# Current Sakura vs Itachi



## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Location: Nuked Konaha 
Distance: 25m
Knowledge: Full
Mindset: IC; for the kill

Restrictions: Izanagi; Izanami

Specifics: Sakura starts with her Byakugō activated. Feel free to guesstimate as to what % of Katsuyu she can reasonably summon. 

*Scenario 1*--"Sick" Itachi

*Scenario 2*--"Healthy" Itachi w/ Edo feats


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## Cognitios (Jul 12, 2014)

Come on  now
Why do you hate Itachi so much to make him rape such a sweet innocent girl so hard?
Itachi stomps all scenarios


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi will kill Sakura without difficulty. Healthy or not healthy, he is so strong, he let himself be killed by Sasuke. Almost everyone fears him. Just an eye will kill sakura.


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## Bonly (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi would win. Itachi pretty much outclasses her in almost everything bar stamina,strength, and medical ninjutsu(since he doesn't do that). Genjutsu, clones, crow uses, his speed in general, casting speed, ect, is all to much for Sakura.


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## Jagger (Jul 12, 2014)

The only aspect which I believe Sakura surpasses Itachi is in chakra-enhanced strength and chakra reserves. 

Beyond that, Itachi dominates.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 12, 2014)

At this distance Sakura cannot react to an Amaterasu variant, her speed has certainly increased to the level of Current Naruto + Sasuke failing to shunshin fast enough to stop her initial blitz against Judara, and she actually was able to swing a punch after being impaled before Naruto + Sauce could intervene, but her speed is still largely a mystery. 

We'll get more feats from her, but the shunshin above the Juubi splits for the drop punch was enough to suggest her speed increased since beating Sasori. 

Increase the distance to 100m and I'd give it to Sakura via 5% Katsuya in the first scenario, in the second scenario I see Itachi winning more times than not simply because of his increased speed and stamina.


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## Ruse (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi blitzes GG  

Seriously though Sakura is outclassed in so many ways in comparison to Itachi its not even funny.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi's portrayal in the manga is painfully obvious. We know he is a Sannin-level.
and he is going to lose more times than not against Jiraiya, and gets fodderstomped by Oro with ET. However, he wins more
times than not again Oro without ET. 

Sakura was portrayed to have surpassed the Sannin, and whether or not you think what was stated in the manga
about her being in the general level of KCM Naruto and early EMS Sasuke, it means there is no way in hell itachi is beating her effortlessly. 

Especially if we take in consideration that her Seal should also help her against Itachi's genjutsu as Tsunade healed
the effect that happened to Kakashi with basic medical ninjutsu. 

Also, Sakura was hyped to have whole tons of chakra. While sick itachi, as in part 2, can't do much in a battle, and barely handled hebi Sasuke. If he used his Susanoo, he won't last 2 minutes, and will collapse. As for healthy itachi, as the one in part 1, he can't use much of jutsus as well, when he ran away from Jiraiya he told Kisame that he needs to rest even though he barely used 2 MS Jutsus.


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## Krippy (Jul 12, 2014)

No reasonable poster would side with Sakura beating any (Part 2) version of Itachi. He outclasses her in every area that matters.


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Itachi would win. Itachi pretty much outclasses her in almost everything bar stamina,strength, and medical ninjutsu(since he doesn't do that). Genjutsu, clones, crow uses, his speed in general, casting speed, ect, is all to much for Sakura.



Not seeing how genjutsu is a factor when Sakura is aware to avoid eye-contact with a proficient genjutsu user. Crows? I also don't see their respective speeds being all that different at this point; most likely any difference is negligible. 

Stamina should figure to play a significant role in this matchup and Sakura's top-tier regeneration and medical abilities should prove difficult for Itach to kill her.


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## Turrin (Jul 12, 2014)

People are underestimating Sakura extensively here. Sakura's Byakugo-Seal must contain an absolutely insane amount of chakra. People need to consider everything she's done with her seal up until this point:

- General Smashy/Smashy
- Kuchiyose Boss Sized Katsuya
- Healing on mass the thousands of alliance members for chapters on end through Katsuya
- Individually healing alliance members herself
- Saving Naruto
- healing Kakashi and Obito
- Using Byakugo Regeneration and more Smashy Smashy
- Comboing with Naruto clone to allow Obito the chakra to teleport to Kaguya's dimension

However even after all of that she still has her Byakugo seal and Obito is saying that she still has enough chakra left to get him the rest of the way to Sasuke and back.

That's fucking insane. 

With that much chakra she probably could have summoned 30% to 40% Katsuya at least, plus use other Jutsu. Sakura is suppose to be as strong as KCM-Naruto and she proves it every chapter, but people are unwilling to acknowledge her capabilities. 

With that said Itachi's Amaterasu and Genjutsu are well suited to countering her Medical Ninjutsu and durability. But Itachi is still going to have extremely high difficulty dealing with the amount of Katsuya Sakura can throw at him. Her godly strength and the knowledge she (as well as Katsuya) has amassed on not only him, but fighting Dojutsu in general. It will not be an easy fight for Itachi and despite having the type advantage he still could easily loose.

Don't blame me for Sakura > Itachi; blame Kishi who retecons that shit out of her every other chapter to give her more and more random power boosts.


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

This is a fight, not a medical fit... Sakura dies with her so much chakra unused.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> Not seeing how genjutsu is a factor when Sakura is aware to avoid eye-contact with a proficient genjutsu user. Crows? I also don't see their respective speeds being all that different at this point; most likely any difference is negligible.
> 
> Stamina should figure to play a significant role in this matchup and Sakura's top-tier regeneration and medical abilities should prove difficult for Itach to kill her.



She is not even that slow as people think she is. 
*gaara who's sand attacks have been mistaken for shukaku's*

and I don't even remember itachi's insane speed feats that people think he has.


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> She is not even that slow as people think she is.
> *gaara who's sand attacks have been mistaken for shukaku's*
> 
> *and I don't even remember itachi's insane speed feats that people think he has. *



Tbh neither do I but the most recent DB (which some treat as gospel) says he's a 5 while Sakura is a 3.5 so I assume any difference there might have been is negligible at this point since Sakura has obviously gotten faster. I wouldn't be surprised tho if Sakura has surpassed Itachi in that department.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

That DB was like 6 years ago, and as you mentioned Sakura is obviously faster now. 
some people act as if Sakura and Tsunade are as fast as snails and can't hit anyone no matter who he is.


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi's infinite loop is enough.

Itachis needs to disable Sakura first. While needs to overwhelm Itachi with speed and strength. Is Itachi allowed to go inside his Susanoo? If he can, then Sakura needs to breaks first the defense of the Susanoo. If she cant, she better run or Amaterasu will burn her in the process.


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## Bonly (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> Not seeing how genjutsu is a factor when Sakura is aware to avoid eye-contact with a proficient genjutsu user.



Just because she knows to avoid eye contact doesn't mean she will be able to do it. A battle caan play out in many ways and Itachi can use genjutsu through more then just his own eyes, she'll have to constantly keep on her toes.




> Crows?



They are birds.



> I also don't see their respective speeds being all that different at this point; most likely any difference is negligible.



Lol



> Stamina should figure to play a significant role in this matchup and Sakura's top-tier regeneration and medical abilities should prove difficult for Itach to kill her.



Itachi's Ama pretty much screws that over. Once hit she'll have the flames constantly on her and they will spread until it covers her entire body so in others words it means with her effectiveness when it comes to fighting. Even with Regen all he has to do is keep away for a certain amount of time. Itachi's Totsuka no Tsurugi also ignores that factor as he won't have to kill her and he can just seal her.


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 12, 2014)

Ok as much as I dislike Itachi he wins without much trouble.
You people are saying Sakura is some speedster. She is still slow. Anyone could shu shin closer to Madara and swing their arm. She is still slow. Susanoo beats her no diff or Ama


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> Location: Nuked Konaha
> Distance: 25m
> Knowledge: Full
> Mindset: IC; for the kill
> ...


So...we have to humor U?

Itachi punks 5% katsuyu while forcing Sakura to watch.
then he gouges out her eyes while lynching her in an MS illusion before amputating both her legs at the knees IRL, incinerating the forelegs w/ amaterasu...

_...then Itachi walks away_


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Ok as much as I dislike Itachi he wins without much trouble.
> You people are saying Sakura is some speedster. She is still slow. Anyone could shu shin closer to Madara and swing their arm. She is still slow. Susanoo beats her no diff or Ama



So what are itachi's speed feats exactly?


> Itachi punks 5% katsuyu while forcing Sakura to watch.



So, what he can do against Katsuyu?


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

Yeah, No wonder why, Zetsu and Kaguya says Itachi in Invincible with his Susanoo and Yata mirror plus Amaterasu....


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## Cognitios (Jul 12, 2014)

> So what are itachi's speed feats exactly?


Your joking right?


> So, what he can do against Katsuyu?


Totsuka, Amaterasu take your pick.


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## Turrin (Jul 12, 2014)

Do people think Itachi can low diff a 30%-40% Katsuya? Or do they think Sakura can't summon that large of a Katsuya?


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Just because she knows to avoid eye contact doesn't mean she will be able to do it. A battle caan play out in many ways and Itachi can use genjutsu through more then just his own eyes, she'll have to constantly keep on her toes.


I agree; however I trust a shinobi as adept as Sakura at this point to be able to ultimately avoid eye-contact. This is really no different then saying Itachi will have to be on his toes as well given what Sakura can bring to the table. 

And no offense but finger genjutsu isn't doing shit here.



> They are birds.


And worthless here.



> Itachi's Ama pretty much screws that over. Once hit she'll have the flames constantly on her and they will spread until it covers her entire body so in others words it means with her effectiveness when it comes to fighting. Even with Regen all he has to do is keep away for a certain amount of time. Itachi's Totsuka no Tsurugi also ignores that factor as he won't have to kill her and he can just seal her.



Katsuyu should be able to take care of the black flames. I also wonder given the Byakugō regenerative abilities if it might be able to cancel the black flames as well  probably not but I'm just thinking aloud here.



Kazekage94 said:


> Ok as much as I dislike Itachi he wins without much trouble.
> You people are saying Sakura is some speedster. She is still slow. Anyone could shu shin closer to Madara and swing their arm. She is still slow. Susanoo beats her no diff or Ama


She's shown some nice speed feats, such as the one Hussain provided. I don't see anything to suggest Itachi has any kind of speed edge?


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

> =Cognitios;51199927]Your joking right?


Not at all. 
posting itachi's speed feats would be appreciated... 


> Totsuka, Amaterasu take your pick.



Amaterasu is useless she can divide herself.  
look at what happened when the Juubi used that.

Totsuka against thousands pieces? 
Who said Itachi can keep the Susanoo up all that time? 
He couldn't even keep it up for 2 minutes against hebi Sasuke.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 12, 2014)

Do people think Itachi cant uncontestably kill sakura at any given moment whether a boss summon is present or not, or do they think he'd choose not to?


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## Turrin (Jul 12, 2014)

@Hussain and Format

Don't drop down to troll level. You and I both know that Itachi is faster than Sakura. So there is no need to go about arguing Sakura's victory by calling that into question. However what Itachi is slower than is Sakura + tens of thousands of mini-Katsuya she can pull out her ass now


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> So what are itachi's speed feats exactly?
> 
> 
> So, what he can do against Katsuyu?



Speed feats I don't really know. But he has a 5 in speed


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## Turrin (Jul 12, 2014)

walpurgis Burgoo said:


> Do people think Itachi cant uncontestably kill sakura at any given moment whether a boss summon is present or not, or do they think he'd choose not to?


I think at close range Itachi gets raped by the actual act of summoning such a large Katsuya on-top of him. At long-range yes he's not getting through an army of Katsuya to kill a Byakugan-Regen Sakura who has a great deal of knowledge on him easily.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Turrin said:


> @Hussain and Format
> 
> Don't drop down to troll level. You and I both know that Itachi is faster than Sakura. So there is no need to go about arguing Sakura's victory by calling that into question. However what Itachi is slower than is Sakura + tens of thousands of mini-Katsuya she can pull out her ass now



Regardless if he was faster or not, is this different in speed won't allow her to land a hit on him?
I wonder why do they even bother debating itachi Vs Tobirama, Minato, A...etc
when the different in speed between them and him, is FAR greater than any speed difference between itachi and Sakura... 

So why does that work for itachi and not her? 



Kazekage94 said:


> Speed feats I don't really know. But he has a 5 in speed



but itachi's fans specifically as well ignore those score like when Oro has a 5 in genjutsu, or Hiruzen...etc
all characters get defeated by his finger genjutsu, no?


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## Bonly (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> I agree; however I trust a shinobi as adept as Sakura at this point to be able to ultimately avoid eye-contact. This is really no different then saying Itachi will have to be on his toes as well given what Sakura can bring to the table.



I would expect Killer B who has gone up against a Sharingan user and is about twice as old as Naruto(prolly old) to be more careful 



> And no offense but finger genjutsu isn't doing shit here.



If she gets caught in it then she gives Itachi an chance to take advantage for a few seconds which can end her depending on what he can do.




> And worthless here.



No they aren't.




> Katsuyu should be able to take care of the black flames. I also wonder given the Byakugō regenerative abilities if it might be able to cancel the black flames as well  probably not but I'm just thinking aloud here.



Katsuyu can't do anything about the flames if they get on Sakura.




> She's shown some nice speed feats, such as the one Hussain provided. I don't see anything to suggest Itachi has any kind of speed edge?



No she hasn't shown some nice speed feats. She has shown one not more(lets not exaggerate) and even then it was a simply Shunshin against an object that was moving in a straight line that was constantly slowing down by hitting other Juubi fodder. She is not as fast or faster then Itachi


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Turrin said:


> @Hussain and Format
> 
> Don't drop down to troll level. You and I both know that Itachi is faster than Sakura. So there is no need to go about arguing Sakura's victory by calling that into question. However what Itachi is slower than is Sakura + tens of thousands of mini-Katsuya she can pull out her ass now


My point is any speed differential between the two should be mostly a non-factor. Again, any gap there might have been should easily be narrowed to the thinnest of margins by this point.


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## Ruse (Jul 12, 2014)

> Distance: 25m



This makes it even easier for Itachi Amatarasu will end this pretty quickly in both scenarios, people bringing up Sakura's stamina like she'd last long enough for that to be a deciding factor


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Is there a reason to why Sakura can't do this to the flame?
[3]

and no, they don't appear in the person directly. 



> This makes it even easier for Itachi Amatarasu will end this pretty quickly in both scenarios, people bringing up Sakura's stamina like she'd last long enough for that to be a deciding factor



Just like how people bring Amatersu as if it matters in ANY fight at all?


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 12, 2014)

Amaterasu is way too fast for Sakura to punch it away like that, and even if she was fast enough to do so, it would stick to her arms and fists and burn her to death regardless.​​


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Amaterasu is way too fast for Sakura to punch it away like that, and even if she was fast enough to do so, it would stick to her arms and fists and burn her to death regardless.​​



Amatersu is only for short range attack, so at most Sakura only needs to stay away more than 5-10m at most.

Also, how do you know that the Amaterasu sticks to someone? 
We have never seen such thing, actually we have seen the exact opposite.


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> I would expect Killer B who has gone up against a Sharingan user and is about twice as old as Naruto(prolly old) to be more careful


Perhaps he is not familiar with Itachi's reputation? I can't explain Bee's stupidity in this instance, I only know that Sakura is plainly aware not to make that mistake [1].



> If she gets caught in it then she gives Itachi an chance to take advantage for a few seconds which can end her depending on what he can do.


I'd honestly be surprised if it even took her that long to escape it, or if it worked at all. 



> No they aren't.


Could you provide a practical scenario in which they might be even remotely a difference maker?



> Katsuyu can't do anything about the flames if they get on Sakura.


They can slow the spreading process which should give her enough time to so use some scroll or probably more likely a healing technique to remove them. 



> No she hasn't shown some nice speed feats. She has shown one not more(lets not exaggerate) and even then it was a simply Shunshin against an object that was moving in a straight line that was constantly slowing down by hitting other Juubi fodder. Not all that impressive when compared to Itachi


What does Itachi have that dwarfs what Sakura's shown?


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi can fight melle or long range, Sakura's weakness was she can only fight melee. Honestly, have we seen Katsuyu fight? Katsuyu was a healer, If Sakura can destroy Susanoo or she had immunity with Ama, she wins, but the odds are against her. Her speen will just delay her death. When she is far, Susanoo and Ama will do, when she is near Itachi, Infinite loop genjutsu will, Kabuto Suffered to that Infinite loop despite being blind, Sakura will be dead as a racoon.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Is there a reason to why Sakura can't do this to the flame?
> [1]
> 
> and no, they don't appear in the person directly.
> ...



So why don't U just go write your own Sakura fanfic?(I mean obviously U can draw more attention to her character w/ this NBD method where U pretend that calling it a mismatch between her & Itachi is an absurdity)

But even w/ the much less attention to your fan-fic, wouldn't it be more gratifying still?

and again, U _were expecting_ lots of disagreement, no?


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> You can't be serious?



So does that mean there is no reason to why she can't?  



walpurgis Burgoo said:


> So why don't U just go write your own Sakura fanfic?(I mean obviously U can draw more attention to her character w/ this NBD method where U pretend that a mismatch between her Itachi is an absurdity)
> 
> But even w/ the much less attention to your fan-fic, wouldn't it be more gratifying still?
> 
> and again, U _were expecting_ lots of disagreement, no?



I honestly see nothing worth in your post. 
do you have a reason to why she can't or not?
Simple as that...


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> I honestly see nothing worth in your post.
> do you have a reason to why she can't or not?
> Simple as that...



No, im just asking U what what worth is there for U ITT

  well sh!#-! you're not even the op...


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 12, 2014)

I don't care for the match-up itself, as I believe the outcome is obvious, but there is no way Sakura is punching _Amaterasu_. The very notion of that is ridiculous; these are flames that _eat_ other flames. Tsunade being able to punch away Madara's katons with only burns to suffer for it does not mean Sakura can simply deflect a vastly superior fire technique with different properties. This shouldn't even need to be discussed.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Amatersu is only for short range attack, so at most Sakura only needs to stay away more than 5-10m at most.
> 
> Also, how do you know that the Amaterasu sticks to someone?
> We have never seen such thing, actually we have seen the exact opposite.



That would imply Itachi stays out of her range. He can easily shunshin the gap between them and light her ablaze, it would be an easy task for him.

Amaterasu isn't a condensed flame shot in a solid-like projectile form, it's a big mass of flames that spread over an area, so I don't think it can be repelled like that.​​


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I don't care for the match-up itself, as I believe the outcome is obvious, but there is no way Sakura is punching _Amaterasu_. The very notion of that is ridiculous; these are flames that _eat_ other flames. Tsunade being able to punch away Madara's katons with only burns to suffer for it does not mean Sakura can simply deflect a vastly superior fire technique with different properties. This shouldn't even need to be discussed.



Sakura is superior to Tsunade as well. 
eating other flame is irrelevant as well, as we know with chakra the character can repel other things away from his/her body...


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

@walpurgis Burgoo

How about providing an irrefutable case in Itachi's favor (which no one has been able to do thus far) and we go from there? Otherwise, you're trolling at this point.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Sakura is superior to Tsunade as well.
> eating other flame is irrelevant as well, as we know with chakra the character can repel other things away from his/her body...



well this would make a good chapter to start with!! 

Sakura is awesome btw


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## Kyu (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi murders Sakura. He has the right tools to burn her alive & is a vastly superior shinobi.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Sakura is superior to Tsunade as well.



I don't recall Sakura being physically superior to Tsunade; only that her strength was compared to Tsunade by Hashirama. Even if she were stronger, more durable and better at regeneration, I severely doubt that the gap is wide enough for her to be able to punch away Amaterasu when her mentor was burned from deflecting normal katons. 

They don't even work the same way. The ryūsenka Madara fired off were done with shape manipulation to give them different properties; as seen when they punched through concrete walls in Sasuke's fight vs. Itachi. It clearly has some sort of solid form. Amaterasu doesn't, and it's just an all consuming fire. If Sakura touched it, she would lose her hand and spend the rest of the fight lamenting at how stupid she is.


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## LostSelf (Jul 12, 2014)

Ama
Terasu
G
G.

Sakura cannot counter that.


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## Ghost (Jul 12, 2014)

This thread gave me cancer.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> That would imply Itachi stays out of her range. He can easily shunshin the gap between them and light her ablaze, it would be an easy task for him.
> 
> Amaterasu isn't a condensed flame shot in a solid-like projectile form, it's a big mass of flames that spread over an area, so I don't think it can be repelled like that.​​



That will take us to itachi's speed feats again, can you provide some? 
Because Sakura traveled a long distance in one jump as well. And her portrayal
to be on par with KCM Naruto and early EMS Sasuke is also better than itachi's. 

- Nagato repealed it with ST. Obito with his GD. Gaara with his Sand, the Juubi with the division
Minato with the teleportation, A with speed...etc

there are way too many things to do to get rid of the Amatersu, and it's not like itachi can do that forever, or as if he is going to use it right away. 
+
Don't forget that Katsuyu is here as well, and itachi must do something against that...


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Sakura is superior to Tsunade as well.


​​


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Ama
> Terasu
> G
> G.
> ...



What makes you think Sakura doesn't have a scroll or medical ninjutsu that can relieve the black flames? In fact, I would imagine after Jiraiya sealed them back in Part I he would have made it an objective of having them analyzed and some kind of "cure" established.


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## Bonly (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> Perhaps he is not familiar with Itachi's reputation? I can't explain Bee's stupidity in this instance, I only know that Sakura is plainly aware not to make that mistake [1].



And Killer B went against an Uchiha and went up against a second one knowing about their genjutsu and still ended up getting caught. Just because one knows about genjutsu and how to avoid it doesn't mean they won't get caught and Sakura isn't good enough for me to warrant her not getting caught at some point in time even if she does have knowledge.  



> I'd honestly be surprised if it even took her that long to escape it, or if it worked at all.



Nothing suggest it wouldn't work




> Could you provide a practical scenario in which they might be even remotely a difference maker?



A crow can be used to make crow clones which cost less chakra then a shadow clone thus saving Itachi some chakra and allowing him feint Sakura. A crow of his has the Sharingan which has canonly put someone under a genjutsu which could be done to Sakura thus giving Itachi a good clean shot while she's under it for a few seconds.




> They can slow the spreading process which should give her enough time to so use some scroll or probably more likely a healing technique to remove them.



How are they slowing the processing of it? She doesn't have a scroll or anything to get it off nor does any healing jutsu we've seen or been hinted showed that it could get the flames off her body




> What does Itachi have that dwarfs what Sakura's shown?



If you read the manga you'll see.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I don't recall Sakura being physically superior to Tsunade; only that her strength was compared to Tsunade by Hashirama. Even if she were stronger, more durable and better at regeneration, I severely doubt that the gap is wide enough for her to be able to punch away Amaterasu when her mentor was burned from deflecting normal katons.
> 
> They don't even work the same way. The ryūsenka Madara fired off were done with shape manipulation to give them different properties; as seen when they punched through concrete walls in Sasuke's fight vs. Itachi. It clearly has some sort of solid form. Amaterasu doesn't, and it's just an all consuming fire. If Sakura touched it, she would lose her hand and spend the rest of the fight lamenting at how stupid she is.



She is physically stronger I.E her feats is much better than anything Tsunade has ever shown.
and that helps her to have better strength with Taijutsu... 

- Tsunade was out of chakra at that point, and he only had a very small part of her chakra left, and even with that, she still recovered. 

- the manipulation make the Amatersu stronger, not the other way around, and that's why C said
Sasuke is better than itachi when he saw the flame.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> What makes you think Sakura doesn't have a scroll or medical ninjutsu that can relieve the black flames? In fact, I would imagine after Jiraiya sealed them back in Part I he would have made it an objective of having them analyzed and some kind of "cure" established.



The Battledome doesn't operate like that. If she hasn't shown specific equipment like that, she doesn't have it. Besides, how would she have the time to perform hand seals and a jutsu when she's engulfed in flames?


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> @walpurgis Burgoo
> 
> How about providing an irrefutable case in Itachi's favor (which no one has been able to do thus far) and we go from there? Otherwise, you're trolling at this point.



I really cant   ...''wishing doesn't work'' and sakuras sage mode + bunshinjutsu combo is just too hax. wait, let me go figure out specifically which combination of feats & jutsu of sakuras i'll concede to; brb...

* wonders if tenten has amaterasu-countering scrolls too, or is that only 4 the main heroine*


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> ​​



ok? 
She is still order than her and her master.


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## Cord (Jul 12, 2014)

Sakura is not going to accomplish anything by simply keeping her distance from Itachi, so she eventually has to force a close quarters combat since that's her only means to effectively inflict damage on her opponent. Once that happens, the advantage shifts to the obviously superior fighter. And let's be honest here: She gets fried with Amaterasu. She can't repel nor extinguish it and Katsuyu's assistance could only do much before she eventually gets devoured by the flames in her entirety.


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

Things we should consider in Sakura's advantage whoch will become useless to Itachi, her chakra and her speed and her stength is her main arsenal. Speed is useless since Itachi can use Susanoo. What would Sakura do with her speed, run outside Susanoo? Lol. Her too much chakra, is useless when she falls to Itachis Genjutsu, Kabuto fall to that, why she cant, she is a melee. Her strength, is also useless, can she break the Susanoo? No.  In melee or longrange combat she FAILS. Her strength, chakra and speed does not work. And one more thing. Figthing habit, Sakura always jumps to something without knowing what could happen. Plus the Mind factor, Sakura is a fodder to Itachi in terms of IQ.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

^
She does not have to go near him with Katsuyu. Why no one factor her summon as her power? 
slugs attacking from every where is not a sweat thing to deal with. 
especially with acid that can kill even Oro. @>@


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## LostSelf (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> What makes you think Sakura doesn't have a scroll or medical ninjutsu that can relieve the black flames? In fact, I would imagine after Jiraiya sealed them back in Part I he would have made it an objective of having them analyzed and some kind of "cure" established.



This is speculation. I doubt she carries a scroll, i even doubt she knows the Jutsu Jiraiya used.

And in case that happens, nothing stops Itachi from crushing her with Susano'o or stealing the scroll from her while she tries to seal it away, suffering from huge pain.


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## Kyu (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> ok?
> She is still order than her and her master.



Tsunade rejuvenated Shikamaru in an instant when a Naruto-powered Sakura wasn't able to.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> She is physically stronger I.E her feats is much better than anything Tsunade has ever shown.
> and that helps her to have better strength with Taijutsu...



Please show me a direct comparison in strength between full strength Sakura and full strength Tsunade. The only reason Sakura's strength looks so impressive compared to Tsunade's is because she's had the benefit of getting to show off her area of effect from that one time she destroyed the ground, whereas the last time Tsunade got to shine was when she was focused on attacking a single opponent. 



> - Tsunade was out of chakra at that point, and he only had a very small part of her chakra left, and even with that, she still recovered.



I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Tsunade could still regenerate; how much chakra she had left is irrelevant because she still had enough to do it. The important thing here is that she punched fire and, as might be expected when someone attempts to touch hot things, she got burned. 

Sakura has a similar level of regeneration. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she heals better than Tsunade because she has more chakra, or something. I think it'd be fair to assume that a fresh Sakura could successfully punch away those fireballs. However, Amaterasu is on a whole different scale. As I said, it eats fire and the whole point of it is to 'consume', not just 'punch' like Madara's katon seemed to do. Because of the way the jutsu works and the sheer intensity of it, if Sakura were to attempt to punch it, she would be burned.

Subsequently, she would die and, as a result, lose the match. I honestly can't make this dissection any clearer. 



> - the manipulation make the Amatersu stronger, not the other way around, and that's why C said
> Sasuke is better than itachi when he saw the flame.



I'm not saying that the manipulation makes the flames weaker. I'm saying that the basic principle of the jutsu is different and the fact that Itachi's aren't moulded into a specific, solid form makes it harder to parry. 



Hussain said:


> ok?
> She is still order than her and her master.



I don't think you're understanding the significance of this particular scene. Sakura was struggling to heal Shikamaru, and Tsunade just popped in and completely restored him with a single touch. It clearly portrays that Tsunade is her superior; I'm not sure how you can even begin to misinterpret this, to be honest.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

Kyu said:


> Tsunade rejuvenated Shikamaru in an instant when a Naruto-powered Sakura wasn't able to.



And how does that mean Tsunade is better than her?
Sakura surpassed Tsunade in the best she has, which is her 100 seal, and has more powerful taijutsu as well, and arguably more chakra.... 

perhaps what Tsunade did is only due to her experience/knowledge. U_U

Atlantic Storm

I might reply latter on. I started to get tier. @>@


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> And how does that mean Tsunade is better than her?
> Sakura surpassed Tsunade in the best she has, which is her 100 seal, and has more powerful taijutsu as well, and arguably more chakra....
> 
> perhaps what Tsunade did is only due to her experience/knowledge. U_U
> ...



That's perfectly okay.  is my face at the moment.


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

For the idea of Hussain:
Mini Katsuyi having acid spray that can kill even Oro.

Can it kill or dissolve Susanoo? No, Yata mirror provies Itachi's susanoo with any elemenal attack.

I would love to see Itachi making hot Sausages from Katsuyu. Sorry Sakura FC. 

Im not an Itachi fan, but the odds were siding Itachi. Sakura's jutsu cannot defeat Itachi.


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> And Killer B went against an Uchiha and went up against a second one knowing about their genjutsu and still ended up getting caught. Just because one knows about genjutsu and how to avoid it doesn't mean they won't get caught and Sakura isn't good enough for me to warrant her not getting caught at some point in time even if she does have knowledge.


Unfortunately Bee isn't Sakura. You're trying to tell me that Sakura--who is blatantly aware to avoid eye-contact--is going to make the same mistake because Bee did? Have you thought maybe Bee isn't the sharpest tool in the shed? I mean, why did he make eye-contact with Sasuke (an MS user) in their fight in the first case? Apparently the Sharinga's reputation for strengthened genjutsu's doesn't sink in well with him. Regardless, Sakura isn't Bee so I don't see the point here.



> Nothing suggest it wouldn't work


Besides the fact that it's only feat IIRC is being used on early Part II Naruto and hasn't been seen since, which should be an indicator of Itachi's opinion of it's worth against higher-level opponents. 



> A crow can be used to make crow clones *which cost less chakra then a shadow clone* thus saving Itachi some chakra


I don't recall this being canonically asserted anywhere. Perhaps I'm forgetting. Link?



> A crow of his has the Sharingan which has canonly put someone under a genjutsu which could be done to Sakura thus giving Itachi a good clean shot while she's under it for a few seconds.


Assuming Itachi or his clone is able to establish eye-contact, which IMO isn't likely.



> How are they slowing the processing of it? She doesn't have a scroll or anything to get it off nor does any healing jutsu we've seen or been hinted showed that it could get the flames off her body





Atlantic Storm said:


> The Battledome doesn't operate like that. If she hasn't shown specific equipment like that, she doesn't have it.


What farfetched about assuming Sakura--a top-tier medical ninja and having operated under Tsunad's tutelage--has a scroll that can seal the flames; particulary when individuals like Jiraiya carry them around for no apparent reason? I would frankly be surprised if that weren't the case and at the very least appears to me a reasonable assumption. 



> Besides, how would she have the time to perform hand seals and a jutsu when she's engulfed in flames?


It takes the black flames time to spread. Honestly I don't see how time is a question here at all given how quick hand seals are applied in the NV in general (at this point ignored all-together in the manga), especially given the added time she'll receive from her Byakugō healing the damage that comes along the way.



Bonly said:


> If you read the manga you'll see.


I have, and I don't see it.


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Why exactly is Katsuyu being written off her when Sakura at the very least should be able to summon 10%? Possibly more much more. Instead, all I'm reading is Itachi using taxing MS techniques while apparently Sakura is standing around or not even trying to put up a fight lol?



LostSelf said:


> This is speculation. I doubt she carries a scroll, i even doubt she knows the Jutsu Jiraiya used.


This is a bit ridiculous IMO, when so many of the arguments asserted here in the BD are largely founded on speculation. Quite frankly, Sakura having a scroll that could seal the black flames doesn't even register. 



> And in case that happens, nothing stops Itachi from crushing her with Susano'o or stealing the scroll from her while she tries to seal it away, suffering from huge pain.


Or she can keep her distance...


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## Bonly (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> Unfortunately Bee isn't Sakura. You're trying to tell me that Sakura--who is blatantly aware to avoid eye-contact--is going to make the same mistake because Bee did? Have you thought maybe Bee isn't the sharpest tool in the shed? I mean, why did he make eye-contact with Sasuke (an MS user) in their fight in the first case? Apparently the Sharinga's reputation for strengthened genjutsu's doesn't sink in well with him. Regardless, Sakura isn't Bee so I don't see the point here.



You don't see the point? Then pay attention. 

"Just because she knows to avoid eye contact doesn't mean she will be able to do it"

That's the point. It seemed like you're suggesting that just because she has that knowledge to not look into his eyes that means she won't do it period. That is not the case and me using B was just to show that someone who knows not to look an Uchiha eyes after dealing with it once, was still caught meaning that knowing not to look doesn't mean one with be able to avoid such action.




> Besides the fact that it's only feat IIRC is being used on early Part II Naruto and hasn't been seen since, which should be an indicator of Itachi's opinion of it's worth against higher-level opponents.



Doesn't matter. Just because he used it once doesn't mean it won't magically work. If he goes to do finger genjutsu and she looks at it then she'll be caught in it, plain and simple. Now if you think she'll get out fast that's one thing but her getting out fast doesn't mean the genjutsu didn't work. Unless you can prove that Sakura is magically immune to genjutsu, finger genjutsu will work if she looks at it.




> I don't recall this being canonically asserted anywhere. Perhaps I'm forgetting. Link?




*Spoiler*: _Databook entry_ 











> Assuming Itachi or his clone is able to establish eye-contact, which IMO isn't likely.



Then we'll agree to disagree.




> What farfetched about assuming Sakura--a top-tier medical ninja and having operated under Tsunad's tutelage--has a scroll that can seal the flames; particulary when individuals like Jiraiya carry them around for no apparent reason? I would frankly be surprised if that weren't the case and at the very least appears to me a reasonable assumption.



Nothing suggest she does carry around a fire sealing scroll. Nothing in the least bit and being a medical ninja doesn't grant her the benefit of the doubt that they do randomly carry fire sealing scrolls. No medical ninja has from what I recall though her having a scroll like that might have been a tad bit useful when Sasori was using his flamethrowers during their fight and she didn't bring one out. 



> I have, and I don't see it.



Then you're own you're own more or less


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

People here does not know how to listen. Itachi does not need an eye contact to caught Sakura in a genjutsu. Didn't Kabuto blided himself to avoid that, but was also caught? Chill...


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> And how does that mean Tsunade is better than her?
> Sakura surpassed Tsunade in the best she has, which is her 100 seal, and has more powerful taijutsu as well, and arguably more chakra....
> 
> perhaps what Tsunade did is only due to her experience/knowledge. U_U
> ...



*Link Removed*​​


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## Cord (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> What farfetched about assuming Sakura--a top-tier medical ninja and having operated under Tsunad's tutelage--has a scroll that can seal the flames; particulary when individuals like Jiraiya carry them around for no apparent reason? I would frankly be surprised if that weren't the case and at the very least appears to me a reasonable assumption.



Apart from the Fire Sealing Method, Jiraiya can also utilize the seal that reversed Orochimaru's Gogyō Fūin and he was also the one who developed the chakra-supressing seal to contain Kurama (which he gave to Kakashi). These are Jiraiya's Fūinjutsu that were stated and shown to be used by exclusively by him unless it was stated or shown otherwise akin to Kakashi's case. On what grounds are we assuming that Tsunade has learned and can use the exact same Fūinjutsu that Jiraiya has, just because? And that she *also* has passed it down to her subordinate? 



> It takes the black flames time to spread. Honestly I don't see how time is a question here at all given how quick hand seals are applied in the NV in general (at this point ignored all-together in the manga), especially given the added time she'll receive from her Byakugō healing the damage that comes along the way.



It actually depends on the quantity of the flames that are used. If Itachi uses the same amount that smothered Sasuke's Gokyaku, then Sakura, who's vastly more minute in size is going to be immediately engulfed. Also consider how a measly amount completely destroyed Sasuke's Juin wing in no time, it shouldn't be questionable how fast can it incinerate a less durable target. While Byakygo can slightly delay the damage, she will still get overwhelmed. She also wouldn't be able to use "quick" hand seals because 1.) She wouldn't have time 2.) She doesn't have a scroll to summon. Even if she does have one, Itachi can just shoot another ball of Amaterasu against her.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi puts Sakura in Genjutsu and cuts her head off.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 12, 2014)

Sakura doesn't fall under the same parallel for Team 7 and Sannin, unless one thinks Tsunade is far weaker than Jiraiya/Orochimaru; that isn't the case.

In her case, she was always far behind Naruto and Sasuke, blindly thinking she's able to somehow catch up to them. Itachi is one of the manga's geniuses and will destroy a weak-willed person like Sakura. Her carelessness guarantees that she'll be caught in genjutsu and/or incinerated by Amaterasu, which happens to counter Byakugou quite well.


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## LostSelf (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> This is a bit ridiculous IMO, when so many of the arguments asserted here in the BD are largely founded on speculation. Quite frankly, Sakura having a scroll that could seal the black flames doesn't even register.



Come on mang. Are we going to give the character we want to win the right tools to do it just because we, with no proof at all, think they should have?

It doesn't work that way. The majority of the arguments here asserted as speculation have feats behind, or hype, etc. Not all of them comes with nothing to back this up, and when someone brings something as crazy as that, just like Yata Mirror working as a surfboard to avoid Yomi Numa or Itachi having copied Raiton somewhere in his life, they are heavily countered with the classic "Nothing to back that up" argument.

Sakura having a scroll to seal Amaterasu when nothing points that she should is as bad as Itachi having copied Raiton someday in his life and will use a raiton jutsu to nulify Yomi Numa.

Those are heavy assumptions that we should not even bother discussing, because i bet you cannot prove me wrong if i tell you she doesn't have one.


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> You don't see the point? Then pay attention.
> 
> "Just because she knows to avoid eye contact doesn't mean she will be able to do it"
> 
> That's the point. It seemed like you're suggesting that just because she has that knowledge to not look into his eyes that means she won't do it period. That is not the case and me using B was just to show that someone who knows not to look an Uchiha eyes after dealing with it once, was still caught meaning that knowing not to look doesn't mean one with be able to avoid such action.


I understand the point just fine. The problem is that Bee is a pretty poor example when you consider that in his fight against Sasuke he made no attempt to avoid eye-contact--showing that he's either unfamiliar with the Sharingan's reputation or a bit dense. Furthermore, in his mini-clash with Itachi it took literally no trickery or feinting necessary to get him to make eye-contract, which shows that he is either unfamiliar with Itachi's reputation or is, again, a bit dense. I'm inclined to side with the latter. 

Outside of this, do you have anything to suggest that avoiding eye-contact is an unreasonable task? Especially considering that Kakashi felt that was a safe enough precaution for early Part II Sakura (and Naruto) against Itachi's genjutsu back then?

Could she slip and make eye-contract? Sure, but that's like saying Itachi could slip and catch a kunai through the skull. It's all part of the game.   



> Doesn't matter. Just because he used it once doesn't mean it won't magically work. If he goes to do finger genjutsu and she looks at it then she'll be caught in it, plain and simple. Now if you think she'll get out fast that's one thing but her getting out fast doesn't mean the genjutsu didn't work. Unless you can prove that Sakura is magically immune to genjutsu, finger genjutsu will work if she looks at it.


Tbh, I funny this kind of funny when I'm being called out for speculation for assuming Sakura with her medical stature has a scroll that can seal the black flames and yet I'm supposed to believe finger genjutsu will effect Current Sakura for any relevant duration of time, let alone at all.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but finger is for when the opponent is avoiding eye-contact, as it was used on Naruto after he was told to avoid eye-contact, no?

If finger is a viable option could you explain to me why Itachi didn't use it against Sage Kabuto?



> *Spoiler*: _Databook entry_


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## Legendary Itachi (Jul 12, 2014)

WTF is scroll doing? Do ppl REALLY believe Itachi will just stand and see how Sakura opens the scroll she gets from nowhere and forms a seal she magically learns to get rid of Amaterasu? 

Come on, Itachi isn't retarded. Nothing stops him to fire another shot even he suddenly goes stupid.


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## Cord (Jul 12, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Come on mang. Are we going to give the character we want to win the right tools to do it just because we, with no proof at all, think they should have?
> 
> It doesn't work that way. The majority of the arguments here asserted as speculation have feats behind, or hype, etc. one.



I agree, and if we go by the logic in question, then we'd also have to argue that Tsunade or any character with a ridiculously vast amount of chakra can use Taju Kage Bunshins because they have the requirements and presumably skill to do so—but we don't, simply because the manga hasn't established that. We can only argue about abilities that they have shown or at the very least, _implied_ to be a part of their arsenals. Sakura having Jiraiya's Fūka Hōin fits neither.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 12, 2014)

Jiraiya was very knowledgeable in fuuinjutsu, while Sakura hasn't shown anything to suggest she's able to use techniques of that caliber. The guy literally walks around with giant scrolls on his back, considering he travels the world and comes past bizarre things like Amaterasu.

The reason why anyone would make that kind of assumption is beyond me... That idea would be an out-of-character move for her; it's also featless and illogical. On top of that, she wouldn't be able to perform the technique while she's burning to death, even if the sealing method were known.


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

Final judgement, Sakura falls, Katsuyu turned into a Fried slug.


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Cordelia said:


> Apart from the Fire Sealing Method, Jiraiya can also utilize the seal that reversed Orochimaru's Gogyō Fūin and he was also the one who developed the chakra-supressing seal to contain Kurama (which he gave to Kakashi). These are Jiraiya's Fūinjutsu that were stated and shown to be used by exclusively by him unless it was stated or shown otherwise akin to Kakashi's case. On what grounds are we assuming that Tsunade has learned and can use the exact same Fūinjutsu that Jiraiya has, just because? And that she *also* has passed it down to her subordinate?


If you can show me where it's asserted that the scroll that Jiraiya used to seal the black flames is exclusive to himself I would have no choice but to concede the point.

Otherwise, why would we assume that Jiraiya--acting as an agent of Konaha--would not have the black flames as used by a relevant threat to Konaha analyzed and furthermore suggest that at the very least the nation's medical ninja keep them on hand?



> It actually depends on the quantity of the flames that are used. If Itachi uses the same amount that smothered Sasuke's Gokyaku, then Sakura, who's vastly more minute in size is going to be immediately engulfed. Also consider how a measly amount completely destroyed Sasuke's Juin wing in no time, it shouldn't be questionable how fast can it incinerate a less durable target. While Byakygo can slightly delay the damage, she will still get overwhelmed. She also wouldn't be able to use "quick" hand seals because 1.) She wouldn't have time 2.) She doesn't have a scroll to summon. Even if she does have one, Itachi can just shoot another ball of Amaterasu against her.


In the case of Sasuke's Gokayu I assume that the black flames reached the mass that it did because of the spreading that occurs in the intermediate and fuel that Sasuke's flames provided. You can see when Itachi uses Ama here that it is initially not nearly as big. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge how quickly the black flames spread based on the sequence of panels given that for obvious reasons intermediate steps aren't shown; i.e., one moment the flames make contact, the next they've spread without showing how much time has elapsed in between.



LostSelf said:


> Come on mang. Are we going to give the character we want to win the right tools to do it just because we, with no proof at all, think they should have?
> 
> It doesn't work that way. The majority of the arguments here asserted as speculation have feats behind, or hype, etc. Not all of them comes with nothing to back this up, and when someone brings something as crazy as that, just like Yata Mirror working as a surfboard to avoid Yomi Numa or Itachi having copied Raiton somewhere in his life, they are heavily countered with the classic "Nothing to back that up" argument.
> 
> ...


We extrapolate these kinds of things all the time in debates based on said feats, hype, etc. as I'm sure you're aware of. Nothing about doing the same to suggest that Sakura would have a scroll on her that could seal the black flames seems ridiculous to me. Unless I'm mistaken, reputation falls under the category of hype and Sakura with her stature would not lead to the unbelievable proposition that she would carry such a tool when it would be useful against (at the time) an enemy of Konaha. 

I don't even consider this a leap of faith and honestly I could point out potentially worse examples that are made on an almost daily basis if you want.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

> =Atlantic Storm;51200276]Please show me a direct comparison in strength between full strength Sakura and full strength Tsunade. The only reason Sakura's strength looks so impressive compared to Tsunade's is because she's had the benefit of getting to show off her area of effect from that one time she destroyed the ground, whereas the last time Tsunade got to shine was when she was focused on attacking a single opponent.



The comparison we have for them is that one time when Sakura strikes those mini Juubis (perhaps the only time Kisi allowed her to fight for 1 minute or so lol), and Tsunade's feats against Kabuto, Madara, Oro, and when she destroyed a part from the Hokage building. None of those feats come close to Sakura's. 


> I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Tsunade could still regenerate; how much chakra she had left is irrelevant because she still had enough to do it. The important thing here is that she punched fire and, as might be expected when someone attempts to touch hot things, she got burned.


and how is burning and then healing is a big deal?
B got burned by the flame, and so did Karin, were the burns effect so bad that they couldn't complete their life? No. The same with Sakura, even if she got burned, she will just heal, and we have already seen how miserably the Amaterasu failed in latterly EVERY SINGLE TIME. I really don't see it being this unstoppable jutsu all of sudden that nothings work against it!

That's how Kishi portrayed this jutsu in the manga, it can't be helped. 


> Sakura has a similar level of regeneration. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she heals better than Tsunade because she has more chakra, or something. I think it'd be fair to assume that a fresh Sakura could successfully punch away those fireballs. However, Amaterasu is on a whole different scale. As I said, it eats fire and the whole point of it is to 'consume', not just 'punch' like Madara's katon seemed to do. Because of the way the jutsu works and the sheer intensity of it, if Sakura were to attempt to punch it, she would be burned.
> 
> Subsequently, she would die and, as a result, lose the match. I honestly can't make this dissection any clearer.


The Amatersu is NOT instant, otherwise A wouldn't have dodge it, nor would Obito have been able to stop it either. 

In addition, I think people give this jutsu way too much credits, even though in the manga it haven't been portrayed that you must have this specific jutsu to be superior to one who has Amatersu. The same case for Jman > Itachi, and SM Naruto > MS Sasuke. 

If kishi thinks otherwise he wouldn't have portrayed Sakura with KCM Naruto, and early EMS Sasuke.
or that's how I see it... 


> I'm not saying that the manipulation makes the flames weaker. I'm saying that the basic principle of the jutsu is different and the fact that Itachi's aren't moulded into a specific, solid form makes it harder to parry.



I honestly don't see how the principle is any different. The only thing different about them is the fact that the Amatersu is on a higher level it term of temperature, even the thing about this jutsu appearing on the target directly was retconned/proven wrong in so many times in the manga. 


> I don't think you're understanding the significance of this particular scene. Sakura was struggling to heal Shikamaru, and Tsunade just popped in and completely restored him with a single touch. It clearly portrays that Tsunade is her superior; I'm not sure how you can even begin to misinterpret this, to be honest.


as I said, that's probably do to Tsunade's experience and knowledge rather than being better. 
since as stated in the manga Sakura is better than her with her best and most advanced healing jutsu....  



Godaime Tsunade said:


> *Link Removed*​​



That's hurt...


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## Bonly (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> I understand the point just fine.



Then don't waste my time.



> Outside of this, do you have anything to suggest that avoiding eye-contact is an unreasonable task? Especially considering that Kakashi felt that was a safe enough precaution for early Part II Sakura (and Naruto) against Itachi's genjutsu back then?



When it comes to Itachi, yeah. Itachi has more then one way to catch her in a genjutsu, he has crows, crow clones, and shadow clones to help him here. I think it's a tad bit unreasonable to assume that Sakura isn't likely to get caught with his varies different methods and varies way he can get into a genjutsu. 



> Could she slip and make eye-contract? Sure, but that's like saying Itachi could slip and catch a kunai through the skull. It's all part of the game.



Whatever helps you get through the night. 




> Tbh, I funny this kind of funny when I'm being called out for speculation for assuming Sakura with her medical stature has a scroll that can seal the black flames and yet I'm supposed to believe finger genjutsu will effect Current Sakura for any relevant duration of time, let alone at all.



Good for you. 



> Also correct me if I'm wrong but finger is for when the opponent is avoiding eye-contact, as it was used on Naruto after he was told to avoid eye-contact, no?



No. Finger is for whenever the hells he wants to use it. 



> If finger is a viable option could you explain to me why Itachi didn't use it against Sage Kabuto?



Did you really just ask this question? 

Go reread that fight and come back after you know why Kabuto thought he wasn't gonna get caught in a genjutsu. When you do such you'll realize why Itachi didn't use his finger genjutsu




> You honestly don't believe as a medical ninja Sakura would have a few of these on hand? Then we'll have to agree to disagree. To me this is a no-brainier. As far as Sasori is concerned I'd have to re-read the fight in context to respond. I'll see if I can get back to this.



Yes I honestly don't believe any medical carries such a thing as nothing has suggested that they do carry these as so far not a single medical ninja(or any person beside Jiraiya really) has been shown carrying this type of sealing scroll.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 12, 2014)

So can ten-ten, w/ all her damn scolls, counter amaterasu or not?

who can & cant?


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Then don't waste my time.


You responded to me questioning whether I understood or not?  I then proceeded to rebuttle said point.



> When it comes to Itachi, yeah. Itachi has more then one way to catch her in a genjutsu, he has crows, crow clones, and shadow clones to help him here. I think it's a tad bit unreasonable to assume that Sakura isn't likely to get caught with his varies different methods and varies way he can get into a genjutsu.


Which requires eye-contact. All the while draining Itachi's chakra with said clones.



> Good for you.


No, actually it's bad for me since I have to respond to these double-standards. 



> No. Finger is for whenever the hells he wants to use it.


Well sure, he can use it whenever the hell he wants but in practice it's for when the opponent is avoiding eye-contact, as demonstrated when he used it on Naruto. Why would he use finger genjutsu when the opponent is staring right at him when Tsukuyomi is an option?



> Did you really just ask this question?
> 
> Go reread that fight and come back after you know why Kabuto thought he wasn't gonna get caught in a genjutsu. When you do such you'll realize why Itachi didn't use his finger genjutsu


Kabuto was protected from genjutsu enacted via eye-contact; hence why Izanami was able to work at all. Fingre genjutsu would have been perfect here actually 



> Yes I honestly don't believe any medical carries such a thing as nothing has suggested that they do carry these as so far not a single medical ninja(or any person beside Jiraiya really) has been shown carrying this type of sealing scroll.


I suppose I won't be able to convince you otherwise so we'll leave it at that.


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## LostSelf (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> We extrapolate these kinds of things all the time in debates based on said feats, hype, etc. as I'm sure you're aware of. Nothing about doing the same to suggest that Sakura would have a scroll on her that could seal the black flames seems ridiculous to me. Unless I'm mistaken, reputation falls under the category of hype and Sakura with her stature would not lead to the unbelievable proposition that she would carry such a tool when it would be useful against (at the time) an enemy of Konaha.
> 
> I don't even consider this a leap of faith and honestly I could point out potentially worse examples that are made on an almost daily basis if you want.



Give me examples of accepted arguments of this type that are followed by more than one person other than the one who said it.

Because as much as i recall, all the arguments based on only assumptions have something to back it up. Sakura having a scroll when Tsunade was not even in the village, there was no Hokage there, Naruto never shown to be carrying one, especially when he had Sasuke's warning of killing him and Konoha one day doesn't look very believable.

At least, not to me.

Your opinion is well respected, as we all have the right to have one. But i don't think this argument can be accepted as it has nothing to convince the other.


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## Cord (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> If you can show me where it's asserted that the scroll that Jiraiya used to seal the black flames is exclusive to himself I would have no choice but to concede the point.



 the Databook entry for that Fire Sealing Method. The only fire sealing method we've seen and we'll ever see in the series. Had there been "others" listed, then we can assume that there could've been others that are knowledgeable of this technique, can summon and can utilize it anytime. Even if it has been displayed by others after Jiraiya, there's still no solid evidence to support that Tsunade can also use it, let alone, Sakura.

I would actually love to ask where the contrary was asserted as well, but I wouldn't because implications with the absence of feats or statements still hold value in arguments after all. In this case though, there aren't any (implications).



> Otherwise, why would we assume that Jiraiya--acting as an agent of Konaha--would not have the black flames as used by a relevant threat to Konaha analyzed and furthermore suggest that at the very least the nation's medical ninja keep them on hand?



Yes, because he surmised that all medical ninjas are going to encounter Amaterasu (or any of the sort) in battle? And it's like what I said to LostSelf, should I also argue that Tsunade and pretty much all Jinchurikis would use Taju Kage Bunshins in battle? I mean why not? Their chakra reserves allow them to do so and any competent ninja can do bunshins. 

But I wouldn't, because the manga hasn't established that as a part of their arsenals.



> In the case of Sasuke's Gokayu I assume that the black flames reached the mass that it did because of the spreading that occurs in the intermediate and fuel that Sasuke's flames provided.



Prior to the flames' contact with Sasuke's Gokyaku, it was only the front angle that was shown, so there was no way to determine the exact mass that it has. Granted, this quantity would still be enough to entirely engulf Sakura (or at least, most of her). Sasuke would've met the same fate had his gargantuan Juin wing not been there to delay the subsequent spreading of the flames and if Itachi was actually trying to kill him.



> You can see when Itachi uses Ama here that it is initially not nearly as big. I'm also not sure it's fair to judge how quickly the black flames spread based on the sequence of panels given that for obvious reasons intermediate steps aren't shown; i.e., one moment the flames make contact, the next they've spread without showing how much time has elapsed in between.



What intermediate steps? They all happened in the same page, in consecutive panels (as indicated by the SFXs). How is that not a display of the immediate spreading?

Though, I'm curious as to how do you want the "time elapsed in between" to be expressed in a manga.


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 12, 2014)

My babe is getting annoyed. You guys better stop lol

But Edo Itachi is above current Sakura end of story.


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## Bonly (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> You responded to me questioning whether I understood or not?  I then proceeded to rebuttle said point.



If ya knew the point then there was no point is saying " I don't see the point here." thus wasting time.




> Which requires eye-contact. All the while draining Itachi's chakra with said clones.



And?



> No, actually it's bad for me since I have to respond to these double-standards.



If you actual have a good case for this then I'd agree



> Well sure, he can use it whenever the hell he wants but in practice it's for when the opponent is avoiding eye-contact, as demonstrated when he used it on Naruto.



Glad you agree.



> Why would he use finger genjutsu when the opponent is staring right at him when Tsukuyomi is an option?



Since using the MS slowly has a person goes blind the more they use it I'd assume that, that might be a good reason to use the finger genjutsu even when Tsukuyomi is an option. Though that would depend on the person he's going against and the knowledge they have and what not



> Kabuto was protected from genjutsu enacted via eye-contact; hence why Izanami was able to work at all. Fingre genjutsu would have been perfect here actually



 Not sure if trolling or serious but no the finger genjutsu wouldn't work.


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 12, 2014)

Kabuto is also a medical ninja, He failed to defeat Itachi despite having sage mode, insane regenaration. Sakura will certainly fail.

There is no evidence she had known a fire sealing jutsu. And Amatereasu is not just the issue here, there is still SUsanoo. Havent we heard Zetsu saying Itachi with Yata mirror and the Sword is invincible?

Kaguya also complemented of how Itachi was better than Sasuke.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 12, 2014)

Sakura gets sealed in a bottle and she cant do anything to stop it cause she is not fast enough also genjutsu.


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## Jagger (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> Not seeing how genjutsu is a factor when Sakura is aware to avoid eye-contact with a proficient genjutsu user. Crows? I also don't see their respective speeds being all that different at this point; most likely any difference is negligible.
> 
> Stamina should figure to play a significant role in this matchup and Sakura's top-tier regeneration and medical abilities should prove difficult for Itach to kill her.


Yes, Sakura won't look at Itachi's eyes. Now, what? So far, Sakura hasn't been described to be a sensor type capable of anticipating the eye pressure caused by Amaterasu unlike Nagato, Obito, etc. 

Unlike Gai, she doesn't have experience fighting genjutsu users and even if she applies the method, the scenario isn't the same. When Gai fought Kakashi numerous times, they were usually spare matches, so, most likely, Gai had the luxury of making a mistake while perfecting his counter against genjutsu.

Sakura? In this fight, she lacks that.


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## Psp123789 (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> What makes you think Sakura doesn't have a scroll or medical ninjutsu that can relieve the black flames? In fact, I would imagine after Jiraiya sealed them back in Part I he would have made it an objective of having them analyzed and some kind of "cure" established.


Even if we assume she has this magical scroll, she still has to take it out while she's experiencing terrible pain and agony. She'll be in extreme panic and won't be able to think or act rationally, she'll just be flailing around like killer bee was until the flames kill her. Also why would itachi watch her take out the scroll and heal herself? He could just casually impale her with totsuka and be done with it.


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## Invictus-Kun (Jul 13, 2014)

Alright, sakura takes out a scroll while Amaterasu was eating her up. When she finnaly opened it. The Amaterasu vanish, but her head was up up away, Totsoka slash. Boom.....


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## Dr. White (Jul 13, 2014)

Lol at Sakura gaining other people's equipment.

Jiraiya himself was a katon user, capable of using it on a grand scale, it makes sense why a Sannin that uses fire would have one.

Why would Sakura being carrying one. is she Fire. Co ?


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## StickaStick (Jul 13, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Give me examples of accepted arguments of this type that are followed by more than one person other than the one who said it.


Mads, in particular, and Obito being able to use certain Rinnegan abilities despite never having used them given ample opportunities. Itachi being able to genjutsu the Kyuubi. Or how about two that are relevant here: Totsuku being able to seal anything other than stationary targets and finger genjutsu working on higher-level ninja?



> Because as much as i recall, all the arguments based on only assumptions have something to back it up. Sakura having a scroll when Tsunade was not even in the village, there was no Hokage there, Naruto never shown to be carrying one, especially when he had Sasuke's warning of killing him and Konoha one day doesn't look very believable.


The scroll is small enough to be concealed [1]; as far as I know Naruto has never had a reason til this point to use one. Not that Naruto would necessarily have as much of a reason to have one on hand as Sakura, but just pointing that out.



Cordelia said:


> the Databook entry for that Fire Sealing Method. The only fire sealing method we've seen and we'll ever see in the series. Had there been "others" listed, then we can assume that there could've been others that are knowledgeable of this technique, can summon and can utilize it anytime. Even if it has been displayed by others after Jiraiya, there's still no solid evidence to support that Tsunade can also use it, let alone, Sakura.
> 
> I would actually love to ask where the contrary was asserted as well, but I wouldn't because implications with the absence of feats or statements still hold value in arguments after all. In this case though, there aren't any (implications).


Nowhere does the entry provided claim it to be exclusive to Jiraiya and even its rank and main text would appear to suggest it's a relatively uncomplicated seal to perform. 



> Yes, because he surmised that all medical ninjas are going to encounter Amaterasu (or any of the sort) in battle?


Why not, if nothing else as a precaution? At the very least Sakura who often tags along with Naruto (an Akatsuki target) should have some ready. 



> And it's like what I said to LostSelf, should I also argue that Tsunade and pretty much all Jinchurikis would use Taju Kage Bunshins in battle? I mean why not? Their chakra reserves allow them to do so and any competent ninja can do bunshins.
> 
> But I wouldn't, because the manga hasn't established that as a part of their arsenals.


Because it doesn't fit in with their respective fighting styles? Having a seal scroll for the black flames in contrast should be right up Sakura' ally. Admittedly part of the problem is that Sakura to this point as far as I know has never been in a situation to use one. Granted I could see how this could be seen as a loose interpretation but still within reasonable limits IMO.



> Prior to the flames' contact with Sasuke's Gokyaku, it was only the front angle that was shown, so there was no way to determine the exact mass that it has. Granted, this quantity would still be enough to entirely engulf Sakura (or at least, most of her). Sasuke would've met the same fate had his gargantuan Juin wing not been there to delay the subsequent spreading of the flames and if Itachi was actually trying to kill him.


That's assuming Itachi can land a clean hit. In your example Sasuke is actually an easier target because of the protruding wing. 



> What intermediate steps? They all happened in the same page, in consecutive panels (as indicated by the SFXs). How is that not a display of the immediate spreading?


My point is is that the spreading doesn't appear to be uniform in how quickly it happens. Here [1], for instance, Ei contracts the flames but they haven't spread by much, if at all, by several moments later [2]. It would actually appear the flames spread somewhat slowly; in Sasuke's case he's hit with an initial large "burst" which makes the flames looking like they're spreading quicker then they actually are. And then we have to take into account how much Sakura's Byakugō will slow the slow the process by.



> Though, I'm curious as to how do you want the "time elapsed in between" to be expressed in a manga.


I don't--just saying it should be taken into consideration.



Bonly said:


> If ya knew the point then there was no point is saying " I don't see the point here." thus wasting time.


I can understand where you're coming from and disagree at the same time, which is what I did.



> And?


And for that Itachi is probably better off going another route. 



> Glad you agree.


Never disagreed 



> Since using the MS slowly has a person goes blind the more they use it I'd assume that, that might be a good reason to use the finger genjutsu even when Tsukuyomi is an option. Though that would depend on the person he's going against and the knowledge they have and what not


In that case why not use a garden variety (still powerful in Itachi's case) genjutsu? 



> Not sure if trolling or serious *but no the finger genjutsu wouldn't work.*


Why not, besides the obvious fact that Kabuto is way out its league? Finger genjustu like Izanami doesn't require eye-contact? Or are you saying his snakes would break him out?


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## StickaStick (Jul 13, 2014)

Sorry if I don't respond to everyone, considering I'm not going to engage in discussion with 4-6 different ppl at once and most of it seems to be concerning the same things anyhow.

I've still yet to see though what Itachi has for a massive Katsuyu summon. Or is Sakura standing around the entire time waiting to be set aflame?


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## Dr. White (Jul 13, 2014)

The Format said:


> Sorry if I don't respond to everyone, considering I'm not going to engage in discussion with 4-6 different ppl at once and most of it seems to be concerning the same things anyhow.
> 
> I've still yet to see though what Itachi has for a massive Katsuyu summon. Or is Sakura standing around the entire time waiting to be set aflame?



Itachi amaterasu's her face. Splitting won't help because it will spread. 

Either that or she gets genjutsu'd or Totsuka sealed. 

Pick your poison.


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## Rocky (Jul 13, 2014)

The Format said:


> I've still yet to see though what Itachi has for a massive Katsuyu summon. Or is Sakura standing around the entire time waiting to be set aflame?



Itachi can hit her whether she's moving around or not..


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## StickaStick (Jul 13, 2014)

Said I wouldn't respond to 4-6 ppl but here I go anyway lol. This will be it for me for the night regardless.



Dr. White said:


> Itachi amaterasu's her face. Splitting won't help because it will spread.
> 
> Either that or she gets genjutsu'd or Totsuka sealed.
> 
> Pick your poison.


The flames take time to spread. The part that is affected (to the point necessary where it hasn't spread yet) can "detach" in the meantime. Np.

To the other part of the your post pls read the rest of the thread.



Rocky said:


> Itachi can hit her whether she's moving around or not..


Of course but that's assuming he's not under constant pressure of his own, say from Katsuyu all over the place, and Sakura doesn't have her own means of protecting herself.

Literally all I'm reading is what Itachi's doing and Sakura is just kind of jumping all over the place lolly dolly.


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## Cord (Jul 13, 2014)

The Format said:


> Nowhere does the entry provided claim it to be exclusive to Jiraiya and even its rank and main text would appear to suggest it's a relatively uncomplicated seal to perform.



The databook doesn't provide those claims. The entries on Jiraiya's Yomi Numa or Orohimaru's Yamata no Orochi or Tsunade's Ranshinsho don't say they're exclusive to their users, but they are until shown or stated otherwise. The rank may suggest that it's relatively easy to learn, but so is Katon Gokyaku and other countless elemental jutsus, but we don't assume that they can be used by any random character we want to give the them to.




> Why not, if nothing else as a precaution? At the very least Sakura who often tags along with Naruto (an Akatsuki target) should have some ready.



If that's the case, then I assume Jiraiya must have also given or taught it to Kakashi considering that he's Naruto's mentor and teammate who also tags along with him apart from being the most likely to engage someone of Itachi's caliber in battle. Or pretty much, all the Jonins in Konoha because they are more exposed to combat than medical ninjas. I should also assume that he'd give Sakura a Chakra-suppressing seal that would contain Kurama's chakra from overtaking Naruto's person for the same reason (because he gave it to Kakashi, yet he didn't which is weird).



> Because it doesn't fit in with their respective fighting styles? Having a seal scroll for the black flames in contrast should be right up Sakura' ally.



Correct and nope. 



> That's assuming Itachi can land a clean hit. In your example Sasuke is actually an easier target because of the protruding wing.



With or without the protruding wing, Sasuke would've still been hit and that's the point. There's no reason to assume that someone who has an inferior speed, inferior reflexes and without Juin to boost her physical attributes will be more difficult to hit. 



> My point is is that the spreading doesn't appear to be uniform in how quickly it happens. Here [1], for instance, Ei contracts the flames but they haven't spread by much, if at all, by several moments later [2]. It would actually appear the flames spread somewhat slowly; in Sasuke's case he's hit with an initial large "burst" which makes the flames looking like they're spreading quicker then they actually are. And then we have to take into account how much Sakura's Byakugō will slow the slow the process by.



It didn't immediately spread upon contact because of the measly quantity of the flames that hit Ei's arm and Raiton no Yoroi, a potent defense, likely hampered the spreading. The Byakugo can only delay the damage that Sakura gets inflicted with, but it will not slow the spreading process.



The Format said:


> I've still yet to see though what Itachi has for a massive Katsuyu summon. Or is Sakura standing around the entire time waiting to be set aflame?



I very much doubt than an in-character Sakura is going to be so willing to sacrifice her summon/ally as a meat shield.


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## Bonly (Jul 13, 2014)

The Format said:


> I can understand where you're coming from and disagree at the same time, which is what I did.



Cool and all but again please don't say you don't understand the point just to say you understood it, seems like a waste in the end imo 



> And for that Itachi is probably better off going another route.



And? I'm not suggesting that Itachi will constantly be using said things just to try and get off a simple genjutsu. I just listed things he has and what he could do with them theoretically when you asked. I'm not saying Itachi will actually use these option as I personally doubt he wouldn't just go with an Ama with full knowledge.



> In that case why not use a garden variety (still powerful in Itachi's case) genjutsu?



Why?



> Why not, besides the obvious fact that Kabuto is way out its league? Finger genjustu like Izanami doesn't require eye-contact? Or are you saying his snakes would break him out?



Naruto had looked at Itachi's finger then he was put under a genjutsu. Chances are one needs to look at the finger in order for the genjutsu to work just like one needs to look into his eyes for a Sharingan genjutsu to work.


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## LostSelf (Jul 13, 2014)

The Format said:


> Mads, in particular, and Obito being able to use certain Rinnegan abilities despite never having used them given ample opportunities. Itachi being able to genjutsu the Kyuubi. Or how about two that are relevant here: Totsuku being able to seal anything other than stationary targets and finger genjutsu working on higher-level ninja?




Obito has the Rinnegan and was said to be able to use Human Path and could use Rinne Tensei. He could use two of the six paths jutsus. This evidence is strong enough to assume he was capable of using Nagato's jutsus. Even then, in every matchup, nobody says Obito will be using Shinra Tensei, they stick to the canon.


It was said that with Mangekyo Sharingan, you could control the Kyuubi. Madara and Kid Obito could control it with the same eyes Itachi has. Again, there's a lot of hype and evidence behind that claim.


I fail to see why Totsuka cannot seal a moving target. I mean, it's not like Sakura will be moving like nothing if she's stabbed.


And Orochimaru is a high level ninja, and was trolled by Sasuke's genjutsu and kid Itachi's genjutsu. Those have evidences. Sakura carrying Jiraiya's scroll doesn't have any.



> The scroll is small enough to be concealed [1]; as far as I know Naruto has never had a reason til this point to use one. Not that Naruto would necessarily have as much of a reason to have one on hand as Sakura, but just pointing that out.



Naruto had a reason. Sasuke was on rampage, Sasuke threatened him with killing him. Yet, nobody went to the war with Amaterasu scrolls. Nor Naruto, nor everybody. This is something that only Jiraiya has until proven otherwise.


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## trance (Jul 13, 2014)

> Location: Nuked Konaha
> Distance: 25m
> Knowledge: Full
> Mindset: IC; for the kill



Open battlefield? Relatively short distance? Full knowledge? Going for the kill? 

All of these conditions help Itachi _much_ more than Sakura. She doesn't have the speed feats to suggest she can dodge Amaterasu. Her regeneration and Katsuyu's survivability is completely and utterly bypassed via Totsuka Sword. Not only that but he's extremely unlikely to get hit by anything Sakura throws at him via his own superior speed, clone feints and Sharingan pre-cognition.

Itachi wins both scenarios quite easily.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 13, 2014)

I was expecting this to be one of those counter-intuitive threads that PDQ would make, where circumstances would align just right to allow an otherwise drastically disadvantaged character to win.  For example, Sakura impaling herself on Itachi's kunai, and punching him, as she tried with Madara.

However Itachi was given full knowledge, and has several hard counters to Sakura, as well as the speed to flit in and out of battle with Bee and KCM Naruto, and a superior showing to Sasuke during the Kabuto fight.  Sakura has shown the speed, reflexes, or taijutsu prowess to make up for that difference.  Indeed, she almost got hit by a Juubi spawn after her ground punch.  Such vulnerability to opponents that every other member of the Rookie 9, (including characters like Shino, who are not known or praised for their speed and taijutsu) were taking in sets and sequence isn't befitting of someone who excels in those areas.  Nor do I think someone who almost was struck by them possesses the abilities to intercept or evade Ameterasu.  

Furthermore, any subsequent counters or ideas about her countering those jutsu are predicated on her opponent simply standing there and allowing Sakura to do so, which runs counter to how one should act in a fight.  A fight, which by stipulations, include _full knowledge_ of said counters.  Preventative measures rely on Sakura out speeding Itachi in hand seals and hand speed, and while I'm not of the opinion Sakura is slow per se, in weaving seals, Itachi's Ameterasu require _no seals_, and his jutsu that do require seals were performed at a pace so blinding even Kakashi's sharingan couldn't keep track of them.

Failing to find any trick or hint, I have to say this is an incredibly unbalanced match up, and I'm surprised it's garnered such interest.


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## Ersa (Jul 13, 2014)

This is a ridiculously one-sided thread.

Anyone arguing for Sakura should probably take up a form of entertainment that doesn't require reading comprehension to understand power levels. I recommend Fairy Tail or Donald the Duck.


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## Jad (Jul 13, 2014)

These are tge same people that believe Sakura can beat Gai. Sakura is being ungratefully overrated by select members of this forum. Sakura loses all day and week. With or without knowledge. Itachi in his sleep against Sakura on her best day results in the same way.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 13, 2014)

You have to restrict genjutsu, sharingan and probably ninjutsu too if you want Sakura to win this. Even then her only hope is outlasting Itachi.


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## Bkprince33 (Jul 13, 2014)

Wtf am I reading


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## StickaStick (Jul 13, 2014)

Cordelia said:


> stuff


K, I concede the point. I see that I'm pretty much banging my head against the wall at this point on this issue.



> I very much doubt than an in-character Sakura is going to be so willing to sacrifice her summon/ally as a meat shield.


Not a meat shield. Katsuyu will be putting immense pressure on Itachi as well. Of course she'll (Katsuyu) be expected to take some hits of her own but she isn't there merely to soak up hits.



Bonly said:


> And? I'm not suggesting that Itachi will constantly be using said things just to try and get off a simple genjutsu. I just listed things he has and what he could do with them theoretically when you asked. I'm not saying Itachi will actually use these option as I personally doubt he wouldn't just go with an Ama with full knowledge.


K.



> Why?


Because it would be more potent.



> Naruto had looked at Itachi's finger then he was put under a genjutsu. Chances are one needs to look at the finger in order for the genjutsu to work just like one needs to look into his eyes for a Sharingan genjutsu to work.


Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. Although Sakura should still be safe since she will have learned from Naruto's mistake.



LostSelf said:


> Obito has the Rinnegan and was said to be able to use Human Path and could use Rinne Tensei. He could use two of the six paths jutsus. This evidence is strong enough to assume he was capable of using Nagato's jutsus. Even then, in every matchup, nobody says Obito will be using Shinra Tensei, they stick to the canon.
> 
> 
> It was said that with Mangekyo Sharingan, you could control the Kyuubi. Madara and Kid Obito could control it with the same eyes Itachi has. Again, there's a lot of hype and evidence behind that claim.
> ...


Everything I listed is readily accepted based on creaky foundations. Itachi can control the Kyuubi because two other individuals (mentor and pupil) with the Sharingan have. Totsuka is literally featless against non-stationary characters. Finger genjutsu hasn't been used since early Part II (and gives away the genjutsu anyhow) and is now somehow soloing War-Arc Sakura. Mads and Obito can use certain Rinnegan techs despite never having used them in-character. A number of individuals readily accept these as fact despite plenty of argument to the contrary. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand I still see Katsuyu being criminally overlooked here. At 25m Sakura should have enough room to summon Katsuyu before Itachi AmaBliztes, which isn't even IC for him to begin with. At that point Itachi will then have to contend with something that massively dwarfs his Stage 4 Susanoo [1]. If one takes into consideration what she's demonstrated before and since then then it could be reasonably assumed she could summon an even greater percentage. Heck, 20% by itself would be mind-boggling. How is Itachi going to be reasonably expected to land an Ama on Sakura when she has virtually an indefinite amount of cover which would likely persuade Itachi against wasting his chakra on burning Katsuyu in vain in an attempt to hit Sakura. All the while Itachi will be under constant pressure--likely forced keep Susanoo up for defense. Sakura could very well outlast Itachi in the stamina department if he can't come up with a clever way to make clean contract against Sakura with genjutsu (unlikely IMO for reasons given) or an Ama.

Shit, I'm not even saying Sakura wins here but I don't see how it's coming down to anything less then high-diff. for either of them.


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## LostSelf (Jul 13, 2014)

The Format said:


> Everything I listed is readily accepted based on creaky foundations. Itachi can control the Kyuubi because two other individuals (mentor and pupil) with the Sharingan have. Totsuka is literally featless against non-stationary characters. Finger genjutsu hasn't been used since early Part II (and gives away the genjutsu anyhow) and is now somehow soloing War-Arc Sakura. Mads and Obito can use certain Rinnegan techs despite never having used them in-character. A number of individuals readily accept these as fact despite plenty of argument to the contrary.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Except that those arguments have a very solid base behind, not on creaky foundations. In the manga, nothing says Xperson can control the Kyuubi. It says that the MS can control the Kyuubi. Now, if Itachi has the MS, is safe to say he could control the Kyuubi, as he has what it was said to control lt. Nothing of this is based of air.

What up with Totsuka sealing non-stationary targets? Is moving somehow erasing the sealing effect of the blade?

I have never seen someone saying Obito will be using Shinra Tensei. But we can say he knows how to use it because he magically learned Human Path and Rinne Tensei. Two of the jutsus Nagato showcased via the Rinnegan. Another assumption wich base is not holding off the air.

And again. Basic sharingan genjutsu trolled Danzo, trolled Orochimaru, controlled Konan, how is finger genjutsu useless? Saying it wont work on Sakura is not being actually honest, because you are giving Sakura something she has not shown at all: Genjutsu defense.

Again, all those things you listed are based on solid Canon statements. Sakura having something that only Jiraiya has used has nothing of that. I don't know how you can compare both things.


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## Icegaze (Jul 13, 2014)

why is this thread so long. 
itachi with just sharingan kills sakura easily. genjutsu GG
chakra screwed up, healing deactivated. head sliced. itachi would never need to use MS against such a horrendously weak opponent


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## StickaStick (Jul 13, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Except that those arguments have a very solid base behind, not on creaky foundations. In the manga, nothing says Xperson can control the Kyuubi. It says that the MS can control the Kyuubi. Now, if Itachi has the MS, is safe to say he could control the Kyuubi, as he has what it was said to contro lt. Nothing of this is based of air.


It's insinuated that the Mangekyō Sharingan is needed as a prerequisite to control the Kyuubi. No where is said anyone with an MS can do it, otherwise we'd have examples of other Uchiha controlling the Kyuubi. Instead, we have two individuals. And the second just happens to be the pupil of the first.



> What up with Totsuka sealing non-stationary targets? Is moving somehow erasing the sealing effect of the blade?


We don't know how the sealing process of the blade works. Moving very well could disrupt the sealing to a significant degree. Far removed from the common belief among some that Totsuka = GG.



LostSelf said:


> I have never seen someone saying Obito will be using Shinra Tensei. But we can say he knows how to use it because he magically learned Human Path and Rinne Tensei. Two of the jutsus Nagato showcased via the Rinnegan. Another assumption wich base is not holding off the air.
> .


There was a thread recently (Tomoe-Rinnegan Sasuke vs. Dbl-Rinnegan Mads, I believe) where ppl were arguing this on both sides. Also, saying he knows how to use it is a far cry from actually using it; same goes for Mads. Why grant them these feats when they've never shown them despite having ample opportunities?



> And again. Basic sharingan genjutsu trolled Danzo, trolled Orochimaru, controlled Konan, how if finger genjutsu useless? Saying it wont work on Sakura is not being actually honest, because you are giving Sakura something she has not shown at all: Genjutsu defense.


Anyone with sufficient chakra control can break finger genjutsu [1]. Furthermore it lacks the amplification that comes with using the Sharingan.


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## TRN (Jul 13, 2014)

Itachi solo in 0.23


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## StickaStick (Jul 13, 2014)

TRN said:


> Itachi solo in 0.23



Don't you mean Totsuka seals at the speed of light GG?


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## Trojan (Jul 13, 2014)

The Format said:


> Don't you mean Totsuka seals at the speed of light GG?



Does not the Totsuka needs to cut through the things before it seals them away? 
Can it do that to any of the slug pieces?


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## Dr. White (Jul 13, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Does not the Totsuka needs to cut through the things before it seals them away?
> Can it do that to any of the slug pieces?



Once pierced the target becomes immobile because Totsuka has a genjutsu. The totsuka sword is really magical Sake that can pierce and seal a person into an eternal genjutsu bliss. Once you're in the Sasuke there isn't a way out (except like in Oro's case you have pre seeded chakra)


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## StickaStick (Jul 13, 2014)

Where is it said Totsuka paralyzes the target? 



Hussain said:


> Does not the Totsuka needs to cut through the things before it seals them away?
> Can it do that to any of the slug pieces?


It's ethereal so I don't know if it needs to cut per se but the slugs should be able to liquefy to to avoid being sealed regardless.


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## Icegaze (Jul 13, 2014)

why are people discussing sealing katsuyu via totsuka or katsuyu at all??
defeating the summoner dispells the summon 
itachi kills her in the many ways he can. and katsuyu goes poof
animal path already showed that killing the summoner dispells the summon 

Also the fact that the summon musters up chakra to bring the summon into their world and the summon is limited to a certain amount of time based ont the chakra used to summon them. 

Its ridiculous how this is a thread that hasnt been locked. yet my EMS sasuke with madara PS feats +enton susanoo vs hashirama was somehow blocked for being unbalanced. Mods are you serious???? 
NF has dropped alot


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## Bloo (Jul 13, 2014)

Itachi takes this pretty easily. Sakura may have had a retconned power-up to put her on equal playing ground with Naruto and Sasuke, before they were upgraded by Hagoromo. However, even though theoretically she should equal them since that's the effect Kishimoto was going for, she has next to no feats to back up that idea. Itachi demolishes her based on pure feats. There is no way Sakura is going to handle Susano'o, Amaterasu, or Tsukuyomi, assuming Itachi will be pressured enough to use them.


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## Chaotic Gangsta (Jul 13, 2014)

Are you seriously asking this question as if it isn't already very blatantly obvious as to who the winner is


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## StickaStick (Jul 14, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Also the fact that the summon musters up chakra to bring the summon into their world and the summon is limited to a certain amount of time based ont the chakra used to summon them.


Have you seen how much chakra Kishi has given Sakura stored in her Byakugō? 

This is quite honestly the least of her worries.



Bloo said:


> Itachi takes this pretty easily. Sakura may have had a retconned power-up to put her on equal playing ground with Naruto and Sasuke, before they were upgraded by Hagoromo. However, even though theoretically she should equal them since that's the effect Kishimoto was going for, she has next to no feats to back up that idea. Itachi demolishes her based on pure feats. There is no way Sakura is going to handle Susano'o, Amaterasu, or Tsukuyomi, assuming Itachi will be pressured enough to use them.


There is no way Itachi is going to be able to handle 20+% Katsuyu, assuming Sakura will be pressured enough to even need to summon that great of a percentage. 

See how that works.

Tell me how Itachi's Stage 4 Susanoo is going to deal with something that massively dwarfs its size. Tell me how is Itachi going to hit Sakura with Ama when she has a virtually indefinite amount of cover. And please don't tell me that Sakura wouldnt be willing to use Katsuyu in this manner as a matter of character; chances are she calls Itachi's bluff against wasting his precious chakra stores spamming Ama against a seemingly endless wave of Katsuyu in an effort to eventually get to Sakura. Itachi would be dead from chakra exhaustion before he could make a dent. Also, tell me how Itachi is landing Tsukuyomi when Sakura knows to avoid eye-contact and furthermore can use Katsuyu to block the LOS. Keep in mind while Itachi is trying to figure out a way to do these things he will most certainly be forced to keep up his Susanoo the entire time (draining chakra) to combat the pressure Katsuyu will be putting on him. 

Maybe once these questions are answered we can get somewhere.


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## LostSelf (Jul 14, 2014)

The Format said:


> It's insinuated that the Mangekyō Sharingan is needed as a prerequisite to control the Kyuubi. No where is said anyone with an MS can do it, otherwise we'd have examples of other Uchiha controlling the Kyuubi. Instead, we have two individuals. And the second just happens to be the pupil of the first.



It is said that MS can control the Kyuubi, not that is is a prerequisite.



> We don't know how the sealing process of the blade works. Moving very well could disrupt the sealing to a significant degree. Far removed from the common belief among some that Totsuka = GG.



We don't know that moving disrupts the sealing. It has never been implied. Therefore i don't know why you are bringing this.



> There was a thread recently (Tomoe-Rinnegan Sasuke vs. Dbl-Rinnegan Mads, I believe) where ppl were arguing this on both sides. Also, saying he knows how to use it is a far cry from actually using it; same goes for Mads. Why grant them these feats when they've never shown them despite having ample opportunities?



As much as i've seen, nobody says Obito is using jutsus outside of the ones showing, and if somebody says it, then they are not wrong nor right, as there's evidence of Obito gaining six paths's jutsus after gaining the Rinnegan. But it's not something one would use in the BD.



> Anyone with sufficient chakra control can break finger genjutsu [1]. Furthermore it lacks the amplification that comes with using the Sharingan.



Sakura could break the genjutsu. But that doesn't mean she cannot fall into that.


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## Mercurial (Jul 14, 2014)

Itachi blitzes and puts a kunai at her throat. I mean, there are people that overstimate Itachi. But Sakura without Byakugo and Katsuyu is stomped by people like Karui and Omoi. She can't dodge the Juubi Mokuton spikes like the Alliance fodders. Her base skills are worlds behind Itachi's, or most decent S-ranked shinobi.


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## Icegaze (Jul 14, 2014)

The Format said:


> Have you seen how much chakra Kishi has given Sakura stored in her Byakugō?
> 
> This is quite honestly the least of her worries.
> 
> ...



True she has a lot of chakra. Still doesn't help her against genjutsu 
she dies very quickly I don't get how mods aren't locking this insulting thread. 
People who have shown genjutsu ability far beyond Sakura have all been pawned by itachi genjutsu
It's horrendous to think she somehow survives it 
Before she even summons katsuyu she is genjutsu'd
Even if she pulls off summoning once she dies katsuyu goes poof


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## Undead (Jul 14, 2014)

Are you guys shitting me? How is this fight even a debate?


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## StickaStick (Jul 14, 2014)

@LostSelf

We'll move on then as we clearly disagree here. I'm sure when these things undoubtedly arise again we can discuss it in a more relevant thread.  



Raikiri19 said:


> Itachi blitzes and puts a kunai at her throat. I mean, there are people that overstimate Itachi. *But Sakura without Byakugo and Katsuyu is stomped by people like Karui and Omoi.* She can't dodge the Juubi Mokuton spikes like the Alliance fodders. Her base skills are worlds behind Itachi's, or most decent S-ranked shinobi.


WFT kind of logic is this? How does Itachi fair without his MS? How do any of the top-tiers fair without their haxx?



Icegaze said:


> True she has a lot of chakra. Still doesn't help her against genjutsu
> she dies very quickly I don't get how mods aren't locking this insulting thread.
> People who have shown genjutsu ability far beyond Sakura have all been pawned by itachi genjutsu
> It's horrendous to think she somehow survives it
> ...


25m... requires eye-contact in some capacity...  no offense man, but done replying to your posts. You're not evening attempting to consider the other side of the equation.


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## Tengu (Jul 15, 2014)

I can't believe this thread has 7 pages, wow just wow...


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## Icegaze (Jul 15, 2014)

^believe me I am significantly more surprised than you 
Considering some are implying itachi can't genjutsu from 25m despite shikamaru dad implying strongly itachi could genjutsu several ninja outside ninja sensor range . Mods are enabling format here . Bet next thread would be mei can beat itachi or worse Sakura doesn't die to minato at the speed of light

sasuke a noivce at genjutsu compared to itachi has genjutsu'd deidara from further than 25m 
genjutsu C from about 25m 

the enabling is strong on this thread. By the time we have Format claiming sakura has fire sealing scroll, can somehow react and avoid amaterasu or cut her limbs off  as if amaterasu to her chest can be somehow prevented. 

Please note: Mods i address you here. You are all ridiculously biased!! EMS sasuke with madara PS feats+enton PS susanoo+unlimited kirin vs hashirama is somehow unbalanced yet sakura vs itachi is not???

genjutsu GG
tskuyomi GG
amaterasu GG
better taijutsu GG

itachi is better in every single aspect. the likes Deidara, darui, asuma who are far beneath itachi troll sakura yet somehow sakura can compete with itachi. 

seriously kiss my fucking teeth. how mods are letting this slip is beyond me


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## Undead (Jul 15, 2014)

You and me both Icegaze.


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## kikutsefel (Jul 15, 2014)

I think he could beat her with taijutsu alone. Her punches may be powerful but I can't see them landing. Itachi's reactive speed is either on par or better than Sasuke's. As far as her being able to blitz, which was an ass pull IMO, still doesn't mean she can counter taijutsu effectively, which I could see him starting out with with her, since he knows she will have full knowledge of his abilities


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## Jagger (Jul 15, 2014)

The Format said:


> It's insinuated that the Mangekyō Sharingan is needed as a prerequisite to control the Kyuubi. No where is said anyone with an MS can do it, otherwise we'd have examples of other Uchiha controlling the Kyuubi. Instead, we have two individuals. And the second just happens to be the pupil of the first.


Except for the fact Itachi is recognized and hyped to be one of the strongest genjutsu users shown through the entire manga with a few above him.

And the fact the Kyuubi has spent a good part of the manga inside a shinobi. In fact, since the village was established, the beast was put inside an Uzumaki, why should an Uchiha try to control something that is being restrained in the first place?

Not to mention Madara and Izuna were the first MS users (not counting Indra).


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 15, 2014)

I would have locked this from the get go, but by the time I was actually sentient enough to deal with it, a debate had already sparked for three pages.


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## StickaStick (Jul 15, 2014)

therapist1 said:


> I think he could beat her with taijutsu alone. Her punches may be powerful but I can't see them landing. Itachi's reactive speed is either on par or better than Sasuke's. As far as her being able to blitz, which was an ass pull IMO, still doesn't mean she can counter taijutsu effectively, which I could see him starting out with with her, since he knows she will have full knowledge of his abilities


Itachi isn't winning with taijutsu here. With her Byakugō activated Sakura brushes it off since he can't realistically do enough damage before she can regen. Itachi also risks taking one of the face which very well could end him. Besides, Itachi will be hard pressed to engage in taijutsu with the constant pressure Katsuyu will be putting on him. 

I should also point that with the most recent chapter it seems I may have significantly underestimated the percentage of Katsuyu that she can summon. Not sure it we're allowed to talk about that here yet or not though. 



Jagger said:


> Except for the fact Itachi is recognized and hyped to be one of the strongest genjutsu users shown through the entire manga with a few above him.
> 
> And the fact the Kyuubi has spent a good part of the manga inside a shinobi. In fact, since the village was established, the beast was put inside an Uzumaki, why should an Uchiha try to control something that is being restrained in the first place?
> 
> Not to mention Madara and Izuna were the first MS users (not counting Indra).


As was pointed out to me a while back, we don't know the exact mechanics of how the Sharingan allows control over the bijuu--whether it's genjutsu related or not. 

Everything else you've said amounts to convenient excuses. The MS grants the means to control the Kyuubi and yet I'm supposed to believe that anyone with the MS can do it because Madara Uchiha and his pupil did it. No mention or anything of it being done in the past or since.


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## Icegaze (Jul 15, 2014)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I would have locked this from the get go, but by the time I was actually sentient enough to deal with it, a debate had already sparked for three pages.



I still call BS on that 
No way is this a balanced thread only 2 posters so far even attempt to ridiculously argue that Sakura doesn't die 
Despite her having no genjutsu defense
No Amaterasu defense 
And 0 speed and reaction to dodge totsuka 

What does Sakura have ??? Taijutsu itachi can avoid for ever ,katsuyu who failed to hit giant manda who proved to be slower than rusty tsunade who is clearly slower than itachi 
Healing which is trolled by Amaterasu ,beheading and  genjutsu 

Not fair at all. 3 or 7 pages worth of BS doesn't justify the trolling that's actively happening 

I am going to do a Darui vs minato thread I had better see arguments as to why Darui wins 
and you shouldn't lock it . 

Because both threads are just as ridiculous


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## Cognitios (Jul 15, 2014)

Actually Icegaze 3 people have supported Sakura.
Hussain
The Format
Turrin


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## Icegaze (Jul 15, 2014)

^thanks 
3 out of the 20 discussing 
Good odds


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## kikutsefel (Jul 15, 2014)

The Format said:


> Itachi isn't winning with taijutsu here. With her Byakugō activated Sakura brushes it off since he can't realistically do enough damage before she can regen. Itachi also risks taking one of the face which very well could end him. Besides, Itachi will be hard pressed to engage in taijutsu with the constant pressure Katsuyu will be putting on him.



Doubt she'll be able to touch him. She is certainly powerful, but it takes a moment for her to do a punch that powerful. It's like swinging a big hammer. She isn't Maito Gai. And I don't know if she can actually regenerate that fast, but taking the chakra to regenerate is more difficult than someone constantly slashing/stabbing what is probably vital points. 

She is relatively resourceful if she has something to work off of like using Sasori's poison against him, but she can't turn anything Itachi has against him. If she's in character, I'm guessing she'll take a direct approach and probably allow her own mistakes lead her to losing. Itachi fights as if he is playing a quick-turned chess game. He isn't going to underestimate her like Sasuke would, and she isn't going to outsmart him.

In the case that he is pushed to use his MS, which I doubt, she...just can't. And I hate the idea of doing this to Katsuya but Amaterasu took down eight tails.


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## insane111 (Jul 15, 2014)

The thread title made me laugh . She could possibly make him use MS, but that would be the end.


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Jul 15, 2014)

Itachi would definitely win this one.  For one thing, his speed is far above Sakura's--he was making handseals so fast that even Kakashi's own Sharingan couldn't follow them, and he saved Bee from an Asura Realm laser that was about to fire at point-blank range.  

Additionally, Itachi has a jutsu that could get around Byakugou's regen.  In this week's chapter, we saw that

*Spoiler*: _685_ 



the acid was able to damage Sakura.  This indicates that if a source of damage remains on a Byakugou user's body and keeps continuously damaging them, it can outpace the regen.  Sakura was able to deal with this by removing the vest and sleeve that had gotten acid splashed on them, but



Itachi could use Amaterasu to achieve a similar effect.  He could aim it so that it lands directly on her skin (making it impossible for her to get it off).  And because Amaterasu spreads, even if it just hit her vest, it would quickly spread beyond that--and she might not be able to remove the vest without Amaterasu getting on her hands (if she was hit in the front where the zipper/clasp/whatever is).


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 15, 2014)

*Icegaze:* To explain my reasoning further, it's not so much that this thread is 'unbalanced' (I actually entirely agree with this, and would have locked it immediately if I found it earlier) and I have expressed my sentiments to be as such earlier on in the thread. It's more the principle of me not locking this thread out of respect for the pages of debates that have already gone on in it. Your threads were simply caught at a bad time. 

Call it 'bullshit', if you want. I don't personally care. It just so happens that we don't necessarily operate on the same rationale. Next time you spot an unbalanced thread, I recommend reporting it instead of just groaning about it.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 15, 2014)

Daenerys Stormborn said:


> Additionally, Itachi has a jutsu that could get around Byakugou's regen.  In this week's chapter, we saw that
> 
> *Spoiler*: _685_
> 
> ...



I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your final conclusion but, I just wanted to nit-pick this.

There is no evidence that Sakura was actually using Byakugou's _regeneration_, which by all accounts seems to be a separate technique to just releasing the chakra from the seal. Interestingly, any time Tsunade has activated regeneration she has _used a hand seal beforehand_ [1] Even when she activates Byakugou regeneration rather than Sozou Saisei, she does form a _single handseal_. Releasing the seal itself apparently happens through the user's own sub-conscious or will, needing no hand seals to initiate [2] [3] 


*Spoiler*: __ 



This is further supported by the fact that Obito specifically tells Sakura that she should heal her own wounds after being hit by acid, and she refuses, suggesting that her wounds weren't healing in the first place.




While Amaterasu continually burning her would definitely be a hindrance to her, it's not as though it actually _bypasses_ her regeneration, because she would presumably just regenerate constantly as it takes effect.​​


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## Dr. White (Jul 15, 2014)

Amaterasu destroy's Sakura. Cerberus is testament to it's ability to burn things that regenrate, and it seems to win. I don't even See Sakura tanking an FRS like it did.


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## Turrin (Jul 15, 2014)

Daenerys Stormborn said:


> Itachi would definitely win this one.  For one thing, his speed is far above Sakura's--he was making handseals so fast that even Kakashi's own Sharingan couldn't follow them, and he saved Bee from an Asura Realm laser that was about to fire at point-blank range.
> 
> Additionally, Itachi has a jutsu that could get around Byakugou's regen.  In this week's chapter, we saw that
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Pretty sure 685 shows Kishimoto would troll Amaterasu by just having Sakura remove her clothing. She also wasn't using Byakugo regen (or any defensive jutsu) there to conserve chakra


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## Dr. White (Jul 15, 2014)

Turrin said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure 685 shows Kishimoto would troll Amaterasu by just having Sakura remove her clothing. She also wasn't using Byakugo regen (or any defensive jutsu) there to conserve chakra



Unless she gets hit in the face or gets drowned in it. 

The acid was a splash and Sakura got some on her. It wasn't an aimed attack meant to kill.


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## StickaStick (Jul 15, 2014)

therapist1 said:


> Doubt she'll be able to touch him. She is certainly powerful, but it takes a moment for her to do a punch that powerful. It's like swinging a big hammer. She isn't Maito Gai. And I don't know if she can actually regenerate that fast, but taking the chakra to regenerate is more difficult than someone constantly slashing/stabbing what is probably vital points.
> 
> She is relatively resourceful if she has something to work off of like using Sasori's poison against him, but she can't turn anything Itachi has against him. If she's in character, I'm guessing she'll take a direct approach and probably allow her own mistakes lead her to losing. Itachi fights as if he is playing a quick-turned chess game. He isn't going to underestimate her like Sasuke would, and she isn't going to outsmart him.
> 
> In the case that he is pushed to use his MS, which I doubt, she...just can't. And I hate the idea of doing this to Katsuya but Amaterasu took down eight tails.



I'm not sure why you're reaching the conclusion that it'll take her any longer amount of time to throw a punch then it would normally. I mean, it's not like she's trying to create a crater in the ground. Even a punch at normal speed with her ridiculous strength would realistically be enough to pop Itachi's head like a balloon. I'll reiterate again that in my estimation taijutsu is probably the last route Itachi wants to go. He may be more skillful but like a boxer who can throw quick strikes, it amounts to little when the opponent is a durability freak and has a mean right hook. Short of slicing Sakura's throat (and I'm not even sure that would kill her necessarily if the cut isn't deep enough), Sakaru probably isn't going down and would have plenty of opportunities for a counterattack.



Daenerys Stormborn said:


> Itachi would definitely win this one.  For one thing, his speed is far above Sakura's--he was making handseals so fast that even Kakashi's own Sharingan couldn't follow them, and he saved Bee from an Asura Realm laser that was about to fire at point-blank range.
> 
> Additionally, Itachi has a jutsu that could get around Byakugou's regen.  In this week's chapter, we saw that
> 
> ...


The problem I have with this kind of thinking is the mindset that Sakura won't opt to summon Katsuyu right off the bat. The argument against this that I'm hearing is that it wouldn't be IC for Sakura, which is, IMO, ludicrous. Here [1], Sakura (and Tsunade) have no problem summoning Katsuyu in the middle of battle with the threat of nukes from Juubito present. The fact off the matter is that this is life or death. I'll be the first to admit now that if Sakura opts to engage Itachi in any other manner, well, she can't compete with the likes of Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, Toksuka all as viable threats. The fact that Sakura has full knowledge here cements it for me that she would have no problem summoning Katsuyu at the outset. And pardon me but Itachi is not clearing the requisite distance to Totsuka blitz or clearing the distance and building up chakra in his eye necessary for Amaterasu before Sakura can draw blood, uses hand seals, and perform a summoning jutsu that works at the speed of space-time.

At that point Itachi is in trouble whether people want to admit it or not. Katsuyu provides Sakura with the means of blocking LOS and if Sakura so chooses of even encapsulating her so Itachi frankly can't do anything other than hopelessly figure out a way to actually hit her. All the while Itachi will be pressured relentlessly by something that massively dwarfs his Stage 4 Susanoo. For the lulz Sakura could even summon a mere 10% Katsuyu (which still drawfs Itachi's S4 Susanoo) right on top of him. What are Itachi's mean of winning then?



Dr. White said:


> Amaterasu destroy's Sakura. Cerberus is testament to it's ability to burn things that regenrate, and it seems to win. I don't even See Sakura tanking an FRS like it did.


Fortunately for Sakura it takes Itachi a moment to build up the chakra in his eye to use Amaterasu so he isn't blitzing with it at the sounding bell and once Katsuyu is out Sakura has an indefinite amount of cover to take advantage of.


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## kikutsefel (Jul 15, 2014)

The Format said:


> I'm not sure why you're reaching the conclusion that it'll take her any longer amount of time to throw a punch then it would normally. I mean, it's not like she's trying to create a crater in the ground. Even a punch at normal speed with her ridiculous strength would realistically be enough to pop Itachi's head like a balloon. I'll reiterate again that in my estimation taijutsu is probably the last route Itachi wants to go. He may be more skillful but like a boxer who can throw quick strikes, it amounts to little when the opponent is a durability freak and has a mean right hook. Short of slicing Sakura's throat (and I'm not even sure that would kill her necessarily if the cut isn't deep enough), Sakaru probably isn't going down and would have plenty of opportunities for a counterattack.



That's if she can land a hit on him, which I don't believe even Killer B could do close combat. And he would be fighting with a kunai, I don't see why he wouldn't slit her throat or stab at her heart or major arteries?


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## Lurko (Jul 15, 2014)

Itachi puts Sakura in a genjustu where Sasuke is making out with Naruto.


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## Jagger (Jul 15, 2014)

The Format said:


> As was pointed out to me a while back, we don't know the exact mechanics of how the Sharingan allows control over the bijuu--whether it's genjutsu related or not.


What else would they be capable of controlling a Bijuu? It's pretty much what Itachi did when he put that girl under a genjutsu and manipulating her to separate Jiraiya from Naruto back then during Part I.

Just on a larger scale since they're controlling a gigantic beast. 



> Everything else you've said amounts to convenient excuses. The MS grants the means to control the Kyuubi and yet I'm supposed to believe that anyone with the MS can do it because Madara Uchiha and his pupil did it. No mention or anything of it being done in the past or since.


According to what the Tablet says, it is correct and, so far, Itachi hasn't lied to us about that. Itachi is one of the best genjutsu users we've seen so far and I'be inclined to believe that the method used to control a Bijuu is through a genjutsu since it's been pointed out before a Sharingan user can control another person through that method.

Itachi's mastery with the Sharingan is one of the best and it can't be doubt, he isn't an ordinary Uchiha. Not to mention the fact Madara and Izuna were the first MS users and the former was the first one to attempt to control him. After that, Kurama was imprisoned.


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## Turrin (Jul 15, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Unless she gets hit in the face or gets drowned in it.
> 
> The acid was a splash and Sakura got some on her. It wasn't an aimed attack meant to kill.


When has Amaterasu ever been used on the face.


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## Dr. White (Jul 15, 2014)

Vs Bee, and Cerberus. Also Itachi's first "shot" at Sasuke was aimed pretty high, similarly with the shot Sasuke took at Ei.


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## Turrin (Jul 15, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Vs Bee, and Cerberus. Also Itachi's first "shot" at Sasuke was aimed pretty high, similarly with the shot Sasuke took at Ei.


In both instances were talking about giant entities, where their faces take up a much larger surface area. Pretty incomparable situations.


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## Dr. White (Jul 15, 2014)

Turrin said:


> In both instances were talking about giant entities, where their faces take up a much larger surface area. Pretty incomparable situations.



Ok subsequently the surface area for Sakura is much smaller so more of amaterasu is going to reach more of her body. The acid was liquid and stained into her shirt, amaterasu is fire so if she moves around she risk spreading it, not to mention she'll be in Pain enough to make a Bjuu cry.

There is nothing Sakura can do to counter amaterasu, barring Katsuya for meat shield.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 15, 2014)

What this chapter demonstrated is that Sakura doesn't exactly have the same pain tolerance as Tsunade.  She's pretty good, I'll admit, and has some nice feats of operating through stab wounds, but Tsunade more or less ignored her arms being on fire and has run around with swords in her, while Sakura really whimpered from the acid.  That's not a knock, it's...acid.  

What that tells me is that Sakura isn't going to be all too functional while being burned by ameterasu.  It also tells me Katsuyu>Sakura.

@Dr. White

This also runs counter to your claim that Tsunade couldn't handle the pain of Neji's bokes because byako allows her to tolerate damage.  I was too lazy to point cite the panel of Tsunade pulling the swords out of her stomach post rampage and wincing, showing that she was putting up with the pain.  The wince that made the Raikage show concern.  You should remember that.  Not that this is the right thread for that, but you're here abouts.


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## Turrin (Jul 15, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Ok subsequently the surface area for Sakura is much smaller so more of amaterasu is going to reach more of her body. The acid was liquid and stained into her shirt, amaterasu is fire so if she moves around she risk spreading it, not to mention she'll be in Pain enough to make a Bjuu cry.
> 
> There is nothing Sakura can do to counter amaterasu, barring Katsuya for meat shield.



Much smaller also means more difficult to hit. We've yet to see an Amaterasu user nail someone square in the face or even attempt it IC. Moving around won't spread the flames anymore than anyone else spread them when they moved around after being caught a blaze (See Ei). 

So basically if Sakura doesn't have a meet shield, if she's in range of Amaterasu, and if she gets hit in the face she may loose to it.




The Pirate on Wheels said:


> What this chapter demonstrated is that Sakura doesn't exactly have the same pain tolerance as Tsunade.  She's pretty good, I'll admit, and has some nice feats of operating through stab wounds, but Tsunade more or less ignored her arms being on fire and has run around with swords in her, while Sakura really whimpered from the acid.  That's not a knock, it's...acid.


Sakura also wasn't using Byakugo to heal herself as Tsunade was. And Tsunade has frequently made noises when hit with damaging attacks, so that's really no argument at all to begin with. 

Sakura tanked the black element that erases all that it comes into contact being stabbed through vital organs and kept fighting, which is a more damaging attack than Acid.

It seems to me people go to extreme lengths to continue to try to justify Tsunade > Sakura, when it is simply not the author's intent in the slightest.


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## Dr. White (Jul 16, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> @Dr. White
> 
> This also runs counter to your claim that Tsunade couldn't handle the pain of Neji's bokes because byako allows her to tolerate damage.  I was too lazy to point cite the panel of Tsunade pulling the swords out of her stomach post rampage and wincing, showing that she was putting up with the pain.  The wince that made the Raikage show concern.  You should remember that.  Not that this is the right thread for that, but you're here abouts.



-What you aren't realizing is that:
A. We were talking about Base Tsunade with no access to Yin seal or Byakugou.
B. Neji striking Tsunade would not allow her to use chakra 9which I conceded Yin seal or Byakugou would allow her to circumvent like Naruto did)
C. Burning Pain is different than internal damage. Ama is hot enough to burn fire btw.
D. I never claimed she couldn't take the pain, I claimed no matter how resilient she was it doesn't matter if her body was shut down (which base Tsunade with no chakra could not do.) Mind > Matter only brings you so far; durability permitting. My argument was that Byakugo/Yin seal allow her to heal from damage and keep fighting in fights she would have other wise been incapacitated in or died in.

Dr. White 2
POW - >9000


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## Dr. White (Jul 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Much smaller also means more difficult to hit. We've yet to see an Amaterasu user nail someone square in the face or even attempt it IC. Moving around won't spread the flames anymore than anyone else spread them when they moved around after being caught a blaze (See Ei).
> 
> So basically if Sakura doesn't have a meet shield, if she's in range of Amaterasu, and if she gets hit in the face she may loose to it.


-Not when she isn't fast enough to dodge it, and Itachi can simply swallow her whole in one hit. 
-Itachi was able to catch a Juin Hebi Sasuke (who began running prior to Amaterasu being used the second time) and accurately make sure it hit the Juin wing, as to not do direct damage to sasuke.
-Once again Itachi was about to nail Ei in the face/chest but he went V2 and avoided it.
-Ei has no clothing on his arms, hence why moving was only spreading it up his arm. If Sakura gets hit and starts flailing around in clothing (she has multiple layers) she will only keep spreading it by fanning it around via movement. also if it makes contact with any par of her skin she is fucked unless she is gonna chop her skin off or the hurt body part.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 16, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> -What you aren't realizing is that:
> A. We were talking about Base Tsunade with no access to Yin seal or Byakugou.
> B. Neji striking Tsunade would not allow her to use chakra 9which I conceded Yin seal or Byakugou would allow her to circumvent like Naruto did)
> C. Burning Pain is different than internal damage. Ama is hot enough to burn fire btw.
> ...



Dr. White:  She won't be able to attack through 64 palms, because it's like getting stabbed with 64 daggers in the organs.

PoW:  She has been stabbed by swords in her internal organs and continued on unphased by the pain.

Dr. White:  She had byako and yin seal giving her chakra so those feats don't count.  You can't move while getting hit with 64 palms because of the pain.

PoW:  The feats of attacking through pain count regardless because byako and yin don't effect pain tolerance and your ability to move while damaged.

Dr White:  -What you aren't realizing is that we were talking about Base Tsunade with no access to Yin seal or Byakugou.

Neji striking Tsunade would not allow her to use chakra 9which I conceded Yin seal or Byakugou would allow her to circumvent like Naruto did)

Burning Pain is different than internal damage. Ama is hot enough to burn fire btw.

I not really you understand or are properly remembering or thinking about what I'm saying.

It also seems like you view chakra level as a power level, like this is DBZ, given a lot of your comments on the subject.


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## Dr. White (Jul 16, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Dr. White:  She won't be able to attack through 64 palms, because it's like getting stabbed with 64 daggers in the organs.
> 
> PoW:  She has been stabbed by swords in her internal organs and continued on unphased by the pain.
> 
> ...


Yes that was part of my argument because she will be getting hit in parts of the body that don't really care about durability (like snapping your weak ass ACL puts top tier athletes out for months, now imagine that for every part of your body).

The other part of my argument was her inability to counterstrike while in his Hakke field. He would see it coming and strike her arms down, or simply side step or wide swing, and continue his rampage, once again I refer to Neji blocking multiple projectiles and spiders all coming at him from different angles and speeds.


what you guys are trying to do is give Tsunade feats of  moving around mortally damaged for the remainder of a fight based on her ability to temporarily stave off death. Itachi and Kimmimaro walked around and fought terminally ill for months which trumps temporarily being able to stave off death. Tsunade is also a senju which people tend to forget about.

Fact is without Yin seal, or Byakugo; she can only temporarily fight (as she shows in your "feats" before healing herself to allow her to keep going). 



> I not really you understand or are properly remembering or thinking about what I'm saying.
> 
> It also seems like you view chakra level as a power level, like this is DBZ, given a lot of your comments on the subject.


I don't quite get what you're trying to convey.

Also it kinda is. Tsunade charging Onooki with chakra allowed him to use KameKameha. Likewise Obito is out there travelling through space and time like it's nothing because of Sakura charging him.

Tsunade gaining access to mass amounts of chakra she wouldn't normally have all at once, gives her a major boost in taijutsu, physical stats, and survivability. 

Also it is cannon that having a source of chakra reboot you tenketsu allows you to fight on (like Naruto did) which is why I brought them up again/


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## trance (Jul 16, 2014)

9 pages was unnecessary. It's pretty clear that Itachi is still well beyond what Sakura can handle.


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## Icegaze (Jul 16, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your final conclusion but, I just wanted to nit-pick this.
> 
> There is no evidence that Sakura was actually using Byakugou's _regeneration_, which by all accounts seems to be a separate technique to just releasing the chakra from the seal. Interestingly, any time Tsunade has activated regeneration she has _used a hand seal beforehand_ [1] Even when she activates Byakugou regeneration rather than Sozou Saisei, she does form a _single handseal_. Releasing the seal itself apparently happens through the user's own sub-conscious or will, needing no hand seals to initiate [2] [3]
> 
> ...



I agree she will just keep regen from Amaterasu but the problem here is Amaterasu can keep burning without itachi needing to do anything however she must actively heal . Also Amaterasu is painful enough to force a bijuu to scream . it will take a while but Sakura will run out of steam she has to . The principle behind Amaterasu defeatin a summon who gets stronger on damage (cerebrus) the splitting of the dog isn't too different from Sakura healing here 

ok Atlantic storm who so happens to be doing his job when it comes to my thread


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## Ersa (Jul 16, 2014)

Yeah, cause Cerberus did such a good job of regenerating from Amaterasu.

Fire spreads which means it does well against regenerating targets, Byakugou won't do jackshit but prolong her pain.


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## Turrin (Jul 16, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> -Not when she isn't fast enough to dodge it, and Itachi can simply swallow her whole in one hit.
> -Itachi was able to catch a Juin Hebi Sasuke (who began running prior to Amaterasu being used the second time) and accurately make sure it hit the Juin wing, as to not do direct damage to sasuke.
> -Once again Itachi was about to nail Ei in the face/chest but he went V2 and avoided it.
> -Ei has no clothing on his arms, hence why moving was only spreading it up his arm. If Sakura gets hit and starts flailing around in clothing (she has multiple layers) she will only keep spreading it by fanning it around via movement. also if it makes contact with any par of her skin she is fucked unless she is gonna chop her skin off or the hurt body part.


So basically what I said 

And there should be no difference between clothing or not, because Amaterasu burns on any surface. So if the flames were spread that easily they would have spread around Ei's body more.


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## Bkprince33 (Jul 16, 2014)

E punching a rib cage enton covered susano and getting his hand on fire, isn't the same as itachi engulfing sakura's entire body with amatarasu, the fact that he had to focus on not killing sasuke with the technique shows its more then capable of engulfing sakura to the point where just removing clothing isn't going to help.


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## StickaStick (Jul 16, 2014)

therapist1 said:


> That's if she can land a hit on him, which I don't believe even Killer B could do close combat. And he would be fighting with a kunai, *I don't see why he wouldn't slit her throat or stab at her heart or major arteries?*


Killer B couldn't hit Itachi with Samehada (a big ass sword). Once he went to his Seven Swords Dance Itachi quickly retreated, but I digress. 

The bolded is easier said then done and still possess a significant risk to Itachi. When shit like this [1] doesn't make Sakura flinch, I'm not sure I'd take my chances trying to kill her with a kunai lol.



Jagger said:


> What else would they be capable of controlling a Bijuu? It's pretty much what Itachi did when he put that girl under a genjutsu and manipulating her to separate Jiraiya from Naruto back then during Part I.
> 
> Just on a larger scale since they're controlling a gigantic beast.
> 
> ...


The tablet never refers to it as a genjutsu. It's never referred to as genjutsu period. It also possesses the unique characteristic of reflecting the Sharingan in the Kyuubi's eyes once he's under its control [2]. Kishi has gone deliberately out of his way to not refer to it as genjutsu. With any luck he still plans on divulging this shit.


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## OG Appachai (Jul 16, 2014)

this is the worse thread ive seen in awhile,congrats. surprised it lasted this long


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## Ersa (Jul 16, 2014)

You shouldn't expect more from the Naruto Battledome.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 16, 2014)

Locking this by request.


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