# Proof that the long haired masked guy was Obito (Tobi).



## NW (Sep 14, 2012)

Let's take a look at LHG (Long Haired Guy).

As people have pointed out, he has the same hairstyle as Madara. Okay, well, so what? Choji has the same hair style as Madara too.

Now that that's out of the way, people are saying that LHG had the same pose Madara usually has. While this is true, it doesn't prevail over the fact that Madara's hair had already turned white before this time. There is also the fact that Obito has assumed this pose before as well. Sure, that is a color cover page, but it is also Kishi showing that Obito favors this pose at times as well. He also does it here in Chapter 404.

Now, for those of you who *still* claim that LHG is Madara, how 'bout this? Why is this important, you ask? When LHG opens his right *eye*, there is a focus on it, and Kisame says "That *eye*... shining in the darkness..." Now do you get it? *Eye*, not *eyes*. Why would there be such a focus on his right eye if he was not Obito? There would have been no need for this with Madara. There's also the fact that he wore an orange (a color that Obito favors) *one* eye-holed mask. If he were truly Madara, why show only the right eye? Kisame also seems to imply that the only eye LHG has is his right one (Yes, I'm perfectly aware of Obito's lab full of sharingan, but nothing says that he always had one implanted).

Also, Madara's hair covers his right eye, and we just saw LHG open his right eye. If we are under the assumption that Madara never cut his hair again then this wouldn't make sense. And it would be pretty pointless to just say Madara cut that piece of hair off just for lulz.

Now, for complete and utter proof that LHG is Obito. Look at this and this. 
*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				Kisame when he meets LHG said:
			
		

> I see... So you are the real "Fourth Mizukage"... You've been controlling the Fourth with that Sharingan all this time...





			
				Kisame when Obito takes off his mask said:
			
		

> ...Well that's interesting. I never would have suspected you were Tobi. I'm relieved...  It will be easier for me to do my work with you pulling the strings. Mizukage... I mean, Madara.






Kisame *recognized* Obito as the *same* person who he had seen controlling Yagura.

Now, people say that Madara simply could have used the Rinnegan to rejuvenate himself, like Nagato did. Well, Nagato simply restored his body to it's natural state, before the Gedo Mazou fucked him up. So, he was not technically old. Madara, however, was.

Even if for some reason, it is still believed that Madara got black hair again, that is still a pointless argument. Back when Obito was posing as Madara, people were perfectly willing to believe that he was an old ass 100 year old Madara, even with pitch black hair. So, why give the real Madara white hair in old age unless just to sybolize that he is very old? It would be completely useless if he really was LHG.

Now, I know people will try to argue "But Obito couldn't have been controlling Yagura and started the Bloody Mist! He was too young! " This is true, however, there is not a panel showing Obito starting the Bloody Mist. Only some showing him controlling Yagura when he met Kisame, and Obito and Kisame are the same age so Obito would have been an adult at that time.

That said, it is entirely possible for Madara to have simply started the Bloody Mist and then handed the reigns over to Obito.

Now, in case the actual proof I presented wasn't enough for you (), here's something else. I made a thread a few weeks ago . In it,  
*Spoiler*: _posted a possible explanation for all those parallels_ 





Dragonus Nesha said:


> Haku masquerades as an Oinin ('Hunter ninja').
> Obito masquerades as a Mizukage.
> 
> No wonder Kirigakure hated those with Kekkei Genkai.






* Also, in case you didn't know, Kishi likes to use horoscopes that apply  to birthdays for his characters. All of the things applied to Obito's birthday (February 10th) match Obito perfectly, and there's one that says "carrying the water". If Obito was "Mizukage" for a time, he'd, in a sense be "carrying the water". 

* Credit to  for that little horoscope tidbit.

For those who are wondering why Obito would grow his hair out to Madara length, and then cut it again, here's a possible explanation. Obito's hair just grew over time, obviously. He also used it to make his posing as Madara more convincing. Now, when he joined Akatsuki, he probably cut it because he was about to act like a total idiot. Notice how he changed his mask and outfit too.

Now, I suppose your next question will be "Well, what would be the point of Kishi having him grow his hair out that long and then cut it again? Why not just have him keep the same hairstyle?" Well, Choji's hair grew out long. This symbolized his growth. Obito growing his hair to be like Madara's could symbolize that he had become a little like Madara.

Also, the whole thing going on in Kisame's flashback, especially when he met LHG, was about the world being full of *lies*. And he remarked on this when he found out LHG was controlling Yagura. Now, what is Obito known to do? *Lie*. 

Another thing. When Obito met up with Danzou during the Five Kage Summit Arc, he said "It's been quite some time, Danzou... I haven't seen you since the Uchiha Massacre." Right there. That confirms that he was at the Uchiha Massacre. Ya wanna know who else was at the Uchiha Massacre? LHG. 

Now, as we know, LHG and Itachi met at the Uchiha Massacre. Itachi also confirmed during his battle with Sasuke that LHG was his mentor. Now, surely he would have seen LHG's Sharingan. Now, right before Itachi died, he set an Amaterasu trap in Sasuke's left eye to go off at the sight of *Obito's* Sharingan. Obito also knows the truth about Itachi; something very few know. Now, we know only only the Konoha higher ups were supposed to know. But we have know explanation of how Obito knows it. How does he know it? He knows it because he was LHG and knew all those things because he was Itachi's mentor. Also, Itachi knew to set up the Amaterasu trap to activate when Sasuke saw Obito's Sharingan because Obito was LHG, his mentor.

And here's another interesting point. Naruto's dream is to become Hokage, correct? And we all know that Obito is a huge parallel to him (same hairstyle, dream to be Hokage, same orange and blue color preference, both wore goggles, etc). Now, we also know how dark and mysterious Kirigakure is. Basically, since Obito was the "Mizukage" for a time, it's like a dark parallel to Naruto becoming Hokage (which we know he will, obviously).

Okay, now we'll get into LHG's mannerisms. When talking to Kisame, LHG told him to decide for himself whether he would trust him or not. This sounds exactly like when Obito was telling Sasuke the truth about Itachi and told him it was up to him to decide whether or not he would trust him. And you can also tell from when he talked to Itachi that he sounds exactly like how Obito talks. Madara is more rushed, arrogant, and doesn't say things how Obito does. Just read Madara's lines and compare them to Obito's. Then compare each of them to LHG's. You'll understand what I mean (hopefully).

Something else, now. Back in the beginning of August, Shounen Jump (in Japan) had a color page in the magazine which showed parts of Madara and Obito's life. On the top is Obito, while on the bottom is Madara. Oh, and guess who was shown in the part for Obito. LHG.   .

Alright. Just one more thing now. I didn't bring this up earlier as I felt it would hold the rest of what I presented back. I might as well present it now. LHG and Madara did *not* have the same hairstyle. Yeah, I know. You're probably going "What?! !" right now, but I assure you I can back up my claim. Alright, let's examine Madara's hairstyle and then take a look at LHG's. Here, we get a nice, good look at Madara. Now, let's take a look at  yet again. Now, look. Madara's hair is actually a little flat at the very top (similar to Sasuke's), and while it has a few spikes going down the left side, on the right side there are multiple black spikes of hair that are kind of "resisting" the downward flow. For LHG, his hair is completely spike at the top, and the hair goes down evenly on both sides. It should also be noted that LHG's hair is thinner than Madara's. Madara also had huge spiky puffs of hair near the top that point right (from his perspective), whereas LHG's goes downards evenly from both sides starting at the middle. Madara's hair is also more "poofy" than LHG's. LHG's hair looks just like Obito's hairstyle, except grown out (not surprising considering he *is* Obito). I'd also like to point out that for LHG, the long hair stops being spiky midway to the end. Madara's doesn't do that. And while Madara has those two huge, long bangs going down both sides of his face and end at his chest, LHG does not. I only said they had the same hairstyle earlier for convenience' sake. Choji obviously doesn't have the same hairstyle as Madara either, lol. *Bottom Line:* Same hair length =/= Same hair style.

Aaaand... I rest my case.

I hope you enjoyed.

Feel free to present your arguments for LHG not being Obito. I'll give explanations/possible explanations and add them to the OP. 

And for the people who choose "No" or "I still think he's Madara" and then just leave the thread without giving reasons why, I'll just assume that means you're butthurt and in denial.


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## mlc818 (Sep 14, 2012)

I assumed it had to be Madara because of the time period, but I guess if Obito is supposed to be about Kisame's age then it still works out.  And we obviously know from the Kyuubi attack that Obito can control bijuu, so it's not farfetched that he'd be able to control Yagura.  But like you said, this would still require Madara to have begun the Bloody Mist thing himself. (which I think works better since it fits Madara's beliefs better than Obito's)

This also explains the change in hair style and hair color, though I had assumed that the difference in "Madara's" hair style was a retcon, and the hair color was a retcon that would be explained by the darkness he was standing in.


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## NW (Sep 14, 2012)

mlc818 said:


> I assumed it had to be Madara because of the time period, but I guess if Obito is supposed to be about Kisame's age then it still works out.  And we obviously know from the Kyuubi attack that Obito can control bijuu, so it's not farfetched that he'd be able to control Yagura.  But like you said, this would still require Madara to have begun the Bloody Mist thing himself. (which I think works better since it fits Madara's beliefs better than Obito's)


Yes, it would definitely make more sense for Madara to have begun it. Madara, after all, loves war, whereas Obito hates it.



> This also explains the change in hair style and hair color, though I had assumed that the difference in "Madara's" hair style was a retcon, and the hair color was a retcon that would be explained by the darkness he was standing in.


But we clearly saw his hair color when he slaughtered the Uchiha clan and it was black.


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## Lost on Words (Sep 14, 2012)

also Ibiki was in the chunnin exams with Obito, He was seen as an adult in Kisame's flashback


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## Iruel (Sep 14, 2012)

the only reason i hesitate in regards to the manipulator of Yagura, is he's not explicitly shown to be wearing a mask, and hes covered in bandages, plus the robes he was wearing. which makes me suspect Mist "Madara" was really Madara. However, he died somepoint after that and Tobi took over, being the same masked man during the Massacre and Kyuubi attack.


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## T-Bag (Sep 14, 2012)

i dont evn kno anymore


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## NW (Sep 14, 2012)

KuroShiroZetsu said:


> the only reason i hesitate in regards to the manipulator of Yagura, is he's not explicitly shown to be wearing a mask, *and hes covered in bandages*, plus the robes he was wearing. which makes me suspect Mist "Madara" was really Madara. However, he died somepoint after that and Tobi took over, being the same masked man during the Massacre and Kyuubi attack.


Maybe from a boulder crushing him? 



T-Bag said:


> i dont evn kno anymore


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## Wax Knight (Sep 14, 2012)

I think it's Obito when he decided to get a haircut.. really anyone can go to the barbershop and get a little trim you know?


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## Arya Stark (Sep 14, 2012)

What is hesitating me that Bloody Mist incident and Obito are...so...polar opposites...Especially that close to his "death". Yeah I believe he had some sort of 180 too but that quick?


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## ch1p (Sep 14, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> [While this is true, it doesn't prevail over the fact that Madara's hair had already turned white before this time.



This is the biggest evidence imo. Short of colouring error, of course.



> There is also the fact that Obito has assumed this pose before as well.



Oh my god.  This is almost an Uchiha thing to do as Sasuke also does it on occasion. I agree it's not definitive to say A or B character should be because of it alone. Other characters have done it as well. I remember a cover with Sakura and while I don't remember when, I remember Gai also did this once. So plenty of characters strike the supermodel pose.



> There's also the fact that he wore an orange (a color that Obito favors) one eye-holed mask.



I don't remember the mask v2 ever being coloured in the manga, but I might remember it wrong.



> Now, I know people will try to argue "But Obito couldn't have been controlling Yagura and started the Bloody Mist! He was too young! " This is true, however, there is not a panel showing Obito starting the Bloody Mist. Only some showing him controlling Yagura when he met Kisame, and Obito and Kisame are the same age so Obito would have been an adult at that time.



I'm okay with this.

---

I'm okay with LHT being Obito. I just find the long hair so unnecessary then. What was the point of it? To look like Madara? Shouldn't he be wearing it like that still then? Furthermore, like moon mentions, it's hard to equate Obito with the Bloody Mist. Then again he was threatening babies not shortly after being a sweet kid...


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## NW (Sep 14, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> What is hesitating me that Bloody Mist incident and Obito are...so...polar opposites...Especially that close to his "death". Yeah I believe he had some sort of 180 too but that quick?


Well, as Ch1p said, he was willing to kill a baby, what ever did this to him sure did it good.



Ch1p said:


> Oh my god.  This is almost an Uchiha thing to do as Sasuke also does it on occasion. I agree it's not definitive to say A or B character should be because of it alone. Other characters have done it as well. I remember a cover with Sakura and while I don't remember when, I remember Gai also did this once. So plenty of characters strike the supermodel pose.


This exactly. If obito had never done this pose, it might point to Madara more, but seeing as how he has, it lessons the validity of the point trying to be made.





> I don't remember the mask v2 ever being coloured in the manga, but I might remember it wrong.


It was colored in the anime and NSUNSG. I'm not sure if Kishi had any input into it, though.



> I'm okay with LHT being Obito. I just find the long hair so unnecessary then. What was the point of it? To look like Madara? Shouldn't he be wearing it like that still then?


He probably cut it because he was about to act like a total idiot. Notice how he changed his mask and outfit too.


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## OgreMagi (Sep 14, 2012)

very good thread and logical.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 14, 2012)

I dont think its the one of Yagura, because it wasnt shown with a mask, only a shadow, his hair wasnt also necessarily there dark but it was all shadowy however I think it was Obito in the Kyuubi attack and the slaughter.


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## NW (Sep 14, 2012)

OgreMagi said:


> very good thread and logical.


Why, thank you. 



Orochibuto said:


> I dont think its the one of Yagura, because it wasnt shown with a mask, only a shadow, his hair wasnt also necessarily there dark but it was all shadowy however I think it was Obito in the Kyuubi attack and the slaughter.


Didn't we see his hair from the back though and it wasn't shadowed? Also, Madara's hair covers his right eye, and we saw LHG's right eye open. If we are under the assumption that Madara never cut his hair again then this wouldn't make sense. And it would be pretty pointless to just say Madara cut that piece of hair off just for lulz.


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## ch1p (Sep 14, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> It was colored in the anime and NSUNSG. I'm not sure if Kishi had any input into it, though.



The anime is known to be faulty on those matters. I remember, at the very least, that Rinnegan was designed wrong and furthermore, how Kishimoto shat on one of the filler arcs (the Raiga one). I haven't watched the anime in quite a while, so I'm not aware if this changed.

NSUNSG is different of course, but I'm unsure if Kishimoto would have a bigger input there that he can possibly have in the anime. The colour is non consequential, if we remember that Tobi's current mask is grey. I think that, short of helping Obito in his quest of impersonating Madara, the fact that said mask only had one eye as well is a much more important detail. Especially considering there's no known incident where Madara would have lost his eye since this moment. Before, we could speculate he had used his right eye to cast Izanagi and escape Hashirama, now we cannot say this anymore (unless he replaced it, but then why didn't he replace later, etc). Why would he lose an eye? There is no reason. So short of helping the impersonation shtick, there's no reason why Madara would wear a one eye mask.



> He probably cut it because he was about to act like a total idiot. Notice how he changed his mask and outfit too.



I'm not going to say that it's impossible for a character to grow that much hair in three years alone.

moment
matches Zetsu's forehead protector


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## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 14, 2012)

I wish I could rep you a million times. <------ This should tell you how awesome this thread is. +Reps.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 14, 2012)

But why not show the mask? This is what makes it fishy, I think no one is going to deny right now that all the MASKED man appearances are Obito's.

But here we have no mask, this mean Obito went around during Mist unmasked. I find it more likely if it was Madara. This is the only appearance where I think it wasnt Obito all others I think it was Obito.

My stance on Yagura is that it could had been either Obito or Madara, we have no confimation of either like we have in all other appearances.


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## NW (Sep 14, 2012)

Orochibuto said:
			
		

> But why not show the mask? This is what makes it fishy, I think no one is going to deny right now that all the MASKED man appearances are Obito's.
> 
> But here we have no mask, this mean Obito went around during Mist unmasked. I find it more likely if it was Madara. This is the only appearance where I think it wasnt Obito all others I think it was Obito.
> 
> My stance on Yagura is that it could had been either Obito or Madara, we have no confimation of either like we have in all other appearances.


I see what you're saying but chapters 404 and 507 confirm them to be the same person.

Besides, it's not like Obito thought anyone would figure out he was controlling Yagura and then manage to find him. He had no problem walking around without a mask.


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## dungsi27 (Sep 14, 2012)

The only things helf to raise suspicion are the hair and the pose.I guess you just beat them lol well done.


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## Godaime Kazekage (Sep 14, 2012)

In my opinion, LHG and Madara don't have the same hairstyle. Madara's hair is more poofy. LHG's hair was flat and he didn't have nearly as much as Edo Madara.


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

Godaime Kazekage said:


> In my opinion, LHG and Madara don't have the same hairstyle. Madara's hair is more poofy. LHG's hair was flat and he didn't have nearly as much as Edo Madara.


I love how everyone's actually calling him LHG. 

Good point. Although, there are also panels in which Madara's hair looks just as flat as LHG's. I guess it just depends on angles, but yeah. LHG's hair has always been flatter whereas Madara's is usually puffy but can sometimes be flat if viewed from certain angles.


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## ZacktheFlux (Sep 15, 2012)

That is clearly a left eye in the page you posted. It slants from top-right to bottom-left. Also, Mist Madara's head is tilted to the left, just as the eye is in that page.


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

ZacktheFlux said:


> That is clearly a left eye in the page you posted. It slants from top-right to bottom-left. Also, Mist Madara's head is tilted to the left, just as the eye is in that page.





That is obviously his right eye.


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## ZacktheFlux (Sep 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> That is obviously his right eye.



Yes, because as we all know, people in the Narutoverse look like this.


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

ZacktheFlux said:


> Yes, because as we all know, people in the Narutoverse look like this.


The fuck? 

Okay......

THE EYE IS SLANTING FROM TOP RIGHT TO BOTTOM LEFT. IN THE PICTURE YOU ARE TRYING TO USE TO PROVE YOUR POINT, HIS RIGHT EYE GOES FROM BOTTOM RIGHT TO TOP LEFT. IT IS HIS RIGHT EYE THAT HE IS OPENING IN THE PAGE I POSTED.

*sigh*


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## ZacktheFlux (Sep 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> The eye starts from the top right and goes downward to the left. It is a right eye.



Yes, and when you're facing someone their left eye goes from top-right to bottom-left. 

Do you get confused around mirrors or when you interact with others?


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## lain2501 (Sep 15, 2012)

It's Obito because Itachi triggered Amaterasu on Obito's sharingan

It's Obito because at that time Madara (assuming he was still alive) had white hair :/


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

ZacktheFlux said:


> Yes, and when you're facing someone their left eye goes from top-right to bottom-left.


YES!!!! I'm talking about from OBITO'S point of view. The eye is starting from HIS top right to HIS bottom left. But from HIS point of view on YOUR picture, his eye would be going from HIS top left to HIS bottom right. Get it now?



> Do you get confused around mirrors or when you interact with others?


I was about to ask you the same thing. You are denying common sense just to keep holding on to the ludicrous idea that THG was Madara. You are illogical.



			
				lain2501 said:
			
		

> It's Obito because Itachi triggered Amaterasu on Obito's sharingan
> 
> It's Obito because at that time Madara (assuming he was still alive) had white hair :/


Thank you for the common sense. It's nice to see it's actually still fairly common.


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## ZacktheFlux (Sep 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> YES!!!! I'm talking about from OBITO'S point of view. The eye is starting from HIS top right to HIS bottom left. But from HIS point of view on YOUR picture, his eye would be going from HIS top left to HIS bottom right. Get it now?
> 
> I was about to ask you the same thing. You are denying common sense just to keep holding on to the ludicrous idea that THG was Madara. You are illogical.



I am illogical? How can we see Obito/Mist Madara's eye in-panel from _his_ perspective? Lmao.



The eye picture you posted of Mist Madara is from *Kisame/the audience's perspective*. Therefore, seeing as the eye slants from top-right to bottom-left while facing us, it is a *left eye if we turn and look from Mist Madara's perspective*.


Are you being intentionally dense? The picture I posted was something I *Photoshopped* to laugh at the fact that you posited that an eye slanting from top-right to bottom-left from the audience's view is a right eye, of which you are incorrect.

The actual picture:


Left eye is the Rinnegan. Top-right to bottom-left. 

The picture you posted:


Top-right to bottom-left. Sharingan eye in the shadows is a left eye.


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

ZacktheFlux said:


> I am illogical? How can we see Obito's eye in-panel from _his_ perspective? Lmao.


I don't quite think you understood what I meant.



> The eye picture you posted of Obito is from *Kisame/the audience's perspective*. Therefore, seeing as the eye slants from top-right to bottom-left while facing us, it is a *left eye if we turn and look from Obito's perspective*.


How old are you? Do you know your lefts from your rights? While facing us, the eye is slanting from TOP LEFT to BOTTOM RIGHT. Therefore, from Obito's perspective, it is going from TOP RIGHT to BOTTOM LEFT. Meaning it's his right eye. Right and Left. Google is your friend.

But if you're just too lazy to Google it, take a look at this: 




> Are you being intentionally dense? The picture I posted was something I *Photoshopped* to laugh at the fact that you posited that an eye slanting from top-right to bottom-left from the audience's view is a right eye, of which you are incorrect.
> 
> The actual picture:
> 
> ...


I'm perfectly aware that was photoshopped. Again, you fail to see my point.



> Top-left to bottom-right. Sharingan eye in the shadows is his right eye.


Fixed.


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## Eliyua23 (Sep 15, 2012)

I think thesis very plausible


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

Eliyua23 said:


> I think thesis very plausible


Not plausible. Proven.


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## ZacktheFlux (Sep 15, 2012)

Because apparently you are too dense to figure it out without pictures.


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## ch1p (Sep 15, 2012)

^What the, how can you even know that's the left eye? It could be both.

---

My pc disc is like a black hole. Everything goes in it and never escapes. The pity is that it's all disorganised. Then things click when I'm least expecting.

The anime, the Storm Generations and now a calendar all have the orange mask.


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 15, 2012)

Tobi doin da pose, cuz he swaggajackin Madara. Symbolically Tobi was shown doing the pose, because his Identity was linked to Uchiha Madara, he was his successor/representative. The Hair Tells No Lies. Tobito was proven by it & using the same method, we can deduce that LHT is indeed Madara. LHT had different feet, bandages & made prominent use of the Hand on Hip. LHT was never silly & was always ominous. I think LHT/Living Madara may have given Nagato his Original set of MS eyes. But I'll speak on that another time.

My gut is telling me that Long Haired Tobi & Short Haired Tobi are not one & the same. Obito gave his eye to his "Brother" so of course Madara who has his Borther's eyes can relate. I say we wait a bit longer before finalizing the consensus on there only being 1 Masked Man.


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

ZacktheFlux said:


> Because apparently you are too dense to figure it out without pictures.


I..  don;t even... 

HOW?!?!?! Are you looking at everything upside down?

A is pointing Up while B is pointing DOWN. Btw, we were seeing him standing from an angle, so why are you saying he was tilting left? You can't be sure. Btw, tilting your head left 0.0000000000000000000001 cm isn't going to cause your left eye to look like that when being opened.

Again, he was opening his eye from OUR perspective: 



Ch1p said:


> My pc disc is like a black hole. Everything goes in it and never escapes. The pity is that it's all disorganised. Then things click when I'm least expecting.
> 
> The anime, the Storm Generations and now a calendar all have the orange mask.


Good find.



AlphaReaver said:


> LHG had different feet


What? You examined his feet? 



> LHG was never silly & was always ominous.


That's not surprising seeing as how all of LHG's appearances were before he entered Akatsuki under the alias "Tobi". 




> I say we wait a bit longer before finalizing the consensus on there only being 1 Masked Man.


It's already been proven that LHG is Obito.

I don't see why people are saying that there are two masked men because "ZOMFG! THE HAIR IS DIFFERENT! :amazed"....


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## Rick Hunter (Sep 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111, your patience when dealing with people who don't understand yet the concept of left and right is godly, I respect that.

Good thread. Before integrating akatsuki, Obito is replacing Madara thus the long hair and seriousness, and once he enters it, he cuts his hair and acts goofy to fool everyone.


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

Rick Hunter said:


> ObitoUchiha111, your patience when dealing with people who don't understand yet the concept of left and right is godly, I respect that.


Trust me, it ain't easy... 



> Good thread. Before integrating akatsuki, Obito is replacing Madara thus the long hair and seriousness, and once he enters it, he cuts his hair and acts goofy to fool everyone.


Pretty much this.


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## Talis (Sep 15, 2012)

ZacktheFlux said:


> Because apparently you are too dense to figure it out without pictures.


wt.f. 
Fail post of the month?


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## Godaime Kazekage (Sep 15, 2012)

ZacktheFlux said:


> Because apparently you are too dense to figure it out without pictures.



It's his right eye, dude. I understand what your saying, but you're grossly overcomplicating it.


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## kidloco (Sep 15, 2012)

who cares if was obito, or a old man who need viagra or shit..., he is a filler villane right now, i bet the real villane will come in the end and is not saygay or uchiha.... (they will died very soon)

Imaginate the ultimate villane is Hinata who always hate the village and her clan and only was like that to under her true plot, kill everyone


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

kidloco said:


> who cares if was obito, or a old man who need viagra or shit..., *he is a filler villane right now*


So, the main villain who is the former best friend of a main character and a huge parallel to THE main characger, and someone who's been behind everything for the majority of the series... is filler.

I think you need to look at the definition again because Obito is not filler.



> , i bet the real villane will come in the end and is not saygay or uchiha.... (they will died very soon)


So, I take it you're just some butthurt uchiha hater who doesn't like threads involving uchihas being made, so every time there is one, you go onto it and bash the shit out of them. 

Nest time, try to stay on topic instead of bashing on sight.



> Imaginate the ultimate villane is Hinata who always hate the village and her clan and only was like that to under her true plot, kill everyone




Also, I'd like to suggest taking English classes. it took my a few tries to figure out what you were saying.


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## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 15, 2012)

ZacktheFlux said:


> [sp][/sp]



lol what is this


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## UltimateDeadpool (Sep 15, 2012)

"Long-Haired Mask Guy" had black hair, Madara had gray hair. It was Obito.


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## Shadow050 (Sep 15, 2012)

Ok... but now... what about the fact that Tobi says to Kisame

"You were the closest to *him*"
_(the translations i saw before the one you posted, say "him" instead of "me")
_

wouldn't "him" be Madara himself? ...which would imply that Kisame met Madara at that time?

and Kisame recognizing Obito's face would make sense if kisame was working with Madara since that time he met the masked man. him recognizing Obito's face doesn't mean that he was the masked man from that time. again, this actually works to imply that the masked man (MM from now on) was actually madara. also, Kisame's other words "I feel comfortable knowing that you are running the show" (liberty taken)... would suggest that he's _comfortable_ with Obito (madara's apprentice) running the show. 



also... henge works wonders for hair not being white/grey or w/e it might have been. "might" because if we notice, Madara isn't exactly in color in that picture... check out his sharingan... is white.. .surely you're not suggesting that he got so old his sharingan lost it's color, are you?


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## Shadow050 (Sep 15, 2012)

HeLLzRoLLinG said:


> lol what is this



it actually makes sense when you think about it... could still be off, but it DOES make some sense.



UltimateDeadpool said:


> "Long-Haired Mask Guy" had black hair, Madara had gray hair. It was Obito.



But... would Obito's suddenly hair be that long that quickly?

Sure Henge could give him madara's hair, but it also would allow madara to change the appearance of his hair's color.

also... we can't be 100% sure about the color of Madara's hair IMO. look at his sharingan... unless we assume that his sharingan turned white and or lost it's color... the color of his sharingan is off.  withthat said, his hair could be as well.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> -snip-



I just want to say that this stuff isn't "PROOF" which you repeated several times in the OP... it's EVIDENCE and though there may be a thin line, there's a big difference.

Obito may very well have been the long haired man... but the inconsistencies are very blatant, and he could just as easily, if not more easily have been Madara himself.

*1st*
the earliest sign of the masked man that i recall is when naruto was born...this one had short hair, and is supposed to be Obito. ok... w/e... fine. the hair fits too.
*2nd*
the next time we see him, chronologically, i believe... is when he presents himself to Kisame. this is LHMM (long hair masked man  i like mine better).. he's standing in shadow... therefore, even if his hair's color has faded, it could logically still appear to be black. there's no Kamui shenanigans...so it's harder to believe it's the same tobi.
*3rd*
uchiha massacre... itachi gets his help from LHMM. if i remember correctly, it's again, shadowy when we get a look at him and itachi facing each other. I don't think itachi would call the MM madara without being sure it was him. this VERY DIFFERENT from Minto asking and suggesting that the SHMM might have been Madara.... Itachi outright says that it's Madara. so perhaps the MM that helped with the massacre (or rather the person itachi sought for help) was acually madara himself. the grudge against the uchiha also fits. sure, Obito could have inherited the grudge from madara, but still... it fits and makes sense for it to be madara himself. i'd like to think itachi - having also been a student of madara/MM... would have seen his real face, like kisame did.
*4th*
with the new opening in akatsuki... the MM has a name... "Tobi"... who is often seen with Zetsu. the mask is now different.... the orange one.

_rest is history_

so we can see that LHMM can still make sense for Madara to actually be him. we can be certain that Madara himelf is the one behind SOOOO much of the shit that has occured in the shinobi world. we know that it was actually madara who brought zetsu about and such too. basically, he set up so much of this. and he also could have been more of an active participant as the MM than people seem willing to believe.


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

Shadow050 said:


> Ok... but now... what about the fact that Tobi says to Kisame
> 
> "You were the closest to *him*"
> _(the translations i saw before the one you posted, say "him" instead of "me")
> ...


Huh? it was probably a translation error. But I guess we'll need the Viz translation to know for sure. 



> and Kisame recognizing Obito's face would make sense if kisame was working with Madara since that time he met the masked man. him recognizing Obito's face doesn't mean that he was the masked man from that time. again, this actually works to imply that the masked man (MM from now on) was actually madara.


I don't see the reason to call him the Mizukage first then. 



> also, Kisame's other words "I feel comfortable knowing that you are running the show" (liberty taken)... would suggest that he's _comfortable_ with Obito (madara's apprentice) running the show.


It also works with hi feeling comfortable that the guy he met from that time was pulling the strings.





> also... henge works wonders for hair not being white/grey or w/e it might have been. "might" because if we notice, Madara isn't exactly in color in that picture... check out his sharingan... is white.. .surely you're not suggesting that he got so old his sharingan lost it's color, are you?


This is a manga... it's in black and white... what do you mean his sharingan lost it's color?!  Besides, Obito;s hair was correctly colored black and Madara's hair was white in both panels. Kishi even showed the thickness of the hair with those lines. It's not logical for him to do all that in both panels if it's an art error. if it was, he would have noticed too.



Shadow050 said:


> But... would Obito's suddenly hair be that long that quickly?


Look at Choji.



> Sure Henge could give him madara's hair, but it also would allow madara to change the appearance of his hair's color.


Yes, but, as I outlined in the OP, there'd be no reason for Kishi to even give old Madara white hair if he was LHG. Besides, there'd be no reason for Madara to use a henge.



			
				Shadow050 said:
			
		

> I just want to say that this stuff isn't "PROOF" which you repeated several times in the OP... it's EVIDENCE and though there may be a thin line, there's a big difference.


Kisame's statements are proof. There are also other things that prove it.



> Obito may very well have been the long haired man... but the inconsistencies are very blatant, and he could just as easily, if not more easily have been Madara himself.


Like what? There are no inconsistencies for Obito being LHG. And it couldn't have been Madara.




> the next time we see him, chronologically, i believe... is when he presents himself to Kisame. this is LHMM (long hair masked man  i like mine better).. he's standing in shadow... therefore, even if his hair's color has faded, it could logically still appear to be black. there's no Kamui shenanigans...so it's harder to believe it's the same tobi.


Yagura was standing right next to LHG and we saw his hair perfectly fine. And he didn't use Kamui because he was just standing and talking. 




> uchiha massacre... itachi gets his help from LHMM. if i remember correctly, it's again, shadowy when we get a look at him and itachi facing each other.


 We saw him fully. Are you seriously suggesting that the rest of him would be in perfect light and perfectly seeable except his hair? Damn, must be convenient. 



> I don't think itachi would call the MM madara without being sure it was him. this VERY DIFFERENT from Minto asking and suggesting that the SHMM might have been Madara.... Itachi outright says that it's Madara. so perhaps the MM that helped with the massacre (or rather the person itachi sought for help) was acually madara himself. the grudge against the uchiha also fits. sure, Obito could have inherited the grudge from madara, but still... it fits and makes sense for it to be madara himself. i'd like to think itachi - having also been a student of madara/MM... would have seen his real face, like kisame did.


How 'bout how Itachi set an amaterasu to go off at the sight of OBITO's EYE?


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## Shadow050 (Sep 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> It also works with hi feeling comfortable that the guy he met from that time was pulling the strings.



indeed... that's why there's still a debate going... and nothing is "proof", but rather evidence to support an argument/belief.

either is possible.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> This is a manga... it's in black and white... what do you mean his sharingan lost it's color?!  Besides, Obito;s hair was correctly colored black and Madara's hair was white in both panels. Kishi even showed the thickness of the hair with those lines. It's not logical for him to do all that in both panels if it's an art error. if it was, he would have noticed too.



compare the color of his sharingan to other times. hell, compare it Obito's on the page. they're colored nearly as differently as their respective hair colors. are you saying that madara's eye was no longer red like Obito's too?

my point with this is that it still doesn't prove anything. there's ways to get around the hair color appearance 



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Look at Choji.



we can see that long hair runs in the Chouji's family. and his hair grew that long in about 3 years.

but i guess that doesn't really matter since even more time could have passed between seeing SHMM and LHMM for the firs time. 

so yeah... so Obito could have grew it and then cut it... or he too could have used henge to make his hair longer... i guess it's sill the case that nothing is proven.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Yes, but, as I outlined in the OP, there'd be no reason for Kishi to even give old Madara white hair if he was LHG. Besides, there'd be no reason for Madara to use a henge.



reson for kish idrawing him that old looking surely isn't to say 'hey everyone, LHMM wasn't madara"

that surely wasn't the idea behind it. he drew him that way because it made much more sense for him to look that damn old. not only was he at least late 70's... he was also worn from battle for the better part of his life... he should look old as dirt by that time.

there is a reason for madara to use henge... so he doesn't appear old, decrepit and possibly weak. he might allow his apprentice to see his true figure, but to others, he might not. similar to tsunade in some ways. though the motivation is kinda different. either way tsunade's apprentices have seen her true figure too.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Kisame's statements are proof. There are also other things that prove it.



they're not PROOF and I already explained why. IF it was PROOF, no one could so easily present way in which contradict your claim - and do so with sound logic. don't get me wrong, you claim has sound logic too. i'm just saying that it's not "proof"... it will probably be more contingent on the actually japanese that was used in that scene. him vs me is kind huge lol. i know some japanese and i've neber heard of a word that would present such confusion.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Like what? There are no inconsistencies for Obito being LHG. And it couldn't have been Madara.



ok... you must have stopped being reasonable then. i've presented ways already. your argument basically is that it LHMM couldn't have been madara simply because his hair wasn't black (you say white, but it could easily be grey judging by the coloring alone). 

there are counter arguments to this that you're bypassing, and then sticking to your claim. since you don't and can't disprove the counter arguments... the inconsistencies remain and it remains that it STILL COULD BE MADARA himself.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Yagura was standing right next to LHG and we saw his hair perfectly fine. And he didn't use Kamui because he was just standing and talking.



i know... what's the reason for mentioning this? my mention actually had a reason y'know. the explanation you present was very clear within the manga itself. the only reason i mentioned this tidbit is because we can be inclined to think it was actually Obito whenever we saw the MM use kamui shenanigans. me mentioning that he doesn't do it is to say we can't be sure it's Obito since it's not used, like we see him at other times and are all comfortable saying "yes, that was obito".



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> We saw him fully. Are you seriously suggesting that the rest of him would be in perfect light and perfectly seeable except his hair? Damn, must be convenient.



we see them standing somewhere... i believe it was a forrest.. .a place that can be FILLED within shadows and shit. if you can't be reasonable enough to admit such things, why even post? i'm not doing anything out of convenience. i'm trying to make sense of this just like you. if anything, you're the one taking the convenient route.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> How 'bout how Itachi set an amaterasu to go off at the sight of OBITO's EYE?



and you think the real madara would have died and itachi wouldn't have know that Obito took his place?

if itachi worked with the real madara he would have logically met obito too. hell, they were living together and itachi found "madara"... 

in a way... it would make even more sense as to why the amaterasu failed, no? if itachi learned/worked with the real madara he might have learned things about and from him, but not necessarily what Obito, madara's other apprentice, and Itachi's "senpai" of sorts, could do. that way he would have retained "some secrets" from itachi. because one is inclined to wonder how itachi wouldn't know that would fail on Tobi after all... more assumed desperation... but what if it wasn't merely desperation, but ignorance of the ability?

anyway... i'm sure you'll continue to act like there's absolutely no way LHMM could be Madara... you've made that clear. i'm sure you'll ignore/deny other things i mentioned that might actually make it make more sense. you're clearly on an agenda here. i don't blame you though. you may very well be right. but i'm not gonna get on the back and forth like thta because i don't have a strong opinion on this actually... and have already invest more time here in a back and forth than i intended to.

we'll hopefully get to really find out soon. 

*shrugs*


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## NW (Sep 15, 2012)

Shadow050 said:


> reson for kish idrawing him that old looking surely isn't to say 'hey everyone, LHMM wasn't madara"
> 
> that surely wasn't the idea behind it. he drew him that way because it made much more sense for him to look that damn old. not only was he at least late 70's... he was also worn from battle for the better part of his life... he should look old as dirt by that time.
> 
> there is a reason for madara to use henge... so he doesn't appear old, decrepit and possibly weak. he might allow his apprentice to see his true figure, but to others, he might not. similar to tsunade in some ways. though the motivation is kinda different. either way tsunade's apprentices have seen her true figure too.


My point was, if we were to believe that 30 year old Obito was 100 year old Madara, when he didn't even look old and had pitch black hair, what would be the point of giving the real Madara white hair if not just to signify that he was old? He could have easily given him black hair, and Kishi knows this, and no one would have complained.

The only reason people are saying LGH was Madara was because of the hairstyle, which is ridiculous.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Sep 15, 2012)

Shadow050 said:


> But... would Obito's suddenly hair be that long that quickly?
> 
> Sure Henge could give him madara's hair, but it also would allow madara to change the appearance of his hair's color.
> 
> also... we can't be 100% sure about the color of Madara's hair IMO. look at his sharingan... unless we assume that his sharingan turned white and or lost it's color... the color of his sharingan is off.  withthat said, his hair could be as well.



How would Obito grow an entire foot that quickly? 

When hair is dark, Kishimoto colors it black. When hair is light, such as in the case of an old wrinkly Madara, that means it's colored white. Have you ever seen a Sharingan colored black? No.


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## Shadow050 (Sep 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> My point was, if we were to believe that 30 year old Obito was 100 year old Madara, when he didn't even look old and had pitch black hair, what would be the point of giving the real Madara white hair if not just to signify that he was old? He could have easily given him black hair, and Kishi knows this, and no one would have complained.
> 
> The only reason people are saying LGH was Madara was because of the hairstyle, which is ridiculous.



this should be may last reply on this... i intended for the previous one to be, but this was here when i finished editing.

the point is because he actually was old as hell.

yes, people would have believed it was him regardless of the color of the hair... that's true. but ultimately... at the end... we still have no real answer on this. the question about just remains the same. 

and the only reason people thought that Tobi was Obito initially was because of the hair too. just as ridiculous... yet was still "correct", no?

basically... right now you're saying it can't be him because his hair isn't black... you should be able to see how equally ridiculous that is... especially given how easily these ninja can change appearance...


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## Shadow050 (Sep 15, 2012)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> How would Obito grow an entire foot that quickly?
> 
> When hair is dark, Kishimoto colors it black. When hair is light, such as in the case of an old wrinkly Madara, that means it's colored white. Have you ever seen a Sharingan colored black? No.



not black... but it could have been draw dark... or darker than the whites of his eyes... just like Obito's eye on that same page - and like we've seen done various times.

i know that the hair is being impled to be lighter but there's ways it could have looked darker at other times given the settings and kishi does weird crap with color at times. this wouldn't be the first. 

i just think people are putitng too much emphasis on his hair in the first place, to make a claim about a totally different event where the identity isnt 100% know and it would make more sense for it to be madara instead of Obito - especially sine ninja can change appearance so easily.

to be honest i really think it's because at those points, it wasn't decidedly tobi is obito, like so many believe. i thin kthe decision was made kinda recently - which is THE reason so much hasn't made sense about Tobi being Obito.. and now things have to be tailor to make it make more sense.


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## BringerOfCarnage (Sep 15, 2012)

Let's just wait for the entire story..... Logic isn't exactly the order of the day when it comes to Tobito (not until we get some answers anyway )


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## ch1p (Sep 16, 2012)

Hair colour is a sticky business sometimes. Karin / Nagato were coloured solid black while Kushina had a grey shade. However, they all have red hair. Brown is sometimes coloured black or white, depending (Gaara is white although he isn't the best of examples, Kiba is black). I do remember LHT to have pitch dark hair and Madara in 601 having "white" hair, even in the raw version.


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

OP's logic is a disgrace to OG Tobito Theory. Tobito Theory's Formula of Hair/Demeanor Accurately Deduced SHT was Obito, why deny now that LHT was Madara? Having 2 Tobis that have 2 different personalities, knowledge, age & abilities solve any & all issues that could possibly be considered plotholes. We on the Tobito side have already won. But even still, we do not possess all of the answers. To arrogantly close our minds to all possibilities will make us no different from those who have disagreed with us & mocked us in the past. As obvious as it was that Tobi was Obito, is as Obvious as it now is that LHT is Madara. Tobito was jus the begininng to truly unravelling the mystery of the Origin & Management of the Akatsuki. Like I said. Don't assume, cuz then you'll be on the wrong side of the fence when everything is all said & done


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## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> OP's logic is a disgrace to OG Tobito Theory. Tobito Theory's Formula of Hair/Demeanor Accurately Deduced SHT was Obito, why deny now that LHT was Madara? Having 2 Tobis that have 2 different personalities, knowledge, age & abilities solve any & all issues that could possibly be considered plotholes. We on the Tobito side have already won. But even still, we do not possess all of the answers. To arrogantly close our minds to all possibilities will make us no different from those who have disagreed with us & mocked us in the past. As obvious as it was that Tobi was Obito, is as Obvious as it now is that LHT is Madara. Tobito was jus the begininng to truly unravelling the mystery of the Origin & Management of the Akatsuki. Like I said. Don't assume, cuz then you'll be on the wrong side of the fence when everything is all said & done



Obviously you didn't read the OP or latest chapter.


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 16, 2012)

> OP's logic is a disgrace to OG Tobito Theory. Tobito Theory's Formula of Hair/Demeanor Accurately Deduced SHT was Obito, why deny now that LHT was Madara? Having 2 Tobis that have 2 different personalities, knowledge, age & abilities solve any & all issues that could possibly be considered plotholes. We on the Tobito side have already won. But even still, we do not possess all of the answers. To arrogantly close our minds to all possibilities will make us no different from those who have disagreed with us & mocked us in the past. As obvious as it was that Tobi was Obito, is as Obvious as it now is that LHT is Madara. Tobito was jus the begininng to truly unravelling the mystery of the Origin & Management of the Akatsuki. Like I said. Don't assume, cuz then you'll be on the wrong side of the fence when everything is all said & done



This is the smartest post I've seen all week.


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## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> OP's logic is a disgrace to OG Tobito Theory. Tobito Theory's Formula of Hair/Demeanor Accurately Deduced SHT was Obito, why deny now that LHT was Madara?




If you thought Tobi was Obito just because they had the same hairstyle, then....  There was MUCH more pointing to it than that. I was a huge supporter of Tobito. Why? Certainly not because of hair. The OP isn't a disgrace to anything.



> Having 2 Tobis that have 2 different personalities,


Different personalities? Obito's idiot act was a cover. That's not how he really is.



> We on the Tobito side have already won. But even still, we do not possess all of the answers. To arrogantly close our minds to all possibilities will make us no different from those who have disagreed with us & mocked us in the past. As obvious as it was that Tobi was Obito, is as Obvious as it now is that LHT is Madara. Tobito was jus the begininng to truly unravelling the mystery of the Origin & Management of the Akatsuki. Like I said. Don't assume, cuz then you'll be on the wrong side of the fence when everything is all said & done


How am I making assumptions when I have proof?

All you have to say LHG was Madara is the hairstyle. And their hair isn't even the same color. If just the style of the hair is enough for you, then you'd might as well just say that Obito is Naruto.

if LHG's hair was short people wouldn't even be speculating him to be a different person. 

Your ENTIRE theory lies on hairstyle... their hair isn't even the same color.


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## Talis (Sep 16, 2012)

Shadow050 said:


> Ok... but now... what about the fact that Tobi says to Kisame
> 
> "You were the closest to *him*"
> _(the translations i saw before the one you posted, say "him" instead of "me")
> _


Yeah, and this is one of the reasons why Madara is going turned out to be the long haired masked man.

1: Nearly everyone believed that Tobi was Madara so it doesn't surprise me if they just changed the one of the important detail ''him'' to ''me'' after all Tobi was going as Madara around.

2: When people always barck about something being a translation error without knowing shit it always turns out to be the opposite.


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## Jonesy161 (Sep 16, 2012)

Well thought out, I like the effort. Also, did you post this on different website forum today? I can PM you a link of it.


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

So you guys are really gonna act like we've never seen a Rinnegan User with Whitened Hair?? & You're gonna act like we've never seen a Rinnegan User Restore His Own Vitality & Hair Color?? Let's be reasonable. These things were shown to us by Kishimoto for a reason. Heavy Rinnegan Use = Lack of Lifeforce = Loss of Hair Color, Preta Path Use = Replenishment of Chakra, Chakra = Spiritual Energy/Spirit, Stamina/Physical Energy, Life Force. When your Chakra Reserve is depleted, You activate Life Force usage. It's like those rpgs where you cast using HP instead of MP. Why you think ninja like Sasuke are driven by Heart when depleted of chakra? That Willpower is what Konohans call Will Of Fire.


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## fe10 (Sep 16, 2012)

He does look like obito.  I think the person itachi met was obito.

Tobito eye hax and itachi ilusion hax = clan wipe.


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## Jonesy161 (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> So you guys are really gonna act like we've never seen a Rinnegan User with Whitened Hair?? & You're gonna act like we've never seen a Rinnegan User Restore His Own Vitality & Hair Color?? Let's be reasonable. These things were shown to us by Kishimoto for a reason. Heavy Rinnegan Use = Lack of Lifeforce = Loss of Hair Color, Preta Path Use = Replenishment of Chakra, Chakra = Spiritual Energy/Spirit, Stamina/Physical Energy, Life Force. When your Chakra Reserve is depleted, You activate Life Force usage. It's like those rpgs where you cast using HP instead of MP. Why you think ninja like Sasuke are driven by Heart when depleted of chakra? That Willpower is what Konohans call Will Of Fire.



Nagato was still young at that point compared to Madara. Nagato was around 40 years old while Madara was 90+. Madara can't restore vitality like Nagato can due to the fact of their ages. If Nagato was 90+ too, he wouldn't have been able to restore the color of his hair and restore muscle mass.


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

Jonesy161 said:


> Nagato was still young at that point compared to Madara. Nagato was around 40 years old while Madara was 90+. Madara can't restore vitality like Nagato can due to the fact of their ages. If Nagato was 90+ too, he wouldn't have been able to restore the color of his hair and restore muscle mass.



How you know that? I know people who get gray hair before they hit 30. & the fact that he restored muscle mass, shows it is some type of Life Force thingy as well. It seems a bit similar to how Juugo restored himself. Flesh has been connected to Lifeforce/Spirit for a while now. ET requires dna, Oro was brought back by the flesh of someone who ingested Oro. Shodai flesh/cells/dna allows for extended/increased vitality. Manga show support for what I am saying. Let's look at things from Kishi's perspective. He's showing us these things, because he thinks that in his manga they should be possible.


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## Iruel (Sep 16, 2012)

[sp=Tag yo' shit]
[/sp]

I sense a resemblance here...


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> What? No. NF for life!
> 
> I don't give a shit what YOU think the "founding evidence" for Tobito was. I supported it for much stronger and logical reasons. The parallels. Kishi's writing style, Japanese mythology, the sharingan abilities, Kakashi's unresolved development, and much more. The hair was only icing on the cake.
> 
> ...



Let's not Bullshit. I witnessed the Tobito Theory's Origin. If you "know" Kishi's writing style then you know Hair & Identity go hand in hand. WHY else do you think Sasuke's CS2 Hair resembled Uchiha Madara? & Then we see that Kyuubi compares Sasuke to Uchiha Madara. A person's Hair is Symbolic to them. "New" Sakura, New Hair. Naruto = Minato's Son, Blonde Spiky Shit. Trademark Uzumaki Red Hair lead to All Red Heads = Uzumaki, then we got Karin Uzumaki lol. Tobi & Obito same hair = Tobito. Now LHT & Madara are gonna be proven to be the same. Mythology wise people were saying Tobi = 10tails or Tobi Danzo, or even Izuna, but sure whatever you say. Like I said, this fills in any Age/Time paradoxes & qualms that any logical individual would have with this revelation. I for one do not want to be right bad enough that this manga suffers. Like I said Tobito was based off hair. Those who understand Kishi just KNEW that it was Obito & THEN the proof presented itself. So like I said, some of us KNOW that the Long Haired Tobi is indeed Madara. Don't be so quick to close the book, before the author is finished writing it.


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## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> If you "know" Kishi's writing style then you know Hair & Identity go hand in hand. WHY else do you think Sasuke's CS2 Hair resembled Uchiha Madara?


So you're saying that Sasuke is Uchiha Madara? 



> & Then we see that Kyuubi compares Sasuke to Uchiha Madara.


Yes, because he is very similar to him.



> "New" Sakura, New Hair.


I guess that means there are two Sakuras then. OMG. 



> Naruto = Minato's Son, Blonde Spiky Shit.


Naruto is his own father?  



> Trademark Uzumaki Red Hair lead to All Red Heads = Uzumaki


I guess Tayuya and Gaara are Uzumakis then. 



> then we got Karin Uzumaki lol.


It was obvious that she was an Uzumaki anyway. But the hair was not the only thing previously pointing to it. 



> Tobi & Obito same hair = Tobito.


For the last time, hair is irrelevant in all this.



> Now LHT & Madara are gonna be proven to be the same.


Yeah, you keep thinking that. Co e back once you're forced to accept you're wrong, k?



> Mythology wise people were saying Tobi = 10tails or Tobi Danzo, or even Izuna, but sure whatever you say.


There was much more Japanese mythology to support Tobi being Obito. 



> I for one do not want to be right bad enough that this manga suffers.


Neither do I. And someone growing their damn HAIR out would not make this manga suffer. 



> Like I said Tobito was based off hair.


No it wasn't. get your facts straight. There were much more solid and logical reasons to believe it. 



> Those who understand Kishi just KNEW that it was Obito & THEN the proof presented itself.


Yes. He planned Tobi to be Obito from the start. That is true. But he provided MUCH more before the reveal other than hair. 



> So like I said, some of us KNOW that the Long Haired Tobi is indeed Madara.


Or rather, you THINK you know.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> So you're saying that Sasuke is Uchiha Madara?
> 
> Yes, because he is very similar to him.
> 
> ...



If I'm wrong I will admit it. Right now, you honestly appear as nothing more than a hypocritical noob who is closeminded as fuck. When Kishi shows you the truth, I hope you can be man enough admit it. I'll be waiting


----------



## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:
			
		

> If I'm wrong I will admit it.


Great.



> Right now, you honestly appear as nothing more than a hypocritical noob who is closeminded as fuck.


How am I being a hypocrite? DO you even know what that word means? And how am I being closeminded when LHG has been proven to be Obito? 



> When Kishi shows you the truth, I hope you can be man enough admit it. I'll be waiting


he only one that'll be admitting he was wrong is you. Anyways, even if he really was Madara (which he's not) I'll admit I was wrong. *Tobi* is Obito. That's good enough for me. I don't give a shit who the long haired masked man is. Whether he's Tobi or Madara, I'd be fine with either.

But as I said, it's been proven he's Obito. I've added some more to the OP. You should re-read it.


----------



## Kiss (Sep 16, 2012)

I approve.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 16, 2012)

> LHG has been proven to be Obito?



Obito told everyone he was Madara. The databook said it too. I think that was "proven" too 




> he only one that'll be admitting he was wrong is you. Anyways, even if he really was Madara (which he's not) I'll admit I was wrong. *Tobi is Obito. That's good enough for me*. *I don't give a shit who the long haired masked man is. Whether he's Tobi or Madara, I'd be fine with either.*



Oh the damage control is already beginning? I smell doubt! (and you're lying, if you didn't care you wouldn't have made this thread  )




> If I'm wrong I will admit it. Right now, you honestly appear as nothing more than a *hypocritical noob who is closeminded as fuck*. When Kishi shows you the truth, I hope you can be man enough admit it. I'll be waiting



This. I believe ObitoUchiha111 will have to learn this the hard way  (lol I can already see it, after the reveal he's gonna be like "IMPOSSIBLE" starting rage threads, people calling HIM buthurt...oh karma  )


----------



## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

Kiss said:
			
		

> I approve.


Good to know. 



			
				MonkeyDLuffy said:
			
		

> This. I believe ObitoUchiha111 will have to learn this the hard way  (lol I can already see it, after the reveal he's gonna be like "IMPOSSIBLE" starting rage threads, people calling HIM buthurt...oh karma  )


Like I said, if I'm wrong about who the long haired guy is, i won't give a shit. if Tobi wasn't Obito though, I.... actually might have done this...


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Great.
> 
> How am I being a hypocrite? DO you even know what that word means? And how am I being closeminded when LHG has been proven to be Obito?
> 
> ...



This is retarded. There's 2 Tobi's. I KNOW SHT is Obito, I OWN the Tobi Is Obito FC, for GOD's sake. I Know the history of theory better than you, to doubt my credibility on the theory would be assinine. You're being hypocritical, because you're acting like those bitches who go "NO, BLANK IS BLANK & THAT'S IT! It can't be no one else *crosses arms*" Then when Kishi slaps you wit da facts, you gonna look silly as fuck. Negging me because you can't absolutely end my theory, means you ain't Prove shit. That's what the Anti Tobito did to Tobito fans for years & look how that turned out. Learn to be patient & logical or stfu.


----------



## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver sure is mad. 

It's hilarious how some people here *coughAlphaReavercough* are still in denial of the LHG being Obito after reading the OP.


----------



## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

> There's 2 Tobi's.


No. There's only one Tobi. Even if there's two masked men, only one of them is Tobi. ONLY the one who entered Akatsuki under the alias "Tobi" is actually Tobi.



> I KNOW Tobi is Obito,


No shit. I'd think there was something wrong with you if you didn't. 



> I OWN the Tobi Is Obito FC, for GOD's sake.


I'm perfectly aware of that. 



> I Know the history of theory better than you,


Ahahaahahahaha!!!! 

You obviously don't if you think it was based on just his hair.



> You're being hypocritical, because you're acting like those bitches who go "NO, BLANK IS BLANK & THAT'S IT! It can't be no one else *crosses arms*"


So, you're saying I should ignore when something is proven in canon?  



> Then when Kishi slaps you wit da facts, you gonna look silly as fuck.


 



> Negging me because you can't absolutely end my theory, means you ain't Prove shit.


I negged you because you were making such a big deal over HAIR.


----------



## Inferno (Sep 16, 2012)

So is AlphaReaver illiterate, or what?


----------



## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 16, 2012)

Inferno said:


> So is AlphaReaver illiterate, or what?



One thing for sure is that he's mad.

He's like the only one here who's still in denial.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 16, 2012)

> LHG has been proven to be Obito?



Obito told everyone he was Madara. The databook said it too. I think that was "proven" too 




> he only one that'll be admitting he was wrong is you. Anyways, even if he really was Madara (which he's not) I'll admit I was wrong. *Tobi is Obito. That's good enough for me*. *I don't give a shit who the long haired masked man is. Whether he's Tobi or Madara, I'd be fine with either.*



Oh the damage control is already beginning? I smell doubt! (and you're lying, if you didn't care you wouldn't have made this thread  )



I mean I'll say it again, I'm not saying you're wrong ObitoUchiha. But the thing me and Alpha are trying to tell you is to not spout "FACT". It's not a fact until kishi says it is in the manga. So relax buddy.


----------



## Talis (Sep 16, 2012)

I sent a message to TaKL about the translation issue ''him-me'', lets see which the right one will be.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

Wow talk about 3 stooges, lmao. How am I mad that Tobito is Proven? Tobi's been referred to as Masked Man, both with Long Hair & Short Hair. I'm saying that there are 2 Masked Men. You mad about Hair? Hair was the first thing Tobito had to go by, we didn't know about S/T Sharingans & all that you fool, all we had was Mask, Color, Name, Hair & Habits. How am I in denial? When did Long Haired Mask Man take off his mask & show US his face?? Please show me. I don't think a Short Haired Masked Man being Obito means that the Long Haired Masked Man is Obito, It jus means Tobito is Proven. Can you guys read?


----------



## Inferno (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver...just stop...


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 16, 2012)

> AlphaReaver...just stop...



Buthurt much?


----------



## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Obito told everyone he was Madara. The databook said it too. I think that was "proven" too


Again, irrelevant.



> Oh the damage control is already beginning? I smell doubt!


You didn't understand the context of that post if you think I have any doubt. 



> (and you're lying, if you didn't care you wouldn't have made this thread  )


I made it because people were saying LHG was Madara when he is Obito. I was just proving a point.





> I mean I'll say it again, I'm not saying you're wrong ObitoUchiha. But the thing me and Alpha are trying to tell you is to not spout "FACT". I*t's not a fact until kishi says it is in the manga.* So relax buddy.


He HAS. Re-read the OP.



loool3 said:


> I sent a message to TaKL about the translation issue ''him-me'', lets see which the right one will be.


Holy shit, he's active again?! o__O

You should have just posted it in the VIZ translation thread though.



AlphaReaver said:


> Tobi's been referred to as Masked Man, both with Long Hair & Short Hair.


LHG has never been referred to as Tobi. He's only Tobi if he's Obito, which he is. Because there's only one Tobi and he's Obito. That's proven.



> I'm saying that there are 2 Masked Men. You mad about Hair? Hair was the first thing Tobito had to go by, we didn't know about S/T Sharingans & all that you fool, all we had was Mask, Color, Name, Hair & Habits.


Going by color preference, personality and habits, and the name is perfectly fine. But going by hair is retarded. Although, it was supportive of the theory, it was the weakest piece of evidence the theory had. 



> I don't think a Short Haired Masked Man being Obito means that the Long Haired Masked Man is Obito, It jus means Tobito is Proven.


Oh yeah! He has different hair so he must be a different person!  That means there's also two Choji's, two Sakuras, two Inos, and two Hinatas!  oh wait, Sasuke's hair grew too! There must be two Sasukes!  But wait, why are we only seeing one of each after the second one appeared? Could it be that there's simply one of each and they just grew their hair out?! 

....NAAAAHHH. That's impossible. 

If LHG's hair was short, people wouldn't even be speculating that he was a different person. HAIR IS LITERALLY *ALL* YOU HAVE TO GO ON. THAT'S PATHETIC.



> Can you guys read?


Yes. Can you?


----------



## Talis (Sep 16, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Oh yeah! He has different hair so he must be a different person!  That means there's also two Choji's, two Sakuras, two Inos, and two Hinatas!  oh wait, Sasuke's hair grew too! There must be two Sasukes!  But wait, why are we only seeing one of each after the second one appeared? Could it be that there's simply one of each and they just grew their hair out?!
> 
> ....NAAAAHHH. That's impossible.
> 
> ...


The thing is that the idea of the long haired masked man being Obito is stupid, why having the Madara hair if you dont need it, and why cut it when you start act like being Madara?
The guy had a bandage on his chest while Madara had a sword cut through his chest and i doubt that Obito with the Zetsu goo would have the bandage too.
And another thing which is against Obito being the long haired masked man is Edo Yagura, if Obito and Yagura indeed had some relation in the past then Kishi could have showed that to us to make it clear that the long haired masked man was indeed Obito, but he didn't.


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## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

Thank you, loool3, for actually presenting some real arguments other than "THE SAME HAIRSTYLE!!!!! "



loool3 said:


> why having the Madara hair if you dont need it, and why cut it when you start act like being Madara?


Because it grew out, and that was also Kishi's way of symbolizing that he had become a little like Madara. Also, he cut it because he was about to act like an idiot in Akatsuki. He changed his mask too. and his outfit.



> The guy had a bandage on his chest while Madara had a sword cut through his chest and i doubt that Obito with the Zetsu goo would have the bandage too.
> And another thing which is against Obito being the long haired masked man is Edo Yagura, if Obito and Yagura indeed had some relation in the past then Kishi could have showed that to us to make it clear that the long haired masked man was indeed Obito, but he didn't.


The only actual argument I've heard so far. props. Firstly, that wasn't exactly relevant to what was going on, and Kishi already showed us things to prove LHG was obito. The Yagura thing really didn't matter. And this argument goes against Madara as well, because, if Madara was the long haired masked man, why let Yagura dissapear before he got there?


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## Rick Hunter (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't know how you can even read posts coming from someone who doesn't even know what paragraphs are used for. It's borderline retarded, and some people will once again feel awfully stupid when their baseless theories get debunked. 

First it was a guy who doesn't know his left from his right, and now this hilarious angry dude. What's next?


----------



## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

Rick Hunter said:
			
		

> I don't know how you can even read posts coming from someone who doesn't even know what paragraphs are used for. It's borderline retarded, and some people will once again feel awfully stupid when their baseless theories get debunked.
> 
> First it was a guy who doesn't know his left from his right, and now this hilarious angry dude. What's next?


I just don't know anymore...

I don't understand where they're all coming from...


----------



## Talis (Sep 16, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> The only actual argument I've heard so far. props. Firstly, that wasn't exactly relevant to what was going on, and Kishi already showed us things to prove LHG was obito. The Yagura thing really didn't matter. And this argument goes against Madara as well, because, if Madara was the long haired masked man, why let Yagura dissapear before he got there?


Because Madara's fashbacks didnt have the right timing for the plot?
Madara couldnt just enter in that battle at that time, nor could Yagura have stay around till now ''or else the Gedou Mazou couldnt awake''.
It was for Obito the perfect moment for having a short flashback or signs of him being the long haired masked man but it didnt happen.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

Man, I'm gonna have some fun coming back to this thread in a few weeks. Especially when we see Old Madara Revitalize himself via Preta Path. I can already see who's gonna turn around & say "but but Kisame saw his face! :/" I know for a fact, that I don't maintain a green rep bar, by acting like a closeminded assclown. Time will tell. Jus like Tobito was never gonna be disproven until we saw the mask come off, this is gonna remain until we actually Madara put on the mask, or see LHMM take the mask off.


----------



## Talis (Sep 16, 2012)

Itachis Amaterasu seal on ''Madara'' Sharingan could be explained by Madara implanting his Sharingan into Obito, he did that for the Izanagi purpose and to be sure that Obito didnt die + the Uchiha masacre didn't happen + its pretty much confirmed that Nagato didnt have Madara's implanted Rinnegan (since Madara still had his Sharingan, they were his own Sharingan look at the veins in the Sharingan which symbolises it being old eyes) but rather via Dna shit.
This leaves the question open whether Obito actually awakened 1 Rinnegan and gave it back to Madara or did Madara awaken both?
That also might explain why Obito said that the Rinnegan were his to begin with lol.


----------



## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Because Madara's fashbacks didnt have the right timing for the plot?
> Madara couldnt just enter in that battle at that time, nor could Yagura have stay around till now ''or else the Gedou Mazou couldnt awake''.
> It was for Obito the perfect moment for having a short flashback or signs of him being the long haired masked man but it didnt happen.


But why would Obito have flashbacks of Yagura? He doesn't even care about him.



AlphaReaver said:


> Man, I'm gonna have some fun coming back to this thread in a few weeks. Especially when we see Old Madara Revitalize himself via Preta Path.


Preta Path doesn't make you young again. 



> I know for a fact, that I don't maintain a green rep bar, by acting like a closeminded assclown.


Oh really? Again, how am I closeminded for going by what's been proven in the manga? 



> Jus like Tobito was never gonna be disproven until we saw the mask come off,


Well, it obviously couldn't have been disproven since Tobi is Obito. 



> this is gonna remain until we actually Madara put on the mask, or see LHMM take the mask off.


Or until we see that Obito grew out his hair, and see control Yagura and help Itachi in the Uchiha Massacre. Which he did.

The LHG is Madara theory has already been disproven. Holding onto it and ignoring logic and manga canon in favor of fucking HAIRSTYLE is just pathetic.

Back when Tobi was saying he was Madara, before it was revealed he wasn't, if you said Tobi was really Obito JUST because of his hairstyle, I can see why people laughed at you. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Tobi is Obito and I was a huge supporter, but I never once supported it just because of hairstyle, because that is just stupid.



			
				loool3 said:
			
		

> Itachis Amaterasu seal on ''Madara'' Sharingan could be explained by Madara implanting his Sharingan into Obito, he did that for the Izanagi purpose and to be sure that Obito didnt die + the Uchiha masacre didn't happen + its pretty much confirmed that Nagato didnt have Madara's implanted Rinnegan (since Madara still had his Sharingan, they were his own Sharingan look at the veins in the Sharingan which symbolises it being old eyes) but rather via Dna shit.
> This leaves the question open whether Obito actually awakened 1 Rinnegan and gave it back to Madara or did Madara awaken both?
> That also might explain why Obito said that the Rinnegan were his to begin with lol.


Kay. So why'd the Amaterasu trap go off at the sight of Obito's RIGHT eye, which is his?


----------



## Inferno (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> Man, I'm gonna have some fun coming back to this thread in a few weeks. Especially when we see Old Madara Revitalize himself via Preta Path. I can already see who's gonna turn around & say "but but Kisame saw his face! :/" I know for a fact, that I don't maintain a green rep bar, by acting like a closeminded assclown. Time will tell. Jus like Tobito was never gonna be disproven until we saw the mask come off, this is gonna remain until we actually Madara put on the mask, or see LHMM take the mask off.



K, come back when LHG is Obito, and apologize. Hopefully your illiteracy won't hamper your ability to read said chapter right.


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## Talis (Sep 16, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> But why would Obito have flashbacks of Yagura? He doesn't even care about him.


Its not whether he cared or not its all about the plot, it was the perfect time for their flashbacks but they didnt which could be explained if Long haired masked man wasnt Obito.
And if im not wrong Itachi met the Long haired masked man about after the Kyuubi's night which is also the same for the long haired masked man controling Yagura.
If Madara came out the shadow with white hairs to show himself to Kisame, and he killed Yagura and made himself the Jinch that could explain his white hair and the reason why the 3rd tail was around without being in a body, because who could have sealed the 3rd tail if a shady person as Madara was the Jin of it?

Another things which explains is that Madara actually told Yahiko to create Akastuki, and Madara himself went out to find members for the Akastuki, members like Kisame Itachi.
Now use common sense, who should have more knowledge about the worlds strongest potential full ninjas someone who lived for 18 years or someone which lived for over 100 years?

Maybe Uchiha + Bijuu is Rinnegan? 
Nagato had the Rinnegan because he had his natural amount of chakra from being an Uzumaki.


> Kay. So why'd the Amaterasu trap go off at the sight of Obito's RIGHT eye, which is his?


Oh yeah, i wondered about that too, but Danzou with a bandage on his eyes still could cast Genjutsu around, so i wont be surprised if the thing with the mask went the same, but the 1 eyed Rinnegan theory is still far fetched even for me.


----------



## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Its not whether he cared or not its all about the plot, it was the perfect time for their flashbacks but they didnt which could be explained if Long haired masked man wasnt Obito.


Maybe it's because Obito controlled him without a mask on, and showing it then would spoil the reveal?



> And if im not wrong Itachi met the Long haired masked man about after the Kyuubi's night which is also the same for the long haired masked man controling Yagura.
> If Madara came out the shadow with white hairs to show himself to Kisame, and he killed Yagura and made himself the Jinch that could explain his white hair and the reason why the 3rd tail was around without being in a body, because who could have sealed the 3rd tail if a shady person as Madara was the Jin of it?


Okay, if his white hair was from being Isobu's jin, ten why did he have white hair before that when he saved Obito? 



> Now use common sense, who should have more knowledge about the worlds strongest potential full ninjas someone who lived for 18 years or someone which lived for over 100 years?


Considering how much knowledge Obito possesses, it's not at all surprising.



> Oh yeah, i wondered about that too, but Danzou with a bandage on his eyes still could cast Genjutsu around, so i wont be surprised if the thing with the mask went the same, but the 1 eyed Rinnegan theory is still far fetched even for me.


I forgot about that. Good point.


----------



## Talis (Sep 16, 2012)

> Maybe it's because Obito controlled him without a mask on, and showing it then would spoil the reveal?


Not necessary Kishi still could have shown the same flashbacks as a sign.



> Okay, if his white hair was from being Isobu's jin, ten why did he have white hair before that when he saved Obito?


The effect went off?
If you gain young look by gaining a great amount of chakra you still can lose it when your on chakra drain like on Tsunade.

And was it actually necessary for Kishi to show us Nagato transforming into young mode?
I think it was something meant and hinted for Madara.

Dont forget when Itachi met ''Madara'' he said that he examinate his plans and what his goals was.
That line actually fit perfectly in the real Madara's goals.
Madara was the one to steal the Senjus Dna, obviously because he had plans with it to recreate the Rinnegan.

*Important clues against Obito being the long haired maksed man:
*1: Kisame clearly knew the real Madara ''show me yourself i dont believe it that your him'' Kisame clearly knew how the real Madara looked like as he said so how could Obito could have trick him?
2: ''I believe hes long dead'', not, confirmed now.
3: Why would Obito lie to someone like Kisame which was the closest to him?


----------



## NW (Sep 16, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> Also if Itachi killed Madara who posed as MM & then saw another MM who was also Uchiha, of course he's gonna call him an invincible immortal. & once he saw that individual, the ninja thing to do was prep a trap for his eyes. I believe Itachi actually met Madara & then assumed evrytime he saw a MM he believed him to be Madara.


oh, yes. Cuz we all know Itachi makes baseless assumptions...  



> But whatever, people want to fully ignore logic & prematurely jump to conclusions.


The only one who's ignoring logic here is you. You have yet to refute a single thing I said in my OP. I have already proven that THG is Obito. You'd know this if you read the OP.



> The amount Logical Fallacies in this thread is astounding. I feel bad Kishi's got such a lame audience at times. -_-


Logical fallacies? Everyone else is going by logic, while all you have is hairstyle. Hypocrite.

Take loool3 for example. He disagrees with me, but he actually tries to give explanations for my points, and doesn't just scream, "DOESN'T MATTER, HAIRSTYLE! "



> Makes me appreciate his writing even more.


I appreciate his writing because he doesn't base his manga off hairstyle, and actually listens to logic.

I'm too tired to debate this shit any longer. I'll be back tomorrow.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 16, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Not necessary Kishi still could have shown the same flashbacks as a sign.
> 
> The effect went off?
> If you gain young look by gaining a great amount of chakra you still can lose it when your on chakra drain like on Tsunade.
> ...



Shit, good catch with the Tsunade stuff. Can't believe that slipped by me. Damn, Kishi's shown us Chakra/Youth connection since part 1. & yet they will still doubt the precedents that Kishi lays before them, & then scream out asspull when it doesn't go their way.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

I'd also like to point out that you are all just basing the LHG is Madara theory off of hairstyle. That is literally ALL you have. That's like me saying that it wasn't Obito that attacked Konoha with Kurama at Naruto's birth, because even though he had the same hairstyle, he had a different mask then Obito currently does. He must also be a different person from LHG because even though they have the same mask, they have a different hairstyle. SO, OMG, there must be three masked men! One masked man is Tobi, and then there are two others, Nobi and Hobi! OMFG!!!!!!!!! 



loool3 said:


> *Important clues against Obito being the long haired maksed man:
> *1: Kisame clearly knew the real Madara ''show me yourself i dont believe it that your him'' Kisame clearly knew how the real Madara looked like as he said so how could Obito could have trick him?
> 2: ''I believe hes long dead'', not, confirmed now.
> 3: Why would Obito lie to someone like Kisame which was the closest to him?


Kisame obviously knew he wasn't really Madara, but followed him anyway after hearing about him and his plan.



AlphaReaver said:


> Shit, good catch with the Tsunade stuff. Can't believe that slipped by me. Damn, Kishi's shown us Chakra/Youth connection since part 1. *& yet they will still doubt the precedents that Kishi lays before them, & then scream out asspull when it doesn't go their way.*


A little quick to judge, are we? I've already said I don;t care who the long haired guy is. *Tobi* is Obito. That's all I really need. Whether the long haired guy is Tobi or Madara, I won't care. IF he actually is Madara, I'd be perfectly fine with it, and happily await the explanation. I don't call anything an asspull. That's because I love Kishi's writing and I bitch about him all the time. 

And, about ignoring precedents, that is not at all what anyone is doing. Even if you could possibly solve that issue, there are still plenty more issues with LHG being Madara. You also sound hypocritical because you're ignoring the proof I've presented for LHG being Obito. Things go both ways, buddy.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> I'd also like to point out that you are all just basing the LHG is Madara theory off of hairstyle. That is literally ALL you have. That's like me saying that it wasn't Obito that attacked Konoha with Kurama at Naruto's birth, because even though he had the same hairstyle, he had a different mask then Obito currently does. He must also be a different person from LHG because even though they have the same mask, they have a different hairstyle. SO, OMG, there must be three masked men! One masked man is Tobi, and then there are two others, Nobi and Hobi! OMFG!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Kisame obviously knew he wasn't really Madara, but followed him anyway after hearing about him and his plan.
> 
> ...



You're still ignoring the prominent use of the hand on hip pose, the bandages on LHMM's chest & his different foot wear. But whatever, when you see that the Long Haired Guy is in Fact Uchiha Madara, don't come tryna spin shit around to act like you knew he was different person from Obito.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

I've asked TaKL about the translation issue and to be the honestly its still not clear but its fishy, this is what taKL said;

*he said "im sorry that ive decieved you who is the closest" in jp. 
but from the context it have to be "the closest person to me"*

Its like Tobito was actually implying that Kisame actually knew the real Madara right?
Because Obito was going around as Madara that makes him ''deceiving'' Kisame because Madara was the closest to him.


----------



## Oga Tatsumi (Sep 17, 2012)

Good Thread.

But long hair masked man = Obito is still not 100% confirmed.


----------



## T-Bag (Sep 17, 2012)

obito doing the madara pose


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> You're still ignoring the prominent use of the hand on hip pose,


He only used it once, and I've already shown you that Obito uses it too.



> the bandages on LHMM's chest


Show me a chapter where Madara had bandages on his chest.



> & his different foot wear.


Show me a chapter of Madara having that kind of footwear. And Obito had different footwear when he attacked Konoha. It's called CHANGING YOUR OUTFIT.



> But whatever, when you see that the Long Haired Guy is in Fact Uchiha Madara, don't come tryna spin shit around to act like you knew he was different person from Obito.


IF he was Madara (which he's not) I'm not going to act as you say I am. I thought I'd made this clear? I guess you really do lack reading comprehension.



Mickie said:


> Good Thread.
> 
> But long hair masked man = Obito is *still not 100% confirmed.*


Yes it is.



			
				loool3 said:
			
		

> Its like Tobito was actually implying that Kisame actually knew the real Madara right?
> Because Obito was going around as Madara that makes him ''deceiving'' Kisame because Madara was the closest to him.


So Obito can't speak as himself as well?


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> So Obito can't speak as himself as well?


But he says ''*who''* the closest is to you.


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 17, 2012)

I do believe the real Madara Uchiha has used Preta Path's absorbption ability to revitalize himself......which is the only reason why I believe the LHM really *was*  him.

It would also explain why what Kabuto revived was Madara in his prime, rather than this fucking old ass relic that's standing over young Obito.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> I do believe the real Madara Uchiha has used Preta Path's absorbption ability to revitalize himself......which is the only reason why I believe the LHM really *was*  him.


Where has teh Preta Path been shown to make you younger? 



> It would also explain why what Kabuto revived was Madara in his prime, rather than this fucking old ass relic that's standing over young Obito.


kabuto himself has stated that he revived Madara beyond how he was in his prime. meaning he modified him to be young again, but still have all the abilities he had in his old age. Also, madara would have no need to wear an orange, one eye holed mask.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Where has teh Preta Path been shown to make you younger?
> 
> kabuto himself has stated that he revived Madara beyond how he was in his prime. meaning he modified him to be young again, but still have all the abilities he had in his old age. Also, madara would have no need to wear an orange, one eye holed mask.


----------



## korican04 (Sep 17, 2012)

Tobito could have just picked up that tea cup pose from hanging out with Madara. The itachi eye activation and kisame saying oh it's you initially convinced me it was the same dude.

If it doesn't make sense i don't blame you, I remember when the databook came out and said zabuza was the same age as kakashi, so zabuza killed all his class mates when he was 16/17 but zabuza said he was around naruto's age when he did it (12/13) so he should be 22/23. then it said he graduated from the academy at 9 years old, but he killed all the students before he himself was a student. -_-


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

*@loool3:* There is a significant difference between absorbing chakra to replenish your drained, used up body, and absorbing chakra to make yourself young again.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> *@loool3:* There is a significant difference between absorbing chakra to replenish your drained, used up body, and absorbing chakra to make yourself young again.


Conclusion?


----------



## Godaime Kazekage (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> *@loool3:* There is a significant difference between absorbing chakra to replenish your drained, used up body, and absorbing chakra to make yourself young again.



I don't know man. That scan is pretty damning evidence.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

Godaime Kazekage said:
			
		

> I don't know man. That scan is pretty damning evidence.


Except Nagato wasn't actually old. Madara was.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Except Nagato wasn't actually old. Madara was.


Tsunade is old, she still looks young.


----------



## Godaime Kazekage (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Except Nagato wasn't actually old. Madara was.



Nagato was older than what he appeared to be when he replenished his body. He looked to be in his twenties when he absorbed Bee's chakra.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

loool3 said:
			
		

> Tsunade is old, she still looks young.


Well, that's a completely different story. You may in fact be on to something with this.


*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 



Not. 















			
				Godaime Kazekage said:
			
		

> Nagato was older than what he appeared to be when he replenished his body. He looked to be in his twenties when he absorbed Bee's chakra.


That's irrelevant. It doesn't matter how he looked, because he only looked like that because he was drained by the Gedo Mazou.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 17, 2012)

Obito hasn't been shown doing the pose as much as Madara has & since Madara has been around longer & served as a Mentor to Obito, it's safe to say that the hand on hip is Madara's "thing"

Long Haired Masked Man had bandages on his chest & feet in that Yagura Flashback that you LOVE to talk about.

Outfits may change, but Hair does not change. This manga has been goin on for a decade, I woulda hoped people can recoognize the Kishimoto standard by now.

Why would Obito grow his hair to impersonate someone & then cut it off & still impersonate that person. If he grew it for disguise, he would keep it, for disguise.

Kishi put Madara & Obito Side By Side, as the latest Akatsuki pair in order to show their connection as The Masked Man. Think about Scream 2 where there were 2 Villains wearing the same mask.

You argue against all we have said, but still cannot disprove our claims. Thus you have no absolute proof of your claim that Long Haired Masked Man is Obito. I really don't know why you have such a hard time accepting the possibility that Long Haired Masked Man is Madara. Tobito has won already. I feel like you're fighting some sort of invisible war at this point.


----------



## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 17, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Tsunade is old, she still looks young.



Nope. Tsunade's only 50. Above 65 is old.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> *He only used it once*, and I've already shown you that Obito uses it too.



On the contrary, we've seen quite a few pictures of Madara showing off the hip pose.

I can even provide you with some scans to prove it.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> Obito hasn't been shown doing the pose as much as Madara has & since Madara has been around longer & served as a Mentor to Obito, it's safe to say that the hand on hip is Madara's "thing"


Obito still does it as well. That pose has no bearing on anything.



> Long Haired Masked Man had bandages on his chest & feet in that Yagura Flashback that you LOVE to talk about.


Again, what does that have to do with ANYTHING?!



> Outfits may change, but Hair does not change.


Choji says hi.

Also, should I point out that LHG actually does NOT have the EXACT same hairstyle as Madara?



> This manga has been goin on for a decade, I woulda hoped people can recoognize the Kishimoto standard by now.


We've certainly recognized his standard, and that does NOT include hair.



> Why would Obito grow his hair to impersonate someone & then cut it off & still impersonate that person. If he grew it for disguise, he would keep it, for disguise.


I've already explained this. His hair grew out and he cut it. He was about to go all goofy in Akatsuki.



> Kishi put Madara & Obito Side By Side, as the latest Akatsuki pair in order to show their connection as The Masked Man. Think about Scream 2 where there were 2 Villains wearing the same mask.


They're not even an Akatsuki, pair. And they're side by side because they're partners. 



> You argue against all we have said, but still cannot disprove our claims.


I've already disproven the Preta Path argument. All you're doing is ignoring my arguments and saying your can't be disproven when they have clearly been. 

Also, what good do your claims have when the opposite side has already been proven? 



> Thus you have no absolute proof of your claim that Long Haired Masked Man is Obito.


What kind of logic is that? Did you read the OP? 



> I really don't know why you have such a hard time accepting the possibility that Long Haired Masked Man is Madara.


because there is literally nothing pointing to it except hair. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to base a theory off of nothing but hair, especially when it's not even a theory as the opposite side has already been proven.  



> Tobito has won already. I feel like you're fighting some sort of invisible war at this point.


I'm simply arguing against a completely illogical assumption based on pretty much nothing.



			
				HeLLzRoLLinG said:
			
		

> On the contrary, we've seen quite a few pictures of Madara showing off the hip pose.
> 
> I can even provide you with some scans to prove it.


I know Madara does that pose alot. i was saying LHG was only seen to have used that pose once.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 17, 2012)

He asked when we see bandages & different feet & I tell him & then he goes "what does this have to do with anything?"

OP we've seen hair grow, but when have we seen some one grow it & cut it off off panel?? -_-

They ARE an Akatsuki Pair. Are you retarded? They're Team Masked Man/Tobi/Madara

How have you disproven the Preta Path arguement?? Manga Canon SHOWS MULTIPLE Incidents where a person has used CHAKRA to RESTORE A YOUTHFUL APPEARANCE!!

Not for nothing but People have been calling Nagato "Madara Lite" since we've seen the Rinnegan. People even believe that they have a similar Physical Appearance. & this was even BEFORE the revelation of Old Madara. & you think people are making this connection in vain??

I believe Old Madara regained his Hair Color via Preta Path & you have yet to disprove this claim. Old Madara may have been killed by Itachi & then replaced by Obito & thus from that point onward, we see Short Haired Masked Man. We already know Itachi & Kisame were 2 of the first Members of the modern Akatsuki. If Itachi killed him & then saw someone wearing his exact shit & acting like him, the only logical conclusion for Itachi to arrive to is that he was dealing with an Invincible Immortal. He had to at 1 point see Madara's EMS in order to state that his eyes were alive & well, ESPECIALLY since Obito doesn't even HAVE an EMS. If he believes there to be 3 MS users in Sasuke Itachi & Masked Man, then he dies, of course he's gonna put a trap for Masked Man. There is no other party to target!! But you don't even take the time to consider this possibility & instead jus shout "proof!! Proven!!" Like a immature noob who doesn't know what proving something truly is. You do not have absolute evidence that you are correct, so please stop claiming you have proven Long Haired Masked Man to be Obito until WE the audience see his face.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> He asked when we see bandages & different feet & I tell him & then he goes "what does this have to do with anything?"


How can you tell that his feet look different? They're fucking FEET!!!



> OP we've seen hair grow, but when have we seen some one grow it & cut it off off panel?? -_-


Sakura.



> They ARE an Akatsuki Pair. Are you retarded? They're Team Masked Man/Tobi/Madara


Your baseless untrue assumptions =/= canon



> How have you disproven the Preta Path arguement?? Manga Canon SHOWS MULTIPLE Incidents where a person has used CHAKRA to RESTORE A YOUTHFUL APPEARANCE!!


I said I've specifically disproven the Preta Path argument. Not EVERY SINGLE youth regaining argument.



> I believe Old Madara regained his Hair Color via Preta Path & you have yet to disprove this claim.


Preta Path can't restore youth. Claim disproven. 



> Old Madara may have been killed by Itachi


WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  I'm sorry, but... wow.



> & then replaced by Obito & thus from that point onward,


If he replaced him from that point onward, then why did OBITO attack Konoha BEFORE you say Itachi killed Madara?



> We already know Itachi & Kisame were 2 of the first Members of the modern Akatsuki. If Itachi killed him & then saw someone wearing his exact shit & acting like him, the only logical conclusion for Itachi to arrive to is that he was dealing with an Invincible Immortal.


Itachi would not fall for something like that. And what do you mean his exact shirt? When has Obito been shown wearing those clothes since the uchiha massacre? Also, Obito acts nothing like Madara.



> He had to at 1 point see Madara's EMS in order to state that his eyes were alive & well, ESPECIALLY since Obito doesn't even HAVE an EMS.


No shit, that's why he assumed Obito's MS was an EMS. He didn't know what an EMS looked like.



> But you don't even take the time to consider this possibility & instead jus shout "proof!! Proven!!"


Because I DO have proof. Alot of what I put in the OP is proof. 



> You do not have absolute evidence that you are correct,


No, but I have absolute PROOF.



> so please stop claiming you have proven Long Haired Masked Man to be Obito until WE the audience see his face.


Kisame saw his face and recognized him as the same person controlling Yagura. Proof.


----------



## Meikun (Sep 17, 2012)

Woah wait, their names are practically the same and the only thing Tobito Theorists had to go on was hair alone? o.O

Anyway interesting post, can't wait to see how this plays out.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

I love stupid peoples lol, especially the Tobito haters.
Old days Obito haired person shows up> Its Madara with haircut.
Nowadays Tobito confirmed> Long Madara haired masked man shows up> Its Obito with a wig.
Fail much?


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

Meikun said:


> Woah wait, their names are practically the same and the only thing Tobito Theorists had to go on was hair alone? o.O
> 
> Anyway interesting post, can't wait to see how this plays out.


Wha? Us Tobito supporters had 1000000x more things than the hair going for us. AlphaReaver's infected your mind.



loool3 said:


> I love stupid peoples lol, especially the Tobito haters.
> Old days Obito haired person shows up> Its Madara with haircut.
> Nowadays Tobito confirmed> Long Madara haired masked man shows up> Its Obito with a wig.
> Fail much?


I'm not a hater. I'm happy that Tobi is Obito. I was a Tobito *supporter*.  I just think it's stupid that people are basing the LHG = Madara theory off of nothing but hair, and their hairstyles aren't actually even the same.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Wha? Us Tobito supporters had 1000000x more things than the hair going for us. AlphaReaver's infected your mind.
> 
> I'm was a Tobito *supporter*.  I just think it's stupid that people are basing the LHG = Madara theory off of nothing but hair, and their hairstyles aren't actually even the same. (Lol, I'm not even sure if you were aiming that post at me, but still.)


Like i said it 10000x before when Tobito wasnt revealed, every single detail outside of the mask matters, its just natural and obvious to pick up the character which looks as that guy.
Would you still say that he was Obito if it was someone with a pink Sakura hairs?
In your logic yes since we're in the same case.


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Where has teh Preta Path been shown to make you younger?
> 
> kabuto himself has stated that he revived Madara beyond how he was in his prime. meaning he modified him to be young again, but still have all the abilities he had in his old age. Also, madara would have no need to wear an orange, one eye holed mask.





*Konan*  - "Nagato's eye jutsu is able to *rule over life and death*..."

Are you really going to tell me that a Rinnegan revitalizing an old, atrophied body back to its physical prime really out of the realm of possibility? After we've seen this same doujutsu bring people back from death?

You have a point with Kabuto making modifications to him, but Kishi had better explain that in the future, because, at the moment - he's defying a rule of Edo Tensei:

- _Subjects are revived in the state they were in at the time of their death_.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> How can you tell that his feet look different? They're fucking FEET!!!
> 
> Sakura.
> 
> ...



You mention feet, but ignore the chest, nice one.

Sakura cut her hair ON panel. Try again.

Are they Akatsuki? Check! Are they a team? Check! Are they a pair? Check! Pair of Akatsuki = Akatsuki Pair. 

How did you disprove the Preta Path argument? Oh right, you haven't! BUT you wanna act as if we haven't been shown that Chakra & Youth go hand in hand.

Cuz they are working as a team!! Teamwork is good for splitting tasks. 

:/ Are serious right now?? The only thing you really have going for you is the Kisame thing & that's not even new information.

@Inferno I'm having a discussion, you are doing nothing but spectating & spamming. Hop off bud, easy.

@Meikun What? I'm saying we originally just had the Name, Mask & Hair to go by. BUT seeing that you're from like 2012, I don't expect you to remember Forums.Narutofan.com & the good ole golden days, especially since the original Tobito threads have been lost over time. But hey if you wanna bandwagon & argue with a Tobito OG go ahead, lmao.

@loool3 it's crazy! First they argue & say Obito's hair didn't look like SHMM & that Madara's hair looked like SHMM & now they saying that SHMM & LHMM are the same person with a haircut. Who dafuqs gonna cut Madara's hair?? & why dafuq would Obito grow his own out, lmao? They are ignoring the fact that Kishi showed Obito & Madara together so that we can know that they are different people. Using the Tobito Method we already found that SHMM was Obito, so why would we ignore it, when it's telling us that LHMM is Madara? I jus can't stand that people wanna claim to be Tobito supporters but have no flexibility in their thinking & act like the very people who shunned Tobito Theory in the first place.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

loool3 said:
			
		

> Like i said it 10000x before when Tobito wasnt revealed, every single detail outside of the mask matters, its just natural and obvious to pick up the character which looks as that guy.
> Would you still say that he was Obito if it was someone with a pink Sakura hairs?
> In your logic yes since we're in the same case.


You've got a very good point but LHG's hair doesn't look exactly like Madara's and there are distinct differences. it looks like Obito's except much longer. If you don't understand, I can just show you with manga panels.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> @loool3 it's crazy! First they argue & say Obito's hair didn't look like SHMM & that Madara's hair looked like SHMM & now they saying that SHMM & LHMM are the same person with a haircut. Who dafuqs gonna cut Madara's hair?? & why dafuq would Obito grow his own out, lmao? They are ignoring the fact that Kishi showed Obito & Madara together so that we can know that they are different people. Using the Tobito Method we already found that SHMM was Obito, so why would we ignore it, when it's telling us that LHMM is Madara? I jus can't stand that people wanna claim to be Tobito supporters but have no flexibility in their thinking & act like the very people who shunned Tobito Theory in the first place.


And also this panel;


Obviously Kishi hinting us that there are 2 different masked mans like the road to the ninja movie.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 17, 2012)

loool3 said:


> And also this panel;
> 
> 
> Obviously Kishi hinting us that there are 2 different masked mans like the road to the ninja movie.



I can't see that img :/ is it manga reader or something?


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> I can't see that img :/ is it manga reader or something?


Oh right let me fix it.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> You mention feet, but ignore the chest, nice one.


Who cares about his chest?



> Sakura cut her hair ON panel. Try again.


Nope. Her hair also got longer during the timeskip, but she cut it again off panel.



> Are they Akatsuki? Check! Are they a team? Check! Are they a pair? Check! Pair of Akatsuki = Akatsuki Pair.


Nope.



> How did you disprove the Preta Path argument? Oh right, you haven't! BUT you wanna act as if we haven't been shown that Chakra & Youth go hand in hand.


PRETA PATH DOESN'T MAKE YOU YOUNG AGAIN. I NEVER SAID I DISPROVED THE FUCKING CHAKRA-YOUTH ARGUMENT.

*sigh*



> Cuz they are working as a team!! Teamwork is good for splitting tasks.


This, I agree with.



> :/ Are serious right now?? The only thing you really have going for you is the Kisame thing & that's not even new information.


You obviously didn't read the whole OP, or read the new additions to it if you think that's all the proof I have.



> Using the Tobito Method we already found that SHMM was Obito, so why would we ignore it, when it's telling us that LHMM is Madara?


The "Tobito method" was not hairstyle. If you knew anything about the theory, you'd know there was much more about it than that. 



> I just can't stand that people wanna claim to be Tobito supporters but have no flexibility in their thinking & act like the very people who shunned Tobito Theory in the first place.


I was a real Tobito supporter. But you obviously weren't if you think hair is all there is to it. Anyone who bases a theory off hairstyle doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. I've been quite literally laughing me ass off the past two days reading your posts. At this point I'm just doing this for entertainment. You're a joke. loool3 and Quickdraw777 and the others, I can take seriously. They actually support their LHG = Madara argument with logic and don't JUST use "oh, the hair, the hair!" as evidence.

For instance, I believe someone brought up at the end of the Sasuke and Itachi Vs. Kabuto fight that Itachi called obito "Tobi" instead of Madara. THAT is a logical point.



> Quikdraw7777 & Loool3 are the only ones with any sense around here!! Thank you NF for restoring my faith in humanity!!


Excuse us for going by manga facts and not hair.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Sep 17, 2012)

I had never bothered to think much about this so it was an interesting read.




> he was at the Uchiha Massacre. Ya wanna know who else was at the Uchiha Massacre? LHG.
> 
> One more thing. As we know, LHG and Itachi met at the Uchiha Massacre. Itachi also confirmed during his battle with Sasuke that LHG was his mentor. Now, surely he would have seen LHG's Sharingan. Now, right before Itachi died, he set an Amaterasu trap in Sasuke's left eye to go off at the sight of *Obito's* Sharingan. Obito also knows the truth about Itachi; something very few know. Now, we know only only the Konoha higher ups were supposed to know. But we have know explanation of how Obito knows it. How does he know it? He knows it because he was LHG and knew all those things because he was Itachi's mentor. Also, Itachi knew to set up the Amaterasu trap to activate when Sasuke saw Obito's Sharingan because Obito was LHG, his mentor.



This is the best evidence for it by far.  I don't really know how anyone could refute that.




ObitoUchiha111 said:


> there is not a panel showing Obito starting the Bloody Mist. Only some showing him controlling Yagura when he met Kisame, and Obito and Kisame are the same age so Obito would have been an adult at that time.
> 
> That said, it is entirely possible for Madara to have simply started the Bloody Mist and then handed the reigns over to Obito.



Decent hypothesis.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Who cares about his chest?



An easter egg for you.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 17, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Oh right let me fix it.



Good Catch! That's Kishimoto showing us that Uchiha Madara & Obito are 2 different people. There is NO REASON that Kishi would have OBITO show us his HAIR when questioned on his IDENTITY. & then when we see SHORT HAIR we hear, "NO, YOU COULDN'T BE MADARA" & people still refuse to consider the obvious. Tis a sad day on these forums.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

loool3 said:


> And also this panel;
> 
> 
> Obviously Kishi hinting us that there are 2 different masked mans like the road to the ninja movie.


Menma has nothing to do with any of this. 



			
				loool3 said:
			
		

> An easter egg for you.


 Another good find.  Although, the bandages could also be from all those boulders damaging his chest. 



			
				AlphaReaver said:
			
		

> Uchiha Madara & Obito are 2 different people.


No shit.



> people still refuse to consider the obvious.


Yes. Because we all know Hairstyle > logical manga canon facts.


----------



## Talis (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Menma has nothing to do with any of this.


He was supposed to be Shisui first, and the point is that there are 2 masked mans in there.



> Another good find.  Although, the bandages could also be from all those boulders damaging his chest.


As i said before, the chance is pretty high that Obito with Zetsu goo didnt need to have a bandage.


----------



## NW (Sep 17, 2012)

loool3 said:
			
		

> He was supposed to be Shisui first.


No he wasn't. That was just some mistake in the manuscript translation or something.



> As i said before, the chance is pretty high that Obito with Zetsu goo didnt need to have a bandage.


Well, we know he has scars on his face still, and we've seen in chapter 601 that he has at least one scar going down his neck, so he likely has some on his chest too. 

Why do you think he covered his forehead with bandages? To cover the scars. His mask covered the rest of the scars on his face. And he covered his neck (which has a scar) and the rest of him completely. He likely has scars all over (not his arms, though, as they were able to be replaced by Zetsu goo).


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 17, 2012)

loool3 said:


> An easter egg for you.



Man! Even better! Look at Dat Chest Wound! But I guess that's still not enough to show these 1000%Proofgoons why LHMM would have bandages that match wounds Madara would have!!

They're gonna see next chapter when Obito stares at Old Madara's Chest & sees BANDAGES matching those worn by LHMM.  It's gonna be sweet.


----------



## Meikun (Sep 17, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Wha? Us Tobito supporters had 1000000x more things than the hair going for us. AlphaReaver's infected your mind.



Whoops, I thought I was making a (sarcastic) reply to one of his posts.


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm just under the assumption that the LHM was Madara introducing himself as the masked man to Kisame and Itachi, and had this logic in mind:


Madara - "Obito, even after I die, if you continue to wear this mask, *folks may believe that I'm still alive*. Even if you have short hair, folks will *believe that I gave myself a haircut*. Use my name to cause massive amounts of misdirection and confusion into the world, so that you can successfully complete your plan, and Nagato can safely use Rinne Tensei to revive me in the shadows...."

Obito - "Yes, Sir!"


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 17, 2012)

Meikun said:


> Whoops, I thought I was making a (sarcastic) reply to one of his posts.



How Do You Guys Argue The Origins Of The Tobito Theory With The Owner Of The Tobito Fan Club Himself?? That's Like Sasuke Arguing With Madara Over The History of The Uchiha Clan. Please be seated children.  I can assure you that the original & founding pieces of evidence towards Tobito were Hair,Name & Mask.



Quikdraw7777 said:


> I'm just under the assumption that the LHM was Madara introducing himself as the masked man to Kisame and Itachi, and had this logic in mind:
> 
> 
> Madara - "Obito, even after I die, if you continue to wear this mask, *folks may believe that I'm still alive*. Even if you have short hair, folks will *believe that I gave myself a haircut*. Use my name to cause massive amounts of misdirection and confusion into the world, so that you can successfully complete your plan, and Nagato can safely use Rinne Tensei to revive me in the shadows...."
> ...



This man gets the plot! & Thus we have Junior Members Itachi & Kisame thinking they work with Madara & Madara knowing Nagato & Obito & Madara appearing to have more lives than a cat, appearing omniscient, ominipresent & omnipotent. Thus Plothole Patched!


----------



## NW (Sep 18, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> How Do You Guys Argue The Origins Of The Tobito Theory With The Owner Of The Tobito Fan Club Himself??That's Like Sasuke Arguing With Madara Over The History of The Uchiha Clan. Please be seated children.  I can assure you that the original & founding pieces of evidence towards Tobito were Hair,Name & Mask.


You founded the Tobito fanclub on NF. You did NOT found the theory. This theory has MUCH, more solid, and logical pieces of evidence going for it other than hair. Color preferance, gestures, his panels ALWAYS coming either BEFORE or AFTER Kakashi's, and the fact that Kakashi's characetr still needed someone from his past in order to give him more closure on his character, and Kishi's writitng style, even Japanese mythology, and chapter 16, the one eye hole. THAT is the REAL evidence the theory was based on. And that's only counting before a plethra of other evidence showed up all throughout the manga. You may have founded ONE Tobito fanclub only on NF, but, you don't know anything about the theory.

Whatever. When you're forced to accept the FACT that Obito was LHG, I have no doubt you'll still be going "No fair, Kishi! He had the same hairstyle as Madara! "

The thing is, LHG did NOT have the same hairstyle as Madara.

I can see your butthurt now.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 18, 2012)

I didn't say I founded it, I said I was the current owner. We been refining the theory over years as more & more evidence presented itself, but the first clues we ever had were the Name, The Suspicious Mask & the Color Scheme. How can you debate this?? Do you know how ignorant you look right now. There's over 100 people on these forums who can testify to what I am saying. Your account is brand spanking new, you wasn't here to witness the origins, nor the biggest debates. You came to the party after years of evidence & oddities & clues were given to us. The orginal founders founded Tobito off those 3 things & this was around the time we first seen Tobi after the Sasori fight. How you tellin ME what it's based on when your history of the theory is all fucked up?? You wasn't even around for the whole "My power, Sharingan's power, Uchiha Madara's power." fiasco. Fallback with ya noob ass.

When you successfuly prove that LHMM is Obito, I will admit to be wrong, but as of this moment in time, you haven't proven SHIT. When WE the AUDIENCE see the face of the Long Haired Masked Man, then the argument will be over, but till then, don't act like a know it all. YOU haven't seen the face behind the mask so stfu.


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## NW (Sep 18, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> I didn't say I founded it, I said I was the current owner. We been refining the theory over years as more & more evidence presented itself, but the first clues we ever had were the Name, The Suspicious Mask & the Color Scheme. How can you debate this?? Do you know how ignorant you look right now. There's over 100 people on these forums who can testify to what I am saying. Your account is brand spanking new, you wasn't here to witness the origins, nor the biggest debates. You came to the party after years of evidence & oddities & clues were given to us. The orginal founders founded Tobito off those 3 things & this was around the time we first seen Tobi after the Sasori fight. How you tellin ME what it's based on when your history of the theory is all fucked up?? You wasn't even around for the whole "My power, Sharingan's power, Uchiha Madara's power." fiasco. Fallback with ya noob ass.


Hoe does my join date on a forum indicate how long I've been around? 

And for the last time, those weren't the only things pointing to Tobito originally.



> When you successfuly prove that LHMM is Obito, I will admit to be wrong, but as of this moment in time, you haven't proven SHIT.


Do you know what proof is? Read the OP for proof. It's not going to just magically go away just because of "ZOMFG, HAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" 




> When WE the AUDIENCE see the face of the Long Haired Masked Man, then the argument will be over, but till then, don't act like a know it all.


Except we HAVE seen his face. It was revealed in chapter 599 that he was Obito. It's confirmed. Have you been keeping track of the manga?



> YOU haven't seen the face behind the mask so stfu.


Yes I have. We first saw it in chapter 16.


----------



## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> I'm not a hater. I'm happy that Tobi is Obito. I was a Tobito supporter.  I just think it's stupid that people are basing the LHG = Madara theory off of nothing but hair, and *their hairstyles aren't actually even the same.*


Just found this one in the prediction thread lol.


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 18, 2012)

You seen the Short Haired Masked Man's face. NOT the LONG Haired Masked Man.

Show me the LHMM's face OR show me the SHMM growing his hair & THEN cutting it.

Show me EITHER!!

I doubt you've been lurkin for 6 years.
If you WERE then you would know what I'm saying is true, lmao.
This is like some NEW New Yorker tellin ME what the Inside of The Twin Towers looked like & they weren't even around for that. Stop talkin out ya ass. You don't even remember forums.narutofan.com lol


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## NW (Sep 18, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Just found this one in the prediction thread lol.


Still doesn't look alike. In fact, you've further reinforced my point.



AlphaReaver said:


> You seen the Short Haired Masked Man's face. NOT the LONG Haired Masked Man.


But Tobi IS LHG, so if I've seen his face I've seen LHG's too.



> Show me the LHMM's face OR show me the SHMM growing his hair & THEN cutting it.


I don't need to. I've already proven they're the same person. Like I said, if his hair was short, you wouldn't even be speculating him to be a different person. LHG's hair is closer to Obito's than Madara's. Why? Because they're the same person.



> I doubt you've been lurkin for 6 years.


Who says this is the only forum I've been on? 



> If you WERE then you would know what I'm saying is true, lmao.


No. If you were smarter and payed more attention to the details of the manga, you'd see that there was more pointing to Tobito early on than that. 



> You don't even remember forums.narutofan.com lol


So now you think you're my stalker?


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## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 18, 2012)

I dunno.....

It just makes sense to me that Madara met them first because his goal was lure Kisame and Itachi into this formula:

Masked Man = Madara Uchiha.

The reason he showed Kisame his face in Kirigakure to begin with was to garner his trust - so he'd never question who as under the mask the next time.

After Madara died, Obito picked up where he left off with the Masked Man and jumped into Akatsuki's ranks. So now Itachi and Kisame, along with the rest of Akatsuki are still under the guise:

Masked Man (Obito) = Madara Uchiha


Madara, Obito, and Nagato's original plan was even beyond that of Akatsuki members. It was just unfortunate that Nagato had a change of heart; reviving Madara the intended way was lost from there.


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## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Still doesn't look alike. In fact, you've further reinforced my point.


lol, look at the 2 top right pics, they are definately the same.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Sep 18, 2012)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> I dunno.....
> 
> It just makes sense to me that Madara met them first because his goal was lure Kisame and Itachi into this formula:
> 
> ...



This. 100% Old Madara used Preta Path to regain Hair Color. Once they see the Masked Man as Madara, they have no reason to question him again. So they will continue to believe he is Madara as long as his Mask is worn.

If I drive a car with tinted windows & lower the windows 1 time so that you see my face. You will assume that I am driving the car EVERY time after you see that same car with the windows up.

Why can't people get this??

Unless the manga shows us the SHMM becoming the LHMM or the LHMM reveals himself to be the SHMM, we cannot 100% confidently claim them to be the same person.

I hope some of us never have to serve on a jury, lmao.


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## NW (Sep 18, 2012)

loool3 said:


> lol, look at the 2 top right pics, they are definately the same.


LHG's hair is a bit thinner and he doesn't have those two long-ass bangs of hair going down each side of his face.



AlphaReaver said:


> This. 100% Old Madara used Preta Path to regain Hair Color.


Preta Path wouldn't work for Madara.



> Once they see the Masked Man as Madara, they have no reason to question him again. So they will continue to believe he is Madara as long as his Mask is worn.


So even when Obito took off his mask for Kisame, he still thought they were the same person even when their faces look NOTHING alike? 

Damn.



> If I drive a car with tinted windows & lower the windows 1 time so that you see my face. You will assume that I am driving the car EVERY time after you see that same car with the windows up.


So even if one day it's some old fat lady instead, they'll still think it's you? 



> Unless the manga shows us the SHMM becoming the LHMM or the LHMM reveals himself to be the SHMM, we cannot 100% confidently claim them to be the same person.


Yes, we can when we already have proof.


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## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 18, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> *So even when obito took off his mask for Kisame, he still thought they were the same person even when their faces look NOTHING alike?*




Kisame - *Looks into the eye of a Sharingan User*  to determine his appearance.

I think you understand what happened at that moment. You are an intelligent man, as far as I can tell.


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## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> LHG's hair is a bit thinner and he doesn't have those two long-ass bangs of hair going down each side of his face.


Because Kishi cant draw these 2 hairs when he has a mask on, its really funny how Kishi stops the zooming in on this panel already on the chest part;


Because these 2 hairs parts actually are there since he has no mask on in here so Kishi hides that by stopping the zooming already on the chest part.


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## NW (Sep 18, 2012)

Quickdraw777 said:
			
		

> Kisame - *Looks into the eye of a Sharingan User* to determine his appearance.
> 
> I think you understand what happened at that moment. You are an intelligent man, as far as I can tell.


Genjutsu? 

*@loool3:* Okay. So how did we see him open his right eye when it would be covered by the bang? And he stopped from cutting to the face because... well obvious reasons. The bandaged chest doesn't mean anything, Don;t you think we'd see the shape of Hashirama's face?


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## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Genjutsu?
> 
> *@loool3:* Okay. So how did we see him open his right eye when it would be covered by the bang? And he stopped from cutting to the face because... well obvious reasons. The bandaged chest doesn't mean anything, Don;t you think we'd see the shape of Hashirama's face?


lol if you consider ''showing an eye'' impossible then i dont know what to say.
Kishi shows it whenever he wants but he often draws like that, Ino has the same hair in front of her hair and yet we also see that eye sometimes.
Hashirama's face? 
If you mean on the chest then its obviously that Madara didnt awaken yet or better said he didnt had the Senju Dna's in himself yet.

1: He gets stabbed with Hashis sword, the wound stays there until he puts Hashis Dna.
2: He awakened his Rinnegan right before his dead which supports #1.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 18, 2012)

Didn't read much of this thread but I agree with the message and seeing the poll I'm glad most other people agree with it too.



loool3 said:


> lol if you consider ''showing an eye'' impossible then i dont know what to say.
> Kishi shows it whenever he wants but he often draws like that, Ino has the same hair in front of her hair and yet we also see that eye sometimes.
> Hashirama's face?
> If you mean on the chest then its obviously that Madara didnt awaken yet or better said he didnt had the Senju Dna's in himself yet.
> ...



Did the Senju DNA magically turn his hair black?


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## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Didn't read much of this thread but I agree with the message and seeing the poll I'm glad most other people agree with it too.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Senju DNA magically turn his hair black?


No?
Preta path, gain of great amount of chakra, anything news could be the reason.
And you believe a character can change his hairstyle especially a masked man off paneled without a clear sign of him being that character is possible but a hair dye cant?
Wheres the logic in that.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 18, 2012)

loool3 said:


> No?
> Preta path, gain of great amount of chakra, anything news could be the reason.
> And you believe a character can change his hairstyle especially a masked man off paneled without a clear sign of him being that character is possible but a hair dye cant?
> Wheres the logic in that.



So he gets Rinnegan, becomes young again, rules the Mist Village from the shadows, helps out in the Uchiha Massacre, then dies sometime later, despite his own statements about dying shortly after obtaining Rinnegan?

Okay. 

And what do you mean off panel? We're about to see Madara and Obito's history. You'll see for yourself Obito growing his hair out in due time.


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 18, 2012)

> But Tobi IS LHG, so if I've seen his face I've seen LHG's too.








> I don't need to. I've already proven they're the same person. Like I said, if his hair was short, you wouldn't even be speculating him to be a different person. LHG's hair is closer to Obito's than Madara's. Why? Because they're the same person.



 


1. His hair isn't short, so making stupid hypothetical situations undermines your argument. Of course we wouldn't be debating this if his hair was short, kind of like it's accepted that the Obito fought Minato even though that guy never showed his face. 

2. No one, well at least I'm not, saying that you're evidence that leads to the possibility of Long Haired Man being Obito is extremely flawed. In fact, I actually voted yes to the poll believe it or not, NOT because I truly believe he's Obito, but that I now see this as a legitimate possibility (even though the timeline would literally die on that day). But to go around spouting "FACT" "FACT" "FACT" is irresponsible, arrogant, and *annoying*. In fact, let me turn around your statement I criticized in my first point to maybe you understand:

This scenario takes place before Tobi and Sasuke meet-
"Derp...we wouldn't be speculating if Itachi was good if we had evidence for it "

I hope you catch the irony.


Actually "I don't care" 



EDIT: I saw "Senju DNA" in the posts above me...not even really reading but you guys should know that Senju DNA is the answer to everything.


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## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> So he gets Rinnegan, becomes young again, rules the Mist Village from the shadows, helps out in the Uchiha Massacre, then dies sometime later, despite his own statements about dying shortly after obtaining Rinnegan?
> 
> Okay.
> 
> And what do you mean off panel? We're about to see Madara and Obito's history. You'll see for yourself Obito growing his hair out in due time.


I dont know what your talking about but you should reread the post about the Senju Dna  , anyways i'll show you the important clues in 5 mins, will take a lil while.


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## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 18, 2012)

*AlphaReaver*  mentioned that they used excellent teamwork.

If I recall correctly, wasn't it this specific element of ninja combat Kakashi has been preaching to his students since day one?

Shit makes even more sense the more I think about it.


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 18, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Didn't read much of this thread but I agree with the message and seeing the poll I'm glad most other people agree with it too.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Senju DNA magically turn his hair black?



If you actually READ the thread you would see mention of Preta Path as a possible explanation

@ OP How can we see the bangs on his FACE if he's wearing a MASK??

How will you know it's a fat old lady through my tints??
Oh Yeah, you wouldn't! 

Ever Saw Death Race??
They had a character named Frankenstein who "Never Dies"
Why?
Because when he dies some one else gets the Mask & continues to race as Frankenstein. Noone ever sees his face, so noone actually realizes that he's not the same guy.

Same thing as a "Class Hamster"

Hamster dies,
Replace with another similar hamster,
Viola! Mr. Cuddles is an Immortal hamster.

I mean wow, is this Carrying the mantle, concept really THAT hard to consider??


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 18, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> If you actually READ the thread you would see mention of Preta Path as a possible explanation



Preta path isn't an explanation when Madara says he died soon after activating his own Rinnegan.


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 18, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Preta path isn't an explanation when Madara says he died soon after activating his own Rinnegan.



Yea, let's leave the Judging of Time to a Man who calls the Oldest Kage a Child. -_-

See how crazy that is. We have no idea what soon means. The TRUTH of the matter is that we STILL need more information to fully understand the timeline of events.


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## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

1: Madara awakened the Rinnegan right before his dead.
2: Madara had a bandage on his chest as you can see which he got from the ''deep wounds''.
3: Madara didn't had his Senju Dna yet as you can see on #2 which even further supports this.
4: Kisame knew how the real Madara looked like as he says ''show me yourself i don''t believe you'' so Obito couldn't have tricked him unless it was a Genjutsu and made himself look like as Madara.
5: ''He's long dead'' not, confirmed already.
6: The Akatsuki should have been formed around these times, now remember Tobi saying that he was the one which told Yahiko to form Akatsuki, but that was in Madara's perspective since he also said that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan but it was clearly Madara which is also confirmed. The Akatsuki has been reformed to obtain the 9 Bijuu's and awaken the Juubi for the infinity Tsukuyomi.
This means that Madara indeed did form Akatsuki, it should also makes sense if Madara was the one to invite the first few Akatsuki members. After all Madara was the one which lived up nearly 100 years so he should basically know which Shinobi's should fit into Akatsuki.
7: Dont have a lot info about this since i didnt read the manga back then but watch the anime and the filler kinda messed up my info but the 3 tails was around without being in a body, his former Jin was Yagura. If Madara was indeed the one to controle Yagura he probably made himself the Jinchiruki until his dead, it wouldnt be a surprised for the 3 tailled to be left out in the wild like that, if some extremely hiddy person like Madara was the Jinchiruki of it then it would also make sense why the 3 tailled was left like that without a sign of it.


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## ch1p (Sep 18, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Did the Senju DNA magically turn his hair black?



It would give him back vitality. It would be a visual cue, so I can buy this.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 18, 2012)

These are the only points I care to address.



loool3 said:


> 2: Madara had a bandage on his chest as you can see which he got from the ''deep wounds''.



Obito also had plenty of wounds, including the stab wound Minato gave him during their fight.



> 4: Kisame knew how the real Madara looked like as he says ''show me yourself i don''t believe you'' so Obito couldn't have tricked him unless it was a Genjutsu and made himself look like as Madara.



He didn't trick Kisame.

Kisame knew the man he met there was not Madara, which is why he killed himself.


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## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 18, 2012)

I can't believe an eye that is said to *control the very aspect of life and death*.....is being questioned on whether or not it can utilize acquired spiritual energy to combat the aging process.


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## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> These are the only points I care to address.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1: A whole bandage just for a kunai stab? 
Besides hes full of Zetsu goo so a bandage isnt even needed.
2: Doesnt play well with the ''I am Madara'' intro.

Anyways bed time, lets hope we get the answer tomorrow.

ps:

3: Obito and Edo Yagura didnt show a sign of having some past relation, it was the perfect moment for Kishi to reveal Obito being the long haired masked man.
4: Obito showed Sasuke the whole flashback of Madara to Sasuke including the long haired masked man, besides that we've never seen Obito himself in the flashback


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## Godaime Kazekage (Sep 18, 2012)

loool3 said:


> 1: A whole bandage just for a kunai stab?
> Besides hes full of Zetsu goo so a bandage isnt even needed.
> 2: Doesnt play well with the ''I am Madara'' intro.



He had bandages on his forehead versus Konan. LHG was Tobi. Just accept it.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 18, 2012)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> I can't believe an eye that is said to *control the very aspect of life and death*.....is being questioned on whether or not it can utilize acquired spiritual energy to combat the aging process.



The "eye that controls life and death" is ironically something Madara only acquired right before he died.



loool3 said:


> 1: A whole bandage just for a kunai stab?
> Besides hes full of Zetsu goo so a bandage isnt even needed.



And what's Madara's excuse?

His wound would have had many years to heal by the time of the flashback.



> 2: Doesnt play well with the ''I am Madara'' intro.



Good thing that was a lie.


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## Talis (Sep 18, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> His wound would have had many years to heal by the time of the flashback.


Ur on drugs, Obito told already 1000x that Madara's wounds were to deep which he received from Hashi. 



Godaime Kazekage said:


> He had bandages on his forehead versus Konan. LHG was Tobi. Just accept it.


That was too hide his scars on his forehead, like Kishi blackened out the other face which didnt had scars.


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## ch1p (Sep 18, 2012)

While I see the merits of the Senju DNA argument, to me Kisame makes me sway to the LHT is Tobi.

LHT says he's Madara, however Kisame doesn't believe him and demands for him to come out of the shadows. That's what he does and then we don't see neither the face (for obvious reasons) and neither Kisame's reaction to the revelation. Furthermore, Aoba is there, he'd recognise Obito, but the scene is cut right in that moment. Too many coincidences.

I still think it's  for Tobi to grow his hair out. If Kishimoto wanted to be another "mystery", he should have LHT wear a hood. But this kind of oddity is in tandem with what he has done before.


*Spoiler*: _6th movie spoiler_ 



The villain is Naruto from the alternative dimension, but so his blonde hair won't give away his identity, its black when he fuses with Obito. Totally unnecessary. Just make him wear a damn hood or a head scarf for crying out loud.




I'm voting, before the chapter comes out.


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## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 18, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> While I see the merits of the Senju DNA argument, to me the *Kisame makes me sway to the LHT is Tobi*.
> 
> LHT says he's Madara, however Kisame doesn't believe him and demands for him to come out of the shadows. That's what he does and then we don't see neither the face (for obvious reasons) and neither Kisame's reaction to the revelation. Furthermore, Aoba is there, he'd recognise Obito, but the scene is cut right in that moment. Too many coincidences.
> 
> I'm voting, before the chapter comes out.




...again, we all know what happens when one looks into the eye of a Sharingan user who is trying to manipulate you, don't we?


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## ch1p (Sep 18, 2012)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> ...again, we all know what happens when one looks into the eye of a Sharingan user who is trying to manipulate you, don't we?



Yes. That coupled with the Senju DNA giving vitality back are good reasons as to why LHT could be Madara. While I believe that LHT is most likely Obito, my preferred scenario is still Madara. I even wrote a LAP that included LHT as Madara once. Don't get me wrong, I voted yes because I was convinced and I want to do it before the chapter comes out, but I really hope my vote is for the wrong side this time.


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## Thebaxman (Sep 18, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> 1. His hair isn't short, so making stupid hypothetical situations undermines your argument. Of course we wouldn't be debating this if his hair was short, kind of like it's accepted that the Obito fought Minato even though that guy never showed his face.
> 
> 2. No one, well at least I'm not, saying that you're evidence that leads to the possibility of Long Haired Man being Obito is extremely flawed. In fact, I actually voted yes to the poll believe it or not, NOT because I truly believe he's Obito, but that I now see this as a legitimate possibility (even though the timeline would literally die on that day). But to go around spouting "FACT" "FACT" "FACT" is irresponsible, arrogant, and *annoying*. In fact, let me turn around your statement I criticized in my first point to maybe you understand:
> 
> ...



Don't worry, ObitoUchiha111 gets to read the manga in advance, everything he thinks are really facts, and they do happen because he really is Kishi


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 18, 2012)

^ That explains it


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 18, 2012)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> I can't believe an eye that is said to *control the very aspect of life and death*.....is being questioned on whether or not it can utilize acquired spiritual energy to combat the aging process.



Shit crazy! Especially since we've seen that it take Senju Cells (known for boosting Vitality) to obtain & we've already been shown someone who people compare Madara to use Preta Path to Restore Vitality & Change Hair Color. & even then we've seen Chakra been used to Restore a Youthful Appearance.

It's gonna be crazy next week when this chapter comes out. Watch them all change sides. They gonna say that they knew LHMM was Madara & that it was obvious & that they never claimed that LHMM was the same person as SHMM.


----------



## momma bravo (Sep 19, 2012)

not going to lie, OP. you made some great points and you pretty much sold me with this:



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Now, for those of you who *still* claim that LHG is Madara, how 'bout this? Why is this important, you ask? When LHG opens his right *eye*, there is a focus on it, and Kisame says "That *eye*... shining in the darkness..." Now do you get it? *Eye*, not *eyes*. Why would there be such a focus on his right eye if he was not Obito? There would have been no need for this with Madara. There's also the fact that he wore an orange (a color that Obito favors) *one* eye-holed mask. If he were truly Madara, why show only the right eye? Kisame also seems to imply that the only eye LHG has is his right one (Yes, I'm perfectly aware of Obito's lab full of sharingan, but nothing says that he always had one implanted).


bbbbuuuuut i still just want LHG to be Madara  it will make my ego feel a little better if i know that the person wtfpwned by Minato is not the same person who faked his death at VoTE.


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## NW (Sep 20, 2012)

loool3 said:


> That was too hide his scars on his forehead, like Kishi blackened out the other face which didnt had scars.


That's why he wore bandages on his chest. To cover the scars there. 



MonkeyDNaruto said:


> 1. His hair isn't short, so making stupid hypothetical situations undermines your argument.


You don;t get my point. LHG had long hair, obviously. But it was NOT the same as Madara's. It looked much more like Obito's would if he grew his out. Why? Because he's Obito.



> 2. No one, well at least I'm not, saying that you're evidence that leads to the possibility of Long Haired Man being Obito is extremely flawed. In fact, I actually voted yes to the poll believe it or not, NOT because I truly believe he's Obito, but that I now see this as a legitimate possibility (even though the timeline would literally die on that day).


I love how you give no explanation on how it would screw up the timeline. The first time LHG was CHRONOLOGICALLY shown was 10+ YEARS after obito turned evil. There is nothing wrong with the timeline. Whereas, for instance, Madara WOULD screw up the timeline. You're making bullshit up to support your argument when you're DESTROYING it. Now I suggest for your sake, that you stop debating. As it's not your thing. 



> But to go around spouting "FACT" "FACT" "FACT" is irresponsible, arrogant, and *annoying*. In fact, let me turn around your statement I criticized in my first point to maybe you understand:
> 
> This scenario takes place before Tobi and Sasuke meet-
> "Derp...we wouldn't be speculating if Itachi was good if we had evidence for it "
> ...


Except I have shown why the manga PROVES them to be the same person. It's FACT. You're ignoring actual proof and going "Doesn't matter, HAIR! ". So much butthurt in you. Seriously.



AlphaReaver said:


> Shit crazy! Especially since we've seen that it take Senju Cells (known for boosting Vitality) to obtain & we've already been shown someone who people compare Madara to use Preta Path to Restore Vitality & Change Hair Color.


Except Preta Path doesn't restore your youth. 



> & even then we've seen Chakra been used to Restore a Youthful Appearance.


If he had the ability to do that, then he would have done so way before he met Obito.



> It's gonna be crazy next week when this chapter comes out. Watch them all change sides. They gonna say that they knew LHMM was Madara & that it was obvious & that they never claimed that LHMM was the same person as SHMM.


I had no idea you were this dense.  I've stated numerous times that I won't claim I knew it all along if LHG was Madara (which he's not). I don't know about you, but I don't say I knew something all along when something I didn't know ends up being true.


----------



## Lord of Fire (Sep 20, 2012)

Seems like a dumb question but I made a valid point why did it get deleted?


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 20, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Except Preta Path doesn't restore your youth.





So perhaps *you*  have the answer as to why Nagato's whitened hair returned back to it's lush, Uzumaki red color - when he absorbed the chakra out of Bee?


----------



## Lord Stark (Sep 20, 2012)

The moment the timeline was boned we all have to accept it became completely possible that Obito was also Mizukage.


----------



## NW (Sep 20, 2012)

Lord of Fire said:


> Seems like a dumb question but I made a valid point why did it get deleted?


Cuz of spoilers. Ya gotta keep those in the Telegrams until Saturday. Or was it Sunday?



Quikdraw7777 said:


> So perhaps *you*  have the answer as to why Nagato's whitened hair returned back to it's lush, Uzumaki red color - when he absorbed the chakra out of Bee?


Yes, because he was revitalized by Bee's chakra. What does this have to do with regaining youth?



Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> The moment the timeline was boned we all have to accept it became completely possible that Obito was also Mizukage.


The timeline is perfectly fine.


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 20, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Cuz of spoilers. Ya gotta keep those in the Telegrams until Saturday. Or was it Sunday?
> 
> *Yes, because he was revitalized by Bee's chakra. What does this have to do with regaining youth?*
> 
> The timeline is perfectly fine.




Because the chakra obviously interacted with his atrophied muscles and whitened hair to revitalize them.

Funny, this is just what Madara's frail, old body seems to have at the moment - atrophied muscles and whitened hair.

Why is his case any different, sir?
Are you going to tell me because he's naturally AGED as opposed to EMACIATED?

You're really surprised to see an eye that is capable of bringing wayward souls back to the living world restore an already living person's prime physique?


----------



## NW (Sep 20, 2012)

Quickdraw7777 said:


> Because the chakra obviously interacted with his atrophied muscles and whitened hair to revitalize them.
> 
> Funny, this is just what Madara's frail, old body seems to have at the moment - atrophied muscles and whitened hair.
> 
> ...


Good point. He's not Madara, but this is still well thought out. Anyway, who is Madara gonna use Preta Path on? He can't sever the link between the Mazou and him.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 20, 2012)

It does seem unlikely LHT can be Madara, but @hair colour debate: If Nagato got his hair colour back, then there's nothing stopping Madara from getting it either. If his melanin producing cells were revived in some way, I don't see why Madara's cannot. The source of it, tailed monster chakra, is even accounted for. There were two tailed monsters that had already been sealed when we saw Gedo for the first time. It could shed some light into the two tailed monsters we never saw getting sealed (although the third will forever remain a mystery, or then we accept anime filler ).


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 20, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Good point. *He's not Madara, but this is still well thought out*. Anyway, who is Madara gonna use Preta Path on? He can't sever the link between the Mazou and him.





LOL.....that's a graceful way of telling me I'm wrong.
You do have a point though, about his issue of being unable to sever that link.


----------



## Inferno (Sep 20, 2012)

When you look at it, LHG's hair doesn't even look like Madara's...


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 20, 2012)

Question ObitoUchiha, answer me this. When did LHT interact with Kisame and how does this relate to when Obito turned "evil"? I would like manga panel type evidence please to support your date. And if you're wondering why I'm asking this, well that's because I'm lmao'ing at your idea that the timeline is perfect (even taking chapter 599 out of consideration  ).


----------



## NW (Sep 21, 2012)

Inferno said:


> When you look at it, LHG's hair doesn't even look like Madara's...


Exactly. Just because they both have long hair doesn't mean they have the same hair STYLE. Obito's long hair is thinner than Madara's and he doesn't have hose two long tuffs of hair going down both sides of his face. Also, Madara's long hair is flat towards the top, similar to Sasuke's. Obito's hair is like Naruto's whereas Madara's hair is like Sasuke's.



MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Question ObitoUchiha, answer me this. When did LHT interact with Kisame and how does this relate to when Obito turned "evil"? I would like manga panel type evidence please to support your date. And if you're wondering why I'm asking this, well that's because I'm lmao'ing at your idea that the timeline is perfect


Ibiki and Kisame were adults at that time and Obito would have been one too, as he was the same age as them. Also, Kisame met LHG about 8 years after Obito's attack on Konoha. The timeline is fine. You just don't want to accept that your bullshit assumptions are wrong.


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 21, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Exactly. *Just because they both have long hair doesn't mean they have the same hair STYLE. Obito's long hair is thinner than Madara's and he doesn't have hose two long tuffs of hair going down both sides of his face. Also, Madara's long hair is flat towards the top, similar to Sasuke's. Obito's hair is like Naruto's whereas Madara's hair is like Sasuke's.*
> 
> Ibiki and Kisame were adults at that time and Obito would have been one too, as he was the same age as them. Also, Kisame met LHG about 8 years after Obito's attack on Konoha. The timeline is fine. You just don't want to accept that your bullshit assumptions are wrong.





okay....

Have you seen Kakashi with a bare forehead, and then when he has his Forehead Protector on?

It generates two different hairstyles.

It's likely the same case with Madara. You have to remember that the mask is secured on his head by what appears to be a thick elastic band. That band could be pushing the upper hair on the back of his head upward, pressing it out of it's "natural" style.

He probably pulls those long bangs away from his face when he has the mask on becuase it's likely obscuring his view from the eye hole. The man has to see who he's manipulating, you know .


----------



## llVIU (Sep 21, 2012)

in the latest chapters it shows madara having white hair

/end thread


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 21, 2012)

llVIU said:


> in the latest chapters it shows madara having white hair
> 
> /end thread




LOL.....read a few pages back kid, you'll see our discussion on *that*, too.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 21, 2012)

> Ibiki and Kisame were adults at that time and Obito would have been one too, as he was the same age as them. Also, Kisame met LHG about 8 years after Obito's attack on Konoha. The timeline is fine. You just don't want to accept that your bullshit assumptions are wrong.





> Question ObitoUchiha, answer me this. When did LHT interact with Kisame and how does this relate to when Obito turned "evil"? *I would like manga panel type evidence* please to support your date. And if you're wondering why I'm asking this, well that's because I'm lmao'ing at your idea that the timeline is perfect





"Eight years after" for all I know, you pulled that right out of your ass. Actually, you probably did.


----------



## NW (Sep 21, 2012)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> okay....
> 
> Have you seen Kakashi with a bare forehead, and then when he has his Forehead Protector on?
> 
> ...


It wouldn't push it out that much. And there are other different parts of his hairstyle that the mask wouldn't affect. Also, Obito still had the same hairstyle when he had his mask on.  



> He probably pulls those long bangs away from his face when he has the mask on becuase it's likely obscuring his view from the eye hole. The man has to see who he's manipulating, you know .


You seem to be forgetting how big, long, and distinct those bangs were. You can't see them at all on LHG. Besides, he clearly has small bangs of his own that are visible at the top of his mask.



MonkeyDNaruto said:


> "Eight years after" for all I know, you pulled that right out of your ass. Actually, you probably did.


Math, my friend. It's a wonderful thing.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 21, 2012)

> Math, my friend. It's a wonderful thing.



Point proven. You're unable to use panels from the manga therefore this is not fact. Nice attempt though to sound educated


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 21, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> It wouldn't push it out that much. And there are other different parts of his hairstyle that the mask wouldn't affect. Also, Obito still had the same hairstyle when he had his mask on.
> 
> You seem to be forgetting how big, long, and distinct those bangs were. You can't see them at all on LHG. Besides, he clearly has small bangs of his own that are visible at the top of his mask.
> 
> .



Well......I guess I got nothing more to say on the matter....until more backstory develops..

You handed me a very good debate, sir.
Thank you. 

But I *WILL*  return.


----------



## NW (Sep 21, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Point proven. You're unable to use panels from the manga therefore this is not fact. Nice attempt though to sound educated


I'm just not gonna bother going to find those panels for you. Re-read chapter 507. Look at ADULT KISAME AND IBIKI. Obito was an adult at that time. Get over it.



Quikdraw7777 said:


> Well......I guess I got nothing more to say on the matter....until more backstory develops..
> 
> You handed me a very good debate, sir.
> Thank you.
> ...


Thanks. 

I shall await your return to pwn you again. :ho


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 21, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> I'm just not gonna bother going to find those panels for you. Re-read chapter 507. Look at ADULT KISAME AND IBIKI. Obito was an adult at that time. Get over it.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I shall await your return to pwn you again. :ho




LOL....


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## kidloco (Sep 21, 2012)

lol, still talking about the obvios things?

sorry obito when he died was young boy wiht the worst name of uchiha in the back and a rock who killer if was not from some old dude apear and ect


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 21, 2012)

> I'm just not gonna bother going to find those panels for you. Re-read chapter 507. Look at ADULT KISAME AND IBIKI. Obito was an adult at that time. Get over it.



This proves nothing lol You also haven't proven the eight years thing. You're hopeless  (By the way, don't use LOOKS bs because apparently Kishi thinks Kakashi looks like a six year old in chapter 599 )


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## NW (Sep 21, 2012)

Idiot said:


> This proves nothing lol You also haven't proven the eight years thing.


 Math.



> You're hopeless  (By the way, don't use LOOKS bs because apparently Kishi thinks Kakashi looks like a six year old in chapter 599 )


I guess Madara was actually 5 in the latest chapter.

You can't mistake an adult for a six year old.

Obito was an adult at the time, and you have nothing to prove otherwise. So stop going around saying the timeline is screwed up because things didn't go your way. Well guess what, boohoo, your timeline is wrong. Kishi's the one writing this manga, and Obito was canonically an adult at that time.

You can't do anything when faced with actual proof other than "haha you're still wrong!" 

Pathetic.


----------



## Inferno (Sep 21, 2012)

That might confirm LHG to be Obito, assuming that the top section is about him, whereas the bottom one is about Madara.


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## NW (Sep 21, 2012)

^ Incredibly great find!


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## Inferno (Sep 21, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> ^ Incredibly great find!



I try.


----------



## NW (Sep 21, 2012)

I've asked takL to do a translation of it. If he responds, I'll add both the image and the translation to the OP.


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 21, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Math.
> 
> I guess Madara was actually 5 in the latest chapter.
> 
> ...



Lol quoting me and replacing my name with "Idiot", very mature. Anyway, all I asked for was simple panel evidence of when the Mizukage scene happened with Kisame and what not so that you could prove to me that it's plausible that Obito could have grown his hair out and been in the position to do something of that sort. If not, then I'll continue to say the timeline is destroyed. I mean Kishi doesn't care about the timeline anyway, I'm just saying the timeline will be hurt. But if you choose to keep side-stepping my request with "Math" that you can't even do, then ok. I wasn't trying to tell you you were wrong, I just wanted you to prove your stupid statement, but since you just told me you can't then...you agree the timeline will be screwed. Lol, you're funny


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## NW (Sep 21, 2012)

Foolish Fool of Fooldom said:


> Lol quoting me and replacing my name with "Idiot", very mature.


Ikr. 



> Anyway, all I asked for was simple panel evidence of when the Mizukage scene happened with Kisame and what not so that you could prove to me that it's plausible that Obito could have grown his hair out and been in the position to do something of that sort.


Ibiki and Kisame are Obito's age and were adults at that time so so was Obito. How do you need panel proof for this? It's common sense. If you want to see them as adults that bad then just go read fucking chapter 507. It's not that hard and the chapter is literally filled with proof.



> If not, then I'll continue to say the timeline is destroyed.


Bullshit statement. You have no reason to say that as Obito was an adult at that time.



> I mean Kishi doesn't care about the timeline anyway, I'm just saying the timeline will be hurt.


Another bullshit statement. 



> But if you choose to keep side-stepping my request with "Math" that you can't even do, then ok. I wasn't trying to tell you you were wrong, I just wanted you to prove your stupid statement, but since you just told me you can't then...you agree the timeline will be screwed. Lol, you're funny


I'm not side stepping shit. Just read the damned chapter. Is it really that hard? Does your mother dress you in the morning?

My statement is not stupid just because your half assed assumptions are a steaming load of bullshit. Now read the chapter first if you're going to reply again.



kidloco said:


> lol, still talking about the obvios things?
> 
> sorry obito when he died was young boy wiht the worst name of uchiha in the back and a rock who killer if was not from some old dude apear and ect


Am I expected to understand this garbage?


----------



## Chibason (Sep 21, 2012)

I also agree that it must have been Obito.


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## hitokugutsu (Sep 22, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Let's take a look at LHG (Long Haired Guy).
> 
> As people have pointed out, he has the same hairstyle as Madara. Okay, well, so what? Choji has the same hair style as Madara too.
> 
> ...



I also made a thread about thus

But *Madara never stepped outta the shadows!!*

We assumed his hair was black, but he was standing in the shadows



Not until the final panel did Madara come outta the shadows. So the hair color argument is invalid. Could have very well been Old Madara 

Although I do believe LHG that met Itachi was Tobi.


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## NW (Sep 22, 2012)

hitokugutsu said:


> I also made a thread about thus
> 
> But *Madara never stepped outta the shadows!!*
> 
> ...


LHG was too tall there to be 100 year old Madara. 

So, it couldn't have possibly have been him. Not to mention the fact that Kisame recognized Obito as the one controlling Yagura.

Plus, LHG has the same sandals there as he does during the Massacre. I highly doubt that's a coincidence.


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## Relja (Sep 22, 2012)

Well, you have me convinced...


----------



## NW (Sep 22, 2012)

Added some new stuff to the OP.



Relja said:


> Well, you have me convinced...


Good. You have seen the light.


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 22, 2012)

Alright ObitoUchiha, you're unable to use panel evidence, I get it. So let me give you some baby steps to see if you can get there. I've provided a loose timeline below for you, you tell me where the Kisame Incident took place 


*Reference Point*
SoS = Start of Series (This means at the beginning of Part 1)


*Basic Timeline*
Village of the "Bloody Mist" - Started over 17 years ago. 

*Spoiler*: __ 



This epithet was created *during the reign of the Fourth Mizukage*. This means that he had a large role in creating it and at the very least, was Kage when it was established. It also must have been started over 17 years ago as it was discontinued 17 years before SoS.



The "Bloody Mist" System is Discontinued - Took place 17 years before SoS

*Spoiler*: __ 



Zabuza was 9 when he graduated from this Academy. However, to completely graduate, you need to kill your fellow graduates. However, when Zabuza took part to graduate, he killed his whole class causing the program to discontinue. However, this means Zabuzu graduated and has already proven, he was 9 when he graduated. Zabuza was 26 (same age as Kakashi) at SoS. 26 minus 9 is 17 years before SoS. However, if you read chapter 14 you'll find Kishi made even more plot holes lol  he says the graduation was cancelled in fact 10 years before the start of the series, but Zabuza is currently 26 at SoS, so he would have been 16 when he killed his graduation class  so yes, 9 is the much more plausible option.



Third Shinobi World War/Obito "dies" - Took place 16 years before the SoS

*Spoiler*: __ 



Explanation: Even though on Chapter 239 it says Kakashi Gaiden took place 10 years ago, this is obviously an error as we know that Kakashi Gaiden took place before the Kyubbi Attack, which means more than 12 years. So after some calculations we come down to this.

Kakashi was 5 when he graduated from the academy. He was 6 when he participated in the Chunin Exams and became a Chunin. Obito was 9 when he began trying the Chunin exams and finally became one at the age of 11 (so Kakashi is now 8). Two years later, Kakashi Gaiden takes place because Obito is 13 in Kakashi Gaiden. If two years pass, that means Kakashi was 10 in Kakashi Gaiden. At SoS, Kakashi is 26, subtract that by 10 and you get 16 years before SoS is when the Third Shinobi World War took place, probably a year after is when it ended.



Kyubbi Attack/Short Hair Tobi - Took place 12 years before the SoS
Uchiha Massacre/Long Hair Tobi - Took place 4 years before the SoS


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## NW (Sep 22, 2012)

^ The Kisame incident happened around the same time as the uchiha massacre. Obito would have been 23 by then, as it was 8 years after Kurama's attack. And if you READ 507, Kisame and Ibiki are adults, meaning that Obito was an adult too. If you want panel proof so bad, read the fucking chapter yourself.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 22, 2012)

Ok, need to get this off my chest: Shut. Up. I went to Chapter 507 and looked at it *a long ass time ago when you first told me to look at it*. But that doesn't change *anything* like I'll be discussing in a few.

Anyway..*where* is your evidence that the Kisame incident happened at the same time as the Uchiha Massacre (Also, Obito would have been 25 at the time of the Uchiha Massacre, 17 at the Kyubbi attack, and 13 at his "death" like I already said). You say IBIKI IBIKI IBIKI, but if you haven't noticed the Ibiki in the flash back was missing a distinct scar that he currently has at SoS on the left side of his face. See what I'm doing, I'm making *specific observations* while you spout BS. Moreoever, if you even cared to read the timeline, when Kisame encountered Long Haired Tobi, the Graduation Exams System *was still running*. If the graduation exams ended after the Kisame-Tobi meeting and the graduation exams ended before Obito's "death" then either there is a time-line error or Long Haired Tobi is not Obito. Now can you respond to my question again in a logical way before I officially lose hope in you?


----------



## NW (Sep 22, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Anyway..*where* is your evidence that the Kisame incident happened at the same time as the Uchiha Massacre (Also, Obito would have been 25 at the time of the Uchiha Massacre, 17 at the Kyubbi attack, and 13 at his "death" like I already said).


Wouldn't he have been 15 at the time of his attack on Konoha?



> You say IBIKI IBIKI IBIKI, but if you haven't noticed the Ibiki in the flash back was missing a distinct scar that he currently has at SoS on the left side of his face. See what I'm doing, I'm making *specific observations* while you spout BS.


I'm perfectly aware that he was missing his scar, but that doesn't affect AGE. It's BS to assume a scar affect how old you are. Specific observations? Who's the one who wrote that huge-ass OP? 



> Moreoever, if you even cared to read the timeline, when Kisame encountered LHG, the Graduation Exams System *were still running*.


Who cares if the graduation systems were still running if Kisame was an adult at the time? You expect me to believe that Kisame was 10 in that flashback? What is your problem? Kisame was an adult at the time. Obito was the same age, so he would have been an adult as well. How do you even argue against something like that? The timeline is perfectly fine.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 22, 2012)

> Wouldn't he have been 15 at the time of his attack on Konoha?



Obito "dies" 16 years before SoS, he was 13.
The Kyubbi attack occurs 12 years before SoS, Obito was 17.
The Uchiha Massacre occurs 4 years before SoS, Obito was 25.
Obito was 29 at SoS.
Obito is currently 31 after time-skip.




> I'm perfectly aware that he was missing his scar, but that doesn't affect AGE. It's BS to assume a scar affect how old you are. Specific observations? Who's the one who wrote that huge-ass OP?



Oh facepalm, since when did I say scars affect ages? I was merely pointing out that Ibiki is not a photocopy of what he is at SoS which you seem to imply.




> Who cares if the graduation systems were still running if Kisame was an adult at the time? You expect me to believe that Kisame was 10 in that flashback? What is your problem? Kisame was an adult at the time. Obito was the same age, so he would have been an adult as well. How do you even argue against something like that? The timeline is perfectly fine.



You don't understand. Kisame graduated from the acadamy, later on he runs into Tobi. He says that the graduation exams are still running. Since they're running, that means this is still over 17 years ago. Yes, Obito is the same age as Kisame, but that doesn't mean anything. Kisame is not even human-looking, so why are you trying to play the "he looked like an adult" card. He looks like a damn *monster* if you ask me. Anyway, 17 years before SoS, Kisame was 12. No big deal. Dosu looked like an old man at 12.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 22, 2012)

> Wouldn't he have been 15 at the time of his attack on Konoha?



Obito "dies" 16 years before SoS, he was 13.
The Kyubbi attack occurs 12 years before SoS, Obito was 17.
The Uchiha Massacre occurs 4 years before SoS, Obito was 25.
Obito was 29 at SoS.
Obito is currently 31 after time-skip.




> I'm perfectly aware that he was missing his scar, but that doesn't affect AGE. It's BS to assume a scar affect how old you are. Specific observations? Who's the one who wrote that huge-ass OP?



Oh facepalm, since when did I say scars affect ages? I was merely pointing out that Ibiki is not a photocopy of what he is at SoS which you seem to imply.




> Who cares if the graduation systems were still running if Kisame was an adult at the time? You expect me to believe that Kisame was 10 in that flashback? What is your problem? Kisame was an adult at the time. Obito was the same age, so he would have been an adult as well. How do you even argue against something like that? The timeline is perfectly fine.



You don't understand. Kisame graduated from the acadamy, later on he runs into Tobi. He says that the graduation exams are still running. Since they're running, that means this is still over 17 years ago. Yes, Obito is the same age as Kisame, but that doesn't mean anything. Kisame is not even human-looking, so why are you trying to play the "he looked like an adult" card. He looks like a damn *monster* if you ask me. Anyway, 17 years before SoS, Kisame was 12. No big deal. Dosu looked like an old man at 12.


----------



## NW (Sep 22, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Obito "dies" 16 years before SoS, he was 13.
> The Kyubbi attack occurs 12 years before SoS, Obito was 17.
> The Uchiha Massacre occurs 4 years before SoS, Obito was 25.
> Obito was 29 at SoS.
> Obito is currently 31 after time-skip.


I'm still not quite sure how you came to that conclusion. I guess I'll re-read your previous post on the matter.



> Oh facepalm, since when did I say scars affect ages? I was merely pointing out that Ibiki is not a photocopy of what he is at SoS which you seem to imply.


I didn't imply that at all, but whatever. He was still an adult.






> You don't understand. Kisame graduated from the acadamy, later on he runs into Tobi. He says that the graduation exams are still running. Since they're running, that means this is still over 17 years ago.


When did he say the graduation exams were still running?



> Yes, Obito is the same age as Kisame, but that doesn't mean anything. Kisame is not even human-looking, so why are you trying to play the "he looked like an adult" card. He looks like a damn *monster* if you ask me.


That's not going to make him look freaking 30 years old at the age of 12. He looked exactly the same as he did recently. He was an adult.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 22, 2012)

> When did he say the graduation exams were still running?



My bad he doesn't mention them, he just refers to how he first had to kill his "teammates" (alluding to when he participated in the graduation exams) in chapter 507 but says nothing of it's discontinuation making me assume it was still running.




> That's not going to make him look freaking 30 years old at the age of 12. He looked exactly the same as he did recently. He was an adult.



Itachi "looked" the same when he met Tobi and when he fought Sasuke.
Kakashi "looked" like a fifteen year old in Chapter 599.
Dosu "looked" like an old ass man in the Chunin Exams.
Did I forget to mention that Kabuto, who was 19/20 at the time of Part 1, "looked" just the same age as Naruto and co. when participating in the Chunin Exams?

Get the point? You're argument relies on looks. You're saying that since Kisame looked like how he does now, the events of him meeting with Tobi must have happened recently before the SoS. My point is that using looks to determine age is unreliable evidence, especially when talking about Kisame, who *I* personally think looks visibly younger in the flashback, especially the scene where he kills his comrades. On the other hand, we have my argument that relies on concrete numbers which we can deduce to find out exactly when certain events happened. If they go contrary to this there was either purposely left out information, a plot hole, or an error.


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## NW (Sep 22, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> My bad he doesn't mention them, he just refers to how he first had to kill his "teammates" (alluding to when he participated in the graduation exams) in chapter 507 but says nothing of it's discontinuation.


Oh, alright then.



> Itachi "looked" the same when he met Obito and when he fought Sasuke.


No he didn't. He was taller than that.



> Kakashi "looked" like a fifteen year old in Chapter 599.


..........



> Dosu "looked" like an old ass man in the Chunin Exams.


What? No he didn't. He looked perfectly young.



> Did I forget to mention that Kabuto, who was 19/20 at the time of Part 1, we as the viewers thought he was just the same age as Naruto and co.?


That's Kabuto for you. 

Anyway, Kisame, at 12, would not have been that tall, that muscular, and have such a grown looking face. 



> Get the point, man?


Kind of.


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 23, 2012)

> ..........



Fine, a 14 year old 




But anyway, whatever, now that I physically wrote down the timeline, I'm more interested in seeing how this will play out. If Kisame met Tobi before the Third War or after the Kyubbi Attack (which I find unreasonable). Also, more evidence it occured before the Third War is that Yahiko founded Akatsuki in the Third War, though evidence shows that Akatsuki originated from the Mist (I believe this was mentioned in the kage summit). This could foreshadow that Kisame was the first trusted member of Madara and then Madara went on to "spur" Yahiko into creating Akatsuki (Chapter 509, Page 4).

EDIT: You know what, I'm posting my timeline in a new thread


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## NW (Sep 23, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Fine, a 14 year old
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, damn. I never thought of it like that. Good point.

But Obito was still an adult then.


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## MonkeyDNaruto (Sep 23, 2012)

> Well, damn. I never thought of it like that. Good point.








> But Obito was still an adult then.






But if Long-Haired Madara does end up being Obito, I'm interested in learning where he gets his hair done


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## Quikdraw7777 (Sep 23, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> .......................well, fuck.




Oh?

Are we admitting defeat?
LOL


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## NW (Sep 23, 2012)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> Oh?
> 
> Are we admitting defeat?
> LOL


I refuse to think he is Madara. I fucking refuse!


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## Inferno (Sep 23, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> I refuse to think he is Madara. I fucking refuse!



Most everything else in your OP, other than the hair, fits. So you should be good, I think.


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## NW (Sep 23, 2012)

^ Yeah. LHG's hair and Madara's don't look THAT alike. It was just that one angle. 

........


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 23, 2012)

Wait.

Few Things!!

1) Madara has been Underground at some point.

2) If you look at that Page where the LHMM meets Kisame,
Doesn't that environment LOOK like a Sewer?

Maybe there's a greater infrastructure in the ninja world

3) ROOT is UNDERGROUND
Maybe they use this sewer system as well

4) Root & Bloody Mist have similar methods

5) Madara is MISSING a RIGHT Eye

6)Danzo "snatches" Shisui's RIGHT Eye

7) Shisui's EYE has Kotoamatsukami

8) LHMM uses a Right Eye to cast Kotoamatsukami

9) Danzo is Present when Nagato goes berserk & Syncs to Gedo Mazo, thus Nagato puts High Potency Chakra in the GM(maybe enough to rejuvenate Madara) (a sort of youth transferrence tech)

10) ALL of this is BEFORE the Uchiha Massacre (Which was assisted by LHMM & incited by Danzo)

11) Danzo later gains Sharingan implants via Orochimaru

12) Oro & Kabuto gain Madara DNA

13) Itachi THEN joins Akatsuki & Oro already knows about Uchiha's link to Rikudohood





I Propose that LHMM IS Madara, also I believe LHMM was working with Danzo & Hanzo & Orochimaru & Obito & Itachi at one point in time. I think Danzo took Shisui's eye & offered it to Madara & Madara used it to control Yagura & recruited Kisame. I think LHMM told Yahiko to form Akatsuki & then sent Danzo to tip off Hanzo about Nagato in order to force his hand & make him synch. Maybe Madara even left Nagato in the Rain so he can form BONDS & then Grow, by LOSING them. Danzo didn't even budge when Pain came to Konoha & he stopped reinforcements from arriving. Oro was always with Danzo and Itachi & Shisui both worked for Danzo.

Something is going on behind the scenes that we are not being told about, regarding Root's Collaborative work with Orochimaru & Akatsuki. The Long Haired Masked Man HAS to be Madara.
He's using Obito as an heir to the Idea & Symbolism of Uchiha Madara. Like when Bruce Wayne retires & leaves Robin as the new Batman. The world would never know the difference.


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## T-Bag (Sep 23, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> ^ Yeah. LHG's hair and Madara's don't look THAT alike. It was just that one angle.
> 
> ........



sometimes he draws it less, sometimes more puffy. you're lookingtoo much into it. the avg person wouldnt be able to tell any difference


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## NW (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh, great. YOU'RE back. 

But you brought forth some good points so I'll counter them the best I can.



AlphaReaver said:


> Wait.
> 
> Few Things!!
> 
> ...


Nope. Not really. And why would Kisame be underground?



> Maybe there's a greater infrastructure in the ninja world


That happens to be Madara's cave and no one noticed him and a huge ass statue there?



> 3) ROOT is UNDERGROUND
> Maybe they use this sewer system as well


Wherever Madara was, it sure didn't look like a sewer. It was all rocky.



> 4) Root & Bloody Mist have similar methods


True.



> 5) Madara is MISSING a RIGHT Eye


Yup.



> 6)Danzo "snatches" Shisui's RIGHT Eye


Uh huh. 



> 7) Shisui's EYE has Kotoamatsukami


Mm hmm.



> 8) LHMM uses a Right Eye to cast Kotoamatsukami


Whatever he used wasn't Kotoamatsukami. He was able to talk through Yagura. Kotoamatsukami wouldn't allow him to do that.



> 9) Danzo is Present when Nagato goes berserk & Syncs to Gedo Mazo, thus Nagato puts High Potency Chakra in the GM(maybe enough to rejuvenate Madara) (a sort of youth transferrence tech)


As soon as Gedo Mazou came out of the ground, Madara would have died. 



> 10) ALL of this is BEFORE the Uchiha Massacre (Which was assisted by LHMM & incited by Danzo)


Yep.



> 11) Danzo later gains Sharingan implants via Orochimaru


Yup.



> 12) Oro & Kabuto gain Madara DNA


Yeah.



> 13) Itachi THEN joins Akatsuki & Oro already knows about Uchiha's link to Rikudohood


Yeah.



> I Propose that LHMM IS Madara, also I believe LHMM was working with Danzo & Hanzo & Orochimaru & Obito & Itachi at one point in time.


Lol, overkill much? 



> I think Danzo took Shisui's eye & offered it to Madara & Madara used it to control Yagura & recruited Kisame.


SO, Danzo stole Shisui's eye, implanted it into him, gave it to Madara, and then got it back from him? Sounds a little elaborate, lol. 



> I think LHMM told Yahiko to form Akatsuki & then sent Danzo to tip off Hanzo about Nagato in order to force his hand & make him synch. Maybe Madara even left Nagato in the Rain so he can form BONDS & then Grow, by LOSING them. Danzo didn't even budge when Pain came to Konoha & he stopped reinforcements from arriving. Oro was always with Danzo and Itachi & Shisui both worked for Danzo.


Wow. 



> Something is going on behind the scenes that we are not being told about, regarding Root's Collaborative work with Orochimaru & Akatsuki. The Long Haired Masked Man HAS to be Madara.


He doesn't HAVE to be Madara. if LHG wasn't obito, why did Kisame recognize him as the same person he met controlling Yagura. Why did Obito say he hadn't seen Danzo since the Uchiha Massacre? How did Itachi set an amaterasu trap to go off at the sight of obito's sharingan? How does obito know all about Itachi and why is this point stressed so much??

Overall, really nice evidence you found. It's kinda flawed, but good work nonetheless. It's good to see you actually brought something up to the table this time other than hair.


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