# Yhwach ( Clorox) Vs Fate series servats



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 17, 2017)

Yhwach gets dropped in the Fate series and decides to go Nazi on their asses in a 1 vs 1 gauntlet.
1. Yhwach vs F/S/N + F/HA servants
2. Yhwach vs F/Apo servants
3. Yhwach vs Fate/SF servants
4. Yhwach vs Fate/ Proto + Fragments servants
5. Yhwach vs Fate/GO servants
6. Yhwach vs Fate/Extra servants
7. Yhwach vs Fate/Kaleid servants + the pesudo magical girl servants
8. Let's call it a bonus scenario: Yhwach vs Dead Apostles
Mentality: IC
Knowledge : None for both parts
Location : DT arena.
Distance : 50 meters.
How far does Yhwach go in each scenario ?
Discuss please


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## CrossTheHorizon (Aug 17, 2017)

Doesn't Ywach have country stats? I don't think non-Extra Servants ever got that high.


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## Xhominid (Aug 17, 2017)

Karna  and Gilgamesh definitely have a shot of beating Yhwach. Seevants with great hack could also have a good chance


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## saint rider 890 (Aug 17, 2017)

King Hassan can stand a chance against him


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 18, 2017)

CrossTheHorizon said:


> Doesn't Ywach have country stats? I don't think non-Extra Servants ever got that high


Quetz has a continental-ish calc, there's also the remnant of Ishtar who cause a 800 km typhoon or some shit like that+ Enkidu's continental shit and Gill EE which couldn't be blocked completely by a counter-force powered continental shield.
There are also servants who have extremely broken powers  and who really don't need big DC like King Hassan. 
That's why i made this thread anyway to see what's what.


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## Sablés (Aug 18, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Quetz has a continental-ish calc


She doesn't and Babylon Quetz is no servant.



> There's also the remnant of Ishtar who cause a 800 km typhoon or some shit like that+ Enkidu's continental shit and Gill EE which couldn't be blocked completely by a counter-force powered continental shield.



That was Gugalanna, not Ishtar.

Top-tier servants should have comparable or higher DC but that's with their big guns. Yhwach can wipe them out with a thought thanks to tk and has the hax to take the initiative. You'd need the top-tiers of Nasu to beat him reliably.


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## Xhominid (Aug 18, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Quetz has a continental-ish calc, there's also the remnant of Ishtar who cause a 800 km typhoon or some shit like that+ Enkidu's continental shit and Gill EE which couldn't be blocked completely by a counter-force powered continental shield.
> There are also servants who have extremely broken powers  and who really don't need big DC like King Hassan.
> That's why i made this thread anyway to see what's what.



King Hassan most definitely can kill Yhwach permanently if he's able to grant the concept of death to immortals. But I'm not sure if he has any real answers to The Almighty to get himself into that position in the first place.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 18, 2017)

Sablés said:


> She doesn't and Babylon Quetz is no servant





Sablés said:


> That was Gugalanna, not Ishtar


I didn't say Ishtar did it.I forgot the name and just called it a remnant of Ishtar


Sablés said:


> Top-tier servants should have comparable or higher DC but that's with their big guns. Yhwach can wipe them out with a thought and has the hax to take the initiative


Despite tot tier servants being faster than him ? And how  the hell does he kill them with a thought ?


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## Xhominid (Aug 18, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Despite tot tier servants being faster than him ? And how  the hell does he kill them with a thought ?



The Almighty says fuck you to being faster than him if he can alter the future to fuck your shit up and force it to be the present...


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## Sablés (Aug 18, 2017)

I know the feat, It was discussed elsewhere and deemed incorrect due to various problems with the calc's assumptions.



> I didn't say Ishtar did it.I forgot the name and just called it a remnant of Ishtar


...
Ishtar/Filla isnt the one with the feat. its the bull of heaven she's bringing there.



> Despite tot tier servants being faster than him ? And how  the hell does he kill them with a thought ?


They're not for one? Yhwach's speed is dead on with theirs and is stacked by future manipulation.

And im pretty sure i mentioned TK.


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## Crimson King (Aug 18, 2017)

High/Top tiers speedblitz


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 18, 2017)

Titan Altera destroys his civilization


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## SnowFlame (Aug 18, 2017)

I have a question about Enkidu's space jump. Is there a reason that you're using the high end for the feat over the low end?


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## Fang (Aug 18, 2017)

saint rider 890 said:


> King Hassan can stand a chance against him



>King Hassan
>stand a chance

He would murder Youwack.


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## Big Barrel (Aug 18, 2017)

i think ywank would shove his hairy and wrinkly penis up there bums. without lube

lille barrel could do it too


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## Crimson King (Aug 18, 2017)

SnowFlame said:


> I have a question about Enkidu's space jump. Is there a reason that you're using the high end for the feat over the low end?


Because you can still see the planet clearly if you use low end. In Enkidu's NP, the planet is nowhere in sight

But hey, Servants can dodge lightspeed Excaliblasts


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## CrossTheHorizon (Aug 18, 2017)

Crimson King said:


> Because you can still see the planet clearly if you use low end. In Enkidu's NP, the planet is nowhere in sight
> 
> But hey, Servants can dodge lightspeed Excaliblasts



Shut up that was false equivalency and you know it


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## CrossTheHorizon (Aug 18, 2017)

Granted it was my fault for letting you drag me into talking about Saber at all but that was still cruel and unnecessary

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 18, 2017)

SnowFlame said:


> I have a question about Enkidu's space jump. Is there a reason that you're using the high end for the feat over the low end?


low end was using the shortest distance definition of space, which would mean earth would still be visible but in the scene itself earth is nowhere close to being seen.


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## bitethedust (Aug 19, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> *The Almighty says fuck you to being faster than him* if he can alter the future to fuck your shit up and force it to be the present...



Coming soon lolywack vs the combined might of Flash and the Shrike

Reactions: Like 3


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## Nep Heart (Aug 19, 2017)

Would very much enjoy seeing You're Wack being added as The Shrike's new decoration to the Tree of Pain actually.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 19, 2017)

With Dead Apostles you mean the 27 ancestors, because the regular vampires are lower than servants, right?

And of those the only important would be Crimson Moon, Zeltretch, ORT and Primate Murder. If he defeats those then Servants are irrelevant.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Crimson Moon, Zeltretch, ORT and Primate Murder


Yeah, no. Altrouge,Einashe's Forest, Tatari+ the replamecements of Tatari, Merem and Roa (not technically an apostle, but still works) are also relevant. There might be others but i'm to lazy to look it up.
As a note i'm gonna pull out  ORT  because it rapes.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 19, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, no. Altrouge,Einashe's Forest, Tatari+ the replamecements of Tatari, Merem and Roa (not technically an apostle, but still works) are also relevant. There might be others but i'm to lazy to look it up.
> As a note i'm gonna pull out ORT because it rapes.



But Altrouge has only been mentioned and the Roa we did get to see fight is really weak, the forest and Tatari are more annoying than strong.

What where Merem's powers again?


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> But Altrouge has only been mentioned


Merem thinks that he  can't even kill one of her bodyguards without sacrificing himself + she is ranked in the top ten + she own Primate Moon.. so she should be pretty good.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Roa we did get to see fight is really weak


He> servants so... 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> the forest and Tatari are more annoying than strong


And ? Can Yhwach deal with this annoying assholes ? That's what we're tryin to find out here


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> What where Merem's powers again


He basically replaced his limbs with 4 Divine-class Beasts that are at least as strong as an Apostle and have different abilities like shape-shifting and weapon creation IIRC


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 19, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Merem thinks that he can't even kill one of her bodyguards without sacrificing himself + she is ranked in the top ten + she own Primate Moon.. so she should be pretty good.



All she has is:
-Lost to Roa
-Cut Arc's hair

Primate Murder is stronger than her.



reyatsuguy said:


> He> servants so...



Servant's are weak, they are dangerous because of their NP which is why "Servants vs Vampires" is always answered as compatibility based.



reyatsuguy said:


> And ? Can Yhwach deal with this annoying assholes ? That's what we're tryin to find out here



Yes, they can't kill him or do anything to him, Ywach can get rid of them without killing them (because that can't be done) or he can just wait for them to dissipate/hibernate again.



reyatsuguy said:


> He basically replaced his limbs with 4 Divine-class Beasts that are at least as strong as an Apostle and have different abilities like shape-shifting and weapon creation IIRC



Reading from the lolwikia it seems their only notable trait is that they are 200m long and one is a giant robot maid with weapons or something.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> All she has is:
> -Lost to Roa
> -Cut Arc's hair





lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Servant's are weak, they are dangerous because of their NP which is why "Servants vs Vampires" is always answered as compatibility based


This is a testament to Roa's power not to Altrouge's weakness.Don't forget that he has some Arcueid's power inside him and he took her RM like a champ + all of the shit that Ciel uses is his shit. Roa is by no means a pusshover here.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Yes, they can't kill him or do anything to him, Ywach can get rid of them without killing them (because that can't be done) or he can just wait for them to dissipate/hibernate again





lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Well, can he defeat Ywach


No idea..that's why i created this thread.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 19, 2017)

Zelretch just clones himself or shoves Yhwach into another dimension.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 19, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Zelretch just clones himself or shoves Yhwach into another dimension.



Yhwach has dimension travel


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## Sablés (Aug 19, 2017)

Not sure why DAAs are here when we've seen fuck all from the lot of them


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## Sablés (Aug 19, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> she is ranked in the top ten


rankings arent power based

but yes altrouge should be strong as she's still a TA.


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## TheBlackDragonz (Aug 21, 2017)

I know I'm probably going to be missing something, but just to give my two cents on this...

- Karna might be able to have Kavacha and Kundala tank hax long enough with its own effect for Karna to get close and kill.
- King Hassan dominated Tiamat, and iirc disguised himself as a pre-Flood king, and iirc he has hints of being immortal.
- I don't remember or not if reaction speed was a seperate speed or not (here), so just in case it is, does Yhwach have the reactions to actually make use of his precog?
- For SF there is Pale Rider, not sure how that would work.
- Speaking of, how exactly does Enkidu use the Counter Force? Is it only as that shield/offensive NP, or could Enkidu use it against Yhwach directly?
- Lastly was just double checking on something, iirc I recall reading something about Solomon or Goetia having something that strips away the magic of humanity or something. If that actually existed, would it work on Yhwach's Almighty?
- Ozy in the temple. What's the limits there? King Hassan beheaded him as mentioned earlier, but he regened from it inside the temple.

This last one isnt really a point but more a curiosity, but does Gawain have the green girdle/belt thing from his encounter with the Green Knight? If so, does it do anything and will it help?


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## Sablés (Aug 21, 2017)

TheBlackDragonz said:


> I- Karna might be able to have Kavacha and Kundala tank hax long enough with its own effect for Karna to get close and kill.



Yhwach's DC is mid triple digits country-level at the most casual. Even with only 10% efficiency, he'd crush Karna. No hax required on his part.



> - King Hassan dominated Tiamat, and iirc disguised himself as a pre-Flood king, and iirc he has hints of being immortal.



Tiamat had to be downsized by other factors for him to give her the concept of death and even then he wouldn't beat her. King Hassan is suggested to have stupid high affinity for killing shit so if he got a hit in, he'd get the job done. That's unlikely to happen though since precog and future manipulation would let Yhwach attack first.



> - I don't remember or not if reaction speed was a seperate speed or not (here), so just in case it is, does Yhwach have the reactions to actually make use of his precog?



Mach 5600. Pretty much dead on with top-tier servants.



> - Speaking of, how exactly does Enkidu use the Counter Force? Is it only as that shield/offensive NP, or could Enkidu use it against Yhwach directly?



Enuma Elish is an attack.



> - Lastly was just double checking on something, iirc I recall reading something about Solomon or Goetia having something that strips away the magic of humanity or something. If that actually existed, would it work on Yhwach's Almighty?



Not what he meant. Magic will go as is but there won't be another like Solomon or something to that affect, been a while.



> - Ozy in the temple. What's the limits there? King Hassan beheaded him as mentioned earlier, but he regened from it inside the temple.


Yhwach negates regen  by fixing it so something will remain broken in every future . He would just need to think to break down RT. His TK lifted a  20 km~ landmass several thousand kms into the air.

King Hassan decapitated Ozy as a warning and even then, his head kept falling off...I mean, neck problems yo.


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## TheBlackDragonz (Aug 21, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Yhwach's DC is mid triple digits country-level at the most casual. Even with only 10% efficiency, he'd crush Karna. No hax required on his part.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Goodness. My best bet was Kavacha.

How did he lose again, if he can do all these amazing things?


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## Sablés (Aug 21, 2017)

TheBlackDragonz said:


> Goodness. My best bet was Kavacha.
> 
> How did he lose again, if he can do all these amazing things?


Kubo used hack 

plot arrow was super effective


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## TheBlackDragonz (Aug 21, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Kubo used hack
> 
> plot arrow was super effective



Ah. So he basically wrote himself into a corner and had to bullshit his way out. Lovely.

If that's the case though, Shirou or Arturia should win. Dont they have heavy plot armor?


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## shade0180 (Aug 21, 2017)

Shirou has plot arrows.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 21, 2017)

TheBlackDragonz said:


> How did he lose again, if he can do all these amazing things?



Plot induced vegetable status

never let it be said kubo is a good author


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## Sherlōck (Aug 21, 2017)

KUbo was forced to end his series early. 

Or so I heard.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 21, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> KUbo was forced to end his series early.
> 
> Or so I heard.



it seems that way though I doubt there'll ever be a clear answer from the higher ups about it (Cause it'd be awful for business)

kubo still deserves 100% of the blame for choosing to structure it the way he did.


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## Cain1234 (Aug 21, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Shirou has plot arrows.




Can probably make the plot arrow out of something if he knows about it.

Infact if he works with Gilg I know he can trace Uryu's arrow.


The problem is making Gilg work with Shiro, is that possible?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 21, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> Can probably make the plot arrow out of something if he knows about it.
> 
> Infact if he works with Gilg I know he can trace Uryu's arrow.
> 
> ...



The arrow can only be made of silver from the hearts of the Quincy that died in the soul selections, also no knowledge.


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## shade0180 (Aug 21, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The arrow can only be made of silver from the hearts of the Quincy that died in the soul selections



like that will stop shirou, lol shirou is tracing legendary weapons out of thin air.

 plot arrow is going to happen whether you like it or not. Nasu already provided him with it.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 21, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> like that will stop shirou, lol shirou is tracing legendary weapons out of thin air.
> 
> plot arrow is going to happen whether you like it or not. Nasu already provided him with it.



He can only trace things he has actually seen, they are downgraded and a copy wouldn't have any effect.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He can only trace things he has actually seen, they are downgraded and a copy wouldn't have any effect.


Archer can copy Gae Bolg and use it so no. Although i do doubt that Shirou could trace a version strong enough to actually effect Yhwach fully considering he has no knowledge and hasnt seen Still Silver.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 22, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Archer can copy Gae Bolg and use it so no. Although i do doubt that Shirou could trace a version strong enough to actually effect Yhwach fully considering he has no knowledge and hasnt seen Still Silver.



Shiro has seen Gae Bolg, that's why he supposedly can make it..

Main reason a copy wouldn't work is that the point of the arrow seems to be using own power against him, a copy made without that would completely fail.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 22, 2017)

Shirou has to see something before he can trace it later so he can't trace the plotarrow unless someone gives it to him first.


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## shade0180 (Aug 22, 2017)

Er why are you guys even taking plot arrows seriously.


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## Cain1234 (Aug 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The arrow can only be made of silver from the hearts of the Quincy that died in the soul selections, also no knowledge.



This material exists, shiro can summon any material that exists, knowledge is not required. The magic-curcuits fixes any decrepencies and summon both silver and souls connected to the said weapon.

His standard signature two chinese swords is made from meteorite and the souls of two human lovers. Knowledge is not required to trace it only its existance.


So yes Shiro and EMIYA can summon plot arrow.


Also Hassan sets Azerael on his ass.


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## Sablés (Aug 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> This material exists, shiro can summon any material that exists



He can't copy ea or divine constructs.


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## Cain1234 (Aug 22, 2017)

Sablés said:


> He can't copy ea or divine constructs.



But there is nothing divine about the Quincy and plot arrow.

And like I said, the material for EA does not exist, thus he can't make it.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> But there is nothing divine about the Quincy and plot arrow.



what defines divinity in nasuverse?


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## Cain1234 (Aug 22, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> what defines divinity in nasuverse?



Being positively believed by humans and other spirits. idk


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 22, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> what defines divinity in nasuverse?


Divinity is a skill that stems from whatever amount of "Godhood"you posses or how powerfull your link to godly spirits is . For example Tamamo No Mae has an A rank divinity stat coming from her connection with Amaterasu. Gilgamesh has an A rank stat as well for being a demigod and for being the son of a Godess.The rank of divinty drops down if you  a have demonic /beast heritage.
As a skill, it offers several bonusses like reducing certain special defences or increases on overall power. In some cases it can be a weakness, an example being Servants with divinity generally get screwed by Gillgamesh's Enkidu. The higher your divinity stat, the harder it will be for you to break from the chains.

Gods can be split into two categories:
1. Natural phenomena possesing personalities and wills , like the Mesopotamian Gods
2. Gods that became gods after becoming the objects of worshiping. Humans or something close to humans that have been reborn as gods after death like certain heroes .


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## Sablés (Aug 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> But there is nothing divine about the Quincy and plot arrow.


I don't care. You were blatantly lying about Shirou's limits and are trying to somehow validate what was essentially a joke.



Cain1234 said:


> Being positively believed by humans and other spirits.


The  prototype of the divine constructs belonged to an alien God nobody knows the name of.

Ea predates the planet's existence and is again a sword of unknown origin.

So uh, no. Not always.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 22, 2017)

Shirou tracing the arrow is a NLF..why the fuck is this even discussed ?
What's next, Shirou tracing Slash Emperor or some shit ?


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## shade0180 (Aug 22, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Shirou tracing the arrow is a NLF..why the fuck is this even discussed ?



because someone taking the joke I spouted seriously for some reason or another.


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## Xhominid (Aug 22, 2017)

bitethedust said:


> Coming soon lolywack vs the combined might of Flash and the Shrike



You should have known exactly what I meant by saying that...though I should have thought of that.


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 22, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> You should have known exactly what I meant by saying that...*though I should have thought of that.*


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## Xhominid (Aug 22, 2017)

Whatever smartass.

Karna and Gilgamesh was also my best bets to beat Yhwach too...
Is there any Servants that can use High Tier Illusions on par with Kyoka Suigetsu? Because they can be effective in fucking with Yhwach for a little until they can find a way to kill him.


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 22, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Whatever smartass.
> 
> Karna and Gilgamesh was also my best bets to beat Yhwach too...
> Is there any Servants that can use High Tier Illusions on par with Kyoka Suigetsu? Because they can be effective in fucking with Yhwach for a little until they can find a way to kill him.


No I thought you were implying that Almighty against Flash and Shrike was still a good idea.


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## Cain1234 (Aug 22, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Shirou tracing the arrow is a NLF..why the fuck is this even discussed ?
> What's next, Shirou tracing Slash Emperor or some shit ?





Also I didn't say that it was only Shiro who can make plot arrow.

I said it was Shiro working with Gilg they can properly replicate the arrow.


Gilg if he works with Shiro can let him use his knowledge giving Noble Phantasm I don't remember what it is called to help make the Final Arrow that killed Yawah.


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## shade0180 (Aug 22, 2017)

Gil can't pull shit out of his ass if it doesn't exist in his treasury.

Same reason why he can't do shit to avalon.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 22, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Gil can't pull shit out of his ass if it doesn't exist in his treasury


Gill could probably pull something like that out of his ass in his series since he's GILGAMESH... outside Fate.. nah


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 22, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> Also I didn't say that it was only Shiro who can make plot arrow.
> 
> I said it was Shiro working with Gilg they can properly replicate the arrow


Dude, do you even read ? This is a gauntlet. It's 1vs1 , no teamwork.
So the argument is pointless either way.
I made this thread  to find out who's the strongest servant/DA Yhwach could beat. Teamwork would make this far less balanced. If i wanted a stomp i would have put Yhwach against a Type or against fucking Velber or something.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 22, 2017)

i was more pointing out that even if Shirou has seen the arrow, lmao at him successfully making it considering what that shit it


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## Tenzen12 (Aug 22, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Whatever smartass.
> Karna and Gilgamesh was also my best bets to beat Yhwach too...
> Is there any Servants that can use High Tier Illusions on par with Kyoka Suigetsu? Because they can be effective in fucking with Yhwach for a little until they can find a way to kill him.



Prelati could do it very likely. It's so strong illusion it actually warp reality. Limit is few only few days though.


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## Qinglong (Aug 22, 2017)

Merlin's illusions are just as powerful as Prelati's


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## Xhominid (Aug 22, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> No I thought you were implying that Almighty against Flash and Shrike was still a good idea.



Wasn't trying to imply that at all, I just forgot to actually think that sentence through.



reyatsuguy said:


> Dude, do you even read ? This is a gauntlet. It's 1vs1 , no teamwork.
> So the argument is pointless either way.
> I made this thread  to find out who's the strongest servant/DA Yhwach could beat. Teamwork would make this far less balanced. If i wanted a stomp i would have put Yhwach against a Type or against fucking Velber or something.



Titan Altera would whoop his ass so effortlessly...
I find it funny normal Altera doesn't really have the means in comparison though.



Tenzen12 said:


> Prelati could do it very likely. It's so strong illusion it actually warp reality. Limit is few only few days though.





Qinglong said:


> Merlin's illusions are just as powerful as Prelati's



We may actually have something since Kyoka Suigetsu WAS enough to fuck over Yhwach in a fight since while it apparently doesn't obscure all of his futures, it can obscure the one he's looking into specifically. Those illusions may be able to fuck him over even harder compared to that.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 22, 2017)

Illusions are useless unless they can kill him, and even before being surpassed KS wasnt working properly since Aizen didnt know what Ywach was seeing.

I think in the Nasuverse you would need something like Archetype Earth to win this.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> I think in the Nasuverse you would need something like Archetype Earth to win this


Nah... AE is a bit too much. As for servants  , the high-top tier servants and Divine Spirits like the Lion King should have the means todeal with him .


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 22, 2017)

The only servant that could win woul be Gil by inmediately using EA, or the Gran Asasin with his MEoDP like attack.

And that would be difficult to pull and might not even work.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The only servant that could win woul be Gil by inmediately using EA, or the Gran Asasin with his MEoDP like attack.
> 
> And that would be difficult to pull and might not even work


Don't see Mustache surviving Rhon ,VS ,Dendera or An Gal Ta for example...of course, if he actually gets hit with them


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## Sablés (Aug 22, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Nah... AE is a bit too much. As for servants  , the high-top tier servants and Divine Spirits like the Lion King should have the means todeal with him .


Well LK should be able to travel through time iirc. She'd have no problem

Servants won't cut it.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 22, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Gil and Enkidu might be able to from their clash in SF and potentially based on how strong Gugalanna turns out to be. 800km typhoon is srs business.
> 
> But that's only if they can hit him (and he doesn't revive) and they wouldn't get it off fast enough. Definitely not IC


What about Ozy ? Wasn't Dendera referred to as a solar flare that could instantly vaporize a city  and also broke through Rhon (A suicide attack..but still).?


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## Xhominid (Aug 22, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Illusions are useless unless they can kill him, and even before being surpassed KS wasnt working properly since Aizen didnt know what Ywach was seeing.



I wasn't implying that Illusions is that all it took, what I was saying was if they had something else that could take advantage of that and can kill Yhwach.



Sablés said:


> Well LK should be able to travel through time iirc. She'd have no problem
> 
> Servants won't cut it.



The Lion King is Artoria under the control of Rhon right?


----------



## Sablés (Aug 22, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> What about Ozy ? Wasn't Dendera referred to as a solar flare that could instantly vaporize a city  and also broke through Rhon (A suicide attack..but still).?


He needed 10 shots of his NP and breaking his saint graph just to get past her barrier. When she retaliated, he was done. He doesn't really hold a candle to her and I'm mostly sure she beats Yhwach because Gods' authority can fuck with the time axis

DL at maximum power can turn Tokyo (or all the people of Tokyo?) to ash with its heat. Not sure if that would be enough to get past Yhwach's natural durability, which no-sells triple digit teratons and casually outputs that in his DC.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 22, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> The Lion King is Artoria under the control of Rhon right?


Yep,but she  also became a Divine Spirit, so she's not your normal servant


----------



## Regicide (Aug 22, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Mach 5600. Pretty much dead on with top-tier servants.


Dare I ask, having wandered into a Nasuverse debate against what is probably my better judgment, what this is referring to? I get the striking suspicion that I already know where these numbers come from, but I'd like to hope otherwise.


----------



## Sablés (Aug 22, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Dare I ask, having wandered into a Nasuverse debate against what is probably my better judgment, what this is referring to? I get the striking suspicion that I already know where these numbers come from, but I'd like to hope otherwise.


Enkidu jumping into space.

Perspective looked kind of wonky but idrc to argue


----------



## Regicide (Aug 22, 2017)

That does indeed answer my question, though as I feared, it brings up others.

For example, unless I'm missing something (and someone is going to have to explain to me in detail if I am), the minimum altitude for the Enuma Elish animation can't possibly be high enough to suggest quad-digit mach numbers.


----------



## Imagine (Aug 22, 2017)

Uh-oh


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 22, 2017)

Regicide said:


> That does indeed answer my question, though as I feared, it brings up others.
> 
> For example, unless I'm missing something (and someone is going to have to explain to me in detail if I am), the minimum altitude for the Enuma Elish animation can't possibly be high enough to suggest quad-digit mach numbers.


he jumped way out into space in just a few short seconds. you cant see any hint of the glow from earth


----------



## Regicide (Aug 22, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> he jumped way out into space in just a few short seconds. you cant see any hint of the glow from earth


You're going to have to give me some numbers on where the edge of the atmospheric halo stops being perceptible then.


----------



## Regicide (Aug 22, 2017)

Hell, for that matter, I'm not certain we'd be seeing anything either way with the angle that we're given.


----------



## Crimson King (Aug 22, 2017)

Regicide said:


> You're going to have to give me some numbers on where the edge of the atmospheric halo stops being perceptible then.


----------



## Regicide (Aug 22, 2017)

Doesn't answer my question, unfortunately.


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 22, 2017)

From here onward the stars in the background seem to visibly shift in location as Enkidu moves

I vaguely recall a Touhou calc using that for something, not that I can find it *shrugs*

But yeah, other than that, how were you clowns justifying the fucking exosphere exactly?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 23, 2017)

also


0:21
0:25
0:28
0:31

there are four cuts here (two for the up trip and two for the down trip)


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 23, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> also
> 
> 
> 0:21
> ...



It's specifically from 21 to 24.52 seconds for the first kiddo

It's in  comments

Didn't bother checking the second


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 23, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> It's specifically from 21 to 24.52 seconds for the first kiddo
> 
> It's in  comments
> 
> Didn't bother checking the second



but then... there's no feat 

you can't tell how far he travels during that timeframe because there's no point of reference

It goes like this:

0:20 jumps from ground level
0:21/22 cut to him in a random location in the air
0:25 match cut or fade transition (not sure what to term this) to wide shot of space

between :20 and :21/22 we don't know the distance

between :21/22 and :25 we don't know the distance

between :25 and :28 we don't know the distance

between :28 and :31 we don't know the distance

between :31 and :32 we don't know the distance

we know or can make an assumption about the total travel (between :20 and :32) because he (well it) goes up into space and then comes back down to ground but we can't tell how far he travels in any one bit of continuous footage.


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 23, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> but then... there's no feat



We know he starts on the ground, day time doesn't allow for stars to shine visibly in the sky so he needs to be a minimum of 100 km into the sky, and you can probably argue for some  given while our view of Enkidu's NP is fixed until it starts to bend, the stars in the background visibly scroll down the screen as he moves 

Looks similar to  anyway, with more detail in the background from the nebula and shit being the difference *shrugs*



> you can't tell how far he travels during that timeframe because there's no point of reference



Again, we have a few things to work with as I've listed



> 0:20 jumps from ground level
> 0:21/22 cut to him in a random location in the air



"Random location" again seems kind of silly to claim when the visual wouldn't be achievable during the day barring he surpass 100 km in the sky

Then something something stellar parallax is a possible avenue *shrugs*



> 0:25 match cut or fade transition (not sure what to term this) to wide shot of space



It's called zooming out kiddo

Its not a cut/fade transition

It's the scale shrinking for us to get a better view of the entire motion


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 23, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> "Random location" again seems kind of silly to claim when the visual wouldn't be achievable during the day barring he surpass 100 km in the sky
> 
> Then something something stellar parallax is a possible avenue *shrugs*



The point is you can't tell how much time passed during the cut from one location to the other

It goes like this:

>On ground
>jumps
>CUT HERE
>flying up
>CUT HERE
>flying in space
>CUT HERE
>flying down
>CUT HERE
>hits the ground



ChaosTheory123 said:


> "Random location" again seems kind of silly to claim when the visual wouldn't be achievable during the day barring he surpass 100 km in the sky
> 
> Then something something stellar parallax is a possible avenue *shrugs*



as I said, I'm talking about the fact you can't tell how long it takes him to cross that distance, not arguing about whether or not he's actually in space



ChaosTheory123 said:


> It's called zooming out kiddo
> 
> Its not a cut/fade transition
> 
> It's the scale shrinking for us to get a better view of the entire motion



No, it's definitely not a zoom, here are the frames surrounding the transition:







In three frames it goes

single chains of light are still visible -> blurred light -> giant pillar of light in space with visible stars

it's a cut disguised by blurring it using an intermediary frame i.e. transition.

Regardless, even if this ISN'T a cut it doesn't really matter because the point remains, you can't tell how long it takes, the new timeline just becomes:

>On ground
>jumps
>CUT HERE
>flying up
>flying in space
>CUT HERE
>flying down
>CUT HERE
>hits the ground


----------



## Nep Heart (Aug 23, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Looks similar to  anyway, with more detail in the background from the nebula and shit being the difference *shrugs*



I'd also argue the context being drastically different from what is being brought up for Enkidu since the stage involves crossing an actual interstellar corridor in-story and older games really do have characters similar travel of interplanetary/interstellar distances on a regular basis... which don't make the two exactly comparable.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 23, 2017)

tl;dr:

ground -> cut -> space -> cut -> ground

we don't know the total time involved in the feat because of these cuts, ergo using the cinematic time is inadmissible.


----------



## Regicide (Aug 23, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> From here onward the stars in the background seem to visibly shift in location as Enkidu moves


Bit of a hard call, but I'd argue that this is the camera moving.


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 23, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> tl;dr:
> 
> ground -> cut -> space -> cut -> ground
> 
> we don't know the total time involved in the feat because of these cuts, ergo using the cinematic time is inadmissible.



Nah

Even if this was the case, you're factually incorrect on merit of past precedent *shrugs*

Kefka's  being the one of the ones I can think of off the top of my head uses the 3 seconds of black screen as a low end time frame for how long it'd take the attack to travel from Kefka's tower to some part of the planet 10,000's km away

Much like here?

In the heat of combat, presuming the fuckers to sit around with sticks up their asses for minutes on end doing nothing waiting for the on coming strike to land without taking any sort of action is nonsensical



Ampchu said:


> I'd also argue the context being drastically different from what is being brought up for Enkidu since the stage involves crossing an actual interstellar corridor in-story and older games really do have characters similar travel of interplanetary/interstellar distances on a regular basis... which don't make the two exactly comparable.



Context?

We have a visual, the background stars visibly shift in relation to our reference point in Enkidu *shrugs*


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 23, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Bit of a hard call, but I'd argue that this is the camera moving.



Genuinely curious

Is this actually possible to justify with "camera moving" in this sort of frame of reference?


----------



## Regicide (Aug 23, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Much like here?
> 
> In the heat of combat, presuming the fuckers to sit around with sticks up their asses for minutes on end doing nothing waiting for the on coming strike to land without taking any sort of action is nonsensical


I'm not certain that even really matters in this context. It's not like Enuma Elish is an attack independent of its user, it's Enkidu himself transformed. Even if someone say, tried to take evasive maneuvers, it'd just be a matter of a course adjustment.

Or for a different sort of example, there's Rhongomyniad and the (for all intents and purposes) orbital strikes that it summons. Shit's imminent and everyone knows it, but there's jack anyone can do to escape or defend themselves even with time to spare.

Like, in a vacuum, it certainly sounds nice and neat that every attack is launched and arrives within a prompt timespan, but this doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Not saying that this means something doesn't occur within a relatively quick timeframe or that it must take forever by proxy, but I would certainly nonetheless question the use of cinematic time if said cinematic time isn't actually accurate and/or concrete.


ChaosTheory123 said:


> Genuinely curious
> 
> Is this actually possible to justify with "camera moving" in this sort of frame of reference?


Probably depends on stuff like the camera's FoV and the given angle.

Don't really want to spend a huge amount of time analyzing this animation in detail over and over, but at the very least, my initial impression tells me to leave more possibilities open than just stellar parallax.


----------



## Regicide (Aug 23, 2017)

Those are my thoughts, anyways. This is actually probably more time than I should be dedicating to this debate, so I might just bow out for now and come back later.


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 23, 2017)

Regicide said:


> I'm not certain that even really matters in this context. It's not like Enuma Elish is an attack independent of its user, it's Enkidu himself transformed. Even if someone say, tried to take evasive maneuvers, it'd just be a matter of a course adjustment.



Not even talking evasive action

Why not prepare something as a counter?

The trappings of being a turn based game isn't a story based justification for why they flat out try to do absolutely fuck all

If they had the actual time you're proposing they had because transitions, mounting any sort of defense is preferred to just face tanking it like an asshole *shrugs*



> Or for a different sort of example, there's Rhongomyniad and the (for all intents and purposes) orbital strikes that it summons. Shit's imminent and everyone knows it, but there's jack anyone can do to escape or defend themselves even with time to spare.



What's the AOE?

Because you can kind of at least run away to minimize how much energy is imparted upon your ass if nothing else



> Like, in a vacuum, it certainly sounds nice and neat that every attack is launched and arrives within a prompt timespan, but this doesn't necessarily have to be the case.



Given they're stand ins for people with personalities and actual thoughts?

"doesn't necessarily have to be the case" doesn't really fly *shrugs*

Lack of any kind of action needs to be justified, standing around trying nothing requires them to be objects, not people



> Not saying that this means something doesn't occur within a relatively quick timeframe or that it must take forever by proxy, but I would certainly nonetheless question the use of cinematic time if said cinematic time isn't actually accurate and/or concrete.



The cuts themselves are done in a manner that tries to disguise the fact they're cuts in the first place as a zoom in and zoom out

As far as "transitions" go in the first place, these practically don't exist.



> Probably depends on stuff like the camera's FoV and the given angle.



As far as I can tell, it'd have to be angle dependent 

Using my hand as the object in motion frame of reference, only by changing the angle of my head does the "background" move at the rate of my hand

Straight on perspective is mostly what I'm curious about though, which is kind of what this looked like to me here *shrugs*



> Don't really want to spend a huge amount of time analyzing this animation in detail over and over, but at the very least, my initial impression tells me to leave more possibilities open than just stellar parallax.



I'm not discounting possibilities?

Hell, I brought up something entirely different in the first place by introducing the notion at all


----------



## Regicide (Aug 23, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Not even talking evasive action
> 
> Why not prepare something as a counter?
> 
> ...


Right, I'll stick around long enough to give this a response if nothing else.

That being basically.. why not, actually? As far as I reason it, the assumption that nothing is happening is appealing to the turn-based combat being an absolutely literal representation of what's actually going on, and not an abstraction of events in-story. My own party's Jeanne and Mashu will happily stand around with complete nonchalance in response to proverbial nukes being prepared, despite countermeasures being readily deployed in-story and in cutscenes.

As a side note, I'd also argue in a broader context that, as much as someone might expect them to, characters in fiction don't have to act anymore sensibly or logically (or even act) than they're actually written.. given that, you know, they're just devices of a greater authority. I won't appeal to that in this situation though, just saying in a general sense.

Either way, that'll be it for me tonight.


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 23, 2017)

Regicide said:


> That being basically.. why not, actually? As far as I reason it, the assumption that nothing is happening is appealing to the turn-based combat being an absolutely literal representation of what's actually going on, and not an abstraction of events in-story.



Its not a literal representation, its more of an order in which the events are demonstrated to occur



> My own party's Jeanne and Mashu will happily stand around with complete nonchalance in response to proverbial nukes being prepared, despite countermeasures being readily deployed in-story and in cutscenes.



But they're not, or wouldn't be

Bear with me, but what I'm trying to get at is being the order in which the events take place, you're still able to discern that in the interim the characters still failed to take action sufficient to counter or evade the event taking place

They're not literally standing around with their thumbs up their asses, but the time granted to them to actual in a live scenario in how the order of events flows is still insufficient for any other counter measure to have taken place simultaneously

Think about how you have the chance to miss with an attack in a turn based game, the absence of such simultaneous action  being clarified is indicative of what I'm trying to get at

Not sure if that made any sense, but I've been up way too long *shrugs*



> As a side note, I'd also argue in a broader context that, as much as someone might expect them to, characters in fiction don't have to act anymore sensibly or logically (or even act) than they're actually written.. given that, you know, they're just devices of a greater authority. I won't appeal to that in this situation though, just saying in a general sense.



For such a claim to fly, you'd best be demonstrating some pretty severe mental ills *shrugs*

Outside a lobotomy, you're not going to get a real justification



> Either way, that'll be it for me tonight.



No need to rush it *shrugs*

Who knows when or if I'll give a shit about this later anyway?


----------



## Crimson King (Aug 23, 2017)

I've stopped giving a shit about vs threads years ago 

I just barely mustered up the effort to even post my blog.

That probably killed my ability to give a shit about vs threads for the rest of the month


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 23, 2017)

You confuse force of habit for giving a shit on our end *shrugs*

This hobby takes no real time, thought, or effort to continue

Useful when you don't have free time for something more meaningful


----------



## Revan Reborn (Aug 23, 2017)

Anyway why were people assuming illusions would work on yhwach. Aizen's only did because, he was influenced pre almighty, which means all futures are under its influence, once he did obtain the Almighty. Meaning, if said illusion was applied after the Almighty was active, it wouldn't work due his ability to alter the future to a time when said illusion wasn't active/broken etc.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Revan Reborn said:


> Anyway why were people assuming illusions would work on yhwach


Why wouldn't we ? Are you trying to say that no illusion, no matter how powerfull woulnd't affect him ? Let's not get into NLFs. Prelati's Grand Illusion is bordering on reality warping and it's powerfull enough to fool the collective conciousness of the Planet.
Anyway it really doesen't matter since even if you could succesfully mind-fuck Mustache, you would also need the means to kill him and the servant that has that kind of powerfull illusion shouldn't be albe to kill him. Merlin might be able to get the job done but he ain't  a normal servant.


----------



## shade0180 (Aug 23, 2017)

Why do you need to kill him?

 seriously why is death the only win condition?


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Why do you need to kill him?
> 
> seriously why is death the only win condition


Because Prelati's illusion has a time limit..it's not like Infinite Tsukuyomi for example, so i wouldn't consider that a win.


----------



## shade0180 (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Because Prelati's illusion has a time limit..it's not like Infinite Tsukuyomi for example, so i wouldn't consider that a win.



incapacitate is a win condition doesn't matter if it will last or not.

it isn't needed for those who are competing to incapacitate the opponent forever just to get that win condition.

Knock out is also a win condition. Does that mean that the opponent need to not wake up forever for it to apply.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> incapacitate is a win condition doesn't matter if it will last or not


Not here. It's kill or be killed.


----------



## shade0180 (Aug 23, 2017)

> Yhwach gets dropped in the Fate series and decides to go Nazi on their asses in a 1 vs 1 gauntlet.
> 1. Yhwach vs F/S/N + F/HA servants
> 2. Yhwach vs F/Apo servants
> 3. Yhwach vs Fate/SF servants
> ...



 it isn't in the OP. Well you are The OP so you are removing the other win condition to give the favor of the match to Yourwach?


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> it isn't in the OP.


Gonna add it.


----------



## shade0180 (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Gonna add it.





> Well you are The OP so you are removing the other win condition to give the favor of the match to Yourwach?



Sure, sure.

 you guys really will do anything to hype yourwach.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Sure, sure


Yeah, you know i love me some Yhwach. I added this because i want a permanent result not something temporary


----------



## shade0180 (Aug 23, 2017)

So a lost because he can't deal with better hax is not considered a lost because he didn't die.
 Yourwach needed all that support just to gain some wins..



reyatsuguy said:


> you know i love me some Yhwach.



I know.

 but seriously. pretty sure this kind of thread is made to know the limit of the character or whatever. Well if you are favoring the other character so much to the point of limiting the win condition then what's the point.  except to just to hype a character out of what they can deal with and pretend they are stronger than what they truly are capable off. which means you aren't really here to know where he stand but to put him in a pedestal so you can hype him when you put him against somebody else.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> So a lost because he can't deal with better hax is not considered a lost


Come on Shade ... are we really gonna argue on this ? I wouldn't care one bit if the illusion was permanent but the fact that it has a time limit doesen't sit well with me. I'm thinking that after the few days pass, Yhwach is gonna be back to normal  and then what ?+ the fact that it's a gauntlet. That's why i think the fight needs a conclusion. I realise it's a victory condition.. i just don't like it in this context. Call it a quirk of mine.


----------



## shade0180 (Aug 23, 2017)

what's stopping the other guy from putting him in the same illusion over and over again after each time limit is up.

 sure it has a time limit doesn't mean the other guy only could cast it once. and Only Yhwack has the option to fight repeatedly to get the win.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> what's stopping the other guy from putting him in the same illusion over and over again after each time limit is up


Never even occured to me.
Fuck it, i'm going back to the original conditions


----------



## Sablés (Aug 23, 2017)

What feats does prelati's illusion have?

I pretty much tuned off those annoying brats


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 23, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Nah
> 
> Even if this was the case, you're factually incorrect on merit of past precedent *shrugs*
> 
> ...



Cuts have routinely been used to discredit cinematic time since I first started here, the fact that one calc slipped through the cracks doesn't create a precedent -  also I think you linked the wrong calc, that goes to a floating continent one, not a kefka attack. 

In any case your argument from belief doesn't hold any weight, we know for a blatant fact that whether or not it makes sense for people to sit around for ages while the other side charges up attacks... that's what happens. There's no real difference in terms of plausibility between Enkidu taking 16 seconds to execute his attack in totality and him taking 160 seconds. In the context of what's going on here (high speed combat between hypersonic combatants) both are equally retarded.


----------



## Revan Reborn (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Why wouldn't we ? Are you trying to say that no illusion, no matter how powerfull woulnd't affect him ? Let's not get into NLFs. Prelati's Grand Illusion is bordering on reality warping and it's powerfull enough to fool the collective conciousness of the Planet.
> Anyway it really doesen't matter since even if you could succesfully mind-fuck Mustache, you would also need the means to kill him and the servant that has that kind of powerfull illusion shouldn't be albe to kill him. Merlin might be able to get the job done but he ain't a normal servant.



What i'm trying to get at is, the illusion may work at first, till Yhwach moves futures, to where there is no illusion which I have stated in my last post, just like how he moved to a future where he had not died.
But yes, if you could turn Yhwach into a cabbage, before he can react. You would be able to defeat Yhwach, but this is not illusions, it's straight up mindfucking which is not the same. It probably would also have to be outside of PePe's level of of mind altering(possibly As Nodt, though i'm not sure if it applies under the same conditions as mindscrewing). But quite frankly it's hard to quantify the level of mind resistance within the bleach universe.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Sablés said:


> What feats does prelati's illusion have


IIRC
-Made an illusionary copy of Enkidu that fooled some people (don't remember who) but not Gilgamesh.
-Placed an illusionary forest over the crater that Gil and Enkidu made.
The rest is Hype from the descriptions of Grand Illusion and the A rank of Genjutsu that states that placing an illusion over a village is a walk into the park and also being able to fool the Planet's enviorment.
That's it i think..


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Aug 23, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Cuts have routinely been used to discredit cinematic time since I first started here, the fact that one calc slipped through the cracks doesn't create a precedent



When?

Because I've been here even longer and that's flat out never been the case for similar calcs I've observed or even made

 another random example with EM having personally been in the comments looking it over

His only suggestion being asking if I could bother scaling the distance via angular size

Are you sure this is a thing here and not another forum you post on?  I'm exclusive to here, but its not unreasonable to think you're crossing some wires due to posting on multiple disparate sites

EDIT -  an even earlier example.  Sure, the imageshack links are now dead, but the respective speed feat was again demonstrated by a cut transition going from Kuuga firing his attack directly to the Owl Grongi (and while I couldn't find links to post the scene at 19:40 into episode 26 back then, I imagine its been posted to a streaming site since).  Commenters include EM again and GM.

Now, do I need to go through my blog catalogue?  Or does this sample suffice for you kiddo?

EDIT Again - Let's add something a bit  ubiquitous.  GM's time frame, again, involves a cut *shrugs*



> also I think you linked the wrong calc, that goes to a floating continent one, not a kefka attack.



Of course I'd copy the link for the wrong tab

Here's the blog with the current figure

Not that the math is super important when the feat is the second link



> In any case your argument from belief doesn't hold any weight, we know for a blatant fact that whether or not it makes sense for people to sit around for ages while the other side charges up attacks... that's what happens.



Kiddo

Are you genuinely suggesting these charge attacks actually take ages?

Its the same failing most assholes across the internet have when it comes to wrapping their heads around how Freeza's 5 minutes until Namek explodes being stretched into hours of run time makes sense in so much time is dilated for us to view the shit

I know this being fiction, you can indeed have the characters act like objects, but that's the exception, not the rule and needs actual evidence towards being shown and not assumed to actually be present when other explanations functionally exist that don't fuck with the characters reacting as we would

Additionally?

My "argument from belief" has been a precedent around here as long as assumed time frames calcs have needed justification for some kind of function kiddo.



> There's no real difference in terms of plausibility between Enkidu taking 16 seconds to execute his attack in totality and him taking 160 seconds. In the context of what's going on here (high speed combat between hypersonic combatants) both are equally retarded.



You're not really getting what I'm alluding to kiddo

What we're given on screen functions as a low end time frame in that regard


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 23, 2017)

Illusions wouldn't work because of the seeing the future thing, Kyoka Suigetsu was used in the first invasion.

There's also that the illusion needs to cover all the possible futures, if it only affects the senses and it isn't consisten with those it will fail


----------



## Imagine (Aug 23, 2017)

Yhwack immune to all illusions confirmed?


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 23, 2017)

Well yeah, if you know someone is going to try using one against you and you can immediately kill them.


----------



## Imagine (Aug 23, 2017)

That's not how illusions and illusion resistance works boyo


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

I'm sorry, but an illusion that is bordering on reality warping + being able in theory to fool the collective counciousness of a planet would affect Yhwach pretty good. KS should not even register in comparison to that.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There's also that the illusion needs to cover all the possible futures, if it only affects the senses and it isn't consisten with those it will fail





lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Well yeah, if you know someone is going to try using one against you and you can immediately kill them


Which one is it  ?


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 23, 2017)

Then how do they?

The Servant needs to activate them and they need to be alive to do so, and the futures Ywach see in the present aren't affected.



reyatsuguy said:


> I'm sorry, but an illusion that is bordering on reality warping + being able in theory to fool the collective counciousness of a planet would affect Yhwach pretty good. KS should not even register in comparison to that.



But even that illusion was seen trough by Gil isn't?

Was it shown to be able to trick something with stuff like Saber's instinct, eye of the mind or or any king of future prediction or other kind of senses, like seeing things in other dimensions or something?



reyatsuguy said:


> Which one is it  ?



Both.


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## Sablés (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> IIRC
> -Made an illusionary copy of Enkidu that fooled some people (don't remember who) but not Gilgamesh.
> -Placed an illusionary forest over the crater that Gil and Enkidu made.
> The rest is Hype from the descriptions of Grand Illusion and the A rank of Genjutsu that states that placing an illusion over a village is a walk into the park and also being able to fool the Planet's enviorment.
> That's it i think..


None of these are very useful in a straight fight.

Powerful though..


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Sablés said:


> None of these are very useful in a straight fight


There was also something about GI being able to fool people into thinking they are actually trapped into a Reality Marble, not just in an illusion.He migh be able to use that here..idk. I'm not really saying that Francois can beat Yhwach . I believe,however that if Yhwach gets hit with GI, it's game over.


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## Keishin (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> There was also something about GI being able to fool people into thinking they are actually trapped into a Reality Marble, not just in an illusion.He migh be able to use that here..idk. I'm not really saying that Francois can beat Yhwach . I believe,however that if Yhwach gets hit with GI, it's game over.


But the Almighty is kind of faster. In fact you can't dodge it.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Keishin said:


> But the Almighty is kind of faster. In fact you can't dodge it


Can you read ? I said IF Yhwach gets hit not that he will get hit.It's all hypotheticall. I could go into a discussion about some forces in Fate that might have something to say about Allmighty and also about how  the Allmighty is  NLF'ed around but that's not the point of this thread.


Keishin said:


> In fact you can't dodge it


Of course you can't . Fiction can't handle Kubo's bullshit writing.


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## Nep Heart (Aug 23, 2017)

You're Wack vs the Time Lords coming up. He can outspeed anything, right?


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> You're Wack vs the Time Lords coming up. He can outspeed anything, right?


Yourwank versus Xenogears should be up next too. Similar powers amirite?


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## Crimson King (Aug 23, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> You're Wack vs the Time Lords coming up. He can outspeed anything, right?


You're Whack vs Ideon

No wait

You're Whack vs jplaya itachi

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Crimson King said:


> You're Whack vs Ideon


Yourwank vs Getter Emperor and Mazinger ZERO

Reactions: Like 2


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## Xhominid (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Of course you can't . Fiction can't handle Kubo's bullshit writing.



This isn't even the first fucking time in fiction of something as bullshit as The Almighty. Golden Experience Requiem would like a word.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 23, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> This isn't even the first fucking time in fiction of something as bullshit as The Almighty. Golden Experience Requiem would like a word.


people dont constantly wank or make threads about GER though tbf


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## Nep Heart (Aug 23, 2017)

Pretty sure a Servant like Solomon kinda says "fuck you" to something like Almighty with retroactive sabotage via taking action in the past.


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## Xhominid (Aug 23, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> people dont constantly wank or make threads about GER though tbf



Well that's obviously due to the fact that GER wasn't made in this time compared to when Part 5 came out. It was over a decade ago so of course there won't be as many people wanking it now as it was then.


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## Keishin (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Of course you would.
> 
> You obviously jack-shit about Fate. King Hassan can inflict the concept of death in a being that is >>> Yhwach.I guess that shooting the concept of a planet at someone doesen't qualify, right?
> 
> ...


Yeah, and your favourite verse has feats made of statements. Atleast I'm not here saying that Yhwach can blow up multiverses because of the SK power despite what's been shown on-panel and stated about the precipice world, dangai, soul society, human world, hueco mundo getting erased and Yhwach possessing the power to erase it all. Or statements of omniscience...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Yeah, and your favourite verse has feats made of statements. Atleast I'm not here saying that Yhwach can blow up multiverses because of the SK power despite what's been shown on-panel and stated about the precipice world, dangai, soul society, human world, hueco mundo getting erased and Yhwach possessing the power to erase it all. Or statements of omniscience...


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Yeah, and your favourite verse has feats made of statements


For fuck sake..at least make your due diligence before spouting bullshit like that.This just proves that you dont know shit about Fate.


Keishin said:


> Atleast I'm not here saying that Yhwach can blow up multiverses because of the SK power despite what's been shown on-panel and stated about the precipice world, dangai, soul society, human world, hueco mundo getting erased and Yhwach possessing the power to erase it all. Or statements of omniscience


No ..but you think that the Allmighty cannot be dodged. About the same ammount of bullshit.
Also,Universall level Yhwach or whatever ,only in your wet dreams, my friend, only in your wet dreams.
Now GTFO out my thread and do some reaserch if you want to debate or fuck off.


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> For fuck sake..at least make your due diligence before spouting bullshit like that.This just proves that you dont know shit about Fate.
> 
> No ..but you think that the Allmighty cannot be dodged. About the same ammount of bullshit.
> Also,Universall level Yhwach or whatever ,only in your wet dreams, my friend, only in your wet dreams.


You know what this calls for? Pre-Crisis Plastic Man vs Yourwank


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> You know what this calls for? Pre-Crisis Plastic Man vs Yourwank


Make it happen

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Make it happen


Let's throw in Persona 2 while we're at it. It'll be the fairest of fights, the most fair, the very most fair.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Let's throw in Persona 2 while we're at it. It'll be the fairest of fights, the most fair, the very most fair


I think Yhwach would still have the upper hand though. After all he's powered by all of his fanbois's wet dreams. That shit is>power of friendship


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## Nep Heart (Aug 23, 2017)

Given that this You're Wack wanker is from OBD 2012... that tells you enough right there.


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## Xhominid (Aug 23, 2017)

To be fair, he is right about Yhwach may actually be a planet buster(or more considering how you think the size of the Soul Society and Heuco Muendo are) as in the latest novel, Yhwach's damage on Earth from him trying to destroy all 3 before being interrupted did in fact make a massive dent in the Earth to the point a cult formed around the phenomenon.

Of course him being able to stop attacks in general is...out there but not completely(keyword not completely) out of the possibility due to how The Almighty in general operates.


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> To be fair, he is right about Yhwach may actually be a planet buster(or more considering how you think the size of the Soul Society and Heuco Muendo are) as in the latest novel, Yhwach's damage on Earth from him trying to destroy all 3 before being interrupted did in fact make a massive dent in the Earth to the point a cult formed around the phenomenon.
> 
> Of course him being able to stop attacks in general is...out there but not completely(keyword not completely) out of the possibility due to how The Almighty in general operates.


Okay so you won't mind if I make a thread where Alkanphel or Captain Harlock decks him will you?


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## Xhominid (Aug 23, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Okay so you won't mind if I make a thread where Alkanphel or Captain Harlock decks him will you?



Only if you make a thread bringing positive proof you don't need to have universal levels of power to beat GER.


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Only if you make a thread bringing positive proof you don't need to have universal levels of power to beat GER.


Well Fang has argued for low tier multiversal GER before so...might not be what you're looking for


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Yhwach's damage on Earth from him trying to destroy all 3 before being interrupted did in fact make a massive dent in the Earth to the point a cult formed around the phenomenon


You do realize that is not really impressive and not planet level right ? It's too bad he got intrerupted but that 's the way it is. We can't go into how much he would have done withouht going into NLF teritory  BECAUSE he got intrerupted.It happened to other characters in fiction and it will happen again in fiction.


Xhominid said:


> Of course him being able to stop attacks in general is...out there but not completely(keyword not completely) out of the possibility due to how The Almighty in general operates


Again, quantify this without using a NLF.Where do we stop ?


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## Nep Heart (Aug 23, 2017)

Multiverse level GER seems extremely sketchy to me since that'd be like claiming the whole "spamming universe busting clashes" from Saint Seiya being multiverse level... but I digress, GER has always been a shitstorm to the point even Araki seems to hate the Stand.


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> Multiverse level GER seems extremely sketchy to me since that'd be like claiming the whole "spamming universe busting clashes" from Saint Seiya being multiverse level... but I digress, GER has always been a shitstorm to the point even Araki seems to hate the Stand.


Oh I'm aware of that and I have my disagreements. I'm just saying, there have been arguments for it before.


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## Jackalinthebox (Aug 23, 2017)

There was a Vash vs Yhwach thread on another forum a while back that turned into "Yhwach is immune to bfr" and "Yhwach can blitz relativistic characters due to lolAlmighty" 

Almighty too stronk


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Well, there were also people who said that Allmighty can Null Goetia from burning his ass into the past,present and future simultanously.
You just can't win against Allmighty man.


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## Sablés (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> BECAUSE he got intrerupted.It happened to other characters in fiction and it will happen again in fiction


Pretty much

but even at face value, he was causing Earthquakes all over the globe. Not planet level but is probably higher than what we have.


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

I would have no problem with continental Yhwach.


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## Crimson King (Aug 23, 2017)

Since we're taking everything, FTL servants speedblitz


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## Nep Heart (Aug 23, 2017)

Don't Servants normally consume energy from souls to replenish mana if we're going all-or-nothing here?


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Well, what the hell,they can also turn intangible


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## Jackalinthebox (Aug 23, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Well, there were also people who said that Allmighty can Null Goetia from burning his ass into the past,present and future simultanously.
> You just can't win against Allmighty man.


Sounds like someone should make a Yhwach vs the Basanos thread one day


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## Nep Heart (Aug 23, 2017)

While we're still at it, You're Wack gets a Gay Bulge shoved up his Raw Ass. Kappa


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> While we're still at it, You're Wack gets a Gay Bulge shoved up his Raw Ass. Kappa


With So-Gay Assen Kappa


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Kiara uses him as a cue tip or as a douche, whichever works better


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## Imagine (Aug 23, 2017)

Guess it was inevitable this thread was going to take such a turn.

Almighty threads


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Guess it was inevitable this thread was going to take such a turn.
> 
> Almighty threads


Look on the bright side.

At least this didn't get spammed with blaxploitation trailers.

Would be groovy if it happened tho.


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## Imagine (Aug 23, 2017)

Any time you have to start a whole separate debate on how Almighty works it's time to end the thread


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## Blakk Jakk (Aug 23, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Any time you have to start a whole separate debate on how Almighty works it's time to end the thread


You mean like how Sables ended your life


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Guess it was inevitable this thread was going to take such a turn.
> 
> Almighty threads


Kept it civil for about 4 pages, not bad for an Almighty thread. You're right though..time to end this


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

@MusubiKazesaru @Nighty the Mighty @LazyWaka 
Would you kindly ?


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## bitethedust (Aug 23, 2017)

Keishin talking about bias lul

On topic my boy Cu impales a scrub and calls it a day, don't care whether he'd actually win the fight or not

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Aug 23, 2017)

BEfore this is closed, please leave a vote


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## Crimson King (Aug 23, 2017)



Reactions: Winner 3


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