# Luffy/Law/Kidd vs. Fujitora



## MYJC (Mar 11, 2015)

Can the Supernova M3 take out the rookie Admiral or is he still too much for them? Fight takes place in an uninhabited island, starting distance is 40m. Fighters are in-character but very serious about winning. Manga knowledge of each other. 

How does the fight go, and what diff?


----------



## killfox (Mar 11, 2015)

They dont have the haki to properly damage him (Sabos haki >> theirs)

Also none of them are logia meaning the gravity attack he used against Sabo will work against them every time.

Its kinda hard to fight against an enemy that can fling you around with gravity at his every whim.

The best I can see is Law trying to evade the gravity attacks by teleporting around his room (which will tire him out), and Fujitora has CoO anyway so hed potentially be able to predict where law would appear and one shot him.

Once Law is gone they loose all defense against Fujitoras hax. Kid can try to manipulate the metal and possibly even Fujitoras sword but hed have a hard time doing that while getting knocked around..

They will have to deal with constant rain of meteors, and wont have any footing due to gravity manipulation.

No idea on the diff but if fuji turns it up, I think hed win everytime (at least currently)


----------



## Bernkastel (Mar 11, 2015)

Unrestricted Fujitora will be scary for those 3 to face.
Meteors raining down on them and gravity pressure will a bitch to deal.
Then there is the stat department which Issho is clearly superior to all of them.
His haki should also be much better meaning he will have no problem defending against the various hax  such as magnetic force or room's hax.

Overall though they would give him high(low) diff.


----------



## Amol (Mar 12, 2015)

Issho wins with high diff.
It will take one arc more to make them stronger enough to beat Admiral together.


----------



## trance (Mar 12, 2015)

Kid takes Issho's sword away from him. Supernova M3 proceed to stomp.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 12, 2015)

Trance said:


> Kid takes Issho's sword away from him.


He then proceeds to utilize his mastery of the Hei Hu Quan martial arts and beats them to death.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 12, 2015)

I have to imagine that all three of them combined at least push Issho to the higher end of diff or at best win w/ extreme diff, as otherwise they would be so far off from Admiral-Class it would be ridiculous, as basically it would mean their strength needs to increase over threefold and their versatility as well, to even put up a good fight against an Admiral, which I can't really see that being the case. It also would mean that Issho stomps them individually, which I can't see being the case at the point where Luffy will defeat DD, Kidd is probably stronger than Luffy at least slightly, and Law is not far bellow Luffy, so were basically talking about them averaging out to around DD level in strength and I think DD already proved when faced with Aokiji that an Admiral who is probably >= Issho can't outright stomp him. Law also proved that when faced with both Issho and DD, and still avoiding an outright stomp (Low diff yes, but not stomped). I think Issho should at least have Low (High) diff with one of the top Supernova's at this point, though possibly Mid (Low) to Mid (Mid) diff for the strongest one (Kidd being the likely strongest Super-Nova if not Luffy).


----------



## Seraphoenix (Mar 12, 2015)

All 3 mid/high diff Fuji.

There are Big Mom and Kaido fights coming up soon and I doubt they will go 3v1 against any of the Yonkou, maybe Luffy and Law vs Kaido.

Also Fuji isn't like Akainu where if you make a mistake once, half your face might be missing so there is a bigger margin for error.


----------



## Sherlōck (Mar 12, 2015)

Issho uses 45% of his strength.


----------



## Extravlad (Mar 12, 2015)

Law is not part of the Supernova M3 stop lying to yourself please.


----------



## Gohara (Mar 12, 2015)

Luffy, Law, and Kid win with mid to high difficulty, IMO.  Based on what Rayleigh says, Current Luffy should be able to put up a good fight and perhaps even fight on par with some Admirals.  Adding either Law or Kid individually should be enough to give them the edge, so having both of their help lessens the difficulty.


----------



## Coruscation (Mar 12, 2015)

Fujitora whips them with around mid difficulty. I don't see why this is hard to believe when you consider that Admirals are near-endgame 1v1 opponents, presuming you don't disagree with that premise. Considering how much the SHs grow in power, imagine Luffy 300-400 chapters from now on fighting 3 of his current self. There's no way the three current Luffys would win that fight just as 3 EB Luffys would have no chance of beating an EL Luffy or Rob Lucci. Mid diff sounds about right though.


----------



## Raiden34 (Mar 12, 2015)

This is not a easy fight for Fuji, that's for sure, but he still need to win this with high-ext. diff


----------



## Ghost (Mar 12, 2015)

Low end high diff fight for Fuji.


----------



## Luke (Mar 12, 2015)

Fujitora wins on the higher end of medium difficulty. 

These three are no joke anymore, but they aren't going to beat an Admiral at this point in the story no matter how badly people want them to. There's plenty of time for them to grow stronger.


----------



## Freechoice (Mar 13, 2015)

mid diff at best

admirals too strong


----------



## TheWiggian (Mar 13, 2015)

loL said:


> mid diff at best
> 
> admirals too strong




Yea admirals way too StronK


----------



## ShadoLord (Mar 13, 2015)

Fujitora wins with mid-diff; if Fujitora actually go all-out from the start, it could even result in fodderize/low-diff.

The Admiral is still wayyy out of Luffy's league.


----------



## DavyChan (Mar 13, 2015)

Amol said:


> Issho wins with high diff.
> It will take one arc more to make them stronger enough to beat Admiral together.



I agree with this.


----------



## Nox (Mar 14, 2015)

I consider the three to be Supernova M3 and relatively equal in terms of power with few factors giving one edge over the other. As such I can see them bring Fujitora to (high) Mid difficulty before losing in the end. Depending on how Luffy perfoms with DD the diff might chance.


----------



## trance (Mar 14, 2015)

Wave said:


> Fujitora wins with mid-diff; if Fujitora actually go all-out from the start, it could even result in fodderize/low-diff.
> 
> The Admiral is still wayyy out of Luffy's league.



I hold the Admirals in pretty high regard but even I don't think one Admiral can fodderize these three at once. Even AK doesn't believe that.


----------



## Tenma (Mar 14, 2015)

Either way extreme, leaning the SNs.


----------



## Dr. White (Mar 14, 2015)

Tenma said:


> Either way extreme, leaning the SNs.


    .


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 14, 2015)

Trance said:


> I hold the Admirals in pretty high regard but even I don't think one Admiral can fodderize these three at once. Even AK doesn't believe that.



You trying to second guess me Trance? I should dock you a week's wages for that son. 

But yeah even I don't think it'll be a fodderisation at this stage (it would pre TS) but not now. However I can't see it being more than medium difficultly at most provided Fujitora takes it seriously and doesn't faff about (which he has a tendency to do).


----------



## Dr. White (Mar 14, 2015)

They need Sanji, and Preperation.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Sanji needs 6 hours to prep the best bowl of Ramen in HST multiversal history. After gracefully crafting the bowl of heavenly noodles and succulent broth, Sanji allows Law to shambles it close to Kizaru baiting him. Inticed, Fujitora inches closer, the vapor from the bowl dancing through the air, and onto the cilia in his nasal cavity. His hormones begin to race as his pace towards the ramen begins to steady, 5 feet, 3 feet, but then..The bowl moves back swiftly. Entranced by the aroma eminating from the metal bowl, Fujitora runs for the Ramen, as it continuously gets pulled back further and further. Fujitora finally has enough of it, and uses his Gravi sword to hold the bowl down. Finally! Fujitora thought he could savor the brilliantly spiced noodles slide down his throat as the heated broth warms him to the bone. But in that moment, Fujitora's increase in gravity had revealed that the Supernova had previously dug up an area the size of a small country with their powers, and held it ever so slightly with the collective powers of Kid and Law. As Fujitora fell into the crater leading to the earth's core he used one final Gravi technique to pull in the bowl the led to his demise, and enjoyed one last feast before becoming one with the Center of the Earth. GG.


----------



## savior2005 (Sep 27, 2015)

reviving this thread bcuz of g4 and more recent events. how does this battle go now, unrestricted of course (g4 is accessible, but has manga limit and recovery time)


----------



## maupp (Sep 27, 2015)

The trio takes it. Luffy alone had Fuji panting(no mater how much in denial some are about this), you add 2 more guys on similar level and they bury Fuji


----------



## Dunno (Sep 27, 2015)

Fujitora wins with mid to high diff.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 27, 2015)

Fujitora should take it with very high-extreme difficulty.


----------



## King plasma (Sep 27, 2015)

The trio should win with high to very high diff.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 27, 2015)

MYJC said:


> Can the Supernova M3 take out the rookie Admiral or is he still too much for them? Fight takes place in an uninhabited island, starting distance is 40m. Fighters are in-character but very serious about winning. Manga knowledge of each other.
> 
> How does the fight go, and what diff?



They take him out.
Kidd has the ability to throw Fuji's sword game off. 
Law has crazy haxx along with powerful moves and the ability to enhance team work with things like shambles.
Luffy has a lot of destructive potential, and worse comes to worse, he uses his gear 4. 

They can definitely win.


----------



## MYJC (Sep 27, 2015)

Yeah, I made this thread before G4 was revealed. 

With that, it's pretty clear that the trio wins. I'd say they could individually give Fujitora (lower) mid-diff (with G4 possibly giving him high-diff) so all three of them should be able to high-diff Fuji.


----------



## Bernkastel (Sep 28, 2015)

Yeah trio should take it now though it'll be very tough for them.


----------



## Sherlōck (Sep 28, 2015)

I still don't see them taking an Admiral/Yonko. I think they will get another arc before they face a Yonko/Admiral.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 28, 2015)

MYJC said:


> Yeah, I made this thread before G4 was revealed.
> 
> With that, it's pretty clear that the trio wins. I'd say they could individually give Fujitora (lower) mid-diff (with G4 possibly giving him high-diff) so all three of them should be able to high-diff Fuji.



I dont think people should take gear 4 so lightly, it doesn't last for very long and takes  a lot of stamina.


----------



## Coruscation (Sep 28, 2015)

Their odds are certainly much better with G4 in the mix, but remember how Law only gave even Doflamingo around mid-diff, and Fuji is stronger than Doflamingo. Luffy is the only one of them who has a good shot at pushing this to mid diff right now imo. In a couple arcs, sure, Law and Kid will be up there relatively soon but with how dominant Doflamingo generally was against Law I don't see how Law is doing equally well against a bloodlusted going 100% Admiral. Something I remind everyone we have yet to actually see post-timeskip. Fujitora just lifted Pica's golem + a shitload more rubble like it was nothing and then fought off Luffy at the same time, with no real bloodlust at all. It's the synergy between each of their abilities that give them a good shot here, but they'll have to watch out when Fuji goes balls to the wall full power. We saw what a Fierce Tiger did to Luffy, sent him flying like crazy while busting a huge chunk of Dress Rosa's rock wall. Luffy was lucky to be immune to gravity damage. Kid wouldn't have as much fun. Fuji has supreme COO to intercept any sneaky moves from Law, and if he gets a good clean hit on any of them he should be able to deal heavy damage. They probably have a shot, but it's certainly not definitive, not yet.


----------



## Yuki (Sep 28, 2015)

Law was heavily damage and stamina drained... >_>

Why do people keep forgetting this.


----------



## Ruse (Sep 28, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Law was heavily damage and stamina drained... >_>
> 
> Why do people keep forgetting this.



Doflamingo held back a significant portion of his power tho.


----------



## Yuki (Sep 28, 2015)

Joseph said:


> Doflamingo held back a significant portion of his power tho.



He held back his awakening.

DD is still a CQC fighter.

He did not hold back most of his power at all.

Just a power very good for taking on a mass of people and people psychically stronger than him. Law is neither, as such awakening would not change nearly as much as people assume.

Plus it was the whole. "Need to save something for the MC boss fight BS."

Laws fight with DD showed just where he was WHILE he was injured. 

Law said him self he needed all of his strength to be a threat to DD. He did not even want to fight him once Luffy saved him because he knew fine well he did not have the power to do it.


----------



## Coruscation (Sep 28, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Law was heavily damage and stamina drained... >_>
> 
> Why do people keep forgetting this.



You mean the thing that was never even brought up by Law himself during the whole bloody second fight against Doflamingo. Not forgetting that Law himself stated "I've done all I can do" after he ultimately lost.

While Doflamingo held back ALL USE OF AWAKENING.
The thing that was called "a whole new world" and which made him go from getting near zero-diffed by G4 to at least squeezing out mid-diff.

Law was not the one held back more. Stop the damage control and excuses bullshit. It makes no sense even when you try to go full spin mode on it. How the flip would Awakening not have helped significantly? Law would have had the very ground he's standing turned into razor sharp string that attack him. And the ground behind him. And the ground to his sides. And any object above and to the side of him. All while Doflamingo is coming on like a steamroller from the front and the fast and strong Black Knight is constantly harassing alongside him. He tries to warp away, Doffy immediately turns the ground where he teleports to string and keeps chasing. Awakening would have been hellish for Law to deal with because it can turn his own power to manipulate the environment against him. Anywhere he goes is hostile territory piercing him with razor sharp strings, nevermind Doflamingo going full throttle assaulting him simultaneously.

Doflamingo was neglecting to use an entirely new huge power-up he kept sitting quietly in his back pocket, as well as his Black Knight. Because he didn't even need either to outmaneuver Law and cut his arm off relatively comfortably.


----------



## Yuki (Sep 28, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> You mean the thing that was never even brought up by Law himself.
> 
> While Doflamingo held back ALL USE OF AWAKENING.
> The thing that was called "a whole new world" and which made him go from getting near zero-diffed by G4 to at least squeezing out mid-diff.
> ...



Awakening just turns DD from a short/mid ranged fighter to a fighter of all ranges. He still prefers and is better at CQC. >_>

Yes it fucking was... Law did not even want to fight DD after being saved by Luffy. >_> Clearly showing he thought his amount od stamina as insignificant  for taking down DD.

We don't have one really good feat from DDs awakening.

All his feats come from CQC other than the one move that he does not even need awakening to use.


----------



## Coruscation (Sep 28, 2015)

Your damage control is useless. No feats? Go re-read. Doflamingo went from getting smashed around by Gear 4th like a hapless ragdoll to suddenly keeping G4 on its toes and keeping it off of him for almost the entire remainder of its duration. He destroyed non-G4 Luffy with almost no difficulty using it alone. He himself called Awakening "a whole new world" and revealed that he wasn't kidding through the feats he immediately went on to accomplish with it.

*How do you arrive at this being a relatively insignificant power-up?*

When in OP have you seen something like the above happen with something that wasn't a major power boost to the person using it?

Illogical damage control and favoritism is all that is.


----------



## Yuki (Sep 28, 2015)

Because awakening can keep G4 away. >_>

It's a LONG RANGED ABILITY. What is G4 again? Oh yea PURE CQC. 



DD used awakening to keep G4 Luffy at bay until it ran out and even failed at that after some time. 

It kept G4 Luffy away for a bit of time and killed some fodder.

Oh much wow. 

Awakening sure owns Law. Easily on par to you know, getting your ass kicked two times before the battle. 

Awakening is a good power up, it enables DD use more stings aka Gods Thread and use far more mid to long ranged abilities. 

However DD is still far more lethal when it comes to CQC.

Proven that CQC DD could really hurt Luffy and Awakening Strings could not penetrate him.


----------



## Coruscation (Sep 28, 2015)

Awakening is both a short ranged and long ranged ability. It can be used at any range in any setting. Obviously he only used it to keep G4 away because he wanted to keep G4 away from him. There's nothing in the world stopping him from turning everything into strings and sending them after anyone that isn't G4 Luffy. Like how he did that against non-G4 Luffy and completely wrecked him before Luffy went G4 again. But I like how you ignored that.

Your hyperbolic downplay and strawmen don't an argument make. Post again when you've come up with an actual disputation of the points.


----------



## Yuki (Sep 28, 2015)

You know what.

Go out and get your ass kicked by two different guys two different times.

Then, 10 mins later try to fight a third one. See what happens.

A month later go and have a fight with some guy without using your legs.

Which fight do you do better in? YEAAAA!!! It's not fucking science...


----------



## Ruse (Sep 28, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> He held back his awakening.
> 
> DD is still a CQC fighter.
> 
> ...



Yes he did no awakening which allows him to completely change his environment to strings which can attack Law at every angle. No Black Knight clones which have proven to be capable of keeping Law at bay.

You're overstating Law's injuries, he wasn't a 100% but thanks to Luffy carrying him, he had recovered enough to where he could fight at a competitive level.

I mean Doffy even took Law's ultimate move and was still able to go on and fight G4 less Luffy without any real problems.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 28, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Their odds are certainly much better with G4 in the mix, but remember how Law only gave even Doflamingo around mid-diff, and Fuji is stronger than Doflamingo. Luffy is the only one of them who has a good shot at pushing this to mid diff right now imo. In a couple arcs, sure, Law and Kid will be up there relatively soon but with how dominant Doflamingo generally was against Law I don't see how Law is doing equally well against a bloodlusted going 100% Admiral. Something I remind everyone we have yet to actually see post-timeskip. Fujitora just lifted Pica's golem + a shitload more rubble like it was nothing and then fought off Luffy at the same time, with no real bloodlust at all. It's the synergy between each of their abilities that give them a good shot here, but they'll have to watch out when Fuji goes balls to the wall full power. We saw what a Fierce Tiger did to Luffy, sent him flying like crazy while busting a huge chunk of Dress Rosa's rock wall. Luffy was lucky to be immune to gravity damage. Kid wouldn't have as much fun. Fuji has supreme COO to intercept any sneaky moves from Law, and if he gets a good clean hit on any of them he should be able to deal heavy damage. They probably have a shot, but it's certainly not definitive, not yet.



You know it just feels wrong that Luffy, Law and Kidd together can't beat an admiral, while going at it together at this point. Doffy took more of a gauntlet of Law and Luffy, but together, three guys like that? 

Also the awakening thing.... a fresh Law, as shown against his fight with Smoker, had complete control over his environment to the point he was throwing around ships like leaves and creating spikes from the ground.... I feel 100% law vs 100% Doffy wouldn't go low diff or anything, Law can counter the awakening quite easily with things like tact and shambles...


----------



## Coruscation (Sep 28, 2015)

They probably do have a decent chance, I simply don't think it's so easy to call it definitive. Not when Law got so badly messed up by Doflamingo alone, and when we haven't even seen an Admiral get bloodlusted in part 2 yet, yet Fujitora pulled off insane feats at the end of DR without any bloodlusted or real will to harm his opponent, plus Luffy's convenient immunity to Fierce Tiger.

Law's environment control gets turned against him with Awakening more than he can turn it against Doflamingo. Doflamingo is the one who actually manipulates the strings with his mind alone. Law can only attempt to counter-manipulate, but Tact only launches things in a specific direction. He doesn't have the control Doffy does, and Doffy can constantly counter-control. And because Law has to actively do all this, Doffy can assault him simultaneously in person while mentally manipulating Awakening and having Black Knight attack independently. Despite all this I haven't claimed Law gets low-diffed. Because of Law's injuries I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt he would still be able to give Doffy mid diff. That is fairly generous of me considering the breadth of Doffy's power-up was heavily emphasized while the same can't actually be said for Law's injuries in round 2.



Juvia. said:


> You know what.
> 
> Go out and get your ass kicked by two different guys two different times.
> 
> ...



Non-sequiturs don't make an argument either. I've never stated Law's injuries were irrelevant. I said they were never brought up by him a single time throughout the whole second Doflamingo fight, which is true. I also said Law himself stated he had done all that he could, which is true. Both of these things suggest that his injuries and weariness were not a particularly big deal during that fight. When something did have a major impact Oda went out of his way to highlight it, i.e. Luffy and Doflamingo. Therefore the fact that he never did for Law indicates it probably had even less of an impact. And if Law was constantly being heavily held back, it doesn't make sense for him to say that he's done all he could. Because it wouldn't really be true, or at the very least misleading. 

On the flip side to all this, the impact of Doflamingo's Awakening was emphatically highlighted multiple times. It held off Gear 4th whereas he was previously annihilated by it. It destroyed non-Gear 4th Luffy with ease. And Doflamingo himself called it a whole new world. 

In summary, this is why it makes no sense, and is nothing but damage control, to argue that Law was somehow held back more than Doflamingo and would actually give him high difficulty. That is actually fucking ridiculous because it indicates Law was so badly held back that he was basically fighting at leaps and bounds below his true potential. Oda never indicated this in the slightest and it's simply not true as far as anything we can tell goes.


----------



## Yuki (Sep 28, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> You know it just feels wrong that Luffy, Law and Kidd together can't beat an admiral, while going at it together at this point. Doffy took more of a gauntlet of Law and Luffy, but together, three guys like that?
> 
> Also the awakening thing.... a fresh Law, as shown against his fight with Smoker, had complete control over his environment to the point he was throwing around ships like leaves and creating spikes from the ground.... I feel 100% law vs 100% Doffy wouldn't go low diff or anything, Law can counter the awakening quite easily with things like tact and shambles...



Thank you.

And with that, i am out.

@Coruscation

No but it was highlighted before the fight by you know, Law even after all the planning and death did not even want to fight DD when Luffy found him. He told Luffy to just leave and let him die. >_> 

Law is not someone to show weakness to his enemy that he is trying to defeat with his life.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 28, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> They probably do have a decent chance, I simply don't think it's so easy to call it definitive. Not when Law got so badly messed up by Doflamingo alone, and when we haven't even seen an Admiral get bloodlusted in part 2 yet, yet Fujitora pulled off insane feats at the end of DR without any bloodlusted or real will to harm his opponent, plus Luffy's convenient immunity to Fierce Tiger.



Yeah I think that's more fair... I definitely feel at this point these three together should be able to take an admiral... otherwise I don't feel in one or two arcs they'd be able to take a yonko :/



> Law's environment control gets turned against him with Awakening more than he can turn it against Doflamingo. Doflamingo is the one who actually manipulates the strings with his mind alone. Law can only attempt to counter-manipulate, but Tact only launches things in a specific direction. He doesn't have the control Doffy does



I think he does have the control that doffy does... he was playing jenga with the ships and making them fly in circles all about, even back at saboady he was able to do that and move things freely in his room and the same with vergo's pieces

But okay, i see you say that being generous law could push it to mid diff, so I'd leave it at that


----------



## Tenma (Sep 28, 2015)

Trio win solidly. While Fuji is stronger than Doffy he is obviously not so much stronger DD is nothing to him. Furthermore-

1. Doffy never really fought Law and Luffy simultaneously and while both were outclassed  (prior to G4) they were capable of occupying his full attention and getting good licks in. Whenever they did work together (Red Hawk, Gamma Knife) it went badly for DD.

2. Here he is fighting all 3 at the same time, _including_ a Luffy in G4. DD would get annihilated by this trio. No shame for Fuji in losing.

3. Unlike DD Fuji has no answer to Gamma Knife if he gets hit by it. These are all reckless, ballsy rookies so a crazy plan that involves one of them getting sacrificed if it means Laq gets a good hit can easily happen.

4. Luffy has immunity to the majority of Fuji's techniques. He did not have this against Doffy.

5. Kidd has effectively been a non factor cause we don't know much about him 'cept he's on the other 2's level, once he gets to show his stuff he will no doubt pull some ridiculous shit.

With all these in mind, _how_ does Fuji pull a win? This is a decisive win for the Novas.


----------



## Gohara (Sep 29, 2015)

Luffy, Law, and Kid win with low to mid difficulty IMO.  Luffy has the feats and portrayal to suggest that he's around or close to Admiral level.  Luffy having Kid's and Law's help gives them the notable edge.


----------



## Dr. White (Sep 29, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Because of Law's injuries I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt he would still be able to give Doffy mid diff. That is fairly generous of me considering the breadth of Doffy's power-up was heavily emphasized while the same can't actually be said for Law's injuries in round 2.


Law doesn't really need the benefit of doubt to give Doffy mid diff. On the bridge he literally just got done fighting several of Fuji's meteors while dodging dofla at the same time, and was decently banged up. Then after destroying the bridge with doffy, *he got beat literally across the whole country, and shot so much that he fell unconscious.* It was extremely clear Law was banged up much more so than dofla in their round 2. 



> I've never stated Law's injuries were irrelevant. I said they were never brought up by him a single time throughout the whole second Doflamingo fight, which is true.


So? It isn't in Law's character to do so. Just because he didn't explicitly state his injuries/wear and tear weren't heavily affecting him, that doesn't mean they weren't. We had pretty much the whole first half of DR to see all of that, and he fought Dofla for round 2 what? A couple of hours after the initial Fuji-Dofla/Dofla (alone) fight?



> I also said Law himself stated he had done all that he could, which is true. Both of these things suggest that his injuries and weariness were not a particularly big deal during that fight.


No they don't. Not only was Law evidently injured and tired, but Law stating he did all he could is not just speaking on his ability to beat Dofla 1v1, and shouldn't be used in the context of Law's true potential.
A.) Law was forced to expend a great majority of his strength and stamina due to needing to save the strawhats, and buy Franky time. Something which required him to go toe to toe with a top tier (albeit holding back), and high tier.
B.) Semantically, Law could have been talking about doing all he could with what he had. He knew from the get go he couldn't beat Dofla alone, and needed the strawhats help (especially Luffy). Within the context of Law's effort throughout the whole of DR that was the best he could do.

That doesn't mean Law was saying his performance was the best he could ever do in a 1v1 vs Dofla. That's nonsensical to suggest.



> When something did have a major impact Oda went out of his way to highlight it, i.e. Luffy and Doflamingo.


That's because they were literally talking to eachother about their injuries in previous fights. Just because Oda does explicitly state wear and tear sometimes doesnt mean that when he chooses not too, injuries and stamina drain should be ignored... Law took the impact of meteors, a ton of attacks (both physical, and string attacks) from Doflamingo, and straight up abused his fruit before fighting with Luffy. I think Law being rendered unconscious (something that rarely happens in OP) and needing to perform surgery on himself hours after being shot was good enough in showing us the extent of his injuries.



> In summary, this is why it makes no sense, and is nothing but damage control, to argue that Law was somehow held back more than Doflamingo and would actually give him high difficulty. That is actually fucking ridiculous because it indicates Law was so badly held back that he was basically fighting at leaps and bounds below his true potential. Oda never indicated this in the slightest and it's simply not true as far as anything we can tell goes.


You're not taking into account the context of Law's fights. In his first fights of the arc he wasn't fighting to win. Vs Fuji he was either dodging for his life from meteors that made Dofla shit himself, along with attacks from Dofla himself. After escaping he was either saving the Strawhats from Fuji, or buying time for franky. It wasn't until he went with Luffy that he was actually fighting to win according to the plan as it was the final step. Law, despite being stamina drained, and beaten up, outperformed G2/G3 Luffy, and eventually landed the shot that allowed Luffy to ultimately contend and beat Dofla.


----------



## savior2005 (Sep 29, 2015)

Gohara said:


> Luffy, Law, and Kid win with low to mid difficulty IMO. * Luffy has the feats and portrayal to suggest that he's around or close to Admiral level.*  Luffy having Kid's and Law's help gives them the notable edge.



before g4 came out, u use to say that luffy was at or above admiral level lol


----------



## Gohara (Sep 29, 2015)

I was including Luffy's power up prior to us seeing it.  As for me ranking Luffy slightly higher initially, that's because Doflamingo would have barely defeated him if it wasn't for him being allowed to recover his Haki.  Doflamingo has the feats and portrayal to suggest that he's around Admiral level IMO, so if Doflamingo is slightly more powerful than Luffy than I would say that the average Admiral is slightly more powerful than Luffy as well.


----------



## Coruscation (Sep 30, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Law doesn't really need the benefit of doubt to give Doffy mid diff. On the bridge he literally just got done fighting several of Fuji's meteors while dodging dofla at the same time, and was decently banged up. Then after destroying the bridge with doffy, *he got beat literally across the whole country, and shot so much that he fell unconscious.* It was extremely clear Law was banged up much more so than dofla in their round 2.
> 
> 
> So? It isn't in Law's character to do so. Just because he didn't explicitly state his injuries/wear and tear weren't heavily affecting him, that doesn't mean they weren't. We had pretty much the whole first half of DR to see all of that, and he fought Dofla for round 2 what? A couple of hours after the initial Fuji-Dofla/Dofla (alone) fight?
> ...



You're typing your repetitive essay to to a giant strawman. I never said half the things you somehow got it into your head that I said and you never responded to the thing I was actually saying from the beginning.

Doflamingo's Awakening is *proven* to be a large power boost. At _least_ one "difficulty level" worth of a power boost since that's what we saw.

Law's injuries and weariness are an unknown quantity, but it makes zero fucking sense he was somehow held back more than DD holding back Awakening, i.e. two entire "difficulty levels" considering he still did better than non-G4 Luffy. That would mean in actual fight Law literally low-diffs a Luffy who doesn't use G4. Which only an absolutely batshit crazy fanboy would think. I doubt anyone but maybe one or two would even think it's mid-diff, and I sure don't.

So whatever difficulty Law actually gave to Doffy in canon remains, at best, the same if Doffy uses Awakening. Which is mid. Law never even showed he can deal with Awakening + Black Knight + Doffy himself so yeah, it's giving him the benefit of the doubt. That is exactly what it is when we give him the credit that he could do something he never showed something on the level of. Which I have no problems at all doing, but when people go full spin mode and try to argue that an unknown quantity Oda never even highlighted somehow has a bigger impact than a known and major quantity that Oda explicitly highlighted, they're being stupid.


----------



## Pyriz (Sep 30, 2015)

Kidd solos. 

Luffy and Law serve as cheerleaders.


----------



## jjjjjbbbbnnnnnn (Oct 2, 2015)

Supernovas low diff


----------

