# Kid won't pledge until Gays get equal rights



## Ishamael (Nov 18, 2009)

> UPDATE: Will Phillips appeared on CNN Monday morning with his father, Jay, to discuss his refusal to say the pledge of allegiance.
> 
> "I've grown up with a lot of people and I'm good friends with a lot of people who are gay and I think they should have the rights all people should, and I'm not going to swear that they do," the ten-year-old Phillips said.
> 
> ...





Really great story, already a bright kid, there is a video interview in the link as well.


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## Mider T (Nov 18, 2009)

Bright? Maybe, maybe not.  Socially sensitive?  Certainly.  Seriously, most people today think anyone under the age of 13 can't articulate a sentence.  Nice to see things like this.


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## Havoc (Nov 18, 2009)

> Via *Queer*ty comes a story from the Arkansas Times about Will Phillips, an elementary school student who refuses to say the pledge of allegiance in school because of discrimination against gay people:



Gay indoctrination scheme.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Nov 18, 2009)

"Homosexuals are forcing young boys as old as 10 years old to do their dirty work"


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## Banhammer (Nov 18, 2009)

terrorist ten year old sitting himself down on a wooden object makes gay mafia happy


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## Jarl lKarl (Nov 18, 2009)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> "Homosexuals are forcing young boys as old as 10 years old to do their dirty work"



Taking bets as to whether or not Michael Savage will paraphrase this.


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## Rabbit and Rose (Nov 18, 2009)

gays again?


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## makeoutparadise (Nov 18, 2009)

You don't really have to pledge anyway so idk what he will accomplish noble effort though


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## Mintaka (Nov 18, 2009)

Looks like he won't be pledging in school for a while.


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## Hinako (Nov 18, 2009)

His voice won't get heard


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## Mintaka (Nov 18, 2009)

Hinako said:


> His voice won't get heard


If his voice is not heard why are we discussing this?

Maybe it won't in his class seeing as how his stupid classmates don't seem to understand what he's doing and instead are going "DERP DERP GAYWAD LOLOLOLOL!!!" however others outside it will.


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## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

This is just his 15 minutes of fame, that's all.

But after his 15 minutes are up, he's just going to be part of the choir.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 18, 2009)

SEE!!!? PROOF!!! GAYS ARE CORRUPTING THE CHILDREN!!! 



Tyrannos said:


> This is just his 15 minutes of fame, that's all.
> 
> But after his 15 minutes are up, he's just going to be part of the choir.



I don't see the point in trying to demean his efforts.


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## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I don't see the point in trying to demean his efforts.



No, if I was demeaning his efforts, I would say he doesn't know any better.   But this is CNN grandstanding again in making trivial news into OMG BREAKING NEWS!

Honestly, if this was a kid advocating heterosexuality, many here on NF would be saying a lot worse.


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## Adonis (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> No, if I was demeaning his efforts, I would say he doesn't know any better.   But this is CNN grandstanding again in making trivial news into OMG BREAKING NEWS!
> 
> Honestly, if this was a kid advocating heterosexuality, many here on NF would be saying a lot worse.



Yes, because a majority needs advocation for things to be "balanced."


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> No, if I was demeaning his efforts, I would say he doesn't know any better.   But this is CNN grandstanding again in making trivial news into OMG BREAKING NEWS!



Eh? Stuff like this usually do make news. I don't see how it's grandstanding. The whole point in stuff like this is to get people's attention, and to get people's attention, it needs to get the media's attention. 



> Honestly, if this was a kid advocating heterosexuality, many here on NF would be saying a lot worse.



Tell me you aren't serious.


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## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Eh? Stuff like this usually do make news. I don't see how it's grandstanding. The whole point in stuff like this is to get people's attention, and to get people's attention, it needs to get the media's attention.



It needs local attention, not the whole frigging nation peer pressuring people into submission.  If those people were indeed gay bashing, then let the superintendent of that school handle it.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Tell me you aren't serious.



Yes, I'm serious.  You see it all the time in conservative bashing here.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> It needs local attention, not the whole frigging nation peer pressuring people into submission.  If those people were indeed gay bashing, then let the superintendent of that school handle it.



Attention local, state, or national level is good for the cause the kid is going for. Keep in mind what his motivation behind this is. Also, how the hell is this peer pressuring people into submission? Unless you actually read the article or saw the video, you'd know he's been getting a lot of flak, ESPECIALLY from his peers. 

Did you even read the article, or watch the video even?



> Yes, I'm serious.  You see it all the time in conservative bashing here.



You're making no sense. I do not see how you managed to turn this into an issue of conservative persecution.  What the hell is your problem with this anyways?


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## CrazyMoronX (Nov 18, 2009)

I think little guy should man up and go on a hunger strike. It might bring more attention to his cause. Who cares if you don't say the pledge?


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## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Attention local, state, or national level is good for the cause the kid is going for. Keep in mind what his motivation behind this is. Also, how the hell is this peer pressuring people into submission? Unless you actually read the article or saw the video, you'd know he's been getting a lot of flak, ESPECIALLY from his peers.



Come on, don't tell me you see how all the time schools have a little bit of controversy and the next thing there is nothing but news swarms and hate mail to these places.   And then there is the threats of lawsuits from various "rights" groups, and forces people to change.

Frankly, it won't be long before people calling these people "backwards rednecks".



Seto Kaiba said:


> You're making no sense. I do not see how you managed to turn this into an issue of conservative persecution.  What the hell is your problem with this anyways?



Just pointing out hypocrisy.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> Come on, don't tell me you see how all the time schools have a little bit of controversy and the next thing there is nothing but news swarms and hate mail to these places.   And then there is the threats of lawsuits from various "rights" groups, and forces people to change.
> 
> Frankly, it won't be long before people calling these people "backwards rednecks".



I can't believe you are trying those who ostracized him to begin with into the victims. 



> Just pointing out hypocrisy.



You're making up nonsense.


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## Adonis (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> Frankly, it won't be long before people calling these people "backwards rednecks".



If the shoe fits.





> Just pointing out hypocrisy.



In other words, you're upset that homophobia is being called what it is: outdated bigotry.


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## Xyloxi (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> Yes, I'm serious.  You see it all the time in conservative bashing here.



The problem is the American Conservative, being too far right wing, but wanting to be accepted by main stream politics. If you want a proper Conservative who isn't the type of moron who BAWWWWs at state run health care take for example, David Cameron (Conservative leader of the UK) or Comrade Obama. Like it or not, Obama is to the right of the political spectrum. If you want to be taken seriously by the rest of NATO, be centre right rather than the joke the GOP currently is.


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## Le Pirate (Nov 18, 2009)

My class saw this in school today. Half of them laughed and yelled things like "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) LMAO" and the other half started saying he was smart and more aware of things than most his age wouldn't be. Then they started arguing with each other and I just sat there and watched. When the teacher calmed everyone down I got in trouble for being apathetic.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Nov 18, 2009)

Well, considering that there was a case of a 8 year old being a rapist or conducting sexual misconduct toward his female peers......I am not surprised that a 10 year old kid has this kind of opinion that is deemed "beyond" his mentality.

Though, at least, the 10 year old kid's actions are for a good cause.

Smart kid !


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## Rabbit and Rose (Nov 18, 2009)

I wonder if that boy is gay himself.
Hard times in school will come to him.


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## Grrblt (Nov 18, 2009)

What I find amazing is kids saying any form of pledge in school.


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## Elias (Nov 18, 2009)

Tons of kids at my school never said the pledge. I wonder if they were secret gay activists...


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## Jarl lKarl (Nov 18, 2009)

Ninja Zone said:


> My class saw this in school today. Half of them laughed and yelled things like "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) LMAO" and the other half started saying he was smart and more aware of things than most his age wouldn't be. Then they started arguing with each other and I just sat there and watched. When the teacher calmed everyone down I got in trouble for being apathetic.



That is awesome.


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## Hand Banana (Nov 18, 2009)

This comes to mind.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdg0JFtGf_c[/YOUTUBE]


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## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

Adonis said:


> In other words, you're upset that homophobia is being called what it is: outdated bigotry.



Wow, I'm hobophobic because I said CNN's making a mountain out of a molehill.  

FYI, I have gay friends and gay relatives.  I respect their decision.   But nobody has the right to tell one another that their beliefs are right or wrong.



Xyloxi said:


> The problem is the American Conservative, being too far right wing, but wanting to be accepted by main stream politics. If you want a proper Conservative who isn't the type of moron who BAWWWWs at state run health care take for example, David Cameron (Conservative leader of the UK) or Comrade Obama. Like it or not, Obama is to the right of the political spectrum. If you want to be taken seriously by the rest of NATO, be centre right rather than the joke the GOP currently is.



I could care less about overseas politics.   You tend to your business and we will tend to ours.



Seto Kaiba said:


> I can't believe you are trying those who ostracized him to begin with into the victims.



No, you're putting words in my mouth.   I don't approve of teachers name calling on any level, especially when it comes to race, religion, nor sexual preference.

But I really am tired of these egotistical rights groups and news organizations making a little incident into tragedy.  It's like South Park come to life.



Seto Kaiba said:


> You're making up nonsense.



Am I?  Again if this shoe was on the other foot, you guys would be bashing that kid instead of applauding him.   Guaranteed.


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## Talon. (Nov 18, 2009)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I think little guy should man up and go on a hunger strike. It might bring more attention to his cause. *Who cares if you don't say the pledge?*


does "liberty and justice for all" mean anything to you if it didnt apply to everyone?


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## Adonis (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> Wow, I'm hobophobic because I said CNN's making a mountain out of a molehill.
> 
> FYI, I have gay friends and gay relatives.  I respect their decision.   But nobody has the right to tell one another that their beliefs are right or wrong.



Why does this ring as hollow for me as "I have a black friend!?"


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## Vanity (Nov 18, 2009)

Well it's respectable that he wants other people to have rights.


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## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> FYI, I have gay friends and gay relatives.  I respect their decision.   But nobody has the right to tell one another that their beliefs are right or wrong.



Yes, we do, and we would be missing the very point of a free society if we didn't choose to exercise our right to criticize others for their moral failings.



Tyrannos said:


> But I really am tired of these egotistical rights groups and news organizations making a little incident into tragedy.  It's like South Park come to life.



Do yourself a favor and just shut the fuck up right now. You've never in your life been on the receiving end of a social injustice. You have no idea what it means to have the law tell you that you are less than deserving of human respect and dignity.

If wanting what is due to us as members of a free society is "egotism", then damn it, I proudly plead guilty as charged.



Tyrannos said:


> Am I?  Again if this shoe was on the other foot, you guys would be bashing that kid instead of applauding him.   Guaranteed.



Of course we would, and we would be hypocrites to not do so. If a kid speaks out for the cause of justice, he ought to be applauded. If he aligns himself with bigotry and injustice, he is no less deserving of criticism than anyone else.


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## Chee (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> This is just his 15 minutes of fame, that's all.
> 
> But after his 15 minutes are up, he's just going to be part of the choir.



People can't form valid opinions because they are in the media?



> But I really am tired of these egotistical rights groups and news organizations making a little incident into tragedy. It's like South Park come to life.



YOU HEAR THIS 1960S CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT!? GET YOUR EMMETT TILL AND ROSA PARKS OUTTA HERE!

Little "incidents" can have huge outcomes. But I guess they are just "part of the choir" now, huh?


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## KFC (Nov 18, 2009)

Tokoyami said:


> If his voice is not heard why are we discussing this?
> 
> Maybe it won't in his class seeing as how hiw stupid classmates don't seem to understand what he's doing and instead are going "DERP DERP GAYWAD LOLOLOLOL!!!" however others outside it will.



Yeah, stupid 10 year olds not acting maturely...


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## Grrblt (Nov 18, 2009)

Jello Biafra said:


> Do yourself a favor and just shut the fuck up right now. You've never in your life been on the receiving end of a social injustice. You have no idea what it means to have the law tell you that you are less than deserving of human respect and dignity.



How the fuck can you know this?


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## HAL 9000 (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> If those people were indeed gay bashing, then let the superintendent of that school handle it.



Yes because teachers, principles and superintendents are always so fucking good about doing that. Not like one of my classmates, knowing I was bi, said "I wish we still lived at the times where I wouldn't get in trouble for beating up ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" in class... with the teacher.
And if he were doing this against gay marriage you would be supporting him. And I would be doing the same thing I'm doing now: Not caring.


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## Shidoshi (Nov 18, 2009)

Adonis said:


> Why does this ring as hollow for me as "I have a black friend!?"


I read it the same way, Adonis...

...and for an instant, an image of the Stephen-Colbert-I-have-a(n)-<insert adjective here>-friend-picture-smiling-with-thumbs-up motif flashed in my mind's eye.



Close enough approximation, I suppose.


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## Raiden (Nov 18, 2009)

When looking at a situation such as this, my first response is usually that society itself doesn't make sense, but a compliance with it shows that you are mature and growing. However, given what the cause this kid is standing up for, I suppose rebelling against "society" is perfectly normal. Blacks had to do it.


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## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

Grrblt said:


> How the fuck can you know this?



Because if he had, he wouldn't be calling people fighting for their rights egotists.


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## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

Adonis said:


> Why does this ring as hollow for me as "I have a black friend!?"



Oh well.  



Elesar said:


> Yes because teachers, principles and superintendents are always so fucking good about doing that. Not like one of my classmates, knowing I was bi, said "I wish we still lived at the times where I wouldn't get in trouble for beating up ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" in class... with the teacher.
> And if he were doing this against gay marriage you would be supporting him. And I would be doing the same thing I'm doing now: Not caring.



If you don't care, then why are you posting?



Chee said:


> People can't form valid opinions because they are in the media?



Long time, Chee.

Its funny, when it comes to conservatives like Beck and Limbaugh, they aren't allowed to have valid opinions.   But when it's a liberals speaking out, it's their consitutional right.  



Chee said:


> YOU HEAR THIS 1960S CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT!? GET YOUR EMMETT TILL AND ROSA PARKS OUTTA HERE!
> 
> Little "incidents" can have huge outcomes. But I guess they are just "part of the choir" now, huh?



If you want to equate as such to Gay rights then all the more power to you.   But in the end this is about about gay bashing, not gay rights.



Jello Biafra said:


> Yes, we do, and we would be missing the very point of a free society if we didn't choose to exercise our right to criticize others for their moral failings.



And because of that lack of respect, is why there is conflicts over religious beliefs, socialigical problems, and more.



Jello Biafra said:


> Do yourself a favor and just shut the fuck up right now. You've never in your life been on the receiving end of a social injustice. You have no idea what it means to have the law tell you that you are less than deserving of human respect and dignity.
> 
> If wanting what is due to us as members of a free society is "egotism", then damn it, I proudly plead guilty as charged.



Who the fuck are you to tell me that I never been at the receiving end of a social injustice? 



Jello Biafra said:


> Of course we would, and we would be hypocrites to not do so. If a kid speaks out for the cause of justice, he ought to be applauded. If he aligns himself with bigotry and injustice, he is no less deserving of criticism than anyone else.



All he's doing is saying, "Quit picking on my gay friends".    By your logic every kid in school who stands up to bullies need air time.


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## Grrblt (Nov 18, 2009)

Jello Biafra said:


> Because if he had, he wouldn't be calling people fighting for their rights egotists.





People fighting for their right can be egotists. People are generally not one-dimensional.


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## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> And because of that lack of respect, is why there is conflicts over religious beliefs, socialigical problems, and more.



All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to remain silent and do nothing. Like Martin Luther King, I believe there comes a time when silence is betrayal.

You can't have it both ways. Either you want a free society, in which case it is well within my right to criticize you or anyone else, or you can have the totalitarian enforcement of the status quo consensus. There is no middle ground on this issue.

Since it is a free society, or at least claims to be, I have no duty to remain silent, or to even respect you or your choices.



Tyrannos said:


> Who the fuck are you to tell me that I never been at the receiving end of a social injustice?



Someone who isn't in her first redeo. I've seen this done a thousand times before, and everytime it was the same. Someone was complaining about their illegitimate entitlement being undermined.



Tyrannos said:


> All he's doing is saying, "Quit picking on my gay friends".    By your logic every kid in school who stands up to bullies need air time.



In this case, the bully is the state and every reactionary organization that is more than willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want. And I applaud him for standing up to this bully, and will do everything in my power to shame you for your endorsement of slave morality.


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## 海外ニキ (Nov 18, 2009)

Why didn't I think of doing this?


This kid is fucking awesome.


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## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

Grrblt said:


> People fighting for their right can be egotists. People are generally not one-dimensional.



So what? Egotism has extremely negative connotations, and it's pretty clear he meant all of them.


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## DisgustingIdiot (Nov 18, 2009)

Grrblt said:


> What I find amazing is kids saying any form of pledge in school.



Honestly I find the idea reprehensible but that's just me. 

Anyways awesome kid is awesome.


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## Marmite. (Nov 18, 2009)

That kid is such a little gaywad.


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## Grrblt (Nov 18, 2009)

Jello Biafra said:


> So what? Egotism has extremely negative connotations, and it's pretty clear he meant all of them.



No, what's pretty clear is that he meant the ones he mentioned in post 20.


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## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

Jello Biafra said:


> All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to remain silent and do nothing. Like Martin Luther King, I believe there comes a time when silence is betrayal.
> 
> You can't have it both ways. Either you want a free society, in which case it is well within my right to criticize you or anyone else, or you can have the totalitarian enforcement of the status quo consensus. There is no middle ground on this issue.
> 
> Since it is a free society, or at least claims to be, I have no duty to remain silent, or to even respect you or your choices.



Again, this isn't about rights, this is about gay bashing.



Jello Biafra said:


> Someone who isn't in her first redeo. I've seen this done a thousand times before, and everytime it was the same. Someone was complaining about their illegitimate entitlement being undermined.



Again, what does this have to do with me never being at the receiving end of a social injustice?

All you are doing is avoiding the question you insinuated with a bunch of fancy talk to make yourself more important.



Jello Biafra said:


> In this case, the bully is the state and every reactionary organization that is more than willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want. And I applaud him for standing up to this bully, and will do everything in my power to shame you for your endorsement of slave morality.



This has nothing to do with slave morality.  You are grandstanding an issue in turning gay bashing into a gay rights issue and blaming the state when it was a subsitute teacher who did this, not the educational system.


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## Chee (Nov 18, 2009)

> Long time, Chee.
> 
> Its funny, when it comes to conservatives like Beck and Limbaugh, they aren't allowed to have valid opinions. But when it's a liberals speaking out, it's their consitutional right.



I didn't say anything about Beck and Limbaugh not being allowed to have a valid opinion, if anything I was supporting the fact that they do and so does this kid. He formed an opinion just for "15 minutes of fame" was what your post was implying and that's what I disagree with. He had this opinion before the media swooped in and I'm pretty damn sure he'll have the same opinion after the media.



> If you want to equate as such to Gay rights then all the more power to you. But in the end this is about about gay bashing, not gay rights.



The kid is not pledging because gays do not have all the rights that heterosexuals have. Yes, it is about gay rights, not gay bashing.


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## vivEnergy (Nov 18, 2009)

> I think they should have the rights all people should



Is he living in Iran or something ?
Does he even what he is talking about ?

Here's a clear misunderstanding of what is the law and people's opinion.

And no getting married in a church isn't a right.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> No, you're putting words in my mouth.   I don't approve of teachers name calling on any level, especially when it comes to race, religion, nor sexual preference.
> 
> But I really am tired of these egotistical rights groups and news organizations making a little incident into tragedy.  It's like South Park come to life.



Did you even read the article? 



> If you want to equate as such to Gay rights then all the more power to you. But in the end this is about about gay bashing, not gay rights.



I guess not...



> Am I?  Again if this shoe was on the other foot, you guys would be bashing that kid instead of applauding him.   Guaranteed.



Yes, you are. You seem to be making ridiculous statements based on some conservative persecution complex.


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## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> Again, this isn't about rights, this is about gay bashing.



Yes, it is. Did you even read the damn article?



Tyrannos said:


> Again, what does this have to do with me never being at the receiving end of a social injustice?
> 
> All you are doing is avoiding the question you insinuated with a bunch of fancy talk to make yourself more important.



Translation: I don't have anything to refute your argument, so I'm going to insinuate that you're an out of touch elitist.



Tyrannos said:


> This has nothing to do with slave morality.  You are grandstanding an issue in turning gay bashing into a gay rights issue and blaming the state when it was a subsitute teacher who did this, not the educational system.



Yes, it does. Gays still do not have equal rights to heterosexuals in the United States, and only a complete fool would disagree. This is a gay rights issue, pure and simple.


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## Satsuki (Nov 18, 2009)

pek I want to give that kid a huge hug. He has more sense than most everyone at my school.


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## Dash (Nov 18, 2009)

Kid sounds very mature for his age, father must be proud.


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## Hand Banana (Nov 18, 2009)

Jello Biafra said:


> Yes, it is. Did you even read the damn article?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jello haev mah babi3s nao


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Nov 18, 2009)

This mature and smart at this age? He has a bright future ahead of him.

Also, his cause is good.


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## Marmite. (Nov 18, 2009)

Honestly, I see nothing positive in what this kid is doing: Its disruptive behavior and irresponsible.


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## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

-MBS- said:


> Honestly, I see nothing positive in what this kid is doing: Its disruptive behavior and irresponsible.



"Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. For it has been through disobedience and through rebellion that all progress has been made." ~ Oscar Wilde.


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## Simulacrum (Nov 18, 2009)

ah, i like the roflingtonpost's editing on this one. here's a repeat of part of what he said during the interview, but with the entire statement unedited. transcript and video can be found on the link below. 



> ROBERTS: All right. So what did you decide in analyzing the meanings of it that caused you not to stand up and recite the pledge?
> 
> WILL PHILLIPS: Well, I looked at the end and it said "with liberty and justice for all." And there really isn't liberty and justice for all. There's -- gays and lesbians can't marry. *There's still a lot of racism and sexism in the world, yes.*


 

ahhhhhhhhhh hahahahsdkjfjaksjd yessssssss. what does sexism and racism have to do with it? nothing, the kid has no idea what he's talking about, and only repeats what prefabricated bits he can remember from the talking points someone fed him. he'll have a great future being a democrat voter, no doubt. but, the parrot-child could have used some more work before being unleashed to the public, me thinks. the interviewer from CNN did his part in coaching the boy through it, though.


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## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> ah, i like the roflingtonpost's editing on this one. here's a repeat of part of what he said during the interview, but with the entire statement unedited. transcript and video can be found on the link below.
> 
> 
> 
> ahhhhhhhhhh hahahahsdkjfjaksjd yessssssss. what does sexism and racism have to do with it? nothing, the kid has no idea what he's talking about, and only repeats what prefabricated bits he can remember from the talking points someone fed him. the parrot-child could have used some more work before being unleashed to the public, me thinks. the interviewer from CNN did his part in coaching the boy through it, though.



Life must be a game of moral limbo for you, because everytime I ask myself how low can you go, you manage to out do yourself.

Nice straw man, btw. The kids fucking ten years old, give him a fucking break. Since he disagrees with you, and is willing to stand up for what he believes in, he must be someone's puppet.


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## Marmite. (Nov 18, 2009)

Jello Biafra said:


> "Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. For it has been through disobedience and through rebellion that all progress has been made." ~ Oscar Wilde.



A school is not a place where Disobedience should be encouraged. This is where they're are supposed to be encouraged to become a decent member of society for fuck sake.


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## Adonis (Nov 18, 2009)

-MBS- said:


> A school is not a place where Disobedience should be encouraged. This is where they're are supposed to be encouraged to become a decent member of society for fuck sake.



Disobedience makes someone an indecent member of society?

...

Yeah, stupid question.


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## Sky is Over (Nov 18, 2009)

I think the issue lying in this is that not that the kid's standing up for the rights of homosexuals, but that he's intertwining loyalty to his native country in the process by not pledging to the flag. IMO, the motive is good, but needs a different form of execution. :/


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## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Did you even read the article?
> 
> I guess not...





Jello Biafra said:


> Yes, it is. Did you even read the damn article?



Just look at the end, he's let it out that he was being called "Gaywad" because he's not participating in the pledge protest.

This isn't about Gay rights, this is about Gay bashing.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Yes, you are. You seem to be making ridiculous statements based on some conservative persecution complex.



Oh come on Seto, it's not a secret that the majority of this forum constantly rag on Beck, Limbaugh, and Republicans in general. 

So if that's a complex, then guilty as charged.



Jello Biafra said:


> Translation: I don't have anything to refute your argument, so I'm going to insinuate that you're an out of touch elitist.



How am I elitest?  What am I being elitist about?   For stating the obvious?



Jello Biafra said:


> Yes, it does. Gays still do not have equal rights to heterosexuals in the United States, and only a complete fool would disagree. This is a gay rights issue, pure and simple.



Last I checked, Homosexuals have the same rights as any other person, with the exception of Gay marriage.  



Chee said:


> I didn't say anything about Beck and Limbaugh not being allowed to have a valid opinion, if anything I was supporting the fact that they do and so does this kid. He formed an opinion just for "15 minutes of fame" was what your post was implying and that's what I disagree with. He had this opinion before the media swooped in and I'm pretty damn sure he'll have the same opinion after the media.



I know you didn't, it's others here that do.

The media just loves blowing things out of proportion for the sake of ratings.   Okay, so he got on TV to voice his thoughts on Gay rights, that's fine.   But after this, the kid's back out doing his thing.



Chee said:


> The kid is not pledging because gays do not have all the rights that heterosexuals have. Yes, it is about gay rights, not gay bashing.



As I said to Jello, the only thing they don't have the rights to is to marriage.   Unless someone here wishes to educate me on what else they don't have rights to.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

-MBS- said:


> A school is not a place where Disobedience should be encouraged. This is where they're are supposed to be encouraged to become a decent member of society for fuck sake.



Being a decent member of society implies engaging in dissent when there are injustices.


----------



## Adonis (Nov 18, 2009)

Sky is Over said:


> I think the issue lying in this is that not that the kid's standing up for the rights of homosexuals, but that he's intertwining loyalty to his native country in the process by not pledging to the flag. IMO, the motive is good, but needs a different form of *execution*. :/



You want to kill the kid? FASCIST! 

Seriously, though, the pledge is nothing but meaningless symbolism.

@Tyrannos: You're bitter because you're behind the curve when it comes to civil rights--or empathy--and get called out for following behind religious nutjobs and bigots. You're free to hold your ignorant views and others are free to point out your ignorance. The only reason you hold the spineless "nobody has the right to call anyone else's opinion right or wrong" stance is because yours can't hold up to the scrutiny of reason or decency thus are rightly mocked.



Sky is Over said:


> *Stuffs swastika band back into pocket.*
> 
> And with the pledge, yes and no, more based on the individual.



No one's loyalty to country has ever been bolstered by the pledge. Reciting it doesn't accomplish anything. At best, it merely verbally corroborates a person's *already-existing* nationalism. It's an empty gesture.


----------



## The Saltiest Pizza (Nov 18, 2009)

Doesn't the 1st Amendment give anyone the right to peaceful protest?

Because last time I checked, it does. and this kid's protest is about as peaceful as you get.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> Just look at the end, he's let it out that he was being called "Gaywad" because he's not participating in the pledge protest.
> 
> This isn't about Gay rights, this is about Gay bashing.



That event spurred him to action. If you'd read the article, you'd understand that. But no, you're going to mine and take things out of context.



Tyrannos said:


> How am I elitest?  What am I being elitist about?   For stating the obvious?



Can you not read or something? I was charging you with avoiding the argument and engaging in ad hominem.



Tyrannos said:


> Last I checked, Homosexuals have the same rights as any other person, with the exception of Gay marriage.



In a majority of states, there are no laws prohibiting discrimination of homosexuals. IN many states, gays cannot adopt. We cannot openly serve in the military. In a number of states, we can't get insurance for our partners when heterosexual couples can.


----------



## Sky is Over (Nov 18, 2009)

Adonis said:


> You want to kill the kid? FASCIST!
> 
> Seriously, though, the pledge is nothing but meaningless symbolism.



*Stuffs swastika band back into pocket.*

And with the pledge, yes and no, more based on the individual.


----------



## 海外ニキ (Nov 18, 2009)

Does that mean if I'm not a believer in God, I shouldn't pledge my allegiance?


I suppose that's my own hypocrisy.


----------



## superattackpea (Nov 18, 2009)

I applaud this kid, he's a bright hope for the future.


----------



## Psycho (Nov 18, 2009)

sadly we don't have believe it! here to talk about the evilness of the gay mafia anymore


----------



## Ennoea (Nov 18, 2009)

If you want to stand for your beliefs at such a young age then good for you. Stick it to them.


----------



## Marmite. (Nov 18, 2009)

Adonis said:


> Disobedience makes someone an indecent member of society?
> 
> ...
> 
> Yeah, stupid question.



Normally yes. 



Jello Biafra said:


> Being a decent member of society implies engaging in dissent when there are injustices.



There's a time and a place for that. Why should other kids education be disrupted for this little gaywad making his so called stand?


----------



## 海外ニキ (Nov 18, 2009)

-MBS- said:


> There's a time and a place for that. Why should other kids education be disrupted for this little gaywad making his so called stand?



There wouldn't be disruption, if there was understanding.


----------



## Adonis (Nov 18, 2009)

-MBS- said:


> Normally yes.



The point I was trying to make, before remembering that society does indeed breed conformity as a goal, is that obedience isn't the virtue it's extolled as.





> There's a time and a place for that. Why should other kids education be disrupted for this little gaywad making his so called stand?



Free speech zones, I gather?


----------



## Almaseti (Nov 18, 2009)

He's not disrupting anything, he's refusing to participate in what he sees as hypocrisy.  It's not like it's going to have a negative effect on the other kids if one of them doesn't stand up and repeat the pledge with them.  Unless you think being made aware of injustice is bad?  It's before the lessons even start, so it's not disrupting that, and it's not delaying the start of the lessons unless the teacher decides to make a big deal about it. So no, it's not disruptive.


----------



## WaterSamurai (Nov 18, 2009)

-MBS- said:


> A school is not a place where Disobedience should be encouraged. This is where they're are supposed to be encouraged to _become a decent member of society_ for fuck sake.



lol

Standing up for your own belief isn't the sign of a decent person? 

I think Almaseti said it best, prior to my post.


----------



## Sky is Over (Nov 18, 2009)

> No one's loyalty to country has ever been bolstered by the pledge. Reciting it doesn't accomplish anything. At best, it merely verbally corroborates a person's already-existing nationalism. It's an empty gesture.



That's true, but the gesture isn't empty if the person has beliefs and values couple to nationalism. Outside of that, just a bit of ego-stroking or mindless obedience. My respect goes out to the people who understand and have loyalty to their country.

And what's up with some of the big pairing fandom names popping up in this thread?


----------



## Adonis (Nov 18, 2009)

WaterSamurai said:


> lol
> 
> *Standing up* for your own belief isn't the sign of a decent person?



Staying seated for your own belief...


----------



## WaterSamurai (Nov 18, 2009)

Adonis said:


> Staying seated for your own belief...



A figure of speech.


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 18, 2009)

That's sweet. Even if this doesn't change anything, at least he is trying.


----------



## Chee (Nov 18, 2009)

> A school is not a place where Disobedience should be encouraged. This is where they're are supposed to be encouraged to become a decent member of society for fuck sake.



Pledging alligence is optional to students, he's not being disobedient.


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 18, 2009)

Tyrannos said:


> Just look at the end, he's let it out that he was being called "Gaywad" because he's not participating in the pledge protest.
> 
> This isn't about Gay rights, this is about Gay bashing.


How can he be fighting "gay bashing" if he didn't get flack for it until *after* he decided not to recite the pledge of allegiance?

Is the kid gay?



> _How am I elitest?  What am I being elitist about?   For stating the obvious?_


I don't believe Jello's calling you elitist, she's saying that's what the argument translates to.



> _Last I checked, Homosexuals have the same rights as any other person, with the exception of Gay marriage._


Then, by that very definition, you're admitting that gays are "_almost_ equal".  If I'm mistaken, please correct me.



> _I know you didn't, it's others here that do.
> 
> The media just loves blowing things out of proportion for the sake of ratings.   Okay, so he got on TV to voice his thoughts on Gay rights, that's fine.   But after this, the kid's back out doing his thing._


I think the thing is that it's ultimately a small part of a much larger picture of the rights of certain citizens in this country.  Not that this kid is the instrument of fundamental change.



> _As I said to Jello, the only thing they don't have the rights to is to marriage.   Unless someone here wishes to educate me on what else they don't have rights to._


"Almost equal" is not equal.  I'm not gay, but I don't have a problem with homosexuals getting married (and that union being referred to as "marriage").  To quote the great Peter Griffin:  "If gays wanna get married and be as miserable as the rest of us, I say 'more power to 'em!'..."


----------



## Chee (Nov 18, 2009)

> As I said to Jello, the only thing they don't have the rights to is to marriage. Unless someone here wishes to educate me on what else they don't have rights to.



Then they are being denied their right to marriage. They don't have the same rights as heterosexuals.

And sure:
- In some states, the right to adopt a child.
- Discharged from the military if they are openly gay.


----------



## -Dargor- (Nov 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> Bright? Maybe, maybe not.  Socially sensitive?  Certainly.  Seriously, most people today think anyone under the age of 13 can't articulate a sentence.  Nice to see things like this.


Thats because over 90% of the people under age 13 can't articulate a proper sentence.

Hell, make that 16 years old.


----------



## Narutard in footeh jamas (Nov 18, 2009)

That kid is bright. I'm glad even a ten year old had such insight on the topic.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Nov 18, 2009)

A valiant effort I suppose, but if his school is anything like mine I doubt it will accomplish much. It could actually have the opposite effect, with him being branded as "that guy" for the remainder of his years there. :/


----------



## On and On (Nov 18, 2009)

A+ job, kid.


----------



## Tyrannos (Nov 18, 2009)

Shidoshi said:


> How can he be fighting "gay bashing" if he didn't get flack for it until *after* he decided not to recite the pledge of allegiance?
> 
> Is the kid gay?



To be honest, I have no idea.

But to me, it's gay bashing because his act of defiance turned from his support of gay rights to gay bashing when the article mentioned the slurs at the end.   If people focus on the act of defiance itself, then kudos.



Shidoshi said:


> I don't believe Jello's calling you elitist, she's saying that's what the argument translates to.



To each their own.  I already discussed this with Jello in private.



Shidoshi said:


> Then, by that very definition, you're admitting that gays are "_almost_ equal".  If I'm mistaken, please correct me.
> 
> I think the thing is that it's ultimately a small part of a much larger picture of the rights of certain citizens in this country.  Not that this kid is the instrument of fundamental change.



To me, gays and lesbians are as equal as any other person.  In which, I have no qualms with homosexuals.  I don't know why people are stating I'm gay hater when I never even said anything negative towards them.

Look, it's nice the kid is standing up for people he supports.   But the media doesn't need to captialize this for ratings as they usually do.   After all, how many other times over the years there was similar defiance for not saying the Pledge?



Shidoshi said:


> "Almost equal" is not equal.  I'm not gay, but I don't have a problem with homosexuals getting married (and that union being referred to as "marriage").  To quote the great Peter Griffin:  "If gays wanna get married and be as miserable as the rest of us, I say 'more power to 'em!'..."



And I don't disagree with you.




Chee said:


> Then they are being denied their right to marriage. They don't have the same rights as heterosexuals.
> 
> And sure:
> - In some states, the right to adopt a child.
> - Discharged from the military if they are openly gay.



And that's changing is it not?


----------



## EvanNJames (Nov 19, 2009)

Props to the kid... the media attention will catch on, people will go on and on and on about it...
But I'm glad, even at the age of ten, a kid can understand their grounds and stick with their beliefs.

The best that could come out of this, however, is maybe a few copy cats. *Maybe*.


Hate to say it, but America's society has a short attention span. We're always looking to drool over the next taboo or racy subject (spectacle).


----------



## Zabuzalives (Nov 19, 2009)

Raizen Emperor said:


> Really great story, already a bright kid, there is a video interview in the link as well.



wonder if its really the kids idea. probably not. 

Its good to see certain media be quick to push him forward as a posterboy for the ""cause"" though.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Nov 19, 2009)

Zabuzalives said:


> wonder if its really the kids idea. probably not.
> 
> Its good to see certain media be quick to push him forward as a posterboy for the ""cause"" though.



Is it that hard to believe that a child doesn't want to repeat the same lie every morning?


----------



## Hinako (Nov 19, 2009)

Tokoyami said:


> If his voice is not heard why are we discussing this?
> 
> Maybe it won't in his class seeing as how his stupid classmates don't seem to understand what he's doing and instead are going "DERP DERP GAYWAD LOLOLOLOL!!!" however others outside it will.


He won't make a big difference, because he's ten. We all know grown adults don't take kids seriously unless they are super geniuses or something of that sort.



Jello Biafra said:


> Do yourself a favor and just shut the fuck up right now. You've never in your life been on the receiving end of a social injustice. You have no idea what it means to have the law tell you that you are less than deserving of human respect and dignity.


I can tell you're bawwwing real hard right now. I should tell you about possibly the most basic form of social injustice, bullying. I'm sure a lot of people here have been picked on <___<


----------



## Saufsoldat (Nov 19, 2009)

Hinako said:


> I can tell you're bawwwing real hard right now. I should tell you about possibly the most basic form of social injustice, bullying. I'm sure a lot of people here have been picked on <___<



We're talking about government sanctified bullying here.


----------



## Hinako (Nov 19, 2009)

And the blacks overcame it, but the gays are still stuck in reverse.


----------



## aquis45 (Nov 19, 2009)

Saufsoldat said:


> We're talking about government sanctified bullying here.



Freedom of speech. Aren't gays protected by hate crime legislature now?


----------



## Zabuzalives (Nov 19, 2009)

Saufsoldat said:


> Is it that hard to believe that a child doesn't want to repeat the same lie every morning?



yes. 

questioning assumed truths, critisizing the judicial system, forming strong beliefs you are willing to stand out negatively for. (hes the ""gaywad"" now) 

are VERY rarely seen in children. 

These views were probably hammered into him by his family. Wouldnt suprise me if ""not standing up"" was an idea of them as well. 



you think conservatives and religious people are the only ones who are a strong influence on their childrens views??

If he would not stand up for the pledge as hes ""thinking that the law is postively discriminating gays with their gay-marriage in his state...""

You would be the first to scream he was probably indoctrinated by his religious intolerant parents right??


----------



## Saufsoldat (Nov 19, 2009)

aquis45 said:


> Freedom of speech. Aren't gays protected by hate crime legislature now?



Well then freedom of speech should include apartheid as well, I suppose? I'm talking mainly about the defense of marriage act, officially supporting the discrimination against homosexuals.



Zabuzalives said:


> yes.
> 
> questioning assumed truths,



You're kidding, right? Go tell a child that fire is hot and dangerous and then leave them alone with a little camp fire for 5 minutes.



> critisizing the judicial system,



Fancy way of putting it. Kids often ask their parents why certain things are against the law.



> forming strong beliefs you are willing to stand out negatively for. (hes the ""gaywad"" now)



You should add "foreseeing the social repercussions of speaking out for what you think is right" because that's what you're expecting from a 10-year-old.



> are VERY rarely seen in children.



Actually they're common.



> These views were probably hammered into him by his family. Wouldnt suprise me if ""not standing up"" was an idea of them as well.
> 
> you think conservatives and religious people are the only ones who are a strong influence on their childrens views??
> 
> ...



I never said that he wasn't influenced by his parents, his family probably has gay friends. Would it be indoctrination if a child spoke out against apartheid after his parents told him what it's about?


----------



## aquis45 (Nov 19, 2009)

Zabuzalives said:


> yes.
> 
> questioning assumed truths, critisizing the judicial system, forming strong beliefs you are willing to stand out negatively for. (hes the ""gaywad"" now)
> 
> ...



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8x14cLGh5o[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Hinako (Nov 19, 2009)

I laughed... not bad tho.


----------



## Zabuzalives (Nov 19, 2009)

Saufsoldat said:


> You're kidding, right? Go tell a child that fire is hot and dangerous and then leave them alone with a little camp fire for 5 minutes.



they are pretty gullible. aka believing in Santa Claus. 



Saufsoldat said:


> Fancy way of putting it. Kids often ask their parents why certain things are against the law.



Exactly..their parents...

they lack insight to judge for themselves as its not an easy matter. When things seem unfair they will ask around. 

parents can then reassure them..leading him to simple recite the pledge. Or go on and on about the ""apartheid-like"" treatment of gays. 



Saufsoldat said:


> You should add "foreseeing the social repercussions of speaking out for what you think is right" because that's what you're expecting from a 10-year-old.



nope. He went through with it and gotten negative feedback...yet CONTINUES. 
his friends are calling him gaywad while the teacher asks him to just recite. 

i guess fitting in the group and having friends is not much of a concern for 10 year olds. 
They are too busy adressing the unjust legal system and standing up for other groups unquestionable human rights. 



Saufsoldat said:


> Actually they're common.



This is just in: 80% of the children do not want to recite the pledge. 
They have started a philosophical discussion about the nature of justice and discrimination and to what extent it has found its way into the current judicial system. 



Saufsoldat said:


> I never said that he wasn't influenced by his parents, his family probably has gay friends. Would it be indoctrination if a child spoke out against apartheid after his parents told him what it's about?



nope. But here you act like if the parents just told him about the issue. 

Seeing we are then to assume he formed such a strong opinion out of his own, and then does not waver even if face of being ridiculed and pressured by the teacher. 

No im thinking his family told him about the issue. and then told him that it is terrible, and bigoted, and segregation, and discrimination. 

Aka pushing their views on the kid quite hard. 

I will leave crying about ""indoctrination"" to the liberals though. 
Just stating the hypocrisy in how you guys herald him like a hero, but would call him indoctrinated if his opinion would be just a little different.


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 19, 2009)

First Tsurugi said:


> A valiant effort I suppose, but if his school is anything like mine I doubt it will accomplish much. It could actually have the opposite effect, with him being branded as "that guy" for the remainder of his years there. :/



Until he gets a book deal, makes millions and makes the entire school his bitch.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Nov 19, 2009)

Zabuzalives said:


> they are pretty gullible. aka believing in Santa Claus.



Oh right, I forgot that so many 10-year-olds still believe in santa 



> Exactly..their parents...
> 
> they lack insight to judge for themselves as its not an easy matter. When things seem unfair they will ask around.
> 
> parents can then reassure them..leading him to simple recite the pledge. Or go on and on about the ""apartheid-like"" treatment of gays.



And his parents chose to tell him the truth rather than teaching him the appeal to authority fallacy.



> nope. He went through with it and gotten negative feedback...yet CONTINUES.
> his friends are calling him gaywad while the teacher asks him to just recite.



Maybe he doesn't care? Maybe he likes to strive against the stream? Nobody said he's an average 10-year-old.



> i guess fitting in the group and having friends is not much of a concern for 10 year olds.
> They are too busy adressing the unjust legal system and standing up for other groups unquestionable human rights.



 You think way too much about the kids calling him gaywad. Friends insult each other, it's normal, get over it.



> This is just in: 80% of the children do not want to recite the pledge.
> They have started a philosophical discussion about the nature of justice and discrimination and to what extent it has found its way into the current judicial system.



I don't know any child that wants to recite stuff.



> nope. But here you act like if the parents just told him about the issue.



You act like they're forcing him to stand up for gay rights while he just wants to discriminate against other people like any normal child should.



> Seeing we are then to assume he formed such a strong opinion out of his own, and then does not waver even if face of being ridiculed and pressured by the teacher.



What strong opinion? I stood up to teachers all the time when I thought they were wrong about something.



> No im thinking his family told him about the issue. and then told him that it is terrible, and bigoted, and segregation, and discrimination.
> 
> Aka pushing their views on the kid quite hard.
> 
> ...



Newsflash: Kids are idealistic. I had a lot of opinions on a lot of things when I was younger and I was never shy to proclaim them.

Besides, the kid has gay friends. Isn't it a bit more likely that they told him what's going on and how they're being discriminated against. I still don't see the difference between this and a black friend telling the child that he's being discriminated against.


----------



## colours (Nov 19, 2009)

that's nice to see

almost gives me hope for that younger generations won't be so irrational and idiotic


----------



## Zabuzalives (Nov 19, 2009)

Saufsoldat said:


> Oh right, I forgot that so many 10-year-olds still believe in santa



hes not in his puberty. Peer pressure and authority figures have a lot of influence.

In this case as well. The authority figures being his parents.




Saufsoldat said:


> And his parents chose to tell him the truth rather than teaching him the appeal to authority fallacy.



Correction: their truth. 



Saufsoldat said:


> Maybe he doesn't care? Maybe he likes to strive against the stream? Nobody said he's an average 10-year-old.



exactly. Its rare for a child to act like this. Hence the doubts. 

Children being a rebel for rebel sakes hardly look deep into judicial argumentation and cases. 



Saufsoldat said:


> You think way too much about the kids calling him gaywad. Friends insult each other, it's normal, get over it.



If your friends think your behaviour is ""gay"" that is negative feedback. 

That he maintains his position without doubt just seems certain opinions have been repeated a lot at his home



Saufsoldat said:


> I don't know any child that wants to recite stuff.



nah they rather stand apart from the group and have negative attention focused on them ofcourse. 



Saufsoldat said:


> You act like they're forcing him to stand up for gay rights



I feel they are trying to make this an issue and are using the kid for it.



Saufsoldat said:


> while he just wants to discriminate against other people like any normal child should.



what? he wants to discriminate?? 



Saufsoldat said:


> What strong opinion? I stood up to teachers all the time when I thought they were wrong about something.



while you friends claimed you were being gay. Someone must be very persuasive in telling you the teacher was wrong. 



Saufsoldat said:


> Newsflash: Kids are idealistic. I had a lot of opinions on a lot of things when I was younger and I was never shy to proclaim them.



But this is a complex case. to connect the pledge to discrimination in marriage rights of another group. 

Again..i am proven right by the fact this is even a news item gaining so many responses.It is rare.  



Saufsoldat said:


> Besides, the kid has gay friends. Isn't it a bit more likely that they told him what's going on and how they're being discriminated against. I still don't see the difference between this and a black friend telling the child that he's being discriminated against.



""hey kid..dont stand up during the pledge...that will draw attention!"" is my best bet.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 19, 2009)

colours said:


> that's nice to see
> 
> almost gives me hope for that younger generations won't be so irrational and idiotic



in other news twilight opens today


----------



## Almaseti (Nov 20, 2009)

I can tell you that 10 year olds, or at least the one's I've known, can be pretty bright.  Not always, that's true, but there are definitely 10 year olds that can carry on an interesting conversation on things like politics or whatever they're currently learning in school.  This kid happens to be one of the early bloomers.

I mean yeah, his parents probably told him stuff to the affect that gay people are people too, and denying them the right to marriage is discrimination, but I'd be really surprised if anyone told him to protest it by refusing to say the pledge.  This wouldn't be getting so much attention if it was a common occurrence, which makes me think that this is something the kid came up with on his own.


----------



## Elias (Nov 20, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> in other news twilight opens today





I almost forgot! That's the _real_ story.


----------



## SwordKing (Nov 20, 2009)

It's good thing the kid did this is elementry school, or else no one might have noticed. By the time I was in high school, I was the ONLY one besides my homeroom teacher who stood for the pledge.

I just hope the grief his classmates are putting him through doesn't get any worse than name calling.


----------



## kazuri (Nov 20, 2009)

> are VERY rarely seen in children.
> 
> These views were probably hammered into him by his family. Wouldnt suprise me if ""not standing up"" was an idea of them as well.



And assumptions are very common in older people.

When I was in highschool I quit saying the pledge, on my own accord, because of the whole in god we trust thing. (this was long before it was a controversial thing on the "news")


----------



## WaterSamurai (Nov 20, 2009)

On the Santa Claus thing, I figured out he was a fake a long time ago because I, and I'm sure I wasn't the only child capable of doing this at the time, did some research on the subject that I liked. I'm sure kids these days are the same, and....

It's possible that this kid did the same thing, but instead of Santa, it's for Big Gay Al. 

Not all children are stupid little brats.


----------



## Miss Fortune (Nov 20, 2009)

*I didn't know that schools still allowed the pledge of alleigence to be said. 

Must be in certain states.*


----------



## The Saltiest Pizza (Nov 20, 2009)

^ My High School does, although no one really cares whether or not you recite it.


----------



## neko-sennin (Nov 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> Bright? Maybe, maybe not. Socially sensitive?  Certainly. Seriously, most people today think anyone under the age of 13 can't articulate a sentence. Nice to see things like this.



My guess is that, if not his parents than at least other figures in his childhood actually encouraged him to ask questions and think about stuff, rather than saying "Go away, son, you bother me" and parking his ass in front of a TV.



Almaseti said:


> I can tell you that 10 year old's, or at least the one's I've known, can be pretty bright. Not always, that's true, but there are definitely 10 year old's that can carry on an interesting conversation on things like politics or whatever they're currently learning in school. This kid happens to be one of the early bloomers.



Oddly, enough, I can't help thinking of my aunt, and how a parent like her could be a major influence in a child's maturity. She was always the kind of person you could talk about anything and everything with, even awkward or controversial stuff most other adults would try to discourage a child from even thinking about.



Tokoyami said:


> "DERP DERP GAYWAD LOLOLOLOL!!!"



Sadly, Tokoyami, you've managed to nail down the typical 10-year-old response to issues like this, based on my own grade school experience. Though I will also admit that kids these days are much more knowledgeable about sex than I was that age. About all I really knew at that age was that us guys had penises, and girls had... something. 

My only real exposure to homosexual slurs in grade-school was, ironically, the Alternative Pledge ("I pledge allegiance to the flag, Michael Jackson is a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)..." and I'm afraid I can't recall the rest of it) that some kids chanted on the bus. But back then, I had no idea what a "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" was, I just thought it was one of many random insults other kids uttered, that no one ever got around to explaining the meaning of.



Adonis said:


> Yes, because a majority needs advocation for things to be "balanced."



As usual, your insightful commentary cuts through the bullshit and gets right down to the point.



Seto Kaiba said:


> I do not see how you managed to turn this into an issue of conservative persecution.



It's not that hard. When it comes to Christian conservatives, they've done an admirable job of hanging on to some Judean cult's persecution complex in spite of being the official state religion of the Roman, Holy Roman, Spanish, English and American Empires over the past 1500+ years, inflicting more than their share of religious persecution around the world in the last 500 or so. And they still manage to feel butthurt and "persecuted" when they're not terribly welcome in some countries their ancestors screwed up.

Meanwhile, when it comes to less religious conservatives, there are entire factions of them in business and other fields who are, at heart, control freaks of one species or another, tend to project their own views onto the majority, and seem to feel "persecuted" whenever individuals actually assert their own will.



Zabuzalives said:


> hes not in his puberty. Peer pressure and authority figures have a lot of influence.



Your mileage may vary. When I was a kid, I wasn't overwhelmingly concerned with adults thought anyway. Though in my case, it was just because I was a very asocial child who wasn't very interested in what his peers thought, either, rather than any sort of reformer or social rebel. On the other hand, I was always a sucker for reading material, and my tendency to always be on "wrong page" in history class led me to read about a lot of stuff that wasn't in the grade-school curriculum. Some of the coolest stuff I read in that book in the fourth grade was about ancient North and South American civilizations, civilian workers standing up even against the National Guard, and Rosa Parks refusing to sit in the back.


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## C. Hook (Nov 22, 2009)

I said the Pledge of Alliegance at High School (I'm one of the few students who did), but only the original, pre-edited version without "Under God", mostly because I'm agnostic. That said, I believe the pledge refers to the ideal America, not the actual America. I can understand this kid not doing it.


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## Kusogitsune (Nov 22, 2009)

Zabuzalives said:


> they are pretty gullible. aka believing in Santa Claus.


What 10 year old still believes in Santa Claus?


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## Shinigami Perv (Nov 22, 2009)

Meh, good for him.


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## Banhammer (Nov 22, 2009)

Ash Ketchum?


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## Terra Branford (Nov 22, 2009)

(I seriously hope I don't get flammed for this...)

It shouldn't matter, the kid should do the pledge. Its for America, and he refuses it? I'm not trying to bring in the race card here, but would he have felt the same if it were African Americans not getting equal rights? No, he wouldn't have.

I think the parents (if you saw the father's face on tv) put him up to it to get attention from the media, just like Balloon Boy's father.


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## darkangelcel (Nov 22, 2009)

Nice ^^
I thank this kid =)
I'm glad he is trying to do something for all my brothers and sisters in USA that are being discriminated.
Being gay is not something to laugh about... don't be freaking idiots... we don't decide to be born this way, life will be much better for many of us if we didn't have feelings for the same sex but we can't help who we are it's inside us and even if we pretend it'll still be inside us.
I wish straight people would think for a moment and realize how hard our live is... but is not our fault for being born that way because we can't help it... is your fault for not stopping discrimination, an issue that i assure CAN BE HELPED!

I support you little friend  and thanks again


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## Banhammer (Nov 22, 2009)

I think you're horribly wrong. To force  a single person to swear the pledge of freedom would destroy everything it ever meant for everyone.


It's possible he's completly soaked in parents influence but it's just as possible he's not.

So therefore, I repeat, you're wrong


PS: SHOOO, YAOI FANGIRL, SHOOO!


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## Terra Branford (Nov 22, 2009)

> Nice ^^
> I thank this kid =)
> I'm glad he is trying to do something for all my brothers and sisters in USA that are being discriminated.
> Being gay is not something to laugh about... don't be freaking idiots... we don't decide to be born this way, life will be much better for many of us if we didn't have feelings for the same sex but we can't help who we are it's inside us and even if we pretend it'll still be inside us.
> ...



Well, I certainly don't have a problem with gay people...but...well, its really hard to explain so I'm just gonna leave now


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## Adonis (Nov 22, 2009)

Emma Bradley said:


> (I seriously hope I don't get flammed for this...)
> 
> It shouldn't matter, the kid should do the pledge. Its for America, and he refuses it? I'm not trying to bring in the race card here, but would he have felt the same if it were African Americans not getting equal rights? No, he wouldn't have.
> 
> I think the parents (if you saw the father's face on tv) put him up to it to get attention from the media, just like Balloon Boy's father.



Do you not see how vacuous a statement, "It's for America" is? It's no less an empty gesture than yellow ribbons on your car. All the better if you can create a false dichotomy...

I also disapprove of your insinuation that the gay mafia has more influence on honky children than the black gestapo.


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## Terra Branford (Nov 22, 2009)

Adonis said:


> Do you not see how vacuous a statement, "It's for America" is? It's no less an empty gesture than yellow ribbons on your car. All the better if you can create a false dichotomy...
> 
> I also disapprove of your insinuation that the gay mafia has more influence on honky children than the black gestapo.



Oooh, that's not what I meant at all! Darn it, I knew I shouldn't come in here. I posted it all wrong, I'm sorry


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## Zabuzalives (Nov 22, 2009)

He will grow up a whiny liberal...just like his whiny liberal parents raised him.


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## superattackpea (Nov 22, 2009)

Emma Bradley said:


> (I seriously hope I don't get flammed for this...)
> 
> It shouldn't matter, the kid should do the pledge. Its for America, and he refuses it? I'm not trying to bring in the race card here, but would he have felt the same if it were African Americans not getting equal rights? No, he wouldn't have.
> 
> I think the parents (if you saw the father's face on tv) put him up to it to get attention from the media, just like Balloon Boy's father.



What the makes you think he wouldn't stand up for for black people instead of gay people? 

How the could anyone predict this would would receive media time at all let alone nation attention?

If his parents have installed principles like this at such a young age then they are doing one hell of a job.


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## Almaseti (Nov 22, 2009)

The fact that the pledge is "for America" is why the gesture is as strong as it is.  He's basically saying that he can't feel proud enough of his country to say the pledge of allegiance until there is real equality.  And really, if you remember our history, standing up for what you believe in is much more "American" than just repeating a bunch of words by rote because it's what you're supposed to do/what the people in charge want. 

Most kids don't even realize or care about the meaning behind the pledge. They kind of shrug it off as meaningless but this one thinks it's important enough to use to protest injustice. In a way he's really giving it a lot of respect.


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## ChocoKitty ♥ (Nov 22, 2009)

A lot of people may disagree with him, but at least he's _trying_..
It's better to stand for what you believe in even if you get shrugged off.


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## Pilaf (Nov 23, 2009)

Emma Bradley said:


> Well, I certainly don't have a problem with gay people...but...well, its really hard to explain so I'm just gonna leave now



Good..you do that.

How dare you speak against the first amendment. Don't you realize men and women have fought and died so he can refuse to say the shitty pledge?


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## ZeroBlack (Nov 23, 2009)

Wonder what this will do; time will tell.
In other news, the gay mafia strikes again!


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## Psycho (Nov 23, 2009)

this kid was clearly raised by the gay mafia

i don't get why anyone says the pledge of allegiance, what does it mean? "i love my country so much, that instead of learning to grow up and make it a better place, i'm gonna stand like an idiot for a few minutes and say some words that have no meaning"?

in all of the US' history, people who today are considered symbols of patriotism were people who hated the government, even the founding fathers were heretics that hated the government


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## Elias (Nov 24, 2009)

Zabuzalives said:


> He will grow up a whiny liberal...just like his whiny liberal parents raised him.



He might rebel and become a whiny conservative. I've seen it many times before.


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## sadated_peon (Nov 24, 2009)

This has been running through the liberal media outlets, and I couldn't care less. It just pageantry as far as I am concerned. 

The kids sounds smart enough to at least understand the situation, which is more than I can say for carrie prejean, but it the same BS.


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## Pilaf (Nov 24, 2009)

Zabuzalives said:


> He will grow up a whiny liberal...just like his whiny liberal parents raised him.



Because standing up for your civil liberties is somehow un-American.


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## Jaruka (Nov 24, 2009)

Hm, good for him, at least he knows what he's doing and is actively contributing to help society, something that many his age lack or see the need to do.

Still, it's only the Pledge of Allegiance.


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