# Who do you think are the most wanked characters in the Battledome?



## Transcendent Shinobi (May 3, 2014)

Here are mine.

Minato-Everyone always says omg he is fastest guy ever so that means he always wins....

Yeah I beg to differ. Speed isn't everything. Saying Minato is faster then Hashirama or always ranking his power at  Edo Nine tails chakra cloak mode for every single fight even though the OP didn't say that is just annoying. Also Minato said in the anime he never used Sage Mode for fighting because he wasn't good at it, so thats another factor people always forget.

Kakashi-kamui GG...........................

Some how Kakashi got a magical power up for the war arc making him have insanely more stamina and chakra. For example when he fought Obito and the jinchuriki with Gai...

Although not as bad as Minato wanking Kakashi ggers is still dumb.

Itachi......................................................

Do I really need to say anything? Yata Mirror GG. Yeah right as if he could hold up susanoo for hours on end...He was out of breath fighting Jiraiya in base after doing Amatarasu. To be fair he also did genjutsu earlier that day but it just goes to show even when he is healthy-healthier he is NOT as strong as everyone thinks. I am also guilty of wanking him but who's not?

Im sure you can all think of many more but these 3 are pretty much a given.


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## Kai (May 3, 2014)

This won't end well.

Itachi solos


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## Joakim3 (May 3, 2014)

Honestly..... People like Itachi, Minato, Kakashi and yes now even Gai are pretty well placed 9/10's the manga has kinda rammed it down are throats on where they should belong




If anything Tsunade and or Onoki is the most wanked atm.... imho


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## Trojan (May 3, 2014)

Hashirama

1- He wins because he's Hashirama.
2- X jutsu does not work because he is Hashirama.
3- It does not matter if he has counter to Y jutsu/character because he is Hashirama.

You can't possibly top that.


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## Kyu (May 3, 2014)

Tsunade and her grandpappy.


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## Legendary Itachi (May 3, 2014)

Inb4 lock.

That said, Itachi solos.


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## Cognitios (May 3, 2014)

inb4 lock
Itachi
Tsunde
Minato
Hashirama


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 3, 2014)

Lol OP minato being faster than hashirama is a fact. 

Anyway itachi and onoki are overrated. How could be so brainwashed to swallow the hype of a damn near featless mirror and believe onoki's jinton is this undodgeable, one shot kill when he use it ability is beyond me. I could name ten ways to deal with jinton easily.

I don't think hashirama is overrated he is pretty strong after all.


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## Tom Servo (May 3, 2014)

Teuchi.....fucker isn't _that_ strong.


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## Bonly (May 3, 2014)

Depends on the person. 

Someone like Niku or Grimmjowsensei wank Itachi, someone like Kakzekage94 or genii96 wank Gaara, someone like Hussain or SSM12 wank Naruto, someone like Lostself or Jad wank Gai, someone like FlammingRain or Godaime Tsunade wank Tsunade, someone like Raikiri wank Kakashi ect. You get the point, characters get wanked badly depending on the person.


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## Cognitios (May 3, 2014)

Who do I wank Bonly?


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## Bonly (May 3, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Who do I wank Bonly?



Can't say, you usually don't wank a certain character but if I had to guess I'd say Shika .


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2014)

I don't wank anybody Bonly!


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## Kazekage94 (May 3, 2014)

He always includes me in his posts, I must be so popular to him. (I feel special!)

Anyway it's Guy, and Itachi definitely!!! With the Kamui users behind them.


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## Cognitios (May 3, 2014)

The sad part is the only person I've ever said Shikamaru can actually beat in the battledome is Shino I think.


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## Legendary Itachi (May 3, 2014)

If you set the condition same as manga did, actually he can beat Hidan.


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## Cognitios (May 3, 2014)

Does that mean Shikamaru + Full knowledge + 48 hour prep = low kage level?
Gg motherfuckers


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## Vice (May 3, 2014)

Itachi and anyone remotely associated with Itachi who can be wanked to make him look better ala Deidara, Hebi Sasuke and Kisame.

Ironically anyone associated with him whose wank would put them above him ala Nagato and KCM Naruto are consistently downplayed.


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## Bonly (May 3, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> I don't wank anybody Bonly!



Maybe you're right and maybe rank isn't the right word, how about Overrate? 



Kazekage94 said:


> He always includes me in his posts, I must be so popular to him. (I feel special!)
> 
> Anyway it's Guy, and Itachi definitely!!! With the Kamui users behind them.



Of course, for the guy who makes lies up about me, revenge negged and gets butthurt enough to leave me a VM crying about getting negged once, I gotta make sure you feel the love 



Cognitios said:


> The sad part is the only person I've ever said Shikamaru can actually beat in the battledome is Shino I think.



Then you have shamed the lazy king


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## Kazekage94 (May 3, 2014)

Umm no no and no lol. Butthurt about what? Negs don't matter you just hate on Gaara. What lies? Are we really spreading rumors on a Naruto website like a 16 year old girl?


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## Aduro (May 3, 2014)

I'd say Healthy Kimimaro, he got some hype but he his feats are well below guys like Suigetsu even, and I've seen people say he'll speedblitz the Sanin when he could barely catch Lee who was getting over surgery at the time.


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## Bonly (May 3, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Umm no no and no lol. Butthurt about what? Negs don't matter you just hate on Gaara. What lies? Are we really spreading rumors on a Naruto website like a 16 year old girl?



>Disabled rep after negged a few months ago
>Says he doesn't care
>Asks what lies
>Makes up the lie that I hate Gaara even after you've been told he's  

Lul


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## Turrin (May 3, 2014)

Deidara, Itachi, Ei, and Kakashi; in that order. 

Deidara people outright make up accomplishments for him that he doesn't even have, that's why he edges out Itachi, who is overrated to the extent that people ignore manga cannon statements to elevate his level. The other two are simply overrated extensively given their actual performances in the manga.


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## Cognitios (May 3, 2014)

> Then you have shamed the lazy king


The only other fight I've discussed with him is 6th Gate Lee.
Lee's just a shitty match up for Shikamaru with no knowledge or prep and starting at a short distance (30 Meters)


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2014)

Kai said:


> This won't end well.
> 
> Itachi solos



Clearly you have miraculously forgotten about 100% Omnislug.


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## Kazekage94 (May 3, 2014)

Your second statement is incorrect
I am so glad that I am the highlight in your life
Actions speak louder than words.
Obviously it's disabled because of Itachi wankers so yea anything else bud? Try your hardest.


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## Vice (May 3, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Kakashi



Uh, no.

When people still hold beginning of part 2 feats against you, you're not overrated, you're underrated.


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## Cognitios (May 3, 2014)

Forgot about healthy Kimi, that thread of him vs Raikagenaut...


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## Bonly (May 3, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> The only other fight I've discussed with him is 6th Gate Lee.
> Lee's just a shitty match up for Shikamaru with no knowledge or prep and starting at a short distance (30 Meters)



And shame on you, you should put him in more matches perhaps in matches on Itachi's team  



Kazekage94 said:


> Your second statement is incorrect
> I am so glad that I am the highlight in your life
> Actions speak louder than words.
> Obviously it's disabled because of Itachi wankers so yea anything else bud? Try your hardest.



No problem babe, I'll be thinking about you tonight as well


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## Dominus (May 3, 2014)

From the ones that haven't been mentioned, I think that Mū is overrated at times.


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## Jagger (May 3, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Hashirama
> 
> 1- He wins because he's Hashirama.
> 2- X jutsu does not work because he is Hashirama.
> ...


Yes, you can. I've seen horrible Sasuke wankers as well Itachi's and many others. You wouldn't even believe the likes of Hidan gets wanked as well?

Why? Because every character can get overrated and you wouldn't reach a final and decisive veredict from this thread.


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## Cognitios (May 3, 2014)

Can't believe no one put Prime Hiruzen


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## Orochibuto (May 3, 2014)

This is the firsy thread I must say that indeed Itachi solos; it is true characters like Hashirama are wanked horribly and he is possibly second after Itachi; some characters (I dont remember if Hashirama is one of them) are wanked to the point his hardcore fanboys claim he could beat Rikudou Sennin; that is the highest wank I have within the ballpark of Narutoverse.

But Itachi wank is of cosmic proportions; far above Narutoverse ballpark; I have seen people claim in what seemed to be a serious post; that Itachi could beat characters that shit on Kaguya.

It goes so far it exceeds NF and is a multi forum phenomena; Itachi wank even appears on google automatic search. It is basically a cult.

Itachi wins this thread hands down; he is multiverses above in wank over the second place which is Hashirama.

If I have to put numbers in wank Hashirama is on the billions; Itachi is Graham Number.


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## Cognitios (May 3, 2014)

^ Idk I'd put Minato as second and Hashirama as third.
There are people on this forum that think Base Minato can Draw/Beat BSM Naruto/EMS Madara/SM Hashirama


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## Legendary Itachi (May 3, 2014)

Truth is I hear more ppl claim that fodder Teuchi and Mizuki can solo the Verse. 



Cognitios said:


> Can't believe no one put Prime Hiruzen



What are you talking, Prime Hiruzen as the strongest Hokage is backuped by irrefutable  but outdatted  DB and canon statements.


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## Cheeky Nayrudo (May 3, 2014)

Haven't been here for longer than a week so I dunno but Gai seems a bit overrated by some.


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## Veracity (May 3, 2014)

Kimmi as of now .


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## Trojan (May 3, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Yes, you can. I've seen horrible Sasuke wankers as well Itachi's and many others. You wouldn't even believe the likes of Hidan gets wanked as well?
> 
> Why? Because every character can get overrated and you wouldn't reach a final and decisive veredict from this thread.



they get wnaked as well, but in most cases I see arguments are being made for them. In Hashi's case there is no argument most of the time, he just wins because he is Hashirama.  

In addition to that, most of itachi's fans appear to know that they are trolling, and doing it for fun, or piss other people off apparently. But, the wank in
Hashi's case is real. lol 



Orochibuto said:


> This is the firsy thread I must say that indeed Itachi solos; it is true characters like Hashirama are wanked horribly and he is possibly second after Itachi; some characters (I dont remember if Hashirama is one of them) are wanked to the point his hardcore fanboys claim he could beat Rikudou Sennin; that is the highest wank I have within the ballpark of Narutoverse.
> 
> But Itachi wank is of cosmic proportions; far above Narutoverse ballpark; I have seen people claim in what seemed to be a serious post; that Itachi could beat characters that shit on Kaguya.
> 
> ...



I honestly don't think itachi can top Hashirama. I have seen people claim

1- Hashirama can solo the entire war by himself (when he got killed in the first, and has been useless in the 4th)/ 

2- He defeats JJ obito (even though he stated that mindless obito is stronger than he is)
3- He defeats all Kages in history put  together without much of a problem. 
4- He is as strong as Hagoromo. lol
5- he's stronger than 8th gate Gai.
6- He defeats Naruto and Sasuke together. lol
7- He defeats all of the ET together when he does not even have sealing jutsu
8- He counter Kamui, because he is Hashirama. lol

...etc


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## Jagger (May 3, 2014)

Orochibuto said:


> This is the firsy thread I must say that indeed Itachi solos; it is true characters like Hashirama are wanked horribly and he is possibly second after Itachi; some characters (I dont remember if Hashirama is one of them) are wanked to the point his hardcore fanboys claim he could beat Rikudou Sennin; that is the highest wank I have within the ballpark of Narutoverse.
> 
> But Itachi wank is of cosmic proportions; far above Narutoverse ballpark; I have seen people claim in what seemed to be a serious post; that Itachi could beat characters that shit on Kaguya.
> 
> ...


I don't really believe those that say Itachi is capable of defeating much stronger enemies from other universe should be taken seriously.

Either they're completely ignorant to the power-level of said universe or they're just mere trolls trying to provoke agressive responses. A "bait".


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 3, 2014)

I don't even think Itachi and Minato are really wanked much in the BD anymore. More often than not they're placed pretty accurately. 

Gai is a character who has surged when it comes to wanking in the BD.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Depends on the person.
> 
> Someone like Niku or Grimmjowsensei wank Itachi, someone like Kakzekage94 or genii96 wank Gaara, someone like Hussain or SSM12 wank Naruto, someone like Lostself or Jad wank Gai, someone like FlammingRain or Godaime Tsunade wank Tsunade, someone like Raikiri wank Kakashi ect. You get the point, characters get wanked badly depending on the person.



Bonly you're just a lil butthurt figet. 






























only joking. But you need to get new jokes, Godsuyu has had it's day, I need something new. The lols won't make themselves, figet ​​


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## Jagger (May 3, 2014)

I'd wank Nagato.

But who would wank the character that got converted in such terrible fashion?


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## StickaStick (May 3, 2014)

Itachi
Minato
Hashirama
Gai
Current Naruto and Sasuke

note that wank =/= overrate. In some cases the wank can be completely justified.


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## Legendary Itachi (May 3, 2014)

I should mention KCM Naruto, just because of "weakened 7% Naruto" and those severely overrated 13 clones GG created by Kishi's worst inconsistent writing forever......


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## ShinobisWill (May 3, 2014)

Kakashi having more chakra and stamina in the war arc doesn't magically make him wanked. He has those feats and there's nothing butthurt people can do about it. Though Kamui gg is slightly wanked (in the sense of thinking it could beat Juubidara/Madara for example), even if it is very powerful and also underestimated by some.

Tsunade is wanked, Itachi is a little wanked (the solo jokes have died down a bit besides some select users), Minato base is a little wanked, Gai *below *7 gates is a little wanked though 7-8 gates are underestimated, which evens it out a little.

Katsuyu is fucking godly wanked and should die in a sea of salt.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2014)

Katsuyu is not godly wanked, people played that up way more than it deserved to be.​​


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 3, 2014)

SM Naruto
Minato
Kakashi

These 3.


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## Mithos (May 3, 2014)

Gai, Ei, Kakashi and Minato are the most overrated, in no particular order.


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## Rocky (May 3, 2014)

Imo, LI was correct when he said that "wanking" is different from overestimation. Wanked characters are usually overrated too, but not always, because "wank" can actually be accurately support in cases.

Fans of any given character tend to wank that character. Therefore the characters with the largest fan-bases are the most wanked. The most overrated characters, in my opinion, are the Sannin as a collective unit. Though since we haven't ever seen them fight together, the overestimation could be justified. You can't tell for certain either way.


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## Trojan (May 3, 2014)

The sannin as a team is overrated? 
in every thread I see them they always lose. lol

against the like of itachi, pain, nagato, kabuto, hashirama, base Minato, probably SM Naruto
B, the edo kage, madara, MS obito....etc

they lose against all. lol


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## Batman4Life (May 3, 2014)

Itachi
Gai
Kabuto
Minato

In that order


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## Rocky (May 3, 2014)

Hussain said:


> The sannin as a team is overrated?
> in every thread I see them they always lose. lol
> 
> against the like of itachi, pain, nagato, kabuto, hashirama, base Minato, probably SM Naruto
> ...



According to their haters. Nikushimi, for example, hates Orochimaru with a burning passion, which leads him to conclusions such as Ē soloing all three.

By the way, Hashirama & Madara slaughter the Sannin. The Four Edo Kage & Nagato beat them, as does Obito if he's allowed his Kamui feats from the war. Kabuto & Pain have a shot depending on the stipulations. 

B can beat them if he goes full bijū right away. Even a _group_ of Kage-Tiers is going to have trouble dealing with Mountain-Buster spam.

Itachi & Minato are overrated in their own right by many, so it's understandable that people would make such claims; they have large fan-bases too, ya know. I don't know if I've seen anyone claim SM Naruto could do it. Maybe one, but he's probably a hater.


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## Trojan (May 3, 2014)

Although I disagree with you in term of the edo kages, Nagato...etc
but I added some people who can indeed solo them for dramatic effect.:ignoramus


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## Rocky (May 3, 2014)

Nagato came awfully close to no diffing Naruto & B, who could each give the entire Sannin unit trouble. Chibaku Tensei ends that fight.

The 4 Kage win too. Mizukage & Mū is a broken combination. Like super broken. They defeat both Orochimaru & Tsunade while Sandaime Raikage & Yondaime Kazekage gang up and murder Jiraiya.


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## Cord (May 3, 2014)

This isn't a Bottledome thread. :ignoramus


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## Trojan (May 3, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Nagato came awfully close to no diffing Naruto & B, who could each give the entire Sannin unit trouble. Chibaku Tensei ends that fight.
> 
> The 4 Kage win too. Mizukage & Mū is a broken combination. Like super broken. They defeat both Orochimaru & Tsunade while Sandaime Raikage & Yondaime Kazekage gang up and murder Jiraiya.



I meant separated. U_U 
also Frog Song. GG


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## Complete_Ownage (May 3, 2014)

Itachi
Minato
Kakashi
Raikage
Onoki


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## RedChidori (May 3, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> inb4 lock
> Itachi
> Tsunde
> Minato
> Hashirama



This, definitely this .


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## Krippy (May 3, 2014)

Sannin
Minato
KCM Naruto
Kakashi
Gai

All horribly overrated for God knows why.


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## ARGUS (May 3, 2014)

Minato - severely overrated as ppl seem to jus claim speed blitz GG 

Jiraiya - he is no way near top tiers and can barely compete with high tiers as the whole Frog Song GG and base jiraiya lol zzz are getting annoying

Current sasuke - after seeing claims that he can beat current Judara and juubito together singlehandedly I would say that he is getting wanked way too much 

All in all itachi solos NV neg diff with no eyes.. Limbs,, arms legs brain etc,. His soloness alone is enough to stomp them GG


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## Kai (May 3, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Current sasuke - after seeing claims that he can beat current Judara and juubito together singlehandedly I would say that he is getting wanked way too much


This was one of the worst, seriously debated threads I've witnessed in all my years in the battledome.

I just pretend people were high off their shit that day, and that's perfectly fine.


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## Trojan (May 3, 2014)

I think in addition to Hashirama, the most overrated character of all time,

Gai is getting overrated as well. Some people think his feats with the 8th gate can be transferred to the 7th or 6th gate. 

Tobirama. He lost to even kin & gin, and I see some people claim that he's superior to X character because he's Hashi's brother. -__-

itachi, obviously, since we already know that he is even below Jiraiya. 

Deidara. lol, 
Torune apparently he solos Minato as well because of his bugs. lol 

KCM Naruto, he solos several top tiers with clones. O_o 
Rinnegan/ MS obito, when his fans think he can take on more than 1 kage-level opponent. 
madara, some times as well, it really depends.
SM Kabuto, I sill can't see this guy the way some people think he is honestly, he's a punch of fodders to me. O_o

I dunno who I missed as well, maybe Minato?
but I see people think he loses to
Sasori, Deidara, Tsunade, Kakuzu, Kisame, Torune, 3rd raikage, Mu, 2nd Mizukage, A, B, Kin, Kabuto, itachi, who else? Yeah, Gaara, 3rd Kazekage, MS obito, SM Naruto, MS Sasuke, Tobirama, pain, Nagato....etc 

I feel he's underrated more than overrated, but that just me.


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## Bonly (May 3, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Bonly you're just a lil butthurt figet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ill fite u m8 

time is what I need, all the great things take time


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## RBL (May 3, 2014)

i agree with Broly.

it does really depends on the person, i wank gai a lot, and i only wank rock lee when it gets compare to the other rookies.

but i think that overall:

1.- tsunade hands down.


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## Jagger (May 3, 2014)

Come on, I'm pretty sure there was a phase where Tsunade was greatly underrated.

I think it was before she showed her jutsu and survived being ripped in half.


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## Ashi (May 3, 2014)

Everybody in the akatsuki


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## Trojan (May 3, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Come on, I'm pretty sure there was a phase where Tsunade was greatly underrated.
> 
> I think it was before she showed her jutsu and survived being ripped in half.



She is still really underrated, If I'm to create a thread about her Vs blind itachi with his hands tied up
behind his back, she will still probably lose. lol


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## Lurko (May 3, 2014)

8 gated Gai imo.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 3, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Deidara, Itachi, Ei, and Kakashi; in that order.
> 
> Deidara people outright make up accomplishments for him that he doesn't even have, that's why he edges out Itachi, who is overrated to the extent that people ignore manga cannon statements to elevate his level. The other two are simply overrated extensively given their actual performances in the manga.



Deidara and Ei aren't overrated. Lol

If anything, Ei is the one that's underrated, considering Sai is able to defeat him by feats. 
Isn't that right?


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## trance (May 3, 2014)

Tsunade. Fans like to claim she can survive decapitation and is as fast or faster than Ei.


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## Ersa (May 4, 2014)

Gaara and Edo Kages are wanked as fuck. It's downright pathetic especially with people saying Muu and Sandaime are borderline top tier despite the fact they got offed by clones. Or that Muu was above the likes of Nagato


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## Jagger (May 4, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Tsunade. Fans like to claim she can survive decapitation and is as fast or faster than Ei.


I don't think anyone that really believes she can survive without a head long enough to reattach it should be taken seriously into any kind of debate.


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## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

I don't think anyone who believes that they can just brush off someone's opinion simply because they listen to the canon description of a technique as opposed to subscribing to a currently unsupported board myth about its limitations should be taken seriously into any kind of debate.


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## trance (May 4, 2014)

Jagger said:


> I don't think anyone that really believes she can survive without a head long enough to reattach it should be taken seriously into any kind of debate.



Someone says it .


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## Veracity (May 4, 2014)

I've never ever saw someone claim Tsunade was faster then Ay...


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## Jad (May 4, 2014)

Well, a certain character being able to live through just about anything is getting a bit tiring to see over and over again. But, I have to learn to separate the butter from the bread, because usually it's a tight group of members that keep bringing them up those same points. Fortunately for them, they are also a tight nit of members that make the loudest noise on the forum in those threads. Generally posting pages of arguments and boring others 

I saw the Ei _vs._ Gai thread, things are looking up for him, still little underrated I believe without the 8th Gate. I think people generally underrate his lower abilities because he can go into a higher state, and that's what they focus on. Generally forgetting his other feats. 8th Gate, you can't really overrate that, Kishi did that already.

Kakashi is generally completely underrated without his Kamui. People saying he is Chuunin level or what not, even on youtube. Minato is overrated because people think he knows a move ahead of time it happens. Jiraiya is overrated because people believe he will use his toads as a meatshield for an attack he know will hurt them considerably, when generally he seems them as friends. Why would he put them in danger... You got a bunch of other characters where one aspect is generally overrated, whether it be speed, taijutsu, or a general move members keep reiterating for a certain character that makes them overrated. However, at the end of the day, Genjutsu is a fickle move that people like to overrate.​


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## trance (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> I've never ever saw someone claim Tsunade was faster then Ay...



You've claimed she was as fast as Ei.


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## Veracity (May 4, 2014)

Jad I know damn well you are not trying to talk about wanking a character when you claim Gai is physically stronger then Juubito who could outmuscle sage gates.

I've also seen you claim that Gai practically has an ever flowing aura of energy that pushes shit away in the gates mode lol.

StarKiller I've claimed she's faster then base Ay, and as fast as V1 ay. Mind you, V1 Ay is as fast as Darui...


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## trance (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> and as fast as V1 ay



No. She's not.


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## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

Tsunade isn't faster than Ay in any mode.



Jad said:


> Jiraiya is overrated because people believe he will use his toads as a meatshield for an attack he know will hurt them considerably, when generally he seems them as friends. Why would he put them in danger...​



A toad can be hurt because it can be de summoned (and probably heal up later, mind you) and replaced, but Jiraiya getting hurt carries much heavier consequences with it. That's why Jiraiya had no problems with letting Gamaken get his but kicked up and down the Hidden Rain village while he was focusing on Sage Mode, only ever complaining about the rattling disrupting him, and basically just went "oh well, I don't need you anymore, bye" once he got knocked down the final time.

So giant toad gets considerably hurt or Jiraiya himself gets considerably hurt while it's Jiraiya's choice, and both his teammates have used their summons as meat shields before. 

I think that toad is in trouble.


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## Jad (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Jad I know damn well you are not trying to talk about wanking a character when you claim Gai is physically stronger then Juubito who could outmuscle sage gates.



Can you quote me on that



> I've also seen you claim that Gai practically has an ever flowing aura of energy that pushes shit away in the gates mode lol.



Opening the 6th Gate can push as much water/density as he did in Chapter 258. Opening the 7th Gate pushes back as much water/density as he did in Chapter 506. Generally being in the 7th Gate will also push back other foriegn objects as well. Gai was in the 7th Gate underwater against Kisame, talking with him/monologue and the water wasn't closing in. It's not like I'm trying to say he can push back _Mountain Sandwhich_. Reference where I used an argument where Gai pushing stuff of his body was overrating him.​


FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade isn't faster than Ay in any mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, but that was generally an equal trade of blows. A Giant vs. a Giant. You expect that from a battle toad. However, is it in Jiraiya's nature to use a friend to block say an explosion, before he even has time to say "Do this and that". Seems like a bitch move form Jiraiya to save himself.


----------



## Rocky (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Jad I know damn well you are not trying to talk about wanking a character when you claim Gai is physically stronger then Juubito who could outmuscle sage gates.



Get back to him when Jūbito kicks away half of Jūbidara.



> I've also seen you claim that Gai practically has an ever flowing aura of energy that pushes shit away in the gates mode lol.



Which is true.



> I've claimed she's faster then base Ay, and as fast as V1 ay. Mind you, V1 Ay is as fast as Darui...



lol

Tsunade doesn't approach any form of Ē in speed, and Darui probably doesn't either.


----------



## Veracity (May 4, 2014)

Jad said:


> Can you quote me on that
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here is the thread that you claim that because Gai pushed juubidara back( lol or was he merely dodging) that this must mean he is atleast as strong as Juubito, who in turn destroyed god gates

. 

Yes I know that Gais aura pushed water away at activation, but I swore awhile back that you claimed this aura always pushed things back. But it's gonna take ages to find, so id rather not.


----------



## Jad (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Here is the thread that you claim that because Gai pushed juubidara back( lol or was he merely dodging) that this must mean he is atleast as strong as Juubito, who in turn destroyed god gates
> 
> .
> 
> Yes I know that Gais aura pushed water away at activation, but I swore awhile back that you claimed this aura always pushed things back. But it's gonna take ages to find, so id rather not.



It's pretty hard to claim Juubidara was dodging when there are impact illustrations. So what was it then?



Likes boss said:


> Yes I know that Gais aura pushed water away at activation, but I swore awhile back that you claimed this aura always pushed things back. But it's gonna take ages to find, so id rather not.



Then don't try to use that against me if you can't even show me where I state Gai "pushes things away".....I can't read your mind.


----------



## Veracity (May 4, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Get back to him when Jūbito kicks away half of Jūbidara.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rocky I feel like you live and breath to debate with me for no reason possible. You also misinterpret like 90% of the things i say.

Anyway, I was referring to 7th gate Gais casual punches.

I also was talking about jad thinking that Gais aura was constantly pushing things away.

I'm not debating base Ay and his 0 speed feats, as well as me proving evidence that Tsuande is as fast as V1 Ay. It's just not worth my time. 

And how is Darui not as fast as V1 Ay despite showing the exact same speed.?


----------



## Lord Aizen (May 4, 2014)

Itachi he's multiverse wanked on YouTube people think he could fight current madara
Minato right after people think he's god
Guy because of 8 gate 
Kakashi people think kamui is always GG no matter what


----------



## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

Yeah...the gates have a knock back effect upon their activation, but it isn't too long after the initial unlocking that it fades. Likes boss is right, it isn't ever flowing.



Jad said:


> Yeah, but that was generally an equal trade of blows. A Giant vs. a Giant. You expect that from a battle toad. However, is it in Jiraiya's nature to use a friend to block say an explosion, before he even has time to say "Do this and that". Seems like a bitch move form Jiraiya to save himself.



I don't see how that detracts from him expressing no concern over Gamaken being smacked around- he was still more concerned with his own balance than he was Gamaken's health. He also didn't seem to be bothered summoning Gama in front of a sword already in motion where I'm pretty sure he didn't have time to say "put your hands up to guard".

I know that I'd rather my friend get knocked out than let myself be injured even more grievously, especially when said friend can be de-summoned and treated elsewhere. So, I actually _would_ expect Jiraiya to pull a move like that and just de-summon the toad while apologizing or something where do you think Bunta got that scar.

It may sound like it's kind of cruel, but one person's potential injuries might not matter as much as another's, and Jiraiya probably understands that better than any of us given his status as a war veteran.


----------



## Rocky (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Rocky I feel like you live and breath to debate with me for no reason possible. You also misinterpret like 90% of the things i say.



Yes, of course. My sole reason for existing is to debate with you, oh Likes boss.



> Anyway, I was referring to 7th gate Gais casual punches.



Nevermind then. Sorry.



> I also was talking about jad thinking that Gais aura was constantly pushing things away.



It does upon activation. 



> I'm not debating base Ay and his 0 speed feats, as well as me proving evidence that Tsuande is as fast as V1 Ay. It's just not worth my time.



There _is_ no evidence that Tsunade is as fast as v1 Ē.



> And how is Darui not as fast as V1 Ay despite showing the exact same speed.?



Two characters attacking in concert ≠ equivalent speed.  

Wait, nevermind. Lee's Kunai throwing speed is like toats faster than Red Gai. 

Any level of basic reading comprehension should tell you that Darui is slower than Raiton no Yori Ē. I know it's a cliche, but it's true; please read between the lines.


----------



## Jad (May 4, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> Yeah...the gates have a knock back effect upon their activation, but it isn't too long after the initial unlocking that it fades. Likes boss is right, it isn't ever flowing.



Chapter 506, from the moment Gai activated 7th Gate, to the point he fires it, there was a large dialogue and monologue session going on. However, the Gates aura still pushed back the water, even Kisame commented on it. So yes, Gai can maintain it seems. Perhaps not for long, but doesn't mean he can't maintain it for extended periods of time. Unless you want to explain to me why the water wasn't crashing on him after he activated 7th Gate.



> I don't see how that detracts from him expressing no concern over Gamaken being smacked around- he was still more concerned with his own balance than he was Gamaken's health. He also didn't seem to be bothered summoning Gama in front of a sword already in motion where I'm pretty sure he didn't have time to say "put your hands up to guard".
> 
> I know that I'd rather my friend get knocked out than let myself be injured even more grievously, especially when said friend can be de-summoned and treated elsewhere. So, I actually _would_ expect Jiraiya to pull a move like that and just de-summon the toad while apologizing or something where do you think Bunta got that scar.
> 
> It may sound like it's kind of cruel, but one person's potential injuries might not matter as much as another's, and Jiraiya probably understands that better than any of us given his status as a war veteran.



First of all, his not going to throw his friend in the fire on a move he has know idea about. A move, not an enemy Summon where he believes his friend can hold his own and doesn't have to worry as much about his safety. I'm talking about one move being activated. I believe there is a stark difference. If the move has potential to kill or cause serious irriverisable damage, or a move looks dangerous, I doubt his gonna sacrifice his friend rather himself.


----------



## Veracity (May 4, 2014)

Jad said:


> It's pretty hard to claim Juubidara was dodging when there are impact illustrations. So what was it then?
> 
> 
> 
> Then don't try to use that against me if you can't even show me where I state Gai "pushes things away".....I can't read your mind.



Gai hit him twice I guess.... That still didn't mean anything at all in any sense period. Just because Madara blocked and dodged his punches and showed virtually no injury at all doesn't automatically mean that he is magically as strong as Obito.

Can you tell me how you came up with that claim ? 

And fine I guess I'll try to look for it.


----------



## Jad (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Gai hit him twice I guess.... That still didn't mean anything at all in any sense period. Just because Madara blocked and dodged his punches and showed virtually no injury at all doesn't automatically mean that he is magically as strong as Obito.



Never said Madara was receiving any injuries. Also, why assume Madara dodged all of Gai's attacks? We saw two panels of Gai attack, both attacks had impact marks. Finally, Gai had the strength to push Madara back. Had Madara been overly more powerful strength wise then Gai, he'd of stopped on the first '_block_' and treated Gai like trash. Just as his Character has done consecutively to others. Why assume Madara was moving back for no apparent reason? Why would he move back? Do you have a concrete answer why he moved back? Was he threatened by Gai? Did he believe Gai's attacks could hurt him? Did he just move back for the _lols_?

A fighter moves back if he is threatened of getting hurt, or he is being forced back [which make sense based on the IMPACT illustrations]. Look at Madara's body in that panel Gai is performing his Taijutsu combo. His body is arched and bent, he isn't taking Gai's attacks lightly by standing straight and simply parrying his attacks with ease. At least give me a reason why Madara was moving back...

You obviously won't let it go, I'm wasting my time.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> * and as fast as V1 ay. Mind you, V1 Ay is as fast as Darui...*



Just lel...


----------



## Veracity (May 4, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Yes, of course. My sole reason for existing is to debate with you, oh Likes boss.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You seem to quote me for everything recently. For things that don't even need to be quoted at all. You simply just breezed past everything said in this thread and directly quoted me. You've quoted me like every day recently.


There is evidence. But I don't feel like providing it . I'll just concede.

They weren't even running in sync or anything, they dead ass appeared at the same time, and moved at the same time. There is no way you can interpret him as slower.

And I'm not reading through the lines with how ridiculously out of line Kishi has made this manga. 7th gate Gai is faster then Ay now. Implication doesn't matter. Anymore.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

Jad said:


> So yes, Gai can maintain it seems. Perhaps not for long



Hold it right there.

That's the entire reason it isn't "ever flowing", which is what I was saying.

It's not like I denied it was there _at all_.



> First of all, his not going to throw his friend in the fire on a move he has know idea about. A move, not an enemy Summon where he believes his friend can hold his own and doesn't have to worry as much about his safety. I'm talking about one move being activated. I believe there is a stark difference. If the move has potential to kill or cause serious irriverisable damage, or a move looks dangerous, I doubt his gonna sacrifice his friend rather himself.



I'm not sure you actually see what I'm trying to get at here. When Jiraiya started complaining about Gamaken rocking the boat it was already clear that his friend was in over his head/in danger, and after that he was seen getting slammed out of the sky and into the ground floor of a building's interior but that apparently didn't cause Jiraiya to so much as bat an eye. Instead he just _landed on top of him as he kept on observing Nagato's behavior_.

If, for example, a flurry of fireballs or a giant buddha tiger of a thousand suns or whatever that thing is comes flying his way a fantastical several hundred meter creature is going to be more likely to survive it than Jiraiya himself were he to simply take the attack, and I hope we're all educated enough to realize that Jiraiya himself is a greater asset than any toad, meaning that his own death would be far more costly than a toad getting injured in the end. Value is everything in things like this, and different people have different worths.

Jiraiya simply sacrificing himself like that shouldn't be expected imo.


----------



## Rocky (May 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> You seem to quote me for everything recently. For things that don't even need to be quoted at all. You simply just breezed past everything said in this thread and directly quoted me. You've quoted me like every day recently.



So, are you like complaining or something...



> They weren't even running in sync or anything, they dead ass appeared at the same time, and moved at the same time. There is no way you can interpret him as slower.



Characters that differ in speed attack/react in concert all the time in the Manga, usually done for dramatic effect. KCM Minato & Kakashi are not equivalent in reflexes, for example. Don't look too far into it. 

If you want a logical explanation, Ē slowed down to coordinate his attack with Darui. Suigetsu was able to react and _jump in fron_t, despite the fact that CS2 Monster Jūgo could barley manage a simple guard in a later clash. It's a severe outlier and low end feat.



> And I'm not reading through the lines with how ridiculously out of line Kishi has made this manga. 7th gate Gai is faster then Ay now. Implication doesn't matter. Anymore.



7th Gate Gai being faster than Ē isn't that crazy. It just means that Ē wasn't taking Gai into account when he hyped himself. Hell, the Raikage probably didn't even know that Gai could _use_ Hachimon Tonkō: Kyōmon...or any of the gates.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

I don't know if Ay really had to slow down for that attack, because we really don't know where everyone was in relation to each other since they all came in from off-panel (iirc) and Suigetsu only managed to jump in front after Ay stopped in front of Sasuke and reared back before actually executing the strike.


----------



## Trojan (May 4, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> I don't know if Ay really had to slow down for that attack, because we really don't know where everyone was in relation to each other since they all came in from off-panel (iirc).



I always try to explain to him that when things are off-panel, they are basically treated differently, but that never worked though. ~~


----------



## Rocky (May 4, 2014)

They had all been standing next to each other when C cast the illusion.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

Rocky said:


> They had all been standing next to each other *when C cast the illusion.*



Herein lies the problem, because we don't see them again until after the illusion is seen through.

For all we know Darui began moving before Ay did while the illusion was in effect and Ay just caught up with him due to his superior speed. There isn't exactly anything that would have prevented such in the meantime.


----------



## LeBoyka (May 4, 2014)

Aside from the obvious ones (Madara and Hashirama; they make sense), I would say Minato (For a good reason, but sometimes ppl think he's on Madara's level, which is cute.), Itachi, Kakashi (Kamui), and Gai (Cus Gai will always go 8-gates and win.).


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 4, 2014)

Rocky said:


> lol
> 
> Tsunade doesn't approach any form of Ē in speed, and Darui probably doesn't either.



I think she's in the same tier of speed as base Ei, given that she attacked in synchronisation with him. She also managed to jump in front of and repel all five of Madara's katon before Ei could think to do anything, if that means anything. 

Also, a shrouded Ei had confidence that Tsunade could assist him in his assault against Naruto and Bee, and likewise Tsunade had confidence that she could effectively fight against him. 

I think their speed is about the same. As far as feats go, Tsunade seems a bit faster than base Ei.​​


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (May 4, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> this...............
> like  i  said,,
> itachi solos NV GG,, neg diff,, with no eyes, no brain, no limbs, no arms,,, nothing,,
> all he needs is his solo swag and its GG,,,



Words of wisdom right there


----------



## LostSelf (May 4, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Depends on the person.
> 
> Someone like Niku or Grimmjowsensei wank Itachi, someone like Kakzekage94 or genii96 wank Gaara, someone like Hussain or SSM12 wank Naruto, *someone like Lostself or Jad wank Gai,* someone like FlammingRain or Godaime Tsunade wank Tsunade, someone like Raikiri wank Kakashi ect. You get the point, characters get wanked badly depending on the person.



I am proud of it .

Gai beats everybody, because in the eight gate he is above Hashirama, and Hashirama is Hashirama.


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## Turrin (May 4, 2014)

People need to realize that in this manga speed is fluid rather than static, and is more accurately measured by a range instead of an integer. This is due to the fact that even outside of specialized techniques like Raiton no Yoroi, specialize abilities like Sharingan there are more universal abilities/jutsu that enhance speed, and Shunshin which is ill defined in and off itself; something that gets completely ignored in the NBD these days is that Kishi clearly demonstrated that speed can be greatly enhanced by channeling chakra to certain appendages. We saw Sasuke utilize such an ability against Zabuza and Haku, allowing him to match Haku who has much faster reflexes/movement speed (4 vs 3). Than later we see Sasuke being able to recreate Lee's unweight speed, most likely through the same method of channeling chakra to ones appendages; or if it was not that, than there is yet a third ill defined method of increasing ones speed through the consumption of chakra/stamina. Additionally since this is a genin level skill, probably most characters in the manga have mastery of this skill.

The problem is that the skill itself is ill defined. How does it increase speed exactly. Is the speed increase relative to the amount of chakra channelled, the quality of chakra channeled or the amount of chakra control exercised. We have no way to measure whose going to be better at this skill than others and since Kishi has stopped bothering to show when this skill is exercised we have no way to know how frequently someone utilizes this skill. 

So to apply this to the discussion. Suigetsu being able to block R1 Ei is potentially because he exercised this ability while Ei did not. Later when R1 Ei was overwhelming Juugo, ether Juugo in his berserk form was not exercising this skill or R1 Ei began exercising it himself. Same thing with Darui keeping up with R1 Ei, he probably exercised this skill to keep pace with R1 Ei in that instance. 

Ultimately this means Ei has a massive range for his speed, as his speed can fluctuate from; R2 + Shunshin + This skill to simply his Base physical movement/reflex speed. So someone like a Tsunade could probably out perform Ei in speed, if Ei is at his lowest range "Base", while Tsunade is utilizing channel chakra to appendages skill &/or Shunshin, as both are ill defined enough where they could potentially raise Tsunade to 5 Tier in speed, for some unknown reason. 

This is why the myth that Ei can evade everything is so unrealistic, as at his lowest range he can be hit by plenty of things and he does not have his highest range activated at all times, ether due to IC arrogance or simply the fact that even he would run out of stamina too quickly if he was constantly stacking all 3 speed buffs at their highest level he has access to.


----------



## Csdabest (May 4, 2014)

The raikages. Fast strong and durable with a linear taijutsu style and people think they can just blitzed characters that even have scaled speed feats on par with them


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## tkpirate (May 4, 2014)

well,what i have seen,it seems almost every character gets wanked here.


----------



## Cognitios (May 4, 2014)

> well,what i have seen,it seems almost every character gets wanked here.


Name one mei/mifune/shino/hinata/anko/ibiki/pakura/toroi/magnetsu/ wanker. just one. I dare ya


----------



## Transcendent Shinobi (May 4, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> *The raikages*. Fast strong and durable with a linear taijutsu style and people think they can just blitzed characters that even have scaled speed feats on par with them



^This. I made a thread a few weeks ago about what if the kages fought in CQ at the summit. 90% of all the people said the raikage just kills everyone...


----------



## Cognitios (May 4, 2014)

> ^This. I made a thread a few weeks ago about what if the kages fought in CQ at the summit. 90% of all the people said the raikage just kills everyone...


In all fairness all the kage were 5 meters apart.
The Raikage's raiton shroud goes up in a second, faster than any other opponent's defense/offense there (cept maybe gaara). There were also in a building.
If anyone made a thread saying Raikage vs Mei distance 5 meters, or any other current kage for that matter, who do you think would win?


----------



## Turrin (May 4, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> In all fairness all the kage were 5 meters apart.
> The Raikage's raiton shroud goes up in a second, faster than any other opponent's defense/offense there (cept maybe gaara). There were also in a building.
> If anyone made a thread saying Raikage vs Mei distance 5 meters, or any other current kage for that matter, who do you think would win?


I'm sorry, but this is simply not a defendable position. Ei might be able to blitz one Kage given the circumstances - though he is just as likely to attack with speed levels that Suigetsu reacted to and blitz no one -- but even assuming he does blitz at Max-Speed right off the bat, he'd take down one Kage (or Kage Guard) and while that's going on the other Kages (Kages Guards) would dish out their attacks. Ei would have been rape stomped, as all of the Kages (Kages Guards) were focus on him primarily.


----------



## tkpirate (May 4, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Name one mei/mifune/shino/hinata/anko/ibiki/pakura/toroi/magnetsu/ wanker. just one. I dare ya



yeah it's just that these characters are too weak or dosen't have anything to wank.though i did have to debate few people (in KL)why Gai and BM Naruto is stronger than Sakura.


----------



## Cognitios (May 4, 2014)

> I'm sorry, but this is simply not a defendable position. Ei might be able to blitz one Kage given the circumstances - though he is just as likely to attack with speed levels that Suigetsu reacted to and blitz no one -- but even assuming he does blitz at Max-Speed right off the bat, he'd take down one Kage (or Kage Guard) and while that's going on the other Kages (Kages Guards) would dish out their attacks. Ei would have been rape stomped, as all of the Kages (Kages Guards) were focus on him primarily.


It was bloodlusted position, and iirc the bodyguards were not there.
Not saying I agree E would win, but he is up there with Danzo and Gaara for winning.


----------



## Danzio (May 4, 2014)

1.Itachi
2.Itachi
3.Itachi
4.Itachi
5.Itachi

Kinda sad considering  Itachi's dead he can't get stronger since he's no longer relevant, so whenever he's matched up against the absolute elite he looks horrible. 

All his tards fault.


----------



## Rocky (May 4, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> I think she's in the same tier of speed as base Ei, given that she attacked in synchronisation with him. She also managed to jump in front of and repel all five of Madara's katon before Ei could think to do anything, if that means anything.



You know better than that. When ninja react or attack in concert with each other, it doesn't equate speed. Kakashi has preformed techniques in unison with Gated Gai. Lee's Kunai throwing speed was quick enough to combo with a Gate 8 Gai blitz. There are various examples of this.

Tsunade jumping in front of the fire proves that she's a quick thinker, but no, I don't think it merits putting her above all the other Kage in speed..



> Also, a shrouded Ei had confidence that Tsunade could assist him in his assault against Naruto and Bee, and likewise Tsunade had confidence that she could effectively fight against him.



Tsunade isn't a non-factor against a non-serious Naruto, so I don't know what the Raikage's confidence in her has to do with speed. Tsunade's behavior is rather imprudent at times, so I'm not surprised that she thought she could fight against max power Ē without Byakugo either. 

She hadn't even seen how fast his v2 Shunshin was. Tsunade would get blitzed by v2 Ē with no doubt in my mind. She is slower than Sasuke and her anticipation ability is not better than his Mangekyō precognition. Yet had it not been for Susano'o, even Sauce would have lost his head.



> I think their speed is about the same. As far as feats go, Tsunade seems a bit faster than base Ei.



Base Raikage has no feats except breaking zetsu's neck and receiving a complement regarding speed. I don't think Tsunade's speed has ever been noted once.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 4, 2014)

Itachi is the most underrated character in the NBD.


----------



## Blu-ray (May 4, 2014)

Many different characters get wanked.

Itachi solos. Totsuka and Yata gg. The level of wank in the battledome is fine, but go to other places, like the accursed youtube comment section, people actually think he can solo Gai, along with the rest of Konoha, and apparently Kishi said in an interview that no one has ever seen that he doesn't know who would win in a fight between him and Madara. It's fine here because it's clearly joking, but people actually believe that garbage.

Minato bamflashes. While this is true for the most part, people ignore the fact that Hiraishin has limitations and counters, and there are characters who can exploit it.

Naruto got it bad too, especially when he just got BM. Pit him in a thread against Hashi and suddenly he can blitz despite failing against someone with equivalent speed and reactions, and the size of his bijuudama are overestimated and Hashi for some reason can't suppress his chakra.

Kakashi. Kamui gg. Need I say more?

Jiraiya. Others may think it isn't wank, but it's clear as day to me that he's overrated. He cannot defeat the likes of Itachi and Pain, when they've both defeated stronger or equivalent foes with ease or moderate difficulty.

Sannin as a team. When people think they can give Rikudo trouble, then you know the wank is real.

Gai. The eight gates is actually underestimated, but when it comes to 7, people give him too much credit.

I don't know about Tsunade. At times her regeneration is overestimated at times, but the rest of the time it, along with her overall ability is severely underestimated, to the point people think she's a slow fodder that can die to a Kunai.


----------



## Ghost (May 4, 2014)

Kimimaro, Onoki, Jiraiya.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 4, 2014)

Rocky said:


> You know better than that. When ninja react or attack in concert with each other, it doesn't equate speed. Kakashi has preformed techniques in unison with Gated Gai. Lee's Kunai throwing speed was quick enough to combo with a Gate 8 Gai blitz. There are various examples of this.



I disagree. We cannot shrug off any and all of these feats as inaccurate simply because of few of them are not. It should be judged on an individual basis, and in this case there is absolutely no reason to assume that it's not legitimate. 

I'm unsure of what example you're referring to with Kakashi and Gai, but in the case of Lee, he was in his sixth gate, and he wasn't really attacking in unison with Gai, he just threw a kunai towards him while he was speeding towards Madara (and Gai was in the air, where he probably doesn't move as fast as he can on the ground anyway). 



> Tsunade jumping in front of the fire proves that she's a quick thinker, but no, I don't think it merits putting her above all the other Kage in speed..



Base Ei's ability to think quickly in this kind of situation cannot be disputed, because whenever Tsunade was about to be stabbed he immediately tried to rush in and save her [1] as did his peers. Yet, in a similar situation immediately prior no one bar Mei made any attempt to block or stop Madara's attack, and even she knew she wouldn't have made it in time.

Initially I put this down to the other Kage being exhausted and Tsunade being in a better condition to deal with the attack, but the fact that Tsunade ran out of chakra as soon as she finished regenerating from the katon shows that she wasn't in much better shape than any of her peers were. 




> Tsunade isn't a non-factor against a non-serious Naruto, so I don't know what the Raikage's confidence in her has to do with speed. Tsunade's behavior is rather imprudent at times, so I'm not surprised that she thought she could fight against max power Ē without Byakugo either.



I'm not entirely sure about that, if Ei had been struggling with Naruto and Bee because of their jutsu strength or general power I could agree, but the fact of the matter is that he was struggling with them because quite simply they were _fast_. Granted Tsunade isn't as fast as any of them, but if Ei had genuinely felt that she was too slow to make a difference, I doubt he would've asked for her assistance. 



> She hadn't even seen how fast his v2 Shunshin was. Tsunade would get blitzed by v2 Ē with no doubt in my mind. She is slower than Sasuke and her anticipation ability is not better than his Mangekyō precognition. Yet had it not been for Susano'o, even Sauce would have lost his head.



She'd get blitzed from close range, but if he came at her from any sort of distance I'm pretty sure she could block or protect herself before he hit her, meaning it wouldn't be a _complete_ blitz. She had seen the speed of V1 Ei, and seemed to be keeping up with his movements since she could tell what was going on in his short exchange with Naruto. [1] She also expressed genuine worry and cried out when he went to punch Naruto, again showing that she was capable of registering his movements.



> Base Raikage has no feats except breaking zetsu's neck and receiving a complement regarding speed. I don't think Tsunade's speed has ever been noted once.



But that's precisely the point. Base Ei's speed has actually been cited by another character, showing that even without his shroud he is quick. If Tsunade is capable of keeping pace with him and even reacting to attacks before he can, then by extension she is also a fast character.​​


----------



## Jagger (May 4, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> I don't think anyone who believes that they can just brush off someone's opinion simply because they listen to the canon description of a technique as opposed to subscribing to a currently unsupported board myth about its limitations should be taken seriously into any kind of debate.


So you believe she can without Katsuyu's help? Simple question.

There's a considerable difference between an opinion and someone that is completely ignoring canon and blurting out things that are not even logical.

For example, if I say Nagato can beat Juudara because the former was called a Rikkudo just like Madara, should that be considered a good argument or am I just misinterpreting things badly?

Edit: Okay, maybe I did come up a little bit rude by saying such straightforward words, so I apologize if I offended anyone.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

Jagger said:


> So you believe she can without Katsuyu's help? Simple question.



To be honest, yes.

Contradictions to such only arise when people start drawing in limitations currently inherent in real-life's typical humans, but Tsunade (actually nobody in her known family) is typical even amongst the super humans in the fictional Narutoverse, so.....



> There's a considerable difference between an opinion and someone that is completely ignoring canon and blurting out things that are not even logical.
> 
> For example, if I say Nagato can beat Juudara because the former was called a Rikkudo just like Madara, should that be considered a good argument or am I just misinterpreting things badly?



How is Tsunade's ability to regrow her head "ignoring canon"? Canonically, her Jutsu can recreate _all_ organs and parts, which would encompass her head.

The example with Nagato and Madara is incomparable, especially since Nagato was only ever called such a thing because Madara went and gave him _his_ eyes.


----------



## Kazekage94 (May 4, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi is the most underrated character in the NBD.



Shut up dude


----------



## ATastyMuffin (May 4, 2014)

Tsunade has _gotta_ be up there. More specifically, the notion of her being able to take on the likes of Ay. 

How the fuck is she going to react to his maximum-speed Body Flicker _slicing her head off_? I'm not going to sit here and pretend her _Strength of a Hundred Technique_ is going to regenerate it; it's fair to assume the usage of it takes a hefty amount of chakra control to maintain, and Tsunade can't exactly do so while her cranium is up and about flying.

Do people in this forum *seriously* believe her brain is going to regenerate? Ergo, her mind itself is going to reform? 

There's also a case where posters said, without a hint of irony in their posts, that Tsunade could beat Minato by making contact with her Nervous System Rupture. All because, and I quote, 'all she needs is a single finger touch'. This was stated even in the prospect of Minato decapitating, or slamming a Rasengan into her back.

Sorry, Minato is miles faster and wouldn't let Tsunade touch him.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (May 4, 2014)

Eh, Madara with Hashi's Byakugo (Function same as Tsunade) and SM can't recreate an arm, let alone a head...... 

It's not like she can regrow a freakin head anytime w/o getting drained *even* it's possible.


----------



## Transcendent Shinobi (May 4, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> Many different characters get wanked.
> 
> Itachi solos. Totsuka and Yata gg. The level of wank in the battledome is fine, but go to other places, like the accursed youtube comment section, people actually think he can solo Gai, along with the rest of Konoha, and apparently Kishi said in an interview that no one has ever seen that he doesn't know who would win in a fight between him and Madara. It's fine here because it's clearly joking, but people actually believe that garbage.
> 
> ...



Who has Itachi killed with ease that jiraiya cannot? Jiraiya can kill sasuke,deidara, and can hold his own with pain for awhile.....

Itachi killing his clan with Obito's hax power , or killing kabuto with sasuke while he is EDO or killing nagato with a suprise attack while he is busy with naruto while again he has INFINITE EDO power does not count.
Your point is not valid at all.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2014)

Whoever I'm currently arguing against.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Eh, Madara with Hashi's Byakugo (Function same as Tsunade) and SM can't recreate an arm, let alone a head......



Hashi only has "_Byakugō_" in the sense that he can heal without weaving hand signs; said ability to forego handseals was Madara's sole basis for Hashirama's healing techniques being superior to Tsunade's.

It was never noted that his actual restorative ability eclipsed what Madara had seen of Tsunade's _Shosen_, and then you can account for the fact that Tsunade's regenerative technique is noted to be _the_ ultimate medical Ninjutsu because it is able to recreate _all_ of her organs and parts, something established as impossible for other medical ninjutsu.

So there you go.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (May 4, 2014)

Turrin said:


> People need to realize that in this manga speed is fluid rather than static, and is more accurately measured by a range instead of an integer. This is due to the fact that even outside of specialized techniques like Raiton no Yoroi, specialize abilities like Sharingan there are more universal abilities/jutsu that enhance speed, and Shunshin which is ill defined in and off itself; something that gets completely ignored in the NBD these days is that Kishi clearly demonstrated that speed can be greatly enhanced by channeling chakra to certain appendages. We saw Sasuke utilize such an ability against Zabuza and Haku, allowing him to match Haku who has much faster reflexes/movement speed (4 vs 3). Than later we see Sasuke being able to recreate Lee's unweight speed, most likely through the same method of channeling chakra to ones appendages; or if it was not that, than there is yet a third ill defined method of increasing ones speed through the consumption of chakra/stamina. Additionally since this is a genin level skill, probably most characters in the manga have mastery of this skill.
> 
> The problem is that the skill itself is ill defined. How does it increase speed exactly. Is the speed increase relative to the amount of chakra channelled, the quality of chakra channeled or the amount of chakra control exercised. We have no way to measure whose going to be better at this skill than others and since Kishi has stopped bothering to show when this skill is exercised we have no way to know how frequently someone utilizes this skill.
> 
> ...



A dodged Amaterasu from close range. There are a few things that can hit A.


----------



## Turrin (May 4, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> A dodged Amaterasu from close range. There are a few things that can hit A.


----------



## trance (May 4, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> How is Tsunade's ability to regrow her head "ignoring canon"? Canonically, her Jutsu can recreate _all_ organs and parts, which would encompass her head.



I believe this is a no limits fallacy.


----------



## Cognitios (May 4, 2014)

^ Can you give me that scan?
iirc Ay hit Suigetsu not the other way around.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 4, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> I believe this is a no limits fallacy.



Not quite.


----------



## Turrin (May 4, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> ^ Can you give me that scan?
> iirc Ay hit Suigetsu not the other way around.


Ei went to hit Sasuke and than Suigetsu intercepted the blow; hence Suigetsu kept up with Ei's speed in that instance:
[3]


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## Cognitios (May 4, 2014)

> Ei went to hit Sasuke and than Suigetsu intercepted the blow; hence Suigetsu kept up with Ei's speed in that instance.


I'd need the scan to see exactly what went on, but a lot depends on how close Suigetsu was, how far away E was, and Suigetsu might have instinctively gotten in front of Sasuke to defend him if he saw a kage level opponent.


----------



## Turrin (May 4, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> I'd need the scan to see exactly what went on, but a lot depends on how close Suigetsu was, how far away E was, and Suigetsu might have instinctively gotten in front of Sasuke to defend him if he saw a kage level opponent.


I highly doubt Kishimoto is drawing that scene with any of those things in mind. To analyze the scene that deeply is both reaching and ignoring the author's intent imo.


----------



## Trojan (May 4, 2014)

I find it rather funny that some people are talking about Tsunade's speed and how she can't do anything
to A's full speed. When in fact a lot/ if not all the other none-speedester characters treated the same way

put KCM (or up) Naruto, Tobirama, Minato, obito's Kmui at some times  and probably gai, against people like

itachi, Hashirama, Nagato (who can't even move)...etc
and you will see those can all of sudden keep up with team 1 speed even though they do not even
have half of their speed. I think you can cancel out Gai, because he showed "raw power" so people will take 
in regard his speed and say "He's too fast for the other guy to react" when his speed is even less that FTG. But, since he showed "Raw power" his speed were given its credits as well. That however is not the case in the other 3 cases. (Even Though Naruto has insane raw power, but he did not show enough raw power against JJ madara, and that's why his speed gets underrated in some cases) 

so, long story short, it's not like if that problem happen with only Tsunade. lol 
I think it's redicilous how some people only want to bush her and/or think she's as slow as snail
(mainly because of her feats against Kabuto in part 1 I suppose?)


----------



## Rocky (May 4, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I highly doubt Kishimoto is drawing that scene with any of those things in mind. To analyze the scene that deeply is both reaching and ignoring the author's intent imo.



And how do you know that, exactly? 

Ē & Darui both traveled at the same speed, and both Jūgo & Suigetsu were able to jump in front of them without issue. Later, Jūgo - in a more powerful form than before - barley threw up a mere _arm guard_ in response to the Raikage's flicker.

The Raikage did not move at maximum (note: "maximum" as in the limit of v1, not v2) speed against Suigetsu. Ninja aren't always charging in at full speed. They only use what they believe to be necessary.


----------



## Cognitios (May 4, 2014)

> I highly doubt Kishimoto is drawing that scene with any of those things in mind. To analyze the scene that deeply is both reaching and ignoring the author's intent imo.


I highly doubt Kishimoto would go about saying that Ay is the fastest man alive then have Suigetsu being faster than him. Kishi doesn't give a hoot about anything in the battledome, he doesn't focus on the battles, that's why we have so much discussion on it here, if he really cared about the battles he would have databooks dedicated to listing all the justu each character knows and he would have accurate stats for each character. The truth is if Kishi were in this battledome we would still argue with him.


----------



## Turrin (May 4, 2014)

Rocky said:


> The Raikage did not move at maximum (note: "maximum" as in the limit of v1, not v2) speed against Suigetsu. Ninja aren't always charging in at full speed. They only use what they believe to be necessary.


It's funny that your parroting this to me, when this was precisely my point. Ei at the low range of his speed can be matched by a Suigetsu who was probably using the upper range of his speed.



> And how do you know that, exactly?


Common sense 



Cognitios said:


> I highly doubt Kishimoto would go about saying that Ay is the fastest man alive then have Suigetsu being faster than him.


Minato is faster than Ei according to Kishimoto, but if Minato was using purely his base-speed and Ei was using his max speed, it would be Minato eating the pavement despite him being faster than Ei. It's the same with Ei and Suigetsu: Ei at the low range of his speed can be matched by a Suigetsu who was probably using the upper range of his speed.



> Kishi doesn't give a hoot about anything in the battledome, he doesn't focus on the battles, that's why we have so much discussion on it here, if he really cared about the battles he would have databooks dedicated to listing all the justu each character knows and he would have accurate stats for each character. The truth is if Kishi were in this battledome we would still argue with him.


If your arguing against Kishi than your argument already looses all merit



Hussain said:


> so, long story short, it's not like if that problem happen with only Tsunade. lol
> I think it's redicilous how some people only want to bush her and/or think she's as slow as snail
> (mainly because of her feats against Kabuto in part 1 I suppose?)


Thing with Tsunade is that Ei himself clearly believed Tsunade would be able to combat B and KCM-Naruto both of which were keeping up with Ei in speed throughout their skirmish. Like wise Tsunade herself believed she would be able to combat Ei. So to believe Ei can simply dodge around Tsunade the entire match without her being able to even touch him, is a flat out denial of cannon.

Tsunade would be able to touch Ei for the same reason Suigetsu was able to, because Ei does not use his max-speed the entire match. So while Ei is using his lower range of speed and Tsunade is using her upper range of speed, she'd be able to keep pace with him to a certain extent, and there is her avenue to be competent against Ei in CQC. Well that and her ability to take Ei's hits w/ Byakugo while she only needs one to end Ei, as well as her ability to catch Ei unaware when she rises from "dead" via Byakugo regen.


----------



## ATastyMuffin (May 4, 2014)

> Hussain;50564992
> so, long story short, it's not like if that problem happen with only Tsunade. lol
> I think it's redicilous how some people only want to bush her and/or think she's as slow as snail
> (mainly because of her feats against Kabuto in part 1 I suppose?)



She's not _'slow as snails'_, but relative to upper-tier characters in this department, it's needless to say that she lacks feats. I don't recall a single impressive moment of speed in her fighting career in the post-timeskip half of this manga.

Let alone one that would permit her to react to a guy who was blitzing Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke.


----------



## Jak N Blak (May 4, 2014)

Sakura, hands DOWN!


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> I'd need the scan to see exactly what went on, but a lot depends on how close Suigetsu was, how far away E was, and Suigetsu might have instinctively gotten in front of Sasuke to defend him if he saw a kage level opponent.



Or interceptions/dynamic entries don't count as speed feats and Ei wasn't using his full speed as he and Darui were striking in tandem.

Sasuke even commented that he could handle his V1 speed with his sharingan, until Ei went full on ameterasu dodging speed and left Sasuke standing still.

Those are things we could consider before attributing Minato speed to Suigetsu.


----------



## Turrin (May 4, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Or interceptions/dynamic entries don't count as speed feats and Ei wasn't using his full speed as he and Darui were striking in tandem.
> 
> Sasuke even commented that he could handle his V1 speed with his sharingan, until Ei went full on ameterasu dodging speed and left Sasuke standing still.
> 
> Those are things we could consider before attributing Minato speed to Suigetsu.


Yet another person who jumps in without reading my prior posts. No one was saying Suigetsu = Ei's max speed jeesh.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2014)

Hussain said:


> I find it rather funny that some people are talking about Tsunade's speed and how she can't do anything
> to A's full speed. When in fact a lot/ if not all the other none-speedester characters treated the same way
> 
> put KCM (or up) Naruto, Tobirama, Minato, obito's Kmui at some times  and probably gai, against people like
> ...



Kishimoto tends to make a big deal out of speed differentials in the first fights, in one on one fight.  Then he does a group scene with same tier people and everyone kind of gravitates towards the center.  The fast characters remain faster, but it's not groundbreaking, and their differences just aren't played up like it seems they should be.  Like Minato and Tobirama were faster than Sasuke, but it wasn't exactly noticeable until they did a thing like hirashin blitz or hiraishin-giri that pointed back to their speed.  Sasuke is egregious because he got Itachi's eyes, but still performed slower than Itachi when they were fighting side by side, and then he had a chat with Hashirama and got a speed boost by basking in his presence or something.  Admittedly though, power and speed flux never used to get as bad it has recently, even though I always got a sense that it was there and same tier people would just suddenly have a counter or not get speed blitzed by their peers in order to have a good fight.


----------



## Sans (May 4, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Yet another person who jumps in without reading my prior posts. No one was saying Suigetsu = Ei's max speed jeesh.



To be fair, it's quite painful reading your posts.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2014)

Plus I was talking to Incognitos.


----------



## Kai (May 4, 2014)

This thread is littered with fantastic examples as to why it needs to be put on lock as soon as possible.


----------



## Risyth (May 4, 2014)

Kimimaro comes to mind.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2014)

Kai said:


> This thread is littered with fantastic examples as to why it needs to be put on lock as soon as possible.



I think closing threads is over-rated in the battledome and mod locking is wanked to no end.


----------



## Turrin (May 4, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Plus I was talking to Incognitos.


Incognitos wasn't saying Suigetsu could match Ei's max-speed ether. So who were you directing your post towards?


----------



## Cognitios (May 4, 2014)

> Plus I was talking to Incognitos.





> Incognitos wasn't saying Suigetsu could match Ei's max-speed ether. So who were you directing your post towards?


Why must my name be forgotten so quickly?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 5, 2014)

If your name was Precognitos we'd know it before you posted.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Why must my name be forgotten so quickly?


I thought your name was inviting us to make those puns.


----------



## Rocky (May 5, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> If your name was Precognitos we'd know it before you posted.



Fuck you are clever.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 5, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I don't recall a single impressive moment of speed in her fighting career in the post-timeskip half of this manga.



There have been quite a few instances where she's shown good speed.

When she attacks in unison with Base Ei (who had previously been called fast). Note that Ei's attack blitzed Muu, suggesting that they were moving pretty quickly. [1]

When she reacts to, jumps in front of and _successively_ bats away all five of Madara's katon projectiles before the other four Kage could manage to think or do anything. [2] It's not as if they _couldn't_ do anything either, Gaara could have erected a sand shield, Onoki could have formed a rock golem/wall, Mei evidently could have tried to extinguish them, and Ei could have at least dodged in the knowledge that his peers had methods of protecting themselves.

When she _outpaces_ an airborne Onoki, who in his own right had kept up with an airborne Deidara and been cited as fast by another character. [3]

Also, Tsunade has been hailed as an evasive expert, and while we've yet to see her put those abilities to good use, we have seen Chiyo masterfully dodging hundreds of fast-moving needles in quick succession. Chiyo attributes this _" ability to see through and avoid attacks as they come "_ to her _huge battle experience_ (which comes with _age_). Tsunade invented the medical rule about ensuring to be never hit by an enemy's attacks early on in her medical career, giving her _at least_ 30 years to employ this rule practically on the battlefield. This would give Tsunade significant experience at evading and anticipating her opponent's attacks, which is something Sakura can clearly be seen doing throughout her match with Sasori. 

If what Chiyo states is correct, and we can only assume that it is, then Tsunade should also possess high evasive skills, making her by extension, _quick_. If we were to powerscale, Tsunade's evasive skills should be on a similar level to Chiyo's.​​


----------



## blk (May 5, 2014)

The most wanked (and overrated) characters are, imo, Tsunade and Naruto.
In almost every thread about them, that i read, there are people wanking/overestimating them.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2014)

On the issue of Tsunade's speed. Her speed is a (3.5) in DBIII, however we've seen characters like Hiruzen & Hidan, who have comparable (or lesser) spd stat match (or even out match) characters with much greater speeds; Orochimaru, Kakashi, & Asuma. Whether you want to credit this to their skill in Taijutsu -- all three Tsunade included being roof tier -- or you want to credit this to their attacks having extended reach (scythe & enma staff) -- Tsunade can also extend her reach through her herculean strength, creating shockwaves with her blows or picking up large objects to throw around -- Tsunade can match them in that regard. Than we also have characters like CE Sasuke who has a lesser spd stat match characters with much greater speeds like Haku & CE-Lee. Sasuke accomplished that through the channeling chakra to his appendages method -- Tsunade exercised the same ability in the Pain-Arc, but simply with a different application -- which likely has something to do with chakra control -- Tsunade's bread and butter -- and if not surely a 50 year old Sannin would be able to use the skill better than CE-Sasuke. Than of course their is Shunshin, which is ill defined, though one would expect a 50 yo Sannin to have great mastery of this skill.

Simply put Tsunade's speed's high range is probably able to compete at the very least with speedsters low-range. And since speedsters tend to use their low-range frequently throughout a match, she'll be able to keep pace with them with a certain degree of frequency.. She'll get blitz if they dial their speed up to max, but she has her medical jutsu and katsuya to allow her to survive these instances.


----------



## Blu-ray (May 5, 2014)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> Who has Itachi killed with ease that jiraiya cannot? Jiraiya can kill sasuke,deidara, and can hold his own with pain for awhile.....
> 
> Itachi killing his clan with Obito's hax power , or killing kabuto with sasuke while he is EDO or killing nagato with a suprise attack while he is busy with naruto while again he has INFINITE EDO power does not count.
> Your point is not valid at all.



I never used the word kill. I said defeat. My prime example being Orochimaru. Both he and Jman are portrayed as equal, with Orochimaru being slightly stronger due to past victory. Orochimaru has higher intelligence, equivalent speed, a higher genjutsu stat, and more knowledge on Itachi and Sharingan that Jiraiya does. Yet somehow, Itachi could only hope to stalemate Jiraiya, despite the fact that he beat Orochimaru with no difficulty, twice. Even in threads pitting the two of them, the only argument is Itachi's statement, which anyone with half a brain knows isn't true.

I don't even know what your second paragraph has to do with anything. I'm not so stupid that I'd accredit feats Itachi accomplished with help from others to himself only. He could certainly kill Sasuke and Deidara, but with the ease Itachi could? No. He cannot.


----------



## Psp123789 (May 5, 2014)

Hashirama, madara, guy, tsunade, and I use to think minato and Itachi but I would now
say they get underrated too much. Itachi is getting severly underrated lately.


----------



## Stermor (May 6, 2014)

most versions of sasuke, kimimaro and the sound 4. actually a lot of part 1 genins are overrated.


----------



## ARGUS (May 6, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> Hashirama, madara, guy, tsunade, and I use to think minato and Itachi but I would now
> say they get underrated too much. Itachi is getting severly underrated lately.



I have never seen minato get underrated 
On the other hand he is overrated in almost every thread
With the classic Speed blitz GG
Itachi isn't underrated it's jus that there are some reluctant ppl who dnt like him


----------



## Soul (May 6, 2014)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> Im sure you can all think of many more but these 3 are pretty much a given.



Tsunade, Jiraiya, Itachi.



FlamingRain said:


> I don't wank anybody Bonly!



You are too young to wank someone.



Kazekage94 said:


> Umm no no and no lol. Butthurt about what? Negs don't matter you just hate on Gaara. What lies? Are we really spreading rumors on a Naruto website like a 16 year old girl?



You claim negs don't matter, yet you asked someone to disable yours.



Turrin said:


> Deidara, Itachi, Ei, and Kakashi; in that order.
> 
> Deidara people outright make up accomplishments for him that he doesn't even have, that's why he edges out Itachi, who is overrated to the extent that people ignore manga cannon statements to elevate his level. The other two are simply overrated extensively given their actual performances in the manga.



>Turrin posting in a wank thread.
Ha.


----------



## Kazekage94 (May 6, 2014)

Soul said:


> Tsunade, Jiraiya, Itachi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who the hell are you and why are you responding to my comment? Were you originally in the conversation? I don't think so ha so. Next I never asked someone to disable it, so you are wrong on that note as well.


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## titantron91 (May 6, 2014)

Most wanked

1. Minato (because speed>>>>>anything... and because he's blonde and blue-eyed)
2. Hashirama (because he beat an Uchiha, and everyone hates the Uchiha)
3. Itachi (the patron saint of the Uchiholics)
4. A/3rd Raikage (coz they're apparently black and they're speedsters)
5. Onoki and Muu (because Jinton GG)

runners-up

Kakashi (Kamui GG)
Naruto (blonde blue eyed ninja Jesus)


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## Kazekage94 (May 6, 2014)

@titantron91 race has nothing to do with it.


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## Jagger (May 7, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> To be honest, yes.
> 
> Contradictions to such only arise when people start drawing in limitations currently inherent in real-life's typical humans, but Tsunade (actually nobody in her known family) is typical even amongst the super humans in the fictional Narutoverse, so....


That doesn't them unkillable. Yes, that makes them hard to kill since they can just regrow most of their limbs and that's something human beings are not capable of do (at least, to not such extent). However, how can Tsunade regrow her head if she will die instantly or just won't be capable of sending any kind of signal from her brain to the best of her body to heal herself? Cna she even control her own body in case such scenario happens?




> How is Tsunade's ability to regrow her head "ignoring canon"? Canonically, her Jutsu can recreate _all_ organs and parts, which would encompass her head.


Because every jutsu has its limitations or weakeness. Wise words from our Lord Itachi.

It applies to every single technique in the Naruverse (except, maybe, for anything Rikkudo-related), but I don't see Tsunade's regeneration being completely limitless and capable of regenerating her head or just regrowing her head again. 

Her brain is gone. The source of every single basic human movements (since Tsunade, at the end, is a human after all) comes from such organ. If it is gone, how can she regrow it? Or mold chakra in the first place?


----------



## FlamingRain (May 7, 2014)

Jagger said:


> That doesn't them unkillable. Yes, that makes them hard to kill since they can just regrow most of their limbs and that's something human beings are not capable of do (at least, to not such extent). However, how can Tsunade regrow her head if she will die instantly or just won't be capable of sending any kind of signal from her brain to the best of her body to heal herself? Cna she even control her own body in case such scenario happens?



I never said it made them un-killable; Tsunade being able to survive decapitation doesn't even make her un-killable.

Decapitations have been reported to not "instantly" shut down the body in real life (needless to say they shouldn't do it "instantly" to people special among super humans) but instead result in consciousness being lost several seconds after the severing and the body shutting down after that; plus Tobirama got half his brain atomized and kept casting Jutsu (and him simply being an _Edo Tensei_ doesn't explain it because we've seen multiple _Edo Tensei_-Hanzo, Haku, Zabuza, "Madara", etc., etc., etc.- "die" temporarily as they would in life before their regeneration kicks in).



> Because every jutsu has its limitations or weakeness.



Just because every Jutsu has a weakness doesn't mean decapitation specifically is one of _Byakugō's_ as there are other limits to the technique (ex.; duration, needing a place to regrow _from_ in the first place because it's rooted in replication, soul ripping and sealing because those make the physical form irrelevant, etc.)



> If it is gone, how can she regrow it? Or mold chakra in the first place?



The Jutsu is autonomous as implied by the data-book saying "it" can remake all organs and parts as well as the original seal becoming negative space as the Chakra flows throughout her body once the technique is activated (she isn't actively molding that Chakra, which is the purpose of the seal as, again, pointed out in the databook and further evidenced by the foregoing of hand-seals upon use).

It's kind of similar to an inducible operon, I think. After Tsunade activates it it'll keep going by itself until she shuts it off (or the battery dies).


----------



## ATastyMuffin (May 7, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> When she attacks in unison with Base Ei (*who had previously been called fast*).



Through the words of no other than White Zetsu, who is more or less equivalent to your average Chuunin. I wouldn't put too much stock into that as even a decent speed feat.



> Note that Ei's attack blitzed Muu, suggesting that they were moving pretty quickly. [1]



It's not necessarily that the *punch* of Ay was too fast for Muu to react, but that having two adversaries _literally_ materialize out of freakin' thin air surprised the living fuck out of the Tsuchikage and caught him entirely off-guard, thus permitting Ay the window to strike him unopposed.

Base Ay blitzing Muu to begin with isn't even _remotely_ feasible considering he was reacting fine to sneak attacks from Nine-Tails Chakra Mode Naruto.



> When she reacts to, jumps in front of and _successively_ bats away all five of Madara's katon projectiles before the other four Kage could manage to think or do anything. [2] It's not as if they _couldn't_ do anything either, Gaara could have erected a sand shield, Onoki could have formed a rock golem/wall, Mei evidently could have tried to extinguish them, and Ei could have at least dodged in the knowledge that his peers had methods of protecting themselves.



That's not a good speed feat.

Know why? Because it's clear as day that said Kage were exhausted far out of their usual reserves, thus for them to be unable to deflect the Fire Release attacks of Madara as opposed to Tsunade's counter is perfectly viable. 

She can't be given the same excuse, since up until literally right after blocking those flames Tsunade was running entirely on Strength of a Hundred the entire day. Healing her injuries, accounting for damage that the rest of the Five Kage couldn't have been. So to say Tsunade moved before four tired-as-fuck, battered Kage did isn't impressive in the slightest.



> When she _outpaces_ an airborne Onoki, who in his own right had kept up with an airborne Deidara and been cited as fast by another character. [3]



Where are you getting 'outpaced' from? Onoki and Ay hit Madara first. 



> Also, Tsunade has been hailed as an evasive expert, and while we've yet to see her put those abilities to good use, we have seen Chiyo masterfully dodging hundreds of *fast-moving needles in quick succession*.



Fast is relative. They could be fast for Chuunin, for all we know.

Doesn't make it a good speed feat, bub.



> Chiyo attributes this _" ability to see through and avoid attacks as they come "_ to her _huge battle experience_ (which comes with _age_). Tsunade invented the medical rule about ensuring to be never hit by an enemy's attacks early on in her medical career, giving her _at least_ 30 years to employ this rule practically on the battlefield. This would give Tsunade significant experience at evading and anticipating her opponent's attacks, which is something Sakura can clearly be seen doing throughout her match with Sasori.
> 
> If what Chiyo states is correct, and we can only assume that it is, then Tsunade should also possess high evasive skills, making her by extension, _quick_. If we were to powerscale, Tsunade's evasive skills should be on a similar level to Chiyo's.[/indent][/justify]



I seriously hope you DO understand that when I say Tsunade lacks a good speed feat to her name, I mean *relatively*, to other known characters we can compare with. Pay attention to this word. Tsunade could be as evasive as her hype as a medical ninja can permit, that doesn't change the fact that when it comes to feats, she's been unfortunately underwhelming. Repeating ad nauseum that she's been stated to have 'high evasive skills' means jack shit when we don't have any references to look to. Who has she evaded? How fast were they?

Even relative to minor 'speedsters' like Kakashi, Tsunade has never been depicted to be on the same level. She's decidedly low or mid-tier in this department.

*EDIT:* Just noticed this part. 




> Originally Posted by *Godaime Tsunade*
> When she reacts to, jumps in front of and _successively_ bats away all five of Madara's katon projectiles before the other four *Kage could manage to think or do anything.*



Before they could manage to think? Read your own damn scan. Mei was reacting perfectly fine.


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