# MS Sasuke vs SM Naruto



## Matty (Sep 25, 2015)

Area: Destroyed Konoha
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions: None
Distance: 50 Meters
Mindset: IC

This is MS Sasuke from Danzo fight and SM Naruto from Pein fight


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## Trojan (Sep 25, 2015)

Naruto wins obviously. 

His sensing ability should be a huge advantage over Sasuke. And he is really better than Sasuke in everything
else (beside the Genjutsu).


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## Hachibi (Sep 25, 2015)

Debatable. Both can win this.

Just don't take Hussain's word for it.


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## Trojan (Sep 25, 2015)

Yes, take Zetsu's words for it. The one who knows it all. 

but nah, I guess he only knows it all when it comes to itachi. 

and Kishi totally did not make that clear either. 

Even Sasuke knows that Naruto is always ahead of him.


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## Hachibi (Sep 25, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Yes, take Zetsu's words for it. The one who knows it all.
> 
> but nah, I guess he only knows it all when it comes to itachi.
> 
> ...



Does that mean that Bell Exam Naruto > Bell Exam Sasuke?

You're taking the quote a bit too literally Hussain.

Also:>Using Zetsu's word out of context

Sasuga Hussain.


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## Trojan (Sep 25, 2015)

> "he is stronger than Sasuke"
> Out of context, he means Naruto is not actually stronger

> Sasuke "you had always walked in front of me"
> No, he does not mean that, he surely means something else that only "I" got

> Hachibi


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## Hachibi (Sep 25, 2015)

Hussain said:


> > "he is stronger than Sasuke"
> > Out of context, he means Naruto is not actually stronger
> 
> 
> > Hachibi



Yes, he's stronger than a Sasuke with unmastered MS.

But the one in this thread isn't unmastered MS Sasuke (aka Bee fight/arguable Raikage fight), so I don't know what you're bringing this out, hence out of context 

Also, Hussain plz, Itachi was shown too in the scan you posted, does that mean Itachi > Rinnegan Sasuke?

I interpreted it as Sasuke feeling inferior to Naruto spiritually. hence you taking the "always" too literally.


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## Trojan (Sep 25, 2015)

> Sasuke from Danzo's fight got his Susanoo torn apart from B-Rank jutsu

> He expect it to hold a candle to an S-Rank jutsu (FRS) that putted Kurama in pain

> Hachibi.


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## Hachibi (Sep 25, 2015)

Hussain said:


> > Sasuke from Danzo's fight got his Susanoo torn apart from B-Rank jutsu
> 
> > He expect it to hold a candle to an S-Rank jutsu (FRS) that putted Kurama in pain
> 
> > Hachibi.



>Implying that this B-Rank jutsu wasn't enhanced.

>Implying that FRS is always going to be used (like Sasuke not letting him do it in the first place)

>Hussain

Now, as entertaining it was, I should let you alone.


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## Trojan (Sep 25, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Also, Hussain plz, Itachi was shown too in the scan you posted, does that mean Itachi > Rinnegan Sasuke?
> 
> I interpreted it as Sasuke feeling inferior to Naruto spiritually. hence you taking the "always" too literally.





"ONCE did"

When itachi was alive, he was always ahead of Sasuke, yes. That is not the same as with the statements about Naruto. 

Try to focus a little more instead of trying to downplay anything about Naruto for you Sasuke-agenda.


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## Trojan (Sep 25, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> >Implying that this B-Rank jutsu wasn't enhanced.
> 
> >Implying that FRS is always going to be used (like Sasuke not letting him do it in the first place)
> 
> ...



> Implying SM won't enhance the FRS.  

> implying Sasuke can stop it from being used when no one else could. 
(Kurama, Pain, 3rd Raikage, Nagato...etc etc)

> Hachibi.


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## Hachibi (Sep 25, 2015)

Hussain said:


> "ONCE did"
> 
> When itachi was alive, he was always ahead of Sasuke, yes. That is not the same as with the statements about Naruto.
> 
> Try to focus a little more instead of trying to downplay anything about Naruto for you Sasuke-agenda.



Dude, I couldn't care less if Naruto > Sasuke, that won't change my life.

But I can't agree with your logic, like saying that the statement about Itachi=/=statement about Naruto when they're in the same panel.



Hussain said:


> > Implying the SM won't enhance the FRS.



And? 



> > implying Sasuke can stop it fro being used when no one else could.
> (Kurama, Pain, 3rd Raikage, Nagato...etc etc)



Hussain plz, none of them as something like Susano to help them.

Plus either they could take it without much damage (Kurama/3rd Raikage) or having something to make it useless (Pain/Nagato)

Plus Pain arc SM Naruto is limited to 5 minute in Sage Mode and two FRS so good luck

Anyways, I won't bother to respond again, too tired for this.


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## Trojan (Sep 25, 2015)

> But I can't agree with your logic, like saying that the statement about Itachi=/=statement about Naruto when they're in the same panel.




stop acting like a fool, Hachibi. Sasuke used the past tense for itachi because when they were alive Sasuke was inferior to itachi. That IS indeed how it was shown. How does his statement in any way, shape ,or form imply a comparison between itachi and Sasuke with the Rinnegan when itachi never even seen that?  

And Naruto kept having statement and showing that he is the superior fighter ever since. As I said, Zetsu stated so, and then we have seen his power against Kurama as well.

When Itachi saw KCM Naruto, he also stated that Naruto is the superior one. When Sasuke saw Naruto's power against Obito, he also felt mad because he knew that Naruto is ahead of him. Same shit was clear in Kaguya's battle, and even tho Naruto was not trying to kill Sasuke, and holding back his power, Sasuke needed all 9 Bijuus to try to close the huge gap in power between them, and still lost, and admitted himself that Naruto is the superior one. What the hell do you want more that stating the obvious to you directly?



> And?


And your excuse for Danzo's jutsu being powered up is less than smart. Danzo's jutsu is B-Ranked jutsu
and it was powered up be his summon. Naruto's FRS even when it was 50% of its full power, it is an S-Rank
jutsu. Now, SM will obviously give a much more power up than what than animle gave to Danzo's jutsu. Therefore,
Sasuke's Susanoo is not tanking shit. 

Sasuke's Susanoo in his battle was not even V3 (like the one Madara did against the Kages), and that size
of the Susanoo (which is bigger than the one Sasuke used against Danzo) is not even the size of Kurama's tail.

How the fuck do you expect it to handle Naruto's firepower than even Kurama couldn't? delusion at its best.  



> Hussain plz, none of them as something like Susano to help them.



Indeed, they have better stuff. 



> Plus Pain arc SM Naruto is limited to 5 minute in Sage Mode and two FRS so good luck


Yeah, and Sasuke can activate his Susanoo the whole time? 
don't make me laugh. He kept deactivating it, and kept coughing blood the whole battle. 



> Anyways, I won't bother to respond again, too tired for this.


Good. Stating the obvious is boring anyway.


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## Gibbs (Sep 25, 2015)

Naruto wins this. high diff.


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## Alex Payne (Sep 25, 2015)

Can go either way. Personally favoring Sasuke due to Naruto lacking good genjutsu counter and possibility of Amaterasu messing FRS up.

Yo, Hussain. Kakashi's Raikiri is S-rank. Kakuzu's Raiton: Gian is B-rank. Whose jutsu is going to win in a clash?


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 25, 2015)

SM Naruto should win this decisively. 

Senpo Rasengan to the ground create dust clouds to disallow Ameterasu & Enton targeting, Dust Cloud can be brought out with Ma and sage sensory allows him to locate and blindside Sasuke in the cloud with multiple FRS.

MS Sasuke knew nothing about Sage Mode or that Naruto could use it, doubtful he starts with Amaterasu initially considering he probably thinks he can blitz him with extension Chidori. Certainly had no issue going at a Raikage with his katana before using Amaterasu, and Jinchuriki that raped Suigetsu & CS1 Jugo without even revealing a single technique, while unarmed. 

He'll be in for a surprise, though it's the case for the latter.. difference being SM Naruto's Kata can one shot without warning with superior CQC ability (in my opinion at least, SM precog > MS precog) and immediate Senpo Odama Rasengan creation laughs at extension Chidori by bulling through it and forcing Sasuke to use ribcage, which lets Naruto know Sasuke now has MS, which means no lol amaterasu for him later on and Susano is lol compared to Amaterasu in speed so that isn't doing shit to SM Naruto


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## t0xeus (Sep 25, 2015)

I believe Sasuke wins this high diff.

I consider SM Naruto (Pein arc) to be equal with MS Sasuke (Killer Bee fight), but this version is stronger because of the addition of Enton and Susanoo to his arsenal.

Naruto can't outsmart him by holding him by his clone or anything, since Sasuke can just use Susanoo, so he has to somehow hit him from larger distance with FRS, which will be very hard since Sasuke will notice the chakra building for FRS with his sharingan in a moment and will just try to disrupt it with arrow if he's clever enough, or simply use Amaterasu.

I just don't see a way that Sasuke loses this, his defence is solid and Naruto has only 2 tries with FRS.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 25, 2015)

Nah, Sasuke was still ahead, the reader just didn't account for all Naruto's prep. Give Sasuke a few boss snakes and ninjutsu prep (Kirin) to match Naruto's prep against Pain and Sauce will win.

Put them both in a ring unprepped, and base Naruto would get thrashed and may not be unable to reach Sage Mode at all since Sasuke needs relatively little prep (exception being Kirin.)

Prepped Hebi Sasuke > Prepped Sage Naruto (Pain Arc)
Unprepped Hebi Sasuke > Unprepped Naruto (Pain Arc)​


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## Ghost (Sep 25, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Naruto wins obviously.
> 
> His sensing ability should be a huge advantage over Sasuke. And he is really better than Sasuke in everything
> else (beside the Genjutsu).



Naruto himself said Sasuke is stronger so...


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 25, 2015)

Their summit arc incarnations are more or less equal. Sasuke has the slight edge in my book because I find his Susano'o and Amateras/enton combos more lethal and harder to deal with than rasengan variants and FRS.

I'd say 6/10 Sasuke.


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## Tarot (Sep 25, 2015)

I think portrayal-wise, they were even and would have both died if their kage summit selves fought.


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## Cognitios (Sep 25, 2015)

I can't see FRS breaching Susanoo tbh. 
I also think MS Sasuke lasts in MS longer than SM Naruto lasts in SM.

Sasuke high diff, 6/10


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## Kyu (Sep 25, 2015)

War SM Nardo > Kage Summit MS Sasuke ~ Pein arc SM Naruto


Both have high level techniques from opposing sides of the elemental spectrum capable of one-shotting (not buying Susano'o tanking FRS). Sasuke holds a distinct advantage with his new found proficiency in Blaze Release, so my money is him. 

Naruto couldn't feasibly handle Amaterastu until he mastered his Kyuubi Shunshin, whereas Sasuke could possibly dodge FRS if he's smart and doesn't camp inside Susano'o.

This all assuming Sasuke chooses _not_ to rush in like a raging retard only to get his neck snapped. Fortunately for him, he did less of that once his Mangekyo powers developed.


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## Arles Celes (Sep 26, 2015)

Portrayal wise they were even...though by the time Sasuke had V3 Susanoo his eyesight was going rather bad.

He might experience what he did when he unlocked V4 Susanoo and get blurry eyes which would be all that Naruto would need to win.

Though if Ma and Pa are being summoned from the start along with 3 boss frogs as well then it would be clearly too much for Sasuke.

One-on-one with Sasuke's eyesight being fixed to perfect condition while having V3 Susanoo and Naruto not having back up summoned from the go the battle could go either way.


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## t0xeus (Sep 26, 2015)

Death Arcana said:


> I think portrayal-wise, they were even and would have both died if their kage summit selves fought.



Yeah, because Sasuke was after almost whole day fighting, on the other hand Naruto was completely fresh and ready to fight him.

If it was Kage Summit Naruto vs Kage Summit Sasuke, Sasuke would still be able to win in at least 7/10.


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## Kor (Sep 27, 2015)

Well if they have full manga knowledge of each other Naruto would be wary of Amatersu and Tsukiyomi.

His best choice would be to create a dust cloud with Rasengan as cover then create a swarm of clones to occupy Sasuke while he preps SM and the clones give feedback on Sasuke's MS prowess.

KS Naruto showed impressive speed saving Sakura from KS Sasuke, despite the latter's exhausted state. Other then his brief CQC confrontation with Pain and then Samui's squad he has almost no base speed and taijutsu feats up to that point what with Sasuke hogging most of the spotlight.

SM Naruto is on a completely other dimension in terms of taijutsu ability and overall power. I highly doubt Susano in it's developmental stages is going to tank a Sage Art: Rasenshuriken or Sage Art: Ultra Big Ball Rasengan. Especially if he forms the latter while blitzing like Jiraiya did against Pain when the former is slower then Naruto.

He would need to keep his distance while fighting unless he flanks or comes from the rear, but he doesn't have to make physical contact at all to hit him with taijutsu when he's got natural energy to do it for him. Or even use his clones to fight for him

If summons are in play Naruto counters Sasuke boss level with his own while Naruto can also summon Ma and Pa and let them prep Frog Song which would be GG.

If they both start in MS and SM respectively then...lol Sasuke gets murked.


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## ShadoLord (Sep 27, 2015)

Tobi and Zetsu kinda implied that Naruto>Sasuke at that time though, where Sasuke just gotten his MS and Naruto learning his SM. If it's after Danzo fight Sasuke vs SM Naruto at Pain invasion arc, then Sasuke wins more often than not.


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## Icegaze (Sep 27, 2015)

Sasuke more than likely wins 
Amaterasu and susanoo arrows would be tough for naruto to get through unharmed 

Also bar FRS that isn't quick to launch naruto doesn't have anything that can breach susanoo


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2015)

Also Sasuke can just hit FRS with his arrows and detonate it preemptively. His arrows are certainly faster than FRS.


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## Bonly (Sep 27, 2015)

IMO I'd say to make a long story short Naruto has the tools to get through Susanoo and fuck up Sasuke in CQC but Sasuke has to tools to land a fatal if Naruto has a miss step/doesn't play the perfect game or when he runs out of SM after five minutes or two uses of FRS.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2015)

Sasuke has the advantage, but the fight may end up as a tie.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 27, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Also Sasuke can just hit FRS with his arrows and detonate it preemptively. His arrows are certainly faster than FRS.



Why would Sasuke's arrows pre-emptively detonate Rasenshuriken 

They don't have much penetrative destructive capacity behind them, whereas Rasenshuriken was chopping up *kilometers of rock* across the Chibaku Tensei crater when Naruto threw it at Pain.

It didn't even lose any momentum across all 20 kilometers of the crater while going through countless boulders.

If anything, the arrows gets sliced in half and at best deflect the Rasenshuriken, but that's irrelevant as Naruto can remotely detonate the projectile with its expansion trick, which Sasuke will never see coming.

If Rasenshuriken hits Susanoo in any form, Sasuke is finished.


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## Crow (Sep 27, 2015)

Sennin Mode Naruto is going to win Mid to High Diff

He can summon his frogs as shields while he creates a couple of shadow clones and uses Rasenshuriken...
AS A FEINT
Then he charges up a rasengan and runs at Sasuke when the Rasenshuriken is coming at sasuke
When sasuke dodges the rasenshuriken even if he sees naruto coming it will be too late to stop him
Naruto wins.


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## t0xeus (Sep 27, 2015)

Knight of Chaos said:


> bs blablabla bs


Naruto IC is NOT using frogs as shield.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Why would Sasuke's arrows pre-emptively detonate Rasenshuriken


Why wouldn't it ? 



> They don't have much penetrative destructive capacity behind them, whereas Rasenshuriken was chopping up *kilometers of rock* across the Chibaku Tensei crater when Naruto threw it at Pain.
> 
> It didn't even lose any momentum across all 20 kilometers of the crater while going through countless boulders.


 20 kilometers ? lets leave OBD out of this.



> If anything, the arrows gets sliced in half and at best deflect the Rasenshuriken, but that's irrelevant as Naruto can remotely detonate the projectile with its expansion trick, which Sasuke will never see coming.


At the very worst case the arrow fucks up its trajectory or weakens it or stops it.



> If Rasenshuriken hits Susanoo in any form, Sasuke is finished.



What ? No. 
There is absolutely no reason to believe that FRs can destroy V2 Susano'o and above. 
If Naruto was confident in its ability he would just Hit Madara's Susano'o with FRS instead of waiting for Gaara to take him out of it.
That is kishimoto telling you that FRS wouldn't do the trick.
I guess he needs to write it down in big and bold letters for you to get the message.


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## Mercurial (Sep 27, 2015)

Danzo's Fuuton jutsu enpowered by Baku's suction opened Sasuke's V3 Susanoo. I really don't think that is more powerful than SM enhanced Rasenshuriken.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2015)

Danzo's attack > SM FRS. 

That attack created negative pressure and manipulated aspects of physics to give itself an greater penetrating advantage, FRS doesn't do that. FRS is more AOE damage and not precise either.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 27, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Why wouldn't it ?
> 
> Because it lacks feats to suggest that it can?
> 
> ...


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2015)

Sandaime Raikage's hell stab is B rank. And it completely fucked his own shit up whereas S rank FRS didn't do shit to him.

And yes, I believe Danzo's technique can be pound per pound more damaging than Naruto's FRS. Going by feats, it is. What is the most durable target FRS destroyed ?

Unless you bring evidence, there is absolutely no reason to assume that FRS can destroy V2 Susano'o and onwards.

edit : outdoing 25 of Jiraiya's technique doesn't mean FRS is the shit. It means, Jiraiya's technique is shit. FYI.

edit  2 : The exchange between Gaara and Naruto isn't that important. End result is, Kishimoto is telling you that FRS wouldn't do the trick.


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## Icegaze (Sep 28, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Why would Sasuke's arrows pre-emptively detonate Rasenshuriken
> 
> They don't have much penetrative destructive capacity behind them, whereas Rasenshuriken was chopping up *kilometers of rock* across the Chibaku Tensei crater when Naruto threw it at Pain.
> 
> ...



Indra arrow did detonate 2 BD FRS didn't it or either way FRS of sorts 

Don't see why this would be different 

Also Amaterasu trolls FRS hard , it just becomes more Enton for sasuke to use 

Worse deva avoided it easily . No reason sasuke can't

And lastly susanoo V4 was in the immediate blast range of BD,FRS and YM. So doubt FRS is gonna breach and kill sasuke or harm him at all


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## Crow (Sep 29, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> Naruto IC is NOT using frogs as shield.



They would get out of the way before he threw it. He did it in the Pein arc and he used them as shields. Shit one even swallowed one of the six paths.


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

swallowing pain isnt the same as using them as shields
scans f him using them as shields please


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## Marsala (Sep 29, 2015)

Sasuke wins. Naruto needs the Kyuubi's power to compete equally against MS Sasuke.


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## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

SM Naruto wins. Lol at RS not busting Susanoo open when an inferior Futon did  Wank at its best.


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

feel free to prove its superior 

hilarious wank when u forget enton trolls FRS for the lolz


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## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

More like you feel free to prove how a b-rank jutsu is superior to an s-rank powered by natural energy which can damage Kurama :rofl

Yeah, like it trolled Danzo's futons


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

explain how naruto can pin down sasuke susanoo then fire FRS at it

cuz if he just throws it, its met with enton

like how KCM naruto COFRS turned into a huge enton ball when met with sasuke enton arrow

FRS will never touch sasuke at all. he entons that shit while having a laugh

then again i didnt know deva path was faster than sasuke


@davizwiz i dont blame you

need scan of enton trolling FRS? i can provide that. now can u provide FRS trollign susanoo?


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

ps: hitting the back of an exposed susanoo =/= hitting the front of susanoo

when u have to get through the shield and the 3 layers. 

then again i wonder what fictional way people have invented for naruto to pin down sasuke then fire FRS


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## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> explain how naruto can pin down sasuke susanoo then fire FRS at it
> 
> cuz if he just throws it, its met with enton
> 
> ...



Yeah, when you show me all those scans of Sasuke intercepting Danzo's futons with Enton, I'll consider it.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 29, 2015)

> @davizwiz i dont blame you
> 
> need scan of enton trolling FRS? i can provide that. now can u provide FRS trollign susanoo?


Lmao Enton couldn't even troll gourd sand 

Fuck outta here

FRS flies through that shit like 747 wake vs. a candle and WRECKTS that Susano


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## t0xeus (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


> SM Naruto wins. Lol at RS not busting Susanoo open when an inferior Futon did  Wank at its best.



Naruto isn't hitting FRS on MS Sasuke.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 29, 2015)

Shadow Shuriken trick Rasenshuriken-style would utterly fuck up Sasuke.


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Lmao Enton couldn't even troll gourd sand
> 
> Fuck outta here
> 
> FRS flies through that shit like 747 wake vs. a candle and WRECKTS that Susano



Like it did fly through sasuke Enton arrow when they both aimed at juubi
 the trolling is real 

@ the other guy . I just need those scans of Naruro being able to pin down sasuke to aim at his back 

Hilarious posts truly


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

@tasty
You mean the trick sasuke uses as well ? 

That trick he knows all too well 

That trick that both deva and Itachi didn't fall for 

Yh so far no dojutsu has fallen for it 

Headless and baseless assumption on ur part


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 29, 2015)

> Like it did fly through sasuke Enton arrow when they both aimed at juubi
> the trolling is real


You mean EMS Sasuke, right? With 50x the size of Enton & Enton Susano weaponry, correct?

This is MS Sasuke pal, small ass Enton with no Enton Susano Weaponry = FRS bulls through anything he attempts to put up against it and destroys him 

Read the OP.


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

You also mean KCm naruto with 50 times the size of the FRS this version could throw 

Hahaha bias much


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

U mean the naruto whose rasengan was also 50 times the size of the one this version can throw 

Also Enton Flames with no manipulation already came in contact with FRS . It just turned to Enton 

The attack on juubito was exactly that 

Nice try


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 29, 2015)

Nope, SM Expansion FRS [1] makes his human-sized Enton it's bitch, bulls through it and hits his Susano, erasing it.

All this irrelevant to the fact that Ma's Dust Cloud = blindside FRS in cloud = destroyed Susano and Sasuke without him even noticing it


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## t0xeus (Sep 29, 2015)

Holy, this thread is still going on, you need some animal-level arguments to keep this alive.

MS Sasuke is automatically using Amaterasu when he sees Naruto forming so much chakra and pressure around him, he's not an amateur for godsake.

And even if Naruto somehow tricks him with Kage Bunshin, Sasuke is still at worst dodging direct hit and survives the blast, or just snipes Naruto when he tries to throw it.


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## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> You call him a troll but you absolutely have nothing to back up with you just said. Ironically that makes you the troll.



To back what up? That SM FRS >>>Danzo's futon?  Bitch, please.


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Nope, SM Expansion FRS [1] makes his human-sized Enton it's bitch, bulls through it and hits his Susano, erasing it.
> 
> All this irrelevant to the fact that Ma's Dust Cloud = blindside FRS in cloud = destroyed Susano and Sasuke without him even noticing it



Again u attempting to hilarious refute the fact that both times FRS has come in contact with Enton it was swallowed up 

It can expand all it wants that's ur fan fic . It wouldn't change the fact that it would just cause more Enton 

Got 2 scans to show Enton surpasses FRS 3 if u count cerebrus feat 

2 scans that show shadow shiruken tech won't do Shit to a dojutsu weilder

Provide one simple scan please that suggests anything u have claimed just 1 page . For anything u can provide I'll counter with 3 scans


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## t0xeus (Sep 29, 2015)

And if you aren't going to admit that Susanoo protects him against the blast, then there's no point arguing.

As Icegaze ( I believe it was him ) already said, Madara had to be dragged from his Susanoo before Naruto threw the FRS.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


> To back what up? That SM FRS >>>Danzo's futon?  Bitch, please.



How are you any different than him when you have nothing to back up what you said, bitch ? 

For starters, lets remind all the mindless FRS wankers out there that Sandaime Raikage's B rank Nukite completely fucked his own shit up, while FRS did absolutely nothing to him.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

B rank Nuikte > S FRS 

Keep up with the manga.


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## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> *How are you any different than him* when you have nothing to back up what you said, bitch ?
> 
> For starters, lets remind all the mindless FRS wankers out there that Sandaime Raikage's B rank Nukite completely fucked his own shit up, while FRS did absolutely nothing to him.



Different than who?You retards claiming that Danzo's futon > FRS? Because I use logic and reason of course. 

Uchiha wank started again since I left, I see.

Next thing wwe know they'll start again with the amaterasu GG and Tsukuyomi GG threads of old


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## Icegaze (Sep 29, 2015)

Despite FRS elemental advantage as well 
Didn't do shit

Twice FRS has come in contact with Enton

Anyone need scans to remember what happened ?


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 29, 2015)

FRS deactivated the Raiton Cloak and cracked the fuck out of his body

Put that same cloak on Konohamaru- throw FRS at him- he literally vanishes


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## t0xeus (Sep 29, 2015)

Why is it believed that FRS means certain death against a person using Susanoo?

It didn't even kill Kakuzu who took a direct hit, zzz..


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 29, 2015)

> Why is it believed that FRS means certain death against a person using Susanoo?
> 
> It didn't even kill Kakuzu who took a direct hit, zzz..


Expansion Senjutsu Rasenshuriken hitting&deonating at supersonic speed >>>>>>>>>>>>> KN0 Rasenshuriken hand delivered at 0mph


----------



## t0xeus (Sep 29, 2015)

Prove that the speed, natural energy and the detonation affects its damage on one target, the main benefit of SM FRS was that it's ranged so it doesn't damage Naruto and the expansion thing was for AOE, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> But the thing is, *we retards are just using the manga as a base to our argument.*
> On the other hand, you retards are just wanking without anything substantial.
> FRS is strong hurr durr.
> 
> Wanking can't be logical, but I'll let you amuse me with your "logic and reason"  Please, go ahead and explain.



Indeed? Which part of the manga shows that Danzo's futon >FRS? Go ahead and explain. Let me guess, you're going to pull out some circular reasoning.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


> Indeed? Which part of the manga shows that Danzo's futon >FRS? Go ahead and explain. Let me guess, you're going to pull out some circular reasoning.



You make the claim that FRS is stronger than Danzo's fuuton.

I don't have to show anything. You made the claim, burden of proof is on you.

And before you attemtp to use bullshit arguments like "Danzo's fuuton is B-rank", let me remind you that Chidori is A rank and it didn't even properly penetrate A who isn't as durable as his father while the B rank Nukite completely annihilated Sandaime.
Same example with FRS vs Nukite. Rank =/= power.

Come on, I am pretty sure you have a solid argument based on manga evidence that can properly explain why FRS can destroy Susano'O.


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> You make the claim that FRS is stronger than Danzo's fuuton.
> 
> I don't have to show anything. You made the claim, burden of proof is on you.
> 
> ...



Did you miss the part when I mentioned that FRS hurt Kurama? Plus it has a bigger AoE, thus its damage feats are greater than Danzo's futon. It's pretty simple. 

Want more? Go ahead and entertain yourself with that thread, you'll find plenty of evidence there.



Now answer my question.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 29, 2015)

With all due respect no one has to prove FRS is better than any wind technique in the manga

On the contrary, it's the complete opposite 

FRS moves and hits at super sonic+ speeds, it's empowered by Natural Energy that allowed a normal Rasengan to bleed a Juubi Jin, and there is a large Odama Rasengan that dwarfs the size of a man in the middle of it which explodes once the wind waves that are moving faster than a helicopter's blades hits the target at supersonic speed

If you need detailed scans explaining why that technique is superior to simple sharpened wind waves that are so slow Danzo could spit multiples of them at once before the first could travel 20m you are a moron


----------



## Braiyan (Sep 29, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> Why is it believed that FRS means certain death against a person using Susanoo?
> 
> It didn't even kill Kakuzu who took a direct hit, zzz..



FRS killed Kakuzu twice and left him so damaged he couldn't move ...


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> With all due respect no one has to prove FRS is better than any wind technique in the manga
> 
> On the contrary, it's the complete opposite
> 
> ...



But I thought it was clear already that we were dealing with morons here. That's why I provided proof, I don't want to leave these poor souls lost in the darkness. Since apparently hype and portrayal aren't enough for them, it's a good thing the manga provides enough feats  and power scaling to completely debunk their assertions, too.


----------



## Bonly (Sep 29, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> Why is it believed that FRS means certain death against a person using Susanoo?
> 
> It didn't even kill Kakuzu who took a direct hit, zzz..



Actually it was said by Obito that Kakuzu lost two heart after being hit by FRS IIRC so that means Kakuzu got killed twice and not only that but Kakuzu got hit by FRS which was only completed about 50 percent as Yamawho said and it wasn't enhanced by Senjutsu. If a non complete one can kill someone twice then it's not hard to believe that a completely one ehanced by senjutsu could possible kill a Susanoo user though personally I'd say that depends on which level of Susanoo is being used.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


> "Nananana, I don't like the feats that debunk my argument so I'll act like they don't matter" Grow up dude
> 
> Because everyone is allowed to post here. You should be thankful of that fact, considering the level of your arguments.



Hurting Kurama isn't a feat, especially when you consider it did no damage other than messing up its fur, It just proves that FRS is stronger than Odaama rasengan and nothing more.

Having bigger AOE means jackshit. Sandaime's nukite has the aoe of a finger, and it is shitloads more penetrative than FRS.
Sasuke's chidori blade sliced Madara in half like hot knife through butter, while the God Tree cutting YRS wasn't able to, even when Madara was in an extremely weakened state.

Rank =/= Power
AOE =/= Power

Not that your "arugments"(lol) are gone, what are you going to fall back on ? Insults ? Go ahead, I'm fine with that. It'll get you banned faster and 1 less trash to deal with.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 29, 2015)

Correction, FRS is stronger than 25+ Senpo Odama Rasengan [1] [2] 

[3] [4] [5]

Initial FRS weakening Kurama to the point of his arm collapsing:
[1] [2]


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> *Hurting Kurama isn't a feat.* It just proves that FRS is stronger than Odaama rasengan and nothing more.







> Having bigger AOE means jackshit. *Sandaime's nukite has the aoe of a finger*, and it is shitloads more penetrative than FRS.



Indeed? Is that why it created a huge ass explosion and destroyed several rock walls?





> Sasuke's chidori blade sliced Madara in half like hot knife through butter, while the God Tree cutting YRS wasn't able to, even when Madara was in an extremely weakened state.



Great, then that's a durability feat for Madara. So?



> Rank =/= Power
> AOE =/= Power



Lol, nope.

<snip>


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


>


What other techniques failed to make Kurama scream like a girl and failed to do any damage besides Odaama rasengan ? 




> Indeed? Is that why it created a huge ass explosion and destroyed several rock walls?



[2]



> Great, then that's a durability feat for Madara. So?


He is durable enough to Tank YRS but not Sasuke's Chidori blade which is much smaller in AOE ? 



> Lol, nope.


I just proved it is. But let me rub that on your face one more time.

B rank Nukite > S Rank FRS, A rank Chidori

Sasuke's Chidori blade has infinitely smaller AOE than YRS but it sliced Madara in half while YRS couldn't.
Nukite has extremely small AOE compared to FRS and yet it destroyed Sandaime while FRS did only superficial damage.

<snip>


----------



## Hachibi (Sep 29, 2015)

I don't get how hurting Kurama isn't a feat. 

I mean, scaling form Hachibi it should be able to take it's own BD to the face without much damage.


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> What other techniques failed to make Kurama scream like a girl and failed to do any damage besides Odaama rasengan ?



I'm sure you can answer that question yourself by rereading when Kurama attacked Konoha, Madara vs Hashirama, etc. And in your own post you have already accepted that Kurama being hurt by it is indeed a feat (by accepting it puts it above Senpo Odaama Rasengan, so yeah... bipolar much?




> [2]



And? What, is it supposed to destroy the air when there are no other materials around or something? 



> He is durable enough to Tank YRS but not Sasuke's Chidori blade which is much smaller in AOE ?



Sasuke's chidori blade that can cut the moon you mean?



> I just proved it is. But let me rub that on your face one more time.
> 
> B rank Nukite > S Rank FRS, A rank Chidori
> 
> ...



No, I'm afraid you didn't. Try again. AoE was, is and always will be useful when comparing attacks, even if it's not the only thing that matters. And nothing you say will change that.





> I was just being polite, you didn't have arguments in the first place.
> But yes, those things you held on to as your "arguments" are also debunked.
> 
> So again, where is the reason and logic here ?
> ...



<snip>

Now stop beating around the bush and show how Danzo's futon is > FRS, I'm still waiting.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Danzo's fuuton sliced Open V3 Susano'O's back.

FRS has no comparable feats.


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Danzo's fuuton sliced Open V3 Susano'O's back.
> 
> FRS has no comparable feats.



Indeed, FRS is not comparable, it has better feats. See I knew you were going to pull out circular reasoning, you're so predictable 



Pirao said:


> Indeed? Which part of the manga shows that Danzo's futon >FRS? Go ahead and explain. Let me guess, you're going to pull out some circular reasoning.


----------



## Hachibi (Sep 29, 2015)

Assuming his Pain-Arc self can do it, didn't COFRS destroy Hashi's Mokuryu?


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


> Indeed, FRS is not comparable, it has better feats. See I knew you were going to pull out circular reasoning, you're so predictable


At least I have some reasoning, unlike you.

Better feats like what ?

What is the most durable thing FRS destroyed ?


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> At least I have some reasoning, unlike you.
> 
> Better feats like what ?
> 
> What is the most durable thing FRS destroyed ?



No, you don't, circular reasoning is faulty reasoning, do I have to explain even that? 

Like hurting Kurama, for example. You know, Kurama, the strongest bijuu? Whose avatar can withstand a juubi laser without flinching? Yeah, that thing.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


> No, you don't, circular reasoning is faulty reasoning, do I have to explain even that?
> 
> Like hurting Kurama, for example. You know, Kurama, the strongest bijuu? Whose avatar can withstand a juubi laser without flinching? Yeah, that thing.



How does hurting Kurama(nothing substantial) and messing up his fur is a better feat than slicing open V3 Susano'o ? 

Tell me you aren't serious and this is just a poor attempt @ trolling.


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> How does hurting Kurama(nothing substantial) and messing up his fur is a better than slicing open V3 Susano'o ?
> 
> *Tell me you aren't serious and this is just a poor attempt @ trolling.*



Because Kurama's durability>>>>V3 Susano'o.

If that helps you sleep at night.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


> Because Kurama's durability>>>>V3 Susano'o.
> 
> If that helps you sleep at night.



But FRS did no damage to Kurama.


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> But FRS did no damage to Kurama.





Yeah, that's why Kurama fell to the ground and was unable to prevent Naruto from pulling out his chakra while affected by it.

Grasp at straws more.

FRS >> Danzo's Futon, it doesn't matter how much you cry about it, I'm afraid.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 29, 2015)

Wow Kurama fell to the ground ?

Ok I'm done here. Its pretty obvious that you are trolling.


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Wow Kurama fell to the ground ?
> 
> Ok I'm done here. Its pretty obvious that you are trolling.



It's pretty obvious that your position is undefensible and you're just looking for a way out to save face. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.


----------



## Hachibi (Sep 29, 2015)

Pirao said:


> Yeah, that's why Kurama fell to the ground and was unable to prevent Naruto from pulling out his chakra while affected by it.
> 
> Grasp at straws more.
> 
> FRS >> Danzo's Futon, it doesn't matter how much you cry about it, I'm afraid.



No. Kurama fell to the ground because Naruto superplex'd it.


----------



## Pirao (Sep 29, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> No. Kurama fell to the ground because Naruto superplex'd it.



The 1st time. I was talking about this one 

Not that it makes a difference, it still hurt Kurama after he was tossed to the ground and allowed Naruto to extract its chakra, which was the main point.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Sep 29, 2015)

Debate civilly, please.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 29, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> No. Kurama fell to the ground because Naruto superplex'd it.


He fell upon both initial releases, after the first time he fell initially he tried to hold himself up after the FRS was over, and his arm collapsed [1], which prompted Naruto to say "He's weak! This is my chance!"

After this, he couldn't react to anything Naruto came at him with, a group of clones came right at him and hit him with another 25 SCOR right in the chest and face and then he was blitzed by another FRS right in his chest after he recovered from the SCOR and was on all fours 

Prior to this, he reacted to SM Naruto's initial SCOR blocking it with tail and Naruto needed to throw him down to hit him with the FRS. After that FRS hit, he had no problem coming right at him and hitting him with everything right in his chest in clear view 

That initial FRS clearly fucked him up to the point where he couldn't even defend himself from frontal attacks


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> FRS deactivated the Raiton Cloak and cracked the fuck out of his body
> 
> Put that same cloak on Konohamaru- throw FRS at him- he literally vanishes



FRS hits cerebrus more heads 
Amaterasu does its gone 

Then again it's not like Amaterasu already hasn't forced a ration cloak user to cut their arm off 

Sandaime would do the same . He can't tank it


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

actually FRS should destroy V3 
Sadly for naruto Enton still trolls


----------



## Pirao (Sep 30, 2015)

All those Danzo Futons that Sasuke intercepted with Enton


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

all those people who naruto hit with FRS

and all those times FRS defeated enton..oh wait that never happened did it


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 30, 2015)

Lmao still arguing with Enton that has no chance of stopping expansion FRS, shit bulls through it with ease even if he reacts and fires away with it


----------



## Trojan (Sep 30, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> *all those people who naruto hit with FRS*



1- Kurama
2- 3rd Raikage
3- Human path
4- Kakuzu
5- Kaguya
6- Madara

Mini FRS hit the huge zetsu as well. 



> and all those times FRS defeated enton..oh wait that never happened did it



Enton that couldn't even handle the Rassengan will handle FRS? 

his most powerful TBB. 

Sounds legit.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Lmao still arguing with Enton that has no chance of stopping expansion FRS, shit bulls through it with ease even if he reacts and fires away with it



 when scans say otherwise

wonder how expanding would make it any different from the COFRS that enton consumed


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

Hussain said:


> 1- Kurama
> 2- 3rd Raikage
> 3- Human path
> 4- Kakuzu
> ...



yet enton swallowed up FRS twice. do u need the scans?


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 30, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> when scans say otherwise
> 
> wonder how expanding would make it any different from the COFRS that enton consumed


What are you talking about man?

MS Sasuke's Enton didn't even stop Raikage's arm, you are literally making no sense



> yet enton swallowed up FRS twice. do u need the scans?


What the fuck? When did MS Sasuke's Enton swallow up FRS?


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> What are you talking about man?
> 
> MS Sasuke's Enton didn't even stop Raikage's arm, you are literally making no sense
> 
> What the fuck? When did MS Sasuke's Enton swallow up FRS?



 
please read the juubito fight again

a little bit of enton violated FRS and turned it into more enton 

i love the distinction, is EMS enton a different enton? he can use it more freely sure but it isnt a different enton 

anywayz KCM naruto FRS>>>>>>>>SM naruto FRS so dont get ur cheap point

if u need scans ask 

his most powerful TBB. 

notice that little bit of enton turned the entire FRS to nothing more than enton


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

Sorry so u are saying the properties of naruto FRS are somehow different if he throws it ?

Cuz he did and again Enton consumed it when it hit juubi 

need to know how naruto apparently letting Enton consume his FRS will be any different if he threw it 

Explain what did naruto do to the FRS? Did he make it weaker ?


----------



## Bonly (Sep 30, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Sorry so u are saying the properties of naruto FRS are somehow different if he throws it ?
> 
> Cuz he did and again Enton consumed it when it hit juubi
> 
> ...



Yamawho said "If you clash a Futon jutsu *of the same level* against Sasuke's Katon jutsu, it'll come back at you large" so basically if both use a jutsu at the same level, Sasuke's jutsu would win. 

So I think that those two are saying that Naruto and Sasuke matched their chakra levels or whatever on purpose when they was fighting Obito which wouldn't be the same case here which means that wouldn't be the same result if some of Sasuke's Enton hit FRS


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

Thank you 
So what stops MS Sasuke from matching SM naruto chakra in this case 
Since EMs could very easily match KCM naruto chakra levels


----------



## Bonly (Sep 30, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Thank you
> So what stops MS Sasuke from matching SM naruto chakra in this case
> Since EMs could very easily match KCM naruto chakra levels



Well Sasuke was able to adjust thanks to his Sharingan so he should be able to do it but if I had to guess I'd say that one might think it's due to Sasuke not making enough Enton in time to get the right amount ready since FRS is pretty darn fast.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

Well Amaterasu is horribly faster than FRS 
So I don't see not having the time ever happening 

I think mostly its trolling tbh


----------



## Arles Celes (Sep 30, 2015)

There was not much for elemental contests in this manga even though at one point Kishi seemed as if he would make a big(ger) deal out of it.

- Kakashi overcoming Kakauzu's doton with his raiton based chidori.

- Sasuke using Danzou's summon wind attack to power his fireball.

- Mei countering Madara's giant katon with her giant suiton.

- Sasuke matching Naruto's 2 strongest fuuton based attack with his strongest raiton.

At one point I though that Naruto would learn suitons to counter Sasuke's Amaterasu but in the Hachibi fight it seemed as even diving into water cannot quench Amaterasu as Hachibi found out.

Edo Hiruzen elemental attacks clashing with Spiral Zetsu's Shinsenju was rather cool I think.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

Why won't Sasuke have time ? His amaterasu is faster and FRS is slow enough for deva to easily react 

So Sasuke has ample time to Amaterasu it . And simply control the Enton


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Sep 30, 2015)

I don't think Icegaze is understanding how Enton stopping Rasenshuriken makes little sense to begin with. Fire doesn't stop wind, fire is _enhanced_ with wind. But Rasenshuriken is a solid projectile that slices through kilometers of rock whereas Amaterasu is just a very hot flame.

Even if Sasuke managed to set Rasenshuriken on fire in time, the shuriken would simply be enhanced, because that's what wind would do: complement fire. All Sasuke would achieve would be a more deadly technique heading his way.

Does anybody have any evidence whatsoever of Enton havig physical substance? Sasuke's Susanoo Kagatsuchi didn't knock aside Chō Ōdama Rasenshuriken, it merely enhanced it. The same arrow didn't punch aside the chakra rods launched from Obito's body, the rods stopped the arrow dead in its tracks.

Amaterasu, Enton or not, *lacks physical substance*. Rasenshuriken would go right through it as per physics and hit Sasuke, who would be busy recovering from using the technique.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 30, 2015)

It won't stop it 
It would just turn it to Enton and travel towards Sasuke which results in Nothing

Both times Enton touched FRS it simply turned into more Enton . Please back up your assumptions with scans 

When has FRS come in contact with Enton and kept the properties of FRS and didnt just plow through it 

Enton obviously has substance. 

Enton control simply shapes it into different objects . That's it . Doesn't make it any more or less solid


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 30, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> please read the juubito fight again
> 
> a little bit of enton violated FRS and turned it into more enton
> 
> ...


Dude, you continue to refer to EMS Sasuke's feats, who is by and large infinitely more powerful than MS Sasuke.

They aren't even remotely comparable, even his own physical speed increased drastically.

Let me make this clear, MS Sasuke cannot manipulate Enton larger than the size of an average man, and he cannot use his Susano to transcend the power of his Enton. 

Enton that is not larger than the size of a man has a *0%* chance, I repeat, a *0%* chance of stopping FRS or expansion FRS, it literally flies right through it.

Here we have MS Sasuke's Enton feats:
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

Now, please explain in detail how Enton that is run-through by Raikage's arm while he was stationary (no momentum) and is blocked with a fraction of Gaara's gourd sand twice- is somehow capable of stopping Expansion FRS.


----------



## Arles Celes (Sep 30, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I don't think Icegaze is understanding how Enton stopping Rasenshuriken makes little sense to begin with. Fire doesn't stop wind, fire is _enhanced_ with wind. But Rasenshuriken is a solid projectile that slices through kilometers of rock whereas Amaterasu is just a very hot flame.
> 
> Even if Sasuke managed to set Rasenshuriken on fire in time, the shuriken would simply be enhanced, because that's what wind would do: complement fire. All Sasuke would achieve would be a more deadly technique heading his way.
> 
> ...



[5]

But if that was the case why would Yamato say that Naruto's Futon would come back at him as an even stronger Katon rather than just "overpower" Sasuke's attack and become stronger to boot? It would hardly be something to worry and it would make no sense it the affinity scale.

Kishi could simply make Fuuton stronger than Katon and give the Katon advantage over something other than Fuuton but did not do so.

And if we dismiss this then why would a Raiton not overpower a Wind attack? After all how does wind exactly dissipate lighting? Especially a focused projectile?

As for Enton, Sasuke did cut in half a Boss sized Jubling with it and cut into pieces Kaguya's ice.
[5]

How could non-solid fire cut someone in half anyway?


----------



## Bonly (Sep 30, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Well Amaterasu is horribly faster than FRS
> So I don't see not having the time ever happening
> 
> I think mostly its trolling tbh



The speed of Ama isn't the same speed as Enton which is what they and you was talking about which is why the might think that Enton might not be fast enough to stop FRS.


----------



## I Blue I (Sep 30, 2015)

second

But Enton is as fast as FRS, isn't it? We see that both techniques made contact simultaneously.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

Bonly said:


> The speed of Ama isn't the same speed as Enton which is what they and you was talking about which is why the might think that Enton might not be fast enough to stop FRS.



He can use Amaterasu then Enton control the flames that appear in his LoS into a spike 

Considering he could easily does this as a newb pretty sure he can here 

After all it's his other eye ability 

Really it's just trolling when u imagine on 2 separate occasions Enton swallowed up FRS


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Dude, you continue to refer to EMS Sasuke's feats, who is by and large infinitely more powerful than MS Sasuke.
> 
> They aren't even remotely comparable, even his own physical speed increased drastically.
> 
> ...



I am looking at EMs Sasuke and comparing his feats to KCM naruto who by his own admission is horribly superior to SM naruto 

So how don't the 2 relate . Strong Enton swallowed stronger FRS

Why won't weaker Enton swallow weaker FRS

As I recall raikage lost his hand , it caught fire 

Same thing happens to FRS. No scans to suggest anything else 

Or are u trying to claim SM naruto in that arc could remotely compare to KCM naruto 


Human size Enton is all he needs . Forms the Amaterasu into a spike , it hits that and voila more Enton for Sasuke to use 

Sasuje has made Amaterasu the size of hachibi face . Clearly bigger than human size


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

Ps : Amaterasu is obviously a solid object as is Enton seeing that it repelled gaara sand 

No reasons a floating Enton can't be formed into a spike anywayz 

And u are hilariously dishonest . Go look at the size of the amstersu used against hachibi and get back to me

[5]

 that's loads and loads bigger than the apparent feats you mention davizwiz

Now go on and claim he can't control it . And I'll remind u, Him quenching the fire is him controlling it . So no issues with the amount of Enton here 

Or is there still some fictional issue ?

Amaterasu is Enton . His other eye controls that .


----------



## Ghoztly (Oct 1, 2015)

Pretty sure Sasuke was manipulating the black flames during the Kage summit. That can't even be denied. I actually forgot all about this.

This fight just got more difficult for Naruto.


----------



## David (Oct 1, 2015)

MS Sasuke should win.

SM Naruto has a speed advantage, but Pain was able to react to and keep up with his speed in CQC just fine, so Sasuke should react well against SM Naruto as well.

I made a thread ages ago about how SM Naruto should hypothetically have good Genjutsu defense since Nin/Tai/Gen were stated by Pa to get a significant boost  _[/COLOR][/I], but I think Kishi forgot about it because it never happened so I wouldn't bet on SM Naruto being able to counter Sasuke's Tsukiyomi, even though it should be somewhat possible imo because of the canonical statement about SM boosts.  Perhaps it could go either way because MS Sasuke was still a noob with Tsukiyomi.

But SM Naruto can't really counter Amaterasu unless he has knowledge about how it works beforehand.  He could potentially sense it happening like Juubito did and react by Shunshining around at sage speeds, but he might be too unaware of what the chakra building in Sasuke's left eye means.

Ironically, I would feel most sure about SM Naruto's ability to dodge Susanoo's arrow because SM Kabuto did it and I would grant SM Naruto roughly the same raw speed as him (and who could forget the crazy distance he covered in an instant, when he blitzed a distracted Demon Realm).

And then RasenShuriken might get hard countered by Amaterasu.  Basically, Naruto's ability to pull through greatly depends on whether or not he can pull off counters that we're not sure he is even capable of.

On the topic of raw power, SM Naruto wins over but MS Sasuke just has too much haxx to answer for.

Before, I would have put SM Naruto above MS Sasuke, but now I kind of see a comparison of Naruto and Sasuke like this:

Beginning of Timeskip Sasuke would low-diff Beginning of Timeskip Naruto - that much was obvious.

Naruto's training from that point until his status in this match-up consisted of wind training, fighting Kakuzu, and Sage training.

In the meanwhile, [I]the Sasuke who was greatly above Naruto[/I] had near-death experiences against Orochimaru, Deidara, Itachi, Killer Bee, and A and attained the MS.

= Shonen "Saiyan near-death-experiences" powerup minus Orochimaru/CS2 powers but in addition to MS haxx

As you can see, Naruto had a lot of catching up to do and had to keep up with Sasuke's growth in experience and attaining the MS, so his getting WTF Sage Mode was a boost that wasn't so much overkill as it was necessary to keep up with a person who was way above his level.  If anything, Sage Mode at that point felt like Kishi's answer to making Naruto complete shit at the beginning of the Timeskip compared to Sauce._


----------



## KeyofMiracles (Oct 1, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I don't think Icegaze is understanding how Enton stopping Rasenshuriken makes little sense to begin with. Fire doesn't stop wind, fire is _enhanced_ with wind. But Rasenshuriken is a solid projectile that slices through kilometers of rock whereas Amaterasu is just a very hot flame.
> 
> Even if Sasuke managed to set Rasenshuriken on fire in time, the shuriken would simply be enhanced, because that's what wind would do: complement fire. All Sasuke would achieve would be a more deadly technique heading his way.
> 
> ...



Why in the world do people think this? Literally makes zero sense. Mainly because the Manga already proved this wrong. Fire eats Wind and becomes pure flame. When Sasuke's Enton hit Naruto's Chou Oodama Rasenshuriken,* it consumed it and turned to pure flame.* It having physical substance is completely irrelevant as he doesn't need to knock it away to counter it when his own flame can't hurt him due to his ability to control it at will, or Susanoo.

Why would the Shuriken be enhanced when *wind *enhances fire? Not the other way around. Unless you think a giant ball of Sasuke's Enton is more deadly than FRS, there is no way your point holds.

If FRS is coming towards Sasuke, and he fires a large enough Enton at it, then it becomes flame and is either blocked by Susanoo, or it goes flying right back at Naruto considering Enton can *block *Gaara's Sand, which has a physical form.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

> I am looking at EMs Sasuke and comparing his feats to KCM naruto who by his own admission is horribly superior to SM naruto


EMS Sasuke & KCM Naruto are not in this simulation. 



> So how don't the 2 relate . Strong Enton swallowed stronger FRS


We have the feats of his Enton, it is not powerful enough to stop FRS. 



> Why won't weaker Enton swallow weaker FRS


Why would it? 



> As I recall raikage lost his hand , it caught fire


Indeed, FRS doesn't have hands to lose.



> Same thing happens to FRS. No scans to suggest anything else


FRS loses it's hand? When did it have a hand?

Raikage putting his hand through it and then ribcage Susano means that Enton is worth jack shit. 



> Or are u trying to claim SM naruto in that arc could remotely compare to KCM naruto


What the fuck does KCM Naruto have to do with this simulation?



> Human size Enton is all he needs . Forms the Amaterasu into a spike , it hits that and voila more Enton for Sasuke to use


That spike couldn't even break fraction of gourd sand. Your wank is unbelievable bro 



> Sasuje has made Amaterasu the size of hachibi face . Clearly bigger than human size


Then we're talking about Amaterasu now, not Enton.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> EMS Sasuke & KCM Naruto are not in this simulation.
> 
> We have the feats of his Enton, it is not powerful enough to stop FRS.
> 
> ...



wtf mate u sound slow

amaterasu is bloody enton 

kagutsuchi controls the flame created from his other eye. he creates enton via using amaterasu on whatever he is looking at

talking about wank 

ur the guy who doesnt even know amaterasu is simply an enton related technique

thats straight up retarded. 

FRS has never come in contact with Enton and not turned into enton. fan fic on ur part


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

Funniest bit is since when was it even difficult to avoid when deva has no issues doing so 

4 of the pain paths all with alot less speed feats than sasuke could simply avoid it. 

i mean its really really silly to mention FRS as being an issue at all 


Scans alone suggest sasuke speed and enton abilities render it a waste of time on naruto part. he better of using other rasengan variants


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

> wtf mate u sound slow


Reported. 



> amaterasu is bloody enton


Amaterasu is casted with one eye, the other eye manipulates it, which is Enton. He can't manipulate Amaterasu the size of Hachibi's head, mate



> kagutsuchi controls the flame created from his other eye. he creates enton via using amaterasu on whatever he is looking at


Indeed



> talking about wank


 

From the dude using EMS Sasuke feats for MS Sasuke 



> ur the guy who doesnt even know amaterasu is simply an enton related technique


Enton is manipulation of a small portion of Amaterasu, which is about the size of a man, which cannot stop expansion FRS



> thats straight up retarded.


Reported. 



> FRS has never come in contact with Enton and not turned into enton. fan fic on ur part


Lmao, it literally continued on and exploded on Juubi. 

Again, referring to EMS Sasuke's Enton.

For the remainder of this argument you will not refer to EMS Sasuke's Enton feats or we are done here


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

> DaVizWiz said:
> 
> 
> > Reported.
> ...


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

ps: saying u sound slow isnt an insult...you are slow is an insult. which i cba to say...

just need those FRS overpowering enton scans

i mean ur the guy who is using A feats to suggest FRS ploughs through while critizing me for using EMS sasuke enton feats making a mockery of FRS

i mean if that isnt childish hypocrisy i dont know what is


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## Pirao (Oct 1, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> ps: saying u sound slow isnt an insult...you are slow is an insult. which i cba to say...
> 
> j*ust need those FRS overpowering enton scans*
> 
> ...



Right after you post Sasuke intercepting Danzo's Futons with his Enton. These f*cking dudes 

First they start asking for evidence that FRS is stronger than Danzo's futon when it's something every retard knows and now they don't provide sh*t to back up their claims


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

so are u saying its impossible for enton to intercept FRS?
cuz it already has on panel..not sure i get your point there

are u healthy? like all ok in there?

oh i get it, your logic is danzo = Sm naruto or something right. that they are one and the same person....

didnt know naruto had 10 mins izanagi that would discourage the use of enton 

but ok....i get u 

get well buddy


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

This thread....


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

> and yet he did. or how do u think he quenched the flames? isnt that control


Quenching flames on the body of Karin (size of a woman) & Killer Bee's clone body (size of a man) = ability to manipulate (move, shape shift) bijuu-sized Amaterasu?





>Laughing
>My
>Fucking
>Ass
>Off

[YOUTUBE]C9yxDZfhYbM[/YOUTUBE]


Woo, gotta gather myself after that one. 



Give him a hand people, what a truly magnificent being 

But yeah, we're done here. 

Expansion FRS bulls through Enton that Raikage's arm casually bulled through.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 1, 2015)

This thread is still going ? 

I don't know why enton vs FRS is even debated here. Sasuke without enton can troll FRS, taking over it with enton is just insult to injury.


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> This thread is still going ?
> 
> I don't know why enton vs FRS is even debated here. Sasuke without enton can troll FRS, taking over it with enton is just insult to injury.




The life of a grown fanboy... funny yet tragically sad


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 1, 2015)

Yes, those gifs surely add credibility to your beautiful posts.
Post more


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Yes, those gifs surely add credibility to your beautiful posts.
> Post more


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## Pirao (Oct 1, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> *so are u saying its impossible for enton to intercept FRS?
> cuz it already has on panel*..not sure i get your point there
> 
> are u healthy? like all ok in there?
> ...



Naruto colaborating with Sasuke to make a bigger Enton = MS Sasuke has intercepted FRS on panel 

Seriously, just stop. One idiotic post after another, I'm gonna die laughing eventually.


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

Pirao said:


> Naruto colaborating with Sasuke to make a bigger Enton = MS Sasuke has intercepted FRS on panel
> 
> Seriously, just stop. One idiotic post after another, I'm gonna die laughing eventually.


It's glorious, let's not hold back


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Quenching flames on the body of Karin (size of a woman) & Killer Bee's clone body (size of a man) = ability to manipulate (move, shape shift) bijuu-sized Amaterasu?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 try harder 
Using raikage feats to claim FRS can do the same 


How hilarious 

Wondering how collarborating a jutsu makes FRS weaker in some way 

So why is it that when not collaborating FRS won't catch fire ?
Did naruto make his FRS weaker both times ? During the collaboration ?


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

This is what happen when people ignore manga facts (direct statements) and rely on their fan-fiction.


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

Lol Hussain
What scan shows FRS doing anytbinf other than making Enton become more Enton when the 2 have been in vicinity of one another 

I know u just yanking my chain


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

I am not talking about FRS Vs Enton. 

Fan-fictional scenarios are not going to get anybody any where. 
Everyone will create the scenario that he likes and X character will win base on it, or
they will make Y character forced to act and do everything THEY want them to do. 

As Pirao mentioned if Sasuke will fight that way, then he would have used it against Danzo. Or when the Hebi Sasuke wankers try to say he will do and that, and Kirin blah blah blah, but things do not go like that...

Therefore, the safest thing to do, is to go with whatever the manga/Kishi say. He is not going to give a darn
if X do things that people think it's not in his abilities and so on...

Again, those fan-fictional scenarios ain't going anywhere. That's why no body (almost ever) get convinced. They simply have different scenarios in their mind...

It's the same how Kishi made Sasuke's LIGHTNING arrow to clash with Naruto's WIND FRS, rather than getting redirected and blow Sasuke's ass out
of the earth's face. 

Did he care that Sasuke's attack is base on lighting, and Naruto's attack is based on "Wind" and that Wind > Lightning? 
No, he did not.


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

Or, and I know it can sound crazy to you Hussain, but Indra's Arrow >COFRS +BDRS without the elemental advantage that Wind as over Lightning.

I mean, I'm not saying that it's the case, but it's possible that "hurr hurr Kishi forgot" isn't the only answer.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

So, what stops FRS from being stronger than the Enton without the elemental advantage?


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

Don't ask me.

This isn't my problem. I just came here to correct you


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

Well, thanks for stating the obvious I guess, even tho it did not change or add anything..


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Well, thanks for stating the obvious I guess, even tho it did not change or add anything..



You're welcome 

Also post count


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## Bonly (Oct 1, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> He can use Amaterasu then Enton control the flames that appear in his LoS into a spike
> 
> Considering he could easily does this as a newb pretty sure he can here
> 
> ...



Sure but now you're changing things around, they was talking about Enton as in already made flames being tossed around, the same flames that Gaara's sand could intercept which is likely why they doubt Enton beating FRS so yeah if you feel the need to mention the fast Ama you're kinda agreeing with them.


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## Ghoztly (Oct 1, 2015)

Are people actually thinking FRS (A WIND technique.) is beating a fire technique produced by the Mangekyou Sharingan? 

Please, stop.


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

> Hussain said:
> 
> 
> > I am not talking about FRS Vs Enton.
> ...


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Sure but now you're changing things around, they was talking about Enton as in already made flames being tossed around, the same flames that Gaara's sand could intercept which is likely why they doubt Enton beating FRS so yeah if you feel the need to mention the fast Ama you're kinda agreeing with them.





u do know enton control requires enton to be on the battlefield which is created via amaterasu right

so talking exclusively about enton already on the battlefield is being dishonest and straw grasping


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

@hussain no ninja would fight obito and say gai the same way now woudl they

different people require different methods of fighting 

gai normally would simply go gates and rape, against obito he figured it would bare no fruit so he didnt

does that suddenly mean gai cant use gates anymore?

that logic is very weak. 

sasuke could not use enton and still defend himself with susanoo. which he needed to have up constantly to avoid respawn

against Sm naruto , its entirely necessary since naruto cant blitz him or get behind him at all


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

> anzo=/= naruto. u cant fight very different characters the same way now can u.




So, sasuke did not use it against Danzo who's ENTIRE fighting style is based on the Wind style, but he will
be SO interested in using it against Naruto whose FRS iso only ONE jutsu of his fighting style? 



> naruto characters arent pokemon, they will fight differently depending on the situation


I.E why I said it depends on the scenarios people create, duh? 


> danzo had 10 minute immunity to enton, sasuke used susanoo to attack and defend quickly. he doesnt need to go that way against naruto



So, Sasuke was so concerned to waste his chakra, but for God knows reason he will be interested in hitting
all those clones somehow, that even Kurama couldn't take all of them out at once? 

anyway, I am not going back and fourth. Naruto is the declared stronger fighter, and frankly wether people
accept it or not, their opinions do not matter in the least.


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## Bonly (Oct 1, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> u do know enton control requires enton to be on the battlefield which is created via amaterasu right
> 
> so talking exclusively about enton already on the battlefield is being dishonest and straw grasping



Sasuke can use Enton without using Ama to create the flames. Notice how Sasuke used Ama here and it hit the Samurai. Now those flames stay on the Samurai's armor the rest of the time. Now look at when Sasuke used Enton here. Did he shoot the flames out his eye first then move said flames around Susanoo or did the flames just come on out and surround Susanoo?


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, sasuke did not use it against Danzo who's ENTIRE fighting style is based on the Wind style, but he will
> be SO interested in using it against Naruto whose FRS iso only ONE jutsu of his fighting style?



He actually did use Amat against Danzo, just not against a futon technique.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> He actually did use Amat against Danzo, just not against a futon technique.



Yes, so why would he use it here in that way?

Not as if that matters, we have seen the Rassengan > Amatersu/Enton. 
There is no way in hell is the Amatersu going to deal with FTG.

It's honestly sad that people take this jutsu too seriously.


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Sasuke can use Enton without using Ama to create the flames. Notice how Sasuke used Ama here and it hit the Samurai. Now those flames stay on the Samurai's armor the rest of the time. Now look at when Sasuke used Enton here. Did he shoot the flames out his eye first then move said flames around Susanoo or did the flames just come on out and surround Susanoo?



My point remains the same those flames only exist because of his right eye which created the flames 
He creates the flames via Amaterasu 
All he needs to do is look at anytbinf and create a flame where he wants 

He can then manipulate is as he pleases 

However if there is already Enton on the battlefield then he need not use Amaterasu to create it 

In any case Enton is spammable . And it's speed can't be an issue when an object is being hurled towards Sasuke 

All he needs to do is put it in front of himself .


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, sasuke did not use it against Danzo who's ENTIRE fighting style is based on the Wind style, but he will
> be SO interested in using it against Naruto whose FRS iso only ONE jutsu of his fighting style?
> 
> 
> ...




Using more Enton against Danzo after Amaterasu failed would be stupid as it compromises his ability to defend himself 

Against naruto that's not the case

I know u get it cuz u aren't stupid . No way u think not using Enton against Danzo means he will never attempt to use it against naruto 

I could just say naruto has never tried to use FRS against a sharingan user therefore won't use it here


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

I don't give a darn about Danzo, so long story short, that fodder jutsu is not going to do jack-shit, not now, not in a million years



Not against Naruto, and or any character ever...


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Not as if that matters, we have seen the Rassengan > Amatersu/Enton.



>Comparing a non-wind technique to a wind technique

Hussain plz, and I'm not arguing for the "Enton will win against FRS" camp



> There is no way in hell is the Amatersu going to deal with FTG.



Hussain please, you love Minato so much you see him instead of his kid?


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Not against Naruto, and or any character ever...



Tell that to Kaguya's Ice Dimension.

Or Raikage's arm

Or Juubiling

Or Nagato's summon

Seriously Hussain, we know that your heart cannot support Amat (and I admit that it's portayal when used by Sauce was shit) but come on, this is Base Minato > Hashi tier


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2015)

the Ice Dimension is a character? 

as for the other examples, they are too silly, and don't even worth mentioning honestly.


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## Icegaze (Oct 1, 2015)

stop it hachibi
hussain is here to provide comic relief 

odd even kaguya is discouraged to go to an entire dimension because of amaterasu

yh its shit. no doubt....sadly this shit technique on 2 occasions simply gets supercharged when faced with FRS

FRS is a stepping stone for it.


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

Hussain said:


> the Ice Dimension is a character?



It isn't, but it managing to stop both RSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke on their track mean that Enton cutting it (looked like that to me) is impressive as fuck.

Inb4 it was Rikudo powered, which mean shit since I'm countering your claim of "Amat/Enton being fodder". And I'm not arguing for Enton vs FRS here.



> as for the other examples, they are too silly, and don't even worth mentioning honestly.



Please tell me how are they silly.


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

Now we're using Rikudo Sasuke's Enton feats?

By god when will it end

Expansion FRS bulls through MS Sasuke's Enton as Raikage's arm did, end of story


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Now we're using Rikudo Sasuke's Enton feats?
> 
> By god when will it end
> 
> Expansion FRS bulls through MS Sasuke's Enton as Raikage's arm did, end of story



>Doesn't even know the context of why I said that.

Like I said, I'm not arguing for "Enton-beat-FRS", but for "Amaterasu/Enton is fodder-tier" which Hussain said.


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm well aware what you're arguing, but you're using feats that have nothing to do with MS Sasuke.

Rikudo Sasuke is empowered by Hagoromo's Yin Chakra, which directly empowers his Dojutsu.

Where does Enton/Amaterasu come from? His Dojutsu. 

Stop using Rikudo Sasuke's feats to argue for generic Amaterasu/Enton in terms of MS Sasuke.


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## Ghoztly (Oct 1, 2015)

Amaterasu is the same fucking jutsu as it was back then...

Why do people assume every jutsu changes because EMS or Rikudo nonsense? How would Amaterasu even change that much? EMS was basically an MS that didn't make you go blind, that was it's main selling point. Hence spamming shit like mad.

Doesn't mean the jutsu got that much stronger if at all.


----------



## Matty (Oct 1, 2015)

Frog Song FTW


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

Ghoztly said:


> Amaterasu is the same fucking jutsu as it was back then...
> 
> Why do people assume every jutsu changes because EMS or Rikudo nonsense? How would Amaterasu even change that much? EMS was basically an MS that didn't make you go blind, that was it's main selling point. Hence spamming shit like mad.
> 
> Doesn't mean the jutsu got that much stronger if at all.


His Susano grew to a legged-form with exponentially more striking power behind it's blade, as per God Tree Branch slicing feat. He got the ability to use Enton Splash (White Zetsu), Enton Magatamas (White Zetsu) and a massive Enton Arrow/Sword (Juubi)

His own speed increased when he attained EMS to the point of visually tracking flying Jubito as well as BSM Naruto & reacting to his attacks by leaping to save Naruto at the last moment.

As far as Rikudo Sasuke is concerned, I have no doubt his Amaterasu/Enton was more powerful as a result of receiving Hagoromo's Yin Chakra, as was his Chidori which allowed him to tear through JJ Madara, a being who wasn't even torn through by Yoton FRS which chopped the Shinju in half. Prior to this, MS Sasuke's Chidori could barely penetrate Ei's Raiton cloak and create a flesh wound.

Later in The Last, he obliterates a meteor double the size of the leaf village with a regular Chidori. 

And your logic is chakra that empowers his Chidori by that much will not empower one of his signature ocular techniques? Despite it being Yin Chakra which has everything to do with Dojutsu?


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## Ghoztly (Oct 1, 2015)

Not denying he learned some variants (ok, alot.) and more portent ones, but I assumed we're talking about the same old Amaterasu. It was still a powerhouse, and fire is a direct counter to wind, and it's no ordinary fire at that. Can you honestly say FRS would beat it ouright?


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

What do you mean by beat it? 

Do you mean stop it from moving? No, it will not. It will engulf the technique and as it continues on moving creating a vortex of wrapping flames, and it will later explode into a physical bonfire of Amaterasu. Elemental advantage means nothing, FRS is thrown at supersonic+ speeds and it's considerably more solid and physical than Amaterasu, there is no doubt the technique will enhance the Amaterasu, but I do not see it
1. Stopping FRS in it's tracks
or
2. Causing it to detonate on-contact 

I don't see how anyone could. Amaterasu is not making the Rasengan within explode just because it's hanging on the blades of the wind shuriken. 

Rikudo Chakra enhances every Jutsu, and in this case Yin Chakra specifically enhances Dojutsu. 

The bottom line is the flames will move faster, and they will burn and destroy faster. There's a reason why Sasuke wasn't using Amaterasu/Enton with BPS, it would be too broken. 

But that's Rikudo Sasuke, not MS Sasuke. MS Sasuke's flames are slower, they are less powerful, and they are smaller flames.


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## Hachibi (Oct 1, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> I'm well aware what you're arguing, but you're using feats that have nothing to do with MS Sasuke.
> 
> Rikudo Sasuke is empowered by Hagoromo's Yin Chakra, which directly empowers his Dojutsu.
> 
> ...



I mean, I'm pretty sure we were talking about Amat in general.

But even with only MS Sasuke's feat, I'm pretty sure it burning Hachibi down (although Bee escaped) count as a good feat imo.

Then again, Kishi isn't exactly consistent with Amat in the first place.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Oct 1, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> I mean, I'm pretty sure we were talking about Amat in general.
> 
> But even with only MS Sasuke's feat, I'm pretty sure it burning Hachibi down (although Bee escaped) count as a good feat imo.
> 
> Then again, Kishi isn't exactly consistent with Amat in the first place.


Indeed, I could just as well say it did not burn Karin very quickly or destroy Raikage's arm on-contact or several panels preceding him taking his arm off. The moment he took it off the arm was still in generally decent shape, it didn't even burn through the brace he had attached around the arm.


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## Icegaze (Oct 2, 2015)

Still need those scans of FRS bullying through Amaterasu 
Kishi only provided me with the opposite


----------



## Pirao (Oct 2, 2015)

Still waiting for those scans of MS Sasuke intercepting Futons.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 2, 2015)

Lol denial @ its peak. 

Amaterasu takes a dump on FRS.
We've seen how Cerebrus tanked FRS like a champ and got erased by Amaterasu in a matter of seconds.

Even if you ignore the feats, the elemental wheel will correct you nontheless.

Fire > wind


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 2, 2015)

love the fact that fuuton are immune to being intercepted

that strong logic...you go champ


----------



## Pirao (Oct 2, 2015)

So show the scans dude, where are them? If it's so obvious you'll have no trouble finding evidence... oh wait you have only been talking BS up till now with not a shred of evidence, maybe it's not so obvious after all huh?


----------



## Crow (Oct 2, 2015)

Even Zetsu said that Naruto would be able to beat Sasuke after he beat pain in Sage Mode.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 2, 2015)

Pirao said:


> So show the scans dude, where are them? If it's so obvious you'll have no trouble finding evidence... oh wait you have only been talking BS up till now with not a shred of evidence, maybe it's not so obvious after all huh?



i do have scans of enton trolling FRS though
do u need those 

also its where are they


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 2, 2015)

Knight of Chaos said:


> Even Zetsu said that Naruto would be able to beat Sasuke after he beat pain in Sage Mode.



A Sasuke who hadn't mastered is MS unlike here.


----------



## Blu-ray (Oct 2, 2015)

It's either stalling for 5 minutes or countering two FRS, either of which Sasuke can pull with Susano'o and Amaterasu/Kagutuchi, and then SM is done and it's a guaranteed victory.

Doubt he'd need to stall Naruto out given Ama should have no problems connecting anyway. Reflex is one thing. Naruto simply lacks the speed to completely avoid his line of sight.



Knight of Chaos said:


> Even Zetsu said that Naruto would be able to beat Sasuke after he beat pain in Sage Mode.



Before Sasuke even had Susano'o. Naruto himself said he'd need Kurama to beat him after their Kage Summit meetup.


----------



## Pirao (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i do have scans of enton trolling FRS though
> do u need those
> 
> also its where are they



No you don't, you only have scans about Sasuke and Naruto combining their jutsu and then you pretend that means anything else, idiocy at its finest 

Oh look criticizing my writing, the last desperate attempt of someone who knows that he has no arguments left


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

So FRS is different when not used as a combination technique 
U go champ explain that 

Both jutsu were combined intentionally because of Enton superiority to FRS 

So Yh feel free to use ur weak mind to explain how suddenly FRS is no longer a wind jutsu and when it comes in contact with Enton it won't ignite cuz clown over here says so


----------



## DaVizWiz (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze, I already asked you to refrain from using EMS Sasuke's Enton feats.

For the record, FRS wasn't destroyed by Sasuke's Enton Arrow, it only enhanced it's power, and once it hit, FRS continued going in the direction it was flying and then hit the Juubi. 
[1]
[2]

Mind you, this is Susano-empowered EMS Enton. Even if the chakra ratio was adjusted, the force behind the arrow hitting it literally didn't even deviate the angle FRS was flying in or slow it down. It's ethereal, it will not stop FRS from moving toward Sasuke's Susano, it does not pack the physical force necessary to stop it from coming at him. 

I have no clue even with that feat (EMS Sasuke) how someone could say (MS Sasuke) Enton 20x smaller, without being propelled with the power of Susano, has any chance at stopping a supersonic+ FRS of similar size [1] to the one that was thrown by KCM Naruto [2]

There is simply no way it is stopping it from hitting the Susano, it simply does not have the defensive feats (Raikage's arm went right through it) nor the offensive power feats (did not deviate the FRS thrown by KCM Naruto upon hitting it, even with the Susano propelling the arrow and the Enton being of similar size to the FRS).

All this irrelevant to the fact that he chose to defend himself from Futons via Susano, and not Amaterasu/Enton- against Danzo. Danzo, who shot a massive futon ball right at him where there was no reaction with Amaterasu/Enton [1] [2]

Mind you, Sasuke has no knowledge on FRS or it's destructive capabilities, just as he had no knowledge on that Futon and it's destructive capabilities.

Just as I stated in my original post, 0 reason why Sasuke starts with Amaterasu/Enton or Susano against SM Naruto, he has no knowledge on Sage Mode or that Naruto has improved since the last time he saw him- where he tried a Chidori blitz on him initially. He tried to blitz at the Raikage & his men with a Katana, then he actually did blitz him with a regular arm Chidori. This is what he chose to do before using Amaterasu or Susano against him. 

He did the same thing against Base Killer Bee and V1 Killer Bee, who previously beat his friends up without issue and seemingly murdered Sasuke (6 sword stabbings), where he attempted taijutsu & regular sword play initially, then he went to Chidori, then he went to Genjutsu after Killer Bee went into V1- only after he attempted blitzing him once again with his katana after Jugo threw him where Killer Bee was hiding, and after being killed twice (without the assistance of Jugo & Karin effectively reviving him) and Killer Bee transforming into a bijuu and firing bijuudama did he choose to use Amaterasu. 

I see no reason why he doesn't start with an attempted Chidori/Katana blitz again, against a ninja who he should think to be weaker than the Raikage & Killer Bee, this time however, he will be killed with Kata Boxing.


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## Hachibi (Oct 3, 2015)

Actually the question isn't if Enton will cover FRS, because it will due to lolfire-get-boosted-by-wind.

The question is if Enton has enough force behind it to change FRS' trajectory (because otherwise Sasuke just made a worse attack coming toward him)

And the answer to that question is no.


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

@davizwiz
Your the hypocrite who says A bullied through it therefore FRS does the same 

Never said Enton will deflect it . The FRS empowered Enton will hit Sasuke and will have no effect as it's simply Enton something Sasuke can control 

So again you still got no scans suggesting FRS makes contact with Enton and doesn't ignite . It's going to ignite which benefits Sasuke


He used susanoo against Danzo to avoid being resapwn blitz . Hence why he was susanoo camping against Danzo futon 

What would Enton have done ? Kill Danzo ? No it wouldn't have , it would have deactivated susanoo and given Danzo the chance to blindside him 

Naruto doesn't have the ability to blindside him so he need not susanoo camp

Ps: FRS being supersonic is fan hype , those words have never been used to describe it by the author through his manga or DB. It's not even mentioned as fast at all despite the number of times it has been used 

Supersonic my ass. Deva has no issues avoiding it so do 4 other paths with a lot less speed feats than Sasuke . Worst comes to worst Sasuke jumps over it laughing 

If naraka path can avoid it , the same path who got beat by konohamaru, FRS gets avoided worst comes to worst by Sasuke . Though he doesn't need to avoid it


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Actually the question isn't if Enton will cover FRS, because it will due to lolfire-get-boosted-by-wind.
> 
> The question is if Enton has enough force behind it to change FRS' trajectory (because otherwise Sasuke just made a worse attack coming toward him)
> 
> And the answer to that question is no.



A worse attack which he can control
More Enton coming at Sasuke is happy days for Sasuke not the other way around

Even if one is to claim Sasuke can't control it a huge pile of Enton still won't do shit to susanoo . So Sasuke can then defend himself with basic susanoo .


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Ps: if FRS were even fast naruto won't have devised all these methods to actually make sure it lands 

1) shadow shiruken tech
2) FRS expansion 
3) controlling with with kyuubi chakra 

How many fast techniques go through such efforts to land ? . It's normally a simple blitz . Susanoo arrow is always a bloody arrow , hirudora always the same kind of punch . 

No fancy methods to make sure these strikes land


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 3, 2015)

> Your the hypocrite who says A bullied through it therefore FRS does the same


How's that being a hypocrite? 



> Never said Enton will deflect it . The FRS empowered Enton will hit Sasuke and will have no effect as it's simply Enton something Sasuke can control


What the fuck? Are you suggesting the FRS doesn't explode, and that he deactivates the Enton before the FRS & Enton destroy his Susano?

Even if he could how is that helping him? The FRS still explodes 



> So again you still got no scans suggesting FRS makes contact with Enton and doesn't ignite . It's going to ignite which benefits Sasuke


It benefits Naruto if anyone, Enton only enhances the power behind the nuke. 



> He used susanoo against Danzo to avoid being resapwn blitz . Hence why he was susanoo camping against Danzo futon


No, he used it initially to kill Danzo. Then he stayed in Susano to continue attacking him. 

The bottom line is the guy didn't use Enton against an incoming Futon, one that he had no knowledge on. He basically gambled on his Susano being enough to protect him, there is no reason why he wouldn't do the same against FRS- a technique he has no knowledge on. 

Danzo isn't the only one, he utilized only Susano to defend himself against combined Darui, Gaara, Kankuro & Temari's ranged attacks- with limited to no knowledge on them. 

FRS is no different, there's no way he could have known Darui, Temari & Kankuro's ranged projectiles weren't powerful enough to bypass his V2 Susano- yet he did not use Enton. 

He didn't use it against Chojuro who hammered his ass through a lava wall. 

He didn't use it against Killer Bee who stabbed him 6 times, and lariat destroyed every organ in his body. 

He didn't use it against Raikage who grabbed him, then liger bombed him. He opted to use ribcage Susano on that. Only when he could not track his speed did he evoke an Enton defensive wall around ribcage- which didn't work anyway, Raikage put his hand right through that and the susano and pushed his ass to the ground, prepping him for a final kill kick.

He didn't use it against Darui the first time he attacked [1]

What's the conclusion?

He has no reason to use Enton to defend against FRS. 
IC: Doesn't use Enton to defend himself unless he cannot see the opponent (V2 Ei). 


> What would Enton have done ? Kill Danzo ? No it wouldn't have , it would have deactivated susanoo and given Danzo the chance to blindside him


So he let the attack hit his Susano and gambled on it being enough to protect him. Note that he did not have the speed to avoid it- yet he avoids FRS. 

You don't know Sasuke's mindset, he could just as easily diverted back to ribcage. Hell, it wouldn't have mattered anyway, after that attack he went at Danzo without Susano up anyway. 



> Naruto doesn't have the ability to blindside him so he need not susanoo camp


He used Susano to keep Danzo using Izanagi, that was his primary reasoning, Obito explained this.

It doesn't matter, he did not use Enton against an obvious Futon technique, he relied solely on the Susano to defend him. 



> Ps: FRS being supersonic is fan hype , those words have never been used to describe it by the author through his manga or DB. It's not even mentioned as fast at all despite the number of times it has been used


 Ps: No it's not. It crossed the entire CST crater in a fraction of a second, sound cannot do that, ergo SUPERsonic+ speed. 



> Supersonic my ass. Deva has no issues avoiding it so do 4 other paths with a lot less speed feats than Sasuke . Worst comes to worst Sasuke jumps over it laughing


Then Deva's reflexes are super sonic. Hell, most Jounin move at sonic speed. 

Itachi reacted to a fucking lightning bolt 100x the speed of sound. 

Is this something new to you?



> If naraka path can avoid it , the same path who got beat by konohamaru, FRS gets avoided worst comes to worst by Sasuke . Though he doesn't need to avoid it


Dude, nothing you say will change the fact that it crossed the CST crater in a fraction of a second. 

It doesn't matter if fucking PT.1 baby Gamakichi avoided it, it's speed is documented by definitive time measurement (fraction of a second)-over-distance (CST Crater) (Nagato via Deva Path counting it) and as a result that baby Gamakichi would now have super sonic reactions.

Again, this all irrelevant to the fact that he (MS)
>Went at Samurai platoon with a fucking katana
>Went at Darui, Ei & C with a fucking Katana
>Went at Killer Bee with a fucking Katana, even after being stabbed 6 times and recovering he went after him again with a katana... alone!  
>Went at Base Naruto with a fucking Chidori

Results:
>Kills fodder Samurai
>Gets blasted back by a slow ass water wave (no reaction with ribcage Susano, Enton, or even arm blocking- straight up blitzed by water wave)
>Gets countered, pushed back for multiple seconds and tagged, loses his balance and gets stabbed 6 times (no reaction with ribcage Susano, Enton, or even arm blocking- straight up blitzed by 6 sword stabs)
>Bee is in V1 the second time, forced/chooses to dodge instead of using Amaterasu/Enton/Susano to defend himself 
>Gets countered with Rasengan

Conclusion:

He goes at fucking Naruto with a Katana/Chidori 
>No knowledge on SM or that Naruto has improved whatsoever since the time he went at him with a Chidori
>Equal if not superior reflexes, he should have no issue getting his fist close enough to Sasuke's body to land a lethal kata shot 
>Sasuke WILL choose to go at him with Katana/Chidori Katana as he did three other opponents 

FRS isn't needed he gets owned in CQC at battle start 

According to what he chooses to do against opponents as listed above who he easily should assume were more powerful/dangerous than Naruto, and according to what he chose to do against Naruto already in the fucking manga 

Failing to emit Enton/Amaterasu against Darui's water wave, Chojuro's hammer, fucking V1 Raikage grabbing his fucking body pre-liger bomb..... there's no fucking way he's defending himself from invisible kata strikes with Susano/Kata he shouldn't be aware are incoming as he dodges the physical fist of Naruto

All this talk about FRS vs. Enton is fucking pointless, IC Sasuke will attack Naruto with Chidori & CQC, he will not start with Enton/Amterasu/Susano as he did not start with them against him, Darui Raikage C, Killer Bee (who just beat Suigetsu & Jugo down) and a Samurai platoon- and the guy will be put down by invisible kata strikes and reflexes he didn't know Naruto had just as he was put down by Killer Bee with swords and reactions he did know Killer Bee had from obsevering him beating the shit out of Jugo & disarming Suigetsu casually & reacting to Sasuke himself prior with Suigetsu's blade


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## Hachibi (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> A worse attack which he can control
> More Enton coming at Sasuke is happy days for Sasuke not the other way around
> 
> Even if one is to claim Sasuke can't control it a huge pile of Enton still won't do shit to susanoo . So Sasuke can then defend himself with basic susanoo .



Except that you forgot that below all this Enton there's still FRS, which Sasuke can't control.

Oh and also, I actually don't see Sasuke's Susanoo taking ERS when it couldn't tank an enhanced Futon form Danzo.


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

When has FRS exploded after coming in contact with Enton ? Need those scans

@hachibi 
There is no FRS once it makes contact with Enton it simply becomes more Enton 

Look what happened against juubito where is the FRS ? All we see is a pile of Enton in the end burning


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

@davizwiz
First thing Sasuke did against Danzo was use susanoo , second move was Amaterasu 

Try a lot harder . The Sasuke in the thread is the one who fought Danzo . Nothing at all suggests he starts with cqc or chidori 

Could just say naruto starts with basic rasengan and taijutsu


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## Hachibi (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> @hachibi
> There is no FRS once it makes contact with Enton it simply becomes more Enton
> 
> Look what happened against juubito where is the FRS ? All we see is a pile of Enton in the end burning



You mean this?


I'm still seeing the Rasengan


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Keep reading till the end result of the technique please
Go on 
Lemme know what u see then

[1]


Notice no explosion and only Enton is left 

By the next chapter seconds after all we see is a heap of Enton . So again how does a lot of Enton do anything to Sasuke ?


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## Hachibi (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Keep reading till the end result of the technique please
> Go on
> Lemme know what u see then
> 
> ...



It's actually an explosion of black flame tho. See how high the flame suddently got?



> By the next chapter seconds after all we see is a heap of Enton . So again how does a lot of Enton do anything to Sasuke ?



Burn his Susano if he's not fast enough?

Even if the FRS became entirely Enton, it would be too big for him to deplace entirely. before it hit him.


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## LostSelf (Oct 3, 2015)

Didn't Zetsu (or Obito, don't remember) said that SM Naruto was stronger than Sasuke after he fought Pain? .


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Ps: if FRS were even fast naruto won't have devised all these methods to actually make sure it lands



Or it could simply be a case that the people who were fighting Naruto was fast enough to react to the jutsu but that doesn't mean FRS, I don't get how anyone could call a jutsu that crossed mountain range in a second slow.



> 1) shadow shiruken tech
> 2) FRS expansion
> 3) controlling with with kyuubi chakra



1) Preta path had come back to life and absorbed a FRS so he needed number one in order to trick the paths and take out a path and as we saw later on he did it again because of Deva's paths ST.
2) Didn't he do it like once?
3) He only did it against the Sandaime who we all know isn't slow.



> How many fast techniques go through such efforts to land ? . It's normally a simple blitz . Susanoo arrow is always a bloody arrow , hirudora always the same kind of punch .
> 
> No fancy methods to make sure these strikes land



What if someone as fast as Six paths mode Naruto or Kaguya was going up against those jutsu and kept dodging them. Those jutsu wouldn't simple blitz shit now would they? Does this mean that those jutsu are slow because some people dodge them?


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> It's actually an explosion of black flame tho. See how high the flame suddently got?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



An explosion of flame which Sasuke can control though 

So really don't see how that's an issue for him

 how would Enton burn through susanoo ? Didn't Sasuke already use it to surround his susanoo ???

Enton is useless against someone who can control it . He simply uses all of that and sends it back at naruto . Enton has no feats of burning through susanoo 

I don't see why Sasuke chakra would burn through his susanoo


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Or it could simply be a case that the people who were fighting Naruto was fast enough to react to the jutsu but that doesn't mean FRS, I don't get how anyone could call a jutsu that crossed mountain range in a second slow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not saying it's slow 
Am saying it has no speed hype at all 
DB or manga statement 

Base bee crosses mountain ranges without effort . Crossing a mountain range is hardly impressive 

Obito with 1 jump did that 

Point is jutsu which are fast are always hyper by the author 

Like he really repetitive with that


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Not saying it's slow
> Am saying it has no speed hype at all
> DB or manga statement



How can you say it has no speed hype? See all that empty space below? FRS crossed that entire thing in the span of a second, if Kishi outright showing you and tell you how fast it is, is not consider speed hype then I don't know what is. 



> Base bee crosses mountain ranges without effort . Crossing a mountain range is hardly impressive



Killer B never crossed mountain ranges in a second unless you think that those hills are mountains 



> Obito with 1 jump did that



Kamui is a fast jutsu so using that doesn't really help your point of "Crossing a mountain range is hardly impressive" when very few people has done so in the span of a second like FRS did



> Point is jutsu which are fast are always hyper by the author
> 
> Like he really repetitive with that



Did Kishi not hype it by showing us how fast it was? Did Kishi not hype it by having the fast Sandaime Raikage just barely dodge it at the last second? I mean you just mention Sasuke's arrow and hirudora when it comes to blitzing yet Kishi never really hyped them about speed and even then Sasuke's arrow has been reacted to or dodge by pretty much everyone who has gone up against it.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 3, 2015)

why are people saying that enton burning frs would only make the projectile deadlier for sasuke? 

frs+enton=/=attack with both frs and enton properties

frs+enton=bigger enton.

enton has no effect on susano


nor its own user as shown by sasuke being able to hand wield it.


so even if the bigger fireball comes back at sasuke due to "momentum"(it wont ), it wouldnt even hurt sasuke.

frs is countered by susano as well. people keep on arguing about the portrayal of frs yet keep trying to ignore gaaras statement. 

sasuke would win.


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## Hachibi (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> how would Enton burn through susanoo ? Didn't Sasuke already use it to surround his susanoo ???



Because unlike against the Raikage fight it pretty much isn't use to protect him?



> Enton is useless against someone who can control it .



Nope. because controlling it depends on his reaction or else he get his Susano destroyed, yet he doesn't have a reaction feat from something that could go through the CT crater in one second.



> Enton has no feats of burning through susanoo



So something that made the Juubi howl in pain (I mean, KCM Naruto + EMS Sasuke is > MS Sasuke + SM Naruto but the difference isn't  that huge for ERS to not destroy Susano)



> I don't see why Sasuke chakra would burn through his susanoo



Just like Hachibi didn't get injured by it's Bijuudama oh wait.


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Bonly said:


> How can you say it has no speed hype? See all that empty space below? FRS crossed that entire thing in the span of a second, if Kishi outright showing you and tell you how fast it is, is not consider speed hype then I don't know what is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I meant obito physically jumped not kamui 

Also those were mountains killer bee jumped to . What scans do u have to suggest they were hills 

Also speed hype involves a character saying s jutsu is fast 

Something FRS doesn't have

Ps: those are clouds we seeing . Don't know many hills breaching clouds


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## Blu-ray (Oct 3, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> It's actually an explosion of black flame tho. See how high the flame suddently got?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He can touch the flames without being hurt and even wrap Susano'o with it without it being burned, so if it became entirely Enton,  I don't see why he'd be harmed by it.



Hachibi said:


> You mean this?
> 
> 
> I'm still seeing the Rasengan



Think he means this.
hills

Completely engulfed.


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Susanoo arrow on its intro has Danzo saying it's too fast to form hand seals

Then we have kakashi who says it's too fast to physically avoid it and he needed to use kamui 

The same kakashi that chapters before was hyped for being fast by obito 

That's hype 

Hirudora = faster than any other punch . Gai own statement . That in itself is speed hype . 

What jutsu has actually failed to cross mountain ranges 

I mean we have naraka path avoiding FRS without any issues . 

Also sandaime had sun glare in his eyes , couldn't really avoid till the last minute . Which he did in the end 

Twice if I recall 

again naruto lack of surprise sort of shows you it really isn't that fast 

Notice Sasuke reaction when kabuto avoids his arrow . pure shock .


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## David (Oct 3, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Or it could simply be a case that the people who were fighting Naruto was fast enough to react to the jutsu but that doesn't mean FRS, I don't get how anyone could call a jutsu that crossed mountain range in a second slow.



I was an advocate for the whole FRS mountain range thing thing years ago, but at some point, I realized that it is most likely Kishimoto didn't even realize what he was inferring in that panel.  I was just wanking Pain and SM Naruto (I'm not saying you are, of course).

I mean, think of it this way:

- God Realm's speed crapped all over RasenShuriken, so he'd be hypersonic. Kakashi did not got blitz-owned by God Realm.  Therefore, Kakashi was at least _somewhere_ around God Realm's level of speed.  Therefore, Kakashi must be hypersonic.  Moreover, Base Naruto could fend off God Realm, so he must be something around hypersonic speed.  And then, many, many people could keep up with Base Naruto.  

Moreover, Sage Mode >>>>> Base Naruto, so Sage Mode Naruto must be even more hypersonic.  And KCM is supposed to be even faster, and BM significantly faster.

I mean, it just gets ridiculous.  Eventually all Naruto characters are supposed to be able to Shunshin around at 1700 m/s.

Feel free to replace "hypersonic" with "greatly supersonic" or whatever crossing many mountains in 1 second counts as.  You know what I mean.


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

I find it daft almost when people use hypersonic or super sonic to refer to things that kishi himself didn't describe as such 

Only MP was mentioned as such 

Doesn't mean MP is the fastest jutsu or anything but I tend to go with how the author describes his jutsu 

FRS being hypersonic means naraka is as well which puts konohamaru somewhere along those lines which gets well silly 

FRS is fast sure but nothing impressive about its speed . As shown the distractions and methods naruto used to get his jutsu to land 

Super fast jutsu are straight forward . Would be like kakashi clone feinting to kamui , he simply snipes


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2015)

David said:


> I was an advocate for the whole FRS mountain range thing thing years ago, but at some point, I realized that it is most likely Kishimoto didn't even realize what he was inferring in that panel.  I was just wanking Pain and SM Naruto (I'm not saying you are, of course).
> 
> I mean, think of it this way:
> 
> ...



Just because it gets ridiculous doesn't mean that the feats doesn't hold up I mean super sonic, hyper sonic, whatever sonic you wanna call it, couldn't it just be a case that Naruto characters are faster in general then what you thought they would be?


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

and they are 
However point is if FRS is super sonic 
Susanoo arrow is hyper sonic 

Therefore FRS ends up not being that fast


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## t0xeus (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> and they are
> However point is if FRS is super sonic
> Susanoo arrow is hyper sonic
> 
> Therefore FRS ends up not being that fast



There's no reason to argue anymore Icegaze, you're fighting against trolls who are saying that MS Sasuke gets defeated in under 5 minutes (Naruto's maximum SM).

They are also completely ignoring the fact that Sasuke's arrows function just as FRS, you get hit = IK, there's no way to end this other than agreeing to disagree.


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## David (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> FRS being hypersonic means naraka is as well which puts konohamaru somewhere along those lines which gets well silly



I was going to refer to this, but really just choose to ignore the whole Konohamaru incident.  I would think that everyone acknowledges that as bullshit when Naraka was stomping his way through platoons of actual qualified Konoha Chuunin+ like it was nobody's business.



> Just because it gets ridiculous doesn't mean that the feats doesn't hold up I mean super sonic, hyper sonic, whatever sonic you wanna call it, couldn't it just be a case that Naruto characters are faster in general then what you thought they would be?



This could make sense and sure I could accept it if it didn't take several days for ninja to travel from Konoha to the sand village.  But even if fictional magical ninja are just that fast, what's more important is what Icegaze said, really:



			
				Icegaze said:
			
		

> However point is if FRS is super sonic
> Susanoo arrow is hyper sonic



Perhaps not "hypersonic," but significantly faster, anyways.  Basically, in the scope of things, FRS isn't really all that if God Realm could take a dump on it and Base Naruto could fend him off (I think we agree here), while Susano'o's arrow was praised several times by significant people.



t0xeus said:


> There's no reason to argue anymore Icegaze, you're fighting against trolls who are saying that MS Sasuke gets defeated in under 5 minutes (Naruto's maximum SM).
> 
> They are also completely ignoring the fact that Sasuke's arrows function just as FRS, you get hit = IK, there's no way to end this other than agreeing to disagree.



It's not trolling to think something much different from what you do, though.


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## Hachibi (Oct 3, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> He can touch the flames without being hurt and even wrap Susano'o with it without it being burned, so if it became entirely Enton,  I don't see why he'd be harmed by it.



Yeah, but can he do it with Enton enhanced by FRS (which he actually never touched) is actually the question.


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2015)

David said:


> This could make sense and sure I could accept it if it didn't take several days for ninja to travel from Konoha to the sand village.



Wasn't that at the start of part two, before all of the power inflation really started upon which before all of these feats took place.



> But even if fictional magical ninja are just that fast, what's more important is what Icegaze said, really:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps not "hypersonic," but significantly faster, anyways.  Basically, in the scope of things, FRS isn't really all that if God Realm could take a dump on it and Base Naruto could fend him off (I think we agree here),



I wouldn't call barely dodging FRS when it's close "dumping" on it and not only that but we have constantly seen slower character be able to react and dodge and what not faster characters then themselves multiple times in the manga. Unless the speed gap is huge for the most part, it's not gonna make to much of a difference and said characters are gonna get lolblitzed.



> while Susano'o's arrow was praised several times by significant people.



And each of those two people managed to deal with it right?


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 3, 2015)

I wouldn't mind if Sasuke supporters say the dude could deflect Rasenshuriken with an Enton sword or something. That's feasible.

But here, Sasuke doesn't have the Eternal version of his eyes. This is regular ol' Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke. He can't use Enton arrorws or swords. All he can utilize is regular ol' Amaterasu and those little spikes of flames he can manipulate.

Assuming that Rasenshuriken is even completely engulfed by the black flames by the time the projectile reaches him - which is highly unlikely unless he and Naruto have a 100-meter berth separating them - there's the issue of an Enton-enhanced chakra sphere fucking him up. When Naruto and Sasuke utilized the same trick on Obito, notice how the range of the flames was absolutely enormous? The Rasenshuriken detonating most likely contributed to that.

And that's exactly what will happen to Sasuke. He'll get hit not only by his Enton flames, but by the force and energy of the Rasenshuriken detonation, which none of his Susanoo forms thus far have feats to tanking.

Unless, you know, they're more durable than Kurama.


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## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Yeah, but can he do it with Enton enhanced by FRS (which he actually never touched) is actually the question.



Enton enhanced by FRS is just a large scale Enton and yes of course he can 
His second eye ability is to control Enton


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Unless, you know, they're more durable than Kurama.



Narudo could even kill at least the 4tails if he want to.
range of the flames was absolutely enormous

I don't think the other argument can be taken seriously. As a matter of fact, Sasuke's Susanoo
is much smaller than the summon animals


range of the flames was absolutely enormous
range of the flames was absolutely enormous
range of the flames was absolutely enormous

Narudo can drop a frog on it, and that will be more than enough to crush it.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Lol ok
using FRS against kyuubi to determine how it would go against Sasuke 
Well newbie Sasuke 1 shotted hachibi with Amaterasu 

Hachibi >>>>>>SM naruto 

Hitting kyuubi with a technique doesn't mean squat 

ESP when the same technique was dodged by naraka path


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

Sasuke one shotted a clone/tail.  

Also, Kurama is stronger than the Hachibi, just to let you know.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Nope he 1 shotted hachibi who used a replacement technique to escape 
Sasuke went from being a weak kid as stated by killer bee

To the second strongest person he has ever fought in 1 move 

Yes kyuubi is . And naraka is a lot weaker than both. We know he can avoid FRS however Amaterasu 1 shots him


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

If he escaped how is that a 1-shot? 
At the end of the day, Sasuke did not do shit. 



> Sasuke went from being a weak kid as stated by killer bee


Where did he say that Sasuke is a weak kid. 



> however Amaterasu 1 shots him



How did you figure this out, or where have you seen it exactly? 
because we know all the paths have the black rods which is > Amatersu.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Lol before using the 3rd tail killer bee says they are weaklings 
Sasuke was part of the they . Read the manga much? 

Lol I guess that's why nagato used the rods to block it . Oh no wait he didn't 



range of the flames was absolutely enormous

Try reading the manga before arguing 

Also yes bee escaped but look at his take on it . From weaklings to second strongest faced


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> . Read the manga much?


Can you provide a link? 

Edit: nvm, just saw your edit. 


> Lol I guess that's why nagato used the rods to block it . Oh no wait he didn't


you do know that Nagato is an ET, and itachi is also an ET, and he cannot attack him, right? 
range of the flames was absolutely enormous

and you do remember this, right? 
range of the flames was absolutely enormous

As I said, it really is sad that people are still delusional when it comes to this pathetic jutsu. 

:letgo 

already


----------



## Blu-ray (Oct 3, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Yeah, but can he do it with Enton enhanced by FRS (which he actually never touched) is actually the question.



Don't see why not. It's still gonna be his own flames, all the FRS will do is make it spread.

If he could conjure enough flame to cover the Hachibi and extinguish the same amount, then there's no reason this should be beyond the scope of his ability.


ATastyMuffin said:


> I wouldn't mind if Sasuke supporters say the dude could deflect Rasenshuriken with an Enton sword or something. That's feasible.
> 
> But here, Sasuke doesn't have the Eternal version of his eyes. This is regular ol' Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke. He can't use Enton arrorws or swords. All he can utilize is regular ol' Amaterasu and those little spikes of flames he can manipulate.
> 
> Assuming that Rasenshuriken is even completely engulfed by the black flames by the time the projectile reaches him - which is highly unlikely unless he and Naruto have a 100-meter berth separating them - there's the issue of an Enton-enhanced chakra sphere fucking him up. When Naruto and Sasuke utilized the same trick on Obito, notice how the range of the flames was absolutely enormous? The Rasenshuriken detonating most likely contributed to that.


Why is the debate geared toward Sasuke deflecting FRS, but nothing towards how Naruto stops Sasuke from simply looking in his direction and buring him directly.

In any case, I don't see why why the flames wouldn't engulf it completely, EMS or not, and if it is engulfed, then his own flames won't burn him or his Susano'o.


> And that's exactly what will happen to Sasuke. He'll get hit not only by his Enton flames, but by the force and energy of the Rasenshuriken detonation, which none of his Susanoo forms thus far have feats to tanking.
> 
> Unless, you know, they're more durable than Kurama.



The only reason Susano'o has no feats of tanking it, was because FRS was implied to be useless against it in the first place. Did you miss when Gaara pulled Madara out of Susano'o?

Not to mention FRS has no feats of busting it either.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> Why is the debate geared toward Sasuke deflecting FRS, but nothing towards how Naruto stops Sasuke from simply looking in his direction and buring him directly.



Naruto is a sensor. Remind me how this strategy worked with Kabuto and Obito. 

Hint: it did not.



> The only reason Susano'o has no feats of tanking it, was because FRS was implied to be useless against it in the first place. Did you miss when Gaara pulled Madara out of Susano'o?



You think MS = EMS? 

Does this logic apply to SM = RSM as well? 

Not to mention Madara's Susanoo did not get a hit from it anyway.


----------



## Blu-ray (Oct 3, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Naruto is a sensor. Remind me how this strategy worked with Kabuto and Obito.
> 
> Hint: it did not.


Sasuke never used Amaterasu on Kabuto and Obito could erase the flames. Naruto senses the flames coming and then what? Dodging requires completely going out of Sasuke's line of sight which requires Ay levels of speed.



> You think MS = EMS?
> 
> Does this logic apply to SM = RSM as well?


What are you taking about?

Shisho
_"If it's the same as *Sasuke's*, it's useless to attack the outer armor."_



> Not to mention Madara's Susanoo did not get a hit from it anyway.



Because it was flat out said to be useless to even try.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> [=VolatileSoul;54460584]Sasuke never used Amaterasu on Kabuto and Obito could erase the flames. Naruto senses the flames coming and then what? Dodging requires completely going out of Sasuke's line of sight which requires Ay levels of speed.


he used amatersu to save itachi's ass. 

Who said it required A's level of speed? I don't remember anyway saying you have to be AT LEAST
A's level, now did they? 

Because even Gaara's sand was fast enough to stop it. Is Gaara's sand as fast as A? 

Also, Smoke bombs /clones and Kawarimi.  


> What are you taking about?
> 
> Shisho
> _"If it's the same as *Sasuke's*, it's useless to attack the outer armor."_


And Gaara knows/saw Naruto's FRS's power before? 
Especially we know as a fact it's not useless to attack the armor as proven by Hashirama, the Bijuus, Danzo, Onoki, Gai, Kaguya, Naruto, and Momoshiki.  


> Because it was flat out said to be useless to even try.


Which is flat out proven wrong.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Can you provide a link?
> 
> Edit: nvm, just saw your edit.
> 
> ...



i dont see nagato or the paths of pain in that scan though. i mean if we are going to say all black rods are the same then i guess all rinnegan are the same. why didnt nagato have the ability to use limbo?

nagato got hit by it and defended with ST. naraka gets murked by it. unlike FRS which requires him to only skip over it

:letgo 

you dont have a point


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2015)

Bijuu durability is overrated. Pound per pound Susano'o is much more durable than Hachibee.

Raikage casually chops of his horn with Karate chop while the same moves does almost no damage on V1-V2 Susano'O. 

Its no surprise that Amaterasu casually oneshot Hachibee. 

Even Juubi couldn't tank it. 

Whats with the Amaterasu and Susano'o hate ? They shit on everything in SM Naruto's arsenal, bar Frog Song which is highly circumstantial.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i dont see nagato or the paths of pain in that scan though. i mean if we are going to say all black rods are the same then i guess all rinnegan are the same. why didnt nagato have the ability to use limbo?
> 
> nagato got hit by it and defended with ST. naraka gets murked by it. unlike FRS which requires him to only skip over it
> 
> ...



- Seriously now? 
if the black rods are not the same, then enlighten us with the different or where was it stated that
it's different. 

- So, you're saying if a character have multiple counters to an attack, and the character used 1, then
the other counters do not count because Nagato needs to use all of them at once? 

- So, you are basing that on your completely in your assumption just because? 


Grimmjowsensei said:


> Bijuu durability is overrated. Pound per pound Susano'o is much more durable than Hachibee.
> 
> Raikage casually chops of his horn with Karate chop while the same moves does almost no damage on V1-V2 Susano'O.
> 
> ...


- Nah, the Susanoo is massively overrated. The Bijuus destroyed that shit with their tails. lol

- different attacks for different things. 



> Its no surprise that Amaterasu casually oneshot Hachibee.


a clone



> Even Juubi couldn't tank it.


still got rid of it 


> Whats with the Amaterasu and Susano'o hate ? They shit on everything in SM Naruto's arsenal, bar Frog Song which is highly circumstantial.


Nonsense. Rassegan > Amatersu as proven in the manga.

No idea from where you came up with Amatersu doing jack shit to anything in Naruto's arsenal. 

Even the nation that the Susanoo would stand to an S-rank jutsu (FRS) when it couldn't handle a B-Rank jutsu (Danzo's attack) is already
nonsense...


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Actually grim 
That's false , hachibi can tank BD. Nothing suggests susanoo can do the same 

Outside Itachi susanoo V4 feat but we don't know how close he was to the actual explosion 

Regardless . I am just shocked that naruto wins due to FRS a much slower and easier attack to dodge than Amaterasu 

Yet naruto can just avoid Amaterasu 

Despite FRS on its intro being avoided by 4 people with a mere jump


Rinnegan aren't the same . Why should black rods be. Gone on explain that . Or are all rinnegan the same and do the same thing and function the same way ? 

Nope !! Try having a point


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Actually grim
> That's false , hachibi can tank BD. Nothing suggests susanoo can do the same
> 
> Outside Itachi susanoo V4 feat but we don't know how close he was to the actual explosion
> ...



Who said Naruto is only going to use FRS?
He has his clones, and because of them and his tricks he defeated Deva. 

you're the one who's making the assumption that Naruto will use it straight forward. 
He can make the FRS gets bigger all of a sudden (which took out one of the paths by surprised)
why do you not count that? Does Sasuke know that Naruto can do that with it?



> Rinnegan aren't the same . Why should black rods be. Gone on explain that . Or are all rinnegan the same and do the same thing and function the same way ?
> 
> Nope !! Try having a point


Stop talking nonsense. Nagato's Rinnegan is the same Rinnegan Obito was using.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Actually grim
> That's false , hachibi can tank BD. Nothing suggests susanoo can do the same





Hussain said:


> - Nah, the Susanoo is massively overrated. The Bijuus destroyed that shit with their tails. lol
> 
> - different attacks for different things.



Hachibee can't tank A's karatechop. Susano'O can. That pretty much shows that pound per pound Susano'o is more durable.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Hachibee can't tank A's karatechop. Susano'O can. That pretty much shows that pound per pound Susano'o is more durable.



Obito got a hole made in his back from a Rassengan. the Juubi did not from TBBs and other shit was throwing towards it.

Meanwhile, the Juubi was helpless agains Hashirama's Gates, when Obito trashed them. 

Kaguya's bons destroyed Kakashi's PS as better, and yet, it did not go through Obito's body in the same way. I guess Obito's body >> PS's?


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

I do count that 
But his surprise expansion trick caught 1 out of 6 people . Big whoop 

The other 5 didn't know he could yet avoided it without trying 

By the time deva got the hang of it he was skipping over FRS without issue

Preta even had the time to intercept it . Despite being defeated so far away from where deva was he still had time to jump and intercept it 

Surely naruto will use trickery otherwise no hope of landing , am sayin despite his tricks to let FRS land it would still fail to do so 

Now I have yet to see someone slower than A use speed or blocking LoS to avoid Amaterasu 

Surely hebi Sasuke could have done that if it were so easy . Or killer bee could have , or Danzo vs sacrificing an eye 

But they didn't . Everyone who had Amaterasu aimed at them had a special way of dealing with it

There is nothing special about naraka and he dealt with FRS with a jump


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> [=Icegaze;54460832]I do count that
> But his surprise expansion trick caught 1 out of 6 people . Big whoop


Good thing 1 is all Narudo needs here. Unless you believe there is 6 Sasukes. 




> Surely hebi Sasuke could have done that if it were so easy . Or killer bee could have , or Danzo vs sacrificing an eye


Hebi Sasuke is not as fast as SM Naruto, not does he have his sensing, and even then, the Amatersu barely got it because of the CS's wing. 




> But they didn't . Everyone who had Amaterasu aimed at them had a special way of dealing with it


Indeed. It's a jutsu that kept failing forever, and despite Sasuke showing it, he was still stated to be weaker than Naruto.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Lol 
Your too slow to get it . 6 people were targeted 5 came out alright 

Point is all 6 are slower than Sasuke , yet 5 of them had no issues escaping it .  

Your troll is real 

And naruto is not nearly as fast as A even with sensing and Hussain fan fic speed boost 

Lol odd the same Sasuke naruto said he couldn't beat despite having sage mode 

 try harder


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> Point is all 6 are slower than Sasuke , yet 5 of them had no issues escaping it



How did you figure that out exactly? Please enlighten us. 



> And naruto is not nearly as fast as A even with sensing and Hussain fan fic speed boost


Nor is Gaara's Sand.



> Lol odd the same Sasuke naruto said he couldn't beat despite having sage mode



Sasuke fanboy's fanfiction. 

Naruto was talking about Sasuke's hatred and Indra's existing


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

by feats and hype they are all slower than Sasuke 

None have speed hype like Sasuke does 

None have feats like Sasuke does 

Avoiding A point blank 

Stepping on a mine and getting away 

Out speed deidara 

Shit blitz Sakura so hard she still looking at the cliff 

No path has remotely the feats or hype to compare . So Yh Sasuke plays jump rope with FRS


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> [=Icegaze;54460934]
> All 6 paths are slower than Sasuke
> 5 of them skipped over FRS . So Sasuke does the same


you still haven't proven jack-shit. Sasuke has 4.5 in speed. Jiraiya has the same goddamn shit.
He was powered up by SM, and the Path's reacted to his attacks. 

Kakashi has the same speed, and the paths still reacted to him.

Where the hell did you bring that Sasuke is faster? Simple question.  




> Naruto already admitted after the Danzo fight that he couldn't beat Sasuke



Stop with the nonsense. Naruto said that if they were to battle, he is not going to lose, but rather
if he dies, Sasuke will die as well. That's obviously with the Mindset that *Naruto has which is NOT
killing Sasuke* (I.E holding back), meanwhile with *Sasuke going for the kill.* (I.E going all out) Just like how it was in their last battle, or every encounter between them. 




If Naruto believed that he is already weaker, and add to that the fact that he is holding back, he wouldn't stand a chance.
You don't hold back against someone who's already stronger than you to begin with. 

Meanwhile, Since as it was stated, Naruto is stronger than Sasuke, but because of the fact that he holds back against him,
it would make sense that Sasuke will make it to the tie (or at least won't die). Just like how Naruto was holding back against him
in their last battle (and still won), but it was a close one precisely because of the fact that Naruto did not want to kill him which was a
main point (and him being already drained anyway).


----------



## Hachibi (Oct 3, 2015)

I hope this thread reach 20 pages before it get thrashed.


----------



## LostSelf (Oct 3, 2015)

Sensing trolls Amaterasu. If Naruto knows what it is.

When Itachi was going to use Amaterasu, Nagato sensed it, and with such anticipation that Naruto had time to move out and Killer Bee had time to throw a sword to Itachi.

And had not been for Nagato, Itachi would've been stabbed.

Actually, sensing it here might be dangerous for Sasuke, as Naruto would have ample time to attack.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Sensing trolls Amaterasu. If Naruto knows what it is.
> 
> When Itachi was going to use Amaterasu, Nagato sensed it, and with such anticipation that Naruto had time to move out and Killer Bee had time to throw a sword to Itachi.
> 
> ...



Naruto knows about the Amatersu before even Sasuke lol (from part 1 in the hotel with Jiraiya).


----------



## Blu-ray (Oct 3, 2015)

Hussain, Naruto flat out said he'd need the Kyuubi to fight Sasuke.
pop out of the stomach area or something

He clearly didn't think he was superior with his current strength.



Hussain said:


> he used amatersu to save itachi's ass.


He used it defensively to make a barrier of flame. He didn't use it on Kabuto.



> Who said it required A's level of speed? I don't remember anyway saying you have to be AT LEAST
> A's level, now did they?



No one slower ever managed to do it, and we have nothing saying anyone slower can dodge it either.



> Because even Gaara's sand was fast enough to stop it. Is Gaara's sand as fast as A?


It intercepted Ay at his maximum speed, so if it isn't, it's at the very least negligibly close.

Also, Gaara guarded against Enton which travels. Ama does not.


> And Gaara knows/saw Naruto's FRS's power before?
> Especially we know as a fact it's not useless to attack the armor as proven by Hashirama, the Bijuus, Danzo, Onoki, Gai, Kaguya, Naruto, and Momoshiki.
> 
> Which is flat out proven wrong.



I'm not about to argue in circles Hussain.

I'm only saying this is why Susano'o has no feats of tanking FRS... because it was already a foregone conclusion that it would tank it and the attack would be pointless.

We have nothing that shows FRS can bust it either, just the implication that it can't.


Hussain said:


> Even the nation that the Susanoo would stand to an S-rank jutsu (FRS) when it couldn't handle a B-Rank jutsu (Danzo's attack) is already
> nonsense...



Kirin is S rank and arguably stronger than FRS, yet Susano'o stopped it.

Not to mention Nukite is B rank yet stronger than FRS, so this logic just falls apart at the seams.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> [=VolatileSoul;54461227]Hussain, Naruto flat out said he'd need the Kyuubi to fight Sasuke.
> pop out of the stomach area or something
> 
> He clearly didn't think he was superior with his current strength.


Sasuke flat out said he needs the EMS to fight Naruto. 
pop out of the stomach area or something
pop out of the stomach area or something
pop out of the stomach area or something


> He used it defensively to make a barrier of flame. He didn't use it on Kabuto.


Kabuto sensed it and back tracked right away. That fact remain unchanged 



> No one slower ever managed to do it, and we have nothing saying anyone slower can dodge it either.


it was never used on a fast opponent (with decent speed?) heads on. So, thinking it "at least" needs someone of A's level is fan-fiction. 


> It intercepted Ay at his maximum speed, so if it isn't, it's at the very least negligibly close.
> 
> Also, Gaara guarded against Enton which travels. Ama does not.



The sand is clearly is not as fast as A. 

If the Amatersu does not, then how did Obito stop it? 
How was Sasuke able to run away?

Because it's clearly moving in the battle he had with itachi. 


> I'm not about to argue in circles Hussain.
> 
> I'm only saying this is why Susano'o has no feats of tanking FRS... because it was already a foregone conclusion that it would tank it and the attack would be pointless.
> 
> We have nothing that shows FRS can bust it either, just the implication that it can't.


The Susanoo was NOT able to tank Danzo's attack (B-Rank). It's illogical to assume that it will
to a much stronger attacl.  


> Kirin is S rank and arguably stronger than FRS, yet Susano'o stopped it.


1- The Susanoo Sasuke was using against Danzo is a stage lower than the one itachi used.
2- Sasuke's Susanoo does not have additional mirror to stop the attacks or weakened it.  



> Not to mention Nukite is B rank yet stronger than FRS, so this logic just falls apart at the seams.



Who said it's stronger? 
Nukite is sharper because it's used for that whole purpose. FRS is not.

In the same sense the Rassengan is stronger than the Chidori, but it's effect on the tank was direct, but the Rassengan does damage from the inside out so to speak. 

Again, different type of attacks, result in different type of wounds.

Just like how Naruto's 9 FRS did not cut Kaguya, but Kakashi's Raikiri did.
Are you going to tell me that Kakashi's Raikiri is stronger than all 9 FRS combined? 

pop out of the stomach area or something
pop out of the stomach area or something

Or Naruto's chakra arm is stronger than all of that because it did a physical damage?
pop out of the stomach area or something


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Sensing trolls Amaterasu. If Naruto knows what it is.
> 
> When Itachi was going to use Amaterasu, Nagato sensed it, and with such anticipation that Naruto had time to move out and Killer Bee had time to throw a sword to Itachi.
> 
> ...



so after sensing he does what exactly?

lets see who sensed and trolled amaterasu


juubito. u want to compare juubito to Sm naruto?

u mean KCM naruto someone who by his own admission is alot stronger than SM naruto. yes that guy got out of the way of amaterasu. though do u remember his comments after?

did itachi miss? was what he said, if he believed he dodged it. he wouldnt have said that. so this is KCM naruto who avoided A, still wasnt sure if he avoided the attack. naruto can sense it all he wants he cant physically do anything about it

killer bee is also faster than Sm naruto though

lol so are u saying naruto intercepts amaterasu before it happens or simply out runs it? cuz no feats suggest such

we have juubito, A, kabuto. who dealt with amaterasu...all are horribly superior to SM naruto

hebi sasuke had oral rebirth or would have gotten caught. naruto has no such technique.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> we have juubito, A, *kabuto*. who dealt with amaterasu...all are horribly superior to *SM naruto*





Both have SM. Kabuto did not even show any sensing ability on par with Naruto who sensed the entire goddamn country.


----------



## LostSelf (Oct 3, 2015)

I don't find any sense in what you're comparing.

Is Nagato Juubito? No.
Did Nagato sense Amaterasu a long, long time before it was fired? Yes.
Did Killer Bee had enough time, after Nagato sensed it, to throw a sword to Itachi before Amaterasu or Koto happened? Yes.
Is Killer Bee juubito? No.

So, yes. Naruto can move, Naruto can make clones, Naruto can attack, if Killer Bee could do so and Nagato had to protect Itachi after Nagato sensed it.

Naruto senses, like Nagato did, Naruto acts. It has nothing to do with outspeeding. And somehow you're putting Hebi Sasuke as an example, and Ei, when they have no sensing ability.

And laughs, on top of it. Seriously?


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Both have SM. Kabuto did not even show any sensing ability on par with Naruto who sensed the entire goddamn country.



lol 

i know and both have abilities to deal with amaterasu. naruto doesnt

try harder


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

speaking of the Joke that is Amatersu
pop out of the stomach area or something
pop out of the stomach area or something

oh my! It's clearly got powered up with the wind and back fired on Temari killing her! 



Icegaze said:


> lol
> 
> i know and both have abilities to deal with amaterasu. naruto doesnt
> 
> try harder



Must be why Zetsu said Naruto stronger than him
or the Rassengan taking a huge shit on that pathetic jutsu. 

Troll harder next time. you still couldn't say anything about the Rassengan shitting on that garbage jutsu!


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> I don't find any sense in what you're comparing.
> 
> Is Nagato Juubito? No.
> Did Nagato sense Amaterasu a long, long time before it was fired? Yes.
> ...



my bad

naruto simply hasnt shown the physical ability to do squat here. 

dont see how he forms seals for clones quicker than sasuke can set his sights on him

Also using itachi slow activation as sasuke feats is deserves a laugh dont you think

sasuke activates amaterasu alot quicker than itachi does, by feats. 

lets try using sasuke activation shall we

but say naruto uses a clone, the clone gets trolled and enton is left on the battlefield. enton on the field helps sasuke, as it isnt something that would go away and it will naturally spread.


----------



## Icegaze (Oct 3, 2015)

Hussain said:


> speaking of the Joke that is Amatersu
> pop out of the stomach area or something
> pop out of the stomach area or something
> 
> ...



your right rasengan did

sadly FRS got swallowed up by it twice

dry your tears


----------



## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

What a "less than smart" example. 

you clearly don't know what a combo attack is, or how it works do you? 

Gaara's sand got destroyed because of the Mizukage's water/oil body. Did that stop the sand from being a combo
with the Mizukage's water jutsu against Madara?

Suigetsu water body is weak to electric. However, did the fact hat lightning > Water stopped the fact that they
worked together (again, in that combo against Madara)

and so on. You're using a stupid example to 2 jutsu that MEANT to be like that for the sake of the combo
and arguing that it's the same thing if they were against each other, are you for real? 


and even if we went with you for the sake of the argument, who said Naruto must use his FRS to begin with? 
Why isn't this more than enough?


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Obito got a hole made in his back from a Rassengan. the Juubi did not from TBBs and other shit was throwing towards it.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Juubi was helpless agains Hashirama's Gates, when Obito trashed them.
> 
> Kaguya's bons destroyed Kakashi's PS as better, and yet, it did not go through Obito's body in the same way. I guess Obito's body >> PS's?



Thats because JJ Obito was vulnerable to sage chakra. 
Regular ninjutsu didn't effect him. We know for a fact that FRS is stronger than rasengan. That isn't open to debate.

Juubito was stronger than Juubi. Thats why he trashed Hashirama's gates while Juubi couldn't.

Probably Kaguya can adjust the strength and speed of his bones. She doesn't need to hit a humanoid with PS penetrating power. Also wasn't that after Kaguya gained new powers ? : pop out of the stomach area or something

Again, Hachibee can't tank A's Karatechop, Susano'O in its lower stages can. It is obviously more durable pound per pound, at least against slashing and piercing damage.


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## Trojan (Oct 3, 2015)

> [=Grimmjowsensei;54461522]Thats because JJ Obito was vulnerable to sage chakra.
> Regular ninjutsu didn't effect him. We know for a fact that FRS is stronger than rasengan. That isn't open to debate.


Obito was healing himself from the FRS-Amatersu hit.
pop out of the stomach area or something
(the smoke for the healing) 



> Juubito was stronger than Juubi. Thats why he trashed Hashirama's gates while Juubi couldn't.


Yes, but as I said previously the Juubi was able to tank his TBB (which is of natural power) when
a mush weaker Rassengan did much damage to Obito. 


> Probably Kaguya can adjust the strength and speed of his bones. She doesn't need to hit a humanoid with PS penetrating power. Also wasn't that after Kaguya gained new powers ? : pop out of the stomach area or something


The speed and power (when she killed obito) had to be stronger than before so the gravity does not
effect them as much (like in her first attempt). And yes, Kaguya became stronger overall, that does not mean that she will use all the new chakra at once in every attack, no? 
Otherwise, she would have run out of chakra is she used all her strength in that attack.. 

With that being said, it could be stronger by God knows how much... 


> Again, Hachibee can't tank A's Karatechop, Susano'O in its lower stages can. It is obviously more durable pound per pound, at least against slashing and piercing damage.



There is a different between the Hachibi ITSELF and it's *horn*. Not all the body part are as powerful. the Hachibi's tails got torn apart from Obito's Shurkins or Minato's Kunais. Yet, he physically, was able to slow down the Juubi's TBB.

Kurama's tails are even stronger than the Hachibi and it took on Naruto's huge Rassengans/V1 Juubi's tail, Obito's fire jutsu...etc

Not all the Bijuus are the same in those regard...


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## Kyu (Oct 3, 2015)

Near the tail end of the Kage summit arc, Sasuke was running on fumes and losing his vision at random intervals - he isn't beating Naruto under those disadvantageous circumstances - ignoring outside interference. 

Besides the fact there's no way Naruto could've come to an accurate conclusion on the most plausible outcome given his lack of intel on what Sasuke could even do and how would his sage powers stack up. He was indeed full of shit _if_ he were talking about facing an exhausted post-Danzo confrontation Sasuke.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Obito was healing himself from the FRS-Amatersu hit.
> pop out of the stomach area or something
> (the smoke for the healing)


pop out of the stomach area or something
Link removed
"ninjutsu doesn't work, senjutsu does."

Manga says it not me.



> Yes, but as I said previously the Juubi was able to tank his TBB (which is of natural power) when
> a mush weaker Rassengan did much damage to Obito.


When did this happen ? 
I remember Mindless juubi losing half of his body because of his own TBB. 



> The speed and power (when she killed obito) had to be stronger than before so the gravity does not
> effect them as much (like in her first attempt). And yes, Kaguya became stronger overall, that does not mean that she will use all the new chakra at once in every attack, no?
> Otherwise, she would have run out of chakra is she used all her strength in that attack..
> 
> With that being said, it could be stronger by God knows how much...


Even if you argue that she can't control strength and speed of her attacks, by the virtue of becoming stronger(going by zetsu's words it was significant) her attacks became stronger thats why they were able to penetrate Kakashi's PS.
So no, Obito's body isn't tougher than Kakashi's PS, the attack Kaguya used was stronger.



> There is a different between the Hachibi ITSELF and it's *horn*. Not all the body part are as powerful. the Hachibi's tails got torn apart from Obito's Shurkins or Minato's Kunais. Yet, he physically, was able to slow down the Juubi's TBB.


Actually yes, his horn should be one of the most durable parts of his body.



> Kurama's tails are even stronger than the Hachibi and it took on Naruto's huge Rassengans/V1 Juubi's tail, Obito's fire jutsu...etc
> 
> Not all the Bijuus are the same in those regard...



I didn't say Hachibee is as durable as Kyuubi. I just said Bijuu durability is overrated overall. 
Gamabunta could casually chop off Shukaku's arm with a steel sword. 
Bijuu haven't shown any special durability against piercing or slashing attacks.  V2 Susano'o is better than the 2nd strongest Bijuu in that regard.


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## David (Oct 3, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I didn't say Hachibee is as durable as Kyuubi. I just said Bijuu durability is overrated overall.
> Gamabunta could casually chop off Shukaku's arm with a steel sword.
> Bijuu haven't shown any special durability against piercing or slashing attacks.  V2 Susano'o is better than the 2nd strongest Bijuu in that regard.



I agree that slicing attacks are often OP in Naruto, but to be fair, Shukaku had a resistance feat when Gamabunta commented on how he was barely able to cut the Bijuu's arm off.  Because of P2, though, I agree with you for the most part.


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## Icegaze (Oct 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> What a "less than smart" example.
> 
> you clearly don't know what a combo attack is, or how it works do you?
> 
> ...



Because that jutsu has no feats at all to suggest it breaches susanoo . Nice try though .

what's ur argument , Danzo futon breached Sasuke by attacking the exposed back of it so a bunch of Odama rasengans will work?


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## LostSelf (Oct 4, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> my bad
> 
> naruto simply hasnt shown the physical ability to do squat here.
> 
> ...



Is not that Itachi's activation is slow. He could activate it and burn the stomach of Jiraiya's justu pretty quickly.

Naruto hasn't shown the physical speed to avoid the flames by itself. But it's not the flames that i'm saying he will outspeed. It's the buildup.

When Nagato sensed the buildup, everybody could act before Amaterasu was fired. But that's because they acted while the chakra was being gathered to use Amaterasu, not because they moved faster than ammy.

You see, sensing gives the user a huge advantage in incoming attacks. Sensing allowed Madara to inmediately sense Tobirama when he appeared with Hiraishin out of nowhere, too. And allowed Killer Bee to attack Itachi (thanks to Nagato) before Itachi could finish the jutsu. 

IF Naruto has the same skills or similar than Nagato when it comes to sensing, he could act while Sasuke is building up the chakra (Not when he uses Ammy, because otherwise, Naruto won't dodge or do anything about it) and throw a smokebomb or make clones to obstruct line of sight. Anything, taking in mind how much time Bee had to act. Thanks to Nagato sensing the chakra build up way before the jutsu was even used (that's the key part for Naruto to counter it).

Obito also mentions it. He blocked Amaterasu sensing the buildup of chakra and mounted a defense before the jutsu was used, not after. That's what sensing does, though.


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## Icegaze (Oct 4, 2015)

I get u lost self 
However u would notice juubito could mount up a defence based on his jutsu 

I under u think naruto could move and maybe he can 

No point arguing it 

So Yh he throws a smoke bomb before Amaterasu is released . fair enough


However while he needs to do such to avoid death by Amaterasu . Sasuke can jump over naruto best attack with little to no effort


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## Blu-ray (Oct 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Sasuke flat out said he needs the EMS to fight Naruto.
> 298 human puppets
> 298 human puppets
> 298 human puppets


How does "I want to destroy Naruto with my full power" translate to "need?"



> Kabuto sensed it and back tracked right away. That fact remain unchanged


He wasn't the one being targeted in the first place.



> it was never used on a fast opponent (with decent speed?) heads on. So, thinking it "at least" needs someone of A's level is fan-fiction.



There's no evidence whatsoever someone slower can dodge it, so we have no reason to assume they can. Ay himself felt the need to use his maximum speed.



> The sand is clearly is not as fast as A.



Is that why it could intercept Ay who was mere inches from Sasuke's face?



> If the Amatersu does not, then how did Obito stop it?



By preemptively blocking it with is staff. He sensed it coming before it was even used.



> How was Sasuke able to run away?


He started running before it was even used and _still_ got hit. Not to mention Itachi did not want to kill him.



> Because it's clearly moving in the battle he had with itachi.


The flames generated along Itachi's line of sight. Not to mention it appears on the target in literally every other instant of it's use.



> The Susanoo was NOT able to tank Danzo's attack (B-Rank). It's illogical to assume that it will
> to a much stronger attacl.


The technique was boosted by the Baku's suction and it did tank it, even if it sustained damage.

And like I said, rank isn't indicative of power, unless you wanna assert FRS being stronger than Evening Elephant.



> 1- The Susanoo Sasuke was using against Danzo is a stage lower than the one itachi used.
> 2- Sasuke's Susanoo does not have additional mirror to stop the attacks or weakened it.


This presumes Itachi used his strongest form of Susano'o. Doubtful since it takes time to form the higher stages.



> Who said it's stronger?
> Nukite is sharper because it's used for that whole purpose. FRS is not.



It going through like butter, something FRS couldn't even scratch says it's stronger. Meanwhile nothing says FRS is stronger than Nukite.



> In the same sense the Rassengan is stronger than the Chidori, but it's effect on the tank was direct, but the Rassengan does damage from the inside out so to speak.


Yes. The difference here is, FRS did no damage whatsoever. Both Rasengan and Chidori dealt damage, even if in different forms.



> Again, different type of attacks, result in different type of wounds.



Okay then I'll compare two techniques that have virtually the same mechanics.

Nukite and Chidori/Raikiri have the same principle behind their attacks, yet Nukite is far stronger despite being B rank while Chidori/Raikiri is A/S rank respectively.



> Just like how Naruto's 9 FRS did not cut Kaguya, but Kakashi's Raikiri did.
> Are you going to tell me that Kakashi's Raikiri is stronger than all 9 FRS combined?
> 
> 298 human puppets
> 298 human puppets


Kamui Raikiri warps away whatever is cut. It doesn't deal in brute force and it can't be tanked, which goes for Kamui in general. Not comparable.



> Or Naruto's chakra arm is stronger than all of that because it did a physical damage?
> 298 human puppets



Dunno because that, like the entire fight, simply made no sense.

In any case my point still stands.


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## Icegaze (Oct 4, 2015)

@volatile what do u think of naruto sensing Amaterasu building up and using smoke bomb to block LoS?


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## Matty (Mar 12, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Naruto wins obviously.
> 
> His sensing ability should be a huge advantage over Sasuke. And he is really better than Sasuke in everything
> else (beside the Genjutsu).



Yes his sensing will help but how does he deal with susano'o...


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## Android (Mar 12, 2016)

Matty said:


> Yes his sensing will help but how does he deal with susano'o...



with FRS  
that susanoo was busted by danzo fodder fuuton blades 
FRS >>>>> FUUTON BLADES 
or just use a barrage of giant rasengans


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 12, 2016)

I have a question for you guys.

How do you think Gyūki's punch would stack up against Sasuke's ribcage Susanō? I mean, what do you think would happen if Gyūki straight-up decked Sasuke's ribcage Susanō with a full swing. 

Know what I think would happen? If something as relatively underwhelming as Liger Bomb (in terms of area-of-effect) managed to crack two of its ribs, a punch that sent the Gōbi sprawling hundreds of meters would absolutely pulverize it.

Okay, now let's compare Gyūki's punch with Senpō: Ōdama Rasengan. Gyūki might have punted Kokuō 400-500 meters, so around 4-5 times Kokuo's body height. How high did Senpō: Ōdama Rasengan launch Pain's summons? Way, way higher than that. It looks like the boss trio are entire kilometers above the Konoha crater, they're at the same altitude as the clouds in the distance, and clouds are at a minimum 2-3 kilometers high.

So Senpō: Ōdama Rasengan is  seemingly a *lot* stronger than Gyūki's punch. How does Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan stack up to its smaller variant? Well, it's at the _base minimum_ multiple times more powerful. For reference, compare Naruto's base Rasengan to an base Ōdama Rasengan. The differential in sheer destructive output, therefore energy and power, is _huge_. We're talking like, 10 times more powerful at least.

So basically, Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan obliterates Susanō ribcages (Sasuke's at least) many, *many* times over. I daresay it even fucks up his skeletal Susanō given such a gap between Gyūki's punch and that. 

Now, Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasentarengan? You're basically multiplying everything I just said, by *27.* Do I think Sasuke's Susanō gets twenty times stronger between stages? Fuck no. Not even close to that. A technique of that scale would blow Sasuke's _muscled_ Susano fucking clean open, and leave the Uchiha a mangled corpse.

We all know how the next part goes. Rasenshuriken is _considerably_ more powerful than Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasentarengan; Kyūbi more or less was stunned by the latter, but taken out momentarily by Rasenshuriken.

So when people think Rasenshuriken is useless against Sasuke's Susanō, remember this. Personally? I'd say Rasenshuriken could fuck up even Sasuke's Final Susanō. Maybe not completely bust it, but two of them would definitely do the trick.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 12, 2016)

Naruto wins easily because they're in character. Sasuke is going to rush in head first arrogantly with his Katana thinking he's badass as usual and Naruto will one-shot him with a Frog Kata punch that Sasuke has no way of countering or even noticing. That ends the fight right then and there, but for those who think the fight would be longer and go some other way Naruto would still win. 

If Sasuke prepares to use Amaterasu Naruto will sense it ahead of time and either use a smoke bomb or create clones to stop the flames from hitting him and obscure Sasuke's sight. As for the Rasenshuriken vs. Amaterasu argument, the Rasenshuriken wins. MS Sasuke's Amaterasu is not powerful or large enough to instantly consume SM Naruto's RS and turn it into raw flames after it's been thrown. It'd hit Sasuke and blow him and his Susanoo apart ending the fight once again. Sasuke's high-leveled Susanoo was ripped apart by a combined attack from Danzo and his Baku. How on earth does the most powerful wind release technique empowered by Sage Mode not instantly demolish Sasuke's Susanoo that cannot withstand an attack that is canonically much weaker?! 

Naruto wins in CQC easily, Naruto wins in any extended non-CQC match up because MS Sasuke's Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi isn't good enough at this point to pose a threat to Naruto's Giant Rasengan or Rasenshuriken (as well as obscure or occupy his sight) that would overpower and tear through the Amaterasu and hit Sasuke before he could do much especially since Naruto can sense when he's about to use it.


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 12, 2016)

But seriously, these guys are equal. It's been made apparent canonically.


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## ARGUS (Mar 12, 2016)

Sasuke wins this 

 -- FRS gets lit up by Amaterasu or enton and then turned moot 

 -- Rasengans are tanked by any Susanoo above ribcage. If Naruto uses a giant barrage of them up close then Sasuke swings his Susanoo blade in a 360 motion and all of Naruto and his clones are diced in half. The closer Naruto gets to Susanoo the more the likelihood of him getting skewered 

 -- summons are one shotted by Amaterasu 

 -- V4 susanoos enton projectiles plus a katon fired in the sky helps him prep Kirin and then Naruto gets blown to bits


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## Matty (Mar 12, 2016)

Sasuke should win. They are clearly equals, but unless Naruto can keep frog song, Sasuke has a better matchup


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 12, 2016)

Sasuke doesn't really have a better match-up, though.

Amaterasu gets sensed and blocked by clones, or just flat-out isn't used because of smoke bombs and whatnot.

Everything else under Sasuke's arsenal is more or less useless. Susanō gets beaten like a child (see my post above). Sasuke's genjutsu gets sensed and also avoided. Close-quarters is hilariously skewed in Naruto's favor. Naruto has an entire army of summons to back him the fuck up.


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## Matty (Mar 12, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> with FRS
> that susanoo was busted by danzo fodder fuuton blades
> FRS >>>>> FUUTON BLADES
> or just use a barrage of giant rasengans



Wasn't that like v1 susanoo?


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## ARGUS (Mar 12, 2016)

Matty said:


> Wasn't that like v1 susanoo?



Nope that was V3 susnaoo 
But FRS is still useless infront of Amaterasu since it will just get consumed


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## shade0180 (Mar 12, 2016)

FCD.


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 12, 2016)

What the hell is Sasuke going to do if Food Cart Destroyer is used on him?

Straight-up.

Susanō can't compare to a boss summon in brute force.


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## ARGUS (Mar 12, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What the hell is Sasuke going to do if Food Cart Destroyer is used on him?
> 
> Straight-up.
> 
> Susanō can't compare to a boss summon in brute force.



susano either tanks, or sasuke coats it with amatearsu to leave the summon burning in pain. 

thats if he even gets caught, because sasuke would see the summon and dodge the blow before it even hits


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 12, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> susano either tanks, or sasuke coats it with amatearsu to leave the summon burning in pain.



I was just talking how it can get out, not if it can tank it. Obviously it can tank it. 

Amaterasu is a fair point though, nice.



> thats if he even gets caught, because sasuke would see the summon and dodge the blow before it even hits



Nah.


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## Saru (Mar 12, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What the hell is Sasuke going to do if Food Cart Destroyer is used on him?
> 
> Straight-up.
> 
> Susanō can't compare to a boss summon in brute force.




Chidori Eiso, V3 Susano'o, Susano'o Arrow, Body Flicker, Enton... There are quite a few viable options.​


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## ARGUS (Mar 12, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I was just talking how it can get out, not if it can tank it. Obviously it can tank it.
> 
> Amaterasu is a fair point though, nice.





> Nah.



are you implying that sasuke just gets bltized by FCD?


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 12, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> are you implying that sasuke just gets bltized by FCD?



If distracted? If he's already using Susanō so physical movement is already hindered in the first place?

Yeah.


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## Saru (Mar 12, 2016)

What is this about Susano'o hampering movement?


*Spoiler*: __ 










If Sasuke's using a higher level of Susano'o he can still use Chidori Eiso, step out of it, attack the toad with Susano'o or Enton, etc...​


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## ARGUS (Mar 12, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> If distracted? If he's already using Susanō so physical movement is already hindered in the first place?
> 
> Yeah.


Susanoo strikes faster than the user himself. Susanoo doessnt hamper movement, 
only the drawbacks after using it would do such thing 

essentially why Sasuke could never tag juubito, but did so with his susanoo later on


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## shade0180 (Mar 12, 2016)

Are you guys saying that MS sauce is faster than 100% Kyuubi who is as fast as Madara and Hashirama.





> essentially why Sasuke could never tag juubito, but did so with his susanoo later on



MS sauce =/= EMS sauce. Also everyone got used to Juubito's speed later on..


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 12, 2016)

Saru said:


> What is this about Susano'o hampering movement?
> 
> If Sasuke's using a higher level of Susano'o he can still use Chidori Eiso, step out of it, attack the toad with Susano'o or Enton, etc...​



I said it *hampers* movement, not completely immobilizes him. The whole 'every single one of my cells are hurting' kind of implies that, no?

Obviously Sasuke's speed isn't the same when using Susanō than when not. That's a given, no two ways about it. Eternal Mangekyō is a different story.

Not sure how he's going to attack with Chidori Eiso if his Susanō is completely smushed by Gamabunta/Gamaken/Gamahiro, unless he sticks it through Susanō (not gonna happen), or deactivates Susanō to use it effectively, at which point he gets crushed. 



> Susanoo strikes faster than the user himself. Susanoo doessnt hamper movement,
> only the drawbacks after using it would do such thing
> 
> essentially why Sasuke could never tag juubito, but did so with his susanoo later on



That's what I'm saying, dude. Susanō's drawbacks hurt the user drastically, so naturally movement is hampered.


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## Android (Mar 13, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> Sasuke wins this
> 
> -- FRS gets lit up by Amaterasu or enton and then turned moot
> 
> ...



utter bullshit  
sasuke couldn't even lit up danzo fuuton blades  
and combining amaterasu with FRS was naruto idea in the first place 
also susanoo tanking a barrage is very stupid , when a far stronger susanoo blade was stoped by a chakra arm 
also that barrage was able to put the kyuubi on it's ass and stun him 
kyuubi >>>>> v3 susanoo 
also rasengan >>> amaterasu like we saw in canon 
so FRS fucks up sasuke and his susanoo


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