# Can we stop using this “people say” nonsense to downplay Kaido?



## Shiroryu (Aug 31, 2019)

Over and over again I keep on hearing people say that Kaido’s title doesn’t matter because the quote   was “People say that Kaido is the WSC.” This argument is very stupid for multiple reasons:

1. All titles are based on the opinion of the public. WB was WSM and Mihawk is WSS because people think that they are the strongest.

2. Oda himself implied that Kaido is the strongest in an SBS:

*Spoiler*: __ 




*Odacchi!! In the sbs from volume 82 you told us how to escape from Akainu, bears, ghosts and the like. But when I try to do this before my angered mother I'm just beaten up... Is my mother stronger than Akainu?* P.N. Star Fairy 

*O:* You better watch out! you're being too brash! A mother is the strongest living being in the world, even stronger than Kaido!! Don't you dare do it again! But, you know, your mother loves you more than anyone else.



Why would Oda choose to say “even stronger than Kaido!!” if there were people stronger than him. Akainu was already involved in the question, why not say “even stronger than Akainu!!” if Akainu really is stronger than Kaido?

3. Why even bother calling Kaido the WSC if it’s not true? There is literally no reason for Oda to lie to the audience about Kaido being the WSC. It would add nothing to the story and only cause misconceptions.

4. Even if the “people say” part actually has any meaning in the story (it doesn’t), there’s a very logical explanation: Imu. Imu is a secret character that the public doesn’t know about, so the “people say” part can be used to exclude Imu and only Imu since all other top tiers are known to the world. 

Frankly, saying that Kaido’s title isn’t legit is just a way of saying that you’re biased and want to put your favs above Kaido for no good reason.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

WSM > WSC


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## Steven (Aug 31, 2019)

Big Mom(Mother)>Kaido

Oda says so


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## AmitDS (Sep 1, 2019)

I'll just go ahead and disagree with both parties and say that WSC refers to him being the strongest thing/non human entity/beast/creature and isn't the same as World's Strongest Man/Pirate etc. which is supported by Big Mom drawing with him.

Had WSC meant the same as WSM or WSP then WB would have been the WSC and Kaido would have only had this title for 2 years. Also it's weird that people keep referring to Kaido as creature instead of pirate or man if according to everyone creature encompasses man/pirate. Why isn't Kaido called the strongest pirate? Why wasn't WB called the WSC? Why did Shanks stop him, Big Mom draw with him and put WB above him?


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## Sherlōck (Sep 1, 2019)

Now lets look at the long list of top tiers Kaido beat.
..




























.


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 1, 2019)

This day i saw that even what appeared as official can be wrong 

Gorosei have been called the World's Greatest Power twice , also was called "Supreme Leaders of the World Government"


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## Dellinger (Sep 1, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Now lets look at the long list of top tiers Kaido beat.
> ..
> 
> 
> ...


Roger and WB haven't beaten any top tiers either as far as we know. What kind of dumb logic is that ?


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## Sherlōck (Sep 1, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Roger and WB haven't beaten any top tiers either as far as we know. What kind of dumb logic is that ?



And people didn't claim 1v1 always bet on WB or Roger.

If you are going to take common people's word as gospel then you better have fucking feat to back it up.


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## Dellinger (Sep 1, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> And people didn't claim 1v1 always bet on WB or Roger.
> 
> If you are going to take common people's word as gospel then you better have fucking feat to back it up.



I'm gonna take the narration's words over yours.


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## Corax (Sep 1, 2019)

I doubt that Kaido will beat any top tier on panel. Because even if Shanks or BB will arrive at Wano to help Luffy they are untouchable as next arc villains. At best it will be a draw. His best feat will remain beating post WCI Luffy or force haki Luffy if Onigashima raid will fail.


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## Lawliet (Sep 1, 2019)

1 on 1, always bet on kaidou.


*Spoiler*: __ 



unless you wanna lose your money then go ahead


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## Shiroryu (Sep 1, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> And people didn't claim 1v1 always bet on WB or Roger.
> 
> If you are going to take common people's word as gospel then you better have fucking feat to back it up.


Give me one good reason why you think that Kaido’s title isn’t legit, besides you wanting to put your golden boy Akainu above him


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## Sherlōck (Sep 1, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Give me one good reason why you think that Kaido’s title isn’t legit,



Kaido's title is based on rumor. It's what "*people say*" not a fact like the WSM title of WB.

1v1 always bet on Kaido? Based on what? How many top tiers did he beat for people to claim such? Let me give you an answer. *No One*.

His whole hype and alleged title is based on rumor. The source of rumor? Who knows. 



> besides you wanting to put your golden boy Akainu above him



I don't put Akainu above him though.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiroryu (Sep 1, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Kaido's title is based on rumor. It's what "*people say*" not a fact like the WSM title of WB.
> 
> 1v1 always bet on Kaido? Based on what? How many top tiers did he beat for people to claim such? Let me give you an answer. *No One*.
> 
> ...


WB was WSM because people thought he was the strongest man. Mihawk is WSS because people think he’s the strongest swordsman.

How do you know for a fact that Kaido has never beaten a top tier?


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## Old Man Van (Sep 1, 2019)

Kaido's title is based on a rumor. No doubt that right now, Oda wants you to believe that Kaido is the #1 but bottom line is that the title doesnt put Kaido on a pedestal like Whitebeard.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sherlōck (Sep 1, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> WB was WSM because people thought he was the strongest man. Mihawk is WSS because people think he’s the strongest swordsman.



No. 

WB & Mihawk has official title. There is no "random citizen says" in their title. Stop trying to dehype WB just to hype Laido. 



> How do you know for a fact that Kaido has never beaten a top tier?



Cause Oda didn't say he did? 

His intro is basically how many times he bit the dust not how many times he triumphed over others.


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## Beast (Sep 9, 2019)

bruh, these titles be stupid asf, there should be only one strongest title for It to be taken seriously. 


I’m shocked that BM hasn’t been titled the Worlds strongest woman if I’m honest. 


As for Kaidou, I’m not sure about you but I would need a list of Ws to get hyped not a list of Ls.


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## Shiroryu (Sep 9, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Kaido's title is based on a rumor. No doubt that right now, Oda wants you to believe that Kaido is the #1 but bottom line is that the title doesnt put Kaido on a pedestal like Whitebeard.


All WS titles are inherently based on a rumor.


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## Edogawa (Sep 9, 2019)

Considering his staggering loss record to the Marines and Yonkos, then his title is indeed a rumor. And beside all that, I don't believe Oda cares that much for titles when it comes to organizing the fights. For example: Akainu defeated WB and the other Admirals were handling him without issues.

Titles don't matter in the top tier - as shown by Mihawk vs Shanks rivalry, Kaido vs Big, WB vs Roger. Titles only matter as a goal set for mid and low tiers to dream of surpassing; Zoro wanting to surpass Mihawk as an example, but a swordsman like Shanks wouldn't care about it since he's a top tier himself.


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## Duhul10 (Sep 9, 2019)

Oda said it in the SBS. It hasn't been debatable since quite some time ago.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Old Man Van (Sep 9, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> All WS titles are inherently based on a rumor.



WB and Mihawk's titles are based on accepted facts.


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## Shiroryu (Sep 9, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> WB and Mihawk's titles are based on accepted facts.


Bro the OP world can’t know with 100% certainty at every single moment they are still the WSM/WSS... Someone could have recently surpassed them and the world wouldn’t know that they’re stronger until they prove it. 

Just look at MF WB. A lot of the fandom doubts his title, and they’re right to doubt it because the OP world didn’t know just how much WB was weakened.

Every person with a WS title has it because the “people say” that they’re the strongest.. And in case you’re wondering, Oda never said that “people say” WB/Mihawk are the strongest because the “people say” part is implicit. It was only included in Kaido’s intro because Oda was drawing it out and he wanted to establish Kaido as a legend amongst the OP world. But of course, hardcore/biased OP fans had to scrape the bottom of the barrel by using this very nitpicky argument to delegitimize Kaido’s hype


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 9, 2019)

WSS title is legit for plot reasons


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 9, 2019)

databook confirmed WSS title yet again

cary on


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## Shiroryu (Sep 9, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> databook confirmed WSS title yet again
> 
> cary on


As usual you miss the point. I’m talking about the legitimacy of the titles from the perspective of the OP world. In there, Kaido’s title is just as legit as Mihawk’s and WB’s from the eyes of the public. From the reader’s perspective, we know that the only title is is 100% certain is Mihawk’s since Oda called it legit in actuality while he didn’t do the same for WB and Kaido, but the fact that Oda even bothered to give them their titles means that they were almost certainly true at one point in time. Oda even implied that Kaido’s title is legit in an SBS. Denying Kaido’s title is illogical and only done by those who want to put other people above Kaido. The logical thing to say is that Kaido’s title is legit until proven otherwise in the story.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 9, 2019)

ok but WSM > WSC 

Oldbeard > Kaido


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## Shiroryu (Sep 9, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> ok but WSM > WSC
> 
> Oldbeard > Kaido


Debateable


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## Etherborn (Sep 9, 2019)

All titles are meaningless, come at me.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Duhul10 (Sep 9, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> ok but WSM > WSC
> 
> Oldbeard > Kaido


Men are creatures


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## Red Admiral (Sep 9, 2019)

people say is a legit argument ...

not to downplay Kaido

but for not hand him over the strongest spot for free


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## Shiroryu (Sep 9, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> people say is a legit argument ...
> 
> not to downplay Kaido
> 
> but for not hand him over the strongest spot for free


Mihawk and Whitebeard also got their titles because they earned a great enough reputation within the public to be recognized as WSS/WSM


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## ImpalerDragon (Sep 9, 2019)

Kaido is teh strongest character alive at thius moment. The only above him is shanks because he is the current generations pirate king.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 9, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Mihawk and Whitebeard also got their titles because they earned a great enough reputation within the public to be recognized as WSS/WSM



but ... people like Sengoku and Garp also called White beard as World Strongest Man

when a top tier also call Kaido WSC .... we are good


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## Luke (Sep 9, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Kaido's title is based on a rumor. No doubt that right now, Oda wants you to believe that Kaido is the #1 but bottom line is that the title doesnt put Kaido on a pedestal like Whitebeard.



Agreed.


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## Gianfi (Sep 11, 2019)

Oda even said it in a interview, there is little room for debate. Maybe Imu is stronger, but no one knows about him

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Sep 13, 2019)

I was a "title fan" in the days. But I honestly agree.


WSS and WSM are not more legit than WSC.

They are world perception title. Nothing more, just like fake luffy in saboady is no luffy.

The only difference is :

I -*WB* fought roger and was his only rival at some point. So *Prime* WB is de facto > anyone.

II -*Mihawk* is stated in databook to be the strongest in name *and actuallity + *turned his sword to black. So to date , none did the same bar ryuuma who's level is unknown. 

He also have a plot reason for him to be above everyone else in swordmanship: Zoro dream. (Unless oda intend to make The hidden treasure/bonney use its/her ability on ghandi and turn him to his prime version and is used as EoS final fight for Zoro...).


As for kaido , his title put him above anyone else, but only in _theory_. 
But I honestly don't know. You can perhaps claim oda have plot reasons to make him above the rest , thought it would be hard to prove it.


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## rext1 (Sep 15, 2019)

I dont believe theres any chance that Kaido lives up to the hype that his wankers have conjured up for him.

I genuinely doubt that either he or Big Mom will be in anyone's top ten list EOS. EOS BB, Luffy, Zoro, Akainu, Dragon, Imu, Mihawk, Shanks, Shilliew, Kid, Aokiji will all have feats above the WSC IMO.

EOS Smoker and Coby may even round out the top 12 EOS!

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shiroryu (Sep 15, 2019)

rext1 said:


> I dont believe theres any chance that Kaido lives up to the hype that his wankers have conjured up for him.
> 
> I genuinely doubt that either he or Big Mom will be in anyone's top ten list EOS. EOS BB, Luffy, Zoro, Akainu, Dragon, Imu, Mihawk, Shanks, Shilliew, Kid, Aokiji will all have feats above the WSC IMO.
> 
> EOS Smoker and Coby may even round out the top 12 EOS!


Why would fucking Aokiji be above someone as hyped as Kaido? How can you say that Aokiji > Kaido and not see that you’re biased as hell?

Don’t even get me started on Shiryu


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## Louis-954 (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Over and over again I keep on hearing people say that Kaido’s title doesn’t matter because the quote   was “People say that Kaido is the WSC.” This argument is very stupid for multiple reasons:
> 
> 1. All titles are based on the opinion of the public. WB was WSM and Mihawk is WSS because people think that they are the strongest.
> 
> ...



Because he was* joking around* with a fan in the SBS and the mother line comes across more funny and comedic than saying Akainu. He's not trying to subliminally hint anything about Kaido or anyone else being stronger than xxx or yyy character. He's simply having fun with a fan. 

If you *REALLY* want to take the SBS literally then Big Mom- no, every female character in the series with a child is stronger than Kaido. Oda doesn't give a flying fuck about these power tier debates/discussions/arguments.

That being said, yes, I do believe Kaido is probably stronger than any Marine Admiral, but not because of some silly SBS "hint".

Reactions: Like 4


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## Louis-954 (Sep 15, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> *Considering his staggering loss record to the Marines and Yonkos, then his title is indeed a rumor. *And beside all that, I don't believe Oda cares that much for titles when it comes to organizing the fights. For example: Akainu defeated WB and the other Admirals were handling him without issues.
> 
> Titles don't matter in the top tier - as shown by Mihawk vs Shanks rivalry, Kaido vs Big, WB vs Roger. Titles only matter as a goal set for mid and low tiers to dream of surpassing; Zoro wanting to surpass Mihawk as an example, but a swordsman like Shanks wouldn't care about it since he's a top tier himself.


How is it a rumor? You don't know the circumstances surrounding his defeats/captures or at what point in his life they occurred. If they occurred 20+ years ago or in his teens are you really going to pretend that it has any bearing on his strength today? What if he attacked Shanks or Whitebeard by himself without his crew? How can anyone hold that "loss" against him?

Luffy's been defeated a number of times himself, that doesn't automatically negate his Fifth Emperor title or eventual Pirate King title when he obtains it. Am I not supposed to take Luffy's titles and recent conquests seriously because he was once captured by Buggy in Loguetown or defeated by Crocodile and Lucci at early points in his pirate career? No, of course not.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Hype and titles are irrelevant to be fair. Assume next chapters Zoro wounds Kaido really bad (far worse than Oden). Will he be here a favorite?No,most of his fans will abandon his bandwagon. And this is bound to happen,as someday he will lose to low top tiers,no matter plot or not.


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Why would fucking Aokiji be above someone as hyped as Kaido? How can you say that Aokiji > Kaido and not see that you’re biased as hell?
> 
> Don’t even get me started on Shiryu


Shiryu might end somewhere close due to power creep. For example Zoro fights Kaido and uses normal Enma (still not black) and at least wounds him as bad as Oden did (though due to plot wound should be far worse to show Zoro's progress). Next arc he makes Enma black finally (so stronger) and faces Shiryu arc after next. Of course Shiryu should give him a very hard fight to make it entertaining for the readers. This is how power creep works actually.


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## Shiroryu (Sep 16, 2019)

Louis-954 said:


> Because he was* joking around* with a fan in the SBS and the mother line comes across more funny and comedic than saying Akainu. He's not trying to subliminally hint anything about Kaido or anyone else being stronger than xxx or yyy character. He's simply having fun with a fan.
> 
> If you *REALLY* want to take the SBS literally then Big Mom- no, every female character in the series with a child is stronger than Kaido. Oda doesn't give a flying fuck about these power tier debates/discussions/arguments.
> 
> That being said, yes, I do believe Kaido is probably stronger than any Marine Admiral, but not because of some silly SBS "hint".


Yes he was joking about the mothers part, but why did he choose Kaido as a comparison for power?


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## Louis-954 (Sep 16, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Yes he was joking about the mothers part, but why did he choose Kaido as a comparison for power?


Because Kaido has a 'Worlds Strongest' epithet and the only other person with a comparable epithet (Whitebeard) is dead. Even if Akainu were stronger than Kaido using him in this context doesn't drive the joke home the same way it does when he says Kaido.


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## Dunno (Sep 17, 2019)

Oda has stated that WB was the WSM and that Mihawk is the WSS. He has not stated that Kaido is the WSC. That's the difference.


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## Quipchaque (Sep 17, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Kaido's title is based on a rumor. No doubt that right now, Oda wants you to believe that Kaido is the #1 but bottom line is that the title doesnt put Kaido on a pedestal like Whitebeard.



If it wouldn't put him on a pedastal with Whitebeard then you have to explain why Whitebeard has never earned that title.



Old Man Van said:


> WB and Mihawk's titles are based on accepted facts.



Kaido's too. Is there a single person in the Manga that ever said otherwise?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fujitora (Sep 17, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Now lets look at the long list of top tiers Kaido beat.
> ..
> 
> 
> ...


Let’s look at the list of top tiers whiteboard beat...














.... Do you see how retarded this argument is? You can be stronger but just by a slight margin. Meaning you will win but it will still be a hard fight, and yonkos aren’t gonna stand by idly waiting for kaido to 1vs1 his way to beating them all. If kaido 1vs1 another yonko. Another yonko will be sitting by waiting for the exhausted kaido to come out to finish him off.



MasterBeast said:


> bruh, these titles be stupid asf, there should be only one strongest title for It to be taken seriously.
> 
> 
> I’m shocked that BM hasn’t been titled the Worlds strongest woman if I’m honest.
> ...


All his Ls was him single handedly challenging other yonko crews and or marines and coming out of it unscathed. That’s pretty fucking impressive if you ask me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Sep 18, 2019)

OniKaido said:


> Let’s look at the list of top tiers whiteboard beat...
> 
> .. Do you see how retarded this argument is? You can be stronger but just by a slight margin. Meaning you will win but it will still be a hard fight, and yonkos aren’t gonna stand by idly waiting for kaido to 1vs1 his way to beating them all. If kaido 1vs1 another yonko. Another yonko will be sitting by waiting for the exhausted kaido to come out to finish him off.



WB isn't being hyped by people as 1v1 king. He has a legit title and hype to destroy the world from other top tiers. 

Unlike Kaido's which is dependent on a rumor. If you want me to believe in a rumor then you need to bring evidence.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Turrin (Sep 18, 2019)

WB and Kaidou have tittles that are seemingly contradictory that should tell you that there is suppose to be room for interpretation in these titles. I main that the raw Japanese implies Kaidou title refers to his Zoan fruit making him the strongest species but WB is the strongest man due to his Gura Fruit having world ending powers which puts him well above Kaidou


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## A Optimistic (Sep 18, 2019)

Turrin said:


> WB and Kaidou have tittles that are seemingly contradictory that should tell you that there is suppose to be room for interpretation in these titles.



How are they contradictory? Whitebeard was a corpse when we discovered Kaido's title.


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## Turrin (Sep 18, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> How are they contradictory? Whitebeard was a corpse when we discovered Kaido's title.


If Kaidou simply took over WB title after he died then he would have just been called WSM, not WSC. They are too distinct titles and there is a clear reason for that


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## A Optimistic (Sep 18, 2019)

Turrin said:


> If Kaidou simply took over WB title after he died then he would have just been called WSM, not WSC. They are too distinct titles and there is a clear reason for that



What if Kaido isn't human though?


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## Turrin (Sep 18, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> What if Kaido isn't human though?


That would mean the two titles are different for a reason like I said


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Sep 28, 2019)

Hyperbole.

Akainu exudes a superior ability in lava element, and emits significantly excess profuse of attack DC.


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## Quipchaque (Sep 28, 2019)

Turrin said:


> That would mean the two titles are different for a reason like I said



Yes and that reason is for what "A optimistic" said. Why are you overcomplicating this so much? I don't get it...


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## Turrin (Sep 28, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yes and that reason is for what "A optimistic" said. Why are you overcomplicating this so much? I don't get it...


What who said. 

Look man I’m not over complicating anything by going off what the actual Japanese indicates and that’s that Kaidou is of the strongest species; not that he is thee strongest


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## tejas8055 (Sep 28, 2019)

Turrin said:


> What who said.
> 
> Look man I’m not over complicating anything by going off what the actual Japanese indicates and that’s that Kaidou is of the strongest species; not that he is thee strongest


1 vs 1 always bet on .......


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## Quipchaque (Sep 28, 2019)

Turrin said:


> What who said.
> 
> Look man I’m not over complicating anything by going off what the actual Japanese indicates and that’s that Kaidou is of the strongest species; not that he is thee strongest



The guy you were just talking to. 

The second half I don't even know what that is supposed to mean and it doesn't make sense either. You don't give one single guy a title for a whole race and it contradicts everything and everyone's statements ever made.


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## Bonly Jr. (Sep 28, 2019)

Kaido’s a glorified Diamond Jozu. A tank with a good whack. I wish Oda would show us when Garp bounced his head off the ship deck back in the days.


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## Turrin (Sep 28, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> 1 vs 1 always bet on .......


Kaidou because WB is dead


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## Turrin (Sep 28, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> The guy you were just talking to.
> 
> The second half I don't even know what that is supposed to mean and it doesn't make sense either. You don't give one single guy a title for a whole race and it contradicts everything and everyone's statements ever made.


I don’t know what your second part means


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## Dunno (Sep 28, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> People say, in a 1 vs 1 always bet on .......


Just a slight correction, that is absolutely irrelevant considering the topic of this thread.


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## Steven (Sep 29, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> 1 vs 1 always bet on .......


Nice Rumor...


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## AmitDS (Sep 29, 2019)

Common sense dictates that WSC means that he belongs to the most powerful species (most likely the reason for his hax durability and betting that he'd win since he cannot die as far as anyone knows). This is supported by the fact that he is still placed on the level of Big Mom, Shanks and BB and even below Prime WB. This also is supported by him and Big Mom clashing as equals for a long period of time. Fans just love to wank alpha male wet dreams like Kaido to high heavens and bash women like Big Mom and regular, 'nice guys' like Shanks. The fact that people can be mutants like Big Mom, have hax DF like WB and be haki masters/swordsmen/etc. like Shanks is what allows them to equal him even though he himself is the 'strongest creature'.


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## Dellinger (Oct 13, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Common sense dictates that WSC means that he belongs to the most powerful species (most likely the reason for his hax durability and betting that he'd win since he cannot die as far as anyone knows). This is supported by the fact that he is still placed on the level of Big Mom, Shanks and BB and even below Prime WB. This also is supported by him and Big Mom clashing as equals for a long period of time. Fans just love to wank alpha male wet dreams like Kaido to high heavens and bash women like Big Mom and regular, 'nice guys' like Shanks. The fact that people can be mutants like Big Mom, have hax DF like WB and be haki masters/swordsmen/etc. like Shanks is what allows them to equal him even though he himself is the 'strongest creature'.


No ? The narration says the pirate Kaido is the strongest creature not that the species which he belongs is the strongest creature

Also WB whom you guys say was the strongest was stated to be on the level of the Yonko. Don’t see you mention that


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## J★J♥ (Oct 13, 2019)

People say you have too much free time.


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## AmitDS (Oct 14, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> No ? The narration says the pirate Kaido is the strongest creature not that the species which he belongs is the strongest creature
> 
> Also WB whom you guys say was the strongest was stated to be on the level of the Yonko. Don’t see you mention that



Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know the Japanese word is translated as creature/species AND context is key i.e. he's been shown on par with Big Mom thereby debunking your headcanon that Kaido > Big Mom and Shanks.

If it wasn't clear as day before, Oda just crapped all over your Kaido wank in this very arc where his haki and physical strength was shown to be equal to Big Mom's, she was stated to stand head to head with him and he himself was scared when she invaded with her executives (her kids). Don't get mad at us, blame Oda that the strongest creature couldn't beat Big Mom, Shanks and Whitebeard.

Also as I keep saying, the logic that WSC means he's stronger than Shanks, a human, for example means that when WB was called WSM, Kaido was not WSC. This is because if creature includes man Kaido and WB cannot have their titles at the same time as that would contradict one another. 

*So either Kaido was WSC only for 2 years or WSC means species and doesn't include humans such as WB who was the WSM and the other yonko. *

The yonko are all stated to be on the same level yet WB was separated by the narrative through Big Mom (she said even WB) and through Prime WB being an equal to Roger and called the strongest pirate and strongest man. I personally believe all the emperors are equal and Prime WB was special because of his will power/achievements etc. but I have no confirmation other than the yonko being called the 4 strongest pirates and Shanks being stated to be on WB's level. So either he's marginally stronger in his prime than _current_ Shanks/Big Mom and Kaido or as I said Prime WB just was more successful and had better feats and reputation than Kaido and Big Mom...idk.  It's funny that you think you're debunking me. LOL!


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## Dellinger (Oct 14, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know the Japanese word is translated as creature/species AND context is key i.e. he's been shown on par with Big Mom thereby debunking your headcanon that Kaido > Big Mom and Shanks.


I’ll correct you anyway. Japanese text is clear. Out of every living thing in the world, the pirate Kaido is the strongest creature. There is no mention of Kaido’s species. Just him, being the strongest. Also by your logic WBs title is debunked because Shanks stood as an equal to him. Of course Kaido wouldn’t beat a fellow Yonko as easily as you imply. 



> If it wasn't clear as day before, Oda just crapped all over your Kaido wank in this very arc where his haki and physical strength was shown to be equal to Big Mom's, she was stated to stand head to head with him and he himself was scared when she invaded with her executives (her kids). Don't get mad at us, blame Oda that the strongest creature couldn't beat Big Mom, Shanks and Whitebeard.


Again why would Kaido beat Mom as easily as you imply ? Why aren’t you mentioning that an apprentice Kaido stood on a similar level to Big Mom and WB ?



> Also as I keep saying, the logic that WSC means he's stronger than Shanks, a human, for example means that when WB was called WSM, Kaido was not WSC. This is because if creature includes man Kaido and WB cannot have their titles at the same time as that would contradict one another.
> 
> *So either Kaido was WSC only for 2 years or WSC means species and doesn't include humans such as WB who was the WSM and the other yonko. *
> 
> The yonko are all stated to be on the same level yet WB was separated by the narrative through Big Mom (she said even WB) and through Prime WB being an equal to Roger and called the strongest pirate and strongest man. I personally believe all the emperors are equal and Prime WB was special because of his will power/achievements etc. but I have no confirmation other than the yonko being called the 4 strongest pirates and Shanks being stated to be on WB's level. So either he's marginally stronger in his prime than _current_ Shanks/Big Mom and Kaido or as I said Prime WB just was more successful and had better feats and reputation than Kaido and Big Mom...idk.  It's funny that you think you're debunking me. LOL!


Again Kaido being the strongest doesn’t mean he’ll low diff anyone. OP never worked like that. Just keep in mind that both Kaido and Mom didn’t go all out as per their words. I mean we saw how one didn’t use his dragon abilities and that Mom only had one homie. Big Mom is a monster, her being capable of fighting Kaido on equal terms is just proof that she is a damn Yonko on his level, it doesn’t take anything away from him


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## TheWiggian (Oct 14, 2019)

This whole discussion ends with narration telling us that him being the strongest creature and to bet on in a 1on1 is based on the perception or if you want "rumor" spread by character's in universe.


*Spoiler*: __ 









Based on *"people say in a one on one..."* and *"This pirate is said to be the strongest..."* also the *"Alive..."* you can directly exclude characters like Dragon (Revos), Marines (Admirals) and multiple other character's that don't fall into the pirate category just like dead character's due to *"Alive"*.


Considering all that Kaido's hype looks poor with his fake/®umored title. I hope i was able to brighten Dellinger's mood with this clarification.

Reactions: Like 1


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## tejas8055 (Oct 14, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> This whole discussion ends with narration telling us that him being the strongest creature and to bet on in a 1on1 is based on the perception or if you want "rumor" spread by character's in universe.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


The level of mental gymnastics in this post LMAO.


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## Gledania (Oct 14, 2019)

Or we could simply say that titles are not as important as people want them to be.


For me EoS Zoro's title will be the only 100% legit one for plot reasons (dream achievement , just like luffy).

If there is no plot reasons to back up a title , the title can't be used. I never consired *MF* Whitebeard as WSM , and kaido's title is just more the same. Narration tools are made to show us the world perception. Fake SH are not true SH and gorosei are not supreme leaders of the WG (who is Imu) ...


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## tejas8055 (Oct 14, 2019)

Lihawk and AdmiraL fans are just mad that their fav did not get the 1 vs 1 title. Understandable. But how do these people ignore facts. ROFL.


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## Kisaitaparadise (Oct 14, 2019)

People say nonsense to downplay Kaido


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## Dunno (Oct 14, 2019)

Gledania said:


> Or we could simply say that titles are not as important as people want them to be.
> 
> 
> For me EoS Zoro's title will be the only 100% legit one for plot reasons (dream achievement , just like luffy).
> ...


Luffy didn't lose his arms either, but that doesn't make us question the pictures Oda draws. The text Oda writes in the manga is just as much canon as the pictures are.


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## Gledania (Oct 14, 2019)

Dunno said:


> *Luffy didn't lose his arms either*, but that doesn't make us question the pictures Oda draws.



What are you talking about ?



Dunno said:


> The text Oda writes in the manga is just as much canon as the pictures are.




Of course it is. Whitebeard is canon viewed as the WSM and gorosei is canon known as supreme leaders of the WG.


Those are indeed canon world perceptions.


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## Dunno (Oct 14, 2019)

Gledania said:


> What are you talking about ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: _Luffy losing an arm_ 








Would you say that Kaido one-shotting Luffy or Akainu taking half of Whitebeard's head is also in-universe perception?


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## Gledania (Oct 15, 2019)

Dunno said:


> *Spoiler*: _Luffy losing an arm_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's luffy's perception that his hand will get cut ....

I don't see the link with what I said, you're not contradicting me. Akainu fought with WB.It's a fact, we saw it.

What this have to do with titles?


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> This whole discussion ends with narration telling us that him being the strongest creature and to bet on in a 1on1 is based on the perception or if you want "rumor" spread by character's in universe.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


This is an incredible lack of basic reading comprehension. This 'pirate' is merely describing what Kaido is. It in no way excludes other people. What you should pay attention to is that it says ''Out of every living thing" Are admirals and Dragon alive? then they lose 1v1. You would have a point if it was ''out of every living pirate".


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## Dunno (Oct 15, 2019)

Gledania said:


> It's luffy's perception that his hand will get cut ....
> 
> I don't see the link with what I said, you're not contradicting me. Akainu fought with WB.It's a fact, we saw it.
> 
> What this have to do with titles?


We saw Akainu fighting with WB just as much as we saw that Mihawk was the strongest swordsman in the world. My point is that pictures aren't more true than text, so if you consider the text in the manga to be in-universe perception, then you should also consider the pictures in the manga to be in-universe perception. Thus, it's only a fact that Akainu fought Whitebeard if you accept that what Oda presents in the manga is the truth. If you have some argument for why pictures should be considered more reliable the text, then please share.


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## Gledania (Oct 15, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Thus, it's only a fact that Akainu fought Whitebeard if you accept that what Oda presents in the manga is the truth.


This is an event... not a claim made by people nor the narrator. We *saw *the event happening and they are true. We saw people saying sabo is dead ... yet he was alive. See the difference ? Claims are not 100% true since an event may contradict them in the future. Pica believed he can defeat the marines and fuji. Bellamy did the sane with luffy.




Dunno said:


> *We saw Akainu fighting with WB* *just as much as we saw that Mihawk was the strongest swordsman in the world*



*Yes*.


*No. Only reason I give him some credit of being WSS is plot relevance (Zoro) and the previous 7WL hype being a third pillar of strenght. 

Don't care about his title nor his fights with shanks , especially after the databook was proven wrong.
*
Same logic with WB+Kaido.



Dunno said:


> My point is that pictures aren't more true than text,



Then we may as well argue the fake SH were the true SH but Oda changed his mind in the midle of the arc .




Dunno said:


> if you consider the text in the manga to be in-universe perception, then you should also consider the pictures in the manga to be in-universe perception.



By text , I refer to : people calling him WSS , and intro boxe  calling him WSS. (Same goes for WB).
This are peoples view. Litteraly the same shit with Kaido, the gorosei , and fake SH.


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## Dunno (Oct 15, 2019)

Gledania said:


> This is an event... not a claim made by people nor the narrator. We *saw *the event happening and they are true. We saw people saying sabo is dead ... yet he was alive. See the difference ? Claims are not 100% true since an event may contradict them in the future. Pica believed he can defeat the marines and fuji. Bellamy did the sane with luffy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We have seen that pictures are sometimes in-universe perception. Thus, you cannot say that what we are shown is actual happenings. Why would there be a difference between if Oda writes that something is true or draws that it is true? What people in the manga say are their opinions, what Oda writes is not. We saw that Luffy lost his arm, yet he did not. Pictures are not 100% true either since an event may contradict them in the future. Again, there are false pictures and false text in them manga, so why would you consider pictures more reliable than text?


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## Gledania (Oct 15, 2019)

Dunno said:


> We have seen that pictures are sometimes in-universe perception. Thus, you cannot say that what we are shown is actual happenings.




You can distinguish between luffy pucturing his hands being cut by mihawk , hody picturing the massacre he would do in reverie , and Akainu fighting WB....

.... there is a difference here ...

One is fact the others two are not.... just expectations/forecast....

You know , I shouldn't need to explain you that....



Dunno said:


> Why would there be a difference between if Oda writes that something is true or draws that it is true?



Because in one case ods is showing you an event , on the other hand he write people's perception. People perception may be or not true. Event are 100% true.




Dunno said:


> What people in the manga say are their opinions, what Oda writes is not



Some times the author willingly introduce a character the way the people around him concidere him. Not how *he* view them. Either to make a suprise effect or make this ambiguous, or simply to show people perception in general. This is why he introduced gorosei as supreme rulers while they are not. People *did *believe fake SH are true SH. Reason why Oda used the intro box was to point it out that the fraud worked.



Dunno said:


> Pictures are not 100% true either since an event may contradict them in the future




They are true unless something contradict them or it's clearly emphasised that it's a personal guess.

Akainu vs WB was no imaginary fighg. It wasn't some general delusion by people .....


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> This is an incredible lack of basic reading comprehension. This 'pirate' is merely describing what Kaido is. It in no way excludes other people. What you should pay attention to is that it says ''Out of every living thing" Are admirals and Dragon alive? then they lose 1v1. You would have a point if it was ''out of every living pirate".



Not really. It simply collides with every "living thing" and makes it questionable why Oda decided to introduce Kaido with the WSC tale post WB's death:



> _2.And Kaidou of the Hundred Beasts in particular... / ...*is said to be* the most powerful living creature in the world.
> Flashback!Nami!Franky: What?! *Is he not even human?!*_





> _9
> Luffy: After I take down Kaidou!!! // You’re up next!! Big Mam!!!
> BigMam: ……………?!!
> Sanji: Hurry it up, Luffy!!!
> ...



Hell his own introduction contradicts his hype:



> _[Box: *We must speak of his seven defeats as a pirate*... // ...and the full eighteen times he was captured by Marines and other enemies...!! // Enduring torture after torture, he has lived his life as a criminal.]_



Considering we knew about Kaido before WB's death, analogy dictates he was labeled as the Strongest Living Creature after WB deceased. Before he been simply called *"Yonkou Kaido"* or *"Kaido of the hundred beasts"*.

Which brings us to his official introduction being compared to Mihawk and Whitebeard.


*Spoiler*: __ 




Mihawk:

*Spoiler*: __ 









Mihawk recap post TS:

*Spoiler*: __ 









Whitebeard:

*Spoiler*: __ 




￼ 




And now Kaido:

*Spoiler*: __ 




*Link Removed*







While Mihawk and Whitebeard are directly introduced as the worlds strongest Kaido doesn't receive the same phrase, instead a long story of his rumored hype is being told to spice the narration up. There is a clear difference, how he is perceived by  the folk in universe and not by a clear statement regarding his title to the reader.

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## YellowCosmos (Oct 15, 2019)

The difference is important. In two cases, the author is telling you as a narrator that Whitebeard and Mihawk are the WSM and WSS respectively. In Kaido's case, the author is telling you that people in the world call him the WSC. The first two are much more informative because we can work with the assumption that Oda did consider how their match-ups would more or less go. Kaidou's is much less informative because it's doubtful people really know how Kaidou vs Akainu would go.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Gledania (Oct 15, 2019)

YellowCosmos said:


> The difference is important. In two cases, the author is telling you as a narrator that Whitebeard and Mihawk are the WSM and WSS respectively. In Kaido's case, the author is telling you that people in the world call him the WSC. The first two are much more informative because we can work with the assumption that Oda did consider how their match-ups would more or less go. Kaidou's is much less informative because it's doubtful people really know how Kaidou vs Akainu would go.




This actually show that peoples in general (or *more* peoples ) in that world are more inclined to believe WB and Mihawk are respectively WSM and WSS then there is people ready to believe Kaido is the strongest being.

 But in the end , the 3 titles are world perceptions and need plot relevance and/or feats to hold them.


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## Dellinger (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> This whole discussion ends with narration telling us that him being the strongest creature and to bet on in a 1on1 is based on the perception or if you want "rumor" spread by character's in universe.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



You just further prove you are an illiterate. How does the "this pirate is said to be the strongest" exclude Dragon and the Admirals ?

Also there is no fake hype. Oda has acknowledged the title himself, he is repeatedly stated to be the strongest creature. Heck even in the previous chapter, the dude as an apprentice was fighting against the world's absolute strongest guys and survived. He was the only one who became a Yonko through sheer strength but somehow this is fake hype and poor.



YellowCosmos said:


> The difference is important. In two cases, the author is telling you as a narrator that Whitebeard and Mihawk are the WSM and WSS respectively. In Kaido's case, the author is telling you that people in the world call him the WSC. The first two are much more informative because we can work with the assumption that Oda did consider how their match-ups would more or less go. Kaidou's is much less informative because it's doubtful people really know how Kaidou vs Akainu would go.



Come back when Mihawk and WB get a 10 page introduction on their might and title.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> You just further prove you are an illiterate. How does the "this pirate is said to be the strongest" exclude Dragon and the Admirals ?
> 
> Also there is no fake hype. Oda has acknowledged the title himself, he is repeatedly stated to be the strongest creature. Heck even in the previous chapter, the dude as an apprentice was fighting against the world's absolute strongest guys and survived. He was the only one who became a Yonko through sheer strength but somehow this is fake hype and poor.



Where?


*Spoiler*: __ 









Here?


*Spoiler*: __ 











Dellinger said:


> Come back when Mihawk and WB get a 10 page introduction on their might and title.



Here:



Whitebeard reigns supreme and is once again hyped with Roger as a legendary pirate even after his death.

Now go eat up your L like you always do.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Oct 15, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> WB & Mihawk has official title.


Ok, official meaning what.

Do we have a commission to decide it?

And btw I am the WB fan here and TF I care about that.
Akainu was shit against him before WB getting killed by BB and not him.

If Akainu needs all that just to not even kill WB at that stage then WB in Prime mid diff the magma brat 



Shiba D. Inu said:


> databook confirmed WSS title yet again


Databook means shit when it was debunked several times.

Sabo was dead, was he not.

At least have the balls to say it is important to me so it is important! 



Gledania said:


> For me EoS Zoro's title will be the only 100% legit one for plot reasons (dream achievement , just like luffy).


caugh Biassed


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## Gledania (Oct 15, 2019)

QMS said:


> caugh Biassed




You believe zoro will not be the true WSS once he get the title ?


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## Ren. (Oct 15, 2019)

Gledania said:


> You believe zoro will not be the true WSS once he get the title ?


If you mean WSS as in stronger then any sword man as in a man that has a sword then yes I disagree.

Some are bullshiting their way that EOS Zoro > Roger because Roger used a sword.


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## Gledania (Oct 15, 2019)

QMS said:


> If you mean WSS as in stronger then any sword man as in a man that has a sword then yes I disagree.
> 
> Some are bullshiting their way that EOS Zoro > Roger because Roger used a sword.




I mean in a sword fight.


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## Ren. (Oct 15, 2019)

Gledania said:


> I mean in a sword fight.


I told already if you want to put anyone with a sword that has ever lived as inferior to EOS Zoro then I disagree.

He will be strong as his feats regardless of his title.


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## YellowCosmos (Oct 15, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Come back when Mihawk and WB get a 10 page introduction on their might and title.



Why does the _length_ of the introduction matter more to you than the _type_?

Reactions: Like 3


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

YellowCosmos said:


> Why does the _length_ of the introduction matter more to you than the _type_?



He thinks Kaido's intro is mightier than Mihawk's or Whitebeard's when we constantly had WB being hyped throughout the first half of the story and even after his death kicking Kaido's ass 

Then we have Mihawk who always is reminded on Zoro's way to his goal who will fall much later in the story.

It's his "L" believing in a fraud.

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## Gledania (Oct 15, 2019)

QMS said:


> I told already if you want to put anyone with a sword that has ever lived as inferior to EOS Zoro then I disagree.



You understand what a sword fight is , right ?

Fujitora vs Zoro in a sword fight , you know what it implies ?


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## tejas8055 (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> He thinks Kaido's intro is mightier than Mihawk's or Whitebeard's when we constantly had WB being hyped throughout the first half of the story and even after his death kicking Kaido's ass
> 
> Then we have Mihawk who always is reminded on Zoro's way to his goal who will fall much later in the story.
> 
> It's his "L" believing in a fraud.


The real fraud is Mihawk who always runs away from strong people like Jozu and Vista. Lol he begged Vista for postponement. No other person begged a YC3 LMAO.


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## Ren. (Oct 15, 2019)

Gledania said:


> Fujitora vs Zoro in a sword fight , you know what it implies ?


I already told you.

Sword fight with gravity you want to say!


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## Ssjloke (Oct 15, 2019)

As if that's needed. "Shallow wounds" on Tama


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## Gledania (Oct 15, 2019)

QMS said:


> I already told you.
> 
> Sword fight with gravity you want to say!




That's not a sword fight....


Fuji spamming meteors on Zoro is no sword fight.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> The real fraud is Mihawk who always runs away from strong people like Jozu and Vista. Lol he begged Vista for postponement. No other person begged a YC3 LMAO.



Or Kaido who suffered dozens of defeats but peasants bet on him because they're peasants  while Mihawk remains undefeated with no nasty scars like most characters. 

Casually leaving split islands in his wake.


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## Ren. (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> while Mihawk remains undefeated with no nasty scars like most characters.


Because he fought jack shit

Name me one high tier swordsman that he defeated?

Kaido was introduced this chapter and he already defeated an FM!

WSS nill.


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## Corax (Oct 15, 2019)

QMS said:


> Because he fought jack shit
> 
> Name me one high tier swordsman that he defeated?
> 
> ...


Well Mihawk fought Shanks and they has had multiple draws. As a feat it is better than beating FM,even though it was off panel (but to be fair 90% of One Piece is off panel).


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## Ren. (Oct 15, 2019)

Corax said:


> As a feat it is better than beating FM,even though it was off panel (but to be fair 90% of One Piece is off panel).


Dream on that having off-panel fights with Shanks that was not a top tier is the same level of hype as defeating the MC that is made of rubber with one move that is of brute force.

He had a literally fight for 2 days with BM > duels with Rookie Shanks.

Again nill.

WSS is the strongest top tier in having no feats vs high tier or above.

Only the top tiers that did nothing have less.


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## Corax (Oct 15, 2019)

QMS said:


> Dream on that having off-panel fights with Shanks that was not a top tier is the same level of hype as defeating the MC that is made of rubber with one move that is of brute force.
> 
> He had a literally fight for 2 days with BM > duels with Rookie Shanks.
> 
> ...


Why Shanks wasn't a top tier?Mihawk views one handed Shank's as inferior,and he has perfect judgment on this matter. In verse we have nothing that puts two handed Shanks below one handed.


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## Ren. (Oct 15, 2019)

Corax said:


> Mihawk views one handed Shank's as inferior,and he has perfect judgment on this matter


Damn you want to tell that Shanks from 12 years is superior to Yonko Shanks because Mihawk said so?

Shanks was 20+ then and he was not the MC damn the strongest dude ever for you.

So let me guess he was Yonko level + now only Yonko level.

Just a question do you ever think from another perspective disregarding that the WSS needs to be the most important plot point?

Shannks was superior 12 years and 6 years later became Yonko now you just shit on the Yonko system for a dude that has minimal implication to the balancing of the world superpowers.



Corax said:


> n verse we have nothing that puts two handed Shanks below one handed.


Yes, nothing but age .

Yonko is as strong as WSS needs him to be, to further the agenda that WSS is Yonko+


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## tejas8055 (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Or Kaido who suffered dozens of defeats but peasants bet on him because they're peasants  while Mihawk remains undefeated with no nasty scars like most characters.
> 
> Casually leaving split islands in his wake.


Kaido put down Luffy in one attack post TS in G4, who Mihawk failed to despite not holding back pre TS while Luffy was exhausted from recovering from Magellan's poison. LMAO. And that is the strongest opponent that Mihawk faced without postponement.

And do not bother bringing up his duels with Shanks, That was when Shanks was weak enough to lose a limb to Lord of the Coast which BoS Luffy oneshot.


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## Dellinger (Oct 15, 2019)

YellowCosmos said:


> Why does the _length_ of the introduction matter more to you than the _type_?


Because Kaidos title is the only title Oda has really put an effort to hype


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## YellowCosmos (Oct 15, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Because Kaidos title is the only title Oda has really put an effort to hype



But he has hyped it to a certain extent and no more, because of the _way_ he hyped it. The effort he put it into doesn't entitle anybody to ignore the doubtful aspects Oda also put in there.

Reactions: Like 3


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

QMS said:


> Because he fought jack shit
> 
> Name me one high tier swordsman that he defeated?
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter who he defeated to be the WSS, point is he is WSS and is undefeated. Mihawk being an unexplored swordsman we know nothing about isn't my problem in any way. You can stay mad at this fact not that i care.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> It doesn't matter who he defeated to be the WSS, point is he is WSS and is undefeated. Mihawk being an unexplored swordsman we know nothing about isn't my problem in any way. You can stay mad at this fact not that i care.


Simple Shanks is a high tier and WSS defeated no one!

NEXT!


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## tejas8055 (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> It doesn't matter who he defeated to be the WSS, point is he is WSS and is undefeated. Mihawk being an unexplored swordsman we know nothing about isn't my problem in any way. You can stay mad at this fact not that i care.


Mihawk was completely explored when he begged Vista for postponement, thereby earning his name Posthawk.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 15, 2019)

Bonly Jr. said:


> Kaido’s a glorified Diamond Jozu. A tank with a good whack. I wish Oda would show us when Garp bounced his head off the ship deck back in the days.



And speed so fast that Luffy couldn't react at all. And Jozu is insanely powerful. I don't think he should be used to downplay anyone. He stopped the slash of Mihawk without getting moved at all. Compare that to Fujitora's block against Zoro for reference how crazy that feat really is. And his ice throw is one of the greatest strength feats in this series, defense should be self explanatory. He is probably right up there with Kaido and Big Mom in that regard. Heck we haven't even seen anyone injure this guy and Aokiji got a convenient match up advantage.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

QMS said:


> Simple Shanks is a high tier and WSS defeated no one!
> 
> NEXT!



Good thing people like you got no say on that matter 



tejas8055 said:


> Mihawk was completely explored when he begged Vista for postponement, thereby earning his name Posthawk.



Just like Shanks postponed his fight with the lord of he coast i guess. I can live with that

Reactions: Like 2


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## Quipchaque (Oct 15, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Kaidou because WB is dead



Do you remember why he died? Put Kaido into the same scenarios as Whitebeard and he would most likely steamroll through Marineford without a scratch. And I'm not even joking.


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## tejas8055 (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Good thing people like you got no say on that matter
> 
> 
> 
> Just like Shanks postponed his fight with the lord of he coast i guess. I can live with that


That Shanks was way weaker than the present one. The same can not be said for PostHawk.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> That Shanks was way weaker than the present one. The same can not be said for PostHawk.



But i thought Hawkeye is a weakling?

Reactions: Like 1


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## tejas8055 (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> But i thought Hawkeye is a weakling?


You are spot on with that. Hawkeye is a weakling compared to Yonko. He is YC3 level.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> You are spot on with that. Hawkeye is a weakling compared to Yonko. He is YC3 level.



How is Shanks a yonko then? Does he rely that heavy on his crew? Is Beckman the real yonko then?

Reactions: Like 1


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## tejas8055 (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> How is Shanks a yonko then? Does he rely that heavy on his crew? Is Beckman the real yonko then?


Shanks grew in power after losing his arm and became a Yonko, strong enough to make Akainu piss his pants, something Oda himself confirmed.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> Shanks grew in power after losing his arm and became a Yonko, strong enough to make Akainu piss his pants, something Oda himself confirmed.



Didn't Oda confirm Shanks didn't got weaker from the loss? Also Shanks was already on a level that Whitebeard considers legendary together with Mihawk. 

I thought Akainu was a weakling in your book so what's your point of dragging another weakling into the argument who has nothing to do with this conversation?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Oct 15, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Do you remember why he died? Put Kaido into the same scenarios as Whitebeard and he would most likely steamroll through Marineford without a scratch. And I'm not even joking.


You should be


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Didn't Oda confirm Shanks didn't got weaker from the loss? Also Shanks was already on a level that Whitebeard considers legendary together with Mihawk.
> 
> I thought Akainu was a weakling in your book so what's your point of dragging another weakling into the argument who has nothing to do with this conversation?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

Oh that's cool that Yonkou Shanks still has Mihawk as his rival. This seems to solve all the confusion some Shanks fans got.

Reactions: Like 2


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## tejas8055 (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Oh that's cool that Yonkou Shanks still has Mihawk as his rival. This seems to solve all the confusion some Shanks fans got.


Mihawk is his Ex Rival, Just like Buggy when he was on Roger's crew. And both were Shichibukai and both beat Pre TS Zoro. LMAO.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> Mihawk is his Ex Rival, Just like Buggy when he was on Roger's crew. And both were Shichibukai and both beat Pre TS Zoro. LMAO.



Picture depicts Buggy as Ex-Comrade while Mihawk as a rival. Try again.


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## tejas8055 (Oct 15, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Picture depicts Buggy as Ex-Comrade while Mihawk as a rival. Try again.


The manga depicts Shanks and Buggy as rivals many times. In almost every Roger crew Flashback.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 15, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> The manga depicts Shanks and Buggy as rivals many times. In almost every Roger crew Flashback.



Present Shanks like it's stated with Mihawk or Zoro-Sanji gag rivalry? Never thought you hold Buggy-Sama in such high regard.

That's admirable.


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## Fujitora (Oct 15, 2019)

Louis-954 said:


> Because he was* joking around* with a fan in the SBS and the mother line comes across more funny and comedic than saying Akainu. He's not trying to subliminally hint anything about Kaido or anyone else being stronger than xxx or yyy character. He's simply having fun with a fan.
> 
> If you *REALLY* want to take the SBS literally then Big Mom- no, every female character in the series with a child is stronger than Kaido. Oda doesn't give a flying fuck about these power tier debates/discussions/arguments.
> 
> That being said, yes, I do believe Kaido is probably stronger than any Marine Admiral, but not because of some silly SBS "hint".


Or the mother part could be the joke that even kaido isn’t stronger than mothers huh? But nah that would go against what you people want, and thus even the kaido part is a joke. See both people can play this game of trying to fit something to your narrative, except the burden of proving that the kaido part was a joke too is on you my friend


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## Quipchaque (Oct 15, 2019)

Turrin said:


> You should be



Why? Obviously I'm not saying that Kaido is stronger than Sengoku, Garp and the three admirals combined but none of the Marineford feats even matter against a guy who can fly and tank everything easily and it is not like he would fight all of them at once. The only way we can say Kaido would lose is scaling but those five charas can't really be scaled to anything.


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## Turrin (Oct 15, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Why? Obviously I'm not saying that Kaido is stronger than Sengoku, Garp and the three admirals combined but none of the Marineford feats even matter against a guy who can fly and tank everything easily and it is not like he would fight all of them at once. The only way we can say Kaido would lose is scaling but those five charas can't really be scaled to anything.


Dude Luffy is going to be damaging Kaidou this arc (possibly even Zoro); Yet you don’t think an army of Admirals and Warlords (Mohawk) can even put a scratch on him; that doesn’t make sense unless you think Luffy at the end of this arc will be >> Admirals and Every Warlord significantly, which is fairly nonsensical.

Reactions: Like 3


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## tejas8055 (Oct 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Luffy at the end of this arc will be >> Admirals and Every Warlord significantly, which is fairly obvious.


Fixed.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude Luffy is going to be damaging Kaidou this arc (possibly even Zoro); Yet you don’t think an army of Admirals and Warlords (Mohawk) can even put a scratch on him; that doesn’t make sense unless you think Luffy at the end of this arc will be >> Admirals and Every Warlord significantly, which is fairly nonsensical.



Of course it doesn't make sense but that is how Oda portrayed it so far. 1 scar and a jump of a sky island with 0 damage.


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## Ren. (Oct 16, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Good thing people like you got no say on that matter


No mate this is how it sounds for people that worship the WSS.



TheWiggian said:


> Just like Shanks postponed his fight with the lord of he coast i guess. I can live with that


You know that  Shanks ~ WSS so WSS also gets eat up by Lord of the cost.

As I said both are low high tiers 


TheWiggian said:


> Is Beckman the real yonko then?


Yes, he is a Yonko similar to how Luffy is an emperor.

Kaido one-shots all 3 

You ask how strong is WSS!

You answer Shanks is Yonko level, no one asked you go back to the manga and give the feats that WSS has:

Wait Vista made him stop  but wait he is Yonko+


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## Kinjin (Oct 16, 2019)

How did the thread derail to this extent? Back on topic please.


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## Ren. (Oct 16, 2019)

Kinjin said:


> How did the thread derail to this extent? Back on topic please.


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## Dellinger (Oct 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude Luffy is going to be damaging Kaidou this arc (possibly even Zoro); Yet you don’t think an army of Admirals and Warlords (Mohawk) can even put a scratch on him; that doesn’t make sense unless you think Luffy at the end of this arc will be >> Admirals and Every Warlord significantly, which is fairly nonsensical.


Kaido as an apprentice survived against Roger and Garp and was constantly fighting against Big Mom and WB. Do you realize how insane that is ?


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## Turrin (Oct 16, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Kaido as an apprentice survived against Roger and Garp and was constantly fighting against Big Mom and WB. Do you realize how insane that is ?


Yes; do you realize how insane it is to say he could fight Admirals and Warlords without a single scratch

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Oct 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Yes; do you realize how insane it is to say he could fight Admirals and Warlords without a single scratch


I didn’t say that. I’m saying that his title is completely justified. Tell me another apprentice guy who was fighting against such guys


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## Turrin (Oct 16, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> I didn’t say that. I’m saying that his title is completely justified. Tell me another apprentice guy who was fighting against such guys


I didn’t say his title isn’t justified; I fully believe Kaidou is very strong; I don’t agree he’s the strongest character in One Piece or stronger then WB

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Oct 17, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> Mihawk was completely explored when he begged Vista for postponement, thereby earning his name Posthawk.


Nah mate if you use that logic I can not straw man you into but Dragon has no feats and you put him as a top tier.


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## Ren. (Oct 17, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I don’t agree he’s the strongest character in One Piece or stronger then WB


I am a big fan of WB and WB would have been defeated by Kaido in MF.



Turrin said:


> Admirals and Warlords without a single scratch


No one said that even the manga stated that he was defeated but also that 1vs1 beat on Kaido.
So if the WSS comes my money is on Kaido.

WB without sickness also defeats Kaido but in MF Nah!



Turrin said:


> I don’t agree he’s the strongest character in One Piece or stronger then WB


For the moment he is and WB is dead.

No one has better claims to #1 vs Kaido


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## Turrin (Oct 17, 2019)

QMS said:


> I am a big fan of WB and WB would have been defeated by Kaido in MF.
> 
> 
> No one said that even the manga stated that he was defeated but also that 1vs1 beat on Kaido.
> ...


WB would have probably lost to Kaidou in MF, but not because he wasn’t stronger then Kaidou, but because it wasn’t 1v1, is forces were outgunned, Sengoku stacked the topography in his advantage with Sea Stone walls, Sengoku cause Squad to stab WB before anyone even fought seriously with him, and because WB obviously couldn’t use his world ending DC with Ace and his crew present on the island 

The manga said people say bet on Kaidoi; well people have said a lot of shot like Lucci being unbeatable, enel is a good, etc... Instead of going with random people I go with Buggy and Sengoku

I didn’t dispute that Kaidou by fame is the strongest right now; I however don’t believe he actually is. He’s luffy next big threat and as such he is being built up; then after his defeat he will suddenly not be the strongest anymore


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## AmitDS (Oct 17, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> I’ll correct you anyway. Japanese text is clear. Out of every living thing in the world, the pirate Kaido is the strongest creature. There is no mention of Kaido’s species. Just him, being the strongest. Also by your logic WBs title is debunked because Shanks stood as an equal to him. Of course Kaido wouldn’t beat a fellow Yonko as easily as you imply.
> 
> 
> Again why would Kaido beat Mom as easily as you imply ? Why aren’t you mentioning that an apprentice Kaido stood on a similar level to Big Mom and WB ?
> ...



Him being the strongest creature could still mean that they are referring to his race/species. Naturally he is the strongest creature. This is how the narrative has framed his title following its introduction with the other emperors being stated and shown to be on his level or even greater in some cases (eg. Prime WB). 

And then if we want to take it there Big Mom has been stated to be on Kaido's level numerous times. Shanks as well has been stated to be on his level, in the same WB instance you keep referring to so...

The difference is that in addition to the yonko being hailed as equals there are instances where WB in his prime has gotten extra hype so unlike Kaido who just stalemated Big Mom and couldn't get past Shanks, Prime Whitebeard is the one Big Mom held in a different regard, the one who was a rival to Roger and the one called the WSM in addition to being called an emperor and a pirate on the same level as Kaido/Big Mom/Shanks.

Why aren't you mentioning that apart from being hailed as equals they actually fought for more than a day equally? It doesn't matter what your own made up criteria dictates. Kaido said he'd kill her and they fought ending in neither winning or losing and we saw on panel their haki and physical strength being equal.

It doesn't add anything to him either. You assume that Kaido is stronger than Big Mom and Shanks and just hasn't shown it because reasons despite him actually fighting Big Mom. Big Mom didn't use her DF and he didn't use his so in base they are equals. *It is your headcanon that he somehow has greater power and mastery with his DF than Big Mom has with hers. *Oda's intentions are clear as day.

And why do I need to mention that apprentice Kaido stood on an equal level to them? We don't know for a fact that apprentice Kaido was as powerful as both of them at that time but even if that is the case,  it just supports my point further as even now he's still standing equal to Big Mom. Unfortunately for you, him being younger didn't help him surpass neither Big Mom nor Whitebeard. And again if we wan to bring all this up, Shanks was probably not born at that time when those 3 were on the same crew and look where he is now so by your own logic and the implication of your statement here about Kaido being an apprentice and being on their level, this means Shanks > Kaido, Big Mom, WB since he was a baby when they were with the Rocks and now app. 40 years old he's a  fellow emperor.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 28, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> WSM > WSC


World's Strongest Man = World's Strong Human
World's Strongest Creature = The Strong Living Being

Which one is greater?

Zunisha, Garp, and Imu are the only people who are stronger than him. All of which would have beaten whitebeard tbh, at least old sick whitebeard.



Turrin said:


> WB would have probably lost to Kaidou in MF, but not because he wasn’t stronger then Kaidou, but because it wasn’t 1v1, is forces were outgunned, Sengoku stacked the topography in his advantage with Sea Stone walls, Sengoku cause Squad to stab WB before anyone even fought seriously with him, and because WB obviously couldn’t use his world ending DC with Ace and his crew present on the island
> 
> The manga said people say bet on Kaidoi; well people have said a lot of shot like Lucci being unbeatable, enel is a good, etc... Instead of going with random people I go with Buggy and Sengoku
> 
> I didn’t dispute that Kaidou by fame is the strongest right now; I however don’t believe he actually is. He’s luffy next big threat and as such he is being built up; then after his defeat he will suddenly not be the strongest anymore


Honestly Kaidou would have lost to Whitebeard at mareinford no matter what, but you're right about the stuff, heart attack, and all that.

Whitebeard's sickness took a lot out of him, he was the weakest yonkou of that time, even pre squard. Crocodile was roaring about how he wasn't that weak, and marco was like "damn son, you right, he's hella sick" when squard hit him.


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