# Strongest Kisame can defeat



## Troyse22 (Sep 5, 2016)

I'd venture as far as Pein/Nagato, Itachi.

What do you guys think? What's the strongest Kisame could defeat?

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## Bonly (Sep 5, 2016)

The Bijuu Mode restricted Killer B he fought in canon that didn't use his Acrobat fighting style or partial transformations is the strongest he can prolly beat.

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## DaVizWiz (Sep 5, 2016)

Extended distance (100m) and full knowledge it's Itachi.

He has no viable counter to Water Dome and would drown, assuming Kisame could manifest and sustain this without Killer Bee's massive chakras empowering him and assuming he would do so at start battle (with full knowledge I think he would).

Danzo would slit his own throat and poof well out of the dome with Izanagi or right in front of Kisame and koto him, Onoki would manifest a Jinton pillar and literally erase all of the water by moving it around himself (as he did to Flower Tree World), Minato counters with frogs stalling Kisame until he swims out or tagging all three and having them swim in opposing directions - teleporting to the one that gets out first, Nagato obliterates the entire dome with CST or absorbs it with Preta, Obito warps out of it with Kamui, SM Kabuto uses V2 Manda to swim him out/stall while he swims out, etc (ergo he can't beat any high kage level)

He won't beat SM Jiraiya either, the strongest Mid-kage level due to frogs aiding in his escape of it via similar tactics to Minato, summoning all 3 boss frogs, having Ma/Pa get on the other two and Jiraiya gets on one, if he chases Jiraiya then Ma/Pa get out, which ever one gets out first reverse summons him out first, or he just has Ma fire dust cloud and Gamabunta fire oil into it both succeeding in blocking AOS, then hops into his water toad which is undetectable showcased in Pain-arc when he infiltrated the village and hides until Kisame runs out of chakra sustaining the beastly technique.


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## Jad (Sep 5, 2016)

Probably Killer Bee or even Four Tails Jinchuuriki/Bijuu Son Goku. People say Itachi might have fought from a distance but Kisame's wording seem to imply Itachi wasn't even part of the fight/ witness it.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 5, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> he can't beat any high kage level


He could beat Tobirama, Minato, Tsunade, Ay (in my opinion) most of whom are considered high Kage.

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## DaVizWiz (Sep 5, 2016)

The only two high kage on your list are Tobirama and Minato. Tsunade is weaker than Jiraiya who isn't high kage, and A definitely isn't high kage seeing as he's the least versatile of all the 5 kage and doesn't have a single mid or long range or AoE or support technique. He's irrevocably useless outside of 1 on 1 and will still some of those due to his lack of versatility. 

I explained how Minato escapes Water Dome above, Tobirama is an elite Suiton user and would merely push it away from him creating air bubbles or leading to his escape out of it. If he can't he just summons Edo Tensei, has them swim toward Kisame and if he doesn't continue swimming away from Tobirama leading to his escape of the technique- Kisame is destroyed by GFK which he has neither the absorption feats nor the durability feats to survive- not the the explosion wouldn't blow apart the dome anyway and allow him to go to work on a chakra deprived heavily damaged Kisame.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 5, 2016)

Kisame is not beating anyone fro the sannin, he will lose throught a high diff tought.

He would probably beat Bee w/o BM because he is perfectly sitedd to fight those kind of oppenents, but still he will surely lose to Ei because he decapitates instead of using simple Lariat.

Other than those, it can go eighter way against any mid Akatsuki member, I would favor him against Deidara and Kakuzu more times than not.

He can also beat Kage level openents such as War Gaara or Mei.

The strongest one is probably Bee w/o BM.

In other hand, Minato, Tobirama, MS Obito, Itachi,......stomp him very hard. There no way he can opose such a high calibre fighters.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 5, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> The only two high kage on your list are Tobirama and Minato. Tsunade is weaker than Jiraiya who isn't high kage, and A definitely isn't high kage seeing as he's the least versatile of all the 5 kage.
> 
> I explained how Minato escapes Water Dome above, Tobirama is an elite Suiton user and would merely push it away from him creating air bubbles or leading to his escape out of it. If he can't he just summons Edo Tensei, has them swim toward Kisame and if he doesn't continue swimming away from Tobirama leading to his escape of the technique- Kisame is destroyed by GFK which he has neither the absorption feats nor the durability feats to survive- not the the explosion wouldn't blow apart the dome anyway.


I think Minato/Tobirama can teleport himself and Kisame by making contact with the water dome since its linked to Kisame.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 5, 2016)

I provided better counters than that one hbcaptain, considering you and I both know most would have issues with that tactic being viable.

Read my initial post for Minato's counter, and you have my counter for Tobirama in the quoted post.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 5, 2016)

Well, yeah you were talking about frogs drop which is also a viable option, but I personnaly think teleporting Kisame with this way is simply too much better and also it's an elegant tactic for the win. 

But as you said this argument may lead to a very long and useless disucussion.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 5, 2016)

No doubt teleporting him right into Minato's kunai is an excellent way to finish him, but yeah, having the frogs and a bunshin and himself scatter in five different directions while tagged guarantees he escapes the dome with virtually no counter discussion.


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## Ishmael (Sep 5, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I'd venture as far as Pein/Nagato, Itachi.
> 
> What do you guys think? What's the strongest Kisame could defeat?



Pain.....nagato....  explain please.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 5, 2016)

Samehada GG

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## Lord Aizen (Sep 5, 2016)

I say bijuu mode Killer bee if he's already fused with samehada and waterdome is up. At that point he can simply spike his entire body and stick himself to B. B cant spin him off or rip him off since kisame can stick himself into any part of his body and latch on. It take less than a minute before B loses BM mode and from there it's done.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 6, 2016)

If senjutsu is restricted, I'd go so far as to say KCM/BM Naruto, that's about it though, without restrictions I'd say Killer Bee is probably the toughest.


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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

Itachi?

Maybe KCM




Ryuzaki said:


> If senjutsu is restricted, I'd go so far as to say KCM/BM Naruto, that's about it though, without restrictions I'd say Killer Bee is probably the toughest.


?

What Bees not beating anyone who can turn into a bijuu

He beat Roshi but idk how that played out


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 6, 2016)

NinjaTensa said:


> ?
> 
> What Bees not beating anyone who can turn into a bijuu
> 
> He beat Roshi but idk how that played out


Roshi was said to use multiple elemental fusions too, I don't see how Killer Bee can match his skill, that guy had Lava Chakra Mode, something that would be an instant counter to his waterdome. Kisame's waterdome should be large enough to engulf a bijuu.


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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

Ryuzaki said:


> Roshi was said to use multiple elemental fusions too, I don't see how Killer Bee can match his skill, that guy had Lava Chakra Mode, something that would be an instant counter to his waterdome. Kisame's waterdome should be large enough to engulf a bijuu.




Killer Bee and Roshi fight differently.. so what?

Even if waterdome can fit a bijuu  hiw exactly does that minimize the difference in overall strength?


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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> He could beat Tobirama, Minato, Tsunade, Ay (in my opinion) most of whom are considered high Kage.




No he couldnt, expect maybe for Tsunade


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## Sapherosth (Sep 6, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Extended distance (100m) and full knowledge it's Itachi.
> 
> He has no viable counter to Water Dome and would drown, assuming Kisame could manifest and sustain this without Killer Bee's massive chakras empowering him and assuming he would do so at start battle (with full knowledge I think he would).
> 
> ...




Have you ever heard of amateratsu?


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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Have you ever heard of amateratsu?



Samehada absorbs it

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## Sapherosth (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Samehada absorbs it





Did you know that Samhehada's weakness is fire? 

There's no way Samehada can absorb the strongest fire in existence.

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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Have you ever heard of amateratsu?



Have you ever heard of Daikoudan?

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## Sapherosth (Sep 6, 2016)

NinjaTensa said:


> Have you ever heard of Daikoudan?




And? That technique is only good in a straight line. 

Amateratsu can be dragged and moved around. It's not going absorb all of Amateratsu. It's even debatable if the technique could absorb its strongest counterpart.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 6, 2016)

Kisame beting BM Naruto ? KCM Naruto ? Itachi ? BM Bee with countinious TBB ? what the hell is going on here.

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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> And? That technique is only good in a straight line.
> 
> *Amateratsu can be dragged and moved around*. It's not going absorb all of Amateratsu. It's even debatable if the technique could absorb its strongest counterpart.



Thats enton smart one
It covers a wider Area than Amaterasu an is tailored to absorbing ninjutsu, Itachi has nothing against it


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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Kisame beting BM Naruto ? KCM Naruto ? Itachi ? BM Bee with countinious TBB ? what the hell is going on here.


_One of these thing is not like the other!_


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## Icegaze (Sep 6, 2016)

BM restricted bee as shown in the manga 
Who I would rank as a solid high kage


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## Sapherosth (Sep 6, 2016)

NinjaTensa said:


> Thats enton smart one
> It covers a wider Area than Amaterasu an is tailored to absorbing ninjutsu, Itachi has nothing against it







Yata Mirror reflects it zero diff.

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## UchihaX28 (Sep 6, 2016)

ck

Kisame can't defeat Pain or Nagato and certainly can't defeat Itachi, the man who talks shit to him during the entirety of the manga, even the moment when Itachi met Kisame. Hell, Itachi literally ridiculed him for struggling to capture Roshi despite being the most efficient in capturing enemies alive and Kisame flat-out admitted inferiority to him in Part 1.

Itach would slaughter his ass.

As for Kisame struggling against Roshi, Roshi literally uses Yoton which is far more potent than Katon and considering Samehada's vulnerable towards heat, that could explain why Kisame struggled as much as he did because of Samehada's resistance towards absorbing his chakra.


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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> ck
> 
> Kisame can't defeat Pain or Nagato and certainly can't defeat Itachi, the man who talks shit to him during the entirety of the manga, even the moment when Itachi met Kisame. Hell, Itachi literally ridiculed him for struggling to capture Roshi despite being the most efficient in capturing enemies alive and Kisame flat-out admitted inferiority to him in Part 1.
> 
> ...




Is this a troll

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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I'd venture as far as Pein/Nagato, Itachi.
> 
> What do you guys think? What's the strongest Kisame could defeat?



You venture too far.

Kirabi is probably his limit.

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## DaVizWiz (Sep 6, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Have you ever heard of amateratsu?


Amaterasu only has about a 50m range, it's described as a mid-range technique, and it began falling nearly 50m away from Itachi on the temple roof. 

Kisame can keep away from Itachi while sustaining Water Dome, which is massive, and he'll merely drown as a result unable to close the distance necessary to tag Kisame with Amaterasu or Susano.

Also, he can absorb it with his own physical absorption ability and Samehada's who wound be fused with him should Itachi close the range.

This is all presuming he can cast it on someone with thousands of gallons of water between him and Itachi, people literally suggest Susano prevents an on-target spawning Kamui from getting them and they'd have to warp an opening in it first despite being able to see the opponent within it.

This is exactly why I said 100m start distance and full knowledge.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 6, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> BM restricted bee as shown in the manga
> Who I would rank as a solid high kage


V2 Bee isn't stronger than Ei.


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## Android (Sep 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> the man who talks shit to him during the entirety of the manga


What ? 
Kisame and Itachi always had a mutul respect for each other , where did Itachi ever talked down to Kisame ?


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## Icegaze (Sep 6, 2016)

Cute people suggest Itachi 
Tskuyomi would end kisame with miminimal effort 

Kisame needs to fight more power based fighters to win 

So A and the likes are a better bet


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 6, 2016)

Kisame knew about Tsukuyomi way back in Part 1. No chance he willingly makes eye contact with him at any point.

Amaterasu or Susano have about the same if not more range than Tsukuyomi anyway, you'd of had a better argument suggesting he uses that to destroy him as Kisame looks away from Itachi's head. 

On top of that he survived Afternoon Tiger, the mental fatigue induced by Tsukuyomi wouldn't put down Kisame especially considering Samehada is still there to empower and heal him from said Genjutsu's fatigue and mental damage feats, nor would he be controlling him with it as Samehada would immediately bite his ass the moment it sensed a chakra disturbance in Kisame who is holding it.

Again, I mentioned he'd defeat Itachi with 100m distance start and full knowledge. Tsukuyomi won't be an option if he opens with Water Dome and keeps his distance in the structure as he drowns.


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## Icegaze (Sep 6, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Kisame knew about Tsukuyomi way back in Part 1. No chance he willingly makes eye contact with him at any point.
> 
> Amaterasu or Susano have about the same if not more range than Tsukuyomi anyway, you'd of had a better argument suggesting he uses that to destroy him as Kisame looks away from Itachi's head.
> 
> ...



Tskuyomi can't be countered by Partner  method this was already clearly stated 

You would have an argument if you decided not to forget that


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 6, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> What ?
> , where did Itachi ever talked down to Kisame ?



Kisame called Itachi "Itachi-san."
And Itachi kept ordering him around.
I'm pretty sure there is no mutual respect if you feel obliged refer to your minor(10 years) with the honorific "-san" and he doesn't return the favor.

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## Ayala (Sep 6, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Kisame called Itachi "Itachi-san."
> And Itachi kept ordering him around.
> I'm pretty sure there is no mutual respect if you feel obliged refer to your minor(10 years) with the honorific "-san" and he doesn't return the favor.



I don't believe the fact he calls him "Itachi-san" means anything. If he called him "Itachi-sama", that's another story.

And I remember Kisame disrespected him pretty hard by putting the samehada beside his neck and telling him to be wary.


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## Android (Sep 6, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Kisame called Itachi "Itachi-san."
> And Itachi kept ordering him around.
> I'm pretty sure there is no mutual respect if you feel obliged refer to your minor(10 years) with the honorific "-san" and he doesn't return the favor.


And this proves exactly Kisame being Itachi's side-kick , how ?
Well , actually he is Itachi's side-kick , but not that way .
We even saw Itachi showing some " feelings " when he knew about Kisame's death , not once did we ever saw Itachi talking down to Kisame . They were shown to be the Akatsuki due with the most understanding , they always had their each other's back .
My guess is that when these two met , Kisame tried to bully Itachi to test his real metal , but Itachi put him in his real place , from there , Kisame respected Itachi for his power , henc the " San " thing . After that they grew out to be best buddies

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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 6, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> I don't believe the fact he calls him "Itachi-san" means anything. If he called him "Itachi-sama", that's another story.


I think -san is a honorific you use to call your elders, or peers you respect or feel distant to. But it is a formal way of adressing someone. 
Now when you take into account that Itachi is 10 years Kisame's minor, it pretty much shows who the boss is among the two.



> And I remember Kisame disrespected him pretty hard by putting the samehada beside his neck and telling him to be wary.



Yeah thats how they first met and then a couple of years later Itachi was ordering Kisame around and Kisame was adressing him as "Itachi-san." 
Pretty obvious Itachi put him in his place after that incident, considereing Kisame admitted that Jiraiya was on a higher level than himself but he was confident in Itachi's capability of taking him. Which means he put Itachi at a higher regard than himself as a shinobi.



cctr9 said:


> And this proves exactly Kisame being Itachi's side-kick , how ?
> Well , actually he is Itachi's side-kick , but not that way .
> We even saw Itachi showing some " feelings " when he knew about Kisame's death , not once did we ever saw Itachi talking down to Kisame . They were shown to be the Akatsuki due with the most understanding , they always had their each other's back .



What feelings ?  He was like "that means Kisame is defeated.." I actually expected him to say something other than that but he didn't.
Kisame on the other hand had a flashback of Itachi lecturing him on life and saying "it was just like you said Itachi-san."



> My guess is that when these two met , Kisame tried to bully Itachi to test his real metal , but Itachi put him in his real place , from there , Kisame respected Itachi for his power , henc the " San " thing . After that they grew out to be best buddies



We call that "making someone your bitch" on the streets.
But I admire your gentle way of putting it.

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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Did you know that Samhehada's weakness is fire?
> 
> There's no way Samehada can absorb the strongest fire in existence.



Samehada absorbs Amaterasu, just because Samehada was angry about absorbing Kaiton doesn't mean he can't absorb the highest level of it.

Especially for Kisame, we know that Samehada is essentially a living creature based on the fact that it can refuse to hurt someone if it so chooses.

Samehada also felt a strong emotional connection to Kisame, as shown when it was very upset when Kisame died and openly mourned. Samehada wouldn't complain if Kisame used it to Absorb Amaterasu, it would do more for Kisame than bee.

There's also nothing indicating that Samehada cannot absorb Amaterasu.

Btw. Whoever was saying Itachi shits on Kisame. Samehada has the ability to give and take chakra. It has a conscience, logic dictates it can disrupt chakra and break genjutsu, Itachi is simply outmatched outside of genjutsu Against Kisame


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Samehada absorbs Amaterasu, just because Samehada was angry about absorbing Kaiton doesn't mean he can't absorb the highest level of it.



Samehada complained that it hurt him to absorb a portion of a C rank Fireball.
Claiming that he can absorb Amaterasu is completely baseless.



> Btw. Whoever was saying Itachi shits on Kisame. Samehada has the ability to give and take chakra. It has a conscience, logic dictates it can disrupt chakra and break genjutsu, Itachi is simply outmatched outside of genjutsu Against Kisame



Samehada at the very best case is as smart as a puppy. He is not breaking genjutsu. Especially not Tsukiyomi which bypasses the partner method anyways.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Well , actually he is Itachi's side-kick , but not that way .



Sidekick dictates there's a big difference in power between them, Kisame is stronger in virtually every aspect. Kisame merely bonded with Itachi because, 1. They were on a team and 2. Kisame felt bonded with Itachi over the their mutual betrayal of their respective villages.

Just because Itachi did not (openly) share those feelings, does not mean they weren't there.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Samehada complained that it hurt him to absorb a portion of a C rank Fireball.
> Claiming that he can absorb Amaterasu is completely baseless.
> Samehada at the very best case is as smart as a puppy. He is not breaking genjutsu. Especially not Tsukiyomi which bypasses the partner method anyways.



Like I said, Samehada has proven itself to absorb more Chakra in the hands of Kisame than KB. Samehada also wouldn't disrespect Kisame like that by complaining. It's not baseless to say it can absorb Amaterasu.

Samehada also has a ton of battle experience, saying he's/it's as smart as a puppy is crap and you know it. He'd know to break Genjutsu.

Kisame is also not inexperienced enough to look into Itachi's eyes with MS, Kisame has a ton of knowledge on Itachi, Itachi has limited knowledge on the best of Kisame's abilities. If Kisame was going all out, he'd just spawn water dome and shit on Itachi.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I think -san is a honorific you use to call your elders, or peers you respect or feel distant to. But it is a formal way of adressing someone.
> Now when you take into account that Itachi is 10 years Kisame's minor, it pretty much shows who the boss is among the two.



Age has nothing to do with being a powerful shinobi...Itachi fans say the darndest things.

Kisame showed respect to Itachi for the reasons I mentioned above directed to @cctr9 but they apply here too. Itachi is a cold douche, because plot. It's generally accepted they viewed each other as equals. The only people who dispute that are...wait for it.....Itachi fans.

But, based on Kisame's extensive knowledge on Itachi, Samehada and him outmatching Itachi completely outside of Genjutsu, i'd put Kisame above Itachi in a 1v1.


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## Sapherosth (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> *Sidekick dictates there's a big difference in power between them, Kisame is stronger in virtually every aspect. Kisame merely bonded with Itachi because, 1. They were on a team and 2. Kisame felt bonded with Itachi over the their mutual betrayal of their respective villages.
> 
> Just because Itachi did not (openly) share those feelings, does not mean they weren't there.
> 
> ...






The bolded part is just......

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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> The bolded part is just......



Good argument, well thought out and well presented. 

Go back under your bridge, troll

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## Ishmael (Sep 6, 2016)

It's shown throughout the series that kisame and itachi had probably the most respect and understanding for each other between the akatsuki duos. Kisame remembering what itachi told him before he died and itachi acknowledging the fact that a comrade of his died showed that they at least respected and understood each other. I mean also think about how kisame was when he learned about itachis death. But if were ranking the two in the category of who was the better make her of the akatsuki then it's kisame, he was the best tailed beast catcher and he survived the longest he also knew about the secrets of the akatsuki and he died not telling or giving up anything just finishing his last job as an member.

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## DaVizWiz (Sep 6, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Tskuyomi can't be countered by Partner  method this was already clearly stated
> 
> You would have an argument if you decided not to forget that


Are you implying Part 1 Kakashi has more mental fortitude and stamina than the beast without a tail who broke out of mind rape by bitting his tongue off after tanking Afternoon Tiger?

Are you also implying Itachi's partner for years wouldn't know not to look into his eyes?

Are you also implying he'd be capable of casting Tsukuyomi on Kisame with 100m distance before he manifested water dome?

Are you also implying I ever stated it could be countered with partner method? I said Samehada would bite him if Itachi decided to maintain the Tsukuyomi (assuming it landed) and control Kisame as he suggested he could do to Kabuto early in their battle.

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## Godaime Tsunade (Sep 6, 2016)

The strongest he can defeat is Killer Bee, as shown in the manga. Even then, though, that was based upon very favourable conditions for Kisame - Bee had allies that he was trying to protect, and a a ninjutsu that just so happened to be easy for Kisame to absorb. Had Bee gone full bijuu mode and used a bijuu-dama off the bat, the match would likely have been as good as over.

Under normal circumstances, I think the strongest shinobis that Kisame could defeat are the likes of Deidara, Kakuzu or Mei Terumi.

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## Ishmael (Sep 6, 2016)

Also honestly kisame knows that itachi has a limit to how much of his sharingan techniques he can use.I'm pretty sure he'll know not to look into his eye's also.


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## Icegaze (Sep 6, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Are you implying Part 1 Kakashi has more mental fortitude and stamina than the beast without a tail who broke out of mind rape by bitting his tongue off after tanking Afternoon Tiger?
> 
> Are you also implying Itachi's partner for years wouldn't know not to look into his eyes?
> 
> ...



No am implying having sharingan makes him less vulnerable to it
This was also stated clearly

Try harder

Itachi doesn't need to control Kisame for any duration of time , 
He can simply have kisame release water dome which would happen far quicker than samehada who has no feats of being Able to even notice his sword weilder is in genjutsu can hope to react to it 

So I take it you assume kisame would fight at 100m the entire time 

 when has he done this before . Then again 100m distance seems quite easy to cross seeing how easily killer bee and minato have been able to do such 

Not sure why that distance even allows one to think kisame can barf a lake before Itachi closes that gap and catches him in genjutsu 

Someone whose speed is enough to give killer bee difficulty wouldn't be having trouble closing the gap on kisame who needs his sword to help him block V1 bee attacks


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Sidekick dictates there's a big difference in power between them, Kisame is stronger in virtually every aspect. Kisame merely bonded with Itachi because, 1. They were on a team and 2. Kisame felt bonded with Itachi over the their mutual betrayal of their respective villages.
> 
> Just because Itachi did not (openly) share those feelings, does not mean they weren't there.
> 
> ...



A couple of manga facts :

1 - There is no evidence that Samehada can absorb Amaterasu. Just because it absorbed a katon(albeit with difficulty) doesn't mean it can absorb Amaterasu. Thats what we usually call "no limits fallacy."
2 - Samehada hasn't shown any sign of intelligence, so there is absolutely no evidence that he can break Genjutsu.
3 - Itachi and Kisame never viewed themselves as equals. Kisame even admitted that Itachi could potentially defeat someone Kisame himself had no chance against.

You are reaching, and you know it.
Just stop before its too late.

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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> A couple of manga facts :
> 
> 1 - There is no evidence that Samehada can absorb Amaterasu. Just because it absorbed a katon(albeit with difficulty) doesn't mean it can absorb Amaterasu. Thats what we usually call "no limits fallacy."
> 2 - Samehada hasn't shown any sign of intelligence, so there is absolutely no evidence that he can break Genjutsu.
> ...




Kisame and Itachi were pretty much equals, and Amaterasu is just an advanced Katon Samehada should take it in fie

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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> There is no evidence that Samehada can absorb Amaterasu. Just because it absorbed a katon(albeit with difficulty) doesn't mean it can absorb Amaterasu. Thats what we usually call "no limits fallacy."



It has PROVEN to absorb more in the hands of Kisame. Just because Samehada doesn't LIKE absorbing Katon, does NOT mean it won't. Samehada absorbs Amaterasu, painfully, but it still absorbs it.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> 2 - Samehada hasn't shown any sign of intelligence, so there is absolutely no evidence that he can break Genjutsu.



Samehada has tons of battle experience, do you actually think it has never encountered and broken genjutsu before? Get real 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> 3 - Itachi and Kisame never viewed themselves as equals. Kisame even admitted that Itachi could potentially defeat someone Kisame himself had no chance against.



Retconned. Similar to Hiruzen hype in P1.



NinjaTensa said:


> Kisame and Itachi were pretty much equals, and Amaterasu is just an advanced Katon Samehada should take it in fie



So much this



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Reported for trolling.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> It has PROVEN to absorb more in the hands of Kisame. Just because Samehada doesn't LIKE absorbing Katon, does NOT mean it won't. Samehada absorbs Amaterasu, painfully, but it still absorbs it.


Fanfiction.



> Samehada has tons of battle experience, do you actually think it has never encountered and broken genjutsu before? Get real



Fanfiction.
You should provide evidence or just concede these points my man.
Fyi, your empty words don't count as evidence.



> Retconned. Similar to Hiruzen hype in P1.


Conjecture. But again if you have evidence, please provide it. Otherwise you are wasting both of our times.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Empathy (Sep 6, 2016)

Killer Bee (unrestricted) due to match-up.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Godaime Tsunade (Sep 6, 2016)

Kisame certainly cannot defeat Itachi. Besides the fact that he plainly admitted inferiority to him in Part I, he's shown that he's weak to genjutsu (he shit his pants when Kurenai caught him in an illusion, and he only scores a 2/5 in the genjutsu stat according to the DB). Itachi would do to him what he did to Orochimaru, except he wouldn't know he's even in a genjutsu and thus wouldn't try to break out.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Kisame certainly cannot defeat Itachi. Besides the fact that he plainly admitted inferiority to him in Part I, he's shown that he's weak to genjutsu (he shit his pants when Kurenai caught him in an illusion, and he only scores a 2/5 in the genjutsu stat according to the DB). Itachi would do to him what he did to Orochimaru, except he wouldn't know he's even in a genjutsu and thus wouldn't try to break out.



And we all know how everything in part 1 was permanent and never retconned 

Shit his pants? You mean casually noticed he was in her weak af Genjutsu? 

Kisame knows Itachi's capabilities, Kisame had no knowledge of Kurenai, but he has almost full knowledge of Itachi with the exception of Susano'o (it's possible he knows of it, but it's never stated he does, so i'll say he doesn't) 

Kisame knows what kind of fighter Itachi is, he knows he goes for Genjutsu almost immediately, he'd know, you're talking like Kisame is a fool.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 2


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## Android (Sep 6, 2016)

This thread is funny

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> This thread is funny


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## Godaime Tsunade (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> And we all know how everything in part 1 was permanent and never retconned



Kisame admitting inferiority to Itachi was never retconned.



> Shit his pants? You mean casually noticed he was in her weak af Genjutsu?



No I mean shitting his pants. He looks genuinely confused, until Itachi comes to his rescue with the genjutsu reversal technique. And her genjutsu wasn't weak either.



> Kisame knows Itachi's capabilities, Kisame had no knowledge of Kurenai, but he has almost full knowledge of Itachi with the exception of Susano'o (it's possible he knows of it, but it's never stated he does, so i'll say he doesn't)
> 
> Kisame knows what kind of fighter Itachi is, he knows he goes for Genjutsu almost immediately, he'd know, you're talking like Kisame is a fool.



Itachi has close to full knowledge on Kisame too. And if we're talking about who is more likely than who to capitalise on their knowledge advantage, its going to be Itachi, because he's significantly more tactical and intelligent than his partner.

Reactions: Like 4


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 6, 2016)

NinjaTensa said:


> Is this a troll



 You honestly don't think Itachi was portrayed to be Kisame's superior?

 It's not my fault that Kisame flat out admitted inferiority. You guys keep using your nonsensical arguments and your subjective view of feats while I'll just take what the author said and consider Itachi being Kisame's superior.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> You honestly don't think Itachi was portrayed to be Kisame's superior?
> 
> It's not my fault that Kisame flat out admitted inferiority. You guys keep using your nonsensical arguments and your subjective view of feats while I'll just take what the author said and consider Itachi being Kisame's superior.




Deidara admitted inferiority Sasori his man, But match ups indicate otherwise

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Ashi (Sep 6, 2016)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Kisame admitting inferiority to Itachi was never retconned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Itachi wins cause batman logic

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Mithos (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> He could beat Tobirama, Minato, Tsunade, Ay (in my opinion) most of whom are considered high Kage.



Of those he could maybe beat A - and that's a strong _maybe_. He decisively loses to the rest.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

@NinjaTensa don't bother. People just blindly follow Itachi Hype but ignore Kisames Hype and feats, 

And Kisame has shown impressive feats and his Hype is not low either, being referred to as the tailed beast without a tail/tailess tailed beast.

And since Itachi lovers use only Hype and disregard feats, Kisames hype alone puts him above Itachi, feats do too.

Kisame has power above a perfect Jin, Itachi does not.

/Thread sorry Itachi lovers

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Kisame admitting inferiority to Itachi was never retconned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Itachi can't be that intelligent if he turned his brother into a vengeance obsessed, bloodthirsty, borderline psychotic serial killer.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Jad (Sep 6, 2016)

Isn't their a chance the seals


Mithos said:


> Of those he could maybe beat A - and that's a strong _maybe_. He decisively loses to the rest.


Tsunade does not decisively defeat Kisame. There is enough discussion to be had for that to be the opposite. Especially since Tsunade's use of chakra on her attacks could very well debilitate her.


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## Mithos (Sep 6, 2016)

Jad said:


> Tsunade does not decisively defeat Kisame. There is enough discussion to be had for that to be the opposite. Especially since Tsunade's use of chakra on her attacks could very well debilitate her.



Kisame has already admitted inferiority to the _Legendary_ _Sannin_, of which Tsunade is a member. He didn't even believe he was on their _level. _Nothing in Part II has given me reason to believe that Kisame eclipsed them, or that the statement is no longer true.

Tsunade's CES would be very hard to absorb because it is released _instantly_ _at the point of impact. _In addition, Tsunade doesn't wholly rely on her CES, either; she has plenty of raw strength to out-power Kisame and disarm him of Samehada in a CQC clash. She does not exude chakra like Killer Bee or Naruto, and neither does Katsuyu, who also isn't particularly chakra heavy. I don't see how Kisame debilitates her fighting style, to be perfectly honest.

Reactions: Like 4


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 6, 2016)

Jad said:


> Tsunade does not decisively defeat Kisame. There is enough discussion to be had for that to be the opposite. Especially since Tsunade's use of chakra on her attacks could very well debilitate her.



 A lot of the discussion stems from people's subjective view of feats and bias rather than the author's portrayal of each character. Tsunade can certainly defeat Kisame taking into consideration how Kishimoto writes battles which is the fact that characters don't use their trump cards from the very get-go.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 6, 2016)

Jad said:


> Isn't their a chance the seals
> 
> Tsunade does not decisively defeat Kisame. There is enough discussion to be had for that to be the opposite. Especially since Tsunade's use of chakra on her attacks could very well debilitate her.


Yeah, there's that plus I don't see her surviving waterdome, that shit is a death sentence for most shinobi. That's beyond this discussion though, because Killer Bee, imo, is above all the Gokage, individually. Killer Bee legit survived against MS Sasuke, which is what the Gokage are at on a good day with Oonoki being the only real exception (who I see as being above MS Sasuke).


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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

Mithos said:


> othing in Part II has given me reason to believe that Kisame eclipsed them, or that the statement is no longer true.



Besides taking down a perfect Jin with little difficulty right?



Mithos said:


> Kisame has already admitted inferiority to the _Legendary_ _Sannin_,



He admitted inferiority to Jiraiya, not all of the Sannin, that statement was retconned with Kisame's hype as the Tailed Beast without a tail/tailess tailed beast and taking down Bee ith low diff.



Mithos said:


> Tsunade's CES would be very hard to absorb because it is released _instantly_ _at the point of impact_



What kind of logic.... the chakra hits instantly, so it wouldn't absorb it? So Samehada needs extensive prep time to absorb chakra? Alrighty then.



Mithos said:


> she has plenty of raw strength to out-power Kisame and disarm him of Samehada in a CQC clash



Doubtful, Kisame is physically powerful, he's not just gonna get one shotted by Tsunade if Bee's Lariat didn't even phase him. 



Mithos said:


> Katsuyu, who also isn't particularly chakra heavy





That statement is not even worth addressing.



Mithos said:


> I don't see how Kisame debilitates her fighting style, to be perfectly honest.



He absorbs the chakra from Byakugo no In.

Kisame is just a bad matchup for Tsunade, similar to something like Rock Lee vs Deidara

Kisame shits on Tsunade and proceeds to bury her with his feces.

Reactions: Dislike 4


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## Troyse22 (Sep 6, 2016)

Ryuzaki said:


> Yeah, there's that plus I don't see her surviving waterdome



So much this as well, but Kisame should be able to shit on her even without waterdome.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 6, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> So much this as well, but Kisame should be able to shit on her even without waterdome.


I feel at that point, you'd need something like gates, senjutsu, hiraishin, kamui, susano'o or some broken jutsu to defend yourself from becoming shark food. It's not a knock against Tsunade, I just don't think many shinobi would survive that predicament.


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## Jad (Sep 6, 2016)

Kisame never witnessed or fought a Sannin. He solely based it off their titles. In the end we find out Kisame can handle Bijuu's. I think that leans it heavy credence his more than a match for Sannin. Yes, including Tsunade and the much praised Katsuya.

Also Kisame can absorb through cuts. One cut can absorb a massive portion of Chakra in an instant, considering what it did too Hachibi.


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## Mithos (Sep 7, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Besides taking down a perfect Jin with little difficulty right?



Kisame is better equipped to fight Killer Bee - and Jinchuuriki in general - than the Sannin. Likewise, I believe that Jiraiya did better against Pain than Kisame would have done if he had been in Jiraiya's shoes, and believe Tsunade and Orochimaru would do better than him in such a scenario as well. I also believe Tsunade did better against Madara and the 5 Susano'o clones than Kisame would have done. Match-ups and situations matter.



> He admitted inferiority to Jiraiya, not all of the Sannin, that statement was retconned with Kisame's hype as the Tailed Beast without a tail/tailess tailed beast and taking down Bee ith low diff.



He cited Jiraiya's status as one of the Sannin as the reason why he was outclassed.

Show me where it was retconned - any scan of a character statement or literary portrayal that puts him above the Sannin. Some subjective feats and match-up considerations do not count as retcon.

Jiraiya, Tsunade's peer and _relative equal_, was portrayed as parallel to Itachi. Jiraiya served as Naruto's milestone at the same time that Itachi served as Sasuke's; Itachi and Jiraiya died at the same point in the story, and in the end Sasuke believed that SM Naruto was actually stronger than him. Jiraiya was portrayed as closer to Itachi than to Kisame.

And Jiraiya took on Pain, the leader of Akatsuki and received high praise from Nagato for his performance. The praise was echoed by Kakashi when he confronted Diva, highlighting how well Jiraiya did against such a powerful foe.

Then we can use Suigetsu and Orochimaru to compare their portrayals, too. Suigetsu was wholly willing to take on Kisame, and all Sasuke had to say was that he wouldn't "beat him _yet_." This is the same Suigetsu who was absolutely _terrified_ of Orochimaru when Sasuke spoke of resurrecting him. He literally hid behind Kabuto when Orochimaru emerged from Anko. Suigetsu even went so far as to warn EMS Sasuke that Orochimaru could pose a threat to him and to not underestimate him. Kisame was never portrayed as such a threat to even a weaker version of Sasuke, and while Suigetsu was stated to be able to likely surpass Kisame, that was in no way ever implied about Orochimaru.

Tsunade does not have any direct comparisons, but it's clear that even in Part II Kisame was not considered on the same level as the Sannin based on his portrayal relative to other characters.



> What kind of logic.... the chakra hits instantly, so it wouldn't absorb it? So Samehada needs extensive prep time to absorb chakra? Alrighty then.



I didn't say that. But I believe it would be difficult to _reliably_ and _consistently_ absorb because there is a very small window it would have to absorb the chakra before taking the blow. CES works by concentrating chakra and releasing it at the last moment.





> Doubtful, Kisame is physically powerful, he's not just gonna get one shotted by Tsunade if Bee's Lariat didn't even phase him.



I didn't say he would get one-shotted by her natural strength; I said that she could overpower him even without her CES.



> That statement is not even worth addressing.



I'll consider this a concession on this point.



> He absorbs the chakra from Byakugo no In.



The chakra is stored inside a seal. I don't think he could absorb it unless Tsunade has released the seal and has Byakugou activated. And even then, he's not stealing weeks or months worth of chakra in close range before she can end him. 



> Kisame is just a bad matchup for Tsunade, similar to something like Rock Lee vs Deidara



No, not really. It's nothing like Rock Lee vs Deidara at all.

With Rock Lee and Deidara, Rock Lee has no way of launching any type of offensive if Deidara takes to the air, and he has no defenses against Deidara's bombs because of his lack of ninjutsu.

Tsunade can deal with Kisame's ranged offense, and she can close the gap to engage in CQC, especially considering that Kisame needs to get close to her to do any meaningful damage. She is more skilled in CQC than him, has difficult-to-counter CES, and is physically stronger even without it. Even if one believes that she loses, it's clear that she has the abilities to at least _contend_ with him. She is not completely countered like Rock Lee would be against Deidara.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Jad (Sep 7, 2016)

You just can't take all the accomplishments and compliments and character reactions from other characters because she is their peer/Sannin.

The big difference between Tsunade and her peers was that she quit being a ninja for a massive 20 years. While her peers and supposed equals grew. Tsunade is also the medic support, like Sakura is too Naruto and Sasuke.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 7, 2016)

Mithos said:


> Kisame is better equipped to fight Killer Bee - and Jinchuuriki in general - than the Sannin.



Agreed, but Tsunade is weak to Kisame as well, any opponent that cannot one shot Kisame and relies heavily on Chakra is a bad matchup for Kisame, specifically due to Samehada. Tsunade is going to need to release Byakugo, don't deny that, but as soon as she does, Kisame is literally going to get high af off of all of that chakra.



Mithos said:


> I believe that Jiraiya did better against Pain than Kisame would have done if he had been in Jiraiya's shoes



You're probably right, those conditions would not favor Kisame, as he'd have to find his way out to the Ocean to have a chance, but if he stopped by Pein, he's in trouble, he'd need to absorb as much Chakra as he could before he gets CT'D, if Kisame could absorb a lot of Chakra from the paths, and then fill the entire building where Jiraiya fought the paths via Water Dome, I think Kisame would take it. But all of that is dependent on absorbing enough Chakra in time (or getting out of the ocean)



Mithos said:


> He cited Jiraiya's status as one of the Sannin as the reason why he was outclassed



He only had knowledge of their hype and status. The Sannin were extremely hyped in P1. If Kisame knew of Jiraiya's actual abilities, he wouldn't have been nervous. And for the record, I personally believe Jiraiya would beat Kisame if the conditions favored J-man. 



Mithos said:


> Show me where it was retconned - any scan of a character statement or literary portrayal that puts him above the Sannin. Some subjective feats and match-up considerations do not count as retcon.



Okay, so P1 Hiruzen is still above Prime Hashirama by your logic, cool man.

But, Kisame fighting KB, fighting on par with Itachi (anime) and his overall hype put him above the Sannin, well not Oro, as ET is hax.



Mithos said:


> Suigetsu who was absolutely _terrified_ of Orochimaru



That's because Suigetsu was extensively tortured/experimented on by him. I'd be terrified of someone who did those things to me too. And why are you using Suigetsu as an argument? I think if Suigetsu went all out on Oro, he'd find that without ET, Oro would still win, but suigetsu would surprise himself at how far he went.



Mithos said:


> Tsunade does not have any direct comparisons



Well, all of the Sannin were supposed to be compared to their students and vice versa. So Sakura and Tsunade are comparable, and I think War Arc Sakura is very close to Tsunade's level.



Mithos said:


> I'll consider this a concession on this point.



I'll bite this troll bait. Katsuyu is without a doubt, the most chakra heavy Summon in manga. Everything she does revolves around having a ton of chakra at her disposal, unlike Aoda or Gamakichi, who can fight with little to no chakra. Katsuyu is just a blue and white blob without chakra. And this is from a Katsuyu lover lol.



Mithos said:


> I didn't say he would get one-shotted by her natural strength; I said that she could overpower him even without her CES.



Kisame will never get overpowered by someone who can't one shot him.



Mithos said:


> No, not really. It's nothing like Rock Lee vs Deidara at all.
> 
> With Rock Lee and Deidara, Rock Lee has no way of launching any type of offensive if Deidara takes to the air, and he has no defenses against Deidara's bombs because of his lack of ninjutsu.
> 
> Tsunade can deal with Kisame's ranged offense, and she can close the gap to engage in CQC, especially considering that Kisame needs to get close to her to do any meaningful damage. She is more skilled in CQC than him, has difficult-to-counter CES, and is physically stronger even without it. Even if one believes that she loses, it's clear that she has the abilities to at least _contend_ with him. She is not completely countered like Rock Lee would be against Deidara.



How can she deal with Kisame's long ranged offensive? By burning excessive amounts of chakra? How can she close the gap? And fighting CQC with Kisame is an extremely dangerous dance, he'd be able to handle her in CQC, it's a taijutsu specialist vs a Kenjutsu/Taijutsu specialist.

No, she doesn't have the abilities to contend with him, she just doesn't, she doesn't possess any one shots, Kisame is not going down outside of those, plain and simple.

For the record, this isn't a knock against Tsunade, as even my profile pic is of the Sannin, I think they're all amazing shinobi, but Kisame is merely a tier above them all.

Your main arguments are "BECAUSE THE TITLE "SANNIN" WINS THEM THE MATCH" it's getting annoying.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Godaime Tsunade (Sep 7, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Itachi can't be that intelligent if he turned his brother into a vengeance obsessed, bloodthirsty, borderline psychotic serial killer.



You're really grasping at straws here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

Probably Killer B as others have said, when Waterdome comes up he's screwed.


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## Ayala (Nov 24, 2016)

"Kisame shits on Tsunade and proceeds to bury her with his feces." 

 

Man i hate this type of trash

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> "Kisame shits on Tsunade and proceeds to bury her with his feces."
> 
> 
> 
> Man i hate this type of trash


Not to mention 
"Kisame>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kakashit"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ayala (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> Not to mention
> "Kisame>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kakashit"



And i heard he wants to be a member of the month...

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> Kisame>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kakashit



Couldn't agree more, well, up until DMS Rikudo buff that is.




oetsuthebest said:


> And i heard he wants to be a member of the month...





Actually by own admission, I didn't think i'd win, but based on the number of nominations I received, I should've made the droplist, as there was 2 people up there with only 1 nomination.

But one of the mods is out to get to me (no not DS, i'll let you put that together for yourselves)

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Couldn't agree more, well, up until DMS Rikudo buff that is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kakashi is a fanfavorite, I don't think it would help you make friends if you throw around "Kakashit" like that.

Let me guess, Saru?


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## Ishmael (Nov 24, 2016)

Honestly I agree with @Troyse22  if all characters receive those cheap bull shit ass power ups ranking would be different. It's why I ignore characters that got power ups such as naruto with his, and Saskue with his. It's nothing impressive about a shinobi that was just given something.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> Kakashi is a fanfavorite, I don't think it would help you make friends if you throw around "Kakashit" like that.



I'd hardly call him a fan favorite.

He's not liked (by the fanbase) on the level of Naruto/Sasuke/Itachi/Minato/Madara/Hashi etc. 



PhantomSage said:


> Let me guess, Saru?



Wish I could say  i'll leave it to your judgment to figure out


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> Honestly I agree with @Troyse22  if all characters receive those cheap bull shit ass power ups ranking would be different. It's why I ignore characters that got power ups such as naruto with his, and Saskue with his. It's nothing impressive about a shinobi that was just given something.



I think Naruto earned his, Sasuke was given his to advance plot though imo.


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## Ishmael (Nov 24, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I think Naruto earned his, Sasuke was given his to advance plot though imo.



Same I feel the same way when it comes down to Saskue.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> Trump became president son, you got a chance too.



Anything's possible I suppose, but people would have to overlook their difference of opinion with me when it comes to Kisame, and based on recent happenings in the BD, that won't be happening anytime soon.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I'd hardly call him a fan favorite.
> 
> He's not liked (by the fanbase) on the level of Naruto/Sasuke/Itachi/Minato/Madara/Hashi etc.


That's just on this forum. I know lots of people who are Kakashi fans.


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## Icegaze (Nov 24, 2016)

How many people here think kisame beats minato
Please do say
Am really wondering how
Entertain me


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> How many people here think kisame beats naruto
> Please do say
> Am really wondering how
> Entertain me



Which version of Naruto...?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 24, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Which version of Naruto...?



I meant Minato 
My bad 
Not naruto


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

Pain Arc SM should take down Kisame, although it could go either way. 
I'd say KCM and up should suffice.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

Oh, Minato.
Well, seeing as how Kisame got blitzed by a KCM Naruto, and how Minato is comparable to Naruto in speed per their own words, Minato should bamflash Kisame immediately, and end it quickly.

Oodama sized Rasengans will be enough, he cut through Hachibi's tentacle, so he should be able to slice Kisame's head off.


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## Icegaze (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> Oh, Minato.
> Well, seeing as how Kisame got blitzed by a KCM Naruto, and how Minato is comparable to Naruto in speed per their own words, Minato should bamflash Kisame immediately, and end it quickly.
> 
> Oodama sized Rasengans will be enough, he cut through Hachibi's tentacle, so he should be able to slice Kisame's head off.



Actually it's the other way around naruto was compared to Minato and Yamato corrected that assessment and said naruto was on that level just yet 

Kisame gets blitz long before barfing a lake


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

If Waterdome comes up. Minato has a viable option, Yatai Kuzushi. I've shown scans for Troyse22 that prove Bunta and Domr are more or less the same size.

If that doesn't work, then Kisame wins, but its unlikely imo.


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## Icegaze (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> If Waterdome comes up. Minato has a viable option, Yatai Kuzushi. I've shown scans for Troyse22 that prove Bunta and Domr are more or less the same size.
> 
> If that doesn't work, then Kisame wins, but its unlikely imo.



That if is comically unlikely though

Then again wouldn't clone spam work ?
I mean each clone swims in a direction which ever clone or gets the furthest way minato just hirashin to the clone 

Kisame can't chase all of them


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## Suoh (Nov 24, 2016)

I could reasonably see him beating AAA.
As for Kisame vs Minato. Kisame gets tagged during the first cqc exchange and Minato proceeds to flatten Kisame all fight long.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> I meant Minato
> My bad
> Not naruto



Kisame was able to school Killer Bee in CQC, easily countering a V1 blitz.

Minato also needs to throw a Kunai, which Kisame would casually deflect in another direction.

Can't see a master swordsman of Kisame's caliber losing to Minato.

A rasengan is not putting Kisame down, the guy TANKED Hirudora, Gais strongest tech outside of the 8th gate. 

So long as Kisame has manga knowledge, he'd win. He'll be on guard for his speed due to the name "Yellow flash" he won't be punked by some Hiraishin rasengan gimmick nonsense. 

It's also likely that with manga knowledge, Kisame either brings up a lake or waterdome, in that situation, Minato is absolutely done for. 



PhantomSage said:


> Well, seeing as how Kisame got blitzed by a KCM Naruto,



His low mobility transformation form yes.

I'd hardly call that a feat.



PhantomSage said:


> Oodama sized Rasengans will be enough, he cut through Hachibi's tentacle, so he should be able to slice Kisame's head off.


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## wooly Eullerex (Nov 24, 2016)

tobirama


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


>



Great argument, very compelling and clearly explains why you disagree, well done.


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## The_Conqueror (Nov 24, 2016)

The strongest kisame defeats is restricted bee per canon.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> *Great argument*, very compelling and clearly explains why you disagree, well done.


You cant possibly be talking.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

> Minato also needs to throw a Kunai, which Kisame would casually deflect in another direction.


@cctr9 Please be as kind to post the scan of Minato throwing kunai around the Juubi before anyone on the battlefield could react.


> Can't see a master swordsman of Kisame's caliber losing to Minato.


I can tho 


> A rasengan is not putting Kisame down, the guy TANKED Hirudora, Gais strongest tech outside of the 8th gate.


Kisame didn't tank Hirudora, but there's a huge debate going on about that in another thread. Even if one didn't Minato has the speed to dance around Kisame and hit him with multiple ones.
He can also decapitate him with the kunai.


> So long as Kisame has manga knowledge, he'd win. He'll be on guard for his speed due to the name "Yellow flash" he won't be punked by some Hiraishin rasengan gimmick nonsense.


Doesn't change a thing tho, if Minato appears behind him suddenly, he can't react.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> You cant possibly be talking.





explained it earlier in that post, I didn't feel the need to repeat the same thing twice in the same post.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> @cctr9 Please be as kind to post the scan of Minato throwing kunai around the Juubi before anyone on the battlefield could react



Get it yourself 



PhantomSage said:


> Kisame didn't tank Hirudora, but there's a huge debate going on about that in another thread. Even if one didn't Minato has the speed to dance around Kisame and hit him with multiple ones.
> He can also decapitate him with the kunai.



A thread that i'm actively participating in, although I will admit, some very great arguments are being made 

So Minato is going to Hiraishin, hit Kisame with a rasengan, generate another one, hiraishin again, hit Kisame with Rasengan again and keep repeating...despite never showing the ability to do that?

Cool fanfic

Kisame is not getting decapitated with a 3 pronged Kunai, a Kunai meant for stabbing will not cut a durability monsters head off, it took V1 AAAA and V1 Bee just to do that (although that was zetsu, so I suppose it doesn't really count)


If Kisame can react to a 3 way blitz and counter attack, I don't have a single doubt in my mind that he could react to Minato.



I don't see Minato winning outside of giving him full knowledge, Kisame none and giving Minato 30+ secs of prep. Oh and Kisame is already marked too


The stipulations would have to be heavily, HEAVILY in Minato's favor for Minato to pull off a win.

Whereas both with Manga knowledge and neutral stipulations, Kisame would pull out a mid diff win.


Samehada would also casually absorb any rasengan variant (that Minato can produce)


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Get it yourself


1. Don't feel like it 
2. @cctr9 has notes on it that he wrote that emphasize his speed


> A thread that i'm actively participating in, although I will admit, some very great arguments are being made


Yeah.


> So Minato is going to Hiraishin, hit Kisame with a rasengan, generate another one, hiraishin again, hit Kisame with Rasengan again and keep repeating...despite never showing the ability to do that?
> 
> Cool fanfic


No, he can dance around Kisame with his Shunshin that enacted before Kyuubi could finish a TBB, he can avoid Kisame's attacks, and blindside with attacks.



> Kisame is not getting decapitated with a 3 pronged Kunai, a Kunai meant for stabbing will not cut a durability monsters head off, it took V1 AAAA and V1 Bee just to do that (although that was zetsu, so I suppose it doesn't really count)


It cut off Hachibi's tentacle, so yes, it will.
Saying it took Bee and Ay to do it doesn't count. That's like saying 10 punches (Bee and Ay) will be enough to knock out someone (Kisame). Just because 10 punches worked, doesn't mean that 8, or 9, won't.


> If Kisame can react to a 3 way blitz and counter attack, I don't have a single doubt in my mind that he could react to Minato.


Even if Minato blindsides him?


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## Ishmael (Nov 24, 2016)

Holy fuck kisame is God tier now

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ishmael (Nov 24, 2016)

Anyways strongest this guy beats depends on restrictions and the stipulations. 


professor83 said:


> The strongest kisame defeats is restricted bee per canon.



I'd agree with this but I mean who else does he beat past bee? Or does it just stop at bee?


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## The_Conqueror (Nov 24, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> Holy fuck kisame is God tier now


 
Stronger the opponent stronger kisame becomes


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> No, he can dance around Kisame with his Shunshin that enacted before Kyuubi could finish a TBB, he can avoid Kisame's attacks, and blindside with attacks.




Doesn't matter how much Minato can dance around Kisame, that's not defeating him.

Minato will eventually run out chakra, before he can ever dream of putting Kisame down.



PhantomSage said:


> It cut off Hachibi's tentacle, so yes, it will.



You mean that little ass partial transformation 20 years ago?

Kisame>partial transformation tentacle in durability.



PhantomSage said:


> Even if Minato blindsides him?



What's Minato going to do with that chance? He has 1 chance to kill Kisame with a surprise attack and he possesses nothing in his arsenal to put the dude down, once Minato uses Hiraishin once, Kisame is going to be ready every single time.

A Choodama Rasengan that couldn't kill 14 yo Obito is not going to kill Kisame, an insanely durable and regen heavy shinobi.



LAZLOLAZZING said:


> Holy fuck kisame is God tier now



Are you suggesting Minato is god tier, despite almost getting his head crushed in by a head sized fist?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Ishmael (Nov 24, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Doesn't matter how much Minato can dance around Kisame, that's not defeating him.
> 
> Minato will eventually run out chakra, before he can ever dream of putting Kisame down.
> 
> ...



I said Kisame. Where the fuck did minato come from? As far as you and phantomsage debate goes that's for you guys. Also it was a joke no way in hell Kisame would be God tier. He's a mid to high kage at most.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> I said Kisame. Where the fuck did minato come from? As far as you and phantomsage debate goes that's for you guys. Also it was a joke no way in hell Kisame would be God tier. He's a mid to high kage at most.



Never once said Kisame was god tier.

He's just under the likes of VOTE Madara/Hashirama, War Arc Kabuto with unrestricted ET etc.

Although if Kisame's statement is anything to go by (see my gif) then Kisame is above god tier, he reaches even beyond Kaguya 

(have to include i'm joking, some people might think i'm serious)


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## Ishmael (Nov 24, 2016)

I've just been awarded the addicted trophy with that post how wonderful... anyways never said you did I just ended up stating my opinion in that reply to what you said.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 24, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Doesn't matter how much Minato can dance around Kisame, that's not defeating him.


Taking him out via decapitation afterwards is.


> Minato will eventually run out chakra, before he can ever dream of putting Kisame down.


Are you suggeting FTG uses lots of chakra?


> You mean that little ass partial transformation 20 years ago?
> 
> Kisame>partial transfor


I don't give a rats ass if it was partial, it's like 5x thicker than his neck.


> What's Minato going to do with that chance? He has 1 chance to kill Kisame with a surprise attack and he possesses nothing in his arsenal to put the dude down, once Minato uses Hiraishin once, Kisame is going to be ready every single time.
> 
> A Choodama Rasengan that couldn't kill 14 yo Obito is not going to kill Kisame, an insanely dura



It's going to put Kisame the fuck down, might not kill him tho. decapitation works too. 

A professional boxer is durable,he can probably take multiple KO hits, however he wont be able to be stabbed and fight.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 24, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> Taking him out via decapitation afterwards is.



Won't cut his head off.



PhantomSage said:


> Are you suggeting FTG uses lots of chakra?



All I see are straws.

FTG doesn't use a lot of chakra, but he'd have to use is constantly just to avoid Kisame's assault, on top of trying to get an opening for a hit.



PhantomSage said:


> I don't give a rats ass if it was partial, it's like 5x thicker than his neck.



Lol, and tentacles are squishy as hell.



PhantomSage said:


> It's going to put Kisame the fuck down



All Kisame needs to do is survive the first attempt at Hiraishin blitz, from that moment on, he's in total control of the battle. 

Not exactly difficult for him to survive either, Samehada casually absorbs any variant of Rasengan minato can create.



PhantomSage said:


> A professional boxer is durable,he can probably take multiple KO hits, however he wont be able to be stabbed and fight.



I've been stabbed in the arm before (fight that got out of control) and was able to still fight afterwards, i'd assume a professional boxer could easily do it too.

Kisame has also shown walking around with a damn sword stuck in his arm/shoulder, barely even noticing it, almost as if he didn't even feel it.

To say Kisame is going to go down from being stabbed by Minato is bullshit.


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## Android (Nov 25, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> @cctr9 Please be as kind to post the scan of Minato throwing kunai around the Juubi before anyone on the battlefield could react.





PhantomSage said:


> 1. Don't feel like it
> 2. @cctr9 has notes on it that he wrote that emphasize his speed

Reactions: Like 1


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## The All Unknowing (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Never once said Kisame was god tier.
> 
> *He's just under the likes of VOTE Madara/Hashirama*, War Arc Kabuto with unrestricted ET etc.
> 
> ...



bahahahaha... No. Fucking. Way

Reactions: Like 1


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## The All Unknowing (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Won't cut his head off.


prove his skin is blade-proof


> All I see are straws.


lol, yup


> FTG doesn't use a lot of chakra, but he'd have to use is constantly just to avoid Kisame's assault, on top of trying to get an opening for a hit.


not really. Hiraishin is so much faster than Kisame, that he'd lose track of him quite quickly


> Lol, and tentacles are squishy as hell.


but a throat is rock hard?


> All Kisame needs to do is survive the first attempt at Hiraishin blitz, from that moment on, he's in total control of the battle.


how would him getting marked put him in control? Seems like it would be the opposite


> Not exactly difficult for him to survive either, Samehada casually absorbs any variant of Rasengan minato can create.


so Obito wasn't quick enough to simply activate his intangibility, but Kisame is fast enough to position himself and swing his sword into the path of attack? No


> I've been stabbed in the arm before (fight that got out of control) and was able to still fight afterwards, i'd assume a professional boxer could easily do it too.


Not all knives, opponents, and body parts are equal. I've also been stabbed a few times. And seen people stabbed. While, luckily, I'm still here. One of  the ones I've seen stabbed isn't. From being stabbed only once too. And really, most pro boxers would freak the hell out from being stabbed. A brawler would take it far better


> Kisame has also shown walking around with a damn sword stuck in his arm/shoulder, barely even noticing it, almost as if he didn't even feel it.


as I said before, body parts aren't equal. Even inches difference. If someone was slashed on the inside of his arm, he'd bleed out in minutes, but the outside and you'd probably be able to avoid even going to the hospital (as long as you don't mind a more visible scar)


> To say Kisame is going to go down from being stabbed by Minato is bullshit.


it's all about location. Surely he COULD take being stabbed with minimal damage. He also COULD die instantly from it


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## Ayala (Nov 25, 2016)

Lol The NBD seems to be full of thugs who've been stabbed and still fought. And they're not even 20 yo  Where you from people, favelas of Brasil? 

And who gets stabbed in the arm in a fight that gets out of control  And continues to fight  all people i heard from get stabbed in abdomen/body


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## Troyse22 (Nov 25, 2016)

oetsuthebest said:


> Lol The NBD seems to be full of thugs who've been stabbed and still fought. And they're not even 20 yo  Where you from people, favelas of Brasil?
> 
> And who gets stabbed in the arm in a fight that gets out of control  And continues to fight  all people i heard from get stabbed in abdomen/body



Nah, I live in southeast Canada, quiet town, my buddy was a short guy and he got picked on for weeks (I think i was 15 at the time) and I was still 6'5 at the time, he was 5'2.

Long story short I confronted the guy and told him to cut the shit and he took a swing, and after about 2 minutes of fighting he stabbed me.

Dont gotta be a thug or lowlife to get stabbed, sometimes shit happens.



The All Unknowing said:


> prove his skin is blade-proof
> 
> lol, yup
> 
> ...



I said Kisame wasnt blade proof by me saying he had a sword stuck in him.

What I'm saying is after the first kill attempt by Minato, Kisame will know what's going on and prepare for the next time he tried that shit.

Tentacles only contain muscles, skin etc.

Kisames neck and skill have bones, a three pronged kunai isn't just cutting though them, Minato doesn't have the strength feats nor can he stream his chakra.

14 yo obito is trash compared to high rank Shinobi.

The rest is just you ranting on.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Parallaxis (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Nah, I live in southeast Canada, quiet town, my buddy was a short guy and he got picked on for weeks (I think i was 15 at the time) and I was still 6'5 at the time, he was 5'2.
> 
> Long story short I confronted the guy and told him to cut the shit and he took a swing, and after about 2 minutes of fighting he stabbed me.
> 
> Dont gotta be a thug or lowlife to get stabbed, sometimes shit happens.



Holy shit, i gotta commend you for that.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Nov 25, 2016)

I would say Kakuzu or Mei Terumi.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## Parallaxis (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Kisames neck and skill have bones, a three pronged kunai isn't just cutting though them, Minato doesn't have the strength feats nor can he stream his chakra.


You dont need to cut off his head completely to kill him.


Troyse22 said:


> 14 yo obito is trash compared to high rank Shinobi.


Are you serious?
How is Obito, who was so strong that Minato believed him to be Madara uchiha, trash?

He is > Kisame. 
Also, being trash doesn't change the fact that Obito couldnt turn phasing on, will Kisame really turn and rewct accordingly?


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## Ishmael (Nov 25, 2016)

The fuck??14 year old obito was nothing close to trash. Obito is the true definition of a late bloomer, minato believed him to be Madara and 14 year old obito even gave minato a run for his money.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 25, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> You dont need to cut off his head completely to kill him.



Yeah, you actually do, because he'd just regen whatever else.



PhantomSage said:


> re you serious?
> How is Obito, who was so strong that Minato believed him to be Madara uchiha, trash?



Minato didn't know who Madara even was. He only knew of his hype.



PhantomSage said:


> He is > Kisame.



Kisame would low-mid diff 14 yo Obito, that's not even up for debate.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Ishmael (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Yeah, you actually do, because he'd just regen whatever else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



???didnt  know Madara...dude only reason obito was alive after his near death experience was because of Madara and zetsu.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 25, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> ???didnt  know Madara...dude only reason obito was alive after his near death experience was because of Madara and zetsu.



My bad that was supposed to be minato

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ishmael (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> My bad that was supposed to be minato



Oh my bad that was on me also I should have known it was minato.


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## Icegaze (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Kisame was able to school Killer Bee in CQC, easily countering a V1 blitz.
> 
> Minato also needs to throw a Kunai, which Kisame would casually deflect in another direction.
> 
> ...



Ps: by the time the Kunai touches samehada and kisame attempts swinging to deflect he would already be blitz by Minato 

Any Kunai at proximity means Minato blitzes 

 I certainly can considering Minato is a hole lot faster and getting around kisame in cqc is as easy as letting go of a Kunai and appearing behind kisame 

Kisame bled when aoba threw Kunai at him
Kisame looses his neck in a Kunai slash 

Kisame can't form jutsu before Minato get a Kunai at proximity 

Itachi couldn't even form seals against a slower sasuke before sasuke could throw a fuma Shiruken 

Kisame gets blitz quickly

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 25, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Ps: by the time the Kunai touches samehada and kisame attempts swinging to deflect he would already be blitz by Minato
> 
> Any Kunai at proximity means Minato blitzes
> 
> ...



Already addressed most of this earlier, go back and read it.

Any Kunai in proximity kills Minato, not sure what you mean by that, it's nonsensical.

Kisame bled when Aoba threw a sword at him, but he also showed no signs of pain, as he simply just left it there until it presumably got knocked out of him when Bee hit with V2 Lariat. If it was even remotely bugging him, he'd have simply pulled it out lol.

Kisame doesn't lose his neck even by Phantomsage's own concession, (saying that Minato doesn't need to cut his completely off)

Kisame then gets hit with some failed Kunai slash and takes total control of the battle via waterdome and low diffs Shitnato.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 25, 2016)

Comical you are. How is Kisame regenning without bijuu chakra? Aobo didnt throw a sword, he threw two needles.


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## Troyse22 (Nov 25, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> Comical you are. How is Kisame regenning without bijuu chakra? Aobo didnt throw a sword, he threw two needles.



The dude just fkn chills with a sword in his arm dude.









No indications of pain at all. Those aren't needles, that's a goddamn sword in his arm man.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> The dude just fkn chills with a sword in his arm dude.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And you realize getting stabbed in the neck =/= the arm.

Right?

Minato shunshinned round the Juubi and planted FTG marks before edo hokages could react, I think it is safe to he murks Kisame in one or two goes.

Kisame wont react to a blindside. Or are you gonna say he's a swordman so his reflexes are greater than MS Obit?


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## Icegaze (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Already addressed most of this earlier, go back and read it.
> 
> Any Kunai in proximity kills Minato, not sure what you mean by that, it's nonsensical.
> 
> ...



*-snip-*

read properly
I said any Kunai st proximity kills kisame as that means Minato instantly appears there .
obito with hashirama cells and kamui couldn't react to him


Scan of this sword please

Honestly mate *-snip-*

Sword !!! A sword!!! *-snip-* What sort of trolling is this you blatantly make shit up

Anywayz

*-snip-*

I'll leave you to it

If you gonna invent stuff and say aoba threw a sword


simply the worst kinda person

AOBA IS THE GUY WITH SUN GLASSES FROM KONOHA

a Kunai is enough to make kisame bleed

Kisame struggled to avoid base bee 2 prung assault where bee sword stabbed kisame

Minato in that case would have already won the fight

Kisame would be marked and forever blitz from that point on


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## Troyse22 (Nov 25, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Honestly mate you must be the worst troll
> 
> Sword !!! A sword!!! Scans or shut the hell up . What sort of trolling is this you blatantly make shit up



amusing how I provided scans like 5 mins before you typed this.


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## Parallaxis (Nov 25, 2016)

Plus, the scan you ppsted shows B or whoever saying that the sword grazed Kisame only.


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## Icegaze (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> amusing how I provided scans like 5 mins before you typed this.


Pure troll
AOBA !!! He threw a Kunai and kisame bled !!!
In turtle island 

Go check 

This was before gated gai trolled kisame


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## Troyse22 (Nov 25, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Pure troll
> AOBA !!! He threw a Kunai and kisame bled !!!
> In turtle island
> 
> ...



"He provided scans!!, TROLL!!|

"He didn't provide them, TROLL!!"

Where did I say Kisame didn't bleed, I said Kisame showed no absolutely no signs of pain or that the sword even bothered him.



Icegaze said:


> says the only human who tbinks kisame beats nagato
> 
> That's hilarious
> 
> As if anyone takes you seriously



Doesn't matter, it's my opinion, I can back it up and I won't move from it until i'm provided with a reason not to believe it. 

But, nobody has given me sufficient reason not to believe it.

The only debaters who don't take me seriously, are honestly the trash. I take most debaters seriously, bar maybe Raikiri. It's a matter of respect. Something you clearly weren't brought up to show.

No matter how outside the general opinion someones opinion is, I read it...why? Because they could probably provide very compelling arguments, no matter how much I might disagree with them initially.

Maybe if the BD opened their mind to Kisame, rather than their only argument being "NOPE, BECAUSE I SAID SO" they might become better debaters.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Icegaze (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> "He provided scans!!, TROLL!!|
> 
> "He didn't provide them, TROLL!!"
> 
> Where did I say Kisame didn't bleed, I said Kisame showed no absolutely no signs of pain or that the sword even bothered him.



You said aoba threw swords 
They were Kunai 
Kunai made kisame bleed
Ergo Minato should quite easily be able to remove his neck 

He obviously isn't cut proof



Troyse22 said:


> Doesn't matter, it's my opinion, I can back it up and I won't move from it until i'm provided with a reason not to believe it.
> 
> But, nobody has given me sufficient reason not to believe it.
> 
> ...



Fair enough then 100% of the forum is trash cuz I have yet to see someone not chastise your hilarious post 

Ok I am fine being trash tbh

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ayala (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Nah, I live in southeast Canada, quiet town, my buddy was a short guy and he got picked on for weeks (I think i was 15 at the time) and I was still 6'5 at the time, he was 5'2.
> 
> Long story short I confronted the guy and told him to cut the shit and he took a swing, and after about 2 minutes of fighting he stabbed me.
> 
> ...



Good guy Troyse, taking a beating for his friend 

But seriously man, if you really did that, you have my respect, that's pretty cool. Nowadays people are pretty cold, no one risks for no one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Nov 25, 2016)

Strongest he defeats is Third Raikage.


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## The All Unknowing (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I said Kisame wasnt blade proof by me saying he had a sword stuck in him.


OK


> What I'm saying is after the first kill attempt by Minato, Kisame will know what's going on and prepare for the next time he tried that shit.


there's not much you can prepare for when the opponent can instantly teleport dirsctly to you


> Tentacles only contain muscles, skin etc.
> 
> Kisames neck and skill have bones, a three pronged kunai isn't just cutting though them, Minato doesn't have the strength feats nor can he stream his chakra.


even muscle is more dense than the throat. There's little muscle, the windpipe, huge arteries/veins and the spine. And the spine is not difficult to sever. Even in the off-chance that he (a shinobi that has killed hundreds, maybe thousands) can't sever that tiny connection, cutting to there would absolutely kill Kisame. Whether from not being able to breathe, bleeding out, or asphyxiation from the blood filling his lungs. He'd die in under a minute and wouldn't be able to do anything in that time. And that's assuming the spinal cord isn't severed even if somehow the spine itself isn't


> 14 yo obito is trash compared to high rank Shinobi.
> 
> The rest is just you ranting on.


even at 14, Kamui intangibility makes him a high rank shinobi. If it wasn't for Minato's quick thinking, he would have killed him fairly easily


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## The All Unknowing (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Doesn't matter, it's my opinion, I can back it up and I won't move from it until i'm provided with a reason not to believe it.
> 
> But, nobody has given me sufficient reason not to believe it.
> 
> ...


lmao @ Kisametology recruiting. Everybody has provided facts to backup their views

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Nov 25, 2016)

The All Unknowing said:


> @ Kisametology recruiting



that actually made me lol

"For we are all one under Lord Kisame"



Icegaze said:


> He obviously isn't cut proof



See, you're grasping at straws, your arguments are weakening and you are on the brink of a concession.

I never said Kisame was cut proof, hell I even said the guy had a sword stuck in him.



Icegaze said:


> Ergo Minato should quite easily be able to remove his neck



That's a huge leap, pal. Receiving a cut from a sword and getting decapitated are two entirely different things.




The All Unknowing said:


> there's not much you can prepare for when the opponent can instantly teleport dirsctly to you



Kisame has decades of battle experience over 14 yo Obito, he'll be ready for that Hiraishin and either 1. strike the Kunai and send it flying away or 2. avoid it all together.

Kisame has great reaction speeds, Minato cannot throw a kunai at him before he can hit it or dodge it.



The All Unknowing said:


> even muscle is more dense than the throat. There's little muscle, the windpipe, huge arteries/veins and the spine. And the spine is not difficult to sever. Even in the off-chance that he (a shinobi that has killed hundreds, maybe thousands) can't sever that tiny connection, cutting to there would absolutely kill Kisame. Whether from not being able to breathe, bleeding out, or asphyxiation from the blood filling his lungs. He'd die in under a minute and wouldn't be able to do anything in that time. And that's assuming the spinal cord isn't severed even if somehow the spine itself isn't



muscles are not more dense than bone.

Cut open your arm until you reach the bone, then try cutting through the bone. Much MUCH more difficult right?

Don't forget, Minato can't sit there and saw at Kisame's head, he has to pierce muscle, and multiple bones to decapitate Kisame.

He doesn't have the strength feats to do it, or the ability to stream chakra.

In short. Minato cannot decapitate Kisame, not even close.


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## Ishmael (Nov 25, 2016)

t0xeus said:


> Strongest he defeats is Third Raikage.



I can agree with this but how does he do it? I'm interested to know


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## Icegaze (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> that actually made me lol
> 
> "For we are all one under Lord Kisame"
> 
> ...



 a sword tossed with basically no extra force behind it punctured his shoulder deep enough to get stuck

Minato swinging a Kunai at his neck which has less dense bones and less muscle should easily be able to remove kisame head off

Samehada isn't healing Him from any sort of damage without first stealing chakra

Wonder what chakra he is going to be stealing from Minato

Anything but saying kisame wins to you is rubbish

When you the only poster who assumes everyone else Is rubbish the real problem is easy to identify

Love how Minato doesn't have the ability to stream chakra something basic that Omoi can do yet samehada can absorb all things 

Most of which he has shown no ability to do


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## The All Unknowing (Nov 25, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> that actually made me lol
> 
> "For we are all one under Lord Kisame"
> 
> ...


the spine isn't connected via bone. We'd be quite inflexible if that were the case. It's not "multiple bones" at all. And as I said, even in the slim chance that a kunai can't take his head completely off, what about bleeding out or asphyxiation? Since it's not as if the neck has a ribcage to protect those spots

And in Kisame's decades of experience, what hiraishin users has he fought? Izuna dodged Tobirama's kunai, and was killed. Obito dodged Minato's kunai w/ intangibility, and got flattened. And if Minato was to throw like 6 at him at once, Kisame isn't blocking all of them


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## Parallaxis (Nov 25, 2016)

The All Unknowing said:


> the spine isn't connected via bone. We'd be quite inflexible if that were the case. It's not "multiple bones" at all. And as I said, even in the slim chance that a kunai can't take his head completely off, what about bleeding out or asphyxiation? Since it's not as if the neck has a ribcage to protect those spots
> 
> And in Kisame's decades of experience, what hiraishin users has he fought? Izuna dodged Tobirama's kunai, and was killed. Obito dodged Minato's kunai w/ intangibility, and got flattened. And if Minato was to throw like 6 at him at once, Kisame isn't blocking all of them


Not to mention both of them had Sharing an so their reflexes>>>>Kisame.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Nov 25, 2016)

my world is just shattering. I honestly can't believe that you all are trying to prove that Minato can cut Kisames head off. I'm not surprised that it's being denied but the fact any of you even entertain such an argument just shows how dedicated you are to the battledome you all have my respect.

The strongest I can see Kisame defeating would be restricted Tsunade (war arc byakugo & no katsuyu)

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Parallaxis (Nov 25, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> my world is just shattering. I honestly can't believe that you all are trying to prove that Minato can cut Kisames head off. I'm not surprised that it's being denied but the fact any of you even entertain such an argument just shows how dedicated you are to the battledome you all have my respect.
> 
> The strongest I can see Kisame defeating would be restricted Tsunade (war arc byakugo & no katsuyu)


Not like he can survive getting stabbed in the neck anyways. Or an Oodama level Rasengan.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Nov 25, 2016)

PhantomSage said:


> Not like he can survive getting stabbed in the neck anyways. Or an Oodama level Rasengan.


Agreed. Kisame isn't a durability monster.. he definitely has durability that is above average but he capitalizes on Regeneration + Chakra Absorption.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 25, 2016)

>Minato can't cut Kisame's head off
>Kisame's skin easily got pierced by a fodder

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## The All Unknowing (Nov 26, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> my world is just shattering. I honestly can't believe that you all are trying to prove that Minato can cut Kisames head off. I'm not surprised that it's being denied but the fact any of you even entertain such an argument just shows how dedicated you are to the battledome you all have my respect.
> 
> The strongest I can see Kisame defeating would be restricted Tsunade (war arc byakugo & no katsuyu)


lol. I just felt it necessary to explain why I believe it. And also that he can even keep his spine attached and still die very easily. So even if the argument for him winning is that his spine can't be cut (which is long odds as is), the rest of the throat being cut still = death. So even if one is convinced that he can't cut through the spine, he still takes the L regardless

Reactions: Like 2


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## t0xeus (Nov 26, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> I can agree with this but how does he do it? I'm interested to know


He just puts Samehada in front of him whenever Third Raikage rushes head-straight to him, and similarly to when KB tried to Lariat Kisame, Third Raikage loses his RnY / Hell Stab before he deals any serious dmg, as he is considerably slower than V2 KB.
So Kisame can either fight with him like this and outlast him, or he can use Daikodan which Third Raikage showed no counter to, or put him in Waterdome and drown him to death.

Either way he wins this high-diff because of Third Raikage's absurd chakra reserves.


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 26, 2016)

Don't sleep on Kisame's durability, even though he was taken out by Hirodora, he was still able to match 6-Tailed Bee's physical strength. That's an exceptional feat of strength.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 28, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> my world is just shattering. I honestly can't believe that you all are trying to prove that Minato can cut Kisames head off.





PhantomSage said:


> Not like he can survive getting stabbed in the neck anyways. Or an Oodama level Rasengan.





Jackalinthebox said:


> >Minato can't cut Kisame's head off
> >Kisame's skin easily got pierced by a fodder


Dont know if this has been brought up yet, but minato puts a great deal of force behind his kunai hits, enough to threaten AAAA through his V2 cloak (a V1 shrugged off a chidori katana and a full force chidori) it was deemed enough of a threat for Bee to feel the need to bail A out, and minato still did enough to severely damage a BM tentacle from Bee, id say it packs more than enough punch to lop kisames head off.

Or as phantom mentioned, kisames head would also get taken off by a odama rasengan to the jaw.

Reactions: Like 2


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