# Amon vs Azula



## OS (Jun 15, 2012)

Scenario 1 :Who's the better antagonist for the Avatar series? 

Scenario 2: Who's got more swag?

Bonus Scenario: Who'll win in a fight? (pretty sure we know who)

Ozai isn't worthy 



vs


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

Can we just chill on the Amon threads until we see the Korra season finale, please?  We haven't really seen what Amon can do in a prolonged fight.

I will say this, though.  Azula would not have been able to resist Tarrlok's bloodbending.


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## OS (Jun 15, 2012)

Oman said:


> Can we just chill on the Amon threads until we see the Korra season finale, please?  We haven't really seen what Amon can do in a prolonged fight.
> 
> I will say this, though.  Azula would not have been able to resist Tarrlok's bloodbending.



Totally missing the point of this thread.


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## Amae (Jun 15, 2012)

Amon would lose from what we've seen.


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## Stunna (Jun 15, 2012)

Azula for both scenarios. No offense, Amon.


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## Rax (Jun 15, 2012)

Bet Amon is like a fucking Cyborg.


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## Strange of Eternity (Jun 15, 2012)

Azula FTW in 3 scenarios.


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## Ice (Jun 15, 2012)

Amon has more swag.


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## willyvereb (Jun 15, 2012)

Red Hero said:


> Bet Amon is like a fucking Cyborg.


That would certainly explain his resistance to blood bending.

Although makes his martial arts and chi blocking feats less believable.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Jun 15, 2012)

It could be that he's just that THAT freaking tough, to be able to resist Tarrlok's blood bending like that.


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## willyvereb (Jun 15, 2012)

Colonel Awesome said:


> It could be that he's just that THAT freaking tough, to be able to resist Tarrlok's blood bending like that.


I'm thinking more along the lines of classic ki/chi manipulation.
He can control his chi but since he's a non-Bender Amon is unable to perform elemental attacks.

On the other hand his mastery over circulating his own chi allows Amon to dispel the Blood Bending's effects.

Just like apparently Aang managed to dispel Blood Bending by powering up.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Jun 15, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> I'm thinking more along the lines of classic ki/chi manipulation.
> He can control his chi but since he's a non-Bender Amon is unable to perform elemental attacks.
> 
> On the other hand his mastery over circulating his own chi allows Amon to dispel the Blood Bending's effects.
> ...





I like your explanation better. I need to brush up on Avatar.


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

Aang powering up simply could have given him enough waterbending power to resist.


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## willyvereb (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't think regular water bending abilities are enough to resist blood bending.
Then again my memories of the original series are hazy at best.


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> I don't think regular water bending abilities are enough to resist blood bending.
> Then again my memories of the original series are hazy at best.



Katara resisted Hama's bloodbending with her own waterbending.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 15, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> I'm thinking more along the lines of classic ki/chi manipulation.
> He can control his chi but since he's a non-Bender Amon is unable to perform elemental attacks.
> 
> On the other hand his mastery over circulating his own chi allows Amon to dispel the Blood Bending's effects.
> ...


Given how he _does_ seem to have energy bending, he isn't a non-bender. He's a bender. So that's out for speculation.


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## willyvereb (Jun 15, 2012)

Oman said:


> Katara resisted Hama's bloodbending with her own waterbending.


Katara is a blood bender, as well.
So there's a fat chance she used her own blood bending abilities to counter that.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Given how he _does_ seem to have energy bending, he isn't a non-bender. He's a bender. So that's out for speculation.


You mean the part about Amon taking the bending powers of others away?

Nah, that's more like abusing some pressure points. Just the way Chi blockers of the equalists operate. Only turned up to 11.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 15, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> You mean the part about Amon taking the bending powers of others away?
> 
> Nah, that's more like abusing some pressure points. Just the way Chi blockers of the equalists operate. Only turned up to 11.


He did the exact same thing Aang did to take away bending, like against Yakone. Its Energybending, like the Lion Turtle said 'before we bended the elements, we bended the energy within ourselves'.


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Katara is a blood bender, as well.
> So there's a fat chance she used her own blood bending abilities to counter that.



Bloodbending is the same ability as waterbending, just applied in a different way.  So it really makes no difference, it's just using waterbending to negate another waterbender's hold on your body.



> You mean the part about Amon taking the bending powers of others away?
> 
> Nah, that's more like abusing some pressure points. Just the way Chi blockers of the equalists operate. Only turned up to 11.



Chi blocking isn't permanent.  Amon's technique is.


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## willyvereb (Jun 15, 2012)

Oman said:


> Bloodbending is the same ability as waterbending, just applied in a different way.  So it really makes no difference, it's just using waterbending to negate another waterbender's hold on your body.


It's like saying that every earth bender can use metal bending with ease.
Yes, they can bend metals with training but 

Same way unless there are feats, I don't believe that every water bender has the way to overcome blood bending.

Actually, going by just the flashback with Tarrlok's father he managed to incapacitate everyone, even water benders.





> Chi blocking isn't permanent.  Amon's technique is.


Actually, that yet needs to be testified.
The very least Amon's ability can seal bending powers for a very long time.

Anyways, from the looks of it Amon needs to push a specific point at the person's cerebellum to block bending powers. Cerebellum is an important part of the brain that controls motion and subconscious activities. Maybe Amon has an advanced pressure point technique that blocks the brain's subconscious ability to activate bending powers.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 15, 2012)

What if Amon is stealing rather than just removing bending? This would explain why she wants Korra to get at her prime before fighting her all out and leave her for last.

I want a villain that can actually fight on equal terms an Avatar State Avatar rather than be "lol stomped" as soon as AS is used.


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> It's like saying that every earth bender can use metal bending with ease.
> Yes, they can bend metals with training but
> 
> Same way unless there are feats, I don't believe that every water bender has the way to overcome blood bending.
> ...



Bloodbending is still just waterbending applied in a certain way. The original point was that the Avatar State increased Aang's waterbending power to the point that he could resist bloodbending.  You responded ordinary waterbending doesn't seem to be enough to resist bloodbending.  Well...yeah.  Hence the idea that the Avatar State _boosted_ Aang's waterbending power to the point that he could resist.  Bloodbending isn't some technique that you need to study or train with; as long as you're already a proficient waterbender, you just do it.  Katara's quick usage of bloodbending in "The Puppetmaster" proves this.

As for Yakone incapacitating everyone including waterbenders, Yakone and Tarrlok are unique in that they can bloodbend whenever, while other waterbenders can't bloodbend unless it's during the full moon.  Regular waterbenders can't resist them.



> Actually, that needs yet needs to be testified.
> The very least Amon's ability can seal bending powers for a very long time.



Tahno says that he's visited the best healers in the city, and as far as they can tell, it's permanent.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 15, 2012)

Wasnt Hama there to specifically teach Katara how to use bloodbending?

Hama had to practice bloodbending on rats before she could do it on the guards. Katara was also considered master level by the beginning of season 2 so she could very well be Pakku-level or higher by the time she met Hama and bloodbending.

Anyways, Azula takes all three scenarios so far, but the first two are close.


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Wasnt Hama there to specifically teach Katara how to use bloodbending?
> 
> Hama had to practice bloodbending on rats before she could do it on the guards.
> 
> Anyways, Azula takes all three scenarios so far, but the first two are close.



Yes, but Katara refused to learn.  Hama practiced on rats so she could learn to precisely control movements, but the actual act of bloodbending wasn't something that needed practice.  There is no form or approach needed for bloodbending, like with bending metal or lightning.  Just the condition that it can only be done under a full moon (except for Tarrlok and Yakone...)


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 15, 2012)

Oman said:


> Yes, but Katara refused to learn.  Hama practiced on rats so she could learn to precisely control movements, but the actual act of bloodbending wasn't something that needed practice.  There is no form or approach needed for bloodbending, like with bending metal or lightning.  Just the condition that it can only be done under a full moon (except for Tarrlok and Yakone...)



So you're saying bloodbending is easier to learn than metalbending or lightningbending by the same level of waterbender, earthbender and firebender respectively?


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> So you're saying bloodbending is easier to learn than metalbending or lightningbending by the same level of waterbender, earthbender and firebender respectively?



Yes.  Lightning generation requires understanding the energies used and peace of mind; metalbending requires being able to sense the particles of earth in the metal. There is no internal requirement for bloodbending, just (usually) the external requirement of a full moon.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 15, 2012)

Actually there is a difference between waterbending and bloodbending. 

Conventional waterbending requires control over the water alone. Water in the body is diluted with plasma from the blood and among the muscles, organs and bones of the body. Conventional waterbending skills alone wont move the muscles and bones of a waking /active person, especially one resisting. 

Im comfortable in saying you need extra focus on the water inside the body to fully control them in the case of bloodbending. Katara is just as strong as 6 competent waterbenders, but she needed the greater control given to her by the fullmoon to use it.


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## willyvereb (Jun 15, 2012)

Not to mention that it appears that people need to "born" as a blood bender.
IIRC, in the original series being a blood bender was a cultural stigma.
I doubt any random waterbender can block it. Much less to use it without training.
Otherwise it wouldn't be banned.
Or if did, all the water benders would be an object of scorn for their potential to blood bend.
They aren't.


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Actually there is a difference between waterbending and bloodbending.
> 
> Conventional waterbending requires control over the water alone. Water in the body is diluted with plasma from the blood and among the muscles, organs and bones of the body. Conventional waterbending skills alone wont move the muscles and bones of a waking /active person, especially one resisting.
> 
> Im comfortable in saying you need extra focus on the water inside the body to fully control them in the case of bloodbending. Katara is just as strong as 6 competent waterbenders, but she needed the greater control given to her by the fullmoon to use it.



Well...yeah.  That's the difference.  The point is, you don't need to _learn_ anything.  You just get the extra power, then you do it.



willyvereb said:


> Not to mention that it appears that people need to "born" as a blood bender.



No, just people like Yakone and Tarrlok who can bloodbend in the light of day.



> IIRC, in the original series being a blood bender was a cultural stigma.



Bloodbending didn't exist in the original series until Hama invented it.  By 28 years after the show, when Yakone was around, it had gained a cultural stigma.



> I doubt any random waterbender can block it. Much less to use it without training.
> Otherwise it wouldn't be banned.
> Or if did, all the water benders would be an object of scorn for their potential to blood bend.
> They aren't.



It's banned because other benders and non-benders are defenseless against it.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 15, 2012)

Oman said:


> Well...yeah.  That's the difference.  The point is, you don't need to _learn_ anything.  You just get the extra power, then you do it.



Well how much power is needed to achieve bloodbending though?

Katara can do waterbending that takes 6+ waterbenders from North to do. Yet she still needed the full moon to do it. I dont think a competant waterbender will just be able to bloodbending when the moon is full.

Is it faster for a competent firebender to learn the philosophy of lightningbending, over a competent waterbender to reach Katara's level in season 3 so that they can do bloodbending during the fullmoon?


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## Wan (Jun 15, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well how much power is needed to achieve bloodbending though?
> 
> Katara can do waterbending that takes 6+ waterbenders from North to do. Yet she still needed the full moon to do it. I dont think a competant waterbender will just be able to bloodbending when the moon is full.
> 
> Is it faster for a competent firebender to learn the philosophy of lightningbending, over a competent waterbender to reach Katara's level in season 3 so that they can do bloodbending during the fullmoon?



I'm not sure it's an actual matter of power for a normal waterbender.  Normal waterbenders need the boost from the full moon to bloodbend (Tarrlok and Yakone aren't normal).  But other than that, no actual skill is needed to learn.  The only condition required for bloodbending is the full moon, period.  Do you have evidence to back up your suggestion that complex training in waterbending is required for bloodbending?


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## Chuck (Jun 15, 2012)

Amon definitely has more swag 
and he looks more intimidating, dat mask


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 15, 2012)

Oman said:


> I But other than that, no actual skill is needed to learn.  The only condition required for bloodbending is the full moon, period.  Do you have evidence to back up your suggestion that complex training in waterbending is required for bloodbending?



Not including the Korra series only Hama and Katara were shown to use bloodbending. Both are considered master-level waterbenders with a great amount of skill in terms of control. 

In season 2, Katara was cutting through steel with the use of water just from her pouch. In season 3 Katara was cutting through wood with just the beads of sweat from her forehead. In Puppetmaster, Hama effortlessly sliced a solid rock in half with just the amount of water pulled from a bed of flowers.

Besides Pakku I've never seen any other waterbender to show such feats of awesome that rival Katara or Hama. Even in the battle of the NWT, the average Waterbenders were doing very little damage compared to having the entire battlefield as potential bending material.

Hama and Katara are just that much better than the average waterbender like Toph is just that much better than the average Earthbender.  Having Katara resist and fight Hama with bloodbending doesnt indicate to me that the average waterbender that fought in the S1 finale could have done the same to Hama. Have six of them switch places with Katara in the Puppetmaster - and Hama would have them eating dirt defenseless just like Tarrlok did to Amon's Equalists.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 15, 2012)

The Flying Chuck said:


> Amon definitely has more swag
> and he looks more intimidating, dat mask




​


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## Spirit King (Jun 15, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Not including the Korra series only Hama and Katara were shown to use bloodbending. Both are considered master-level waterbenders with a great amount of skill in terms of control.
> 
> In season 2, Katara was cutting through steel with the use of water just from her pouch. In season 3 Katara was cutting through wood with just the beads of sweat from her forehead. In Puppetmaster, Hama effortlessly sliced a solid rock in half with just the amount of water pulled from a bed of flowers.
> 
> ...



TBF it seems unlikely blood bending is all that rare. The council was surprised that Yakone could do it outside of the full moon, not that yakone could do it. Blood bending is also specifically outlawed, while not definate proof it does imply that the it's not surprising for the average master level water bender to be able to do it. Katara also did it without prior training. So there is plenty of evidence that your strength of waterbending is a pretty big factor.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 15, 2012)

Spirit King said:


> TBF it seems unlikely blood bending is all that rare. The council was surprised that Yakone could do it outside of the full moon, not that yakone could do it.



Republic City was founded by the Gaang who had knowledge on Metalbending, lightningbending and bloodbending. In sharing knowledge to create a Utopian city, it would be easy for Katara/Aang/Sokka to document the details of Bloodbending so that future uses of it could easily be identified, unlike the ghost/witch story which came up in the Puppetmaster due to the lack of  knowledge about it. 



> Blood bending is also specifically outlawed, while not definate proof it does imply that the it's not surprising for the average master level water bender to be able to do it.



It just seems as if  some people are saying any waterbender master-level or not can just pull out bloodbending during a full moon. Katara could do a water-whip in S1 and octopuss-stance in S2. They're both just waterbending right? But didnt Katara have to train harder to use octopuss-stance? Why do people think you dont have to train to use bloodbending which is arguably the hardest type of waterbending there is.

Katara was already master-level way before season 3, prodigy-like even. 

Fullmoon is not an on/off switch to just make bloodbending available or not. What it does is boost your waterbending to the max. If the strongest waterbenders in series 1 couldnt use bloodbending without the fullmoon, would that by default make it the hardest waterbending technique there is...?

If other waterbending techniques below the difficulty-level of bloodbending all need some level or skill or training - why would people think bloodbending still doesnt require great skill during a full moon...? Unless people are going to say any waterbender can do any waterbending technique just because the moon is full....



> Katara also did it without prior training. So there is plenty of evidence that your strength of waterbending is a pretty big factor.



Toph didnt actually train to metalbend either, one moment she couldnt, and then next she did...she just focused hard enough at that one moment. If metalbending is just about greater focus how is that different to a bloodbender focusing harder on the fluids in the body?

Why is metalbending harder to learn when numerous earthbenders can do it at any time of the day? Are some people saying a technique that Katara with her prodigy-like learning and master-level skills and power, cant do AT ALL during the day OR NIGHT (which also boosts her power) is an easier technique than what Mako or metalbending cops can use casually everyday of the week...?


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## Chuck (Jun 15, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> ​




[sp=dat Amon]look at dat head turn 


look at him dodging dat lightning like a bawss 


Azula is a lightning bender too iirc 


look at dat eye contact 
[/sp]


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## Spirit King (Jun 15, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Republic City was founded by the Gaang who had knowledge on Metalbending, lightningbending and bloodbending. In sharing knowledge to create a Utopian city, it would be easy for Katara/Aang/Sokka to document the details of Bloodbending so that future uses of it could easily be identified, unlike the ghost/witch story which came up in the Puppetmaster due to the lack of  knowledge about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not that metal bending is harder to learn it's just physically impossible outside of a full moon for blood bending to be possible (outside of Yakone etc), the full moon is like the fire benders comet you don't need to train specifically in order to use stronger fire bending techniques in the comet their bending is simply strengthed, the same for water benders during the full moon, normally they don't have enough water bending power to do it but the full moon enablies them to do so. It's not a technique learned (outside of yakone etc even then it may be blood related), it's a statistic boost which is why everybody can learn to do do metal bending anytime but blood bending is limited to the full moon.

Water benders can manipulate water naturaly, when their stronger they can manipulate blood naturally. Is their specific water bending techniques yes, same for blood bending but the ability itself is natural.


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## Gone (Jun 15, 2012)

Azula curbstomps the shit out of him in a fight.

Amon *might*, have more swag, but thats only because hes voiced by the most badass VA to ever live. The talents of Steven Blum aside, Azula has more swag.

Thus far Azula is a better antagonist.



Orochibuto said:


> I want a villain that can actually fight on equal terms an Avatar State Avatar rather than be "lol stomped" as soon as AS is used.



Which is why Azula KOing Aang in the avatar state is one of the most badass moments in both series.


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## OS (Jun 15, 2012)

Fuck most of you guys for derailing the thread. Willy I am disappoint


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## All Star Rogue (Jun 15, 2012)

Haven't even watched Korra yet, and I think Amon has more swag.

Azula's a very cool antagonist though.


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## kageyame (Jun 15, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> Azula curbstomps the shit out of him in a fight.
> 
> Amon *might*, have more swag, but thats only because hes voiced by the most badass VA to ever live. The talents of Steven Blum aside, Azula has more swag.
> 
> ...



1st, based on what Azula curbstomps Amon? Amon show that he could deal with lightning benders) just fine, and that one of Azula trump cards.

The other 2 I would not comment because, by forum rules they shouldn't even be here.

P.S.
Azula cheap shotted a trying to enter avatar state Aang, big difference than being a enemy on equal footing during a fight.


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## Gone (Jun 15, 2012)

kageyame said:


> 1st, based on what Azula curbstomps Amon? Amon show that he could deal with lightning benders) just fine, and that one of Azula trump cards.



He dodged some cheap shit lightning benders, none of them on the level of Azula, who was beating Aang when he had learned 3/4 elements. Furthermore she was still able to dodge and keep out of the groups range when she didnt even have her firebending.

Amons big thing seems to be dodging the benders initial attack then getting up close and using his fancy chi blocking moves. Azula is too much of a skilled fighter to be caught off guard by that, she would be able to block and dodge his attacks, and still have her firebending.

And I wouldnt call lightning her trump card. The only time I ever recall it really making that huge a difference for her was when she KOed Aang with it. Shes lolstomped Zuko, Aang, I think Katara, without really using too much lightning



> The other 2 I would not comment because, by forum rules they shouldn't even be here.







> Azula cheap shotted a trying to enter avatar state Aang, big difference than being a enemy on equal footing during a fight.



I believe I said it was a badass scene, not an impressive feat to say she was on equal footing with Avatar Aang.

The scene itself was badass because everybody thinks Aangs about to enter the avatar state and squash all the bugs like usual. Then he gets KOed and Azulas standing there super casually like "lol lightning", as if thats what she had been waiting for all along.

And for the record he was in the avatar state, not trying to enter it.


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## Bender (Jun 15, 2012)

Amon wins due to:


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## Velocity (Jun 15, 2012)

It depends on her mindset, I think. Azula was the third or fourth most powerful Firebender in the show, behind only Iroh, Ozai and _possibly_ Jeong Jeong. She had the potential to become even more powerful than her father, but that kinda went down the drain when she starting going crazy. That she can Lightningbend on top of that insane Firebending skill makes her a pretty serious thread if she is serious herself. Let's not forget that, thus far, Amon hasn't actually fought any real Master Benders. Lightning Bolt Zolt and the White Falls Wolfbats weren't exactly top tier material. Even Tarrlok only really went down because he was too distracted by Amon's seeming immunity to Bloodbending.

I don't rate Amon's chances very highly in a fight against most of the Master Benders in The Legend of Aang. Once Zuko shows up in next week's episode (the finale is next week, right?), Amon is toast.


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## Bender (Jun 15, 2012)

Amon is pretty agile against benders in general though, I mean in the one hour season finale we see him handling Korra's firebending. Also he wasn't shaken by benders in the probending arena.


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## Velocity (Jun 15, 2012)

Bender said:


> Amon is pretty agile against benders in general though, I mean in the one hour season finale we see him handling Korra's firebending. Also he wasn't shaken by benders in the probending arena.



Korra's Firebending basically sucks. I wouldn't use her as a measuring stick when nothing implies she's not even at end-of-series Zuko's level, let alone any better, and he admitted he didn't stand a chance against Azula normally.

So far, Amon has been fortunate to fight Benders who are too aggressive and predictable. Azula is anything but either of those.


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## Amae (Jun 15, 2012)

Azula was able to run and dodge attacks from Aang, has Amon proven to be as agile?


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## Bender (Jun 15, 2012)

@Velocity

Touche. Yeah, it does seem that Amon is able to get the jump on benders due to them freaking out at the  very sight of him.


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## kageyame (Jun 15, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> He dodged some cheap shit lightning benders, none of them on the level of Azula, who was beating Aang when he had learned 3/4 elements. Furthermore she was still able to dodge and keep out of the groups range when she didnt even have her firebending.
> 
> Amons big thing seems to be dodging the benders initial attack then getting up close and using his fancy chi blocking moves. Azula is too much of a skilled fighter to be caught off guard by that, she would be able to block and dodge his attacks, and still have her firebending.
> 
> *And I wouldnt call lightning her trump card*. The only time I ever recall it really making that huge a difference for her was when she KOed Aang with it. Shes lolstomped Zuko, Aang, I think Katara, without really using too much lightning



That makes sense, but Aazula as cauth off guard before, without knowlegde of the other party, nothing says it isnt possible, just unlikely.

I really think this thread should be put on hold after the Season finalle, right know whe have powerscaling and hype to go by.




Ryjacork said:


>



Well, did I lied? AFAIK opinion/popularity/better character etc shouldn't be in the Battle dome. 





Ryjacork said:


> I believe I said it was a badass scene, not an impressive feat to say she was on equal footing with Avatar Aang.
> 
> The scene itself was badass because everybody thinks Aangs about to enter the avatar state and squash all the bugs like usual. Then he gets KOed and Azulas standing there super casually like "lol lightning", as if thats what she had been waiting for all along.
> 
> And for the record he was in the avatar state, not trying to enter it.



The fact that you outright quoting a statement saying that would be good to see a fight on equal footing, that kinda seemed like it was what you're trying to imply.

And for the record, he was still opening the last Chakra to control the avatar state, so much that he was in stasis at the moment he got shot down by Azula.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 15, 2012)

is it wrong that I thought this was Devilman Amon


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## Bender (Jun 15, 2012)

@Crimson Dragoon

Yes...yes it would. 








On another note, doesn't Azula always get the edge on most of her opponents due to catching them off guard as well? She did it to Iroh, and got the edge on Zuko when she targeted Katara in their final battle.


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## Velocity (Jun 15, 2012)

She's unpredictable, which is exactly the worst kind of opponent Amon could face.


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## Bender (Jun 15, 2012)

@Velocity

True, but Amon's Xanatos Gambits are uncannily efficient. I mean who would've imagined he would benefit even from the probending arena being opened?


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## Velocity (Jun 15, 2012)

Bender said:


> @Velocity
> 
> True, but Amon's Xanatos Gambits are uncannily efficient. I mean who would've imagined he would benefit even from the probending arena being opened?



That was a predictable move, though. Tell people that don't like you that you'll punish them for doing something and they'll go ahead and do it anyway, just to spite you.

Azula is a bit more spontaneous than that. She didn't even know if Aang could be hurt in the Avatar State, yet she shot him with lightning anyway. She could've struck Zuko down, but chose to aim for Katara instead. She attacked Iroh directly instead of covering her escape.


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## Mider T (Jun 15, 2012)

It'd be a great battle, because it'd be a battle of the wits as well.  However, Azula's battle with Suki tells me that'd she probably this.  I doubt Amon could touch her.  She has pre-knowledge of chi-blocking as well so she'd be on her guard.


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## Bender (Jun 15, 2012)

Velocity said:


> That was a predictable move, though. Tell people that don't like you that you'll punish them for doing something and they'll go ahead and do it anyway, just to spite you.



Hmm, I suppose so. However, the assault on the arena was just...wow. Not only did Amon get the upper hand on Tenzin, Lin and them but he was able to spread his political philosophy by pointing out how "The Wolfbats" cheated in the competition even though they're talented benders.  



> Azula is a bit more spontaneous than that. She didn't even know if Aang could be hurt in the Avatar State, yet she shot him with lightning anyway. She could've struck Zuko down, but chose to aim for Katara instead. She attacked Iroh directly instead of covering her escape.



Eh, I think you're giving Azula too much credit. I'm certain Azula was counting on Zuko of intercepting the blow for Katara and thus allowing her to charge after her. Also Iroh was distracted when she was cornered by Aang and co so she aimed at him.


----------



## OS (Jun 15, 2012)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> is it wrong that I thought this was Devilman Amon



Naw. That guy's cool too.


----------



## Bender (Jun 15, 2012)

Devilman was a pretty badass series (fav one dubbed manga entertainment)


----------



## Gone (Jun 15, 2012)

Bender said:


> @Velocity
> 
> True, but Amon's Xanatos Gambits are uncannily efficient.



Having the writers on your side will do that 

Welcome back btw


----------



## Narcissus (Jun 16, 2012)

As of right now, Azula is the better villain. It's not a very fair comparison seeing as how Amon's time on the show isn't over, but as of now Azula has accomplished much more than he has. Her personality is also just as threatening. When she threatened to throw that soldier off the ship, and when she defeated Long Feng  with her words, were both pretty tense.

As for a fight, I give it to Azula now, until we see what Amon is really capable of. Even if he gets close to Azula, she has the flame shield defenestration's that blocked the GAang' attacks.

Either way though, both are great villains.


----------



## Bender (Jun 16, 2012)

^
@Narcissus

Eh, Amon's I am the solution was chilling, also the way Korra broke down after her confrontation with him was sweet. I don't recall Azula ever making anyone breakdown in tears like Amon did to Korra.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 16, 2012)

It would have been more impressive if Amon defeated the Wolfbats on his own with his soldiers just standing there to watch. I think they had enough skills together to make it Amon's best combat feat if the three actually took him on at the same time.  

He probably could have but for now that's just speculation. 

IIRC Amon has only fought average-competent benders one-on-one. Sure he defeated Tarrlok but barring some hax that nullified his bloodbending, he basically defeated a waterbender who had no water to use. 

It took the combined efforts of the Gaang with Zuko & Iroh to first force Azula on her own to retreat.


----------



## RWB (Jun 16, 2012)

In a fight, I believe Azula can win as long as she doesn't attempt to lightningbend.

She's a rather slow lightningbender, and Amon's fast enough to dodge her and get in close enough to chiblock.


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## Narcissus (Jun 16, 2012)

Bender said:


> ^
> @Narcissus
> 
> Eh, Amon's I am the solution was chilling, also the way Korra broke down after her confrontation with him was sweet. I don't recall Azula ever making anyone breakdown in tears like Amon did to Korra.



Yeah, it was chilling, but making a girl cry =/= to giving a speech that makes a man willingly give up his entire army and city. Long Feng didn't have to break down crying to simply be broken.


----------



## Captain Katsura (Jun 16, 2012)

Who is a better villain?  As of right now I would give it to Azula, being able to take over a major enemy city in a few days is imprssive.  Amon is a great villain for Korra, but has not gotten enough screen time and effectiveness as Azula (wait till the season finale).

Swag?  I would say Amon.

Fight? Amon really hasen't had a full out fight with anyone imprssive,  being able to resist bloodbending is good, but it dosen't equate to being able to got toe to toe with someone as great as Azula (wait till the season finale).


----------



## Bender (Jun 16, 2012)

@Narcissus

Bolin also said he couldn't sleep for a week after his encounter with Amon. Plus, wasn't Long Feng a poor excuse for a villain? His whole little conflict with the Gaang barely lasted five episodes.


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## Narcissus (Jun 16, 2012)

Bender said:


> @Narcissus
> 
> Bolin also said he couldn't sleep for a week after his encounter with Amon.


...and? That still doesn't amount to what Azula did.





> Plus, wasn't Long Feng a poor excuse for a villain? His whole little conflict with the Gaang barely lasted five episodes.


No. He wasn't as good of a villain as Azula or Amon, or even Zhao, but he was responsible for keeping keeping Appa away from Aang, using the king as a figure head, and his army killed Jet. Regardless, even if he was, it wouldn't discredit what Azula did. She instilled fear into his loyal army with words and her personality, and then defeated him with words.

Besides, her final line after he admitted defeat handily gives her the better speech.


----------



## Gunners (Jun 16, 2012)

In a straight up fight I'd give the nod to Azula based on what's shown so far. Azula has shown that she can be an effective fighter with her back up against the wall, she's shown that she can be effective when her opponents have not mentally given up and she has shown that she can be effective without ambushing her opponents. 

As a villain Amon is well crafted but it means that we haven't seen him display the best of his abilities because he behaves like a villain and fights in an underhanded manner. 
_____
In terms of who is the better villain they're too different in my eyes. To me Amon is kind of like Ozai in that they represent a movement whereas Azula is a villainous character in and on herself.


----------



## Bioness (Jun 17, 2012)

Bender said:


> @Narcissus
> 
> Bolin also said he couldn't sleep for a week after his encounter with Amon. Plus, wasn't Long Feng a poor excuse for a villain? His whole little conflict with the Gaang barely lasted five episodes.



What does that have to do with anything? Bolin isn't exactly the most courageous person either.

Azula takes all scenarios until we see more of Amon.


----------



## OS (Jun 25, 2012)

Now that we've seen all of Amon. Do you change your answers or does it stay the same?


----------



## Amae (Jun 25, 2012)

Amon loses because he's a pussy.


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## LazyWaka (Jun 25, 2012)

Azula didn't get killed by her brother, Amon did.

Azula > then Amon.


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## Gunners (Jun 25, 2012)

I'd still give the win to Azula assuming she stays mobile.


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## OS (Jun 25, 2012)

Amae said:


> Amon loses because he's a pussy.



what? When?


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 25, 2012)

Azula is a physical beast of her verse , I still give it to her as blood bending seems  stationary and can be slightly resisted like how Korra still managed to get that air kick off or Mako shooting some lightning.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 25, 2012)

1. I'll pick Amon as the better antagonist cause his back story is cooler and more tragic.

2. Swag? Id say even. They both walk around like they're not afraid of anything. 

3. For the fight? Where does the fight take place? Is it near a water source?

Also can someone estimate the range of Amon's bloodbending?


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Jun 25, 2012)

Amon wins rather easily with his latest feats. I don't see Azula beating a bloodbender of the level Amon is.


----------



## Blαck (Jun 26, 2012)

Amon is broken as shit, psychic bloodbending? Azula gets force choked.

Better villain goes to amon, azula had a nervous breakdown just her friends betrayed her.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jun 26, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> what? When?



Probably when he ran from Korra instead of fighting her.


----------



## HiroshiSenju (Jun 26, 2012)

I still say Azula is the better villain. Not only was she badass, but she was scary and calculating (and only 14 years old). Her mental breakdown was amazing. As for a battle between the two, you're deceiving yourself if you believe Azula can win, regardless of what you may think of Amon as a villain. He absolutely assrapes her and proceeds to either kill her or take her bending away. And no, bloodbending is not stationary. Hell, Amon doesn't even have to be looking at his opponent to bloodbend them. Even Yakone was able to bloodbend Aang when the latter was *behind* him.


----------



## kitten320 (Jul 1, 2012)

Bender said:


> ^
> @Narcissus
> 
> Eh, Amon's I am the solution was chilling, also the way Korra broke down after her confrontation with him was sweet. *I don't recall Azula ever making anyone breakdown in tears like Amon did to Korra*.



Are you serious? 

Korra grew up in a warm and kind surrounding where everyone loves her and everything is good and peaceful. She grew in a world where she saw no trouble and being an Avatar made her think more of herself than she actually is.

Then all of a sudden she meets a real threat with real talent. Of course she would be scared! It is not some random thug.

Characters in ATLA world grew up in a time of war. All they saw from the young age were deaths and destruction. I don't see a single one of them breaking down like Korra after meeting Amon.

Besides to be fair Azula did make Sokka cry as well as Ty Lee. And she caused enough of agony to Zuko who broke down a lot. 
Actually her manipulations caused enough of emotional distress in almost everyone. 

She alone over took whole Eath Kingdom by getting Dai Lee's trust. And it is far more impressive than getting trust of miserable non-benders who wish to rule.

Besides once Amon lost his mask, everyone left him. The trust of people was lost that easily.
Azula might have lost trust of her friends but whole nation was still under her feet.

Amon was a less complicated and entertaining character. His back-story was interesting but not that great.
Azula might not have an outspoken back story but if you put all the info together, she is far more tragic than Amon. She was never loved by anyone while Amon had his brother and mother to support him. Azula's mother feared her and spent all her time with Zuko while Azula spent all her time with cruel father from the moment she showed potential. Amon was not as young when his father started to twist him and he was not alone.

Besides Azula easily avoided Aang's and Toph's attacks with no bending and with just small help from Dai Lee while Amon always depended on his blood bending skills.

As shown in flashback, blood bending can be broken with strong force. Azula in not an Avatar but she has a lot of strength. If she were of Amon's age, I could see her doing same trick. 

Though if she did not know about blood bending then Amon would take it. But if she were to have all the knowledge, I could see her coming up with a plan.

Besides if a loser Mako could electrocute Amon, I see no problem with Azula doing the same and finishing him off while he recovers. Her bending is 10 times better than Mako's.

And even if it comes to fight of no bending, Azula is still better at martial arts.

So my vote goes all the way to Azula.

No offence to Amon, he is cool but not that cool.
Though 100% better than Ozai.


----------



## Bender (Jul 1, 2012)

> Korra grew up in a warm and kind surrounding where everyone loves her and everything is good and peaceful. She grew in a world where she saw no trouble and being an Avatar made her think more of herself than she actually is.



Korra had yet to master airbending and always put herself down over it, was unable to connect with the spirit world. Yeah, she had it real good. 



> Characters in ATLA world grew up in a time of war. All they saw from the young age were deaths and destruction. I don't see a single one of them breaking down like Korra after meeting Amon.



Because they had to grow up quickly. Katara and Sokka got the most tears out of them at the time their mother was killed. The LOK era and Equalist are the result of the actions of benders during and after the 100 year war.  




> Besides to be fair Azula did make Sokka cry as well as Ty Lee. And she caused enough of agony to Zuko who broke down a lot.



Sokka  cried because he was worried about Suki. Not out of terror. Ty Lee's crying was meant on a humorous note (I think) and Azula making an accidental insult towards her by calling her a "tease".




> Actually her manipulations caused enough of emotional distress in almost everyone.



"Emotional Distress" not speeches that would cause someone to breakdown and cry. Her mentioning Suki to Sokka was done to buy her time until her bending was back on. It worked.




> She alone over took whole Eath Kingdom by getting Dai Lee's trust. And it is far more impressive than getting trust of miserable non-benders who wish to rule.


Are you shitting me? Dude, the Earth Kingdom was crumbling fromw within before Azula and her crew got there. Also the fact that the Earth King was an idiot who randomly told the "Kyoshi Warriors" who from a logical point of view are strangers would use that information to seize control. And guess what?  Azula did. Thanks to him spilling out the information of "Black Sun" Azula got the jump on the "Gaang" and gained control of the Dai Li. Yeah, that was real difficult.



> Besides once Amon lost his mask, everyone left him. The trust of people was lost that easily.



Amon's physical mask meant a great deal more than Azula's psychological mask. Azula was breaking down because she was having a "rage-against-the-mirror-moment" in which her mother said she actually loved her rather than fear her. The same fearmongering which helped her garner love. Amon won the trust of people through charisma. There's a big difference bro.



> Azula might have lost trust of her friends but whole nation was still under her feet.



The position of firelord was a useless if you consider the fact that her father was going to become god of the entire FREAKING world.





> As shown in flashback, blood bending can be broken with strong force. Azula in not an Avatar but she has a lot of strength.



Azula relies on weaponry (referring to the shuriken" she had when Sokka charged at her) and doesn't have the keen strength nor battle expertise to blast Amon if she is even able to form the hand sign to use lightningbending if she's able to resist it somewhat.



> And even if it comes to fight of no bending, Azula is still better at martial arts.



Shuriken is what she uses broski. Not no martial arts (hand to hand). 



> Though 100% better than Ozai.



Indeed


----------



## Freddy Mercury (Jul 1, 2012)

Bender said:


> Korra had yet to master airbending and always put herself down over it, was unable to connect with the spirit world. Yeah, she had it real good.




Actually her not being able to connect with her spiritual side was entirely based on how good her life has been, as stated by Aang.


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## Bender (Jul 1, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Actually her not being able to connect with her spiritual side was entirely based on how good her life has been, as stated by Aang.



Ohhhh...Yeah, I forgot about that.  Being an airbender you kind of are great deal more spiritual while with those other elements and your persona it's difficult.


----------



## OS (Jul 1, 2012)

HiroshiSenju said:


> I still say Azula is the better villain. *Not only was she badass, but she was scary and calculating* (and only 14 years old). Her mental breakdown was amazing. As for a battle between the two, you're deceiving yourself if you believe Azula can win, regardless of what you may think of Amon as a villain. He absolutely assrapes her and proceeds to either kill her or take her bending away. And no, bloodbending is not stationary. Hell, Amon doesn't even have to be looking at his opponent to bloodbend them. Even Yakone was able to bloodbend Aang when the latter was *behind* him.



That's Amon also.


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## HiroshiSenju (Jul 1, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> That's Amon also.



The difference is, Azula was a 14 year old girl. Don't get me wrong, they are both awesome villains, and both are badass, but Azula has the edge for me just because her character's demise was handled better than Amon's, I believe.


----------



## Island (Jul 1, 2012)

Bender said:


> Korra had yet to master airbending and always put herself down over it, was unable to connect with the spirit world. Yeah, she had it real good.


This doesn't even begin to compare to living in a world where death and destruction is the norm. The Fire Nation exterminated entire peoples and razed villages. Aang had to deal with the genocide of his family, friends, and culture while Katara and Sokka had to deal with the borderline destruction of their way of life. Not only was the Southern Water Tribe stripped of benders and their towns raided and razed but every able-bodied male was marched off to war to prevent the extermination of their people and way of life.

Meanwhile, you have Korra and friends who know absolutely nothing about the turmoils of war and live in a society that's more concerned about non-existent social inequalities than the survival of their culture and society. Amon wasn't about to exterminate every bender in the world whereas Ozai was ready to obliterate the entire Earth Kingdom.

Comparatively, Korra lives a wonderful life.


----------



## Bender (Jul 1, 2012)

Island said:


> This doesn't even begin to compare to living in a world where death and destruction is the norm.



Here we go... 



> The Fire Nation exterminated entire peoples and razed villages. Aang had to deal with the genocide of his family, friends, and culture while Katara and Sokka had to deal with the borderline destruction of their way of life. Not only was the Southern Water Tribe stripped of benders and their towns raided and razed but every able-bodied male was marched off to war to prevent the extermination of their people and way of life.



Yes, Aang had a harsh life that doesn't automatically categorize them as an exceptional character. Sasuke lost his entire clan, and he assumed that his brother was a criminal. Does this make Sasuke a great character? No, it doesn't . Not in the least bit due to how terribly he was written (according to some people). It's how they interacted with the rest of the verse during their screentime and such.


----------



## Island (Jul 1, 2012)

Bender said:


> Yes, Aang had a harsh life that doesn't automatically categorize them as an exceptional character. Sasuke lost his entire clan, and he assumed that his brother was a criminal. Does this make Sasuke a great character? No, it doesn't . Not in the least bit due to how terribly he was written (according to some people). It's how they interacted with the rest of the verse during their screentime and such.


I think you're confused here.

I never said they're great characters. I said that they had it harder than Korra so the comparison of Amon making Korra cry and Azula making people cry is moot.


----------



## Bender (Jul 1, 2012)

Island said:


> I think you're confused here.
> 
> I never said they're great characters.



That's what you're making it sound like.




> I said that they had it harder than Korra



K, here's the thing though broski, we're talking about the deeds of a single person, not an ENTIRE NATION.


----------



## Island (Jul 1, 2012)

Bender said:


> K, here's the thing though broski, we're talking about the deeds of a single person, not an ENTIRE NATION.


Perhaps you missed the point of my post. Somebody said that Korra had a comparatively easy life and then you brought up that Korra couldn't master airbending and that she constantly beat herself up over it. Then I said that none of what Korra went through compares to what ATLA characters went through.

The point of all that was is to say: Amon making Korra cry doesn't make him more intimidating/badass/etc than Azula because Azula didn't make anyone cry to that degree that Korra did because Korra is much more receptive to fear and violence unlike her ATLA counterparts who grew up in a world full of genocide, destruction, etc.


----------



## Bender (Jul 1, 2012)

Island said:


> Perhaps you missed the point of my post.





> The point of all that was is to say: Amon making Korra cry doesn't make him more intimidating/badass/etc than Azula because Azula didn't make anyone cry to that degree that Korra did because Korra is much more receptive to fear and violence unlike her ATLA counterparts who grew up in a world full of genocide, destruction, etc.




Oh, my bad.  I thought that you were using the deeds of the Fire Nation to compare to Amon. 

On another note, my own input in that: I doubt era has anything to do with being or not being receptive to fear. Aang was scared out of his mind at the thought of fighting Ozai, also of facing Koh.


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## Narcissus (Jul 2, 2012)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> Better villain goes to amon, azula had a nervous breakdown just her friends betrayed her.


Stop.

Downplaying Azula's breakdown doesn't negate the actual circumstances of what happened to her. It was much more than that. Nor does it disqualify the things she accomplished during her time as villain.





Waking Dreamer said:


> Probably when he ran from Korra instead of fighting her.


Assuming you mean when his identity was revealed, then that'd be a stupid reason. Fighting her would've been pointless at that point.


----------



## Bender (Jul 2, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> Stop.
> 
> Downplaying Azula's breakdown doesn't negate the actual circumstances of what happened to her. It was much more than that. Nor does it disqualify the things she accomplished during her time as villain.



People are overrating Azula's victory of Ba Sing Se so much it's ridiculous. Seriously, the Earth King was just recovering from a conspiracy plot under the rule of his treacherous advisor and the Dai Li. And next thing you know the Earth King's dumbass goes rambling about "The Gaangs" plan to the "Kyoshi Warriors".

Not saying Azula's not impressive, but fearmongering can only get you so far in comparison to charisma.


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## Gunners (Jul 2, 2012)

The Earth King wasn't a dumbass for disclosing the Gaang's plan to the Kyoshi warriors at first they were skeptical of them however they group received Sokka's approval. 

Also Azula was apparently a charismatic individual which is why the Dai Lee betrayed Long Feng they had more faith in her as a leader as apparently the things she said and did instilled a sense of confidence in the men.


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## Narcissus (Jul 2, 2012)

Bender said:


> People are overrating Azula's victory of Ba Sing Se so much it's ridiculous. Seriously, the Earth King was just recovering from a conspiracy plot under the rule of his treacherous advisor and the Dai Li. And next thing you know the Earth King's dumbass goes rambling about "The Gaangs" plan to the "Kyoshi Warriors".
> 
> Not saying Azula's not impressive, but fearmongering can only get you so far in comparison to charisma.


Stop.

First of all, you're wrong about people overrating Azula. She plotted a coup and took over the city in days, while the Fire Nation had constantly failed to take the city for the entirety of the war. She took charge of the Dai Lee with nothing but her personality, and then talked Long Feng into submission.

Second, I didn't specifically mention her victory of Ba Sing Se, because that is not the only thing she accomplished. She came up with the final plan to burn the Earth Kingdom down, and is the only known person to strike down the Avatar. She also thwarted the Gaang's plan to use the eclipse to defeat the Fire Nation.

You, and no one else, will get to sit there and downplay what she accomplished, and ignorantly misrepresent what caused her breakdown. 

Take a seat.


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## Bender (Jul 2, 2012)

@Narcissus

It IS overrated. What part of crumbling government don't you understand? The reason Iroh and the others had failed in their time is because they had too much of a predictable approach at conquering it. It was only until Long Feng had come along that the Dai Li and other Earth Kingdom's soldiers efforts of repelling Fire Nation forces had been to usurp the rule of the ATLA Earth King's rule. There is very little evidence to claim
 that there was full effort into preventing Azula from taking control of it.

Also, dude get over yourself Azula sneak attacked Aang; she didn't fight him up front. That's like saying you were genuinely beaten down even though you were sucker punched.


----------



## Narcissus (Jul 2, 2012)

Bender said:


> It IS overrated.


So you constantly assert, yet fail to prove.





> There is very little evidence to claim
> that there was full effort into preventing Azula from taking control of it.


Because the strategy she used to take over the city nullified any effort in taking it over. She took command of the city's protective forces from the inside. It was an intelligent thing to do when brute force had constantly failed.





> Also, dude get over yourself


No.





> Azula sneak attacked Aang; she didn't fight him up front. That's like saying you were genuinely beaten down even though you were sucker punched.


Oh look, a straw man!

I didn't say she legitimately fought Aang when she struck him down, only that she did, and is the only known person to do so. It speaks volumes of her intelligence that she did so rather than just standing there and watching him enter the Avatar State.


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## Bender (Jul 2, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> So you constantly assert, yet fail to prove.Because the strategy she used to take over the city nullified any effort in taking it over. She took command of the city's protective forces from the inside.



Dude, I've been saying why her victory was so easily executed. This time for gods sake pay closer attention to what I'm saying: The Earth King being an idiot blabbed to the so-called "Kyoshi Warriors" about Black Sun even though it had been less than 24 hours since the conspiracy involving Long Feng and the Dai Li had been dissolved. Are you seriously suggesting that it's clever to take down a government that was just recovering from a take over? 



> I didn't say she legitimately fought Aang when she struck him down, only that she did, and is the only known person to do so. It speaks volumes of her intelligence that she did so rather than just standing there and watching him enter the Avatar State.



Which is why I'm saying it's less impressive considering how she had shot him from behind.


----------



## OS (Jul 2, 2012)

Bender said:


> Dude, I've been saying why her victory was so easily executed. This time for gods sake pay closer attention to what I'm saying: The Earth King being an idiot blabbed to the so-called "Kyoshi Warriors" about Black Sun even though it had been less than 24 hours since the conspiracy involving Long Feng and the Dai Li had been dissolved. *Are you seriously suggesting that it's clever to take down a government that was just recovering from a take over? *



That is smart. And the King trusted the warriors because Sokka said they are very trustworthy and personal friends.


----------



## Bender (Jul 2, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> That is smart. And the King trusted the warriors because Sokka said they are very trustworthy and personal friends.



Still...Sokka wasn't specific in the least bit on the Kyoshi warriors who appeared which one was Suki. I know Sokka is smart and all but the least he could have done is go to see them to see if it was truly Suki.  Even if the Warriors weren't Azula and her sidekicks in disguise, The Earth King just openly blabbed about a major, secret military operation to a group of warriors he'd met literally seconds ago. Not to mention the Earth King didn't tell the Gaang that he told Azula and her group about the day of black sun.


----------



## Narcissus (Jul 2, 2012)

Bender said:


> This time for gods sake pay closer attention to what I'm saying


Or maybe you should try saying something of actual worth?





> The Earth King being an idiot blabbed to the so-called "Kyoshi Warriors" about Black Sun even though it had been less than 24 hours since the conspiracy involving Long Feng and the Dai Li had been dissolved.


Because Sokka said they were trustworthy. The king would've had no reason to doubt them at that point.





> Are you seriously suggesting that it's clever to take down a government that was just recovering from a take over?


Yes, it is, because attacking at a moment of weakness allowed her to take over the city when all other tactics had failed.





> Which is why I'm saying it's less impressive considering how she had shot him from behind.


This would actual mean something, if I had claimed otherwise. It's notable because it shows how intelligent she was.

You done with the straw men?


----------



## kitten320 (Jul 3, 2012)

Bender said:


> Korra had yet to master airbending and always put herself down over it, was unable to connect with the spirit world. Yeah, she had it real good.
> Because they had to grow up quickly. Katara and Sokka got the most tears out of them at the time their mother was killed. The LOK era and Equalist are the result of the actions of benders during and after the 100 year war.



You've just proven my words!
Korra was not really that bothered with Air bending, she actually was about to forget about it. And seriously, are you saying it is far more tragic and emotional than losing your families, nations right in front of your eyes?

Bring Azula into this age of peace and half of the nation would cry and hide in terror while Amon would not even get teary eyes on people from the past.



> Sokka  cried because he was worried about Suki.



Azula knew perfectly well where to press so it would hurt and scare.
Amon is not that different.



> Are you shitting me? Dude, the Earth Kingdom was crumbling fromw within before Azula and her crew got there. Also the fact that the Earth King was an idiot who randomly told the "Kyoshi Warriors" who from a logical point of view are strangers would use that information to seize control. And guess what?  Azula did. Thanks to him spilling out the information of "Black Sun" Azula got the jump on the "Gaang" and gained control of the Dai Li. Yeah, that was real difficult.



So what? She is the only one who thought of taking the city from the inside and that speaks volumes. All Amon did was to get a rich/smart guy on his side that created bunch of machines and did all the work through violence while she did by simply using brains.
Dai Li are a special force that obey the strongest.
Are you really implying that taking control of bunch of simple minded people with no real skills is more impressive than getting support and trust of special agents whose Earth Bending was of high class standard and who followed the strongest of the strongest?



> Amon's physical mask meant a great deal more than Azula's psychological mask. Azula was breaking down because she was having a "rage-against-the-mirror-moment" in which her mother said she actually loved her rather than fear her. The same fearmongering which helped her garner love. Amon won the trust of people through charisma. There's a big difference bro.



Amon's mask was an illusion that he used while she used actual influence. 
Amon got all the support because he could take bending away, that's the only real thing that inspired people to follow him. Though once they found out that he is a bender, even that power didn't allow him to control them and he fled.
Then we see a suicide scene.

You totally misunderstood Azula's character... She was used and twisted from the day she was born. Mother didn't show love to her and father used her. People whom she considered to be friends betrayed her. There is so much going on for her, it was not just a mirror! The mirror was already a result of her breakdown, that was an illusion. What Ursa from the mirror said is what Azula wanted to hear for real. She is far more complicated than you think and she broke down for many reasons that Amon never really encountered. 
Yeh he had a twisted father too but he had a loving mother, brother and lived in days of peace. And he got twisted at the older age. Azula was already a twisted child at the age Amon got to taste it.



> The position of firelord was a useless if you consider the fact that her father was going to become god of the entire FREAKING world.



She still would be second in command. She was about to have whole Fire Nation under her control while Amon controlled 1 city.



> Azula relies on weaponry (referring to the shuriken" she had when Sokka charged at her) and doesn't have the keen strength nor battle expertise to blast Amon if she is even able to form the hand sign to use lightningbending if she's able to resist it somewhat.



Eeehhh... you yourself said few moments ago that she was trying to buy time because she had no bending... What did you expect her to do there? Puff smoke in Sokka's face who has a sword? As you said, she did not plan to fight him anyway.
You better re-watch that episode again because Azula preformed amazing acrobatic tricks. Amon could never do anything like that. And she was wearing heavy armor on top of that.
For physical strength check second part of Boiling Rock episode. Just look at the way she holds her body when she was almost pushed off the cabin!

And excuse me? No battle expertise? She is a 14 year old leader whose been fighting in war her whole life! She has far more battle experience than Amon!

Actually Amon doesn't really have any physical strength at all since he was using blood bending to avoid attacks.

Also in last episode he got electrocuted by Mako and Air smashed by Korra while using blood bending on them. They over powered him!
Korra is strong but she never preformed anything as impressive as Azula.
And Mako's bending is no match to Azula's.
If those 2 could over power Amon, there is no way Azula couldn't. 



> Indeed



At least we agree somewhere


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