# Official FBL - Sonic vs Darkseid



## Id (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic vs  Darkseid

 Rules and Discussion.

*Location:* Hades Realm (Saint Seiya)​
*Remember*, if you wish to use your 20 min prep. Send it to be pre-approved if not simply write ?does not want prep?.

Lets Do IT


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Prep has been submitted and awaits approval


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## Id (Jan 18, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Prep has been submitted and awaits approval



Alright, we will just wait for Sonic to submit, or deny its prep time use.


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

I've submitted my prep


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## Id (Jan 18, 2008)

Here is Sonic's prep.

*Disclaimer, * I only checked if any violations of the rules took place. Its your job, to exploit misuse or false claims in the preptime itself. 



			
				Sonic said:
			
		

> First, War Hulk puts on the Helmet of Nabu. This gives him all of the powers of the mage, Dr.Fate. Including his ability to create things from other things. (Ala Alchemy).
> 
> Second, War Hulk uses his speed force to create the Flash's suit, as he does
> 
> ...


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## Id (Jan 18, 2008)

Darkseid prep.

*Disclaimer, * I only checked if any violations of the rules took place. Its your job, to exploit misuse or false claims in the preptime itself. 



			
				Darkseid said:
			
		

> My character
> 
> Enters aegis entrohpy while also going into a state of warrior madness
> 
> Then he flys up roughly 1k feet in the air and charges a anti-force blast


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

Ah, turns out we are in Hades Realm instead of the Moon, no problem. Hades Realm has Iron on it anyway. So its the same thing. Just replace every instance of me saying the "moon" to "hades realm". Luckily it doesn't effect my plan, since my plan isn't relying on the location. Only the Iron. Hades Realm has iron luckily. (Even if it didn't, I could just create Iron, so either way.. yeah.).

As for Darkseids prep, its not even a threat. 

War Hulk flies towards Kurse and light speeds, then steals all of his speed. Then shoos him with a atom destroyer. 

The end.


In the worse cirumstance, even if the Anti-Force blast were coming at me, it wouldn't hurt me because I'm intangiable. After you use it though, if the above scenario doesn't work, then I simply control your telekenetically and destroy the armor. Then its just Kurse with the power of Thor. Quickly after that my Iron Beasts come at you at light speeds and stab you from all direction. Since Kurse's weakness is Iron, this should end the fight there.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

The anti-force is a magical blast of extreme power and only a greater power can overwhealm it (and yes it can hit anything in the same dimension... provided you have good aim (lulz)

And you iron sword does nothing to me as I am in Aegis entropy and as such and almost untouchable


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## Ax_ (Jan 18, 2008)

Damn, Sonic is so broken...

But is the item he has really allowed though?
I mean, it does raise his power to something above Heralds, doesn't it?


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> The anti-force is a magical blast of extreme power and only a greater power can overwhealm it (and yes it can hit anything in the same dimension... provided you have good aim (lulz)
> 
> And you iron sword does nothing to me as I am in Aegis entropy and as such and almost untouchable


I can simply destroy the Aegis Entropy with my atom destroyer. Or if it comes to it, I can simply use my speed force and run through the Aegis Entropy and take you out of it. (Flash has done this before, ask for scans if you want).

Have any scans of the anti-force blast? Even it comes to it, I could just either:

A.) Use my dimensional spell and send the anti-force blast to a nw dimension.
B.) Flee teleport behind you.

Either way, your Anti-Force blast will never touch me. While even in the worst of cirumstances, I could telekinetically destroy your Aegis. There really is no way for you to win. Not with the plan you have anyway. You really think you will kill me with a single attack? Especially when you are 1k in the air, thats just gives me much much more time to dodge or use my spells to counter it.


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## Orion (Jan 18, 2008)

Entropy aegis is much too powerful an item to have in this tournament...seriously.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I can simply destroy the Aegis Entropy with my atom destroyer. Or if it comes to it, I can simply use my speed force and run through the Aegis Entropy and take you out of it. (Flash has done this before, ask for scans if you want).
> 
> Have any scans of the anti-force blast? Even it comes to it, I could just either:
> 
> ...



Actually now that I think about it kurse has no problem reacting at ftl since he has blocked thor's hammer multiple times (which thor swings at 3x light)

And how strong is your TK?

My armor is strong enough to withstand a Galactus level being

And a second question how fast can you enact a dimensional spell


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

Dr. Fate is strong enough to stalemate Spectre with almost Full Backing of the Presence. TK is only a last resort, i have lots of other that can destroy the armor. Such as my atomic destroyer. Or I could just pass through your armor via Speed Force and take you out of it. Then proceed to kill you.



> Actually now that I think about it kurse has no problem reacting at ftl since he has blocked thor's hammer multiple times (which thor swings at 3x light)


Scans? Besides, I can just steal all of Aegis's speed. Leaving you at extremely slow speeds, then after that I can just carry out any of my plans to kill you. What I'd probably do is take you out of the armor. Then since you will be on the ground, I send all the Iron that is spreaded across Hades and I impale you thousands of times and I send 2 of my iron beats to hold you down then I get the third one to stab you with my Iron sword. Quickly ending your life.


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## Ax_ (Jan 18, 2008)

Quick question here, but if Fate can actually come even close to matching Spectre with close to full backing from the Presence, should the item that grants you that power really be considered something that can be used here?


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Dr. Fate is strong enough to stalemate Spectre with almost Full Backing of the Presence. TK is only a last resort, i have lots of other that can destroy the armor. Such as my atomic destroyer. Or I could just pass through your armor via Speed Force and take you out of it. Then proceed to kill you.


The fact that I can react faster then you can move means you cant touch me



> Scans? Besides, I can just steal all of Aegis's speed. Leaving you at extremely slow speeds, then after that I can just carry out any of my plans to kill you. What I'd probably do is take you out of the armor. Then since you will be on the ground, I send all the Iron that is spreaded across Hades and I impale you thousands of times and I send 2 of my iron beats to hold you down then I get the third one to stab you with my Iron sword. Quickly ending your life.



You still cant touch me


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## Power16 (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> *Dr. Fate is strong enough to stalemate Spectre with almost Full Backing of the Presence.* TK is only a last resort, i have lots of other that can destroy the armor. Such as my atomic destroyer. Or I could just pass through your armor via Speed Force and take you out of it. Then proceed to kill you.
> 
> 
> Scans? Besides, I can just steal all of Aegis's speed. Leaving you at extremely slow speeds, then after that I can just carry out any of my plans to kill you. What I'd probably do is take you out of the armor. Then since you will be on the ground, I send all the Iron that is spreaded across Hades and I impale you thousands of times and I send 2 of my iron beats to hold you down then I get the third one to stab you with my Iron sword. Quickly ending your life.



What? Did they have a fight when it was mention that Spectre was that strong.


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> The fact that I can react faster then you can move means you cant touch me


Speed Force grants me instanteous reaction speed. My reaction speed will always be higher then yours.

Also, like I said before, I can just steal your speed, making you slower then me. Then I can go through your armor and take you out of it. Then kill you using my Iron beasts and sword. (Since your characters weakness is Iron)




> Quick question here, but if Fate can actually come even close to matching Spectre with close to full backing from the Presence, should the item that grants you that power really be considered something that can be used here?





> What? Did they have a fight when it was mention that Spectre was that strong.


He fought the Spectre, I think it was with almost Full backing. I'm double-checking now.

EDIT: Yeah, it was just a "above" average Spectre. It wasn't one with Full Backing. The one with Full Backing imprisoned Dr.Fate in some kind of dimension thing. (Though Dr. Fate got out anyways)


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Speed Force grants me instanteous reaction speed. My reaction speed will always be higher then yours.



Your speed is limited to light which means that no

You cant hit me

Eve flash who wasnt limited didnt have instantaneous reaction speed.


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Your speed is limited to light which means that no
> 
> You cant hit me
> 
> Eve flash who wasnt limited didnt have instantaneous reaction speed.


Like I already said, it doesn't matter. I can just steal your speed, making yo slower them me. Also, Dr.Fate can teleport, so speed doesn't matter, I simply teleport behind you, steal all of your speed, then go through the armor and take you out of it. Then I use all of the iron thats spreaded across Hades Realm and impale you thousands of times with it.

Your entire plan just assumes I am slower then you, which I am not. 

1.) I can teleport
2.) I can steal speed
3.) Even if my speed is limited to light, my reaction time is hundreds of billions times the speed of light, which is far, far above anything you have.
4.) I can use my TK to stop your armor, or use my resistance spell which renders you immobile for a slight while, then take you out of the armor and destroy it.


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## Ax_ (Jan 18, 2008)

So, what about the beating fully-backed Spectre, then?

That can't really be called something Herald-only...


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> So, what about the beating fully-backed Spectre, then?
> 
> That can't really be called something Herald-only...


He beat an above average Spectre. The Full backed Spectre sealed him, but he got out shortly after.


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## Ax_ (Jan 18, 2008)

The Fully Backed Spectre is basically the Presence, since it has all the infinite power that the Presence can give...

How could someone get out of that, unless the other, omnipotent guy, wills it?


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Like I already said, it doesn't matter. I can just steal your speed, making yo slower them me. Also, Dr.Fate can teleport, so speed doesn't matter, I simply teleport behind you, steal all of your speed, then go through the armor and take you out of it. Then I use all of the iron thats spreaded across Hades Realm and impale you thousands of times with it.
> 
> Your entire plan just assumes I am slower then you, which I am not.
> 
> ...



1. You have to touch me to steal my speed. You cant touch me
2. Your reaction time relies on your brain. With hulk brain it isnt exactly great.
3. Your resistance spell isnt over 200 times stronger then thor (plus the fact im magic based)
4. I have yet to see this Tk you speak so highly of.


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## Id (Jan 18, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> Quick question here, but if Fate can actually come even close to matching Spectre with close to full backing from the Presence, should the item that grants you that power really be considered something that can be used here?




Every Cosmic has jobbed at one point or another. It?s logical that, a participant, will use its extremely high showings to pressure the opponent.  Like wise, you could also make a case, of the current retcons that are taking place (items not operating as powerful, as previous incarnation, or specifics) or rub in its low showings (which ironically, Helm of Fate wilders do have).

So its up to you, to distinguish the BS, from the facts.


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> 1. You have to touch me to steal my speed. You cant touch me
> 2. Your reaction time relies on your brain. With hulk brain it isnt exactly great.
> 3. Your resistance spell isnt over 200 times stronger then thor (plus the fact im magic based)
> 4. I have yet to see this Tk you speak so highly of.


1.) No I don't.
2.) No it doesn't. Speed Force gives any of its users instanteous reaction time.
3.) Dr. Fate beats Thor in magic.
4.) I have yet to say your Anti Force blast and any feats of this armor. Show me the scans. I have already told you how you will lose.

My Thunder Clap would just blow your Anti Force Blast back at you anyways. Since this is the same Thunder Clap that can block universe busting attacks.

Thor's attacks won't even   anyways.

Besides, I don't have to touch you to steal your speed. Only be 
Helmet of Nabu


> Magical Repository: The Helmet of Fate holds immense arcane power in its own right, with or without Nabu's presence. According to Black Alice, it is "the most powerful magickal[sic] artifact the world has ever known".
> 
> Sorcery: At his most potent, Doctor Fate is an accomplished sorcerer, able to match most other wizards in the Universe. He has been credited as being one of the top 12 most powerful heroes in the Universe. Kent is a powerful magician, mostly through use of his enchanted items. always used spells cast in the Eastern Way of internal balance and internal focusing as opposed to the Western Hermetic use of symbols and incantations.
> Personal Sorcery:
> ...





> How could someone get out of that, unless the other, omnipotent guy, wills it?


He wasn't trying to kill him, only seal him for a while. He used one of his spells to get out of it though.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> 1.) No I don't.
> 2.) No it doesn't. Speed Force gives any of its users instanteous reaction time.
> 3.) Dr. Fate beats Thor in magic.
> 4.) I have yet to say your Anti Force blast and any feats of this armor. Show me the scans. I have already told you how you will lose.
> ...



1.It doesnt give you instantaneous reaction speed
2. Fate doesnt beat thor by 200 times
3.
4. Aegis is pretty much just a imperiex probe without a brain. Here are some probe feats. 





If you want combat feats just ask. Im uploading some as I type this


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> 1. It doesnt give you instantaneous reaction speed doesnt give you instanous reaction speed


You show a low level feat? He says himself that his  not to mention that Nabu gives my precog, so it really doesn't matter.



> 2. Fate doesnt beat thor by 200 times


Nabu > Odin
Fate > Thor

3.) Thats it? 

4.) Thats it? Thats pathetic. I just blow it up using my Atomic Destroyer spell. I teleport behind whever you are while you are charging your anti force spell, then destroy you. If you try and attack me, then I just go behind you again and steal all of your speed and go through the armor and take Kurse out. After this I use my TK and send all the iron in the area (That I put all across Hades earlier) and impale you with them. Then you die. Not to mention, even if I were to get hit by the explosion, it wouldn't do anything to me since I'm intangiable, and even if it somehow did, Speed Force would let the explosion pass through me, and if it somehow breached that as well, I would just regenerate.

I can also just banish you to Hell. You still haven't shown how you would beat me.

Not that it matters, since I would just use Thunderclap to send the Anti-Force blast back at you.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> You show a low level feat? He says himself that his  not to mention that Nabu gives my precog, so it really doesn't matter.


You call my feat low level then you try to counter with him bragging while playing video games... wow

precog could be a bit of a porblem



> Nabu > Odin
> Fate > Thor


Most fates < Thor
Only 3-4 > thor

And nabu still isnt 200 stronger then thor so i dont see how this matters

And if nabu > odin then you are disqaulified for brekaing the rules (which you just admitted to doing)


> 3.) Thats it?


Do you even know who mangog is?



> 4.) Thats it? Thats pathetic. I just blow it up using my Atomic Destroyer spell. I teleport behind whever you are while you are charging your anti force spell, then destroy you. If you try and attack me, then I just go behind you again and steal all of your speed and go through the armor and take Kurse out. After this I use my TK and send all the iron in the area (That I put all across Hades earlier) and impale you with them. Then you die.
> 
> Not that it matters, since I would just use Thunderclap to send the Anti-Force blast back at you.


1. You haven shown anything that can destory me
2. I already charged the anti force in my prep
3. I dont see you going thru my armor when the real flash couldnt
4. Still havent seen this Tk you bragging about.
5. the anti-force can be delivered by touch


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> You call my feat low level then you try to counter with him bragging while playing video games... wow
> 
> precog could be a bit of a porblem


You think The Flash's reaction time isn't near instanteous? Wow... In that other scan you showed, The Flash was distracted.



> Most fates < Thor
> Only 3-4 > thor
> 
> And nabu still isnt 200 stronger then thor so i dont see how this matters
> ...


How am I breaking the rules? Odin powers Thor just like Nabu powers Dr. Fate, though to a much lesser extent then Odin and Thor since Odin gave all of his power to Thor, whereas, Fate only has a small amount of Nabu's power, ever since he died.



> And nabu still isnt 200 stronger then thor so i dont see how this matters


When did I ever say that?



> 1. You haven shown anything that can destory me
> 2. I already charged the anti force in my prep
> 3. I dont see you going thru my armor when the really flash couldnt
> 4. Still havent seen this Tk you bragging about.
> 5. the anti-force can be delivered by touch


1.) Are you kidding? This, or this, or , or this, they will all completely oblierate every essence of your Kurse and his little toy.



> 3. I dont see you going thru my armor when the really flash couldnt


Flash can either go through you and take Kurse out of the armor. Or I could go through the armor (Since I'm already intangiable) and take you out, or use a mind control spell and put an influence on Kurse, leaving him open to attack.



> 4. Still havent seen this Tk you bragging about.


I'm not going to reveal my hand since I haven't even seen this "Anti-Force".


> 5. the anti-force can be delivered by touch


 If that other scan was it, then its pathetic. Since, the Hulk can survive..



But even that is unneeded since I'm intangiable and it wouldn't hurt me anyways.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> You think The Flash's reaction time isn't near instanteous? Wow... In that other scan you showed, The Flash was distracted.


With "instantaneous reaction time" it shouldnt matter



> How am I breaking the rules? Odin powers Thor just like Nabu powers Dr. Fate, though to a much lesser extent then Odin and Thor since Odin gave all of his power to Thor, whereas, Fate only has a small amount of Nabu's power, ever since he died.



I am only using thor's power. You are being powered by a seperate entity altogether. you even admitted the helmet has sentience. 



> When did I ever say that?


Im sayin it.



> 1.) Are you kidding? This, or this, or , or this, they will all completely oblierate every essence of your Kurse and his little toy.



 [URL='http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/Gecko4lif/B17-All-OutWar-SupermanManofStee-1.jpg"]it wont[/URL]



> Flash can either go through you and take Kurse out of the armor. Or I could go through the armor (Since I'm already intangiable) and take you out, or use a mind control spell and put an influence on Kurse, leaving him open to attack.


Flash couldnt

And intangible or not my magic will find you.

I dont see You overcoming Kurse mind since it is part of his heritage that he can see thur mind control and illusions



> I'm not going to reveal my hand since I haven't even seen this "Anti-Force".


I\Oh I have much mre in store for you. But You havent provided ANY proof AT ALL of your tk.



> If that other scan was it, then its pathetic. Since, the Hulk can survive..


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> With "instantaneous reaction time" it shouldnt matter


Instanteous reaction time is only his best showing, that wasn't his best showing, obviously.



> I am only using thor's power. You are being powered by a seperate entity altogether. you even admitted the helmet has sentience.


Thor's power is Odin's power. I'm not being powered by a seperate entity, Nabu is already dead. When Nabu was alive, he would possess the wearer of the helmet, but he isn't, so its only Dr. Fates' power.



> Safe to say it wont


Except since I'm intangiable I would go through the shields. Not to mention that your scan doesn't prove how I couldn't mind control him, or use my atomic destroyer, or erase his existence. Or send him 1000 years into the future.



> Flash couldnt
> 
> And intangible or not my magic will find you.
> 
> I dont see You overcoming Kurse mind since it is part of his heritage that he can see thur mind control and illusions


No limits fallacy. Fate can stalemate with the Spectre, who is much, much stronger then Kurse. So Fate's mind control would work on Fate. Unless you got a scan.



> I\Oh I have much mre in store for you. But You havent provided ANY proof AT ALL of your tk


Again, I'm not going to reveal my TK until you prove that Anti Force will even hurt me to begin with. I'm intangiable, Speed Force makes me intangiable, and I would just dodge the attack anyways.



> Your comparing a bomb to the magic of a god.... The same magic that 1 shot a dude who tanks planet destroyers...
> 
> And that scan is a alternate earth it isnt even 616 cannon.
> 
> And In marvel magic is affected by intangibility it follows different rules then in Dc


So? Hulk can thunderclap and block a attack that could destroy a universe. I have more scans of Hulk tanking nukes and other magic. 



> And In marvel magic is affected by intangibility it follows different rules then in Dc


Gasping at straws are we? Why wouldn't Dr Fates, or The Flash's intangiability not work with Marvel Magic? Just face it, none of your attacks will even hurt me. While I can mind control you, take you out of the armor, and etc.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Instanteous reaction time is only his best showing, that wasn't his best showing, obviously.


Oh so he is only that fast when playing video games huh 



> Thor's power is Odin's power. I'm not being powered by a seperate entity, Nabu is already dead. When Nabu was alive, he would possess the wearer of the helmet, but he isn't, so its only Dr. Fates' power.


Thor's power isnt odin's power. Odin force is odins power. 
And you seem to not be able to distinguish DF's power from the HoN's power



> Except since I'm intangiable I would go through the shields. Not to mention that your scan doesn't prove how I couldn't mind control him, or use my atomic destroyer, or erase his existence. Or send him 1000 years into the future.


1. No you really wouldn't.
2. Dark elves cant be mind controlled
3. The omega beams own anything you have.
4. Dark elves stop aging once they reach maturity and as such are immortal



> No limits fallacy. Fate can stalemate with the Spectre, who is much, much stronger then Kurse. So Fate's mind control would work on Fate. Unless you got a scan.


No limits fallacy my ass. That is like me saying kryptonians are strengthened by yellow sunlight and you saying throw them into a sun.

And yet again you are bring up reason you should be disqaulified



> Again, I'm not going to reveal my TK until you prove that Anti Force will even hurt me to begin with. I'm intangiable, Speed Force makes me intangiable, and I would just dodge the attack anyways.


If you want to get close to me it is going to hit you.
And I just show a scan of it wiping out a world buster tanker.
Also you can only become intagible with the speed force by going faster then light... and guess what's not allowed....



> So? Hulk can thunderclap and block a attack that could destroy a universe. I have more scans of Hulk tanking nukes and other magic.


Id said no PIS in this tournement. And it is sad your trying to validate your claims with idiocy.

And nuke dont mean shit. And unless you have some seourus high level magic to show i suggest you keep your scans.


> Gasping at straws are we? Why wouldn't Dr Fates, or The Flash's intangiability not work with Marvel Magic? Just face it, none of your attacks will even hurt me. While I can mind control you, take you out of the armor, and etc.



Already refuted.


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> Oh so he is only that fast when playing video games huh


*sigh*



> 1. No you really wouldn't.
> 2. Dark elves cant be mind controlled
> 3. The omega beams own anything you have.
> 4. Dark elves stop aging once they reach maturity and as such are immortal


1.) Scans
2.) Scans
3.) Intangability/Dodge
4.) Then you are disqualified automatically.



> No limits fallacy my ass. That is like me saying kryptonians are strengthened by yellow sunlight and you saying throw them into a sun.
> 
> And yet again you are bring up reason you should be disqaulified


You really are gasping at straws. The Spectre's power varyings dramatically. Unless I said he has 100% Presence backing, then Spectre isn't something that would disqualify me.



> Id said no PIs in thie tournement
> 
> And nuke dont mean shit. And unless you have some seourus high level magic to show i suggest you keep your scans.


What does this have to do with PIS? The Hulk thunderclapped a universe busting attack. Your magic has nothing on that. Not to mention that your antiforce wouldn't even hurt me because I'm intangiable (unless you have scans that show that anti-force can hurt untangiables).



> Already refuted.


No.


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## HollowDemon (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> You show a low level feat? He says himself that his  not to mention that Nabu gives my precog, so it really doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> Nabu > Odin
> ...



You post hyperbole as a feat? Wow...this could end up bad for you brother


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

HollowDemon said:


> You post hyperbole as a feat? Wow...this could end up bad for you brother


Its not hyperbole.




The Flash saves over 500,000 thousand people in a .0001 of a microsecond. This alone puts his reaction speed over 400 billion times the speed of light. Fact is, my reaction speed is so high, it might as well be instanteous.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> 1.) Scans
> 2.) Scans
> 3.) Intangability/Dodge
> 4.) Then you are disqualified automatically.


1- The Oe beams are intagible
2- looking
3- *buzzer* wrong
4- Nothing in the rules about people who dont age



> You really are gasping at straws. The Spectre's power varyings dramatically. Unless I said he has 100% Presence backing, then Spectre isn't something that would disqualify me.


No im saying facts

And post the scans of you drawing the spectere so that we may ascertain his level of backing



> What does this have to do with PIS? The Hulk thunderclapped a universe busting attack. Your magic has nothing on that. Not to mention that your antiforce wouldn't even hurt me because I'm intangiable (unless you have scans that show that anti-force can hurt untangiables).


Hulk's thunderclap = PIS
Considering most of his thunderclaps barely bust streets
I have more then that at my disposal

I also have the God Blast

And magic can touch intangibility






> No.


Yes



Sonic said:


> Its not hyperbole.


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## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> 1- The Oe beams are intagible
> 2- looking
> 3- *buzzer* wrong
> 4- Nothing in the rules about people who dont age


1.) Scans? Besides, even if they are, they still wouldn't touch me.
2.) Ok.
3.) Nope.
4.) You said they were immortal.



> No im saying facts
> 
> And post the scans of you drawing the spectere so that we may ascertain his level of backing


One and 



> Hulk's thunderclap = PIS
> Considering most of his thunderclaps barely bust streets
> I have more then that at my disposal


So? What happened happened.



> One.
> I didn't say magic, I said the anti-force and godblast since you mentioned it. Besides, touching entheral beings isn't the same as touching people who can fly to the astral plane, turn themselves invisible and absorbs enemie's thoughts.
> 
> 
> ...



Since when could Thor do Godblast without his hammer anyways?


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## Vance (Jan 18, 2008)

_Great match so far. I'll be submitting a vote tonight._


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> 1.) Scans? Besides, even if they are, they still wouldn't touch me.
> 2.) Ok.
> 3.) Nope.
> 4.) You said they were immortal.


1. LMFAO you dont know crap about darkseid do you?
2. -
3. *buzzes again*
4. Read my Exact words 



> One and


First one is eve longoria and the second doesnt work



> So? What happened happened.


So you admit it was PIS



> I didn't say magic, I said the anti-force and godblast since you mentioned it. Besides, touching entheral beings isn't the same as touching people who can fly to the astral plane, turn themselves invisible and absorbs enemie's thoughts.


Guess what the anti-force and godblast are... ( they are magic arent they )

And yes.. it is exactly the same thing



> Show me scans of the anti-force blasting someone who turned intangiable. (Not just some ghost) and godblast too. Not that it would matter since I would just dodge it.


If you want to steal my speed you aren't dodging shit.

And show me a scan of nabu beating a guy in magical armor that can withstand the OE? (getting specific is a bitch isnt it)



> Since when could Thor do Godblast without his hammer anyways?


Since I ran it past ID and he approved it


----------



## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> 1. LMFAO you dont know crap about darkseid do you?
> 2. -
> 3. *buzzes again*
> 4. Read my Exact words


1.) I know that Dr. Fate  his 

3.) I love how you never show scans, just spit out BS with no proof.
4.) I did



> First one is eve longoria and the second doesnt work


Works for me.



> Guess what the anti-force and goblast are... ( they are magic arent they )
> 
> And yes.. it is exactly the same thing


No they aren't. Just show some scans of them hitting someone intangiable. Its so simple. I'm showing scans, so why don't you. All magic isn't equal.



> If you want to steal my speed you aren't dodging shit.
> 
> And show me a scan of nabu beating a guy in magical armor that can withstand the OE? (getting specific is a bitch isnt it)


What are you talking about? Why would I have to prove that? What does this have to do with anything? I can use my Atom Destroyer to destroy the armor. Or mind control you (Show scans that Kurse is immune to all Mind control). And as for the speed thing, have you even looked at the scans I showed you? Flash doesn't have to touch you to steal your speed, not to mention that he has a reaction speed of over bllions times of light. And Anti-Force isn't that strong anyways.





> Since I ran it past ID and he approved it


What? Thats not really far. No matter though.


> > First one is eve longoria and the second doesnt work



I'm amazed at the amount of BS you are spewing without any evidence or scans to back it up. As far as I'm concerned everything you have said has been made up since you have no proof.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> 1.) I know that Dr. Fate  his
> 
> 3.) I love how you never show scans, just spit out BS with no proof.
> 4.) I do.


1- 
3-Darkseid respect thread. Live it. Love it.
4- OH... so you just have problem comprehending english



> Works for me.


The hell? Re post them maybe you copied it wrong.



> No they aren't. Just show some scans of them hitting someone intangiable. Its so simple. I'm showing scans, so why don't you. All magic isn't equal.


It is called the Darkseid respect thread. I suggest you go visit it.



> What are you talking about? Why would I have to prove that? What does this have to do with anything? I can use my Atom Destroyer to destroy the armor. Or mind control you (Show scans that Kurse is immune to all Mind control). And as for the speed thing, have you even looked at the scans I showed you? Flash doesn't have to touch you to steal your speed, not to mention that he has a reaction speed of over bllions times of light. And Anti-Force isn't that strong anyways.


1. Flash had to be close. Really close. I doubt he could stick out his elbow and not touch the boomerangs
2. The OE couldn't destroy the armor and it is one of the most powerful things in the entire Dc verse. It is a indirect link to the source.
3. Reaction speed =/= speedforce
4. Dude did you even look at the scan?


> What? Thats not really far. No matter though.


Like you should be talking about fair. 



> I'm amazed at the amount of BS you are spewing with any evidence or scans to back it up. As far as I'm concerned everyone you have said has been made up since you have no proof.


The hell are you talking about?


----------



## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> 1- You were saying?
> 3-Darkseid respect thread. Live it. Love it.
> 4- OH... so you just have problem comprehending english


1.) How about  you show the next couple pages
3.) Doctor Fate Respect thread. Live it. Love it.
4.) Personal insults? To believe you dropped this low.



> It is called the Darkseid respect thread. I suggest you go visit it.


Except Darkseid isn't in this battle.



> 1. Flash had to be close. Really close. I doubt he could stick out his elbow and not touch the boomerangs
> 2. The OE couldn't destroy the armor and it is one of the most powerful things in the entire Dc verse. It is a indirect link to the source.
> 3. Reaction speed =/= speedforce
> 4. Dude did you even look at the scan?


1.) Like I said, he just has to be near, he doesn't actually have to touch it
2.) If its that strong then it shouldn't be allowed in this tournment... meaning you are disqualified.
3.) Uhm, what? Speed Force boasts your Reaction time significantly.
4.) Yes, did you?



> Like you should be talking about fair.


Uhm, you can't use Godblast without the Hammer and Id let you.



> The hell are you talking about?


All of these "feats" you are saying with scans or proof.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> 1.) How about  you show the next couple pages
> 3.) Doctor Fate Respect thread. Live it. Love it.
> 4.) Personal insults? To believe you dropped this low.


1. What Fate getting sent to hell?
3. BOO!  Make your own up 
4. Personal insults? Why i'd never  . Im simply trying to understand why you cant see whats in front of you.



> Except Darkseid isn't in this battle.


Except feats directly associated with him are.



> 1.) Like I said, he just has to be near, he doesn't actually have to touch it
> 2.) If its that strong then it shouldn't be allowed in this tournment... meaning you are disqualified.
> 3.) Uhm, what? Speed Force boasts your Reaction time significantly.
> 4.) Yes, did you?


1. You tried to act like he could be a safe distance away (which he cant)
2. It is quite durable. But that is the entire point of armor. It isnt indestructible thou seeing as to how su... ill just let you read OWAW
3. Your not understanding what im saying. He was IN the speedforce. That feat mean absolutely zero here.
4. Yes. I wouldnt have posted it if i didnt.



> Uhm, you can't use Godblast without the Hammer and Id let you.


And you arent supposed to be using above heralds.



> All of these "feats" you are saying with scans or proof.


Before i laugh at you im gonna let you edit you post.


----------



## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> 1. What Fate getting sent to hell?


And coming back?


> 3. BOO!  Make your own up


Google is your friend.


> 4. Personal insults? Why i'd never  . Im simply trying to understand why you cant see whats in front of you.


Well, I'm insulted.



> 1. You tried to act like he could be a safe distance away (which he cant)


Well I never said that. Again, Flash will just go through the armor and take out Kurse and throw him to the ground with the armor.



> 2. It is quite durable. But that is the entire point of armor. It isnt indestructible thou seeing as to how su... ill just let you read OWAW


Its your responsibility to post feats. Not mine to find them.



> 3. Your not understanding what im saying. He was IN the speedforce. That feat mean absolutely zero here.


Id already said that the universe is neutral to the Speed Force works...



> And you arent supposed to be using above heralds.


Except I'm not, unless you have some proof? My Character couldn't beat the more powerful hearlds. Since you said it, I'll be looking foward to your proof. Unless its more mindless BS.



> 4. Yes. I wouldnt have posted it if i didnt.


Well then you know.



> Before i laugh at you im gonna let you edit you post.


Pathetic. Where is the proof that the armor is faster then The Flash? Where is the proof that Kurse has a faster reaction time? Where is the proof that Anti-Force and Omega Beam can go through Dr.Fate/The Flash. Where is the proof that its too fast for me to dodge?


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> And coming back?


Eventually



> Google is your friend.


I prefer dogpile



> Well, I'm insulted.


Poor baby ... want I lolipop? I heard they make you happy when you wearing a frown. 



> Well I never said that. Again, Flash will just go through the armor and take out Kurse and throw him to the ground with the armor.


Flash couldnt go thru it when he fought it so i dont see how you can



> Its your responsibility to post feats. Not mine to find them.


But im lazy 



> Id already said that the universe is neutral to the Speed Force works...


But YOU cant go into the speedforce because you have to be going ftl which isnt allowed



> Except I'm not, unless you have some proof? My Character couldn't beat the more powerful hearlds. Since you said it, I'll be looking foward to your proof. Unless its more mindless BS.


Link removed
Link removed

Not a herald level feat



> Well then you know.


Know what?



> Pathetic. Where is the proof that the armor is faster then The Flash? Where is the proof that Kurse has a faster reaction time? Where is the proof that Anti-Force and Omega Beam can go through Dr.Fate/The Flash. Where is the proof that its too fast for me to dodge?


Listen closly kids because im only exsplaining this once

1. I never said the armor was faster then the flash. I said kurse has a faster reaction time then you.
2. The omegas have already gone through flash (i dont know about fate ill have to check on that)
3. I never said they were to fast for you to dodge. I said it was to fast for you to dodge if you wanted to steal my speed.


----------



## atom (Jan 18, 2008)

> Eventually


Well he already did..



> I prefer dogpile


Ok?



> Poor baby ... want I lolipop? I heard they make you happy when you wearing a frown.


...



> Flash couldnt go thru it when he fought it so i dont see how you can


Scans.



> But im lazy


Too bad.



> ^_________________________^
> 
> ^_________________________^
> 
> Not a herald level feat


Pictures are too small to see.



> Listen closly kids because im only exsplaining this once
> 
> 1. I never said the armor was faster then the flash. I said kurse has a faster reaction time then you.
> 2. The omegas have already gone through flash (i dont know about fate ill have to check on that)
> 3. I never said they were to fast for you to dodge. I said it was to fast for you to dodge if you wanted to steal my speed.


1.) Scans
2.) Scans
3.) That doesn't make any sense...


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 18, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Well he already did..


Well this was years ago...



> Scans.








> Too bad.






> Pictures are too small to see.


? They are fine on mine.



> 1.) Scans
> 2.) Scans
> 3.) That doesn't make any sense...


1. 
2. Wait
3. Yes it does


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> ? They are fine on mine.



 Look at the links you gave again. Those are the links to the thumbnails and not the actual picture. Remove the _.th_ then it should work.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> MSNBC
> MSNBC
> MSNBC


Except The Flash didn't go intangiable. So your point is moot. Of course he couldn't go through it if he's not intangiable.



> 1. Kurse bitchslapping mjolnir out the air from point blank


That doesn't prove that Kurse has a faster reaction time then The Flash. Kurse doesn't have a better feat then saving over 500,000 people in .00001 of a microsecond.



> But YOU cant go into the speedforce because you have to be going ftl which isnt allowed


Yes I can. The Flash wasn't going FTL in that other scan. He was approaching near-light speeds as it said in the scan.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Except The Flash didn't go intangiable. So your point is moot. Of course he couldn't go through it if he's not intangiable.


The probe almost killed flash

Your telling me that while getting his ass beat he never tried to go intagible


Look at his hand. He is being grabbed. I dont know about you but my first thought would be get this big bitch off me.



> That doesn't prove that Kurse has a faster reaction time then The Flash. Kurse doesn't have a better feat then saving over 500,000 people in .00001 of a microsecond.


ARE YOU A IDIOT!?
1. Your not the flash and dont have better reaction time then the flash
2. That feat is not reaction time




> Yes I can. The Flash wasn't going FTL in that other scan. He was approaching near-light speeds as it said in the scan.



We have already prove that the writer never bothered to do the math in the Meta dome

Flash was going hundreds of thousands of time the speed of light


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> The probe almost killed flash
> 
> Your telling me that while getting his ass beat he never tried to go intagible
> MSNBC
> ...



There is no proof that he tried to go intangiable, so he didn't. Don't make silly assumptions.


> ARE YOU A IDIOT!?
> 
> 1. Your not the flash and dont have better reaction time then the flash
> 2. That feat is not reaction time


Insulting again *sigh*. How is getting 500,000 people at 2 people a time not a reaction time feat? It doesn't matter if I'm not the Flash, my power is Speed Force. I was going to pick The Flash as my character, but I had to pick Speed Force as my power. I can use feats from anyone who uses the Speed Force




> We have already prove that the writer never bothered to do the math in the Meta dome
> 
> Flash was going hundreds of thousands of time the speed of light


Non-canon calculations are irrelevant. He wasn't going FTL and thats that.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> There is no proof that he tried to go intangiable, so he didn't. Don't make silly assumptions.


It is one of his top used moves
just looking at his character history should tell you mre more then likely tried and felt (then got beat to near death)



> Insulting again *sigh*. How is getting 500,000 people at 2 people a time not a reaction time feat? It doesn't matter if I'm not the Flash, my power is Speed Force. I was going to pick The Flash as my character, but I had to pick Speed Force as my power. I can use feats from anyone who uses the Speed Force



No you actually cant.
And he said SOME were 2 at a time.



> Non-canon calculations are irrelevant. He wasn't going FTL and thats that.


Your just embarrassing yourself now


----------



## Vance (Jan 19, 2008)

_I'm placing a vote for *Sonic.*

His prep time makes him character extremely powerful, and his strategy is much more likely to happen.

Darkseid make a good debate, but it still doesn't change the fact that Sonic's character can beat his evil with or without a planet around._


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

I vote for Darkseid. Pretty much all speedforce feats need you to move at ftl speed which is not available for this tournament. And Dr. Fate's feats don't impress me all that much either.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> I vote for Darkseid. Pretty much all speedforce feats need you to move at ftl speed which is not available for this tournament. And Dr. Fate's feats don't impress me all that much either.


Did you not see that other scan? He could use the Speedforce and save over 500k people without going FTL. Dr. Fate can match The Spectre, thats well above anything Kurse can do.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> It is one of his top used moves
> just looking at his character history should tell you mre more then likely tried and felt (then got beat to near death)


Again, dumb assumptions. There is no proof that he tried to go intangiable at that moment.



> No you actually cant.
> And he said SOME were 2 at a time.


How is reacting to a Nuclear bomb within a .00001 of a microsecond not a reaction feat? You are just being ignorant now.



> Your just embarrassing yourself now


The only one who is embarrasing themselves is you. Why would I take non-canon calculations into account? Thats absurd. Who cares about calculations that are not canon. The scan says that he was APPROACHING near Light Speeds. Meaning he wasn't even going FTL.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Did you not see that other scan? He could use the Speedforce and save over 500k people without going FTL.



Sorry, but I don't care what the scan says. That feat _needs_ faster than light speed otherwise it's completely impossible. At just lightspeed he'd only be able to move a distance of 185 miles in 0.001 seconds.

Otherwise it would be PIS and doesn't count for this tournament.



> Dr. Fate can match The Spectre, thats well above anything Kurse can do.



The Spectre can be a chump depending on how much backing he has.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Again, dumb assumptions. There is no proof that he tried to go intangiable at that moment.
> 
> 
> How is reacting to a Nuclear bomb within a .00001 of a microsecond not a reaction feat? You are just being ignorant now.
> ...





There is your master debator folks


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Sorry, but I don't care what the scan says. That feat needs faster than light speed otherwise it's completely impossible. At just lightspeed he'd only be able to move a distance of 185 miles in 0.001 seconds.
> 
> Otherwise it would be PIS and doesn't count for this tournament.


So basically, you are being ignorant of the truth? What the scan says is what goes. Are you really talking of things that are "impossible". Its fiction, nothing is impossible. Comics defeat all general logic. Going light speed is "impossible" too.



> The Spectre can be a chump depending on how much backing he has.


Indeed.


I'm still waiting for Darkseid to say how he will even hurt me since I'm intangiable. Since he's 1k in the air, I could easily dodge the Anti-Force anyways. Or if it did hit me, I'd just regenerate. (But it wouldn't hit me since I'm intangiable and I can dodge it).



> There is your master debator folks


Concession accepted.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> So basically, you are being ignorant of the truth? What the scan says is what goes. Are you really talking of things that are "impossible". Its fiction, nothing is impossible. Comics defeat all general logic. Going light speed is "impossible" too.
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> ...


I didnt concede im mocking you.

Your powers of observation amuse me 

I cant even take you serous anymore


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> I didnt concede im mocking you.
> 
> Your powers of observation amuse me
> 
> I cant even take you serous anymore


Again, Concession accepted.

While you are at it, how will any of your attacks even hurt me since I'm intangiable?


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> So basically, you are being ignorant of the truth? What the scan says is what goes. Are you really talking of things that are "impossible". Its fiction, nothing is impossible. Comics defeat all general logic. Going light speed is "impossible" too.



And I accidentally even forgot a zero. It would be only 18 miles. Meaning he couldn't even make one trip to that island in 0.00001 seconds. We got time, we got distance, we got a speed figure (lightspeed).

Taking all that into account... That whole feat is PIS.




> I'm still waiting for Darkseid to say how he will even hurt me since I'm intangiable. Since he's 1k in the air, I could easily dodge the Anti-Force anyways. Or if it did hit me, I'd just regenerate. (But it wouldn't hit me since I'm intangiable and I can dodge it).



Oh? It depends. If you mean Flash intangibility (which I'm quite sure takes FTL speed as well but feel free to correct me) then that only means your molecules are disconnencted. A sufficiently dense energy blast would still hit you.

If it's Fate intangibilty, then prove that he can go intangiable (I don't remember it) and that he can interact with material beings while in that state.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Oh? It depends. If you mean Flash intangibility (which I'm quite sure takes FTL speed as well but feel free to correct me) than that only means your molecules are disconnencted. A sufficiently dense energy blast would still hit you.





> And I accidentally even forgot a zero. It would be only 18 miles. Meaning he couldn't even make one trip to that island in 0.00001 seconds. We got time, we got distance, we got a speed figure (lightspeed).
> 
> Taking all that into account... That whole feat is PIS.


No it isn't. Besides, I only used that scan to show that The Flash could react to a nuke in .00001 microseconds.

Thats very true, and I've only taken that into account, hence why I'm not relying on Flash's lesser intangability techinque.



> If it's Fate intangibilty, then prove that he can go intangiable (I don't remember it) and that he can interact with material beings.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

doesnt show him interacting with his enviorment


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> No it isn't. Besides, I only used that scan to show that The Flash could react to a nuke in .00001 microseconds.



But what you are missing is that this tournament is capped at lightspeed. Meaning even reaction time is capped, since it would be speed as well. At best you are equal with DS. 

Kurse reacted to Thor's FTL hammer, Speedforce users can react to FTL whatever.

Tournament is capped.

Both of you can react at lightspeed at best. You are equal in that department now thanks to the tournament limit.



> Thats very true, and I've only taken that into account, hence why I'm not relying on Flash's lesser intangability techinque.



Okay.



Now... can he still touch stuff while in that state?


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> doesnt show him interacting with his enviorment


I don't need to, I just need to get inside of the suit and just become tangiable again, then use my atomic destroyer to destroy you while you are in the armor.

But if you really want a scan of him reacting with the environment while intangiable, then I'll find a scan.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I don't need to, I just need to get inside of the suit and just become tangiable again, then use my atomic destroyer to destroy you while you are in the armor.
> 
> But if you really want a scan of him reacting with the environment while intangiable, then I'll find a scan.



You cant fit inside my armor with kurse inside... Kurse can barely fit inside.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> But what you are missing is that this tournament is capped at lightspeed. Meaning even reaction time is capped, since it would be speed as well. At best you are equal with DS.
> 
> Kurse reacted to Thor's FTL hammer, Speedforce users can react to FTL whatever.
> 
> ...


Ok, if reaction time is capped is well, thats just another advantage for me. 



> Now... can he still touch stuff while in that state?


Yes, I'm finding the scan.



> You cant fit inside my armor with kurse inside... Kurse can barely fit inside.


Dr. Fate can use a shapeshifting spell to change his size. I can also just get near you and just use my atomic destroyer to destroy you and your suit while still being intangiable.

Or I can call upon the Gods and they will "oblierate every essence" of you.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid has my vote here...


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> Darkseid has my vote here...


Why? Are you just voting for him just because. Or did he actually convince you that he will win? Since I'm intangiable, there is no way that he will hurt me during this entire battle. (See my prep time).


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Dr. Fate can use a shapeshifting spell to change his size. I can also just get near you and just use my atomic destroyer to destroy you and your suit while still being intangiable.
> 
> Or I can call upon the Gods and they will "oblierate every essence" of you.



Hmmm... have you posted scans of the atomic destroyer already? Who did it affect before?


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Dr. Fate can use a shapeshifting spell to change his size. I can also just get near you and just use my atomic destroyer to destroy you and your suit while still being intangiable.
> 
> Or I can call upon the Gods and they will "oblierate every essence" of you.




Here is how i see it going

*Hulk shape shifts*
*hulk gets inside my armor* (which isnt happening but for the sake of debate fate can do what darkseid couldn't)
*Hulk tries to summon his atom destroyer but cant because of the space requirement* (assuming the atom destroy can actually hurt kurse when fate himself said the up limits were trees and hulk somehow doesnt touch curse and get anti-forced)
*kurse flys toward the ground crushing hulk and the helmet of nabu in the armor and even if they somehow arent crushed they would be touching kurse from the inertia and get anti-forced*

I win


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Hmmm... have you posted scans of the atomic destroyer already? Who did it affect before?


Yes, I'll post them again. It destroys every atom of the target. (assuming it doesn't miss anyways).

Also, here is the scan that he can touch things while intangiable.

I can also ressemble the armor's atoms rendering it useless




> *Hulk shape shifts*
> *hulk gets inside my armor* (which isnt happening but for the sake of debate fate can do what darkseid couldn't)
> *Hulk tries to summon his atom destroyer but cant because of the space requirement* (assuming the atom destroy can actually hurt kurse when fate himself said the up limits were trees and hulk somehow doesnt touch curse and get anti-forced)
> *kurse flys toward the ground crushing hulk and the helmet of nabu in the armor and even if they somehow arent crushed they would be touching kurse from the inertia and get anti-forced*


Fate never said that upper limits were Trees, he just used that as an example. The Helmet of Nabu is indestructiable. Since its a cosmic item and all. Besides, I already posted scans that I can touch things while intangiable.


----------



## Vance (Jan 19, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> Darkseid has my vote here...



_You could at least explain._


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Yes, I'll post them again. It destroys every atom of the target. (assuming it doesn't miss anyways).
> 
> Also, here is the scan that he can touch things while intangiable.
> 
> I can also ressemble the armor's atoms rendering it useless



Ahh... now I remember! Those were the links that didn't work for me. I always have problems with theimagehosting.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Vance said:


> _You could at least explain._


With vague posts like that, I have a strange feeling in my gut that Darkseid may be bribing people to vote for him since he said that he was going to PM you to convince you to change your vote.

Though, this is just a feeling, no proof or anything.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Also, here is the scan that he can touch things while intangiable.



he isnt intagible when he punches the dude

He enters intangible
Everybody stops
He becomes tangible and punches him


----------



## Vance (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> With vague posts like that, I have a strange feeling in my gut that Darkseid may be bribing people to vote for him since he said that he was going to PM you to convince you to change your vote.
> 
> Though, this is just a feeling, no proof or anything.



_He voted against me in my match once I voted for you, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But I won't say more. Your character is definately one of the top tiers in this tourney_


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Ahh... now I remember! Those were the links that didn't work for me. I always have problems with theimagehosting.


Just for sake of debate. Why did you vote for Darkseid again? Please tell me so I can refute any reasons you may have to vote for him. Since Darkseid keeps on ignoring my requests for scans.



> he isnt intagible when he punches the dude
> 
> He enters intangible
> Everybody stops
> He becomes tangible and punches him


No, he was still intangiable. Unlike the other scan where the intangability was just that, he was in Astral Form in that scan. He was like the entire time.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Vance said:


> _He voted against me in my match once I voted for you, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But I won't say more. Your character is definately one of the top tiers in this tourney_



I voted against you because muggle is one of the top debators in the dome

It did kinda fall apart near the end thou.


----------



## Vance (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> I voted against you because muggle is one of the top debators in the dome
> 
> It did kinda fall apart near the end thou.



_So you voted for EM because you respect EvilMoogle?_


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Vance said:


> _So you voted for EM because you respect EvilMoogle?_



No

I just think he out debated you.

Weather his character would really win thou.. im on the fence



Sonic said:


> No, he was still intangiable. Unlike the other scan where the intangability was just that, he was in Astral Form in that scan. He was like the entire time.



No he wasnt

EVERY person who can go intangible does it when they fight

They go intangible defensively and become tangible when on the offensive


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> No he wasnt
> 
> EVERY person who can go intangible does it when they fight
> 
> They go intangible defensively and become tangible when on the offensive


Except though the effect gave him "intangability" he was in astral form. Unless you have proof suggesting otherwise. In that otherscan where he really did go "intangiable" you are probably right.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Except though the effect gave him "intangability" he was in astral form. Unless you have proof suggesting otherwise. In that otherscan where he really did go "intangiable" you are probably right.



You realize that what you said made absolutly 0 difference dont you?

or are you just trying to raise your post count?


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Just for sake of debate. Why did you vote for Darkseid again? Please tell me so I can refute any reasons you may have to vote for him. Since Darkseid keeps on ignoring my requests for scans.



1. Your speed stealing advange is nearly nill. You have to get close to someone who can throw around massive AoE blasts, powerful enough to even hurt Superman. Making your Hulk durability more than a moot point as well.

2. Intangibility is mighty helpful for that, but does it really work against cosmic energy blasts?

3. I'm always wary with mage characters like Fate and Strange because their powers fluctuate a lot. I mean, you showed him beating around Darkseid, which clearly puts him above herald level...


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

1.)The way I prepared my prep makes it impossible for him to win. I steal every essence of his speed, and since I'm intangiable (Stated in my prep), there is no thing he can do to stop me.

2.) Until he shows scans that his blasts can effect me if I go Astral or Intangiable, I'm just going to assume that they won't.

3.) That Darkseid was weakened. Though its still a good feat.

I can also plant my suggestion spell (Long range spell) and make him get out of his suit. Leaving him open to any of my attacks. Or make him kill himself.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> With vague posts like that, I have a strange feeling in my gut that Darkseid may be bribing people to vote for him since he said that he was going to PM you to convince you to change your vote.
> 
> Though, this is just a feeling, no proof or anything.



Actually, he hasn't said anything like that to me.
Its just that I think he sounds more polite when he is stating his points, in general, at least at the start of this thread.

That is, according to me, a sign of a better debater.

One who can remain cool, at least at the start, without resorting to attacks somewhere else, or things like that...


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> 1.)The way I prepared my prep makes it impossible for him to win. I steal every essence of his speed, and since I'm intangiable (Stated in my prep), there is no thing he can do to stop me.



 Your prep is anything but a sound way to win. Darkseid's char can move at lightspeed as well so you won't be able to close the distance if he decides to fly away.

And what the hell are that iron constructs for anyway?



> 2.) Until he shows scans that his blasts can effect me if I go Astral or Intangiable, I'm just going to assume that they won't.



You can't go Astral, that has already been determined in the Aku vs Xellos thread. If Fate can interact with the physical world while intangiable then that means there is still something from him there in the physical world that can be interacted with.



> 3.) That Darkseid was weakened. Though its still a good feat.



When was Darkseid weakened to herald level? He wouldn't have ruled over Apokolips for long if that had happened.



> I can also plant my suggestion spell (Long range spell) and make him get out of his suit. Leaving him open to any of my attacks. Or make him kill himself.



Always a question on who such stuff works.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> Actually, he hasn't said anything like that to me.
> Its just that I think he sounds more polite when he is stating his points, in general, at least at the start of this thread.
> 
> That is, according to me, a sign of a better debater.
> ...


Again, do you think his character can beat mine? This tourny isn't about who is a better debater. Though being a good debater certainly will help. I'm just going to assume you haven't read through the thread if you think he's being "more polite"


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Your prep is anything but a sound way to win. Darkseid's char can move at lightspeed as well so you won't be able to close the distance if he decides to fly away.
> 
> And what the hell are that iron constructs for anyway?


Except I can teleport? Kurse's weakness is Iron. If he gets on the ground, he instantly will be stabbed by them and die.



> You can't go Astral, that has already been determined in the Aku vs Xellos thread. If Fate can interact with the physical world while intangiable then that means there is still something from him there in the physical world that can be interacted with.


I see, I can still use my spells though.



> When was Darkseid weakened to herald level? He wouldn't have ruled over Apokolips for long if that had happened.


Its a long story. Darkseid was weakened and someone impersonated him and Dr.Fate beated up that guy thinking it was the real Darkseid. 



> Always a question on who such stuff works.


Why wouldn't it work? It worked on Mordru.


EDIT: Are you defending Darkseid? I've noticed you haven't called him out on anything at all... almost as if you guys are a team.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Except I can teleport? Kurse's weakness is Iron. If he gets on the ground, he instantly will be stabbed by them and die.


 Becaus eit isnt like Kurse is wearing some sort of armor... oh wait... he is 



> I see, I can still use my spells though.


So can I



> Its a long story. Darkseid was weakened and someone impersonated him and Dr.Fate beated up that guy thinking it was the real Darkseid.


Which means that feat is all but worthless now.
Desaad has no powers.



> Why wouldn't it work? It worked on Mordru.


Mordru is a marvel dark elf


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Again, do you think his character can beat mine? This tourny isn't about who is a better debater. Though being a good debater certainly will help. I'm just going to assume you haven't read through the thread if you think he's being "more polite"



Actually, the debating ability of the user is pretty important, since it is needed to convince all of us who wins, so that we can vote.

But couldn't his blast work against you, though?

I mean, it comes from a pretty impressive source (not that I care all that much about this thread though, since this isn't my fight, but it is good to find out what my possible competition is capable of), doesn't it?


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Becaus eit isnt like Kurse is wearing some sort of armor... oh wait... he is


Except I can make you get out of it.




> So can I


What are you talking about?



> Mordru is a marvel dark elf


So? Unless you have a scan that Kurse is immune to such attacks, then it would work.


> Which means that feat is all but worthless now.
> Desaad has no powers.


Impressive some-what none the less. This isn't about Darkseid anyways.

c


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> Actually, the debating ability of the user is pretty important, since it is needed to convince all of us who wins, so that we can vote.
> 
> But couldn't his blast work against you, though?
> 
> I mean, it comes from a pretty impressive source (not that I care all that much about this thread though, since this isn't my fight, but it is good to find out what my possible competition is capable of), doesn't it?


Except none of his attacks would hurt me due to my Pre and Post Cog + Intangability.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Except I can teleport? Kurse's weakness is Iron. If he gets on the ground, he instantly will be stabbed by them and die.



Ahh... You still have to get him out of the armor for that. Not to forget that the thing is unaffected by one of the strongest forces in the DC universe. Darkseid's omega beams. I kinda doubt the capability of Fate's magic being able to penetrate the armor.




> I see, I can still use my spells though.



True.



> Its a long story. Darkseid was weakened and someone impersonated him and Dr.Fate beated up that guy thinking it was the real Darkseid.



Then it's not really an impressive feat if he beat up an imposter.




> Why wouldn't it work? It worked on Mordru.



Really? When?



> EDIT: Are you defending Darkseid? I've noticed you haven't called him out on anything at all... almost as if you guys are a team.



It's not like you didn't do that in the Vance vs EvilMoogle thread. I also think that Darkseid's strategy is more sound than yours.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Ahh... You still have to get him out of the armor for that. Not to forget that the thing is unaffected by one of the strongest forces in the DC universe. Darkseid's omega beams. I kinda doubt the capability of Fate's magic being able to penetrate the armor.


If the armor can't be harmed then it shouldn't be allowed. Not that it matters, since I could just use my suggestion spell. Or summon the gods to destroy him. 



> True.


.



> Really? When?






> It's not like you didn't do that in the Vance vs EvilMoogle thread. I also think that Darkseid's strategy is more sound than yours.


Except I was pretty sure Vance would win until Moogle showed that he can just make it so Buu couldn't regenerate.

Also, what stragety? His prep is simply going in the air basically..


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> If the armor can't be harmed then it shouldn't be allowed. Not that it matters, since I could just use my suggestion spell. Or summon the gods to destroy him.


It can be harmed

It cant be harmed by YOU thou.

im assuming you are ready to show some god scans.

All he did is kept him from killing them

It seems your suggestion is much more limit  then you were implying


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> If the armor can't be harmed then it shouldn't be allowed. Not that it matters, since I could just use my suggestion spell. Or summon the gods to destroy him.


 
Oh, I know of quite a few ways. It has nothing to do with penetrating the armor though. I'm part of this tournament as well, I made my homework on most characters.


Hmm... Mordru wasn't in a battle situation and didn't even pay attention to what Fate was doing. Not to forget that Fate also voiced his doubts that it would work.



> Except I was pretty sure Vance would win until Moogle showed that he can just make it so Buu couldn't regenerate.



Same case here.



> Also, what stragety? His prep is simply going in the air basically..



Stragety? The little brother of lojic, FAKT and can(n)on?

Seriously though, I meant what developed throughout the thread, not the preps alone.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> It can be harmed
> 
> It cant be harmed by YOU thou.
> 
> im assuming you are ready to show some god scans.


Who has harmed it before? God scans he missed. But that won't happen due to no CIS




> All he did is kept him from killing them
> 
> It seems your suggestion is much more limit then you were implying


The implated that in so he would release them. Just like I will use the spell to make you get out of your armor.



> > Oh, I know of quite a few ways. It has nothing to do with penetrating the armor though. I'm part of this tournament as well, I made my homework on most characters.


I do as well. 



> Hmm... Mordru wasn't in a battle situation and didn't even pay attention to what Fate was doing. Not to forget that Fate also voiced his doubts that it would work.


It wouldn't make any difference if he was paying attention. Fate has all the time in the world since he is intangiable.



> Same case here.


What has Darkseid shown that will hurt me?



> Seriously though, I meant what developed throughout the thread, not the preps alone.


Except I have already refuted his points.


----------



## Gig (Jan 19, 2008)

I have just noticed some thing here if Darkseid got his hands on your he could make you his bitch rather easily considering he is like 90x stronger than you physically (even though you have hulks body) because base Thor is roughly around the same strength as hulk but Kurse is 8x stronger than Thor physically and on top of that his has Thors strength any way because he chose Thors powers making him 9x stronger than Thor though that is a power house in it’s self he has entered warrior madness giving him around a 10x increase in strength and durability making him a f***ing monster in close quarters if he gets his hands on you you’re pretty much fucked.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Xellos Metallium said:


> I have just noticed some thing here if Darkseid got his hands on your he could make you his bitch rather easily considering he is like 90x stronger than you physically (even though you have hulks body) because base Thor is roughly around the same strength as hulk but Kurse is 8x stronger than Thor physically and on top of that his has Thors strength any way because he chose Thors powers making him 9x stronger than Thor though that is a power house in it’s self he has entered warrior madness giving him around a 10x increase in strength and durability making him a f***ing monster in close quarters if he gets his hands on you’re your pretty much fucked.


Except I'm intangiable? Besides, War Hulk is probably stronger then Kurse, (He did lift 150 billion tons) (And that was only savage hulk)


----------



## Gig (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Except I'm intangiable?



I did say if and don’t you have to become tangible to attack?


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Who has harmed it before? God scans he missed. But that won't happen due to no CIS


It didnt miss it got over powered



> The implated that in so he would release them. Just like I will use the spell to make you get out of your armor.


No He suggested from positive thought to positive thought

what your trying to do is from positive to the other end of the spectrum (negative)



> I do as well.



doesnt seem like it



> It wouldn't make any difference if he was paying attention. Fate has all the time in the world since he is intangiable.


It kinda does make a difference
trying to swat a fly would not paying attention is a hell of alot harder then when you are



> What has Darkseid shown that will hurt me?


Everything



> Except I have already refuted his points.



No you really havent


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Ok, I'm going to try this and see what Darkseid does to counter it.

Since I'm already intangiable, I don't have to worry about any injury, I use a invisibility spell, or use Speed Force to make myself invisible. Then I teleport behind Kurse and use my atom destroyer and then he dies.

If the atom destroyer doesn't work, then I use simply deconstruct the armor's atoms destroying it. Then I use the atom destroyer on Kurse. Killing him.


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## Gig (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Ok, I'm going to try this and see what Darkseid does to counter it.
> 
> Since I'm already intangiable, I don't have to worry about any injury, I use a invisibility spell, or use Speed Force to make myself invisible. Then I teleport behind Kurse and use my atom destroyer and then he dies.
> 
> If the atom destroyer doesn't work, then I use simply deconstruct the armor's atoms destroying it. Then I use the atom destroyer on Kurse. Killing him.



If he doe?s survive you just lost your chance he is going to turn around and grab you the instant he get's hit and rip you to shreds I know your invisible but you just did give away your position with an attack.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> No He suggested from positive thought to positive thought
> 
> what your trying to do is from positive to the other end of the spectrum (negative)


How is getting out of the armor negative? Besides, I doesn't matter, it works both ways.



> It kinda does make a difference
> trying to swat a fly would not paying attention is a hell of alot harder then when you are


What a horrible analogy.



> Everything


Such as? I'm intangiable, so none of your attacks will even hurt me.



> No you really havent


Post them, so I can refute them if you didn't catch it the first time.


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## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> If he doe’s survive you just lost your chance he is going to turn around and grab you the instant he get's hit and rip you to shreds I know your invisible but you just did give away your position with an attack.


I'm intangiable. I can use spells while intangiable, so he couldn't do that anyways.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> How is getting out of the armor negative? Besides, I doesn't matter, it works both ways.


No it doesnt. Getting out of the armor would put Kurse idirectly into harms way (aka negative)
Where as the suggestion you show he went from killing them (positive for him)
To using them to further his own gains... also positive. 



> What a horrible analogy.


Your right.

It is more like cracking a muli-layer evolving mathematical algorithm 



> Such as? I'm intangiable, so none of your attacks will even hurt me.


God blast, anti force, or I could use the armor's enegery it's self 



> Post them, so I can refute them if you didn't catch it the first time.


arggh

I dont wanna. Why dont you go look yourself


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## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> No it doesnt. Getting out of the armor would put Kurse idirectly into harms way (aka negative)
> Where as the suggestion you show he went from killing them (positive for him)
> To using them to further his own gains... also positive.


What proof do you have that Fate can only do postitive to postitive? Or are you just making that up?



> God blast, anti force, or I could use the armor's enegery it's self


Except all of those things wouldn't hurt me anyways. Since I'm intangiable + regen + dodge.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Except I'm intangiable? Besides, War Hulk is probably stronger then Kurse, (He did lift 150 billion tons) (And that was only savage hulk)



1. hulk only braced it
2. thor did the equivilent of lifting a continent
Kurse was originally a little stronger then thor
Then kurse got his strength doubled
Then kurse got his strength further qaudripled by beyonder
+ the fact that armor by itself is a little stronger then wonder women means that i rape you to your unholy god in h2h



Sonic said:


> What proof do you have that Fate can only do postitive to postitive? Or are you just making that up?


I didnt say he could only do positive positive

But if you dont have proof he cant make someone put themselves directly in harms way then I will have something to build off that he cant



> Except all of those things wouldn't hurt me anyways. Since I'm intangiable + regen + dodge.


So you really think the energies of impierex cant hurt intangible beings?


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> 1. hulk only braced it
> 2. thor did the equivilent of lifting a continent
> Kurse was originally a little stronger then thor
> Then kurse got his strength doubled
> ...


Have any scans of the Thor feat?



> I didnt say he could only do positive positive
> 
> But if you dont have proof he cant make someone put themselves directly in harms way then I will have something to build off that he cant


I don't have to have proof, he can use a suggestion spell to make people do things. You say that he can't. So the burden of proof is on you.



> So you really think the energies of impierex cant hurt intangible beings?


I'm not going to assume things. Scans is the only thing that matters.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Have any scans of the Thor feat?



Already posted it



> I don't have to have proof, he can use a suggestion spell to make people do things. You say that he can't. So the burden of proof is on you.


You have shown anything that goes against person interest
That is the whole point 



> I'm not going to assume things. Scans is the only thing that matters.


Youve been assuming thing this whole time.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Already posted it


Oh. Well, it doesn't really matter I guess.



> You have shown anything that goes against person interest
> That is the whole point


Ok, then I make Kurse overconfident and get out of his armor to try and kill me.



> Youve been assuming thing this whole time


Its not an assumption. I know that none of your attacks will hurt me unless you prove otherwise


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Oh. Well, it doesn't really matter I guess.



Right.....



> Ok, then I make Kurse overconfident and get out of his armor to try and kill me.


 why would he do that when he could kill you much easier with his power boosting armor on...



> Its not an assumption. I know that none of your attacks will hurt me unless you prove otherwise



You assume it wont work but you have yet to post intangibility against magic
+ the fact that you even showed fate trapped in a magic bubble

And you assume your atom smasher would work when it hasnt been put up against anything more durable then a steel bar

And you assume your spell would work on me when I ame a more powerful magical creature then you.

lots of things to assume


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> why would he do that when he could kill you much easier with his power boosting armor on..


I use the spell to suggest cockiness.



> You assume it wont work but you have yet to post intangibility against magic
> + the fact that you even showed fate trapped in a magic bubble


Fate wasn't intangiable when in the bubble.



> And you assume your spell would work on me when I ame a more powerful magical creature then you.


No you aren't. Unless you have proof.



> And you assume your atom smasher would work when it hasnt been put up against anything more durable then a steel bar


Durability is irrelevant, because it destroys the atoms... the spell isn't like a punch. 

Even if intangiability doesn't work, Pre and Post Cognition + my speed could just dodge all of your attacks. I can also go into my astral form, which would definitely make the attacks go through me.


----------



## Gig (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I use the spell to suggest cockiness.



Sonic he is in warrior madness how the hell do you suggest for him to get out of the armour his mind is consumed by madness and all he want’s to do in that state is to kill you a minor surgestion will do nothing.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I use the spell to suggest cockiness.


Warrior madness says no



> Fate wasn't intangiable when in the bubble.


So you admit he cant become intangible when he wants



> No you aren't. Unless you have proof.


Your the hulk

your made of flesh and gamma

Im a magic darkelf from agaurd.... yeah....



> Durability is irrelevant, because it destroys the atoms... the spell isn't like a punch.


Prove durability is irrelevant



> Even if intangiability doesn't work, Pre and Post Cognition + my speed could just dodge all of your attacks. I can also go into my astral form, which would definitely make the attacks go through me.


ASTRAL FORM IS INTANGIBILIY!

You dont even you know own character

And what the hell is post cog supposed to do?

Hmm.  Kurse threw a punch here 5 years ago... interesting...


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

9569]Sonic he is in warrior madness how the hell do you suggest for him to get out of the armour his mind is consumed by madness and all he want’s to do in that state is to kill you a minor surgestion will do nothing.[/QUOTE]
Yes, since he is consumed by madness, I'll take advantage of that and use suggestion to make him think that he is much much stronger then me without his armor and he doesn't need it. So he'll get out it and try to fight me hand to hand.



> So you admit he cant become intangible when he wants


Its called CIS.



> Your the hulk
> 
> your made of flesh and gamma
> 
> Im a magic darkelf from agaurd.... yeah....


I also have a cosmic item that makes me Dr. Fate.



> Prove durability is irrelevant


Every atom is the same in "durability" atoms don't vary in such.



> ASTRAL FORM IS INTANGIBILIY!
> 
> You dont even you know own character
> 
> ...


Yes I do. The difference is that Astral Intagability is simply intaganability on the astral plane. Pre cog is more useful for me then post-cog.

You know, I'm not going to bother with this anymore. I'm going to let you post how you think you will kill me. And then we will see.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Durability is irrelevant, because it destroys the atoms... the spell isn't like a punch.



Actually, that is relevant. That's why I wanted to see that scan. There is something called binding energy and you have to overcome that first to disassemble atoms. That's why steel is harder than copper, because the binding energy of the steel's atoms is higher than the one of the copper atoms.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Actually, that is relevant. That's why I wanted to see that scan. There is something called binding energy and you have to overcome that first to disassemble atoms. That's why steel is harder than copper, because the binding energy of the steel's atoms is higher than the one of the copper atoms


True, but when you just destroy every atom, such a thing is not relevant. Because individual atoms do not have "durability". Even if they did, I could always just de-construct his atoms.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> True, but when you just destroy every atom, such a thing is not relevant. Because individual atoms do not have "durability". Even if they did, I could always just de-construct his atoms.



Looking at your scans again he didnt destroy anything
He changed a box to dust.

Yuo cant destory energy you can only change it's form

The Omega beams on the other hand CAN destroy matter... well not destory matter so much as make it so that is never existed.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> True, but when you just destroy every atom, such a thing is not relevant. Because individual atoms do not have "durability". Even if they did, I could always just de-construct his atoms.



Yes, atoms do have binding energy as well... And how do you de-construct his atoms? You would still need to overcome the binding energy to take them apart in any way.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Yes, atoms do have binding energy as well... And how do you de-construct his atoms? You would still need to overcome the binding energy to take them apart in any way.


Fate can re-construct atoms so he should be able to de-construct (Moogle was allowed this in his fight). Ok, how strong is this "binding energy" then? 



> Looking at your scans again he didnt destroy anything
> He changed a box to dust.
> 
> Yuo cant destory energy you can only change it's form
> ...


Ok, so I turn your armor into dust.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Ok, so I turn your armor into dust.



No you ATTEMPT to turn my armor into dust


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> No you ATTEMPT to turn my armor into dust


I teleport behind you and turn your armor to dust. Or I become invisible and then teleport and turn your armor to dust. 

Also, you still haven't responded to my request. Post how you will beat me. Just a possible scenario. And I'll refute it.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I teleport behind you and turn your armor to dust. Or I become invisible and then teleport and turn your armor to dust.
> 
> Also, you still haven't responded to my request. Post how you will beat me. Just a possible scenario. And I'll refute it.



You still havent shown the atom smasher having more power then the omega beams

So far all your doing is teleporting around and keeping away from my devestating blows

which is also known as stalling


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Fate can re-construct atoms so he should be able to de-construct (Moogle was allowed this in his fight). Ok, how strong is this "binding energy" then?



Buu's body is not the most durable around. Damn thing can even be pierced by bullets. And the strength of binding energy depends on the atom. Oxygen has a lower binding energy than iron, which has a lower binding energy than titanium...etc.  The armor is made of pretty much the most durable material in the entire DCverse, so the binding energy should exceed that of any material known to us.

Save to say is that since the Omega beams can't go through it, it's pretty much impossible to 'de-construct' it.


----------



## Gig (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I teleport behind you and turn your armor to dust. Or I become invisible and then teleport and turn your armor to dust.
> 
> Also, you still haven't responded to my request. Post how you will beat me. Just a possible scenario. And I'll refute it.



The only way you can win is by blunt force trauma or a head concussion lol off which both are out of your scope range because if you try to melee some one 90x stronger than you your dead from the first exchange of blows.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> You still havent shown the atom smasher having more power then the omega beams
> 
> So far all your doing is teleporting around and keeping away from my devestating blows
> 
> which is also known as stalling


Why does it have to have more power then your Omega Beams? Also, state how you are going to beat me.



> So far all your doing is teleporting around and keeping away from my devestating blows


Except I don't have to since they will just go right through me.

What attacks exactly have damaged this armor of yours?



> The armor is made of pretty much the most durable material in the entire DCverse, so the binding energy should exceed that of any material known to us.


What metal is that exactly?



> The only way you can win is by blunt force trauma or a head concussion lol off which both are out of your scope range because if you try to melee some one 90x stronger than you your dead from the first exchange of blows.


Or I can just turn him into dust?


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Why does it have to have more power then your Omega Beams? Also, state how you are going to beat me.


Beacuse the omega beams couldnt scratch it. 
And im am going to continue to blast you with my god blast / Anti-force/ Imperiex energy until you are tired of dodging or i hit you and you die

And if you get in close im going to rip your spine out.



> Except I don't have to since they will just go right through me.


You still havent proven your intangibility to magic



> What attacks exactly have damaged this armor of yours?


Im not handing you anything that would help you beat me. Research it yourself.



> What metal is that exactly?


I dont think it has a name



> Or I can just turn him into dust?


Or you could fail miserably (far far far more likely)


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Beacuse the omega beams couldnt scratch it.
> And im am going to continue to blast you with my god blast / Anti-force/ Imperiex energy until you are tired of dodging or i hit you and you die
> 
> And if you get in close im going to rip your spine out.


With Hulk stamina I'll never get tired for the duration of this match. Unless it lasts hundreds of years.



> And if you get in close im going to rip your spine out.


Except I'm intangiable.



> You still havent proven your intangibility to magic


You still haven't proved that your attacks will go through my intangability. 



> Im not handing you anything that would help you beat me. Research it yourself.


I'll just make a thread then.



> Or you could fail miserably (far far far more likely)


Uh huh.


I love you keep on avoiding my request for your plan on how you will defeat me. I take that as a concession.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> With Hulk stamina I'll never get tired for the duration of this match. Unless it lasts hundreds of years.


It could last for a million years and it wouldnt matter to kurse

he will still be going to the movies and getting ass when hulk is only a memory and dust on the wind.



> Except I'm intangiable.





> You still haven't proved that your attacks will go through my intangability.


You your post of scan of dr.Fate trapped in a magic bubble. And you posted a scan of dr.fate getting overpowered instead of phasing thru the attack

You yourself have already been providing evidence against the case your trying to prove


> I'll just make a thread then.


Gay...


> I love you keep on avoiding my request for your plan on how you will defeat me. I take that as a concession.


My concession would be the only chance your have of winning this match.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> You your post of scan of dr.Fate trapped in a magic bubble. And you posted a scan of dr.fate getting overpowered instead of phasing thru the attack
> 
> You yourself have already been providing evidence against the case your trying to prove


What are you talking about? Was Dr. Fate intangiable in those scans? No.



> My concession would be the only chance your have of winning this match.


So are you going to post how you can beat me or not?


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> What are you talking about? Was Dr. Fate intangiable in those scans? No.


Exactly

Because he couldnt go intagible thru magic
Game set match

1. You cant hurt me
2. I can hurt you

There is only 1 way this match can go.



> So are you going to post how you can beat me or not?



I already did.

Since h2h is for you i will simply spam IB/GB/AF and you will die

Since we move at the same speed you cant outrun me and once i hit you once it is over

1. I hit you
2. You are stunned
3. I hit you more
4. You die.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> Exactly
> 
> Because he couldnt go intagible thru magic
> Game set match
> ...


Do you have any proof of that? It was clearly CIS. But since you said he can't. Lets see some proof.



> I already did.
> 
> Since h2h is for you i will simply spam IB/GB/AF and you will die
> 
> ...


Do you forget that I have Pre-Cog and teleportation?


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Do you have any proof of that? It was clearly CIS. But since you said he can't. Lets see some proof.


Right.. CIS twice...Yeah...

You already post the proof against yourself TWICE
Your just grasping straws now



> Do you forget that I have Pre-Cog and teleportation?


They only delay the inevitable


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Right.. CIS twice...Yeah...
> 
> You already post the proof against yourself TWICE
> Your just grasping straws now
> ...


Yeah, you need to change Thor and your armor. They both are powers/items beyond herald level.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Yeah, you need to change Thor and your armor. They both are powers/items beyond herald level.



No they arent


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> No they arent


Thor pwned Sliver Surfer. The armor tanks Omega Beams. They are above the scope of this tournament. I suggest you enter the High-Tier tournament.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Thor pwned Sliver Surfer. The armor tanks Omega Beams. They are above the scope of this tournament. I suggest you enter the High-Tier tournament.



Annhilation surfer and Ion are above silver surfer classic
And the armor can me destreoyed by a herald level because a herald level is who did it. Im just not telling you how.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Annhilation surfer and Ion are above silver surfer classic
> And the armor can me destreoyed by a herald level because a herald level is who did it. Im just not telling you how.


Beating a herald puts you above herald level... unless you tell me how, then I just have to assume it cannot be destroyed, which bans the item. Thor is above Herald Level.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Beating a herald puts you above herald level... unless you tell me how, then I just have to assume it cannot be destroyed, which bans the item. Thor is above Herald Level.



I can tell Id but im not telling you.

Find out yourself


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> I can tell Id but im not telling you.
> 
> Find out yourself


Again, if don't show me, your opponent. Then I assume that it cannot be destroyed. If you aren't going to provide proof for anything, then you might as well be making things up.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Again, if don't show me, your opponent. Then I assume that it cannot be destroyed. If you aren't going to provide proof for anything, then you might as well be making things up.



Why would I show you? im trying to beat you.

That is like you being a daxamite and me asking you what your kryptonite is.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Why would I show you? im trying to beat you.
> 
> That is like you being a daxamite and me asking you what your kryptonite is.


Anyways, my Pre-Cog will make it so none of your attacks even touch me. + Intangability (Your "magic" will just go through me unless you prove otherwise).


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Anyways, my Pre-Cog will make it so none of your attacks even touch me. + Intangability (Your "magic" will just go through me unless you prove otherwise).




That says you cant go thru magic


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> That says you cant go thru magic


It never says that...


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> It never says that...



On panel evidence suggest other wise


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> On panel evidence suggest other wise


Again, it never says that. Go ahead and open it up in paint and show me where it says that intangability doesn't work with magic?


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Again, it never says that. Go ahead and open it up in paint and show me where it says that intangability doesn't work with magic?



On panel evidence shows him being trapped and not being able to escape

And this shows him not being able to phase thru offensive magic

God scans
God scans
God scans


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> On panel evidence shows him being trapped and not being able to escape
> 
> And this shows him not being able to phase thru offensive magic
> 
> ...


Again, none of those things prove anything. If you want to prove something. Find a scan of him intangiable and trying to defend himself from a magical attack.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Again, none of those things prove anything. If you want to prove something. Find a scan of him intangiable and trying to defend himself from a magical attack.



So far the scans are 2 to 0 against

If you can show me him phasing thru magic ill admit he can


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> So far the scans are 2 to 0 against
> 
> If you can show me him phasing thru magic ill admit he can


I don't have to show that he can. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Intangability is intangability. Besides, you can't use Godblast or Anti-Force since you don't have your hammer.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I don't have to show that he can. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. Intangability is intangability. Besides, you can't use Godblast or Anti-Force since you don't have your hammer.



2 scans show otherwise

And i dont need the hammer for the anti-force

And id said I can use godblast without the hammer so


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> 2 scans show otherwise
> 
> And i dont need the hammer for the anti-force
> 
> And id said I can use godblast without the hammer so





> 2 scans show otherwise


Those scans don't prove anything. Its CIS




> And id said I can use godblast without the hammer so


When did he say this?


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Those scans don't prove anything. Its CIS


You have nothing that says otherwise



> When did he say this?


 In a pm


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

> You have nothing that says otherwise


Ok, lets assume that my intangiability wouldn't work on the Anti-Force or Godblast. I would still just regenerate instantly. So there.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Ok, lets assume that my intangiability wouldn't work on the Anti-Force or Godblast. I would still just regenerate instantly. So there.



Post *war hulk * regenerating instantly


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Post *war hulk * regenerating instantly


War Hulks regen + Speed Force 10X Healing speed + Fate healing spell = near instanteous regen. Savage Hulk regens almost instantly anyways.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> War Hulks regen + Speed Force 10X Healing speed + Fate healing spell = near instanteous regen. Savage Hulk regens almost instantly anyways.



I said War hulk not savage hulk

and speedforce doesnt have 10x healing

Their healing changes from flash to flash because not all flashes are created equal

And show fate's healing spell


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> I said War hulk not savage hulk
> 
> and speedforce doesnt have 10x healing
> 
> ...


All Savage Hulk feats apply to War Hulk....
It doesn't matter which Flash it is since my ability is Speed Force, so I can use any feat from any Flash.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> All Savage Hulk feats apply to War Hulk....
> It doesn't matter which Flash it is since my ability is Speed Force, so I can use any feat from any Flash.


Savage hulk =/= war hulk
If you wanted savage hulk you should have said savage hulk

You cant use any feat from any flash because the speed force manifest's itself differently thru each user 

but since im a nice guy ill let you.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> Savage hulk =/= war hulk
> If you wanted savage hulk you should have said savage hulk
> 
> You cant use any feat from any flash because the speed force manifest's itself differently thru each user
> ...


War Hulk can use any of Savage Hulk's feats. Why wouldn't he be able too?  Since War Hulk is strongest then Savage Hulk..


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> War Hulk can use any of Savage Hulk's feats. Why wouldn't he be able too?  Since War Hulk is strongest then Savage Hulk..



War hulk is his own hulk

that is why we call him war hulk and not hulk amped by apoc


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> War hulk is his own hulk
> 
> that is why we call him war hulk and not hulk amped by apoc


Ok, if you are going to be like that, I'll only use World War Hulk feats. But you can't use your armor since you don't know how to use it. (Unless it comes with an instruction manual)


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Ok, if you are going to be like that, I'll only use World War Hulk feats. But you can't use your armor since you don't know how to use it. (Unless it comes with an instruction manual)



War hulk isnt world war hulk

And id said we know how to use our items as if we had them our entire lives

Your falling apart dude.

Give up will you can still mantain a shred of dignity


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> War hulk isnt world war hulk
> 
> And id said we know how to use our items as if we had them our entire lives
> 
> ...


When did he say that? Don't think that I'm resorting to that anyways.

Anyhow, I just absorb all of your energy by using my Speedforce and magic.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> When did he say that? Don't think that I'm resorting to that anyways.
> 
> Anyhow, I just absorb all of your energy by using my Speedforce and magic.



In one of this thread im prety sure he said it today of yesterday

And you have to get within arm's reach for the speed force.

show me scans of fate stealing energy.


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> In one of this thread im prety sure he said it today of yesterday
> 
> And you have to get within arm's reach for the speed force.
> 
> show me scans of fate stealing energy.


I'm not going to show you scans because the scans I have also show one of Fates' weakness. Anyhow, the spell is mid-range and just absorbs the targets energy. Its nothing crazy.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I'm not going to show you scans because the scans I have also show one of Fates' weakness. Anyhow, the spell is mid-range and just absorbs the targets energy. Its nothing crazy.



No scans no proof


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> No scans no proof


I could say that about alot of things you are claiming... in particular your little armor feat. I'll show Id to verify the feat, but I'm not going to reveal my weakness.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 19, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I could say that about alot of things you are claiming... in particular your little armor feat. I'll show Id to verify the feat, but I'm not going to reveal my weakness.



No you have to show the scan to back up your claims. It just so happenes it has your weakness on it.

MY  scans however have nothing on them except my weakness and would hurt my case.

You talking about this?

Link removed
Link removed


----------



## atom (Jan 19, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> No you have to show the scan to back up your claims. It just so happenes it has your weakness on it.
> 
> MY  scans however have nothing on them except my weakness and would hurt my case.
> 
> ...


No, but that would work, albeit towards a lesser extent.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jan 20, 2008)

Sonic said:


> No, but that would work, albeit towards a lesser extent.



It said it was his most powerful one

And it didnt even work.


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

Darkseid said:


> It said it was his most powerful one
> 
> And it didnt even work.


Do you realize who he was fighting? And no, it wasn't his most powerful one. It may have been at the time though.


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

Ah. So it is. After some new developments. It seems that you have no way to win.

God Blast and Anti-Force both require prep. Even if they didn't. War Hulk would just tank both of them and regenerate. Omega Beam would just pass through me. Any physical attacks you may use will just pass through me as well. 

Your Item: Your item is strong. Not strong enough though. I can turn it into dust. Or perhaps through a sun at it to destroy it? Or turn it (and you into metal). I could also just use my Speed Force to go through the armor and take Kurse out of it.

Kurse: Whether or not he is stronger then War Hulk is irrelevant. He won't be able to touch me for many, many reasons. Intangability, invisiability, astral form, pre-cog, super speed, etc. Kurse dies the instant he is out of his armor due to my prep time.

Basically, the only way you stand a change against me is while you are in your armor. Once I get you out of it, you die nigh-instantly.


----------



## Id (Jan 20, 2008)

*So 24 hour notice, until the match ends.*



Darkseid said:


> 2 scans show otherwise
> 
> And i dont need the hammer for the anti-force
> 
> And id said I can use godblast without the hammer so



Actually my exat words where:
*“You retain all of Thors powers with out the use of Runes, Mjolnir, or Odinforce.”*

So no I didn’t allow any powers, without the use of Mjolnir. Meanings if Mjolnir is required to cast Godblast, I didn’t give it the green light.

However, if Thor can summon God Blast without Mjolnir its all good.

If Mjolnir is needed to properly channel God Blast. That’s a case in which each other would have to defend/exploit or argue.

*
Votes so far*
Sonic
Vance
Live Recording

Darksied
Alucard
Live Recording


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

> However, if Thor can summon God Blast without Mjolnir its all good.


Ah, but he can't. The Mjolnir is needed to channel the energies + prep time as well.

I'm *still* waiting for Darkseid to say how exactly he will kill me. 

Godblast (He can't use it anyway, but lets assume he could): I would just regenerate
Antiforce: Regenerate
Omega Beam: Pass through me
Physical Attacks: Wouldn't hurt me/regenerate/pass through me


----------



## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

_So, Darkseid basically has 0 votes now? Because he was making a false arguement before._


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 20, 2008)

Vance said:


> _So, Darkseid basically has 0 votes now? Because he was making a false arguement before._



I wasn't even taking the Godblast into account in my vote. The blasts of the armor itself are already powerful enough, as are the anti-force blasts.


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> I wasn't even taking the Godblast into account in my vote. The blasts of the armor itself are already powerful enough, as are the anti-force blasts.


Except I would just regenerate from all of them, or dodge them. ASSUMING they somehow bypass my intangability (Which he has not proved they will do so).


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 20, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Except I would just regenerate from all of them, or dodge them. ASSUMING they somehow bypass my intangability (Which he has not proved they will do so).



Sorry, but I doubt that Hulk can regen from something that will completely disintegrate him.


----------



## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

_But Sonic's intangible._


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

Vance said:


> _But Sonic's intangible._


Exactly the point


----------



## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

_See Darkseid, your attacks are all useless, even if you *can* hit Sonic, which is a big if, he stills has insane regeneration._


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 20, 2008)

Vance said:


> _But Sonic's intangible._



The Omega beams are intangiable as well, they should have gone through the armor and hit Superman but they couldn't get through. Meaning the armor can block intangiable beings. A punch of it will affect Sonic.


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

Vance said:


> _See Darkseid, your attacks are all useless, even if you *can* hit Sonic, which is a big if, he stills has insane regeneration._


Which is sped up 10 fold due to Speed Force and even more due to Dr. Fate's healing spells. So basically, its more like instant regen then "regen". Not to mention that I could also just use Speed Force intangiability as well. And Pre-Cog to avoid the attacks. Or Post-Cog to see which attacks he will use ahead of time. Or through suns at him. Or turn him into metal, or dust.



> The Omega beams are intangiable as well, they should have gone through the armor and hit Superman but they couldn't get through. Meaning the armor can block intangiable beings. A punch of it will affect Sonic.


Thats bad logic, because going by that, anything that the Omega Beam touches can "block" intangiable beings because it was touched to begin with. Superman for example. Seriously, you can't be serious if you think Superman can "block" intangiable beings?

Besides, Omega Beam shouldn't be allowed since its something that goes in exactly with the one-hit kill cheap move (Homes in on target, erases them from existance, never misses)


----------



## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> The Omega beams are intangiable as well, they should have gone through the armor and hit Superman but they couldn't get through. Meaning the armor can block intangiable beings. A punch of it will affect Sonic.



_Read's Sonic's post. Sonic's character's a true beast. I don't think that attack will truly hit him, yet alone kill him._


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 20, 2008)

Vance said:


> _Read's Sonic's post. Sonic's character's a true beast. I don't think that attack will truly hit him, yet alone kill him._



Nice post. Doesn't change the fact that Omega beams >>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Fate has. His magics won't affect the armor. The damn thing tanked a blast from one of the strongest energy sources in the entire DCU.

Hulk's amped regen is worth nothing because any of Darkseid's available blasts will completely destroy his body. Nothing will be left to regen.

The only thing Sonic has left is slugging it out with Darkseid, which Ds will also win because he has the strength and durability advantage.


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

> Nice post. Doesn't change the fact that Omega beams >>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Fate has. His magics won't affect the armor. The damn thing tanked a blast from one of the strongest energy sources in the entire DCU.


Why wouldn't my magic effect the armor? Is the armor immune to magic?



> Hulk's amped regen is worth nothing because any of Darkseid's available blasts will completely destroy his body. Nothing will be left to regen.


Assuming it hits me. Which it won't.



> The only thing Sonic has left is slugging it out with Darkseid, which Ds will also win because he has the strength advantage.


Not really. Infinte Mass Punch > All.

Again, why couldn't I turn the armor into dust? Or take him out of the armor? Or use suggestion to make him get out of it? Or turn the armor to metal rendering it useless? Or teleporting inside of the armor and killing him from within? (Or better yet, I teleport inside and if he does anything, I still win since I have regen and Kurse does not).


----------



## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

> Nice post. Doesn't change the fact that Omega beams >>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Fate has. His magics won't affect the armor. The damn thing tanked a blast from one of the strongest energy sources in the entire DCU.
> 
> Hulk's amped regen is worth nothing because any of Darkseid's available blasts will completely destroy his body. Nothing will be left to regen.
> 
> The only thing Sonic has left is slugging it out with Darkseid, which Ds will also win because he has the strength and durability advantage.



_The sad thing is, you're making the Hulk seem like a mentally retard slug. Hulk in this match is extremely fast and durable. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even get scratched._


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

Omega Beam is a illegal move. It cannot be used anymore (Id says so). So basically, Darkseid has no way of hurting me.


----------



## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Omega Beam is a illegal move. It cannot be used anymore (Id says so). So basically, Darkseid has no way of hurting me.



_It's over, Sonic won. _


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm so glad I didn't have to unveil my Super-move.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Jan 20, 2008)

How is Darkseid's character using Omega beams?

That's a Darkseid (the DC character) power isn't it?


----------



## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

EvilMoogle said:


> How is Darkseid's character using Omega beams?
> 
> That's a Darkseid (the DC character) power isn't it?



_He isn't now; it's banned. Darkseid is in the same situation I was with you EM. _


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

EvilMoogle said:


> How is Darkseid's character using Omega beams?
> 
> That's a Darkseid (the DC character) power isn't it?


The armor apparently can use omega beams (Though he never provided proof of such..)


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

Victory is impossible for Darkseid at this point. All of his strongest moves have been banned/can't be used.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 20, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Thats bad logic, because going by that, anything that the Omega Beam touches can "block" intangiable beings because it was touched to begin with. Superman for example. Seriously, you can't be serious if you think Superman can "block" intangiable beings?



Way to miss the point. The Omega beams only hit their designated target and go through anything else as if it wasn't there. The OBs couldn't bypass the Entropy Aegis though, even though the beams were meant for Supes.



> Besides, Omega Beam shouldn't be allowed since its something that goes in exactly with the one-hit kill cheap move (Homes in on target, erases them from existance, never



 *Exactly how did you get the idea that anyone can use the Omega Beams in this match? They're used as a durability feat for the armor and nothing else.*



> Why wouldn't my magic effect the armor? Is the armor immune to magic?



Exactly what do you think the Omega beams are? 



> Not really. Infinte Mass Punch > All.



Superman took those as far as I know and came out fine. Entropy Aegis >>>>>> Superman.



> Again, why couldn't I turn the armor into dust?



Again, if the OBs don't affect it, Fate's measly magic won't affect it as well. They're magintudes higher than anything Fate has available.



> Or take him out of the armor?



Because you can't breach the armor.



> Or use suggestion to make him get out of it?



No prove that it will work.



> Or turn the armor to metal rendering it useless?



Refer to my fifth quote.



> Or teleporting inside of the armor and killing him from within? (Or better yet, I teleport inside and if he does anything, I still win since I have regen and Kurse does not).



No space inside the armor. No prove that your magic can go through the armor. OBs>>>>>>>>Fate's magic.



Vance said:


> _The sad thing is, you're making the Hulk seem like a mentally retard slug. Hulk in this match is extremely fast and durable. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even get scratched._



Speed I can see. Durability? Hulk gets regularly hurt by Wolverine's damn claws. He's not durable, he just has massive regen on his side. If any herald level character at any point seriously decided to get rid of Hulk they could do it with utter ease.


----------



## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

> Way to miss the point. The Omega beams only hit their designated target and go through anything else as if it wasn't there. The OBs couldn't bypass the Entropy Aegis though, even though the beams were meant for Supes.


Again, how does that mean that The Entropy is 'immune' to intangability?



> Exactly how did you get the idea that anyone can use the Omega Beams in this match? They're used as a durability feat for the armor and nothing else.


Maybe because he said he would hit me with them?



> Superman took those as far as I know and came out fine. Entropy Aegis >>>>>> Superman.


Scans?



> Again, if the OBs don't affect it, Fate's measly magic won't affect it as well. They're magintudes higher than anything Fate has available.


Measly? You mean the same magic that oblierated the Anti-Life which is infintely stronger then some dumb armor?



> Because you can't breach the armor.


Why wouldn't I  be able to teleport into the armor?



> No space inside the armor. No prove that your magic can go through the armor. OBs>>>>>>>>Fate's magic.


Gasping at straws are we? There doesn't need to be space inside of the armor since I can change my size or be intangiable, so space wouldn't matter. Then I could use my atom destroyer and kill him while inside of the armor.



> Speed I can see. Durability? Hulk gets regularly hurt by Wolverine's damn claws. He's not durable, he just has massive regen on his side. If any herald level character at any point seriously decided to get rid of Hulk they could do it with utter ease.


Except you forget Dr.Fate's nigh-invenurability. (ugh spelling).


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## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

> Speed I can see. Durability? Hulk gets regularly hurt by Wolverine's damn claws. He's not durable, he just has massive regen on his side. If any herald level character at any point seriously decided to get rid of Hulk they could do it with utter ease.



_Wolverine's claws are considered weak now? And with this added speed, he doesn't *have* to be hurt._


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## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

I feel as if this is some kind of team battle against me


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## Vance (Jan 20, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I feel as if this is some kind of team battle against me



_I'm helping you as best as I can Sonic _


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## EvilMoogle (Jan 20, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I feel as if this is some kind of team battle against me



Did you read my battle thread? 

To both competitors: I'm going to re-read everything tomorrow morning and vote after that.  Here's my general thoughts now (meaning what's most likely going to decide my vote).

If Darkseid's character can hit Sonic's character, I think he's got the power to kill him (there needs to be something left to regenerate from).  If Sonic's character can evade sufficiently long he should be able to come up with a magical solution to Darkseid's defenses.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 20, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Again, how does that mean that The Entropy is 'immune' to intangability?



Omega beams = intangiable for anything but their target
Entropy Aegis = was not target
Entropy Aegis = didn't let beams through




> Maybe because he said he would hit me with them?



Point out where because I can't remember it.




> Scans?



Hmm... Wasn't Superman but a White Martian... 




> Measly? You mean the same magic that oblierated the Anti-Life which is infintely stronger then some dumb armor?



Wouldn't that exceed the herald level given for this tournament?




> Gasping at straws are we? There doesn't need to be space inside of the armor since I can change my size or be intangiable, so space wouldn't matter. Then I could use my atom destroyer and kill him while inside of the armor.



On what did the atom destroyer work before? Can you use your magic like that while intangiable or miniature sized? How do you know how much space is left in the armor? Kurse has a massive body.

By the way, since we are already talking about size... how does Nabu's Helmet fit on War Hulk's head?



> Except you forget Dr.Fate's nigh-invenurability. (ugh spelling).



Nigh-invulnerable to what? What has he tanked before?


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## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

> If Darkseid's character can hit Sonic's character, I think he's got the power to kill him (there needs to be something left to regenerate from).


Except Darkseid only has one move, Anti-Force. And that can be dodged rather easily due to my Pre-cog, Light Speed reaction speed, and such. Not to mention that I would just regenerate from it anyways. Anti-Force is strong, but I would just regenerate from it.


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## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

> Omega beams = intangiable for anything but their target
> Entropy Aegis = was not target
> Entropy Aegis = didn't let beams through


This still doesn't prove how the Entropy is immune to all intangiable things. All that proves is that its immune to the "intangability" effects of the Omega Beam. But since you guys are spouting it so much. I need some scans of the Omega beam being confirmed "intangiable"



> Point out where because I can't remember it.


I'll check it out in a bit.



> Wouldn't that exceed the herald level given for this tournament?


Thats only his strongest known attack. Like I have REQUESTED alonge time ago. If This armor has tanked Omega Beams, then what attack can and has hurt it before?



> On what did the atom destroyer work before? Can you use your magic like that while intangiable or miniature sized? How do you know how much space is left in the armor? Kurse has a massive body.


The atom destroyer just turns any atoms to dust, effectively destroying them. Why wouldn't he be able to use his magic while small or intangiable? Of course he can. I don't need to know how much space is left in the armor. I'l ltake my chances since I have nothing to lose (I'm intangiable).



> By the way, since we are already talking about size... how does Nabu's Helmet fit on War Hulk's head?


Tight fit



> Nigh-invulnerable to what? What has he tanked before?


Hits from Anti-Life, Hulk, Zombies, Mordu magic, alot of stuff. Basically, no attack has ever actually hurt Dr. Fate, *ever.*


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 20, 2008)

Sonic said:


> I feel as if this is some kind of team battle against me



You basically asked for it...



Sonic said:


> Just for sake of debate. Why did you vote for Darkseid again? Please tell me so I can refute any reasons you may have to vote for him. Since Darkseid keeps on ignoring my requests for scans.



So, I just kept replying to your replies... Though, it really is kinda unfair.

So, as my final post in this thread... My vote for Darkseid is final, I already stated my reasons and that should be enough.


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## atom (Jan 20, 2008)

> So, as my final post in this thread... My vote for Darkseid is final, I already stated my reasons and that should be enough.


Fine, but Darkseid has no defense against me teleporting into his armor and killing him from the inside. That alone grants me the win.


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## Gig (Jan 21, 2008)

I’ve read the thread and I am kind of having a hard time deciding both seem pretty much impervious to each other darkseid has a huge advantage on strength while sonic has an advantage on versatility and I would hate to ruin one of you 2 guys chances from casting the final vote.
Being honest I see this as a drew as both characters are more or less invincible due to Darkseids armour and to Sonics intangibility. But Moogle did raise a good point about Dr.fates prep so at the moment I my vote is 6/4 to sonic.

Edit:i just found some information that has persuaded me to change my mind sorry Sonic I never realised how powerful the armour Darkseid has is.


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

Xellos Metallium said:


> I’ve read the thread and I am kind of having a hard time deciding both seem pretty much impervious to each other darkseid has a huge advantage on strength while sonic has an advantage on versatility and I would hate to ruin one of you 2 guys chances from casting the final vote.
> Being honest I see this as a drew as both characters are more or less invincible due to Darkseids armour and to Sonics intangibility. But Moogle did raise a good point about Dr.fates prep so at the moment I my vote is 6/4 to sonic.
> 
> Edit:i just found some information that has persuaded me to change my mind sorry Sonic I never realised how powerful the armour Darkseid has is.


What info is that exactly?


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## Gig (Jan 21, 2008)

Sonic said:


> What info is that exactly?



Steel who is a normal man beating down super man in the armour DS has.


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

Xellos Metallium said:


> Steel who is a normal man beating down super man in the armour DS has.


So? Dr.Fate can beatup Anti-Life, who pwns Darkseid and Highfather who are leaps and bounds above Superman.


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## Banhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

Wait, there isn't any Iron on Hade's Realm. It's suposed to be essentialy fire, sulfur, and dead souls


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 21, 2008)

Sonic said:


> So? Dr.Fate can beatup Anti-Life, who pwns Darkseid and Highfather who are leaps and bounds above Superman.



But that exceeds the power limit of this tournament massively. The armor doesn't. Kurse doesn't. And Thor, from all I've seen, doesn't either.


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> But that exceeds the power limit of this tournament massively. The armor doesn't. Kurse doesn't. And Thor, from all I've seen, doesn't either.


He only aquired the power the beat Anti-Life after absorbing all of Darkseid's power, Highfather's power,  Etrigan the Demon, and Orion. As you can see, if he is able to take all of these people's power. Taking Kurses will be a piece of cake.



> Wait, there isn't any Iron on Hade's Realm. It's suposed to be essentialy fire, sulfur, and dead souls


Even if they isn't, I can only just make some.


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## Banhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

How does that work? Iron out of sulfur? Is Dr Fate Bajessus?


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

Banhammer said:


> How does that work? Iron out of sulfur? Is Dr Fate Bajessus?


*make* iron. Besides, I really don't need the iron anymore.

Anyways, since Darkseid hasn't responded to my last response to him (Teleport inside of the suit and kill Kurse from within). I guess he concedes.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 21, 2008)

Sonic said:


> He only aquired the power the beat Anti-Life after absorbing all of Darkseid's power, Highfather's power,  Etrigan the Demon, and Orion. As you can see, if he is able to take all of these people's power. Taking Kurses will be a piece of cake.



Of course he does.../sarcasm

If he could really do that so easily why didn't you use it earlier in this match? 

And assuming he could do that then that proves even more clearly that Fate's powers exceed the limits of this tournament.




Sonic said:


> I guess he concedes.



As if, not everyone has internet access all the time.


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## mystictrunks (Jan 21, 2008)

If you turn sulfur to iron aren't you effecting matter that isn't your own therefore breaking a rule?


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

> As if, not everyone has internet access all the time.


Except he has been on and has looked in this thread..?



> And assuming he could do that then that proves even more clearly that Fate's powers exceed the limits of this tournament.


Not really. I have already said in the first few pages that Dr.Fate could easily take control of Kurse's mind. Then Darkseid said that Kurse is "immune". I asked for scans and he never talked about it again.



> If you turn sulfur to iron aren't you effecting matter that isn't your own therefore beaking a rule?


When did I say that I would turn Sulfur into iron?


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 21, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Except he has been on and has looked in this thread..?



And exactly how do you know that? Darkseid is invisible, you can't see if he's on this board.




> Not really. I have already said in the first few pages that Dr.Fate could easily take control of Kurse's mind. Then Darkseid said that Kurse is "immune". I asked for scans and he never talked about it again.



It doesn't matter what you do. You said Fate could forcibly steal Highfather's, Darkseid's, Orion's and Etrigan's powers. While I don't know the exact limit of the last two, Hf and Ds are both above Skyfather level.

Which put Fate above the level given for this tournament.


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

> And exactly how do you know that? Darkseid is invisible, you can't see if he's on this board.


Look at his post history...?



> It doesn't matter what you do. You said Fate could forcibly steal Highfather's, Darkseid's, Orion's and Etrigan's powers. While I don't know the exact limit of the last two, Hf and Ds are both above Skyfather level.
> 
> Which put Fate above the level given for this tournament.


You don't know the exact cirumstances of the time. Dr. Fate isn't above herald level, if he was I wouldn't have used him. Besides, its not like Darkseid and Highfather were trying to resist. 

Even if this feat didn't exist.

Darkseid hasn't told me how he will resist my teleporting into his armor and killing Kurse move. Heck, he still hasn't showed me how he will even hurt me. You haven't either.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 21, 2008)

Sonic said:


> You don't know the exact cirumstances of the time. Dr. Fate isn't above herald level, if he was I wouldn't have used him. Besides, its not like Darkseid and Highfather were trying to resist.
> 
> Even if this feat didn't exist.



And why would they just allow Fate to take their powers?



> Darkseid hasn't told me how he will resist my teleporting into his armor and killing Kurse move.



Because you haven't proven that you can teleport while intangiable or that it will work at all.

Fate was captured by Mordru's shield. Why didn't he just teleport outside or go intangiable and leave?



> Heck, he still hasn't showed me how he will even hurt me. You haven't either.



By punching you (as said, the armor holds intangiable stuff at bay, the OBs). By blasting you. If intangiability was useful against energy blasts then why didn't Fate do that when he was blasted by them?


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

> And why would they just allow Fate to take their powers?


Because they needed to beat the anti-life?



> Because you haven't proven that you can teleport while intangiable or that it will work at all.
> 
> Fate was captured by Mordru's shield. Why didn't he just teleport outside or go intangiable and leave?


All my spells work while I'm intangiable... its called cis.



> By punching you (as said, the armor holds intangiable stuff at bay, the OBs). By blasting you. If intangiability was useful against energy blasts then why didn't Fate do that when he was blasted by them?


again, CIS.

You still haven't even showed how Darkseid could possibly  beat me. Gasping at straws he?


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## Banhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

Isn't that teleporting trick a one hit ko not allowed in these rules?


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 21, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Because they needed to beat the anti-life?



Why Fate? Why not give all that power to Highfather or Orion?




> All my spells work while I'm intangiable... its called cis.



1. How do you know that they work?

2. Why is it CIS?




> again, CIS.



How so? So everytime Fate gets blasted by something it's CIS? How about it's just not possible? Or maybe his intangibilty is the PIS? You only gave two examples for him going intangiable.

There are probably hundreds of him being hit by blasts. And basic logic would allow us to conclude that since he doesn't just go intangiable to avoid being blasted, then it's either impossible or useless.



> You still haven't even showed how Darkseid could possibly  beat me. Gasping at straws he?



Yes, I did. Several times already, you just chose to ignore it.


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

> Why Fate? Why not give all that power to Highfather or Orion?


They didn't give Fate power, Fate took their power after he was given the ok. Besides, only Fate knows the spell to destroy a reality using the power.




> 1. How do you know that they work?
> 
> 2. Why is it CIS?


1.) Why exactly wouldn't they work? 

2.) The event against Mordu is CIS because Fate is teleported across the universe before. Also, he didn't want to teleport, he wanted to get the entire JLA out of there.




> How so? So everytime Fate gets blasted by something it's CIS? How about it's just not possible? Or maybe his intangibilty is the PIS? You only gave two examples for him going intangiable.


Its not CIS when Fate gets blasted by something. Its CIS when he could've used intangiability to block the attack. 



> There are probably hundreds of him being hit by blasts. And basic logic would allow us to conclude that since he doesn't just go intangiable to avoid being blasted, then it's either impossible or useless.


Its neither, as already been shown.



> Yes, I did. Several times already, you just chose to ignore it.


I already told you how they wouldn't work. You choose to ignore my responses.



> Isn't that teleporting trick a one hit ko not allowed in these rules?


No.


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## Banhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

Man, I want both of you to fail  Too strong for me!


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 21, 2008)

Sonic said:


> They didn't give Fate power, Fate took their power after he was given the ok. Besides, only Fate knows the spell to destroy a reality using the power.



Then what do you have to brag about? Neither could he take Kurse's powers because he won't give them to you and neither is that an impressive feat (same with the Anti-Life), if he has been powered up by two of the most powerful beings in the universe.





> 1.) Why exactly wouldn't they work?



If Fate is intangiable, why should his spells be tangiable? 



> 2.) The event against Mordu is CIS because Fate is teleported across the universe before. Also, he didn't want to teleport, he wanted to get the entire JLA out of there.



Why didn't he teleport all of them outside? Maybe he couldn't because he couldn't pierce the magic shield with his abilities?



> Its not CIS when Fate gets blasted by something. Its CIS when he could've used intangiability to block the attack.



It would be CIS if that had been once or twice. But not all the damn time. 




> Its neither, as already been shown.



You showed nothing except assumption. If he could go intangiable to avoid energy blasts he would have done so. 




> I already told you how they wouldn't work. You choose to ignore my responses.



I didn't ignore it. You just don't seem to understand that Fate is nothing compared to Omega Beams. If they don't get through the armor, you won't get through as well.


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## Banhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

I've seen fate to be compared to strange, he who tussles with Death and beings Gallactus level. Many many degreesabove this tourny limit's
I vote against him.


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

> Then what do you have to brag about? Neither could he take Kurse's powers because he won't give them to you and neither is that an impressive feat (same with the Anti-Life), if he has been powered up by two of the most powerful beings in the universe.


You really don't understand do you? He used and controlled their power in addition to his own..




> I've seen fate to be compared to strange, he who tussles with Death and beings Gallactus level. Many many degreesabove this tourny limit's
> I vote against him


Wait, just because fate is compared to strange, you assume he is equal to strange? lol



> If Fate is intangiable, why should his spells be tangiable?


I'm going to let you think about that for second.



> It would be CIS if that had been once or twice. But not all the damn time.


Find me more then 10 times that happens to Fate and its not CIS then.



> Why didn't he teleport all of them outside? Maybe he couldn't because he couldn't pierce the magic shield with his abilities?


Maybe because Mordu would kill them?



> You showed nothing except assumption. If he could go intangiable to avoid energy blasts he would have done so.


CIS...



> I didn't ignore it. You just don't seem to understand that Fate is nothing compared to Omega Beams. If they don't get through the armor, you won't get through as well.


I'm *TELEPORTING* inside of the armor? Can you not understand? I kill Kurse inside of the armor. He has no defense against such a thing.


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## Banhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

wait, I missed the omega beams... Darkseid better be fighting mind gem dude next round


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

Banhammer said:


> wait, I missed the omega beams... Darkseid better be fighting mind gem dude next round


Darkseid's character cannot use Omega Beams.
Dr. Fate is not above herald level. Unlike Dr. Strange, who can call upon omnipotents and fuse with Eternity, Fate can't go anything like that.


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## Banhammer (Jan 21, 2008)

Who is the greatest enemy he has ever tussled with?


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## FinalEnd (Jan 21, 2008)

Sonic's War hulk takes this.. Specially with speed force!! Come on people this is common sense! 

Going with sonic on this one


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## atom (Jan 21, 2008)

Banhammer said:


> Who is the greatest enemy he has ever tussled with?


Stalematted with a average Spectre and beat Anti-Life with alot of power absorbed.


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## Id (Jan 21, 2008)

Stalemate, the votes are tied. 2 for 2 (unless I missed someone’s vote).

*
Votes so far*
Sonic
Vance
this thread 
FinalEnd
this thread 

Darksied
Alucard
this thread 
Xellos Metallium
this thread


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 21, 2008)

You missed Banhammer.



Banhammer said:


> I've seen fate to be compared to strange, he who tussles with Death and beings Gallactus level. Many many degreesabove this tourny limit's
> I vote against him.


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## Id (Jan 21, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> You missed Banhammer.



Ok its settled then Darksied wins. (3-2)


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 21, 2008)

Id said:


> Ok its settled then Sonic wins. (3-2)



 Banhammer voted against Sonic... Fate is one of Sonic's characters.


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## Id (Jan 21, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Banhammer voted against Sonic... Fate is one of Sonic's characters.



See this is why I want to see a clear I *Vote:*

Darksied Advances.


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## atom (Jan 22, 2008)

Id said:


> See this is why I want to see a clear I *Vote:*
> 
> Darksied Advances.


What?

Sonic Votes:
Xellos
Final End
Vance

Xello's vote doesn't count for Darkseid since he never said he voted for him while he said he votes for me 6/4 times...

So really, its 3 to 2.


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## Ax_ (Jan 22, 2008)

Id, you missed me as well, I think.
I voted for Darkseid.


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## atom (Jan 22, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> Id, you missed me as well, I think.
> I voted for Darkseid.


3 for 3 then. Unless Xellos betrays me!


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 22, 2008)

Sonic said:


> 3 for 3 then. Unless Xellos betrays me!



Read his edit, he said he changed his mind.


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## Ax_ (Jan 22, 2008)

Sonic said:


> 3 for 3 then. Unless Xellos betrays me!



Where exactly does it say that he voted for you, again?


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## EvilMoogle (Jan 22, 2008)

Well, while we wait for Id to post the official recount I'd just like to point out that Id posted his results before I could post my vote.  So in the event of a tie my vote is still in play.

I accept bribes in the form of delectable baked goods hand prepaired by scantily clad nymphs...


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## Ax_ (Jan 22, 2008)

EvilMoogle said:


> Well, while we wait for Id to post the official recount I'd just like to point out that Id posted his results before I could post my vote.  So in the event of a tie my vote is still in play.
> 
> I accept bribes in the form of delectable baked goods hand prepaired by scantily clad nymphs...



Don't suppose you would accept porn or something like that instead?


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## EvilMoogle (Jan 22, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> Don't suppose you would accept porn or something like that instead?



Bleh, this is the Internet, the value of porn is essentially zero


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## Ax_ (Jan 22, 2008)

EvilMoogle said:


> Bleh, this is the Internet, the value of porn is essentially zero



True enough


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## Ax_ (Jan 22, 2008)

You know, I'm not even going to ask where the hell you people find things like that, because I am certain I really don't want to  know what you people look at...


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 22, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> You know, I'm not even going to ask where the hell you people find things like that, because I am certain I really don't want to  know what you people look at...



Photobucket is your friend!


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## Ax_ (Jan 22, 2008)

Alucard2997 said:


> Photobucket is your friend!



Yeah right, pretend as if you don't spend all your time looking for Moogle porn 
I'm on to you!


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## EvilMoogle (Jan 22, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> Yeah right, pretend as if you don't spend all your time looking for Moogle porn
> I'm on to you!



Doesn't everyone?  *scratches head*


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 22, 2008)

I like EvilMoogle's dark tan and red glowing eyes... They make him look a lot more manly than those regular moogles.


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## Id (Jan 22, 2008)

In the Edit - Xellos states he changed his mind. Ax_ acknowledges a vote for Darksied. It officially 4-2 in Darksied's favor.


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## Ax_ (Jan 22, 2008)

Id said:


> In the Edit - Xellos states he changed his mind. Ax_ acknowledges a vote for Darksied. It officially 4-2 in Darksied's favor.



Then Darkseid won, I guess.


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## Id (Jan 22, 2008)

Indeed, this was probably the most controversial yet interesting match. Both had broken items, both ware calling up feats well beyond the benchmark (no prep time). It was still a pain in the ass, to read through 13 pages of rebuttals, and keep track with the rest of the tournament. I seriously should have had some staff help.


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## Ax_ (Jan 22, 2008)

Well, then Congratz, Darkseid!
A victory well deserved, after this much arguments!

Good luck in the next battle, ok?
Don't lose now!


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