# Batman vs Hogwarts



## Super Asian (May 16, 2013)

Location: Arkham Island

State of Mind: In Character

Knowledge: Batman has basic knowledge on the wizards, Hogwarts has none.

Restrictions: No Dumbledore. 

Scenario 1: Batman has standard gear, Hogwarts has no idea he's coming.

Scenario 2: Batman gets a week of prep, Hogwarts is informed that _something_ is coming 4 days prior.

Scenario 3: Same as scenario 2, but everyone is willing to kill. Dumbledore steps in here.

Bonus: Voldemort and his army takes the place of the students.

Bad matchup? Or will this be a reasonable debate? -isn't completely sure- 

Note: This is not the school itself, only those related with the school.


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## Tacocat (May 16, 2013)

S2 and 3 go to Bats in a bloody fucking shitstomp.


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## shade0180 (May 16, 2013)

Is the batcave standard gear?  S2 and S3 is rape.


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## Edward Nygma (May 16, 2013)

Even with a month of prep how does Bats even get into the castle undetected? With the Wizards knowing "something" is coming, the should be able to erect defenses Bats just can't deal with.

Plus, even with the whole in character thing going. At least half of the Slytherin class would just kill him on site.

Oh, and are Hogwarts standard array of protection spells and barriers still in play? My main concern is whether or not the wizards can apparate on school grounds.


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## Expelsword (May 16, 2013)

How does Batman counter magic?


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 16, 2013)

Datenshi Uchiha said:


> Plus, even with the whole in character thing going. At least half of the Slytherin class would just kill him on sight.



The only Slytherin student who has ever killed anyone under a non-death eater headmastership is voldermort himself.


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## Saitomaru (May 16, 2013)

I'm confused... by hogwarts do you just mean those associated with it and not the building itself? I ask because you said the location is Arkham Island. Is this just the people or do they get the building too?

S1:
With building- They chill and he never finds them
Without- He beats down a good portion before someone either stuns, kills, transfigures, etc him.
S2: 
With building- They chill
Without- They die
S3:
See S2


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## shade0180 (May 16, 2013)

And Batman regularly deal with wizard and magicians so much more above than potter verse has ever shown(So are you guys giving NLF wank on potter verse magic) . why wouldn't he be able to detect them with prep?


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## Poxbox (May 16, 2013)

Datenshi Uchiha said:


> Snip


The fight is on Arkham Island. By "Hogwarts" OP meant the inhabitants of Hogwarts (teachers+students-Dumbledore) not the school itself.

S1 (no prep, no BL): Batman takes it 7/10. 3/10 someone manages to hit him with a spell and he is incapacitated.

S2 (unequal prep, no BL): Batman wins with lowtech equipment (Batarangs+K.O.gas). Outside of a BD match he would get outside help to negate the antitech magic.

S3 (unequal prep, BL): Horrible murderstomp for Batman with lowtech muggle weapons.


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## Saitomaru (May 16, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> And Batman regularly deal with wizard and magicians so much more above than potter verse has ever shown(So are you guys giving NLF wank on potter verse magic) . why wouldn't he be able to detect them with prep?



wat.gif



Poxbox said:


> The fight is on Arkham Island. By "Hogwarts" OP meant the inhabitants of Hogwarts (teachers+students-Dumbledore) not the school itself.
> 
> S1 (no prep, no BL): Batman takes it 7/10. 3/10 someone manages to hit him with a spell and he is incapacitated.
> 
> ...



Okay then, without the building itself I agree with you for the most part.


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## Tacocat (May 16, 2013)

Insider Suit no-diff


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## shade0180 (May 17, 2013)

@ Saitomaru. Why wouldn't Batman be able to locate Hogwarts in scenario two when he has knowledge and prep time?


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## Əyin (May 17, 2013)




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## Saitomaru (May 17, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> @ Saitomaru. Why wouldn't Batman be able to locate Hogwarts in scenario two when he has knowledge and prep time?



Because OP clearly states basic knowledge _on the wizards_, not on Hogwarts. That and Hogwarts' location isn't exactly 'basic knowledge' either. Then there's the magic that simply makes you overlook Hogwarts... But none of that matters since the building itself is apparently excluded.


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## shade0180 (May 17, 2013)

Oh well, Even if that is included He has dealt with illusion in the past. so he should be able to find it. He did have a record of finding a planet.


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## Shiorin (May 17, 2013)

Batman has a one-night stand with Zatanna and then comes back with magical godmode.

If it worked against Circe...


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## familyparka (May 17, 2013)

Entirely on topic

Now, let us not forget the fact that spell barriers lifted in Hogwarts can and will be lifted in any other place, only that with a smaller range the less wizards help doing it. But still, the "basic combination to vaporize people" will be there.

_Protego Maxima. Fianto Duri. Repello Inimicum. Salvio hexia. Protego totalum. Repello Muggletum. Muffliato._

Those should do pretty good against the B-boy.
I don't see him finding them in scenario 2 because of the muggle repelling charm.
He'll find a way in scenario 3 without a doubt though.


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## Super Asian (May 17, 2013)

Seems I may have underestimated Bats.  Edited 3rd and 2nd scenario, added a bonus. Not sure how much it will help though.

Also, yes, this is just those related to the school, not the building itself. My bad, should have clarified.



shade0180 said:


> Is the batcave standard gear?  S2 and S3 is rape.



I'm assuming he stomps with it, so no.


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## Linkofone (May 17, 2013)

Expelsword said:


> How does Batman counter magic?




*Spoiler*: __


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## Saitomaru (May 17, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Oh well, Even if that is included He has dealt with illusion in the past. so he should be able to find it.



And...?



> He did have a record of finding a planet.



How does finding a planet equate to finding something that can actively repel non-wizards?


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## familyparka (May 17, 2013)

On Bonus scenario, do you mean only Voldy + Death Eaters? Or do we count Dementors, Giants, etc...?


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## Glued (May 17, 2013)

Circe can turn every male in dc minus Plastic and Martian Manhunter into an animal
Turn Superman into a pseudo-doomsday
Create hundreds of illusions in a second
Bypass Wonder Woman's lasso and mess with her mind
Mind control Black Adam
Create magical barriers too strong for Wonder Girl
Create magical barriers too strong for aquaman
Physcially amp herself up via magic to be Wonder Woman's equal
Reduce Hermes into Ash
Resurrect Medusa

How did Batman defeat her?



Shiorin said:


> Batman has a one-night stand with Zatanna and then comes back with magical godmode.
> 
> If it worked against Circe...


EXplain this


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## Tacocat (May 17, 2013)

I'll see your GL Bats and raise you a Blue Lantern Flash


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## familyparka (May 17, 2013)

SuperTacocat said:


> I'll see your GL Bats and raise you a Blue Lantern Flash



I see your BL Flash, and raise to a White Lantern Flash


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## Tacocat (May 17, 2013)

Royal Flash Flush


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## B Rabbit (May 17, 2013)

Batman should be able to take all the scenerios.


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## familyparka (May 17, 2013)

^ This guy 

OP set, that's all I'm gonna say


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## Huey Freeman (May 17, 2013)

Batman countered and shut down Circe (skyfather magical being ) magic with a spell he was thought/given by Zatanna 

Zatanna is apart of his backstory remember he learned his escape tricks and was introduce to magic by her Father. Both of which is far above anyone in Harry Potter verse.


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## Huey Freeman (May 17, 2013)

Ben Grimm said:


> Circe can turn every male in dc minus Plastic and Martian Manhunter into an animal
> Turn Superman into a pseudo-doomsday
> Create hundreds of illusions in a second
> Bypass Wonder Woman's lasso and mess with her mind
> ...



He was given a spell by Zatanna. He got close to Circe and used the spell and it shut down her powers completely. Easy like that.


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## Saitomaru (May 17, 2013)

Ben Grimm said:


> Circe can turn every male in dc minus Plastic and Martian Manhunter into an animal
> Turn Superman into a pseudo-doomsday
> Create hundreds of illusions in a second
> Bypass Wonder Woman's lasso and mess with her mind
> ...



Bad writing


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## Shiorin (May 17, 2013)

Ben Grimm said:


> How did Batman defeat her?


I don't usually do this, but just for you:



So given that he just usurped a goddess-level sorceress, I'm sure Zee can teach Bats a few tricks against Hogwarts.


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## Poxbox (May 18, 2013)

There are a few ways to go about this feat.
1) (apparently favored by some here) It's totally legit. Batman is a Skyfather level wizard.
2) It's a showcase example of SMvsFL
3) He is applying someone elses power in a one-time kind of deal (implied by him mentioning the questionable origin of the words, implying that the power is only in the words themselves and the fact that so clearly overpowering Circe would take someone stronger than Zatanna and Zatannas spells are if I'm not mistaken always in a human language only backwards)
4) He is somehow applying Zatannas magic and that is enough to overpower Circe.


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## Huey Freeman (May 18, 2013)

It's no different than Supes getting rid of Mxy by making him say his name backwards. It's basically some special spell Zatanna had to dig deep to find and when said invoke some great power .


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## Poxbox (May 18, 2013)

Exiling Mxy is exploiting a specific weakness using only the power of wit, which Supes occasionally displays.

While I disagree with the comparison, I do agree with the "invoking of some great power". That's pretty much option 3. Making clear that it is a last resort (not a problem under BL), not necessarily repeatable and it doesn't stem from Batmans own powerset.

On top of that it undoubtedly required outside help, which he doesn't get in the OBD. But it has been noted from the start that in such a case he would get outside help, if allowed.

The other mentioned part (training by Zatannas father) might work here though. If he is able to cast magic spells of his own, the muggle filter should no longer work on him.


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## Shiorin (May 18, 2013)

Poxbox said:


> The other mentioned part (training by Zatannas father) might work here though. If he is able to cast magic spells of his own, the muggle filter should no longer work on him.


No, he is not a _Homo magi_ as such if we extrapolate the muggle/wizard dichotomy in HPverse. I agree that whatever magic feats he has are the invoking of outside powers.


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## shade0180 (May 18, 2013)

Why not? He has shown to have the knowledge and ability to use magic on his own.


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## Glued (May 18, 2013)

If he can use a spell to nullify Circe's magic, than Batman is no longer peak human.
Not even the green lantern ring, Kyle's ring, could stop Circe's magic.

If Batman can actually do that to Circe, than  he must be a powerful sorcerer himself.

This is like Tefe Holland defeating The Word. Only difference is that Tefe is a powerful flesh elemental and spiritual daughter of Swamp Thing.

I hope Zatanna is kind enough to give this spell to Diana.


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## Huey Freeman (May 18, 2013)

I like to read where in DC does it say you need to be a powerful wizard to invoke greater power ?


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## Saitomaru (May 18, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Why not? He has shown to have the knowledge and ability to use magic on his own.



Don't know, I thought there was more to being a wizard than just being able to use magic. I thought they were innately different than muggles. Even Squibs are different than muggles, and they can't really/can barely use magic.


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## TehChron (May 18, 2013)

Im...yeah.

Im not seeing how the HP cast stops Bats when he hangs with Magic users absurdly beyond their pay grade.

Bats with prep gets the Insider Suit...and that seriously just destroys them.


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## Saitomaru (May 18, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Im...yeah.
> 
> Im not seeing how the HP cast stops Bats when he hangs with Magic users absurdly beyond their pay grade.



He doesn't 'hang with' those magic users. But yeah, Batman destroys the HP cast.


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## Huey Freeman (May 18, 2013)

It's funny if I show you Luthor who absolutely dismiss magic all together stop a powerful magic spell from a top tier Sorceress with a simple artifact he looked up and bought you all would be like. "That's a legit feat, totally not bad writing."

However the moment Bats does it the tons of nay saying.


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## Glued (May 18, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> I like to read where in DC does it say you need to be a powerful wizard to invoke greater power ?



Then why hasn't he used this spell against Etrigan, Morrigan Le Fey or Faust?


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## Glued (May 18, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> It's funny if I show you Luthor who absolutely dismiss magic all together stop a powerful magic spell from a top tier Sorceress with a simple artifact he looked up and bought you all would be like. "That's a legit feat, totally not bad writing."
> 
> However the moment Bats does it the tons of nay saying.



Because that would be the power of the item, not Luthor himself.


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## Felrow (May 18, 2013)

in scenario 1 batman gets stomped, in a random encounter he can't really beat 2nd most powerful wizard in HP along with hundreds of other good magicians.
Scenario 2 and 3 depend on whether batman has access to his resources, he can't beat everyone in HP with a week of prep, if he can access his suits, justice league robots, boom tube, etc...then he might pull off a win (though it's going to be hard)


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## Huey Freeman (May 18, 2013)

Ben Grimm said:


> Because that would be the power of the item, not Luthor himself.



So why can't you believe its the power of the spell? As for the reason why he didn't use it again the same reason Supes forgets he has super speed or cold breath. DC has continuity issues.


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## familyparka (May 18, 2013)

familyparka said:


> On Bonus scenario, do you mean only Voldy + Death Eaters? Or do we count Dementors, Giants, etc...?



I love how OP ignored this ._.


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## Glued (May 18, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> So why can't you believe its the power of the spell? As for the reason why he didn't use it again the same reason Supes forgets he has super speed or cold breath. DC has continuity issues.



Because Orm Marius couldn't use a spell unless he has his staff. Ocean Master had to make a deal with Neron to use magic. At a price his soul became bound to his staff. If he is separated, it will cause him pain.

Because Kid Devil, to get his magical powers, had to make a deal with Neron.

Because to create a portal through time, Tempest needed Darkseid's power. Tempests magic has its limits.

Tempest spent years to learn magic in another dimension with Atlan.

Magic in the DC universe generally comes at a price. A spell so powerful that it can nullify Circe needs to have a price. This how non-Homo Magi in DC can use magic. Also for those that are gifted, it takes years to learn magic. Even if you do learn it, you still have limits. 

If Zatanna has a spell this powerful, why hasn't she ever used it?


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## Super Asian (May 18, 2013)

familyparka said:


> I love how OP ignored this ._.



I'M SORRY ;A;

Everything with the exception of the Dementors, since I'm not sure how a Patronus equivalent could be done without actual magic. Unless Batman's done something similar? -needs to catch up-


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## Paranoid Android (May 18, 2013)

lol no chance for batman in any scenario... even if u restrict the magic barriers that stop muggles from being sane when anywhere near the area. One low tier defensive spell from a first year (i.e. petrificus totalus from hermione on Neville in Philosopher's Stone) is GG, let alone the professors and the most talented students. Also, due to lack of magical defense on the part of batman, people fighting him dont even have to use spells where aiming is necessary at all, negating any physical advantage such as reaction time that batman has. How is this fair?


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## Shiorin (May 18, 2013)

Ben Grimm said:


> *snip*


She's taught Superman before as well. So you can either trade your soul to learn magic, or you can just get Zee to teach you. Obviously those guys couldn't do the latter, since it seems like she's a bit of a superhero gold digger.


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## U mad bro (May 18, 2013)

Batman has shitted on magicians of higher quality casually with standard gear. I am afraid this is a rape. Especially considering you can probably argue a normal special forces team can probably rape a good portion of Hogwarts.


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## Huey Freeman (May 18, 2013)

Not to mention Bats is fast enough to react before they can even say a spell.


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## Saitomaru (May 18, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Batman has shitted on magicians of higher quality casually with standard gear. I am afraid this is a rape. *Especially considering you can probably argue a normal special forces team can probably rape a good portion of Hogwarts.*



Are you sure? The Seals vs Hogwarts thread says differently...


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Are you sure? The Seals vs Hogwarts thread says differently...



Sounds like a thread where people don't know what they are talking about. A seal team has access to a lot of shit. Real life tech and weaponry is starting to push sci fi territory.  Some crap we can't even use because it is inhumane. Hogwarts is full of civilians who have normal reflexes outside of their magical powers. The only threat is the ghosts. Also the building can be argued simply because it was prepped out in defense.


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Are you sure? The Seals vs Hogwarts thread says differently...



Sounds like a thread where people don't know what they are talking about imo. A seal team has access to a lot of shit. Real life tech ,and weaponry is starting to push sci fi territory.  Some crap we can't even use because it is inhumane. Hogwarts is full of civilians who have normal reflexes outside of their magical powers. The only threat is the ghosts.


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## Poxbox (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Sounds like a thread where people don't know what they are talking about. A seal team has access to a lot of shit. Real life tech and weaponry is starting to push sci fi territory.  Some crap we can't even use because it is inhumane. Hogwarts is full of civilians who have normal reflexes outside of their magical powers. The only threat is the ghosts. *Also the building can be argued simply because it was prepped out in defense.*


Which is exactly what happened.


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

Thing is if it became open warfare and they have knowledge they can actually just level the whole area.... From outside of hogwarts in a control room.... By just pushing a button. The spell hides and possibly stop detonations on the inside of the area. But we have weapons that can land from the outside and still make it go bye bye. That ir biological warfare. The world has sick crap. People just tune it out nowadays because no one is using them.


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## familyparka (May 19, 2013)

Clearly these two new guys know much more than anyone else who participated in that thread. Please, everyone, stop whatever the fuck you are doing to praise your new gods.


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## Tacocat (May 19, 2013)

Paranoid Android said:


> lol no chance for batman in any scenario... even if u restrict the magic barriers that stop muggles from being sane when anywhere near the area. One low tier defensive spell from a first year (i.e. petrificus totalus from hermione on Neville in Philosopher's Stone) is GG, let alone the professors and the most talented students. Also, due to lack of magical defense on the part of batman, people fighting him dont even have to use spells where aiming is necessary at all, negating any physical advantage such as reaction time that batman has. How is this fair?






ck


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## familyparka (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> *Sounds like a thread where people don't know what they are talking about imo*. A seal team has access to a lot of shit. Real life tech ,and weaponry is starting to push sci fi territory.  Some crap we can't even use because it is inhumane. *Hogwarts is full of civilians who have normal reflexes* outside of their magical powers. The only threat is the ghosts.



Listen up people, this guy knows what he is talking about


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## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

. Those Civilian handle mythical creatures on daily basis... Then you have guys that can follow the snitch. Right they are Normal.  

ck


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## Saitomaru (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Sounds like a thread where people don't know what they are talking about.



Why? Because you disagree with them?



> A seal team has access to a lot of shit.



But not as much shit as you probably think.



> Real life tech and weaponry is starting to push sci fi territory.



Bullshit. You need to stop watching so many movies.



> Some crap we can't even use because it is inhumane.



That's nothing new and it doesn't really give them any advantage against a group of people who can do things that are even more inhumane.



> Hogwarts is full of civilians who have normal reflexes outside of their magical powers.



Heh



> Also the building can be argued simply because it was prepped out in defense.



So you're saying Hogwarts loses its longstanding defenses in matches simply because those defenses were placed before the match starts? I don't think that's how it works.



U mad bro said:


> Thing is if it became open warfare and they have knowledge they can actually just level the whole area....



Who says they have knowledge? And the only way knowledge is helping them is if they get knowledge and prep and Hogwarts gets none.



> From outside of hogwarts in a control room.... By just pushing a button.



You've been watching too many movies.



> The spell hides and possibly stop detonations on the inside of the area. But we have weapons that can land from the outside and still make it go bye bye.



_We_? Who's we? Also, you're assuming the SEALs get something (knowledge and prep) and Hogwarts doesn't.



> That ir biological warfare.



Oh no, here goes a cloud of bad. Too bad we can't do stuff like fly/teleport away...



> The world has sick crap. People just tune it out nowadays because no one is using them.



Yeah, and the wizarding world has even worse 'sick crap'.


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> . Those Civilian handle mythical creatures on daily basis... Then you have guys that can follow the snitch. Right they are Normal.
> 
> ck



How fast is a snitch.


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## familyparka (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> How fast is a snitch.



"The Golden Snitch moves as fast as a lightning bolt, which coincidentally is its name in Danish: Det Gyldne Lyn, which means The Golden Lightning."


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Why? Because you disagree with them?


Nope because I know both sides. No I don't mean from COD.





> But not as much shit as you probably think.


 
Depends on the unit and mission. If it is serious enough they get full access. 


> Bullshit. You need to stop watching so many movies.


Mach 15 railgun was just tested not to long ago........


> That's nothing new and it doesn't really give them any advantage against a group of people who can do things that are even more inhumane.


What point a stick that barely performs spells better than a stage magiciam




> Heh


They just have magical abilities. Not above normal reflexes.If so I would like to know when was this referenced.




> So you're saying Hogwarts loses its longstanding defenses in matches simply because those defenses were placed before the match starts? I don't think that's how it works.


They can keep it. Just proves my point. That means they can't do shit unless they are hiding in a fortress laced in hundreds of years of spells. That is the very definition of prep,




> Who says they have knowledge? And the only way knowledge is helping them is if they get knowledge and prep and Hogwarts gets none.


That is stupid for several reasons. One that means the wizards have to either take the field down or go to the seal team. Both scenarios give them access. Two if they can't find the base the castle they would send in a strike team and continuously bomb the area. 


You've been watching too many movies.



_We_? Who's we? Also, you're assuming the SEALs get something (knowledge and prep) and Hogwarts doesn't.





> Oh no, here goes a cloud of bad. Too bad we can't do stuff like fly/teleport away...


Yeah they can run from a strike that can light up into mountain ranges. Without Knowledge as you pointed out.


> Yeah, and the wizarding world has even worse 'sick crap'.


Only in your childhood memories.Reality is worse than a childrens book. Way worse.


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## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

> Etymology
> The Golden Snitch moves as fast as a lightning bolt, which coincidentally is its name in Danish, Det Gyldne Lyn, which means The Golden Lightning..



Anyway ninja'd


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

familyparka said:


> "The Golden Snitch moves as fast as a lightning bolt, which coincidentally is its name in Danish: Det Gyldne Lyn, which means The Golden Lightning."



Sounds like some outside non canon material the author produced after the fact. Also sounds like an outlier. They have too many traits  that goes against Harry  having lightning level reaction speed.


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## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

Outlier because you don't like it.


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

Nope outlier because nowhere in the book has he shown that type of reaction speed. The story hass to support it.


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## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

Are you sure?


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## Super Asian (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Sounds like some outside non canon material the author produced after the fact. Also sounds like an outlier. They have too many traits  that goes against Harry  having lightning level reaction speed.



Pottermore is canon, actually. It's mainly things that Rowling intended to put into the actual books but simply never had a chance to.

And with only book feats, Firebolts move at least 150mph, and Snitches shouldn't be much slower.


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

Super Asian said:


> Pottermore is canon, actually. It's mainly things that Rowling intended to put into the actual books but simply never had a chance to.
> 
> And with only book feats, Firebolts move at least* 150mph*, and Snitches shouldn't be much slower.



Writers can add whatever is on their mind and say that was so. But the story says differently. If  a firebolt moves at 150 mph that is nowhere near the speed lightning. Rowling made her own statement untrue the minute she put a number on it.

Even if it is true that doesn't mean Harry has reaction speed at that level. The brooms do the majority of the work. Achieving a speed to where he can catch the snitch. He still needed quick reflexes though because the snitch is a smaller object moving at those speeds. But it still nowhere near the actual speed of the snitch. Then add to the fact most wizards don't have Harry reaction speed.


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## familyparka (May 19, 2013)

Super Asian said:


> Pottermore is canon, actually. It's mainly things that Rowling intended to put into the actual books but simply never had a chance to.
> 
> And with only book feats, Firebolts move at least 150mph, and Snitches shouldn't be much slower.



Pottermore is 100% canon.

And Snitches can blitz Firebolts.


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## TehChron (May 19, 2013)

familyparka said:


> Pottermore is 100% canon.
> 
> And Snitches can blitz Firebolts.



Then how in god's name does a Seeker ever get a chance to intercept one?

Let alone keep up with one with such an ungodly speed disparity between the Snitch and even top of the line Broomsticks?

Sounds like bullshit to me


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## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

This basically just a case of movement speed being slower than reaction speed which is perfectly normal in fiction.


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## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

No it's not characters have other reference materials besides some random thought from a writer. A good one would be it actually happening in the story. lol


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## TehChron (May 19, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> This basically just a case of movement speed being slower than reaction speed which is perfectly normal in fiction.



So what you're saying is that Harry has a faceplanting speed in excess of Mach 30,000? 

Jesus Christ the KE involved in absorbing that and not creating a massive crater on the ground of the Quidditch Arena...:amazed


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## Super Asian (May 19, 2013)

TehChron said:


> So what you're saying is that Harry has a faceplanting speed in excess of Mach 30,000?
> 
> Jesus Christ the KE involved in absorbing that and not creating a massive crater on the ground of the Quidditch Arena...:amazed



Magic.


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## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

Fiction . same thing as  Quicksilver running at 50%c without any sonic boom or causing a tidal wave.


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## Saitomaru (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Nope because I know both sides. No I don't mean from COD.



Sure you do.



> Depends on the unit and mission. If it is serious enough they get full access.



Full access to what? There are limits to what different parts of the US military gets access to. If the mission is so bad that it exceeds the capabilities of one branch the military doesn't just throw more powerful equipment at them. They send out members of other branches. In a match between SEALs and HP this wouldn't be possible. So there'd be a limit to their capabilities, weaponry, etc. It'd be even worse if CIS covers typical military procedures.



> Mach 15 railgun was just tested not to long ago........



Last I heard Railguns were still inefficient and unused because of this.



> What point a stick that barely performs spells better than a stage magiciam



You claimed to know both sides and then make a comment like this... You've got to be joking. Insta-death spell says hi, let's see David Copperfield do that.



> They just have magical abilities. Not above normal reflexes.If so I would like to know when was this referenced.



Heh.



> They can keep it. Just proves my point. That means they can't do shit unless they are hiding in a fortress laced in hundreds of years of spells. That is the very definition of prep,



Doesn't matter. They're longstanding enchantments, do magical relics suddenly lose their enchantments because they were placed way before the match starts (i.e- in canon).



> That is stupid for several reasons. One that means the wizards have to either take the field down or go to the seal team. Both scenarios give them access. Two if they can't find the base the castle they would send in a strike team and continuously bomb the area.


 
That requires knowledge. Otherwise they'd have no idea where Hogwarts' general area is.



> Yeah they can run from a strike that can light up into mountain ranges. Without Knowledge as you pointed out.



They see jets coming, they apparate away. That is assuming the SEALs even figure out where to bomb.



> Only in your childhood memories.Reality is worse than a childrens book. Way worse.



Seems like you know little to nothing about the HPverse.



U mad bro said:


> Sounds like some outside non canon material the author produced after the fact. Also sounds like an outlier. *They have too many traits  that goes against Harry  having lightning level reaction speed*.



What traits? Anyway, I'm not going to argue for him having Lightning reactions, but I remember people saying that JKR claimed that Wizards have superhuman reactions. Also, since when does it being after the fact matter? Last I checked WoG is and always has been canon barring major discrepancies (if that). If Rowling says all Wizards are part Lizard its canon.



U mad bro said:


> Nope outlier because nowhere in the book has he shown that type of reaction speed. The story hass to support it.



Outlier? Why not just high-end feat? I'm not sure how these are handled since on one hand I've seen people say high-end feats trump low-end feats and on the other I've seen people claim the opposite. So I'll leave that alone.



U mad bro said:


> Writers can add whatever is on their mind and say that was so. But the story says differently. If  a firebolt moves at 150 mph that is nowhere near the speed lightning. Rowling made her own statement untrue the minute she put a number on it.
> 
> Even if it is true that doesn't mean Harry has reaction speed at that level. The brooms do the majority of the work. Achieving a speed to where he can catch the snitch. He still needed quick reflexes though because the snitch is a smaller object moving at those speeds. But it still nowhere near the actual speed of the snitch. Then add to the fact most wizards don't have Harry reaction speed.





U mad bro said:


> No it's not characters have other reference materials besides some random thought from a writer. A good one would be it actually happening in the story. lol



WoG is valid canon last I checked.



> So what you're saying is that Harry has a faceplanting speed in excess of Mach 30,000?
> 
> Jesus Christ the KE involved in absorbing that and not creating a massive crater on the ground of the Quidditch Arena...



You should know by now that fiction hardly ever takes these things into consideration.


----------



## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Sure you do.


pfft





> Full access to what? There are limits to what different parts of the US military gets access to. If the mission is so bad that it exceeds the capabilities of one branch the military doesn't just throw more powerful equipment at them. They send out members of other branches. In a match between SEALs and HP this wouldn't be possible. So there'd be a limit to their capabilities, weaponry, etc. It'd be even worse if CIS covers typical military procedures.



The seals had access to prototype stealth helicopters. You know the ones they took out the number 1 most wanted with. The one where it was big deal when one crashed. The helicopters that didn't even exist officially yet. That right there tells you what they have access to. The seals are arguably the number 1 special forces unit the usa has to offer.  Most of our top agencies recruit from their ranks. You are making assumptions.



> Last I heard Railguns were still inefficient and unused because of this.


Hence why I said I our technology is going into sci fi territory. Not that it was.



> You claimed to know both sides and then make a comment like this... You've got to be joking. Insta-death spell says hi, let's see David Copperfield do that.


Lol are you serious a spell takes longer than a bullet to the face. Get out here. Let me remind you that wand motions also come into play. A gun is point and shoot. Like I said fantasy.








> Doesn't matter. They're longstanding enchantments, do magical relics suddenly lose their enchantments because they were placed way before the match starts (i.e- in canon).



Actually it matters a lot. That says that on equal grounds they are massively weaker and vulnerable



> That requires knowledge. Otherwise they'd have no idea where Hogwarts' general area is.


 Where are they fight then if they have no clue of the area. If they are fighting at Hogwarts that means they are already beyond the magic. If not that means they have to stay in spell because the seals can't access the area. HP doesn't have long range combat spells. So no matter what you say about that the spell is garbage for the purpose of the match.





> They see jets coming, they apparate away. That is assuming the SEALs even figure out where to bomb.


So now they have radar. I never knew.



> Seems like you know little to nothing about the HPverse.


I know a lot from the canon known as the books. The books tell me wizards would get raped. Ghost and dementors are the only force in the series that are a threat. 

Though I wonder if a dementor can stand the flash of a mushroom cloud.




> What traits? Anyway, I'm not going to argue for him having Lightning reactions, but I remember people saying that JKR claimed that Wizards have superhuman reactions. Also, since when does it being after the fact matter? Last I checked WoG is and always has been canon barring major discrepancies (if that). If Rowling says all Wizards are part Lizard its canon.


Only in the fans mind. It makes no sense whatsoever to acknowledge something like HP having lightning time reflexes or superhuman reflexes for that matter. The story itself contradicts that a lot. I mean a lot. The wizards are basically normal beings who use magic instead of tech. The magic they use doesn't seem more impressive than our technology. Except for a few spells. A killing curse is not one of them. Nor is their torture curse.




> Outlier? Why not just high-end feat? I'm not sure how these are handled since on one hand I've seen people say high-end feats trump low-end feats and on the other I've seen people claim the opposite. So I'll leave that alone.



Hp has lightning time reactions you know how crazy that sounds. Even a hardcore fan should know better.





> WoG is valid canon last I checked.


This is a debate section everything can be debated.




> You should know by now that fiction hardly ever takes these things into consideration.


I know that but we are debating it. So everything is fair game.


----------



## Super Asian (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> The seals had access to prototype stealth helicopters. You know the ones they took out the number 1 most wanted with. The one where it was big deal when one crashed. The helicopters that didn't even exist officially yet. That right there tells you what they have access to. The seals are arguably the number 1 special forces unit the usa has to offer.  Most of our top agencies recruit from their ranks. You are making assumptions.



Yet you still can't assume what else the seals may have either.





> Lol are you serious a spell takes longer than a bullet to the face. Get out here. Let me remind you that wand motions also come into play. A gun is point and shoot. Like I said fantasy.




Wizards have clothes that emulate passive shielding, a charm which can block spells that can destroy small houses.





> Actually it matters a lot. That says that on equal grounds they are massively weaker and vulnerable



Not necessarily. With muggle technology, yes, but older magic doesn't mean it's any worse. The fact remains that all electronics are blocked within the area, and the area itself probably has similar enchantments to those that were cast during the Quidditch World Cup (Any muggles that come close suddenly realise a reason as not to enter the area over this charm's protection, for example, by "remembering" that they had an urgent appointment somewhere else)



> Where are they fight then if they have no clue of the area. If they are fighting at Hogwarts that means they are already beyond the magic. If not that means they have to stay in spell because the seals can't access the area. HP doesn't have long range combat spells. So no matter what you say about that the spell is garbage for the purpose of the match.



I'm not sure I understand the first part of the question? As for long range combat spells, intercontinental apparation implies that a decently skilled wizard could apparate to the base of operations and generally screw up military movements.




> So now they have radar. I never knew.



What?




> I know a lot from the canon known as the books. The books tell me wizards would get raped. Ghost and dementors are the only force in the series that are a threat.
> 
> Though I wonder if a dementor can stand the flash of a mushroom cloud.



Your average, low tier wizard maybe. The stronger ones are coming out on top.

It may be. Nothing in the books indicates anything other than a Patronus can drive them away, though tanking a nuke might be NFL.
Avada Kedavra could probably kill them, given that they _are_ living things.




> Only in the fans mind. It makes no sense whatsoever to acknowledge something like HP having lightning time reflexes or superhuman reflexes for that matter. The story itself contradicts that a lot. I mean a lot. The wizards are basically normal beings who use magic instead of tech. The magic they use doesn't seem more impressive than our technology. Except for a few spells. A killing curse is not one of them. Nor is their torture curse.



Apparation, Imperio, repeat and rinse. gg.





> Hp has lightning time reactions you know how crazy that sounds. Even a hardcore fan should know better.



I'll admit that it does seem like an outlier.




> This is a debate section everything can be debated.



Yes, but the general consensus is that Word of God is correct when it can be backed up. If the rest of her information is accurate and/or alright, then it should at least be taken into account.



> I know that but we are debating it. So everything is fair game.


I'll concede here.


----------



## Poxbox (May 19, 2013)

@umadbro
Ignoring common tropes may be "fair game" but it's neither a sign of debating strength nor does it help support your argument.
If there is an official canon policy then there is not much point in debating it. Your opinion does not override official policy.
There is a difference between the SEALs and DEVGRU. Someone with an inside understanding of US military should know this.

And to top this shitpile off: This is not SEALs vs Hogwarts. This is Hogwarts inhabitants vs Batman. Feel free to contribute or GTFO.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2013)

Are people really saying that Harry Potter wizards have lightning speed reactions?


----------



## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

Just saying They have superhuman.


----------



## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

[





Super Asian said:


> Yet you still can't assume what else the seals may have either


Calling in a airstrike and high grade tech is a reasonable conclusion. A 








> Wizards have clothes that emulate passive shielding, a charm which can block spells that can destroy small houses.


Yet a small house doesn't equate to a missile barrage capable of leveling landscape. Nor do most wizards specifically kids and teachers at Hogwarts walk around with such clothing.





> Not necessarily. With muggle technology, yes, but older magic doesn't mean it's any worse. The fact remains that all electronics are blocked within the area, and the area itself probably has similar enchantments to those that were cast during the Quidditch World Cup (Any muggles that come close suddenly realise a reason as not to enter the area over this charm's protection, for example, by "remembering" that they had an urgent appointment somewhere else)


Which would go back to nobody fighting inside of Hogwarts. They have no long range capabilities. The seals can't go there. That means the wizards either hide or go to them. Going to them means a sniper. Hiding means the whole area gets removed from a map.





> I'm not sure I understand the first part of the question? As for long range combat spells, intercontinental apparation implies that a decently skilled wizard could apparate to the base of operations and generally screw up military movements.


If they had knowledge even with knowledge most Hp wizards are ignorant of Muggle society. Very few can blend in if discovered. 





> What?



I am making fun because HP has no detection system of any kind. At least long range. Meaning they have no clue about objects like incoming missiles.



> Your average, low tier wizard maybe. The stronger ones are coming out on top.


The stronger ones you mean Voldemort and Dumbledore right.


> It may be. Nothing in the books indicates anything other than a Patronus can drive them away, though tanking a nuke might be NFL.Avada Kedavra could probably kill them, given that they _are_ living things.


Light in general seem to have an effect on them. They just have the ability to remove it.






> Apparation, Imperio, repeat and rinse. gg.



Decoy, c4 ,  decoy, sniper, decoy, gatling. GG




> I'll admit that it does seem like an outlier.


You are a smart man.





> Yes, but the general consensus is that Word of God is correct when it can be backed up. If the rest of her information is accurate and/or alright, then it should at least be taken into account.


That is what I said. The lightning timing falls into the category of things you debate.




> I'll concede here.


smart man again.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Just saying They have superhuman.


This is never was denied by me. 
But lightning time reaction is just....


----------



## U mad bro (May 19, 2013)

Poxbox said:


> @umadbro
> Ignoring common tropes may be "fair game" but it's neither a sign of debating strength nor does it help support your argument.
> If there is an official canon policy then there is not much point in debating it. Your opinion does not override official policy.
> There is a difference between the SEALs and DEVGRU. Someone with an inside understanding of US military should know this.
> ...



First of all I nothing is being ignored it is being debated.

Secondly calling something an outlier and actually having proof of it being a outlier is a common thing. That is called debating not post in a harry potter fanclub thread.

They are practically one and the same. DEVGRU is just the highest level and the name of the department. To the point it is not associated with normal operations. The training is still the same. They operate with better weapons and secrecy. But at the end of the day they are still called seals.

Lastly this thread was shit from the go batman rapes.


----------



## Saitomaru (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> The seals had access to prototype stealth helicopters. You know the ones they took out the number 1 most wanted with. The one where it was big deal when one crashed. The helicopters that didn't even exist officially yet. That right there tells you what they have access to. The seals are arguably the number 1 special forces unit the usa has to offer.  Most of our top agencies recruit from their ranks. You are making assumptions.



And having access to a stealth chopper suddenly means they have access to tons of other over the top shit? You can only guess at what they have access to that the public has not been made aware of. And guessing doesn't count for shit.



> Hence why I said I our technology is going into sci fi territory. Not that it was.



Depends on your definition of sci fi. A railgun isn't exactly super futuristic or anything. And the principle behind it is rather old.



> Lol are you serious a spell takes longer than a bullet to the face. Get out here. Let me remind you that wand motions also come into play. A gun is point and shoot. Like I said fantasy.



Can you prove that claim? No, I'm not claiming that spells are faster than bullets, but I'm not claiming the opposite either.



> Actually it matters a lot. That says that on equal grounds they are massively weaker and vulnerable



By equal ground do you mean wizards without their magic? Because if they get their wands they could always just apparate to a safer location (i.e-behind their opposition) and transfigure their opponent into a cup or something.



> Where are they fight then if they have no clue of the area. If they are fighting at Hogwarts that means they are already beyond the magic. If not that means they have to stay in spell because the seals can't access the area. HP doesn't have long range combat spells. So no matter what you say about that the spell is garbage for the purpose of the match.



In the SEALs thread (where this conversation should be) if my memory is correct it was just 'on earth' leaving the SEALs the difficult task of locating Hogwarts.



> So now they have radar. I never knew.



Yes, because radar is TOTALLY needed to just see something flying towards your current location... Yep.



> I know a lot from the canon known as the books. *The books tell me wizards would get raped*. Ghost and dementors are the only force in the series that are a threat.



Provide the in-canon source for this claim.



> Though I wonder if a dementor can stand the flash of a mushroom cloud.



Doubt it, not that it matters since the likelihood of SEALs getting access to such powerful weapons is slim to none.



> Only in the fans mind. *It makes no sense whatsoever to acknowledge something like HP having* lightning time reflexes *or superhuman reflexes for that matter.*



Explain.



> The story itself contradicts that a lot. I mean a lot. The wizards are basically normal beings who use magic instead of tech. The magic they use doesn't seem more impressive than our technology. Except for a few spells. A killing curse is not one of them. Nor is their torture curse.



Prove it.



> Hp has lightning time reactions you know how crazy that sounds. Even a hardcore fan should know better.



I agree, it sounds crazy. But that doesn't really matter if JKR WoG'd into canon.



> This is a debate section everything can be debated.



Then by all means argue to your heart's content. Just be aware that people are unlikely to take you seriously. Just like that guy who was arguing against pixels.



> I know that but we are debating it. So everything is fair game.



See above.



Louis Cyphre said:


> Are people really saying that Harry Potter wizards have lightning speed reactions?



Who knows...



> Secondly calling something an outlier and actually having proof of it being a outlier is a common thing. That is called debating not post in a harry potter fanclub thread.



If you have proof, provide it. Because as it stands you've done nothing but call something an outlier because it doesn't make sense to you.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2013)

The only place that I found this statement is in a wikia.


----------



## TehChron (May 19, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Fiction . same thing as  Quicksilver running at 50%c without any sonic boom or causing a tidal wave.



So much for Potterverses chances of surviving a Batkick to the face


----------



## Saitomaru (May 19, 2013)

TehChron said:


> So much for Potterverses chances of surviving a Batkick to the face



Nah, if that had been taken serious Batman might have broken his leg on their face.


----------



## familyparka (May 19, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> That is called debating not post in a harry potter fanclub thread.



U mad bro?


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 19, 2013)

HPverse certainly doesn't have bullet time reactions or anything close. Bats has Aim dodging and midend Bullet timing feats . He has a track record of hanging with bullet time opponents like Cassandra Cain. They will get a baterang to the face before they can even get a spell off.


----------



## TehChron (May 19, 2013)

Not the face.

The really obvious magic wands that theyre using to cast spells.

With the wizards disarmed, Bats will simply proceed to punch them half to death.


----------



## Tacocat (May 19, 2013)

Many skilled wizards can perform magic without the use of their wands, Dumbledore, Harry, and presumably several teachers being the most prominent.

That's not to say he won't still punch them half to death, though


----------



## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> HPverse certainly doesn't have bullet time reactions or anything close. Bats has Aim dodging and midend Bullet timing feats . He has a track record of hanging with bullet time opponents like Cassandra Cain. They will get a baterang to the face before they can even get a spell off.



Well There's no Gun in HP verse since They have anti-technology barrier in hogwart. But there are objects that has faster speed than a bullet that they react to.


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 19, 2013)

They still need to maintain eye contact.


----------



## Saitomaru (May 19, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Not the face.
> 
> The really obvious magic wands that theyre using to cast spells.
> 
> With the wizards disarmed, Bats will simply proceed to punch them half to death.



So... he's going to kick/disarm hundreds/thousands of wizards? All before even one of them manages to tag him with something? I'm just playing a little DA but wouldn't it be more logical to assume that Batman get's killed in S1? After all, it doesn't really matter if Batman is able to aim dodge bullets(well, the gunman's aim) when not all spells are as obvious as point and shoot.  for example.


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 19, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Well There's no Gun in HP verse since They have anti-technology barrier in hogwart. But their are object that has faster speed than a bullet that they react to.



Proof a golden snitch is faster than a bullet? It's faster than the eye can see which could be around 150mph.


----------



## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

WoG


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 19, 2013)

No he is going to throw a baterang that has explosive that can KO a class 60 into a crowd of wizards.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2013)

Are people really being serious about lightning reaction speed to Harry Potter wizards?
The only place that I can found that statement is


----------



## Poxbox (May 19, 2013)

The only reliable source I found is 


> The invention of the Golden Snitch is credited to the wizard Bowman Wright of Godric's Hollow. While Quidditch teams all over the country tried to find bird substitutes for the Snidget, Wright, who was a skilled metal-charmer, set himself to the task of creating a ball that mimicked the behaviour and flight patterns of the Snidget. That he succeeded perfectly is clear from the many rolls of parchment he left behind him on his death (now in the possession of a private collector), listing the orders that he had received from all over the country. The Golden Snitch, as Bowman called his invention, was a walnut-sized ball exactly the weight of a Snidget. Its silvery wings had rotational joints like the Snidget's, enabling it to change direction with the lightning speed and precision of its living model.


To me that sounds like hyperbole.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2013)

I forgot about this shit. 
And sounds like a hyperbole.


----------



## Super Asian (May 19, 2013)

It's clearly hyperbole, but it definitely implies reactions beyond that of a human.


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 19, 2013)

That is what we call a common saying like break a leg.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2013)

Super Asian said:


> It's clearly hyperbole, but it definitely implies reactions beyond that of a human.


This fact is never denied. Wizards has reactions beyond normal humans.
The only thing that is denied is wizards having lightning timing.


----------



## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

Well someone called them below peak human. 



> Originally Posted by *U mad bro*
> Sounds like a thread where people don't know what they are talking about imo. A seal team has access to a lot of shit. Real life tech ,and weaponry is starting to push sci fi territory. Some crap we can't even use because it is inhumane. *Hogwarts is full of civilians who have normal reflexes* outside of their magical powers. The only threat is the ghosts.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2013)

@Shade,
Pure bullshit.


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 19, 2013)

Bats has feats of bullet timing . Now I hadn't seen anything to suggest HPverse is anywhere near that.


----------



## TehChron (May 19, 2013)

I still have yet to see a serious argument for them tagging Bats.

This isnt a wide open plain or the RoST, Bats is one of the greatest ninjas in DC.
And DCs got a LOT of ninjas.


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 19, 2013)

Bats once dodged a sniper bullet by just hearing it after it was shot several blocks away. You know how fucking impossible that shit is. He also KO'd the sniper by throwing a baterang immediately after.


----------



## Poxbox (May 19, 2013)

TehChron said:


> I still have yet to see a serious argument for them tagging Bats.
> 
> This isnt a wide open plain or the RoST, Bats is one of the greatest ninjas in DC.
> And DCs got a LOT of ninjas.


It is also not a gauntlet. He is going up against a large group and the difference in speed is not enough to blitz them all. He needs to employ stealth combined with his reflexes to pull off a win.

Arguments for the Potterwin are basically: Magical shields against non-magic folk (although I doubt they would even erect one while IC, since they rarely consider muggles a serious danger), a lucky hit from lots of spells, spells that don't have to be directed at Bats and invisible slashing attacks (sectumsempra).

I still stand by my original post:


Poxbox said:


> S1 (no prep, no BL): Batman takes it 7/10. 3/10 someone manages to hit him with a spell and he is incapacitated.
> 
> S2 (unequal prep, no BL): Batman wins with lowtech equipment (Batarangs+K.O.gas). Outside of a BD match he would get outside help to negate the antitech magic.
> 
> S3 (unequal prep, BL): Horrible murderstomp for Batman with lowtech muggle weapons.


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 19, 2013)

They can't out prep a guy who device a plan to take out Zatanna and Dr. Fate.


----------



## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

I agree and did say Bats wins the prep Scenario and still has a chance in scenario 1. I just don't think Potter verse is below peak human


----------



## Saitomaru (May 19, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> They can't out prep a guy who device a plan to take out Zatanna and Dr. Fate.



Room of Requirement hax


----------



## B Rabbit (May 19, 2013)

Several things about Harry Potter are just statements.


----------



## Saitomaru (May 19, 2013)

Eminem said:


> Several things about Harry Potter are just statements.



Character statements or WoG?


----------



## shade0180 (May 19, 2013)

Considering HP verse is a book everything is a statement.


----------



## U mad bro (May 20, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> And having access to a stealth chopper suddenly means they have access to tons of other over the top shit? You can only guess at what they have access to that the public has not been made aware of. And guessing doesn't count for shit.


It means that have access to some of the best hardware. Also what over the top equipment did I name. Ordering in a air strike, plastic explosives that can level compounds, gatlings, and snipers. Equipment meant for war is clearly accessible. 


> Depends on your definition of sci fi. A railgun isn't exactly super futuristic or anything. And the principle behind it is rather old.


The theory is old but actually making one is something that is pretty recent. That is only example. Like the remote control bullet that  I shown you.



> Can you prove that claim? No, I'm not claiming that spells are faster than bullets, but I'm not claiming the opposite either.



Everything about their society as a whole goes against them being bullet timers. Their whole approach to fighting has been likened to fencing with swords. Nothing indicates even peak human reaction speed.



> By equal ground do you mean wizards without their magic? Because if they get their wands they could always just apparate to a safer location (i.e-behind their opposition) and transfigure their opponent into a cup or something.


 
No by equal grounds not on a battlefield they have enchanted for hundreds of years. Also what you are saying requires them to be faster than every opponent they face. Which is unlikely.



> In the SEALs thread (where this conversation should be) if my memory is correct it was just 'on earth' leaving the SEALs the difficult task of locating Hogwarts.


You keep mentioning this. Yet you are not process the thought that the fight takes place at Hogwarts. Meaning they would already be there at the start of the match. Making them already pass the enchantments.




> Yes, because radar is TOTALLY needed to just see something flying towards your current location... Yep.


So they are all just standing outside staring at the sky....yep that makes sense.




> Provide the in-canon source for this claim.


Soon as I see that wizards can dodge a 50 caliber.




> Doubt it, not that it matters since the likelihood of SEALs getting access to such powerful weapons is slim to none.


The access and detonation is dependent on the order they received. But the don't need a nuke. There are plenty of other explosives that generate extreme blasts that are not nukes.



> Explain.


I already explained it the books makes no mention of such speed. It is actually the burden of proof on your side to say otherwise.




> Prove it.


What is there to prove you can name most of the spells used in the story off the top of your head. Not that I will but what spell exactly is superior to modern tech. The best magic is probably healing.




> I agree, it sounds crazy. But that doesn't really matter if JKR WoG'd into canon.


Yeah no if such statements contradict the canon material which is the books. You can tell the writer go fuck themselves.



> Then by all means argue to your heart's content. Just be aware that people are unlikely to take you seriously. Just like that guy who was arguing against pixels.



I really don't care if people take me seriously. I know a thread where people are stuck in fan mode.





> If you have proof, provide it. Because as it stands you've done nothing but call something an outlier because it doesn't make sense to you.


The proof is 150 mph broom was keeping up with an object supposedly the speed of lightning. This was said in the beginning.





shade0180 said:


> Well someone called them below peak human.



prove otherwise.


----------



## Poxbox (May 20, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Everything about their society as a whole goes against them being bullet timers. Their whole approach to fighting has been likened to fencing with swords. Nothing indicates even peak human reaction speed.
> 
> No by equal grounds not on a battlefield they have enchanted for hundreds of years. ... Yet you are not process the thought that the fight takes place at Hogwarts. Meaning they would already be there at the start of the match. Making them already pass the enchantments.
> 
> The proof is 150 mph broom was keeping up with an object supposedly the speed of lightning. This was said in the beginning.


A fighting style being like "fencing with swords" says nothing about speed. (see Bleach or fucking Odin with the Odinsword)

Fighting at Hogwarts is definitely not even ground, but starting there does not help. The SEALs would only see remarkably uninteresting ruins.

We already went through that lightning stuff and it was agreed to be hyperbole. But even if it's hyperbolic, it clearly makes them faster than "normal human".


----------



## Saitomaru (May 20, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> It means that have access to some of the best hardware. Also what over the top equipment did I name. Ordering in a air strike, plastic explosives that can level compounds, gatlings, and snipers. Equipment meant for war is clearly accessible.



Prove it. Something being meant for war does not automatically give them access to everything you just listed. As I said earlier there are 'lines' that different branches and subgroups don't cross. If the threat is big enough the Govt will simply withdraw the SEALs and/or send in a different group(set of groups) to complete the mission. Not that any of that matters since without knowledge of Hogwarts' location they're next to useless.



> The theory is old but actually making one is something that is pretty recent. That is only example. Like the remote control bullet that  I shown you.



Depends on your definition of recent.



> Everything about their society as a whole goes against them being bullet timers. Their whole approach to fighting has been likened to fencing with swords. Nothing indicates even peak human reaction speed.



How does any of that convey a stance on their speed? That's like saying humans top out at X speed because they play video games. Wizards fire spells back and fourth at each other, its similar to a 1v1 gun fight. The biggest difference being magic's utility and versatility.



> No by equal grounds not on a battlefield they have enchanted for hundreds of years. Also what you are saying requires them to be faster than every opponent they face. Which is unlikely.



Why is it unlikely? SEAL #1 needs to point and pull the trigger Wizard #1 needs to wave/point/swish&flick/flick/etc his/her wand and say/think a spell. The end result of the SEAL's action is obvious, the wizard's is not. What if the wizard aim-dodges the SEAL?



> You keep mentioning this. Yet you are not process the thought that the fight takes place at Hogwarts. Meaning they would already be there at the start of the match. Making them already pass the enchantments.



Really now? Where was that stated? Oh yeah, it wasn't. Nice try though.



> So they are all just standing outside staring at the sky....yep that makes sense.



Didn't say everyone was. But if they're fighting SEALs why wouldn't they have at least one person on look out duty? Not that that even matters since the SEALs wouldn't know where to look. This shit was already covered in the other thread.



> Soon as I see that wizards can dodge a 50 caliber.



A gun isn't too useful when the gunman doesn't know where to shoot.



> The access and detonation is dependent on the order they received. But the don't need a nuke. There are plenty of other explosives that generate extreme blasts that are not nukes.



Can you prove the SEALs have access to these 'other explosives'?



> I already explained it the books makes no mention of such speed. It is actually the burden of proof on your side to say otherwise.



WoG says they have some measure of superhuman reflexes. That alone makes them faster than the SEALs allowing them to aim-dodge their gun fire OR just AK them before the SEALs get their shots off.



> What is there to prove you can name most of the spells used in the story off the top of your head. Not that I will but what spell exactly is superior to modern tech. The best magic is probably healing.



Most spells that are relevant to these kinds of threads surpass modern tech to some extent. And in some cases what they lack in over all DC they make up for in utility (I.e- Imperio).



> Yeah no if such statements contradict the canon material which is the books. You can tell the writer go fuck themselves.



And if no statements are made about their reflexes in the books how is it really contradicting anything? And if what you said is true how to retcons via author statements work?



> I really don't care if people take me seriously. I know a thread where people are stuck in fan mode.



Sure you do. I find it funny that you're assuming that arguing for HP instantly makes you fans. I didn't really like HP, I'm just not dumb enough to ignore such an obvious outcome (speaking on the SEALs vs HP thread, not this one).



> The proof is 150 mph broom was keeping up with an object supposedly the speed of lightning. This was said in the beginning.



Inconsistency 



> prove otherwise.



Author statement says lightning fast, that's obviously above peakhuman


----------



## TehChron (May 20, 2013)

Jesus Christ, get off the fucking nuts of the SEALS.

Theyre not even the world's most lethal Special Ops team, what they are, however, is the most adaptive.

And they're not adapting to magic being dropped on them out of nowhere.


----------



## U mad bro (May 20, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Prove it. Something being meant for war does not automatically give them access to everything you just listed. As I said earlier there are 'lines' that different branches and subgroups don't cross. If the threat is big enough the Govt will simply withdraw the SEALs and/or send in a different group(set of groups) to complete the mission. Not that any of that matters since without knowledge of Hogwarts' location they're next to useless.


What are you talking about. Their is nothing to prove everything I named they have used. Which is why I find that funny. Most of that is common knowledge. Seals deal with land, air, and sea they have access to all three.:Zaru






> How does any of that convey a stance on their speed? That's like saying humans top out at X speed because they play video games. Wizards fire spells back and fourth at each other, its similar to a 1v1 gun fight. The biggest difference being magic's utility and versatility.


 It gives you an idea of their world in general. Their world doesn't come across as superhuman only old and traditionalized.



> Why is it unlikely? SEAL #1 needs to point and pull the trigger Wizard #1 needs to wave/point/swish&flick/flick/etc his/her wand and say/think a spell. The end result of the SEAL's action is obvious, the wizard's is not. What if the wizard aim-dodges the SEAL?


Notice that you named several more movements than the for a wizard firing vs a gun trigger being pulled. Secondly you keep mentioning the wizards like they are all action heroes or something. That is definitely not the case. They rely or their magic not their physical stats. The quidditch players mainly being the exceptions.





> Really now? Where was that stated? Oh yeah, it wasn't. Nice try though.


You obviously not comprehending what is being said. If the match is set at Hogwarts that means they start at Hogwarts already. What you are talking about is  if the seals are coming for them not if them. Not a match using the school as a location.



> Didn't say everyone was. But if they're fighting SEALs why wouldn't they have at least one person on look out duty? Not that that even matters since the SEALs wouldn't know where to look. This shit was already covered in the other thread.


If they didn't know where to look why would they be fighting. Why would it be a match? Basically you are saying neither side would fight. But the basic principle of these matches would have the opponents aware of who they are fighting. So in the end the building doesn't even matter. They would still have to fight.






> Can you prove the SEALs have access to these 'other explosives'?


I didn't say they had access to it. I was talking about what can take out a dementor.


> WoG says they have some measure of superhuman reflexes. That alone makes them faster than the SEALs allowing them to aim-dodge their gun fire OR just AK them before the SEALs get their shots off.



Yep nope don't care what WOG has to say whoever the fuck that is. I know what the books say and it doesn't mention them with above human reflexes. The closest thing is Harry's athletic skills as a seeker.



> Most spells that are relevant to these kinds of threads surpass modern tech to some extent. And in some cases what they lack in over all DC they make up for in utility (I.e- Imperio).


Which is if they land the spell and come out in the opening. Unprotected. They hit one person with a spell the rest sprayed. Their is an assumption that wizards can just teleport to anyones location without knowledge.





> And if no statements are made about their reflexes in the books how is it really contradicting anything? And if what you said is true how to retcons via author statements work?


First of all that is going above and beyond the works already using material outside of the story itself. Authors most of the time when they are answering those questions don't put much thought into what they are saying. But fans eat some of that crazy shit up. Like Hp having superhuman reflexes. When the story itself makes no mention of such attributes at all.





> Sure you do. I find it funny that you're assuming that arguing for HP instantly makes you fans. I didn't really like HP, I'm just not dumb enough to ignore such an obvious outcome (speaking on the SEALs vs HP thread, not this one).


The assumption is obvious conclusion when individuals start arguing for material outside of the books. Which is why long drawn out off topic conversations start in series like these.


I





> nconsistency


Which is why it should be discounted.



> Author statement says lightning fast, that's obviously above peakhuman


Authors say a lot of things when they are high


----------



## U mad bro (May 20, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Jesus Christ, get off the fucking nuts of the SEALS.
> 
> Theyre not even the world's most lethal Special Ops team, what they are, however, is the most adaptive.
> 
> And they're not adapting to magic being dropped on them out of nowhere.



Ok I was on the nuts of the seals how. I am just arguing about civilians  in a school taking on legal mass murderers. The world of hp in general was wiped out by a cult.

That last part is even way more off base. You are talking as if they have any true large scale magic. Most of their magic is simple and revolves around catching their opponents off guard in a duel.


----------



## familyparka (May 20, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Most of their magic is simple and revolves around catching their opponents off guard in a duel.



And then there's Felix Felicis / TT


----------



## Saitomaru (May 20, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> What are you talking about. Their is nothing to prove everything I named they have used. Which is why I find that funny. Most of that is common knowledge. Seals deal with land, air, and sea they have access to all three.:Zaru



Prove it. Them having some dealings with land, air, and sea doesn't mean they have access to everything having to do with those areas. They had a super secret stealth chopper. Cool. That doesn't mean shit.



> It gives you an idea of their world in general. Their world doesn't come across as superhuman only old and traditionalized.



In your opinion. I always thought of magic as superhuman but that's just my opinion.



> Notice that you named several more movements than the for a wizard firing vs a gun trigger being pulled.



Did I really? Let's check:
-Point, shoot.=2
-point/wave/flick/swish&flick/etc, think/say spell. =2-4 So in situations like Levicorpus it'd only be two actions point and think.



> Secondly you keep mentioning the wizards like they are all action heroes or something. That is definitely not the case. They rely or their magic not their physical stats. The quidditch players mainly being the exceptions.



No, I (unlike you) just realize that them relying on magic is not a weakness when the enemy relies on tech. If they were outclassed physically that'd be one thing. But the wizards are apparently superhuman to some extent which by itself puts them above the SEALs.



> You obviously not comprehending what is being said. If the match is set at Hogwarts that means they start at Hogwarts already. What you are talking about is  if the seals are coming for them not if them. Not a match using the school as a location.



And see, you're not comprehending the fact that the match DIDN'T take place at Hogwarts. Don't speak on things you have no knowledge of, especially when you then insist that you're correct.



> If they didn't know where to look why would they be fighting. Why would it be a match? Basically you are saying neither side would fight. But the basic principle of these matches would have the opponents aware of who they are fighting. So in the end the building doesn't even matter. They would still have to fight.



Are you retarded? Not knowing exactly where your opponent is is not something that stops a war. Look what happened with the SEALs and mister bin laden. For the longest the US didn't really know where he was, that didn't stop them from continuing the 'war'. And the Wizards can fight without revealing their location. Take your butthurt and rampant dick-riding somewhere else.



> I didn't say they had access to it. I was talking about what can take out a dementor.



Then there was no point in bringing it up.



> Yep nope don't care what WOG has to say *whoever the fuck that is*. I know what the books say and it doesn't mention them with above human reflexes. The closest thing is Harry's athletic skills as a seeker.



Get out.



> Which is if they land the spell and come out in the opening. Unprotected. They hit one person with a spell the rest sprayed. Their is an assumption that wizards can just teleport to anyones location without knowledge.



Harry wears his invisibility cloak and apparates near the SEALs. He uses Imperio and makes one shoot another. Rinse and repeat until there is only one left. Or he can do the same thing except use Levicorpus over and over again until they're all strung up by their ankles.



> First of all that is going above and beyond the works already using material outside of the story itself. Authors most of the time when they are answering those questions don't put much thought into what they are saying. But fans eat some of that crazy shit up. Like Hp having superhuman reflexes. When the story itself makes no mention of such attributes at all.



Doesn't matter. The story says nothing to the contrary so WoG fits nicely.



> The assumption is obvious conclusion when individuals start arguing for material outside of the books. Which is why long drawn out off topic conversations start in series like these.



WoG is canon, get over it.



> Which is why it should be discounted.



Yep, that low-end should be discounted. We now have a lightning timing Harry Potter 



> Authors say a lot of things when they are high



And fanboys say a lot of things whilst dick-riding, evident by the shit you've been spouting in this thread.



U mad bro said:


> Ok I was on the nuts of the seals how. I am just arguing about civilians  in a school taking on legal mass murderers. The world of hp in general was wiped out by a cult.



That statement made your dick-riding even more obvious.



> That last part is even way more off base. You are talking as if they have any true large scale magic. Most of their magic is simple and revolves around catching their opponents off guard in a duel.



I don't see why the scale of their magic matters. And how is their magic simple? You need to go re-read the series.


----------



## Super Asian (May 20, 2013)

On the topic of the actual matchup, a shit-tier wizard was able to kill 13 people with a single spell. Couldn't say, the teachers amped on FF possibly beat Bats in scenario 2, if they all team up on him?


----------



## U mad bro (May 20, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Prove it. Them having some dealings with land, air, and sea doesn't mean they have access to everything having to do with those areas. They had a super secret stealth chopper. Cool. That doesn't mean shit.


Ok this here is where comprehension levels becomes pointed out. If hey have access to tech that isn't released. Why would they have access to equipment that has been used repeatedely by common units. That right there shits on everything you are saying.





> In your opinion. I always thought of magic as superhuman but that's just my opinion.


 Not in a world where magic no more than a tool for everyday living. They use magic instead of technology. Other than that there is little to nothing really impressive about. Maybe when I was still a child when the books first came out I would feel that way. But a decade later says no



> Did I really? Let's check:
> -Point, shoot.=2
> -point/wave/flick/swish&flick/etc, think/say spell. =2-4 So in situations like Levicorpus it'd only be two actions point and think


.
You are forgetting concentration also plays a part in their spell work. Their actions would be excessive in a fight. Exspecially against fully automatic weapons.




> No, I (unlike you) just realize that them relying on magic is not a weakness when the enemy relies on tech. If they were outclassed physically that'd be one thing. But the wizards are apparently superhuman to some extent which by itself puts them above the SEALs.


To what extent if you are going to say superhuman give an actual precedence for that fact. That  is my main and only argument for that. Otherwise I wouldn't argue against it.



> And see, you're not comprehending the fact that the match DIDN'T take place at Hogwarts. Don't speak on things you have no knowledge of, especially when you then insist that you're correct.


First of all you where the one who mentioned Hogwarts. My original post consisted of Batman rapes. I doubt they can handle a regular special forces team let alone him. Something along those lines. I wasn't even specifically talking about seals at first.




> Are you retarded? Not knowing exactly where your opponent is is not something that stops a war. Look what happened with the SEALs and mister bin laden. For the longest the US didn't really know where he was, that didn't stop them from continuing the 'war'. And the Wizards can fight without revealing their location. Take your butthurt and rampant dick-riding somewhere else


.
Lol calling someone retarded when your argument clearly demonstrates that is more your field. What you are saying is beyond stupid. Mostly I already explained this. If the location is inaccessible to them and they can't pin point them. That means the wizards have to attack them. Meaning no matter  what the fuck you are talking about eventually the wizards will still be engaged with them outside of their protection. The faggotry starts when they know their argument is weak as shit.





> Then there was no point in bringing it up.


I wasn't talking to you when I posted that the first time. So .....



> Get out.


Pfft





> Harry wears his invisibility cloak and apparates near the SEALs. He uses Imperio and makes one shoot another. Rinse and repeat until there is only one left. Or he can do the same thing except use Levicorpus over and over again until they're all strung up by their ankles.


Seals throws grenade where friend got shot. 




> Doesn't matter. The story says nothing to the contrary so WoG fits nicely.


bOOK>>>>>>fan opinions



> WoG is canon, get over it.


Nothing to get over.



> Yep, that low-end should be discounted. We now have a lightning timing Harry Potter


Yep go play with your wand



> And fanboys say a lot of things whilst dick-riding, evident by the shit you've been spouting in this thread.


Lol calling me a fanboy. What sounds like a fanboy a person who just uses common knowledge like the book or a person who goes beyond the book. Like use author statement and works meant just for the fans. Then say it's canon. That is the very definitio of dick riding and fanboyism.





> That statement made your dick-riding even more obvious.


You are more familiar wanking wands than I.





> I don't see why the scale of their magic matters. And how is their magic simple? You need to go re-read the series.


It matter alot considering close range they can't do anything unless up close. Up close they meet fully automatic weapons that can shred concrete.


----------



## Saitomaru (May 20, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Ok this here is where comprehension levels becomes pointed out. If hey have access to tech that isn't released. Why would they have access to equipment that has been used repeatedely by common units. That right there shits on everything you are saying.



That's not how shit works in the military. You don't get access to everything a 'lesser' unit gets purely because you're 'better'. Different branches have different things. Different subgroups get different things.



> Not in a world where magic no more than a tool for everyday living. They use magic instead of technology. Other than that there is little to nothing really impressive about. Maybe when I was still a child when the books first came out I would feel that way. But a decade later says no.



What does their common usage of magic have to do with whether or not they're superhuman (which according to WoG they are)?



> You are forgetting concentration also plays a part in their spell work. Their actions would be excessive in a fight. Exspecially against fully automatic weapons.



And you seem to be forgetting that concentration and precise aim plays a part in shooting a firearm. And as has been shown in the book, after their first year simple spells require little in the way of concentration. Wizards don't even need to know what a spell does to use it. 



> To what extent if you are going to say superhuman give an actual precedence for that fact. That  is my main and only argument for that. Otherwise I wouldn't argue against it.



WoG says they have lightning reflexes, I severely doubt that but it does make it obvious that they are superhuman to some extent. What extent? It doesn't really matter. Because even if they're only just barely above peakhuman that would make them superior to SEALs.



> First of all you where the one who mentioned Hogwarts. My original post consisted of Batman rapes. I doubt they can handle a regular special forces team let alone him. Something along those lines. I wasn't even specifically talking about seals at first.



Yes, and if you look back at my reply I pointed out the HP vs SEALs thread to counter your 'regular special forces team' claim.



> Lol calling someone retarded when your argument clearly demonstrates that is more your field. What you are saying is beyond stupid. Mostly I already explained this. If the location is inaccessible to them and they can't pin point them. That means the wizards have to attack them. Meaning no matter  what the fuck you are talking about eventually the wizards will still be engaged with them outside of their protection. The faggotry starts when they know their argument is weak as shit.



And you seemed to have glossed over the fact that the wizards can easily engage them outside Hogwarts. They just wouldn't need to.



> I wasn't talking to you when I posted that the first time. So .....



I never said you were.



> Seals throws grenade where friend got shot.



So they throw a grenade at their own squad mate? Since I was talking about the wizard making them shoot each other.



> bOOK>>>>>>fan opinions



WoG, not fan opinions.



> Nothing to get over.



Okay, concession accepted 



> Yep go play with your wand



Concession Accepted.



> Lol calling me a fanboy. What sounds like a fanboy a person who just uses common knowledge like the book or a person who goes beyond the book. Like use author statement and works meant just for the fans. Then say it's canon. That is the very definitio of dick riding and fanboyism.



Common knowledge? Says the guy who seems to forget what WoG is. Also, whether or not something is classified as common knowledge does not change its rank in canon nor how canon works.



> You are more familiar wanking wands than I.



Nope, but nice try.



> It matter alot considering close range they can't do anything unless up close. Up close they meet fully automatic weapons that can shred concrete.



Since when was close range necessary? They stay at medium or long range and spam levicorpus and/or sectumsempra.


----------



## Tacocat (May 20, 2013)

HP characters have superhuman reactions by virtue of close-range weaving between others flying on 150mph broomsticks. They are not MHS because that shit is fucking hyperbole.

7 fucking pages of juvenile flamebaiting? Are you people fucking serious right now? 

@Asian: No one is doing anything to Batman in scenario 2.


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## Saitomaru (May 20, 2013)

SuperTacocat said:


> HP characters have superhuman reactions by virtue of close-range weaving between others flying on 150mph broomsticks. They are not MHS because that shit is fucking hyperbole.



That was obvious. The point is that they have superhuman reactions to some extent. A certain someone was denying this all together.



> 7 fucking pages of juvenile flamebaiting? Are you people fucking serious right now?



Do you really have to ask?


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## U mad bro (May 20, 2013)

SuperTacocat said:


> > HP characters have superhuman reactions by virtue of close-range weaving between others flying on 150mph broomsticks.
> 
> 
> They are not MHS because that shit is fucking hyperbole.
> ...



That can be just velocitation not  superhuman reaction speed. People hit  over 100mph on their bikes and can weave at close range. Case and point stunt drivers. Furthermore most are not that good on brooms.

I am done with this anyways this shit will never end. Plus the never ending circular reasoning being used for hp. So back to my original answer to this thread Batman rapes no lube. He has faced magician more powerful casually than Dumbledore and Voldemort combined. The school does what by themselves?


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## Tacocat (May 20, 2013)

I was unaware that stunt drivers reacted to things moving 150mph in the opposite direction at melee range while they themselves were moving 150mph.

And anyway, velocitation is caused by going too fast over a long period of time. Quidditch players are in the thick of it from the off, so that's not exactly what I'd call "a long period of time".

I don't care how you look at it, HP characters have consistent superhuman reaction. Of course Batman has feats in entirely different leagues--I'm even of the opinion that he can take scenario 1--but that doesn't make HP characters not-superhuman, so you should probably stop downplaying.


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## Huey Freeman (May 20, 2013)

Only certain wizards are capable of being seekers not all first off. So you got to prove the majority is. Second off Bats jump over his car that is far faster than any broomstick and that's a low reaction feat.


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## Tacocat (May 20, 2013)

SuperTacocat said:


> I was unaware that stunt drivers reacted to things moving 150mph in the opposite direction at melee range while they themselves were moving 150mph.
> 
> And anyway, velocitation is caused by going too fast over a long period of time. Quidditch players are in the thick of it from the off, so that's not exactly what I'd call "a long period of time".
> 
> I don't care how you look at it, HP characters have consistent superhuman reaction. *Of course Batman has feats in entirely different leagues--I'm even of the opinion that he can take scenario 1*--but that doesn't make HP characters not-superhuman, so you should probably stop downplaying.


Please read my post before telling me what I have to do thanks


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## Huey Freeman (May 20, 2013)

Reading is for chumps


----------



## U mad bro (May 20, 2013)

SuperTacocat said:


> I was unaware that stunt drivers reacted to things moving 150mph in the opposite direction at melee range while they themselves were moving 150mph.
> 
> And anyway, velocitation is caused by going too fast over a long period of time. Quidditch players are in the thick of it from the off, so that's not exactly what I'd call "a long period of time".
> 
> I don't care how you look at it, HP characters have consistent superhuman reaction. Of course Batman has feats in entirely different leagues--I'm even of the opinion that he can take scenario 1--but that doesn't make HP characters not-superhuman, so you should probably stop downplaying.


Yeah no still both are moving at similar levels of speed.  That is equal to moving around in traffic or stunt driving like I said. Racing seems to be the best example. Also they are moving constantly most of those games happen over long periods of time. You are trying to use them  as superhuman when it is just driving vehicles or if you want like flying a plane in dogfight. Then  there is the fact what you are describing as' superhuman' reactions most can't even do. You say I am downplaying when that is not it all. I am just calling it out for what it is a very skeptical way of saying someone has superhuman reaction speed. That is called athleticism not superhuman reaction speed.


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## Saitomaru (May 20, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Yeah no still both are moving at similar levels of speed.  That is equal to moving around in traffic or stunt driving like I said. Racing seems to be the best example..



Did you just not understand what was said? Object A is moving 150mph in one direction Object b is moving 150 mph in the opposite direction, towards Object A.

A150mph→ ←B150mph So from object A's perspective B seems to be moving toward it at 300mph.



> Also they are moving constantly most of those games happen over long periods of time.



They also happen to be changing directions (sometimes sharply) at that speed to react to various objects (bludgers, the quaffle, other players, the snitch in a Seeker's case). There shouldn't be any question about whether that constitutes a reaction feat.



> You are trying to use them  as superhuman when it is just driving vehicles or if you want like flying a plane in dogfight.



What does it being them in vehicles have to do with anything? No one is claiming that that applies to their movement speed.



> Then  there is the fact what you are describing as' superhuman' reactions most can't even do.



Is there anything to support this? It is true that it takes a 'special breed' of wizard to be a seeker. But I don't remember anything being said about the other spots on the team. It seems just like how it is for humans on sports teams. A human is technically capable of playing any spot on the field, but it requires training.



> You say I am downplaying when that is not it all. I am just calling it out for what it is a very skeptical way of saying someone has superhuman reaction speed. That is called athleticism not superhuman reaction speed



Athleticism which happens to denote superhuman reactions.


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## U mad bro (May 20, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Did you just not understand what was said? Object A is moving 150mph in one direction Object b is moving 150 mph in the opposite direction, towards Object A.
> 
> A150mph→ ←B150mph So from object A's perspective B seems to be moving toward it at 300mph.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? Human perception would not change at those speeds. It would be no different than two people running towards eachother. Hence how at airshows pilots can perform similar movements. They also change directions sharply at way higher speeds than 150.

Everything you are talking about is skill. You wanted me to support my claim. How about even among the players there is a huge gap in skill. Harry was the most dominate flyer mentioned in the series. Then there is the fact not all brooms got to 150. He had the best broom. You are trying to pass one person feats to the entire series.


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## Saitomaru (May 21, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> What are you talking about? Human perception would not change at those speeds. It would be no different than two people running towards eachother. Hence how at airshows pilots can perform similar movements. They also change directions sharply at way higher speeds than 150.



:rofl



> Everything you are talking about is skill. You wanted me to support my claim. How about even among the players there is a huge gap in skill. Harry was the most dominate flyer mentioned in the series. Then there is the fact not all brooms got to 150. He had the best broom. You are trying to pass one person feats to the entire series.



Gaps in skill would have little to do with reaction time outside the assumed gap between Seekers and other quidditch positions. You're confusing things and trying to sweep this whole thing under the 'athleticism rug' as if that's even a proper argument. What do you have that goes against the author stating that wizards have superhuman reflexes? And remember, even if we were to restrict these stats to Harry it wouldn't change the end result of a SEALs vs HPverse battle. Harry would dominate.


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## U mad bro (May 21, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> :rofl
> 
> 
> 
> Gaps in skill would have little to do with reaction time outside the assumed gap between Seekers and other quidditch positions. You're confusing things and trying to sweep this whole thing under the 'athleticism rug' as if that's even a proper argument. What do you have that goes against the author stating that wizards have superhuman reflexes? And remember, even if we were to restrict these stats to Harry it wouldn't change the end result of a SEALs vs HPverse battle. Harry would dominate.



Lol you laughter only portrays you ignorance not mine. Human perception is capable of perceiving objects moving a 100 plus standing still. Yet you are talking out your ass like itvis fact.

That is because it is athleticism if even that. More like reflexes of a pilot or a race car driver. Also y. Just Inored the fact about most brooms dont move that fast. 150 is for the firebolt the fastest broom on the series. So the nonsense being spouted is groundless.

As for the seals I been gave up arguing those asinine thoughts on that. Why because what you are saying is basically roleplaying scenarios. Not actually matching abilities or weaponry. Real world weaponry>>>>>>>>>>> hp.Real world intelligence>>>>>>> hp


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## Saitomaru (May 21, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Lol you laughter only portrays you ignorance not mine. Human perception is capable of perceiving objects moving a 100 plus standing still. Yet you are talking out your ass like itvis fact.



That's funny, because I was actually laughing at your ignorance.



> That is because it is athleticism if even that. More like reflexes of a pilot or a race car driver. Also y. Just Inored the fact about most brooms dont move that fast. 150 is for the firebolt the fastest broom on the series. So the nonsense being spouted is groundless.



Can you come up with an example of a pilot or driver doing anything remotely as reaction intensive as weaving your way through the air narrowly dodging things moving at either the same speed or faster? Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that Harry isn't the only wizard with a firebolt. A whole quidditch team was using that model. We also have no real idea how fast other brooms move, you know, other than fast enough to allow seekers of the past to catch the so-called lightning fast Snitch.



> As for the seals I been gave up arguing those asinine thoughts on that. Why because what you are saying is basically roleplaying scenarios. Not actually matching abilities or weaponry. Real world weaponry>>>>>>>>>>> hp.Real world intelligence>>>>>>> hp



Roleplay? Okay, let's set up the scenario so that the SEALs have as good a chance without simply stripping the HPverse of their magic. They start 30m apart, and the match takes place on a large open field. Wizards win. The only way the SEALs are winning is if they are given months of prep and the ability to hide, while the Wizards are made to stand out in the open with no idea of what's to come.


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## U mad bro (May 21, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> That's funny, because I was actually laughing at your ignorance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny enough you say that but I have explained and given examples of why what you are saying is bs.

Lol yet you say I am ignorant. You never heard of a dog fight or seen an air show. Everything you name happens. Also I wasn't aware every wizard in hogwarts were pro players. Lol just stop.

Come talk to me when you can prove they can counter weapons capable od firing 1000 plus rounds casually.


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## Banhammer (May 21, 2013)

Harry Potterverse characters have been confirmed by the author like, seven or eight years ago, to have super-human reflexes


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## Banhammer (May 21, 2013)

They also know enough anti-muggle imperceptibility that most any hogwartsian mook can just walk up to him, wearing a polka drum suit and farting to the seven winds, before casually stabbing him in the eye


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## Saitomaru (May 21, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Funny enough you say that but I have explained and given examples of why what you are saying is bs.



You're downplaying is not a proper explanation. You've been vehemently denying WoG purely because in YOUR OPINION they didn't seem superhuman when you read the books.



> Lol yet you say I am ignorant. You never heard of a dog fight or seen an air show. Everything you name happens. Also I wasn't aware every wizard in hogwarts were pro players. Lol just stop.



Yes, because dog fights and air shows feature extremely tight movements, narrow dodges, and melee range rapid avoidance. No, they don't. And further more, Air shows are rehearsed CONSTANTLY prior to the actual show. And dog fights don't take place at the kind of range that quidditch can. We're talking about American football defensive linemen range but with bludgers occasionally flying at the back of your head. And I never said every wizard at hogwarts was a pro player. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.



> Come talk to me when you can prove they can counter weapons capable od firing 1000 plus rounds casually.



They have author confirmed superhuman reflexes. That means their reflexes are superior to a SEAL's reflexes. Far superior at that since SEALs aren't peakhumans.


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## Mambo (May 21, 2013)

Someone actually argue that Navy Seal's reflexes > Wizard's reflexes?


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## Linkofone (May 21, 2013)




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## U mad bro (May 21, 2013)

Banhammer said:


> Harry Potterverse characters have been confirmed by the author like, seven or eight years ago, to have super-human reflexes



Authors say a lot of things after the fact. Most of it is them just saying random opinions with no thoughts behind it. Case and point a snitch being the speed of lightning. That tells you right there what they say shouldn't be taken seriously. The real canon material will always be the books.





Banhammer said:


> They also know enough anti-muggle imperceptibility that most any hogwartsian mook can just walk up to him, wearing a polka drum suit and farting to the seven winds, before casually stabbing him in the eye


Yeah laced on their houses not on their persons. There hasn't been mentioning of a mobile spell like that all. If they had one what is the point of dressing in muggle clothes.





Saitomaru said:


> You're downplaying is not a proper explanation. You've been vehemently denying WoG purely because in YOUR OPINION they didn't seem superhuman when you read the books.


Not my opinion it is fact they weren't superhuman physically. Author statements are hardly stable. 





> Yes, because dog fights and air shows feature extremely tight movements, narrow dodges, and melee range rapid avoidance. No, they don't. And further more, Air shows are rehearsed CONSTANTLY prior to the actual show. And dog fights don't take place at the kind of range that quidditch can. We're talking about American football defensive linemen range but with bludgers occasionally flying at the back of your head. And I never said every wizard at hogwarts was a pro player. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.


Yeah they are in planes not magical brooms built for close proximity. Also just stop talking for one a dog fight which doesn't  happen anymore involves close proximity shootouts in the air. I am talking side by side seeing the other pilots face close. While performing highspeed evasive maneuvers performed in air shows. Which is where those stunts originate. Secondly airshow pilots perform that on the regular. You say I am downplaying but everything you are saying is downplaying and straight wanking.

I am not putting words in your mouth. Stop trying to pass off feats like it is common.


> They have author confirmed superhuman reflexes. That means their reflexes are superior to a SEAL's reflexes. Far superior at that since SEALs aren't peakhumans.


The author confirmed....lol broken record. The fact that is the only thing you have to use shows how weak your argument is. Article or statement of author confirming superhuman reactions. I find this funny for multiple reasons even if they do have super human reactions you have absolutely no proof they can react to automatic weapons such as an M-60.


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## Saitomaru (May 21, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Authors say a lot of things after the fact. Most of it is them just saying random opinions with no thoughts behind it. Case and point a snitch being the speed of lightning. That tells you right there what they say shouldn't be taken seriously. The real canon material will always be the books. Not my opinion it is fact they weren't superhuman physically. Author statements are hardly stable.



WoG



> Yeah they are in planes not magical brooms built for close proximity. Also just stop talking for one a dog fight which doesn't  happen anymore involves close proximity shootouts in the air. I am talking side by side seeing the other pilots face close. While performing highspeed evasive maneuvers performed in air shows. Which is where those stunts originate. Secondly airshow pilots perform that on the regular. You say I am downplaying but everything you are saying is downplaying and straight wanking.



Its not downplaying. Dog fights don't occur in the kind of close quarters that quidditch does. Nor do they feature the kinds of rapid changes in direction that quidditch does (mostly because this is next to impossible for current-day planes).



> I am not putting words in your mouth. Stop trying to pass off feats like it is common.



Yes you did. I never said every wizard is a pro quidditch player.



> The author confirmed....lol broken record. The fact that is the only thing you have to use shows how weak your argument is.



WoG is valid.



> Article or statement of author confirming superhuman reactions.



I do believe you saw that lightning quote earlier. Hyperbole aside, that is still a rather obvious indication of superhuman reflexes.



> I find this funny for multiple reasons even if they do have super human reactions you have absolutely no proof they can react to automatic weapons such as an M-60.



They don't need to outspeed the bullets, just the gunman's aim. Superhuman reflexes would allow them to cast a spell (levicorpus) before the SEAL could aim and shoot.


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## familyparka (May 21, 2013)

+rep just because of this

/thread


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## Lucaniel (May 21, 2013)

> Scenario 1: Batman has standard gear, Hogwarts has no idea he's coming.
> 
> Scenario 2: Batman gets a week of prep, Hogwarts is informed that something is coming 4 days prior.
> 
> Scenario 3: Same as scenario 2, but everyone is willing to kill. Dumbledore steps in here.



1. wins

2. stomps

3. stomps


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## U mad bro (May 21, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> WoG
> 
> 
> 
> Its not downplaying. Dog fights don't occur in the kind of close quarters that quidditch does. Nor do they feature the kinds of rapid changes in direction that quidditch does (mostly because this is next to impossible for current-day planes).


All they are doing is turning at the end of the day at close quarters. You are trying to wank the shit out of it. Those movements are exactly like the movements of a plane or vehicle. You are completely full of shit on this subject.





> Yes you did. I never said every wizard is a pro quidditch player.


Come now stop trying to play it off. What you were trying to do is pass off the general reaction speed of a quidditch player to every wizard. 




> WoG is garbage with proof from the book


 fixed for you



> I do believe you saw that lightning quote earlier. Hyperbole aside, that is still a rather obvious indication of superhuman reflexes.


First of all the original quote me would have probably been lightning fast. Sounds like someone took a metaphor literally. That being said it doesn't prove anything. It only suggests seekers have decent reaction speeds. Not the whole hp community. Definitely not superhuman




> They don't need to outspeed the bullets, just the gunman's aim. Superhuman reflexes would allow them to cast a spell (levicorpus) before the SEAL could aim and shoot.



 That is if they have superhuman reaction speeds they don't. Secondly levicorpus doesn't stop movements. Lastly there is no guarantee they can tag everyone. Some of them are going to fire of rounds. So it still comes down to whether or not you are saying they are bullet timers.


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## Saitomaru (May 21, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> -snip-



WoG



> That is if they have superhuman reaction speeds they don't. Secondly levicorpus doesn't stop movements. Lastly there is no guarantee they can tag everyone. Some of them are going to fire of rounds. So it still comes down to whether or not you are saying they are bullet timers.



No, but it does string you up by your heels and leave you dangling. That will throw off even the best marksmen's aim. With the SEAL's aim disrupted the wizards can just crank out an assortment of spells to clean up (sectumsempra, stupefy, etc.)


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## U mad bro (May 21, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> WoG
> 
> 
> 
> No, but it does string you up by your heels and leave you dangling. That will throw off even the best marksmen's aim. With the SEAL's aim disrupted the wizards can just crank out an assortment of spells to clean up (sectumsempra, stupefy, etc.)



You dont get it. My point is they can lay fire on the entire area. Their spells have versatility of a gun. But unlike a gun they can't fire off thousands. So what happens when they tag a few seals. I will tell you they get fucked up by assault rifles.


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## Saitomaru (May 21, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> You dont get it. My point is they can lay fire on the entire area. Their spells have versatility of a gun. But unlike a gun they can't fire off thousands. So what happens when they tag a few seals. I will tell you they get fucked up by assault rifles.



You're operating under the assumption that the SEALs even manage to shoot. The method I listed fits your 'equal grounds' gripe and shows how the wizards win. They use levicorpus and then stupefy, in quick succession. The only shots that would get fired in that scenario are stray shots from an accidental trigger pull. And it wouldn't matter if one or two (or even fifty) wizards got hit. There'd still be enough left to wipe out the SEALs. If they're feeling really mean they can just alternate between Levicorpus and Liberacorpus causing the SEALs to get repeatedly dropped on their heads.

Edit: This threads gone on long enough, and there is no reason to keep bumping this thread with an argument that was settled before and even received another thread. If you want to continue this do so in the proper thread.


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## U mad bro (May 21, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> You're operating under the assumption that the SEALs even manage to shoot. The method I listed fits your 'equal grounds' gripe and shows how the wizards win. They use levicorpus and then stupefy, in quick succession. The only shots that would get fired in that scenario are stray shots from an accidental trigger pull. And it wouldn't matter if one or two (or even fifty) wizards got hit. There'd still be enough left to wipe out the SEALs. If they're feeling really mean they can just alternate between Levicorpus and Liberacorpus causing the SEALs to get repeatedly dropped on their heads.


Nope you are assuming they can tag every single one. When that is not the case. Their spells are not that veratile for one. Two their range is not impressive. What you are saying requires close range. Which is flawed also from the fact they tag one another nearby seal could tag the spell caster. Which would free the one that got hit by a spell. It will still come down to whether oe not they cqn handle assualt rifles. Which is no for the most.


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## Banhammer (May 21, 2013)

Pretty sure imobiliarbus requires no specific aiming

On a side note, Batman has no way to get around the most generic muggle proofing


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## Banhammer (May 21, 2013)

> Their spells have versatility of a gun.



?_?

Oh dear me, I forgot how ridiculous the OBD could be, and the irrelevance of it's engagement


Consider me thoroughly reprimanded


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## Banhammer (May 21, 2013)

Death by dementor /thread


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## Huey Freeman (May 21, 2013)

Yes because it's not like higher cosmic beings haven't judge Bats already and failed to do so.


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## Saitomaru (May 21, 2013)

U mad bro said:


> Nope you are assuming they can tag every single one. When that is not the case. Their spells are not that veratile for one. Two their range is not impressive. What you are saying requires close range. Which is flawed also from the fact *they tag one another nearby seal could tag the spell caster.* Which would free the one that got hit by a spell. It will still come down to whether oe not they cqn handle assualt rifles. Which is no for the most.



Close range? Can you please provide the source for this claim? And in the bolded text you're assuming that the wizards string them up one at a time. I was talking about practically all at once, massive levicorpus stupefy combo. There wouldn't be any SEALs left standing. If a few SEALs get lucky and manage to hit a few Wizards the general outcome for the match doesn't change.


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## Banhammer (May 21, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Yes because it's not like higher cosmic beings haven't judge Bats already and failed to do so.



you say that as if it meant anything

The more traumatized you are, the more effectively a dementor kills you

Nothing beats Mr "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD" himself

Bruce doesn't last a microsecond in the same room as a dementor


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## Huey Freeman (May 21, 2013)

So it's a water down version of Scarecrow gas. 

Dr. Destiny did that to Bats and he got babyshaked and he is a planetary dream manipulator.


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## U mad bro (May 22, 2013)

Saitomaru said:


> Close range? Can you please provide the source for this claim? And in the bolded text you're assuming that the wizards string them up one at a time. I was talking about practically all at once, massive levicorpus stupefy combo. There wouldn't be any SEALs left standing. If a few SEALs get lucky and manage to hit a few Wizards the general outcome for the match doesn't change.



Their spells dont have a range worth mentioning. You keep telling me to provided sources yet you yourself have provided nothing. A mass levicorpus at one time. Who in the series performed that type of magic. Not even Dumbledore or Voldemort have feats like that. That is the first part you are delusional on.

The second point is you completely just downplay what assault rifles. Especially military grade assault rifles most of which can clear buildings with two to three.


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