# Strongest Defense Ranks



## Kazekage94 (Jul 11, 2013)

I wonder which characters have the greatest ultimate defense

Sasuke
Yamato
Gaara
Neji
Hishirama
Itachi
Madara
Orochimaru
Sarutobi
Haku
Ohonki

Rank them according to Strongest Ultimate Defense.
The Susanoo users are only able to use their Ribcage Defense.


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## Veracity (Jul 11, 2013)

Lack of Raikage's? But definitely Hashirama by far.


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## trance (Jul 11, 2013)

Madara's Susanoo ribcage withstood being dipped in lava IIRC.


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## ImSerious (Jul 11, 2013)

Your list lacks Minato.

That flawless untouched record


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## Bonly (Jul 12, 2013)

Assuming Hishirama is Hashirama, Hashi wins the category quite easily here.  Madara had 100 percent Kurama fire off a Bijuudama which Hashi redirceted back at Madara and when said Bijuudama exploded, Hashi had Mokuton: Hōbi protect him. I don't believe anyone on the list was able to have their defense tank something with that much power(well besides Madara's PS but you've restricted that here) thus Hashi has the best defense here.


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## Ersa (Jul 12, 2013)

Hashirama is easily the best, his best defense took several Bijuudamas.

Why ribcage? Should we restrict Gaara to Part I sand defense?

Hashirama



-----



Madara (ribcage)
Itachi (ribcage)
Gaara
Sasuke (ribcage)
Orochimaru
Onoki
Neji
Sarutobi
Haku


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## Doge (Jul 12, 2013)

ImSerious said:


> Your list lacks Minato.
> 
> That flawless untouched record



Until Obito fodderizes that scrub.  It's the plot twist, man.


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## FlamingRain (Jul 12, 2013)

Hashirama
Madara
Sasuke
Itachi
Orochimaru
Gaara
Sarutobi
Yamato
Neji
Onoki
Haku

?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 12, 2013)

1. Naruto's Biju Mode cloak-tanked a Jyubi Bijudama Beam, the best single defense in the manga.
2. Madara/Hashirama - Both survived this.
3. Sandaime Raikage - Tanked the Futon: Rasenshuriken.
4. Itachi/Sasuke - Both have shown an equal defense in the manga, minus unproven hype of Yata Mirror.
5. Gaara - Suna no Tate has tanked Amaterasu, Guillotine Drop, several Enton: Kagutsuchi, and Deidara's ninja village busting C3.
6. Orochimaru - Kuchiyoise: Sanju Rashomon managed to allow him to survive KN4's Bijudama.
7. Yamato - Mokuton:  Moku Joheki allowed him to survive KN4's transformation.
8. Neji - Kaiten helped block Jyubi arm.
9. Hiruzen - Doton blocked Tobirama's Suiton.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 12, 2013)

Well, this is going by only the shinobi listed in the OP (although it's worth mentioning that the OP failed to include a lot of characters with good defenses, so this doesn't necessarily represent all of the best):


1. Hashirama
2. Orochimaru
3. Itachi/Sasuke/Madara*
4. Gaara
5. Oonoki
6. Yamato
7. Sarutobi
8. Neji
9. Haku


*This is in accordance with the OP's arbitrary restriction that the Susano'o users may only manifest the ribcage part of the Jutsu. Without that condition, the Uchiha Bros. would both be above Orochimaru and Madara would be above them, just under Hashirama.


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## Ersa (Jul 12, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 I hope you're not implying V4 Susanoo with Yata can't tank FRS.


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## cameranarchy (Jul 12, 2013)

I love the susano'o, but minato's teleportation is amazing, here's a link to my amv of sasuke, and itachi's fight,      Kaiten helped block Jyubi arm.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 12, 2013)

Rasant said:


> SuperSaiyaMan12 I hope you're not implying V4 Susanoo with Yata can't tank FRS.



Don't worry; he'll say it explicitly now that you've called him on it.


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## trance (Jul 12, 2013)

Didn't Yata Mirror tank Kirin...and didn't Kirin wipe out a mountain?


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jul 12, 2013)

Kazekage94 said:


> I wonder which characters have the greatest ultimate defense
> 
> Sasuke
> Yamato
> ...



Minato's FTG is the greatest defense...  while also the greatest offense...
Followed by Obito's use of KAMUI...
Followed by itachi's susanoo with the yata mirror..
Followed by SM hashirama using buddha summon...
followed by madara using perfect susanoo...
followed by sasuke's complete suasnoo he has no used for so long...
4th raikage's raiton armour...
Followed by kakashi's Use of kamui...


With the 4th raikage''s>3rd raikage's due to level of lightning chakra...

Nothing else matters...


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 12, 2013)

Oh yea I know I didn't add more characters. My apologies but it was just out of the characters I listed.


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## trance (Jul 12, 2013)

I'm surprised Haku's on here instead of someone like Sandaime Raikage or Preta path.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 12, 2013)

Kazekage94 said:


> I wonder which characters have the greatest ultimate defense
> 
> Sasuke
> Yamato
> ...



Added Minato, Saindaime Raikage, and Obito to the list because they are simply up there defense wise. 

0. Minato (Hiraishin kunai, Hiraishin tags & seals)

1. Obito (kamui)

2. Saindaime Raikage (his only whole in his defense is due to sheer plot [stabbing himself])

3. Hashirama (all that wood, moukton bushins, golems to use bijuudama rasengans... nuff said)

4. Madara (Perfect Susano'o, ribcage, Moukton bushin, etc...)

5. Itachi (Final Susano'o, Yata mirror, ribcage)

6. Sasuke (Susano'o, ribcage, enton shield/circle, chidori Nagashi)

7. Gaara (sand that can react to Enton and possibly AMeterasu, can be protected against Susano'o and can protect others)

8. Orochimaru (Fusha tensei, that thing he used against KN4, Manda)

9. Neji (Rotation, 360 field vision)

10. Onoki (Golem rock shield)

11. Sarutobi (monkey king Enma, monkey cage)

12. Yamato  (Moukton bushin, moukton shields and barriers)

13. Haku (crystal ice mirrors)


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## Veracity (Jul 12, 2013)

If people are adding Minato and Obito, which isn't even a defense, considering its just avoiding touch, then where is Tsunade on these lists??


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## Nikushimi (Jul 12, 2013)

Trance said:


> Didn't Yata Mirror tank Kirin...and didn't Kirin wipe out a mountain?



We actually don't have any evidence which part of Susano'o protected Itachi from Kirin or even how developed it was.

It could've just been the mini-ribcage or a Susano'o hand.

Even if it required the full version and the Yata no Kagami somehow managed to form and move above Itachi in time to block the lightning, it's still pretty impressive. The Hachibi survived a direct hit with Bijuudama without suffering any deep wounds and the 4th Raikage was able to cut off the Hachibi's horn completely, yet he failed to cut through Sasuke's mini-ribcage Susano'o completely, so Kirin is evidently more penetrative than Bijuudama. FRS wouldn't amount to much.



Likes boss said:


> If people are adding Minato and Obito, which isn't even a defense, considering its just avoiding touch, then where is Tsunade on these lists??



That doesn't really make sense, since Tsunade is terrible at avoiding touch compared to those two.

And she actually has a great defense in the form of Katsuyu augmented by her Infuin chakra.


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## ueharakk (Jul 12, 2013)

Dragon Sage Ash said:


> With the 4th raikage''s>3rd raikage's due to level of lightning chakra...
> 
> Nothing else matters...



Are you saying that RnY Ei is more durable than his father?

As for the thread:
1) Hashirama (took 11 swordamas to destroy the back of his mokubuddah)
2) Gaara (blocked the C3 nuke, jouki boy, held the meteor after oonoki lightened it)
3) Orochimaru  (triple rashoumon took the majority of the damage from a TBB)
4) Madara = Sasuke = Itachi.  (since they are limited to ribcage susanoo and none of their lower stage susanoos seem to be more durable than the others)
5) Oonoki (stone golem was hyped to be on par with gaara's mother defense, and it helped block multiple magatama)
6) Haku = Neiji (neither seem very impressive, Haku blocked a bunch of explosive tags, Neiji blocked juubi's mokuton spears for some time).
7) Sarutobi (IIRC, his best defense is a doton wall, which blocked a non-lethal suiton)


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## Octavian (Jul 12, 2013)

Minato has the best defensive feat in the manga by casually teleporting that Juubidama. Second best would be Hashirama's Shinsuusenju overpowering the combined assault of Perfect Susano'o and multiple Kyuubi bijuudamas. Third and fourth would be Madara and Itachi, respectively.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 12, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> If people are adding Minato and Obito, which isn't even a defense, considering its just avoiding touch, then where is Tsunade on these lists??



Minato's Hiraishin, alongside Obito's use of Kamui are the best two defenses in the manga, period. 

Only reason Tsunade wasn't added was because I was too lazy to add so many other people which aren't exactly up there on the list, defensively speaking. Sandaime Raikage was added for the very reason that he is both very agile, quite fast, and has the durability of a tank.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 12, 2013)

Hasharima (Shin Suusenju if he can't perform Shisekiyoujin with Bunshins)
*Gaara if allowed enough sand to perform Kuusa Bouheki to form a dome over him)
Orochimaru (Sanjuu Rashomon + Manda or Manda 2.0 wrapped around)
Madara (Shinra Tensei +Susano'o chakra barrier)
Sasuke (Aoda wrapped around plus ribcage of Susano'o)
Gaara (Shukaku no Tate scaled to Part II Gaara, + Suna no Tate + Suna no Yoroi as a cumulative defense)
Sarutobi (Enma's Kongou Rouheki)
Itachi (ribcage of Susano'o)
Onoki (Gouremu)
Haku (ice dome)
Neji (Kaiten)
Yamato (Doryuuheki)


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## Jagger (Jul 12, 2013)

That wasn't Shinra Tensei, that was just a dramatic move to make things more interesting.

If Madara used his head, he'd be one of the best. Susano'O + Preta Path + Mokuton Bunshin, it would be impossible to touch the guy.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 12, 2013)

Jagger said:


> That wasn't Shinra Tensei, that was just a dramatic move to make things more interesting.



It looked like Shinra Tensei and Madara did says he knew the jutsu of the six paths. Of course his preferred defense is Susano'o since it has no recharge time after use.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 12, 2013)

Trance said:


> Didn't Yata Mirror tank Kirin...and didn't Kirin wipe out a mountain?


If it tanked it, Itachi's Susano'o wouldn't have disappeared from Kirin's strike. Instead, Susano'o with the Yata Mirror was penetrated and Itachi lost his cloak and received some horrible injuries.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 12, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> If it tanked it, Itachi's Susano'o wouldn't have disappeared from Kirin's strike. Instead, Susano'o with the Yata Mirror was penetrated and Itachi lost his cloak and received some horrible injuries.



(Except there's no evidence the mirror actually managed to form in time, let alone move into Kirin's path above Itachi. Just like we don't know how much of the Susano'o had manifested.)


*cough* Fixed.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah, Itachi has never activated the armored form of Susano'o with tools instantly. The most he has ever done in a short amount of time is the complete Susano'o.

Which, incidentally, is the most Sasuke ever managed with the standard Mangekyo as well.


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## Veracity (Jul 12, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> Minato's Hiraishin, alongside Obito's use of Kamui are the best two defenses in the manga, period.
> 
> Only reason Tsunade wasn't added was because I was too lazy to add so many other people which aren't exactly up there on the list, defensively speaking. Sandaime Raikage was added for the very reason that he is both very agile, quite fast, and has the durability of a tank.



The Minato wank is too damn strong nowadays. No one area about him until he got KCM, Kage Bunshin, and FTG hax. 

So I guess it's techinically a defense, but it's not what the poster of this thread is referring too. He's talking about actually TAKING damage, but shrugging it off. That's why he didn't bother adding people like Minato, Obito, or Naruto, cause they just dodge.


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## Stermor (Jul 12, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> The Minato wank is too damn strong nowadays. No one area about him until he got KCM, Kage Bunshin, and FTG hax.
> 
> So I guess it's techinically a defense, but it's not what the poster of this thread is referring too. He's talking about actually TAKING damage, but shrugging it off. That's why he didn't bother adding people like Minato, Obito, or Naruto, cause they just dodge.



while i agree minato using hiriashin is avoiding and not so much tanking.. obito's kamui should be counted as defense.. 

his kamui ability grants him the ability to take huge blasts without any motions.. they just don't effect him.. that is not his fault.. it just means the offense is flawwed 

also naruto kinda blocked the most powerful attack(arguable) we have seen yet.. so you can put him on the list for this.. 

also on the equality of the susanoo's.. remember that madara's ribcage susanoo blocked a chou odama rasengan.. without difficulty.. while sasuke was broken by punches and danzo's wind attacks.. 

there is cleary some difference in strentgh of susanoo's.. at any stage.. wether that is large or not depends on how you rank the attacks.. 

anyway naruto hashi and madara cleary rank 1, 2, 3 with their feats of stopping bijuu dama's.. with the killer bee coming in 4th place.. and tsunade(katsuya) in 5..


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## ueharakk (Jul 12, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> It looked like Shinra Tensei and Madara did says he knew the jutsu of the six paths. Of course his preferred defense is Susano'o since it has no recharge time after use.



I don't think it was shinra tensei since Madara having the rinnegan was only a theory to Kabuto* until he pulled it out in the next chapter.*

And thus if madara would have to activate his rinnegan in order to use shinra tensei, it follows that kabuto would have known he had the rinnegan back then.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 12, 2013)

Isn't it possible he just punched the coffin lid off with partial Susano'o?


EDIT: Actually, even just a regular punch/kick wouldn't surprise me.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 12, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> I don't think it was shinra tensei since Madara having the rinnegan was only a theory to Kabuto* until he pulled it out in the next chapter.*
> 
> And thus if madara would have to activate his rinnegan in order to use shinra tensei, it follows that kabuto would have known he had the rinnegan back then.



But only if Muu saw it, and Madara need not maintain the Rinnegan. Kabuto doesn't know what dojutsu Madara is using. He doesn't know what his Edos can do or what they are doing unless he assumes direct control. 


Nikushimi said:


> Isn't it possible he just punched the coffin lid off with partial Susano'o?
> 
> 
> EDIT: Actually, even just a regular punch/kick wouldn't surprise me.



We would see the arm, and a regular physical hit wouldn't have _blasted_ the coffin's lid like that.

It looks just like Shinra Tensei. It looked pretty much exactly like a smaller version of Nagato's when he blasted Itachi, Kirabi, and Naruto.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 12, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> The Minato wank is too damn strong nowadays. No one area about him until he got KCM, Kage Bunshin, and FTG hax.
> 
> So I guess it's techinically a defense, but it's not what the poster of this thread is referring too. He's talking about actually TAKING damage, but shrugging it off. That's why he didn't bother adding people like Minato, Obito, or Naruto, cause they just dodge.



Not a Minato fan, but I can respect that Minato has one of the single greatest defenses in the manga. 

I'm sure Haku and Yamato shouldn't be quantifiable to be considered for their ability to tank anything, yet they're on the list.


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## Chad (Jul 12, 2013)

Naruto's cloak is pretty darn tough as it tanked a Jubbi beam.

Hiruzen's best defense is Enma, who by feats is only as durable as 4tk Naruto. So he isn't really top tier.

Kakuzu's Domu is also tough too as it can cushion any damage from the Initial Lotus.


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## Dr. White (Jul 12, 2013)

Senpou: Mokuton/BM Naruto Cloak
Susano Stage 4 + Yata/Perfect Susano(armored)/Hashirama's Mokuton + Rahsomon
Stage 4 Susano
3rd Raikage RnY
Gaara's Sand defense
Orochimaru's Yang Body/Snake Jutsu/Rashomon
Hyuuga Heavenly Spin
Ribcage Susano
Ohnoki's Earth Golem/Jutsu
Sarutobi's Enma Cage
Haku's Ice Dome


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## kupochan (Jul 12, 2013)

ImSerious said:


> Your list lacks Minato.
> 
> That flawless untouched record



Agreed.

Strongest defense is to not get hit at all.


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## ueharakk (Jul 12, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> But only if Muu saw it, and Madara need not maintain the Rinnegan. Kabuto doesn't know what dojutsu Madara is using. *He doesn't know what his Edos can do or what they are doing unless he assumes direct control.*



when was the bolded shown to be true or implied?  Kabuto knows that shinra tensei is a ninjutsu from the paths of pein, he doesn't even have to see madara's eyes in order to know that he has the rinnegan, he only needs to know he used shinra tensei.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 13, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> when was the bolded shown to be true or implied?  Kabuto knows that shinra tensei is a ninjutsu from the paths of pein, he doesn't even have to see madara's eyes in order to know that he has the rinnegan, he only needs to know he used shinra tensei.



Well you don't seem to be asking about the bolded, you are asking if Kabuto would have recognized what Madara did. The problem is that Kabuto didn't actually see what happened. He just saw the coffin opened. From Kabuto's perspective, does the resemblance between what Nagato did and what Madara did indicate Shinra Tensei? No, because he doesn't know Madara's jutsu so how would he know what Madara did to blast open the coffin? But from the reader's perspective, Madara doesn't do anything like that with his regularly used jutsu and the resemblance is uncanny. Furthermore, Kishi naturally has a reason not to show the same old jutsu over and over again when Madara is already uses heavily recycled powers, and Madara himself has reason not to use Shinra Tensei since he uses Susano'o as his physical defense more comfortably.


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## Veracity (Jul 13, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> Not a Minato fan, but I can respect that Minato has one of the single greatest defenses in the manga.
> 
> I'm sure Haku and Yamato shouldn't be quantifiable to be considered for their ability to tank anything, yet they're on the list.



What makes you think that? They can easily tank shit. Just not strong attacks. That's exactly why they are at the bottom if everyone's list

Minato does not have a defense at all. To my understanding that is. He's not blocking or tanking anything. Simply dodging/avoiding the attack. 

That's like saying goku has a superb defense because he can utilize IT. Just doesn't seem right. & it isn't to me. Minato should not be on the list IMO.


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## Jagger (Jul 13, 2013)

What about Sasuke? He tanked C0 and Jinton.


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## Trojan (Jul 13, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> What makes you think that? They can easily tank shit. Just not strong attacks. That's exactly why they are at the bottom if everyone's list
> 
> Minato does not have a defense at all. To my understanding that is. He's not blocking or tanking anything. Simply dodging/avoiding the attack.
> 
> That's like saying goku has a superb defense because he can utilize IT. Just doesn't seem right. & it isn't to me. Minato should not be on the list IMO.



the s/T barrier?


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 13, 2013)

Minato does have a defense. He seemed quite confident, even after having confronted Kurama directly, that he could raise a barrier to restrain him on his own, which should probably include at least his normal Bijuudama. (It seems fair to assume that he had never seen Kurama use more firepower than that). He also has Jikukan Kekkai, which is a theoretically unlimited defense, provided he has enough chakra to expand the barrier of the space/time warp to the appropriate size. And with his warping of a massive Bijuudama from the Juubi without entering KCM, he should have proved his ability to defend with that technique.

Hirashin itself, however, is evasion, and not defense referred to in this thread. I would suppose that defense refers to a method of deflecting an attack that did not require moving one's own body.


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## Jagger (Jul 13, 2013)

It wasn't Shinra Tensei, for God's sake. It was just a dramatic move to make the readers go "What the hell!" and to add more impact to his reveal and what would be the point of using Shinra Tensei or kicking down such piece of wood. Even more, activating and deactivating his Rinnegan in seconds just for that?

Aren't we getting a little bit carried away?


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## ueharakk (Jul 13, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Well you don't seem to be asking about the bolded, you are asking if Kabuto would have recognized what Madara did. The problem is that Kabuto didn't actually see what happened. He just saw the coffin opened.


Why though?  Why would it be from kabuto's perspective that he just saw the coffin open?  Why wouldn't he be able to see and experience things through madara as well as muu?



SubtleObscurantist said:


> From Kabuto's perspective, does the resemblance between what Nagato did and what Madara did indicate Shinra Tensei? No, because he doesn't know Madara's jutsu so how would he know what Madara did to blast open the coffin?


Wait, so kabuto doesn't even know what moves his edo tenseis perform unless they are in full puppet mode?  



SubtleObscurantist said:


> But from the reader's perspective, Madara doesn't do anything like that with his regularly used jutsu and the resemblance is uncanny. Furthermore, Kishi naturally has a reason not to show the same old jutsu over and over again when Madara is already uses heavily recycled powers, and Madara himself has reason not to use Shinra Tensei since he uses Susano'o as his physical defense more comfortably.


From the reader's perspective, the blasting open of the coffin was simply kishi displaying that madara is super edo tensei not like the rest of them.  

Your post also implies that I'm saying Madara can't use shinra tensei which is not a stance that I've taken.  I think he can use shinra tensei, as well as all the techs that nagato can use (summons might be debatable), though in that particular instance i don't think he used shinra tensei.


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## Shizune (Jul 13, 2013)

Speaking strictly in terms of the abilities they possess that can block or redirect attacks:

1) Hashirama
2) Madara
3) Itachi
4) Sasuke
5) Orochimaru
6) Gaara
7) Yamato
8) Neji
9) Haku
10) Hiruzen
11) Oonoki


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 13, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Why though?  Why would it be from kabuto's perspective that he just saw the coffin open?  Why wouldn't he be able to see and experience things through madara as well as muu?
> 
> 
> Wait, so kabuto doesn't even know what moves his edo tenseis perform unless they are in full puppet mode?



I mean, Kabuto can generally see and hear what his Edos do through their eyes and ears. But it doesn't seem he has any awareness of their own internal chakra patterns. Hence why even when he assumed full control of Muu, he failed to realize he couldn't pull Jinton while split. Furthermore, I don't think that Kabuto ever bound Madara to him fully enough to utilize his senses. At no point did it seem like Kabuto was even trying to exercise any power over Madara other than by influencing him.


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## TheGreen1 (Jul 13, 2013)

BM Naruto isn't here? I mean, BM Naruto's defense is pretty broken.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 13, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> What makes you think that? They can easily tank shit. Just not strong attacks. That's exactly why they are at the bottom if everyone's list
> 
> Minato does not have a defense at all. To my understanding that is. He's not blocking or tanking anything. Simply dodging/avoiding the attack.
> 
> That's like saying goku has a superb defense because he can utilize IT. Just doesn't seem right. & it isn't to me. Minato should not be on the list IMO.



Well I really wouldn't consider Yamato or Haku's body anymore durable than Minato's. 

The best defense doesn't require you to be hit. It's like saying because Mayweather doesn't get hit he doesn't have a defense or can't take a punch... which is simply laughable. And Goku has a great defense despite IT, I don't understand whu you'd use an example like that...


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## Veracity (Jul 13, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> Well I really wouldn't consider Yamato or Haku's body anymore durable than Minato's.
> 
> The best defense doesn't require you to be hit. It's like saying because Mayweather doesn't get hit he doesn't have a defense or can't take a punch... which is simply laughable. And Goku has a great defense despite IT, I don't understand whu you'd use an example like that...



Nobody is talking able their bodies? I have no idea where you even got that concept from. If that was so, then Hashirama and Madara wouldn't be on the top of anyone's list because they have human flesh like anyone else. & we all know Mayweather can take a damn hit. But his defense really isn't that impressive. Especially when compared to his offense. But here we are again, we've branches off subject. Your talking about OVERALL defense. & yes, technically Minato does have a good overall defense. But that's not what the creator of the thread had in mind. He meant strictly barriers/tanking/ or blocking. Not dodging. That's why he didn't add characters like Obito Or Minato . Because their blocking defense isn't great. 

& I mentioned goku, cause he literally can dodge almost anything with IT. But knowing he strictly has that ability, doesn't mean he can take a punch.


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 13, 2013)

Ok people I apologized. I based this on blocking hits such as kunai, katons, etc. but not so much TBB. Minato has to use his ninjutsu to block a TBB while the characters on the list can keep up their defense for a while to block weapons. It's kind of hard to explain but....... Yep


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 14, 2013)

1. Hashirama
2. Orochimaru
3. Itachi/Madara/Sasuke
4. Gaara
5. Ōnoki/Yamato
6. Sarutobi
7. Neji
8. Haku


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## The Prodigy (Jul 14, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Nobody is talking able their bodies? I have no idea where you even got that concept from.



You implied this.



> If that was so, then Hashirama and Madara wouldn't be on the top of anyone's list because they have human flesh like anyone else.



No. We are taking EVERYTHING into account. Including Susano'o, and massive buddha structures, and the likes. 



> & we all know Mayweather can take a damn hit.



Obviously.



> But his defense really isn't that impressive.



You've obviously never been in a fight a day in your life, or have never boxed before for that matter. 



> Especially when compared to his offense.



We're talking defense, not offense. 



> But here we are again, we've branches off subject.



Only because I'm pointing out to you the flaws in your logic. 



> Your talking about OVERALL defense. & yes, technically Minato does have a good overall defense. But that's not what the creator of the thread had in mind. He meant strictly barriers/tanking/ or blocking. Not dodging. That's why he didn't add characters like Obito Or Minato . Because their blocking defense isn't great.



By this logic, many people on the OP's list shouldn't be on it. Defense is defense, period. 



> & I mentioned goku, cause he literally can dodge almost anything with IT. But knowing he strictly has that ability, doesn't mean he can take a punch.



Obviously Goku can take a punch. IT is just an add on to his defense that can be used for defense and offense.


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## Veracity (Jul 15, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> You implied this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maywheathers defense isn't that great when compared to other boxers. Do you understand? Because you seem to not understand shit. Tsunade for example. She has great defense for NARUTO. But would get obliterated in DBZ.

By what logic? Everyone in the CREATOR of the threads OP can create a wall or barrier of defence to block attacks. That's the whole point of the thread. So if you want to act like bitch and force your piss poor and broken logic. Then I suggest you read the post the CREATOR of the thread posted. He agrees with me not you. That's why we both fail to see Minato or Obito in the OP. 

Doesn't change the fact that nobody praises goku for his defence with IT.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 15, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Maywheathers defense isn't that great when compared to other boxers. Do you understand?



No, I really don't. Mayweather has one of the greatest defenses in boxing, period. How you are claiming he doesn't is truly beyond me. 



> Tsunade for example. She has great defense for NARUTO. But would get obliterated in DBZ.



Obviously.




> By what logic? Everyone in the CREATOR of the threads OP can create a wall or barrier of defence to block attacks. That's the whole point of the thread. So if you want to act like bitch and force your piss poor and broken logic. Then I suggest you read the post the CREATOR of the thread posted. He agrees with me not you. That's why we both fail to see Minato or Obito in the OP.



Who gives a shit. I added in people to the thread. So. fucking. what.

I'm not the one saying Obito doesn't have a defense nor Minato. This is called being subjective, rather than objective. As for the OP's list, I had the original people in the thread on my list. They still count if we're talking defense. And the op itself doesn't mention tanking anything, simply rank defenses. Hiriashin and Kamui are apart of this. The op only JUST NOW clarified what was meant by the op. There is nothing wrong with being subjective to find an overall picture, but dismissing something as not true because of whats specifically stated in the op? fuck outta here. 



> Doesn't change the fact that nobody praises goku for his defence with IT.



I'm assuming you mean everybody?


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## Veracity (Jul 15, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> No, I really don't. Mayweather has one of the greatest defenses in boxing, period. How you are claiming he doesn't is truly beyond me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So the OP clarified what it meant. & agreed with me. AND yet you still argue your broken logic. 
Lol you could have based what "defense" means by the people on the freaking list.  But did you? No you argued your point across until you admitted that your were wrong. Then you call it being subjective? Lol that's cool for you.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 15, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> So the OP clarified what it meant. & agreed with me. AND yet you still argue your broken logic.
> Lol you could have based what "defense" means by the people on the freaking list.  But did you? No you argued your point across until you admitted that your were wrong. Then you call it being subjective? Lol that's cool for you.



And please tell me why it upsets you that I do? I'm still being objective, while throwing in some subjective view points on defense, which are accurate I might add. Also love how you can't refute my arguments so you pull this BS "the op only said" card, dafuq?!

Its like talking to a wall with you, you are indeed a moron. I was wondering if you were a dupe at first, but this level of idiocy, holy shit...


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## Veracity (Jul 15, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> And please tell me why it upsets you that I do? I'm still being objective, while throwing in some subjective view points on defense, which are accurate I might add. Also love how you can't refute my arguments so you pull this BS "the op only said" card, dafuq?!
> 
> Its like talking to a wall with you, you are indeed a moron. I was wondering if you were a dupe at first, but this level of idiocy, holy shit...



That's why your point is correct? Lol funny how you still are dead wrong, but like to force your "subjective"'ways in to one. That's cool. Nice talking with you.

& it annoys me when bitches quote me, with the intention of proving me wrong, but in reality, they are dead wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'm wrong about ALOT of things, however, this isn't the instance.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 15, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> That's why your point is correct? Lol funny how you still are dead wrong, but like to force your "subjective"'ways in to one. That's cool. Nice talking with you.
> 
> & it annoys me when bitches quote me, with the intention of proving me wrong, but in reality, they are dead wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'm wrong about ALOT of things, however, this isn't the instance.



And you are also wrong about this. 

Wrong about Mayweather not having a beast defense. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]bxYcsoRu-sw[/YOUTUBE]




 Wrong when you say Minato and Obito don't have a defense (seriously we've literally seen chapters where characters have theorized their abilities and constant panels which places their defense in the top tier category). You are wrong about everything. And i'm even willing to bet you don't even understand what objective and subjective means.


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## Veracity (Jul 15, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> And you are also wrong about this.
> 
> Wrong about Mayweather not having a beast defense.
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



How does Mayweather even pertain to the conversation at hand? His defense just doesnt outclass his offense. Your grasping at straws at this point in time. Yor brought up your shitty example. & again your trying to force your logic on to me. Honestly, I don't care. You are wrong. It was been confirmed by the creator. 

The fact of the matter is, Minato doesn't have the type of defence the creator had in mind. I've proved my point. Minato and Obito do indeed have swell defense, they just don't have the defense thought in mind. They just dodge and move shit. Not block.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 15, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> How does Mayweather even pertain to the conversation at hand? His defense just doesnt outclass his offense. Your grasping at straws at this point in time. Yor brought up your shitty example. & again your trying to force your logic on to me. Honestly, I don't care. You are wrong. It was been confirmed by the creator.
> 
> The fact of the matter is, Minato doesn't have the type of defence the creator had in mind. I've proved my point. Minato and Obito do indeed have swell defense, they just don't have the defense thought in mind. They just dodge and move shit. Not block.



Mayweather is like Minato in that you can't hit what you can't catch. Minato and Obito's defense require speed of reflexes and speed to counter their opponents. Guess what fighting style Mayweather has  ANd you are taking this "creator of thread" crap way too seriously. Its not written law just generalizing and making a list, I made mine including all and then some. Not to mention the OP contradicts himself in saying not Minato's defense because he has to useninjutsu, when pretty much everyone on the list have to use ninjutsu. 

Ga-lee, gotta love that backtracking.


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 15, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> Mayweather is like Minato in that you can't hit what you can't catch. Minato and Obito's defense require speed of reflexes and speed to counter their opponents. Guess what fighting style Mayweather has  ANd you are taking this "creator of thread" crap way too seriously. Its not written law just generalizing and making a list, I made mine including all and then some. Not to mention the OP contradicts himself in saying not Minato's defense because he has to useninjutsu, when pretty much everyone on the list have to use ninjutsu.
> 
> Ga-lee, gotta love that backtracking.



Well sorry about that. I didn't mean it in that way. Obito and Minato aren't included because they dont have a standard way to block something. Take kunai for example all these characters can block it using a shield while Minato just dodges. I am not looking for dodging im looking for blocking like regular attacks not TBB. As I said before it's hard to understand.


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## Veracity (Jul 16, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> Mayweather is like Minato in that you can't hit what you can't catch. Minato and Obito's defense require speed of reflexes and speed to counter their opponents. Guess what fighting style Mayweather has  ANd you are taking this "creator of thread" crap way too seriously. Its not written law just generalizing and making a list, I made mine including all and then some. Not to mention the OP contradicts himself in saying not Minato's defense because he has to useninjutsu, when pretty much everyone on the list have to use ninjutsu.
> 
> Ga-lee, gotta love that backtracking.



I like how you like to completely avoid the entire conversation, and revert to Mayweather? I don't care. His offense still outshines his defense. That's the point of the discussion. I could care less about Mayweather and his Medicore defense honestly. & like I've said a million times, Yes Minato does indeed have some swell defense, just not the defense thought of in the thread.

Look at the post beneath you. It's commune sense. I've proved myself tons of times. This conversation should cease to exist.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 16, 2013)

Kazekage94 said:


> Well sorry about that. I didn't mean it in that way. Obito and Minato aren't included because they dont have a standard way to block something. Take kunai for example all these characters can block it using a shield while Minato just dodges. I am not looking for dodging im looking for blocking like regular attacks not TBB. As I said before it's hard to understand.



I don't have any problem with the list. I already have the list, if anything taking out Obito and Minato is no big deal. But Like boss seems to love claiming things which are simply wrong/straight bs. 



Likes boss said:


> I like how you like to completely avoid the entire conversation, and revert to Mayweather? I don't care.



Because the same fucking logic applies, are you dunce?



> His offense still outshines his defense.



You clearly haven't seen him fight. 



> That's the point of the discussion. I could care less about Mayweather and his Medicore defense honestly.



I *could * care less  truly are an idiot. Mayweather's defense, mediocre?   



> & like I've said a million times, Yes Minato does indeed have some swell defense, just not the defense thought of in the thread.



Yep, but that's not the same shit you were saying a good while back. You love to backtrack. 



> Look at the post beneath you. It's commune sense. I've proved myself tons of times. This conversation should cease to exist.



And yet you don't even know how to spell common correctly 

You've proved that you can backtrack like a mad man, make lol worthy comments on defense, but go "oh no! I meant this!" .


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## Veracity (Jul 16, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> I don't have any problem with the list. I already have the list, if anything taking out Obito and Minato is no big deal. But Like boss seems to love claiming things which are simply wrong/straight bs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn spellcheck.
Just stop your useless wank. Your getting yourself no where. You've lost the entire argument so you've reverted to insults and bringing up Mayweather every chance you get. Do you seriously understand what your doing? Mayweather? Nobody gives a fuck. We're talking about unrealistic Naruto  characters and you want to talk about a boxer? That's nice. The other basis of your entire argument is Minato's ability to dodge? I don't care. His name isn't in the list , so the point is moot. 

To make matters even worse, the creator confirmed my logic. Not yours. 
So what are you gonna argue next? About me backtracking and being a idiot? About Mayweathers defense? About you being "subjective"? 

All of that doesn't matter, if the thread has to do with characters with blocking ability. With Minato not
In the list.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 16, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Damn spellcheck.
> Just stop your useless wank. Your getting yourself no where. You've lost the entire argument so you've reverted to insults and bringing up Mayweather every chance you get. Do you seriously understand what your doing? Mayweather? Nobody gives a fuck. We're talking about unrealistic Naruto  characters and you want to talk about a boxer? That's nice. The other basis of your entire argument is Minato's ability to dodge? I don't care. His name isn't in the list , so the point is moot.
> 
> To make matters even worse, the creator confirmed my logic. Not yours.
> ...



I'm not the one who started flinging the insults, if you can't bang then don't throw, simple as that. And wank? Really... when I clearly stated I'm not a fan, I was just correcting your ignorant claims? 

The same fucking logic applies, you are just completely oblivious to parallels, aren't you? Mayweather's speed.... Minato's speed. Both are extremely hard to hit, why? Because they're both fast as fuck and have the best reflexes. Both use grace and technique of the highest level to do what they do. It truly frustrates me you are this stupid that I have to paint this picture for you. I've never had to explain parallels to anyone on NF, but you fucking take the cake.

Okay, taking Minato and Obito off the list. The simple fact you really put Tsunade on the level of Obito and Minato, defensively and even implied such... it's a bit late talking moot points when you are constantly backtracking, you are the one changing your stance, not me. Being subjective wasn't the issue for me, it was you talking defense as if Minato and Obito weren't beasts in the category, no, it doesn't matter if they were included into the thread, but the fact that you continued saying they had none.

  I'm sorry that I've destroyed your arguments and have to paint this picture for you. The OP just changed that up at the last minute, your argument has constantly changed, whereas mine has remained the same. But of course, you don't know what subjective means, nor what a parallel is, and you talk about shit as if you know, but have no clue. I can't help it that you cannot understand simple logic and that a picture needs to be painted for you.

Anyways, can't take anymore of this nonsense, this is my last reply to you bruh.


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