# Voldemort and his Army VS The World



## Superrazien (Oct 29, 2010)

In Harry Potter they are always saying Voldemort, can/will take over the world. Since Harry Potter is suppose to set in our actual time. Do you think if Voldemort, and his army existed, that they could actually take over the world. 

Voldemort and his Army have all feats from books and movies. 

They go up against all the major super powers right now( United States, Russia, China, ect..) 

Will magic be enough to stop science!?


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## Level7N00b (Oct 29, 2010)

This has been done before. And I am sure the world won.


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## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

Riddle and his crew gets a nuke to the face


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## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

They would win with ease.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 29, 2010)

The only advantage magic has over us is their ability to hide, teleport, and shapeshift via polyjuice. And even polyjuice, once we learned what it was we'd develop codewords/phrases for any worthwhile targets of impersonation.

Any kind of direct confrontation and they get roflstomped. Not to mention the numbers.


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## RandomLurker (Oct 29, 2010)

Does Voldy's group get any magical creatures (dementors, giants etc.)?


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## Level7N00b (Oct 29, 2010)

RandomLurker said:


> Does Voldy's group get any magical creatures (dementors, giants etc.)?



With all the emos and homeless people on Earth, the Dementors are gonna be at a fucking buffet!


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## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah mind control along with the ability to curse objects, create fire that essentially has a will of its own and can't be put out by normal means, is completely useless along with dementors that can suck the soul out of individuals. You can throw the ability to transfigure objects along with killing curses into the mix. 

We have no means of attacking them whilst they could destroy us from the inside out.


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## Nodonn (Oct 29, 2010)

What are you talking about we have no means of attacking them?

This isn't the happy contriveland that is the Harry Potter novels, guns >>> wands in everything but versatility.


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## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> What are you talking about we have no means of attacking them?
> 
> This isn't the happy contriveland that is the Harry Potter novels, guns >>> wands in everything but versatility.



He's probably referring to the Dementors...which by word of god they are apparently immune to everything that was around circa 1998


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## RandomLurker (Oct 29, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> What are you talking about we have no means of attacking them?
> 
> This isn't the happy contriveland that is the Harry Potter novels, guns >>> wands in everything but versatility.



He's prolly talking about dementors.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Oct 29, 2010)

science would win via nukes; But the Dementors are the only problem here they would be able to probably escape the nukes *before they hit the ground* so yeah


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## Nodonn (Oct 29, 2010)

Hmm, dementors could be a bit of a problem.

But I doubt they''ll do much after everyone controlling them is dead. And at that point they're no longer really part of Voldys army.


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## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

> What are you talking about we have no means of attacking them?
> 
> This isn't the happy contriveland that is the Harry Potter novels, guns >>> wands in everything but versatility.


Some of the creatures are impossible to hit with physical attacks, the others are impossible to be found unless they want to be. 

Also too many people live in a fantasy world where they believe a gun allows them to settle disputes outside of their control. A gun is not greater than something capable of killing, transfiguring, mind control, teleportation, torture, explosions. etc. Even if you look at the combat ability of the weapons a wand would still come out on top of a gun, the only thing the gun has over a wand is speed. 

The argument that nukes would win the battle is also stupid. It would make sense if they isolated from our world and we knew their location, seeing as neither of those are the case, it's not a viable option unless you plan on fucking everyone other. 

Even then, nothing prevents them from transfiguring the nuke or banishing it to an isolated area. Teleporting to a safe location is also practical. 

It would actually be in the nations best interest to deactivate the nukes before individuals in a position of power get mind controlled.


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## Shock Therapy (Oct 29, 2010)

nukes, nukes everywhere.


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Bodyguards: MR PRESIDENT! WATCH OUT! (shoot)
President: Oh the ghost thing? It is useless guy I had done anything and this thing doesnt go, apparently there is an emergency meeting in the Senate and I am invited.
(President go to the Senate and see all senators with a demeantor behind them)
Senator: We received a transmision!
Voldemorts: Guy this these things you have behind you can suck your life and kill you, allow me to demonstrate!

-Half of Senators die

Voldemort: You have 24 hours to hand over your nation to me otherwise I will kill you all!

/thread.

I have always said it, political leaders are coward as hell and once you threaten them directly they will comply to anything, they surrender. Unless anyone seriously think the president and the senators are going to give their lifes for the well beign of the people, which wont happen.

I challenge anyone to show me how is the US surviving the above situation, all senators and the president will wake up with a demeantor following them all the day, then voldemort appear and tell them that if they dont hand US they will die, they will surrender the country and quite fast to save their fat asses.


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Some of the creatures are impossible to hit with physical attacks, the others are impossible to be found unless they want to be.
> 
> Also too many people live in a fantasy world where they believe a gun allows them to settle disputes outside of their control. A gun is not greater than something capable of killing, transfiguring, mind control, teleportation, torture, explosions. etc. Even if you look at the combat ability of the weapons a wand would still come out on top of a gun, the only thing the gun has over a wand is speed.
> 
> ...



Nuclear shelters. I rest my case.

We nuke them to hell.


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## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

Nothing is stopping them from putting up protective charms around their headquarters.

That's assuming they would be willing to raze the world to the ground, billions of people can't go inside of a nuclear shelter. What you're suggesting would actually be incredibly stupid in a war situation, it would give the enemy the opportunity to provide a more favourable solution to the government's people.


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Everyone in the US Senate and the President wake up with a demeantor following them 24/7, US isnt surviving that.

Leaders will always fuck their people to save their fat asses, it isnt going to be different this time if surrendering US is the only way they avoid beign killed withing 24 hours they will surrender it.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 29, 2010)

Shield Charms are not going to stop nukes.


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Shield Charms are not going to stop nukes.



The US Senate and President waking up with a demeantor following them 24/7 and ready to kill them if they dont surrender US will stop the nukes.

Why face the great powers directly when you can simply blackmail the leaders of said super powers in surrendering their respective nations?


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## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> The US Senate and President waking up with a demeantor following them 24/7 and ready to kill them if they dont surrender US will stop the nukes.
> 
> Why face the great powers directly when you can simply blackmail the leaders of said super powers in surrendering their respective nations?



Your not taking into account the military at all in this scenario...who might themselves take over with a military coup if the government branch is removed.

also since when is the US the only nation in the world...


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## Blue (Oct 29, 2010)

Good god Voldemort and his crew get gunned down so fast they won't know why they're dead.

You wanna talk about wands > guns? 
This clip came immediately to mind. Watch it. Most badass moment in Stargate.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUWG8p5Frs4[/YOUTUBE]

A wand is a weapon of nothing. It's a tool. Avada Kedavra is a shitty excuse for a bullet.

A gun is what men have been killing men with for 800 years. It's very efficient.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 29, 2010)

Did the OP even say Dementors are in this? Because I don't remember it being said they were standard help for Death Eaters unless stated in the OP.


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Nuclear Shelters+Nukes=Dead Voldermort


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Your not taking into account the military at all in this scenario...who might themselves take over with a military coup if the government branch is removed.



Place a demeantor behind the generals 24/7 and repeat the same you did with the politicians.

Also will this be an open war? Becuase if they are intelligent they can simply do the demeantor plan and rule the US (and other super powers) as a power behind the throne. They can rule the world and neither the military or the entire world will know a shit. They use the demeantor plan with the president and Senators and blackmail them into doing their bidding, the world doesnt even have to know about their existence.



Emperor Joker said:


> also since when is the US the only nation in the world...



It is just an example of how they can win, they just repeat the process in every other nation.



Level7N00b said:


> Did the OP even say Dementors are in this? Because I don't remember it being said they were standard help for Death Eaters unless stated in the OP.



As far as I understood OP was talking about an hypotethical scenario if Voldemort plans have suceeded, meaning he should have control over the magical world and thus Azkabam.


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## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Did the OP even say Dementors are in this? Because I don't remember it being said they were standard help for Death Eaters unless stated in the OP.



Did the OP even state guns, nukes etc. were in it? They are a part of his army along with giants, Inferi and some werewolves. 

I don't exactly think they're needed but I see no reason for their exclusion.
__________


> A wand is a weapon of nothing. It's a tool. Avada Kedavra is a shitty excuse for a bullet.
> 
> A gun is what men have been killing men with for 800 years. It's very efficient.


People have been killing one another with knives for 800 years. Find a better way of justifying your point, your argument is ridiculous.


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## Blue (Oct 29, 2010)

Gunners said:


> People have been killing one another with knives for 800 years. Find a better way of justifying your point, your argument is ridiculous.


I shouldn't need to justify it further if you know anything about the series.

If a wand wasn't a fucking terrible way to kill someone, the entire HP cast would be dead as hell. 
Avada Kedavra is easily dodgable at medium range. Crucio would work pretty well, except having to yell "Crucio!" and announce to everyone in your immediate vicinity that you're a Death Eater, inviting them to light you up like a Christmas tree.

Imperio is only usable by the most powerful of wizards, and must be channeled.

And let's talk about this "Dementor in ur base" plan, which is a ridiculous plan.

Even muggles can feel the presence of a Dementor (as a feeling of abject despair) from at least 50 feet away, if not more. You could get a few people with them, but it would quickly become useless.


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## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

> If a wand wasn't a fucking terrible way to kill someone, the entire HP cast would be dead as hell.


Why would the entire cast be dead? What you're saying can be attributed to guns, if using a gun wasn't such a fucking terrible way to kill someone, entire armies would be dead. 

The people they target also have wands and fight back. James Potter who didn't have a wand when Voldmort attacked was killed with ease, same with Lily you can add snape to the list. 



> Imperio is only usable by the most powerful of wizards, and must be channeled.


So what if it is only usable by powerful wizards? The fact that he has people in his ranks capable of the imperio curse is enough to target people in influential positions. 



> And let's talk about this "Dementor in ur base" plan, which is a ridiculous plan.
> 
> Even muggles can feel the presence of a Dementor (as a feeling of abject despair) from at least 50 feet away, if not more. You could get a few people with them, but it would quickly become useless.


That's not the point I brought across so I'll leave to X to tackle.


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## Blue (Oct 29, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Why would the entire cast be dead? What you're saying can be attributed to guns, if using a gun wasn't such a fucking terrible way to kill someone, entire armies would be dead.


The obvious difference is that pretty much the entire HP cast has had a wand used on them with hostile intent more than once.

And also pertinently: Entire armies ARE dead.


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## Deleted member 45015 (Oct 29, 2010)

There's a reason they had to move behind the scenes for 90% of the time _just to take over their own world_. Had they been able to overpower the magical community by might, they'd have done it, yet...both times they moved in the shadows with secrecy, intrigue and deception as their weapons.

In an actual straight fight they get sodomized by a tactical bombardment.


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

I cant seriously believe some people think real world has any chance. This isnt like Narutoverse vs real world threads where they dont know a shit about language or anything.

Harry Potter people have some hax spells and they are situated in the moder world, they are us just better. Why would the magic world be considered superior if it wasnt?

There are too many ways Voldemort could win this that it isnt even funny, one of those ways were the demeantor plan. From what I saw what happened really is that the Potter series were filled with CIS and PIS on a cosmic scale because the good guys had to win or either because if things turned to be either way the good guys would had stomped so they really used high hax only once or twice.But there are others and again people assume Voldemort will just come and shout "WE ARE POWERFUL MAGICIANS WE ARE GOING TO RULE YOUR WORLD MUGGLES!". For example Hermionie having a time travelling device but never using it to stomp the bad guys 

Hermionie "I can't stand another year like this one. That Time-Turner, it was driving me mad. I've handed it in"

Most likely what she said is "Fuck with this I can solo Voldemort, so Plot No Jutsu demanded that I dont use this shit again" 

Without PIS and CIS there is no way we can win, people assume Voldemort is going to come shouting "HEY MUGGLES I WILL RULE YOUR WORLD IM A POWERFUL MAGICIAN" and fight an open war (which still without PIS and CIS would be lost for us). He is most likely going to strike from behind, for example what is stopping him from using the lucky potion and simply walk to the White House then perform Imperium on the president and repeat the process with every super power president?

In 24 hours the bitch will become the power behind the throne of all the world super powers and the world wont know a shit about it. Real world wont win because they simply wont get the chance to defend themselves Voldemort is going to sneaky attack by a combination of lucky potion and Geass-like curse on every leader.

I dare anyone to tell me how are we going to win against the above scenario, a combination of lucky potion + geass-like curse will end this. Oh and they have time travelling magic of course it depends if they are under the effect of Plot No Jutsu or not as we saw with Hermionie it made the bitch "hand over" a device that could solo Voldemort


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## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

Gaelek_13 said:


> There's a reason they had to move behind the scenes for 90% of the time _just to take over their own world_. Had they been able to overpower the magical community by might, they'd have done it, yet...both times they moved in the shadows with secrecy, intrigue and deception as their weapons.
> 
> In an actual straight fight they get sodomized by a tactical bombardment.



He moved behind the scenes because he had to gain forces, in the 7th book he did take over the magical community by might. There was nothing secret about his control, muggle borns were being hunted down and blood traitors tortured or thrown in prison. 
________


> The obvious difference is that pretty much the entire HP cast has had a wand used on them with hostile intent more than once.
> 
> And also pertinently: Entire armies ARE dead.


People have had guns used on them with hostile intent more than once. You're also ignoring the fact that those who didn't get murdered in battle successfully defended themselves. At times their survival was literally down to luck. 

Arguing that wands aren't an effective weapon because there were survivors on the winning side is beyond moronic.


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Gaelek_13 said:


> There's a reason they had to move behind the scenes for 90% of the time _just to take over their own world_. Had they been able to overpower the magical community by might, they'd have done it, yet...both times they moved in the shadows with secrecy, intrigue and deception as their weapons.
> 
> In an actual straight fight they get sodomized by a tactical bombardment.



There wont be a straight fight, as you pointed out they move in the shadows. So most likely Voldemort's wait of conquering the real world will be by becoming the global power behind the throne.

Oh and they get sodomized in a direct fight? Really? I guess people forgot they have time travelling magic with no set limits


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## Narcissus (Oct 29, 2010)

The reason Voldemort and his army posed a serious threat to the muggle world in the books was because the majority lacked knowledge of the wizarding world, giving him the means to attack in secret. They thought a giant attack was a natural disaster.

If the case was that we knew  of them and went head-to-head, we could do a lot of damage via nukes, guns, etc.

The real issue is the Dementors, which cannot be killed according to J.K. Rowling, and cannot be seen by regular humans. I can’t think of how we would deal with them.


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## Blue (Oct 29, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Arguing that wands aren't an effective weapon because there were survivors on the winning side is beyond moronic.


Problem is EVERYBODY survived.

Spoilers ahead, lol.

Even Sirius fucking Black had like 807 Avada Kedavras shot at him, and the only way he managed to die was to trip and fall into a vat of Dip.

Dumbledore's like PLEASE FUCKING KILL ME
and Snape is like "k, hold really still"

When Harry screams "HOW COULD YOU DO THAT" he didn't mean morally, he was wondering how the fuck Snape managed to hit someone who wasn't a fucking newborn baby with Avada Kedavra.


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## Narcissus (Oct 29, 2010)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Problem is EVERYBODY survived.



No they didn't.



> Even Sirius fucking Black had like 807 Avada Kedavras shot at him, and the only way he managed to die was to trip and fall into a vat of Dip.



Sirius didn't trip, he was hit and stunned by one of Bella's spells, making him fall through the veil.


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

I love how nobody has as of yet debunked my bunker argument 

Also, guns>>>>>>wizards. By a _lot_.


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## TasteTheDifference (Oct 29, 2010)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Imperio is only usable by the most powerful of wizards, and must be channeled.



Malfoy can use it effectively, he's not anything more than mediocre.  All of the death eaters should be able to use it.  Dunno what normal humans could do to stop that, when you could be cursed while asleep, given that muggles can't protect their houses magically.

It shouldn't matter that they can't win through force - they didn't try to against the wizard gov, they just mc'd the leaders


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> If the case was that we knew  of them and went head-to-head, we could do a lot of damage via nukes, guns, etc.



How are we going to attack the wizard world? We are simply outclassed in many fronts, simply they can attack our world we cant do shit to their world. Basically all the battles will take place in our world while the enemy homeland will remain safe forever. Also time travel > everything we have.


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Time Travel in the HP world is so efficient that Voldy used it to back in time and conquer everything, now didn't he?


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> I love how nobody has as of yet debunked my bunker argument
> 
> Also, guns>>>>>>wizards. By a _lot_.



Also, time-travel>>>>>>guns. By a _lot_.


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Also, time-travel>>>>>>guns. By a _lot_.



Remind me again, what is the farthest that they ever went back??


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Time Travel in the HP world is so efficient that Voldy used it to back in time and conquer everything, now didn't he?



Lol it was a plothole, PNJ, PIS, Deux Ex Machina, Divine Intervention, you get what I mean.

The same PNJ that made Hermionie said ""I can't stand another year like this one. That Time-Turner, it was driving me mad. I've handed it in." Aka "The author didnt knew what to do with the hax I had so by PNJ I decided to hand it in" .

There is a "logic" behind this supposedly they didnt killed do that because "time travel was dangerous" because you never knew if what would come could be worse than the current situation, it is still fail logic. That in a battle with no PIS and CIS wont take place. So unless you find a limitation of time travelling in Potterverse (you wont find one because there is none established instead the "is too dangerous" argument was used) then sorry but it is a valid magic.


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## Genyosai (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Also, guns>>>>>>wizards. By a _lot_.



Avada Ke-BANG!


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## Ultra (Oct 29, 2010)

We could always capture some fighters from the other side and force them into cleaning up the dementors after we set an example of what we are capable of through Science.

I always hated how in the books the Wizards acted as if they were better than regular people. If that is the case than why are they the ones hiding within the asscracks of foriegn countries? Because we would kick their asses. 

While each of their fighters posseses more versatality with magic, guns and other conventional weapons are far more effecient and well suited for combat purposes. IIRC, most of their spells can be dodged/blocked by regular people with basic resources like steel. Remember that powerful Wizards only make up a very small percentile of their already miniscule population. Even those people have little ways of dealing with aircraft attacks, exept for their drainable Shield Charms.

It is an inevitable loss for them.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Remind me again, what is the farthest that they ever went back??



A few hours. And Hermione may have gone back a day or two to finish classes.

Not that it matters.


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## Narcissus (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> How are we going to attack the wizard world? We are simply outclassed in many fronts, simply they can attack our world we cant do shit to their world. Basically all the battles will take place in our world while the enemy homeland will remain safe forever. Also time travel > everything we have.



Uh, this isn't the entire wizarding world, it's just Voldemort's army. They don't have time turners. And they'll have to come to use at some point. This is also a Strawman as I never said we would attack the Wizarding world itself. Nor did I imply we'd win.


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## Ultra (Oct 29, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> A few hours. And Hermione may have gone back a day or two to finish classes.
> 
> Not that it matters.



Yeah, to finish classes...

We all know the other side of her personality 

Then again if I could time travel even on that small of a scale I would abuse it like hell.

With that little amount of time travel, there is nothing they could really do. If we had the ability to time travel like they did than it would be pretty beneficial to us because that means more time to build weapons and such. But they really don't have that option.


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> *Snip*



In other words, you have absolutely no proof that it can actually be used to any extent outside of what was used by Hermoine and Gang. You take this and then try to derive a No Limits Fallacy through excuses and nonsequiturs.

Proof or Gtfo.



Genyosai said:


> Avada Ke-BANG!



Pretty much.


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> A few hours. And Hermione may have gone back a day or two to finish classes.
> 
> Not that it matters.



I dont see why it shouldnt, time travel doesnt have any set limits in the Potterverse from any source in fact they dont use it because "it is too dangerous" and they could end up screwing it if they use it massively. But without CIS and PIS it shouldnt matter.

As I said the high hax in potterverse were greatly taken out of the equation thanks to PNJ. We may have technology, but what are we going to do against an army that has drinked the lucky potion?

What is stopping Voldemort from drinking the lucky potion then walk to the president house without anyone to stop him and cursing him with Imperium? What is stopping him from performing the above situation in all super powers presidents? If they use their cards right we might not even know of their presence as I said it is much more likely they win via installing a "power behind the throne" in every major country than by a direct confrontation.

Why would they confront us directly? They can simply install power behind the thrones by combining lucky potion to pass the security with Imperium to control the leader. How are we going to even know they are there? If Voldemort were to attack the real world it would be a sneak attack not an open war.


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## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Problem is EVERYBODY survived.
> 
> Spoilers ahead, lol.
> 
> ...



Um no...Book 7 actually spent a good deal of time (Time that wasn't devoted to camping that is) killing off a ton fan favorites (Lupin, Tonks, Moody, Fred...or was it George...Snape...Hedwig) everybody did not survive...Sirius didn't trip either he fell into the veil after Bellatrix stunned him...because he was to busy taunting her



paulatreides0 said:


> Remind me again, what is the farthest that they ever went back??



a day at most...saying Harry potter can beat any universe with the Time Turners is rather extreme...and really not something that can be done


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 29, 2010)

yeah, those Time Turners are neat, but they aren't exactly the Hyper Zecter


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> A few hours. And Hermione may have gone back a day or two to finish classes.
> 
> *Not that it matters.*



Exactly my point. Even if they _did_ have Time Turners (which _none_ of them have been shown to posses) the amount to which they could actually use it is so miniscule it is useless.


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> a day at most...saying Harry potter can beat any universe with the Time Turners is rather extreme...and really not something that can be done



Again, I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but I already knew this. It was a rehtorical question. I've read the books. A day, two and that is probably stretching by a lot is the farthest that it has even been implied to be able to do. And not only are they not rare, _none_ of V's army was ever shown to posses.

Also, my bunker+nuke combo still remains unchallenged.


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## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> I dont see why it shouldnt, time travel doesnt have any set limits in the Potterverse from any source in fact they dont use it because "it is too dangerous" and they could end up screwing it if they use it massively. But without CIS and PIS it shouldnt matter.
> 
> As I said the high hax in potterverse were greatly taken out of the equation thanks to PNJ. We may have technology, but what are we going to do against an army that has drinked the lucky potion?
> 
> ...



Felix Felicis takes six month to brew...it can't be made on the spot...and Riddle doesn't have a stockpile of it either...so no dice son.


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## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> In other words, you have absolutely no proof that it can actually be used to any extent outside of what was used by Hermoine and Gang. You take this and then try to derive a No Limits Fallacy through excuses and nonsequiturs.



Well lets suppose it has a limit of going back a few hours, it is still a great advantadge. But as I said time travel isnt the only way for them to win.

And why are you assuming we are going to fight an open war? If Voldemort were to attack the modern world it would be a sneak attack by no mean an open war. Possibly by controlling the leaders from the shadows.

What will the superpowers do if all their Senate members and their head of state wakes up with a demeantor following them 24/7 and then they receive an ultimatum that if they dont surrender the nations within 24 hours or do the bidding of voldemort without telling anyone they are going to kill them all? Do you really think those fat bastards are going to sacrifice their lifes for us? No they wont, they are going to try to save their asses.

What will the superpowers do if Voldemort use the lucky potion to bypass the security and then proceeds to use Imperium on the president?. We will not even know our president is beign controlled.

Again you are assuming we are going to fight in our most favourable situation (open war) when it is most likely we will be taken out by quick strategic sneak attack that will result in the installation of Voldemort controlling the presidents or either blackmailing them by threating their lifes directly. How can our armies fight a threat they dont even know exists?



Emperor Joker said:


> Felix Felicis takes six month to brew...it can't be made on the spot...and Riddle doesn't have a stockpile of it either...so no dice son.



And do you think they are going to wage war on us unprepared?


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Would Felix Felicis even stop a wall of lead to begin with?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 29, 2010)

the bullets might veer away or some shit, kind of like the cutscenes with Fortune of MGS2, except this time it's real luck manipulation 

Felix Felicis is literally luck juice

not that it matters here


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Well lets suppose it has a limit of going back a few hours, it is still a great advantadge. But as I said time travel isnt the only way for them to win.
> 
> And why are you assuming we are going to fight an open war? If Voldemort were to attack the modern world it would be a sneak attack by no mean an open war. Possibly by controlling the leaders from the shadows.
> 
> ...



Riddle does not have any of Felix Felicis stockpiled...as said it takes six months to brew...and his death eaters were never shown to have used it...so once again they can't.

Edit:

There's no prep for this match...so they won't have time to brew it either.


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Riddle does not have any of Felix Felicis stockpiled...as said it takes six months to brew...and his death eaters were never shown to have used it...so once again they can't.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> There's no prep for this match...so they won't have time to brew it either.



No prep? Well then I guess it is way harder for Potterverse. 

However again why are most people thinking we are fighting an open war? Voldemort can just blackmail our leaders to do his bidding without us even knowing he exists.

What if Voldemorts make an Apparition at the Oval Office and Imperium curse the president? Or simply threaten the Senate and the President with demeantors killing them if they dont do his bidding?


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Well lets suppose it has a limit of going back a few hours, it is still a great advantadge. But as I said time travel isnt the only way for them to win.



Most military conflicts, and by conflicts I mean _individual battles_ can last a day, usually many. A few hours is near insignificant, especially if the guys you are up against are better armed than you, have more effective weapons than you, far outnumber you, and can kill the one with the charmer to begin with.



Orochibuto said:


> And why are you assuming we are going to fight an open war? If Voldemort were to attack the modern world it would be a sneak attack by no mean an open war. Possibly by controlling the leaders from the shadows.



This took him, how long again? And how many actual politicians did he take over? Not Ministry of Magic Politicians, but _real world_ politicians, as in the actual Parliament??



Orochibuto said:


> What will the superpowers do if all their Senate members and their head of state wakes up with a demeantor following them 24/7 and then they receive an ultimatum that if they dont surrender the nations within 24 hours or do the bidding of voldemort without telling anyone they are going to kill them all? Do you really think those fat bastards are going to sacrifice their lifes for us? No they wont, they are going to try to save their asses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> This took him, how long again? And how many actual politicians did he take over? Not Ministry of Magic Politicians, but _real world_ politicians, as in the actual Parliament??



He never attempted to take over rw politicians, do you think real world politicans could resist Imperium when not even magical ones could?

And what happen if Voldemort simply sends Demeantors to the president house and threaten him to suck his life if he doesnt do his bidding? Blackmail seems like a good choice.

This is a way they can win without the army even knowing they exist.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> He never attempted to take over rw politicians, do you think real world politicans could resist Imperium when not even magical ones could?



The Magical Politicos didn't have armed guards with fully automatic weapons watching their backs most of the day....



Orochibuto said:


> And what happen if Voldemort simply sends Demeantors to the president house and threaten him to suck his life if he doesnt do his bidding? Blackmail seems like a good choice.



Since where are Dementors standard in Voldermort's army??



Orochibuto said:


> This is a way they can win without the army even knowing they exist.



Except they'd be found out real soon like....

Also, can Dementors phase through solid objects?


----------



## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:
			
		

> I shouldn't need to justify it further if you know anything about the series.





			
				Kunoichi no Kiri said:
			
		

> Problem is EVERYBODY survived.
> 
> Spoilers ahead, lol.
> 
> ...





			
				Kunoichi no Kiri said:
			
		

> I shouldn't need to justify it further if you know anything about the series.


Are you trying to look like a fool?


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> The Magical Politicos didn't have armed guards with fully automatic weapons watching their backs most of the day....



Yes, but they arent guarded all the day, they have to sleep or have private time.



paulatreides0 said:


> Since where are Dementors standard in Voldermort's army??



Demantors joined Voldemort and when he took over magical world he was in control of all of them. They are part of his army as they joined Voldemort cause.



paulatreides0 said:


> Except they'd be found out real soon like....



Will they? How, oh you know another thing? Normal humans CANT SEE DEMENTORS, so I doubt they are. The president is going to be blackmailed with beign killed if he doesnt comply and no one is going to know it bar the president.



paulatreides0 said:


> Also, can Dementors phase through solid objects?



To be fair I dont remember, can anyone answer this one?


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Yes, but they arent guarded all the day, they have to sleep or have private time.



And said guards are still within an easily reached distance, as well as night duty guards. So...yeah...pretty much 24/7.



Orochibuto said:


> Demantors joined Voldemort and when he took over magical world he was in control of all of them. They are part of his army as they joined Voldemort cause.



Or because he controlled Askaban along with everything else....



Orochibuto said:


> Will they? How, oh you know another thing? Normal humans CANT SEE DEMENTORS, so I doubt they are.



In the books it's very clearly stated that humans can feel the presence of dementors.



Orochibuto said:


> The president is going to be blackmailed with beign killed if he doesnt comply and no one is going to know it bar the president.



The president doesn't have much power by himself....


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> *Yes, but they arent guarded all the day, they have to sleep or have private time*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Um yes they are...at worst the guards are literally in the next room at the door...they will always be within reach of the president/senator/whatever


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

^That's not even counting the security detail that runs guards, cameras, patrols, etc.


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> And said guards are still within an easily reached distance, as well as night duty guards. So...yeah...pretty much 24/7.



Yes, but I mean is not that literally they have people making eye and ear contact with him 24/7. For example sure outside the oval office is guarded as hell but if you make it inside it without anyone seeing you well, it is just you and him.




paulatreides0 said:


> Or because he controlled Askaban along with everything else....



No, some Dementors rebelled against the system and simply joined voldemort BEFORE controlling Askabam, he had dementors joined to his cause prior to the event, controlling azkabam simply gave them control over all of them.



paulatreides0 said:


> In the books it's very clearly stated that humans can feel the presence of dementors.



When the president feels like an emo or his guards the first thing they are going to think about isnt "OMG a dementor" well it depends on hiw well Voldemort play his cards, blackmail sneak attack or if he is a fucking stupid and declares open war.




paulatreides0 said:


> The president doesn't have much power by himself....



Fine, then do the blackmail tactic with the president and 51% of the senate. Nobody is going to know bar the blackmailed ones so the army wont fight because they dont even know about the threat, not even the police.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Yes, but I mean is not that literally they have people making eye and ear contact with him 24/7. For example sure outside the oval office is guarded as hell but if you make it inside it without anyone seeing you well, it is just you and him.



And they'll do this how, exactly? How are they going to get inside some of the most heavily defended places in the world short of military bases without being noticed??




Orochibuto said:


> No, some Dementors rebelled against the system and simply joined voldemort BEFORE controlling Askabam, he had dementors joined to his cause prior to the event, controlling azkabam simply gave them control over all of them.



He had some. Not all. Far from all.



Orochibuto said:


> When the president feels like an emo or his guards the first thing they are going to think about isnt "OMG a dementor" well it depends on hiw well Voldemort play his cards, blackmail sneak attack or if he is a fucking stupid and declares open war.



You _do_ realize that all the guards are going to be able to feel this same sensation, right? Not just the Pres.



Orochibuto said:


> Fine, then do the blackmail tactic with the president and 51% of the senate.



51% of the senate is going to be well over 100 people. Are you _seriously_ telling me that they are going to take over 100 people without being noticed?

Secondly, don't foget that controlling the Senate doesn't mean much... There are two houses of Congress, the Senate...and the House... And the House is _far_ more populated. Furthermore, to pass anything groundbreaking (like say, amend the constitution) you'd need 2/3rds of _Congress_ _band_ 3/4 of the states to agree on the point as well as the president.



Orochibuto said:


> Nobody is going to know bar the blackmailed ones so the army wont fight because they dont even know about the threat, not even the police.



Again, are you seriously implying that they'll posses over 100 people at _least_ (which still wouldn't get them that far in reality) without being noticed by anybody??

Not to mention that these same people are guarded by highly trained, specialized body guards with high grade weaponry and high-tech survailance systems.


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> And they'll do this how, exactly? How are they going to get inside some of the most heavily defended places in the world short of military bases without being noticed??



Because they cant be seen, when normal humans get near dementors they simply get depressed and feel like an emo.





paulatreides0 said:


> He had some. Not all. Far from all.



Fine, I didnt knew that.



paulatreides0 said:


> You _do_ realize that all the guards are going to be able to feel this same sensation, right? Not just the Pres.



Yes, so? They arent goign to enter "Mr President we suddenly felt depressed is everything ok?" They are designed to take out tangible targets not physic vampires.




paulatreides0 said:


> 51% of the senate is going to be well over 100 people. Are you _seriously_ telling me that they are going to take over 100 people without being noticed?



Yes, again they cant be seen just felt. The dementor can simply write in a paper "Mr President or Senator shut the fuck up dont shout and do what I say". Nobody is going to note it because Dementors cant be seen at most people will notice things get sad around these dudes. However it depends if he has enough Dementors to fill the numbers.



paulatreides0 said:


> Secondly, don't foget that controlling the Senate doesn't mean much... There are two houses of Congress, the Senate...and the House... And the House is _far_ more populated. Furthermore, to pass anything groundbreaking (like say, amend the constitution) you'd need 2/3rds of _Congress_ _band_ 3/4 of the states to agree on the point as well as the president.



I dont see how beigns that can fly and cant be seen couldnt blackmail these people, as long as the number of dementors is big enough. Threat to kill the wife/daughter of the man if he opens the mouth or the man in question and I assure you no one will notice



paulatreides0 said:


> Again, are you seriously implying that they'll posses over 100 people at _least_ (which still wouldn't get them that far in reality) without being noticed by anybody??



Why wouldnt that get them far? They would control all the goverment if they succeed at doing it.



paulatreides0 said:


> Not to mention that these same people are guarded by highly trained, specialized body guards with high grade weaponry and high-tech survailance systems.



And what are the highly trained people do? Shoot to the air? They wont even know dementors are there in the first place, in fact possibly if the president go and tell them "A fucking ghost is blackmailing me " they will think he is nuts, unless the dementor gives evidence of his existence, not that it would change much since they cant be harmed by physical weapons anyway.

The worst scenario Voldemort send his dementors to kill people 24/7 without rest, nation by nation until they surrender to him. While he is safe at the magical world which modern world has no way to attack.


----------



## Minh489 (Oct 29, 2010)

I would like to point out a few things. One bloodlust is on by default so no there are not going to give up till Voldy and his army is dead. 2 the default battlefield for the OBD is the Hyberbolic time chamber.


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Minh489 said:


> I would like to point out a few things. One bloodlust is on by default so no there are not going to give up till Voldy and his army is dead. 2 the default battlefield for the OBD is the Hyberbolic time chamber.



Fuck...... then thats it for Voldemort. I discard all my previous comments, real world rape then.

Basically you destroyed any possiblity for Voldemort to win.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

Minh489 said:


> I would like to point out a few things. One bloodlust is on by default so no there are not going to give up till Voldy and his army is dead. *2 the default battlefield for the OBD is the Hyberbolic time chamber*.



Not really, they're invading modern earth ...so the battlefield would be modern earth


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Because they cant be seen, when normal humans get near dementors they simply get depressed and feel like an emo.



I _really_ doubt that dementors are invisible to infared, and don't interact with the enviroment around them.



Orochibuto said:


> Yes, so? They arent goign to enter "Mr President we suddenly felt depressed is everything ok?" They are designed to take out tangible targets not physic vampires.



No, but when _all_ of them simultaneously start to feel the feeling of what is pretty much described as literally fear and despair incarnate, _at the same time_ they _might_, just _might_ suspect that something is up.

And yes, the might is a _highly_ sarcastic one.



Orochibuto said:


> Yes, again they cant be seen just felt. The dementor can simply write in a paper "Mr President or Senator shut the fuck up dont shout and do what I say". Nobody is going to note it because Dementors cant be seen at most people will notice things get sad around these dudes. However it depends if he has enough Dementors to fill the numbers.



And nobody is going to notice...the pen moving and floating in mid-air by itself??

Furthermore, if Dementors can interact with their enviroment and the physical world, doesn't that mean they are succeptible to bullets??

Also, Dementors have _never_ shown the capabilities to speak or write. Nor has it been implied that they can do that either.



Orochibuto said:


> Why wouldnt that get them far? They would control all the goverment if they succeed at doing it.





Because the Senate only controls half of Congress, there is another house. It's a bicarmal system. And the HoR is _much_ bigger. By a _lot_ of people.



Orochibuto said:


> not that it would change much since they cant be harmed by physical weapons anyway.



Your proof for this??



Orochibuto said:


> The worst scenario Voldemort send his dementors to kill people 24/7 without rest, nation by nation until they surrender to him. While he is safe at the magical world which modern world has no way to attack.



Nukes+Shelters=Dead Voldy's Army

Also, I am tired of this retarded argument. They hide in a shelter and nuke everything else. GG Dementors.


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

Is this an open war? Or it depends in the events that unfold, Voldemort has a chance to sneak attack or the real world will have knowledge of the threat before it attacks?

Basically I just want to know if this is an open war or sneak strikes are allowed, if this is a direct war in battlefields then Voldemort gets raped, if sneak attack is allowed I hold my view of Voldemort winning via blackmail of leader through dementors.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Dear Fucking God, you are still going on about this?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> I _really_ doubt that dementors are invisible to infared, and don't interact with the enviroment around them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Word of god says that the dementors are pretty much immune to whatever was around in 1998...take that with a grain of salt if you wish...but quite honestly Voldemort never even used the Dementors in battle anyways...they were eternally benched throughout year 6 (all they did is spawn and create a perpetual fog around london) and patrolled Hogsmeade and the Forbidden Forest in Book 7...he never sent them out to fight

In short they really weren't a part of his army...unlike the giants which he did send into battle


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Word of god says that the dementors are pretty much immune to whatever was around in 1998...take that with a grain of salt if you wish...but quite honestly Voldemort never even used the Dementors in battle anyways...they were eternally benched throughout year 6 (all they did is spawn and create a perpetual fog around london) and patrolled Hogsmeade and the Forbidden Forest in Book 7...he never sent them out to fight



I understand all that, but Dementors never really went up against anything but wizards (and a few unprotected humans) to begin with. And Rowling never really payed much attention to humans outside of Harry's family and a few others to begin with.

And it doesn't help that wizards used guns about as much as they used everything else normal modern people do, either not at all or very rarely.


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> I _really_ doubt that dementors are invisible to infared, and don't interact with the enviroment around them.



Possibly infrared can notice them, but you cant say for sure



paulatreides0 said:


> No, but when _all_ of them simultaneously start to feel the feeling of what is pretty much described as literally fear and despair incarnate, _at the same time_ they _might_, just _might_ suspect that something is up.



Yet they cant see it, how are they going to do something?



paulatreides0 said:


> And nobody is going to notice...the pen moving and floating in mid-air by itself??



Obviously they arent going to do it when there is people watching but when the man is alone in his desk or some shit.



paulatreides0 said:


> Furthermore, if Dementors can interact with their enviroment and the physical world, doesn't that mean they are succeptible to bullets??



They have proven to be able to interact with it because they burried the bodies of the prisoners that died. Dementors cant be killed by physical attacks. Dementors are supposed to be unkillable.



paulatreides0 said:


> Also, Dementors have _never_ shown the capabilities to speak or write. Nor has it been implied that they can do that either.





paulatreides0 said:


> They could borry bodies
> 
> 
> 
> Because the Senate only controls half of Congress, there is another house. It's a bicarmal system. And the HoR is _much_ bigger. By a _lot_ of people.



As I said it depends on the number of dementors Voldy has




paulatreides0 said:


> Nukes+Shelters=Dead Voldy's Army
> 
> Also, I am tired of this retarded argument. They hide in a shelter and nuke everything else. GG Dementors.



Isnt a nuke a physical attack? How will it kill them, it is pretty much implied they cant be killed.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Possibly infrared can notice them, but you cant say for sure



If they can interact with their environment, they can be picked up. Especially by some form of infared network. And they can even trip laser sensors.



Orochibuto said:


> Yet they cant see it, how are they going to do something?



I'm guessing that shooting for the moving pen would be a _very_ good guess.



Orochibuto said:


> They have proven to be able to interact with it because they burried the bodies of the prisoners that died.



Interact, yes. Carry out anything but menial labor? No. Not at all.



Orochibuto said:


> Dementors cant be killed by physical attacks. Dementors are supposed to be unkillable.





Number 17.



Orochibuto said:


> As I said it depends on the number of dementors Voldy has



No matter how you look at it, they are not doing it without being detected.



Orochibuto said:


> Isnt a nuke a physical attack? How will it kill them, they cant be killed.



Number 17 in the above link.


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> If they can interact with their environment, they can be picked up. Especially by some form of infared network. And they can even trip laser sensors.



Possibly



paulatreides0 said:


> I'm guessing that shooting for the moving pen would be a _very_ good guess.



They wouldnt do it when there is people around obviously



paulatreides0 said:


> Interact, yes. Carry out anything but menial labor? No. Not at all.



Well they have been shown to be able to do some things and follow simple instructions, I dont think writing on a paper is too hard, but you may be right.




paulatreides0 said:


> Number 17.



Well I mean obviously I dont think they cant be killed in the literal sense, if there was a magic that erased you out of existence, a cosmic beign came to attack or something of course I would think they can be killed. But physical attacks like bullets and nukes? I really dont think so, I am trying to find out if they can pass through walls, you may be right they might be able to get killed. But there is really no proof that things like bullets can do it, they cant be seen by normal humans which mean their composition isnt ordinary add this with the fact that they are supposedly immortal and it is a hard one. Obviously I dont think they are literally immortal but I dont think the realm of their immortality is so limited that it ends with bullets.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Well they have been shown to be able to do some things and follow simple instructions, I dont think writing on a paper is too hard, but you may be right.



It is, it's extremely hard. Writing is actually a pretty complex culmination of mental stimuli that requires quite a bit of higher brain function. Dementors have never been shown to be able to speak a proper sentence (IIRC), much less write. In _all_ of their incarnations within the HP verse they are shown as, at most, being limited to a semi-simple amount of mental labor.




Orochibuto said:


> But physical attacks like bullets and nukes? I really dont think so, I am trying to find out if they can pass through walls, you may be right they might be able to get killed. But there is really no proof that things like bullets can do it,



There is none that they can't either. _Nothing_ short of magic has _ever_ been used on said Dementors to begin with. And magic=/=bullets. They are by and far different.



Orochibuto said:


> they cant be seen by normal humans which mean their composition isnt ordinary



Being invisible doesn't really mean anything. The Cloak of Invisibility makes Harry or whoever hides underneath it PERFECTLY invisible, but that doesn't make them impervious to bullets, now does it?

Invisibility=/=Intangibility



Orochibuto said:


> Obviously I dont think they are literally immortal but I dont think the realm of their immortality is so limited that it ends with bullets.



Throughout all of fiction there are Gods and other "immortal beings" who can be killed with bullets, swords, or just running them over with a car.....

That is why in the OBD we divide immortality up into many cateragories. Some are only immortal in terms of life span, naturally they can live pretty much infinitely...but they can still be killed by weaponry.


----------



## Prowler (Oct 30, 2010)

lol magic

crazzy ass muggles make some phone calls, push some buttons, nukes everywhere, everyone dies


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

Except, unlike the wizards, the muggles can actually survive said nuclear holocaust


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> I love how nobody has as of yet debunked my bunker argument
> 
> Also, guns>>>>>>wizards. By a _lot_.



Because it's a retarded argument.  If to win a war you need to glass the planet and have a few politicians survive in bunkers?  Guess what buddy, you lost.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 30, 2010)

Has no one mentioned nerve gas yet?

I doubt the wizards would be able to detect something colorless and odorless.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

Platinum said:


> Has no one mentioned nerve gas yet?
> 
> I doubt the wizards would be able to detect something colorless and odorless.



So what?  You're just going to flood all the cities of the world with nerve gas?  That's what it'd take since Wizards are mostly indistinguishable from normal Humans.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 30, 2010)

Enclave said:


> So what?  You're just going to flood all the cities of the world with nerve gas?  That's what it'd take since Wizards are mostly indistinguishable from normal Humans.



Where does it say that they are in every city in the world?


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

How else are you going to ensure you get them all?


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 30, 2010)

Platinum said:


> Where does it say that they are in every city in the world?



They cant be distinguished from normal humans and they can teleport anywhere instantly, do you think every wizard in magical world is british? Also how are you goint to kill them off if you cant attack the magical world?

A war of attrition in the long run will be deadly for us because we will have our homeland constantly invaded while the wizards will have their soil untouched.


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Oct 30, 2010)

JK already said we win.



Enclave said:


> Because it's a retarded argument.  If to win a war you need to glass the planet and have a few politicians survive in bunkers?  Guess what buddy, you lost.



It's only Voldemort's army, not all the wizard world. They are only hundreds at best.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> JK already said we win.



Voldemort was defeated by Wizards, not Muggles.



> It's only Voldemort's army, not all the wizard world. They are only hundreds at best.



Hundreds who are able to hide amongst regular citizens easily.  Hundreds who also have horrible monsters at their command such as Dementors (who are pretty much undetectable and invincible to muggles).

It's not like this would be a conventional war.  You wouldn't be fighting on a front.  In a conventional war then the modern would would absolutely stomp Voldemorts army and hell even all wizards.  But they'd be IDIOTS to treat this like an actual war when they can and do intermingle with the muggle population with ease.

This isn't an enemy that you can simply drop bombs on or attack with pinpoint precision.  Their strongholds will be completely invisible and undetectable to Muggles.  When not in their strongholds they can look like your average citizen, your average citizen who happens to have crazy magical powers and who's weapon is undetectable by metal detectors and can easily be viewed as a child plaything.  After all, even if a wand is found on somebody, that doesn't mean they're a wizard.  Could be a kids toy.

People in this thread seem to be ignoring this fact.  The threat by Voldemort and his army isn't in firepower but rather espionage.


----------



## Dante Alighieri (Oct 30, 2010)

Voldemort probably loses. The magical governments across the world will eventually ally with their Muggle counterparts, and with that many resources, both mundane and magical, Voldemort gets overwhelmed. 

Now magical world vs Muggle world would be a more interesting fight...


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

Enclave said:


> Because it's a retarded argument.  If to win a war you need to glass the planet and have a few politicians survive in bunkers?  Guess what buddy, you lost.



You _do_ realize that I stated that that was the lazy option, hence why I actually spent time debunking the other points.



Dante Alighieri said:


> Voldemort probably loses. The magical governments across the world will eventually ally with their Muggle counterparts, and with that many resources, both mundane and magical, Voldemort gets overwhelmed.
> 
> Now magical world vs Muggle world would be a more interesting fight...



We have nukes. And chemical weapons. And guns. And tanks. And jet aircraft.

They don't.


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Oct 30, 2010)

Enclave said:


> Voldemort was defeated by Wizards, not Muggles.




Because he didn't bother them.



Enclave said:


> Hundreds who are able to hide amongst regular citizens easily.  Hundreds who also have horrible monsters at their command such as Dementors (who are pretty much undetectable and invincible to muggles).
> 
> It's not like this would be a conventional war.  You wouldn't be fighting on a front.  In a conventional war then the modern would would absolutely stomp Voldemorts army and hell even all wizards.  But they'd be IDIOTS to treat this like an actual war when they can and do intermingle with the muggle population with ease.
> 
> ...



A good part of his army is formed by giants. They won't help that much. I don't remember he didn't have many dementors either, and besides it seems that the major leaders of the world know about wizards, like the prime minister of England, so if Voldemort tries to attack they at least could know what they are going against and make an strategy.


----------



## zenieth (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't understand why people are acting like wizards will win in a straight up fight.

They have vastly superior versatility, but numbers are not on their side and niether is tech, because they're usually adverse to it. 

Voldemort's crew is only winning in the way they did with the Books, espionage which wizards seem pretty damn good at doing. 

A straight up fight will end them perfectly.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> You _do_ realize that I stated that that was the lazy option, hence why I actually spent time debunking the other points.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



and as lazy of an option it is it's also stupid since you'll be wiping yourself out.



veget0010 said:


> Because he didn't bother them.



Your point?  You honestly think the muggles would have made a difference?



> A good part of his army is formed by giants. They won't help that much. I don't remember he didn't have many dementors either, and besides it seems that the major leaders of the world know about wizards, like the prime minister of England, so if Voldemort tries to attack they at least could know what they are going against and make an strategy.



How do you make a strategy to counter opponents who can make themselves invisible, live in completely undetectable homes, can turn you into a teapot with the wave of a wand and LOOK EXACTLY LIKE YOUR CITIZENS.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

It took Voldermort several years just to take over _The Ministry of Magic_, he never even took full control of England.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

Enclave said:


> and as lazy of an option it is it's also stupid since you'll be wiping yourself out.



No, it wouldn't be... Seeing as combined, these shelters can hold well over several thousand people. We'd survive. They wouldn't.



Enclave said:


> Your point?  You honestly think the muggles would have made a difference?



The guys with guns and tanks? Yes, a _lot_ of difference.



Enclave said:


> How do you make a strategy to counter opponents who can make themselves invisible,



IR Goggles.



Enclave said:


> live in completely undetectable homes,



Telescopes have IR sights too...



Enclave said:


> can turn you into a teapot with the wave of a wand



And give away their position.



Enclave said:


> and LOOK EXACTLY LIKE YOUR CITIZENS.



When they do the above.


----------



## zenieth (Oct 30, 2010)

Espionage is not a quick thing Paul and you have to consider when using magic espionage against skilled wizards, there's going to be a huge difference with a real government.

edit: Paul you should know that's complete bullshit, cause that isn't cloaking. That's space manipulation.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> No, it wouldn't be... Seeing as combined, these shelters can hold well over several thousand people. We'd survive. They wouldn't.



And how do you ensure that you don't allow them into your shelters?  After all, they're citizens.



> The guys with guns and tanks? Yes, a _lot_ of difference.



Guns and tanks that will be mostly completely  useless since you cannot detect who's a wizard and who isn't without magical means.



> IR Goggles.
> 
> Telescopes have IR sights too...



How will IR work on something like Sirius' home?  You know, things enchanted so that muggles simply can't look at them?  Besides, do you think your average citizen will be happy with big brother spying into their homes because they MIGHT be a Wizard?



> And give away their position.



Only if they do it in front of a bunch of people.



> When they do the above.



So basically your entire plan involves the Deatheaters doing INCREDIBLY stupid things in order to expose themselves even though they could take over without exposing themselves?

You're a brilliant strategist if I do say so myself


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

zenieth said:


> edit: Paul you should know that's complete bullshit, cause that isn't cloaking. That's space manipulation.



Wait, my bad. You are right on that point.



Enclave said:


> And how do you ensure that you don't allow them into your shelters?  After all, they're citizens.



Because I _really_ doubt that said people would be able to perfectly impersonate the family and relatives of people who _would_ go to those shelters. Those being essentially the elites of the elites.

Nuclear Shelters (at least the self-sustaining kind like the one the president has) weren't really built for your average civilian....



Enclave said:


> Guns and tanks that will be mostly completely  useless since you cannot detect who's a wizard and who isn't without magical means.



And what is the most these magic barriers have blocked??



Enclave said:


> Besides, do you think your average citizen will be happy with big brother spying into their homes because they MIGHT be a Wizard?



While I admitted that I was wrong on this point, lemme simply say:

The average citizen has no way of knowing when military intel satellites are looking down at their home....



Enclave said:


> Only if they do it in front of a bunch of people.



If they do it in front of any target that would actually be of significant importance (a politician or something of the like) then they wouldn't be able to get away with it.



Enclave said:


> So basically your entire plan involves the Deatheaters doing INCREDIBLY stupid things in order to expose themselves even though they could take over without exposing themselves?



Seeing as how, and we've already discussed this, pretty much any person the Death Eaters would need to take control of would be under heavy guard duty 24/7, how are they supposed to do this again??

EDIT: @Zenieth

Well, actually, thinking about it, technically isn't _all_ cloaking tech based around the distortion of light rays and warping them around the object to begin with?


----------



## zenieth (Oct 30, 2010)

75% of those quotes were not mine guy.

Edit: Yes it pretty much is. That's why Harry's cloak is shitty in any place that doesn't just have sight as the only defense and why he was caught a few times. 

The tents and bases however are space manipulation. It's not like they're residing in vacant lots, they're literally making more space in a confined area.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

So again, you're saying to wipe out all life with the exception of a select few politicians.

That's as good as losing the war you realise right?

To wipe out a few hundred you commit world wide genocide of the human species.  How can you possibly think that's winning?  That's called wiping yourself out.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

zenieth said:


> 75% of those quotes were not mine guy.



My bad. My copy&paste must've been buggy.



zenieth said:


> The tents and bases however are space manipulation. It's not like they're residing in vacant lots, they're literally making more space in a confined area.





How did I not remember this? Damn. My bad. You're right.



Enclave said:


> So again, you're saying to wipe out all life with the exception of a select few politicians.
> 
> That's as good as losing the war you realise right?



Few thousand living humans vs. 0 Living wizards. Looks like a win. A win is a win regardless. And again, this is my _lazy_ plan we are talking about.

And no, not just politicians. Elites. Elites are _far_ from being confined to just politicians.



Enclave said:


> To wipe out a few hundred you commit world wide genocide of the human species.  How can you possibly think that's winning?  That's called wiping yourself out.



Wiping yourself out? You could still rebuild a healthy population from scratch with the people that could be saved in said shelters. Easily. So no, this statement is false. The human species would survive. No wizards would.

And again, this is my _*lazy*_ plan.


----------



## zenieth (Oct 30, 2010)

Like I said, if The wizards are given the element of surprise they could take it. Not quickly but in reasonable time. Taking down a full fledged government structure with nothing more than cloak and dagger tactics in a stable country within seven years is damn good by spy standards, hell it's probably reaching near god tier.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

zenieth said:


> Like I said, if The wizards are given the element of surprise they could take it. Not quickly but in reasonable time. Taking down a full fledged government structure with nothing more than cloak and dagger tactics in a stable country within seven years is damn good by spy standards, hell it's probably reaching near god tier.



But Voldermort already had followers and disciples within said system, some of which were very high level elites (the Malfoy). And Voldy only took over the Ministry of Magic, not the actual Parliament itself.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

I'm sorry dude but if you need to wipe out BILLIONS of innocents to take out a few hundred, YOU'VE LOST.

Also, he was focusing on the Ministry of Magic because that's the actual threat to him.  He would have dealt with the Muggles once he was done dealing with the Ministry of Magic.


----------



## zenieth (Oct 30, 2010)

While that's true, most of voldemort's followers weren't originally in those positions when he began. They were there post fall, but many didn't start in those positions when he rose to power for the first time. Also he didn't take over parliament because as far as I could tell, he was like SoL about muggles, and honestly the Ministry of Magic pretty much works as a Full fledged government for the magical society of England.


----------



## Quelsatron (Oct 30, 2010)

A organization of wizards could take over the world no problem assuming it's not some stupid vs scenario where they line up in a row and the other side line up in a row and they nuke/speedblitz/hax the opponent to death. Now voldie and his cronies? Doubtful, considering their continual failure to kill a teenage boy and his little friends.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

Enclave said:


> I'm sorry dude but if you need to wipe out BILLIONS of innocents to take out a few hundred, YOU'VE LOST.



Not at all. And again...I that's my lazy plan....



Enclave said:


> Also, he was focusing on the Ministry of Magic because that's the actual threat to him.  He would have dealt with the Muggles once he was done dealing with the Ministry of Magic.



If Muggles were so easy to deal with, he should have had them under his control not too long after taking control of the Ministry of Magic, and that never happened, despite Voldermort's coming into possession of said Ministry 



zenieth said:


> While that's true, most of voldemort's followers weren't originally in those positions when he began. They were there post fall, but many didn't start in those positions when he rose to power for the first time.



And in his original rise to power Voldermort never took over any government to begin with. He recruited an army, out of dark wizards and outcasts of the wizarding world, and use them to essentially wage war against the Ministry and the rest of the wizarding world.



zenieth said:


> Also he didn't take over parliament because as far as I could tell, he was like SoL about muggles, and honestly the Ministry of Magic pretty much works as a Full fledged government for the magical society of England.



If he controlled Parliament and the Ministry, purging the Muggles would have been all the easier


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Not at all. And again...I that's my lazy plan....



Then what's your realistic plan?  Because your lazy plan doesn't sound so much lazy but rather completely and totally retarded.



> If Muggles were so easy to deal with, he should have had them under his control not too long after taking control of the Ministry of Magic, and that never happened, despite Voldermort's coming into possession of said Ministry



They were no threat to him, thus why he was trying to deal with the actual threat, the magical world.  Once that was dealt with he would have moved on to the muggles.  After all, he may have pretty much taken over the Ministry of Magic, but that was only for a relatively short period of time and he still had many wizards to deal with.  Tell me, why should he waste his time on taking over the muggle world when he still has real threats he needs to stamp out in the magical world?

You seem to be under the impression that he didn't take over the muggle world because he couldn't.  That's never suggested in the novels.  He like pretty much every other wizard in the world considered muggles pretty much a non-issue.  Once he was secure in having taken over the magic world THEN he would turn his efforts on the muggles.


----------



## lambda (Oct 30, 2010)

That's assuming an insane degree of competence from the wizards and a complete lack of adaptability from the rest of the world.

Voldemort got what, 1000 minions? Most of whom lose against middle school kids? They'd lose overwhelmingly with just the inevitable fuck up that happens in every plans, nevermind what happen when the other side, that is the entire world, gets serious.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

It's not an insane degree of competence.  I myself given their powers wouldn't idiotically out myself and with Voldemorts resources am sure I could topple governments.  It'll take a number of years, but is certainly possible and I wouldn't have to be impossibly competent to pull it off, just not an idiot.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

Enclave said:


> Then what's your realistic plan?  Because your lazy plan doesn't sound so much lazy but rather completely and totally retarded.



A win is a win, no matter how much you want to bitch about it. And I have already shown that the wizards would lose to, of all things, a security detail.



Enclave said:


> They were no threat to him, thus why he was trying to deal with the actual threat, the magical world. Once that was dealt with he would have moved on to the muggles.  After all, he may have pretty much taken over the Ministry of Magic, but that was only for a relatively short period of time and he still had many wizards to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

Enclave said:


> It's not an insane degree of competence.  I myself given their powers wouldn't idiotically out myself and with Voldemorts resources am sure I could topple governments.  It'll take a number of years, but is certainly possible and I wouldn't have to be impossibly competent to pull it off, just not an idiot.



You wouldn't get past the security details. Even with an invisibility cloak. Especially if you try to get them while they are in a well defended place, like the White House.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

Lol, why would I personally need to get past the security details?  Send a fucking dementor.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 30, 2010)

Dementors who can't communicate with the target they are trying to manipulate? Wow, how useful....


----------



## Dante Alighieri (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't see what's so complicated with this. Disillusion yourself, Apparate in, either Imperius or Avada Kedavra the target in question, Apparate/Portkey out. Simple, quick, done.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 30, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Dementors who can't communicate with the target they are trying to manipulate? Wow, how useful....



Oh, you mean specifically to manipulate instead of eliminate.

Well, Wizards can turn themselves invisible, they can teleport, they can drink a damn luck potion and waltz right in.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

Dante Alighieri said:


> I don't see what's so complicated with this. Disillusion yourself, Apparate in, either Imperius or Avada Kedavra the target in question, Apparate/Portkey out. Simple, quick, done.



If he does this to a politician, said politician is replaced and more security is placed on him. Voldy just made his job harder. And now everyone knows he's there and pretty much a carbon copy of HP books 

And if he tries that against any groupt of guards that number more than one, he gets shot to bits.

More on my point about replacing said politicians: Politicians are _very_ easy to replace, really, there is a whole chain of command made to ensure this.



Enclave said:


> Well, Wizards can turn themselves invisible, they can teleport, they can drink a damn luck potion and waltz right in.



We covered all of this already...several times....


----------



## Stilzkin (Oct 31, 2010)

I have a hard time beliving such a small group would be able to do shit to the world.

So they manage to kill one politician and then what? There's is tons of politicians to replace a dead one.

If they are going to try to disguise themselves as politicians it would have to be on a largescale otherwise they are going to get very little done. They are also going to have a hard time imitating a person for days who has a lot of duties they know nothing about.

Also what exactly are they going to get done with some control of the government? "hey everybody, we just passed a law that makes everyone in the country our slave"...? They would still have the military and the people to deal with. Their numbers are quickly going to get stretched. They have limited numbers and just one mess up means everything is going to get a hell of a lot harder for them. Killing one of us means very little, one of them dies and its going to mean something.

Thats also just one country, there is simply too many people in the world for them to actually do anything.


----------



## HeavyMetalThunder (Oct 31, 2010)

what if they get nuked?
I think the world wins


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 31, 2010)

Could Voldemort with Dementors cause the "death note effect" within a year? What about not making his presence known and simply limit himself to kill US president after US president for a year as well as the congress and after a year either no one will want to be president or they will be so scared than when Voldy sends a letter they will comply.

Just like what happened with Kira, there was a point where the world was pretty much convinced he could kill anyone so when he demanded anything to the goverments they cooperated immediatly. Voldy just has to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt he can kill the president when he wants and then I dont think however is in charge will deny anything. It worked with Kira, why wouldnt with Voldy?


----------



## Stilzkin (Oct 31, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Could Voldemort with Dementors cause the "death note effect" within a year? What about not making his presence known and simply limit himself to kill US president after US president for a year as well as the congress and after a year either no one will want to be president or they will be so scared than when Voldy sends a letter they will comply.
> 
> Just like what happened with Kira, there was a point where the world was pretty much convinced he could kill anyone so when he demanded anything to the goverments they cooperated immediatly. Voldy just has to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt he can kill the president when he wants and then I dont think however is in charge will deny anything. It worked with Kira, why wouldnt with Voldy?



Charge of the country would simply be switched to an undisclosed person. A demand like complete control of the country is not going to be easily given up. At worst the world switches to anarchy if they somehow manage to keep killing all its leaders.


----------



## Enclave (Oct 31, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> We covered all of this already...several times....



You covered it with situations that wouldn't work.  Honestly, IR goggles?  Please.  We're talking about people capable of making things that muggles simply are unable to even look at.

Hell, you say things like "Oh the president will just be replaced if it's put under the Imperius curse".  Well, how exactly will the muggles know their leadership is under said curse?


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

Enclave said:


> You covered it with situations that wouldn't work.  Honestly, IR goggles?  Please.  We're talking about people capable of making things that muggles simply are unable to even look at.



Yes they would.

And, about your point on what they can make invisible:

Yes, except that said things were not capable of moving. Everything else uses some kind of cloak...which is easy to see through...



Enclave said:


> Hell, you say things like "Oh the president will just be replaced if it's put under the Imperius curse".  Well, how exactly will the muggles know their leadership is under said curse?



Except Voldermort would never get there and out without being detected. And the president can be very easily replaced once he starts doing shit out of whack that goes against the constitution or that tries to support Voldy. And besides, remember that the president has near no legislative power..... The President really wouldn't be able to do much without Congress backing him....


----------



## Quelsatron (Oct 31, 2010)

Enclave said:


> You covered it with situations that wouldn't work.  Honestly, IR goggles?  Please.  We're talking about people capable of making things that muggles simply are unable to even look at.
> 
> Hell, you say things like "Oh the president will just be replaced if it's put under the Imperius curse".  Well, how exactly will the muggles know their leadership is under said curse?



Or how will they even know that said curse exists? Or that there are people capable of casting curses?


----------



## KaiserWombat (Oct 31, 2010)

The World, huh...



ZA WARUDO!

TOKI WO TOMARE

MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA

ROAD ROLLER-DA!

Voldemort gets punched so many times that _Salazar Slytherin_'s balls burst from the pain, and then he gets steamroller'd six feet under

Death Eaters will know who's boss or die.

(If anyone's already made this joke in this thread, well god damn)


----------



## Quelsatron (Oct 31, 2010)

KaiserWombat said:


> The World, huh...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thread quality just rose by 10000% percent


----------



## Whimsy (Oct 31, 2010)

If they play their cards right, they can definitely pull it off. As long as they don't out themselves, we'd have no idea anything was going on.


----------



## Kael Hyun (Oct 31, 2010)

Wow just wow people underestimateing the HPverse so fucking sad. Voldemort banishes the Nukes to somewere else (Seeing as he's hypothetically more powerful then Dumbles (theory is that the only reason he never won a head on duel is because Dumbles had the Elder wand) and Dumbles is said to be second only to Merlin in magical power). Voldemort stomps. Hard.


----------



## KaiserWombat (Oct 31, 2010)

Wat

The World has low-mid *superluminal* reflexes, easily building-busting+ strength, _phasing_ capabilities, telepathy through electronic devices, level-4 regeneration, etc

No chance in hell~


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 31, 2010)

plus

ZA WARUDO


----------



## RandomLurker (Oct 31, 2010)

I myself had an idea of bringing ZA WARUDO into this thread but decided it's not worth it.

Thank you for the much needed quality increaser. :ho


----------



## KaiserWombat (Oct 31, 2010)

Or, since we're in the Hallowe'en spirit...



BLURGH!

Inferi have nothing on Horseface Zombie Jack the Ripper

or for that matter



Watch as the Death Eaters succumb to the melodious tune of Zombie Led Zeppelin

Or they just get literally raped by fucked-up snakes in the head zombie


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

MyNindoForever said:


> Voldemort banishes the Nukes to somewere else







			
				Wiki said:
			
		

> Type	Intercontinental ballistic missile
> Service history
> In service	1962 (Minuteman I), 1965 (Minuteman II), 1970 (Minuteman III)
> Used by	 United States
> ...





> _Speed	Approximately 15,000 mph (Mach 23, or 24,100 km/h, or 7 km/s) _





> _*Mach 23*_



Since when does Voldermort have massively hypersonic+ reflexes again??

Not to mention that is if he even _sees_ the damn thing. You know he damn as well won't see it, it's traveling over _20 times faster than sound_, and it is such a relatively small object, traveling as such a high speed that spotting it before you die is a very unlikely.

And yes, equipping these things with conventional or HE warheads would be a trivial task.



MyNindoForever said:


> (Seeing as he's hypothetically more powerful then Dumbles (theory is that the only reason he never won a head on duel is because Dumbles had the Elder wand) and Dumbles is said to be second only to Merlin in magical power). Voldemort stomps. Hard.



This doesn't really mean jack shit. Why? Because even Albus' feats are pretty weak compared to what the modern world has.

-In the time it takes him to cast two spells, we can empty a full clip of ammunition.

-His spells can still be easily dodged by humans (teenagers, nonetheless) with semi competent reflexes (nothing implies they travel faster than the other ones do); On the other hand, even the weakest modern bullets are supersonic, unless they were designed to be otherwise

-The range of guns _far_ outclass his. _Maybe_ his attack range is comparable to that of a handgun's, but probably not much farther without losing near all efficiency.

-We have tanks...and aircraft...and vehicles...and attack choppers...etc, etc, etc....


----------



## lambda (Oct 31, 2010)

Enclave said:


> It's not an insane degree of competence.  I myself given their powers wouldn't idiotically out myself and with Voldemorts resources am sure I could topple governments.  It'll take a number of years, but is certainly possible and I wouldn't have to be impossibly competent to pull it off, just not an idiot.


 Last I checked, you're not in this vs. Wizards as a whole are pompous asshats who lacks even the most basic knowledge of how things operate in the muggle world. Hell, It's much more likely they go in with a half baked plan and lose the secrecy advantadge. After that, they get their asses beat.


----------



## KaiserWombat (Oct 31, 2010)

Yeah, there's no chance they can beat THE WORLD

THE WORLD is a bit harder to determine, however


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

If you need evidence that wizards were relatively ignorant of how muggles did things, one need only look at Ron's father....


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 31, 2010)

lambda said:


> Last I checked, you're not in this vs. Wizards as a whole are pompous asshats who lacks even the most basic knowledge of how things operate in the muggle world. Hell, It's much more likely they go in with a half baked plan and lose the secrecy advantadge. After that, they get their asses beat.



And considering these are Death Eaters who are Pure Blood supremacists, I highly doubt that any of them took Muggle Studies in school. No way any of the raving lunatics have the slightest idea of how Muggle society works, save Voldemort, seeing as he grew up in a Muggle orphanage.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

And Voldermort graduated from Hogwarts in the early 40s..... So he would know near nothing about modern muggles as well...


----------



## Orochibuto (Oct 31, 2010)

Stilzkin said:


> Charge of the country would simply be switched to an undisclosed person.



US people would never accept to be ruled by a secret leader they dont know who is and they didnt voted for, not even in that situaiton.



Stilzkin said:


> A demand like complete control of the country is not going to be easily given up. At worst the world switches to anarchy if they somehow manage to keep killing all its leaders.



The president knows there is someone that can kill US presidents when he please, he has 2 choices surrender or give his life, what do you think a politicians is going to do?


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> US people would never accept to be ruled by a secret leader they dont know who is and they didnt voted for, not even in that situaiton.



Option 1) Martial Law.

Option 2) They don't have to put in such a person. They can just hide the position of the person and keep them heavily guarded at all times.



Orochibuto said:


> The president knows there is someone that can kill US presidents when he please, he has 2 choices surrender or give his life, what do you think a politicians is going to do?



The President hides somewhere he can't be found. Under a very, very, scrutinous guard complement....like Fort Nox....


----------



## Stilzkin (Oct 31, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> US people would never accept to be ruled by a secret leader they dont know who is and they didnt voted for, not even in that situaiton.




In times of war a lot of things happen that people would normally not allow. The american populace is more scared of immediate outside threats than their government. A tempoary switch of leadership is really not an impossible thing in that sort of situation. 



> The president knows there is someone that can kill US presidents when he please, he has 2 choices surrender or give his life, what do you think a politicians is going to do?




not surrender...

You seem to like to imagine that politician are these corrupt fatasses but no president is going to give up a country because some terrorists are threatening his life. I doubt he even has the power to give up the country under that situation. Seriously do think if some terrorists shot a president and then threatened the next one to give up the country or he will die he will just surrender the entire country? Stop living in some fantasy world.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

Also, why is Orochibuto giving so much nonexistent power to the president? Even if the president _did_ surrender, it would mean jack shit as he can't do much with Congress to back him, and if the Supreme Court declares it unconstitutional and can prove it to be so, he's fucked as well.

There's a reason checks and balances were implemented, part of them being exactly to prevent a situation like this from happening, and to make sure that any one man (or branch of government) didn't overpower the others and do something retarded that screws over the rest of the country.


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 31, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> In Harry Potter they are always saying Voldemort, can/will take over the world. Since Harry Potter is suppose to set in our actual time. Do you think if Voldemort, and his army existed, that they could actually take over the world.



ZA


WARUDO?




> Will magic be enough to stop science!?



This post will probably be ignored but, yes. 


This is not one for the OBD, as it is not a matter of feats so much as it is a matter of canon. The world knows not about magic, save for the chief of staff of certain countries alone, whom gets his memory routinely wiped.

They have guys implanted everywhere and should domination be required they can teleport anywhere in the planet, turn anything into anything, reflect bullets, turn technology useless, shapeshift and mind control people whom they routinely take exhaustive (politicallywise, not technological, poor things) intelligence on.
They are invisible and imperceptible to all non magic beings, and should they choose to release dementors we would not stop them.
Probably because they will have already time traveled to make sure we didn't

Imagine the ministry is at war. First thing: Teleport into all nuclear options and turn them into cows.
Second thing: Imperius the prime minister and all the politicans and rename britain awesomelandia
Third thing: Have brunch


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 31, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> The President hides somewhere he can't be found. Under a very, very, scrutinous guard complement....like Fort Nox....



The wizards proceed to take thirty seconds to find him


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> The wizards proceed to take thirty seconds to find him



And they will get to him without being torn apart by gunfire the moment they apparate how, exactly??

And is outright impossible if said person is an anonymous....


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## MichaelUN89 (Oct 31, 2010)

I think that we might be able to win. THe thing is that using nukes means that tones of people is going to die.  I doubt there are enough shelters for all people around the world. So in the best case we win but not without having lot of causalities and sacrifices and a scar that would hurt mankind for the next decades if not centuries.  

The worst scenario would be that we all die alongside the wizards via nukes, nukes everywhere.


And in an even nuttier scenario, the wizards win via time travel though it is a unlikely scenario.


----------



## Lord Stark (Oct 31, 2010)

Voldemort takes control of the Muggle Ministries and such just as easily as he did to the Ministry of Magic.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> I think that we might be able to win. THe thing is that using nukes means that tones of people is going to die.  I doubt there are enough shelters for all people around the world.



All you would need to save is a few thousand people...and we have far more than enough room for said number of people....



MichaelUN89 said:


> So in the best case we win but not without having lot of causalities and sacrifices and a scar that would hurt mankind for the next decades if not centuries.



We don't really need nukes....



Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> Voldemort takes control of the Muggle Ministries and such just as easily as he did to the Ministry of Magic.



We've gone over this time and time again..... No, this wouldn't work as simply as you think....


----------



## lambda (Oct 31, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> This post will probably be ignored but, yes.


Not really.




> This is not one for the OBD, as it is not a matter of feats so much as it is a matter of canon. The world knows not about magic, save for the chief of staff of certain countries alone, whom gets his memory routinely wiped.


The Hp world doesn't know about magic,  the chance that our workd with it massive amount of cameras, satellites and cellphones camera with internet connection could miss people flying on brooms are nil.



> They have guys implanted everywhere and should domination be required they can teleport anywhere in the planet, turn anything into anything, reflect bullets, turn technology useless, shapeshift and mind control people whom they routinely take exhaustive (politicallywise, not technological, poor things) intelligence on.


What are you talking about? At best, wizards take notice when the leader of their country change and that's it, they have absolutely no dedicated service for muggle surveillance.


> They are invisible and imperceptible to all non magic beings, and should they choose to release dementors we would not stop them.


Right, and you're saying this based on the vast demonstration of muggle weapons in the books.


> Probably because they will have already time traveled to make sure we didn't


You can't change the past with HP time travel



> Imagine the ministry is at war. First thing: Teleport into all nuclear options and turn them into cows.


They don't know where the nukes are. They don't even know what a nuke is.


> Second thing: Imperius the prime minister and all the politicans and rename britain awesomelandia


Oh yeah, because having a wizard constantly behind every single politician, another one behing each of their guards and member of their families is going to be so easy to accomplish and maintain. 


> Third thing: Have brunch


Once dead, sure.



Banhammer said:


> The wizards proceed to take thirty seconds to find him


Using the incredible knowledge they don't have and don't know how to acquire.



MichaelUN89 said:


> I think that we might be able to win. THe thing is that using nukes means that tones of people is going to die.  I doubt there are enough shelters for all people around the world. So in the best case we win but not without having lot of causalities and sacrifices and a scar that would hurt mankind for the next decades if not centuries.


Nukes are overkill anyway.Bombing the shit of the magical world with cruise missiles and planes is more than enough.


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## Lord Stark (Oct 31, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> All you would need to save is a few thousand people...and we have far more than enough room for said number of people....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Accio Football
Voldemort now has the Suitcase with America's Nuclear power behind it.  The world bends to his will.


----------



## lambda (Oct 31, 2010)

And he can't do shit with it.


----------



## Kael Hyun (Oct 31, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Since when does Voldermort have massively hypersonic+ reflexes again??
> 
> Not to mention that is if he even _sees_ the damn thing. You know he damn as well won't see it, it's traveling over _20 times faster than sound_, and it is such a relatively small object, traveling as such a high speed that spotting it before you die is a very unlikely.
> 
> ...



Who said anything about Voldemort doing it to there missiles mid flight? UK's Current stockpile of nuclear warheads: 225

 IE send them right over DC, Area 51, New York City, LA, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, and the whole of china GG major powers, GG. Voldemort gets to watch the muggle world descend to chaos by tea time


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## Lord Stark (Oct 31, 2010)

lambda said:


> And he can't do shit with it.



Accio keys


----------



## lambda (Oct 31, 2010)

Still can't do shit with it.

It's funny how everyone seems to believe all you need to launch a nuke is to press the big red button.


----------



## enzymeii (Oct 31, 2010)

Well, clearly JK Rowling _intended_ for Voldemort to be able to topple the muggle-world, its just a matter of her knowledge about the real world vs its reality.  I could, however, see Voldemort winning by using mind-rape spells to cause a nuclear war and then taking power once all the governments collapse.


----------



## lambda (Oct 31, 2010)

While you're in Rowling's head, can you force her to throw herself out of a window?


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## Lord Stark (Oct 31, 2010)

lambda said:


> Still can't do shit with it.
> 
> It's funny how everyone seems to believe all you need to launch a nuke is to press the big red button.



Its not that simple, correct.  But in all seriousness all he needs to do is use the Imperious curse+Invisibility spells.  
Invisibility spell.
Imperious curse on Nancy (no Secret Service, easier to get to)
Avada Kedavra Obama and Biden.


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## lambda (Oct 31, 2010)

Okay, let's assume that Voldy get that far that easily ( he really wouldn't).

That's the point where the guy in his bunker who received the two confirmations for multiple nuclear launches go tell secret service to arrest the lunatics who just tried to nuke the rest of the world for no reason whatsoever.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 31, 2010)

lambda said:


> Okay, let's assume that Voldy get that far that easily ( he really wouldn't).
> 
> That's the point where the guy in his bunker who received the two confirmations for multiple nuclear launch go tell secret service to arrest the lunatics who just tried to nuke the rest of the world for no reason whatsoever.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 31, 2010)




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## MichaelUN89 (Oct 31, 2010)

lambda said:


> Okay, let's assume that Voldy get that far that easily ( he really wouldn't).
> 
> That's the point where the guy in his bunker who received the two confirmations for multiple nuclear launches go tell secret service to arrest the lunatics who just tried to nuke the rest of the world for no reason whatsoever.




lol

However It is not out of Voldy's capabilities to mind control as well the  guy in the bunker who received the two confirmations for multiple nuclear launches.


He only needs to mind rape-control some people, in order to get the info that he needs and he could potentially nuke everyone.


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## lambda (Oct 31, 2010)

First he has to learn of the existence of nukes. Then to succeed in this he needs to learn of lot information about stuff he doesn't understand in the slightest, most of which are hidden in places he doesn't know and defended by so many security systems God himself would think twice before trying. Then he has to find the right people, most of which have only a little piece of the puzzle.

Finally he needs to be in multiple places at once to mind rape the people in qestion, neutralize the guards in plain sight, the guard behind the security cameras, the others officers and soldiers working at the base....

And for this to succeed, he needs to go about doing all those things without ever raising a single alarm.

I'm gonna go with


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> Accio Football
> Voldemort now has the Suitcase with America's Nuclear power behind it.  The world bends to his will.



It's not that simple.



MyNindoForever said:


> Who said anything about Voldemort doing it to there missiles mid flight? UK's Current stockpile of nuclear warheads: 225



And they are all in one place right? And they are easily accessible right? And they don't take top level government clearance to get there, right? Etc, etc, etc.



MyNindoForever said:


> IE send them right over DC, Area 51, New York City, LA, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, and the whole of china GG major powers, GG. Voldemort gets to watch the muggle world descend to chaos by tea time



It's really not that simple to launch nukes....

There is an entire chain of command involved just to clear the nukes to take off/arm&prep them, much less to actually launch them at targets....



Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> But in all seriousness all he needs to do is use the Imperious curse+Invisibility spells.



No, it isn't....



Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> Invisibility spell.



Hello there IR Vision.



Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> Imperious curse on Nancy (no Secret Service, easier to get to)



Using the Imperious Curse on one person will not do anything to the secret service....



Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> Avada Kedavra Obama and Biden.



And they are replaced by the Speaker of the House and the whoever is after that (IIRC, Secretary of State). And the list of succesion goes on, and on, and on, and on.



enzymeii said:


> I could, however, see Voldemort winning by using mind-rape spells to cause a nuclear war and then taking power once all the governments collapse.



Again, it's nowhere near that simple.

And this is not to mention that most wizards have next to no knowledge about the muggle world. Mr Weasley, who was pretty much _obsessed_ with muggles and everything about them didn't know how a bloody _rubber ducky_ worked. This is a man who actually cares about and extensively studies muggles, do you think Voldermort who cares next to nothing about them and ignores them for the most part actually has extensive knowledge about them on anything??


----------



## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> However It is not out of Voldy's capabilities to mind control as well the  guy in the bunker who received the two confirmations for multiple nuclear launches.



How is Voldermort going to know who these people are, exactly?? Furthermore, how is Voldermort going to get the array of other things needed to launch a nuke (such as the president's confirmation code). Etc, etc, etc.


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## MichaelUN89 (Oct 31, 2010)

lambda said:


> First he has to learn of the existence of nukes. Then to succeed in this he needs to learn of lot information about stuff he doesn't understand in the slightest, most of which are hidden in places he doesn't know and defended by so many security systems God himself would think twice before trying. Then he has to find the right people, most of which have only a little piece of the puzzle.
> 
> Finally he needs to be in multiple places at once to mind rape the people in qestion, neutralize the guards in plain sight, the guard behind the security cameras, the others officers and soldiers working at the base....
> 
> ...



Ok I am going to be  today a troll

If I were voldemor what I would do is: 

1) I teleport to any random house and I use imperius on a muggle family. I explore their minds and I use magic to remove their memories from their minds and I study  the info that I extracted.

I investigate about stuff such as weapons and leaders and important people.

Learning about weapons [x]

I  search for info such as the most powerful weapon ever created

Learning about Nukes [x]

I search for info such as  "who is the president of USA, England,  Russia, etc."

I search for info such as locations etc. 

Then I would proceed to gain control over the minds of people who works on  the F.B.I., C.I.A.  and military institutions.
Little by little exploring the minds of every possible individual, I would search for the leaders of this organizations.  Of course I am aware about the super advanced security systems.  For this I would use magic to  or turn off stuff such as the light, cameras, electric devices, etc. I would use as well anti muggle magic so the humans can not notice my presence.Once I have enough info, using teleportation I would visit the important members of this institutions  and I would gain access to their minds and  other important data via imperius and other mind fuckery. 

Then i.e I would go to the white house during night and I would mind rape the president, the secretaries, etc.  I would mind fuck them as well and get info about those who have access to the  nukes. Then again little by little I go through all the necessary people till I get command over the nukes and I can lol fuck up with the entire world. 

Keep in mind that voldy can use magic to be undetectable to human's and other shit.

Here the key to achieve victory is mind fuckery, the current allies I have (voldemort has a tons of them), teleportation and my antimuggle magic so I can pass undetected. 

With stuff such as  teleportation and levitation/turning into smoke a wizard can trick any kind of alarm system.


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## Orochibuto (Oct 31, 2010)

Stilzkin said:


> not surrender...
> 
> You seem to like to imagine that politician are these corrupt fatasses but no president is going to give up a country because some terrorists are threatening his life. I doubt he even has the power to give up the country under that situation. Seriously do think if some terrorists shot a president and then threatened the next one to give up the country or he will die he will just surrender the entire country? Stop living in some fantasy world.



Yes, because in that scenario of terrotist shot a president the president know the threat is of human nature and can defend against it. What will happen if it becomes clear that is simply impossible to avoid beign killed by dementors if Voldy choose to? If it comes to a situation similar to Kira with the Death Note when everyone did as he said because they believed it was impossible to escape his judgement.

If it comes to a situation when the president KNOWS or at least firmly believe that he only has 2 choices: surrender or die and that there is no alternative, hiding, beign protected or escaping for that.

If ANY politician has the choice of either surrendering or die and they know theyt avoid by any mean that, what do you think they will choose?

_Please note I am well aware that the president doesnt has the power to hand over the nation to enemy forces, however seriously no one is seeing Obama or any current politicians giving their lifes literally before surrendering, everyone who thinks so is deluded._


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Oct 31, 2010)

BTW an important detail taht I forgot to mention

After assaulting a muggle family(ies)  and extracting the info that I need, by using magic I change my appearance to the shape of those persons that I attacked. I would give the order to my followers to do the same. So we look like ordinary civilians and they can not track us. 

Of course we kill all those families.  And on the course we can mix inside the muggle society and gain access to all the info that we need.

Remember that we stole all  the memories of  several families so with said info we can act as ordinary humans. 


And that is going to make easier our infiltration


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## paulatreides0 (Oct 31, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> Ok I am going to be  today a troll
> 
> If I were voldemor what I would do is:
> 
> 1) I teleport to any random house and I use imperius on a muggle family. I explore their minds and I use magic to remove their memories from their minds and I study  the info that I extracted.



Oh yes, real subtle..... And real prone to failure....



MichaelUN89 said:


> I investigate about stuff such as weapons and leaders and important people.



Most people know jack shit about military grade weapons. And even those who are knowledgeable don't know much about anything above a handheld firearm, because near everything else is classified.



MichaelUN89 said:


> Learning about weapons [x]



Won't do him much good.

I  search for info such as the most powerful weapon ever created



MichaelUN89 said:


> Learning about Nukes [x]



Still won't do him any good...



MichaelUN89 said:


> I search for info such as  "who is the president of USA, England,  Russia, etc."



Okay....

I just hope he doesn't try this in the US 



MichaelUN89 said:


> I search for info such as locations etc.



Many of which would be classified, except for maybe a very rough image of what the place looks like. Meaning they'll know just about nothing of the inside of the said place. And this is assuming the person even knows about the place in question....

Also: He still can't reach (pretty much any political figure) them without being slaughtered by guard complement...



MichaelUN89 said:


> Then I would proceed to gain control over the minds of people who works on  the F.B.I., C.I.A.  and military institutions.



Said people also have guns. And guard complements guarding them. Very, very well armed guard complements.



MichaelUN89 said:


> Little by little exploring the minds of every possible individual, I would search for the leaders of this organizations.  Of course I am aware about the super advanced security systems.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Oct 31, 2010)

> Oh yes, real subtle..... And real prone to failure....


Not at all any family knows about a weapon or they have heard of it. And they know what the hell a library is.  Via gaining access to little info you can gain access other stuff. I am simply using the basic knowledge in order to learn where I can get better sources. 





> Most people know jack shit about military grade weapons. And even those who are knowledgeable don't know much about anything above a handheld firearm, because near everything else is classified.



I do not need experts, I simply need to know first the basics, so  I can  guide my way to  those who are actually competent on that stuff.



Won't do him much good.

I  search for info such as the most powerful weapon ever created





> Still won't do him any good...



Yes it does because now he has an idea of what he is facing and what he is looking for. 




> Okay....
> 
> I just hope he doesn't try this in the US



There are several countries where to gather info to begin with. 






> Many of which would be classified, except for maybe a very rough image of what the place looks like. Meaning they'll know just about nothing of the inside of the said place. And this is assuming the person even knows about the place in question....
> 
> Also: He still can't reach (pretty much any political figure) them without being slaughtered by guard complement...


1) I am beggining with elemental locations such as the white house etc. Any idiot could find that by searching.







> Said people also have guns. And guard complements guarding them. Very, very well armed guard complements.


Who cares, when I can be invisible to their eyes via magic or  follow them to their houses and attack them when they are sleeping.  I can transform my self into a birth, spy them  and follow them  with easy. And I  use imperius while they sleep and I get the info that I need. Once i.e. I get the memories of an F.B.I member I stole his license, ID and other stuff and I kill this guy and I change my shape to look like the FBI agent so I can infiltrate myself.






> Yes, he's going to turn off things he can't see with his eyes such as laser trip wires...how practical....


That is why I  gathered info first. To have knowledge about weapons  that kind of security systems. And  with magic I can turn off the lights, etc. of an entire building.






> In most places with good protection, sight won't be much of an issue.


I turned off already security systems. 









> Again, how would he get in without being shot to death by guards??



It is not like I am going to ambush them during day when they are together. One by one when they are weak, alone and they have no chance in hell to  defend their selfs against my magic.  







> he president doesn't know who is in control of shooting off the nukes. And if he did, it'd be one HELL of a coincidence. Also, the president's nuclear launch code changes _every day_.


I was not saying that the president knows who is in control of shooting off the nukes. I am  simply gaining control over the leaders so I can take advantage  over certain info.




>


 gaining control over the military leaders can actually let you know who is in control of shooting of the nukes. 







> Not to sweet, sweet technology, unless you want to suggest he can do something that he's never been shown to do (use space bending magic on himself).


I already explained this stuff



The more complicated a plan, and the more steps involved in said plan, the more easy and likely you are to screw up and get killed.





> Oh, Dear God....




Remember twin towers? 

If a bunch of terrorist can trick the security system what makes you think that someone with super powers such as  teleportation,  mind fuckery,  and other shit is not going to be able to do the same.


----------



## Lord Stark (Oct 31, 2010)

lambda said:


> Okay, let's assume that Voldy get that far that easily ( he really wouldn't).
> 
> That's the point where the guy in his bunker who received the two confirmations for multiple nuclear launches go tell secret service to arrest the lunatics who just tried to nuke the rest of the world for no reason whatsoever.



Okay so Voldemort has the Imperious curse on the President, meaning he has access to all the files and databases of the USA.  You honestly think he won't replace the people at the nuclear bunkers with people who are loyal to him, or people under the damned imperious curse themselves.  Seriously you're underestimating the magical universe.  Mindfuckery is pretty damned useful.  Emperor Palpatine for example casually mindfucked thousands of Senators into viewing him into the damned second coming.  If Voldemort has to he can just use the Imperious curse on the whole damned Joint Chiefs of Staff, Congress, and the White House.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Oct 31, 2010)

Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> Okay so Voldemort has the Imperious curse on the President, meaning he has access to all the files and databases of the USA.  You honestly think he won't replace the people at the nuclear bunkers with people who are loyal to him, or people under the damned imperious curse themselves.  Seriously you're underestimating the magical universe.  Mindfuckery is pretty damned useful.  Emperor Palpatine fo*r example casually mindfucked thousands of Senators into viewing him into the damned second coming.  If Voldemort has to he can just use the Imperious curse on the whole damned Joint Chiefs of Staff, Congress, and the White House*.



This. FUck  they could change their shape to look like the president and other shit.



I hate harry potter but the topic is full of biased shit.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Oct 31, 2010)

Also lol with guns>voldemort


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## Orochibuto (Nov 1, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Are we seriously going on the assumption that people are so simple that a complete and utter stranger can predict how a specific individual who we know next to nothing about individually (on a relatively intimate basis) will react??
> 
> Also, I'm goddamn tired of your false dichotomies, stop it with them.



Of course there are a few politicians who actually that arent ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) but unfortunately it is the VERY small minority.

Whats stopping Voldemort from posing as the second coming? He can make the pope declare him as the new Messiah and do some feats to convince people.


----------



## Stilzkin (Nov 1, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Yes, because in that scenario of terrotist shot a president the president know the threat is of human nature and can defend against it. What will happen if it becomes clear that is simply impossible to avoid beign killed by dementors if Voldy choose to? If it comes to a situation similar to Kira with the Death Note when everyone did as he said because they believed it was impossible to escape his judgement.
> 
> 
> > ..Because the government is so incompetent that at first sight of a president's death they will run to the weebo who will tell them the story of Death Note and how its futile to resist...
> ...


----------



## Orochibuto (Nov 1, 2010)

As I said Voemort can fake beign the new Messiah, he can curse the pope into declaring him the new Messiah and performing some magic feats to convince people.

Convince the pope into declaring that you have all catholics under here, then Voldy proceeds to beat the unbeatable James Randi Challenge and will foce even skeptics into admiting his powers. By doing these 2 Voldy pretty much has control over the world who will see him as the Messiah.


----------



## Stilzkin (Nov 1, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> As I said Voemort can fake beign the new Messiah, he can curse the pope into declaring him the new Messiah and performing some magic feats to convince people.



Large amounts of people will still not believe him. That could at best take part of the world under his control. 

Taking over the world is simply impossible, too many people and people are generally rebellious. Just look at all the assasination attempts at anyone in power. If he starts surrounding himself with people and grows in power he is going to end shot or blown up.


----------



## Orochibuto (Nov 1, 2010)

Stilzkin said:


> Large amounts of people will still not believe him. That could at best take part of the world under his control.



With the Messiah tactic you have to admit he will at least attain some nations under his control, and depending on hiw convincing he is he could end up making US his property which is a huge boost to his forces. The only superpower I see not giving a shit about if the Messiah has returned or not is China.


----------



## Stilzkin (Nov 1, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> With the Messiah tactic you have to admit he will at least attain some nations under his control, and depending on hiw convincing he is he could end up making US his property which is a huge boost to his forces. The only superpower I see not giving a shit about if the Messiah has returned or not is China.



He won't gain control of any nation, people yes, an entire country; no. The united states as religious as they are these days are not going to surrender their political power over to any messiah. The Pope really doesn't have that much power with christianity in the states, the Pope is catholic, so him saying there is a new messiah won't mean that much. That would leave Voldermort to convince people with his magic tricks and whether thats going to convince a lot of christians is anyone's guess. His plan could just as easily back fire and have himself named the third anti-christ, who by the way is supposedly to come to power by means faking himself as the next messiah.


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 1, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> With the Messiah tactic you have to admit he will at least attain some nations under his control, .



not really


----------



## Orochibuto (Nov 1, 2010)

He can use his shapeshifting potions to look just like Jesus. I doubt very much the president is going to dare to say "no" to some guy who had the pope admited he is the Messiah, defeated the Randi Challenge and looks just like Jesus. Even if he has his doubts he will be wary of not making mistakes, because you know you dont want to mess with someone you suspect could be an omnipotent.

Of course nations wont sign a treaty handing supreme power to him, but most likely US and a bunch of nations will follow what he says for example if US is going to pass a law or something and Voldy possing as the Messiah says "You should not do it" you can be sure as hell the law wont pass. A large number of people will suspect he is a faker but nobody is going to dare to mess with a possible omnipotent.


----------



## Stilzkin (Nov 1, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> He can use his shapeshifting potions to look just like Jesus. I doubt very much the president is going to dare to say "no" to some guy who had the pope admited he is the Messiah, defeated the Randi Challenge and looks just like Jesus. Even if he has his doubts he will be wary of not making mistakes, because you know you dont want to mess with someone you suspect could be an omnipotent.



Yes because we all know Jesus should actually look like that long haired white guy you see at churches and the first reaction any politician should have when they see a Jesus impersonator doing impressive tricks is to give up the country. That is exactly the way reality works, there is absolutely no scepticism in the world and people are eager to give up everything to the first person they see.



> Of course nations wont sign a treaty handing supreme power to him, but most likely US and a bunch of nations will follow what he says for example if US is going to pass a law or something and Voldy possing as the Messiah says "You should not do it" you can be sure as hell the law wont pass. A large number of people will suspect he is a faker but nobody is going to dare to mess with a possible omnipotent.



People are definently going to try to challenge an omnipotent rather then submitting to it. If for some crazy reason nations start giving up control over to him there will be a whole group of people willing to try to attempt to murder him.

Seriously there would be some serious conflict if a government attempted to give up any control to a religious leader. It wouldn't be just the government versus the people the politicians would start fighting. Even that would only happen if Voldermort actually managed to pull off the messiah plan. I'm not entirely convinced that a complete retard to all human cultures would manage even get a few people to believe he is the messiah before messing it up.

Just imagine if tommorrow you walk up and saw on the news that the Pope has declared some random guy as the messiah. You also see the "messiah" do some random tricks. Is your first reaction going to be to bow down to him?


----------



## Orochibuto (Nov 1, 2010)

Stilzkin said:


> Just imagine if tommorrow you walk up and saw on the news that the Pope has declared some random guy as the messiah. You also see the "messiah" do some random tricks. Is your first reaction going to be to bow down to him?



No, but if he comes to me and I see him face to face and performs something that simply cant be done by ANY science (for example actually teleporting me or giving me a potion that grants me uber luck for all the day) I am at least going to doubt it and if he ask me to do something I may comply just because I know there is a good chance he is the real thing, and we all know how things end up for dudes who challenge omnipotent beigns, specially the kind that will burn your soul forever in eternity if you behave bad.


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## The Space Cowboy (Nov 1, 2010)

Voldemort taking over the entire world is a laughable proposition.

Eventually he'd be stuck in the unenviable position of trying to kill ideas.  That's all modern nations really are.  They're ideas defined by lines on a map, and constitutional documents.  

You can't kill an idea, except with mass illiteracy and information destruction.  With the sheer amount of written word in the world, and on the internet, he'd be stuck playing a game only an omniscient omnipotent would have any hope of winning.

The Messiah tactic is also of limited use to Voldemort.  To leverage the maximum benefit from it, he'd have to expose himself--and key players in his army to contact with Muggles.  His army is extremely limited in scope, otherwise this tactic would not have been mentioned as a viable one.

Additionally, Voldemort would have to play the Messiah card more or less by the book--or risk his allies revolting.  Essentially it would place restrictions on what he could do in the long run. 

The HP wizards, IIRC, are notoriously ignorant about muggles.  Voldemort's crew is notably myopic for their views on this.  What I'm saying is that Snape, Draco, or someone like them isn't going to be competent to lead a modern military.  In fact, probably none of his wizards will be competent in such areas due to their pre-existing attitudes.  

This means that they're going to need loyal or mind-controlled underlings.  Those underlings can be compromised, manipulated, given misinformation, make errors in judgment, and there's no amount of wand waving or fear that can prevent that from happening.

Attempting conquest means exposure.  Exposure means vulnerability.  Exposure means that suddenly thousands of very bright people have a reason to research and test ways to kill you.  Humans are very good at concocting ways to kill things.

HP wizards have some interesting tactical advantages, but are at a huge strategic disadvantage here.


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## ~Greed~ (Nov 1, 2010)

Alright....This has gone on long enough.


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