# Hokage Kakashi vs Adult Lee



## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

*Location*: Naruto vs Pain
*Starting Distance*: 100 Meters 
*Knowledge*: Manga 
*Restrictions*: Gate of Death

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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 5, 2019)

Assuming Gated Lee gets any Gated attacks at all above Hidden lotus...Like Asakujaku or Hirudora...He slaps no diff.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Jan 5, 2019)

Gated Lee beats him even with Ura Renge. He is faster, stronger, huts harder and the 5th gate boost adds enough to put an old Kakashi body down. Anything above is overkill. Like the punch he used to break a flying Boulder which was as big as a building.


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## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Assuming Gated Lee gets any Gated attacks at all above Hidden lotus...Like Asakujaku or Hirudora...He slaps no diff.



Gai always had Asakujaku and Hirudora, but he was always considered just as strong as Kakashi, that means that Kakashi had ways to deal with those attacks since the beginning of the manga.

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## mikeyman75 (Jan 5, 2019)

This is one of those highly theoretical fights since neither of them have any comparable feats to even base this fight off of but based on what we DO have I think Hokage Kakashi can win even if Lee goes 7G cuz Lee's arsenal is literally Gai's and Gai was always equal to Kakashi 

Theoretically Kakashi as Hokage w/o his Sharingan would make him stronger/faster etc (like taking a heavy weighted vest off if that makes sense since he wielded Sharingan w/o Uchiha blood, at least that's how I imagine it) and have way higher chakra reserves (even comparing to his WA self) but we haven't seen him fight much yet

tl;dr Kakashi takes it high diff in my opinion but there's honestly too little evidence of anything


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## King1 (Jan 5, 2019)

Lee should win since he is faster, stronger and if he can do what Gai can then he wins. Kakashi needs his sharingan to beat him


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## Leaf Hurricane (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> Gai always had Asakujaku and Hirudora, but he was always considered just as strong as Kakashi, that means that Kakashi had ways to deal with those attacks since the beginning of the manga.


Gai = Kakashi with sharingan 
He does not have it here.


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## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

PradyumnaR said:


> Gai = Kakashi with sharingan
> He does not have it here.



Kakashi is stronger now than when he had the Sharingan.

Part 1 Kakashi was not yet considered a candidate for Hokage, but he already had the level to have a 50% chance of defeating his rival, even though Gai already had the 7th Gate.

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## hbcaptain (Jan 5, 2019)

Hokage Kakashi < War Kakashi ~ War Gar (without red gate) <= Adult Lee


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## Leaf Hurricane (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> Kakashi is stronger now than when he had the Sharingan.
> 
> Part 1 Kakashi was not yet considered a candidate for Hokage, but he already had the level to have a 50% chance of defeating his rival, even though Gai already had the 7th Gate.


But he loses edge in a Cqc match with either again or Lee. His chakra usage may have improved but without precog he isn't beating either let alone if they use gates.  He always needed the sharingan to match the gates evb by your logic of p1 gate 7 ( featless ) = p 1 Kakashi. 
And being considered for Hokage means nothing when he is already kage level, even if they select him or not. Both Gai and Kakashi are Kage level fighters by WA and just because nobody considers them for being an actual Hokage doesn't make they are not kage level. And Kakashi being in the Kage position does not make him better automatically. He is still in the same ball park Irrespective of his political title. 

And p1 gate 7 is featless. It was never shown. They were equals based on what they have shown. And by extension what Lee had shown. 
Its like saying Kakashi had the MS in p1 too but was too weak to use it, So p1 Gai  = MS Kakshi.


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## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

PradyumnaR said:


> But he loses edge in a Cqc match with either again or Lee. His chakra usage may have improved but without precog he isn't beating either let alone if they use gates.  He always needed the sharingan to match the gates evb by your logic of p1 gate 7 ( featless ) = p 1 Kakashi.
> And being considered for Hokage means nothing when he is already kage level, even if they select him or not. Both Gai and Kakashi are Kage level fighters by WA and just because nobody considers them for being an actual Hokage doesn't make they are not kage level. And Kakashi being in the Kage position does not make him better automatically. He is still in the same ball park Irrespective of his political title.
> 
> And p1 gate 7 is featless. It was never shown. They were equals based on what they have shown. And by extension what Lee had shown.
> Its like saying Kakashi had the MS in p1 too but was too weak to use it, So p1 Gai  = MS Kakshi.



WA Kakashi had the Sharingan, that does not mean he was better than Hokage Kakashi in CQC, in my opinion Hokage Kakashi destroys War Kakashi in CQC, because after 15 years of training he is much faster.

Hokage Kakashi is much stronger than Part 1 Kakashi, so he is also much stronger than Part 1 Gated Gai.

Part 1 Kakashi is not Kage Level, even Immortals Arc Kakashi was not ready yet according to Jiraiya, so Hokage Kakashi is stronger than them, since he is considered Kage level.

Pain Arc Kakashi if he was considered to be Hokage, so in that arc is when Kakashi reached the Kage level.

Part 1 Gai and Kakashi's *true strenghes* were extremely close according to the 1st Databook:



Part 1 Gai could already use the gates, and use attacks like Hirudora, but Kakashi could not use the Kamui.

Part 1 3T Kakashi ~ Part 1 7th Gate Gai

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## Leaf Hurricane (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> WA Kakashi had the Sharingan, that does not mean he was better than Hokage Kakashi in CQC, in my opinion Hokage Kakashi destroys War Kakashi in CQC, because after 15 years of training he is much faster.


Your opinion. 
WA Kakashi can school an older Hokage kakashi because he has the one thing that equalized any draw backs,  he has precog. He has 15 years worth of old age on him. 


Soldierofficial said:


> Hokage Kakashi is much stronger than Part 1 Kakashi, so he is also much stronger than Part 1 Gated Gai.


I do not know why you say this but duh... 


Soldierofficial said:


> Part 1 Kakashi is not Kage Level, even Immortals Arc Kakashi was not ready yet according to Jiraiya, so Hokage Kakashi is stronger than them, since he is considered Kage level.


You equated p1 Kakashi to 7g gai who has zero feats in p1. So you broadly and falsely say p1 Kakashi = 7g gai and then say Hokage kakashi > p1 Kakashi so he is > 7g gai... Double standards if any.  Like I said, being considered for Hokage position =/= strength. It's not a simple dick measuring contest. You need experience and a good head. Kakashi had that by the time of WA and was made Hokage even though he was weaker than before. 
Gaara was an actual kage when people stronger than him were not considered. Thst doesn't mean he is > them all. There are lot of factors apart from pure strength that determine the kage. 


Soldierofficial said:


> Part 1 Gai could already use the gates, and use attacks like Hirudora, but Kakashi could not use the Kamui.


Lmao... Based on zero proof. Show me a panel of Gai using gate 6 or 7 / Hirudora in p1 and his damage output with it. 
Kakashi awakened Mangekyou along with Obito when Rin died, but was too whimpy to use it. So p1 Kakashi had the mangekyo but was too weak to use it.  So p1 Gai = MS Kakashi by your logic because he always had it, even though we didn't see it, but doesn't matter right?? 



Soldierofficial said:


> Part 1 3T Kakashi ~ Part 1 7th Gate Gai


Nope... 
Part 1 Kakashi as we saw ~ Part 1 Gai that was shown or upto the gates that were shown. 


Soldierofficial said:


> Part 1 Gai could already use the gates, and use attacks like Hirudora, but Kakashi could not use the Kamui.


And Kakashi's true strength includes kamui, which he couldn't use, just like the unseen gate 7 Gai had and could use even though there us zero on panel proof. 


So p1 Gai ~ MS Kakashi. 


Gai's true strength must also include gate 8, so p1 Kakashi must be equal to 8g Gai because true strength right???? 
Wishful interpretation if ever.


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## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

PradyumnaR said:


> Your opinion.
> WA Kakashi can school an older Hokage kakashi because he has the one thing that equalized any draw backs,  he has precog. He has 15 years worth of old age on him.



Old age? Kakashi is 46 years old, he did not lose strength due to old age, he is much stronger than before because when you train you become stronger, not the opposite.



> I do not know why you say this but duh...



Because is a fact, Hokage Kakashi is much stronger, since he is Kage level, while Part 1 Kakashi proved to be much weaker than Orochimaru and Itachi, P1 Kakashi is Jonin level.



> You equated p1 Kakashi to 7g gai who has zero feats in p1. So you broadly and falsely say p1 Kakashi = 7g gai and then say Hokage kakashi > p1 Kakashi so he is > 7g gai... Double standards if any.  Like I said, being considered for Hokage position =/= strength. It's not a simple dick measuring contest. You need experience and a good head. Kakashi had that by the time of WA and was made Hokage even though he was weaker than before.
> Gaara was an actual kage when people stronger than him were not considered. Thst doesn't mean he is > them all. There are lot of factors apart from pure strength that determine the kage.



It does not matter that Gai does not have feats, we know he could use all the gates because his disciple who is a 13-year-old Genin is able to use the 5th Gate with one year of training, so it is logical that Gai can use the 7th Gate, considering also that Yamato had already seen Hirudora, and that Gai and Kakashi were equal is a reality.



> Lmao... Based on zero proof. Show me a panel of Gai using gate 6 or 7 / Hirudora in p1 and his damage output with it.
> Kakashi awakened Mangekyou along with Obito when Rin died, but was too whimpy to use it. So p1 Kakashi had the mangekyo but was too weak to use it.  So p1 Gai = MS Kakashi by your logic because he always had it, even though we didn't see it, but doesn't matter right??



Part 1 Gai could use the gates, but Kakashi couldnt use the Kamui.



> Nope...
> Part 1 Kakashi as we saw ~ Part 1 Gai that was shown or upto the gates that were shown.



Part 1 Gai and Kakashi's *true strenghes* were extremely close according to the 1st Databook



> And Kakashi's true strength includes kamui, which he couldn't use, just like the unseen gate 7 Gai had and could use even though there us zero on panel proof.
> So p1 Gai ~ MS Kakashi.



Part 1 Gai *could* use the gates, but Kakashi *couldnt* use the Kamui.

3T Kakashi = 7th Gate Gai



> Gai's true strength must also include gate 8, so p1 Kakashi must be equal to 8g Gai because true strength right????
> Wishful interpretation if ever.



Gai cant use the 8th Gate without dying, he has never used it in his battles against Kakashi, the 7th Gate has used it, and Kakashi had a 50% chance of defeating him.

Gai (w 8th Gate) >>>>> Gai (w/o 8th Gate) ~ Kakashi

Manga & Databook 1 >>> Your headcanon

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## hbcaptain (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> WA Kakashi had the Sharingan, that does not mean he was better than Hokage Kakashi in CQC, in my opinion Hokage Kakashi destroys War Kakashi in CQC, because after 15 years of training he is much faster.


Why do you think most athlethes retire in their 30ths ? Simply because their body and moves can't be improved anymore, their muscles and articulations are already declining.
The same goes for Kakashi, there is no way he would've become faster/more reflexive after his thirteens. He has already reached his prime in the war arc.


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## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

hbcaptain said:


> Why do you think most athlethes retire in their 30ths ? Simply because their body and moves can't be improved anymore, their muscles and articulations are already declining.
> The same goes for Kakashi, there is no way he would've become faster/more reflexive after his thirteens. He has already reached his prime in the war arc.



The logic of real life is irrelevant to talk about this manga, besides that Kakashi was only 31 years old in war arc, it isnt absurd that Kakashi has trained, you think War Kakashi (w/o 3T & MS) is Kage level?

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## Leaf Hurricane (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> It does not matter that Gai does not have feats, we know he could use all the gates because his disciple who is a 13-year-old Genin is able to use the 5th Gate with one year of training, so it is logical that Gai can use the 7th Gate, considering also that Yamato had already seen Hirudora, and that Gai and Kakashi were equal is a reality.


Why are you assuming stuff??? Show me panel proof.  Don't give me ifs buts and maybes. Kishimoto never gave a definitive power output of gate 6 or 7 until p2. So don't say they are the same because he did it in p2 so he could do it with same intensity in p1 so p1 Kakashi = Gai 7g. Post scans.
There is no proof Yamato saw Hirudora. Where is it even stated??? Post scans.  Yamato only knew of itm it is possible to know a jutsu and what it does without seeing it.


Soldierofficial said:


> Part 1 Gai and Kakashi's *true strenghes* were extremely close according to the 1st Databook


And Kakashi's true strength includes MS as he already awakened it. So MS Kakashi ~ P1 Gai.


Soldierofficial said:


> Part 1 Gai could use the gates, but Kakashi couldnt use the Kamui.


Bruh.... Show me scans of Gai even having access and using  gate 6 and 7 like you so freely state.  I'll wait...
P1 7g gai = Healthy Itachi.... They don't exist.

I can show scans of kakshi awakening MS before p1 events.



Soldierofficial said:


> Gai cant use the 8th Gate without dying, he has never used it in his battles against Kakashi, the 7th Gate has used it, and Kakashi had a 50% chance of defeating him.


Lmao.. Where did you pull that out from???
Show me where it was  alluded that Gai usined gate 7 in his battles with Kakashi... Go ahead.. Dazzle me.  I'll wait.  Don't come back spewing stuff if you can't post scans to prove your claims.
Show me a scan of Gai stating to have or using gate 7 in his spars v Kakashi...


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## hbcaptain (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> The logic of real life is irrelevant to talk about this manga, besides that Kakashi was only 31 years old in war arc, it isnt absurd that Kakashi has trained, you think War Kakashi (w/o 3T & MS) is Kage level?


It is and it was one of the main points of Oro/Hiruzen fight in P1, it's not like a man suddenly become way weaker when he reaches his 60ths.
Besides, these are manga and Databook statements :
-Choza, Inoichi, Shikaku (*38 y/o in P1*) : "As Chouza scatters the enemies with his overwhelming power, Shikaku provides support with the Shadow Bind Jutsu. Inoichi brings them together and releases his Mind Body Disturbance Jutsu. The three all make good use of their strong points, and compensate for each other’s weak points. They are a model of the perfect three-man cell. Even now,* when they come together they display the same supreme teamwork as they did in their prime.*"
-Jiraya (*50 y/o in P1*) : "Despite being over 50, he has full virility, wine, women… Everything is a source of energy."
-Tsunade (*50 y/o*) to Kabuto in P1 : "His Jutsu instincts and sharpness surpass even my onwn ".

Therefore, it's not a coincidence if the author brough an asspull like purple lightning out of nowhere, without Sharingan, Kakashi simply doesn't have the Kage level and won't reach no matter how hard he trains.



> it isnt absurd that Kakashi has trained, you think War Kakashi (w/o 3T & MS) is Kage level?


With the same logic as above, even if tries, Kakashi's body can't follow, training can only help him maintain his level which is already declining.
Go ask our real world athlethes and they will give you the answer. Naruto's world follow the same flow.


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## Ayala (Jan 5, 2019)

I believe there's a serious downplaying of Hokage Kakashi going around. It doesn't make sense for a soldier to be able to beat his kage low diff (excluding anomalies like Naruto and Sasuke), it's something that doesn't fit with Hokage's theme. It's like saying Gai would have wiped the floor with Tsunade or Hiruzen. 

Now, Kakashi is used as a measuring stick for power, his power is known even to the kids of Konoha. He's considered a war legend who can destroy countries (and this hype was given to the likes of Orochimaru and Sasori), and even before he wore the hat, he could contend with a foe that was above A. Add to that years to perfection and add new skills, and he's strong alright. 

Going with him.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Jan 5, 2019)

Kakashi does not scale to Lee who is basically a younger, fitter and stronger version of the guy he  Is equated to, the same way a Sannin scales to WA masters at their peak. Bad comparison.


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## Gianfi (Jan 5, 2019)

Adult Lee is mostly featess. He was already high jounin during the war imo, and if he grew a little he should be at least low or mid kage by now, so in theory he should win. However it wouldn't be crazy if Kakashi were still stronger than him


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## Leaf Hurricane (Jan 5, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Adult Lee is mostly featess. He was already high jounin during the war imo, and if he grew a little he should be at least low or mid kage by now, so in theory he should win. However it wouldn't be crazy if Kakashi were still stronger than him


Didn't he punch a huge rock or something in half, dont know any other feats though. It's not Lee shippuden or Lee next generation to care about him.


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## Gianfi (Jan 5, 2019)

PradyumnaR said:


> Didn't he punch a huge rock or something in half, dont know any other feats though. It's not Lee shippuden or Lee next generation to care about him.


Yeah, though to be fari he was also helped by other gate users.. and that's basically it. I want to see him fight at least once before I decide who wins. Current Kakashi would also need some more feats tbh


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## PrimeRichard (Jan 5, 2019)

Assuming Adult lee has up to seven gate then he should stomp kakashi. Last lee busted a meteor(although not that big) which kakashi has no defense strong enough to block it. 
Hirudora destroy kakashi not to mention lee is physically stronger and faster than him. 
Lee midd diff due to kakashi experience


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## MaruUchiha (Jan 5, 2019)

Been a couple days since we got a Spite Thread from you

Lee shit diffs


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## Shazam (Jan 5, 2019)

I wonder what people assume about Hokage Kakashi if they haven't read the novels


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## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Been a couple days since we got a Spite Thread from you
> 
> Lee shit diffs



I hope you're trolling, only you can believe that a battle between 2 Low Kage is a Spite Thread.

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## MaruUchiha (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> I hope you're trolling, only you can believe that a battle between 2 Low Kage is a Spite Thread.


Neither are Low Kage or on the same tier


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## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Neither are Low Kage or on the same tier



Yes, they 2 are Low Kage and they are in the same tier.

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## Shazam (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> Yes, they 2 are Low Kage and they are in the same tier.



Do you consider A4 low kage?

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## strongestrinneganuser (Jan 5, 2019)

kakashi


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## Soldierofficial (Jan 5, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Do you consider A4 low kage?



Yes.

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## Shazam (Jan 5, 2019)

Soldierofficial said:


> Yes.



Seems your brackets are smaller then most then. Ok was just asking


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