# Prime Rayleigh vs Shanks



## Pirao (Dec 16, 2014)

Who do you think would win this, Yonkou or PK's first mate?


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 16, 2014)

Rayleigh because I like him more.

*Spoiler*: __ 



Seriously though, I personally don't think there's anyone alive on the level of the Old Generation in their Prime, least of all Rayleigh, who was on par with an Admiral even after over two decades of drinking, gambling, and slacking off. Can obviously change if Oda shows us otherwise, but for now, I'll pick Rayleigh over Shanks anyday.


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## Furinji Saiga (Dec 16, 2014)

Can go either way or maybe with the benefit to Shanks.


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## Ruse (Dec 16, 2014)

Ray with extreme diff.


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## tanman (Dec 16, 2014)

Prime?
Yeah. I'll say he extreme diffs.


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## Datassassin (Dec 16, 2014)

Shanks was a rough equivalent of Old WB.

Rayleigh, in his Prime, would have only been a shade weaker than Roger, Prime WB's equal.

Shanks should lose and it shouldn't be close. I don't think anyone from Shanks' generation is near the level of Roger's.


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## savior2005 (Dec 16, 2014)

Honestly, I'd say they are dead even.


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 16, 2014)

Prime rayleigh should honestly take this with High extreme difficulty. We know just how strong he was in his prime based on him fending off an Admiral in his deteriorated state. The difference between their strength though should not be much at all.


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## Orca (Dec 16, 2014)

Could go either way. I would only put Roger and WB as the clear superiors over the top dogs of this gen.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Dec 16, 2014)

They're probably equal or Shanks is marginally stronger; it's hard to say right now. However, we do know that Shanks' Conqueror's Haki is stronger and more potent, considering it's the only form we've seen that causes physical damage. He also has enough power to clash with Whitebeard evenly - in terms of physical strength - while his Haki either stalemates or is superior to WB's own. Whitebeard took the time to wank Shanks in their meeting, too, which is very interesting when coming out of his mouth. 

Shanks has the portrayal of walking into Marineford; stopping a bloodlusted admiral in his tracks; basically ending the war; and scaring off the guy who was threatening to sink Marineford moments before. On the other hand, Rayleigh has the benefit of being Roger's closest mate, but Shanks was the apprentice that inherited his captain's hat and made a name for himself. Ray also held off and could have possibly defeated an admiral while rusty and out of shape, which should be worth something at the very least. 
But it's something I'd expect from Shanks in the same circumstance, too. 

In the end, I think Shanks is just a stronger version of Prime Rayleigh. They're probably evenly matched in swordsmanship, but the former likely has better Haki that Oda will most certainly use to further explain the mechanics later on.


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## Datassassin (Dec 16, 2014)

Shanks' CoC haki is the most impressive in the story so far with it affecting solid matter, but in an SBS Oda said current Rayleigh and Shanks both would have taken out the 100000 Fishmen with their haki so I don't think Shanks' CoC would be of much use in a fight with Prime Rayleigh.


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## Luke (Dec 16, 2014)

Ray extreme diff.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 16, 2014)

Prime Ray high high diff.


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## Sure (Dec 16, 2014)

Considering Rayleigh can go toe to toe with Admiral Kizaru without being in active combat for 20 years, I think Prime Rayleigh could do a number on Shanks


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## barreltheif (Dec 16, 2014)

Rayleigh high diff.
Rayleigh should be comparable to EoS Zoro, who is stronger than Mihawk, who is stronger than Shanks.


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## Krippy (Dec 16, 2014)

Ray High-Extreme.


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## Canute87 (Dec 16, 2014)

Prime Rayleigh extreme difficulty.


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## Hand Banana (Dec 16, 2014)

Prime Rayleigh, not even a sweat drop.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Dec 16, 2014)

Old out of shape Rayleigh had almost the same portrayal as prime Shanks
Prime Rayleigh should win high diff
Previous WSS>Yonkou


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## jNdee~ (Dec 16, 2014)

I like Shanks more, so Shanks.


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## Lawliet (Dec 16, 2014)

Buggy wins.


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## Dr. White (Dec 16, 2014)

Dead even. Rayleigh's THC Haki may give him the slight edge though.


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## Dunno (Dec 17, 2014)

Rayleigh probably. 

EoS Zoro ~ Prime Rayleigh
Mihawk ~ Shanks

The difficulty should be about the same as the one Zoro defeats Mihawk with by the EoS, at least extreme diff.


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## trance (Dec 17, 2014)

Rayleigh high difficulty.


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## Amol (Dec 17, 2014)

Shanks first have to prove me that he is even on Old WB's level(He may have reached to Old WB level over time skip but who knows).
Prime Ray is faster, healthier and more lethal than Old WB.
Prime Ray wins with High(mid) diff .
Currently no one is stronger than Legends.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

Only ppl I really know that are above everyone else are WB and Roger and likely Garp in their prime.

I don't buy the shit that says Old Gen completely shits on Mid Gen. Minus the 2 strongest and possibly Garp, I say the Mid Gen heavyweights are on the same level.

I believe that Prime Ray is strong as fuck, but don't sleep on Shanks. He's one the icons of the middle age, he has a reputation that rivals old WB.


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## barreltheif (Dec 17, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Rayleigh probably.
> 
> EoS Zoro ~ Prime Rayleigh
> Mihawk ~ Shanks
> ...




Just as Zoro as the WSS will be above Mihawk, Mihawk as the WSS is above Shanks. Assuming prime Rayleigh is at least equal to EoS Zoro, the gap between them and Shanks is big enough to fit people between them.


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## Orca (Dec 17, 2014)

Trance said:


> Rayleigh high difficulty.



How much diff do you think Shanks/Akainu will need for Fuji?


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## Pirao (Dec 17, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Just as Zoro as the WSS will be above Mihawk, Mihawk as the WSS is above Shanks. Assuming prime Rayleigh is at least equal to EoS Zoro, the gap between them and Shanks is big enough to fit people between them.



Rayleigh should be slightly inferior to EoS Zoro, after all if Luffy will surpass Roger, it only makes sense that Zoro will surpass Rayleigh too.


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## barreltheif (Dec 17, 2014)

Pirao said:


> Rayleigh should be slightly inferior to EoS Zoro, after all if Luffy will surpass Roger, it only makes sense that Zoro will surpass Rayleigh too.




I'm not really sure that Luffy will surpass Roger/WB in strength though. If anything, I think it's more likely that he'll be a little weaker than them, but still go on to do greater things. That's pretty much how it always is for Luffy; he accomplishes a lot despite being the underdog in strength. He has been weaker than every major villain, after all.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

BB yields two devil fruits. Do you think he won't surpass Roger/WB's level? I certainly think he will..

and, there's no proof of Shanks being inferior to Mihawk.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 17, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> *I'am not really sure that Luffy will surpass Roger/WB in strength though. If anything, I think it's more likely that he'll be a little weaker than them, but still go on to do greater things.* That's pretty much how it always is for Luffy; he accomplishes a lot despite being the underdog in strength. He has been weaker than every major villain, after all.



 is this bruv?


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## barreltheif (Dec 17, 2014)

Battousai said:


> BB yields two devil fruits. Do you think he won't surpass Roger/WB's level? I certainly think he will..
> 
> and, there's no proof of Shanks being inferior to Mihawk.




I said nothing about BB. I said I'm not sure that Luffy wlll surpass them. Luffy will almost certainly have an enormously uphill fight against BB and might not be quite as strong as BB when he beats him. Just like how every saga antagonist ever has been stronger than Luffy.

WSS


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## Amol (Dec 17, 2014)

barreltheif's logic is as baffling as ever.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

So like Luffy would beat BB mano y mano but won't be stronger than him?

really, the WSS again. By that logic, Kaido is stronger than anything in OP right now.


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## barreltheif (Dec 17, 2014)

Amol said:


> barreltheif's logic is as baffling as ever.




I'm sorry you find logic baffling.




Battousai said:


> So like Luffy would beat BB mano y mano but won't be stronger than him?




Given that that is literally what has happened with every saga antagonist, this doesn't seem too terribly unlikely to me.




> really, the WSS again. By that logic, Kaido is stronger than anything in OP right now.




Kaido is stronger than any other creature. So if someone is stronger than Kaido, then they're not a creature. Yes, I tend to take the actual facts stated in the manga pretty seriously.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

Uhhh, Luffy always grows stronger than the villain each arc that pasts. There will be a final war arc.

I really really doubt that Kaido is the strongest right now. Epithets can be misleading.


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## Vengeance (Dec 17, 2014)

Can go either way imo.


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## barreltheif (Dec 17, 2014)

Battousai said:


> Uhhh, Luffy always grows stronger than the villain each arc that pasts. There will be a final war arc.




I'm not really getting your point here. I think that BB will probably be the last villain in the war, and I think that if he is, he might be slightly stronger than EoS Luffy.





> I really really doubt that Kaido is the strongest right now. Epithets can be misleading.




I wouldn't really think of WSM/WSS/WSC as epithets. Whitebeard's epithet is "Whitebeard" and Mihawk's is "Hawkeye". When we're told that Whitebeard is the WSM or Mihawk is the WSS, that's simply a fact that's being stated. The narrator is presenting Whitebeard to us and telling us that he is the strongest man in the world. There's nothing misleading about it. It's really the most straightforward thing that Oda could possibly do.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 17, 2014)

Well, Kriegs was also called the strongest pirate in east blue.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 17, 2014)

Battousai said:


> Well, Kriegs was also called the strongest pirate in east blue.




Until he got surpassed, same happens with Kaidou and Mihawk sooner or later.


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## Lance (Dec 17, 2014)

Both in their prime.
Shanks lacks a hand.

SO Rayleigh takes it by a hand.


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## Kaiser (Dec 17, 2014)

Rayleigh high difficulty


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## Dunno (Dec 17, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Just as Zoro as the WSS will be above Mihawk, Mihawk as the WSS is above Shanks. Assuming prime Rayleigh is at least equal to EoS Zoro, the gap between them and Shanks is big enough to fit people between them.



Well, I think there's a reason Oda has been very obscure regarding the relationship of power between Shanks and Mihawk. It hasn't been stated outright that Shanks is a swordsman and their rivalry hasn't been settled yet. Shanks has also looked very badass and I have a hard time seeing Oda place him definitely below another character, except for the FV and Luffy. I believe Oda sees them as equals, and as do I.


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## Gohara (Dec 17, 2014)

Shanks wins with around mid difficulty.  I'm of the belief that Shanks is around or close to Roger's level.  Sure, he's not literally the Pirate King, but I don't think a character can be judged as being Pirate King level or not solely on the basis of whether or not they are such.  Shanks has likely already seen One Piece, and there has yet to be any indication that he wants to be Pirate King.  I also think that the hype of being the main character's mentor, being the torch passer to the main character, and being one of the main character's goals of surpassing counts for a lot.


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## Lawliet (Dec 17, 2014)

> Shanks wins with around mid difficulty.


Shanks can't even mid difficult old Rayleigh let a lone prime Rayleigh. Let's not downplay the Dark King now.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 17, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Shanks can't even mid difficult old Rayleigh let a lone prime Rayleigh. Let's not downplay the Dark King now.




Its Gohara, baseless statements are baseless.


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## Lycka (Dec 17, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Rayleigh high diff.
> Rayleigh should be comparable to EoS Zoro, who is stronger than Mihawk, who is stronger than Shanks.


This, Rayleigh is a tier above Shanks.


HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Old out of shape Rayleigh had almost the same portrayal as prime Shanks
> Prime Rayleigh should win high diff
> Previous WSS>Yonkou



And this.




Considering Prime Ray will be closer to Zoro than Shanks he should beat him quite handily.



Also can people really see a withered old inactive Shanks stalemating an Admiral? LOL


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## Gohara (Dec 17, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Shanks can't even mid difficult old Rayleigh let a lone prime Rayleigh. Let's not downplay the Dark King now.



I respectfully disagree, and I don't think that it reflects badly on Rayleigh.  Especially given that he's a First Mate.



TheWiggian said:


> baseless statements are baseless.



I didn't make a claim, so I don't see how I made a baseless one.  If you mean that it involves speculation, then of course.  That goes for any opinion on the matter.  No fan actually knows who would win and with how much difficulty, nor is there anything to go by to draw anything close to a factual conclusion.


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## Sherlōck (Dec 17, 2014)

Can go either way.


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## Pirao (Sep 18, 2015)

So, with kaido's introduction and the renewed Yonkou hype that has a horde of people claiming once again that the Yonkou are on another level compared to the admirals, have opinions changed about this match up? 

My money is still with the Dark King.


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## ShadoLord (Sep 18, 2015)

I'd put Prime Rayleigh equal to Prime Garp. So Shanks loses extreme-diff


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## gold ace (Sep 18, 2015)

I'd put Prime Rayleigh equal to an Admiral, meaning Shanks wins high Diff.


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## Orca (Sep 18, 2015)

Still think it could go either way.


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## Kaiser (Sep 18, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> Rayleigh high difficulty


Yeah nothing changed


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## Raiden34 (Sep 18, 2015)

Shanks high-extreme diffs.


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## Kai (Sep 18, 2015)

Shanks high-extreme difficulty. I believe he'll have a greater overall portrayal than Rayleigh.


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## ShadoLord (Sep 18, 2015)

Kai said:


> Shanks high-extreme difficulty. I believe he'll have a greater overall portrayal than Rayleigh.



Prime Rayleigh don't have any portrayal to be compared to.


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## trance (Sep 18, 2015)

Rayleigh's power in his prime was not-so-subtly compared to old Whitebeard's power as the "World's Strongest Man". I think he's actually a bit stronger tbh. So, still going with Rayleigh but with alot of difficulty because Shanks' portrayal is one of the best in the series.


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## Datassassin (Sep 18, 2015)

Still agree with what I initially posted. Shanks' generation = forever fucked because Oda chose to have an old and ill WB remain the strongest.


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## Dunno (Sep 18, 2015)

Rayleigh wins with extreme diff. Shanks is as strong as Mihawk and Zoro will extreme-diff Mihawk. Zoro should reach Rayleigh's level, which means that prime Rayleigh should extreme-diff Shanks.


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## Orca (Sep 18, 2015)

Datassassin said:


> Still agree with what I initially posted. Shanks' generation = forever fucked because Oda chose to have an old and ill WB remain the strongest.



Not gonna argue against this at the moment but I'm confident when we see other yonko in action, Old and sick WB wouldn't like the WSM.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Sep 18, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Old out of shape Rayleigh had almost the same portrayal as prime Shanks
> Prime Rayleigh should win high diff
> Previous WSS>Yonkou



my old post is still true


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## gold ace (Sep 18, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> my old post is still true



When did old Rayleigh ever have the same portrayal as Shanks?

If anything, old Rayleigh had the same portrayal as Marco.


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## Freechoice (Sep 18, 2015)

The only two people that will supersede the 3 Big Dogs of the Old Gen 

(Garp, Roger, WB)

are Luffy and Blackbeard

and that is a long time away.


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