# Possible changes to reputation system



## Crowe (Mar 22, 2009)

> *1. Removing neg rep*
> 
> *What happens and how the staff will deal with it:*
> 
> ...



We appreciate any ideas/advices you might have but remember that the reason why we are even considering this is because the current system is causing too much problem. We might not even make any changes but we removed that option since we want to know which of these two option you might consider best for the forum and for yourself.


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

It looks like I'm going to need to explain a few things....

I hope my "will rape for food" avy keeps your attention enough to at least brace for this tl;dr... 

We specifically said that no matter what you voted for, it didn't necessarily mean that we were going to perform that action.  

We could do option one (though I personally dislike this one)
We could do option two (which makes a bit more sense to me, but hey...I'd rather follow Mad Stan's philosophy and blow the whole thing up..or just stop caring about it myself).
We could make it a free-for-all. (S_S would love this)
We could keep it as is. (which we knew most of you would vote for anyway thus why it wasn't even a poll option)
We could even change the rules around!

Staff members believe the system is flawed due to the increasing amount of rep complaints and abuses we've been having to look into...so we wanted a solution for the question "how do we make the rep system less flawed?"

Staff members inherently believe that "repwhoring is bad" because it defaces what "rep" was originally intended to do...feedback and how contributive a member is. For some reason we wish to get rep to fairly show who is a contributive member and who is just a basic spammer and troll 

Some staff members believe that repwhoring is cheating a system (that is quite arbitrary anyway) due to a lack of feasible contributions. 

Some staff members are thinking for the little guy, yet think the reason why people whore is to neg people with a bigger neg PUNCH (which isn't necessarily true...whoring happens to stroke egos...but stroking egos does give some of you guys too much power to ruin a newbies day and thus come whining to us and then we (the smods and admins) go looking into the comment left and only find an image of yamato wood or a big red cock rooster which ends up getting you and your friends rep sealed and then we get a bitchfest from both sides...just really puts us off and we get more complaints than most people in this thread probably think we get). 

Don't deny it...gang negs on noobies and other members have been done for ridiculous reasons. It certainly doesn't help seeing the "order of the red cock", or members of GB and UG, etc. go through this...nor is it "fun" having to deal with the latest victim of a mass neg from a group formed by members with the largest rep powers who may or may not have gotten their reps from non-contributive manners (and no "being inherently awesome" doesn't count )

Some staff members are like Spy Smasher and only want to see the world burn (ha I knew I'd get a TDK reference in here somewhere)

Also, we should probably mention that removing the ranks after 500k, instead of 100k, has been discussed. We'd just change the last rank to "member has won the game CONGRATS!" The reason why impossible ranks are even being considered for removal is because they are impossible to obtain. duh.

Giving people a goal is great...but even some goals are completely unrealistic. Make it possible for anyone to win the rep game. When you've won the rep game, it doesn't necessarily mean you can't find a new game to play amirite? So we change the last rank to you "winning" at some contest for internet numbers and then you go off and want to win at another game like the contests and being the most awesome member ever award. Or make a new game amongst your friends on who can reach the next level of 100k and force your friends to make a set for you about how you won amongst them  (since we'd be removing the whoring rules with option 2 so we wouldn't really care about your new game as long as comments didn't derail a thread)

Back to the point I guess...We wanted to see what you guys thought between the two most "extreme" solutions of the question "how do we make the rep system less flawed" 

In no way does this mean we'll actually remove negs or remove "reputation" from the rep power equation.  

And hey...most of all...you guys can use this as a platform as to how you'd think the rep system could be better (of course let's be feasible here...you'll need to come up with something we can implement without the help of M.Bison and Tazmoholic)...so I guess changing up the rules 

Sure this isn't a democracy, but we like to take serious suggestions seriously 

So if you guys have some intuitive suggestions on how you'd think the rep system could be better, now would be a good time to bring up ideas.

(and god damn it if this appears as the last post in the thread or if my last point about you guys giving your input on how to make the rep system better is ignored, I'm fucking locking this thread so you guys are forced to read it *lol counter-intuitive FTL*).


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

argh....lad, this is highly cotroversial and i forsee great problems for this in the future...argh


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## geG (Mar 22, 2009)

> -There won't be any revenge negging or flaming in neg rep since the option is gone
> 
> -We will no longer worry about rep whores since they won't have the unfair rep power to abuse in negs
> 
> -As a result of the 1st, threads with rep (rep power, rep amounts) will be allowed in the Chatterbox and Blender again


Wait that was the whole problem with repwhoring and rep threads? Because you were afraid of negging?


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

argh...and flaming and what not, if someone is insulting and such you neg, so what now, wehen ever that happens you summon a mod...thats not very functional...argh


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## geG (Mar 22, 2009)

The second change doesn't sound good either, especially the getting rid of all ranks above 100k. Surely like half of the current active members have at least 100k.


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## Kittan (Mar 22, 2009)

Keep the negs, its a great way to express hate

Don't remove the ranks if you were to do the latter, they're there to symbolize how much you have achieved in your forum run


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## Saruto (Mar 22, 2009)

REMOVE NEG REP?

AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

<this is a placeholder post btw, don't delete it>


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## The Space Cowboy (Mar 22, 2009)

How is people getting bent out of shape about little red marks, and the reduction of some number on a server somewhere a problem?  Negs are a decent way to express hatred without starting a post-consuming flame-war.


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## olaf (Mar 22, 2009)

> -There won't be any revenge negging or flaming in neg rep since the option is gone


so if I flame or post exclitic picture in rep it will be allright?

well fuck

leave it as it is


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## Loki (Mar 22, 2009)

Well doesn't metter for me, you can change it or leave as it is .


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

argh...Pek please explain how only giving pos rep is gonna stop repwhores, it'll only make then stornger now that they can't get neged, and now the FCs can simply mass Pos each other without fear of reprecursion, i'm sorry but this plan of your is hight ineffeicent...argh


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## Slips (Mar 22, 2009)

Removing neg rep

No thanks 

whats next 

ban cussing
ban arguing 


For me its part of the forum and if it gets removed it would be a shame because a few people cried about internet points


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## Saruto (Mar 22, 2009)

I'll just point out that option 2 is completely without merit, because that reduces its role to merely reflecting post count and join date. Both of which are clearly visible anyway. So option 2 should really be, "remove rep altogether".


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## Crowe (Mar 22, 2009)

Yatta yatta. Buhuuu, "mods ruining the forum" etc. Keep those posts in blender if you want. 


colours said:


> why fix something that's not broken ?


I don't know. I think the staff just loves to argue over a month in a thread with ~20 or so pages just for fun, since none of us have anything better to do.


Keep this thread clean as said and if you blenderites want to bitch; do so in Blender. This is not guaranteed changes. Just choose one of the lesser evil-


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## Kittan (Mar 22, 2009)

The lesser evil would be the second one, without removing the ranks.


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## Psallo a Cappella (Mar 22, 2009)

mistah pek said:


> We appreciate any ideas/advices you might have but remember that the reason why we are even considering this is because the current system is causing too much problem. We might not even make any changes but we removed that option since we want to know which of these two option you might consider best for the forum and for yourself.


 
I would rather not make any changes. My view's skewed, though; I've just never had any issues with positive / negative reps. Personally, I believe people are bent out of shape by negative reps, especially when the messages are "I don't like _____" or "You're ______." The insults and negative reps on personal taste, while petty . . . one or two postive reps obliterate anyway. I guess I feel negative reps for any reason are not a big deal.



> How is people getting bent out of shape about little red marks, and the reduction of some number on a server somewhere a problem? Negs are a decent way to express hatred without starting a post-consuming flame-war.


 
Seconded; it seems as if it would / does cut down on people lunging for the "Report" icon.

And if people isolating, or insulting one another because of the differences in negative / positive reps was the issue, removing negative reps will simply spur people to want more positive rep than the others.


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Geg said:


> Wait that was the whole problem with repwhoring and rep threads? Because you were afraid of negging?


Maybe that they were encouraging repwhoring which was disallowed previously due the unfair adv. it put over other users. With these two plans repwhoring won't be looked after as they will be negated. 



Geg said:


> The second change doesn't sound good either, especially the getting rid of all ranks above 100k. Surely like half of the current active members have at least 100k.


613 members in total have ranks above 100K - which isn't a majority. But take into account how many users above this number have repwhored to achieve the higher ranks. That reduces this number. Definitely NOT half the current active members.



Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...Pek please explain how only giving pos rep is gonna stop repwhores, it'll only make then stornger now that they can't get neged, and now the FCs can simply mass Pos each other without fear of reprecursion, i'm sorry but this plan of your is hight ineffeicent...argh


With the no neg plan, people won't complain about repwhoring because it can't affect them via neg rep repercussion. People can't complain about rep whorers because everyone has an equal chance to just rep whenever to whomever in this term.


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## Saruto (Mar 22, 2009)

Saruto said:


> I'll just point out that option 2 is completely without merit, because that reduces its role to merely reflecting post count and join date. Both of which are clearly visible anyway. So option 2 should really be, "remove rep altogether".



COULD I GET AN ANSWER, YO?


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## Hatifnatten (Mar 22, 2009)

keep the neg, remove the rep.


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## Kathutet (Mar 22, 2009)

Well, ranks are kind of fun, and neg reps, well... Are abused more often than being used right.  I don't neg a lot myself because I don't see the use in giving out neg reps. =/


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## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi there, I would first like to ask why This thread was left open when you clearly had plans of your own with no consideration for the members.  That thread had a poll, as you can see the poll clearly shows that the majority of people want the system left the same, so you have either completely ignored that and hence not cared for what the members want.  Or you have listened and chose to completely go against the members, which again is not caring for the members.

You are the moderators of this forum, this is not a business, there will be things that some people do not want but the majority DO WANT.  Why do you feel the need to change something like this?  I know that you as the staff have the overall say and what I'm saying has no reflextion on your actions but you are doing this for your personal gain and not for the enjoyment of the members.

If you ignored the other poll then you'll probably ignore this poll to, you don't have any interest in what we want so just go ahead and make your own minds up, we mean nothing to you.


*Spoiler*: __ 



balls


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## robotnik (Mar 22, 2009)

man in the new system no one would've been able to neg me for that post

but now you can


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## colours (Mar 22, 2009)

mistah pek said:


> I don't know. I think the staff just loves to argue over a month in a thread with ~20 or so pages just for fun, since none of us have anything better to do.
> 
> 
> Keep this thread clean as said and if you blenderites want to bitch; do so in Blender. This is not guaranteed changes. Just choose one of the lesser evil-



hm, ok

i dislike both options so i choose option "none of the above"


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## Miss Happy (Mar 22, 2009)

*Spoiler*: __ 



add more cute faces please!
please!Please!Please!
PPPPPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSS!

if you don't do that i'll gonna die!
They are very important for my daily existence...


oh and don't keep the negs they are ugly


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## Vandal Savage (Mar 22, 2009)

Geg said:


> Wait that was the whole problem with repwhoring and rep threads? Because you were afraid of negging?



For some on the staff that was the only problem with rep whoring. Unfair rep powers negging others with their powers.



Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...and flaming and what not, if someone is insulting and such you neg, so what now, wehen ever that happens you summon a mod...thats not very functional...argh



If someone flames report it.



Geg said:


> The second change doesn't sound good either, especially the getting rid of all ranks above 100k. Surely like half of the current active members have at least 100k.



613 at 100K or above.

110 at 500K or above.



The Space Cowboy said:


> How is people getting bent out of shape about little red marks, and the reduction of some number on a server somewhere a problem?  Negs are a decent way to express hatred without starting a post-consuming flame-war.



Try dealing with 400 active members with a great portion of them abusing their rep either way.



Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...Pek please explain how only giving pos rep is gonna stop repwhores, it'll only make then stornger now that they can't get neged, and now the FCs can simply mass Pos each other without fear of reprecursion, i'm sorry but this plan of your is hight ineffeicent...argh



It isn't going to stop rep whores. In the views of some, it just stops mattering since they won't have unfair neg power to use against others.



.44 said:


> Wuh? If you do this then you better make posts in the Blender count.



They won't.



Saruto said:


> I'll just point out that option 2 is completely without merit, because that reduces its role to merely reflecting post count and join date. Both of which are clearly visible anyway. So option 2 should really be, "remove rep altogether".



It is removing the main problems with rep power to begin with more or less.

Removing rep altogether probably won't be happening.


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## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Put a 3rd option none of the above, it will show you where we stand.


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> With the no neg plan, people won't complain about repwhoring because it can't affect them via neg rep repercussion. People can't complain about rep whorers because everyone has an equal chance to just rep whenever to whomever in this term.



argh...they why not remove rep then, then all problems would be solved since without negs it losses its purpose...argh


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## CyberSwarmKing (Mar 22, 2009)

Better get rid of negs than ranks 

I mean ranks are fun and are some motivation towards quality posting.

Negging can be abused anyway.


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## Teach (Mar 22, 2009)

Keep the rep ranks but remove the rep in rep power


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Saruto said:


> I'll just point out that option 2 is completely without merit, because that reduces its role to merely reflecting post count and join date. Both of which are clearly visible anyway. So option 2 should really be, "remove rep altogether".


I would love to remove rep altogether. Removing the 'rep' in rep power makes it so that people can't have influence on each other by how much rep they have.  Higher repper can't hurt/help users just because of their rep.

Here are some numbers:

*Member #1*
*Rep:* 193176 (With 761K of the rep already removed due to request)
*Posts:* 26608
*Join Date:* 8/24/06

*Current Rep Power:* 920 

Remove the 193 rep power and that puts the user at *727* rep power.

*Member #2*
But if you take one of the Repwhorers for example you will get something like this:

*Rep:* 2345012
*Posts:* 6855
*Join Date:* 6/26/07

*Current Rep Power:* 2611

Remove the 2345 from rep and that leaves *266* rep power. 

Quite the huge jump between the 2 right? The difference here is even with all of the rep removed from Member #1 they rep for a decent amount. (mainly because of post count and I've been here for 2+ years now)

Where as someone who knows how to exploit the system can easily surpass Member #1 based on rep alone. And I'm hardly the example of an average member. What do you think the comparison is for someone who doesn't have huge post counts or an older join date? The gap grows even wider. Repwhorers know how to exploit the system.


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## Laex (Mar 22, 2009)

i say keep it that same, but out of the 2 choices, the latter, neg rep is sometimes good where as some ppl enjoy having they're neg rep, and neg rep is sometimes useful when you really dislike/disaprove of one thing/post.


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## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Delete this post for no reason too, please.

Also, I agree with Hollie. There's no way a majority or even plurality would support one of the new options if a third option of 'leave it the same' were offered.


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## Saruto (Mar 22, 2009)

Where the fuck is my "VETO THIS SHIT YOU ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" options? I almost feel like grabbing my xbox controller and rabidly pressing the X button.



cuteyume said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus christ, what the fuck is wrong with your set? Disgusting.



Jetstorm said:


> It is removing the main problems with rep power to begin with more or less.
> 
> Removing rep altogether probably won't be happening.



1. Okay, I don't know what these problems are or how they affect the redundancy of rep if policy 2 was carried out, but cool

2. Cool story bro, see the latter half of (1.)


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Where did my posts go? It contributed because these are wrong options.

Basically these choices are shit.

Why?

Removing neg repping, you are removing our only way to express dislike at things people say on this forum. You are mods. You can delete posts if you dislike them. What can we do? All we can do is neg. Or flame. But the latter gets us in trouble. So I would say negging is the lesser of two evils.

Second choice, removing rep from the equation, well that just means more power to the post whores and and discrimination to newbies. There is no way to increase your join date unless you become Reznor 

And then again, you'd get more people who are post whoring, meaning more spam for you Hiroshi to clean up. Enjoy.

Do you really want TWF to become the most powerful rep person on NF?


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## Kikyo (Mar 22, 2009)

What about ppl who like having red rep bars and negative ranks?


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## Plot Hole (Mar 22, 2009)

I like me ranks remove negs just not ranks


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## Kyo. (Mar 22, 2009)

none of the options are appealing at all.

so, none of the above.


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## 【Temari】 (Mar 22, 2009)

just remove the fucking neg


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## colours (Mar 22, 2009)

burn them at the stake !


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...Pek please explain how only giving pos rep is gonna stop repwhores, it'll only make then stornger now that they can't get neged, and now the FCs can simply mass Pos each other without fear of reprecursion, i'm sorry but this plan of your is hight ineffeicent...argh


 Did you read the part about rep ranks above 100k being removed? When members have a reasonable rank to reach and they don't have to rep whore forever to get to it, then there will be fewer instances of it. What;s the use of mass pos repping if you can reach the rank quickly?


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## Cronos (Mar 22, 2009)

neg repping is a form of banning that normal members do, how would you feel if someone removed your bannhamer?

we need to keep things straight between each other, so if i don't like someone or something he posts i will neg him, maybe the next time he won't to something as stupid.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

Lesser evil... removing neg reps.

It's logical, your reputation should affect your reputation's power. And neg reps don't do anything except upsetting people. But then again, a neg rep is a way to tell someone "you're so stupid my words can't express it" without insuilting anyone.

Better, try setting the whole system straight. According to Rep FAQ, my rep power should be around 265. But I think it's around 300. What the hell.

//HbS


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## Koi (Mar 22, 2009)

I honestly think we should just get rid of the ability to see one's rep rank upon mouseover of the bar.


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I would love to remove rep altogether. Removing the 'rep' in rep power makes it so that people can't have influence on each other by how much rep they have.  Higher repper can't hurt/help users just because of their rep.
> 
> Here are some numbers:
> 
> ...


Lol. Hollie.



> Quite the huge jump between the 2 right? The difference here is even with all of the rep removed from Member #1 they rep for a decent amount. (mainly because of post count and I've been here for 2+ years now)
> 
> Where as someone who knows how to exploit the system can easily surpass Member #1 based on rep alone. And I'm hardly the example of an average member. What do you think the comparison is for someone who doesn't have huge post counts or an older join date? The gap grows even wider. Repwhorers know how to exploit the system.


So you're saying people who post a fuckton but of zero content, because post whores know how to exploit the system as well, deserve more sway then valued members who have contributed a lot to the board, they just happened to join later and prefer posting in sections that don't have posts.

I can totally see the logic behind that.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

The system is fine as it is. *Leave it*. Don't go around fucking with it.

I'll deny I ever said this but my rep is important to me because it means so many people found what I wrote funny or clever or cool. When I found out I had 86 pages of rep (Even more than Susano-o) I was really chuffed.

In short, leave it alone.

If you must do something, add more ranks below le Sans Pareil for the people who aren't Oldbies/Blenderites to earn.

As for negs, removing that doesn't remove the ability to leave hurtful comments which the person will see every time they check their rep.

Also, without negs how can we get at people who make stupid/insulting/offensive posts without making a flame reply in their thread?


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## Legend (Mar 22, 2009)

I like the ranks, so i would actually like if you would change the scale of it. The "neg" is pretty much useless and only used to flame so it can go.


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## Last of the Arrancar (Mar 22, 2009)

Jetstorm said:


> Try dealing with 400 active members with a great portion of them abusing their rep either way.



Then give away harsher punishments, half their rep, a week ban is not really a punishment. 

Don't really know if lots of people are whoring these days, I woulda guessed it's not much of a problem with the new system anyway ... 

I'm not for taking away negs, I've always been in favor of increasing neg rep power, cuz a neg really doesn't do shit now, and I think a neg is a good way for members to tell other members that their post isn't appreciated, it's more direct and easier than to report a post, reporting a post doesn't guarantee that mods will do anything about it anyway. With a neg you can clearly say what you wanna say in an easy way. Same with a pos rep. 

Furthermore, I think everyone (mods) is getting a little overboard with wanting to control revenge negging and whatsoever. 

I think the system works fine and whore will be whores no matter how you change the system.


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## Saruto (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I would love to remove rep altogether. Removing the 'rep' in rep power makes it so that people can't have influence on each other by how much rep they have.  Higher repper can't hurt/help users just because of their rep.
> 
> Here are some numbers:
> 
> ...



Remove rep alltogether? So people are judged on the merit of their posts and the content of their character? BLASPHEMY. Of course, this will have some benefits. And a lot of negative repercussions.

You seem very paranoid about the "harm" high rep powered people can cause, and it's affecting your judgement I think. You're not allowing yourself to see any potential good points of a reputation system. Furthermore, you make it sound like we have some kind of endemic repwhoring situation, I don't think that's entirely true.

And this doesn't answer how pointless it would be to have rep only reflect join date and post count. There's no point. What's the point of have a REPUTATION SYSTEM - and think about what that means - if people can't alter your REPUTATION.

Xbox live - Avoid player, Prefer player. If he's someone good to interact with, then you pos him.

It's community moderating!

WAIT, THIS IS THE NF STAFF TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHT TO DO COMMUNITY MODERATING! TAKING AWAY OUR LIBERTY!


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> Hi there, I would first like to ask why This thread was left open when you clearly had plans of your own with no consideration for the members.


Actually we left it open so that we can hear your guys [the public] opinion. Your opinion matters to us too if it's logical. We take it into consideration



> That thread had a poll, as you can see the poll clearly shows that the majority of people want the system left the same, so you have either completely ignored that and hence not cared for what the members want.  Or you have listened and chose to completely go against the members, which again is not caring for the members.


Some people who want the system left the same abuse it. It is a combination of what members like/want and what we feel is over-abused. I mean you guys do know that on NF the definition of reputation is not reflected properly at all, right?



Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...they why not remove rep then, then all problems would be solved since without negs it losses its purpose...argh


Because some people like the immediate positive/negative feedback system. Which really was it's original purpose, was it not?


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

argh...i force only trolls and mentaly impared people posting retarded posts everywhere, becuase, they cna't get negged...argh


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## Byakuya (Mar 22, 2009)

Seems silly, why not remove the system entirely instead.


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## Naya (Mar 22, 2009)

Maybe I am slightly out of date, but why do you need to change anything? Someone was complaining on negging? Oh my regards, who cares about someone's broken over internet heart. The current system is absolutely okay, no changes are needed. Rep is just another way of leaving personal messages. I can go all abusive over PM too, you know, and can just neg.


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## Saruto (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh god this reminds me of when they removed ranks and changed the honour system in WoW.

If you do remove rep or change whatever, do what Blizzard did. Allow the old generation to keep their titles even though they lost all their power.


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## Sasuke (Mar 22, 2009)

Hatifnatten said:


> keep the neg, remove the rep.




Hm, I agree. I'm not all that bothered though. I'd rather leave the system as it is than remove negative reps.


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

My thoughts with this, 2 is a non option because its discrimination on so many levels, particularly to Fanclub members and those who post primarily in the CB and Blender.

And removing negging? All you will get is more open flaming. Creating more work for you.

Both are patently stupid. Leave the system as is.

Or better yet, stop giving a fuck about it. Its just another game. Don't worry so damn much.


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## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Even though I find rep as a whole an ultimately meaningless feature, this decision seems like a pathetic way to avoid conflict. "OH NO! I can receive negative feedback in addition to compliments! My internet self-esteem is ruined forever!"

I don't see how rep is a problem. How much of a total asshole do you have to be in order to be in the red repwise? I made a thread called "Jesus was a dick" for crying out loud and I only got like 3 negs. 

Stop being pussies and treating internet popularity like it actually matters.


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## Zaru (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I mean you guys do know that on NF the definition of reputation is not reflected properly at all, right?



It'd be a faulty assumption that such is possible in the first place.

"Reputation" as per social definition is something immaterial, uncountable and can't be satisfyingly expressed in a number.


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

May I ask you guys what the neg rep system really means to you? Last time I checked, negging didn't stop a user from posting or gets them banned. Telling someone that they "suck" or are made of "fail" in a neg message means to me that you have nothing else to say against the said member.


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## Tachikoma (Mar 22, 2009)

Byakuya said:


> Seems silly, why not remove the system entirely instead.


NeoGaf has a limited rep system right? But only mods can change your one square red or green iirc.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

Lets put it another way:

*What do you gain from altering this?*

Nothing except you piss off people who like the current system. That's all you do.

So the newer members can't reach the higher ranks? Is that really upsetting them so much? 

And does this then somehow make it okay to upset the people who spent time earning those higher ranks? Who are generally the pillars of the NF community?

As for removing negs... it's trying to imagine you can remove flaming or meanness from the forum. It's impossible. All you can do is police extreme examples.

Also, while this is a minor factor, it'd give masses of power to posters who made shitty posts but lots of them. All these guys with 20+ posts per day. And likewise it penalises people who make good posts but fewer, or post in the CB, Blender and FCs.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> Hi there, I would first like to ask why This thread was left open when you clearly had plans of your own with no consideration for the members.  That thread had a poll, as you can see the poll clearly shows that the majority of people want the system left the same, so you have either completely ignored that and hence not cared for what the members want.  Or you have listened and chose to completely go against the members, which again is not caring for the members.
> 
> You are the moderators of this forum, this is not a business, there will be things that some people do not want but the majority DO WANT.  Why do you feel the need to change something like this?  I know that you as the staff have the overall say and what I'm saying has no reflextion on your actions but you are doing this for your personal gain and not for the enjoyment of the members.
> 
> ...





Hollie said:


> Put a 3rd option none of the above, it will show you where we stand.



Calm down. It is just 2 ideas that were thrown around in the HR and is not something set in stone. Nor is it the guaranteed action we will take.

We are aware of the "Leave it as it is" option. We went with this to gauge the forum population as a whole regarding these 2 as they are the most controversial. 



Saruto said:


> 1. Okay, I don't know what these problems are or how they affect the redundancy of rep if policy 2 was carried out, but cool
> 
> 2. Cool story bro, see the latter half of (1.)



Basically the ceiling is lowered and people don't have to be concerned of never reaching rank X because you have to be in a certain forum circle in order to get it.



Sunuvmann said:


> Where did my posts go? It contributed because these are wrong options.
> 
> Basically these choices are shit.
> 
> ...



That shouldn't be a reason for post deletion by any mod.

Rep is the medium that is hardest to regulate and catch. We can better see and deal with everything else. As well as more staff being more capable of dealing with things outside of rep.

Easier to catch post whores than rep whores. Spammers will be dealt with.



Kikyo said:


> What about ppl who like having red rep bars and negative ranks?



Probably will get set to a negative rank that is farther down.


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Did you read the part about rep ranks above 100k being removed? When members have a reasonable rank to reach and they don't have to rep whore forever to get to it, then there will be fewer instances of it. What;s the use of mass pos repping if you can reach the rank quickly?



argh...then why continue to post, as humans we have to strive form something, if you put a limite the quality of the forum is gonna drop because people wount go that extra mile, make the extra good thread to get a little bit more rep to achive the next rank, if you put it at 100k and remove neging people will simply go:

random Guy: hey cna i have some rep?
Random Guy Jr: here, oh your at max rep rank, are you gonna make that awesome thread?
Random Guy: Nah, i'll already at max rank, why should I?

...argh



Hiroshi said:


> Because some people like the immediate positive/negative feedback system. Which really was it's original purpose, was it not?



argh...but your removing the ability go give negative feedback...argh


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## Man in Black (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> May I ask you guys what the neg rep system really means to you? Last time I checked, negging didn't stop a user from posting or gets them banned. Telling someone that they "suck" or are made of "fail" in a neg message means to me that you have nothing else to say against the said member.


It allows us to flame without getting banned.

Negging someone is like saying your a complete asshole, fuckwad, dumbass or saying their post is completely shit.


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## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Actually we left it open so that we can hear your guys [the public] opinion. Your opinion matters to us too if it's logical. We take it into consideration



I think leaving it the same is the only real _logical_ thing... but that's just me.



> Some people who want the system left the same abuse it. It is a combination of what members like/want and what we feel is over-abused. I mean you guys do know that on NF the definition of reputation is not reflected properly at all, right?



Of course we do, that's the point.  But the same can be said for post counts.  It's fun, some people like it some people don't, but in the end it doesn't affect anybody.  It is just numbers and colours, you can't buy anything with it and any real member knows that it has no affect on your forum status, you don't become a better member by having more rep.

People abuse it right... then make it so either the rules are sticter which would mean more modding (oh no!) or no rules, which would mean no modding (oh yay!)...  

If you are to remove rep you might aswell remove posts, join date and usernames...


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> So you're saying people who post a fuckton but of zero content, because post whores know how to exploit the system as well, deserve more sway then valued members who have contributed a lot to the board, they just happened to join later and prefer posting in sections that don't have posts.
> 
> I can totally see the logic behind that.


Post whorers are easier to catch - it's public, visible to all. I'm not saying they deserve more rep power because they post more or have a better join date. I'm saying remove that removing the 'rep' in rep power so that abuse of the rep system doesn't directly affect another user's rep. Compare the number of higher posters to the number of members that get the same amount of rep power through rep. More people have 400K+ rep than 20K posts. The number of players in the "power" game is greatly reduced thus narrows the number of "high reppers" that need to be watched in terms of unfairly negging someone with their power.



Saruto said:


> Remove rep alltogether? So people are judged on the merit of their posts and the content of their character? BLASPHEMY. Of course, this will have some benefits. And a lot of negative repercussions.


I was merely stating my opinion. But I don't want to get off-topic here. We're not discussing this right now.



> You seem very paranoid about the "harm" high rep powered people can cause, and it's affecting your judgement I think. You're not allowing yourself to see any potential good points of a reputation system. Furthermore, you make it sound like we have some kind of endemic repwhoring situation, I don't think that's entirely true.


There are goods of the reputation system no doubt about it, but the goods do not outweigh the bads.



> And this doesn't answer how pointless it would be to have rep only reflect join date and post count. There's no point. What's the point of have a REPUTATION SYSTEM - and think about what that means - if people can't alter your REPUTATION.


See above.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> May I ask you guys what the neg rep system really means to you? Last time I checked, negging didn't stop a user from posting or gets them banned. Telling someone that they "suck" or are made of "fail" in a neg message means to me that you have nothing else to say against the said member.


One of my negs stopped me from making a Sakura bashing thread in disguise.

//HbS


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Actually we left it open so that we can hear your guys [the public] opinion. Your opinion matters to us too if it's logical. We take it into consideration


I lol'd. You lot have proven time and time again that it means squat.




> Some people who want the system left the same abuse it. It is a combination of what members like/want and what we feel is over-abused. I mean you guys do know that on NF the definition of reputation is not reflected properly at all, right?


Some people who want it changed are idiots who can't take OH NOES I'VE LOST SOME POINTS ON AN INTERNET FORUM BASED AROUND A COMIC FOR LITTLE KIDS! I'M GOING TO BAWWW TO MY MOMMY!

No, I think it is. Take a look at the top 100 rep people. They are the ones with the most friends and people know most generally.

If asked who those people were, many more 

That is, they have a good reputation among the people at large.

And maybe they don't have a good reputation among some mods. Your opinion doesn't count to us. Since ours obviously doesn't matter to you.



> Because some people like the immediate positive/negative feedback system. Which really was it's original purpose, was it not?


Right. So then why remove it then?


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## Tachikoma (Mar 22, 2009)

On another forum I frequent, rep was *totally reset* recently. Not even Haze made a fuss, why care really? Surely you guys wont let Haze one up you :/


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## Man in Black (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:
			
		

> Do you really want TWF to become the most powerful rep person on NF?


I'm all for TWF becoming the most powerful rep person on NF.

He's a reasonable person and I agree with him most of the time so I'll probably agree with his neg reps.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

So, in the interests of openness I'd just like to know which mods are the ones proposing this and who think it's a good idea...



			
				Sunuvman said:
			
		

> I lol'd. You lot have proven time and time again that it means squat.



In my opinion the mods have only ever taken notice of us when we made so much noise it was easier for them to give in rather than carry on.


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## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Jetstorm said:


> Calm down. It is just 2 ideas that were thrown around in the HR and is not something set in stone. Nor is it the guaranteed action we will take.
> 
> We are aware of the "Leave it as it is" option. We went with this to gauge the forum population as a whole regarding these 2 as they are the most controversial.



I am calm, I just don't like this thread.


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## Potato Killer (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm here from not so much but I'm a huge lurker from years... I don't know i think if you have to choose remove the neg rep, because as someone said is often abused.

And ranks are funny. =D


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## colours (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> So, in the interests of openness I'd just like to know which mods are the ones proposing this and who think it's a good idea...
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion the mods have only ever taken notice of us when we made so much noise it was easier for them to give in rather than carry on.



oh i am tingling with anticipation to know as well


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> One of my negs stopped me from making a Sakura bashing thread in disguise.
> 
> //HbS


What ever happend to a good old PM?


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## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Post whorers are easier to catch - it's public, visible to all. I'm not saying they deserve more rep power because they post more or have a better join date.



Then why not make rep pages visible on user profiles if that's your concern?

Also, how does your second sentence (which makes perfect sense in my opinion) follow from the proposed methods of action?


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

I keep thinking up more stuff:

Rep ranks are somewhat of a status symbol. And before Mods ask why does it matter, you're all universally decked out in extra large avys, custom ranks and special user titles. Not to mention brightly coloured names, your own forum to spam up to increase your post count and the the ability to modfuck anyone who annoys you.


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## Platinum (Mar 22, 2009)

I would prefer if it remained the same.

Don't remove the power of the neg .


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...then why continue to post, as humans we have to strive form something, if you put a limite the quality of the forum is gonna drop because people wount go that extra mile, make the extra good thread to get a little bit more rep to achive the next rank, if you put it at 100k and remove neging people will simply go:
> 
> random Guy: hey cna i have some rep?
> Random Guy Jr: here, oh your at max rep rank, are you gonna make that awesome thread?
> ...


Strive for feedback in threads? Strive for feedback via PMs/VMs? Contests? Rep is not the only medium of exchanging positive and negative feedback...



> argh...but your removing the ability go give negative feedback...argh


In one of the options...yes. Option two does not though.



> If you are to remove rep you might aswell remove posts, join date and usernames...


Rep is not the same thing as posts Hollie...



Sunuvmann said:


> Some people who want it changed are idiots who can't take OH NOES I'VE LOST SOME POINTS ON AN INTERNET FORUM BASED AROUND A COMIC FOR LITTLE KIDS! I'M GOING TO BAWWW TO MY MOMMY!


On the contrary, some people who don't want it changed are people who overly-strive for some points on an internet forum based around a comic.



> And maybe they don't have a good reputation among some mods. Your opinion doesn't count to us. Since ours obviously doesn't matter to you.


We wanted your opinion - which is why this thread was posted.



Hollie said:


> I am calm, I just don't like this thread.


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## Yosha (Mar 22, 2009)

they both sound really lame...that's about as "constructive" I get with my criticism.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> What ever happend to a good old PM?


It was replaced by +/- repping and visitor messages....

But I'm trying my best at using it 

//HbS


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I keep thinking up more stuff:
> 
> Rep ranks are somewhat of a status symbol. And before Mods ask why does it matter, you're all universally decked out in extra large avys, custom ranks and special user titles. Not to mention brightly coloured names, your own forum to spam up to increase your post count and the the ability to modfuck anyone who annoys you.


You are saying it's a symbol yet you approve of cheating in order to gain such an honor?


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## ?Sharingan Squid? (Mar 22, 2009)

Leave things as they are.


If anything, equalize the repping and negging powers.


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## Pringer Lagann (Mar 22, 2009)

Last of the Arrancar said:


> Then give away harsher punishments, half their rep, a week ban is not really a punishment.



 As if cutting half the accumulated rep would do anything to certain members


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## Danchou (Mar 22, 2009)

I'd prefer the second option. The first is terrible. Removing neg rep makes it difficult to sort out 'bad' members whereas leaving the rep system as it is also not a step in the right direction. I think it's worthwhile to reward the posters who contribute greatly to the forums by participating a lot (posts) or people that actually stick around (joindate). The second option is 'the lesser of two evils'.


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## Nightmare (Mar 22, 2009)

_I think I'm digging the second option  _


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## Linkdarkside (Mar 22, 2009)

pls do not remove neg rep

i mean i been flamed alot of time but i found it funny most of the time.

i think there should be a option to view all the reps you gotten not just the newer ones.


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Post whorers are easier to catch - it's public, visible to all. I'm not saying they deserve more rep power because they post more or have a better join date. I'm saying remove that removing the 'rep' in rep power so that abuse of the rep system doesn't directly affect another user's rep. Compare the number of higher posters to the number of members that get the same amount of rep power through rep. More people have 400K+ rep than 20K posts. The number of players in the "power" game is greatly reduced thus narrows the number of "high reppers" that need to be watched in terms of unfairly negging someone with their power.


So this is all about unfairly negging? Really? 

You neg because you dislike a post. If the person thinks that was unfair, they take it up with a mod.

You really don't need to be stalking high rep people to check for power abuse. If they abused it and someone is that upset about it, they'd take it up with you. Like they do anyway.

This is pointless.


I was merely stating my opinion. But I don't want to get off-topic here. We're not discussing this right now.




> There are goods of the reputation system no doubt about it, but the goods do not outweigh the bads.


Here's the bads of changing it since you apparently haven't taken them into account.
*
Removing negging*
MORE PUBLIC FLAMING!  - Because you can't express your dissatisfaction in private, people flame more publically and this escalates to more banned people. HOORAY!

*Removing Rep from the equation*
A lowering of the already low quality of post counting sections as people go forth to up their post count. This also will unfairly punish the people who post in non-post counting sections. Why should they have less reputation then those who just find creative ways of commenting on threads 'thts a gud thry' to get post count +1

You're opening a big can of worms by dear.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> You are saying it's a symbol yet you approve of cheating in order to gain such an honor?



I approve of... cheating?


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Strive for feedback in threads? Strive for feedback via PMs/VMs? Contests? Rep is not the only medium of exchanging positive and negative feedback...



argh...but its the most obvious, and rep ranks tell us how much good said person has done, if you limite it or removing negging, rep losses its purpose...argh, and lets face it, if you remove negs flame wars will be all over the place...argh


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> You are saying it's a symbol yet you approve of cheating in order to gain such an honor?


Well with one fell swoop you are proposing punishing those who cheated and those who did not.

And really who cares about those who cheated? If they abuse that status, punish em'. If they don't, oh well, their success is hollow anyway and people would generally know and not respect them for it.


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## Kathutet (Mar 22, 2009)

Linkdarkside said:


> i think there should be a option to view all the reps you gotten not just the newer ones.


This sounds like a good idea. I really want to see them back. Nostalgia. 
Maybe you could keep the system the same, but make it so that you can see all of your rep messages that you've received.


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

.44 said:


> Then why not make rep pages visible on user profiles if that's your concern?


Right...that will be good for everyone to see all rep messages...



The Pink Ninja said:


> Rep ranks are somewhat of a status symbol. And before Mods ask why does it matter, you're all universally decked out in extra large avys, custom ranks and special user titles. Not to mention brightly coloured names, your own forum to spam up to increase your post count and the the ability to modfuck anyone who annoys you.


Contests encourage contribution to the forum just like rep does.


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## RyRyMini (Mar 22, 2009)

Maybe if you put more rep giving limits out, it won't be such a big deal? What I mean is that people would run out of rep faster. That way, rep can be saved for truly good posts.

I'm against getting rid of negative reputation. I think the mods have done a fine job of judging if it's rep whoring or not, and they are equipped to continue that. If you receive a neg, don't flip out. It's not a big deal - just make a good post that people will rep you for to counter it. 

I don't like the ending ranks at 100k idea either. Some people strive for higher rep by making good posts. If you cut off ranks, then there might be less incentive for some to create interesting and innovative threads and posts.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't like either of the choices just like most of the people, but in all honesty the members who posted are the ones the second choice is going to affect.  They worked hard for their rep ()  I'm gonna vote the "get rid of neg options" and urge the staff to try it for a month and see how it will work out, which will be chaos.  Library will be the first thing to spiral out of control as arguments won't be given up with a simple neg expression of hatred.  The Blender's crack will finally shatter as a noob invasion will begin and the older members will leave to troll another part of the forum.

The 2nd option nobody will really notice until how boring things get and all the lies spread  about your true rep.  I can forsee mass negging spawning from this to test someone's modesty.


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## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

the second option is clearly the better of the two, since it allows users to continue doing what they do, just with less potency. However, would it be at all possible to simply reduce the amount users can neg for? Say, maybe 1/4 of a user's rep power? And vice versa. 

And to hinder flaming, would you be able to remove the ability to leave rep/neg messages?

But I do agree with what someone else said in here, that removing the rep in rep power kind of defeats the purpose of "rep". It would become even more of a misnomer than it already is. And I have a feeling that reducing rep power to post count/join date would only increase the amount of spam on NF, particularly among new members.


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I approve of... cheating?


This plan is cutting out rep whoring, which is considered cheating the system.


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## Tyler (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't care what happens, I say what the fuck I want if someone negs me for it oh well. Better believe a week later Im getting them back lolz.

I voted for the first option, its better for people who have high reps even tho im like totally JELUZ!!!


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## Yosha (Mar 22, 2009)

Let reznor control rep completely, since the whole "tough shit" approach has been working. I mean, I think I complained about rep the first time I got a random neg, but its just a fucking green bar. If it dictates lives then do something, however, its THE fucking internet and it seems to not be causing any horrible problems. So just leave it, 'cause having the most rep or the least amount of negs is like being the coolest kid with down syndrome.


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## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Right...that will be good for everyone to see all rep messages...



And what's so terrible about that? Sure I prefer their being private (relatively, since mods can still check them) but it would make repwhores just as obvious as postwhores if that's truly your concern...(I can use douchebaggy aposiopesis too....yay)


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## Kikyo (Mar 22, 2009)

Jetstorm said:


> Probably will get set to a negative rank that is farther down.



But the negs are like pos to them, so getting rid of negs entirely would mean that you can't ever give them what they want. We can only rep them with pos reps and bring their rep bars back to green eventually. You can't make them all use the Sakura skin.  Sure they are a minority, but so are the ppl complaining that the rep system is abused to begin with. 

And some posts do deserve neg rep, even if you don't flame, some posts are really that stupid. 

So option 1 has to be out completely. 

Option 2, I don't really care about, do it if you want, but why bother? Just to prevent rep whoring? who cares? Leave it as is, or take out just those really ridiculous ranks that no one can get without an adminfuck anyway. Or just use those rep ranks as prizes for contests.


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## Yume-chan (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> Where did my posts go? It contributed because these are wrong options.
> 
> Basically these choices are shit.
> 
> ...


This.  As someone with a relatively recent join date and a not-insanely-high post count, it bothers me that those two factors would be the only important ones under the second option.  And it would lead to an increase in post whoring, which is actually easier to accomplish than rep whoring, if anything, since you only have to post ten characters and be vaguely on-topic.  Also, rep whores may abuse their power under the current system, but the inclusion of rep points in rep power does mean that people who are friendly to others and/or take the time to write good posts are entrusted with more power to reward others for doing the same.  It's essentially a democratic system that gives power to the more popular members.  Even if those members don't deserve it, or abuse their power, it's better than relying solely on seniority, which has no instances of justification.

As for removing neg rep: it is certainly abused sometimes, but it's the only means members have for discouraging posts that, while not quite worthy of being deleted by mods as obvious flames or trolls, are not at the level we expect on NF, which, though not very high, is still usually better than the sort of crap posted in places like Youtube comments.  

So I voted for the second option as the lesser of the two evils, but both are pretty crappy.


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## KuwabaraTheMan (Mar 22, 2009)

Eh, I think it should just stay the same.

I like the current system just fine, and I figure...if it ain't broken. And if people are rep whoring, I say permanently disable their rep and set it to 0. No need to change the system because some people can't play nice.

Is rep that important in the grand scheme of things? No, not really. But it feels nice when someone likes something you said or finds a post of yours well made and decides to leave you a rep. I think it's silly to make a huge fuss about it, but I like having the system there, and don't really think these changes would do all that much for it.


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Strive for feedback in threads? Strive for feedback via PMs/VMs? Contests? Rep is not the only medium of exchanging positive and negative feedback...


No but its the quickest and easiest and most private, except PMs but those its an annoying extra step and floods pm boxes.




> Rep is not the same thing as posts Hollie...


No but it is a means with which progress on a forum is recorded. Some people enjoy OT sections, some enjoy srs bizness. If you enjoy the latter, you have your post count being upped with more posts. If you don't then your addition to the forum can be recorded with more rep.


> On the contrary, some people who don't want it changed are people who overly-strive for some points on an internet forum based around a comic.


Not overly strive, they just don't want to be punished for their achievements. Fucking commies. 



> We wanted your opinion - which is why this thread was posted.


Then how about a 3rd option. 'If it ain't broke, why fix it?'

You're giving us two unacceptable options here.


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## uncanny_sama (Mar 22, 2009)

i cant believe were actually debating this shit

if you get negged DEAL WITH IT!

shit were actually going to disband the neg rep and take away reppower because the majority of the forums joined so late

if you want to actually make a difference then  reset everybodies rep to zero

after that everybody has equal changes of reppower and shit


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## Grandmaster Kane (Mar 22, 2009)

not being able to neg makes rep as a whole completly pointless


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> So this is all about unfairly negging? Really?


It's more than that. There's the elitism factor too.



> You neg because you dislike a post. If the person thinks that was unfair, they take it up with a mod.


Yes. That is the original purpose, but it is most often that not used that way. Did you know that there have been 13 rep seals each month for revenge negging. And this is only from ones that have been reported? There are more rep seals given out as well for flaming in reps...



> Here's the bads of changing it since you apparently haven't taken them into account.
> *
> Removing negging*
> MORE PUBLIC FLAMING!  - Because you can't express your dissatisfaction in private, people flame more publically and this escalates to more banned people. HOORAY!


Well there shouldn't be flaming regardless. Flaming in public is never going to go away, it will be more visible and more easily dealt with.



> *Removing Rep from the equation*
> A lowering of the already low quality of post counting sections as people go forth to up their post count. This also will unfairly punish the people who post in non-post counting sections. Why should they have less reputation then those who just find creative ways of commenting on threads 'thts a gud thry' to get post count +1
> 
> You're opening a big can of worms by dear.


Again, as I said before, post whoring is more easily identified and punishable by forum-wide ban. 



Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...but its the most obvious, and rep ranks tell us how much good said person has done, if you limite it or removing negging, rep losses its purpose...argh, and lets face it, if you remove negs flame wars will be all over the place...argh


Rep ranks are mis-representative of how much good a said person has done many times. By this logic an average repwhorer is better than Quonina, who has posted great multi-post theories in the theory section.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

*Why is there no "Don't change the rep system" option? How can the poll be anything but hideously skewed *



Hiroshi said:


> Contests encourage contribution to the forum just like rep does.



Last time I won I was the only person in the contest 

As I recall most of the other thread of the month winners were fandom tracts that won by virtue of having the biggest fandom behind them. 

And in the case of the Blender you win by posting at the right time.

The only other award I can think of is art contests, something most forumites cannot compete in.

Contests prizes are rare and hard to get. Rep is for everyone.

It's nice you admit that Rep encourages the community though.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Popular but unpopular thread.



Masa Def said:


> Let reznor control rep completely, since the whole "tough shit" approach has been working. I mean, I think I complained about rep the first time I got a random neg, but its just a fucking green bar. If it dictates lives then do something, however, its THE fucking internet and it seems to not be causing any horrible problems. So just leave it, 'cause having the most rep or the least amount of negs is like being the coolest kid with down syndrome.



These kind of posts are why neg repping should be kept.  I give constructive criticism (well most of the time) in my negs, and sometimes people actually thank me for them.  Who listens with a simple pm?  Mostly, out of fear, younger members will change what they're doing wrong so it doesn't happen again.

Even so, they'd probably disagree with me and there are far more sub-100k rep members on NF...


----------



## Tachikoma (Mar 22, 2009)

Slips said:


> I blame Max


I should have taken him up on his repwhoring scheme, it ended pretty funnily


----------



## Vandal Savage (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> So, in the interests of openness I'd just like to know which mods are the ones proposing this and who think it's a good idea...



You probably won't be getting that much.



Hollie said:


> I am calm, I just don't like this thread.



That is apparent. 



The Pink Ninja said:


> I keep thinking up more stuff:
> 
> Rep ranks are somewhat of a status symbol. And before Mods ask why does it matter, you're all universally decked out in extra large avys, custom ranks and special user titles. Not to mention brightly coloured names, your own forum to spam up to increase your post count and the the ability to modfuck anyone who annoys you.



Rep is a horrible indicator of status and has been undermined ages ago.



Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...but its the most obvious, and rep ranks tell us how much good said person has done, if you limite it or removing negging, rep losses its purpose...argh, and lets face it, if you remove negs flame wars will be all over the place...argh



No it doesn't. It shows how good someone is at amassing points.

Visible flames are better than invisible ones.



Malmsey said:


> the second option is clearly the better of the two, since it allows users to continue doing what they do, just with less potency. However, would it be at all possible to simply reduce the amount users can neg for? Say, maybe 1/4 of a user's rep power? And vice versa.
> 
> And to hinder flaming, would you be able to remove the ability to leave rep/neg messages?
> 
> But I do agree with what someone else said in here, that removing the rep in rep power kind of defeats the purpose of "rep". It would become even more of a misnomer than it already is. And I have a feeling that reducing rep power to post count/join date would only increase the amount of spam on NF, particularly among new members.



Yeah, we are capable of reducing rep power and that has come up.

Thanks for your feedback. As it stands most mods can deal with spam and such but rep problems are harder and more restricted on our side.



Masa Def said:


> Let reznor control rep completely, since the whole "tough shit" approach has been working. I mean, I think I complained about rep the first time I got a random neg, but its just a fucking green bar. If it dictates lives then do something, however, its THE fucking internet and it seems to not be causing any horrible problems. So just leave it, 'cause having the most rep or the least amount of negs is like being the coolest kid with down syndrome.



Leaving it to him will still result in the first as he stated in the other thread he doesn't like neg rep.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

No matter what you'll change, the system will be abused in one way or another.

Removing negs will increase number of trolls, noobs, and idiots and their posts.
Removing rep from rep power will make people make up their loss with their posts, number of garbage, useless posts will increase drasticly.

Removing negs is a lesser evil (banhammer), but it means more work for You, mods, and more annoyance to us, users. Leave the system be.

//HbS


----------



## Platinum (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't really see how their is a massive problem with this forum's rep system. If it's not broken don't fix it.


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> No but its the quickest and easiest and most private, except PMs but those its an annoying extra step and floods pm boxes.


If it were possible to make a button for VM/PM like with the rep button it would be quick too. This things can be implemented if absolutely necessary...


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

So what happens in option 2 once you hit the 100K mark?

Is members never reaching a rep rank really a problem? 

Personally I never see myself getting one of the higher rep ranks but the fact that it's there means that when I do stuff like manga edits and fanfics then it actually has a purpose other than just "Hey guise look what I made so that you can't rep me and I can't get a better rep rank to show that I contribute stuff". 

Neg repping means that I can express how I feel about a post without having to disrupt the thread. Sure I could quote them and tell them that I don't like their post or I could (lol) spend 5 minutes writing up a PM about it but pressing the neg button is faster and conveys the message much better. 

Sure there are problems like revenge negging and flaming in negs but if people are that bothered about getting negged then perhaps they should, I don't know...disable their reputation?


----------



## 海外ニキ (Mar 22, 2009)

Why are we even changing it . . . ?


----------



## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> *No matter what you'll change, the system will be abused in one way or another.*
> 
> Removing negs will increase number of trolls, noobs, and idiots and their posts.
> Removing rep from rep power will make people make up their loss with their posts, number of garbage, useless posts will increase drasticly.
> ...


This is indeed, incorrect. The plan also has the feature of removing all ranks above 100k. How much can a member cheat if they don't have much to strive for?


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

> Removing negs will increase number of trolls, noobs, and idiots and their posts.



Well trolls get banned anyways, noobs are welcome to this forum and some people are idiots they can't help it. 



> Removing negs is a lesser evil (banhammer), but it means more work for You, mods, and more annoyance to us, users. Leave the system be.



Banning someone isn't that hard especially when it is obvious flaming or trolling there isn't even a discussion for those guys. Also its more work for mods to be dealing with neg complaints all the time and arguing over them.


----------



## Tachikoma (Mar 22, 2009)

Reset all rep, make each rep count 1 point and watch people sweat to get 5K even.


----------



## Teach (Mar 22, 2009)

Honestly remove the rep system, forums can do good without it.


----------



## Cuntacular (Mar 22, 2009)

None of the above. It's better to have no changes, it will ruin the rep system more, and some people are used to this kind of system. It's like making it worse.
Don't remove the negs coz I still haven't...
And I worry about those people who broke through heaven with lesser posts.. there rep would get--low and lastly my rep. It would even become the lowest of the lowest. Think of people who have nonsense but thousand posts at all = highest rep . wow


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Last time I won I was the only person in the contest
> 
> As I recall most of the other thread of the month winners were fandom tracts that won by virtue of having the biggest fandom behind them.


Check again.



> And in the case of the Blender you win by posting at the right time.


Different forums, different ways to contribute.



> Contests prizes are rare and hard to get. Rep is for everyone.


VM/PM are for everyone. Care to comment on those?



Hunted by sister said:


> No matter what you'll change, the system will be abused in one way or another.


This is definitely true - but we're trying to reduce the amount of abuse. We can never get rid of flaming in posts, or trolling but we punish it still. This is a similar concept, no?



> Removing negs will increase number of trolls, noobs, and idiots and their posts.
> Removing rep from rep power will make people make up their loss with their posts, number of garbage, useless posts will increase drasticly.


Removing negs may lead to other mediums used for negative feedback (i.e: VM, posts) but those are all publicly viewable.  Post whoreers are easier to catch once again.


----------



## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> No matter what you'll change, the system will be abused in one way or another.
> 
> Removing negs will increase number of trolls, noobs, and idiots and their posts.
> Removing rep from rep power will make people make up their loss with their posts, number of garbage, useless posts will increase drasticly.
> ...


Also, since when did you the neg reps of members indicate to the mod that a user needs to be banned? I don't see how negs reduce the number of trolls if they get nothing done to them when they get one. The only way trolls are kept down are by bans, and that has nothing to do with rep.


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Mar 22, 2009)

Who cares about reps, I've been asking for my custom title for almost  two fucking years and nothing.


----------



## Yosha (Mar 22, 2009)

All this is doing is trying to make the people with less rep feel better. You created a system that promotes that whole elitist shit, so that the cool kids can post after you "why so luminary" or "why so celestial". However, this system of elitist rep whoring crap can be diminished if you post right after them "Because I know what a vagina feels like" or whatever your sexual preference might entail.

But seriously, this won't do anything really unless you take away the rep system completely. You are trying to take away a factor that is being abused, but kids will still find ways to abuse it.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> If it were possible to make a button for VM/PM like with the rep button it would be quick too. This things can be implemented if absolutely necessary...



But it isn't absolutely necessary.  Is the staff having any particular trouble lately with the way things are going?  I'd be glad help out.


----------



## ArAshI-sensei (Mar 22, 2009)

If these changes come through, I would rather have the neg rep removed than the entire system of rep. The rep ranks are funny


----------



## KamiKazi (Mar 22, 2009)

removing neg reps would make the system even more insignificant than it already is, and would probably bring about more flaming and insults being slung around in threads themselves. if you're gonna remove negging and allow repwhoring just link the rep scales to user VMs and let people compliment each other there cause it'd be essentially the same thing 

second option's biggest problem would be spammers and stale rep ranks. and again letting repwhores go wild makes rep even more insignificant than it already it. 



i'd vote for the second one over the first, but the solutions seem to be to make rep entirely pointless and if that's the case just remove the system entirely


----------



## RyRyMini (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> This is indeed, incorrect. The plan also has the feature of removing all ranks above 100k. How much can a member cheat if they don't have much to strive for?


Like I said before, if there's not much to strive for, the quality of posts and threads will decrease.

How many people are cheating anyway?


----------



## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> It's more than that. There's the elitism factor too.


Gasp Elitism. Like the elitism that comes with colored names or large avys. What a joke.



> Yes. That is the original purpose, but it is most often that not used that way. Did you know that there have been 13 rep seals each month for revenge negging. And this is only from ones that have been reported? There are more rep seals given out as well for flaming in reps...


On a forum this size, I'm surprised there aren't more. There are 152,451 members. At any given time there are on average 300 people online. Over a thousand are active on any given day. That's less than 1% of the active population that are having problems.

Are those numbers really so bad?



> Well there shouldn't be flaming regardless. Flaming in public is never going to go away, it will be more visible and more easily dealt with.


There shouldn't be laughing. There shouldn't be laughing. There shouldn't be shouting. People have emotions. They express them. If people have problems with one another, don't you think it better they deal with them in private instead of it turning into flame wars?




> Rep ranks are mis-representative of how much good a said person has done many times. By this logic an average repwhorer is better than Quonina, who has posted great multi-post theories in the theory section.


Rep isn't about how much good they've done. Its about how much you've contributed to people, not just the forum in all. Why do you think Hollie has a shit ton of rep? Because people like her, they appreciate what she brings to their lives and value her friendship.

I am biased on this since I think theories on NF aren't worth squat.

But rep is indicative of one thing, how much people like you. If you are liked, you are repped. If people don't like you, you are negged.

And nothing that is done with the math will change that reality.


----------



## Slips (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Rep ranks are mis-representative of how much good a said person has done many times. By this logic an average repwhorer is better than Quonina, who has posted great multi-post theories in the theory section.



I'm NPU and uploaded constantly for a solid 2 years in the anime section. I even upped several full completed series which took fucking weeks at times

I even created a thread thats sticked dedicated to uploading for the members I cant draw my creativity is the shits and I certainly cant make sigs but uploading was a way I could contribute 

I whore for it amirite 

because thats the vibe I'm getting from you 

You cant say I'm only disagreeing for the rep power issue too as looking at my post count and join date if the option gets past I'm not that bad off compared to some 

I don't give a rats arse about people that whored fuck them a lot of people earnt rep via 

uploading
creative threads
art
sig making 

ect


----------



## Aiolia (Mar 22, 2009)

I say remove the neg reps. I rarely use them or don't use them at all.


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> So what happens in option 2 once you hit the 100K mark?


It stays at Ascendent Roka.



> Is members never reaching a rep rank really a problem?


No. But why keep it then?



> Personally I never see myself getting one of the higher rep ranks but the fact that it's there means that when I do stuff like manga edits and fanfics then it actually has a purpose other than just "Hey guise look what I made so that you can't rep me and I can't get a better rep rank to show that I contribute stuff".


We have monthly/weekly contests all around the forum, we have VM/PM for other mediums of positive and negative feedback. Rep is not the only medium.



> Neg repping means that I can express how I feel about a post without having to disrupt the thread. Sure I could quote them and tell them that I don't like their post or I could (lol) spend 5 minutes writing up a PM about it but pressing the neg button is faster and conveys the message much better.


Again, if we made a button similar to the rep button leading to VM wouldn't this essentially be the same thing?



> Sure there are problems like revenge negging and flaming in negs but if people are that bothered about getting negged then perhaps they should, I don't know...disable their reputation?


The fact that so many people are requesting that indicates that the rep system is broken and should be dealt with.



h3h3h3 said:


> Honestly remove the rep system, forums can do good without it.


Agreed.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Either remove neg repping or just delete the entire system.

I don't like the 2nd option because it's fun to hit new levels when you don't repwhore and a lot of us don't think we are better than other people just because of our rep level.

Also if people remove the high rep ranks there's still going to be elitism on NF. It will just be either in the form of join date, post count, or something else. -_- So it will not really solve anything.

Removing negs would be a greater change and there would be a lot less hate on NF. So either do that or just delete the whole system.


----------



## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Masa Def said:


> All this is doing is trying to make the people with less rep feel better. You created a system that promotes that whole elitist shit, so that the cool kids can post after you "why so luminary" or "why so celestial". However, this system of elitist rep whoring crap can be diminished if you post right after them "Because I know how a vagina feels like" or whatever your sexual preference might entail.


 
My thing is that if a member is so good, you should be able to tell without looking at their rep. It's nothing but a bar that can fool anyone if they don't know of rep whoring.



> But seriously, this won't do anything really unless you take away the rep system completely. You are trying to take away a factor that is being abused, but kids will still find ways to abuse it.


 
And again, how can a user abuse this system if the ranks are lowered and they will reach them very quickly if they choose to rep whore or not.


----------



## Pringer Lagann (Mar 22, 2009)

If you're gonna choose Option 1, then we should be allowed to flame. No questions asked


----------



## Binary (Mar 22, 2009)

Extra Mods to deal with just the rep system...


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

All the people for rep are saying it is worthless and doesn't mean anything. So why should we keep it? Face it you secretly drool all over your rep if you didn't you wouldn't care if it got removed.


----------



## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Binary said:


> Extra Mods to deal with just the rep system...


 What are you talking about?


----------



## Hexa (Mar 22, 2009)

Make sure to vote even if you don't like either option.  Pick the one you're most okay with.


----------



## Teach (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> All the people for rep are saying it is worthless and doesn't mean anything. So why should we keep it? Face it you secretly drool all over your rep if you didn't you wouldn't care if it got removed.



This is true.


----------



## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> All the people for rep are saying it is worthless and doesn't mean anything. So why should we keep it? Face it you secretly drool all over your rep if you didn't you wouldn't care if it got removed.



We said it was pointless, not that it wasn't entertaining...


----------



## colours (Mar 22, 2009)

who said i do that secretly?


----------



## Slips (Mar 22, 2009)

h3h3h3 said:


> This is true.



lol



Hell no both options go against the majority here


----------



## Binary (Mar 22, 2009)

Well, what exactly are the problems with the current system apart from repwhoring?


----------



## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Hexa said:


> Make sure to vote even if you don't like either option.  Pick the one you're most okay with.



I dislike them both equally.

Either remove completely or keep it the same...


----------



## Red (Mar 22, 2009)

Leave the rep system the way it is or remove everything. I just negged a mod. Are you trying to take that one sliver of satisfaction away from me?


----------



## Yosha (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> And again, how can a user abuse this system if the ranks are lowered and they will reach them very quickly if they choose to rep whore or not.


You are right, but you are eliminating rep whoring because of elitism. However, do you think that there is not other ways of abuse that will be used by these same members? Now peoples post will inflate 'cause rep power is dictated by it and not the good kind of posting that you guys coordinate with activity...the kind that involves senseless posting known as spamming.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> No. But why keep it then?



So people can have a goal? The same way some people think I want to get 10,000 posts and I'll feel satisfied.



> We have monthly/weekly contests all around the forum, we have VM/PM for other mediums of positive and negative feedback. Rep is not the only medium.



So people can't deal with a red dot but having lots of people leaving full messages saying they dissaprove of them is a good thing? If anything that makes it _more_ personal. People are more likely to get upset if they sign on to find 10 visitor messages telling them that their post sucked rather than some red dots.



> Again, if we made a button similar to the rep button leading to VM wouldn't this essentially be the same thing?



Not really. People personally leaving messages about how your posts are bad seems worse than a red dot.




> The fact that so many people are requesting that indicates that the rep system is broken and should be dealt with.



It also indicates that they wouldn't be able to handle people leaving a full length message about how their posts are bad.


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> But it isn't absolutely necessary.  Is the staff having any particular trouble lately with the way things are going?  I'd be glad help out.


I'm just saying that if time is an issue that you guys are arguing, it can be dealt with. xD



Sunuvmann said:


> Gasp Elitism. Like the elitism that comes with colored names or large avys. What a joke.


Larger avies make others feel inferior? Coloured names are supposed to help you guys distinguish staff.

When Library threads are biased upon the amount of rep a user has then yeah Elitism is a huge issue. When people judge others and themselves based solely on rep, yes elitism is an issue.



> On a forum this size, I'm surprised there aren't more. There are 152,451 members. At any given time there are on average 300 people online. Over a thousand are active on any given day. That's less than 1% of the active population that are having problems.
> 
> Are those numbers really so bad?


...but there are more. That was just one of the issues and only the ones reported.



> Rep isn't about how much good they've done. Its about how much you've contributed to people, not just the forum in all. Why do you think Hollie has a shit ton of rep? Because people like her, they appreciate what she brings to their lives and value her friendship.


I'm sorry I wasn't talking about Hollie. I like Hollie too.



> But rep is indicative of one thing, how much people like you. If you are liked, you are repped. If people don't like you, you are negged.


Which is not how it's supposed to be.



Slips said:


> I'm NPU and uploaded constantly for a solid 2 years in the anime section. I even upped several full completed series which took fucking weeks at times
> 
> I whore for it amirite
> 
> because thats the vibe I'm getting from you


There are definitely users who earn it legitimately.  I'm not saying that everyone with high rep is a whorer - I'm just saying that a number are. And there will be some users caught in this cross-fire. But not as many who will be rightly justiced from this.


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Mar 22, 2009)

Hexa said:


> Make sure to vote even if you don't like either option.  Pick the one you're most okay with.



It doesn't have the make Sasuke Bateman custom title bold option. Seriously 2 years!!!!


----------



## vered (Mar 22, 2009)

i dont understand that much in this,but 2nd option seems better.though im not fancy of either one.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> We said it was pointless, not that it wasn't entertaining...



What makes it entertaining?


----------



## Elle (Mar 22, 2009)

I can understand how either of these changes or both would (probably) make things a lot easier on the staff and can appreciate that.  Think it would also take away from the 'fun' of rep ranks (especially after 100k).  

I realize there's a number of members that find ways to abuse the rep system both with negging and rep whoring and cause a lot of commotion and a lot of extra work for mods /sigh but there's also a good number of us that do not and kind of get a kick out of attaining new ranks which are also a symbol of respectibility (should be anyway, for those that don't abuse the rep power and those that attained their rank by other than rep whoring).  

Wouldn't mind doing away with 'neg repping' - can express yourself in your reply post to someone if you disagree or in VM or PM without 'slamming' them with a usually spiteful, mean spirited neg.  No need .

Just my two cents .


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> All the people for rep are saying it is worthless and doesn't mean anything. So why should we keep it? Face it you secretly drool all over your rep if you didn't you wouldn't care if it got removed.



I don't mind if it gets removed totally. I just think that making it only go up to Ascendant is kind of pointless. It makes rep even more pointless than it already is. Just remove it totally if you're going to do that or get rid of negs.

What I hate most of all is people who repwhore and also neg in trolling ways, throwing their undeserved power around.



Hexa said:


> Make sure to vote even if you don't like either option.  Pick the one you're most okay with.



Well right now the poll is almost even so if you go with the one that has slightly more votes, you'd still be pissing a lot of people off.


----------



## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> What makes it entertaining?



I like numbers.


----------



## Hexa (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> I dislike them both equally.


They're pretty dissimilar options, so I'm not sure I really believe that you dislike them both equally. 

It's just most helpful if people picked the option that they're most comfortable with, even if they're not very comfortable with either.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> I like numbers.



That doesn't sound like much of a reason to keep it.


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm voting for the second option because it's leading


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Right...that will be good for everyone to see all rep messages...



Why not?

People don't want others seeing all over the "^ (use bro)" comments in their rep box?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> This plan is cutting out rep whoring, which is considered cheating the system.



Okay, lets see now:

1) Who Cares?: So a few people have huge rep, big deal. It doesn't effect the masses and those people are often pillars of the community. The Blender is packed with "Rep Whores" but those "Rep Whores" are also the best people on the forum, bar none.

2) What did I do?: I am not a rep whore (Well, not a very big one). Yet your plan punishes me as much as "lol, gimme reps" guy. How is that fair?

3) How does this stop rep whoring?: Oldbies will either give up and you lose valuable forumites, or carry on and screw your new system over. Newer forumites are free to whore as much as they like. And I may add the older forumites who do decide to stay will wield disproportionate power.

4) You are not my mother: Negs upset people so remove them. Some people diddle the system so lets take away everyone's toys and stick them all in the padded playpen. I notice the new Mods have an insane zeal when it comes to deleting posts that aren't as bland as their own. Stop making everything so god-damn bland.

5) Respect Your Elders: I've never been keen on Oldbie supremacy, even if I am one now. But what right do mods who I suspect are mostly newbies have to take away the fruits of my three years of posting?

6) Respect the Plebs: Same as above, only it focuses on the fact that mods who already have a bunch of toys are taking away the one real toy the rest of us normal have.

7) Won't somebody think of the Blender?: While not exactly the heart and soul of the Blender, rep is still a vital component in what makes it so good. You'd be grievously, maybe even mortally wounding this community.

8) Darwin: You couldn't even see Zaru repping himself with several dupes all operated from the same computer so how you expect to police or change anything is beyond me 

So here is my answer: Let nature run it's course.

If people openly rep whore in threads and the like, punish them. If people take flaming too far, inside or outside rep, punish them.

Otherwise, just leave off.

After all, it's only rep 



			
				Jetstorm said:
			
		

> Rep is a horrible indicator of status and has been undermined ages ago.



So has the quality of the mods but no one is suggesting abolishing it...



> You probably won't be getting that much.



Yeah, God forbid people should have to stand by and debate things they intend to impose on other people...


----------



## Hexa (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Well right now the poll is almost even so if you go with the one that has slightly more votes, you'd still be pissing a lot of people off.


It's a two option poll.  We can't really determine how many people would be very upset with us going with one of the two options instead of the other.  We just learn which one would be preferred by the majority of members.


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Binary said:


> Well, what exactly are the problems with the current system apart from repwhoring?


-Elitism
-Revenge negging
-Flaming in negs



Red said:


> Leave the rep system the way it is or remove everything. I just negged a mod. Are you trying to take that one sliver of satisfaction away from me?


Then tell a mod you don't approve via a different medium - VM/PM?



Roka said:


> So people can have a goal? The same way some people think I want to get 10,000 posts and I'll feel satisfied.


We're not removing all the goal aspects - just putting a limit to it. People like goals so we're not removing all of it but at a reasonable rank.



> So people can't deal with a red dot but having lots of people leaving full messages saying they dissaprove of them is a good thing? If anything that makes it _more_ personal. People are more likely to get upset if they sign on to find 10 visitor messages telling them that their post sucked rather than some red dots.


I'm just saying that there are other mediums which are public and can be self-moderated for only friends if necessary...


----------



## geG (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> This plan is cutting out rep whoring, which is considered cheating the system.


Do you even know why people repwhore?



Hexa said:


> Make sure to vote even if you don't like either option.  Pick the one you're most okay with.


No, that's retarded.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

^Comments like that aren't allowed here.



Hiroshi said:


> I'm just saying that if time is an issue that you guys are arguing, it can be dealt with. xD



Again I ask, is there some sort of workload problem with the staff as of late?  This won't exactly solve it ne?

Also, you'll see fanclub-like factions break out and troll or protect that infamous member in other threads.  Not pretty.


----------



## Cronos (Mar 22, 2009)

i guess this is the equivalent of an attentionwhore for mods, you are completely delusional, this is a good sistem, approve, dissaprove, it comes down to that, and destroy the ranks..or limiting to 100k is just bullshit like said before, it gives you extra motivation to get more rep, the quality of the posts will surely decreass and i'm sure a lot of people including myself would leave, this will be the end of nf i assure you.


----------



## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Geg said:


> Do you even know why people repwhore?
> 
> 
> No, that's retarded.


 Please, tell me your reason.


----------



## Rashman (Mar 22, 2009)

Hexa said:


> Make sure to vote even if you don't like either option.  Pick the one you're most okay with.



That's impossible...for me at least. I just don't see the point. :S


I never even noticed this whole "rep" issue until this thread. =/


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> I like numbers.



Well the numbers don't really show up in our rep bar to begin with....and I think your numbers would still go up in your profile right? It just wouldn't change your rep bar level at all anymore.

However, I still think that option is rather lame too becaue it makes rep even more pointless to the point where it's better that it's just gone if they do that. So I'm for either removing negs or just removing the system totally.



The Pink Ninja said:


> Okay, lets see now:
> 
> 1) Who Cares?: So a few people have huge rep, big deal. It doesn't effect the masses and those people are often pillars of the community. The Blender is packed with "Rep Whores" but those "Rep Whores" are also the best people on the forum, bar none.
> 
> ...



The Blender is a matter of opinion. Not everyone likes that place. I mean I like a few people from there and have a few friends that are from there but for the most part I don't think that place is very nice at all. That is just my opinion.

And rep is cool and all but I don't think it's good for an entire section to be so based around it. :S


----------



## Trent (Mar 22, 2009)

None of the options sound good, the current system is way better.

If "rep whores" are a problem, isn't it possible to reset/remove chunks of their rep levels and ban them if they don't follow the rules?

It'd be more sensible. No need to affect everyone.

Rep linked in relation to date of creation of account is especially a bad idea IMO.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> This is indeed, incorrect. The plan also has the feature of removing all ranks above 100k. How much can a member cheat if they don't have much to strive for?


I personally never strived for the rank. I don't care about something that people will probably never see, unless their mousepad jams on my rep bar. I wanted the number, which increases/decreases with every rep, and indicates how much I am liked/disliked by people. Maybe it's weird, but that's how it is.

Also, people like Member 2#  probably have a feeling of being powerfull. Humans don't want to let go of that feeling, it's in our DNA.


Hiroshi said:


> This is definitely true - but we're trying to reduce the amount of abuse. We can never get rid of flaming in posts, or trolling but we punish it still. This is a similar concept, no?


Yup. But I've seen it at work. There was a Polish forum powered by vBulletin, with rep strickly based on posts. 100 posts = 1 rep or something like that. Number of garbage posts was great, but after rep was included, it decreased over time. Repwhoring started and was at high level, but it atleast didn't trash entire forum.


Hiroshi said:


> Removing negs may lead to other mediums used for negative feedback (i.e: VM, posts) but those are all publicly viewable.  Post whoreers are easier to catch once again.


True. But losing your hard earned points is more effective than "oh, just another PM I'll delete with one click". And vision of forum, where threads have 10 pages and only 25 posts are worth reading, scares me.


Yondaime said:


> Also, since when did you the neg reps of members indicate to the mod that a user needs to be banned? I don't see how negs reduce the number of trolls if they get nothing done to them when they get one. The only way trolls are kept down are by bans, and that has nothing to do with rep.


They never have. But to me, this glowing, red bar on the left was like a beacon "don't bother reading this". And if I was a mod, it'd be like "if he earned those, let's see what he did wrong".
Neg reps make many people scared of losing their precious points, thus they're not trolling, and they're not provoking people.

But I'm just tired human being with a terrible headache, I can be wrong at everything I say right now.

PS: oh shit, it took me 3 pages to answer.... I'm getting slow.

//HbS


----------



## Hexa (Mar 22, 2009)

Geg said:


> No, that's retarded.


Oh you.  **


----------



## Vandal Savage (Mar 22, 2009)

Tachikoma_Pilot said:


> Reset all rep, make each rep count 1 point and watch people sweat to get 5K even.



5K would be impossible for this one lol.



Binary said:


> Well, what exactly are the problems with the current system apart from repwhoring?



Neg rep in its various forms are the bulk of it outside of rep whoring.



Masa Def said:


> You are right, but you are eliminating rep whoring because of elitism. However, do you think that there is not other ways of abuse that will be used by these same members? Now peoples post will inflate 'cause rep power is dictated by it and not the good kind of posting that you guys coordinate with activity...the kind that involves senseless posting known as spamming.



There are other ways to abuse. Thing is not one of you can do anything about your rep outside of reporting it.

You can ignore list PMs self-moderate your VMs. As well as setting friends only on the VMS. If it gets out of hand it can be reported.

Rep however, only has a fraction of the staff being able to watch over whats already hard to watch over to begin with. Smods and above and even then its less visible.

That kind will have people with slashed post counts and banned for spamming. Spammers are easier to catch than people who abuse negs or rep whore.


----------



## vered (Mar 22, 2009)

lol this thread is certainly creating quite a storm already


----------



## Potato Killer (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Either remove neg repping or just delete the entire system.
> 
> I don't like the 2nd option because it's fun to hit new levels when you don't repwhore and a lot of us don't think we are better than other people just because of our rep level.
> 
> ...





Harley said:


> All the people for rep are saying it is worthless and doesn't mean anything. So why should we keep it? Face it you secretly drool all over your rep if you didn't you wouldn't care if it got removed.



Agree whit this two post.


----------



## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

Hexa said:


> It's a two option poll.  We can't really determine how many people would be very upset with us going with one of the two options instead of the other.  We just learn which one would be preferred by the majority of members.



Also, take a look at the number of votes in the poll, total. Then look at that in comparison to the number of _active_ users on NF. It isn't a very strong indicator. But I think that a large majority of people on NF either don't care, or are too lazy to say anything about it.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

Anyone else find it interesting that the four mods most vigorously involved in this debate - Hiroshi, Yondaime, Jetstone and Hexa - are all Library Mods?

Where are the Admins? The FC Mods? The Plaza Mods?



Mider T said:


> Comments like that aren't allowed here.



No truth allowed?


----------



## AbnormallyNormal (Mar 22, 2009)

i voted for #2

i think this is good, postcount and how long you've been a member are more meaningful measures of your effort and contributions to NF. 

not everyone is fortunate enough to be regarded as a cool kid by the blender crowd so we cant all get gazillions of rep for basically nothing.... except who we are....


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> Again I ask, is there some sort of workload problem with the staff as of late?  This won't exactly solve it ne?


It's not the workload problem... I don't understand what you're saying...



Hunted by sister said:


> I personally never strived for the rank. I don't care about something that people will probably never see, unless their mousepad jams on my rep bar. I wanted the number, which increases/decreases with every rep, and indicates how much I am liked/disliked by people. Maybe it's weird, but that's how it is.


The number, the rank are essentially the same things. People want something to define them like that - I understand that. You can still have the number, the rank just won't be changed in option 2. (I think...)


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## Hexa (Mar 22, 2009)

Malmsey said:


> Also, take a look at the number of votes in the poll, total. Then look at that in comparison to the number of _active_ users on NF. It isn't a very strong indicator. But I think that a large majority of people on NF either don't care, or are too lazy to say anything about it.


Well, yeah, 100 votes says jack.  But if we get a thousand or something, then that's probably fine.  That might be a bit too ambitious though the "IS HINATA ALIVE" thread got over 1000 votes.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Well it is obvious a lot of people here are admitting they are so proud about their rep numbers cause they think their popular and liked just because their numbers are high. Which sounds like elitism to me. Hence the elitists come in defending their precious numbers which means so much to them.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> We're not removing all the goal aspects - just putting a limit to it. People like goals so we're not removing all of it but at a reasonable rank.



The people already passed 100K are screwed over there though since they cannot gain anything more. 100K would hardly be a reasonable rank considering creative people can earn that much rep pretty quickly.



> I'm just saying that there are other mediums which are public and can be self-moderated for only friends if necessary...



Both of which are more personal and more likely to _upset_ someone than a red dot.

Private messages are hardly public. 

Visitor messages are all well and good but as I've said it's more likely to upset someone to have messages saying bad things about their posts rather than red dots.

Also it'll just end up with people constantly bitching and arguing via visitor messages about how you left a comment saying their post was terrible.


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## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

About the first option (removing neg rep)
I don't really like it, seeing the whole concept of rep is void , when the option of negging is not available, you might as well remove the whole repsystem. The whole judgmental ''ideal'' of the repsystem is nullified when there isn't a possibility of letting somebody know they are being an idiot. 

I think 100k is not high enough, I think 500k or something would be more suitable, seeing reputation inspires a lot of members to post high quality posts /threads. Removing the neg option, also motivates high efficiency trolling. 

The postcount + join date = reppower, won't really make a difference other than encouraging spamming / postwhoring. But then again if you include reppoints in the formula, you encourage repwhoring. And it depends whether you think repwhoring is more damaging than postwhoring. Other than that it totally destroys the purpose of rep. The difference between these option/ rep modifications and completely removing the repsystem altogether would be tantamount to a vegetable and a dead person. Only you cannot keep the repsystem alive with an artificial food supply machine, whereas with vegetables you can.

Also can you  add an option to the poll that says ''none of the above''? Implying that there may be a possibility of members wanting things to remain the same.

Personally, it wouldn't really matter much. It'd be interesting to witness another somewhat controversial change to this forum, because it was getting a bit dull, but aside that it wouldn't really serve a better purpose imo.


----------



## vered (Mar 22, 2009)

hmm why isnt it possible to do option 1 and 2 together?


----------



## beezley1981 (Mar 22, 2009)

1.So in the first option, negging just goes away?  What happens if someone's being a fucking retard and needs to be spanked?
2. In the second option your rep is based solely on your join date and the number of post you make? So basically the merit of your ideas and opinion mean absolutely nothing, and your rep is based on how much shit you spew out of your fingertips, and not the quality of what you say?

Both options would make rep meaningless. Rep should be based on the intelligence of your post...that's it. You guys are trying to insure that your intelligence and the merit of your thoughts are the only thing that DON'T contribute to your rep...way to turn shit ass-backwards...good job.

I suppose if I have to cut off a fucking limb to make you guys happy, I'll go with my leg, and choose the second option...that doesn't mean it's a good option, just that I want my arm more. 

Oh, and if I am misunderstanding something, it's because of your fucking lawyer talk...and doesn't reflect on my intelligence in any way.


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## Teach (Mar 22, 2009)

I predict dupe voting lol.


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> The people already passed 100K are screwed over there though since they cannot gain anything more. 100K would hardly be a reasonable rank considering creative people can earn that much rep pretty quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
It's not the number of rep points that are removed, it's the ranks.


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## Crowe (Mar 22, 2009)

Admins can still see who voted.


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## KuwabaraTheMan (Mar 22, 2009)

Trent said:


> None of the options sound good, the current system is way better.
> 
> If "rep whores" are a problem, isn't it possible to reset/remove chunks of their rep levels and ban them if they don't follow the rules?
> 
> It'd be more sensible. No need to affect everyone.



Exactly. No need to change the whole system because some immature people are messing around. Just reset and lock their rep, and put an end to all of that. That would probably discourage people from rep whoring if they felt like there was a real chance of them losing their rep forever.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

> What happens if someone's being a fucking retard and needs to be spanked?



Ban or warning?


----------



## Fang (Mar 22, 2009)

say no to getting rid of negative reputation.


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## syrup (Mar 22, 2009)

I highly disagree with no neg rep as some people deserve it and it would make the forum less fun. Instead of neg repping someone with short comments people would sent full length paragraphs of hate to eachothers inbox.

I only somewhat disagree with the latter as it is kind of fun to have the gods around and watch people suck up to them in hopes of rep.


----------



## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

AbnormallyNormal said:


> i voted for #2
> 
> i think this is good, postcount and how long you've been a member are more meaningful measures of your effort and contributions to NF.
> 
> not everyone is fortunate enough to be regarded as a cool kid by the blender crowd so we cant all get gazillions of rep for basically nothing.... except who we are....



1. Postcount = 21,000. Hmmm....
2. Ah, seems like you perfectly understand how the Blender works.


----------



## Cronos (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> The Blender is a matter of opinion. Not everyone likes that place. I mean I like a few people from there and have a few friends that are from there but for the most part I don't think that place is very nice at all. That is just my opinion.




it's not supposed to be nice, it's a safe place for spammers trolls and everything rotten in this comunity.


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## vered (Mar 22, 2009)

maybe its better to get rid of the wholle rep system altogether.


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## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well it is obvious a lot of people here are admitting they are so proud about their rep numbers cause they think their popular and liked just because their numbers are high. Which sounds like elitism to me. Hence the elitists come in defending their precious numbers which means so much to them.



I'm not an elitist but I like to think that the rep I have is an indicator of how much I've contributed to the sections I post in. Is there something wrong with that?

I don't see you passively mocking the people who actually complain about red dots and numbers 



Yondaime said:


> It's not the number of rep points that are removed, it's the ranks.



Why remove the ranks at all then?


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> The people already passed 100K are screwed over there though since they cannot gain anything more. 100K would hardly be a reasonable rank considering creative people can earn that much rep pretty quickly.


Rep numbers still increase for those who want to feel satisfied Roka. The rank is the only thing that stays the same...



> Private messages are hardly public.


More public than rep messages.



> Visitor messages are all well and good but as I've said it's more likely to upset someone to have messages saying bad things about their posts rather than red dots.


Red dots with messages, messages with no dots. One can be self-moderated, the other not....


----------



## Danny Lilithborne (Mar 22, 2009)

vered said:


> maybe its better to get rid of the wholle rep sistem altogether/.


Agreed.  I don't know what legitimate purpose it serves.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> The number, the rank are essentially the same things. People want something to define them like that - I understand that. You can still have the number, the rank just won't be changed in option 2. (I think...)


Actually no. There is a huge difference between 50001 and 99999, but they're the same rank. But I don't care about removing the ranks, FUCK THEM! Elysian, Celestial, Luminary, what's the frickin' difference. Numbers are all I care for, mathematics. It's my own perversion developed during education, sorry. It's removing rep from rep power that bothers me a bit.

//HbS


----------



## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Hexa said:


> Make sure to vote even if you don't like either option.  Pick the one you're most okay with.


No. I refuse to vote for two equally shitty options.


Hiroshi said:


> Larger avies make others feel inferior?


No but its like 'Hey fuck you, what have you done to deserve this?'

If you answer, I'm a mod, bad answer.


> Coloured names are supposed to help you guys distinguish staff.


I think the system would be perfectly fine with simple bold and italics. 


> When Library threads are biased upon the amount of rep a user has then yeah Elitism is a huge issue. When people judge others and themselves based solely on rep, yes elitism is an issue.


If its not that, its post count. If its not post count, its join date. There will always be elitism so long as there is activity markers.



> ...but there are more. That was just one of the issues and only the ones reported.


But again, this is a large forum. That is to be expected. Its hardly a rampant problem if there are only a few dozen cases a month. And if its not reported, why take issue. They obviously don't care enough to report it.



> I'm sorry I wasn't talking about Hollie. I like Hollie too.


Well she is an example of the point.



> Which is not how it's supposed to be.


I don't see why not. Contributing by making someone feel better or whatever is just as important. If you want it solely based on art, go to deviantart. If you want it solely based on tl;dr essays, go to fanfiction.net (since there isn't much difference). Its about community. And a person's emotional additions to a community are just as important as the tangible essays, art, etc.



> There are definitely users who earn it legitimately.  I'm not saying that everyone with high rep is a whorer - I'm just saying that a number are. And there will be some users caught in this cross-fire. But not as many who will be rightly justiced from this.


If a user is abusing it, punish accordingly. Admins can delete reps, delete the reps given done to the person during the abuse. Viola problem solved.

Its not that big of a problem that such dramatic measures are necessary.

You can't catch everyone. And shooting off your foot to kill a bug on your toe is just pointless.


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> Why remove the ranks at all then?


Rep ranks are public. You share your rep number.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

> I'm not an elitist but I like to think that the rep I have is an indicator of how much I've contributed to the sections I post in. Is there something wrong with that?



Can't you just tell how much you've contributed by the way people respond to you in those sections?


> If its not that, its post count. If its not post count, its join date. There will always be elitism so long as there is activity markers.



No, because only with rep can you knock someone down a few levels. It is the raw power behind elitism and it gives people a tool to grief others.


----------



## KamiKazi (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> So I'm for either removing negs or just removing the system totally.


both options take away whatever little significance rep does have. either leave things the same or trash the system entirely.

the way to remove repwhores is to take away whatever rep has to offer for anyone by these two options


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well it is obvious a lot of people here are admitting they are so proud about their rep numbers cause they think their popular and liked just because their numbers are high. Which sounds like elitism to me.



Those motherfuckers, with their friends and their community and their shared activity!

How dare they try and defend something they put time and effort into!

Mods are Elitist. Trying to dictate a system to everyone else that doesn't apply to them is elitist.



			
				Hiroshi said:
			
		

> More public than rep messages.



Do you care to defend this in any way?


----------



## Loki (Mar 22, 2009)

how about leavin things as they are


----------



## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

Hexa said:


> Well, yeah, 100 votes says jack.  But if we get a couple thousand or something, then that's fine.  That might be a bit too ambitious though.



that's a dream that all poll-makers here on NF have, I think. 

I agree with Sunny, though, in that you should try the first option for a month or so, to see what happens. Of course, then you'll be flooded with "WTF? why can't I neg?!?!1!" messages. 

but you're probably going to get a bunch of shit from members no matter what you decide. People like to bitch and moan.


----------



## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> More public than rep messages.



Wuhhh?

That makes no sense.


----------



## geG (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Please, tell me your reason.


For their ego  Even if you take away power or highest rank it will still just become a game of getting the highest number, which is basically what it already is. Nothing can really stop it aside from getting onto the individual members.



Jetstorm said:


> Rep however, only has a fraction of the staff being able to watch over whats already hard to watch over to begin with. Smods and above and even then its less visible.



Then make it more visible? Seriously, on another forum I post at any member can see any member's rep page on their profile.


----------



## Yαriko (Mar 22, 2009)

I think the system is good as it is

why change something which isn't broken?

great ideas I have to say


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> It's not the workload problem... I don't understand what you're saying...



I know you and another number of mods do alot of work to keep members under control and the system functioning.  I'm asking are you considering changing that system now because it's too much work for the staff to handle?

And then I'm saying the new one would be alot more.


The Pink Ninja said:


> No truth allowed?



Look at the censorship on the first few pages, obviously the thread is controlling opinions, even moreso than usual since posts don't count here


----------



## Croagunk (Mar 22, 2009)

Are people this worked up about green dots? Shit's not worth the effort.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

> Those motherfuckers, with their friends and their community and their shared activity!



You can't have friends and a community without rep? That is kinda pathetic.


----------



## vered (Mar 22, 2009)

the results are almost equal at the moment...


----------



## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

mistah pek said:


> Admins can still see who voted.



Yes I know, but by not adding the ''none of the above'' option, you are preventing the voters to _really_ choose. Because if there's only options to vote for modification , you hide the possibility of the general crowd not wanting to change anything. It basically seems as if you're manipulating the poll, so that a possible ''unwanted'' scenario does not occur (like people massvoting for the ''I don't want anything to change'' option).


----------



## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Ban or warning?


Well guess what. Normal people can't do those things. And we'd like ways to spank people for being a fucking retard too ya kno?


----------



## Yammy (Mar 22, 2009)

The best option would be to reset all rep and make it pointless

Only that certain posts with lots of pos rep from multiple members get a special border and neg repped posts become hidden ala youtubed.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Rep ranks are public. You share your rep number.



I don't get why ranks are an issue, do people honestly complain that they'll never reach a certain rank?

If ranks are removed but rep still increases then what's stopping people just putting their numbers on display and making people feel inferior that way?



Harley said:


> Can't you just tell how much you've contributed by the way people respond to you in those sections?



Yes of course but when new people come to the section or I go elsewhere, it's nice to have something that shows them that I've contributed and that I'm a good poster.


----------



## beezley1981 (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Ban or warning?



You mean leave it up to the mods? Fuck that. Stupid people *NEED* to feel my wrath (though it isn't very wrathful).


----------



## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Geg said:


> Then make it more visible? Seriously, on another forum I post at any member can see any member's rep page on their profile.



That's what I said, but was greeted with ellipses.

So I'll respond in the place of a moderator to your suggestion:

..........................................................................


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> Actually no. There is a huge difference between 50001 and 99999, but they're the same rank. But I don't care about removing the ranks, FUCK THEM! Elysian, Celestial, Luminary, what's the frickin' difference. Numbers are all I care for, mathematics. It's my own perversion developed during education, sorry. It's removing rep from rep power that bothers me a bit.
> 
> //HbS


I'm saying the numbers stay for your own pleasure. Removing rep from rep power prevents users from directly influencing others via their abuse of the system.



Sunuvmann said:


> If its not that, its post count. If its not post count, its join date. There will always be elitism so long as there is activity markers.


I said before we can never get rid of elitism, trolling, flaming, etc. We can only hope to reduce it.



> I don't see why not. Contributing by making someone feel better or whatever is just as important. If you want it solely based on art, go to deviantart. If you want it solely based on tl;dr essays, go to fanfiction.net (since there isn't much difference). Its about community. And a person's emotional additions to a community are just as important as the tangible essays, art, etc.


I'm just saying over abuse of a system just on how you dislike or like a user should not be the only factor.



> If a user is abusing it, punish accordingly. Admins can delete reps, delete the reps given done to the person during the abuse. Viola problem solved.


Admins can only delete reps, and look at rep exchanges. Smods can only look at incoming rep. Section mods get nothing. Admins would be deleting reps 24/7. There is too much abuse.



> Its not that big of a problem that such dramatic measures are necessary.


This is not that big of a change compared to what some of the staff wanted. We are toning it down for the members as their opinion counts


----------



## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> You can't have friends and a community without rep? That is kinda pathetic.



At christmas/birthdays do you buy your friends presents?


----------



## Velvet (Mar 22, 2009)

*O: wuuuuuut omg dont remove rep ! only neg !*


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

kamikazi said:


> both options take away whatever little significance rep does have. either leave things the same or trash the system entirely.
> 
> the way to remove repwhores is to take away whatever rep has to offer for anyone by these two options



Well you are right about that I guess.....I just voted for negs to be removed because the majority of negs I get are from people flaming me and writing things like "Eat a dick." (That was the most recent neg I got).

Almost all negs I get are of some kind of trolling nature, which is why I've come to view negs as just a ton of shit.

But I guess overall maybe things are better left the way they are. :/ I just think that sometimes the people who abuse rep aren't punished enough which just fucks up the system.

So anyway, yeah, leave it the way things are and enforce the rules more....or just remove rep all together. I still think that removing negs is at least better than the other option though. :/


----------



## Ceria (Mar 22, 2009)

*I think that every post in every section should count. it's kind of silly for them to exist in some parts but not all. *

*Neg reps need to go, im tired of that same asshole telling me to GTFO*


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

As for why don't people PM their negative sentiments: I don't read the messages in _my_ inbox so why would I expect anyone else to? With neg rep, it's right there every time you enter your User CP.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Rep ranks are public. You share your rep number.



Another thing.  Earlier in the thread you said that if the 2nd option were to come, rep threads would be allowed back into the chatterbox and blender.  In the previous ones rep numbers were easily visible, wouldn't that just defeat the purpose?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well it is obvious a lot of people here are admitting they are so proud about their rep numbers cause they think their popular and liked just because their numbers are high. Which sounds like elitism to me. Hence the elitists come in defending their precious numbers which means so much to them.



Truest post in this thread

I don't get the reason for keeping pos reps while taken away negs. I think it ruins the system.

either leave it the way it is,reset or just take away the rep system  all together.


----------



## Cirus (Mar 22, 2009)

Out of the options that are involved the only one I like is the second one.  Though from the choices that isn't great.  I was hopeing for a retool of the rep rules themselves which would solve the whole deal.  Though to solve such problems with the rep rules it would involve the staff giving up a bunch of discresion on the rules for them to do things.

The first option gets rid of revenge negging, but leaves rep whoring.  The second option is just...well...seems like a cheap way out of rep problems.  But still leaves people with the to gain neg.

Still the second option is the best because it stops the people who repwhore on the forum from haveing the run of the rep system.  Also all the 1k+ reps on the board would dissapear and rep itself would become pointless and can very well easily start to reflect on a persons character rather then who can repwhore the most.

So in short I support option 2.


----------



## Teach (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> At christmas/birthdays do you buy your friends presents?



You can show affection plenty of other ways.


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## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

The thing about rep threads and posts  being allowed is basically a set up, because when these things are invoked, nobody would talk about rep, because there is nothing to talk about !


''hey omg I just hit 100k''

''hey everybody has 100k''

''hey we all have the same rank''

''cool''

-END THREAD


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Well you are right about that I guess.....I just voted for negs to be removed because the majority of negs I get are from people flaming me and writing things like "Eat a dick." (That was the most recent neg I got).
> 
> Almost all negs I get are of some kind of trolling nature, which is why I've come to view negs as just a ton of shit.
> 
> ...



Probably because when people neg they aren't happy with the person on the receiving end.  Crying about the message itself seems like BAAWWWing.


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## @lk3mizt (Mar 22, 2009)

neither 

leave it as it is!


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## Jin-E (Mar 22, 2009)

In the previous rep calculus, where you got 10 rep points=1 rep power, i could have understood the arguement presented. But not now that we have 1000 points= 1 rep power. That seriously decreases the worst effects of whoring. I mean, the role of rep in determining who has the highest power has been pretty much eliminated except for a tiny few. Slicing it even more up makes little sense to me.



I totally want the neg to remain. Its NF in its core and its a good way to reward trolls and assholes. Im sure 99% of all members know how to use it responsibly, so why let a few douchebags ruin a old tradition for the majority?


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## Xnr (Mar 22, 2009)

I see the point about negs. There are some people on the forum that are complete nerds and just look for an excuse to neg someone. To point one example



I see this as a uttermost idiotic rep reason and would consider neggin this guy in the future, but I find it unnecessary tbh.

Nevertheless, I don't want neg rep to be abolished. I think it is sensible to express your opinion in a negative way. So I would go for no change whatsoever.


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## root (Mar 22, 2009)

Hmm, in my opinion rep doesn't need changing. Even if you change it, there'll always be people abusing it in some sort of way, and both options don't really change rep in a positive way it seems to me, just putting tighter limits on the system.

Anyway, I don't know the reasons for this, but as said a bunch of times allready: why fix somethings that's .. yeah you get the picture. Why only 2 options in the poll, and not a 'don't change it' option?


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## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well it is obvious a lot of people here are admitting they are so proud about their rep numbers cause they think their popular and liked just because their numbers are high. Which sounds like elitism to me. Hence the elitists come in defending their precious numbers which means so much to them.



Elitism is everywhere on the internet. Any gathering of nerds is going to have the alpha-nerd pounding their chest. Get over it.

You're implying the numbers mean nothing to you yet want people to lose theirs. That's hypocritical.

All I'm seeing in this thread is the people with low rep wanting to punish those with high. 

Frankly, I don't see how anyone on here could have low rep after being here for a year or more. My rep is high and I'm unpopular in general and unknown by most of the people who repwhore.


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> I know you and another number of mods do alot of work to keep members under control and the system functioning.  I'm asking are you considering changing that system now because it's too much work for the staff to handle?


We're considering to change the system because it is broken and inefficient. Nothing reflective of what it truly was meant for.



Roka said:


> I don't get why ranks are an issue, do people honestly complain that they'll never reach a certain rank?


People repwhore to achieve certain ranks. People are envious of those of a higher rank.



> If ranks are removed but rep still increases then what's stopping people just putting their numbers on display and making people feel inferior that way?


Nothing. But that would be derailing threads in other places than the CB or Blender. No one in the Library is going to go, guys I just hit 500K!. I reduces elitism.



> Yes of course but when new people come to the section or I go elsewhere, it's nice to have something that shows them that I've contributed and that I'm a good poster.


Rep, as it stands now, doesn't accurately represent contributions...


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> You can't have friends and a community without rep? That is kinda pathetic.



no u

And my point was it's not a clique of elitists but a community of forumites.

Think of it this way: Rep is paint and they've done everything you can do with paint, even if not all of it was tasteful of healthy. They do other stuff too but paint is still important and informs other parts of their culture.

And then you take it away?

Also, anyone who was involved in forums other than this would know Elitism is universal to pretty much all forums. Getting rid of the rep won't remove it. If anything it'll make it worse because rep can be earned. Join dates can't and post spamming is ten times worse than rep whoring.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I'm saying the numbers stay for your own pleasure. Removing rep from rep power prevents users from directly influencing others via their abuse of the system.


I personally never encountered that mentioned abuse. I was never gang neg/pos repped. I was never neg/pos repped multiple times for one reason.

People with alot of rep have some power, preventing people from trolling certain places. By removing this power, you remove the threat of powerfull negs, and you'll make previously powerfull people weak. They'll want their power back. How? Via postcount.

Do you really want to be forced to delete 4x, 8x, or even more garbage posts than now? Because this will happen. It's the Internet, we're more or less anymous. There is no real law. Also, it's human to refuse giving your power away.

Am I saying bullshit?

//HbS


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## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

Seriously if you want to change it just remove it altogether. Kicking a man on his knees isn't going to kill him , killing him on the other hand.....


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Rep, as it stands now, doesn't accurately represent contributions...



Well neither option you guys gave would show that either. :S


----------



## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I said before we can never get rid of elitism, trolling, flaming, etc. We can only hope to reduce it.


This won't do that. It will only shift it.



> I'm just saying over abuse of a system just on how you dislike or like a user should not be the only factor.


No but its a contributing factor. We aren't machines. If its a person you like, they don't have to do much to deserve a rep in your mind. If you find a person annoying, likewise, it doesn't take much for you to think they are worthy of a neg.

This whole monitoring is trying to regulate a system that is entirely based on opinions which is foolish at best.

Doing either will not change peoples opinions. It will not make people flame less, be less elitist of whore less. It will only shift it to another arena.

This will not solve a single problem. Nay, it will only cause more.



> Admins can only delete reps, and look at rep exchanges. Smods can only look at incoming rep. Section mods get nothing. Admins would be deleting reps 24/7. There is too much abuse.


Solution? Get more admins. Really, any 'amount of work' related argument is flawed. You can always add to the staff. Or promote, whatever the situation requires. I think Jaina and Kevin would make fabulous admins. Promote them, let Kevin handle the rep, he's proven himself more then capable at that already.



> This is not that big of a change compared to what some of the staff wanted. We are toning it down for the members as their opinion counts


Well again, both options are impossible.


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## Cirus (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Rep, as it stands now, doesn't accurately represent contributions...


This is the greatest things said by any staff member on the forum that I have seen. And comming from me that is an act of some religious god itself making it happen.


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Lamamee said:


> Hmm, in my opinion rep doesn't need changing. Even if you change it, there'll always be people abusing it in some sort of way, and both options don't really change rep in a positive way it seems to me, just putting tighter limits on the system.
> 
> Anyway, I don't know the reasons for this, but as said a bunch of times allready: why fix somethings that's .. yeah you get the picture. Why only 2 options in the poll, and not a 'don't change it' option?


Please read some of the post before you before making your own. My point is, how can people abuse the system if the rep ranks won't go up to nothing but 100k? You guys are looking at it from a one-sided view. Sure you may want to keep the ranks and are saying things like the system isn't broken, but all you see is gaining more and more rep. How can a system that isn't broken in some way generate so many diverse points of view?


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## Binary (Mar 22, 2009)

If it's too much work for mods to handle as it is, make some more staff to deal with it.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> We're considering to change the system because it is broken and inefficient. Nothing reflective of what it truly was meant for.



I disagree, rep makes things alot more fun on the forum, I think this is just a lax solution to trying to solve some problems that come with it.

Flaws make things more interesting (at least in this case).  I'd take a traditional, still-functional system over a watered-down upgrade anyday.


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Cirus said:


> This is the greatest things said by any staff member on the forum that I have seen. And comming from me that is an act of some religious god itself making it happen.



I don't think the staff have thought that rep means anything about how good someone is for a long time. :S I mean, they don't take it into account when modding people.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

> Well guess what. Normal people can't do those things. And we'd like ways to spank people for being a fucking retard too ya kno?



Umm.. there is a report post feature for a reason. 


> Yes of course but when new people come to the section or I go elsewhere, it's nice to have something that shows them that I've contributed and that I'm a good poster.



It is just a number that could of been achieved by rep whoring easily.


> You mean leave it up to the mods? Fuck that. Stupid people NEED to feel my wrath (though it isn't very wrathful).



You are not a mod, get over it. You don't need power to punish people because we have moderators to do that.


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## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

As Pink said, spamming is more of an issue than rep. You can fake a high post count, which implies a sort of seniority, more easily than you can get others to help you cheat rep.


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## Umnicus (Mar 22, 2009)

The rep system in its current incarnation might not be perfect, but I for one believe that it's still the best we've got. The real problem resides in the people who abuse the system, and not in the system itself, either way. 

At least negative rep should be maintained, since I believe that removing that option would only(or at least mainly) benefit/encourage trolls- this is coming from someone who has received his fair share of abusive/undeserved neg reps. 

I also agree with the people who have complained about the lack of a third «don't change it/keep it the same/none of the above» option, which is what I'd vote for.


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## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Please read some of the post before you before making your own. My point is, how can people abuse the system if the rep ranks won't go up to nothing but 100k? You guys are looking at it from a one-sided view. Sure you may want to keep the ranks and are saying things like the system isn't broken, but all you see is gaining more and more rep. How can a system that isn't broken in some way generate so many diverse points of view?



The repsystem becomes non existent after reaching 100k. Then you are going to postwhore and postwhore, and that will become an issue and then in two years you will modify postcounts and make it that after 1000 posts you cannot gain posts.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

If rep wont go above 100k, after a fairly short time valuable forum members will be the same as avarage bums like me. Weren't ranks supposed to prevent this?

//HbS


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## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

you know, you can always up the number of mods, slightly, and give some of them the job of settling rep issues and such. 

But I also think Reznor's got it right. The mods should adopt a "tough shit" attitude towards this stuff. Softness only breeds more pestilence.


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## Gunners (Mar 22, 2009)

Think reducing rep power would be better. Removing negs would make the whole rep system redundant though I guess it isn't important to begin with.

Reducing rep in that method prevents a cycle somewhat I guess.


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Binary said:


> If it's too much work for mods to handle as it is, make some more staff to deal with it.


 This has nothing to do with the workload of rep because not all points on the system are bad. We are just trying to gain opinions and such on the most discussed and negative sides of the system in order to better the forum.


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## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> People repwhore to achieve certain ranks. People are envious of those of a higher rank.



I don't think the people who actually whore for rep do it for the sake of getting a certain rank. I've never seen anyone go "Hey guise rep me I want to be Ascendant so I have a cool word for my rep rank YEAAAAAAH". 



> Nothing. But that would be derailing threads in other places than the CB or Blender. No one in the Library is going to go, guys I just hit 500K!. I reduces elitism.



Put it in their sig in huge bold letters?



> Rep, as it stands now, doesn't accurately represent contributions...



Mine pretty much does. 

Just because certain people make threads that other people with high rep power like doesn't really make it unfair. Everyone has an equal chance to make good or funny posts and receive that rep, all they have to do is make an effort.

If there are so many repwhores around then you can obviously name them right? So why not just seal them?


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## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Umm.. there is a report post feature for a reason.



Quote from another thread, from a mod...


Orochimaru said:


> . There's no real schedule for checking reports/being online...so yeah, sorry. We don't go ignoring porn. @_@


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## Yume-chan (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> This is not that big of a change compared to what some of the staff wanted. We are toning it down for the members as their opinion counts


This sounds like something a politician running for reelection would say.  If our opinions really counted you could at least have put a "none of the above" option on the poll.  Of course, the poll wouldn't then be very useful for showing which option is more tolerable to users because the vast majority would be voting for no changes, but at least it would accurately reflect our opinions.  Even if it wasn't intentional, not including that option feels threatening and sends a message that the mods don't really care what we think.


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## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> I personally never encountered that mentioned abuse. I was never gang neg/pos repped. I was never neg/pos repped multiple times for one reason.


A newer/low-repped member being neg repped from a high repped established member is a great example.


> People with alot of rep have some power, preventing people from trolling certain places. By removing this power, you remove the threat of powerfull negs, and you'll make previously powerfull people weak. They'll want their power back. How? Via postcount.


Post whorers are more easily identified.



> Do you really want to be forced to delete 4x, 8x, or even more garbage posts than now? Because this will happen. It's the Internet, we're more or less anymous. There is no real law. Also, it's human to refuse giving your power away.


Garbage posters will be forum-wide banned.


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## Kira U. Masaki (Mar 22, 2009)

i approve of the the rep power being based more on post count and time joined  - seniority should count for something


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Please read some of the post before you before making your own. My point is, how can people abuse the system if the rep ranks won't go up to nothing but 100k? You guys are looking at it from a one-sided view. Sure you may want to keep the ranks and are saying things like the system isn't broken, but all you see is gaining more and more rep. *How can a system that isn't broken in some way generate so many diverse points of view?*



Honestly after reading this my politeness has reached it's limits. I shall retire from the thread for the moment because otherwise I'll start giving the supporters of this idiot scheme the the flaming they so richly deserve.

How can a Moderator of a section based on debate and arguments that rnage from "X=GOD!" to "X=SHIT!" think this?


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## Binary (Mar 22, 2009)

Most of the people here want you to leave it as it is.

Opinion enough for you?


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## Xion (Mar 22, 2009)

Adonis said:


> As Pink said, spamming is more of an issue than rep. You can fake a high post count, which implies a sort of seniority, more easily than you can get others to help you cheat rep.



I doubt that.

Rep has always been far easier with connections.

Circle jerk that rep. That's what everyone did to get their reps so high seemingly.

Although I will miss this system a lot. Now we are slowly becoming more n00b-friendly and it is really making my ass sore. 

Now who will "neg" the Uchihatards. Logic doesn't work on them. What's left? Guess NF will become another standard anime forum. Oh rep we will miss thee. Now all the n00bs in the spoiler thread can only get disapproving PMs and perhaps some tubgirl in their PM box.



NF Awesomeness
2007 - 2009


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

MarryGoRound said:


> The repsystem becomes non existent after reaching 100k. Then you are going to postwhore and postwhore, and that will become an issue and then in two years you will modify postcounts and make it that after 1000 posts you cannot gain posts.


 It's not non-existent. The rep numbers and count will continue to rise, the ranks will just stop going up. If you are suggesting people find another alternative to "whore" on the forums, then I just can't agree. It's kind of sad that some members have to do such things in order to stand out when it's easier to gain the same thing by just being a good poster.


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## Ina (Mar 22, 2009)

I really think that the poll should have the "*don't change anything*" option.


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

MarryGoRound said:


> The repsystem becomes non existent after reaching 100k. Then you are going to postwhore and postwhore, and that will become an issue and then in two years you will modify postcounts and make it that after 1000 posts you cannot gain posts.



I agree that's true and in that case, it will be in everyone's face(spam everywhere).

Although I know that staff do tend to postslash people who spam a lot.

Anyway it would be really stupid if they started slashing everyone down to 1,000 posts just because a few people spam for their posts. XD Just like I guess it's silly if they slash everyone with high rep just because some people whored and ruined it for everyone.

Anyway post count is actually really hard to earn if you don't spam. It's not very easy to make more than 30 posts a day if you don't spam. Just like it's not easy to gain 1 million rep if you don't whore. It takes a long ass time.



Hunted by sister said:


> If rep wont go above 100k, after a fairly short time valuable forum members will be the same as avarage bums like me. Weren't ranks supposed to prevent this?
> 
> //HbS



Yeah that's true in a sense so obviously the mods think that some people with really high rep don't deserve it. Maybe they should just slash those people? If they can prove they don't deserve it that is.


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## root (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Please read some of the post before you before making your own. My point is, how can people abuse the system if the rep ranks won't go up to nothing but 100k? You guys are looking at it from a one-sided view. Sure you may want to keep the ranks and are saying things like the system isn't broken, but all you see is gaining more and more rep. How can a system that isn't broken in some way generate so many diverse points of view?



Sorry, I was just giving my opinion, and I did read a few pages of this thread before posting. In my opinion the system isn't broke, at least not anymore broke than any of the changes suggested. I think as it stands now it gives a good enough impression of people's contribution and standing. If you limit rep to 100000 people will find something else, like post counts, to waste their time on.

Then again, I've never had any bad experiences so far, then again I'm hardly the most active member around. Whatever.


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## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Me said:


> I really think that the poll should have the "*don't change anything*" option.



digital artbook


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## Disquiet (Mar 22, 2009)

I get that you're trying to change the system and I see that there are some problems with it in terms of how it's imagined, but ultimately it works the way it is; just not as what it was intended to be.

I'm hardly the rep king, but chasing ranks is a bit of fun.  It's not reflective of authority, character or necessarily even Awesomeness, but it's still a laugh.  On those grounds, I don't see a reason to change it.

And I barely ever neg or receive negs, but for much the same reason I don't see much of an issue with that either.


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## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Neither option will stop anything. Instead, single flames in neg rep will turn into flaming in pos rep or full-blown arguments and harrassment in VMs and PMs, and if all ranks are removed people will still brag about their rep/use it as a tool for elitism... their gain from whoring will just not be able to be spotted and pointed out by anyone but staff.

You might as well get rid of rep altogether if you're willing to make such drastic changes, as removing the system would be the only thing that would ACTUALLY affect anything positively.


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## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

I would still like to be able to neg, so no 2.


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## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Honestly after reading this my politeness has reached it's limits. I shall retire from the thread for the moment because otherwise I'll start giving the supporters of this idiot scheme the the flaming they so richly deserve.
> 
> How can a Moderator of a section based on debate and arguments that rnage from "X=GOD!" to "X=SHIT!" think this?



I think you've been in the Blender too long, friend. 

The mods are just asking for our opinions, they haven't done anything yet, and it's possible that they might not change anything at all. 

Let's all at least try to be civil about this.


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## Cirus (Mar 22, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> If rep wont go above 100k, after a fairly short time valuable forum members will be the same as avarage bums like me. Weren't ranks supposed to prevent this?
> 
> //HbS


 Do you realize that the average pos rep will be about 100 to 400 points if option to happens?  Which will do a complete shift of rep power on the boards, and rep will then show more of a person quality then anything else.  So instead of people just posting in a pointless areas with pointless posts and rep whoreing their way to power they will actually need to earn it with quality and not really have to be in fear of people who neg.


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## Hellion (Mar 22, 2009)

I hate them both. All those that complain about the current system need to realize that you aren't going to die if you get negged, and I you are getting negged alot..... Well stop doing this that piss others off


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## ExAzrael (Mar 22, 2009)

What's the point of having rep if you only give good rep?

Negs are good for showing people when they do bad things.

I voted for the second option because it seems the most effective. Rep whores are kaput and negs and pos are ok.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> A newer/low-repped member being neg repped from a high repped established member is a great example.


It depends. If that negged dude did something worth neg repping, it's his own fault. Get negged, learn on your own mistakes, and eventually gain good reputation. That's what I partially did.

And when that neg was uncalled for... aren't you supposed to report neg abuse?

As for +rep abuse... disabling reputation works fine, doesn't it.

//HbS


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## Ciupy (Mar 22, 2009)

Don't drop the neg repping,it helps to avoid a lot of unnecesary flame wars and otherwise stupid threads and posts.

It is a self-balancing system in this forum.

Sure,it can be abused,but that can be applied to almost anything.
But goddamit,I want to be able to tell a guy that he is a complete and utter ass and not do it in a thread thus creating a flame war but instead do it privately..


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## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Cirus said:


> Do you realize that the average pos rep will be about 100 to 400 points if option to happens?  Which will do a complete shift of rep power on the boards, *and rep will then show more of a person quality then anything else.*  So instead of people just posting in a pointless areas with pointless posts and rep whoreing their way to power they will actually need to earn it with *quality and not really have to be in fear of people who neg.*



Bolded are so wrong that I don't know whether or not to laugh.

Rep will show how much you can post, quality won't matter at all. I could post 100 times a day with very little substance and quite quickly become a person with insane rep power.

And fear? Jesus F. Christ it's a red dot and some numbers.


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## Xion (Mar 22, 2009)

All n00bs need to undergo the hazing that I and other members went through. It's a very efficient, market-driven process to root out the most awesome people from the soccer moms and 12-year olds. 

Internet elitism FTW!


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## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> It's not non-existent. The rep numbers and count will continue to rise, the ranks will just stop going up. If you are suggesting people find another alternative to "whore" on the forums, then I just can't agree. It's kind of sad that some members have to do such things in order to stand out when it's easier to gain the same thing by just being a good poster.



You have to deal with the reality of this forum. The reality of this forum is that a lot of people are , as you like to put it, sad enough to go there. You not liking that isn't going to change anything. You are now just denying that there is a significant amount of people, willing to find alternative ways to whore.

The same scenario is going to occure just like it did  before. You change the repsystem from 10 pt= +1 reppower to 1000 pt = +1 reppower, then people will find a way to abuse it. ''Why?'' Is not an issue, they are going to do it. So you being unable to agree with it , doesn't make that likelihood false.

If you really want to stop whoring, delete the system altogether. What you are doing now is, as I said before, turning a person into vegetative state , and then say ''yeh well he's not dead''.

Ofcourse the more troublesome, though ''better'' way would be to consistently step up towards repwhoring. Announce a post with clear, unvague rules about the repsystem , and issue a no-tolerance policy vs abuse. Give the smods the power to look into the reppages of the members etc.   Try that first, then start cutting of limbs.


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## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

Or, get rid of the numbers, keep the green/red marks for feedback purposes.


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

I can understand most points of view on taking away neg repping, but why do you guys feel it's such a big deal to take away the ranks when the rep count continues to increase?


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## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Xion said:


> I doubt that.
> 
> Rep has always been far easier with connections.
> 
> ...



Anyone pathetic enough to set up an elaborate chain of connections to win internet points deserves the little validation they get from it.

As someone who doesn't have connections, it's easier to post multiple one sentence posts than it is to get other people to massively rep you (especially with the cool-off period between reps.) 

Just because there's a bit of an "Old Boy's Club" thing going on with the Blenderites and some of the Senior Posters doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Admittedly, the most rep I ever got was in the blender when RobotKiller gave me his account info and I pretended to be him while he was on vacation.


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## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> I can understand most points of view on taking away neg repping, but why do you guys feel it's such a big deal to take away the ranks when the rep count continues to increase?



because my life is so depressing and neg reps make me laugh.


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## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Cirus said:


> Do you realize that the average pos rep will be about 100 to 400 points if option to happens?  Which will do a complete shift of rep power on the boards, and rep will then show more of a person quality then anything else.  So instead of people just posting in a pointless areas with pointless posts and rep whoreing their way to power they will actually need to earn it with quality and not really have to be in fear of people who neg.


People get negged because they've done something to piss someone else off. That's the point of the system.

"I disapprove"

I want to be able to disapprove trolls and other people who deserve it for ignorant or stupid comments. Removing negging removes the fear of punishment for being a douche. You know how many people welcome repseals just as a means to troll without losing rep? 

Spam is a FAR greater problem than rep, and staff want to give more power to the postwhores? Yes the balance will be shifted, but certainly not for the better. More posts =/= better contribution to the forum community.


----------



## Sin (Mar 22, 2009)

I'd much rather keep negging, though neither one sounds very desirable.


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## Cirus (Mar 22, 2009)

Kaze said:


> I hate them both. All those that complain about the current system need to realize that you aren't going to die if you get negged, and I you are getting negged alot..... Well stop doing this that piss others off


 Go and read this thread:  digital artbook

Alot of the responces that people put for neging are because they just don't like what the person says, or because they think that a persons post is stupid.  Nothing to deal with it being a bad post, but just because they disagreed with the persons opinion.

Which is why something needs to be done now before it gets even worse.


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## Ina (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> digital artbook


now that's better


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 22, 2009)

> Rep, as it stands now, doesn't accurately represent contributions...


This point I thoroughly disagree with.

Top 50 rep people from a few months ago (Reznor posted it b4)

I can tell you everything that these people have done to make them worthy of it.

# Robotkiller - Was a great smod, contributed great comedy, stories thread, all of that.
# Susano-o - Made comics, made fan subs, molested little kids
# Sunuvmann - I've done comics, I've done stories, I've done sigs people liked, I've done a fuckton in nearly 3.5 years
# Neliel - I already said about Hollie already
# Zaru - Nah, he's done nothing, all circle jerking with his dupes. 
# TWF - OBD, here for a long ass time, etc.
# Chamcham Trigger - Makes gifs, comics, keeps Blindy inline, all around good guy.
# Phoenix - She cures people and doesn't afraid of anything.
# Shiraishi - He makes a lot of threads to bring activity. Admittedly they were usually egostroking but he was a generally good member.
# Dave - Hey gaiz, look what I drew.
# uncanny_sama - Yeah no, he doesn't deserve it.
# Curry - Similiar to Hollie. But also did a lot of photoshopping and stuff with Tina.
# Shodai - Do I have to even say anything about him?
# Blind Itachi - Yeah nope, Blindy's rep was 100% whored. Or rather those chibis steal peoples reps and bring it back to him.
# Shroomsday - Again, do I have to say why?
# Neji - Contributes a lot with library and fanclubs.
# Byakuya - Contriubutes a lot with soul society and fanclubs
# Slips - Uploads shit.
# CupC?k - Contributed a lot with Blender and fanclubs back in the day.
# ShinAkuma - I think that was the person Blue gave his rep to so disregard.
# jkingler - Fanclubs I think, mostly from like 2005-2006, don't remember
# Kira Yamato - Loli gifs.
# Reznor - He likes pizza.
# Taxman - He haets pizza.
# Lord Yu - Old member, active a while in many places.
# Spanish Hoffkage - Contributes a lot with library and fanclubs.
# Lastier - Contriubutes a lot with soul society and fanclubs
# Orochimaru - Contriubutes a lot with library and fanclubs
# Nae'blis (lol slash) - Yeah, I dunno.
# I Я k1nj3 - Old member everyone liked.
# Αgeha - I dunno em.
# cheifrocka - Old member, active FCs and elsewhere
# Ram - God's bastard child.
# Jonas - Oompa Loompa.
# Jef88 - God of art.
# The Pink Ninja - Gifs and stuff, active everywhere and for a while
# mow - Dunno em
# Last of the Arrancar - Contributes a lot with soul society and fanclubs
# tGre teh Disleksik - Contriubutes a lot with soul society and fanclubs and Blender and many other places
# maximilyan - No. Whore.
# troublesum-chan - Contributes a lot in CB, Blender and elsewhere
# .44 - Forum Aizen.
# Syūsuke - That was Suzuhiko at the time right? Yeah don't need to say anything about her, should be obvious.
# Dyroness - Goddess of PS, bow down.
# TenshiOni - Was good admin, mod, etc.
# Yakushi Kabuto - Is damn sexy, oh and a good mod, etc.
# LOS - Fanclubs, blender, etc, contributes a lot.
# Sasori - See Neji.
# Tayuya (the banned one) - Rep whore from olden days, disregard.
# Splintered - Has a question mark for a head.

Point is, these are all people which you describe as high rep, they all had at the time > ~700k.

Out of 50, less than 5 would be questionable about deserving it. Really, if you are going to reach the point where your rep is high enough to be able to make a difference, like Rep power >1000, you'd have had to be around for a while and contribute a lot.

And the few that get there by whoring, they are easy enough to spot.

Its not big enough of a deal to merit all this.


----------



## ctizz36 (Mar 22, 2009)

My opinion is that to get rid of neg repping


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## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Easier solution - take away the names on reputation. You can't prove someone repped/negged you, then you can't whore or revenge neg without some sort of scheme or circle, which is usually uncovered fast by mods.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> I can understand most points of view on taking away neg repping, but why do you guys feel it's such a big deal to take away the ranks when the rep count continues to increase?



It's a pretty fun thing, shows that important posters really have something to show for it.  Learned that during the Final Villain/post slash fiasco.


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## Cronos (Mar 22, 2009)

> Poll Options
> Which option do you think is the best for the forum? PLEASE READ OPENING POST
> Removing neg rep
> The rep in rep power is gone and ranks past 100K are gone/100K is renamed



none of the above


----------



## Elle (Mar 22, 2009)

What is the percentage of members that actually (and habitually) abuse the rep system?   If it's not a significant number then why are these changes being pursued? 

  If there are certain sections where abuse more habitually occurs, then maybe the mods need to 'crack down' more heavily and directly punish those who abuse rep.  Perhaps a punitive system that ends in permanent rep ban/seal after 3 offenses or something might be a better solution.

The rep system is a fun way (for many of us) to show other members that we like something about them (their post, their set, who they are, as we've gotten to know them, etc...).  The ranks are also goals to strive for and unfortunately there will always be a minority that screw up and wind up ruining a system that's decent for the rest of us.  

If the second option is chosen, would then prefer to see a higher (rank) goal labeled at 250 or 500k.

IMHO The minority of abusers should not be the driving force for change of our entire community.


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## Xion (Mar 22, 2009)

Adonis said:


> Anyone pathetic enough to set up an elaborate chain of connections to win internet points deserves the little validation they get from it.
> 
> As someone who doesn't have connections, it's easier to post multiple one sentence posts than it is to get other people to massively rep (especially with the cool-off period between reps.)
> 
> ...



I was never a member of the circle jerk group either, but I still admire it as an Internet socialite. It was a mini-4chan (/b/ probably) on one of the bigger anime forums in the world. I will be very sad to see it go.

Just because some Blenderites and others abuse it, doesn't mean it should be eliminated. Hell, I have gotten mass-negged and negged for no reason, but I still love the system for the culture it has produced. A decadent culture of elitism and lulz, but a culture nonetheless.

Now the forum will lose its pazazz and be simply Tazmo's Hole of Money.


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## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> I can understand most points of view on taking away neg repping, but why do you guys feel it's such a big deal to take away the ranks when the rep count continues to increase?



Because the rep power doesn't increase.


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## Lord of Fire (Mar 22, 2009)

i was beat upon for neg rep but at the same time dealing out neg rep is a nessarily function of this forum


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## Sin (Mar 22, 2009)

What's going to stop people pos repping other people with insults?


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## Yondaime (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> It's a pretty fun thing, shows that important posters really have something to show for it. Learned that during the Final Villain/post slash fiasco.


So let me get this straight. You feel that the only posters that are important are the ones with the higher ranks? Even in rep/post whoring cases?


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## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

Still no ''none of the above'' and ''radiohead'' option in the poll = poll fails.


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## Cirus (Mar 22, 2009)

Para said:


> People get negged because they've done something to piss someone else off. That's the point of the system.
> 
> "I disapprove"
> 
> ...


 
I for one just want a retool of the rules and not something like option 1 or 2.  Though the 2nd option is more preferable and people can't get everything they want.

You can still neg under option 2, but the people who constantly rep whore will lose their power.  I don't know if you have seen it but the number of people who don't post anything good at all but have a join date of 1 or 1.5 years are way up there in rank.  About as high as you if not higher.  

As for post whoring then the staff just needs to start reading through threads and posts more and use the "delete" option more.  Spam is an easier problem to fix because it is open and more viewable to people then rep where it can be done more covertly.

I believe though the balance will shift for the better.  For people who actually contribute to the forum more and who do good posts.


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## Ciupy (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> I can understand most points of view on taking away neg repping, but why do you guys feel it's such a big deal to take away the ranks when the rep count continues to increase?



The ranks are there to give a said user the feeling that he has achieved something on this forum.

Sure,it's a little green bar and some numbers and a title,but I can pretty much say that we are all in a smaller or bigger measure nerdy and this would count as proof that we have invested some time to our nerdish little thing (posting on this forum).

The neg repping can't go because this allows for usual users to express their dislike towards other users without bothering you mods.

As I said before the neg rep is a big part of the rep system.


And don't go basing rep solely on the post count and join date..

That would only encourage spam..


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## Madara (Mar 22, 2009)

The thing about rep in NF is that you care about it for at most a year. Sometimes more, sometimes less... anyway at some point you realize that you can spend your time doing more fruitful things than worrying about the size of an online green bar. *I think far from 'fixing' this system, you should make it more ridiculous. Like exaggerating the titles even more (if it's possible, because I don't know if there is a semantical gap between Celestial and Rapturous, or OMGWTFBBQQOVER90000! or whatever it is right now). That way people will take the whole thing less seriously.* It will lighten up things up around here, I think. But that's just me, an old quiet NF dinosaur, smoking his pipe.


----------



## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> This point I thoroughly disagree with.
> 
> Top 50 rep people from a few months ago (Reznor posted it b4)
> 
> ...



Most of those people are from the Blender.


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## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Para's idea about removing names from reps is pretty good, removing messages would mean you can't flame or whatever in them either. That would pretty much sort out any people who complain about being flamed in reps.


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## Jeαnne (Mar 22, 2009)

both options would not work.


negging is the way that some members have to do their own justice without talk with the staff

and the second option is injust with the newest members so far, without forget that the members that post in sections without postcount will suffer the consequences, while library trolls will still tend to have a higher postcount

what makes a member that joins the forum to talk about the manga deserve higher rep than the one that wants to make friends in the CB?



if you want to do it right, or you keep the system as it is right now, or remove the rep system COMPLETLY, no rep coming from reps, or postcount, or join date.


since i have to choose between the 2 options, i chose the first since i am not the type that cares too much about neg somebody


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## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> So let me get this straight. You feel that the only posters that are important are the ones with the higher ranks? Even in rep/post whoring cases?


lol

This is why some people need to be slashed and knocked off their perch. It's that kind of elitist thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.

but seriously...

These options are only going to impact the community in a negative (no pun intended) way. The best options would be removing the system altogether, taking names off rep again or mass slashes/seals and a revamp of rep power (basically lowering how much power you get from rep, posts and joindate so that elitism can go fuck itself).


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> I can understand most points of view on taking away neg repping, but why do you guys feel it's such a big deal to take away the ranks when the rep count continues to increase?


1. Your rep points are not displayed, only rank. Somebody earns 101k points, somebody earns 1kk points, and they have the same rank... i call bullshit. Awesome member will be the same as avarage member, this is just wrong.
And if you display your rep points yourself, you'll be called an attention whore, that brags about rep. 
2. Rep shouldn't be removed from rep power. If somebody earned his rep, why does it have to be useless? Also, reps included in rep power = less posts made to gain rep power.

//HbS


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## Senbonzakura (Mar 22, 2009)

i believe you should take of neg rep but not ranks.

a lot of people say its unfair that they get neg reped because they like something like twilight. thats unfair because they didn't do anything wrong and got neg reped for something they liked. i got like 5 neg reps just because i said i liked twilight. i think you should remove neg rep because people can no longer say what they like without worrying about neg rep.


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## ?Sharingan Squid? (Mar 22, 2009)

Para's idea sounds pretty good. Removing names from reps/negs and all.


Another thing i thought would be that only posts in certain sections can be repped.

In anycase, keep the negs. If anything, raise the neg power to the same level as pos power.


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## Jeαnne (Mar 22, 2009)

or keep it as it is, or remove it completly


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

In short, nobody wants it changed, and this system is the container for an epidemic of abuse that would be let loose if we get rid of it.



Yondaime said:


> So let me get this straight. You feel that the only posters that are important are the ones with the higher ranks? Even in rep/post whoring cases?



No, but I don't like when old and quality members leave because some of the magic is lost, removing rep ranks doesn't seem to help in any way.  Conversely, I could see a new member just not wanting to post knowing that there is a limit.


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## Cirus (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> Para's idea about removing names from reps is pretty good, removing messages would mean you can't flame or whatever in them either. That would pretty much sort out any people who complain about being flamed in reps.


 No.  That would just make reveng negging and gang negging more previlant.  Imagine you neg a person 3 times in a week and that person doesn't know who you are.  The odds of them reporting you for doing such or even asking questions about it are much slimmer.  With the names it does slow up the neg option for people to abuse it.


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Malmsey said:


> Most of those people are from the Blender.



Was there ANYONE on that list who wasn't either a mod or a Blenderite? :S


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## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Para said:


> Easier solution - take away the names on reputation. You can't prove someone repped/negged you, then you can't whore or revenge neg without some sort of scheme or circle, which is usually uncovered fast by mods.


I think people would still identify mine...or at least attribute the work of copycats to me. 


Xion said:


> Now the forum will lose its pazazz and be simply Tazmo's Hole of Money.



He already has one of those though.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

I know I said I'd stop, but...



Hiroshi said:


> Rep, as it stands now, doesn't accurately represent contributions...



True.

Yours is waaaay too high

And mine is too low. (So is Von Doom's)

Otherwise who appointed you judge of community worth? You think it's unbalanced because the dudes you do like has low rep and the dude you don't has high?

Well apparently the rest of the community doesn't agree with your views 

You can judge your community worth from rep personally:

*How many did you get?

Do you respect the people who repped you?

Do you get pleasure from the compliments in the comments?*

For me, the rank and number is a side quest, a forum hobby. Something to lol about in the Blender and elsewhere. The stuff I just bolded is the most important bit.

But it does matter to me. 

I'll spare you the whole sob story but in short, my real life sucks. For me, the reps of people who found me funny or clever or just liked me is a new and pleasant experience. My rep is a record of all that. And you're going to take it away? My achievement?

I maybe less offended by this than by a bunch of section mods busting in and dictating to a whole community how things are gonna be. People have invested time and effort in this community and you think you're allowed to just change it?



			
				Hiroshi said:
			
		

> A newer/low-repped member being neg repped from a high repped established member is a great example.



Note to self:

If they do change the rep system be sure to make all new members feel intensely unwelcome and encourage others to do the same. Note that this can be very easily done within the rules.


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## Gunners (Mar 22, 2009)

Wouldn't it be better to severely cap how much you can neg rep someone, restricting it to a set amount like 100 all over? Then keep the positive rep the same or change it the same way. 

Either way I think it would be better if these things weren't based on shit like post account, rep amount and what's the other thing join date.


----------



## Sin (Mar 22, 2009)

> Another thing i thought would be that only posts in certain sections can be repped.



AFAIK, that's not possible unless through a vB Hack, which would require Mbxx... And you know about that.


----------



## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Was there ANYONE on that list who wasn't either a mod or a Blenderite? :S



I didn't recognize some of the names, so I wasn't sure. 

But anyway, it only proves the staff's point that the majority of the major rep players spam and troll- though that may or may not be the only thing they do.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Mar 22, 2009)

?Sharingan Squid? said:


> Para's idea sounds pretty good. Removing names from reps/negs and all.


Removing names is a step backwards. It encourages revange negging and gang negging.

//HbS


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Para said:


> lol
> 
> This is why some people need to be slashed and knocked off their perch. It's that kind of elitist thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.
> 
> ...



The people against "elitism" are taking it as seriously as the elitists. The correct response to such elitism is to point out that it's a result of their online friends jacking them off with rep and mock them for taking a green bar and numbers so seriously.

Attempting to "knock them down" and fueling their sense of importance is retarded.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Was there ANYONE on that list who wasn't either a mod or a Blenderite? :S



Does it really matter?

If they didn't whore then it's not a problem.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Was there ANYONE on that list who wasn't either a mod or a Blenderite? :S



Last of the Arrancar, mow, Jef88, etc.


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Cirus said:


> I believe though the balance will shift for the better.  For people who actually contribute to the forum more and who do good posts.





Malmsey said:


> Most of those people are from the Blender.


What you guys don't realise is that the biggest contributors of joke threads in sections like the Konoha Library eventually retire to the blender. Mods and admins hang out there a lot, it's the only place you can post offtopic and funny shit without worrying about being banned or censored. Of COURSE a lot of rep circulates there. People post drawn comics, edited manga, full fanfiction-style stories, art, gifs, musical compositions, raps, I mean hell; Susano-o has edited entire anime episodes for the sake of making people laugh and people have the audacity to claim the blenderites don't contribute to NF?

Artists and poets are we, not repwhores.

... and most of Final Villain were slashed already so stop bringing that up lol


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> Quote from another thread, from a mod...



Yeah but, negging isn't in anyway gonna do anything to stop someone from continuing trolling, flaming or posting of porn as you quoted.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> Removing names is a step backwards. It encourages revange negging and gang negging.
> 
> //HbS



This.  Besides, we've already been there and done that.


----------



## geG (Mar 22, 2009)

Malmsey said:


> Most of those people are from the Blender.



Not surprising considering there's a lot more chances to be repped in the blender as opposed to somewhere like the Library. A section that's mostly about joking around, original content, and occasional ego-stroking is going to have more posts that people would consider "rep-worthy" than a section that's mostly about discussion or threads about why my favorite character is better than yours


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

The Blender is a great example of Elitism and Rep:

Many new members were rejected, not because of rep but because they didn't fit in and were eventually driven away.

Meanwhile, people like Hollie were accepted due to being awesome and quickly gained gallons of rep. 



Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Was there ANYONE on that list who wasn't either a mod or a Blenderite? :S



Lots of them pre-date the Blender.

And just because you're a Blenderites doesn't mean you can't be other things too.

Zaru has insane rep and is a Blenderite *and has 30k+ posts*

I myself gained most of my rep from the Library but I'm a first generation Blenderite and I was active even before it was made.

And in theory mods should always have high rep because the mods are chosen from the best forumites.

Hahahaha


----------



## Xion (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Note to self:
> 
> If they do change the rep system be sure to make all new members feel intensely unwelcome and encourage others to do the same. Note that this can be very easily done within the rules.



Isn't that how it is already? 

I like everything the way it is. The noobs that do not get it learn the hard way they suck. 

If I ever come across a n00b post with one green bar that says something akin to Itachi>>>>>>>Pain I know instantly to neg them. If neg reps were removed I'd be powerless to get them off their prepubescent power trip. POWERLESS!


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

I see parallels to the AIG sitchy-A-sion now...



Harley said:


> Yeah but, negging isn't in anyway gonna do anything to stop someone from continuing trolling, flaming or posting of porn as you quoted.



Wrong.  And even if you were right, they'd be banned.


----------



## ?Sharingan Squid? (Mar 22, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> Removing names is a step backwards. It encourages revange negging and gang negging.
> 
> //HbS


Really? Revenge negging even though you don't know who negged you in the first place?

And if you're gang negged, then you have an excuse to run to an admin. The admins can see the names afterall...



> AFAIK, that's not possible unless through a vB Hack, which would require Mbxx... And you know about that.



Fuck


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Well neither option you guys gave would show that either. :S


Because we don't want to completely delete the system as members would hate it. Nothing will really completely fix it without that.



Sunuvmann said:


> This whole monitoring is trying to regulate a system that is entirely based on opinions which is foolish at best.


Trying to beat a system that is entirely based on opinions is foolish at best.



Mider T said:


> I disagree, rep makes things alot more fun on the forum, I think this is just a lax solution to trying to solve some problems that come with it.


I know members enjoy it and have fun with it. It's all about compromise and meeting in the middle to balance fun and justice in this case.



Roka said:


> I don't think the people who actually whore for rep do it for the sake of getting a certain rank. I've never seen anyone go "Hey guise rep me I want to be Ascendant so I have a cool word for my rep rank YEAAAAAAH".


.... There are people who repwhore for ranks. Then what do repwhorers do it for Roka?


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Geg said:


> Not surprising considering there's a lot more chances to be repped in the blender as opposed to somewhere like the Library. A section that's mostly about joking around, original content, and occasional ego-stroking is going to have more posts that people would consider "rep-worthy" than a section that's mostly about discussion or threads about why my favorite character is better than yours



Seriously. From the little time I spent there posing as RK or lurking, I've seen people draw and write entire funny comics. Things like this are more or less common fare in the blender. 

That certainly deserves rep more than "I agree, Sasuke is ghey."


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Malmsey said:


> I didn't recognize some of the names, so I wasn't sure.
> 
> But anyway, *it only proves the staff's point that the majority of the major rep players spam and troll*- though that may or may not be the only thing they do.



Do you visit the blender regularly enough to say that they spam and troll? Honestly?

Just because it's a _spam_ section doesn't mean that it's full of idiots making stupid posts. Take a look around, it's full of people who put effort into doing creative stuff with the things they are good at whether it's being witty, drawing really well or editing stuff in a way that's hilarious. Perhaps you should get to know the section a bit better before you judge the members of it as spammers and trolls.

The mods on the list are probably not included in your generalisation of the top 50 unless you're saying that they are also spammers and trolls?


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## Monark (Mar 22, 2009)

@Para & Geg: i wasn't ragging on the Blender, though, I was just making an observation. And in fact, I would also like to point out that, at least from my brief experience with Blinder, the people with the most rep power rarely rep others. it might be different with negs, but I wouldn't know- I've never been negged too badly by the blender.


@roka: you say it like it's a bad thing  

anyway, that's what the Blender _is_. Also, it wasn't my top 50 lol. I quoted someone else.

but you took some impressive liberties with my comment there. I never said that the blenderites are idiotic and _only_ spam and do stupid shit. In fact, I said the opposite.


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## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

For the sake of the poll, I choose "remove neg rep", however I think either option is an example of the staff being too lazy to simply punish the 1% of rep offenders.

I find it disturbing and very telling of the current staff attitude that there is no "leave as is" option. Did no one read the last poll in the other thread regarding reputation? Does the overwhelming population that voted "no change" mean nothing to you?

Who in the top 100k is rep whoring? Why aren't they being punished, if this is such a problem?

People generally rep for contribution, whether it be obvious contribution (i.e. providing a link to something or helping someone with a technical problem) or subtle contribution (i.e. a funny post, a quality post). Removing this system will only bring the quality of the forum down.

Negs are rarely used unfairly, to be honest. Are you an annoying noob that can't speak English? I'm going to fucking neg you, because you made an annoying post. There is nothing unfair about that.

If people are consistently "repwhoring", then why are they not just being punished? This whole "OMFG WE NEED TO CHANGE THE REP SYSTEM BECAUSE OF ALL THE FUCKING REP WHORES" sounds like bullshit.

I suspect there is more to these ideas than just "solving a problem", because the polls and posts in this thread show that there is no problem in the eyes of the majority of members.

And in case you guys forgot, the members create this forum. Not the rules. Not the moderators.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

This is the best post to end this excuse for a debate:



Sunuvmann said:


> This point I thoroughly disagree with.
> 
> Top 50 rep people from a few months ago (Reznor posted it b4)
> 
> ...



As he says, these are seriously the very best people on the forum. Any one of them is worth all the mods supporting this bullshit.

Why punish them?


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> Does it really matter?
> 
> If they didn't whore then it's not a problem.



No but it is weird that 95% of people with high rep post in the same section isn't it? :S A section that is considered the septic tank of NF where more trolling and flaming happens.

I mean, that's weird isn't it?

I'm not saying everyone in there is like that though. Just overall more of that stuff goes on there. And overall the majority of crap I get on NF comes from there for some reason even though I don't post there and generally ignore things dealing with that place. For the most part I don't even talk about them. And honestly I would like to be able to get along better with some of those people and I'm not a hateful person so I'd be willing to change my opinions. It's just that they are unwilling to like me at all it seems.

I mean they also post creative stuff sometimes and what not that's actually funny.....but there is also a lot of trolling.



Mider T said:


> Last of the Arrancar, mow, Jef88, etc.



I've never heard of those people before really.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

> .... There are people who repwhore for ranks. Then what do repwhorers do it for Roka?



I said I didn't think people do it for that, I didn't say they didn't do it 100% and I also didn't say that I knew why they done it. Perhaps they like the colour green?


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

Does anyone honestly think their opinion will be taken into account?

This is a dictatorship, the users' comments and suggestions won't be given a second thought, this thread is merely going through the motions so it can be said "yeah we asked you lot".


----------



## Sin (Mar 22, 2009)

> I've never heard of those people before really.



If you've really never heard of LoTA before, you really need to expand your posting areas.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Sin said:


> If you've really never heard of LoTA before, you really need to expand your posting areas.



Well I have seen him around before but not much and I don't know him.


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> No but it is weird that 95% of people with high rep post in the same section isn't it? :S A section that is considered the septic tank of NF where more trolling and flaming happens.


Yes, Blender is considered the septic tank of NF; that's why lots of staff and ex-staff hang out there and rep them for actually having a sense of humour.

Plus the FC section is the most notorious for circlejerking and whoring rep; most of Final Villain weren't even blenderites.

Oh hey you're Divine. No comment.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> I've never heard of those people before really.



Last of the Arrancar is a very prolific Bleach section member, who I've never seen even step foot in the Blender.

mow is a MDer who's been there since Dinosaur sung the Earth

I don't know who Jef is.


----------



## Hitomi (Mar 22, 2009)

_The rep in rep power is gone and ranks past 100K are gone/100K is renamed._

or don't change anything.


----------



## Elle (Mar 22, 2009)

Byakk? said:


> For the sake of the poll, I choose "remove neg rep", however I think either option is an example of the staff being too lazy to simply punish the 1% of rep offenders.
> 
> I find it disturbing and very telling of the current staff attitude that there is no "leave as is" option. Did no one read the last poll in the other thread regarding reputation? Does the overwhelming population that voted "no change" mean nothing to you?
> 
> ...



In addition to my other two posts here, I definitely agree with Byakk?.  Agree that this is about the minority of offenders and not the majority of us.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> No but it is weird that 95% of people with high rep post in the same section isn't it? :S A section that is considered the septic tank of NF where more trolling and flaming happens.



I've never heard it called the septic tank of NF, way to be a bitch to the people who think that section is good.

Is it weird that people with a similar sense of humour and who enjoy being able to post funny stuff without being warned for off topic posts all gather together? Not really.

Is it weird that those people find each other funny and creative and so rep each other? Not really.

Is it weird that they all the people with the highest rep post in the same area? Not really considering after a while of course they're going to have more rep if they rep more often. It's not really whoring, they just have more reasons to rep than people that spend their times in sections focused on debating.



> I'm not saying everyone in there is like that though. Just overall more of that stuff goes on there. And overall the majority of crap I get on NF comes from there for some reason even though I don't post there and generally ignore things dealing with that place. For the most part I don't even talk about them. And honestly I would like to be able to get along better with some of those people and I'm not a hateful person so I'd be willing to change my opinions. It's just that they are unwilling to like me at all it seems.



Get over it, man up, quit whining, ignore them etc etc

I'm sure you've got plenty of people who like you on here despite some peoples dislike of you, so really this has nothing to do with the rep system, it's more that you don't like most of them because they don't like you and rep has nothing to do with it. 

If they insult you via rep, tell a mod and it gets sorted out. If it keeps happening then they get sealed. I don't see where the problem is.



> I mean they also post creative stuff sometimes and what not that's actually funny.....but there is also a lot of trolling.



You say you try to ignore them but you can adequetly judge what goes on in the section on a daily basis? Interesting


----------



## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

Thats's why people with a lot of rep should be able to transfer their rep to other members.

I remember this one dude hit like Raptorous and then decided to transfer his rep for the greater good. Then he hit rapturous again, but he couldn't transfer his rep again, so he continued to gain rep and is now nearing Divine. If that dude would be able to transfer his rep, the balance would be retained and there wouldn't be an issue right now.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Para said:


> Yes, Blender is considered the septic tank of NF; that's why lots of staff and ex-staff hang out there and rep them for actually having a sense of humour.
> 
> Plus the FC section is the most notorious for circlejerking and whoring rep; most of Final Villain weren't even blenderites.
> 
> Oh hey you're Divine. No comment.



Yep and most people are afraid to ever say anything negative about the Blender.

Anyway, I guess certain FCs are notorious for that but those FCs, at least Final Villain, were destroyed.

Also are you suggesting that I'm Divine because I whore? I've never whored. It took me ages to earn that much rep but whatever because I really don't care if the whole system is removed.



Roka said:


> I've never heard it called the septic tank of NF, way to be a bitch to the people who think that section is good.



Honestly if you really want to know, I heard it from a mod.


----------



## Tsukiyo (Mar 22, 2009)

Kittan said:


> Keep the negs, its a great way to express hate
> 
> *Don't remove the ranks if you were to do the latter, they're there to symbolize how much you have achieved in your forum run*



I agree with this. I don't see why we would remove these in the first place.




The Space Cowboy said:


> How is people getting bent out of shape about little red marks, and the reduction of some number on a server somewhere a problem?  Negs are a decent way to express hatred without starting a post-consuming flame-war.



^ good way to explain it. I'm pretty sure there would be lots of flame threads or something similer if you remove negs. I personally think we should just leave them as is.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> I see parallels to the AIG sitchy-A-sion now...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  And even if you were right, they'd be banned.



How am I wrong? Negs do not ban someone from a section, they do not ban someone from the forums and they don't count as warnings.


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

Byakk? said:


> For the sake of the poll, I choose "remove neg rep", however I think either option is an example of the staff being too lazy to simply punish the 1% of rep offenders.
> 
> I find it disturbing and very telling of the current staff attitude that there is no "leave as is" option. Did no one read the last poll in the other thread regarding reputation? Does the overwhelming population that voted "no change" mean nothing to you?
> 
> ...



I agree with you.

Unfortunately



			
				Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> I've never heard it called the septic tank of NF, way to be a bitch to the people who think that section is good.
> 
> Is it weird that people with a similar sense of humour and who enjoy being able to post funny stuff without being warned for off topic posts all gather together? Not really.
> 
> ...


You hit the nail right on the head, sir; Blender is the section you post funny and/or creative shit. People rep funny and creative shit. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'll have more rep. Now I understand KY has a thing against certain blenderites etc but it's no need to flame the entire section.


----------



## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

ITS OVER NF IS NOW MOTHER RUSSIA WHERE EVERYBODY HAS 100K !!

RED RED RED COMMUNISM FTW


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Para said:


> You hit the nail right on the head, sir; Blender is the section you post funny and/or creative shit. People rep funny and creative shit. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'll have more rep. Now I understand KY has a thing against certain blenderites etc but it's no need to flame the entire section.



I wasn't actually trying to flame them. A mod refered to it as such before. That's the only reason why I even said that. I thought that even the members there consider it as such since it's a place to flame and what not. It's there so that people don't flame as much in other parts of NF.

Also if anyone noticed in a post of mine earlier I said that I don't think everyone in there is bad or anything. So I don't have anything against the 'entire section'. And I wouldn't even dislike it at all if it isn't for how I've been treated by some people there.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

@Hiro: Trying to please everyone will get you nowhere, nor is it effective in the long run.  This is NF's opinion right here, or at least the opinion of people who care, leave it as it is.



Harley said:


> How am I wrong? Negs do not ban someone from a section, they do not ban someone from the forums and they don't count as warnings.



As someone who's posted in a multitude of sections for nearly 3 years now, I can say that alot of members judge people on their rep scale, and I'm not even talking about rank.  I'm talking about red or green, new members who don't even know the ranks (order of them or if they exist at all) usually won't be taken seriously if they have red bars.  You don't have to section ban someone before you find out that they aren't a very good poster.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

So here's the only question people are asking in the Blender right now:

Do any of the mods give a shit what we say?

Because right now the general consensus appears to be you've already made up your minds and we can't alter it one or the other.


----------



## Cirus (Mar 22, 2009)

Para said:


> What you guys don't realise is that the biggest contributors of joke threads in sections like the Konoha Library eventually retire to the blender. Mods and admins hang out there a lot, it's the only place you can post offtopic and funny shit without worrying about being banned or censored. Of COURSE a lot of rep circulates there. People post drawn comics, edited manga, full fanfiction-style stories, art, gifs, musical compositions, raps, I mean hell; Susano-o has edited entire anime episodes for the sake of making people laugh and people have the audacity to claim the blenderites don't contribute to NF?
> 
> Artists and poets are we, not repwhores.
> 
> ... and most of Final Villain were slashed already so stop bringing that up lol


 
Yes I would agree that alot of rep gets thrown around in that area.  Hell I posted in that area for a while.  Though one thing you are forgetting is that it is usually the same 15 people repping each other.  Which in basic terms is one big rep circle that is spread out among several threads at a time. 

Also what do you call it where the same people rep each other over and over?

You are also forgetting that all the edits that go on there are always about the same thing.  Nothing new is posted, and rather the majority of things posted in that area repeated over and over.


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Yep and most people are afraid to ever say anything negative about the Blender.
> 
> Anyway, I guess certain FCs are notorious for that but those FCs, at least Final Villain, were destroyed.
> 
> Also are you suggesting that I'm Divine because I whore? I've never whored. It took me ages to earn that much rep but whatever because I really don't care if the whole system is removed.


People talk shit about the blender all the time, unfounded shit about repwhoring and bullying and herd mentality and yes there are a few idiots and suckups in the Blender but we're mostly a gathering of people from all sections of the forums, trying to be the funniest person in the room.

... and I'm afraid that's exactly what I'm suggesting, but my opinion doesn't count because I post in blender, right?

Mate, I don't care about my green points and the only reputation I actually give a shit about relates to what people think of me as a person. That's why I said removing the system altogether would be a better solution than just adjusting parts to make it worse for everyone, not just the minority of circlejerkers who will not even be affected by either option. Infact, the removal of negging will only make it easier for them.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Cirus said:


> Yes I would agree that alot of rep gets thrown around in that area.  Hell I posted in that area for a while.  Though one thing you are forgetting is that it is usually the same 15 people repping each other.  Which in basic terms is one big rep circle that is spread out among several threads at a time.
> 
> Also what do you call it where the same people rep each other over and over?
> 
> You are also forgetting that all the edits that go on there are always about the same thing.  Nothing new is posted, and rather the majority of things posted in that area repeated over and over.



So if I post funny shit every day and the same people rep me every day, that's a rep circle even though I earned it?


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> So here's the only question people are asking in the Blender right now:
> 
> Do any of the mods give a shit what we say?
> 
> Because right now the general consensus appears to be you've already made up your minds and we can't alter it one or the other.





			
				Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.



Member opinion means squat.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

The Blender is a community of Blenderites.

The reason they hang out together is they enjoy each other's company.

They like each other's posts.

What do you do when you like someone's posts?

That place if full of threads and posts I'm sad I could only rep once.

In short, the mods are a bigger problem than rep. This thread is just final proof of that


----------



## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

A few people have quoted this, but I can't find the post so I'll just copy and paste...





			
				Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.


Isn't that elitism?


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Para said:


> People talk shit about the blender all the time, unfounded shit about repwhoring and bullying and herd mentality and yes there are a few idiots and suckups in the Blender but we're mostly a gathering of people from all sections of the forums, trying to be the funniest person in the room.
> 
> ... and I'm afraid that's exactly what I'm suggesting, but my opinion doesn't count because I post in blender, right?
> 
> Mate, I don't care about my green points and the only reputation I actually give a shit about relates to what people think of me as a person. That's why I said removing the system altogether would be a better solution than just adjusting parts to make it worse for everyone, not just the minority of circlejerkers who will not even be affected by either option. Infact, the removal of negging will only make it easier for them.



I never said your opinion doesn't count because you post there. :S

Honestly I don't judge people based on if they post in the Blender or not. I have made friends with a few people who post there. I am not unwilling to make friends with people from there. I do not think they are evil shitty people.

I simply in general get most of the crap I get on the board from that section but I do not base it off everyone there. There is more flaming that happens in there and more trolling, which is why it's considered the most negative part of the board. But I do not use that to judge individuals from that section. I look at an individual person, not the group. Overall I don't like that place, but that doesn't blind me from seeing people for who they are.

I have no reason to dislike you Para because you have never been one of the people who treated me horribly. So I do not see you as any less just because you post in that section.

Also I do agree that there are a lot of creative things there. I just have a more negative view of it because everything that ever happened to me that had to do with that section was bad.

I'm sorry if I upset you. I have no reason to believe that you aren't a good poster.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

@ Hollie:

Many mods got their position because of their friendship with existing mods 

You're preaching to the converted.



Tobirama said:


> Member opinion means squat.



It doesn't have to be a Democracy for the community to be thought of.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

> There is more flaming that happens in there and more trolling, which is why it's considered the most negative part of the board.



I guess you've never been to the Library


----------



## colours (Mar 22, 2009)

and now it has turned into the blender discussion i don't even . . .



i like spy_smasher's theory


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

As I said, anyone who sets up this elaborate rep embezzlement scheme you guys are alluding to deserves the validation they get from it. Obviously, they're pathetic and unloved in their everyday life; why take away their internet props, their sole solace that has stopped them from going the way of Ernest Hemingway?


----------



## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Actually during the Rep Inquisition I think the high rep people not from the Blender were the most suspicious...


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

The bottom line is no rep system means no rep whoring, no neg rep complaint, and no derogatory remarks in people's User CP.  

What is rep good for? Lets see here... making yourself appear more powerful and liked when you could of just gained all that rep by circle jerking with your rep whoring friends. Lets see here... rep is great for putting nasty comments on people's User CP if you don't like them because they have a different opinion then you or your debating with them over an issue and you find it is always important to leave that special "fuck you ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" neg rep. Of course if your one of those "contributors" who finds it funny to shoot down someone's rep because you didn't like them for one tiny reason and find it funny to have them PM/Comment you for that neg rep. What is someone gonna do who doesn't go around rep whoring in FCs or Blender?  They can leave a neg rep but it will mean shit to someone who breaths, feeds and makes love off of rep.

The way I see it is all these people crying about their rep are crying because they won't feel like moderators anymore because apparently some people think neg repping someone is punishing them and spanking them.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

FYI there are no tears in my eyes


----------



## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

KY stop flamebaiting the Blender please. Aside all the flamebaiting you are being terrible offense and give of the demeanor of a racist.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> The bottom line is no rep system means no rep whoring, no neg rep complaint, and no derogatory remarks in people's User CP.
> 
> What is rep good for? Lets see here... making yourself appear more powerful and liked when you could of just gained all that rep by circle jerking with your rep whoring friends. Lets see here... rep is great for putting nasty comments on people's User CP if you don't like them because they have a different opinion then you or your debating with them over an issue and you find it is always important to leave that special "fuck you ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" neg rep. Of course if your one of those "contributors" who finds it funny to shoot down someone's rep because you didn't like them for one tiny reason and find it funny to have them PM/Comment you for that neg rep. What is someone gonna do who doesn't go around rep whoring in FCs or Blender?  They can leave a neg rep but it will mean shit to someone who breaths, feeds and makes love off of rep.
> 
> The way I see it is all these people crying about their rep are crying because they won't feel like moderators anymore because apparently some people think neg repping someone is punishing them and spanking them.



For showing appreciation or lack of it, also commending people on their work.  It also can work in rehabilitating people who are an annoyance (kind of like corporal punishment).  Ignoring the problem (what you're doing) isn't going to solve anything and is just a lazy way out.

It's like saying what good are gifts?  You don't expect them but you're happy to receive them nonetheless.


----------



## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> The way I see it is all these people crying about their rep are crying because they won't feel like moderators anymore because apparently some people think neg repping someone is punishing them and spanking them.



Oh yes. I'm sure all of them really just want to be moderators deep down inside. Have you perhaps taken a high school psychology class? I was just wondering because you seem really talented at reading peoples' hidden motives.


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:
			
		

> The bottom line is no rep system means no rep whoring, no neg rep complaint, and no derogatory remarks in people's User CP.



Isn't that the reasoning of most fictional Dystopian civilizations? No freedom = no problems. 

We all know how well that works out.

Disproportional analogy is disproportional

This is coming from someone who negs once every blue moon, took 2 years to become Ascendant, and knows he would make a shitty mod.


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> It doesn't have to be a Democracy for the community to be thought of.



Sure but in the end it amounts to the same thing: mods getting together and doing what they decide on, the vast majority of users having no say.

As I said earlier this thread is useless, they've probably already decided which of the 2 options will be integrated, it's merely going through the motions.

Also note how the option of "leave as is" doesn't exist here despite 50% of voters choosing that option in the other thread.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Well everyone who wants the rep system wants the power to give something to their friends and give something to people they dislike. Am I wrong?

You wanna keep the power to be able reward your friends, and knock people you don't like down a few notches.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> I guess you've never been to the Library



Well a lot of trolling happens in the Library yes but it's not the same kind of trolling....it's more bashing people on what characters they like and trolling characters. It isn't people posting leaked nudes of someone and trashing them in ways like that.

Why would anyone LIKE a place that did that to them? I didn't come to this board disliking that section off the bat. And I still do not dislike everyone from there and I am not unwilling to change my opinion about members there who have hurt me in the past or anything either because I'm not that kind of person.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I can see why other people like that place because there are other things that can be experienced there which are good. Just for me, nothing good ever happened for me there.

I won't talk about it anymore now.


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Adonis said:


> As I said, anyone who sets up this elaborate rep embezzlement scheme you guys are alluding to deserves the validation they get from it. Obviously, they're pathetic and unloved in their everyday life, why take away their internet props, the only thing that has stopped them from going the way of Ernest Hemingway?



That's the thing; there isn't one. People think Blenderites are in some huge repcircle when the fact is, repcircles get spotted and dealt with quickly by the staff (Final Villain, Hachimata, etc). The fact is, as I said earlier, a lot of staff rep the Blenderites themselves for posting funny and creative threads on a regular basis and the few staff that are apparently calling us a cesspool to KY must not even take a look into the forum to see that it isn't as bad as everyone says it is.

Blender respects their mods more than other sections do, too; we love Iria and Zaru and Blind Itachi (lol... though we may not show it). We loved Robotkiller and Shroomsday and Suzuhiko. Mods that visit us like Jetstorm and Kira Yamato and Splintered and Rhaella... the list goes on. Mods in Konoha Library get shat on by their members and harrassed and accused of bias and threads are made for their demotion... and the BLENDER are meant to be the assholes? Give me a break.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

> It isn't people posting leaked nudes of someone and trashing them in ways like that.



So you're saying the blender is like the world media?


----------



## tgre (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> The bottom line is no rep system means no rep whoring, no neg rep complaint, and no derogatory remarks in people's User CP.
> 
> What is rep good for? Lets see here... making yourself appear more powerful and liked when you could of just gained all that rep by circle jerking with your rep whoring friends. Lets see here... rep is great for putting nasty comments on people's User CP if you don't like them because they have a different opinion then you or your debating with them over an issue and you find it is always important to leave that special "fuck you ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" neg rep. Of course if your one of those "contributors" who finds it funny to shoot down someone's rep because you didn't like them for one tiny reason and find it funny to have them PM/Comment you for that neg rep. What is someone gonna do who doesn't go around rep whoring in FCs or Blender?  They can leave a neg rep but it will mean shit to someone who breaths, feeds and makes love off of rep.
> 
> The way I see it is all these people crying about their rep are crying because they won't feel like moderators anymore because apparently some people think neg repping someone is punishing them and spanking them.



Reputation was never meant for personal vendetta-like uses. The positive side of reputation far outweighs the negatives.

I personally couldn't give two farts about rep but with this new rep scheme coming in... it seriously looks to sabotage NF's traffic.

Just because a select few members (including alot of the moderators it looks like) feel that the reputation system needs a re-vamp, does not mean that it'll fix anything.

The members who appreciate the reputation system far outweigh the members who don't. A good post gets repped, a crap post gets negged.

That's how it was.

We can't control revenge negging because that's just someone being angry, and you're encouraged to report revenge negging to moderators. If you have your own sense of pride not to, then shut the fuck up.

If you get gang-negged, then complain, if you're one of the minority of the boards that doesn't give a shit about reputation or other members then it shouldn't affect you at all.

You stated the reasons why we shouldn't have reputation based on personal or your friend's experiences. The reputation system itself doesn't have any real exploitable flaws... it's just human nature to not like some people. The reputation system won't change that.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well everyone who wants the rep system wants the power to give something to their friends and give something to people they dislike. Am I wrong?
> 
> You wanna keep the power to be able reward your friends, and knock people you don't like down a few notches.



About the first part yes, I and alot of others give pos reps to random posts that we find amusing.  However, if you pertain to a certain sections and become "chummy" with the members there and they say things to make you laugh or something, they get repped simple as.

As for the second point, you're on the money.  I mean, why would negs even exist otherwise?


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Mar 22, 2009)

Honestly, why remove the neg rep? Might as well remove repping in general. I say keep it. If you can't take what kind of rep you get, then that's your problem. Hell, some negs are fun to get, especially when they leave comments. A rep is a rep, it's not like it's going to effect you in real life, and it's not like you can't have your rep bar changed to a different color by the mods, or just turn off your rep bar, it's not that hard.


----------



## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well everyone who wants the rep system wants the power to give something to their friends and give something to people they dislike. Am I wrong?



Why make an oversimplified friends/enemies comparison? Besides being the basis for superficial / goal-oriented friendships, the rep system is more importantly user-level quality control.

Of course people won't follow the rules, but that's what the moderators are for.


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well everyone who wants the rep system wants the power to give something to their friends and give something to people they dislike. Am I wrong?
> 
> You wanna keep the power to be able reward your friends, and knock people you don't like down a few notches.



I must be an anamoly.

I don't have any people on here I'd really call friends (Jello, Merlin, Aldrick and RobotKiller might be exceptions) thus no one I feel compelled to reward unconditionally.

I do have "enemies" but even they'll vouch I don't neg them except maybe once or twice. I probably pos rep them (w/ a mean comment) more often in order to be ironic and unpredictable.


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.



Thread over, staff does not give two shits about your opinion


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> The bottom line is no rep system means no rep whoring, no neg rep complaint, and no derogatory remarks in people's User CP.
> 
> What is rep good for? Lets see here... making yourself appear more powerful and liked when you could of just gained all that rep by circle jerking with your rep whoring friends. Lets see here... rep is great for putting nasty comments on people's User CP if you don't like them because they have a different opinion then you or your debating with them over an issue and you find it is always important to leave that special "fuck you ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" neg rep. Of course if your one of those "contributors" who finds it funny to shoot down someone's rep because you didn't like them for one tiny reason and find it funny to have them PM/Comment you for that neg rep. What is someone gonna do who doesn't go around rep whoring in FCs or Blender?  They can leave a neg rep but it will mean shit to someone who breaths, feeds and makes love off of rep.



I also have some good suggestions on how to reduce flaming on NF:

- There's alot of arguing over Uchihas so lets ban all the Uchiha fans
- Same for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict so lets get rid of all the Jews (lawl)
- And KY seems to often be at the centre of one firestorm or another so lets ban her too

If you have a few rats in your house the solution isn't to burn it down. Not only is it far too extreme but new rats will just move in afterwards.

Maybe getting rid of Rep was an option when the forum was new but now a whole community has formed. For an apparent majority of them they like the rep as it is, so leave it.

*And this will increase flaming, not decrease it*

People will take it all to forum posts. They will continue through multiple replies and since it's public it's like other's will get involved too.



> The way I see it is all these people crying about their rep are crying because they won't feel like moderators anymore because apparently some people think neg repping someone is punishing them and spanking them.



Stop this strawmanning please. We're all speaking for ourselves, don't put words in our mouths.


----------



## Snickers (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well everyone who wants the rep system wants the power to give something to their friends and give something to people they dislike. Am I wrong?
> 
> You wanna keep the power to be able reward your friends, and knock people you don't like down a few notches.



Then why , instead of just deleting the rep system, is the staff looking to handicap it beyond repair (putting it into a vegetative state) ? I've asked it a million times in this thread. Why don't they just delete it , instead of making such a big fuss. 

That's why you shouldn't let them library mods take care of  discussing this matter. They are too damaged with NARFUTOE > SAsuke rasenganchidori threads , they can only discuss with a biased, prejudiced pov.


----------



## Ciupy (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well everyone who wants the rep system wants the power to give something to their friends and give something to people they dislike. Am I wrong?
> 
> You wanna keep the power to be able reward your friends, and knock people you don't like down a few notches.



It also validates what they have been doing on this forum and the fact that they have been dedicating a portion of their lives to this forum.


It can also be abused yes,but you have to take in the good with the bad.


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## tgre (Mar 22, 2009)

Atleast rep contains the flaming to the usercp and in a private manner.

Once it's removed, people will start to vent through PMs and threads.

Start making things a little more public.

I mean it already does happen for a few members who are especially retarded, but like TPN said, removing the rep system will only increase flaming in more diverse mediums.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Well it doesn't seem like their gonna completely delete the rep system, if their not doing that then might as well just leave it as it is.


----------



## quizzlix?! (Mar 22, 2009)

if i had to pick one or the other then i guess i would pick the first option
i mean it don't rep very often and i neg rep even less so for me it wouldn't affect me to horribly.

honestly i think taking away rep ranks would cause more BAWWWWWWW and 'REMEMBER THEE OLD REP SYSTEM" thread and simultaneously more butthurt for everyone

but unless i know this is definite im not voting


----------



## Mitarashi Anko (Mar 22, 2009)

The post count + join date idea is sort of a good idea, but it has its major flaws too.  There's people like me who have had an NF forum account for a long time but only recently started using it.  Also, it's probably not a good idea to make post count a factor for rep power.  I imagine the people who use the rep system irresponsibly are scattered all across the board from low post count to high. 

Really, if I had to choose, I'd probably pick the 2nd choice, but with a good few adjustments.  Removing neg rep means all those people who prefer infamy over fame are getting screwed.  I can't understand why they like being swords of despair and whatnot, but I can understand that they do.  And I suppose it's alright that they get to request all reps given them to be neg if that's what floats their boat.  On the other hand, the 2nd change has the potential to be a much less harsh way to fix it.  But the flaws I mentioned make it little better than the 1st, but in that they might cause new problems.  Plus, 100k doesn't seem like a big goal, even with the inflations gone.  If someone really wants highest rep rank that badly, it could be reached quickly by making a graphics request shop or something similar to "farm" rep from the thanks of users with varying amounts of rep power  :\  

In the end, this is all up to the admins.  It's up to them to think on whether a change is really that important and would really eliminate all the problems, as well as whether the current system is all that bad.  Unless the main purpose of this is a bid to make it available in chatterbox and blender?  *~*;



As an aside, I haven't really encountered problems with neg rep like revenge even with the few negs that i've given out.  And as for things I've said that deserved negs - I have some opinions that are probably callous enough to get me a lynching - people don't fling negs out of sheer disagreement.  I've only been negged twice: the first time was because the placement of my disagreeable comment was in the introduction before my argument began, and perhaps they didn't read the rest.  I wouldn't blame them for being put off though; it's a normal reaction to reading someone's fond reminiscences of times when tactics like using civilians as shock troops were used.  The second time was for a post that contained major manga spoilers in an anime thread.  Damn well deserved.

But hey, that's just me.  My experiences with the rep system are a grain of sand among those of the rest of NF's population.  Hopefully enough people will contribute theirs to help admins make sense of what should be done.

PS:  If you lower and rename the max rank, make it the "pierced the heavens - who the hell do you think they are!?" one? x3  Or at least the second to max!  No wait.  It and it alone deserves to be highest


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I also have some good suggestions on how to reduce flaming on NF:
> 
> - There's alot of arguing over Uchihas so lets ban all the Uchiha fans
> - Same for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict so lets get rid of all the Jews (lawl)
> - And KY seems to often be at the centre of one firestorm or another so lets ban her too



Since we're banning anything that generates conflict, this is the most sound suggestion in the thread.


----------



## E (Mar 22, 2009)

my two cents 


leave it the same 


kthnxbai


----------



## tgre (Mar 22, 2009)

I still have some faith in the staff to listen to the members and make a judgment based on some democratic merit but past experience is smacking me in the face again.

This new scheme won't affect me, but I sure as hell can predict that if it gets put into place- one, or both of the two things will happen:

1) reduced traffic.
2) Chaos. Flaming etc.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Mar 22, 2009)

Hell, it's not like people won't flame you anyways if it were to be removed. People can still give out a positive rep, but at the same time post derogatory or disgusting comments while doing so when you would think that it was meant to be a positive rep before reading the comment. That and flaming via PMs and such as Disleksik has said.


----------



## Cronos (Mar 22, 2009)

tGre teh Disleksik said:


> but I sure as hell can predict that if it gets put into place one, or both of the two things will happen:
> 
> 1) reduced traffic.
> 2) Chaos. Flaming etc.



you can bet your house, wife, children on it


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

tGre teh Disleksik said:


> I still have some faith in the staff to listen to the members and make a judgment based on some democratic merit but past experience is smacking me in the face again.
> 
> This new scheme won't affect me, but I sure as hell can predict that if it gets put into place one, or both of the two things will happen:
> 
> ...



1) Yeah because the only reason people register on NF are to play with rep.
2) As if that doesn't already happen, and if not because of rep.


----------



## Susano-o (Mar 22, 2009)

*I'm going to neg KY now because I simply dislike her ways.*

If the staff feels I should base my act of negging on other reasons feel free to take all of my rep and distribute it to all those whiners who complain about the rep system. Also, make sure to (and I mentioned this before when 'reasons for negging' were also being discussed in previous drama events) compile an exhaustive list of viable reasons to give out reputation, because if you don't spell it out we may risk overstepping our boundaries again by expressing our autonomy. It seems the staff thinks us incapable of judging what should be repped/valued and what not. _Newsflash, pretty boys: people value different stuff for different reasons._

As for the thread's topic: 2nd option is preferable, but I would like to add that this system works fine for me and I prefer it the way it is. I agree with most people here that it wasn't really wise to leave out the other 2 options Snickers mentioned.



LOL Yariko if you see this... I didn't last half a day 
but OK I will get the fuck away now and study


----------



## Memos (Mar 22, 2009)

I think the best comprimise is to let everyone have an equal amount of repping or neging power but still let them have their rep points as high as it gets within the current point and rank system.

This way it wouldn't matter how much rep you have as it wouldn't reflect on your rep altering power and therefore would cut out repwhoring.

People could still obviously mass-neg in groups or alone, but this would obviously be dealt with by the mods as is already the case.

The rep amount could differ between senior members and junior members. (or whatever the term is for non-senior members). Junior members could have 50 pos rep altering power and 25 neg rep altering power and those figures could be doubled for senior members.


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

tGre teh Disleksik said:


> I still have some faith in the staff to listen to the members and make a judgment based on some democratic merit but past experience is smacking me in the face again.




Sorry mate, it ain't going to happen. To quote a mod "This board has never been and will never become a democracy".


----------



## KFC (Mar 22, 2009)

It seems like a better option to just go ahead and change the formula for rep power. There' no point in getting rid of neg reps, because (I think so anyway) they're a big thing to some people. Getting rid of the ability to show someone that they're stupid and immature is NOT GOOD!


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> I think the best comprimise is to let everyone have an equal amount of repping or neging power but still let them have their rep points as high as it gets within the current point and rank system.
> 
> This way it wouldn't matter how much rep you have as it wouldn't reflect on your rep altering power and therefore would cut out repwhoring.
> 
> ...



Why make stuff boring just so everyone gets a "fair share"?


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 22, 2009)

people should only neg rep if the person is doing bad stuff and not because the like something.


----------



## Saruto (Mar 22, 2009)

NF is like an MMORPG.

You wouldn't be much a of a game dev if you took away people's armour or ability to attack now, would you?

Can't prove me wrong.


----------



## tgre (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> 1) Yeah because the only reason people register on NF are to play with rep.
> 2) As if that doesn't already happen, and if not because of rep.



No, people register to discuss Naruto, the reputation system was enforced to be an incentive for people to stay.

After a few months of registration, do you honestly think people will be as avid on Naruto as when they first joined (although some may be an exception), they will make friends, it's human nature to want to be known. They want reputation, they want to fit in and unless you've got the psychology of a sociopath then they'd want to be able to rise through the "ranks" of NF society.

The reputation allows it.

Oh and you think NF is in a state of Chaos already?



You're either very ignorant or you have nothing better to say so you argue for the sake of an argument without any real validity.



Tobirama said:


> Sorry mate, it ain't going to happen. To quote a mod "This board has never been and will never become a democracy".



That's more like a gospel more than a fact here :/

EDIT:



sanin3 said:


> people should only neg rep if the person is doing bad stuff and not because the like something.



I can understand your sincerity, but this is probably the most naive thing in this thread.

Your idea is what the general population of NF wants. The members prevent this from being a reality.

It's like communism- the reputation system is good in theory, but failed in practice.

Only difference is, the reputation system is also one of the more enticing aspects of this board.


----------



## Dr.Majestic (Mar 22, 2009)

surely removing it infringes some notions of freedom of speech...


----------



## Miss Fortune (Mar 22, 2009)

I see no problems with any systems. I mean, you have to have the freedom to express what you think! Negs are the neg answers and reps are the rep answers! I mean, sure the comments can get a little much, but you appreciate the fact that someone took the time to actually neg or rep you because they care that much.

I'm not voting because
1: The reps are a type of thing that make people feel good, knowing that peeps around them can get along with them.
2: *I love negs dammit!! I live off of them! Look at my bar! I wanted it that way and dammit I'm keeping it.*


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## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.
> Thread over, staff does not give two shits about your opinion



thread            over


----------



## Cronos (Mar 22, 2009)

Saruto said:


> NF is like an MMORPG.
> 
> You wouldn't be much a of a game dev if you took away people's armour or ability to attack now, would you?
> 
> Can't prove me wrong.



game of the century


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## Memos (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> Why make stuff boring just so everyone gets a "fair share"?



Because it would be the best way to keep the mods happy by removing repwhoring whilst also letting people have as much rep as they want.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Susano-o said:


> *I'm going to neg KY now because I simply dislike her ways.*



Yeah well a lot of you just proved that you can't stand the fact that I have a different opinion of the Blender, even though I have a pretty good reason for not liking the place.

I don't think most people who were treated the way I have been would like it either. All my experiences with that place were negative. Why would I like it there? I never got to see the fun side of it because I was only ever flamed and treated badly. So why would I see it as some kind of fun place?

I mean seriously you guys can at least understand why I would not like the place, right?

However I still see people as individuals and so I'm never going to see someone's opinion as crap simply because they are a part of the Blender group. I still listen to what people have to say and I'm even willing to change my opinion or become friends with people who treated me badly in the past. I just don't think any of them would ever give me a chance anyway because I think they dislike me more than I dislike them.


----------



## ?Sharingan Squid? (Mar 22, 2009)

> This board has never been and will never become a democracy.



This was clear to me from the moment i saw the name "Pek".

Oh and look who's the thread starter!


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> Because it would be the best way to keep the mods happy by removing repwhoring whilst also letting people have as much rep as they want.



People don't come to a forum to keep the staff happy, this isn't about the staff.  From time to time, the staff is wrong and you're free to call them out for it in the Q & C sections.  Just accepting it and letting everyone get everything the same is an even lazier solution than what the staff themselves suggested.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Mar 22, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> Because it would be the best way to keep the mods happy by removing repwhoring whilst also letting people have as much rep as they want.



Which basically still wouldn't solve the problem in of itself, whilst people can still flame and discrimate through PMs, still make hate/spite threads, or do it through positive repping with hate comments. Might as well keep it the way it is. 

Repwhoring wouldn't die even if you did take away neg repping. You'd just get called out or taken advantage of, or to put it simply, *TROLLED*.


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Can we keep it civil, please? We were all debating this rationally until people starting namecalling sections.


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Yeah well a lot of you just proved that you can't stand the fact that I have a different opinion of the Blender, even though I have a pretty good reason for not liking the place.
> 
> I don't think most people who were treated the way I have been would like it either. All my experiences with that place were negative. Why would I like it there? I never got to see the fun side of it because I was only ever flamed and treated badly. So why would I see it as some kind of fun place?
> 
> ...



argh...how does your personal opinion translate to everybodys opinion, like or dislike its a matter of choice...argh


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## Slips (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Yeah well a lot of you just proved that you can't stand the fact that I have a different opinion of the Blender, even though I have a pretty good reason for not liking the place.
> 
> I don't think most people who were treated the way I have been would like it either. All my experiences with that place were negative. Why would I like it there? I never got to see the fun side of it because I was only ever flamed and treated badly. So why would I see it as some kind of fun place?
> 
> ...



I don't even know who the hell you are but just from tyour replys alone all I have seen is 

Blender this
Blender that
There mean
There rep whores
They troll

for that reason alone you come across as arrogant , offensive and dam right annoying  

I have a rule for people like you and its called the ignore list this thread is not about your pathetic personal vendetta 

Begone


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## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.
> Thread over, staff does not give two shits about your opinion



thread                     over


----------



## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 22, 2009)

Im out a pair of days and then I found this crap

Both options are shit.

What happened to the innocence that we had back in 2006 about the rep??


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> *Yeah well a lot of you just proved that you can't stand the fact that I have a different opinion of the Blender, even though I have a pretty good reason for not liking the place.
> 
> I don't think most people who were treated the way I have been would like it either. All my experiences with that place were negative. Why would I like it there? I never got to see the fun side of it because I was only ever flamed and treated badly. So why would I see it as some kind of fun place?
> 
> ...



That can happen on any forum or section, it's just the the Blender has more leniency with the flame than you would outside of it. A forum is basically a shit stain without flame, drama, and other epic shit. And yes, we understand how it is, it's not like anyone has never been flamed before, outside of the Blender as a matter of fact. 

And if you can't really take it how people reply to you or your comments, then don't post in the section at all, or just reply to those that aren't flaming you, even though it's playful flame, as it usually is, till the real shit happens, then I sit back and laugh.


----------



## tgre (Mar 22, 2009)

KY + fellow Blenderites: let's stay on topic guys.

@Meg: you're doing just great baby, don't stop.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Spanish Hoffkage said:


> Im out a pair of days and then I found this crap
> 
> Both options are shit.
> 
> What happened to the innocence that we had back in 2006 about the rep??



argh...they died when people started whoring...argh


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

Also, KY, you're not the only person on this fucking forum

Just because the Blender and the neg rep system has been so GODDAMN MEAN TO YOU, doesn't mean the system should be changed


----------



## Saruto (Mar 22, 2009)

?Sharingan Squid? said:


> This was clear to me from the moment i saw the name "Pek".
> 
> Oh and look who's the thread starter!



You know, for an Uchiha, you're a pretty cool guy.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...how does your personal opinion translate to everybodys opinion, like or dislike its a matter of choice...argh



I never said it is everyone's opinion or that it should be everyone's opinion. :S



Slips said:


> I don't even know who the hell you are but just from tyour replys alone all I have seen is
> 
> Blender this
> Blender that
> ...



I'm not arrogant at all. And people are failing to see that I didn't say everyone is the Blender is bad. I did not label the Blender as a whole bad or anything like that. I don't base things on that but in general my experiences there have been bad. So as a whole I see it in general as a not very nice place. But when it comes to it's individual members I don't base it that way.

And it went off in this direction because people questioned why I feel the way I do.

Also, I mean, I don't even post there but I still get crap from there.

Anyway I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything. I'm writing my argument in a civil manner. :S So I don't really know why people are getting so offended.

It seems like I might as well just stop posting though because it's not going anywhere anyway.



Byakkö said:


> Also, KY, you're not the only person on this fucking forum
> 
> Just because the Blender and the neg rep system has been so GODDAMN MEAN TO YOU, doesn't mean the system should be changed



Did you see my post where I changed my mind and said that things should just stay the way they are for the most part?

Also, don't you think I know I'm not the only person on this forum?

However, I'm just giving my opinion like everyone else. I'm sure that everyone else is making a choice based on their own best interests also.


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## tgre (Mar 22, 2009)

Well this thread was pretty much useless even before the discussion started.

The only real discussion that's happening is going on between staff and the decision will be based on that.

I'd hold my breath but I doubt I'll be surprised with the outcome.


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## E (Mar 22, 2009)

well, just to make a useful post, look at BE forums, they have a system of "equal" rep power and "equal ranks"






yea, that place sucks balls


----------



## The777Man (Mar 22, 2009)

Just get rid of rep power.


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## Slips (Mar 22, 2009)

tGre teh Disleksik said:


> KY + fellow Blenderites: let's stay on topic guys.
> 
> @Meg: you're doing just great baby, don't stop.



Indeed apology's my good man shes on ignore now so that shall stop.

Now I need to read around 18 pages so I dont repeat anything oh joy


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

tGre teh Disleksik said:


> KY + fellow Blenderites: let's stay on topic guys.
> 
> @Meg: you're doing just great baby, don't stop.


rotfl TJ I am staying on-topic as much as possible <3



			
				Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.
> Thread over, staff does not give two shits about your opinion



thread        over


----------



## ~Flippy (Mar 22, 2009)

Remove negs, its annoying when people do it for dumb reasons.


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## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> I never said it is everyone's opinion or that it should be everyone's opinion. :S
> 
> I'm not arrogant at all. And people are failing to see that I didn't say everyone is the Blender is bad. *I did not label the Blender as a whole bad or anything like that.* I don't base things on that but in general my experiences there have been bad. So as a whole I see it in general as a not very nice place. But when it comes to it's individual members I don't base it that way.
> 
> ...





Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> *A section that is considered the septic tank of NF* where more trolling and flaming happens.



.................


----------



## Susano-o (Mar 22, 2009)

fuck this shit, robert made an appearance in Blender

*runs off to my precious*

/takes KY with him so thread stays on topic & dramatic

edit: fucking come with me, bitch!  like a damn bitch on heat without a leash . COME HERE! let's leave the grown ups to talk


----------



## .44 (Mar 22, 2009)

Why is this thread even about the Blender at this point?

I mean, I know they're all meanies, but that still doesn't seem to be relevant.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Mar 22, 2009)

E said:


> well, just to make a useful post, look at BE forums, they have a system of "equal" rep power and "equal ranks"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



^ 



Byakk? said:


> Spy_Smasher said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hallelujah


----------



## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 22, 2009)

Ark 13.0 said:


> argh...they died when people started whoring...argh



there always was whoring

nobody give a shit tough


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

~Flippy said:


> Remove negs, its annoying when people do it for dumb reasons.



So it represents the whole population and we should remove the entire thing for a minority?


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## tgre (Mar 22, 2009)

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Roka said:


> .................



I didn't mean it to be taken in that context. I said that because a mod also said it and I agreed with the mod because overall most people know that it exists so that people will do their flaming and trolling and such there instead of other places on the board. I thought that people in the Blender even viewed the place as such themselves.

And I meant that in general my experiences there have been bad. I was not meaning that everyone in that section is bad and I already explained that.

Anyway I'm tried of people continuing to question me in this thread even though I already explained what I meant.


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## Shinigami Perv (Mar 22, 2009)

Don't really see a problem with either one. I'm on one large forum where negs are removed, and everything works fine. Negs are there to be abused and cause animosity between members. If I don't like what a member says, I'll say it in a pos rep or a reply, but never a neg. 

The other option is good too. Basically, people from certain areas of the forum where rep abuse is the highest perpetuate that abuse, since rep is linked to rep power. 

I'm a fan of both, and don't see why they should be mutually exclusive.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 22, 2009)

there should be specific stuff that people have to meet to get repped. the peson who likes bad rep should go to the OBD and say they like twilight and you'll get like 3 or more bad reps on it. people even admit that they will never say twilight win cus the hate it. the OBD is ready to rep people who like other stuff too. its unfair cus your opinion gets a bunch of bad rep. people shouldn't get reped at all for opinions. that is the only problem i see with the system but the rest is great.


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## Highgoober (Mar 22, 2009)

Because some people apparently think that the blender is full of rep whores and people who neg and flame people and generally abuse the system. Most of that seems to come from people not spending enough time lurking or actually being in the blender. So basically they see all you guys with the high rep posting together and having fun and assume that because some of you negged someone for being an idiot that you guys are evil and deserve to burn for abusing the system.


yeah.

/too tired to argue anymore


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the
> staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.




Nice Post,


----------



## ~Flippy (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> So it represents the whole population and we should remove the entire thing for a minority?



I didnt say that, but all the negs I have gotten were for stupid reasons like spam or "lulz". I didnt know I cant have an opinion.


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I would love to remove rep altogether. Removing the 'rep' in rep power makes it so that people can't have influence on each other by how much rep they have.  Higher repper can't hurt/help users just because of their rep.
> 
> Here are some numbers:
> 
> ...


Postwhoring for rep-power is JUST as prevalent as repwhoring for rep-power. except one requires nothing more than spam (oh okay, 'postwhoring', as if there's any difference in substance), and the other requires other people to believe you deserve the rep.


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the
> staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.




this                       .


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Spanish Hoffkage said:


> there always was whoring
> 
> nobody give a shit tough



argh...remembe rthe rep games, or the 3k rep fanclub...argh, good times....argh


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> there should be specific stuff that people have to meet to get repped. the peson who likes bad rep should go to the OBD and say they like twilight and you'll get like 3 or more bad reps on it. people even admit that they will never say twilight win cus the hate it. the OBD is ready to rep people who like other stuff too. its unfair cus your opinion gets a bunch of bad rep. people shouldn't get reped at all for opinions. that is the only problem i see with the system but the rest is great.



If you feel strongly and comfortable enough to voice your opinion then negs shouldn't even matter, they aren't gonna change it.  And afterwhile people will get used to it.


~Flippy said:


> I didnt say that, but all the negs I have gotten were for stupid reasons like spam or "lulz". I didnt know I cant have an opinion.



Those people also have an opinion.  One contrasting from yours.  That's a perfectly valid reason to neg.  Unless they do it repeatedly then it's abuse which you can report.

Hell, I got a neg in the Cafe not long ago from someone saying "lol Hyuuga fan" which I haven't even mentioned til now.


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

Can we haz NF UNION plz?


----------



## SilverCross (Mar 22, 2009)

honestly not caring for either option.....if i had to choose one, I'd say lose neg reps....but everything else listed with that option i dont much like.

the 2nd isnt much better....I'd lose the majority of my rep, and more then likely never get it back because of where i post.

not that im that concerned with rep....but basing it off posts isnt going to fix anything...spaming then gives you more rep o.O nothings fixed, it just doesnt matter anymore.
then for those who dont spam, essentially are punished by losing, then not getting much rep due to not posting as much, or if like me, posting in places where they dont count...


----------



## Kittan (Mar 22, 2009)

Slips said:


> I don't even know who the hell you are but just from tyour replys alone all I have seen is
> 
> Blender this
> Blender that
> ...



You earned another spot on my TO REP LIST.

I say don't remove the negs. There should always be a balancing force keeping things in check. Rep is a popularity/achievement measurement here.
The negs balance it in a way and plus, removing it will make people E-ASSAULT people in posts rather than just negging and skipping away.
Its like yin and yang, earth and air, TJ and Adam, vagina and penis.
Take one away and you fuck the balance up.


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.



why is the thread not over yet? this should solve everything


----------



## Vermillionage (Mar 22, 2009)

I for my part don't like either option.

Please leave it as it is.. why change it..

Sure some people are still repwhoring...
I for my part don't care that much about that.

 I like the system as it is.. and since 1000 points= 1 rep power... 

why care that much about some repwhores.. most users use the system in a "normal " way...



if u are so eager to eliminate problems u see with the rep....

then remove rep completely and we are over with it..

then there are no problems.


----------



## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Byakk? said:


> why is the thread not over yet? this should solve everything



Because as far as I can see that quote doesn't really exist, link me.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Mar 22, 2009)

No democracy? I think the point of this is that the mods are drastically changing the way rep works, and they want some cover. If people vote for it, they can respond, "well, you voted for it, so tough." 

Saying this isn't a democracy I think is missing the purpose of the thread. Still, the changes are logical.


----------



## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

OK, first of all I have to say I only make it up to page 6 before seeing so many blatantly _stupid_ and _ignorant_ posts I simply has to reply while I could still remember what I wanted to reply to them.

Question:


Yondaime said:


> Did you read the part about rep ranks above 100k being removed? When members have a reasonable rank to reach and they don't have to rep whore forever to get to it, then there will be fewer instances of it. What;s the use of mass pos repping if you can reach the rank quickly?


Answer: Because the rank itself generally means squat shit to them. It's all about the amount of small internet points.


Sunuvmann said:


> Lol. Hollie.


My thought exactly 

Question:


Yondaime said:


> What ever happend to a good old PM?


Answer: Conveying your feelings and expressing them properly in words is hard, and when your serious about something smileys just seem retarded and makes the entire text feel completely non serious. No matter how serious you actually are.

Thus simply giving the pricks who tick you off a little red square and a few negative points is much easier, satisfactory, and a must better substitute for the punch-them-in-the-face-for-being-an-idiot urge.

Also you spelled "happened" wrong.



Yondaime said:


> You are saying it's a symbol yet you approve of cheating in order to gain such an honor?


Wait, let me see if I got this right.

You get upset when you're "laws" (let's face it, rules technically are laws) are broken.

_Yet_ at the same time you actively promote an internet site which by itself actively promotes illegal action by reading/watching downloaded/online streamed material which illegally has been scanned/ripped so that you can read/watch it without having to pay for it?

I can't help but point and laugh at how silly that sounds.


Now my view on the whole thing? 

Ask yourselves, if something does something stupid/retarded/tick you off in real life. What do you do?

1; High five them, telling them they did a good job.

2; Do nothing.

3; Punch them in the face while telling them they are idiots and did it wrong.

Now change 1; into posing them. Leave 2; as it is/change "; to null repping. And change 3; into negging them.

Do you see what I'm getting at?


Also, now if you excuse me I'm going back to page 6 so I can continue finding more posts to reply to.


----------



## ~Flippy (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> If you feel strongly and comfortable enough to voice your opinion then negs shouldn't even matter, they aren't gonna change it.  And afterwhile people will get used to it.
> 
> 
> Those people also have an opinion.  One contrasting from yours.  That's a perfectly valid reason to neg.  Unless they do it repeatedly then it's abuse which you can report.
> ...



That's true but I remember when Orochimaru got locked for neg whoring.


----------



## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 22, 2009)

This is ruled by a bunch of comunist

I miss the old tiranny, self-gained success, elitism and knowledge of your position

Noone complained


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

Hollie said:


> Because as far as I can see that quote doesn't really exist, link me.



Hey guys

Wasn't the first time he (or others) said it either

And it's pure fact too can't u see?///


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

~Flippy said:


> That's true but I remember when Orochimaru got locked for neg whoring.



So what?  Orochimaru also once bribedd Tazmo with $100 to become a moderator of this site.  Using one person as an example isn't very representive.  There are quite a few who ask for negs, hell one even showed up in this thread *doing it in the open*.  Those people get sealed and life goes on, nothing wrong with the rep system for that other than them disobeying it.


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:
			
		

> Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.



Final post, cheers guys


----------



## Felt (Mar 22, 2009)

Tobirama said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Wasn't the first time he (or others) said it either
> 
> And it's pure fact too can't u see?///



Thanks


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Spanish Hoffkage said:


> This is ruled by a bunch of comunist
> 
> I miss the old tiranny, self-gained success, elitism and knowledge of your position
> 
> Noone complained



argh...times changed, unfortunently, it'll never be as good as when it used to be...argh


----------



## Ephemere (Mar 22, 2009)

Personally, i wouldnt like either, I always wanted to have it say "Resonate is part of your balanced breakfast" no matter how long it took. Knowing that I got there without any people possibly being able to bring it down makes me feel cheap, but if I had to go for one of the two it would have to just be removing neg rep. How am I supposed to tell some bitch that I think they're being stupid now if they have their wall locked? PM them? 

Im really fine with either, though, rep is just rep


----------



## Kuya (Mar 22, 2009)

keep everything the same


----------



## ~Flippy (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> So what?  Orochimaru also once bribedd Tazmo with $100 to become a moderator of this site.  Using one person as an example isn't very representive.  There are quite a few who ask for negs, hell one even showed up in this thread *doing it in the open*.  Those people get sealed and life goes on, nothing wrong with the rep system for that other than them disobeying it.



You're right, I shouldnt have been quick to point a finger on the masses. 

Proceed with your guys' bickering


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## Nedeti (Mar 22, 2009)

does this mean ill be a rep powerhouse since i joined back in 2005?


----------



## Sin (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy ended the thread a long time ago.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Mar 22, 2009)

Nedeti said:


> does this mean ill be a rep powerhouse since i joined back in 2005?



If you start posting more.


----------



## Red (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> This point I thoroughly disagree with.
> 
> Top 50 rep people from a few months ago (Reznor posted it b4)
> 
> ...


lol.

This list is bullshit. More than half of these guys are from the blender, the blender is known for circle jerking rep whores. Put two and two together. This isn't a coincidence. Some people contribute enough to warrant their standing but the vast majority you named got it through dick sucking, dick riding and by association/proximity.


----------



## Undertaker (Mar 22, 2009)

Removing negs is little bit less retarded

But I don`t see how one option exclude other so no vote


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 22, 2009)

This is like some crazy massive psychological experiment.  The fact members and mods are putting so much value into something with none is funny.  Whether you have positive or negative rep does not affect anything you do on this forum so what is the big deal.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> This is like some crazy massive psychological experiment.  The fact members and mods are putting so much value into something with none is funny.  Whether you have positive or negative rep does not affect anything you do on this forum so what is the big deal.



No, this is psychological



> The Gr8 Destroyer is Luminary



Sorry, you don't have enough rep for me to take you seriously, you're biased.


----------



## Kei (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't believe that we shouldn't get rid of the reping, neg or posi, some members acutally think its fun seeing their neg rep raise and posi rep raise also, Keep neg reping becuz its a person way to say I don't like wat u thinking and the reason why...Isn't that what we put the reason box for????

So I say niether will do me any good


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 22, 2009)

i agree on reping because of your stated opinion but its gotten to the point where some people i know get neg reped for their sig or ava. that is going to far.


----------



## Tieria Erde (Mar 22, 2009)

This calls for some advice dog. 

But seriously, leave it like that. There's no need to change anything just because people takes a neg rep in a forum or repwhoring as serious business. Is just a damn opinion and, even though some negs are stupid, a lot of people can use them to be better members and...


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Mar 22, 2009)

Have we really been having enough problems to the point which we _have_ to change it in this manner? The majority don't appear to have issues, sans one or two people who incur more negative rep than I've ever heard of one person acquiring. =/


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)




----------



## Cirus (Mar 22, 2009)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> This is like some crazy massive psychological experiment. The fact members and mods are putting so much value into something with none is funny. Whether you have positive or negative rep does not affect anything you do on this forum so what is the big deal.


 No.  It is something that needs to be dealt with and there is just no good way to deal with it.  Since that is the case the best choice of actions is the one to minimize the negative effects the new system can bring.  Each one has its bonuses that can be brought to the table.  Option 2 though has the most merrit and people can still get alot out of it.



Basically this has nothing to do with who belongs to what section and who thinks what about another.  This thread is about what needs to be done with a system that is not doing what it was intended for.


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

The Blender isn't a bunch circle-jerking repwhores

It's a bunch of superior and talented people who fucking utilize the rep function


You know what happens when I contribute in the HoU? I get a few replies saying "hahaha rotfl lmao gud post lolz"

You what happens when I contribute in the Blender? I get repped with "hahahaha rotfl lmao gud post lolz"

That's why the top 50, hell most of the top 100, are Blenderites


----------



## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 22, 2009)

In Soviet union breakfast eats you

Reminds me of certain forum


----------



## Kanai (Mar 22, 2009)

To be honest, I'd go with just removing the neg rep.
I have seen far too many unreasonable/random negs for my liking, especially negs for least favorite characters/pairings, etc.
EDIT: With a rep-only system, we can just rep posts we like/agree with. Those we disagree with, we can point out through replying and debating. Posts we dislike or just plain hate, we walk away (or click away) from them. End of story.


----------



## Deleted member 45015 (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm not really a fan of the Rep System at all....

Frankly though, being honest, it's because of the idiots who Neg Rep with things like "welp" and leave it at that. If the Neg Rep system was removed then it'd make things a bit better since Neg Repping is essentially just a cheeky way of Trolling someone with it being harder for them to respond.


----------



## Cax (Mar 22, 2009)

None of the two mentioned. There's no positive feedback without negative feedback.


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 22, 2009)

Rep should be completely removed, but since that's not gonna happen, I voted for removing negs.


----------



## HEATAQUA (Mar 22, 2009)

I voted for Removing Negs


----------



## Plot Hole (Mar 22, 2009)

IForgotMyEmail said:


> Hey guys rep me before your power becomes useless.


^ this is one of the reasons this thread was made.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Mar 22, 2009)

Cirus said:


> Basically this has nothing to do with who belongs to what section and who thinks what about another. This thread is about what needs to be done with a system that is not doing what it was intended for.


 
This entire issue is being treated with the importance of a full-scale crisis, which I do not see. And I also do not see how the system is not doing what it is intended to do. Or is it because that it does not function in the precise manner people desire it to? Nothing's perfect.

I do NOT agree with the idea that there should be no negative rep, but keeping positive. One without the other does not make much sense, or else how is there positive at all? It has no counterpart to show the negative side.


----------



## Hexa (Mar 22, 2009)

I guess it's important to stress that you're not _agreeing_ to a particular option by voting for it.  There's no reason to be petulant about picking one.  Whether we're going to take one of these actions is a totally different topic.


----------



## Somnus (Mar 22, 2009)

Removing neg rep.Because it promotes stupidity, at least until now all the neg rep I have came from retards that were angry because I didn't liked the character they worshiped.


----------



## Merodach (Mar 22, 2009)

lol If this is truly such a cumbersome issue, why not just remove rep altogether? Seriously, I don't think anyone's going to live or die because of this.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Mar 22, 2009)

I believe neg rep should be gone. It's really not necessary IMO.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> No, this is psychological
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, you don't have enough rep for me to take you seriously, you're biased.



:rofl thanks for the laugh


----------



## Cochise (Mar 22, 2009)

I have no problem with the current system. I think it has flaws, but works decently enough in the overall picture. If I had to pick one of the options, I would choose the removal of rep in deciding rep power.


----------



## kidloco (Mar 22, 2009)

WTF?!?!?!?!?1

FUCK NO!!!

STOP MESSING THE PLACE

that the worst idea, obligation, dictarorial and shit i have hear in my life!!!!!

please stop some mods think wiht you ass, they stink...

that just will get caos and misery wiht the the rest of teh members and gayness to the library members and library ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) mods!!!!

the rep not have fail in the whole time have be and now said have fail bcuase some minory (noobs and library ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) mod who cry for get neg because they post are soo lame and want everyone pray them and the true much lol them and ect and cry for that?

please stop that and let stay like always have be...

that change will make worst en vez de mejorarlo...

rebember not every change is good....

believe me, some country hav change and come worst to was before.... mostly if the change is not for teh poeple and obnly for a little group...


stop messing the forums... is making worst the place


----------



## Bill G (Mar 22, 2009)

Either option will create a wave of chaos through the entire forum. Every section will be endlessly trolled.


Either is fine. I think this forum could use a state of chaos. I voted for removing neg, as I believe it has a better chance of creating this chaos.


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

I love u aso much kidloco


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## beezley1981 (Mar 22, 2009)

Somnus said:


> Removing neg rep.Because it promotes stupidity, at least until now all the neg rep I have came from retards that were angry because I didn't liked the character they worshiped.



Removing neg repping would promote stupidity. Though I don't think I've ever been negged for a good reason, they've come far and few between. I've ONLY negged for good reasons. When I neg a person for an utterly stupid post, I know I'm not the only one who's done it, because their rep is disabled within 12 hours. People care about their rep and will keep in line (if only for a while) to protect it. It's fairly rare that I see the same person make two neg worthy post within days of each other, with the exception of someone trolling/flaming/ect... If neg is removed, what's to stop the dumb-asses and make them ponder their fuck up?


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Byakkö said:


> You know what happens when I contribute in the HoU? I get a few replies saying "hahaha rotfl lmao gud post lolz"
> 
> You what happens when I contribute in the Blender? I get repped with "hahahaha rotfl lmao gud post lolz"


Repwhoring and postwhoring... such a difference man... such a difference...


----------



## Raiden (Mar 22, 2009)

My fellow gentlemen in the Blender are going to hate me for saying this, but in all honesty, I would love if the current system was thrown out.Thing is that I don't think that the approach should be taken because the "lashback" is unpredictable.

Overall, I guess having negging removed would be okay. It's not a problem for members that are well known/well respected/have been around for a long time because people think twice before negging them for stupid reasons. It's always the smaller guy that suffers, and because of Staff's "NEGS? WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT" policy, these guys have no one to go to.


----------



## Fay (Mar 22, 2009)

> 2. The rep in rep power is removed and all ranks past 100K are removed with the rank at that point possibly being renamed. In order for it to balance the new power set.
> 
> What happens and how the staff will deal with it
> 
> ...



I have a question about this option:

Basically you say that rep power= postcount+joindate.
This means that reps don't raise or lower your rep power. But doesn't that mean that rep would actually be "null rep"?
If that is the case, then what is the logic behind having rep power?


----------



## Maiokhan (Mar 22, 2009)

What if we just give everyone the same rep power with equal power for both positive and negative rep? A relatively low number like 77 or 153? Would that help at all? Maybe that would achieve many of the aims of option 2 while not removing the higher ranks of rep that some people love so much.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Mar 22, 2009)

I stand for option 2 the most. I firmly believe if you are going to remove one part of the repping system you might as well remove the whole system entirely. Which is why I am against option 1.


----------



## Nick Soapdish (Mar 22, 2009)

I was going to say that I don't care that much, but I did care enough to read through the entire 25 pages (at the time I started this post) so obviously I care some. I don't plan to keep up now that I've said my piece.

I don't care particularly about rep.  I do think that it's nifty to get it, but it's even niftier to get props from a fellow forumite in the thread itself and publicly. It's pretty pointless in my opinion and I wouldn't cry if it went away. I'm ok with it sticking around because people seem to think that it's fun, but if it was up to me and my responsibility, I'd dump it because it's not worth the effort based on the number of complaints of rep abuse that I've seen alluded to. However, I haven't ever been a victim. I've only gotten one neg rep in about the last two years.

I'm against option one. Neg reps can be a problem, but removing them entirely doesn't seem to really address the issue. And they can be useful. I've neg repped four posts (maybe more) because the poster was being a real dink.

Option two sounds fine with me and I voted for it. Seems like it would address some of the complaints of elitism as well as deal with some of the complaints of rep abuse. Whether that rep abuse is rampant enough to limit the rep-titles of about 600 posters (and growing) is a question I can't answer. It doesn't effect me which makes me sort of impartial, but it won't ever *effect* me which makes me less so. Presumably the 600 members (and those that expect to get there) care on more of a personal level.



Sunuvmann said:


> My thoughts with this, 2 is a non option because its discrimination on so many levels, particularly to Fanclub members and those who post primarily in the CB and Blender.



I'm fine with option two and I post almost exclusively in the fan club section. Like I said above, I don't expect it to effect me at all. Maybe I just post in the wrong fan clubs. But I received my current rank maybe a year and a half ago. I figure that I'll hit Ascendant in around the end of 2010 if I'm still accruing rep at my current rate and still a member here.

Changing the rep to be based mostly on post count and join date won't have much effect on my rep power. (It's low and it'll just get lower.) And capping rep-titles at 100K is a level that I'm not sure that I'll make anyway. (I *expect* that I'll be around that long, but things change. Heck, the series could finally be over by then.)



MarryGoRound said:


> ITS OVER NF IS NOW MOTHER RUSSIA WHERE EVERYBODY HAS 100K !!
> 
> RED RED RED COMMUNISM FTW



Well, about 600 out of over 150,000 have 100K. The rest of us plebs are *sub*-Communist.


----------



## Smoke (Mar 22, 2009)

Honestly, I think we should keep things as they are.


It's true that the system isn't perfect but we've gone this far with it, so why not all the way into the sack?



I know tons of people say that the blender is a repcirckejerkfuckyouintheasswithmybiggreenrepcockmonster place, but like Byadicko said, people in there just know how to use the rep button.

I know that seems like a biased view, but it's true. The reason why other sections don't have as much rep is for 2 reasons.

1) Mostly new people (with low rep power) go to those sections because they want to talk about that topic.

2) No one agrees on anything. How can people rep other people that they don't agree with. 


who knows


----------



## neshru (Mar 22, 2009)

Removing neg reps sounds great, their only purpose is to be abused by haters anyway. Or at least remove the retarded rule that forbids revenge negging.



Ssj3_Goku said:


> I firmly believe if you are going to remove one part of the repping system you might as well remove the whole system entirely. Which is why I am against option 1.


I don't see how removing neg reps would make the system less valid than how it is right now, if anything it will improve it. The chance to give rep will be enough to make the good posters stand out, and haters and retarded fanboys that give you neg rep just because you insulted their favourite series will be no more.


----------



## Para (Mar 22, 2009)

Raiden said:


> My fellow gentlemen in the Blender are going to hate me for saying this, but in all honesty, I would love if the current system was thrown out.Thing is that I don't think that the approach should be taken because the "lashback" is unpredictable.
> 
> Overall, I guess having negging removed would be okay. It's not a problem for members that are well known/well respected/have been around for a long time because people think twice before negging them for stupid reasons. It's always the smaller guy that suffers, and because of Staff's "NEGS? WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT" policy, these guys have no one to go to.



Raiden, we both know that's bullshit. If anything, staff caring TOO MUCH about negging causes more bans and seals.


----------



## TekJounin (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't mind the current system but if I had to chose one of the suggestions, I'd go with #2.  And I do like having the person's name with the rep; I've gotten to know some very interesting people that way.


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 22, 2009)

The whole point of negging is make the smaller guy stop being a dumbass or gtfo


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Mar 22, 2009)

neshru said:


> Removing neg reps sounds great, their only purpose is to be abused by haters anyway. Or at least remove the retarded rule that forbids revenge negging.
> 
> 
> I don't see how removing neg reps would make the system less valid than how it is right now, if anything it will improve it. The chance to give rep will be enough to make the good posters stand out, and haters and retarded fanboys that give you neg rep just because you insulted their favourite series will be no more.



Lets put this in a different perspective. 

Lets say we remove negative feedback on a English paper but all we do is point out the good. Do you think your writing skills will improve? No they will not.  If your not going to pin point your mistakes on the paper then how can that person become a better writer?


Yes neg repping can be abused. Anything can be abused. However, to solve a problem by removing a feature that is part of a bigger system is not so smart imo. 

Also you have to consider that this bored is filled with younger individuals who are either mature or not mature. So your going to see immature behavior with any system you are in. Option 2 looks past the "just remove it" type of philosophy and tries for a deeper approach to the problem.


----------



## geG (Mar 22, 2009)

Red said:


> lol.
> 
> This list is bullshit. More than half of these guys are from the blender, the blender is known for circle jerking rep whores. Put two and two together. This isn't a coincidence. Some people contribute enough to warrant their standing but the vast majority you named got it through dick sucking, dick riding and by association/proximity.



Hey how about you actually read some other posts


----------



## neshru (Mar 22, 2009)

Ssj3_Goku said:


> Lets say we remove negative feedback on a English paper but all we do is point out the good. Do you think your writing skills will improve? No they will not.  If your not going to pin point your mistakes on the paper then how can that person become a better writer?


Honestly, I have no idea how neg reps would make my "writing skills" better. 

The people that neg rep me are:
- people that disagree with something I said.
You may disagree with me, but neg repping me is not gonna change my point of view.

- haters and angry fanboys
those guys neg rep me only because I insulted their favourite series, or retarded shit like that. Nothing to learn here.

- people that can't win an argument with words, so they resort to neg repping
Nothing to learn from these retards either.


----------



## Toby (Mar 22, 2009)

Fay said:


> I have a question about this option:
> 
> Basically you say that rep power= postcount+joindate.
> This means that reps don't raise or lower your rep power. But doesn't that mean that rep would actually be "null rep"?
> If that is the case, then what is the logic behind having rep power?



I think I have an answer, granted this is the simple math I do understand 

Granted rep power is the unknown x and joindate is given (i.e. it doesn't change EVER), then the only way you can increase x is by increasing your postcount.

I.E. the staff are trying to stimulate posting on the forum. I saw through the whole thing, which is why I didn't vote. 

But seriously, I think it is because they want your rep to be based on your posts. This should theoretically divert attention to their content too, if I am not much mistaken.


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Mar 22, 2009)

Wait until you see what I say next.  It's gonna be quoted _everywhere_.


----------



## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Rep power based on number of posts = post whoring.

How the hell is that an improvement?


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Mar 22, 2009)

neshru said:


> Honestly, I have no idea how neg rep will make my "writing skills" better.
> 
> The people that neg rep me are:
> - people that disagree with something I said.
> ...



Please read my full post. I was not pointing out that your "writing" skills will be better. 

Some of the neg reps I got did bring me to realize that my thought process is different from other individuals. 

Yes their are people who neg rep for just the sake of doing it. But that does not give anyone the reason to remove the feature completely. I can simply say we should remove vendy machines because a-lot of people do not recyle cans and that is hurting our environment. 

Lets say we do remove it, I can think of a few things that might happen.

1. More flaming to other individuals via post form.
2. Trolling will become more apparent than usual. 
3. People will still abuse the "Green" rep system if not abuse it more.


There are other things to think of as well. I think option two is a more sound approach for a variety of reasons. Which I cannot explain atm because I have to head back to my apartment. I will end on this note. 


*People need to think beyond just "removing" it philosophy. Just removing something does not mean that type of behavior will go away. Your simply just shifting it elsewhere. *


----------



## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Ok, I've found enough posts for a second mass reply.



Hiroshi said:


> Larger avies make others feel inferior? Coloured names are supposed to help you guys distinguish staff.


1; Yes. 2; Sure, but right now it's a bloody mess. If you want to be something simple to help people then bloody keep it simple. One single color for all staff people.

To bland/not personal for you? Well shit, what about us then?


Hiroshi said:


> When Library threads are biased upon the amount of rep a user has then yeah Elitism is a huge issue. When people judge others and themselves based solely on rep, yes elitism is an issue.


Will you regard a bum covered in filth and a well kept man in a clean and well kept tuxedo the same?

Well shit, elitism exists in real life as well.


Hiroshi said:


> I'm sorry I wasn't talking about Hollie. I like Hollie too.


Then why use her as a prime example of a rep-whore?


Hiroshi said:


> There are definitely users who earn it legitimately. I'm not saying that everyone with high rep is a whorer - I'm just saying that a number are. And there will be some users caught in this cross-fire. But not as many who will be rightly justiced from this.


1; True. 2; What, that's pretty much what you've just done. 3; _Some_? I disagree.



Harley said:


> What makes it entertaining?


What makes football entertaining? What makes hockey entertaining? What makes anything at all entertaining?

Being able to or seeing someone/something accomplish something. That's what.

Seeing those pesky little numbers rise. It doesn't matter if you say you care or not. Somewhere deep down there you will feel happy because you've managed to get people to appreciate you, and thus you have accomplished something.



Harley said:


> Ban or warning?


Only works when an actual rule has been violated. Unfortunately there's no rule prohibiting stupidity.



Mider T said:


> Another thing.  Earlier in the thread you said that if the 2nd option were to come, rep threads would be allowed back into the chatterbox and blender.  In the previous ones rep numbers were easily visible, wouldn't that just defeat the purpose?


Excellent point.



Hiroshi said:


> I said before we can never get rid of elitism, trolling, flaming, etc. We can only hope to reduce it.


If you actually know what you're doing you CAN virtually stop it.



Harley said:


> You don't need power to punish people because we have moderators to do that.


Again, only works when an actual rule has been violated. Stupidity is still not prohibited.



Hiroshi said:


> A newer/low-repped member being neg repped from a high repped established member is a great example.
> 
> Post whorers are more easily identified.
> 
> ...


"A newer/low-repped member being neg repped from a high repped established member is a great example." Me in a nutshell. Get over it already. It's not a great example. Because you already have the effective can't neg the same post twice/not rep the same guy within 24h+until you've repped like 8-10 other people effectively making it more then 24 hours. At which point most people will have forgot about it unless the negged person in question makes an active choice to keep them reminded of it.

"Post whorers are more easily identified. Garbage posters will be forum-wide banned."
Now this is just silly. Do you really think people will continue making simple "oh hai gaiz" posts when they post-whore if this becomes the de-facto way of increasing the rep-power? Obviously not! People adapt. Human-behavior 101. Seriously.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 22, 2009)

people do abuse rep just because you say you like something or you don't. if you do something bad it should be reporting quality. most neg rep comes from stupid stuff.


----------



## geG (Mar 22, 2009)

lol ejaculation storm abusing negs


----------



## NECROFANTASIA (Mar 22, 2009)

Both ideas are bad.

For one, if rep is based entirely on joindate/postcount, then those of us who post in sections where posts don't add to postcount are basically hosed. A lot of extremely active members end up having almost no rep power. There's also the fact that any retard can make it to 100k rep. I made it to 100k rep and I haven't contributed a single useful thing in my entire career. Seriously. 

As for neg reps, if you take them away then you basically take away any consequences for people who are gibbering tards who happen to stay within the forum rules. You'll have perhaps a bit less bullying and flame wars and in exchange you'll have a massive wave of total fucking morons taking over. 

If you absolutely must go for one of these two, go for the one where you cap rep ranks at 100k. But I wouldn't recommend either one, to be honest.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Negging people because their stupid is quite hilarious your actually basking yourself as intelligent.


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## Toby (Mar 22, 2009)

Adonis said:


> Rep power based on number of posts = post whoring.
> 
> How the hell is that an improvement?



Oh shi

We didn't see that one coming. See, the mods are even worse at math than me. 

But see, this makes us more alert about spam. So everybody wins, because spam has absolutely no value whatsoever.


----------



## neshru (Mar 22, 2009)

Ssj3_Goku said:


> Lets say we do remove it, I can think of a few things that might happen.
> 
> 1. More flaming to other individuals via post form.
> 2. Trolling will become more apparent than usual.
> 3. People will still abuse the "Green" rep system if not abuse it more.


That may happen, but you don't know until you try. Personally, I think the advantages of removing neg reps would outweigh the disadvantages by far.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Merlin said:


> Oh shi
> 
> We didn't see that one coming. See, the mods are even worse at math than me.
> 
> But see, this makes us more alert about spam. So everybody wins, because spam has absolutely no value whatsoever.



That is true it is not like mods aren't capable of deleting spam. Whenever I see spam or some other garbage it is deleted quite quickly.

People saying mods can't handle punishing stupidity, spam and garbage just makes mods wanna go through with this even more. Just because your basically says mods can't handle anything on these forums with our good ol members negging before they ban or warn someone. Also if someone is staying within the rules and being stupid how is that worth a neg? Just avoid them? Put them on your ignore list and you won't have to read their stupidity.


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## Naruto (Mar 22, 2009)

All neg rep causes is drama. People can use positive rep to approve of something, and leave what they don't like alone, or leave it to posts.

Although I don't understand why you don't have a third option in that poll for "leaving it as it is".

While I personally don't care for negs (I certainly don't like getting them and I can totally live without giving them), I would be happier knowing we get a real choice in the matter.


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

neshru said:


> That may happen, but you don't know until you try. Personally, I think the advantages of removing neg reps would outweigh the disadvantages by far.



argh...care to expand on that...argh?


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Mar 22, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> people do abuse rep *just because you say you like something or you don't.* if you do something bad it should be reporting quality. most neg rep comes from stupid stuff.


 
And in RL, people may call you the same names upon disagreement. So we should make it "equal", which really seems to be favouring those who shed tears when they open their CP and find red? RL isn't perfect, the internet isn't perfect, and everywhere, people have opinions. 

I mean really, _150,000+ members_ and people have qualms when others don't like their ideas or disagree? It is expected.

Edit:  If we are contemplating removing negative reps, there is no point in the positive ones. Just remove the entire system, then.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

People seem to think this forum is only alive because of rep. Which just shows how much some people are attached to a green bar.


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## Emasculation Storm (Mar 22, 2009)

Geg said:


> lol ejaculation storm abusing negs



Odd that you should accuse me of that, considering the little fiasco where you negged me for photoshopping an image with Sharingan eyes, and then called upon 5 of your buddies to neg me for it too.

But hey, given the thread we're posting in, at least I know you won't revenge neg me this time.


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## NECROFANTASIA (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Negging people because their stupid is quite hilarious your actually basking yourself as intelligent.



Is this supposed to be English?


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> People seem to think this forum is only alive because of rep. Which just shows how much some people are attached to a green bar.


 
As you turn your bar suddenly turns green.


Smooth.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> Odd that you should accuse me of that, considering the little fiasco where you negged me for photoshopping an image with Sharingan eyes, and then called upon 5 of your buddies to neg me for it too.



Yes, rep gangs seem to think they own the forums. 



Miss Pulchritudinous said:


> As you turn your bar suddenly turns green.
> 
> 
> Smooth.



I was waiting for someone to say that, but that was quick. 

Oh this is funny I'm getting negged right now by everyone who doesn't want the rep system to get removed.

Hey mods please lock the thread, cause obviously if your trying to discuss the rep whores will bite your dick off.


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

It looks like I'm going to need to explain a few things....

I hope my "will rape for food" avy keeps your attention enough to at least brace for this tl;dr... 

We specifically said that no matter what you voted for, it didn't necessarily mean that we were going to perform that action.  

We could do option one (though I personally dislike this one)
We could do option two (which makes a bit more sense to me, but hey...I'd rather follow Mad Stan's philosophy and blow the whole thing up..or just stop caring about it myself).
We could make it a free-for-all. (S_S would love this)
We could keep it as is. (which we knew most of you would vote for anyway thus why it wasn't even a poll option)
We could even change the rules around!

Staff members believe the system is flawed due to the increasing amount of rep complaints and abuses we've been having to look into...so we wanted a solution for the question "how do we make the rep system less flawed?"

Staff members inherently believe that "repwhoring is bad" because it defaces what "rep" was originally intended to do...feedback and how contributive a member is. For some reason we wish to get rep to fairly show who is a contributive member and who is just a basic spammer and troll 

Some staff members believe that repwhoring is cheating a system (that is quite arbitrary anyway) due to a lack of feasible contributions. 

Some staff members are thinking for the little guy, yet think the reason why people whore is to neg people with a bigger neg PUNCH (which isn't necessarily true...whoring happens to stroke egos...but stroking egos does give some of you guys too much power to ruin a newbies day and thus come whining to us and then we (the smods and admins) go looking into the comment left and only find an image of yamato wood or a big red cock rooster which ends up getting you and your friends rep sealed and then we get a bitchfest from both sides...just really puts us off and we get more complaints than most people in this thread probably think we get). 

Don't deny it...gang negs on noobies and other members have been done for ridiculous reasons. It certainly doesn't help seeing the "order of the red cock", or members of GB and UG, etc. go through this...nor is it "fun" having to deal with the latest victim of a mass neg from a group formed by members with the largest rep powers who may or may not have gotten their reps from non-contributive manners (and no "being inherently awesome" doesn't count )

Some staff members are like Spy Smasher and only want to see the world burn (ha I knew I'd get a TDK reference in here somewhere)

Also, we should probably mention that removing the ranks after 500k, instead of 100k, has been discussed. We'd just change the last rank to "member has won the game CONGRATS!" The reason why impossible ranks are even being considered for removal is because they are impossible to obtain. duh.

Giving people a goal is great...but even some goals are completely unrealistic. Make it possible for anyone to win the rep game. When you've won the rep game, it doesn't necessarily mean you can't find a new game to play amirite? So we change the last rank to you "winning" at some contest for internet numbers and then you go off and want to win at another game like the contests and being the most awesome member ever award. Or make a new game amongst your friends on who can reach the next level of 100k and force your friends to make a set for you about how you won amongst them  (since we'd be removing the whoring rules with option 2 so we wouldn't really care about your new game as long as comments didn't derail a thread)

Back to the point I guess...We wanted to see what you guys thought between the two most "extreme" solutions of the question "how do we make the rep system less flawed" 

In no way does this mean we'll actually remove negs or remove "reputation" from the rep power equation.  

And hey...most of all...you guys can use this as a platform as to how you'd think the rep system could be better (of course let's be feasible here...you'll need to come up with something we can implement without the help of M.Bison and Tazmoholic)...so I guess changing up the rules 

Sure this isn't a democracy, but we like to take serious suggestions seriously 

So if you guys have some intuitive suggestions on how you'd think the rep system could be better, now would be a good time to bring up ideas.

(and god damn it if this appears as the last post in the thread or if my last point about you guys giving your input on how to make the rep system better is ignored, I'm fucking locking this thread so you guys are forced to read it *lol counter-intuitive FTL*).


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## Toby (Mar 22, 2009)

Naruto said:


> All neg rep causes is drama. People can use positive rep to approve of something, and leave what they don't like alone, or leave it to posts.
> 
> Although I don't understand why you don't have a third option in that poll for "leaving it as it is".
> 
> While I personally don't care for negs (I certainly don't like getting them and I can totally live without giving them), I would be happier knowing we get a real choice in the matter.



Hah! Now that the main character of the anime this forum is based upon has posted you all have to fall into line.

Also, posts allow for plenty of drama in and of themselves, as we can all witness throughout this thread. But yeah, cutting down the drama sure does make modding easier. And incredible enough, as a consequence, that might make the forum more enjoyable for the victims. Oh joy. Hope and Change.


----------



## gabzilla (Mar 22, 2009)

Neither sounds good, tbh.

*gets popcorn*


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Well, if staff left rep totally the way it is but made it so that rep points had nothing to do with rep power, that might work.

Rep power is only inflated when it comes to rep points, not join date or even post count. I mean honestly it takes 50,000 posts to have 1k rep power from posts. That's a lot of posts. I don't think anyone will be able to spam to 50k. They'd burn out before they get there or the mods would catch onto their spamming long before that. I mean only one person on the board even has the amount of posts needed to rep for 1k with pure post count. It goes to show that it's something that's really hard to achieve.

And honestly, yeah, my post count is high, but my post count only gives me a bit over 300 points in rep power and my join date gives me, I dunno, 170 or something maybe?

My rep is over 820k so that is where a lot of my rep power comes from to so yeah, I would lose a lot too if it was removed but overall on the board rep is the most inflated form of altering power.

I mean I don't mind if things are just left the way they are either. I am just putting this out there.


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## NECROFANTASIA (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> <snip>



Hm.

What are your thoughts on giving everyone an equal rep power? That way a total noob would have as much influence on the rep of others as an old respected member. This would make repwhoring less of a problem in your eyes (since people couldn't repwhore to give themselves neg power) but would also prevent the absurd amounts of postwhoring that would come from having a post/joindate based system. 

Make it, say, 300 points per person. 150 for negs. Or is that too low? Maybe 500 per person?


----------



## Red (Mar 22, 2009)

Byakk? said:


> The Blender isn't a bunch circle-jerking repwhores
> 
> It's a bunch of superior and talented people who fucking utilize the rep function
> 
> ...


This. Fucking this. Everybody take note.


----------



## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

Triste Morningstar said:


> Hm.
> 
> What are your thoughts on giving everyone an equal rep power? That way a total noob would have as much influence on the rep of others as an old respected member. This would make repwhoring less of a problem in your eyes (since people couldn't repwhore to give themselves neg power) but would also prevent the absurd amounts of postwhoring that would come from having a post/joindate based system.
> 
> Make it, say, 300 points per person. 150 for negs. Or is that too low? Maybe 500 per person?



it's worth considering...but is it actually possible w/out having to somehow get a hold of mbxx or tazmo?  



> This. Fucking this. Everybody take note.



I got a lot of my early rep from HofU, so suck it.

but seriously, let's try and not focus this into a "vs blender" thread. -___-


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Mar 22, 2009)

Well not sure if my points have been seen by the staff but I hope they did.




neshru said:


> That may happen, but you don't know until you try. Personally, I think the advantages of removing neg reps would outweigh the disadvantages by far.




Do not know until you try? Well honestly it just takes some Intelligence to really see. The reasoning behind "don't know until you try" theory is seriously flawed and is not really a good argument at all. The disadvantages really are coming from people who really care about rep points. This numerical number somehow gets people thinking that they are superior / great or something along those lines. Removing neg rep means that all it can do is go up and that helps the people who really enjoy high numbers. *So, with this logic in place that would mean we should remove positive rep as well since that gets abused just as much as neg repping.  Meaning option 1 is a poor illogical choice.*


I will comment on taxman's post at a later time.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Removing it sounds like the best idea. Don't we have a comment page? If people wanna show you that your a good posters they can go on your page and post. If your so worried about having other people notice you as a good contribute they can just check your personal page for comments. If someone is a bad poster they will be seen as a bad posters the moment they post regardless of their rep and if someone is a good poster you should be able to notice the moment you read one of their posts. 

Yes I agree it is nice to have pos rep from people that leave nice comments but all the negs I have gotten are just for disagreeing and not actually my posts being garbage. I mean I've gotten like three negs in a matter of 5 minutes just now for posting in here. What are these guys trying to prove? They are punishing me for what being stupid because my opinion is different? They wouldn't dare neg a mod though because they care way to much about their rep bars. It is just an obvious tool for power dissing others for the stupidest reasons. It is like going up to someone on the street and saying that look like a "fucking retard" yes you can do it in real life. Should you?


----------



## NECROFANTASIA (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> it's worth considering...but is it actually possible w/out having to somehow get a hold of mbxx or tazmo?



Well, isn't that true of all rep system changes?

I'm just not sure how people would react to this. I mean, those who do have a lot of rep power right now (through whatever means) might not appreciate the motion.


----------



## vervex (Mar 22, 2009)

Keeping the rep like it is now, or removing neg reps are the two options I'd be okay with.


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 22, 2009)

How about getting rid of the numbers, keeping the green and red for feedback purposes (single worthwhile aspect of rep)?


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

> Well, isn't that true of all rep system changes?


not really.

I, as an admin, can effectively turn off people's abilities to neg rep based on what user group they are in (so all registered users wouldn't be able to give negs...thus why option one has been presented)

Goobs can actually mess with the rep formula...so we can remove the power that reputation has on rep altering power...thus option two is offered.

The entire staff can have an active discussion on rule changes

So we can do stuff w/out the need for Tazmo or Mbxx



> I'm just not sure how people would react to this. I mean, those who do have a lot of rep power right now (through whatever means) might not appreciate the motion.



thus the problem that really any suggestion brought forth in this thread has run into..xDDD


----------



## The Space Cowboy (Mar 22, 2009)

Keep the neg reps, or remove the system entirely.  Better yet, make it an opt-in thing.  You can choose whether or not to participate when you join.


----------



## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Honestly if the option of removing the rep system isn't possible. Making everyone have the same rep power sounds fair how much fairer can you get than that? Everyone is equal in terms of rep power and neg power. That means new people or people who don't quite go into the more rep active sections are just as valuable rep wise as those guys in Blender or in FCs.


----------



## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Malmsey said:


> I think you've been in the Blender too long, friend.


As far as I've seen TNP spends _way_ more time in the Library and FCs then in the Blender.



neshru said:


> Honestly, I have no idea how neg reps would make my "writing skills" better.
> 
> The people that neg rep me are:
> - people that disagree with something I said.
> ...


1; and 2; however are exactly what they're entitled to do as the rules say that you can neg someone if you disagree with their post. 3; While still actually doing nothing wrong still deserve a punch to the face.


Adonis said:


> Anyone pathetic enough to set up an elaborate chain of connections to win internet points deserves the little validation they get from it.
> 
> As someone who doesn't have connections, it's easier to post multiple one sentence posts than it is to get other people to massively rep you (especially with the cool-off period between reps.)
> 
> ...


Shit, I can't remember what I wanted to reply to this posts so whatever.


Malmsey said:


> Most of those people are from the Blender.


So what? It's human nature to be drawn towards people with similar natures. 


Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Was there ANYONE on that list who wasn't either a mod or a Blenderite? :S


A few, and even then most of the "Blenderites" on that list still posts _ALOT_ in others forums as well.


Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> No but it is weird that 95% of people with high rep post in the same section isn't it? :S A section that is considered the septic tank of NF where more trolling and flaming happens. I mean, that's weird isn't it?
> 
> I'm not saying everyone in there is like that though. Just overall more of that stuff goes on there. And overall the majority of crap I get on NF comes from there for some reason even though I don't post there and generally ignore things dealing with that place. For the most part I don't even talk about them. And honestly I would like to be able to get along better with some of those people and I'm not a hateful person so I'd be willing to change my opinions. It's just that they are unwilling to like me at all it seems.
> 
> I mean they also post creative stuff sometimes and what not that's actually funny.....but there is also a lot of trolling.


1; No it's not, similar people are drawn towards similar people. It's called human nature. 2; There's *far* more trolling in Library. And far more flaming in Battledome.


Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Yep and most people are afraid to ever say anything negative about the Blender.
> 
> Honestly if you really want to know, I heard it from a mod.


People being afraid of saying something negative about the Blender? Fucking hell, about 90% of the stuff posted these past months _in the Blender itself_ was about how shitty it had become.

Also just because a mod say something it doesn't mean it's true.


Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> It's there so that people don't flame as much in other parts of NF.


Except flaming is *strictly forbidden* in there. The most stuff that happens are shitty trash-talking but hardly what I personally see as flaming.



Roka said:


> I guess you've never been to the Library


True that 



Para said:


> That's the thing; there isn't one. People think Blenderites are in some huge repcircle when the fact is, repcircles get spotted and dealt with quickly by the staff (Final Villain, Hachimata, etc). The fact is, as I said earlier, a lot of staff rep the Blenderites themselves for posting funny and creative threads on a regular basis and the few staff that are apparently calling us a cesspool to KY must not even take a look into the forum to see that it isn't as bad as everyone says it is.
> 
> Blender respects their mods more than other sections do, too; we love Iria and Zaru and Blind Itachi (lol... though we may not show it). We loved Robotkiller and Shroomsday and Suzuhiko. Mods that visit us like Jetstorm and Kira Yamato and Splintered and Rhaella... the list goes on. Mods in Konoha Library get shat on by their members and harrassed and accused of bias and threads are made for their demotion... and the BLENDER are meant to be the assholes? Give me a break.


Superb. See people, it's intellectual and good posts like this that get's rep. And guess what, there's _alot_ of posts like these in the Blender.


----------



## Robin (Mar 22, 2009)

keep the negs

how about significantly reducing rep in rep power for 100k+ but not eliminating it completely? Or just reduce the weight of rep in rep power calculation overall.


man 30 pages in a few hours


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## geG (Mar 22, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> Odd that you should accuse me of that, considering the little fiasco where you negged me for photoshopping an image with Sharingan eyes, and then called upon 5 of your buddies to neg me for it too.



More like I posted a link and they all decided to neg you of their own free will  I can't be held accountable for the actions of others


----------



## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Triste Morningstar said:


> Hm.
> 
> What are your thoughts on giving everyone an equal rep power? That way a total noob would have as much influence on the rep of others as an old respected member. This would make repwhoring less of a problem in your eyes (since people couldn't repwhore to give themselves neg power) but would also prevent the absurd amounts of postwhoring that would come from having a post/joindate based system.
> 
> Make it, say, 300 points per person. 150 for negs. Or is that too low? Maybe 500 per person?



That's a nice thought although new people having that kind of power might not always be the best idea because new people in some ways are more likely to abuse it since a lot of them don't read the rules when they join this place. That's one reason why new people don't have much power, because they are more likely to abuse it due to not knowing the rules.

I know that if they break the rules that means they should just be dealt with but I think it could potentially be a huge hassle.


----------



## Croagunk (Mar 22, 2009)

This is the first forum I've been to where rep has been this big of a fucking deal, and honestly, it amuses me to no end. Comedy gold in this thread.

"OUR REP SYSTEM, GONE?! COMMUNISTS"


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## ~Greed~ (Mar 22, 2009)

Triste Morningstar said:


> Hm.
> 
> What are your thoughts on giving everyone an equal rep power? That way a total noob would have as much influence on the rep of others as an old respected member. This would make repwhoring less of a problem in your eyes (since people couldn't repwhore to give themselves neg power) but would also prevent the absurd amounts of postwhoring that would come from having a post/joindate based system.
> 
> Make it, say, 300 points per person. 150 for negs. Or is that too low? Maybe 500 per person?



I like this idea  , Ill vote for this.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

That's what it's sounding like here "Hey, let's everybody share the same rep power, it may not be interesting, but we'll all be equal!  Yay!"


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## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Dr.Majestic said:


> surely removing it infringes some notions of freedom of speech...





Miss Fortune said:


> I mean, you have to have the freedom to express what you think!



There's a big flaw with these two posts.

And that is: "Posting is a privilege not a right. Those who abuse the privilege will find that privilege revoked. You aren't required to like the rules, just follow them."

To quote a friend of mine on another site.


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## Emasculation Storm (Mar 22, 2009)

Geg said:


> More like I posted a link and they all decided to neg you of their own free will  I can't be held accountable for the actions of others



Or you gave them the link and told them to neg me.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Mider T said:


> That's what it's sounding like here "Hey, let's everybody share the same rep power, it may not be interesting, but we'll all be equal!  Yay!"



Do you really enjoy rep power that much?

This is what I find the biggest problem with the system. Is people like you find rep way too amusing. It isn't there for entertainment, that isn't the point of rep and you can ask any moderator this.


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

reposting because I felt like it *fuck new pages*



Taxman said:


> It looks like I'm going to need to explain a few things....
> 
> I hope my "will rape for food" avy keeps your attention enough to at least brace for this tl;dr...
> 
> ...


----------



## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Do you really enjoy rep power that much?
> 
> This is what I find the biggest problem with the system. Is people like you find rep way too amusing. It isn't there for entertainment, that isn't the point of rep and you can ask any moderator this.



Oh yeah, it's just oodles and oodles of fun.

I think we've identified your problem, you seem to have been on the butthurt end of stupid negs and want rep socialism.  This rep system (which has been redone) is one of things that make this site unique, it's fine the way it is and is an enjoyable little quirk I play with when I come here.

According to you, rep = srs bznz.


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## Smoke (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't really care what you guys end up doing, but getting rid of negs is pointless. 


What have we learned from rl, anime and movies? That there MUST be balance between good and bad. Sure it seems simple enough to remove the bad, but it's not.

Let's look at real life. We have ugly people and pretty people. Without the ugly people there to show us how ugly, people can really get, we wouldn't be able to appreciate the pretty people. It's the same way with negs and possssss. 

I get negs too but I don't let that discourage me. On the contrary, I look at that red mark as a sign that I did something wrong. So after revenge negging the person, I make sure to change myself for the better:ho


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman, my suggestion is lets focus on the rep system actually being there for what is made for repping good posts and negging bad posts. Not negging and repping people because its entertaining.



> According to you, rep = srs bznz.



No, according to you rep = srs bznz. You care way too much about having rep power in the first place.


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## Tleilaxu (Mar 22, 2009)

If you had to change anything the onlything I would suggest is to re allow revenge repping(As sometimes the neg repper real DOES deserve it) or removing negs all together....


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## Spy_Smasher (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman, I prefer to think of my rep plan as "Rep Deregulation," not "Burning Down the Forums." I mean, look at the positive effect deregulation has had on the banking industry.

That's what I'm shooting for.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Taxman, my suggestion is lets focus on the rep system actually being there for what is made for repping good posts and negging bad posts. Not negging and repping people because its entertaining.
> 
> 
> 
> No, according to you rep = srs bznz. You care way too much about having rep power in the first place.



The rep system _is_ focused on that, however most of the time it happens to be amusing too.  Abuse is punished which is why there's no problem.

No, but being lax about everything is retarded, if you look at the comments in here people from all walks of rep agree with me.


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## EvilMoogle (Mar 22, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> Taxman, I prefer to think of my rep plan as "Rep Deregulation," not "Burning Down the Forums." I mean, look at the positive efect deregulation has had on the banking industry.
> 
> That's what I'm shooting for.



Maybe what we need is a "Rep Bailout" followed quickly by "Rep Mass Inflation"

Give everyone 10000000 rep!

No, wait, give the top 5% 10000000 rep, it'll trickle-down to the masses this way!


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## Senbonzakura (Mar 22, 2009)

people should only be allowed to neg rep if the person broke a rule. that would solve most problems about bed rep.


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

Tleilaxu said:


> If you had to change anything the onlything I would suggest is to re allow revenge repping(As sometimes the neg repper real DOES deserve it) or removing negs all together....



well honestly, some of us think that the revenge negging rule has been silly ever since we allowed you guys to see who repped you.  Though, if a member does neg you for some stupid reason, and you neg them back and they come whining to us about how you revenge negged even though they practically baited you to do it...we really don't enforce the "revenge neg" rule in those cases.

Certainly doesn't help when the message left after you rep someone is around the lines of "Hopefully, you get repped too"



Spy_Smasher said:


> Taxman, I prefer to think of my rep plan as "Rep Deregulation," not "Burning Down the Forums." I mean, look at the positive efect deregulation has had on the banking industry.
> 
> That's what I'm shooting for.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

> The rep system is focused on that, however most of the time it happens to be amusing too. Abuse is punished which is why there's no problem.



Oh and how have my posts been bad? I've gotten several negs in here for just posting. If I get negs for just posting my opinion why don't I just troll? Obviously the negging bad posts part is flawed since people consider "bad" if you disagree with them. 



> No, but being lax about everything is retarded, if you look at the comments in here people from all walks of rep agree with me.



Not everyone here agrees with you...


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## Maiokhan (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Taxman, my suggestion is lets focus on the rep system actually being there for what is made for repping good posts and negging bad posts. Not negging and repping people because its entertaining.
> 
> 
> 
> No, according to you rep = srs bznz. You care way too much about having rep power in the first place.



I gotta agree with this guy. I see no reason for people to have different levels of rep power other than for some "oldie" or repwhore with a stick their ass abusing newbies and others through rep for no reason whatsoever.


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## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> well honestly, some of us think that the revenge negging rule has been silly ever since we allowed you guys to see who repped you.  Though, if a member does neg you for some stupid reason, and you neg them back and they come whining to us about how you revenge negged even though they practically baited you to do it...we really don't enforce the "revenge neg" rule in those cases.
> 
> Certainly doesn't help when the message left after you rep someone is around the lines of "Hopefully, you get repped too"



So it's alright if I revenge-revenge-neg this guy who revenge-negged me the other day and then proceeded to post an insulting post where he insulted me?

Sweet


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## Smoke (Mar 22, 2009)

We should add the "accept" function to the rep system.

"Dear Smoke, XXX has negged you for xxx reason,


[]Accept neg
[]Do not accept neg

IF the person feels that the neg is unfair, then they can decline it and if they feel it i just, then bring it


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## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Maiokhan said:


> I gotta agree with this guy. I see no reason for people to have different levels of rep power other than for some "oldie" or repwhore with a stick their ass abusing newbies and others through rep for no reason whatsoever.



Seriously. Can't people read the rules anymore? What the hell have happened to good old and proper reading comprehension?

The rules *quite* clearly state that you can't randomly neg people just for the sake of it.

And if it happens, you're supposed to report it if it's such a big problem.

So what the heck can't you people just report it instead of whining about it?


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## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> No, according to you rep = srs bznz. You care way too much about having rep power in the first place.



And you care way too much that he has it, so what's your point?

All of you are talking about how people who get elitist over rep are pathetic and it's not important, which is true, yet are whining because you get negged by immature pissants. Hypocrisy.

Rep doesn't matter but we should rework it, anyway?

All I see is people crying because their E-dick isn't as long as other posters and they feel slighted.

There's no way rep is going to ever be perfectly reflective of quality posting. Just move on and deal with it. If you're mature enough to know rep doesn't actually mean anything, you ought to be mature enough to ignore those who flash it.


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> well honestly, some of us think that the revenge negging rule has been silly ever since we allowed you guys to see who repped you.  Though, if a member does neg you for some stupid reason, and you neg them back and they come whining to us about how you revenge negged even though they practically baited you to do it...we really don't enforce the "revenge neg" rule in those cases.
> 
> Certainly doesn't help when the message left after you rep someone is around the lines of "Hopefully, you get repped too"



What if someone negs you and then insults you a few posts later because they know that you can't neg them for it? -_-


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> What if someone negs you and then insults you a few posts later because they know that you can't neg them for it? -_-



argh...you report them...argh


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

Springlake said:


> So it's alright if I revenge-revenge-neg this guy who revenge-negged me the other day and then proceeded to post an insulting post where he insulted me?
> 
> Sweet



well now you're just being ridiculous...we'd most likely will hit you both in the face with a newspaper and say "NO"...



Ark 14.0 said:


> argh...you report them...argh



another point for the pirate.


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## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Question for Taxman/random Admin.

Is it possible to fix rep-power to be generated from the amount of rep-pages?


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Oh and how have my posts been bad? I've gotten several negs in here for just posting. If I get negs for just posting my opinion why don't I just troll? Obviously the negging bad posts part is flawed since people consider "bad" if you disagree with them.



Obviously you still don't understand the reasons for negs, disagreeing with points is one of them.  You're just bitching.



> Not everyone here agrees with you...



Safe to say the majority.


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## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> well now you're just being ridiculous...we'd most likely will hit you both in the face with a newspaper and say "NO"...



I can live with that.

Point of note; my initial neg of the guy was legitimate as he was name-calling a friend of mine.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> What if someone negs you and then insults you a few posts later because they know that you can't neg them for it? -_-



They'd still be flaming, and that's alot of work for not alot of reason.


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> another point for the pirate.



argh...would that tecnicly make me Ark 15.0...argh?


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

Springlake said:


> Question for Taxman/random Admin.
> 
> Is it possible to fix rep-power to be generated from the amount of rep-pages?



so you're asking is it possible for the number of pages of reps/rep comments to be a part of the rep altering power formula? 

I don't think so.  If Gooba sees your question, he'd be most capable of answering you.


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## Harley (Mar 22, 2009)

> The rules quite clearly state that you can't randomly neg people just for the sake of it.



Obviously people do. All you gotta do is put "I don't like your post" in the neg and it is justified.



> And you care way too much that he has it, so what's your point?



Well regardless of me caring or not, its obvious someone cares too much about their power.


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## santanico (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't really care for the rep system, but I say you leave it as is, or remove it completely. The ranks, removed or not I don't mind, once again.


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## Intus Legere (Mar 22, 2009)

How about the "status quo" option?


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> so you're asking is it possible for the number of pages of reps/rep comments to be a part of the rep altering power formula?
> 
> I don't think so.  If Gooba sees your question, he'd be most capable of answering you.



argh...that would be pointless, as simply people could spam themselfs with dupes and ba dpsoter who get neg then rep then neg again would have high rep power...argh


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## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Ark 14.0 said:


> argh...that would be pointless, as simply people could spam themselfs with dupes and ba dpsoter who get neg then rep then neg again would have high rep power...argh



Realized that right after Taxman had replied.


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## Mider T (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Obviously people do.



And Justice prevails.



> Well regardless of me caring or not, its obvious someone cares too much about their power.



Not really, I've been slashed before and waded it out with no complaining.


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## Kalashnikov (Mar 22, 2009)

How to improve rep system?

Balance out neg rep with pos rep, thus make *neg rep power equal to pos rep power*. I never understood why we can neg only with half of rep power.

Is this really such a big deal to get a neg rep? Gang negging should be frobidden, especially if it happnes continiously, but other than that, there is no problem at all.
Just add a rule, that if you report regular neg, you get b& for few days and that will teach people to stop reporting meaningless shit like this.

Also, I was thinking about disabling gang POS repping (like in FCs), but since it would be pretty difficult to incorporate and control its not such a great idea.

Choosing from the poll I choose #2, but only because neg rep is needed. I really dont care, that I will never be able to get 100k or 500k rep and some other people will get them. Negging is a good way of expressing your disagreement with someone, also because not always you come back to threads you were posting in, so you arent able to see someones reponse to your post.

I got negged every now and then and its fine by me, even though I have the lowest rep in this thread, thus negging affects me more than other people


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Springlake said:


> Question for Taxman/random Admin.
> 
> Is it possible to fix rep-power to be generated from the amount of rep-pages?



That just seems really weird and I'm not sure what that would change really.


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## Adonis (Mar 22, 2009)

Harley said:


> Well regardless of me caring or not, its obvious someone cares too much about their power.



No, you can't just absolve yourself when you're exhibiting what you're criticizing someone for. It strikes me as envy, plain and simple, which I find just as pathetic.

Different side of the same coin.


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

Ark 14.0 said:


> argh...would that tecnicly make me Ark 15.0...argh?



you need much more points to actually _upgrade _ark 



> How about the "status quo" option?



which is still a viable option

damn it do I already need to repost my tl;dr


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## Ark 2.0 (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> you need much more points to actually _upgrade _ark



argh...how many, i just upgraded today...argh


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## Vanity (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> damn it do I already need to repost my tl;dr



Maybe you can edit Pek's post and also post it on the main page.


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## Springlake (Mar 22, 2009)

Taxman said:


> you need much more points to actually _upgrade _ark
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 .



Taxman said:


> It looks like I'm going to need to explain a few things....
> 
> I hope my "will rape for food" avy keeps your attention enough to at least brace for this tl;dr...
> 
> ...


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## 海外ニキ (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh my.

What shall ever become of the select few who love negs?


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## Suigetsu (Mar 22, 2009)

hmm I dunnot comprehend the 2nd option..
Does that mean that the green rep bar goes from those 10 squares to an icon of 100k?


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## Maiokhan (Mar 22, 2009)

Springlake said:


> Seriously. Can't people read the rules anymore? What the hell have happened to good old and proper reading comprehension?
> 
> The rules *quite* clearly state that you can't randomly neg people just for the sake of it.
> 
> ...



I have read the rules, thank you very much. And because I make a point about the current system being flawed I'm whining now? The very reason this thread is even here is because the staff have been getting loads of reports on rep abuse and the like and wanna do something about it. It's all about making the system less flawed and making the rules easier to enforce. giving everyone equal rep power and/or making pos and neg power equal are good ideas, imo. If you disagree, give a reason and the matter can be discussed. uncontructive comments like the above don't help.


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## Taxman (Mar 22, 2009)

> Does that mean that the green rep bar goes from those 10 squares to an icon of 100k?


The second option is basically saying this:
The rep power equation right now is:
rep altering power = post count/50 + reputation points/1000 + # of weeks on the forum

Option two is suggesting that:
rep altering power = post count/50 + # of weeks on the forum  

(we're going to divide reputation points by a really large number (approaching infinity and all that jazz) thus making it zero)

Since rep power will be nerfed, option two proposes that we remove all rep ranks over 100k *user is ascendant* (or for the sake of things amongst the staff, any rep rank over 500k (user is les sans pereil) due to how impossible they'd be to obtain...even with whoring.

Option two then proposes that we change the name of the last obtainable rank and then, we abolish rep whoring rules.

The green bar will stay intact...though w/e the rank that shows while hovering over the green bar will change depending if you reached 100k (or 500k) or not


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## Ryuzaki (Mar 23, 2009)

In my honest opinion, I think you guys should leave it the way it is. If someone can't really deal with being neg-repped, then there are some more serious issues underlying there than just that. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions, I don't really believe or support everything everyone says but when I strongly agree/disagree - I let them know. It's not something anyone should get hurt/cry a river over though. 

If there are people abusing the reputation system, well that's why the forum has Super Moderators. They should be able to distinguish the spam reppage based on who/what each person received via the Moderator CP. Also, if I'm not mistaken there are other options available to limit certain users who abuse the system outlandishly (i.e. the tards with the "neg me please" banners in their signatures).

Also, this might prove to be useful in discerning user reputation abuse and preventing reputation spammage: . Here are some of the features it has (I did a quick copy/paste), I think you guys will find this exceptionally useful, at the very least this should help push you guys in the direction you want to move in. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



*Require Positive Reputation Comment*
Members must leave a comment in order to give a post positive reputation.

*Reputation Power Cap*
Sets the maximum reputation giving power for any member, as well as the default forum wide setting, it is possible to set different caps in specific forums. Please carefully read the setting notes on how to do this (examples are given).

*Positive Reputation Multiply Factor*
Any positive reputation given will be multiplied by the "Positive Reputation Multiply Factor" - See Custom Factors below.

*Negative Reputation Multiply Factor*
Similar to above - any negative reputation given will be multiplied by the "Negative Reputation Multiply Factor" - See below.

*Custom Forum Based Multiply Factors*
As well as the default forum wide factor settings for positive and negative reputation, it is also possible to set custom values for specific forums. Again, please carefully read the setting notes on how to do this (examples are given).

*Closed Threads Limit*
Posts in closed threads, that exceed the given age, cannot be given reputation. It is possible to stop reputation being given on any post in a closed thread.

*Open Threads Limit*
Posts in open threads, that exceed the given age, cannot be given reputation. If you desire, it is possible to stop reputation being given on any post in an open thread.

*Allow or Disallow List*
A list of forums can be supplied and then reputation either be allowed only in those forums, or be disallowed only in those forums. It is also possible to stop reputation being given in any forum (basically suspending the reputation system).

*User Ban List*
An option to ban individual members from being able to give reputation to anyone.

*Custom Usergroup Based Multiply Factors*
These are basically the same as the forum based custom factors, but based on the giving members usergroup. Note that these will override any forum based multiplier.


Hope this is useful, I use some of these features on several of my forums to limit reppage abuse. Good luck in finding a solution for the problem...

*Edit:* You can also try this reputation modification, , it's sole purpose is to extend the reputation display a few blocks.


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## Jαmes (Mar 23, 2009)

i find the system quite fine... it's the people that need reform... perhaps if more serious punishments are enforced (as well as more encouragement and education to the members to report rep abuse), things would go just as they should...


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## Springlake (Mar 23, 2009)

> *Reputation Power Cap*
> Sets the maximum reputation giving power for any member, as well as the default forum wide setting, it is possible to set different caps in specific forums. Please carefully read the setting notes on how to do this (examples are given).
> 
> *Allow or Disallow List*
> A list of forums can be supplied and then reputation either be allowed only in those forums, or be disallowed only in those forums. It is also possible to stop reputation being given in any forum (basically suspending the reputation system).



I believe those two are very relevant to the entire problem?


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## Cirus (Mar 23, 2009)

Taxman said:


> And hey...most of all...you guys can use this as a platform as to how you'd think the rep system could be better (of course let's be feasible here...you'll need to come up with something we can implement without the help of M.Bison and Tazmoholic)...*so I guess changing up the rules*
> 
> Sure this isn't a democracy, but we like to take serious suggestions seriously
> 
> ...


 First off yes I read the whole thing.  Walls of text are my speciality.

Second.  The rule changing thing is what I have been saying for months. 

The only way to get things changed is by updating the rules.  Including what you can and can't do specifically.  Which also involves the staff giving up alot if not all of its discresion on if a rep is out of place/context/or anything of the bad variety.  Because everything is specifically spelled out in the rules.

Or to deal with problems on the board you can do the cosmic reset for rep.  Reset everyones rep back to "0" and that will solve the problem as well.

Or once a person hits a certain point in rep their ability to rep doesn't go up but rather becomes a fixed amount that they can rep for not matter how much they gain after it.

Or you can sit back and just make the punishments for people who do such so harsh (and I mean harsh) that no one will break the rules.  Though with the rules set up as they are no one will do anything for rep period because the staff would have to much leway on what they can say is or is not a bad rep.

Any of those ways will fix the problem and people will complain about them for a little while, but eventually things will get back on track the way they should be.  For a little while anyway.


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## Taxman (Mar 23, 2009)

haha...I actually remember when our admins had the power for the "allow or disallow list"

(lol way before I was a staff member)

needless to say, I believe mbxx and tazmo removed our ability for all of those lovely rep options when the snowblower hacker attacked.  So those appear to be one of those "we need to get a hold of mbxx and tazmo some how and convince them to do this" options.

Though Goobs may have a few of those...I'll remember to ask him (I certainly don't have any of those)


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## Mider T (Mar 23, 2009)

Springlake said:


> I believe those two are very relevant to the entire problem?



Problem is such power belongs to Tazmo and mbxx.


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## FFLN (Mar 23, 2009)

I think neg-reps should pack more punch. Literally. Since that's not happening though... 

I voted for the second option. Although, I do think it would be more interesting if there were more than two types of rep. Maybe we can give and receive varying types of rep instead of just plain old positive and negative rep... and that annoying grey rep. We could have different icons to represent our rep instead of green and red boxes, or pink and blue, depending upon what skin you're using. Anyway, some examples: 

This member is Loved- 
This member is Funny- 
This member is Cool- 
This member is GARR-  
This member is a Douche- 
This member is a Repwhore- 
This member is a Pothead- :toliet
This member is a Nice Guy- 
This member is a Really Nice Guy- 

If you give members these options, I'm sure most people will overlook whatever you do with the rep system.


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## Mider T (Mar 23, 2009)

FFLN said:


> I think neg-reps should pack more punch. Literally. Since that's not happening though...
> 
> I voted for the second option. Although, I do think it would be more interesting if there were more than two types of rep. Maybe we can give and receive varying types of rep instead of just plain old positive and negative rep... and that annoying grey rep. We could have different icons to represent our rep instead of green and red boxes, or pink and blue, depending upon what skin you're using. Anyway, some examples:
> 
> ...



How would that be any different that option 2 other than being more ghey?


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## 海外ニキ (Mar 23, 2009)

Yeah like so many other things, will we really be able to convince the Sadmins?


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## Darth Nihilus (Mar 23, 2009)

Post #611


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## Ryuzaki (Mar 23, 2009)

Taxman said:


> haha...I actually remember when our admins had the power for the "allow or disallow list"
> 
> (lol way before I was a staff member)
> 
> ...


Oh I see, well do what you can in that case but those two modifications are from the authors of vBulletin themselves. I don't think he would intentionally expose any potentially risky xss flaws. Most of these modifiers are limited to within the vB engine.

They are actual simple add-ons, jsut importing them from your plugin manager and modifying the settings via vB Options. But you will need the webmaster/hoster to for the latter alteration I provided. That's the best solution I can come up with for you guys other than just coding out the design myself.


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## Utopia Realm (Mar 23, 2009)

Don't have any problem with the rep system as far as neg rep is concerned. Let the noobs who revenge neg rep waste thier time on such simple matters I say.


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## tom (Mar 23, 2009)

I think the best solution is to make neg reps 5 times as powerful as pos reps. I'm not kidding. This is the best way to make the reputation system accurately reflect someone's real reputation because it's far harder to gain points than lose them. People give pos reps for pointless crap all the time, but negs are usually reserved for more heinous crimes such as being annoying or stupid. It should be far easier to destroy someone's reputation than build it up. Just like in real life. In fact, you should probably make negs 10 times more powerful.


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## Vanity (Mar 23, 2009)

tom said:


> I think the best solution is to make neg reps 5 times as powerful as pos reps. I'm not kidding. This is the best way to make the reputation system accurately reflect someone's real reputation because it's far harder to gain points than lose them. People give pos reps for pointless crap all the time, but negs are usually reserved for more heinous crimes such as being annoying or stupid. It should be far easier to destroy someone's reputation than build it up. Just like in real life. In fact, you should probably make negs 10 times more powerful.



If the mods did that people would be getting way more pissed off when they get negged and the hatred on NF would probably be worse.

I don't even want to see what it would be like honestly, especially because there are people who abuse the negs.

You might save your negs for more heinous crimes but not everyone does that.


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## tom (Mar 23, 2009)

Or if you scroll over the rep bar, it tells you how many negs that person has ever gotten. Or have one pos rep bar and one neg rep bar, telling you how much of each tthe person has. In this case of course negs and pos' would have equal power.


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## Vanity (Mar 23, 2009)

tom said:


> Or have one pos rep bar and one neg rep bar, telling you how much of each tthe person has. In this case of course negs and pos' would have equal power.



Well that might be interesting in a sense but I actually think that would encourage more people to neg people, which isn't really a good thing.


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## Kalashnikov (Mar 23, 2009)

tom said:


> I think the best solution is to make neg reps 5 times as powerful as pos reps. I'm not kidding. This is the best way to make the reputation system accurately reflect someone's real reputation because it's far harder to gain points than lose them. People give pos reps for pointless crap all the time, but negs are usually reserved for more heinous crimes such as being annoying or stupid. It should be far easier to destroy someone's reputation than build it up. Just like in real life. In fact, you should probably make negs 10 times more powerful.



I second this. That would be the best option. Plus, forum staff would need to be more aware and strict in cases like gang repping for no or poor reasons.

That would solve the whole problem.


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## Merodach (Mar 23, 2009)

tom said:


> I think the best solution is to make neg reps 5 times as powerful as pos reps. I'm not kidding. This is the best way to make the reputation system accurately reflect someone's real reputation because it's far harder to gain points than lose them. People give pos reps for pointless crap all the time, but negs are usually reserved for more heinous crimes such as being annoying or stupid. It should be far easier to destroy someone's reputation than build it up. Just like in real life. In fact, you should probably make negs 10 times more powerful.



Hhhmmm... Sounds like a "mutually assured destruction" sort of thing. I gotta admit I kind of like it.


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## newbieFans (Mar 23, 2009)

Rep doesn't matter to me.....but as long as it(Mod choice) makes the discussions in this forum more interesting I'll support it.


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## almighty28 (Mar 23, 2009)

It seems as though it might be a good Idea to have the mods and admins take control of the rep. This eliminates rep whoring, but at the same time makes more work for the admins/mods. 

So instead of expecting rep for something people should just be helpful, and if it is noticed they get rep, if it isn't, so what your helping a fellow fan of naruto/bleach with the question they had.

Its not saying the people in charge have to read everything to see who is helping, but if they come across it the person would get rep, on the other hand if someone is caught flaming or a mod/admin gets a message saying that someone is flaming or something like that, then they could get neg rep. Of course to much neg rep would equal a ban or something.

Granted I don't post much but I have been around for awhile so no noob comments please.


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## tom (Mar 23, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Well that might be interesting in a sense but I actually think that would encourage more people to neg people, which isn't really a good thing.



well, you know, if negs were more commonplace and happened more often, people probably wouldn't make such a deal out of them.

negs actually mitigate flaming because you can't keep up a back and forth argument in the rep system. Without negs people are more prone to flame someone within a thread, making it public. And when a specific insult becomes public, it's understandable that one would want to defend their honor. At least with a neg, it's relatively private and can be easily forgotten about.


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## Gamahiro (Mar 23, 2009)

I honestly think most ppl don't like to be negged, they just love the red color rep bar (hence "NEG REPS ONLY PLEASE") ..so just get rid of the neg rep and allow the user to chose what color  pos rep bars they get if that is possible or if I am making any sense at all?


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## Deer_Hunter_ (Mar 23, 2009)

Keep the system as it is.


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## Koi (Mar 23, 2009)

holy crap i remember when this was a three-paged, baby of a thread I think it should be left as is, generally, but repwhores should be punished more severely.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Mar 23, 2009)

Make neg reps worth as much as pos reps and ignore both poll options.


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## Halo (Mar 23, 2009)

LOL. I saw this thread for the first time today and its already accumulated 30+ pages????

Just remove reps altogether and be done with this.


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## whamslam3 (Mar 23, 2009)

honestly its fine how it is. we need rep trust me. especially for the requesting threads.


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## Abigail (Mar 23, 2009)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Make neg reps worth as much as pos reps and ignore both poll options.



I agree with this.


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## Darth Nihilus (Mar 23, 2009)

Just use the repseal more often, or if needed, a permanent repseal for repwhores, if there is such an option.


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## 宮本Musashi (Mar 23, 2009)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> Just use the repseal more often, or if needed, a permanent repseal for repwhores, if there is such an option.



:hoseconded


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## Garfield (Mar 23, 2009)

Keep the colors get rid of the numbers is what I say...
So in essence nulls which are meaningful.


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## uncanny_sama (Mar 23, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> So this is all about unfairly negging? Really?
> 
> You neg because you dislike a post. If the person thinks that was unfair, they take it up with a mod.
> 
> ...



i agree with the public flaming


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## Even (Mar 23, 2009)

I say option nr. 2, but still keeping the ranks above 100K. Neg reps are nice to have to let someone know if they're a douche, or anything like that. Maybe you should enforce the rules about negging a bit, though (harsher punishments for flame negs, revenge negs etc.).


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## CRACKDOWN (Mar 23, 2009)

I guess moving the rep could make the forum a little simpler than the fact that people keep naging bout the power they contain and should deserve to be treated with higher respect.....the forum is bascially a thread of open discussion really of  ideas of the anime which poeple watch and get together to have a freindly coversation soo...not needed!


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## martryn (Mar 23, 2009)

Ok, I'll chime in:

I love neg rep.  I don't like the idea of getting rid of it because through neg rep I can express my disapproval to people.  Despite being banned for flaming in a neg (which was retarded since I negged the guy for being a complete asshole to someone, and that, being my reason, was what I told the guy), I think neg rep is a great tool.  I take the negs (That aren't revenge negs) I receive to heart, and try to tailor my posts, or at least see the other guy's point of view.  

I also don't like the idea that your rep power has no bearing on how much you rep.  I mean, that would throw our system into chaos and turn it on it's head.  It would encourage spamming for posts like crazy.  I've got a fair number of posts, but members who have been on the forum for less than a year have more than I do.  Unless your idea would make join date significantly more important than post count....

I don't see the problem with the system now.  If you want to fix the system here are suggestions I have:

1.  Make negs worth more.  As was said above, you can't keep positive rep in check because there is really no real way to drop your rep score.  You get a member like me coming along and I can cancel out about a dozen regular member negs to a person with one positive rep.

2.  Make it impossible to rep back.  You have in place a system where you can't rep someone multiple times in a row until after you rep other people first.  Do that with return reps as well, so that you can't return a rep for a rep.  This will prevent all revenge reps and stop a large majority of the rep game/abusers and rep circles and the like.  

3.  Enforce rep rules across the board.  You've got mods, like the OP, who just give themselves whatever fucking score they want.  Several members have unique scores for some reason or another.  I've been on the forum for four years now and I've never had a unique rep score or a mod fucked post count or user name or any other sort of status symbol.  Mods should set an example.  

And where is this idea of unattainable rep ranks come from?  I'm closing in on NPU every day that goes by.  If a member who has been here in half the time has already jumped up and passed me, then the rank is hardly unattainable.  Take a look at someone like Zaru or Hollie.  Funny that they're both Blender ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".), but that aside, the ranks are hardly unattainable.


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## Mintaka (Mar 23, 2009)

> Some staff members are thinking for the little guy, yet think the reason why people whore is to neg people with a bigger neg PUNCH (which isn't necessarily true...whoring happens to stroke egos


I've noticed this myself and I find it incredibly amusing.  I've always enjoyed making fun of the fucktards who only cared about rep as it's rather hilarious sad to see people whine and bitch over colored bars no?


That said negs must stay.  They must stay to be used against those who are either mental, are bad trolls, or otherwise deserve it.  As for the mass negging sprees I have an interesting idea to deal with them.

Let them keep there neg repping ability but remove the rep lowering effect it has.  In essence make there negs nulls.  Then they can go ahead and be the moronic dimwits they will be but have no overall effect on anyone.  Also make it so that the one who was targeted can delete said nulls from there page They'll think there doing something and the targeted person won't be badly affected by it at all.  This will take the fun out of there mass internet cockwaving negging campaigns and they'll move onto something else or they'll do what they always do and bitch.

I also agree with making negs worth more.  If some dumbass can come along with 15 of his internet circle jerkers freinds and have them pos him when ever he's negged then what the hell is the POINT of negging somone?  All that will happen is his rep will increase which ios pretty well the opposite of what you wanted.  The problem is no matter what you do save scrapping it or nulling it there will be abuses.

Of course if you scrap it flaming will increase and mass panic and hysteria will follow because the circle jerkers and rep lovers will have nothing to wank over.


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## Adonis (Mar 23, 2009)

It'd be funny if the result of this thread was negs being worth more considering the complaints started over people disliking the fact they were being negged.


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## Master Bait (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm already used to the current rep system, so I prefer it unchanged. But I'll accept whatever decisions the mods and admins will take.


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## Darth (Mar 23, 2009)

where's the "keep everything the same" option?


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## martryn (Mar 23, 2009)

> where's the "keep everything the same" option?



They said they knew everyone would vote for it, so they didn't include it as an option.  Which makes me ask, if everyone would vote for it, shouldn't we consider that it might be the best course of action?


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## Di@BoLik (Mar 23, 2009)

If it can't stay the same, how about setting a maximum cap to the amount of the neg rep?


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## Darth (Mar 23, 2009)

makes sense to me..


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Mar 23, 2009)

martryn said:


> They said they knew everyone would vote for it, so they didn't include it as an option.  Which makes me ask, if everyone would vote for it, shouldn't we consider that it might be the best course of action?



Interpret that as the mods determining the system is too broken to keep it as is, and they are finding some democratic solution. 

I'm sure they have always been overjoyed to police rep-whoring and illegit negging. Really, it's a waste of their time.


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## Munak (Mar 23, 2009)

I think we should keep the negs. We shouldn't silence the option to disagree with someone just because a few mass-negs.

I'm voting for 2.


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## Dracule Mihawk (Mar 23, 2009)

I like Rep. Negs are cool too though. I have no idea what to vote for.


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## Tachikoma (Mar 23, 2009)

Don't neg me bro.


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## martryn (Mar 23, 2009)

> If it can't stay the same, how about setting a maximum cap to the amount of the neg rep?



Because that cap will eventually become obsolete to members of the forum who have been here and have a lot of rep.  It'd be almost the same as doing away with negs altogether. 



> I'm sure they have always been overjoyed to police rep-whoring and illegit negging. Really, it's a waste of their time.



They're mods.  If it becomes too big of a waste of time, they should just make a few mods that are responsible for JUST rep investigation.  I mean, it's their job to do these things.


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## Ryan (Mar 23, 2009)

Take out the numbers, if you're looking for an option that would make your life easier, seriously. Remove the rep power system and the ranks also, for the lulz, so it shouldn't be hard for anyone to get a red or a green bar. Like, each neg or pos eqauls a single square, or whatever. Though, can we get different colours to choose from, please? I want a black bar; it looks way cooler, tbh.


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## Deimos (Mar 23, 2009)

Second option sounds better than the first, and better than the current system (it won't change anything for people who don't try to abuse it anyways).

On a side note, the only thing that somehow frustrates me in the current system is that you can't repeatedly rep the same person. Sometimes I want to rep someone and I'm not allowed to because of that reason, even though I can't even remember the last time I did. I'll admit I have already been forced to "spread" some rep as the little message invites you to do to be able to rep a good post.


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## Mashy (Mar 23, 2009)

wow

never have I cared less


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## Rock Lee (Mar 23, 2009)

Keep it how it is.


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## Mashy (Mar 23, 2009)

Actually, rethinking this -

Disabling negs effectively cancels the value of a positive rep. After all, how can happiness exist with sadness?

Also, this isn't a disney kids forum - it's not like people can't handle negs or anything. Except for a select few. But no one gives a shit about them.


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## Sin (Mar 23, 2009)

> Except for a select few. But no one gives a shit about them.



This whole thing started because of the people supposedly no one gives a shit about.


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## emanresu (Mar 23, 2009)

i say stick to the nature


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## Jessica (Mar 23, 2009)

If you're going to go as far as removing neg reps, why not just get rid of the whole system completely? I mean, reputation isn't really even used for its intended purposes here anyway. Rep whoring is always going to happen, too.

But I'm just going to vote now.. 

The first option is good, because it would prevent people from really whining a lot or just getting really disgruntled. It would also make neg-happy people stop abusing their ability to neg people just because they didn't like a post for personal reasons and not because a post was just bad in general. (I'm thinking of an NF friend when I say this, and YOU know who you are).

So first option for me.


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## Felt (Mar 23, 2009)

tom said:


> I think the best solution is to make neg reps 5 times as powerful as pos reps. I'm not kidding. This is the best way to make the reputation system accurately reflect someone's real reputation because it's far harder to gain points than lose them. People give pos reps for pointless crap all the time, but negs are usually reserved for more heinous crimes such as being annoying or stupid. It should be far easier to destroy someone's reputation than build it up. Just like in real life. In fact, you should probably make negs 10 times more powerful.



I would then neg for 15,000 points. lol.


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## Tachikoma (Mar 23, 2009)

Before the rep system is removed, I'd like to cash in all my hard earned reps for a few buckets of KFC and a litre of coolaide please. 

Failing that use all my rep to give someone a 600K neg


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## Mashy (Mar 23, 2009)

Sin said:


> This whole thing started because of the people supposedly no one gives a shit about.



no one gives a shit about people who care about people who no one gives a shit about


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## martryn (Mar 23, 2009)

> no one gives a shit about people who care about people who no one gives a shit about



Wait... what?


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## Vault (Mar 23, 2009)

Mashed Potato said:


> no one gives a shit about people who care about people who no one gives a shit about



so true


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## Tachikoma (Mar 23, 2009)

Mashed Potato said:


> no one gives a shit about people who care about people who no one gives a shit about


As evident from this thread, most people gives a shit about people who care about people who no one gives a shit about :/

Probably just for doorahma reasons though.


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## Ryan (Mar 23, 2009)

not gonna happen, pek


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## Felt (Mar 23, 2009)

For those interested in what would happen if we had a fair poll...

[SF-BSS]_Michiko_to_Hatchin_-_22_720p[XviD AC3 Final]

I think that result speaks for itself...


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## Gunners (Mar 23, 2009)

Urgh my solution is the right one, because it came from me 

Seriously. Just having a static rep system would prevent people from posting to increase rep power. Posts shouldn't be taken into account anyway as some people post 1000s of post worth of crap. Everything would be level I think. 

Also resetting rep every year or so.


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## Danchou (Mar 23, 2009)

Since apparently barely one percent out of a forum of 150k+ users has achieved Ascendant and over, a great deal of who abused the system by by whoring instead of making real contributive posts, I don't see why you're doing all this trouble to be 'fair'. 

In any case, the current system is obviously not really working. Something has to change. New people don't have a fair change to blend in without receiving bias or getting negged by older users.
As it is, the entire purpose of rep has been defeated a long time ago. Instead of rewarding people who make a contribution to the forums by their participation, it's become about repping your e-friends and negging your e-nemies. Even though it's not the best solution, option 2 is the most efficient way to go about if you're serious about actually making stuff change. None of the counterarguments I've read so far actually hold much ground in the end. For instance, if you're afraid that people will increase meaningless posts, it's still easier to spot postwhores or flamers than repabusers. Even if you do want to reward people that only make an effort to make good posts to get rep to begin with, there's no reason that should change. People can still rep each other with every laugh, only the ranks do not change after Ascendant.

And I'll be honest. I already like the second option just because of the major bawwing and e-hurt that would ensue when people have lost their precious rep. I've already enjoyed seeing some of that here.


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## Kalashnikov (Mar 23, 2009)

Hollie said:


> For those interested in what would happen if we had a fair poll...
> 
> Naruto: The consequences!
> 
> I think that result speaks for itself...



I think you didn't read an OP


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## PoinT_BlanK (Mar 23, 2009)

Leave things as they are..


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## Canute87 (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't know. i like the rep thing. It what's motivates me to make decent posts and threads.

remove this rep thing and chances are you'll have an increase in spam and trolling.


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## Felt (Mar 23, 2009)

Kalashnikov said:


> I think you didn't read an OP



How        so?


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## HugeGuy (Mar 23, 2009)

Why don't we just reset the entire thing...


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## E (Mar 23, 2009)

the highest rank on BE forums is "Soul Society King"


about 60% of the forum have that rank because having equal ranks is liek totally like teh koolest



just sayin'


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## HugeGuy (Mar 23, 2009)

Before the rep was revised, it was really easy to go celestials or ascendants. Half of my current rep comes from that era. And I believe most "ultras" or "broke through heavens" got their rep from that time too which is really unfair to the new members. They can barely scratch the "luminaries" now.

I'm ok with resetting the entire thing. Maybe we have to reduce the power post count has over rep power too. If you think you're really good, I'm sure you'll find your way back to the top of rep ladder in no time.


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## E (Mar 23, 2009)

srsly, am i one of the very few that are optimistic enough to believe that this just one huge troll to see how many people would rage?






in b4 i get assassinated because i know too much


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## Sin (Mar 23, 2009)

> And I believe most "ultras" or "broke through heavens" got their rep from that time too which is really unfair to the new members.



Hollie is the perfect counter-example.


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## Ryan (Mar 23, 2009)

E said:


> srsly, am i one of the very few that are optimistic enough to believe that this just one huge troll to see how many people would rage?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Tazmo said:


> not gonna happen, pek


 
I mean, seriously, what else do you want?


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## Trolli (Mar 23, 2009)

their both interesting


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## HugeGuy (Mar 23, 2009)

Sin said:


> Hollie is the perfect counter-example.



One member isn't most. Plus the "counter-examples" are exactly the group that proved they're so good they shouldn't fear their rep reset. They'll be at the top again in no time.


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## Sin (Mar 23, 2009)

> Failing that use all my rep to give someone a 600K neg



Fully support something like this.


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## Felix (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't really remember whoring me out to get to Ascendant...

Option 2 seems the best of the two, however, I like some of the alternatives that are being presented here in this thread


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## Kalashnikov (Mar 23, 2009)

Hollie said:


> How        so?





mistah pek said:


> We might not even make any changes but we removed that option since we want to know *which of these two option* you might consider best for the forum and for yourself.



Plus, someone from staff has mentioned, that they know most of the people would vote fot "don't change anything", that's why it's not in the poll. Thus making your little thread and poll meaningless, since everyone already knew what you wanted to proove.


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## Felt (Mar 23, 2009)

Kalashnikov said:


> Plus, someone from staff has mentioned, that they know most of the people would vote fot "don't change anything", that's why it's not in the poll. Thus making your little thread and poll meaningless, since everyone already knew what you wanted to proove.



If they knew everyone was going to vote for it then why leave it off?  Given the choice the majority of people would choose to keep it the same, they are trying to force us into having something we don't want.

My poll is not meaningless, it is clearly showing that people don't want these things, alot of people have voted here because they feel they are the only 2 choices.  Infact we've been told that even if we dislike both we should still vote... Why?  Because they want to make it look like we want change.

If my thread is meaningless then this must be equally meaningless.  You can't have a democratic poll without an option to remain the same...

Anyway I probably won't respond to this thread anymore, since I've said all I can say and the people who want it the same have clearly made their point, we can't do anything anymore, it's up to the mods to either keep it the same or ignore our wishes.


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## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

Hollie said:


> *If they knew everyone was going to vote for it then why leave it off? * Given the choice the majority of people would choose to keep it the same, they are trying to force us into having something we don't want.
> 
> My poll is not meaningless, it is clearly showing that people don't want these things, alot of people have voted here because they feel they are the only 2 choices.  Infact we've been told that even if we dislike both we should still vote... Why?  Because they want to make it look like we want change.



Because in that case, what people think about these two choices wouldn't be reflected properly.

The staff offered these two choices because they want to know what we think about them in particular.

The reason they haven't included the option "stay the same" is because that is what they have seen to be the most popular option amongst the forum members already and now they want to see what we think about these two choices without that "stay the same" option to detract us from a change of some kind.


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## Hexa (Mar 23, 2009)

Yeah.  You're not _agreeing_ to either of the choices by voting for one.  Whether we'd implement one, both, or none of these options is theoretically a totally different topic of discussion.


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## E (Mar 23, 2009)

ummmmmmmm

wouldn't it have been alot easier to just not vote?


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## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 23, 2009)

I say this is a decoy to keep us entertained while pek finishes his master plan

whatever it may be


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## Cronos (Mar 23, 2009)

i haven't voted anything either because i just do not agree with the options


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## Banhammer (Mar 23, 2009)

As an OBD member I am completly and 100 % against removing neg power. Too many retarded trolls to wich we have no weapons to trully fight against besides our branding irons.
But 100k limit? Limiting someone putting barriers and closing off their potential, pointing somewhere and say "you will never be more than that no matter what"  is the cruelest thing you can ever do to someone else. Even if only on the level of seriousness that is "rep".
Specially, to us people who have allready broke past that, but not by that much of a margin, and have actually earned rep, wich in the OBD (wich is my personal intrest) is practically impossible to get. It's like a monthly thing.
If you have to set a limit, fine, set a limit, but let it be 250k at least. Absolutly no less than 200k.
So, with that said, I can't vote for either.


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## Hexa (Mar 23, 2009)

Hollie said:


> I haven't voted because no matter how many people tell me, it isn't a fair poll.


It's just asking which of those two options you'd prefer.  It'd be unfair if the poll was loaded in favor of one of the two options, I suppose.

If you don't vote, the information we get out of the poll suffers.  It's "what the board thinks, not including those who don't read the OP" instead of "what the board thinks".  Granted, telling anything about what the board thinks from three hundred something votes is impossible anyhow.



			
				Cronos said:
			
		

> i haven't voted anything either because i just do not agree with the options


You're not _agreeing_ to the options by voting.


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## Kri (Mar 23, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> Because in that case, what people think about these two choices wouldn't be reflected properly.
> 
> The staff offered these two choices because they want to know what we think about them in particular.
> 
> The reason they haven't included the option "stay the same" is because that is what they have seen to be the most popular option amongst the forum members already and now they want to see what we think about these two choices without that "stay the same" option to detract us from a change of some kind.


I didn't realize this was so difficult to grasp. :/


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## Dre (Mar 23, 2009)

> -The formula for rep power becomes Post Count+Join date=Rep Power


*
I like this idea.*


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## Korttihai (Mar 23, 2009)

Thread was really, really long, so I read post 1 and then I decided to reply.
I am sure that this thought has been outspoken already, but meh.

Reputation is called reputation because It shows how well known you are, and are you liked or not liked.
the rep-system reflects the world we live in, so turning rep into a post count/join date what-you-call-it kills the idea of reputation. After that rep means nothing more than how long have you been here. It doesn't tell you are you a good forumite or not.

Removing neg-rep is propably the best way. you can always just not-rep someone. neg-repping is showing that you don't like someone, and then punching that person.
in the face
with your "epic wood."

so yeah
down with neg-rep

yeehaw.


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## Loki (Mar 23, 2009)

damn i just don't like it,


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## Felix (Mar 23, 2009)

Korttihai said:


> Thread was really, really long, so I read post 1 and then I decided to reply.
> I am sure that this thought has been outspoken already, but meh.
> 
> Reputation is called reputation because It shows how well known you are, and are you liked or not liked.
> ...



It's only modifying your Rep power
You are still able to Rep and Neg people. But the older you are and the more active you are, the greater the power to rep you have.

And it won't be that "BIG" of a power, because Rep incomes will be really measly with Post Count and Join date alone. Hence the 100k being a really difficult Rank to achieve


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## Snickers (Mar 23, 2009)

Yeh fuck this, I was writing an unbiased tl;dr post about this shit and something happened and hit the ''previous page'' button.

Mockery much/


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## Vanity (Mar 23, 2009)

E said:


> ummmmmmmm
> 
> wouldn't it have been alot easier to just not vote?



I do wonder what staff would do it no one had voted on this poll actually. I mean what could they do then, if no one even ever voted and just boycotted the whole thing.


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## Nakiro (Mar 23, 2009)

Just remove rep all together... it obviously doesn't work in forum full of immature users. I mean if you can get a rep for saying "Sasuke ROX and Naruto SUX" or "Naruto OWNS Uchiha trash." the system is obviously flawed. 

1. It would get rid of the rep whoring all together. 
2. You wouldn't have to worry about neg reps/revenge reps. 

I don't think neither solution will resolve rep whoring.


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## XMURADX (Mar 23, 2009)

So finally my suggestion was taken seriously...


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## Ryan (Mar 23, 2009)

*negs* **


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## Kalashnikov (Mar 23, 2009)

Kribaby said:


> I didn't realize this was so difficult to grasp. :/



Obviously it is.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 23, 2009)

According to poll made by Hollie (the same as in this thread, with "Don't change anything" option), 80% of members don't want any changes. I can see why...

//HbS


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## Munsu's Light (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't like either.. But I will choose the second...

The first will never work  People love to neg rep each others 

The second is kinda not good too... People having 10k and more are people that normally doing spam  SO the formula Join date+Post counts= Rep is kinda flawed 

I like the rep like it is now  I have never received neg rep for nothing and always green rep for something


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## Hiroshi (Mar 23, 2009)

Hunted by sister said:


> According to poll made by Hollie (the same as in this thread, with "Don't change anything" option), 80% of members don't want any changes. I can see why...
> 
> //HbS



Two things:

It was already stated that if the third option was added we know that it would be the one voted on the most which is why it wasn't added in the first place.
The sub-forum in which it was placed makes poll biased as only a select few who visit the section are going to vote.


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## Zaru (Mar 23, 2009)

Hollie said:


> If they knew everyone was going to vote for it then why leave it off?


When a "government" decides changes are necessary to keep something, like keeping up free health care at the price of reducing the budget of something else...

Do you think anyone would vote for budget-reducing options if there's a "don't change anything" options? Exactly. The people don't see the problem, so they don't want anything to change.


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## Kalashnikov (Mar 23, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> I do wonder what staff would do it no one had voted on this poll actually. I mean what could they do then, if no one even ever voted and just boycotted the whole thing.



They would do, as they pleased just like they will do now, with people actually voting.

They ask us and allow us to express our opinion on that matter just because of courtesy, not because they can't do shit without you and your approval


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## Byakuya (Mar 23, 2009)

why so serious guys


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## Senbonzakura (Mar 23, 2009)

i hope they take it off. i got neg rep for my opinion in a thread that asks for it.


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## Felt (Mar 23, 2009)

Zaru said:


> When a "government" decides changes are necessary to keep something, like keeping up free health care at the price of reducing the budget of something else...
> 
> Do you think anyone would vote for budget-reducing options if there's a "don't change anything" options? Exactly. The people don't see the problem, so they don't want anything to change.



That's because the people are the ones using it.



I think I should stop replying I'm just digging myself into a hole.


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## Alex Louis Armstrong (Mar 23, 2009)

Rep lost meaning shortly after i was neged for my avatar i spent 4 hours working on since then i just put people who neg me on ignore after i neg them back ( lol i don't like their opinion since they don't like mine fudge em )

I'd rather not have the option to neg or be neged for myself alone but unless option 1 is chosen this won't happen.

it's kinda funny to somewhere it says if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all i always think of negs after thinking about that XD.

I'd rather ya take 3/4 or all of their rep after they gang neg somebody.

editld avatar


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## krickitat (Mar 23, 2009)

what would be nice is if rep actually meant something. All that rep means now is that the more you have the more you can pos/neg rep someone. You can either be REALLY nice or really mean. 

What about reward programs for how much pos rep you have? I have seen point systems work much better then Rep systems. why shouldnt you be rewarded for being a positive contributing member to the Forums? purchaing games or different avatar sizes, access to different parts of the web site or maybe you need to use a certain amount if you wish to do a Name change. 

Wouldnt that be easier on the mods? Instead of all this i request you mods must do why shouldnt members have to give something in exchange? You want a name change?? well that takes so many "points"


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## Yαriko (Mar 23, 2009)

so much debate over the rep system..

doesn't matter ...seriously


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## Kathutet (Mar 23, 2009)

krickitat said:


> what would be nice is if rep actually meant something. All that rep means now is that the more you have the more you can pos/neg rep someone. You can either be REALLY nice or really mean.
> 
> What about reward programs for how much pos rep you have? I have seen point systems work much better then Rep systems. why shouldnt you be rewarded for being a positive contributing member to the Forums? purchaing games or different avatar sizes, access to different parts of the web site or maybe you need to use a certain amount if you wish to do a Name change.
> 
> Wouldnt that be easier on the mods? Instead of all this i request you mods must do why shouldnt members have to give something in exchange? You want a name change?? well that takes so many "points"


Yes, I've seen forums that use this feature as well. I'd love something like that to happen. You're supposed to trade your reputation points for those prizes, right?

You could 'purchase' a 200x150 avatar, larger PM space, larger sig space, a name change... Infinite possibilities~


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## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

krickitat said:


> what would be nice is if rep actually meant something. All that rep means now is that the more you have the more you can pos/neg rep someone. You can either be REALLY nice or really mean.
> 
> What about reward programs for how much pos rep you have? I have seen point systems work much better then Rep systems. why shouldnt you be rewarded for being a positive contributing member to the Forums? purchaing games or different avatar sizes, access to different parts of the web site or maybe you need to use a certain amount if you wish to do a Name change.
> 
> Wouldnt that be easier on the mods? Instead of all this i request you mods must do why shouldnt members have to give something in exchange? You want a name change?? well that takes so many "points"





Kitsune Naruto said:


> Yes, I've seen forums that use this feature as well. I'd love something like that to happen. You're supposed to trade your reputation points for those prizes, right?
> 
> You could 'purchase' a 200x150 avatar, larger PM space, larger sig space, a name change... Infinite possibilities~



This would take repwhoring to a whole new level. At the moment the only real advantage repwhores would get would be to increase their rep altering ability whcih doesn't really mean much at all.

If they were to be able to receive "prizes", they would repwhore a lot more and this way be awarded for their efforts with larger avatars and such. this would also take away from the whole 150x200 avatar size meaning anything at all.

If people think that members with a lot of rep already wield a lot of power, how will it seem when the sets or PM space priviliges are so tricked out that it becomes a farce?

Currently the extra PM space is afforded to pimps and staff. The reason that they have this is due to the necessity for a larger PM space seeing as they actually need it.


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## Vanity (Mar 23, 2009)

krickitat said:


> what would be nice is if rep actually meant something. All that rep means now is that the more you have the more you can pos/neg rep someone. You can either be REALLY nice or really mean.
> 
> What about reward programs for how much pos rep you have? I have seen point systems work much better then Rep systems. why shouldnt you be rewarded for being a positive contributing member to the Forums? purchaing games or different avatar sizes, access to different parts of the web site or maybe you need to use a certain amount if you wish to do a Name change.
> 
> Wouldnt that be easier on the mods? Instead of all this i request you mods must do why shouldnt members have to give something in exchange? You want a name change?? well that takes so many "points"



If people could get prizes out of how much they have, I think it might make people want to whore even more since they can also get something else out of it(a prize) and also more likely to neg other people who they don't want to see win prizes.


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## Fay (Mar 23, 2009)

krickitat said:


> what would be nice is if rep actually meant something. All that rep means now is that the more you have the more you can pos/neg rep someone. You can either be REALLY nice or really mean.
> 
> What about reward programs for how much pos rep you have? I have seen point systems work much better then Rep systems. why shouldnt you be rewarded for being a positive contributing member to the Forums? purchaing games or different avatar sizes, access to different parts of the web site or maybe you need to use a certain amount if you wish to do a Name change.
> 
> Wouldnt that be easier on the mods? Instead of all this i request you mods must do why shouldnt members have to give something in exchange? You want a name change?? well that takes so many "points"



I agree with this post.

Also, I will try to explain my problem with the second option:

Rep= joindate + postcount

But then, you can't +rep or -rep anymore, because when you rep a member he/she won't gain reppoints. Because rep =joindate+ postcount and incoming reps from other members don't count according to that definition.
This means that, the rep you give to people is a "null rep", thus making rep in the first place not neccesery. 
Why? Because you can not do anything with it. You can't + rep and you can't -rep. So there is no need for rep to be joindate+postcount in the first place.

Example:

Member 1:
joindate=52 weeks
Postcount=500
Rep= 62

Member 2:
joindate=8 weeks
Postcount=200
rep= 13

Member 1 reps Member 2, which would mean member 2's new rep would be: 13+62=75
This goes against what the mod's option is, because according to their option, rep is only joindate+postcount. Meaning that the rep Member 1 gave member 2 is a null rep.


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## Tachikoma (Mar 23, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> I do wonder what staff would do it no one had voted on this poll actually. I mean what could they do then, if no one even ever voted and just boycotted the whole thing.


Why do you repeat yourself in every post you make? I mean its liek you're saying the same thing only twice, as in more then once, then you go on to repeat yourself and also say the same thing again, multiple times, more then once. 

In short : Why do you repeat yourself in every post you make? I mean its liek you're saying the same thing only twice, as in more then once, then you go on to repeat yourself and also say the same thing again, multiple times, more then once.


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## Kathutet (Mar 23, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> This would take repwhoring to a whole new level. At the moment the only real advantage repwhores would get would be to increase their rep altering ability whcih doesn't really mean much at all.
> 
> If they were to be able to receive "prizes", they would repwhore a lot more and this way be awarded for their efforts with larger avatars and such. this would also take away from the whole 150x200 avatar size meaning anything at all.
> 
> ...


That could be solved by removing the ability of members to rep one another. As so many people stated in here, it is a useless feature. And if something is useless in your eyes, you'd rather have it removed.


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## Hentai (Mar 23, 2009)

Option 3, make negs twice as strong as they are already


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## E (Mar 23, 2009)

oh tachi  <3

ehh i guess only thing to do is to seal all ascendants and above and let teh little ones circlejerk with each other until they can catch up…i mean, this is all about BAWWWing that the ones with the higher rep are abusing the system and not contributing to the forum, amirite? 

LET’S BAG ‘EM AND TAG ‘EM


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## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

Kitsune Naruto said:


> That could be solved by removing the ability of members to rep one another. As so many people stated in here, it is a useless feature. And if something is useless in your eyes, you'd rather have it removed.



Then what would people be able to purchase "prizes" with? If you mean to say that the post count+join date will determine rep, then this just means postwhoring will replace repwhoring and the forum will be overrun with spam in a bid to get a larger avatar or a name change or whatever else.


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## Kathutet (Mar 23, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> Then what would people be able to purchase "prizes" with? If you mean to say that the post count+join date will determine rep, then this just means postwhoring will replace repwhoring and the forum will be overrun with spam in a bid to get a larger avatar or a name change or whatever else.


That's true. There will be much more spamming. Either way, there will be a problem. The mods could post count slash/ban/infract members who spam excessively, though.

=/ Well, shit. I think we're fucked.


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## Uchiha-Sasuke-kun (Mar 23, 2009)

i say leave it as it is please hmph!


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## Tachikoma (Mar 23, 2009)

Senior Senior Ava

This. 

150x 220 




I don't make ava's in l x h where l = h anymore.


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## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

Kitsune Naruto said:


> That's true. There will be much more spamming. Either way, there will be a problem. *The mods could post count slash/ban/infract members who spam excessively, though.*
> 
> =/ Well, shit. I think we're fucked.


I think it was Hiroshi who earlier in the thread said that the staff get about 40 complaints about rep abuse or whoring a week. Doing the *bolded* part wouldn't solve this problem at all. It would merely replace it.

The people who get banned/infracted and so on would also have to be dealt with by the staff which further adds to their duties.


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## Taxman (Mar 23, 2009)

Kribaby said:


> I didn't realize this was so difficult to grasp. :/



makes me want to repost my tl;dr for..oh...the fourth time at least.



Fay said:


> I agree with this post.
> 
> Also, I will try to explain my problem with the second option:
> 
> ...



...um what exactly are you trying to say?

you do know that a "null" rep equates to repping someone with zero points right?  Yet, in your example, you're clearly adding +points to member two, right?  Not to mention that nulls only occur if you are in the red or you have less than 50 posts

are you slightly confused?  not rep = join date + post count...rep _power = _join date + post count

rep power currently is equal to join date + post count + rep.  The second option is removing rep from the rep power equation.

So in your example: member one would rep for 62 and neg for 31 until they got 50 more posts or spent another week on the forum which would increase their rep altering power to 63/64...and member two would rep for 13 and neg for roughly 7 until they got 50 more posts or were on the forum for another week.

They'd still be giving pos and negs....


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## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

Taxman said:


> makes me want to repost my tl;dr for..oh...the fourth time at least.



You should set it up so that it's the first post on every page.


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## Para (Mar 23, 2009)

Can I just say that only having joindate and postcount in rep-power is neither a good or fair idea, because rep is the only thing out of those three to require *other people* thinking you are a worthy poster, rather than how long ago you joined or how often you postwhore.


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## k1nj3 (Mar 23, 2009)

Let's give flowers instead of both : )


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## Taxman (Mar 23, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> I think it was Hiroshi who earlier in the thread said that the staff get about 400 complaints about rep abuse or whoring a month (or was it a week?). Doing the *bolded* part wouldn't solve this problem at all. It would merely replace it.
> 
> The people who get banned/infracted and so on would also have to be dealt with by the staff which further adds to their duties.



Well actually, we find spamming a lot easier to deal with than rep abuses.  For one, any staff member can enforce spamming rules.  Section mods can infract spammers in their section and delete the posts.  Smods coming across spammers can ban them.  Admins can slash the most serious cases.  When dealing with rep abuse, section mods are completely out of the question because they can't even look at rep pages.  Smods can only see incoming rep pages for individual members (though they do have the ability to rep seal).  They can see comments, but not if the rep was pos/neg or even the post that was repped.

So both smods and mods have to request Admins for the rep exchanges between members, the posts that were repped, outgoing rep, if they were pos or neg (if the comment is too ambiguous), etc.  

Also, coming across a rep pot takes a lot of research to see how far deep the well of whoring goes amongst a group of people.  It takes a lot more time and effort to go through pages and pages of rep comments that are mostly hidden to most members even to those of staff...in comparison to a spammer who is open to everyone even to non-staff members.


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## Taxman (Mar 23, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> You should set it up so that it's the first post on every page.



I've copied it as the second post of this thread...made me wince when that one member commented saying how he only read the OP...


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## Kalashnikov (Mar 23, 2009)

One more thing that comes to my mind (not exactly about rep, but related) - I was always wondering, why rep bars represent rep only between 1-1500. Wouldn't it be better and actually fulfilling it's function if every green/red square would be added to the bar with, say every 1000 rep points. Or even better, using square function (eg. x^2 * 100 - first square for 100 p. second for 400, third for 900 and so, or maybe x^3 * 100).
If you spend 1-2 hours per day on NF you can easily get 1500 in one-two weeks, so the result is that almost everyone has their rep bar full, which makes it usless.

*I also like how noone from the staff comments on my and some other people's idea of increasing neg power to balance out pos rep. Add to this more strict rules concerning rep whoring, gang negging and stupid rep reporting (like "he negged me only because I sad Sasuke is ghay! oh noez!!1! do sth about it!") and that will work great.*


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## Byakkö (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm back to say leave the rep system as is


If you have a problem with being negged, report it and grow some balls, this is the internet for Christ's sake


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## Darth Nihilus (Mar 23, 2009)

Byakk? said:


> I'm back to say leave the rep system as is
> 
> 
> If you have a problem with being negged, report it and grow some balls, this is the internet for Christ's sake



This should have been said long, long, long, long, long, long, long ago, since it's the truth. That and just repseal the repwhores, or those who revenge neg, etc, or permanently if if comes to it. So far, I have no problem with the current system as it is.


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## Felix (Mar 23, 2009)

Kalashnikov said:


> *One more thing that comes to my mind (not exactly about rep, but related) - I was always wondering, why rep bars represent rep only between 1-1500. Wouldn't it be better and actually fulfilling it's function if every green/red square would be added to the bar with, say every 1000 rep points. Or even better, using square function (eg. x^2 * 100 - first square for 100 p. second for 400, third for 900 and so, or maybe x^3 * 100).
> If you spend 1-2 hours per day on NF you can easily get 1500 in one-two weeks, so the result is that almost everyone has their rep bar full, which makes it usless.*
> 
> *I also like how noone from the staff comments on my and some other people's idea of increasing neg power to balance out pos rep. Add to this more strict rules concerning rep whoring, gang negging and stupid rep reporting (like "he negged me only because I sad Sasuke is ghay! oh noez!!1! do sth about it!") and that will work great.*



This. Seriously, maxing out at 1500 makes no sense


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## Almaseti (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't think negs should be removed because some people like having red bars, and sometimes it's actually useful to neg someone when they're being out of line.  I'll admit that the users who care about rep are probably not the same as the ones who troll, but I don't really like the idea of the change.


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## mootz (Mar 23, 2009)

Keep it the same please


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## Taxman (Mar 23, 2009)

> One more thing that comes to my mind (not exactly about rep, but related) - I was always wondering, why rep bars represent rep only between 1-1500. Wouldn't it be better and actually fulfilling it's function if every green/red square would be added to the bar with, say every 1000 rep points. Or even better, using square function (eg. x^2 * 100 - first square for 100 p. second for 400, third for 900 and so, or maybe x^3 * 100).
> If you spend 1-2 hours per day on NF you can easily get 1500 in one-two weeks, so the result is that almost everyone has their rep bar full, which makes it usless.
> 
> *I also like how noone from the staff comments on my and some other people's idea of increasing neg power to balance out pos rep. Add to this more strict rules concerning rep whoring, gang negging and stupid rep reporting (like "he negged me only because I sad Sasuke is ghay! oh noez!!1! do sth about it!") and that will work great.*



OMG you called sasuke gay ...but really, he is

anyway, I'm sorry that I'm not commenting on your ideas.  I've been mainly commenting on people's misinterpretation of what the options presented are saying and the reasoning behind this thread.

I am keeping tabs on ideas...though I don't have a full-fledged opinion that I'd stand behind on most of the ideas being presented right now...I just have a few first impressions.

*see making your point bold helps, eh?*

I've already commented on how I thought it was weird that neg was a half of pos, but I don't know how making it "even" really fixes the general problem (or at least the "problem" in staff member's minds)...newbies can neg for more, but so can long standing members everything is still proportional, yet we could go back to the days where a single neg to a newbie takes them down to a full red bar.  Not to mention I don't even know if it's possible for us to make negs equal to pos reps.  I don't have that capability...maybe Gooba does...if not, we're looking for possible solutions that don't require us to somehow flag down the sadmins.

Thus why some of the suggestions _are not_ being commented on...they're just not feasible given our current powers.

As for the bars actually representing rep fairly, again, if goobs doesn't have that ability, then only the sadmins can do it.

I've never been a big fan of the "prize" idea...I've seen the idea brought up in Q&C before...just never really cared for it based on the idea that it'd cause people to "repwhore" more so that they can get all those nifty bigger avys and sparkley names and custom titles and what have you....really just undermines the contests IMO.

I know I'm going to have to read Cirus' post about changing the rules around, but I have a good idea what he said since he's been saying that stuff for months.


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## Tachikoma (Mar 23, 2009)

Naruto is gayer imo.


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## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

Taxman said:


> Well actually, we find spamming a lot easier to deal with than rep abuses.  For one, any staff member can enforce spamming rules.  Section mods can infract spammers in their section and delete the posts.  Smods coming across spammers can ban them.  Admins can slash the most serious cases.  When dealing with rep abuse, section mods are completely out of the question because they can't even look at rep pages.  Smods can only see incoming rep pages for individual members (though they do have the ability to rep seal).  They can see comments, but not if the rep was pos/neg or even the post that was repped.
> 
> So both smods and mods have to request Admins for the rep exchanges between members, the posts that were repped, outgoing rep, if they were pos or neg (if the comment is too ambiguous), etc.
> 
> Also, coming across a rep pot takes a lot of research to see how far deep the well of whoring goes amongst a group of people.  It takes a lot more time and effort to go through pages and pages of rep comments that are mostly hidden to most members even to those of staff...in comparison to a spammer who is open to everyone even to non-staff members.



It is easy to deal with but it is also a lot more obvious to everyone as it is in the open as opposed to behind the scenes. Even though spam can be dealt with by any of the mods - some only in their sections - it also has a bigger impact on the board as a whole. Blatant spamming can also lead to flaming in the open and will bring in more people than are initially involved. Again, as you said, this can be dealt with quicker but it still replaces one problem with the other.

It is less work for you lot, who I understand work very hard anyway especially when it comes to rep and IP related matters, but it works to have a nicer, cleaner atmosphere for everyone not involved directly with the goings on.


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## Jαmes (Mar 23, 2009)

since you mods have this problem about rep complaints, perhaps you can assemble a workforce that deals with them primarily i.e. cater reports and complaints and look into them, execute appropriate actions, help educate the members (especially the new ones) about the implications and repercussions of rep abuse, etc... they don't have to have other mod powers like trashing/locking/moving threads and those other things they do. 5 or so active people could deal with those rep complaints well... eventually the rep abusers would all (well a lot) end up slashed/sealed/flipped for as long as justified and things can be regulated... they'll sorta be like enforcers...


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## E (Mar 23, 2009)

we should have a seminar


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## Nakiro (Mar 23, 2009)

You can also make people spend some of their rep to give to other people. 

If one person has 100 and he reps someone and it gives them 10 point, but in exchange you lose 5. This would also work great for neg reps. People would pay to neg rep people. 

In the end best solution is to get rid of the whole rep system as everyone has a full bar, and if you don't you can easily aquire it within a week.

Then you have some people that just say stupid things in threads and get positive rep because of their friends and because they argue the "other" side with fanboyish comments. Kinda like Sasuke Bateman and Shinigami_Perv91. Where as people who actually contribute to serious discussions don't get the same luxury. 

Like I mentioned in previous post, would get rid of your troubles with reporting and rep-whoring as well.


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## Sunuvmann (Mar 23, 2009)

> When dealing with rep abuse, section mods are completely out of the question because they can't even look at rep pages


I thought they could. 

Zaru did all the time...


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## Iria (Mar 23, 2009)

How did Zaru look at rep pages...I could never do that shit


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## busterbob143 (Mar 23, 2009)

in my opinion keep everything the way it is. If you remove neg repping then no one will realize the consquences they are doing. its absolutly ridiculous.

as for the second to much controversy.


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## Smoke (Mar 23, 2009)

It's simple...







_Kill_ the batman


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## Zaru (Mar 23, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> I thought they could.
> 
> Zaru did all the time...





Phoenix said:


> How did Zaru look at rep pages...I could never do that shit



Wat. I could only see people's amount in their modcp profile, just like you


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## Iria (Mar 23, 2009)

See? This is how vicious rumors get started.


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## Ennoea (Mar 23, 2009)

Is rep still serious business for anyone other than noobs?


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 23, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> Two things:
> 
> It was already stated that if the third option was added we know that it would be the one voted on the most which is why it wasn't added in the first place.
> The sub-forum in which it was placed makes poll biased as only a select few who visit the section are going to vote.


1. Exactly. You force us to choose lesser evil. Bullshit, it's a bad idea. "Kill the priest or the rabin?" Extreme example, but you get the idea. Rep system is for people, for community, and most of the community like it the way it is now, despite being flawed. If someone reports rep abuse, or you come across rep abuse, just disable their reputation! And if they did it multiple times, do it pernamently. 
2. I personally never visit Konoha Plaza. I stick to TVs, Libraries, Bathhouse and Fanarts. I entered that poll via this thread. Others will do too.

//HbS


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## Anjo (Mar 23, 2009)

i think that the MODs are doing something productive for a change.


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## Uchiha Ryken (Mar 23, 2009)

Seems that removing the effect current rep has on dealing it out makes it all about who has higher post counts, which doesn't need any more incentive as it is, because anyone on an internet forum is already acutely aware of how much pull post counts can get a member.


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## Zapdos (Mar 23, 2009)

I think how this thread has gone on for 38 pages and counting shows just how much of a joke the rep system is and how if something is going to get done it should be the removal of it.


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## j e s s i e (Mar 23, 2009)

I, for one, think removing neg reps is a wonderful idea.

All too often have I seen the neg function used in situations that simple don't _call_ for it. I have once been negged because somebody didn't like a song that I said in the "What are you currently listening to?" thread. Instances like these make me sincerely disappointed at the level low level of maturity and control that some members display.

If there really was a totally neg-worthy post, displaying misconduct or spam of any kind, I'd entrust the mods to take care of it. But if people neg because of a shallow difference in opinions, I do not believe the function should exist at all.

Let one's reputation be determined by the good that they do -- a measure of not one's superiority or popularity, but by how respected they are as a member.

*P.S.* Following what another member has said, this is also the first forum I've been on that even has a rep system at all. And plainly put, I've seen it cause more of a fuss than it was made out to do.


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## saprobe (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't think I've ever neg repped anyone but that said, I think it should be left in place. Why? Because, as others have said, if you don't give people that option they're just going to flame in the offending thread and bother the shit out of everyone else.

Maybe you could leave the neg rep option but remove its effect on the reputation score. That way people could leave their comments.

The rep system can be abused but I think that, in general, it's useful.

Also, ranks are fun. Don't get rid of them.


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## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 23, 2009)

Phoenix said:


> See? This is how vicious rumors get started.



No wonder with Zaru and rep in the same quote


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## SAFFF (Mar 23, 2009)

i go with option 2 but i really like the rep system the way it is.  broken, yes but i like it the way it is. change is terrible. it will only introduce more problems. even if the original plan of changing it was to reduce said bitching.


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## Denizen (Mar 23, 2009)

Removing Neg Rep has the risk of derailing threads. Even with Conversations and PMs, it's easier just to leave a Red Rep mark explaining why the user has been such an idiot. Numbers have never entered my mind at all. Whenever I rep someone, it's to leave a comment about their goodness/badness, nothing else comes into it.

Considering the alternative is a complete overhaul, then obviously I would go for that. Personally my biggest desire in a new reputation system is a much more obvious gap between newbies, regulars and longtime members. Yadda yadda yadda inequality repwhores etc - I don't see the point of rep if the results aren't obvious.


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## killer455 (Mar 23, 2009)

neg repping breeds revenge negging

revenge negging mutates into gangstaZ negginZ warZ drive-bys

gangstaZ negginZ warZ get shot with bannnings

bannings restart the cycle once again after healing


"do the math"


----------



## son_michael (Mar 23, 2009)

The neg system is abused and the mods dont do anything about it. There should be consequences for abusing someone with negs,every complaint should be looked into but the mods dont do this. Several times I tried to pm Admins or super mods and I never even got a reply and that is truly pathetic{I also tried reporting}. I'm thankful that the regular mods actually listen and try to help the members,unfortunatley they have no control over the rep system...


I read this thread and people say neg rep is needed to warn people who are being jackasses,they further say that neg repping doesn't take alot of rep.....the problem is when your negged by someone who ascendant or above your losing 200+rep per neg and these people negging you for trivial reasons. Furthermore these guys are so high and mighty they will never +rep you unless you do something amazing or post porn or something.So were in a situation were the people that do +rep you are only giving you like 50 to 100+rep and then all that +more is being taken away from a single neg by someone who negs for the wrong reasons...and unfortunatley most celestial/ascendant users do neg for those reasons 



Negs should be given to flamers and people that flat out insult you. However that's not what there used for...pretty much every neg ive gotten is because my opinion was different or because someone thought that my actions were stupid.



The system sucks


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## killer455 (Mar 23, 2009)

son_michael said:


> these guys are so high and mighty they will never +rep you unless you do something amazing or post porn or something.



that's the "your mileage may vary" courtesy of the GB joke FC

the vicious joking and joke flaming of these guys is the most arrogant thing ever invented on internet's american-anime-fandom, i swear.

OBD and GB people are without question the most extremely arrogant groupies.

in terms of outlandishly arrogant rep-defense posts and threads, jokish contempts and flames the UG groups look like a well-intented boy-girlscouts in comparison.

anything from YAMATO WooD's goofed-up, spactic expression turn-arounds

to the common held hypocrisy believe of UCHIHA= SHIT hypocrisies

(because their favored chinese-styled mascots are not getting any more meaningful and epic screen-time, because the darkish deeply-japanese bishie players are such annoying polarising spotlight thief)

OBD, GB and UG...and all alike most cease to exist, only then peace will come


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## Xion (Mar 23, 2009)

Elk said:


> i think that the MODs are doing something productive for a change.





Bullitt said:


> I think how this thread has gone on for 38 pages and counting shows just how much of a joke the rep system is and how if something is going to get done it should be the removal of it.





j e s s i e said:


> I, for one, think removing neg reps is a wonderful idea.
> 
> All too often have I seen the neg function used in situations that simple don't _call_ for it. I have once been negged because somebody didn't like a song that I said in the "What are you currently listening to?" thread. Instances like these make me sincerely disappointed at the level low level of maturity and control that some members display.
> 
> ...



Well of course all the noobies/dupes/kids want it revamped/removed given that they are the ones getting pissed on all the time.

Learn to live with it kiddies! I had to go through it, now you do too.

This whole idea is really stupid.


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## Mider T (Mar 23, 2009)

son_michael said:


> The neg system is abused and the mods dont do anything about it. There should be consequences for abusing someone with negs,every complaint should be looked into but the mods dont do this. Several times I tried to pm Admins or super mods and I never even got a reply and that is truly pathetic{I also tried reporting}. I'm thankful that the regular mods actually listen and try to help the members,unfortunatley they have no control over the rep system...
> 
> 
> I read this thread and people say neg rep is needed to warn people who are being jackasses,they further say that neg repping doesn't take alot of rep.....the problem is when your negged by someone who ascendant or above your losing 200+rep per neg and these people negging you for trivial reasons. Furthermore these guys are so high and mighty they will never +rep you unless you do something amazing or post porn or something.So were in a situation were the people that do +rep you are only giving you like 50 to 100+rep and then all that +more is being taken away from a single neg by someone who negs for the wrong reasons...and unfortunatley most celestial/ascendant users do neg for those reasons
> ...



I wouldn't rep what I can't even read.


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## Lord of Fire (Mar 23, 2009)

lets me just point out most of the people on this thread have pos rep so stop complaining i have red all across becuz of theses rep whores


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## DwarfKing (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't see the point of making a topic about this . Being repped green or red is the same for me ( i'm not talking about myself , i'm a noob , i'm talking in general ) , even if you think the rep sistem might separate active/old users from the new ones , the bottom line why do you people even put price on rep , it's a freaking green bar , it's not gonna make you thing larger and it's not gonna turn into money .


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## Fay (Mar 23, 2009)

Taxman said:


> makes me want to repost my tl;dr for..oh...the fourth time at least.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm..so what you're saying is the following:

Someone can rep for joindate+postcount. 
So, if that person reps someone else, the other person gets reppoints right?
This would mean that the person's reputation would rise.
Afterall the person's rep would now be: joindate+postcount*+the rep he got from someone else*.

However, that person can only rep for joindate+postcount, because rep doesn't count.
Meaning that the rep he got, has no influence on his reppower, so is actually a nullrep.

Do you understand what I'm saying now?


----------



## Mider T (Mar 23, 2009)

Fay said:


> Hmm..so what you're saying is the following:
> 
> Someone can rep for joindate+postcount.
> So, if that person reps someone else, the other person gets reppoints right?
> ...



You've got it wrong, it already does take rep into account.  1,000 rep points = 1 point of rep power, it's in the FAQ.  When I joined it was 100 points = 1 point, so it was serious inflation going on.

Might want to read the FAQ or ask certain people on reponomics.  Kyasurin Yakuto even has a calculator to determine your repping power.


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## Hiroshi (Mar 23, 2009)

Fay said:


> Someone can rep for joindate+postcount.
> So, if that person reps someone else, the other person gets reppoints right?
> This would mean that the person's reputation would rise.
> Afterall the person's rep would now be: joindate+postcount*+the rep he got from someone else*.
> ...


I think you got it. Essentially the 'rep' in rep power is removed. I wouldn't call it null rep though, because null rep means that the amt. you just got repped for (a combination of the repper's post count and join date formula) isn't null.

[edit]
Am I misunderstanding too Mider? We're talking about Option 2, no?


----------



## killer455 (Mar 23, 2009)

Xion said:


> Well of course all the noobies/dupes/kids want it revamped/removed given that they are the ones getting pissed on all the time.




[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVq6fvqBfZM&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

get the idea?



Xion said:


> Learn to live with it kiddies!



then don't be upset or surprised that the puppy bites back


----------



## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

Mider T said:


> You've got it wrong, it already does take rep into account.  1,000 rep points = 1 point of rep power, it's in the FAQ.  When I joined it was 100 points = 1 point, so it was serious inflation going on.
> 
> Might want to read the FAQ or ask certain people on reponomics.  Kyasurin Yakuto even has a calculator to determine your repping power.





Hiroshi said:


> I think you got it. Essentially the 'rep' in rep power is removed. I wouldn't call it null rep though, because null rep means that the amt. you just got repped for (a combination of the repper's post count and join date formula) isn't null.
> 
> [edit]
> Am I misunderstanding too Mider? We're talking about Option 2, no?



Hiroshi, I think you got it right.


----------



## Fay (Mar 23, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I think you got it. Essentially the 'rep' in rep power is removed. I wouldn't call it null rep though, because null rep means that the amt. you just got repped for (a combination of the repper's post count and join date formula) isn't null.
> 
> [edit]
> Am I misunderstanding too Mider? We're talking about Option 2, no?



Yes, I'm talking about the second option.

Well, it isn't exactly a null, but it does work like a null though. 
Your rep can raise because of the rep you get from people, sure. In the end however, it has no influence on your reppower, meaning that the rep does work like a null.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 23, 2009)

Fay said:


> Yes, I'm talking about the second option.
> 
> Well, it isn't exactly a null, but it does work like a null though.
> Your rep can raise because of the rep you get from people, sure. In the end however, it has no influence on your reppower, meaning that the rep does work like a null.



Oh sorry, I misunderstood what you were trying to say.
I disagree with your idea because this way is better, there's no advantage to what you're suggesting.

The only thing that needs to change is nulls being turned into negs or reps after they've already happened when that person obtains the power.


----------



## Monark (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, if option 2 is implemented, the Blender is going to be flooded, because rep power will be limited to posts and join date, and you can't make the latter increase. Then the Blenderites are going to take issue, because the quality of the Blender will plummet. Then you could be forced to change the posting rules in the Blender or even remove it completely because of all of the complaints. 

It isn't going to be simple, like flipping a switch. There are going to be problems that arise from solving prior problems, and the end result may wind up being worse than the initial problem.


EDIT: Lol, nevermind. I misread the OP. I thought it said post count would be enabled in Blender, but it's the ability to rep. Sorry.


----------



## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

Fay said:


> Yes, I'm talking about the second option.
> 
> Well, it isn't exactly a null, but it does work like a null though.
> Your rep can raise because of the rep you get from people, sure. In the end however, it has no influence on your reppower, meaning that the rep does work like a null.



Take away the rep altering power and rep is still rep as it is meant. It is your reputation, it is how you are seen by others on NF and that is the whole point of it.

The truth is, the rep altering power of rep is more of an extra when you take the idea of rep into account.



Malmsey said:


> Well, if option 2 is implemented, the Blender is going to be flooded, because rep power will be limited to posts and join date, and you can't make the latter increase. Then the Blenderites are going to take issue, because the quality of the Blender will plummet. Then you could be forced to change the posting rules in the Blender or even remove it completely because of all of the complaints.
> 
> It isn't going to be simple, like flipping a switch. There are going to be problems that arise from solving prior problems, and the end result may wind up being worse than the initial problem.



I'm pretty sure post-count is disabled in the Blender.


----------



## Fay (Mar 23, 2009)

Mider T said:


> Oh sorry, I misunderstood what you were trying to say.
> I disagree with your idea because this way is better, there's no advantage to what you're suggesting.
> 
> The only thing that needs to change is nulls being turned into negs or reps after they've already happened when that person obtains the power.



What?

It's not my idea, it's what the second option actually *means*. 

People are just reading that option without understanding what it actually means.
It means that repping someone will be equal to "null-repping".


----------



## Monark (Mar 23, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> Take away the rep altering power and rep is still rep as it is meant. It is your reputaion, it is how you are seen by others on NF and that is the whole point of it.
> 
> The truth is, the rep altering power of rep is more of an extra when you take the idea of rep into account.
> 
> ...



LOL I know. I just reread the OP, and edited my post.


----------



## Umnicus (Mar 23, 2009)

killer455 said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVq6fvqBfZM&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> get the idea[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKlBjbxeaTA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]?
> 
> ...



Posts like this one are, imo, one of the best reasons for the neg option to even be there in the first place...

On a serious note though, to not be able to neg rep posts such as those of guys like Diamed wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.
Harsher penalties for those who abuse the rep system would probably be a far better option than the ones suggested in the poll, I'd say.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 23, 2009)

Fay said:


> What?
> 
> It's not my idea, it's what the second option actually *means*.
> 
> ...



I didn't know that was the full extent, I thought it was just no ranks after 100K.

Still a bad idea.


----------



## Last Shadow (Mar 23, 2009)

I've got a bad feeling about this...

I prefer the second option. 100K is still a lot of rep, and it negates the effectiveness of Neg Falcon Punches to newbies. The first option doesn't make too much sense to me, as negs generally go to people who deserve them, like trolls, etc. 

Plus, seeing someone's bar in deep red lets me know what kind of poster they are, and acts as a guide.

Then again, I never really got too much into the whole rep thing. Back when I was new, I'd rep people, leave a nice reply and hope for some green in return, but now, it's just kind of...meh.

Plus, many est le sans pareil/Transcendent members don't earn it; I.E. come from fanclubs, friends that rep each other for no reason. For instance, the "Professor Alchemy 1234" or whatever was well in red for good reason. He was a biased troll, everyone knew it and few liked him. He specifically said that he'd post again once he built up enough green after coming back from his fanclub. 

Sure, aside from the props that the rep gets, there is no other benefit, but the fact is that rep is a system that definetly needs tweaking, one way or the other. 

And despite the whores/abusers, there are genuine members that write beautifully crafted essays, or make incredible fanart, or translate a tricky chapter that truly do deserve the rep. But there's got to be a better way than there is right now. 

Now, back to mah sandwich.... Peace.


----------



## God Hand (Mar 23, 2009)

j e s s i e said:


> Instances like these make me sincerely disappointed at the level low level of maturity and control that some members display.




*"Maturity"!!!?????* 

This is a forum for *Naruto*, a fuckin Shounen series, its designed for 12 year olds.  Im amazed at all the maturity we do have here.

For postin such dumb shit Im totally gonna neg you  :toliet


*Spoiler*: __ 



  jk


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## Springlake (Mar 23, 2009)

Blender going to be flooded?

More like opposite since posts in there doesn't count towards your post count.


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## killer455 (Mar 23, 2009)

Umnicus said:


> Posts like this one are, imo, one of the best reasons for the neg option to even be there in the first place...
> 
> On a serious note though, to not be able to neg rep posts such as those of guys like Diamed wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.
> Harsher penalties for those who abuse the rep system would probably be a far better option than the ones suggested in the poll, I'd say.



you have modified my post out of context Mister George.W.Bush.


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## Umnicus (Mar 23, 2009)

killer455 said:


> you have modified my post out of context Mister George.W.Bush.



Well, you should definitely neg me, then... Trust me, it will make you feel better.

And to be fair, you did totally exaggerate the situation, and you also seemed more buttheart than anything else, tbqh.

I personally do know that when I neg, it's because a person completely deserved it, and I wouldn't like it if that right was taken away just because some dimwits choose to abuse the system.

Wonder if this post will get deleted?

A prime example of a neg-worthy poster: THIS USERNAME IS UNIQUE .


----------



## Harley (Mar 23, 2009)

I've still yet to see a good reason why we need neg rep. If someone's post is breaking the rules its gonna get deleted and that person will get banned or warned. If someone's post is just stupid, get over it not everyone has the same intelligence as you do and punishing someone for being stupid is stupid. If someone disagrees with you on a subject I know at first your brain might freeze because you can't comprehend the fact that there are people out there who think differently but moments later you will neg rep leave some comment that is completely irrelevant and you'll go back to stroking your e-peen thinking that you've actually accomplished something.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Mar 23, 2009)

Lord of Fire said:


> lets me just point out most of the people on this thread have pos rep so stop complaining i have red all across becuz of theses rep whores


Have you ever though of the option.... where you actually deserved all those neg reps?

//HbS


----------



## Monark (Mar 23, 2009)

Springlake said:


> Blender going to be flooded?
> 
> More like opposite since posts in there doesn't count towards your post count.



Yes I know that, I misread the OP. I already rectified my mistake.


----------



## Cirus (Mar 23, 2009)

I make this post because it seems that people are starting to take it into ways of how groups are going to act and how those groups are going to be butthurt over such.

The reputation adjustment needs to be done because it is becomming a onesided affair on the forums.  Forcing people to join factions or forever wallow in obscuraty.  Dispite how alot of people don't want the rep changed those very same people (a vast majority of them anyway) claim they don't care about their rep.  How is that possible?  You can't care about your rep and not want the system changed unless you really do care about your rep.

Anyways.  The system does need to be changed.  It does not adiquatly show who is a contributing member or not to the forum.  Nor does it show how a member acts on the forum.  Which is why it is flawed.  That is also why it is needed to be changed.  Not because factions have all the rep power on the boards and can be construde as bullies, and not because members don't contribute, but rather do to the fact that contributing members don't get the credit they diserve.

I have seen many members across the forum who make some rather good posts that should be at a higher rep then what they are at, but they don't because they don't wank in a FC, or wank off someones ego.  It is for those people that the system should be overhauled.  People can't adiquatly voice their opinions on characters because of fear.  Yes I said it.  Fear.  People on this board are afraid to get a neg for a stupid reason.  Not for being an ass or a troll, but because someone just happens to think their posts are stupid.

Once the system gets overhauled those very people will be able to show what they think and fully contribute to the forums like they want and not have to constantly question themselves on how many people will think differently.  Adiquate representation is what is needed here and what is being talked about.  Not groups or factions.  Those who bring up the groups or factions are only looking out for themselves and the so called power they don't want to lose.  Heck if those groups truely had power then this whole thread wouldn't have been made and we wouldn't be here now.


----------



## Hagen (Mar 23, 2009)

Getting rid of the whole rep system would be even better. Seriously. It sucks


----------



## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

*A note for all of the people who say that the rep bar does not reflect adequately how people are viewed on the forum.*

The reason for this is mainly because the rep bar is full of either red or green after what I believe is only 1500 points.

This isn't an ideal system of course seeing as a troll/spammer can act like an idiot and have a full green bar after they get a few pos reps here and there. I know many trolls and spammers who have full green bars.

This has been brought up many times in the Complaints and Suggestions section and Taxman has already answered that a few times within this thread. The only way to rectify this is to assign the green or red rep squares to a different number to what they are currently assigned to and apparently the only people that can do that are Gooba (it isn't certain if he has the necessary powers either seeing as it may affect the forum skin settings and that is purely a SAdmin area) and/or mbxx and tazmo.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 23, 2009)

Cirus said:


> I make this post because it seems that people are starting to take it into ways of how groups are going to act and how those groups are going to be butthurt over such.
> 
> The reputation adjustment needs to be done because it is becomming a onesided affair on the forums.  Forcing people to join factions or forever wallow in obscuraty.  Dispite how alot of people don't want the rep changed those very same people (a vast majority of them anyway) claim they don't care about their rep.  How is that possible?  You can't care about your rep and not want the system changed unless you really do care about your rep.
> 
> ...



Yeah. That's also why some groups or FCs become so powerful. It's because most people are too afraid to say anything negative about them because a lot of people are scared of being totally negged out and I can understand why people would feel that way if they are like Luminary or something and take 2 months to gain 5k or whatever when those groups can neg you out of that in like a day.


----------



## Umnicus (Mar 23, 2009)

I truly don't get it... Those who are against neg reps, should in my view, has a matter of principle, be against pos reps, too. They should hence just ask a mod to disable their reputations. The people who believe in this rep system and make good use of it, shouldn't be penalized because of those who abuse it. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, tighter rules(concerning reps) and harsher punishments for rep "offenders" () would be a far better solution.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 23, 2009)

well, if it gets changed, at least rename the 100k to pierce heavens so 


or let the members above 100k name their own rank


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## Vanity (Mar 23, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> well, if it gets changed, at least rename the 100k to pierce heavens so



Hopefully it still wouldn't have the word 'he' in it. :S I wouldn't want to be refered to as a male for the rest of time.


----------



## Cirus (Mar 23, 2009)

Umnicus said:


> I truly don't get it... Those who are against neg reps, should in my view, has a matter of principle, be against pos reps, too. They should hence just ask a mod to disable their reputations. The people who believe in this rep system and make good use of it, shouldn't be penalized because of those who abuse it. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, tighter rules and harsher punishments for rep "offenders" () would be a far better solution.


Thats what I am originally for and I would rather have done. Though in order to do such things the staff would have to clarify the rules to a point that their ability to have discretion on matter would go away for determining if a rep crime has occured or not. Meaning they lose some power, and I don't think they will want to do such. So the easiest way for them to fix the system without them haveing to give up any power is to change the system to where rep doesn't count.

If you go back a few pages Taxman made a post that I think is very interesting. Which is something I think you should read.
*Does Natural Energy Promote Longevity?*


----------



## Umnicus (Mar 23, 2009)

^^Yes, an interesting read indeed. Most people will probably get all TL;DR about the post in question, though...


*Spoiler*: __ 





> *Originally Posted by Taxman:*
> 
> It looks like I'm going to need to explain a few things....
> 
> ...


----------



## Hagen (Mar 23, 2009)

Umnicus said:


> The people who believe in this rep system *and make good use of it,*


 

that usually translates to "repwhoring with your friends and neg everyone that disagrees with you in anything" 

The rep system should die, the forum would be better without it imo. other boards i post in dont have this crap and i enjoy them as much or more  

I could live without all the people whining and derailing threads because a neg they received etc. but if i have to pick an option, i'd say they should remove negging. It'd be interesting how all the neggers with high rep that feel so full of themselves, would react when they feel their e-penis castrated

Personally, i never neg. i just revenge-neg btw


----------



## Harley (Mar 23, 2009)

Cirus said:


> I make this post because it seems that people are starting to take it into ways of how groups are going to act and how those groups are going to be butthurt over such.
> 
> The reputation adjustment needs to be done because it is becomming a onesided affair on the forums.  Forcing people to join factions or forever wallow in obscuraty.  Dispite how alot of people don't want the rep changed those very same people (a vast majority of them anyway) claim they don't care about their rep.  How is that possible?  You can't care about your rep and not want the system changed unless you really do care about your rep.
> 
> ...



Agreed, this is exactly what I think actually. The system was made to show who is a good poster and obviously its not working cause you can be considered a "good poster" if you just go wank off in FCs or Blender.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 23, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Hopefully it still wouldn't have the word 'he' in it. :S I wouldn't want to be refered to as a male for the rest of time.



i would like if we could name our own rank though 

but well, i hope it will not change in the first place z.z, i am totally against it


----------



## Vanity (Mar 23, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> i would like if we could name our own rank though
> 
> but well, i hope it will not change in the first place z.z, i am totally against it



Oh yeah that would be pretty cool actually....once you max out at 500 or whatever they set the limit at, you can name your own rank!

That's actually pretty cool and actually takes away from the whole 'elite' thing since everyone would just have these totally different random titles that they put in themselves. So it wouldn't really even mean anything.


----------



## scerpers (Mar 23, 2009)

Every time somebody rep's me, I instantly have to go to the academy section to neg a noob to see how much it affects him.

It makes me happy.


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 23, 2009)

The people who are against neg repping are being pretty hypocritical if they're for pos repping. Seems to me like those people are quite happy to be praised when they do things that people like but as can't take someone not liking what they say.  

If they're for removing neg repping or even removing the whole system why do they even have their rep enabled? Because they really want to have high rep but because they don't have it they would rather take it away from the people that do. Y

Yes you can say things like "I don't care about rep, it's pointless lol", but you still have your rep enabled for a reason kid, if you really didn't care you would disable your rep and that'd be that.

And before anyone says "I'm only against removing negs because I get mean messages", well that's what the mods are for. If you get flamed use the system and report it, don't cry and say the whole system should be removed just because someone doesn't like you.


----------



## Umnicus (Mar 23, 2009)

Locard said:


> that usually translates to "repwhoring with your friends and neg everyone that disagrees with you in anything"
> 
> The rep system should die, the forum would be better without it imo. other boards i post in dont have this crap and i enjoy them as much or more
> 
> ...



Well, what I really meant by "making good use of it"(and I suppose you got my point), was people actually reserving the negs for the trolls, people who flame, and individuals who act in a generally disrespectful manner, while also using the pos reps to reward good posts or interesting threads, exclusively. The flaw doesn't lie within the system itself, but rather within some of the people here, who choose to use the rep system for territorial pissings and stuff like that. Penalize those guys, not the people who use the rep system for its intended purpose, dammit!

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Memos (Mar 23, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Oh yeah that would be pretty cool actually....once you max out at 500 or whatever they set the limit at, you can name your own rank!
> 
> That's actually pretty cool and actually takes away from the whole 'elite' thing since everyone would just have these totally different random titles that they put in themselves. So it wouldn't really even mean anything.



So basically it would be like the custom user title.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 23, 2009)

Its a bunch of little different color'd squares under your post count


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO monumental changes going on here


----------



## Vanity (Mar 23, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> So basically it would be like the custom user title.



Yeah but it would be cooler. XD


----------



## killer455 (Mar 23, 2009)

Taleran said:


> Its a bunch of little different color'd squares under your post count
> 
> 
> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO monumental changes going on here





i love that arrogant face of yours


----------



## E (Mar 23, 2009)

Scorpion said:


> Every time somebody rep's me, I instantly have to go to the academy section to neg a noob to see how much it affects him.
> 
> It makes me happy.


i know what chuu mean 
knocking out green blocks or even moving them into the red


feels soooo good man 


you know that feeling after you take a huuuuge dump?

just liek that


----------



## Remyx (Mar 23, 2009)

I honestly don't see why people make a big deal over rep at all...


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Mar 23, 2009)

Roka said:


> The people who are against neg repping are being pretty hypocritical if they're for pos repping. Seems to me like those people are quite happy to be praised when they do things that people like but as can't take someone not liking what they say.
> 
> If they're for removing neg repping or even removing the whole system why do they even have their rep enabled? Because they really want to have high rep but because they don't have it they would rather take it away from the people that do. Y
> 
> ...



^ this


----------



## Hagen (Mar 23, 2009)

Roka said:


> The people who are against neg repping are being pretty hypocritical if they're for pos repping. Seems to me like those people are quite happy to be praised when they do things that people like but as can't take someone not liking what they say.
> 
> If they're for removing neg repping or even removing the whole system why do they even have their rep enabled? Because they really want to have high rep but because they don't have it they would rather take it away from the people that do. Y


Disabling your rep doesnt work, because not liking the rep system is an extremely complex concept that a repwhore simply cant understand

If you disable your rep you'll have a lot of repwhores sharing your "im better than you" bs attitude (calling people kids and all), posting comments like "why would we listen to you, show us your rep first" "lol, dont listen to him. i bet he's a troll and his rep is black because he's been negged to hell!"
etc etc

In this specific case, i have my rep enabled so repwhores dont assume im against negs or the system because i've bad rep, which they would automatically do (like i said. not liking rep =  extremely complex concept)  

dont be confused. I CARE about the rep system. In not indifferent to it. I care a lot. In the sense that it *bothers* me. That *annoys* me. That i'd be glad if dissapears. capice?


----------



## Felt (Mar 23, 2009)

I think this is all a big distraction and pek is currently stealing money from orphans while we squabble.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 23, 2009)

Hollie said:


> I think this is all a big distraction and pek is currently stealing money from orphans while we squabble.








Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Oh yeah that would be pretty cool actually....once you max out at 500 or whatever they set the limit at, you can name your own rank!
> 
> That's actually pretty cool and actually takes away from the whole 'elite' thing since everyone would just have these totally different random titles that they put in themselves. So it wouldn't really even mean anything.



yup


and it would be funny


ppl would just know that u passed the limit but now how much


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Mar 23, 2009)

Locard said:
			
		

> If you disable your rep you'll have a lot of repwhores sharing your "im better than you" bs attitude (calling people kids and all), posting comments like "why would we listen to you, show us your rep first" "lol, dont listen to him. i bet he's a troll and his rep is black because he's been negged to hell!"
> etc etc



 

That's happened here? I have not seen this. 



			
				Locard said:
			
		

> In this specific case, i have my rep enabled so repwhores dont assume im against negs or the system because i've bad rep, which they would automatically do (like i said. not liking rep = extremely complex concept)



They could more than likely assume the same even if you didn't have your rep enabled.


----------



## Toby (Mar 23, 2009)

*Just to reiterate, this poll was for users to air their opinions. Not to go apeshit while you're at it.*

As Umnicus wrote in this quoted post, neg-rep is intended for trolls and other ills, but is abused by certain individuals:


*Spoiler*: __ 






Umnicus said:


> Well, what I really meant by "making good use of it"(and I suppose you got my point), was people actually reserving the negs for the trolls, people who flame, and individuals who act in a generally disrespectful manner, while also using the pos reps to reward good posts or interesting threads, exclusively. The flaw doesn't lie within the system itself, but rather within some of the people here, who choose to use the rep system for territorial pissings and stuff like that. Penalize those guys, not the people who use the rep system for its intended purpose, dammit!
> 
> *Spoiler*: __







The only response I have is that you cannot reform the system without making some winners and some losers out of people on this board. You cannot.

To the nay-sayers, don't tell people to switch off their rep just because they don't like neg-rep. If they want to remove the option, they have a right to say so. The only people I know who disabled rep did so because it is a hassle to them and causes drama. It actually does require effort to switch it off. No choice is simple when it comes to rep, seeing as everyone has it. 

Switching it off doesn't make it go away. 

And don't be paranoid about people's assumptions surrounding your or anyone else's rep. There's so much diversity in this thread we can't lump all users under one policy-reform. There will be winners and losers at the end of the day depending on what decision is made.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 23, 2009)

what about give everybody the same rep power 



it would be more just than base it on postcount and join date


----------



## syrup (Mar 23, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> what about give everybody the same rep power
> 
> 
> 
> it would be more just than base it on postcount and join date



then there is no benefit to being here longer and i could create multiple accounts to rep myself  BAD JEANNE!


----------



## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 23, 2009)

remove pos repping and base the rep power on the total amount of pages you have


----------



## Highgoober (Mar 23, 2009)

Locard said:


> Disabling your rep doesnt work, because not liking the rep system is an extremely complex concept that a repwhore simply cant understand
> 
> If you disable your rep you'll have a lot of repwhores sharing your "im better than you" bs attitude (calling people kids and all), posting comments like "why would we listen to you, show us your rep first" "lol, dont listen to him. i bet he's a troll and his rep is black because he's been negged to hell!"
> etc etc
> ...



I don't think I'm better than you, just disliking something you can disable yourself seems like pointless whining. I like the word kid, it's lighthearted and fun.

I actually only know good posters that have their rep disabled so I don't get where the "He's probably a troll", thing comes from unless you have a specific example? 

It appears you not liking the rep system isn't that complicated since you then go on to list why you don't like it, the reasons being it annoys you and bothers you. So what part of that is complex? 

Really though if you hate the rep system so much, just don't use it. If people think they are better than you because of some numbers then I doubt they are the type of people that are going to suddenly think you are their equal because they have less numbers.


----------



## OniTasku (Mar 23, 2009)

I honestly don't really care. People will never stop bitching about rep, and _that_ is the main problem. Oh well.


----------



## Kikyo (Mar 23, 2009)

New rep system:

10 reps per 24 hour period
1 rep = 1 point
pos and negs allowed (but no flames)
no repping other ppl before you can rep the same person again (you can rep the same person 10 times, pos or neg, in a row ina 24 hour period)
hide the rep ranks/points scale

In other words, make it so ridiculously easy to give out that it becomes completely meaningless while at the same time removing some of the elitism from the rep power/post count/join date/rep rank.  After a period of adjustment () it may actually turn into an actual post comment/ranking/feedback system that it should have been. 

But the part of the rep rules that prevents one from repping others as often as we want is really the worst part of the system. If a poster writes a very good post more than once a day or a good artist goes on a spree of great art, you have to randomly rep ppl to get the person you actually want to rep. The random repping is not exactly a great incentive for everyone to post wonderful content and ultimately ends up with a system that is meaningless to most ppl because most of our reps are from random spreading, signifying absolutely nothing.  It's this part of the rules that actually prevent me from taking any part of the system seriously. Regardless of the post content, if you get repped for something, even with a pos comment about the post, how can you really be sure that it's honest feedback or someone pretending to give feedback but actually just spreading? 

or turn it off completely.

or leave it as is. 

The poll options are both just really half assed solutions that would really only make most of the problems the staff is trying to solve even worse. 

Rep abuse will always occur. It's up to the abused to speak up, if they care. And if they don't, why should the staff?

Rep whoring will always occur, and as usual, mostly off the forums. 

Elitism will always exist as long as we can compare _any_ kind of stats with another member. 

Rep is fun, but like any ranking system there will always be a way to abuse it no matter what you do. Trying to prevent that is like trying to change human nature, it's not going to happen. Accept that it will and does and respond to complaints as they occur. Or don't accept it and turn off the system. That's really your only choices.


----------



## Broleta (Mar 23, 2009)

Eh, it's fine the way it is. Both of these options are shit.


----------



## nimblnymph (Mar 23, 2009)

I honestly don't see the point in having rep anyway.  It basically boils down to a popularity contest and seems to cause more problems than it's actually worth.  Why not just get rid of the system completely?  That would solve all the problems at once.  No whores, no elitism, no flaming... less work for the admins.


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 23, 2009)

Wait, so your new options to fix the rep sistem is to destroy it?




I didn't know Doctor Doom had overtaken NF


----------



## bitesize (Mar 23, 2009)

Negative rep is completely pointless. If anyone disagrees I will quickly refute their horrible argument. Acting like negative rep is some kind of "punishment" is laughable.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 23, 2009)

Spanish Hoffkage said:


> remove pos repping and base the rep power on the total amount of pages you have


ohhhh 


thats a good idea 




syrup said:


> then there is no benefit to being here longer and i could create multiple accounts to rep myself  BAD JEANNE!



but they want to take the benefit of somebody that has high rep but is new too 

if the second option works i will loose over 900 of my rep power 

what makes somebody that joined 2004 better than somebody that joined 2007 D:...the users can have high rep power without depend on how much time they are here 

also, some library trolls tend to have high postcount because of where they post, base it on postcount would make them have higher power than somebody that does not fight about a manga character all the time z.z




in my opnion the best thing to do is remove the names of who left the neg/pos


there would be no revenge neg like that


----------



## son_michael (Mar 23, 2009)

are the mods actually going to change anything?



because so far 45% are unhappy{ a 9% difference} and I think ignoring them for the majority of people who want things to stay the same is wrong


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Mar 23, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> ohhhh
> 
> 
> thats a good idea
> ...



argh...did someone say 04 ...argh?


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 23, 2009)

Ark 14.0 said:


> argh...did someone say 04 ...argh?


argh...YOU 2004 ...argh


----------



## son_michael (Mar 23, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> in my opnion the best thing to do is remove the names of who left the neg/pos
> 
> 
> there would be no revenge neg like that





that's how it used to be back in 05,people were negged for unsatisfactory reasons and went to super mods to find out who negged them and get them in trouble


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 23, 2009)

son_michael said:


> that's how it used to be back in 05,people were negged for unsatisfactory reasons and went to super mods to find out who negged them and get them in trouble


it will just give them more problem 






anyways, how much problem is the rep system giving?


too much work for the staff or something? they could get new mods to work only with that stuff


----------



## Kaenboshi (Mar 23, 2009)

It seems pointless to remove the ability to neg rep, but leave pos repping in tact. Yes, it's abused, but making negative feedback impossible negates the point of positive feedback. If you think about going that route, you might as well scrap the whole rep system.


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't see what makes the rep system so important that you just don't take it out. Would cut down on so many problems. It's not like it contributes to the forums.


----------



## Kusogitsune (Mar 24, 2009)

I choose the option that still lets me flame people in pos reps.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 24, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> it will just give them more problem
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah but I don't think they really like modding new people that much. They never want to have too many mods at one time. That's why whenever we get new mods and s-mods, it's just because they're replacing someone who's leaving. I don't think the number of active staff really ever increases even though NF's population does. At least that is how it seems I guess. They probably have a good reason for not modding new people much but I wouldn't know what the reason is.


----------



## Sayuri (Mar 24, 2009)

This poll is beyond flawed.

The point of polls is to find out the _majority_ opinion of the whole community. By leaving a poll option out (Leave it the same), you're skewing the poll. If everyone were to vote for the lesser of two evils, including the people who want the system to stay the same, what you would get is NF's opinion of the lesser of two evils, not NF's opinion. 

You say that you might not implement the options in the poll, but then what's the point of the poll? The poll, as I said, is skewed. It will not help the community improve. 

While I admire helping the little guy, you have to know what he stands for _first._ The rep system, throughout my year here in NF, has brought me much enjoyment. I love it. It's imperfect, but it's best the way it is. And this is coming from someone who's been gang negged (twice?).

Getting rid of neg... no. At first I'd like to say that this takes the enjoyment away from people who want 'neg only'. Second of all, this won't stop repwhoring and rep abuse. I hope you haven't forgotten that both of those also happen on the rep side. Whoring for reps, abusing your reps? 

Rep in rep power is gone... no. What you're basically going to do is punish repwhorers _and_ members who contribute. Just because I joined at a later date than others and have more rep doesn't mean I'm a repwhore. Just because I joined at an earlier date than others and have less rep doesn't make them a repwhore.

Getting rid of the system altogether... no. If you want it gone, disable your rep. There, problem solved.

Don't change the system just because people get offended over small things like the loss of points and a dot. Don't change the system just because people get offended by attacks by people who don't even know them in real life. It's fine how it is.


----------



## Cirus (Mar 24, 2009)

Sayuri said:


> This poll is beyond flawed.
> 
> The point of polls is to find out the _majority_ opinion of the whole community. By leaving a poll option out (Leave it the same), you're skewing the poll. If everyone were to vote for the lesser of two evils, including the people who want the system to stay the same, what you would get is NF's opinion of the lesser of two evils, not NF's opinion.
> 
> ...


 
If is not really the loss of points that are agrivating people, but rather the abuse of the system, and the reasons people give out neg/pos reps.  The whole idea behind the reputation system is to show which members are the good or productive members of the forum.  Right now this is not the case and as such the system is not working properly.

You yourself say you have been gang negged 2 times since you have been on.  I am guessing it was not for you being an ass, but rather for a stupid that they came up with.  Am I right on that?  By any opinion that is going completely against what the system is for.

People are offended because of the agregous nature that such things bring.  People who contribute and have a good quality to them are not getting the proper respect on the forum that they should, but rather the people who have the most friends end up getting the most rep.  Which ends up into groups that neg for reasons other then a supposed bad post.  Though it is sad that most problems of such all come from a select few groups.


----------



## Major (Mar 24, 2009)

Jeez I don't care either way, rep is just rep, it doesn't really mean anything.

As far as negs go, they rule.  There is nothing like being insulted in your CP by a retard


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 24, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Yeah but I don't think they really like modding new people that much. They never want to have too many mods at one time. That's why whenever we get new mods and s-mods, it's just because they're replacing someone who's leaving. I don't think the number of active staff really ever increases even though NF's population does. At least that is how it seems I guess. They probably have a good reason for not modding new people much but I wouldn't know what the reason is.


well more modded ppl: more opinions to diverge 


it makes the hokage house more full too :B


----------



## Namikaze Minato Flash (Mar 24, 2009)

Saruto said:


> I'll just point out that option 2 is completely without merit, because that reduces its role to merely reflecting post count and join date. Both of which are clearly visible anyway. So option 2 should really be, "remove rep altogether".



Yeah, I agree. I mean, you got people spamming and trolling all over the place, so post count will be a plus in inhancing their rank/repping power. I say keep it as is...


----------



## FrostXian (Mar 24, 2009)

> -The formula for rep power becomes Post Count+Join date=Rep Power


This is awesome. Or remove the reputation system all-together and get it over with.
I would prefer if it had not existed at all.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Mar 24, 2009)

The 2nd one is the lesser of 2 evils


----------



## Mat?icha (Mar 24, 2009)

i say dont change anything. keep it the way it is.


----------



## Kyuubi Whisker (Mar 24, 2009)

The less bad of the two is the second option.

Removing neg rep may increase flaming/trolling since you can do that without repercussion.


----------



## Susano-o (Mar 24, 2009)

holy shit, I only just now realized it


----------



## Golden Circle (Mar 24, 2009)

Second option

But you'll want to get rid of that rep ceiling idea in under a week.


----------



## Jαmes (Mar 24, 2009)

what's wrong with modding more people? there doesn't have to be a dozen... there are lots of active people who can do the job... they don't have to be given full mod powers, just the jurisdiction to enact rep rules, handle complaints, and such... won't it lessen the mods' work?


----------



## MUSOLINI (Mar 24, 2009)

who gives a fuck, remove it or leave it. back to real world problemz...


----------



## Hitomi (Mar 24, 2009)

Mingming said:


> what's wrong with modding more people? there doesn't have to be a dozen... there are lots of active people who can do the job... they don't have to be given full mod powers, just the jurisdiction to enact rep rules, handle complaints, and such... won't it lessen the mods' work?


that sounds like a good idea.


----------



## Felt (Mar 24, 2009)

^^ That would probably require MBxx.  Plus I doubt the staff would want that anyway...


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 24, 2009)

Mingming said:


> what's wrong with modding more people? there doesn't have to be a dozen... there are lots of active people who can do the job... they don't have to be given full mod powers, just the jurisdiction to enact rep rules, handle complaints, and such... won't it lessen the mods' work?


thats what i was talking about


but it would require a Sadmin, like hollie said >_>


----------



## Jαmes (Mar 24, 2009)

too bad mbxx doesn't give a damn... 

but i don't see why they shouldn't... although they see a lot more than i do...


----------



## Rolling~Star (Mar 24, 2009)

best for the forum is leave things the way they are

or reset everyone's rep


----------



## Tachikoma (Mar 24, 2009)

mbxx is my best friend, he's coming over for tea tomorrow.


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 24, 2009)

Kyuubi Whisker said:


> The less bad of the two is the second option.
> 
> Removing neg rep may increase flaming/trolling since you can do that without repercussion.



On other occasions you have people who get positive rep for trolling so that doesn't work out either.


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 24, 2009)

I wholeheartedly approve of this communist movement.


----------



## Lucaniel (Mar 24, 2009)

152,540 members and 463 have voted.

I know there are many dupes and unused accounts and banned ones, but more people need to vote. 

/hasn't voted


----------



## Felt (Mar 24, 2009)

Lucaniel said:


> 152,540 members and 463 have voted.
> 
> I know there are many dupes and unused accounts and banned ones, but more people need to vote.
> 
> /hasn't voted



Though amusingly alot of the people who have voted are dupes.


----------



## E (Mar 24, 2009)

you know what, fuck it

nuke the whole thing, make everybody be zero and do the whole joindate+postcunt thing

make 100k be called “is teh coolest ninja evar”

have fun losing members


----------



## Tyler (Mar 24, 2009)

Lucaniel said:


> 152,540 members and 463 have voted.
> 
> I know there are many dupes and unused accounts and banned ones, but more people need to vote.
> 
> /hasn't voted



If you haven't voted your getting banned! 









*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 24, 2009)

I say let Tazmo decide


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 24, 2009)

E said:


> you know what, fuck it
> 
> nuke the whole thing, make everybody be zero and do the whole joindate+postcunt thing
> 
> ...



And nothing of value would be lost.


----------



## E (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> And nothing of value would be lost.



i thought you were UG?  there's one pretty big jerkcircle gone if this thing happens


----------



## Snickers (Mar 24, 2009)

This is the April Fool's prank for this year don't fall for it.


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 24, 2009)

E said:


> i thought you were UG?  there's one pretty big jerkcircle gone if this thing happens



Coming from Mr. Final Villain, eh?

Save it, Jet and Taxman have run through UG over and over again, and have found nothing that comes close to UG being a circlejerk.

Stop complaining that your precious repcircle got closed down. And stop complaining that you might lose your rep power.


----------



## E (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> Coming from Mr. Final Villain, eh?
> 
> Save it, Jet and Taxman have run through UG over and over again, and have found nothing that comes close to UG being a circlejerk.
> 
> Stop complaining that your precious repcircle got closed down. And stop complaining that you might lose your rep power.



 ?

i've never had a repcircle, nor was i slashed or sealed for being in one, what the fuck are you blabbing on about? 

and i could really give a rat's ass about rep power, i dont even know how much i rep for

i'm just giving my opinion on how i'm against tampering with something in an attempt to fix it when it doesn't even need fixing in the first place


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 24, 2009)

E said:


> ?
> 
> i've never had a repcircle, nor was i slashed or sealed for being in one, what the fuck are you blabbing on about?
> 
> ...



I can name off several others who were part of the same repcircle as you, and were also spared from the slash and seal - a few of whom have openly admitted they were a part.

Your argument isn't very convincing. Nor is your claims to not give a rat's ass, as your quoted post implies differently.



E said:


> you know what, fuck it
> 
> nuke the whole thing, make everybody be zero and do the whole joindate+postcunt thing
> 
> ...


----------



## E (Mar 24, 2009)

if you say so


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 24, 2009)

Mingming said:


> what's wrong with modding more people? there doesn't have to be a dozen... there are lots of active people who can do the job... they don't have to be given full mod powers, just the jurisdiction to enact rep rules, handle complaints, and such... won't it lessen the mods' work?


A few reasons why:


Tazmo/Mbxx is needed for it to work properly.
We'd basically have to give someone neutered smod perms if we can do it without them, and it removes the requirement for administrators for outgoing reputation lists
We have no criteria to base a "reputation moderator" on like we do when section modding someone.
HR Security
It's a problem with the system in itself, not the amount of regulation. Changing the amount of regulation may help the problem, but not as effectively as changing the system will.


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 24, 2009)

Whoever leaves because of a rep system... will make the forums a better place...


----------



## delirium (Mar 24, 2009)

Possible changes to the rep system:

Everytime you rep someone the points go to me. If you neg the points are converted from negative to positive.

Or you simply rep this post.

GO GO GO GO GO GO GO


----------



## Tyler (Mar 24, 2009)

Whats HR Security?


----------



## Taxman (Mar 24, 2009)

yes, we like to horde all of our Jew Gold


----------



## Vanity (Mar 24, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> well more modded ppl: more opinions to diverge
> 
> 
> it makes the hokage house more full too :B



Yeah more opinions but it would also be harder for them to decide on a solution if there were more mods. I think it would be harder for them to decide on a lot of things with more mods since it'd be harder for them to reach a group decision that everyone(or at least 90% of them) are okay with.

Eh, I guess there are pros and cons to having either a lot of mods or few mods.



Nakiro said:


> Whoever leaves because of a rep system... will make the forums a better place...



Yeah I agree with that. I mean if someone's only reason for posting here is because of the rep......:S


----------



## E (Mar 24, 2009)

why hasn't S_S been admined yet?

srsly


----------



## Vanity (Mar 24, 2009)

lol. Well when Spy Smasher says stuff like that I know that he's not always being serious since he tends to joke around like that. XD And I think he likes to get crazy reactions out of people. lol.

If the thread was really over I don't think Taxman and some other staff would still be discussing this. XD


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 24, 2009)

1. Make names invisible in both pos and neg.

2. Induce a forum-wide rep reset, but leave the current system the way it is.

3. Enforce the rules (i.e. reps are given out because of good posts, threads and behavior. Not because you see someone you like's name in the thread and decide to rep him. Negs on the other hand, are given out for offensive posts, trolling, and flaming. Not because you see someone you don't like and decide to neg him, or because someone mentions liking a certain character or is wearing a character/pairing in their set that you don't like).

4. Make rep punishments more severe. First incident of rep abuse = 1 week seal. Second = month. Third = permanent rep seal.

5. Any and all rep abuse is punished in order of those three punishments. No warnings, no letting someone off the hook. Additionally, if a member makes a complaint that they believe someone is repping abuse, mods should actually investigate it thoroughly and not ignore it because "We don't care about rep".

6. Get rid of the retarded "Rep? Don't bother telling us about it" rule. Either make the system your priority or get rid of the fucking thing. It causes nothing but problems in exchange for an internet popularity dramafest (that isn't worth having in the first place).

People should receive rep for contributing to the forum. People should not receive rep for dressing up in corsets and taking pictures of it, or writing a name of a member on their hand, in a heart, and posting the picture up.

People should lose rep for flaming, trolling, being ignorant and offensive and for not contributing to the forum in a positive way. People shouldn't lose rep for liking a character, sharing their (non-inflammatory) opinion, for attending a certain Fanclub or for expressing their (non-offensive) views though sets.

This or remove the entire system altogether.


----------



## Para (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> This or remove the entire system altogether.


This     .


----------



## Vanity (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> 2. Induce a forum-wide rep reset, but leave the current system the way it is.



How would that change anything really? :S Slashing everyone's rep to zero but leaving the system the same? :S

I think that would just piss a lot of people off.

And I don't mind my rep being removed if the system itself is actually done away with but slashing it all and leaving the system the same too? That just seems so pointless to me. Not to mention that's like assuming that everyone's current rep is somehow fake/whored/etc.


----------



## Tyler (Mar 24, 2009)

How about removing it all together, and let us have different color rep bars that mean absolutely nothing 

Just decoration, colorful decoration 

I want a yello 1


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 24, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> How would that change anything really? :S Slashing everyone's rep to zero but leaving the system the same? :S
> 
> I think that would just piss a lot of people off.
> 
> And I don't mind my rep being removed if the system itself is actually done away with but slashing it all and leaving the system the same too? That just seems so pointless to me. Not to mention that's like assuming that everyone's current rep is somehow fake/whored/etc.



My post was a single suggestion, not six different ones. As in, they should implement all 6 of the points at the same time.

Much would change, I assure you.


----------



## Memos (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> 1. Make names invisible in both pos and neg.


People would still just leave their names for pos-rep and leave their names out of a neg message.



> 2. Induce a forum-wide rep reset, but leave the current system the way it is.


It would simply re-start the process that got us here in the first place. As KY said, it would piss-off a lot of people


> 3. Enforce the rules (i.e. reps are given out because of good posts, threads and behavior. Not because you see someone you like's name in the thread and decide to rep him. Negs on the other hand, are given out for offensive posts, trolling, and flaming. Not because you see someone you don't like and decide to neg him, or because someone mentions liking a certain character or is wearing a character/pairing in their set that you don't like).


Is that much more different to what they are doing now?

Also, policing this would be incredibly difficult and time-consuming and also, people rep for different reasons.


> 4. Make rep punishments more severe. First incident of rep abuse = 1 week seal. Second = month. Third = permanent rep seal.


Could work.


> 5. Any and all rep abuse is punished in order of those three punishments. No warnings, no letting someone off the hook. Additionally, if a member makes a complaint that they believe someone is repping abuse, mods should actually investigate it thoroughly and not ignore it because "We don't care about rep".
> 
> 6. Get rid of the retarded "Rep? Don't bother telling us about it" rule. Either make the system your priority or get rid of the fucking thing. It causes nothing but problems in exchange for an internet popularity dramafest (that isn't worth having in the first place).
> 
> ...


I can't say anything about this as I have no experience of how staff deal with rep complaints.


> This or remove the entire system altogether.


I personally wouldn't want the rep system gone.


----------



## Cirus (Mar 24, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> A few reasons why:
> 
> 
> Tazmo/Mbxx is needed for it to work properly.
> ...


There are always ways to deal with things if you are willing to think outside of the box. Creative thinking is what it is called.

1. Fine. Get them involved. Contact Mbxx to get it started.
2. ok
3. Get a group of regular moderator and create a seperate offshoot of such to where they can do that and give up regular modding privlages. People who know the rep rules inside and out.
4. Follow step number 3, and then mod new people for section mods. So HR is not compromised.
5. Expand the criteria on what repwhoring is and what revenge negging is in the rules to a point where everyone knows what they are and no mistaking what is and what is not for it. Basically do include a whole bunch of things in it that stop section repwhoring.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> My post was a single suggestion, not six different ones. As in, they should implement all 6 of the points at the same time.
> 
> Much would change, I assure you.



Well if my rep was re-set I would ask to be sealed honestly since there are some people that would probably love a chance to actually put me into the red.

Also making names invisible in negs and reps....that just tempts people into abusing the system further. -_-

If I get 5 negs in the course of a short span of time they could all be the same person but I wouldn't even know that. I'd have to get a mod to look into it to see if it's rep abuse.

EDIT:

@ Cirus :

You know mods have tried to get Tazmo and Mbxx involved in stuff before I believe but it doesn't usually work. It's not as easy as it seems. They don't often involve themselves in stuff like that.


----------



## Memos (Mar 24, 2009)

Cirus said:


> There are always ways to deal with things if you are willing to think outside of the box.  Creative thinking is what it is called.
> 
> 1.  Fine.  Get them involved. Contact Mbxx to get it started.
> 2.  ok
> ...



From what some of the mods have said about the process of looking into rep and determining one way or the other if there is something wrong, it isn't a fun process. Do you really think some of the current staff would want to give up their powers over their sections in order to only look into rep-related situations?


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 24, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> People would still just leave their names for pos-rep and leave their names out of a neg message.



Would just make it easier for mods to catch any abuse.



Kusuriuri said:


> It would simply re-start the process that got us here in the first place. As KY said, it would piss-off a lot of people



No it wouldn't, not with the other points in place. Alone it would, but in a fresh start with my other points addressed it would change the system. And who cares if it pisses people off?



Kusuriuri said:


> Is that much more different to what they are doing now?



It is extremely different. As it stands right now, only one mod actively deals with rep while the others pay it no heed.



Kusuriuri said:


> Also, policing this would be incredibly difficult and time-consuming and also, people rep for different reasons.



Yeah, and currently, 90% of those reasons are not reasons they should be repping for. Thus the need for the rule change.



Kusuriuri said:


> Could work.



Would work.



Kusuriuri said:


> I can't say anything about this as I have no experience of how staff deal with rep complaints.



They don't deal with them. It was all-but-admitted three times in this thread by the staff themselves.



Kusuriuri said:


> I personally wouldn't want the rep system gone.



Opinion given.



Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Well if my rep was re-set I would ask to be sealed honestly since there are some people that would probably love a chance to actually put me into the red.



Either it would be rep abuse (and they would get seriously punished) or you deserve it.



Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Also making names invisible in negs and reps....that just tempts people into abusing the system further. -_-



And that's great, with only three strikes it's just a matter of time until these people are permanently removed from influencing rep.



Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> If I get 5 negs in the course of a short span of time they could all be the same person but I wouldn't even know that. *I'd have to get a mod to look into it to see if it's rep abuse.*



Yeah, you would.

So what?


----------



## Vanity (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> Either it would be rep abuse (and they would get seriously punished) or you deserve it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And people's opinion of who deserves to be negged varies widely. -_-

Anyway, yeah, I would have to get a mod to see who keeps negging me instead of already knowing myself who keeps doing it.

Isn't that a step backwards? It makes mods even have to do more work.


----------



## Cirus (Mar 24, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> From what some of the mods have said about the process of looking into rep and determining one way or the other if there is something wrong, it isn't a fun process. Do you really think some of the current staff would want to give up their powers over their sections in order to only look into rep-related situations?


 Considering that it wouldn't be that difficult of a job I say that people shouldn't worry about it.  I think it would be a rather easy job.  Though to make it easy the rep rules would have to clarified to a point that no mistaking anything on rep could be done, and minimal discretion is involved to determine what rep behavior should be determined as.


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 24, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> And people's opinion of who deserves to be negged varies widely. -_-



And I've listed the reasons one should (fairly) be repped or negged. Personal opinion should have nothing to do with it. That's the backwards kind of thinking that has led to the current problems, because now people can just post in a thread saying "sup" and be pos'd by several people who like him/her, just because. I should know, I've been both pos'd and neg'd in the past for doing absolutely nothing to deserve either.



Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Anyway, yeah, I would have to get a mod to see who keeps negging me instead of already knowing myself who keeps doing it.



Yeah, exactly. And to many people, not knowing who's negged you stops problems of flaming, drama and revenge.

If you believe you're the victim of abuse, you would bring it up with the staff. Otherwise, suck it up and take some criticism (what negs are meant to be).



Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Isn't that a step backwards? It makes mods even have to do more work.



No. The "not know" system was the original system, before they decided to enable names. Back then, there wasn't as many problems or complaints.


----------



## Snickers (Mar 24, 2009)

MarryGoRound said:


> This is the April Fool's prank for this year don't fall for it.



I am basically  saying I called it.


----------



## E (Mar 24, 2009)

E said:


> srsly, am i one of the very few that are optimistic enough to believe that this just one huge troll to see how many people would rage?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



don't kill me sniggers


----------



## Susano-o (Mar 24, 2009)

Susano-o said:


> holy shit, I only just now realized it





MarryGoRound said:


> I am basically  saying I called it.



                           .


----------



## Snickers (Mar 24, 2009)

*insert penis here*


btw susano-o I wanted to ''get'' you for that , basically saying the same thing what you told me in my ''thingy'', which once again supports what you said when you ''got'' me and inserted your thing in my ''thingy''.


But this other thing, that is most likely white, is obstructing me.


----------



## scerpers (Mar 24, 2009)

*insert tongue here*


----------



## Tsukiyo (Mar 24, 2009)

Just an idea, why can't we just limit the amounts of negs to like 5 per day or something?


----------



## Jαmes (Mar 24, 2009)

Tsukiyo said:


> Just an idea, why can't we just limit the amounts of negs to like 5 per day or something?



i don't think it would really make a difference. the problem is more on that some people neg outside the purpose it was made and not so much on that they neg a lot...


----------



## beezley1981 (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> Coming from Mr. Final Villain, eh?
> 
> Save it, Jet and Taxman have run through UG over and over again, and have found nothing that comes close to UG being a circlejerk.
> 
> Stop complaining that your precious repcircle got closed down. And stop complaining that you might lose your rep power.



Rep circles? 
I knew that there were idiots who'd revenge neg, and fools who pos rep-back. And, there have always been people who rep whore, but rep circles...so many nards with no fucking power in their lives but rep power. 

Fuck it all...burn the rep system down.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 24, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> And I've listed the reasons one should (fairly) be repped or negged. Personal opinion should have nothing to do with it. That's the backwards kind of thinking that has led to the current problems, because now people can just post in a thread saying "sup" and be pos'd by several people who like him/her, just because. I should know, I've been both pos'd and neg'd in the past for doing absolutely nothing to deserve either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wrong.  Back then people would abuse without restraint because they knew they wouldn't get caught.


----------



## beezley1981 (Mar 24, 2009)

Mider T said:


> Wrong.  Back then people would abuse without restraint because they knew they wouldn't get caught.



I get no fewer negs now then I did when we couldn't see their names. I'd say that one out of every 20-30 reps is a neg, that's how it's been since I became a member. They're still for retarded reasons too. The only difference now is I can sent the person who negged me a PM saying "Job well done, you negged me because I chewed some guys ass (who happens to be on your friends list), for posting something stupid...you're a winner!"

I'm glad I usually stick to the Bathhouse where people act sensible.


----------



## Randomaxe (Mar 24, 2009)

Personally, I would like to see the neg's go away. I've only had a few, but the persons who've neg me never explained why they did it, it was some BS comment with out elaboration. The worst part was that me and the mad poster never discussed what was it was in my posts that bothered him. This infuriates me, because it feels like being stabbed in the back just for having an opinion.


----------



## mortsleam (Mar 24, 2009)

lol @ the first two posts + this thread.

Why the hell is this so serious? I mean honestly.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 24, 2009)

mods should see how the OBD is a rep circle by the same people neg rep me when i dont think like them and troll me on my rep wuth comments. they also offer rep just to bash the opponents side  of characters.


----------



## mortsleam (Mar 24, 2009)

Oh good lord! Have you told a staff member?


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 24, 2009)

i didnt think they would do anything about it. if you could see my rep the same people are on it for neging me for supposed trolling and stupid posts when even a mod said my posts were ok.


----------



## mortsleam (Mar 24, 2009)

Tell a staff member. They'll handle them and should help you get some of that rep back like they're suppose to. If they give you any shit just tell them you know me.


----------



## Jαmes (Mar 24, 2009)

this forum needs more enforcement...


----------



## son_michael (Mar 24, 2009)

mortsleam said:


> Oh good lord! Have you told a staff member?



as I said in a previous post....super mods and Admins don't reply to pm's and they don't check on reported post's{at least that's my experience anyway.. and believe me I've tried to contact them plenty of times...}



The regular Mods for the most part always try to help out but they cant do anything other than give warnings.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 24, 2009)

that sucks. they should take of reping just so the OBD cant intimidate you anymore and half to deal with it. they think they rule the OBD. their neg comments even say "GTFO of my OBD." since when is it theirs? its for everyone. im in a twilight vs harry potter thread and a twilight hater even points out how their knowledge is wrong but they say proove it when he has like 3 times.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 24, 2009)

beezley1981 said:


> I get no fewer negs now then I did when we couldn't see their names. I'd say that one out of every 20-30 reps is a neg, that's how it's been since I became a member. They're still for retarded reasons too. The only difference now is I can sent the person who negged me a PM saying "Job well done, you negged me because I chewed some guys ass (who happens to be on your friends list), for posting something stupid...you're a winner!"
> 
> I'm glad I usually stick to the Bathhouse where people act sensible.



Wasn't that function done away with like right after you joined?  That may be the reason.


----------



## Monark (Mar 24, 2009)

son_michael said:


> as I said in a previous post....*super mods and Admins don't reply to pm's and they don't check on reported post's*{at least that's my experience anyway.. and believe me I've tried to contact them plenty of times...}
> 
> 
> 
> The regular Mods for the most part always try to help out but they cant do anything other than give warnings.



They respond when they can. Their PM boxes are flooded constantly, so a little sloth is to be expected.


----------



## son_michael (Mar 24, 2009)

Malmsey said:


> They respond when they can. Their PM boxes are flooded constantly, so a little sloth is to be expected.



or they just dont care....


----------



## Lord of Fire (Mar 25, 2009)

son_michael said:


> or they just dont care....


YOU KNOW YOU JUST DONT LIKE MODS OR ADMINS DO YOU ?


----------



## Vanity (Mar 25, 2009)

son_michael said:


> or they just dont care....



Well it's really hard to judge that when you aren't a mod yourself. A lot of regular members don't understand it much because they don't know what it feels like to be a mod. There is a kind of disconnect between mods and regular members in that sense.

I'm not saying the mods don't sometimes have problems because sometimes they honestly do....they are people too....but for the most part I think most of them are fine. And sometimes they do warn those people but they just won't always write back and tell you that they warned the person and obviously you can't see into the person's profile and see that a mod put a warning on them.

I dunno. I mostly go to the same mods when I have a problem because I know which ones are more likely to write me back.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 25, 2009)

i know a mod who responds within 3 minutes or 5  but ghats quick. shes cool. anyway i used the Contact Us option to report the big rep circle. hope the admi get it


----------



## Tyler (Mar 25, 2009)

son_michael said:


> or they just dont care....



Thats what I thought. But I send my problems to Jetstorm and he/she is always on it. Never ignores me and gets the job done fast


----------



## Vanity (Mar 25, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Thats what I thought. But I send my problems to Jetstorm and he/she is always on it. Never ignores me and gets the job done fast



Yeah when it comes to rep I usually send my problems to him. He is very ontop of the ball when it comes to rep. Unfortunatly since he's not an admin, I think he still needs some help to look into things.

I sometimes contact Taxman also or about other problems in general.

Those are the 2 staff I contact the most about problems.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 25, 2009)

I always contact halfhearted. she's the best and coolest i know.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 25, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> I always contact halfhearted. she's the best and coolest i know.



Oh yeah she is really nice. I don't talk to her much though, but whenever I have she seems really nice.

I never had many problems in HoU though and for a long time she mostly just modded that section, so I didn't really have to contact her about stuff. I just report posts and whoever sees it first looks after it so it doesn't deal with me having to PM anyone.

Now that she's an s-mod, I guess I might end up contacting her about more things.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 25, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> I always contact halfhearted. she's the best and coolest i know.


oh, she is awesome :3



the member of the staff that i am closer to right now is pek

i really like many of them, they are good friends :3


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 25, 2009)

yea, but some i know barely respond but its ok because i know they're busy


----------



## Vanity (Mar 25, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> oh, she is awesome :3
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm the closest to vervex and Taxman. Especially vervex though. We might end up meeting later this year(we both live in Canada, lol). I think Taxman considers me a friend, although not a close one. I like him though.

And yeah Pek is pretty cool all the times I've talked to him. ^^

The majority of other staff I don't really know all that well. Some I have really never interacted much with. And there is one that I really don't get along with. Another one also doesn't really get along with me but there's only one that I have a real problem with. It's probably not the one that most people would think and I've gotten over what happened between me and that one. It's a more recent one but I won't say what went down cause it's just not the place to discuss such things. I wouldn't say I 'hate' him though since hate is a pretty strong word and I'm not really a hateful person.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 25, 2009)

the staff is cool though.



p.s. ignore the twilight pic. i put it there to see what he rep circle in the OBD would do. its not intended for anyone else so please ignore it cus i got negg reped for it from here so please ignore it.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 25, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> the staff is cool though.
> 
> 
> 
> p.s. ignore the twilight pic. i put it there to see what he rep circle in the OBD would do. its not intended for anyone else so please ignore it cus i got negg reped for it from here so please ignore it.


better take it off 



if OBD neg u for it its justified 


twilight sux


----------



## Sin (Mar 25, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> the staff is cool though.
> 
> 
> 
> p.s. ignore the twilight pic. i put it there to see what he rep circle in the OBD would do. its not intended for anyone else so please ignore it cus i got negg reped for it from here so please ignore it.


The OBD negging you is not a "rep circle." You simply have a bad debating form, and the OBD isn't exactly known for it's tolerance or restraint with the negging feature.

They're not collectively negging you, they all just happen to neg you because you keep posting and arguing for what's already a pretty hated series, and not doing it well either.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 25, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hehe 

when i was a library nb i used to be afraid of the staff >_>

i remember that when i saw mods/adms on my visitors list i used to be like "oh noes ;_;"

to think that one of the adms that used to make me shit bricks is easily one of the members that i like the most as a friend now 

now that i look back its hilarious


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 25, 2009)

i'm kinda scared still. they have so much power its sometimes scary 


(I know its lame to everyone but thats one of the reasons this thread was created. to solve for pointless neging like for a sig pic or simple opinion. i never hate anything.)


----------



## Tyler (Mar 25, 2009)

Just don't go back to the OBD. Im not going back 

To much Naruto hate. Its okay to be an OnePiecetard, but a Narutard or Bleachtard is unacceptable lolz

@ the poll options. Does it mean your rep would be null since the power is gone?


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 25, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> i'm kinda scared still. they have so much power its sometimes scary
> 
> 
> (I know its lame to everyone but thats one of the reasons this thread was created. to solve for pointless neging like for a sig pic or simple opinion. i never hate anything.)


thats the problem


a neg for your set can be justified D:


for example, my avy, there are many furry haters 


yesterday i got 2 negs because of that, yet 19 pos


the negs that i got were because its furry, when i put it there i assume the risk of getting negged


the same thing happens when you use a twilight sig, you need to assume the risk of getting negged because of this 



the same way that if u get posed because of your sets, its considered legal, the same thing can be applied to negs , its justified


----------



## Tyler (Mar 25, 2009)

I always get negs for my Miley set lolz. Its not like I didn't expect it though. Its Miley Cyrus 

Lots of people hate her


----------



## son_michael (Mar 25, 2009)

its funny cause I know I sent pm's to taxman before and I think Pek as well...I guess the S mods and Admins only answer the people they consider there friends-__-


----------



## Felt (Mar 25, 2009)

It's not that easy being green;
Having to spend each day the color of the leaves.
When I think it could be nicer being red, or yellow or gold...
or something much more colorful like that.

It's not easy being green.
It seems you blend in with so many other ord'nary things.
And people tend to pass you over 'cause you're
not standing out like flashy sparkles in the water
or stars in the sky.

But green's the color of Spring.
And green can be cool and friendly-like.
And green can be big like an ocean, or important like a mountain,
or tall like a tree.

When green is all there is to be
It could make you wonder why, but why wonder why?
Wonder, I am green and it'll do fine, it's beautiful!
And I think it's what I want to be.


----------



## E (Mar 25, 2009)

my personal mod is purpleshirtguy 

whenever i need big meanies to be banned and selaed i go to him 

whenever i has to BAWWW about being bullyed i go to him 




for little shit such as posting loli guro i go to bathhouse modcat 


yes it's me reporting ya'll


----------



## Aldric (Mar 25, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> i'm kinda scared still. they have so much power its sometimes scary



lol I'm elysian and I'm probably in the top 5 of the highest OBD reps

You'd have been gangnegged in a really powerful section like the blender you'd be redder than a commie

And you deserve it anyway for being a 13 year old Twilight fangirl

As for the subject at hand just leave it the way it is now


----------



## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 25, 2009)

Im going to pos rep that girl with the Twilight set

and lets see how many negs it takes to nullify it gun


----------



## E (Mar 25, 2009)

throw my pos on top of that too gun

i think i got the right one D:


----------



## Tachikoma (Mar 25, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> 1. Make names invisible in both pos and neg.


No. 

the coward neg system was atrocious.


----------



## Memos (Mar 25, 2009)

Hey gais, guess what. Your avatar, your sig, your username and any of the other shit you put on here is your online identity. You log onto NF, people see what you put on there. They don't see the offline you.

Reps are points online. They are there when you log onto NF. They are not there when you go outside, talk to someone on MSN/AIM/whatever else. They are not there when you go to see a movie or when you go and get food. They are simply online points some people who probably do not know the real you gave you for whatever reason. They are worthless. They do not affect you in the real world in any way whatsoever.

You get repped, good for you. Carry on. You get negged, who cares? Carry on.

When you get pos'd, you still go about your normal life and do what you want. When you get neg'd you still go about your normal life and do what you want.

When you get rep'd you can still post on NF. It doesn't make a bit of difference to where you can post. Same with negs.

They neg you for your sets? who cares? You can still wear it.

Calm the fuck down people

I will get neg'd for this. I couldn't care less. If someone gave me a red and said "I agree with you" I couldn't care less about the red in the same way if someone had given me red and said "you're an asshole, blah blah blah, go away with your rep talk, blah blah blah".

Think about people who ask for red. Do they cry when they get a neg? Neg reps in themselves are nothing bad. Again, they do not affect you in any way whatsoever.

---

EDIT: ^hey Tachi


----------



## E (Mar 25, 2009)

Tachikoma_Pilot said:


> No.
> 
> the coward neg system was atrocious.



BE forums has a coward neg system...shit sux 

i had no way to revenge neg anybody with my 2mil neg power 


eventually i got a neg+perm convo...i never knew who the sob was 

it was probably that dickhead dyne


----------



## Tachikoma (Mar 25, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> Hey gais, guess what. Your avatar, your sig, your username and any of the other shit you put on here is your online identity. You log onto NF, people see what you put on there. They don't see the offline you.
> 
> Reps are points online. They are there when you log onto NF. They are not there when you go outside, talk to someone on MSN/AIM/whatever else. They are not there when you go to see a movie or when you go and get food. They are simply online points some people who probably do not know the real you gave you for whatever reason. They are worthless. They do not affect you in the real world in any way whatsoever.
> 
> ...


Hey Kusu 

Argue as you might, some people actually see NF as their lives \(-.-)/




E said:


> BE forums has a coward neg system...shit sux
> 
> i had no way to revenge neg anybody with my 2mil neg power
> 
> ...


lol Dyne.

This thread need Dyne camwhore dumps.


----------



## Yasha (Mar 25, 2009)

Removing all the rep ranks above, say 500k, sounds good to me. 

But I think we still need the neg system, however flawed it's, to help maintain the order in the forum, at least to a certain degree. (I don't know the actual proportion, but I believe the abusers of the system are only a minority) Against the negrep gangsters, I propose permanently taking away half of their rep points each time they commit it. That may work better than temporary repseal without hurting their rep power imo.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 25, 2009)

yea^ or making a rule as a notice for a few days saying neg reping should be only givin for breaking a law and if they give bad rep for your avy or opinion then they loose as many points as the person they negged lost


----------



## Taxman (Mar 25, 2009)

son_michael said:


> as I said in a previous post....s*uper mods and Admins don't reply to pm's and they don't check on reported post's*{at least that's my experience anyway.. and believe me I've tried to contact them plenty of times...}
> 
> The regular Mods for the most part always try to help out but they cant do anything other than give warnings.



hahahaha....I can tell you right now that a majority of reported posts are handled by smods (and now that Halfhearted, Hiroshi, and Kribaby are smods, that fact is goint to be even more true)...though we usually let the OBD mods handle any reports from the OBD.

No reported post is ignored...they are looked into, but if we don't agree with your report, nothing is done.  We don't _have _to act on each reported post.

As for PMs...well...I can't speak for all of us.  I know that I read every PM I get, but I don't really respond to PMs that are reporting something that really isn't a problem (or at least not enough of a problem to be punished) or I forward it to the staff member who is already handling your problem (like for instance...PMing me to ask why your thread in telegrams was merged instead of asking, you know, the actual telegram mods who merged your thread).  I probably should be responding to those PMs though so that the person at least knows I read the PM.  The only PMs I actually ignore are the ones with stupid requests like "change my rep bar gold" or "give me a special post rank"...

And as for VMs, I have a habit of ignoring any request in my VMs since I like that feature to be a chat for people who wish to avoid my FC


----------



## E (Mar 25, 2009)

you can really change it to gold?


----------



## Susano-o (Mar 25, 2009)

I got a reply in (under) 5 minutes.

I think they only reply to people with lots of rep.
So keep up the repwhoring, kiddies.

<3


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 25, 2009)

Tachikoma_Pilot said:


> No.
> 
> the coward neg system was atrocious.



Why, because without knowing who negged you, you had no way to revenge neg them or call one of your friends to neg them in return? Because that's the only reason why one would want to know the name of the person leaving a neg.



E said:


> BE forums has a coward neg system...shit sux
> 
> i had no way to revenge neg anybody with my 2mil neg power



And thank you, E, for proving my point.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 25, 2009)

son_michael said:


> its funny cause I know I sent pm's to taxman before and I think Pek as well...I guess the S mods and Admins only answer the people they consider there friends-__-



Well honestly, PMing the mods that you are friends with probably will be more likely to get you an answer.....it is just human nature to be more likely to reply to your friends than some random person you've never talked to. That's not to say that they shouldn't read PMs from people they don't know but it is human nature to be more likely to respond to the ones from your friends/people you are more familiar with.

The mods have never said on average how many PMs they get a day. Perhaps they should, so everyone knows the kind of workload they have. I think that a lot of times they do deal with problems but you just aren't able to tell that they dealt with it since some stuff is not visible to us. And when you report stuff with the report button you can't expect to get a PM from a mod saying "I have looked into the post you reported."

If the mods take a lot of time replying to everything that's sent to them, they probably have less time to actually deal with the problems on the board.

I mean I admit I sometimes feel weird though when I PM and don't hear back. XD Then I wonder "Hmm...should I have PMed about that? Is what I PMed about not really against the rules and perhaps I should not report such a thing again in the future?" It does make you wonder that sometimes, but I've been told that there's usually nothing wrong with what I report(as in most of the stuff I report is actually against the rules and something to be dealt with). So I guess I usually get it right when it comes to knowing what to report.

But seriously there are days when I used the report button like 20 times. It's not usually that much but there have been some days like that. And that's just myself, one member. The total of all reports sent in by all the members must be really high and I'm sure some of us even end up reporting the same posts as each other.


----------



## Taxman (Mar 25, 2009)

son_michael said:


> its funny cause I know I sent pm's to taxman before and I think Pek as well...I guess the S mods and Admins only answer the people they consider there friends-__-



I actually have no record of you ever sending me a PM since I've been an admin...and even as an smod, I don't have a PM from you (unless you sent a PM between January and May 2007)...=/

I've sent you a PM with FMA manga packs from the pimping thread back in July...I know I have another request of yours to fulfill...<__<

Unless I for some reason deleted the PM which I wouldn't need to do considering how big my PM box is...I haven't wiped out my PM box since May 2007 =/

but if you have sent me a PM and you still have it, forward it to me so I can look at it.


----------



## Tachikoma (Mar 25, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> Why, because without knowing who negged you, you had no way to revenge neg them or call one of your friends to neg them in return? Because that's the only reason why one would want to know the name of the person leaving a neg.


​


----------



## Sin (Mar 25, 2009)

> The only PMs I actually ignore are the ones with stupid requests like "change my rep bar gold"



So you did get my PM


----------



## Mider T (Mar 25, 2009)

For a hater of BE forums E you sure know alot about them


----------



## son_michael (Mar 25, 2009)

Taxman said:


> hahahaha....I can tell you right now that a majority of reported posts are handled by smods (and now that Halfhearted, Hiroshi, and Kribaby are smods, that fact is goint to be even more true)...though we usually let the OBD mods handle any reports from the OBD.
> 
> No reported post is ignored...they are looked into, but if we don't agree with your report, nothing is done.  We don't _have _to act on each reported post.
> 
> ...





well that's a relief,at least I know you guys actually do look into these problems.







Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Well honestly, PMing the mods that you are friends with probably will be more likely to get you an answer.....it is just human nature to be more likely to reply to your friends than some random person you've never talked to. That's not to say that they shouldn't read PMs from people they don't know but it is human nature to be more likely to respond to the ones from your friends/people you are more familiar with.
> 
> The mods have never said on average how many PMs they get a day. Perhaps they should, so everyone knows the kind of workload they have. I think that a lot of times they do deal with problems but you just aren't able to tell that they dealt with it since some stuff is not visible to us. And when you report stuff with the report button you can't expect to get a PM from a mod saying "I have looked into the post you reported."
> 
> ...



that's true about reporting post's, I understand that they cant respond to every individual post but they should look at every single reported post and according to Taxman they do.






Taxman said:


> I actually have no record of you ever sending me a PM since I've been an admin...and even as an smod, I don't have a PM from you (unless you sent a PM between January and May 2007)...=/
> 
> I've sent you a PM with FMA manga packs from the pimping thread back in July...I know I have another request of yours to fulfill...<__<
> 
> ...



you know before I even joined the forum I sent you a pm about something to do with the main site..{dont remember} but yeah ive been here since 05 so any pm's I sent to you were deffinetly{sp} deleted on both ends. Looking at my Inbox now the latest Admin I reached out to was Reznor like 2 times and I got no answer.



btw im waiting on that request  and I just chalked that thread up as something you liked and that's why you responded{or kinda like your duty since you manage that thread}....but now I know in the future you will respond to my pm's if its a serious matter.


----------



## E (Mar 25, 2009)

Mider T said:


> For a hater of BE forums E you sure know alot about them



well, they were my first forum, then found this place, and then saw the clear difference between here and there 

my awesomeness is too much for that cesspool 

i love you all 










i'm being very vague with the "all" btw


----------



## Taxman (Mar 25, 2009)

> you know before I even joined the forum I sent you a pm about something to do with the main site..{dont remember} but yeah ive been here since 05 so any pm's I sent to you were deffinetly{sp} deleted on both ends. Looking at my Inbox now the latest Admin I reached out to was Reznor like 2 times and I got no answer.



ack...I hope you didn't confuse me with Tazmo if you were sending messages about the main site...my account on the main site is just a normal user who wanted access to naruto manga d/ls xD  (since you say you weren't a member of the forum yet, you wouldn't be able to PM me without joining the forum and you wouldn't have been contacting me since I wasn't even staff in 2005 xD)

I've been a staff member since October 2006 xD

If you were contacting Tazmo, then that makes sense...he rarely responds to anything 

As for Reznor...I'd take a jab at him right now about not responding to PMs (since he went to a rival college, I tend to make fun of him anyway )...but you'd have to understand that Reznor has always had computer issues and ends up coming on intermidently.



> btw im waiting on that request and I just chalked that thread up as something you liked and that's why you responded{or kinda like your duty since you manage that thread}....but now I know in the future you will respond to my pm's if its a serious matter.



your request is being uploaded as we speak...I've let that thread go so downhill...T__T

It was the third pimping project ever made and really the old form (I told people in my sig if they wanted to be on a subscription list for me to send them the new chapter whenever it was released) of it was inspiration for jkingler to come up with the idea for this forum (well that and the music pimping that went on as well).  I still think I'm the biggest FMAtard on this forum (I like to think I completely revitalized the fandom on this forum by spreading the word about how awesome the manga is), so I still feel a necessity to keep up the pimping project...but I've been taking so many "breaks" from it, it's starting to get ridiculous.  

*is still going "ugh" at DarthPotatoes request*


----------



## son_michael (Mar 25, 2009)

Tazmo....yeah I must have confused you with him



sorry about that     btw I think your my new favorite Admin


----------



## Monark (Mar 25, 2009)

@Mider: isn't it great


----------



## Mider T (Mar 25, 2009)

Just doing it to make a point, a tinypic is worth a 1,000 words


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 25, 2009)

everytime that i see this i lol


----------



## Tyler (Mar 25, 2009)

How embarrassing


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 25, 2009)

Last time I got negged.. was because I was hating on Hidan apparently... 

I said.. "Shikamaru was handled well the last few episodes. I'm so proud of our little boy." in a Shikamaru FC. 
Neg.. "I'm so sick of your Hidan hate."


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 25, 2009)

how lame that they neged you in a fc. were they a member nakiro?


----------



## Mider T (Mar 25, 2009)

10 bucks says it was Kaen Mikami


----------



## Taxman (Mar 25, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> everytime that i see this i lol



I hope at one point it was responded to a macro image of Morgan Freeman going "oh...didn't you get the memo?"


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 25, 2009)

Mider T said:


> 10 bucks says it was Kaen Mikami


*gives you $10*


----------



## Shiranui (Mar 25, 2009)

Nakiro said:


> Last time I got negged.. was because I was hating on Hidan apparently...
> 
> I said.. "Shikamaru was handled well the last few episodes. I'm so proud of our little boy." in a Shikamaru FC.
> Neg.. "I'm so sick of your Hidan hate."



I've been negged before by someone who thought I was another member. They rambled on about me calling them hurtful names and harassing them through Private Messages. I was very confused at the time.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 25, 2009)

that must have sucked


----------



## First Tsurugi (Mar 25, 2009)

Has this place devolved into a convo thread? 

Anyway, I vote second option, but I'd rather things stay as they are.

Don't take away mah negs!


----------



## Raiden (Mar 25, 2009)

son_michael said:


> its funny cause I know I sent pm's to taxman before and I think Pek as well...I guess the S mods and Admins only answer the people they consider there friends-__-



Taxman always responds rather quickly whenever I send him ban requests .




Tachikoma_Pilot said:


> Hey Kusu
> 
> Argue as you might, some people actually see NF as their lives \(-.-)/



Right. It's been said countless times, but the thing is that people just don't think that way, hence the problem. Can't say that I see the point of removing negs. People can always flame each other by pm or vistor message. Even if the message by either means is deleted, the damage is still done because the person obviously had to read it. The best thing to do I think is to simply change the "YOU GOT A NEG. TOUGH SHIZ" policy, so that unfair negs can be handled with in SCR.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 25, 2009)

Raiden said:


> Taxman always responds rather quickly whenever I send him ban requests .



Yeah when something is as serious as someone doing something that's obviously ban worthy and porn being posted and what not....I've noticed the mods are extremely fast.

They won't be as fast with deleting a spam post. That's the kind of thing they eventually get around to, but it's not really hurting anyone for it to be there for a bit, unlike porn or something horrible being posted.

lol. On a random note though, I've never PMed a mod and been like "Ban this person."  I just report things, and let the mods decide how to punish.


----------



## Sin (Mar 25, 2009)

> The best thing to do I think is to simply change the "YOU GOT A NEG. TOUGH SHIZ" policy



All rep should work that way. Considering how little actual impact it has on the forum, the rules should say "Do whatever you want with your rep as long as you don't break the basic rules [Flaming, Porn, etc.]"

Be a lot simpler that way


----------



## Byakkö (Mar 26, 2009)

Someone has to decide on the changes, and that someone is the staff. This board has never been and will never become a democracy.




Nakiro said:


> *gives you $10*



I just busted a spleen laughing


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 26, 2009)

well a problem with negs is their comments are sometimes trolling like F*** you or your retarted blah blah blah.

they should at least get in trouble for that since they are breaking a rule. the are asking for revenge neg rep but then they complain to a mod about it.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Mar 26, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> well a problem with negs is their comments are sometimes trolling like F*** you or your retarted blah blah blah.
> 
> they should at least get in trouble for that since they are breaking a rule. the are asking for revenge neg rep but then they complain to a mod about it.



Then at that place in time is when you should contact a moderator about the trolling neg, negger, neggees, etc, and have them assess the situation. 

Negs are negs, and some are funny as hell, just liks pos'.


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Mar 26, 2009)

Wtf is this shit?!?! Why didn't anyone tell me about this!!!???


----------



## Memos (Mar 26, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> Wtf is this shit?!?! Why didn't anyone tell me about this!!!???



Because you ruin all the fun.


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Mar 26, 2009)

So I'm less fun than this suicide-inducing thread?


----------



## Memos (Mar 26, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> So I'm less fun than this suicide-inducing thread?



I'll say no if you rep me.


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Mar 26, 2009)

I was hoping you'd say "yes." I'm trying to move up the list of Most Heinous Crimes Against Humanity. Current standings:

1. The Final Solution
2. This Thread
3. Spy_Smasher
4. The Atlantic Slave Trade


----------



## Memos (Mar 26, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> I was hoping you'd say "yes." I'm trying to move up the list of Most Heinous Crimes Against Humanity. Current standings:
> 
> 1. The Final Solution
> 2. This Thread
> ...



I'll say yes if you rep me. Also, could you get some of your mod buddies, preferably the admins as well to all rep me. Thanks.


----------



## Taxman (Mar 26, 2009)

S_S...you're still behind "watching Manos: the hands of fate"


----------



## Tyler (Mar 26, 2009)

How long is ya'll gone has this poll open 4?

As many members we have nobody voted


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 26, 2009)

Some people didn't vote bacuse the choice they are interested isn't there. I didn't vote.. because I don't think either choice will solve the problem.


----------



## Hiroshi (Mar 26, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> How long is ya'll gone has this poll open 4?


I don't _think _we had a definite time period, we just wanted to have the most possible opinions expressed...



> As many members we have nobody voted


I don't think the vote has changed at all since last I checked yesterday.


----------



## Susano-o (Mar 26, 2009)

hello, Hiroshi

we don't know each other


----------



## Ina (Mar 26, 2009)

Voted for option 1, but I don't think that anything should be changed.


----------



## Yondaime (Mar 26, 2009)

Hiroshi said:


> I don't _think _we had a definite time period, we just wanted to have the most possible opinions expressed...
> 
> 
> I don't think the vote has changed at all since last I checked yesterday.


 Maybe you should stop checking so often.


----------



## Table (Mar 27, 2009)

Keep it as it is!

Don't change something if it isn't broken...

And if people get upset about negs or other people having annoyingly high rep they should realize that rep is simply a number on the internet and just a game!  It's a game, so there should be winners and losers and blah blah blah.  Besides, it is called "reputation" for a reason.  Those with higher rep most likely have a reputation of some sorts on the forum.

Blah.


----------



## Tachikoma (Mar 27, 2009)

Table said:


> Keep it as it is!
> 
> Don't change something if it isn't broken...
> 
> ...


The system is broken though.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Mar 27, 2009)

Well, it can be worse . Invision has a rep system which doesnt show what posts you rep someone and doesnt have any limits to the amount of times someone can be reped, and the reps and messages are also public . That's a slightly worse system.

I say, try puting "leave as is" option into the poll, see what happens .


----------



## kidloco (Mar 27, 2009)

radiohead!!!!

and yondaime, i not send you back you pm and infraction because i know you will not undetanrd what i may to write or just tl,tr

soo if thinkk i scare, im not, is just troublesome and waste of my time, i did what i did need to do, you just kill my 69 in infraction and need wait to get back that. 


but what i said i said wiht mean....


adm, smod, mod, advice

dont make a mistake to kill the neg because have be to long like the same fundament of that forum and kill it, kill everything have be wiht that reps things, just for a little group cry for the negs not mean everything of that orden is failing, have be ok and will be and kill one of the balance can make everything fail or go down the system

stay like the things are, dont let noobs or "mods" get what they want, teh system have be ok and is better that way.


ont make mistake to erace that will make relief the enfermedad, because that will cause not the reliev but the dead or caos


----------



## Lindsay (Mar 27, 2009)

Zaru said:


> "Reputation" as per social definition is something immaterial, uncountable and can't be satisfyingly expressed in a number.





Jetstorm said:


> Rep is the medium that is hardest to regulate and catch. We can better see and deal with everything else. As well as more staff being more capable of dealing with things outside of rep.
> 
> Easier to catch post whores than rep whores. Spammers will be dealt with.





Hiroshi said:


> Well there shouldn't be flaming regardless. Flaming in public is never going to go away, it will be more visible and more easily dealt with.
> 
> Again, as I said before, post whoring is more easily identified and punishable by forum-wide ban.


Reasons why I think all rep should be banned, but it is unlikely that people who love to rep-whore or revenge neg would let that happen.

I'm actually surprised that this thread was was posted by mods of any sort. Kudos to those mods who wanted at least a public discussion on the matter; it is a breath of fresh air to allow criticisms for the rep system to be heard. Good luck on fixing the problems though lol

EDIT: If I had to choose I'd pick the second one xD


----------



## Nekolyte (Mar 27, 2009)

wow I this sounds like a  cool idea! I support this!


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## Senbonzakura (Mar 28, 2009)

rep deosnt really spread rep. i see people with hi rep bars but i ask people if they know them and they say no. people rep and forget. some rep that is. i am a newbie here and have a high reputation in the OBD for never giving up. some say im a big troll but my posts never troll. i check the rules there a lot so i know when i troll. that prooves youcan get a high rep without a rep bar so its purpose isnt there no more.


----------



## Tyler (Mar 28, 2009)

Since its causing so much trouble why not trash the whole rep system?


----------



## Abigail (Mar 28, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> rep deosnt really spread rep. i see people with hi rep bars but i ask people if they know them and they say no. people rep and forget. some rep that is. *i am a newbie here and have a high reputation in the OBD for never giving up. *some say im a big troll but my posts never troll. i check the rules there a lot so i know when i troll. that prooves youcan get a high rep without a rep bar so its purpose isnt there no more.



Your rep in the OBD is not good at all.


On topic I say leave it as it is.


----------



## martryn (Mar 28, 2009)

Honestly, guys, what did I spend four years of my life building for if you're just going to trash the system?  How about you make a few more staff members whose only purpose is to moderate rep usage and seek out rep abuse.  Why the fuck not?  Changing a part of the forums that is as integrated as rep is just because it's troublesome for forum staff is lazy.  Take your own advice, stop being whiney bitches, and either ignore frivolous claims or some down harder on the abusers.  We wouldn't have a problem if the lot of you would have listened to me close to three years ago about the surge in rep abuse again.  Might as well live with it because it doesn't really affect the standard posters going about their daily lives. 

And of course newbies or losers without any rep because, well, they're losers, are going to want radical rep changes.  Fuck, man, poor people want to get rid of money and live off a barter system or some shit, right?  And you mod fucks can run your rep clits anyway you want for whatever ranks you want so you lot hardly give a shit.  Rep, to me, is a distinguishing feature on this forum, and for someone who tries not to abuse the system and is proud of the rep he has, it's insulting for mod fucked rep, like the OP, to come in and talk about how the system is broken.  How the fuck would he know anyways, since he's not a part of it.


----------



## Susano-o (Mar 28, 2009)

I came several bricks. I came here to neg sanin for whining for the last few pages but now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside because of martryn.


----------



## Migooki (Mar 28, 2009)

What is this I don't even (　ﾟдﾟ)


----------



## Senbonzakura (Mar 28, 2009)

well your right martyn but i even saw a girl who said she was neg reped cus her name was too long. how low are those people. maybe you should make mods specifically ment to keep an eye on rep


----------



## Xion (Mar 28, 2009)

Option 1 and 2 = Equality.

Equality = Communism.

Communism = Bad.

*This chain of deductive logic has been brought to you by a capitalist.*


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## Vanity (Mar 28, 2009)

martryn said:


> Honestly, guys, what did I spend four years of my life building for if you're just going to trash the system?  How about you make a few more staff members whose only purpose is to moderate rep usage and seek out rep abuse.  Why the fuck not?  Changing a part of the forums that is as integrated as rep is just because it's troublesome for forum staff is lazy.  Take your own advice, stop being whiney bitches, and either ignore frivolous claims or some down harder on the abusers.  We wouldn't have a problem if the lot of you would have listened to me close to three years ago about the surge in rep abuse again.  Might as well live with it because it doesn't really affect the standard posters going about their daily lives.
> 
> And of course newbies or losers without any rep because, well, they're losers, are going to want radical rep changes.  Fuck, man, poor people want to get rid of money and live off a barter system or some shit, right?  And you mod fucks can run your rep clits anyway you want for whatever ranks you want so you lot hardly give a shit.  Rep, to me, is a distinguishing feature on this forum, and for someone who tries not to abuse the system and is proud of the rep he has, it's insulting for mod fucked rep, like the OP, to come in and talk about how the system is broken.  How the fuck would he know anyways, since he's not a part of it.



I admit that you have a point there.


----------



## C-Moon (Mar 28, 2009)

martryn said:


> Honestly, guys, what did I spend four years of my life building for if you're just going to trash the system?  How about you make a few more staff members whose only purpose is to moderate rep usage and seek out rep abuse.  Why the fuck not?  Changing a part of the forums that is as integrated as rep is just because it's troublesome for forum staff is lazy.  Take your own advice, stop being whiney bitches, and either ignore frivolous claims or some down harder on the abusers.  We wouldn't have a problem if the lot of you would have listened to me close to three years ago about the surge in rep abuse again.  Might as well live with it because it doesn't really affect the standard posters going about their daily lives.
> 
> And of course newbies or losers without any rep because, well, they're losers, are going to want radical rep changes.  Fuck, man, poor people want to get rid of money and live off a barter system or some shit, right?  And you mod fucks can run your rep clits anyway you want for whatever ranks you want so you lot hardly give a shit.  Rep, to me, is a distinguishing feature on this forum, and for someone who tries not to abuse the system and is proud of the rep he has, it's insulting for mod fucked rep, like the OP, to come in and talk about how the system is broken.  How the fuck would he know anyways, since he's not a part of it.



This is a good post.


----------



## Ral (Mar 28, 2009)

Removing Neg rep would make people rage even more. IMO

Kinda defeats the purpose of having a rep system without the negative rep being there.

*Bad response to a pos=/=pos rep
Good response to a post=pos rep*

Even thought I could give one wits about rep, I'm more of the "I like how you think" type of person.

I most honestly agree with martryn's post, its the best response I've heard yet and it's something I would never have the guts to say but marty did it.


----------



## bitesize (Mar 28, 2009)

lol @ comparing rep to currency.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 28, 2009)

martryn said:


> Honestly, guys, what did I spend four years of my life building for if you're just going to trash the system?  How about you make a few more staff members whose only purpose is to moderate rep usage and seek out rep abuse.  Why the fuck not?  Changing a part of the forums that is as integrated as rep is just because it's troublesome for forum staff is lazy.  Take your own advice, stop being whiney bitches, and either ignore frivolous claims or some down harder on the abusers.  We wouldn't have a problem if the lot of you would have listened to me close to three years ago about the surge in rep abuse again.  Might as well live with it because it doesn't really affect the standard posters going about their daily lives.
> 
> And of course newbies or losers without any rep because, well, they're losers, are going to want radical rep changes.  Fuck, man, poor people want to get rid of money and live off a barter system or some shit, right?  And you mod fucks can run your rep clits anyway you want for whatever ranks you want so you lot hardly give a shit.  Rep, to me, is a distinguishing feature on this forum, and for someone who tries not to abuse the system and is proud of the rep he has, it's insulting for mod fucked rep, like the OP, to come in and talk about how the system is broken.  How the fuck would he know anyways, since he's not a part of it.


oh man, this thread was needing a post like this one


----------



## Elle (Mar 28, 2009)

Agree - Martyn's post makes some good points.


----------



## Monark (Mar 28, 2009)

Martryn didn't say anything that wasn't already said in here before. He just put more force into it then the others. 

But honestly, I don't understand why people are freaking out over this, when it's not even a guarantee that this shit's going to happen. I say, wait for the hammer to fall, _then_ complain.


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 28, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> I was hoping you'd say "yes." I'm trying to move up the list of Most Heinous Crimes Against Humanity. Current standings:
> 
> 1. The Final Solution
> 2. This Thread
> ...



Oh, you're just between Anthrax and Jeph Loeb


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't even see why anyone cares for rep. Gives them a feeling of "power"?


----------



## Monark (Mar 28, 2009)

By the way, that bathhouse pic needs to be changed back to the modcat. ceilingnaruto is too creepy.


----------



## C-Moon (Mar 28, 2009)

He did it.


----------



## Monark (Mar 28, 2009)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> He did it.



I know this. 

which is why it needs to be changed back.

goddammit sunny


----------



## Cirus (Mar 28, 2009)

Malmsey said:


> Martryn didn't say anything that wasn't already said in here before. He just put more force into it then the others.
> 
> *But honestly, I don't understand why people are freaking out over this, when it's not even a guarantee that this shit's going to happen. I say, wait for the hammer to fall, then complain*.


 Thing is once the hammer falls then it will be to late.  Which is why people do a preimptive approach to this type of deal.


----------



## Monark (Mar 28, 2009)

Cirus said:


> Thing is once the hammer falls then it will be to late.  Which is why people do a preimptive approach to this type of deal.



There's always the constructive criticism option. I'm not talking about the people who disagree with the choices (poll) given and give alternate solutions. I'm talking about the people who say that it's dumb, and that the mods/staff can't do that, or that it just isn't fair. 

and I wasn't disagreeing with Martryn. I actually said the same things at the beginning of this convo. 

But I understand and agree with your point. Well-taken.


----------



## ScreenXSurfer (Mar 28, 2009)

What the hell, where is the "keep rep as it is." option? Re-do poll, and include that.


----------



## Ryuk (Mar 28, 2009)

get rid of ranks :/


----------



## Maffy the Love Doctor (Mar 29, 2009)

This is obviously an April Fool's joke.


----------



## Felix (Mar 29, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> What the hell, where is the "keep rep as it is." option? Re-do poll, and include that.



Did you even read the OP?


----------



## Kanai (Mar 29, 2009)

Maffy the Love Doctor said:


> This is obviously an April Fool's joke.



 I totally second that.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 29, 2009)

Ryuk said:


> get rid of ranks :/



If all the ranks are removed there's no point in keeping rep at all.



Maffy the Love Doctor said:


> This is obviously an April Fool's joke.



lol. Yeah, maybe it is. We'll see if the mods come in here on April Fool's and say that.


----------



## Setoshi (Mar 30, 2009)

Remove rep just so I can see 90% of the users here freak out and leave NF.

Oh this is a possible april fools joke.

You guys make it seem like with all the rep you achieve you can put that shit on your resume or something.


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 30, 2009)

setomaven said:


> Remove rep just so I can see 90% of the users here freak out and leave NF.
> 
> Oh this is a possible april fools joke.
> 
> You guys make it seem like with all the rep you achieve you can put that shit on your resume or something.


90% of the people would leave forums because there would be no more rep system? I find that laughable.

If that's the only reason they are here for, they might as well leave.


----------



## E (Mar 30, 2009)

setomaven said:


> You guys make it seem like with all the rep you achieve you can put that shit on your resume or something.



you mean you can't??? 

i wouldn't know, i've never really ever needed to make a resume in my life, and i joined NF after i got my current job


----------



## Spanish Hoffkage (Mar 30, 2009)

in 2007 my job was NF 

I had two windows opened all day, the one with my extra easily job and NF

Guess the one with priority 

Meaning: I literally worked and liked the rep shit back that time so dont change shit


----------



## Mider T (Mar 30, 2009)

I can see the noobs negging Tazmo now.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 30, 2009)

i have noticed some funny shit here, like the ones that want the second option most likely have low rep ranks and the ones that want it to stay the same are like elysian+, sure there are exceptions, but is that only coincidence? 

i dont wanna loose my rank/rep because some members keep fighting and negging each other

nor because ppl with low rep ranks think that the rep system is injust.


i worked for my rep in this "injust" system, you dont have the right to come here and want it to change if you didnt work for yours


----------



## son_michael (Mar 30, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> i have noticed some funny shit here, like the ones that want the second option most likely have low rep ranks and the ones that want it to stay the same are like elysian+, sure there are exceptions, but is that only coincidence?
> 
> i dont wanna loose my rank/rep because some members keep fighting and negging each other
> 
> ...




oh I wonder just how much you 'worked" for your rep{sasuke sets/sasuketards gave you all your rep and you know it}



you seemed to instantly jump from guardian of faith to what you are now and likewise with your post count.....I call shenanigans


----------



## TheoDerek (Mar 30, 2009)

I think the reputation system should be dealt away with all together.

I think it is a flawed system that detracts from the actual point of the forum, which is discussion.  I'm sure there are plenty of people that post what they think others want to hear as opposed to what they actually think, just for the sole purpose of obtaining rep.

It's pitiful

Let your posts define who you are, not some lame green bar and a silly title.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 30, 2009)

son_michael said:


> oh I wonder just how much you 'worked" for your rep{sasuke sets/sasuketards gave you all your rep and you know it}
> 
> 
> 
> you seemed to instantly jump from guardian of faith to what you are now and likewise with your post count.....I call shenanigans





not only sasuketards used to rep me for my sets, even sasuke haters did, be sure that its not because it had sasuke in it 

i make lulz threads (like the ones i used to do in the library), editions (in the blender/library), i make sigs/avatars for ppl, and i make my own sets :B

when i started to leave the library i was elysian so far


----------



## Tyler (Mar 30, 2009)

Uchiha Madara said:


> I think the reputation system should be dealt away with all together.
> 
> I think it is a flawed system that detracts from the actual point of the forum, which is discussion. * I'm sure there are plenty of people that post what they think others want to hear as opposed to what they actually think, just for the sole purpose of obtaining rep.*
> 
> ...



This is true. But I don't do that. I say what the fuck I want and if someone negs me over it, oh well 

Better believe a week later im negging them back 

lolz jk, i don't revenge neg


----------



## Mider T (Mar 30, 2009)

son_michael said:


> oh I wonder just how much you 'worked" for your rep{sasuke sets/sasuketards gave you all your rep and you know it}
> 
> 
> 
> you seemed to instantly jump from guardian of faith to what you are now and likewise with your post count.....I call shenanigans



You call shenanigans on anyone who gets up at least a rep rank or 1,000 posts in under 4 years.


----------



## Sin (Mar 30, 2009)

setomaven said:


> Remove rep just so I can see 90% of the users here freak out and leave NF.
> 
> Oh this is a possible april fools joke.
> 
> You guys make it seem like with all the rep you achieve you can put that shit on your resume or something.


I have "10,000+ posts on a forum about a TV show for 13 year olds" as my #1 special talent, thankyouverymuch


----------



## Vanity (Mar 30, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> not only sasuketards used to rep me for my sets, even sasuke haters did, be sure that its not because it had sasuke in it
> 
> i make lulz threads (like the ones i used to do in the library), editions (in the blender/library), i make sigs/avatars for ppl, and i make my own sets :B
> 
> when i started to leave the library i was elysian so far



She speaks the truth....I hate Sasuke and yet I would rep Jeanne for her sets because they are some of the funniest sets I've ever seen on NF in a lot of cases.

Jeanne is cool. Even Sasuke haters like me like her. XD


----------



## son_michael (Mar 30, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> She speaks the truth....I hate Sasuke and yet I would rep Jeanne for her sets because they are some of the funniest sets I've ever seen on NF in a lot of cases.
> 
> Jeanne is cool. Even Sasuke haters like me like her. XD



yea Jeanne is cool, everybody loves her


----------



## Taco (Mar 31, 2009)

My vote is for removing all rep since there is no such thing as earning your rep on NF.



nimblnymph said:


> I honestly don't see the point in having rep anyway.  *It basically boils down to a popularity contest and seems to cause more problems than it's actually worth.*  Why not just get rid of the system completely?  That would solve all the problems at once.  No whores, no elitism, no flaming... less work for the admins.



Took the words right out of my mouth. As I said, people don't earn their rep anymore.


----------



## C-Moon (Mar 31, 2009)

If anything, removing rep makes flames more public and trolls can do almost whatever they wish with less reprisal. The workload doesn't change.


----------



## Tobirama (Mar 31, 2009)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> If anything, removing rep makes flames more public and trolls can do almost whatever they wish with less reprisal.



So, basically, a funner place.


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 31, 2009)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> If anything, removing rep makes flames more public and trolls can do almost whatever they wish with less reprisal. The workload doesn't change.



Why are you complaining?

Flaming and trolling is the absolute only thing you contribute to this forum.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 31, 2009)

Forbidden Truth said:


> My vote is for removing all rep since there is no such thing as earning your rep on NF.



Wrong, you just have to know how to do it rite.


----------



## Memos (Mar 31, 2009)

There are people on here who make sets, who make very funny threads, who help others and so on. People DO earn rep. people need to shut up about how people with high rep apparently rep whore and nothing else.


----------



## Vanity (Mar 31, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> There are people on here who make sets, who make very funny threads, who help others and so on. People DO earn rep. people need to shut up about how people with high rep apparently rep whore and nothing else.



Yeah having high rep doesn't = repwhore.

I've Divine but I didn't whore for any of it. I post a lot without spamming and more posts = more posts you've made that someone could potentially rep you for.

There are also a lot of sections where posts don't count and some people post a lot in there so they have more posts than what it looks like. I have a lot more posts than what it looks like too since I have over 6,000 posts in the Deidara FC itself and various posts in other sections that don't count.

Someone who's as active as me, helps people out in Questions and Complaints, etc, is likely to have pretty high rep.

I also scanned the whole data book before and although I took the scans down later because a friend didn't like that I had scanned the data book....while they were up I got a LOT of rep for that.

It's kind of annoying how people assume that everyone who's LSP or higher is some kind of repwhore.

I have wondered how some other people skyrocket in rep even faster but I guess there are probably logical reasons since anyone with that much rep has probably been investigated by the mods at some point already and obviously there was nothing shady about it.


----------



## Jeαnne (Mar 31, 2009)

Forbidden Truth said:


> there is no such thing as earning your rep on NF.



really? 



Kusuriuri said:


> There are people on here who make sets, who make very funny threads, who help others and so on. People DO earn rep. people need to shut up about how people with high rep apparently rep whore and nothing else.



i agree


----------



## Monark (Mar 31, 2009)

Jeαnne said:


> really?
> 
> 
> 
> i agree



I agree too.


now visit my shop.


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Mar 31, 2009)

Whatever happened to reputation being about... you know, being known by other members?

Since when is reputation measured by a number and a colour? That's what I want to know.

Reputation would exist the same way even if the bar was removed - the people who are popular, for one reason or another, will be well known throughout their section, or even the entire forum. If someone does nothing at all, no one is going to know or remember them. Right?

People who say they only care about the bar because it shows how good or bad of a person you are on the forum is full of shit. I know plenty of idiots and assholes with green bars, and I've known some nice people who have been negged into the red. A bar doesn't represent who you are, your actions and deeds on the forum do - and members remember you based on those. You make sets? Funny threads? Pimping projects? Then people are going to know and remember you regardless of whether or not you're "Ascendant".

In fact, there are people who have massive reps and stay in a single section. These people are hardly known throughout the forum, while there may be another member with much less rep but posts in 6 different sections and therefore is much better known around. So despite the number difference, who is likely to have the actual better reputation as a member? Likely the one who visits more than a single section. It's in this situation that the current reputation completely fails, because a group of 10 people can keep repping each other until they all become Divine, while someone who's spent three years helping noobs and posting in FC's and other less popular sections may only make Celestial. Is the one who is Divine the better member or poster? Not likely. Is he as well known? Not likely. So how can he have a greater reputation? He can't.

The rep bar system is bad and you should feel bad for liking it. And if you are one of those people who feel it's existence is necessary to your every-day forum life, then chances are you're insecure about yourself and need a number to remind you that people like you.


----------



## Nakiro (Mar 31, 2009)

It's funny cause wherever you go, you're most likely going to find everyone with a full rep bar. Doesn't really tell you much about the person.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 31, 2009)

Nakiro said:


> It's funny cause wherever you go, you're most likely going to find everyone with a full rep bar. Doesn't really tell you much about the person.



That's why you hover for the rank.


----------



## Memos (Apr 1, 2009)

Whenever I get some rep points I immediately call some friends over so we can celebrate. I go to a club to meet some girls and show off my rep points. The better my repuation on NF, the better I do in my real life. Once a mod rep'd me and so I showed that to my boss and he gave me a promotion. I now earn loads more cash money because someone was nice enough to recognise that I am deserving of a good life.

I got neg'd once and my GF left me and I got hit by a car. Remember people, neg'ing people can seriously harm their health and lead to a life of abject humiliation, loss of earnings, family members and other such shit.


----------



## Monark (Apr 1, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> Whatever happened to reputation being about... you know, being known by other members?
> 
> Since when is reputation measured by a number and a colour? That's what I want to know.
> 
> ...



Mind if I sig this?


----------



## Vanity (Apr 1, 2009)

Malmsey said:


> Mind if I sig this?



Too bad that's probably too much text to sig even if it's tagged since there's a text limit in sigs.


----------



## Susano-o (Apr 1, 2009)

who ITT loves me?


----------



## Funlover378 (Apr 1, 2009)

Thanks of the explanation.


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Apr 1, 2009)

April Fools, fuckers!


----------



## Vanity (Apr 1, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> April Fools, fuckers!



Considering how you joke arounda lot though, Spy Smasher....I'm never sure when to take you seriously. XD


----------



## son_michael (Apr 1, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Considering how you joke arounda lot though, Spy Smasher....I'm never sure when to take you seriously. XD



he wants it to be an aprils fools joke but its not


----------



## Emasculation Storm (Apr 1, 2009)

His April Fools is his claim that this is an April Fools joke.


----------



## Monark (Apr 1, 2009)

Ejaculation Storm said:


> His April Fools is his claim that this is an April Fools joke.



Though I still see visions of the Kool-Aid man episode of Family Guy.


----------



## Kokaku (Apr 1, 2009)

Susano-o said:


> who ITT loves me?



:c :c  :c :c


----------



## Jeαnne (Apr 1, 2009)

Susano-o said:


> who ITT loves me?


i do sussy 



Spy_Smasher said:


> April Fools, fuckers!



you are not getting me with this one


----------



## Sephiroth (Apr 1, 2009)




----------



## Susano-o (Apr 1, 2009)

the Blender's answer


is beautiful


----------



## Mider T (Apr 1, 2009)

Except for the old banana part


----------



## fakund1to (Apr 1, 2009)

I don't really care either way, if i had to choose i'd say option 2 because it makes more sense to me. But someone posted a good choice, take away the pos rep, people can only decrease their power.


----------



## Tyler (Apr 4, 2009)

Okay so now what? Obviously these are all the votes were gonna get.


----------



## Kiba (Apr 4, 2009)

Well don't matter to me I'm not active anyway.


----------



## Memos (Apr 5, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Okay so now what? Obviously these are all the votes were gonna get.



Go and read the OP.


----------



## Laex (Apr 5, 2009)

now that picture tells all


----------



## Susano-o (Apr 5, 2009)

as long as the pie itself is green


but I think Hollie makes a good point there 

surprised no one realized this before /actually quite serious lol


----------



## Freija (Apr 5, 2009)

So your solution to the rep inflation is to remove the only thing that bump it down a notch?

You guys do realize how utterly stupid this sounds ? Or is it that you're just extremely lazy and don't feel like doing what you were modded to do in the first place? 

Either way... LOL!


----------



## Marmite. (Apr 5, 2009)

Untrue. My friend was permanently banned after he received a neg. :ho


----------



## Felt (Apr 5, 2009)

That was merely a coincedence.


----------



## Yondaime (Apr 5, 2009)

Oh man, this thread is still alive? o___O


----------



## Vanity (Apr 5, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Oh man, this thread is still alive? o___O



It will probably remain alive until the mods confirm that this thread was an April Fool's joke or until it's closed. :S

I know that Spy Smasher came in and said it was an April Fool's joke....but I don't think a lot of people feel confident with that because of how he jokes around a lot.


----------



## Jeαnne (Apr 5, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Oh man, this thread is still alive? o___O


threads about rep will always stay alive on NF, unless its locked


----------



## Memos (Apr 5, 2009)

Hey, guys, do you know how you let a thread die? You don't post in it


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Apr 5, 2009)

April Fools!


----------



## Yondaime (Apr 5, 2009)

Merry Christmas!


----------



## Memos (Apr 5, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> April Fools!





Yondaime said:


> Merry Christmas!



ur doin it rong!!



now i want to see a Jeanne version of this


----------



## Sin (Apr 5, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> April Fools!


I don't feel confident with that because of how you joke around a lot.


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Apr 5, 2009)

I also don't feel confident with that.


----------



## Felt (Apr 5, 2009)

You don't make friends with salad.


----------



## Memos (Apr 5, 2009)

Hollie said:


> You don't make friends with salad.



You make friends by to-

never mind


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Apr 5, 2009)

Hollie said:


> You don't make friends with salad.


We'll always have Paris.


----------



## Freija (Apr 5, 2009)

Lame april joke, lacking style staff...lacking style.


----------



## Banhammer (Apr 5, 2009)

Spy what have you been up to you goddamned fartist?


----------



## Vanity (Apr 5, 2009)

Freija the Dick said:


> Lame april joke, lacking style staff...lacking style.



What Taxman did for April Fool's was better.


----------



## Ryan (Apr 5, 2009)

I thought it was good, actually. Nearly everyone posted in this thread.

It caused drama everywhere.


----------



## Tobirama (Apr 5, 2009)

NarutuFan Forums

The no fun zone.


----------



## Jeαnne (Apr 5, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> ur doin it rong!!
> 
> 
> 
> now i want to see a Jeanne version of this


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Apr 5, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Spy what have you been up to you goddamned fartist?


Pretty much whatever I want to, now that I think about it. 

Power abuse or just coincidence?


----------



## Fang (Apr 5, 2009)

so i cant assert my authority over the lord of dorks dongs anymore?


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Apr 5, 2009)

Well, I'd hate for you to use your incredibly gay force powers on me, so ... I'll do what I'm told.


----------



## Nakiro (Apr 5, 2009)

Seal the rep for everyone, everyone is happy. 
By everyone, I mean me and few other people.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Apr 8, 2009)

Wha...?  Can't you just put a cap on negging power?


----------



## Xion (Apr 8, 2009)

Oh I get it. This was an early April Fools' jokes by the mods.

Best joke ever! Great job guys. Do well next year too.


----------



## Tobirama (Apr 9, 2009)

I got sealed for "neg abuse" this is an outrage why I oughtta


----------



## Toru Hidaka (Apr 9, 2009)

The second option makes more sense than the first to me


----------



## faithless (Apr 9, 2009)

Toru Hidaka said:


> The second option makes more sense than the first to me



oh gawd


----------



## Seraphim (Apr 10, 2009)

Saw this one coming years ago. All it takes is for a bunch of fools to ruin a good system for everyone else.
*sighs* Good call guys


----------



## Eustass (Apr 10, 2009)

nice joke u guys (even if it kinda sucked)


----------



## Trolli (Apr 11, 2009)

has this been made offical yet


----------



## Hagen (Apr 15, 2009)

i finally got my rep seal 

but i cant wait until i have my rep back, so i can revenge neg trolls again 
(sorry, i tend to break rules when i find them very stupid) 

that way i'll be able to gain my perm rep seal eventually 

and leave this garbage rep system behind for good. i invite everyone to do the same and finally live without stress and e-drama


----------



## Yondaime (Apr 15, 2009)

Locard said:


> i finally got my rep seal
> 
> but i cant wait until i have my rep back, so i can revenge neg trolls again
> (sorry, i tend to break rules when i find them very stupid)
> ...


Ok, why not just ask for a permanent rep seal?


----------



## Felt (Apr 15, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Ok, why not just ask for a permanent rep seal?



Because then he couldn't be hypocritical.


----------



## Raiden (Apr 15, 2009)

Somebody give that man a medal.


----------



## Hagen (Apr 15, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> Ok, why not just ask for a permanent rep seal?


i dont want to cheat my way to it 

i want to gain it with effort, showing my disdain for the system while am at it, trying to encourage others to do the same. that'd be more fullfilling 

but even if im outta the system, im gonna keep complaining and encouraging others to trash it 

because i wont be completely satisfied until the rep system dies so the forums can become a better place for all 



stop all the hate, the whoring, the e-drama, the elitism, the derailed threads and all the shit the system provokes! join the anti-rep system FC today


----------



## Memos (Apr 15, 2009)

Locard said:


> i dont want to cheat my way to it
> 
> i want to gain it with effort, showing my disdain for the system while am at it, trying to encourage others to do the same. that'd be more fullfilling
> 
> ...



Or maybe you could STFU about it. That would really show everyone you don't care about it and it's nothing worthy of your time or whatever the bullshit you're spouting off is.


----------



## Sin (Apr 15, 2009)

Locard said:


> i dont want to cheat my way to it
> 
> i want to gain it with effort, showing my disdain for the system while am at it, trying to encourage others to do the same. that'd be more fullfilling
> 
> ...


Not to offend you or anything, but a revenge negging, sealed Luminary isn't going to change anyone's minds about rep.


----------



## Yondaime (Apr 15, 2009)

Locard said:


> i dont want to cheat my way to it
> 
> i want to gain it with effort, showing my disdain for the system while am at it, trying to encourage others to do the same. that'd be more fullfilling
> 
> ...


So wait, all of this rebellion over a little green bar? That doesn't tell us anything about the rep system, but a lot about you...........


----------



## Hagen (Apr 15, 2009)

Kusuriuri said:


> Or maybe you could STFU about it. That would really show everyone you don't care about it and it's nothing worthy of your time or whatever the bullshit you're spouting off is.


Who said i dont care?

I obviously care A LOT about it

In the sense that i *DISLIKE IT*. that its existence bothers me and i want it to die 

because i believe the forums would be better without it. capice?




Sin said:


> Not to offend you or anything, but a revenge negging, sealed Luminary isn't going to change anyone's minds about rep.


oh yeah, i forgot if you dont have a very high rep rank your opinion doesnt count around here. i should wait until i become a sans pereli or something, but that would take countless years since i dont repwhore or post in the blender, so luminary shall do it

its true a massive spammer or troll with very high rep rank >>> a good poster with low rep rank in the eyes of ppl. one of the many wonders of the system 



Yondaime said:


> So wait, all of this rebellion over a little green bar? That doesn't tell us anything about the rep system, but a lot about you...........


trying to get me into ad hominems here? dont be a bad example sir 

i just wholeheartedly believe the forums would be a better place without a rep system and im willing to support and encourage its destruction, if i can


----------



## Sin (Apr 15, 2009)

> oh yeah, i forgot if you dont have a very high rep rank your opinion doesnt count around here. i should wait until i become a sans pereli or something, but that would take countless years since i dont repwhore or post in the blender, so luminary shall do it
> 
> its true a massive spammer or troll with very high rep rank >>> a good poster with low rep rank in the eyes of ppl. one of the many wonders of the system



When you're trying to convince people that rep is stupid, not having much at all does weaken your point quite a bit, yeah 

The rest of your post has nothing to do with what I was talking about, so I'll ignore it.


----------



## Hagen (Apr 15, 2009)

Sin said:


> When you're trying to convince people that rep is stupid, not having much at all does weaken your point quite a bit, yeah


you're right about that. but like i said before, i'd need to wait years to be celestial or something you would listen to, (since i've never tried to earn rep in any way).I've been against the system since the beginning, when i only had a green square, i am now, and i always gonna be, because it sucks


----------



## Yondaime (Apr 15, 2009)

Locard said:


> you're right about that. but like i said before, i'd need to wait years to be celestial or something you would listen to, (since i've never tried to earn rep in any way).I've been against the system since the beginning, when i only had a green square, i am now, and i always gonna be, because it sucks


 So you are under the impression that people with rep ranks higher than you have earned them on purpose? There is such a thing as getting rep for being a great poster you know. You don't have to go around rep whoring and asking for it.


----------



## Memos (Apr 15, 2009)

Locard said:


> you're right about that. but like i said before, i'd need to wait years to be celestial or something you would listen to, (since i've never tried to earn rep in any way).I've been against the system since the beginning, when i only had a green square, i am now, and i always gonna be, because it sucks



I don't hang around in any of the "rep" areas and I was a transcendant in a few months and I definitely wasn't rep-whoring. It really doesn't matter how much rep you have as long as long as you speak your mind well.

The reason Sin mentioned people not taking the point seriously from a celestial is because celestial is a low rank and people tend to follow the thinking that if you have high rep, you love the rep system, and if you have low rep, you will dislike it. Though, not for the way it works but because you have low rep.

If someone like Zaru, Hollie or Susano-o came in here and spoke about rep the way you did, people would take them more at their word seeing as they would have no reason to dislike the system other than what it is.

Capice?


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## Felt (Apr 15, 2009)

I don't think I can take anyone seriously who abuses the system and then claims it's stupid.


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## Hagen (Apr 16, 2009)

Yondaime said:


> So you are under the impression that people with rep ranks higher than you have earned them on purpose? There is such a thing as getting rep for being a great poster you know. You don't have to go around rep whoring and asking for it


browse this thread and you'll find a lot of ppl complaining they dont want all their EFFORT earning their high rep rank would go to waste 

key word: effort 

by saying that, its a given they have done lots of things having the goal of winning  rep in mind. the method can vary depending on each person
some ppl repwhore with their circle of friends, other try desperately to be funny, make pimping threads, post in FCs, the blender, and a long etc, always caring more for the rep they earn of lose than for the forum experience, and thats something i disagree with




Kusuriuri said:


> I don't hang around in any of the "rep" areas and I was a transcendant in a few months and I definitely wasn't rep-whoring. It really doesn't matter how much rep you have as long as long as you speak your mind well.
> 
> The reason Sin mentioned people not taking the point seriously from a celestial is because celestial is a low rank and people tend to follow the thinking that if you have high rep, you love the rep system, and if you have low rep, you will dislike it. Though, not for the way it works but because you have low rep.
> 
> ...


oh, dont blame me for not knowing celestial was a low rank, i dont know the ranking well (remember, i've never being fond of it) and i usually tend to avoid threads and conversations about rep. 

see, i post in others forums that dont have a rep system and i think that makes them more enjoyable. 

i think that's the reason im not a very frequent poster in NF
(see my postcount and join date, and no, i never post in the blender and barely post in FCs, so dont think i have like +4000 more posts that didnt count)

in a forum without rep system, people focuses in what forums are supposed to be: to have fun. people listen to reasons an arguements rather than the colors of bars or ranks. people are not afraid to speak their mind because of fear of negz, there are no derailed threads with ppl whining about their latest neg or cocky elitists full of themselves having e-orgasms every time they turn a noob's bar red. 

the rep system doesnt contribute anything really to the forums excepting e-drama

that's why it should be destroyed 



Hollie said:


> I don't think I can take anyone seriously who abuses the system and then claims it's stupid.


i "abuse it" because it doesnt deserve respect to begin with 

but i certainly understand your position, you've made _lots of effort_ to keep a high rep rank, havent you?

you ppl shall think about the times you logged the forums to have fun, and spent more time thinking and worrying about the useless bar instead. think about all the e-drama you've gone through and see the waste of time it really is.


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## Memos (Apr 16, 2009)

Locard said:


> browse this thread and you'll find a lot of ppl complaining they dont want all their EFFORT earning their high rep rank would go to waste
> 
> key word: effort
> 
> ...



The way you talk makes it sound like you think you are right and everyone else is wrong. The thing you have to understand is that everyone on here that does the things you listed do them because they want to do them. Rep isn't some magical thing that captures your soul and corrupts it by forcing you to try and be funny and post in FC's or the blender.

Posting in an FC doesn't automatically quantify you as a rep-whore or even means you are there in the hope that someone will start rep-whoring with you. You join an FC because, wait for it.....beccause you are a fan....of the subject of the FC you are posting in...am I making any sense or have I lost you with my illogical reasoning?

People post in the Blender because it's got a certain community and it allows you to do thing in there which you can't in any other part of the forum. It just so happens that rep is one of the things that they joke about with

I have lurked the blender at times and if you did so too, you would see that some threads in there and what people do in there sometimes deserve a lot of rep.

People choose to do what they do on the forums for whatever their reasons are. Who are you to tell them they are wrong when it is simply an online forum with no bearing on real life.


> oh, dont blame me for not knowing celestial was a low rank, i dont know the ranking well (remember, i've never being fond of it) and i usually tend to avoid threads and conversations about rep.
> 
> see, i post in others forums that dont have a rep system and i think that makes them more enjoyable.
> 
> ...


I *will* blame you for not knowing about the rep ranks. You seem to blather on about something you know very little about and yet feel very strongly about. If you go around making such speech-like posts as the one above, maybe you should at least bother to learn about the subject which you are trying to talk about.

*This* is why people wont take you seriously. What you are doing is basically trolling. It is akin to going into a thread and telling everyone the anime/manga/game/movie or whatever the thread is about is bad and they are wrong for liking it

The word is 'opinion', go and look it up.

BTW, if you are afraid to speak your mind on an internet forum because someone may alter something as meaningless as your rep, there is seriously something wrong with you. Don't blame the rep system, blame the people who fear the rep system.


> i "abuse it" because it doesnt deserve respect to begin with
> 
> but i certainly understand your position, you've made _lots of effort_ to keep a high rep rank, havent you?
> 
> you ppl shall think about the times you logged the forums to have fun, and spent more time thinking and worrying about the useless bar instead. think about all the e-drama you've gone through and see the waste of time it really is.


So people with high rank do not enjoy their tme on the forums? Get a clue

If you don't like the forum or the rep system, shut it off and go on about your business and don't bother everyone else about it and for god's sake, stop shoving your opinions down other people's throats. It makes you seem like a crazy person.

If you really dislike the forum compared to other ones due to rep, you are free to leave.


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## Felt (Apr 16, 2009)

Locard said:


> i "abuse it" because it doesnt deserve respect to begin with
> 
> but i certainly understand your position, you've made _lots of effort_ to keep a high rep rank, havent you?
> 
> you ppl shall think about the times you logged the forums to have fun, and spent more time thinking and worrying about the useless bar instead. think about all the e-drama you've gone through and see the waste of time it really is.



Wouldn't it be best to just leave it alone completely then?  You are giving it far too much attention for something you supposedly don't like.  Infact by abusing it you are recognising its use, taking advantage of something other people enjoy and ruining it for them.  Do you hate other people so much that you are willing to get rid of something they enjoy? Rather than just ignoring it all.


Oh and lots of effort?  You don't know the meaning of the word.

- I have a shop, where I make avatars and sigs for other people on the board.
- I have made various Joke manga for the enjoyment of others.
- I created the NF Awards, for a bit of fun to see what (mainly the plaza) thought of its members, again people enjoyed taking part in it and it made me happy.

I could go on, but you don't care.

These are the sort of things the rep system was designed for, yes?

None of these I asked for rep in, but some people felt I deserved it, fair enough.  I would still continue doing these without rep, but alot of people wouldn't...maybe
These things improve the forums considerably, unlike your constant whining and abusing of the rep system.  I try to make NF a better place for others, not just myself because in the end it's not just me that matters, just like it is not just YOU.

I log on NF to have a good time, if rep was so unenjoyable for me then I would have stopped caring long ago, but it's not, I love it.  I rarely notice any drama revolving around it, at least it doesn't bother me anyway.  Any e-drama I have suffered is more on my gender and my personality.

I like the messages, I like the fact that other people can approve of my posts without having to spam a topic with a useless post to tell me, I like how the numbers increase so I can get to the next goal, I just like it.

Maybe if you, yes *YOU *took it less seriously you would enjoy it more.  People say that the ones with the most rep take it most seriouslt, but that isn't true at all.  We enjoy it, we want it to stay, but take it seriously?  Not really...  

Of course you may say that this message is way too aggressive for someone who doesn't take it seriously, but that's the point.  You are trying to destroy what I like.  How would you like it if someone was trying to destroy something you like, simply because they don't personally like it?


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## Spy_Smasher (Apr 16, 2009)

I need to neg the last two posts in this thread and I've run out of rep for today. I'll do it tomorrow if I can remember. Hopefully we don't remove neg rep before then.


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## E (Apr 16, 2009)

i really liked kimimaro

kishi's always being a nutfag and killing the cool people in ridiculous ways


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## Memos (Apr 16, 2009)

Spy_Smasher said:


> I need to neg the last two posts in this thread and I've run out of rep for today. I'll do it tomorrow if I can remember. Hopefully we don't remove neg rep before then.



Not if I neg you first,


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## EdgeoO (Apr 17, 2009)

Sadly people care way way wayyyy too much. I liked being able to neg rep really bad posts, makes my pos repping seem worthwhile. It's weird with only pos rep, like not keeping score.


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## coolguy7127 (Apr 17, 2009)

I don't think that you should get rid of negative rep. Otherwise I think that really opens up the flood gates to the spammers/trolls. I agree right now that current system is meh at best. But I think a lot of it's flaws can be changed simply by overhauling how neg rep works, not getting rid of it. 

First of all I think that neg repping should be kept and in fact its impact should be more significant. Since its impact will be more significant maybe modify the rules regarding neg repping so you can no longer neg rep just because you disagree with someone. I think the problem with neg repping right now is the guidelines are pretty lose on it. The abuse is clear but as far as why you can give it can really be for any reason. Such as disagreeing with a post, that is a pretty loose reason and very subjective. People tend to not neg rep someone based on disagreement because: A. We have a lot of mature users who can agree to disagree     and    B. We have a lot of immature users who will neg rep the other person whenever they can. Of course this is clearly defined as abuse but again its subjective and just turns into he said she said. Someone could simply be neg repping back because they disagree with them.

I think tightening up the rules on neg repping and significantly increase its impact will bring a value to the system other then a simple game. Such as if an individual reaches a certain predefined mark of negative reputation they have their access temporarily revoked upon admin/mod review in which they can decide whether to perma ban or not. I think people would neg rep more often but for the right reasons. Of course the OBVIOUS problem with this is your mass neg groups, but that is also clearly defined as abuse. Make the rules stricter with the abuse, if someone abuses the system simply ban them.

I always thought of the neg rep system pointless since you have the report post function. But you could really just combine them to serve a single purpose. Someone can neg rep someone (report) and would be REQUIRED to leave a comment as to why they are reporting it. This would generally be accepted without a mod even having to know why because the neg rep impact would be significant. However if someone got a mass amount of neg reps with a predefined period of time a mod/admin would get a warning (probably similar how report a post works now) and they could decide if that was abuse of warranted. 

So example: You say that the maximum amount of rep someone can have is 100 and the maximum negative is -100 (using small numbers to make it simple). You have an individual with 50 Rep who makes a post which is spam/flame/troll/so unreasonably stupid/bitchy its ridiculous. A person decides to neg rep it, leave the reason why they are doing it, and that person will get neg repped 25 points(significant amount). If the person continues to get neg repped with different posts by different individuals and reaches -100 they get auto banned and a "report" is sent to a mod/admin to review the comments and see if its warranted. If they deem it is they do nothing the account is banned, if they deem it was unwarrented/abuse they unban the individual and in return ban the ones who abused (whether that be temprorary or whatever the guidelines are for abuse).

This way you have a rep system you can rely on. People who make sense in their posts will get the rep and win they game they are trying and working hard to win and those who make ridiculous posts/flame/w.e will get what they deserve. It needs to serve a purpose. Some might say that this would create far too much work for the mods/admins but to be honest it might cut down on it a bit. When people see you are serious about it you won't have so much abuse, they only get notified when someone is mass negged or reaches the maximum amount of neg rep and it will essentially replace the report a post function. Of course if you have an extremely SEVERE issue you report it but that would be the only purpose of the report a post function, SEVERE cases. 

As far as solving the positive rep whoring I will have to think about that. But any thoughts on the negative idea?


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## ♥Karin♥ (Apr 17, 2009)

I honestly think rep is pointless. Basically all it is, is a system that tells how popular you are. I've been negged repped 3 times so far (in the blender *spam area* of all places) because I simply spoke my mind. How wonderful is that? 

To bad this forum doesn't have a thanks button. That would solve the majority of the problems right there. Basically if you like the post, press the thanks, if you don't, then either be on your marry way or man up and post your opinions on why you don't like it.


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## coolguy7127 (Apr 17, 2009)

Itami said:


> I honestly think rep is pointless. Basically all it is, is a system that tells how popular you are. I've been negged repped 3 times so far (in the blender *spam area* of all places) because I simply spoke my mind. How wonderful is that?
> 
> To bad this forum doesn't have a thanks button. That would solve the majority of the problems right there. Basically if you like the post, press the thanks, if you don't, then either be on your marry way or man up and post your opinions on why you don't like it.



I don't think it is pointless or always just a popularity contest. It can be quite useful especially for those who take time to make posts and are rewarded with a good reputation. Often people are popular for a reason, sometimes good, others bad. I think the system can work, just not in its current form. I think its needs to be modified.


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## Viciousness (Apr 17, 2009)

for me I like to set goals and Im superstitous about numbers..or really just paranoid that ending something with a superstitious number will affect my thinking either for the good or bad. post count and rep. My final one was always as high as seemed reasonable so Legendary Nin and Ascendant. Still working on the latter since rep power was decreased years back. Then when I get it I said I'd stop posting.or try to. Right now when I hit 77777 or 41114 I was just gonna update the avatar.

but Im for either change. The rep system as it is now is bleh..especially since the rep power was lessened way back. Now it takes forever to get anywhere.


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## Aphrodite (Apr 17, 2009)

Well if your going to get rid of neg rep then i the thanks options is good. People can be thanked for a good post and if people don't like it then they dont have to thank it. The  thing with thanks is you cant neg a post. Then again i guess getting rid of neg rep does the same thing so i guess my post is kinda pointless lol.     >.<


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## Death Note (Apr 17, 2009)

The system as it is now is good with me. Neg rep shows who the losers are unless they have it in their sig saying "GIVE ME NEGREP" unless they got alot of neg rep and then they put "GIVE ME NEGREP" in their sig to make it seem that they are "cool" and that the negrep was done on purpose.....hope you all understand that.


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## Bluebeard (Apr 18, 2009)

It doesn't really matter to me, so I say keep it. And it's good to know if people hate you or not.


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## Senbonzakura (Apr 24, 2009)

Well neg rep and pos rep is good but with weak laws. lf the laws are more strict and taken serious then rep will get its meaning back. l agree neg rep has a purpose but its losing it with people negging because they want to.


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## Ae (Apr 26, 2009)

Nobody should take it seriously =/
People do neg rep for stupid reasons tho ...

Remove neg rep because it prevent from negative actions and hate


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## Dark_wolf247 (Apr 26, 2009)

Itami said:
			
		

> To bad this forum doesn't have a thanks button. That would solve the majority of the problems right there. Basically if you like the post, press the thanks, if you don't, then either be on your marry way or man up and post your opinions on why you don't like it.


This would change nothing. Implementing a Thanks feature would only open up another avenue for people to whore themselves out on. An example: Another forum of mine decided to try this out. After a week, the group of the forum who, I suppose, would be equal or likened with The Blender here, all had upwards of 1,000 thanks each. This is because they simply stalked each others' posts and thanked every single one as a show of how superbly awesome they all are. So that would change nothing.

Pic:

Top: "Blender-status" Member's Thanks
Bottom: S.Mod's Thanks.  

Anyway, I personally don't see any point in changing the rep system now. This site's reputation system has been in an exponential decline for years. One little change like removing the negging system or capping rep ranks isn't going to fix much of anything, and beyond the repwhores, how many people at this forum actually give a damn about rep anymore? It doesn't mean anything. At this point, I just think this forum should just admit that the rep system is completely screwed to hell and stop wasting their time trying to fix something that can't be fixed.


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## Akira (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm not really _for_ either option but if I had to pick I'd go for option 2 even though it wouldn't really fix any of the problems present at the moment.


Getting rid of it completely wouldn't be such a bad idea, the cons outweigh the pros IMO.


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## Kazekage Gaara (Apr 27, 2009)

Neg rep is stupid,why do that even exist?


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## Stroev (Apr 27, 2009)

Nothing happens; people need to man up or be wary on the interbutts. Leave it or rename(not remove) higher rep.

Mental problems that cause you to flip out when that happens, and that also caused you not to know about knowing things before you post on the internet? They should know that voicing something at all and anywhere can lead to critisism.


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## Mider T (Apr 28, 2009)

^Can't wait til you get banned


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## martryn (Apr 28, 2009)

Is there still a discussion about this taking place?  Damn, either you're slow to act, or you're not acting at all.  Either way, discussion has run it's course.


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## Mashy (Apr 28, 2009)

Dark_wolf247 said:


> This would change nothing. Implementing a Thanks feature would only open up another avenue for people to whore themselves out on. An example: Another forum of mine decided to try this out. After a week, the group of the forum who, I suppose, would be equal or likened with The Blender here, all had upwards of 1,000 thanks each. This is because they simply stalked each others' posts and thanked every single one as a show of how superbly awesome they all are. So that would change nothing.
> 
> Pic:
> 
> ...



I had like a 100 thanks but last time I logged on I had 14. Was there a purge?


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## Chocoholic ♡ (Apr 28, 2009)

People get neg reps just because somebody else has a different opinion... that's so stupid...


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## Atlantic Storm (Apr 28, 2009)

Not really, its to express how you think of that person and their opinions. Ocasionaly some people revenge neg(I have been revenge negged before). I don't mind negs TBH. You shoulden't either.


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## jeremy7 (Apr 28, 2009)

i think that some people abuse the reputation system, but overall, i believe it works out pretty well


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## Sarutobi_Sasuke (Apr 29, 2009)

Shouldn't there be a 'Neither' option for those of us who would rather have it remain the way it is?


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## Eliminator (Apr 29, 2009)

I suggest just removing the neg rep. It's the one that's more commonly abused, or we can just make neg rep a punishment for crimes, instead of letting a person neg rep another just because they have different opinions. If people can get neg repped for having different opinions, they will have no security and they will not be able to express their feelings freely.

My idea is, if someone breaks any of the laws in this forum, a mod or admin subtract the proper amount from their reputation.


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## Abigail (Apr 29, 2009)

Eliminator said:


> I suggest just removing the neg rep. It's the one that's more commonly abused, or we can just make neg rep a punishment for crimes, instead of letting a person neg rep another just because they have different opinions. If people can get neg repped for having different opinions, they will have no security and they will not be able to express their feelings freely.
> 
> My idea is, if someone breaks any of the laws in this forum, a mod or admin subtract the proper amount from their reputation.



Or how about people quit whining over a number that means nothing?


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 29, 2009)

Might as well remove the rep system entirely if you're going to remove the neg rep option 

No point in having the ability to pos rep if you can't neg rep, unless people are going to start flaming in positive reps.


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## Viciousness (Apr 29, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Might as well remove the rep system entirely if you're going to remove the neg rep option
> 
> No point in having the ability to pos rep if you can't neg rep, unless people are going to start flaming in positive reps.



I think there would still be neutral reps in which to reserve those comments.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 29, 2009)

DrunkenYoshimaster said:


> I think there would still be neutral reps in which to reserve those comments.



IIRC neutral reps only work for those who aren't required to give rep. And Neutral rep, I don't see that, unless it would just have it to where you'd get neutral reps so much that you just have one little blue bar, and nothing more. Better off just taking away both if it comes to it, but as to why, I have no idea, other than people getting butthurt over a negative rep.


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## Viciousness (Apr 29, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> IIRC neutral reps only work for those who aren't required to give rep. And Neutral rep, I don't see that, unless it would just have it to where you'd get neutral reps so much that you just have one little blue bar, and nothing more. Better off just taking away both if it comes to it, but as to why, I have no idea, other than people getting butthurt over a negative rep.



for right now, but I think the negs would be made to neutrals. no need for a bar, just a gray box when you get one. Most people have maxed bars anyway and it would take quite alot of negging for them to actually appear red unless they want it that way or are off to a bad start. I dont care so much though I been said when I reach ascendant Im done posting, but rep used to be worth alot more here years back, and it seemed like it was given more frequently. Now its more of a set back to get negged if it takes so long to come up as it is.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 30, 2009)

DrunkenYoshimaster said:


> for right now, but I think the negs would be made to neutrals. no need for a bar, just a gray box when you get one. Most people have maxed bars anyway and it would take quite alot of negging for them to actually appear red unless they want it that way or are off to a bad start. I dont care so much though I been said when I reach ascendant Im done posting, but rep used to be worth alot more here years back, and it seemed like it was given more frequently. Now its more of a set back to get negged if it takes so long to come up as it is.




It seems to be worth a lot for people wanting the option of neg repping members abolished. Wouldn't stop people from doing the same thing with a neutral rep if it were to happen, or with positive reps as well.


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## tom (May 1, 2009)

simple solution. make all neg reps look like this: 

think about it.


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## Memos (May 1, 2009)

tom said:


> simple solution. make all neg reps look like this:
> 
> think about it.



I would troll like crazy just to have a rep bar full of those


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## Miss Pumpkin (May 1, 2009)

tom said:


> simple solution. make all neg reps look like this:
> 
> think about it.



Fucking awesome idea.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 2, 2009)

Why not just leave things how they are? 

How does removing neg reps do anything besides make rep mean even less of something.


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## WeAreSharing (May 2, 2009)

Niiice........


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 2, 2009)

Funny side note, under option two, many of the blenderites would lose much of their rep power, as funny as that is I still disagree


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## Johnny Rotten (May 2, 2009)

Eliminator said:


> I suggest just removing the neg rep. It's the one that's more commonly abused, or we can just make neg rep a punishment for crimes, instead of letting a person neg rep another just because they have different opinions. If people can get neg repped for having different opinions, they will have no security and they will not be able to express their feelings freely.
> 
> My idea is, if someone breaks any of the laws in this forum, a mod or admin subtract the proper amount from their reputation.



Silly noob, we have something called  "banning" for people who abuse this system. It's usually temporary but sometimes it's permanent.

And neg builds character. Keep it!



WeAreSharing said:


> Niiice........



I should neg you for posting for the sake of getting your post count up. 

Ah hell, I won't.


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## Not Spy Smasher (May 3, 2009)

Shouldn't there be a 'Neither' option for those of us who would rather have it remain the way it is?


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## Jαmes (May 4, 2009)

Dark Plague said:


> I should neg you for posting for the sake of getting your post count up.
> 
> Ah hell, I won't.



lol i'm sure he knows and notices that posts don't count here... 

i didn't expect there'd still be discussion about this...


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## Nazreen (May 5, 2009)

I've just voted. Even though I'm just a newbie in this forum, I know that neg rep isn't all that bad. The only bad thing about it is that members might abuse this and that when members get neg rep, they'll also be wanting revenge.


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## Serena_Ahnell (May 6, 2009)

I don't really care about the outcome, but I found this hilarious:

-Examples of things that would get you sealed is repping with porn, obnoxiously sized images, *flaming in a pos rep instead (lol @ this)*


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## Romanticide (May 25, 2009)

Can you fix this:?....keeping neg rep is good though.


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## Felix (May 25, 2009)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> Can you fix this:?....keeping neg rep is good though.



Define fix?
There is a member with such rank


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## Charizard (May 25, 2009)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> Can you fix this:?....keeping neg rep is good though.



why fix whats not broken?


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## First Tsurugi (May 25, 2009)

Felix said:


> Define fix?
> There is a member with such rank



There's at least four, and at least one female member, too.

Though I think that's what the problem was.


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## Romanticide (May 25, 2009)

That _is_ the problem.


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## Felix (May 25, 2009)

It is not a problem


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## Sin (May 25, 2009)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> That _is_ the problem.


Hollie doesn't care.

I imagine if there ever comes up someone who reaches the rank and does it'll be looked into


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## Charizard (May 25, 2009)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> That _is_ the problem.



that is not a problem. something tells me you never watched TTGL.


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## Yondaime (May 25, 2009)

Actually, forget it. 
Why won't this thread stay dead!!!!!


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## I (May 25, 2009)

Don't change anything. Everyone loves the current rep system.

Where's the fun at if there's no neg repping? and if there's no higher rep levels that you have to reach? It's gonna be boring as fuck, like seriously.


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## Vanity (May 25, 2009)

First Tsurugi said:


> There's at least four, and at least one female member, too.
> 
> Though I think that's what the problem was.



There's at least 2 female members with that rank. I know that both Iria and Hollie have it.

And I thought Hollie made a thread about it once but I can't really remember.


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## I (May 25, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> There's at least 2 female members with that rank. I know that both Iria and Hollie have it.
> 
> And I thought Hollie made a thread about it once but I can't really remember.



I thought the other one is a guy named Susano'o?


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## First Tsurugi (May 25, 2009)

I said:


> I thought the other one is a guy named Susano'o?



Susano'o, Hollie, Iria (Phoenix), Sunuvmann, and Zaru (Hannah's love affair ♥) all have that rank.

Don't know if anyone else has it.


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