# Hokage base Naruto vs  Minato



## Panther (May 6, 2015)

Location: Madara vs Kages

Starting Distance: 50m

Restrictions: *This is hokage Minato from his battle with Obito during kyuubi attack, which means no RM or BM*. Naruto here has all the base feats from manga and the last movie.

Condition: Minato has 50 Kunai's but not yet spread out!

*Minato can summon gamabunta while Naruto can summong Bunta's son*.

Knowledge: Manga

Scen 2: Hokage base naruto vs Minato and Tobirama.


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## Trojan (May 6, 2015)

I still think Minato is superior to his child in base. Improvement with FRS does not really mean anything here
because of the redirections of the attacks that Minato has. Summoning is also irrelevant as Minato can simply break the contract with his contract seal.


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## Kyu (May 6, 2015)

Base Naruto's main claim to fame is his new mastery of FRS. 

Minato can evade or warp that shit away, though it wouldn't surprise me if Naruto defeats his old man or Tobirama in base. Chances are, his abilities skyrocketed after roughly ten years to refine his already high-tier stats.


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## Ersa (May 6, 2015)

Well you know, take a look at the difference between VOTE Sasuke's Chidori and the same attack in The Last.

The gains they made in 2 years are beyond fucked and base Naruto in the war was already low/mid-Kage before Rikudo enhancements.


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## Alkaid (May 6, 2015)

Kyu said:


> Base Naruto's main claim to fame is his new mastery of FRS.
> 
> Minato can evade or warp that shit away, though it wouldn't surprise me if Naruto defeats his old man or Tobirama in base. Chances are, his abilities skyrocketed after roughly ten years to refine his already high-tier stats.



Did you see the way Naruto threw them like candy? Guiding Thunder does warp, but Minato is stationary during it. Naruto threw a FRS in The Last and it changed directions while losing no speed when it shredded through those puppets. 

Then you take what he had in The Last, and you add 10+ years.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 6, 2015)

Naruto punks his dad. He's still on the God Tier, even in base.


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## Kyu (May 6, 2015)

> Guiding Thunder does warp, but Minato is stationary during it



Dodging is also a thing. 

It'll take a TKB+FRS combo to overwhelm his pops.


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## UchihaX28 (May 6, 2015)

Kyu said:


> Dodging is also a thing.
> 
> It'll take a TKB+FRS combo to overwhelm his pops.



 Base Minato's reactions pales in comparison to both the 3rd and 4th Raikage's, so dodging it effectively using pure movement speed isn't really an option. After all, the 3rd was pressured just by KCM Naruto using FRS and changing it's trajectory which is exactly what Base Naruto can do.

 But he certainly is dodging with Hiraishin if that's what you implied.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (May 6, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Base *Minato's reactions pales in comparison to both the 3rd and 4th Raikage's*, so dodging it effectively using pure movement speed isn't really an option. After all, the 3rd was pressured just by KCM Naruto using FRS and changing it's trajectory which is exactly what Base Naruto can do.
> 
> But he certainly is dodging with Hiraishin if that's what you implied.



Gosh, it's like people just spout any BS that they can find in their ass in this place. 

Databook 4:
Raiton Chakra Mode - A god-like speed that also catches up with Naruto in Tailed—Beast chakra mode, and even *praised to be as fast as the “Yellow Flash”*.”

The databook quote is backed up by Cee's statement:



Guided Rasenshurikens arent hitting anyone here. Naruto will be lucky if it doesn't get redirected back at him via guiding thunder. Naruto cannot guide the rasenshuriken past minato because the space time barrier can be as large as a Juubi Bomb, so there is no gap or opening that Naruto can throw it without it passing through the barrier. Not that the barrier is needed, with 50 plus teleportation kunai, nothing of that calibre is hitting minato. He uses shadow clones too, so they can easily repel the technique or take the hit if they need to.


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## Kyu (May 6, 2015)

> Base Minato's reactions pales in comparison to both the 3rd and 4th Raikage's



Bullshit.

Minato reacted to Ei's top shunshin and 8th Gated Gai which are >> FRS.

You must have gotten "reactions" confused with a term involving actual _movement_ of the body. Even then, it depends on who you're talking about.



> so dodging it effectively using pure movement speed isn't really an option.




Deva dodged FRS.

Minato's speed > Deva's by leaps and bounds.

Minato isn't facing many complications avoiding an FRS on foot. He may or may not resort to hiraishin in order to evade more fluidly.


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## UchihaX28 (May 6, 2015)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Gosh, it's like people just spout any BS that they can find in their ass in this place.



 No, not the mod smack! 



> Databook 4:
> Raiton Chakra Mode - A god-like speed that also catches up with Naruto in Tailed—Beast chakra mode, and even *praised to be as fast as the “Yellow Flash”*.”



 This is where you misinterpret the statement. Multiple individuals praised it to be as fast the Yellow Flash, specifically the Raikage as KCM Naruto was the only one who managed to evade Ei's fastest punch, similar to what Minato was capable of doing. Even Raikage admitted inferiority to Minato's Hiraishin speed. There's absolutely no possible way KCM Naruto's speed is comparable to the "Yellow Flash". After all, Obito praised Minato's Shunshin as the "Yellow Flash" just because it was really fast, so it's really the same situation here with KCM Naruto.

 Link removed

 Note how Bee states, "Asshole bastard, that really looked ..." indicating it seemed as if he was moving as quick as the Yellow Flash just because both movements are relatively fast, so Bee himself isn't able to differentiate how fast they are relative to each other.



> The databook quote is backed up by Cee's statement:



 Link removed

 Why are you calling me out when you cut out half of what C was stating? Clearly, C was referring to Base Raikage, not Raikage surrounded in his RnY. This is logical. The 4th is considerably faster than Minato's own movement speed and the Raikage also continuously uses Shunshin as his primary form of attack, so clearly him being very efficient in striking in conjunction with Shunshin would imply his reflexes are higher than Minato's considering Minato cannot do the same thing.

 There's also the fact that an inferior V2 Ei could pressure Minato to the point of having to resort to Hiraishin which is a form of a mental reaction which is far superior to actually evading or blocking a strike. There's no conceivable way that Minato's reflexes are on par with the Raikage's when amped up by his RnY. 



> Guided Rasenshurikens arent hitting anyone here. Naruto will be lucky if it doesn't get redirected back at him via guiding thunder. Naruto cannot guide the rasenshuriken past minato because the space time barrier can be as large as a Juubi Bomb, so there is no gap or opening that Naruto can throw it without it passing through the barrier. Not that the barrier is needed, with 50 plus teleportation kunai, nothing of that calibre is hitting minato. He uses shadow clones too, so they can easily repel the technique or take the hit if they need to.



 I never denied that Minato couldn't do anything against it nor would I want to argue against this anyways. I was mostly referring to the idea that Minato cannot effectively dodge/ defend against FRS with just his movement speed.


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## UchihaX28 (May 6, 2015)

Kyu said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Minato reacted to Ei's top shunshin and 8th Gated Gai which are >> FRS.
> 
> You must have gotten "reactions" confused with a term involving actual _movement_ of the body. Even then, it depends on who you're talking about.



 Sure, if you want to use mental reaction speed as a way to imply that their actual reflexes are even comparable.




> Deva dodged FRS.
> 
> Minato's speed > Deva's by leaps and bounds.
> 
> Minato isn't facing many complications avoiding an FRS on foot. He may or may not resort to hiraishin in order to evade more fluidly.



 I claimed effectively. Deva Path didn't casually evade FRS at the last second while the 3rd did and managed to do so again rather effectively, forcing KCM Naruto to resort to using the element of surprise to his advantage.

 Minato's speed is above Deva's, not denying that, but I'm simply arguing that he cannot dodge FRS as * effectively * as the 3rd can. Never claimed that he couldn't dodge FRS.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (May 7, 2015)

I don't know what you're talking about in your first paragraph. You're saying Minatos speed is above the raikages  because of Obito's compliment of his shunshin? Yet you're kcm Narutos speed isn't comparable to Minatos . Honestly, explain better because you're making no sense here. Who is faster than who, what are you trying to say??

 How did I misinterpret the statement, it says it right there that they are on par. So I don't need to listen to anything you have to say on this topic. There is no reading into it any further. It says 'a chakra mode is on par with the yellow flash. Meaning A's reaction speed and nerve transmissions are of similar calibre to Minatos. That's all it means.

No Cee wasn't talking about base raikage. Now you are misinterpreting. Especially when base Raiakge's speed is featless, when has he ever done anything in base? That line in the databook is a direct repeat of Cee's statement.  "Praised to be as fast as the yellow flash" - and then we have Cee praising A by comparing him to the yellow flash. It's obvious that's what the databook was referring to. I cut off he other part because it was irrelevant. You're the one misreading what it was saying. Cee wasn't referring to base Raiakge, he was simply mentioning that even though Taka were doing well keeping up, because of Raiakge's lightning augmented body, even the sharingan can't keep up. He was in no way saying base Raiakge's reaction speed and nerve transmissions are the same as Minatos, bull. Unless you want to tell me base raikage is on par with base minato. If that's the case then we're done here.

 Inferior v2 A? It's people like you I don't like discussing with? Proof of inferiority pls. Where did such a baseless conclusion even come from? Because he was younger? Because I could argue that the older he got, the slower he got. But that's pointless. So I'll use fact, A said Naruto was only the second person to dodge his top speed punch. Meaning Naruto dodged the same speed minato did, implying that his speed from his younger days was exactly the same.

Minato was not pressured into hiraishin. He was surprised by As speed because he'd never seen it before. You keep saying mental reaction, but why are you ignoring the physical reaction? Minato moved his had with enough strength to throw a kunai above A's head, so fast that A didn't even see it. That's physical reaction speed, out manoeuvring A in his lightning chakra mode.

 There's no conceivable way huh? That's your problem, it says it in the manga and databook that Minatos reflexes are on par. It says RCN raises the speed of Raiakge's nerve transmissions, and at the end says is on par with the yellow flash. Yet you're trying to twist it into something else. Unbelievable, simple state,net a child can understand, yet you're denying fact.


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## Source (May 7, 2015)

How does Minato take Naruto down?

He pretty much tanked a portion of a jutsu that contained all of his chakra without a scratch. 

Minato has a speed advantage but I still don't know what he can even do, honestly. Redirect Naruto's FRS back at him? I'd argue Minato is going to get flattened by Kage Bunshin+FRS before that happens, but I haven't seen The Last in full so I'm not really sure. There's probably nothing noteworthy for base Naruto anyway, speed-wise.

Also, Naruto kept training even after Boruto and Himawari were born. Considering the growth he made in around two years...base Hokage Naruto is probably leaps and bounds ahead of his 19 year old self.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 7, 2015)

Minato has a speed advantage but that only helps him with evasion not actually beating naruto. Minato would get overwhelmed by omnidirectional clone assaults the only FRS he will be able to redirect are the ones that come from the front. With his guiding thunder trolled here and naruto not dying to his rasengan or kunai stabs(IIRC he took a big ass blast without much outer damage in the movie). He loses.


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## Kai (May 7, 2015)

We may get action from Hokage Naruto soon in the upcoming chapters. I'd favor Minato as of now.


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## Elite Uchiha (May 7, 2015)

Minato wins with mid (low) difficulty. His speed/reactions are far too much for any ninja bar three or four ninja.


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## UchihaX28 (May 7, 2015)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> I don't know what you're talking about in your first paragraph. You're saying Minatos speed is above the raikages  because of Obito's compliment of his shunshin? Yet you're kcm Narutos speed isn't comparable to Minatos . Honestly, explain better because you're making no sense here. Who is faster than who, what are you trying to say??



 Obito has no knowledge of Ei's Shunshin speed, so I didn't contradict myself. I used that as merely as an example that Obito had heard the hype revolving around Minato's speed and compared it to the title of the "Yellow Flash" just because he was really fast even though it's clear that Minato gets his title from using his FTG.



> How did I misinterpret the statement, it says it right there that they are on par. So I don't need to listen to anything you have to say on this topic. There is no reading into it any further. It says 'a chakra mode is on par with the yellow flash. Meaning A's reaction speed and nerve transmissions are of similar calibre to Minatos. That's all it means.



 Unfortunately, I gave my interpretation because there's really nothing that implies KCM Naruto can move at instant teleportation nor is it even logical. I just don't understand why C was referring to Ei's Chakra Mode, especially when C later refers to the Raikage's enhancements of his Raiton Chakra as a means to hype the Raikage even further. The whole panel revolved around emphasizing the Raikage's speed and reflexes and C referring to the Raikage with his Chakra Mode activated doesn't seem to make much sense given that.



> No Cee wasn't talking about base raikage. Now you are misinterpreting. Especially when base Raiakge's speed is featless, when has he ever done anything in base?



 Link removed

 It's not ridiculous to assume Base Raikage is fast when Base Bee can move at incredibly high speeds without any Bijuu enhancements. 



> That line in the databook is a direct repeat of Cee's statement.  "Praised to be as fast as the yellow flash" - and then we have Cee praising A by comparing him to the yellow flash. It's obvious that's what the databook was referring to.



 I'll actually admit that that is a fair interpretation of C's statement, however, C seems to refer more towards reaction speed and neural transmission rather than actual movement speed which is what the Databook referred to.



> I cut off he other part because it was irrelevant. You're the one misreading what it was saying. Cee wasn't referring to base Raiakge, he was simply mentioning that even though Taka were doing well keeping up, because of Raiakge's lightning augmented body, even the sharingan can't keep up. He was in no way saying base Raiakge's reaction speed and nerve transmissions are the same as Minatos, bull. Unless you want to tell me base raikage is on par with base minato. If that's the case then we're done here.



 He's merely emphasizing how they high Ei's reaction speed is without his Raiton Chakra and compliments his opponents based on that, but then later emphasizes how with his Raiton Chakra that he is difficult to keep up with even with the Sharingan. The conjunction "but" is a huge indicator of that. What further emphasizes my point is the idea that what C said makes no sense. He claims that they were able to keep up and later said that someone with the Sharingan will be unable to keep up with his Raiton Chakra Mode? That makes no sense.

 It's also doesn't make sense when we consider C's shocked expression when Jugo survived Ei's blow and managed a point-blank range. If C truly believed that Jugo would've died, then that literally means he never believed they were able to keep up with his RnY enhanced speed.



> Inferior v2 A? It's people like you I don't like discussing with? Proof of inferiority pls. Where did such a baseless conclusion even come from? Because he was younger? Because I could argue that the older he got, the slower he got. But that's pointless. So I'll use fact, A said Naruto was only the second person to dodge his top speed punch. Meaning Naruto dodged the same speed minato did, implying that his speed from his younger days was exactly the same.



 Lack of Bijuu Level chakra and the fact that Ei admits he's battled Minato multiple times and could never surpass his speed indicates that he improved after each encounter.

 And no, that doesn't. It means both have the required speed to dodge his fastest punch, but that doesn't mean Minato's Hiraishin and KCM Naruto's Shunshin speed are comparable.



> Minato was not pressured into hiraishin. He was surprised by As speed because he'd never seen it before. You keep saying mental reaction, but why are you ignoring the physical reaction? Minato moved his had with enough strength to throw a kunai above A's head, so fast that A didn't even see it. That's physical reaction speed, out manoeuvring A in his lightning chakra mode.



 Minato was and he expected he'd need a full field of tags ready to help him evade his strike in which later, Ei proved to be much faster than Minato expected him to be. And really, you're really going to bring up physical reactions? May I bring up the panel where Killer Bee reacted to Minato's surprise strike which further supports my point? Even then, Ei lacked knowledge and was later implied to be able to counterattack efficiently once he had knowledge on Minato's technique.



> There's no conceivable way huh? That's your problem, it says it in the manga and databook that Minatos reflexes are on par. It says RCN raises the speed of Raiakge's nerve transmissions, and at the end says is on par with the yellow flash. Yet you're trying to twist it into something else. Unbelievable, simple state,net a child can understand, yet you're denying fact.



 I exaggerated with that statement, so apologies. I do admit your viewpoint is understandable and interesting to read.

 The databook statement you presented only indicated that KCM Naruto and Minato's speed were similar which I simply don't understand why.

 I would post more, but it's getting late, so this is all I had time for.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (May 7, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Obito has no knowledge of Ei's Shunshin speed, so I didn't contradict myself. I used that as merely as an example that Obito had heard the hype revolving around Minato's speed and compared it to the title of the "Yellow Flash" just because he was really fast even though it's clear that Minato gets his title from using his FTG.



Ftg is what gave minato is nickname i agree, thats a fact, no arguments here. However its a fact that others associated his nickname with his shunshin no jutsu as well. I believe that in order for minato to have been praised as the fastest, then surely his shunshin will need to be at least in par with raikages. And thats the impression i get when i read the databook and other manga statements

In this scan, naruto uses shunshin for the furst time, but bee compares it to the yellow flash. On the next page, yamato says "hes not on minatos pevel yet". Which means minatos shunshin became just as much a part of his reputation. And yamato is a leaf ninja and anbu kemeber, he knows these things. So obito isnt the first to hype shunshin, despite minatos nickname being as a result of ftg.
_from behind._

Hiruzen does the same, minato gets to the battlefield using shunshin, yet hiruzen says he lives up to his name:
_from behind._

So yeah, bis reputation comes from both ftg and shunshin.



> Unfortunately, I gave my interpretation because there's really nothing that implies KCM Naruto can move at instant teleportation nor is it even logical. I just don't understand why C was referring to Ei's Chakra Mode, especially when C later refers to the Raikage's enhancements of his Raiton Chakra as a means to hype the Raikage even further. The whole panel revolved around emphasizing the Raikage's speed and reflexes and C referring to the Raikage with his Chakra Mode activated doesn't seem to make much sense given that.


I dont think cee cares how raiakge achieves his speed, i think its just the fact that hes able to, whether hes praising lightning chakra mode or not. 


> _from behind._
> 
> It's not ridiculous to assume Base Raikage is fast when Base Bee can move at incredibly high speeds without any Bijuu enhancements.


Fair point, didnt remember that scan. At the same time, Zetsu isnt exactly fast or strong. But yeah, that is raiakges only feat in base, its not much to go off, considering his opponent was white zetsu and he wasnt even that far away at all.



> I'll actually admit that that is a fair interpretation of C's statement, however, C seems to refer more towards reaction speed and neural transmission rather than actual movement speed which is what the Databook referred to.


  The increased neural transmissions are what allow A to move at super speeds. So if raiakges neural transmissions in lightning chakra mode are said to be on par with minatos, then that would implicate minato being just as fast as raikage despite raikage being in lightning mode. And like ive already said, minatos shunshin has been associated with his nickname and compared with kcm naruto.



> He's merely emphasizing how they high Ei's reaction speed is without his Raiton Chakra and compliments his opponents based on that, but then later emphasizes how with his Raiton Chakra that he is difficult to keep up with even with the Sharingan. The conjunction "but" is a huge indicator of that. What further emphasizes my point is the idea that what C said makes no sense. He claims that they were able to keep up and later said that someone with the Sharingan will be unable to keep up with his Raiton Chakra Mode? That makes no sense.
> 
> It's also doesn't make sense when we consider C's shocked expression when Jugo survived Ei's blow and managed a point-blank range. If C truly believed that Jugo would've died, then that literally means he never believed they were able to keep up with his RnY enhanced speed.


The "but" is confusing, and maybe kishi just didnt word it properly. But as i said, i feel the databook is indireclty referring to Cees comment, so its kind of irrelevant at the end of the day. 

For example, its like lets say 2 martial artists are fighting. One is trained in karate, the other is trained in kung fu. Then the karate guy is doing well to at least hold his own, but then the kung fu guy says "impressive that youre managing to hold your own, however ive been trained in the art of kung fu, not even your skills can compete with mine". 

^
I feel thats what kishi was trying to write.



> Lack of Bijuu Level chakra and the fact that Ei admits he's battled Minato multiple times and could never surpass his speed indicates that he improved after each encounter.
> 
> And no, that doesn't. It means both have the required speed to dodge his fastest punch, but that doesn't mean Minato's Hiraishin and KCM Naruto's Shunshin speed are comparable.


How do you know he lacked bijuu level chakra? The only time A uses that much chakra is when he uses he liger bomb. But yeah, ill need to see proof that he lacked bijuu chakra.

Of course ftg and kcm arent compatable. But then tsuande is the one that compares it to minato, and she wasnt there when A and Minato fiught, so she of all people would know minatos speed. 

Fastest punch is his fastest punch. "You're the second person to dodge my full speed punch' I see the savior lives on in you". A even says earlier that "there is no one faster than me, now that the fourth hokage has passed". All this implues that raiakges speed is the ssme as its always been.

Plus raiakge was testing naruto to see if he could avoid the same punch minato did, and naruto passed. So A was not inferior in speed when he fought minato. Theres isnt a single evidence of that, in fact the evidence goes against it. Theres no implication that raiakge got faster. Espcually when Cee and the databook are still comparing him to minato after all the years minato was dead.




> Minato was and he expected he'd need a full field of tags ready to help him evade his strike in which later, Ei proved to be much faster than Minato expected him to be. And really, you're really going to bring up physical reactions? May I bring up the panel where Killer Bee reacted to Minato's surprise strike which further supports my point? Even then, Ei lacked knowledge and was later implied to be able to counterattack efficiently once he had knowledge on Minato's technique.



Minato prepared a full field of tags because he had no knowledge of the raikages speed, ots called taking precaution. So yeah A surprised him.

Killer bee didnt react to anything, ive said this millions of times in the past. Minato never went for the kill, he didnt strike, he didnt thrust his kunai into A instanly, like minato did to Obito. Even juubito cannot react to instant teleportation when he is marked, he was tricked 3 times with ftg, so no bee didnt react. Theres a difference between reacting and anticipating, Bees sword was most definitely already drawn, meaning he either saw the marking on his tentacle and prepared his blade before hand, or he had a feeling he was marked and predicted it. Either way, if minato went for the kill, bee would have never reacted. The moment minsto got behing him, he paused and started talking. But it was never his intention to harm Bee, not after all the praise he just gave him.





> I exaggerated with that statement, so apologies. I do admit your viewpoint is understandable and interesting to read.
> 
> The databook statement you presented only indicated that KCM Naruto and Minato's speed were similar which I simply don't understand why.
> 
> I would post more, but it's getting late, so this is all I had time for.



Yamato already compared kcm naruto and minatos shunshin, so its not just the databook. Tsunade also said kcm narutos speed resmbled the yellow flash. Even when naruto went bijuu mode the first time and blitzed past gai and kakashi to save them from the tailed beast bombs. Gai was amazed at the incredible speed, and Kakashi immediately thought it was minato. 

I think people just need to realise that minato was more than ftg. Its just that ftg is superior to shunshin, so of course its not something he'd rely on as much.


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 7, 2015)

Can someone tell me what Naruto's last movie feats are ?

Unless he is somewhat alot smarter and faster, and has some new jutsus up his sleeve, he is getting bamflashed with no difficulty.


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## Bonly (May 8, 2015)

Naruto runs up to Minato and gives him the cunt punt and turns Minato into red paint for Boruto and Himawari to play with


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## Turrin (May 8, 2015)

I'd like to say no, as I'd like to believe Naruto isn't that Godly, but all logic and reason says yes.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 8, 2015)

Unless you presume Naruto got Hiraishin, I don't see how he's winning.

Even the KCMv1+SM combo gives Naruto a chance. Or SM would seeing as, canonically, base Minato was surpassed by SM Naruto.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (May 8, 2015)

Turrin said:


> I'd like to say no, as I'd like to believe Naruto isn't that Godly, but all logic and reason says yes.



From what I've seen of bass hokage NARUTO and base adult Sasuke, I'd also like to believe that they are just regular top tiers. 

Especially now that sun and moon seal is gone,  don't know about Hagoromo chakra though.

I still say Naruto loses though. His real power has always come from the nine tails and senjutsu.


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## Mercurial (May 9, 2015)

Kyu said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Minato reacted to Ei's top shunshin and 8th Gated Gai which are >> FRS.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's fun how Minato reacted to 8th Gate Gai's speed in the same situation where Lee could throw a kunai so fast that it could appear right in front of a moving Gai, and when the same Minato was completely blitzed by Juubito and Juudara, both of them are clearly far less faster then 8th Gate Gai... and yeah, Gaara's sand that was carrying Kakashi kept up with 8th Gate Gai in that situation, I mean, Gaara's sand lol. Maybe, but that's a maybe, I would think that Gai didn't move at full speed to let his companions support him, but hey that's only me and a logical reasoning, so I dunno.

And yeah Minato easily dodges FRS. Post Rikudo Naruto's (albeit base mode)? No, lol. Naruto just blitzes Minato with foot speed, Juubito and Juudara blitzed KCM and SM Minato, and base Naruto's speed it isn't that far from their.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (May 9, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Yeah, it's fun how Minato reacted to 8th Gate Gai's speed in the same situation where Lee could throw a kunai so fast that it could appear right in front of a moving Gai, and when the same Minato was completely blitzed by Juubito and Juudara, both of them are clearly far less faster then 8th Gate Gai... and yeah, Gaara's sand that was carrying Kakashi kept up with 8th Gate Gai in that situation, I mean, Gaara's sand lol. Maybe, but that's a maybe, I would think that Gai didn't move at full speed to let his companions support him, but hey that's only me and a logical reasoning, so I dunno.
> 
> And yeah Minato easily dodges FRS. Post Rikudo Naruto's (albeit base mode)? No, lol. Naruto just blitzes Minato with foot speed, Juubito and Juudara blitzed KCM and SM Minato, and base Naruto's speed it isn't that far from their.



Astonishing how people don't actually know what the term "blitz" means. Apparently being countered is equivalent to being blitzed now. Learn the difference, it's not hard. Minato has never been "blitzed" before, especially when he's on the defensive.

Kunai's can be thrown faster than a persons movement, it's always been that way. In fact kunai's travel much faster than most ninja can move. Kakashi's full speed chidori was slower than minatos shuriken throws, if you look back at kakashi gaiden. He had a massive head start, yet minato's shuriken reached him effortlessly.

Now this wasn't just regular lee throwing kunai. It was 6 gated lee. Why do you think he opened the gates in the first place? It was to ensure he had the power to throw that kunai fast enough to intercept Gai. Lee wouldn't just open the gates for no reason at all.  So yes, Minato teleported in front of Gai, caught the kunai in his mouth, allowed the balls to latch onto his jacket, and then teleported away,,, all before gai could move an inch.

Whats more is that Minato just before told him to keep forging ahead no matter what, so we know gai didn't slow down. Lee and the databook also explained that the fifth and final step of the evening elephant was the fastest of all the steps. Gai also said before, that he'd attack Madara "continuously, without leaving any openings" - which minato still reacted to.

So while you continue to make excuses, the manga facts and databook will continue to laugh in your face. Now show me you evidence of where you got it that base narutos speed isn't far from juubito and juudara  I love when desperate people reach to the skies like this .


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## Kyu (May 9, 2015)

> Lee could throw a kunai so fast that it could appear right in front of a moving Gai, and when the same
> 
> and yeah, Gaara's sand that was carrying Kakashi kept up with 8th Gate Gai in that situation, I mean, Gaara's sand lol.



Those are outliers. Unlike those you named, Minato's speed/physical prowess is praised by every high to top tier in the verse and his feats of reacting to someone far out of his league substantiates the hype. 

Therefore, from an on-panel & portrayal standpoint, Minato's feat holds water. The others involved don't. 



> Minato was completely blitzed by Juubito and Juudara, both of them are clearly far less faster then 8th Gate Gai...



Minato never got blitzed by someone when not on the offensive. In fact, he reacted to Jewbito when he saved Naruto and Sasuke from having their skulls impaled.

There's a reason Ei was vulnerable as Minato mounted an offense. Stopping mid-attack leaves you less time to process what's going to occur, thus leaving you even less time to react. Unless of course you believe Ei can't counter Minato's kunai swing had the raikage been standing on guard, anticipating his foe's move.



> And yeah Minato easily dodges FRS. Post Rikudo Naruto's (albeit base mode)? No, lol. Naruto just blitzes Minato with foot speed, Juubito and Juudara blitzed KCM and SM Minato, and base Naruto's speed it isn't that far from their.



Sage+Kyuubi slits isn't base.


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## Raiken (May 10, 2015)

I would say, War Arc SM Naruto = Base Minato.

I would say Base Naruto now is either = or > Base Minato.


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## ueharakk (May 14, 2015)

Naruto stomps. 

tajuu kagebunshin + ability to detonate his projectiles with thought + juubi jin level reactions ends this fight in a flash.


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## StarWanderer (May 14, 2015)

> Minato reacted to Ei's top shunshin



Young teenager Ei's top shunshin? Yeah, nice. 

And C's words proves nothing. He has never seen Minato in action.


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## StarWanderer (May 14, 2015)

> Astonishing how people don't actually know what the term "blitz" means. Apparently being countered is equivalent to being blitzed now. Learn the difference, it's not hard. Minato has never been "blitzed" before, especially when he's on the defensive.
> 
> Kunai's can be thrown faster than a persons movement, it's always been that way. In fact kunai's travel much faster than most ninja can move. Kakashi's full speed chidori was slower than minatos shuriken throws, if you look back at kakashi gaiden. He had a massive head start, yet minato's shuriken reached him effortlessly.
> 
> ...



That was a blitz, actually. A pretty obvious blitz.

And it doesnt realy matter whan Gaiden Kakashi could, or couldnt do - it was a kid Kakashi, far below his prime. Maybe we should compare War Arc Kakashi's Chidori to Minato's Kunai throws?

Lee reacted to 8 Gate Gai's "full speed" there, which is logically impossible. Kakashi did that too, by using Kamui just in a right time. 8 Gate Gai slowed himself in that instance. It is clear.

In other word, Minato told him to keep moving forward, or "just hit him". He never told "use your full speed Gai!"

The fastest step? Maybe the punch itself is the fastest? 

Sage Mode Edo Minato got blitzed by Juubidara effortlessly, KCM Edo Minato couldnt do anything with Juubito, while Edo Tobirama could makr Juubito and was saved by Tobirama's clone... Re-read the manga.


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