# What can kill Katsuyu?



## Fragile (Feb 4, 2013)

I notice that there are quite a number of posters (from both in the BD and Library section) claiming Katsuyu's nigh invulnerability. Popular reasons are as follows:

- She can disperse hence it's difficult to subdue her
- She "tanked" Shinra Tensei
- She survived Naruto's chakra cloak. . etc

List any techniques that can *DEFEAT* Tsunade's boss summon *apart* from any named techniques used by *Naruto*, *Madara* and *Nagato*.


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## iJutsu (Feb 4, 2013)

Lots of salt (water). So maybe Kisame or Tobirama. Possibly Gaara too if salt counts as a mineral he could control.


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## PDQ (Feb 4, 2013)

Strong fire would be a good place to start.
Gama Bunta's flame
Kakuzu's Katon
Jiraiya's Deep fryer
Amaterasu
Konan's trillion explosive notes
C3
C4
CO

Jinton
Mei's acid mist possibly(if it's not immune to acid)
Utakata's corrosive gas
Goku's volcano
Sasori's iron sand spiked ball possibly(unless they're too small to be hit)
Kitsuchi's Mountain Sandwich possibly(unless they split up and can escape from the gap in time)
Kisame's water dome
Bijuudama
Nibi's fireball

Basically anything with lots of AoE so it can kill all the tiny parts at once.

Since Katsuyu can split it depends how much planning Tsunade/Katsuyu does.  She could hide some parts elsewhere.  Then Katsuyu would survive, but be massively reduced in size and power.  If Katsuyu is all in one place, it's much easier.

The problem is thinking of Katsuyu as one being.  It's more like 10000 little beings all merged together like a hivemind, a , and probably contains *all* of the slugs in the contract combined.  If you kill Gama Bunta, you've only killed one of his 3 boss summons.  If you kill Manda, you've killed 1 of countless snakes.  If you kill Katsuyu completely, you've committed genocide of all the slugs in the world.  So consequently, it should be much harder than any other boss summon to kill completely.  But it's much easier to weaken greatly since you can kill it piece by piece.

You'd deal with her the same way you'd deal with Konan's paper form, Sasori's 100 puppets or Shino's bugs.  Lots of AoE.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Feb 4, 2013)

Kirin, C4, C0, Paper God Technique, Bijuu-dama . .

those are the only ones that come to mind for now.​​


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## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 4, 2013)

_Jinton: Genkai Hakuri no Jutsu_ is beyond the limit of Katsuyu's splitting.


PDQ said:


> Mei's acid mist possibly(if it's not immune to acid)


Mei is able to control the acidity of _Futton: Kōmu no Jutsu_, possibly to point of making it basic.
And if Katsuyu is immune or resistant to bases, Mei can potentially create salts.


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## Seiji (Feb 4, 2013)

Can Madara use Amaterasu? If not, might add it on the list. Also, Kirin and Kamui.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 4, 2013)

Lol i love how Nagato, Madara & Naruto have to be restricted 

_Suirō Sameodori no Jutsu_ (drowning)
_Amaterasu_
_Jinton_
_C4_
_C0_
_C3_
_Kirin_
_Bijudama_
_Shikki Fujin_
_Kami no Shisha no Jutsu_

Sword of Totsuka
Benihisago

and thats about it .... she is a damn durability freak


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## Fragile (Feb 4, 2013)

Joakim3, Shikki Fujin? I mean, I'm aware that it seals the soul of the victim, but I'm curious as how would the caster be able to hold off Katsuyu?


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## Joakim3 (Feb 4, 2013)

Fragile said:


> Joakim3, Shikki Fujin? I mean, I'm aware that it seals the soul of the victim, but I'm curious as how would the caster be able to hold off Katsuyu?



Minato could simply have Gamabunta hold her off, and _Shikki Fujin_ (other than the hand signs) doesn't require _that_ much prep


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## Fragile (Feb 4, 2013)

^ I see. Can't she just disperse though? In the same manner where she escaped from being seized by Manda.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Feb 4, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Minato could simply have Gamabunta hold her off, and _Shikki Fujin_ (other than the hand signs) doesn't require _that_ much prep


Adding to that, Minato's version works at long range and sealed half of the Kyuubi nigh-instantly. All it required were a few hand seals from him, and this was even a Minato low on chakra. There's no need for Minato to hold Katsuya off, even though he is capable of doing so.


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## Fragile (Feb 4, 2013)

Unlike the Kyubi, Katsuyu has the ability to disperse into smaller Katsuyu's, therefore, making it almost impossible to seize her when she has the means to escape through such. The Kyubi on the other hand, while vastly more powerful, is intact therefore, making it easier to subdue than something with 'dispersive' abilities like the slug. 

Unless I am missing something here.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 4, 2013)

Shiki fuin.  

Though Katsuya can pull an Orochimaru and escape.  

Arguably the giant cube jinton.

Though she said she didn't mind Mabui's teleportation molecularly scrambling her body.

*Gama Bunta's flame
Kakuzu's Katon
Jiraiya's Deep fryer
Konan's trillion explosive notes
C3
C4
CO*

If Manda's shed skin can survive the Gamabunta/Jiraiya super katon combo, I'm positive Katsuya can.  

Explosions in particular are only hot for very brief moments, and mainly blast things apart.  Katsuya just reforms from those.

*Suirō Sameodori no Jutsu (drowning)*

Better hope she's not a seaslug.

*Amaterasu*
She splits off the on fire part.  I wouldn't be surprised if she could last seven days with her palm sized self being completely unharmed by KN8 though.

*Kirin*

Kirin blows her to pieces...and then she reforms.

*Bijudama*

Same deal.  Only in this case, Suigetsu actually tanked one.  He was using the same principle, but he's nowhere near as good at that as Kastuya is.

Well it is actually possible some of the suggestions could kill her, but it's really hard to find anything that you can't throw a reasonable doubt at.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Feb 4, 2013)

Fragile said:


> Unlike the Kyubi, Katsuyu has the ability to disperse into smaller Katsuyu's, therefore, making it almost impossible to seize her when she has the means to escape through such. The Kyubi on the other hand, while vastly more powerful, is intact therefore, making it easier to subdue than something with 'dispersive' abilities like the slug.
> 
> Unless I am missing something here.


While Katsuya can divide unlike the Kyuubi, I don't think that's going to help much considering the _speed_ at which Minato can rip souls out. He sealed half of the Kyuubi's chakra in an instant; he could probably do the same to Katsuya fast enough that she won't be able to divide in time.


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## Fragile (Feb 4, 2013)

I see. Um though scans showing Minato's "speed" in ripping the Kyubi's soul in an "instant", might help.


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## PDQ (Feb 4, 2013)

The Dreaded Alias said:


> While Katsuya can divide unlike the Kyuubi, I don't think that's going to help much considering the _speed_ at which Minato can rip souls out. He sealed half of the Kyuubi's chakra in an instant; he could probably do the same to Katsuya fast enough that she won't be able to divide in time.



The question is whether Katsuyu has 1 soul or thousands.  The fact that each part can talk independently suggests it's thousands of tiny souls sharing a telepathic link, who can fuse together like Kiba and Akamaru do for Garouga or Sakon/Ukon or the White Zetsus.  If that's the case, they'd only seal one of the thousands of souls.  Hiruzen needed Kage Bunshin to seal each additional person.

Even if it doesn't have time to divide, it's still individual souls.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Feb 4, 2013)

Fragile said:


> I see. Um though scans showing Minato's "speed" in ripping the Kyubi's soul in an "instant", might help.


Here you go: White Zetsus

White Zetsus

You can't really tell how fast it was with scans though, but it didn't seem to take long at all. In the anime its clearer; the anime may be non-canon, but its basically just the same sequence of events.



PDQ said:


> The question is whether Katsuyu has 1 soul or thousands.  The fact that each part can talk independently suggests it's thousands of tiny souls sharing a telepathic link, who can fuse together like Kiba and Akamaru do for Garouga.
> 
> Hiruzen needed Kage Bunshin to seal each additional person.



That makes sense, but I don't think that's something we can know for sure from that amount of information. For all we know, Katsuya's mind has evolved to be able to control each division simultaneously, giving the appearance of independent thought. But really, who knows...


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## PDQ (Feb 4, 2013)

The Dreaded Alias said:


> That makes sense, but I don't think that's something we can know for sure from that amount of information. For all we know, Katsuya's mind has evolved to be able to control each division simultaneously, giving the appearance of independent thought. But really, who knows...


The fact that unlike Jiraiya and Orochimaru who have each summoned countless other frogs and snakes, whereas Tsunade has only summoned Katsuyu, who breaks into smaller parts, rather than summoning smaller ones, suggests to me Katsuyu is the conglomeration of all the slugs, rather than a single one.


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## Fragile (Feb 4, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Shiki fuin.
> 
> Though Katsuya can pull an Orochimaru and escape.
> 
> ...



. . . So according to what is implied in this post... She survives almost everything (that's listed there)? Even ... C4... And CO that killed Manda who sheds skin... Even from a thunder she reforms...


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## Jυstin (Feb 4, 2013)

Amaterasu or a giant salt shaker. Those aren't the only two, but those will definitely do the job.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 4, 2013)

PDQ said:


> The question is whether Katsuyu has 1 soul or thousands.  The fact that each part can talk independently suggests it's thousands of tiny souls sharing a telepathic link, who can fuse together like Kiba and Akamaru do for Garouga or Sakon/Ukon or the White Zetsus.  If that's the case, they'd only seal one of the thousands of souls.  Hiruzen needed Kage Bunshin to seal each additional person.
> 
> Even if it doesn't have time to divide, it's still individual souls.



I can see this.  It's not even the first instance, since Orochimaru is a conglomeration of snakes who all have his soul.



Fragile said:


> . . . So according to what is implied in this post... She survives almost everything (that's listed there)? Even ... C4... And CO that killed Manda who sheds skin... Even from a thunder she reforms...



Yes.  

Acid I'm less sure off.  Though it's hard for me to think that Mei's acid is much more corrosive that Kyuubi's chakra cloak.  Then there's just her gleeful attitude towards walking into and out of everything that's supposed to be instantly fatal for everything else....


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## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 4, 2013)

Fragile said:


> Unlike the Kyubi, Katsuyu has the ability to disperse into smaller Katsuyu's, therefore, making it almost impossible to seize her when she has the means to escape through such. The Kyubi on the other hand, while vastly more powerful, is intact therefore, making it easier to subdue than something with 'dispersive' abilities like the slug.


If she's already made the clones, then yes, it'd be incredibly difficult to kill her, unless, like _Kage Bunshin no Jutsu_, there is always an original.
If she hasn't made clones, then no, it doesn't seem a viable strategy since the Shinigami's hand is invisible and upon contact, the victims's ninjutsu are impeded.


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## Jad (Feb 4, 2013)

My problem is we don't know how Katusyua functions in a way. I mean when she splits apart, they are still part of her once 'being'. They aren't 'Shadow Clones' which as the name itself implies, are fake copies. These are real parts of Katusya. Do they all share the same pain or how are they linked (separate beings completely?) I mean if you kill one, does the entire thing die, or if one dies do they all feel the shock of pain? I mean I imagine if you destroy half of her already split population, she is going to miss half of her body when she reforms, is that a death? Or does she just shrink in size? I think we should stand clear of the no-limit fallacy and in our posts perhaps make an exception for different scenarios.

It's to easy to say she is invincible. I mean if I gave you the extreme example of killing every Katsuyu division and leaving just one, how would you take that? That's 99% Katsyu gone, do you believe she only needs one division to live? Kishimoto never really gave us those answers.

I mean here Naruto's shadow clone aren't even heavily linked as you would imagine in comparison to Katsyu. Yet even the Shadow Clone felt some sort of pain clenching his chest when his original was going Kyuubi Mode [1].


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## Fragile (Feb 4, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Yes.
> 
> Acid I'm less sure off.  Though it's hard for me to think that Mei's acid is much more corrosive that Kyuubi's chakra cloak.  Then there's just her gleeful attitude towards walking into and out of everything that's supposed to be instantly fatal for everything else....



 She survived Kyubi's chakra cloak..... And so did Naruto's clothes at that time, they weren't even blown to pieces like they should have.

I am still not convinced that she survives something like C4 or Kirin or the other mentioned deadly techniques, though. Which were said to he capable of disintegrating something to the molecular level (c4).

And the others, that have great destructive capabilities that a human or animal being able to survive, is unheard of.



Elrond Half-Elven said:


> If she's already made the clones, then yes, it'd be incredibly difficult to kill her, unless, like _Kage Bunshin no Jutsu_, there is always an original.
> If she hasn't made clones, then no, it doesn't seem a viable strategy since the Shinigami's hand is invisible and upon contact, the victims's ninjutsu are impeded.



Katsuyu can make clones? I thought they were just her miniature incarnates?


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## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 4, 2013)

If she or her divisions breathe within it's range, _C4_ disintegrates.


Fragile said:


> Katsuyu can make clones? I thought they were just her miniature incarnates?


Clones, copies, mini-mes, what have you. I believe they've been called clones in the manga.


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## Melodie (Feb 4, 2013)

Fragile said:


> She survived Kyubi's chakra cloak..... And so did Naruto's clothes at that time, they weren't even blown to pieces like they should have.




This argument really does not work. You have to remember that this is a shonen manga. we won't see the main character fighting the final villain of the arc while being naked. Actually, we won't see someone fighting naked. (I can also bring examples like Mei's cloth not melting from acid and Tayuya's cloth not being torn from Temari's technique)​


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Feb 4, 2013)

PDQ said:


> The fact that unlike Jiraiya and Orochimaru who have each summoned countless other frogs and snakes, whereas Tsunade has only summoned Katsuyu, who breaks into smaller parts, rather than summoning smaller ones, suggests to me Katsuyu is the conglomeration of all the slugs, rather than a single one.


Alright, I concede that Katsuya can survive if she divides in time. What I doubt though is whether she can divide in time. If she doesn't manage to do so, then Shiki Fuin is sealing her.


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## Rocky (Feb 4, 2013)

Melodie is correct. We can count it as a durability feat for Katsuyu. Kishi took the time to have the slug exhale in relief, as she thought she was a goner. That indicates danger, and her relief indicates she survived.


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 4, 2013)

*thhis is a fun exercise~*

*Fire* 
Asa Kujaku/ sasori's napalm/ kakuzu/ Bunta/ Madara/ Niibi/Yonbi

*Blasts*
Jinton/ Kirin/ C0/C3/ Bijuubomb/ FRS/ Amaterasu/ Juugo/ paper ocean/ Jiraiyas deep fryer/

*other*
 Chibaku tensei/ Satetsu expansion/ Acid mist/ a determined Zetsu in ''garbage disposal'' mode/

*T.K.O. by de-summon*
Hirudora/ Daikodan/ a Direct CST/ Senjikizame/ Dat Meteor/ Yomi Numa/

i'll prolly edit this later but i cant think of more atm...


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## Seiji (Feb 4, 2013)

Jad said:


> My problem is we don't know how Katusyua functions in a way. I mean when she splits apart, they are still part of her once 'being'. They aren't 'Shadow Clones' which as the name itself implies, are fake copies. These are real parts of Katusya. Do they all share the same pain or how are they linked (separate beings completely?) I mean if you kill one, does the entire thing die, or if one dies do they all feel the shock of pain? I mean I imagine if you destroy half of her already split population, she is going to miss half of her body when she reforms, is that a death? Or does she just shrink in size? I think we should stand clear of the no-limit fallacy and in our posts perhaps make an exception for different scenarios.
> 
> It's to easy to say she is invincible. I mean if I gave you the extreme example of killing every Katsuyu division and leaving just one, how would you take that? That's 99% Katsyu gone, do you believe she only needs one division to live? Kishimoto never really gave us those answers.
> 
> I mean here Naruto's shadow clone aren't even heavily linked as you would imagine in comparison to Katsyu. Yet even the Shadow Clone felt some sort of pain clenching his chest when his original was going Kyuubi Mode [1].



So Jad, Katsuya vs Asa Kujaku/ Hirudora. What do you say?


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 4, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Melodie is correct. We can count it as a durability feat for Katsuyu. Kishi took the time to have the slug exhale in relief, as she thought she was a goner. That indicates danger, and her relief indicates she survived.



Naruto's crystal necklace also broke, and that was tucked underneath his clothing.  Naruto's skin was also noted to get peels off and destroyed by having the cloak up from the inside out.  So at the very least we can say that clothes aren't protecting Katsuya or anything fleshy and non-clothing.

Though I maintain that Katsuya was only sighing because everyone _but_ her would die.  Databook states that she's very considerate.


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## Rocky (Feb 4, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Naruto's crystal necklace also broke, and that was tucked underneath his clothing.



If we're speaking of the same thing, I was under the impression KN6 manually _broke_ the necklace when it tried to suppress him.


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 4, 2013)

Manda has the highest durabilty as he physically ''withstood'' C0...hes  quite fast & can burrow.

Katsuyuu has the highest definsive versatility & resilience by avoiding blunt trauma via splitting & sponging...but very slow.

Bunta has the highest mobility by far, its just ridiculous.


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## SoleAccord (Feb 5, 2013)

I'll throw in a boss summon-sized Gokusa Maiso with Gaara killing her with the sheer pressure of being far underground and being unable to breathe or escape the isolation. If the attack itself doesn't crush her body, the lack of oxygen would. I see no way she'd escape this. Kimimaro escaped by traveling up his own Sawarabi no Mai, so I'd rather not see 'if Kimimaro escaped, she can.' Not how it works. 

Surprised no one took Gaara into account yet.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Feb 5, 2013)

Jad said:


> I mean if you kill one, does the entire thing die, or if one dies do they all feel the shock of pain? I mean I imagine if you destroy half of her already split population, she is going to miss half of her body when she reforms, is that a death? Or does she just shrink in size? I think we should stand clear of the no-limit fallacy and in our posts perhaps make an exception for different scenarios.
> 
> It's to easy to say she is invincible. I mean if I gave you the extreme example of killing every Katsuyu division and leaving just one, how would you take that? That's 99% Katsyu gone, do you believe she only needs one division to live? Kishimoto never really gave us those answers.
> 
> I mean here Naruto's shadow clone aren't even heavily linked as you would imagine in comparison to Katsyu. Yet even the Shadow Clone felt some sort of pain clenching his chest when his original was going Kyuubi Mode [1].



What one Katsuyu division does, has no relevance to what another Katsuyu division is doing [ 1 ]. They aren't like normal E-rank bunshin that must all perform the same actions. In that same respect, when one Katsuyu division _takes damage_, it doesn't mean _every other division does_ as well. From this it is safe to deduce that the divisions do not share a pain threshold, each being is an individual. Essentially, it shouldn't matter if one Katsuyu division is killed, for the only connection it shares with other divisions is a telepathic one. When Katsuyu divisions reform after a few of them have been killed, the original Katsuyu should in theory just be a bit smaller.

That being said, if you killed 99% of Katsuyu divisions you'd expect the original to have sustained some sort of damage given that they are a part of her body . .​​​


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## Santoryu (Feb 5, 2013)




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## PDQ (Feb 5, 2013)

Jad said:


> Do they all share the same pain or how are they linked (separate beings completely?)


I think they can send pain telepathically, but don't automatically do it.  They're not constantly linked since they have individual thoughts.


> I mean if you kill one, does the entire thing die


Highly doubtful.  Otherwise it would be far too risky to split up and give the enemy easier weaker targets to kill if any one could kill her.


> I mean I imagine if you destroy half of her already split population, she is going to miss half of her body when she reforms, is that a death? Or does she just shrink in size?


We saw how when one slug broke off to carry Naruto during the Sannin battle, there wasn't a hole left in Katsuyu so they're not mapped to specific sections, so most likely it would just be shrunk.  If you killed 50%, she'd be half as big(volumetrically).


> That's 99% Katsyu gone, do you believe she only needs one division to live?


Probably, but it'd be like saying a shinobi could live with their arms and legs cut off and their eyes cut out.  They'd be alive but horribly weakened.  It'd be like summoning a tadpole instead of Gama Bunta.  It's like how Hidan is "alive".  You could do it, but why?

With Katsuyu, the idea of killing it is probably less meaningful than reducing it to a useless state by killing enough parts of it.  Considering the opponent in most BD matches is Tsunade instead of Katsuyu, whether or not you kill it is irrelevant, since whether it's still able to help is more of the important factor.


> Yet even the Shadow Clone felt some sort of pain clenching his chest when his original was going Kyuubi Mode [1].


That's probably because the Kyuubi is actually one being that's shared throughout all of them(as shown by how KCM using Kage Bunshin speeds up him eating their chakra), so anything involving the Kyuubi can affect more than one.


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## Elder God Demonbane (Feb 5, 2013)

Amaterasu, sealing, poison/acid, intense destructive force(like a beast bomb)


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## ueharakk (Feb 5, 2013)

Attacks that disintegrate or don't do raw blunt-force/slicing damage.

FRS
Jinton
Kirin
Huge Katons
Acid
TBB
C3/C4

etc.

and of course, like every technique katsuya's regen and splitting has its limits so even if slicing attacks are used on her, it's not like she can just sit their and take them forever.


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