# Kisame vs. Pain



## Lightysnake (May 30, 2010)

Seeing as how some genuinely seem to believe Kisame is in this tier, seems we need this thread.

Location: Where Kisame fought team Gai

Knowledge: Pain knows of Samehada and that Kisame is a suiton user. Kisame has knowledge of Animal Realm, Human Realm and Asura.

Restrictions: Kisame has none in either scenario. Scenario 1: Pain is not allowed to use Animal or Hell Realm. He is not allowed Chou Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei
Scenario 2, Pain has no restrictions save Chou Shinra Tensei.


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## Corax (May 30, 2010)

Hungry Ghost+deva will be enough. Hungry will absorb all of his attacks deva will kill him. In the worst scenario Deva can bansho-tennin samehada from his hands.


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## Nikushimi (May 30, 2010)

Kisame takes the first scenerio with moderate difficulty. He should be able to fend the bodies off in base form for a little bit, then after a while decide to use Suirou Same Odori no Jutsu and fuse with Samehada as Pain begins to gain the upperhand. At that point, it's an underwater battle, and Kisame rapes with the mobility advantage and constant chakra-draining.

In scenerio 2, Kisame might actually still win with extreme difficulty. Chou Shinra Tensei is the only move that can really kill him, but you restricted that. Even if Tendou can fly out of the water and trap Kisame in Chibaku Tensei, Kisame would most likely be able to survive that when fused with Samehada, since Rokubi Naruto and Sennin Naruto could. Once Chibaku Tensei wears off, Kisame will plummet back down and finish off a defenseless Tendou, whose powers won't be working for quite a while. Unless Chibaku Tensei lasts long enough to suffocate Kisame, I just don't see Pain managing to kill him.


Give Pain Chou Shinra Tensei back, and he wins.


EDIT: By the way, I like how you had to make a spite thread just to prove a point, and it backfired on you by giving me another opportunity to vouch for Kisame.


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## Lightysnake (May 30, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Kisame takes the first scenerio with moderate difficulty. He should be able to fend the bodies off in base form for a little bit, then after a while decide to use Suirou Same Odori no Jutsu and fuse with Samehada as Pain begins to gain the upperhand. At that point, it's an underwater battle, and Kisame rapes with the mobility advantage and constant chakra-draining.


Fend off the bodies in base? Oh, sure, I'm sure he'll do fine against shinra Tensei and Bansho Tennin coupled with soul ripping, Asura's strength and Preta the-.

Wait. Preta can absorb chakra you say? So he can absorb any water Kisame uses? And Deva can use  Shinra Tensei to disperse chakra and ninjutsu.





> In scenerio 2, Kisame might actually still win with extreme difficulty. Chou Shinra Tensei is the only move that can really kill him, but you restricted that.


Soul Rip. Chakra rods through the vital points. Asura can pull his head off. Chibaku tenseo



> Even if Tendou can fly out of the water and trap Kisame in Chibaku Tensei, Kisame would most likely be able to survive that when fused with Samehada, since Rokubi Naruto and Sennin Naruto could.


Yeah, Kisame is nowhere near as durable as a tailed Naruto. And Sennin Naruto didn't survive it. Naruto turned back to normal, already outside it



> Once Chibaku Tensei wears off, Kisame will plummet back down and finish off a defenseless Tendou, whose powers won't be working for quite a while. Unless Chibaku Tensei lasts long enough to suffocate Kisame,


He can make it last however long he wants. And Kisame'll be crushed by...how many tons of pressure? And...hello other bodies.
Hello...faster...durable, stronger bodies. And since when did Chibaku Tensei render Deva unusable? He was using Shinra Tenseis against shortly after it



> I just don't see Pain managing to kill him.


Naturally.




> Give Pain Chou Shinra Tensei back, and he wins.


This is Kisame vs. Pain as a whole, not Pain vs. Deva, sorry



> EDIT: By the way, I like how you had to make a spite thread just to prove a point, and it backfired on you by giving me another opportunity to vouch for Kisame.



No, no, I'd say my intended purpose is working fine.


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## Turrin (May 30, 2010)

Kisame would loose both badly; Pain has knowledge of Samehada that means he knows how it works, which in turn means his first logical move would be to use BT on Samehada and rip it from Kisame hands at the start of the match and from there its rape stomp.

Even if we ignore that i feel the chakra disrupting rods would be the downfall of Kisame in both Scenario's.


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## Nikushimi (May 30, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Fend off the bodies in base? Oh, sure, I'm sure he'll do fine against shinra Tensei and Bansho Tennin coupled with soul ripping, Asura's strength and Preta the-.
> 
> Wait. Preta can absorb chakra you say? So he can absorb any water Kisame uses? And Deva can use  Shinra Tensei to disperse chakra and ninjutsu.



All of that would be pretty much useless against Kisame. Kakashi survived Shinra Tensei twice, soul-rip isn't good for anything in the heat of battle since if you're standing behind someone you may as well try to stab them, Shuradou's strength pales before Kisame's, and Gakidou can't absorb a Samehada bat to the face.

I only said he would hold them off, and I did state they would gain the upperhand eventually.



> Soul Rip. Chakra rods through the vital points. Asura can pull his head off. Chibaku tenseo



Soul-rip isn't an effective battle move. I see Kisame grinning as Pain skewers him with multiple chakra rods, Kenpachi style, then slashing the offending bodies in half. But that much is probably just my Kisame-fanatical side. 

Shuradou couldn't rip Kisame's dick off, much less his head (actually, the former would be a more impressive feat ). Like I said, Kisame would probably survive Chibaku Tensei.



> Yeah, Kisame is nowhere near as durable as a tailed Naruto. And Sennin Naruto didn't survive it. Naruto turned back to normal, already outside it



Sennin Naruto was _*standing*_ on it... And actually, since Kisame was able to pierce V2 Bee, and is fused with Samehada, I'd say he IS decently comparable to V2 forms in terms of durability, when he's fused with Samehada.



> He can make it last however long he wants.



Nope, the manga shows Nagato coughing up blood and Chibaku Tensei breaking apart.



> And Kisame'll be crushed by...how many tons of pressure? And...hello other bodies.
> Hello...faster...durable, stronger bodies. And since when did Chibaku Tensei render Deva unusable? He was using Shinra Tenseis against shortly after it



Kisame is insanely durable, and has regen. He won't be crushed. The bodies are all weaker than he is, and in water, they aren't faster. And oh yeah, I confused Chibaku Tensei with Chou Shinra Tensei in terms of its effects on Tendou, my bad.



> This is Kisame vs. Pain as a whole, not Pain vs. Deva, sorry



Why would Pain fight Tendou? How is that relevant? 



> No, no, I'd say my intended purpose is working fine.



Trolling me? Dunno if it really worked the way you wanted it to.


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## Edward Newgate (May 30, 2010)

^It's funny how you completely ignored that Gakidou will easily make any of his elemental attacks useless 

All of Kisame's Suiton techniques are useless when Gakidou is around.

And Samehada can't absorb any chakra from Pain, since Pain doesn't use such attacks that Samehada could absorb.



> Sennin Naruto was standing on it... And actually, since Kisame was able to pierce V2 Bee, and is fused with Samehada, I'd say he IS decently comparable to V2 forms in terms of durability, when he's fused with Samehada.




See that? The Kyuubi was completely trapped inside of it. Then the Kyuubi got out of it. After he got to the surface and then Naruto came back, obviously Naruto, who is a much smaller target, would be able to stand on it. BECAUSE HE FREED HIMSELF BEFORE THAT. Kisame isn't surviving being trapped inside of it. Stop trolling.

Kisame can't get anywhere near Pain if Pain uses ST.

Pain defeats him without too much trouble.


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## Mr.Blonde (May 30, 2010)

Seeing as how Kisame was shitting himself in front of Jiraiya and Pain defeated Jiraiya,this should be a no-brainer.
Pain wins both scenarios.


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## the_symbol_of_rebirth (May 30, 2010)

^This

Kisame doesnt stand a chance.


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## Smiley (May 30, 2010)

Nikushimi's Mega Wank On Kisame Here.

Kisame Survive A CT? So Your Saying He's As Stong As The 8 Tailed Kyuubi Naruto. LOL.


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## Mist Puppet (May 30, 2010)

Corax said:


> Hungry Ghost+deva will be enough. Hungry will absorb all of his attacks deva will kill him.



Hungry Ghost can't absorb Kisame's monstrous strength.



> In the worst scenario Deva can bansho-tennin samehada from his hands.



And he brings back Samehada to him.



Edward Newgate said:


> And Samehada can't absorb any chakra from Pain, since Pain doesn't use such attacks that Samehada could absorb.


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## Edward Newgate (May 30, 2010)

Mist Puppet said:


> Hungry Ghost can't absorb Kisame's monstrous strength.
> 
> 
> 
> And he brings back Samehada to him.


Then why didn't he just dried each of his opponents so far long ago? That should be easy.

I'd say it's a plot hole. That's just retarded. He can absorb Ponta's chakra just like that, but doesn't do it against Asuma, Killerbee, Guy? he had enough opportunities to absorb all of Guy's chakra in a second, but didn't do it. In that case, he can defeat almost every opponent right away without any troubles (except for Pain, Naruto, Killerbee).

He did it only against Ponta, once.


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## Mist Puppet (May 30, 2010)

Edward Newgate said:


> Then why didn't he just dried each of his opponents so far long ago? That should be easy.
> 
> I'd say it's a plot hole. That's just retarded. He can absorb Ponta's chakra just like that, but doesn't do it against Asuma, Killerbee, Guy? he had enough opportunities to absorb all of Guy's chakra in a second, but didn't do it. In that case, he can defeat almost every opponent right away without any troubles (except for Pain, Naruto, Killerbee).
> 
> He did it only against Ponta, once.



He can choose whether or not absorb their chakra.

Samehada never touched Gai IIRC, so Kisame couldn't exactly absorb his chakra. That, and he probably can't shave alot off at one time, hence why he hardly does it. 

He can do it, it's just probably not worth it. It's much easier to draw out chakra from a bijuu then it is from a dormant person.


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## Edward Newgate (May 30, 2010)

Mist Puppet said:


> He can choose whether or not absorb their chakra.
> 
> Samehada never touched Gai IIRC, so Kisame couldn't exactly absorb his chakra. That, and he probably can't shave alot off at one time, hence why he hardly does it.
> 
> He can do it, it's just probably not worth it. It's much easier to draw out chakra from a bijuu then it is from a dormant person.


Samehada never touched that one sword that penetrated Kisame's shoulder, too, and yet she ate the lightning chakra that Killerbee infused it with. I think there were more times in which Samehada didn't touch Killerbee and still ate his chakra.



> That, and he probably can't shave alot off at one time, hence why he hardly does it.


She ate 6 tales worth of chakra from Killerbee, why can't it do the same to Guy? Though maybe it's because at that time, Samehada was already released and revealed, so maybe because of it.

Still, it's bullshit.


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## Lightysnake (May 30, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> All of that would be pretty much useless against Kisame. Kakashi survived Shinra Tensei twice, soul-rip isn't good for anything in the heat of battle since if you're standing behind someone you may as well try to stab them, Shuradou's strength pales before Kisame's, and Gakidou can't absorb a Samehada bat to the face.
> 
> I only said he would hold them off, and I did state they would gain the upperhand eventually.


Kakashi survived Shinra Tensei from Pain not even using it to its fullest?
And Soul Rip works fine. When Human Path puts a hand to his head, Kisame is paralyzed. Like any of Human's other victims we saw

And feat of Kisame that compares to Asura. As I recall, Asura killed someone more durable than Gai and crushed his throat with one hand. And tore off his arm. In Sage Mode.




> Soul-rip isn't an effective battle move. I see Kisame grinning as Pain skewers him with multiple chakra rods, Kenpachi style, then slashing the offending bodies in half. But that much is probably just my Kisame-fanatical side.


Yeah, because when skewered with multiple chakra rods, he'd be immobile.



> Shuradou couldn't rip Kisame's dick off, much less his head (actually, the former would be a more impressive feat ). Like I said, Kisame would probably survive Chibaku Tensei.


This might be a sign you need to tone down the Kisame fandom.




> Sennin Naruto was _*standing*_ on it... And actually, since Kisame was able to pierce V2 Bee, and is fused with Samehada, I'd say he IS decently comparable to V2 forms in terms of durability, when he's fused with Samehada.


'Pierce' V2 Bee? No, he drained his chakra out. And NAruto, again, simply changed back from his eight tail form. When it had busted out.
Evidence Kisame can survive being crushed like that? Please




> Nope, the manga shows Nagato coughing up blood and Chibaku Tensei breaking apart.


Nice lie again.
Pain at first: I guess I'll have to make it bigger.
Quite causally. He only releases it when he sees Naruto's returned to normal




> Kisame is insanely durable, and has regen. He won't be crushed. The bodies are all weaker than he is, and in water, they aren't faster. And oh yeah, I confused Chibaku Tensei with Chou Shinra Tensei in terms of its effects on Tendou, my bad.


The bodies can take hits from Sage Mode fighters and keep coming. Where's Kisame's increidble durability from when he got his chest torn apart?

And 'in water,' Preta can absorb all of it



> Why would Pain fight Tendou? How is that relevant?


Gee, he's just fighting Pain




> Trolling me? Dunno if it really worked the way you wanted it to.



No, I think the reactions say everything


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## Mist Puppet (May 30, 2010)

Edward Newgate said:


> Samehada never touched that one sword that penetrated Kisame's shoulder, too, and yet she ate the lightning chakra that Killerbee infused it with. I think there were more times in which Samehada didn't touch Killerbee and still ate his chakra.



I don't recall this happening. Scan?



> She ate 6 tales worth of chakra from Killerbee, why can't it do the same to Guy? Though maybe it's because at that time, Samehada was already released and revealed, so maybe because of it.



Are you talking about Gated Gai?

He couldn't hit Gai.


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## Big Mom (May 30, 2010)

I see Kisame actually pulling off a win. He could absorb all their chakra giving him basically immortality the entire fight. Given that, Kisame wins.

Due to fighting MANY foes with high chakra, I think this gives Kisame an unfair advantage.


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## Butō Rengoob (May 30, 2010)

Deva Path solos, easily, with one hand.

But we'll here the multiple Kisame-wankers say "Nuh-uh, he absorbs Pein's soul".


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## OutlawJohn (May 30, 2010)

The level of wank that is produced here is merely outstanding. Kisame doesn't stand a chance in hell.

In terms of close range combat, many of the bodies are faster than him, and Asura is just plain stronger than him. In Ninjutsu, he has no moves that he can use. Pain wins scenerio one with a little bit of heavy breathng, and he pulls out his rape gloves in scenerio two.


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## Thunder (May 30, 2010)

Pain wins. There isn't much else that needs to be said.


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## Lightysnake (May 30, 2010)

Hiruzen Sarutobi said:


> I see Kisame actually pulling off a win. He could absorb all their chakra giving him basically immortality the entire fight. Given that, Kisame wins.
> 
> Due to fighting MANY foes with high chakra, I think this gives Kisame an unfair advantage.



He cannot wave a hand at them and take theirchakra. It has to at least hit them and it only goes crazy when it encounters specific chakra it likes. Did it absorb Gai's or Asuma's? No.

Pain never even needs to get too close and can yank Samehada away. What'll Kisame do if Deva bansho tennins it into Preta who sucks it dry?


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## JiraiyaTheGallant (May 30, 2010)

Pain will use a Bansho Tenin + chakra rod/saw tail/soulrip combo before Kisame even gets a chance to use Water Prison Shark Dance. Preta cancels out Samehada, and should Kisame manage to pull off Water Prison Shark Dance, Pain has his Red Lobster summon.

In other words...


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## Alita (May 31, 2010)

Pein curbstomps in both scenarios. He's most likely faster than kisame and way stronger physically than kisame.


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## Tengu (May 31, 2010)

Pain wins easily, all of Kisame's suitons will get absorbed, Kisame has no chance in hell.


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## Jinnobi (May 31, 2010)

Cabbage Cabrera said:


> *Deva Path solos, easily, with one hand.*
> 
> But we'll here the multiple Kisame-*wanker*s say "Nuh-uh, he absorbs Pein's soul".



How ironic.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 31, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Seeing as how some genuinely seem to believe Kisame is in this tier, seems we need this thread.
> 
> Location: Where Kisame fought team Gai
> 
> ...



Scenario 1: Kisame loses. God Realm renders most tactics useless, Asura Realm makes things complicated, Hungry Ghost Realm renders all chakra useless-- Kisame's massive Suiton especially and Human Realm can take advantage of the aforementioned.

Scenario 1: Pain stomps easily. BT + combos from other Pain Realms end this easily.


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## Big Mom (May 31, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> He cannot wave a hand at them and take theirchakra. It has to at least hit them and it only goes crazy when it encounters specific chakra it likes. Did it absorb Gai's or Asuma's? No.
> 
> Pain never even needs to get too close and can yank Samehada away. What'll Kisame do if Deva bansho tennins it into Preta who sucks it dry?



Samehada has a spiney defense. he cannot yank anything away.

Also, gai and asuma had high taijutsu skills, making it affective at dodging/countering it. Besides, the Asuma fight lasted what 1 page?


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## Butō Rengoob (May 31, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> How ironic.


I was being sarcastic, i don't Wank Pein, nor will i ever. However, to not realize Pein annhihalates 99.9% of the Naruto-verse (the .1% Being Naruto) makes you blind and foolish.


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## IzanagiRikudo (Jun 11, 2010)

Scenerio 1: Pain wins with moderate difficulty. Water Dome wouldn't be much of a problem considering it can be absorbed by Preta Realm. Pain would win using probably Bansho Tenin + Soul Rip. Or if he gets a chance to use Head Laser with Asura, he'll win too.

Scenerio 2: Pain wins with easy difficulty. Same way as before, only now Kisame would be fighting off Summons, and any body he'll kill will just be revived as long as it's not Hell Realm. Chibaku Tensei would finish him easily.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jun 11, 2010)

Kisame performs water bubble, fuses with Samehada, and all of the Pain bodies drop dead because the chakra signal is absorbed into the bubble.

Kisame wins either scenario this way easily enough.


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## OutlawJohn (Jun 11, 2010)

You guys just necroed this dead and beaten thread.


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## Aoshi (Jun 11, 2010)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Kisame performs water bubble, fuses with Samehada, and all of the Pain bodies drop dead because the chakra signal is absorbed into the bubble.
> 
> Kisame wins either scenario this way easily enough.



_Deva Path can easily Shinra Tensei the Water Dome away._


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## Blueprint (Jun 11, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Kisame takes the first scenerio with moderate difficulty. He should be able to fend the bodies off in base form for a little bit, then after a while decide to use Suirou Same Odori no Jutsu and fuse with Samehada as Pain begins to gain the upperhand. At that point, it's an underwater battle, and Kisame rapes with the mobility advantage and constant chakra-draining.
> 
> In scenerio 2, Kisame might actually still win with extreme difficulty. Chou Shinra Tensei is the only move that can really kill him, but you restricted that. Even if Tendou can fly out of the water and trap Kisame in Chibaku Tensei, Kisame would most likely be able to survive that when fused with Samehada, since Rokubi Naruto and Sennin Naruto could. Once Chibaku Tensei wears off, Kisame will plummet back down and finish off a defenseless Tendou, whose powers won't be working for quite a while. Unless Chibaku Tensei lasts long enough to suffocate Kisame, I just don't see Pain managing to kill him.
> 
> ...



You really think Kisame can win this?  You crazy! But if you can support your reasons, I guess it's fine.


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