# What level is each path of pain?



## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

I ask because we have deva who most would say mid or high kage. Though i believe he is more mid than high. All high kage should be able to beat deva 1 on 1. 
*I would also like to point out that shinra tensei is an invisible force not an instant technique*
it will hit anyone because they cant see it coming. thats not the same as being instant or super fast

Deva level is pretty clear, though i believe people like itachi, MS sasuke, minato, onoki, Sandaime raikage, gaara 1 on 1 could beat deva. Hence my saying he is more mid kage than high kage level 

Where would you rate 

Asura path
Animal path
preta path 
naraka path
Human path

I think Naraka is the weakest of the lot and i would put him at chunin level 

He will fight Hinata
Location: open field
knowledge: none
distance: 10m

I think Asura is low kage level. 

He will fight Jugo 
location: open field
knowledge: none
distance: 10m

Animal path should is at low kage level 
he will fight Mei
location: open field
knowledge: none
distance: 10m

Preta path is at jounin level 
He will fight Shino
Location: open field 
knowledge: none
distance: 10m

i think human paths is at elite jounin level 
he will fight zabuza
location; open field
knowledge: none
distance: 10m 

So pain consists of a mid/high kage level, a chunin level, 2 low kage level, 1 elite jounin level,and a jounin level 

As to the match ups i think hinata beats naraka, jugo and asura, i am fairly 50/50 on it. human looses his head, preta should loose, and animal should loose as well

I styled the matches in a slightly similar fashion
eg: preta absorbs chakra, so does shino. naraka can kill by grabbing you. jukken can kill by hitting u, animal can hide his presence so can Mei. Asura chakra canons and body modifications, so can jugo. etc


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## Duhul10 (Apr 19, 2015)

About the Deva path.
If the distance is like 50,100,200 meters, all Those you pointed loose to Deva because of chibaku tensei ( maybe bar ohnoki due jinton and sandaime due immense durability ) , not sure about Minato ( if he can reach Deva before chibaku)
If the distance is like 5-10 meters, Most of Those you pointed beat deva
And animal path is like low-mid or mid because there is a small category of ninjas that can get past cerberus, the invisibility, plus the other summons which are all connected


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## Turrin (Apr 19, 2015)

Ranking the Paths separately will only lead to silly conclusions, because they are suppose to be viewed as a collective and are given abilities that represent the collective "level" of Pain. If you take them out of the collective, than they each still have ungodly hax abilities, while falling behind in physical stats and versatility. The result being any fight against a path is going to be extremely match up based. If a Path's ability is well suited for a specific match up they can defeat very powerful individuals, while if their ability is not suited they can be trolled by much weaker ones. The result is silly conclusion like Animal-Realm can beat Ei due to Ei lacking an ability to find the Chameleon, while Animal-Realm can loose to much weaker people than Ei that can find chameleon with various perception skills and target Animal-Realm. Same reason Kakashi and the Fatasses could beat Deva-Realm, while SM-Naruto struggled immensely against Deva-Realm.

That's not to say there aren't path's with better abilities than others, because there are, but trying to rank them in comparison to other Ninja individually will never work.


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## LostSelf (Apr 19, 2015)

All the paths can vary in power depending on the amount of chakra Nagato is pushing to them, If Asura Path is the only path in the field, said path will me marginally stronger.

Each Path, if we talk about the 6 paths at the same time, are rubbing the low kage tier, except for Deva, who is beyond. Each path was taking on Chuunin, Jounin and special Jounin such as Ebisu, and they were stomping them like punks.

Naraka as well, so i doubt he is Chuunin level.

Naraka should defeat Hinata, as well Asura should defeat Juugo if it gets a hold of him, as Nagato was able to effectively tie Killer Bee with ease, and Bee was the one that defeated the Raikage in a strenght contest. Juugo is probably getting the fate Killer Bee was going to have if not for Itachi.

Animal Path should lose to Mei, depending on how Cerberus can take the acid mist.

Preta Path should lose. If it grabs Shino and he touches him, the path is dead as the giant bug will eat it from the inside and tear it apart.

Not sure about Human Path. I think Zabuza should be able to take him, however, that's basing Human with the showings he had with the other Pains. Because Human Path being the only one controlled by Nagato, with strenght good enough to block SM Jiraiya's attack and his rods, is very capable of taking on Zabuza.

Also, i agree with Turrin.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

Sorry how on earth are Naraka and Preta anytbing above jounin level 
They are horrendously weak
I get pain is a collective unit 
Naraka lost to konohamaru though let's not forget that .hinata has better reach than Naraka and can also disable him with jukken should Her hits land 
The only way for Naraka to harm her is through chakra rod or grabbing her . Both are Unlikely when she can always hit him before he hits her 
Also Hinata clashed with deva and had him use ST to push her back. Something Naraka can't do . 
Your asura vs killer bee example is entirely false considering that was asura used by Nagato which is leaps and bounds above asura used through a path 

I see no reason why Jugo can't beat him . 

@turrin animal realm can't beat Ei . While Ei can't find animal Realm or but down cerebrus 
Cerebrus can't touch him or harm him if it did
i get what you are saying but i want to know when faced against ninja with similar abilities how the paths of pain fare

For example putting preta against Mei is unfair towards Mei. as she is entirely centered around ninjutsu. While putting preta against rock lee would be preta rape which is equally unfair. Here i feel i balanced the matches fairly, because each ninja they are faced can do what they can


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Nakara at chunin level?

Close this thread immediately.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

konohamaru beat though


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Konohamaru can use Kage Bunshin & Rasengan, B and A rank techniques, there are Jounin with weaker techniques. He needed both to beat Nakara Path. 

Nakara has domain over the King of Hell and Rinnegan oculars, no Path is lower than Jounin level.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Konohamaru can use Kage Bunshin & Rasengan, B and A rank techniques, there are Jounin with weaker techniques. He needed both to beat Nakara Path.
> 
> Nakara has domain over the King of Hell and Rinnegan oculars, no Path is lower than Jounin level.



Sorry so are u trying to say konohamaru is now jounin level?

try troll and say that

how about we put him up against the rookies. who would stomp him 

but hey  trolling is trollign right 

naraka showed enough speed to be reacted to by konohamaru. that alone shows he isnt fast at all 

unless maybe u feel 1 on 1, naraka can beat the likes of kiba, chouji, neji and sai

if not he isnt jounin level

beat the fodder jounin with shades isnt even a feat worth mentioning all those in this thread can do that without trying


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Are you suggesting there are Chunin with a B and A rank technique?

Name one. Do it. 

Speed is irrelevant, Nakara has control over a device that instantly repairs destroyed bodies, can read minds and can devour souls.  

What's more relevant is the path reacted to FRS and dodged it. [1] [2].

That is Jounin level.

Now who can I contact to lock this thread?


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Are you suggesting there are Chunin with a B and A rank technique?
> 
> Name one. Do it.
> 
> ...




  chouji. BM is B rank, chou harite is B rank 
tayuya got B rank techniques
haku got B rank techniques 
funniest one sasuke as a genin in part 1. learnt chidori. guess what rank it is?  ooooh that one must have burnt u. 

naruto is a genin  need i mention the rank of his techniques?

just named 4 right there. see how that works. 

naraka cant repair himself though can he? he would be dead. mind showing feats of naraka repairing himself?

reacting to FRS from a distance. big whoop. 

contact who u want. loosing to konohamaru is terrible. worst is konohamaru was reacting to his attacks using a clone. a clone!!!

go on and argue that naraka beats the likes of kiba, sai, chouji, shikamaru etc. 

note 2 of those are actually chunin.

hinata reacted to something shot out by the juubi.  so what level is that? or are u saying SM naruto can compete with juubi. u know he is a fly to the juubi right


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

> kiba is a chunin.
> so is chouji. BM is B rank, chou harite is B rank
> naruto is a genin  need i mention the rank of his techniques?


So no A-rank technique? 

That's what I thought. 



> just named 2 right there. see how that works.
> 
> naraka cant repair himself though can he? he would be dead. mind showing feats of naraka repairing himself?


Irrelevant, he has control over life & death which far transcends a Jounin level's capacity. 



> reacting to FRS from a distance. big whoop.


I'm about ready to put you on the ignore list.

There are High-Kage that cannot dodge FRS.

Examples:
Danzo, Orochimaru (some consider high kage), 

You lost, stop trying.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

> DaVizWiz said:
> 
> 
> > So no A-rank technique?
> ...


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Naruto and Sasuke are still ranked at Genin. The only ninja you could find with a B and A rank technique at/below Chunin are the two most powerful ninja in the verse?

Ripping Souls + Repairing destroyed bodies = control over life & death

Reacting to FRS and dodging it's expansion by arguably 10m+ is easily Mid-kage level speed. 

Please do not reply to me again Icegaze.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Ripping Souls + Repairing destroyed bodies = control over life & death
> 
> Reacting to FRS and dodging it's expansion by arguably 10m+ is easily Mid-kage level speed.
> 
> Please do not reply to me again Icegaze.



ok butthurt
btw sakura chunin S rank technique. byakuyo.  aaah u in pain on this one. i like it!!! 

Gai dad genin. S rank technique. do u need me to mention more or have u realized u are trollign sir troll

control over life and death of others not his. cut with the trolling. naraka isnt next to your bed is he?

where was said mid-kage level speed against konohamaru? did he loose it?


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

> ok butthurt
> btw sakura chunin S rank technique. byakuyo.  aaah u in pain on this one. i like it!!!
> 
> control over life and death of others not his. cut with the trolling. naraka isnt next to your bed is he?
> ...


Sakura punched Kaguya, the fastest and most durable ninja in the manga in the crown of her head with Byakugan activated, drawing blood. 

I guess the rank Chunin is the most powerful. 

You've got me, Icegaze ()


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Sakura punched Kaguya, the fastest and most durable ninja in the manga in the crown of her head with Byakugan activated, drawing blood.
> 
> I guess the rank Chunin is the most powerful.
> 
> You've got me, Icegaze ()



so is the genin rank 
u know cuz konohamaru got naraka ur apparent guy with mid kage level speed. 


i am glad u can concede sir butthurt

then again sasuke as a genin did learn chidori. and dai did learn 8th gate as a genin

but hey, the ranks are confusing to u i get

in any case with what naraka showed i see no reason why the rookies cant beat him.


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## LostSelf (Apr 19, 2015)

What? Naraka was spanking Jounins with relative ease. That feat alone buries the Konohamaru wof bullshit. Pain took a kid lightly, that's all.

Preta Path was dodging Kiba and Kiba's mother, who, at the very least, by DB's descriptions, are faster than Hinata. Also was defeating Jounins too. I don't know about if he can defeat Hinata or not, but Nagato's reflexes and skills far eclipses hers. And if he gets a hold of her, stealing her chakra, she dies. The same with any Jounin Preta Path gets a hold off. And the thing is that, considering Ninjutsu doesn't affect the man, you need to throw weapons or fight Taijutsu. Talking about generic Jounin, of course.


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Dodging a technique that crosses the entire CT crater in a fraction of a second

from 30m without knowledge on it

=

Chunin level speed.

You're a special guy Icegaze. Not many like you.


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## Ghost (Apr 19, 2015)

Icegze logic tier each of them .


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

lol the butthurt in this thread is epic 
so naraka was taking konohamaru lightly or plot is the BS excuse 
yet avoiding FRS is wanked to no end 

at least lostself can actually post vs the other 2 trolls which preceded his post 
Lostself naraka only ever handled a fodder jounin, and 2 unknown fodder with no name who are probably chunin

i think kishi has already made it quite clear that fodder are just that fodder. konohamaru teacher was trolled by jiriaya frog summon, just its tongue knocked him out. 

naraka kicks the guy without looking. and also note all he can do is hold a bloody kunai

Preta did run away from kiba and his mum. he didnt face them. if he could so easily beat them why not take them out and extract information?

simply put konohamaru>>>the fodder jounin that naraka kicked

@troll viz!! if naraka was that fast. why not blitz konohamaru and be done with it. or are u saying there are mid kage level or jounin level shinobi with actual names and plot relevance who would loose to konohamaru. 
feel free to name one


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## LostSelf (Apr 19, 2015)

If Konohamaru were stronger than Ebisu, he wouldn't be the one being taught. Yes, you cannot put a low end feat above a high-end feat. If somebody dodges a FRS, yet and somehow doesn't avoid a kid who's slower, wich one is the most logical? A side-kick fight or a main fight?

Why would Nagato not take a Genin/Chunin lightly, when he wasn't even taking the Hokage seriously? At the same time he was fighting Kakashi and an entire village? We have more evidence of Naraka being stronger than Jounin. And funny enough, Naraka didn't die from that Rasengan.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> If Konohamaru were stronger than Ebisu, he wouldn't be the one being taught. Yes, you cannot put a low end feat above a high-end feat. If somebody dodges a FRS, yet and somehow doesn't avoid a kid who's slower, wich one is the most logical? A side-kick fight or a main fight?
> 
> Why would Nagato not take a Genin/Chunin lightly, when he wasn't even taking the Hokage seriously? At the same time he was fighting Kakashi and an entire village? We have more evidence of Naraka being stronger than Jounin. And funny enough, Naraka didn't die from that Rasengan.



That would be a fair assessment if minato wasnt stronger than jiriaya his teacher. 
or naruto stronger than kakashi
does that mean naruto has nothing else to learn from kakashi? 
common u can do better than that 

and u cant put a high end feat above a low end feat. what ever that means. i mean who decides these random arbitrary rules ?

maybe FRS is just not that fast which makes sense. for one. kishi never hyped its speed
2 naruto has 3 different ways of makign it land
1) expanding it
2) shadow shirkuen jutsu
3) using chakra arms to guide it

if it was that impossibly fast why would he need to invent methods to ensure it lands?
also zero hype from kishi about its speed. 

naraka didnt die
the only evidence we have of naraka being above jounin. is the fodder jounin he kicked 
whose only ability is to hold a bloody kunai

naraka skill set makes him easy to beat as he is limited. Which is a fact, the same way preta is entirely useless against a taijutsu master despite whatever level u want to put him at

what i dont get is how naraka is going to out do hinata in cqc when deva didnt. he resorted to ST
why waste ST on someone so weak if he didnt need to?


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Icegaze, are you implying that dodging FRS from 30m without knowledge is not Kage level speed?


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

why would it need to be kage level speed though?
and if it is. good for naraka it means he got speed to avoid an attack he can see coming. i dont see how that helps his taijutsu skills or ignores the fact that konohamaru could react to him. 

he shouldnt need to take konohamaru seriously to straight up kill him while not trying 

clearly the power of pain comes through their team effort. 1 on 1 outside deva the paths are very limited 

preta fled from kiba and his mum that isnt worthy at all of any kage level 

the weakest possible kage level would demolish kiba and his mum who is probably weaker


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Because FRS crossed the entire CT crater in less than a second...

Count from 0 to 1, in less than that the technique crossed that entire crater.

Avoiding that from 30m away without knowledge of it's speed or the fact that it can be thrown or expanded?

Are you suggesting that is not a Kage-level speed feat?


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Because FRS crossed the entire Konoha crater in less than a second...
> 
> Count from 0 to 1, in less than that the technique crossed that entire crater.
> 
> ...



and u know it was 1 second?
can u prove this?
how do u tell time through panels ? 

naraka can have god level speed feat if u want him to. the question is simple what happened to that speed against konohamaru

Chiyo could react to satetsu that looked quite ridiculously fast based on kishi empahsis of it

that however doesnt mean everything slower than that would be avoided 

yes naraka avoided FRS. that means he isnt slow. he still lost to konohamaru

and has shown less cqc skills than hinata. so how he is going to be beating hinata, or chouji, or shikamaru (who are all chunin ) i dont know


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Nagato was counting each second between his Shinra Tensei use.
[1]
[2]

Between the 5 and 4 the FRS already exploded on the other side of the crater. 

If you think dodging FRS from 30m without knowledge it can be thrown or of it's speed isn't a Kage-level speed feat you have no idea how to gauge power scale in this manga.


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## Bonly (Apr 19, 2015)

Each path is low Kage level or up by themselves though if they have the same potential as Deva then they would all be mid Kage level and up



Icegaze said:


> and u know it was 1 second?
> can u prove this?
> how do u tell time through panels ?



Actually he can. Here Deva path used ST thus he has to wait five seconds to use his powers again(there's even a box that says five seconds until Deva can attack again). All of *this* happened then on the next page we see the FRS reach the other side of the crater and we see a box that say "*Four seconds to the next jutsu*". If the first scan said there was five seconds until the next jutsu and the last scan said four seconds until the next jutsu, that means one second had passed by when the FRS crossed the crater.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

thanks bonly 
*Four seconds to the next jutsu*

note the same deva who did that 

somehow did not casually evade hinata and use the chakra rod. i mean if we are going to empahsize the pains being so fast cuz of that

why not just straight up blitz hinata and chakra rod her vs using an ST

something naraka doesnt have. so how naraka is winning is beyond me

note hebi sasuke never avoided something like FRS doesnt mean the paths of pain are faster than him now does it

how is preta low kage level?? when he is fleeing from the likes of kiba!! kiba!!!! really??? 

he wont even beat kiba. Also explain how he beats shino in this match up. am well curious


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Your contradictions mean nothing Icegaze. 

Avoiding a technique that moves that quickly from 30m means Nakara Path can react and move it's body at speeds close to the top of the speed spectrum of this manga (Kage level).

Type as many sentences as you want, It just doesn't matter man. The manga already showed us the path could react and move that fast.


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## LostSelf (Apr 19, 2015)

I'll give you an example of high-end feats and Low-end feats.

Low-end feat is Gai and Kisame firing Hirudora and Daikodan at the same time. High-end feat (It might have a different meaning, i just gave it that name) is Gai firing out Hirudora in a weakened state and tied up before Madara could finish his attack. Then, you see people using only the speed Gai displayed with Kisame, when it's obvious that Hirudora is faster than MP, a super sonic attack, clearly ignoring the feat Gai displayed against Madara.

So, the same applies here. Just like it makes more sense Gai's feat against Madara over his feat with Kisame, because Hirudora is faster than MP (A super sonic attack), it makes more sense the feat of Naraka Path being above Chuunin because it dodged FRS and spanked several Jounins, as i doubt he only fought Ebisu, and, of course, because he is controlled by a man far superior to Konohamaru in close quarter fighting.

What can Naraka do to Hinata? Impale her with chakra rods and disrupt her chakra. Deva Path bothering to use ST doesn't mean he cannot react or keep up with Hinata in CqC when it perfectly dodged Kakashi.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 19, 2015)

I

Icegaze said:


> Where would you rate
> 
> Asura path



High/Elite Jounin level. Competes with the likes of Asuma, Base Gai, Darui, Chouza etc.



> Animal path



Low Mid-High Low Jounin level. Competes with Yamato, Shikamaru, Base Kabuto, Hinata etc.



> preta path



High/Elite Jounin level. 



> naraka path



Tokubetsu Jounin level. Competes with Anko, Aoba, Ebisu, Raido etc



> Human path



High/Elite Jounin level.​​


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## Bonly (Apr 19, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> why not just straight up blitz hinata and chakra rod her vs using an ST



Because Nagato can do whatever the fuck he wants to do. There's multiple characters who "could" do one thing instead of another but they don't even though it would make sense, that's just how Kishi is.



> how is preta low kage level?? when he is fleeing from the likes of kiba!! kiba!!!! really???



Because as much as you wanna cry and be butthurt, dodging a sneak attack while blinded doesn't mean he was fleeing. If he was fleeing then he wouldn't have stayed in that room until Animal path summoned him, he would have ran outside and away from that area. 



> he wont even beat kiba.



Yes. Yes he would.



> Also explain how he beats shino in this match up. am well curious



He stabs him with a chakra rod


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Animal Path "competed" with *Jiraiya* in the manga, Godaime Tsunade.

How can an individual who has a near immortal splitting dog summon + invisible lizard, with 5 other large summons, all of which share vision and are void of life be low-Jounin level?

Your assessment of majority of the path's power scale was so far off it was difficult to read.

Every path is at least low-kage level because of their speed & specific special ability. 

Animal & Asura can beat Mid-kage levels depending on the situation.

Deva Path can beat High-kage levels depending on the situation.

Animal & Asura can destroy a village in under an hour.

Deva can wipe a village off the map nearly instantly.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

@Godaime thanks for the post +rep 

u can bitch as much as u want bonly and daviziwiz ur apparent kage level speed character failed to blitz konohamaru on panel thats canon 
cant just deny it cuz it hurts u 

also  
Animal was not competing with jiriaya. jiriaya was buying time for SM. he wasnt even participating in the battle

the way ur troll prevents u from getting that is horrible. 

Animal is really only even a threat because he can camouflage. his summons have shown no speed to indicate the likes of asuma would have trouble dodging them 

but hey hype all u want. 

when all 6 paths of pain are high kage level as a team. yet somehow u think individually they are somehow still kage level 

i take it u feel minato+Ei+onoki+tobirama+itachi+sandaime+MS sasuke who are all high kage level as a team would still be high kage level 
and somehow would still evenly be matched up against a singular high kage level opponent right? Like 7th gate gai for example right

maybe u believe all of them combined are on the same level as gai. 

When as a team u have nagato from a portrayal stand point say jiriaya could have beaten them with knowledge. suuuuuure 6 vs 1. but somehow they are all kage level


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

Jiraiya used a Katon and Oil on Konan, Lion's Mane on Animal's Summon and Animal Path as well as Canopy Barrier, he was forced to summon Gamaken and opted to enter Sage Mode against that path singularly. That's nearly his entire Base arsenal, which would constitute as participation. 

Nothing you say will take away Nakara's Path's speed feat. 

It's not hype, it happened, read the manga or you'll continue to fail at debating.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 19, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Animal Path "competed" with *Jiraiya* in the manga, Godaime Tsunade.
> 
> How can an individual who has a near immortal splitting dog summon + invisible lizard, with 5 other large summons, all of which share vision and are void of life be low-Jounin level?



True, I forgot about the invisibility and splitting dog. Animal Path might go to High/Elite Jounin level, or at best Low Kage level, but considering he can be sensed or detected by shinobi with keen senses of smell or hearing (ie. most Kage-level+ shinobi), he doesn't go any higher. Animal Path himself isn't very strong, its just his summons that are powerful.



> Your assessment of majority of the path's power scale was so far off it was difficult to read.



I'm sorry that it upset you so much.



> Every path is at least low-kage level because of their speed & specific special ability.
> 
> Animal & Asura can beat Mid-kage levels depending on the situation.
> 
> ...



Nah, if all of the Paths were Kage-level then Pein should possess power beyond that of the Gokage. In reality all six paths struggled with just Sage Naruto, and Jiraiya was able to take on 3 of them by himself without sustaining any major injuries. Most of them are Jounin-level, with Deva and maybe Animal Path being the only exceptions to that.



> Deva can wipe a village off the map nearly instantly.



I never mentioned anything about Deva in my assessment; Deva is obviously stronger than the other Paths.​​


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

> True, I forgot about the invisibility and splitting dog. Animal Path might go to High/Elite Jounin level, or at best Low Kage level, but considering he can be sensed or detected by shinobi with keen senses of smell or hearing (ie. most Kage-level+ shinobi), he doesn't go any higher. Animal Path himself isn't very strong, its just his summons that are powerful.​


Being sensed is irrelevant, are you suggesting anyone with a keen nose or hearing can defeat Animal Path? What absurdity. 

There are few ninja in the verse, let alone Kage-class, that have scent detection or ears as good as Zabuza. 



> Nah, if all of the Paths were Kage-level then Pein should possess power beyond that of the Gokage. In reality all six paths struggled with just Sage Naruto, and Jiraiya was able to take on 3 of them by himself without sustaining any major injuries. Most of them are Jounin-level, with Deva and maybe Animal Path being the only exceptions to that.


All six did not struggle, Deva Path alone defeated him the moment his power returned.

SM Naruto with prep, knowledge, boss frogs pre-summoned, 2 Bunshins gathering Natural Energy in Frog Land + Ma/Pa out against Pain without killer intent, absent knowledge and with Deva starting without his powers = fair assessment of Pain's powers?

If Pain had knowledge, started with all his summons out, had killer intent & Deva started at full power Naruto wouldn't have killed a single path and would've been dead within two minutes. Naruto killed 5 paths because Nagato lacked knowledge on his power scale + abilities, and because Nagato was holding back. At least 4 were killed because of trickster techniques that Nagato didn't expect Naruto to utilize, which were geared to avoid/counter his shared vision + their specific abilities, Asura was also killed because Nagato did not expect Naruto to be fast enough to intercept Asura's rocket boot blitz on Tsunade, I.E. lack of knowledge. 

Even giving him basic benefits, such as knowledge on equal terms (equal manga knowledge separate info gained from Tsunade/Kakashi/Ma/Pa/Katsuya, I.E. Nagato knows Naruto is the 9 tails Jin / Survived Deidara + Naruto knows Pain killed Jiraiya and attacked Konoha), Naruto starts in SM, no summons out or clones in Frog Land, and all 6 paths start in front of him at full power- 

you believe Naruto still defeats 5 paths / all six struggle against him? 

(Pain) 5 Low kage + 1 Mid Kage = power greater than (Gokage) 4 Mid-kage and 1 High Kage? 

How did you come up with that assessment?​


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## Alex Payne (Apr 19, 2015)

Assuming Nagato's 100% attention and chakra

Asura - Low Kage. Excellent firepower, long and mid range projectiles, 3 fields of view, excellent physical stats and toughness + rocket boosts, deadly in CQC, hard fight with random body changes.

Animal - Low Kage. Cerberus alone is Kage-worthy ability. Then there are several massive and tough summons, Chameleon to hide, Bird for aerial options, defensive Panda and that weird shit with supplementary Suiton. With each summon having shared Rinnegan vision and Animal being able to potentially unsummon and then resummon then multiple times(Nagato's chakra) and it would become extremely difficult to deal with that horde. 

Human - Elite Jonin. Excellent physical stats, OHKO ability. 

Naraka - Jonin(High End)/Elite Jonin(Low End) - similar to Human but looked like his physical abilities aren't as good. 

Preta - Elite Jonin - excellent physical stats, great anti-ninjutsu ability and solid CQC options(rods, chakra drain)

Deva - Mid Kage(high end) - Chibaku Tensei, gg


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Jiraiya used a Katon and Oil on Konan, Lion's Mane on Animal's Summon and Animal Path as well as Canopy Barrier, he was forced to summon Gamaken and opted to enter Sage Mode against that path singularly. That's nearly his entire Base arsenal, which would constitute as participation.
> 
> Nothing you say will take away Nakara's Path's speed feat.
> 
> It's not hype, it happened, read the manga or you'll continue to fail at debating.



jiriaya decided to enter sage mode on seeing the rinnegan. it had nothing to do with the paths abilities. he believed it to be nagato someone he just heard had defeated hanzo 

i dont see why u mention konan. she got nothing to do with this 

So u are saying animal path vs jiriaya 1 on 1 animal could last. Should we poll that match up. cuz 100% of the forum would tell u jiriaya wins without much difficulty

 please do match up the gokage vs pain. everyone would tell u it would be an ungodly stomp of epic proportions. like wow clean rape 

back pack onoki GG. The gokage survived against 5 susanoo clones each. 5 of those clones massively and horrendously outclass every path bar deva who really would still be killed by 5 susanoo clones. 

On panel nagato said jiriaya with knowledge coudl defeat the paths of pain. Fact! so i dont see how 5 of them suddenly become low kage level

when 5 low kage level and a mid kage would utterly murder jiraiya.

Even when u look at the actual match ups in this thread. How does preta beat shino? note shino did catch obito with his bugs and obito used kamui. 
preta got no speed feats to say he can straight up blitz shino and even if he did, shino touches him. preta dies. and thats shino a bloody jounin that people like darui can troll . Preta is basically only useful against people like Mei who entirely rely on ninjutsu. 

I think the paths of pain bar deva who entirely deserves his hype are being massively overrated. when people start claiming preta who fled from kiba can somehow beat him. The juublings are being underestimated 

hashirama a god compared to nagato said the huge juublings were troublesome. troublesome  to hashirama.  is massive hype. kiba and shino were trolling the little ones. who btw tanked a punch from sakura before her seal release the same sakura that could crush hiruko, the same sakura that killed the centipede summon, that same sakura whose strength kakashi saw and was amazed at the start of part 2. 

How preta is to defend himself from kiba gatenga is beyond me. Considering unlike before its not something kiba cant keep using


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

> Asura - Low Kage. Excellent firepower, long and mid range projectiles, 3 fields of view, excellent physical stats and toughness + rocket boosts, deadly in CQC, hard fight with random body changes.


I agree with this. 



> Animal - Low Kage. Cerberus alone is Kage-worthy ability. Then there are several massive and tough summons, Chameleon to hide, Bird for aerial options, defensive Panda and that weird shit with supplementary Suiton. With each summon having shared Rinnegan vision and Animal being able to potentially unsummon and then resummon then multiple times(Nagato's chakra) and it would become extremely difficult to deal with that horde.


Agreed again.



> Human - Elite Jonin. Excellent physical stats, OHKO ability.


I might be able to agree with this considering he didn't dodge FRS but only reacted to it. Then again, that could be because Nagato was trying to save Animal as it's more useful, but who knows. 

The ability to rip a soul with your hand is one hell of an ability though, it nigh completely bypasses the concept of durability and even immortality (for characters like Kakuzu, Hidan & Orochimaru). 



> Naraka - Jonin(High End)/Elite Jonin(Low End) - similar to Human but looked like his physical abilities aren't as good.


I can't see how someone who reacts/dodges FRS from 30m is considered anything less than low-kage. 

On top of this it also has the ability to rip souls, read minds and it can store the souls/bodies of the captured. It's most important ability being it can repair any damage. That ability is superior to any restoration technique in the manga which would make him low-kage level at least. 



> Preta - Elite Jonin - excellent physical stats, great anti-ninjutsu ability and solid CQC options(rods, chakra drain)


Preta Path reacted to and leaped in front of a thrown FRS, he parried strikes from SM Naruto & reacted to SM Jiraiya who blitzed with a Senjutsu Omeda Rasengan. The dude swallowed Jiraiya's Boiler Wave. 

I could see this path defeating most low-kage, and with the hype of the databook to absorb any form of chakra this path is extremely broken. 

In order to defeat this path you'd have to have powerful non-ocular Genjutsu or speed/taijutsu/fast enough Ninjutsu technique that surpasses SM Naruto's- there are no Elite Jounin capable of that.


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

Preta parried no strike from SM naruto
he dodged one and got pawned by katas. thats not parrying a strike

Davizwiz u are talkign ability wise. this thread about combat wise. i.e who they can beat with their singular abilities. 

yes naraka ability is haxxed but an ability that requires he grabs on to u to be able to take effect is quite limited. and pretty much means even people like temari can become an issue for him. Someone like her cant be an issue for anyone who is low kage level 

the paths abilities are to limited for them to be kage level especially naraka. who showed he can quite simply be tricked. 

unlikely he even gets to the likes of shikamaru before his shadow is caught and from there he dies. again somethign not worthy of a low kage level.
*
Note: obviously all rinnengan techniques are easily above low kage level. and are all probably high. preta can troll most ninjutus based users. however that doesnt slightly help him against taijutsu users. How can he be said to be low kage level when its unlikely he beats people like kiba or asuma and so on. 
being able to absorb ninjutsu is nice and dandy so long as the person u are fighting against is using ninjutsu. When they arent, preta is basically left with his taijutsu skills and a chakra rod. You cant call such a person low kage level. when its so easy to get round his abilities*


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

> Preta parried no strike from SM naruto
> he dodged one and got pawned by katas. thats not parrying a strike


That's correct, I got it mixed up with Naruto parrying Deva Path's strike. 



> Davizwiz u are talkign ability wise. this thread about combat wise. i.e who they can beat with their singular abilities.


Abilities should be factored into overall power scale, it's not all about combat Icegaze, support is also a powerful asset. 



> yes naraka ability is haxxed but an ability that requires he grabs on to u to be able to take effect is quite limited. and pretty much means even people like temari can become an issue for him. Someone like her cant be an issue for anyone who is low kage level


That's one match up Icegaze, and Temari was the reason why the Base 3rd Raikage wasn't slaughtering the alliance. 

Do you think Base 3rd Raikage is not Low-Kage level because Temari was keeping him back?



> the paths abilities are to limited for them to be kage level especially naraka. who showed he can quite simply be tricked.


If by Nakara being tricked you mean Nagato, than that's relevant.

They are limited for them, and all of them are capable of reacting to/avoiding attacks at FRS-level speed, which is commonly referred to as Mid-kage level. 



> *
> Note: obviously all rinnengan techniques are easily above low kage level. and are all probably high. preta can troll most ninjutus based users. however that doesnt slightly help him against taijutsu users. How can he be said to be low kage level when its unlikely he beats people like kiba or asuma and so on.
> being able to absorb ninjutsu is nice and dandy so long as the person u are fighting against is using ninjutsu. When they arent, preta is basically left with his taijutsu skills and a chakra rod. You cant call such a person low kage level. when its so easy to get round his abilities*


Ok, name multiple Elite Jounin level ninja that can defeat Preta Path and then we can begin to consider him at that level.

Asuma or Kiba are not going to beat that Path. 

Preta is left with speed to intercept Sages and their high-speed and high-chakra techniques, with physical strength to lock Sages into place and an ability to sap their reserves nearly dry in an instant. 

Moves as fast as SM Naruto if not faster, Can immobilize him in a lock, Absorbs Senjutsu: FRS/Goemon/Omeda Rasengan/Basically any chakra = not even low kage level?


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## Icegaze (Apr 19, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> That's correct, I got it mixed up with Naruto parrying Deva Path's strike.
> 
> Abilities should be factored into overall power scale, it's not all about combat Icegaze, support is also a powerful asset.



in a 1 on 1 situation it is about combat abilities though 



> That's one match up Icegaze, and Temari was the reason why the Base 3rd Raikage wasn't slaughtering the alliance.



shikamaru, kankuro, chiyo. too many ninja to list



> Do you think Base 3rd Raikage is not Low-Kage level because Temari was keeping him back?



she would be killing naraka thats the difference



> If by Nakara being tricked you mean Nagato, than that's relevant.



tricking nagato isnt impossible. wouldnt help konohamaru get the drop on him though 



> They are limited for them, and all of them are capable of reacting to/avoiding attacks at FRS-level speed, which is commonly referred to as Mid-kage level.





> which does nothing for their battle speed. though and how they fight in cqc
> 
> Ok, name multiple Elite Jounin level ninja that can defeat Preta Path and then we can begin to consider him at that level.



chouji, zabuza, neji, asuma. There arent many elite jounin level shinobi. those are the only 4 i know. 5 if u count jugo in that group




> Asuma or Kiba are not going to beat that Path.



do explain how preta path survives asuma or kiba. what is it goign to do? it cant run away in this situation. kiba basically only uses taijutsu that preta cant hope to block. avoiding it isnt impossible, however consistently thats unlikely. 



> Preta is left with speed to intercept Sages and their high-speed and high-chakra techniques, with physical strength to lock Sages into place and an ability to sap their reserves nearly dry in an instant.



which doesnt help him against kiba or shino. or asuma



> This dude literally parallels the physical stats of a Perfect Sage, his ability negates most Ninjutsu techniques and he can suck an opponent's chakra with physical touch, meaning Taijutsu is not exactly going to be the best option against it.



he absorbed naruto sage mode. no Sm chakra no Sm physical stats. so he restrained a base naruto. thats not impressive 



> Moves as fast as SM Naruto if not faster, Can immobilize him in a lock, Absorbs Senjutsu: FRS/Goemon/Omeda Rasengan/Basically any chakra = not even low kage level?



what the actual fuck. did u just say preta path is faster than Sm naruto. ?  
not sure if serious 
no fuckign way u are serious. really??? yet u the same guy who says SM naruto is faster than sandaime. so no preta is faster than sandaime raikage? 

oh common!!! 

again u talk about his absorption how does that help him against kiba, lee, neji, hiashi, and all the bloody taijutsu or non ninjutsu related fighters in the manga

u cant be low kage level when the only time u a threat is when the person uses ninjutsu. 
bar that he got a chakra rod. 

perhaps evading FRS is being horribly overrated. because u want it to be. deva being able to react 2 despite being never mentioned as fast by kishi should indicate FRS really isnt that fast. crossing whatever distance in a second is impressive sure. 

but when we got ninja crossing mountain ranges in the same time frame it becomes a tad less impressive.

*edit: perhaps saying FRS speed is overhyped is the wrong way to put it. however being able to avoid it is what is overhyped 

The fastest man alive can just about run at 20mph. yet u have ur everyday people being able to jump out of the way of a car moving at them at 50mph when they see it coming. doesnt mean they can ever achieve those speed those. 

uve seen table tennis. 90% of the time they arent even seeing the ball but are able to react to it. u dont have to be as fast or faster than something to react. kishi has shown this throughout his manga

we have jugo who has shown no speed  bar reacting to V1 Ei and putting up a defense. doesnt mean jugo can cross the same distance nearly as quickly. Same applies to techniques. avoiding FRS is just that. avoiding it. it doesnt suddenly mean any path can cross mountain ranges in a second. *


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 19, 2015)

> in a 1 on 1 situation it is about combat abilities though


1 on 1 situations aren't the only thing that determine a power scale. 



> shikamaru, kankuro, chiyo. too many ninja to list


Shikamaru's shadows are eaten up and he's blitzed by Preta.

Kankuro's chakra strings are eaten off and he's blitzed. 

Chiyo is low-kage level. 



> tricking nagato isnt impossible. wouldnt help konohamaru get the drop on him though


Obviously, tricking anyone isn't impossible. 



> chouji, zabuza, neji, asuma. There arent many elite jounin level shinobi. those are the only 4 i know. 5 if u count jugo in that group


I consider Choji low if not mid-kage level, Zabuza is low-kage level. 

Neji & Asuma stand no chance in defeating Preta Path. Asuma is slower than him, his Ninjutsu is absorbed. Neji is all taijutsu, and his taijutsu is slower than SM Naruto's and is entirely chakra-based (absorbed). 

Choji would probably beat him Butterfly Mode. 



> do explain how preta path survives asuma or kiba. what is it goign to do? it cant run away in this situation. kiba basically only uses taijutsu that preta cant hope to block. avoiding it isnt impossible, however consistently thats unlikely.


Asuma is slower than him, his Ninjutsu is not fast or strong enough to stop absorption. He's killed. 

Kiba's strongest technique isn't fast enough to hit Preta Path and leaves him a large target for Preta's hands. He's killed. 



> which doesnt help him against kiba or shino. or asuma


None of which have techniques fast enough to touch him. 



> he absorbed naruto sage mode. no Sm chakra no Sm physical stats. so he restrained a base naruto. thats not impressive


He put SM Naruto in a choke hold and restrained him from moving [1] while he absorbed his Sage Mode. Do you understand how physically powerful SM Naruto is? That would mean that Preta Path's physical grappling strength is incredible. 



> what the actual fuck. did u just say preta path is faster than Sm naruto. ?
> not sure if serious
> no fuckign way u are serious. really??? yet u the same guy who says SM naruto is faster than sandaime. so no preta is faster than sandaime raikage?


How much faster do you think SM Naruto is compared to FRS? Lol

I have never said SM Naruto was faster than Sandaime. 



> again u talk about his absorption how does that help him against kiba, lee, neji, hiashi, and all the bloody taijutsu or non ninjutsu related fighters in the manga


They all have chakra pools, which can be sapped. 

Hiashi is low-kage level, his double vacuum palm knocked a Juubi arm back. 

6th Gate Lee is low-kage level, he reacted to and outran a Truth Seeker. 

Why are you specifically naming Taijutsu masters?



> u cant be low kage level when the only time u a threat is when the person uses ninjutsu.
> bar that he got a chakra rod.


Any ninja that uses Taijutsu against Preta Path will automatically defeat him?

Unless their taijutsu on SM Naruto's level it's not going to work. There isn't a single ninja in the Elite Jounin class with taijutsu on SM Naruto's level. 


> perhaps evading FRS is being horribly overrated. because u want it to be. deva being able to react 2 despite being never mentioned as fast by kishi should indicate FRS really isnt that fast. crossing whatever distance in a second is impressive sure.


Nope, nope it's not.

Deva was fast enough to stab Kakashi in the shoulder without a reaction, was fast enough to react to SM Naruto clones with ST on multiple occasions, was fast enough to avoid the strikes of all 3 boss frogs consecutively, was fast enough to outrun KN6 Naruto. 



> but when we got ninja crossing mountain ranges in the same time frame it becomes a tad less impressive.


That would be whom? Minato, Hashirama? Two High Kage+ ninja?


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 19, 2015)

Realistically they're all the same level because they're all piloted by the same guy.

By feats they vary, but that's because Nagato has to divide his attention.  The path that gets the most attention, as well as the most chakra, is the strongest.  That's usually Deva because Nagato is really attached to that body.  Generally most of them cruise around Pain Invasion Kakashi level or a little better, which is low to mid-kage, when all are active.  But even people stronger than that lose because they get ganged up on like Jiraiya.


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## Nikushimi (Apr 19, 2015)

Naraka: Jonin-level
Human: Jonin-level
Preta: Jonin-level
Animal: Elite Jonin-level
Asura: Elite Jonin-level
Deva: Mid Kage-level


Fighting Pain is basically like fighting a Kage, _both_ personal bodyguards, _and_ a small backup platoon--all of them sharing eyesight and thoughts.


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## Icegaze (Apr 20, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> 1 on 1 situations aren't the only thing that determine a power scale.



In the battle dome it is. hence battle!!!



> Shikamaru's shadows are eaten up and he's blitzed by Preta.



fair enough



> Kankuro's chakra strings are eaten off and he's blitzed.



less likely. he cant be running at kankuro while using preta path u seen anyone using preta path in motion?



> Chiyo is low-kage level.



true and she violates



> Obviously, tricking anyone isn't impossible.



 i know but konohamaru beating him was bad 



> I consider Choji low if not mid-kage level, Zabuza is low-kage level.



 omg chouji mid kage level. so he is on the same level as Ei , sasori and the likes. omg!!! he is so far from that level its not even funny. mid kage level would imply one of 2 things

either amongst the gokage he can take out 2 or 3 out of 5. which is laughable as he can take out none
or of all the kages in the story line he is at mid level. which again is laughable because every one with the title of kage can baby shake him 

same for zabuza



> Neji & Asuma stand no chance in defeating Preta Path. Asuma is slower than him, his Ninjutsu is absorbed. Neji is all taijutsu, and his taijutsu is slower than SM Naruto's and is entirely chakra-based (absorbed).



prove asuma is slower. why not avoiding FRS. well it was never used against him 

asuma reacted to kisame who reacted to killer bee. who crosses mountain ranges in 1 shunshin. 



> Choji would probably beat him Butterfly Mode.



no shit. of course he would. doesnt make him this fake kage level u mention. when every kage can beat chouji



> Asuma is slower than him, his Ninjutsu is not fast or strong enough to stop absorption. He's killed.



who says asuma will use ninjutsu. his trench knives are enough. he extends the chakra quicker than preta can react. since he was able to do it quicker than kisame can react. 



> Kiba's strongest technique isn't fast enough to hit Preta Path and leaves him a large target for Preta's hands. He's killed.



yh cuz preta can stop him from spinning right. 



> None of which have techniques fast enough to touch him.



so he avoids FRS once and now he got god speed. well another who avoided FRS failed to blitz konohamaru. 



> He put SM Naruto in a choke hold and restrained him from moving [1] while he absorbed his Sage Mode. Do you understand how physically powerful SM Naruto is? That would mean that Preta Path's physical grappling strength is incredible.



Sm was pulled and restrained by BT. he grabbed. him and started drainign his chakra immediately. hence why when naruto tried to force himself out. he realized he had no SM chakra left 



> How much faster do you think SM Naruto is compared to FRS? Lol



he is faster. u sayign he is slower than a technique never mentioned for its speed?



> I have never said SM Naruto was faster than Sandaime.
> 
> They all have chakra pools, which can be sapped.



to do that preta must grab them. no way preta is grabbing the likes of asuma without support 



> Hiashi is low-kage level, his double vacuum palm knocked a Juubi arm back.



i know 


> 6th Gate Lee is low-kage level, he reacted to and outran a Truth Seeker.



and trolls preta 



> Why are you specifically naming Taijutsu masters?
> 
> Any ninja that uses Taijutsu against Preta Path will automatically defeat him?



so far u said, rock lee would, hiashi would. i know the others can as well 

using taijutsu is automatically makes u a threat to  him since he isnt any good at it. and doesnt like physical attacks. this was said on panel when he fled from kiba and his mum. he blocked the attack and immediately went spider man to the top corner of the wall. thats not someone who feels confident about physical confrontation 



> Unless their taijutsu on SM Naruto's level it's not going to work. There isn't a single ninja in the Elite Jounin class with taijutsu on SM Naruto's level.
> Nope, nope it's not.



odd Sm naruto level 1 paneled him. i dont see why they need to 1 panel him. hiashi taijutus is also not Sm naruto level and u already said he wins 



> Deva was fast enough to stab Kakashi in the shoulder without a reaction, was fast enough to react to SM Naruto clones with ST on multiple occasions, was fast enough to avoid the strikes of all 3 boss frogs consecutively, was fast enough to outrun KN6 Naruto


. 

and still didnt blitz hinata without trying 



> That would be whom? Minato, Hashirama? Two High Kage+ ninja?



ur levels hold no basis the second u said chouji is mid kage level. that made me laugh

No for real mid kage level who can't beat anyone who has ever held that title shown on panel . 

@niku thanks U are at least getting what I mean
What do u think about a shino vs preta how does it go
We know he fled from kiba would he flee here ?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 20, 2015)

Hell = Genin/Chuuin

Human = Chuunin/low  jounin

Ghost = Chuunin/low jounin

Animal = mid Jounin, bordering high jounin

Asura = High Jounin

Deva = Low Kage(overall) - Mid/High Kage if he can use CST or CT




Icegaze said:


> Deva isnt being rated here. though i didnt get the last part of ur post. why wont he use CST or CT
> 
> hell level is way too low though. i say he is chunin/jounin level. of named characters with plot relevance who are all obviously superior to the likes of ibesu or whatever the sun glasses guy name  is and iruka.
> 
> ...




CT and CST are a bit circumstantial abilities. CST leaves him powerless for 5 minutes and CT requires him to be close proximity to Nagato.
But yeah, he should be able to defeat mid - high kage level shinobi if he can get those abilities off before he gets killed beforehand. 

Hell realm was losing to Konohomaru, who was a genin @ the time. While Konohomaru maybe an exceptional genin, I believe some rookies from part 1 would be able to defeat him as well.
So genin - chuunin is a right estimation imo.


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## Icegaze (Apr 20, 2015)

Deva isnt being rated here. though i didnt get the last part of ur post. why wont he use CST or CT 

hell level is way too low though. i say he is chunin/jounin level. of named characters with plot relevance who are all obviously superior to the likes of ibesu or whatever the sun glasses guy name  is and iruka. 

as hell path would destroy those guys 2 vs 1. However i dont see how for this match up hell path is supposed to beat hinata. when she wasnt brushed aside by deva in cqc 

How do u see a preta vs shino match going?


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## Nikushimi (Apr 20, 2015)

The problem I have with ranking Pain's bodies is that they all seem to have physical capabilities in the high to Elite Jonin range (Asura earns Kage class, in that respect, easily), but most of them lack any Jutsu beyond the one Jutsu that identifies their path (e.g., summoning, soul-ripping, absorption); that severely limits what they can do on their own. You have a bunch of guys who are essentially strong enough to fistfight Kakashi, but the moment it becomes a dickmeasuring contest between Jutsu they get raped.

You also have Naraka, who was casually chokeholding two Chuunin/Jonin at the same time, getting murked by Konohamaru with a clone+Rasengan strategy. Granted, Nagato was probably being careless and didn't know what the boy could do.


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## Icegaze (Apr 20, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> The problem I have with ranking Pain's bodies is that they all seem to have physical capabilities in the high to Elite Jonin range (Asura is likely in the Kage class, in that respect), but most of them lack any Jutsu beyond the one Jutsu that identifies their path (e.g., summoning, soul-ripping, absorption); that severely limits what they can do on their own. You have a bunch of guys who are essentially strong enough to fistfight Kakashi, but the moment it becomes a dickmeasuring contest between Jutsu they get raped.
> 
> You have Naraka, who was casually chokeholding two Chuunin/Jonin at the same time, getting murked by Konohamaru with a clone+Rasengan strategy. Granted, Nagato was probably being careless and didn't know what the boy could do.



precisely 
though being able to physcially compete with kakashi doesnt mean much considering kakashi isnt a physical type of fighter 

i mean preta fled from kiba and has no way to actually beat shino since he simply has no feats to imply he can straight up blitz shino who could have left a bunshin there. preta grabs a bug bunshin and dies miserably. the bugs will feed off preta 

yet preta fighting Mei would be able to give her a whole load of trouble 

i really dont see how naraka can out do hinata in cqc when she got the better reach and the much better taijutsu style. 

lets not forget at 3 times he chakra level she air palmed juubi tail. juubi tail>>>>>>>>>naraka in size 
its not impossible for her to said naraka flyign with her air palm. then proceed to 64 palms which took out a juubling which by all accounts should still have far more chakra than a path of pain 
seeing thats its a part of juubi 

and juubi chakra>>>>>>>>>>>Xinfinity>>>>nagato chakra levels

@Davizwiz
please note that even the likes of suigetsu who is no where close to low kage level has a technique which was capable of pushing back the second strongest bijuu
tate eboshi both on panel and in the manga is described to be capable of pushing back a bijuu 

so the paths showing the speed to avoid FRS dont suddenly put them at kage level or suigetsu would be kage level for pushing back the hachibi yet
every single kage in history murder lol stomps suigetsu without even trying hard
regardless of if suigetsu has a water source or not


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## Duhul10 (Apr 20, 2015)

How the f... Is animal jounin level ?
He can damage a village pretty well all by himself
He managed to stall a sannin all by himself ( he was just hiding and sending summons but still )
Cerberus it is really durable
I do not know a jounin level ninja, who can beat animal path ( especially if the distance is significant )
Animal was able not only to survive sage Jiraiya's kick without Being knocked out like human, but he survived then to a sage mode rasengan and after that he attacked after he fell in the hot acid.


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## Icegaze (Apr 20, 2015)

Duhul10 said:


> How the f... Is animal jounin level ?
> He can damage a village pretty well all by himself
> He managed to stall a sannin all by himself ( he was just hiding and sending summons but still )
> Cerberus it is really durable
> ...



for the same reason deidara can level a village in 1 move yet he is a tier or 2 below minato 
thats why. 

animal got AoE jutsu doesnt help him much against higher level opponents though 

perhaps not jounin level. However i really dont see why shino would be unable to beat him

shino is well designed to counter him 

bugs by pass his durability and drain him of chakra simply. all animal summons will be trolled by bugs draining them of their chakra. 
all bar cerebus can be 1 shotted by the giant bugs 

bugs will find chameleon no effort 

however Ei cant find animal path despite being much much stronger than shino 

hence the match ups. i set up, i put them up against people who can do what they do or have similar abilities 

and there isnt 1 path i see winning the match ups 

obviously if u stack preta against Mei its not indicative of his level because he is well suited to counter Mei


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 20, 2015)

> In the battle dome it is. hence battle!!!


So support means absolutely jack to you? Even considering the fact the path can repair any damage?



> less likely. he cant be running at kankuro while using preta path u seen anyone using preta path in motion?


Why can't he move while using his power?

Just because we haven't seen the path absorbing while moving doesn't mean he can't do it, ninja can move while casting Ninjutsu. 



> i know but konohamaru beating him was bad


Yes, and I didn't chose to write it that way but we can deny his high end feats. 



> omg chouji mid kage level. so he is on the same level as Ei , sasori and the likes. omg!!! he is so far from that level its not even funny. mid kage level would imply one of 2 things


BM Choji beat Edo Kakuzu and tanked a Gedo Mazo roar.

His physical power and size alone would warrant low-kage level. As far as mid-kage level, that's a stretch indeed- which is why I said maybe. 



> either amongst the gokage he can take out 2 or 3 out of 5. which is laughable as he can take out none
> or of all the kages in the story line he is at mid level. which again is laughable because every one with the title of kage can baby shake him


You have a strange way of defining Mid-kage level. For the most part a Mid-kage level is someone who beats majority of low-kage level opponents and can compete with other Mid-kage levels. 

BM Expanded Choji can beat Mei and arguably Gaara. Lava/Suitons are punched through and sand isn't doing anything to him, especially if they start on a balanced terrain (forest). He can stall an army and destroy a village. 



> prove asuma is slower. why not avoiding FRS. well it was never used against him


Asuma is slower than Pre-war arc Kakashi, who could not avoid Susano Arrow, which is slower than FRS.



> asuma reacted to kisame who reacted to killer bee. who crosses mountain ranges in 1 shunshin.


Reacted to Reacted to is irrelevant. Kisame's shunshin speed, which he did not utilize against Asuma, is slower than his own perception/reaction speed. He's shown multiple times perceiving and intelligently deducing technique's linear progression, techniques that he admits he can't avoid (Gated Gai's Morning Peacock Kick, Gated Gai's Afternoon Tiger), he literally thinks and sees faster than he moves. Kisame isn't a blitzing machine but he's a lot faster when he's in close quarters.  

But that's also irrelevant considering Part I Kisame < Part 2 Kisame in all levels of feats 



> no shit. of course he would. doesnt make him this fake kage level u mention. when every kage can beat chouji


Dude he has a chance against Mei & Gaara with the right stipulations, they are bad match ups for him. 



> who says asuma will use ninjutsu. his trench knives are enough. he extends the chakra quicker than preta can react. since he was able to do it quicker than kisame can react.


That didn't work against Hidan, nor will it work against Preta Path.  



> yh cuz preta can stop him from spinning right.


Yes, he can physically grab him before he spins and stick a chakra rod in his temple. 



> so he avoids FRS once and now he got god speed. well another who avoided FRS failed to blitz konohamaru.


High end feats > Low end feats.

Most of the people already agreed Nagato's judgement was the reason Nakara was beaten by Konohamaru. 



> Sm was pulled and restrained by BT. he grabbed. him and started drainign his chakra immediately. hence why when naruto tried to force himself out. he realized he had no SM chakra left


No, he had SM Chakra for multiple seconds while Preta had him in the hold. Yes, his power was draining, but it didn't happen instantly. 



> he is faster. u sayign he is slower than a technique never mentioned for its speed?


Did I say he was slower? I said how much faster than FRS do you think he is?

If you don't think FRS is fast you obviously do not read the manga. Crossing the CT crater in a second is ridiculous speed.

Even KCM Naruto opted to use it as his primary attack. 



> to do that preta must grab them. no way preta is grabbing the likes of asuma without support


Lol you've provided nothing that even remotely suggests Asuma can prevent this 



> so far u said, rock lee would, hiashi would. i know the others can as well


Rock Lee and Hiashi are taijutsu masters and they're both low-kage. 



> using taijutsu is automatically makes u a threat to him since he isnt any good at it. and doesnt like physical attacks. this was said on panel when he fled from kiba and his mum. he blocked the attack and immediately went spider man to the top corner of the wall. thats not someone who feels confident about physical confrontation


Where did you come up with the assessment that's he's not any good at Taijutsu?

Dude the same path went directly at SM Naruto fully knowing his speed (destoyed Asura) & physical strength (stopped a Rhino's charge completely, then threw into the lower atmosphere). 

Now that's confidence.  



> odd Sm naruto level 1 paneled him. i dont see why they need to 1 panel him. hiashi taijutus is also not Sm naruto level and u already said he wins


Hiashi has wall vacuum palm that knocked a Juubi hand back- that's the reason he beats Preta.



> ur levels hold no basis the second u said chouji is mid kage level. that made me laugh


At this point I hold no respect for what you consider Mid-kage level, you are easily one of the most radical judges of power scale I've seen on this forum in a while. 



> No for real mid kage level who can't beat anyone who has ever held that title shown on panel .


Right, and Minato's greatest victory was over a fodder Jounin in the Gaiden arc. Is Minato Jounin level, Icegaze?

>"beat" fodder Jounin
>Did not "beat" A or B
>Did not "beat" Obito, died in the battle against his summon, canonically admitted he couldn't stop him 

According to your train of thought Minato doesn't eclipse High Jounin level.

As for countering your point, BM Choji was implied to have defeated Edo Kakuzu in the war, a stronger version of living Edo Kakuzu who is widely considered Mid-kage level.


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## Alex Payne (Apr 20, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Susano Arrow, which is slower than FRS.


Where did you get that from?


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## Icegaze (Apr 20, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> So support means absolutely jack to you? Even considering the fact the path can repair any damage?



in a 1 on 1 situation no. support jutsu arent useful. take ino for example. she cant do much on her own 



> Why can't he move while using his power?



feats or indications that he can. feel free to show that. its like deva using shunshin while using ST. 



> Just because we haven't seen the path absorbing while moving doesn't mean he can't do it, ninja can move while casting Ninjutsu.



this is true. preta however hasnt shown this or been implied he can. i mean its like me saying deva uses shunshin while using ST. i mean it sounds far fetched or onoki using shunshin while using jinton. do u see him flying full speed while shooting jinton?



> Yes, and I didn't chose to write it that way but we can deny his high end feats.



all feats must be looked at 



> BM Choji beat Edo Kakuzu and tanked a Gedo Mazo roar.



beat edo kakuzu with support 
and he got blown away by the roar 



> His physical power and size alone would warrant low-kage level. As far as mid-kage level, that's a stretch indeed- which is why I said maybe.



low kage implies he can compete with the lower end of kages which he cant. the weakest are either rasa or Mei on panel. both easily beat him



> You have a strange way of defining Mid-kage level. For the most part a Mid-kage level is someone who beats majority of low-kage level opponents and can compete with other Mid-kage levels.



low kage level= can compete with the weakest ninja holding the kage title of all kages in the manga 
or = can fight or beat mei in 1 on 1. chouji can do neither



> BM Expanded Choji can beat Mei and arguably Gaara. Lava/Suitons are punched through and sand isn't doing anything to him, especially if they start on a balanced terrain (forest). He can stall an army and destroy a village.



. no feats of destroying a village. lava or acid mist GG. gaara sand drizzles him. it punches through chouji skin from there gaara lolz at him. 



> Asuma is slower than Pre-war arc Kakashi, who could not avoid Susano Arrow, which is slower than FRS.



 omg!! thats funny. only one of those techniques was hyped for its speed 3 times in the manga. wanna guess which one? susanoo arrow
danzo couldnt avoid it, kakashi couldnt avoid it. kabuto avoiding it made sasuek shit himself 

btw kakashi is easily faster than all paths of pain and kakashi couldnt avoid susanoo arrow. so its entirely fucking laughable u think FRS is faster than susanoo arrow. what a baseless statement 



> Reacted to Reacted to is irrelevant. Kisame's shunshin speed, which he did not utilize against Asuma, is slower than his own perception/reaction speed. He's shown multiple times perceiving and intelligently deducing technique's linear progression, techniques that he admits he can't avoid (Gated Gai's Morning Peacock Kick, Gated Gai's Afternoon Tiger), he literally thinks and sees faster than he moves. Kisame isn't a blitzing machine but he's a lot faster when he's in close quarters.



hardly irrevelant in cqc. 
yes he is faster in close quarters and asuma got him 



> But that's also irrelevant considering Part I Kisame < Part 2 Kisame in all levels of feats



yes cuz in part 1 he never used any AoE jutsu. kishi also never implied his skills improved in the time skip. its like saying part 1 itachi <<<part 2 itachi
when they are the same character with zero stated progress made in the time skip



> Dude he has a chance against Mei & Gaara with the right stipulations, they are bad match ups for him.



he has no chance. do feel free to poll the thread



> That didn't work against Hidan, nor will it work against Preta Path.



hidan got a mid range scythe. i didnt know preta had one . does he please show me. hidan tagged asuma because he had the perfect weapon for it. 
notice kisame didnt tag asuma without being tagged himself



> Yes, he can physically grab him before he spins and stick a chakra rod in his temple.



sadly fleeing from kiba implies he isnt capable of doing that. 

also note the scan clearly says we heard this one doesnt like physical attacks. notice how far up the wall he is 
also they were sent to find him because they use exclusively physical attacks 

That is a single Amaterasu

even sakon and ukon could stop kiba gatsuga in part 1. so clearly if u are physically strong enough u can stop it. 

preta indicates he simply isnt strong enough to do that. or he wouldnt need to be up in the corner of the wall. he would have stood his ground. pun intended, and had them go at him. stop them and then kill them. however, notice how far up the wall he is. 

Now if gatsuga is discouraging him imagine gatenga. preta gets split in half 



> High end feats > Low end feats.



 is that a BD rule? or one u made up because its convenient and helps u sleep at night



> Most of the people already agreed Nagato's judgement was the reason Nakara was beaten by Konohamaru


. 

naraka was beaten simply put 



> No, he had SM Chakra for multiple seconds while Preta had him in the hold. Yes, his power was draining, but it didn't happen instantly.



feel free to prove it was multiple seconds. the panel u showed me, his chakra is already being drained



> Did I say he was slower? I said how much faster than FRS do you think he is?



faster, how much i dont know 



> If you don't think FRS is fast you obviously do not read the manga. Crossing the CT crater in a second is ridiculous speed.



says the guy who thinks FRS is faster than susanoo arrow 



> Even KCM Naruto opted to use it as his primary attack.



it was his strongest bar BD. not because of its speed 



> Lol you've provided nothing that even remotely suggests Asuma can prevent this
> 
> Rock Lee and Hiashi are taijutsu masters and they're both low-kage.



and uve provided nothing that suggests asuma cant. when asuma is tagging kisame in cqc 



> Where did you come up with the assessment that's he's not any good at Taijutsu?



fleeign from kiba!! kiba!!! fuckign kiba!!! Also kiba and his mum words where 
reports say this path doesnt like physical attacks. 

why run away from a fist fight against kiba?



> Dude the same path went directly at SM Naruto fully knowing his speed (destoyed Asura) & physical strength (stopped a Rhino's charge completely, then threw into the lower atmosphere).
> 
> Now that's confidence.



the same path with 10 other pair of eyes as back up. , also he got 1 shotted. 



> Hiashi has wall vacuum palm that knocked a Juubi hand back- that's the reason he beats Preta.



he trolls preta big difference



> At this point I hold no respect for what you consider Mid-kage level, you are easily one of the most radical judges of power scale I've seen on this forum in a while.



says the guy putting chouji at mid kage level  when every kage trolls chouji 



> Right, and Minato's greatest victory was over a fodder Jounin in the Gaiden arc. Is Minato Jounin level, Icegaze?



 actually his greatest victory was sealign kyuubi and trollign EI.  aaaah is butthurt makign u forget that 



> >"beat" fodder Jounin
> >Did not "beat" A or B
> >Did not "beat" Obito, died in the battle against his summon, canonically admitted he couldn't stop him



he did troll him 



> According to your train of thought Minato doesn't eclipse High Jounin level.



ah butthurt makign u make things up. minato greatest achievement was sealing kyuubi and trolling Ei
;maybe u trolling 



> As for countering your point, BM Choji was implied to have defeated Edo Kakuzu in the war, a stronger version of living Edo Kakuzu who is widely considered Mid-kage level.



scans that chouji was implied to have beaten him by himself. when chouji had back up against blood asuma. 

oh u are too funny.


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## LostSelf (Apr 20, 2015)

The Sound 4 needed to gang on 2 tired Jounins, using cursed seal, and they couldn't even kill them.

Naraka was likely kicking some Jounin of that level's ass with ease. So yeah, another reason to believe Naraka is higher than that level of Jounin, by a very good margin.


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## Icegaze (Apr 20, 2015)

and loosing to konohamaru
also current jounin neji, shino, chouji, kiba
those 3 lol destroy him 

so i dont see how he can be considered on their level with his massively limited arsenal


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## LostSelf (Apr 20, 2015)

So you decide to take that lone thing over much more impressive feats.

He dodges FRS
Kicked Jounins, who were more powerful than the sound 4 combined, sound 4 that gave Chuunin levels like Neji, who would embarrass Konohamaru badly, a hard, hard fight, and Neji admitted that Kidomaru was stronger than himself.

And is chunnin level because Konohamaru gets a lucky shot that doesn't give him the win either, as Naraka didn't even die nor had any kind of injury.

He has more feats that puts him above Jounin level than that. Enough to effectively say that Konohamaru got a lucky shot.


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## Icegaze (Apr 21, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> So you decide to take that lone thing over much more impressive feats.
> 
> He dodges FRS
> Kicked Jounins, who were more powerful than the sound 4 combined, sound 4 that gave Chuunin levels like Neji, who would embarrass Konohamaru badly, a hard, hard fight, and Neji admitted that Kidomaru was stronger than himself.
> ...



so stack him up against hinata who is a chunin at chunin level 
she beats him 

Air palm at 3X her chakra level deflects juubi tail which is>>>>>>>>>>naraka size
64 palms a juubiling. who btw could straight up tank sakura punch which killed the centipede summon on impact
clashed with deva path and he used ST to troll her vs besting her in cqc 

i dont see how kicking 2 fodder jounin or chunin who btw never faced the sound 4. genma and raido are much stronger than the fodders naraka beat 

in dont see how what naraka did is more impressive than what hinata has done. should she now be jounin level?


cuz lord knows fodder jounin and chunin where struggling against zetsu who are mere fodder to juubilings
and hinata had no issues dealing with 1.

shino 1 shots juubiling and his bugs had obito use kamui to escape. as he said speed wont stop them from chasing u 

chouji can stall the gedo mazo and his partial transformation punch could straight up cripple asura path. should chouji now be kage level?

kiba spins and slices 3 of them casually. when sakura punch cant even dent one, despite the fact that she was strong enough to straight up kill a pain summon. 

shikamaru straight up caught hidan on his own. despite hidan knowledge

there isnt a single rookie that cant take on naraka. bar ino because she isnt well suited to fight naraka

every non support based rookie showed abilities that vastly and horrendous out do naraka fighting abilities. doesnt make all those rookies elite jounin or more 
some are just about jounin despite their 1 shot techniques. eg: shino


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 21, 2015)

Low Jounin - Mid Kage
They're exponentially stronger as a collective group.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 22, 2015)

If we are using fodder as a measuring stick, then sure, each pain path is easily jounin level and above. But so is Konohomaru.


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## RedChidori (Apr 26, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> Assuming Nagato's 100% attention and chakra
> 
> Asura - Low Kage. Excellent firepower, long and mid range projectiles, 3 fields of view, excellent physical stats and toughness + rocket boosts, deadly in CQC, hard fight with random body changes.
> 
> ...



Basically this .


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## Icegaze (May 1, 2015)

@red chidori how can asura be low kage level when 1 partial multi size punch from chouji cripples him ?
Note Jugo took 2 punches from Ei . Would you consider Jugo low kage level ? How does asura fair agaibst Jugo ?

I think Jugo should beat him . Seeing that they have similar fighting styles but Jugo is more durable 

I agree about animal path . for me it's the second strongest path 

Same I agree with human path . How does he fair against Zabuza though ? I don't think he can beat Zabuza 

Preta as elite jounin yes thats fair . I can agree to that . How does he fair agaibst shino . Give me ur pov on that match 

Deva as mid kage . I gotta agree to this . Sounds right

I agree about Naraka how does he fair against Hinata though . Both have 1 thing in common if they make contact they can win very easily


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## Bkprince33 (May 2, 2015)

i agree with ice except for animal path, he is not low kage level, he is actually high jounin level, you can spam all you want but all his opponent has to do is kill him and they all go away.


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## Icegaze (May 2, 2015)

This is true 
however a good portion of the verse cant find him once he hides in his chameleon 

no elite jounin can kill him while he is hiding bar kimimaro. while the likes of zabuza can equally hide. and track him through the chameleon heart beat. 

however considering finding him is already a mission + his various array of summons he should be in low kage level 

i understand why you would say that though. but finding him while dealing with 7 other summons is no walk in the park


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