# DISCUSSION: NBD threads.



## LostSelf (Dec 25, 2019)

Latest edit: Hey there. After reading everything and talking with FlamingRain and Mshadows, we think the Metadome (or can keep another name) can be a great idea. We also decided to allow the Rate me as a poster threads there as a kind of trial to see how they go. If they fail, in the sense that these are used for negative things, they will be forbidden.

That section can contain everything that's not matchups, but are NBD related like tier lists or discussion about feats and how this affect a character's standing. Many of @Mad Scientist's cool threads can be used as an example, or the some @t0xeus' threads as well.

If there's anything you guys want to add, do it now, because this doesn't only depend on me. I'd bring this thread to the higher ups and talk on behalf of the community along @FlamingRain and @MShadows. 

Doing this outside of the Suggestions and Concerns because not everybody will go there. Can be moved after we've all reached a certain point.

As you guys might've been seeing, some threads that before were allowed, suddenly started being closed. These threads normally were not under the allowed threads under the Battledome Rules, but at first were allowed as it was, in some way, relevant to the NBD. In this case, to the posters inside the section or threads that in some way bred a discussion that could affect/improve the placement of a character.

Of course, these threads became more, and slowly were moving from the initial point and that bred threads of "Rate me as a poster" or "Worse statements made in the battledome" which also lead to many negativity (as well as positivity) and broken rules among the posters.

This thread, to keep it short, is to discuss with all of you which threads to allow, to provide ideas for it as well and keep it on stickies to, from now on, have a clearer view among all of us as to what threads are accepted while we all discuss this. But please, let's try to keep it Battledome related. Some threads you think can be argued in the Battledome Convo should stay there, but let's debate even this.

Not only with me, of course. @MShadows, @Ryuzaki  and @FlamingRain's views are obviously needed (sorry guys for not asking you first. Just felt this was needed to avoid further confusion on this issue.)

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## t0xeus (Dec 25, 2019)

My 2 opinions on this:

1) Have a sub-board on the NBD for meta threads, and allow ALL threads that are at least distantly related to NBD.
There's no harm to this and forbidding meme threads or "rate me threads" because you personally don't like them is unnecessarily strict behavior, it's not like there is gonna be 2000 of those threads for it to pose a real issue.
Like removing threads that the majority of community wants and that are inoffensive just because they are not too relevant is a bitchlike behavior.
Hell, even one of the mods made a "Happy Holidays" thread just yesterday. So obviously even mods think off-topic threads are not a bad idea all the time.

Convo is just not a good space for this as it's just one thread.

2) In the main NBD section, don't lock unbalanced threads.
If the matchup is unbalanced, thread will die quickly on its own.
And if the thread stays alive, it means there is a discussion to be had.
Locking threads that mods deem unbalanced just creates controversy and nobody learns anything from it.


*TL;DR: *
1) create meta subsection and allow all kinds of threads in it unless they are 100% off-topic
2) don't lock threads in NBD if the only reasoning is "unbalanced matchup"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soul (Dec 25, 2019)

Unbalanced match-ups have no actual discussion, not sure why you would want to keep those. The meta subsection idea could be implemented on a trial basis, see how it goes.


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## t0xeus (Dec 25, 2019)

Soul said:


> Unbalanced match-ups have no actual discussion,


If that's true then they will die on its own quick

No need to piss the OP off by not allowing him to hear others out

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## Soul (Dec 25, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> If that's true then they will die on its own quick
> 
> No need to piss the OP off by not allowing him to hear others out



I would rather piss off the OP to let him know (and be clear) it's common knowledge the match-up is unbalanced.

Reactions: Like 1


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## FlamingRain (Dec 25, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> My 2 opinions on this:
> 
> 1) Have a sub-board on the NBD for meta threads, and allow ALL threads that are at least distantly related to NBD.
> There's no harm to this and forbidding meme threads or "rate me threads" because you personally don't like them is unnecessarily strict behavior, it's not like there is gonna be 2000 of those threads for it to pose a real issue.
> ...



Unbalanced threads usually aren’t going to get serious replies for the OP to even hear out, though sometimes they do.

Silnaem is the only reason I didn’t go ahead and lock Ino vs Sasuke, for example.


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## Marvel (Dec 25, 2019)

What about spite or bait threads.You're losing an argument and then make a thread asking people for validation.

Example.

x says Katon > Suiton

y says it's not.

X makes a thread saying ''Is Katon > Suiton?" ''Because apparently people think it's not.'' and then they tag the user too.


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## Marvel (Dec 25, 2019)

We don't need a meta subsection that's what HoU and that other section is for imo. Off topic discussion can go in the convo tha's literally what it's for. Maybe just make it clear to people that they should check the convo's more because I assume people feel they won't get enough attention if they post questions in the convo.

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## FlamingRain (Dec 25, 2019)

Marvel said:


> What about spite or bait threads.You're losing an argument and then make a thread asking people for validation.
> 
> Example.
> 
> ...



I feel like I should start locking these sorts of threads too.

Rhetorical questions can be asked in the debate you're already having if you need to make a point. Creating a new thread and tagging the other person just seems like an attempt to make the other person look bad.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marvel (Dec 25, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> I feel like I should start locking these sorts of threads too.
> 
> Rhetorical questions can be asked in the debate you're already having if you need to make a point. Creating a new thread and tagging the other person just seems like an attempt to make the other person look bad.


Exactly. Kinda like witch hunting too,people will be like ''of course y says that he's dumb.etc''.


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## Sufex (Dec 25, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> I feel like I should start locking these sorts of threads too.
> 
> Rhetorical questions can be asked in the debate you're already having if you need to make a point. Creating a new thread and tagging the other person just seems like an attempt to make the other person look bad.


Especially as there is only a handful of posters vulnerable to such afflictions


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## Cognitios (Dec 25, 2019)

Metabattledome when?

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## Cognitios (Dec 25, 2019)

That’s not a rhetorical question or a joke what are the moderations plans for the solution a sizable amount of nbders have called for. 

@LostSelf @FlamingRain @MShadows

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## Soul (Dec 25, 2019)

Marvel said:


> What about spite or bait threads.You're losing an argument and then make a thread asking people for validation.
> 
> Example.
> 
> ...





FlamingRain said:


> I feel like I should start locking these sorts of threads too.



To my understanding that was against the rules before. Just for the record.


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## Serene Grace (Dec 25, 2019)

Bring back the worst statement thread / thread

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## Mad Scientist (Dec 25, 2019)

Soul said:


> I would rather piss off the OP to let him know (and be clear) it's common knowledge the match-up is unbalanced.


Well, I recently had my Raikage vs Minato thread locked and there was good discussion there. Just because of the majority based opinion of the NBD, which is often wrong at times, it was locked. I gave Raikage full knowledge and then I made threads showing why the Raikage grew in speed and a considerable number of people actually agreed! So there _was_ a discussion to be had there but it was locked for no good reason as far as I can tell.



t0xeus said:


> If that's true then they will die on its own quick
> 
> No need to piss the OP off by not allowing him to hear others out


I agree with this, but I think the bar simply needs to be lowered. Like there's no reason a Raikage vs Minato thread should be locked... However, JJ Madara vs Iruka should of course be locked in due time, but with careful discretion e.g. the mod should read the battle conditions (recently there was a crippled Hashirama vs Iruka thread, which made me think twice).



Marvel said:


> What about spite or bait threads.You're losing an argument and then make a thread asking people for validation.
> 
> Example.
> 
> ...


That's not necessarily spite or bait though. Someone could genuinely want a second opinion, which very often does help elucidate the truth, or to some degree at least.

Spite threads and bait threads are already unacceptable.



Marvel said:


> We don't need a meta subsection that's what HoU and that other section is for imo. Off topic discussion can go in the convo tha's literally what it's for. Maybe just make it clear to people that they should check the convo's more because I assume people feel they won't get enough attention if they post questions in the convo.


Completely disagree with that. Best Statements thread shouldn't be in something like the Convo, nor should threads like rate me as a poster. These threads serve a specific purpose or function - they're not just general chatter like in the convo.

And HoU doesn't even cater for that, AFAIA: "Discuss topics relevant to both anime and manga (remember to spoiler-tag manga stuff) such as fan favorites, pairings, cosplay, general character discussion and so on."



FlamingRain said:


> I feel like I should start locking these sorts of threads too.
> 
> Rhetorical questions can be asked in the debate you're already having if you need to make a point. Creating a new thread and tagging the other person just seems like an attempt to make the other person look bad.


Then the problem really is tagging that other person or referring to them, or, as you put it, making them look bad.

If I made a thread that goes something like: _Hi guys, I'd like a second opinion. X thinks this, but I think this....bla bla... What's correct? Have either of us missed something?_

Then that's nothing but civil and neutral. And sometimes there does need to be discussions. If someone espouses Kisame as a jonin level ninja and is influencing people to think the same, that discussion needs to be had and I don't care whether or not that poster is called out. It's not a case of bait or spite at that point. Even if that person is referred to indirectly, these things should be handled with care. Where a discussion needs to happen, a discussion needs to happen - and no one likes over regulation.



Cognitios said:


> Metabattledome when?


Do you think that the Metadome should be _inside_ the Naruto Battledome or do you think it should be like its own section, like HoU? Or do you think maybe we can just use tags like the New Leaf does?



LostSelf said:


> Doing this outside of the Suggestions and Concerns because not everybody will go there. Can be moved after we've all reached a certain point.
> 
> As you guys might've been seeing, some threads that before were allowed, suddenly started being closed. These threads normally were not under the allowed threads under the Battledome Rules, but at first were allowed as it was, in some way, relevant to the NBD. In this case, to the posters inside the section or threads that in some way bred a discussion that could affect/improve the placement of a character.
> 
> ...


Yeah I think threads like t0x's where he was asking about a specific instance or feat or something shouldn't be locked or moved elsewhere. I've asked about specific feats too to understand better. I'm waiting to hear a response from cognitios about the Metadome concept.

I think at least the following threads should be allowed (non-exhaustive) in the NBD:

X vs Y
Who is the strongest X could beat etc. (these types of threads, if I'm not mistaken, actually aren't allowed as per NBD guidelines, yet they've been allowed for a long time, and people like them, so might as well have them).
X in Y's situation.
Could X do this
How would you make X this
Why X is a thing e.g. troll
X respect thread (e.g. insane feats etc.)
Discussing Z (e.g. portrayal, etc.)
Discussing Y (e.g. jutsu, technique, etc.)
Discussing X (e.g. character, etc.)
Tier lists (characters, stats, etc.)
Reason for this (e.g. an event, etc.) (battle-related)
NBD Tournaments etc.
Challenge threads (e.g. Soul's, Naemlis', DaVizWiz's, JiraiyaFlash's)
Abbreviations
List of battles in the manga
List of X/Y/Z
Etc.

Other thread types, such as...

Requests
Rate me as a poster
Q&A
Best Statements
Abbreviations
Etc.
...should go into the Metadome, which is needed, because the main manga has ended and there's a place for this.

I mean we don't need to necessarily need to be too strict about these threads, but if a mod is to spot a clear place where a thread should transition to, then that's cool.


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## Cognitios (Dec 25, 2019)

@Mad Scientist the metadome would be a subsection of the nbd.

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## Mad Scientist (Dec 25, 2019)

Cognitios said:


> @Mad Scientist the metadome would be a subsection of the nbd.


Sounds good to me. We should at least trial it as t0x mentioned.


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## Soul (Dec 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Well, I recently had my Raikage vs Minato thread locked and there was good discussion there. Just because of the majority based opinion of the NBD, which is often wrong at times, it was locked. I gave Raikage full knowledge and then I made threads showing why the Raikage grew in speed and a considerable number of people actually agreed! So there _was_ a discussion to be had there but it was locked for no good reason as far as I can tell.



Raikage vs Minato isn't unbalanced enough to lock it in my opinion.


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## FlamingRain (Dec 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Then the problem really is tagging that other person or referring to them, or, as you put it, making them look bad.
> 
> If I made a thread that goes something like: _Hi guys, I'd like a second opinion. X thinks this, but I think this....bla bla... What's correct? Have either of us missed something?_
> 
> Then that's nothing but civil and neutral. And sometimes there does need to be discussions. If someone espouses Kisame as a jonin level ninja and is influencing people to think the same, that discussion needs to be had and I don't care whether or not that poster is called out. It's not a case of bait or spite at that point. Even if that person is referred to indirectly, these things should be handled with care. Where a discussion needs to happen, a discussion needs to happen - and no one likes over regulation.



Exceptions exist. _You_ might do that if you made such a thread but that's not what the opening posts tend towards.


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## Cognitios (Dec 25, 2019)

Raikage vs Minato was a high diff fight 20 years before the series ended. With stipulations in raikages favor he wins. People ignore stipulations though, location can make or break a character. A4 could probably stand a high chance at beating him in the ocean.


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## Marvel (Dec 25, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> And HoU doesn't even cater for that, AFAIA: "Discuss topics relevant to both anime and manga (remember to spoiler-tag manga stuff) such as fan favorites, pairings, cosplay, general character discussion and so on."


What post do you even make that you believe would merit the creation of a new section? General stuuf like rating post should go in the convo and everything else can go in the other two sections.


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## Kisame (Dec 25, 2019)

We need a metadome subsection as that helps posters to vent off their off-topic inclinations and the like. I understand the concern about the "worst statement" thread due to the negativity but "rate me" "best generations of posters" or similar threads are fine if they have their own subsection. We are literally one of the busiest sections in the forum and most sections with less activity have several sub sections.

I understand that it's difficult for moderation to seriously consider implementing such things due to the risks it carries (which is why I'm guessing the moderators haven't really addressed this issue directly) so a trial to see how it would do might be a good solution.

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## JayK (Dec 26, 2019)

We need a Meta Battledome for feats and technique discussion and another subsection for off topic talk.

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## Stonaem (Dec 26, 2019)

Whatever MS said

I like the idea of tags.

Reason being the same i didn't put some recent thread in NL: the folks whose attentipn is desired have a habit of not visiting different sections. So a subsection would definitelybwin the cleaning award, but many might not visit it.


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## Zembie (Dec 26, 2019)

Idk what the problem is with creating a metadome. The convo legit sucks and as far as I've seen is just a landfill for shitposting.

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## Tri (Dec 26, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Idk what the problem is with creating a metadome. The convo legit sucks and as far as I've seen is just a landfill for shitposting.


a convo can only be as good as posters make it to be


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## Zembie (Dec 26, 2019)

Tri said:


> a convo can only be as good as posters make it to be


Hey, the posters there aren't bad posters at all, but the convo just seems like a place to shitpost. When t0x posted a screenshot of the convo back in the day it was the same shitposting general (or at least looked like that, I am talking out of my ass after all.)


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## Soul (Dec 26, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Hey, the posters there aren't bad posters at all, but the convo just seems like a place to shitpost. When t0x posted a screenshot of the convo back in the day it was the same shitposting general (or at least looked like that, I am talking out of my ass after all.)



It was a place to talk about our day or new stuff coming out. More like a text group in messenger or Facebook chat than anything else.


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## Marvel (Dec 26, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Hey, the posters there aren't bad posters at all, but the convo just seems like a place to shitpost. When t0x posted a screenshot of the convo back in the day it was the same shitposting general (or at least looked like that, I am talking out of my ass after all.)


You got the link to that post ?


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## Zembie (Dec 26, 2019)

Marvel said:


> You got the link to that post ?


It's in the worst statements thread, and I won't search for it because it's too much work.


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## Zembie (Dec 26, 2019)

Soul said:


> It was a place to talk about our day or new stuff coming out. More like a text group in messenger or Facebook chat than anything else.


Yea, something completely different than what people are offering for the metadome. Admins prob won't dont it cuz moderating a subsection is a lot of work.


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## Tri (Dec 26, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Hey, the posters there aren't bad posters at all, but the convo just seems like a place to shitpost. When t0x posted a screenshot of the convo back in the day it was the same shitposting general (or at least looked like that, I am talking out of my ass after all.)


no one ever actually makes an effort to make the thread a legitimate place for bantz and conversation despite that being the only way the convo is ever going to be a place worth posting in. If y’all want a good convo thread then y’all have to actually use the thread for more than the occasional meme post


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## t0xeus (Dec 26, 2019)

Tri said:


> no one ever actually makes an effort to make the thread a legitimate place for bantz and conversation despite that being the only way the convo is ever going to be a place worth posting in. If y’all want a good convo thread then y’all have to actually use the thread for more than the occasional meme post


People just use private convo groups or discord nowadays for that.


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## Zembie (Dec 26, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> People just use private convo groups or discord nowadays for that.


Exactly, not to mention posts that "should" belong in the metadome don't really belong in the convo.


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## Tri (Dec 26, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> People just use private convo groups or discord nowadays for that.


There’s plenty of popping convo threads on the forum, this community is just not interested in making its own convo any good is my point.


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## Speedyamell (Dec 27, 2019)

A mod locking a thread because they personally feel it is imbalanced just seems rather unnecessary.. In the end, it is all subjective and the thread is being locked based on a mod's opinion on what is and isn't an imbalanced match. And that just isn't enough reason.
I mean you can enter a jiraiya vs itachi match, and despite how much those two characters were compared in the manga, you'll probably still see people argue that Itachi neg diffs with genjutsu or something.. and if there are people with such opinions, does that mean the thread should be locked? Make one of those people mods and because of their personal opinion might lock down an otherwise balanced thread just because *they* feel it's imalanced. When it infact really isn't.

The thread that facilitated this thread, I.e The* "sm jiraiya & yamato vs hashirama thread"*, is seen as unbalanced. And yet arguments can be made for it not being a stomp.. (Which I assume makes a thread considered imbalanced?)
In the end Hashirama is still susceptible to frog song/frog call. Sm amped yomi numa can probably slow even shinsusenju down, and jiraiya can bring forth an army of toads to help him in the fight.. Add on that yamato can also potentially make his own mini buddha to support jiraiya, And this is an actual battle and _nowhere near_ being a stomp.
I mean what even defines an imbalanced matchup? Is it really when it's considered a stomp? As I've done here an argument can be made for that not being the case.
and even in threads you wouldn't think to lock, people still claim one character stomps one way or the other like in the example I already gave.
Even if the general consensus favors one character over the other, is that still enough to make it lock worthy?? Create a thread between  EMS sasuke and sakura and 99% say sasuke wins with some even saying he does it with neg diff or low diff despite the argument that they were literally portrayed as peers. But with that being  the case, consensus shouldn't determine that a matchup is imbalanced either especially if there are proper arguments that can still be made for the opposing party.

Another occasion that lead to this was when I think @FlamingRain claimed he would have locked a WA sakura and WA tsunade vs hashirama thread if special scenarios that limited hashirama heavily weren't added. Which is again not necessary and openly arguable.
I mean, sakura was compared to EMS sasuke & full Kcm naruto, and a match between any of those two against hashirama wouldn't be locked.. Even though there are feats and many manga implications that point at sakura being their peer
And yet a sakura *and* tsunade vs hashirama is a thread that should be locked?? A quick reminder that these two can literally pull out 10% Katsuyu which potentially exceeds even shinsusenju in size??

I'm not calling FlamingRain or any mods bias or anything. I'm just pointing out that in the end, everything is subjective to personal opinion and it's not fair to lock threads based on your own personal views. Not when it's not like it's impossible to make an argument for the opposing party/parties..
It just seems unnecessary to me in the end.. and at the very least even if a thread might actually be imbalanced it could make for giving everyone a good laugh which is not a bad thing and is sth that is needed once in a while.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Dec 27, 2019)

I agree. Jman feats Vs Urashiki should be more than enough to deal with Hashi... U_U

Altho, on that sense, it should be locked, since Hashirama will get stomped then... 

I guess I think the mod closed it for the wrong "reason" so to say? 
instead of locking it because he thinks Hashi stomps, he should have locked it cuz Jman stomps...


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## FlamingRain (Dec 27, 2019)

It’s not hard to tell when a thread is made to spite and spite threads are more likely to become magnets for trolling and building resentment than they are to become breeding grounds for honest discussion.

There are already two threads for concerns like this so I’m moving this post to the most active one at the moment.

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## t0xeus (Dec 27, 2019)

Mods locking threads like  is a problem.


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## Sufex (Dec 27, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Mods locking threads like  is a problem.


Locking spite threads sounds good to me.


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## Bonly (Dec 27, 2019)

I agree with speedy about locking threads. I remember a few months ago there was a Base Jiraiya vs Base Gai thread and Lostself went into the thread and posted that it was unbalanced and he locked that bitch up with the quickness, on the same day a Kabuto(no Edo) vs unrestricted Hashi-Motherfucking-rama thread was made and he let it live and posted in said thread to say "hey this is unbalanced so you should change the conditions so I don't lock it" or something along that nature. Like what lol. 

Then we have the Itachi vs Pain that got locked because it's "unbalanced" yet the Yamawho vs Kisame is left open and isn't unbalanced?  Like what lol. At this point if people wanna talk about it then you might as well let it be because I'm sure there's almost always at least one person open minded to think there's a discussion to be had, Mods just gotta do their jobs and delete off topic/ baiting and flaming post when they go into said thread if they pop up

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## t0xeus (Dec 27, 2019)

Sufex said:


> Locking spite threads sounds good to me.


I don't see where's spite in that.

People said Itachi is on their level so Shazam made a thread to discuss it.

No hate or bad feelings in that.


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## Sufex (Dec 27, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> I don't see where's spite in that.
> 
> People said Itachi is on their level so Shazam made a thread to discuss it.
> 
> *No hate or bad feelings in that*.



Hard optimistic, he made a thread comparing something, saw a minority of users saying itachi > pain or something, got triggered and made a thread to bait the posters out. its part of his MO. Threads like that should be locked because all it does is encourage flaming/trolling. There are people willing to debate itachi vs Kaguya because of totsuka, should we have multiple threads on this too?


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## Shazam (Dec 27, 2019)

Soul said:


> Unbalanced match-ups have no actual discussion, .



Of course they do or people would never post on them
.... yet they do.

What is unbalanced to you may not be unbalanced to another anyways


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## Mad Scientist (Dec 27, 2019)

Speedyamell said:


> A mod locking a thread because they personally feel it is imbalanced just seems rather unnecessary.. In the end, it is all subjective and the thread is being locked based on a mod's opinion on what is and isn't an imbalanced match. And that just isn't enough reason.
> I mean you can enter a jiraiya vs itachi match, and despite how much those two characters were compared in the manga, you'll probably still see people argue that Itachi neg diffs with genjutsu or something.. and if there are people with such opinions, does that mean the thread should be locked? Make one of those people mods and because of their personal opinion might lock down an otherwise balanced thread just because *they* feel it's imalanced. When it infact really isn't.


I agree with you in essence, but the fact is we have moderators _because_ we trust their judgements. Some threads _should_ be locked as there is no discussion to be had, however, a major consideration in the current NBD is that the manga has ended a while ago, thus, moderators ought to be _much_ more lenient towards "stomp" or "overly discussed" threads. What moderators haven't recognised is that new minds provoke new types of thinking and propose new arguments. Whenever I make serious battle threads, I always give useful information, whether that's just battle conditions or extra notes. I put in some cool images/media too. So, I was wholly surprised when the likes of _my_ thread got locked because of the NBD's (often times, not always) trash-tier consensus of posters who are stuck in over their heads and unwilling to see if there are even any new ideas. It was not even a stomp thread. They just thought "oh this battle has already been done" even though it hasn't.

Damn it, *Gai *was faster than Ay when Ay declared himself the fastest. Ay grew much over the 15+ years and I had outright proof showing that Ay got bulkier and gained more chakra etc.



Speedyamell said:


> The thread that facilitated this thread, I.e The* "sm jiraiya & yamato vs hashirama thread"*, is seen as unbalanced. And yet arguments can be made for it not being a stomp.. (Which I assume makes a thread considered imbalanced?)
> In the end Hashirama is still susceptible to frog song/frog call. Sm amped yomi numa can probably slow even shinsusenju down, and jiraiya can bring forth an army of toads to help him in the fight.. Add on that yamato can also potentially make his own mini buddha to support jiraiya, And this is an actual battle and _nowhere near_ being a stomp.


Ok, I agree with you that the thread shouldn't have been locked, but I disagree that this match up isn't a stomp overall.



Speedyamell said:


> I mean what even defines an imbalanced matchup? Is it really when it's considered a stomp? As I've done here an argument can be made for that not being the case.
> and even in threads you wouldn't think to lock, people still claim one character stomps one way or the other like in the example I already gave.
> Even if the general consensus favors one character over the other, is that still enough to make it lock worthy?? Create a thread between EMS sasuke and sakura and 99% say sasuke wins with some even saying he does it with neg diff or low diff despite the argument that they were literally portrayed as peers. But with that being the case, consensus shouldn't determine that a matchup is imbalanced either especially if there are proper arguments that can still be made for the opposing party.


This is a good consideration. Why should the NBD's (often times, not always) trash-tier consensus warrant a thread lockdown? It's equivalent to groupthink: Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.



Speedyamell said:


> Another occasion that lead to this was when I think @FlamingRain claimed he would have locked a WA sakura and WA tsunade vs hashirama thread if special scenarios that limited hashirama heavily weren't added. Which is again not necessary and openly arguable.
> I mean, sakura was compared to EMS sasuke & full Kcm naruto, and a match between any of those two against hashirama wouldn't be locked.. Even though there are feats and many manga implications that point at sakura being their peer
> And yet a sakura *and* tsunade vs hashirama is a thread that should be locked?? A quick reminder that these two can literally pull out 10% Katsuyu which potentially exceeds even shinsusenju in size??


I agree in principle. Why not allow a discussion to be had at least? It will die off anyway. If people harbour memories of resentment _against_ posters in that thread, that's on them, for not accepting that others are in a growth stage.



Speedyamell said:


> I'm not calling FlamingRain or any mods bias or anything. I'm just pointing out that in the end, everything is subjective to personal opinion and it's not fair to lock threads based on your own personal views. Not when it's not like it's impossible to make an argument for the opposing party/parties..
> It just seems unnecessary to me in the end.. and at the very least even if a thread might actually be imbalanced it could make for giving everyone a good laugh which is not a bad thing and is sth that is needed once in a while.


I agree.



t0xeus said:


> Mods locking threads like  is a problem.





Sufex said:


> Hard optimistic, he made a thread comparing something, saw a minority of users saying itachi > pain or something, got triggered and made a thread to bait the posters out. its part of his MO. Threads like that should be locked because all it does is encourage flaming/trolling. There are people willing to debate itachi vs Kaguya because of totsuka, should we have multiple threads on this too?


I agree with Sufex that it should have been locked due to spiting (whether intentional or not), but I also agree with t0x that the decision to close it just because the thread was done over and over warrants it being locked was a bad one. Perhaps in this day and age though, posters should try to be more forceful in showcasing a new spin or twist on the match up, though that's not necessarily necessary I guess.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Speedyamell (Dec 27, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Of course they do or people would never post on them
> .... yet they do.
> 
> What is unbalanced to you may not be unbalanced to another anyways


Exactly my point. It's all subjective to personal opinion in the end.


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## Shazam (Dec 27, 2019)

Speedyamell said:


> Exactly my point. It's all subjective to personal opinion in the end.



Yeah I'm not into Mods who try to stifle conversation and try to be the end all be all of threads based on THEIR personal views.

@MShadows @FlamingRain
@LostSelf

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (Dec 27, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> I feel like I should start locking these sorts of threads too.
> 
> Rhetorical questions can be asked in the debate you're already having if you need to make a point. Creating a new thread and tagging the other person just seems like an attempt to make the other person look bad.





FlamingRain said:


> It’s not hard to tell when a thread is made to spite and spite threads are more likely to become magnets for trolling and building resentment than they are to become breeding grounds for honest discussion.
> 
> There are already two threads for concerns like this so I’m moving this post to the most active one at the moment.



While I agree that removing or locking spite threads is best for the board the issue comes with how to we determine what a "spite" thread is?

I've always said a thread cannot be spite if enough people believe in the "spited" outcome. 

I suppose the question is what criteria do we use to determine spite?


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## FlamingRain (Dec 27, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> While I agree that removing or locking spite threads is best for the board the issue comes with how to we determine what a "spite" thread is?
> 
> I've always said a thread cannot be spite if enough people believe in the "spited" outcome.
> 
> I suppose the question is what criteria do we use to determine spite?



Anybody with ideas on that is always free to bring them forward.

I mean not every thread with what a mod feels like is an easy answer gets locked, but you’re going to have a hard time drawing out people who would say a Sannin plus one ally are enough to so much as push Hashirama and that’s usually _why_ those threads are even made.

There are even times when the person the thread was made in response to didn’t even voice the opposite opinion, but the fact that one or two people might believe otherwise about a match shouldn’t be the only thing the decision to leave it open is up to unless Itachi vs Kaguya threads are fine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (Dec 27, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> Anybody with ideas on that is always free to bring them forward.
> 
> I mean not every thread with what a mod feels like is an easy answer gets locked, but you’re going to have a hard time drawing out people who would say a Sannin plus one ally are enough to so much as push Hashirama and that’s usually _why_ those threads are even made.
> 
> There are even times when the person the thread was made in response to didn’t even voice the opposite opinion, but the fact that one or two people might believe otherwise about a match shouldn’t be the only thing the decision to leave it open is up to unless Itachi vs Kaguya threads are fine.



That steal takes away from discussion. Now and forever those few people will always believe what they believe because we cant even talk about it. 

If their reason is good enough for them to genuinely feel a certain way, others should have a chance to explain why it is wrong without a Mod flexing his superior permissible privileges closing a thread. It's not like those threads ever hurt anybody anyways. What are you protecting?

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (Dec 27, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> Anybody with ideas on that is always free to bring them forward.
> 
> I mean not every thread with what a mod feels like is an easy answer gets locked, but you’re going to have a hard time drawing out people who would say a Sannin plus one ally are enough to so much as push Hashirama and that’s usually _why_ those threads are even made.
> 
> There are even times when the person the thread was made in response to didn’t even voice the opposite opinion, but the fact that one or two people might believe otherwise about a match shouldn’t be the only thing the decision to leave it open is up to unless Itachi vs Kaguya threads are fine.




Ok so......what makes a spite thread?

How is it determined if a thread should be locked due to spite? I ask because there is going to inevitably be a hazy area where VS topics may appear as spite yet have a large subsection of posters support the spite results.

(not asking about obvious shitposting threads this is about character VS)


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## FlamingRain (Dec 27, 2019)

Shazam said:


> That steal takes away from discussion. Now and forever those few people will always believe what they believe because we cant even talk about it.
> 
> If their reason is good enough for them to genuinely feel a certain way, others should have a chance to explain why it is wrong without a Mod flexing his superior permissible privileges closing a thread. It's not like those threads ever hurt anybody anyways. What are you protecting?



Like I said told t0x earlier unbalanced threads usually aren't even going to draw serious replies for those people to listen to. If you think they're going to listen you're generally better off keeping it in the thread where they originally brought it up instead of making a new one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Speedyamell (Dec 27, 2019)

Shazam said:


> That steal takes away from discussion. Now and forever those few people will always believe what they believe because we cant even talk about it.
> 
> If their reason is good enough for them to genuinely feel a certain way, others should have a chance to explain why it is wrong without a Mod flexing his superior permissible privileges closing a thread. It's not like those threads ever hurt anybody anyways. What are you protecting?


Agreed


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## Shazam (Dec 27, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> Like I said told t0x earlier unbalanced threads usually aren't even going to draw serious replies for those people to listen to. If you think they're going to listen you're generally better off keeping it in the thread where they originally brought it up instead of making a new one.



Ok


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## FlamingRain (Dec 27, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> Ok so......what makes a spite thread?
> 
> How is it determined if a thread should be locked due to spite? I ask because there is going to inevitably be a hazy area where VS topics may appear as spite yet have a large subsection of posters support the spite results.
> 
> (not asking about obvious shitposting threads this is about character VS)



Intent. What could possibly be entertained as honest interpretation. So, the poster and whether or not the outcome is self-evident will still have to be considered. Again if anyone has other criteria to propose this is the best place to do it.

If there's a large subsection of posters supporting the "spite" results then it probably isn't coming off as spite to begin with.


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## Shazam (Dec 27, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> Intent. What could possibly be entertained as honest interpretation. So, the poster and whether or not the outcome is self-evident will still have to be considered. Again if anyone has other criteria to propose this is the best place to do it.
> 
> If there's a large subsection of posters supporting the "spite" results then it probably isn't coming off as spite to begin with.



What happens if you dont lock any of them?


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## ShinAkuma (Dec 27, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> Intent. What could possibly be entertained as honest interpretation. So, the poster and whether or not the outcome is self-evident will still have to be considered. Again if anyone has other criteria to propose this is the best place to do it.



I actually don't know, which is why I'm asking. It's a tough position to make that determination.

Intent via posting history is probably the best solution?



> If there's a large subsection of posters supporting the "spite" results then it probably isn't coming off as spite to begin with.



There's the rub. There are certain VS matches that are labeled as spite but have a large enough group supporting it. If the support of a significant amount of posters disqualify it as spite then that is fair.

Reactions: Like 1


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## FlamingRain (Dec 27, 2019)

Shazam said:


> What happens if you dont lock any of them?



A mess of a battledome for reasons already mentioned. They are more likely to become magnets for trolling and building resentment than they are to become breeding grounds for honest discussion. Leave all of them alone and eventually the place will spiral as far out of hand as it can. I'm not going to check every post in each thread to handle that, I'm just going to close the thread.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Soul (Dec 27, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Of course they do or people would never post on them
> .... yet they do.
> 
> What is unbalanced to you may not be unbalanced to another anyways



They post non-constructive stuff.
And by unbalanced I mean something obvious to most, obviously.


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## Speedyamell (Dec 27, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> Anybody with ideas on that is always free to bring them forward.
> 
> I mean not every thread with what a mod feels like is an easy answer gets locked, but you’re going to have a hard time drawing out people who would say a Sannin plus one ally are enough to so much as push Hashirama and that’s usually _why_ those threads are even made.
> 
> There are even times when the person the thread was made in response to didn’t even voice the opposite opinion, but the fact that one or two people might believe otherwise about a match shouldn’t be the only thing the decision to leave it open is up to unless Itachi vs Kaguya threads are fine.


I'm assuming you're referring to the thread I was talking about..
You can't just say a sannin and an ally..
who said "ally" is does matter. You can't just claim tsunade and an "ally" vs hashirama is unbalanced without actually putting a name to said ally for clarity
In the case of the thread I spoke off the ally was WA sakura. and as expected with sakura, not many would argue in her favour, 
But WA sakura is canonically compared to EMS sasuke and full kcm naruto. There are canon sources that can be brought up to defend said point. And the multiple threads made of either of those two against the founders were never locked.
Yet a thread of sakura and tsunade vs hashirama will get locked? despite the fact that as argument, tsunade and sakura together can bring forth 10% Katsuyu which will definitely be a challenge to even hashirama's shinsusenju..

All I'm doing here is showing that an argument could be made. And even if that's not the case locking the thread still remains unnecessary and the thread allows for the people with the extreme beliefs to be corrected.
Even if no one is arguing the thread could make for good laughs and would eventually die on it's own with no harm being done in the end.
Even an itachi vs kaguya thread doesn't need to be locked and is honestly very different from a thread of hashirama vs sakura and tsunade.


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## t0xeus (Dec 27, 2019)

Speedyamell said:


> I'm assuming you're referring to the thread I was talking about..
> You can't just say a sannin and an ally..
> who said "ally" is does matter. You can't just claim tsunade and an "ally" vs hashirama is unbalanced without actually putting a name to said ally for clarity
> In the case of the thread I spoke off the ally was WA sakura. and as expected with sakura, not many would argue in her favour,
> ...


Don't forget to mention how threads of WA Sakura vs random jonins stays open, while WA Sakura vs Demi Gods gets closed, despite the latter being closer to the league canon Sakura operates at


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## Shazam (Dec 27, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Don't forget to mention how threads of WA Sakura vs random jonins stays open, while WA Sakura vs Demi Gods gets closed, despite the latter being closer to the league canon Sakura operates at



@FlamingRain


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## Speedyamell (Dec 27, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Don't forget to mention how threads of WA Sakura vs random jonins stays open, while WA Sakura vs Demi Gods gets closed, despite the latter being closer to the league canon Sakura operates at


Yeah. There was a WA sakura vs asuma and WA sakura vs yamato thread.. no one thought those ones were imbalanced

Reactions: Like 1


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## FlamingRain (Dec 27, 2019)

Speedyamell said:


> I'm assuming you're referring to the thread I was talking about.



I'm using the threads (plural) you referenced as examples but not talking only about them. That's why I was as vague as "Sannin and an ally" instead of saying which Sannin and which ally.



> And even if that's not the case locking the thread still remains unnecessary and the thread allows for the people with the extreme beliefs to be corrected.
> Even if no one is arguing the thread could make for good laughs and would eventually die on it's own with no harm being done in the end.
> Even an itachi vs kaguya thread doesn't need to be locked and is honestly very different from a thread of hashirama vs sakura and tsunade.



_-"They are more likely to become magnets for trolling and building resentment than they are to become breeding grounds for honest discussion. Leave all of them alone and eventually the place will spiral as far out of hand as it can. I'm not going to check every post in each thread to handle that, I'm just going to close the thread."

-"Like I said told t0x earlier unbalanced threads usually aren't even going to draw serious replies for those people to listen to. If you think they're going to listen you're generally better off keeping it in the thread where they originally brought it up instead of making a new one."_

_"Make for good laughs"_  is possible but still wishful thinking.



t0xeus said:


> Don't forget to mention how threads of WA Sakura vs random jonins stays open,





Speedyamell said:


> Yeah. There was a WA sakura vs asuma and WA sakura vs yamato thread.. *no one thought those ones were imbalanced*



Then this would go back to _"if there's a large subsection of posters supporting the "spite" results then it probably isn't coming off as spite to begin with."_

Reactions: Like 1


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## LostSelf (Dec 27, 2019)

Hey there. After reading everything and talking with FlamingRain and Mshadows, we think the Metadome (or can keep another name) can be a great idea. We also decided to allow the Rate me as a poster threads there as a kind of trial to see how they go. If they fail, in the sense that these are used for negative things, they will be forbidden.

That section can contain everything that's not matchups, but are NBD related like tier lists or discussion about feats and how this affect a character's standing. Many of @Mad Scientist's cool threads can be used as an example, or some @t0xeus' threads as well.

If there's anything you guys want to add, do it now, because this doesn't only depend on me. I'd bring this thread to the higher ups and talk on behalf of the community along @FlamingRain and @MShadows.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shazam (Dec 27, 2019)

LostSelf said:


> Hey there. After reading everything and talking with FlamingRain and Mshadows, we think the Metadome (or can keep another name) can be a great idea. We also decided to allow the Rate me as a poster threads there as a kind of trial to see how they go. If they fail, in the sense that these are used for negative things, they will be forbidden.
> 
> That section can contain everything that's not matchups, but are NBD related like tier lists or discussion about feats and how this affect a character's standing. Many of @Mad Scientist's cool threads can be used as an example, or the some @t0xeus' threads as well.
> 
> If there's anything you guys want to add, do it now, because this doesn't only depend on me. I'd bring this thread to the higher ups and talk on behalf of the community along @FlamingRain and @MShadows.



Me and 3 dupes agree and thank you

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marvel (Dec 27, 2019)

LostSelf said:


> Hey there. After reading everything and talking with FlamingRain and Mshadows, we think the Metadome (or can keep another name) can be a great idea. We also decided to allow the Rate me as a poster threads there as a kind of trial to see how they go. If they fail, in the sense that these are used for negative things, they will be forbidden.
> 
> That section can contain everything that's not matchups, but are NBD related like tier lists or discussion about feats and how this affect a character's standing. Many of @Mad Scientist's cool threads can be used as an example, or some @t0xeus' threads as well.
> 
> If there's anything you guys want to add, do it now, because this doesn't only depend on me. I'd bring this thread to the higher ups and talk on behalf of the community along @FlamingRain and @MShadows.


Will there be separate mods for the Meta Battledome?


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## LostSelf (Dec 27, 2019)

Marvel said:


> Will there be separate mods for the Meta Battledome?



No.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marvel (Dec 27, 2019)

LostSelf said:


> No.


Can you guys check some of the newer posters to make sure they are not dupes?


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## ~Kakashi~ (Dec 27, 2019)

Marvel said:


> Can you guys check some of the newer posters to make sure they are not dupes?



Why would they do such a thing? This place relies on dupes for a good 50% of it's activity.

Shazam himself is responsible for like 20% of the section's posts over the last year or two I bet.


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## Zembie (Dec 27, 2019)

~Kakashi~ said:


> Why would they do such a thing? This place relies on dupes for a good 50% of it's activity.
> 
> Shazam himself is responsible for like 20% of the section's posts over the last year or two I bet.


That's cuz Shazam was meme'd to death.


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## Zembie (Dec 27, 2019)

LostSelf said:


> Hey there. After reading everything and talking with FlamingRain and Mshadows, we think the Metadome (or can keep another name) can be a great idea. We also decided to allow the Rate me as a poster threads there as a kind of trial to see how they go. If they fail, in the sense that these are used for negative things, they will be forbidden.
> 
> That section can contain everything that's not matchups, but are NBD related like tier lists or discussion about feats and how this affect a character's standing. Many of @Mad Scientist's cool threads can be used as an example, or some @t0xeus' threads as well.
> 
> If there's anything you guys want to add, do it now, because this doesn't only depend on me. I'd bring this thread to the higher ups and talk on behalf of the community along @FlamingRain and @MShadows.


As long as the mods don't get overwhelmed I'm happy that the idea can come to fruition.


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## MShadows (Dec 27, 2019)

The worst/best statements threads will have to go though


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## Marvel (Dec 27, 2019)

MShadows said:


> The worst/best statements threads will have to go though


What about funniest?


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## t0xeus (Dec 28, 2019)

LostSelf said:


> Many of @Mad Scientist's cool threads can be used as an example, or some @t0xeus' threads as well


Just say many of t0xeus and MS's cool threads.

No reason to leave the "cool" part out when you talk about my threads.


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## Speedyamell (Dec 28, 2019)

FlamingRain said:


> Then this would go back to _"if there's a large subsection of posters supporting the "spite" results then it probably isn't coming off as spite to begin with."_


Exactly. furthering the notion that whether a thread is imbalanced or not shouldn't really be based on consensus

I've pretty much said all I wanted to though.. So it's fine


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## LostSelf (Dec 28, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Just say many of t0xeus and MS's cool threads.
> 
> No reason to leave the "cool" part out when you talk about my threads.



I didn't mean it that way. It was more like "Many MS's cool threads" but then thinking while typing like "Hey, t0x's threads were also cool." so I also mentioned them.

Basically I tried to say both make cool threads, despite how much I'd agree or disagree with them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marvel (Jan 6, 2020)

What year are we getting the subsection?


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## JayK (Jan 6, 2020)

Marvel said:


> What year are we getting the subsection?


2050

Our children will remember the nobel sacrifices we made.

At least we're getting pointless shit like MotM back which add 0 to the shitpost experience.


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## Marvel (Jan 6, 2020)

JayK said:


> 2050
> 
> Our children will remember the nobel sacrifices we made.
> 
> At least we're getting pointless shit like MotM back which add 0 to the shitpost experience.


It's not even member of the month,it's nicest of the month.

The ''nicest'' posters get nominated. It's not even about who debates well anymore or who presents consistent solid arguments.


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## MShadows (Jan 7, 2020)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Soul (Jan 7, 2020)

Marvel said:


> It's not even member of the month,it's nicest of the month.
> 
> The ''nicest'' posters get nominated. It's not even about who debates well anymore or who presents consistent solid arguments.



Being a nice person is half the battle to being a good poster. Anyone can post info about the manga, we all know it at this point. Not being nice hurting your chances to win the member of the month makes perfect sense to me.

Reactions: Like 2


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## JayK (Jan 13, 2020)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I am waiting boys.


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## Troyse22 (Jan 22, 2020)

Or..
Hear me out

We COULD

Just allow those types of posts in the NBD 

Wild theory and clearly way outside the box here

Reactions: Like 1


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## jesusus (Jan 22, 2020)

Just let the threads be. Only remove them if they don't pertain to battles or NBD related discussion


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## Sufex (Jan 25, 2020)

Mods...
Pls it has been a month


I am dying of thirst, not sure...how...long... i can go on..




*Passes out*


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## J★J♥ (Jan 27, 2020)

Fuck crew threads are the best threads. @DaVizWiz

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Feb 6, 2020)

Another day, another example of mods abusing their thread-locking priviliges.


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## Sufex (Feb 6, 2020)

Dear diary, entry 50. Day 500....


No meta subsecton to be seen 


Hope is starting to be lost.


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## trocollo (Feb 6, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Dear diary, entry 50. Day 500....
> 
> 
> No meta subsecton to be seen
> ...


What if the normal section is becoming the meta subsection?
Like if I remember correctly before the mods were changed threads like "ask my opinions" or "x takes a gauntlet" or everything that wasn't really a pure vs battle was closed


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## Zembie (Feb 6, 2020)

trocollo said:


> What if the normal section is becoming the meta subsection?
> Like if I remember correctly before the mods were changed threads like "ask my opinions" or "x takes a gauntlet" or everything that wasn't really a pure vs battle was closed


*x takes a gauntlet was always allowed as it is BD related.* Q&A threads were removed because people were usually asking questions that weren't NBD related, rate me as a poster was banned for the same reason as well. I guess the Q&A threads are allowed rn is because everything in them is related to the battledome.


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## trocollo (Feb 6, 2020)

Zembie said:


> *x takes a gauntlet was always allowed as it is BD related.* Q&A threads were removed because people were usually asking questions that weren't NBD related, rate me as a poster was banned for the same reason as well. I guess the Q&A threads are allowed rn is because everything in them is related to the battledome.


I see, thanks


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## Hayumi (Feb 11, 2020)

Meta Dome where you at??
I need this subsection. WE need it.


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## J★J♥ (Feb 11, 2020)

Fuck metadome memedome is where its at


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## t0xeus (Feb 18, 2020)

thread's almost 3 months old now


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## Sufex (Feb 18, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> thread's almost 3 months old now


I've already given up. Not even amy communication on whats going om whatsoever.


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## Serene Grace (Feb 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> I've already given up. Not even amy communication on whats going om whatsoever.


NBD: Mods we want a metabattledome section, how long will it take to be made

Mods: Yes


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## LostSelf (Feb 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Hope is starting to be lost.



Don't lose it.

Meanwhile, I am not closing threads that are metadome related on the forums. Feel free to go at it but never lose hope!


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## ShinAkuma (Feb 20, 2020)

trocollo said:


> What if the normal section is becoming the meta subsection?



Truly meta.



J★J♥ said:


> Fuck metadome memedome is where its at



This guy knows what's up!



@LostSelf Give us THE MEMEDOME!


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## Mad Scientist (Mar 22, 2020)

Why the hell was my  locked when shit posts like  and  that did not even add anything to the discussion and violate the NBD guidelines, posts that I've since reported, haven't even been dealt with? Thread probably would have fizzled out anyway at the rate it was going... 

You know, I still want to respond to some actual posts on there...


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## t0xeus (Mar 22, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Why the hell was my  locked when shit posts like  and  that did not even add anything to the discussion and violate the NBD guidelines, posts that I've since reported, haven't even been dealt with? Thread probably would have fizzled out anyway at the rate it was going...
> 
> You know, I still want to respond to some actual posts on there...


Mods are just very biased, unfortunately you won't get any justice in NBD about this.

Their thought process behind locking threads is just simple "do I think it's balanced?" if no, they lock it, if yes or if it's unbalanced thread one of their own that made the thread, they leave it open.


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## ~Kakashi~ (Mar 22, 2020)

It's locked because it's an obviously stupidly unbalanced matchup and would probably qualify as a spite thread if someone other than you, MS, made it. 

Not everything needs to be turned in to some conspiracy, especially when the answer is pretty damn obvious.


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## Mad Scientist (Mar 22, 2020)

~Kakashi~ said:


> It's locked because it's an obviously stupidly unbalanced matchup and would probably qualify as a spite thread if someone other than you, MS, made it.
> 
> Not everything needs to be turned in to some conspiracy, especially when the answer is pretty damn obvious.


Not a conspiracy dude. I don't think it's unbalanced. Yeah maybe most people think Madara wins but in the same way that most people thought Raikiri didn't do a thing to V2 6 Tails, they were wrong. Most people also thought Minato wins against a faster Ay with full knowledge - definitely wrong too. Many used to think WA Sakura isn't impressive, or that 7G Gai wasn't anymore impressive compared to SM Edo Minato. Both wrong again. NBD has a lot of wrong opinions that the majority of people believe. I've said this in the past and I'll damn well say it again. Just because the consensus is one thing doesn't mean it's actually correct.

Why am I _not_ allowed to have a discussion and convince people that it's not so one-sided? Especially when this manga ended in, what, 2015? Moreover, it's not as if this particular matchup has had much discussion, unlike Itachi vs Jiraiya or whatever.



~Kakashi~ said:


> probably qualify as a spite thread if someone other than you, MS, made it.


That doesn't make sense either. If there's no spite, it doesn't matter who created it. The decision to see something as a spite thread should be as objective as possible.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Kakashi~ (Mar 22, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Not a conspiracy dude. I don't think it's unbalanced. Yeah maybe most people think Madara wins but in the same way that most people thought Raikiri didn't do a thing to V2 6 Tails, they were wrong. Most people also thought Minato wins against a faster Ay with full knowledge - definitely wrong too. Many used to think WA Sakura isn't impressive, or that 7G Gai wasn't anymore impressive compared to SM Edo Minato. Both wrong again. NBD has a lot of wrong opinions that the majority of people believe. I've said this in the past and I'll damn well say it again. Just because the consensus is one thing doesn't mean it's actually correct.
> 
> Why am I _not_ allowed to have a discussion and convince people that it's not so one-sided? Especially when this manga ended in, what, 2015? Moreover, it's not as if this particular matchup has had much discussion, unlike Itachi vs Jiraiya or whatever.
> 
> ...



If you read the manga and think WA Kakashi has any business in a fight with VoTE Madara, the problem is with you, not with anyone else, and it's honestly just that simple.


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## Mad Scientist (Mar 22, 2020)

~Kakashi~ said:


> If you read the manga and think WA Kakashi has any business in a fight with VoTE Madara, the problem is with you, not with anyone else, and it's honestly just that simple.


Yeah maybe if my thread wasn't locked I would be happy to debate that.

You also realise I can basically say the exact same thing to you?


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## ~Kakashi~ (Mar 22, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Yeah maybe if my thread wasn't locked I would be happy to debate that.
> 
> You also realise I can basically say the exact same thing to you?



Your thread is locked because there's nothing to discuss. It's been a rule as long as this section has been around(to my knowledge, anyway) that unbalanced threads get locked.

And you could, but you would be wrong.


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## Mad Scientist (Mar 22, 2020)

~Kakashi~ said:


> Your thread is locked because there's nothing to discuss. It's been a rule as long as this section has been around(to my knowledge, anyway)


Yeah and I disagree. I've also said in the past that mods should be more lenient with threads _they think_ are unbalanced. I don't understand why that's so much to ask for in the year 2020. 



~Kakashi~ said:


> And you could, but you would be wrong


And if you say I'm wrong for throwing that argument back on you, you'd be wrong. At this point, we can both call each other wrong, but it would be void of substance or reasoning - I'm not willing to debate you on this if you're this unopen to the concept of a 100% Late-WA Kakashi *at least* putting up *a bit of a fight* against VOTE Madara. More so since my thread was closed without me even having any say...


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## MShadows (Mar 22, 2020)

After quite a long time, the NBD Meta-Battledome is now open!

Starting today, all character/jutsu analysis discussions etc will be done there, leaving the main NBD section for match-up threads only! 

Please respect these rules and enjoy the latest expansion to the community!

Reactions: Like 1


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