# Yonkou vs Admirals Debate Final



## Shanks (Dec 9, 2022)

Are you ready for a conclusion in the decade long debate before this arc ends?  

Will a Yonkou FM once again hold off Kizaru i.e Yonkou > Admiral?  

Or your agenda piece wants Kizaru to 1-shot Lucci and take over the fight with Nika going all out i.e Admirals = Yonkou?  

Or you prefer Kizaru, Lucci, and Baby Hawk vs. Luffy? I.e KOL level of wanking

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 9, 2022)

The only people who think it hasn't concluded are admiral fans.

GB vs Shanks, and Shanks vs Kizaru and Fujitora in the movie, buried the fantasy completely.

Reactions: Like 14 | Agree 1 | Winner 6 | Optimistic 1


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## GrizzlyClaws (Dec 9, 2022)

I have seen a few people theorize Kizaru will be confronted and stalled on the shores by Zoro. If that actually happens, it would be the 4th time Kizaru gets paired up against a FM and it would burry any semblance of equality between Yonkos and Admirals.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1 | Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Dec 9, 2022)

GrizzlyClaws said:


> I have seen a few people theorize Kizaru will be confronted and stalled on the shores by Zoro. If that actually happens, it would be the *4th time Kizaru gets paired up against a FM and it would burry any semblance of equality between Yonkos and Admirals.*





Seraphoenix said:


> The only people who think it hasn't concluded are admiral fans.
> 
> *GB vs Shanks, and Shanks vs Kizaru and Fujitora in the movie, buried the fantasy completely.*

Reactions: Funny 7 | Disagree 1


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## Amol (Dec 9, 2022)

Well IF Oda actually bothers to write Kizaru having fight with either Luffy or Zoro or Sanji we will know the result of this debate.

Unfortunately I don't think we are getting anything more than random clashes that doesn't mean anything.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Dark Knight (Dec 9, 2022)

I thought Shanks finally killed this stupid debate after his wifi haki feat against Greenbull?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## TheTwelfthKenpachi (Dec 9, 2022)

I tend to say I'm an Admiral fan, but being fair, it's not a matter of title.

Yonko characters have shown to be stronger on average; but there are Admiral characters who are on the same level as well  imo.

Akainu's portrayal is comparable to a Yonko, and I'd even say he has one of the best in the series.

Ryokugyu, Fujitora, have been shown to be weaker than them via portrayal.
Kizaru also seems to be locked to YC characters, while his performance is always great and isn't a detriment to his character; he doesn't have any showings against top top tiers that could place him over Yonko characters.

If I were to go by logic, I'd say that Akainu=Yonko>=Aokiji>=Kizaru>Ryokugyu~Fujitora.

If every Admiral was on par with every Yonko, it would create an unbalance in the forces of the world.
Having one of them be on par with Yonko and the rest of them being a different "level" is logical since it keeps the Marine>1 YCrew logic, but 2 YCrews > Marine.

That way, you have Akainu against the Yonko, the 3 Admirals against the 3 Commanders, the YC1(s) level characters give them a fairly decent fight until the Admirals beat them without any noticeable trouble, then they go help Akainu if he's not already done with the Yonko and they win.

I'm still having trouble and debating around this with myself, but seeing how Oda doesn't care about his power levels, it seems to be somewhat adequate to the way the story has shown the relation in strength between these two forces.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 6 | Winner 3 | Neutral 1


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## Shanks (Dec 9, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> I thought Shanks finally killed this stupid debate after his wifi haki feat against Greenbull?


They just say GB is shit   and then down play BB to keep the agenda alive

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Dec 9, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> I thought Shanks finally killed this stupid debate after his wifi haki feat against Greenbull?


No, since Shanks is an Admiral as well

Reactions: Funny 20


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## Shanks (Dec 9, 2022)

Admiral Akanezumi said:


> No, since Shanks is an Admiral as well


I am Goersie+ level, mate.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Corax (Dec 9, 2022)

Even if they fought fight would be inconclusive. Neither Kizaru nor Luffy are allowed to lose here simply due to plot. They might trade blows,show some new moves and potentially awakening. End saga boss is still Teach and Luffy's death match will be vs Teach, Kizaru is reserved for the final war.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## MrPopo (Dec 9, 2022)

GrizzlyClaws said:


> I have seen a few people theorize Kizaru will be confronted and stalled on the shores by Zoro. If that actually happens, it would be the 4th time Kizaru gets paired up against a FM and it would burry any semblance of equality between Yonkos and Admirals.


Just like how yamato was stalling the WSC 

Or big mom running away from Marco

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 9, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Just like how yamato was stalling the WSC
> 
> Or big mom running away from Marco


Yamato is above Admiral level

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Disagree 1


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## MrPopo (Dec 9, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Yamato is above Admiral level


You the same Yamato that got vined diff by greenbull and was begging for Luffy and Co to come and save her ?


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 9, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> You the same Yamato that got vined diff by greenbull and was begging for Luffy and Co to come and save her ?


Same Yamato who isn't allowed to fight back against him, and hence because she isn't allowed to fight, suggests Luffy or Zoro to fight in her stead.  Read the whole context. If she was allowed to fight back Green bull would have become mint-ice cream.

And she took 0 damage despite not fighting back at all 

She is confident in defending Wano if someone "as strong as" GB arrives again which is the whole reason she decides to stay back.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MrPopo (Dec 9, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Same Yamato who isn't allowed to fight back against him, and hence because she isn't allowed to fight, suggests Luffy or Zoro to fight in her stead.  Read the whole context. If she was allowed to fight back Green bull would have become mint-ice cream.
> 
> And she took 0 damage despite not fighting back at all
> 
> She is confident in defending Wano if someone "as strong as" GB arrives again which is the whole reason she decides to stay back.


Yamato just choosed to be captured by greenbull 

She's like scotch there to help gaurd one of the strawhats islands


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 9, 2022)

Shanks said:


> Will a Yonkou FM once again hold off Kizaru i.e Yonkou > Admiral?




you *don't* wanna talk about who has stalled Big Mom  

then we would have admirals > yonkou

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 9, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Yamato just choosed to be captured by greenbull


Damn right  


MrPopo said:


> She's like scotch there to help gaurd one of the strawhats islands


She is there to mid diff any admirals who dare set foot on Wano


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## Shanks (Dec 9, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> you *don't* wanna talk about who has stalled Big Mom
> 
> then we would have admirals > yonkou


Sure things. Let's talk about who stalked Fujitora in Dressrosa also

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 9, 2022)

Shanks said:


> Sure things. Let's talk about who stalked Fujitora in Dressrosa also


sandbagging Fuji
vs
pissed of Meme


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## Shanks (Dec 9, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> sandbagging Fuji
> vs
> pissed of Meme


Meme high dif

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KBD (Dec 9, 2022)

It has been over for quite a while now.  

There are some salty admiral fans who like to pretend that it isn't just to troll.  

But in their heart of hearts, they know the truth though.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## T-Bag (Dec 9, 2022)

The admirals are being saved for last, so dont be so sure youve won yonkofans. Oda is purposefully holding them back. The hype has been on the yonko because they're the focus of the audience for now, then he will switch to the admiral focus and many of you will complain how are the admirals this freaking strong and that it doesn't make sense. In hindsight you will understand why admirals and yonko were always mentioned in the same category.

Just like people have been calling "asspull" on crocodile's, rob lucci's newfound strength they will repeat with the admirals.

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 5


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## JoNdule (Dec 9, 2022)

Only FA Akainu is on Yonko level

Kuzan is put under Teach , thus below all emperors too. Even feat wise
GB admits inferiority to Kaido and Shanks, 
MF akainu lost to WB  in round 2
Fuji has worser feats than emperors

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 9, 2022)

Yonko > Admirals but let's not act like the gap is as big as people make it out to be.

Fact is the Admirals have been getting criminally underrated in recent times by several fanbases, and there's a reason for that other than the Yonko/Admiral circle jerk. People see them as the next baseline for some of the fan favourites like Law, Kidd, Sabo, and Zoro to surpass; whereas before it was the YFMs so they're directing their vitriol against them in order to rush and anoint their fav characters. There's also an elaborate and obvious agenda to diminish them against such characters so that they can push the narrative than Yonkos "stomp" Admirals or something like that.

The Emperors are stronger individually, on average for sure.

Overall, Current Sakazuki and Admiral Prime Sengoku are probably the only ones that are Yonko level. The same would go for prime versions of Garp and Kong if they are to be counted (no reason not to if you count the likes of Shiki and Roger on the Emperors side)

Aokiji is very close in strength to one but that remains to be seen. I don't buy the fact that he is Blackbeard's crew member = being inferior to a Yonko since we know he has ulterior motives for being a Blackbeard pirate, and more likely than not a mission to fulfill. After all, Mihawk is seen as going under the umbrella of a Yonko (Buggy) as a subordinate too, but it doesn't mean he is actually subservient to one. Kuzan is just trying to pull a Blackbeard on Blackbeard. He may be weaker than a Yonko like Blackbeard, but that wouldn't be the reason why.

Then there is Kizaru, who I can see taking down a Yonko with the right amount of preparation but is overall inferior to one in strength. Of course, we have still yet to see Kizaru's Awakening.

Fujitora and Green Bull are inferior. I also believe they're weaker than the predecessors they've replaced.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1


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## KBD (Dec 9, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Yonko > Admirals

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Steven (Dec 9, 2022)

Shanks blitzed Kizaru in Red.No reason to believe Admirals are a challange for serious Yonkous

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 9, 2022)

Steven said:


> Shanks blitzed Kizaru in Red.No


non-canon

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Lewd 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 9, 2022)

Steven said:


> Shanks blitzed Kizaru in Red.No reason to believe Admirals are a challange for serious Yonkous



No reason to take Film Red seriously unless you think Usopp is a superior Observation Haki user right now than Katakuri and Luffy.

Should we make a thread about that?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Steven (Dec 9, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Should we make a thread about that?


Clearly a outlier.While Shanks Hakiflex already made a Admiral running away

Reactions: Winner 1


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## KBD (Dec 9, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> No reason to take Film Red seriously unless you think Usopp is a superior Observation Haki user right now than Katakuri and Luffy.
> 
> Should we make a thread about that?


I don't see why he wouldn't be. 

Doubting Usopp

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Yuji (Dec 9, 2022)

To be honest this was never really a legitimate debate, it's like Zoro vs Sanji one is clearly stronger than the other and only fanboys disagree

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Nello (Dec 9, 2022)

Yuji said:


> To be honest this was never really a legitimate debate, it's like Zoro vs Sanji one is clearly stronger than the other and only fanboys disagree


Take Zoro's sword away and he would get neg diffed by Sanji.

"But that's not fair, Zoro is a swordsman, you can't just take away his main weapon"

Yeah well Sanji is a cook and he doesn't need a spatula to kick ass

Reactions: Funny 12 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 9, 2022)

yonks are old news

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 3


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## Geralt-Singh (Dec 9, 2022)

Admirals >= Yonko

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 4 | Friendly 1 | Disagree 1


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## ShadoLord (Dec 9, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Same Yamato who isn't allowed to fight back against him, and hence because she isn't allowed to fight, suggests Luffy or Zoro to fight in her stead.  Read the whole context. If she was allowed to fight back Green bull would have become mint-ice cream.
> 
> And she took 0 damage despite not fighting back at all
> 
> She is confident in defending Wano if someone "as strong as" GB arrives again which is the whole reason she decides to stay back.


Greenbull took 0 damage from getting a direct bonk to the head

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShadoLord (Dec 9, 2022)

Anyways, if Zoro can stall Kizaru indefinitely. People need to wake up from their Kid/Law delusions

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Dec 9, 2022)

Oda Report said:


>



This is the only fanbase where no actual battle can occur but still classify the encounter as  such.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 9, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yonks are old news


You are old

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Mutsu (Dec 9, 2022)

Corax said:


> Even if they fought fight would be inconclusive. Neither Kizaru nor Luffy are allowed to lose here simply due to plot. They might trade blows,show some new moves and potentially awakening. End saga boss is still Teach and Luffy's death match will be vs Teach, Kizaru is reserved for the final war.


Weren't we told about some new endgame knights that exist? We may not need to save all of the admirals for the EoS.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 9, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> No reason to take Film Red seriously unless you think Usopp is a superior Observation Haki user right now than Katakuri and Luffy.
> 
> Should we make a thread about that?


Ussop showed superiority in a particular branch of CoO. Just like Sanji showed superiority in the raid in a particular branch. Kata and Luffy still have future sight which is hyped as very rare.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Ayy lmao (Dec 9, 2022)



Reactions: Agree 1


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Lol enel > lucci

Moria > hody


And there’s the issue of sabo vs akainu one has to consider.


Most admirals are also fights for luffy’s henchmen not luffy himself. Luffy has bigger threats to squash


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## trance (Dec 9, 2022)

shanks should've ended the debate

only akainu could be on their level and even then probably not

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Dec 9, 2022)

trance said:


> shanks should've ended the debate


How? If anything it showed shanks knew gb threat as he spotted him out.


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## MrPopo (Dec 9, 2022)

trance said:


> shanks should've ended the debate
> 
> only akainu could be on their level and even then probably not


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## YellowCosmos (Dec 9, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> And she took 0 damage despite not fighting back at all



Greenbull wasn't actually trying to damage her. He simply captured her.


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## Ayy lmao (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Lol enel > lucci
> 
> Moria > hody
> 
> ...


If we are to believe that Pre-skip Lucci had Coa as his Vivre Card states, then fuck no.

A much stronger version of Luffy struggled much more against Hody than he did against Moriah, so fuck no.

Are you seriously arguing that Pre-Skip combined G2 & G3 Luffy >> FA G2/ G3 Luffy?? Holy christ.

Even assuming you're right about those 2 examples, it's amazingly disingenous of you to pretend that majority of villians defeated in newer arcs aren't stronger than villians in older arcs, as if it isn't true for pretty much every single arc in the story.

As expected from the Yonkoset, still struggling to determine who is stronger between Mr 1 and King   .

Also, why are you bringing up Sabo vs Akainu and why do we have to consider it, lil bro  ?


arv993 said:


> Most admirals are also fights for luffy’s henchmen not luffy himself. Luffy has bigger threats to squash


How convinient of you to neglect that 2 of Luffy's henchmen already fought 2 emperors the last arc, as if a henchman fighting someone disproves that they are strong

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 9, 2022)

YellowCosmos said:


> Greenbull wasn't actually trying to damage her. He simply captured her.


So it was a stalemate because Yamato also wasn't fighting him


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> If we are to believe that Pre-skip Lucci had Coa as his Vivre Card states, then fuck no.
> 
> A much stronger version of Luffy struggled much more against Hody than he did against Moriah, so fuck no.
> 
> ...


It said he learned coa over the timeskip. Read that again.

He’s weaker than enel. Enel would have had a 500 M bounty. He would fry pre ts lucci.


The best version of Moria beats hody. His best zombie required nightmare luffy to help beat him.


The admirals are not going to each have an arc as a main villain. Are you crazy?

It’s going to be a war where Zoro, Sanji and others take the admirals out.


Zoro didn’t do much outside of giving kaido a scar.


Dude, Oda settled this. Kaido is the strongest! If you think kizaru and Gb are stronger. You are just biased, the admirals are henchmen bosses.


Yeah, we can’t assume luffy will have a fight to the death with akainu when we have sabo around.


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## Upendo Upendo no Mi (Dec 9, 2022)

Film Red and Greenbull Gate have really derailed the Admiral movement, but I think a lot of people will be surprised at what the Admirals will show in the Final War.

Keep in mind, we haven't even seen any of them go all out on screen. They came closest to doing so in Marineford, but they were still restricted from doing so as to not destroy the island.

Overall, I do concede that the average Yonko is likely stronger than the average Admiral based on status and showings in the story so far, but I’m also very certain that Akainu and by extension Aokiji definitely play on a very similar general level. Kizaru should be there too, but we frankly haven’t seen him go up against an opponent of his strength for an extended period of time on screen.
As for Greenbull and Fujitora, I will admit that they don’t have any showings that put them on that same upper echelon of Top Tiers yet, but they are still more than credible threats to the Yonko.

Akainu especially is going to be well into the echelon of power of the stronger Yonko like Kaido. He has to be based on his role in the story as one of Luffy's final opponents.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> It said he learned coa over the timeskip. Read that again.
> 
> He’s weaker than enel. Enel would have had a 500 M bounty. He would fry pre ts lucci.
> 
> ...


That is why Lucci exists.
He will fight Sabo.
I assure you my G.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Tsukuyomi said:


> That is why Lucci exists.
> He will fight Sabo.
> I assure you my G.


Lol

That’s for jimbei or someone in that ball park to handle

Sabo is an ace replacement. The flame emperor needs a better challenge


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Lol
> 
> That’s for jimbei or someone in that ball park to handle
> 
> Sabo is an ace replacement. The flame emperor needs a better challenge


Lucci will get stronger.
He is fighting Sabo.
Boy is Already YC1+ without any advanced forms of Haki.
Imagine once he shows us Advcoa or Advcoo(You know cause Leopards are quite nimble and quick).


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## Rob (Dec 9, 2022)

EoS Luffy > EoS Teach > EoS Sakazuki > Rest

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> EoS Luffy > EoS Teach > EoS Sakazuki > Rest

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> EoS Luffy > EoS Teach > EoS Sakazuki > Rest


You are going to fight Sabo right?


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Tsukuyomi said:


> Lucci will get stronger.
> He is fighting Sabo.
> Boy is Already YC1+ without any advanced forms of Haki.
> Imagine once he shows us Advcoa or Advcoo(You know cause Leopards are quite nimble and quick).


He’s Yc1. He’s not stronger than Marco. 


 And it’s the final saga. There’s not much time to grow, sabo will be yonko level. He’s fought admirals, Oda is not going to demote him to lucci


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> He’s Yc1. He’s not stronger than Marco.
> 
> 
> And it’s the final arc. There’s not much time to grow, sabo will be yonko level. He’s fought admirals, Oda is not going to demote him to lucci


He is much stronger than Marco.
He is like Yc1+ atleast.


Yeah he doesn't need to grow by a lot.
Just apply some advcoo and Advcoa and you got yourself a bona-fide top tier.


Infact.
We can bet on it.
Don't be scared.


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## Rob (Dec 9, 2022)

Tsukuyomi said:


> You are going to fight Sabo right?


I'm not role-playing  

But unfortunately I could see Lucci vs. Sabo happening and the latter winning because that's how Oda wants it to go. 

All the "bad guys" will lose in the end, so.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 9, 2022)

_"I'm not role playing"_ - @Rob , 2022


Sorry but this got me good ngl

Reactions: Funny 4


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Tsukuyomi said:


> He is much stronger than Marco.
> He is like Yc1+ atleast.
> 
> 
> ...


 Much Stronger than Marco?

Lol…..

Do you believe this for real?


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Much Stronger than Marco?
> 
> Lol…..
> 
> Do you believe this for real?


You seem scared ?
Do you wanna bet or not


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Tsukuyomi said:


> You seem scared ?
> Do you wanna bet or not


Bet on him taking on eos sabo?

If so yeah, let’s do it


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Bet on him taking on eos sabo?
> 
> If so yeah, let’s do it


Okay.
If I win.
You have to wear a Rob Lucci avy for a month.
If I lose I have to wear a Sabo avy for a month.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Tsukuyomi said:


> Okay.
> If I win.
> You have to wear a Rob Lucci avy for a month.
> If I lose I have to wear a Sabo avy for a month.


Deal

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Ayy lmao (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> It said he learned coa over the timeskip. Read that again.


Incorrect, , not that he learned it there. 


arv993 said:


> He’s weaker than enel. Enel would have had a 500 M bounty. He would fry pre ts lucci.


Lightning is slow enough that Khalifa can react to and block it. Enel is not hitting Lucci. 


arv993 said:


> The best version of Moria beats hody. His best zombie required nightmare luffy to help beat him.


FA Luffy >>> Nightmare Luffy. Moria has no feats that puts him above monster Hordy.


arv993 said:


> The admirals are not going to each have an arc as a main villain. Are you crazy?


Funny, I don't recall saying this anywhere. Maybe my memory is slipping, mind showing me when I did?


arv993 said:


> It’s going to be a war where Zoro, Sanji and others take the admirals out.


And....? It's not like Zoro and Sanji won't eventually be solid top tiers at some point lol.


arv993 said:


> Zoro didn’t do much outside of giving kaido a scar.


You better not let the legion see this  

I was also talking about Yammato when I said henchmen, so it was 2 henchmen who fought Kaido/ BM.



arv993 said:


> Dude, Oda settled this. Kaido is the strongest! If you think kizaru and Gb are stronger. You are just biased, the admirals are henchmen bosses.


Shounen law is shounen law. And Yea they are henchmen bosses of Akainu, who himself is also admiral level. 


arv993 said:


> Yeah, we can’t assume luffy will have a fight to the death with akainu when we have sabo around.


Even assuming Luffy doesn't fight him because of Sabo (lol), how exactly does that prove that Yonkos > admirals?


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> Incorrect, , not that he learned it there.
> 
> Lightning is slow enough that Khalifa can react to and block it. Enel is not hitting Lucci.
> 
> ...


False.


He learned it in timeskip:


Enel has extremely large AOE. The pre time skip cat will get fried.


Asgard Moria is superior to hody.



You’re implying admirals are later opponents but you are not realizing that they are opponents for the lesser strawhats not luffy. 

So this nonsense shonen law you keep talking about doesn’t even make sense. 

It’s like saying WW is better than katakuri because he came later.


Yamato stalled kaido. Zoro did the same. But the strawhats like Zoro and Sanji will take admirals in the final war.


GB and some other admiral is going down to eos Sanji and eos Zoro who are both weaker kaido. 

Kaido is also the WSC. He is the strongest. Fujitora is a confirmed swordsman hen he is weaker than shanks and mihawk.

Their feats are also sub par compared to yonko.


No yonko would sweat profusely when conquerors haki is thrown like GB did. 


These are all but a few points that make it obvious that the yonko are stronger on average


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## Shanks (Dec 9, 2022)

Everyone keep repeating stuff from other threads prior to this instead of stating what their agenda piece is


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## TheOmega (Dec 9, 2022)

Mutsu said:


> Weren't we told about some new endgame knights that exist? We may not need to save all of the admirals for the EoS.


Yea the fuckin Gorosei. Which is what we've been saying is the real parallel to the Yonko


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## Ayy lmao (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> False.
> 
> 
> He learned it in timeskip:


The post I linked says it's mistranslation, and the actual translation is that he *improved *it during the timeskip.


arv993 said:


> Enel has extremely large AOE. The pre time skip cat will get fried.


True, but it's still very much dodgeable. I mean Gan Fall's horse did exactly that lol.


arv993 said:


> Asgard Moria is superior to hody.


Nah


arv993 said:


> You’re implying admirals are later opponents but you are not realizing that they are opponents for the lesser strawhats not luffy.


Some will fight Zoro/Sanji and Co, some or one will fight Luffy. Just like we are seeing now with CP0, one is fighting Luffy, the others will fight the other strawhats. 


arv993 said:


> So this nonsense shonen law you keep talking about doesn’t even make sense.


Yea it's nonsensical for me to make an observation that has happened for almost every villain for the entire series, and is also the case in 99% of all battle shouen. Such nonsense indeed.


arv993 said:


> It’s like saying WW is better than katakuri because he came later.


WW never fought Luffy, false equivalence.


arv993 said:


> Yamato stalled kaido. Zoro did the same. But the strawhats like Zoro and Sanji will take admirals in the final war.


Yea, and?


arv993 said:


> GB and some other admiral is going down to eos Sanji and eos Zoro who are both weaker kaido. Kaido is also the WSC. He is the strongest.


Sure, and?


arv993 said:


> Fujitora is a confirmed swordsman hen he is weaker than shanks and mihawk.


Sure, everyone Mihawk is stronger than *must automatically *also be weaker than Shanks   



arv993 said:


> Their feats are also sub par compared to yonko.


Doesn't matter, the later villians > early villians. This is how the story will go, unfortunately.


arv993 said:


> No yonko would sweat profusely when conquerors haki is thrown like GB did.


BM was sweating quite alot despite zero CoC being thrown at her, but whatever.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ayy lmao (Dec 9, 2022)

Mutsu said:


> Weren't we told about some new endgame knights that exist? We may not need to save all of the admirals for the EoS.





TheOmega said:


> Yea the fuckin Gorosei. Which is what we've been saying is the real parallel to the Yonko


No, they are called the holy knights/ God's knights, if Akainu was talking about the Gorosei, he would've just said that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Typhon (Dec 9, 2022)




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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> The post I linked says it's mistranslation, and the actual translation is that he *improved *it during the timeskip.
> 
> True, but it's still very much dodgeable. I mean Gan Fall's horse did exactly that lol.
> 
> ...


Every source/ translation of vivre card says it was during the 2 years of the timeskip. 

Get the VIZ or the data book source. Not some Reddit post. 

He doesn’t have haki. He would have shown it otherwise.

His biggest attacks are literally way larger than Zeus level attacks. No way is rob dodging that.

Oda also said he would be a 500 M threat. He is a far bigger threat than rob at that point.

They aren’t fighting luffy. The only admiral that may fight luffy is akainu. And even that isn’t guaranteed. 


But what is guaranteed is that kaido was WSC hence stronger than anyone else. Those are facts.


Wb was the strongest in his prime. No admiral had these titles.


Mihawk and his near equal rival shanks > fuji


The admiral feats are also below yonko. Big mom wasn’t sweating kaido of all people, she wouldn’t fear anyone like an admiral lol

 


Sanji and zoro’s admirals will definitely be weaker than kaido. Sanji and Zoro can’t solo kaido by eos.


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## nyamad (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Sanji and zoro’s admirals will definitely be weaker than kaido. Sanji and Zoro can’t solo kaido by eos.


Whilst I’m in the yonko>admiral gang, Zoro should be able to solo Mohawk by then, who is confirmed > Shanks, who according to Kaido, is greater than BM. So Zoro would be above 2 yonko by then. Not really the best argument that admirals are gnna fight henchmens when one of the henchmen will be most likely stronger than 2/4 emperors.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nello (Dec 9, 2022)

Rob said:


> I'm not role-playing
> 
> But unfortunately I could see Lucci vs. Sabo happening and the latter winning because that's how Oda wants it to go.
> 
> All the "bad guys" will lose in the end, so.


Are you saying Lucci isn't a bad guy


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

nyamad said:


> Whilst I’m in the yonko>admiral gang, Zoro should be able to solo Mohawk by then, who is confirmed > Shanks, who according to Kaido, is greater than BM. So Zoro would be above 2 yonko by then. Not really the best argument that admirals are gnna fight henchmens when one of the henchmen will be most likely stronger than 2/4 emperors.


We don’t know when Zoro vs. mihawk will happen. It may be after the final war etc.

If Zoro does become shanks level by EOS he will just high diff his admiral whereas Sanji will need extreme diff.


Regardless mihawk and shanks are definitely stronger than fuji by feats and hype.


Sanji will not be yonko level by eos maybe not ever but yeah losing to eos Sanji is something only an admiral would get to experience.

Eos Sanji will likely not be BM level.


Admirals mostly are henchmen bosses. Luffy doesn’t have time for people like that with the only possible exception being akainu


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## Quipchaque (Dec 9, 2022)

Nello said:


> Are you saying Lucci isn't a bad guy


He's saying that he expects Lucci to lose a potential fight because he is.


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## Mihawk (Dec 9, 2022)

Steven said:


> Clearly a outlier.While Shanks Hakiflex already made a Admiral running away


So now we get to decide and pick and choose what we consider to be outliers and feats that reliable if they conveniently fit?

Rather selective no?


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## nyamad (Dec 9, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> So now we get to decide and pick and choose what we consider to be outliers and feats that reliable if they conveniently fit?
> 
> Rather selective no?


Isn’t this the same movie that had BMP being one whole happy family in WCI when in reality, BM is presumed dead, Pudding is captured, Katakuri and Oven are having an extreme diff fight and One of her territory is completely frozen?


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## Quipchaque (Dec 9, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> unless you think Usopp is a superior Observation Haki user right now than Katakuri and Luffy.



Not really comparable. Usopp's haki is basically a form of enhanced vision and range while Luffy and Katakuri have a variant that let's them enhance pre-cognition.


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## Mihawk (Dec 9, 2022)

nyamad said:


> Isn’t this the same movie that had BMP being one whole happy family in WCI when in reality, BM is presumed dead, Pudding is captured, Katakuri and Oven are having an extreme diff fight and One of her territory is completely frozen?


Exactly

Not to mention Luffy uses G5 in spite of the fact that the movie was confirmed not to take place after Wano

So the entire timeline is fucked too


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## Mihawk (Dec 9, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Not really comparable. Usopp's haki is basically a form of enhanced vision and range while Luffy and Katakuri have a variant that let's them enhance pre-cognition.


The point is, will you give Usopp those feats in a debate about the manga?


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## Quipchaque (Dec 9, 2022)

nyamad said:


> Isn’t this the same movie that had BMP being one whole happy family in WCI when in reality, BM is presumed dead, Pudding is captured, Katakuri and Oven are having an extreme diff fight and One of her territory is completely frozen?



That movie's production began before Wano concluded so I wouldn't overthink that.



Mihawk said:


> The point is, will you give Usopp those feats in a debate about the manga?



As in if I'd consider them canon or consistent with his manga portrayal at least? Then my answer would be yes.


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## Ayy lmao (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Every source/ translation of vivre card says it was during the 2 years of the timeskip.
> 
> Get the VIZ or the data book source. Not some Reddit post.
> 
> He doesn’t have haki. He would have shown it otherwise.


The post you sent is also a fan translation and I dont know where to find the official one. All I'm saying is that Oda may have retconed him to have it.


arv993 said:


> His biggest attacks are literally way larger than Zeus level attacks. No way is rob dodging that.


If he had an attack that big, he would've shown it already. The huge AOE attack he has shown can be dodged by Connis father pushing Connis away and Gan Fall's horse. I.e, not impressive for someone like Rob Lucci in the slightest. People still overrating Enel in 2022, you love to see it.


arv993 said:


> Oda also said he would be a 500 M threat. He is a far bigger threat than rob at that point.


His hypothetical bounty is irrelevant because you dont have a clue how big Lucci's would be and bringing it up multiple times doesn't change that.


arv993 said:


> They aren’t fighting luffy. The only admiral that may fight luffy is akainu. And even that isn’t guaranteed.


Yea, Luffy wont fight the WG's strongest fighters.


arv993 said:


> But what is guaranteed is that kaido was WSC hence stronger than anyone else. Those are facts.


Ok, but too bad this is a shounen manga, and whoever the final villian will be, is guranteed to be stronger than Laido.


arv993 said:


> Wb was the strongest in his prime. No admiral had these titles.


Neither did Big Mom, Shanks or Blackbeard, guess they aren't emperor level either   


arv993 said:


> Mihawk and his near equal rival shanks > fuji


Mihawk hasn't fought him in over a decade, you have 0 proof they are stil "near equal" 


arv993 said:


> Big mom wasn’t sweating kaido of all people, she wouldn’t fear anyone like an admiral lol


I never said anything about BM sweating Kaido, work on your reading comprehension and stop putting words in people's mouth lil bro. 
She was sweating at Pre AdCoC Base Luffy, as early as chapter 1000, someone far weaker than an admiral lol. 


arv993 said:


> Sanji and zoro’s admirals will definitely be weaker than kaido. Sanji and Zoro can’t solo kaido by eos.


Ok, I still fail to see when I said something otherwise.


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## ShWanks (Dec 9, 2022)

I'm gonna laugh so hard when the "Wings" of the Pirate King stop Kizaru.

Marco & Zoro are clear indicators that no one is going straight for their "King" when they are present. Zoro is obviously gonna confront Kizaru & Sanji's gonna hear him & speed to meet him along the way.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> The point is, will you give Usopp those feats in a debate about the manga?


Movie hints about power levels make sense now given the lucci foreshadowing.

I told you that the lucci’s clash with Sanji and sabo meant he wasn’t fodder.


Ussop will get those obsv haki feats or something similar to that kind specialization at some point.


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> The post you sent is also a fan translation and I dont know where to find the official one. All I'm saying is that Oda may have retconed him to have it.
> 
> If he had an attack that big, he would've shown it already. The huge AOE attack he has shown can be dodged by Connis father pushing Connis away and Gan Fall's horse. I.e, not impressive for someone like Rob Lucci in the slightest. People still overrating Enel in 2022, you love to see it.
> 
> ...


She wasn’t sweating luffy…

She took care of him easily. GB was out there sweating at someone’s mere presence…

I am providing counter examples not putting words in your mouth.


The WG’s strongest fighter is Imu…


Oda is the one stating that enel is a big deal. The biggest attacks are bigger than Zeus’s casual attacks. Go re read those chapters.

Enel is out of pre ts rob lucci’s league.

500 million is a big bounty back then, pre ts luffy wasn’t that high when he fought and beat rob. So yeah, it’s pretty straightforward that’s it’s lower than enel’s

Shanks was in kaido’s top 5 and has the some of the best haki feats in the manga. He is upper end top tier. Mihawk is above him by title. Fuji has nowhere near this level of hype.


The final villain is not an admiral….

Lol yeah, imu will be stronger than kaido but it won’t be kizaru 

 


Yeah the group with two of the strongest people in the world and their near equal aka shanks and big mom are <= admirals 





Do you even think these things through. Big mom was portrayed to be very close to kaido in strength and he is the WSC. Shanks was in a top 5 with roger and primebeard and has the best haki right now.


Fuji, kizaru and greenbull have no such hype to be near equals to kaido…


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## arv993 (Dec 9, 2022)

This sounds like some “all top tiers give each other extreme diff” post.


Lol clowns. Yonko and akainu are upper end top tiers and the admirals are lower to mid top tiers.


There are levels to this. 


Imagine using this evidence to think akainu is barely stronger than GB

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 9, 2022)

arv993 said:


> I told you that the lucci’s clash with Sanji and sabo meant he wasn’t fodder.


But I never said he was fodder lol


arv993 said:


> Ussop will get those obsv haki feats or something similar to that kind specialization at some point.


Yes but he doesn't have them right now or anything close to it.


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## TheOmega (Dec 9, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> No, they are called the holy knights/ God's knights, if Akainu was talking about the Gorosei, he would've just said that.


Oh so you mean to say there's even more goons above the sAdmiraLs? Damnn lol


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## Ayy lmao (Dec 9, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> Oh so you mean to say there's even more goons above the sAdmiraLs? Damnn lol


Too bad the admirals have been named the WG's Greatest Military Powers several times then  
+ If they were stronger than the admirals, dont you think CDs would use them as bodyguards at some point  ?
Or they would've fought the revos instead of Fujitora + Greenbull ?
The holy knights arent even implied to be fighters yet here you are wanking them to this extend, holy copium

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## TheOmega (Dec 9, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> Too bad the admirals have been named the WG's Greatest Military Powers several times then
> + If they were stronger than the admirals, dont you think CDs would use them as bodyguards at some point  ?
> Or they would've fought the revos instead of Fujitora + Greenbull ?
> The holy knights arent even implied to be fighters yet here you are wanking them to this extend, holy copium


Yonko> sAdmiraLs so I don't really care

Reactions: Winner 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Pharaonik (Dec 10, 2022)

All I know it's Sakazuki should be on par with a Stronger Luffy than the one who fought Kaido.. so he will be amongst the strongest. 

The other admirals especially GB/Fuji are for now maybe weaker than Yonkous on average... but I think when they will perform with no restrictions, their Gap with Yonkous  will be closer.


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## TheOmega (Dec 10, 2022)

Pharaonik said:


> All I know it's Sakazuki should be on par with a Stronger Luffy than the one who fought Kaido.. so he will be amongst the strongest.
> 
> The other admirals especially GB/Fuji are for now maybe weaker than Yonkous on average... but I think when they will perform with no restrictions, their Gap with Yonkous  will be closer.


Nah. Yall forgetting that it took a whole alliance and Kaido lifting an island and purposefully taking ahots he coulda dodged for him to eventually go down.

Akainu will just be Sabo throwin hands and then Luffy finishing the job for his brothers

Compare 20 people moving 1000 pounds to 2 people moving 500

Value 1 needs each individual to perform less work even though Value 2 is actually lighter

The new bosses don't have to stronger, they just need to be more challenging

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pharaonik (Dec 10, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> Nah. Yall forgetting that it took a whole alliance and Kaido lifting an island and purposefully taking ahots he coulda dodged for him to eventually go down.


So are you implying that if current Luffy fights Kaido again without all of it, the outcome would be different?? I personally don't think so.
I think G5 Luffy at full power is stronger than Kaido at full power.


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## TheOmega (Dec 10, 2022)

Pharaonik said:


> So are you implying that if current Luffy fights Kaido again without all of it, the outcome would be different?? I personally don't think so.
> I think G5 Luffy at full power is stronger than Kaido at full power.


Fresh Kaido not carrying an island, not running a gauntlet and not standing there tanking shots with his chin will still beat current Luffy.

The fight would be much closer since Luffy starts with a higher power level/skillset than before but the WSC still takes it.

Kaido still remains the WSC, his power level doesn't magically get copy pasted to every other character just because he played his part in the story


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## Chip Skylark (Dec 10, 2022)

If Kizaru loses the admiral gang will just throw him in the "weaker than the other admirals" boat just like they did with Greenbull and Fujitora

There will never be an end

Reactions: Funny 7


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## TheOmega (Dec 10, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> If Kizaru loses the admiral gang will just throw him in the "weaker than the other admirals" boat just like they did with Greenbull and Fujitora
> 
> There will never be an end


"Muh akainu chan got weaker from sitting at a desk all day"  ~Shibainu 202x


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 10, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> If Kizaru loses the admiral gang will just throw him in the "weaker than the other admirals" boat just like they did with Greenbull and Fujitora
> 
> There will never be an end


I will admit defeat.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2022)

Yeah, Shanks put them niggas all in check.

I’m sorry dawgs, it’s was a good run and then GB showed up, it’s always the marimos bringing the brothers down.

Reactions: Funny 13


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## Sufex (Dec 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> The only people who think it hasn't concluded are admiral fans.
> 
> GB vs Shanks, and Shanks vs Kizaru and Fujitora in the movie, buried the fantasy completely.


Wait till the final war brother


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## Sufex (Dec 10, 2022)

Beast said:


> Yeah, Shanks put them niggas all in check.
> 
> I’m sorry dawgs, it’s was a good run and then GB showed up, it’s always the marimos bringing the brothers down.


Shanks is him ngl but no way akainu not gonna be relative when he awakens.


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2022)

Sufex said:


> Shanks is him ngl but no way akainu not gonna be relative when he awakens.


Koby and Akainu the only hope left!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheOmega (Dec 10, 2022)

Beast said:


> Koby and Akainu the only hope left!


Koby gonna fight Akainu and get saved by Sabo who then gets saved by Luffy


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 10, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> Koby gonna fight Akainu and get saved by Sabo who then gets saved by Luffy


Akainu going through the Kaido gauntlet ?


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> Koby gonna fight Akainu and get saved by Sabo who then gets saved by Luffy


Koby just needs to meet Kidd and it’s done. He’s met and worked with the strongest pirates of this generation.

Akainu is safe till EOS or he leaves that war room. Getting beat by Dragon or Sabo or Luffy isn’t all that bad and above any admirals we’ve seen.

they make Garp look bad but they will better then any admiral bar Sengoku.


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## Sufex (Dec 10, 2022)

Beast said:


> Koby and Akainu the only hope left!


Don't forget sober kizaru

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Sufex (Dec 10, 2022)

Tsukuyomi said:


> I will admit defeat.


 Mah ninja


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2022)

Sufex said:


> Don't forget sober kizaru


Even I’m sober and Kizaru is done.


Akainu>~ Fuji>~ Aokiji>~ Kizaru> GB 

the world has changed much brethren.


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 10, 2022)

Sufex said:


> Wait till the final war brother


The matter is settled. Don't need to wait for anything. One side is clearly superior.


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## Beast (Dec 10, 2022)

BM even as the weakest yonko is stronger than every admiral bar maybe Akainu and he has to leave his desk to prove that he is stronger than her.

sad sad reality.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

GrizzlyClaws said:


> I have seen a few people theorize Kizaru will be confronted and stalled on the shores by Zoro. If that actually happens, it would be the 4th time Kizaru gets paired up against a FM and it would burry any semblance of equality between Yonkos and Admirals.




The C3 are on the same level and Akainu was paired with Whitebeard. Rayleigh is stronger than a normal FM too.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Turrin (Dec 10, 2022)

The debate won’t end because it’s based on the concept that all Admirals and Yonko are closely equivalent to each other which is fundamentally false. If Kizaru does well it won’t prove all Admirals >= Yonko, just like if he does poorly it won’t prove all Yonko >= Admirals


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The C3 are on the same level and Akainu was paired with Whitebeard. Rayleigh is stronger than a normal FM too.



Unlike Akainu, Sabo didn't get help from 50k marines with Kizaru and Aokiji in the area. Sabo> Fujitora and all those marines by your logic.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Unlike Akainu, Sabo didn't get help from 50k marines with Kizaru and Aokiji in the area. Sabo> Fujitora and all those marines by your logic.


So this is how you cope?


Sabo said Fujitora was holding back btw.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## KBD (Dec 10, 2022)

Sabo > admirals 

all of them

it will be confirmed when he kills Akainu

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> So this is how you cope?
> 
> 
> Sabo said Fujitora was holding back btw.


No, he didn't.  You talk about cope while obviously avoiding my point about Akainu having 50k soldiers with Aokiji and Kizaru in the area very quickly after that panel. Admiral fans for you.


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## Sherlōck (Dec 10, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> If Kizaru loses the admiral gang will just throw him in the "weaker than the other admirals" boat just like they did with Greenbull and Fujitora
> 
> There will never be an end



I mean if Luffy and Kizaru has a serious fight now then obviously Kizaru will lose as would any other Yonko/Admiral except Akainu.

The plot and story demands it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## arv993 (Dec 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> But I never said he was fodder lol
> 
> Yes but he doesn't have them right now or anything close to it.


He will. Ignore the technicalities like the timelines etc.

The main takeaway is that there are some power scaling and cannon info that gets dropped.

For ex: I think shanks will have a flaming sword and the ability to suppress your FS

And the yassop and ussop skills will be highlighted at some point. We already know he is a observation haki specialist



Lucci and smoker being strong now are hinted in the movies. They are both YC1ish now I bet. We got confirmation for lucci just have to wait on smoker. 


Boa got similar treatment. The movies are quite an interesting source. But it can be wildly wrong if you look at luffy etc.


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## Typhon (Dec 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> No, he didn't.  You talk about cope while obviously avoiding my point about Akainu having 50k soldiers with Aokiji and Kizaru in the area very quickly after that panel. Admiral fans for you.


It is cope because 2 of the strongest commanders got a free shot on Akainu and didn't do shit. What's the rest supposed to do when he’s actually on guard? lol


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## Nello (Dec 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> Sabo > admirals
> 
> all of them
> 
> it will be confirmed when he kills Akainu


Sabo defeats Akainu
Sanji defeats Kizaru
Fujitora is essentially defeated by himself when he betrays the marines
GB already defeated and humiliated

Reactions: Winner 1


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## KBD (Dec 10, 2022)

Nello said:


> Sabo defeats Akainu
> Sanji defeats Kizaru
> Fujitora is essentially defeated by himself when he betrays the marines
> GB already defeated and humiliated


 

damn, whomever has to fight GB in the future is already cucked. 

beating  makes you as strong as Shanks looking at someone menacingly  

Ao Kiji bros must be happy as hell that he is now rolling with BBP instead

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KBD (Dec 10, 2022)

Crossguild discussing the bounty they should give GB:

"hmm, what's the catalog price for decorative houseplants?"

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Dec 10, 2022)

can you imagine the outrage if sanji fought kizaru  

Luffy vs Lucci
Zoro vs S-Hawk
Sanji vs Kizaru

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shanks (Dec 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> Sabo > admirals
> 
> all of them
> 
> it will be confirmed when he kills Akainu


The future president of the WG and the world is stronger than admirals are obvious


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 10, 2022)

Both are in the same tier, no Yonkou is beating any Admiral without huge difficulty

This isnt Toriko or Bleach where a handful of characters shits on everyone else

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## TheOmega (Dec 10, 2022)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Both are in the same tier, no Yonkou is beating any Admiral without huge difficulty
> 
> This isnt Toriko or Bleach where a handful of characters shits on everyone else


Lmao last time I checked, Shanks told niggas it was time to go home and that's what they did

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Zero (Dec 10, 2022)

OP put "final" like  we aint gonna make a Yonko vs Admirals thread NEXT WEEK LOL

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> No, he didn't.  You talk about cope while obviously avoiding my point about Akainu having 50k soldiers with Aokiji and Kizaru in the area very quickly after that panel. Admiral fans for you.




You're delusional.

Akainu fought the WB Commanders and they couldn't beat him.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## arv993 (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> You're delusional.
> 
> Akainu fought the WB Commanders and they couldn't beat him.


Yes, with backup.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> You're delusional.
> 
> Akainu fought the WB Commanders and they couldn't beat him.


Why do you guys keep acting like Akainu was solo? We literally see tons of Marines helping him against the WBP...


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## Shanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Keep in mind what Akainu accomplished is pushing forward with support. Some of you acting like like Akainu solo and WB commanders or something.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Typhon (Dec 10, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Why do you guys keep acting like Akainu was solo? We literally see tons of Marines helping him against the WBP...


Because you same people say any non-Admiral is trash. Don't switch up now to downplay Akainu


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Typhon said:


> *Because you same people say any non-Admiral is trash*. Don't switch up now to downplay Akainu


Huh? What does that even mean?

Admirals aren't trash. They're just trash to Yonko. I never included Akainu in that though as he's a Fleet Admiral.


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## arv993 (Dec 10, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Because you same people say any non-Admiral is trash. Don't switch up now to downplay Akainu


50,000 marine officers mean nothing now?


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## trance (Dec 10, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Huh? What does that even mean?
> 
> Admirals aren't trash. They're just trash to Yonko. I never included Akainu in that though as he's a Fleet Admiral.


he's talking about the marines ranked lower than admirals being trash

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

trance said:


> he's talking about the marines ranked lower than admirals being trash


Did he not see my lists? I have those VAs a whole tier above those commanders that were helping Marco...that doesn't apply to me.


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## trance (Dec 10, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> that doesn't apply to me.


don't think he was targeting you specifically (despite him quoting you)

he most likely was just generalizing


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## Typhon (Dec 10, 2022)

arv993 said:


> 50,000 marine officers mean nothing now?


In this Akainu vs WB commanders scenario? Yes

Kaidou pulled off an even more impressive feat just last arc and the Black Beard pirates ran away from Akainu who then folded those same WB commanders.


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Typhon said:


> In this Akainu vs WB commanders scenario? Yes
> 
> Kaidou pulled off an even more impressive feat just last arc and the Black Beard pirates ran away from Akainu who then folded those same WB commanders.


Akainu wasn't alone on that Navy vessel & BB was referencing it.

There's no reason for BB who JUST managed to strengthen his crew to risk losing his best crewmates in a clash with Akainu & co considering he was targeting a plan to become ruler of the seas. That meaningless fight would push his plan back years.


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## Typhon (Dec 10, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Akainu wasn't alone on that Navy vessel & BB was referencing it.





ShWanks said:


> There's no reason for BB who JUST managed to strengthen his crew to risk losing his best crewmates in a clash with Akainu & co considering he was targeting a plan to become ruler of the seas. That meaningless fight would push his plan back years.


Then why would they fight Garp and Sengoku together? After *just* strengthening the crew. That's cap.


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## Shanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Then why would they fight Garp and Sengoku together? After *just* strengthening the crew. That's cap.


Because BB has a big head and then got put in his place at MF, so he's scared shitless and know his place after that  

Make sense, right now it's BB pirates vs. Trafagar D Law


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Then why would they fight Garp and Sengoku together? After *just* forming a crew. That's cap.


He wasn't alone mate. Someone was literally driving the ship man...he had others with him, Marines NEVER ride solo.

Teach literally says he's not ready for that YET. Because Sengoku & Garp were old as dirt & Teach doesn't respect them & tends to underestimate people. WB literally tells him this plus he had just got the strongest fruit in the world.

Akainu > Sengoku

& BB probably figured his crew would man handle older Garp. It's an entire crew vs TWO enemies & numbers matter greatly as Garp has no AOE attacks nor fruit.

Akainu has NUMBERS with him & is superior to Sengoku. That was a much more risky fight.


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Yes, with backup.





ShWanks said:


> Why do you guys keep acting like Akainu was solo? We literally see tons of Marines helping him against the WBP...





Shanks said:


> Keep in mind what Akainu accomplished is pushing forward with support. Some of you acting like like Akainu solo and WB commanders or something.





Weird how they keep said Akainu was fighting the Commanders. Not 50k Marines were fighting the Commanders. It's very clear that he clashed with the Whitebeard Commanders and they couldn't overpower him. Cope and seethe.


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Then why would they fight Garp and Sengoku together? After *just* strengthening the crew. That's cap.


Weird how they keep saying Akainu is there. Not that a bunch of fodder Marines are there. It's almost like Akainu was the threat to both the WB Pirates and BB Pirates.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Weird how they keep said Akainu was fighting the Commanders. Not 50k Marines were fighting the Commanders. It's very clear that he clashed with the Whitebeard Commanders and they couldn't overpower him. Cope and seeth


There's literally panels showing Marines being ordered to help Akainu fight the WBPs...

What do you expect the WBP to just murderstomp Akainu in a second before help that's literally 5 seconds away can come?

The sheer ignorance here is insane.


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Then why would they fight Garp and Sengoku together? After *just* strengthening the crew. That's cap.


The same people that are quick to point out a bunch of Marine fodder being around or with Akainu in those instances will say that Ryokugyu ran away from Shanks alone, even though he had at least 3 Commander+ level people with him. 4 counting Marco. He even said that he wasn't ready to fight "you guys" yet. He was talking about the crew.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The same people that are quick to point out a bunch of Marine fodder being around or with Akainu in those instances will say that Ryokugyu ran away from Shanks alone, even though he had at least 3 Commander+ level people with him. 4 counting Marco. He even said that he wasn't ready to fight "them" yet. He was talking about the crew.


Don't do that. 
Greenbull specifically ran & was shown VISIBLY shaken by Shanks' willpower alone. No one else but Shank's Haki did that to him. The dude was sweating, in panic/terror, & submissive from the HAKI not number of enemies.

Don't try discrediting Shank's portrayal on account of Admirals.


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## arv993 (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Weird how they keep said Akainu was fighting the Commanders. Not 50k Marines were fighting the Commanders. It's very clear that he clashed with the Whitebeard Commanders and they couldn't overpower him. Cope and seethe.


Yeah, because you want every fodder to be named. 

It's said that 50,000 marines helped akainu. 

Don't start believing in fanfic now

Reactions: Winner 1


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## arv993 (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The same people that are quick to point out a bunch of Marine fodder being around or with Akainu in those instances will say that Ryokugyu ran away from Shanks alone, even though he had at least 3 Commander+ level people with him. 4 counting Marco. He even said that he wasn't ready to fight "you guys" yet. He was talking about the crew.


Completely disingenuous as expected.

Green cow was sweating at a mere haki flex of shanks. He put his hands up instinctively as well.


No yonko would be this pathetic when reacting to Coc haki.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 4


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Completely disingenuous as expected.
> 
> Green cow was sweating at the mere haki flex of shanks. He put his hands up instinctively as well.
> 
> ...


They love trying to tie the Crew into the Shanks Haki feat to save face for Admirals. Has agenda all over it.

The HAKI is what scared him not crew.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Yeah, because you want every fodder to be named.
> 
> It's said that 50,000 marines helped akainu.
> 
> Don't start believing in fanfic now


They didn't have too. They could have said the Marines are fighting the WB Commanders or Akainu and the Marines were fighting the WB Commanders. You're coping.


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## xmysticgohanx (Dec 10, 2022)

yeah im sorry team admiral but greenbull fucked us

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4 | Winner 1 | Useful 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Don't do that.
> Greenbull specifically ran & was shown VISIBLY shaken by Shanks' willpower alone. No one else but Shank's Haki did that to him. The dude was sweating, in panic/terror, & submissive from the HAKI not number of enemies.
> 
> Don't try discrediting Shank's portrayal on account of Admirals.


You're coping. We're directly told that he was retreating due to numbers and even said that he'd fight them at another time.


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> yeah im sorry team admiral but greenbull fucked us


It's like they love to project copium instead of just accepted that GB is a coward & got dominated by another man's will.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> You're coping. We're directly told that he was retreating due to numbers and even said that he'd fight them at another time.





xmysticgohanx said:


> yeah im sorry team admiral but greenbull fucked us


Lol see right after my comment

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Like how can people try damage controlling this?
Like why the hell would he mention only Shanks when he knows they're the most "Impenetrable Crew" & always together? Why wasn't Akainu noted that specifically Luffy was on Egghead instead of "Strawhats"

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## trance (Dec 10, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> yeah im sorry team admiral but greenbull fucked us


even before GB showed us what a loser he is, he canonically chickened out from fighting fuji


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

trance said:


> even before GB showed us what a loser he is, he canonically chickened out from fighting fuji


Nah, he seemed like he just didn't wanna destroy holy land nor fight a marine ally. GB seems to hate Pirates as much as Akainu however so there's no excuse.

He wasn't sweating not paralyzed by Fujitora


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## trance (Dec 10, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Nah, he seemed like he just didn't wanna destroy holy land nor fight a marine ally. GB seems to hate Pirates as much as Akainu however so there's no excuse.
> 
> He wasn't sweating not paralyzed by Fujitora


bring up whatever excuse you want

doesn't change the fact fuji was willing to throw down while GB wasn't


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## trance (Dec 10, 2022)

and i like how you think i'm comparing the sitch with fuji to the sitch with shanks

lolshwanks


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

trance said:


> bring up whatever excuse you want
> 
> doesn't change the fact fuji was willing to throw down while GB wasn't


Idc they're Admirals both are cowards in front of the Emperor Shanks.


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## trance (Dec 10, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Idc they're Admirals both are cowards in front of the Emperor Shanks.





trance said:


> and i like how you think i'm comparing the sitch with fuji to the sitch with shanks
> 
> lolshwanks


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

trance said:


> and i like how you think i'm comparing the sitch with fuji to the sitch with shanks
> 
> lolshwanks


I don't think YOU were but I have to make it clear for the more simple folks here who would take & imply so for Admiral Agenda.

Can't give them any leeway.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 10, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Lol see right after my comment


Take it up with Oda. We'll have to wait and see.


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## ShWanks (Dec 10, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Take it up with Oda. We'll have to wait and see.


Would you advocate for a Chua Wawa barking vs a Pitbull while visibly trembling? Lmao


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 11, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Would you advocate for a Chua Wawa barking vs a Pitbull while visibly trembling? Lmao


Blackbeard and Akainu? So what. You think the Admirals are on the level of Commanders?


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## ShWanks (Dec 11, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Blackbeard and Akainu? So what. You think the Admirals are on the level of Commanders?


BB didn't shake, sweat, & panic at power based abilities, only avoided a fight. GB literally got terrorized by willpower.

No work with me now. Maybe just maybe there's a level in-between Admirals & Mere Commanders like Old Rayleigh.

Yonko >= Fleet Admiral >= Admirals > Old Legends & Admiral Candidates > Mere Commanders


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 11, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> BB didn't shake, sweat, & panic at power based abilities, only avoided a fight. GB literally got terrorized by willpower.


No. He just shit his pants and ran away with his crew from Akainu.



> No work with me now. Maybe just maybe there's a level in-between Admirals & Mere Commanders like Old Rayleigh.
> 
> Yonko >= Fleet Admiral >= Admirals > Old Legends & Admiral Candidates > Mere Commanders


I doubt it. Akainu barely beat Aokiji. They were on the same level, so Kizaru probably is too. It's possible Fujitora and Ryokugyu are a step down, but the C3, Mihawk and the Emperors are probably all on the same level. I'm willing to bet on that. If there are differences, it's not going to be that big.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 11, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> If Kizaru loses the admiral gang will just throw him in the "weaker than the other admirals" boat just like they did with Greenbull and Fujitora
> 
> There will never be an end


Soon enough it will come to a point where every admiral is weaker than the other admira-

Wait  How is this even possible ??

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Pharaonik (Dec 11, 2022)

The GB gate didn't change anything...  even Kaido retreated when the RHP confronted him. The only thing that hurts us was his overreacting personnality, fortunately  personnality doesn't equate to strenght, even with that "poor portrayal" GB might still push any yonks to high diff minimum.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 11, 2022)

Pharaonik said:


> The GB gate didn't change anything...  even Kaido retreated when the RHP confronted him. The only thing that hurts us was his overreacting personnality, fortunately  personnality doesn't equate to strenght, even with that "poor portrayal" GB might still push any yonks to high diff minimum.


He gets mid diffed if he is lucky. He was paralysed and screaming in pain, begging for the pain to stop, before he even knew it was Shanks. pathetic.


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## Lee-Sensei (Dec 11, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> If Kizaru loses the admiral gang will just throw him in the "weaker than the other admirals" boat just like they did with Greenbull and Fujitora
> 
> There will never be an end


Loses to who?


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## Pharaonik (Dec 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> He gets mid diffed if he is lucky. He was paralysed and screaming in pain, begging for the pain to stop, before he even knew it was Shanks. pathetic.


It's a part of his character... he is just  like BB or Orochi. He also screamed in pain and begged Momo to wait when he got Borobreathed so as i said, the only thing bad about the GB gate was that pathetic personnality . Strength wise, I think at full power he grabs a high diff against the Yonks at the very least.. don't let his pathetic personnality fool you , no Yonks mid diffs him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Dec 11, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Soon enough it will come to a point where every admiral is weaker than the other admira-
> 
> Wait  How is this even possible ??


the final form for their argument is "akainu can low/mid diff all of his admirals since as the FA, he is supposed to be that strong"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## charles101 (Dec 11, 2022)

final xdxd

it's never going to end, it's going to be Itachi vs Minato of this section


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## Mihawk (Dec 11, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Soon enough it will come to a point where every admiral is weaker than the other admira-
> 
> Wait  How is this even possible ??



Well to be honest 

this entire section is at fault since we now also have terms like "entry level Yonko" or takes like "Kaido can high diff Big Mom or Shanks". 

The closest thing we have to a rational take is that the Yonko extreme diff each other and the same goes for Admirals. The only exceptions to this will probably be Fleet Admiral Akainu and EoS Prime Teach.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## trance (Dec 11, 2022)

kaido can high diff BM


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 11, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Well to be honest
> 
> this entire section is at fault since we now also have terms like "entry level Yonko" or takes like "Kaido can high diff Big Mom or Shanks".
> 
> The closest thing we have to a rational take is that the Yonko extreme diff each other and the same goes for Admirals. The only exceptions to this will probably be Fleet Admiral Akainu and EoS Prime Teach.


Agreed. Entry level Yonko is pure cope that exists to downplay some characters' progress just for the OG Yonko to stay relevant even if they have already been defeated.

Same goes for "new gen Admirals" and stuff just to downplay new Admirals and preserve C3 status as if they are supposed to be in a different tier.

Yonko extreme diff each other and Admirals extreme diff each other period. Whoever is slightly stronger is up to debate, but it doesn't go below extreme diff regardless.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 11, 2022)

Pharaonik said:


> It's a part of his character... he is just  like BB or Orochi. He also screamed in pain and begged Momo to wait when he got Borobreathed so as i said, the only thing bad about the GB gate was that pathetic personnality . Strength wise, I think at full power he grabs a high diff against the Yonks at the very least.. don't let his pathetic personnality fool you , no Yonks mid diffs him.


That isn't part of his character. Pure copium. He was scared.


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## Chip Skylark (Dec 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> That isn't part of his character. Pure copium. He was scared.


This. x1000 this.


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## MrPopo (Dec 11, 2022)

trance said:


> kaido can high diff BM


Them fighting to a stalemate says otherwise


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## Chip Skylark (Dec 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Them fighting to a stalemate says otherwise


Nah, their fight ended prematurely, and even Kaido said that he hadn't been pushed in a 1v1 in recent memory.


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## MrPopo (Dec 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> That isn't part of his character. Pure copium. He was scared.


Greenbull is scared yet he's willing to fight against Shanks

Reactions: Agree 2


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## MrPopo (Dec 11, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Nah, their fight ended prematurely, and even Kaido said that he hadn't been pushed in a 1v1 in recent memory.


It's no different than big mom saying she hadn't felt pain in decades when facing kidd and law its Oda hyping up the new gen. 

Futhermore how could their fight end prematurely when they were fighting for atleast a whole day. Their fight and how it ended was no different than Roger and Whitebeard who eveyone has as equals

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chip Skylark (Dec 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> It's no different than big mom saying she hadn't felt pain in decades when facing kidd and law its Oda hyping up the new gen.
> 
> Futhermore how could their fight end prematurely when they were fighting for atleast a whole day. Their fight and how it ended was no different than Roger and Whitebeard who eveyone has as equals


If you look at the entire picture instead of ignoring any implication that doesn't benefit your argument that dialogue would also show that their fight didn't seriously conclude. The fight ended with both having only superficial injuries, and neither being fatigued. Stands to reason that they bonded before the fight escalated. Makes a lot more sense than acting like they deliberately ignored their fight just days before to falsely hype the new gen.



MrPopo said:


> Greenbull is scared yet he's willing to fight against Shanks


Also totally disingenuous. Greenbull outright said that he would've never invaded Wano if Kaido were still present, and that he didn't want to pick a fight with Shanks. Greenbull was literally quivering with snot running down his nose from the sensation of Shanks' haki alone. When he said "not today anyways", he obviously didn't mean that he'd instigate a conflict in the future by himself. Be serious, dude.


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## MrPopo (Dec 11, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> If you look at the entire picture instead of ignoring any implication that doesn't benefit your argument that dialogue would also show that their fight didn't seriously conclude. The fight ended with both having only superficial injuries, and neither being fatigued.


Roger and Whitebeard ended in the same manner both had plenty of energy and the extent of their was a few bandages.


Chip Skylark said:


> Stands to reason that they bonded before the fight escalated. Makes a lot more sense than acting like they deliberately ignored their fight just days before to falsely hype the new gen.


Their statements contradict what happened before with their duel where they  fought each other for 3 days.

Big Mom split the heavens with Kaido just like Luffy the same Luffy that Kaido says he fight toe to toe with. 


Chip Skylark said:


> Also totally disingenuous. Greenbull outright said that he would've never invaded Wano if Kaido were still present, and that he didn't want to pick a fight with Shanks. Greenbull was literally quivering with snot running down his nose from the sensation of Shanks' haki alone.


Big Mom has snot running from her nose form seeing G4 and Zoro on the rooftop not the best argument


Chip Skylark said:


> When he said "not today anyways", he obviously didn't mean that he'd instigate a conflict in the future by himself. Be serious, dude.


Still prepared to take on the red hair pirates and we already know you had to have permission from HQ to attack an yonkou it's come balanty obvious


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## trance (Dec 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Them fighting to a stalemate says otherwise


kaido not putting BM in his top 5 and telling luffy he's not been seriously challenged in a long time says otherwise


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## MrPopo (Dec 11, 2022)

trance said:


> kaido not putting BM in his top 5 and telling luffy he's not been seriously challenged in a long time says otherwise


Already addressed the serious challenge point and when Kaidp made his top 5 big mom was his ally at the time wouldn't make sense to include her in it.


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## Chip Skylark (Dec 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Roger and Whitebeard ended in the same manner both had plenty of energy and the extent of their was a few bandages.


If you think that was a serious to the death battle when they ended with a feast and a treasure exchange then I don't know what to tell you. They had many fights in the past. That wasn't the one that made the world recognize them as equals.


MrPopo said:


> Their statements contradict what happened before with their duel where they  fought each other for 3 days.
> 
> Big Mom split the heavens with Kaido just like Luffy the same Luffy that Kaido says he fight toe to toe with.


There's nothing that says their fight went on for 3 days, and their splitting the skies doesn't mean the fight was serious. Shanks split the skies in his clash against WB without the fight escalating further. Both Kaido & Big Mom said that their fight ended without any serious repercussion. Really not possible in an extreme diff battle that reached its natural conclusion.


MrPopo said:


> Big Mom has snot running from her nose form seeing G4 and Zoro on the rooftop not the best argument


She wasn't quivering with her hands in the air pleading for Luffy and Zoro to stop. Find it hard to believe that these are serious arguments of yours.


MrPopo said:


> Still prepared to take on the red hair pirates and we already know you had to have permission from HQ to attack an yonkou it's come balanty obvious


In the first place Greenbull was there to fight a Yonko (Luffy) without permission from his superiors...


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## trance (Dec 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Already addressed the serious challenge point and when Kaidp made his top 5 big mom was his ally at the time wouldn't make sense to include her in it.


oda disagrees

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pharaonik (Dec 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> That isn't part of his character. Pure copium. He was scared.


Show fears is part of his character ,he is not stoic like Fujitora, he showed fear against Momo's Borobreath so it's not a surprise if he shows fear against Shanks powerful Coc + the whole RHP, it's in character. But regardless Shanks powerful Coc, GB clearly said *not yet*, that means he doesn't rule out that possibility ,it wasn't just the right time.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 11, 2022)

Lmao all the copium for strongest admiral Green Cow it is hilarious.


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## Shanks (Dec 11, 2022)

You guys are all offtopic   

I am asking what is your agenda piece, not your two piece opinion


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## Sir Curlyhat (Dec 11, 2022)

_GB totally does not emote heavily even when he's not in any serious danger










_

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

trance said:


> oda disagrees


Yeah By having them fight each other to a stalemate aka Kaido doesn't high diff big mom


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> If you think that was a serious to the death battle when they ended with a feast and a treasure exchange then I don't know what to tell you. They had many fights in the past. That wasn't the one that made the world recognize them as equals.


Except it was that was the fight that buggy was referring to before that there's a five year gap of Roger and Whitebeard not meeting eachother at all.  Then before that Whitebeard was still a rookie comming up and buggy would have been to young to remember them fighting Whitebeard. 



Chip Skylark said:


> There's nothing that says their fight went on for 3 days, and their splitting the skies doesn't mean the fight was serious. Shanks split the skies in his clash against WB without the fight escalating further. Both Kaido & Big Mom said that their fight ended without any serious repercussion. Really not possible in an extreme diff battle that reached its natural conclusion.


The last time we see big mom Kaido there's 7 days until the raid starts big mom and kaido fight around  10 days before the raid starts 

So having a death match isn't a serious fight? Dorry and Borgy aren't equals either then as none of thier fights ended with serious repercussions 


Chip Skylark said:


> She wasn't quivering with her hands in the air pleading for Luffy and Zoro to stop. Find it hard to believe that these are serious arguments of yours.


She was paralyzed with fear and begging Kaido to dodge Zoro 


Chip Skylark said:


> In the first place Greenbull was there to fight a Yonko (Luffy) without permission from his superiors...


Greenbull wanted to get Akainus approval he went against orders in order to go for Luffy. Going after the other yonkou wouldn't give greenbull praise from Akainu.


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## trance (Dec 12, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Yeah By having them fight each other to a stalemate aka Kaido doesn't high diff big mom


weird how they """stalemated""" yet kaido just a day later asks himself how long its been since anyone's gone toe to toe against him and this is before G5

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

trance said:


> weird how they """stalemated""" yet kaido just a day later asks himself how long its been since anyone's gone toe to toe against him and this is before G5


Your right Kaido was going to lose to big mom, Luffy was finally a good fight that he could win

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## KBD (Dec 12, 2022)

People are reading far too much into Tsundere Kaido folding to BMs charms. 

I-I'll kill you if you come here LinLin 

Same with the top5 and people who could fight him. Surely, Lin Lin oneechan would never


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## KBD (Dec 12, 2022)

Also the sky splitting and the "fight" ?

That's just the secret Yonko Handshake


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## trance (Dec 12, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Your right Kaido was going to lose to big mom, Luffy was finally a good fight that he could win


1v1 king and world's strongest pirate per killer's words at the time of the raid is losing to someone with less hype and worse portrayal?


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

trance said:


> 1v1 king and world's strongest pirate per killer's words at the time of the raid is losing to someone with less hype and worse portrayal?


Yes


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## ShWanks (Dec 12, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Greenbull is scared yet he's willing to fight against Shanks


Usopp was willing to fight against Kizaru doesn't change the fact he was terrified & fodder to him..


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## Chip Skylark (Dec 12, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Except it was that was the fight that buggy was referring to before that there's a five year gap of Roger and Whitebeard not meeting eachother at all.  Then before that Whitebeard was still a rookie comming up and buggy would have been to young to remember them fighting Whitebeard.


Not true... was said that Buggy and Shanks had already been apprentices for ages by that point. Whitebeard was also obviously a notorious pirate already having served as one of Rox's top men for so long. Honestly wild that you'd refer to him as an up and coming rookie.


MrPopo said:


> The last time we see big mom Kaido there's 7 days until the raid starts big mom and kaido fight around  10 days before the raid starts
> 
> So having a death match isn't a serious fight? Dorry and Borgy aren't equals either then as none of thier fights ended with serious repercussions


That doesn't mean their fight lasted for as long as they were off-screen...

Dorry and Broggy would actually fight until they couldn't anymore. Their fights ended with each of them knocked down and unable to continue.


MrPopo said:


> She was paralyzed with fear and begging Kaido to dodge Zoro





MrPopo said:


> Greenbull wanted to get Akainus approval he went against orders in order to go for Luffy. Going after the other yonkou wouldn't give greenbull praise from Akainu.


Greenbull literally requested a fleet, and ordered his subordinates not to tell Akainu. It's ok to be wrong.


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Not true... was said that Buggy and Shanks had already been apprentices for ages by that point.


Buggy and shanks would have been in toddlers, Buggy is 39 right now he would be at most 8 years old when Whitebeard fought Roger who wasn't even a great pirate then 


Chip Skylark said:


> Whitebeard was also obviously a notorious pirate already having served as one of Rox's top men for so long. Honestly wild that you'd refer to him as an up and coming rookie.


That's what the manga says 


Chip Skylark said:


> That doesn't mean their fight lasted for as long as they were off-screen...
> 
> Dorry and Broggy would actually fight until they couldn't anymore. Their fights ended with each of them knocked down and unable to continue.


Dorry and Broggy could still continie


Chip Skylark said:


> Greenbull literally requested a fleet, and ordered his subordinates not to tell Akainu. It's ok to be wrong.


How does this go against what I've said greenbull was willing to go against his orders to get Luffy for Akainu the same can't be said for greenbull going after other yonkou


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## YellowCosmos (Dec 12, 2022)

@Sir Curlyhat is right. 
Greenbull seems to have a lot of overreactions to things. Almost all of the things people like to talk about in the Shanks CoC scene are present in the Boro Breath scene. See page 11. 
Is he shocked? Yes. 
Is he sweating? Yes.
Is he screaming in pain? Yes.
Are his hands thrown up? Yes. 
Did any of that matter? No.

Also, as much as the Shanks fans like to play up this scene so as to have substance for their wet dreams of Shanks clowning Admirals, Greenbull never explicitly addressed Shanks or referred to him as an individual. He referred to the Redhair Pirates _twice_ (when he identified them and when he said "I don't want to fight you guys... not yet". Pretty clear that he bailed because of the presence of the whole crew.

Obviously, it doesn't follow that he wouldn't have bailed if it was Shanks by himself in Wano. (This is something Aramaki's defenders ought to take note of). What he would have done is pure conjecture and it would be conjecture about what Greenbull would have done when _in Wano _(that is, with Luffy, Kidd and Law and the samurai present and potentially opposing him). That conjecture is not the answer to the question of whether Greenbull would be willing to fight Shanks 1 vs 1 given no other problematic elements. Considering how audacious his invasion of Wano seems (given the overwhelming force arrayed against him), it's a bit strange to think that this guy would be scared of Shanks as an individual.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## Ayy lmao (Dec 12, 2022)

Several panels shows Akainu confronting the WB pirates with zero other marines present + Marco is talking directly to Akainu and doesn't mention anyone else  = Lolz Akainu + 50K marines were fighting the WB pirates, it was never at any point just Akainu, not even in the panels were he was all alone haha XD

A distracted Akainu is shown no-selling 2 attacks from a FM and a YC2  = Lolz Akainu is at best equal to Marco haha XD

Van Auger mentions the marines aren't willing to trade a ship because of Akainu and doesn't mention anyone else, BB mentions he isn't ready for him yet  = Lolz, they didn't run away from Akainu, they ran from all the nameless fodder marines that were never mentioned obviously haha XD

Green bull specifically mentions the Red Hair pirates and "you guys", he never mentions Shanks and implies he will be picking a fight with them at some point = Lolz, Greencow was scared of only SHANKS haha XD!!


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

Green Cow is the strongest Admiral.

And weakest Yonko >>> Green Cow.


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Green Cow is the strongest Admiral.
> 
> And weakest Yonko >>> Green Cow.


Is that why gear fifth couldn't even get rid off luci

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Is that why gear fifth couldn't even get rid off luci


Lucci > Akainu btw


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Lucci > Akainu btw


It's been confirmed multiple times that the admirals are the strongest fighting force in thd wg  . 

Lucci hype just means admiral hype and we're going to see that hype when Kizaru arrives

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> It's been confirmed multiple times that the admirals are the strongest fighting force in thd wg  .
> 
> Lucci hype just means admiral hype and we're going to see that hype when Kizaru arrives


Outdated stuff from decades ago.

CP0 didn't even exist then yet lmao

CP0 > mere admirals


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## Bouki (Dec 12, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> CP0 > mere admirals


iirc "mere" was only used to descibe the yonko, by a character like Jinbe at that who was ironically sweating at the site of Lucci

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

Bouki said:


> iirc "mere" was only used to descibe the yonko,


In comparison to the Pirate King yes.

Admirals aren't even worth mentioning, unfortunately.


Bouki said:


> by a character like Jinbe at that who was ironically sweating at the site of Lucci


Ahh sweat piece

Akainu sweat at the sight of Shanks
Aokiji sweat at the sight of MF Luffy

So MF Luffy > Aokiji and Akainu


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## YellowCosmos (Dec 12, 2022)

Bouki said:


> iirc "mere" was only used to descibe the yonko, by a character like Jinbe at that who was ironically sweating at the site of Lucci



He wasn't... Jimbei was clearly shocked by what CP0 was doing. They had just seen Lucci using Rokugun on Atlas.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bouki (Dec 12, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> In comparison to the Pirate King yes.
> 
> Admirals aren't even worth mentioning, unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Why would the admirals be mentioned when Jinbe shits his pants at the sight of one lmao

Jinbe admits he can only buy a little time against the might of an admiral and accepts his death



Vs mere yonko where he welcomes an attempt at his life, and he bought as little time as 12 hours during WCI pursuit lmao


You can't makes this up

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Karma (Dec 12, 2022)

"Final"

Reactions: Funny 4


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Outdated stuff from decades ago.
> 
> CP0 didn't even exist then yet lmao
> 
> CP0 > mere admirals


CP0 is public knowledge and the admirals are still shown as the ultimate force as the wg even most recently from fishmen Island.


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## Etherborn (Dec 12, 2022)

Shanks said:


> Will a Yonkou FM once again hold off Kizaru i.e Yonkou > Admiral?



Why, cuz that’s never happened to a Yonko?


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

Bouki said:


> Why would the admirals be mentioned when Jinbe shits his pants at the sight of one lmao


More like shitted on their faces lmao


Bouki said:


> Jinbe admits he can only buy a little time against the might of an admiral and accepts his death


The might of *3 admirals, and they still failed despite getting a cheap shot in.


Bouki said:


> Vs mere yonko where he welcomes an attempt at his life, and he bought as little time as 12 hours during WCI pursuit lmao
> You can't makes this up


Yonko was his former captain who is known to treat her crewmates like her own children  Giving his life was the only way for him to express his gratitude , meanwhile mere admirals couldn't take his life no matter how hard they tried 

Can't make this up


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> CP0 is public knowledge and the


Not when they don't even exist in the manga yet


MrPopo said:


> admirals are still shown as the ultimate force as the wg even most recently from fishmen Island.


Never happened, Akainu is lucky Lucci doesn't give a shit about the FA position so he and Aokiji can play their child-friendly snowball fights.

Lucci is too mature for that shit


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## MrPopo (Dec 12, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Not when they don't even exist in the manga yet
> 
> Never happened, Akainu is lucky Lucci doesn't give a shit about the FA position so he and Aokiji can have fun with their child-friendly snowball fights.


How could chinjao and luffy leave out cp0 when they talked about becoming pirate king

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> How could chinjao and luffy leave out cp0 when they talked about becoming pirate king


Ikr, how could they?


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## Bouki (Dec 12, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> More like shitted on their faces lmao


Lmfao your arguments are so shit you're not even worth arguing

Jinbe vs Admiral: "I know I can buy a little time but I'm willing to give up my life"
-Tries to attack the Akainu but it's useless
-Put on life support *even though Akainu wasn't aiming for his heart but Luffy's*, needs Ope hax surgery to survive

Jinbe vs Yonko: "I welcome your attempt on my life, mere yonko"

Average yanker brain in denial of manga canon

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

Bouki said:


> Lmfao your arguments are so shit you're not even worth arguing


Your arguments are even worse than shit though, so...
>"you're not even worth arguing"
>keeps replying non stop 


Bouki said:


> Jinbe vs Admiral: "I know I can buy a little time but I'm willing to give up my life"
> -Tries to attack the Akainu but it's useless
> -Put on life support *even though Akainu wasn't aiming for his heart but Luffy's*, needs Ope hax surgery to survive
> 
> ...


Jinbe vs Admiral "I'm willing to give up my life"
>Admiral fails to take the life that Jinbe gladly gave up 
Jinbe: "Fuck's sake"

Jinbe vs Yonko "Thank you for being my captain, I'm willing to give up my life"
>Yonko takes his life effortlessly, and not even Ope Ope hax can help him recover from that 

Average Admiral brain trying to twist the manga into two piece as usual but keeps failing


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## trance (Dec 12, 2022)

fuji is the strongest admiral 

but not even he can beat a yonko and thats ok

Reactions: Winner 1


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## God Movement (Dec 12, 2022)

It's over. Uncle Kizaru will make a statement.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 12, 2022)

God Movement said:


> It's over. Uncle Kizaru will make a statement.


And it's gonna be "Straw Hat, I wadda live !"

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2022)

admirals win the moment they show their awakenings

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 12, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> admirals win the moment they show their awakenings


There are Mingo fans who thought the same.

Reactions: Like 2 | Friendly 1


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## Oda Report (Dec 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> There are Mingo fans who thought the same.



Mingo awakening wasn't foreshadowed to alter an island climate permanently well after a battle.


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 12, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> Mingo awakening wasn't foreshadowed to alter an island climate permanently well after a battle.


Destroying an island in 30 mins with awakening (Birdcage)>>>> failing to destroy an island in 10 days with two awakenings

Reactions: Funny 2 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 4


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## Baroxio (Dec 12, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Your arguments are even worse than shit though, so...
> >"you're not even worth arguing"
> >keeps replying non stop
> 
> ...


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## JoNdule (Dec 12, 2022)

trance said:


> weird how they """stalemated""" yet kaido just a day later asks himself how long its been since anyone's gone toe to toe against him and this is before G5


Except they fought 2 weeks before the raid lol

Also bringing up his statement downplays Shanks also who fought kaido 2 years ago yet Kaido only remembers Oden as the last time he fought really serious

Oh yeah
BM statement also proved Kaido can't hurt her I guess? Since it has been decades since she felt real pain

We know Kaido vs BM wasn't all out battle
So Kaido statement is true , same with BM statement
It doesn't change the fact they fought equally in base for 3 days.
BM got what she wanted: alliance while kaido didn't get what he wanted : killing her /beating her

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 12, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Except they fought 2 weeks before the raid lol
> 
> Also bringing up his statement downplays Shanks also who fought kaido 2 years ago yet Kaido only remembers Oden as the last time he fought really serious
> 
> ...


The stuff about Shanks is fanfic as usual.

He made the top 5, not Linlin

Reactions: Agree 1


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## trance (Dec 12, 2022)

awakening is an incredible boost to AP but adv. CoC is an even bigger boost to AP

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Dec 12, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Except they fought 2 weeks before the raid lol
> 
> Also bringing up his statement downplays Shanks also who fought kaido 2 years ago yet Kaido only remembers Oden as the last time he fought really serious
> 
> ...


and yet amazingly, we have hype for kaido being the 1v1 king and the strongest pirate alive not BM and not putting BM on his mount rustmore


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## JoNdule (Dec 12, 2022)

trance said:


> and yet amazingly, we have hype for kaido being the 1v1 king and the strongest pirate alive not BM and not putting BM on his mount rustmore


No need for that when we know Kaido needs to go all out and 3+ days to beat her
When we know kaido himself says "we will continue our fight to death later on"

 BM was already hyped as one of those who can fight Kaido, no need to show her there when she's also just beside him.



Seraphoenix said:


> The stuff about Shanks is fanfic as usual.
> 
> He made the top 5, not Linlin


Yeah fanfic

Kaido "been way long since I fought seriously,"
Despite seeing Shanks among those 5 guys

Reactions: Like 1


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## Empathy (Dec 12, 2022)

Canonically, all you have to do to prove you’re Yonkou-level is be able to defeat Marco. Not every Yonkou is inherently superior to any Admiral. WB, Kaidou, and probably Shanks are superior to nearly any Admiral, but that’s doesn’t mean that Luffy, Big Mom, and current Teach (and Buggy) are. There’s more variance when it comes to Yonkou than there is between Admirals, IMO.


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## Oda Report (Dec 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Destroying an island in 30 mins with awakening (Birdcage)>>>> failing to destroy an island in 10 days with two awakenings



Sorry the admirals wrecked an island permanently and changed the climate forever as a result of there battle... Doffy Cage targeted an island and still did less damage. 

It's no comparison.


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## Captain Altintop (Dec 12, 2022)

In average case, Yonko beats Admiral with *extreme* (_mid_) diff.
With Fuji and GB as newcomer the average diff. drops just a little bit, maybe *extreme *(_mid-low_) diff.
This is what I would prefer also, since the Manga is mainly about Pirates as well, but with Garp and Sengoku we know that there are some counter parts even with a tiny gap there.

98 Kaido (stronger than all Yonko and Admirals)
97 Shanks Akainu Luffy
96 BM Teach Aokiji Kizaru
94-95 Fuji
93 GB (Sry Aramaki-San, you still young and for a newcomer it's a great achievement)

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Steven (Dec 12, 2022)

Kaido>Your fav
Yonkou>Admiral

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Dec 12, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Canonically, all you have to do to prove you’re Yonkou-level is be able to defeat Marco. Not every Yonkou is inherently superior to any Admiral. WB, Kaidou, and probably Shanks are superior to nearly any Admiral, but that’s doesn’t mean that Luffy, Big Mom, and current Teach (and Buggy) are. There’s more variance when it comes to Yonkou than there is between Admirals, IMO.



Powers vary period. 

Between Yonkou, Admirals and Seven Armed Seas etc.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 12, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> No need for that when we know Kaido needs to go all out and 3+ days to beat her
> When we know kaido himself says "we will continue our fight to death later on"
> 
> BM was already hyped as one of those who can fight Kaido, no need to show her there when she's also just beside him.
> ...


Long time is subjective. Could be a week or a month or a year. You failed here.


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## ShWanks (Dec 13, 2022)

Any hype from this point on is Kaido hype as he's confirmed top 1 so he just scales above everything not named EoS Luffy & BB until stated otherwise just how Roger & WB get the benefit of doubt.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## olorun (Dec 13, 2022)

They're the same level. Some are just lower than others.

Peak kizaru> eos Luffy>primewb>akainu=kaido>=big mom>=aokiji>shanks>fujitora=greenbull>>yc1+++ BB and buggy.
I don't think you could really disagree with the concept that not every yonko or admiral have the exact same power level and abilities.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (Dec 13, 2022)

The debate ended when Oda dropped the hint of Kizaru being >= Kaido + Big Mom

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Friendly 1 | Dislike 1


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 13, 2022)

olorun said:


> They're the same level. Some are just lower than others.
> 
> *Peak kizaru> eos Luffy>primewb>akainu=kaido>=big mom>=aokiji>shanks*>fujitora=greenbull>>yc1+++ BB and buggy.
> I don't think you could really disagree with the concept that not every yonko or admiral have the exact same power level and abilities.



Okay, now I know you aren't a serious poster


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 13, 2022)

olorun said:


> They're the same level. Some are just lower than others.
> 
> Peak kizaru> eos Luffy>primewb>akainu=kaido>=big mom>=aokiji>shanks>fujitora=greenbull>>yc1+++ BB and buggy.
> I don't think you could really disagree with the concept that not every yonko or admiral have the exact same power level and abilities.


Go to bed.


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## Beast (Dec 13, 2022)

Kizaru wank?


ngl…. Kizarus only hope is being stronger than GB.

Fuji, Aokiji and Akainu are still plot heavy related and got things going on.

Kizaru and GB are the admirals with no reason to show respect or stay within the story.


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## Ezekjuninor (Dec 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Long time is subjective. Could be a week or a month or a year. You failed here.


He said “I wonder how long it’s been since I fought someone that could truly go toe to toe with me” wouldn’t make sense if it was just 2 years ago unless Kaidou has amnesia. Shanks likely didn’t have a serious fight with Kaidou.


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## ShWanks (Dec 13, 2022)

I see Kizaru as the Kaido of Admirals. He exists simply to be the strongest.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Pharaonik (Dec 14, 2022)

Can't wait to see Kizaru fight adcoc G5 Luffy evenly without use his awakening since Egghead island still has precious VP creations and his awakening might destroy the whole place.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 14, 2022)

Pharaonik said:


> Can't wait to see Kizaru fight adcoc G5 Luffy evenly without use his awakening since Egghead island still has precious VP creations and his awakening might destroy the whole place.


What if Kizaru gets smacked  Kizaru is weaker than the other admirals then?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 14, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> What if Kizaru gets smacked  Kizaru is weaker than the other admirals then?


If Kizaru gets smacked.
I assure you.
As the voice and reason of the admiral region.
We will all Yield.
But the same applies to you if the reverse happens.
You and your Yonkoset must also yield.
Deal?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Pharaonik (Dec 14, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> What if Kizaru gets smacked  Kizaru is weaker than the other admirals then?


Kizaru get smacked i will yield just like @Tsukuyomi suggested .. 
But if he fights G5 Luffy to a standstill  you must accept that GB and Fuji can do the same as well.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 14, 2022)

Pharaonik said:


> Kizaru get smacked i will yield just like @Tsukuyomi suggested ..
> But if he fights G5 Luffy to a standstill  you must accept that GB and Fuji can do the same as well.


If it is just a standstill then that would be inconclusive  I just want someone to come out ontop already

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pharaonik (Dec 14, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> If it is just a standstill then that would be inconclusive  I just want someone to come out ontop already


I feel you on this one... I just think that it's too early for each to lose.. but you Yonks fans are way too greedy lolz mann like SH will probably succeed the VP rescue mission after a fight in a WG territory without sustain a single capture but you want Luffy to smack uncle Kizaru on top of that .

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gensui Sakazuki (Dec 15, 2022)

The only admiral to have been defeated was defeated by another admiral while the yonko fell one after another.

In Big Mom's case she was defeated by two injured rookies who didn't use haki and who pulled an awakening out of nowhere.

Kaido was defeated by a severely injured Luffy who awakened his fruit for the first time and now used gear 5 to clash with Lucci, resulting in ridiculous power scaling.

WB had to take a cheap shot to be able to surprise Sakazuki and even so he could not defeat him with an attack that breaks islands and worse still WB ended up worse injured.


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## Aldren (Dec 15, 2022)

Yonkou vs Admiral will come to a decisive conclusion, when Kizaru gets pushed to high diff by Zoro in the upcoming chapters.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 15, 2022)

Aldren said:


> Yonkou vs Admiral will come to a decisive conclusion, when Kizaru gets pushed to high diff by Zoro in the upcoming chapters.


lol what's with this ridiculous take?



Zoro is *killing* Kizaru in upcoming chapters 

Stop being a Kizaru fanboy smh

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gensui Sakazuki (Dec 15, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> lol what's with this ridiculous take?
> 
> 
> 
> Zoro is *killing* Kizaru in upcoming chapters


Borsalino smiled as he had Shanks sword at his throat and then when he felt the redhead's CoC he barely grimaced. 
Maybe EoS Zoro has a chance.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 15, 2022)

Gensui Sakazuki said:


> Borsalino smiled as he had Shanks sword at his throat and then when he felt the redhead's CoC he barely grimaced.


Nami's caretaker smiled too before her death.


Gensui Sakazuki said:


> Maybe EoS Zoro has a chance.


EoS Zoro can fight 3 admirals probably


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## Gensui Sakazuki (Dec 15, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> EoS Zoro can fight 3 admirals probably


The only pirate king said to bring him one or the other, not two at the same time.


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## Wh1p (Dec 15, 2022)

I don't really understand the Kizaru > Ryokugyu/Fujitora agenda.


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## Mihawk (Dec 15, 2022)

Wh1p said:


> I don't really understand the Kizaru > Ryokugyu/Fujitora agenda.



Is it really an agenda?

Most people cite plot relevance or ambition against Kizaru, but if that was the only thing that mattered in comparing the Admirals then he would be the weakest of them all. More likely, the truth is Kizaru's purpose is being saved for last and his hype or relevance in the plot has yet to be revealed. He could very well be reaching his full potential in this arc.

It's also not that hard to believe Kizaru > Ryokugyo/Fujitora when he has far more experience, joined the Navy at the same time as Sakazuki did some 40 years ago according to the Film Z databook, and has been the only Admiral thus far who has yet to be wounded. With a devil fruit as destructive and a tenure as long as his, Kizaru could very well be the 2nd most powerful soldier on the Navy's side by the time the Final War rolls around. If so, there would be nothing wrong with that..

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 15, 2022)

Gensui Sakazuki said:


> The only pirate king said to bring him one or the other, not two at the same time.


Garp is stronger than admirals


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## xmysticgohanx (Dec 15, 2022)

Aldren said:


> Yonkou vs Admiral will come to a decisive conclusion, when Kizaru gets pushed to high diff by Zoro in the upcoming chapters.


i predict zoro will need a powerup


Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Garp is stronger than admirals


probably true

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aldren (Dec 15, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> lol what's with this ridiculous take?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for correcting me.

I am still too young and ignorant.

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Oda Report (Dec 15, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Any hype from this point on is Kaido hype as he's confirmed top 1 so he just scales above everything not named EoS Luffy & BB until stated otherwise just how Roger & WB get the benefit of doubt.



wtf lol kaidou got put in the dirt leave it out.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Dec 15, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> wtf lol kaidou got put in the dirt leave it out.



I think he wants us to believe that Old WB is getting hyped whenever we get top tier hype since WB was > all.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 16, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Any hype from this point on is Kaido hype as he's confirmed top 1 so he just scales above everything not named EoS Luffy & BB until stated otherwise just how Roger & WB get the benefit of doubt.



Roger/Primebeard/Xebec/Joy Boy/Ryuuma > Kaido.

Hell even Prime Garp is probably a bit stronger.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2022)

Zoro and Kizaru aren't even on the same island yet and blood is already boiling.

Oda pls give the ppl what they want.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## ShWanks (Dec 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> wtf lol kaidou got put in the dirt leave it out.





TheWiggian said:


> I think he wants us to believe that Old WB is getting hyped whenever we get top tier hype since WB was > all.


Kaido is confirmed #1 among the living so any feats from henceforth he scales over regardless unless said character is stated to have gotten stronger since his defeat.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 16, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Kaido is confirmed #1 among the living



All the more reason he's not #1 then, since he's neither among the living nor were the people stronger than him alive when he was around.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## ShWanks (Dec 16, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> All the more reason he's not #1 then, since he's neither among the living nor were the people stronger than him alive when he was around.


Except he is. Face it Kaido scales above Every Admiral & Yonko. Databooks confirm he's the strongest in combat among Yonko & ODA implied he's superior to Akainu who's the strongest living marine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Dec 16, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Except he is. Face it Kaido scales above Every Admiral & Yonko. Databooks confirm he's the strongest in combat among Yonko & ODA implied he's superior to Akainu who's the strongest living marine.


Nah he doesn't. 

We been through this before. 

Also like I said Roger/WB/Xebec/Garp/Ryuuma/JB are all neither alive or in their prime, so that flies against your claim of him being #1 among the living.


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## Oda Report (Dec 16, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Kaido is confirmed #1 among the living so any feats from henceforth he scales over regardless unless said character is stated to have gotten stronger since his defeat.



No he isn't. 

kaidou is dead by someone not confrimed stronger then a whole Lotta pirates and marines. 

Leave it out.


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## Kuroro (Dec 16, 2022)

Yonkou have better hype and feats. There isn't a huge gap in power between the two, however. It's even possible for the Admirals to surpass the Yonkou in some manner. Akainu has better offensive power than his peers thanks to his DF.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Dec 16, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> The debate ended when Oda dropped the hint of Kizaru being >= Kaido + Big Mom


you guys just be making things up huh?


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 16, 2022)

Jack>=Fuji+Sengoku

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## TheTwelfthKenpachi (Dec 16, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Jack>=Fuji+Sengoku


and Tsuru as well.

Every day Akainu prays and thanks the heavens that Jack didn't attack Marine Ford. He would've taken on 2 Admirals and a top VA as per canon and most likely would've killed both.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## ShWanks (Dec 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> No he isn't.
> 
> kaidou is dead by someone not confrimed stronger then a whole Lotta pirates and marines.
> 
> Leave it out.


Stop acting like Kaido only fought Luffy. Kaido fought 15+ opponents while managing an island simultaneously. Luffy fought one In Kaido.

Stop it.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## JoNdule (Dec 16, 2022)

There's a reason why Mihawk being ex warlord, marine hunter, wss, joining a marine hunting crew alongside 2 warlords,
He sill has less 400M below 4B... he's not fit.
He's also under a gag character
Kuzan is under Teach

You can't just be Yonko level as Rocks pirates and Roger...
Only Shanks, Garp, Sengoku have managed to rival them 1v1 or in war so far.

soon Teach (his bounty proves he's almost there) , soon Luffy (when he beats Kizaru 1v1 or other top tier without help) , maybe Akainu & Dragon

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 5


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## Mystic (Dec 16, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> There's a reason despite Mihawk being ex warlord, marine hunter, wss, joining a marine hunting crew alongside 2 warlords,
> He sill has less 400M below 4B... he's not fit.
> He's also under a gag character
> Kuzan is under Teach
> ...


This has to be the dumbest take ever. So only Roger and the Rock Pirates are Yonko level and no one else, not Luffy, not Teach even though they both are, same with Shanks, Garp, Sengoku ONLY manage to rival them and that’s the best they get.  Such a ridiculous notion.

@ShWanks how can you agree with this nonsense. They’re downplaying characters at their rightly established levels. Forget Mihawk this is just absurd.


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## JoNdule (Dec 16, 2022)

Mystic said:


> This has to be the dumbest take ever. So only Roger and the Rock Pirates are Yonko level and no one else, not Luffy, not Teach even though they both are, same with Shanks, Garp, Sengoku ONLY manage to rival them and that’s the best they get.  Such a ridiculous notion.
> 
> @ShWanks how can you agree with this nonsense. They’re downplaying characters at their rightly established levels. Forget Mihawk this is just absurd.


Yes only Roger & Rocks pirates are peak of OP world
That's why they also have the highest bounties with the best hype and portrayal + feats

Rocks are the greatest fighters
It has been about them for the last 50 years :
Xebec ruled,
Then WB and Shiki ruled with Roger, 
then WB, BM and Kaido ruled till recently

Not forgetting even Wang Zhi had islands under him, Yonko Teach needing coby help to win there

Come back when anyone beside Shanks, Garp, Sengoku can rival them truly.
Shiki and WB were rivaled by Sengoku for decades
BM and Roger by Garp for decades
Rocks trio by Shanks for 6 years.
Even Luffy and Teach aren't there yet even tho Luffy beat weakened kaido 1v1
Current Teach struggling with Law

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Oda Report (Dec 16, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Stop acting like Kaido only fought Luffy. Kaido fought 15+ opponents while managing an island simultaneously. Luffy fought one In Kaido.
> 
> Stop it.



Stop acting like those 15 opponents actually did significant damaged to kaidou. 

Lifting the island didn't do jack to kaidou either. Luffy was damn near killed and still beat the breaks off kaidou.


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## God sl4yer (Dec 16, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> There's a reason despite Mihawk being ex warlord, marine hunter, wss, joining a marine hunting crew alongside 2 warlords,
> He sill has less 400M below 4B... he's not fit.
> He's also under a gag character
> Kuzan is under Teach

Reactions: Like 2


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## trance (Dec 16, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Jack>=Fuji+Sengoku


jack almost made fuji put his bowl of noodles down

Reactions: Funny 6


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## ShWanks (Dec 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> Stop acting like those 15 opponents actually did significant damaged to kaidou.
> 
> Lifting the island didn't do jack to kaidou either. Luffy was damn near killed and still beat the breaks off kaidou.


So getting pierced through by ALL of them & permanently scarred isn't significant damage? Stop it.

You're trying to discredit Kaido for having otherworldly endurance. It's not his fault for having an extra 2 health bars in comparison to everyone else's standard amount.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Dec 16, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> So getting pierced through by ALL of them & permanently scarred isn't significan damage? Stop it.



By that logic you must think the scabbards almost killed kaidou. Stop wanking.   



ShWanks said:


> You're trying to discredit Kaido for having otherworldly endurance. It's not his fault for having an extra 2 health bars in comparison to everyone else's standard amount.



majority he fought just didn't do any significant damage that is all. Because majority lacked powerful AdCoC. Nothing more nothing less.


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## ShWanks (Dec 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> By that logic you must think the scabbards almost killed kaidou. Stop wanking.
> 
> 
> 
> majority he fought just didn't do any significant damage that is all. Because majority lacked powerful AdCoC. Nothing more nothing less.


No, I think Kaido takes damage far better than every other character is all. Especially considering Law Gamma Knifed & fried his throat + organs & he took it like it was nothing.

They did. He's just insanely enduring. He's so strong he literally has you thinking he took no damage lol. It's exactly why I hype him as Strongest.


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## Oda Report (Dec 16, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> No, I think Kaido takes damage far better than every other character is all.



kaidou is a durable monster. 



ShWanks said:


> Especially considering Law Gamma Knifed & fried his throat + organs & he took it like it was nothing.



Kaidou being a tank is nothing new. 



ShWanks said:


> They did. He's just insanely enduring. He's so strong he literally has you thinking he took no damage lol. It's exactly why I hype him as Strongest.



They didn't do anything significant most struggle because of his scales, or lacked powerful haki to power up there attacks. Hence why it was a highlight when Zoro cut kaidou past his scales and Luffy once he learned AdCoC coating.


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## ShWanks (Dec 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> kaidou is a durable monster.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's an endurance Zoan monster as well. Like how can you argue Gamma Knife which completely bypasses durability didn't injure him when even counter shock was noticably affecting BM. Gamma Knife >>>> Counter Shock.

Exactly

Lmao you're argument is that because Kaido can soak extremely potent attacks well that he shouldn't be credited as being hurt by them...

Let me ask you this, is Luffy taking all of what Kaido's taking while lifting an island then surviving an island sized fist only to die due to MAGMA pit?


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## ShWanks (Dec 16, 2022)

Mystic said:


> This has to be the dumbest take ever. So only Roger and the Rock Pirates are Yonko level and no one else, not Luffy, not Teach even though they both are, same with Shanks, Garp, Sengoku ONLY manage to rival them and that’s the best they get.  Such a ridiculous notion.
> 
> @ShWanks how can you agree with this nonsense. They’re downplaying characters at their rightly established levels. Forget Mihawk this is just absurd.


I agree with it because he's referring to Old Gen Yonko lvl which is above the current Gen in our opinions. There is no PK lvl. Roger & all the Prime Rocks Members are Old Gen Great Pirate lvl which is what he's calling Yonko lvl.

The newer Gen is just a step under alongside Old WB.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Dec 16, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> He's an endurance Zoan monster as well. Like how can you argue Gamma Knife which completely bypasses durability didn't injure him when even counter shock was noticably affecting BM. Gamma Knife >>>> Counter Shock.



Kaidou is a tank Monster, his endurance wasn't much when Luffy understood to CoC coating and then later awakening. Gamma Knife was insignificant to kaidous overall performance much like the rest of the attacks...



ShWanks said:


> Exactly



kaidou is a tank Monster Yes. 



ShWanks said:


> Lmao you're argument is that because Kaido can soak extremely potent attacks well that he shouldn't be credited as being hurt by them...



No....it's a misconception that kaidou was weakened and took significant damage by those fleas who lacked powerful CoC coating, not to mention those fleas had extreme issues getting past his scales. . . .the entire theme of the Rooftop fight was trying to atleast do significant damage to kaidou which the majority on the Rooftop failed to do.

Tanks r gonna tank and kaidou aswell as Big Mom are tanks. 



ShWanks said:


> Let me ask you this, is Luffy taking all of what Kaido's taking while lifting an island then surviving an island sized fist only to die due to MAGMA pit?



kaiodu lifting an island hindered him in no way. Luffy is the one who punched kaidou into the magma.


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## Fel1x (Dec 16, 2022)

I've never thought that one day I will support Legion
but yes, Zoro can defeat Kizaru during this arc. no doubts
he is weaker for now, but at the end of the fight , Zoro would take W. just like vs King

guy is ready for that

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oda Report (Dec 16, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> I've never thought that one day I will support Legion
> but yes, Zoro can defeat Kizaru during this arc. no doubts
> he is weaker for now, but at the end of the fight , Zoro would take W. just like vs King
> 
> guy is ready for that



It's funny how the Zoro vs king fight is still misunderstood by so many OL scholars.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fel1x (Dec 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> It's funny how the Zoro vs king fight is still misunderstood by so many OL scholars.


what's wrong? you think Zoro was stronger even at the beginning of the fight against King or what?


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## Pharaonik (Dec 16, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Jack>=Fuji+Sengoku


I know what you did there but that was just a naval battle just like Curly haired pirates vs Big Mom pirates   

On the other hand, Uncle Kizaru meant to step up in Wano Land since Akainu answered that they don't know Samurais strength .

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Dec 16, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> what's wrong? you think Zoro was stronger even at the beginning of the fight against King or what?



Yup the entire theme of the Zoro vs King fight was Zoro to stop holding himself back.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1 | Disagree 2


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## Fel1x (Dec 16, 2022)

Oda Report said:


> Yup the entire theme of the Zoro vs King fight  was holding himself back.


what do you mean by holding back? its some headcanon
its like saying G5 Luffy was holding back against Kaido because EoS G5 will be much stronger

during the fight Zoro went from randomly using ACoC to using it by his own will
its more than clear Zoro was losing most of the fight. when you are being ragdolled and being damaged by that, it only means you are weaker than your opponent

its not the same as for example what happened with Kaido vs RT5. he was just tanking whole stuff without trying to dodge or even block because he didn't even bother himself with stuff like that against clearly weaker guys

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oda Report (Dec 16, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> what do you mean by holding back? its some headcanon
> its like saying G5 Luffy was holding back against Kaido because EoS G5 will be much stronger



it's not the same as Luffy vs kaidou, unlike Luffy, Zoro gained no powerup during the fight vs King, Zoro just learned a valuable lesson on not to hold back.



Fel1x said:


> during the fight Zoro went from randomly using ACoC to using it by his own will



No, Zoro stopped holding back and poured his all into his blades and thus was always able to use his CoC full time rather then trying to find that middle ground like he did vs kaidou and randomly dipping into his CoC here and there.



Fel1x said:


> its more than clear Zoro was losing most of the fight. when you are being ragdolled and being damaged by that, it only means you are weaker than your opponent



That's what happens when you hold back you get beaten up. . .

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Dec 17, 2022)

Pharaonik said:


> I know what you did there but that was just a naval battle just like Curly haired pirates vs Big Mom pirates
> 
> On the other hand, Uncle Kizaru meant to step up in Wano Land since Akainu answered that t*hey don't know Samurais strength* .


Akainu fears the might of the legendary Raizo

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gokou08 (Dec 22, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Akainu fears the might of the legendary Raizo


He should after what he did to Kaido

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Bouki (Dec 22, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Akainu fears the might of the legendary Raizo


Raizo more dangerous than 100 hostages Kaido and Linlin

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Captain Altintop (Dec 22, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> I agree with it because he's referring to Old Gen Yonko lvl which is above the current Gen in our opinions. There is no PK lvl. Roger & all the Prime Rocks Members are Old Gen Great Pirate lvl which is what he's calling Yonko lvl.
> 
> The newer Gen is just a step under alongside Old WB.


Exactly.

Or instead of Yonko/Admiral just call them top tier.


```
Top Tier (Top)        - EoS Luffy, ...
Top Tier (High)       - Roger, WB , Garp , EoS Law / EoS Kid
Top Tier (Mid-High)   - EoS Law / EoS Kid , Kaido , Shanks , Akainu , Sengoku , EoS Zoro
Top Tier (Mid)        - Big Mum , Teach , Rayleigh , Kizaru , Aokiji
Top Tier (Mid-Low)    - EoS Sanji , Fujitora , Greenbull
Top Tier (Low)        - Beckman , Gaban
Top Tier (Bottom)     - Current Law , Current Kidd
```

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Dec 24, 2022)

Gensui Sakazuki said:


> Borsalino smiled as he had Shanks sword at his throat and then when he felt the redhead's CoC he barely grimaced.
> Maybe EoS Zoro has a chance.


I wouldn’t mention Kizaru’s pitiful performance against Shanks in that movie if I was you.


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## Gensui Sakazuki (Dec 24, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> pitiful


Pitiful? 
Borsalino only used one attack and then raised his arms as he did against Beckman and smiled as he did so.


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## Inferno Jewls (Dec 24, 2022)

Yes it'll be final once Kizaru molly wops luffy in his own goofball game


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 24, 2022)

Sorry, but Leanbull already ended that debate. There's literally no scenario that would allow a fresh Whitebeard, Kaido, or Big Mom to run away from a Yonko crew via wifi Haki. 

Put any of the above in the same scenario and they would charge at Shanks and co instead of running away like a bitch.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Inferno Jewls (Dec 24, 2022)

Lol any yonko would charge at them cause of your headcanon but big memer strictly told her kids to not mess with the Old Geezer or the red haired man

Kaido got stopped in his own territory , his own country  

talk about some "BruV if It A YONK they would fight shanks and his crew ez ez ez"

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Pharaonik (Dec 25, 2022)

Yonkou Blackbeard would sweat buckets and run if he is alone against a Yonkou crew..

Reactions: Like 2 | Neutral 1


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## ShWanks (Dec 26, 2022)

Captain Altintop said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Or instead of Yonko/Admiral just call them top tier.
> 
> ...


I gotcha. Some people need spoon feeding 24/7


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## Dunno (Dec 26, 2022)

The debate was over once Ryokugyu beat King who one-shot Big Mom. Buggy becoming a Yonkou is icing on the cake.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Dec 26, 2022)

Dunno said:


> The debate was over once Ryokugyu beat King who one-shot Big Mom. Buggy becoming a Yonkou is icing on the cake.


@Bouki

Reactions: Winner 1


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## jesusus (Dec 26, 2022)

The debate was over once Prime Shanks was fodderized by some random aquatic life and the debate was over once again when Big Mom was fodderized by her own non-sentience

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Dellinger (Dec 26, 2022)

We’ve been over this countless times. Portrayal , hype, feats everything supports the emperors being stronger. I mean it was unthinkable for the old emperors to even be injured. Yes even WB. They didn’t simply rule the new world because of their massive crews but they were actually so strong nobody even thought of challenging them. I mean just look now what kind of respect Luffy commands now as an emperor which still isn’t in the same league as the original

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## NotTommy (Dec 26, 2022)

I kinda prefer looking at all these characters as top-tier and judging them by their individual accomplishments rather than as a group and even then, I don't think there's some huge gap between some of them. 

But if I was to group them together, I'd kinda side with the Emperors but I think the Admirals' performances speak for themselves and their position as future significant opponents ensures they won't be left behind.

Aramaki made his standing relative to King and Queen known but Shanks' attack on him left him quite phased. His praise of Yamato's haki and Momo's Boro Breathe demolishing his tree form kinda also portray him as firmly below Kaido in my opinion. 

Him staying away from Wano and fleeing from the Red Hair Pirates is kinda partially due to the strength of the entire organisations and not just the Emperors but Aramaki's reaction to a single attack from Shanks and a single blast from a copy of Kaido kinda make apparent, to me personally, that he isn't near equals to either Kaido or Shanks. 

I have hope though that his performance in his next showings will make clear he isn't drastically behind. He has quite a lot of useful and strong abilities, potentially awakening, and a black blade he hasn't used. 

I feel it's unnecessary to comment on Kizaru too much cause he may face off against Luffy soon so I'll reserve judgement on him till they fight. So far, he's been matched up against vice-captains/number 2's so I think him being below most Emperors wouldn't be a surprise but I think it's unfair to restrict him to that grouping if he brings in feats that are incredibly impressive. I'm really looking forward to see if his speed will be highlighted as a gamechanger against Luffy (Rayleigh managed well enough and Marco clashed with him just fine) or not and his awakening is sure to be amazing.

Akainu proved himself against Whitebeard and his Commanders, he's not to played with by anyone. I feel restricting him is unfair but him ascending to Fleet Admiral has quite a lot of people sorta separate him from his former peers though I feel like Aokiji should get that distinction as well. They were near equals during the timeskip and we haven't seen much from them since and neither seems dreadfully below the Emperors in my opinion. Shanks stopping Akainu will always be a cool moment but I don't think it really highlights his superiority or anything.

Fujitora, like Kizaru, has a busted fruit but doesn't seem to have it portrayed as all that big of a gamechanger. He pulls literal meteors from space and his opponents are astounded right before dealing with them pretty easily. His best feat was cool and definitely a big deal but the fact we got to see Kaido lift a whole island but barely anything from Fuji is a shame. I'm sure he'll show more but so far, I'm not convinced he's super close to Kaido or Shanks.

Teach is Teach. Like Aramaki, he's very expressive and not afraid to bail when things turn south, they're alike in that way. Teach however benefits from having two boss fruits, Aokiji under him (though I'm sure he'll be revealed to have his own agenda) and his role as one of Luffy's final villains. 

Big Mom has some pretty great portrayal like her 3 day fight against Kaido and being the Iron Balloon but her lows are dreadfully low. I don't really scale using lowest showings but Big Mom can be very disappointing at times. Similar to Aramaki though, she has a range of very useful abilities and stuff like amping herself with her lifespan and healing along with the option of forming more homies given the right circumstances makes for a deadly opponent. I wouldn't place all Emperors automatically below all Emperors because while she's amazing, I feel like Akainu and Aokiji kinda hold their own in portrayal and feats. Aramaki, Fujitora and Kizaru might catch up to her though.

Overall a lot of the Admirals have really busted powers but despite not having as flashy abilities, the Emperors seem to be reasonably hyped as well and honestly their hype, on average, seems like some of the best and whenever they clash, they seem to do just fine. I think they're all close-ish but Emperors seem to be hyped more. I also disagree with the notion that being later antagonists means the Admirals'll be stronger when their 1v1's in the final war may not be against Luffy or be under the same circumstances Kaido had ie a gauntlet of foes of ranging abilities to showcase all of his best stuff.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## ShWanks (Dec 26, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> We’ve been over this countless times. Portrayal , hype, feats everything supports the emperors being stronger. I mean it was unthinkable for the old emperors to even be injured. Yes even WB. They didn’t simply rule the new world because of their massive crews but they were actually so strong nobody even thought of challenging them. I mean just look now what kind of respect Luffy commands now as an emperor which still isn’t in the same league as the original


Exactly, Old Great Pirates are built different

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShWanks (Dec 26, 2022)

NotTommy said:


> I kinda prefer looking at all these characters as top-tier and judging them by their individual accomplishments rather than as a group and even then, I don't think there's some huge gap between some of them.
> 
> But if I was to group them together, I'd kinda side with the Emperors but I think the Admirals' performances speak for themselves and their position as future significant opponents ensures they won't be left behind.
> 
> ...


People love trying to act like this isn't the case so they can hype Akainu > Kaido due to fighting a stronger G5 Luffy. That's why they deny Kaido's gauntlet being the reason he lost.

I doubt later G5 Luffy is superior to the Gauntlet that Kaido fought plus a weaker G5 Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Dec 27, 2022)

The best guess we can make is to use the way Oda handled the previous major antagonist (Kaidou and his Goons) since Sabo Truthers aside Pretty obvious Akainu is going to be one of the next major antagonists.

So going off what Oda gave us in Wano. Kaidou’s Top Goons (Calamities) could give the prior major arc antagonist (Katakuri) a tough fight with his absolute Top Goon probably being able to beat Kat. Based on this Akainu’s Top Goons (Admirals) will be able to give Kaidou a good fight, if not beat him in the case of Kizaru. Which was already kind of hinted at since Kizaru was willing to go fight Kaidou or BM; and Akainu said no not because of Kaidou or BM, but because of the potential of the Samurai to add further issues to a battle. Kizaru is also on his way to fight Luffy who just beat Kaidou.

This means the Admirals probably range from BM level to Kaidou level, with Akainu well above that level. 
——
The only chance for this not to be true is if the Seraphim replace Admirals as the Strongest Goons of Akainu. In which case all bets are off, but aside from S-Hawk I doubt any of the Serpahim have the potential to take Top Goon Spot from an Admiral.


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