# Lee & Neji vs Sasori



## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 11, 2013)

Location: Sasori vs Sakura&Chiyo
Knowledge: The leaf ninja know about Sasori's poison. Sasori has no knowledge.
Distance:30M
Mindset: IC but aggressive.
Restrictions: None
Conditions: If Team 11 duo can defeat puppet Sasori hides in. 
                  They face his 100 puppet jutsu after.
                   If they can survive this then they go against his KazeKage Puppet.


Do you think the Tajitsu Duo can beat the Kage Puppeter?


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## RBL (Jun 11, 2013)

sasori is not the great shit...

i mean, he was defeated by chiyo and sakura, and then when he was edo, he was defeated by.... KANKURO 

neji and lee win.


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## Mithos (Jun 11, 2013)

Brandon Lee said:


> sasori is not the great shit...
> 
> i mean, he was defeated by chiyo and sakura, and then when he was edo, he was defeated by.... KANKURO
> 
> neji and lee win.



Chiyo is not only far more powerful than either Lee or Neji, she was also a great person to fight Sasori because of knowledge and experience as a fellow puppeteer. Sakura's ability as a medical ninja made her good support in that match. 

Sasori only lost to Kankurou when he had none of his puppets 

How are Lee and Neji going to deal with Iron Sand? I doubt they can keep dodging it. Especially if Sasori uses this. 

Neji may be able to defend for a time with rotation, but eventually he too will be scratched. Both of them fall to poison.

Sasori wins.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 11, 2013)

Sasori poisons Lee & tires out neji before doin the same to him.

because theres nothing they can do about it.


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## Stermor (Jun 11, 2013)

sasori casually defeated kankuro with only his tail weapon while still in hiruko... 

neji and lee are on similar strnetgh level to kankuro..


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## trance (Jun 11, 2013)

They probably push him out of Hiruko but once he brings out the 3rd, they get stomped.


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## Bonly (Jun 11, 2013)

With the Byakugan Neji will be able to see Sasori inside of Hiruko as well as see all the traps Sasori has in each and every single puppet. With knowledge of poison they would know that one hit can kill them and it will end them. With everything Sasori has going for them, he's generally to much for them. I can only see The leaf duo winning if Lee went gets and manage kill Sasori in one go but thats quite highly unlikely to happen.


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## Stermor (Jun 11, 2013)

Bonly said:


> With the Byakugan Neji will be able to see Sasori inside of Hiruko as well as see all the traps Sasori has in each and every single puppet. With knowledge of poison they would know that one hit can kill them and it will end them. With everything Sasori has going for them, he's generally to much for them. I can only see The leaf duo winning if Lee went gets and manage kill Sasori in one go but thats quite highly unlikely to happen.



kankuro knew those same things.. but he was still casually defeated...


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 11, 2013)

Sasori won't be able to track gated Lee's speed, and wind palm pretty much blows majority of his weapons away, along with dismantling Hiruko. 

Neji immediately realizes there's a heart beneath Hiruko, along with Sasori's puppet body. 



> because theres nothing they can do about it.


Lol, the fucking wank is atrocious. 

One dude deflects Juubi hands with Kaiten, the other can enter the 5th gate and bust concrete.

There's nothing Sasori can do about being blitzed and dismantled when there's a byakugan on the field, and a significantly faster taijutsu specialist.


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## Innerhype (Jun 11, 2013)

Stermor said:


> kankuro knew those same things.. but he was still casually defeated...



Sasori held numerous of advantages at the time that he won't have here for obvious reasons...

With the knowledge of poisons and the _byakugan _revealing things such as Sasori's weak point, the Team Gai duo can take this with high or even medium difficulty.

Lee and Neji both process a great deal more speed and reflexes than Sakura or Chiyo however, even though the duo is being more aggressive than usual *If *they allow_ Iron Sand_ to come out then their chances are reduced significantly.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Lol, the fucking wank is atrocious.
> 
> One dude deflects Juubi hands with Kaiten, the other can enter the 5th gate and bust concrete.
> 
> There's nothing Sasori can do about being blitzed and dismantled when there's a byakugan on the field, and a significantly faster taijutsu specialist.



scans of lee opening gates since his pt.1 surgery? 

deflecting sasoris constant poisoned spam accomplishes what for neji?


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## Innerhype (Jun 11, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> scans of lee opening gates since his pt.1 surgery?



You don't think Lee can release _Hachimon_ after the operation he had to take?



diadora Lotto said:


> deflecting sasoris constant poisoned spam accomplishes what for neji?



It likely leads to an opening which Lee can then exploit aggressively not unlike when Kisame took his eyes from Lee for a split-second and ended up disarmed.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 11, 2013)

Innerhype said:


> You don't think Lee can release _Hachimon_ after the operation he had to take?


 





> ]It likely leads to an opening which Lee can then exploit aggressively not unlike when Kisame took his eyes from Lee for a split-second and ended up disarmed.



kisame isnt a transcendent multi-tasker w/ lolomniscient reflexes :S





> It likely leads to an opening





> It likely leads to...





> _*likely *_





*Spoiler*: __ 



Wishful thinking??


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## bleakwinter (Jun 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Sasori won't be able to track gated Lee's speed,



Lee has only opened the gates once in all of part II, and the instance in which he did open them ended up being completely unimpressive (1). He's relegated largely to his part I gate feats due to the lack thereof in part II. To that regard, most Jonin were easily able to follow Lee's speed when he blitzed Gaara around. 




> and wind palm pretty much blows majority of his weapons away, along with dismantling Hiruko.


Neji's wind palm is quite small, and caused zero damage to Kisame (2). It cannot blow even a fraction of Sasori's weapons away and certainly does not possess the force to destroy Hiruko. 



> Neji immediately realizes there's a heart beneath Hiruko, along with Sasori's puppet body.



Sasori can easily move his heart out of harms way if needed.


> One dude deflects Juubi hands with Kaiten,



He cannot maintain Kaiten forever, as him eventually being mortally wounded from those spikes should clearly indicate. Sasori's arsenal is largely projectile-based. He would fare even worse attempting to use Kaiten on every single projectile in Sasori's arsenal. 



> the other can enter the 5th gate and bust concrete.


Once again he has almost no new feats with the 5th gate since part I.




> There's nothing Sasori can do about being blitzed and dismantled when there's a byakugan on the field, and a significantly faster taijutsu specialist.



What you fail to realize is that both Lee and Neji were tagged and caught by a 30% Kisame's water clones _rather easily_. Sasori is a significantly faster attacker than that incarnation of Kisame. He'd have little difficulty scratching either of them, especially since Lee isn't even inclined to open gates immediately on an opponent he has little knowledge on. He would get scratched before he even considered opening them.


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## Bonly Jr. (Jun 11, 2013)

With the Byakugan Neji will be able to see Sasori inside of Hiruko as well as see all the traps Sasori has in each and every single puppet. With knowledge of poison they would know that one hit can kill them and it will end them. With everything Sasori has going for them, he's generally to much for them. I can only see The leaf duo winning if Lee went gets and manage kill Sasori in one go but thats quite highly unlikely to happen.


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 11, 2013)

> scans of lee opening gates since his pt.1 surgery?


Look above. 



> deflecting sasoris constant poisoned spam accomplishes what for neji?


It accomplishes countering his weapons while Lee speedblitzes. It accomplishes getting behind Sasori and spinning, utterly destroying his puppet. 

Lol@Poisoned spam. The dude's only ranged weapons are needles and gas shot out of summoned bamboo weaponry, both of which Neji sees before they are even loaded. 

-snip-



> Lee has only opened the gates once in all of part II, and the instance in which he did open them ended up being completely unimpressive (1). He's relegated largely to his part I gate feats due to the lack thereof in part II. To that regard, most Jonin were easily able to follow Lee's speed when he blitzed Gaara around.


Unimpressive in what regard? The fact the guy was free falling when he opened them, and couldn't control his speed? Your assessment is utter garbage. Lee's base speed countered that of Haku's mirror jumping speed- which was fast enough to interfere with Kakashi's blitzing speed in both Part 1 and Part 2. You're suggesting 5 Gated Lee would be countered by a fucking stationary puppet master?



> Neji's wind palm is quite small, and caused zero damage to Kisame (2). It cannot blow even a fraction of Sasori's weapons away and certainly does not possess the force to destroy Hiruko.


Are you serious? Hiashi's double-palm deflected a massive Juubi hand. Are you suggesting Neji's is so inferior as to not even deflect simple needles and gas?

Neji's air palm is 1/9 of this devastating attack: [1] [2].

Moreover, spinning near Hiruko alone is enough to destroy the puppet [1]. The fact that he blew a Zetsu apart [1] to me suggests his wind palm can be just as devastating.



> Sasori can easily move his heart out of harms way if needed.


Where is he moving it if his puppet body is destroyed? Will another puppet body suddenly appear as Lee is fucking obliterating the puppet's shell?

Neji sees the heart move. There is NO escape. 



> He cannot maintain Kaiten forever, as him eventually being mortally wounded from those spikes should clearly indicate. Sasori's arsenal is largely projectile-based. He would fare even worse attempting to use Kaiten on every single projectile in Sasori's arsenal.


He jumped into those Mokuton spears to save Hinata, who was trying to save Naruto.

What is going to mortally wound Neji? His fucking kiddie needles? I guess Gated Lee is just fucking sitting around playing with himself while Neji indefinitely spins for the entire battle.



> Once again he has almost no new feats with the 5th gate since part I.


His fucking base feats are more impressive than Sasori's. Sakura was reacting to his speed at the end of the battle- no fucking joke. Gated Lee destroys him without effort, I mean, he fucking runs circles around him. 



> What you fail to realize is that both Lee and Neji were tagged and caught by a 30% Kisame's water clones rather easily. Sasori is a significantly faster attacker than that incarnation of Kisame. He'd have little difficulty scratching either of them, especially since Lee isn't even inclined to open gates immediately on an opponent he has little knowledge on. He would get scratched before he even considered opening them.


Are you suggesting Kisame's clones are slower than Sasori? Are you suggesting Neji and Lee haven't improved?

Sasori is not even close to Kisame's attacking speed. The guy ripped a chakra cloak from a blitzing KN1 Killer Bee in close quarters and dodged a blindsiding raiton infused tree-penetrating pencil. 

He'd have a shit load of difficulty scratching both parties, as one fucking reacts to Juubi palms and deflects it by spinning, and the other one shits on Haku in base and would dismantle Hiruko in a single strike in gates. 

Suggesting Lee doesn't open gates on an opponent he knows is an Akatsuki member and utilizes poison is quite the cluster fuck.

Neji wind palms Hiruko back at start battle, and Lee one-shots with a gated kick. That's all. That's all that happens in this battle.


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## Empathy (Jun 11, 2013)

People seem to forget that Sasori allowed Chiyo to impale him. Sasori defeated Kankuro at the beginning of Part II rather easily with just Hiruko. And honestly, Neji and especially Lee don't have a large assortment of feats since then. Kankuro didn't beat Sasori during the war anymore than the sealing teams who stopped the Sandaime Raikage defeated him. Sasori was in his human form with nothing to use but Shin as a puppet; a guy with tiny sword who shouted warnings before he attacked. The only real feats we've to go on from Lee in the _Tomon_ are from way back in the chuunin exams. 

It's hard to believe Sasori could be remotely threatened from a genin in the chuunin exams. Even if Sasori for some reason couldn't react to Lee based solely on powerscaling, his best attacks failed against Gaara at the chuunin exams. He'd likely smash Sasori apart and release the _Hachimon_, only for Sasori to reassemble himself to the shock of now vulnerable Lee. I don't think Lee, or even Neji with doujutsu, have the feats to react to supersonic attacks like _Satetsu Shigure_. Sasori, the man who killed the strongest Kazekage and integrated his power as his own, would sweep two of the Konoha eleven.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> [1][


 



> E]Lol poisoned spam? In the form of what exactly? Needles and smoke?
> 
> Continue the atrocious wank, please.



becuz not every sasori option has poison on it & isnt a recyclable, inexhaustible, unrelenting threat to the duo.


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## Mithos (Jun 11, 2013)

Innerhype said:


> Sasori held numerous of advantages at the time that he won't have here for obvious reasons...
> 
> With the knowledge of poisons and the _byakugan _revealing things such as Sasori's weak point, the Team Gai duo can take this with high or even medium difficulty.
> 
> Lee and Neji both process a great deal more speed and reflexes than Sakura or Chiyo however, even though the duo is being more aggressive than usual *If *they allow_ Iron Sand_ to come out then their chances are reduced significantly.



What leads you to believe they have better reflexes than Chiyo? Not only is she quick, she has decades of battle experience and is much more skilled as a combatant than either Lee or Neji.


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## Jad (Jun 11, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> What leads you to believe they have better reflexes than Chiyo? Not only is she quick, she has decades of battle experience and is much more skilled as a combatant than either Lee or Neji.



Drunken Lee.

To bad he has no feats in Drunken Gated state. That's the ultimate reflex machine.


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## Puppetry (Jun 11, 2013)

There really isn't much to say. Neji has only occasionally displayed new techniques that have slightly expanded his repertoire?something that strengthened his place among Jōnin but little else?while Lee hasn't done much of anything noteworthy. Regardless, neither of them are capable of dueling the likes of Sasori, particularly for prolonged periods.


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## Innerhype (Jun 11, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> What leads you to believe they have better reflexes than Chiyo? Not only is she quick, she has decades of battle experience and is much more skilled as a combatant than either Lee or Neji.



Oh she quick but she isn't Lee, who while still suffering from injuries avoid  _Tsubaki no Mai _ with his back turned which shows his great and often unaccredited reflexes. Chiyo's battle experience doesn't necessarily equate to skill though but it does play a part in closing or widen a gap in ability.

Rock Lee's lack of appearances in part II is often used against him with the logic that I'm sure you're aware of here but in part I he released the 4th gate and his movement speed increased to beyond supersonic...


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## Cord (Jun 11, 2013)

The circumstances in this match don't favor Neji and Lee any more than Chiyo and Sakura when they took on Sasori. If anything, the only significant thing they have over Sasori's former opponents, is the _Byakugan_. As such would allow them to quickly determine how to permanently take down the enemy since one of them can see through Sasori's weakness. Besides that, there's really nothing else that guarantees them to survive high level attacks considering neither possess any antidotes in this match.

The notion that Neji and Lee would fair better than Chiyo and Sakura simply because they're faster, is unsubstantiated. It would certainly take more than feats and speed to justify that someone of Sasori's caliber is going to be beaten by two Jōnin level characters. Plus you need to have a massive power scaling for Neji and nearly featless Lee to support that. But that can only take you as far, if you're willing to believe that character portrayal tells us they're close to Akatsuki level- especially Sasori's level- which I don't think the mangaka intended them to be.

Although I'm willing to believe that these two would be able eventually destroy Hiruko. But after that, Sasori whips out _Satetsu_ and there's nothing else that Neji and Lee can do past that.


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## Mithos (Jun 11, 2013)

Jad said:


> Drunken Lee.
> 
> To bad he has no feats in Drunken Gated state. That's the ultimate reflex machine.



I still don't put drunken Lee's reflexes on the same level as Chiyo's. 

Chiyo was able to react to all of Sasori's attacks, including being able to react fast enough to protect Sakura at the same time. 

Dodging Kimimarou's strikes in CQC isn't as impressive.



Innerhype said:


> Oh she quick but she isn't Lee, who while still suffering from injuries avoid F_Tsubaki no Mai _ with his back turned which shows his great and often unaccredited reflexes. Chiyo's battle experience doesn't necessarily equate to skill though but it does play a part in closing or widen a gap in ability.
> 
> Rock Lee's lack of appearances in part II is often used against him with the logic that I'm sure you're aware of here but in part I he released the 4th gate and his movement speed increased to beyond supersonic...




I never said Lee doesn't have impressive reflexes. But Chiyo is a legendary ninja, capable of defending herself against attacks by the strongest Kazekage in history.  She wouldn't have survived multiple ninja wars and be hailed as an extremely powerful kunoichi if she wasn't very powerful. 

I view that as far more impressive than the feat you linked to. Especially since if you read on, there are multiple instances that Lee is unable to react and avoid Kimi's attacks. If Lee couldn't avoid getting scratched against Kimi, he's not avoiding getting scratched against Sasori - and a scratch is all that's needed for him to lose.


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## Bonly (Jun 12, 2013)

Stermor said:


> kankuro knew those same things.. but he was still casually defeated...



The fight was off panel. It was never stated that he knew those things or hinted that he did. Also what is the point of this post?


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## Innerhype (Jun 12, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> I never said Lee doesn't have impressive reflexes. But Chiyo is a legendary ninja, capable of defending herself against attacks by the strongest Kazekage in history.  She wouldn't have survived multiple ninja wars and be hailed as an extremely powerful kunoichi if she wasn't very powerful.
> 
> I view that as far more impressive than the feat you linked to. Especially since if you read on, there are multiple instances that Lee is unable to react and avoid Kimi's attacks. If Lee couldn't avoid getting scratched against Kimi, he's not avoiding getting scratched against Sasori - and a scratch is all that's needed for him to lose.



Lee is a master in taijutsu, he specializes in close-combat, a type of combat that have circumstances that can change rapidly and spontaneously and he has been _refined  _peerlessly to operate under these dynamic situations which all but demand high-level reflexes, I'd say it's instrumental. I'm not knocking Chiyo in any way, she does process great skill. I was just stating that when it comes to reflexes and speed the Team Gai duo have to be simply superior in that department due in a large part by nature of their styles.

Well Kimimaro's answer to _Suiken_ is something unique to him and Sasori doesn't have any omnidirectional techniques...


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 12, 2013)

Hmm I made this thread cause I figured this match-up is kinda entertaining.

Neji has a byakugan which provides him with x-ray, microscopic-ish, 360 vision. He's going to see Sasori's real body in his 1st puppet....This hill is over come with little difficulty. Neji can go head on counter all the traps with Kiaten and simply dodge cause he can see it all coming. While Lee in 1st gate smashes the puppet.

The real challenge is The KazeKage Puppet. But Neji's Byakugan shows Sasori's weakness. 

So most agree Sasori using Iron Sand pawns the tajitsu duo wit mid-difficulty due to thier speed.
But an aggressive Lee and Neji will go for Sasori's heart, primarily Lee going 5gates and blitzing Sasori, While Neji serves as support in this fight calling out traps, using Kaiten to defend himself or Lee against Iron sand attacks.


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## bleakwinter (Jun 14, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Unimpressive in what regard? The fact the guy was free falling when he opened them, and couldn't control his speed? Your assessment is utter garbage.



Unimpressive in the fact the all of the Jonin had no problem reading Gated Lee's speed. 



> Lee's base speed countered that of Haku's mirror jumping speed- which was fast enough to interfere with Kakashi's blitzing speed in both Part 1 and Part 2.



This is very weak evidence to suggest that he can avoid Sasori's attacks.Part I Sasuke's speed countered reacted to Haku's mirror jumping speed and he also knocked Haku down in the process ((1),(2), (3). Not only that, but KN1 Naruto had reacted to every single one of Haku's mirror attacks. Both Naruto and Sasuke were Chuunin-level at best at that time, yet avoided Haku's mirror speed. Haku is fast, but not so fast that KN1 Naruto and Part I Sasuke weren't able to react to him. Sasori is an S-ranked Ninja whose attack speed is leagues above KN1 Naruto and Part I Sasuke. 



> You're suggesting 5 Gated Lee would be countered by a fucking stationary puppet master?



How does 5 gated lee penetrate Satetsu's defense considering it was just barely able to bypass Gaara's sand armor? When compacted and solidified, Satetsu withstood punches from Sakura and didn't even crack. If Sasori shields himself with it, then Lee has no means of penetrating it. This is assuming he lives to the point of feeling pressured enough to activate gates. The 30% Kisame water clone was fast enough to be able to trap Lee inside of water prison before he resorted to gates. Now you're suggesting that Sasori cannot eve scratch Lee _once_ before this happen? Lee has almost no knowledge on Sasori. He isn't using gates immediately and is most certainly not going to avoid being scratched before then, given that Sasori can and has scratched Jonin level opponents quite easily. 



> Are you serious? Hiashi's double-palm deflected a massive Juubi hand. Are you suggesting Neji's is so inferior as to not even deflect simple needles and gas?



Neji's air palm was roughly the size of Kisame's entire body. You should be able to deduce that it cannot deflect a gas cloud of this size (4). Air palm can deflect weapons, but as I've stated before, Neji would have to repeatedly spam it which he hasn't shown the ability to do:  "I still can't use Kaiten". Additionally, Hiashi implied that air palm is a poor defense against pin-point attacks, especially when there are many of them  (5) (Something Sasori has plenty of). It was for that reason that Neji had to jump in the way of Naruto to save him rather than using air palm to block the Juubi spikes. 




> Neji's air palm is 1/9 of this devastating attack: [1] [2].



As I've stated before, Neji's air palm was the size of Kisame's body. The size of Hiashi's air palm had made humans seem like ants, by visual comparison. With that said, Neji's air palm being 1/9th the size of Hiashi's is a gross overestimation. 



> Moreover, spinning near Hiruko alone is enough to destroy the puppet



Worse case scenario is that Hiruko gets knocked back. Kaiten has no destructive feats. Out of everything that Kaiten has ever struck on panel (Kunai, Kidoumaru's spiders (6), etc), it has never once obliterated the object, only repelled. Claiming that a durable puppet such as Hiruko is going to be destroyed by an attack that has never destroyed something on panel isn't a plausible at all. 



> [1][/URL]. The fact that he blew a Zetsu apart [1] to me suggests his wind palm can be just as devastating.


As your scan shows, juken full body blow destroyed its target while air palm simply knocked its target away. Air palm is not just as devastating. 

Where is he moving it if his puppet body is destroyed? Will another puppet body suddenly appear as Lee is fucking obliterating the puppet's shell?



> Neji sees the heart move. There is NO escape.


Neji has 360 degree vision, but that doesn't mean he will notice and be able to respond to everything. The white Zetsu that surprised him from behind is a perfect example. 




> What is going to mortally wound Neji? His fucking kiddie needles?



Sasori can scratch him by exploiting Byakugan's blind spot just like Kidoumaru did. Additionally, Sasori can simply stab Neji from behind (Similar to what he would've done to Chiyo (7) if Sakura hadn't gotten in the way of it), poisoning Neji and subsequently numbing his ability to control Chakra, ending the fight because he does not have an antidote. A white zetsu was able to grab Neji from behind. Unless you're suggesting that a white zetsu is faster than Sasori, then Sasori simply repeat onto him what he did to Sakura. Neji also has no answer to Sasori's shower of projectiles, which he cannot defend against with Kaiten forever. Neji couldn't use Kaiten to defend  against Kidumaru's shower of projectiles without at least being scratched by them once. Kaiten is not infinite. 



> guess Gated Lee is just fucking sitting around playing with himself while Neji indefinitely spins for the entire battle.
> 
> His fucking base feats are more impressive than Sasori's. Sakura was reacting to his speed at the end of the battle- no fucking joke. Gated Lee destroys him without effort, I mean, he fucking runs circles around him.



First, you would need to explain to explain how Lee survives without being scratched prior to him finally activating the gates (Since he isn't activating them immediately). Second, you need to explain how gated Lee bypasses Satetsu considering he barely was able to bypass Gaara's sand armor (Gaara was perfectly fine even after the beating as well. He's certainly not killing Sasoeri with brute force alone). Third, you need to explain how he 'runs circles' around Sasori as I've already told you multiple times that all of the Jonin in the Chuunin exam match up had no problem percieving and keeping track of his fifth gated speed. 






> Are you suggesting Kisame's clones are slower than Sasori?



They are. Water clones are only a fraction of the originals power (Both in reflexes and in Chakra level), which is why Part I Sasuke effortlessly took out several of Zabuza's water clones with mere Taijutsu (8) but wouldn't stand a chance against the original. 



> Are you suggesting Neji and Lee haven't improved?


...Since the Kisame fight? Unless you can show me feats, then no. With the exception of full body blow, neither of them have displayed abilities that we didn't already know they had since that point. Part II Lee doesn't even have any true feats with his 5-gates. He's still largely confined to his part I showings because of that fact. 



> Sasori is not even close to Kisame's attacking speed.



The water clone of Kisame was the one that trapped Lee, not the real Kisame. Water clones are only a fraction as powerful as the real user, which is why Part I Sasuke was able to kill multiple of Zabuza's water clones, but obviously would have no chance against the real person. To that regard, Sasori's attack speed is indeed faster than a 30% Kisame's water clone, as his attack speed is capable of striking even Jonin.



> The guy ripped a chakra cloak from a blitzing KN1 Killer Bee in close quarters and dodged a blindsiding raiton infused tree-penetrating pencil.



These are the real Kisame's feats, which are irrelevant in this case since his water clone (Which again, is far inferior to the original) is the one that caught Lee.



> He'd have a shit load of difficulty scratching both parties, as one fucking reacts to Juubi palms and deflects it by spinning,


He cannot use Kaiten forever. Sasori, like Kidoumaru, can simply exploit Byakugan's blind spot (Which he'll figure out by pure observation just like Kidoumaru did) and will just scratch him.





> and the other one shits on Haku in base and would dismantle Hiruko in a single strike in gates.


Part I Sasuke and KN1 Naruto both replicated being able to react to Haku's mirror speed. Gated Lee doesn't have Sakura-level strength. He isn't dismantling Hiruko with his gated punches when he barely broke Gaara's sand armor with it. 




> Suggesting Lee doesn't open gates on an opponent he knows is an Akatsuki member and utilizes poison is quite the cluster fuck.



It's not a "cluster fuck" because that is _exactly_ what happened in manga canon. Lee, Ten-Ten, Gai, and Neji all knew Kisame was an Akatsuki member from the start. Did you see Lee (Or even Gai) opening gates immediately? Of course not. Lee is not magically going to start off in gates against someone just because he knows they're an Akatsuki member as I've already proven. Kisame's water clone subdue's Lee before he opened gates; Sasori will simply emulate this.



> Neji wind palms Hiruko back at start battle, and Lee one-shots with a gated kick. That's all. That's all that happens in this battle.



Gaara's sand armor protected Gaara from any real harm against Lee's gated kicks. It's not going to kill Sasori, someone who can survive even Sakura's punches and re-attatch himself effortlessly (9).


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 14, 2013)

bleakwinter said:


> Unimpressive in the fact the all of the Jonin had no problem reading Gated Lee's speed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gated Lee not beating Garra was PIS. Gated Lee not destroying garra's sand skin is also PiS....,,,This is shown when Non gated Sasuke fights Garra and does more damage than lee......

Behind getting his back taken by a Zetsu clone, is embarrassing considering his dojutsu, but still he was fighting a war.....Oo and only way for Saspo to find Neji's blind spot he would have to hit him after his kiaten spin. Sasori would be wastin precious time trying to take advantage of that.

And Lee does use his gates fast in this fight. That's why I said aggressive mindset. Lee and Neji face off against an Akatsuki member that can murk them with poison, or simply hi own skill....The duo are fighting Turnt up from the beginning.


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## Soul (Jun 14, 2013)

Sasori destroys this two with virtually no difficulty.
They won't even get past Hiruko, since they have no knowledge of the traps that Hiruko has.

Even assuming that they do, they can't compete with the Sandaime Kazekage or Aka Higi; they are vastly outmatched here.

I can't believe this is being discussed.



Bonly said:


> With the Byakugan Neji will be able to see Sasori inside of Hiruko



No big deal, he will only see a man inside.



> as well as see all the traps Sasori has in each and every single puppet.



The traps don't have chakra within them, Sasori activates them with his own chakra when he needs to do so.



> With knowledge of poison they would know that one hit can kill them and it will end them.



That doesn't mean they know the mechanics of the attacks, nor that they can dodge.



DaVizWiz said:


> Sasori won't be able to track gated Lee's speed



He doesn't needs to, he can use traps to protect himself and poison Lee.
Hiruko would be destroyed, and Sasori might get punched, but this won't make a difference, as Sasori has shown to be impervious to that kind of damage (Sakura's punch should be, at least, equal to Lee's).

Also, The mindset is In Character; Lee won't be using gates.



> and wind palm pretty much blows majority of his weapons away



Assuming he can react to the attacks, which was noted as unpredictable and dangerous.



> along with dismantling Hiruko.



Chiyo said that she had nothing to destroy Hiruko, even when she had Sanbou Kyuukai (an attack that's pretty much like Neji's) + Shiro Higi.

I don't see Neji destroying it as easily as you seem to think.



> Neji immediately realizes there's a heart beneath Hiruko, along with Sasori's puppet body.



How, exactly?
Human puppets still have chakra, that's the beauty of them.

Neji shouldn't notice a difference.



Cordelia said:


> If anything, the only significant thing they have over Sasori's former opponents, is the _Byakugan_. As such would allow them to quickly determine how to permanently take down the enemy since one of them can see through Sasori's weakness.



As I said before, human puppets were stated to contain chakra, and Sasori stated that it is his own body, meaning he is using his body as a human puppet.


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## Soul (Jun 14, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> scans of lee opening gates since his pt.1 surgery?



Here you go.

Edit: One more.



Jad said:


> Drunken Lee.
> 
> To bad he has no feats in Drunken Gated state. That's the ultimate reflex machine.



I don't think he has the level of concentration while drunk to open gates and use them efficiently.


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## Bonly (Jun 14, 2013)

Soul said:


> No big deal, he will only see a man inside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What's your point here? Assuming you read all of my post you would know that I think Sasori wins. Also I listed facts of what they could do, your opinion of whether or not its a big deal or not and what not doesn't really matter as it doesn't change the fact that they can see the traps.


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## Soul (Jun 14, 2013)

Bonly said:


> What's your point here? Assuming you read all of my post you would know that I think Sasori wins. Also I listed facts of what they could do, your opinion of whether or not its a big deal or not and what not doesn't really matter as it doesn't change the fact that they can see the traps.



My point is that they can not see the traps, as the traps don't have chakra within them.
Why do you think that Neji can see them?


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## Bonly (Jun 14, 2013)

Soul said:


> My point is that they can not see the traps, as the traps don't have chakra within them.
> Why do you think that Neji can see them?



Quick question but are you trolling or are you serious?


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## Soul (Jun 14, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Quick question but are you trolling or are you serious?



You got me.


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## Cord (Jun 14, 2013)

Soul said:


> As I said before, human puppets were stated to contain chakra, and Sasori stated that it is his own body, meaning he is using his body as a human puppet.



Yeah, I support that idea as well. The thing is, the Byakugan is not limited unto seeing chakra only. The color (or the other components) and perhaps, even the movement radiating in Sasori's core will be made apparent to the Byakugan's telescopic and x-ray like sight.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 14, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Quick question but are you trolling or are you serious?



LOL I think he is.



Soul said:


> My point is that they can not see the traps, as the traps don't have chakra within them.
> Why do you think that Neji can see them?




The byakugan can gives its users almost 360o vision, microscopic like vision able to see tenketsu points and the chakra network, the color of chakra, sight over vast distances and X-ray vision.

So explain why with x-ray vision can he not see Hiruko's traps.

And again They are being aggressive against an Akatsuki member. Why wouldn't Lee blitz with gates with knowledge of poison.


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## Soul (Jun 14, 2013)

Cordelia said:


> Yeah, I support that idea as well. The thing is, the Byakugan is not limited unto seeing chakra only. The color (or the other components) and perhaps, even the movement radiating in Sasori's core will be made apparent to the Byakugan's telescopic and x-ray like sight.



Fair enough.



KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> The byakugan can gives its users almost 360o vision, microscopic like vision able to see tenketsu points and the chakra network, the color of chakra, sight over vast distances and X-ray vision.
> 
> So explain why with x-ray vision can he not see Hiruko's traps.







> And again They are being aggressive against an Akatsuki member. Why wouldn't Lee blitz with gates with knowledge of poison.



I already accounted for a case in which he uses gates; I am just saying it's OoC to start with gates.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 14, 2013)

Soul said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lee Ooc opened the 1st gate against Sauke part 1.
Going 5gates is OOc straight off the bat, opening 1 to bust Hiruko ain't.


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## Soul (Jun 14, 2013)

KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> Lee Ooc opened the 1st gate against Sauke part 1.
> Going 5gates is OOc straight off the bat, opening 1 to bust Hiruko ain't.



Emotional issues made him do it, that doesn't mean it is a normal course of action against a stranger; there is a reason why he apologized immediately after he was caught by Gai's summon.


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## Jad (Jun 14, 2013)

Soul said:


> Here you go.
> 
> Edit: One more.
> 
> ...



Not if he masters it, at that point he can use the Drunken fist at whim. Something like "Tiger drinks from waterfall" (I heard that from somewhere, can't remember) or something. You pretend to drink sake before the match. Although, fiction dictates the more you get drunker, the stronger you get 

I also believe honestly, Drunken Style is Lee's way to surpass Gai. If he surpasses Gai, than I for sure believe he can solo Sasori (but that's a long shot, until we something from him in the manga).


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## Innerhype (Jun 14, 2013)

Jad said:


> Not if he masters it, at that point he can use the Drunken fist at whim. Something like "Tiger drinks from waterfall" (I heard that from somewhere, can't remember) or something. You pretend to drink sake before the match. Although, fiction dictates the more you get drunker, the stronger you get
> 
> I also believe honestly, Drunken Style is Lee's way to surpass Gai. If he surpasses Gai, than I for sure believe he can solo Sasori (but that's a long shot, until we something from him in the manga).



Hey hey!

That sounds like something from from Jackie Chan's "The Legend Of Drunken Master." 

It'll be awesome if Lee too could switch to _Suiken _ at will, it's something I foreseen a long time ago will happen at some point.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 15, 2013)

Soul said:


> Emotional issues made him do it, that doesn't mean it is a normal course of action against a stranger; there is a reason why he apologized immediately after he was caught by Gai's summon.



Yea, your a troll.


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## Mithos (Jun 15, 2013)

Innerhype said:


> Lee is a master in taijutsu, he specializes in close-combat, a type of combat that have circumstances that can change rapidly and spontaneously and he has been _refined  _peerlessly to operate under these dynamic situations which all but demand high-level reflexes, I'd say it's instrumental. I'm not knocking Chiyo in any way, she does process great skill. I was just stating that when it comes to reflexes and speed the Team Gai duo have to be simply superior in that department due in a large part by nature of their styles.
> 
> Well Kimimaro's answer to _Suiken_ is something unique to him and Sasori doesn't have any omnidirectional techniques...



Yes their styles require good reflexes. But being taijutsu specialists doesn't put them above Chiyo in reaction/evasive ability. The gap in experience and ability as a ninja is too great.  

Part I Neji is a taijutsu specialist, but his reactions are nowhere near Chiyo's for obvious reasons. Neji and Lee are average Jounin level, it seems. We've never seen anything from them, or been told anything, that suggests they can defend against the _strongest Kazekage in history_'s attacks. 

I will say that they probably have better mobility than her. But that doesn't matter if they can't react to and anticipate Sasori's attacks like she could.


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## Soul (Jun 15, 2013)

KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> Yea, you're a troll.



That last one wasn't trolling; he used it against Sasuke to prove his superiority over him. To prove that, with hard work, you can surpass a genius.

Remember that the manga had a plot in part I.


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## betterthanu33 (Jun 16, 2013)

Neji-non factor
Lee-non factor
Gated lee-huge factor
Sasori-huge factor

Neji gets killes quickly and easily by sasori
lee realizes sasori is strong and thinks o shit i gotta do somthin
Lee goes gates and attacks hiruko which breaks. Lee then breaks and seemingly kills sasori.
Lee turns around and ungates himself and crys over neji
sasori puts his puppet body back and cuts of lees head then fixes hiruko like no big deal


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## Hiruko2425 (Jun 17, 2013)

I think Lee and Neji will be able to destroy Hiruko with relative ease if Lee goes 5th Gate, but with the 100 puppets it is going to be ridiculously hard not to be scratched. I think one of them will be scratched and when one is down with poison there is no way the other can handle iron sand for awhile. Eventually Sasori picks them off with poison and wins.


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## Whirl (Jul 20, 2013)

Most seem to neglect the fact the Neji is comfortably capable of evading projectiles if necessary, or deflecting them with superficial amounts of chakra, as demonstrated during his fight with Kidomaru.  This means, his Rotation wouldn't' be their only preventative. 
Conversely, it would benefit them in situations that limited their mobility, or involved massive gluts of iron sand.  Otherwise, their reliance on it is  unnecessary and unrealistic.


Air Palm, collectively, has halted building-sized wooden bullets (Jyubi Hands), deflected large wooden spears (Juibi wood), and contributed to an explosion that instantly suppressed  thousands of Zetsu.  

Hinata, independently, deflected a large wooden spear.  While this isn't significant when used against innumerable shards of iron, it should be taken into account that Neji is appreciably her superior, and is the "Genius" of the Hyuga Clan. His 'current' Air Palm IS vastly stronger than hers , and would be useful against Iron Sand attacks. 

Lee's Gated strikes are impossibly fast. It's ludicrous that someone would attempt to argue for a sluggish wooden puppet, and a primary one that Sakura could sloppily intercept. 
Without his Iron Sand defenses, Neji and Lee would be terrible overkill. 

What's he going to do, spray fire and water slower characters could easily avoid, lunge at Neji's pretty swirling chakra and be brutalized by his own velocity against the impenetrable technique? 


Neji's defenses are perfect against Sasori, as are Lee's offenses. 


Ha, don't forget Neji's Jyuken strikes in his younger years delivered his opponent through a tree with the girth of a small room. 
This is self-explanatory. 

Sakura and Chiyo struggled against Sasori because they couldn't discern his traps like Neji would be able to, deflect his attacks easily and serve as diversions like Neji would be able to, or summon ubiquitous speed instantly like Lee would be able to.  

The only reason they weren't mutilated was Chiyo's many advanced puppets.


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