# Adult Naruto vs Adult Sasuke



## Larry (Aug 15, 2015)

Also Naruto is not rusty in this fight like he is in the movie gg 

Area: Where they faught before Shippuden

Distance: 50m

Knowledge: Full

Restrictions: None


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## Bonly (Aug 16, 2015)

I don't know fully know much both improved over the next few years but I'd assume it could go either way


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 16, 2015)

...only Naruto's _battle sense_ was rusty in Gaiden. But his power was unaffected. Naruto most likely wins, Sasuke is on his level but would be a little weaker.


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## sanninme rikudo (Aug 16, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...only Naruto's _battle sense_ was rusty in Gaiden. But his power was unaffected. Naruto most likely wins, Sasuke is on his level but would be a little weaker.


This. 

While he's fighting Sasuke, his usually mindset and battle proficiency will come back to him, as his touch is something he can't lose, especially when considering he fought effectively throughout a whole war, while constantly besting his opponents. 

Moreover, when he regains his original style and attributes, Sasuke is done for.


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## Larry (Aug 17, 2015)

Idk why people think Sasuke is stronger than Naruto, just look at SuperSaiyaMan12's sig lel.


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## Raiken (Aug 17, 2015)

I'd say Adult Naruto and Sasuke are roughly equals, so Naruto can match EMS/Tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke with 100% BSM probably.

I wonder how the scaling goes since Sasuke now has Ashura Chakra boosting his Base stats compared to before...

I'd say before their revival:

Base Naruto >> Base Sasuke
Base Naruto = 3TS Sasuke
SM Naruto >> 3TS Sasuke
SM Naruto < EMS Sasuke
50% KCM Naruto = EMS Sasuke
50% BM Naruto >> EMS Sasuke
50% BM+SM Naruto >>> EMS Sasuke

The Last onwards:

Base Naruto = Base Sasuke
Base Naruto < 3TS Sasuke
SM Naruto > 3TS Sasuke
SM Naruto < 3TS/1-RG Sasuke
100% KCM Naruto > 3TS/1-RG Sasuke
100% KCM Naurto < EMS Sasuke
100% KCM+SM Naruto = EMS Sasuke
100%-Synced KCM+SM Naruto > EMS Sasuke   "What Naruto used against Toneri."
100% BSM Naruto >>> EMS Sasuke   "What Naruto uses in the Gaiden and Boruto movie."
100% BSM Naruto >> EMS/1-RG
100% BSM Naruto = EMS/TRG Sasuke


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## Altair21 (Aug 17, 2015)

They're equal. That's all there is to it. Naruto has a 50/50 shot and Sasuke has a 50/50 shot.


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

Naruto wins mid difficult at most.

Sasuke needs all the Bijuu to stand a chance against Narudo (who's drained and unwilling to kill Sasuke) who only had 50% of Kurama.









*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __


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## Altair21 (Aug 17, 2015)

Just stop Hussain. 

1. This is Adult Naruto vs Adult Sasuke, not teen Sasuke vs teen Naruto.
2. 





> The survivor of the Uchiha clan who is endowed with the kekkei-genkai, 'Sharingan'. When he was a boy, he walked in the darkness of shinobi as an avenger. But after he faught Naruto to the death, he achieved reconciliation. Possessing the 'Sharingan' and 'Rinnegan', *he's a strong man who currently ranks equal to Naruto*, and protects the future of the ninja world.



Of course what will come next is more denial.


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

Altair21 said:


> Just stop Hussain.
> 
> 1. This is Adult Naruto vs Adult Sasuke, not teen Sasuke vs teen Naruto.
> 2.
> ...



1- How is that relevant?
2- Read the OP


> Also Naruto is not rusty in this fight like he is in the movie gg


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## Altair21 (Aug 17, 2015)

Hussain said:


> 1- How is that relevant?
> 2- Read the OP



Implying what? Rust has nothing to do with his raw power and he was never more skilled than Sasuke anyway. Not to mention absolutely nothing indicates he's even rusty in the movie. 

And if we're removing handicaps then how about we give Sasuke back his left arm because I'm pretty sure that's a much bigger deal than any rust or are the tinted glasses only pointing in one direction?  

But go ahead and make more excuses Hussain. 

Fact is at the end of the day the two are equal. Deal with it.


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

Altair21 said:


> Implying what? Rust has nothing to do with his raw power and he was never more skilled than Sasuke anyway. Not to mention absolutely nothing indicates he's even rusty in the movie.
> 
> And if we're removing handicaps then how about we give Sasuke back his left arm because I'm pretty sure that's a much bigger deal than any rust or are the tinted glasses only pointing in one direction?
> 
> ...



Not sure if serious or trolling. 
Look at Tsunade for example. She is a sannin, but when she stopped fighting for years, she was struggling with someone from Kabuto's level! (in part 1). 

- The movie takes place after few months from the Gaiden. There was no threats or anything like that to fight, and we see Narudo 24/7 doing his job as a Hokage. There is nothing to indicate he got time for anything else. That's the whole point of the movie, and that's why Bolt is pissed off! 

- Not sure how is that "much bigger deal" when the guy can use his attacks with 1 hands, and he has
Asura path to give him at least 4 extra arms if he needed to. Or as the movie showed, he can use the
Susanoo arm as well.  

- Not even Sasuke believe in that nonsense. 
As he declared that Narudo has always been ahead of him. 

So, let me say this
you think for example Sasuke's power is 50, and Naruto's power is 50
but then when we add all 9 Bijuus power to Sasuke, it stays 50?

and when we take all 9 Bijuus from him, and give another half of Kurama to Narudo
they stay 50?

On another words, you believe the Bijuus power is a non-factor?


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## Altair21 (Aug 17, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Not sure if serious or trolling.
> Look at Tsunade for example. She is a sannin, but when she stopped fighting for years, she was struggling with someone from Kabuto's level! (in part 1).
> 
> - The movie takes place after few months from the Gaiden. There was no threats or anything like that to fight, and we see Narudo 24/7 doing his job as a Hokage. There is nothing to indicate he got time
> ...



1. Tsunade's skill declined, not her power. She was still just as strong as ever. So yes, my statement stands. Rust has nothing to do with raw power and Naruto was never as skilled as Sasuke anyway. 

2. That's not in anyway proof that he's still rusty in the movie. Either provide proof or this is no longer a discussion.

3. So what if he can use attacks with one hand. He'd just be that much more efficient if he had two. That's flat out common sense. No matter how good a basketball player in a wheelchair is, he'd just be that much better if he had the use of his legs. 

4. The fact is they're equal. Deny it all you want. It's a fact and it's not changing. 

Of course I know arguing with you about this is futile because you're never objective when it comes to Sasuke, but I don't have to because it's flat out stated that Naruto and Sasuke are equal regardless of how much you deny it. 

So have a nice day.


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

> =Altair21;54189085]1. Tsunade's skill declined, not her power. She was still just as strong as ever. So yes, my statement stands. Rust has nothing to do with raw power and Naruto was never as skilled as Sasuke anyway.


Skills are important. That's why Shin kicked their asses, and why Kurama criticised him. Just like
Zetsu said (paraphrasing I suppose) a skilled Ninja who throws stones, will be superior to one who
uses shurkins without skills (again, not the exact words).

And I don't know from where you came up with Narudo never been as skilled to be honest.  



> 2. That's not in anyway proof that he's still rusty in the movie. Either provide proof or this is no longer a discussion.


you are the one who needs a proof sweetheart. We got Kurama's statement that he is rusty. You says he is not anymore. Where is your proof that he is not anymore? Because your only basing that on your own believes. You neither gave a statement, nor did you even state why do you think so.

It's you saying he is not, just because...  



> 3. So what if he can use attacks with one hand. He'd just be that much more efficient if he had two. That's flat out common sense. No matter how good a basketball player in a wheelchair is, he'd just be that much better if he had the use of his legs.


As I said, he has those arms via the Susanoo or Asura Path. Point stands.  
Not to mention his fighting style is based on his eyes power which does not need another arm anyway. 



> 4. The fact is they're equal. Deny it all you want. It's a fact and it's not changing.


Except your opinion is not a fact honey. 
this IS a fact that is not changing
1

Don't mix the 2 things together. 

btw, what do you think of the "FACT" that Sasuke is not Darui's level with lightning? 


> Unparalleled Lightning Release power!






> Of course I know arguing with you about this is futile because you're never objective when it comes to Sasuke, but I don't have to because it's flat out stated that Naruto and Sasuke are equal regardless of how much you deny it.


If that makes you sleep at night. 



> So have a nice day.


u too!


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## Altair21 (Aug 17, 2015)

Yes, because this is certainly an opinion. 



> The survivor of the Uchiha clan who is endowed with the kekkei-genkai, 'Sharingan'. When he was a boy, he walked in the darkness of shinobi as an avenger. But after he faught Naruto to the death, he achieved reconciliation. Possessing the 'Sharingan' and 'Rinnegan', *he's a strong man who currently ranks equal to Naruto*, and protects the future of the ninja world.








Just thought I'd get that one in before leaving considering you never were all that bright and that statement just exemplifies it even more. 

But hey, what can you do when someone denies straight up facts?


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

Did not deny that he is equal to rusty Narudo. 



> But hey, what can you do when someone denies straight up facts?


I agree.


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## Altair21 (Aug 17, 2015)

Just like Naruto is equal to a one-handed Sasuke.


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

Sure. 
Rusty Narudo (who got 1 shotted by Hima) = 1 handed Sasuke.  
I am glad we finally agreed, who would have thought! 

btw, you did not answer me of what you think of Darui
being superior to Sasuke in lightning release.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 17, 2015)

Flat out said they are equal. Why even go into a dispute about that is beyond me. It's set in stone and not worth a debate. Note, I'm not saying that about the thread, just the "are they equal" mini debate.

As far as feats goes, Sasuke's strength and speed alone were on par with him in his Rikudo BSM, got Kage Bunshins, and that dimension hopping that may or may not be a gamechanger depending on how it works. Also with mastered Rinne, all the nukes should be nullified by Preta.


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> Flat out said they are equal. Why even go into a dispute about that is beyond me. It's set in stone and not worth a debate. Note, I'm not saying that about the thread, just the "are they equal" mini debate.
> 
> As far as feats goes, Sasuke's strength and speed alone were on par with him in his Rikudo BSM, got Kage Bunshins, and that dimension hopping that may or may not be a gamechanger depending on how it works. Also with mastered Rinne, all the nukes should be nullified by Preta.



Because the manga stated and showed that Narudo is stronger. However, Narudo got weaker over the years (he got 1-shotted by Hima), and sasuke only "*currently*" is equal to him. I.E when he got weaker. 

It's nice to take the statements as they are, but try to not make them general when they are not. 

- Preta will turn him into stone tho with SM.


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## Altair21 (Aug 17, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> Flat out said they are equal. Why even go into a dispute about that is beyond me. It's set in stone and not worth a debate. Note, I'm not saying that about the thread, just the "are they equal" mini debate.



It's Hussain. Not even worth taking seriously. 



> As far as feats goes, Sasuke's strength and speed alone were on par with him in his Rikudo BSM, got Kage Bunshins, and that dimension hopping that may or may not be a gamechanger depending on how it works. Also with mastered Rinne, all the nukes should be nullified by Preta.



Indeed. Sauce has become quite a beast since his younger days.


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## ARGUS (Aug 17, 2015)

Naruto wins mid diff at the very most, and even that is being generous, 
inb4 some clown tries to bring the same excuse that they are equal when feats and scaling compeltely nullify that 

as said by someone above, narutos battle sense being rusty doesnt mean in anyway shape or form that his power has dropped, which is completely dumb when we consider the fact that naruto actually gained another half of kyuubi, has had his chakra developed, and has retained his same powers that his previous self had, 

sasuke on the other hand doesnt have the bijuus under his command now, meaning no BPS, which then equates to the normal PS being his full power, which gets defeated by a regular RSM avatar, let alone a full kurama RSM avatar, let alone the ashura avatar, 
sasukes chakra being developed would never result to it being strong enough to cover the gap between PS and BPS,  

rinnegan mastery of six path jutsus do absolutely nothing here, and openning the kaguya portals is not doing shit when naruto has the means to react and couunter them just fine, not to mention that sasuke doesnt even have the chakra capacity to use amenominaka like kaguya does

with that being said, naruto shits on him, 

 -- PS slashes are lol blocked much easier than how they were in canon, and a PS chidorii which is the strongest thing he could dish  out was equivalent to regular RSM half kuramaas TBB *at best* and that is not doing shit to naruto here, 

 -- Amenotejikaras attack gets blocked just how it did in canon, 

 -- Kurama avatar clones each firing off stronger BDRS and TBB does heavy damage to sasukes PS and eventually busts it open especially when only 2 of them were enough to shrug off part of his PS, Flash TBB can be fired off with utmost ease and each of them again does heavy damage to his PS,which offensively cant do shit and can be outnumbered and vastly outclassed in firepower 

 -- If naruto absorbs the nature energy and gains the ashura avatar then the attack he had at VOTE one shots considering how large the gap between PS and BPS reallly was,


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Naruto wins mid diff at the very most, and even that is being generous,
> inb4 some clown tries to bring the same excuse that they are equal when feats and scaling compeltely nullify that



The funny part is they have NEVER been equal *at the same time*. It's either Narudo is the stronger one, or Sasuke is the stronger one. Not once in the manga they were equal at the exact same moment! 

and you get some people who think the Bijuu's power is not a factor at all. With or without them, the power remain the same!


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## ARGUS (Aug 17, 2015)

Hussain said:


> The funny part is they have NEVER been equal *at the same time*. It's either Narudo is the stronger one, or Sasuke is the stronger one. Not once in the manga they were equal at the exact same moment!
> 
> and you get some people who think the Bijuu's power is not a factor at all. With or without them, the power remain the same!



yep i could agree with that, its either one way or the other, 
but ever since naruto gained KCM and perfect SM, he has always been superior to sasuke 

Lol the bijuus were a clear factor, its what made sasuke achieve a power where he could fight on par with naruto, 
if they had no affect than why even capture them? 

thats like saying ems madara w/o kyuubi > Hashirama, dumbest shit to possibly say 

and thanks for the rep man,



			
				Cyrorex said:
			
		

> 50% KCM Naruto = EMS Sasuke


Lol no way, EMS Sasuke at full power is well above KCM naruto, 
BSM naruto > BM Naruto >> EMS Sasuke >> KCM naruto


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## Raiken (Aug 17, 2015)

Hussain said:


> The funny part is they have NEVER been equal *at the same time*. It's either Narudo is the stronger one, or Sasuke is the stronger one. Not once in the manga they were equal at the exact same moment!
> 
> and you get some people who think the Bijuu's power is not a factor at all. With or without them, the power remain the same!



Actually, there's been a couple of times where they have been roughly equal.
"I'm not including Summoning Jutsu or Sasuke's 9 Bijuu at VotE2."

VotE1: Equal (1 Tail V1 Cloak Naruto - CS2+3TS Sasuke)

Kage Summit End: Equal (SM Naruto - MS Sasuke)

Early-Mid War: Equal (50% KCM Naruto - EMS Sasuke)

699 onwards: Equal (100% BSM - EMS/Tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke)

Maybe Adult Naruto is slightly stronger than Adult Sasuke, but it wouldn't be by much.


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> yep i could agree with that, its either one way or the other,
> *but ever since naruto gained KCM and perfect SM, he has always been superior to sasuke
> *
> Lol the bijuus were a clear factor, its what made sasuke achieve a power where he could fight on par with naruto,
> ...



I agree. The bold leads us to another funny part about those who keep whining "Equuuuuuuuuaaaaal"

When Narudo first gain his KCM, they insist that Sasuke (EMS) and Narudo are equal.
Naruto then gain his BM, and Sasuke did not do anything yet, but he got an upgrade of his fans
all of a sudden  instead of equal to KCM, he is equal to BM Narudo now.

Then Narudo gained his BSM (and Sasuke was jealous of him), but they kept saying "NOOOO, oh MY. GOD! they are equal! "

then they gained Hago's power, and despite Narudo's clearly superior performance, they kept whining about how equal they are!  


Even tho anyone who has a brain that function knows they couldn't have been equal all along, when Sasuke needed all 9 Bijuu to stand to Narudo who's holding back! 


& Sorry, just want to get that off my chest. 



> and thanks for the rep man,


NP!


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## Trojan (Aug 17, 2015)

Cryorex said:


> Actually, there's been a couple of times where they have been roughly equal.
> "I'm not including Summoning Jutsu or Sasuke's 9 Bijuu at VotE2."
> 
> VotE1: Equal (1 Tail V1 Cloak Naruto - CS2+3TS Sasuke)
> ...



Summons are part of the summoner power.

Sasuke won that fight (regardless of Narudo not using his summon)

Zetsu claimed that SM Narudo is stronger. And just so we don't get "He got his Susanoo later)
we saw that Narudo's SM was much stronger as well from what he showed against Kurama.



> Chapter 453: Show
> Suigetsu: This Naruto fellow defeated Pain all by himself?
> Zetsu: That's right he has become extremely strong...In fact I think he is stronger than Sasuke right now.
> Tobi: Thus even if Sasuke surpasses Nagato, it is completely meaningless if we can't control him. So I have no intention of linking him to the Gedo Statue any time soon. I think it would be wiser to just keep an eye on him.



- No. Sasuke was being schooled by Kabuto, and even itachi did a better job. Heck, itachi himself
stated that Narudo can beat Sasuke with that power
1

- No. Sasuke needed the 9 Bijuus to fight a drained/holding back Naruto and he lost while Narudo
was using 50% of Kurama. No idea from where you came with those honestly.

again
when Narudo got SM, Zetsu said he is stronger than Sasuke
when he showed KCM, itachi said he does not need Shisui's eye to defeat Sasuke
when Sasuke saw his BSM he was angry because Narudo was ahead of him

and so on. What you said is what you think it is. Not how the manga showed to us/stated.


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## Raiken (Aug 17, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Lol no way, EMS Sasuke at full power is well above KCM naruto,
> BSM naruto > BM Naruto >> EMS Sasuke >> KCM naruto


There's nothing to say KCM Naruto couldn't match EMS Sasuke.

They were constantly being compared and paralleled to each other.
As soon as Naruto went BM, Sasuke got all jealous while Naruto took centre stage and left Sasuke behind.
Sasuke was only later able to keep up with BM Naruto thanks to the 100% Kyuubi Chakra Cloak he later gained.
Also Sasuke's PS is featless, so at most you could give him a Full Body V4 Susano'o.

Something I've noticed is that all MS/EMS users have only ever showed up to V4 Susano'o w/o Kurama and all users of PS w/o Kurama have had Ashura Chakra.
Something to consider... but it's not fair to give EMS Sasuke Perfect Susano'o, are you going to give him Rinnegan Madara's PS feats? Erm... no

If Sasuke had PS w/o fusing with Kurama, he would have used it when BSM Naruto went to fight JJ Obito.
And he used the V3 over the V4, because V4 has more defence and power, but the V3 has greater speed and mobility.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 17, 2015)

Havent watched the movies yet, but if both Naruto and Sasuke remained with their powersets, then Naruto is well above Sasuke, who doesnt have access to other Bijuu's.


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## Blu-ray (Aug 17, 2015)

Are you people really debating their history of strength comparison and "they've never been equal"crap? What relevance does that have here

That they're equal isn't a fanboy's shrieks. It's something written down in black and white.



Hussain said:


> Because the manga stated and showed that Narudo is stronger. However, Narudo got weaker over the years (he got 1-shotted by Hima), and sasuke only "*currently*" is equal to him. I.E when he got weaker.
> 
> It's nice to take the statements as they are, but try to not make them general when they are not.


The manga didn't say or show anything pertaining to their adult selves, aside from Naruto saying there was no better Shinobi than Sasuke, himself included.

Hima one shotting Naruto was a gag and you know it. It's intellectual dishonesty to twist and contort things even though the context is clear.

Naruto didn't get weaker, his battle sense only went down. He got the other half of Kurama, so he's significantly stronger than he was in the past.



> he's a strong man who currently ranks equal to Naruto


That's a straight forward statement. What about that isn't "general?" It's no different than the description saying he has Rinnegan and Sharingan.


> - Preta will turn him into stone tho with SM.


It'll give him Naruto's Sage mode ala Madara.



ARGUS said:


> Naruto wins mid diff at the very most, and even that is being generous,
> inb4 some clown tries to bring the same excuse that they are equal when feats and scaling compeltely nullify that



Imma have to be that clown, cause Sasuke having speed and strength of Naruto's callibre also shits on scaling, yet it's a thing.



> sasuke on the other hand doesnt have the bijuus under his command now, meaning no BPS, which then equates to the normal PS being his full power, which gets defeated by a regular RSM avatar, let alone a full kurama RSM avatar, let alone the ashura avatar,


Can't really contest this but at the same time...



> sasukes chakra being developed would never result to it being strong enough to cover the gap between PS and BPS,


The same could be said for Sasuke having physical strength and speed on par with Rikudo BSM Naruto.

If his chakra grew to the point crossing Kaguya's dimensions is now possible, nothing is holding him back.



> rinnegan mastery of six path jutsus do absolutely nothing here, and openning the kaguya portals is not doing shit when naruto has the means to react and couunter them just fine, not to mention that sasuke doesnt even have the chakra capacity to use amenominaka like kaguya does
> 
> with that being said, naruto shits on him,



Using Ameno to shift him to the other side would render dodging moot, but I'm not gonna get into that fanfic territory, at least not until I see how that thing works.

I don't see how master six paths jutsus does nothing. Preta Path alone, would render nukes ineffective, though people assume it can't absorb shit nowadays for some reason.



> -- PS slashes are lol blocked much easier than how they were in canon, and a PS chidorii which is the strongest thing he could dish  out was equivalent to regular RSM half kuramaas TBB *at best* and that is not doing shit to naruto here,
> 
> -- Amenotejikaras attack gets blocked just how it did in canon,
> 
> ...



Can't say much about how the physical bout would go down especially when the natural energy is taken. As for the nuke spamming though, I will say Preta is a thing, and I will say this this isn't VOTE 2 where he only got the ability to use it when nuke spamming was over, and even then incapable of utilizing it and Jutsu at the same time.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Zef (Aug 17, 2015)

I'll just leave these here.




Go ahead, argue against manga facts


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## Altair21 (Aug 17, 2015)

I'll just leave this here.

Movie spoilers in link below: 


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]S11-nf1zxbA[/YOUTUBE]




11:40

Speed and strength on par with Naruto. Actually Sasuke's speed was shown to be greater. 

But yea, Naruto's certainly much stronger. 

People keep going by their teen years as if that means anything in terms of where they stand in comparison to each other in their adult years. 

But do go on and keep denying:

Feats
Facts
Statements


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## Zef (Aug 17, 2015)

My trolling aside though, Naruto & Sasuke are equal. 

If we want to talk strictly feats though that may be a different story.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 17, 2015)

Altair21 said:


> I'll just leave this here.
> 
> Movie spoilers in link below:
> 
> ...



As teens, they were not equal. Naruto was clearly more powerful. As adults, well, even if their own speed is equal, what about their other abilities? What about PS vs Naruto's Bijuu Avatar? And are there any statements in the movies that they were equal? Because in the manga of their adult time, there is no such statement, at all.


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## Kyu (Aug 17, 2015)

Basically, does full mastery of the Rinnegan compensate for the lack of 9 biju he absorbed last time...

 Overall it improves Sasuke's standing, but this specific opponent has ways around every Rinnegan tech at his disposal.

I honestly don't see Sasuke coming out on top if Naruto is actively trying to kill him.


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## Larry (Aug 17, 2015)

How about if Sasuke was a villain and Naruto didn't even know him? With that intent I don't think it wouldn't be a tie.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 17, 2015)

Sasuke has more potential when fully developed, as he'd end up with a mastered Rinnegan, senjutsu, and biju powers (if he wanted.)​


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## Tarot (Aug 17, 2015)

Kishi has consistently stated and portrayed that the two always end up equal at full power. By portrayal and author's intent, they are equal and have been multiple times in the manga. 
They were equal at VotE
-SM=MS
-BM=PS
-Rikudou SM=Rinnegan

If we're gonna get into specifics of the war arc, Naruto was ahead of Sasuke mostly because he got a whole training arc to learn his new powers while Sasuke jumped into the war with no prior training and was still learning his new powers. However, both of their fully matured power-ups are equal when both fully mastered. The same thing happened after he got Rinnegan. Sasuke couldn't use it to it's full potential because his body hadn't fully adjusted to it yet. So he had to make up the difference with the biju chakra instead. Basically, Kishi always makes them both equal in theory. By feats, Naruto is always gonna have more attention and thus look better, but I need not go into the fallacies of being a feats nazi.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 18, 2015)

> They were equal at VotE



At VotE2? Sasuke needed Bijuu in order to *stalemate* a holding back Naruto.


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## Tarot (Aug 18, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> At VotE2? Sasuke needed Bijuu in order to *stalemate* a holding back Naruto.


and that biju chakra was part of his arsenal at the time in the same way Kurama was part of Madara's arsenal at the VotE. Sasuke noted that Naruto had to get serious towards the end of the fight.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Aug 18, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> At VotE2? Sasuke needed Bijuu in order to *stalemate* a holding back Naruto.



You mean the very Bijuu that Sasuke was forced to utilize chakara to subdue and imprison prior to his bout with Naruto? Since Naruto fans want to throw tangebles such as lack of killing on Naruto's part. How about we Sasuke fans point out that Sasuke was fighting Naruto while also subduing 8.5 bijuus.....

Your argument doesn't even make sense, as Naruto is also utilizing biju power....

Suffice to say Naruto needed a COOPERATING Kurama heavily to match a Sasuke who was restraining 8.5 bijuus. Your going to learn to pick your battles Mr. StarWander. I'm rather infamous in the art of "Making dat ass look bad like stretch marks"


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## StarWanderer (Aug 18, 2015)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> You mean the very Bijuu that Sasuke was forced to utilize chakara to subdue and imprison prior to his bout with Naruto? Since Naruto fans want to throw tangebles such as lack of killing on Naruto's part. How about we Sasuke fans point out that Sasuke was fighting Naruto while also subduing 8.5 bijuus.....
> 
> Your argument doesn't even make sense, as Naruto is also utilizing biju power....
> 
> Suffice to say Naruto needed a COOPERATING Kurama heavily to match a Sasuke who was restraining 8.5 bijuus. Your going to learn to pick your battles Mr. StarWander. I'm rather infamous in the art of "Making dat ass look bad like stretch marks"



As if he needs lots of chakra to imprison them. His Rinnegan was active after that, he didnt suffer a huge chakra loss, but after that, he could use his Susanoo as Gedo Mazo.

And after CT was formed, he wasnt spending chakra on it. 

Naruto was holding himself back the whole time, even after Sasuke got Bijuu, yet stalemated him.

And, unlike Naruto, Sasuke had Rinnegan, which compensates Naruto's usage of Bijuu's chakra.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 18, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Skills are important. That's why Shin kicked their asses, and why Kurama criticised him.
> 
> 
> Except your opinion is not a fact honey.
> ...



Speaking of which did not Naruto state in the Viz trans that both him and Sasuke did become rusty rather than just referring to himself?

As for the 2nd point did not Naruto state pretty much the same both in his mind during their first VotE bout and later when they clashed during the kage summit? Naruto stated that he always wanted to become as cool and strong as Sasuke. Its as if their feelings towards each other parallelled as Kishi decided to show how the rivalry and friendship wasnt one sided on Narutos part I think...


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## Zensuki (Aug 18, 2015)

Rusty Naruto then Sasuke wins....with one hand.

On form Naruto, then its a draw....Sasuke still with one hand.


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## Kyu (Aug 18, 2015)

> Naruto was holding himself back the whole time, even after Sasuke got Bijuu,



No, Naruto got serious once Sasuke upgraded his Susano'o.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 18, 2015)

Kyu said:


> No, Naruto got serious once Sasuke upgraded his Susano'o.





That's just your assumption.


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## Kyu (Aug 18, 2015)

How is absorbing the entirety of earth's natural energy not getting serious?


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## IpHr0z3nI (Aug 18, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> As if he needs lots of chakra to imprison them.


(Dats why I make ....... look bad like stretch marks)

StarWanderer you got to do your research baby boy. I only speak facts.

Last I checked. Chibaku Tensei required an substantial amount of chakara on Nagato's part, an Uzumaki reknowned for their chakara reserves last I checked.




> His Rinnegan was active after that, he didnt suffer a huge chakra loss, but after that, he could use his Susanoo as Gedo Mazo.


Your argument is nonsense, You're basically arbitrating that since Sasuke was able to continue fighting; Rinnegan active and all, those chibaku tensei costed him next to nothing in the chakara department. Unfortunately for you, the manga disagrees. Not only was Sasuke's variation of CT much larger than Nagato's, Kurama didn't break out of his variatioin, he manage to maintain it throughout the fight with Naruto. Stop it. Stop discussing things you obviously knw next to nothing about.



> And after CT was formed, he wasnt spending chakra on it.


Please read the manga good sir....

Maintaining CT requires chakara otherwise.

[QUOTE[Naruto was holding himself back the whole time, even after Sasuke got Bijuu, yet stalemated him.[/QUOTE]
STOP IT! Stop participating in discussions in which you have no case. Is this not Naruto's strongest attack, mode, etc. etc. Question Mr. Wanderer, did Naruto's attack above not cancel out Sasuke's? And would you suggest that Indra arrow was executed with the intent to kill? Question Mr. Wanderer,  does Sasuke not refute your claim here? Did Naruto not arbitrate above that he wanted to best Sasuke?

Perhaps you are not familiar with Iphr0z3nI, but he can run circles around most with it comes to this manga. 



> And, unlike Naruto, Sasuke had Rinnegan, which compensates Naruto's usage of Bijuu's chakra.


Oh no, no, no, no baby boy. Sasuke's an Uchiha and both Obito and Madara had BOTH.

Is Sasuke not Naruto last antogonist? Therefore does he not have the obligation to be on par or above his predecessors?

But let's get to chopping this fable Mr. Wanderer. Read the fine print., the manga seeems to imply that Sasuke throughout his fight with Naruto was not fully familar with the Rinnegan, outright, Suffice to say, Sasuke was not as familar with the Rinnegan as Naruto was with Kurama.

Suffice to say, you have no legitimate argument.
Suffice to say, you fail to comprehend the manga correctly.
Suffice to say, your best best bet is to bow out this discussion secretly, as all of your arguments have been crushed.,


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## Max Thunder (Aug 18, 2015)

Kyu said:


> How is absorbing the entirety of earth's natural energy not getting serious?



Naruto fans forever trying to twist the context of the manga to suit their beliefs


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## Alucardemi (Aug 18, 2015)

They've been yet again stated to be equals, haven't they?

So what is the problem here, lol. I will never understand this -- what more could you need? The author's favorite past-time is bashing you over the head with the fact that Naruto and Sasuke are basically two sides of the same coin.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 19, 2015)

> (Dats why I make ....... look bad like stretch marks)
> 
> StarWanderer you got to do your research baby boy. I only speak facts.
> 
> Last I checked. Chibaku Tensei required an substantial amount of chakara on Nagato's part, an Uzumaki reknowned for their chakara reserves last I checked.



On *Nagato's* part, who is not the real owner of the Rinnegan, and who doesnt have half of Hagoromo's chalra reserves. For Sasuke, who had half of Hagoromo's chakra reserves and who was the true owner of his Rinnegan, the technique was easy to make. Juubidara made CT easily, why should Sasuke have any problems with that?



> Your argument is nonsense, You're basically arbitrating that since Sasuke was able to continue fighting; Rinnegan active and all, those chibaku tensei costed him next to nothing in the chakara department. Unfortunately for you, the manga disagrees. Not only was Sasuke's variation of CT much larger than Nagato's, Kurama didn't break out of his variatioin, he manage to maintain it throughout the fight with Naruto. Stop it. Stop discussing things you obviously knw next to nothing about.



Kurama was under his control. And dont compare Nagato to Sasuke, who, unlike Nagato, was the real owner of his Rinnegan and had Hagoromo's chakra. 



> Please read the manga good sir....
> 
> Maintaining CT requires chakara otherwise.



Those scans dont prove Nagato spent chakra on maintaining CT after it was fully formed. He was just suffering from huge chakra loss. Watch the scans you are posting here next time.



> STOP IT! Stop participating in discussions in which you have no case. Is this not Naruto's strongest attack, mode, etc. etc. Question Mr. Wanderer, did Naruto's attack above not cancel out Sasuke's? And would you suggest that Indra arrow was executed with the intent to kill? Question Mr. Wanderer, does Sasuke not refute your claim here? Did Naruto not arbitrate above that he wanted to best Sasuke?
> 
> Perhaps you are not familiar with Iphr0z3nI, but he can run circles around most with it comes to this manga.



Have you read what Naruto said there? 



Have you read what Naruto said there?



Have you read what Sasuke said there?



Sasuke was all out on hin, trying to kill him. Naruto wasnt all out, holding himself back. Because he didnt want to kill Sasuke.



> Oh no, no, no, no baby boy. Sasuke's an Uchiha and both Obito and Madara had BOTH.
> 
> Is Sasuke not Naruto last antogonist? Therefore does he not have the obligation to be on par or above his predecessors?
> 
> ...



He just said that Preta Path was one of his Rinnegan powers and that he is destined to win. It doesnt prove that Sasuke throughout his fight with Naruto was not fully familiar with the Rinnegan.

And take a look at this.



Trashtalk wont help you in this debate. Just saying.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Aug 19, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> On *Nagato's* part, who is not the real owner of the Rinnegan, and who doesnt have half of Hagoromo's chalra reserves. For Sasuke, who had half of Hagoromo's chakra reserves and who was the true owner of his Rinnegan, the technique was easy to make. Juubidara made CT easily, why should Sasuke have any problems with that?


Lol.......what....Deal how.

Are you suggesting that due the fact that Sasuke has more chakara than Nagato, we should neglect how taxing CT actually is? Bill Gates is a billionaire right, but if he was to deem buying a Ferrari is too expenseive should we question his judgement?(Can you afford a Ferrari)The bottom is this. Just because your reserves/bank account can handle the expenses of a jutsu, doesn't make it any less taxing chakara wise. 

Your point is ultimately moot because Sasuke ran out of chakara by the end of the battle. Meaning that CT and everything that costed him chakara had some effect on the overall battle.



> Kurama was under his control. And dont compare Nagato to Sasuke, who, unlike Nagato, was the real owner of his Rinnegan and had Hagoromo's chakra.


Being the real owner of the Rinnegan doesn't omit the fact that utilizing Rinnegan jutsu or any jutsu for that matter takes chakara. Once again, Sasuke ran out of chakara. You are a fool if you think utilizing CT prior to fighting Naruto didn't have some effect on Sasuke's chakara reserves. Considering he fighting Naruto, who has naturally more chakara than him. One would think that every jutsu no matter how insignificant you think it is to Sasuke's overall chakara supply, is important. Had Sasuke's Rinnegan absorbtion abilities not kicked in when they did, the battle would have been over here.

And FYI.....For a quote on quote "Real Rinnegan Owner" Sasuke seems rather late to the party when it comes to Rinnegan jutsu absorbing. I mean Nagato, who isn't the true inheritor  of the Rinnegan, had no trouble executing that basic Rinnegan manuever.



> Those scans dont prove Nagato spent chakra on maintaining CT after it was fully formed. He was just suffering from huge chakra loss. Watch the scans you are posting here next time.


The only person who isn't reading the scans is you. Read, again.

The above doesn't look like chakara loss. But of course let's role clip.  Notice his condition gets worse the longer the jutsu is sustained. He face wasn't jarring blood with the initial activation of CT. It was only after CT manage to accumilate a certain size and time duration that his body showed signs that the jutsu was too much.

Your rooki mistake? You made this issue strictly about chakara instead of ONE'S HEALTH. Wouldn't you say the later is equally as important?





> Have you read what Naruto said there?


Not only did I read it. I read the Gaiden. Watched Naruto the last, and to my surprise. That panel showcases the strongest attack Naruto has ever produced ANYWHERE.

Suffice to say you want to suggest Naruto is capable of more......The burden of proof is on you. 



> Have you read what Naruto said there?


Have seen this? Which panel holds more weight Mr. Wanderer? I believe mines does considering the above marks the end of that very battle in question.



> Have you read what Sasuke said there?


See above. 

What you must relize is that nothing write has more of  an impact than this....

The last, Baruto the move, the Gaiden, Naruto has yet to top his VOE2 performance. Suffice to say you have no evidence of a Naruto going for the juggler......No..no... wait.. Yeah you do, you just refuse to apply any form abstract thinking in this situation.



> Sasuke was all out on hin, trying to kill him. Naruto wasnt all out, holding himself back. Because he didnt want to kill Sasuke.


Yeap......It sure looks as if Naruto held back.

Question me if I ain't right, but didn't Naruto run out of chakara almost at the same time Sasuke ran out of chakara? Which implies what Iphr0z3nI? That Naruto expent just as much effort and chakara defending against Sasuke's assasults as Sasuke trying to kill him.(Too easy bruh)




> He just said that Preta Path was one of his Rinnegan powers and that he is destined to win. It doesnt prove that Sasuke throughout his fight with Naruto was not fully familiar with the Rinnegan.
> 
> And take a look at this.
> 
> ...


And arguing against your betters won't help you in one.

All of argument amounted to nothing, as you've yet to relize the burden of proof is on you. Sasuke is still Naruto's best showcasing power wise, and as long as that's a fact, you have case.


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## Brooks (Aug 19, 2015)

I all I'm hearing is "Naruto was holding back" left and right. Now, what exactly was Naruto holding back? 

Maybe Jesus himself?


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## StarWanderer (Aug 19, 2015)

> Lol.......what....Deal how.
> 
> Are you suggesting that due the fact that Sasuke has more chakara than Nagato, we should neglect how taxing CT actually is? Bill Gates is a billionaire right, but if he was to deem buying a Ferrari is too expenseive should we question his judgement?(Can you afford a Ferrari)The bottom is this. Just because your reserves/bank account can handle the expenses of a jutsu, doesn't make it any less taxing chakara wise.
> 
> Your point is ultimately moot because Sasuke ran out of chakara by the end of the battle. Meaning that CT and everything that costed him chakara had some effect on the overall battle.



Bad, bad example, to be honest. It doesnt fit our debate.

Sasuke ran out of chakra because he used his most powerful attack - Indra's arrow. Which he used after recieving TB's chakra.

Hagoromo, along with his brother, Hamura, created a moon with their combined CT. Sasuke had half of Hagoromo's chakra and, with Naruto, created another CT comparable to the moon. Nagato's CT was said to be nothing compared to Hagoromo's.

That jutsu wasnt taxing for Sasuke, at all. If it was taxing for Nagato - it doesnt mean it will be taxing for Sasuke, who, unlike Nagato, had bigger chakra reserves by miles (half of Hagoromo's chakra) and was the real owner of his Rinnegan (the one who awakened it).

Your point is moot already.



> Being the real owner of the Rinnegan doesn't omit the fact that utilizing Rinnegan jutsu or any jutsu for that matter takes chakara. Once again, Sasuke ran out of chakara. You are a fool if you think utilizing CT prior to fighting Naruto didn't have some effect on Sasuke's chakara reserves. Considering he fighting Naruto, who has naturally more chakara than him. One would think that every jutsu no matter how insignificant you think it is to Sasuke's overall chakara supply, is important. Had Sasuke's Rinnegan absorbtion abilities not kicked in when they did, the battle would have been over here.
> 
> And FYI.....For a quote on quote "Real Rinnegan Owner" Sasuke seems rather late to the party when it comes to Rinnegan jutsu absorbing. I mean Nagato, who isn't the true inheritor of the Rinnegan, had no trouble executing that basic Rinnegan manuever.



Prove that Sasuke suffered a lot from that CT. Because as far as i know, he didnt. And he used TB's chakra after that. The chakra of all tailed beasts. And even with that chakra, he couldnt win against a holding back Naruto.

And yeah - good luck absorbing Senjutsu chakra with Preta Path. Especially Hagoromo's Six Paths Sage Mode. Maybe you should re-read Naruto's fight with Pain before participating in this debate?



> The only person who isn't reading the scans is you. Read, again.
> 
> The above doesn't look like chakara loss. But of course let's role clip. Notice his condition gets worse the longer the jutsu is sustained. He face wasn't jarring blood with the initial activation of CT. It was only after CT manage to accumilate a certain size and time duration that his body showed signs that the jutsu was too much.
> 
> Your rooki mistake? You made this issue strictly about chakara instead of ONE'S HEALTH. Wouldn't you say the later is equally as important?



"Has he already found a way to control the nine-tailed fox?" How exactly that proves anything, especially when there was no gravity pulling SM Naruto in CT's core? He created CT, it formed and that's it. He suffered from chakra loss, he wasnt maintaining CT the whole time. 

Sasuke's health shouldnt be worse after using that CT, because for him, it is an easy technique to make, considering his huge chakra reserves. Many, many times bigger than Nagato's reserves. 



> Not only did I read it. I read the Gaiden. Watched Naruto the last, and to my surprise. That panel showcases the strongest attack Naruto has ever produced ANYWHERE.
> 
> Suffice to say you want to suggest Naruto is capable of more......The burden of proof is on.



If Naruto was all out from the start, he would have killed Sasuke before he used tailed beasts. And by the way, it seems you dont care about the fact that Sasuke used Indra's Arrow only when his Susanoo was like a Gedo Mazo for all tailed beasts.



> See above.
> 
> What you must relize is that nothing write has more of an impact than this....
> 
> The last, Baruto the move, the Gaiden, Naruto has yet to top his VOE2 performance. Suffice to say you have no evidence of a Naruto going for the juggler......No..no... wait.. Yeah you do, you just refuse to apply any form abstract thinking in this situation.



I have. Naruto's own words, written by Kishimoto himself. And the fact that even with chakra from all tailed beasts, Sasuke could only stalemate him. 

Suffice to say, you have no evidence of Sasuke being as powerful as Naruto at VotE 2.



> Yeap......It sure looks as if Naruto held back.
> 
> Question me if I ain't right, but didn't Naruto run out of chakara almost at the same time Sasuke ran out of chakara? Which implies what Iphr0z3nI? That Naruto expent just as much effort and chakara defending against Sasuke's assasults as Sasuke trying to kill.(Too easy bruh)



Yes. Even his last attack was not meant to kill Sasuke, but to protect himself. He wasnt trying to kill, or to fight Sasuke all out. 

Sure, you dont care about the fact that Sasuke used chakra of all tailed beasts. Sure, you dont care about Naruto's and, by the way, Sasuke's words. Sure, you have no proof of CT Sasuke used in the beginning being taxing for him in any way.

Sure, you have lost this debate already. Because you are using your own subjective assumptions, which are not backed up by manga in any way.

And before you wrote that Naruto's own chakra reserves were bigger than those of Sasuke - Naruto didnt have The Rinnegan and EMS.



> And arguing against your betters won't help you in one.
> 
> All of argument amounted to nothing, as you've yet to relize the burden of proof is on you. Sasuke is still Naruto's best showcasing power wise, and as long as that's a fact, you have case.



It has been written in the manga that Naruto didnt want to fight him, or kill him. It has been written in the manga that Sasuke was himself surprised about Naruto not going all out on him. It has been written in the manga that Sasuke used all tailed beasts in order to help him, but even then, he stalemated a holding back Naruto.

All of those things has been written in the manga.




> I all I'm hearing is "Naruto was holding back" left and right. Now, what exactly was Naruto holding back?
> 
> Maybe Jesus himself?



Maybe you should read the manga?


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## Brooks (Aug 19, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Maybe you should read the manga?



Maybe you should be more specific?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 19, 2015)

It is evident that Naruto would beat Sasuke if he's not rusty. Sasuke is considered equal to a rusty Naruto.
Naruto wasn't even aiming to kill Sasuke during their last battle where he didn't even have 100% Kurama.

Though the fight wouldn't be easy. Sasuke would be dishing out at the very least the Seven Paths jutsu alongside his EMS jutsu plus Amenojikara. 
In contrast to Naruto who'll be using all the Bijuu's powers, amped by a full Kurama, plus Rikudou Senjutsu. 

Now if we grant Sasuke jutsu like Limbo... arguably let's say Momoshiki's Preta Path type jutsu. Then we'd have to grant Naruto his Frog Fu, all 9 of his Gedo Dama and the Ni Dai Sennin. Let's not forget that the Ni Dai Sennin can be amped with the SPSM version of the chakra transfer jutsu.

Hard to call, honestly. However we're led to believe Naruto edges out on top when he's not rusty.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Aug 19, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Bad, bad example, to be honest. It doesnt fit our debate.


Please elaborate.....Oh wait, you can't.



> Sasuke ran out of chakra because he used his most powerful attack - Indra's arrow. Which he used after recieving TB's chakra.


 So using your most powerful attack = automatic chakara depletion.
What you are suggesting is that none of Sasuke's previous escapades outside of Indra arrows contributed to his lack of chakara at the end of his bout with Naruto, which is stupid.

Another example for you Mr. Wanderer, since you seem to have a hard time understanding simple concepts....If I go to the store and buy a basket full of groceries, and by the end of my trip I'm dead broke. Does it mean the money I spent to put gas into my car to make it to the store is irrelevant to my overall finacial situation? 

Your argument is simply not making sense. ALL OF SASUKE'S ABILITIES RUNS ON CHAKARA, thus every chidori, every katon, every CT, contributes to his condition at the end of his battle with Naruto.



> Hagoromo, along with his brother, Hamura, created a moon with their combined CT. Sasuke had half of Hagoromo's chakra and, with Naruto, created another CT comparable to the moon. Nagato's CT was said to be nothing compared to Hagoromo's.


Irrelevant, why? Because half of Hagoromo's chakara or not, Sasuke still ran out of chakara.




> That jutsu wasnt taxing for Sasuke, at all. If it was taxing for Nagato - it doesnt mean it will be taxing for Sasuke, who, unlike Nagato, had bigger chakra reserves by miles (half of Hagoromo's chakra) and was the real owner of his Rinnegan (the one who awakened it).


My god, I'm talking to a brick wall...

Being taxing to Sasuke or not is irrelevant, IT COST HIM CHAKARA.

Being a billionare doesn't change the fact that buying a private jet is a major investment. 
By the end of the battle with Naruto, Sasuke couldn't even perform a basic chidori. Now I would like to see you argue that a basic chidori cost more chakara than CT.(Just keep digging yourself holes)



> Your point is moot already.


Do you think this is my first rodeo? You have to back your claims mate.





> Prove that Sasuke suffered a lot from that CT. Because as far as i know, he didnt. And he used TB's chakra after that. The chakra of all tailed beasts. And even with that chakra, he couldnt win against a holding back Naruto.


I don't have to prove shit, as my argument is merely CT costed him chakara. It's you that's trying to make a case as to how much it affected him combat wise, which is irrelevant, why? Because by end of his battle with Naruto, SASUKE WAS OUT OF CHAKARA. So unless you're making the case that CT cost Sasuke no chakara, you have no ARGUMENT.

And perhaps you need to reread. Naruto and Sasuke were at a stalemate prior to Sasuke utilizing the tailbeast for chakara. Sasuke in his haste to break the deadlock opted to utilize the power of the tailed beast.....Thus him believing he has become the powerful person in the world.

Lastly, you keep citing that Naruto was holding back. Yet Naruto was in the same condiiton as Sasuke at the end of their battle.

The burden of proof is upon you buddy, but we both know you're all talk.

And yeah - good luck absorbing Senjutsu chakra with Preta Path. Especially Hagoromo's Six Paths Sage Mode. Maybe you should re-read Naruto's fight with Pain before participating in this debate?





> "Has he already found a way to control the nine-tailed fox?" How exactly that proves anything, especially when there was no gravity pulling SM Naruto in CT's core? He created CT, it formed and that's it. He suffered from chakra loss, he wasnt maintaining CT the whole time.


Your argument is baseless, as the panel clearly shows Nagato's condition deteriating by opting such a technique. You opt to give an explanation for what we are seeing, but you are forgetting one thing, mate. I'll run circles around you when it comes to this manga.



> Sasuke's health shouldnt be worse after using that CT, because for him, it is an easy technique to make, considering his huge chakra reserves. Many, many times bigger than Nagato's reserves.


Once again, Sasuke ran out of CHAKARA. RAN OUT OF CHAKARA. Meaning ALL OF HIS ASSAULTS INCLUDING THIS BASIC CHIDORI UTILIZED HERE, affected him in the long run.

You need to reread the manga.....Because running out of chakara can kill you, it's what killed Nagato.





> If Naruto was all out from the start, he would have killed Sasuke before he used tailed beasts.* And by the way, it seems you dont care about the fact that Sasuke used Indra's Arrow only when his Susanoo was like a Gedo Mazo for all tailed beasts.*


If Sasuke was all out from the start, he would have killed Naruto.(The argument works both ways)

Anywho, the bought with Naruto was a mere five chapters. THINGS EXCALATED RATHER QUICKLY. And the bold is irrelevent, as no one is arguing inregards to Sasuke utilizing the tailed beast.



> I have. Naruto's own words, written by Kishimoto himself. And the fact that even with chakra from all tailed beasts, Sasuke could only stalemate him.


Naruto words regarding what? You need to be more specific. You aren't a good debator, as you seem to lack the ability to make clear points outright.

And I could care less on what Sasuke did become as powerful as he became, as I'm a Uchiha advocate. Suffice to say, the only thing I care about is Sasuke becoming the strongest Uchiha in the manga. Obito, Madara, both were guilty of using biju chakara to ehance their power.

As far as Sasuke only being able stalemate Naruto, what's your point? Naruto and Sasuke have been portrayed as equals for most of the manga. Thus stalemating Naruto = best outcome for a Sasuke fan. Secondly, you need to stop trying argue against your betters, as you may end up looking stupid. I for one am glad Naruto manage to get to Sasuke somehow, as Sasuke's plan was STUPID. 



> Suffice to say, you have no evidence of Sasuke being as powerful as Naruto at VotE 2.


"I don't even talk, I let the VISA speak"

Is that the outcome Mr. Wanderer? If it is, then please stop this ridiculous argument.





> Yes. Even his last attack was not meant to kill Sasuke, but to protect himself. He wasnt trying to kill, or to fight Sasuke all out.


And he couldn't kill Sasuke, as the attack was no more powerful than Indra's Arrow.
Suffice to say, you need to learned the simple concept of "SHOW AND PROVE"

Please, please show me something Naruto has done since VOE2 that would place him above Sasuke from that fight onwards. We both know you can't, so why.......



> Sure, you dont care about the fact that Sasuke used chakra of all tailed beasts. Sure, you dont care about Naruto's and, by the way, Sasuke's words. Sure, you have no proof of CT Sasuke used in the beginning being taxing for him in any way.


I don't care about Sasuke using the tailed beast because Naruto also utilized tailed beast.
I don't care about Sasuke using the tailed beast because both Madara and Obito utilized the tailed beast.

By the end of the manga, was Sasuke not the most powerful Uchiha showcased? That's all this one cares about mate.



> Sure, you have lost this debate already. Because you are using your own subjective assumptions, which are not backed up by manga in any way.


As I always say, you cannot lose a debate. You can only come accross as competent in your own argument.

How can I lose when Naruto vs. Sasuke ended in a stalemate. It's you who arguing assumptions. It's you who's failing to provide actual panel to support your claim. Please oh please, do your homework on posters before jumping into the ring with someone who is CLEARLY ON ANOTHER LEVEL.



> And before you wrote that Naruto's own chakra reserves were bigger than those of Sasuke - Naruto didnt have The Rinnegan and EMS.


Does the Rinnegan and EMS grant one chakara, or new abilities that cost chakara? I know tailedbeast grants it's user chakara, and what is Naruto wielding?




> It has been written in the manga that Naruto didnt want to fight him, or kill him. It has been written in the manga that Sasuke was himself surprised about Naruto not going all out on him. It has been written in the manga that Sasuke used all tailed beasts in order to help him, but even then, he stalemated a holding back Naruto.


And has been written that Naruto and Sasuke were IN THIS CONDITION AT THE END OF THEIR FIGHT, RESPECITIVELY.

You arbitrate Naruto wasn't going all out, yet that's the most powerful performance Kishi has given us on the behalf of Naruto, so something is clearly wrong with your overall argument.

You seem to make excuses after excuses as to why this was the case, but your argument is irrelevant.



> All of those things has been written in the manga.


As has Naruto and Sasuke being equal in their final bout






> Maybe you should read the manga?


Maybe you should stop arguing against your betters. 

Look at my post, then look at yours. Yours seem to be full of excuses, but little to no manga scans. Many of your points are irrelevant or pure speculation, and you seem imply things you can't support. One cannot suggest Naruto was holding back without providing a Naruto performance that tops his VOE2 one.


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## sanninme rikudo (Aug 19, 2015)

Naruto will eventually drop Sasuke. 
He was holding back during their fight. He states this multiple times.… 
Despite him using very powerful moves, he had to match Sasuke's techs, to keep him from getting blown down. As an individual does not say I'm not trying to kill someone then attempts to take all their attacks, rather than countering. 

Moreover, there's also the case that Sasuke needed the power of the Bjuu, and even with it, he still failed to drop Naruto. Whereas Naruto only had 50% Kurama. On top of that, Naruto has been fighting the war much longer than Sasuke has, so to be able to still keep up with him without the intent to kill, to the point where Sasuke admits defeat is not only impressive, but shows who is greater between the two.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 19, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> It is evident that Naruto would beat Sasuke if he's not rusty. Sasuke is considered equal to a rusty Naruto.
> Naruto wasn't even aiming to kill Sasuke during their last battle where he didn't even have 100% Kurama.
> 
> Though the fight wouldn't be easy. Sasuke would be dishing out at the very least the Seven Paths jutsu alongside his EMS jutsu plus Amenojikara.
> ...



Did not Naruto state that both him and Sasuke got rusty though? At least I seem to recall him saying that in the Viz trans.

We do not know if Sasuke kept honing the battle reflexes by fighting worthy opponents during the years when he searched for traces of Kaguya...though he seemingly improved with his rinnegan given how he could now freely travel through Kaguyas dimensions while during the fight with Kaguya he couldnt escape the desert dimension on his own...


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## Zef (Aug 19, 2015)

Zensuki said:


> Rusty Naruto then Sasuke wins....with one hand.
> 
> On form Naruto, then its a draw....Sasuke still with one hand.



This


Handicapped Sasuke too stronk. GG if he ever reconsiders taking a prosthetic


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 19, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Did not Naruto state that both him and Sasuke got rusty though? At least I seem to recall him saying that in the Viz trans.



I thought so too. Apparently I was wrong, Yagami said it only referenced Naruto (though it is worth noting that he said he didn't have access to the raws at this time). 

I'll ask in the translation thread.



> We do not know if Sasuke kept honing the battle reflexes by fighting worthy opponents during the years when he searched for traces of Kaguya...though he seemingly improved with his rinnegan given how he could now freely travel through Kaguyas dimensions while during the fight with Kaguya he couldnt escape the desert dimension on his own...



Going by the idea that I was wrong to assume Sasuke got rusty, I'd say he honed his battle skills. He was able to use one handed seals, improve his Rinnegan and presumably unlock all the other powers of the Rinnegan. 

But really I'm going by the lack of evidence that Sasuke's skills became dull like Naruto's. It seems like his skills got sharper.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 19, 2015)

^ Not that it matters in the movie, Naruto's skills weren't rusty against Momoshiki or Kinishiki. He had gotten back to top form since Gaiden fast. Considering how much he saved Sasuke during the fight and carried him in the battle after all.


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## The Runner (Aug 19, 2015)

Both are rusty.

None of them have fought with someone at their level since the second VotE fight, aside from Naruto fighting Toneri. All Sasuke has done was practice since then, while Naruto is too busy being Hokage to actually practice. Both haven't actually been truly chalenged, Naruto especially. 

Naruto is rustier, but Sasuke only has one arm. Sasuke has more hax, I think, but Naruto has better DC , Strength, and Durability feats.

Kishi always intends to keep them both on equal grounds in terms of strength, for some bullshit reason. So this is just a 50/50 match at this point. Kishi even ignored the "Naruto having the Nine Biju Chakra" just so this could be.

It's that simple


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 19, 2015)

SuperJoggaCypher the 3rd said:


> Both are rusty.
> 
> None of them have fought with someone at their level since the second VotE fight, aside from Naruto fighting Toneri. All Sasuke has done was practice since then, while Naruto is too busy being Hokage to actually practice. Both haven't actually been truly chalenged, Naruto especially.
> 
> ...


...did you even see what they did in the Boruto movie? Naruto and Sasuke are NOT rusty at all by then. And even then, Naruto held the advantage in the fight against Momoshiki.

Naruto's battle senses had became rusty in Gaiden, but he corrected that by the time of Boruto's Chunin Exams.


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## The Runner (Aug 19, 2015)

> ...did you even see what they did in the Boruto movie? Naruto and Sasuke are NOT rusty at all by then. And even then, Naruto held the advantage in the fight against Momoshiki.
> 
> Naruto's battle senses had became rusty in Gaiden, but he corrected that by the time of Boruto's Chunin Exams.


Er just because they put up a good fight, doesn't mean that they aren't rusty compared to their previous feats. They haven't fought with somebody up to par in a while, and I don't recall Naruto training in the Boruto Movie (If he did, that would be fucked up, considering the state he was with his family) 

I'm not stating that they are bad, just not as good as they were before.


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## ScottofFury (Aug 20, 2015)

Naruto has a lot more raw power than Sasuke. Sasuke has the hax though. It could go either way if Sasuke pulls out some BS technique. If he don't though, Naruto stomps.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 20, 2015)

> Please elaborate.....Oh wait, you can't.



I dont think that's necessary.



> So using your most powerful attack = automatic chakara depletion.
> What you are suggesting is that none of Sasuke's previous escapades outside of Indra arrows contributed to his lack of chakara at the end of his bout with Naruto, which is stupid.
> 
> Another example for you Mr. Wanderer, since you seem to have a hard time understanding simple concepts....If I go to the store and buy a basket full of groceries, and by the end of my trip I'm dead broke. Does it mean the money I spent to put gas into my car to make it to the store is irrelevant to my overall finacial situation?
> ...



That doesnt matter, since:

1. CT was an easy technique for Sasuke, unless you can prove otherwise, which you can. Sasuke's aye wasnt suffering from CT, he didnt look exhausted because of that technique and for someone who has half of Hagoromo's chakra, such a CT is an easy technique to make.
2. Sasuke, after that, used the chakra of all tailed beasts. He could make Indra's arrow because of that. And that's a huge compensation for his previous chakra loss.
3. It seems you dont care about the fact that Naruto, before that, spend a lot more chakra. He was fighting with Kaguya alone, while Sasuke was in another dimension and he used the chakra of all tailed beasts to make Kaguya unstable. Not to mention he made a Gudoudama platform for Sasuke to "fly". He spent a lot more chakra than Sasuke, but it seems you dont care about that, right?

You can bring as much examples as you want, but you have lost this debate already.



> Irrelevant, why? Because half of Hagoromo's chakara or not, Sasuke still ran out of chakara.



That is relevant. Why? Because Naruto used a lot more chakra than Sasuke in their fight with Kaguya and during the war. Plus, Sasuke used chakra of all tailed beasts against Naruto. And even then, he could only stalemate him. While Naruto was holding himself back.



> My god, I'm talking to a brick wall...
> 
> Being taxing to Sasuke or not is irrelevant, IT COST HIM CHAKARA.
> 
> ...



As i said before, you have lost this debate already, but you havent listened.

Sasuke spent much less chakra than Naruto during the war, or during the fight against Kaguya. He has less chakra than Naruto, when even after using chakra of all tailed beasts, he exhausted as fast as Naruto. And his chakra doesnt recover as fast as Naruto's. 

If Naruto is serious on Sasuke, he can use those 2 Bijuu Damas to kill Sasuke. Sasuke, however, has no technique which will harm Naruto, because Indra's Arrow was performed with the help of tailed beasts chakra and you cant prove he can use that attack without tailed beasts. 

Naruto either tires Sasuke out, or destroys him right away.

And that's why he was very well above Sasuke during VotE 2.



> Do you think this is my first rodeo? You have to back your claims mate.



I did.



> I don't have to prove shit, as my argument is merely CT costed him chakara. It's you that's trying to make a case as to how much it affected him combat wise, which is irrelevant, why? Because by end of his battle with Naruto, SASUKE WAS OUT OF CHAKARA. So unless you're making the case that CT cost Sasuke no chakara, you have no ARGUMENT.
> 
> And perhaps you need to reread. Naruto and Sasuke were at a stalemate prior to Sasuke utilizing the tailbeast for chakara. Sasuke in his haste to break the deadlock opted to utilize the power of the tailed beast.....Thus him believing he has become the powerful person in the world.
> 
> ...



Ok, CT costed him some of his chakra, but Sasuke was still below Naruto. And that's what this thread is all about. Naruto used a lot more chakra than Sasuke during the war, during the fight with Kaguya, yet even after that, even after Sasuke used tailed beasts, Naruto, who was holding himself back, could stalemate Sasuke, who was trying to kill him, thus was all out on him.

Sasuke cant deal damage to Naruto without tailed beasts chakra. And his own chakra is weaker and doesnt recover as fast as Naruto's tailed beasts chakra. Naruto is superior in chakra department and can use attacks which will destroy Sasuke. He was superior at VotE 2.

Yeah, he believed he was the most powerful. Still, got stalemated by Naruto. How that benifits you is beyond me.

Yeah - you still should re-read that fight.



> Your argument is baseless, as the panel clearly shows Nagato's condition deteriating by opting such a technique. You opt to give an explanation for what we are seeing, but you are forgetting one thing, mate. I'll run circles around you when it comes to this manga.



*Your arguement is baseless*. You are trying to use *assumptions* in our debate. Nagato suffered from chakra loss, because CT was a very costing technique for him. How that proves he was spending chakra on it *all the time*? Well, it doesnt. I care about facts, not your own assumptions.



> Once again, Sasuke ran out of CHAKARA. RAN OUT OF CHAKARA. Meaning ALL OF HIS ASSAULTS INCLUDING THIS BASIC CHIDORI UTILIZED HERE, affected him in the long run.
> 
> You need to reread the manga.....Because running out of chakara can kill you, it's what killed Nagato.



Ran out of CHAKRA AS FAST AS NARUTO, EVEN WHEN NARUTO USED A LOT MORE CHAKRA DURING THE WAR, DURING THE FIGHT AGAINST KAGUYA AND EVEN WHEN SASUKE USED ALL TAILED BEASTS TO HELP HIM. *See? I can use capslock too.* 

By the way, Sasuke's assaults were useless. Although he was all out on him.

Yes - it can kill you, i know. Also, i know that Naruto is a lot better than Sasuke in chakra department. Also, i know that if Sasuke havent used tailed beasts, he would have run out of chakra a lot faster by meaninglessly attacking Naruto, who would have just defended himself, without going all out on him. Which would have resulted in Sasuke's defeat. 

Come on now, come on. At VotE 2, Naruto was clearly above Sasuke. *Clearly.*



> If Sasuke was all out from the start, he would have killed Naruto.(The argument works both ways)
> 
> Anywho, the bought with Naruto was a mere five chapters. THINGS EXCALATED RATHER QUICKLY. And the bold is irrelevent, as no one is arguing inregards to Sasuke utilizing the tailed beast.



No it doesnt. Because Sasuke was all out from the start of that fight. He was trying to kill him. Naruto, on the other hand, wasnt all out on him.

And how is that irrelevant, when Sasuke could utilise a technique which can do a harm to Naruto only with the help from tailed beasts? What would have happened if Sasuke havent used tailed beasts and fought Naruto in a fair fight, with only *their* power-ups? 

I will say what would have happened - Sasuke would have exhausted himself before Naruto. And that's if Naruto's was holding himself back. If Naruto was serious, he would have killed Sasuke by those 2 Bijuu Rasen Shuriken, which stalemated Indra's Arrow.



> Naruto words regarding what? You need to be more specific. You aren't a good debator, as you seem to lack the ability to make clear points outright.
> 
> And I could care less on what Sasuke did become as powerful as he became, as I'm a Uchiha advocate. Suffice to say, the only thing I care about is Sasuke becoming the strongest Uchiha in the manga. Obito, Madara, both were guilty of using biju chakara to ehance their power.
> 
> As far as Sasuke only being able stalemate Naruto, what's your point? Naruto and Sasuke have been portrayed as equals for most of the manga. Thus stalemating Naruto = best outcome for a Sasuke fan. Secondly, you need to stop trying argue against your betters, as you may end up looking stupid. I for one am glad Naruto manage to get to Sasuke somehow, as Sasuke's plan was STUPID.



He said that he was not trying to kill Sasuke, he said that he didnt want to beat the Sasuke in the VotE 2, and Sasuke himself was surprised about how Naruto was "slacking like that". Kishimoto wrote all of that himself in his manga.

And no - they were not. They were never equals at the same exact time. Hell, Sasuke even beat him in VotE. They were not portrayed as equals.

Even in VotE 2, they were not portrayed as equals. You should read the manga much, much more attentively.



> "I don't even talk, I let the VISA speak"
> 
> Is that the outcome Mr. Wanderer? If it is, then please stop this ridiculous argument.



You dont care about the details. You dont care about why they stalemated each other. 

Even Indra's Arrow, the very thing that allowed Sasuke to stalemate Naruto, was used with tailed beasts chakra. There is no evidence that Sasuke could use it without tailed beasts. He would have had no answer for Naruto's 2 Rikudou FRS without tailed beasts chakra. He would have died. Or exhausted himself by meaninglessly attacking Naruto.

It's like saying that fighters are equal, although one used PEDs to amp his fighting capabilities and other havent used them and was holding himself back. But nevertheless, they stalemated each other.



> And he couldn't kill Sasuke, as the attack was no more powerful than Indra's Arrow.
> Suffice to say, you need to learned the simple concept of "SHOW AND PROVE"
> 
> Please, please show me something Naruto has done since VOE2 that would place him above Sasuke from that fight onwards. We both know you can't, so why.......



Indra's Arrow, which Sasuke performed *only with tailed beasts help*. Can you prove that he was capable of utilising it without tailed beasts chakra? No, you cant. 

I am talking about the VotE 2 and the fact that, there, Naruto was above Sasuke. That's what i am talking about. 



> I don't care about Sasuke using the tailed beast because Naruto also utilized tailed beast.
> I don't care about Sasuke using the tailed beast because both Madara and Obito utilized the tailed beast.
> 
> By the end of the manga, was Sasuke not the most powerful Uchiha showcased? That's all this one cares about mate.



Yeah, Naruto utilised tailed beasts. *But he didnt have EMS and Rinnegan.* Unlike Sasuke, *he didnt have any kind of Dodjutsu*. 

Because of both Madara and Obito using tailed beasts? How is that relevant in our arguement?

Yeah, Sasuke became the strongest Uchiha ever. But only because of Hagoromo, who gave him a power boost.

What this one cares about is about the fact that at VotE 2, Naruto was clearly above Sasuke. 




> As I always say, you cannot lose a debate. You can only come accross as competent in your own argument.
> 
> How can I lose when Naruto vs. Sasuke ended in a stalemate. It's you who arguing assumptions. It's you who's failing to provide actual panel to support your claim. Please oh please, do your homework on posters before jumping into the ring with someone who is CLEARLY ON ANOTHER LEVEL.



*Because of the reasons they stalemated each other. * I provided enough already. 

Judging from your performance here, you are clearly on another, *lower level*. Please, use facts, ok? Not assumptions, like the one with CT. And pay attention to details.



> Does the Rinnegan and EMS grant one chakara, or new abilities that cost chakara? I know tailedbeast grants it's user chakara, and what is Naruto wielding?



Both EMS and Rinnegan does give lots of chakra-costing abilities. Naruto doesnt have any kind of Dodjutsu. But again - if , in your opinion, TB's chakra is a better power-up than EMS and Rinnegan, then that benifits me. 



> And has been written that Naruto and Sasuke were IN THIS CONDITION AT THE END OF THEIR FIGHT, RESPECITIVELY.
> 
> You arbitrate Naruto wasn't going all out, yet that's the most powerful performance Kishi has given us on the behalf of Naruto, so something is clearly wrong with your overall argument.
> 
> You seem to make excuses after excuses as to why this was the case, but your argument is irrelevant.



Yes, they were. But do you care *why* they were in this condition? If you dont, then you are obviously trolling me.

Something is clearly wrong with your overall arguement. Why? I explained that earlier.

Even Sasuke's Indra's Arrow, which allowed him to stalemate Naruto, was utilised when Sasuke was using TB's chakra.

These are not excuses - these are important details i am talking about. Which are important, that's pretty much logical.



> As has Naruto and Sasuke being equal in their final bout



Thanks to tailed beasts chakra Sasuke utilised. And thanks to the fact Naruto wasnt all out on him from the start and wasnt trying to kill him.

Guess what would have happened if the fight was fair, with Naruto going all out on Sasuke, without tailed beasts being any close to Sasuke. 



> Maybe you should stop arguing against your betters.
> 
> Look at my post, then look at yours. Yours seem to be full of excuses, but little to no manga scans. Many of your points are irrelevant or pure speculation, and you seem imply things you can't support. One cannot suggest Naruto was holding back without providing a Naruto performance that tops his VOE2 one.



I am too lazy to put manga scans here. But you know what i am talking about, so i dont think i need to provide any scans in this debate. 

Many of my points? Such as?

Kishimoto wrote that by himself. There is nothing to suggest those words written for manga characters by Kishimoto were false. It is visible in the manga, when Sasuke is the one attacking Naruto. 

Against my betters? I have seen a lot better debaters than you in the Battledome, with much less posts. Your performace is pathetic, to be honest. Trashtalking, using assumptions, not giving a thing about manga details and facts - that's not the same as being a good debater.

And there is a possibility that you are just trolling, not debating with me seriously at all.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 20, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> I dont think that's necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. It is unknown how much chakra 9 CT used but IF Sasuke had his chakra supply completely filled after his PS absorbed bijuu chakra then he would not run out of chakra right after the mecha fight was over. He could only use one small Amaterasu and one chidori. Afterwards he lacked chakra for even a single chidori even though he was using tons of high level jutsus through the whole war against the most powerful opponents.

2. And Naruto got all of the Earth nature energy which according to Kurama was the only reason that Naruto was not blown away by Sasukes attack. Requiring such extra super boost hardly shows how Naruto could keep holding back and it should easily make up for Naruto losing chakra during the war. Besides Kurama was always his main power source anyway and Kurama did not state that his own chakra reserves were low after this war...especially given how Naruto got Yin Kurama at the same time he got RS power boost.

3. Naruto used plenty of chakra during this war in fact but he also got to rely on the 2 biggest single chakra batteries in the narutoverse-Yang and later Yin Kurama. With each of those bijuus even gathering and relenishing his chakra numerous times during all those fights. Naruto making a gudoudama platform does not matter since he had all those gudoudamas activated since the very beginning and did not make one specifically for Sasuke but just changed the shape of one that he had from the start. While Sasuke was gone Naruto focused on making diversions via kage bunshins to buy time till Sasuke is back and had his bunshins destroyed by Kaguya pretty fast. Aside from those frs that affected Kaguya due to making the bijuus inside of her react I do not recall him using any other nukes during the fight which is hardly surprising given how Kaguya could absorb most stuff and Naruto himself stated that only taijutsu and diversions may work against her.

And it does not matter how useless Sasuke was against Kaguya but how much chakra he used. By using a huge and undoubtedly chakra heavy mecha so many times, using Ameno which being an advanced rinnegan jutsu could have costed huge amounts of chakra and showing clear exhaustion by trying to use all he could to escape Kaguyas dimension show he wasted much power regardless of his performance against Kaguya.


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## Larry (Aug 20, 2015)

I thought Sasuke got a prosthetic arm or some shit like Naruto?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 20, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ^ Not that it matters in the movie, Naruto's skills weren't rusty against Momoshiki or Kinishiki. He had gotten back to top form since Gaiden fast. Considering how much he saved Sasuke during the fight and carried him in the battle after all.



That was a rusty Naruto. He didn't get any spare times to regain any skill he lost from the time of the Gaiden to the movie. That wasn't Naruto in his top form.


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## NUMBA1TROLL (Aug 21, 2015)

Naruto is a tiny bit stronger. But they are so close that it will be a double KO most of the time. On the few times that it isn't a double KO, Naruto can eke out an extreme diff win.


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## Mofo (Aug 21, 2015)

Having seen a good chunk of the movie.
How is that difference "tiny", when a non Six Paths mode and rusty Naruto (With the first transform Kurama Shroud -- no mantle and without the chakra of the other  8 bijuus) is carrying Rinnegan Sasuke through the fight.
Logic dictates (and we have Vote2 to prove that) that final form Naruto would be a big deal stronger than Rinnegan Sasuke.
Either Sasuke lucks out and Naruto gets massive PIS or he's toast 9 times out of 10.


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## Panther (Aug 21, 2015)

Sasuke's strongest jutsu still remains his Rikudou PS which Naruto easily can defend with his Rikudou BM and bust it with one or two BDFRS and Ameno which Naruto reacted against.

It's canon that Sasuke needed the 8 Bijuu + 50% Yang Kurama to equal a war tired holding back and low on chakra RSM Naruto's Ashura avatar while he had still a tiny bit of the Bijuu's chakra left. Nothing changes that, a fresh non tired bloodlusted Naruto would decimate Rinnegan Sasuke, ill go as far as to say he would blitz Sasuke with his RSM shunshin like he did against Kaguya if Sasuke doesn't start in his Rikudou PS.

And from what we have seen in the leaked cam cording, it's being portrayed as BM Naruto = Rinnegan Sasuke, so an adult RSM Naruto would come near Kaguya's lvl.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 21, 2015)

Mofo said:


> Having seen a good chunk of the movie.
> How is that difference "tiny", when a non Six Paths mode and rusty Naruto (With the first transform Kurama Shroud -- no mantle and without the chakra of the other  8 bijuus) is carrying Rinnegan Sasuke through the fight.
> Logic dictates (and we have Vote2 to prove that) that final form Naruto would be a big deal stronger than Rinnegan Sasuke.
> Either Sasuke lucks out and Naruto gets massive PIS or he's toast 9 times out of 10.



Overkill when you consider VotE2 Naruto had 50% Kurama whereas movie Naruto had 100% Kurama. Basically Six Paths mode Naruto ITT would be much stronger (power wise) than the one in VotE2 because he's got 100% Kurama as opposed to 50%.



Panther said:


> Sasuke's strongest jutsu still remains his Rikudou PS which Naruto easily can defend with his Rikudou BM and bust it with one or two BDFRS and Ameno which Naruto reacted against.
> 
> It's canon that Sasuke needed the 8 Bijuu + 50% Yang Kurama to equal a war tired holding back and low on chakra RSM Naruto's Ashura avatar while he had still a tiny bit of the Bijuu's chakra left. Nothing changes that, a fresh non tired bloodlusted Naruto would decimate Rinnegan Sasuke, ill go as far as to say he would blitz Sasuke with his RSM shunshin like he did against Kaguya if Sasuke doesn't start in his Rikudou PS.
> 
> And from what we have seen in the leaked cam cording, it's being portrayed as BM Naruto = Rinnegan Sasuke, so an adult RSM Naruto would come near Kaguya's lvl.



I agree if we assume Amenojikara is Sasuke's main Rinnegan power. Assuming he chose not to master the other powers. 

If Sasuke chose to master the other powers, honestly this should be a bit closer.


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2015)

Sasuke had all the Rinnegan powers during their fight. People are simply taking Kurama's statement out of context.
All of what Kurama said is Sasuke can't use his jutsu while absorbing at the same time, and yet people treat it
as if he said "Sasuke can't use any Rinnegan power at all"


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## Arles Celes (Aug 21, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Sasuke had all the Rinnegan powers during their fight. People are simply taking Kurama's statement out of context.
> All of what Kurama said is Sasuke can't use his jutsu while absorbing at the same time, and yet people treat it
> as if he said "Sasuke can't use any Rinnegan power at all"



Hmmm...I recall Kurama saying that "Sasuke cant absorb and use ninjutsu with a rinnegan he had just awakened". So it means that a Sasuke with more Rinnegan experience could potentially pull that off just like Kaguya fight Sasuke couldnt escape her desert dimension but the current adult Sasuke can actually travel through her dimensions.

It is also unknown if Sasuke back then could use any rinnegan jutsus aside from Ameno and CT. Even Preta is something he had shown by the very end as if learning it at said point.

It all ended up a contest of friendly given bijuu juice vs forcibly taken bijuu juice...


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## Trojan (Aug 21, 2015)

> Hmmm...I recall Kurama saying that "Sasuke cant absorb and use ninjutsu with a rinnegan he had just awakened".


Yeah, that's what I said.  



> It is also unknown if Sasuke back then could use any rinnegan jutsus aside from Ameno and CT. Even Preta is something he had shown by the very end as if learning it at said point.


No, he said so himself that he can use them, or rather got used to them during the battle with Kaguya/madara...



> It all ended up a contest of friendly given bijuu juice vs forcibly taken bijuu juice...


Narudo did not really use any of the other Bijuu's chakra tho, he was only using Kurama's chakra. Not to mention
he was drained from the war and holding back because he does not want to kill Sasuke. Even Sasuke knows that.


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## Tarot (Aug 21, 2015)

Not sure why people are bringing up 100% Kurama since even EMS Madara's susanoo could tank its attacks with no problem and I'd assume Sasuke should have the same level Susanoo by this point and have it boosted by his Rikudou chakra.


> And from what we have seen in the leaked cam cording, it's being portrayed as BM Naruto = Rinnegan Sasuke, so an adult RSM Naruto would come near Kaguya's lvl.


Naruto was using RSM in the movie, or something similar to it.


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## Arles Celes (Aug 21, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Yeah, that's what I said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But wouldnt being able to both absorb and use jutsu at the same time be a great help? Preta is incredibly cheap as it can apparently absorb any jutsu apart from those that use wood or sand as such physical stuff seems to be an exception. 

Well...Six path senjutsu is activated through the help of all the chakra Naruto got from other bijuus plus the chakra he received from Hagoromo. Same with those 2-3 gudoudamas that he had left which require the powers of all bijuus. Furthermore, aside from flying-which he used with his Kurama avatar- and super strength boost most of Narutos bijuu powers focus on rasengan variants from the bijuu. And Kuramas bijuu frs seems to be the strongest out of them and seemingly retaining the wind element which was clearly a better option against a lighting based attack like Indras arrow rather than a lava or a magnet based frs I think...


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 21, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Sasuke had all the Rinnegan powers during their fight. People are simply taking Kurama's statement out of context.
> All of what Kurama said is Sasuke can't use his jutsu while absorbing at the same time, and yet people treat it
> as if he said "Sasuke can't use any Rinnegan power at all"



Not all of them. Just CT, which he'd seen. And Preta Path's Fuujutsu Kyuuin is something he discovered in the nick of time. 

Kurama said Sasuke's still a rookie, that means he was not a skilled user. Kurama said Sasuke can't use jutsu use chakra and absorb it at the same time like Madara and Nagato. 

Extrapolating, while considering all the facts, Sasuke didn't have access to all the powers. If Sasuke wasn't a rookie, Naruto would've lost that last encounter, really. For example Sasuke might've just absorbed Enton-Chidori and Rasengan, then used the chakra to end the fight.  



Death Arcana said:


> Not sure why people are bringing up 100% Kurama since even EMS Madara's susanoo could tank its attacks with no problem and I'd assume Sasuke should have the same level Susanoo by this point and have it boosted by his Rikudou chakra.



Naruto's Bijuudama managed to damage PS... this is with fragments of each Bijuu's chakra alongside 50% Kurama.
It stands to reason that damage from 100% Kurama, alongside fragments of the other 8 Bijuu would be even more effective.

Saying Kurama's Bijuudama was tanked by Madara's PS is irrelevant. Naruto isn't using Kurama's power alone. He's using Six Paths Senjutsu; he's got 100% Kurama alongside all the Bijuu's fragmented chakra each of which is enhanced by natural energy... Six Paths energy seemingly. Hence his eyes. 



> Naruto was using RSM in the movie, or something similar to it.



Kind of. He wasn't using the RSM we saw against Madara, Kayuga and Sasuke. 

Since Naruto had a new seal which binded all the Bijuu's chakra. Naruto's Kurama forms have been replaced with Six Paths Senjutsu versions of them.

For example in the Toneri movie, we saw him use the RSM version of KCM. In the Momoshiki movie, we saw him use the BM version of BM. 

He's yet to use the full Six Paths Sage Mode in any movie.


----------



## The Undying (Aug 21, 2015)

Gotta love Kishimoto.

>introduces Kurama forms that clearly look and function almost nothing like RSM
>provides no clarification whatsoever in interviews or movies
>now the entire fanbase is confused and constantly in disagreement about it


----------



## Tarot (Aug 21, 2015)

> Naruto's Bijuudama managed to damage PS... this is with fragments of each Bijuu's chakra alongside 50% Kurama.
> It stands to reason that damage from 100% Kurama, alongside fragments of the other 8 Bijuu would be even more effective.
> 
> Saying Kurama's Bijuudama was tanked by Madara's PS is irrelevant. Naruto isn't using Kurama's power alone. He's using Six Paths Senjutsu; he's got 100% Kurama alongside all the Bijuu's fragmented chakra each of which is enhanced by natural energy... Six Paths energy seemingly. Hence his eyes.


I'm more-so basing this on a downscaling of their feats. If we remove both of their buffs (Rikudou and biju chakra), then teenage Sasuke's Susanoo is roughly equal to 50% Kurama cloak. Therefore, I think that adult Sasuke's Susanoo(regardless of external buffs) would have grown to Madara's power and durability, which would match Naruto's 100% Kurama cloak. Add back their Rikudou buffs, they'd be at around the same level again regardless. At least, that's my personal thesis if that makes sense. 
Kishi hasn't made it very clear on what powers they've potentially gained/lost. All things considered, I'd give Naruto the edge, but I still feel that they're about equal by portrayal.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 22, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ^ Not that it matters in the movie, Naruto's skills weren't rusty against Momoshiki or Kinishiki. He had gotten back to top form since Gaiden fast. Considering how much he saved Sasuke during the fight and carried him in the battle after all.



If by carrying him you mean for the 5 second Sasuke was down then yes he did carry him.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Aug 23, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> I dont think that's necessary.


Then don't suggest something if you're unwilling to take the time......






> That doesnt matter, since:
> 
> 1. CT was an easy technique for Sasuke, unless you can prove otherwise, which you can.


Yet this argument can go both ways. StarWanderer do you deem yourself to be above supporting your statements? If so. You're sadly mistaken.



> Sasuke's aye wasnt suffering from CT, he didnt look exhausted because of that technique and for someone who has half of Hagoromo's chakra, such a CT is an easy technique to make.


Good god is this your first debate? As you have trouble addressing the issue being raised by your opponent directly. The condition of Sasuke's eyes is irrelevant, I never even....

The issue is CHAKARA. The fuel that empowers all of Sasuke's jutsu. He had none at some point in the fight, that is undisputable.


> 2. Sasuke, after that, used the chakra of all tailed beasts. He could make Indra's arrow because of that. And that's a huge compensation for his previous chakra loss.


Sasuke used to chakara of the tailed beast, sure. But it's also true that he expended chakara trying to capture set beast. Huge compensation, he says. Compensation isn't the issue being addressed. You're calling foul on Sasuke using the tailed beast to ehance his power. I'm pointing out that he had to actually work to put himself in a position to actual perform even that. Case in point. nothing was handed to him Mr. Wanderer. Unlike Naruto who was given Kurama at birth


> 3. It seems you dont care about the fact that Naruto, before that, spend a lot more chakra. He was fighting with Kaguya alone, while Sasuke was in another dimension and he used the chakra of all tailed beasts to make Kaguya unstable. Not to mention he made a Gudoudama platform for Sasuke to "fly". He spent a lot more chakra than Sasuke, but it seems you dont care about that, right?


I don't care because Sasuke was also fighting Kaguya. And while Naruto was fighting Kaguya alone, Sasuke was expending a large amount of chakara trying to excape Kaguya's deminsion. 

What is the point you're trying to make here, that one used more chakara than the other? Deal how, both were heavily involved in both the fight with Madara and Kaguya. If you've forgoten Naruto still had access to the chakara of the other tailed beast

Please oh please stop with this ridiculous argument, as both Naruto and Sasuke expended a large amount of chakara prior to their final fight.



> You can bring as much examples as you want, but you have lost this debate already.


Baseless, as you actually have to have an actual argument to win a debate. You've not refuted none of my points, and you seem to be alergic to referencing the manga. This is our third round, and each round you've presented a new argument with little to no substance. Bottom line, you've not won shhit.





> That is relevant. Why? Because Naruto used a lot more chakra than Sasuke in their fight with Kaguya and during the war. Plus, Sasuke used chakra of all tailed beasts against Naruto. And even then, he could only stalemate him. While Naruto was holding himself back.


Baseless, as you have no way to prove that. You don't know how taxing any of their jutsu is, you have to make a guess. Just like you did earlier regarding Sasuke's usage of CT. And you believe you've won this debate, bitch please. And please oh please stop citing Naruto was holding back, if you don't intend to expand on it. 





> As i said before, you have lost this debate already, but you havent listened.


See above.



> Sasuke spent much less chakra than Naruto during the war, or during the fight against Kaguya. He has less chakra than Naruto, when even after using chakra of all tailed beasts, he exhausted as fast as Naruto. And his chakra doesnt recover as fast as Naruto's.


Lol, first and foremost they started fighting Madara before Kaguya. And you have no way to validate who spent what against who. You have way to measure how taxing a particular jutsu is. And just like Sasuke utilized biju chakara against Naruto. Naruto had access to biju chakara against Kaguya. Talk about double standards. 



> If Naruto is serious on Sasuke, he can use those 2 Bijuu Damas to kill Sasuke. Sasuke, however, has no technique which will harm Naruto, because Indra's Arrow was performed with the help of tailed beasts chakra and you cant prove he can use that attack without tailed beasts.


Lol, what.

Bijuu Dama proved to be no problem against Sasuke, so why would an additional one be an issue? You have a habit of making arguments you cannot validate, Mr. wanderer.

Anywho, throughout that fight SASUKE WAS ASS PULLING AT EVERY TURN, so it's no telling what he was capable of at when, thus your point is invalid as both weren't utilizing their full potential at that point.



> Naruto either tires Sasuke out, or destroys him right away.


Another unsupported conjecture on your part.

Please read the manga, Naruto was having enough problems merely matching Sasuke's output. 
Please read the manga, Sasuke had Naruto on his TOES FROM JUMP. Sasuke was the aggressor throughout the fight.

I love how you arbitrate you won this argument, yet you do not seem to be utilizing the manga at all. Sasuke had Naruto on the defense for almost the entire fight.



> And that's why he was very well above Sasuke during VotE 2.


As I said before Sasuke had Naruto on the defense for almost the entire fight, if anything that proves he was arguably above Naruto. Hell one can argue that Sasuke ended the fight with his last action. The two previous chidori vs. Rasengan clash never ended with their arms exploding, but this time Sasuke decided to ehance his own attack with enton. Resulting in both Naruto and Sasuke being unable to move out of fear of bleeding out.

Your argument doesn't make sense, as Sasuke was the aggressor. 
Your argument doesn't make sense, as Naruto needed his best attacks to counteract Sasuke's own. Your stance has no case, as you devoid using the actual fight. Two Bijudama's really? Naruto could barely even get off one, as Sasuke was PRESSING HIM CONSTANTLY. 





> I did.


You haven't. You've only made guesses, and baseless speculation. None of which is a substitute for actual manga canon. Backing up your arguments is what I'M DOING. Hence my responses are infused with actual LINKS. Hence is why all my points are EXPANDED ON, and not just left to fend for themselves.





> Ok, CT costed him some of his chakra, but Sasuke was still below Naruto. And that's what this thread is all about. Naruto used a lot more chakra than Sasuke during the war, during the fight with Kaguya, yet even after that, even after Sasuke used tailed beasts, Naruto, who was holding himself back, could stalemate Sasuke, who was trying to kill him, thus was all out on him.


And once again, none of your points can be validated.

Your job is to prove Sasuke was below Naruto, you've yet to do that. You keep aribitrating that Naruto was holding back, but Azura Naruto IS STILL THE STRONGEST INCARNATION OF NARUTO WE'VE SEEN. Even Baruto the movie, has Sasuke fusing their FINAL SUSANO'O/KURAMA forms

Your job is to prove that two Bijudama would have stopped/killed Sasuke, yet you've....

Lol, Mr. Wanderer, you're light work.



> Sasuke cant deal damage to Naruto without tailed beasts chakra. And his own chakra is weaker and doesnt recover as fast as Naruto's tailed beasts chakra. Naruto is superior in chakra department and can use attacks which will destroy Sasuke. He was superior at VotE 2.


Sasuke can't what? If Sasuke was no threat to Naruto outside of utilizing tailed beast chakara, then why oh why was Naruto wasting an applicable amount of chakara defending against set attacks.
And Naruto couldn't have destroyed shit, he was too busy trying to stay alive.

Stop it Mr. Wanderer, stop with you baseless conjecture. What attack did Naruto not use? Bijudama? Tail beast mode? Rasenshuriken? Kagebushin etc. etc.

Are we reading the same manga THIS WAS UNPRECEDENT of Naruto. Kage Bushin TAILED BEAST MODE? Even in Naruto the last, with 100% Kurama, he's never utilized KAGE BUSHIN TAILED BEAST MODE TO THAT EXTENT. Not to mention THIS.

You arbitrate Naruto was holding back, but I'm afraid that was not the case. At least not for the entire fight. Sasuke was forcing Naruto to do things he's never done before.......Sasuke certainly gave Naruto more of a fight than Kaguya, and he was most certainly trying to kill the later. Light Work



> Yeah, he believed he was the most powerful. Still, got stalemated by Naruto. How that benifits you is beyond me.


Actually at that moment he was the most powerfull. Kurama had to step it up  As to how it benifits me, it supports my point that's what. Your arguing that Naruto was above Sasuke at VOE2, right? I'm arguing that what we see is what we got, hence my reliance on actual panel. It was a dead even fight, which would have resulted in both their death had Sakura and Kakashi not come to their aid.



> Yeah - you still should re-read that fight.


Yeah look at my post and tell me who using more panels from set fight.

Maybe you should start taking what happened in their fight as face value, instead of making up shit like two bijudamas would have killed Sasuke prior to....





> *Your arguement is baseless*. You are trying to use *assumptions* in our debate. Nagato suffered from chakra loss, because CT was a very costing technique for him. How that proves he was spending chakra on it *all the time*? Well, it doesnt. I care about facts, not your own assumptions.


But you care about yours, right? "Two Bijudamas would have killed him" 
"Naruto was holding back" etc. etc.

Double standards much.





> Ran out of CHAKRA AS FAST AS NARUTO, EVEN WHEN NARUTO USED A LOT MORE CHAKRA DURING THE WAR, DURING THE FIGHT AGAINST KAGUYA AND EVEN WHEN SASUKE USED ALL TAILED BEASTS TO HELP HIM. *See? I can use capslock too.*


"Naruto using more chakara against Kaguya"(Despite them having to fight Madara first, and Naruto having chakara from all the biju then)

Your entire argument is baseless specualtion and assumption, yet you believe you already won this debate? Bitch please, you can barely compose an argument. 



> By the way, Sasuke's assaults were useless. Although he was all out on him.


Irrelevant to the point being raised. What you are trying to do is turn this into a piss contest. However I'm too seasoned for that Mr. wonderer



> Yes - it can kill you, i know. Also, i know that Naruto is a lot better than Sasuke in chakra department. Also, i know that if Sasuke havent used tailed beasts, he would have run out of chakra a lot faster by meaninglessly attacking Naruto, who would have just defended himself, without going all out on him. Which would have resulted in Sasuke's defeat.


But you ignore that Naruto was using tailed beast also.

You keep talking about if Naruto had done this, or Sasuke have not done that.....Yet thing you seem to be ignoring is that the only one trying to dispute manga canon is you. As I said before I'm satisfied with the outcome, minus the loss of an arm. 



> Come on now, come on. At VotE 2, Naruto was clearly above Sasuke. *Clearly.*
> "I don't even talk I let the VISA speak"
> 
> for some reason the manga doesn't seem to support your opinion. You know what. Earlier you said you can USE ALL CAPS TOO, as a sign that you were my equal. Now can you produce a panel or any panel that supports your points, as you seem to be lacking in that department Mr. "I can use all caps too"
> ...


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 31, 2015)

> 1. It is unknown how much chakra 9 CT used but IF Sasuke had his chakra supply completely filled after his PS absorbed bijuu chakra then he would not run out of chakra right after the mecha fight was over. He could only use one small Amaterasu and one chidori. Afterwards he lacked chakra for even a single chidori even though he was using tons of high level jutsus through the whole war against the most powerful opponents.



Naruto used lots of chakra too, throughout the war and after Rikudou amp. Plus, that last attack was quite powerful. He could use lots of chakra in order to protect himself. Anyway, huge chakra reserve is an advantage for Naruto, which makes him superior to Sasuke.



> 2. And Naruto got all of the Earth nature energy which according to Kurama was the only reason that Naruto was not blown away by Sasukes attack. Requiring such extra super boost hardly shows how Naruto could keep holding back and it should easily make up for Naruto losing chakra during the war. Besides Kurama was always his main power source anyway and Kurama did not state that his own chakra reserves were low after this war...especially given how Naruto got Yin Kurama at the same time he got RS power boost.



And Naruto had to rely only on his powers, only on his power-up. What would have happened if there were no tailed beasts around?



> 3. Naruto used plenty of chakra during this war in fact but he also got to rely on the 2 biggest single chakra batteries in the narutoverse-Yang and later Yin Kurama. With each of those bijuus even gathering and relenishing his chakra numerous times during all those fights. Naruto making a gudoudama platform does not matter since he had all those gudoudamas activated since the very beginning and did not make one specifically for Sasuke but just changed the shape of one that he had from the start. While Sasuke was gone Naruto focused on making diversions via kage bunshins to buy time till Sasuke is back and had his bunshins destroyed by Kaguya pretty fast. Aside from those frs that affected Kaguya due to making the bijuus inside of her react I do not recall him using any other nukes during the fight which is hardly surprising given how Kaguya could absorb most stuff and Naruto himself stated that only taijutsu and diversions may work against her.



Plus, Naruto could fly and i highly doubt it doesnt cost any chakra. Anyway, Naruto used a lot more chakra than Sasuke during his fight with Kaguya, which lasted for some time. 

And Naruto's chakra is the thing which makes him superior to Sasuke. If there were no Tailed Beasts, Sasuke would have lost that fight.


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## ARGUS (Aug 31, 2015)

Putting aside the usual Naruto = sasuke BS 
Naruto wins mid diff at most 
RSM Naruto w/ Full Kyuubi > VOTE Naruto = VOTE Sasuke > adult sasuke


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 31, 2015)

> Yet this argument can go both ways. StarWanderer do you deem yourself to be above supporting your statements? If so. You're sadly mistaken.



Sasuke had half of Hagoromo's chakra. Hagoromo's full chakra prowess is enough to create CT the size of the Moon. How can that CT be exhausting for Sasuke, who had half of Hagoromo's chakra reserves? Plus, he absorbed tailed beasts chakra later and used their power to create Indra's Arrow - the very thing which allowed him to stalemate Naruto.



> Good god is this your first debate? As you have trouble addressing the issue being raised by your opponent directly. The condition of Sasuke's eyes is irrelevant, I never even....
> 
> The issue is CHAKARA. The fuel that empowers all of Sasuke's jutsu. He had none at some point in the fight, that is undisputable.



He had none, even after using the chakra of all tailed beasts. He got almost Juubi-like chakra boost in their fight, but still couldnt win. 

And guess what - Naruto's chakra superiority is what makes him superior to Sasuke in the first place.



> Sasuke used to chakara of the tailed beast, sure. But it's also true that he expended chakara trying to capture set beast. Huge compensation, he says. Compensation isn't the issue being addressed. You're calling foul on Sasuke using the tailed beast to ehance his power. I'm pointing out that he had to actually work to put himself in a position to actual perform even that. Case in point. nothing was handed to him Mr. Wanderer. Unlike Naruto who was given Kurama at birth



And it is also true that Naruto spent more chakra than Sasuke during the war, fight with Juubidara and fight with Kaguya. 

Nothing was handed to him? Itachi's ayes were not handed to him? Yes - they were. And that is the reason why he got his EMS.

Your "pointing out" is useless in our debate. He got Juubi-like chakra boost after that. And it was the sole reason why he stalemated Naruto (created Indra's Arrow). If there were no tailed beasts around, he would have lost the fight.



> I don't care because Sasuke was also fighting Kaguya. And while Naruto was fighting Kaguya alone, Sasuke was expending a large amount of chakara trying to excape Kaguya's deminsion.
> 
> What is the point you're trying to make here, that one used more chakara than the other? Deal how, both were heavily involved in both the fight with Madara and Kaguya. If you've forgoten Naruto still had access to the chakara of the other tailed beast
> 
> Please oh please stop with this ridiculous argument, as both Naruto and Sasuke expended a large amount of chakara prior to their final fight.



Yes, they did. However, those clones, the Rikudou RS which cut down Juubi Tree. The Bijuu Rasenshurikens which made Kaguya's chakra unstable. I'd say, Naruto spent more chakra than Sasuke prior to their fight. But he still couldnt defeat Naruto, who was holding back. Even with Juubi-like chakra boost, he could only stalemate him. Guess what would have happened if there were no tailed beasts around - Sasuke would have lost the fight.

And by the way - Sasuke had access to EMS, which Naruto didnt have. Plus, The Rinnegan, which Naruto didnt have. 



> Baseless, as you actually have to have an actual argument to win a debate. You've not refuted none of my points, and you seem to be alergic to referencing the manga. This is our third round, and each round you've presented a new argument with little to no substance. Bottom line, you've not won shhit.



I actually did. According to manga itself, Naruto is superior. And that i the reason why you've lost this debate already.



> Baseless, as you have no way to prove that. You don't know how taxing any of their jutsu is, you have to make a guess. Just like you did earlier regarding Sasuke's usage of CT. And you believe you've won this debate, bitch please. And please oh please stop citing Naruto was holding back, if you don't intend to expand on it.



It has been written in the manga that Naruto was holding himself back, while Sasuke was all out, trying to kill him. And Hagoromo's chakra is enough to create a Moon-sised CT. Sasuke had half of his chakra and created many, many times smaller CT. And didnt look exhausted at all.



> Lol, first and foremost they started fighting Madara before Kaguya. And you have no way to validate who spent what against who. You have way to measure how taxing a particular jutsu is. And just like Sasuke utilized biju chakara against Naruto. Naruto had access to biju chakara against Kaguya. Talk about double standards.



The jutsu which cut down Shinju is for sure very chakra-taxing. Judging from what it was capable of. The same about Rikudou Rasenshurikens which were used to destroy meteors. 

Talking about double standarts - Sasuke had EMS and Rinnegan, which Naruto didnt have. 



> Lol, what.
> 
> Bijuu Dama proved to be no problem against Sasuke, so why would an additional one be an issue? You have a habit of making arguments you cannot validate, Mr. wanderer.
> 
> Anywho, throughout that fight SASUKE WAS ASS PULLING AT EVERY TURN, so it's no telling what he was capable of at when, thus your point is invalid as both weren't utilizing their full potential at that point.



That Bijuu Dama was very different from either of these.



And without Bijuu's chakra, Sasuke has no way of protecting himself against that attack. 

Plus, the fact he could handle one in close combat doesnt mean he would have been able to handle 1 more. Even if he can handle one with Rikudou Chidori - what about the other? What about the explosion of that Rikudou Rasenshuriken, which is more powerful than the Bijuu Dama Sasuke neutralised?



> Another unsupported conjecture on your part.
> 
> Please read the manga, Naruto was having enough problems merely matching Sasuke's output.
> Please read the manga, Sasuke had Naruto on his TOES FROM JUMP. Sasuke was the aggressor throughout the fight.
> ...



Are you sure it was a jump? It could be Amenotejikara. Anyway, Naruto survived that attack. 

And he was holding himself back. Please, re-read the manga, specifically Naruto's and Sasuke's words. Learn why Sasuke was the aggressor. 

He couldnt do anything to Naruto in their fight. His PS swings were easily blocked. 

I love how you utilise only the parts of manga which *seem* to benifit you. Kishimoto himself wrote those words for both Naruto and Sasuke, you know. 



> As I said before Sasuke had Naruto on the defense for almost the entire fight, if anything that proves he was arguably above Naruto. Hell one can argue that Sasuke ended the fight with his last action. The two previous chidori vs. Rasengan clash never ended with their arms exploding, but this time Sasuke decided to ehance his own attack with enton. Resulting in both Naruto and Sasuke being unable to move out of fear of bleeding out.
> 
> Your argument doesn't make sense, as Sasuke was the aggressor.
> Your argument doesn't make sense, as Naruto needed his best attacks to counteract Sasuke's own. Your stance has no case, as you devoid using the actual fight. Two Bijudama's really? Naruto could barely even get off one, as Sasuke was PRESSING HIM CONSTANTLY.



They both ended it with their last actions. It is irrelevant, anyway. 

The words of Sasuke and Naruto himself, written by Kishimoto, prove that Naruto was holding himself back in their fight. That is why he was on the defencive. And Sasuke couldnt do anything to him, although he was all out on him. 

1. The fact he was the aggressor doesnt prove anything, since : a) None of his attacks did any damage to Naruto. b) Naruto was holding himself back throughout their fight, he intentionally didnt attack him.
2. To counter Sasuke's own, which Sasuke could utilise only thanks to tailed beasts chakra he absorbed. 
3. And couldnt do anything while Naruto was holding himself back.



> You haven't. You've only made guesses, and baseless speculation. None of which is a substitute for actual manga canon. Backing up your arguments is what I'M DOING. Hence my responses are infused with actual LINKS. Hence is why all my points are EXPANDED ON, and not just left to fend for themselves.



You see - your manga usage expandes as far as to benifit only you. You dont care about many other things that happened in canon. And your arguements, for now, doesnt prove anything, realy. 



> And once again, none of your points can be validated.
> 
> Your job is to prove Sasuke was below Naruto, you've yet to do that. You keep aribitrating that Naruto was holding back, but Azura Naruto IS STILL THE STRONGEST INCARNATION OF NARUTO WE'VE SEEN. Even Baruto the movie, has Sasuke fusing their FINAL SUSANO'O/KURAMA forms
> 
> ...



Naruto's words, dude. Read them.

As for the fact it was the strongest incarnation - yes, it was. But Naruto, in that fight, used his own power boost, he didnt have to rely on anything apart from TB's chakra inside of him and Rikudou's chakra. Sasuke had Rikudou's chakra, EMS, Rinnegan + chakra of all tailed beasts and couldnt defeat Naruto. He could only stalemate him. And before those incarnations, were Naruto was cristal-clearly holding himself back, Sasuke couldnt do anything to him, although Naruto was intentionally defending himself, without trying to attack.

He stopped only one. You'll have to prove that he would be fast enough to stop another with Rikudou Chidori. And those 2 Rikudou Rasenshurikens were stronger than that Bijuu Dama. 

Also, i'd like you to prove that Sasuke would be able to do anything to Naruto at all. 

And by the way, wasnt their chakra constructs destroyed from that clash of Chidori and Bijuu Dama? It looks like they were destroyed. If Sasuke's Susanoo was destroyed from that, there is no way he can survive even 1 of those Rikudou Rasenshurikens.



> Sasuke can't what? If Sasuke was no threat to Naruto outside of utilizing tailed beast chakara, then why oh why was Naruto wasting an applicable amount of chakara defending against set attacks.
> And Naruto couldn't have destroyed shit, he was too busy trying to stay alive.
> 
> Stop it Mr. Wanderer, stop with you baseless conjecture. What attack did Naruto not use? Bijudama? Tail beast mode? Rasenshuriken? Kagebushin etc. etc.
> ...



Sasuke cant deal damage to Naruto because... Naruto will be able to defend himself from those attacks. It is as simple as that. You didnt understand me in the right way, i guess.

Too busy defending himself while also holding himself back, lol.

Not to mention, Sasuke used tailed beasts chakra in order to only stalemate Naruto. Because he couldnt defeat him.

At least for the part of their fight were Sasuke havent used tailed beasts in CT. The rest is irrelevant - Sasuke couldnt defeat Naruto even with tailed beasts power-up.

Light work indeed. For me.



> Actually at that moment he was the most powerfull. Kurama had to step it up As to how it benifits me, it supports my point that's what. Your arguing that Naruto was above Sasuke at VOE2, right? I'm arguing that what we see is what we got, hence my reliance on actual panel. It was a dead even fight, which would have resulted in both their death had Sakura and Kakashi not come to their aid.



Was the most powerful, yet stalemated Naruto? Not to mention he was "the most powerful" *only* because of tailed beasts he used in their fight. Naruto also had tailed beasts chakra on his side, but, unlike Sasuke, he didnt have EMS and Rinnegan. 



> Yeah look at my post and tell me who using more panels from set fight.
> 
> Maybe you should start taking what happened in their fight as face value, instead of making up shit like two bijudamas would have killed Sasuke prior to....



I dont use them because i am too lazy to do that. And i dont need that. 

I am not making up anything, especially when Chidori-Bijuudama clash destroyed both Sasuke's and Naruto's chakra constructs. If Sasuke's Susanoo couldnt withstand that, what would have happened if he was hit by a more powerful Rikudou Rasenshuriken? 



> But you care about yours, right? "Two Bijudamas would have killed him"
> "Naruto was holding back" etc. etc.
> 
> Double standards much.



Yes, if weaker Bijuudama/Chidori clash could crush his Susanoo. 

Yes, judging from Naruto's and Sasuke's words.

Not double standarts, but manga facts you clearly dont care about.



> "Naruto using more chakara against Kaguya"(Despite them having to fight Madara first, and Naruto having chakara from all the biju then)
> 
> Your entire argument is baseless specualtion and assumption, yet you believe you already won this debate? Bitch please, you can barely compose an argument.



The same Madara against which Naruto used Rikudou Rasenshuriken which cut down Shinju. The same Madara who's lightning attack was absorbed by Sasuke, by the way.

I won because in the manga it is clear as day that at VotE 2, Naruto was more powerful than Sasuke. He couldnt do anything to Naruto when he only defended himself, without trying to attack Sasuke. He couldnt beat Naruto even after obtaining tailed beasts chakra. There are many things in the manga which prove you to be wrong.



> Irrelevant to the point being raised. What you are trying to do is turn this into a piss contest. However I'm too seasoned for that Mr. wonderer



How about Naruto tiring Sasuke out?

Anyway, you have to be much more seasoned in order to debate with me. I am not impressed by your performance.



> But you ignore that Naruto was using tailed beast also.
> 
> You keep talking about if Naruto had done this, or Sasuke have not done that.....Yet thing you seem to be ignoring is that the only one trying to dispute manga canon is you. As I said before I'm satisfied with the outcome, minus the loss of an arm.
> 
> ...


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## Larry (Sep 27, 2015)

I've been away for like a month and I see two giant pages full of debates

Or it took me a month to read :


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## sanninme rikudo (Sep 27, 2015)

Assuming Naruto has a combo of RSM 100% Kurama and a piece of all Bjuus, Sasuke is gonna get dropped. Naruto just has too much shit going for him. However, if Sasuke gets full mastery over the Rinnegan, the match would be much closer albeit Naruto still coming out victorious. But, I don't think we'll ever see a being who shows the use of all Rinnegan techs.


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## Larry (Oct 7, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Assuming Naruto has a combo of RSM 100% Kurama and a piece of all Bjuus, Sasuke is gonna get dropped. Naruto just has too much shit going for him. However, if Sasuke gets full mastery over the Rinnegan, the match would be much closer albeit Naruto still coming out victorious. But, I don't think we'll ever see a being who shows the use of all Rinnegan techs.




Sasuke can't take Naruto when he has full control of all the Bijuus lol.


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## Rosencrantz (Oct 8, 2015)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Then don't suggest something if you're unwilling to take the time......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In the words Eichiro Oda: Are you an idiot?

Kishimoto smacked our faces so many times with Naruto being the one holding back time and time again throughout that fight. Naruto was OBVIOUSLY fighting significantly longer than Sasuke and expended more chakra and stamina and Kurama even says as much! Naruto being pretty weakened and holding back are canon statements that Kishimoto continued driving home to us, chapter after chapter. Sasuke Uchiha used NINE BJUUS to power himself up. More canon. I know after all of these years you are still a blithering fanboy but the chickens have come home to roost. At least per the end of the manga i.e. VotE2 is concerned, Kishimoto could not have made it any more clear as to who was superior to who. The battle was a draw when Sasuke had ample outside help from 9 bjuus, Naruto was significantly more weakened, and Naruto held back. And fyi, don't compare the Kyuubi jinchuriki with Sasuke using a 1 time power up from 9 bjuus. Sasuke does not have consistent access to 9 bjuus thus they are not his power. Considering Naruto is a jinchuriki, the Kyuubi IS his. The manga is over dude. You tear down your Sasuke shrine finally.


As for this thread, are people saying there was an interview or DB or something that says Naruto and Sasuke are currently equals as adults? Does that not answer this thread?


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## ARGUS (Oct 8, 2015)

Naruto beats him mid diff at most 
Sasuke needed 9 Bijuu to fight on par with 50% kurama Naruto 

Now drop the Bijuu and give Naruto the other half of kyuubi 
And the result is obvious


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 8, 2015)

They're both terrible adults who favor absentee paternity, but I give the edge to Naruto.  He at least he didn't leave his child the be the adult in a home with a mother who regularly blows up the house.  That said, Sarada turned out better than Bolt, so maybe Sasuke's decision to remove himself from her life was for the better.


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## Zef (Oct 8, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Putting aside the usual Naruto = sasuke BS
> Naruto wins mid diff at most
> RSM Naruto w/ Full Kyuubi > *VOTE Naruto = VOTE Sasuke > adult sasuke*



> VOTE Naruto stronger then Adult Sasuke.....




.....These Nardo fans.

The Last Naruto is moon/large continent level. Let VOTE Naruto equal his 19 year old counterpart before we even talk about him being stronger then Adult Sasuke. 

------------------

OT: 
-Preta Path GG
-Rinnegan Genjutsu GG
-Rinnegan Space/Time GG
-Chibaku Tensei GG
-Speed blitz GG
-Rusty Naruto GG himself

Sasuke wins med-high difficulty. 



*"What was that pathetic fighting display earlier?" *

Adult Naruto struggles to keep up with Adult Sasuke yet VOTE Naruto beats the latter? 


Patiently awaiting the Boruto release where Naruto says he's tired, and agrees Sasuke won the fight against Momoshiki.


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## Kyu (Oct 8, 2015)

What I got from that panel is that Sasuke can't hold a candle to Madara in the art of talking shit.


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## Ghoztly (Oct 8, 2015)

Good old Naruto vs Sasuke debates.

They never go anywhere.


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