# Steven Erikson - Malazan Book of the Fallen



## jkingler (May 17, 2006)

Well, I am now committed to yet another fantasy series. 

Here's my sales pitch:

If you love George R. R. Martin but wish he would include more magic, if you love Middle Earth but wish that its inhabitants weren't so black and white, or if you enjoy Robert Jordan but wish some characters would just die, there is a good chance that these books will draw you in. I'm only 100 pages into Gardens of the Moon, book 1 of this (projected to be) 10 book series, but Erikson's sharp prose, his compelling characterization, and his deep worldbuilding are all too good to let me stop reading, even though I don't need another fantasy series to occupy my idle time. 


Here's a typical fantasy synopsis (in that it gives you the lay of the land while sounding horribly silly XD):



> The Malazan Empire simmers with discontent, bled dry by interminable warfare, bitter infighting and bloody confrontations with the formidable Anomander Rake and his Tiste Andii, ancient and implacable sorcerers. Even the imperial legions, long inured to the bloodshed, yearn for some respite. Yet Empress Laseen's rule remains absolute, enforced by her dread Claw assassins.
> 
> For Sergeant Whiskeyjack and his squad of Bridgeburners, and for Tattersail, surviving cadre mage of the Second Legion, the aftermath of the siege of Pale should have been a time to mourn the many dead. But Darujhistan, last of the Free Cities of Genabackis, yet holds out. It is to this ancient citadel that Laseen turns her predatory gaze.
> 
> ...



Here's a review that doesn't spoil anything (and manages to negate the silly sounding synopsis):



> If you prefer fantasy that draws upon the familiar, the tried and true as well as tired conventions, a storyline that is easily recognized and with which you are already well acquainted, with a main character whose adventures you can readily follow and a plot that is simple and linear, this is not the book for you. Shifting between a rich and varied cast of characters, with events taking place at a pace that at times leaves the reader breathless, this vivid and multifaceted tale contains enough material to fill another author's ten books. And, despite all the twists and turns confronting the narrative, rarely does the story ever lag or falter, instead hurtling on through a world so richly imagined and textured that any other writer must look on in wonder and envy---I know I certainly do.
> 
> Stephen Donaldson has hailed the author's imagination as being "vast in scope" and "almost frighteningly fecund." I could not agree more. This is a work that demands the reader's attention: so much is taking place that if you blink you may miss it. Though at times the author's prolific weaving of plot threads and imaginative furies can almost overreach themselves, never once is the reader left long dangling, instead swept back into the maelstrom of events and worlds that not so much unfold as rush to be revealed, anticipation racing over every page. Even in rare moments, when the narrative's aims seem unclear, the vivid writing holds one spellbound.
> 
> Quite an accomplishment, and not for the faint of heart.



If you've read the books, feel free to discuss them here (in spoiler tags, please ). If you're interested and want to find out if this series is for you, read and ask questions. In other words, as usual: discuss!


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## BakaKage (May 17, 2006)

Looks to be a good read but 10 books! I don't know if I would have the patience to wait if I do start reading the series. How many are out right now?


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## Dionysus (May 17, 2006)

It's a series that I will read when/if he finishes.  I made this pact with myself a few years ago.

If you like that (unfinished) series, you should read this (finished) series.

The description of _more magic, more grey characters, more death_ applies.  With excellent prose, great philosophical underlay.


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## jkingler (May 17, 2006)

As I've said in your thread, I may just have to check that series out. 

As for this series: there are currently 6 books out in the UK. Just FYI. 

I think I will wait for the rest of these books to be published stateside, so maybe when I run out of Malazan I will start up that Bakker.


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## Dionysus (May 17, 2006)

OMG Canadians taking over fantasy genre?


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## jkingler (May 18, 2006)

Is Bakker a Canuck, then?


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## Dionysus (May 18, 2006)

Both he and Erikson.


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## BakaKage (May 21, 2006)

Ok, I decided to start this one because I couldn't find The Prince of Nothing trilogy for the life of me. So far so good, and the prose is superb 

great recommendation jkingler.


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## Dionysus (May 21, 2006)

Where are you?  The Prince of Nothing is fairly new.  The last volume out this last January, and he didn't waste any time getting them all out.  (I think the first was released in 2004...)

From the timing of the post, I'll guess the UK.  (And if you're not in the Anglosphere...  it'll may be a time before it's released in your neck o' the woods.)  Here's the first one at Amazon.co.uk (with reviews--one of them complains about waiting for Martin and Erikson ).


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## BakaKage (May 21, 2006)

heh, actually I live in the "land of the free and home of the brave", attacks of insomnia have kept me from sleeping XD. I went to my local Borders today (well yesterday) fully intent on buying the whole series of The Prince of Nothing and they didn't have them, but then again I didn't ask. I dislike buying online for something I can get locally so I'll try again today, I'll check Barnes and Noble probably.


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## Dionysus (May 21, 2006)

Oh, yeah.  They're totally in the US.  Though, you might only get the Thousandfold Thought in hardcover right now.  (I won the whole series in hardcover, in an online contest.  I have the first two in paperback...)

I'm in the Land of Touque, Home of the Poutine.  I just keep random, retarded hours.


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## jkingler (May 21, 2006)

> So far so good, and the prose is superb
> 
> great recommendation jkingler.


Glad to hear that you're enjoying it.  I am now around page 250 or so, and I am still loving it. Erikson's ascendants and gods are very interesting, and I look forward to more of the Tiste Andii.


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## jkingler (Jun 5, 2006)

Well, I've finished Gardens of the Moon and I have to say, I definitely prefer this to Jordan. I can't say whether or not it is on par with Martin, but it comes fairly close, and I am definitely loving it. 

I promptly picked up the second book in the series and it is off to a good start. 

Just posting to renew my endorsement, since I have more reason to praise Erikson (Gardens has an AWESOME climax ). Definitely pick it up if you get the chance, fantasy fans.


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## jkingler (Jun 23, 2006)

OK. I've now finished Deadhouse Gates, Book 2 of this wonderful series, and I must say, this series was amazing to begin with, but now that it's grown on me, I can't see it ever leaving my Fantasy Favorites list. Superb all around, and I LOVE the characters. 

Quick Ben is among my favorite fantasy characters. PERIOD. Oh how I love you, Quick Ben.  And Kalam is super wicked, too. So are most of the characters, really. There's just something about those two, though. Once you go Seven Cities...

Man. READ THIS SERIES!


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## spinstate (Jul 6, 2006)

jkingler said:
			
		

> Man. READ THIS SERIES!



I second that!. Seriously. READ THIS SERIES! 

This series is some the best epic fantasy I have ever read!

Also if you like this series, I would recommend that you also read 
Glen Cook's  Black Company series from which Erikson got some of his inspiration.


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## jkingler (Jan 6, 2007)

Hmm. I'll have to read that one at some point. 

/much delayed reply

I've recently purchased and begun reading book 3, Memories of Ice. Fan-fucking-tastic already, and I am only on page 200/900+, which is fine by me. 

/very happy to be reading about Quick Ben, other returning characters (Kruppe ftw ), and new characters who are fucking sweet


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## Khamzul (Jan 13, 2007)

This is one of the best (if not the best) fantasy in the making right now. I will add more later, all I can say is - this is on a level beyond most fantasy, I put it up there with Tolkien.

Fantasy a'la Berserk, with so many layers that it is impossible to predict. Gods, Humans, Demons, Other races and Spirits clash in a multitiude of worlds. 

And jkinger, the book you are reading now had the most touching moment of all the books I have ever read.


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## metal_uzumaki (Jan 14, 2007)

Tried reading it but got bored after two chapters. Might try reading it again...


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## Khamzul (Jan 15, 2007)

It's a though beginning (really in every book in the series for me) but once you get into it --

Anyway, the interesting thing about these books is that they are so filled with action. While reading Robert Jordan I can skim trough a few pages and still get back on track without problem. If my mind wander for half a page while reading Erikson I have no chance but to reread. These books lasts a long time compared to the likes of Jordan and Rowling, both of which can be read without much problem in the span of half a week. 

So, just recommending this once again - great books, read them if you can.


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## sook (Jan 17, 2007)

i'm going to trust your recommendation, because you also made the post about herbert's _dune_. i've actually been desperate to find a new epic to read; i'm such a sucker for the sprawling world-building, but nothing's really captivated me since _the lord of the rings_, _the dark tower_, and _dune_. here's hoping...


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## jkingler (Jan 24, 2007)

If you like Dune, A Song of Ice and Fire is more of a sure bet, but this series is excellent as well, so I have no doubt that you will love it. If you have the patience and the diligence to get through the in media res that Erikson loves to plunge his readers into, you will be amply rewarded. Quick Ben, Ganoes Paran, Tattersail...so many intriguing and excellently fleshed out characters. Gotta love it. 

EDIT: I almost forgot to mention the fact that I finished Book 3 a short while ago and I've been in withdrawals ever since.  This book just about broke my heart so many times that I lost count. Touching, tragic, and all around masterful fantasy writing. If there were more Eriksons and fewer writers aspiring to the lowly level of the waning Jordan's pen, I would read a lot more fantasy. A lot more.


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## Khamzul (Jan 26, 2007)

^Totally agreed. 

I'm currently rereading the books, and have finished Gardens of teh Moon already. It's really interesting to see if I catch some hints of things I missed, and have already found one which I think will be really important later on.

The end of book 2 was great, but I the third book had one of the best (if not the best) endings I have ever read.


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## jkingler (Jan 26, 2007)

> ^Totally agreed.


Glad to hear it. 

Also: man, I want book 4 so fucking bad right now!  I am fending off my brain's need for excellent and fantastical fiction with intelligent anime, but it's just not the same. There's no Quick Ben in my anime. 


> I'm currently rereading the books, and have finished Gardens of teh Moon already. It's really interesting to see if I catch some hints of things I missed, and have already found one which I think will be really important later on.


I'll probably do that when I run out of books, e.g. whenever I get caught up to where Erikson has left off. 


> The end of book 2 was great, but I the third book had one of the best (if not the best) endings I have ever read.


Duiker...Coltaine...Man, it really took me back and punched me dead in the heart. *remembers all the crows and tears up a bit*

P.S. I found this line while googling, and it is hilarious. Have to share.

Think of this in reference to this series vs. Jordan:

"I mean, stuff actually happens in this one, and I'm not talking about Elayne and Aviendha having a bath for several chapters." 

XD


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## Lucero del Alba (Jan 27, 2007)

Why does everyone reference jordan as comparison? Fella's just too easy to trash on. I did chuckle at the truth of that google line though, jingles.

In any case, it's nice to hear  some more about this series, and despite the fact that I'll be sad once I'm not able to get the rest of the already published novels at my local library, I'll be picking up what I can in short order. Cheers.


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## jkingler (Feb 4, 2007)

> Why does everyone reference jordan as comparison?


Because, unfortunately, he is the most popular fantasy author aside from Tolkien.


> Fella's just too easy to trash on. I did chuckle at the truth of that google line though, jingles.


He is, and so have I, many times. 


> In any case, it's nice to hear some more about this series, and despite the fact that I'll be sad once I'm not able to get the rest of the already published novels at my local library, I'll be picking up what I can in short order. Cheers.


Glad to hear it. Be sure to report back when you have read some. 

EDIT: OK, so I am re-reading book 2, Deadhouse Gates, and I must say, it is every bit as good the second time around. 

Duiker and the Chain of Dogs is still heartbreakingly awesome, and everything else is as great as I remember I ravingly said it was the first time around.


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## Monomyth (Feb 4, 2007)

Cure you, jkingler

These fantasy books are destroying my social life and my wallet. Welp, I guess I'm going to the bookstore this weekend D:


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## Chatulio (Feb 4, 2007)

I have too many book on hiatus and on reserve why must you add more to my desires


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## jkingler (Feb 5, 2007)

Because it is good.


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## Khamzul (Feb 9, 2007)

Finished re-reading book 3. Wow.. 

The realisation when it all comes together is amazing. I'm buying the next book tomorrow if I find it, I really can't wait for book 6 now. 

"Steven Erikson afflicts me with awe...his work does something the rarest of books can manage: it alters the reader's perception of reality"
Stephen R. Donaldson​
If you like fantasy, and want something that is not black and white, but imaginative, unpredictable and epic then read these books.

I'm still noticing subtle hints when rereading (second time reading through 1-3 in 6 months). Some of them just explains reasons or details of the world - but others are interesting in the way they hint to future events (which where I am now in the books have already taken place in some cases).


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## Zodd (Feb 9, 2007)

The books were great through number 2. Then Memories of Ice was released. I read it a while back, buying the British version instead of waiting for the American release. It's now sitting in a landfill somewhere, it's probably the only book I've ever thrown away. Disappointed and done with the series.


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## Khamzul (Feb 9, 2007)

^Difference up of opinion then, I thought the third book is one of the best (if not the best) from 1-5. One of my favorite books. It's interesting how subjective such things are. Are there any difference between the two releases? (Apart from cover)

Are there any of you who has read the (I think it is) triology sidestory set in the same world? I saw it at borders the other day, looks interesting.


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## jkingler (Feb 9, 2007)

With the necromancers? I've thought about checking it out, but if I ever did, it would be after the series is completed. 

As for this:


> Then Memories of Ice was released. I read it a while back, buying the British version instead of waiting for the American release. It's now sitting in a landfill somewhere, it's probably the only book I've ever thrown away. Disappointed and done with the series.


That is...ummm...very surprising. I thought that the third book was one of the best of the bunch I've read. The Tenescowri, Itkovian's gift, Toc the Younger's journey and transformation, the preface with the Elder Gods and the High King...the book was pretty damn awesome, action-packed, epic, and heart-wrenching. What's not to love? 

/requests that reply be put in spoiler tags if needed


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## spinstate (Feb 10, 2007)

Bonehunters, the 6th book in the series does a great job of bringing together the plotlines from the previous books, you get a sense of where the series as a whole is moving towards.


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## Zodd (Feb 10, 2007)

jkingler said:


> With the necromancers? I've thought about checking it out, but if I ever did, it would be after the series is completed.
> 
> As for this:
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



My problems with the third book:
1) Free will is thrown out. In the previous books, you got the feeling that people were making their own decisions. In this book, they revert back to the Homer-esque "pawn of the gods," where there is a pre-determined fate and the story is just how they got there. Why does it matter? Because it takes any suspense the book once had and ruins it. For instance, it doesn't matter what happens to Paran, he's destined to be "x." Yawn. I was rooting for the Crippled God. 

2) Overused archetypes: the omniscient fool with godlike powers which only manifest when he's in danger, or a plot device is needed. Obviously, this is Kruppe. Sometimes in books, I am ready to suspend disbelief, which is the ultimate art of a fictional writer. Kruppe is a slap in the face to that notion. He reminds me that it's fiction. Also, Toc the Younger adventuring with a Ascendant. How boring. No thrill, just a sarcastic, omnipotent bitch. Reading about these two omnipotent beings, constantly slinging pseudo-witticisms at every opportunity had me yawning. 

3) The pace was slow. Gardens of the Moon kept an excellent pace. Now we're doomed to listen to Silverfox's interaction with her mother, her mother's suffering (which never seems to end), and Kruppe/Whiskeyjack getting involved. How boring. How contrived. After reading hundreds of pages I felt as though I hadn't gotten anywhere.


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## jkingler (Mar 13, 2007)

Haha, that post killed this thread for a bit, eh? XD

To reply:

*Spoiler*: __ 





> 1) Free will is thrown out. In the previous books, you got the feeling that people were making their own decisions. In this book, they revert back to the Homer-esque "pawn of the gods," where there is a pre-determined fate and the story is just how they got there. Why does it matter? Because it takes any suspense the book once had and ruins it. For instance, it doesn't matter what happens to Paran, he's destined to be "x." Yawn. I was rooting for the Crippled God.


The pawns of the gods obviously resist a bit, a la Brukhalian and Hood's Herald's little run in. XD And there are so many gods with so many schemes, and then there are the efficacious and amusingly dissembling
human players, such as Kruppe and Quick, and I imagine Laseen and many others as well, though I have only read up to book 3 thus far. 


> 2) Overused archetypes: the omniscient fool with godlike powers which only manifest when he's in danger, or a plot device is needed. Obviously, this is Kruppe. Sometimes in books, I am ready to suspend disbelief, which is the ultimate art of a fictional writer. Kruppe is a slap in the face to that notion.


To each his own, I suppose. I rather enjoy Kruppe, though I prefer Quick by leaps and bounds. :shrugs


> 3) The pace was slow. Gardens of the Moon kept an excellent pace. Now we're doomed to listen to Silverfox's interaction with her mother, her mother's suffering (which never seems to end), and Kruppe/Whiskeyjack getting involved. How boring. How contrived. After reading hundreds of pages I felt as though I hadn't gotten anywhere.


That's how I feel for the first half of most Erikson novels, not that it bothers me. Even if you aren't going anywhere, there's always more depth to any particular venue you find yourself stuck in than you may at first credit it with having. 




Reading Memories of Ice again...still. At the siege of Capustan. This book is every bit as gripping the second time around.


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## Rhaella (Jun 15, 2007)

I'm reviving this, since Malazan is awesome.

Just finished House of Chains a few days ago (my library doesn't have the rest, so I had to order the next two off of Amazon and am waiting)... It really was wonderful.

Sorry for going into fangirl mode, but Cotillion really is such a gorgeous character.

*Spoiler*: __ 



I love how far he, Apsalar, and Crokus have come, and all the subtleties that have developed in their relationship.  For being an Ascendant, he's so utterly human it's amazing.


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## jkingler (Jun 16, 2007)

> I'm reviving this, since Malazan is awesome.


I'm re-bumping this, since I totally agree...and because I wish that more people would start reading this series so that they, too, would agree with meus. It really does dwarf a good number of the other so-called epic fantasies out there, and it does so while managing to create and maintain intriguing, inference-friendly, and overall brilliantly written characters. And a lot of them, too. 


> Just finished House of Chains a few days ago (my library doesn't have the rest, so I had to order the next two off of Amazon and am waiting)... It really was wonderful.


Glad to hear it. I am on page 492/1014 right now, and it is getting better with each sentence, as have all the other Malazan books. It's really a nice sort of book to read--one that improves as you flip through the pages, as opposed to the exact opposite (which is, unfortunately, all too common ).


> Sorry for going into fangirl mode, but Cotillion really is such a gorgeous character.


No worries. You know that I share your sentiments in that regard. Also, I agree with you about CroCutter and Apsalar and their interactions with Señor Rope. When Cutman shocked Mr. Cotex by asking for Blind's backup...well, I just really enjoyed that whole scene. 

P.S. 
*Spoiler*: _Whoaaaaa.._ 



I just caught a whiff of those Hounds of Darkness, and damn, they seem even scarier than the Hounds of Shadow. Daaaaaaayamn.


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Jul 14, 2007)

i have just started reading the Books, and i can say that i am impressed ..... just finished ASoLaF ..... i soo neeeded magic as a central element in the story


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## Freiza (Jul 16, 2007)

this book sounds interesting, is there anything particularly interesting about it?


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## jkingler (Jul 16, 2007)

The characters are very interesting.

Their races are very interesting. 

The plot and the setting are both very complex and interesting.

The magic, where it comes from, and how it works - all very interesting.

It's all quite good. You should go pick up the first book in the series now.


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Sep 5, 2007)

I am reading the Deadhouse gates ATM, reading the reviews about the books on this thread made me buy all 7 of the books ..... and man they are worth every rupee spent


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## Caladan Brood (Sep 5, 2007)

This series is extremely good.
Fast and furious writing, along with memorable characters.

The sheer ambition of the story is breathtaking.

A must read.
It's better than George Martin.


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## Rhaella (Sep 10, 2007)

^ I don't think most of the characters are as well fleshed out as Martin's, though.

Tehol, Paran, Quick Ben, and a few others are exceptions.  And Cotillion and Shadowthrone are as fleshed out as shadow gods should be. <3

Amagad, I missed this:



jkingler said:


> No worries. You know that I share your sentiments in that regard. Also, I agree with you about CroCutter and Apsalar and their interactions with Señor Rope. When Cutman shocked Mr. Cotex by asking for Blind's backup...well, I just really enjoyed that whole scene.
> 
> P.S.
> *Spoiler*: _Whoaaaaa.._
> ...



Mmm.  Every scene with those three is just... magnificent beyond words.  Have you gotten to The Bonehunters yet?  There's this delightful scene with Cotillion and Ammanas, and I just feel so bad for the Rope because it's so, so very obvious that his master is practically insane now. XD


*Spoiler*: __ 



Hounds of Darkness...


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## Dream Brother (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm reading _Gardens of the Moon_, and it's pretty damned convoluted. 

As soon as I finally get acquainted with one character, Erikson introduces about five new ones and throws me off balance again; I begin to grasp one plotline, and then he throws me into a completely new and even more complex one. I never feel quite 'grounded' when reading, if that makes much sense. It’s definitely good stuff, and better than the majority of what can be found in the fantasy genre, but I can’t say that I like it anywhere near as much as Martin’s/Bakker’s/Hobb’s work -- at least, not so far. 

I’ll see how I feel when I finish the book.


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## jkingler (Sep 10, 2007)

@Rhae: 


> ^ I don't think most of the characters are as well fleshed out as Martin's, though.


Agreed. But each author has his own chosen emphasis, where world vs. character development is concerned. I think that it's quite clear that Erikson is developing the 'big picture' (i.e. his changing world and the various places therein) a lot more than Martin is, whereas Martin is all about his characters. I love both approaches, though, so it's all good, if you ask me. 


> Tehol, Paran, Quick Ben, and a few others are exceptions.


While they (including Fiddler, Tattersail, Toc, etc. <3) are much more developed than the majority of Erikson's characters, I don't think that any of them are really developed nearly as much as ANY of Martin's characters, aside from MAYBE Karsa. 


> And Cotillion and Shadowthrone are as fleshed out as shadow gods should be. <3


Exactly. Both authors know when to leave things murky. I love murky badassery, especially when there is sufficient prominently displayed badassery to assure me that what I am not seeing is equally grand and epic. 

@DB: 


> I'm reading Gardens of the Moon, and it's pretty damned convoluted.


As the beginning of many great epic fantasies are. Plenty of bad ones, too, but trust me, this series is excellent. As you'll know first hand, if you can keep your head above water for the first half of the first book. XD


> As soon as I finally get acquainted with one character, Erikson introduces about five new ones and throws me off balance again; I begin to grasp one plotline, and then he throws me into a completely new and even more complex one. I never feel quite 'grounded' when reading, if that makes much sense.


It is definitely that way at the start of most of his books (though you get used to it), and it is done for good reason, if you ask me. The narrative is as chaotic, confusing, and crazy as the world the characters live in, and so I love it, personally. 


> It’s definitely good stuff, and better than the majority of what can be found in the fantasy genre, but I can’t say that I like it anywhere near as much as Martin’s/Bakker’s/Hobb’s work -- at least, not so far.


I feel like Martin vs. Erikson is a toss-up, personally, but I would have to say that Erikson vs. Hobb is a curbstomp in Erikson's favor. Again, this is just my opinion--but in my opinion, I am right. XD


> I’ll see how I feel when I finish the book.


I have no fear that you will find yourself more in line with my way of thinking shortly. 

/recently finished Midnight Tides; chomping at the bit for The Bonehunters (lol)


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## Caladan Brood (Sep 12, 2007)

Hobb has no right to touch Martin/Erikson/Bakker.

Great, great characterization, but a weakass ending to Farseer, and a SUPER SUPER crap series in Soldier Son.


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## Dream Brother (Sep 12, 2007)

When I was talking about Hobb, I was talking about her at her peak, which was (for me) the _Liveship_ trilogy. I didn't like _Soldier Son_ at all, to be honest, and I felt that it was by far the weakest of her work. It just felt very half-hearted.

When I read, I prize characterization and prose style over other elements, and this is why I put Hobb on the same level as Martin/Erikson/Bakker. They're all good in their own separate departments -- in terms of characterization though, the only one of those three who can match Hobb is Martin, in my opinion. Erikson and Bakker seem to concentrate far more on the 'big picture' or wide scope than the individual level. My judgement may change once I finish reading _Gardens of the Moon_, though -- I'll see.


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Sep 30, 2007)

I am reading Memories of Ice ..... man this book is gonna drive me crazy. This series is something that should be read many many times  ..... The non-linear storytelling is about different characters who are contributing to a climax. 

I rate it equal to Martin ATM .... but it will surely outstrip all others when i get down to reading them again.


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 1, 2007)

I have a question ... It is ok to read the Fifth book ... Midnight tides right after the third book ... Memories of Ice ??


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## jkingler (Oct 1, 2007)

Personally, I wouldn't. I would pick up House of Chains, since a lot happens in it. But you could skip any/all of the books, theoretically--Erikson writes with the aim that you can pick up the series from any point in the story.


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 1, 2007)

I couldnt buy house of chains  .... but i have Midnight tides with me ... begging to be read ..... 

hence the dilema. And i did the gravest mistake of going to Amazon and reading the reviews for the books. One fucking dumbass wrote about how the house of chains ends .... and spoilt the whole thing for me ...


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## jkingler (Oct 1, 2007)

He might have been lying. 

*recommends you pretend that that's the case


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 3, 2007)

Finished Memories of Ice ....... such a sad ending ...... 
remembers:

*Spoiler*: __ 



Itkovian's gift .... , Death of Bridgeburners , Fall of Moonspawn , Kallor


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## jkingler (Oct 3, 2007)

It's all fantastically well done and horrendously depressing. Even so, I wouldn't have it any other way. Well, maybe I would, since I miss some characters, but it's probably best that I don't get a choice in the matter. XD


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## Caladan Brood (Oct 3, 2007)

plzletmefrag said:


> Finished Memories of Ice ....... such a sad ending ......
> remembers:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



but what is death?


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 4, 2007)

U-Borat said:


> but what is death?



what do u mean by what is death ?? do u mean that i should have written 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Death of the Bridgeburners


 or did u mean that the 
*Spoiler*: __ 



bridgeburners havent died




*shruggs* Apologies for my grammatical mistake ... if any


----------



## Caladan Brood (Oct 4, 2007)

Well, I wasn't sure where you were up to in the series, so I didn't want to spoil anything lol...


----------



## Tyrael (Oct 4, 2007)

Lol, I've just started Bonehunter. Without actually having read any of the previous books. Yes i am crazy.


----------



## Rhaella (Oct 4, 2007)

I seriously recommend against doing that.


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## Mori` (Oct 4, 2007)

2/3's through Memories of Ice now :3


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## Rhaella (Oct 4, 2007)

FASTER.

There are so many references I'm dying to allude to with our new names.


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## jkingler (Oct 4, 2007)

> 2/3's through Memories of Ice now :3


Your first time reading through it? 

I thought you were as caught up as I am, if not moreso. XD

/on 600+ of Bonehunters


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## Caladan Brood (Oct 5, 2007)

O look all these super mods with completely original names.


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## Mori` (Oct 5, 2007)

my first time joe ^^


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## jkingler (Oct 5, 2007)

Nice! How are you liking it? I'm excited for you and I sympathize with all the emotions the book is surely taking you through.


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## Mori` (Oct 5, 2007)

its been fantastic so far, really enjoying this book.

I have the next 2 sitting by me as well to dig into xD


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## Dream Brother (Oct 5, 2007)

Quick Ben, FitzChivalry and Rhaella -- names from good fantasy series’ are becoming popular amongst the mods, eh? Neat.


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## Rhaella (Oct 5, 2007)

I would have stuck with Daenerys, but it's hard to spell.  Hence Rhaella.

I'll probably go back eventually, but I feel like being in High House Shadow. >_>


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## Mori` (Oct 5, 2007)

oh dear god the image of Hetan and Kruppe, its stuck 

--

several hours later I've finished memories of ice...wow

what an ending, sad, joyous, nicely wrapped up and yet open for more.


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 6, 2007)

Me Into Midnight tides ... but i have a biig exam coming up so i have kept it on hold ..... damn. mad

Can one change the profile name as in orkut??? .... i just chose this name a long time back since it sounded funny .... not anymore though 

Me wants a name change


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## jkingler (Oct 6, 2007)

> oh dear god the image of Hetan and Kruppe, its stuck


XD

Kruppe is awesome. Nuff said.


> several hours later I've finished memories of ice...wow
> 
> what an ending, sad, joyous, nicely wrapped up and yet open for more.


Man, wait until you get to The Bonehunters. I just finished it. Much the same, really. Much the same, though not nearly as epically and monstrously tragic, at least not IMO. Also, having just witnessed the Chain of Dogs resolution, I am sure that you will have strong feelings about the goings on in Malaz City. 

/loved The Bonehunters; now torn between Kalam Mekhar and Cotillion, where name changes are concerned


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 7, 2007)

AAAH man . When will i get my hands on Chain of Dogs.

But still, Midnight tides itself is interesting .... damn the exams [:X]


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## jkingler (Oct 7, 2007)

> AAAH man . When will i get my hands on Chain of Dogs.


Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
House of Chains
Midnight Tides
The Bonehunters
Reaper's Gale

That's the order of the books released thus far. The Chain of Dogs is an ongoing event that takes place in Deadhouse Gates--it's not a book in and of itself, though it easily could be. //

/thinks you would know this, seeing as a character taking place in the Chain of Dogs says the quote in your sig while on the Chain of Dogs XD

/wonders if you meant House of Chains


> But still, Midnight tides itself is interesting .... damn the exams [:X]


Don't read them out of order! 

/grieves for your mind as you stumble, headlong and confused, through MT, and also when you go back to read the other books and they aren't as cathartic as they should be


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 10, 2007)

yeah gomen gomen ... this stupid exam has everything turned upside down 

i really meant house of chains. And yeah Chain of dogs is a great event ... it deserves to be a book in its own right. Is there anything in fantasy fiction that even resembles that ? It seems pretty odd choice in the first place. 

And about reading them the second time round ... the more times i read a book ... the closer i get to the characters. I think Memories of Ice will be about 10 times better for me when i read it the second time. and the more number of times i read something i like, the better i keep enjoying them .... 

Midnight tides is interesting in its own way. It is either Midnight tides or read House of chains on he ebook format ... and belive me i dont want to go back to teh ebook format   . I had read all of Wheel of time in teh ebook format ... twice :


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## Mori` (Oct 12, 2007)

finished house of chains, very entertaining read.

I did ponder where it was going after the big Karsa thing at the beginning, and then it all clicked together and I was very content =p

onto memories of ice =p


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 12, 2007)

that does it .... i am reading the house of chains. I shall brave the terrors of reading on the computer for the sake of continuity


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## jkingler (Oct 13, 2007)

As it should be. Good decision, Feanor. 

finished house of chains, very entertaining read.


> I did ponder where it was going after the big Karsa thing at the beginning, and then it all clicked together and I was very content =p


Lovely, no? Karsa really is one of my faves, and easily. 


> onto memories of ice =p


You're re-reading it? Or do you mean Midnight Tides? 

/figures the latter, and if so, look forward to Letheras.


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## Rhaella (Oct 13, 2007)

I need to find some way to get a hold of Reaper's Gale without spending too much money. 



Feanor - The spirit of fire said:


> Midnight tides is interesting in its own way. It is either Midnight tides or read House of chains on he ebook format ... and belive me i dont want to go back to teh ebook format   . I had read all of Wheel of time in teh ebook format ... twice :



E-booking Wheel of Time sounds horrible, Fëanáro...

Though I do have just about every Asmodean chapter on my hard drive... >_>

It helps that he only survived one book.


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## jkingler (Oct 13, 2007)

> I need to find some way to get a hold of Reaper's Gale without spending too much money.


Well, I can Pay It Forward like Mike's doing for me (read: I can ship you the copy he's shipping me, after I finish it). It's only fair, as we're die-hard Mezlaficionados, and we're in this together. 

/dubs us the Bookhunters, Adjunct Kingler's 69th XD


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## Rhaella (Oct 13, 2007)

That's wonderful. 

Tell me when you're done. :3


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## Mori` (Oct 13, 2007)

> You're re-reading it? Or do you mean Midnight Tides?
> 
> /figures the latter, and if so, look forward to Letheras.



xD you figured correctly, I so wasn't with it yesterday >_<

that said I'm not with it today either really D:


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## jkingler (Oct 13, 2007)

Glad you like the idea, and I will send it on shortly after I am done reading. 

And no worries, Mori; I know how it is to be off your game for a while. XD

/loving all the Mezla love lately


----------



## Lucero del Alba (Oct 13, 2007)

> My problems with the third book:
> 1) Free will is thrown out. In the previous books, you got the feeling that people were making their own decisions. In this book, they revert back to the Homer-esque "pawn of the gods," where there is a pre-determined fate and the story is just how they got there. Why does it matter? Because it takes any suspense the book once had and ruins it. For instance, it doesn't matter what happens to Paran, he's destined to be "x." Yawn. I was rooting for the Crippled God.


Karsa shits on that, I think. All over its face, in fact.

Ganoes was pre-destined for anything, his steps led him to a singular inevitably. I think it' a pretty clear distinction.

Sorry for the backtrack, I was just going back through the thread, and was surprised, like everyone else.

The entire premise of this criticism strikes me as facetious. A great deal of the character in the series is about reconciling the schemes of the myriad gods and the lives of the mortals they seek to manipulate.

As becomes apparent later, and especially in Reaper's Gale, ascendants/gods do _not_ fuck with willful mortals. Quick Ben and 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 show us just how utterly true that is. Woe to the gods that think the mortals are their playthings. Woe indeed.

Furthermore, it becomes clear later that mortals, through worship and expectation define the gods' actions and personalities. It's a blatant reflection, no? The gods might play their games, but they are firmly and involuntarily [in most cases] chained to the minds of the people. This is a prominent theme in Reaper's Gale, as well.

I think conclusions were willfully jumped to in this appraisal, sadly.



> 2) Overused archetypes: the omniscient fool with godlike powers which only manifest when he's in danger, or a plot device is needed. Obviously, this is Kruppe. Sometimes in books, I am ready to suspend disbelief, which is the ultimate art of a fictional writer. Kruppe is a slap in the face to that notion. He reminds me that it's fiction. Also, Toc the Younger adventuring with a Ascendant. How boring. No thrill, just a sarcastic, omnipotent bitch. Reading about these two omnipotent beings, constantly slinging pseudo-witticisms at every opportunity had me yawning.


Again...I think you must be looking for a reason to hate here. Kruppe was clearly observed to be someone of unknown power, by the cotillion possessed apsalar, no less. Anomander knew it too, and I think at least one other that had the power to know. So he hides it and dances around behind a veil, for kicks or manipulation...I fail to see how that gives truth the the clearly undershooting archetype named for him here. 

A fellow noted by all worthy observers to be mysterious and oddly powerful, as well as intelligent to the point that he could slip out of the grasps of gods [which makes me laugh a bit since you unjustly hate him, even though in book three he was the strongest argument against your first criticism. Kruppe played Kruppe's games, not the gods, even including his meeting with the elder god K'rul, in a dream], and you label him as a fool who has secret power that comes out when he's in danger? I hope you're not referring to how he intentionally provoked Brood into attacking him and failing to harm him, to break the unbridled tension in the camp. That would be...truly ironic.

It's not even noted at that point that he has untoward power, just that he's fucking slippery, in all things. No one saw how he avoided it, or knows, and it certainly wasn't implied that he went face to hammer with the earth-shatterer. Just that he once again displayed his penchant for avoidance.

You thought lady envy was boring because she was a sarcastic bitch. That's a character concern, not a literary one. You seem to want to hide it under the idea that because ascendants are powerful, they're omnipotent, and thus bad writing. Then note that what becomes ascendancy is not power in any way, but personal essence. Envy is powerful because of who she is, not because she's ascended. There is some burgeoning, but you're confusing powerful individuals with ascendants in general. They are not even nearly mutually exclusive.

The last argument is just slow pace, and I shan't respond to that.


----------



## Rhaella (Oct 13, 2007)

Mmm, free will is an interesting concept in the series.

Perspective, I'm not sure that the fact that mortals can to a degree define the natures of the gods they worship actually works in favour of the theory of free will... determinism concerning gods would still be determinism.  Though it certainly is interesting that there's a sort of mutual bid for control going on here between gods and mortals.

Even if there is a mild deterministic theme in Malazan (and I do see how one could come to this conclusion, especially when taking into consideration... say, Kallor's curses), it's far more about clinging to free will instead and rebelling against that.  And that's definitely worthwhile.


And I _love_ the way gods are portrayed in Malazan.  You've got ones like Osric who actively flees his role, Anomander, who thinks his worshippers are idiots and ignores them... actually, that goes for Osric too. XD K'rul and Mael, more interested in humans... seems like an Elder God trait, really.  More traditional gods like Oponn and Hood, and then our all too human Malazan shadow gods...


----------



## Lucero del Alba (Oct 13, 2007)

> Perspective, I'm not sure that the fact that mortals can to a degree define the natures of the gods they worship actually works in favour of the theory of free will... determinism concerning gods would still be determinism. Though it certainly is interesting that there's a sort of mutual bid for control going on here between gods and mortals.
> 
> Even if there is a mild deterministic theme in Malazan (and I do see how one could come to this conclusion, especially when taking into consideration... say, Kallor's curses), it's far more about clinging to free will instead and rebelling against that. And that's definitely worthwhile.


Certainly. There is issue, as you say, of gods rebelling against it as well. Anomander completely/actively ignores his chains,  as does osric, as you said. Mael does so whenever he pleases. It really depends on the will of the individual. It essentially becomes - those gods who bleed their mortals for power are in turn chained to them, and those mortals who chain their gods are in turn bled for them. So it's less determinism than consequence.

It becomes quite a spiral, which is something that Erikson is saying with more fervor as the series gets on. For instance, the crippled god drew the broken to him as his people and they serve his will, but in turn, he is more crippled/flawed/twisted, and that's reflected back and forth.


----------



## Mori` (Oct 13, 2007)

> And I love the way gods are portrayed in Malazan.



This is what appeals to me so much in the series, the gods are portrayed in a variety of different ways and are by no means infallible or in control of everything going on.


----------



## Dream Brother (Oct 14, 2007)

I stopped reading _Gardens of the Moon_ when I was around halfway through; it didn't really grab me much (apart from a few flashes of excellence), and I was fairly busy at the time. Now that I've returned to reading it -- from the beginning again -- I've warmed to it a lot more, and I'm quite enjoying it so far.


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## jkingler (Oct 14, 2007)

> I stopped reading Gardens of the Moon when I was around halfway through; it didn't really grab me much (apart from a few flashes of excellence), and I was fairly busy at the time. Now that I've returned to reading it -- from the beginning again -- I've warmed to it a lot more, and I'm quite enjoying it so far.


From the build-up and climax of that first book all the way through to where the series leaves off now, it's a ride like no other. Look forward to it. Your patience and persistence will be rewarded.


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## Perverse (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm about to start the Darujhistan campaign in Gardens of the Moon, Jingles. No doubt, the action will intensify.


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## Dream Brother (Oct 14, 2007)

Kalam -- It gets even better? Very cool to hear, that. 

And Nub, that sig is glorious. _Hajime No Ippo_ is great stuff.


----------



## jkingler (Oct 14, 2007)

> I'm about to start the Darujhistan campaign in Gardens of the Moon, Jingles. No doubt, the action will intensify.


Yeah. You could say that. 


> It gets even better?


Much, much, _much_ better. What you're reading is important as it essentially the prologue to an amazing series, but it's by no mean the best part of that series. Not even close. 


> And Nub, that sig is glorious. Hajime No Ippo is great stuff.


Agreed on both counts. Makes me proud to have started the Ippo pimping project.


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 14, 2007)

Apsalar said:


> I need to find some way to get a hold of Reaper's Gale without spending too much money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I agree with you .... it was very bad. But it was either that or do acadeamic work  .... i read most of it when i was supposed to be doing some researach work 

But I dont regret my choice ... Robert Jordan was necessary to appreciate the better authors  ..... and my favourite was when Mat was had the spotlight. Maybe he was an alter-ego of RJ who was pissed off with what he created


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 14, 2007)

Kalam Mekhar said:


> Well, I can Pay It Forward like Mike's doing for me (read: I can ship you the copy he's shipping me, after I finish it). It's only fair, as we're die-hard Mezlaficionados, and we're in this together.
> 
> /dubs us the Bookhunters, Adjunct Kingler's 69th XD




I havent finished reading the fourth book yet but I have a copy of the Reapers Gale *dances around* ......... but i have a lot to chatch up to before i can put my hands on that book .....

The book is soo big  ...


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Oct 15, 2007)

Apsalar said:


> Even if there is a mild deterministic theme in Malazan (and I do see how one could come to this conclusion, especially when taking into consideration... say, Kallor's curses), it's far more about clinging to free will instead and rebelling against that.  And that's definitely worthwhile.
> 
> 
> And I _love_ the way gods are portrayed in Malazan.  You've got ones like Osric who actively flees his role, Anomander, who thinks his worshippers are idiots and ignores them... actually, that goes for Osric too. XD K'rul and Mael, more interested in humans... seems like an Elder God trait, really.  More traditional gods like Oponn and Hood, and then our all too human Malazan shadow gods...



I completely agree with the way gods work in the malazan empire. People say that they resemble the Greek gods .... the only similarity between the two is that the impermenance of the position.

I personally feel that the gods/mortals relationship is closer to Indian Mythology. Indian mythology has incidences where mortals ascend ... and where mortals recieve boons ... The incident in the Memories of Ice, where Krull takes care of an entire continent in order to save the world is remniscent of Lord Siva swallowing the poison in order to save the earth in the indian mythology. Sorry i couldnt get a link to that .... first time that wikipedia has failed me


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Feb 8, 2008)

bump ......  

why did people stop posting here ??


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## jkingler (Feb 8, 2008)

Because they are posting in the FC, most likely. 

/is fine, so long as Malazan is getting love


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Feb 9, 2008)

Noes ... not many check out the malazan FC either ... Only a few post there  

And i want my posts to count   lol ...

Rereading the Deadhouse gates ... they are at the Vathar Crossing. Duiker, riding with the foolish Dog clan finds a badly burnt ship sitting in the river.

Three men were staring visible onboard ....... 

 XD


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## Robotkiller (Feb 9, 2008)

I started the first book (Gardens of the moon) a few weeks ago and have been drudging through the first three-hundred or so pages since. I just want to ask without possibility of spoilers:

When in the world does this crap start to make any sense?!


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## jkingler (Feb 9, 2008)

It makes _more_ sense somewhere in the middle of Gardens.

Around the end of Gardens of the Moon and somewhere in Deadhouse Gates is when you get much more comfortable with all the intrigue, mystery, and your personal hypotheses. 

Trust us, though. It's more worth it than you can probably believe at this point.


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## Oskar von Reuental (Feb 9, 2008)

Robotkiller said:


> I started the first book (Gardens of the moon) a few weeks ago and have been drudging through the first three-hundred or so pages since. I just want to ask without possibility of spoilers:
> 
> When in the world does this crap start to make any sense?!



Stuff is revealed piecemeal with each book. It's fucking awesome.


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## jkingler (Feb 9, 2008)

> Stuff is revealed piecemeal with each book.


An entirely true understatement if I've ever heard one. XD


> It's fucking awesome.


/see previous reply to quote


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Feb 11, 2008)

@ those who are into the first book ...... 

I had been told not to judge the series entirely based on Gardens of the Moon. It is true that GoTM is a really hard book to get accustomed to .... but once you finish the first book, it gets really easy to read the others .... 

I am rereading the second book ... heavy spoilers ..... open at your own discretion


*Spoiler*: __ 




Just read the scene where Icarium, Mappo, Pust, Apsalar, Rellock and Fiddler camp outside the Tremorlor. All of them have settled down to sleep. Its Mappo's POV where he overhears Icarium and Apsalar having a conversation. 

Apsalar asks what Icarium would do once he finds his memories. I guess the significance of the question really hit me when I was reading it the second time. Apsalar who had someone else's memories with out her volition and Icarium whose memories keep running away from him .....


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## Tyrael (Nov 1, 2008)

I'm giving GotM another try after it defeated me before. I've heard so much good that it deserves a second try-what Erikson is trying to do has so much potential, but he seems to defeat himself with the way the books are structured.


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## The Bloody Nine (Nov 1, 2008)

Tyrael said:


> I'm giving GotM another try after it defeated me before. I've heard so much good that it deserves a second try-what Erikson is trying to do has so much potential, but he seems to defeat himself with the way the books are structured.



Not worth the bother. Sure the second and third books where pretty great but after that with the exception of Midnight Tides they go pretty dramatically downhill. 

To be honest though i have never seen a series as divisive as Malazan, people i thought would hate it loved it and people that i thought would love it hated it. 

In my opinion Malazan overall is very very much like Heroes the series; there are great moments but it quickly turns into mindless drama where the timeline makes no sense, the characters get bizarrely more powerful and the plot is pretty non-existant.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 1, 2008)

You know what's weird? I blew through Gardens of The Moon in a week, but Memories of Ice has taken months. Though I'm now curious about Midnight Tides. Despite the fact that the name Malazan now sends me into an epic murderous rage.


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## jackselectrichead (Nov 1, 2008)

Tyrael said:


> I'm giving GotM another try after it defeated me before. I've heard so much good that it deserves a second try-what Erikson is trying to do has so much potential, but he seems to defeat himself with the way the books are structured.



It's theoretically possible to start the series with Deadhouse Gates, I think. Especially if you've read at least a bit of GotM, although you'll be completely and utterly spoiled as to the ending of it and the character fates. Also you may not give a damn about characters you're supposed to want to follow, and you lose background on some of the plot lines.


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## Solar Bankai (Nov 1, 2008)

The Bonehunters is probably the weakest book (GotM aside).  I loved the rest.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 1, 2008)

jackselectrichead said:


> It's theoretically possible to start the series with Deadhouse Gates, I think. Especially if you've read at least a bit of GotM, although you'll be completely and utterly spoiled as to the ending of it and the character fates. Also you may not give a damn about characters you're supposed to want to follow, and you lose background on some of the plot lines.



I finish GotM  and when I reached Memories of Ice I didn't give a damn about characters I originally cared about if ever so slightly. 


Alright I'm just gonna stop and leave. If I stay any longer I'm gonna start trolling.


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## Rhaella (Nov 1, 2008)

^ CAW CAW CAW?

Hmm. Dammit, Toll the Hounds was due back at the library... yesterday. Hopefully I can go grab it soon.


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## Solar Bankai (Nov 1, 2008)

Rhaella said:


> ^ CAW CAW CAW?
> 
> Hmm. Dammit, Toll the Hounds was due back at the library... yesterday. Hopefully I can go grab it soon.



I'd recommend it.  Toll the Hounds is, IMO, one of the best in the series.


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## Rhaella (Nov 1, 2008)

Oh, of course I'll read it. I need a good Malazan fix to get rid of my "haven't finished a book in months" problem. xD I just don't want to have to buy it this time, hence... waiting.


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## Freija (Nov 1, 2008)

Well, thanks to peK recommending this to me, and my crazy search to find a hard cover (God I hate pocket) version of it, it's taken me like 3 months, but I'm finally started to read Gardens of the moon today =)


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## Lord Yu (Nov 1, 2008)

Good luck on your journey. Deadhouse Gates is worth it.


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## Taleran (Nov 1, 2008)

Yeah skipping book one of a series usually isn't a good idea


esepcially ones that seem to fit together bettter the more books you read


Midnight Tides


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## Freija (Nov 1, 2008)

Now I shall remove myself from this thread so I won't be spoilerized.


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## Lo$tris (Nov 1, 2008)

I've been wanting to read this series for sometimes now. I read in the first page of this thread that this series is kinda similar to Prince of Nothing trilogy, if it's true then it's worthwhile getting them.


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## Taleran (Nov 1, 2008)

Both authors are also Canadian


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## keiiya (Nov 2, 2008)

I haven't read any of Martin's books which is awful considering the great reviews I have been hearing about the saga. I'll be sure to read the book when I get the chance. I have though started reading Erikson's first book, Gardens of the Moon. I can't believe there is a thread about this series. (Yay.) No one I have spoken to has read this series. D:

This book did take me a while to get into because there is so much going on. There are a ton of charcters and I found it a little confusing to start with because you have to pay attention and piece together back stories from what you've read previously.

However this is what makes me like the book. The amount of history that is layed out is great and I love the politcal and miltary maneuvering. The use of magic, it's use in the war and those who can use it doesn't seem very well define but that again just makes me more curious. I have so many questions at the moment about the Warrens.

Even though you all seem to have read more of the series, I hope I can talk to you guys about it. 

*^_^*


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## Tyrael (Nov 10, 2008)

I'm fast on my way to becoming a Malazan fan-despite having previously given up on GotM. Damn glad I picked it back up again.


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## Taleran (Nov 10, 2008)

I've noticed something with this series thats never been true for me before, I'm liking each book more than the last


Bonehunters is


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## Lord Yu (Nov 10, 2008)

Tyrael said:


> I'm fast on my way to becoming a Malazan fan-despite having previously given up on GotM. Damn glad I picked it back up again.



Make it to Deadhouse Gates? I felt like a fan from the end of GotM through Deadhouse Gates. Just wait till you get past Memories of Ice before you consider yourself a fan.


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## Rhaella (Nov 18, 2008)

Just finished Toll the Hounds. As you can probably see by the name change. (And Tom, if you still read this thread, I understand your amusement now. xD)


*Spoiler*: _tl;dr_ 



Really, there are no words for how much I love Anomander Rake right now. Probably not as much as Cotillion (and Ammanas is beginning to catch up again), but messianic themes done so incredibly _right_...? Oh, yes. I love the utter nobility in that character, the way he's always capable of taking whatever action needs to be done. Honestly, guys. You know me. I don't usually like the heroic type characters, but Malazan is such an exception, because Erikson pulls it off so well.

I think, of course, it's also because in any other story, characters like Anomander Rake - aspected to darkness with their horrible swords of doom - would have been the villains, not such tragic heroes. Cotillion fits the same theme for me, since you've got so much humanity from a god who, by rights, you'd have thought would have shown none.

Obviously I loved Aranatha. Long before I realized what was going on with her. Nice to know that Mother Dark actually was taking an interest in things again prior to her son deciding to go all suicidal on us. ;_;

And I shall be mourning him for a very long time, even though he's not exactly dead. Not really. Loved everyone's reaction to that necessity, esp. Dassem's and Caladan's. Oi, anyone here read Sandman and think Caladan brings Destruction to mind?

Anyway, seeing Itkovian again was nice. Especially how that arc was entwined with the Tiste Andii one. Another extremely humane human-aspected god. I love how the shape of the Deck is slowly changing as the new, human Ascendants (Shadow, Paran, Itkovian, etc.) come into things and the older ones (Hood, maybe Rake? Not sure, since I think he's sort of become a god for real now) bow out.

Yes, the fourth part of this book was so much love.

And Traveller! Oh, Traveller! <3 I loved the unrecorded meeting between him and Cotillion towards the end, and how vague Cotillion's intent there really was... since he wasn't actually trying to stop him at all, was he? Actually, I love both his interactions with Shadow... but don't I just love it whenever _anyone_ meets Shadow, because it's always so epic.

Oh, God, you can see my priorities.

Karsa's meeting with the Shadow gods. <3 If only because I enjoyed how snarkily disdainful Cotillion was towards him. Karsa travelling with Dassem was wonderful as well, and the contrast between the two characters made me actually start to not dislike him so much.

And the Jaghut! Seeing all the Jaghut, with their deliciously dry senses of humour! Raest, Gothos again, and in one word: Hood! I get the feeling he's sort of like the primeval Jaghut Tyrant, really, since the power and authority necessary to set yourself up as God of Death seems like it fits the idea of a Jaghut Tyrant, and explains why they'd all up and go to war with him.

Draconus was wonderful. As were his daughters. Who are now oh, so screwed.

Pust+Kruppe was all kinds of epic. As was Ammanas being pathetic and letting Pust write the rules down. Such a wonderful explanation of how that idiot got to be the High Magus of Shadow. I'm sure everyone, especially Cotillion, is glad that that crisis of faith is over now.

I love the little hint into the way Ammanas and Cotillion work at the beginning of Ch18: "_A mind,_ Cotillion mused, _like mine.
But not his. When you stand at the centre of the game, no questions arise. How can that be? What is it like, to be the storm's eye? What happens, dear Shadowthrone, when you blink?_

I've always seen their relationship of being the kind between two people on opposite ends of the spectrum of genius: one, the mad visionary, so taken by the idea of the greater picture that he's got all of these brilliant plans and ideas, but to a degree, they remain just that: ideas, because he has no practical way of carrying them out. And, of course, the other, the schemer, who can put any plan into action, can see his way through any game, but doesn't quite have that great vision to be able to put this incredible talent to use. Complementary abilities, utter co-dependence. 

So glad that it's been hinted at now, in such a way.

I also love how these two keep on getting in over their heads, but you always know that they'll somehow be the ones left standing. <3

One final thing: was it just a typo in my book, or did Cotillion call Shadowthrone Ammeanas? Because way to have the warren of Shadow in a version of your name.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 18, 2008)

I just finished Bonehunters and picked up Gales from the library (Canada so they don't have Toll the Hounds in yet  )


but yeah Bonehunters was awesome depressing and then more awesome then more depressing



also I love the little nods he makes to other books seires, like for example the name of the country where Kallor's old kingdom was  
*Spoiler*: __ 



Jacuruku, Frank Herbert would be proud


----------



## Mori` (Nov 20, 2008)

welcome to the fandom Tal and everyone else who's read since I last dropped by, what happened with the other thread 

_"All good plans are diabolical" -Tehol Beddict_

delicious <3

--

oh wait this is an LD thread and not the FC lol...that'd be why ><


----------



## Rhaella (Nov 20, 2008)

^ I've made the same mistake before. XD


----------



## jkingler (Nov 20, 2008)

So, Rhae. Want to pay TtH forward my way? 

/still no read


----------



## Rhaella (Nov 20, 2008)

I would, but I don't think the library would be too happy about it. XD

I'm still trying to figure out which of the books I absolutely want to own... just bought MoI, since retrospectively, I think it's my favourite. TTH, not sure yet, but I might eventually just for the final section.


----------



## jkingler (Nov 20, 2008)

Ah. Your library has it...

Curses. >.<

/faves are MoI and MT, for shizzle


----------



## Rhaella (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, I got lucky this time. xD Nice change after the stuggle to get MT and Bonehunters.

My favourites seem to be dependent upon how many awesome scenes Cotillion and Ammanas have. D: *loves BH because of them*

Okkkay, topic of conversation for everyone: 

Considering the epic tragedy, are there any characters you expect to escape the series with a somewhat pleasant ending?

I'd be surprised if Apsalar's (and, to a lesser degree, Paran's) stories ended horribly.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm tempted to read Midnight Tides despite the epic rage that MoI induced. Am I strange?

Most rage caused by the Mhybe wangst fest btw.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 20, 2008)

your missing book 4 you know that?


I've liked each book more than the last, they build so well


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 21, 2008)

Some signs point to that I won't like book 4. Besides I hear read that the books are pretty standalone till book five. Probably won't read anyway due to aforementioned Grecian rage.


----------



## jkingler (Nov 21, 2008)

This! Is! MEZLA! 

/kicks Yu into book 4


----------



## Mori` (Nov 21, 2008)

> Besides I hear read that the books are pretty standalone till book five.



not really I don't think, you could probably dip in at any point but there's a lot of tie overs and interconnecting points and if you don't read book 4 you don't know who karsa is...which becomes quite vital later to understanding his character xD

book 4 deals with a lot of the same characters from book 2



> Considering the epic tragedy, are there any characters you expect to escape the series with a somewhat pleasant ending?



depends on if making it through the main series only to die in a follow on counts as a pleasant ending =p

nah I dunno, perhaps fid? QB will almost definately die in a mage over exertion thingy I think. After TtH i think there are a couple of recurring characters who might have made their main series exit without dying.


----------



## Rhaella (Nov 21, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> I'm tempted to read Midnight Tides despite the epic rage that MoI induced. Am I strange?
> 
> Most rage caused by the Mhybe wangst fest btw.



You! You need to learn the art of skimming parts you don't care for!

It's what's leaving me in an Ammanas/Cotillion inspired bliss!

Also, Chain of Memories is next for you.  And it's kind of necessary for the later stuff. 



Ammanas said:


> depends on if making it through the main series only to die in a follow on counts as a pleasant ending =p
> 
> nah I dunno, perhaps fid? QB will almost definately die in a mage over exertion thingy I think. After TtH i think there are a couple of recurring characters who might have made their main series exit without dying.



Weird things are going on with Quick. If he gets out of this still a fairly "good" character, I'll be happy, but... I don't know. Blood worship and sly glances from shadow gods...

I kind of feel like Apsalar is done with now. Was she in Reapers Gale at all?


----------



## Taleran (Nov 21, 2008)

All the books are nessesary


damn I wanted to put this in my sig but its too many words



> Denigration afflicted our vaunted ideals long ago, but such inflictions are difficult to measure, to rise up and point a finger to this place, this moment, and say: here, my friends, this is where our honour, our integrity died.
> 
> The affliction was too insipid, too much a product of our surrendering mindful regard and diligence. The meanings of words lost their precision-- and no-one bothered taking to task those who cynically abused those words to serve their own ambitions, their own evasion of personal responsibility. Lies went unchallenged, lawful pursuit became a sham, vulnerable to graft, and justice itself became a commodity, mutable in imbalance. Truth was lost, a chimera to match agenda, prejudices, thus consigning the political process to a mummer's charade of false indignation, hypocritical posturing and a pervasive contempt for the commonry.
> 
> ...



so I had to just use part of it


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 21, 2008)

Despite my ADD, I'm not much of a skimmer. I like to soak up every little bit and piece of symbolism and philosophy however banal. I'm a true literary intellectual.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 21, 2008)

THEN YOU DON'T SKIP BOOKS!


----------



## Rhaella (Nov 21, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> Despite my ADD, I'm not much of a skimmer. I like to soak up every little bit and piece of symbolism and philosophy however banal. I'm a true literary intellectual.





Taleran said:


> THEN YOU DON'T SKIP BOOKS!





Anyway, I wish I could say the same thing, but I'm just so character driven that I have difficulty reading any I don't care about. It's easier once I've read through to the end, of course, and I should go back and reread everything, but... not sure I can handle the Mhybe myself.


----------



## keiiya (Nov 24, 2008)

Argh! I'm so behind everyone else. D: 


*Spoiler*: _>.<_ 



I'm still trying to figure out which spies are spying on who and why.

I want to be able to pick a favourite character but so far it's so hard because there are no dominate characters that you instantly fall in love with and all the characters have interesting tales. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. Maybe I'll pick Dujek for now. 

Paran being a puppet of Oponn makes me question everything he does and Hairlock gives me the creeps. I would also love to see Anomander Rake and Caladan Brood see a little more action though. ><

I really hope the other books have this much depth.


----------



## Rhaella (Nov 24, 2008)

keiiya said:


> Argh! I'm so behind everyone else. D:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _>.<_
> ...



At your point... my favourites were probably Quick Ben and Anomander Rake. *ponders* And Paran fails as a puppet. XD

And don't worry, there'll be more Anomander Rake and Caladan Brood in the third book! And then not again till the eighth.


----------



## keiiya (Nov 24, 2008)

I don't think I have seen enough of Anomander Rake to comment. He just seemed like a wonderfully layered character. :3

I think I like Toc even more that Paran. Paran personality seems very plain. Maybe I am just missing something.


----------



## Rhaella (Nov 24, 2008)

Paran becomes all kinds of wonderful by the sixth book or so. XD I admit I didn't care for him in the beginning either, but now. Oh, yes. 

Toc is great. <3 Anomander Rake... wait till book 3. That's where you really start to see what he's like. And, of course, the only character I fangirl more than him is Cotillion (whom you start to get to know... in either book 3 or 4). Which says a lot about both of them. <333


----------



## jkingler (Nov 24, 2008)

Haha, I like the name bit in your sig, Rhae-rhae. 



Someone, be sure to post when TtH is out in MMPB. That's when I'll be getting it, as much as the weight of this wait is killing me.


----------



## Lord Yu (Nov 24, 2008)

Does someone eat Crone? Because that would go a great deal toward me reading more.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 24, 2008)

She doesn't appar that often for a while (at least up till book 6)


----------



## keiiya (Dec 4, 2008)

In GotM, I am wondering why Oponn entered the fray?
As far as I can tell it just seems that they wanted to just meddle in everyones plans and play the game. Is this it or is there some other motivation?

Also why is Shadowthrone so opposed to the Empire? I can't seem to find any reasons mentioned in the book.


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 4, 2008)

keiiya said:


> In GotM, I am wondering why Oponn entered the fray?
> As far as I can tell it just seems that they wanted to just meddle in everyones plans and play the game. Is this it or is there some other motivation?
> 
> Also why is Shadowthrone so opposed to the Empire? I can't seem to find any reasons mentioned in the book.



I think they're just meddlers by nature. They haven't really showed up that much since.

Ahahaha, Ammanas. <3 Ummm... yes. There are reasons. _Big_ reasons. I believe, looking back, that they were hinted at in GotM, but... you'll definitely come by them in the next book.


*Spoiler*: _Hint_ 



It's all about who Ammanas and Cotillion once _were_, pre-Ascension.


----------



## keiiya (Dec 4, 2008)

I see. Thanks for clearing that up. I should be onto the second book soon. :3


*Spoiler*: _Curious again_ 



When Paran is within Dragnipur and he summons Oponn, is there any reason the brother turned up rather than the sister and why did Paran want the sister instead?


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 4, 2008)

keiiya said:


> I see. Thanks for clearing that up. I should be onto the second book soon. :3
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Curious again_
> ...



Very good!


*Spoiler*: __ 



IIRC, the thing is that he is the luck that pushes, and she, that pulls. Bad luck versus good luck.


----------



## keiiya (Dec 4, 2008)

That theme seems to run through the whole book. That and similar phrases pop up here and there.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 4, 2008)

Im just confirming something later on 
*Spoiler*: _Bugg_ 



Mael right?


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 4, 2008)

^       Yep.


----------



## jkingler (Dec 4, 2008)

You want to be spoiled about that? 

/can't imagine, haets spoilz


----------



## Taleran (Dec 4, 2008)

not spoiled confirmation so much drops in all thse books sometimes hard to keep track of it all


Gales is pretty awesome


----------



## Mori` (Dec 7, 2008)

how far through RG are you now? I really loved that book <3



> In GotM, I am wondering why Oponn entered the fray? As far as I can tell it just seems that they wanted to just meddle in everyones plans and play the game. Is this it or is there some other motivation?



They are definately meddlers xD You'll notice throughout the books that the "powers that be" tend to regularly be vying for advantage within the pantheon depending on what their own personal agendas are. 

Oponn perhaps seem more meddlesome than a lot of the gods on account of their nature, luck being something they can push on mortals a lot more readily and obviously than a god with rather less obvious natures e.g. Nerruse, lady of fair seas lol (that and the book focusing on them and some specific people they've influenced =p)


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 7, 2008)

Saw Toll The Hounds at the book store. Still don't understand why I'm posting here when it's looking fairly obvious that I will have nothing but bitter rage if I continue reading.


post count + 1.


----------



## keiiya (Dec 8, 2008)

Why the rage? n_n


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

Because the series is way too overindulgent and some points pretentious. The characters go on way too many over the top epic rants forcing it far and away out of the realm of believability. Then there's the sometimes copy pasta characterization.(Happens most often with females. *cough* blend and picker*fake cough) Mindless drama resulting in Narm moments abound. Romance that generally amounts to hey you're a guy and I'm a girl let's get together! I love the epic plot twists and action scenes but I hate having to dig through 200 pages of wank to reach them.


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 8, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> Romance that generally amounts to hey you're a guy and I'm a girl let's get together!



THOSE AREN'T REQUIREMENTS IN MEZLA.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Dec 8, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> Because the series is way too overindulgent and some points pretentious. The characters go on way too many over the top epic rants forcing it far and away out of the realm of believability. Then there's the sometimes copy pasta characterization.(Happens most often with females. *cough* blend and picker*fake cough) Mindless drama resulting in Narm moments abound. Romance that generally amounts to hey you're a guy and I'm a girl let's get together! I love the epic plot twists and action scenes but I hate having to dig through 200 pages of wank to reach them.



Oh shit. Not only did you accurately and concisely manage to summarise the whole malazan series, you also managed to link in TvTropes giving about an extra half an hour to procrastinate. 

Thank you good sir!

Anyhow the only reason i came into this thread is to ask Ammanas what the hell is up with all the Wire avatars ? Is there a pimping project going on ? If there is can i join ? Also i call dibs on the Bunk!


----------



## Crowe (Dec 8, 2008)

^ I was also trying to reply to something in this thread so I could ask him about The Wire avatars but instead gave him just a rep, lol.

Anyway I just started over on the Mezla series while looking for a new book to read ;]


----------



## Taleran (Dec 8, 2008)

Ammanas said:


> how far through RG are you now? I really loved that book <3




Letherii Countstroke at the gates of Lethras


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

Rhaella said:


> THOSE AREN'T REQUIREMENTS IN MEZLA.



Missed this post. 

If you're not gonna do it right don't do it at all. I hate having my eyes roll out of my head at the cheap attempts at romance in Malazan.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 8, 2008)

Obviously the ways you have it defined to be done in your head is the only possible way


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

I define it with basis. When romance springs merely because one person is male another is female and they happen to be in near proximity I feel insulted. It's less than a Hollywood action flick romance.


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 8, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> Missed this post.
> 
> If you're not gonna do it right don't do it at all. I hate having my eyes roll out of my head at the cheap attempts at romance in Malazan.



 I meant that a guy and a girl aren't required, since there are quite a few homosexual relationships.

That said, the only relationship that really stays with me is Anomander Rake/Silannah.  And Rake/Envy, which isn't even onscreen at all, but  seems to have been epically disastrous.


----------



## keiiya (Dec 8, 2008)

I can understand where Yu is coming from though I can only comment on the first book. This didn't have a great amount of romance in it but the little snippets that were present felt a bit meh. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



The ParanXTattersail and even the mini CrokusXApsalar.


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 8, 2008)

Paran x Tattersail never happened! 

Cutter x Apsalar doesn't bother me, though I prefer the Ammanas/Cotillion/Apsalar dynamic in its entirety. Since Cotillion's emoting seems the most effectively handled.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

Rhaella said:


> I meant that a guy and a girl aren't required, since there are quite a few homosexual relationships.
> 
> That said, the only relationship that really stays with me is Anomander Rake/Silannah.  And Rake/Envy, which isn't even onscreen at all, but  seems to have been epically disastrous.



Thus I will amend my argument as a hole and something to plug it with.(whether it be a penis or a finger)

But you get my meaning.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 8, 2008)

Its not like the characters have the free time to set up the relationships you demand of them especially considering most of the relationships are inside the Marines


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

Love springs everywhere. And in time lies the drama. In my novel I present a case of a soldier in love with his superior. The conflict being of emotion and duty. Free time is not required for love only chemistry.


----------



## keiiya (Dec 8, 2008)

In my case, I wasn't looking for there to be relationships. I would have been just as happy if it was just about politics and war, etc. However since relationships were included in the book, I would have liked there to have been a little more to them.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

I came for carnage,  atmosphere and adventure. I didn't want the romance either.


----------



## Crowe (Dec 8, 2008)

Rhaella said:


> I meant that a guy and a girl aren't required, since there are quite a few homosexual relationships.
> 
> That said, the only relationship that really stays with me is Anomander Rake/Silannah.  And Rake/Envy, which isn't even onscreen at all, but  seems to have been epically disastrous.


Whiskeyjack x Korlat?


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 8, 2008)

Then why are you annoyed that it's barely developed? It's obviously not the focus, but that doesn't mean that there's nothing going on beneath that makes its way to the surface of the novels in one shape or another.

The only one I could really see being a problem is the Korlat/Whiskeyjack thing, since it comes out of nowhere even though she should be smarter than that. And maybe the aforementioned P/T and A/C.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

Whiskeyjack x Korlat is the pill that helped induce this romance rant.


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 8, 2008)

mister. pek said:


> Whiskeyjack x Korlat?



Bah, slain by database error.

...that stays with me in a good way. XD I never quite understood why the Tiste Andii all suddenly fell in love with Whiskeyjack.

Rake/Silannah and Rake/Envy I _like_.


----------



## jkingler (Dec 8, 2008)

> Thus I will amend my argument as a hole and something to plug it with.


Welcome to war/pillaging/jail/college/etc.


> Best romance ever.


I beg to differ.

Pust x Mogora 4 lyf.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

I prefer the Abercrombie take on things of that nature.


----------



## jkingler (Dec 8, 2008)

I've gathered as much. 

I still have to check Abercrombie out. I'll do so the next time I find myself in a bookstore.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 9, 2008)

So I finished Gales


*Spoiler*: __ 





FUCK YEAR that was awesome, those 3 annoying dragons finally got their asses murdered, more awesome from Karsa Tethol and Bugg, BEAK! and Hedge and Fiddler together again oh and Byrs

Good end, well almost Thrull ;_;


----------



## Mori` (Dec 10, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Trull TT___TT

that was definately a fuck you erikson moment you bastard moment

=

QBs beating on the 3 soletaken had me in a giddy fit of glee =p


----------



## Taleran (Dec 10, 2008)

It only helped that I hated reading it whenever those three were the focus

oh and I forgot



*Spoiler*: __ 



Toc Motherfucking Toc ;_; and Tool ;_;


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 11, 2008)

I liked the three sisters because of their names. XD And their extended family. >_>

I'M SO WEAK AGAINST DRAGONS!

*still prefers Envy and Spite*


----------



## Muk (Dec 11, 2008)

is this on google books?


----------



## Lucero del Alba (Dec 12, 2008)

Heh, Yu think people don't/shouldn't/can't fuck just 'cause. That's silly.

/edits memoirs

Only if you don't talk after, right?


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 12, 2008)

I know, I am a strong believer in the casual bump. I just don't like pretensions of a relationship when there is clearly only air between the two.


----------



## Solar Bankai (Dec 12, 2008)

I hope Silchas is in Book 9.  He has such potential to be awesome, potential thus far denied thanks to Reaper's Gale.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 12, 2008)

He deserved what came to him


----------



## Mori` (Dec 17, 2008)

Taleran said:


> He deserved what came to him



_"Fucking Dragon"_


----------



## Taleran (Dec 22, 2008)

I finished Toll over the past week

MY FREAKING GOD, can my like for this series get any higher


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 22, 2008)

I wonder what Draconus will do now that he's apparently back.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 22, 2008)

I want an entire book written about this


"Yes, an entire people gathered, a host of singular will...When they marched, swords beating on shields, time itself found measure..."


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 22, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _D_ 



 I just want Anomander Rake back.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 22, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I did not think I could find a fictional death that noble




other note

its been revealed that Dreams ends on a massive cliffhanger to go into the final book and thats gonna make the wait unbearable


oh and I hope the next book has Skinner and Second finally meeting up


----------



## Rhaella (Dec 22, 2008)

Taleran said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I did not think I could find a fictional death that noble




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 



Dream


 from Sandman had one equally touching, I thought, but yes. It's definitely up there. The epic tragedy of it I would not take back.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 22, 2008)

I really hope they keep doing these for the rest of the books






125 is a steep price however


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 22, 2008)

I'm guessing that's when the Bridgeburners find Hairlock and Tattersail.    Looks awesome.


----------



## jkingler (Dec 22, 2008)

That was my guess as well. The art is amazing. The only thing I'm wondering about...if that's Quick, with the bundle, then why is he not...blacker?


----------



## Taleran (Dec 22, 2008)

that is the first thing people picked out both Kalam and Quick should be darker


neway


*Spoiler*: _MOAR_ 














RAEST!!!!! :mexican:


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Dec 22, 2008)

You guys do know that Ian Cameron Esselmont co-wrote the series and that he has two books out right ?

I mean alot of you are asking questions that have already been answered in Return of the Crimson Guard.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 22, 2008)

I haven't read any of the side books yet


but thats the plan between now and the Release of Dreams


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 22, 2008)

Taleran said:


> I haven't read any of the side books yet
> 
> 
> but thats the plan between now and the Release of Dreams



Pretty much this.


----------



## neodragzero (Dec 23, 2008)

Taleran said:


> RAEST!!!!! :mexican:



Imagine how badass he would sound on a luchadore stage while saying his quotes in rapidfire Spanish?


The Bloody Nine said:


> You guys do know that Ian Cameron Esselmont co-wrote the series and that he has two books out right ?
> 
> I mean alot of you are asking questions that have already been answered in Return of the Crimson Guard.


How good are those two books anyway?


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Dec 23, 2008)

neodragzero said:


> How good are those two books anyway?



Well i gave up on actually buying Malazan books a long time ago, so i couldn't tell you personally. Though the consensus from all the reviews and spoilers i have read seem to say that while ICE is a decent writer he just isn't Erikson.

His first book Night of Knives was about Kellenaved and Dancer's ascension. It was only a novella though.

His second book was a full fledged massive novel.Talking from the spoilers i read, more happened in this book then the last three of Erikson. 

Anyway ICE should be cool. He is the one that will be writing the stories about.. aww shit i forgot the name...you know that continent that everybody agrees is the most dangerous in the malaz world.

PS - yeah your all right Quck and Kalam should have been much dark. Oh and i reckon Kalam should have been bigger and broader. Still nice art.

Edit- Taleran where did you get the art from ?


----------



## Mori` (Dec 23, 2008)

ICE isn't Erikson but he's still pretty good, rather more gritty/simple than poetic/philosophical I guess which lends itself well to war imo.

I didn't think NoK was brilliant aside from a couple of passage, RotCG on the other hand is definately worth the read with most of the book being epic (I'm still undecided on whether I found it more enjoyable than TtH or not, they both had their niggly bits xD). 

Esslemont recently closed the deal for him to write more books with transworld in the Malazan empire with Stoneweilder (that'll be focusing on Korelri) being due early 2010.

@the bloody nine, the continent you're thinking of is Assail.

the art is by Michael Komarck and is from the limited edition of gardens of the moon expected out anytime soon, we had some discussion on it in the fc a while back when it first started showing up ^^

also to add, NoK is something of a side book (probably best read post bonehunters for character comprehension) but RotCG really fits into the direct plotline in that it occupies a timespace after BH/RG but before Toll.


----------



## Dudemancool (Jan 14, 2009)

Great series, first book was good, second book was great, third book was less so, fourth and fifth book were both amazing.

Kruppe is fucking hilarious, how could anybody not like him >_>


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Feb 25, 2009)

Any fan of malazan has to check out this talented artist's


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 25, 2009)

Seen that dude before

He also does 40k stuff which is a damn good plus


----------



## Mori` (Mar 26, 2009)

oi malaz'fiends

*dust of dreams prologue*



git 'er dun

==

also

==


----------



## Taleran (Apr 8, 2009)

I've been debating just waiting till Crippled God comes out and reading both back to back

but I don't think I'll be able to hold out


----------



## Crowe (Apr 10, 2009)

Argh! That's it. I'm ordering The Return of the Crimson Guard now and I'll e-read Night of Knives.


*Spoiler*: _regarding Bridgeburner/Tanno song_ 



So how does it work? Do they all leave Hood and his little backyard when they ascend? I can't really recall how Hedge made it back to flesh but if he made it back - can't Whiskeyjack just leave Hood? Though I doubt he'd leave it because he has a very strong sense of justice/duty


----------



## neodragzero (Apr 25, 2009)

Okay, I just finished Midnight Tides. I still find myself thinking that the Tiste Edur need culling but I actually find Rhulad, Trull, etc. to be interesting, and somewhat good, characters. I look forward to seeing more of Shurq's "pirates."


----------



## Taleran (May 24, 2009)

book five is all about Tethol and his genius


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 24, 2009)

Midnight Tides' different setting caught me off-guard at first but it turned out to be one of my favorites in the series

Tal, have you read the Dust of Dreams prologue?


----------



## Taleran (May 24, 2009)

nah imma wait for whole book


----------



## Nimander (Jul 13, 2009)

I must bump this thread for the epicness of its content.  Besides, DoD is due to arrive in a month and a half, and I cannot f***ing wait!

P.S. That art at the top of the page is beyond epic.  Strangely enought, that drawing of Rake is very close to what I envisioned him as in my imagination

Real spoilers: read at your own peril:

*Spoiler*: __ 



I miss you, Rake!!!!!


----------



## neodragzero (Jul 29, 2009)

*
K'Chain Che'Malle!!!*

From:
Real Life


----------



## jkingler (Jul 29, 2009)

That's pretty awesome. :amazed


----------



## Nimander (Jul 29, 2009)

I always imagined them as being more dragon like than dinosaur looking myself.  But I won't deny that the pic looks nice.


----------



## neodragzero (Jul 29, 2009)

1TrueSensei said:


> I always imagined them as being more dragon like than dinosaur looking myself.  But I won't deny that the pic looks nice.



Dragon like? They were practically described as raptors with swords for arms. The mother of the entire race didn't sound dragon like either.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 29, 2009)

Those Seguleh must have had one hell of a training program if they could kill K'ell Hunters with only sword skills


----------



## Lord Genome (Jul 29, 2009)

why idd i just notice this

im getting Deadhouse gates today CD


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 29, 2009)

Cool

You really need to catch up

The ninth book is coming out soon


----------



## neodragzero (Jul 29, 2009)

Man, I still need to read Bonhunters, Reaper's Gale, and Toll of Hounds...Hooray!


----------



## Nimander (Jul 29, 2009)

The Seguleh are basically the most badass mortals in the story.  This has been hinted at many times, and I'm thinking that when the "final war" occurs they'll play a huge part, either for good or ill.


----------



## neodragzero (Jul 29, 2009)

They are the most badass...save that of certain Bridgeburners of course and Coltaine. Did you guys happen to see the Seguleh art Slaine69 did? It's killer.


----------



## The Imp (Aug 2, 2009)

I've been reading Deadhouse Gates. I'm about half way through. 

Felisin is such a bitch.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 2, 2009)

Felisin gets less bitchy towards the end 

Besides, you'll probably forget about her when you finish reading DG because Coltaine and the Seventh Army are by far the most memorable characters in it


----------



## The Imp (Aug 2, 2009)

Coltaine seems alright so far. 

Icarium and Mappo are a bit boring. How do they turn out later?


----------



## Lord Yu (Aug 2, 2009)

I hated Mappo and Icarium. They seemed present only to wangst about stuff. The book would have been ten times better without them.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 4, 2009)

Oh, yeah.  Coltaine's story is one of the high points of the series, and is some of Erikson's best writing so far.  

Mappo and Icarium...*shrugs*.  I get the feeling too that they're just there for wangst value, though I won't deny Icarium's inherent badassery. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



There are some people who think being on the same _continent_ with him when he's pissed off is too close for comfort.  You don't get much more badass than that.


----------



## isanon (Aug 7, 2009)

jkingler said:


> if you enjoy Robert Jordan but wish some characters would just die




my problem with this series is that the characters i hate the most survives


----------



## The Imp (Aug 7, 2009)

60 more pages and I'm done Deadhouse Gates.

Coltaine


----------



## indr (Aug 10, 2009)

Does any one know the when Dust of Dreams will be released in Canada?


----------



## Nimander (Aug 12, 2009)

*checks wikipedia*

Amazon Canada has a tentative release date of...January 26, 2010?!  They pushed it back five months?!

*stabs publishers*  It just better still be released in the states in September, otherwise someone's gonna have hell to pay


----------



## Nimander (Aug 13, 2009)

ARGH!!!

They has pushed the release date of Dust of Dreams back to January!  Whyyyyyy?!

*tears clothes and pours ashes in hair*

Now I know how George R.R. Martin fans feel  First you split the Wheel of Time finale into four books, and now this?  Damn you, Tor.  Damn you to the deepest pits of hell.

Now all I have to look forward to this year is Patrick Rothfuss and...Jim Butcher!  I forgot about him.  I feel somewhat happier now, though Tor is still on my shit list.



Bastards...


----------



## Crowe (Aug 14, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> Man, I still need to read Bonhunters, Reaper's Gale, and Toll of Hounds...Hooray!


Bonehunters <3333333! Definitely the best book in the series.


1TrueSensei said:


> ARGH!!!
> 
> They has pushed the release date of Dust of Dreams back to January!  Whyyyyyy?!
> 
> ...


WHAT? WAHAT? WHAT?!?! WHATTT?! I pre-ordered mine just the other day from Amazon UK. Please post link.

" *This title will be released on August 18, 2009*."

Still says so on amazon.


----------



## Nae'blis (Aug 14, 2009)

I started this series a while back after my namesake moridin changed his username to Ammanas. After the first read I wasn't sure how I felt, but now I think I like this series.


----------



## The Imp (Aug 14, 2009)

pek said:


> Bonehunters <3333333! Definitely the best book in the series.
> 
> WHAT? WAHAT? WHAT?!?! WHATTT?! I pre-ordered mine just the other day from Amazon UK. Please post link.
> 
> ...



It's the Canadian release that is pushed back till January.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 14, 2009)

I believe that the US release has been pushed back as well, and I don't have the cash yet to order books from the UK.  Plus, every time I've ordered something from the internet, I never get it

Since G. R.R. Martin screwed his fans over once again with another postponement of ADwD, I was looking forward to this as my summer release reading.  Now Tor has torn out a piece of my soul


----------



## Taleran (Aug 15, 2009)

Chapters still has it listed as September 1st


----------



## Segan (Aug 15, 2009)

All right, there's just a small question, and the answer should be either a "yes" or a "no".

*Related to Tiste Edur in the third and fourth books of the series*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Is the Tiste Edur that was found by the Moranth, Paran and Quick Ben - before their assault on Coral - the same as Trull Sengar who has been cast out by his fellow Tiste Edur in the prologue of House of Chains (which happened like five years prior to the former event)?


----------



## Mori` (Aug 15, 2009)

only a couple of days left, being english has it's uses

@Segan, my memory is shaky but I'm assuming you mean the Edur they find that they decide was killed by some kind of a massive pressure in the trench? It's not trull, you'll find out in book 5 how it happened though it's not really a major point, just a nice connection xD


----------



## Segan (Aug 15, 2009)

Ok, thanks for the info.


----------



## Segan (Aug 18, 2009)

Haha, I really like Karsa Orlong. He quite reminds me of Guts.


*Spoiler*: __ 




Karsa: "I shall break his [the Crippled God's] chains-"
Siballe: "I am pleased-"
Karsa: "And then kill him."




I hope, we get a Godslayer on our hands.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 18, 2009)

Karsa is definitely one of the gems of the series.  Karsa, Kruppe, Rake, and the Bridgeburners collectively are my favorite characters of the series.


----------



## Hancock (Aug 19, 2009)

Finished Gardens of the Moon yesterday...it was godly. I can't wait until i get off my ass and go to the bookstore to purchase Deadhouse Gates.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 19, 2009)

Hancock said:


> Finished Gardens of the Moon yesterday...it was godly. I can't wait until i get off my ass and go to the bookstore to purchase Deadhouse Gates.



Yes.  As far as introductory books go to series I've read, GotM was indeed godly.  Still has one of the best fucking climaxes to a novel I've ever read.  Erikson was definitely at his best in that story.


----------



## Segan (Aug 21, 2009)

Praise to Tehol Beddict. I swear, he's the most shining brilliant gem in the whole fifth book. Followed by Bugg, of course.


----------



## Mori` (Aug 23, 2009)

Segan said:


> Praise to Tehol Beddict. I swear, he's the most shining brilliant gem in the whole fifth book. Followed by Bugg, of course.



Tehol <333

Bugg <333

They're both all kinds of awesome, for all kinds of different reasons ^^


----------



## crazymtf (Aug 24, 2009)

Got the first book, hope i enjoy.


----------



## Segan (Aug 26, 2009)

crazymtf said:


> Got the first book, hope i enjoy.


I somewhat doubt it. If only because I can't imagine you reading a fantasy book.


----------



## Segan (Aug 27, 2009)

Again, Karsa Orlong is just pure win 


*Spoiler*: __ 



First he he goes toe to toe with a Short-Tail (a K'Chain Che'Malle of sorts) and pounds its head flat. Then he proceeds to the next room and helps himself with some wine after sneering at a painting of gods on the ceiling.




This would make an awesome movie sequence.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 27, 2009)

Karsa never disappoints


----------



## crazymtf (Aug 27, 2009)

Segan said:


> I somewhat doubt it. If only because I can't imagine you reading a fantasy book.



Well I've been reading a few as of late, and loving the third book of a song of ice and fire, if it can be 1/10th as good I'll enjoy it.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 1, 2009)

Has anyone here read any of the novellas in Bauchelain and Korbal Broach: Three Short Novels of the Malazan Empire, Volume One?
Leichenfaust 44

Just wondering if it's...who am I kidding, it's freaking Steve Erikson. Of course it's worth buying.


----------



## The Imp (Sep 1, 2009)

I just finished Memories of Ice. 

At the end I started laughing when Tool was about to get laid. Hetan is awesome.


----------



## Nimander (Sep 1, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> Has anyone here read any of the novellas in Bauchelain and Korbal Broach: Three Short Novels of the Malazan Empire, Volume One?
> Austrian Death Machine
> 
> Just wondering if it's...who am I kidding, it's freaking Steve Erikson. Of course it's worth buying.



Actually, those aren't written by Steven Erikson.  They're written by his friend, Ian Esselmont.  I've heard that they aren't as good as the official series, but I've yet to read them and make my own judgment so *shrugs*.  I'll catch up with 'em one day.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 1, 2009)

1TrueSensei said:


> Actually, those aren't written by Steven Erikson.  They're written by his friend, Ian Esselmont.  I've heard that they aren't as good as the official series, but I've yet to read them and make my own judgment so *shrugs*.  I'll catch up with 'em one day.



... The author listing says Steve Erikson. I have a feeling that you're thinking about the Crimson Guard returns and the other book before that.


----------



## Segan (Sep 3, 2009)

"...and with a loud grund, Stormy began defecating."

The series is full of awesome characters, ain't it?


----------



## Mori` (Sep 3, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> ... The author listing says Steve Erikson. I have a feeling that you're thinking about the Crimson Guard returns and the other book before that.



You are quite correct in your correction ^^

---

as for Esslemont not being part of "the official malazan series", the world is as much his as it is Eriksons; Steve just started writing stories from it before Ian did.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 3, 2009)

I've finally started reading Bonehunters.


----------



## Rhaella (Sep 3, 2009)

*pops in*

When's the next book out again?


----------



## Nimander (Sep 4, 2009)

Dust of Dreams, the publication of which has been pushed back in America

Damn you, Tor Publishing


----------



## Segan (Sep 4, 2009)

1TrueSensei said:


> Dust of Dreams, the publication of which has been pushed back in America
> 
> Damn you, Tor Publishing


Huh? Makes no sense, it's already available in UK/Europe.


----------



## Nimander (Sep 4, 2009)

The publishing company in UK and the one in North America are totally different.  By the time Erikson novels make the shelves here, they have completely different covers even (Tor thinks their cover artists are better than European ones obviously).


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 4, 2009)

I don't really mind when the book supposedly ends on a cliffhanger anyway. And that I just started Bonhunters.


----------



## Mori` (Sep 4, 2009)

Rhaella said:


> *pops in*
> 
> When's the next book out again?



*has read it*

la la la la laa


----------



## Segan (Sep 4, 2009)

K'Chain Che Malle aren't zombies, neo. Not normally, at least.


----------



## Rhaella (Sep 4, 2009)

Moridin said:


> *has read it*
> 
> la la la la laa



...and what did you think? xD *prods*


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 4, 2009)

Segan said:


> K'Chain Che Malle aren't zombies, neo. Not normally, at least.



The ones in my sig, and the only ones left anyway, are. We only get to see them alive during a flashback for Midnight Tides. Seriously though, I wish there was some art for a lot of the creatures that are way powerful...


----------



## Mori` (Sep 4, 2009)

Rhaella said:


> ...and what did you think? xD *prods*



enjoyable, a little awkward since it's obviously a 2 parter, but there was a pretty defined end to this half anyway.


*Spoiler*: __ 



lacked Amma/Cot T_T




I'll go for something more detailed later ^^

==



neodragzero said:


> The ones in my sig, and the only ones left anyway, are. We only get to see them alive during a flashback for Midnight Tides.



...heh


----------



## Rhaella (Sep 4, 2009)

DDD: @ spoiler

A two-parter? Don't tell me he pulled a GRRM. D:


----------



## Nimander (Sep 4, 2009)

Erikson has said for the longest that DoD will end on a cliffhanger.  It's easier to consider it the first part of one massive concluding novel.  It's a nice way to build up anticipation for _The Crippled God_.


----------



## Mori` (Sep 4, 2009)

^ that's it pretty much. The book does actually have a pretty solid climax to it, it doesn't feel like you've read half a book. But it also has some pretty big cliffhangers lying there too xD


----------



## Rhaella (Sep 4, 2009)

...and the next book will be out before... oh, never?


----------



## KidTony (Sep 5, 2009)

After I'm done with WOT, I'll tackle AsoIF, then this series will be my project. I prefer audio books to readying tho, and i can't seem to find any for this series. Are they hard to find, or do they just not exist?


----------



## Segan (Sep 12, 2009)

Oh Beak. I felt somewhat sad for him. But I can understand why it had to be like that. It seemed he had the potential to be the Deus Ex Machina.


----------



## Nimander (Sep 12, 2009)

Yeah, Beak was definitely one of the better parts of "Reaper's Gale".  And for all you know, with what he did to the 14th army, he might've ended up being the Deus Ex Machina anyway.  As of now we still don't know the effect the transformation has had on the 14th, and what role that transformation will play in the final war.


----------



## Segan (Sep 13, 2009)

Look at where Tehol ended up. If that's not hilarious...
*Spoiler*: __ 



He actually intended to make Ublala Pung a Finadd.


----------



## Yulwei (Sep 17, 2009)

15 pages is a lot to read through and I can't find any good fansites or wiki's for this series so I'd like to ask something. 

Do Tool and Kilava make an appearance after MOI?
Did Kilava release Raest or the Matron?

If you can post a link to an informative website that'd be even better 

This is the first series I've read where I need to read the book twice back to back to understand some of the things going on in it


----------



## Mori` (Sep 17, 2009)

> Do Tool and Kilava make an appearance after MOI?



yes



> Did Kilava release Raest or the Matron?



not unless i'm very much mistaken, I'd assume you mean the matron in MoI and it's been an age since I read it.


----------



## Yulwei (Sep 17, 2009)

She released something when she put the Jaghut kids into the damaged warren and it's implied that it is the Jaghut tyrant who appeared in GotM who I'm pretty sure is called Raest. At the same time the Matron's people whose name eludes me at the moment where allegedly the ones who built the ruins around the warren


----------



## The Imp (Sep 17, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> She released something when she put the Jaghut kids into the damaged warren and it's implied that it is the Jaghut tyrant who appeared in GotM who I'm pretty sure is called Raest. At the same time the Matron's people whose name eludes me at the moment where allegedly the ones who built the ruins around the warren




Kilava put the 2 Jaghut kids in the damaged warren and it was implied that the Matron came out not Raest.


----------



## Yulwei (Sep 17, 2009)

Thanks for clearing that up. I'd ask which book Tool reappears in but I reckon I'd only confuse myself if I read the books out of order


----------



## masamune1 (Sep 17, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> She released something when she put the Jaghut kids into the damaged warren and it's implied that it is the Jaghut tyrant who appeared in GotM who I'm pretty sure is called Raest. At the same time the Matron's people whose name eludes me at the moment where allegedly the ones who built the ruins around the warren



The Jaghut Tyrant from _Gardens of the Moon_ was called Raest, but it was the Matron who came out- her species is the K'Chain Che'Malle. One of the Jaghut kids became the leader of the Pannion Domin but he was not Raest. Raest was much older (I think) and he was imprisoned as a grown man by his own people. 

The Jaghut leader of the Pannion Domin also was'nt a Tyrant so much as he was deranged. A Tyrant is a Jaghut compelled to conquer other races pretty much from birth, but this one just went crazy from it's crap life.


----------



## Mori` (Sep 17, 2009)

kurono76767 said:


> Kilava put the 2 Jaghut kids in the damaged warren and it was implied that the Matron came out not Raest.



Yup sorry, had to go dig up my copy since it was bugging me heh. The matrons soul is freed when Kilava sends the kids through, Pannion (the jaghut son) eventually enslaves her.


----------



## The Imp (Sep 17, 2009)

masamune1 said:


> The Jaghut Tyrant from _Gardens of the Moon_ was called Raest, but it was the Matron who came out- her species is the K'Chain Che'Malle. One of the Jaghut kids became the leader of the Pannion Domin but he was not Raest. Raest was much older (I think) and he was imprisoned as a grown man by his own people.
> 
> The Jaghut leader of the Pannion Domin also was'nt a Tyrant so much as he was deranged. A Tyrant is a Jaghut compelled to conquer other races pretty much from birth, but this one just went crazy from it's crap life.



I think it was stated in the prologue to MoI that Raest was imprisoned a bit (I'm guessing a couple of months) before Kilava mistakenly trapped Pannion and his sister in the warren.


----------



## Yulwei (Sep 21, 2009)

Well I've got the next book HoC [with more on the way] but I've also got the Return of the Black Company so I'm trying to decide which to read first. My problem with Erikson's books is that by my standards they tend to be slow starters and whilst I can and have read books simultaneously I haven't done so with his.


----------



## Nimander (Sep 21, 2009)

This book needs to come to the US!


----------



## The Imp (Sep 28, 2009)

Just started Midnight Tides and i already love Tehol. Get rich quick schemes are always interesting.


----------



## Nimander (Oct 1, 2009)

Tehol is one of the best characters in the entire series IMO, along with Kruppe.  For some reason, I'm a sucker for the "Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass" characters in literature, and both of these definitely qualify.


----------



## Segan (Oct 1, 2009)

By the way, what do you think of the Tiste Edur? I found them pretty dull - their attitudes and society. The Tiste Andii weren't portrayed as detailed as the Edur, but they don't seem much better (except for Anomander Rake).


----------



## Nimander (Oct 1, 2009)

Tiste Edur were an example of a society that stagnated due to its traditions and beliefs.  They hung on to the glory of their past and the one who led them there, Scabandari Bloodeye, and never tried to truly adapt themselves to the world around them and improve themselves that way.  This is shown by the desire of the people, in Midnight Tides and later books, to reclaim the Throne of Shadow, along with their eternal longing for full access to Kurald Emurlahn.

Other races/species advanced from the elder warrens to newer ones, and their sorcery and power improved because of it.  The Edur on the other hand, because they refused to let go of the past, doomed themselves in the end.  It was partially their desire to reclaim their ancient glory that led them to Lether, and, well


*Spoiler*: __ 



 we all know how that turns out.




The Tiste Andii on the other hand is an example of a society that, instead of hanging on to their past or to an ideal like the Edur did, hang on to nothing at all.  In a way they were worse than the Edur because they had nothing to live for besides their leader, Rake.  I believe this can represent a society where the leader accomplishes everything by himself, without truly leaving a legacy for others to follow.  The best leaders aren't those who rise to the top themselves, but rather those who can also pull others to the top along with them (Kamina is a prime example of this for any TTGL fans out there, which is why he was such a successful leader).

Though this wasn't necessarily Rake's fault.  He knew the ancient hurt of the past had taken the heart out of his people, so he made himself into that almost godlike figure that his people could look up to, could live for, and could follow.  He gave them a purpose in their otherwise purposeless lives, and that way he kept his people alive much longer than they would've lived otherwise.  The Andii were shown to have a fairly, *ahem* morbid outlook on life from what I can remember from Toll the Hounds.  In this way, Rake was an exemplary leader, and it is also what made him one of my favorite characters in the series as well.  That and this line:

Kilmandaros: " Wanna go kill some gods, ascendants and dragons?"

Rake: "Why not?  I have nothing better to do with my day."

Bad.  Ass


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 2, 2009)

Just finished House of Chains and started Midnight Tides [damned Amazon is delivering the books out of order]. Anyway I have to say I'm not liking MT so far but I'm only a tenth of my way through so it might get more engaging.

That being said I have some questions about HoC:
1) Did Onrack's portrait of Kilava render her immortal [and insane]?
2) Is Shaik's belief that humanity is composed of Kilava's children correct or is that her madness talking and humanity is actually descended from all the Imass who didn't become T'lan Imass? 

I don't know why I like the T'lan Imass so much but outside of the Malazans and the Teblor [Toblokai] they're my favourite race


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 2, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> 2) Is Shaik's belief that humanity is composed of Kilava's children correct or is that her madness talking and humanity is actually descended from all the Imass who didn't become T'lan Imass?



The latter I'd say

I'm sure its stated in one of the books at one point

I think the Barghast are also descended from the Imass, not sure though, I'd have to check


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 2, 2009)

I saw what you stated on Wikipedia but I've yet to see it in the books unless I missed it or it's in one of the ones I'm yet to read


----------



## Segan (Oct 3, 2009)

Barghast descended from Thelomen Toblakai...as did Tartheno and Trell. Can't be bothered to find the source in the first eight books, though.


----------



## The Imp (Oct 3, 2009)

Segan said:


> Barghast descended from Thelomen Toblakai...as did Tartheno and Trell. Can't be bothered to find the source in the first eight books, though.



I'm pretty sure it was stated that the Barghast and Trell were descendants of the Imass that didn't make it in time for the ritual in MoI. Not so sure about the Toblakai and I have no idea who the Tartheno are?


----------



## Segan (Oct 4, 2009)

kurono76767 said:


> I'm pretty sure it was stated that the Barghast and Trell were descendants of the Imass that didn't make it in time for the ritual in MoI. Not so sure about the Toblakai and I have no idea who the Tartheno are?


Must've been breeding with Toblakai.

Tartheno are another offspring of Toblakai.


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 4, 2009)

I have a question. In Bonehunters, the Destriant of Togg and Fanderay claims that his group has been waiting for the Fourteenth army to show up for two years...but didn't Togg and Fanderay only got reunited at the end of Memories of Ice? That can't be two years, can it? I might be just confused on this...


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 4, 2009)

So am I right about Kilava being rendered immortal and/or insane by Onrack's painting


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 4, 2009)

Why would Onrack's painting make her insane?


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 4, 2009)

Killing your entire clan isn't a sane thing to do and from what Onrack says I gather that prior to that act there was nothing untoward about her. So what happened then? The painting seemed to change her so why shouldn't it explain her sudden murderous intent. If she really disagreed with the ritual she could have just skipped town without telling anyone but she decided to kill her clan.


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 4, 2009)

Or it can easily just be a coincidence. 

I thought the point of her killing off clan members was to not be apart of the ritual.

Even without that, she's not the only T'lan Imass to suddenly decide to do things that are practically insane. Didn't Onrack's wife decide to become the Shaik spirit nutto? Not to mention the Unbound. The painting thing just sounded like primitive T'lan Imass thinking to me. All the more so when it's not like Onrack did the cave painting out of intentional malice to drive her nuts.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 4, 2009)

Personally I'm of the impression that Onrack in his passion may have done more than simply paint a picture. He is/was a bonecaster so I don't think it's inconceivable the painting is more than a painting. By the unbound I assume you're referring to those who pretended to be the Teblor's gods. I'd say they behaved quite sensibly. They weren't content with their lot so they changed it sure a few people got trod all over but indifference isn't the same as insanity. Shaik was obviously quite mad but you know what they say about women scorned


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 4, 2009)

Keep in mind that I'm only nearly up to the end of the Bonehunters. If anything comes up in Reaper's Gale and beyond about this stuff, I'll just drop it.


> "'My brother will be pleased.'
> 
> 'Who is your brother?'
> 
> ...



...It sounds like a reason to me rather than madness.
Also:


> Onrack was wedded to the woman who would eventually become the Whirlwind Goddess. While adultery was fairly common amongst the tribes of the Imass, Onrack eventually fell in love with Kilava Onas. Shortly before the Ritual of Tellann, he painted an image of her on a cave wall, which captured a part of her soul and made her timeless, able to defy the Ritual. Onrack's wife lead the tribe into denouncing Onrack and Kilava. Onrack accepted the accusations but Kilava murdered her entire clan, except for Onos T'oolan. Onrack would have been exiled on the eve of the Ritual, but an alliance of four Jaghut Tyrants arose in the area and the ritual exile never occured. Onrack joined the Ritual of Tellann along with the rest of the Imass and became a T'lan Imass of the Logros.
> Link removed




So his painting caught a part of her soul and thus allow her to defy the Ritual? A direct effect upon her but it doesn't sound like it made her automatically insane.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 4, 2009)

I believe the painting by Onrack already weakened or broke her link with other Imass and this may have made it easier for her to kill her own kin than would have been the case.


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 4, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> All this is stuff I'm extrapolating from vague statements made in HoC I could be way off the mark. Basically I believed Kilava didn't want to be part of the ritual and was so adamant that she killed her clan. Now considering some Imass didn't partake in the ritual simply because they weren't there it seems far more logical to me for Kilava to simply run away rather than killing her clan.


But what if her clan was gung-ho for the ritual and wouldn't allow her to disobey the decision made by the clan then? There's a difference between not being around at the time, as in being on another continent, and being smack dab surrounded by the clan she supposedly was at the time.


> After reading HoC it occurs to me that by painting her Onrack made her somehow separate from the Imass and this separateness may have made it easier for her to kill her own kin. Furthermore because the picture is eternal so to is Kilava hence her retaining her looks and not ageing despite having lived so long.


In terms of the soul stuff, pretty much.


> It's open to interpretation so if you don't like my theory ignore it since there's nothing explicitly stating it as fact.


It's not that I dislike it. I'm just trying to see where the insanity comes from. Did you mean insanity as in Jaghut Tyrants acting different from the usual Jaghut insanity or something else entirely? It's all really relative to me overall.

EDIT: This officially the longest discussion I had for this thread at all. Thank you.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 4, 2009)

Well it's not that she's insane it's more like after the painting she became more independent than any Imass had ever been and defended said independence rather more fiercely than anyone would call reasonable. She defies her people at every turn because she has a greater sense of herself as an individual than they do. This stems IMO from being the only Imass to have their likeness captured in a permanent form. It could be she simply became very arrogant or it could be the picture itself had some unwilling effect on her mind.


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 4, 2009)

I can live with that interpretation.


----------



## Segan (Oct 5, 2009)

Kilava didn't seem insane to me. Not any more than any other immortal, anyway.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 5, 2009)

Other immortals don't seem particularly maladjusted to me but now that I think about it the Imass as a whole were pretty crazy though I suppose a better word would be fanatic. I assume after Itkovian did his Shield Anvil thing that they're no longer as bad as they once were.


----------



## Nimander (Oct 5, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> Well it's not that she's insane it's more like after the painting she became more independent than any Imass had ever been and defended said independence rather more fiercely than anyone would call reasonable. She defies her people at every turn because she has a greater sense of herself as an individual than they do. This stems IMO from being the only Imass to have their likeness captured in a permanent form. It could be she simply became very arrogant or it could be the picture itself had some unwilling effect on her mind.



This.  Repworthy interpretation.  I approve


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 8, 2009)

Finished MT and am awaiting Bonehunters. I have to say that after Rhulad got the sword it started to pick up but before that it was competing with GotM for worst MbotF I've yet read


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 8, 2009)

When you say worst, I'm hoping you really mean least favorite. Gardens of the Moon wasn't a bad book in case that's what you're suggesting.

Bonehunters was okay. It of course didn't really pick up until the last couple of chapters.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 8, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> When you say worst, I'm hoping you really mean least favorite. Gardens of the Moon wasn't a bad book in case that's what you're suggesting.
> 
> Bonehunters was okay. It of course didn't really pick up until the last couple of chapters.



GotM was okay bar the fact that on reading it the first time it was incomprehensible but having read later books I began to understand what was going on in it. Basically it sucks as an introduction to MbotF. It certainly wasn't the worst thing I've ever read because I tend not to finish such books and I certainly finished this one otherwise I'd never have gotten the sequals.

My primary problem with MT is that we had to be introduced to damn near everything since it was so different from the locales of his previous books. Once I knew what everything was it picked up. Bonehunters doesn't suffer this problem since he doesn't have to explain anything as he's done so in the previous books obviousley excluding any new concepts he brings in.


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 8, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> GotM was okay bar the fact that on reading it the first time it was incomprehensible but having read later books I began to understand what was going on in it. Basically it sucks as an introduction to MbotF. It certainly wasn't the worst thing I've ever read because I tend not to finish such books and I certainly finished this one otherwise I'd never have gotten the sequals.


I somewhat agree. Still, as an intro, it could of been worse.


> My primary problem with MT is that we had to be introduced to damn near everything since it was so different from the locales of his previous books. Once I knew what everything was it picked up.


Everyone seems to have that issue.


> Bonehunters doesn't suffer this problem since he doesn't have to explain anything as he's done so in the previous books obviousley excluding any new concepts he brings in.


Nah, it doesn't suffer from that problem at all. Just that the story kind of drags a little on certain parts I could do without seeing so much.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 8, 2009)

No new character can possibly be as bad as the Mhybe. If I survived her I can survive anything to tell the truth I skipped most of her parts in the book


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 8, 2009)

Out of all the Malazan books I've read, I'd say Bonehunters has the weakest start but the climaxes it has are very good when you get close to the end


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah, what Crimson Dragoon said. Especially a certain couple of scenes for Kalam and Quick Ben.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 8, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> No new character can possibly be as bad as the Mhybe. If I survived her I can survive anything to tell the truth I skipped most of her parts in the book



She was a MAJOR part of why I quit the MoI.


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 8, 2009)

Screw Mhybe. Finish Memories of Ice. It's worth it.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 8, 2009)

For completism, I'll get to it eventually but it's not high on my list.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 9, 2009)

So far as I can see only the last Mhybe portion of the book is actually relevant so you can skip all those prior to that one without losing anything


----------



## Nimander (Oct 10, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> Screw Mhybe. Finish Memories of Ice. It's worth it.



Yesssss.  MoI still ranks among one of my favorites in the entire series.  The rise of Gruntle is still one of my favorite subplots in the series, I have no idea why.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 16, 2009)

Right, I'm currently nearing the end of Bonehunters and have received Night of Knives and the Crimson Guard. My question is as follows should I move straight on to Reapers Gale or should I read the new arrivals first


----------



## Rhaella (Oct 16, 2009)

I'd plow right through with Reaper's Gale. I haven't read the other stuff just yet, but I doubt you could go wrong by sticking with one author's run before switching to the other's.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 16, 2009)

I was told that chronologically Return of the Crimson Guard is before Reapers Gale I just want to know if reading them out of order will spoil one or the other


----------



## Segan (Oct 17, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> I was told that chronologically Return of the Crimson Guard is before Reapers Gale I just want to know if reading them out of order will spoil one or the other


I doubt that it matters. It's not like the Crimson Guard is tied to the first eight volumes anyway as I've read them all. They first appeared in Midnight Tides where they somehow had ended up in Letheras and tried to leave it as soon as possible to reach Genabackis (which they did, finally). Then they were out of the picture for good.

They most likely won't have any direct role to play in Erikson's plot, so you might as well either read the Return before or after Reapers Gale.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 17, 2009)

Alrighty then.


----------



## Nimander (Oct 22, 2009)

Just finished reading Toll the Hounds for the third time.  F***, I cannot wait for Dust of Dreams to come out in the US!


----------



## Taleran (Oct 22, 2009)

Crazy people and your parts of book skipping ways


----------



## Nimander (Oct 23, 2009)

I know, right?  I couldn't really imagine skipping books in a series I love.  I've been reading this particular one for about seven years now, and skipping a book would be like blasphemy to me.


----------



## jkingler (Oct 23, 2009)

I'm going to wait a while longer to pick these books up. Not running into the books I need in MMPB IRL, though, so I may cave and go the online route soon.


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## Rhaella (Oct 23, 2009)

I'm getting more than a bit curious about Dust of Dreams, but I half remember Tom mentioning it was light on the characters I most care about, so... I suppose I can wait.


----------



## Yulwei (Oct 23, 2009)

Taleran said:


> Crazy people and your parts of book skipping ways



If the part you missed turns out to be important you can always go back and read it so there's no real dilemma. The Mhybe just happened to be one of the few characters who had parts focused on her that could be excised from the book and make no differance  



1TrueSensei said:


> I know, right?  I couldn't really imagine skipping books in a series I love.  I've been reading this particular one for about seven years now, and skipping a book would be like blasphemy to me.



Well we were talking about parts rather than books. The books in this series are too interconnected for one to skip any of the books.


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## Nimander (Oct 23, 2009)

Ah, I see.  Yet the way Erikson writes, even minor characters can drop facts that are very relevant to the story and series overall, so skipping them could be just as bad as skipping a book in the end as far as comprehension goes.


----------



## Nimander (Nov 4, 2009)

*premiering epic set in epic thread*


----------



## Segan (Nov 4, 2009)

I felt sad after reading about Anomander Rake in Toll The Hounds.


----------



## Nimander (Dec 3, 2009)

Question to the forums: in the series, there are a few characters that just seem...unbelievably intelligent, almost to the point of omniscience at times.  So I ask this question: who do you think is the smartest character in the series?  The choices are between Quick Ben, Tehol Beddict, and of course, Kruppe, though if you can think of someone else feel free to venture your opinion.


----------



## Yulwei (Dec 4, 2009)

Kruppe was declared the smartest in Memories of Ice and WhiskeyJack believes Quick is a close second. After that there's nothing official but I'd say Tehol is 3rd.


----------



## Segan (Dec 4, 2009)

Yeah, I would definitely pick Kruppe. It's like he's orchestrating and predicting every single scenario by making a nudge then and there to see things taking effects as a direct consequence to his nudgings.

Ben Adaephon Delat and Tehol Beddict are my secondary picks.

I would pick Anomander Rake, too, but because of his powers and his own motives, he didn't really use his intelligence in the games between mortals. The single goal he has been working on has been reached in Toll The Hounds, and that's all we're going to see from him in the main storyline.


----------



## neodragzero (Dec 4, 2009)

Nimander said:


> *premiering epic set in epic thread*



Sweet set. What's the source?

I find Reaper's Gale to be great so far (at page 550). Redmask and Ruin are pretty cool while more Tehol Beddict is never a bad thing. I can't help but not care about the Shale characters though.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 4, 2009)

Is there any news yet about the prequel novels about Kharkanas and the Tiste Andii?


----------



## Yulwei (Dec 5, 2009)

Nothing like a release date. Regarding what it's about I'm informed it takes place before the Tiste came to burn and probably before they split with Mother Dark.

Now with regards who's smartest I'm wondering where Kellenvahd ranks. He's the only one of those mentioned in the thread who's had plans fail. First with the whole Sorry debacle and then getting ahold of Dragnipur. It wouldn't surprise me if there was more stuff I'd forgotten.


----------



## Rhaella (Jan 8, 2010)

Nimander said:


> Question to the forums: in the series, there are a few characters that just seem...unbelievably intelligent, almost to the point of omniscience at times.  So I ask this question: who do you think is the smartest character in the series?  The choices are between Quick Ben, Tehol Beddict, and of course, Kruppe, though if you can think of someone else feel free to venture your opinion.



I'd second Yulwei's Kellanved and add Cotillion to the list as well. Ammanas seems to have some sort of grand philosophical genius going on (I'm remembering something Cotillion mentioned somewhere, though I'd have to go check what exactly), and Cotillion's subtlety seems unparalleled. Different sort of intelligence there, but definitely noteworthy. Schemes within schemes, those two are juggling so much.

Anyone here read Glen Cook's Black Company yet? Malazan is compared to it, so I finally grabbed it from the library the other day.


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## Yulwei (Jan 8, 2010)

Well I suppose the Black Company is like the Malazan books or vice versa if the Malazan books focused only on the soldiers and by that I mean the ignorant grunts rather than the all knowing commanders


----------



## Mori` (Jan 8, 2010)

Yulwei said:


> Now with regards who's smartest I'm wondering where Kellenvahd ranks. He's the only one of those mentioned in the thread who's had plans fail. First with the whole Sorry debacle and then getting ahold of Dragnipur. It wouldn't surprise me if there was more stuff I'd forgotten.



Nothing has failed; everything is going according to the grand plan of misdirection, misdirection, direction, a little re-arranging, some side manipulation, a bit more misdirection, and a baffling absence in book 9. Trust me, come the final book, it'll all be _"just as planned"_ for Ammatillion


----------



## Nimander (Jan 8, 2010)

Segan said:


> Yeah, I would definitely pick Kruppe. It's like he's orchestrating and predicting every single scenario by making a nudge then and there to see things taking effects as a direct consequence to his nudgings.
> 
> Ben Adaephon Delat and Tehol Beddict are my secondary picks.
> 
> I would pick Anomander Rake, too, but because of his powers and his own motives, he didn't really use his intelligence in the games between mortals. The single goal he has been working on has been reached in Toll The Hounds, and that's all we're going to see from him in the main storyline.



Rake.  But I agree.  From the hints we got in Endest's flashbacks in Toll The Hounds, he'd been working on his one goal for the better part of 25,000 years, probably longer since I'm not exactly sure of the time frame.  That's some scary prescience, along with a lot of it dependent on luck and circumstance.  



Rhaella said:


> I'd second Yulwei's Kellanved and add Cotillion to the list as well. Ammanas seems to have some sort of grand philosophical genius going on (I'm remembering something Cotillion mentioned somewhere, though I'd have to go check what exactly), and Cotillion's subtlety seems unparalleled. Different sort of intelligence there, but definitely noteworthy. Schemes within schemes, those two are juggling so much.
> 
> Anyone here read Glen Cook's Black Company yet? Malazan is compared to it, so I finally grabbed it from the library the other day.



That's true.  It's like they literally have a toe in every single pond in the story.  From the Bridgeburners, to the Tiste Edur, to the events in Lether.  It seems like out of all the gods in the story, those two are the only ones truly close to omniscience.  



Moridin said:


> Nothing has failed; everything is going according to the grand plan of misdirection, misdirection, direction, a little re-arranging, some side manipulation, a bit more misdirection, and a baffling absence in book 9. Trust me, come the final book, it'll all be _"just as planned"_ for Ammatillion



Like I said, omniscience.  And yeah, the duo is gonna succeed.  Shadowthrone is the very definition of "crazy like a fox".  The plans of insane people often succeed because where normal people attempt to "think outside the box" in order to be unpredictable, for insane people there's no box to begin with.

I'm just curious what it is he's trying to achieve in the end.  I doubt it's something as trite as complete and total domination, yet it honestly wouldn't surprise me if that does indeed turn out to be his end goal.


----------



## Rhaella (Jan 8, 2010)

Nimander said:


> That's true.  It's like they literally have a toe in every single pond in the story.  From the Bridgeburners, to the Tiste Edur, to the events in Lether.  It seems like out of all the gods in the story, those two are the only ones truly close to omniscience.



I think it's partly because they're so new to godhood that they have to work doubly hard simply to catch up. Combine that with being young enough to still care in a real way and deal with things in a more creative fashion. Also ambitious like whoa.



Nimander said:


> Like I said, omniscience.  And yeah, the duo is gonna succeed.  Shadowthrone is the very definition of "crazy like a fox".  The plans of insane people often succeed because where normal people attempt to "think outside the box" in order to be unpredictable, for insane people there's no box to begin with.



I think their big advantage is that Ammanas has the whole "destroy the box entirely" thing going on, and Cotillion meanwhile is still grounded enough to make sure nothing goes too horribly wrong. True partnership indeed.


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## Nimander (Jan 9, 2010)

Sοulcatcher said:


> I think it's partly because they're so new to godhood that they have to work doubly hard simply to catch up. Combine that with being young enough to still care in a real way and deal with things in a more creative fashion. Also ambitious like whoa.


 
That is true.  It's kinda falls to the background that they've only been gods for like, thirty years with how active they are in everything.  And ambitious doesn't begin to even describe them.  I'm still waiting for whatever Xanatos Gambit (most likely Xanatos Pileup with these two) they've planned to finally reveal itself so I can sit back in awe.



> I think their big advantage is that Ammanas has the whole "destroy the box entirely" thing going on, and Cotillion meanwhile is still grounded enough to make sure nothing goes too horribly wrong. True partnership indeed.



It is funny how balanced their personalities are.  You catch pieces here and there about how they were when they were still mortals, and it's easy to see how Kellanved ascended to power (in the normal sense of the word) so quickly.  

Though I do sense the faint, _faint_ possibility of Cotillion having a "difference of opinion" with Shadowthrone in the near future.  Despite them being partners, Cotillion has been shown learning things on his own apart from Shadowthrone, and we've peeked inside his own thoughts far more than we have his partner's.  If Shadowthrone's ultimate goal is something as far-reaching as I'm thinking it is (like I said, ambitious doesn't even begin to describe these two), Cotillion just may end up standing in Shadowthrone's way before the end, if for no other reason than to save his friend from himself.

'Twould be a nice development for the two, and could serve to connect Shadowthrone a little bit more to the humanity he's seemed to have left behind.  Assuming both of them survive of course.


----------



## Mori` (Jan 9, 2010)

Short excerpt from TCG...so, err, spoilers and all that

Also, it'll make soulcatcher happy <3


*Spoiler*: __ 



_Cotillion drew two daggers. His gaze fell to the blades. The blackened iron surfaces seemed to swirl, two pewter rivers oozing across pits and gouges, the edges ragged where armour and bone had slowed their thrusts. He studied the sickly sky’s lurid reflections for a moment longer, and then said, “I have no intention of explaining a damned thing.” He looked up, eyes locking. “Do you understand me?”
The figure facing him was incapable of expression. The tatters of rotted sinew and strips of skin were motionless upon the bones of temple, cheek and jaw. The eyes held nothing, nothing at all.
Better, Cotillion decided, than jaded skepticism. Oh how he was sick of that. “Tell me,” he resumed, “what do you think you’re seeing here? Desperation? Panic? A failing of will, some inevitable decline crumbling to incompetence? Do you believe in failure, Edgewalker?”
Edgewalker remained silent for a time, and then the apparition spoke in a broken, rasping voice. “You cannot be so … audacious.”
“I asked if you believed in failure. Because I don’t.”
“Even should you succeed, Cotillion. Beyond all expectation, beyond, even, all desire. They will still speak of your failure.”
He sheathed his daggers. “And you know what they can do to themselves.”
The head cocked, strands of hair dangling and drifting. “Arrogance?”
“Competence,” Cotllion snapped in reply. “Doubt me at your peril.”
“They will not believe you.”
“I do not care, Edgewalker. This is what it is.”
When he set out, he was not surprised that the deathless guardian followed. We have done this before. Dust and ashes puffed with each step. The wind moaned as if trapped in a crypt. “Almost time, Edgewalker.”
“I know. You cannot win.”
Cotillion paused, half-turned. He smiled a ravaged smile. “That doesn’t mean I have to lose, does it?” _




I shall hold my comments on it for now


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 9, 2010)

Sοulcatcher said:


> Anyone here read Glen Cook's Black Company yet? Malazan is compared to it, so I finally grabbed it from the library the other day.



I've read it and they're good books

Definitely worth your time



Nimander said:


> I'm just curious what it is he's trying to achieve in the end.  I doubt it's something as trite as complete and total domination, yet it honestly wouldn't surprise me if that does indeed turn out to be his end goal.



That's likely not it since it's been mentioned that the various Gods and Ascendants would smack him down for it and Kellanved knows it.  Maybe it does have something to do with gaining more influence among the pantheon, but that's probably just another means to some other end.


----------



## Nimander (Jan 9, 2010)

Moridin said:


> Short excerpt from TCG...so, err, spoilers and all that
> 
> Also, it'll make soulcatcher happy <3
> 
> ...



There are spoilers for TCG out and I haven't even laid eyes on DoD yet.

That book needs to come out in the US, dammit!


----------



## Rhaella (Jan 9, 2010)

Nimander said:


> Though I do sense the faint, _faint_ possibility of Cotillion having a "difference of opinion" with Shadowthrone in the near future.  Despite them being partners, Cotillion has been shown learning things on his own apart from Shadowthrone, and we've peeked inside his own thoughts far more than we have his partner's.  If Shadowthrone's ultimate goal is something as far-reaching as I'm thinking it is (like I said, ambitious doesn't even begin to describe these two), Cotillion just may end up standing in Shadowthrone's way before the end, if for no other reason than to save his friend from himself.



By and large, I see Cotillion using what he learns independently to apply to whatever endgame he and Shadowthrone are playing towards. He has had moments where he's more than a bit frustrated by Ammanas'... manner, so I suppose if Ammanas really were to take a dive off the deep end, Cotillion would probably do damage control rather than joining in, but. So far I tend to think he's cautiously backing whatever Ammanas is up to.

We'll see. Eventually. If they ever get published here.



Moridin said:


> Short excerpt from TCG...so, err, spoilers and all that
> 
> Also, it'll make soulcatcher happy <3
> 
> ...



It makes me feel so _behind_. Damn American publishing.

But, oh yes. Very happy. And very much an Emperor+Dancer sentiment there, isn't it. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



We can't lose. No really, we _can't_.


----------



## Nimander (Jan 20, 2010)

Just found a ebook download of Dust of Dreams.:WOW

Illegal downloading has never tasted so sweet.pek

Expect me back when my post DoD high commences.


----------



## Nimander (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm reading DoD right now, and damn if I've never looked forward to seeing Onos in action like I do at the end of Ch. 15.  This book is turning out to be everything I expected and more.


----------



## The Imp (Apr 11, 2010)

Just recently finished Midnight Tides. It took me like 7 months to finish.

Tehol and Bugg are the best.


----------



## KidTony (Apr 13, 2010)

Finished A song of Ice and Fire so this is my next project. Started Gardens of the Moon last night.


----------



## Fang (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm still stuck in the early chapters of Midnight Tides because god damn it doesn't build up like House of Chains or Deadhouse Gates fast enough on the story.


----------



## The Imp (Apr 22, 2010)

TWF said:


> I'm still stuck in the early chapters of Midnight Tides because god damn it doesn't build up like House of Chains or Deadhouse Gates fast enough on the story.



The first third of the book was pretty boring for the most part and it does take a while to build up but you just have to push yourself through it. The story quickly gets intense after that and you get really engrossed in the novel. It took me just over a week to finish it once I got to that point.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 22, 2010)

Midnight Tides is actually one of my favorites, but yeah it takes some getting used to


----------



## KidTony (Apr 23, 2010)

Still on Gardens, part four 'Assasins'. I'm a slow reader, and this book was very hard to get into, but loving it now. You can really tell the huge scope and vision of this series. Really intrigued by what's to come.


----------



## Lucero del Alba (Apr 23, 2010)

> it doesn't build up like House of Chains


 
I laughed.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 23, 2010)

Do you have something against House of Chains


----------



## The Imp (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah the build up to the major events in Raraku took longer in House of Chains but reading about Karsa killing people with his buddies was a lot more entertaining than the early parts of Midnight Tides.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 23, 2010)

Lυ Bυ said:


> Yeah the build up to the major events in Raraku took longer in House of Chains but reading about Karsa killing people with his buddies was a lot more entertaining than the early parts of Midnight Tides.



Karsa's path of murder and mayhem was awesome as a opener for House of Chains...I like how his personality changed over the course of it.


----------



## KidTony (May 6, 2010)

Just finished Gardens of The Moon. I really, really enjoyed it. I heard that the first book was really hard to get into and finish, and a lot of people quit on the series because of it, but i really can't understand why. Granted, the first 100 or so pages were very confusing, but after the POVs shifted to Darujhistan it remained very good throughout. I give this book a solid 8.5/10, and can't wait to continue with the series. Starting Deadhouse gates today.

The only grip i have with the series is the lack of detail regarding character appearance. Even though i got used to Erickson's sparse descriptions, sometimes i found it very hard to imagine how a character looks. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone of us had a totally different view of each character. For example, i still have no idea how a Barghast is supposed to look. I know they aren't human, i just don't know how they look. This can be really annoying at times.


----------



## The Imp (May 24, 2010)

Just finished Reaper's Gale. One of my favourites in the series. Beak was my favourite new character. I loved his weird but innocent personality and his dialogue had me laughing a few times. His death was kinda sad though. For the most part I liked all of the POV's although I found the parts involving the Awl and the battles in the east a bit dull near the end. Karsa Orlong is the best though. I wish we got to see more of him. He's definitely deserving of his own spin-off.

Also I didn't understand what happened at the end with Icarium when he was trying to fix his machine (not really sure how to describe it) and released a ridiculous amount of magic. Could someone clarify for me?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 24, 2010)

Lυ Bυ said:


> Also I didn't understand what happened at the end with Icarium when he was trying to fix his machine (not really sure how to describe it) and released a ridiculous amount of magic. Could someone clarify for me?



That becomes a sort of a plot point in the next book, so what I say could be a spoiler


*Spoiler*: __ 



Basically Icarium uses his blood on the machine and winds up making a new set of Warrens, much like what K'rul did long ago



That's the impression I got from reading Reaper's Gale and Dust of Dreams


----------



## KidTony (May 25, 2010)

two chapters to go and I'm done with Deadhouse Gates. Its curious, because a friend who read the series say that this was the worst book in the series. I told him that if Deadhouse Gates was bad, i wonder what great was. I really, really enjoyed this book, specially Coltaine's march. Not much else to say, will be starting Memories of Ice soon.

P.S: my dust of dreams copy came in the mail today, i now have every single malazan book.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 25, 2010)

Deadhouse Gates being the worst in the series?  Now I've heard everything.

I rank DG as one of my favorites along with MoI


----------



## neodragzero (May 25, 2010)

Deadhouse Gates is the worse... Talk about some Bizarro world speak.


----------



## The Imp (May 25, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> That becomes a sort of a plot point in the next book, so what I say could be a spoiler
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



His blood creates new warrens but what exactly does the machine do because as far as I remember K'rul didn't use anything similar to it when he created the warrens.

As far as best books in the series I'd rank DG up there mostly because Coltaine and the Chain of Dogs. I didn't care much for the convergence at the Azath house and the Whirlwind which is why I'm not a big fan of HoC outside of Karsa's journey in the beginning of the book. Memories of Ice wasn't one of my favourites but it wasn't the worst either. The Mhybe(?) was terrible and some of the romance was just random but the battles more than made up for it. Also we got a lot more knowledge of the Malazan world which was cool.

BH was my least favourite because it just felt like a whole bunch of events were loosely put together and there was no build up for the events in Malaz city at the end. Also Tavore is a bore.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 25, 2010)

Lυ Bυ said:


> His blood creates new warrens but what exactly does the machine do because as far as I remember K'rul didn't use anything similar to it when he created the warrens.



Well, Icarium isn't like K'rul so the machine must have played some part in his purpose



> Icarium drew a step closer, drawing a dagger.
> 
> Thunder sounded beneath him, making the cobbles bounce in puffs of dust. Somewhere, in the city, structures began to break apart, as sections and components within them stirred into life, into inexorable motion. Seeking to return to a most ancient pattern.
> 
> ...


----------



## The Imp (May 25, 2010)

So do we actually get to see these new warrens in Dust of Dreams?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 25, 2010)

Lυ Bυ said:


> So do we actually get to see these new warrens in Dust of Dreams?



They're used during near the end of the novel


----------



## The Imp (May 25, 2010)

I heard Erikson is gonna be making a Toblakai trilogy and an Anomander Rake trilogy after he's done with the main series. That's gonna be cool.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 25, 2010)

I'll be looking forward to them as well, along with the Malazan Encyclopedia and The Crippled God


----------



## Shirō Kazami (May 25, 2010)

Lυ Bυ said:


> an Anomander Rake trilogy after he's done with the main series.



Damn right that's cool.


----------



## Mori` (May 26, 2010)

KidTony said:


> two chapters to go and I'm done with Deadhouse Gates. Its curious, because a friend who read the series say that this was the worst book in the series. I told him that if Deadhouse Gates was bad, i wonder what great was. I really, really enjoyed this book, specially Coltaine's march. Not much else to say, will be starting Memories of Ice soon.
> 
> P.S: my dust of dreams copy came in the mail today, i now have every single malazan book.



Glad you enjoyed DHG, MoI is still one of my favourite books in the series (bar 1 PoV) so I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on that too =)

Imo people get thrown off by DHG because of the fact it feels quite different to GotM, and in (what you eventually realise is) typical SE fashion it introduces a lot of new characters/storylines. 

I remember reading it for the first time and being slightly disappointed because lots of the characters I'd loved in the first book hadn't been given a starring role, then when I re-read it down the line it massively shot up in my estimation because I really enjoyed the stories he was telling, rather than pondering what the other characters were doing.

I believe one of the toughest things for new readers of the Malazan series is the way the whole world view doesn't really start coming together until after book 5/MT. 1 & 3 follow one set of events, 2 & 4 another, whilst 5 finally introduces the other major part of the world, and it's not really until there that all the different plotlines start to...converge =p


----------



## Rhaella (May 26, 2010)

Lυ Bυ said:


> I heard Erikson is gonna be making a Toblakai trilogy and an *Anomander Rake trilogy after he's done with the main series. That's gonna be cool.*



That? Is awesome.



Moridin said:


> I believe one of the toughest things for new readers of the Malazan series is the way the whole world view doesn't really start coming together until after book 5/MT. 1 & 3 follow one set of events, 2 & 4 another, whilst 5 finally introduces the other major part of the world, and it's not really until there that all the different plotlines start to...converge =p



And the toughest thing for old readers, I think, is that six books in, he's still adding new plots entirely.

Oooh! My library system finally has Dust of Dreams! Unfortunately, they're being inane and not allowing me to request it to be sent for pick up at my own library. Looks like a road trip is in order.


----------



## Fang (May 26, 2010)

Ughhhhhhhhhhhh Rake sama ughhhhhhhh


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 26, 2010)

Moridin said:


> I believe one of the toughest things for new readers of the Malazan series is the way the whole world view doesn't really start coming together until after book 5/MT. 1 & 3 follow one set of events, 2 & 4 another, whilst 5 finally introduces the other major part of the world, and it's not really until there that all the different plotlines start to...converge =p



Erikson is really fond of convergence 

It's pretty obvious by now


----------



## Crowe (May 29, 2010)

I bought Dust of Dreams in UK as soon as it was released but I just managed to stop procrastinating and started to read the series. It's good and I really like where it's going but I really wish Erikson stopped focusing on so many different POV.

One of the main reasons I read and love this series is because of the Mezla. Fiddler, Quick Ben, Hedge and even the new characters from Bonehunters, Smiles, Koryk, Tarr, Gessler, Stormy etc. They are what makes this series so good to me and it's really frustrating when there's chapter after chapter where we follow some skeleton, ghost or some silly character which I care little for. I have also noted a tendency that in each book, he'll have a new character/new pair that is apparently "really strong" but hiding in some squad or somewhere unexpected. You'd think that there has to be a limit to the "really strong guys" but Erikson keep bringing on more and more and it's losing its charm. I loved reading about Kalam/Dancer/Apsalar and how they were slaughtering everyone but now it seem like even normal squad members like Deathskull can do what they do, well not really but you get the point. I am 2/5th through the book so far and it's been so little about Quick Ben and the Bonehunters. I can't even connect with them in this book as it keep jumping to other characters, that I would do really well without.

I wouldn't mind if we got Anomander Rake or some big shots pov chapter but these chapters of random ghosts and minor characters are just boring. I find myself jumping over pages, so I have to force myself to go back and actually read them.

Don't get me wrong, Book of the fallen Mezla is my favorite series and have I re-read the first 4 books several times and loved them each time but with this book...please Erikson; focus on the squad. I know the story has become bigger than "just the mezla" but why such random characters like ghosts or small insects? Why not Anomander Rake, Shadowthrone, Dancer etc.


*p.s *you can continue posting in this thread and ignore my rant. I just had to get it out of my system ;]


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2010)

Wow Midnight Tides picked up steam quick once the Sengars got back from Jkeck land

lol Bugg reminds us once again why people should never ever fuck around with the comic relief characters in this series.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 16, 2010)

little more than halfway through Memories of Ice

i love it, the suttle connections from GotM and DHG, to just the amazing fights and characters and just


----------



## Nimander (Jun 16, 2010)

If there's one thing Erikson does that I've yet to see another author do, it's build those subtle connections between seemingly disparate things and characters and make them work.  This skill, more than anything else in his writing, is what makes his world-building so enjoyable to read and is really the backbone of his writing strengths.  

BTW, read DoD a month or two back.  The cliffhanger was pretty "meh", and the story course was kinda irksome to follow at times, but for the most part it was a hell of an enjoyable read.  Can't wait until The Crippled God, whenever they decide to drop it.

(still kinda pissed Erikson isn't wrapping up the series with TCG.  I wanna see what happened to Silverfox dammit!)


----------



## The Imp (Jun 16, 2010)

Nimander said:


> (still kinda pissed Erikson isn't wrapping up the series with TCG.  I wanna see what happened to Silverfox dammit!)



when did he say that?


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 16, 2010)

Yeah how erickson connetects all these distant characters that have nothig to do with eachother at first and make them all relevent is incredible

and yeah i thought he was ending after the crippled god?


----------



## KidTony (Jun 16, 2010)

^^^ Wait, The Crippled God isn't the last book?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 16, 2010)

KidTony said:


> ^^^ Wait, The Crippled God isn't the last book?



Every site i've been to says it is. so I don't know what he's referring to.

Makes me wonder how massive the book is going to be considering there are several characters whose tales aren't done yet either.


----------



## masamune1 (Jun 17, 2010)

I guess they are reffering to the books for Toblokai and Anomander Rake.


----------



## Mori` (Jun 17, 2010)

^ that

TCG = final book in Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series.

He's also signed to write two further trilogies within that world though, one following Karsa (and presumably what he was sent off to do at the end of TTH), and one detailing events in the past of the Tiste Andii


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 17, 2010)

So I finished memories of ice

my favorite easily so far, loved almost everthing about it 

Except Kallor he needs to die horrible and I hate him


----------



## neodragzero (Jun 17, 2010)

Lord Genome said:


> So I finished memories of ice
> 
> my favorite easily so far, loved almost everthing about it
> 
> Except Kallor he needs to die horrible and I hate him



It's not Kallor's fault he's simply that damn good at back stabbing. This man could fight a Tiste Andii Soletaken by himself if he needs to.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 17, 2010)

Oh no believe me I know he's good and I don't really hate him

but goddamn I was not a happy camper after that

also I've never felt the need to wiki malazan stuff so I can see what happened to certain characters(I'm not cause I like reading the books more but bleh)

I do have one question if anyone could elaborate on it I guess

*Spoiler*: __ 



did anyone find nightchills reveal as an elder goddess odd? The fact of how she died and etc. It just made her seem kinda weak originally getting taken out like that plus with the (as far as I noticed) lack of forshadowing




also kruppe is the most hilarious character I swear


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 17, 2010)

Lord Genome said:


> So I finished memories of ice
> 
> my favorite easily so far, loved almost everthing about it
> 
> Except Kallor he needs to die horrible and I hate him



Hated him as well, though he did have a point early on in the book about the Jaghut and T'Lan Imass.

Because once you start meeting Jaguts that aren't Raest or the Pannion Seer, the Imass come off as overreacting douchebags


----------



## The Imp (Jun 17, 2010)

Lord Genome said:


> also kruppe is the most hilarious character I swear



Just wait till you meet Tehol and Bugg in Midnight Tides.


----------



## Solar Bankai (Jun 18, 2010)

Erikson will only be wrapping things up for certain characters in TCG.  Ian C. Esslemont will be covering the rest across a few books, IIRC.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 18, 2010)

Lord Genome said:


> I do have one question if anyone could elaborate on it I guess
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



It was foreshadowed in the very beginning of MoI

Sister of Cold Nights, Nightchill.  See the relation?  Also, Kallor commented on the lack of creativity with her name.

Also, she was laying low, playing the mortal


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 19, 2010)

Well I mean it being forshadowed in a previous book, I understand that it was in MoI though 

I might just be used to how erickson does that so well but yeah


----------



## The Imp (Jun 21, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Toll the Hounds_ 



I'm reading Toll the Hounds and I'm at the part where the undead dragon is talking to Kallor about the Jaghut's greatest war. A Jaghut army numbering 100 million plus Eleint fighting against the dead sounds so awesome. The way Erikson wrote those few pages and Kallor's reaction afterwards was saddening.


----------



## KidTony (Jun 28, 2010)

Finally done with Memories of Ice. Really epic ending, on all counts.  I don't know whose's more badass, whiskeyjack, Gruntle, Tool, Mok, Brood, Paran, Quick Ben, Rake, or itkovian. Jesus so many badass characters. Sometimes i felt during the course of the book that too much was going on, that things were too muddle, but the ending really left me satisfied. Great book overall, i like Deadhouse gates better overall, but the the ending Memories of Ice was just amazing. 

On to to House of Chains.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 5, 2010)

Karsa Orlong pretty much steals the show in House of Chains


----------



## Rhaella (Jul 5, 2010)

Unless, like me, you really can't stand him at all.


----------



## Nimander (Jul 5, 2010)

You hate Karsa?

I can see how.  An Author Avatar if ever I saw one.  But, he does have his truly badass moments in the series, and plays an entirely too pivotal role in the series.

Personally, I much prefer Rake as a character.  The more subtle brand of badassery has always been my preference.


----------



## Rhaella (Jul 5, 2010)

Karsa... yeah. He really bothers me. I think there's a sort of primitive "me man; you woman" element to the character that turns me off completely. I'm not sure I'd call him misogynist per se, since he hates everyone of either gender, but his arrogance has a sexually aggressive edge to it, which really irritates me.

Rake, in contrast, I've always rather liked, despite (or because of) how "larger-than-life" he tends to be. Course, I'm still fully in the Ammanas & Cotillion camp. Particularly Cotillion appeals to me more than anyone else has.


----------



## Nimander (Jul 5, 2010)

Karsa proves himself to be insightful about a lot of things, which always comes as a shock to those that don't know him that well.  But, as you implied, he really doesn't seem to have that much knowledge about women and how they think.  Which is why I'm thinking that part of his downfall (cause SOMEONE out there isn't going to want him to succeed with his plan, and this recent "quest" to him from Cotillion and Ammanas is part of the plan to stop him) is going to be because of a woman.  

Call it a random theory, but I feel really strongly about it for some reason.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 5, 2010)

Rhaella said:


> Rake, in contrast, I've always rather liked, despite (or because of) how "larger-than-life" he tends to be. Course, I'm still fully in the Ammanas & Cotillion camp. Particularly Cotillion appeals to me more than anyone else has.



Rake's subtle, yet, at times, somewhat ominous presence, is something that Erikson handled pretty well in my opinion

anyway, I'm reading my way through RotCG right now and so far, it's significantly better than Night of Knives


----------



## Darth (Jul 6, 2010)

I just bought Gardens of the Moon.

Lets hope it was worth the 15 bucks.


----------



## Darth (Jul 20, 2010)

IT'S SOO CONFUSING!!!!

Arrgh. I've finished roughly two hundred pages in "Gardens of the Moon". So far, I feel like I've been thrown into a world with a confused history, things called warrens, ascendants, and a motley collection of mages, sorcerers, and species that I really know nothing about.

There's no backstory or explanations to any of the elements.

I'm loving the writing style, but I'm still largely confused with practically everything.

Some help would be nice.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 20, 2010)

Don't worry. The backstory will come. Though don't expect everything to be explained in that book.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 20, 2010)

The first book wasn't all that bad for me, though the Azath is a bit too much of a plot-device there for my tastes


----------



## Lord Genome (Jul 20, 2010)

Read the glosssary, it helps a whole lot

How erikson throws it out leaves it up to your imagination to how it looks like/interprated and will probbaly need another reread to fully understand the complexitys of it


----------



## Aruarian (Jul 20, 2010)

Darth said:


> IT'S SOO CONFUSING!!!!
> 
> Arrgh. I've finished roughly two hundred pages in "Gardens of the Moon". So far, I feel like I've been thrown into a world with a confused history, things called warrens, ascendants, and a motley collection of mages, sorcerers, and species that I really know nothing about.
> 
> ...


Consider GotM as a massive Prologue and you'll be fine, many things will get explained. GotM starts out slow, IMO, but half-way through it really picks up speed once you hit the city.

Also;

Warrens: Dimensions/realms/worlds where magic comes from. They each have specific characteristics, which allow for specific types of magic. Each person tends to have the potential of one Warren suiting them.

Ascendants are pretty obvious, really. They're beings that have gone beyond what normally would be expected of them. They're basically getting powered up, and ascend far enough you'll become something of a god.

But I'd suggest just keep on reading and don't spoiler yourself.


----------



## neodragzero (Jul 20, 2010)

Darth said:


> IT'S SOO CONFUSING!!!!
> 
> Arrgh. I've finished roughly two hundred pages in "Gardens of the Moon". So far, I feel like I've been thrown into a world with a confused history, things called warrens, ascendants, and a motley collection of mages, sorcerers, and species that I really know nothing about.
> 
> ...



Well, I didn't find the concept of warrens and ascendants to be hard to figure out.

Especially when you bother to look at the glossary from time to time.

It also helps when you get to Raest.

Things should be easier after you read Bonehunter and Memories of Ice. Things gets confusing again with Midnight Tides though.


----------



## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

Ahh.

I'm pretty much being impatient then. 

Righto. Thanks guys.


----------



## keiiya (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm about two-thirds of the way though Deathhoiuse Gates at the moment, and the only character that I can't stand at the moment is Felisin. I am hoping that changes.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 23, 2010)

keiiya said:


> I'm about two-thirds of the way though Deathhoiuse Gates at the moment, and the only character that I can't stand at the moment is Felisin. I am hoping that changes.



Nope Felisin is pretty much a spoiled asswipe throughout the book , before making a slight turnaround at the end.

On the otherhand the Chain of Dogs chapters made up for the awful Felisin chapters massivly in my opinion


----------



## neodragzero (Jul 23, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Nope Felisin is pretty much a spoiled asswipe throughout the book , before making a slight turnaround at the end.
> 
> On the otherhand the Chain of Dogs chapters made up for the awful Felisin chapters massivly in my opinion



Yeah, the only silver lining to Felisin, queen bitch that we all hate and damn to hell, is how she turns out in the end.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 23, 2010)

Coltaine for life


----------



## neodragzero (Jul 23, 2010)

Coltaine for life!

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Aruarian (Jul 23, 2010)

"Coltaine rattles slow
across the burning land.
The wind howls through the bones
of his hate-ridden command.
Coltaine leads a chain of dogs
ever snapping at his hand. 

Coltaine's fist bleeds the journey home
along rivers of red-soaked sand.
His train howls through his bones
in spiteful reprimand.
Coltaine leads a chain of dogs
ever snapping at his hand."


----------



## keiiya (Jul 23, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:
			
		

> Nope Felisin is pretty much a spoiled asswipe throughout the book , before making a slight turnaround at the end.


I think that bit of news will be enough to get me through the rest of the book. 



> On the otherhand the Chain of Dogs chapters made up for the awful Felisin chapters massivly in my opinion


I am really enjoying all the chapters involving Duiker and learning more about Coltaine. I want to read a lot more so that I can finally get to the books containing Rake. [<3]


----------



## Aruarian (Jul 24, 2010)

keiiya said:


> I think that bit of news will be enough to get me through the rest of the book.



Really? Not, ya know, the epic characters, battles, various storylines, etc?

I mean, if you're struggling with Deadhouse Gates, you might as well give up on the series.


----------



## Mori` (Jul 24, 2010)

I'd not question anyone who finds Felisin's chapters a pain to read =p

On an awesome note:

_"GASP! That would be me, coming up for air. How long was I down there? About twenty years, from conception to completion. The Malazan Book of the Fallen is done. Sure, editing and all that crap to follow. But ... done. I don't know who I am. Who am I again? What planet is this? Three months of butterflies ... maybe this double whiskey will fix that. Hmm. No. Delayed reaction going on here."

S. Erikson_

Now just the waiting till release =p

(for anyone who's reading ICE's stuff, there's a prologue of Stoneweilder floating around too)


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 24, 2010)

that's sweet news

now we twiddle our thumbs and wait


----------



## keiiya (Jul 24, 2010)

Hangat?r said:
			
		

> Really? Not, ya know, the epic characters, battles, various storylines, etc?
> 
> I mean, if you're struggling with Deadhouse Gates, you might as well give up on the series.


I guess I should have been a bit more explicit. I was refering to the chapters Felisin is in. 
And, the battle scenes are not really the bits of the book I enjoy the best.


----------



## Darth (Jul 28, 2010)

Finished Gardens of the Moon. i gotta say, everything came together wonderfully at the end. I love Kruppe now. The way he dealt with the Jaghut Tyrant was awesome. And I found it awesome that the Crimson Guard was protecting Crokus from the Tisti Andii. Their performance was awesome. I think I now get most of the jazz. 

One thing though, the glossary stated that Caladan Brood and Anomander Rake were Ascendants. And they lumped them in the same category as Oponn and Shadowthrone.

I never thought of them as being that powerful.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 28, 2010)

Darth said:


> Finished Gardens of the Moon. i gotta say, everything came together wonderfully at the end. I love Kruppe now. The way he dealt with the Jaghut Tyrant was awesome. And I found it awesome that the Crimson Guard was protecting Crokus from the Tisti Andii. Their performance was awesome. I think I now get most of the jazz.
> 
> One thing though, the glossary stated that Caladan Brood and Anomander Rake were Ascendants. And they lumped them in the same category as Oponn and Shadowthrone.
> 
> I never thought of them as being that powerful.



You have'nt seen the depths of there power.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Brood can kill everything on the planet. That's the kind of power he's got.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 28, 2010)

Darth said:


> I never thought of them as being that powerful.



A common theme in Malazan is that power takes different shapes and forms 

Charisma or sheer stubborn will can count as power in the Malazan universe, if you possess them in enough quantities, and may possibly lead to Ascendancy


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 28, 2010)

Darth said:


> Finished Gardens of the Moon. i gotta say, everything came together wonderfully at the end. I love Kruppe now. The way he dealt with the Jaghut Tyrant was awesome. And I found it awesome that the Crimson Guard was protecting Crokus from the Tisti Andii. Their performance was awesome. I think I now get most of the jazz.
> 
> One thing though, the glossary stated that Caladan Brood and Anomander Rake were Ascendants. And they lumped them in the same category as Oponn and Shadowthrone.
> 
> I never thought of them as being that powerful.



Rake is Knight of High House Dark as well as the Son of Darkness, Ascendents aren't all equal they have varying degrees of power anyways.

Also Brood is chosen one of Burn, and is the only one capable of awakening her from her slumber...


----------



## Mori` (Jul 28, 2010)

Glad you enjoyed it Darth, the one thing about the Malazan books is that they always wrap up in a particularly satisfying way imo =)


*Spoiler*: _Rake's power_ 



He's one of the most powerful beings in the malazverse =p Won't say any more, he gets a lot more screentime in later books anyway.





Kruppe is fantastic


----------



## Darth (Jul 28, 2010)

I've seen that picture a thousand times and I never knew it was Anomander Rake.

That's awesome.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 28, 2010)

there's a more 'updated' version


----------



## Lord Genome (Aug 1, 2010)

oh my god house of chains is amazing so far


----------



## Nimander (Aug 3, 2010)

That's what I love about Erikson's style.  He can write three, sometimes four separate main storylines in a book, yet find a way to bring them together wonderfully at the very end in an epic climax.  

Seriously; he's turned it into an art.


----------



## Crowe (Aug 11, 2010)

pek said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally lost interest for Dust of Dreams, hopefully something brings back my love for this series because I seem to have gotten over the "Wow" stage. It's just frustrating how it focuses so little on the characters you want to follow and so much on side characters and attempts to make the series seem deep with 10 paragraphs about a spiders pov and opinions >_>

Argh ! I'll go re-read Return of the Crimson Guard. I *really *do recommend you guys reading Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard.


----------



## Fang (Aug 11, 2010)

I'll stick halfway in Midnight Tides, just not a fan of the Tiste whatever and haven't started Night of Knives (the latter has been sitting on a desk beside my computer for about six months now).


----------



## Nimander (Aug 11, 2010)

pek said:


> Totally lost interest for Dust of Dreams, hopefully something brings back my love for this series because I seem to have gotten over the "Wow" stage. It's just frustrating how it focuses so little on the characters you want to follow and so much on side characters and attempts to make the series seem deep with 10 paragraphs about a spiders pov and opinions >_>
> 
> Argh ! I'll go re-read Return of the Crimson Guard. I *really *do recommend you guys reading Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard.



It's because Erikson isn't gonna cover a number of the characters introduced and their plotlines until the next story or some shit like that.  Feel free to rage at that; I sure as hell know I did.  

And yeah, I do agree to an extent.  Despite how much I LOVE his writing, Erikson does have an annoying habit of adding too many side characters as this story is supposed to be rounding up.  This means one of two things is going to happen.  1) The Crippled God is going to be MASSIVE in its closure of all the characters' stories/plotlines or 2) TCG is going to feel incomplete when it ends.  

I do sincerely hope it isn't the latter, because I've been reading MBotF since Freshman year of high school (nearly eight years now) and I'd be beyond pissed if after spending that much time on it it ends on an unsatisfactory note.


----------



## neodragzero (Aug 12, 2010)

TWF said:


> I'll stick halfway in Midnight Tides, just not a fan of the Tiste whatever and haven't started Night of Knives (the latter has been sitting on a desk beside my computer for about six months now).



Well, Midnight Tides gets better as you get used to the sudden change in EVERYTHING. I heard that Night of Knives wasn't that good. I bought Return of the Crimson Guard but I haven't read that quite yet.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 12, 2010)

Midnight Tides tends to be a weak link of the series, mainly due to just how boring the first half of the book is. This is mainly due to The Edur being just so damn unlikable in my opinion, and i'm serious when I feel that Trull is the only likable one out of the lot. 

I found myself longing for the segments with Tehol and Bugg everytime we got a Edur chapter. 

The book does start picking up steam though once the Edur invasion offically kicks off though in my opinion. The Invasion of Letheras at the end was great though with a convergence of the Edur, The Crimson Guard, Mael, The Errant, The Pack and the Tarthenal gods all being in the city at the same time.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 12, 2010)

Trull was indeed the only truly likable one out of the whole group, though Rhulad gets his own development near the end that makes him, if not likable, then at least understandable.  

And the development he gets in later books makes him one of the few Edur characters with any substance IMO.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 14, 2010)

...and the last stretch continues to be the best part of the books. I'm not even done with Reaper's Gale but lol.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Redmask is dead...but oh wait here comes the Barghast to fuck everybody over


----------



## neodragzero (Aug 15, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> ...and the last stretch continues to be the best part of the books. I'm not even done with Reaper's Gale but lol.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



...You might want to finish reading the book first.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 15, 2010)

neodragzero said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...You might want to finish reading the book first.



I just did. tis just posting about a part I liked. 

Proably be starting Toll the Hounds tomarrow.


----------



## neodragzero (Aug 15, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> I just did. tis just posting about a part I liked.
> 
> Proably be starting Toll the Hounds tomarrow.




*Spoiler*: __ 




Yet you think Redmask is actually dead...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 15, 2010)

neodragzero said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I posted my orignal piece before, Fake Redmask's unmasking. I finished the book all of 15 minutes ago. The original is obviously lurking somewhere with the K'Chain Cha'Melle or is dead himself, hence why somebody took up his identity.

Irregardless it doesn't really matter, the endings for each character were good...I knew Toc was going to die again, because he's "died" in every single one of his appearences...Karsa's last couple of scenes were great as well


----------



## neodragzero (Aug 15, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I posted my orignal piece before, Fake Redmask's unmasking. I finished the book all of 15 minutes ago. The original is obviously lurking somewhere with the K'Chain Cha'Melle or is dead himself, hence why somebody took up his identity.



*Spoiler*: __ 




Guess as much that.





> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




To tell the truth, I wasn't a big fan of the Redmask ending. Time for you to read Toll of Hounds.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 15, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah.  Redmask was one of those characters that just left me feeling plain confused.  I can't really say I liked him much.

And poor Toc; somehow, always managing to get shafted.  It's like Erikson just does not like his character, and instead finds ways to dispose of him in every book he makes an appearance.


----------



## Lord Genome (Aug 15, 2010)

oh my god house of chains is so awesome yet so hilarious

that scorpian battle had me dieing


----------



## KidTony (Aug 16, 2010)

slowly making my way through house of chains, one of the better books. The one thing i don't like sometimes is the random demons erickson throws out there, i have a hard time picturing them.


----------



## Lord Genome (Aug 16, 2010)

Just finished house of chains

that was probably the most sad bittersweet ending i've ever seen ever

  

on the flip side karsa fucking orlong is amazing


----------



## Nimander (Aug 17, 2010)

Fuck.  I've forgetten how House of Chains ends.  

Care to remind me?:33

nvm: I overcame my internet laziness and wiki'ed it.  Yes, that was indeed one of the more heartbreaking moments in the series, and that's saying something with the sheer amount of tragedy found in this series.  


*Spoiler*: __ 



But you can damn well bet that Erikson's saving that particular scene related to Tavore for something big in the finale.  She's been showing signs of being VERY fragile since T'amber's death, and finding out that Felisin was killed by her own hand is gonna finish the job like nothing else can.  I'm just curious as to which god is gonna be behind arranging the reveal (my money's on Shadowthrone, deliciously malicious bastard that he is)


----------



## Lord Genome (Aug 17, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



also there was the fact that the wirlwind goddess was onracks actual wife before stuff happened and the fact that she as surprised me

also fiddler and hedge meeting up made me happy 

but the whole tavore felisin thing made me just


----------



## Lord Genome (Aug 17, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Also nimander that thing about T'amber didnt happen in House of Chains


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 17, 2010)

LG, just wait until you get to Bonehunters


----------



## Nimander (Aug 17, 2010)

Lord Genome said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Also nimander that thing about T'amber didnt happen in House of Chains




*Spoiler*: __ 



Oh, I know it happens later on.  It's just one of those defining things in her storyline that you KNOW is gonna be important down the road.


----------



## Mori` (Aug 19, 2010)

^ pretty sure his point was that you just spoiled events from books he's yet to read, he is afterall posting his opinions having just finished reading HoC =p


----------



## Nimander (Aug 19, 2010)

Ahhhhhh.  Apologies, apologies.  As it was in the spoiler tags...I didn't think.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 5, 2010)

Is Fisher from Toll the Hounds by any chance related to or is indeed Fisher Kel-Tath the poet who tends to open up most of the chapters?

I'm about a quarter of the way through the book, and I was wondering.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 5, 2010)

it's who you think it is


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 24, 2010)

Just finished Toll the Hounds...great finale if I must say so myself. I actually came out kinda liking Kallor in this book...course his views on the Jaghut have done a complete 180 since Memories of Ice, but oh well...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Rake


----------



## Sinevelle (Oct 1, 2010)

Oh, this saga is a pure win. Heven't read the last one though. Hope I'll catch up soon. One thing I don't like is when Erikson starts to drone, which fortuntely happens less and less lately.


----------



## Yak (Oct 3, 2010)

Finally, finally onto Dust of Dreams now. 380 pages in so far and I missed reading Malazan-verse stuff so much that its almost unbearable that the saga soon comes to an end.


----------



## LifeMaker (Oct 3, 2010)

Yak said:


> Finally, finally onto Dust of Dreams now. 380 pages in so far and I missed reading Malazan-verse stuff so much that its almost unbearable that the saga soon comes to an end.



the ending of dust of dreams nearly burned my brain out with win for just _ one _ reason. look forward to it


----------



## gawsome (Oct 14, 2010)

I love Erikson. Like real man-love.

I love how he can weave tragedy / irreverance / pure epicness / political intrigue / ridiculously in depth world mythos into a comprehensive, flowing and engaging story.

So many rich, rich characters.

Its going to be a shame when it ends.

However, on the plus side, in the preface to a recent edition of Gardens of the Moon (had to rebuy it - it was falling to pieces) he was talking about the development of the world - he and Esslemont apparently have lots of stories (including histories) planned from years and years ago.

Esslemont's next book is out early November - whilst I don't enjoy his writing to the same degree as Erikson's, I'm glad we're getting a much more in depth coverage of areas that Erikson only touched on and sounded most interesting - Ammanas/Cotillion's ascension, Crimson Guard, internal aftermath of book 5, Korel etc

And I think, that avoids spoilers completely. Which is tricky cos I'm full to bursting.


----------



## gawsome (Oct 14, 2010)

I love Erikson. Like real man-love.

I love how he can weave tragedy / irreverance / pure epicness / political intrigue / ridiculously in depth world mythos into a comprehensive, flowing and engaging story.

So many rich, rich characters.

Its going to be a shame when it ends.

However, on the plus side, in the preface to a recent edition of Gardens of the Moon (had to rebuy it - it was falling to pieces) he was talking about the development of the world - he and Esslemont apparently have lots of stories (including histories) planned from years and years ago.

Esslemont's next book is out early November - whilst I don't enjoy his writing to the same degree as Erikson's, I'm glad we're getting a much more in depth coverage of areas that Erikson only touched on and sounded most interesting - Ammanas/Cotillion's ascension, Crimson Guard, internal aftermath of book 5, Korel etc

And I think, that avoids spoilers completely. Which is tricky cos I'm full to bursting.


----------



## Yak (Oct 27, 2010)

gawsome said:


> I love Erikson. Like real man-love.
> 
> I love how he can weave tragedy / irreverance / pure epicness / political intrigue / ridiculously in depth world mythos into a comprehensive, flowing and engaging story.
> 
> ...



I must say that I agree with this to the fullest (I am aware of the latness of this reply, since I hardly sign in on NF anymore) and I do feel the same about Esslemont's writing. Not saying it is inferior to Erikson's, just in a way very different.

I do enjoy his writing enough however and I look forward to the both of them doing many side stories for the coming years. I hope Esslemont explores the characters he introduced more; Greymane anyone?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 28, 2010)

Yeah, I'd like to see Greymane's story more, along with the other plot-lines he set up, like that whole thing with Mallick Rel


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 28, 2010)

halfway through Dust of Dreams at the moment...I think the Barghast have replaced the Edur as my least favorite race in the series...there's at best 3-5 of them that aren't completely unlikable


----------



## Mori` (Feb 14, 2011)

humdeedum, the crippled god is out within the week


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 14, 2011)

I guess since I start reading this I will come for a little discussion.

I honestly cant say much because I am on Deadhouse Gates and only about 200 pages in but I can at least say what I think so far.

So far I am not really impressed with this story. While I haven't read a ton of fantasy I have read a reasonable amount and this is the first series I have read where the first book didn't leave me wanting more. 

I honestly felt like I was trudging through a lot of the first book and the earliest parts of the 2nd book. I have a few complaints to make specifically.

1. There is SO much to take in. I felt like I had to study more than actually read for enjoyment. Don't get me wrong, I love the huge epics with tons of stuff in them but usually they are eased into a lot better. I have read The Wheel of Time and that didn't trouble me like this one has with keeping up with moving pieces and I am only on DG. I feel like there could have been.....Less I guess, at least until later books.

2. The writing was boring and overcomplicated in a lot of places. I would never claim to be super smart but I also wouldn't call myself dumb and am relatively well read, but this was just a bit much. I used this example in talking to some friends about Gardens of the Moon. If Erikson wants to tell me someone is wearing a blue cape then sometimes its good to just say "he was wearing a blue cape". I don't need a 1 paragraph poem telling me that "the cape was the blue of a sky after the rain ceased and the first flicker of a rainbow has appeared". I just felt like he did that a bit too much. 

I have only read it once and could be exaggerating, but that is what I felt as I read it.

3. Some of the information at the beginning of the chapters (the little excerpts) just seemed.....Useless to me. Maybe I missed something but it had no meaning as I read nor did it seem to serve a purpose. Did anyone else get the feeling Erikson was just trying to show he can write things that sound deep and meaningful instead of putting items of interest at the beginning? Because I did.

Anyway if you haven't negged me by now please don't, I am getting to the positives.

Despite all my complaints there isn't a character I can think of I didn't enjoy reading about. Again, I only read it once and there was so much to take in, but I cant recall any parts where I just really thought "man I hope I don't have to read more about him/her/it". I didn't like Krup at first because the way he spoke got on my nerves but he slowly grew on me throughout. I also thought the action was done really well and I like how Erikson doesn't hold back on the gritty details. He really brings it in these areas. 

I feel a huge potential in these books and as I read Deadhouse gates I am slowly getting pulled more and more in despite my early complaints.


----------



## masamune1 (Feb 14, 2011)

I get what you're saying. I managed to get through the first three books eventually but as I started working through the fourth....I just put it down. That was about 2 years ago. It's a bad habit with me in general and this was'nt the only reason but damn, this was a pretty intimidating read.  



> 3. Some of the information at the beginning of the chapters (the little excerpts) just seemed.....Useless to me. Maybe I missed something but it had no meaning as I read nor did it seem to serve a purpose. Did anyone else get the feeling Erikson was just trying to show he can write things that sound deep and meaningful instead of putting items of interest at the beginning? Because I did.



What useless parts were that?

Because, while I can't remember the book perfectly or anything, I get the feeling that a lot of the stuff you are talking about are things that might end up mattering more later on.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 14, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> What useless parts were that?
> 
> Because, while I can't remember the book perfectly or anything, I get the feeling that a lot of the stuff you are talking about are things that might end up mattering more later on.



Honestly most of it. 

I get that some of it may have been historical info and all that but by the time you digest everything and are 5 books in are you really going to remember the little poem thing at the beginning of chapter 6 pt 1 of Gardens of the Moon? I know I wouldn't 

I, like you, don't remember too many specifics but I know the reason I don't remember them has a lot to do with the fact that they meant nothing at the time. 

If they are significant later on then cool, but I feel like if we try and judge this standalone book, it is just useless info that only added to the questions and confusion.


----------



## LifeMaker (Feb 19, 2011)

Just a couple of days until The Crippled God. I am most looking forwards to it


----------



## mow (Feb 19, 2011)

@Cyphon; Really valid thoughts, I can assure you that the second Half of Deadhouse Gates picks up the ball and runs with it widely, and I'm willing to bet you will be crying your heart at that portion of the book. Book 1 tends to be a sludgy book for many people, but you have to realise that it carries 6 or 7 major plot points that are later on addressed in other book. It's more engine/mechanics of the plot, but you will ultimately be rewarded when you see how those plot threads get unraveled later on. 

 If it makes it worthwhile alot of people I know told me (before I picked up the book) that Gardens of the Moon will be a tough one to go through. I enjoyed it, but totally hear where you're coming from. But look at it logically, this is going to be a 10,000 page story, spending 700 or so pages is hardly much as an attempt to lay the framework / back story of such a tale. 

Regarding the length/amount of material to ingest, I can defo acknowledge  it being overwhelming to a first reader, but you have to look at it this way, this is not a story, this a universe, and he's weaving a very intricate painting of how everything operates. And as detailed and analytical as it goes, it still manages to be emotional and showcases some of the finest black comedy there is. 

Context of opening historical notes/poems all relate to the minor/major plot threads of book. 

so yeah, basically, hang in there and finish book 2, everything falls into place with it's 2nd half and continues to roll during the other books. It's definitely a beast to ingest, so good luck, and all I can say is that it's going to be worthwhile. Every book is interconnected and plot threads mingle with each other through out the story. The most rewarding aspect of the book is the re reading angle of it of all.

I'm re-reading the entire series in prep for The Crippled god. On Memories of Ice atm. I plan to have finished reading all 9 books again by April-May, where I'll be in Canada, and hopefully able to pick up the entire collection in Hardcover format.


----------



## jkingler (Feb 19, 2011)

^My thoughts exactly. I have read most of the books twice, and reread several books several times beyond that, and each time I revisit, I enjoy and appreciate the books more, ESPECIALLY the parts that seemed slow and least interesting the first time around. I am about 120 pages into Dust of Dreams now, and I am reading it slowly (even though it is very, very hard), since I don't want to be left hanging for The Crippled God to round everything out. XD

Love this series, love Erikson, and love that Mike and I (mostly Mike, I'm sure) finally got you into everything Mezla, Moe.


----------



## mow (Feb 19, 2011)

I am a better man due to you 2


----------



## Mori` (Feb 22, 2011)

I didn't realise moemoe had picked up the series =)

I have the crippled god sitting next to me but I have huge work deadlines for Friday, it's quite possibly the biggest test of willpower I've ever had to deal with lol


----------



## LifeMaker (Feb 25, 2011)

Just opening the Crippled God up now. it's taken quite an effort to resist to the weekend but i want no distractions


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## Cyphon (Feb 25, 2011)

mow said:


> @Cyphon; Really valid thoughts, I can assure you that the second Half of Deadhouse Gates picks up the ball and runs with it widely, and I'm willing to bet you will be crying your heart at that portion of the book. Book 1 tends to be a sludgy book for many people, but you have to realise that it carries 6 or 7 major plot points that are later on addressed in other book. It's more engine/mechanics of the plot, but you will ultimately be rewarded when you see how those plot threads get unraveled later on.
> 
> If it makes it worthwhile alot of people I know told me (before I picked up the book) that Gardens of the Moon will be a tough one to go through. I enjoyed it, but totally hear where you're coming from. But look at it logically, this is going to be a 10,000 page story, spending 700 or so pages is hardly much as an attempt to lay the framework / back story of such a tale.
> 
> ...



Fair enough points made and I understand what you mean as well. My main issue is even when explaining it like you do I go back to the idea that it is the authors job to be able to pull people in on the first book even when it does have to lay the groundwork for something so expansive and Erickson simply didn't do that. 

If we didn't have people to tell us how good it gets would we have kept reading? I personally don't think I would have but I cant say with 100% certainty. 

Anyway complaints aside I am on the last chapter of Deadhouse and it has drawn me into the story a lot more. The stuff with Coltaine and how that ended up was crazy. Loved it. I liked the battle Mappo was having with himself throughout the entire story in concern to Icarium. A lot of good things in this one.

Erickson is certainly good at slowly bringing everything together as these books unfold and it is something I look forward to from the future books. 

Onto the third book today.


----------



## LifeMaker (Feb 25, 2011)

Momories of Ice is possibly my favourite of the series up to now, so hopefully you'll enjoy it 

I must say i still don't get a lot of the critisism for Gardens of the Moon. sure the ending is a bit funky, but i found it a lot tighter than his other books in the series. i know he wrote it epically ealier than his other works (and he apparently lost a near complete manuscript for memories of ice, which is why deadhouse gates was book 2 instead of it)  but i enjoyed it.

anyway, Memories of Ice is win, to my mind


----------



## neodragzero (Feb 25, 2011)

So, the last novel of the series comes out next month. I can finally start reading Dust of Dreams soon.


----------



## mow (Feb 25, 2011)

TomTom! It's been ages mate, how have you been? 



Cyphon said:


> Fair enough points made and I understand what you mean as well. My main issue is even when explaining it like you do I go back to the idea that it is the authors job to be able to pull people in on the first book even when it does have to lay the groundwork for something so expansive and Erickson simply didn't do that.
> 
> If we didn't have people to tell us how good it gets would we have kept reading? I personally don't think I would have but I cant say with 100% certainty.
> 
> ...



Glad you hanged in! Deadhouse Gates really pays off, and the chain of dogs is one of the best things I've ever read in my life. The chapter with Coltaine guts me man, I'm not joking at all.

I definitely relate to your issue about authors  needing to sell it instead of having people do it for them, I had that exact problem with One Piece. But in this particular case, Gardens of the Moon is pure genius once you go back for a re read, I honestly believe it was Erikson's intention from the start, so many cards are laid open for us and with context, the way it all adds up is just insane.

Hope you enjoy it, I love Memories of Ice too and the struggles get more deep, and you really see what is truly at stake in that book.



neodragzero said:


> So, the last novel of the series comes out next month. I can finally start reading Dust of Dreams soon.



I'm planning to by the entire series in hardcover, TCG included. I'll only read it after doing that >_< I'm @ Toll the Hounds in my re-read marathon, Hood's balls how i love this book.


----------



## Cyphon (Feb 25, 2011)

mow said:


> Glad you hanged in! Deadhouse Gates really pays off, and the chain of dogs is one of the best things I've ever read in my life. The chapter with Coltaine guts me man, I'm not joking at all.



I feel you on that. Everything leading up to it even from the beginning of the book just questioning Coltaine's sanity or whatever and then seeing how he did what he did. 

I wont elaborate in case any new readers are looking but yeah. Great great part.



> I definitely relate to your issue about authors  needing to sell it instead of having people do it for them, I had that exact problem with One Piece. But in this particular case, Gardens of the Moon is pure genius once you go back for a re read, I honestly believe it was Erikson's intention from the start, so many cards are laid open for us and with context, the way it all adds up is just insane.



I figured it would get better through rereads later on since you would have a far better grip on the story and be able to find more appreciation in the details. It still seems risky to me though. 



> Hope you enjoy it, I love Memories of Ice too and the struggles get more deep, and you really see what is truly at stake in that book.



Another person told me 3 and 4 were his favorite books so we shall see. It sucks that my hopes are even higher for this book in particular than they were with the series. Its hard to push that aside as you are reading and just waiting for it to go to that level.


----------



## LifeMaker (Feb 27, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _ i've finally finished The Crippled God, my thoughts.... major EPIC SPOILERS IN HERE!!!!!!!_ 





So, finally finished it. My first thoughts.... it's good, and being a final book in a series gives it extra flavour, but it's not the best. Top half though, certainly...

Firstly... it could have done with a coupole hundredpages of the desert march culling, it dragged and was too repetetive. i get what he was trying to emphasise, but a lot seemed like filler, anyway...

* The Good *

Icarium not being stuck in an Azath, turns out he's too boss even for that ... 

The Forkrul Assail... well characterised, made good villains

The ending. Fitting although a lot was left undone, most likely for the other books

Payoff from the Snake. Not sure it was enough considering the snake was kinda boring ... but at least it was there

Tehol. Even not in the book really he still rules

The Otataral dragon

Draconus. Man he ruled this book

Shadowthrone/Cottilion - Finally got to see that they were the true masters behind the plan, along with Rake and Hood

* The Bad *

Like i said, the desert crossing dragged a ton.

Mappo's arc. All that, just to die... i know his death catalysed the end of Calm and ruined her plan for Icarium, but... arc with big setup and small payoff

The Tiste Liosan. Man, they sucked. Even the Edur were tougher. I guess the Andii got all the power in that family bracket

* The Interesting *

Info on Hust Legions.
Info on just how Icarioum is so strong
Info on dragons. Tons of it
Jade statue/crippled god/heboric cleanup

and quite a bit more juicy world building


and final thoughts... Icarium and his new protector... *grin*

we definitely need a book on Icarium to end his arc. Also Skinner wasn't in the book as expected, and karsa has more to do. I expect the forthcoming books from Steve and Ian will take care of this.

Anyway, i'll give the book an 8 out of ten


----------



## Lucero del Alba (Feb 27, 2011)

Oh, I didn't know you fuckers were posting in here.

I also didn't know there had long been digital copies of The Crippled God floating. I am a little disgusted, this second.

Tomorrow, once I am sober again, I shall consume.

I will need my wits about me, after all.

Tonight, I continue drunk reading what I have already started.

[I am just a little bit manically fucking excited, though. I can barely sit still reading the tripe I am drinking my way through right now, knowing that it's only a click away... I even cheated and read the intro poem a few minutes ago. I had marked the first for its release here, planning to raid the barnes and nobles down the street and hijack a copy through whatever means necessary. Mostly thievery or camping, depending on how it played out. Heh.]


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## Cyphon (Feb 28, 2011)

Reading Memories of Ice right now.

THIS is what I have been waiting for!


----------



## Sasuke (Mar 1, 2011)

I just read through Gardens of the Moon in a few days and ordered the entire series from Amazon. This is my first step into the Fantasy genre so I don't know how it compares to others, but I like it a lot, and I hear it only gets better.


----------



## neodragzero (Mar 1, 2011)

Your very first step? That's going to narrow what should impress you from the genre quite a bit.

I just bought the last and final book on Amazon. Hardcover.


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## LifeMaker (Mar 1, 2011)

I'd say malazan is maybe a bit heavy and meaty for a first journey in, but at least you're starting with Quality, Sasuke.

I'm just happy to have a doorstopper fantasy epic series actually finished, rather than waiting on books, although thwere's still more to be explored in sure


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 1, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> I just read through Gardens of the Moon in a few days and ordered the entire series from Amazon. This is my first step into the Fantasy genre so I don't know how it compares to others, but I like it a lot, and I hear it only gets better.



Personally I am surprised you bought the rest after the first one 

I bought them all before I read the first one but admittedly I am not regretting it now.

Anyway, when you finish the series come back for more fantasy recommendations. I assure you your list will feel endless.


----------



## Tempproxy (Mar 2, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> *I just read through Gardens of the Moon in a few days and ordered the entire series from Amazon*. This is my first step into the Fantasy genre so I don't know how it compares to others, but I like it a lot, and I hear it only gets better.



Hardon for Anomander Rake right? Dont worry you are not alone.


----------



## LifeMaker (Mar 2, 2011)

Tempproxy said:


> Hardon for Anomander Rake right? Dont worry you are not alone.



And to think that ol' Steve worried that noone would like him 

Foolish indeed, as Anomander is the man


----------



## Mori` (Mar 2, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> I just read through Gardens of the Moon in a few days and ordered the entire series from Amazon. This is my first step into the Fantasy genre so I don't know how it compares to others, but I like it a lot, and I hear it only gets better.



Welcome to the Genre xD

Malazan (and a lot of the new breed of fantasy) is pretty deep compared to a lot of the generic heroes/villains epic fantasy that I think most people associate with the genre.

Glad you enjoyed the first book =)

====

I have around 150 pages left of the Crippled God and I've reached that stage in a book where I don't want to finish something and admit that it's over. Instead I just want it to hang on to that blissful state of anticipation, it's hard to admit that it's all coming to a close (even if there are 2 more erikson trilogies and more ICE too xD).


----------



## Lucero del Alba (Mar 2, 2011)

> I've reached that stage in a book where I don't want to finish something and admit that it's over. Instead I just want it to hang on to that blissful state of anticipation, it's hard to admit that it's all coming to a close



I have that problem. I just started it last night; around halfway through, now. But I had it for days before that, and just couldn't make myself do it. I'd open it, stare at it for an hour and then close it. Not yet, I'm not ready. Heh.

I still don't want to finish. I have to fight myself to continue. I find myself pursuing any distraction I can find, like posting right now, which is out of character for me. And then I stretch those distractions, trying to make myself lose the mood, at which point I moon around for a couple hours, not doing anything at all but successfully avoiding progressing any further towards finishing malazan.

I've never taken so long to read anything in my life, which seems at odds with the fact that there's never been anything I've ever wanted to read so very badly.

It feels like if I drag my feet to the funeral, they'll get to live longer.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 3, 2011)

About a quarter of the way through the book...the Forkrul Assail make some good villians.


*Spoiler*: __ 



The Crippled God is not the final boss you're looking for


----------



## Mori` (Mar 4, 2011)

I finished it ^___^

Overall very satisfied, it's almost impossible to write a final book that satisfies everyone, but for me I felt it nailed most of what I cared about.

Hats off to Steven Erikson


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## LifeMaker (Mar 4, 2011)

I quite agree. Unfortunately there's still plenty more I want about a certain character though so I'm hoping highly for the next books SE delivers


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## Taleran (Mar 4, 2011)

Excellent, I have been waiting since Book 9 came out to read both of them, Cliffhangers be damned and now I can begin.


----------



## Yulwei (Mar 5, 2011)

Needed more Quick Ben and a conclusion for the Paran's. Other that it was an ending that felt like an ending so I'm satisfied.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 7, 2011)

Just finished _Memories of Ice_ and it definitely trumps the first 2 books in keeping me entertained and I am now an official fan of the series. There was hardly any part or people I didn't enjoy reading and the battle at the end and the deaths 

I will start _House of Chains_ later today.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 7, 2011)

I just went through the character list for _House of Chains_ and have a question. Does it continue on this pattern where no 2 books have consistent characters? I dunno if it is just me but its hard to keep jumping back and forth when you are trying to remember why everyone is relevant and what they did before when they are gone for an entire book. 

I spend the entirety of one book taking in everything an adjusting to who knows who and where they stand and then in the next its a whole new ballgame. I haven't started reading it yet so these are premature complaints but this almost feels like an overwhelming test as opposed to enjoyable reading. Not that _Memories of Ice_ wasn't great as I said above but man. I feel like with each new book I need to jump back 2 and read that one to get back acquainted with the characters.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 7, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> I just went through the character list for _House of Chains_ and have a question. Does it continue on this pattern where no 2 books have consistent characters? I dunno if it is just me but its hard to keep jumping back and forth when you are trying to remember why everyone is relevant and what they did before when they are gone for an entire book.
> 
> I spend the entirety of one book taking in everything an adjusting to who knows who and where they stand and then in the next its a whole new ballgame. I haven't started reading it yet so these are premature complaints but this almost feels like an overwhelming test as opposed to enjoyable reading. Not that _Memories of Ice_ wasn't great as I said above but man. I feel like with each new book I need to jump back 2 and read that one to get back acquainted with the characters.



Basically what's going to happen is after this book, you get Midnight Tides which tells what happened to Trull Sengar before House of Chains, and tells of the utterly boring Tiste Edur race...on the bright side we also get the Letherii to make up for the complete blandness that is the Edur.

Then comes Bonehunters which shifts back to Tavore and Co (Fiddler, Quick Ben, Kalam, Etc)...then comes Reaper's Gale which goes back to the Edur and Letherii, but the Malazans (and Karsa Orlong and Icarium show up) part way through. Toll the Hounds takes us back to a Genabackis. Then comes Dust of Dreams and The Crippled God, which finishes up the main series...by going back to Tavore


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## Cyphon (Mar 7, 2011)

Damn man. I feel thats such an odd way to do. I finished MOI and was excited to read more about those people and instead I am stuck with mostly strangers. I am obviously going to keep reading so it isn't too much of a deterrent but what does everyone else think about it?

Do you like this approach or would you prefer it a different way?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 7, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> Damn man. I feel thats such an odd way to do. I finished MOI and was excited to read more about those people and instead I am stuck with mostly strangers. I am obviously going to keep reading so it isn't too much of a deterrent but what does everyone else think about it?
> 
> Do you like this approach or would you prefer it a different way?



I actually like it the way it's set up. With House of Chains we get the end of the Whirlwind story and we are also introduced to Karsa Orlong, our Conan the Barbarian stand in for the series (Though technically he was there in Deadhouse Gates as well).  Karsa goes on to become one of my favorite characters in the series.

With Midnight Tides, we get some backstory and our introductions for Tehol Beddict and Bugg...

With Bonehunters all the stories start to really converge though...it also sends Crokus and a few other characters off to Genabackis to take part in the events of Toll the Hounds. 

Reaper's Gale opens again in Letheras and soon Karsa Orlong, Icarium and Tavore and the Bonehunters show as well....

Then we get Toll the Hounds, switches between POV's of Crokus, Rake, Mappo, Gruntle, Karsa Orlong, and the retired Bridgeburners...oh and Draconus.

With Dust of Dreams it's back again to Letheras, as The Bonehunters are setting off the final showdown in the Crippled God...

Let's just say you'll like the spacing better once you get to those books...


----------



## Fang (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm going to give Midnight Tides one last chance after I'm done with Night of Knives (fantastic read, don't let anyone fool you if you haven't read it yet) and try to get back into Malazan.


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## Emperor Joker (Mar 7, 2011)

Fang said:


> I'm going to give Midnight Tides one last chance after I'm done with Night of Knives (fantastic read, don't let anyone fool you if you haven't read it yet) and try to get back into Malazan.



Yeah I know

The first bit of Midnight tides is hard to get through, if only the Edur weren't so completely boring it would have made getting through thier POV's much easier. The Letherii segments were a breeze though as Tehol and Bugg were more than enough to make up for the Edur's blandness.


----------



## Mori` (Mar 8, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> Damn man. I feel thats such an odd way to do. I finished MOI and was excited to read more about those people and instead I am stuck with mostly strangers. I am obviously going to keep reading so it isn't too much of a deterrent but what does everyone else think about it?
> 
> Do you like this approach or would you prefer it a different way?



Erikson and Esselmont (his friend he created the world with, amd who also writes a few books in it) created the world first, and the stories in it sort of came later. In this particular instance, the books are telling the tale of numerous people in the lead up to one of the biggest events in the worlds history, and as such he likes to offer up fresh PoV's and flesh the story out with actions occuring in different places.

Personally it's usually something I really enjoy, though occasionally there can be the odd dud. If it reassures you I can tell you that most of the important plot lines/characters from the books will be tied back in again later.

Book 4 will still feature some familiar cast members from the 2nd book, and introduces a number of important/interesting members of the cast as well. The first section of the book is slightly different to what he's written in the first 3 books in that he sticks with one character for a while, though that change up was actually something I rather enjoyed and the character is worth it.

Book 5 introduces the last major diversion of cast and location (after that it jumps around a bit, but we don't shift to completely new protagonists or anything), but for all of that it's one of my favourite books so...

To answer the question do I like the approach or not, I don't think I'd have it any other way for Malazan.


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## Cyphon (Mar 8, 2011)

I started _House of Chains_ now and I am definitely enjoying the early POV so far. Its not like I haven't enjoyed different characters and POV's its just that I finally get connected to a certain group of them and then they are gone. I think the major issue is just the vastness. It probably wouldn't as big a deal if it were easier to remember everything that was going on. 

I don't want to speak to soon on any one feeling because I am not that far in yet. I am just giving my early impressions as I read through.


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## Sasuke (Mar 11, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> Personally I am surprised you bought the rest after the first one
> 
> I bought them all before I read the first one but admittedly I am not regretting it now.
> 
> Anyway, when you finish the series come back for more fantasy recommendations. I assure you your list will feel endless.



Well, I was pretty committed to the series prior to even reading the first book. I heard some stuff from a friend and did a little research online. Anyway, it's not technically my first step into the genre I guess, I read the LOTR books years ago but found them nothing special. Just started Memories of Ice, Deadhouse Gates was pretty darn good. The characters are simply amazing in comparison to what I usually come across.

So has the series finished with the recently released The Crippled God? 




Tempproxy said:


> Hardon for Anomander Rake right? Dont worry you are not alone.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 11, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> So has the series finished with the recently released The Crippled God?



The main story has finished, but there are still side stories and prequels that will wrap up the series proper. One is a trilogy about Anomander Rake.


----------



## Mori` (Mar 11, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> So has the series finished with the recently released The Crippled God?



The _Malazan book of the fallen_ series has just finished with the release of the Crippled god yes.

Erikson is contracted for 2 further trilogies set in the world

1) detailing events from the Tiste Andii's distant past

2) related to the Toblakai (I think).

His close friend Ian Cameron Esslemont also has novels set in the universe (they aren't quite as good imo, but they have their own strengths) that have some cross over content with the main Malazan storylines, and that feature a number of familiar characters, and flesh out stories from other parts of the world. These include:

1 Novella

Night of Knives, related to events on Malaz Isle when the Emperor and Dancer were overthrone.

2 Novels

Return of the Crimson Guard, related to the Crimson Guards return to Malazan occupied areas, as well as the Malazan Empires struggles on other continents (fits somewhere around reapers gale and toll the hounds).

Stonewielder, related to the Malazan Empire's attempted invasion of the Korel subcontinent, the secrets of the islands ancient history and its most prominent cult, as well as the ongoing struggle in defence of the Stormwall.

His third is on the way and is titled Orb Sceptre Throne (terrible title >_>), it's set in Darujhistan fairly soon after Toll the Hounds/similar time to Stonewielder.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 15, 2011)

Okay I just finished _House of Chains_ and it was pretty good. I think I liked Memories better but _House of Chains_ is a close second.

A couple of things I didn't get.

1. Who was it that put their hand on Kallams shoulder that he recognized from his past?

2. Why did Apsalar leave Crockus? I didn't understand the decision or where she went.

3. Someone please explain what happened with Trull Sengar when he ran into that girl from the race that was alive before the Imass. Did she rape him? I didn't understand that part at all either.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 15, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> Okay I just finished _House of Chains_ and it was pretty good. I think I liked Memories better but _House of Chains_ is a close second.
> 
> A couple of things I didn't get.
> 
> ...



Apsalar left Cutter because she didn't like seeing him go down the same path she was. doesn't really matter as he still went on to become a top notch assassin either way.

Yes, the Eres'al pretty much raped Trull, she comes back later on as well. I'm not really certain as to the point of that was anyways, unless it gives her an anchor to the present, so that she can mess with Bottle in future books


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 15, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Apsalar left Cutter because she didn't like seeing him go down the same path she was. doesn't really matter as he still went on to become a top notch assassin either way.



Is that a spoiler? 

Damn man it seems dumb she didn't just talk to him but isn't that how it always works in these books. 



> Yes, the Eres'al pretty much raped Trull, she comes back later on as well. I'm not really certain as to the point of that was anyways, unless it gives her an anchor to the present, so that she can mess with Bottle in future books



Is that another spoiler 

And I assume you don't have an answer the question 1? Is it that you don't remember the scene or we just really don't know based on what they told us?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 15, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> Is that a spoiler?
> 
> Damn man it seems dumb she didn't just talk to him but isn't that how it always works in these books.
> 
> ...



Well you asked for an explanation...but yeah sorry the series is hard to explain without giving stuff away, i;ll try harder with your next round...irregardless they're not big spoilers.

Yeah no answer for question one, because I don't know wat scene you are referring to.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 15, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Well you asked for an explanation...but yeah sorry the series is hard to explain without giving stuff away, i;ll try harder with your next round...irregardless they're not big spoilers.



Nah its really no problem. I will forget by the time I get back to those characters anyway.



> Yeah no answer for question one, because I don't know wat scene you are referring to.



It was near the end when Kallam was about to go into Korbolo Dom's tent....I think. He was there looking and someone laid a hand on his shoulder and said "eyes forward soldier" and he said he recognized the voice but the guy was supposed to be dead. And they told him they would create a distraction for him.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 15, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> Nah its really no problem. I will forget by the time I get back to those characters anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> It was near the end when Kallam was about to go into Korbolo Dom's tent....I think. He was there looking and someone laid a hand on his shoulder and said "eyes forward soldier" and he said he recognized the voice but the guy was supposed to be dead. And they told him they would create a distraction for him.



Probably Hedge then, since the dead Bridgeburners showed up at the convergence there.


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## Cyphon (Mar 15, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Probably Hedge then, since the dead Bridgeburners showed up at the convergence there.



Nah he didn't know the Bridgeburners were dead at the time. This was some captain of his from a long time ago who's face was burnt by acid I think. It was before Surly killed everyone. Well, the guy being referenced was said to be found dead right after the Surly assassinations.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 15, 2011)

Almost done with The Crippled God


*Spoiler*: __ 



Hood shows us once again he likes to arrive in style...and Fener shows he is truely the chewtoy of the pantheon


----------



## Taleran (Mar 20, 2011)

God reading Dust of Dreams has been reminding me of exactly why I like this series so much more than other modern Fantasy. It doesn't shy away from the tropes / concepts of a Fantasy novel while at the same time playing them all in ways that haven't really been seen.

Also the World is probably the most thought out Fantasy World since LoTR, you really get the sense of history and evolution reading the books which is something lacking in a lot of worlds.


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## Sasuke (Mar 20, 2011)

Enjoying the hell out of Memories of Ice right now. I was thinking of reading Night of Knives next but I'm not so sure. Is it worth reading them in chronological order or the order in which they were published? originally I was planning on reading Esslemont's after finishing Erikson's entire collection. But I'm not so sure that's a great idea, I hear they aren't anywhere near as good and I would rather read a few in between Erikson's.


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## LifeMaker (Mar 20, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> Enjoying the hell out of Memories of Ice right now. I was thinking of reading Night of Knives next but I'm not so sure. Is it worth reading them in chronological order or the order in which they were published? originally I was planning on reading Esslemont's after finishing Erikson's entire collection. But I'm not so sure that's a great idea, I hear they aren't anywhere near as good and I would rather read a few in between Erikson's.



Memories of Ice is a pure winner 

The esselmont books arent quite as good, true, but they are still decent. Not neccesary reads to the main sequence, but nonetheless fun


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## Mori` (Mar 21, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> Enjoying the hell out of Memories of Ice right now. I was thinking of reading Night of Knives next but I'm not so sure. Is it worth reading them in chronological order or the order in which they were published? originally I was planning on reading Esslemont's after finishing Erikson's entire collection. But I'm not so sure that's a great idea, I hear they aren't anywhere near as good and I would rather read a few in between Erikson's.



If you want to read them:

Read NoK around when you read the Bonehunters (before or after).

Read RotCG before Toll the Hounds (can do after, I think it works better before).

Read Stonewielder whenever (i've not read it yet).

They aren't as good as Erikson's, but if you enjoy the Malazan series and world they are still decent reads.


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## Sasuke (Mar 21, 2011)

Gracias. I'll just follow your suggestions.


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## Darth (Mar 30, 2011)

Almost done with Memories of Ice. Really enjoying the interplay and conflict between Paran and Silverfox. Itkovian turned from a somewhat stale supporting character into a badass with a position of authority.

So far, so awesome. 

Also, Coll and Murillio are kicking things up oldschool style. Their meeting with the Knight of House Death was pretty awesome.


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 1, 2011)

I finished Memories of Ice yesterday

wow

What an amazing book 

Though I hope a certain someones role in the series isn't really over. ;___;


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 1, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> I finished Memories of Ice yesterday
> 
> wow
> 
> ...



Whom are you referring to?


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 1, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



whiskeyjack


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 1, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> whiskeyjack




*Spoiler*: __ 



Oh yeah he's dead for good...though that doesn't stop him from showing up in later books.


----------



## Darth (Apr 9, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> I finished Memories of Ice yesterday
> 
> wow
> 
> ...


I know exactly who you mean! 


Emperor Joker said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah he's dead for good...though that doesn't stop him from showing up in later books.



You bastard! How dare you spoil that for me. 

lol. I probably shouldn't have clicked that spoiler.

But yeah, Memories of Ice was pretty insane. I can't wait to get the next book now.


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## Cyphon (Apr 9, 2011)

Currently need to start the 5th book and have been ready for a couple of weeks but can't bring myself to do it. The series up until this point hasn't really gotten me very excited and I have heard the 5th book isn't very good from a couple of people. Its hard to find the motivation to even start it. It sucks because I hate not continuing but it has been nearly a month now and I can't bring myself to pick it up and get started. 

Anyone have some motivation to offer?


----------



## masamune1 (Apr 9, 2011)

I have the exact same problem with the 4th book

And its been that way for about 2 years or so.

.....

Probably not the encouraging words you wanted to hear.


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## Cyphon (Apr 9, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> I have the exact same problem with the 4th book
> 
> And its been that way for about 2 years or so.
> 
> ...



Not at all, but at least I read the 4th book already. Book 3 and 4 actually got me more interested in the series but not enough to make me want to read 5 when I heard it is the worst one up until this point and possibly in the whole series. 

The worst part is even though 3 and 4 were good I can't use that as motivation because he switches the characters every book so there is no guarantee I would be interested.


----------



## KidTony (Apr 9, 2011)

thing is for me, Erickson is hard to will yourself to read. His books are epic in every sense of the word, but they are hard to get into and the constant changing of characters makes it extra hard. I'm still stuck somewhere a quarter into House of Chains.


----------



## Mori` (Apr 9, 2011)

I don't understand that people hate on book 5, it's one of my favourites. Maybe it's just jarring because it's the last major location/character switch.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 9, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> Currently need to start the 5th book and have been ready for a couple of weeks but can't bring myself to do it. The series up until this point hasn't really gotten me very excited and I have heard the 5th book isn't very good from a couple of people. Its hard to find the motivation to even start it. It sucks because I hate not continuing but it has been nearly a month now and I can't bring myself to pick it up and get started.
> 
> Anyone have some motivation to offer?



Point of advice. Read it for the Letherii, because the Edur are boring as all hell, and quite possibly one of the blandest species i've sever come across. 

On the otherhand the Letherii (the people who are supposed to be the villians for the book) come off as supremely likable and all the personality seems to have been given to them.


----------



## Cyphon (Apr 10, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Point of advice. Read it for the Letherii, because the Edur are boring as all hell, and quite possibly one of the blandest species i've sever come across.
> 
> On the otherhand the Letherii (the people who are supposed to be the villians for the book) come off as supremely likable and all the personality seems to have been given to them.



I believe you mentioned this before and this is honestly a decent piece of motivation but I can't help thinking it will be boring. 

I am really going to make a concentrated effort to pick it up and start soon.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 12, 2011)

Finished the series.

I liked the last 2 books a lot because they weren't what I expected them to be from what was set up around the God who became the focal point. Also I enjoyed how he did not feel the need to tie up every loose end but only the ones really important to the story. Also the Battle at the end did justice to the series as a whole.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 12, 2011)

_And now the page before us blurs.
An age is done. The book must close.
We are abandoned to history.
Raise high one more time the tattered standard
Of the Fallen. See through the drifting smoke
To the dark stains upon the fabric.
This is the blood of our lives, this is the
Payment of our deeds, all soon to be
Forgotten.
We were never what people could be.
We were only what we were.

Remember us._​
we'll indeed remember


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 20, 2011)

I was kind of reluctant to start up Midnight Tides after hearing it wasn't as good as the previous four and only having a few days here and there  between reading them all.

But I'm finding it enjoyable. Agree about the Edur comments here though. The Letherii are much more interesting.


----------



## LifeMaker (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasuke said:


> I was kind of reluctant to start up Midnight Tides after hearing it wasn't as good as the previous four and only having a few days here and there  between reading them all.
> 
> But I'm finding it enjoyable. Agree about the Edur comments here though. The Letherii are much more interesting.



Yeah. Edur are bland as hell apart from like two of 'em.

Whereas tehol is just great


----------



## Darth (Apr 22, 2011)

KidTony said:


> thing is for me, Erickson is hard to will yourself to read. His books are epic in every sense of the word, but they are hard to get into and the constant changing of characters makes it extra hard. I'm still stuck somewhere a quarter into House of Chains.



I just started House of Chains. I'm about 80 pages in and though I like Karsa and I liked Delum before he got mind raped, I see exactly what you're getting at. The constant change of characters is getting a tad bit irritating, but I skimmed ahead and saw Kalam's name later on in the book and the name alone is motivation enough to continue reading. Cause he's such a badass character. ;p


----------



## LifeMaker (Apr 23, 2011)

I found Karsa really annoying to start with, but he grows on you like mould, i find


----------



## Darth (Apr 30, 2011)

LifeMaker said:


> I found Karsa really annoying to start with, but he grows on you like mould, i find



I finished House of Chains. Karsa is a fucking badass at the end of it. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Killing two hounds of Shadow, intimidating two Jaghut, and fighting to a draw with Icarium. He's just a supreme badass. 




Starting Midnight Tides. Unfortunately just realized that there are no malazans in it at all. Or Tiste Andii for that matter. And those two are the only two factions I give a damn about. 

I hope the Edur and the Letharii are worth the read though.


----------



## Sasuke (Apr 30, 2011)

I finished Midnight Tides yesterday. It actually turned out to be very good. I think I liked it more than House of Chains by the end. Took a while longer than the others, bar GoTM to have me gripped, though. 

Iron Bars  I wish they would have turned up a little earlier though. Will definitely be buying RoTCG, and I haven't even read anything from Esslemont, yet. Not sure if I want to read NoV or TBH first.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 30, 2011)

Darth said:


> I finished House of Chains. Karsa is a fucking badass at the end of it.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Hounds of Darkness not Shadow. The Deragoth are the Hounds of Shadows Bigger, meaner and more badass older cousins. 

The Letherii are certainly worth the read...the Edur not so much. Trust me you'll know what I mean once you get a good grip on how each society works.



Sasuke said:


> I finished Midnight Tides yesterday. It actually turned out to be very good. I think I liked it more than House of Chains by the end. Took a while longer than the others, bar GoTM to have me gripped, though.
> 
> Iron Bars  I wish they would have turned up a little earlier though. Will definitely be buying RoTCG, and I haven't even read anything from Esslemont, yet. Not sure if I want to read NoV or TBH first.



Night of Knives is actually pretty short and should only really take about a day or two to read. It also takes place before the start of the series.


----------



## Darth (May 5, 2011)

Wiki said:
			
		

> Rumors of a film version of the series have circulated for the past several years. Steven Erikson and Ian Cameron Esslemont originally developed Gardens of the Moon as a film script, apparently a comedy centering on the Phoenix Inn Regulars of the first novel. All copies of this script now seem to have been lost. More recently, a script has been in development entitled Chain of Dogs, which is essentially an adaptation of a major plot strand of the novel Deadhouse Gates. This script is awaiting funding. The writers (who have consulted with Steven Erikson on the project) have declared they hope to fund the film outside of the Hollywood system, but acknowledge the large budget and extensive CGI requirements may make this impossible.



A film adaptation for the Chain of Dogs would be absolutely epic.


----------



## mow (May 5, 2011)

Man, the tears that will be shed in the movie


----------



## Spartacus (May 5, 2011)

*envisions Coltaines epic last stand in my mind*


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 5, 2011)

Coltaine is truly a man of legend


----------



## Spartacus (May 5, 2011)

I still can't quite get my head around the amount of crows were required for his soul, compared to the 12 crows or so required for their most powerful shaman.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 5, 2011)

it was an entire swarm of them, hundreds at the very least

Coltaine is just THAT fucking epic


----------



## Spartacus (May 6, 2011)

Yeah, I remember getting goosebumps while reading that scene. It was a whole swarm of them, enough to black out the sky and making people believe it was clouds at first.

Hell, I'm getting goosebumps now thinking back on it. Coltaine, mah man.


----------



## The Imp (May 10, 2011)

I got _The Crippled God_ from the library and I'm about to start reading it. I thought I would look for summaries for the first 9 books to refresh my memory, but it's pretty difficult to find good ones that go into a bit of depth. Hopefully some of the smaller details will come back to me as I read it.


----------



## Yak (May 25, 2011)

Almost done with Dust of Dreams, one more to go. 

I don't know, DoD has not fit well in my reading flow. I am struggling with it, I did not like that book very much to be honest. Even if that makes me an exception among the readers. It wasn't bad or anything but I felt like other books had felt greater when reading. Going to order The Crippled God soon.


----------



## Mori` (May 25, 2011)

I felt the same Yak tbh, it was one of my less enjoyed books.

I did enjoy The Crippled God significantly more though =)


----------



## Sasuke (May 25, 2011)

I'm struggling to get through Reaper's Gale at the moment. But I think that may have something to do with me marathoning the series without a break. It's definitely my least favourite book so far and I'm about three quarters through.


----------



## Cyphon (May 25, 2011)

I actually gave up on this series to read through _A Song of Ice and Fire_ again. Best decision I have made in awhile since ASoIaF is 100 times better.

I do plan on trying to finish out this series again at some point though.


----------



## Yak (May 26, 2011)

I'll definitely follow through with the Malazan series, I've started it and now I'll finish. Erikson has a very sophisticated and heavy way of writing that I have not seen with other fantasy writers yet (then again, my knowledge is pretty limited), still I enjoyed his books as well as those of Esslemont too.


----------



## Spartacus (May 26, 2011)

I just finished Midnight Tides

I fucking love Bugg, what an ending!

Time to order the next three books...hehehe


----------



## The Imp (May 28, 2011)

Finished tCG. It was a good read. But the battle at the Spire felt much more climactic than the one at the barrow. Also, what was the point of the Icarium plotline?


----------



## Darth (Jun 12, 2011)

Spartacus said:


> I just finished Midnight Tides
> 
> I fucking love Bugg, what an ending!
> 
> Time to order the next three books...hehehe



Bugg is epic. Even more so when you find out that he's not your average lowly manservant. 

Just finished Reaper's Gale, and as usual the ending was fantastic. The Book of the Fallen stands to this date in my top three Fantasy series. Can't wait to start "Toll the Hounds".

Also, found a chronological order of the series, including Esslemont's books. Kinda wish I read it in this order.


Night of Knives (1154)

Blood Follows (c. 1154)

The Lees of Laughter's End (c. 1154)

The Healthy Dead (c. 1158)

Midnight Tides (unknown but from internal evidence it occurs sometime during Gardens of the Moon and possibly up to ten years prior)

Gardens of the Moon (1163)

Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice (1163?64, these two novels occur simultaneously)

"House of Chains"

The Bonehunters (1164?65)

Return of the Crimson Guard (c. 1165, just after The Bonehunters)

Reaper's Gale (c. 1165 or 1166)

Toll the Hounds and Dust of Dreams (takes place simultaneously)

Stoneweilder (estimated to start roughly half way through dust of dreams maybe a little later)

The Crippled God


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 13, 2011)

The author claims that you should read RoTCG after Reaper's Gale and just before TTH, even though chronologically it takes place before Reaper's Gale. Speaking of which I just finished RoTCG, I skipped Night of Knives and didn't know what to expect. I think it's a fairly important read, and enjoyable. Eriskon's far better, but I actually hold it in a higher regard than Reaper's Gale - my least favourite in the series. I'll be checking out his other novels in the series for sure.

Toll the Hounds is great so far, Darujhistan is probably my favourite setting.


----------



## Yak (Jun 17, 2011)

Ordered "The Crippled God" today.  Should arrive in the first half of the coming week.


----------



## neodragzero (Jun 17, 2011)

I have it all. I had it all for many weeks now. It's just finding the perfect time to read The Return of the Crimson Guard, Dust of Dreams, and The Crippled God. My reading list bloody confounds me sometimes.

Yak, your sig is hypnotic with its martial prowess.


----------



## Darth (Jul 15, 2011)

Just finished Toll the Hounds. What happened to Rake made me sad. 

Still DoD started well. So far enjoying it. Kinda wondering what happened to Draconous and everyone else who was in Dragnipur. The bit with 3 squads chasing down fiddler in a tavern was pretty hilarious.


----------



## Sasuke (Jul 15, 2011)

I didn't really enjoy Dust of Dreams (which I finished a couple of days ago) as much as much as the other books, but I guess the obvious reason for that being that it's the first half of the finale and isn't supposed to feel as complete. So I won't bother judging it until after I finish TCG.

Toll the Hounds was great though, particularly the ending. Would have been even better if I wasn't aware about Rake before hand, though.  ~_____~

My personal ranking for the series so far; 
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
Midnight Tides tied with Toll the Hounds
House of Chains
The Bonehunters
Gardens of the Moon
Reaper's Gale


----------



## Nimander (Jul 20, 2011)

Since your visitor messages were disabled, I guess I'll answer your question here.

I chose Nimander as a screenname because he's probably the character in the entire series who I can relate to the most personality-wise.  In my mind at least, we're very alike.  

He's far from being my favorite character, though.


----------



## keiiya (Jul 21, 2011)

So it seems I am not as far ahead as most people (mainly because I got distracted by The Name of the Wind and The Wise Man's Fear) but I am just over halfway through Memories of Ice. I think it is my favourite of the three so far. I did have to go back and reread some parts of Gardens of the Moon to remember some plot points though.

I would also like to say that I did get this book on the Kindle and that was probably a bad idea. They need to come up with a decent, proof-read edition. I had to go back and reread parts as a result just to make sense of them. D<


----------



## Sasuke (Jul 30, 2011)

Two thirds through TCG.

Anybody have a recommendation for my next fantasy series? I absolutely loved this. I haven't read anything else in the genre besides the LOTR series many moons ago. I'm leaning towards either ASOIAF or The Black Company.  How does the latter rate among the more acclaimed series in the genre?


----------



## Yak (Nov 12, 2011)

It is done. I have finished the final volume of the saga.

Even if doing this "unwitnessed", I would like to extend my utmost gratitude to Moridin/Ammanas/Little Finger - Tom, thank you. Thank you so much from all my heart, without you advising me to read this series almost four long years ago, I would perhaps never have learned about Erikson and the Malazan Tale of the Fallen and might have never even touched the books. Not only has that time reading the series been so much fun, been so incredibly touching to the heart, no it has also changed me as a person. That's why my thanks do not only go out to Erikson for this work but especially towards you. Thank you, Tom.


----------



## Fang (Nov 12, 2011)

I still can't get past the start of Midnight Tides

close to two years now


----------



## Sasuke (May 5, 2012)

So, the first book in the Rake prequel trilogy is out in July;



Generic fantasy cover aside, I'm looking forward to it. The plot synopsis sounds promising.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 5, 2012)

I had completely forgotten Rake was getting a Trilogy all to himself...

this reminds I need to pick up Stonewielder or whatever it's called


----------



## Sasuke (May 5, 2012)

Rake trilogy, then Karsa trilogy. 

Stonewielder is a pretty good read, an improvement over his previous books.

The author released a more recent novel back in uh, January I think, dealing with a bunch of the more interesting cast and plot points from the series that were hinted at but never really touched upon. It's pretty much a sequel to Toll the Hounds. He's also releasing another a few months after this Rake book from Erikson. Not a huge fan of his writing style but it's cool seeing some of the characters that didn't get much page time from Erikson but were awesome, like Brood, Kallor and Traveller.


----------



## Shrike (May 6, 2012)

Guys, I am sorry to possibly spam this thread, but even though I have not read this particular series, I just want to ask about fantasy overall. So, if you have patience, please read and answer.

I've been reading fantasy since I was a kid and I read most of the series (I never heard of this one though so I never picked it up, but I shall do so). I am an amateur writer of horror, but plan to try my hand at fantasy. So who better to ask what would be read then you guys. My question is this : what do you want your fantasy to be like? Lots of world building (some people put character development on their priorities list, but some just love how the history unfolds)? Lots of magic or not? How detailed? What about the pace? Creatures?

I have planned a very realistic fantasy novel, maybe a trilogy but not more since I really dislike going beyond that. At first it looked like a work with too many characters and very fast paced plot. It got almost 600 pages, but I scrapped it all. It looked like GRRM a bit too much, so I tossed it. I have now started something a lot smaller in scale at first, and it is quite slower in pace but much better written. The plot sees seven characters as kids in the start, and it lasts for almost a hundred pages. Two of those seven would be main characters, male and female, I didn't want to go for a huge cast like I did before, since, as I mentioned, it reminded me of ASOIAF. The plot twists around the fate of those two mentioned characters and, as mentioned, there is very little magic in the world. There are no knights and ser's, I have tried to be as original as possible. The pacing reminds of classic writers a bit though, since I go into detail. So I wonder, would that bore you? Friends who have read it so far loved it, but I am aiming for a larger audience, so I had to ask you.

Thanks in advance and I plan to read this work as soon as I finish a few other books. Haven't read fantasy for a few years aside from the _Dance with Dragons_.


----------



## The Imp (May 6, 2012)

Characters > Plot > World Building > Magic


----------



## jkingler (May 6, 2012)

^Ditto. Mainly, what I want from my fantasy is something that dares to be different, is unpredictable yet 'believable' (e.g. the events make some sense, given the characters, their motivations, their world), and leaves me satisfied but wanting and wondering more. Those are my usual wants from fiction in general, though.


----------



## Corruption (May 6, 2012)

The Imp said:


> Characters > Plot > World Building > Magic



I agree with this. The plot is what pulls me in at first, but interesting characters keep me reading.


----------



## convict (Jun 18, 2012)

I love the creative world that Erikson brought to life. Really good stuff.


----------



## Sasuke (Aug 17, 2012)

No interest in_ Forge of Darkness_? 

I found it pretty good. The cast is basically a who's who of the awesome ascendants/gods/elder races from the MbotF.  The ending was a little meh, it definitely felt like the start of a series. _Lots_ of questions from the MbotF answered...that end up producing even more.


----------



## KidTony (Aug 17, 2012)

Spike_Shrike said:


> Guys, I am sorry to possibly spam this thread, but even though I have not read this particular series, I just want to ask about fantasy overall. So, if you have patience, please read and answer.
> 
> I've been reading fantasy since I was a kid and I read most of the series (I never heard of this one though so I never picked it up, but I shall do so). I am an amateur writer of horror, but plan to try my hand at fantasy. So who better to ask what would be read then you guys. My question is this : what do you want your fantasy to be like? Lots of world building (some people put character development on their priorities list, but some just love how the history unfolds)? Lots of magic or not? How detailed? What about the pace? Creatures?
> 
> ...




Characters. Plot and everything else mean jack shit without well writen, well developed characters.


----------



## Cyphon (Aug 17, 2012)

I would say for me it is a toss up between characters and.....Overall feel. Not sure exactly what to place it under. Maybe just plot.

For example I have seen The Magicians frequently compared to Harry Potter. I love Harry Potter mainly for the whole feel of it. Makes me feel adventurous and just....Fun. The former on the other hand made magic real world boring. So whatever that is 

Edit: Actually characters would come 2nd or 3rd. Because the First Law books had great characters but I didn't like them much.


----------



## ShipTeaser (Aug 22, 2012)

Sasuke said:


> No interest in_ Forge of Darkness_?
> 
> I found it pretty good. The cast is basically a who's who of the awesome ascendants/gods/elder races from the MbotF.  The ending was a little meh, it definitely felt like the start of a series. _Lots_ of questions from the MbotF answered...that end up producing even more.



It wasn't bad, but so many new similar sounding Tiste to remember really hurt my mind.

To be honest i found the bits with the Jaghut to be the best, but then, i love Jaghut. Plus Lord of Hate is such a boss title


----------



## Nimander (Sep 7, 2012)

Huh.  I never even knew that a new trilogy was starting.  Might have to pick it up one of these days.


----------



## Nimander (Oct 16, 2012)

Just finished reading this late last week.  Reawakened my love for the series all over again (so much so that for the first time ever I'm going to read tMBotF straight through, with no breaks).  

It seems like there's a bit (or a lot) of retconning going on so far.  But it is very interesting to see the origins of many of the characters we came to be introduced to in the original series.


----------



## Nimander (Oct 27, 2012)

> Are you ready, Kilmandaros?’
> ‘They will forge alliances,’ she said. ‘They will all war against us.’
> Anomandaris shrugged. ‘I have nothing better to do today.’



Why I love Rake, in essence.


----------



## neodragzero (Oct 27, 2012)

And...after some serious foot work, I have ended up being Iskaral Pust for Halloween festivities. Talk about some High House Shadow influence...


----------



## Sasuke (Dec 2, 2012)

Anyone read the Esslemont Malazan novels?

They're actually pretty good.


----------



## ShipTeaser (Dec 3, 2012)

Sasuke said:


> Anyone read the Esslemont Malazan novels?
> 
> They're actually pretty good.



Yeah, just finished the new one, Blood and Bone. Has one of my favourite underutilised characters in it, and has an awesome callback line to Memories of Ice *grin*


----------



## Sasuke (Dec 3, 2012)

ShipTeaser said:


> Yeah, just finished the new one, Blood and Bone. Has one of my favourite underutilised characters in it, and has an awesome callback line to Memories of Ice *grin*



Which character? I just finished it too. He always seems to have a great cast of characters in his books. Blood and Bone was his best yet, Himatan is one of the best settings in the Malazan series.

Eh, It's surely 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Kallor?


----------



## ShipTeaser (Dec 4, 2012)

Yeah you got it *grin*


----------



## Luna (Dec 4, 2012)

Is this a good series to try out?


----------



## Sasuke (Dec 5, 2012)

Kazudriel said:


> Is this a good series to try out?



Absolutely.


----------



## Chaos (Feb 13, 2013)

Luna said:


> Is this a good series to try out?



Best I found so far.


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 13, 2013)

Soooo, is there some book out there that will tell me just what the fuck Leoman of the Flails did for the Queen of Dreams?


----------



## Sasuke (Feb 14, 2013)

Err. I want to say yes. I kinda forgot.

He appears pretty prominently in _Stonewielder_ and _Orb, Sceptre, Throne_ (More so the latter, if memory serves, but it starts in the former). But those are ICE novels and not Erikson.  IIRC things are explained there.


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Mar 4, 2013)

Hi, i'm about to buy _Forge of Darkness_, has anyone read it? Is the story still good as the best of the Fallen books ?

Speaking about Esslemont, i've read his works till Stonewielder but i've found them boring. He has an awesome cast of characters but i feel like he is unable to exploit all the hype. Even if i have to admit that Greymane was epic.. maybe i should have more faith on ICE. 

Long life to Erikson, one of the best of the last decade.


----------



## Sasuke (Mar 4, 2013)

FoD is still great, wouldn't rank it up there with the best of the MboTF personally, it very much felt like the start of a trilogy that it is. Dat cast though. Lots of retconning from previously established "fact". Which isn't so bad since these "facts" came from people that wouldn't have known the origins of certain characters/events anyway. It's as well written as the main sequence.


But yeah, you have to read it. Simply because it features pretty much every awesome ascendant/elder character to have appeared in the series.
Draconus 

I'm still anticipating the Karsa trilogy way more than this Rake/Tiste trilogy, though.



Bubi said:


> Speaking about Esslemont, i've read his works till Stonewielder but i've found them boring. He has an awesome cast of characters but i feel like he is unable to exploit all the hype. Even if i have to admit that Greymane was epic.. *maybe i should have more faith on ICE.*



Yeah, you very much shouldn't. He's hit or miss. Mostly miss. I like some parts of his books, and will end up reading his supposed final one at the end of this year, since it serves as an epilogue to the entire series..apparently.

Really doesn't help that  the focal point of his main story is the Crimson Guard, and they turned out beyond boring as fuck At least he managed to salvage Skinner & Cowl somewhat though. The latter is awesome.


Greymane though ;~;


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks, ok i will read it with passion 
I'm curious about the Tiste trilogy because i hope to find some hints about Quick Ben connections with Mother Dark (at least one of his souls has to be half Tiste).
And maybe there will be the fight between Anomander and Draconus for Dragnipur.



Sasuke said:


> I'm still anticipating the Karsa trilogy way more than this Rake/Tiste trilogy, though.



I guess Karsa will stumble another time on Icarium


----------



## Nimander (Mar 10, 2013)

FoD is all of Erikson's style, with none of the massive plot string pileups the main series was known for. I personally found it more streamlined, neater and a very enjoyable read. In fact, it was reading this that spurred me to read the whole of the original straight through, which I'd never done before and which made the story overall much more enjoyable than my first time around. 

Tried reading the first Esselmont book, but just couldn't get through it. Though it's in the same universe, it seemed to lack that flair that just sucked me in to Erikson's books and never let me go. So I dropped it a bit less than halfway through, and haven't read it or any of his subsequent books.


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## Chaos (May 13, 2013)

I finished the series.

Now I have this empty feeling inside me, knowing that I'm done with it.

Damn, maybe I'll just read the whole thing again.


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## mow (May 13, 2013)

That is exactly why I have avoided reading the crippled god. AS stupid as it maysound, every time I finish Dust of dreams, I go back to Gardens and read the series through back to DoD. I've done this 3 times (and nearing my 4th)

 I dont want to read CoD. There is such a sense of finality, and I dont think I'm ready to approach it


----------



## Chaos (May 14, 2013)

Doesn't sound stupid to me, honestly, I perfectly understand your sentiments in that regard.

You should probably at some point push yourself past it, though, or you'll never be able to read another book again 

I wish you good luck.


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## Sasuke (May 20, 2013)

mow said:


> That is exactly why I have avoided reading the crippled god. AS stupid as it maysound, every time I finish Dust of dreams, I go back to Gardens and read the series through back to DoD. I've done this 3 times (and nearing my 4th)
> 
> I dont want to read CoD. There is such a sense of finality, and I dont think I'm ready to approach it



Karsa trilogy comes after the current Tiste trilogy. I'm pretty sure that has to be set after the events of TCG.

 Man up and finish the main sequence


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (May 21, 2013)

mow said:


> I dont want to read CoD. There is such a sense of finality, and I dont think I'm ready to approach it



Only at the end of the main series I realized how much love i had for each one of the Bonehunters. I remember when i hated them for "stealing" the place of the Bridgeburners. 

Tarr, Koryk, Smiles, Widdershins, Corabb Thenu'alas.. so many, everyone awesome in his own. How can Erikson be so fast and good into building characters at the same time.


----------



## martryn (Jun 18, 2013)

I am so sorry for being so late to read these.  Almost through with Memories of Ice.  So much more to go.  Can't wait.  I think this might be the best fantasy I've ever read.


----------



## Nimander (Jun 18, 2013)

Another convert.

You are forgiven, my brother.


----------



## martryn (Jun 18, 2013)

And here's the thing: j was trying to get me to read this back when he made this thread, and I kept putting it off.  What a fucking idiot I am.


----------



## Chaos (Jun 19, 2013)

To me, this is the best fantasy series I've ever read. And I've read a few.

Picking up Forge of Darkness today. Pretty excited


----------



## Nimander (Jun 20, 2013)

FoD is pretty solid. Has the enjoyable rhythm of Erikson's style, without the gigantic clusterfuck of plot lines and sheer number of named characters that MBotF did. Plus if you're a fan of backstories (like I am) you'll definitely like it.


----------



## Chaos (Jun 21, 2013)

Nimander said:


> FoD is pretty solid. Has the enjoyable rhythm of Erikson's style, without the gigantic clusterfuck of plot lines and sheer number of named characters that MBotF did. Plus if you're a fan of backstories (like I am) you'll definitely like it.



They didn't have it, but I'll be back there next week to pick it up.

The clusterfuck of plot lines and multitude of MBotF was one of my favorite things about it, however.

I have no doubt I will greatly enjoy a story by Erikson on Anomander though.


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 21, 2013)

martryn said:


> I am so sorry for being so late to read these.  Almost through with Memories of Ice.  So much more to go.  Can't wait.  I think this might be the best fantasy I've ever read.



I feel like the series peaked at Memories of Ice.

The rest are still great, though.


----------



## martryn (Jun 21, 2013)

> I feel like the series peaked at Memories of Ice.



Most really long series peak around the third or fourth book.  That's been the case in several of the series I've read.


----------



## Cyphon (Jun 21, 2013)

I really want to give this series another chance because I have the first 9 or so books. I think the first time through I got to the beginning of book 5 and dropped it. I might have even asked this before but can someone help me out with how things work after 5.

From what I remember it goes like this:

Book 1 = character set A
Book 2 = character set B
Book 3 = character set A
book 4 = character set B
book 5 = character set C

I think in 3 or 4 there might have been some crossover or whatever. Now here are my problems or whatever.

1. This has to do with the above. I get used to characters and like certain ones and then they don't return for an entire book and I lose sight of why I liked them, what they have done and what their relevance is. Does this continue on after 5 or does everything eventually come together? It was confusing to try and keep up with so many characters and this is coming from someone who has read ASoIaF and Wheel of Time. 

2. Some shit seemed unexplained when we heard about it and never was explained as I continued reading. Does he end up clearing up everything by the last book or are there still loose ends? It is annoying to read things that seem entirely pointless to the story or just have no background to base anything from. 


Anyway, I hope someone can help. I SOOOOO badly want to find interest in these books but I more or less hated them the first time through. It felt more like work than enjoyment.


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Jun 23, 2013)

Cyphon said:


> 1. I get used to characters and like certain ones and then they don't return for an entire book and I lose sight of why I liked them, what they have done and what their relevance is. Does this continue on after 5 or does everything eventually come together?
> 
> 2. Some shit seemed unexplained when we heard about it and never was explained as I continued reading. Does he end up clearing up everything by the last book or are there still loose ends? It is annoying to read things that seem entirely pointless to the story or just have no background to base anything from.



1. Some stuff will come together but not everything. Characters are not on stasis and they dont make predictable bonds like the ones in WoT, they are moving all the time.
This series is fluid and unpredictable, it continuosly jumps from one setting to another. And this is one of its strongest point, to find yourself the harmony into the apparent chaos of the story. Yeah its hard to keep up with so many characters, but i can assure that its worth the trouble.

2. There will be loose ends. A lot of them. But its good because it lets you the freedom to make hypothesis.
For me there are not pointless things, its just about if you like lore stuff and hints.  You have to work your brain to find out informations and collect all the apparent useless pieces in order to resolve some puzzles. You have to find the answers, just like an archeoligist. 
It's just like doing side quests in game series like Myst or The Elder Scrolls (Daggerfall and Morrowind, not Oblivion or Skyrim).

Book 5 is Midnight Tides and it is on another continent with the Tiste Edur and the Letherii empire. The facts are set in a time before book 1, Garden of the Moon. So yeah you will have to start it all over with new characters but they are _amazing_ and the story will be important when it will connect with the rest of the books.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 23, 2013)

martryn said:


> Most really long series peak around the third or fourth book.  That's been the case in several of the series I've read.



My opinion is it peaked at Reaper's Gale.  MoI was nice but it had some baggage that I could have really done without like all the Genabackis books.



> Anyway, I hope someone can help. I SOOOOO badly want to find interest in these books but I more or less hated them the first time through. It felt more like work than enjoyment.


I fucking *loathed* the series when I first got to it. I chucked Memories of Ice across the room once and left it unfinished for years. Then on a lark I picked up the series again and read through Memories of Ice all the way through to the end in a Month long marathon.  It's now my favorite fantasy series. It may seem like work at first but you need to let yourself get invested. Even in a short time frame like I had it was pretty damn hard to keep up with all those characters and subplots. I think a good practice to help you keep up is occasionally review subplots in your head. I broke down subplots and constructed theories as I went along and it help me keep most of the important details.


----------



## martryn (Jun 23, 2013)

The series is certainly one that requires lots of rereads, at least in certain parts.  I wish there was a better wiki or something for it to help clarify some things, but so far nothing I've found is very good.  There's not even any real good fan art for the series.  It's a fucking crime.


----------



## Jαmes (Jun 24, 2013)

do you guys know where i can find pdfs of these books?


----------



## Chaos (Jun 24, 2013)

Jαmes said:


> do you guys know where i can find pdfs of these books?



Afaik, most pdf's are pretty horrible in spelling/scanned quite badly and the like.

If you don't mind that, I could hook you up, probably.


----------



## martryn (Jun 25, 2013)

Just finished Memories of Ice.  Holy fuck.  Didn't see THAT coming.  Erikson can kill off major characters with the best of them.


----------



## mow (Jun 26, 2013)

If you are looking for a site discussing Book of The Fallen, check this site out:
Here

A new and an old reader begin the book and analyze what happens chapter by chapter. I havent checked it yet but it is as indepth as could be it seems


----------



## Chaos (Jun 27, 2013)

mow said:


> If you are looking for a site discussing Book of The Fallen, check this site out:
> Here
> 
> A new and an old reader begin the book and analyze what happens chapter by chapter. I havent checked it yet but it is as indepth as could be it seems



That looks pretty cool. I'll give it a read at some point.


----------



## olaf (Jun 27, 2013)

I'm reading the 8th book and I fucking hate the Kruppe narration of the Darhujistwhatever parts of his book

I can read the philosophical parts (most of the time) without problem, but I kind stomach that much of Kruppe. I found him highly entertaining when he was just one of the characters in previous books, but now I dread those parts of the book


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Jun 27, 2013)

^
Well in that parts Erikson tried for himself a new way of narration. I didnt like that parts too, but i know some friends of mine that loved the experiment.


----------



## olaf (Jun 27, 2013)

tbh it's the first book in the series that I have trouble finishing, the black coral parts are so fucking depressing I'm afraid I'm gonna stop feeling the will to live after reading mroe of them. only part I really do enjoy is Karsa & witch.

I just realised that I manage to read like half of Ender Saga and hlaf of Hunger Games, but I  halfway through the 8th book (and I started it before I started all of the other books)


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 27, 2013)

Chaos said:


> Afaik, most pdf's are pretty horrible in spelling/scanned quite badly and the like.
> 
> If you don't mind that, I could hook you up, probably.



I'm pretty sure the entire series is available in ebook format on Amazon now, so the quality should be fine. I downloaded a pdf a while back to dig up some quotes and it was the same as my paperback word for word.



olaf said:


> tbh it's the first book in the series that I have trouble finishing, the black coral parts are so fucking depressing I'm afraid I'm gonna stop feeling the will to live after reading mroe of them. only part I really do enjoy is Karsa & witch.
> 
> I just realised that I manage to read like half of Ender Saga and hlaf of Hunger Games, but I  halfway through the 8th book (and I started it before I started all of the other books)



reaction to that particular novel seems to be mixed among readers, some find it to be spectacular and others a complete clusterfuck. I fall somewhere in between.


----------



## olaf (Jun 27, 2013)

at least now I know what characters feel when they do talk to Kruppe

my feels go to them


----------



## martryn (Jun 27, 2013)

I'm finishing Ender's Game tonight, actually.  I can't believe I waited so long to finally read it.  My dad talked it up when he first read it back in the early 90's when I was barely in the double digits.


----------



## olaf (Jun 28, 2013)

martryn said:


> I'm finishing Ender's Game tonight, actually.  I can't believe I waited so long to finally read it.  My dad talked it up when he first read it back in the early 90's when I was barely in the double digits.


Ender's Game is so not like any of Malazan book I've read. the text is so streamlined, I read first book in span of 24 hours (next two in the series too).


----------



## martryn (Jun 29, 2013)

> nder's Game is so not like any of Malazan book I've read. the text is so streamlined, I read first book in span of 24 hours (next two in the series too).



Yeah, I was wondering how common that would be.  I finished the first Ender's book in two days, and I'm 1/3 of the way through the second one already, and I started this morning.  Those things are so small, with such large text.  But still, a compelling story so far.

Read the first 4 books of the Ender's Saga, then I'm going to double-check and make sure the new Stephen R. Donaldson book isn't out yet, then I'll probably read the third book in the Dark Tower series before picking up another Murakami.  Then I'll get back to Malazan.  So much to read! 

If you notice, Stephen R. Donaldson usually gives a blurb on the cover of these Malazan books.  If you haven't yet read Donaldson, I'd highly recommend him.  His Gap Cycle books are some of the best sci-fi I've ever read, and I still believe that the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant rank in the top 3 greatest fantasy novels ever.


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## olaf (Jun 29, 2013)

I've read first 3 books of the ender series, and I have to say that somehow I'm not so eaher to read the 4th one. the mysticism of it all just got bit too much (then I've read that Scott Card is a Mormon and his beliefs are implemented in the mystical aspect of those books...)

I've heard that Shadow Ender series is more in tone with the first book so maybe I'll check it out later

as for what to read when I finish malazan cycle, I'm contemplating checking out the books about those 2 necromancers that showed up during siege of Pale (they were fun, so I hope their books will too)

I also plan to finish Hunger Games series, Wallander books (read 3 but took break now, because those books can be so depressing especialy when weather outside is so dull and gray)


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## martryn (Jun 29, 2013)

> as for what to read when I finish malazan cycle, I'm contemplating checking out the books about those 2 necromancers that showed up during siege of Pale (they were fun, so I hope their books will too)



My wife actually mentioned those books.  She recently rolled up a Pathfinder Necromancer for our Monday night game based off of Korbal Broach.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 2, 2013)

olaf said:


> tbh it's the first book in the series that I have trouble finishing, the black coral parts are so fucking depressing I'm afraid I'm gonna stop feeling the will to live after reading mroe of them. only part I really do enjoy is Karsa & witch.



out of curiosity, are you talking about the segments with the Priestess, Seerdomin, and Durav?

I remember their whole deal with the Saemankelyk and Dying God cult being pretty heavy


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## Chaos (Jul 24, 2013)

Picked up Forge of Darkness.

Very stoked. Anomander was always one of my favorites and the book looks epic.


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## ShipTeaser (Jul 27, 2013)

Chaos said:


> Picked up Forge of Darkness.
> 
> Very stoked. Anomander was always one of my favorites and the book looks epic.



it's good, just be prepared for tons of Tiste whose names all sound the same *grin*


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## martryn (May 17, 2014)

Is there a comprehensive Malazan wiki?  I'm trying to pick up and read House of Chains, but I want to go back and catch up on some of the things from Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice, but I can't find good summaries.  I am slowly getting through the re-read of the Fallen: 

Here

...but it's slow going.


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## Sasuke (Jun 4, 2014)

Nope. That's as in depth as you'll get, I know there are a couple of wiki's but they're pretty bare.

Kinda disappointed this series isn't more popular around here 

I believe the 'final' (chronologically, at least) entry into the series is being released this month or next, even though it's by the comparatively awful (I still find his books entertaining) Esslemont, it should still be worth checking out to see the climax for a bunch of great characters. Like Kallor. Plus we'll finally get to see all the hype (and inevitably be disappointed) surrounding things mentioned way back in Memories of Ice (the best in the series )


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## jkingler (Jun 4, 2014)

It's not more popular (in general) because it is an investment. You have to engage these books, try to keep the names and subplots straight, and either brush up what you've forgotten or have a good memory to maximize your enjoyment of the series. This is not fun, easy fantasy.


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## Yak (Jun 4, 2014)

I just picked up Gardens of the Moon for a second read yesterday. If I manage to hold up, I will re-read the entire series. There's a hunger.


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## martryn (Jun 4, 2014)

Man, I hope Memories of Ice isn't the best book in the series.  Deadhouse Gates was fantastic.  The Chain of Dogs stuff was so entertaining, and even though I didn't really care for the Felisin (Fellisin, Fellisen, Felessin, ...?) storyline, I did enjoy the setting and characters around her.

Just over halfway through House of Chains and I decided I'm just going to power through the rest of the series before I read anything else.  I don't want to forget important details.



> I just picked up Gardens of the Moon for a second read yesterday. If I manage to hold up, I will re-read the entire series. There's a hunger.



You won't be disappointed if you make it into the meat of Deadhouse Gates.


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## Yak (Jun 4, 2014)

martryn said:


> Man, I hope Memories of Ice isn't the best book in the series.  Deadhouse Gates was fantastic.  The Chain of Dogs stuff was so entertaining, and even though I didn't really care for the Felisin (Fellisin, Fellisen, Felessin, ...?) storyline, I did enjoy the setting and characters around her.
> 
> Just over halfway through House of Chains and I decided I'm just going to power through the rest of the series before I read anything else.  I don't want to forget important details.
> 
> ...



In case my post didn't make it so clear earlier, I had already finished all those books years ago. I just couldn't touch fantasy novels with a rather dark tone for quite a while after the Malazan series.

Anyone who is an immersive reader and somewhat predisposed to melancholy or depression, like me, will know what I mean when I say: this series gets to you. It can really drag you down. There are scenes... no, sometimes entire books that just make you wanna weep and off yourself because the lifes of the characters or the general world setting is so fucking brutal, dark and depressing that you can't stand it. 

But hell if it isn't written super awesomely. Still one of the best series around, ever.


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Jun 4, 2014)

Yak said:


> I just picked up Gardens of the Moon for a second read yesterday. If I manage to hold up, I will re-read the entire series. There's a hunger.



I tried a re-read too. It was amazing till Reaper's Gale, but i sadly failed with Toll the Hounds. That book is heavy. 
I have to say that the Bonehunters was much better as a re-read. I guess because i was more affectionate with Fiddler,Gesler, Balm and Hellian squads.


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## Yak (Jun 4, 2014)

Bubyrd Ratcatcher said:


> I tried a re-read too. It was amazing till Reaper's Gale, but i sadly failed with Toll the Hounds.
> I have to say that the Bonehunters was much better as a re-read. I guess because i was more affectionate with Fiddler,Gesler, Balm and Hellian squads.



To me, those blokes have always been the backbone of this series. I enjoy every single chapter with them. Fuck the big powerful characters and their world-shattering actions and events. The 'ordinary' footsoldiers and sappers are what make this series so bloody awesome.


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Jun 4, 2014)

Yak said:


> To me, those blokes have always been the backbone of this series. I enjoy every single chapter with them. Fuck the big powerful characters and their world-shattering actions and events. The 'ordinary' footsoldiers and sappers are what make this series so bloody awesome.



^ Blokes like the Stormy shock team of heavies: Uru Hela,Shortnose, Mayfly and Flashwit 

Or the "princess" Smiles with her jabs at Koryk


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## martryn (Jun 4, 2014)

Man, those characters are just getting introduced in Book 4.  I'm excited that we're staying with them far into the future.


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## Nimander (Jun 24, 2014)

I don't think I can heap more praise on this series than I already have. I kinda envy those of you getting to read it all not just for the first time, but with the chance to read all ten back-to-back without the year long (at least) waits between releases those of us who discovered it earlier had to deal with. If ever there were a series that honestly is just easier to all contain and understand with one solid readthrough, it's this series.

But overall this is easily one of my favorite fantasy works of all times. Extremely well-written, with a host or enjoyable and memorable characters. It's very well balanced between the characters (their interactions, histories, etc.) and the setting itself. Most fantasy novels/series have one outshining the other, or even worse, carrying a story you'd honestly otherwise just drop if not for the fact that the author is so good at that one aspect that it's worth at least seeing how it ends. I have a love/hate relationship with stories that hold me hostage like that. But I digress...

This is good stuff. It's a journey you'll love, at times hate and overall just enjoy. I've met very few avid fantasy readers that didn't enjoy this to some degree.


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## martryn (Jun 24, 2014)

Book 5, so far, I have no fucking clue what the fuck is going on.  What's the difference between holds and warrens?  Or holds and houses?  

I'm having trouble figuring out Lethar in general, and Trull seems like a different character between the 4th book and the 5th book.  Radically different.


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## Yak (Jun 24, 2014)

I'd have to re-read some books again, my memory is fuzzy at best but I believe that the Warrens were the more refined, filtered and controlled paths of magic, holds I believe to be more ancient, raw and unfiltered forces of nature.

Unless I'm confusing things right now.


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## martryn (Jun 24, 2014)

I mean, that makes sense.  I just read the part where Brys goes to talk to Mael by falling into the holds or something, and I'm starting to get confused again.  Elder gods and ascendents, etc.  I'm trying to make sense of it.  I'm sure it'll all come together again eventually.  I don't know if I'll ever have time to do another massive re-read of a series, especially one as large as Malazan, but I bet it'd be a fantastic read the second time through when you've got a better understanding of things.


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## Yak (Jun 24, 2014)

martryn said:


> I mean, that makes sense.  I just read the part where Brys goes to talk to Mael by falling into the holds or something, and I'm starting to get confused again.  Elder gods and ascendents, etc.  I'm trying to make sense of it.  I'm sure it'll all come together again eventually.  I don't know if I'll ever have time to do another massive re-read of a series, especially one as large as Malazan, but I bet it'd be a fantastic read the second time through when you've got a better understanding of things.



To be frank, not everything comes together in the main series of books. Some stuff is pretty much sidelined for side story books, other stuff isn't really covered for at all, iirc. I can't admit to having understood everything that happened in the series to the end, either. Some of it is pretty complex and I'm not sure even Erikson has every loose end covered. Some inconsistencies seem to exist with the general timeline, too.

Overall that doesn't diminish the reading experience at all, though. You are heading down a road that just keeps getting more awesome by the book.


As for the deal with the warrens and the holds, think of the holds of the more primal grandfathers of the warrens. They were there first, they didn't have much finesse but packed a lot of power and some parts of the Malazan-world still uses their primal energies where warrens don't exist yet.


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## martryn (Jun 24, 2014)

Fiddler's age.  In the first book you get the impression that he's a teenager when he meets Ganoes Paran for the first time.  In the later books, which take place less than a decade later, it seems to imply that Fiddler is much older.


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## Yak (Jun 24, 2014)

martryn said:


> Fiddler's age.  In the first book you get the impression that he's a teenager when he meets Ganoes Paran for the first time.  In the later books, which take place less than a decade later, it seems to imply that Fiddler is much older.



Well, when he first meets Paran, Ganoes is still a kid. Fiddler is someone either in his teens still or at least at the very end of it. Next meeting should be something like fifteen to twenty years later, I think. So Fiddler would at least be in his mid-thirties. While the story runs its course, some years pass as well. 

I think by the time he meets his demise he should be something in his early fourties or so?


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## martryn (Jun 24, 2014)

> Well, when he first meets Paran, Ganoes is still a kid. Fiddler is someone either in his teens still or at least at the very end of it. Next meeting should be something like fifteen to twenty years later, I think. So Fiddler would at least be in his mid-thirties. While the story runs its course, some years pass as well.



Not going by the timeline and dates given in the books.  We can place Ganoes age at end of the Siege of Pale at around 21ish, and Fiddler is supposed to be only a few years older, maybe five or six, a decade at most.  So if he's in his early 30's then, why is he described as being so much older during the events in Raraku when he's known as Strings?  I'm wondering if this is a mistake that Erikson overlooked, or if maybe the horrific events the Bridgeburners have been through aged Fiddler prematurely. 



> I think by the time he meets his demise he should be something in his early fourties or so?



Spoiler alert.  Geez.  Book five.


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## Yak (Jun 24, 2014)

martryn said:


> Not going by the timeline and dates given in the books.  We can place Ganoes age at end of the Siege of Pale at around 21ish, and Fiddler is supposed to be only a few years older, maybe five or six, a decade at most.  So if he's in his early 30's then, why is he described as being so much older during the events in Raraku when he's known as Strings?  I'm wondering if this is a mistake that Erikson overlooked, or if maybe the horrific events the Bridgeburners have been through aged Fiddler prematurely.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler alert.  Geez.  Book five.




Sorry about that. Didn't want to neither spoil nor mislead you. I mistook him for a different character there. Forget what I just said, it has no merrit. I was basically lying unintentionally. No joke. Just... sorry. Its been ages. I need to read this shit again. 



Anyway, its either a mistake on Erikson's side or he kinda wants to express it metaphorically that Fiddler just feels horribly old already with the kind of shit the likes of him are seeing.


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## martryn (Jun 24, 2014)

> I need to read this shit again.



Yes, do it.  I need to talk to someone about this shit.  

Sappers are fucking awesome.  I might try to make a Pathfinder sapper, if I can figure out the best way to do it.  Maybe one of those trap setting ranger archetypes.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 24, 2014)

Bubyrd Ratcatcher said:


> I have to say that the Bonehunters was much better as a re-read. I guess because i was more affectionate with Fiddler,Gesler, Balm and Hellian squads.



in my opinion, Bonehunters has one of the best climaxes in the main series 

it's been ages since I've read anything Malazan related, I'll have to reread sometime as well


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## martryn (Jun 24, 2014)

I can't wait until I get to Bonehunters.  I'm liking the stuff happening in Lether, but I don't much care for the Tiste Edur plotline so far.


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## Fang (Jun 25, 2014)

Memories of Ice and DeadHouse Gates still best in my eyes


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## Torpedo Titz (Aug 14, 2014)

Finally got around to Memories of Ice. I like how Erikson can balance Ascendants and mortal characters without one group overshadowing the other.


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## kazuri (Aug 14, 2014)

I just preordered Brent Weeks new book and to get free shipping I decided to start this series.

Always hear good stuff about it, can't wait!


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## Lucaniel (Aug 5, 2015)

i just finished midnight tides and i enjoyed it the most of any book so far

some things which i think contributed to this were:

1. erikson's willingness to add sufficient background throughout (i.e. the backstories of shurq ellale or gerun eberict) rather than withhold just enough information to make it all a bit confusing and irritating (which is what i feel he mostly did in the last four books)

2. the setting being "new" and having less history to catch up in the sense of immediately relevant backstory i.e. any novel mostly about the malazan empire brings a bunch of characters with decades of relevant backstory (all the bridgeburners), most of which is just hinted at, so you never know quite where you stand

3. erikson tightening the plot so all the strands came together rather than meandering randomly i.e. trull and onrack's meandering journey in house of chains which ended in the wet fart of them just settling down to defend the first throne against potential attackers who never actually arrived, and trull getting his seed stolen by a random eres witch (who i now figure must have been eres'al?)

anyhow, really good book. though it, in combination with the trull plotline in house of chains which was really irrelevant to everything else and pointless and annoying, made me wonder: why the hell did erikson introduce trull one book prior to the book where his story would actually be told? 

i know he did it with karsa, and two books prior for him, but karsa was just "the toblakai" in deadhouse gates. trull's interactions with onrack often touched on his shorning and his regrets and so forth, and to fully understand them, we needed to know what had happened in midnight tides...but we didn't. so it was just confusing


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