# What if Oda wrote Naruto?



## La buse (Feb 21, 2013)

How do you think it would be?


----------



## James Bond (Feb 21, 2013)

Very long, it would be.


----------



## ♠God♠ (Feb 21, 2013)

It would be bad. Just because a mangaka has a succesful manga, does not mean he can make every manga a god tier level.


----------



## Illairen (Feb 21, 2013)

One positive thing is, side characters like the konoha 12 would get a better developement. People like Lee or Neji wouldn`t be much weaker than Naruto and Sasuke. 
Naruto and Sasuke would be high tiers now but not top tiers. 

On the other hand the art would be worse I think. Many characters would look weird.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Feb 21, 2013)

Nardo would go saving SASUUUKKE on filler arc islands with retard clowns as villains.


----------



## Jay. (Feb 21, 2013)

It wouldn't exist.


Oda doesn't write bullshit like that.


Naruto would be One Piece


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Feb 21, 2013)

Everything in the panels would be so crammed together that it would be hard to fully make out what is going on.


----------



## Nitharad (Feb 21, 2013)

Fun question !

So :

The positive

- The Story would actually have some thought behind them with key-points already planned way ahead of time and actually forshadowing stuff instead of making stuff up as the story moves along.
- Every single new character that has a respectable level of power will be introduced like they are the strongest being in the entire universe. (Man I remember when I was a child and thought Smoker was the strongest DF User ever ...)
- Power inflation wouldn't be so ridiculous.
- You would need up to 10 minutes to read a single chapter because SO MUCH TEXT xD
- Jutsus would actually be used in a very smart and unexpected way. (I just love how Oda gives some characters pretty mundane or apperantly weak abilities and then giving them awesome uses, Luffy being the prime example, being a "rubber man" isn't new or special in the world of fiction, but all his Gears are amazing expansions on this basic ability)
- The limitation of Jutsus are an interesting part of the Jutsu itself. (I love how Oda gives limits to abilities only to show how creative he is by working around them in a smart way)
- Characters actually train more realisticly and don't master new Jutsus in just a few days or get powerup after powerup.
- The time skip would've actually changed something.

The negative

- Lots and lots and lots of fanservice, funny faces, and unfunny annoying running gags for every main character that makes Pokemon look tame.
- Characters would make up new techniques on the spot, even though they aren't really new. (Like Sanji naming every kick or Luffy calling all his attacks different things even though most of them are basicly the same)
- NOBODY DIES EVER, meaning all of Akatsuki would still be alive. (Ace and Whitebeard being the exception that proves the rule)


----------



## Superstars (Feb 21, 2013)

But Oda doesn't. It's not wise to compare.


----------



## Jay. (Feb 21, 2013)

> NOBODY DIES EVER



Sup?


----------



## Morgan (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, I know there would be no plot holes, no two characters would look the same, it would have more comedy, it would be far more unpredictable and one chapter would feel like three chapters. Also, Narutoverse would be bigger.


----------



## emili (Feb 21, 2013)

Same thread was locked in the Bleach section so you transferred it here? 

Well then, character design will be out of proportion


----------



## Sora (Feb 21, 2013)

Sakura's breasts would be small at first then as the manga develops so do they


----------



## Usurattebayo (Feb 21, 2013)

Naruto would decrease in age, while all the rest got older. And Sakura's boobs would be huge. Also, no couples.

Overall I think that the story would be better in the sense of better thought out, not as much asspulling, and not so much focus on Naruto and Sasuke only, therefore the rest of the K11 would shine too. That would make Naruto pretty much perfect (at least to me).
On the bad side, the art would suck. Everyone would look like monkeys, and people's ages would decrease as time went by. Also, no canon based shipping  I love shipping </3

EDIT:

On the bright side, too, the women would actually be powerful, and not just cast aside and have their abilities completely ignored...


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 21, 2013)

Nitharad said:


> Fun question !
> 
> So :
> 
> ...



 Fan service? 

There is not much fan service in one piece, definitely not lots, and lots, and lots.

Thats fairy tail lvl.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 21, 2013)

Arlong was a racist asshole because of persecution.

Hody listens to him, and becomes racist for no reason.

Because racism is perpetuated by the older generation.

Leading Hody to commit murder and abuse drugs.

Meanwhile Obito declares a war over his kindergarten crush.

I think it's pretty obvious who the better mangaka is.

Cleary Oda's characterization just can't match up to Kishimoto's.


----------



## αce (Feb 21, 2013)

Dunno. It'd be long and some weeks might feel pointless but the ending of the arcs would be amazing. Not to mention that side characters would get a lot of development. We'd also have villains that are evil for the sake of being evil

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it'd be much better for the simple fact that One Piece is far superior to Naruto.


Although I'm sure someone is gonna come and make a witty reply about me wanking One Piece.

Although Oda is much more sexist than Kishimoto will ever be. Not power wise, since he has Hancock and Big Mom. But just in general.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Feb 21, 2013)

The Uchihas wouldn't have plot relevance.


----------



## αce (Feb 21, 2013)

> The Uchihas wouldn't have plot relevance.



Well, assuming the plot structure was the same, there's no way they _can't_ be relevant considering the Rikudou. They'd have less panel time most likely but they'd still be around.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 21, 2013)

αce said:


> Dunno. It'd be long and some weeks might feel pointless but the ending of the arcs would be amazing. Not to mention that side characters would get a lot of development. *We'd also have villains that are evil for the sake of being evil*
> 
> I'm just gonna go ahead and say it'd be much better for the simple fact that One Piece is far superior to Naruto.
> 
> ...



Who is that?


----------



## Plague (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah, the characters would definately look more feral and true to their gimmicks (like Kiba being more dog-like, Shino more bug-like, and Tenten more.....weapony lol)

There'd be more unfunny gags and perversion believe it or not hahaha! Sasuke would be funnier though, even when he's "being serious".

On second thought, all Uchiha would be like that. 

Orochimaru would rely on a gimmick more, Hinata would be a little creepier, Sakura would probably be meaner (for comedic purposes of course), and Kakashi would be more unpredictable. 

I think Pein and the other more human looking Akatsuki would NOT be human at all. They would look even MORE like freaks  and wierdos XDDD

Naruto would be more carefree, and like someone stated earlier, Lee and Neji wouldn't be too far behind him and Sasuke. 

Gaara would probably look more like he's made of sand, constantly, or have it poor from his eyes and mouth somehow. 

Tsunade would be thicker or skinnier, but her tits would stay the same. Shizune would be more insecure and plainer looking XDDD


----------



## αce (Feb 21, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Who is that?




What in One Piece?
Blackbeard, Crocodile, Caesar, Enel, Doflamingo
I'm probably missing some. The only villain with anything close to a sob story is Moria.


----------



## LB04 (Feb 21, 2013)

It just wouldn't be Naruto anymore. The name would be the same but the plot would probably take a whole different way. And nevermind the characters. 

Kishi started out with a good load of seriousness and blood and death. A bit of fun here and there but that was a bit more on the sideline. 
Oda started with fun and adventure and has only very, very, very few deaths in his manga. Most of them in flash backs. There are some serious themes in Oda's manga but foremost it's fun and adventure like. And I think he has found a good mix in that.

That is two totally different types of starting a story, Naruto wouldn't be Naruto if Oda wrote it just like One Piece wouldn't be One Piece if Kishi wrote it. 

Both Oda and Kishi have strong points like Kishi does not draw every female like a hour glas or an ugly monster. Oda is better with his plot and story. 

But yeah, leave Naruto as it is. It could have been better but I'm still reading it. So it's not like it's horrible.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 21, 2013)

αce said:


> What in One Piece?
> Blackbeard, Crocodile, Caesar, Enel, Doflamingo
> I'm probably missing some. The only villain with anything close to a sob story is Moria.





> Blackbeard



Rule him out for now until he gets further developed. We haven't seen his true intentions.



> Caesar


I'm pretty sure he was doing everything he did on Punk Hazard because he felt butthurt that Vegapunk is better than him. 

In fact he is the one being used.



> Enel


He never had a back story, so we don't know. We will have to wait until he comes back into the story.



> Doflamingo


I don't think he is evil, for now at least.



> Crocodile


You've got me here.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Feb 21, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Rule him out for now until he gets further developed. We haven't seen his true intentions.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure he was doing everything he did on Punk Hazard because he felt butthurt that Vegapunk is better than him.
> ...



are you serious? dofla isn't evil? have you been reading the last couple OP chapters?


----------



## Arya Stark (Feb 21, 2013)

They'd go on missions more.
I actually missed those stuff.That's mainly why I'm liking OP so far.


----------



## Orochibuto (Feb 21, 2013)

The quality good be better, on the the other hand the power levels would be shit, with RS beign at most what Bijuu Mode Naruto is now.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 21, 2013)

Shock Therapy said:


> are you serious? dofla isn't evil? have you been reading the last couple OP chapters?



I'll take that back. He is evil.


----------



## Naruto (Feb 21, 2013)

For one, the manga would be much trippier.

I love One Piece, but Oda is on some serious acid.

*Warning: *Please keep One Piece spoilers in tags.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Feb 21, 2013)

αce said:


> Well, assuming the plot structure was the same, there's no way they _can't_ be relevant considering the Rikudou. They'd have less panel time most likely but they'd still be around.



Yeah...
Naruto would be an actual Main character.


----------



## Lord Stark (Feb 21, 2013)

The Sandaime Hokage would be introduced as the strongest shinobi in the world and stay that way.  
The Kages would be equal in power (Hashirama would be~Shodai Rakiage, Kazekage, ect.)
Akatsuki would be an ancient organization likely tied with the founding of the current Shinobi system.  
Each of the 5 Kage would be descendant from the Rikudou Sennin.  Orochimaru would be the strongest of the Akatsuki and the leader.  Tsunade would actually be as strong as Jiraiya...will elaborate later.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 21, 2013)

Kishi took the wrong road when he gave Sasuke to much relevance, which caused him to neglect Naruto. Which also led to him creating the Child of Prophecy BS to give Naruto plot relevance again.

That one move destroyed the manga.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Feb 21, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Kishi took the wrong road when* he gave Sasuke to much relevance, which caused him to neglect Naruto. *Which also led to him creating the Child of Prophecy BS to give Naruto plot relevance again.
> 
> That one move destroyed the manga.



That's the best thing Kishi did, imo.
The Uchihas generate $$$$
Look at Madara, everyone is on his dick.
People are buying the new Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm game because Madara* is in it*

Besides the Uchihas have a rich history, thanks to Kishimoto and his editors.


----------



## Impact (Feb 21, 2013)

Lord Stark said:


> The Sandaime Hokage would be introduced as the strongest shinobi in the world and stay that way.
> The Kages would be equal in power (Hashirama would be~Shodai Rakiage, Kazekage, ect.)
> *Akatsuki would be an ancient organization likely tied with the founding of the current Shinobi system. *
> Each of the 5 Kage would be descendant from the Rikudou Sennin.  Orochimaru would be the strongest of the Akatsuki and the leader.  Tsunade would actually be as strong as Jiraiya...will elaborate later.



The bolded would have been fucking awesome


----------



## Revolution (Feb 21, 2013)

World government = fuedal lords and main Village leaders

Sasuke an Itachi = Nico Robin

Rock Lee = Luffy


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 21, 2013)

Pathos Grim said:


> That's the best thing Kishi did, imo.
> The Uchihas generate $$$$
> Look at Madara, everyone is on his dick.
> People are buying the new Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm game because Madara* is in it*
> ...



No they don't.

Madara is the only good Uchiha. The rest are terrible.


----------



## Magician (Feb 21, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> No they don't.
> 
> Madara is the only good Uchiha. The rest are terrible.



No truer words have been said in this post


----------



## EndlessStrategy (Feb 21, 2013)

Usurattebayo said:


> On the bright side, too, the women would actually be powerful, and not just cast aside and have their abilities completely ignored...


I think Oda and Kishi are actually pretty even in that regard. On one hand, Oda has more powerful females, and females get more screentime in general. On the other, most of them are only strong by nature of their devil fruits, and of the two female crew members, one of them hasn't done anything of importance since joining. Oda also has the tendency to make all females exempt from major injury unless fighting another woman or looks like an ogre.

As for how Naruto would be with Oda as the author...it would be way too different for me to say.


----------



## Miiami (Feb 21, 2013)

He would make a show that is actually about ninjas. Females would actually get to fight, Sasuke wouldn't be jealous gay pussy (_I still love him though_), of course it would have it's own minuses, such as art style.


----------



## Shinryu (Feb 21, 2013)

Pathos Grim said:


> That's the best thing Kishi did, imo.
> The Uchihas generate $$$$
> Look at Madara, everyone is on his dick.
> People are buying the new Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm game because Madara* is in it*
> ...



Thats the freaking point ITS ALL ABOUT THE FUCKING UCHIHAS AND NOT THE FREAKING NINJA WORLD JUST THE FUCKING UCHIHAS A BUNCH OF MENTAL CASES WITH HAX EYES.

Oda details the entire OP world in his manga gives every character a backstory and is a plain better plot write to begin with


None of P2 arcs had relevance to the ninja world they were all FUCKING UCHIHA


This manga should be called: Chronicles of the Uchiha not Naruto it makes more sense


----------



## ovanz (Feb 21, 2013)

Oda Nobunaga? probably very epic and feudal.


----------



## IchLiebe (Feb 21, 2013)

Kishimoto has his editors tell him what to do when he doesn't want to do it. That will ruin shit. I don't think Oda has that problem. That's really the only problem with Naruto.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Feb 21, 2013)

it wouldnt be as good.

not baitin', just my opinion.


----------



## PureWIN (Feb 21, 2013)

The story would revolve around missions instead of random super villains just appearing and causing characters to angst.

Character development x1000.


----------



## Rokudaime (Feb 21, 2013)

Naruto chapter 600+ will have same personality as Naruto chapter 1.


----------



## Tony Lou (Feb 22, 2013)

The rookies wouldn't be weak and irrelevant. The characters actually would be treated fairly.


----------



## Rikudou No Sennin (Feb 22, 2013)

It would make Naruto # 1 manga in Japan.


----------



## Magician (Feb 22, 2013)

Rikudou No Sennin said:


> It would make Naruto # 1 manga in Japan.



Blasphemy


----------



## Tir (Feb 22, 2013)

Naruto would become even more terrible. Just like Kishimoto, Oda is lacking in character development.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Feb 22, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> No they don't.
> 
> Madara is the only good Uchiha. The rest are terrible.



You're just some bandwagoner. 

Hahaha you don't understand the Uchihas as well as Kishimoto intended.
Perhaps, I can teach a few lessons my friend...


----------



## Magician (Feb 22, 2013)

Tir said:


> Naruto would become even more terrible. Just like Kishimoto, *Oda is lacking in character development.*



 You smoking?


----------



## Trollism (Feb 22, 2013)

Then *THIS* wouldnt have happened



Also side characters may actually do something besides cheer, die 
*Spoiler*: __ 



and come back to life


----------



## Stannis (Feb 22, 2013)

Uchihas will be a clan of homosexuals. 

Oh wait..


----------



## Corporal (Feb 22, 2013)

Scattering of ninja villages. Naruto sets out from the ninja village with friends never to return and slowly builds a ninja team from each village as an overarching plot that will never be resolved slowly emerges. Shinobi are less versatile and use more cartoony and niche powers(some characters wouldn't really change). Less introspective depression, more outward goofiness typical of the beginning, and characters wouldn't be dropped as consistently.

Samurai would be the law enforcement set on halting shinobi activity and Mifune would be the big bad/military big bad with his right hand men primarily encountering Naruto and co.



Cheeky said:


> Arlong was a racist asshole because of persecution.
> 
> Hody listens to him, and becomes racist for no reason.
> 
> ...


Madara believed in the Eye of The Moon Plan because of the conflicts he faced.

Obito is slowly convinced by him for a multitude of reasons, culminating at the point where he witnesses his friend killing the one he asked him to protect upon his "death".

As ideals, good or bad, may be passed on from one generation to the next.

Leading Obito to follow Madara's plans in order to build a world free of suffering.

Meanwhile Hody is a fish that doesn't like non-fish because another fish told him not to.

wow look i can frame situations without regards to context too(and apparently without paragraphs because who needs those)


----------



## BatoKusanagi (Feb 22, 2013)

There would be something that could counter the sharingan


----------



## Humite Juubi (Feb 22, 2013)

Corporal said:


> ...
> 
> 
> Madara believed in the Eye of The Moon Plan because of the conflicts he faced.
> ...



When did that happen?


----------



## Corporal (Feb 22, 2013)

Humite Juubi said:


> When did that happen?


Reread the chapters. Madara is getting to him before he sees Rin die. Though multitude is an exaggeration and the Rin reasoning is still somewhat simplistic, that was all a part of the point about framing things.


----------



## Humite Juubi (Feb 22, 2013)

Corporal said:


> Reread the chapters. Madara is getting to him before he sees Rin die. Though multitude is an exaggeration and the Rin reasoning is still somewhat simplistic, that was all a part of the point about framing things.



I did.I still cant find what you mean. 

All i read is from Thanks but im not interested in your world domination plans to huuuh rin is dead lets replace this world with an illusion and kill as many people on the way as possible including my own in one chapter. 

I think i have to agree with yahiko: obito sucks.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 22, 2013)

Humite Juubi said:


> I did.I still cant find what you mean.
> 
> All i read is from Thanks but im not interested in your world domination plans to huuuh rin is dead lets replace this world with an illusion and kill as many people on the way as possible including my own in one chapter.
> 
> I think i have to agree with yahiko: obito sucks.


Okay, I can see how you'd of read that. I saw the severe injuries he received as a defining part as well, and Madara's words though rejected came back after the death pained him further.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 22, 2013)

The story would be a hell of a lot better.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 22, 2013)

Corporal said:


> Madara believed in the Eye of The Moon Plan because of the conflicts he faced.
> 
> Obito is slowly convinced by him for a multitude of reasons, culminating at the point where he witnesses his friend killing the one he asked him to protect upon his "death".
> 
> ...



Yeah, I guess using a projector on the moon to hypontise everybody to achieve world peace is a lot more relatable than the evils of bigotry and what it causes people to do to each other and themselves. My bad.


----------



## Revolution (Feb 22, 2013)

If Oda wrote Naruto, there would be no question that Sasuke ought to avenge his clan and give them justice.    None of this "genocide for the greater good" bullshit, as the cover up reveal would clearly show who the true villain is: Konoha.


----------



## Palpatine (Feb 22, 2013)

The character's motivations would be overall more believable.


----------



## Totsuka Blitz (Feb 22, 2013)

If Oda wrote this manga, then we would probably still be in part 1 with all back stories of rookies explored. Sakura might suck less, Sasuke might be less EMO and Naruto might be more gluttonous. I like how Part 2 made the manga a little more adult and darker and Oda might have made Naruto a little more hilarious and little less serious.


----------



## Lurko (Feb 22, 2013)

La buse said:


> How do you think it would be?



What if kishi wrote one piece, I just don't care.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 23, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> Yeah, I guess using a projector on the moon to hypontise everybody to achieve world peace is a lot more relatable than the evils of bigotry and what it causes people to do to each other and themselves. My bad.


Yeah, I guess mermen holding grudges and becoming large muscley masses after taking lots of pseudo-scientific drugs is a lot more relatable than the world of total equality and solidarity many have wished for in their darkest hours and the destructive path it ultimately leads to and how two men each wishing for a better world can go at each other's throats over disagreement on how to get there(or whatever simplistic and mushy moral of the day you want to insert here). My bad.

Also apparently fantasy shouldn't be _too_ fantastic, that's just unrealistic. Emotional relatability apparently gets cut out of the picture after the world it's placed in performs an unnatural feat, which would be all the time.


----------



## Owl (Feb 23, 2013)

Well if Oda wrote Naruto it would've been a better story now, wouldn't it?


----------



## raizen28 (Feb 23, 2013)

Shitty art. That is all.


----------



## The Space Cowboy (Feb 23, 2013)

If Oda wrote Naruto, it would suck.  Kishi is much better at developing his characters


----------



## The Inevitable Llama (Feb 23, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> Really? Oh well.
> 
> We can discuss this further when the OP makes this thread in the SL.



He already did it just a few days ago. Got locked after 5 posts


----------



## Seiji (Feb 23, 2013)

La buse said:


> What if Oda wrote Naruto?



I won't read it. Simple as that.


----------



## Cromer (Feb 23, 2013)

Honestly, do not want.


One Piece and Naruto occupy different niches in my fiction reading life, and they perform as advertised.


----------



## Goblin Market (Feb 23, 2013)

I would say Kishi's very, very bad with consistency and to a degree, planning his plot. However if Oda were to write it like Naruto I'm not so sure he's not going to face some problems. 

See, OP's format is more like a quest whereas Naruto's format is more like a "story-line". An example would of a good story-line would be Death Note. It's planned really well and the pacing is good. With Naruto, Kishi just falls really, really short of writing story-line 

One of the biggest reason is that Kishi is stretching out the story whereas Death Note's plot has been planned very meticulously. This means Ohba and Obata (DN's mangakas) end it when it's suppose to end (if anyone reads Bakuman, they've a chapter where they said something like this. Can't remember which chapter). Whereas with Kishi, he has to keep pulling his manga along. Bleach, I believe suffered the same problem. When you don't know what you're doing with your plot, it's bound to come out flimsy.


You can't really compare Oda and Kishi IMO. Oda's got his own way and Kishi's got his own way.

For example, if Oda were to write Naruto how would he handle Itachi? How would he handle the morality issues that come with Itachi? Conversely, if Kishi were to write OP how would he have handled (for example) Sanji when he nearly starved on the island as a child?

Both are shounen genre but I've always felt that Oda's work is aimed towards the younger range of shounen. There is a certain sense of naiveness in his characters or the way he portrays situations. Kishi on the other hand, just falls flat on consistency, planning and plot. He's struggling to maintain a long, running manga.

Both I'd say treat their female characters fairly well (and fairly similar). Both have female characters in position of power: Tsunade, Boa who showcase their fighting skills but at the end of the day they tend to concentrate on their male characters more. 

At least they're better than how Ohba and Obata treat their female characters. Can't complain in the face of that.  

Also, I'd give Kishi credit for character development. They grow and mature. Oda's characters don't


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 23, 2013)

raizen28 said:


> Shitty art. That is all.



Anyone who pulls this weak ass arguement clearly hasn't reead past chapter 4. Oda's range as an artist far surpasses kishi.


----------



## CyberianGinseng (Feb 23, 2013)

La buse said:


> How do you think it would be?


The art would be so ugly, the characters so annoying, and the story so nutty I wouldn't be reading it in the first place. :


----------



## wibisana (Feb 23, 2013)

lol I love Naruto, but Oda (he is creator of One Piece right?) was better artist from Kishi
Hinata, Ino, Anko, Tsunade would be much Sexier.
instead having Naruto and Sasuke >>>>>> everyone else, Oda would make other chars grow.
Oda better at foreshadowing, who knows the whale at Grand Line entrance is connected to Brook, while in Naruto kishi just pull ass from another,
remember Nagato and Karin being Uzumaki? lol. there is no single relevant hint. unless Karin hair is as red as Kushina and Garaa (which is not Uzumaki at all).

but somehow for me Naruto is more interesting than OP, maybe because I know it before OP.

yeah this wont end well btw


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 23, 2013)

> The art would be so ugly, the characters so annoying, and the story so nutty I wouldn't be reading it in the first place. :


So the characters all need to be bishies in order for you to like something?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 23, 2013)

Totsuka Blitz said:


> If Oda wrote this manga, then we would probably still be in part 1 with all back stories of rookies explored. Sakura might suck less, Sasuke might be less EMO and Naruto might be more gluttonous. I like how Part 2 made the manga a little more adult and darker and Oda might have made Naruto a little more hilarious and little less serious.



But Part II isn't dark, it's just angsty.



The Space Cowboy said:


> If Oda wrote Naruto, it would suck.  Kishi is much better at developing his characters



Credibility shattered.



Louis-954 said:


> So the characters all need to be bishies in order for you to like something?



Apparently some can't stand to read without generic anime bishie #222492429.


----------



## Vash (Feb 23, 2013)

It would be shit.

LOL ODA


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 23, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Anyone who pulls this weak ass arguement clearly hasn't reead past chapter 4. Oda's range as an artist far surpasses kishi.




Nope, when Kishi actually tries he pretty much can shit on Oda in artwork. 

But, now Kishi really doesn't give a shit anymore. I think he just wants to write about something else with a whole new story. For example, look at the Kakashi Gaiden before Part 2 began or look at Jiraiya's own story. Kishi seems to write better when he isn't focused on Naruto and Sasuke.

There is also the fact that Kishi is a good writer if you look at the manga as whole. Just look at the concept of 'Sage Mode', which has been foreshadowed since Part 1 and will play a major role in the story soon. I'll make a thread about it when I feel like it.

Part 1 Naruto>>One Piece.


----------



## AoshiKun (Feb 23, 2013)

Oda is better than Kishimoto but Naruto would be very different so I don't know if it would be better or not.


----------



## Senju Leader (Feb 23, 2013)

Naruto would be boring and really predictable. One piece is probably the most boring and childish out of the big 3. I was one of the people who started One piece around the Marineford war, which fooled me into thinking it was a good manga. But after reading though the terrible Fishman Island, and Punk hazard Arc's I had to drop it . One Piece is probably the most Overrated Manga in history. 

With one piece you already know who the final battle is going to be between(Luffy & Blackbeard), while Naruto has that element of surprise and leaves you guessing even though we're at the end already.

Plus Luffy is just a Goku Clone


----------



## Magician (Feb 23, 2013)

Senju Leader said:


> Naruto would be boring and really predictable. One piece is probably the most boring and childish out of the big 3. I was one of the people who started One piece around the Marineford war, which fooled me into thinking it was a good manga. But after reading though the terrible Fishman Island, and Punk hazard Arc's I had to drop it . One Piece is probably the most Overrated Manga in history.
> 
> With one piece you already know who the final battle is going to be between(Luffy & Blackbeard), while Naruto has that element of surprise and leaves you guessing even though we're at the end already.
> 
> Plus Luffy is just a Goku Clone



Yeah let's just skip 8 arcs and judge the whole series by that  Why don't I just skip to Turtle Island Arc in Naruto and then form my opinion on the series?


----------



## Revolution (Feb 24, 2013)

Choji would keep his clown hair in part two.


----------



## Klue (Feb 24, 2013)

♠God♠ said:


> It would be bad.



Umm, why exactly?


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> One piece is probably the most boring and *childish* out of the big 3.


Yeah no.


Only 12% of readers/watchers of the series are under the age of 18. Naruto is far more kid friendly. Call me when Kishi decides to write an antagonist so evil he kidnaps babies and small children and gets them addicted to *Meth.*



> Nope, when Kishi actually tries he pretty much can shit on Oda in artwork.


Show me some of Kishi's "great art work". For every one you link I'll link two more of Oda's that shits on it.


----------



## Raiden (Feb 24, 2013)

It would follow the same pattern of character development and "power inflation." It's a shonen about fighting. There's nothing left field about this manga. What makes Kishimoto good is the quality of the characters that he writes.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> *It would follow the same pattern of*  character development and *"power inflation."* It's a shonen about  fighting. There's nothing left field about this manga. What makes  Kishimoto good is the quality of the characters that he writes.


Nah, not really. In One Piece the lines in the sand have always been pretty clear.



> *Luffy *is just a Goku Clone



Is that so?


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Nitharad said:


> Fun question !
> 
> So :
> 
> ...



Ye you should read things more carefully...
Kishi is the master of foreshadowing...


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 24, 2013)

Raiden said:


> It would follow the same pattern of character development and "power inflation." It's a shonen about fighting. There's nothing left field about this manga. What makes Kishimoto good is the quality of the characters that he writes.



But his characters tend to be terrible except for a very select few. Also, OP isn't suffering from the power inflation Naruto is.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 24, 2013)

Also, what is with this stupid idea that Naruto is less childish or "darker"? It's only angstier and more convoluted. It's no more mature than your standard shonen. Hell, even in Part I it was pretty tame in the violence department than many shonen that have gone through in the years. The character depth is as shallow as any other too, although its waters not as pristine...


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Ye you should read things more carefully...
> Kishi is the master of foreshadowing...


No.







And my personal favorite...


----------



## Missing_Nin (Feb 24, 2013)

it wouldnt be as successful.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> it wouldnt be as successful.


One Piece is the most successful shounen ever written.



> In 2008, _One Piece_ became the highest-circulating manga series. In 2010, Shueisha announced that they sold over 260 million volumes of _One Piece_  manga so far; volume 61 set a new record for the highest initial print  run of any book in Japan in history with 3.8 million copies (the  previous record belonging to volume 60 with 3.4 million copies). Volume  60 was the first book to sell over two million copies in its opening  week on Japan's  book rankings. _One Piece_ is currently ranked as the best-selling series of all time in manga history. It enjoys a very high readership, with more than 280 million volumes of the series sold by 2012 in Japan. _One Piece_ has received wide critical acclaim from reviewers, primarily for its art, characterization, humor and story.





> _One Piece_, the most popular manga series of all time in Japan  and one of the most popular manga series worldwide, is the  highest-selling manga in the history of _Weekly Shōnen Jump_  and has received wide critical acclaim, primarily for its art,  characterization, humor, story and its length. It now currently ranks at  number one for the best-selling manga in history.





> is also the first manga to increase _Weekly Shōnen Jump'_s sales in eleven years.  Volume 61 holds a manga publishing record in Japan, with 3.8 million  copies published in its first printing alone, breaking its own previous  records established by volumes 57, 59 and 60 (at 3.0, 3.2 and  3.4 million copies respectively).  In addition to that, it also broke Japan's all time first print  publishing record of all books, passing the previous record of  2.9 million copies, held by .  Overall, the series has re-written Japanese record for first print  manga publication 9 times with Volumes 24, 25, 26, 27, 56, 57, 59, 60,  61 and 63.  The first week sales of volume 60, at 2,094,123 copies, also broke the  Japanese all-time sales record for all books in its debut week, and is  currently the only book to reach the 2 million mark in its first week.  It is also currently the highest selling manga series of all time in  Japan with over 230 million copies sold, and the fastest manga series to reach sales of 100 million.





> was the best-selling manga series during 2008 in  Japan with 5 volumes sold. Volumes 50, 51 and 49 placed first, second,  and fourth, respectively, on Oricon's list of best selling manga  volumes, with sales of 1,678,208, 1,646,978, and 1,544 copies sold  respectively.  Additionally, Oricon conducted a popularity survey with Japanese male  and female readers between with ages ranging from ten to forty to  determine the "Most Interesting Manga of 2008". In that survey, the four  _One Piece_ volumes published that year, volumes 49, 50, 51, and 52, placed first with an approval rating of 45.9%. In ICv2's list of "Top 25 Manga Properties Fall 2008", _One Piece_ made a 15th place. In 2010 _One Piece_ had improved to 2nd in ICv2's list of "Top 25 Manga Properties—Q3 2010".





> According to , which gathers its rankings for Oricon, _One Piece_ maintained its top spot in 2009 with 14,721,241 copies sold, more than second [naruto] and third place [bleach] combined. The four volumes released during that time frame 53, 54, 52, 55 ranked 1–4 respectively for single volume sales.





> In 2010 _One Piece_ again maintained its top spot with  32,343,809 copies sold, more than second Naruto, third Kimi ni Todoke,  fourth Fairy Tail, fifth Bleach and sixth Fullmetal Alchemist combined.





> ANN comments that the art style of the _One Piece_ manga  requires "time to get used to" with its "very simple" artwork and its  designs, which appear "very cartoonish" at first. They also note that  the influence of  () shines through in Oda's style of writing with its "huge  [] epic battles punctuated by a lot of humor" and that, in _One Piece_, he creates a "rich tale" without focusing too much on plot. Active Anime describes the art work in _One Piece_ as "wonderfully quirky and full of expression". Splashcomics comments that Oda's "pleasantly bright and dynamic" (: _"angenehm hell und dynamisch"_) art style suits the story's "funny and exciting" (German: "witzigen und ... spannenden") atmosphere.





> EX lauds Oda's art for its "crispy" monochrome pictures, "great use  of subtle shade changes" on color pages, "sometimes exquisite" use of  angles, and for its consistency. , who at some point edited the series for _Shonen Jump_,  said that, while doing so, her amazement over Oda's craft grew  increasingly. She states that "he has a natural, playful mastery of the  often restrictive weekly-manga format", notes that "interesting things  [are] going on deep in the narrative structure", and recommends  "sticking through to the later volumes to see just how crazy and -y the art gets."  Mania Entertainment writer Jarred Pine comments that "One Piece is a  fun adventure story, with an ensemble cast that is continuing to  develop, with great action and character drama." He lauds Oda's artwork  as "imaginative and creative" and comments that "Oda's imagination just  oozes all of the panels". He also comments that "Oda's panel work [...]  features a lot of interesting perspectives and direction, especially  during the explosive action sequences which are always a blast", though  he complains that the panels can sometimes get "a little chaotic".
> The North American releases of the English translation of volumes 39–43 debuted at #5–9 on the  Best Seller Manga list.


One Piece's 60th volume held the fastest selling record until in  February 2011, the manga beat its own record with its 61st volume,  selling 2,086,080 copies in 3 days after its official sale (Feb 4–6).[/quote]


> The manga was a finalist for the  three times in a row from 2000 to 2002, with the highest number of fan nominations in the first two years.
> The German translation of its 44th volume won the   for international manga category, a yearly comic award given for 7 categories by the , the ,  and  since 2004, on the  Comics Centre in 2005.
> In a 2008 poll by , Japanese teenagers elected it the most interesting manga.


----------



## Shinryu (Feb 24, 2013)

The plot would be be better written and though ahead

The characters would receive development

No bullshit like sharingan or Senju buttwank


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

It's boring to take the easy route.

I'm wondering what would be _lost_ if this were to happen.

For example, if Oda started writing Bleach then the dialogue wouldn't be as cool.

So I'm interested in hearing what Kishimoto would do better than Oda would.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> It's boring to take the easy route.
> 
> I'm wondering what would be _lost_ if this were to happen.
> 
> ...



Disappoint us.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> For example, if Oda started writing Bleach then the dialogue wouldn't be as cool.


The dialogue in Bleach is cool? o.O Some of the speeches in one Piece send chills down my spine.

Great Waterfall Technique

Great Waterfall Technique
Great Waterfall Technique
Great Waterfall Technique




> So I'm interested in hearing what Kishimoto would do better than Oda would.


Pretty much nothing. Not to say Kishi is bad but is Oda is a better story teller, world builder, and artist. In One Piece secondary characters like the Konoha 11 aren't left to rot in favor of the two mains for years on end.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Disappoint us.



I'm sure there's something he does better than Oda.

I've stopped reading Naruto but it doesn't sound like it's getting any better.

Although Part 1 was genuinely good.

I'd sincerely like to hear what people think Kishimoto might do better.


----------



## Impact (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis bringing in those cold hard facts 

Too bad NB is banned


----------



## Missing_Nin (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> One Piece is the most successful shounen ever written.
> 
> One Piece's 60th volume held the fastest selling record until in  February 2011, the manga beat its own record with its 61st volume,  selling 2,086,080 copies in 3 days after its official sale (Feb 4?6).


[/QUOTE]

sure if you only count manga sales.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> It's almost sad how delusional some of these responses have been.


Well, at least you went from making poorly constructed comparisons and attempts at extolling depth from One Piece where it is hardly intended to just talking direct shit. It's a step up, at least for what you're trying to do.



Louis-954 said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure if you didn't realize this, but foreshadowing tends to have impact on the story, like the second and third, while the rest are things that can easily be inserted later on by a whim with no impact to the story. Take the first example, where Oda obviously thought it would be funny to use that merman doodle in a crowd. What it shows is that he can and does look back at his older material. Another point I should add is that Oda can and does make arcs that operate largely within themselves because that's what he seems to enjoy, so if he wanted to build off of an older point he could easily create an arc from thin air with no consequence to the continuity. But nobody can know if that's the case or not and I see that as deserving recognition in its own way regardless.

Also Oda's foreshadowing doesn't do anything to discredit Kishimoto's, unless apparently you're a rabid OP fan posting in a Naruto board on a Naruto forum about how awful Naruto is in every respect. A good amount of the people actively reading Naruto complain about things popping out of nowhere, when they were in fact referenced hundreds of chapters ago. Given that Kishi's genre deals more with drawn out events and specific lore as opposed to world questing it shouldn't be a shock that it has more legitimate foreshadowing thrown into it, but that would be overestimating human sensibility for One Piece fans to allow the idea that Naruto wasn't wholly worse in every respect.



sure if you only count manga sales.[/QUOTE]
That's the most legitimate way to see a manga's success, though only in comparison to other mangas it's being produced against it in modern day. You can try saying certain audiences wouldn't buy something or a group would read one purchase but that case should more or less level out among all mangas to a point that it's moot. Though I forget whether that popularity poll was done only in Japan or not.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> The dialogue in Bleach is cool? o.O Some of the speeches in one Piece send chills down my spine.



Bleach has always been about style over substance;

_
*Spoiler*:  



There is nothing but fear reflected in your sword. When you dodge, you're afraid of getting killed. When you attack, you're afraid of killing someone. Even when you try to protect someone, you're afraid of letting them die. Yes, your sword speaks to me only of absurd fear. What's necessary in a fight isn't fear. Nothing can be born of that. When you dodge, "I won't let them cut me." When you protect someone, "I won't let them die." When you attack, "I will kill them." Well, can't you see the resolve to kill you in my sword? 


_

_
*Spoiler*:  



 Immaculate being... Was it? In this secular existence, perfection is an illusion, regardless of those who utter the contrary. This is the reality. Common man seeks it out, they strive to achieve it, as if it were some tangible thing... But... The fact of the matter is, perfection is a hollow shell. It is devoid of any substance. I spit on perfection. Perfection, after all, implies you've reached the summit. No trial and error, no ability to conceptualize. An omniscient being would have no need for such superfluous things... Am I making myself clear? For people who dabble in the sciences, such as ourselves, perfection would make us obsolete. Many magnificent things have been, and will continue to come into existence... And yet, every last one of them will fall short of perfection's finish. Our function as men of science relies on their many shortcomings. Then, and only then, can we apply the fruits of our labor. To put it simply... As soon as you began spouting that nonsense about perfection, your fate was sealed. You dare call yourself a man of science?


_


*Spoiler*: __ 



_
I was glad you did not pretend to be a saint and claim to love the world despite everything. That is why I decided that I would be your true friend. I would accept your sorrow. And I would share my joy. If you strayed I would reprimand you. If you made mistakes, I would forgive you. And when you found yourself in trouble, I would be there for you. So that you who learned to hate the world, would come to love it once more._





*Spoiler*: __ 



_Only underlings get caught up in matters of style and lose the battle. A captain can't afford such indulgences. Don't try to be a good kid. Whether you owe somebody or they owe you. The moment you start a fight, you're in the wrong either way._




Although the best examples are really just during a simple back and forth.

There's a scene where a characters asks, _"How long have you known?"_ and the reply is _"Since you were in your mother's womb."_

It's not William Faulkner, but it stands out.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Ah dudes don't like it don't read it.
Go read OP then.
KTHXBYE!
And I find OP really boring...
So I don't read it...
Even a dog had flashbacks there lol. really?
And complaining about power inflation?
You really don't like dbz then...
Nothing to do on this thread.(pulls out jet pack and flies away)


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Corporal said:


> Well, at least you went from making poorly constructed comparisons and attempts at extolling depth from One Piece where it is hardly intended to just talking direct shit. It's a step up, at least for what you're trying to do.





Cheeky said:


> I'm sure there's something he does better than Oda.
> 
> I've stopped reading Naruto but it doesn't sound like it's getting any better.
> 
> ...



If you want to talk to me so badly then you should answer my question.

With a couple of examples, what would you say Kishimoto's best at?


----------



## kx11 (Feb 24, 2013)

if he did naruto would have a lot of characters unlike now where there are 3 characters that beat everything now matter how kishi hype it


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> sure if you only count manga sales.





> The 2012 Olympics are well underway in the city of London, England.  To celebrate anime/manga-style, the popular Japanese analytics and  survey company, Oricon, gathered the opinions of the general public at  an event known as the World Cosplay Summit. *20 countries were  represented, including* Japan,* England, Indonesia, and Russia* in the  survey which asked them what they felt were the top world class  anime/manga.
> Who came out on top? In order according to Oricon, the top 10 world class anime and manga list is as follows:
> 1. Dragon Ball
> *2. One Piece*
> ...


tank a bijuu dama from prime kurama without a scratch



> Bleach has always been about style over substance;
> 
> _ *Spoiler*:
> 
> ...


I'll give you that. To be honest I forgot about how great some of Aizens were. I thoroughly enjoyed quite a few of his; really thought provoking stuff.



> Even a dog had flashbacks there lol. really?


No more stupid than Akamaru's.


----------



## lazer (Feb 24, 2013)

It wouldn't be as occultish...which would suck. One piece is too lollipops and gum drops for me.


----------



## smoker San (Feb 24, 2013)

Damn, you go Louis!

Putting them narutards in their place.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> tank a bijuu dama from prime kurama without a scratch
> 
> I'll give you that. To be honest I forgot about how great some of Aizens were. I thoroughly enjoyed quite a few of his; really thought provoking stuff.
> 
> No more stupid than Akamaru's.



So you are an OP fan good for you.
Global statistics don't dictate what I like or not.
Doraemon is way better than OP* in my opinion*.
Ah i see you changed your last line.
In that case OP is really stupid also.
The guy can't be shoot but can be cut?
Makes no sense.
Just stupid!
And a guy cutting a ship with one sword strike?
Talk about power inflation...
As you can see I don't know much about OP because it really bores me.
And if this is the kind of fandom OP has, One more reason to avoid it.
Ill take my chances with Minato and Itachis fans, way more cool.
So ye good luck putting the Narutards in place.
At least The Villains are not clowns.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Only 12% of readers/watchers of the series are under the age of 18. Naruto is far more kid friendly. Call me when Kishi decides to write an antagonist so evil he kidnaps babies and small children and gets them addicted to Meth.



Orochimaru.



> Show me some of Kishi's "great art work". For every one you link I'll link two more of Oda's that shits on it.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> It wouldn't be as occultish...which would suck. One piece is too lollipops and gum drops for me.















Lollipops and gumdrops, riiiight...


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I'll give you that. To be honest I forgot about how great some of Aizens were. I thoroughly enjoyed quite a few of his; really thought provoking stuff.



The only stuff in OP that really stuck with me was Doflamingo's _"justice"_ speech.

The best dialogue in OP are things like Robin's_ "I wanna live!"_ to Luffy.

It means a lot more because OP just has an emotional edge to it, but the actual sentences aren't that flowery. It's memorable because of its context.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Orochimaru.


Orochimaru put *toddlers on meth* like Caesar Crown? Scans?



> Show me some of Kishi's "great art work". For every one you link I'll link two more of Oda's that shits on it.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> If you want to talk to me so badly then you should answer my question.
> 
> *With a couple of examples, what would you say Kishimoto's best at?*


Kishi is good at building things up, but not executing them properly. Take Tobi's identity for example, before he was revealed you could feel that villain aura coming out of him, wanting to know who is behind the mask. But, in the end it turned out to be the one we all expected even though he was foreshadowing since the end of the Kakashi Gaiden.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Honestly Oda's artwork is consistently better than Kishi's.

And other than a preferance of style, I see little arguement for Naruto.



-Dragon- said:


> Kishi is good at building things up, but not executing them properly. Take Tobi's identity for example, before he was revealed you could feel that villain aura coming out of him, wanting to know who is behind the mask. But, in the end it turned out to be the one we all expected even though he was foreshadowing since the end of the Kakashi Gaiden.



Oda's good at this too. But he actually delivers. I mean stuff he's better than Oda at.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> At least The Villains are not clowns.


What villain in OP is a clown? Name one.


----------



## mad-ass (Feb 24, 2013)

It would be like the chuunin exam arc. Lots of interesting characters with special abilities and fighting styles. Some seem stronger than the other, but in the right hands they all have incredible potential.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Both One Piece and Bleach have awesome dialogue. Doflamingo's speech at the Whitebeard war about justice was awesome. As was Blackbeard's about a man's dream. 

Naruto doesn't have any of that but Naruto doesn't nearly have as much bad points that Bleach does so it's superior in a sense. I mean, when Stark was killed by a Shikai in a single chapter that was really disappointing. 

Bleach can get really poetic though. Like, for example, Ulquiorra. That was the best character in the manga. And the fact that he wanted to understand the human heart, while also blowing out a hole in the chest of his victims...just awesome.

However, the problem with Bleach is that the bad moments are just bad. The arrancar arc dragged on for too long and Aizen became too much of a joke towards the end of the fight with the Gotei 13. Not to mention the fullbring arc which felt like a legitimate manga filler.






The thing that seperates One Piece from the rest isn't just the writing. It's the sense of adventure as well. There's so much to the one piece world and it just keeps on getting crazier. Thriller Bark, Sky Island, Shaobady, Fishman Island, Punk Hazard and even Arabasta were all really unique. 

The One Piece story is deep. _Really deep_. Can't say the same for Naruto at this point. It's all bonds, hatred and rivalries. 











tl;dr Manga would be better if Oda wrote it. But it'd be really goddamn long and anyone who's obsessed with bishi ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) characters would be disappointed.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Clowns make pretty shit villians after all. 

Like the Joker from Batman? 

So yeah, that's a pretty good arguement.


----------



## kx11 (Feb 24, 2013)




----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Feb 24, 2013)

Would quit halfway down, like I did with one piece.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> If you want to talk to me so badly then you should answer my question.


Okay, it's just that we already had a discussion where I had validated that the Eye of the Moon was not a shoddy and purely tweenage love angst induced plot, though if you've stopped reading I guess you learned what you did about it from what people have said about it so I can't blame you for seeing it as such.



> With a couple of examples, what would you say Kishimoto's best at?


Well the thing is that he has stopped doing/doing as well a lot of the stuff I liked about Naruto to a point that I wouldn't be reading if this was the original quality, even though it's not yet bad or awful.

One thing that I originally really appreciated was when a character was fleshed out during a battle alongside a display of their abilities. One of the more iconic examples of this was Rock Lee vs. Gaara. A lot of generally simple shonen themes like never giving up and believing in yourself actually ended up resonating with me because they were delivered so well. By the end of the fight when he unleashes the Gates, after all that pathos was built up between him, it was extremely satisfying to see what Lee had accomplished.

Another powerful thing are the pseudo-deaths and deaths which I believe testify how well he can build up some of the characters and how quickly, though the fake ones lose their original impact after awhile(and would begin to stop procuring emotion at all once not actually dying became highly expected). Choji was a meaningless gag character for a majority of the First Arc before the Retrieval Arc, and I believe the viewer was intended to see him as such before that just to prove to them that their preconceptions were wildly off. When Choji got all that sudden attention only to "die" it was extremely well done, because it was planted right at the moment where most would begin to care for him as a character. It was especially well played out in the anime. 

Another point is the original combat style(slowly dying out) that really set it apart from other manga. Ninja were always ninja in popular media, but Kishi took a lot of the basic concepts and really ran with it to great results, moves I think even define some elements of ninja in pop culture. With traditional shonen, ninja reality/fiction elements, and his own unique ideas thrown in, he really had the most enjoyable action going for him. Discovering somebody's jutsu specialty was always a treat.

So yeah, off the top of my head I think he's good/one of the best at making old shonen ideas fresh and engaging, building up good character connections when he's trying, and having the most interesting fight sequences out there. The world itself is another big one.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Orochimaru put *toddlers on meth* like Caesar Crown? Scans?


Orochimaru stole babies, not toddlers, and injected with cells knowing they would die on spot. 



>








Cheeky said:


> Honestly Oda's artwork is consistently better than Kishi's.
> 
> And other than a preferance of style, I see little arguement for Naruto.
> 
> ...


There is a difference, Oda actually cares about his series, Kishi doesn't. You can tell just by how rushed Part 2.

Oda's build up is usually boring. Punk Hazard was boring up until the end.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Also, this "Oda has bad art" thing is just stupid. There's some really amazing artwork. And not to mention his covers warrant a "Dat Cover" thread every week in the telegrams.

The sheer amount of effort he puts into panels is enough.

And again. 
Those fucking covers.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Orochimaru stole babies, not toddlers, and injected with cells knowing they would die on spot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> Also, this "Oda has bad art" thing is just stupid. There's some really amazing artwork. And not to mention his covers warrant a "Dat Cover" thread every week in the telegrams.
> 
> The sheer amount of effort he puts into panels is enough.
> 
> ...



But he doesn't use generic bishie models, ace!


----------



## kx11 (Feb 24, 2013)

only oda can present 20+ new characters in a cover


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Lol


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

> But he doesn't use generic bishie models, ace!



Sadly that's 75% of the Itachi and Minato fan base which are the two most outspoken ones on the forums.


----------



## lazer (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> What villain in OP is a clown? Name one.





Well, his not literally a clown buuuuut you get the idea


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Regardless of whether Kishi tries or not, you factor that in. It counts.

Personally the only problems I can think of with their art is that One Piece can crowd panels and Kishi can succumb to sameface syndrome.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


>







> Well, his not literally a clown buuuuut you get the idea


Mr.2 Bon Clay isn't a villain or a clown. He's an Okama and a Strawhat ally. Anyway, I hope you read my response to your "gumdrops and rainbows" comment on the previous page.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

That samurai page was pretty awesome.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

I was really interested in the politics and history of the Naruto world, but he seems to feel the need to write some pseudo-religious origin story instead. That was a shame.

Part 1's fights were very entertaining, and were probably done better than most of the fights you see in One Piece. I can dig that. I've never felt that action was a major part of Oda's story, though. But Zabuza's last few moments, and Lee vs. Gaara were awesome to watch animated. I also like the fight with Sakon and Ukon.

Problem is since the time-skip even that's declined.


----------



## C-Moon (Feb 24, 2013)

Where'd the "no one dies in OP" crowd go? Akainu would like to have a few words with you.


----------



## ammarz (Feb 24, 2013)

I don't thik this is a pertinent question. Each author has his own way of doing things. Every one has things which he/she would like to highlight. For example, Kishimoto is quite big on the complexities of war and revenge while Oda focuses quite a lot on racism (in my opinion, this is just used as a tool, quite an effective one at that, to stoke a reader's emotions as racism is not a complicated issue and is bad period). Thus, Naruto would be something else, so I don't think, a question like this has an answer.

On a side note, a word of advice to some of the One Piece fans here. Manga preference is all about one's own personal choices, so there is no factual good or bad. One may like somethings, while others may not agree and one should be fine with that. There should be no need to bicker and challenge others over the slightest differences in manga preference.


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Feb 24, 2013)

I don't like One Piece art, looks like some child drew it. I admit that One Piece has a great story to it, in Naruto its all about rivalries which gets really boring and repetitive after a while.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Mr.2 Bon Clay isn't a villain or a clown. He's an Okama and a Strawhat ally. Anyway, I hope you read my response to your "gumdrops and rainbows" comment on the previous page.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Also Buggy's a clown. How could people forget him?


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> I was really interested in the politics and history of the Naruto world, but he seems to feel the need to write some pseudo-religious origin story instead. That was a shame.
> 
> Part 1's fights were very entertaining, and were probably done better than most of the fights you see in One Piece. I can dig that. I've never felt that action was a major part of Oda's story, though. But Zabuza's last few moments, and Lee vs. Gaara were awesome to watch animated. I also like the fight with Sakon and Ukon.
> 
> Problem is since the time-skip even that's declined.



The timeskip itself felt forced.


----------



## Magician (Feb 24, 2013)

Look, I love Naruto too as much as the next guy. Although I tend to complain a lot, Naruto has been a great entertaining series and though Kishi tends to make a shit ton of mistakes, I still consider him a GREAT writer.

But to compare him to Oda is kind of ridiculous. You may not like One Piece or think it's overrated, which is understandable, not everyone has the same opinion, but Oda's writing ability is outstanding. Anybody who is a writer or aspiring writer knows how hard it is to write characters and to handle more than 3 and give them enough screen time is a hard task in itself. 

The amount of characters in One Piece that Oda has that are of significance is frecking large! He handles almost every one of those characters beautifully, giving them just the right amount of screen time to create enough intrigue to garner many fans, and not take away from the overall story. Like Doflamingo for instance. Before Marineford, Dofla has had probably a maximum of 5 panels and people still loved his exciting, sadistic personality. In the Marineford Arc, Doflamingo solidified himself in the fan base in only a few amount of panels compared to the other major players in the arc. 

Oda has many more characters like that, who only have a few panels, but in those few panels their character design, personality, and impact to the story is revealed enough to have massive intrigue to their character and leaving us wanting more.

I'm not going to go over every aspect of Oda's writing but he showed IMO a far great story writing ability than Kishi and although Kishi is a great mangaka and one of the best in my opinion. Oda just outshines him in almost every way. There's a reason why One Piece is the most successful manga series of all time.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


>


----------



## smoker San (Feb 24, 2013)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> I don't like One Piece art, *looks like some child drew it.* I admit that One Piece has a great story to it, in Naruto its all about rivalries which gets really boring and repetitive after a while.






Have you not seen all the covers Louis posted? Just look above you or go back a page.


----------



## Reddan (Feb 24, 2013)

If Oda wrote Naruto then, the general interaction of the characters would be better. A lot more time would be spent with team 7 on their day to day lives. We would see the other missions they did and would get a better sense that Sasuke and Naruto were best friends. The comedy in the manga would also be better.

However, the overall story would be worse and things would not be connected as well. We would bounce aimlessly around different lands without an overall direction of the story. When Oda tries to interject philosophy or morals into the story he would fail completely. The fights would be of a lower standard and there would be no cunning or intellect used in them. All fights would be brute strength.

The Naruto Sasuke rivalry would be one in name only, since Naruto would always outshine Sasuke just like Luffy always outshines Zoro. There would be not deaths and the quality of the manga would be much lower.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


>





Instead of spamming images, why not admit Kishi is just as good as Oda in art when he actually cares.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Luffy always outshines Zoro? What?

Ignoring the fact that Zoro and Luffy don't have a rivalry like Naruto and Sasuke, so it's not comparable, that's just not true anyways.


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Feb 24, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> Look, I love Naruto too as much as the next guy. Although I tend to complain a lot, Naruto has been a great entertaining series and though Kishi tends to make a shit ton of mistakes, I still consider him a GREAT writer.
> 
> But to compare him to Oda is kind of ridiculous. You may not like One Piece or think it's overrated, which is understandable, not everyone has the same opinion, but Oda's writing ability is outstanding. Anybody who is a writer or aspiring writer knows how hard it is to write characters and to handle more than 3 and give them enough screen time is a hard task in itself.
> 
> ...



You have to remember, Naruto is a kids manga and the title "Naruto" means he has to focus on that character the most. One Piece is all about treasures so there are many routes Oda can take with underwater world and the new vast unexplored world. While Naruto its very limited to the 5 Villages and the character Naruto as he is the main character and holds the title so there isn't much Kishi could do but if he renamed the manga, then he could have had more panel time for other characters like Neji and Rock Lee. By giving them few panel time and making the female characters like Sakura to fodder level means Kishi will lose a lot of fanbase.

Rock Lee has separate fan base and so does Neji but because Kishi does not show them as much and being how forced Neji's death was, I wouldn't be surprised if Naruto loses its popularity to Bleach and other manga in time. But seeing as Naruto is nearing to its end, the popularity might just surge in couple of months time for those who want to see the ending.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Excessive swords are always great.



Cheeky said:


> I was really interested in the politics and history of the Naruto world, but he seems to feel the need to write some pseudo-religious origin story instead. That was a shame.


Kage Summit was a real breathe of fresh air because it restored all of that political intrigue and brought a lot of that into the open.

One thing is that, while Kishi has now hit upon most/all villages he's done it a tad bit late. I would've had an arc before Retrieval that went to a new village, and had an arc with the fifth village after Kazekage Rescue Arc to keep the new part fresh and to get the other villages more involved.



> Part 1's fights were very entertaining, and were probably done better than most of the fights you see in One Piece. I can dig that. I've never felt that action was a major part of Oda's story, though. But Zabuza's last few moments, and Lee vs. Gaara were awesome to watch animated. I also like the fight with Sakon and Ukon.


I don't know quite how to put it, but One Piece fights are primarily about showcasing talents in fun ways? Kind of sounds like all fights in shonen, but Oda does it well.



> Problem is since the time-skip even that's declined.


Wonky art at times, but there are some fun battles in the newer episodes despite the fact that I prefer pre-power creep power levels. Sasuke vs. Deidara was a great mind game with some really fun twists, and Killer Bee vs. Sasuke was nice to see animated.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

> One Piece is all about treasures


lol what
at this point i need to ask if you've read one piece...


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Instead of spamming images, why not admit Kishi is just as good as Oda in art when he actually cares.


Sure, I can agree to that I suppose. I'm having fun linking images though.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Instead of spamming images, why not admit Kishi is just as good as Oda in art when he actually cares.



Even then it's still goes to Oda. He's more consistent and therefore "better".

So other than some interesting fights it doesn't look like the manga would lose much if Oda took over or created it himself instead.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> What villain in OP is a clown? Name one.



*Spoiler*: __ 







The red nose gives him away.
Its not Rudolph.



Cheeky said:


> Even then it's still goes to Oda. He's more consistent and therefore "better".
> 
> So other than some interesting fights it doesn't look like the manga would lose much if Oda took over or created it himself instead.


Different Manga art styles.
Is tomato a fruit or a vegetable?
And I don't want to see Madara with a clowns nose.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

Buggy isn't a villain.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

>Buggy
>Villain

Pick one.


----------



## C-Moon (Feb 24, 2013)

The world building would expand beyond Konoha, Suna, random desolate landscape #122, and the Uchiha being at fault for nearly everything. Side characters and female characters would matter. Naruto wouldn't need a prophecy to regain relevance. Hidan & Kakuzu wouldn't have been discarded so unceremoniously.


----------



## Reddan (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> Luffy always outshines Zoro? What?
> 
> Ignoring the fact that Zoro and Luffy don't have a rivalry like Naruto and Sasuke, so it's not comparable, that's just not true anyways.



Of course it is true. When has Zoro ever faced the strongest bad guy and won? To be fair Oda does provide Zoro with an excuse, but he never faces or defeats the strongest villain of the arc.

Against Arlong, Zoro is injured and loses, then Luffy wins. In Alabasta Luffy faces Crocodile, whilst Zoro gets the much weaker Mr 1. In sky Island Luffy defeats Eneru, where as Zoro is one shotted (true there is the rubber reason). Going on there is Luffy fighting Rob Lucci, whilst Zoro fought the much weaker CP9 memeber comparable with Sanji's opponent.

Luffy and Zoro are supposed to be equals in power and the whole point of Zoro's sacrifice against Kuma, was that they were equals. However, looking at the story that is obviously not the case.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Buggy isn't a villain.



Oh my bad.
He was a pirate, with a pirate crew, destroying a village.
But it seems I was wrong.
He was the village grocer.
My bad.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Sure, I can agree to that I suppose. I'm having fun linking images though.



lol


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Buggy was introduced as a villian.

Although what that matters is anybodys guess.



Sete said:


> Different Manga art styles.
> Is tomato a fruit or a vegetable?
> And I don't want to see Madara with a clowns nose.



Being more consistent is not an art style.

Tomatos are a fruit.

You are a vegetable.


----------



## Magician (Feb 24, 2013)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> The world building would expand beyond Konoha, Suna, random desolate landscape #122, and the Uchiha being at fault for nearly everything. Side characters and female characters would matter.



Yes, we would see a shit ton more from Sunagakura, Kumogakure, Iwagakure, and the Mist village(forgot what it's called), and also the Samurai country


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> Even then it's still goes to Oda. He's more consistent and therefore "better".


You can't compare an artist who works hard on everything and takes their time to one who rushes and barely tries. 




> So other than some interesting fights it doesn't look like the manga would lose much if Oda took over or created it himself instead.



If Oda created Naruto, we wouldn't have the Land of Waves Arc, would we? 

Considering that Arc in my opinion is better than all of the East Blue Arcs.


----------



## kx11 (Feb 24, 2013)

*-Dragon-* needs to understand he is humiliating kishi


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> lol


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> Yes, we would see a shit ton more from Sunagakura, Kumogakure, Iwagakure, and the Mist village(forgot what it's called), and also the Samurai country



Not exactly a plus. Naruto needed/needs to do more with the other villages, but the Oda style of full-on exposure and adventure into them would eliminate a lot of their foreign sense of mystery that I think is essential to framing the story through the eyes of Konoha as Kishi intends.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Considering that Arc in my opinion is better than all of the East Blue Arcs.



Land of Waves was great but Arlong's arc was one of my favourites.



Sete said:


> Tomato is a fruit and the most consumed vegetable in  the world (Mindblow).
> Nice one going for insults I can see your level now.
> Oh my bad you don't have a level with that petty talk.
> Kids these days.



It's not a vegetable.

And saying you don't want Madara to "have a red nose" doesn't really merit much intelligent discussion, does it?


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


>



Dat Whitebeard.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> Land of Waves was great but Arlong's arc was one of my favourites.



But it terms of writing Land of Waves takes it.

Besides Kishi has other works of fiction to judge his writing on.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> Land of Waves was great but Arlong's arc was one of my favourites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While it is botanically a fruit, it is considered a vegetable for culinary purposes.

What was saying about art styles, is the chars drawing differences.
Oda is a bit more exaggerated and flamboyant.
Yes you are right, it did not add merit to an intelligent discussion, but i'm not seeing an intelligent discussion here.
Just people trying to see which epeen is bigger.
And Buggy is a Villain or not?(albeit a minor one)


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Dat Whitebeard.


Second spread is my fav Nardo cover.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Second spread is my fav Nardo cover.



The Marineford volumes awesome. 

I think you will like these better.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Sete said:


> While it is botanically a fruit, it is considered a vegetable for culinary purposes.
> 
> What was saying about art styles, is the chars drawing differences.
> Oda is a bit more exaggerated and flamboyant.
> ...



That still doesn't make it a vegetable.

I said the same thing about art styles in the post you quoted.

I'd consider Buggy a minor villian.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)




----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> The Marineford volumes awesome.
> 
> I think you will like these better.


I see your Kishi and raise you an Oda!


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I see your Kishi and raise you an Oda!


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> That still doesn't make it a vegetable.
> 
> I said the same thing about art styles in the post you quoted.
> 
> I'd consider Buggy a minor villian.



But it is considered one.(might have used a bad example to demonstrate that the 2 Manga authors are completely different people and cant be compared.)
Then we agree.
So a villain.
Got nothing to add.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> But it is considered one.
> Then we agree.
> So a villain.
> Got nothing to add.


Why would a villain help the main character? Not only help but save his life.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Why would a villain help the main character? Not only help but save his life.


Keep in mind that Buggy also originally wanted Luffy dead. "Villains", whatever criteria you hold for them, can assist the main character if it coincides with their personal goal. The same very early example can be given to Zabuza. He was a villain, but only tried to kill the bridge builder for money and switched sides once Gato had fired him.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Keep in mind that Buggy also originally wanted Luffy dead. "Villains",  whatever criteria you hold for them, can assist the main character if it  coincides with their personal goal. The same very early example can be  given to Zabuza. He was a villain, but only tried to kill the bridge  builder for money and switched sides once Gato had fired him.


See my above post. They team up for 2 whole arcs and he even saves Luffy and Jimbei. Luffy has even come to think of him as a friend.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Why would a villain help the main character? Not only help but save his life.



As I said I don't read OP.
When introduced Buggy is a villain.
If he helped the main char, its one of those typical cases of Character redemption.
Kabuto, despite being a villain, also healed Hinata.
Orochimaru, despite being defeated by Sasuke, is also helping him.
But he his still a villain.
Edit: Saw your posts, and its redemption it seems.


----------



## C-Moon (Feb 24, 2013)

senjuclanownedme said:
			
		

> There would be not deaths and the quality of the manga would be much lower.


Akainu would like to call BS on that


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Kabuto, despite being a villain, also healed Hinata.
> Orochimaru, despite being defeated by Sasuke, is also helping him.
> But he his still a villain.


Buggy's relationship with Luffy is nothing like that.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

Sete said:


> But it is considered one.(might have used a bad example to demonstrate that the 2 Manga authors are completely different people and cant be compared.)
> Then we agree.
> So a villain.
> Got nothing to add.



I think you were meaning to say "Apples and oranges", or something.



Louis-954 said:


> Why would a villain help the main character? Not only help but save his life.



He's not a one-note Dick Dastardly villian.

He's more of a supporting character now, actually.

But if somebody asked me if he was a minor villian, I'd say that he was.

I could easily see him supporting Luffy's death if it saved his own ass.

And again, what his villiany has to do with anything eludes me completely.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Buggy's relationship with Luffy is nothing like that.



Well my part on this discussion ends here.
My knowledge about OP is limited.
Don't want to be Biased here.
Have fun.



Cheeky said:


> I think you were meaning to say "Apples and oranges", or something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, you are right that example is a better one.
I did not knew he was reintroduced, that just proves my lack of knowledge about the OP manga.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Well my part on this discussion ends here.
> *My knowledge about OP is limited.
> Don't want to be Biased here.*


Thank you.


----------



## Silver (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis soloing the thread


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> See my above post. They team up for 2 whole arcs and he even saves Luffy and Jimbei. Luffy has even come to think of him as a friend.


Luffy is also notably naive. Buggy has his own motives and those aligned with Luffy's, whom Buggy was using to his benefit. It might place him as a hero or at least not a villain in your eyes but I guess a pirate themed show is going to have a dodgy moral compass.


----------



## Cheeky (Feb 24, 2013)

He's no longer an antagonist, but he's a villain in the sense that he is a typically bad person.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Silver said:


> Louis soloing the thread



What a constructive opinion.
This added so much to the discussion.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Why is this sill open.

Kishi wants to start a new story.

Oda is enjoying his current story.

That should be the end of this thread.


----------



## lazer (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Mr.2 Bon Clay isn't a villain or a clown. He's an Okama and a Strawhat ally.



Argh!!  you just spoiled the shit out of me! bro, i'm on episode 105 where mr 2 is in cahoots crocodile



Louis-954 said:


> Anyway, I hope you read my response to your "gumdrops and rainbows" comment on the previous page.



Yeah i read it and i found it funny how the majority of your examples took place after being 500+ chapters deep into the manga 

Let's atleast compare the plot of "naruto" and "one piece" to see if you think it's unfair of me to call one piece full of lollipops and gumdrops, when compared to naruto.

Naruto - A Demon Fox attacked the ninja village Konoha, killing many people. the leader of Konoha, sacrificed his life to seal the demon inside a newborn baby son, Naruto Uzumaki. Konoha regarded Naruto as if he were the demon fox itself and mistreated him throughout most of his childhood. Due to the prejudice and loneliness he suffered in his childhood, Naruto developed a craving for acknowledgement. In order to achieve this, Naruto would pull pranks all around the village and even going far as strive for the title of Hokage. 

One Piece - The King of the Pirates called Gol D. Roger gets executed. Just before his death, Roger announces that his treasure, the One Piece, will be up for the taking. This caused the Great Pirate Era where countless pirates set out to the Grand Line to look for the treasure. Monkey D. Luffy, a young pirate inspired by his childhood idol and powerful pirate Red Haired Shanks, has since set off on a journey from the East Blue Ocean to succeed Roger and find the legendary treasure.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Why is this sill open.
> 
> Kishi wants to start a new story.
> 
> ...



Of the few OP mangas that I read what I enjoyed most was the Q&A at the end.
Don't know if he still does it.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> He's no longer an antagonist, but he's a villain in the sense that he is a typically bad person.



Alignment by circumstance, essentially. I guess I tend to label villain or hero depending on actions rather than position, or something like that. I don't think Buggy has gone through any "change of heart" since the beginning, though he's been shown to be more complex than he originally appeared.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Luffy is also notably naive. Buggy has his own motives and those aligned  with Luffy's, whom Buggy was using to his benefit. It might place him  as a hero or at least not a villain in your eyes but* I guess a pirate  themed show is going to have a dodgy moral compass.*


You're absolutely right. Luffy himself outright says he's not a hero and his morality has been called into question on more than one occasion. Such as when he led the mass break out of the worlds greatest prison that houses some of the most heinous villains to ever walk earth all so he could save the life of his brother. The safety of others wasn't even on the backburners of his mind. Then there is that incident on Skypiea where he and his crew made off with gold that wasn't theirs. 

You can tell who the truly evil motherfuckers are in One Piece, and Buggy does not fall under that category. Arlong, Don Krieg, Captain Kuro, Enel, Hody Jones, Caesar Clown, the Tenryuubito, Spandam, Donquixote Doflamingo... Now they are true evil, no question about it.



> Yeah i read it and i found it funny how the majority of your examples took place after being 500+ chapters deep into the manga


Would you like some earlier examples? I have a ton of them.



> *et's atleast compare the plot of "naruto" and "one piece" to see if you  think it's unfair of me to call one piece full of lollipops and  gumdrops, when compared to naruto.*
> 
> Naruto - A Demon Fox attacked the ninja village Konoha, killing many  people. the leader of Konoha, sacrificed his life to seal the demon  inside a newborn baby son, Naruto Uzumaki. Konoha regarded Naruto as if  he were the demon fox itself and mistreated him throughout most of his  childhood. Due to the prejudice and loneliness he suffered in his  childhood, Naruto developed a craving for acknowledgement. In order to  achieve this, Naruto would pull pranks all around the village and even  going far as strive for the title of Hokage.
> 
> One Piece - The King of the Pirates called Gol D. Roger gets executed.  Just before his death, Roger announces that his treasure, the One Piece,  will be up for the taking. This caused the Great Pirate Era where  countless pirates set out to the Grand Line to look for the treasure.  Monkey D. Luffy, a young pirate inspired by his childhood idol and  powerful pirate Red Haired Shanks, has since set off on a journey from  the East Blue Ocean to succeed Roger and find the legendary treasure.


This is a classic example of judging a book by its cover. With all due respect your statement was ignorant and grossly uninformed.

And I apologize for spoiling you. Truly. I was unaware that you were currently reading/watching the series.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> You're absolutely right. Luffy himself outright says he's not a hero and his morality has been called into question on more than one occasion. Such as when he led the mass break out of the worlds greatest prison that houses some of the most heinous villains to ever walk earth all so he could save the life of his brother. The safety of others wasn't even on the backburners of his mind. Then there is that incident on Skypiea where he and his crew made off with gold that wasn't theirs.
> 
> You can tell who the truly evil motherfuckers are in One Piece, and Buggy does not fall under that category. Arlong, Don Krieg, Captain Kuro, Enel, Hody Jones, Caesar Clown, the Tenryuubito, Spandam, Donquixote Doflamingo... Now they are true evil, no question about it.


Yeah, that's true enough. Buggy is definitely tiers beneath them when it comes to villainy.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Btw did Oda gave Nami's 3 sizes?


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Sete said:


> Btw did Oda give Nami's 3 sizes?


Character development. Massive, jiggling, character development.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Corporal said:


> Character development. Massive, jiggling, character development.



I have a friend that reads OP and he said that it was a massive jiggling char development after the TS.
Not a bad thing.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Yeah i read it and i found it funny how the majority of your examples took place after being 500+ chapters deep into the manga


These posts will contain spoilers.





^ Knuckles embedded in the dudes face.

Luffy breaking a poor bastards face.


One Piece is not "rainbows and gumdrops".


----------



## PureWIN (Feb 24, 2013)

I still can't  get over CC's fucking face in that last image. Oh my god.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

^ Only happens in childrens manga.

How about Eustass Kid crucifying pirates and impaling a metal spike into their captains chest?

Pretty G-rated if you ask me.


----------



## Magician (Feb 24, 2013)

Some more examples of violence in early One Piece


----------



## Sarry (Feb 24, 2013)

Ugh...these stupid comparisons go nowhere incredibly fast. 

Naruto is Naruto and OP is OP. Both have strengths and both have weaknesses. As can be seen in this poor thread: there are some who like OP more than Naruto and others who like Naruto over OP. 

Each of the three big mangas have their flair and unique reading style. 
If you want to see what would happen if Oda wrote Naruto, take OP and replace Pirates by Ninjas, and you'd have your answer. 
Same if Kishi wrote OP, take Naruto and replace ninjas with Pirates...


All this wanking and dick waving competition is lame....


----------



## Addy (Feb 24, 2013)

there would be development for side characters. that is what i remember when i read some of one piece. 

however, there is "too much going around" if that makes any sense? 

idk why but i always thought that several one piece chapters could have been expanded to at least 30/50 pages which could be a bad thing to someone like me who dropped OP because of this.


----------



## Black☆Star (Feb 24, 2013)

The manga would be infinitely better


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (Feb 24, 2013)

Nitharad said:


> Fun question !
> 
> So :
> 
> ...



Yeah, that's how Naruto started out. It was established early on that jutsus had strengths and weaknesses, that lower-rank jutsus could be used more freely with the expense of chakra (which used to be much more limited) and that higher-ranking jutsus were more powerful but had risks which more-less made them trump cards. That however started to change soon after Pt.2 started where the limit of chakra pools started to become plot-related and high-ranking jutsus could be thrown around like dodgeballs without any risk or drawback. 

I miss that.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> - *NOBODY DIES EVER*, meaning all of Akatsuki would still be alive. (Ace and Whitebeard being the exception that proves the rule)


Vergo, Monet, Shura, Roger, Bellemere, John Giant, Saul, Rouge, Dr.Hiruluk, Tom, the entire population of Ohara, Kuina, Higuma the Bear, Norland, Calgara, Fisher Tiger, Queen Otohime, Usopp's Mom(forget her name), Cindry, Sabo, Rumbar Pirates and their captain Yorki, Brooke(though he revived), and Enel(revived himself as well).


----------



## HoriMaori (Feb 24, 2013)

Thread: Tobi wouldn't have been Obito


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

HoriMaori said:


> Thread: Tobi wouldn't have been Obito



But I thought people said there would be more foreshadowing.


----------



## Addy (Feb 24, 2013)

HoriMaori said:


> Thread: Tobi wouldn't have been Obito



idk if oda is any good, but he would refer to obito as the "masked man" or "madara", drop the "he was acting stupid" act that served no purpose other than shock value, and most importantly......... foreshadowing. idk, something like kakashi thinking tobi was obito because of his kamui. kakashi being on missions and randomly seeing weird  things through his other sharingan  from now and then like obito was able to see through kakashi's sharingan. for example, he sees rin's grave now and then for no reason or itachi/other akatsuki members........... all that way back in the zabuza arc. that ALONE, would have been an awesome subplot that would make fans speculate for the next 10 years even before tobi was introduced.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Feb 24, 2013)

There would be moments where Naruto seriously _draaaaaaaags_ but then suddenly you'll have this period of epic-ness enough to keep you hooked.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Sabo isn't dead. And this thread has gone on too long. Allow me to bring out my condescending side and simply declare that One Piece is far superior to Naruto and anyone who thinks otherwise has terrible taste.


----------



## Sarry (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> Sabo isn't dead. And this thread has gone on too long. Allow me to bring out my condescending side and *simply declare that One Piece is far superior* to Naruto and anyone who thinks otherwise has terrible taste.



Eh, that's not true. 

Both Naruto and OP are equally good and bad. Thinking one is better than the other is rather childish.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

Addy said:


> idk if oda is any good, but he would refer to obito as the "masked man" or "madara", drop the "he was acting stupid" act that served no purpose other than shock value


Obito and Zetsu kept up the act at all times so that nobody would suspect them. As an idiot Tobi managed to keep everybody from viewing him with a critical eye, and it even worked within the fandom itself. Him acting dumb is honestly one of my favorite twists in the series and if Oda would actually cut that element out(which I've never really seen in his work) that would be terrible.



> and most importantly......... foreshadowing.


As I probably did a bad job of bringing up in my last post, Tobito hints were sprinkled throughout the show. 



> idk, something like kakashi thinking tobi was obito because of his kamui.


But....
1. That's not foreshadowing, that's a blatant reveal.
2. Kakashi's Kamui was brought up early on as a plot device and Tobi was later revealed to use the same/similar dimensional move later discovered to be the same. It WAS foreshadowing.



> kakashi being on missions and randomly seeing weird  things through his other sharingan  from now and then like obito was able to see through kakashi's sharingan. for example, he sees rin's grave now and then for no reason or itachi/other akatsuki members...........


IDK, it seems like it would be a bit out of place for the Naruto universe.



> all that way back in the zabuza arc. that ALONE, would have been an awesome subplot that would make fans speculate for the next 10 years even before tobi was introduced.


Haha, well if you want to get technical, the Tobito plot DID begin in Land of Waves arc when Kakashi turned to his genin and said, "I won't let my comrades die." This line along with his Sharingan sparked questioning about his past, which was later built up when Kakashi was remembering Obito during the 3rd's funeral, etc.

The problem I think a good deal of fans and especially haters have is that they ask for foreshadowing or buildup when there was a lot of it that they just ignored. The Tobito story was handled fine on its own - the biggest issue is that the fandom was too big and the candidates so few that the right answer was deduced far too early.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

> Eh, that's not true.



Completely true.


> Both Naruto and OP are equally good and bad. Thinking one is better than the other is rather childish.



No. That's cute though.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 24, 2013)

Naruto has gotten progressively worse over time. It started out better than OP, and had just as much potential but it is clear now that Kishi just didn't have the ability to harness the potential of his story the way Oda has with One Piece. That all boils down to their drive. Oda is driven, motivated. He loves what he's doing and he's having fun with One Piece, he can see himself doing it another decade. In contrast Kishi seems tired, weary, ready to put it to rest and this begins to reflect in the quality of his work.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

People here probably think I started reading One Piece first. Nope. I watched the horrible English dub version and I thought it was just complete and utter shit. So I joined the forum in 2007 shortly after I caught up with the Naruto manga. I thought it was the best manga ever written at the time. Around 2010, when I went to Africa, I had nothing to do but read manga, and after seeing a poll on the forum where 60% of the users favoured One Piece over Naruto, I figured I'd give it another chance.

I watched the anime up until the end of the Crocodile arc starting from when Ace arrived in the anime. When Luffy punched Crocodile to the opera music in the background I was instnantly hooked. But the anime was too long so starting from the ending of Crocodiles defeat I simply read it.

Then I read Water 7 and Enies Lobby and I forever changed my mind about One Piece and Naruto. One Piece is just far superior.


----------



## Shinryu (Feb 24, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Naruto has gotten progressively worse over time. *It started out better than OP*, and had just as much potential but it is clear now that Kishi just didn't have the ability to harness the potential of his story the way Oda has with One Piece. That all boils down to their drive. Oda is driven, motivated. He loves what he's doing and he's having fun with One Piece, he can see himself doing it another decade. In contrast Kishi seems tired, weary, ready to put it to rest and this begins to reflect in the quality of his work.



No just no 

agree with the rest of the post Kishi should have planned the entire manga before writing it like Oda


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Naruto _did _start out better though. The beginning of One Piece was good but the end of the Wave arc when Haku died for Zabuza and when Zabuza made the devil face at Gato...oh lord.


----------



## Shinryu (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> Naruto _did _start out better though. The beginning of One Piece was good but the end of the Wave arc when Haku died for Zabuza and when Zabuza made the devil face at Gato...oh lord.



Arlong Arc is better than that anyway 

ON TOPIC:It would be great


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

I wonder where Kubo stands in all this. 

Though I'm pretty sure Land of Waves>>Bleach entirely.


----------



## galvao18 (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Vergo, Monet, Shura, Roger, Bellemere, John Giant, Saul, Rouge, Dr.Hiruluk, Tom, the entire population of Ohara, Kuina, Higuma the Bear, Norland, Calgara, Fisher Tiger, Queen Otohime, Usopp's Mom(forget her name), Cindry, Sabo, Rumbar Pirates and their captain Yorki, Brooke(though he revived), and Enel(revived himself as well).



90% of these characters are  /  

plus, shura is still alive, and john giant fate is unknown

with that said though, i do agree on OP > Naruto, although i like naruto more :WOW


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Feb 24, 2013)

Naruto >>>>>> One piece.

Everyone probably agrees on that.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> shura is still alive,


Reject Dial stopped Enel's heart. Enel is leaps and bounds stronger than Shura. No way could Shura survive that.



> john giant


Quaked in the chest by Whitebeard and then got Ryusei Kazan'd by Akainu and was never seen again. He's gone.



> Naruto >>>>>> One piece.
> 
> Everyone probably agrees on that.


In your dreams maybe.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Naruto >>>>>> One piece.
> 
> Everyone probably agrees on that.



             .


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

> Naruto >>>>>> One piece.
> 
> Everyone probably agrees on that.



There was a poll on the Library Floor 2 or whatever it's called and 60% preferred One Piece. Although majority preference isn't really an indication that something is better, this is just factually wrong when it comes to this forum.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Reject Dial stopped Enel's heart. Enel is leaps and bounds stronger than Shura. No way could Shura survive that.
> 
> Quaked in the chest by Whitebeard and then got Ryusei Kazan'd by Akainu and was never seen again. He's gone.
> 
> ...



Didn't the same happen with Pell? 

He survived a nuke that can take out a whole country.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Someone be a bro and find that poll for me. It's old. Like 2009 old.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Didn't the same happen with Pell?
> 
> He survived a nuke that can take out a whole country.


Association Fallacy.


----------



## Rios (Feb 24, 2013)

I wouldnt have reading it because I cant stand Oda's art style. Hell, friggin Detective Conan and its uninspired art appeals to me more than One Piece.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

And I don't even know how you could possibly believe that Naruto is anything above average at this point. Toriko is also much better than Naruto too.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Also 13 pages. Mods what the fuck?


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> And I don't even know how you could possibly believe that Naruto is anything above average at this point. Toriko is also much better than Naruto too.



Toriko is still fresh and new and is only in the 200 range.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

And? It's still better.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> I wouldnt have reading it because I cant  stand Oda's art style. Hell, friggin Detective Conan and its uninspired  art appeals to me more than One Piece.






One Piece's art is far from uninspired. Uninspired is all of your backgrounds being trees and barren desert(Kishi). Oda actually puts work in, as you can see.


----------



## Zen-aku (Feb 24, 2013)

ughhh stop talking about one piece in the Kohona library!


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> Also 13 pages. Mods what the fuck?


The thread itself shouldn't really suffer for a bunch of Irukas repeatedly saying, "I LIKE ONE PIECE".


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> And? It's still better.


It's better than HST in general.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

> ughhh stop talking about one piece in the Kohona library!



TOO LATE <3


----------



## Rios (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> One Piece's art is far from uninspired. Uninspired is all of your backgrounds being trees and barren desert(Kishi). Oda actually puts work in, as you can see.



Nobody cares about backgrounds when everybody is so ugly.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

> It's better than HST in general.



The term HST is washed out. Toriko should be in the HST with One Piece and Naruto.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

> Nobody cares about backgrounds when everybody is so ugly.



don't be a bishie ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Nobody cares about backgrounds when everybody is so ugly.


So every character in the series needs to look like a bishie in order for you to enjoy it?


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

bishie faggotry got old when i grew pubes


----------



## galvao18 (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Reject Dial stopped Enel's heart. Enel is leaps and bounds stronger than Shura. No way could Shura survive that.


Chapter 300 implies he still alive



Louis-954 said:


> Quaked in the chest by Whitebeard and then got Ryusei Kazan'd by Akainu and was never seen again. He's gone.






-Dragon- said:


> Though I'm pretty sure Land of Waves>>Bleach entirely.



SS arc dude.... SS arc...


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> The term HST is washed out. Toriko should be in the HST with One Piece and Naruto.



The name is not washed out considering that the three series that were classified under it are still running.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

*Spoiler*: _naruto bishie is sexy though_ 




(keep saying bishie it will become true, especially when a series just has better looking characters)


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

> The name is not washed out considering that the three series that were classified under it are still running.



Yes it is washed out because Bleach is far from holy. Neither is Naruto, but if the name needs to be maintained, we need to add something as filler.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Chapter 300 implies he still alive


It shows him laid the fuck out on the ground. The Reject he took was worse than Enel's, dude is dead. Unless you really mean to tell me that Shura is more durable than Enel.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis...
Why are you still trying?


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Louis...
> Why are you still trying?


I'm compelled to correct ignorance.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

galvao18 said:


> Chapter 300 implies he still alive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's nothing special about the SS arc besides it following the Shonen path. Main Character Loses>>Trains>>Power up>>Beats Villain of the Arc. The only decent thing was Aizen's scheme. 

The beginning arcs of both Naruto and OP didn't follow the Shonen Path.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

OP's team building start is pretty basic even if it isn't the typical route for shonen(as One Piece is a large deviation from standard shonen in the first place. its essentially the series' inspiration, dragon ball, with heavy emphasis on the journey).

And a stereotypical premise doesn't really phase me so long as it's executed well.


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

Soul Society arc was pretty good for the fact that we never saw the Aizen thing coming. Then came the arrancar arc....


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> Yes it is washed out because Bleach is far from holy. Neither is Naruto, but if the name needs to be maintained, we need to add something as filler.


The name was created when the three series were at their prime after all.



Though Bleach never did deserve the name in the first place. Should have been HXH.


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> Sabo isn't dead. And this thread has gone on too long. *Allow me to bring out my condescending side and simply declare that One Piece is far superior to Naruto* and anyone who thinks otherwise has terrible taste.


Your opinion.
I can say exactly the same thing even without bringing out my condescending side.
So you like OP more?
Good for you.
Your tastes are not universal truths.
*In my opinion* Naruto is better.
Next will you be pointing a gun to my head and forcing me to like OP more?


----------



## Corporal (Feb 24, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> The name was created when the three series were at their prime after all.
> 
> 
> 
> Though Bleach never did deserve the name in the first place. Should have been HXH.



Pretty sure the name emerged from ratings and not the series' actual self-worth.


----------



## Eskimo (Feb 24, 2013)

Threads like this are dumb on so many levels...
But I'll say one thing, you can bet your ass that Oda would have expanded the naruto universe far more before the story narrowed in on Sasuke and Akatsuki. In my opinion that's the main mistake Kishi made which caused naruto to drop off so much after the great start it had in part 1.


----------



## ZeroWolf123 (Feb 24, 2013)

-The konoha 11 would actually matter.
-Obito would not be a terrible villian
-The timeskip would actually be good with lots of improvements and new things.
-Uchihas wouldn't take over half the manga.
-Less senju DNA hoeing 
-Jutsus would actually be thought out instead of losing it's sense of strategy.

Itd be a better Manga in general


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

Eskimo said:


> Threads like this are dumb on so many levels...
> But I'll say one thing, you can bet your ass that Oda would have expanded the naruto universe far more before the story narrowed in on Sasuke and Akatsuki. In my opinion that's the main mistake Kishi made which caused naruto to drop off so much after the great start it had in part 1.



And this talk about OP on Konoha Library.
Thank you for the visit go back to your designated area, you already gave spoilers to some peeps here.
And why Obito is a terrible Villain?
His reason is at least as good as to be the pirate King or find the one piece.
Or Zoro wanting to be the best swordsman on the world because he promised a dead girl...


----------



## galvao18 (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> It shows him laid the fuck out on the ground. The Reject he took was worse than Enel's, dude is dead. Unless you really mean to tell me that Shura is more durable than Enel.



of course not, but this is OP we are talking about, i mean, there is a reason even the wikia doesn't classifies him as dead.



Louis-954 said:


> I'm compelled to correct ignorance.


2 minutes of harmless debate and i'm already been called ignorant, , forget it then dude, have it your way...


-Dragon- said:


> There's nothing special about the SS arc besides it following the Shonen path. Main Character Loses>>Trains>>Power up>>Beats Villain of the Arc. The only decent thing was Aizen's scheme.
> 
> The beginning arcs of both Naruto and OP didn't follow the Shonen Path.





αce said:


> Soul Society arc was pretty good for the fact that we never saw the Aizen thing coming. Then came the arrancar arc....


Indeed, the best part of the SS arc was aizen scheme, also the ichiruki fanservice , but the rest of the arc, even if it was not all that original, was epic enough , just my two centz though


----------



## Sete (Feb 24, 2013)

And bleach now...
This will turn out into a fandom war and i really dont want any more part in it.
To each its own.
I will enjoy Naruto.
You can enjoy whatever Manga you like, its a free world and i will not be condescendingly imposing my opinion on other people.
Cya peeps.


----------



## galvao18 (Feb 24, 2013)

Eskimo said:


> Threads like this are dumb on so many levels...
> But I'll say one thing, you can bet your ass that Oda would have expanded the naruto universe far more before the story narrowed in on Sasuke and Akatsuki. In my opinion that's the main mistake Kishi made which caused naruto to drop off so much after the great start it had in part 1.



agreed, when i first read naruto, i though we were going to see like the entire naruto world or something  , all those continent and countries, forbidden places, mystical lands and all that  

oh well...


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Feb 24, 2013)

I think the better question is: What if Oda was Kishimoto's editor?

Oda has built-in discontinuity in the form of islands and uses it.

Kishimoto has built-in discontinuity in the form of ninja missions and neglects it.

Oda has cover art that's connected to the story.

Kishimoto has cover art that is sometimes disconnected from the story, and sometimes even better than the actual story.

 There's an odd similarity between Sasuke and the One Piece: everyone wants/desires it. 


Wow.

Loved the image competition, btw.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> i know that the wikia is not the most reliable source but you got adimit  his fate is at least ambiguous, especially because we already saw that  kind of stuff happening in OP before.


Sorry. Seems we interpret if differently. A battle worn Wiper killed Enel with it. I don't see how it's possible for Shura, who is much weaker, to have survived it. Not only did he take the Reject Dial like Enel did, but unlike Enel he had the misfortune to also crash into the ground from about 7 stories up.


----------



## galvao18 (Feb 24, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Sorry. Seems we interpret if differently. A battle worn Wiper killed Enel with it. I don't see how it's possible for Shura, who is much weaker, to have survived it. Not only did he take the Reject Dial like Enel did, but unlike Enel he had the misfortune to also crash into the ground from about 7 stories up.



i do see your point friend, believe me, i do. All i am saying is that no one is dead in OP (*for me*) unless its explicitly confirmed, experience taught me so 

regardless, even if we put shura aside here, it doesnt change the fact that 90% of the characters you mentioned are posthumous characters. Oda doesnt like to kill his chars, even if they are villians.


----------



## raizen28 (Feb 24, 2013)




----------



## Kensei13 (Feb 24, 2013)

Less fighting and more adventure and the missions.

Looney Toon art

Fewer dragged out flashback- Kishi abuses the use of flashbacks. The latest chapter ended with a flashback within a flashback.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 24, 2013)

> Looney Toon art


This here is proof that you haven't read past chapter 10.


Anyone who hasn't read both series really shouldn't be commenting on what kind of Mangaka Oda is. Your uninformed opinions means less than nothing.


----------



## Magician (Feb 24, 2013)

15 pages


----------



## αce (Feb 24, 2013)

15 pages
mods doing their jobs


----------



## galvao18 (Feb 24, 2013)

Kensei13 said:


> Looney Toon art





Fucking Donald Duck


----------



## Rikudou No Sennin (Feb 24, 2013)

I started Naruto in 2006 and guess when did I start reading OP? 2012. Overall, OP is far far far superior in everything in Naruto. It's just that I love the Ninja & Jutsu stuff more. But OP is my favorite manga.


----------



## Magician (Feb 24, 2013)

αce said:


> 15 pages
> mods doing their jobs



Like always


----------



## PureWIN (Feb 25, 2013)

Kishi is better at world building. The Narutoverse is structured and detailed on how its politics work and villages are organized, etc. The OPverse is seemingly random. Any random shit can appear as part of the adventure. This makes predicting anything in the story difficult.

Oda excels at execution. He uses what he has and builds a fantastic story. Kishi had so many potential plotlines and they all went to waste.


----------



## AoshiKun (Feb 25, 2013)

Rikudou No Sennin said:


> I started Naruto in 2006 and guess when did I start reading OP? 2012. Overall, OP is far far far superior in everything in Naruto. It's just that I love the Ninja & Jutsu stuff more. But OP is my favorite manga.


We're almost twins bro!
I started Naruto in 2004 and OP last year and got the same impression as you: OP is way better.


----------



## Totsuka Blitz (Feb 25, 2013)

One Piece is a nice manga. I sometimes get the feeling the author tends to stretch things out. Like the current arc the focus on kids (whom i personally find annoying), the entire fisherman arc. I really like Zoro and find Luffy pretty damn boring and annoying. Water 7 and Impel Down are my favorite arcs.

I am not sure why OP fans get very defensive about any criticism about Oda. If you truly enjoy reading any series, you should really not be bothered about any negatives. Naruto was my first manga and my favorite manga. I know Kishi has his own shortcomings like I felt the entire Edo tensei part at beginning of war was a drag or Naruto hyper ventilating about Sasuke but I still enjoy reading the manga every week.

I will say that if Oda did draw Naruto, all women would be well endowed (looking at you Sakura)


----------



## Kensei13 (Feb 25, 2013)

galvao18 said:


> Fucking Donald Duck



LOL Good find.


----------



## Seraphiel (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis do you know who posted that huge ass pic of all the amazing OP spreads.

That alone would put thee art argument to rest.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2013)

Should ask what if Togashi wrote Naruto too (no hiatuses). Although I have a feeling that a lot of the people that think Naruto is the top shit have never read any of Togashi's manga.


----------



## Seraphiel (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Should ask what if Togashi wrote Naruto too (no hiatuses). Although I have a feeling that a lot of the people that think Naruto is the top shit have never read any of Togashi's manga.



Depends, Chimera Ant arc in HxH was dreadful if you ask me. Other than that I don't have many complaints.


----------



## Octus (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Should ask what if Togashi wrote Naruto too (no hiatuses). Although I have a feeling that a lot of the people that think Naruto is the top shit have never read any of Togashi's manga.



Dat Togashi        YuYu Hakusho will forever remain as my favorite series.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Should ask what if Togashi wrote Naruto too (no hiatuses). Although I have a feeling that a lot of the people that think Naruto is the top shit have never read any of Togashi's manga.



Hashirama's sage summon would have Mickey Mouse hands.

*Spoiler*: __ 









Or Naruto would die in the first episode to come back as a fox spirit and the work would be the epitome of mediocrity.


----------



## Pain In The Ass (Feb 25, 2013)

Kishi and Oda should stick to writing their own manga. To each their own, some people will like Naruto more, some OP, can't be helped. To me, Oda is doing a great job writing his manga, Kishi is doing a good job with a few bumps along the way.


----------



## iJutsu (Feb 25, 2013)

I'd never read unless the big three boss villains were involved. But then all 3 completely disappear for no apparent reason halfway through and then there's no more point in reading it.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Seraphiel said:


> Louis do you know who posted that huge ass pic of all the amazing OP spreads.
> 
> *That alone would put thee art argument to rest.*



Nope.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> I'd never read unless the big three boss villains were involved. But then all 3 completely disappear for no apparent reason halfway through and then there's no more point in reading it.


Obito, Sasuke, and Madara are all basically the same character with minor differences. No two villains in OP are the same. Donquixote Doflamingo, Akainu, Blackbeard > Those three.


----------



## Zeno (Feb 25, 2013)

If Oda wrote Naruto we'd still be in part 1. True story.


----------



## Rios (Feb 25, 2013)




----------



## DonutKid (Feb 25, 2013)

naruto would explore the world with his nakamas in search of 'Two Pieces'...


*Spoiler*: __ 



just to find out that 'Two Pieces' are actually the sword of totsuka and yata mirror, which both are in possession of a legendary man who they have to overcome to acquire... 


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## ?Sharingan Squid? (Feb 25, 2013)

Unbelievably, infinitely, incontinentally better.


----------



## emili (Feb 25, 2013)

What if Oda write Naruto?


*Spoiler*: __ 



I won't read it!


----------



## Girl I don't care (Feb 25, 2013)

Who's Oda.                  .


----------



## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Feb 25, 2013)

if oda wrote naruto i would definetly not read it. why? because it would be hard to take any of the characters seriously. the characters are so funny looking and have too much of a cartoonish appeareance. it would be hard as fuck to take toony-madara serious. and all i do is laugh or get irratated at repetative humor which is why i stopped reading it.

but i still think one piece has an overall better plot and character development than naruto.


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Feb 25, 2013)

I looked at OP anime and their power level is not on the same level as Naruto. White Beard is the most powerful and he will lose against most of Low Kage characters. Kakashi can solo the whole OP universe with Kyuubi chakra.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

Great Waterfall Technique



Louis-954 said:


> Obito, Sasuke, and Madara are all basically the same character with minor differences. No two villains in OP are the same. Donquixote Doflamingo, Akainu, Blackbeard > Those three.



Sasuke and Obito have no notable links beyond apprenticeship and Madara's logic has yet to be fully fleshed out. Also Sasuke isn't a villain so the third spot would be Orochimaru, whose motivation hasn't been revealed yet. And I'm guessing there's something since Kishi goes the route of humanizations with the major villains while Oda has a lot of his big bads for personality purposes.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> I looked at OP anime and their power level is not on the same level as Naruto. White Beard is the most powerful and he will lose against most of Low Kage characters. Kakashi can solo the whole OP universe with Kyuubi chakra.


1. What do power levels have to do with the quality of the series?

2. Whitebeard is not the strongest character in the series. Kaidou is the most powerful creature in the series and Blackbeard is stronger as well just to name two. 

3. Kakashi would be a mid tier in One Piece.

For example. Your pussy 3rd Raikage died from *fighting fodder* after *3 days and nights.*


While* Aokiji and Akainu fought for 10 days and nights without food, water, or rest changing the face and climate of an entire island in the process.* Oh, and neither pussied out and died. The aftermath of their fight makes valley of of the end look like a fucking sandbox in comparison.





Trafalgar Law and Mihawk also do shit like this *casually.
*

Kakashi ain't doing jack shit to them, sorry.

Ace and Jimbei also had a nonstop 5 day fight to a draw.



No one in Naruto has that kind of stamina.


----------



## Csdabest (Feb 25, 2013)

I rather have kubo write the story. Because with Kubo we can be sure for some epic trolls. Unexpected left wing blind siding trolls.


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Feb 25, 2013)

All the women would look similar, characters would rarely die thus drastically reducing the stakes, it would attempt way more lame jokes, the pacing would be slow as fuck, the art would be cluttered and unclear, and the villains would be ugly as fuck. Yup, it would be a much worse manga.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> All the women would look similar,  characters would rarely die thus drastically reducing the stakes, it  would attempt way more lame jokes, the pacing would be slow as fuck, the  art would be cluttered and unclear, and the villains would be ugly as  fuck. Yup, it would be a much worse manga.


One Piece is the most successful manga ever written.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Feb 25, 2013)

SharkBomb 4 said:


> All the women would look similar, characters would rarely die thus drastically reducing the stakes, it would attempt way more lame jokes, the pacing would be slow as fuck, the art would be cluttered and unclear, and the villains would be ugly as fuck. Yup, it would be a much worse manga.



Truer words were never spoken in regards to this subject.

One good thing about Naruto is that, even though the art is plain, it is at least clear.




Louis-954 said:


> One Piece is the most successful manga ever written.



This is one of the times you wish we still had ""

Seriously ? 

One piece tardism is a phenomenon for me. I really can't understand it. Such mediocre manga being liked by so many...
Well, when you think about it, it actually makes sense


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> One Piece is the most successful manga ever written.



Ya because it's about pirates and they can get away with most the stuff I listed. The slower pace makes sense for a giant world with oceans to cross, the ugly villains make sense since they're all pirates, the lack of death works due to an actual police force, the humor works because there's far more levity behind pirate mythology.

But for ninjas? Literal assassins? People who are raised to kill? No way in fuck would Oda's style work.

However, the women in OP do look too similar and the art is way too cluttered. Also, a little more deaths and a bit less lame jokes would go a long way. Naruto has bad jokes too but there are much fewer of them.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> One good thing about Naruto is that, even though the art is plain, it is at least clear.


There is nothing unclear about One Piece. Unless you're blind? o.o



> This is one of the times you wish we still had ""
> 
> Seriously ?


Don't take my word for it. Do a simple Google search.



> *However, the women in OP do look too similar* and the art is way too  cluttered. Also, a little more deaths and a bit less lame jokes would go  a long way. Naruto has bad jokes too but there are much fewer of them.













Sure they do...


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2013)

Corporal said:


> Hashirama's sage summon would have Mickey Mouse hands.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Thanks for proving my point about you guys. Although Naruto being anything mediocre would be a hell of alot better than the shitpile it is now.


----------



## The Inevitable Llama (Feb 25, 2013)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> White Beard is the most powerful and he will lose against most of Low Kage characters. Kakashi can solo the whole OP universe with Kyuubi chakra.



No. Just no

Though I'm fairly sure you're trolling


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

SharkBomb 4 said:


> All the women would look similar


Very few and often minor ones.



> characters would rarely die thus drastically reducing the stakes


True enough.



> it would attempt way more lame jokes


I feel like this is practically a trademark of most big anime titles, including Naruto. Though I have noticed that Naruto does it less in comparison and at least stops with the jokes at more intense points.



> the pacing would be slow as fuck


Slow pacing isn't exactly bad. I find the pace relaxing.



> the art would be cluttered and unclear


That's only a major thing during extreme points of conflict where multiple parties arrive, and in my opinion it's to simply capitalize off of how hectic the situation has become.



> and the villains would be ugly as fuck


OP villains range from disgusting to beautiful, but the disgusting ones are more memorable and characters that people who haven't read the series will easily be able to see as villains.



> Ya because it's about pirates and they can get away with most the stuff I listed.
> But for ninjas? Literal assassins? People who are raised to kill? No way in fuck would Oda's style work.


Oda's pirates are not pirates and Kishi's ninjas are not ninjas. They've made them work, and I think my first post gave a pretty good explanation on how Oda would make ninjas/Naruto work.




Seto Kaiba said:


> Thanks for proving my point about you guys. Although Naruto being anything mediocre would be a hell of alot better than the shitpile it is now.


Yes, Seto Kaiba of Yugioh, I obviously have terrible taste, those hands if not the entire scene and many others in the work obviously aren't terribly drawn, I obviously think Naruto is the absolute pinnacle, and YH is definitely far more than the generic shonen.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2013)

A high body count, generic anime design, inflated PLs,  and needless angst doesn't make a good manga.


----------



## Grendel (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> There is nothing unclear about One Piece. Unless you're blind? o.o
> 
> Don't take my word for it. Do a simple Google search.
> 
> ...



Dude we get it you like Oda's aristic style...but continually posting scans that you think one way about and others disagree isn't proving your point at all...people have different opinions/taste...

I like both series but personally I don't think odas style would work as well with naruto as it has with op...

I have been reading naruto way longer than I have op....infact when I started reading OP I went from chapter 1 all the way to beginning of punk hazard in like a 3 month span (job allows me to read a lot)...and even reading op straight through like that I still found it dragging in some places though admittedly epic in others.

For me though I still enjoy naruto more so I don't see oda in anyway being able to increase my enjoyment of naruto...basically its a matter of taste and calling someone's tastes terrible because they don't agree is just...well childish...


----------



## Ubereem (Feb 25, 2013)

The One Piece Mangaka?


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> *Dude we get it you like Oda's aristic style...*but continually posting  scans that you think one way about and others disagree isn't proving  your point at all...people have different opinions/taste...


Do you even know what I posted those links for? Clearly not. Someone said all One Piece females look the same. You are being intellectually dishonest with yourself if you can say with a straight face that any of those characters look remotely similar.



> For me though I still enjoy naruto more so I don't see oda in anyway  being able to increase my enjoyment of naruto...basically its a matter  of taste and* calling someone's tastes terrible because they don't agree  is just...well childish...*


Except I didn't. Read the thread and try again.


----------



## Grendel (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Do you even know what I posted those links for? Clearly not. Someone said all One Piece females look the same. You are being intellectually dishonest with yourself if you can say with a straight face that any of those characters look remotely similar.
> 
> Except I didn't. Read the thread and try again.



The last statement wasn't directed at you...more so others in the thread...infact only the first paragraph was...

And I have read the entire thread and regardless which of your posts I chose to quote you have been posting scans to prove odas not drawing childish characters all thread...I tend to agree with you others don't...and I agree all the females don't look the same though oda does tend to either draw "sexy" females or completely "ugly" females not really an in between. ..

And he does have a much more "sexist" outlook than kishi...more so in feminine appearance (and how male characters treat them based soley on that appearance) than with power though


----------



## C-Moon (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> A high body count, generic anime design, inflated PLs,  and needless angst doesn't make a good manga.



One Piece doesn't appeal to that "crawling in my skin" crowd.


I say fuck them.


----------



## Sarry (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I'm compelled to correct ignorance.



Ignorance about what? about people not buying into  'OP's greatness'?

It is not greater than Naruto's quality. Just because others may regard OP as mediocre doesn't mean they are 'ignorant'. It just means they believe OP isn't as its fans make it to be. 

I've read up till arc after the time skip in One piece. It was in my usual reading routine, but i've dropped it due to lack of interest.

What OP has going for it is the goofy artstyle and the pirate theme. 
What Naruto has going for it is the relatively artstyle, redefined ninja themes, and a closer resemblance to DBZ(power inflation.) 
Bleach is notoriously better at weird yet logical plot-twists, and better looking females(guess what..boobs are Kubo's specialty.)
This whole "ERMAHGAD, OP>>>NARUDO. I IZ CUURIN TEH IGNORNACE" argument is in poor taste. 

Bleach, Naruto and OP are in the same league. They all excel at one thing, and suck at another. 

You want a much better manga, i recommend Sennin mangas like Vinland Saga, Berserk, Slamdunk and Vagabond. They're all better in terms artstyle, and plot


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> Ignorance about what? about people not buying into  'OP's greatness'?


No, about people who haven't read more than 4 chapters coming in here and not knowing what they are talking about.



> It is not greater than Naruto's quality. Just because *others may regard  OP as mediocre doesn't mean they are 'ignorant'.* It just means they  believe OP isn't as its fans make it to be.


It does when they base their opinions off quite literally nothing but a few panels they have seen over the years. If you've read OP and still like Naruto better, fine, but to call One Piece mediocre without ever having read more than a few chapters or really immersing yourself in the story IS being ignorant.



> This whole "ERMAHGAD, OP>>>NARUDO. I IZ CUURIN TEH IGNORNACE" argument is in poor taste.


Clearly you don't know what my argument is at all. Go back and read.



> You want a much better manga, i recommend Sennin mangas like Vinland  Saga, Berserk, Slamdunk and Vagabond. They're all better in terms  artstyle, and plot


I have read them all and in the cases of Berserk, Vinland, and Slam Dunk wholeheartedly agree. Add Ippo to that as well. What does that have to do with this thread? 

P.S. Slam Dunk is not a Seinen.


----------



## galvao18 (Feb 25, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> I rather have kubo write the story. Because with Kubo we can be sure for some epic trolls. Unexpected left wing blind siding trolls.



if kubo were writing naruto, one thing is certain: Katons wouldn't be fodder anymore:







Sarry said:


> You want a much better manga, i recommend Sennin mangas like Vinland Saga, Berserk, Slamdunk and Vagabond. They're all better in terms artstyle, and plot



i got to pick up vinland saga again, shit was so cash


----------



## Sarry (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> *No, about people who haven't read more than 4 chapters coming in here and not knowing what they are talking about.
> *
> It does when they base their opinions off quite literally nothing but a few panels they have seen over the years. If you've read OP and still like Naruto better, fine, but to call One Piece mediocre without ever having read more than a few chapters or really immersing yourself in the story IS being ignorant.


Then let them be in their own world. They want to hate on a manga without reading it, then great for them. Continuing to argue with them just agitates you: everyone in this thread is stuck in their own opinion, even showing random scene from OP won't change it. 

Hell, this thread shouldn't have gone to 13 or 14 pages. But i assume the mods are just having fun reading the comments here... 


> Clearly you don't know what my argument is at all. Go back and read.


I've read enough of your posts, and others such as ace and Kaiba, to get a general view of the Pro-OP in this thread. Note this post is directed towards that group rather than solely you. 


No offense, i hope. 


> I have read them all and in the cases of Berserk, Vinland, and Slam Dunk wholeheartedly agree. Add Ippo to that as well. What does that have to do with this thread?


I've mentioned them mainly because the majority of the people posting in thread don't seem to have known other mangas outside of the big three. That's the feel that i've gotten from reading most of the comments, specifically the ones regard the art style, and quality of the plot. 


> P.S. Slam Dunk is not a Seinen.


Indeed it isn't. But the quality of it feels like Sennin, at least the art. 
Either way, it is a great manga that gets to the point without getting distracted.



galvao18 said:


> i got to pick up vinland saga again, shit was so cash



I wanted to give a single quote from Askeladd or any of Thorkell's moments, but there're too many to pick


----------



## Aeiou (Feb 25, 2013)

We would only be half way.


----------



## Arya Stark (Feb 25, 2013)

OP has different themes and morals then Naruto have so comparison is stupid.

I wouldn't like art, I would find the pace even worse and I wouldn't take the story itself too seriously thus leading less disappointment.

On the other hand I'd enjoy character dynamics a lot more, there would be less strach from the main themes and more exploration on the seconday cast.


----------



## αce (Feb 25, 2013)

>Naruto.


----------



## Sarry (Feb 25, 2013)

Moon~ said:


> OP has different themes and morals then Naruto have so comparison is stupid.
> 
> I wouldn't like art, I would find the pace even worse and I wouldn't take the story itself too seriously thus leading less disappointment.
> 
> On the other hand I'd enjoy character dynamics a lot more, there would be less strach from the main themes and more exploration on the seconday cast.



Pretty much this!


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> 1. What do power levels have to do with the quality of the series?
> 
> 2. Whitebeard is not the strongest character in the series. Kaidou is the most powerful creature in the series and Blackbeard is stronger as well just to name two.
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter how much stamina they have, Kakashi's Kamui > All of OP character.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> It doesn't matter how much stamina they have, Kakashi's Kamui > All of OP character.


He'd be dead before he could activate his MS. Most OP characters could kill Kakashi just by looking in his general direction.

1

Replace the fodder with Kakashi. That's how fast 70% of One Piece characters could end him.

Tell me. What could Kakashi or his Kamui possibly do to a Logia? Do you even know what a Logia is?


----------



## Jagger (Feb 25, 2013)

This thread.


----------



## 1Person (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> He'd be dead before he could activate his MS. Most OP characters could kill Kakashi just by looking in his general direction.
> 
> Tell me. What could Kakashi or his Kamui possibly do to a Logia? Do you even know what a Logia is?



kakashi can use kamui on an area larger that a human body without kyuubi chakra, of course it'd work on logias.

On Topic : One Piece and Naruto are to fairly different series, what works for OP wouldn't work for naruto and vice versa. For example, OP would be boring with kishi's art style and Naruto would be overly cartoonish with Oda's art style. There's really no point in threads like these because naruto by oda wouldn't be naruto.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> kakashi can use kamui on an area larger that a human body without kyuubi chakra, of course it'd work on logias.


Good luck even catching a Logia.


----------



## Jagger (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> One Piece is the most successful manga ever written.


Sorry, but that comes down to opinion and not "facts". I could say Berserk is the best one and you'll disagree and I'll disagree with your opinion and we would start to argue until someone closes the thread.


----------



## 1Person (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Good luck even catching a Logia.


not all logias are speedsters, im sure he'd be able to catch caribou.
Kakashi also has amazing reactions.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> Sorry, *but that comes down to opinion and not "facts".* I could say  Berserk is the best one and you'll disagree and I'll disagree with your  opinion and we would start to argue until someone closes the thread.


Numbers and accolades don't lie. 

and for the record, I think Berserk is better than One Piece. That's my opinion but it doesn't change the *fact* that One Piece is far more successful.

4
[1]





> not all logias are speedsters, im sure* he'd be able to* *catch caribou.*


The weakest one. Impressive xD


----------



## Jagger (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Numbers and accolades don't lie.
> 
> and for the record, I think Berserk is better than One Piece. That's my opinion but it doesn't change the *fact* that One Piece is far more successful.
> 
> ...


Ah...you were talking about sales...I though you were talking about quality. Yeah, I agree. One Piece's sales are very high.


----------



## Cave Jansen (Feb 25, 2013)

If sales were a factor for deciding quality, Naruto would be one of the best manga out there, as it's up there with One Piece too.

And isn't it actually covering more bases in the world? Seeing as it's more popullar than One Piece outside of Japan. It's like comparing the success of a Final Fantasy game to a Dragon Quest/Monster Hunter if you ask me.


----------



## Louis-954 (Feb 25, 2013)

> Ah...you were talking about sales...I though you were talking about quality. Yeah, I agree. One Piece's sales are very high.


I chose my words very carefully. We could argue all day about quality, as you said. So I won't get into that with you. To each their own as far as that is concerned.


----------



## 1Person (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> The weakest one. Impressive xD


He'd also have a fairly easy time with pre gura blackbeard.
just showing that logias aren't kamui proof, but under the right circumstances, he shouldn't technically be able to catch any of them.


----------



## Hatomko (Feb 25, 2013)

First all all this thread is retarded. Oda and Kishimoto are completely different people with completely different attitudes.

About sales numbers: One Piece is more popular in Japan while Naruto is more popular outside of Japan. Partially because 4KIDS botched One Piece anime and it didn't do much good for its publicity. 

But look at it this way: Japanese love One Piece like they love one of their complicated foods. Like the puffer fish shit that needs to be prepared specially or else it kills the eater.

Naruto is fast food like McDonalds, it's spreads all over the place. It's simply easy to digest with simpler way to follow it. Unlike One Piece with its many storylines, slavery, racism and whatnot. Naruto is easy pasttime comics.


----------



## Jagger (Feb 25, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I chose my words very carefully. We could argue all day about quality, as you said. So I won't get into that with you. To each their own as far as that is concerned.


It was my fault, I didn't read properly. And yeah, you're right. When it comes to opinion, there's no such thing as the "wrong" side and the "right" side, that's why believe One Piece vs Naruto are pretty much pointless and drags users to stupid discussions.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Sorry, but that comes down to opinion and not "facts". I could say Berserk is the best one and you'll disagree and I'll disagree with your opinion and we would start to argue until someone closes the thread.



No. That's actually a fact. One Piece is the highest selling title in WSJ.



> If sales were a factor for deciding quality, Naruto would be one of the best manga out there, as it's up there with One Piece too.



Actually, it's not even close.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No. That's actually a fact. One Piece is the highest selling title in WSJ.
> 
> 
> 
> *Actually, it's not even close*.



As in what? Sales?

If so, last time I checked Naruto is in top 5 overall.


----------



## Jagger (Feb 25, 2013)

Again, I made a miskate and I apologize, I misunderstood what he said.


----------



## Cave Jansen (Feb 25, 2013)

Hatomko said:


> First all all this thread is retarded. Oda and Kishimoto are completely different people with completely different attitudes.
> 
> About sales numbers: One Piece is more popular in Japan while Naruto is more popular outside of Japan. Partially because 4KIDS botched One Piece anime and it didn't do much good for its publicity.
> 
> ...




This is all we need to know about OP complext storytelling. Stuff goes wrong for everybody, Luffy beats the bad guy, they have a feast in the end of that arc, another plot-point is unveiled, next arc beggins. -> rinse and repeat.

I wish it was as complex as you say, but with a story gravitating so much around the protagonists, i don't think it has any room for that at all.

Also, the way it develops right now is painfully slow. If you call Naruto fast food, i would call OP a bigass omelet that you usually find in food contests (think of Man vs Food).


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Sarry said:


> [*]Bleach is notoriously better at weird yet *logical plot-twists*, and better looking females(guess what..boobs are Kubo's specialty.)



Bleach + Logic = Blasphemy. 

How is that possible?


----------



## Hatomko (Feb 25, 2013)

Cave Jansen said:


> This is all we need to know about OP complext storytelling. Stuff goes wrong for everybody, Luffy beats the bad guy, they have a feast in the end of that arc, another plot-point is unveiled, next arc beggins. -> rinse and repeat.
> 
> I wish it was as complex as you say, but with a story gravitating so much around the protagonists, i don't think it has any room for that at all.
> 
> Also, the way it develops right now is painfully slow. If you call Naruto fast food, i would call OP a bigass omelet that you usually find in food contests (think of Man vs Food).



Looks like someone got offended. Please don't tell me you're one of those fast food haters...
Have you read all of One Piece chapters? Apparently not. I have. Same goes for Naruto. 
It doesn't really matter what you think though. Japanese love One Piece more than Naruto. Westernese love Naruto more than One Piece.
Naruto fits westernese mroe with easier digestion.

You don't have to go so offended here.  Why not accept that Naruto is more of western tastes.


----------



## Sarry (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Bleach + Logic = Blasphemy.



Hey, as weird as it may sound, most of the twists that happen in bleach have clear connections to plot...i.e they can be traced to previous arcs in the manga. 

I am trying to think of a metaphor that's relevant, but nothing comes to mind at the time.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Sarry said:


> Hey, as weird as it may sound, most of the twists that happen in bleach have clear connections to plot...i.e they can be traced to previous arcs in the manga.
> 
> I am trying to think of a metaphor that's relevant, but nothing comes to mind at the time.



Their not logical, they're just stupid.

-Ichigo being a quincy.


----------



## Hatomko (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Their not logical, they're just stupid.
> 
> -Ichigo being a quincy.




Hougyouko willed it. You know it's true!


----------



## Cave Jansen (Feb 25, 2013)

Hatomko said:


> Looks like someone got offended. Please don't tell me you're one of those fast food haters...
> Have you read all of One Piece chapters? Apparently not. I have. Same goes for Naruto.
> It doesn't really matter what you think though. Japanese love One Piece more than Naruto. Westernese love Naruto more than One Piece.
> Naruto fits westernese mroe with easier digestion.
> ...



I was actually about to agree with your whole point, but then i started to remmember myself that OP isn't all that shiny and pretty as some make it to be.
And yes, i read both.

I admit to be a bit biased though.

Also, i don't think your analogy fits seeing as how convoluted and repetitive Naruto can be sometimes. It's far from being of easy digestion.


----------



## Hatomko (Feb 25, 2013)

Cave Jansen said:


> I was actually about to agree with your whole point, but then i started to remmember myself that OP isn't all that shiny and pretty as some make it to be.
> And yes, i read both.
> 
> I admit to be a bit biased though.
> ...



Shiny and pretty? Hm... Tenryuubito are lot darker than anything Naruto has to offer to be honest. One Piece's world is all over the spectrum and some of that shit is kinda disturbing. The entire Holy Land Mariejoa and slave business. Plus Boa sisters and that implied rape thingy.

In this way Naruto is easier to take in, one boy, one Messiah! 



Cave Jansen said:


> I admit to be a bit biased though.



Bad boy, you! 

I like Shingeki no Kyoujin and Dorohedoro mroe than Naruto by the way. Ever read them?


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Hatomko said:


> Shiny and pretty? Hm...* Tenryuubito are lot darker than anything Naruto has to offer to be honest*. One Piece's world is all over the spectrum and some of that shit is kinda disturbing. The entire Holy Land Mariejoa and slave business. Plus Boa sisters and that implied rape thingy.
> 
> In this way Naruto is easier to take in, one boy, one Messiah!



Really now? 

I'm pretty sure Haku's flashback is on par if not better.


----------



## Hatomko (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Really now?
> 
> I'm pretty sure Haku's flashback is on par if not better.



Seriously? No, you serious?


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Hatomko said:


> Seriously? No, you serious?



Clearly you are underestimating Part 1.


----------



## Hatomko (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Clearly you are underestimating Part 1.



Nooo.... part I was the best part in Naruto there was! If you're saying haku got it shittier than being gang raped by Tenryuubito... NO! That horrible Zabusa, doing nautghy things to poor boy. Well, admit it - you would as well. 

EDT - Now I see why everyone love Naruto! Dat Haku and all of that yaoi subtext!


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Hatomko said:


> Nooo.... part I was the best part in Naruto there was! If you're saying haku got it shittier than being gang raped by Tenryuubito... NO! *That horrible Zabusa, doing nautghy things to poor boy.* Well, admit it - you would as well.



That statement proves you didn't read Haku's flashback.

A kid watching his own father kill his mother over a stupid reason. Then said kid proceeds to kill his own father out of fear of being killed as well. 

Said kid doesn't have a family or a place to stay, therefore he must fend for himself alone in the dreadful cold, while fighting off wolves. 

Did I mention his kind was hated. 

At least Boa had her sisters and is still living. Haku had to learn how to kill people at a young age to survive.


----------



## Hatomko (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> That statement proves you didn't read Haku's flashback.



Confirmed for no sense of humour!


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Hatomko said:


> Confirmed for no sense of humour!



How funny.


----------



## Hatomko (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> How funny.



I know.


----------



## Sarry (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> Their not logical, they're just stupid.
> 
> -Ichigo being a quincy.



Somehow, Kubo will show it in a way to make sense of it...i think. 

I dunno, first time reading, yeah Kubo seems like he's doing LSD and Opiates at the same time. But rereading the chapters in one shot rather than doing it week by week somehow shows the twists in a better light. 


But anyways, that's what i've experienced. The twists are still out of nowhere at times.

POST#2390


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> As in what? Sales?
> 
> If so, last time I checked Naruto is in top 5 overall.


It is.

Just ignore him.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Corporal said:


> It is.
> 
> Just ignore him.



That's not overall. The overall ranking had Naruto at 4th place while One Piece was 1st, Dragonball was 2nd and I forgot the third one.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Sarry said:


> Somehow, Kubo will show it in a way to make sense of it...i think.
> 
> I dunno, first time reading, yeah Kubo seems like he's doing LSD and Opiates at the same time. But rereading the chapters in one shot rather than doing it week by week somehow shows the twists in a better light.
> 
> ...



But people don't feel like rereading Bleach. 

While on this topic, I see two major events, based off last chapter, that will rock these forums.

That day I will laugh.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> That's not overall. The overall ranking had Naruto at 4th place while One Piece was 1st, Dragonball was 2nd and I forgot the third one.


Still gets the point across, since it's been that high since its lengthy release.

Though now I wonder how "overall" factors in length.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Corporal said:


> Still gets the point across, since it's been that high since its lengthy release.
> 
> Though now I wonder how "overall" factors in length.



By overall I meant volume sales.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2013)

-Dragon- said:


> As in what? Sales?
> 
> If so, last time I checked Naruto is in top 5 overall.



Positions are close, number of sales are not. Each year, OP sales more than the 2nd or 3rd place combined. It's been that way for a while now. The link that other guy provided shows that with Naruto sell at around 7 million this year in contrast to One Piece's 23 million.


----------



## Algol (Feb 25, 2013)

who?

10char


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

Algol said:


> who?
> 
> 10char



Some guy who liked how Toriyama drew Ranfan's armpits.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Positions are close, number of sales are not. Each year, OP sales more than the 2nd or 3rd place combined. It's been that way for a while now. The link that other guy provided shows that with Naruto sell at around 7 million this year in contrast to One Piece's 23 million.



That's only because One Piece is basically read by everyone in Japan, not just the manga demographics. Not mention it really only got that jump in sales around the MarineFord Saga(2009).

Sales don't really judge the quality of series considering Fairy Tail is selling twice as more than HXH for the past years, yet we all know who reins superior. Togashi should be number one.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

It's not talking quality, just simple sale rates.

But the major flaw there is that the rates are solely in Japan, not worldwide.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2013)

Worldwide sales only change the outlook in regards to Dragon Ball.



-Dragon- said:


> That's only because One Piece is basically read by everyone in Japan, not just the manga demographics. Not mention it really only got that jump in sales around the MarineFord Saga(2009).
> 
> Sales don't really judge the quality of series considering Fairy Tail is selling twice as more than HXH for the past years, yet we all know who reins superior. Togashi should be number one.



Doesn't that say something though on its broad appeal? Also, what are you talking about? OP consistently hits that 10 million+ mark. Like I stated for at least the past few years, it has sold more than 2nd and 3rd place, sometimes 4th or 5th too like when it sold 37 million copies. Yeah, popularity doesn't determine quality but when you have two series published in the same magazine and one is vastly outshining the other such as in this case then it's at least clear that one clearly draws in more appeal than the other.

HxH goes on constant hiatus, so volumes are released irregularly, the fact that Fairy Tail is actually only edges it out by about 700,000 is kinda awful...Although I do agree if Togashi tried he could have trumped Kishi and Oda. He is a more established writer than them and his artistic range is greater than theirs.


----------



## KevKev (Feb 25, 2013)

I knew Louis-954 would be in here, soloing and shit 

but I rather have Kubo write my Nardo, epic trolls


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Worldwide sales only change the outlook in regards to Dragon Ball.
> 
> Doesn't that say something though on its broad appeal? Also, what are you talking about? OP consistently hits that 10 million+ mark. Like I stated for at least the past few years, it has sold more than 2nd and 3rd place, sometimes 4th or 5th too like when it sold 37 million copies. Yeah, popularity doesn't determine quality but when you have two series published in the same magazine and one is vastly outshining the other such as in this case then it's at least clear that one clearly draws in more appeal than the other.


One Piece didn't pass the 10 million mark until around 2009-2010. Before that it was selling just as much as Naruto and Bleach did every year. I agree with everything else.



> HxH goes on constant hiatus, so volumes are released irregularly, the fact that Fairy Tail is actually only edges it out by about 700,000 is kinda awful...Although I do agree if Togashi tried he could have trumped Kishi and Oda. He is a more established writer than them and his artistic range is greater than theirs.


Agreed.

He has enough time to become an editor, but not enough to finish his own manga.


----------



## Revolution (Feb 25, 2013)

Luffy would have saved Namitachi from Danzarlong


----------



## αce (Feb 25, 2013)

Can we all agree Luffy>Naruto?


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

Is there any condensed worldwide data? From what I had found Naruto had a majority of manga sales in Europe but the sources look to be outdated.

Also wondering how overall sales adjust for manga length/if they do.





αce said:


> Can we all agree Luffy>Naruto?


Can't stand either of them that much. Though my opinion on Luffy has always been apathy to mild disapproval my opinion on Naruto has jumped around. His highpoint for me was during the Retrieval arc, at which point I even somewhat liked him, while modern day he loses out to Luffy only because of how he's fallen.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 25, 2013)

αce said:


> Can we all agree Luffy>Naruto?



Not really an achievement.


----------



## AoshiKun (Feb 25, 2013)

αce said:


> Can we all agree Luffy>Naruto?


​
Now it's right: 
Luffy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Naruto


----------



## Jagger (Feb 25, 2013)

αce said:


> Can we all agree Toon Tendo>Luffy>Naruto?


The GG master.


----------



## Algol (Feb 25, 2013)

I don't read OP myself, but ofc I've heard good things. Isn't there that often cited trend that Naruto is popular in the West (Europe, North America, South America), whereas OP is more popular in the east (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, parts of China, Pacific, etc.)? I mean I see that a bit, as my Chinese and Korean friends who are international students here know of Naruto, but really only read One Piece seriously, whereas most of my American born friends know of One Piece, but only read Naruto seriously (of course that's just one example, so doesn't mean much).

Anyone know if that general trend is true tho (like any sales numbers out there)? If so, any ideas why that is? 

Did 4Kids basically kill One Piece's chances in the West right from the start? (I know thats why I first was repulsed by it).



Corporal said:


> Some guy who liked how Toriyama drew Ranfan's armpits.



Ha, Ranfan. Such an obscure DB reference. But after searching Ranfan and then One Piece characters, I do see the resemblence haha.


----------



## Absolute Zero. (Feb 25, 2013)

There would be more than a handful of relevant characters and much, much more character development; the Narutoverse would be even more immense and vast; innovative and creative use of jutsu (Sasuke wouldn't be spamming Susanoo nearly as much); practically no one in the current timeline would die, *ever*, bar one or two necessities (most of the Akatsuki would survive except maybe Pain and Itachi); the art would be unorthodox and less appealing (Sakura would gain relevance at the cost of having a rack several times larger than Tsunade's); the manga would be much longer and some arcs would feel as if dragging on until reaching their climax. 

These were the first things that came to mind. Overall, it would be better IMO. I barely pay any heed to the art-style of OP anymore; most people would come to at least tolerate it at some point. The real negatives would be the dragging on of arcs and the extreme lack of deaths, though I'd gladly accept that for more relevance and a lot more character development.


----------



## Corporal (Feb 25, 2013)

Algol said:


> Ha, Ranfan. Such an obscure DB reference. But after searching Ranfan and then One Piece characters, I do see the resemblence haha.



I don't know why but I remember most things in this interview very poignantly from when I read it six, sevenish years ago in some One Piece book I had:
Link removed


----------



## BasedKakashi (Feb 25, 2013)

Hey Kaiba what makes YYH so much better than Naruto? I read/watched and enjoyed both, but I still probably would give the edge to Naruto.

YYH was cool, but I just can't fucking stand it when the author refuses to kill a character. Kuwabara captain faker? Srs? Genkai just coming back for the fuck of it?


----------



## Frosch (Feb 25, 2013)

Sakura would have tits


----------



## Algol (Feb 26, 2013)

Corporal said:


> I don't know why but I remember most things in this interview very poignantly from when I read it six, sevenish years ago in some One Piece book I had:
> Link removed



Hahaha the way he described the armpit scene sounded creepy as fuck haha.

And it's funny that Toriyama can barely remember his own characters anymore.


----------



## Rikudou No Sennin (Feb 26, 2013)

When was the last time Naruto the manga made you guys laugh? This manga has fallen down so low to where it's all about Uchihahahaha minus Tobi & Madara of course . But you get the point. Meanwhile, Luffy always makes me laugh and the Strawhats adventures.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 26, 2013)

La buse said:


> How do you think it would be?


Probably end up as far asea as this thread.

Landlocking.


----------

