# Isshiki vs judara



## Sufex (Mar 7, 2021)

Madara has full power and 2 Rinnegan, knows that a outuskiki is coming to take over earth

Isshiki has knows that a strong warrior is on earth before he can take it over.

They both have rep intel

Bonus: how does jingen do?


Location VOTE

To kill


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## MustardPN (Mar 7, 2021)

I would say that Madara outlasts, but if he gets beaten into nonexistence he'll probably have to respawn which means he's out of the fight therefore Isshiki wins
Low diff instead of neg diff because while he's wrecking Madara his Limbo might be annoying

Reactions: Agree 2


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## blk (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki explodes Madaras head with a kick, GG

Reactions: Agree 3


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## dergeist (Mar 7, 2021)

Madara no difference this fodder who got stomped by pre-fruut Kaguya.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Lewd 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 7, 2021)

Is this Madara with the Juubi or Just Regular Madara with Two Rinnegan and Sage mode?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki vaporizes this fodder with a kick.

Reactions: Kage 1


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## Alita (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki low diffs at worst.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 7, 2021)

Alita said:


> Isshiki low diffs at worst.


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## Bob74h (Mar 7, 2021)

Madara fought a stronger naruto so he wins

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 4


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## Sage King (Mar 7, 2021)

Juudara slaughters

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Kagutsutchi (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki low diffs

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Fused (Mar 7, 2021)

This is a joke right?

Isshiki was oneshot by Kaguya before she even consumed the Divine Fruit.

Madara is equal to Kaguya after consuming the Divine Fruit and merging with the Divine Tree.

Madara and Kaguya remain at the top of the food chain.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 5


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## Bob74h (Mar 7, 2021)

Fused said:


> This is a joke right?


Sadly it's not as people do not use their brains 




Fused said:


> Isshiki was oneshot by Kaguya before she even consumed the Divine Fruit.


True and jigen is weaker then that isshiki too making this a fight a bigger stomp then it already was

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 4


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## Fused (Mar 7, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Sadly it's not as people do not use their brains
> 
> 
> 
> True and jigen is weaker then that isshiki too making this a fight a bigger stomp then it already was


People do not even watch the show honestly. I mean, I haven't either, but at least I watched some long videos.

But I can't even blame them for skipping this garbage show, can you imagine sitting through 50 flashbacks of a mentally slow child with his loli friend? LOLOL So miserable.


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## Onyx Emperor (Mar 7, 2021)

limbo solos

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Monarch (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki sneezes and Juudara disintigrates .

 Limbo will feel like a tickle against the individual who ate kicks and punches from Baryon Naruto who strikes harder than Isshiki himself who hits harder than Jigen who neg diffed Susanoo with one kick .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sparks (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki sips a glass of wine over Madara's fetid corpse.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Fused (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki almost died in one shot to the weakling Kaguya LMAOOOOOO:



And Madara was nearing the power of Kaguya AFTER she got 90% of her powers:



Imagine thinking that the alien idiot who lost to Kaguya without Divine Fruit and Tree could beat the man who was equal to Kaguya with the Divine Fruit and Tree.

I have a question for you people, could you kindly ask Kishimoto what kind of substance he was consuming when he wrote this show? It seems like you people go to the same places.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Bob74h (Mar 7, 2021)

Fused said:


> people do not even watch the show honestly.


You are not wrong as people here only read the manga 





Fused said:


> But I can't even blame them for skipping this garbage show, can you imagine sitting through 50 flashbacks of a mentally slow child with his loli friend?



Naruto has a loli friend who might that be?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fused (Mar 7, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> You are not wrong as people here only read the manga
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was talking about this beta boy over here:



Creepy by the way.

But, as I said, Kishimoto was clearly smoking something.

Reactions: Kage 1


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## Bob74h (Mar 7, 2021)

Fused said:


> I was talking about this beta boy over here:



Obito, the man who started a war because he loves a 13 yr old that died decades ago






Fused said:


> Creepy by the way.



he's just upset that she wanted kakashi's raikiri and not his rods in her so he's just a incel really


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki curbfodderstomps. Neg diff.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bob74h (Mar 7, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Isshiki curbfodderstomps. Neg diff.


But he died fighting a much weaker kaguya why would he beat juubidara


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> But he died fighting a much weaker kaguya why would he beat juubidara


Kaguya's mere existence made Madara about to explode. 

if Isshiki was about to die by an attack from Kaguya herself, Madara died (eventually) by her Will (Zetsu). Not even attacking him personally.

S/T Jutsu into the sealing jutsu = GG.


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## Bob74h (Mar 7, 2021)

New Folder said:


> Kaguya's mere existence made Madara about to explode.



Actually that was zetsu her will allowed her to resurrect in madara's body, It was more hax then sheer power
plus the kaguya who fought naruto is stronger then the one who bodied isshiki


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> Actually that was zetsu her will allowed her to resurrect in madara's body, It was more hax then sheer power
> plus the kaguya who fought naruto is stronger then the one who bodied isshiki


- nope, it was Kagya's chakra being too much for him too handle. So, no matter how you look at it, Isshiki's situation is better
than Madara's.

- it doesn't matter, as it was Zetsu who curbstomped Madara, not Kaguya.


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## Fused (Mar 7, 2021)

New Folder said:


> - nope, it was Kagya's chakra being too much for him too handle. So, no matter how you look at it, Isshiki's situation is better
> than Madara's.
> 
> - it doesn't matter, as it was Zetsu who curbstomped Madara, not Kaguya.


Factually false. Madara would have been able to handle Kaguya's chakra, since he had reached her level of power, as foretold by Hagoromo. Madara awakened the Rinnesharingan, the ocular power that only Kaguya before him possessed.

Black Zetsu needed to latch onto Madara's body and take over, then lower his defences, and only THEN start absorbing chakra from everyone. Because Black Zetsu knew that Madara was more than capable of handling that massive amount of chakra, since he had reached Kaguya's level and awakened the Rinnesharingan. Hence why Black Zetsu needed to take control of Madara's body and lower all of his defences.

So you're wrong, listen to the story. Madara is unsurpassed. Kishimoto even said that every Shinobi has a weakness, but Madara Uchiha however does not.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2021)

Fused said:


> Factually false. Madara would have been able to handle Kaguya's chakra, since he had reached her level of power, as foretold by Hagoromo. Madara awakened the Rinnesharingan, the ocular power that only Kaguya before him possessed.


yeah, no. We have seen how he became a balloon and was about to explode. 



Fused said:


> Black Zetsu needed to latch onto Madara's body and take over, then lower his defences, and only THEN start absorbing chakra from everyone. Because Black Zetsu knew that Madara was more than capable of handling that massive amount of chakra, since he had reached Kaguya's level and awakened the Rinnesharingan. Hence why Black Zetsu needed to take control of Madara's body and lower all of his defences.


headcanon. 
don't know from where you came up with "lower his defenses" either 



Fused said:


> So you're wrong, listen to the story. Madara is unsurpassed. Kishimoto even said that every Shinobi has a weakness, but Madara Uchiha however does not.


lol, no.

Kishi made that statement about Edo Madara, and it was just hype. Obviously.
it was made clear that Kaguya is far stronger than Madara by everyone.


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## Fused (Mar 7, 2021)

New Folder said:


> don't know from where you came up with "lower his defenses" either


Why do you think Zetsu latched onto Madara's body???? For fun???? Because he's gay and wanted to know what it feels like to be inside Madara???? 



New Folder said:


> Kishi made that statement about Edo Madara, and it was just hype. Obviously.


So now "Edo Madara" and Madara Uchiha are different characters? LOOOOOL. Nope, same character. Madara Uchiha has no weakness, Kishimoto stated this, case closed.


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 7, 2021)

Prime Isshiki got neg diffed by Pre-Fruit Kaguya

He doesn't have Rikudo Senjutsu or a Rinnegan to counter Limbo.

Limbo GG.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## xingi (Mar 7, 2021)

Madara gets beaten then tossed in another dimension or fed to juubi

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Alita (Mar 7, 2021)

Fused said:


> This is a joke right?
> 
> Isshiki was oneshot by Kaguya before she even consumed the Divine Fruit.
> 
> ...



And madara was taken out by an even weaker foe in black zetsu.  

Blindsiding someone when their gaurd is down =/= beating them in a fair fight

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Alita (Mar 7, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> Prime Isshiki got neg diffed by Pre-Fruit Kaguya
> 
> He doesn't have Rikudo Senjutsu or a Rinnegan to counter Limbo.
> 
> Limbo GG.


And madara got neg diffed by a much weaker foe in black zetsu. 

Isshiki can sense across dimensions and identify people based on just their chakra signature as he did with koji. He can definitely sense limbo. Not that he needs to as limbo isn't a threat to begin with. He couldn't even scratch teen naruto with it.


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki is overkill

Jigen is more than enough

Legit BFR gg


He also has the physical strength to fucking oneshot with Taijutsu  



Madara the wannabe God gets low diffed

Reactions: Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Mar 7, 2021)

Juudara is so unnecessary here, it's not even funny. That's like putting super monkey god goku fight against dbz arc frieza.
Edo madara PS slash has more destructive capability than borutoverse combined.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Dislike 7


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## MYGod000 (Mar 7, 2021)

Madara wins. 

His PS alone is like 3-4x the size of Sasuke's PS.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 7, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Madara wins.


Nope


MYGod000 said:


> His PS alone is like 3-4x the size of Sasuke's PS.


Ah yes
The utterly nonexistent PS is so much bigger than Sasukes that we actually saw  

How do you type this shit out?

Sincerely?

Also

Its real dumb to correlate avatar size with avatar power anyway



Personally I dont see a difference at all, BPS looks the same size as BM KBs in those scans, which means its equal in size to Sasukes base PS 

Youre not gonna argue that they are all equal in stats or some other dumb shit now are you? 

BM Naruto was no larger than BM Bee or any of the other Jins yet is 5x more powerful conservatively 

TLDR

Even if you were able to prove that Madaras nonexistent PS is larger than Sasukes (you cant) it doesnt mean shit as avatar size doesnt correlate with power especially in God tier

Reactions: Winner 1


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## kayz (Mar 7, 2021)

Isshiki neg diffs.

Isshiki sits at the top of the verse presently.


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## Janessa Zoldyck (Mar 7, 2021)

All the mental gymnastics to get around Isshiki getting owned by PF Kaguya oof

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## kayz (Mar 7, 2021)

JanessaLovesSylveonZ said:


> All the mental gymnastics to get around Isshiki getting owned by PF Kaguya oof


What does Kaguya have to do with this fight?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Janessa Zoldyck (Mar 8, 2021)

kayz said:


> What does Kaguya have to do with this fight?


Because Juudara would probably clap Isshiki based off being even somewhat relative to her?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 3


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## dergeist (Mar 8, 2021)

BaragganLouisenbairn said:


> Juudara is so unnecessary here, it's not even funny. That's like putting super monkey god goku fight against dbz arc frieza.
> Edo madara PS slash has more destructive capability than borutoverse combined.



Even that is unnecessary, Human path and an ST are more than enough to slap diff this chump, just like they're enough for cuck bros. There's a reason Madara didn't use them in the fight against Cuckbros. It would've been GG.


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## dergeist (Mar 8, 2021)

JanessaLovesSylveonZ said:


> All the mental gymnastics to get around Isshiki getting owned by PF Kaguya oof



But he stonk, he solod Adult Cuckbros 

Let's ignore they are fodder Compared to their teen selves.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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## Janessa Zoldyck (Mar 8, 2021)

dergeist said:


> But he stonk, he solod Adult Cuckbros
> 
> Let's ignore they are fodder Compared to their teen selves.


This too. Beating Adult Naruto and Sasuke is somehow a feat even though they are narratively verbatim stated to be weaker than they were in the 4th War..

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Mar 8, 2021)

Isshiki>>V2 Jigen>>3 Eyed Juubidara

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2021)

JanessaLovesSylveonZ said:


> Because Juudara would probably clap Isshiki based off being even somewhat relative to her?


That's not how it works. And you can't even call Kaguya 'pre-Fruit' anymore considering what Otsutsuki _do_, she probably has already eaten and evolved from other Chakra Fruits in the past. Isshiki was _ambushed_ by her since he was her superior and her role was to be eaten by the Juubi but she rebelled.

Not that it matters: Madara is weaker than Kaguya regardless. Her power was enough to make him nearly explode for god's sake and he was turned into a pinball by the weaker teen Naruto and Sasuke while Isshiki fought the far stronger adult versions, with Naruto going fucking Baryon Mode just to slow him down and do some meaningful damage to him. Note Kurama never saw Madara as a threat THAT big that Baryon Mode was needed just to fight or defeat him.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1 | Disagree 3 | Optimistic 1


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 8, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> That's not how it works. And you can't even call Kaguya 'pre-Fruit' anymore considering what Otsutsuki _do_, she probably has already eaten and evolved from other Chakra Fruits in the past. Isshiki was _ambushed_ by her since he was her superior and her role was to be eaten by the Juubi but she rebelled.
> 
> Not that it matters: Madara is weaker than Kaguya regardless. Her power was enough to make him nearly explode for god's sake and *he was turned into a pinball by the weaker teen Naruto and Sasuke while Isshiki fought the far stronger adult versions,* with Naruto going fucking Baryon Mode just to slow him down and do some meaningful damage to him. Note Kurama never saw Madara as a threat THAT big that Baryon Mode was needed just to fight or defeat him.


Even if she had eaten chakra fruits before she was still weaker than Prime Isshiki but still neg diffed him. That's something Adult RSM Naruto or Rinnegan Sasuke could only dream of. 
Pre-Earth Charkra-Fruit Kaguya > Adult Fate Bros by feats

The evidence in the Boruto manga points to the Fate Bros being weaker than their teen selfs.

Even if he used Baryon Mode in Shippuden it would have been as useless as using the 8-Gates against an Edo Tensei. It was established a long time ago in the show that to defeat immortal enemies you need a sealing jutsu.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 2


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> That's not how it works. And you can't even call Kaguya 'pre-Fruit' anymore considering what Otsutsuki _do_, she probably has already eaten and evolved from other Chakra Fruits in the past. Isshiki was _ambushed_ by her since he was her superior and her role was to be eaten by the Juubi but she rebelled.
> 
> Not that it matters: Madara is weaker than Kaguya regardless. Her power was enough to make him nearly explode for god's sake and he was turned into a pinball by the weaker teen Naruto and Sasuke while Isshiki fought the far stronger adult versions, with Naruto going fucking Baryon Mode just to slow him down and do some meaningful damage to him. Note Kurama never saw Madara as a threat THAT big that Baryon Mode was needed just to fight or defeat him.


He can't use Baryon mode when Kurama is literally inside Madara LOL, how do you expect him to use the mode centred around the fox when the fox is inside someone else? That doesn't mean anything.

And anyway it's pretty obvious that Kishimoto hadn't even thought of Baryon mode back then, so the point is still moot.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> Even if she had eaten chakra fruits before she was still weaker than Prime Isshiki but still neg diffed him. That's something Adult RSM Naruto or Rinnegan Sasuke could only dream of.
> Pre-Earth Charkra-Fruit Kaguya > Adult Fate Bros by feats
> 
> The evidence in the Boruto manga points to the Fate Bros being weaker than their teen selfs.
> ...


How do you know that? Kaguya would have already eaten multiple Chakra Fruits by the time she _*ambushed*_ Isshiki and caught him when his guard was down. It wasn't even a straight up fight yet you're treating it like such. We know that Kaguya would have already eaten several chakra fruits before even REACHING Ninja Earth. Stop basing things from what were incomplete information.

And no, the evidence in the manga anime novels and databooks shows that Naruto and Sasuke got _far_ stronger than their teenage selves. Naruto could battle guys who could move the moon and cut it in half and Sasuke could casually open up different dimensions, something that neither teen Naruto and Sasuke could do. The notion that they got weaker from their teen selves is not only fucking stupid, it should go die in a hole. When Naruto and Sasuke fight people FAR stronger than what their teenager selves did (Toneri, Momoshiki, or Isshiki) it shows that they had made massive gains from what they were before.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Nope


Yes, He does. It not your fault, for not being able to understand. 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Ah yes
> The utterly nonexistent PS is so much bigger than Sasukes that we actually saw



Argument from ignorance, So Because he never attempted it while in JJ form means he can't do it?  by that Logic Because Sasuke never used The Other Rinnegan abilities that mean he can't do them. right. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> How do you type this shit out?
> 
> Sincerely?
> 
> ...


I mean Sasuke and alive Madara have Six paths chakra, but only Madara has Senjutsu with his Six path chakra. 


Sasuke PS is equal in size to 50% Kurama while Madara's PS is bigger than Full 100% Kurama. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Personally I dont see a difference at all, BPS looks the same size as BM KBs in those scans, which means its equal in size to Sasukes base PS


Sorry to say this...I really am, but who cares what you think. We go off fact not personal Opinions.  Adult Sasuke has Six paths Chakra thanks to the Rinnegan, Madara also has Six paths chakra thank to the Rinnegan that he unlocked+Senjutsu chakra on top of that Six paths chakra. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Youre not gonna argue that they are all equal in stats or some other dumb shit now are you?



Why would I do that? alive Madara, and Adult Naruto are the only ones that have Senjutsu combined with their Six paths chakra.


WorldsStrongest said:


> BM Naruto was no larger than BM Bee or any of the other Jins yet is 5x more powerful conservatively


That irrelevant Because Kurama is the Biggest chunk of the Ten tails chakra so ofc he is going to have much more chakra then the rest who are much smaller pieces  of the ten tails chakra. 



WorldsStrongest said:


> TLDR
> 
> Even if you were able to prove that Madaras nonexistent PS is larger than Sasukes (you cant) it doesnt mean shit as avatar size doesnt correlate with power especially in God tier



It does, and Your argument for BM Naruto was useless information Because even at half it body mass it still has more chakra than all the other Tailed Beast. 

 Back to Isshiki he has no way to Beat Madara,  He is much weaker than Him. Pre-Fruit Kaguya beat him in combat, and she is weaker than Madara.   Everyone claim they Demon till it time to go down to that place.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> That's not how it works. And you can't even call Kaguya 'pre-Fruit' anymore considering what Otsutsuki _do_, she probably has already eaten and evolved from other Chakra Fruits in the past.



That head canon, since we don't See Momoshiki Evolve and he was eating many chakra fruit in the anime.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Isshiki was _ambushed_ by her since he was her superior and her role was to be eaten by the Juubi but she rebelled.



Where was it stated she Ambushed him...


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not that it matters: Madara is weaker than Kaguya regardless. Her power was enough to make him nearly explode for god's sake and he was turned into a pinball by the weaker teen Naruto and Sasuke while Isshiki fought the far stronger adult versions, with Naruto going fucking Baryon Mode just to slow him down and do some meaningful damage to him. Note Kurama never saw Madara as a threat THAT big that Baryon Mode was needed just to fight or defeat him.



Madara is weaker than Kaguya from the 4th War not pre-Fruit Kaguya that Owned Isshiki

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## Sage King (Mar 8, 2021)

Adult Naruto above godruto (teen)?


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 8, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How do you know that? Kaguya would have already eaten multiple Chakra Fruits by the time she _*ambushed*_ Isshiki and caught him when his guard was down. It wasn't even a straight up fight yet you're treating it like such.
> 
> And no, the evidence in the manga anime novels and databooks shows that Naruto and Sasuke got _far_ stronger than their teenage selves. Naruto could battle guys who could move the moon and cut it in half and Sasuke could casually open up different dimensions, something that neither teen Naruto and Sasuke could do. The notion that they got weaker from their teen selves is not only fucking stupid, it should go die in a hole.


Yes, she had eaten multiple charkra fruits before the Earth's one but the fact that their plan was still the same i.e she was gonna be the sacrifice means Isshiki was stronger than her. Now we've seen Isshiki(weaker version of him) fight opponents weaker than him like the Fate Bros but even when caught off guard they couldn't deal a fatal blow. Whether she caught him off guard or not is irrelevant. That Kaguya is stronger than the Adult Fate Bros. Their Teen selfs fought an even stronger version of her in the war arc.
Final Kaguya(ETSB)> Revived Kaguya>Post-Earth Fruit Kaguya >Prime Isshiki > Pre-Earth Fruit Kaguya> Current Isshiki > Adult Fate Bros

The same moon that was gonna be vaporized by a chakra cannon powered by the 8-tails and about 50 fodders.

Sasuke opens dimensions to run away, we've never seen him use that offensively(it's not like he could) and even after opening a few he is already out of chakra.

Another week in NBD and the Boruto era wank continues to intensify.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Mar 8, 2021)

Sage King said:


> Adult Naruto above godruto (teen)?


Well yeah I talked to Kishimoto yesterday and he said that is indeed the case due to feats and portrayal


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

Code said:


> Well yeah I talked to Kishimoto yesterday and he said that is indeed the case due to feats and portrayal


If you get the chance to meet him again, ask him what kind of drug he was abusing when he wrote Madara's death.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Architect (Mar 8, 2021)

Jojodara spanks


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## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 8, 2021)

Fused said:


> He can't use Baryon mode when Kurama is literally inside Madara LOL, how do you expect him to use the mode centred around the fox when the fox is inside someone else?



Idk...maybe because Naruto ALSO has Kurama (or 50% of him) sealed inside him too?!

Imagine not reading the manga and thinking you can debate about it 

@Code @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @Kagutsutchi @SuperSaiyaMan12

Reactions: Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## Sage King (Mar 8, 2021)

Code said:


> Well yeah I talked to Kishimoto yesterday and he said that is indeed the case due to feats and portrayal



Proof please(of talking to him) and thanks in advance 
I should see the conversation cuz feats and portrayal in his manga doesn't place adult Naruto anywhere near his teen self at all CLEARLY

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Idk...maybe because Naruto ALSO has Kurama (or 50% of him) sealed inside him too?!
> 
> Imagine not reading the manga and thinking you can debate about it
> 
> @Code @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @Kagutsutchi @SuperSaiyaMan12


50%, not 100%. It's different.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ARGUS (Mar 8, 2021)

CST is something isshiki cannot counter 
Limbo is not being seen or sensed either so any taijutsu and close quarters advantage that isshiki had is flat out cancelled 

madara takes it

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 8, 2021)

Fused said:


> 50%, not 100%. It's different.



I don't ever recall that being relevant.


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I don't ever recall that being relevant.


It is relevant. How can Naruto use a Kurama-centric mode when he doesn't have the entire beast?

Madara Uchiha became the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki and possessed half of Kurama, which he extracted from Naruto Uzumaki. Half of Kurama is within Madara's being. Now tell how it is possible to activate a mode sustained by Kurama's atomic-energy-whatever (Boruto is a trash and retarded show) if half of Kurama is missing?

And anyway Madara is stronger than Baryon mode and cannot be killed. This... is the true power of immortality, the power of the Divine Tree.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 8, 2021)

Fused said:


> It is relevant. How can Naruto use a Kurama-centric mode when he doesn't have the entire beast?



He can use KCM, BM, BSM, etc. without the entire being. The burden of proof is on you to prove that needs all of Kurama. Kurama never said it, the requirements of Baryon Mode have never been stated to require it.


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> He can use KCM, BM, BSM, etc. without the entire being. The burden of proof is on you to prove that needs all of Kurama. Kurama never said it, the requirements of Baryon Mode have never been stated to require it.


So who cares if he can use Baryon mode? Madara can easily defeat him, just as he did with the 8 gates of Might Guy. 

And the only reason why Baryon mode never came up in the fight against Madara is because Kishimoto didn't even have a clue on how to defeat Madara, let alone Boruto, Isshiki, Baryon mode, all that trash that exists to milk this already bad show.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Dislike 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

@Fused fill me in on what he is Talking about.


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> @Fused fill me in on what he is Talking about.


These people are saying that Madara is weaker than Isshiki because Naruto/Kurama never thought of using Baryon mode in the fight against Madara LOOOOL.

These people genuinely think Kishimoto already had Baryon mode in mind back in 2013/2014 lolol.


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> He can use KCM, BM, BSM, etc. without the entire being. The burden of proof is on you to prove that needs all of Kurama. Kurama never said it, the requirements of Baryon Mode have never been stated to require it.




Why are you assuming 50% Kurama can use Bayron mode if you're saying  It never stated the requirements?    Bayron Mode is useless it would be like Naruto Taking 200 years off of future Zamasu.


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## kayz (Mar 8, 2021)

JanessaLovesSylveonZ said:


> Because Juudara would probably clap Isshiki based off being even somewhat relative to her?


In no way is Juuds relative to Kaguya, boss. How did you arrive at that conclusion?


It was stated her chakra dwarved Juuds to an incredible extent. Naruto and Sasuke basically described that.

And we don't know exactly if it was Pre or Post-F Kaguya who damaged Isshiki. Since Kaguya had her rinnesharingan on the forehead in the flashback.

And if it was even Pre-fruit Kaguya, we can't scale Juudara to her in any fashion. There's nothing to go on mangawise, beside head canon.


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## jonnty6 (Mar 8, 2021)

I still go with isshiki tbh

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Simpleguy (Mar 8, 2021)

Isshiki wins

Reactions: Agree 1


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 8, 2021)

kayz said:


> In no way is Juuds relative to Kaguya, boss. How did you arrive at that conclusion?
> 
> 
> It was stated her chakra dwarved Juuds to an incredible extent. Naruto and Sasuke basically described that.
> ...


The plan was to sacrifice Kaguya. So the Juubi had not yet matured enough to be bear the chakra fruit. None of them were sacrifices which means they fought before the she ate the fruit. 

Madara could've easily absorbed the chakra of the IT victims to reach Kaguya's power. He was just one step away from doing so. Black Zetsu took over and revived Kaguya before we could see him fight at full power. 

Juudara is closer to Revived Kaguya's power than Pre-Fruit Kaguya.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Mar 8, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> Juudara is closer to Revived Kaguya's power than Pre-Fruit Kaguya


He literally exploded when her chakra entered him


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 8, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> He literally exploded when her chakra entered him you maggot brain


As if he was in control of his body when all that was happening.


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## Simpleguy (Mar 8, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> As if he was in control of his body when all that was happening.


Still even if he wasn't in control it shows he didn't have the durability to survive it


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## Kagutsutchi (Mar 8, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> As if he was in control of his body when all that was happening.


It literally doesn't fucking matter you biscuit.

Naruto and Sasuke were in a similar situation versus Kaguya when black Zetsu attached himself to them, and Naruto could fucking tear him off.

They were even in a worse situation since BZ covered half their bodies and was being amped by Kaguya, whereas Black Zetsu against Madara was amped by Obito and didn't cover his body.

Knowing how your brain works, you will invent some shit reason as to why Naruto and Sasuke's situation was different from Madara's

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kagutsutchi (Mar 8, 2021)

Simpleguy said:


> Still even if he wasn't in control it shows he didn't have the durability to survive it


Same thing happened to Obito who was completely covered by black Zetsu and wasn't a Juubi jin, and he was able to resist BZ

Same thing happened to Naruto and Sasuke who were held in place by a black Zetsu amped by Kaguya and Naruto fucking tore off BZ from himself. 

AND in Naruto's scenario, he was getting his chakra absorbed while Madara was being amped by Kaguya.

What will this guy come up with now?


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 8, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> It literally doesn't fucking matter you shit biscuit.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke were in a similar situation versus Kaguya when black Zetsu attached himself to them, and Naruto could fucking tear him off.
> 
> ...


Actually it does matter. 

It was not the same thing, Zetsu had the aid of the Juubi/Kaguya inside Madara. Him being Kaguya's will made it easy for the Juubi to abandone Madara's control in favour of Zetsu/Kaguya's will. Naruto doesn't have the Juubi and the Bijuu's power would've rejected Zetsu's control.

I don't need to invent anything, Zetsu was Kaguya's will and he even states Hagoromo didn't know that the Juubi he sealed was in fact Kaguya. It was easier for Zetsu to resonate with it, since at some point in the past he was part of Kaguya/Juubi.


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## Kagutsutchi (Mar 8, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> Actually it does matter.


No it doesn't. 




AnbuHokage63 said:


> It was not the same thing, Zetsu had the aid of the Juubi/Kaguya inside Madara. Him being Kaguya's will made it easy for the Juubi to abandone Madara's control in favour of Zetsu/Kaguya's will. Naruto doesn't have the Juubi and the Bijuu's power would've rejected Zetsu's control.


This is all bullshit fanfic that you can't prove. 




AnbuHokage63 said:


> I don't need to invent anything, Zetsu was Kaguya's will and he even states Hagoromo didn't know that the Juubi he sealed was in fact Kaguya. It was easier for Zetsu to resonate with it, since at some point in the past he was part of Kaguya/Juubi.


The same resonance that allows Zetsu to hijack Madara's control of the Juubi wouldn't allow him to hijack Naruto's control of the bijuu even though Naruto can hijack control of the bijuu in Kaguya with his attacks?

No matter how you view it, Naruto is still stronger than Madara

Reactions: Agree 3


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 8, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> *Same thing happened to Obito who was completely covered by black Zetsu and wasn't a Juubi jin, and he was able to resist BZ*
> 
> Same thing happened to Naruto and Sasuke who were held in place by a black Zetsu amped by Kaguya and Naruto fucking tore off BZ from himself.
> 
> ...


Obito with Gedo Mazou(Juubi Husk), Zetsu easily controls him.
Obito with Yang Kurama, Zetsu fails to control him.
Madara with Juubi, Zestu easily controls him.
Naruto with Multiple Bijuu, Zetsu fails to control him.

I think even you can see the pattern.


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## Kagutsutchi (Mar 8, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> Obito with Gedo Mazou(Juubi Husk), Zetsu easily controls him.
> Obito with Yang Kurama, Zetsu fails to control him.
> Madara with Juubi, Zestu easily controls him.
> Naruto with Multiple Bijuu, Zetsu fails to control him.
> ...


Yeah, Multiple Bijuu and Naruto>>>Juubi and Madara

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Crow (Mar 8, 2021)

Kaguya had to catch Isshiki off-guard to get the better of him, and it was stated that he's superior than Kaguya.  Isshiki>Kaguya>Judara. It's simple really.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## xingi (Mar 8, 2021)

JanessaLovesSylveonZ said:


> All the mental gymnastics to get around Isshiki getting owned by PF Kaguya oof


Same way madara fans use mental  gymnastics to get around the fact the he got solo'd by a zetsu

Reactions: Agree 4


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 8, 2021)

Crow said:


> Kaguya had to catch Isshiki off-guard to get the better of him, and it was stated that he's superior than Kaguya.  Isshiki>Kaguya>Judara. It's simple really.


The Kaguya that caught him off-guard is the WEAKEST version of her.




Kagutsutchi said:


> Yeah, Multiple Bijuu and Naruto>>>Juubi and Madara



Seriously?



xingi said:


> Same way madara fans use mental  gymnastics to get around the fact the he got solo'd by a zetsu


Madara lost to KAGUYA's will in a battle for controlling KAGUYA's power. The odds were already stacked against him.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## xingi (Mar 8, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> Madara lost to KAGUYA's will in a battle for controlling KAGUYA's power. The odds were already stacked against him.


Muh Kaguya's will was still a zetsu that snuck up on him an pierced through him.

All powerful juubi madara lost to a zetsu, nothing more

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

Appalling. I have no other word to describe what I'm reading in this accursed thread.

People who unironically use the "Zetsu killed Madara" argument against him are unironically the same people who think anyone with a knife could oneshot Hashirama.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Janessa Zoldyck (Mar 8, 2021)

Crow said:


> Kaguya had to catch Isshiki off-guard to get the better of him, and it was stated that he's superior than Kaguya.  Isshiki>Kaguya>Judara. It's simple really.


Catching someone off guard doesn't mean they didn't have a fight or anything. Should also be kept in mind Isshiki was stated to be low on Chakra implying they did fight.

Off guard or not someone supposedly weaker than you shouldn't be able to leave you torn in half like Kaguya did Isshiki. The implication is clear.

Reactions: Creative 2 | Lewd 1


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## xingi (Mar 8, 2021)

JanessaLovesSylveonZ said:


> Catching someone off guard doesn't mean they didn't have a fight or anything. Should also be kept in mind Isshiki was stated to be low on Chakra implying they did fight.


No it doesn't as a multiple things could have happened that resulted in him being low on chakra  like him already being low on chakra which is why Kaguya ambushed him for example. You can't  get anything from simply saying he was low on chakra without context.



JanessaLovesSylveonZ said:


> Off guard or not someone supposedly weaker than you shouldn't be able to leave you torn in half like Kaguya did Isshiki. The implication is clear.


Lol like zetsu caught ya boi off guard and ripped through his chest or  80% Momoshiki  literally ripping out Sasuke's eye in an ambush and even stated he wasn't trying to fight a heavily weakened Sasuke, if Momoshiki wasn't aiming for the rinnegan specifically  Sasuke's would've lost his head on the spot to someone much weaker

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Mawt (Mar 8, 2021)

I really hope that the whole "pre-fruit Kaguya > Isshiki" is being used ironically. Please tell me people don't actually believe this  

This is reaching "Asura Path blitzed Jiraiya" levels of dumb

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## T-Bag (Mar 8, 2021)

And what can Isshiki do to Madara exactly?

If "BRF" is all you got to use in an argument... it's pretty self explanatory he got nothing on madara and everyone on this board knows it. Running away from a stronger opponent doesn't prove your superiority. Isshiki is trying to fight him, not run away from him. Even in the case he would attempt to teleport Madara, eventually he has to face the threat. Either he goes to Madara or Madara goes to him.

The uchiha slaughters him. He's too much for the likes of isshiki


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

T-Bag said:


> And what can Isshiki do to Madara exactly?
> 
> If "BRF" is all you got to use in an argument... it's pretty self explanatory he got nothing on madara and everyone on this board knows it. Running away from a stronger opponent doesn't prove your superiority. Isshiki is trying to fight him, not run away from him. Even in the case he would attempt to teleport Madara, eventually he has to face the threat. Either he goes to Madara or Madara goes to him.
> 
> The uchiha slaughters him. He's too much for the likes of isshiki


Indeed. Madara can just oneshot with Infinite Tsukuyomi really.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## T-Bag (Mar 8, 2021)

Fused said:


> Indeed. Madara can just oneshot with Infinite Tsukuyomi really.


There’s genjutsu, limbo, shinra tensei, six paths Chibaku tensei.

although i dont see him using tsukuyomi or six paths techniques for this level of opponent. It’s like using a sledge hammer to kill an insect


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## Sufex (Mar 8, 2021)

Mawt said:


> Asura Path blitzed Jiraiya"

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

T-Bag said:


> There’s genjutsu, limbo, shinra tensei, six paths Chibaku tensei.
> 
> although i dont see him using tsukuyomi or six paths techniques for this level of opponent. It’s like using a sledge hammer to kill an insect


I'm pretty sure Madara oneshot with Infinite Tsukuyomi anyway in canon.

Since the Infinite Tsukuyomi was a super genjutsu that affected the entire planet and all those living in it. Which means that Jigen, Kara, and its associates would have been caught inside it too.

So canonically Madara won this match-up.

Madara even said that the radiant light of the Infinite Tsukuyomi could penetrate any barrier and any shadow.


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> He literally exploded when her chakra entered him



That made no sense at all.  The God Tree is able to control and house all that chakra from the planet Tf LMFAO. 

He didn't explode, He lost control over his body and Zetsu was overpowering Madara's will. Just like Obito when the juubi was overpowering his Will he was Getting bigger and bigger and looked like he was going to explode. 



To Say Madara couldn't control the chakra of Kaguya goes against what Hagoromo Just Stated what the God Tree does.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Naruto and Sasuke were in a similar situation versus Kaguya when black Zetsu attached himself to them, and Naruto could fucking tear him off.


When did Zetsu jam his Hand Through Naruto Or Sasukes chest from Behind?  


Kagutsutchi said:


> They were even in a worse situation since BZ covered half their bodies and was being amped by Kaguya, whereas Black Zetsu against Madara was amped by Obito and didn't cover his body.



Key word *Covered  their Bodies. *Zetsu was in front of them when he did that,  while he was Behind Madara and he Rammed his fist in Madara's chest. So how on god's Green Earth is that a similar situation?

Reactions: Like 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

xingi said:


> Same way madara fans use mental  gymnastics to get around the fact the he got solo'd by a zetsu


LMFAO coming from someone who Thinks Back Stabbing someone  is defeating them in combat...you're funny kiddo. 

PRe-Fruit Kaguya soloed Prime Isshiki.


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## xingi (Mar 8, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Zetsu soloed Prime juubidara


Agreed


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## Fused (Mar 8, 2021)

xingi said:


> Agreed


Plot hax solo'd Madara*


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## T-Bag (Mar 8, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> That made no sense at all.  The God Tree is able to control and house all that chakra from the planet Tf LMFAO.
> 
> He didn't explode, He lost control over his body and Zetsu was overpowering Madara's will. Just like Obito when the juubi was overpowering his Will he was Getting bigger and bigger and looked like he was going to explode.
> 
> ...


And it specifically says the tree uses the victims individual power/chakra for the caster to use.

even code, a failed otutsuk is capable of harvesting the chakra fruit but supposedly madara, now a full fledged otutsuki cant... Yeah.uhuh. Right lol.


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## Mawt (Mar 8, 2021)

Sufex said:


>


Nvm, Asura Path blitzing Jiraiya is canon

Reactions: Winner 2


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

xingi said:


> Agreed



You agreed Kaguya Solo Isshiki like canon stated?

Madara>>>>>>>Kaguya at her weakest.


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

@xingi  You need to accept your L with dignity.



Pre-fruit Kaguya Before she Gained the chakra Fruit defeated Isshiki.  Nowhere does it state she back stabbed him like you keep trying to associate the Zetsu &Madara Situation.

The only thing Was said was that He was off guard.


Which is fine Because Kojin was Off guard while in Combat and the most he got was some broken Bones, and Ribs...he wasn't missing half his body Nor was he Low on chakra and dying from Being off guard.

4th war Kaguya is Kaguya at her strongest and stated her Powers is beyond Measure by Adult Naruto and sasuke.


Your concession is accepted.


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## xingi (Mar 8, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> You agreed zetsu Solo madara like canon stated?






MYGod000 said:


> @xingi  You need to accept your L with dignity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







MYGod000 said:


> I concede, madara lost to zetsu


Concession accepted

Glad to see you finally came to your senses

Reactions: Funny 2


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

LMFAO dude still talking about Zetsu as if That is relevant to Kaguya Defeating Isshiki. 

Explain How Isshiki is going to do that to Madara when He struggled against Kojin. 

Your concession is Accepted.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 8, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Yes, He does.


No he doesnt


MYGod000 said:


> It not your fault, for not being able to understand.


I understand far more than you could ever hope to

Thatd be why Im in the right side of this debate and youre spouting utter nonsense while ignoring monumental stat gaps and a lack of hax defense on Madaras side in order to claim he wins

Cuz youre biased af and it makes your conclusions really silly 


MYGod000 said:


> Argument from ignorance


You dont know what this means

Cuz you didnt use it correctly


MYGod000 said:


> So Because he never attempted it while in JJ form means he can't do it?


Where did I say he cant do it?

All I said was its really stupid to argue that Madaras is bigger when weve never seen him use it as a JJ

And further that its stupid to argue that an avatars size correlates with power when by every fucking metric in the series, thats a lie

As I already proved with AA and BPS being = Sasukes PS/Narutos BM in size yet astronomically more powerful

Iso Susanoo is also the same size as Kurama/PS yet exponentially more powerful

Sasukes PS is less than half the size of Hashiramas SS yet orders of magnitude stronger

Etc

Your argument is bad

Full stop

It is legit a non sequitur to argue that avatar size decides power


MYGod000 said:


> I mean Sasuke and alive Madara have Six paths chakra, but only Madara has Senjutsu with his Six path chakra.


Yeah and despite Madara having both, Sasuke was still styling on him in their fight with just 1 

Tells you a lot about how their PSs would relate to one another 


MYGod000 said:


> Sasuke PS is equal in size to 50% Kurama


*50% Kurama amped by Yang Hagoromos chakra

And again, size means literally nothing to avatar strength

Unless you think Full Kurama > Rikudo BM Naruto 


MYGod000 said:


> while Madara's PS is bigger than Full 100% Kurama.


Its not tho

Its the same size

We see that when its shown equal in size to Mokujin, and Mokujin = Kurama in size




MYGod000 said:


> Sorry to say this...I really am, but who cares what you think.


Its...Not what I think????

Its a fact???

Look at the panel I posted

BM and BPS are blatantly the same size

What kind of argument was this supposed to be troll? 


MYGod000 said:


> We go off fact not personal Opinions.


Cool then you should have no issues going with what I just said

Because it is also a fact as is visibly evident

Posted the panels showing BPS = BM in size


MYGod000 said:


> Adult Sasuke has Six paths Chakra thanks to the Rinnegan, Madara also has Six paths chakra thank to the Rinnegan that he unlocked+Senjutsu chakra on top of that Six paths chakra.


And again

Despite Madara having Six Paths Senjutsu, he is still shown inferior to even a 16 year old Rikudo virgin Sasuke with barely any use of his own ability

This literally doesnt matter

Its not like Sasuke fought a "Base" JJ Madara who wasnt using Six Paths Senjutsu as he fought Sasuke...

Nah

Sasuke fought a full powered JJ Madara and DESPITE the fact that he has Six Paths Senjutsu, he got rocked at every turn.

Your argument here is stupid

Sasuke equalled Madara in all of his glory on panel

You dont get to stack buffs on top of Madara that Sasuke has already beaten and exceeded 

Lets flip the equation so you can see how stupid this argument sounds

"Sasuke was beating Madara around with just regular Six Paths power, Madara would be fucked if Sasuke used his Rinnegan amp as well"

See why this is stupid?

Sasukes SIx Paths Power = His Rinnegan

He was using said power TO FIGHT Madara at all in the first place

Similarly

Madaras Six Paths Power = Six Paths Senjutsu/Dojutsu

And he was using BOTH to fight Sasuke AT ALL in the first place as well

And he came up wanting regardless

Get over it


MYGod000 said:


> Why would I do that?


Because your entire premise would require you to

Or else youd be a hypocrite

If you think Madaras PS > Sasukes in power because of a difference in size (that you cant even prove as Ive already pointed out...As JJ Madara didnt even fucking use PS) then you ALSO need to believe that BM is equal to BPS in power because they are equal in size

You cant pick and choose


MYGod000 said:


> That irrelevant


No actually it really isnt

Your argument is that size = power

Yet despit ethe fact that BPS = BM in size its way stronger than the latter

And despite the fact that BM Naruto = BM Bee in size he is way stronger than Bee

These arent irrelvant

They are what youd call "debunks"

Of your entire premise


MYGod000 said:


> It does


No

No size does not correlate in a direct 1:1 with power

I have proven that with literally 4 different examples now


MYGod000 said:


> Your argument for BM Naruto was useless information


No actually it uses your logic to a T and shows you why yoru logic is stupid

Its not irrelevant at all

It just shits on you and you have no counter argument for it

So you are trying to discredit it without evidence instead

Which just makes you look bad and your argument even worse


MYGod000 said:


> even at half it body mass it still has more chakra than all the other Tailed Beast.


And likewise

Even without Six Paths Senjutsu, Sasuke was stronger or as strong as JJ Madara anyway

Meaning there is literally 0 reason to assume their PS relationship is any different

Especially since Sasuke was >=< JJ Madara WHEN HE WAS 16

Let alone after 2 decades of stated and shown improvement


MYGod000 said:


> Back to Isshiki he has no way to Beat Madara


Minus the fact he has enough physical strength to oneshot him, can drain him dry of chakra in minutes, can BFR him etc


MYGod000 said:


> He is much weaker than Him.


No

No he isnt


MYGod000 said:


> Pre-Fruit Kaguya beat him


No she didnt

She ambushed him

And he survived

And you say this like you can prove Madara scales to or above Pre Fruit Kaguya to begin with

Which you also cannot do

Considering he fucking DIED from her watered down chakra merely touching his body

So all around, yet another dumb argument


MYGod000 said:


> she is weaker than Madara.


Based on literally 0 information

Her chakra is strong enough to literally passively kill 3 eyed Madara when its been weakened by several Biju and Rikudo tier decreases in the WA

There is no proof whatsoever that he scales to a Peak Pre Fruit Kaguya

Who had already consumed several other fruits over who knows how long


MYGod000 said:


> Everyone claim they Demon till it time to go down to that place.


This doesnt even make sense

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## jonnty6 (Mar 8, 2021)

Curious, if the potential flashback shows kaguya eating the fruit and THEN attacking isshiki will this make isshiki look good or bad?


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## T-Bag (Mar 8, 2021)

kayz said:


> And we don't know exactly if it was Pre or Post-F Kaguya who damaged Isshiki. Since Kaguya had her rinnesharingan on the forehead in the flashback.


Most likely a mistake or retcon..
But just a fyi: Databook 4 openly states she awakened the eye after eating the fruit


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## Simpleguy (Mar 8, 2021)

jonnty6 said:


> Curious, if the potential flashback shows kaguya eating the fruit and THEN attacking isshiki will this make isshiki look good or bad?


Good also question how do you guys post scans?


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 8, 2021)

jonnty6 said:


> Curious, if the potential flashback shows kaguya eating the fruit and THEN attacking isshiki will this make isshiki look good or bad?


The stronger Kaguya was when she attacked Isshiki -> The better Isshiki looks 


Simpleguy said:


> Good also question how do you guys post scans?


You can either click the button on the top of the post box that says "insert image" and then paste a secure (https) image URL like this...



Or you can click the button that says insert link, and then  by posting the secure link to said text.


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## kayz (Mar 8, 2021)

jonnty6 said:


> Curious, if the potential flashback shows kaguya eating the fruit and THEN attacking isshiki will this make isshiki look good or bad?


The reality is that it does nothing for Madara in this fight since Mads can't be scale to Pre-fruit Kaguya. We don't know how powerful that version of Kaguya is.
Just a bit of Kaguya, Zetsu, soloed Madara in the War Arc.


There are many possibilities to what happened in the past:

1. It's possible Kaguya also merged with the shinju regardless of the fruit being matured.

2. Also possible Kaguya could have siphoned chakra from people caught in Infinite Tsukuyomi. She could do that in the War Arc through her root dimension.

3. Possibility Isshiki was already low on chakra during that battle.


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## kayz (Mar 8, 2021)

Simpleguy said:


> Good also question how do you guys post scans?


Register on imgur.com

Upload scans to imgur.

Copy the scan link (forums link) from imgur and paste it here.


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## MYGod000 (Mar 8, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No he doesnt
> 
> I understand far more than you could ever hope to
> 
> ...



I'm not going to go over all that don't have the time for it.

You Replied to My comment About JJ Madara using PS as fanfic. so it shouldn't be hard to understand.


Sasuke Gained BPS using 1-9 tailed beast and he only had half of the 9 tails like Madara.


Momoshiki Ate many Fruit as well yet he didn't evolve, Its obviously not about How many Fruits you consume. quality over Quantity.

part of your Post was invalid because you gave out a personal opinion, we don't argue from personal Belief on here.

That was the Weakest Version of Kaguya that defeated Isshiki,  While Madara was rival to the strongest Version.



It took Both pre-JJ Hagoromo+Hamura to Handle the Juubi, and Madara Absorbed the Juubi.


We find out that Hagoromo was fearful of the juubi.


The fact is you can't prove there wasn't a fight Between Kaguya and Isshiki out side your personal Belief, they already laid it out to you in the manga when they said He was *low on Chakra.  * You don't just randomly get low on chakra on the verge of death if a Battle didn't take place.

4th War Kaguya is stated to be the strongest Version of her *with power beyond Measure stated by Adult Sasuke and Naruto.*

He literally can't beat Madara, he has no counter for his Immortality, He can't see Limbo, he has no counter for I.T

If you read the Manga, she Attacked Isshiki Before she stole the fruit.  The God Tree in boruto can't grow without Sacrificing an Otsutsuki.  Isshiki wanted to Sacrifice  Kaguya which didn't happen.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## JayK (Mar 8, 2021)

Sufex said:


> Madara has full power and 2 Rinnegan, knows that a outuskiki is coming to take over earth
> 
> Isshiki has knows that a strong warrior is on earth before he can take it over.
> 
> ...


see what you have done

you make monkeys here create dupes over dupes comforting each other over Madara's standing

wouldn't be surprised if we have another ShazG situation with people talking to themselves

those poor people suffering from schizophrenia

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Sufex (Mar 8, 2021)

JayK said:


> see what you have done
> 
> you make monkeys here create dupes over dupes comforting each other over Madara's standing
> 
> ...


The fire rises


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 8, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> I'm not going to go over all that


Concession accepted then  


MYGod000 said:


> You Replied to My comment About JJ Madara using PS as fanfic.


Nope

I said it was stupid to say that a JJ susanoo weve never seen is larger than Rinnegan Sasukes that we have seen

Want the quote?

Here it is


WorldsStrongest said:


> Ah yes
> The utterly nonexistent PS is so much bigger than Sasukes that we actually saw
> 
> How do you type this shit out?
> ...





WorldsStrongest said:


> Even if you were able to prove that Madaras nonexistent PS is larger than Sasukes (you cant) it doesnt mean shit as avatar size doesnt correlate with power especially in God tier


Point to a single part of any of my posts where I said PS JJ Madara is fanfic...

You cant do it because it didnt happen

Stop putting words in my mouth

I know what I said and so does everyone reading this thread laughing at your replies in it 


MYGod000 said:


> Sasuke Gained BPS using 1-9 tailed beast and he only had half of the 9 tails like Madara.


Which he gained on top of his already 3 eyed JJ Madara level power

Madara on the other hand needed all the Bijus/Juubi power AND the SHinju AND Six Paths Senjutsu AND the Rinnegan AND the 3rd Eye just to be in BASE Rikudo Sasukes tier AT ALL to begin withh

Thats what youre not understanding 

Sasuke PRE VOTE AMP is already ON PAR with JJ Madara

He then gets A PLANET SIZED AMP ON TOP OF THAT 

An amp that Madara DOESNT GET 

Maybe this will help visualize it

*Note, numbers arent meant to be accurate gaps, just placeholders, so dont do a stupid and strawman me with something like "lol wtf you think the Juubi is only X times stronger than Y character or whatever

EMS Sasuke = 5

DRSM Madara = 10

Juubi power = 100

JJ Madara = 110 

Shinju JJ Madara = 140

Rinnegan Teen Sasuke = 150 

3 Eyed Madara = 160 

Rinnegan Sasuke is already on par with JJ Madaras power...With all of his additional amps and bells and whistles, Sasuke was still able to fuck him up in multiple exchanges 

Sasuke then gains immense additional power IN ADDITION TO his ALREADY JJ TIER Base state

And as a result, far outstrips Madara overall

Its really not that hard to grasp 


MYGod000 said:


> Momoshiki Ate many Fruit as well yet he didn't evolve,


Has literally 0 bearing on anything I said but cool beans 

But also



Thats their entire point in making divine tress to begin with 


MYGod000 said:


> part of your Post was invalid


Nope

None of it was 

Love to see how youre gonna strawman me in order to believe it was tho


MYGod000 said:


> because you gave out a personal opinion


Ah

There it is

No bud

Nothing Ive said has been a personal belief and all of it has been backed with canon evidence 

Every shred of it

This is now the 2nd time in this thread alone that you have written off canonical citation from me as "opinion"

And its nonsensical 


MYGod000 said:


> we don't argue from personal Belief on here.


Its literally all your entire post history has been actually

Especially when you spew such nonsense as "Isshiki is weaker than JJ Madara" when one of them has blatantly superior physical showings

Find me that scan of JJ Madara oneshotting a Rikudo fucking avatar with Taijutsu alone

Find me a scan of him oneshotting a Rikudo avatar using ANYTHING 

Oh wait it doesnt exist

So you made a fool out of yourself

Good chat 


MYGod000 said:


> That was the Weakest Version of Kaguya that defeated Isshiki


No it wasnt  

The weakest version of Kaguya would be her farts that dont even exist as a physical entity yet...That still had enough power to kill Madara when they entered him

Its outright stated that the chakra that initially entered Madara and took over his body <<<< Kaguya herself when she stabilizes takes control of the body

Sasuke cant even believe that Kaguya exists shes so much stronger than what madara was 5 seconds ago

And again...Stop saying Kaguya defeated Isshiki when they never fought

She backstabbed him

And he survived

How would you like it if I started saying "Black Zetsu defeated Madara"

Both those arguments are at the same level of stupid  

Except Madara looks 10x worse because he DOESNT survive what Zetsu does to him in the end despite Zetsu being fodder who ambushed him

Yet Isshiki DOES survive what Kaguya did to him...Despite being ambushed by a God tier

TLDR stop saying stupid shit


MYGod000 said:


> It took Both pre-JJ Hagoromo+Hamura to Handle the Juubi


No

Hag and Ham fought JJ Kaguya

Kaguya and BZ straight up confirm this 

You dont know what youre talking about 


MYGod000 said:


> Madara Absorbed the Juubi.


No

Madara absorbed a watered down Juubi that had its chakra split and shared among the entirety of the human race, and was missing half of Kurama on top of that


MYGod000 said:


> We find out that Hagoromo was fearful of the juubi


No he wasnt  

Stop saying such outlandish things to wank your anime crush

Follow this VERY simple chain

• Berserk Juubito > Juubi - this is outright stated and shown multiple times
• Controlled Juubito > Berserk Juubito - Ditto 
• Pre Shinju JJ Madara > Controlled Juubito - Directly stated 

So we get

Pre Shinju JJ Madara > Peak juubito > Berserk Juubito > Juubi (which you hilariously claim Hagoromo is scared of) 

SECOND VERY simple chain I want you to follow 

• SPSM Naruto with no Biju cloak >>> Pre Shinju JJ Madara - Literally stuffed Madara with a smile on his face, Madara himself states the result had nothing to do with his injuries sustained fighting Gai, Narutos power and attacks literally scare Madara and he himself directly states this in an inner monologue, he is forced into immediately using Limbo which does nothing at all for him
• SPSM Naruto = 50% of Hagoromos power - This is directly stated multiple times


So we CONSERVATIVELY get the following 

100% Hagoromo >>> 50% Hagoromo = SPSM Naruto > Pre Shinju JJ Madara > Peak Juubito > Berserk Juubito > Juubi (which you hilariously claim hagoromo is scared of) 

So like...Do you get why your opinion is a crack whore now????

50% of Hagoromo has STRAIGHT UP BETTER FEATS THAN EVEN AMPED JJs

How in the name of fuck can you claim with a straight face that Full Hagoromo is scared of the Juubis power  


MYGod000 said:


> The fact is you can't prove there wasn't a fight Between Kaguya and Isshiki


I DONT NEED TO PROVE A NEGATIVE

YOU NEED TO PROVE A POSITIVE 

YOU NEED TO PROVE THEY FOUGHT

I DO NOT NEED TO DISPROVE SOMETHING THAT DIDNT HAPPEN

LEARN HOW TO DEBATE 




MYGod000 said:


> hey already laid it out to you in the manga




I know

You dont 

Thats the issue 


MYGod000 said:


> 4th War Kaguya is stated to be the strongest Version of her


No she isnt

Nice fanfic tho

And she wouldnt be by common sense 

Prime Post Fruit Kaguya (the one Hag and Ham fought) > WA Kaguya > Pre Fruit Kaguya

And wanna know which versions of her you can scale Madara to?

Not a single damn one of them

Not one 

As her essence ALONE is enough to gut the man AT HIS STRONGEST 


MYGod000 said:


> He literally can't beat Madara


He ragdolled 2 people with better feats and scaling than Madara does individually 

He is physically far faster and stronger than anything Madara has ever seen, he has hax Jutsu that Madara has no counter to (being shrinking and BFR and his chakra rods)

He beats the piss out of Madara

Get over it 

Your arguments are shit


MYGod000 said:


> he has no counter for his Immortalit


BFR gg


MYGod000 said:


> He can't see Limbo


He can SEE FUCKING LIFESPANS and can SENSE ACROSS DIMENSIONS ON PAR WITH SPSM USERS

He negs Limbo

Stop saying stupid shit 


MYGod000 said:


> he has no counter for I.T


Minus BFR you mean


MYGod000 said:


> If you read the Manga


I did

You didnt

Thats why your arguments are garbage from start to finish

Reactions: Like 2


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Concession accepted then
> 
> Nope
> 
> ...




All those Numbers you gave out where Head canon.

Sasuke EMS Sasuke was weaker than BM Kurama Naruto and Madara Negg Diff him and 8 other  Tailed Beast while having 1 Rinnegan.


All I said was Sasuke PS was 4 x smaller than Madara's PS which is true. I don't even need to go into a  Hypothetically JJ amped PS from Madara.

You Said My arguments Was Garbage from start to Finish, yet you can't Prove  for the Life of you why Momoshiki never evolved until after he ate Kinshiki.



^Yet he never evolved, until He ate Kinshiki.    If Transformed Momoshiki= Momoshiki+ Kinshiki combined powers...then I can(Even those I was on the fens about  this Argument, but it sounds more and more plausible  now) Argue Kaguya Feed The Lower Half of Isshiki's body to the Ten tails creating the Divine Tree Fruit Transforming Kaguya into the Rabbit Demon.


You can't Argue against this Because of the Manga Statements:





Since Hagoromo Stated At some point  After she Ate the Fruit she became the Rabbit Goddess.

Rabbit Demon Kaguya=Pre-Fruit Kaguya+Prime Lower body Isshiki

Hagoromo also stated at one point Kaguya Was the strongest, Implying he surpassed Her that she had back then.

*


*






Madara>Hagoromo

Yeah, Kaguya after she transformed is way beyond Prime Isshiki, Hagoromo is more powerful than Isshiki, Madara is more powerful than Isshiki, 4th War Kaguya is more powerful than Prime Isshiki.

*In boruto the Condition of the Creating a Divine Tree you need to sacrifice a Living Otsutsuki Member.

I'll accept your concession.  *

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

@Code  You're Disagreeing but you're not disagreeing with me your disagreeing with the Manga which clearly states the condition to create a God Tree and make it grow.




Isshiki was missing half his body, and the only way for Kaguya to Make her divine tree Grow is by sacrificing Otsutsuki. 


Hagoromo Stated she didn't become a Demon until After she Ate the Fruit.  Explain how she obtained the Fruit, and what happened to Isshiki's Lower body? 


When you explain these occurrences let me know until then Your Concession is accepted.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sparks (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> ^Yet he never evolved, until He ate Kinshiki.    If Transformed Momoshiki= Momoshiki+ Kinshiki combined powers...then I can(Even those I was on the fens about  this Argument, but it sounds more and more plausible  now) Argue Kaguya Feed The Lower Half of Isshiki's body to the Ten tails creating the Divine Tree Fruit Transforming Kaguya into the Rabbit.
> 
> *In boruto the Condition of the Creating a Divine Tree you need to sacrifice a Living Otsutsuki Member.
> 
> I'll accept your concession.  *


For the first point, I'd say that the amount of data contained in an *average* fruit is probably menial compared to the data quantity within an Otsutsuki, hence why no significant physical changes manifest with Momo when he eats a single fruit but does with Kinshiki, who would contain vastly more data.

It's dubious whether Isshiki's lower half could be used as a sacrifice to grow the tree. Even if certain cell types still technically remain alive for a time after the heart stops, I doubt such a thing would bypass the sacrifice requirement. Since we know chakra fruit quality is heavily dependent on the sacrifce:

Healthy living Otsutsuki = 100% Extracted Perfect Vessel > Partially Extracted Perfect Vessel > 100% Extracted Imperfect Vessel (likely >>>>>>) Half a Half Dead Corpse

Kaguya likely tried prepping vessels for the sacrifice using Karma, hence the connection between Karma and Byakugou.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Creative 1


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## Simpleguy (Mar 9, 2021)

kayz said:


> Register on imgur.com
> 
> Upload scans to imgur.
> 
> Copy the scan link (forums link) from imgur and paste it here.


Thanks this will be useful for my thread


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

"Holy Tree, Ten Tails, absorbed by Madara... ALL Chakra returns to Madara's own hands!"

"A final opportunity came to mature! With both eyes recovered, the true power of Six Paths was unleashed by Madara!"

"With Naruto and his friends' opposition OUT OF THE WAY"

Narutoforums: "Huh, guys, is Madara strong? I think he's weak. I think either Sasuke or Naruto individually could have beaten him."

Kishimoto: "*WITH* *NARUTO AND HIS FRIENDS' OPPOSITION OUT OF THE WAY!!!!!!!"*

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> @Code  You're Disagreeing but you're not disagreeing with me your disagreeing with the Manga which clearly states the condition to create a God Tree and make it grow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My son @Sparks  explained everything


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> "Holy Tree, Ten Tails, absorbed by Madara... ALL Chakra returns to Madara's own hands!"
> 
> "A final opportunity came to mature! With both eyes recovered, the true power of Six Paths was unleashed by Madara!"
> 
> ...


Outdated information and useless hype is outdated information and useless hype.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Outdated information and useless hype is outdated information and useless hype.


No, it's "outdated information and useless hype" because you hate Madara and think he's weak.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> No, it's "outdated information and useless hype" because you hate Madara and think he's weak.


No, its outdated information and useless hype since it is. Much like Itachi's water fang jutsu having 'lightspeed attack', that databook page is useless hype that has no place in a debate due to hyperbole. Not only that it IS outdated since Madara didn't have 'all of chakra in his hands' since that's scattered around the universe.

And no, I don't hate Madara. he was a very good villain. But he was surpassed by Naruto and Sasuke (and they're far weaker than their adult selves), turned into a balloon by Kaguya's sheer power, and every single main villain has surpassed him in power and importance. Momoshiki was stronger and Isshiki is stronger.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, its outdated information and useless hype since it is. Much like Itachi's water fang jutsu having 'lightspeed attack', that databook page is useless hype that has no place in a debate due to hyperbole. Not only that it IS outdated since Madara didn't have 'all of chakra in his hands' since that's scattered around the universe.
> 
> And no, I don't hate Madara. he was a very good villain. But he was surpassed by Naruto and Sasuke (and they're far weaker than their adult selves), turned into a balloon by Kaguya's sheer power, and every single main villain has surpassed him in power and importance. Momoshiki was stronger and Isshiki is stronger.


False. That's the author's word. Period. 

You not liking it doesn't change the fact that these words were written and came out of Kishimoto's mind. That's the story envisioned by Kishimoto. A story where Madara had all chakra in his hands and removed all opposition, before being betrayed by the creature he trusted.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> False. That's the author's word. Period.
> 
> You not liking it doesn't change the fact that these words were written and came out of Kishimoto's mind. That's the story envisioned by Kishimoto. A story where Madara had all chakra in his hands and removed all opposition, before being betrayed by the creature he trusted.


You do know how Word of God is applied in versus debates, right? You do know what hyperbole even *is* right?


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do know how Word of God is applied in versus debates, right? You do know what hyperbole even *is* right?


This isn't a VS debate, this is people ignoring the story to apply their little headcanons, claiming that Madara was weaker than Naruto and Sasuke when Kishimoto made it clear he had removed all opposition and his plans had been accomplished.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> This isn't a VS debate, this is people ignoring the story to apply their little headcanons, claiming that Madara was weaker than Naruto and Sasuke when Kishimoto made it clear he had removed all opposition and his plans had been accomplished.


Kishimoto claimed that...when Naruto and Sasuke countered *every single thing he did, *cut him in half and turned him into a pinball. Kishimoto made some literal useless hype while _showing_ Madara's place on the totem pole of power. That's what you don't get. And you don't even know what a hyperbole is...and last I checked this IS a versus debate and you're trying to use that databook page as EVIDENCE that Madara is stronger than Isshiki. Seriously, you fail so much at this stuff.


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kishimoto claimed that...*when Naruto and Sasuke countered every single thing he did, cut him in half and turned him into a pinball*. Kishimoto made some literal useless hype while _showing_ Madara's place on the totem pole of power. That's what you don't get. And you don't even know what a hyperbole is...and last I checked this IS a versus debate and you're trying to use that databook page as EVIDENCE that Madara is stronger than Isshiki. Seriously, you fail so much at this stuff.


BS!
The moment he got his other Rinnegan they couldn't even touch him. 
He referred to them as nothing but a sideshow. 
Opened the third eye and Sasuke ran like lil b#$ch to protect Naruto from getting One-Shotted by IT


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kishimoto claimed that...when Naruto and Sasuke countered *every single thing he did, *cut him in half and turned him into a pinball. Kishimoto made some literal useless hype while _showing_ Madara's place on the totem pole of power. That's what you don't get. And you don't even know what a hyperbole is...and last I checked this IS a versus debate and you're trying to use that databook page as EVIDENCE that Madara is stronger than Isshiki. Seriously, you fail so much at this stuff.


Which is what happened.

In the story, Madara was overwhelmed by Naruto and Sasuke's newfound powers.

Hence why Madara was more preoccupied with getting his second Rinnegan back, and avoided fighting them.

Once he got the other Rinnegan back, he effortlessly overpowered them without even moving a limb.

Pay attention to the story.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> BS!
> The moment he got his other Rinnegan they couldn't even touch him.
> He referred to them as nothing but a sideshow.
> Opened the third eye and Sasuke ran like lil b#$ch to protect Naruto from getting One-Shotted by IT


The moment Madara got his other Rinnegan _he fled the battle_, distracted Naruto and Sasuke with Limbo Clones and meteors and cast Mugen Tsukuyomi. At _no point_ he engaged them and Naruto and Sasuke countered _*ALL OF THAT!* _Do you have selective memory? Madara didn't engage them. He fucking _ran away and made it as hard as possible for Naruto and Sasuke to attack him directly!_


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> Which is what happened.
> 
> In the story, Madara was overwhelmed by Naruto and Sasuke's newfound powers.
> 
> ...


Where did he 'overpower' them?! Naruto dealt with his Limbo Clone spam with ease. Naruto countered his Chibaku Tensei meteors with ease. For fuck's sake do you guys have selective memory? Madara _GTFO_ since he didn't have a chance fighting them! How do you even claim that Madara 'dealt with them with ease' when Naruto and Sasuke dealt with his techniques with ease and he didn't even bother FIGHTING! 


The fuck happened to the Naruto Battledome?! How is this poor excse of debating considered acceptable here?!


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The moment Madara got his other Rinnegan _he fled the battle_, distracted Naruto and Sasuke with Limbo Clones and meteors and cast Mugen Tsukuyomi. At _no point_ he engaged them and Naruto and Sasuke countered _*ALL OF THAT!* _Do you have selective memory? Madara didn't engage them. He fucking _ran away and made it as hard as possible for Naruto and Sasuke to attack him directly!_


"He fled the battle", you make it sound like Madara "fled" because he was afraid, when in reality he "fled" because he saw those fools as a mere sideshow, and was more preoccupied with completing the plan he had been working on for over a century.

And it seems you're the one with selective memory:



Oh look, Madara WITH BOTH RINNEGAN effortlessly overpowering his enemies without even moving a limb.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> "He fled the battle", you make it sound like Madara "fled" because he was afraid, when in reality he "fled" because he saw those fools as a mere sideshow, and was more preoccupied with completing the plan he had been working on for over a century.
> 
> And it seems you're the one with selective memory:
> 
> ...


He used Limbo Clones to block and immediately fled the battle. How do you spin a retreat that was DEALT WITH by Naruto and Sasuke as anything other than Madara fleeing the battle?


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He used Limbo Clones to block and immediately fled the battle. How do you spin a retreat that was DEALT WITH by Naruto and Sasuke as anything other than Madara fleeing the battle?


And you are spinning him "fleeing the battle" as him admitting inferiority, when that's completely false and contradictory of the story.

Madara never lost his composure and went as far as to call that skirmish as a mere sideshow. That's not the attitude of someone who is getting beaten down so bad that they need to flee the battle.

And you think Madara was going all out when he used the Limbo clones and Catastrophic Chibaku Tensei to hold the enemies at bay? You understand that was just a quick diversion to buy enough time to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi? As if the fact that he didn't break a sweat when creating those massive Chibaku Tensei (which made Pain's look like ants) wasn't proof enough.

If anything it's telling that Naruto and Sasuke were locked down fighting what Madara threw at them, when Madara wasn't even going all out and was just looking for a quick diversion.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> And you are spinning him "fleeing the battle" as him admitting inferiority, when that's completely false and contradictory of the story.
> 
> Madara never lost composure and went as far as to call that skirmish as a mere sideshow. That's not the attitude of someone who is getting beaten down so bad that they need to flee the battle.
> 
> And you think Madara was going all out when he used the Limbo clones and Catastrophic Chibaku Tensei to hold the enemies at bay? You understand that was just a quick diversion to buy enough time to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi? As if the fact that he didn't break a sweat when creating those massive Chibaku Tensei (which made Pain's look like ants) wasn't proof enough.


Madara blocked Sakura who rushed in and ruined whatever plan Naruto and Sasuke were going for since she had no idea Limbo Clones existed. 'The skirmish was below him'? Naruto and Sasuke dealt with EVERYTHING Madara threw at them and he was focused on getting Mugen Tsukuyomi up to try to deprive them of their support.

Fused. You suck at this. You suck at debating. Madara fled since he couldn't win the battle then and there, he prioritized Mugen Tsukuyomi because it would increase his odds. If Naruto and Sasuke were _weaker_ than him they wouldn't have had such an easy time with Madara's attacks.


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Madara blocked Sakura who rushed in and ruined whatever plan Naruto and Sasuke were going for since she had no idea Limbo Clones existed. 'The skirmish was below him'? Naruto and Sasuke dealt with EVERYTHING Madara threw at them and he was focused on getting Mugen Tsukuyomi up to try to deprive them of their support.
> 
> Fused. You suck at this. You suck at debating. Madara fled since he couldn't win the battle then and there, he prioritized Mugen Tsukuyomi because it would increase his odds. If Naruto and Sasuke were _weaker_ than him they wouldn't have had such an easy time with Madara's attacks.


Naruto and Sasuke were also pushed away by the attack, also Yes that skirmish was below him, hence why he called it a mere sideshow in an utterly unimpressed tone.

And the fact that Naruto and Sasuke dealt with his attacks doesn't mean anything, because again Madara clearly wasn't being serious. He literally just created the bare minimum he needed to protect his ritual of Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Also tone it down, discuss with me without using insults and being rude.


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## Simpleguy (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> Naruto and Sasuke were also pushed away by the attack, also Yes that skirmish was below him, hence why he called it a mere sideshow in an utterly unimpressed tone.
> 
> And the fact that Naruto and Sasuke dealt with his attacks doesn't mean anything, because again Madara clearly wasn't being serious. He literally just created the bare minimum he needed to protect his ritual of Infinite Tsukuyomi.
> 
> Also tone it down, discuss with me without using insults and being rude.


Don't know why I am joining since I suck at debating but here goes my take
Well Madara is a little arrogant so him calling it a slideshow could merely be self confidence upon gaining both Rinnegan

Even if he wasn't serious the fact that they could deal with causal attacks easily is saying something also I agree with SuperSaiyanman that Madara did that to increase his odds

We shall try to be polite

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

Simpleguy said:


> Don't know why I am joining since I suck at debating but here goes my take
> Well Madara is a little arrogant so him calling it a slideshow could merely be self confidence upon gaining both Rinnegan
> 
> Even if he wasn't serious the fact that they could deal with causal attacks easily is saying something also I agree with SuperSaiyanman that Madara did that to increase his odds
> ...


Following that logic then Madara could also deal with Naruto and Sasuke's casual attacks.

People constantly bring up Sasuke bisecting Madara as "evidence" that Sasuke was stronger than Madara, yet Madara casually shrugged off that damage and regenerated it later. That damage was so meaningless to him that he had an entire conversation with Obito without even regenerating his lower body, that's how much that damage hurt him, and he didn't even have a second Rinnegan back then.


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## Simpleguy (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> Following that logic then Madara could also deal with Naruto and Sasuke's casual attacks.
> 
> People constantly bring up Sasuke bisecting Madara as "evidence" that Sasuke was stronger than Madara, yet Madara casually shrugged off that damage and regenerated it later. That damage was so meaningless to him that he had an entire conversation with Obito without even regenerating his lower body, that's how much that damage hurt him, and he didn't even have a second Rinnegan back then.


Exactly if they didn't have trouble dealing with his casual attacks they could counter his serious ones 

Nah Naruto and Sasuke were stronger than one Rinnegan Madara because why else did he want his second Rinnegan? Simple because he was weaker than them with one

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

Simpleguy said:


> Exactly if they didn't have trouble dealing with his casual attacks they could counter his serious ones
> 
> Nah Naruto and Sasuke were stronger than one Rinnegan Madara because why else did he want his second Rinnegan? Simple because he was weaker than them with one


They didn't even deal with his stronger attacks. Limbo clones and Catastrophic Chibaku Tensei were casual attacks he used to buy himself just the time he needed to launch the Infinite Tsukuyomi. The bare minimum. Nothing more.

If anything, it says a lot about Madara's power if he effortlessly created like 20 catastrophic Chibaku Tensei in 2 seconds. Now imagine if he was actually trying, and wasn't shrugging it off as a mere sideshow in anticipation for the Infinite Tsukuyomi.


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## Simpleguy (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> They didn't even deal with his stronger attacks. Limbo clones and Catastrophic Chibaku Tensei were casual attacks he used to buy himself just the time he needed to launch the Infinite Tsukuyomi. The bare minimum. Nothing more.
> 
> If anything, it says a lot about Madara's power if he effortlessly created like 20 catastrophic Chibaku Tensei in 2 seconds. Now imagine if he was actually trying, and wasn't shrugging it off as a mere sideshow in anticipation for the Infinite Tsukuyomi.


I am just saying that they could have dealt with his attacks if he were to go serious

He didn't create 20 there were five or six and it took more than 2 seconds


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

Simpleguy said:


> I am just saying that they could have dealt with his attacks if he were to go serious
> 
> He didn't create 20 there were five or six and it took more than 2 seconds


You're right. He didn't create 20 Planetary Chibaku Tensei, he created more than 20:



I count roughly 25 Planetary Chibaku Tensei, some of which are being formed during this panel.

He took a few seconds to create them, and he did so effortlessly. Given how they were created in the span of 2/3 panels, he clearly did it very quickly and, obviously, without breaking a sweat.

This is the power of Madara when he's not even trying by the way.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Sparks said:


> For the first point, I'd say that the amount of data contained in an *average* fruit is probably menial compared to the data quantity within an Otsutsuki, hence why no significant physical changes manifest with Momo when he eats a single fruit but does with Kinshiki, who would contain vastly more data.



My point was The Quantities of God Trees he ate is not relevant because none of them gave him any significant boost, until he Ate Kinshiki.  For the Most part Kinshiki was on The Verge of Death as well when it happened.  Earth had already  gained a chakra fruit yet it didn't  die at all even those it stated once a Chakra fruit is formed the planet dies and then they find a new planet. 






Sparks said:


> It's dubious whether Isshiki's lower half could be used as a sacrifice to grow the tree. Even if certain cell types still technically remain alive for a time after the heart stops, I doubt such a thing would bypass the sacrifice requirement. Since we know chakra fruit quality is heavily dependent on the sacrifce:



At this Point I'm just going to say it what ever the Writers want. 


Sparks said:


> Healthy living Otsutsuki = 100% Extracted Perfect Vessel > Partially Extracted Perfect Vessel > 100% Extracted Imperfect Vessel (likely >>>>>>) Half a Half Dead Corpse


She doesn't Need a vessel, since We know enslaving a planet in I.T  can also Create a chakra Fruit.  For the Most part It never stated Kaguya Had a Vessel back then and Isshiki was too Weakened to Make one. 


He was on the Verge of Death and Didn't have the chakra needed to cast a Karma. 



Sparks said:


> Kaguya likely tried prepping vessels for the sacrifice using Karma, hence the connection between Karma and Byakugou.



You need to prove she had Vessels and there is nothing in manga which Implies she Had  one.  Since Isshiki was too Weak to make one he didn't have any as well.  



 From this We can conclude:

-Amando didn't fully understand the process himself and was giving out a Rough Draft
- Isshiki didn't have enough chakra to implant a Karma
-Nothing was ever stated that Kaguya had implanted a Karma
- Earth has already Had Chakra Fruit grown on it and it didn't die like Amando  implied

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Code said:


> My son @Sparks  explained everything



he gave out his opinions,  which doesn't explain anything and left more question. 

Like I said just said, From Amando own Statements After  The Otsutsuki extract the information the planet Eventually dies.

Yet earth has already had a chakra fruit and didn't die at all. 

Isshiki didn't have time to implant a Karma, and  it was never stated Kaguya did either.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## blk (Mar 9, 2021)

T-Bag said:


> And what can Isshiki do to Madara exactly?



I was thinking something like one shotting with a single punch

Reactions: Funny 1 | Kage 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He used Limbo Clones to block and immediately fled the battle. How do you spin a retreat that was DEALT WITH by Naruto and Sasuke as anything other than Madara fleeing the battle?




He calls them a *Sideshow. *



Sasuke calls Both Sakura+Kakashi useless against Madara. 



Naruto's shadow clones lost to Madara's Limbo clones, since it implied Genjutsu barely works against Them.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## xingi (Mar 9, 2021)

blk said:


> I was thinking something like one shotting with a single punch


Isshiki will beat him until he begs like garuo in the last episode  

Its going to be even worse of a slaughter because madara cannot see isshiki's rods as only the sharingan(barely) and bayron naruto could track them.  Madara and his limbos will be looking  like porcupines as they get their asses beat


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## Bob74h (Mar 9, 2021)

isshiki cant see limbo clones how is going to fight something that he cant see move


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## xingi (Mar 9, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> isshiki cant see limbo clones how is going to fight something that he cant see move


I'll go along with the head canon that he cant see or sense limbo. Even in that situation it's not the big trump card madara cultist think it is. Madara is going to be forced to use limbo defensively against isshiki's onslaught, if they do survive they'd already have multiple rods strong enough to pin down a juubi going through them

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

xingi said:


> Isshiki will beat him until he begs like garuo in the last episode
> 
> Its going to be even worse of a slaughter because madara cannot see isshiki's rods as only the sharingan(barely) and bayron naruto could track them.  Madara and his limbos will be looking  like porcupines as they get their asses beat


You know that Madara can switch off his Rinnegan and activate his Sharingan, right? He can switch between the two ocular powers:



Why do you think Madara had his Sharingan when he died? It's because he didn't even have enough chakra left to reactivate the Rinnegan. Meaning that he can switch off the Rinnegan and use the Sharingan if need be:


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

xingi said:


> Isshiki will beat him until he begs like garuo in the last episode
> 
> Its going to be even worse of a slaughter because madara cannot see isshiki's rods as only the sharingan(barely) and bayron naruto could track them.  Madara and his limbos will be looking  like porcupines as they get their asses beat



He couldn't even do that to Kojin who could fight him and not die by a single punch. 

He isn't doing anything to Madara






Stop Wasting my time Troll, you have nothing that even plausible for Isshiki to win.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> isshiki cant see limbo clones how is going to fight something that he cant see move



He can't see it or touch it since you need six paths Sage chakra to even begin to affect them.


Good luck To Isshiki wankers even proving Isshiki has Six paths Sage chakra.

We know from Urashiki The OTsutsuki's don't utilize Sage chakra at all.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## xingi (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> You know that Madara can switch off his Rinnegan and activate his Sharingan, right? He can switch between the two ocular powers:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think Madara had his Sharingan when he died? It's because he didn't even have enough chakra left to reactivate the Rinnegan. Meaning that he can switch off the Rinnegan and use the Sharingan if need be:


Why lol, assuming  jj madara can do that, why would he switch it off? Who is going to give him Intel about isshiki's rods lmaoo


MYGod000 said:


> He couldn't even do that to Kojin who could fight him and not die by a single punch.
> 
> He isn't doing anything to Madara
> 
> ...


Good thing only tenten level fighter is needed to go through madara...

Reactions: Funny 3


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

@Code 


already stated they don't possess Sage chakra from a member of their clan. literally none of them can touch Limbo. 

the only one who you can argue might be able to is 4th War Kaguya and that only because she took Madara's Body which utilizes Sage chakra for her Revival.


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

xingi said:


> Why lol, assuming  jj madara can do that, why would he switch it off? Who is going to give him Intel about isshiki's rods lmaoo


Read the OP maybe? Madara has "Reputation intel", he knows about Isshiki's reputation, so he knows about his abilities and techniques too, as they form part of the reputation of a character.


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## xingi (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> Read the OP maybe? Madara has "Reputation intel", he knows about Isshiki's *reputation*, so he knows about his *abilities and techniques* too, as they form part of the reputation of a character.


Reputation is not Intel on abilities

A4 knew of minato but didn't know how FTG worked


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## Danisor (Mar 9, 2021)

Hardly a challenge for Madara, he has this one in the bag... Naruto and Sauce got destroyed cuz they were both weak.


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> Read the OP maybe? Madara has "Reputation intel", he knows about Isshiki's reputation, so he knows about his abilities and techniques too, as they form part of the reputation of a character.



He is a Troll LMFAO,  he has no argument, so he just spamming Zetsu stuff which doesn't even correlate to anything Combat related.  




Kawaki just learning how to use Jutsu defeated Isshiki. 

Madara casually Stomps him.


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## Bob74h (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> He can't see it or touch it since you need six paths Sage chakra to even begin to affect them.



So isshiki has no counter to this tactic meaning that he could win out over him, I generally would say the god characters are lower tier then normal shinobi but the feats presented in burrito do not support that notion like naruto is stated to be weaker then his war arc counterpart as a example


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> So isshiki has no counter to this tactic meaning that he could win out over him, I generally would say the god characters are lower tier then normal shinobi but the feats presented in burrito so not that support like naruto is stated to be weaker then his war arc counterpart as a example




He has no counter for Limbo, or I.T for that matter. 


Yes, Madara would one shot him. 

Yes, it has been Stated the Adult Naruto and Sasuke are weakened from Time of Peace.


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## xingi (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> He is a Troll LMFAO,  he has no argument, so he just spamming Zetsu stuff which doesn't even correlate to anything Combat related.


I love how the new argument is that it is not combat related.






It's ok madara cultist this is a safe space, let it all out

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> He is a Troll LMFAO, he has no argument, so he just spamming Zetsu stuff which doesn't even correlate to anything Combat related.


Yeah, I wonder why the mods aren't dealing with this troll. He is clearly trolling when he keeps bringing up the scene where Zetsu stabbed Madara, which was clearly an outlier as it was a scene related to the story, and not a fight.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

xingi said:


> I love how the new argument is that it is not combat related.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yet Like I said Kawaki just learning Jutsu defeated Isshiki.


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## xingi (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Yet Like I said Kawaki just learning Jutsu defeated Isshiki.


I see this is your last desperate argument  yet isshiki ran out of time and wasn't touched while madara and black zetsu pierced through his chest with his *bare hands *.... what happened to juubi durability?


I understand  these are hard times for  madara fans, let it all out we are here for you

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> Yeah, I wonder why the mods aren't dealing with this troll. He is clearly trolling when he keeps bringing up the scene where Zetsu stabbed Madara, which was clearly an outlier as it was a scene related to the story, and not a fight.



Exactly, While zetsu was a Deus ex machina for the Story,  Isshiki Lost to Pre-Fruit Kaguya, and to Learning Jutsu Kawaki. 


There still no proof that Kaguya cheap shotted Isshiki like Zetsu did Madara.


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

xingi said:


> I see this is your last desperate argument  yet isshiki ran out of time and wasn't touched while madara and black zetsu pierced through his chest with his *bare hands *.... what happened to juubi durability?
> 
> 
> I understand  these are hard times for  madara fans, let it all out we are here for you



Yet he still lost to Kawaki, and PRe-Fruit Kaguya, and was unable to Kill Kojin. 


You're talking desperate running around here Spamming  Zetsu Beat Madara in combat like a fool because you're mad


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## xingi (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> You're talking desperate running around here Spamming  Zetsu Beat Madara in combat like a fool because you're mad


Yet you  haven't  given any good  retribution to any of it other than  cry outlier and muh story, Which by your logic it is not.

Concession accepted

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Exactly, While zetsu was a Deus ex machina for the Story,  Isshiki Lost to Pre-Fruit Kaguya, and to Learning Jutsu Kawaki.
> 
> 
> There still no proof that Kaguya cheap shotted Isshiki like Zetsu did Madara.


I mean, they have to be trolling. There's no way they genuinely believe Zetsu is stronger than Madara.

Zetsu the vermin who had to stay attached to Obito because otherwise those fodders Minato and Kakashi would have oneshot him.

If Zetsu was > Madara, then Kakashi and Minato would also be > Madara... which is clearly wrong:

*Link Removed*


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

xingi said:


> Yet you  haven't  given any good  retribution to any of it other than  cry outlier and muh story, Which mby your logic it is not.
> 
> Concession accepted



As I said Zetsu stuff is a Deus Ex Machina

Kishimoto Retconned Zetsu Back Story Because he Couldn't Figure out a Plausible  Way to defeat Madara who he stated has no weakness.



While I have authors Word about Madara...what do you have for Isshiki besides Crying About the Obvious?  there is no Authors Statements for Isshiki that would give Clarity  on him. He was basically a useless villain who did Nothing in the Story. At least Kaguya Killed Someone,  Isshiki was unable to Kill anyone throughout his whole Arc....Wait he was able to kill fodder that Edo Madara was doing before becoming a God. 

-Failed to Kill Kojin
-Lost to Pre-fruit Kaguya
-Lost to his Vessel who was just learning how to use Ninjutsu.

You're only response is to attempt to Downplay Madara with Kishimoto Retconning Zetsu Back Story?  LMFAO

Isshiki was unable to accomplished anything in his entire arc, now you're Crying about it to me.


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

I kind of feel sorry for all the Naruto fanboys who remained excited after that interview, and eagerly awaited for the final battle against Madara Uchiha.

Only for that "battle" to be reduced to a 2 minutes scene where Zetsu of all people removed Madara from the story. What a disappointment it must have been LOL.

But then again, I can't even blame Kishimoto. He said it himself. Madara had no weakness. There was no way he could ever lose in battle. It's like the Night King from GoT, he was so powerful that he had to be taken out by plot hax BS.


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## Grinningfox (Mar 9, 2021)

Madara fanboys grow more delusional everyday

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Madara fanboys grow more delusional everyday


Fused is probably the worst of them. Seriously his argument is that since Kishimoto called him invincible, he is.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> I mean, they have to be trolling. There's no way they genuinely believe Zetsu is stronger than Madara.
> 
> Zetsu the vermin who had to stay attached to Obito because otherwise those fodders Minato and Kakashi would have oneshot him.
> 
> ...



That when you know they Lost the Debate when they Bring up Zetsu ignoring this:


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## Grinningfox (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Fused is probably the worst of them. Seriously his argument is that since Kishimoto called him invincible, he is.


I think dude is just trolling tbh probably  like some assumed caricature of a persona

I doubt he’s really serious ( in regards to his behavior, not his beliefs )

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Fused is probably the worst of them. Seriously his argument is that since Kishimoto called him invincible, he is.


I don't believe in Death of the Author.

Kishimoto called him invincible, so he is. It's simple.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bob74h (Mar 9, 2021)

Fused said:


> Yeah, I wonder why the mods aren't dealing with this troll. He is clearly trolling when he keeps bringing up the scene where Zetsu stabbed Madara, which was clearly an outlier as it was a scene related to the story, and not a fight.




There a few good threads addressing the zetsu feat if your interested


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Bob74h said:


> There a few good threads addressing the zetsu feat if your interested



It more so Deus Ex Machina 

because of this:





and then This:


 Zetsu does have a pretty decent Feats, a dumb down Version of what Kaguya did to Naruto...regardless  Retconning his backstory Near the end of the Series to stop a Villain Falls in line with Deus Ex Machina.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

Got to love how Kishimoto wrote himself into a corner and had to retcon Zetsu's origins at the expense of Madara's character.

Since it was clearly shown and treated as in-story fact that Madara Uchiha created Black Zetsu as a physical manifestation of his will, and created White Zetsu as clones of Hashirama Senju via his twisted experiments on Hashirama's flesh.

Such an obvious retcon and outlier, such bad writing.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## kayz (Mar 9, 2021)

Is this still going on?
Isshiki murders this dude neg diff. Wtf is this?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 9, 2021)

kayz said:


> Is this still going on?
> Isshiki murders this dude neg diff. Wtf is this?


How is he gonna deal with Limbo Mr neg diff?
You can even summon the other 25 people who think he wins and maybe one of them will help you explain how he can when he doesn't have a Rinnegan and Six Path Senjutsu.


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## Monarch (Mar 9, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> How is he gonna deal with Limbo Mr neg diff?
> You can even summon the other 25 people who think he wins and maybe one of them will help you explain how he can when he doesn't have a Rinnegan and Six Path Senjutsu.


Imagine bringing Limbo into the argument when Isshiki literally tanked hits from Baryon Mode Naruto who would disintegrate Juudara by sneezing at him , and his Fodder Limbo clones couldn't even damage RSM Naruto who got clapped with Sasuke by Jigen 

Nevermind Jigen destroyed Sasuke , who in his teen years blitzed and bisected Cuckdara with his Hebi sword


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

AnbuHokage63 said:


> How is he gonna deal with Limbo Mr neg diff?
> You can even summon the other 25 people who think he wins and maybe one of them will help you explain how he can when he doesn't have a Rinnegan and Six Path Senjutsu.


Six Paths Chakra is basically Otsutsuki chakra and Isshiki's other eye is basically a buffed Rinnegan.


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 9, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> Imagine bringing Limbo into the argument when Isshiki literally tanked hits from Baryon Mode Naruto who would disintegrate Juudara by sneezing at him , and his Fodder Limbo clones couldn't even damage RSM Naruto who got clapped with Sasuke by Jigen


You literally have no evidence that Baryon Mode Naruto > Teen RSM Naruto(with yang seal).



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Six Paths Chakra is basically Otsutsuki chakra and Isshiki's other eye is basically a buffed Rinnegan.



You've made my day with this.

Reactions: Lewd 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fused (Mar 9, 2021)

Imagine thinking that Isshiki "neg diffs" when Madara can oneshot with Infinite Tsukuyomi (which Isshiki can't counter, especially when controlling a human body) and it's stated multiple times how Naruto has grown rusty and pathetically weak since the end of the War.


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## Sparks (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> My point was The Quantities of God Trees he ate is not relevant because none of them gave him any significant boost, until he Ate Kinshiki.  For the Most part Kinshiki was on The Verge of Death as well when it happened.


Well, Momoshiki also stores a portion of the chakra fruit's power as pills that give him huge transient boosts in reserves to complement Takamimusubinokami. It would be pointless to say that he received no boost at all from the consumption of a fruit as we don't have a point of comparison to say how powerful Momoshiki was 1000 years ago. We only have vague indicators that Momoshiki thought he'd be able to deal with Pre Fruit Kaguya.

There's also the space-time curvature index that Kinshiki mentioned. Earth is >16 and anything over 10 is abnormal. If this scale is exponential (base 10), then the chakra fruit produced by the Earth would be 10^6 times more powerful than a level 10, and hence even a huge number of lower level chakra fruits would not appear to give as significant a boost in comparison. But we'll have to wait for the anime/manga to expand this.


MYGod000 said:


> She doesn't Need a vessel, since We know enslaving a planet in I.T  can also Create a chakra Fruit.  For the Most part It never stated Kaguya Had a Vessel back then and Isshiki was too Weakened to Make one.


The issue here is that IT requires the Divine Tree's roots to actually serve the function of generating a Chakra Fruit. IT cannot do this alone, and so, for the Divine Tree to have been present, a sacrifice would have been required to bring it into being.


MYGod000 said:


> Earth had already  gained a chakra fruit yet it didn't  die at all even those it stated once a Chakra fruit is formed the planet dies and then they find a new planet.
> Earth has already Had Chakra Fruit grown on it and it didn't die like Amando  implied


Neither of these points are contradicted by the manga though...

Isshiki states in Chapter 39 that Boruto and Kawaki will become perfect Otsutsuki and that a gigantic Divine Tree will grow, "." By this same statement, an imperfect vessel will not grow a Divine Tree as large or as . Isshiki merely puts this in terms of size/reach of the Divine Tree where Amado frames it as quality of the chakra fruit. If the generated Divine Tree isn't big enough to devour all life on the planet, then a portion of the planet will be spared.

That is likely the case with Kaguya. Her goal was to control the entire planet with IT and create an army to battle the Otsutsuki, but she didn't ensnare the whole population; this is evidenced by the fact that the previous IT victims still remained in the Gedou Statue while a good fraction of humanity survived. Why? Because the Divine Tree's reach likely couldn't extend that far until she herself merged with the Divine Tree.

Obviously, we have to wait for the manga to explain Kaguya's motives...


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Sparks said:


> Well, Momoshiki also stores a portion of the chakra fruit's power as pills that give him huge transient boosts in reserves to complement Takamimusubinokami. It would be pointless to say that he received no boost at all from the consumption of a fruit as we don't have a point of comparison to say how powerful Momoshiki was 1000 years ago. We only have vague indicators that Momoshiki thought he'd be able to deal with Pre Fruit Kaguya.


Okay that not my point, My point was he never Transformed from those Many chakra Fruit he ate.



Sparks said:


> There's also the space-time curvature index that Kinshiki mentioned. Earth is >16 and anything over 10 is abnormal. If this scale is exponential (base 10), then the chakra fruit produced by the Earth would be 10^6 times more powerful than a level 10, and hence even a huge number of lower level chakra fruits would not appear to give as significant a boost in comparison. But we'll have to wait for the anime/manga to expand this.



That was From Tailed Beast Jin who are stated to be super-human in a world where Shinobi and kages.  All of that are pieces of Ten tails chakra the same Ten tails that Madara absorbed, and Hagoromo was Scared of.  Hagoromo implied at some point He surpassed the Kaguya in the past.  Like I mentioned Madara>Hagoromo.


Sparks said:


> The issue here is that IT requires the Divine Tree's roots to actually serve the function of generating a Chakra Fruit. IT cannot do this alone, and so, for the Divine Tree to have been present, a sacrifice would have been required to bring it into being.



That not an issue at all Because Obito Already proved He can Create a God Tree without the use of sacrificing any Otsutsuki.  It's also Noted that Obito was the 3rd Coming of Hagoromo since he absorbed the Ten tails and Gained enlightenment on the level of Hagoromo.


Sparks said:


> Neither of these points are contradicted by the manga though...
> 
> Isshiki states in Chapter 39 that Boruto and Kawaki will become perfect Otsutsuki and that a gigantic Divine Tree will grow, "." By this same statement, an imperfect vessel will not grow a Divine Tree as large or as . Isshiki merely puts this in terms of size/reach of the Divine Tree where Amado frames it as quality of the chakra fruit. If the generated Divine Tree isn't big enough to devour all life on the planet, then a portion of the planet will be spared.



That only Proves that Some god tree's are not that big, which would make since Because we see Momoshiki take the 8 tails and Created a God tree out of it and it was nothing in size to the one in the 4th War.  Momoshiki Stated  in the previous Chapter that Kawaki would yield a Decent Fruit implying Not all Fruit are the same as well.

The God Tree in the 4th War is stated to be able to Kill the planet off.


Sparks said:


> That is likely the case with Kaguya. Her goal was to control the entire planet with IT and create an army to battle the Otsutsuki, but she didn't ensnare the whole population; this is evidenced by the fact that the previous IT victims still remained in the Gedou Statue while a good fraction of humanity survived. Why? Because the Divine Tree's reach likely couldn't extend that far until she herself merged with the Divine Tree.
> 
> Obviously, we have to wait for the manga to explain Kaguya's motives...



Like I said you put to Much Stuck into amado's Word when he only going off what he knows, he never seen it happen just like He stated Kawaki would no longer be a Vessel  after Jigen dies. News flash Jigen Died...Fast Forward to Recent Chapter



Like I said Amado's Statements was going off Limited information, I don't see any Reason why This Condition isn't just going off the same since He has been off about practically everything else in the Isshiki Arc.

Like I said at this point it what ever the Author Wants.


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## T-Bag (Mar 9, 2021)

kayz said:


> Is this still going on?
> Isshiki murders this dude neg diff. Wtf is this?


Isshiki beats 2 bums, and they were weakened nevertheless and ya’ll think he can take on Madara lol?

sasuke and naruto have gotten their asses beat in every single fight from the beginning of time. Beating them is not a omg feat especially when they suck dick in boruto. Madara whopped their ass already and left them on the verge of death. And he was gonna do it again. They might land a hit or two; but this does not in any way make them Madara’s equals. Gai confirmed it Madara was the strongest opponent they’d ever faced because that OG could fight. You never gonna hear something like that about isshiki, a villain who’s a one trick pony in an era of peace (weak ass era)

madara would whoppe the floor with him. Ohtsutsuki’s cant fight for shit they depend too much on chakra and not skill to complement it. Look at the difference between Kaguya and Madara. Different mindsets.


----------



## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

T-Bag said:


> Isshiki beats 2 bums, and they were weakened nevertheless and ya’ll think he can take on Madara lol?
> 
> sasuke and naruto have gotten their asses beat in every single fight from the beginning of time. Beating them is not a omg feat especially when they suck dick in boruto. Madara whopped their ass already and left them on the verge of death. And he was gonna do it again. They might land a hit or two; but this does not in any way make them Madara’s equals. Gai confirmed it Madara was the strongest opponent they’d ever faced because that OG could fight. You never gonna hear something like that about isshiki, a villain who’s a one trick pony in an era of peace (weak ass era)
> 
> madara would whoppe the floor with him. Ohtsutsuki’s cant fight for shit. Look at the difference between Kaguya and Madara. Different mindsets.




>Obito after Tasting the power Hagoromo had with the Ten tails stated Madara with both Rinnegan is unbeatable

>Word of God Kishimoto stated That Madara has no weakness

>Databooks States Madara made all chakra back into one


Boruto fans: Man Stop Wanking. 


You really can Tell who the delusional fans are, when Citing information from the Manga and Author is considered Wanking. 

The funny thing is no one has even Made a Respectable argument on how is Isshiki defeating someone who is immortal and can't be Killed when he failed to Kill someone like Kojin who isn't immortal.

Reactions: Kage 1 | Optimistic 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> All those Numbers you gave out where Head canon.


Youre blind as fuck 


WorldsStrongest said:


> *Note, numbers arent meant to be accurate gaps, just placeholders, so dont do a stupid and strawman me with something like "lol wtf you think the Juubi is only X times stronger than Y character or whatever


Literally prefaced them with this

Stop embarrassing yourself 


MYGod000 said:


> All I said was Sasuke PS was 4 x smaller than Madara's PS which is true


No

What you said was Madaras susanoo is stronger based solely on the fact that its larger

When you cant even give me a panel of JJ Madara using PS

And as Ive proven with like half a dozen examples, size doesnt correlate to power

So your argument is flawed from jump street 


MYGod000 said:


> You Said My arguments Was Garbage from start to Finish


Because they are

They are based on gibberish that is countered by even a single vague glance at the manga 

You harped on for like 2 posts about Hagoromo being weaker than the Juubi when 50% of him has better feats than even amped Juubi Jins that are confirmed ABOVE the Juubi

You have no idea what youre talking about 


MYGod000 said:


> yet you can't Prove for the Life of you why Momoshiki never evolved


He did evolve

They evolve with every fruit they eat

This is outright fucking stated dude

I have already proven this

Evolve =/= Fused and transformed

This is yet another non sequitur on your part...Thats like the 3rd time youve done this 

We see them eat the fruits, and we see their power increase even when the fruits are fucking tiny as shown on screen/panel multiple times 

They blatantly evolve/improve when eating the fruit 

You have no fucking idea what youre talking about


MYGod000 said:


> ^Yet he never evolved, until He ate Kinshik


No

He never *dramatically transformed* until he ate Kinshiki 

That doesnt mean the fruits didnt evolve him

Theres a difference 

And that makes perfect sense considering eating another MULTIPLE FRUIT AMPED Otsutsuki would be >>>>>> eating a single fruit anyway 

Think before you speak 


MYGod000 said:


> You can't Argue against this


I can

And did

Very fucking easily in fact

Thats what happens when your entire argument is based on a non sequitur 

A single sentence is all thats needed to shit down your throat as you try to make an argument like that


MYGod000 said:


> Because of the Manga Statements:


Ive used multiple manga feats and manga statements to show you why your non sequitur argument is real wrong and real flawed actually 

Youre just way too biased and ignorant to see it 

Inb4 yet another non sequitur 


MYGod000 said:


> Hagoromo Stated At some point After she Ate the Fruit she became the Rabbit Goddess


Means literally nothing at all to any point Ive made in this entire thread

You are literally just spinning your wheels 


MYGod000 said:


> Rabbit Demon Kaguya=Pre-Fruit Kaguya


Nope

This is stupid and wrong 

It is outright stated and shown that eating Fruit amps Otsutsuki 

And its stated by Hag that this applied to Kaguya herself as well 



You dont know what youre talking about 


MYGod000 said:


> Hagoromo also stated at one point Kaguya Was the strongest, Implying he surpassed Her


No

No that isnt at all what that implies nor is that what he said

In response to Naruto asking him who was stronger between him and Kaguya, Hagoromo states 

Please by all means point out where hes implying his own superiority there genius 

Why is your logic regarding every single panel of this manga completely and totally and hilariously incorrect?

Do you get paid for that? 


MYGod000 said:


> Madara>Hagoromo


No

no he isnt

50% of Hag kicked the shit out of Madara

And 50% of Hag put in work against Fully formed Kaguya when just her farts were enough to kill Madara

You have no idea what the fuck youre talking about 


MYGod000 said:


> Kaguya after she transformed is way beyond Prime Isshiki


Literally impossible to know for sure right now

They never fought directly


MYGod000 said:


> Hagoromo is more powerful than Isshiki


Also impossible to tell 


MYGod000 said:


> Madara is more powerful than Isshiki


No

Madara is weaker than either NAruto or Sasuke as stated multiple times in the narrative and is plainly obvious by feats

And Isshiki lolstomped the pair of them

Your argument here is wrong

On every level


MYGod000 said:


> n boruto the Condition of the Creating a Divine Tree you need to sacrifice a Living Otsutsuki Member.


Also has literally no bearing on what I said 


MYGod000 said:


> I'll accept your concession.


You dont know what this word means


----------



## Sparks (Mar 9, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Okay that not my point, My point was he never Transformed from those Many chakra Fruit he ate.


We all assumed the RinneSharingan was a consequence of Kaguya consuming the fruit, but the depiction of Pre-Fruit Kaguya shows her already having that eye. So it could be said that she didn't transform either, at least in appearance.


MYGod000 said:


> That was From Tailed Beast Jin who are stated to be super-human in a world where Shinobi and kages.  All of that are pieces of Ten tails chakra the same Ten tails that Madara absorbed, and Hagoromo was Scared of.  Hagoromo implied at some point He surpassed the Kaguya in the past.  Like I mentioned Madara>Hagoromo.


You're saying Hagoromo was scared of the same Juubi that Madara absorbed? The same Juubi that Edo SM Hashirama could bind with the SM Myojinmon/Futtou and whose clones could redirect Juubidama with Deep Forest Emergence? The Edo SM Hashirama that is significantly weaker than his living self.

Are you saying Pre-Jin Hagoromo with Rinnegan and enough SPS to create 1 TSB staff is not comparable to Edo SM Hashirama?

Let's backtrack:

1) Kaguya eats the earth's chakra fruit at some point in time and adds this to whatever reserves she had previously. This chakra fruit is incomplete as the entire planet has not  been consumed.

2) A large portion of Kaguya's chakra is distributed to Hagoromo and Hamura. Enough of a portion that she merges with the Divine Tree in an attempt to reclaim it, and transforms into the Juubi.

3) The Juubi that Hag/Ham fought was a composite of Kaguya's remaining chakra and the life force of the Divine Tree.

4) The Juubi is sealed in Hagoromo.

5) Hagoromo distributes portions of this Juubi's chakra whilst traveling the world and teaching Ninshu.

6) Hagoromo splits the *remaining* portion of the Juubi's chakra into the Tailed Beasts.

The Juubi that Hag/Ham fought has much more chakra/power than the Juubi Madara absorbed. The Juubi you claim Hagoromo was afraid of.

Pre Jin Hagoromo >> 2R SM Madara

Kaguya >> Prime JJ Hagoromo > Any JJ Madara


MYGod000 said:


> That not an issue at all Because Obito Already proved He can Create a God Tree without the use of sacrificing any Otsutsuki.  It's also Noted that Obito was the 3rd Coming of Hagoromo since he absorbed the Ten tails and Gained enlightenment on the level of Hagoromo.


Yes, because Kaguya had already merged with the Divine Tree and/or a sacrifice had been made prior to it completing its job. If Otsutsuki could create a Divine Tree _without _using a sacrifice, then there would be no reason for the Karma system to exist.


MYGod000 said:


> That only Proves that Some god tree's are not that big, which would make since Because we see Momoshiki take the 8 tails and Created a God tree out of it and it was nothing in size to the one in the 4th War.  Momoshiki Stated  in the previous Chapter that Kawaki would yield a Decent Fruit implying Not all Fruit are the same as well.
> 
> The God Tree in the 4th War is stated to be able to Kill the planet off.


I'd have to look at the novel's description of the Divine Tree Momo was using/created. Do you have that by chance?


MYGod000 said:


> Like I said you put to Much Stuck into amado's Word when he only going off what he knows, he never seen it happen just like He stated Kawaki would no longer be a Vessel  after Jigen dies. News flash Jigen Died...Fast Forward to Recent Chapter
> 
> 
> Like I said Amado's Statements was going off Limited information, I don't see any Reason why This Condition isn't just going off the same since He has been off about practically everything else in the Isshiki Arc.
> ...


Amado only said that all other Karma would be erased once an Otsutsuki revives. He makes no mention of whether or not the erasure included the extracted fraction. The only thing he may have miscalculated for at this point is that Code's White Karma didn't disappear upon Isshiki's revival.


----------



## xingi (Mar 9, 2021)

Sparks said:


> Amado only said that all other Karma would be erased once an Otsutsuki revives. He makes no mention of whether or not the erasure included the extracted fraction. The only thing he may have miscalculated for at this point is that Code's White Karma didn't disappear upon Isshiki's revival.


This is because  codes karma doesn't  contain isshiki's data. Karma's disappear to prevent otsutsukis from creating copies of themselves


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## Sparks (Mar 9, 2021)

xingi said:


> This is because  codes karma doesn't  contain isshiki's data. Karma's disappear to prevent otsutsukis from creating copies of themselves


True, but I was going off the fact that Isshiki didn't even seem to know that Code's Karma would remain, hence why he said something like "how fate indulges in irony".

But I agree that Amado may have more information than he's letting on.


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Youre blind as fuck
> 
> Literally prefaced them with this
> 
> ...



That you who being blind here. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> What you said was Madaras susanoo is stronger based solely on the fact that its larger



because it was Bigger than Full Kurama we get a visual of How Big Madara's PS is compared to  Naruto's Asura mode.


Even those Madara's PS is comparable in size to Indra's PS which is massive compared to the Size Naruto's Asura mode is. 

 Yes, It stronger than Sasuke.  Both Madara and Sasuke have Six paths Chakra, but only Madara Was able to unlock Rinnegan while Sasuke was gifted the Rinnegan he never unlocked it.  You don't think that would have an affect  on the power of it? 


WorldsStrongest said:


> When you cant even give me a panel of JJ Madara using PS


That irrelevant Did 1-9 Tails Beast  massively boost Sasuke's PS from base?  use common sense. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> And as Ive proven with like half a dozen examples, size doesnt correlate to power


So...Because you gave out completely unrelated Examples that wasn't about Madara that means you proven Madara PS was weaker?  Wtf type Logic is That LMFAO?  


WorldsStrongest said:


> So your argument is flawed from jump street


I agree with some things you Say but when it comes to Debating God tiers Madara  I disagree with you. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Because they are
> 
> They are based on gibberish that is countered by even a single vague glance at the manga


The Manga disagrees.  the only thing Sasuke Ps has over Madara's is that it can Fly and Databook implies Every EMS user who has Mastered PS can make it fly by just Manipulation the chakra. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> You harped on for like 2 posts about Hagoromo being weaker than the Juubi when 50% of him has better feats than even amped Juubi Jins that are confirmed ABOVE the Juubi



I said Pre-JJ Hagoromo is weaker than the Juubi Because he is, it took both him and his Brother to Defeat it and they could only seal it.  I said JJ Hagoromo Feared The Juubi. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> You have no idea what youre talking about



I do. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> He did evolve
> 
> They evolve with every fruit they eat



He didn't I just showed you a and the thread an instant of him eating a chakra fruit and not making any significant change. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> This is outright fucking stated dude
> 
> I have already proven this


I never said it wasn't stated, I said he never made any changes. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Evolve =/= Fused and transformed



that nice. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> This is yet another non sequitur on your part...Thats like the 3rd time youve done this
> 
> We see them eat the fruits, and we see their power increase even when the fruits are fucking tiny as shown on screen/panel multiple times


what power increase did Momoshiki show from eating that unknown planet chakra?  I'm not going to get into that because this isn't really about Momoshiki I'm just saying they didn't show any changes or evolved until he ate Kinshiki. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> They blatantly evolve/improve when eating the fruit



improve how exactly? Because we didn't see any Drastic changes from Momoshiki until the end


WorldsStrongest said:


> You have no fucking idea what youre talking about
> 
> No


That you my friend, but i don't really hold it against you, it just get fun to correct you buddy.  you already know we 100 bruh. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> He never *dramatically transformed* until he ate Kinshiki



Which was my point, he didn't evolve event after taking a planet life and everything on that planet. you think he would evolve into a better fighter.  Which is why he has weakness which makes him beatable for people who are not even in God tier level. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> That doesnt mean the fruits didnt evolve him


I asked you in what way did he evolve.  His power sure as hell didn't evolve. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Theres a difference
> 
> And that makes perfect sense considering eating another MULTIPLE FRUIT AMPED Otsutsuki would be >>>>>> eating a single fruit anyway


Now...why would you say this?  you were just saying how my arguments made no sense then you went and said this. It depends on the planet. Earth was able to handle having a God Tree Suck the life out of it and create a Chakra fruit without dying. since we are on the subject, it was also stated once a chakra fruit is created the planet dies and the Otsutsuki looks for new planet. Yet Earth didn't die after Kaguya ate the Chakra fruit of Earth.  Not all planets are the Same, Earth Had the highest Chakra Momoshiki has ever seen. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Think before you speak
> 
> I can
> 
> ...



Yet seem to be struggling to do something you claimed was so simple to do...so you made yourself out to be a liar here.  Hey...i'm just saying


WorldsStrongest said:


> Ive used multiple manga feats and manga statements to show you why your non sequitur argument is real wrong and real flawed actually
> 
> Youre just way too biased and ignorant to see it
> 
> ...



hat fine and I asked you in what way did he gain power?  It doesn't matter if you have power but unable to properly use it or fight.  


WorldsStrongest said:


> You dont know what youre talking about
> 
> No
> 
> ...



He said: My Mother *"*_*Was" *_more powerful than any other.  he didn't say: My Mother *"Is"* more powerful than any other.   I don't need to argue Semantic with you. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Why is your logic regarding every single panel of this manga completely and totally and hilariously incorrect?
> 
> Do you get paid for that?
> 
> ...


That your opinion, Besides Madara is immortal,  It would be like fight Kid buu doesn't matter if you can Kick his arse, but can you kill him is the question. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> And 50% of Hag put in work against Fully formed Kaguya when just her farts were enough to kill Madara


That nice don't forget That  it stated that 50% Hagoromo was only as fast as 1 Rinnegan JJ Madara in reaction speed. we see Kaguya had a hard time touching It. while Sasuke got instantly BFR, which implies Sasuke was never on Naruto level.  BM Kurama Naruto>EMS Sasuke. 

Naruto can stack a whole Sage mode on that form using bare minimal 10 x boost to his stats. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> You have no idea what the fuck youre talking about
> 
> Literally impossible to know for sure right now


your opinion. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> They never fought directly



because why...Because we didn't see it? Because we didn't see the fight you automatic assume there wasn't a fight.  Like I said he was Low on chakra and I showed examples of Kojin being off guard while in combat.  


WorldsStrongest said:


> Also impossible to tell


If it impossible to tell then just say that don't just rule out They never fought. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> No
> 
> Madara is weaker than either NAruto or Sasuke as stated multiple times in the narrative and is plainly obvious by feats



It was never Stated he was weaker, Obito Statements disagree which he Said Madara with both Rinnegan is unbeatable. Kishimoto statements supports that statements. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> And Isshiki lolstomped the pair of them



That was a weaker pair


WorldsStrongest said:


> Your argument here is wrong
> 
> On every level
> 
> ...


 That your opinion.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2021)

While we have Madara fanatics screaming how Limbo is supposedly Madara's key to victory...how does Madara counter Isshiki's clear physical advantage (to the point where he can *kick Sasuke out of Perfect Susano'o and Naruto out of his Kurama Avatar something that Madara cannot do*) or his own hax (the cubes, Karma chakra absorption then redirection, the shrinking Sukunahikona or Daikokuten)? What's stopping Isshiki just from shrinking to the point where Madara can't see him and the cubes disrupt his sensing, bypass the Limbo entirely and enter Madara's ear...then he instantly grows to full size Atom style and bursts Madara's head like a grapefruit?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## T-Bag (Mar 9, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> While we have Madara fanatics screaming how Limbo is supposedly Madara's key to victory...how does Madara counter Isshiki's clear physical advantage (to the point where he can *kick Sasuke out of Perfect Susano'o and Naruto out of his Kurama Avatar something that Madara cannot do*) or his own hax (the cubes, Karma chakra absorption then redirection, the shrinking Sukunahikona or Daikokuten)? What's stopping Isshiki just from shrinking to the point where Madara can't see him and the cubes disrupt his sensing, bypass the Limbo entirely and enter Madara's ear...then he instantly grows to full size Atom style and bursts Madara's head like a grapefruit?


Madara has something even better than the susano and kyuubi's avatar. It's called the juubi. He has the best DEFENSE in the manga far superior than those two abilities. And on top of his defense, he has regeneration and immortality. Wtf are isshiki's kicks gonna do?
Can isshiki's kicks bend space like the best taijutsu user in the manga? Does he have this type of force in his kicks? no. Okay then this argument is put to rest lmao. No matter how small ishiki shrinks, the sharingan spots him. If he's a needle in the hay, the sharingan's kinetic vision spots his ass.

He's not bursting anyone like a grapefruit like what you're suggesting. Madara is immortal if his sharingan SOMEHOW fails him.


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## MYGod000 (Mar 9, 2021)

Sparks said:


> We all assumed the RinneSharingan was a consequence of Kaguya consuming the fruit, but the depiction of Pre-Fruit Kaguya shows her already having that eye. So it could be said that she didn't transform either, at least in appearance.


she did Because Hagoromo stated After she ate the Fruit She turned into a demon.



Sparks said:


> You're saying Hagoromo was scared of the same Juubi that Madara absorbed? The same Juubi that Edo SM Hashirama could bind with the SM Myojinmon/Futtou and whose clones could redirect Juubidama with Deep Forest Emergence? The Edo SM Hashirama that is significantly weaker than his living self.




It's stated he was, I can say Current 9 tails is much more powerful than the one we see during Hagoromo times since all the Tailed Beast were Babies and 9 tails got stronger  from his hate.

You being foolish Hashirama could never redirect a Juubi Dama otherwise show me him doing such a feat.


Sparks said:


> Are you saying Pre-Jin Hagoromo with Rinnegan and enough SPS to create 1 TSB staff is not comparable to Edo SM Hashirama?



never said that at all, What does temperarly binding it with his wood Release which suppresses chakra have to do with anything? He can't Beat it. He has no jutsu to stop it,  and even while Amped by Kurama's chakra cloak needed help to Cut Down the God Tree which Hagoromo+Hamura defeated both Ten tails+Divine Tree. where you just not paying attention to the manga or what? i'm not trying to be rude but all this was stated.


They defeated Both Ten tails and God Tree. Hashirama didn't and couldn't.


Sparks said:


> Let's backtrack:
> 
> 1) Kaguya eats the earth's chakra fruit at some point in time and adds this to whatever reserves she had previously. This chakra fruit is incomplete as the entire planet has not  been consumed.



That irrelevant because you don't even know how long it was draining the planet and Databook books state the fruit blooms every 1000 years.


Sparks said:


> 2) A large portion of Kaguya's chakra is distributed to Hagoromo and Hamura. Enough of a portion that she merges with the Divine Tree in an attempt to reclaim it, and transforms into the Juubi.



Like I said that Juubi was weaker than the current one in the war since 9 tails from living with hate got much stronger, and the Other tailed Beast can argue they made a boost as well.


Sparks said:


> 3) The Juubi that Hag/Ham fought was a composite of Kaguya's remaining chakra and the life force of the Divine Tree.


Still massively weaker than 4th War Kaguya and Madara.



Sparks said:


> 4) The Juubi is sealed in Hagoromo.



Nope, there are some conflicting stories about that. He took the Juubi chakra, it stated by Madara  when he stated he Broke Hagoromo+Hamura's Seal that the ten tails was sealed in the moon.   using Six paths CT with the help of his brother.



Sparks said:


> 5) Hagoromo distributes portions of this Juubi's chakra whilst traveling the world and teaching Ninshu.


Yep this part is correct.


Sparks said:


> 6) Hagoromo splits the *remaining* portion of the Juubi's chakra into the Tailed Beasts.


that nice, Like I said Gedo Mazo which was stated to be the Ten tails was sealed in the moon. Madara as an old man was able to Absorbed the chakra it had to keep himself alive beyond his life span.


Sparks said:


> The Juubi that Hag/Ham fought has much more chakra/power than the Juubi Madara absorbed. The Juubi you claim Hagoromo was afraid of.



Nope, Because the tailed Beast Got stronger and in boruto that shown when the 9 tails+8 tails power can Crack Space time.


unless you think the baby 9&8 tailed Beasts Back when Hagoromo Created them can do the same thing it clear over the 1000 years they got Much stronger.


Sparks said:


> Pre Jin Hagoromo >> 2R SM Madara




This is how I see it  Pre-JJ HAgoromo>Indra>2R SM Madara.  that is fair


Sparks said:


> Kaguya >> Prime JJ Hagoromo > Any JJ Madara



The Kaguya part was right, But Madara had Massive stronger Tailed Beast than what Hagoromo had.

4th War Kaguya>>Prime Madara>JJ Hagoromo>>>>>>>Kaguya in the past that fought Isshiki


Sparks said:


> Yes, because Kaguya had already merged with the Divine Tree and/or a sacrifice had been made prior to it completing its job. If Otsutsuki could create a Divine Tree _without _using a sacrifice, then there would be no reason for the Karma system to exist.



Well, first off Otsutsuki Are not Hagoromo. Let get that Straight  before we continue this.  Secondly,  The OTsutsuki dan't Have Six paths Senjutsu chakra.




Sparks said:


> I'd have to look at the novel's description of the Divine Tree Momo was using/created. Do you have that by chance?



He didn't Create one.


Sparks said:


> Amado only said that all other Karma would be erased once an Otsutsuki revives. He makes no mention of whether or not the erasure included the extracted fraction. The only thing he may have miscalculated for at this point is that Code's White Karma didn't disappear upon Isshiki's revival.


He has said alot of things Not all of what he said was 100% Correct.

Kaguya and Hagoromo power came from Absorbing the Juubi. The Otsutsuki don't Absorb the Ten tails they eat the fruit of the Ten tails.  They have Six path chakra, but they don't have Six paths Senjutsu chakra.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Gin Ichimaru (Mar 9, 2021)

fucking lol, no idea personally who wins but i love how page 1 is some variation  of a one liner of either "isshiki stomps" or "madara stomps"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## T-Bag (Mar 10, 2021)

Where is this from? This is my first time seeing this o_O 
You always post informative links


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## Fused (Mar 10, 2021)

Sparks said:


> Kaguya >> Prime JJ Hagoromo > Any JJ Madara


False, this clearly defies the story envisioned by Kishimoto:



Hagoromo stated that Madara's power was getting close to him and to his mother, this when he only had one Rinnegan.



Kishimoto stated that Madara unleashed the full power of the Sage of Six Paths when he got both Rinnegan, which were stated to be a derivative of Hagoromo's own chakra power:



Madara reached Hagoromo's power fully once he got both Rinnegan. Then, when he awakened the Rinnesharingan, Madara left Hagoromo in the dust and moved on to rival Kaguya herself.

Hence why the ONLY TWO CHARACTERS to awaken the Rinnesharingan in the verse are Kaguya AND Madara.

Hagoromo is absolute fodder, he's no longer relevant when it comes to these two:

Reactions: Winner 3


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 10, 2021)

Fused still is the master of taking things out of context, not knowing what hyperbole is and trying to present hype as the only proof he needs in a versus battle...no wonder why Madara fanboys seem to have embraced him.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## dergeist (Mar 10, 2021)

Gin Ichimaru said:


> fucking lol, no idea personally who wins but i love how page 1 is some variation  of a one liner of either "isshiki stomps" or "madara stomps"



Lol, those arguing for Isshit haven't read the manga or don't understand scaling, so one liners were bound to pop up. They rely on head Canon and fanfic, tbh.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## blk (Mar 10, 2021)

Fused said:


> False, this clearly defies the story envisioned by Kishimoto:

















The story envisioned by Kishimoto

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fused (Mar 10, 2021)

blk said:


> The story envisioned by Kishimoto


You proved nothing. All those "arguments" were already addressed. 

Furthermore... 





Of course you wouldn't post the panels of Madara effortlessly overpowering his enemies without even moving a limb. So disingenuous, so cocky.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## blk (Mar 10, 2021)

Fused said:


> You proved nothing. All those "arguments" were already addressed.
> 
> Furthermore...
> 
> ...



Wow he blocked the punch of fodder Suckura as a Juubi Jin... what a godly feat 

That surely compensates the other 10 pages of ass whooping

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fused (Mar 10, 2021)

blk said:


> Wow he blocked the punch of fodder Suckura as a Juubi Jin... what a godly feat


Kaguya couldn't block that same kind of attack, meanwhile Madara blocked it effortlessly:



Also you can see that ALL 3 PEASANTS OF TEAM 7 were overpowered, Naruto and Sasuke were hurt and knocked back too.

Also all your panels are showing either Madara when he only had 1 Rinnegan (ignoring that, as per Obito's statement, Madara would become tremendously powerful and unstoppable with both his Rinnegan back) or the plot hax jutsu of Zetsu. Invalid arguments, but an admirable effort.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Creative 1 | Kage 1


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## AnbuHokage63 (Mar 10, 2021)

blk said:


> The story envisioned by Kishimoto


It's nice to see you didn't post scans where he called them a sideshow after getting his second eye and  had Sasuke running for his life to avoid IT after he awakened Kaguya's eye.

According to all of you
JJ Madara (vs Guy) = JJ Madara (Post Shinju) = JJ Madara ( 2 Rinnegans) = JJ Madara ( 3-Eyed)

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## Raiken (Mar 10, 2021)

DRG Shinjuudara high diffs.

Isshiki can win through BFR if it's 1RG Shinjuudara. Though it's Extreme Diff.

Isshiki can probably win w/o BFR if it's 1RG Juudara, but with High Diff.

_______________ Ootsutsuki's & their JJ counterparts Power Scaling wise:

1. Post-Shinju Merger/Revived-Kaguya

2. Post-Fruit Kaguya ~ Prime Shinjuudara

3. DRG Shinjuudara > Isshiki(Original Body)

4. Isshiki(Jigen's Body) ~ 1RG Shinjuudara

5. V2 Jigen ~ 1RG Juudara

6. Transformed Momoshiki ~ Juubito


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## dergeist (Mar 10, 2021)

Fused said:


> You proved nothing. All those "arguments" were already addressed.
> 
> Furthermore...
> 
> ...



And from a closer distance at that, looks like Mads didn't give af in the initial counter and casually slapped cuck bros here.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Zero890 (Mar 10, 2021)

V2 Jigen is enough to low diff let alone full power Isshiki, this match ends in 3 seconds after a BFR.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Mar 10, 2021)

Zero890 said:


> V2 Jigen is enough to low diff let alone full power Isshiki, this match ends in 3  nanoseconds after a BFR.


FTFY

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MYGod000 (Mar 10, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Youre blind as fuck
> 
> Literally prefaced them with this



Why give out numbers?   Simple enough by just ">" 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Stop embarrassing yourself
> 
> No
> 
> What you said was Madaras susanoo is stronger based solely on the fact that its larger



You haven't Really Done anything on your part to Discredit that.   instead you went into a Exposition about unrelated  Characters as if it was relevant. I then told you why I think His PS is Stronger which you ignored.  Both Sasuke and Madara have six paths chakra...But Madara can Stack Sage mode on top of his while Sasuke Can't.   


WorldsStrongest said:


> When you cant even give me a panel of JJ Madara using PS


You're Asking for a negative.  I'm telling you to use your common sense, If Madara PS>Sasuke PS...then Stacking the Juubi Chakra on top of his already Stronger PS would Result in a stronger PS.   2nd  form Juubi's Power is stated to be greater than the combined powers of the Tailed Beast anyways. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> And as Ive proven with like half a dozen examples, size doesnt correlate to power


Was Hashirama's Shinjuu not Bigger and Stronger than Madara's PS?  


WorldsStrongest said:


> So your argument is flawed from jump street


No, you just don't understand what you're Talking about. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Because they are
> 
> They are based on gibberish that is countered by even a single vague glance at the manga


you've not counter anything you not counter why Madara's PS wouldn't be Stronger when he has Everything Sasuke has Plus Sage mode which gives a 10 x amp on top of his Six paths chakra. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> You harped on for like 2 posts about Hagoromo being weaker than the Juubi when 50% of him has better feats than even amped Juubi Jins that are confirmed ABOVE the Juubi


I clearly was talking about Pre-JJ Hagoromo. after you were just talking about Me strawman you, then you turn out in do what you accused me of doing to you. I said Pre-JJ Hagoromo Was weaker than the Juubi Because It took him+His Brother to defeat it. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> You have no idea what youre talking about


I do. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> He did evolve
> 
> They evolve with every fruit they eat


MY god you are piss poor when it comes to explain things.  Don't worry I am to... I asked you in what way did he Evolve.  


WorldsStrongest said:


> This is outright fucking stated dude


Look at above comment and answer it. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> I have already proven this
> 
> Evolve =/= Fused and transformed


Again, I said in what way did they Evolve? do they gain enlightenment like you're not telling me anything here and keep regurgitating that you proven It...but you've not proven anything. you just said they Evolved, then Said the manga Stated they evolved. Now i'm asking you to explain in what way did he evolve. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> This is yet another non sequitur on your part...Thats like the 3rd time youve done this
> 
> We see them eat the fruits, and we see their power increase even when the fruits are fucking tiny as shown on screen/panel multiple times



in what way did His powers increase? Did it make his absorbing powers better?  most of the time Momoshiki Turned those fruit into  pills.  which did increase his power...but only when he ate pills. in terms of the fruit the story did a Piss poor job showing Momoshiki from eating fruit increased in power since he has no feats after he ate the fruit to to compare, the only thing he did was attack Killer Bee with help, Defeat a Naruto who wasn't even fighting back. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> They blatantly evolve/improve when eating the fruit
> 
> You have no fucking idea what youre talking about


They say that but hey they should do a better job of showing that, and you keep jumping from Evolving to increasing power and stuff so not really a coherent point. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> No
> 
> He never *dramatically transformed* until he ate Kinshiki


I know that. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> That doesnt mean the fruits didnt evolve him



Not saying it didn't just asking you in what way did it evolve him is all.  like I said you're having a real hard time explain that simple question. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Theres a difference
> 
> And that makes perfect sense considering eating another MULTIPLE FRUIT AMPED Otsutsuki would be >>>>>> eating a single fruit anyway


It depends on the fruit, Momoshiki Stopped what he was doing to head to earth because the Fruit was bigger than any fruit he ate since he been alive.  We have no reason to disagree since 9&8 tails powers was cracking space and time.  implying that Tailed beast power over time increases. since they been alive for at least 1000 years we can conclude the tailed beast from 4th war and currently>>>>>Tailed beast back when Hagoromo created them. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Think before you speak
> 
> I can


LOL,  I always do...


WorldsStrongest said:


> And did
> 
> Very fucking easily in fact
> 
> Thats what happens when your entire argument is based on a non sequitur


That nice when you able to answer my questions then we can move on.  


WorldsStrongest said:


> A single sentence is all thats needed to shit down your throat as you try to make an argument like that


you're sick LMFAO.    


WorldsStrongest said:


> Ive used multiple manga feats and manga statements to show you why your non sequitur argument is real wrong and real flawed actually
> 
> Youre just way too biased and ignorant to see it


not biased at all, I just was asking in what way did he evolve and then you got upset about it.  


WorldsStrongest said:


> Inb4 yet another non sequitur
> 
> Means literally nothing at all to any point Ive made in this entire thread
> 
> ...



Well, I agree that Momoshiki eating his pills increased his powers.  Do they even keep the power up? 


WorldsStrongest said:


> And its stated by Hag that this applied to Kaguya herself as well


he fruit that Kaguya ate was more powerful than any fruit Momoshiki has seen. it stated that once she ate the fruit she became a god, and Hagoromo Stated she became a Demon. 

Both Statements implied that once Kaguya ate the fruit  from earth she Transformed in to a God/Demon.  implying some fruit are leagues more powerful than others. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> You dont know what youre talking about
> 
> No
> 
> ...


considering he took her Powers and Created a Jutsu that once shots her every time in a seal, the Same seals she was scared of. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Why is your logic regarding every single panel of this manga completely and totally and hilariously incorrect?


how so when Hagoromo defeated her? Not saying he more powerful than Current Kaguya, but the kaguya from the past...you have not be Pretty bias to assume Hagoromo after Taking Kaguya's powers+JJ was still weaker than Past Kaguya. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Do you get paid for that?
> 
> No
> 
> ...



That irrelevant because they can't defeat him.   


WorldsStrongest said:


> And 50% of Hag put in work against Fully formed Kaguya when just her farts were enough to kill Madara


That nice, that doesn't negate the Databook which was writting by Word of God who Stated Naruto is as fast as 1 Rinnegan JJ Madara in reaction speed. so Madara would be able to dodge Kaguya as well.  Zetsu who is Kaguya brain in that fight stated Naruto was Fast. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> You have no idea what the fuck youre talking about


your opinion. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Literally impossible to know for sure right now


okay, that fine you see when you give out these type of Response to things you don't know we can all accepted it because you're telling me you don't know. But when you just mention things it sounds like you are just pulling out of your arse just saying Friend.


WorldsStrongest said:


> They never fought directly


Well...you don't know that for sure right? if not then how do you know they didn't? 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Also impossible to tell
> 
> No
> 
> Madara is weaker than either NAruto or Sasuke as stated multiple times in the narrative and is plainly obvious by feats


It wasn't Kishimoto Stated Madara was more powerful than them when he Wrote the Databook he stated He made all chakra into one. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> And Isshiki lolstomped the pair of them


That pair is weak like I said because it stated in the narrative they were weaker than what they was in the past. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Your argument here is wrong
> 
> On every level
> 
> ...


like I said your opinion.


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## Kai (Mar 10, 2021)

Beating Momoshiki is already doubtful, it's worse against Isshiki who is on another level.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## MYGod000 (Mar 11, 2021)

Momoshiki struggling against Weaker Versions of Duo isn't  evident that he even on Madara's level let alone Isshiki, who was shown struggling with them. 


Kishimoto's intent is that Boruto Era Naruto&Sasuke are weaker than what they were in they prime. We can argue Semantic all day the fact remains that they are stated to be Past Prime, and we are given a reason why they are weaker now than before.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## T-Bag (Mar 11, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> Momoshiki struggling against Weaker Versions of Duo isn't  evident that he even on Madara's level let alone Isshiki, who was shown struggling with them.
> 
> 
> Kishimoto's intent is that Boruto Era Naruto&Sasuke are weaker than what they were in they prime. We can argue Semantic all day the fact remains that they are stated to be Past Prime, and we are given a reason why they are weaker now than before.


U know what’s more pitiful? Thinking all the otsutsukis that came after naruto series are kaguya level or hagoromos level.

yet where is the suspense?? Like the world is ending?? The world coming together to stop a common enemy?? Nowhere to be found. Code has a shot but thats it. The other otsutsukis in boruto were just above average villains. And thats why theyre fighting rusty ass main chAracters.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fused (Mar 11, 2021)

There was a time when the world was about to end:



"If all chakra were to be reunited into one again, a new chakra fruit would take shape... that must be prevented at all costs, *or this world will come to an end.*"

Notice how no such comments are ever made in Boruto. It is never said that Momoshiki, the fat alien, or Isshiki are threatening to end the world itself.

Only Madara did.

And Madara succeeded.

The Infinite Tsukuyomi... The Infinite Dream... the end of time, the end of the world:



Nothing in this new generation of weaklings comes close.


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