# Sasuke vs Raditz



## DavyChan (Apr 24, 2015)

Distance: 100m
Knowledge: None
Location: Goku & Piccollo vs Raditz
Mindset: Serious

Is EOS Sasuke strong enough to beat the weakest dbz arc boss?


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## SSBMonado (Apr 24, 2015)

Radditz should be ahead on DC and dura. Not sure about speed. 
Sasuke's hax would probably be annoying in any case, though


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## Brightsteel (Apr 24, 2015)

Raditz breathes in his general direction. Quality difference solos.


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## Haro (Apr 24, 2015)

Raditz stomps the shit outta him.

A casually KI blast blowing up the moon>>Sasugay


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## Iwandesu (Apr 24, 2015)

it depends really
sauce can feasibly teleport a sword into raditz brain with his speed advantage
outside from this scenario  raditz can casually one shot him


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## Tapion (Apr 24, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> it depends really
> sauce can feasibly teleport a sword into raditz brain with his speed advantage
> outside from this scenario  raditz can casually one shot him



Has he ever teleported anything into anyone?


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## Jag77 (Apr 24, 2015)

The lowballing. 

Real quick, How do DBZ characters even handle things like Amaterasu or Gudou Dama's from Godruto and Saucesage? 

Gudou dama's turn you into dust just from poking it. 

Amaterasu isn't coming off anytime soon. 

Sasuke's speed advantage and hax give him the win imo.
Though I think I remember Raditz being Mach 260 and Moon level with continent durability.


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## Brightsteel (Apr 24, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> The lowballing.
> 
> Real quick, How do DBZ characters even handle things like Amaterasu or Gudou Dama's from Godruto and Saucesage?
> 
> ...



Truth Seeking Balls don't magically bypass durability.....Amaterasu can't even tickle Raditz....and Radtiz is mach 1500, and small-planet level DC and durability.


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## Tacocat (Apr 24, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> Real quick, How do DBZ characters even handle things like Amaterasu or Gudou Dama's from Godruto and Saucesage?



By being planet level in durability.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 24, 2015)

truth seeking balls do not bypass durability
they are just superconcentrated damage (aka atomization)
amaterasu is only worth the oxygen he will make raditz loose by burning it (which considering saiyans lungs is way out of being enough to even bother him)
as for sauce he teleported his sword right through juudara iirc (not like this matters when he is literally teleporting stuff wherever he wants)


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 24, 2015)

Sasuke might have a shot at singing some leg hair with Indra's Arrow


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## Yami Munesanzun (Apr 24, 2015)

Better scenario:

Sasuke vs a Saibamen


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 24, 2015)

sasuke stomps


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## Brightsteel (Apr 24, 2015)

Raditz outdoes him in every possible way.


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## shade0180 (Apr 24, 2015)

> they are just superconcentrated damage (aka atomization)



It isn't atomization...


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## Reznor (Apr 25, 2015)

Why are we even talking about Sasuke's damage v Raditz durability? Moon level durability isn't ignored by fire.

Genjutsu is a far more reasonable train of thought.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 25, 2015)

Strong enough 

More like fast enough


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 25, 2015)

Raditz kills him, and probably eats him.


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## Alita (Apr 25, 2015)

Sasuke imo. He's faster and has the hax(Genjutsu and teleporting his sword or something else inside raddiz.) to win.


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## DavyChan (Apr 28, 2015)

so this is split. lol. people saying stomping on both sides of the equation. makes me wonder the fairness in which people are speaking in...


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## SunRise (Apr 28, 2015)

Almoust every thread in OBD is just a comparision of 3 basic contestant's stats. We know in advance who will win for sure judging by 3 values. Usually it all comes to useless debates about powerscaling or something like that. 

It turns out relatively better when we make chracter from mainstream Verse like One Piece confront someone from other popular but not so mainstream show like Magi. In this case a lot of people don't know basic stats of "not so mainstream show" and we eventually lurk and find out more about powerlelvels of other Verses and this is what I like best. And sometimes shit goes right and we make equal in stats opponents face each other and we are actually debating about characters abilities - how they will work on different chraracters, how they will interact with abilities of other character etc.

I don't know why I am even posting this here but I would like to see more more matchups without obvious outcome.


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## Regicide (Apr 28, 2015)

..We already know all that. 


Regicide said:


> Then I'd say try to work around that problem or don't strictly adhere to standard conditions.
> 
> Put factions or civilizations against each other instead of individuals.
> Minimize stat differences and make matches that focus more on comparing powersets than comparing stats.
> ...


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## SSBMonado (Apr 28, 2015)

Shouldn't Radditz's insides have the dura to no-sell the sword?


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## Linkdarkside (Apr 28, 2015)

Raditz speed,psychical strength and durability would be to much for Sasuke to handle and his energy attacks have nuke like radius so it be hard for Sasuke to defense again those even whit Perfect Susanoo which can be broken.

even if Sasuke potara fusion whit Naruto i doubt, Sasuto could handle Raditz,i think the most powerful DB character Sasuke could take on would be King Piccolo.


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## LazyWaka (Apr 28, 2015)

SSBMonado said:


> Shouldn't Radditz's insides have the dura to no-sell the sword?



Telefragging is considered to ignore durability, I believe.


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## Reznor (Apr 28, 2015)

Things that ignore durability only ignore it to an extent.

For instance, poisons ignore durablity until about city-country level (IIRC), because that's the point at which a brute force attack is doing more damage on the cellular level than a poison is.

Not sure where I'd put Telefragging on the ignore durability chart.


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## LazyWaka (Apr 28, 2015)

It's regarded as a spatial hax iirc.


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## AgentAAA (Apr 28, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Telefragging is considered to ignore durability, I believe.



how does that work? why do we consider the sword's weaker matter to be able to displace raditz's stronger ones?


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## Regicide (Apr 28, 2015)

As far as I know, when it comes to telefrags, it's not so much objects themselves displacing anything so much as the actual spacial fuckery going on that put the objects there to begin with.


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## GearsUp (Apr 28, 2015)

raditz rapes. dub raditz is ftl btfw

Stop overestimatin naruto just because of this movie


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 28, 2015)

> dub Raditz

I can't believe anyone would seriously post that.


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## Reznor (Apr 28, 2015)

Regicide said:


> As far as I know, when it comes to telefrags, it's not so much objects themselves displacing anything so much as the actual spacial fuckery going on that put the objects there to begin with.



Would air telefrag anything?


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## Imagine (Apr 28, 2015)

You're all telefrags


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## Reznor (Apr 28, 2015)

I WILL FUCKING KILL YOU IMAGINE


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## Reznor (Apr 28, 2015)

Reznor said:


> I WILL FUCKING KILL YOU IMAGINE



I'M NOT JOKING EVERYONE. YOU ARE ALL WITNESSES.


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## Lucaniel (Apr 28, 2015)

what does "telefrag" even mean


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## Reznor (Apr 28, 2015)

I originated in FPS, IIRC, where you teleport on a space someone else was occupying killing them.

A game mechanic that sets the precedent for the thing teleporting automatically having priority to not get destroyed.


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## shade0180 (Apr 28, 2015)

> telefrag



Spatial displacement... that would make two object occupy the same space..


 just go with that. anyway the term started with FPS..


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## Regicide (Apr 28, 2015)

Reznor said:


> Would air telefrag anything?


If there's a character that can teleport a given volume of air, I guess.

Don't think it commonly comes up in fiction that characters teleport objects as insubstantial as gases though.


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## Zef (Apr 28, 2015)

Pretty sure Prime Sasuke can decimate Beerus, and Whis. Raditz get's defeated in nanoseconds. :ignoramus



*Spoiler*: __


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## Reznor (Apr 28, 2015)

Regicide said:


> If there's a character that can teleport a given volume of air, I guess.
> 
> Don't think it commonly comes up in fiction that characters teleport objects as insubstantial as gases though.


 Consider that the softness of air makes you doubt it killing a person.

Although you might not imagine it that way, consider that the sword is equivalent to someone with moon level durability.



Imagine said:


> SUP   BRAH?


I'm taking off my shirt IRL. You need to know that for context.

WHAT? YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME? YOU WANT TO GO.

After I finish typing this, I'm going to move my arms back as far as possible and making a threatening expression.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 29, 2015)

Reznor said:


> Would air telefrag anything?



Yes if you did it correctly.

the point of telefrag is that having objects in your brain/body is fucking bad for you.

(brain)

(br<sword>ain)

no matter how powerful or tough your brain is the sword will still do damage because it is displacing brain matter.

even if you assume that Radditz's brain can tank the sword in the first place and that being bent into a katana shape does not impede it in anyway, as the sword gets crushed down by radditz superior toughness, the sword will get denser and denser until it can overpower radditz's toughness and then kill him anyway via brain hemorrhage. 

tl;dr even if the process itself didn't kill someone the end result will, physics determines this for us.


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2015)

.... Dimensional displacement can also displace the veins in the body or organs. so even if said object can't harm you, your own body is already fucked even before the ability ended...


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## Haro (Apr 29, 2015)

Reznor said:


> I'M NOT JOKING EVERYONE. YOU ARE ALL WITNESSES.



Mommy,Daddy please stop fighting...


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Apr 29, 2015)

Raditz rapes this filthy peasant into oblivion.


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## trance (Apr 29, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> The lowballing.
> 
> Real quick, How do DBZ characters even handle things like Amaterasu or Gudou Dama's from Godruto and Saucesage?
> 
> ...



Amaterasu and Gudodama are casually no-selled. They're no scratching a guy with durability almost at planet level.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 29, 2015)

nightbringer said:


> Yes if you did it correctly.
> 
> the point of telefrag is that having objects in your brain/body is fucking bad for you.
> 
> ...


 but isn't it a NLF to assume that it could displace brain matter at such a durability level as Radditz's ? I mean, could it displace Goku's? Beerus? Superman?


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## MAPSK (Apr 29, 2015)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> but isn't it a NLF to assume that it could displace brain matter at such a durability level as Radditz's ? I mean, could it displace Goku's? Beerus? Superman?



If they don't have resistances to that kind of hax? Yes, it could.


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2015)

> but isn't it a NLF to assume that it could displace brain matter at such a durability level as Radditz's



NLF doesn't stop an ability from working.. NLF Limits the strength/Speed of the ability..

Spatial displacement would be treated the same way as teleportation or spatial cuts...

Which means you need resistance to it for it to not work against you..


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 29, 2015)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> but isn't it a NLF to assume that it could displace brain matter at such a durability level as Radditz's ? I mean, could it displace Goku's? Beerus? Superman?



It could displace all three (barring maybe superman, because a) he can tank black holes and b) he probably has feats of resisting that kind of thing anyway, since he's been around so long)

it's called hax for a reason.

what you're arguing is akin to saying that The World can't Timestop radditz or that Xavier can't mindfuck him.


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## DavyChan (Apr 29, 2015)

welll this got boring and wayyy too technical.... *checks out*


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## Haro (Apr 29, 2015)

Way to technical in a Vs debate? Fucking wa- nevermind.
Raditz casual moon busting>>>Sasuke.
I really don't see sasuke taking this dude at all.


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## SSBMonado (Apr 29, 2015)

nightbringer said:


> It could displace all three (barring maybe superman, because a) he can tank black holes and b) he probably has feats of resisting that kind of thing anyway, since he's been around so long)
> 
> it's called hax for a reason.
> 
> what you're arguing is akin to saying that The World can't Timestop radditz or that Xavier can't mindfuck him.


That's not really the same thing.

My 2 cents:
If Sauce tries to teleport his sword into Radditz's brain, then his teleportation hax still has to move Radditz' brain matter around in order to make room for the sword. Obviously there's force involved in  doing this, so if Radditz' dura is too high, the ability shouldn't work.


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## MAPSK (Apr 29, 2015)

SSBMonado said:


> That's not really the same thing.
> 
> My 2 cents:
> If Sauce tries to teleport his sword into Radditz's brain, then his teleportation hax still has to move Radditz' brain matter around in order to make room for the sword. Obviously there's force involved in  doing this, so if Radditz' dura is too high, the ability shouldn't work.



There's no force involved if the brain matter is displaced by the teleportation or if it's warped out of shape by distortions in space. Having your brain be spaghettified by a black hole would be a serviceable comparison. There's no force involved, but the intense curvature of spacetime will fuck up your body anyway.


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2015)

> If Sauce tries to teleport his sword into Radditz's brain, then his teleportation hax still has to move Radditz'* brain matter around in order to make room for the sword*


Er no it won't make a room for it, It will fit it in there even ignoring physics.......

Basically what it will do is it will overlap the object with the organ.... not move the organ around...


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## Regicide (Apr 29, 2015)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> but isn't it a NLF to assume that it could displace brain matter at such a durability level as Radditz's ? I mean, could it displace Goku's? Beerus? Superman?


Something can only be an NLF if there's a plausible explanation for the technique not working at a given level.

Being able to shatter the planet with your fist isn't going to help you if there's suddenly a rock where your gray matter is supposed to be.

Seriously, this is like fucking saying that leveling continents will save you if someone goes back in time and pushes your mother down the stairs.


SSBMonado said:


> My 2 cents:
> If Sauce tries to teleport his sword into Radditz's brain, then his teleportation hax still has to move Radditz' brain matter around in order to make room for the sword. Obviously there's force involved in  doing this, so if Radditz' dura is too high, the ability shouldn't work.


Not really, no.

All the teleportation has to do is with fuck with space to get whatever the object is into someone's skull to begin with.

The rest just occurs because unless both objects are now intersecting each other (this would probably be just as lethal, honestly), your brain can't exactly occupy an area that now has something else in it because of teleporting shenanigans.

Durability ain't worth anything. You have to be able to resist the spacial manipulation that went on for that to happen.


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## Regicide (Apr 29, 2015)

Alternatively, the teleportion _does_ displace the matter that was already there by fucking with space to make room for the object, but you'd still need resistance feats either way.

Because what's making the matter move in that situation isn't energy.


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## RandomLurker (Apr 29, 2015)

Sauce never really displayed the ability to TP anything that's already a part of someone's body in the first place, did he? If he could have done that at any time in the series, why wouldn't he have tried to swap Madara's heart with a rock, or TP Kaguya's head off? Or heck, tried it on Naruto, since he hasn't shown any resistance to time space fuckery as far as I can remember. The last time I checked you can't just make up feats for an ability.


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## Extravlad (Apr 29, 2015)

Raditz solos the Narutoverse easily.
Fucking Picolo could easily destroy the moon w/o even trying and Raditz was 4 times stronger than that version of Picolo.

Raditz can easily blow up everything around him and Sasuke will die eventually.


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2015)

RandomLurker said:


> Sauce never really displayed the ability to TP anything that's already a part of someone's body in the first place, did he?



Because that is not his ability. 



> If he could have done that at any time in the series, why wouldn't he have tried to swap Madara's heart with a rock, or TP Kaguya's head off?


His ability is not Swapping object with another object or space cuts like with Law..

His ability is teleporting an object to another location...

Basically a sword to the heart/Stomach/Brain etc.. Directly..


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## Yagami1211 (Apr 29, 2015)

Sasuke is faster and can mindrape him, Radditz has no resistance to Genjutsu whatsoever.

Due to Equivalence Rule, Radditz has chakra, Sasuke can suck him out via Rinnegan powers.


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## Reznor (Apr 29, 2015)

nightbringer said:


> Yes if you did it correctly.
> 
> the point of telefrag is that having objects in your brain/body is fucking bad for you.
> 
> ...


But you can't assume that it has infinite displacement power if you are bringing physics into this.
You've got some thermodynamics to consider.

It's NLF because you can't assume that it can move or disintegrate matter that stands up to worse non-hax attacks. Most "hax" have limits still. Physic attacks get to completely ignore durability. Most of things have a certain point at which durability comes into play again. Poison, for example, doesn't care whether or not your durability is wall level or town level - you need resistance. But at country level, durability alone can deal with most poisons. Why? Because a country buster does more damage per unit than a poison does. Fire and sharp knives doesn't care if you have bully level durability or nerd level durability, but it matters somewhere after wall or building level. 

Not quite sure if that's moon level for telefrag, but that's not the kind of thing we can just go "TELEFRAG GG"

Noone is arguing that Radditz can survive getting his brain cut in half. Your just skipping a step.
Also the INHISHEAD in unrealistic. You don't just get a free vital hit just because you need it. "Everything is a headshot" is just not the way that anything works.


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## Reznor (Apr 29, 2015)

Where's this Sasuke telefrag anyway?


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2015)

During the fight with Madara.. in the war arc


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## Reznor (Apr 29, 2015)

Like, chaper+page


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2015)

^


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2015)

> But at country level, durability alone can deal with most poisons. Why? Because a country buster does more damage per unit than a poison does.



Pretty sure you are confusing something here reznor...

Country level Durability or not won't help you when the poison is moving around you veins.. or your lungs... that's why it potentially ignores regular durability...



> Fire and sharp knives doesn't care if you have bully level durability or nerd level durability, but it matters somewhere after wall or building level.



Telefrag isn't forcibly entering the body.. or even displacing the body occupying the space.. It is basically just putting an object to occupy a designated space a body being in that space is a non-factor.

Because  it doesn't matter if that space is already occupied or not.


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## MysticBlade (Apr 29, 2015)

That isn't displacing another occupied space, it's just him teleporting his katana in front of madara and piercing him.


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2015)

Did you see the sword move? 

Teleporting and spatial displacement is the same shit.. 



> in front of madara and piercing him.



If the sword is just placed in front of madara it wouldn't have any force or energy to pierce him...


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Apr 29, 2015)

That doesn't really look like he placed the katana itself inside Madara to be honest.


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## MysticBlade (Apr 29, 2015)

All sasuke did was fucking swap locations with his katana when madara came at him 

Madara pierced himself. 

Nothing in that panel suggests Telefrag.


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## Regicide (Apr 29, 2015)

That.. isn't strictly correct, shade.

The point he's making about poison is that it actually has to exert energy on the cells and shit, just on a really concentrated level. That's why having a certain level of durability would theoretically protect you from poisons and whatnot.

Don't think the same argument can be applied to spatial fuckery though, on account of it being spatial fuckery.


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## Volt manta (Apr 29, 2015)

Spacial fuckery is essentially cutting something out of space, and pasting it in a place where it wasn't before. Which means there's no way to have a durability cap on it, since there's no active forces to resist, not even energy transfers until after the fact. Matter is simply now there where matter wasn't.


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## Zef (Apr 29, 2015)

Sasuke can not teleport objects into people, and his ability is not restricted to objects. Sasuke swaps Space and whatever happens to be in said space gets moved.
-He can swap people/objects
-He can swap several people/objects at a time
-It has a range
-It has a cool down (approximately after 3 uses)
-He can switch the position of the object/people he swaps.


*Spoiler*: __ 






1st time he swapped.


2nd

His sword which was face down in the ground, came to his location while he went to its previous one.



3rd

Positions Madara between his, and Naruto's attack



4th



5th


6th

He swaps Kaguya between him, and Naruto



7th





8th

He swaps himself, and two others at once.




9th




10th





11th


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## Zef (Apr 29, 2015)

^All that being said Raditz probably wins. Just wanted to clarify some things regarding Sasuke's S/T ability.


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## Alita (Apr 29, 2015)

Zef said:


> ^All that being said Raditz probably wins. Just wanted to clarify some things regarding Sasuke's S/T ability.


If his ability is to swap what's in two different places then shoulden't madara have been swaped to the location his sword was at rather than the sword by itself just moving to his location and not him?

Coulden't he just swap his sword with some part of of raddiz body like his internal organ or something though and still kill him in that matter? Raddiz also still doesn't have any answer to genjutsu or the soul manipulation powers of the rinnengan which he also should be capable of doing.


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## CyberianGinseng (Apr 29, 2015)

People, please. Madara flew into the damn sword that Sasuke swapped places with. Madara provided the penetrating force, not the sword.


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## MysticBlade (Apr 29, 2015)

> If his ability is to swap what's in two different places then shoulden't madara have been swaped to the location his sword was at rather than the sword by itself just moving to his location and not him?



No, sasuke swapped locations with his sword. 

That's why we see sasuke at the location his sword previously was and his sword at the location he previously was. He can only swap two objects (whether it be himself or someone else) and it has a limited range on it.



> Coulden't he just swap his sword with some part of of raddiz body like his internal organ or something though and still kill him in that matter?



No, it doesn't work that way. He can only swap whole objects,  similar to law's room ability.


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## Alita (Apr 29, 2015)

MysticBlade said:


> No, sasuke swapped locations with his sword.
> 
> That's why we see sasuke at the location his sword previously was and his sword at the location he previously was. He can only swap two objects (whether it be himself or someone else) and it has a limited range on it.
> 
> ...


Fair enough on the first point.

But why would we assume that he can only swap whole objects and not something smaller?

I can understand where the NLF would come from in regards to him swaping something bigger than what he has shown but not something smaller.

Also in one of the scans zef posted he was abel to swap himself and two other people at the same time.


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## CyberianGinseng (Apr 29, 2015)

You can't assume that he can't swap partial objects, but you can't make an argument that he beats someone else with an ability he either hasn't displayed or that doesn't automatically follow from what he has displayed.


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## MysticBlade (Apr 29, 2015)

> But why would we assume that he can only swap whole objects and not something smaller?



Because he hasn't shown any feats to support what you're suggesting. 
He's only been shown to swap the entirety of an object,  he'll need feats for swapping pieces of an object or persons (heads, arms, legs and organs).



> I can understand where the NLF would come from in regards to him swaping something bigger than what he has shown but not something smaller.



That's where range comes into play, he probably has a few hundred meters max of what he can swap. I'm talking about the size of an object/beast/person in any case.



> Also in one of the scans zef posted he was abel to swap himself and two other people at the same time.




My bad, what i ment to say was that he can only swap objects/persons from two different locations.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 29, 2015)

Reznor said:


> But you can't assume that it has infinite displacement power if you are bringing physics into this.
> You've got some thermodynamics to consider.
> 
> It's NLF because you can't assume that it can move or disintegrate matter that stands up to worse non-hax attacks. Most "hax" have limits still. Physic attacks get to completely ignore durability. Most of things have a certain point at which durability comes into play again. Poison, for example, doesn't care whether or not your durability is wall level or town level - you need resistance. But at country level, durability alone can deal with most poisons. Why? Because a country buster does more damage per unit than a poison does. Fire and sharp knives doesn't care if you have bully level durability or nerd level durability, but it matters somewhere after wall or building level.
> ...



It's not displacement in the way you're thinking of, the sword doesn't enter his brain, it skips that step, that's how teleportation works.

The normal sequence of events is

1. Sword moves
2. Sword enters brain
3. Sword is now in brain which causes brain haemorrhage
4. Death 

When Sasuke Teleports it, it goes:

1. Sword Moves
2. Sword is now in brain which causes brain haemorrhage
3. Death

The reason I skipped that step is because that's how his ability functions, it deosn't have to get through his durability because it bypasses every step that has anything remotely to do with durability.

Spatial hax isn't moving things around or disintegrating things or whatever, it's saying that volume of space time now obeys me and I say there is a sword there. You can't possibly argue that sheer durability can surpass someone telling a volume of spacetime to fuck off somewhere else.

Sasuke is far faster than Radditz, him not getting a headshot is like saying Superman won't be able to shoot you in the face every time with his laser vision. He can because he's so much faster he can take time to aim his abilities and since it's a fictional teleport he can never miss what he's aiming at, there's no parabolic arc, projectile motion, etc. to think about, it's point and boom sword goes there.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 29, 2015)

>madara ran into the sword gaiz!!1

welp I'm bailing from this thread before it goes even fuller retard


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## Piecesis (Apr 29, 2015)

>Fuller


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## DarkTorrent (Apr 29, 2015)

CyberianGinseng said:


> People, please. Madara flew into the damn sword that Sasuke swapped places with. Madara provided the penetrating force, not the sword.



you do realize that the sword was in thin air and there was no force that was holding it in that exact position?


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## Eylandos (Apr 29, 2015)

Raditz mid difficulty.


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## Alita (Apr 30, 2015)

We probably need to have a thread done on sasuke's tech to determine whether he teleported it or just moved the space. Since people seem divided on it.


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## Red Angel (Apr 30, 2015)

So, what's being argued for Saucegay?

What's keeping Saucegay from being splattered by Raditz?


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## Reznor (Apr 30, 2015)

So, I'm going to start with "Oh, that's not what happened in the panel." and assume misunderstanding of his ability on other people's parts. I'm going to respond to most of this anyway.


shade0180 said:


> Pretty sure you are confusing something here reznor...
> 
> Country level Durability or not won't help you when the poison is moving around you veins.. or your lungs... that's why it potentially ignores regular durability...





Regicide said:


> The point he's making about poison is that it actually has to exert energy on the cells and shit, just on a really concentrated level. That's why having a certain level of durability would theoretically protect you from poisons and whatnot.



Regicide has it right. Poison doesn't bypass country level durability. A country buster to a human size area is more concentrated that what a poison is doing to a cell.

Your problem is that it's harder to visualize, but whatever makes it so that country level+ folk don't burn to ash from a country buster is the same thing keeping the cells intact.
At that point, the burden is would be on you to show country level+ guys suspectiblity to poison and/or the power of the poison.



> Telefrag isn't forcibly entering the body.. or even displacing the body occupying the space.. It is basically just putting an object to occupy a designated space a body being in that space is a non-factor.


 That's not how Sasuke's ability works.
He explains how his power works.

Define "telefrag" however you want, but then you are no longer describing something real.



nightbringer said:


> It's not displacement in the way you're thinking of, the sword doesn't enter his brain, it skips that step, that's how teleportation works.
> 
> The normal sequence of events is
> 
> ...


 This is not Sasuke's ability, as said above.

Also, assuming that Sasuke's ability can put things in other things (It can't) the teleportation has to break bonds, which city level attacks can't break. I get that it doesn't have to pierce his skin, but it's not like that's were all of his durability is just from armored skin or something.

If you want to say that this spatial hax is magic, then go ahead - it can ignore anything I guess. But if you want to legitimize it with science, it does have to obey at least a little conservation of energy/entropy. 

What makes it so that the sword doesn't disintegrate against Raditz? Does Sasuke ability protect it until it reappears? We only saw it pierce Madara, who could be pierced without such protection, so we have seen this. If it would just appear without break any bonds and just phasing in, then it would bits of madara mixed throughout the sword and have destroyed the sword. Frankly, there's no reason to assume that this power you've seen elsewhere is Sasuke's power. We have no evidence that it can ignore anything.



> Sasuke is far faster than Radditz, him not getting a headshot is like saying Superman won't be able to shoot you in the face every time with his laser vision. He can because he's so much faster he can take time to aim his abilities and since it's a fictional teleport he can never miss what he's aiming at, there's no parabolic arc, projectile motion, etc. to think about, it's point and boom sword goes there.


 What are the speed calcs here on that?
Is Sasuke really faster than Raditz now?


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## Reznor (Apr 30, 2015)

Madara running into the sword is weird, but it's what happened. First, look at the way his coat juts out. It was clear a piercing, not just appearing inside him.

Secondly. Sasuke explained his ability. It doesn't make sense to make up a new ability to explain this feat. Either "Madara feel on the blade" or an explaination that fits with in the power (like maybe he moves to give the sword some interia or something) are both far better than just importing a foreign power.


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## LazyWaka (Apr 30, 2015)

Speed wise Sasuke is at mach 4000 (though I think we can maybe get something more from "The Last", I'm waiting on better subs before I try anything with it. 

I keep hearing inconsistent stuff regarding DB speed at this point (ranging from mach 1,500 to mach 150,000.)



Alita54 said:


> We probably need to have a thread done on sasuke's tech to determine whether he teleported it or just moved the space. Since people seem divided on it.



Please don't. It's to trivial to bother making a thread on.


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## Alita (Apr 30, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Speed wise Sasuke is at mach 4000 (though I think we can maybe get something more from "The Last", I'm waiting on better subs before I try anything with it.
> 
> I keep hearing inconsistent stuff regarding DB speed at this point (ranging from mach 1,500 to mach 150,000.)
> 
> ...


I wasn't planning to, just a suggestion. .

However if a consensus isn't reached in this thread I can easily see his ability being argued over in future threads involving him which can get repetitive and quickly go off topic.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 30, 2015)

Dbz speed at the beginning of z fluctuates depending on who you ask.
There is really conservative guys like mike who thinks even piccolo moon buster low end speed is invalid because we have to wait for over a hundred of chapters before seeing another one.
There are less conservatives guys who says the mach 1500 low end is legit for reactions because better speed exist in many instances in verse.
And there are more "modern" folks like Willy who thinks the relativistic end is legit because our hobby margin of error is too big to call anything calc wise as an outlier


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## Reznor (Apr 30, 2015)

So for Speed: Conservate Raditz < Sasuke < Less Conservative 

However, I still wonder why noone still is even talking about the genjutsu angle.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 30, 2015)

Reznor said:


> So for Speed: Conservate Raditz < Sasuke < Less Conservative
> 
> However, I still wonder why noone still is even talking about the genjutsu angle.


Nah sauce has mach 4k reactions and combat speed
Unless you are refering to the "modern" as less conservative


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## Extravlad (Apr 30, 2015)

> I keep hearing inconsistent stuff regarding DB speed at this point (ranging from mach 1,500 to mach 150,000.)


Whis,Beerus,Goku,Golden Frieza,Vegeta are all MFTL.


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## LazyWaka (Apr 30, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Whis,Beerus,Goku,Golden Frieza,Vegeta are all MFTL.



I was referring to saiyan saga stuff.


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## Reznor (Apr 30, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Nah sauce has mach 4k reactions and combat speed
> Unless you are refering to the "modern" as less conservative



I mean Conservate Raditz (1.5k) < Sasuke (4k) < Less Conservative Raditz (15k) < Much less conservative Raditz (150k)


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## Plague (May 1, 2015)

Maybe it would help if we powerscaled feats from Dragon Ball. 

But Sasuke's tricky.


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## hammer (May 2, 2015)

the question is, did sauske keep his eye on the birdie?


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## SSBMonado (May 2, 2015)

Plague said:


> Maybe it would help if we powerscaled feats from Dragon Ball.
> 
> But Sasuke's tricky.


Tao vs Sasuke

Tao starts a hundred miles away from the battlefield. He picks up a stone column, throws it and jumps on top of it to close the distance.
The difference in awesomeness between this and everything Sasuke has done in his entire life creates a singularity that sucks Sasuke into the void. 
Tao's mode of transportation solos.


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## hammer (May 2, 2015)

I don't know  forcing sakura to raise karin's baby is pretty fubnny


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## TheSweetFleshofDeath (May 3, 2015)

Wait, can't Sasuke just redirect Raditz energy blasts?  If he combined this with some genjutsu I'd say he could squeak out a win.  I mean why would he even use his sword when it likely can't kill Raditz anyway?

As a sidenote, Teleporting a sword into Raditz brain is a bit of a nlf.  He's never been shown to use such obvious tactics.  Naruto characters never use their abilities like that.  It would be like asking Kaguya to use her abilities in a way that wasn't completely retarded.


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## Weather (May 3, 2015)

hammer said:


> I don't know  forcing sakura to raise karin's baby is pretty fubnny



I think it was confirmed in an event and interview that Sarada is really Sakura's.

Kishi is just trolling with the Gaiden.


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## Hand Banana (May 3, 2015)

Same argument can be made for Z-Fighters tho. Krillin passed up an opportunity to defeat frieza.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 3, 2015)

Weather said:


> I think it was confirmed an and event and interview that Sarada is really Sakura's.
> 
> Kishi is just trolling with the Gaiden.



That'd be really disappointing. I really enjoyed that first chapter


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (May 3, 2015)

Can we stop talking about Sakura's kid?


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