# EMS Madara vs MS Obito?



## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Can the real Madara defeat the imposter?

vs

(Obito takes his mask off)


Location: Final Valley
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions: Summoning Jutsu: Kurama


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## Atlantic Storm (Mar 6, 2019)

With essentially no knowledge on Obito's abilities, he might lose, but I'm kind of having trouble visualising that just because of how far above Obito's league Madara is.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Atlantic Storm said:


> how far above Obito's league Madara is.


Not really.. Outside of megazoids how is Obito not on his level?


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## Atlantic Storm (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Not really.. Outside of megazoids how is Obito not on his level?



You're right, apart from that one jutsu that let him blow up mountains and off-panel the Gokage, Madara is definitely around Obito's level.

Reactions: Like 9


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 6, 2019)

Obito beating Madara because “lel kamui” is no less dumb than suggesting Itachi Beats Hashirama because “lel Tsukuyomi”

And regardless, Kamui isnt that difficult to figure out at a base level. Need I remind you all of Fu and Torune? ANBU fodders who figured out the majority of Kamui after seeing it once?

Madara is also a sensor non like Minato is, and thus can avoid being “back door special”ed like Minato did if Obito tries to come up behind him with Kamui.

And phasing or no, Obito is still vulnerable to Genjutsu, which is something Madara would deduce after seeing Kamui in action just once.

Add to that, Madara has the AoE and firepower and stamina to use up Kamuis 5 minute duration. Highly doubt hed figure this out tho tbh, thats a helluva reach. Best I could argue on that front would be Madara likening Kamui to Izanagi, another Uchiha ability to avoid lethal injuries, and one with a time limit.

Speaking of Izanagi, Madara has that which he can use to hoodwink and feint Obito with.

Dont see Madara losing here. Knowledge or no.


Atlantic Storm said:


> off-panel the Gokage,


He didn’t use PS to beat the Gokage. He straight up says that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kai (Mar 6, 2019)

Chapter 674

Madara: [Sasuke’s] “Sharingan just like mine. If he’d only been born before Obito, I’d have...

No... There’s no point in reflecting on what could have been.”

Enough said 


1 MS Obito practically = DMS Obito the way I read some posts here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Obito beating Madara because “lel kamui” is no less dumb than suggesting Itachi Beats Hashirama because “lel Tsukuyomi”


Uhh both aren't bad arguments.. Neither have knowledge or a counter for Tsukuyomi or Kamui.. You just don't like the idea of the founders losing to anyone that's not Alien Tier


WorldsStrongest said:


> And regardless, Kamui isnt that difficult to figure out at a base level. Need I remind you all of Fu and Torune? ANBU fodders who figured out the majority of Kamui after seeing it once?


Who said Madara can't figure it out? But how does he counter it?


WorldsStrongest said:


> Madara is also a sensor non like Minato is


Can you please stop spreading this false info you dishonest debater? Show me one single scan that indicates EMS Madara is a sensor? And no, don't use Edo Madara who has all of Hashirama's abilities including sensory.. Oh and Minato is a sensor and you should know this



WorldsStrongest said:


> and thus can avoid being “back door special”ed like Minato did if Obito tries to come up behind him with Kamui.


Uhh no.. Minato is *actually* a sensor and it still happened to him.. The only thing that saved him was space/time ninjutsu that EMS Madara doesn't have


WorldsStrongest said:


> And phasing or no, Obito is still vulnerable to Genjutsu



3 tomoe Sharingan negged the 3rd strongest genjutsu in the series.. Wtf genjutsu does Madara have that would work on a mastered MS user?


WorldsStrongest said:


> Add to that, Madara has the AoE and firepower and stamina to use up Kamuis 5 minute duration.


Uhh no he doesn't.. Even if he did Obito can always phase into the ground which hardcounters the 5 minute straight attack. That's why Konan had to take the ground from him


WorldsStrongest said:


> Speaking of Izanagi, Madara has that which he can use to hoodwink and feint Obito with.


Which Obito also has to counter Madara's


WorldsStrongest said:


> Dont see Madara losing here. Knowledge or no.


Yet you can't think of a single way he wins, ive got you right where i want you finally for once you're struggling and can't come up with anything for how a founder wins


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Kai said:


> Chapter 674
> 
> Madara: [Sasuke’s] “Sharingan just like mine. If he’d only been born before Obito, I’d have...
> 
> ...


So because Madara favored Sasuke over Obito that means EMS Madara can defeat MS Obito? This is hilarious seeing the founders bias consensus struggle to come up with a way Madara wins 


Kai said:


> 1 MS Obito practically = DMS Obito the way I read some posts here.


Why because we're using logic to deduce that Obito wins? Christ, the NBD would rather eat a bowl of nails than admit the founders lose to a non-God Tier


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## Kai (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> So because Madara favored Sasuke over Obito that means EMS Madara can defeat MS Obito? This is hilarious seeing the founders bias consensus struggle to come up with a way Madara wins


One MS Obito ain’t on that level.
Deal with it 



			
				MaruUchiha said:
			
		

> Why because we're using logic to deduce that Obito wins? Christ, the NBD would rather eat a bowl of nails than admit the founders lose to a non-God Tier


Believing 1 MS Obito is on a founder’s level forces you to be the first one to suspend logic.

He’s not DMS


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## Zembie (Mar 6, 2019)

Madara wins against MS Obito with med-high diff at most. Rinnegan Obito wins against the same Madara with high diff.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Kai said:


> One MS Obito ain’t on that level.
> Deal with it


Wow so that is your best argument.. So far you and Omote are neck and neck for who's reaching the hardest just to say Madara wins. I guess i don't blame you, there's not a single decent argument one can come up with to say Madara wins here


Kai said:


> Believing 1 MS Obito is on a founder’s level forces you to be the first one to suspend logic.
> 
> He’s not DMS


Nobody said he has as much firepower, but Madara has no counter against Kamui and you people are just having a hard time accepting that


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Madara wins against MS Obito with med-high diff at most.


Wanna be the first to come up with an actual legit argument for Madara winning?


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 6, 2019)

Kai said:


> Chapter 674
> 
> Madara: [Sasuke’s] “Sharingan just like mine. If he’d only been born before Obito, I’d have...
> 
> ...


Lotsa truth here


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## Bonly (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Welp you guys can celebrate, think I'm finally done making founders matches



Welp that didn't last long


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Lotsa truth here


Lots of reaching is more like it, and are you gonna reply or gonna concede again? I don't blame you, you can't win here



Kai said:


> He’s not DMS


Btw this statement is the epitome of why i say the founders are scaled to God Tier.. Why does Obito need to be in one of his God Tier forms to fight the founders?


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Bonly said:


> Welp that didn't last long


Nope, I'll never give up my mission of exposing how overrated the founders get by the bias NBD consensus


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## Zembie (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Wanna be the first to come up with an actual legit argument for Madara winning?


Actually, yea. Blind Madara who is the same as EMS Mads physically (excluding the healing) beat SM Naruto, who was fast enough to react to A3, Edo Madara has reacted to guys like A4 which to me proves that Madara is fast enough to react to a kamui blindside. To me that means that Obito would have a pretty hard time catching Mads with a suprise kamui. While Obito is pretty fast himself, I think Madara can keep his distance and outlast him because of his enormous chakra and superior CQC ability. Susanoo won't work so I won't even bother talking about it. But I def see Rinnegan Obito pulling a win tho.


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## Bonly (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Nope, I'll never give up my mission of exposing how overrated the founders get by the bias NBD consensus



More power to ya then


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## Grinningfox (Mar 6, 2019)

No knowledge is the only chance I see for Obito winning and that’s  not for a majority imo


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Actually, yea. Blind Madara who is the same as EMS Mads physically (excluding the healing) beat SM Naruto, who was fast enough to react to A3, Edo Madara has reacted to guys like A4 which to me proves that Madara is fast enough to react to a kamui blindside. To me that means that Obito would have a pretty hard time catching Mads with a suprise kamui. While Obito is pretty fast himself, I think Madara can keep his distance and outlast him because of his enormous chakra and superior CQC ability. Susanoo won't work so I won't even bother talking about it. But I def see Rinnegan Obito pulling a win tho.


1. EMS Madara isn't on Blind Madara's level physically whatsoever and people need to stop giving EMS Madara the same feats because he doesn't have Hashirama boob that makes him far more powerful
2. Minato was also extremely fast and only didn't get warped thanks to space/time ninjutsu that EMS Madara doesn't have
3. MS and Rinnegan Obito have just as much stamina as the founders so outlasting is out of question
4. Madara having superior cqc is unknown and irrelevant since cqc is a horrible idea against someone that phases thru your attacks and only needs a single touch to warp you to Boxland in a split second


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## King Ramirez (Mar 6, 2019)

Sorry to Kamui fanboys but Madara stomps neg diff. Obito would receive a worse treatment than the one he got from Minato.


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Uhh both aren't bad arguments


No youre right

Both are trash arguments 


MaruUchiha said:


> Neither have knowledge or a counter for Tsukuyomi or Kamui


Kamui is easily deduced and once deduced is easily avoided and dealt with

As I stated earlier,  So, Madara forces one phase out of Obito, he learns AT LEAST as much as Fu and Torune did, he then makes 25 fucking KBs and Obito is fucked.

And yes...Before you cry about "B...But y...you cant use Edo Madara feats Worlds! Youre being mean!" ...So preemptively piss off with that trash argument. K thanks.


MaruUchiha said:


> You just don't like the idea of the founders losing to anyone that's not Alien Tier


Founders CAN lose to loads of people who arent alien tier.

Its just not fucking 1 MS Pre Rinnegan Obito 

Get better jokes please.

Founders > Anyone else in founders tier > Nagato >>> Pain > Minato > Obito

Massive gaps here


MaruUchiha said:


> Who said Madara can't figure it out? But how does he counter it?


With the knowledge he gains from figuring it out?

Which you just conceded he can do?

Once Madara figures out what Kamui is, he safeguards against it with Kage Bunshin and Sensory abilities, with Izanagi at worst.

From there, he simply waits for Obito to try and attack his clones, and then fucks him up the ass with a blinding fast Susanoo blade when Obito solidifies. Or one of the other clones does it.

Easy peasy.


MaruUchiha said:


> Can you please stop spreading this false info you dishonest debater?


How about you go fuck yourself and learn how to actually read the manga for once in your life 


MaruUchiha said:


> Show me one single scan that indicates EMS Madara is a sensor?




In Base

With no SM


MaruUchiha said:


> don't use Edo Madara who has all of Hashirama's abilities including sensory


Youre a moron

Hashi cells dont give you fucking sensory abilities asshat 

Ask Danzo, Yamato, Obito...None of them are sensors.

Madaras sensory ability doesnt come from hashi cells.

You have zero proof OR PRECEDENCE of that fact.



How the fuck could he do that if hes only had sensory abilities as a damn Edo 

Jesus youre a trash debater 


MaruUchiha said:


> Oh and Minato is a sensor and you should know this


I said that Minato is a sensor...


WorldsStrongest said:


> a sensor non like Minato is



That was my entire point in bringing up sensory abilities

To prove that they can be used to defend and anticipate Kamui.

Meaning Madara, ANOTHER SENSOR, will be able to as well.



MaruUchiha said:


> The only thing that saved him was space/time ninjutsu that EMS Madara doesn't have


No hes just got Susanoo, which is ALSO activated just as fast as FTG is (with a thought) which can be used to keep Obito from ever getting the direct contact he needs to tag Madara to send him to boxland in the first place





If Obito tries to ghost Madara and BFR him its more likely he eats a Susanoo blade when he solidifies to try the warp than succeeding in BFRing Madara.

There are literally half a dozen things Susanoo does to stop Obito from achieving that goal even ignoring its offensive abilities.


MaruUchiha said:


> 3 tomoe Sharingan negged the 3rd strongest genjutsu in the series.. Wtf genjutsu does Madara have that would work on a mastered MS user?


Why are you incapable of retaining fucking information?

Im not saying madara is going to mind fuck Obito into a coma...he doesnt NEED to...All hed need to do is fool Obito for ONE SECOND...Which a goddamn EMS user would be more than capable of doing.

Sasuek fooled Danzo for a few seconds, took itachi off guard with genjutsu etc.

Madara can create A WINDOW against Obito with Genjutsu.

And in that window, he gets fucked by Susanoos stupid fast attack speed.




MaruUchiha said:


> Uhh no he doesn't


"Uhh" isnt an argument.

And yes.

Yes he does.

Youd be an idiot to argue that PSs AoE isnt sufficient to use up Kamuis duration if damn paper bombs were 


MaruUchiha said:


> Even if he did Obito can always phase into the ground


Then the ground gets fucked up by Madaras attacks as Obito tries to phase through them and Obito has no ground to phase through 


MaruUchiha said:


> That's why Konan had to take the ground from him


 

Trash

Trash debating


MaruUchiha said:


> Which Obito also has to counter Madara's


Which Obito never uses until Kamuis time limit has been used up

Something that wouldnt happen if Madara just feinted him instead


MaruUchiha said:


> Yet you can't think of a single way he wins


Ive thought of, and posted and explained and proved, several

Your trash "rebuttal" has done nothing to mitigate them either


MaruUchiha said:


> ive got you right where i want you finally for once


"Finally" 

"For once" 

So you concede ive stuffed your face into the mattress every other time 

Sorry kiddo looks like youre gonna have to keep biting that pillow, Im nowhere near out of options in this "debate"

Youre just kinda flailing about angrily spouting nonsense...Again...

Youve debunked literally nothing


MaruUchiha said:


> you're struggling and can't come up with anything for how a founder wins


"Struggling" 

You tell yourself whatever you need to in order to make it through this thread cupcake


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## Zembie (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> 1. EMS Madara isn't on Blind Madara's level physically whatsoever and people need to stop giving EMS Madara the same feats because he doesn't have Hashirama boob that makes him far more powerful
> 2. Minato was also extremely fast and only didn't get warped thanks to space/time ninjutsu that EMS Madara doesn't have
> 3. MS and Rinnegan Obito have just as much stamina as the founders so outlasting is out of question
> 4. Madara having superior cqc is unknown and irrelevant since cqc is a horrible idea against someone that phases thru your attacks and only needs a single touch to warp you to Boxland in a split second



1. I don't think it was ever stated that it gave him a big boost except for his asspull healing powers.

2.Minato was also distracted with the nine-tails while Obito snuck behind him, I just think that Mads has the precog and the speed fast enough to avoid kamui.

3.Sadly MS Obito hasn't shown the feats compared to his Rinnegan counterpart, and he def doesn't have as much chakra as them. He is just much more efficient with what he has which makes him a very scary shinobi to face.

4.At the end of the day Obito will have to get close, and Madara will IMO defend himself well enough(like Guy defended himself from a visit to boxland by utilizing his unique taijutsu).

I don't think MS Obito has the tech to put down EMS Madara for good, but he is still a force to be reckoned with. Rinnegan Obito on the other hand has every tech he could possibly need to put down EMS Mads without even needing to use all of the abilities he has.


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> lots of reaching is more like it


Whats reaching about whats blatantly stated 


MaruUchiha said:


> are you gonna reply or gonna concede again?


Concede "again" ???

Ive stuffed you literally every time we "debate" Mr. Obito wasnt dying he was just going to prison 


MaruUchiha said:


> you can't win here


I won the second I posted 

I usually do when you disagree with me

Thats a fact youre just gonna have to learn to live with


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

King Ramirez said:


> Sorry to Kamui fanboys but Madara stomps neg diff. Obito would receive a worse treatment than the one he got from Minato.


Neg diff?? And you're gonna leave no breakdown for how? You're gonna have to explain to us how you came to this delusional conclusion

Are people still gonna call me crazy for saying the founders get overrated when this dude just said Madara neg diffs with no way of even touching Obito?


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 6, 2019)

@Zembie wouldnt bother with maru

Hes a massive Obito wanker and a casual manga denialist 


MaruUchiha said:


> 1. EMS Madara isn't on Blind Madara's level physically whatsoever and people need to stop giving EMS Madara the same feats because he doesn't have Hashirama boob that makes him far more powerful




"Hurr durr Hashi bewbz" do not matter. Youre gonna need to get over that.

The ONLY advantage to Hashirama cells is increased stamina and vitality...Doesnt fucking make you run faster or hit harder.

Look at Danzo...Outside of the vitality to control sharingan, he received ZERO boost from it.

One day youll accept all these facts, and stop arguing with your own damn personal bias and just accept whats right in front of your face tho.


MaruUchiha said:


> 2. Minato was also extremely fast and only didn't get warped thanks to space/time ninjutsu


He got warped due to physical contact

Which Madara wont bother with

Hed attack with susanoo which Obito cant warp


MaruUchiha said:


> 3. MS and Rinnegan Obito have just as much stamina as the founders


This is baseless


MaruUchiha said:


> 4. Madara having superior cqc is unknown


Madara blatantly has better feats

So no its not


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## King Ramirez (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Neg diff?? And you're gonna leave no breakdown for how? You're gonna have to explain to us how you came to this delusional conclusion
> 
> Are people still gonna call me crazy for saying the founders get overrated when this dude just said Madara neg diffs with no way of even touching Obito?


I don't need to. He sees Kamui once figures it out and proceeds to neg diff.


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## ShinAkuma (Mar 6, 2019)

Madara likely doesn't beat Obito....

....however I don't see Obito beating Madara either. They would engage, Obito would see that he's outmatched and leave the battle.


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Are people still gonna call me crazy for saying the founders get overrated


Yes

Yes we are 

Cuz thinking Obito neg diffs, like you do is even fucking worse

And thinking Rinnegan Obito neg diffs is also just as bad

You dont need a monopoly on wank to be guilty of fucking wanking

Shocker I know

Reactions: Like 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 6, 2019)




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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Zembie said:


> 1. I don't think it was ever stated that it gave him a big boost except for his asspull healing powers.


Let me get this straight you think the Hashirama boob only gives him healing powers even tho it also gives him Senju DNA amp plus Hashirama's power and abilities stacked ontop of his own?


Zembie said:


> 2.Minato was also distracted with the nine-tails while Obito snuck behind him, I just think that Mads has the precog and the speed fast enough to avoid kamui.


Minato is also a sensor unlike EMS Madara and still wan't able to counter getting warped until the last second.. Madara's speed isn't enough to counter getting warped, he also needs space/time ninjutsu


Zembie said:


> 3.Sadly MS Obito hasn't shown the feats compared to his Rinnegan counterpart, and he def doesn't have as much chakra as them. He is just much more efficient with what he has which makes him a very scary shinobi to face


Huh? You think MS Obito doesn't have the exact same stamina and chakra reserves as Rinnegan Obito? Rinnegan was never stated to boost chakra or stamina


Zembie said:


> 4.At the end of the day Obito will have to get close, and Madara will IMO defend himself well enough(like Guy defended himself from a visit to boxland by utilizing his unique taijutsu).


Gai countered it using nunchucks that were warped shortly after.. What will Madara do to save him if he doesn't have people helping like Gai?


Zembie said:


> I don't think MS Obito has the tech to put down EMS Madara for good


Boxland or Wood Style


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> sensor unlike EMS Madara

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cad Bane (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Can the real Madara defeat the imposter?
> 
> vs
> 
> ...


Obito wins. Madara has no way of putting him down, due to his skill with Intangibility. Genjutsu would've been his best chance but considering that Obito is also an MS user and has superior genjutsu feats (controlling a perfect jinchuriki) that isn't likely to happen. All of Madara's attacks get negged by intangibility, and the " attack Obito for 5 minutes" option doesn't work because Obito can just phase into the ground to avoid it. Eventually Madara will get warped into Kamui-land. Although Obito will probably have to defeat him twice because of Izanagi.


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## Tanto (Mar 6, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> no less dumb than suggesting Itachi Beats Hashirama because “lel Tsukuyomi”



I'm curious, but why wouldn't Tsukuyomi work on him? Hashirama isn't an exception to Itachi's Tsukuyomi.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Obito is still vulnerable to Genjutsu,



Madara would be vulnerable to Obito's genjutsu too.




WorldsStrongest said:


> Speaking of Izanagi, Madara has that which he can use to hoodwink and feint Obito with.



Obito has Izanagi too.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No youre right
> 
> Both are trash arguments


"Even tho they have no knowledge of or counter to Kamui or Tsukuyomi it's still a trash argument cuz it's daring to challenge the almighty founders

"


WorldsStrongest said:


> Kamui is easily deduced and once deduced is easily avoided and dealt with


How? You haven't made a single legit argument, it's all reaching or wrong


WorldsStrongest said:


> As I stated earlier,  So, Madara forces one phase out of Obito, he learns AT LEAST as much as Fu and Torune did, he then makes 25 fucking KBs and Obito is fucked.


Madara gets warped far before he figures out Kamui's mechanics let alone making 25 Shadow Clones


WorldsStrongest said:


> And yes...Before you cry about "B...But y...you cant use Edo Madara feats Worlds! Youre being mean!" ...So preemptively piss off with that trash argument. K thanks.


Wasn't even gonna deny that.. I also believe EMS Madara can do that. Too bad he gets warped long before that


WorldsStrongest said:


> Nagato > Founders > Minato > Obito > Pain


Fixed that for you


WorldsStrongest said:


> With the knowledge he gains from figuring it out?
> 
> Which you just conceded he can do?


Conceded? I already believed Madara could figure it out



WorldsStrongest said:


> Once Madara figures out what Kamui is, he safeguards against it with Kage Bunshin and Sensory abilities, with Izanagi at worst.
> 
> From there, he simply waits for Obito to try and attack his clones, and then fucks him up the ass with a blinding fast Susanoo blade when Obito solidifies. Or one of the other clones does it.


He gets warped before he can even completely figure out Kamui let alone pull off this little scenario you've made

And i cringe every single time you claim EMS Madara has sensory when the only proof you can pull out your ass is scans of Edo Madara using sensory when he has all Hashirama's ability
Kindly asked him to not use Edo Madara

Still uses Edo Madara 

Once again.... Edo Madara only has sensory thanks to Hashi boob


WorldsStrongest said:


> Youre a moron
> 
> Hashi cells dont give you fucking sensory abilities asshat
> 
> Ask Danzo, Yamato, Obito...None of them are sensors.


Wait.. You can't be this ill informed to think Hashi boob and simple Senju DNA are the same thing..... Did Obito, Danzo, or Yamato ever use Wood Dragon, Flower World, Wood Clones, etc? No. No they didn't. Because Hashi boob actually gives you Hashirama's power and abilities, way different



WorldsStrongest said:


> How the fuck could he do that if hes only had sensory abilities as a damn Edo


Huh? How about the fact he has HASHIRAMA's FUCKING CHAKRA ON HIS CHEST??


WorldsStrongest said:


> Jesus youre a trash debater


Says the guy that's losing bad right now 


WorldsStrongest said:


> No hes just got Susanoo, which is ALSO activated just as fast as FTG is (with a thought) which can be used to keep Obito from ever getting the direct contact he needs to tag Madara to send him to boxland in the first place


As if he can't phase thru Susanoo or teleport inside his Susanoo behind him and warp him?


WorldsStrongest said:


>


Both treated like garbage against Kamui phase


WorldsStrongest said:


> If Obito tries to ghost Madara and BFR him its more likely he eats a Susanoo blade when he solidifies to try the warp than succeeding in BFRing Madara.


Huh? How does he get stabbed by a Susanoo blade if he's point blank range in front of Madara to warp him?


WorldsStrongest said:


> There are literally half a dozen things Susanoo does to stop Obito from achieving that goal even ignoring its offensive abilities.


Kamui phase/teleportation says otherwise


WorldsStrongest said:


> Why are you incapable of retaining fucking information?
> 
> Im not saying madara is going to mind fuck Obito into a coma...he doesnt NEED to...All hed need to do is fool Obito for ONE SECOND...Which a goddamn EMS user would be more than capable of doing.


What part of GENJUTSU DOESN'T WORK AGAINST 3 TOMOE SHARINGAN SO WTF WOULD IT WORK AGAINST MS don't you understand?


WorldsStrongest said:


> Then the ground gets fucked up by Madaras attacks as Obito tries to phase through them and Obito has no ground to phase through


Now you're just desperate.. If Obito is phasing how would destroying the ground do anything at all?


WorldsStrongest said:


> Which Obito never uses until Kamuis time limit has been used up


Huh?? No. In that one instance he used it after Kamui ran out.. That doesn't mean that's how he would use Izanagi every time



WorldsStrongest said:


> @Zembie wouldnt bother with maru
> 
> Hes a massive Obito wanker


Coming from a massive founder wanker


WorldsStrongest said:


> "Hurr durr Hashi bewbz" do not matter. Youre gonna need to get over that.
> 
> The ONLY advantage to Hashirama cells is increased stamina and vitality...Doesnt fucking make you run faster or hit harder.
> 
> Look at Danzo...Outside of the vitality to control sharingan, he received ZERO boost from it.


Stop embarassing yourself.. Cuz that's what you're doing trying to imply Hashi boob = Simple Senju DNA.. Show me where Danzo, Obito, or Yamato ever use Hashirama's actual abilities


WorldsStrongest said:


> He got warped due to physical contact
> 
> Which Madara wont bother with


Which he can't avoid either.. He gets warped quickly


WorldsStrongest said:


> Hed attack with susanoo which Obito cant warp


But he can shitphase thru it or teleport inside 


WorldsStrongest said:


> This is baseless


Huh?? Obito fought for days just like the founders did



WorldsStrongest said:


> Madara blatantly has better feats


Coming from someone who sleeps and showers with his founders goggles on


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Comat0se said:


> I'm curious, but why wouldn't Tsukuyomi work on him? Hashirama isn't an exception to Itachi's Tsukuyomi.


Exactly.. Fair warning, don't ever take him serious when it comes to Hashirama or EMS Madara. He scales them to God Tier, even here you see him claiming Kamui and Tsukyomi are bad arguments against the founders even tho neither of them have knowldge of or counters to Kamui or Tsukuyomi


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## Tanto (Mar 6, 2019)

Obito wins. Madara takes a trip to boxland to boxland eventually. Obito doesn't need to use his five minutes all at once.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Tanto (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Exactly.. Fair warning, don't ever take him serious when it comes to Hashirama or EMS Madara. He scales them to God Tier, even here you see him claiming Kamui and Tsukyomi are bad arguments against the founders even tho neither of them have knowldge of or counters to Kamui or Tsukuyomi



I've realised that. To me the founders are overrated. Tsukuyomi & Kamui don't have many counters & suggesting that the founders can do so easly is absurd.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Comat0se said:


> I've realised that. To me the founders are overrated. Tsukuyomi & Kamui don't have many counters & suggesting that the founders can do so easly is absurd.


Thank youuu you're the first other user I've ever heard say that on here everyone else calls me crazy! Personally I think they're even more overrated than Prime Hiruzen but only in the NBD


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## blk (Mar 6, 2019)

Not seeing Madara win here. 
As i've stated in another thread, without knowledge there is not much you can do about Kamui, it doesn't give second chances.
Obito can simply run to (or teleport behind) Madara, phase through every counter attack and then touch him. And the match would be over like that.

Actually even with knowledge, i think they stalemate each other. How could Madara ever hit Obito?


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## Trojan (Mar 6, 2019)

Besides Asspulldara controlling Obito via the seal, there is nothing he can do. No matter what his worshipers would like to believe.
We have already seen a MUCH, MUCH stronger Asspulldara trying to attack Obito, and he couldn't touch him because of Kamui.

PS is useless. It does not matter how powerful you may be if you can't touch your opponent. We have seen that with PS's counterpart (Kurama) and Naruto was not able to hit Obito despite being much, much, MUCH faster than Asspulldara, and having a backup as well.

Eventually, Asspulldara will get sucked in...


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## Trojan (Mar 6, 2019)

the fire-power arguments are as retarded as ever... 

Kaguya can open Asspulldara's mouth wide-open and take a huge ass shit in there, and then close it again.
Did that make her jutsu able to hit Kakashi when he used Kamui?  

Note: Kamui itself is unaffected by his "Sage's chakra" as it's a S/T jutsu already.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 6, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Besides Asspulldara controlling Obito via the seal


Which is still an invalid argument since EMS Madara has no idea who Obito is to even know about the seal.. Besides, it only stops him from committing suicide or becoming Juubi jinchuriki it's never stated to have any other uses


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 6, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> "Even tho they have no knowledge of or counter to Kamui or Tsukuyomi it's still a trash argument cuz it's daring to challenge the almighty founders


No its a straight up trash argument for the dozen or so reasons Ive gone over in this thread


MaruUchiha said:


> How? You haven't made a single legit argument


Ive made several

And proved several

And you sucking Obito off disproves exactly none of them

Youre just an extremely vocal troll

You arent news, hate to say

And you arent well informed either


MaruUchiha said:


> it's all reaching or wrong


Must be why Ive got scans for every claim Ive got then


MaruUchiha said:


> Madara gets warped far before he figures out Kamui's mechanics


Fu and Torune didnt 


MaruUchiha said:


> Wasn't even gonna deny that.. I also believe EMS Madara can do that


Cool


MaruUchiha said:


> Fixed that for you


Nagato doesnt beat teh founders. But its good to know you just fucking conceeded that The founders beat Obito with your own "FTFY" chain 

Close the thread now fanboy

Stop killing everyones braincells with your wank bullshit please


MaruUchiha said:


> Conceded? I already believed Madara could figure it out


...

When you agree with my premise on an argument?

Thats a concession.

Whether you opposed it to begin with or not.

Please learn how the english language works.

Concession literally means you are GRANTING something...Its synonymous with ACCEPTING, or RECOGNITION, or ACKNOWLEDGEMENT...


MaruUchiha said:


> He gets warped before he can even completely figure out Kamui


Just like Fu and Torune 


MaruUchiha said:


> And i cringe every single time you claim EMS Madara has sensory when the only proof you can pull out your ass is scans of Edo Madara using sensory when he has all Hashirama's ability


Hashis cells dont give sensory ability you blind troll.


MaruUchiha said:


> Kindly asked him to not use Edo Madara
> 
> Still uses Edo Madara


Yeah I dont fucking care what you "kindly asked" me to do

I dont follow "Prove me wrong...No not that way!" requests

Proof is fucking proof


MaruUchiha said:


> Wait.. You can't be this ill informed to think Hashi boob and simple Senju DNA are the same thing..... Did Obito, Danzo, or Yamato


None of which have generic "Senju DNA" because fucking "Senju DNA" doesnt grant you anything 

ONLY Hashis cells do 

They ALL have Hashiramas fucking cells...Hence the goddamn Mokuton they can use.

And exactly NONE OF THEM are sensors. 

Thats called me stuffing your argument that Edo Madara inherited Sensory ability from the Hashi boob...


MaruUchiha said:


> Did Obito, Danzo, or Yamato ever use Wood Dragon, Flower World, Wood Clones, etc?


Their fucking lack of skill with Mokuton has NOTHING to do with fucking sensory ability they dont have 

What a bullshit false equivalence 


MaruUchiha said:


> Huh? How about the fact he has HASHIRAMA's FUCKING CHAKRA ON HIS CHEST??


Yep 

Madara is totally fucking running around with 2 GODDAMN CHAKRA SIGNATURES

THATS IT

EVERY SENSOR NIN THAT EVER MET MADARA, LIKE BM OR SM NARUTO FOR INSTANCE, JUST CONVENIENTLY FORGOT TO FUCKING MENTION THAT

Man...Its just trash argument straight to flaming dumpster argument with you isnt it?


MaruUchiha said:


> Says the guy that's losing bad right now


Says the guy who can get NO ONE to agree with ANYTHING hes said EVER and is now resorting to making shit up 

Your opinion on whos winning or losing a debate literally doesnt even register in anyones mind kiddo


MaruUchiha said:


> As if he can't phase thru Susanoo or teleport inside


As if he can phase while grabbing or attacking or warping Madara


MaruUchiha said:


> his Susanoo behind him and warp him?


Hows he gonna know which Susanoo it is 

There will be 26 of them he has to choose from 


MaruUchiha said:


> Both treated like garbage against Kamui phase


Then Madara simply gets distance from Obito while hes phasing 

Obito cant warp or hurt him in any way if Madara is forcing him to keep fucking phasing now can he 




MaruUchiha said:


> Huh? How does he get stabbed by a Susanoo blade if he's point blank range in front of Madara to warp him?


Cuz Susanoo striking speed > Kamui warp speed...Easily. Especially when Obito has yet to fucking lay a hand on Madara.

And while Obito is trying to warp someone, hes solid.



MaruUchiha said:


> Kamui phase/teleportation says otherwise


If hes phasing or teleporting he cant fucking attack

So mission accomplished regardless

Really cant believe how little you understand about your husbands power considering how much you wank and talk about it 


MaruUchiha said:


> What part of GENJUTSU DOESN'T WORK AGAINST 3 TOMOE SHARINGAN SO WTF WOULD IT WORK AGAINST MS don't you understand?


Youre genuinely a fool

I just listed Genjutsu affecting fucking MS users MULTIPLE TIMES OVER and you retort with this shit???

Read the fucking manga you cretin 

Genuinely fuck off trying to debate with me until you do

You genuinely dont even know what youre citing half the time...No scratch that...100% of the time.


MaruUchiha said:


> Now you're just desperate.. If Obito is phasing how would destroying the ground do anything at all?


 

This is worse than pulling teeth...Honestly debating with this kid is so fucking tedious 

Kiddo...Youre teh one who stated that Obito going into the ground allows him to lolnope fucking everything because, "unlike Konan" Madara cant split the ground...I just told you that yes, Madara can in fact split teh ground, and youre asking me about relevancy?

YOURE THE ONE WHO RAISED THE POINT GENIUS

I need a drink

Genuinely


MaruUchiha said:


> Huh?? No. In that one instance he used it after Kamui ran out.. That doesn't mean that's how he would use Izanagi every time


Kinda does

Because Obito has no other use for Izanagi unless Kamui isnt an option


MaruUchiha said:


> Coming from a massive founder wanker


The biggest wanker on this site, according to literally everybody, doesnt have the right to throw around words like this

Not while being taken seriously anyway


MaruUchiha said:


> Stop embarassing yourself.. Cuz that's what you're doing trying to imply Hashi boob = Simple Senju DNA


No

No im not

Whats fucking embarassing is that you think this is what I was saying...Or that this is a valid retort to fucking anything ever.


MaruUchiha said:


> Which he can't avoid either


He avoids physical contact with susanoo

Just fine


MaruUchiha said:


> Obito fought for days just like the founders did


FUCKING WHEN 


MaruUchiha said:


> Coming from someone who sleeps and showers with his founders goggles on


Thi sisnt an argument

Madara blatantly has better CQC feats than Obito does

This is a fact

Get over it


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 6, 2019)

Maru, just concede. Save yourself the trouble.


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## Cad Bane (Mar 6, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Madara blatantly has better CQC feats than Obito does


How? Obito literally needs a single touch to win in CQC. And his intangibility protects him until he has the opening to materialize and warp.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 6, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> How? Obito literally needs a single touch to win in CQC. And his intangibility protects him until he has the opening to materialize and warp.



Warping isn't instant, in case you were wondering. Top that with the fact that Madara has sensing + Sharingan precog, and we won't be having any boxland adventures anytime soon.


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## Zembie (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Let me get this straight you think the Hashirama boob only gives him healing powers even tho it also gives him Senju DNA amp plus Hashirama's power and abilities stacked ontop of his own?
> 
> Minato is also a sensor unlike EMS Madara and still wan't able to counter getting warped until the last second.. Madara's speed isn't enough to counter getting warped, he also needs space/time ninjutsu
> 
> ...


1.Madara is a sensor, he sensed his senju boyfriend before he went to the battlefield.

2.Sadly we can speculate all we want about what hash DNA does but for now.its safe to say its only healing and this Madara is our only benchmark of his alive self.

3 Never claimed that they have different chakra capacity, just that rinnegan Obito has the better feats to put him on the founders level.

4.Madara has probably the best taijutsu in the series next to Guy and Rock lee. I just don't see how Obito gets near him or is fast enough to wrap him.

Don't let your hate for the founders get in the way of your arguments.I can admit they are STRONK. I love Obito(even more than Madara) and I think some people underrate him, but wanking the character is not the way. Even if you don't agree I hope we end this with no harsh feelings between each other

Reactions: Like 1


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2019)

Madara is way out of his league with reflexes that enabled him to physically compete with Tobirama and speed that exceeds EMS Sasuke that had no issues with tracking and reacting Juubito (after his ocular powers matured). Obito isn't touching him at all. The moment he materializes to absorb/attack Madara will be countered by a significantly faster strike or Susano'o which Obito has no way of actually defending without Kamui. As someone mentioned before, both of Danzo's henchmen worked out the basic principles of Kamui and Madara is actually one of the smartest shinobi to have ever lived by devising an entire strategy that ensured his revival along with the Juubi even decades after his own death. There's no way Obito competes with him.


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## Kai (Mar 7, 2019)

Hussain said:
			
		

> We have already seen a MUCH, MUCH stronger Asspulldara trying to attack Obito, and he couldn't touch him because of Kamui.


So what do you call EMS tracking a much, much stronger Obito? Even if we say Madara is not Sasuke, EMS should be able to easily trace MS Obito’s CQC moves.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2019)

Kai said:


> So what do you call EMS tracking a much, much stronger Obito? Even if we say Madara is not Sasuke, EMS should be able to easily trace MS Obito’s CQC moves.



 Madara should have superior precognition because the Sharingan is a manifestation of one's chakra and Madara's PS far exceeds Sasuke. We can safely apply EMS Sasuke's feats to Madara at the very least.


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## Ishmael (Mar 7, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Madara has no way of putting him down, due to his skill with Intangibility



Once that runs out, what's obitos counter?



DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Genjutsu would've been his best chance but considering that Obito is also an MS user and has superior genjutsu feats



Wrong lol his feats aren't superior. Madaras genjutsu feats>obitos. We see him controlling kurama, being able to catch A4 and paralyze him as well as the other alliance fodder. Those are in combat genjutsu feats btw, plus his eye is superior so if it did come down to it he'd over power obitos genjutsu. 



DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Eventually Madara will get warped into Kamui-land. Although Obito will probably have to defeat him twice because of Izanagi.



Another no, Madara wins here, with knowledge being manga we have to many instances of Madara showing he knows enough about kamui and how to break down the mechanics. He's not dumb. Obito has to solidify and Madara is a sensor, so sneak attacks are null, ouching him or he could create clones and work his way around the kamui.


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## Ishmael (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Which is still an invalid argument since EMS Madara has no idea who Obito is to even know about the seal..



Huh?


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## Cad Bane (Mar 7, 2019)

UchihaX28 said:


> Madara is way out of his league with reflexes that enabled him to physically compete with Tobirama and speed that exceeds EMS Sasuke that had no issues with tracking and reacting Juubito (after his ocular powers matured). Obito isn't touching him at all. The moment he materializes to absorb/attack Madara will be countered by a significantly faster strike or Susano'o which Obito has no way of actually defending without Kamui. As someone mentioned before, both of Danzo's henchmen worked out the basic principles of Kamui and Madara is actually one of the smartest shinobi to have ever lived by devising an entire strategy that ensured his revival along with the Juubi even decades after his own death. There's no way Obito competes with him.



Obito has superior reaction and speed feats than Madara. He was able to keep up with and react to Minato and KCM Naruto in fights. Madara is definitely not winning by outspeeding him. Obito wins this fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ishmael (Mar 7, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> How? Obito literally needs a single touch to win in CQC.



How does that refute Madara being better in cqc? Having a hax ability doesn't guarantee you superior skill in a field. Obito cqc exchanges don't amount to Madaras.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Obito has superior reaction and speed feats than Madara. He was able to keep up with and react to Minato and KCM Naruto in fights. Madara is definitely not winning by outspeeding him. Obito wins this fight.



 And EMS Madara can keep up with Juubito and his weaker Edo form managed to react to a surprise attack from V2 Raikage point-blank. Base Minato and KCM Naruto aren't even close to that level of speed. EMS Madara would have no issues keeping up with them in terms of speed and reflexes.


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## Cad Bane (Mar 7, 2019)

@Ishmael 

Obito controlled Kurama too and a perfect jinchuriki for years. Genjutsu'ing Kurama and a perfect jin >>>>> Genjutsu'ing Kurama and A4. 

Obito has insane reaction and speed feats so Madara is never tagging him with a physical attack, even with clones. Considering Obito took on KCM Naruto, B , Kakashi and Guy all at once without ever being tagged. Obito's fire style in the war arc was shown to be just as powerful as Madara's.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2019)

I think @DoctorDoom6789 has doomed himself by making this thread.


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## Cad Bane (Mar 7, 2019)

UchihaX28 said:


> I think @DoctorDoom6789 has doomed himself by making this thread.


Except I didn't make this thread... @MaruUchiha did.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Except I didn't make this thread... @MaruUchiha did.


Mmmmmm too bad I forgot about that chump.


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## Ishmael (Mar 7, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Obito controlled Kurama too and a perfect jinchuriki for years. Genjutsu'ing Kurama and a perfect jin >>>>> Genjutsu'ing Kurama and A4.



Even if we go by your logic, obito has no feats using Genjutsu effectively in a fight against anyone. His eyes aren't superior therefore he'd lose a genjutsu battle, these are things that have been given to us. EMS>MS. 



DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Obito has insane reaction and speed feats so Madara is never tagging him with a physical attack,



Please drop scans lmao I seriously wonder where you all get this stuff from man. Obito has no feats suggesting he's physically reacting to any cqc attack from Madara. He has good mental reactions but his lack of physical  doesn't help your argument. 



DoctorDoom6789 said:


> even with clones.



So you think he's just going to dodge Madara and his clones rapidly without getting tagged? Be for real. 



DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Obito's fire style in the war arc was shown to be just as powerful as Madara's.



Okay....lol don't see how that helps him, his quantity yes but we know chakra quality(strength) is a thing. Madara justu overpowers, his chakra is more potent than obitos. If you don't want to go by that gunbai negs as well. Next. 



DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Considering Obito took on KCM Naruto, B , Kakashi and Guy all at once without ever being tagged



Guess we read two different war arcs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ishmael (Mar 7, 2019)

Also @ShinAkuma answer was probably the most legit here. Obito would probably get written up in this fight running away or backing out after realizing he's overmatched.


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## Cad Bane (Mar 7, 2019)

@Ishmael 

Obito kept up with and reacted to Minato and KCM Naruto in fights, so there's his speed feats.

If Madara tries to overwhelm him with clones, then if worst to worst Obito can phase into the ground. And remember that this is living Madara, so he can't spam clones like he did when he was an Edo with infinite chakra.


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## Ishmael (Mar 7, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Obito kept up with and reacted to Minato and KCM Naruto in fights, so there's his speed feats.



He played defensively and use kamui. That's legit all he did in the war arc against Naruto and the rest until they came up with a plan to hit him. There wasn't any physical reactions, simply kamui intangibility. 



DoctorDoom6789 said:


> If Madara tries to overwhelm him with clones, then if worst to worst Obito can phase into the ground.



Nice offensive counter, a game of cat and mouse sounds fun. 



DoctorDoom6789 said:


> And remember that this is living Madara, so he can't spam clones like he did when he was an Edo with infinite chakra.



Lol nobody said anything about spamming, 2 is just enough.


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2019)

Kai said:


> So what do you call EMS tracking a much, much stronger Obito? Even if we say Madara is not Sasuke, EMS should be able to easily trace MS Obito’s CQC moves.


What does tracking have to do with anything? 



> EMS should be able to easily trace MS Obito’s CQC moves.


nice, then what? 
it was never about tracing his CQC in the first place... 
Are you saying those who couldn't touch him was because they couldn't trace him?


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Obito has superior reaction and speed feats than Madara. He was able to keep up with and react to Minato and KCM Naruto in fights. Madara is definitely not winning by outspeeding him. Obito wins this fight.



Which manga are you reading? It sounds hilarious because Madara has A) superior precog B) superior stats and C) the feat of fighting an entire fucking platoon neg diff until he started getting ganked by multiple important characters at once. 

What does Obito have that tops that? He was getting stalled by BASE Gai with Nunchaku.


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## Zembie (Mar 7, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Which manga are you reading? It sounds hilarious because Madara has A) superior precog B) superior stats and C) the feat of fighting an entire fucking platoon neg diff until he started getting ganked by multiple important characters at once.
> 
> What does Obito have that tops that? He was getting stalled by BASE Gai with Nunchaku.


Hey, Guy is the strongest taijutsu user ever, so his CQC is probably even superior to Madara.
I agree with your post, but Rinne Obito was just stalling for the Juubi, not the other way around.


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Hey, Guy is the strongest taijutsu user ever, so his CQC is probably even superior to Madara.
> I agree with your post, but Rinne Obito was just stalling for the Juubi, not the other way around.



Gai is the best Taijutsu user, for sure. But in base, he does not top Madara fucking Uchiha who has precog and sensing. Obito was stalling, but so was Gai, or he would have used Gates


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## Zembie (Mar 7, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Gai is the best Taijutsu user, for sure. But in base, he does not top Madara fucking Uchiha who has precog and sensing. Obito was stalling, but so was Gai, or he would have used Gates


I thought he was too exhausted for the gates? Or am I wrong?


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

Zembie said:


> I thought he was too exhausted for the gates? Or am I wrong?


You may be right, but he surely could have used 1 or 2 without much trouble


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## Tanto (Mar 7, 2019)

@WorldsStrongest this is exactly what I talk about when I said you're biased. Claiming Itachi's Tsukuyomi won't work because He is Hashirama isn't an excuse.


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## Azula (Mar 7, 2019)

Madara doesn't get to use lolmoutainbuster to win without even having any counter. S/T is just as much as PS when it comes to being OP.



It can effortlessly counter BM attacks which are >5 Bijuus at this point. PS is nothing.

Either Madara has a counter or he gets trolled like everyone else.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Azula (Mar 7, 2019)

Madara also cannot exhaust Kamui's 5 minute limit, he will have to fill every inch of the air with attacks. The swords however big they are cannot do it continuously for 5 minutes. Any break the 5 minute limit is reset.

Madara is more likely to run out of chakra since he is pumping more chakra into his PS. VOTE lasted for only 10 minutes as far as  PS usage is concerned.


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## Hi no Ishi (Mar 7, 2019)

Madara is hella stronger and still loses.

Obito has better genjutsu feats, can't really be hit by Madara's attacks and can land his attacks easier.

If Obito goes for the blindside and Madara takes a swing at him physically like Minato then he gets warped when he gets phased through like Minato but with no S/T to save him mid warp. And since the majority of places on Obito's body aren't lethal blows I don't really see Susano'o being likely to stop him him mid warp.

If Madara goes straight to Susano'o Obito strolls through it like every thing else and stabs him with Wood Release Cutting Sprigs or a Black Reciever , and ask Gaara's sand if you can move around inside Susano'o.
Hint: yes.

Or he warps him while inside his Susano'o.

JJ Madara and Kaguya already showed that the strength difference means very little when you don't know about Kamui. 

As for the 5 minute phasing limit that Madara has no idea about whatsoever, he has shown 0 attacks that he can use to constantly damage an area for five minutes straight with no openings anyway.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShadowSoul (Mar 7, 2019)

Can someone explain to me this whole fu and torune figured out the mechanics rhetoric .. I mean yes and they literally got lol nodiffed in like 5 seconds. Knowing and stopping kamui are two different things


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Fu and Torune didnt


Congrats, the first decent point you've made


WorldsStrongest said:


> But its good to know you just fucking conceeded that The founders beat Obito with your own "FTFY" chain


I never denied EMS Madara > MS Obito, but if they  fought Madara would lose since Madara has no knowledge of or counter to Kamui


WorldsStrongest said:


> When you agree with my premise on an argument?
> 
> Thats a concession.
> 
> ...


You have no idea what you're talking about.. Here's 3 different definitions of concede:
1. admit that something is true or valid after first denying or resisting it.


(1): to acknowledge grudgingly or hesitantly

If you concede in a , you  that you have :

Hold your L


WorldsStrongest said:


> I dont follow "Prove me wrong...No not that way!" requests


That's not what I did.. I asked for proof EMS Madara can use sensory not EMS Madara yet you still use Edo Madara like Edo Madara doesn't have an altered body or some shit


WorldsStrongest said:


> None of which have generic "Senju DNA" because fucking "Senju DNA" doesnt grant you anything
> 
> ONLY Hashis cells do


Stop trying to change the subject.. You know wtf i meant by Senju DNA


WorldsStrongest said:


> They ALL have Hashiramas fucking cells...Hence the goddamn Mokuton they can use.
> 
> And exactly NONE OF THEM are sensors


I never denied they have his cells, I asked do they have Hashirama's fucking head on their chest that gives them all Hashirama's power and abilities like Edo Madara??


WorldsStrongest said:


> .Thats called me stuffing your argument that Edo Madara inherited Sensory ability from the Hashi boob...


No it's called an awful comeback that doesn't prove me wrong.. Hashirama DNA =/= Hashirama boob


WorldsStrongest said:


> Their fucking lack of skill with Mokuton has NOTHING to do with fucking sensory ability they dont have
> 
> What a bullshit false equivalence


Classic founders wank from the man himself.. So the fact Edo Madara can use all Hashirama's abilities is just him being that much more skilled with Wood Style than Obito, Danzo, or Yamato? It has nothing to do with the fact Madara had Hashirma's fucking head on his chest that gave him all Hashirama's powers?


WorldsStrongest said:


> Yep
> 
> Madara is totally fucking running around with 2 GODDAMN CHAKRA SIGNATURES
> 
> ...


What the fuck is this? Sage Mode and Bijuu Mode Naruto wouldn't recognize Hashirama's chakra and even if they did why the fuck would they feel the need to mention it?


WorldsStrongest said:


> Says the guy who can get NO ONE to agree with ANYTHING hes said EVER


Multiple people agree with me on this thread that Obito wins


WorldsStrongest said:


> I just listed Genjutsu affecting fucking MS users MULTIPLE TIMES OVER and you retort with this shit???


Show me a time where genjutsu affected a Sharingan user that wasn't willingly trying to be put in a genjutsu?


WorldsStrongest said:


> This is worse than pulling teeth...Honestly debating with this kid is so fucking tedious
> 
> Kiddo...Youre teh one who stated that Obito going into the ground allows him to lolnope fucking everything because, "unlike Konan" Madara cant split the ground...I just told you that yes, Madara can in fact split teh ground, and youre asking me about relevancy?
> 
> YOURE THE ONE WHO RAISED THE POINT GENIUS


I said Obito phases into the ground and you say Madara destroys the ground......

Wtf does that do to Obito if he's phasing?


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Maru, just concede. Save yourself the trouble.


I don't feel the need to, all of his arguments are either wrong or reaching in the name of the founders and you being his cheerleader spamming him with Winner ratings doesn't change that


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Madara has sensing


Show me proof that EMS Madara has sensing, and please don't stoop so low as Worlds to go digging for an Edo Madara scan knowing damn well Edo Madara has all Hashirama's abilities including sensing

Why does the NBD love giving EMS Madara the same feats as the far more powerful War Madara?


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

Zembie said:


> 1.Madara is a sensor, he sensed his senju boyfriend before he went to the battlefield.
> 
> 2.Sadly we can speculate all we want about what hash DNA does but for now.its safe to say its only healing and this Madara is our only benchmark of his alive self.
> 
> ...


1. EDO Madara is a sensor not EMS Madara
2. Uhh no Hashi boob is way different from simple Hashi DNA, one doesn't give you all Hashirama's power and abilities
3. MS Obito has the same capabilities as Rinnegan Obito outside of Rinnegan justu
4. There's not a single sliver of proof of that.. That statement is pure dishonest founders hype
And it's ironic for you to accuse me of hate or wank when i'm doing neither.. In fact is alot of you wanking Madara.. I had high hopes for you Zembie, disappointed to see you're gonna be yet another founders hypeman in the NBD (Like we didn't have enough already)


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Show me proof that EMS Madara has sensing, and please don't stoop so low as Worlds to go digging for an Edo Madara scan knowing damn well Edo Madara has all Hashirama's abilities including sensing
> 
> Why does the NBD love giving EMS Madara the same feats as the far more powerful War Madara?



So basically, you think Hashiboob (lots of Hashi cells) gives sensing. It logically only gives sensing when SM is active, given that no one else has sensing because of Hashi cells. I don't understand why you can't see that. _Nowhere_, bar your fanfic, is it implied that Hashi cells give sensing.


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Uhh no Hashi boob is way different from simple Hashi DNA, one doesn't give you all Hashirama's power and abilities



It is literally a clump of his cells. The only difference is one gives the user access to SM


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## Zembie (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> 1. EDO Madara is a sensor not EMS Madara
> 2. Uhh no Hashi boob is way different from simple Hashi DNA, one doesn't give you all Hashirama's power and abilities
> 3. MS Obito has the same capabilities as Rinnegan Obito outside of Rinnegan justu
> 4. There's not a single sliver of proof of that.. That statement is pure dishonest founders hype
> And it's ironic for you to accuse me of hate or wank when i'm doing neither.. In fact is alot of you wanking Madara.. I had high hopes for you Zembie, disappointed to see you're gonna be yet another founders hypeman in the NBD (Like we didn't have enough already)



Not wanking Mads, just trying to prove to you why I think he wins against this version of Obito.

1.Both Madara are sensors as it was never said Edo or Hashi boob or DNA make you a sensor.

2.Hashi boob and his DNA are the same, everyone implated with Hashi cells has some form of wood release (and Madara got his asspull rinnegan powers)

3.Never claimed that they have different chakra capacity, just that Rinnegan Obito has the better feats to put him on the founders level. By that I think we can all agree that Rinne Obito showed better feats (you can't argue about this one) than his MS counterpart.

4.I think its a pretty legit statement, when taking into account he fodderstomped TONS of fodder when he was reanimated. Obito hasn't shown that impressive CQC (not that he needs them lets be honest).

I think its much more fair if I argue about RInne Obito because I see him actually beating the founders, heck I even see him beating Edo Madara(which was a thread I posted and thought otherwise). Ofc there is always a way he can win, but for me its just not enough to prove TO ME that he can win with MS.
No harsh feelings


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

You should've just stayed on the sidelines spamming Worlds with Winner ratings, time to get humiliated


ThomasTheCat said:


> So basically, you think Hashiboob (lots of Hashi cells)


Wait you thought all Hashi boob was was just Hashi DNA? So why can Edo Madara use all Hashirama's abilities unlike other people who only has Hashi DNA instead of Hashi boob?


ThomasTheCat said:


> gives sensing


Uhh no not just sensing all Hashi's abilities


ThomasTheCat said:


> It logically only gives sensing when SM is active


Because you say so? Then why did Edo Madara have sensing? And please don't say because he already had sensing unless you can show me proof of EMS Madara being a sensor


ThomasTheCat said:


> given that no one else has sensing because of Hashi cells


How many times do I have to say Hashi cells =/= Hashi boob?


ThomasTheCat said:


> _Nowhere_, bar your fanfic, is it implied that Hashi cells give sensing.


How about ON PANEL FROM EDO MADARA?? And pleeease stop acting like Hashi boob is the same as Hashi cells because if it was Obito, Danzo, and Yamato would also have all Hashirama's abilities like Edo Madara


ThomasTheCat said:


> It is literally a clump of his cells.


No it's his fucking head infused into Madara's body, it's basically Madara and Hashirama fused


ThomasTheCat said:


> The only difference is one gives the user access to SM



Uhh that's because Hashi boob gives you Hashirama's abilities unlike Hashi cells!


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

Zembie said:


> 1.Both Madara are sensors as it was never said Edo or Hashi boob or DNA make you a sensor.
> 
> 2.Hashi boob and his DNA are the same, everyone implated with Hashi cells has some form of wood release (and Madara got his asspull rinnegan powers)


So fucking done murdering these points.. One of you show me EMS Madara using senseory then we can revisit this topic..

Not sure how you can see Edo Madara using all Hashirama's abilities but assume EMS Madara had sensory too.. Did EMS Madara also have Flower World and Wood Dragon too?


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

UchihaX28 said:


> Madara is way out of his league with reflexes that enabled him to physically compete with Tobirama


Obito fought against Minato and KCM Naruto who are faster


UchihaX28 said:


> and speed that exceeds EMS Sasuke


What proof do you have of this?


UchihaX28 said:


> Obito isn't touching him at all.


The fucking irony


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## Zembie (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> So fucking done murdering these points.. One of you show me EMS Madara using senseory then we can revisit this topic..
> 
> Not sure how you can see Edo Madara using all Hashirama's abilities but assume EMS Madara had sensory too.. Did EMS Madara also have Flower World and Wood Dragon too?


I am going to tell it to you straight: EMS Madara is featless, we don't actually know what he can do except his Kurama Susanoo, but we are trying to speculate since his statements haven't disproven our points. There is no reason to think Hashi's boob gave him sensing, he hasn't stated to have given him sensing or some shit.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

Zembie said:


> There is no reason to think Hashi's boob gave him sensing


It gave him all Hashirama's abilities.. Hashirama had sensing. Nothing suggests EMS Madara is a sensor. Edo Madara has sensing. How is it not because of the Hashi boob he has sensing? Oh I know, because the NBD loves giving EMS Madatra the same feats as War Madara


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## Atlantic Storm (Mar 7, 2019)

Do you think Edo Madara was faster than living Madara?


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## Zembie (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> It gave him all Hashirama's abilities.. Hashirama had sensing. Nothing suggests EMS Madara is a sensor. Edo Madara has sensing. How is it not because of the Hashi boob he has sensing? Oh I know, because the NBD loves giving EMS Madatra the same feats as War Madara


Lets agree to disagree, no harsh feelings.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

iruka umino said:


> Do you think Edo Madara was faster than living Madara?


Yes, unlike most people in the NBD i think Edo Madara >>> EMS Madara. The Hashi boob is a massive powerup and correct me if i'm wrong but Edo Madara has all Hashirama's powerso shouldn't his body be more enhanced too? Basically a fusion of Madara and Hashirama?


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2019)




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## Artistwannabe (Mar 7, 2019)

@Hussain 
I don't know if I get the right context for these scans, but if they are to prove Obito's reaction time against a superior Mads', Isn't he on rikudou steroids here? He was able to recreate the shakujo he had when he was Juubi jinchuriki, and Madara even states that since Obito was in Sage mode before he stole sage chakra from him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> You should've just stayed on the sidelines spamming Worlds with Winner ratings, time to get humiliated





MaruUchiha said:


> Wait you thought all Hashi boob was was just Hashi DNA? So why can Edo Madara use all Hashirama's abilities unlike other people who only has Hashi DNA instead of Hashi boob?


Madara has Mokuton. Who else has Mokuton? Let's see... Obito! Obito has what, again? Hashi cells! Madara had ages to learn Mokuton, meanwhile Obito used like a side hoe because his mind is set on Kamui.


MaruUchiha said:


> How many times do I have to say Hashi cells =/= Hashi boob?


As many times as it takes for you to realize what you're saying is wrong.


MaruUchiha said:


> How about ON PANEL FROM EDO MADARA?? And pleeease stop acting like Hashi boob is the same as Hashi cells because if it was Obito, Danzo, and Yamato would also have all Hashirama's abilities like Edo Madara


So Madara states, "ON PANEL", that Hashiboob gives sensing? Please drop that scan for us.


MaruUchiha said:


> No it's his fucking head infused into Madara's body, it's basically Madara and Hashirama fused


Again, Hashi cells. If we wanna go with your "head infused" idea, then it makes sense for his understanding of Jutsu to go into Madara, but not sensing because that is a different thing entirely.

Alternatively, you're talking nonsense and it's just cells. Madara saw _every move_ that Hashi had more than anyone bar Hashi himself. Kakashi, using the Sharingan, could learn a move by seeing it _once_. Imagine what Madara fucking Uchiha can do by seeing them a shit ton of times. From this _logical_ deduction, I can say, with confidence, that it _just makes sense_ for Madara to be able to use all of Hashi's Mokuton-related Jutsu. Madara got Mokuton from Hashi cells, and knew how to use the various Jutsu from seeing them 800 times. Is that too hard to understand?



MaruUchiha said:


> Uhh that's because Hashi boob gives you Hashirama's abilities unlike Hashi cells!


See above


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> @Hussain
> I don't know if I get the right context for these scans, but if they are to prove Obito's reaction time against a superior Mads', Isn't he on rikudou steroids here? He was able to recreate the shakujo he had when he was Juubi jinchuriki, and Madara even states that since Obito was in Sage mode before he stole sage chakra from him.



No, just to display how Kamui works


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## Artistwannabe (Mar 7, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> No, just to display how Kamui works


Oh, Ignore me then


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> @Hussain
> I don't know if I get the right context for these scans, but if they are to prove Obito's reaction time against a superior Mads', Isn't he on rikudou steroids here? He was able to recreate the shakujo he had when he was Juubi jinchuriki, and Madara even states that since Obito was in Sage mode before he stole sage chakra from him.


Rikudou steroids do not effect Kamui's speed, so that's irrelevant. Also, he got the Bijuus pulled out of him and used the RT.
he was a walking zombie

Reactions: Like 1


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Madara has Mokuton. Who else has Mokuton? Let's see... Obito! Obito has what, again? Hashi cells! Madara had ages to learn Mokuton, meanwhile Obito used like a side hoe because his mind is set on Kamui.
> 
> As many times as it takes for you to realize what you're saying is wrong.
> 
> So Madara states, "ON PANEL", that Hashiboob gives sensing? Please drop that scan for us.


Holy shit this is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard in the Battledome.... You do know Madara was already infused with Hashi DNA before he died right? Are you trying to say Madara after he survived his fight at Final Valley and infused himself with Hashirama's cells can also use Hashirama's Wood Style abilities like Edo Madara? And on that note why would Kabuto feel the need to infuse Madara with more Hashi DNA if Madara already had it?


ThomasTheCat said:


> Again, Hashi cells. If we wanna go with your "head infused" idea, then it makes sense for his understanding of Jutsu to go into Madara



What the fuck is this? I never said the head was alive and shared Hashi's knowledge, I said it gives Madara his power and abilities


ThomasTheCat said:


> Alternatively, you're talking nonsense and it's just cells. Madara saw _every move_ that Hashi had more than anyone bar Hashi himself. Kakashi, using the Sharingan, could learn a move by seeing it _once_. Imagine what Madara fucking Uchiha can do by seeing them a shit ton of times. From this _logical_ deduction, I can say, with confidence, that it _just makes sense_ for Madara to be able to use all of Hashi's Mokuton-related Jutsu. Madara got Mokuton from Hashi cells, and knew how to use the various Jutsu from seeing them 800 times. Is that too hard to understand?


LMFAO he said assuming Edo Madara has all Hashirama's Wood Style abilities thanks to Sharingan not Hashirama's fucking head on his chest is a logical deduction! This is getting cancerous


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## Artistwannabe (Mar 7, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Rikudou steroids do not effect Kamui's speed, so that's irrelevant. Also, he got the Bijuus pulled out of him and used the RT.
> he was a walking zombie


Zombie or not, rikudou steroids are no joke, just look at Kakashi. But I see what you mean, almost forgot phasing was instantaneous.


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Holy shit this is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard in the Battledome.... You do know Madara was already infused with Hashi DNA before he died right? Are you trying to say Madara after he survived his fight at Final Valley and infused himself with Hashirama's cells can also use Hashirama's Wood Style abilities like Edo Madara? And on that note why would Kabuto feel the need to infuse Madara with more Hashi DNA if Madara already had it?


He was _attatched_ to Hashi's cells via the tree. They kept him alive. Of course he would want more of them. Kabuto felt the need, maybe, because Hashi's cells are the most broken things in the verse. Regen, Mokuton, what more do you want?


MaruUchiha said:


> LMFAO he said assuming Edo Madara has all Hashirama's Wood Style abilities thanks to Sharingan not Hashirama's fucking head on his chest is a logical deduction! This is getting cancerous


What's getting cancerous is how ignorant you're getting


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> He was _attatched_ to Hashi's cells via the tree.



What the fuck is this shit? Zetsu is what gives you Hashirama's cells not the Gedo Mazo, and the Gedo Mazo isn't a tree.. And I think you should reread the manga, Madara infused himself with Hashi cells after the Final Valley fight and he didn't attach himself to the Gedo Mazo until he was old and about to die.. Why do you think Madara awakened the Rinnegan and was able to summon the Gedo Mazo to even attach to? Because he had Hashirama's cells. So either concede or reach for the stars and claim Madara could use Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc after his Final Valley fight Hashirama


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Zetsu is what gives you Hashirama's cells


retconned.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

Hussain said:


> retconned.


What makes you think that? It's completely false tho, why would Obito have Wood Style and faux EMS?


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> What makes you think that? It's completely false tho, why would Obito have Wood Style and faux EMS?


Zetsu existed 1000 years before Hashirama was even born, how can they be made of his cells? 

they are the people trapped in the Infinite Tsukuyomi from Kaguya's time...


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Zetsu existed 1000 years before Hashirama was even born, how can they be made of his cells?
> 
> they are the people trapped in the Infinite Tsukuyomi from Kaguya's time...


Didn't Madara say he infused them with Hashi DNA? Why would Obito have Wood Style then?


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Didn't Madara say he infused them with Hashi DNA? Why would Obito have Wood Style then?


Can't you read that panel? 
Black Zetsu manipulated Asspulldara and made him think the things he believes to be true. 
He also thought he was the one who created Black Zetsu, no? Does not mean he is correct.

Asspulldara did not know shit... 

Yes, "Originally" the Zetsus were made from/by Hashirama & Asspulldara, but now they are related to Kaguya and her people.
Hence, Retconned.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Can't you read that panel?
> Black Zetsu manipulated Asspulldara and made him think the things he believes to be true.
> He also thought he was the one who created Black Zetsu, no? Does not mean he is correct.
> 
> ...


I'll ask again since you skipped it


MaruUchiha said:


> Why would Obito have Wood Style then?


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> I'll ask again since you skipped it


Because Zetsu has it, obviously...  


in case you haven't noticed, Hashirama is NOT the first wood-style user, nor does this KKG come from him (only?) either...


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 7, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Because Zetsu has it, obviously...


Fair enough?


Hussain said:


> in case you haven't noticed, Hashirama is NOT the first wood-style user, nor does this KKG come from him (only?) either...


Literally never denied that


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> What the fuck is this shit? Zetsu is what gives you Hashirama's cells not the Gedo Mazo, and the Gedo Mazo isn't a tree.. And I think you should reread the manga, Madara infused himself with Hashi cells after the Final Valley fight and he didn't attach himself to the Gedo Mazo until he was old and about to die.. Why do you think Madara awakened the Rinnegan and was able to summon the Gedo Mazo to even attach to? Because he had Hashirama's cells. So either concede or reach for the stars and claim Madara could use Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc after his Final Valley fight Hashirama


Yes, clearly I was high on something while posting that tree bit

Just reread and one translation says "I was able to get my hands on Hashirama Senju's cells" and another says "After fighting and obtaining Senju Hasirama's cells"

So he took them from Hashi's corpse, unlocked the Rinnegan right before death, and summoned the GM. No Zetsu involved there


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## Cad Bane (Mar 7, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> the feat of fighting an entire fucking platoon neg diff until he started getting ganked by multiple important characters at once.


Which means absolutely nothing because those ninja were fodder. Hebi Sasuke solo'd an entire platoon of ninja too, Sasori solo'd an entire nation, and Obito solo'd an entire platoon of Mist Anbu when he was 14.


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 7, 2019)

DoctorDoom6789 said:


> Which means absolutely nothing because those ninja were fodder. Hebi Sasuke solo'd an entire platoon of ninja too, Sasori solo'd an entire nation, and Obito solo'd an entire platoon of Mist Anbu when he was 14.



You're not _wrong_. I was just saying it's better than Obito's mass feats. Like, you could still say Obito was duking it out with Kakashi decently while throwing, but Madara fought Hashirama


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 8, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Just reread and one translation says "I was able to get my hands on Hashirama Senju's cells" and another says "After fighting and obtaining Senju Hasirama's cells"
> 
> So he took them from Hashi's corpse, unlocked the Rinnegan right before death, and summoned the GM. No Zetsu involved there


OK so you admit Madara had Hashi cells after his Final Valley fight right? Then answer the fucking question. Madara after the Final Valley fight can use Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?


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## Artistwannabe (Mar 8, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> OK so you admit Madara had Hashi cells after his Final Valley fight right? Then answer the fucking question. Madara after the Final Valley fight can use Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?


I honestly think the reason why his Mokuton was in such a high level was because of Kabuto...


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 8, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I honestly think the reason why his Mokuton was in such a high level was because of Kabuto...


Neither of us are denying that.. But he's saying Edo Madara has all Hashirama's abilities thanks to Sharingan and not Hashirama's fucking head implanted into Madara's chest


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## Zembie (Mar 8, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Neither of us are denying that.. But he's saying Edo Madara has all Hashirama's abilities thanks to Sharingan and not Hashirama's fucking head implanted into Madara's chest


He is saying that he knows all those wood jutsus is because the sharingan copied them a long time when they fought. Jesus.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 8, 2019)

Zembie said:


> He is saying that he knows all those wood jutsus is because the sharingan copied them a long time when they fought. Jesus.


Are you asking me?


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## Artistwannabe (Mar 8, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Neither of us are denying that.. But he's saying Edo Madara has all Hashirama's abilities thanks to Sharingan and not Hashirama's fucking head implanted into Madara's chest





Zembie said:


> He is saying that he knows all those wood jutsus is because the sharingan copied them a long time when they fought. Jesus.



Yeah sorry, I should have been more careful  I will say that Madara definitely used the Sharingan to learn Hashirama's jutsus. But I still think Kabuto's augmentations gave Madara the ability to use those jutsus.


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## hbcaptain (Mar 8, 2019)

Madara is waaaay too skilled in CQC for Obito to tag him.


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## Artistwannabe (Mar 8, 2019)

hbcaptain said:


> Madara is waaaay too skilled in CQC for Obito to tag him.


CQC is irrelevant when Obito can just phase through every attack...


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## hbcaptain (Mar 8, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> CQC is irrelevant when Obito can just phase through every attack...


It's usefull defensively as Obito will never tag him, thus sending him to boxland, due to the insane difference in terms of skills and physical stats.
It's also usefull in terms of counter-attack as Obito can't react to Madara when he is solidifying himself trying to Kamui him in vein.


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## Artistwannabe (Mar 8, 2019)

hbcaptain said:


> It's usefull defensively as Obito will never tag him, thus sending him to boxland, due to the insane difference in terms of skills and physical stats.


INSANE is kind of a big word don't you think? It was Madara who trained Obito after all...


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 8, 2019)

hbcaptain said:


> It's usefull defensively as Obito will never tag him, thus sending him to boxland, due to the insane difference in terms of skills and physical stats.


When has superior taijutsu stopped someone from getting warped.. Fucking Gai was about to get warped if he didn't have KCM Naruto to save him


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## hbcaptain (Mar 8, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> INSANE is kind of a big word don't you think? It was Madara who trained Obito after all...


No matter how hard he trains and from who, Obito's potential is limited and is nowhere near Madara's.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 8, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> INSANE is kind of a big word don't you think? It was Madara who trained Obito after all...


You're new.. You'll learn Hashirama and EMS Madara get an extra power boost from the founders wanking NBD general consensus


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## hbcaptain (Mar 8, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> When has superior taijutsu stopped someone from getting warped.. Fucking Gai was about to get warped if he didn't have KCM Naruto to save him


Gai vs Obito, ie the war arc in the 59x chapters. Obito needs to touch with the palm of his hands if he wants to warp and this is never happening against Madara.


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## Artistwannabe (Mar 8, 2019)

hbcaptain said:


> No matter how hard he trains and from who, Obito's potential is limited and is nowhere near Madara's.


Uhh excuse me? I can argue that Obito with DMS stomps the SHIT out of EMS Madara but nooo, his potential is nowhere NEAR Madara


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## Zembie (Mar 8, 2019)

hbcaptain said:


> Gai vs Obito, ie the war arc in the 59x chapters. Obito needs to touch with the palm of his hands if he wants to warp and this is never happening against Madara.


Okay, nothing in here screams INSANEEEEEEEEEEE difference between CQC, but yea Madara is better than Obito.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 8, 2019)

hbcaptain said:


> Gai vs Obito, ie the war arc in the 59x chapters. Obito needs to touch with the palm of his hands if he wants to warp and this is never happening against Madara.


Once again Gai was about to get warped if he didn't have help so this "superior taijutsu negs Kamui warp" argument you're using is completely invalid.. Can you come up with another way Madara negs going to Boxland?


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 8, 2019)

Remember bois, that was base Gai



MaruUchiha said:


> OK so you admit Madara had Hashi cells after his Final Valley fight right? Then answer the fucking question. Madara after the Final Valley fight can use Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?


As soon as he can tap into Mokuton he should be able to at least attempt them. He most likely didn't know how to properly use the techs right after VOTE, but some time later he must have figured out the ins and outs. It's more about mastering Mokuton, which he got from Hashi cells


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## Zembie (Mar 8, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Remember bois, that was base Gai
> 
> 
> As soon as he can tap into Mokuton he should be able to at least attempt them. He most likely didn't know how to properly use the techs right after VOTE, but some time later he must have figured out the ins and outs. It's more about mastering Mokuton, which he got from Hashi cells


Madara got his cells when he implanted his flesh after vomiting it. He probably never used Wood Style when he was alive, because when he was reanimated he wanted to test run Hashi's abilities (I may be wrong tho). Also Guy could have easily used 1 or 3 gates and not be noticed, because there aren't major physical differences before the 4th gate.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 8, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Remember bois, that was base Gai


Completely irrelevant to the fact superior taijutsu doesn't neg Kamui warp.. Besides can EMS Madara open gates? What suggests EMS Madara is on Gai's level with tajjutsu anyway? Oh because he's one of the founders?


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 8, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> As soon as he can tap into Mokuton he should be able to at least attempt them.


So what you're saying is Madara after his Final Valley fight and getting Hashi cells can "attempt" Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc? How long would it take for him to master it after these "attempts"?


ThomasTheCat said:


> He most likely didn't know how to properly use the techs right after VOTE


So you're saying Madara before he got old and dying mastered Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?


ThomasTheCat said:


> It's more about mastering Mokuton, which he got from Hashi cells


So you're saying Madara before getting old DID have all those Wood Style abilities after mastering them?


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 8, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Completely irrelevant to the fact superior taijutsu doesn't neg Kamui warp.. Besides can EMS Madara open gates? What suggests EMS Madara is on Gai's level with tajjutsu anyway? Oh because he's one of the founders?


No Madara can't open Gates, nor did I in any way insinuate so. Gai's base Tajutusu is cool, but he isn't a speedster till Gates come up. Madara is already fast with sensing and precog


MaruUchiha said:


> So what you're saying is Madara after his Final Valley fight and getting Hashi cells can "attempt" Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc? How long would it take for him to master it after these "attempts"?
> 
> So you're saying Madara before he got old and dying mastered Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?
> 
> So you're saying Madara before getting old DID have all those Wood Style abilities after mastering them?



It is feasible, is what I'm saying. I have no idea how quickly he warmed up to Mokuton


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> It is feasible, is what I'm saying. I have no idea how quickly he warmed up to Mokuton


Let me rephrase this then since you keep dancing around the question.. Is Madara after his Final Valley fight and getting Hashirama cells *capable* of Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 9, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Let me rephrase this then since you keep dancing around the question.. Is Madara after his Final Valley fight and getting Hashirama cells *capable* of Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?



How many times will I need to say it is FEASIBLE. It DEPENDS on how quickly he got the hang of Mokuton


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 9, 2019)

This thread of all fucking things is still..Well...a THING?

Wow


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## Icegaze (Mar 9, 2019)

Madara shit diffs
He looks at obito and obito looses


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

Icegaze said:


> Madara shit diffs
> He looks at obito and obito looses


Yep pretty much how the bias NBD general consensus sees it


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> How many times will I need to say it is FEASIBLE. It DEPENDS on how quickly he got the hang of Mokuton


Cool, congrats on being responsible for one of the hardest reaching claims I've ever heard in the Battledome.. 

Edo Madara has all Hashirama's abilities thanks to Sharingan and not Hashirama's fucking head implanted on his chest, and Kabuto just decided to implant the head for no reason since Hashi boob is no different from the Hashi cells that Madara already got after the Final Valley fight

Wow


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## Icegaze (Mar 9, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Yep pretty much how the bias NBD general consensus sees it



Cuz it’s true


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

Icegaze said:


> Cuz it’s true


Wait.. That wasn't just a good joke? You actually think EMS Madara can shit diff MS Obito and even worse just by looking at him?


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> How many times will I need to say it is FEASIBLE. It DEPENDS on how quickly he got the hang of Mokuton


One more thing if you care to answer because I'm so fascinated by this "Madara had Hashi's abilities thanks to Sharingan not Hashi boob" thing.. Let's say Kabuto never implanted the Hashi head and Edo Madara was only revived with the Hashi cells he already got from after the Final Valley fight. Would he still be able to use Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?


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## Icegaze (Mar 9, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Wait.. That wasn't just a good joke? You actually think EMS Madara can shit diff MS Obito and even worse just by looking at him?



Yup 
Casually 
Anyone who has read the manga would agree 
His eyes are stupidly more powerful he can simply genjutsu rape him
Same way Itachi could genjutsu rape part 1 sasuke


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

Icegaze said:


> Yup
> Casually
> Anyone who has read the manga would agree
> His eyes are stupidly more powerful he can simply genjutsu rape him
> Same way Itachi could genjutsu rape part 1 sasuke


OK you're clearly a troll.. No way you actually believe this especially not when even 3 tomoe Sharingan negs genjutsu.. Wtf genjutsu would Madara use that would work on an MS


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## Icegaze (Mar 9, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> OK you're clearly a troll.. No way you actually believe this especially not when even 3 tomoe Sharingan negs genjutsu.. Wtf genjutsu would Madara use that would work on an MS



Says the noob with no grasp of the manga

3 tomoe negs genjutsu and yet kakashi got dropped by genjutsu


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## Ishmael (Mar 9, 2019)

People don't understand what EMS stands for.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

Icegaze said:


> Says the noob with no grasp of the manga
> 
> 3 tomoe negs genjutsu and yet kakashi got dropped by genjutsu


Since when was Part 1 Kakashi a mastered 3 tomoe Sharingan user?? New troll on the loose


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## Icegaze (Mar 9, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Since when was Part 1 Kakashi a mastered 3 tomoe Sharingan user?? New troll on the loose



Since he also has MS
 
How can you have and use MS without being a master sharingan user 
What an actual fool


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## Ishmael (Mar 9, 2019)

I don't see what's wrong with Madara beating obito in genjutsu, his eyes are superior. Plus kakashi was competing just fine in genjutsu with obito and he's nowhere as hyped up and experienced as Madara so I don't see why this is hard to believe.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

Ishmael said:


> I don't see what's wrong with Madara beating obito in genjutsu, his eyes are superior. Plus kakashi was competing just fine in genjutsu with obito and he's nowhere as hyped up and experienced as Madara so I don't see why this is hard to believe.


Sasuke negged Tsukuyomi the 3rd strongest genjutsu using a 3 tomoe Sharingan.. What genjutsu does Madara have that would work on a mastered MS user who also is skilled enough in genjutsu to control a perfect jinchuriki?


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## Ishmael (Mar 9, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> What genjutsu does Madara have that would work on a mastered MS user who also is skilled enough in genjutsu to control a perfect jinchuriki?



It's not him having a special genjutsu tech or an exclusive one to himself that would trouble obito but his superior eye.

We saw kakashi battling it out with obito in genjutsu, aware that it was genjutsu and handling himself quite well. No one controlled the illusion because they were even, that wouldn't be the case with Madara. He'd dominate the illusion and the fake world they're in because of him having the stronger eye. There's nothing that suggests otherwise, you can say "yeah obito did this and that to a perfect jin" cool that didn't stop kakashi from dealing perfectly well with obito in that area.

I'm taking a mastered EMS user over MS any day and you yourself acknowledged the different eye strength just now in your post.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

Ishmael said:


> We saw kakashi battling it out with obito in genjutsu, aware that it was genjutsu and handling himself quite well.


Really wish people would stop taking moments like this or Edo Itachi with EMS Sasuke where someone was willingly put in a genjutsu and aware of it being a genjutsu then flip it and pretend it's the exact same as being unwillingly put in a genjutsu you're unaware of


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## Ishmael (Mar 9, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Really wish people would stop taking moments like this or Edo Itachi with EMS Sasuke where someone was willingly put in a genjutsu and aware of it being a genjutsu then flip it and pretend it's the exact same as being unwillingly put in a genjutsu you're unaware of



It doesn't matter if he's aware or not MS obito wouldn't beat or trick Madara into genjutsu. Madara isn't going to be tricked or fooled at all and his eyes being>obito guarantees that he'll realize it's genjutsu and switch it around. 

Also what's backing kakashi willing going into it? Also if obito eyes are as strong as you claim even if kakashi did go in it he should've been winning or had the upper hand. Instead we were showed differently. 

Stop putting on and acknowledge what's been given go us. 

EMS >MS  so logically the superior eye will grant better visual prowess and ability.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

Ishmael said:


> Also what's backing kakashi willing going into it?


Because he knew he was in a genjutsu?


Ishmael said:


> EMS >MS  so logically the superior eye will grant better visual prowess and ability.


But that doesn't matter when Sharingan negs genjutsu.. If this was the case why wouldn't Itachi have used Contract Seal: Tsukuyomi on Obito instead of Amaterasu which is a less likely kill?


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## Ishmael (Mar 9, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Because he knew he was in a genjutsu?




Couldn't he have caught on... where's the panel showing him willingly going into it.



MaruUchiha said:


> this was the case why wouldn't Itachi have used Contract Seal: Tsukuyomi on Obito instead of Amaterasu which is a less likely kill?



1. Maybe because it isn't what the writer wanted to do.

2. Itachi knew of obitos kamui to an extent and tsukuyomi as powerful as it is, is a MS powered attack. Obito has MS, he probably wouldn't have an issue dealing with it. Why? Because it's another MS genjutsu, meaning it's on even playing field.

3. It wouldn't have done shit. Itachi was dead, so who's going to control it? Sasuke doesn't posses tsukuyomi so it'd just be dumb.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 9, 2019)

Ishmael said:


> Couldn't he have caught on... where's the panel showing him willingly going into it


There's no proof he was unwilling either.. Neither of us can be right just speculating


Ishmael said:


> 1. Maybe because it isn't what the writer wanted to do.


Weak copout



Ishmael said:


> 2. Itachi knew of obitos kamui to an extent and tsukuyomi as powerful as it is, is a MS powered attack. Obito has MS, he probably wouldn't have an issue dealing with it. Why? Because it's another MS genjutsu, meaning it's on even playing field.


So you're saying MS can't neg EMS genjutsu because it's stronger? If this was the case why can 3 tomoe Sharingan neg MS genjutsu? And not just any regular MS genjutsu that you're claiming EMS Madara would use this was Itachi's unique MS genjutsu hyped to be the 3rd strongest in the series..


Ishmael said:


> 3. It wouldn't have done shit. Itachi was dead, so who's going to control it? Sasuke doesn't posses tsukuyomi so it'd just be dumb.


Itachi would of course.. I don't see why not when we've seen the dead interact with the living on panel. Minato even redid Naruto's seal while dead


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## Ishmael (Mar 10, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> There's no proof he was unwilling either.. Neither of us can be right just speculating



Coolio. Now answer me this if obito eye is as strong as you believe it to be why didn't he gain control of that genjutsu exchange? 



MaruUchiha said:


> Weak copout



Not a cop out. A cop out is me saying that as a whole in response to what you were asking, I gave you multiples.

I don't do cop outs. I'll concede when I know I'm beat and wrong, I've done it before but this isn't the case so nah. No cop out. That's legit reasoning, the author writes these characters and does things to build on certain parts of the character or the story. Tsukuyomi had no significance which is why kishi probably led to using ama.



MaruUchiha said:


> So you're saying MS can't neg EMS genjutsu because it's stronger?



Don't keep bringing up the same stuff and makimg me repeat myself, I've been saying this in this thread from the jump. 



MaruUchiha said:


> If this was the case why can 3 tomoe Sharingan neg MS genjutsu?



You talking about the sasuke and itachi thing? Itachi didn't want to kill sasuke one, he wanted to push him which implies he wouldn't use the full power of tsukuyomi. Also sasuke is of uchiha blood and itachi literally that those of his descent are the only ones capable of breaking it.



MaruUchiha said:


> Itachi would of course.. I don't see why not when we've seen the dead interact with the living on panel. Minato even redid Naruto's seal while dead



Reach for the stars.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 10, 2019)

Ishmael said:


> if obito eye is as strong as you believe it to be why didn't he gain control of that genjutsu exchange?


Who's to say he didn't? Obito completely controlled that whole exchange as stated by himself


Ishmael said:


> You talking about the sasuke and itachi thing? Itachi didn't want to kill sasuke one, he wanted to push him which implies he wouldn't use the full power of tsukuyomi.


I knew you would blow the dust off the ol' trusty "Itachi wasn't serious" scapegoat as if Itachi didn't use Tsukuyomi on Sasuke as a kid twice..


Ishmael said:


> Also sasuke is of uchiha blood and itachi literally that those of his descent are the only ones capable of breaking it


I wonder what Itachi meant by that.. An actual mastered 3 tomoe Sharingan user not a fake like Kakashi maybe?


Ishmael said:


> Reach for the stars.


Right, even tho Amaterasu worked and we've seen the dead interact with the living countless times.. Luffy reach


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## Ishmael (Mar 10, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Who's to say he didn't? Obito completely controlled that whole exchange as stated by himself
> 
> I knew you would blow the dust off the ol' trusty "Itachi wasn't serious" scapegoat as if Itachi didn't use Tsukuyomi on Sasuke as a kid twice..
> 
> ...



I'll respond when I wake up bro.


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## Ishmael (Mar 10, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Who's to say he didn't? Obito completely controlled that whole exchange as stated by himself



Drop the scan maru. 

Kakashi literally shows shows us he's on even ground on this genjutsu battle. He understands the fake illusions and even has control enough to not be fooled or manipulated by it. That's even playing ground, no one is the superior there.

They're on  playing ground, there's clearly no one who had the .



MaruUchiha said:


> I knew you would blow the dust off the ol' trusty "Itachi wasn't serious" scapegoat as if Itachi didn't use Tsukuyomi on Sasuke as a kid twice..



And it worked. He felt the effects of it when he was younger, we know itachi can control the strength of the genjutsu. So how is that an scapegoat? Lmao if you consider me giving you manga facts as a scapegoat then oh well. We read to different mangas it seems. We know he never intended to kill sasuke but make him stronger and build his hatred. So I mean.... sorry if the manga works against you.



MaruUchiha said:


> I wonder what Itachi meant by that.. An actual mastered 3 tomoe Sharingan user not a fake like Kakashi maybe?



Don't even get what you're trying to say here. Kakashi did nothing but get fucked by the tsukuyomi. He's not of uchiha descent or itachis blood so it stands. You know what he meant because it's stated in that panel provided.


MaruUchiha said:


> Right, even tho Amaterasu worked and we've seen the dead interact with the living countless times.. Luffy reach



If you feel itachi could pull off tsukuyomi which requires him to be there and to control the genjutsu then so be it. We'll have to agree to disagree.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 10, 2019)

I'm pretty done here but one more thing


Ishmael said:


> Drop the scan maru.
> 
> Kakashi literally shows shows us he's on even ground on this genjutsu battle. He understands the fake illusions and even has control enough to not be fooled or manipulated by it. That's even playing ground, no one is the superior there.
> 
> They're on  playing ground, there's clearly no one who had the


 
Once again Obito controlled that entire fight from jump.. It's the only reason he even brought Kakashi to Boxland


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## Ishmael (Mar 10, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Once again Obito controlled that entire fight from jump.. It's the only reason he even brought Kakashi to Boxland



The fight that took place out of the genjutsu, stop it maru, it's not that serious.


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 10, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Cool, congrats on being responsible for one of the hardest reaching claims I've ever heard in the Battledome..
> 
> Edo Madara has all Hashirama's abilities thanks to Sharingan and not Hashirama's fucking head implanted on his chest, and Kabuto just decided to implant the head for no reason since Hashi boob is no different from the Hashi cells that Madara already got after the Final Valley fight
> 
> Wow


Congrats on not comprehending that saying "reaching!!1!1!!!" isn't an argument. Also, congrats on asking me shit I've already gone over. Hashi boob gives SM, therefore it is different. You don't see me claiming that it's the same thing.


MaruUchiha said:


> One more thing if you care to answer because I'm so fascinated by this "Madara had Hashi's abilities thanks to Sharingan not Hashi boob" thing.. Let's say Kabuto never implanted the Hashi head and Edo Madara was only revived with the Hashi cells he already got from after the Final Valley fight. Would he still be able to use Flower World, Wood Dragon, Wood Clones, etc?



More questions that I've already stated my case on?
_*Yes*_, he simply would not be capable of SM. Even if you disagree, you're making yourself look like an idiot by asking me to restate things and then proceed to repeat arguments that I've given rebuttals to. If you have nothing _new_ to say, then don't bother posting in the thread. Neither of us is going to concede because we both believe we are on the correct side wholeheartedly. Just stop if you plan on repeating your whole argument


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 11, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> _*Yes*_


Cool, new question. Why would Kabuto implant the Hashi head when
1. There's no reason to give Madara Sage Mode
2. There would be no way for Edo Madara to get Hashirama's Sage Mode
3. Kabuto had no idea Hashirama would come back as an Edo to even get Sage Mode from?

Just stop being stubborn and just admit Hashi head gives Edo Madara all Hashirama's abilities, you're jumping thru hoops right now


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 11, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> 1. There's no reason to give Madara Sage Mode


Kabuto thought he could keep Madara under control, no matter what. So obviously he would want Madara to be OP as fuck. Given that he very nearly stalemated Hashirama "God of Shinobi" Senju, he would be busted with SM. There's also a possibility that Kabuto didn't even know Madara was already Hashi cell'd up, so he shoved Hashi cells on him and was like "SM too, because fuck it", if you get what I mean


MaruUchiha said:


> 2. There would be no way for Edo Madara to get Hashirama's Sage Mode



Except for how it happened in canon? Umm? Do you want to explain what you mean?


MaruUchiha said:


> 3. Kabuto had no idea Hashirama would come back as an Edo to even get Sage Mode from?


Again, what? Make sense, please


MaruUchiha said:


> Just stop being stubborn and just admit Hashi head gives Edo Madara all Hashirama's abilities, you're jumping thru hoops right now


Again, calling me stubborn and saying "HOOPS" does not constitute a valid argument


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 11, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> There's also a possibility that Kabuto didn't even know Madara was already Hashi cell'd up


I knew you'd reach for that one.. Wrong. Kabuto not only knew Madara survived his Final Valley fight but also knew he got Hashi cells from it. So far your best excuse is "lel Kabuto was trying to make him more OP by adding Sage Mode even tho Kabuto had no idea Edo Hashirama would return for Madara to even get Sage Mode from"
Besides, Edo Madara would've still had Rinnegan and according to you all Hashirama's abilities so what more power would he need at that point for Kabuto to wanna add Sage Mode too? You're just reaching really hard right now and shitting out some of the most stubborn and far-fetched claims I've ever heard in the Battledome just because you don't wanna be wrong about Hashi boob that bad


ThomasTheCat said:


> Except for how it happened in canon? Umm? Do you want to explain what you mean?
> 
> Again, what? Make sense, please


Are you playing dumb? These are both pretty simple.. Why the fuck would Kabuto give Edo Madara Hashi boob because "lel Sage Mode OP" when as far as Kabuto knew there was no way for Edo Madara to get Hashirama's Sage Mode? Or are you gonna reach some more and claim Kabuto knew Edo Hashirama was gonna come for Edo Madara to even get Sage Mode from? Wouldn't be too crazy of a claim coming from you at this point honestly given how hard you're reaching with your claims already


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## dergeist (Mar 11, 2019)

Madara knew his abilities, but still considered him lesser than Sasuke, so...


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 11, 2019)

dergeist said:


> Madara knew his abilities, but still considered him lesser than Sasuke, so...


You mean fucking Rinnegan Sasuke?


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## dergeist (Mar 11, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> You mean fucking Rinnegan Sasuke?


Nah when he was thinking of using Sasuke, he wouldn't have had Rinnegan. The choku tomoe would've been enough at that time.


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 11, 2019)

dergeist said:


> Nah when he was thinking of using Sasuke, he wouldn't have had Rinnegan. The choku tomoe would've been enough at that time.


He only wanted Sasuke's eyes.. He didn't think of replacing Obito with Sasuke until Sasuke got the Rinnegan


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 11, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> I knew you'd reach for that one.. Wrong. Kabuto not only knew Madara survived his Final Valley fight but also knew he got Hashi cells from it. So far your best excuse is "lel Kabuto was trying to make him more OP by adding Sage Mode even tho Kabuto had no idea Edo Hashirama would return for Madara to even get Sage Mode from"
> Besides, Edo Madara would've still had Rinnegan and according to you all Hashirama's abilities so what more power would he need at that point for Kabuto to wanna add Sage Mode too? You're just reaching really hard right now and shitting out some of the most stubborn and far-fetched claims I've ever heard in the Battledome just because you don't wanna be wrong about Hashi boob that bad
> 
> Are you playing dumb? These are both pretty simple.. Why the fuck would Kabuto give Edo Madara Hashi boob because "lel Sage Mode OP" when as far as Kabuto knew there was no way for Edo Madara to get Hashirama's Sage Mode? Or are you gonna reach some more and claim Kabuto knew Edo Hashirama was gonna come for Edo Madara to even get Sage Mode from? Wouldn't be too crazy of a claim coming from you at this point honestly given how hard you're reaching with your claims already


You're complety right about the SM thing, I forgot he jacked that off of Hashirama immediately.

So basically, new theory: Kabuto planted it to experiment. It does not make sense for the face to be there for Hashi's Jutsu, as it makes actual sense that Madara, being able to use Mokuton and possessing a Sharingan to replicate Hasirama's abilities, would be able to do everything anyways. Kabuto may have been wanting to test if like SM would develop, but since we know that Hashiboob has no Chakra, it serves the same purpose as the cells. It just does not make sense for Jutsu to transfer


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## MaruUchiha (Mar 11, 2019)

ThomasTheCat said:


> You're complety right about the SM thing, I forgot he jacked that off of Hashirama immediately.


Well atleast you concede on this point.. I respect that


ThomasTheCat said:


> So basically, new theory: Kabuto planted it to experiment. It does not make sense for the face to be there for Hashi's Jutsu, as it makes actual sense that Madara, being able to use Mokuton and possessing a Sharingan to replicate Hasirama's abilities, would be able to do everything anyways. Kabuto may have been wanting to test if like SM would develop, but since we know that Hashiboob has no Chakra, it serves the same purpose as the cells. It just does not make sense for Jutsu to transfer


I get where you're coming from, but when was the last time Kishi incorporated the copy ability into Sharingan anyway? It just sounds like a reach in my opinion, but whatever at this point we're just gonna have to agree to disagree


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## ThomasTheCat (Mar 11, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Well atleast you concede on this point.. I respect that
> 
> I get where you're coming from, but when was the last time Kishi incorporated the copy ability into Sharingan anyway? It just sounds like a reach in my opinion, but whatever at this point we're just gonna have to agree to disagree


To be fair, Kishi has no idea what his characters can even do half of the time. You can call it a reach, understandably, but there is a logical reason for it.

Regardless, let's not keep this thread alive like Boruto is trying to keep Naruto alive


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