# Israeli family stabbed to death by Palestinians, includes month old baby



## Megaharrison (Mar 12, 2011)

> Defense Minister Ehud Barak vowed Saturday that Israel would use every means possible to track down those behind the fatal stabbing of a family of five in the West Bank settlement of Itamar on Friday night.
> 
> "The IDF and security services will act quickly and with all the tools at their disposal in order to capture those responsible for the despicable murder, " Barak said.
> 
> ...





First to defend this wins a prize.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 12, 2011)

That baby would've used Palestinians as human shields and harvested their organs afterwards if given the opportunity.


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## Jin-E (Mar 12, 2011)

A horrendous attack, but i dont like the fact that Lieberman is trying to score political points with this.


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## gonen (Mar 12, 2011)

"Rafah residents hand out candy following murder of parents, three children in West Bank settlement of Itamar."


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Mar 12, 2011)

Palestinians are sick. I hate them all.


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## gonen (Mar 12, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> A horrendous attack, but i dont like the fact that Lieberman is trying to score political points with this.



Three children including a baby are being murdered in cold blood, and from all of that you only thing you don't like is Liberman trying to score political points with this!?


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## Jin-E (Mar 12, 2011)

gonen said:


> Three children including a baby are being murdered in cold blood, and from all of that you only thing you don't like is Liberman trying to score political points with this!?



You missed the " A horrendous attack" part?


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## Megaharrison (Mar 12, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> A horrendous attack, but i dont like the fact that Lieberman is trying to score political points with this.



Meh, Lieberman is a douche but his points at the very least are fairly legitimate this time around. Fatah has an issue with the glorification of sadistic murders liket his, just look at how they honor past suicide bombers who killed civilians. The UN also is likely to not condemn this, they never even condemned the 7,000 rocket attacks on Israeli civilians before Cast Lead. He's just trying to prove a point for the outside world to see.


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## Xyloxi (Mar 12, 2011)

This is an example for what every proud Arab should do, rise up and drive the loathsome Jews into the sea!


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## gonen (Mar 12, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> You missed the " A horrendous attack" part?



I doubt that if it was the opposite all what you say would be "A horrendous attack", but probably something more like "omg israel is killing children is cold blood on purpose, israel must be punished and destroyed."


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## Megaharrison (Mar 12, 2011)

It should be also be noted that the attackers got through along the Hawaa route, an area which had a checkpoint the IDF dismantled in 2008 as a gesture. Needless to say the checkpoint has already been put back up. Wonder if that candy still tastes as sweet.


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## Jin-E (Mar 12, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Meh, Lieberman is a douche but his points at the very least are fairly legitimate this time around. Fatah has an issue with the glorification of sadistic murders liket his, just look at how they honor past suicide bombers who killed civilians. The UN also is likely to not condemn this, they never even condemned the 7,000 rocket attacks on Israeli civilians before Cast Lead. He's just trying to prove a point for the outside world to see.



I agree with the UN part, i meant his claim that the PA hadn't condemned the murders. Though i should have pointed it out.

Part of the criticism in my post has background in my distaste of Palestinians, Lebanese, Iraqi's and Afghans flaunting their civilian casualties as fodder for political purposes. While Israel has the moral right to be outraged because of this crime and punish the people involved, Lieberman pretty much tries to insinuate that the PA secretly supported this or cheerleaded it, which would make no rational sense. 

I





			
				gonen said:
			
		

> doubt that if it was the opposite all what you say would be "A horrendous attack", but probably something more like "omg israel is killing children is cold blood on purpose, israel must be punished and destroyed."



You clearly dont have a clue about my postal history if you believe that.


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## Mael (Mar 12, 2011)

Well this is another shitshow. 

Settlers, rogue Palis, and accusations, oh my!


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Mar 12, 2011)

That's quite horrible I hope they catch the murder(s) and punish him/her.



gonen said:


> "Rafah residents hand out candy following murder of parents, three children in West Bank settlement of Itamar."


Any other sources?


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## makeoutparadise (Mar 12, 2011)

And so the tea cup ride that is the cycle of hatred  goes round and round


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## Miss Fortune (Mar 12, 2011)

Oh how I love race wars...

Fucking retarded.


Poor baby!


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## WizzzeR (Mar 12, 2011)

disgusting, i dont support settlements, but the behaviour of some Palestinians always make me wonder, with or without the settlements will they ever stop this senseless old fashioned Arab vengence. 
children, infants... it doesnt matter who you are and where you come from, and this guy killed the kids from point blank with a knife with 100% intention of one thing- murder. 

the main why we continue our occupation of the West Bank and the siege of Gaza- security. i know it sounds like an overbeating cliche we try to shove peoples ears all the time- but its true.  we wish the world was less into Kumbaya and more into realising that the Palestinain population has too many armed criminals who will stop at nothing just so that they could get their hands with Jewish blood..are they inheritly evil? no! its just this cycle of violence and people twisted by war and conflict... the problem in the Palestinain "authorities" that those groups are being empowered and reveared. 

settlers are potentially jus as dangerous, and now the Israeli police is going to get into a shitstorm...

man im lucky to be stuck in this "bubble" of Tel-Aviv, i just hope the israeli "reality" wont burst it and kill whatever is left if Israeli sanity.

so many people want peace, but the voice of those who come against it is louder.


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## sadated_peon (Mar 12, 2011)

I have very little sympathy for orthodox jewish settlers living in the west bank. 

I have EVEN LESS sympathy when this comes on the heals of the settlers attacks in the same area. 


In which the firebombed people houses with children inside. 

So yea, I don't see why I should give a damn about people who move to a country that isn't theirs because they believe it is a religious mandate to take land from the people who live there, then attack the civilian population around them. 

My sympathy for them is at an all time low.


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## hellonoam (Mar 12, 2011)

These arabs should have their families killed


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## Glued (Mar 12, 2011)

my condolences.


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## Superstars (Mar 12, 2011)

This world is going to Hell in a hand basket.


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## Ceria (Mar 12, 2011)

Handing out candy like it's halloween? I'm in favor of carpet bombing that fucking scum in Rafah


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## Inuhanyou (Mar 12, 2011)

My condolences to whomever was left living after this attack, and i hope that the attacker gets swift punishment, as i would say if it was an Israeli attack on a Palestinian.

I hardly feel that something like this should be used to paint an entire nation of people, your feud between you is your own


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## WT (Mar 12, 2011)

hellonoam said:


> These arabs should have their families killed



Families who have done nothing wrong? Are you saying that justice will only be attained if more innocent people are punished instead of the actual perpetrator of the crime? Secondly, this attack was probably done in response to the murderer having their own family killed. 

Also, I think the OP is more concerned about showing the world that Palestinians are nasty and evil instead of genuinely feeling sympathy for the victims of this horrid crime.

Lastly, hope the person is caught and brought to justice. Can't begin to imagine what the 12 year old will be going through.


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## Esponer (Mar 12, 2011)

My heart goes out to everyone to the Itamar family and everyone who cared for them. They did not deserve being part of the occupation's ongoing death toll – nobody does.

The political perspective on what happened in Itamar this Friday is frightening, however, and I'm not going to let that pass. I think Megaharrison probably knows this – he's posting this to push the political perspective, and challenging anyone to say it. Okay then.

The media makes it easy to forget just how many humans there are. There are 3.8 million Palestinians in Palestine, and a further 1.5 million in what is now called Israel. If 1% of Palestinians in the strapped bombs to themselves, or crept into Israeli villages illegally constructed in the West Bank to do murder,

if 1% of Palestinians in _Nablus_ alone did this, a nearby Palestinian city, it would be 1200 Palestinian murderers. We hear a story, in this case, about one. There's more than one Palestinian like that. There's more than one Israeli. There's more than one American. When you're talking about millions of people, there is every kind of son-of-a-bitch in those millions. But they don't define them.

I have a friend living in Bethlehem in the West Bank. I sought her out to speak to her about this. Every Palestinian she's spoken to there is shocked and upset. They truly _don't _condone these murders: they're as horrified by them as you and I are.

They're also afraid. This is where the topic becomes political, and Megaharrison, you've asked for this. They're afraid of collective retribution against Palestinian people for the actions of one murderer. Imagine if Raoul Moat's actions had led to the punishment of everyone living in Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Had led to people on the Internet talking about how Moat's family should be killed, about how this was typical of the British.

The IDF have declared the area around Nablus a closed military zone. In the past, they've used house demolition as a punishment for this, without trial and against an entire people. It wouldn't take much of a cynic to suggest that this is about clearing land for future settlements. There is a real fear, certainly in Bethelem whose Palestinians I've been able to hear from, that this will happen in the Nablus area. Closing the area off like this is the first step.

If it does, Palestinians will be forced out of their homes at gunpoint and their homes will be destroyed. They will be forced off their land – even if it's Area A (which Nablus is), where the Oslo Accords state that Israeli should maintain no military presence (although they do). Hopefully this won't happen. There's certainly no guarantee that it will, although it has in the past.

At the moment, Bedouins in Al-Araqib (who are Israeli citizens and obliged to pay taxes, but have never received electricity or running water and have had their wheat crops destroyed by ILA fumigation) are living in tents in their graveyard. This is because Israel has destroyed their homes – again and again, every time they try to rebuild them. The ninth demolition was on January the 16th. The justification for this is muddy. They were displaced in 1948, their homes destroyed, but Israel doesn't recognise their village or their right to keep livestock without a permit. (A permit to live?) The ILA also wish to plant a forest there, I've been told.

I don't know about the claims of celebrations in Rafah. The truth is, it could be true. It's dangerous to listen only to Ynet, as they want you to think of the Palestinian people as somehow inherently barbaric – as something other than _just human beings_, which we all are. However, Rafah is in Gaza. No people, Palestinian or otherwise, can en masse, near 100% of them, manage not to be sons-of-bitches in a situation like that. This is a place where 95% of the water is unfit to drink and, since the bombing of the desalination plant during Cast Lead, Israel hasn't allowed it to be repaired. There are definitely Palestinians there with hate in their heart, though not all of them.

I hate that this is political, most of all. I hate that this is branding a people, that this is hurting two entire peoples – it's too much. It wasn't an invasion, it wasn't a war, it's two murderers, two nations horrified and one of those nations petrified that the retribution will also hit them or people they care about.

Although as much as it was two sick men with too much hate and not enough compassion, it's also the most Israeli civilians killed in one 'event' in six years. Five are dead. By contrast, between 2005 and 2007, Hamas killed four Israeli civilians with their bombardment of 2,700 Qassam rockets – while Israel killed 59 with artillery. That was what led to Cast Lead, the 'Gaza War', where perhaps a thousand Palestinian civilians died, three Israeli civilians and over 50,000 were displaced. What I mean to say here is that this is a could be cast as the heaviest blow 'from Palestine' and 'to Israel' in the last six years. Meaning this is bad.

I hate that this is political, but it _is_. And that's why the people I've heard from in Bethlehem are frightened for Palestinians in the Nablus area. Israel will be under pressure to do something. Itamar and the surrounding area is a frightening place to live for everyone. In May 2002, three were killed by a Palestinian gunman. A similar incident happened in June 2002, and now again this Friday. It's a small village: everyone who lives there  knows the families. Even in that small area the cycle of violence can be seen, as the settlers in Itamar have been brutalising and killing local Palestinians for many years as well. The region is plagued by Palestinian murderers, Israeli mobs of settlers firebombing houses and the likes of rabbis like Yitzhak Shapira of nearby Yitzhar, who advocates killing all male Palestinians above 13 and killing babies if they might grow up to harm Israel. I'd love to say he was an ostracised madman: but like I said, he's an acting rabbi and head of the Dorshei Yihudcha yeshiva. Thankfully the Israeli police are not exactly 'on his side', having arrested him before, but it gives you an idea of the mentality of some settlers in that region.

It's all fucked up. I hope the two Palestinians behind these murders are caught and see a fair but decisive trial. But I also hope that this doesn't rain punishment on other Palestinians in the Nablus area. Like I said, it might not – time will tell.


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## Sarry (Mar 12, 2011)

Since when was it confirmed that Palestinians did it?


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## Esponer (Mar 12, 2011)

I read that it was two murderers. I could be wrong. I think that might've been an IDF report rather than Haaretz, Ynet, etc., but I'm not sure I remember perfectly.

It probably was done by Palestinians, Sarry. It's just much more likely to be driven by Israel–Palestine hate than by blind psychopathy or a personal grudge. In any society it's probably less than one in a million who will kill for the 'Raoul Moat' type of reason. Probably less than one in a hundred thousand who can be driven to it by a personal grudge, by jealousy, etc. More still, though still few, would kill in situation like this.

If there's no evidence, then of course it's wrong to punish entire villages – but that's wrong anyway.

I don't know if there's evidence or not. I know that seventeen Palestinians have been arrested so far. (EDIT: I should say, I've _heard_.)


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## Sarry (Mar 12, 2011)

Esponer said:


> I read that it was two murderers. I could be wrong. I think that might've been an IDF report rather than Haaretz, Ynet, etc., but I'm not sure I remember perfectly.
> 
> *It probably was done by Palestinians, Sarry*. It's just much more likely to be driven by Israel–Palestine hate than by blind psychopathy or a personal grudge. In any society it's probably less than one in a million who will kill for the 'Raoul Moat' type of reason. Probably less than one in a hundred thousand who can be driven to it by a personal grudge, by jealousy, etc. More still, though still few, would kill in situation like this.
> 
> ...



Probably. But there is no confirmation for that.
For now, it's only one or two murders who did it. It could be some mentally-challenged person. 

Overall, it is weird considering that the PA significantly stopped[or limited] any armed violence, and instead worked towards building the infrastructure in the West Bank. And they have strengthened their security after US training


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## -Dargor- (Mar 12, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> He's just trying to prove a point for the outside world to see.


That israel is filled with douches? We already knew that.

Also, here's how I read this thread :



Megaharrison said:


> Israeli family stabbed to death by Palestinians





Sarry said:


> Since when was it confirmed that Palestinians did it?





			
				article said:
			
		

> there were two other children in the house at the time of the attack, aged 4 and 2, who were not injured in the attack





			
				article said:
			
		

> The family's 12-year-old daughter, who was at a youth group activity, returned to her home at approximately midnight and her calls for the door to be opened for her went unanswered.





			
				article said:
			
		

> a suspected terrorist



So basically, just because people (not even an actual whole family) get murdered on israel territory (can't even say that without laughing) it's automatically evil palestinians that are responsible.

How about that joke of a police department starts doing actual investigations or are they too busy throwing rocks at palestinian kids all day long?

Then again, I should have known better than to read a megaharrison thread


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## Megaharrison (Mar 12, 2011)

At the deniers, . Before you go "lol jpost", I can cite tons of anti-government and self-criticizing articles from them and the greater Israeli media and I would like evidence that they fabricate stories.

And Esponer, initially I was going to post a giant vicious rant over some things that are errors in fact and conclusions but I suppose your heart is in the right place here, so good work I guess. My main beef is with the irrational voices that dominate the Israel bashers on this forum, plus they're easy to exploit for PR points. In any regard if you still want it I can still give it to you 

All I can say is that we'll find them, even if takes years. We've gotten people like this for acts that have happened some 10 years previous, it isn't unprecedented or illogical for me to say this.


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## Sarry (Mar 12, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> A*t the deniers, .* Before you go "lol jpost", I can cite tons of anti-government and self-criticizing articles from them and the greater Israeli media and I would like evidence that they fabricate stories.
> 
> And Esponer, initially I was going to post a giant vicious rant over some things that are errors in fact and conclusions but I suppose your heart is in the right place here, so good work I guess. My main beef is with the irrational voices that dominate the Israel bashers on this forum, plus they're easy to exploit for PR points. In any regard if you still want it I can still give it to you
> 
> All I can say is that we'll find them, even if takes years. We've gotten people like this for acts that have happened some 10 years previous, it isn't unprecedented or illogical for me to say this.



I can't see that report anywhere else.
Do you have other sources?


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## Psycho (Mar 12, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> It should be also be noted that the attackers got through along the Hawaa route, an area which had a checkpoint the IDF dismantled in 2008 as a gesture. Needless to say the *checkpoint has already been put back up*. Wonder if that candy still tastes as sweet.



is that a knee-jerk?

in other news: muslim extremists are evil and water is wet


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## Soups (Mar 12, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> At the deniers, . Before you go "lol jpost", I can cite tons of anti-government and self-criticizing articles from them and the greater Israeli media and I would like evidence that they fabricate stories.
> 
> And Esponer, initially I was going to post a giant vicious rant over some things that are errors in fact and conclusions but I suppose your heart is in the right place here, so good work I guess. My main beef is with the irrational voices that dominate the Israel bashers on this forum, plus they're easy to exploit for PR points. In any regard if you still want it I can still give it to you
> 
> All I can say is that we'll find them, even if takes years. We've gotten people like this for acts that have happened some 10 years previous, it isn't unprecedented or illogical for me to say this.



You need to distinguish between "Israel bashers" and people who would complain, regardless of what people were killed.  Really, most people are not Israel "bashers" but people who find murder revolting (usually regardless of whether it's deserved or not).

Everybody sends condolences prior to shit storm. 

Usually people send condolences as part of their argument during the shit storm... Hmmm...


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## iander (Mar 13, 2011)

Murder like this just makes things worse for everyone.  I do not support the settlements, the occupation, nor many of the policies of the Israeli and Palestinian governments but there is no justification for murder like this.  Now, more innocent Palestinians will be harmed in retaliation and the circle continues.

I would respond to Lieberman's comments but its not worth the effort.  Hes a sad joke and the rest of the world knows it.


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## Inuhanyou (Mar 13, 2011)

I think Libermann doesn't care, he's got his money contracts after all


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## Momentum (Mar 13, 2011)

They should really stop those extremist, to stop all those religious people thinking of devils or end of days.


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## G (Mar 13, 2011)

Mexican God said:


> Palestinians are sick. I hate them all.



This.
Isn't stuff like this happening almost every day in there?


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## Esponer (Mar 13, 2011)

Shintenshin said:


> This.
> Isn't stuff like this happening almost every day in there?


There are 5.3 million Palestinians in Palestine and Israel. There is a reason that what happened in Itamar is on the front page of Ynet, Haaretz and even BBC News. It is a particularly terrible incident. Almost every day is far off, even with the many millions of people under the occupation. Itamar itself has seen three such happenings in nine years, and this is the worst Israeli killing anywhere in Palestine in the last six years.

I don't mean to excuse what happened in any way, but this isn't "almost every day" and there is certainly no justification for painting millions of people by the actions of a few.

Palestinians are just human beings, like you and I. They are not 'sick' and they as a people don't deserve your hate.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 13, 2011)

Esponer said:


> There are 5.3 million Palestinians in Palestine and Israel. There is a reason that what happened in Itamar is on the front page of Ynet, Haaretz and even BBC News. It is a particularly terrible incident. Almost every day is far off, even with the many millions of people under the occupation. Itamar itself has seen three such happenings in nine years, and this is the worst Israeli killing anywhere in Palestine in the last six years.



It's one of the worst, but I can remember the Palestinian  as a worse incident that has happened within 6 years.

These kind of attacks, or at least attempts at them, were indeed "everyday" 2000-2005, just looking at March 2002 is evidence enough of that. We had to beat Fatah and the rest down to ensure that it wouldn't be and that these kinds of incidents are now such a rarity. That's the saddest part. This attack probably only happened because we took down the Hawaa checkpoint last year.



> I don't mean to excuse what happened in any way, but this isn't "almost every day" and there is certainly no justification for painting millions of people by the actions of a few.
> 
> Palestinians are just human beings, like you and I. They are not 'sick' and they as a people don't deserve your hate.



There's a societal cult of death/suicide/murder that's disturbing and leads to attacks like this. I primarily blame the PA and Hamas for the kind of education and propaganda they oversee, which glorifies suicide attacks, killing civilians, and so on. It should be noted that every single major Palestinian political group has engaged in deliberate sick murders of civilians like these, it's hardly isolated to a few crazed individuals. When the elected majority political party actually praised this murder this becomes abundantly clear. Am I saying all Palestinians are evil sick barbarians? No. However, they do have a disturbingly large cult of death in their society, brought about by figures like Arafat and Yassin, and this is reflected in the fact that every one of their political representatives has engaged in precisely this kind of savage act in the recent past.

And I wouldn't look to Fatah's knee-jerk condemnation of this very much, that is being done only out of self-preservation and Fatah has done worse then this under this same gang back in the Arafat days. Fatah  and then is apparently "shocked" when a similar attack takes place. And I don't even need to go into Hamas, my point is proven just mentioning them. The Palestinian political groups incitement and glorification of murder is the problem here.


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## hyakku (Mar 13, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> I have very little sympathy for orthodox jewish settlers living in the west bank.
> 
> I have EVEN LESS sympathy when this comes on the heals of the settlers attacks in the same area.
> 
> ...




So yea, what you are saying then is if native Americans had access to nukes / chemical weapons / any type of weapon that could threaten the population and used them against all of America in an attempt to wipe us all out and retake their land, they would be totally justified?

Jesus, some people need to take the sand out of their vagina and realize that there are winners and losers in conflict, that's how it is, Palestine chose the loosing side. They (their leadership) only make it worse for themselves by targeting civilians as an attempt to degrade Israeli morale, and a fat lot of good thats done them.

The world doesn't work on who's the most sympathetic, and the fact of the matter is if palestinians want to continue attacking Israelis like this of course security is just going to get tighter for them, israel runs the region plain and simple. 

It's sad that shit like this happens in some misguided attempt at religious war, some people are really sore losers.


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## ximkoyra (Mar 13, 2011)

Esponer said:


> It wouldn't take much of a cynic to suggest that this is about clearing land for future settlements. There is a real fear, certainly in Bethelem whose Palestinians I've been able to hear from, that this will happen in the Nablus area. Closing the area off like this is the first step.



You know, I thought this was just another thing in the continual campaign to dehumanize Palestinians, but I can't believe how spot on you were:


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## sadated_peon (Mar 13, 2011)

hyakku said:
			
		

> So yea, what you are saying then is if native Americans had access to nukes / chemical weapons / any type of weapon that could threaten the population and used them against all of America in an attempt to wipe us all out and retake their land, they would be totally justified?


No, I wouldn’t, and I don’t see the connection between this any of my statements. 

I would say though that if Native Americans living on a reservation had a group of Christian settle in their reservation declare the place they settled as their own and start firebombing the Native Americans nearby them, I would have very little sympathy for the christians if they were attack by the same Native Americans that they had previously petro bombed. 

For the same reason I have little sympathy for the Palestinians and their willingness to use terrorism and the killing of innocent civilians, I have very little sympathy for the religious settlers who do the same.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 13, 2011)

As a Jew and a self-proclaimed Zionist, I find this attack appalling. More so that it doesn't do anyone good. Settlers will use this excuse to further their advancement into Palestinian territory continuing the cycle. I don't see why Israel find ti necessary to continue to create more homes into Palestinian territory. They honestly would rather wipe out all teh Palestinians than make peace. Absolutley shameful. 

On the other hand terrorist organizations like Hamas that pretend to be fighting for Palestinians don't do any good either.


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## Shinigami Perv (Mar 13, 2011)

Hopefully someone finds the murderers. I can't understand how a person can kill an infant, someone has to be seriously depraved to actually do that.


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## Perseverance (Mar 13, 2011)

Not even 1% even with what Isreali's done to Palastinians.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 13, 2011)

Perseverance said:


> Not even 1% even with what Isreali's done to Palastinians.



When has Israel broken into somebody home and stabbed a month old baby?

And I'll save you the energy of making the response post as it's obvious what you'll say: DERP BUT THEY KILLED MORE PEOPLE. So I've gone into the future and already answered your post: when has Israel attempted to deliberately kill a month old child? If you can't answer this, then you can not compare the two.


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## Momoka (Mar 13, 2011)

Poor kids...who will take care of them now? They're orphans, and they'll hold very strong hatred against Palestinians if they wish.


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## KidTony (Mar 13, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> I have very little sympathy for orthodox jewish settlers living in the west bank.
> 
> I have EVEN LESS sympathy when this comes on the heals of the settlers attacks in the same area.
> 
> ...



Is your sympathy for the 1 month old baby at an all time low?


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 13, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> When has Israel broken into somebody home and stabbed a month old baby?
> 
> And I'll save you the energy of making the response post as it's obvious what you'll say: DERP BUT THEY KILLED MORE PEOPLE. So I've gone into the future and already answered your post: when has Israel attempted to deliberately kill a month old child? If you can't answer this, then you can not compare the two.



They have deliberately pushed people out of their homes despite it being against United Nation law. They have used White Phosporus on Palestinians and bombed there homes. Both sides have been terrible at different times.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 13, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> When has Israel broken into somebody home and stabbed a month old baby?
> 
> And I'll save you the energy of making the response post as it's obvious what you'll say: DERP BUT THEY KILLED MORE PEOPLE. So I've gone into the future and already answered your post: when has Israel attempted to deliberately kill a month old child? If you can't answer this, then you can not compare the two.



Whether or not the IDF solider who shot you meant well you're still just as dead. And it could just as easily be turned around. You're arguing intent matters more than numbers. If your whole family is killed in an airstrike I doubt you care much that an official press release regards it as a "regrettable incident".

You have said Palestinians should expect to be attacked if they allow their cities to be used as bases for attacks and weapon storages. I'm with you there, Israel has a right to defend itself even if the targets are located in civilian areas and the attacks are pretty ineffective. But likewise, you have to expect to be attacked back, more-so if you're living in the West-Bank.

And yes, I know murdering babies lacks the constructive purpose that Cast Lead had but I also think it doesn't make much difference to most Palestinians.


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## WT (Mar 13, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Hopefully someone finds the murderers. I can't understand how a person can kill an infant, someone has to be seriously depraved to actually do that.



I am not justifying the attacks in any way but a group that has been oppressed for so long witnessing death after death, their thought patterns begin to change.  Most on these forums will discard this as individual weakness, will then attempt to somehow put themselves in that situation and claim that they would have displayed a more 'peaceful' response, but in truth its quite easy to say fancy bullshit showing how nice you are. 

I personally have Chechen friends who never saw the war but after hearing mere stories from their parents, they said that they couldn't even look at Russian children. I could see the disgust in their eyes.

It's human nature to hate very easily. Although I'm uncertain how I would react to years of oppression, I hope I wouldn't let hate dominate my feelings.


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## sadated_peon (Mar 13, 2011)

KidTony said:


> Is your sympathy for the 1 month old baby at an all time low?



Yes it is at an all time low, it's parents brought it into harms way deliberately. I would consider those who claim to ACUTALLY care for the child’s well being to keep it OUT of the situation in the first place. 

If you didn't care enough to keep it from harms way, or do ANYTHING to stop if from being specifically put into harms way, I say you don't care about the child now that it is dead. 

If Israeli's cared for the well being, they would removed them from the settlements, not institute more building. Like the Palestinians they are using children’s deaths in their conflict. 

So, I have very little sympathy. I will only start having sympathy when settlers raise the children in Israel, and pedestrians keep their terrorist of out schools/hospitals/residential areas.


----------



## Utopia Realm (Mar 13, 2011)

Feel bad for the family. Especially the baby.


----------



## clip (Mar 14, 2011)

like the wise old man always said: they started it.

have a taste of your own medicine motherfuckers

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Mael (Mar 14, 2011)

clip said:


> like the wise old man always said: they started it.
> 
> have a taste of your own medicine motherfuckers
> 
> ?\_(ツ)_/?



And any attempt you previously made to show any sort of intellect is immediately thrown out the window.

I believe we found someone worse than anyone else on the anti-Israel group.


----------



## Syed (Mar 14, 2011)

Perseverance said:


> Not even 1% even with what Isreali's done to Palastinians.



QFT.

Also this murder was evil and horrendous no question there. And yes it may or may not have been Palestinian. But I'm surprised it was just a murder of a family. If say it were a Palestinian, I mean having your homes destroyed constantly, hearing bombs, gun shots and bombs weekly coupled with people dieing on a regular basis and Israeli settler harassment, can people even imagine the psychological effects these are having on the Palestinians? Kids are literally growing up in this situation which is terrible. I read someone complaining that Palestinian TV is to blame. In all honestly it's more than likely the Israeli occupation imo. Kids make up the majority of the Palestinian population too. We've seen what happens when we get child soldiers in Africa. It strips them of their humanity. So again not surprised this happened.


----------



## Mael (Mar 14, 2011)

This is going to turn into an anti-Israel wankfest real quick...if it already hasn't.


----------



## Syed (Mar 14, 2011)

Mael said:


> This is going to turn into an anti-Israel wankfest real quick...if it already hasn't.



The cards are stacked against Israel at this point. That and logic.


----------



## Razgriez (Mar 14, 2011)

This thread proves how the conflict wont ever really end.

But from the information that Ive seen Israel has tried time and time again to use more peaceful tactics only to have it thrown back into their face. I dont blame them at all for ignoring Palestinian demands and continuing on their expansion.


----------



## Altron (Mar 14, 2011)

clip said:


> like the wise old man always said: they started it.
> 
> have a taste of your own medicine motherfuckers
> 
> ?\_(ツ)_/?


Fail troll is Fail. Ever realize this will make Israel retaliate against Palestine again. If they started it then now with this they will finish it.


----------



## Darth inVaders (Mar 14, 2011)

I think the biggest problem with many posters is that they equate the horrendous crimes of a minority of people (either alone or as part of an extremist group) with the entire population. It wasn't Palenstinians who murdered a helpless baby and family - it was some animals who were Palestinian (supposedly, terrorist groups have in the past claimed credit for things they didn't do). The PA had no role in this (do they even have any real power anymore?) and did not condone it in any way - in fact they condemned it (making Avigdor Lieberman a giant lying bigot).

As much as I hate the illegal settlers who are victimizing Palestinians and are totally acting like thieves and criminals, land is not worth blood. Catch the animals and deal justice to them - serious justice on par with the mercy they showed this family. And kick that lying freak Lieberman out of power and tear down those illegal settlements too. It's long past the time to take serious steps toward peace so start doing it already.


----------



## T4R0K (Mar 14, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> As a Jew and a self-proclaimed Zionist, I find this attack appalling. More so that it doesn't do anyone good. Settlers will use this excuse to further their advancement into Palestinian territory continuing the cycle. I don't see why Israel find ti necessary to continue to create more homes into Palestinian territory. They honestly would rather wipe out all teh Palestinians than make peace. Absolutley shameful.
> 
> On the other hand terrorist organizations like Hamas that pretend to be fighting for Palestinians don't do any good either.



Wow ! You made sense, and I agree with you, and you describe yourself as 





> a jew and self-proclaimed zionist



In a surprising way, it shows you can consider things and events in a reflected way. Which is good. 

As a Bosnian, in my people's history, we have like, tens of thousands of reasons to try to get even with the Serbs, and we don't because, why bother ? More death, more hate, less trying to move on and achieve peace. The Israel-Palestine conflict shows how unworthy of anything retributions are. 

This crime is JUST as horrible as any crime. I don't think hating a people even more is any interesting, considering stuff as horrible get done by settlers as well.

A crime is a crime is a crime. No matter the perpetrator being white, arab, jew, black or whatever. Just catch the criminal, judge him, and move one to the other case.

The only problem making it not possible is Hamas'/other Pali resistance group cult of death and Israel's willingness to punish a whole population for the actions of some.

You guys will never achieve peace, and in a poll, I wouldn't support any of you, jerks.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Mar 14, 2011)

the only rationale here is payback, payback is a friend, and you can never rule out someone won't want to pay you back for some perceived injustice.  and payback begets payback too!

it's an endless cycle yall


----------



## Syed (Mar 14, 2011)

FapperWocky said:


> the only rationale here is payback, payback is a friend, and you can never rule out someone won't want to pay you back for some perceived injustice.  and payback begets payback too!
> 
> it's an endless cycle yall



Yep. One side does shit, the other counters and it goes on and on. The biggest losers in this are the Palestinians though. They're losing land.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 14, 2011)

Look at people trying to rationalize murder.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Mar 14, 2011)

OP requested rationalizations


----------



## zuul (Mar 14, 2011)

Horrible.


----------



## Oil Can (Mar 14, 2011)

Did it say how they went about murdering the infant?

I'm mildly curious about how one would go about doing that.


----------



## Yoko (Mar 14, 2011)

This is being so badly received because the crime was performed on a personal level.  In other words, breaking into a home and slaughtering a family [and a baby] in cold blood makes people gasp in awe and disgust - mostly because they can probably imagine the horror of something like that happening.  The fact that they can picture it makes it worth more to them [in terms of actually understanding it].

Observing the big picture, and we all know its not as simple as that.  Compare the death tolls on either side and it should be clear what I'm trying to say.  Most people won't gasp from large scale murders/genocides simply because the brain cannot comprehend such numbers.  If I tell you one hundred people died in your state last week via a disease or some large accident, the general reaction will most likely be "meh, poor them."  If I tell you someone got brutally murdered in their home, you will most likely feel more sympathy.  

People who are saying Palestinians are sick are one-dimensional close minded sickos (I've seen two posts on this thread) and who are easily swayed by what the media says rather than use their brain and observe are idiots, to put it bluntly.  You also clearly have a double standard - the Palestinians have had weapons used against them that violated the Geneva Convention, have been kicked out of their lands, and have basically had the short end of the stick over the past 50 years.  

No, I don't support the slaughter of babies.  But I also don't support the on-going hypocrisy.



Ehandz said:


> Did it say how they went about murdering the infant?
> 
> I'm mildly curious about how one would go about doing that.



Not trying to single you out or anything, but this post basically proves my point.  Your mind is trying to picture how one could go about killing an infant on a personal level [face-to-face].

If the infant was, say, in a house getting fire bombed, you wouldn't be saying what you just said.  It'd just be passed off as another generic murder rather than the "oh-my-god-how-could-they" reaction everyone is going through right now.


----------



## butcher50 (Mar 14, 2011)

blah blah blah blah Israel is BAD, we get it.

blah blah blah blah Plasteline (whatever the fuck their name is) is poor, innocent victim......we get it too.

Pashli vse Nahoi 

Hur Hur Hur Hur.....


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## Syed (Mar 14, 2011)

butcher50 said:


> blah blah blah blah Israel is BAD, we get it.
> 
> blah blah blah blah Plasteline (whatever the fuck their name is) is poor, innocent victim......we get it too.
> 
> ...



Yeah cause we all know that rocks and poorly guided/obselete rockets>air strikes, banned chemical use, and Modern American weaponry


----------



## Aiku (Mar 15, 2011)

That is horrible.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 15, 2011)

Oh my God. The poor people. The poor children. Who could be this monstrous? *sighs*

That poor girl walked in to see her family dead...? That is just...really sad. 

I pray they rest in peace. 



			
				sadated_peon said:
			
		

> In which the firebombed people houses with children inside.
> 
> So yea, I don't see why I should give a damn about people who move to a country that isn't theirs because they believe it is a religious mandate to take land from the people who live there, then attack the civilian population around them.


Are you trolling? I really hope you are, Sadated  

But basically, you blame these innocent people (and children) for something people in the past did...? Do you also blame all Germans old and young, for what the Nazis and Hitler did? 

Or, do you feel this away about the illegal immigrants who enter the United States of America? You lose all sympathy and compassion for those reasons? Because people live in a country their religious or ancestors, weren't originally from? 


You sound like that crazy God follower on youtube who hates Atheists saying she prayed for Japan's destruction...


			
				Cardboard Tube Knight said:
			
		

> Look at people trying to rationalize murder.


And I was really hoping not to see that in this thread...I was disappointed.


----------



## Oil Can (Mar 15, 2011)

Yokokorama said:


> Not trying to single you out or anything, but this post basically proves my point.  Your mind is trying to picture how one could go about killing an infant on a personal level [face-to-face].
> 
> If the infant was, say, in a house getting fire bombed, you wouldn't be saying what you just said.  It'd just be passed off as another generic murder rather than the "oh-my-god-how-could-they" reaction everyone is going through right now.



Well yeah. It takes a different kind of person to be able to kill an infant in a personal way. There's a big difference between bombing a house and breaking into one and stabbing the inhabitants to death.

Not that I'm saying this is something that ONLY a Palestinian can do. There are monsters everywhere, nationality has nothing to do with it. There's a special place in hell for someone that can bring themselves to stab an infant to death in a house they broke into. I remember reading this news story where some guy broke into a house. The father was away and the guy murdered the mother and then buried her infant child alive. Same sort of thing, though I think burying someone alive is a little less personal than stabbing them. 

The point being that killing an infant isn't a racial thing and that prick that tried justifying it by saying that its the parent's fault for moving there in the first place is either a horrible person or completely missing the point at a level that approaches mental illness.


----------



## Kiss (Mar 15, 2011)

That's horrible.


----------



## Yoko (Mar 15, 2011)

Ehandz said:


> Well yeah. It takes a different kind of person to be able to kill an infant in a personal way. There's a big difference between bombing a house and breaking into one and stabbing the inhabitants to death.



The average house has kids in it.  Firebombing a house and saying "I didn't know there were kids inside" isn't really an applicable excuse.  The end result is the same, and so was the intention.  

Not to mention their crimes are always on the personal level/face to face due to the lack of technology.  The majority of Palestinians are armed with rocks and homemade rockets [basically scraps of metal].  So they don't have the leisure of carpet bombing a neighborhood and then saying "we didn't know kids were inside." 



> Not that I'm saying this is something that ONLY a Palestinian can do. There are monsters everywhere, nationality has nothing to do with it. There's a special place in hell for someone that can bring themselves to stab an infant to death in a house they broke into. I remember reading this news story where some guy broke into a house. The father was away and the guy murdered the mother and then buried her infant child alive. Same sort of thing, though I think burying someone alive is a little less personal than stabbing them.



Theres also a special place in hell for people who bomb neighborhoods, bulldoze houses, watch as little kids starve to death [which is far more painful then getting stabbed to death], and use chemical weapons against a much less powerful enemy.  Again, I'm not saying killing babies is a good thing.  But people are using the baby as a device [in the context of this discussion] to make the Palestinians look like sickos.  It makes anyone who tries to say anything against this look like a jerk.  First off, theres an exception to everything - one bad person should not represent all [which you already stated, but I'm just restating it for clarity].

And for all we know, they could have suffered something far worse and were out for revenge.  I know some people from Palestine who have lost family members [or friends].

And I have to disagree - burying someone alive is far worse than just stabbing them.  The pain they go through, and hearing their helpless screams as they suffocate - thats far worse than a simple stab.  Obviously, if the stab isn't lethal and they just bleed out to death, then it might be worse.  But in general, suffering deaths are worse than immediate, painless deaths.



> The point being that killing an infant isn't a racial thing and that prick that tried justifying it by saying that its the parent's fault for moving there in the first place is either a horrible person or completely missing the point at a level that approaches mental illness.



While trying to justify it seems a bit far fetched, its still a factor that has to be taken into account.  If you barge into somebody's house, claim it to be your own, and then not expect some form of retaliation, you are indeed held accountable, at least to some degree.  Obviously, slaughtering the kid was unnecessary - hell, they could have just told them to leave instead of killing them.  So while it may not completely justify it, especially when people are looking at this solely through an emotional mindset, its still something that should be taken into account.  I'm not justifying the slaughter but, the fact is, they shouldn't be in somebody else's land or pushing people out of their home.

Again, this basically furthers the point I'm trying to make.  People focus on the "mental illness" aspect of the situation, and ignore all the other factors that led up to what happened.  Chances are, they've been victimized just as badly, if not worse.  And as I've said before, Palestinians have rocks, scraps of metal [which the media calls "missiles"], and the occasional hand grenade [which results in the infamous "suicide bombers"].  The murders they commit always have to be on a personal, face to face level because they don't have the luxury of technology.

If Israel wipes out a neighborhood [via explosions/airstrikes], people say "oh but they didn't KNOW there were babies and elderly people inside those homes."  That excuse is beyond lame because we both know that most homes house kids and old people.  Putting on a blindfold and slaughtering thousands of people doesn't make it humane.

While some people may not notice it, or just refuse to acknowledge it, its a gaping double standard in their logic.


----------



## sadated_peon (Mar 15, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Are you trolling? I really hope you are, Sadated
> 
> But basically, you blame these innocent people (and children) for something people in the past did...? Do you also blame all Germans old and young, for what the Nazis and Hitler did?


In the past?
It was the same community and it happened 2 weeks ago. There is no equivalence to your scenario. Go look at some of my other posts in this thread if you like which deal with similar criticism. 


Terra Branford said:


> Or, do you feel this away about the illegal immigrants who enter the United States of America? You lose all sympathy and compassion for those reasons? Because people live in a country their religious or ancestors, weren't originally from?


An illegal immigrant comes to a new country to JOIN that country to become a citizen of that country. They don't come there in a religious drive to expand territory of the home nation. 

If "settlers" wanted to become Palestinians, left behind the Israeli citizenship. It wouldn't be so bad. 
But they don't, they want to expand Israel into the west bank, that is why they are call settlers, not immigrants. 

I am not sure how you are so woefully ignorant about this.


----------



## butcher50 (Mar 15, 2011)

Syed said:


> Yeah cause we all know that rocks and poorly guided/obselete rockets>air strikes, banned chemical use, and Modern American weaponry


Pashala Nahoi suka yobanaya

ya tvayou mamo v pizdo yebal


----------



## Syed (Mar 15, 2011)

butcher50 said:


> Pashala Nahoi suka yobanaya
> 
> ya tvayou mamo v pizdo yebal



Hey I can speak in another language too. 

Tere ma sala kamina, gada tu lund ko choosta hai. 


So anyways my condolences to the relatives of the family that was killed. Hopefully murders and injustice on BOTH Israeli and Palestinian sides can stop in my generation.


----------



## butcher50 (Mar 15, 2011)

Syed said:


> Hey I can speak in another language too.
> 
> Tere ma sala kamina, gada tu lund ko choosta hai.
> 
> ...



rot zakrila shloha sranaya, tvoy rot doljen sasat horosho.


----------



## Syed (Mar 15, 2011)

butcher50 said:


> rot zakrila shloha sranaya, tvoy rot doljen sasat horosho.



Nice Russian bro. But seriously talk in English and get back on topic.


----------



## butcher50 (Mar 15, 2011)

Syed said:


> Nice Russian bro. But seriously talk in English and get back on topic.



edi naaaaaahhhhhhooooooi pizda sranaya.


----------



## Mael (Mar 15, 2011)

butcher50 said:


> edi naaaaaahhhhhhooooooi pizda sranaya.



Союз нерушимый республик свободных.  Сплотила навеки Великая Русь!


----------



## butcher50 (Mar 15, 2011)

Mael said:


> Союз нерушимый республик свободных.  Сплотила навеки Великая Русь!



you got that right


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## Mael (Mar 15, 2011)

butcher50 said:


> you got that right



Despite being an American...one of the best anthems evar.


----------



## Oil Can (Mar 15, 2011)

Yokokorama said:


> The average house has kids in it.  Firebombing a house and saying "I didn't know there were kids inside" isn't really an applicable excuse.  The end result is the same, and so was the intention.
> 
> Not to mention their crimes are always on the personal level/face to face due to the lack of technology.  The majority of Palestinians are armed with rocks and homemade rockets [basically scraps of metal].  So they don't have the leisure of carpet bombing a neighborhood and then saying "we didn't know kids were inside."
> 
> ...



I think you're missing my point. And its not far fetched to say that you're trying to justify killing a baby when you're saying stuff like 



> "Chances are, they've been victimized just as badly, if not worse.  And as I've said before, Palestinians have rocks, scraps of metal [which the media calls "missiles"], and the occasional hand grenade [which results in the infamous "suicide bombers"].  The murders they commit always have to be on a personal, face to face level because they don't have the luxury of technology."



Because obviously an Israeli infant = IDF. Clearly, they would grow up into a murderer. It was just a preemptive attack!

Yes its a terrible thing to kill a child regardless, but its one thing to do it from a distance with a bomb and another to do it close and personal with a knife. At least with a bomb you can justify it to yourself. It may sound like a cop-out to you saying "Oh but we didn't know there were kids there" but for some people its enough, and you have to remember that the people that are killing others are, well, human beings. Its not easy to kill someone but at least if you drop a bomb on them, you're doing it from a distance. You don't have to see the result of your actions.

Killing a baby with a knife? That's something completely different. It doesn't matter why you doing it, you're still stabbing a defenseless infant to death.


----------



## Megaharrison (Apr 17, 2011)

They were teenagers themselves connected to the Fatah-affiliated PFLP and have already confessed to the murders.

After the arrest, pro-Palestinian "peace activists" flocked to the killers village and visited the town hall to express solidarity:


----------



## stream (Apr 17, 2011)

Wow. I don't know how they managed to solve a case like that. It's probably hard to get anybody to testify about anything...

Well, the two guys seem like they are eager to be martyrs. Israel does not use the death penalty, so they can look forward to a life in jail...


----------



## Altron (Apr 17, 2011)

stream said:


> Wow. I don't know how they managed to solve a case like that. It's probably hard to get anybody to testify about anything...
> 
> Well, the two guys seem like they are eager to be martyrs. Israel does not use the death penalty, so they can look forward to a life in jail...


Palestinian's can once again look forward to reprisals from Israel once again.


----------



## emROARS (Apr 17, 2011)

*sigh*

It doesn't help your cause ANY by doing this.


----------



## Spock (Apr 17, 2011)

hellonoam said:


> These arabs should have their families killed



Isn't your lucky day? There isn't a single Levanti who don't have at least 4 members of his family killed by Israeli soldiers.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Apr 17, 2011)

UnidentifiedFlyingObject said:


> Isn't your lucky day? There isn't a single Levanti who don't have at least 4 members of his family killed by Israeli soldiers.



If that's true, inbreeding must be common practice for them.


----------



## Jin-E (Apr 17, 2011)

These degenerates will unfortunately top the list as negotiation objects for terrorists who manage to take Israeli's as hostages in the future. Though if Israel had simply killed them, they would have been elevated as martyrs. So overall, its good they have been brought to justice 

As the case with Samir Kuntar demonstrates, many Arabs have no qualms about praising killers of jewish children


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Apr 17, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> As a Jew and a self-proclaimed Zionist, I find this attack appalling. More so that it doesn't do anyone good. Settlers will use this excuse to further their advancement into Palestinian territory continuing the cycle. I don't see why Israel find ti necessary to continue to create more homes into Palestinian territory. They honestly would rather wipe out all teh Palestinians than make peace. Absolutley shameful.
> 
> On the other hand terrorist organizations like Hamas that pretend to be fighting for Palestinians don't do any good either.



Whom are they fighting for, if not the Palestinians? The Palestinians have clearly supported terrorism, there's no use dodging that. I agree with you that it's been a terrible mistake, as world history has shown and as the future will show. It only strengthens one's aggressors.



Yokokorama said:


> The average house has kids in it.  Firebombing a house and saying "I didn't know there were kids inside" isn't really an applicable excuse.  The end result is the same, and so was the intention.
> 
> Not to mention their crimes are always on the personal level/face to face due to the lack of technology.  The majority of Palestinians are armed with rocks and homemade rockets [basically scraps of metal].  So they don't have the leisure of carpet bombing a neighborhood and then saying "we didn't know kids were inside."
> 
> ...



Utter bollocks, to the hundredth power.


----------



## Mael (Apr 17, 2011)

UnidentifiedFlyingObject said:


> Isn't your lucky day? There isn't a single Levanti who don't have at least 4 members of his family killed by Israeli soldiers.



Figures plox.


----------



## Megaharrison (Apr 17, 2011)

UnidentifiedFlyingObject said:


> Isn't your lucky day? There isn't a single Levanti who don't have at least 4 members of his family killed by Israeli soldiers.



There are 4 million Palestinians, their average family size is about 7. So that would be at least 2,285,714 killed. Are you willing to back that figure up?

Keep in mind that over the last 30 years, total Palestinian dead by Israel has been about 7,000. The U.S. and Europeans killed more people over a month invading Iraq.


----------



## JellyButter (Apr 17, 2011)

..............................


----------



## Karsh (Apr 17, 2011)

Ai... horrendous and really doesn't help the situation at all except for maybe getting nods of approval from extreme israeli-hating palestinians.
What a sad viscious circle, but even though the land disputes in question is quite arguably wrong and brings forth even more tension they will NEVER justify murder, especially of this caliber. There simply is and will never be a justifiable excuse no matter who the characters are.
Some excuse this by considering the situation the murderers are put in in which their relationship with murder is different and you know what, that well may be but everyone has basic understanding of empathy especially amongst their own and to dole out brutality to others may be seen as excusable to some but it should NEVER be an excuse ever, because that only allows such acts to keep happening.


----------



## Prince Vegeta (Apr 17, 2011)

Mexican God said:


> Palestinians are sick. I hate them all.




One time i was looking at Al-Jazeera TV and there was a live program some Palestinian women called and said Can't Ali Hassan al Majeed use Chemical weapon on the Kurds again, she was really serious about it too.


----------



## Megaharrison (Apr 17, 2011)

Wakattebayo said:


> One time i was looking at Al-Jazeera TV and there was a live program some Palestinian women called and said Can't Ali Hassan al Majeed use Chemical weapon on the Kurds again, she was really serious about it too.



The Palestinians were quite pro-Saddam, alongside Jordan the PLO under Arafat was the only Arab faction to side with Iraq during the 1st Gulf War, despite all the atrocities they were committing on other the Kuwaiti's. Makes you wonder why Kuwait still humps their leg.


----------



## Table (Apr 17, 2011)

The IDF should be going after them of course but so should the PA.... If the Palestinian Authority is to be considered the legitimate ruler of the West Bank then they should be required to maintain control over their people and implement punishment when someone maniacs step out of line, otherwise their rule cannot be considered legitimate and any question of future sovereignty can be disregarded.   This act doesn't represent the PA of course, but it is a moment for them to express more than condemnation and actually take action and bring justice to such a gruesome attack.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 17, 2011)

Table said:


> The IDF should be going after them of course but so should the PA.... If the Palestinian Authority is to be considered the legitimate ruler of the West Bank then they should be required to maintain control over their people and implement punishment when someone maniacs step out of line, otherwise their rule cannot be considered legitimate and any question of future sovereignty can be disregarded.   This act doesn't represent the PA of course, but it is a moment for them to express more than condemnation and actually take action and bring justice to such a gruesome attack.


The PA doesn't seem to want the attacks stopped and they've put their people into the position of doing these things by letting Hamas into the government and openly stating they wanted to exterminate Jews.


----------



## Spock (Apr 17, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> There are 4 million Palestinians, their average family size is about 7. So that would be at least 2,285,714 killed. Are you willing to back that figure up?
> 
> Keep in mind that over the last 30 years, total Palestinian dead by Israel has been about 7,000. The U.S. and Europeans killed more people over a month invading Iraq.



No I am not willing to back that up. All I was trying to say is that Arabs have more family killed than Israelis as to answer the guy above who wished Arab families death penalty. 

I find the number quite suspicious since at least 6,430 Palestinians were killed since 2000, were just 570 killed in the past 20 years? I really really really doubt that. At least that what btselem says...(The Israeli Information Center for Human Right)


----------



## stream (Apr 17, 2011)

UnidentifiedFlyingObject said:


> No I am not willing to back that up. All I was trying to say is that Arabs have more family killed than Israelis as to answer the guy above who wished Arab families death penalty.
> 
> I find the number quite suspicious since at least 6,430 Palestinians were killed since 2000, were just 570 killed in the past 20 years? I really really really doubt that. At least that what btselem says...(The Israeli Information Center for Human Right)



Mega's numbers are probably off by a little, but maybe not that much...

According to Wikipedia, from 1987-2010 there were 7978 Palestinians killed.
So in the last 23 years, about 8'000 Palestinians killed. But one can note that the large majority of these are in the past ten years: From 2000-2010, there were 6445 Palestinians killed, about your number. The period before was indeed a lot calmer.

Another thing is that (according to Wikipedia) these numbers included 1593 killed during violence between Palestinians. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Depending on whether you count the people killed during the first Lebanon war, (something like 1'500-2'000 Palestinians got killed there), you get somewhere between 8'000 and 10'000 Palestinians killed in the past 30 years.

Estimations are up to 14'500 Palestinians killed since Israel exists; all the more surprising that almost half got killed since 2000.


----------



## Megaharrison (Apr 17, 2011)

UnidentifiedFlyingObject said:


> No I am not willing to back that up. All I was trying to say is that Arabs have more family killed than Israelis as to answer the guy above who wished Arab families death penalty.



So you were making up figures out of your ass then. I see.



> I find the number quite suspicious since at least 6,430 Palestinians were killed since 2000, were just 570 killed in the past 20 years? I really really really doubt that. At least that what btselem says...(The Israeli Information Center for Human Right)



And yes, around 570-600 were killed in the decade preceding the 2nd Intifada. B'tselem is where I got my statistics in the first place.

Few really understand or know of what the West Bank-Israel relations were like before the Intifada's. There were no checkpoints and people could travel freely back and forth. A Palestinian could get in a car in Jenin and drive straight to Tel Aviv without stopping in 1980. The settlement movement hadn't kicked off much yet either (that would grow in response to the growing violence, the vast majority of settlements were built in the Intifada years). There was obviously violence but they were isolated incidents, and IDF presence in the area was minimal (even smaller then it is today, and that says something).



			
				stream said:
			
		

> According to Wikipedia, from 1987-2010 there were 7978 Palestinians killed.
> So in the last 23 years, about 8'000 Palestinians killed.



I subtracted the 1,000 Palestinians killed by other Palestinians int he 1st Intifada, and also subtracted the number killed in the current Palestinian Civil War so that 8,000 becomes 7,000. The Palestinians went on murderous rampages in their own communities in the 1st Intifada when they couldn't find any Jews to attack.

But these figures really show what a truly minor conflict the Palestinian problem is. At most, 8,000 in the past 20-30 years whereas you had over that in just a month in Iraq, not to mention recent massacres in the Congo surpassed that level in just a few days. And yet, the Palestinians are the only group of "refugees" at the UN with their own exclusive aid and refugee agency. It's really disgusting and trivializes those many more suffering people throughout the world.


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## hcheng02 (Apr 17, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> The Palestinians were quite pro-Saddam, alongside Jordan the PLO under Arafat was the only Arab faction to side with Iraq during the 1st Gulf War, despite all the atrocities they were committing on other the Kuwaiti's. Makes you wonder why Kuwait still humps their leg.



I'm not sure Kuwait really cares about the Palestinians that much. Didn't they kick out all the Palestinians in their country right after the first Gulf War?


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## Spock (Apr 17, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> So you were making up figures out of your ass then. I see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not really, comparing familial losses, the Levanti outnumbers the Israeli. 

There had been incidents of small massacres such as Church of Nativity plus the killing the happened everyday in the past 30 years, if added all together, they will add up to more than thousand. 

There is no way that only 600 died in the past 30 years if more than 6000 thousands died in the past 10 years.


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## Orion (Apr 17, 2011)

So now your just ignoring facts, thats called trolling.


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## Ennoea (Apr 17, 2011)

Doesn't every Arab country act like they're Pro Palestine for the sake of pleasing their population's Anti-Semetic views? Kuwait doesn't give a crap.


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## Megaharrison (Apr 17, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> I'm not sure Kuwait really cares about the Palestinians that much. Didn't they kick out all the Palestinians in their country right after the first Gulf War?



Yeah it was a form of collective punishment on the Palestinians due to Arafat's idiocy and because they made the wrong friends in Saddam, but ask a Kuwaiti politician today while they're so hostile to Israel and they'll cite the Palestinian problem so I was just pointing out the (shocking) hypocrisy. Saudi Arabia is the same way.



			
				UnidentifiedFlyingObject said:
			
		

> Not really, comparing familial losses, the Levanti outnumbers the Israeli.
> 
> There had been incidents of small massacres such as Church of Nativity plus the killing the happened everyday in the past 30 years, if added all together, they will add up to more than thousand.
> 
> There is no way that only 600 died in the past 30 years if more than 6000 thousands died in the past 10 years.



Prove me wrong then. You went from claiming that 2.3 million Pali's died over this time period and now you're desperate for over 6,000. Pretty funny.


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## Spock (Apr 17, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Yeah it was a form of collective punishment on the Palestinians due to Arafat's idiocy and because they made the wrong friends in Saddam, but ask a Kuwaiti politician today while they're so hostile to Israel and they'll cite the Palestinian problem so I was just pointing out the (shocking) hypocrisy. Saudi Arabia is the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong then. You went from claiming that 2.3 million Pali's died over this time period and now you're desperate for over 6,000. Pretty funny.



No need, a person who believes that a Palestinian could get in a car in Jenin and drive straight to Tel Aviv without stopping in 1980 to be true won't believe that more than 600 died for the past 30 years, and since Israels existence..it is countless. 
Psh, I never said 2.3 million Palestinians got killed over that time all I am saying is 'there is no way that only 600 died in the past 30 years if more than 6000 thousands died in the past 10 years.'

I am glad to serve your amusement.


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## Raiden (Apr 17, 2011)

Some sick shit. I don't know what the hell is going on in that region, but it's ridiculous.


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## Megaharrison (Apr 17, 2011)

UnidentifiedFlyingObject said:


> No need, a person who believes that a Palestinian could get in a car in Jenin and drive straight to Tel Aviv without stopping in 1980 to be true won't believe that more than 600 died for the past 30 years, and since Israels existence..it is countless.
> Psh, I never said 2.3 million Palestinians got killed over that time all I am saying is 'there is no way that only 600 died in the past 30 years if more than 6000 thousands died in the past 10 years.'
> 
> I am glad to serve your amusement.



If I'm so wrong surely you could prove me wrong easily. You did say 2.3 million Pali's died earlier, as you claimed every family had "at least" 4 family members dead. Now you're backing away from that. 

You don't seem to understand what happened in the past 10 years vs. the 20 years before that. The 1st Intifada wasn't an especially bloody affair, the Pali's killed as many of themselves as Israel did. Arafat's 2nd Intifada is what led to the vast majority of Palestinian deaths.

Again I await evidence proving me wrong. Until then you just make me look better.


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## Mael (Apr 17, 2011)

UnidentifiedFlyingObject said:


> No need, a person who believes that a Palestinian could get in a car in Jenin and drive straight to Tel Aviv without stopping in 1980 to be true won't believe that more than 600 died for the past 30 years, and since Israels existence..it is countless.
> Psh, I never said 2.3 million Palestinians got killed over that time all I am saying is 'there is no way that only 600 died in the past 30 years if more than 6000 thousands died in the past 10 years.'
> 
> I am glad to serve your amusement.



You just basically help the argument, fair or not, that Palestine's supporters are worthless and wholly ignorant.


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## Nyasi (Apr 20, 2011)

The last time I checked this forum actively was 2009. But reading those threads now... I see the same retards (Mael, Megaharrison and so on) still debating about Israel and Palestine. Absolutely nothing changed.

Magnificent.


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