# Kakashi vs Raikage



## RitenLives77 (Sep 22, 2009)

Kakshi vs Raikage 1 on 1

Conditions: Limited knowledge of each other, all Manga based.  Raikage already with his lightning armor in place, Kakashi with SHARINGAN (has MS but not activated) revealed and with chakra form in his hand ready to activate Rakiri.
Setting: S-Rank mission assigned to Kakashi.  Assasinate the Raikage.  Raikage is aware of Kakashi.  Kakashi's team and Raikage's bodyguards are dead from the initial skirmish.
Battlefield: Wooded area, with occasional open fields, small river splits at certain parts.
Starting Distance: 25 meters. 
State of Mind : Killing Intent

Who will win?

(I don't think anyone has posted this in particular. Who has the better Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, Raiton and overall biggest cajones?!)


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## Bart (Sep 22, 2009)

Raikage wins.

Kakashi is not going to have Susanoo to protect him, as Sasuke had. The least Kakashi can do is to make sure that Raikage doesn't enter close quarters with him, as logically it would end in a most painful death; but I somewhat doubt Raikage staying long range.

Raikage has Bijuu level Chakra, Raiton Shroud and has shown reflexes and speed on similar ground with that of Yondaime.

Kakashi's fail-safe of Kamui will be virtually useless, due to the Raikage's reflexes. However, Kakashi's Raiton may very well pierce through Raikage's Shroud, but I cannot see such an action go unrepaied.


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## daschysta (Sep 22, 2009)

Interesting match, 

Kakashi is either blitzed to all hell,

Or he is able successfully implement a number of bunshin feints eventually hitting raikage with a raikiri, possibly crippling him.

another possibilty is hit raikage with a kamui while he is unaware of kakashi's postition after destroying a bunshin.

I really think that kakashi would outsmart raikage and win, really dumb brutes arent really a good matchup for strategists like kakashi and shikamaru, especially when the former does have moves that could severely damage/ oneshot people like the raikage.


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## Mowgli Uchiha (Sep 22, 2009)

raikage would pwn if he caught kakashi

but if kakashi could stay away from his reach and just use mass bushin's and kunai and whatnot, then maybe after pissing off raikage and distracting him...

ZAM!  CHIDORI THROUGH THE BACK OF THE HEAD BITCH!


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## daschysta (Sep 22, 2009)

Yeah I really feel sasuke could have owned the raikage if he fought in a strategic manner like he used to.

if chidori can pierce the lightning shroud then raikiri can do it better, and raikage really doesnt seem like someone that is difficult to trick.

genjutsu is a possibility as well


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## Bart (Sep 22, 2009)

daschysta said:


> Genjutsu is a possibility as well



Raikage is virtually impervious to Genjutsu, due to the Raiton Shroud conducting electrically structured Chakra throughout his body, mainly the synapeses of the central nervous system, plus the fact that his synapses are on the same ground as Yondaime helps.

*How to escape Genjutsu:*

*1.* Disrupt the flow of Chakra.
*2.* Inflict pain upon yourself.
*3.* Death.


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## Bankotsu_the_Great (Sep 22, 2009)

Kakashi's only hope is MS. Rakage seems like he could avoid it so I'm giving this one to Raikage with moderate difficulty. Even if Kakashi could defend himself somehow, he would just get beat down over time. Raikiri would have virtually no effect on Raikage and MS seems too slow and not acurrate enough. Plus he only has about 2-3 shots so yeah. Raikage wins.


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## ssjhaider (Sep 23, 2009)

well at first look, raikage seems like some overly buffed invincible dude.

but upon, scrutiny i realized that just like everyone else he has his own weakness. firstly he seems quite dull, not much thinking other than "KILL, KILL, KILL", not saying that thats not cool. secondly, sasuke was actually able to get a hit in, no 2, though the first one didnt do much, and neither did the second one. so what does that say, you either Keep hitting him where in the same spot, or you hit him with something stronger.

my, question is. with the sharingan and the mastery of raiton, can kakashi copy the raiton shroud?

ok, now pertaining to the fight, in the forest like area, raikage is at a disadvantage. he wont know where kakashi is but kakashi will always know where he his. raikage can easily get assassinated/sneaked up on in this battle field against kakashi (like kakuzu and itachi). other than that, kakashi wouldnt realy fight any other way. IC he would go for a simple/well planned out assassination. 

be it raikiri or kamui (for those who dont belive that there is actually a power difference in chidori and raikiri), the raikage will definitely get assassinated.

other than that, if kakashi fights up close than like sasuke he might survive a while (probably longer than sasuke). he would get in more hits, since he has KBs/RKBs/MKBs. but other than that it would take a miracle for him to do much more.

i would say kakashi wins 6/10 times, but that mostly due to his brains and the battlefield advantage.


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## Dariustwinblade (Sep 23, 2009)

ssjhaider said:


> well at first look, raikage seems like some overly buffed invincible dude.
> 
> but upon, scrutiny i realized that just like everyone else he has his own weakness. firstly he seems quite dull, not much thinking other than "KILL, KILL, KILL", not saying that thats not cool. secondly, sasuke was actually able to get a hit in, no 2, though the first one didnt do much, and neither did the second one. so what does that say, you either Keep hitting him where in the same spot, or you hit him with something stronger.
> 
> ...




^ this Raikage is EXTREMELY overrated he can be easily outsmarted and outwitted to his death. Like Hidan and Kazuku.


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## Marco (Sep 23, 2009)

If Kakashi gets an opportunity to doton out of that place and get back his bearings, he's winning this without a doubt..

Raikage is a straightforward fighter who doesn't seem very well endowed in strategies..

With the battlefield being a forest, if Kakashi gets an opportunity to disengage from Raikage then he can doton to a safe distance and easily assassinate Raikage. He could do it easily if he can stay back a little and hide and then use Kamui..

But I don't think Kamui would be even required.. 

Anyway, lets see..

Distance is 25 meters.. 

Scenario 1: Raikage shunshins into close range for taijutsu.. Kakashi manages to disengage and dotons into the underground. From here on out, Raikage has no idea where Kakashi is but Kakashi can keep dibs on him since he can see Raikage's chakra with his sharingan.

Kakashi puts some distance between them with the doton.. Takes up position behind some tree.. Then he proceeds to use Kamui on Raikage. BAM!! Raikage can't do anything since he doesn't expect a jutsu like that and more importantly, he doesn't know where Kakashi is.. Even Kakuzu wasn't able to sense Kakashi approaching from behind.

Scenario 2: Exactly similar to Scenario 1 but instead of Kakashi using Kamui, Kakashi summons nin dogs and sends a Kage Bunshin with the dogs to engage Raikage. At the same time, Kakashi himself dotons someplace under Raikage...

Kakashi's KB engages Raikage in taijutsu and so do the nin dogs.. The nin dogs will probably be rendered useless soon and KB will bait Raikage in when BAM!! Kakashi dotons out and pierces Raikage with a Raikiri...

Scenario 3: Raikage shunshins in.. Kakashi fails to disengage at all. Kakashi uses Raikiri but Raikage with his reflexes is able to dodge a fatal blow and proceeds to perform Liger Bomb. BAM!! Kakashi dead..

Anyway, with the battlefield advantage and intellect advantage (Raikage being quite dumb and Kakashi being the one of the smartest fighters), Kakashi takes this 7 out of 10 times.


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## POW8 (Sep 23, 2009)

Indeed I have similar feeling as the last couple posts in that at first glance you think the Raikage should be able to wrap this up easy with Bijuu level chakra and his Raiton reflex armor but thats more brute strength. 

Firstly Kakashi is alot more cunning that Sasuke and his Taijutsu skill is also higher. The Raikage is just about brute strength and his emotions cloud his judgement as we have seen in recent chapters.

I say Kakashi has a good chance at winning being a genius so yea I would say about 5/10 fights Kakashi would win.

Side note: Why are people saying Kakashi would use Doton when its weak to Raiton. Kakashi would be better of using Suiton setting a trap for the Raikage to shock himself.


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## Marco (Sep 23, 2009)

POW8 said:


> Side note: Why are people saying Kakashi would use Doton when its weak to Raiton. Kakashi would be better of using Suiton setting a trap for the Raikage to shock himself.



Because the doton people refer to here is a supplementary technique.. Kakashi isn't going to use doton to attack or defend against Raikage's Raiton attacks.. He'll just be using it to get around undetected and with some degree of protection.

And once Kakashi uses doton to go underground, there's not much Raiton can do about it.


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## hatakashi (Sep 23, 2009)

Well as always kamui can end the fight in seconds...


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## Darth (Sep 23, 2009)

Kakashi has MS?

After a long drawn out fight where both parties have sustained injuries of some sort, Kakashi snipes Raikage's head off with Kamui.

GG.


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## perman07 (Sep 23, 2009)

Marco said:


> Because the doton people refer to here is a supplementary technique.. Kakashi isn't going to use doton to attack or defend against Raikage's Raiton attacks.. He'll just be using it to get around undetected and with some degree of protection.
> 
> And once Kakashi uses doton to go underground, there's not much Raiton can do about it.


Except destroying the ground possibly

Raikage is a faster, stronger version of Gai with a Raiton shroud. Gai who was Kakashi's equal. I only see Kakashi's deceit working some times, so I say 8-9 out of 10 victories to Raikage.


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## daschysta (Sep 23, 2009)

If kakashi can copy lightning shroud he wins in a rapestomp however


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## Yoko (Sep 23, 2009)

perman07 said:


> Except destroying the ground possibly
> 
> Raikage is a faster, stronger version of Gai with a Raiton shroud. Gai who was Kakashi's equal. I only see Kakashi's deceit working some times, so I say 8-9 out of 10 victories to Raikage.



With Kakashi's moveset, he _can't_ fight at full power against Gai.  Assuming its a friendly fight, Kakashi wouldn't really want to snipe Gai's head off with Kamui or impale him with a Raikiri.  While Gai's punches would definitely hurt, they can still be used in a friendly fight while still being effective.  Kamui and Raikiri cannot be used in a friendly manner at all.


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## Koroshi (Sep 23, 2009)

In theory he can copy Raiton Shroud due to Raiton affinity and Sharingan copying powers, other than that, the best bet Kakashi has would be to Kamui Raikage's head off. Cause I just don't see Kakashi winning any way else unfortunately


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## NarutoWinsByDefault (Sep 23, 2009)

Kakashi will turn Raikage's rage against him and gain the upper hand.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 23, 2009)

Raikage picks Kakashi up and breaks him in half.

There isn't much explanation needed, eventhough Kakashi is statistically better in taijutsu than Sasuke, featwise, Sasuke has displayed better close quarter combat moves. Also his general mastery of raiton and implementation of it into his fighting style is better than Kakashi's.

The only argument that can be made here is Kakashi outsmarting Raikage, which by all means is not a factor alone that can give Kakashi the fight. No matter how you look @ it, Kakashi needs to tag raikage to kill him, and he cannot do that. Even if he creates an oppening in Raikage's defenses, raikage can tank his shit, or even still dodge them.

Kamui seems like the only thing that could harm raikage seriously, which will be dodged, and given how taxing it is on Kakashi, it spells instant death for him if it fails.


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 23, 2009)

Marco said:


> If Kakashi gets an opportunity to doton out of that place and get back his bearings, he's winning this without a doubt..
> 
> Raikage is a straightforward fighter who doesn't seem very well endowed in strategies..
> 
> ...



This. 10 char


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## Agony (Sep 23, 2009)

kakashi wil probably lose.only hope is kamui tat will probably b dodged.


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## Love. (Sep 24, 2009)

cmon raikages is fast as shit with that lightining shroud around him, his tajitsu is extraodinary and if he could catch sasuke off guard then he has a pretty decent chance of doing the same to kakashi. 

and kakashi doesnt have an ultimate defence to protect him from one of the raikages batista i mean power bombs.


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## David (Sep 24, 2009)

Kakashifans always behind Kamui in argument, saying that Kakashi can possibly win each fight he's in.  Do they not realize it takes a few seconds use (used to be a few minutes, but I guess Masashi decided to lower that time for Kakashi's benefit)?


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## knives907 (Sep 24, 2009)

Reuben Chan said:


> cmon raikages is fast as shit with that lightining shroud around him, his tajitsu is extraodinary and if he could catch sasuke off guard then he has a pretty decent chance of doing the same to kakashi.
> 
> and kakashi doesnt have an ultimate defence to protect him from one of the raikages batista i mean power bombs.



Kakashi has an entire point above Sasuke in taijutsu, unlikely that it'll end the same way Sasuke got bitched in close range. He'd still lose close, but not as bad as Sasuke did.



> Kakashifans always behind Kamui in argument, saying that Kakashi can possibly win each fight he's in. Do they not realize it takes a few seconds use (used to be a few minutes, but I guess Masashi decided to lower that time for Kakashi's benefit)?



A few minutes? What manga are you reading? It took him a few seconds the first, second, and third time he used it.

Now it's nigh instantaneous.


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## Intus Legere (Sep 24, 2009)

It's pretty clear to me that, however resourceful Kakashi is, the Raikage should win - at least in this scenario. It's hard to imagine a scenario in which this battle would be favorable to Kakashi. I don't see Kamui working where Amaterasu failed (at least, not in this case).

The question here, at least to me, is whether the Raikiri and Chidori are really different jutsus: sometimes they are implied to be, sometimes it doesn't seem so. I wonder if the Raikiri, S-ranked, would be able to do serious damage to the Raikage in that same situation (chaper 462, I guess), in which Sasuka was unable to do so.


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## MissingShinobi (Sep 24, 2009)

Reread the Pain fight. If Kakashi tries a Bunshin + Raikiri or Jack-In-The-Box + Raikiri combo... Raikage's reflexes combined with his tremendous speed will leave Kakashi taking critical blows. Now, if he wasn't going into this charging Raikiri, as you posted... _maybe_ he'd be able to 'blink' him out of existence. Maybe.


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## mastergimmy (Sep 24, 2009)

Kakashi definitely loses this one, kamui wont get raikage since sasuke with sharingan cood barely see where he was going and kakashi wont be able to predict his movements either. Raiton bushin wont work with raikage's lightning shroud and kakashi will end up dead with 2 or 3 punches.


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## MS81 (Sep 24, 2009)

I dunno, it's not about strength guys you know this!!!!

Kakashi wins for me!!!


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 24, 2009)

I don't think this match up is about strength as much as it is about strategy. I don't really see Kakashi losing to him, if he fights strategically as he did against Pain, with his exceptional usage of bunshin feints and the RKB. Unlike Sasuke, Kakashi fighting style is more artsy and trickier, no doubt Raikage would kill Kakashi, if he got a hold of him. But I doubt that would happen, Kakashi is far to skilled to make such a blunt mistake.


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## daschysta (Sep 24, 2009)

mastergimmy said:


> Kakashi definitely loses this one, kamui wont get raikage since sasuke with sharingan cood barely see where he was going and kakashi wont be able to predict his movements either. Raiton bushin wont work with raikage's lightning shroud and kakashi will end up dead with 2 or 3 punches.



Wrong sharingan can predict his movements as shown here

you

he was just able move faster than sas could use his eyeballs to direct ama.

theres a big difference

raikiri is stronger than chidori, if that scenario happens with kaka instead of sauce raikage is history


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## Sadgoob (Sep 24, 2009)

Kakashi stands no chance in my opinion. The Raikage is too fast and is an absolute tank. Kakashi's lightning clone might not even phase the Raikage who brushed off a Chidori without much effort. The Raikage is also well versed on the threat of Sharingan Doujutsu and could likely dodge Kamui as he likely moves faster than Kakashi's eyes since he can move faster than Sasuke's eyes.


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## Lord Stark (Sep 24, 2009)

Kamui GG Raikage.  
Also Raikiri>Chidori in terms of piercing power, so yes, Raikage gets stomped.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 24, 2009)

So I guess we're concluding that the same Kakashi who couldn't defeat an even half-powered Deva is stomping the Raikage. Okay. lol.


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## knives907 (Sep 24, 2009)

Illusory said:


> So I guess we're concluding that the same Kakashi who couldn't defeat an even half-powered Deva is stomping the Raikage. Okay. lol.



hurp durp, power scaling works in the battledome! 

That half powered Deva would have kicked raikage's ass too. It's a bad matchup for almost anyone (especially taijutsu fighters), where he can just blast you away at will. Deva would bansho tennin and black stick(which disturbs chakra so should pierce the shroud) his ass since he fights very directly.

Kakashi wins because he can deceive raikage. Just because he doesn't have the brute strength, or speed that raikage has doesn't mean he can't deal with it. Gai anyone? Raikiri, as i Posted above, has seemingly more piercing power, so he shouldn't have a problem using raikiri on him, and if it doesn't, Kamui will take him away.

Also, Kakashi has significantly better taijutsu(4.5) than Sasuke, so he won't get completely handled in close range.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

*Kakashis Kamui cant hit what it cant catch plus the raikage is big and bigger object the harder it is to use the justu.*

ppl bring up guy like guy stands a chance lol.

Kakashi is not going to win using Raikiri sasukes Chidori was nothing just because its better does this mean its going to work!..pls it would be nothing.

Kakashi taijutsu is just a none factor its not even close to the Raikage i think anybody reading the manga right can sum that up.

And with no back up nothing well help Kakashi he has low charkra and hes not regenerating from attacks like hes Oro there is absolutely nothing Kakashi has that can stop the raikage the best he has is Raikiri and Kamui  and since Kamui  wont work due to raikages speed and even if Raikiri has a snowballs chance of piercing the raikage obviously if the raikage is hit it wouldn't matter due to raikage high tolerance for pain and endurance were talking about a man who cuts his own arm off and takes Amaterasu without even filching.

*The Raikage rape-stomps for the win this really is not that debatable*


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> *Kakashis Kamui cant hit what it cant catch plus the raikage is big and bigger object the harder it is to use the justu.*
> 
> ppl bring up guy like guy stands a chance lol.
> 
> ...



Pain tolerance won't help him at all if Kakashi puts a raikiri through his heart. That is not debatable. Sasuke's already shown that it's not impossible to dodge his blows, especially not when he's charging straight in, and SASUKE (a full point below in taijutsu) can predict his movements, and beat Raikage in striking. Fact is, Sasuke would've killed him if his raiton shroud wasn't there, which Kakashi can pierce, and Kakashi has better taijutsu, so he should be able to dodge easier and push his raikiri (higher rank, more focused) into raikage.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> Pain tolerance won't help him at all if Kakashi puts a raikiri through his heart. That is not debatable. Sasuke's already shown that it's not impossible to dodge his blows, especially not when he's charging straight in, and SASUKE (a full point below in taijutsu) can predict his movements, and beat Raikage in striking. Fact is, Sasuke would've killed him if his raiton shroud wasn't there, which Kakashi can pierce, and Kakashi has better taijutsu, so he should be able to dodge easier and push his raikiri (higher rank, more focused) into raikage.



 What makes you think he can hit his heart, sasuke is faster than Kakashi now that is not debatable Kakashi is not sasuke so using him in ur arguments doesn't make much sense since the fact is sasuke is stronger than Kakashi now! 

it doesn't matter what would of happen if raiton shroud wasn't there the fact is its there. sasuke dodged one attack that's all.so i doubt Kakashi will do better.

Kakashi is not just a little slower than the Raikage ITS A FULL GAP!sasukes eyes are better than Kakashis if he couldn't follow the raikage then what hope does Kakashi have 0.

*THE ONLY thing that saved sasuke from death is sasunoo!and since Kakashi doesn't have that or a similar defense hes out of luck!*


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> What makes you think he can hit his heart, sasuke is faster than Kakashi now that is not debatable Kakashi is not sasuke so using him in ur arguments doesn't make much sense since the fact is sasuke is stronger than Kakashi now!



No proof that Sasuke is stronger than Kakashi, especially when things like Speed, Kakashi is being praised by Madara (who's over a 100 years old) wheras Sasuke is being praised by....Deidara, a long range fighter.



> it doesn't matter what would of happen if raiton shroud wasn't there the fact is its there. sasuke dodged one attack that's all.so i doubt Kakashi will do better.



He doesn't need to do better. He can pierce the shroud better than Sasuke can by dodging one attack.



> Kakashi is not just a little slower than the Raikage ITS A FULL GAP!sasukes eyes are better than Kakashis if he couldn't follow the raikage then what hope does Kakashi have 0



Kakashi's speed was praised by Madara and you're calling him slow. He's not faster than the Raikage but he's no slouch in speed. Being faster than Sasuke didn't help Raikage dodge that chidori did he?



> *THE ONLY thing that saved sasuke from death is sasunoo!and since Kakashi doesn't have that or a similar defense hes out of luck!*



Kakashi won't need susano'o. The only reason Raikage was able to grab him was because Sasuke put chidori in him and was paused there for a second. With Kakashi's raikiri, the Raikage will surely fall if Kakashi hits his heart(or his brain like he aimed for against Deva)


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> What makes you think he can hit his heart, sasuke is faster than Kakashi now that is not debatable Kakashi is not sasuke so using him in ur arguments doesn't make much sense since the fact is sasuke is stronger than Kakashi now!


I would like to see what gives Sasuke the edge in strength (physically). It's debatable that he may have more stamina than Kakashi but, I doubt that leads to him being more powerful than Kakashi.


Jodyjoe the great said:


> it doesn't matter what would of happen if raiton shroud wasn't there the fact is its there. sasuke dodged one attack that's all.so i doubt Kakashi will do better.


Unlike Sasuke, Kakashi isn't a full blown idiot who would jump at the drop of a hat to kill someone without analyzing the situation. The reason why Sasuke sucked horrifically was simply because he was stupid in the manner he approached the situation.


Jodyjoe the great said:


> Kakashi is not just a little slower than the Raikage ITS A FULL GAP!sasukes eyes are better than Kakashis if he couldn't follow the raikage then what hope does Kakashi have 0.


Umm, Sasuke didn't have trouble following Raikage, he had trouble casting genjutsu. And, Sasuke's eyes are on the same level as Kakashi's, they are both at a MS level now.


Jodyjoe the great said:


> *THE ONLY thing that saved sasuke from death is sasunoo!and since Kakashi doesn't have that or a similar defense hes out of luck!*


Yeah, the rest of Kakashi's jutsu is worthless. I mean, who needs bunshin feints, rkb's and/or kamui right?


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> No proof that Sasuke is stronger than Kakashi, especially when things like Speed, Kakashi is being praised by Madara (who's over a 100 years old) wheras Sasuke is being praised by....Deidara, a long range fighter.



What no proof CURRENT sasuke is stronger than Kakashi? lol ur kiding right? lol and madara did actually praise sasukes speed when he was pretending to be tobi.



> He doesn't need to do better. He can pierce the shroud better than Sasuke can by dodging one attack


.

The fact that hes slower will stop that from happening and him being able to pierce is just a theory really its based on it being stronger than Chidori but really has no founding it might as well get brushed off all the same.



> Kakashi's speed was praised by Madara and you're calling him slow. He's not faster than the Raikage but he's no slouch in speed. Being faster than Sasuke didn't help Raikage dodge that chidori did he?



Kakashi' speed being praised by madara  is irrelevant who cares, hes fast but no where near the raikage and you no this, also in case you didn't no the raikage wasn't trying to dodge read it again!



> Kakashi won't need susano'o. The only reason Raikage was able to grab him was because Sasuke put chidori in him and was paused there for a second. With Kakashi's raikiri, the Raikage will surely fall if Kakashi hits his heart(or his brain like he aimed for against Deva)



Well since Kakashi doesn't have the speed to pull it off it wouldn't matter, and come on u no thing like pausing don't matter *the fact that sasuke WAS only there for a second and had to be saved by sasunoo is proof enough that Kakashi wouldn't last.

RAIKAGE FTW!*


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> Kakashi has an entire point above Sasuke in taijutsu.


this means absolutely nothing.

Databook points correlate to the characters developed fighting potential.

If Kakashi has a 4 out of 5 in taijutsu it just means that he only has 1 point left of undeveloped potential.


saying that Kakashi has "a whole point above Sasuke" doesn't mean anything if Sasuke's undeveloped potential far exceeds Kakashi's...

Sasuke's 3 may be less than, equal to or greater than Kakashi's 4.

Kishimoto himself has said that the graphs aren't meant to be compared with each other.


that said the only place i can see Kakashi winning is in a thick forest were he can constantly hide and use kawarimi...hopefully he can find some way to use Kamui because the instant he gets within 5 feet of Raikage he is going to die. Raikiri isn't going to stop him.


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> what no proof sasuke is stronger than Kakashi lol ur kiding right lol and madara did actually praise sasukes speed when he was pretending to be tobi.



So how does that make Sasuke faster if they're both being praised by the same person? Difference is, Kakashi blitzed and ended up behind him, wheras Sasuke blitzed and Tobi let himself get hit, proven by the fact that he faints when he's clearly just joking around.



> The fact that hes slower will stop that from happening and him being able to pierce is just a theory really its based on it being stronger than Chidori but really has no founding it might as well get brushed off all the same.



Higher rank jutsus of the same type(chidori is A rank, raikiri is S-rank)=higher power. If you don't realize that you're a dolt. They're the same jutsu, just Kakashi took it farther.



> Kakashi' speed being praised by madara  is irrelevant who cares, hes fast but no where near the raikage and you no this, also in case you didn't no the raikage wasn't trying to dodge read it again!



Doesn't matter, in the same situation, Kakashi will rip into his shroud unlike Sasuke who barely pierced it.



> Well since Kakashi doesn't have the speed to pull it off it wouldn't matter, and come on u no thing like pausing don't matter *the fact that sasuke WAS only there for a second and had to be saved by sasunoo is proof enough that Kakashi wouldn't last.*


*

Raikage wouldn't last past raikiri. The best he could hope for is using his last breath to half-ass powerbomb Kakashi.




			RAIKAGE FTW!
		
Click to expand...


Basically just admitted your fanboying.




			this means absolutely nothing.

Databook points correlate to the characters developed fighting potential.

If Kakashi has a 4 out of 5 in taijutsu it just means that he only has 1 point left of undeveloped potential.


saying that Kakashi has "a whole point above Sasuke" doesn't mean anything if Sasuke's undeveloped potential far exceeds Kakashi's...

Sasuke's 3 may be less than, equal to or greater than Kakashi's 4.

Kishimoto himself has said that the graphs aren't meant to be compared with each other.


that said the only place i can see Kakashi winning is in a thick forest were he can constantly hide and use kawarimi...hopefully he can find some way to use Kamui because the instant he gets within 5 feet of Raikage he is going to die. Raikiri isn't going to stop him.
		
Click to expand...


Do you have proof Kishimoto said this? Not that it matters, since Kakashi's shown more feats in taijutsu anyways, and he has hype(from Naruto) and stats to back it up. Sasuke's never been a very good taijutsu fighter, wheras Kakashi fought pretty well against Hidan, Deva, and Kakuzu.*


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 25, 2009)

This is of course without taking the rest of his jutsu into account right? I mean, we've been making such a big deal about raikiri, what about his other variations to the lightning element, not to mention his water and earth? Kakashi has used several of them in tandem, especially hiding underground which has been his specialty. And if we put that aside, Kakashi still has his clone feints. Raikage isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer either, I mean, he can be easily fooled, Sasuke was just too stupid and continued to rely on hax.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> So how does that make Sasuke faster if they're both being praised by the same person? Difference is, Kakashi blitzed and ended up behind him, wheras Sasuke blitzed and Tobi let himself get hit, proven by the fact that he faints when he's clearly just joking around



i never said it MAKES HIM FASTER  u keep asking me question than answering them lol regardless if he was clearly joking around madara was impressed if he wasn't he would of never said anything thats just logic! and doesn't mattar if Kakashi got behind him its not like he was in danger so i geuss he was just joking around then too.



> Higher rank jutsus of the same type(chidori is A rank, raikiri is S-rank)=higher power. If you don't realize that you're a dolt. They're the same jutsu, just Kakashi took it farther


.

It remains to be seen if he could land a hit seeing how the raikage would be moving to fast for him and just because its S-rank doesn't mean it will connect also i realize u like to call people names i dont no if that's a side-affect of running out of argument.



> Doesn't matter, in the same situation, Kakashi will rip into his shroud unlike Sasuke who barely pierced it.



Why do u think the same situation would even happen? its obvious from the raikages statment hes full aware of Kakashis technique and its capability's so that set up of events would never even occur.



> Raikage wouldn't last past raikiri. The best he could hope for is using his last breath to half-ass powerbomb Kakashi.



Lol its obvious u have some type of bais for Kakashi from making a pathetic statement like that,which is crazy considering your placing all your hopes and dreams on his raikiri lol and that half-ass power bomb ur talking about has not left anybody alive!



> Basically just admitted your fanboying.



STOP HATING ON THE RAIKAGE FOOL but in all seriousness
Im a fanboy lol do u even read ur post Kakashis neck would be broken half way thru the fight If hes fighting the way u want him too.and no i dont have a bais for raikage it doesn't take a genius to no Kakashi wouldn't survive a real fight with the man but i suppose u think Kakashi might beat just about any body besides madara too.

RAIKAGE ftw


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## Vergil642 (Sep 25, 2009)

Kakashi's only possibility of victory here is based on the idea Raikiri is much stronger than Chidori. Although it's stronger, we don't know how much by, so we can't say that he'd easily pierce the Raiton Shroud and cause a fatal blow when he dodges say, an elbow or whatever from Raikage using his Sharingan prediction.

This really comes down to two possibilities: either Kakashi can pierce the Raiton Shroud enough to cause a fatal blow, or he can't and he gets horribly raped as a result.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

...Is this a fucking joke thread?

Raikage blitzes him and vapes his skull with a kick before he can form a coherent thought, let alone hand seals.


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## Darth (Sep 25, 2009)

Since when was Kakashi so slow?

He kept up with Deva Pain who was on par with SM Naruto. I HIGHLY doubt that Kakashi can't keep up with Raikage long enough for him to hit him with a few feints and tricks. A combination of bunshin feints + MS would probably win this battle for him. And if he manages to copy Raiton Shroud then it's practically an even bout in taijutsu as well.

Raikage fights like a fool without heeding the consequences. Kakashi fights like a tactical genius. I'm quite certain he would quickly grasp the upper hand in this fight.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

Darth said:


> Since when was Kakashi so slow?
> 
> He kept up with Deva Pain who was on par with SM Naruto. I HIGHLY doubt that Kakashi can't keep up with Raikage long enough for him to hit him with a few feints and tricks.



Kakashi's speed is tier 4.5, he's about in the same range of speed as Sasuke, probably slower. Tendou was not fast, and he only "kept up" with Sennin Naruto because his attacks take effect very quickly. In terms of movement speed, Tendou was nowhere near as fast as Sennin Naruto, and neither is Kakashi. But even Sennin Naruto pales in comparison to Raikage' speed, since Raikage left after-images against Sasuke's Sharingan, tricking him into focusing on that with his Amaterasu.



> A combination of bunshin feints + MS would probably win this battle for him.



Raikage is too fast, he will kill Kakashi before he can form any seals. Kamui simply isn't strong enough to hurt Raikage.



> And if he manages to copy Raiton Shroud then it's practically an even bout in taijutsu as well.



Nothing practically even, just Kakashi getting hosed.



> Raikage fights like a fool without heeding the consequences. Kakashi fights like a tactical genius. I'm quite certain he would quickly grasp the upper hand in this fight.



I'm quite certain he would quickly grasp a Liger Bomb @ 300km/h


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> i never said it MAKES HIM FASTER  u keep asking me question than answering them lol regardless if he was clearly joking around madara was impressed if he wasn't he would of never said anything thats just logic! and doesn't mattar if Kakashi got behind him its not like he was in danger so i geuss he was just joking around then too.



Kakashi is fast, not as fast as Raikage, but enough to not get completely blitzed, that is my point.



> It remains to be seen if he could land a hit seeing how the raikage would be moving to fast for him and just because its S-rank doesn't mean it will connect also i realize u like to call people names i dont no if that's a side-affect of running out of argument.


You have to answer yourself if you understand or not that raikiri is stronger.




> Why do u think the same situation would even happen? its obvious from the raikages statment hes full aware of Kakashis technique and its capability's so that set up of events would never even occur.


You're right, because Kakashi is smarter, stronger, and more versatile than Kakashi, and isn't an arrogant idiot either, so he'll doton and get behind Raikage .



> Lol its obvious u have some type of bais for Kakashi from making a pathetic statement like that,which is crazy considering your placing all your hopes and dreams on his raikiri lol and that half-ass power bomb ur talking about has not left anybody alive!


If he has a raikiri in his heart I doubt he's going to be killing anyone with a power bomb.




> STOP HATING ON THE RAIKAGE FOOL


Weren't you just saying not to insult people? Hypocrite


			
				Jodyjoe the great said:
			
		

> but in all seriousness
> Im a fanboy


I agree, this one is going into my sig 


> lol do u even read ur post Kakashis neck would be broken half way thru the fight If hes fighting the way u want him too.and no i dont have a bais for raikage it doesn't take a genius to no Kakashi wouldn't survive a real fight with the man but i suppose u think Kakashi might beat just about any body besides madara too.


Kakashi is one level below the highest tier of characters, Itachi, Madara, Yondaime, Sage Mode Naruto, Pein, etc, etc, etc. He's basically Hokage level himself. Fact is, it takes the highest level opponent to defeat him, and Raikage is not the opponent that I see being able to. The Raikage is an idiot. He is ruled by his emotions, rushes in, fights in a straight line and relies far too much on his brute strength and durability. Kakashi easily tricks this dumbass.

RAIKAGE ftw[/quote]


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

I also like how a bunch of people here are just assuming that Kakashi can pierce Raikage's Raiton armor by virtue of the fact that Raikiri is a higher-ranked Jutsu than Chidori.

Tru Fax: There is absolutely *not a single Goddamn thing* to prove or implicate that Raikiri is a higher-ranked move than Chidori because it is has greater penetration power. Even so, just because the technique itself is more powerful, doesn't mean that anyone who uses the one will be better than anyone who uses the other; Sasuke's feats with Chidori far, far outclass Kakashi's feats with Raikiri. So even if Raikiri _were_ the better move, Kakashi's Raikiri is not better than Sasuke's Chidori. Kakashi can't pierce Raikage's Raiton armor.

Raikage wins this fight with one blow before Kakashi even knows what hit him.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> I also like how a bunch of people here are just assuming that Kakashi can pierce Raikage's Raiton armor by virtue of the fact that Raikiri is a higher-ranked Jutsu than Chidori.
> 
> Tru Fax: There is absolutely *not a single Goddamn thing* to prove or implicate that Raikiri is a higher-ranked move than Chidori because it is has greater penetration power. Even so, just because the technique itself is more powerful, doesn't mean that anyone who uses the one will be better than anyone who uses the other; Sasuke's feats with Chidori far, far outclass Kakashi's feats with Raikiri. So even if Raikiri _were_ the better move, Kakashi's Raikiri is not better than Sasuke's Chidori. Kakashi can't pierce Raikage's Raiton armor.
> 
> *Raikage wins this fight with one blow before Kakashi even knows what hit him*.



^ Exactly  raikage rapE-stomps and thats the  goddamm end of it.

Im not about to continue debating a lowly goddamm Kakashitard of all things to be.....PLS.


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## Velocity (Sep 25, 2009)

The Raikage knows both Chidori and Kakashi's name... What does that tell you?

As many have said, Raikiri is stronger than Chidori by a long shot, Kakashi has much better taijutsu skill and he's significantly better at using the base Sharingan than Sasuke is. So there's no reason why Kakashi wouldn't do much better in a hand-to-hand fight against the Raikage than Sasuke did... 

You're also forgetting that Kakashi is a much more analytical fighter and he would undoubtedly have prior experience fighting Kumogakure ninja, meaning he wouldn't be at a total loss as to how to deal with the Raiton shroud (what if he only needed to use Suiton jutsu to make the Raiton shroud *hurt* the Raikage?) and he would probably act to disable that thing before he tried to fight the Raikage himself.

I'm also pretty sure that if he can hit a missile from Asura with Kamui, he can hit the Raikage while the guy is recovering from an attack or prepping the next.

So I give this to Kakashi, actually, since he's both strong and intelligent enough to have been a shoe-in for Sixth Hokage had Danzo not used his Sharingan to change the fact.


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> I also like how a bunch of people here are just assuming that Kakashi can pierce Raikage's Raiton armor by virtue of the fact that Raikiri is a higher-ranked Jutsu than Chidori.
> 
> Tru Fax: There is absolutely *not a single Goddamn thing* to prove or implicate that Raikiri is a higher-ranked move than Chidori because it is has greater penetration power. Even so, just because the technique itself is more powerful, doesn't mean that anyone who uses the one will be better than anyone who uses the other; *Sasuke's feats with Chidori far, far outclass Kakashi's feats with Raikiri.*



REALLY? REALLY? People believe this shit? Sasuke's "feats" with chidori include piercing through Gaara's sand defense(which could be due to elemental advantage), piercing through a water tower, going through Naruto by virtue that his arm was longer(not to mention he was heartless), and putting his fingers 1 digit into Raikage. 

Kakashi's been putting holes in people and has more useful variants. Chidori senbon has never been used after the fight with Deidara by virtue that they're worthless, since kunai can do the same thing and not use chakra. Eisou moves in a straight line, and is easily dodgable. The giant explosion raiton he uses where eisou splits into many seperate lasers is also, moving in a straight line. Compare this to Kakashi's where he has a wolf that can move according to where Kakashi wants it to move, and raiton bunshins that can move around, cast jutsus, deceive, distract, and furthermore set up Kakashi and keep him out of danger. 



> So even if Raikiri _were_ the better move, Kakashi's Raikiri is not better than Sasuke's Chidori. Kakashi can't pierce Raikage's Raiton armor.


Databook disagrees. I trust something that Kishimoto's assistance wrote better than you.



> Raikage wins this fight with one blow before Kakashi even knows what hit him.



Kakashi has hand speed only trumped by Itachi. He uses doton before Raikage knows what's going on.




> I'm also pretty sure that if he can hit a missile from Asura with Kamui, he can hit the Raikage while the guy is recovering from an attack or prepping the next



Or when he's sitting there charging up to go super saiyan... Lol.


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## Darth (Sep 25, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> Kakashi's speed is tier 4.5, he's about in the same range of speed as Sasuke, probably slower. Tendou was not fast, and he only "kept up" with Sennin Naruto because his attacks take effect very quickly. In terms of movement speed, Tendou was nowhere near as fast as Sennin Naruto, and neither is Kakashi. But even Sennin Naruto pales in comparison to Raikage' speed, since Raikage left after-images against Sasuke's Sharingan, tricking him into focusing on that with his Amaterasu.



ORLY?

this guy
this guy

I dunno. But stalling two sage KB and dodging a point blank FRS seem like mighty speed feats to me. 



Nikushimi said:


> Raikage is too fast, he will kill Kakashi before he can form any seals. Kamui simply isn't strong enough to hurt Raikage.



hmm wut? You do realize what Kamui does right? It warps things OUT OF EXISTENCE. 



Nikushimi said:


> Nothing practically even, just Kakashi getting hosed.



lol wut? Take two people with the same speed and give one of them movement prediction. Kakashi with Raiton Shroud would dominate the raikage!



Nikushimi said:


> I'm quite certain he would quickly grasp a Liger Bomb @ 300km/h



Or just warp it out of existence!


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> Kakashi is fast, not as fast as Raikage, but enough to not get completely blitzed, that is my point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ur best theory is that Raikiri well win it cause Kakashi has nothing else thats going to work with no feats and proof it well make it passed his shroud and or even make him bleed! if u have it then show it! if not don't respond


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## Darth (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Ur best theory is that Raikiri well win it cause Kakashi has nothing else thats going to work with no feats and proof it well make it passed his shroud and or even make him bleed! if u have it then show it! if not don't respond




eh, what?

Kakashi has displayed mastery over S-Rank raiton techs. And he's even manipulated that further! He could match/copy anything the Raikage throws at him. What feats or proof do you want?


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> U remind me of my lil brother always insulting ppl and complaining when they do it back.*i always tell him man up and stop acting like a lilttle bitch.*
> 
> I geuss its to help ur retarded logic.
> 
> ...



I don't even need to insult you for this. You're making yourself look bad. Raikiri will, at the very least, pierce his shroud a little bit. Especially considering that a lower rank raiton jutsu already has. Simple logic dictates this.

Kamui can't work on raiton shroud? Malarky


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> REALLY? REALLY? People believe this shit? Sasuke's "feats" with chidori include piercing through Gaara's sand defense(which could be due to elemental advantage), piercing through a water tower, going through Naruto by virtue that his arm was longer(not to mention he was heartless),



*iPod Manager for Mac*

*iPod Manager for Mac*

Lol.



> and putting his fingers 1 digit into Raikage.



That's indicative of Raikage's awesome defensive power, not Sasuke's lack of offensive power.



> Kakashi's been putting holes in people and has more useful variants. Chidori senbon has never been used after the fight with Deidara by virtue that they're worthless, since kunai can do the same thing and not use chakra. Eisou moves in a straight line, and is easily dodgable. The giant explosion raiton he uses where eisou splits into many seperate lasers is also, moving in a straight line. Compare this to Kakashi's where he has a wolf that can move according to where Kakashi wants it to move, and raiton bunshins that can move around, cast jutsus, deceive, distract, and furthermore set up Kakashi and keep him out of danger.



So he has a long-range version with virtually no penetration power that he can control the direction of and a clone that can mildly stun an opponent with a shock. Those variants aren't more useful at all, they're just different variants. Eisou can be swiped and Chidori Senbon can be sprayed all at once in greater numbers than shuriken, and probably with greater piercing power.

But this is irrelevent. We're talking about power, not variety.



> Databook disagrees. I trust something that Kishimoto's assistance wrote better than you.



The only way the databook could disagree is if it says 1.) that Raikiri has more penetration power than Chidori, 2.) that Kakashi's Raikiri is better than Sasuke's Chidori, and/or 3.) that Kakashi can pierce Raikage's Raiton armor with Raikiri. If it says none of those things, then it doesn't disagree with me, making your accusation a fallacy.



> Kakashi has hand speed only trumped by Itachi. He uses doton before Raikage knows what's going on.



Raikage was able to blitz Sasuke, who is about as fast as or faster than Kakashi, and could only protect himself with an Amaterasu-covered Susano'o. Kakashi gets cracked open like a coconut before he can even put his hands together- for seals, or for praying to God.



Darth said:


> ORLY?
> 
> this guy
> this guy
> ...



The Kage Bunshin were base, not Sennin Moodo, and the Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken was thrown from several meters away, not point-blank. Even so, Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken is not very hard to dodge, as long as you know it can expand the disk outward.



> hmm wut? You do realize what Kamui does right? It warps things OUT OF EXISTENCE.



No, it creates a hole in space and pulls them into another dimension.



> lol wut? Take two people with the same speed and give one of them movement prediction. Kakashi with Raiton Shroud would dominate the raikage!



If by "same speed" you mean "Raikage can circumvent the planet with a Raiton kick before the pain signals from Kakashi's broken spinal column reach his brain", then yes.



> Or just warp it out of existence!



Kamui's pulling force isn't strong enough to drag Raikage through against his will. He could resist it and escape it, though he wouldn't need to, because he would kill Kakashi with a Guillotine Drop at massively hypersonic speeds for Kakashi could physically even think of using it.


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## Darth (Sep 25, 2009)

Niku. You're wanking Raikage's speed far too much.. How exactly does Raikage resist Kamui's dimensional pull again? What's stopping Kakashi from opening a dimensional rift in Raikage's eye? How will Raikage know the attack is coming? Since when was Kakashi thought to be so slow that he can't duck behind a tree or block LOS with a tech and replace himself with a bunshin? Kakashi can always open gates if he needs to. And his reflexes are top tier already.

You're vastly overestimating Raikage's speed and you're underestimating Kakashi's speed even more!


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Darth said:


> Niku. You're wanking Raikage's speed far too much.. How exactly does Raikage resist Kamui's dimensional pull again? What's stopping Kakashi from opening a dimensional rift in Raikage's eye? How will Raikage know the attack is coming? Since when was Kakashi thought to be so slow that he can't duck behind a tree or block LOS with a tech and replace himself with a bunshin? Kakashi can always open gates if he needs to. And his reflexes are top tier already.
> 
> You're vastly overestimating Raikage's speed and you're underestimating Kakashi's speed even more!



Apparently Raikage can blitz anyone. Sage Mode Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, HM Jiraiya, Pein, and Madara would all fall because of...his uber speed...


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

Darth said:


> Niku. You're wanking Raikage's speed far too much..



Read the manga.



> How exactly does Raikage resist Kamui's dimensional pull again?



With his muscles.



> What's stopping Kakashi from opening a dimensional rift in Raikage's eye?



Raikage punting him into outerspace at Mach 20.



> How will Raikage know the attack is coming?



He won't, he'll just deliver a Raiton-charged Guillotine Drop to Kakashi's sternum at Mach 20 before Kakashi can use it.



> Since when was Kakashi thought to be so slow that he can't duck behind a tree or block LOS with a tech and replace himself with a bunshin?



He can't do all this before Raikage Liger Bombs him at Mach 20.



> Kakashi can always open gates if he needs to.



Not before Raikage Judo Chops him at Mach 20. Although opening Gates wouldn't make a difference anyway.



> And his reflexes are top tier already.



No.



> You're vastly overestimating Raikage's speed and you're underestimating Kakashi's speed even more!



Kakashi's speed=Sasuke's speed, roughly. They're in the same tier, and Sasuke actually has more/better feats, plus the added hype towards his speed that Kakashi doesn't have.

Raikage blitzed Sasuke. The only thing that saved Sasuke from instant death was a magical barrier he can activate on a whim.



knives907 said:


> Apparently Raikage can blitz anyone. Sage Mode Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, HM Jiraiya, Pein, and Madara would all fall because of...his uber speed...



Yes, he blitzes all of them, except for Madara, who has intangibility and can faze through his attacks at will.


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> Raikage blitzed Sasuke. The only thing that saved Sasuke from instant death was a magical barrier he can activate on a whim.



He didn't blitz shit. Sasuke charged him, he charged back, Sasuke reacted with sharingan and attacked him in the torso. If he was moving at Mach 20 and able to blitz everyone like you're saying, he wouldn't have been hit at all.



> Yes, he blitzes all of them, except for Madara, who has intangibility and can faze through his attacks at will.



Itachi as well?


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> He didn't blitz shit. Sasuke charged him, he charged back, Sasuke reacted with sharingan and attacked him in the torso. If he was moving at Mach 20 and able to blitz everyone like you're saying, he wouldn't have been hit at all.



Sasuke was using his Flesh Activation combined with Sharingan during his Chidori thrust, which puts his speed above what it usually is. Raikage came straight at him with an elbow, which was a direct-line attack and easy to anticipate with Sharingan. These are the reasons Sasuke didn't lose his head. We also saw that Raikage was able to get around behind Sasuke and force him to use Amaterasu on his Susano'o as a defensive measure.



> Itachi as well?



Itachi's speed is tier 5, and he has a lightning-timing feat. He would be able to keep up with Raikage to enough of a degree that he could fight him without getting blitzed, but I still think that even he couldn't beat Raikage without fighting smart. Raikage is the first person shown in Naruto so far (shown, not stated) who can beat Itachi in a straight-up fight when comparing only their power. Itachi's advantage is his intelligence and planning ability, which I think are what allow him to beat Raikage.

Raikage has lightspeed synapses that make him immune to Genjutsu, can dodge Amaterasu with Shunshin no Jutsu by creating after-images that draw the focus of the caster's eye, and can probably avoid Susano'o with his raw speed until it drains Itachi to death. So I think that Itachi would actually need to fight all out and use his wits more than his hax if he wants to win.


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> Sasuke was using his Flesh Activation combined with Sharingan during his Chidori thrust, which puts his speed above what it usually is. Raikage came straight at him with an elbow, which was a direct-line attack and easy to anticipate with Sharingan. These are the reasons Sasuke didn't lose his head. We also saw that Raikage was able to get around behind Sasuke and force him to use Amaterasu on his Susano'o as a defensive measure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Please. A beat up Sasuke made him lose his arm from the elbow down, and he would've ended up gimped with a single leg had Gaara let him finish Sasuke. He's not smart enough to overwhelm anyone. Kakashi dotons and Raikage. probably destroys the trees in the surrounding area until he's tired while Kakashi waits underground.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> Please. A beat up Sasuke made him lose his arm from the elbow down, and he would've ended up gimped with a single leg had Gaara let him finish Sasuke.



He sacrificed his own arm and his own leg, Sasuke took neither. You gotta do what you gotta do. This just goes to show that Raikage is a true man. He isn't afraid of anything. 



> He's not smart enough to overwhelm anyone.



He's plenty strong enough and plenty fast enough.



> Kakashi dotons and Raikage. probably destroys the trees in the surrounding area until he's tired while Kakashi waits underground.



Raikage would blitz him with some Sweet Chin Music at Mach 20 first. If Kakashi was allowed to use Doton before the fight began, Raikage would still just uproot him by his fucking hair like a Goddamn carrot, and then Kakashi would have to change his name to "Kakarrot" resulting in Kishimoto getting sued by Toriyama for copyright infringement.

Congratulations, you just got the manga cancelled. Are you happy now?


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## Reznor (Sep 25, 2009)

Well, Sasuke is more powerful than Kakashi atm.

However, Raikiri > Chidori, so it might be able to do damage, and Kakashi might be able to get in a better hit using Kage Bunshin + Sharingan dodging.

Raikage used the moves that he deemed best for fighting Sasuke, not the moves best for fighting Kakashi. Giving that he's bound to the former skillset for the fight (i.e. Battledome rules), Kakashi wins by a small margain. Although I would speculate that Raikage would actually win by a small margain.


ssjhaider said:


> well at first look, raikage seems like some overly buffed invincible dude.
> 
> but upon, scrutiny i realized that just like everyone else he has his own weakness. firstly he seems quite dull, not much thinking other than "KILL, KILL, KILL", not saying that thats not cool. secondly, sasuke was actually able to get a hit in, no 2, though the first one didnt do much, and neither did the second one. so what does that say, you either Keep hitting him where in the same spot, or you hit him with something stronger.


 It's unfair to claim that Raikage would be in that mindset. He was only that way vs. Sasuke, since Sasuke (allegedly) killed his brother.

Against an assassian, living is more important than killing the assassian (obviously)


> my, question is. with the sharingan and the mastery of raiton, can kakashi copy the raiton shroud?


 It could involve an Advanced Bloodline or more mastery than Kakashi has.

It probably needs alot of chakra.



Yokokorama said:


> With Kakashi's moveset, he _can't_ fight at full power against Gai.  Assuming its a friendly fight, Kakashi wouldn't really want to snipe Gai's head off with Kamui or impale him with a Raikiri.  While Gai's punches would definitely hurt, they can still be used in a friendly fight while still being effective.  Kamui and Raikiri cannot be used in a friendly manner at all.


 Gai also can't fight Kakashi full powered, since the gates have restrictions.


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> He sacrificed his own arm and his own leg, Sasuke took neither. You gotta do what you gotta do. This just goes to show that Raikage is a true man. He isn't afraid of anything.



If I put up a bear trap and you step on it, would you sue me for putting down a bear trap because it's my fault? Sasuke might not have directly taken his arm and almost leg, but it was definitely his doing.



> He's plenty strong enough and plenty fast enough.



If only that were everything. He's just like a powered up Gai.



> Raikage would blitz him with some Sweet Chin Music at Mach 20 first. If Kakashi was allowed to use Doton before the fight began, Raikage would still just uproot him by his fucking hair like a Goddamn carrot, and then Kakashi would have to change his name to "Kakarrot" resulting in Kishimoto getting sued by Toriyama for copyright infringement.
> 
> Congratulations, you just got the manga cancelled. Are you happy now?



Uproot him by his hair? And he's know where to find him how?


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> If I put up a bear trap and you step on it, would you sue me for putting down a bear trap because it's my fault? Sasuke might not have directly taken his arm and almost leg, but it was definitely his doing.



If I know the bear trap is there and step on it on purpose, that's my doing, just like if I ran and bashed my head against a rock, that'd be my doing, not the rock's, or anyone's who might've happened to place the rock there.

It was Raikage's action and his alone.



> If only that were everything. He's just like a powered up Gai.



Incidentally, Gai would also vape Kakashi's skull with a kick @ 300km/h. He's stronger than Kakashi. Stated.



> Uproot him by his hair? And he's know where to find him how?



He can smell fear.

Like how he found Sasuke.


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> If I know the bear trap is there and step on it on purpose, that's my doing, just like if I ran and bashed my head against a rock, that'd be my doing, not the rock's, or anyone's who might've happened to place the rock there.
> 
> It was Raikage's action and his alone.



It's joint liability. If I give you a gun and you shoot yourself, i'm in deep shit.





> Incidentally, Gai would also vape Kakashi's skull with a kick @ 300km/h. He's stronger than Kakashi. Stated.



Scan? Kakashi would murder Gai. Gai's isn't recognized, Gai isn't as strong as Kakashi, Gai isn't as versatile as Kakashi, Gai will always be second place, in the same regards that Lee is not as strong as Sasuke, Gai is not as strong as Kakashi. 



> He can smell fear.
> 
> Like how he found Sasuke.



Foolish.


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## RitenLives77 (Sep 25, 2009)

Plain and simple...Raikage is Lightning....Kakashi has SPLIT Lightning....

Kakashi has an arsenal of diffrent elements and tehcniques., Raikage up until now has show very little in that department.

Rakiri also speeds up the user's speed substantially, that's why Kakashi needed the Sharingan.  Raikage has his synapses controlled.  Either way, blow for blow, Kakshi wins, IMO


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## Darth (Sep 25, 2009)

Reznor said:


> Well, Sasuke is more powerful than Kakashi atm.
> 
> However, Raikiri > Chidori, so it might be able to do damage, and Kakashi might be able to get in a better hit using Kage Bunshin + Sharingan dodging.
> 
> ...



I would argue that Raikage would use the same skillset against practically every other ninja. Haider has a point. Raikage's line of thought isn't exactly unpredictable. He's a basic fighter who just brawls his way through everything. Against a fighter like Kakashi that's suicide.

Also, Riten brings up a fair point. Raikiri does seem to enhance Kakashi's speed. With that momentum and sharingan prediction, raikiri would be fatal to Raikage. Regardless of the shroud. And I doubt that the raiton shroud comes from an advanced bloodline. And it can't require more mastery than Kakashi's SS ranked Raikiri wolf.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

*This whole fight is point less and now to show why the buffoons trying to argue for Kakashi ARE JUST THAT BUFFOONS!well just one douche in particular.*

*How can Kakashi win WHEN IF the facts are!*

      SPEED:raikage>>Kakashi(*ppl trying to hype Kakashis speed lol hes not in the same league*)

STRENGTH:raikage>>>>Kakashi(*self explanatory hed kill him in one blow.*)

 STAMINA:raikage>>>Kakashi(*Kakashi gets tired after 4 panels get outta here!*) 

  CHAKRA:raikage>>>Kakashi (*Its fucking buiji level*)

  GENJUTSU:Wont work due to genjustu is done by manipulating the 5 senses, but the Raikages Raiton armor which stimulates his nervous system! will stop this from happening that's basic logic! 

TAIJUTSU:Kakashi gets rape stomped with cherry's on top, even if Kakashi managed to block a attack like normal the sheer force and power would crush his body ask jugo!and *he was curse seal lvl 2*

NINJUTSU:*ahh Kakashis last stand* since hes beat by a margin in everyfuckingthing else well lets look at it shall we this is where i can praise Kakashi for being the most versatile ninjustu specialist in the manga thats were he gets my true strength lies right?* not that  he has the half chakra to perform half the jutsus on his list* but having that many is impressive in indeed. 

Kakashis earth justsu wouldn't work because the raikage would just run over them  due to his Raiton armor those type of attacks will not work.

Kakashi only has one Katon:that's Great Fireball Technique which basically a waste of chakra against the Raikage who dodges Amaterasu,which comes out of thin air.not that it would take much effort.its relatively easy to avoid.

Kakashis Suiton would not faze the Raikage if he was hit lighting shroud would just conduct the water since evidently The Raikage seems to be immune to electrically shock!this is also easy to avoid even easier than Katon.

And we get to Kakashis real last stand his Raikiri right isn't that what everybody's betting his future on,if its able to pierce the raikage lol since every thing Kakashi has is useless in this fight. Raikiri piercing when Chidori couldn't is based off a theory i have nothing but facts here lol *this not the joke battle dome*lol but Raikiri would have to be able to hit its target the *raikages Shunshin no Jutsu* will stop it from ever touching like i have said the Raikage is fully aware of Kakashi Technique If he knows its dangerous to him he will just move out of the way this would not be hard for a man that moves faster than sharingan.*his body is just going to be simply moving faster than  Kakashis eyes and body can follow nothing will change this fact*.

The same rules applys to Kakashis Kamui he cant hit what he cant catch if raikage can dodge Amaterasu which comes out of thin air, why would Kamui be AN acceptation?when sasuke eyes are better than Kakashis anyway!


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## Sadgoob (Sep 25, 2009)

So the people who think Kakashi can win are the same people who think Kakashi can beat Gai with six gates. Alrighty then. That says a lot.


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## Roy (Sep 25, 2009)

This isn't even fair.


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## daschysta (Sep 25, 2009)

Illusory said:


> So the people who think Kakashi can win are the same people who think Kakashi can beat Gai with six gates. Alrighty then. That says a lot.



of course he would, he can just doton and hide until the blitz of the gates is over then kakashi stomps tired out gai.

duh


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> *This whole fight is point less and now to show why the buffoons trying to argue for Kakashi ARE JUST THAT BUFFOONS!well just one douche in particular.*
> 
> *How can Kakashi win WHEN IF the facts are!*
> 
> ...


*

...@ the bolded. .

Anyway, Kamui automatically appears on Raikage. You make it sound like it "follows" him like Amaterasu.*


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> ...@ the bolded. .
> 
> Anyway, Kamui automatically appears on Raikage. You make it sound like it "follows" him like Amaterasu.



Look at the deidara fight it needs to be focused right? raikages Shunshin no Jutsu trumps that shit its the same principle its the eyes that have to follow not the technique sasuke could not land Amaterasu because raikage was going to fast for him.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes. Look at the Deidara fight. Which was outdated 2 years ago. Lets all ignore the fight he had with Pain(which wasn't that long ago)where he Kamui'd a speeding nail and missle


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 25, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> Yes. Look at the Deidara fight. Which was outdated 2 years ago. Lets all ignore the fight he had with Pain(which wasn't that long ago)where he Kamui'd a speeding nail and missle



lol wow the missile couldn't use  Shunshin no Jutsu  like i said moving faster than sharingan! trying to focus his sight on the raikage is useless.


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## ? (Sep 25, 2009)

raikage takes this with minor difficulties.

raikage outclasses kakashi in both speed and strength, and stamina.the fact that he was able to take his own hand off with one chop tells me he could do kakashi's head just the same.unlike sasuke who had susanoo to cushion the blows, kakashi won't have such an advantage. kamui is useless in this match as raikage is too blurringly fast for sharingan to keep up with his movements meaning kakashi can't get a clear aim for kamui.

i honestly think raikage can end this in one blow.but even if not one, it still wouldn't take him long to do so.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2009)

knives907 said:


> It's joint liability. If I give you a gun and you shoot yourself, i'm in deep shit.



Only according to the law. But the law is shit. The law also says that if I set a booby trap and you spring it while robbing me, I can go to jail and have to pay you compensation. In reality, whatever decision I make of my own free will, the consequences are 100% my fault. Raikage didn't have to do what he did. Sasuke actually DIDN'T want him to do what he did, hence the whole "Amaterasu+Susano'o" combo; it was meant to be a deterrant. Raikage wasn't deterred.

There's nothing "joint" about the liability. It was Raikage's doing, 100%.



> Scan? Kakashi would murder Gai. Gai's isn't recognized, Gai isn't as strong as Kakashi, Gai isn't as versatile as Kakashi, Gai will always be second place, in the same regards that Lee is not as strong as Sasuke, Gai is not as strong as Kakashi.





What the fuck is Kakashi going to do against a green beast moving at 300km/h? He's going to do nothing, he's going to die.

"Close combact is dangerous"



> Foolish.



Raikage can smell that too, and if Kakashi's _actually_ challenging him to fight, then the stench will indeed be strong.


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## Yoko (Sep 25, 2009)

Reznor said:


> Gai also can't fight Kakashi full powered, since the gates have restrictions.



Gai specializes in Taijutsu.  He still has tons of moves at his disposal.  While Kakashi is no sucker at Taijutsu, his main attacks involve lethal ninjutsu.  Basically, Kakashi is a lot more crippled in a friendly fight than Gai is.


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## knives907 (Sep 25, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> lol wow the missile couldn't use  Shunshin no Jutsu  like i said moving faster than sharingan! trying to focus his sight on the raikage is useless.



He moves in a straight line and charged Sasuke. Kakashi won't need to change his focus.



> Only according to the law. But the law is shit. The law also says that if I set a booby trap and you spring it while robbing me, I can go to jail and have to pay you compensation. In reality, whatever decision I make of my own free will, the consequences are 100% my fault. Raikage didn't have to do what he did. Sasuke actually DIDN'T want him to do what he did, hence the whole "Amaterasu+Susano'o" combo; it was meant to be a deterrant. Raikage wasn't deterred.
> 
> There's nothing "joint" about the liability. It was Raikage's doing, 100%.



You're wrong about the law. My brother is a lawyer in training(he's finishing up law school and interning), and he says that is textbook Self Defense. As soon as you feel your life is threatened you can do whatever you need to. 

As for Raikage, he could've decided not to hit him, then he would've been hit by Sasuke's next jutsus. You're right though, he is an idiot for hitting Sasuke.

Also, I can't wait for someone to blast through raikage's shroud, and trump his speed(even though Sasuke has shown it's avoidable) so people quit hyping it.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

knives907 said:


> He moves in a straight line and charged Sasuke. Kakashi won't need to change his focus.



No he doesn't and where is your proof of this anyway i think ur thinking of killer bee!

Kakashi will lose no matter what you say his eyes aren't keeping up period.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 26, 2009)

*Re: Intelligent Fighter > Brawling Moron*



Jodyjoe the great said:


> No he doesn't and where is your proof of this anyway i think ur thinking of killer bee!
> 
> Kakashi will lose no matter what you say his eyes aren't keeping up period.


I'd like to see proof of this. Sasuke was able to predict Raikage's ultra fast movement with his sharingan, Kakashi should be able to perform the same feat, considering they are in the same speed tier. The only credit, I gave Sasuke was being able to break out of Tsukiyomi and thus proving that he can utilize his sharingan much more efficiently when it comes to genjutsu. However, we haven't seen many feats involving genjutsu when it comes to Kakashi, but that has nothing to do with predicting an attack.

The difference in this fight is going to be their approach to the situation, Sasuke's was a stupid and all around lacked strategy. He had the skill-set to defeat Raikage, but charged in without analyzing his opponent at all. You would think he would have the brains to think about how powerful or utilize something other than a direct attack, when someone like Juugo couldn't put a dent in him.

Kakashi is a strategist and an analyst, he would approach the fight completely different, Raikage would probably use the same type of techniques since he is fighting a sharingan user. However, Raikage isn't the sharpest tool in the shed either, he can be easily fooled and lacks common sense greatly, remember Amaterasu? If not for Gaara, Raikage would be dead.

All in all, Kakashi will probably outsmart or trick him with a clone feint or something of the equivalence. I don't see Raikage being able to tell the difference, from clones and if it's RKB, can you spell fucked.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> I'd like to see proof of this. Sasuke was able to predict Raikage's ultra fast movement with his sharingan, Kakashi should be able to perform the same feat, considering they are in the same speed tier. The only credit, I gave Sasuke was being able to break out of Tsukiyomi and thus proving that he can utilize his sharingan much more efficiently when it comes to genjutsu. However, we haven't seen many feats involving genjutsu when it comes to Kakashi, but that has nothing to do with predicting an attack.
> 
> The difference in this fight is going to be their approach to the situation, Sasuke's was a stupid and all around lacked strategy. He had the skill-set to defeat Raikage, but charged in without analyzing his opponent at all. You would think he would have the brains to think about how powerful or utilize something other than a direct attack, when someone like Juugo couldn't put a dent in him.
> 
> ...



Kakashi is smart but is obvious your trying to hype him up to the point of no return! 

I dont no what your really trying to get at the raikage is not stupid he attacked sasuke cause it was HIS only option!  so i dont no why you brought that up,its not like sasuke would of survived unless he can control gravity RKB is not going to due dog SHIT against his armor that's  fact.....pls

And its funny u said  Intelligent Fighter > Brawling Moron when naruto is the main character of this manga and geuss what hes not the sharpest tool in the shed lol, So that fails off rip.thats like saying shikamaru>naruto just because he can think up some smart plans and is a great strategist, The reality is naruto outclass him just like hoW the raikage outclass kakashi iTS just a difference in ability no matter what shikamaru would throw narutos way he would obviously trump cause all around hes just Superior,and the kages in general are intelligent ppl  or else they couldn't menage villages.

This is pathetic its gotten to this,kakashi wont even be able to think up any strategies cause his brain would be recovering from the coma the Raikage would put him in.

*RAIKAGE>KAKASHI just accept it i dont no why ppl are having such a hard time with that fact.*


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## knives907 (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Kakashi is smart but is obvious your trying to hype him up to the point of no return!



Agree with the first part.



> I dont no what your really trying to get at the raikage is not stupid he attacked sasuke cause it was HIS only option!  so i dont no why you brought that up,its not like sasuke would of survived unless he can control gravity RKB is not going to due dog SHIT against his armor that's  fact.....pls



He could've decided not to fight Sasuke instead of letting his emotions get to him? Hot-headed like soliozuz said.



> And its funny u said  Intelligent Fighter > Brawling Moron when naruto is the main character of this manga and geuss what hes not the sharpest tool in the shed lol, So that fails off rip.thats like saying shikamaru>naruto just because he can think up some smart plans and is a great strategist, The reality is naruto outclass him just like who the raikage outclass kakashi iTS just a difference in ability no matter what shikamaru would throw narutos way he would obviously trump cause all around hes just Superior,and the kages in general are intelligent ppl  or else they couldn't menage villages.



Naruto doesn't charge straight in. He's actually a good fighter that uses deception against his enemies. Don't believe me? He ended Kakuzu with a bunshin feint after analyzing how he was attacking. He killed Pein with the use of a lot of deception, such as sneak attacks(Asura), splitting them apart(making gama eat one to seperate him), as well as many feints. He doesn't just charge in with rasengan.



> This is pathetic its gotten to this,kakashi wont even be able to think up any strategies cause his brain would be recovering from the coma the raikage would put him in.



Like Sasuke, right? 



> *RAIKAGE>KAKASHI just accept it i dont no why ppl are having such a hard time with that fact.*



It's not fact, it's your opinion which is fine until you start acting like it is fact...


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## Nikushimi (Sep 26, 2009)

knives907 said:


> You're wrong about the law. My brother is a lawyer in training(he's finishing up law school and interning), and he says that is textbook Self Defense. As soon as you feel your life is threatened you can do whatever you need to.



Link removed

^The law is shit. If I can't pump some buckshot into a burgler with a spring-loaded booby trap to protect my property, then the law is wrong.

But this is all just a complete red herring. The fact of the matter is, what Raikage did was volitional. He could've simply waited for Sasuke to collapse and die from Mangekyou Sharingan use. He said "Fuck that" and went the more expediant route. Sure, it cost him, but there's a cost for everything.



> As for Raikage, he could've decided not to hit him, then he would've been hit by Sasuke's next jutsus. You're right though, he is an idiot for hitting Sasuke.



He's not an idiot, he's a true man. 



> Also, I can't wait for someone to blast through raikage's shroud, and trump his speed(even though Sasuke has shown it's avoidable) so people quit hyping it.



Isn't going to happen unless and until Kisame enters the battlefield, and then you're going to have a whole NEW problem on your hands.


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## knives907 (Sep 26, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> Avatar
> 
> ^The law is shit. If I can't pump some buckshot into a burgler with a spring-loaded booby trap to protect my property, then the law is wrong.
> 
> But this is all just a complete red herring. The fact of the matter is, what Raikage did was volitional. He could've simply waited for Sasuke to collapse and die from Mangekyou Sharingan use. He said "Fuck that" and went the more expediant route. Sure, it cost him, but there's a cost for everything.



Doesn't matter, you have a right to defend your property. Again, this is unimportant and getting off topic though.

It's both of their faults.





> He's not an idiot, he's a true man.



No he's an idiot. He lost an arm and almost a leg. If you feel like that's the way to be a real man go take a bath with a plugged in tv, and see what you lose 




> Isn't going to happen unless and until Kisame enters the battlefield, and then you're going to have a whole NEW problem on your hands.



Yeah, Gai coming and kicking his ass in 6 gates again. Kisame's feats aren't impressive.


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## hatakashi (Sep 26, 2009)

Taijutsu: raikage > kakashi (not by much)
Ninjutsu: Kakashi > raikage
Genjutsu: Kakashi > raikage
Inteligence: Kakashi > raikage
Versatile: Kakashi > raikage

Kakashi would analyse raikage fighting style with dome KB's and then he would create a tactic. I would say kakashi would win with very hard defficulty.

And people who are saying that guy > kakashi please....


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## mastergimmy (Sep 26, 2009)

Theres much more u havnt mentioned hatakashi

speed: raikage> kakashi(by so much)
Strength:raikage>kakashi(by so much)
genjutsu: raikage hasnt shown any feats and same with kakashi who hasnt even used genjutsu before in a proper battle apart form the time with sakura. so u cant say kakashi beats him
ninjitsu: Even if it was better, wood it help when raikage has a lightning shroud protection and enough speed to dodge any ninjitsu kakashi throws at him


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## hatakashi (Sep 26, 2009)

mastergimmy said:


> Theres much more u havnt mentioned hatakashi
> 
> speed: raikage> kakashi(by so much)
> Strength:raikage>kakashi(by so much)
> ...



Speed and Strenght are included in taijutsu but anyway.

Raikage's speed is insane but kakashi's isnt that bad

Manga proof: 
*Spoiler*: __ 








Genjutsu kakashi is pretty good at gen (go read the databook)

Manga proof: 



mastergimmy said:


> Even if it was better, wood it help when raikage has a lightning shroud protection and enough speed to dodge any ninjitsu kakashi throws at him



You are forgetting about one of the strongest justsu of the manga, Kamui no1 can dogde it because its instant and nothing can block it.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2009)

Kakashi wins. With very high difficulty.

He has a wide array of Ninjutsu. His Suiton obviously won't help, but some may slow him down. His Suiton Daibakafu(the final Suiton he used against his first fight against Zabuza) will definitely have some affect. He also has his Dotons, but unfortunately they probably won't do anything. His other choice is Raiton. Sasuke's Chidori managed to pierce Raikage's Raiton Aura. Rikari is a more concentrated version of Chidori, so that should be able to pierce the Shroud and hurt the Raikage. Badly I may add. He also has a long ranged version of Rikari. He has the Mangekyou too, which unlike Amaterasu doesn't follow the enemy. It instantly appears. And he's shown to be quite proficient with it, being able to warp a speeding nail and missile. 

Next we have his intelligence. Unlike the Raikage, he isn't a suicidal idiot that charges in because his brother was killed. No. He thinks calmly and analyses the situation carefully and makes a plan. This, coupled with his Raiton Bushin and Kage Bushin feints make him a big threat. 

Despite what people think, he's no slouch physically either. He regularly spars with a Taijutsu specialist(Gai) and Madara remarked he was fast. And he lasted for some time against Deva and Asura too. Managing to do 3-4 Rikaris, 2 Kamuis, Doton and a Raiton dog.


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## Dariustwinblade (Sep 26, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> Kakashi wins. With very high difficulty.
> 
> He has a wide array of Ninjutsu. His Suiton obviously won't help, but some may slow him down. His Suiton Daibakafu(the final Suiton he used against his first fight against Zabuza) will definitely have some affect. He also has his Dotons, but unfortunately they probably won't do anything. His other choice is Raiton. Sasuke's Chidori managed to pierce Raikage's Raiton Aura. Rikari is a more concentrated version of Chidori, so that should be able to pierce the Shroud and hurt the Raikage. Badly I may add. He also has a long ranged version of Rikari. He has the Mangekyou too, which unlike Amaterasu doesn't follow the enemy. It instantly appears. And he's shown to be quite proficient with it, being able to warp a speeding nail and missile.
> 
> ...




Exactly this ^ 



The lolspeed blitz argument is Retarded. NO HIGH level fight ever ended in a speed blitz.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> Kakashi wins. With very high difficulty.
> 
> He has a wide array of Ninjutsu. His Suiton obviously won't help, but some may slow him down. His Suiton Daibakafu(the final Suiton he used against his first fight against Zabuza) will definitely have some affect. He also has his Dotons, but unfortunately they probably won't do anything. His other choice is Raiton. Sasuke's Chidori managed to pierce Raikage's Raiton Aura. Rikari is a more concentrated version of Chidori, so that should be able to pierce the Shroud and hurt the Raikage. Badly I may add. He also has a long ranged version of Rikari. He has the Mangekyou too, which unlike Amaterasu doesn't follow the enemy. It instantly appears. And he's shown to be quite proficient with it, being able to warp a speeding nail and missile.
> 
> ...



I have already posted how this shit wont work ppl need to face it already its useless u cant debunk facts Kakashi would put up a good fight but he would get raped.The Raikage is at another lvl so stop trying to bring back up useless arguments!



> *This whole fight is point less and now to show why the buffoons trying to argue for Kakashi ARE JUST THAT BUFFOONS!well just one douche in particular.*
> 
> *How can Kakashi win WHEN IF the facts are!*
> 
> ...



And that's all folks. RAIKAGE>KAKASHI LOL MAN IM GETTING TIRED OF TYPING THAT.


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## knives907 (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> I have already posted how this shit wont work ppl need to face it already its useless u cant debunk facts Kakashi would put up a good fight but he would get raped.The Raikage is at another lvl so stop trying to bring back up useless arguments!
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all folks. RAIKAGE>KAKASHI LOL MAN IM GETTING TIRED OF TYPING THAT.



Wait... you quoted yourself, as if we didn't see your OPINIONS the first time? There's a reason that the argument is close, because it's not a stomp. If you think it is, I feel sorry for you.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> I have already posted how this shit wont work ppl need to face it already its useless u cant debunk facts Kakashi would put up a good fight but he would get raped.



You can't put up a good fight and get raped. And where is your argument? Your only argument is that "lol missles dunt du shunshin like raikage can". You think Raikage is faster than Kakashi. I'll admit he is. But not so faster that he can "lolspeedblitz" him. We've barely seen any feats of him, Sasuke was able to keep up with him. This is Kakashi. Same speed Tier. More intelligent. Your strength argument is redundant too, hell. You don't even *have* a argument. Granted, it is pretty obvious Raikage is stronger(strength-wise)but that all depends if he lands a hit. Your stamina argument is bad. Kakashi managed 4+ Rikaris and 2 Kamuis in his fight with Pain. 




> And that's all folks. RAIKAGE>KAKASHI LOL MAN IM GETTING TIRED OF TYPING THAT.



Don't type it then.


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## ssjhaider (Sep 26, 2009)

again i hear shit like, "his eyes arent keeping up". sorry dude, but let me break it to you, raikage was actually hit with chidori. and also raikage's so called "sunchin no jutsu" is a fricken genin level jutsu that everyone can perform, nothing to be too proud of.

just because some retard stated that raikage is moving faster than sharingan can follow doesnt mean it is so. also didnt kakashi fight of techniques that he couldnt see coming, like against itachi.

in this fight kakashi simply needs to escape and its all over for raikage. and with kakashi's brains and smarts plus his instantaneous doton movements, i dont really see him NOT being able to escape raikage.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 26, 2009)

For starters, Raikiri and Chidori are the same technique(stated).

The rank difference doesn't indicate anything, we got feats, so there is nothing that suggests that Raikiri is stronger than Chidori.

Although even if you assume that(which is pure speculation) then we have feats of Chidori doing some incredible shit like the scan niku posted, and we don't have a single feat of Raikiri doing similar stuff. WE can conclude that Sasuke is better than Kakashi with an inferior technique so Raikiri having a higher rank again loses its relevance.

Raikage blitzed Sasuke, who, eventhough in the same tier, has shown alot better speed feats than Kakashi, so yeah, Kakashi gets blitzed and killed with a single blow because he doesn't have a technique like Susano'o to activate on a whim. 

Seriously, I can't believe people think Kakashi would beat Raikage, he isn't even a match, Raikage can OHKO kakashi like Itachi did in a matter of seconds, with a difference that he'd do it with raw power and speed.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> You can't put up a good fight and get raped. And where is your argument? Your only argument is that "lol missles dunt du shunshin like raikage can". You think Raikage is faster than Kakashi. I'll admit he is. But not so faster that he can "lolspeedblitz" him. We've barely seen any feats of him, Sasuke was able to keep up with him. This is Kakashi. Same speed Tier. More intelligent. Your strength argument is redundant too, hell. You don't even *have* a argument. Granted, it is pretty obvious Raikage is stronger(strength-wise)but that all depends if he lands a hit. Your stamina argument is bad. Kakashi managed 4+ Rikaris and 2 Kamuis in his fight with Pain


. 

Fine than he would just get raped ,my argument? it was in my last post and no kakashi never used 2 kamuis against pein that's made up on your part he only used it once and died cause i definitely didn't ssee a second one done maybe its just me bring up the link. 

*kakashi used 3-4 Rikaris,1kaumi,1lighting hound and 1lighting shadow clone*,u can even check the fight!

so my stamina argument is right on the money 

And saying thingS LIKE if he landS a hit..pls kakashi is just not fast enough to avoid him that much is is Truth!I Sasuke was not able to keep up thats why he combined Amaterasu with susanoo in the first place to stop the raikage from attacking him!this cause OF THE FACT the raikage was moving faster than his sharingan eye. The same would happen to kakashi minus the susanoo and The black flames,hence leaving him open for the beating!



> Don't type it then.



Ok only one more time so maybe it might sink in *RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> .
> 
> Fine than he would just get raped ,my argument? it was in my last post and no kakashi never used 2 kamuis against pein that's made up on your part he only used it once and died cause i definitely didn't ssee a second one done maybe its just me bring up the link.



1 Kamui against the nail. 1 against the missile. Who's making stuff up again? 



> *kakashi used 3-4 Rikaris,*


*

1 after the Doton wall. Another one before he got Shinra Tensei'd. Another one.. One here.  One here too. 




			1kaumi,
		
Click to expand...


Two.




			1lighting shadow clone
		
Click to expand...

*


> ,u can even check the fight!



I just did.



> so my stamina argument is right on the money



Can't be a lot of money then.


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## Intus Legere (Sep 26, 2009)

I already gave my opinion on this match, I'm sure... but this will have a lot to do with when they will use their stronger cards. If Raikage go into his SSJ2 mode (in the absence of a better name - the state in which he dodged Amaterasu), Kakashi won't be able to do much - his best shot being genjutsu in this situation. If the same scene that happened with Sasuke vs Raikage (Chidori vs. Elbow) happens here, there is a chance Raikiri will work where Chidori failed.



Jodyjoe the great said:


> *RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*



Raikage isn't a numerical value, neither is Kakashi. It's pointless to say that A>B in Naruto.

Not to be a douche, but stop that, this kind of reasoning is simply void.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> 1 Kamui against the nail. 1 against the missile. Who's making stuff up again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



WELL I DID SAY 3-4 DIDNT I.

Bring up the link ABOUT THE 2 KAUMIS to back your shit up....pls


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2009)

*Sigh*

Learn to count. I provided SIX links of Kakashi using Rikari. He used Kamui against the Nail and then Kamui against the missile.

Heres your link:
 here
Pain says he used Kamui against the nail too. And we can clearly see the missile getting warped away. If you want proof that Kakashi was the one that warped it away, go back a page.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> *Sigh*
> 
> Learn to count. I provided SIX links of Kakashi using Rikari. He used Kamui against the Nail and then Kamui against the missile.
> 
> ...



OK thanks and theres 5 not six lol *sigh*i wish you would take your own advice!

now a nail and a missile vs the size and speed of the raikage thats right i didt thing so!

you said it yourself kakashi and sasuke are the same tir in speed if that true LOGICALLY there's no doubt hed lose!


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2009)

Yes. But whats to say Kakashi couldn't just instantly warp the Raikage's head off? He performed the Kamuis when he was low on Chakra.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> Yes. But whats to say Kakashi couldn't just instantly warp the Raikage's head off? He performed the Kamuis when he was low on Chakra.



lol THE fact that his sharingan would have to be able to keep up with the raikage in the first place an since we both no it wouldn't happen he would get his face bashed in!


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Kakashi is smart but is obvious your trying to hype him up to the point of no return!





Jodyjoe the great said:


> I dont no what your really trying to get at the raikage is not stupid he attacked sasuke cause it was HIS only option!  so i dont no why you brought that up,its not like sasuke would of survived unless he can control gravity RKB is not going to due dog SHIT against his armor that's  fact.....pls


You make it seem like Raikage's only option was to attack Sasuke. As I've said before, Raikage wasn't really fighting for his brother rather his own ego. I mean, honestly, he was more concerned with proving he was better than Sasuke than he was about locating his brother.



Jodyjoe the great said:


> And its funny u said  Intelligent Fighter > Brawling Moron when naruto is the main character of this manga and geuss what hes not the sharpest tool in the shed lol, So that fails off rip.thats like saying shikamaru>naruto just because he can think up some smart plans and is a great strategist, The reality is naruto outclass him just like hoW the raikage outclass kakashi iTS just a difference in ability no matter what shikamaru would throw narutos way he would obviously trump cause all around hes just Superior,and the kages in general are intelligent ppl  or else they couldn't menage villages.


First and foremost, Naruto fights intelligently and has cooled off from charging in. Naruto isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but unlike the Raikage, he listens to what the other side has stated. If anything with this Pain arc, Naruto established his maturity and level-headedness something that is to be expected of a future candidate for hokage. Whereas, Tsuchikage pretty much stated that Raikage has always been an unruly child since he was a child.

Back to the match-up, Kakashi's an intelligent fighter, much like the same reasons as to why Itachi would win, Kakashi would win solely because he would be analyze his opponent mid-battle. Kakashi also plays his opponent more times than not, if you look at every match up he has been in, against Kakuzu and Pain, he worked his strategy around Pain's ability.

For future reference, comparing characters analogously wouldn't amount to shit because A>B>C doesn't follow well in Naruto.



Jodyjoe the great said:


> This is pathetic its gotten to this,kakashi wont even be able to think up any strategies cause his brain would be recovering from the coma the Raikage would put him in.
> 
> *RAIKAGE>KAKASHI just accept it i dont no why ppl are having such a hard time with that fact.*


Raikage go to attack Kakashi, Kakashi would sense it with his sharingan predictablity and then Raikage would hit a clone. And, Kakashi would use Raikiri Dog and it would be a wrap for Raikage, Raiton armor or not, that armor is specifically designed to render genjutsu useless.

GG, Raikage


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

LOL


> You make it seem like Raikage's only option was to attack Sasuke. As I've said before, Raikage wasn't really fighting for his brother rather his own ego. I mean, honestly, he was more concerned with proving he was better than Sasuke than he was about locating his brother.



 Raikage's only option was to attack! And anybody reading the manga could see this!sasuke was completely protected!But he was not deterred!putting youR own ideas and theory's in to the plot LOL of course you are ,saying he was not fighting for his brother lol.I geuss you must be writing the manga too!



> First and foremost, Naruto fights intelligently and has cooled off from charging in. Naruto isn't the sharpest tool in the shed but unlike the Raikage, *he listens to what the other side has stated*. If anything with this Pain arc, Naruto established his maturity and level-headedness something that is to be expected of a future candidate for hokage. Whereas, Tsuchikage pretty much stated that Raikage has always been an unruly child since he was a child.
> 
> Back to the match-up, Kakashi's an intelligent fighter, much like the same reasons as to why Itachi would win, Kakashi would win solely because he would be analyze his opponent mid-battle. Kakashi also plays his opponent more times than not, if you look at every match up he has been in, against Kakuzu and Pain, he worked his strategy around Pain's ability.
> 
> For future reference, comparing characters analogously wouldn't amount to shit because A>B>C doesn't follow well in Naruto.



Notice what i have bolded i dont no what you mean by that,( "he listens to what the other side has stated") what does that mean!

Trying to bring up naruto maturity and level-headedness dont make me laugh he still gets his pants wet when he thinks about sasuke and he still runs head first in things just like when madara recently appeared! sure naruto  maturity and level-headedness has gone up but its not great!there no use in trying to hype that too in order to suit your needs!





> Raikage go to attack Kakashi, Kakashi would sense it with his sharingan predictablity and then Raikage would hit a clone. And, Kakashi would use Raikiri Dog and it would be a wrap for Raikage, Raiton armor or not, that armor is specifically designed to render genjutsu useless.
> 
> GG, Raikage



Raikage go attack kakashi,Kakashi would sense it *But is to slow to avoid due to Raikage being faster than Sharingan!* and Raikage hit kakashi in his face breaking his neck. And,kaksahi would fall down and die!

Also the Raiton armor is designed specifically to render attack in general
useless genjustu is a bonus!


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> Raikage's only option was to attack! And anybody reading the manga could see this!sasuke was completely protected!But he was not deterred!putting youR own ideas and theory's in to the plot LOL of course you are ,saying he was not fighting for his brother lol.I geuss you must be writing the manga too!



The Raikage's only option wasn't to only attack. Sasuke wasn't aiming to fight him. And what's "deterred"? 




> Trying to bring up naruto maturity and level-headedness dont make me laugh he still gets his pants wet when he thinks about sasuke and he still runs head first in things just like when madara recently appeared!



That wasn't a real fight. And this was different. The Raikage is a lot more hot headed than Naruto. Naruto can analyze his opponents carefully with Kage Bushins. 



> sure naruto  maturity and level-headedness has gone up but its not great!there no use in trying to hype that too in order to suit your needs!



The Raikage's isn't great either.




> Raikage go attack kakashi,Kakashi would sense it *But is to slow to avoid due to Raikage being faster than Sharingan!* and Raikage hit kakashi in his face breaking his neck. And,kaksahi would fall down and die!



When was Raikage faster than Sharingan?

Heres mine:

Raikage hits a Kage Bushin. The ground underneath him cracks, and Kakashi uppercuts him with Rikari in hand.

GG Raikage.



> Also the Raiton armor is designed specifically to render attack in general
> useless genjustu is a bonus!



How do you know that?


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> The Raikage's only option wasn't to only attack. Sasuke wasn't aiming to fight him. And what's "deterred"?



Deterred:To prevent or discourage from acting, as by means of fear or doubt!




> When was Raikage faster than Sharingan?



*Sigh*


Its useless to debate it! and dont bring it back up!



> Heres mine:
> 
> Raikage hits a Kage Bushin. The ground underneath him cracks, and Kakashi uppercuts him with Rikari in hand.
> 
> GG Raikage.



nice one but considering the facts you and i know it would be like! 

Raikage hits a Kage Bushin.The ground underneath him cracks And Kakashi uppercuts him *with his face* meeting the Raikages Superior speed and strength! putting dead back in the ground like hes a moll-rat!



> How do you know that?



Sasukes Chidori failing to pierce The Raikage



Sasukes Kusanagi Sword: Chidori powered Katana failing to STAB the Raikage



AND Raiton armor stimulates his nervous system! in order ofr genjutsu to work all 5 sense are needed  Raiton armor prevents this! 

*Nice try it still stands raikage>kakashi!*


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## KingBoo (Sep 26, 2009)

raikage wins this easily. he's like a fast tank. kakashi won't be able to keep up with him, and will just be chopped or power bombed.

raikage = tsunade's strength + speed + illusion immunity


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## knives907 (Sep 26, 2009)

> *Sigh*
> 
> 
> Its useless to debate it! and dont bring it back up!


That was his opinion. Clearly Sasuke showed otherwise, so I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. In the same way Naruto said Kakashi was smarter than Shikamaru, and better at Taijutsu than Lee, he was using it as a hyperbole to suggest he's very smart and good at taijutsu. The raikage is the same, his movement is very fast, and C THINKS(HIS OPINION) that Raikage is fast enough to move quicker than the sharingan.




> nice one but considering the facts you and i know it would be like!
> 
> Raikage hits a Kage Bushin.The ground underneath him cracks nd Kakashi uppercuts him *with his face* meeting the Raikages Superior speed and strength! putting dead back in the ground like hes a moll-rat!



A mall-rat? lawling.



> Sasukes Chidori failing to pierce The Raikage



Not the same thing.



> Sasukes Kusanagi Sword: Chidori powered Katana failing to STAB the Raikage



Stated to be weaker than the original chidori, so again, not the same thing.



> AND Raiton armor stimulates his nervous system! in order ofr genjutsu to work all 5 sense are needed  Raiton armor prevents this!
> 
> *Nice try it still stands raikage>kakashi!*



Your opinion, stop trying to pass it off as fact.


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## ssjhaider (Sep 26, 2009)

oh shit this is fun. especially the whole scenarios that Joe and sandaime are making about raikage blitzing.

well, THIS is what happens.

Raikage blitzes. and kakashi realizes he has no other choice, so hemake raikiri.
and THIS happens.	

faster than the sharingan MY ASS......


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## Sadgoob (Sep 26, 2009)

ssjhaider said:


> Raikage blitzes. and kakashi realizes he has no other choice, so hemake raikiri. and THIS happens.



And then THIS happens.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

knives907 said:


> That was his opinion. Clearly Sasuke showed otherwise, so I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. In the same way Naruto said Kakashi was smarter than Shikamaru, and better at Taijutsu than Lee, he was using it as a hyperbole to suggest he's very smart and good at taijutsu. The raikage is the same, his movement is very fast, and C THINKS(HIS OPINION) that Raikage is fast enough to move quicker than the sharingan.




And when did sasuke show otherwise NEVER...pls give it a rest lol it is a proven fact trying to debunk the manga now?lol its over lol just take a look.  As it was stated sharingan cant track him!

At the time Kakashi was smarter than Shikamaru and better at Taijutsu than Lee actually but that was in the *past*! 




> A mall-rat? lawling.



I thought thats what they called it!



> Not the same thing.



And just how is that! its AN attack right 



> Stated to be weaker than the original chidori, so again, not the same thing.



Its a lighting charged Katana And it bounced off him like a play thing LOL.



> Your opinion, stop trying to pass it off as fact.



*MY opinion is based on the fact that the Raikage outclass Kakashi in just about everything!and that Kakashi has nothing that can harm or catch the Raikage!*


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## knives907 (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> And when did sasuke show otherwise NEVER...pls give it a rest lol it is a proven fact trying to debunk the manga now?lol its over lol just take a look.  As it was stated sharingan cant track him!
> 
> At the time Kakashi was smarter than Shikamaru and better at Taijutsu than Lee actually but that was in the *past*!
> 
> ...



He outclasses him in taijutsu by not much, he has a speed advantage and a strength advantage, all of which only lead to him doing 1 thing. Charge charge charge, smash smash smash. 

In intelligence, ninjutsu, genjutsu(i'll admit this will be worthless against Raikage), battle strategies, deception, precision, anticipation, dodging Kakashi has him beat by a mile. Raikage misses his attacks (lack of precision) and then can't even dodge to make up for it(chidori stabbing him). He also has shown he's ruled by his emotions (lack of intelligence) and runs in(lack of any deception or battle strategy). So no, when you distort the facts to seem like Kakashi is losing out, he actually has a ton of things going for him that you won't give him credit for.


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## Koroshi (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> And when did sasuke show otherwise NEVER...pls give it a rest lol it is a proven fact trying to debunk the manga now lol its over lol just take a look.  As it was stated sharingan cant track him!
> 
> At the time Kakashi was smarter than Shikamaru and better at Taijutsu than Lee actually but that was in the *past*!



I'll give you an actual Manga Scan of Sasuke using Sharingan to dodge Raikage.



Middle-Right Panel, it's obvious Sasuke used Sharingan to evade Raikage, it was regular sharingan at that, so if Sasuke can do it, why can't Kakashi?



> And just how is that! its attack right



Raikiri is more potent than Chidori, it is the same attack except Kakashi is more experienced with it and Raikiri is more potent.



> Its a lighting charged Katana And it bounced off him like a play thing LOL.



It has been stated to been weaker than Chidori and Raikiri is at least more potent than Chidori. 



> *MY opinion is based on the fact that the Raikage outclass Kakashi in just about everything!and that Kakashi has nothing that can harm or catch the Raikage!*



Which is wrong, at best it's a 50/50 fight either one can take, Raikage has only shown brute force and speed. The only thing that he is leagues above Kakashi is brute force(Debatable).


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## Sadgoob (Sep 26, 2009)

Knives! It turns out I am a Kimimaro fanboy 



knives907 said:


> In intelligence, ninjutsu, genjutsu(i'll admit this will be worthless against Raikage), battle strategies, deception, precision, anticipation, dodging Kakashi *has him beat by a mile.*



*Genjutsu*

Kakashi doesn't excel at this. And even if he did it's worthless.

*Ninjutsu*

Raiton Armor outshines any Ninjutsu Kakashi has shown. It's close.

*Intelligence/Strategy*

I'll agree with this, although Raikage thinks his brother is killed.

*Anticipation/Dodging*

Kakashi is beat by a mile, along with Speed, Power, Stamina, Taijutsu

*Conclusion*

Your banking on Raikage being emotionally distraught for Kakashi's intelligence to be able to abuse that. And even so, you may as well pit Shikamaru against the Raikage. Kakashi has no feasible method of downing the Raikage other than his Doujutsu. I agree that he could win with Kamui, but that's his only shot and the Raikage had better not dodge it. If the Raikage has the reflexes and speed to be able to move faster than Sasuke's eyes can see at certain intervals to avoid Amatarasu then Kakashi's half baked attacks aren't going to fly and even if he lands a Raikiri it likely won't be fatal with his armor up meaning that Kakashi is going to be at the bottom of a crater, dead, with no Susano to save him.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

Illusory said:


> Knives! It turns out I am a Kimimaro fanboy
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im going with this^!


----------



## Koroshi (Sep 26, 2009)

Illusory said:


> Knives! It turns out I am a Kimimaro fanboy



Irrelevant.



> *Genjutsu*
> 
> Kakashi doesn't excel at this. And even if he did it's worthless.





"LAWL GENJUTSU" 
Raikage has not shown any defence to Genjutsu, even if he has it. He just hasn't shown it.



> *Ninjutsu*
> 
> Raiton Armor outshines any Ninjutsu Kakashi has shown. It's close.



Chidori was able to pierce ever it so slightly, so how does Raikiri (Which is at least more potent in piercing power than Chidori) not pierce it.



> *Intelligence/Strategy*
> 
> I'll agree with this, although Raikage thinks his brother is killed.



Good.



> *Anticipation/Dodging*
> 
> Kakashi is beat by a mile, along with Speed, Power, Stamina, Taijutsu



Not by a mile, at the very most he's beaten ever so slightly In Speed, Power and Taijutsu. Kakashi has shown better stamina, he did more techniques which probably require more chakra and stamina than what Raikage has shown.



> *Conclusion*
> 
> Your banking on Raikage being emotionally distraught for Kakashi's intelligence to be able to abuse that. And even so, you may as well pit Shikamaru against the Raikage. Kakashi has no feasible method of downing the Raikage other than his Doujutsu.



Doujutsu + his Ninjutsu and his strategic thinking. He has good enough to at least challenge Raikage well.



> I agree that he could win with Kamui, but that's his only shot and the Raikage had better not dodge it.



Not really. If it could catch a speeding missile, how does it not catch Raikage.



> If the Raikage has the reflexes and speed to be able to move faster than Sasuke's eyes can see at certain intervals to avoid Amatarasu



Even though Kamui has essentially the same way of hitting an opponent like Amaterasu, Kamui actually affects a set target area and warps the area away, so even if Raikage uses Shunshin to evade Kamui like he did to Amaterasu, at best his hand would be warped off.



> then Kakashi's half baked attacks aren't going to fly and even if he lands a Raikiri it likely won't be fatal with his armor up meaning that Kakashi is going to be at the bottom of a crater, dead, with no Susano to save him.



Chidori managed to pierce the armor, how does Raikiri not be able to pierce it. I do admit this match is 50/50, it won't simply be a rapestomp like some people have stated.



Jodyjoe the great said:


> Im going with this^!



I like how you didn't respond to my post.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

> I like how you didn't respond to my post.



I would be pointless i would be going back around in circles saying things i hve already stated haLF the things you have posted already is wrong!and i have proven THEM WRONG!go back and read the previous post!

*RAIKAGE>KAKASHI LOL TILL TOMRROW*


----------



## Koroshi (Sep 26, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> I would be pointless i would be going back around in circles saying things i hve already stated haLF the things you have posted already is wrong!and i have proven THEM WRONG!
> 
> RAIKAGE>KAKASHI LOL TILL TOMRROW



No you haven't done anything of the sort. 

Your argument that Raikage can "LAWL SPEEDBLITZ" is wrong by the fact that Sasuke could keep up with him and if Sasuke can. Kakashi can at least keep up with Raikage ever so slightly.

Your argument that Raikage's armor can protect him from everything is also void, by the fact that Chidori was able to pierce it and a small part of Raikage's epidermis.

Your argument that Raikage is faster than Sharingan is being debated by the fact that I showed a Manga Scan that disproved his statement.

Your argument that Raikage outclasses Kakashi in everything is also void, I have given actual manga scans, people have shown actual manga scans, while you have pnly have shown a few manga scans that I have disproved.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 26, 2009)

Koroshi said:


> No you haven't done anything of the sort.
> 
> Your argument that Raikage can "LAWL SPEEDBLITZ" is wrong by the fact that Sasuke could keep up with him and if Sasuke can. Kakashi can at least keep up with Raikage ever so slightly.




 I dont no what manga ur reading but! 



this says sasuke is unable to keep up i dont no why your trying to debunk manga fact but...pls keep going



> Your argument that Raikage's armor can protect him from everything is also void, by the fact that Chidori was able to pierce it and a small part of Raikage's epidermis.



Chidori didn't pierce him he wasn't even bleeding the fact remains 98% of kakashi ninjutsus are useless against him with two having 5% chance SUCCESS(kamui,Rikari) but then again the the raikage is to fast to be hit by either so it goes down to 0.



> Your argument that Raikage is faster than Sharingan is being debated by the fact that I showed a Manga Scan that disproved his statement.



Its not debatable you have multiple ppl stating the raikage is above sharingan eyesight!and THE scan U brought up was not the Raikages full speed!



> Your argument that Raikage outclasses Kakashi in everything is also void, I have given actual manga scans, people have shown actual manga scans, while you have pnly have shown a few manga scans that I have disproved.



lol you make this easy ill go over the facts again just for you!

*SPEED:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI* 

*STRENGTH:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*

*STAMINA:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*

*CHAKRA:RARIKAGE>KAKASHI*

*TAIJUTSU:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*

*GENJuTSU*:AND Raiton armor stimulates his nervous system! in order for genjutsu to work all 5 sense are needed Raiton armor prevents this!(*I GOT THIS FROM MY PREVIOUS POST*)

*NINJUTSU*:*ahh Kakashis last stand* since hes beat by a margin in everyfuckingthing else well lets look at it shall we this is where i can praise Kakashi for being the most versatile ninjustu specialist in the manga thats were he gets my true strength lies right?* not that  he has the half chakra to perform half the jutsus on his list* but having that many is impressive in indeed. 

Kakashis earth justsu wouldn't work because the raikage would just run over them  due to his Raiton armor those type of attacks will not work.

Kakashi only has one Katon:that's Great Fireball Technique which basically a waste of chakra against the Raikage who dodges Amaterasu,which comes out of thin air.not that it would take much effort.its relatively easy to avoid.

Kakashis Suiton would not faze the Raikage if he was hit lighting shroud would just conduct the water since evidently The Raikage seems to be immune to electrically shock!this is also easy to avoid even easier than Katon.

And we get to Kakashis real last stand his Raikiri right isn't that what everybody's betting his future on,if its able to pierce the raikage lol since every thing Kakashi has is useless in this fight. Raikiri piercing when Chidori couldn't is based off a theory i have nothing but facts here lol *this not the joke battle dome*lol but Raikiri would have to be able to hit its target the *raikages Shunshin no Jutsu* will stop it from ever touching like i have said the Raikage is fully aware of Kakashi Technique If he knows its dangerous to him he will just move out of the way this would not be hard for a man that moves faster than sharingan.*his body is just going to be simply moving faster than  Kakashis eyes and body can follow nothing will change this fact*.

The same rules applys to Kakashis Kamui he cant hit what he cant catch if raikage can dodge Amaterasu which comes out of thin air, why would Kamui be AN acceptation?when sasuke eyes are better than Kakashis anyway

*This also from my previous post*

*The only real thing kakashi has going or him is intelligence if you didnt no this means Raikage Outclasses kakashi.*

*And you have not  Disproved DOG shit

RAIKAGE>KAKASHI im out!*


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## Koroshi (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> I dont no what manga ur reading but!
> 
> 
> 
> this says sasuke is unable to keep up i dont no why your trying to debunk manga fact but...pls keep going



In some instanes he might be faster, in others he's used a predictable attack predicted by Sharingan. Notably here 


Middle-right panel and then Sasuke dodged the attack. I'm not saying Kakashi would win this one, I'm jsut stating that it would not be a rapestomp like you said it will be.



> Chidori didn't pierce him he wasn't even bleeding the fact remains 98% of kakashi ninjutsus are useless against him with two having 5% chance SUCCESS(kamui,Rikari) but then again the the raikage is to fast to be hit by either so it goes down to 0.



You're saying this(bottom-right panel) isn't blood or was able to pierce Raiton Armour.



> Its not debatable you have multiple ppl stating the raikage is above sharingan eyesight!and THE scan U brought up was not the Raikages full speed!



If it's a straight on attack like it was against Sasuke then it can be predicted, if not then Raikage can move faster for a while.



> lol you make this easy ill go over the facts again just for you!



OK



> *SPEED:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*



Not by an extremely large value, at best more faster than him until Kakashi can't react for a small moment like Sasuke.



> *STRENGTH:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*



I never said it was wrong.



> *STAMINA:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*



How is this one even debatable, Kakashi has used more techniques that require more chakra than regular techniques than Raikage. What has Raikage used that will decrease his stamina, Raiton Armour and Shunshin is all. 



> *CHAKRA:RARIKAGE>KAKASHI*



See above.



> *TAIJUTSU:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI*



I never said this was wrong.



> *GENJuTSU*:AND Raiton armor stimulates his nervous system! in order for genjutsu to work all 5 sense are needed Raiton armor prevents this!(*I GOT THIS FROM MY PREVIOUS POST*)



Genjutsu does not affect the regular body parts, it only effects the chakra system. The only way to be released from Genjutsu is to feel pain or disrupt your own Chakra System, regular body systems won't protect you against Genjutsu except for Pain Senses. I know it's stupid but it's what Kishi has written.



> *NINJUTSU*:*ahh Kakashis last stand* since hes beat by a margin in everyfuckingthing else well lets look at it shall we this is where i can praise Kakashi for being the most versatile ninjustu specialist in the manga thats were he gets my true strength lies right?* not that  he has the half chakra to perform half the jutsus on his list* but having that many is impressive in indeed.



No he isn't beaten in every other single department, the only departments that he loses against are Speed, Strength, Taijutsu. Kakashi has a slight advantage in everything else. He has displayed more techniques that use a lot more chakra than a Raiton Shroud or a simple Shunshin.



> Kakashis earth justsu wouldn't work because the raikage would just run over them  due to his Raiton armor those type of attacks will not work.



The doton in topic here is not an attack-type doton but a Support Doton used on the user him/herself not on the opponent. Raiton will not simply deactivate it.



> Kakashi only has one Katon:that's Great Fireball Technique which basically a waste of chakra against the Raikage who dodges Amaterasu,which comes out of thin air.not that it would take much effort.its relatively easy to avoid.



Filler Shit, he doesn't have a Katon.



> Kakashis Suiton would not faze the Raikage if he was hit lighting shroud would just conduct the water since evidently The Raikage seems to be immune to electrically shock!this is also easy to avoid even easier than Katon.



The suitons in question here would slow him down well enough and it is not easier to dodge than Katons.



> And we get to Kakashis real last stand his Raikiri right isn't that what everybody's betting his future on,if its able to pierce the raikage lol since every thing Kakashi has is useless in this fight.



Not everything is useless in this fight, only a few techniques won't work well enough.



> Raikiri piercing when Chidori couldn't is based off a theory i have nothing but facts here lol *this not the joke battle dome*lol but Raikiri would have to be able to hit its target the *raikages Shunshin no Jutsu* will stop it from ever touching like i have said the Raikage is fully aware of Kakashi Technique If he knows its dangerous to him he will just move out of the way this would not be hard for a man that moves faster than sharingan.*his body is just going to be simply moving faster than  Kakashis eyes and body can follow nothing will change this fact*.



Chidori pierced the armor whether you like it or not, Raikage doesn't activate Shunshin all the time and Kakashi IC is intelligent and will know when to use Raikiri properly. 



> The same rules applys to Kakashis Kamui he cant hit what he cant catch if raikage can dodge Amaterasu which comes out of thin air, why would Kamui be AN acceptation?when sasuke eyes are better than Kakashis anyway



Amaterasu has been proven to be extremely slow, Sasuke could run from it for a while without Shunshin, it's speed is not really amazing. Kamui warps everything around a set area, it will at least warp away one of Raikage's hands.



> *This also from my previous post*
> 
> *The only real thing kakashi has going or him is intelligence if you didnt no this means Raikage Outclasses kakashi.*
> 
> ...



Kakashi outclasses Raikage in Genjutsu, Ninjutsu, Intelligence, Strategic Planning, Stamina, Knowledge and yes I have not disproved DOG shit, I have disproved quite some of your claims. My stand here is not Kakashi wins but a 50/50 match where either person can win. Not Kakashi wins, not Raikage Rapestomps but an equal match.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> LOL
> 
> Raikage's only option was to attack! And anybody reading the manga could see this!sasuke was completely protected!But he was not deterred!putting youR own ideas and theory's in to the plot LOL of course you are ,saying he was not fighting for his brother lol.I geuss you must be writing the manga too!


Apparently, Raikage wanted to kill Sasuke more than finding out what happened to his brother. Not once did he ask him about his brother nor did he even entertain that thought, at all throughout the fight. He had other options, but obviously that didn't matter nor was it even brought up as a discussion standpoint.



Jodyjoe the great said:


> Trying to bring up naruto maturity and level-headedness dont make me laugh he still gets his pants wet when he thinks about sasuke and he still runs head first in things just like when madara recently appeared! sure naruto  maturity and level-headedness has gone up but its not great!there no use in trying to hype that too in order to suit your needs!


Why not? While engaging Sasuke, Raikage had the mentality of a five-year old who went on a powertrip as if someone broke his favorite toy. Kakashi would easily be able to take advantage of someone so emotional...



Jodyjoe the great said:


> Raikage go attack kakashi,Kakashi would sense it *But is to slow to avoid due to Raikage being faster than Sharingan!* and Raikage hit kakashi in his face breaking his neck. And,kaksahi would fall down and die!


The manga disagrees with you here: Raikage is not faster than the Sharingan. The only thing the sharingan can't keep up with is casting genjutsu, as we saw Raikage moves to quickly for Sasuke to attempt a genjutsu, however, if Sasuke Tsukiyomi, it would be a different story.


Jodyjoe the great said:


> Also the Raiton armor is designed specifically to render attack in general
> useless genjustu is a bonus!


The manga disagrees with you here: Genjutsu defense was primarily the reason for the Raiton Shroud. The sharingan cannot keep up because Raikage's reflexes are amplified through his Raiton Shroud. No where does it state that it increases his durability.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 27, 2009)

knives907 said:


> Doesn't matter, you have a right to defend your property. Again, this is unimportant and getting off topic though.



Yes, you have the right, but the law doesn't always recognize rights; regulations on guns, drugs, and gay marriage are proof of that.

So don't try to bring the law into this to prove a point.



> It's both of their faults.



It's Raikage's fault entirely.



> No he's an idiot. He lost an arm and almost a leg. If you feel like that's the way to be a real man go take a bath with a plugged in tv, and see what you lose



I'd lose nothing, I'd get a bad shock and probably die. But Raikage walks around with millions of volts flowing through him at any given time so he's different. Likewise, he can tolerate severing his own limbs and will sacrifice them in order to win.



> Yeah, Gai coming and kicking his ass in 6 gates again. Kisame's feats aren't impressive.



You're comparing Kisame to his 30% Shouten. Not a smart move.


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## knives907 (Sep 27, 2009)

Nikushimi said:


> Yes, you have the right, but the law doesn't always recognize rights; regulations on guns, drugs, and gay marriage are proof of that.
> 
> So don't try to bring the law into this to prove a point.



Everything has regulations. I don't see how that proves anything. You can still purchase a gun and shoot someone if they break into your property. Basic self defense.





> It's Raikage's fault entirely.



He's an idiot.





> I'd lose nothing, I'd get a bad shock and probably die. But Raikage walks around with millions of volts flowing through him at any given time so he's different. Likewise, he can tolerate severing his own limbs and will sacrifice them in order to win.



He didn't win.




> You're comparing Kisame to his 30% Shouten. Not a smart move.



70% more chakra wouldn't help him against someone he couldn't even react well and died in 1 hit to.


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## hatakashi (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> I dont no what manga ur reading but!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Kamui > raikage


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 27, 2009)

hatakashi said:


> raikage>kamui



looks like you finally agree!

raikage>kakashi


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 27, 2009)

What the hell are you talking about?
He said Kamui>Raikage. You merely edited the quote....


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 27, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> What the hell are you talking about?
> He said Kamui>Raikage. You merely edited the quote....



It was a joke im tired of going in circles its time to move on to another debate!

Everybody will have there own opinions i guess! if all kakashi stands to have is intelligence how would he beat someone WHO beats him in every-category with the acceptation of his ninjutsu which would not make a difference!

When people start to ignore manga fact to prove something that's when yoU know your debate is a lost cause among them!


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## Yoko (Sep 27, 2009)

He didn't even properly edit the post he quoted.  

The "acceptation" of Ninjutsu is a pretty big deal.  You make it sound like its something trivial.  I could say that Kakashi beats Raikage in everything with the exception of Taijutsu.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> It was a joke im tired of going in circles its time to move on to another debate!
> 
> Everybody will have there own opinions i guess! if all kakashi stands to have is intelligence how would he beat someone WHO beats him in every-category with the acceptation of his ninjutsu which would not make a difference!
> 
> When people start to ignore manga fact to prove something that's when yoU know your debate is a lost cause among them!



Hahaha...your the one ignoring manga fact. Most of us have posted scans and all you've said "LAWL RAIKAGE > KAKASHI" on top of your baseless speculation and completely misconstrued the manga to whatever fits your uncorroborated tarding of Raikage.


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## Jodyjoe the great (Sep 27, 2009)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> Hahaha...your the one ignoring manga fact. Most of us have posted scans and all you've said "LAWL RAIKAGE > KAKASHI" on top of your baseless speculation and completely misconstrued the manga to whatever fits your uncorroborated tarding of Raikage.



It sad you don't even read the previous  post before you go back and try to respond!

Making yourself seem unintelligent  this wat im talking about godamm kakashitard!

ITS LIKE YOU CAN EVEN READ! 

misconstrued the manga? WATEVER I WAS SAYING WAS ON THE FUCKING SCAN RETARD!

*and you still have not proved anything the raikage>kakashi still nothing you said held any weight!*

I have scans ppl statments wat the fuck do you have....oh waitTHATS RIGHT!


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## Yoko (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> It sad you don't even read the previous  post before you go back and try to respond!
> 
> Making yourself seem unintelligent  this wat im talking about godamm kakashitard!
> 
> ITS LIKE YOU CAN EVEN READ



I can't believe your calling people '[insert character name here]tards.'  

I've looked through the thread, and all you've said, in literally every single one of your posts, is 'Raikage >  Kakashi'.  You need to put aside your "fandom pride" in situations like this.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> It sad you don't even read the previous  post before you go back and try to respond!
> 
> Making yourself seem unintelligent  this wat im talking about godamm kakashitard!
> 
> ...


I can read and I'm quite adept at distinguishing bullshit opinion from an actual analysis. I read that blob of text you call a post, much of it didn't make sense as much of it was purely speculative and probably written while you were medicated. And because of that I can come to the correct conclusion that you don't know what your talking about. 

I'm not tarding Kakashi, but you seem to be giving Raikage an unholy landslide advantage which is unfounded. If you believe Raikage has that much of an advantage, then that's fine but don't try to bash every poster and pass off your opinion as the one and only solid point of view.


Yokokorama said:


> I can't believe your calling people '[insert character name here]tards.'
> 
> I've looked through the thread, and all you've said, in literally every single one of your posts, is 'Raikage >  Kakashi'.  You need to put aside your "fandom pride" in situations like this.


I agree, sometimes you have to swallow and accept the fact that your favorite character will lose. This is definitely one of those situations, especially considering the limited airtime and techniques we've seen from the Raikage.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> It sad you don't even read the previous  post before you go back and try to respond!
> 
> Making yourself seem unintelligent  this wat im talking about godamm kakashitard!
> 
> ...



We're not the ones being tards. YOU are. Stop overrating the Raikage so much. He's got the advantage in Taijutsu and Speed. But not by much. Sasuke's Sharingan allowed him to counter and hit him with a Chidori. The Chidori pierced the Shroud and made him bleed. Now think, this is now a person with more experience and a much more lethal Raiton. Rikari. All you've basically said in every post is "lol riakage raep stumps dis cos he is faster and riakage>kakushi". And worse still, your reasoning that Raikage can dodge Kamui is. "Lol!!! Missle dunt du sunshine no jutsu like raikage can!".


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> *and you still have not proved anything the raikage>kakashi still nothing you said held any weight!*
> 
> I have scans ppl statments wat the fuck do you have....oh waitTHATS RIGHT!


Earlier, I provided scans and demolished much of the unsubstantiated claims you made. I don't know if you read posts or if you just skim through it, but I backed my statements; I have yet to see the same of you. Here is a transcript of the post I made:


> Jodyjoe the great said:
> 
> 
> > LOL
> ...


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2009)

*LAWL KAKASHI > RAIKAGE*



Jodyjoe the great said:


> I ERASED IT but its hard trying to debate sum one with no rational sense!



Now you know how we feel when you keep going "LAWL RAIKAGE > KAKASHI"


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## Yoko (Sep 27, 2009)

Nice wall of text you posted for me Jody, but whatever.



Jodyjoe the great said:


> Sasukes Chidori failing to pierce The Raikage



Raikiri > Chidori.



> Sasukes Kusanagi Sword: Chidori powered Katana failing to STAB the Raikage



I love how you put these in the wrong order.  Sasuke uses the sword first.  Realizing it doesn't work, he uses a normal Chidori.  Thus, its safe to assume a normal Chidori has more cutting more than the sword, which brings us back to the above comparison.  



> Chidori didn't pierce him he wasn't even bleeding the fact remains 98% of kakashi ninjutsus are useless against him with two having 5% chance SUCCESS(kamui,Rikari) but then again the the raikage is to fast to be hit by either so it goes down to 0.



Chidori pierced him, and you can see his Sasuke's hand going through the skin.  Raikiri > Chidori, so expect better results.

I don't know where you got the 5% success rate, so I'll assume you pulled it out of god knows where, and I'll leave it be.



> SPEED:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI
> 
> STRENGTH:RAIKAGE>KAKASHI
> 
> ...



I absolutely love how you try and make Raikage's advantages a big deal while belittling Kakashi's.  If you didn't notice, Ninjutsu and Genjutsu are a pretty big deal.  

Kakashi has enough Stamina to fight.  In his fight against Pain, he used 5-6 Raikiri's, 2 Kamui's, a Raiton Bunshin, and various other miscellaneous techniques, like the Doton Wall.  Before you try and prove me wrong, here:

Doton Wall - before

Raikiri 1 - before
Raikiri 2 - before
Raikiri 3 (wolf) - before
Raikiri 4 - before
Raikiri 5 (arguable) - before
Raikiri 6 - before

Raiton Bunshin (uses half his chakra) - before

Kamui 1 - before
Kamui 2 - before

IMO, with Kakashi's intelligence, thats more than enough chakra to work with.

This is basically another "lolspeedblitz" post.  No fights in Naruto involving high level characters end with speed-blitzes.  The speed is initially acknowledged as incredible, but is countered with something else.



> Kakashi only has one Katon:that's Great Fireball Technique which basically a waste of chakra against the Raikage who dodges Amaterasu,which comes out of thin air.not that it would take much effort.its relatively easy to avoid.



Way to make Kakashi look bad by bringing in a _filler_, and then saying its useless.



> The same rules applys to Kakashis Kamui he cant hit what he cant catch if raikage can dodge Amaterasu which comes out of thin air, why would Kamui be AN acceptation?when sasuke eyes are better than Kakashis anyway



Because once Kamui locks on, it starts sucking in/pulling in the target, as seen in the Deidara fight here:

before

Otherwise, when Deidara saw something warping on his arm, he would have just moved it out of the way.  It was pulling his arm in, thus different from Amaterasu, and thus an "acceptation" as you say.

I'm not saying Kamui will 100% work on Raikage.  What I'm saying is that its different than Amaterasu in more ways than one.



> The only real thing kakashi has going or him is intelligence if you didnt no this means Raikage Outclasses kakashi.
> 
> And you have not Disproved DOG shit
> 
> RAIKAGE>KAKASHI im out!



Intelligence is why Shikimaru beat Hidan.  Intelligence is why Hidan unintentionally eliminated one of Kakuzu's hearts.  Intelligence is why Kakashi was fairing well against Pain, despite his hax abilities.  Intelligence is why Naruto managed to beat Pain. 

Basically, stop trying to disprove all of Kakashi's advantages, and pass them off as "lawlz".

No need to constantly reiterate "Raikage > Kakashi" in every single one of your posts.



> LOL KAKASHI TARDS!



No comment.


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## Luxiano (Sep 27, 2009)

Raikage at this distance murder Kakashi , the only scenario where i can see Kakashi winning is : beginning at long range and he is already preparing his Kamui  or seals Raikage's movements ( for few secs obviously ) with a Doton somewhat and use Kamui which is very unlikely to happen ...


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Thats fine with me!*JUST USE RATIONAL BEHAVIOR IN YOUR POST*



I AM being rational. I'm not going around in every post using un-nessacary caps.




> So i geuss *you>kishi now?* tell me whats going to happen next chapter!..oh wait!



No. Your the one making up facts, the fact is. Shi and that other guy don't have full information on Sasuke's capabilities. They have basic knowledge. They probably only know of the basic Sharingan abilities, his Mangekyou and his Katon and Raiton affinity.




> They also had intell on sasuke!=uchiha clan=sharingan!



Because knowing a person is from a specific clan is like full knowledge, ammirite?



> IM NOT ignorant WELL THAT WAS A EASY ONE!



Your not ignorant? Whatever floats your boat.  

Anyway we're getting off topic, and you still haven't provided any proof that Raikage can avoid Kamui.


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## hatakashi (Sep 27, 2009)

Sandaime said:


> Anyway we're getting off topic, and you still haven't provided any proof that Raikage can avoid Kamui.



Thats because no1 can avoid kamui...


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Caps makes you sound stupid?EVRYBODY THATS TYPES IN CAPS IS STUPID!LOL yes right!



I meant "TYPING LIKE DIS" makes you sound stupid.






> Enlighten me to what extent the Sharingan can read movements means? i cause as far as i know reading movements is reading moving movements its the final ability of basic sharingan so what your saying makes!



Simple. The two tomne Sharingan read movements, but couldn't read the KN0s. Once it got the third tomne, it had no problem. 





> did it pierce nooo!did sasuke get power bombed yesssss!!!!!!



It pierced.



> he was not trying to avoid based on the fact he knew sasuke was not going to pierce him he alone than realized when sasuke managed to get to him to a degree that it was kakashis jutsu!



He thought it was Kakashi's jutsu. The appearence between them isn't different. The level however, is. The Raikage wasn't trying to dodge anything, he was trying to elbow him. 


[QUOTEAnd you know this how? shes watching the fight as it WAS happening you need to stop with trying to debunk manga facts crap![/QUOTE]

Does she know about Chidori Senbon? Chidori Lance? Chidori Nagishi? Katon Gourkakyuu? Katon Housenka no jutsu? No. She's been hiding most of the fight too.






.


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## Yoko (Sep 27, 2009)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Thats pure speculation and if you have not read the manga right kamui is not big enough to warp the surrounding area just the raikage so if it miss it miss!



short

short

Link removed


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## hatakashi (Sep 27, 2009)

Yokokorama said:


> Link removed
> 
> Link removed
> 
> Link removed



yeah and now its instant so yeah raikage would be sucked to another dimension in a sec.


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## Hiroshi (Sep 27, 2009)

Okay I'm deleting 20+ posts from this thread, and punishments will be handled. Seriously, if it's going to lead to respond to flame/flame please try to ignore the thread or take a break from it! PM me if you have any questions.


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## EPIC (Sep 27, 2009)

I vote Kakashi. Seemingly, the Raikage only utilizes Lightning- empowered Taijutsu, thus I can only assume that he doesn't any other form of jutsu. With that in mind, I can guarantee that with his large number of jutsu, Kakashi make due with any situation. Also, Kakashi's speed is on par with the Raikage's and his sharingan is able to track the Kage's movements. 

Thus, I say that Kakashi wins this one.


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