# SJ Protagonist Vs Odin (The All Father)



## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

This catch my eye:

Link removed

I know it says Multiversal, but for the same reason is that I make this versus to see if it is true or not.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 6, 2011)

You could have asked in the MBD.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

A versus works fine too.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Odins energy waves have been felt across multiple realities and that one time he fired off a palm laser and it shook a multiverse or multiple realities or something against Seth

his battles have been felt on a multiversal scale..but if the wiki's accurate and he's been able to withstand an attack that destroys a multiverse then no Odin's not winning


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Waiting for the people that know about this game to prove if he can actually do it.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 6, 2011)

Sasaki Kojiro said:


> A versus works fine too.



Uh, no.  It doesn't.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

In the OBD, yes it does.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 6, 2011)

I'm sorry, who's the one that has no idea what the fuck they're talking about?


*Spoiler*: __ 



Hint: it's you.




Multiversal vs. skyfather does not make for a fair fight.  It makes for getting negged for pitting a popular, badass character against an opponent he cannot hope to beat.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Seems you have reading comprehension problems:



> This catch my eye:
> 
> 
> 
> *I know it says Multiversal, but for the same reason is that I make this versus to see if it is true or not.*





> *Waiting for the people that know about this game to prove if he can actually do it.*



Key word, proof.

So if you have proof please show it, if not then let the people that know about this game do it instead of posting random shit in a thread you know nothing about.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

if you wanted to test that out, you should've pitted him against another multiversal, instead of a skyfather. dandy's right


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 6, 2011)

Sasaki Kojiro said:


> Seems you have reading comprehension problems:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Since you're retarded:


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

@Luc:Maybe so, but still no one has backed up the claims of that profile so while in paper looks like a mismatch, feats haven't been brought up that support those claims.

So I am still waiting.

@Dandy: Can't see your post since you are on ignore kid.


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 6, 2011)

Butthurt rage in four posts.

Am I improving, Luc?


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

that's because no-one who plays that game (fang, ryoma) has seen this thread yet, try to hold up for proof without the whole foot-tapping demeanour 

and you certainly are, dandy, though there's nothing wrong with the basic demand for proof; the _manner_ of asking definitely needs work, though


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

That was my intention from the begining, wait for the people with knowledge to post, but as you see the one that started posting was someone who doesn't know anything about the game.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

like I said Odin has effected things on the multiversal scale before

but if this guy is an out and out multiverse buster than this a brutal and vicious curbstomp


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## ensoriki (Sep 6, 2011)

Eh I don't feel Mem Aleph's power feats were really that great.
I'd say SJ main gets his ass kicked.
Best I recall is she took a breath and the scharwaldezt (man I hate spelling things like this) or w/e shook.I wasn't impressed by her to be honest, and I think Odin would win.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> like I said Odin has effected things on the multiversal scale before
> 
> *but if this guy is an out and out multiverse buster than this a brutal and vicious curbstomp*



And that is why I put him against Odin to see if the claims about this guy are true, because if I put him against say Galactus, Multi-Eternity, Abraxas etc without knowing his power for sure, then he would get rape.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

even if he was multiversal he might still be beneath Galactus..like odin his battles have affected the multiverse..just on a vastly, vastly larger and more destructive scale 

put it to you this way Cosmic cubes can effect reality across multiple universes and so can Celestials Galactus has eaten one..and would snuff out the other like a candle in a Hurricane- so really it depends on where in that huge tier does he rank

Odin being the strongest skyfather in either big name franchise..tends to punch a bit higher above his generic weight class but he's not touching any of the above guys at all



ensoriki said:


> Eh I don't feel Mem Aleph's power feats were really that great.
> I'd say SJ main gets his ass kicked.
> Best I recall is she took a breath and the scharwaldezt (man I hate spelling things like this) or w/e shook.I wasn't impressed by her to be honest, and I think Odin would win.



can you describe their feats for me? since I'm basically flying blind here


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## King Hopper (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> even if he was multiversal he might still be beneath Galactus..like odin his battles have affected the multiverse..just on a vastly, vastly larger and more destructive scale
> 
> put it to you this way Cosmic cubes can effect reality across multiple universes and so can Celestials Galactus has eaten one..and would snuff out the other like a candle in a Hurricane- so really it depends on where in that huge tier does he rank
> 
> ...



Each layer of the Schwatrtzelt was another universe..

Shaking it means quite a lot.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> can you describe their feats for me? since I'm basically flying blind here



Yeah can you please tell us were did the FTL speed, Multiversal durability and destructive capacity came from?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

King Hopper said:


> Each layer of the Schwatrtzelt was another universe..
> 
> Shaking it means quite a lot.



Odin has done that as well again Seth

is he operating at that tier destructive capacity wise? like can he actually but more than one universe simultaneously?


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

iwd, i have to say, i don't see the point of bringing up odin 'shaking' the multiverse, or his fights being felt across it, or some permutation of that

because it's pretty well hammered down that odin is skyfather level. in the destroyer armour he's fighting galactus, so that can go up, but he is most definitely not multiversal

this 'shaking the multiverse' business is therefore not a legitimate or concrete feat at all, it's hyperbolic narration meant to enhance the reader's awe at the proceedings. it doesn't mean he can destroy a multiverse or even a universe. it's just a red herring in vs. debates


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Then that would apply to both feats, don't you think? (Odin and Aleph's)


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

i wasn't reading the other feat, but yeah, if the multiverse is just being 'shook' or something, then it's the same principle


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> iwd, i have to say, i don't see the point of bringing up odin 'shaking' the multiverse, or his fights being felt across it, or some permutation of that
> 
> because it's pretty well hammered down that odin is skyfather level. in the destroyer armour he's fighting galactus, so that can go up, but he is most definitely not multiversal
> 
> this 'shaking the multiverse' business is therefore not a legitimate or concrete feat at all, it's hyperbolic narration meant to enhance the reader's awe at the proceedings. it doesn't mean he can destroy a multiverse or even a universe. it's just a red herring in vs. debates



He's not just 'skyfather" He's been for almost thirty years the embodiment of that Tier and the strongest being in that tier and the gap between him and most of the other SF level characters is enormous. Oh, and he has consistently operated at those levels when desperate enough to make your claims of hyperbole pretty much unfounded He's been doing stuff like that since the early nineteen eighties at least.  I'm not saying he is multiversal at all in terms of destructive capacity *nowhere in my post is this said.* I'm not saying he can destroy a multiverse *I have never said this I never will say this *what I did say is that the term "multiversal" is nebulous and I would like clarification on this guys feats because if its in a capacity similar to Odin it should be close if your typical cube level and beyond level manipulation then this is going to be an undoubted rape


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

how are they unfounded?

can he destroy a multiverse? or even a universe?

if he can't, then being able to 'shake' one really means little


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## Francesco. (Sep 6, 2011)

Odin curbstomps.


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

Each dimension of the Schwarzwelt was a seperate universe created by the Goddess in her normal form. And there are nine of them, as well as the the human pocket dimension as well (not a universe as it was human derived in coordinates to isolate space-time by Jack's Squad).

Just being angry indirectly causes damage to the Schwarzwelt gestalt, and her Empty Form, she utilizes all of her powers for destruction and reality warping. She is a multiversal abstract being, the end of series Protagonist in his fully upgraded Demonica kills her.

And then faces an aspect of the God of SMT, Yahweh,  be at that point as Demiurge, a an extremely multiversal being who creates literally billions to incomprehensible universe and destroys them in an eye blink constantly, at the same time.

So yes with his Demons and himself, the Protagonist would baby shake Odin.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Lucaniel logic seems right being able to do those things (both Odin and Aleph) doesn't grant them that type of output (not saying you are saying that IWD).

Solid proof of this guy abilities would really help in this case.

@Fang: That sounds good, but can you bring scans, screen caps or somenthing to back it up?


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

And its not just influence or range IWD, its her literal power to create and destroy those universe at will in her true form, Empty Mem Aleph. The best Odin ever had was retconning the actions of his "alterego" Infinity on the 616 universe.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 6, 2011)

from what I know from people who've played the games, Mem Aleph actually created the Schwartzwelt, which is pretty much a multiverse and can shake it with her anger alone

the SJ Protag had enough power to beat her

EDIT: Welp beaten to it


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> how are they unfounded?



because its happened more than one time in a fight..its been noticed by other such beings..He's collapsed dimensions and time lines..



Lucaniel said:


> can he destroy a multiverse?



see my above post, the answer should be obvious



Lucaniel said:


> or even a universe?



he's come very close to doing this as a side effect of two of his battles and IIRC surtur was operating at that level once and Odin was able to stop him




Lucaniel said:


> if he can't, then being able to 'shake' one really means little



like i said the gap between him and most (not all) other skyfathers is like the gap between your average heavy weight champion and Mohamid Ali 

as I said at least, three or four times now if this guys a legit multi universe killer Odin is fucked beyond comprehension but underestimating the old bastard is hardly an appropriate way to go about it



Fang said:


> Each dimension of the Schwarzwelt was a seperate universe created by the Goddess in her normal form. And there are nine of them, as well as the the human pocket dimension as well (not a universe as it was human derived in coordinates to isolate space-time by Jack's Squad).
> 
> Just being angry indirectly causes damage to the Schwarzwelt gestalt, and her Empty Form, she utilizes all of her powers for destruction and reality warping. She is a multiversal abstract being, the end of series Protagonist in his fully upgraded Demonica kills her.
> 
> ...




and with this post I've got the clarification I need thanks and yup like I suspected he's a bit higher on the food chain then...

probably should of put him against the IG or mxy or lucifer or something from what your describing


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> because he's the strongest skyfather and has consistently operated at those levels when desperate enough to make your claims of hyperbole pretty much unfounded He's been doing stuff like that since the early nineteen eighties at least.
> 
> I'm not saying he is multiversal at all I'm not saying he can destroy a multiverse I have never said this I never will say this what I did say is that the term "multiversal" is nebulous and I would like clarification on this guys feats because if its in a capacity similar to Odin it should be close if your typical cube level and beyond level manipulation then this is going to be an undoubted rape





> Mem Aleph is the creator of the Schwartzwelt, the mother of all demons and the entity seeking the destruction and renewal of Humanity. For most of the game, she remains asleep in her lair Sector Horologium B9F. In the Chaos Path, the Protagonist agrees to carry out her will; in Law and Neutral Paths, he is tasked with her destruction instead.





> Mem Aleph can conceal her true form from humans, suggesting immense power. When she breathes, it causes the Schwarzwelt to tremor. At the cost of her life, she can give power to the Cosmic Eggs.



Link removed

SJ Protag fights that.



> The Schwartzwelt is a world comprised of alternate dimensions and is inhabited by demons.





> The interior of the Schwarzwelt is comprised of eight sectors, separated both by space/time coordinates and quantum variables. Each sector being controlled by a major demon with designs on destroying humanity, for various reasons according to each one's beliefs. A ninth sector was created by Jack's Squad, intent on creating a base on the Schwarzwelt for research purposes.



Link removed

The info on the Schwartzwelt is briefed on no sooner than when you start the game.


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

If its feels any better, Immortal, Odin is a fairly powerful character in Shin Megami Tensei. 

Link removed


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> from what I know from people who've played the games, Mem Aleph actually created the Schwartzwelt, which is pretty much a multiverse and can shake it with her anger alone
> 
> *the SJ Protag had enough power to beat her*
> 
> EDIT: Welp beaten to it



That isn't solid proof of this guy being Multiversal, i mean if defeating the last boss grants you that then for example Squall from FFVIII is a damn beast for surviving Ultimecia's time compression.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

characters win and loose all the time my issue was clarification allot of times a generic term like that gets tossed out and most of the times posters don't necessarily realize there's a huge gap between beings in that tier in and of themselves

but from what you are describing, my initial thoughts on this are correct its gonna be a rape. 

so what do you say five D imp level? maybe a bit higher for a good match?



Fang said:


> If its feels any better, Immortal, Odin is a fairly powerful character in Shin Megami Tensei.
> 
> Link removed



I've noticed that in allot of fictions Odin and Zeus get a boat load of props, Osiris too for some reason


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> because its happened more than one time in a fight..its been noticed by other such beings..He's collapsed dimensions and time lines..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that doesn't mean they aren't unfounded, you know, he can take out dimensions and timelines, but it doesn't extend to a multiverse



> he's come very close to doing this as a side effect of two of his battles and IIRC surtur was operating at that level once and Odin was able to stop him



was this due to the damage caused by him and his opponent or did his attack nearly destroy the universe?

and did surtur have a powerup at that point? i recall surtur being at odin's level of power; galaxy-level

and it's fine to say he's the most powerful skyfather, you can back that up, but this "shaking the multiverse" feat is misleading and meaningless. it has no concrete implications: he can't destroy a multiverse, but he can 'shake' it? in every odin versus, this is brought up as some kind of intimidation tactic, but it is a total red herring in the context of his actual power levels


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 6, 2011)

Sasaki Kojiro said:


> That isn't solid proof of this guy being Multiversal, i mean if defeating the last boss grants you that then for example Squall from FFVIII is a damn beast for surviving Ultimecia's time compression.


wasn't the canon in-universe explanation for the FFVIII party surviving Ultimecia friendship

basically the story itself telling you it's outright PIS 

so, uh, not exactly the best example to look for


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Further more where is the proof of him being FTL?


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> wasn't the canon in-universe explanation for the FFVIII party surviving Ultimecia friendship
> 
> basically the story itself telling you it's outright PIS
> 
> so, uh, not exactly the best example to look for



Probably right about this, but my point is that in games we go by cutscenes not gameplay mechanics.

For example we see Hitoshura survive a multiversal explosion in a cutscene and lucifer praising his power which proves his power, now what does this SJ guy have like this?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Sep 6, 2011)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> wasn't the canon in-universe explanation for the FFVIII party surviving Ultimecia friendship
> 
> basically the story itself telling you it's outright PIS
> 
> so, uh, not exactly the best example to look for



Pretty much, Squall was fated to win due to him being responsible for pretty much the establishment of Garden and SeeD, weird time shit and all.



> Probably right about this, but my point is that in games we go by cutscenes not gameplay mechanics.
> 
> For example we see Hitoshura survive a multiversal explosion in a cutscene and lucifer praising his power which proves his power, now what does this SJ guy have like this?



Via cutscenes and story genius.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

So any explanation of why he is FTL?
Has multiversal durability?
Has multiversal destructive power?

By explanation I mean videos/screencaps/scans the regular things you need to prove your claims.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Via cutscenes and story genius.



Sad thing you haven't post any of that genius.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> that doesn't mean they aren't unfounded, you know, he can take out dimensions and timelines, but it doesn't extend to a multiverse]



when you are getting into battles so feirce they are felt every where it means you touch the lowest step on the latter there a bit was my point and that latter is fucking huge it encompasses a boat load of characters of widely varying levels of cosmic might..was my point



Lucaniel said:


> was this due to the damage caused by him and his opponent or did his attack nearly destroy the universe?



he went blood lusted and it was a cumulative effect of several of his own attacks



Lucaniel said:


> and did surtur have a powerup at that point? i recall surtur being at odin's level of power; galaxy-level



Odin galaxy level? that's hardly the limit of his destructive capacity 



Lucaniel said:


> and it's fine to say he's the most powerful skyfather, you can back that up, but this "shaking the multiverse" feat is misleading and meaningless. it has no concrete implications: he can't destroy a multiverse, but he can 'shake' it? in every odin versus, this is brought up as some kind of intimidation tactic, but it is a total red herring in the context of his actual power levels




it is not a redherring at all it's a direct assessment of his ability while he certainly isn't blowing up multiple universes at all his ability to effect them on a much lower scale is exceptionally strong for his little corner of the sand box

at least one maybe two other (although I think Nabuu is closer to CC level than skyfather personally) skyfather levels have done this one..was pretty much smashing his enemy through reality causing all sorts of different hiccups..

the very best of them can touch that tier but by no means are they to be considered capable of performing such feats offensively no single skyfather is collapses multiple universes..at all although you can bet DBZ fans are gonna call Goku that then claim it..but like I said its not the case..but the ability to effect more than one reality with attacks and endanger universes is not unheard of..and not in any way a straw man

edit any clue what would actually be a good match for this guy? Fang? Cd? Raidouh?


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> wasn't the canon in-universe explanation for the FFVIII party surviving Ultimecia friendship
> 
> basically the story itself telling you it's outright PIS
> 
> so, uh, not exactly the best example to look for



Also its explained in Strange Journey the reason the humans in the game are capable of going toe to toe with these supernatural beings is because of their power suits being enhanced with their own divine power to become more power and evolve over time with experience and using the demons themselves to increase it.

Point in stone: The start of the game, even with these amazing pieces of technology before the "Three Wise Men" aka Uriel, Raphael, and Michael give you the Demon Summoning Program, they can't see even fodder demons, said demons slaughter your crew, and your weapons have no effect on them and you can't even keep up with them.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

You keep typing info, but you don't bring nothing to back it up.....



> So any explanation of why he is FTL?
> Has multiversal durability?
> Has multiversal destructive power?
> 
> By explanation I mean videos/screencaps/scans the regular things you need to prove your claims.



Easy as cakes.


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

The information from the dialogue and narration was already shoved in your face.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Sep 6, 2011)

Fang said:


> *Also its explained in Strange Journey the reason the humans in the game are capable of going toe to toe with these supernatural beings is because of their power suits being enhanced with their own divine power to become more power and evolve over time with experience and using the demons themselves to increase it.
> *
> Point in stone: The start of the game, even with these amazing pieces of technology before the "Three Wise Men" aka Uriel, Raphael, and Michael give you the Demon Summoning Program, they can't see even fodder demons, said demons slaughter your crew, and your weapons have no effect on them and you can't even keep up with them.



In the Protagonist's case, his suit is customized to high heaven. What with demonic items powering him up and all. And IIRC, the power of his suit was used by Arthur to destroy the Schwartzwelt.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> when you are getting into battles so feirce they are felt every where it means you touch the lowest step on the latter there a bit was my point and that latter is fucking huge it encompasses a boat load of characters of widely varying levels of cosmic might..was my point
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well, this is my point. that means nothing. saying x was felt by so many people in so many realities all over means nothing. could you use it as a feat in a vs. thread? nope. so it's really just empty hyping

and yep, sorry, multi-galaxy, high skyfather, whatever. not abstract and definitely not multiversal.

it _is_ a red herring. because it's not a direct assessment of his ability. hell, i'm pretty sure SBP punching that wall was 'felt' across all realities, and actually caused retcons, doing actual damage. but no-one would claim he's universe level because that is really a meaningless feat.

if people want to say odin is exceptionally strong for a skyfather, they have actual feats they can use to show that. this 'shaking the multiverse' nonsense is meaningless and by virtue of being a huge red herring, actually hurts their cause because it casts doubt on the integrity of their debate

and i didn't mention a strawman anywhere


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Fang said:


> The information from the dialogue and narration was already shoved in your face.



any clue on what would be a good match for these characters they look pretty high on the food chain.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Fang said:


> The information from the dialogue and narration was already shoved in your face.



So where did it say he is FTL? and has multiversal power?

I mean come on you haven't post a single cutscene, screencap or scan and you expect me to believe you?

When you make this type of claims you have to be ready to back them up, but instead you keep posting pieces of info about the game without anything to back them up.


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> In the Protagonist's case, his suit is customized to high heaven. What with demonic items powering him up and all. And IIRC, the power of his suit was used by Arthur to destroy the Schwartzwelt.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UlZDOieUVY&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]



			
				Mem Aleph said:
			
		

> HUMAN....HAAAAAAAAAAH....*HOW MUCH POWER HAVE YOU GAINED*....? HAAAAAAAH...BUT YOU CANNOT...CREATE...A FUTURE....A....FUTURE....


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> well, this is my point. that means nothing. saying x was felt by so many people in so many realities all over means nothing. could you use it as a feat in a vs. thread? nope. so it's really just empty hyping



when your busting dimension blinding watchers and shaking realities its suggestive of being able to bring to bear way, way more than mere Galaxy busting



Lucaniel said:


> and yep, sorry, multi-galaxy, high skyfather, whatever.



lowest tier universal 

[





Lucaniel said:


> not abstract and definitely not multiversal.



hey it's a good thing no ones ever claimed that then



Lucaniel said:


> it _is_ a red herring. because it's not a direct assessment of his ability. hell, i'm pretty sure SBP punching that wall was 'felt' across all realities, and actually caused retcons, doing actual damage. but no-one would claim he's universe level because that is really a meaningless feat.



you know what the difference is? SBP went up to the nexus of all realities a place where even a normal person could he get there..do exactly what prime did by sort of "pressure pointing reality"

Odin SHAZAM and Nabuu (and again I am dubious on calling this monster a skyfather) have all done what I'm describing under their own power with no such circumstances 



Lucaniel said:


> if people want to say odin is exceptionally strong for a skyfather, they have actual feats they can use to show that. this 'shaking the multiverse' nonsense is meaningless and by virtue of being a huge red herring, actually hurts their cause because it casts doubt on the integrity of their debate



when your fights effect multiple realities and universe it *is* worth mentioning maybe you aren't getting my original point which was tossing out a generic term..can be not helpful to determining a fight at all..and clarification is required details matter in fights

this thread is a prime example of that a lack of Details meant Sasaki's griping seemed some what legit when information was provided..the sheer gap in power completely invalidated his premise..and this thread


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Fang said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UlZDOieUVY&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]



why. oh why put something like this up against a skyfather..


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

Because the OP is trying to troll, Immortal. And very badly like that.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> why. oh why put something like this up against a skyfather..



Simple, cuz he's an idiot.

And is currently redder than a commie.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Fang said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UlZDOieUVY&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]



Nowhere it proves that he is FTL, the part of being able to tank Mem Aleph's attacks and thus having multiversal durability is gameplay mechanics, the most you can say is that he has multiversal destructive power.

So where is the part of him being FTL and having multiversal durability ?

Odin being massively FTL and this guy not having the durability or the speed to keep up with him makes it obvious that Odin wins.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> when your busting dimension blinding watchers and shaking realities its suggestive of being able to bring to bear way, way more than mere Galaxy busting
> 
> 
> 
> ...



look at the words you're using. "suggestive", "effect" (well i assume you mean affect) - these are vague words because the feat is vague and meaningless. in a fight with a character who had feats equal to odin except for lacking "multiverse shaking", that feat would not give odin the fight. because it means nothing

you say it's useful to establish a more specific level of power for him than 'skyfather', but it's actually misleading, because affecting a multiverse implies multiversal power, which he does not have

he has plenty of feats of beating other skyfathers and good showings against galactus, those are perfectly usable, this 'shaking the multiverse' is just hyperbolic nonsense which can't prove anything. you say it's needed for 'clarification of the details' but it doesn't clarify anything, it actually muddles the issue.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 6, 2011)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Simple, cuz he's an idiot.
> 
> And is currently redder than a commie.



More like you people wank the shit out of this series and implying my rep means somenthing, lol kids.


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

Anyone else just getting "blub blub" from Saskai's post?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 6, 2011)

Sasaki Kojiro said:


> Nowhere it proves that he is FTL, the part of being able to tank Mem Aleph's attacks and thus having multiversal durability is gameplay mechanics, the most you can say is that he has multiversal destructive power.
> 
> So where is the part of him being FTL and having multiversal durability ?
> 
> Odin being massively FTL and this guy not having the durability or the speed to keep up with him makes it obvious that Odin wins.



wouldn't it be common sense to assume he actually has that kind of durability, otherwise he'd have been smashed faster than Phenomenol's "arguments"

somehow, I don't see a major glass cannon like you're describing lasting long against Mem Aleph


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## Unlosing Ranger (Sep 6, 2011)

Just ban the troll.


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

A supreme abstract/supernatural/divine entity who can create a multiversal dimension and can damage the component universes in her base form indirectly by being angry not going full out in her stronger form against you and your team of demons seems pretty dumb.

Almost as dumb as the nature of the match here.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> look at the words you're using. "suggestive", "effect" (well i assume you mean affect) - these are vague words because the feat is vague and meaningless. in a fight with a character who had feats equal to odin except for lacking "multiverse shaking", that feat would not give odin the fight. because it means nothing]



what the hell are you talking about? even ignoring the lack of destructive capabilities that feat tells us allot- 1, his power can permeate multiple realities meaning certain defenses just aren't going to matter against it, 2, that his range is pretty crazy and lastly that he can bypass certain tiers of durability 



Lucaniel said:


> you say it's useful to establish a more specific level of power for him than 'skyfather', but it's actually misleading, because affecting a multivers



no where am I saying he needs to move up a level it is how ever useful in establishing his preexisting tier



Lucaniel said:


> implies multiversal power, which he does not have



no because multiversal power in the context you are using it means 'the ability to demolish multiple universes" of course not

but the ability to project power across more than just a single universe? claiming this is meaningless is no



Lucaniel said:


> this 'shaking the multiverse' is just hyperbolic nonsense which can't prove anything. you say it's needed for 'clarification of the details' but it doesn't clarify anything, it actually muddles the issue.



it hardly muddles an issue unless some moron comes in and tries to abuse it to claim the guy can rumble with an IG wielder or mxy or something- which can be easily dealt with


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## Fang (Sep 6, 2011)

I always took Odin's two or three multiversal feats like this:

The fight with Seth was causing psychic after effects across the multiverse, and they were fighting on different levels of existence.

His death was felt by the Living Tribunal, who monitors and watches over the Marvel Multiverse, its a testament to his power and influence as well as legacy that as small as his death was in the grand scope of things, the LT would actually pay respect by seeing it.

He exists on multiple levels and planes of reality and existence, he can see and deal with those things and can even effect the universe, although not like or on the scale of things like a Cube being. His however normal showing is destroying and creating on a multi-galaxy scale.

In comparison, not only does Mem Aleph do similar she also creates and destroys on said scale. Which is why she is a true abstract/multiversal being, where as Odin isn't. Byakuran or whatever that douche's name from KHR existed multiversally but he is a nobody in terms of actual power.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> what the hell are you talking about? even ignoring the lack of destructive capabilities that feat tells us allot- 1, his power can permeate multiple realities meaning certain defenses just aren't going to matter against it, 2, that his range is pretty crazy and lastly that he can bypass certain tiers of durability
> 
> 
> 
> ...



iwd if i went through cosmic arcs in comics and collected every narrative claim like "the force of their battle caused ripples across the multiverse" and so on i'd be here all day, and the subjects of those claims would in many cases not deserve them, either

his range _isn't_ pretty crazy because these are the ripples of the fight being caused by the universes being connected. they're an unintentional side-effect. they don't prove that he could reach through and attack someone universes away

maybe he could and has; but that 'feat' doesn't prove it

where am i saying _you_ said he needs to move up one? i'm just saying the same thing you said, it's done to specify. and my point is it specifies nothing.

he isn't projecting power across a single universe, the power emitted by him is shaking the fabric which binds reality, and thus causing ripples. he isn't consciously attacking someone in another universe.

and you know that is actually going to happen


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> iwd if i went through cosmic arcs in comics and collected every narrative claim like "the force of their battle caused ripples across the multiverse" and so on i'd be here all day, and the subjects of those claims would in many cases not deserve them, either]



in these cases though its backed up 



Lucaniel said:


> his range _isn't_ pretty crazy because these are the ripples of the fight being caused by the universes being connected. they're an unintentional side-effect. they don't prove that he could reach through and attack *someone universes away*



umm yes he can, of course depending on the power of said being that'll either end in a win for the old man or the swiftest pwning any high tier has ever received. 



Lucaniel said:


> maybe he could and has; but that 'feat' doesn't prove it



no that particular palm blast feat does not other stuff does that 



Lucaniel said:


> where am i saying _you_ said he needs to move up one? i'm just saying the same thing you said, it's done to specify. and my point is it specifies nothing.



it specifies and backs up that when he consciously wants to he can affect things over a very impressive range more than most people in his class



Lucaniel said:


> ]he isn't projecting power across a single universe, the power emitted by him is shaking the fabric which binds reality, and thus causing ripples. he isn't consciously attacking someone in another universe.



no but he can or he can just bamph himself into that universe and fuck shit up really he has options




Lucaniel said:


> and you know that is actually going to happen



naww new comers with comic knowledge aren't that...crazy..oh wait Matta clatta tired that strange..never mind



Fang said:


> I always took Odin's two or three multiversal feats like this:
> 
> The fight with Seth was causing psychic after effects across the multiverse, and they were fighting on different levels of existence.
> 
> ...



that's a pretty good summation of whats what actually.

that reminds me wasn't there a Baykuran vs Odin or Zeus shitstorm here a while back?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 6, 2011)

well, there was a Byakuran in Marvel thread a while back


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> well, there was a Byakuran in Marvel thread a while back



that sounds like it ended well


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 6, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that sounds like it ended well





see for yourself


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 6, 2011)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> see for yourself



that went so well for him


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 6, 2011)

OP is a dumbass and as expected from a SMT hero to be multiversal.


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## zenieth (Sep 6, 2011)

well that was a fun read. reminded me of elru


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