# Did Hinata surpass Neji?



## Meat (Feb 25, 2016)

It seems like Neji is her benchmark and we have 2 canon materials that show her growth: War Arc and The Last. I'd say that she already surpassed Neji in The Last. But in fairness to Neji, he died young and not able to enhance his jutsu. What do you think?



*Spoiler*: __ 



Inb4, some insecured guys mentioning Sakura again in a Hinata thread. She has nothing to do with Hinata's growth and Neji.


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## Dr. White (Feb 25, 2016)

Idk about the last but Neji even in CE arc could use Kaiten and 64 palms with major fluidity. Doing all of that without instruction. Hinata barely managed 64 palms in the War Arc IIrc and never showed Kaiten.


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## LazyWaka (Feb 25, 2016)

^Yeah, the war arc, if anything just emphasized how far behind Hinata was from Neji.


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## Young Lord Minato (Feb 25, 2016)

No; Neji was always more skilled in the clan techniques


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## shade0180 (Feb 25, 2016)

Hinata wasn't even his equal in the war arc..

Neji was using 64 palm right after and during Chuunin exam
Hinata only achieved it at the war arc.

She might have surpassed Neji in the last but that's only because Neji died and stagnated..


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## Meat (Feb 25, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> Idk about the last but Neji even in CE arc could use Kaiten and 64 palms with major fluidity. Doing all of that without instruction. Hinata barely managed 64 palms in the War Arc IIrc and never showed Kaiten.



She got the lion version which is equal if not better with Neji's 64 palm. It even pushed Pein backwards.


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 25, 2016)

Meat said:


> She got the lion version which is equal if not better with Neji's 64 palm. It even pushed Pein backwards.



It did?

[sp=manga page][/sp]

It looks like Pain just avoided it until he decided to say fuck it.

I guess dodging by walking backwards equates to pushing a person.

What makes you say that lion fist is > Neji's 64 palm, when Hinata was struggling to pull off the latter in the War.


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

In clan techniques during the war? No, since she didn't appear to know Kaiten, though her 64 Palms with Lion Fist > Neji's due to it being a combo of two techniques.

In endurance and Byakugan strength? Yes. Neji was hospitalized from Byakugan overuse early on during the war while Hinata continuously kept using her Byukugan up until the Madara shit, including standing watch at night.


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## Trojan (Feb 25, 2016)

Probably she did. Neji was not anything special really...


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 25, 2016)

It'd be a shame if she didn't even when neji was jobber tier ever since part 2. But in the war arc she was struggling to do shit he did as a genin.

As a adult all she does is house chores so no point in discussing that version of her.


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## Kyrie Eleison (Feb 25, 2016)

I'd have to imagine that Hinata eventually surpassed Neji due to the sheer virtue of outliving him but Neji remained more competent in both general shinobi attributes as well as clan techniques while the two were both alive (even if he was largely relegated to being inconsequential to the plot up until the moment of his unnecessary death).


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> In clan techniques during the war? No, since she didn't appear to know Kaiten, though her 64 Palms with Lion Fist > Neji's due to it being a combo of two techniques.
> 
> In endurance and Byakugan strength? Yes. Neji was hospitalized from Byakugan overuse early on during the war while Hinata continuously kept using her Byukugan up until the Madara shit, including standing watch at night.



Because he was fighting harder!

What a complete lie dude. He only died in the first place because her ass couldn't keep up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Because he was fighting harder!


That's...your conjecture. Not once was it implied he was fighting harder and we clearly saw them fighting back to back the entire time. Both were using Byakugan for the same amount of time. We saw her refuse rest when her teammates were telling her to take a break the rest of the night, while Neji was recovering. That should tell you enough. 



> What a complete lie dude.


What am I lying about?  



> He only died in the first place because her ass couldn't keep up.


No, he died because he chose to shield both Naruto and Hinata from harm, after Hinata attempted to shield Naruto, who couldn't move, from harm. It's that simple.


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## shade0180 (Feb 25, 2016)

> He only died in the first place because her ass couldn't keep up.



this, also because Kishi forgot Kaiten can deflect those sticks.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> That's...your conjecture. Not once was it implied he was fighting harder and we clearly saw them fighting back to back the entire time. We saw her refuse rest when her teammates were telling her to take a break the rest of the night, while Neji was recovering. That should tell you enough.
> 
> 
> What am I lying about?
> ...



No, it's a fact. He was actively on the front lines at a consistent basis all throughout that war. Kiba and Tenten even commented on it. He was fighting too hard and not affording himself proper rest.

His stamina. He had far greater chakra reserves than Hinata's, whose of which were unremarkable. Especially for her lineage. 

Yes, because she couldn't use her own clan's technique that could repel the attacks themselves, right after he had expended his own stamina. 

You ridiculously try to glorify Hinata, often trying to downplay other characters in doing so. It's completely absurd.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No, it's a fact. He was actively on the front lines at a consistent basis all throughout that war. Kiba and Tenten even commented on it. He was fighting too hard and not affording himself proper rest.


So was Hinata. Every moment we saw Neji fighting, Hinata was right there with him. 

Shino commented Hinata wasn't affording herself proper rest either when she stayed up at night to watch their perimeter, but she still lasted up until Madara. 



> His stamina. He had far greater chakra reserves than Hinata's, whose of which were unremarkable. Especially for her lineage.


The war arc disagrees, as she was shown to have greater stamina than Neji. 



> Yes, because she couldn't use her own clan's technique that could repel the attacks themselves, right after he had expended his own stamina.


Both Hinata and Neji were shown using the Air Palm to repel attacks  

If you're talking about Kaiten, firstly, Naruto was there. Secondly, you speak as though Kaiten isn't a difficult technique that only master or talented Hyuga can use at a young age. 



> You ridiculously try to glorify Hinata, often trying to downplay other characters in doing so. It's completely absurd.


What? How am I downplaying Neji or glorifying Hinata by merely stating a fact: Hinata was shown to outlast Neji in stamina during the war. This is simple fact. I didn't even say she was stronger than him, just better endurance. This shit about me downplaying anybody is projection, because I'm not the one downplaying right now 

Also, riddle me this, when did you ever give a shit about Neji anyway? Your defensiveness of Neji comes cross as a way to project your dislike for Hinata.  



shade0180 said:


> this, also because Kishi forgot Kaiten can deflect those sticks.


How could he have safely used Kaiten when Hinata and Naruto were right in his general area? They would've been caught in his attack


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## -Ziltoid- (Feb 25, 2016)

Neji was jonin, wasn't he? And iirc Hinata remained chunin, so....


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## Meat (Feb 25, 2016)

In terms of battle experience:

Hinata fought:

Genin Neji
Pein
Toneri
Possibly Momoshiki


Neji fought:

Genin Hinata
Genin Naruto
That sound 4 guy
fake Kisame


So Hinata win in this dept.


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## Arles Celes (Feb 25, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Probably she did. Neji was not anything special really...



Wasn't he hyped as the ultimate Hyuuga prodigy? The one who inherited the talent of the Hyuuga clan and could learn the clan's secret techniques on his own?

Hinata needed till the end of the War to be able to learn a jutsu that Neji could use in the Chuunin exams(Eight Trigrams Sixty Four Palms).


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## Toph (Feb 25, 2016)

Not now, not ever.



			
				HoroHoro said:
			
		

> Hinata being able to beat up nearly all of Konoha 11? That's fucking arrogant and delusional for a character who lost all her fights and is only a Chunin by the time she is a full-grown adult woman with a husband and children.
> 
> Hinata being Neji's equal? Please, the databooks'll beg to differ, according to the databooks, Part 1 Neji is still stronger than Hinata by the very end of the series. His Byakugan was so perfect and pure even Hiashi noted that by time, Neji'll surpass him. He learned all of the Hyuga Main House's secret techniques by himself when no one supported him. He was the first among Konoha 11 to reach Jonin. Neji is the true Byakugan Princess, Hinata is just some privileged phony who got everything handed to her on a silver platter.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kurama (Feb 25, 2016)

They have the same potential.

Neji was more finesse based, closing tenketsu and using kaiten, while Hinata was more power based, as she couldn't see tenketsu until Part 2. Neji has a more versatile defensive arsenal (kaiten, full body blow), whereas Hinata has better offense (twin lion 64 palms, Hamura chakra buffer). Hinata's byakugan range and stamina in shown to eclipse her jounin cousin, as she's on a scouting/tracking team as opposed to Neji's heavy combat team. I'd still consider Neji's taijutsu to be superior.

What's with all this nonsense about Hinata only being equivalent to 12 year old Neji? Yet she's fighting back to back with _18 year old jounin_ Neji with her father, the man who once deemed her a failure, stating them as equals? Yes, Neji learned 64 palms and Kaiten as a genin. He was also motivated by grief to defy his own fate, and he was a prodigy. Hinata had her own issues she needed to overcome, believing in herself, before she could reach her full potential, which occurs in the War Arc (until The Last). Same as Neji has Kaiten and Hinata doesn't, Hinata has Twin Lion Fist and Neji doesn't. Her struggle to complete 64 palms simply emphasizes just how difficult the technique is on the body. Hinata completes it in whats likely her first time using it in actual battle, and then proceeds to combine it with TLF. It doesnt matter that Neji could do this or that at a younger age.


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## Zensuki (Feb 25, 2016)

No. Hinata in the War arc was only able to perform jutsus, Neji could do as a genin and this is while Neji was a branch member. Furthermore, Hinata was chunin at this point while Neji was a jounin (first from the K11 I believe). 

Hinata as an adult has little to no feats, especially feats that would put her above Neji.


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## Yagami1211 (Feb 25, 2016)

The same way Naruto surpassed his father because he died lol.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2016)

This is classic "woobie effect". People wanna see a pretty much pitiful character succeed so badly they inflate every little thing they do and play them up at being a level of ability that they never had.

This shit isn't even new. I remember when people claimed that "Hinata stood toe-to-toe" with Neji or "had him on the ropes" in their fight during the Chunin Exams.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Seto Kaiba said:


> *strawman*


Ok.

To think you got like this after I said Hinata was better than Neji at _one _thing, which said nothing about the fact that he's indisputably a better fighter.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> So was Hinata. Every moment we saw Neji fighting, Hinata was right there with him.



No we did not. Only in the latter parts of the war. 



> Shino commented Hinata wasn't affording herself proper rest either when she stayed up at night to watch their perimeter, but she still lasted up until Madara.



Wow. 

Watching.

Strenuous activity clearly on the level of continuous combat. 



> The war arc disagrees, as she was shown to have greater stamina than Neji.



Nothing displayed that. As a matter of fact, everything displayed that Neji had become that much stronger than Hinata. You're trying to make things up to hype Hinata, and you do so while trying to downplay other characters.



> Both Hinata and Neji were shown using the Air Palm to repel attacks



A move that Neji invented, and could use to greater effect. This is a weak argument. 



> If you're talking about Kaiten, firstly, Naruto was there. Secondly, you speak as though Kaiten isn't a difficult technique that only master or talented Hyuga can use at a young age.



Hey.

Guess who wasn't a Main Branch member that mastered in childhood?

Hint: It wasn't Hinata. 



> What? How am I downplaying Neji or glorifying Hinata by merely stating a fact: Hinata was shown to outlast Neji in stamina during the war. This is simple fact. I didn't even say she was stronger than him, just better endurance. This shit about me downplaying anybody is projection, because I'm not the one downplaying right now



You're not stating a fact. You're letting your emotional investment in her delude you into buying into your own made-up hype around her.

The truth of the matter is she struggled with techniques as a teenager that he had already shown proficiency in at a young age. He had greater displays of stamina and technique during the war that she did not show at all. 

You can't accept that so you try to take away SOMETHING from Neji to rationalize your position, which frankly has no basis to it at all. 



> Also, riddle me this, when did you ever give a shit about Neji anyway? Your defensiveness of Neji comes cross as a way to project your dislike for Hinata.



I've always liked Neji. Yet this is what I mean before, you have far greater emotional investment in Hinata, and this is what makes you irrational on the topic.

Also, thanks for the neg. Only making my point here.


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## Finalbeta (Feb 25, 2016)

Neji is still stronger than her at the end of manga


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 25, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Wasn't he hyped as the ultimate Hyuuga prodigy? The one who inherited the talent of the Hyuuga clan and could learn the clan's secret techniques on his own?
> 
> Hinata needed till the end of the War to be able to learn a jutsu that Neji could use in the Chuunin exams(Eight Trigrams Sixty Four Palms).





-Ziltoid- said:


> Neji was jonin, wasn't he? And iirc Hinata remained chunin, so....



All this makes me want Neji to have lived so that he could have been the Reincarnation of Hamura by the time the Last showed up.









–snip–


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## Zensuki (Feb 25, 2016)

Neji by all accounts should of lived. He would of actually took lead of the Hyuuga clan, surpassed Hiashi and changed the system 

–snip–


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Neji by all accounts should of lived.* He would of actually took lead of the Hyuuga clan,* surpassed Hiashi and changed the system


I would have liked Neji to live, but this is fanfiction. 

Hanabi was still the chosen heiress and the daughter of the head. Even if Neji hadn't died, Hanabi would have still been the eventual clan head, as she was next in line from a lineage and political standpoint. 

–snip–


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 25, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Neji by all accounts should of lived. He would of actually took lead of the Hyuuga clan, surpassed Hiashi and changed the system



Would have been cool if Neji took the spotlight in the Last by making it Neji(Hamura Reincarnation) vs Toneri.

It would have been much more special if Neji beat Toneri and spares him because they both came from a Branch Clans serving a Main Branch.

Neji would have seen Toneri as a parallel to himself in a way, with how Toneri's Branch family destroyed the Main Branch, much like how Neji himself tried to kill Hinata back in the Chunnin Exams.


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## Zensuki (Feb 25, 2016)

–snip–



Raniero said:


> I would have liked Neji to live, but this is fanfiction.
> 
> Hanabi was still the chosen heiress and the daughter of the head. Even if Neji hadn't died, Hanabi would have still been the eventual clan head, as she was next in line from a lineage and political standpoint.
> 
> ...



The entire point being the Hyuuga political system of the old would be abolished via Neji challenging Hiashi so no main branch favouritism. Neji would become the strongest Hyuuga and lead the clan. Hanabi would be no match.


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> The entire point being the Hyuuga political system of the old would be abolished via Neji challenging Hiashi so no main branch favouritism.


This is some nice fanfiction. Unfortunately for you, it doesn't match what's actually in the manga.

Ignoring the fact that Hiashi alluded to the main branch favoritism no longer being a thing anymore, I don't think you understand how Japanese clans work  Even if it was all a single branch, by virtue of being the head's daughter, Hanabi would be the next head. And not once did Neji hint that he planned to challenge Hiashi or overthrow the main branch, especially since Hiashi apologized and admitted that the main branch was at fault and Neji forgave him. 

Also, did you imply Neji would beat down his younger half sister and forcefully take her position?  Neji being an adviser to Hanabi or her right hand is the more likely conclusion for Neji if he had lived. 

–snip–


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## Trojan (Feb 25, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Wasn't he hyped as the ultimate Hyuuga prodigy? The one who inherited the talent of the Hyuuga clan and could learn the clan's secret techniques on his own?
> 
> Hinata needed till the end of the War to be able to learn a jutsu that Neji could use in the Chuunin exams(Eight Trigrams Sixty Four Palms).



In part 1 when he was relevant? Yes.
In part 2 where he was an irrelevant fodder? Nah


- It does not matter really. At the end of the day she learned it and modified it with her Lion fists.

Also, your argument would have made sense if Neji learned that jutsu, and then moved on to a stronger jutsu
and Hinata kept being in the dust. However, that did not happen and Neji did not learn anything new. So, what does it matter
if he could use it before her?


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 25, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> The entire point being the Hyuuga political system of the old would be abolished via Neji challenging Hiashi so no main branch favouritism. Neji would become the strongest Hyuuga and lead the clan. Hanabi would be no match.



Stop pushing your fanfics on other people man, pfft.

Abolishing the system is, like, totally what Neji wanted to do, stop being so realistic with your posts.:ignoramus

It hurts to see what Neji would have become if he lived on.


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Stop pushing your fanfics on other people man, pfft.
> 
> Abolishing the system is, like, totally what Neji wanted to do, stop being so realistic with your posts.:ignoramus
> 
> It hurts to see what Neji would have become if he lived on.


Changing the system is what Neji wanted to do. Challenging Hiashi, overthrowing the main branch, and forcing his way to clan head position is not what Neji wanted to do though. For being Neji fans, you guys don't seem to understand the character


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## Zensuki (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Changing the system is what Neji wanted to do. Challenging Hiashi, overthrowing the main branch, and forcing his way to clan head position is not what Neji wanted to do though. For being Neji fans, you guys don't seem to understand the character



Challenging Hiashi is simply to show the new generation surpassing the old, old ways being changed, a motif used throughout the manga. No one said anything about overthrowing, simply removing the main branch favouritism: side branches have seals on them therefore inequality. Forcing =/ challenging. Maybe I should neg you for strawmans


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Challenging Hiashi is simply to show the new generation surpassing the old, old ways being changed, a motif used throughout the manga. No one said anything about overthrowing, simply removing the main branch favouritism: side branches have seals on them therefore inequality. Forcing =/ challenging.


With the way you worded it, it sure sounded like it. This still doesn't match up with canon, like I said above, and the favoritism isn't a thing either, as Hiashi said Neji and Hinata were fighting as equals and it was no longer the fate of the Branch Family to protect the Main Family. Neji challenging Hiashi and Hanabi post-Fate angst sounds extremely OOC 

And that old and busted, played-out motif doesn't need to be forced on every little thing in the manga. Especially since nobody but Naruto and Sasuke actually succeeded in surpassing previous generations and they needed cheat codes for that. 



> Maybe I should neg you for strawmans


Lay one on me


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Changing the system is what Neji wanted to do. Challenging Hiashi, overthrowing the main branch, and forcing his way to clan head position is not what Neji wanted to do though. For being Neji fans, you guys don't seem to understand the character



Challenging by surpassing him in power.

Overthrowing the main branches rules about needing the cage bird seal on all Branch members, is still overthrowing the main branch, but a more civil way to do it.

If the cage bird seal was abolished then the Hyuuga clan would have to have gone through some kind of political turmoil because of it and Neji could very well have been accepted/voted in as a new heir to the head due to him being the cause of this political change that the branch clans would support him.

Kind of like how Naruto became Hokage after getting the support of the people and being acknowledged by his ranking superiors.


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## Toph (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Changing the system is what Neji wanted to do. Challenging Hiashi, overthrowing the main branch, and forcing his way to clan head position is not what Neji wanted to do though. For being Neji fans, you guys don't seem to understand the character



I don't think _you_ understand the character behind Neji, at all. Your posts are similar to Sawyer7mage's commentaries on how Neji died willingly for the Main House, and that's his character development arc. And there I started to think Sawyer never cared about the character in the first place. Neji went from someone who was angry at a predestined life of servitude to a subservient dog by the end of the series. Neji was pissed off about his clan's archaic and unfair caste system and traumatized by his father's death, Neji was all about fate. He believed you couldn't defy fate, and that you can't deviate from the path set out before your birth. But Naruto showed him that yes, it _is_ indeed possible to change fate, with hard work, and determination, and Neji vowed to do better, by his cousin and everyone else around him. He wanted to end the oppression of the Hyuga and get the Branch members to be able to choose their _own_ fate, nowhere did anyone suggest Neji had to overthrow Hiashi to abolish the Hyuga clan's caste system.

Too bad his character got shat on when Naruto, the kid who told him you can fight fate, turned out to be the child of destiny. Destiny exists, Neji was always right. He's just wrong to believe in Naruto's bullshit.


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Challenging by surpassing him in power.
> 
> Overthrowing the main branches rules about needing the cage bird seal on all Branch members, is still overthrowing the main branch, but a more civil way to do it.
> 
> ...


Some serious assumptions, many unsupported, need to be made here.

Firstly, Neji showing interest in being the main head? Never has. Secondly, Hanabi. Would she be okay with being kicked out of the position she's trained her entire life for? Would Neji, who cares a great deal for his family, be willing to do that to her? Thirdly, we have no idea where Neji or Hanabi stand within the clan as far as "popularity" or support goes, especially compared to each other. Lastly, the status of the main bird seal is completely unknown. It may not even be a thing anymore. 

Again, this is all delving straight into fanfiction territory.



HoroHoro said:


> IYour posts are similar to Sawyer7mage's commentaries on how Neji died willingly for the Main House, and that's his character development arc.


I don't recall making that statement. 

In fact, I think Neji's character arc was cut short. 



> *He wanted to end the oppression of the Hyuga and get the Branch members to be able to choose their own fate*, nowhere did anyone suggest Neji had to overthrow Hiashi to abolish the Hyuga clan's caste system.


Yes, the bolded I never disagreed with. But what _was _being implied that being head would have been the ultimate conclusion for his character and it was something he apparently wished for, when that just does not match up with the manga. Being clan head and helping to change the Hyuga system is not mutually exclusive.


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## Zensuki (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> With the way you worded it, it sure sounded like it. This still doesn't match up with canon, like I said above, and the favoritism isn't a thing either, as Hiashi said Neji and Hinata were fighting as equals and it was no longer the fate of the Branch Family to protect the Main Family. Neji challenging Hiashi and Hanabi post-Fate angst sounds extremely OOC
> 
> And that old and busted, played-out motif doesn't need to be forced on every little thing in the manga. Especially since nobody but Naruto and Sasuke actually succeeded in surpassing previous generations and they needed cheat codes for that.
> 
> ...



The inequality was there as long one branch had seals inflicted upon them. 
No, you are just making it seem like Neji's challenge is out of spite. It won't be. Neji is respectful.
Considering, there was some foreshadowing in the beginning and the Hyuuga clan issue is still unresolved, I would say its fine.

Nah, I don't see the point in the negs. If I have something critical to say about a post, I will reply to it. Reps make more sense since you don't want the forums full of "well done" posts.


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 25, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> Too bad his character got shat on when Naruto, the kid who told him you can fight fate, turned out to be the child of destiny. Destiny exists, Neji was always right. He's just wrong to believe in Naruto's bullshit.



Ehhh, I can see why people see it that way, but for me if Naruto ever gave up he would have become a failure like his fate originally was.

Hashirama failed to bring about peace as a transmigrant because he gave up on trying to save Madara himself and settled for the easier way out by settling to save Madara's dream, Konoha.

Naruto goes on about this with Obito, but the point to take away from it was that at any point Naruto decides to take the easy way he will fail.

Naruto had the MC buff for him so him being the Child of Prophecy who would change the Ninja World, didn't really affect me that much I guess compared to other people.

That title was given to Minato too, but he still died, if he was the MC however.


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## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> The inequality was there as long one branch had seals inflicted upon them.


Agreed and it seemed like the clan was heading in the direction to abolish the seal. Unfortunately, Kishimoto is a hack and stopped giving a shit about the Hyuga, that the most he hinted towards any change near the end of the manga was a throwaway two page conversation between Hiashi and Hizashi. We have no idea _what _changed by the time of the Boruto movie or who even is the clan head.  

I'm assuming it would be naive to hope there will be some elaboration in the upcoming manga  



> No, you are just making it seem like Neji's challenge is out of spite. It won't be. Neji is respectful.
> Considering, there was some foreshadowing in the beginning and the Hyuuga clan issue is still unresolved, I would say its fine.


There was never any "foreshadowing" of Neji becoming the main head nor did he express any interest in it. So I just can't agree to this line of thought. 

Plus, unlike others, I actually think Hanabi deserves her shot as clan head, as it's something she's trained for since she was a toddler. And I think Neji himself would respect that and help advise her, rather than take the position himself. 



> Nah, I don't see the point in the negs. If I have something critical to say about a post, I will reply to it. Reps make more sense since you don't want the forums full of "well done" posts.


But a forum full of "your post sucks" posts and long winded arguments as to why you disagree with a post is better? 

I think we could all use a bit of positivity don't you think?


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## Zensuki (Feb 25, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> Too bad his character got shat on when Naruto, the kid who told him you can fight fate, turned out to be the child of destiny. Destiny exists, Neji was always right. He's just wrong to believe in Naruto's bullshit.



Wrong.

Fate was always in Naruto's hand even if he had the nine tails, Asura chakra and the 4th as a father. If Naruto gave up at numerous points in the story things would be different. Heck the whole Indra and Asura feud, destined to go on for generations ended due to Naruto's will and Sasuke's acceptance. 

Of course there are circumstance out of your hand, but the one's Neji was referring to were not.


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Firstly, Neji showing interest in being the main head? Never has.



How else would Neji try to change the clan politically?

Ask them nicely or get to a position that members must start to bring attention to the issue?

After being influenced by Naruto, what way would Neji most likely decide to do?



Raniero said:


> Secondly, Hanabi. Would she be okay with being kicked out of the position she's trained her entire life for? Would Neji, who cares a great deal for his family, be willing to do that to her?



Does she have a choice in the matter if Neji is better than her or the majority decides Neji over her?

Naruto must feel like such a dick for taking the Hokage position away from Kiba.

Would the Neji, who cares a who cares a great deal for his family, decide his family should still continue to suffer and be branded with the bird seal because he might hurt the feelings of his little cousin?



Raniero said:


> Thirdly, we have no idea where Neji or Hanabi stand within the clan as far as "popularity" or support goes, especially compared to each other.



Sure, the guy who was praised as a Genius, being really strong, mastered jutsu Main branch only could use, and had hype in the Chunnin Exam Finals, isn't popular.

Sure the guy who freed/fighting for them from generations of oppression isn't gonna draw any support, how silly.

Looks like Neji has at least something going for him via political backing/voice.



Raniero said:


> Lastly, the status of the main bird seal is completely unknown. It may not even be a thing anymore.



Even more reasons why Neji would gain support for his movement or becoming Clan Head.


----------



## Punished Kiba (Feb 25, 2016)

No. She Hasn't.

She's still the weakest on Team 8


----------



## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> How else would Neji try to change the clan politically?


By working together with the clan head? Much like the Senate and House of Representatives works with the President.  



> Ask them nicely or get to a position that members must start to bring attention to the issue?


Above. The current head at the time, Hiashi, seemed very open to change by the war. And we have no reason to believe Hanabi shares the same views as the older members of the Main Branch. 



> After being influenced by Naruto, what way would Neji most likely decide to do?


Uh, can you please stop purposely being obtuse. It makes intelligently discussing anything with you kind of difficult. 



> Does she have a choice in the matter if Neji is better than her or the majority decides Neji over her?


Are you assuming Neji doesn't care what she feels or would be against working with her? That sounds OOC for Neji post-Chunin Exams. I'm actually kind of appalled how people are so quick to write Hanabi off or kick her out of her well earned position because of their fanfictions and headcanons. 



> Naruto must feel like such a dick for taking the Hokage position away from Kiba.


Shit comparison. You're comparing an internal clan/family issue to what is basically the same thing as a mayor. 



> Would the Neji, who cares a who cares a great deal for his family, decide his family should still continue to suffer and be branded with the bird seal because he might hurt the feelings of his little cousin?


Would Neji rather not simply advise or work peacefully with his cousin rather than take the position she worked her entire life for? It's just as good of an alternative and we know Hanabi looked up to Neji. 



> Sure, the guy who was praised as a Genius, being really strong, mastered jutsu Main branch only could use, and had hype in the Chunnin Exam Finals, isn't popular.


This doesn't mean he's popular politically or preferred over Hanabi. Hanabi didn't inherent the haughty attitude about the side branch like her grandfather. 



> Sure the guy who freed/fighting for them from generations of oppression isn't gonna draw any support, how silly.


Never said he'd get _no _support. 



> Looks like Neji has at least something going for him via political backing/voice.


Ok? 



> Even more reasons why Neji would gain support for his movement or becoming Clan Head.


Assuming Hanabi herself doesn't share the opinion that the seal should be eliminated. She seemed quite fond of Neji, so I don't think she was against his standings.  

Jesus Christ, you're still giving me fanfiction, regardless, as Neji still _never showed interest in being clan head_. Go back to fanfiction.net and stop wasting my time.


----------



## Skaddix (Feb 25, 2016)

KingForever7 said:


> No. She Hasn't.
> 
> She's still the weakest on Team 8



Sorry Bro she rekt Kiba. 

I dont know but Himiwari already better then Neji she put Base Naruto down in one hit. Took Neji how many hits 64? 128?


----------



## $Kakashi$ (Feb 25, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> Sorry Bro she rekt Kiba.
> 
> I dont know but Himiwari already better then Neji she put Base Naruto down in one hit. Took Neji how many hits 64? 128?



Gag feats don't count.


----------



## Meat (Feb 25, 2016)

KingForever7 said:


> No. She Hasn't.
> 
> She's still the weakest on Team 8




Sorry dude but heres the truth:

Hinata > Shino >>> Kiba


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 25, 2016)

KingForever7 said:


> No. She Hasn't.
> 
> She's still the weakest on Team 8



Kiba is practically the weakest in team 8.. Ability and growth wise..

Shino is questionable if the strongest or not.. Due to the giant bug that can eat you inside out, He was also practically the strongest during the chuunin exam with his clone feint and strategic ability to use the bugs.

Hinata at least learned 64 palm during the war arc which is one of the strongest ability known to the hyuga barring Kaiten and also learned the dual lion fist...

While

Kiba's evolution is practically just adding 1 head to his double headed wolf transformation technique.


----------



## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Go back to fanfiction.net and stop wasting my time.



Just the place for you if you believe Hinata is somehow stronger than Neji even though she shown nothing close to Neji's level of aptitude or praise.

Neji is a Joinin while Hinata is a Chunnin.

My point was never about Neji wanting to be Clan head in the first place, that why I said he would either ask nicely for it to happen or if refused Neji would fight for it still.

The oppression was lessened to the branch clan, but that doesn't mean that stopped anything with the cage bird seal being placed on all Branch members.

They could very well have just seen them in a different light, but didn't stop the clan practice.

Saying Hanabi would abolish the practice is just as much fanfiction as saying the clan would change without any political reasoning to do so.

Before we get more off topic, Neji had a strong goal to fight for as his motivation to become powerful.

Which allowed him to become a Jonnin, while Hinata struggled with her Clan techniques where Neji doesn't.

Neji learned Kaiten himself, while Hinata hasn't shown any level of knowledge or prowess of it.

Neji therefore is still above Hinata.

Hinata learning her Lion fist is fine, but nowhere does it imply that that move surpasses Neji's level anywhere and since she had difficulties on performing the 64 palms she would be the lesser of the two.


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 25, 2016)

Hinata surpassed Neji in living longer. That's all.


----------



## Zef (Feb 25, 2016)

Of course not

WTF!?



Seto Kaiba said:


> Because he was fighting harder!
> 
> What a complete lie dude. He only died in the first place because her ass couldn't keep up.





Seto Kaiba said:


> No, it's a fact. He was actively on the front lines at a consistent basis all throughout that war. Kiba and Tenten even commented on it. He was fighting too hard and not affording himself proper rest.
> 
> His stamina. He had far greater chakra reserves than Hinata's, whose of which were unremarkable. Especially for her lineage.
> 
> ...


Yes, yes to all of this.   



Zensuki said:


> No. Hinata in the War arc was only able to perform jutsus, Neji could do as a genin and this is while Neji was a branch member. Furthermore, Hinata was chunin at this point while Neji was a jounin (first from the K11 I believe).
> 
> *Hinata as an adult has little to no feats, especially feats that would put her above Neji.*


Raniero is always wanking characters that have little to no feats.  

Even as an adult Hinata is still a Chunin. She has displayed nothing that shows her being superior to Neji. How can anyone make an argument otherwise without grasping at straws, or wandering into fanfic territory? 



Seto Kaiba said:


> This is classic "woobie effect". People wanna see a pretty much pitiful character succeed so badly they inflate every little thing they do and play them up at being a level of ability that they never had.
> 
> This shit isn't even new. I remember when people claimed that "Hinata stood toe-to-toe" with Neji or "had him on the ropes" in their fight during the Chunin Exams.





TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Just the place for you if you believe Hinata is somehow stronger than Neji even though she shown nothing close to Neji's level of aptitude or praise.
> 
> Neji is a Joinin while Hinata is a Chunnin.
> 
> ...



This


----------



## Blu-ray (Feb 25, 2016)

She didn't. Hell she's a still a Chunin even in the Boruto movie.



Hussain said:


> Probably she did. Neji was not anything special really...


He was the best of the Hyuuga. I mean sure that's not saying much in a general sense, but as far as Hyuuga standards go, he was a big deal.



shade0180 said:


> Kiba is practically the weakest in team 8.. Ability and growth wise..
> 
> Shino is questionable if the strongest or not.. Due to the giant bug that can eat you inside out, He was also practically the strongest during the chuunin exam with his clone feint and strategic ability to use the bugs.
> 
> ...



The only point of comparison we have is their performance against the Juubi fodder, and in the time Hinata struggled to take down one, Kiba was slewing hordes of them. They don't get any feats after that, so not seeing what puts him beneath her.


----------



## LazyWaka (Feb 25, 2016)

Even as a Hinata fan I cant deny that she's basically a massive fucking joke.

Even the whole "she's strong willed person who never gives up" thing doesn't matter because, when you get down to it, what does she have to show for it?

1. An endless losing streak

2. The acceptance of her father which she apparently only got because he grew a conscience as opposed to her actually accomplishing something.

3. A dead cousin.

4. The approval of a guy who is, quite frankly



far to easily impressed.

5. Marriage to the same guy that the author flat out stated he partially did out of pity.


----------



## Zef (Feb 25, 2016)

I wouldn't say Hinata is a joke. 
That would be someone like TenTen who had both her abilities, and motivations completely ignored. 

Hinata like so many other female characters just suffered from Kishi's questionable writing. But her character wasn't hit the hardest by it.


----------



## LazyWaka (Feb 25, 2016)

When I say joke, I mean in the cringe worthy sort of way, not the legitimately hilarious way like Tenten. 

Honestly though, I think I'd rather have it ignored like tentens than have it being lobotomized on panel. At least than you'd have head canon to fall back on.


----------



## Reznor (Feb 25, 2016)

Hinata is usually comparable to Neji from pretty long back. 

War Arc Hinata is between CE and SRA Neji (closer to SRA, IMO)
CE Hinata is probably comparable to right out of the Academy Neji (probably at least little better though)

This isn't about whether or not Neji would be Hokage level if he were still alive, or whether Hinata could have learned to poke things without Neji's help.

I think that Hinata from the Last is comparable to Neji at death. Neji can do things she can't, but vice versa is true too. I don't think there's an objective difference.


----------



## Milady (Feb 25, 2016)

Like someone said, isn't Hinata Chuunin and Neji a Jounin? 
I love Hinata and all but really, no..I don't think she surpassed him. 


And don't mention Neji, I'm still sad that he's gone


----------



## gershwin (Feb 25, 2016)

Meat said:


> In terms of battle experience:
> 
> *Hinata fought:
> 
> ...


- was defeated
-one-paneled
-Naruto did all the job
-off-paneled

Neji in part 2 thanks to Kishi never had a proper fight where he could show all of his development in the strenght department. His death was just a tool for certain subplot development. Hinata had more opportunities, but remained *the feels* department character. She is not strong nor she ever supposed to be. She is still a chunin while all of her peers were promoted further long time ago.
I dont see why she should be compared to Neji at all.


----------



## Punished Kiba (Feb 25, 2016)

Meat said:


> Sorry dude but heres the truth:
> 
> Hinata > Shino >>> Kiba



Absolute Wank.

Fanservice doesn't equal skill and feats.

Kiba>Shino>>>>Hinata.



shade0180 said:


> Kiba is practically the weakest in team 8.. Ability and growth wise..
> 
> Shino is questionable if the strongest or not.. Due to the giant bug that can eat you inside out, He was also practically the strongest during the chuunin exam with his clone feint and strategic ability to use the bugs.
> 
> ...



Hinata in the war arc finally learned a Technique that CE Neji could do years ago.....which was used to barely take out One Enemy. (and she NEARLY Tripped too)

Hinata's Twin Lion fist is Featless (literally)

War arc Hinata is about the level of CE Neji (skill wise)

Shino is the Smartest on the team obviously.....In a one on one, Shino would most likely use his analysis of Kiba's personality to beat him.

However, Kiba is undeniably the Fastest and Strongest on the Team. The only one the team shown to be able to take out multiple opponents at once at rapid speeds.

I don't care what biases you have against Kiba.....just don't deny the feats


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 25, 2016)

LazyWaka said:


> Even as a Hinata fan I cant deny that she's basically a massive fucking joke.
> 
> Even the whole "she's strong willed person who never gives up" thing doesn't matter because, when you get down to it, what does she have to show for it?
> 
> ...



6. Never made it beyond Chunin while everyone else did.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 25, 2016)

Milady1 said:


> Like someone said, isn't Hinata Chuunin and Neji a Jounin?
> I love Hinata and all but really, no..I don't think she surpassed him.
> 
> 
> And don't mention Neji, I'm still sad that he's gone



Ranks stopped being relevant ages ago. They don't mean jack-shit really..


----------



## Young Lord Minato (Feb 25, 2016)

Zero Requiem said:


> 6. Never made it Chunin while everyone else did.


Hinata did make it chunin, though.


----------



## Young Lord Minato (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> This is some nice fanfiction. Unfortunately for you, it doesn't match what's actually in the manga.
> 
> Ignoring the fact that Hiashi alluded to the main branch favoritism no longer being a thing anymore, I don't think you understand how Japanese clans work  Even if it was all a single branch, by virtue of being the head's daughter, Hanabi would be the next head. And not once did Neji hint that he planned to challenge Hiashi or overthrow the main branch, especially since Hiashi apologized and admitted that the main branch was at fault and Neji forgave him.
> 
> ...


The best solution, in my mind, would have been for Neji and Hanabi to get married, then they could run the clan together as husband and wife (don't look at me like that, people, cousin marriage is still legal in Japan)


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 25, 2016)

Young Lord Minato said:


> Hinata did make it chunin, though.



I meant to say "beyond".


----------



## dinosaur ninja (Feb 25, 2016)

Milady1 said:


> Like someone said, isn't Hinata Chuunin and Neji a Jounin?
> I love Hinata and all but really, no..I don't think she surpassed him.
> 
> 
> And don't mention Neji, I'm still sad that he's gone




So much potential so little time.
Imagine if neji had live 

How he died still hurts
Even though that's his destiny by protecting member of the main branch.
I wish we could have seen some changes in that part, he would have never had died that way if they manage to bring forth some changes, neji had the potential to bring changes in hyuga clan, that could have change his destiny and not died like that.

And no. Hinata did not surpassed neji.


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 25, 2016)

gershwin said:


> - was defeated
> -one-paneled
> -Naruto did all the job
> -off-paneled
> ...




Seems some people have trouble understanding Hinata's character.


----------



## Milady (Feb 25, 2016)

dinosaur ninja said:


> So much potential so little time.
> Imagine if neji had live
> 
> How he died still hurts
> ...



I also think Hinata had a lot of potential but just like many characters, Kishi forgot her. 
The thing is she looks up to Naruto and was inspired to become stronger. There could have been a little arc about her (like with shikamaru vs. hidan), but nopeeee...we didn't get it.


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 25, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Seems some people have trouble understanding Hinata's character.



Ironically enough it's her supposed biggest "fans" that have the most difficulty understanding Hinata's character.

Hinata's character was all about gradual strength and growth, mainly becoming *mentally *stronger. Overcoming her anxieties due to the emotional and mental abuse she suffered from her father. Hinata was never foreshadowed to be a physically strong character, but her fans insist on turning her into this god-tier, Mary Sue because they hate canon!Hinata. 

First they claim Hinata surpassed Neji. Next they'll arrogantly boast how Hinata's the only character in the series who can rival Naruto and Sasuke in strength, speed and power.

.

.

.

Oh wait.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Zero Requiem said:


> Ino shown to be a Jonin in Gaiden. She started wearing the vest and shit.


Everybody was wearing vests and shit during the war. Shikamaru (who also became Jonin, I forgot to mention) was chunin and wearing the uniform. Iruka  is chunin and he was wearing the uniform. I don't think the vest means much as it's issued to Chunin too.

Edit: Guess you realized that yourself.  



hustler's ambition said:


> Ironically enough it's her supposed biggest "fans" that have the most difficulty understanding Hinata's character.
> 
> Hinata's character was all about gradual strength and growth, mainly becoming *mentally *stronger. Overcoming her anxieties due to the emotional and mental abuse she suffered from her father. Hinata was never foreshadowed to be a physically strong character, but her fans insist on turning her into this god-tier, Mary Sue because they hate canon!Hinata.
> 
> ...


I don't think Hinata fans actually think this. I wonder where this came from


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> I don't think Hinata fans actually think this. I wonder where this came from



You're correct. No Hinata fan would ever say that. 



Tards on the other hand...


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Feb 25, 2016)

Probably not, no. Neji was stated multiple times to be the most talented member of the entire Hyūga Clan, while Hinata was never anything more than a very average kunoichi who worked very hard. She may have reached a fairly decent level by the War arc, but the events that led to Neji's death clearly highlighted her inferiority, and there's not much reason to assume she improved beyond that point.

Neji may have been a very neglected character, but he was considered an elite among Konoha shinobi and one of the strongest of Naruto's peers. There's a reason that he was the only one to have been made jōnin in the timeskip.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

hustler's ambition said:


> You're correct. No Hinata would ever say that.
> 
> 
> 
> Tards on the other hand...


Stay off of tumblr. That's where the vocal minority of the fandom, i.e. the tards, are located. Though I personally haven't encountered anybody who thinks Hinata rivals Naruto or Sasuke, even on that site. At least, not _seriously_.


----------



## LesExit (Feb 25, 2016)

*@Raniero* you're one of the only people making sense in this entire thread.

It's alarming how people are putting words in your mouth, just for saying something _slightly_ positive about Hinata 

Is Hinata stronger than Neji, _maybe _now?? I can only imagine that possible because he isn't alive and hasn't been able to improve, but he was always ahead of Hinata and if he was a live I firmly believe he would still be. We don't even know if she's an active ninja still, maybe she hasn't been training that much at all for years now.



hustler's ambition said:


> Ironically enough it's her supposed biggest "fans" that have the most difficulty understanding Hinata's character.
> 
> Hinata's character was all about gradual strength and growth, mainly becoming *mentally *stronger. Overcoming her anxieties due to the emotional and mental abuse she suffered from her father. Hinata was never foreshadowed to be a physically strong character, but her fans insist on turning her into this god-tier, Mary Sue because they hate canon!Hinata.
> 
> First they claim Hinata surpassed Neji. Next they'll arrogantly boast how Hinata's the only character in the series who can rival Naruto and Sasuke in strength, speed and power.


I love Hinata. My love for her has never come from her physical strength, but from her desire to become a strong as she can and simply not give up. As you said her mental strength is what makes her special. Hinata chill, I'd play GTA V with her.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

LesExit said:


> It's alarming how people are putting words in your mouth, just for saying something _slightly_ positive about Hinata




I say Hinata had more stamina during the war and even highlighted events in the manga, which never once implied she was stronger or more skillful than Neji, and I've already had at least three different people accuse me of wanking Hinata and saying she was stronger than Neji and _downplaying _Neji, despite me not once saying a single negative thing about the guy. Edit: Also, let's not forget I've been called a liar about Neji and Hinata fighting together when they first encountered the Zetsus. And Seto _still _hasn't come out and admitted he's the liar after I posted the chapter. 

It's a classic kneejerk, fantard reaction and I can't say I'm surprised by it.


----------



## LesExit (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> I say Hinata had more stamina during the war and even highlighted events in the manga, which never once implied she was stronger or more skillful than Neji, and I've already had at least three different people accuse me of wanking Hinata and saying she was stronger than Neji and _downplaying _Neji, despite me not once saying a single negative thing about the guy.
> 
> It's a classic kneejerk, fantard reaction and I can't say I'm surprised by it.


I know...it isn't surprising. Both pro's and anti's are guilty of having these reactions. People just need to relax tho (ﾟｰﾟ


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2016)

> It's a classic kneejerk, fantard reaction and I can't say I'm surprised by it.



This is projection.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This is projection.


I'm still waiting for you to admit you're a filthy liar and a hypocrite. 

You came at me first, Seto, and now you're like a dog with his tail between his legs attempting to throw sad pot shots at me because you're unwilling to admit to your own bullshit. Like I said, I'm disappointed.


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 25, 2016)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Probably not, no. Neji was stated multiple times to be the most talented member of the entire Hyūga Clan, while Hinata was never anything more than a very average kunoichi who worked very hard. She may have reached a fairly decent level by the War arc, but the events that led to Neji's death clearly highlighted her inferiority, and there's not much reason to assume she improved beyond that point.
> 
> Neji may have been a very neglected character, but he was considered an elite among Konoha shinobi and one of the strongest of Naruto's peers. There's a reason that he was the only one to have been made jōnin in the timeskip.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2016)

Raneiro, this kind of reaction only serves to bolster my point. You were the one who had kneejerk reactions to what people were saying in this thread. What's more is when called out on making things up, you went at anyone's throat that did not buy into it. You were additionally projecting that own fanaticism as it applies to Hinata onto other people disputing your claims.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 25, 2016)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Raneiro, this kind of reaction only serves to bolster my point. You were the one who had kneejerk reactions to what people were saying in this thread.


Excuse me? I posted an opinion and then you came at my throat, accusing me of things I never once said. 

And then you get upset when I bite back?  

So far, I haven't even gone out of my way to argue with anybody calling Hinata weaker than Neji or just weak in general either. Most of what I've been debating about is Neji being clan head or not. 



> What's more is when called out on making things up, you went at anyone's throat that did not buy into it.


I...I made things up?


			
				you said:
			
		

> No we did not. Only in the latter parts of the war.


This was in reference to them being shown to not have fought together until the latter parts of the war.


			
				my response said:
			
		

> Naruto chapter 521


I gave the exact chapter where they first fought the Zetsus early in the war during first enemy engagement and they were together. Still no response from you. 



			
				you said:
			
		

> A move that Neji invented


I asked for proof that he invented Air Palm, which you did not provide and will not provide because it's nonexistent and a blatant lie. 

Also, who's throat did I go after? The only one who addressed my comment and directly disagreed with me through a post in the first place was _you _and I only debated with you because you replied to me first. 



> You were additionally projecting that own fanaticism as it applies to Hinata onto other people disputing your claims.


What fucking fanaticism? You're accusing me of "making things up", when I can show proof where you lied through your teeth. This is pathetic, bro 

Here, have another panel of Hinata and Neji fighting side by side, where weak little Hinata protects her cousin's back as he protects her.


Edit: I'll deal with you later tonight, since I know you're going to damage control. I got shit to do.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Excuse me? I posted an opinion and then you came at my throat, accusing me of things I never once said.
> 
> And then you get upset when I bite back?
> 
> ...



Neji did not always fight alongside Hinata once again. Furthermore, unlike herself in the war he was a Jonin on the front lines, she was not. He had fought to the extent that he had collapsed, once again, a matter directly referenced to. You were trying to conflate the matters of effort (which everyone put into) and the matter of overextending oneself, which Neji did. Particularly in an attempt to state that Hinata had greater chakra reserves when nothing suggested anything of the sort.

As a matter of fact, all things showed quite the opposite, that it is unremarkable in that regard. You often do this when it comes to topics in relation to her, you cannot seem to bring yourself to make a complete concession despite the facts being against you on the matter. Nothing ever suggested that Hinata had any exceptional prowess in combat, or any specific advantages other than her bloodborne abilities. 

Additionally, Neji unlike 32-64 palm technique and Kaiten, the Vacuum Palm is not at all stated to be among the techniques of the clan. Neji was the first to use them, and Hinata only able to use it in the latter half of Part II. We know that Neji trained with Hiashi, and with Hinata. We know also that Neji taught himself the aforementioned two techniques exclusive to his clan as well, and was prodiguous in their martial arts style.

With the way you've reacted to people, and the general way you've conducted yourself, you're not really in a place to talk about anyone else's behavior. You accused me for example of being fanatical over Neji, despite all behaviors of such you displayed in regard to Hinata. You accused people of having kneejerk, emotional reactions, when that is pretty much been yourself in this entire thread. That is critically lacking in self-awareness here.


----------



## Zef (Feb 25, 2016)

I'm not understanding some of the rationale in this thread . 

Could Hinata have surpassed Neji since he's dead, and therefore hasn't impoved? Yes,  the possibility is there.
But there being a possibility doesn't make it a fact. Until Hinata's supposed advancement is shown she's still below Neji.

Also, I take issue with the logic that dead character's can easily get surpassed since they're dead.
Hashirama & Madara have been dead for centuries. How many shinobi in that time surpassed them? Like...two?

Some dead characters just can't be surpassed. Among the Hyuuga that character is most likely Neji.


----------



## The Runner (Feb 25, 2016)

With Hinata having that Hamura bullshit chakra in "the last"? Yeah, she might've. Kishi himself demonstrated that he doesn't hold Neji in high regard, as he would sacrifice Neji to just give her and her Naruto-kun a personal moment.

That being said, Hinata is a housewife now. So she probably got rusty.


----------



## Matty (Feb 25, 2016)

Absolutely


----------



## Cord (Feb 25, 2016)

I have not seen The Last, but I'm going to echo everyone who said that Hinata has not surpassed Neji in the last arc in of manga. By virtue of feats and portrayal, she has not really displayed anything particularly as impressive as Neji has, skills-wise.


----------



## Reznor (Feb 25, 2016)

The Last is kinda the whole shebang here. 
I don't think anyone argues that War Arc Hinata > War Arc Neji. 
Whether or not her The Last portrayal puts her up to Neji's level is what's up for discussion.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 26, 2016)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Neji did not always fight alongside Hinata once again.


The manga disagrees. 

If it does agree with your assertion, than you need to post the scan. I've posted scans. Burden of proof is on you.

But you won't post it. Because you're a liar and a hypocrite.  



> Furthermore, unlike herself in the war he was a Jonin on the front lines, she was not.


They were _all _on the front lines, regardless of their ranks. Not once was rank being a deciding factor on who was in the front lines or not in the manga, as we saw Chunin fighting Jounin level threats throughout the entire war. Like I said, we saw Hinata and Neji both fighting together on the same squad the entire time, up until his exhaustion. 

Keep being intellectually dishonest though. It's all you can do, since the manga most certainly doesn't support a single thing you've said. 



> He had fought to the extent that he had collapsed, once again, a matter directly referenced to.


And Hinata also pushing herself was also directly referenced, as Shino told her to rest after her constant fighting when she refused and decided to stay up during the night watch. And she didn't actually rest up until the Shinobi alliance stood up against Madara and the Juubi. 



> You were trying to conflate the matters of effort (which everyone put into) and the matter of overextending oneself, which Neji did. Particularly in an attempt to state that Hinata had greater chakra reserves when nothing suggested anything of the sort.


Occam's razor dictates she has more stamina by virtue of not needing rest while Neji did. Everything supports me. Nothing supports you. 

And it's up to you to prove Neji put more effort in than Hinata, since we saw them both fighting side by side and both were alluded to have been overexerting themselves. 



> As a matter of fact, all things showed quite the opposite, that it is unremarkable in that regard. You often do this when it comes to topics in relation to her, you cannot seem to bring yourself to make a complete concession despite the facts being against you on the matter. Nothing ever suggested that Hinata had any exceptional prowess in combat, or any specific advantages other than her bloodborne abilities.


Jesus Christ. You really can't read and you keep putting words in my mouth, because you can't actually address a single thing I actually said with even a hint of common sense. I never suggested she had exceptional prowess in combat, you fucking goofball, and it I did, you better post it instead of talking out of your ass. Though I don't expect you to actually post it, because talking out of your ass is all you've been doing this entire time.  

And you haven't debunked Hinata showing more stamina than Neji during the war and you've given me no "facts" that I haven't either debunked or proven was a lie straight out of your mouth. 



> Additionally, Neji unlike 32-64 palm technique and Kaiten, the Vacuum Palm is not at all stated to be among the techniques of the clan.


Considering we've seen the Hyuga use it at a consistent basis in part 2, including the clan head, yes, it is a clan technique. And not once was it stated that Neji created it. That's just another lie you haven't proven to be true. 



> Neji was the first to use them


Being first to use it on panel =/= inventing it. 

Just like Minato never invented the FTG. Just like Naruto never invented the Shadow Clone.  



> We know that Neji trained with Hiashi, and with Hinata. We know also that Neji taught himself the aforementioned two techniques exclusive to his clan as well, and was prodiguous in their martial arts style.


And this still does not prove he created the technique. Still waiting for you to prove he did. But you am I kidding? You won't. Not only because such a fact doesn't exist, but because you'll just avoid actually directly addressing it like you keep doing. 



> You accused people of having kneejerk, emotional reactions, when that is pretty much been yourself in this entire thread. That is critically lacking in self-awareness here.


Give me a single time in this thread where I went at somebody's throat because they said something I disagreed with. You can't. At this point, you just come across as a child pointing fingers. You keep accusing me of projection, but you are the one who came at me first, apparently got upset because I made you look stupid, and now you're lying about me apparently attacking people for their opinion about Hinata in this thread, when not once did I do such a thing. You're the one projecting, because you're a hypocrite. 

By the way, nice job avoiding the issue. Still waiting for you to admit you're a filthy liar and a hypocrite


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Feb 26, 2016)

Neji was a Jounin when part 2 started and he only became stronger since then. Hinata on the other hand was a Chuunin and although she did have way more screen time at that point, nah, she wasn't at that level. Neji would probably be able to give Part 1 Kakashi a run for his money which is far beyond what Hinata could ever do in the series. Just because he's dead doesn't mean he's gotten weaker.


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 26, 2016)

I don't even know why The Last is even up for discussion in this thread. Hinata didn't do a single thing without Naruto's assistance except fight off a few fodder puppets for 2 seconds. In every other scene in that movie, she needed Naruto's help. That doesn't showcase that she's strong, even with "Hamura's chakra", Hinata wasn't able to leap from one rooftop to another. She wasn't able to fight off Toneri. She wasn't able to destroy the Tenseigan. She wasn't able to release herself from Toneri's control. Need I go on?

This "Hamura's chakra" mess is also the reason why a bulk of her fandom claims she's a god-tier shinobi in the same rank as Naruto and Sasuke. Possessing Hamura's chakura won't put Hinata above Neji if it's been proven throughout the movie that she can't even harness it without Naruto's assistance. All it proves is that Hinata < Neji, even with a bullshit powerup.

But I'll give her some credit... Hinata's a skilled knitter, and a god-tier cook and cleaner thanks to Hamura's chakra.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 26, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Saying that Hinata's 64 palms with lion fist is > Neji's


That is not the same thing as saying Hinata surpasses Neji or is stronger than Neji. For one thing, Neji's 64 palms is just a plain 64 palms. Hinata's is not only just 64 palms, but it's boosted by the chakra draining Lions Fists. The latter would naturally be stronger. This is common sense and says nothing about an overall comparison, especially since you conveniently cut out the part where I said no to her surpassing him in technique and skill.  



> and she has more stamina than he does is a pretty good start.


Stamina is literally _one _stat and does not means she is overall stronger than Neji. Sakura has more _endurance _than Sasuke because she can regenerate. But does that mean she is overall stronger than Sasuke? No. 



> If thats not an attempt to show that Hinata is stronger than Neji in some way, then what is?


As I explained above, how is saying she has better stamina an attempt to show she is _stronger _than Neji? You're purposely being obtuse. I say Hinata is better than Neji at a single stat and somehow that's saying she's _stronger _than him?  



> This could have all been avoided and simplified if you just stated at the start that you believe Neji >Hinata, but you never did.


Yes, I did. On the second page:


> I didn't even say she was stronger than him, just better endurance.


Not my fault you and Seto jumped on my post for whatever flimsy reason and put words in my mouth.  
And I did say "In clan techniques? No." I didn't bother to elaborate further and even bother to delve into specifics like speed or intelligence, because I hadn't expected sensitive fuckers to make such a big deal out of something I said.  



> All you did was say she is better than him at 2 things and only said Neji has an edge in Clan Tech from knowing Kaiten, without directly answering the OP's question on did Hinata surpass Neji.


Yes, "all I did", so you're well aware how I clearly didn't go into much detail. I did not say Neji _only _had an edge due to Kaiten. I used Kaiten as a single example to show she was below him as far as techniques go in a quick comment and didn't bother going into detail beyond that. And there is nothing incorrect with saying her 64 Palms > his in strength, because like I said, hers is a combo of two techniques, whereas his isn't. Which still doesn't imply she is stronger than him overall.

And really? That's your final argument? Because I didn't directly answer the OP (even though I technically did)? lol 

Also, your set is making me think of you as a troll. Considering blocking  



			
				hustler's ambition said:
			
		

> the bulk of her fandom


Nope.


----------



## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 26, 2016)

Raniero said:


> And really? That's your final argument? Because I didn't directly answer the OP? lol



Still haven't.

That's kinda the point of the thread you know.



Raniero said:


> Not my fault you and Seto jumped on my post for whatever *flimsy* reason and put words in my mouth.



Indirectly implying Hinata is above Neji in some areas without directly stating your stance on the question tends to make people believe you think Hinata surpassed Neji, that's just common.



Raniero said:


> Yes, "all I did", so you're well aware how *I clearly didn't go into much detail*.* I did not say Neji only had an edge due to Kaiten*. I used Kaiten as a single example to show she was below him as far as techniques go in a quick comment and didn't bother going into detail beyond that. _And there is nothing incorrect with saying her 64 Palms > his in strength, because like I said, hers is a combo of two techniques, whereas his isn't. Which still doesn't imply she is stronger than him overall._



But that is all you brought up and *because you didn't go into detail* posters disagreed with what you said.

_Using 2 techniques together doesn't make them more powerful than someone else's skill with only one jutsu, not disagreeing that logically combining 2 jutsu would be stronger than just one jutsu but hopefully you agree that that doesn't make Hinata's combo is more powerful than Neji's because they have never clashed together, making it an assumption._



Raniero said:


> Also, your set is making me think of you as a troll. Considering blocking



It's a pretty cool set tho, right?

Naruto thinks he's the coolest guy, so it must be.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 26, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Still haven't.
> 
> That's kinda the point of the thread you know.


No, Hinata did not surpass Neji in combat prowess. She did surpass him in stamina, or at least the ability to use her energy conservatively, going by what was shown in the war, but that does not means she can actually beat him one on one.

I don't think I could possibly get any clearer than this


----------



## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 26, 2016)

Raniero said:


> No, Hinata did not surpass Neji in combat prowess. She did surpass him in stamina, or at least the ability to use her energy conservatively, going by what was shown in the war, but that does not means she can actually beat him one on one.
> 
> I don't think I could possibly get any clearer than this



Ok, we are in somewhat of an agreement.

You never voted yet on any option so from the way your previous posts sounded I thought you were arguing the opposite, so miscommunication on both parties.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 26, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Ok, we are in somewhat of an agreement.
> 
> You never voted yet on any option so from the way your previous posts sounded I thought you were arguing the opposite, so miscommunication on both parties.


There was no miscommunication on my part. The blame is completely on ya'll for jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth.  

I never use the polls, but I voted to satsify you people


----------



## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Feb 26, 2016)

Raniero said:


> There was no miscommunication on my part.





Not even a little huh.

Still haven't said that my set is coolest, with the coolest guy in it.



Raniero said:


> I never use the polls, but I voted to satsify you people





Ah ha, so you did cause some miscommunication by not voting.

Your vote is your voice.


----------



## LadyTenTen (Feb 26, 2016)

Neji ---> Jounin during part 2
Hinata ---> Still a chuunin in chapter 700

NO


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 26, 2016)

Reznor said:


> The Last is kinda the whole shebang here.
> I don't think anyone argues that War Arc Hinata > War Arc Neji.
> Whether or not her The Last portrayal puts her up to Neji's level is what's up for discussion.



Any notable feats in The Last?



Sir Jogga said:


> With Hinata having that Hamura bullshit chakra in "the last"? Yeah, she might've. Kishi himself demonstrated that he doesn't hold Neji in high regard, as he would sacrifice Neji to just give her and her Naruto-kun a personal moment.
> 
> That being said, Hinata is a housewife now. So she probably got rusty.



Hamura chakra 
Does she still have it? What kind abilities did it give her to be claimed as a significant power up?


----------



## Indra (Feb 26, 2016)

I guess in some areas, maybe. But in overall skill and talent, Neji was far better.


----------



## Kyosuke (Feb 26, 2016)

Ha, of course the answer is NO.


----------



## Toph (Feb 26, 2016)

If Hinata still has Hamura's chakra, why did she get wtfbbqowned by a bunch of fodders and nursed back to health by Sakura in the Burrito movie? 
lelelelelel


----------



## Platypus (Feb 26, 2016)

She has Hamura's chakra ("blood") simply by virtue of being his descendant. The entire Hyūga clan descended from Hamura, so did the deceased main Ōtsutsuki family members she saw and met in her vision, and Toneri himself. It's similar to the Uchiha and Senju clans as a whole being gifted with stronger eyes or bodies respectively as a result of being Indra or Asura's descendants. It's not like Hinata is Hamura's transmigrant/reincarnation or something like that.


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 26, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> If Hinata still has Hamura's chakra, why did she get wtfbbqowned by a bunch of fodders and nursed back to health by Sakura in the Burrito movie?
> lelelelelel



I'm still waiting on someone to answer this.


----------



## Alita (Feb 26, 2016)

Hinata from the last after getting hamura's chakra definitely is imo.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 26, 2016)

HoroHoro said:
			
		

> If Hinata still has Hamura's chakra, why did she get wtfbbqowned by a bunch of fodders and nursed back to health by Sakura in the Burrito movie?
> lelelelelel





hustler's ambition said:


> I'm still waiting on someone to answer this.


Not to say Hamaru's chakra gave her a boost (because knowing idiots, they'll try to interpret my comment this way), but aren't Momoshiki and Kinshiki god tiers on (or close to) Sasuke and Naruto's level though? So how are they fodder?


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 26, 2016)

hustler's ambition said:


> I'm still waiting on someone to answer this.



I think the more relevant question os what does Hamura chakra even give to Hinata.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 26, 2016)

Hinata fully restoring all of Naruto's lost chakra with Hamura's chakra, whereas Sakura was bedridden by doing the same thing. And it allowed her to damage the Tenseigan. No other relevant feats iirc.


----------



## fuff (Feb 26, 2016)

well..shes alive so she did pass neji on that level


----------



## Zef (Feb 26, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> I think the more relevant question os what does Hamura chakra even give to Hinata.



It changes the color of her Twin Lions to purple


----------



## Shadow050 (Feb 27, 2016)

Raniero said:


> In clan techniques during the war? No, since she didn't appear to know Kaiten, though her 64 Palms with Lion Fist > Neji's due to it being a combo of two techniques.
> 
> In endurance and Byakugan strength? Yes. Neji was hospitalized from Byakugan overuse early on during the war while Hinata continuously kept using her Byukugan up until the Madara shit, including standing watch at night.



dude... wtf did you read/watch?

fate must have lead me to check up on the forum lol...

1) what, other than range, would you suppose the lion heads add to 64 palms to make it superior to neji's? how does one really enhance that technique? lol... and the irony of you trying to invalidate someone claiming 'conjecture' when that's exactly what you're doing here 

2) reread EVERY instance with Neji and Hinata.... and you'll notice that hinata VERY OFTEN would have her byakugan off - resting -and she CONSISTENTLY fails to keep it on. SO OFTEN in the series we see her in hostel/battle situations and her byakugan is off, so it's pretty obvious that she's NEVER shown to be surpassing him. 

3) Neji wasn't "hospitalized" for overuse. he never went to the medics. he strained his byakugan by having it on THE WHOLE DAY and pushing harder in an attempt to keep people safer - as the leader responsibilities fell to him when the team was split up. he merely rested and recovered.

little know FACT - Neji mastered 3 elements despite them never showing them to us in action. he's much better than people like you, considering your post, have ever realized and Hinata never held a candle to him. 




Seto Kaiba said:


> Because he was fighting harder!
> 
> What a complete lie dude. He only died in the first place because her ass couldn't keep up.



right on bruh


----------



## Raniero (Feb 27, 2016)

Fuck it, I'll bite.  



Shadow050 said:


> 1) what, other than range, would you suppose the lion heads add to 64 palms to make it superior to neji's? how does one really enhance that technique? lol... and the irony of you trying to invalidate someone claiming 'conjecture' when that's exactly what you're doing here





			
				Databook entry on the Lion First said:
			
		

> A secret high-level juuken technique, taught only to the main family of the Hyuuga clan. By changing the shape of chakra released from both hands, [the user] greatly increases reach and destructive power. The arms become entirely like lions which drain the chakra network of those they touch.



All in all, it enhances the power of 64 palms greatly. 



> 2) reread EVERY instance with Neji and Hinata.... and you'll notice that hinata VERY OFTEN would have her byakugan off - resting -and she CONSISTENTLY fails to keep it on. SO OFTEN in the series we see her in hostel/battle situations and her byakugan is off, so it's pretty obvious that she's NEVER shown to be surpassing him


Once again, I have a total moron putting words in my mouth because they lack reading comprehension and has failed to read the rest of the thread. Not once did I state she surpasses Neji overall. And I'd like you to prove that Hinata consistently has her Byakugan off when she's with Neji during the war, because I do not recall a single instance where that happened. I'm assuming you can post panels?



> 3) Neji wasn't "hospitalized" for overuse. he never went to the medics. he strained his byakugan by having it on THE WHOLE DAY and pushing harder in an attempt to keep people safer - as the leader responsibilities fell to him when the team was split up. he merely rested and recovered.


Neji was shown laid out after he and Hinata had constantly fought side by side. She was fighting and had her Byakugan on like him the whole day too and didn't need to rest like he did. This is fact. 

And it's funny that you're talking about Neji keeping people safe, when I posted a panel showing Hinata actually saving Neji. It was all give and take. 



> little know FACT - Neji mastered 3 elements despite them never showing them to us in action. he's much better than people like you, considering your post, have ever realized and Hinata never held a candle to him.


I like how you ignored the fact that, multiple times in this very thread, I said that Hinata did not surpass Neji. Only that she showed more stamina then him during the war. But keep putting words in my mouth and getting so defensive over a fictional character. 

Also, he's much better than people like me because he can use fictional magic powers? The fuck does this even mean?


----------



## db84x (Feb 27, 2016)

Since she still alive than she will surpass Neji


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 27, 2016)

db84x said:


> Since she still alive than she will surpass Neji



That logic does not hold: she has not shown any feats to clearly put her above a 16 year old Neji.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Feb 27, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> That logic does not hold: she has not shown any feats to clearly put her above a 16 year old Neji.



Since when do on-panel feats matter in these sorts of discussions?


----------



## Platypus (Feb 27, 2016)

Zef said:


> It changes the color of her Twin Lions to purple



It did? Well then, I suppose he did give her some of his chakra through that vision after all.  The movie was pretty vague about a lot of stuff. Not that it matters much in this case.


----------



## shieldbounce (Feb 27, 2016)

From looking over this thread, you can say that Hinata is stronger than Neji via Twin Lions, but if it came to a duel between the two, I see Neji taking it due to greater skill, intellect, and speed in performing techniques.

so I don't believe that Hinata has proven herself as a better ninja than Neji at the end of the war, even though she has a more powerful technique in her disposal.

Plus Neji performed 128 palms during one of his fights against Kidomaru anyways.


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 27, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Since when do on-panel feats matter in these sorts of discussions?



Hype and feats have always mattered


----------



## Toph (Feb 27, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Since when do on-panel feats matter in these sorts of discussions?



Since always?


----------



## Zef (Feb 27, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Since when do on-panel feats matter in these sorts of discussions?



Since when did it not? 

So I can say TonTon > Kaguya without any feats to show?


----------



## Raniero (Feb 27, 2016)

The gap between Hinata and Neji was not so large that after over a decade of training (if she hypothetically did keep training, that is, since she seemed to have retired anyway) she would not be capable of catching up to him or surpassing him. 

If people are going to bring up rank, don't. Ignoring that rank doesn't really mean much by the beginning of part 2, part of being promoted to Jounin is due to merits such as "leadership" and "ingenuity" rather than just power, such as Shikamaru being promoted to Chunin despite clearly not being the strongest out of the Konoha 11 at the time, Kurenai not being promoted to a Jounin until she was in her late twenties, despite being so talented at Genjutsu, and most of the Konoha 11 not being promoted to Jounin level by the time they were 19, despite having Jounin level feats during the war. 

nb4 somebody has a problem with what I just said


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 27, 2016)

Point is, in canon there are no feats or hype to even suggest Hinata has notably improved as an adult, with her only power up being granted to her. 

Rank does matter. People always misunderstand it. Its not the be all end all but it gives further evidence to the strength (in various aspects depending on who it is) of the ninja, especially when they lack feats that undermine such rankings. Intelligence can be crucial in a fight just like ninjutsu, as Shikamaru evidently shows. His jounin ranking is a testament to his capabilities even if they are specialised.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 27, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Point is, in canon there are no feats or hype to even suggest Hinata has notably improved as an adult, with her only power up being granted to her.


That's why I said _hypothetically_. You're speaking of an unknown regardless, as there's nothing to suggest she didn't improve as much as there is nothing to suggest she did. 

Why do I even bother with you people?  



> Its not the be all end all


Good you agree. Then we don't need to discuss further  

I'll ask this then: since you're hyping power so much, why was Lee not a Jounin when he was 20-21, when he's clearly > Neji?


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Feb 27, 2016)

Zef said:


> Since when did it not?
> 
> So I can say TonTon > Kaguya without any feats to show?



That's practically what happens half the time, isn't it? Remember Sasuke > Naruto? Sakura > Tsunade? Itachi > everyone? Etc. Etc. False hype and fanon is what keeps the forum going. The irony, however, is that the same people making the weirdest claims for other characters, now suddenly say: no panel, no proof


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 27, 2016)

.


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 27, 2016)

Your logic is incredibly flawed. Canon feats and hype are used to indicate power in the manga: to support a claim evidence must be shown. Not the backwards logic of there is no evidence to _explicitly_ disprove my claim so my claim could be true. Thats negative proof. 

Try reading the entire sentence, notice the connective.


> Its not the be all end all *but it gives further evidence to the strength (in various aspects depending on who it is) of the ninja, especially when they lack feats that undermine such rankings.*



Thats Hinata. 

- still is a chunin despite being 30+
- gets off panelled one shotted by Momo/Kinshiki
- No notable feats in The Last apart from Hamura chakra gain which itself is only shown to revitalise Naruto rather than being used effectively in battle by Hinata.

Its clear what picture Kishi is painting here.


----------



## Lord Trollbias (Feb 27, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> That's practically what happens half the time, isn't it? Remember Sasuke > Naruto? Sakura > Tsunade? Itachi > everyone? Etc. Etc. False hype and fanon is what keeps the forum going. The irony, however, is that the same people making the weirdest claims for other characters, now suddenly say: no panel, no proof


There's only one piece of hype that really matters:


----------



## Raniero (Feb 27, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Your logic is incredibly flawed. Canon feats and hype are used to indicate power in the manga: to support a claim evidence must be shown.


How is my logic flawed? I didn't state she was "this" or "that" and made no claim. Only that there was no indication of either being true.

Using lack of canon feats to make assumptions about power after what is clearly a massive time-skip is flawed. 



> Not the backwards logic of there is no evidence to _explicitly_ disprove my claim so my claim could be true. Thats negative proof.


Keyword: _could_. There's also no evidence (other than what you _think _is evidence) to support your claim being true without a doubt.  So your claim could also not be true. 



> Thats Hinata.


It's still a moot point and I've already addressed how rank isn't  the be-all, end all and gave you examples. Which you avoided addressing, by the way. 



> still is a chunin despite being 30+


And? I've already proven age means little. Even then, one could easily say she's still a Chunin because she isn't on active duty, which says nothing about whether or not she stayed in shape. And I'll refer back to the Kurenai example. During the beginning of part 1, she was 27 and a newly promoted Jounin and was neither married or a mother. 



> -gets off panelled one shotted by Momo/Kinshiki


For one thing, if the fight was off-panel, how do you know they "one-shot" her? See what I mean about "assumptions"? Secondly, using them to make an _assumption _about how strong (or not) she is is utterly asinine. Both are god-tier shinobi, so I fail to see how her being defeated by them proves much of anything, as they are character that can throw down with Naruto and Sasuke. 



> - No notable feats in The Last apart from Hamura chakra gain which itself is only shown to revitalise Naruto rather than being used effectively in battle by Hinata.


Again, irrelevant. Toneri is a god tier character and there were no other enemies besides mindless puppets present, all whom she fodderized. 



> Its clear what picture Kishi is painting here.


There is no "clear picture", as I've already proven. This "clear picture" comes from your own conjecture.


----------



## Lord Trollbias (Feb 27, 2016)

On a serious note I've seen nothing from Hinata that suggests she's surpassed War Arc Neji (even with Hamura Chakra) so I'll say no.


----------



## Zef (Feb 27, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> That's practically what happens half the time, isn't it? Remember Sasuke > Naruto? Sakura > Tsunade? Itachi > everyone? Etc. Etc. False hype and fanon is what keeps the forum going. The irony, however, is that the same people making the weirdest claims for other characters, now suddenly say: no panel, no proof



This is sad.

Sasuke > Naruto, if we're talking about Hebi Sasuke & early Shippuden Naruto this is indisputable 

Sakura > Tsunade,  they have each others exact moveset but Sakura has Hashirama putting her strength above Tsunade. 

Itachi > Everyone, this is obviously trolling from his fanbase but he HAS one upped a lot of the cast  (Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Gai, Nagato, Kabuto, etc ) then we have statements from  Kaguya's will saying he's "invincible" And numerous other characters wanking him to death.


None of these are baseless. Hinata being superior to Neji is. Not only does she have no feats of being stronger she also has no hype.

At the very least one can argue Sakura > Tsunade because of Hashirama's hype.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 27, 2016)

Zef said:


> Hashirama putting her strength above Tsunade


Didn't Hashirama say this without being aware of what current Tsunade was capable of though?

I mean, he was dead by the time the Sannin became famous.


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 27, 2016)

Raniero said:


> How is my logic flawed? I didn't state she was "this" or "that" and made no claim. Only that there was no indication of either being true.
> 
> Using lack of canon feats to make assumptions about power after what is clearly a massive time-skip is flawed.
> 
> Keyword: _could_. There's also no evidence (other than what you _think _is evidence) to support your claim being true without a doubt.  So your claim could also not be true.





> Not the backwards* logic of there is no evidence to explicitly disprove my claim so my claim could be true*. *Thats negative proof*.







> It's still a moot point and I've already addressed how rank isn't  the be-all, end all and gave you examples. Which you avoided addressing, by the way.



No, you just evidently ignored the sentence:



> Its not the be all end all *but it gives further evidence to the strength (in various aspects depending on who it is) of the ninja, especially when they lack feats that undermine such rankings.*



Lee has such feats.
Hinata does not.



> And? I've already proven age means little. *Even then, one could easily say she's still a Chunin because she isn't on active duty, which says nothing about whether or not she stayed in shape*.




wishful thinking that you just straight up imagined.



> And I'll refer back to the Kurenai example. During the beginning of part 1, she was 27 and a newly promoted Jounin and was neither married or a mother.



?



> For one thing, if the fight was off-panel, how do you know they "one-shot" her? See what I mean about "assumptions"? Secondly, using them to make an _assumption _about how strong (or not) she is is utterly asinine. Both are god-tier shinobi, so I fail to see how her being defeated by them proves much of anything, as they are character that can throw down with Naruto and Sasuke.



You're right, should of said negged. The fight was so irrelevant that no one worked on it.
Its not the defeat that makes her fodder silly. Its the nature of defeat. 



> Again, irrelevant. Toneri is a god tier character and there were no other enemies besides mindless puppets present, all whom she fodderized.



Its not the defeat that makes her fodder silly. Its the nature of defeat. 



> There is no "clear picture", as I've already proven. This "clear picture" comes from your own conjecture.



The picture:

- still is a chunin despite being 30+
- gets off panelled by Momo/Kinshiki
- No notable feats in The Last apart from Hamura chakra gain which itself is only shown to revitalise Naruto rather than being used effectively in battle by Hinata.

Meanwhile, your arguments are a compilation of could be's and maybes


----------



## Toph (Feb 27, 2016)

yeah, no. I am not taking any of Hashirama's words into consideration as he was dead before ever witnessing Tsunade in her adulthood and prime, theres a huge difference between showing and telling

the fact remains as it stands, Tsunade is beyond Sakura's league from what we've been shown ON-PANEL


----------



## Plague (Feb 27, 2016)

In all honesty, I don't think she did. 

She got some chakra from that ancient guy (I stopped caring after the end), but I think all that did was boost her raw power. 

In terms of skill, experience, speed, and technique, I think Neji still stronger.


----------



## Zef (Feb 27, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> yeah, no. I am not taking any of Hashirama's words into consideration as he was dead before ever witnessing Tsunade in her adulthood and prime, theres a huge difference between showing and telling
> 
> the fact remains as it stands, *Tsunade is beyond Sakura's league from what we've been shown ON-PANEL*


Tsunade has shown nothing of this caliber 


Feats to the contrary are welcomed


----------



## Raniero (Feb 27, 2016)

Breaking Madara's Susanoo's ribcage (and his durability with that thing is, what, city level? mountain level?) > that town level feat


----------



## Blu-ray (Feb 27, 2016)

Platypus said:


> It did? Well then, I suppose he did give her some of his chakra through that vision after all.  The movie was pretty vague about a lot of stuff. Not that it matters much in this case.





Zef said:


> It changes the color of her Twin Lions to purple


I thought the reason it colored purple was for the same reason Naruto's Rasengan was colored yellow. Just movie aesthetic or whatever. Did she use a normal blue Lion Fist before that point?



Raniero said:


> Breaking Madara's Susanoo's ribcage (and his durability with that thing is, what, city level? mountain level?) > that town level feat



Breaking Kaguya's horn > breaking Madara's ribcage.


----------



## Konoha Sev7n (Feb 28, 2016)

hinata surpass neji by outliving him by surviving the 4th ninja war, moon crisis and adulthood along with continuing her bloodline through offspring ..lol a skill of the fittest lol


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 28, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Repeating yourself won't make you any more correct  There is no evidence to prove your claim being one hundred percent true either, so your claim may not be true.



Once again negative proof hence poor logic. Do you have any other arguments, because if not then we are done here.



> Unlike you, I never said such a thing was true. It's no less possible than anything you have claimed. I could easily say it's wishful thinking to say she hasn't improved, based on your conjecture, your conclusion based off of incomplete or vague information.



The picture has already been painted.



> Do you not understand English? Let me simplify.
> Kurenai was 27. Recently promoted a Jounin. She was an active duty Chunin until she was around 27. Was not married or had kids. Was an expert Genjutsu user, in the meantime.



She got promoted at the beginning of the series, finally meeting the requirements to be a jounin. Simple. The future is not what we are talking about here, its what we know so far.



> An assumption.



Getting treated like fodder hence negged.



> Trying to be witty doesn't help your argument.



I'm not.



> *Not showing the fight means nothing*, regardless of how you want to shape it into something, as a great deal of events in that movie were cut or just not shown. Even if the fight was not shown due to the end result being obvious, it doesn't change my point.




It means precisely what it reflects: the battle was irrelevant.
Your point was already deemed redundant:


> Its the nature of defeat.





> Already addressed and debunked.



Lets see:
- Is Hinata still a chunin at 30+...yes
- Did she get negged like fodder in Boruto.... yes
- Were her only notable feats in The Last her Hamura power up that had no personal battle use....yes

This is just denial now 



> Ironic, since that is literally all your arguments rely on. You're extremely lacking in self-awareness.
> 
> Could be and maybes is literally all that can be said of whether or not she improved. Stop thinking your _conjecture _is _fact_. I say there isn't enough information to support either or, so I'm the only one here who is being unbiased.



There is. The picture has already been painted. Your arguments to refute said picture are maybes and could be's. I think we are done here.


----------



## Toph (Feb 28, 2016)

Zef said:


> Tsunade has shown nothing of this caliber
> -snip-
> 
> Feats to the contrary are welcomed



I'm pretty sure as hell Tsunade can pull off that punch, probably even better considering the fact that she's blessed with Senju and Uzumaki genetics, thus, her super strength is natural. Contrast to Sakura, her super strength is anything _but_ natural given the fact that she simply concentrates her chakra in her fist into a single point and then explodes it on impact.

For two, if we have to go this far, Tsunade smashed Madara's Susanoo ribcage which had the ability to slice mountains like they were butter contrast to a bunch of fodders who has the destructive capability to wreck a town like Raniero pointed out.



VolatileSoul said:


> Breaking Kaguya's horn > breaking Madara's ribcage.



I already called that petty punch out in another thread. Getting a cheap-shot on a millenia years old bitch who can see 359 degrees and has a hidden spot around her is bullshit. For one thing, author favoritism granting her a moment, so "muh team 7" can stay relevant.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 28, 2016)

Susano'o is pegged as the ultimate defense, Kaguya's horn most definitely is not. Breaking the former is much more impressive than the latter.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Feb 28, 2016)

One mention of Sakura vs Tsunade and the entire thread derails... while people still have nothing but second-hand statements and comparisons of explosions, etc. Baseless arguments. As if Hashirama's arguments, with him being dead before Tsunade ever reached her prime, matter? It's like NarSak claiming that what Sai says about love is relevant... And the entire thread is made even more ironic when 



Zensuki said:


> Lets see:
> - Is Hinata still a chunin at 30+...yes
> - Did she get negged like fodder in Boruto.... yes
> - Were her only notable feats in The Last her Hamura power up that had no personal battle use....yes
> ...



Look at Gaiden: Sakura is a jonin, housewife, and gets beaten up by shin-fodder which even Sarada (not even a genin) can solo. Why do people insist on pulling down Hinata while hyping up their favourite in other threads with the exact same arguments? Other than making these sorts of threads funny to read, it just seems rather silly 

Although Hinata is still below Neji in terms of combat prowess. But who gives a damn? Everyone of the rookies except Naruto and Sasuke would be beaten by Neji. The dude wasn't called a genius from Konoha's strongest clan for no reason


----------



## Blu-ray (Feb 28, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> For two, if we have to go this far, Tsunade smashed Madara's Susanoo ribcage which had the ability to slice mountains like they were butter contrast to a bunch of fodders who has the destructive capability to wreck a town like Raniero pointed out.



It's the Complete Body form that has the ability to slice mountains, not the Ribcage, which is the form Tsunade broke. That form can neither dish out nor take that kind of power.



> I already called that petty punch out in another thread. Getting a cheap-shot on a millenia years old bitch who can see 359 degrees and has a hidden spot around her is bullshit. For one thing, author favoritism granting her a moment, so "muh team 7" can stay relevant.



How does this change the reality of what happened at all? "It's bullshit," true as it may be, isn't even an excuse since that entire fight was filled with it.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Susano'o is pegged as the ultimate defense, Kaguya's horn most definitely is not. Breaking the former is much more impressive than the latter.



Kaguya was hailed as the closest thing to a god while the Ribcage is weakest stage of Susano'o. 

Can't contest the fact that her horn isn't hyped as durable, but no part of her body was, yet was still evidently more durable than Susano'o's ribcage.


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 28, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Look at Gaiden: Sakura is a jonin, housewife, and gets beaten up by shin-fodder which even Sarada (not even a genin) can solo. Why do people insist on pulling down Hinata while hyping up their favourite in other threads with the exact same arguments? Other than making these sorts of threads funny to read, it just seems rather silly
> 
> Although Hinata is still below Neji in terms of combat prowess. But who gives a damn? Everyone of the rookies except Naruto and Sasuke would be beaten by Neji. The dude wasn't called a genius from Konoha's strongest clan for no reason



Last time I checked Sakura one shotted Shin. Her getting caught by his MS jutsu is exactly what happened to Naruto and Sasuke. Try again.


----------



## Elicit94 (Feb 28, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Seto Kaiba said:
> 
> 
> > He only died in the first place because her ass couldn't keep up.
> ...


But what exactly was Kishi trying to express by having Neji die? That you can willfully choose your own fate, right? Why does it have to be in death in particular? It just seems like he was killed just to become cupid for the NH pairing. Then he just throws all these "red herrings" as if he was never really devoted to it. 

It's like it was exactly as I stated before in the pairing subforum, if something resonates with you in this manga, it's entirely coincidental. Kishi doesn't seem to be able to keep his editors in line, so the story expresses itself in a way that shows. At the surface NaruHina isn't a bad pairing, it's just when all these implications are thrown that people get upset about it. It just doesn't seem healthy to cling to this manga.


----------



## Toph (Feb 28, 2016)

VolatileSoul said:


> It's the Complete Body form that has the ability to slice mountains, not the Ribcage, which is the form Tsunade broke. That form can neither dish out nor take that kind of power.



Ah, nearly forgot. My bad.



> How does this change the reality of what happened at all? "It's bullshit," true as it may be, isn't even an excuse since that entire fight was filled with it.



If you acknowledge the punch was bullshit, along with the majority of the fight against Kaguya, why are you using it for argument then? It's still bullshit by the end of the day, nothing will change that. The teamwork between Team 7 during that fight was really contrived and silly. Kakashi got a bullshit power-up out of his ass that basically made him immune to Kaguya and also gave him a super effective attack against her and while Naruto and Sasuke were good with their usual bait and switch tactics, Sakura is just suddenly out of nowhere, brought in, because "muh team 7" and does something any Naruto clone could have done. Then Kaguya, who has the All-Seeing Byakugan, manages to get sucker punched and not even in the Byakugan's blindspot. It's like she just suddenly forgot that there were enemies around her. How the hell are we supposed to take a villain like her seriously and into consideration when she just casually forgets to use her powers and moseyed around like some retard?


----------



## Zef (Feb 28, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> One mention of Sakura vs Tsunade and the entire thread derails... while people still have nothing but second-hand statements and comparisons of explosions, etc. Baseless arguments. As if Hashirama's arguments, with him being dead before Tsunade ever reached her prime, matter?


Yes it matters. When Kishi writes this stuff his though process isn't *"I'll have this character hype up another even though they don't know what they're talking about"*, what would be the point? It's a waste of panels. 


> Look at Gaiden: Sakura is a jonin, housewife, and gets beaten up by shin-fodder which even Sarada (not even a genin) can solo.


Sarada soloed the Shin *clones*, not the original. Sasuke did that.
And Sakura held back so Shin could be interrogated.:ignoramus 


> Why do people insist on pulling down Hinata while hyping up their favourite in other threads with the exact same arguments?


I was putting down Hinata long before I brought up Sakura. You're the one who gave examples like Sakura v Tsunade, even though Sakura at the very least has feats & hype. 
Hinata lacks both to even put her against Neji.


> Although Hinata is still below Neji in terms of combat prowess. But who gives a damn? Everyone of the rookies except Naruto and Sasuke would be beaten by Neji. The dude wasn't called a genius from Konoha's strongest clan for no reason


I actually think Lee, Chouji, Sakura, and perhaps Shikamaru could beat him based on feats.


----------



## Blu-ray (Feb 28, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> If you acknowledge the punch was bullshit, along with the majority of the fight against Kaguya, why are you using it for argument then? It's still bullshit by the end of the day, nothing will change that.



Because it's still a thing that happened. I'm not gonna disregard it because it made zero sense or because it was hamfisted and forced as fuck, because then I'd have to disregard 3 quarters of the manga.

Sides, while I acknowledge the punch connecting in the first place as bullshit, not so the actual punch damaging her. Though even that was wonky as hell.



> The teamwork between Team 7 during that fight was really contrived and silly. Kakashi got a bullshit power-up out of his ass that basically made him immune to Kaguya and also gave him a super effective attack against her and while Naruto and Sasuke were good with their usual bait and switch tactics, Sakura is just suddenly out of nowhere, brought in, because "muh team 7" and does something any Naruto clone could have done. Then Kaguya, who has the All-Seeing Byakugan, manages to get sucker punched and not even in the Byakugan's blindspot. It's like she just suddenly forgot that there were enemies around her.



As far as meta goes, this is all true.



> How the hell are we supposed to take a villain like her seriously and into consideration when she just casually forgets to use her powers and moseyed around like some retard?



I personally don't, and I'm not really sure who does. Even then though, forgetting your powers and losing because of it was a thing ever since Obito got the Rinnegan, then the same thing happened to Madara. It was bullshit all around.

Anyway we kinda went off on a tangent here, especially since OP made a point of not wanting Sakura to muck up his thread.


----------



## LesExit (Feb 28, 2016)

Thread about Neji and Hinata.

Sakura still ends up getting dragged in it

  

damn guys.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Feb 28, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Last time I checked Sakura one shotted Shin. Her getting caught by his MS jutsu is exactly what happened to Naruto and Sasuke. Try again.



I wonder what kind of definition you hold for 'oneshotted'. 



Zef said:


> Yes it matters. When Kishi writes this stuff his though process isn't *"I'll have this character hype up another even though they don't know what they're talking about"*, what would be the point? It's a waste of panels.



Kishimoto purposely added panels to fool the fandom that NarSak was there, even when it wasn't. Itachi was hyped from the planet, the Naruto wanking was more important than fighting for an entire army, etc, etc. Obito's endless ranting? How many examples of wasted panels do you want? And can you honestly not think of a single occasion where Kishimoto countered his previous statements for no reason at all? 



Zef said:


> Sarada soloed the Shin *clones*, not the original. Sasuke did that.
> And Sakura held back so Shin could be interrogated.:ignoramus



Shin was fodder too. He was already weakened. And at the time, the defence for Sakura getting her ass whooped was that Shin was backed by the Fodder, wasn't it? Her holding back though... I suppose that explains the bruises, the shrieking, the panting, and the way she wobbled afterwards? Please... 



Zef said:


> I was putting down Hinata long before I brought up Sakura. You're the one who gave examples like Sakura v Tsunade, even though Sakura at the very least has feats & hype.
> Hinata lacks both to even put her against Neji.



An 'example' isn't a reason to start ranting about Sakura, is it? The example served a completely different purpose. (I'm not saying this to you, but to all who derailed the thread with this shit). I simply meant to give examples of other discussions which were infected by weird claims. Much like Hinata's supposed boost by the chakra she got from Hamura isn't really solid evidence as we never saw her apply it in combat. The fact that she got beaten offpanel in the later movie only adds to the point that we hardly have a proper estimate from her current ability.

All we really have is her rank, chunin, which is lower than Neji's. Then again, Naruto was a genin when he single-handedly turned the tides of the entire war. So ranks aren't really good evidence either. Hinata might have hype through the chakra boost, but feats... none. 



Zef said:


> I actually think Lee, Chouji, Sakura, and perhaps Shikamaru could beat him based on feats.



Lee with his gates might pose a threat to Neji, given that it makes him one of the fastest shinobi alive. Choji and Sakura are wayyy to slow to prevent Neji from closing down their tenketsu. Shikamaru... he'd be able to outsmart Neji. Depending on the circumstance, he might indeed win. But once Neji gets close Shika is a goner.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 28, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> -smip-


I won't waste my time any further than a hypocritical fantard who continues to attempt to talk in circles and refuses to actually address what I'm saying 

Like I said, all you've been using is _conjecture_. You only have three vague examples to go on to paint a complete picture and try to pass it off as fact. This kind of arrogance from a SasuSaku fan is hilarious as fuck, but expected. 



> She got promoted at the beginning of the series, finally meeting the requirements to be a jounin. Simple. The future is not what we are talking about here, its what we know so far.


Also, thanks for confirming you lack the ability to comprehend basic English, because this has fuck all to do with what I said. I figured I was wasting my time, but thanks for confirming it for me without a doubt. 



VolatileSoul said:


> *Breaking Kaguya's horn* > breaking Madara's ribcage.


Do people actually think this is a passable feat? Kaguya is sitting somewhere around continent level range at the least and we know for a fact Sakura isn't that strong. Assuming the horn isn't a weak spot, then her breaking that horn is what we call an *outlier*. 

Also, people bringing up Sakura one-shotting Shin--she caught him off guard and sucker punched him. It's basically the Goku and Sorbet ring example all over again.


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 28, 2016)

Zef said:


> Tsunade has shown nothing of this caliber
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



According to Hashirama Tsunade did do that kind of stuff when she was younger. As he said Sakura "might" be stronger, instead of saying she was _definity_ stronger.

And he never saw Tsunade in her prime.


----------



## Zef (Feb 28, 2016)

ℜai said:


> That was a Juubimon not Sakura.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


I thought as such. I found the image on Narutobase 


-Ziltoid- said:


> Kishimoto purposely added panels to fool the fandom that NarSak was there,


Don't use NaruSaku as an argument....
......When every time people thought Sakura was finally over Sasuke; Kishi gave random reminders that this wasn't the case. 
Like seriously.......her feelings for him were brought up in every damn arc. There's no excuse for NS. None.

And please do not derail this into pairings.



> Itachi was hyped from the planet, the Naruto wanking was more important than fighting for an entire army, etc, etc. Obito's endless ranting? How many examples of wasted panels do you want? And can you honestly not think of a single occasion where Kishimoto countered his previous statements for no reason at all?


I'm not talking about any basic character dialogue. I'm talking about characters making statements, or having inner monologues that would be a waste of exposition if it meant nothing. 
A character isn't just gonna ponder on something if it isn't true, or adds nothing to the story. 


> Shin was fodder too. He was already weakened.


Who was Shin weakened by?




> And at the time, the defence for Sakura getting her ass whooped was that Shin was backed by the Fodder, wasn't it?


I have no idea what you're talking about. 
Shin is the fodder according to you, so what fodder backed Shin?


> Her holding back though... I suppose that explains the bruises, the shrieking, the panting, and the way she wobbled afterwards? Please...


Yes, holding back. As she said here.



Because she could have ended him here.


But then Sasuke would have no one to question.  



> An 'example' isn't a reason to start ranting about Sakura, is it


I disagreed with your examples. HoroHoro said there were no panels showing Sakura > Tsunade. I then posted a panel.

There was no rant. 



> Lee with his gates might pose a threat to Neji, given that it makes him one of the fastest shinobi alive. Choji and Sakura are wayyy to slow to prevent Neji from closing down their tenketsu. Shikamaru... he'd be able to outsmart Neji. Depending on the circumstance, he might indeed win. But once Neji gets close Shika is a goner.


-Lee can cut meteors in The Last. 

-Chouji steps on Neji


-Sakura can briefly out speed Kaguya's arm.

-Shikimaru I admit is debatable, but he held back two of the Boruto movie villains for some time.


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 28, 2016)

Sakura was later shown to be slower than base Naruto. 

Took her a whole day to reach the Village of The End. While it took Naruto minutes at most.


----------



## Zef (Feb 28, 2016)

Zero Requiem said:


> Sakura was later shown to be slower than base Naruto.
> 
> Took her a whole day to reach the Village of The End. While it took Naruto minutes at most




1)When she woke up after being knocked out, Naruto & Sasuke's fight was nearly  over.

2)She was carrying Kakashi when she did arrive at  VOTE.


----------



## Toph (Feb 28, 2016)

Zero Requiem said:


> Sakura was later shown to be slower than base Naruto.
> 
> Took her a whole day to reach the Village of The End. While it took Naruto minutes at most.



#JustSakuraThings


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 28, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> #JustSakuraThings



#Can'tRead


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 28, 2016)

Zef said:


> 1)When she woke up after being knocked out, Naruto & Sasuke's fight was nearly  over.
> 
> 2)She was carrying Kakashi when she did arrive at  VOTE.



1) She was just genjutsu'd. Shouldn't effect her speed.

2) Tsunade left up a giant knife with ease.


----------



## Toph (Feb 28, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> #Can'tRead



Arent you the one who has been dodging all of my counter arguments the entire time, and has yet to answer to my points

Iz dat sum hypocrisy I smellz? Hmmmmmm~?


----------



## Raniero (Feb 28, 2016)

Shouldn't Sakura have been well rested after being knocked out for that long though? 

Also, for somebody as strong as Sakura, carrying a 150 lb man shouldn't affect her speed too much.



HoroHoro said:


> Arent you the one who has been dodging all of my counter arguments the entire time, and has yet to answer to my points
> 
> Iz dat sum hypocrisy I smellz? Hmmmmmm~?


It's always the same shit with that guy. Don't expect too much


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 28, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> Arent you the one who has been dodging all of my counter arguments the entire time, and has yet to answer to my points
> 
> Iz dat sum hypocrisy I smellz? Hmmmmmm~?



You mean the posts that got deleted 
If not then its most likely because my previous posts already had such answers.


----------



## Corvida (Feb 28, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Shouldn't Sakura have been well rested after being knocked out for that long though?
> 
> Also, for somebody as strong as Sakura, carrying a 150 lb man shouldn't affect her speed too much.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 28, 2016)

Great, now Corvida is here to post stalk me again, no doubt get mad about me saying something about Sakura, while not once caring about people saying shit about Hinata, despite proclaiming herself a Hinata fan (much like the Ino thread) 

Maybe I should block again


----------



## Corvida (Feb 28, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Great, now Corvida is here to post stalk me again, no doubt get mad about me saying something about Sakura



Hey hey hey dont get maricomplejines again , Raniero.

I was simply having a blast with you_ actually _calculating?s poor  future hokage Kakashi  weight, simply as that.

Chakra control.......




> , while not once caring about people saying shit about Hinata, despite proclaiming herself a Hinata fan (much like the Ino thread)



Pffff. And always will be. No matter having people llke  you, Zilt or that new kid cc whateves pululating, nothing will delete the chuunin exams. 
Besides, I hate Neji with a passion so I consider Hinata surpassed him in mere class simply by thelkling with were his sourness was first time they talked in the manga

ansd by the way-voted.por cojones.

What Ino thread?


----------



## Raniero (Feb 28, 2016)

Corvida said:


> I was simply having a blast with you_ actually _calculating?s poor  future hokage Kakashi  weight, simply as that.


I got his weight from the databook though


----------



## LesExit (Feb 28, 2016)

This thread is completely off track. 
It deserves to be locked ( 　ﾟ,_ゝﾟ).


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 28, 2016)

Agreed.


----------



## Blu-ray (Feb 28, 2016)

Raniero said:


> people actually think this is a passable feat? Kaguya is sitting somewhere around continent level range at the least and we know for a fact Sakura isn't that strong. Assuming the horn isn't a weak spot, then her breaking that horn is what we call an *outlier*.



Battledome scaling and logic Kishi gives nary a fuck about aside, yes. If Sakura tried to damage something less durable and failed, then there'd be a basis for the assertion that she's factually not that strong. But since that's never happened, no such contradiction exists.



> Also, people bringing up Sakura one-shotting Shin--she caught him off guard and sucker punched him. It's basically the Goku and Sorbet ring example all over again.


I for one find it refreshing that a Ninja actually acts like a Ninja for once.


----------



## Kurama (Feb 28, 2016)

Hinata thread dissolves into Sakura wank. Who couldve guessed.

Back to the topic, the only thing Neji has that Hinata lacks is Kaiten/Full Body Blow, but she has twin lion fists and Hamura's chakra, a bigger byakugan range and higher stamina. In general hand to hand it could go either way as they've been established as equals during the war by the man who trained both, Hiashi. Neji died, Hinata raised her children [though she trains them in jyuuken as well, skilled enough to teach Boruto who has not unlocked Byakugan]. I'd say she's caught up to her cousin in her own way. Of course, Hinata haters/Neji fanboys will swear he totally eclipses her in skill which is plain silly.


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 28, 2016)

VolatileSoul said:


> Battledome scaling and logic Kishi gives nary a fuck about aside, yes. If Sakura tried to damage something less durable and failed, then there'd be a basis for the assertion that she's factually not that strong. *But since that's never happened, no such contradiction exists.*
> 
> 
> I for one find it refreshing that a Ninja actually acts like a Ninja for once.



There was. Sakura was completely useless against Spiral Zetsu. 

Just saying.


----------



## Lord Trollbias (Feb 28, 2016)

How the fuck has a Hinata-Neji thread turned into a debate about Sakura?


----------



## InoxUzumaki (Feb 28, 2016)

Kurama said:


> Hinata thread dissolves into Sakura wank. Who couldve guessed.
> 
> Back to the topic, the only thing Neji has that Hinata lacks is Kaiten/Full Body Blow, but she has twin lion fists and Hamura's chakra, a bigger byakugan range and higher stamina. In general hand to hand it could go either way as they've been established as equals during the war by the man who trained both, Hiashi. Neji died, Hinata raised her children [though she trains them in jyuuken as well, skilled enough to teach Boruto who has not unlocked Byakugan]. I'd say she's caught up to her cousin in her own way. Of course, Hinata haters/Neji fanboys will swear he totally eclipses her in skill which is plain silly.



Her having "Hamura's chakra" didn't help her during the Boruto Movie and clearly she didn't do anything with it outside the last. Seems like a one time only thing honestly. I wonder if she's even matched Hanabi and has it even been stated that she's surpassed or even caught up with Neji via the manga or at least databooks?


----------



## Blu-ray (Feb 29, 2016)

Zero Requiem said:


> There was. Sakura was completely useless against Spiral Zetsu.
> 
> Just saying.


Because she had almost zero chakra left, to the point she couldn't even use Medical Ninjutsu anymore.

Of course, she was conveniently refilled once Naruto was no longer dying only a little bit later for some reason.


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 29, 2016)

Lord Trollbias said:


> How the fuck has a Hinata-Neji thread turned into a debate about Sakura?



I think people are still trying to answer the same age-old question: who's the real heroine of the series? Sakura or Hinata?


----------



## dinosaur ninja (Feb 29, 2016)

LesExit said:


> Thread about Neji and Hinata.
> 
> Sakura still ends up getting dragged in it
> 
> ...


----------



## Meat (Feb 29, 2016)

I knew it. People can't resist dragging Sakura in a Hinata thread. They really can't control their insecurities.


----------



## SoulFire (Feb 29, 2016)

It really doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things. Hinata is where she wanted to be. She had no interest in competing with Neji regarding abilities and power: She simply wanted to better herself and be the best that _she_ could be. It is no sin to be a chuunin and means little when you consider that Naruto himself is still a genin.


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 29, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> It really doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things. Hinata is where she wanted to be. *She had no interest in competing with Neji regarding abilities and power: She simply wanted to better herself and be the best that she could be*. It is no sin to be a chuunin and means little when you consider that Naruto himself is still a genin.



FINALLY! Somebody with some sense who actually has a understanding of canon!Hinata's character!!!

Heaven!


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 29, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> It really doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things. Hinata is where she wanted to be. She had no interest in competing with Neji regarding abilities and power: She simply wanted to better herself and be the best that _she_ could be. It is no sin to be a chuunin and means little when you consider that Naruto himself is still a genin.



I agree but Naruto's rank is now Hokage.


----------



## Raniero (Feb 29, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> It really doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things. Hinata is where she wanted to be. She had no interest in competing with Neji regarding abilities and power: She simply wanted to better herself and be the best that _she_ could be. It is no sin to be a chuunin and means little when you consider that Naruto himself is still a genin.


Yeah, but sadly it doesn't stop her haters from mocking her due to this. 

I'll even admit Sakura suffers from this treatment. The amount of feminazis bashing these characters for choosing to be housewives who care for their children over being trained assassins and mercenaries in a time of peace  



hustler's ambition said:


> FINALLY! Somebody with some sense who actually has a understanding of canon!Hinata's character!!!
> 
> Heaven!


Yeah, no shit  You act like nobody knows this.


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 29, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Yeah, no shit  You act like nobody knows this.



I'm assuming that's why this thread was made... because people knew.


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 29, 2016)

VolatileSoul said:


> Because she had *almost zero chakra left*, to the point she couldn't even use Medical Ninjutsu anymore.
> 
> Of course, she was conveniently refilled once Naruto was no longer dying only a little bit later for some reason.



Yet that seal was still on her forehead and a chakra cloak. 

And she should have been low on chakra when she punched Kaguya after opening those portals(another plot hole).


----------



## LesExit (Feb 29, 2016)

hustler's ambition said:


> I think people are still trying to answer the same age-old question: who's the real heroine of the series? Sakura or Hinata?


Freaking hate the Sakura vs Hinata nonsense. Hinata and Sakura co-hokages 2k16


dinosaur ninja said:


>


I'm a fan 


Meat said:


> I knew it. People can't resist dragging Sakura in a Hinata thread. They really can't control their insecurities.


Sadly this is true...


SoulFire! said:


> It really doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things. Hinata is where she wanted to be. She had no interest in competing with Neji regarding abilities and power: She simply wanted to better herself and be the best that _she_ could be. It is no sin to be a chuunin and means little when you consider that Naruto himself is still a genin.


Thanks for saying this Soul. It's why I like Hinata so much, she wanted to simply be the best she could be and not give up. Nothing was ever a competition with her. The will to not give up, even when so many were pushing her down is really what her true strength is. 


Raniero said:


> Yeah, no shit  You act like nobody knows this.


A lot of people at least _act_ like they don't


----------



## Blu-ray (Feb 29, 2016)

Zero Requiem said:


> Yet that seal was still on her forehead and a chakra cloak.
> 
> And she should have been low on chakra when she punched Kaguya after opening those portals(another plot hole).


The cloak and seal is another instance of Kishi not caring, like the eyeless Susano'o.

True, hell she shouldn't have had any to open those portals in the first place. That arc was rife with Kishi not caring.


----------



## SoulFire (Feb 29, 2016)

hustler's ambition said:


> FINALLY! Somebody with some sense who actually has a understanding of canon!Hinata's character!!!
> 
> Heaven!


I dunno about the 'canon!Hinata' business.  But I like to think I understand Hinata's character. 


Zensuki said:


> I agree but Naruto's rank is now Hokage.


No, Naruto's position and title is Hokage: His _rank_ is genin. 


Raniero said:


> Yeah, but sadly it doesn't stop her haters from mocking her due to this.
> 
> I'll even admit Sakura suffers from this treatment. The amount of feminazis bashing these characters for choosing to be housewives who care for their children over being trained assassins and mercenaries in a time of peace



I don't understand hating on any of the characters--and certainly not on the women who chose to take time out to raise the next generation.


----------



## Zensuki (Feb 29, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> No, Naruto's position and title is Hokage: His _rank_ is genin.



I'm pretty sure Kage is considered a rank


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 29, 2016)

Yeah, the term "Kage level" has been thrown around in the series. Even Naruto wiki lists Naruto's rank in Gaiden as a Kage rather than a genin.

Besides, there is no way Naruto is considered a genin if he is the leading the village. Genin means lowest in rank.


----------



## db84x (Feb 29, 2016)

Now Naruto got highest rank, that only matter


----------



## hustler's ambition (Feb 29, 2016)

LesExit said:


> Freaking hate the Sakura vs Hinata nonsense. Hinata and Sakura co-hokages 2k16



Compairing apples and oranges. Sakura and Hinata are two very different women, with different skill-sets, personalities, etc. Heck, I'd say the only thing they have in common is they're both married to a member of Team 7. 

I don't particularly care for either of the characters. I never liked Sakura (I'm indifferent to her now), and I used to be a huge fan of Hinata, but her fanbase killed it for me.  

But the everlasting Sakura v. Hinata crap is a waste of time. And this is coming from someone who used to engage in that peripheral battle. The series is over and both Sakura and Hinata are settled in their lives. What exactly are fans arguing about? 

Guy for Hokage 2k16 



SoulFire! said:


> I dunno about the 'canon!Hinata' business.  But I like to think I understand Hinata's character.



There's definitely two Hinatas: fanon!Hinata and canon!Hinata. Hinata's character isn't difficult to understand, but people tend to embellish her character and create this... well... Mary Sue, superwoman. And while that's fine and dandy, there's nothing wrong with fanon, fan interpretations, headcanons and such (it's all harmless fun--or rather it should be anyway), it seems most people can't separate fanon from canon. That's where the problem arises.


----------



## LesExit (Feb 29, 2016)

hustler's ambition said:


> Compairing apples and oranges. Sakura and Hinata are two very different women, with different skill-sets, personalities, etc. Heck, I'd say the only thing they have in common is they're both married to a member of Team 7.
> 
> I don't particularly care for either of the characters. I never liked Sakura (I'm indifferent to her now), and I used to be a huge fan of Hinata, but her fanbase killed it for me.
> 
> ...


Yup they're both very different. 

I don't really know why people still argue...Probably just an outcome of the pairing debates. I'm just surprised it's still this strong when the series has been over for as long as it has now :0

Guy as hokage...wow...I can't even imagine. He'd probably create a holiday dedicated to Youth, where there'd be a village-wide marathon or something


----------



## SoulFire (Mar 1, 2016)

hustler's ambition said:


> Compairing apples and oranges. Sakura and Hinata are two very different women, with different skill-sets, personalities, etc. Heck, I'd say the only thing they have in common is they're both married to a member of Team 7.
> 
> I don't particularly care for either of the characters. I never liked Sakura (I'm indifferent to her now), and I used to be a huge fan of Hinata, but her fanbase killed it for me.
> 
> ...



Ah, well. I am a part of Hinata's fanbase--and am a devout Naruto and NH fan as well (Naru being my #1).  

Fans who over hype their favorite characters exist in every fandom out there. Most of those whom I interact with who share my fandom are not in that category. The fact that some fans have more grandiose visions of characters doesn't turn me against the characters themselves or my OTP: I just let it roll off like water on a duck's back. What does it really matter if some like to refer to Sakura as a queen or Hinata as a princess anyway? 

Guy as Hokage would mean everyone would be up a dawn walking the circumference of Konoha on their hands!!


----------



## Kurama (Mar 1, 2016)

Wouldve been pretty damn cool to see a Hinata/Sakura tag team in the Boruto movie alongside the Naruto/Sasuke one. I mean yea the guys are practically demigods but their wives would turn you into mush. Shattered bones and decimated organs. Ouch.

Those who "embellish" Hinata's character are simply having fun. She has alot of potential as a character, nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Cormag (Mar 1, 2016)

no. no, she did not. the entire point to her character (as little as there is to her) is the ethical dilemma created by the fact that the branch family's recent generation was insurmountably stronger than the main family's most recent heir.

even if the war went on for hinata's entire life, she would have never surpassed neji. hard work can only get you so far (ignoring the fact that neji was more than tenfold a hard worker than hinata ever was) and the notion that genius does not win the race vs. the hard worker was dropped entirely in part 2 when it was revealed that everything's destined by fate.


----------



## Kurama (Mar 1, 2016)

Cormag said:


> no. no, she did not. the entire point to her character (as little as there is to her) is the ethical dilemma created by the fact that the branch family's recent generation was insurmountably stronger than the main family's most recent heir.
> 
> even if the war went on for hinata's entire life, she would have never surpassed neji. hard work can only get you so far (ignoring the fact that neji was more than tenfold a hard worker than hinata ever was) and the notion that genius does not win the race vs. the hard worker was dropped entirely in part 2 when it was revealed that everything's destined by fate.



Couldnt be more wrong. The point of Neji's character is to defy fate. The point of Hinata's character is "by believing in yourself, you become a new person". Genius vs hard work doesnt apply here. Hinata has the same potential as Neji, she just needed self confidence.


----------



## Zensuki (Mar 1, 2016)

Neji has always had more potential than Hinata.


----------



## Cormag (Mar 1, 2016)

Kurama said:


> Couldnt be more wrong. The point of Neji's character is to defy fate. The point of Hinata's character is "by believing in yourself, you become a new person". Genius vs hard work doesnt apply here. *Hinata has the same potential as Neji, she just needed self confidence.*



 yeah, sure thing friend.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 1, 2016)

LazyWaka said:


> Even as a Hinata fan I cant deny that she's basically a massive fucking joke.


How many people missed this? Probably the realest thing said in this thread tbh.


----------



## Raniero (Mar 1, 2016)

Cormag said:


> even if the war went on for hinata's entire life, she would have never surpassed neji.


The gap was never so big as to imply anything of the sort. If he remained alive, then sure. But Neji died and where he was never able to continue to grow, the same can't be said for Hinata.



> (ignoring the fact that neji was more than tenfold a hard worker than hinata ever was)


Also, what? Wasn't the point of Neji's genius was that Hyuga techniques came easy and naturally to him while Hinata worked herself to the point where she was bleeding from her hands and still failing to make progress? 



blackguyinpinksuit said:


> How many people missed this? Probably the realest thing said in this thread tbh.


Calling yourself a fan of something and then calling it trash in the same breath is the very definition of fake. tbh.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 1, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Calling yourself a fan of something and then calling it trash in the same breath is the very definition of fake. tbh.


Maybe. I guess it's just that even as a hinata fan it's hard to accept the mediocrity of what kishi has shown/done with her. It's awesome you're at the point where you can just ignore her shittiness and focus on the good/fanfics.


----------



## Raniero (Mar 1, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Maybe. I guess it's just that even as a hinata fan it's hard to accept the mediocrity of what kishi has shown/done with her. It's awesome you're at the point where you can just ignore her shittiness and focus on the good/fanfics.


Everything has faults and yes, Hinata is mediocre. But if you only concentrate on the faults and don't think the good is redeemable enough, then what's the point of calling yourself a fan of something you obviously dislike? 

If I consider a character a big fucking joke (like I do Obito), I don't consider myself a fan of that character. But that's just me.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 1, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Everything has faults and yes, Hinata is mediocre. But if you only concentrate on the faults and don't think the good is redeemable enough, how can you call yourself a fan?


It's possible but i'm not sure that person would be considered a "true fan" or whatever. There obviously people who are into the naruto/hinata relationship but are displeased with how it unfolded in the end. People liked the route hinata's personal character growth(without naruto) was on but some developments during the trip annoyed them. Some people might just not like how weak she is.

I'm sure waka is a fan of hinata at some base level but some stuff that happened just really don't sit well with him. Might affect him more than it affects you.



> Not saying there isn't anything wrong with it, but what's the point of calling yourself a fan of something you dislike?


Depends on how much of a fan you are imo. I mean if you're just always ranting and screaming about how terrible everything is that happened to the character but still say you love it that's kinda silly. Going to read OOC fanfics or acknowledging kishi wrote some about the character in a shit way and talking on it isn't something i'd call fake tho. 


> If I consider a character a big fucking joke (like I do Obito), I don't consider myself a fan of that character. But that's just me.


That's a way to see it. Can't really speak for him but if i had to guess he meant it in the way most people mean it about naruto(manga). So many members who got paragraphs on top of paragraphs of not so flattering criticism for the manga but they used to tune in weekly, lurk for new info and give it 7-8/10 scores.


----------



## Lance (Mar 1, 2016)

She outlived him. Thats all.


----------



## Lord Trollbias (Mar 1, 2016)

Kurama said:


> Couldnt be more wrong. The point of Neji's character is to defy fate. The point of Hinata's character is "by believing in yourself, you become a new person". Genius vs hard work doesnt apply here.* Hinata has the same potential as Neji, she just needed self confidence*.


You keep telling yourself that.


----------



## Kurama (Mar 2, 2016)

One of the databooks [might've been db1 or one of the guidebooks, they both ranked a 4/5 in potential] outright stated it. War Arc solidifies it having them fight back to back with her protecting him. Not saying you have to like it, but its a fact. Its just hilarious to me how bent out of shape some of yall can get over the thought of Hinata being on par with Neji though, as if this takes anything away from him.


----------



## Toph (Mar 2, 2016)

Kurama said:


> One of the databooks [might've been db1 or one of the guidebooks, they both ranked a 4/5 in potential] outright stated it. War Arc solidifies it having them fight back to back with her protecting him. Not saying you have to like it, but its a fact. Its just hilarious to me how bent out of shape some of yall can get over the thought of Hinata being on par with Neji though, as if this takes anything away from him.



Post a link to the databooks claiming that, or your argument is dismissed.


----------



## Zensuki (Mar 2, 2016)

Kurama said:


> One of the databooks [might've been db1 or one of the guidebooks, they both ranked a 4/5 in potential] outright stated it. War Arc solidifies it having them fight back to back with her protecting him. Not saying you have to like it, but its a fact. Its just hilarious to me how bent out of shape some of yall can get over the thought of Hinata being on par with Neji though, as if this takes anything away from him.



Link? The manga evidently shows who has more potential, it outright states this.
Fighting together = they have the same power potential now


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Mar 2, 2016)

Remember what I was talking about before? Glorifying a woobie character to make them look better than what they actually are?

Only Haku, Sasuke, and Naruto had a full five in potential. Nearly everyone had a latent potential of four, even Kakashi, an adult. It was a totally worthless stat.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Mar 2, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Link? The manga evidently shows who has more potential, it outright states this.
> Fighting together = they have the same power potential now



po?ten?tial  (pə-tĕn′shəl)
adj.
1. Capable of being but not yet in existence; latent or undeveloped: _a potential problem; a substance with many potential uses_.
2. Grammar Of, relating to, or being a verbal construction with auxiliaries such as may or can; for example, it may snow.
n.
1. The inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or future success: _an investment with a lot of potential; a singer who has the potential to become a major star_.
2. The possibility that something might happen or result from given conditions: _a tense situation with the potential to turn into a riot; farming practices that increase the potential for the erosion of topsoil._


----------



## Platypus (Mar 2, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> Post a link to the databooks claiming that, or your argument is dismissed.



As for the link:
* (DB1)*​Prominent characters have 3 additional stats below their charts:

Current ability (up to 5/5)
Potential ability (")
Luck (")

When it comes to potential (or perhaps 'came', because these databooks are outdated as hell):

```
[B]Name[/B]		[B]Potential[/B]
			[b]潜在能力[/b]
Chouji		2
Shino		4
Kiba		4
Iruka		4
Naruto		5
Sasuke		5
Might Guy	4
Shikamaru	4
Haku		5
Kakashi		4
Sakura		4
Neji			4
Hinata		4
Anko		3
Zabuza		3
Ino			3
Rock Lee	4
```


----------



## db84x (Mar 2, 2016)

Based on manga, they are equal.  Neji just have faster way to unlock his potential.


----------



## Toph (Mar 2, 2016)

Platypus said:


> As for the link:
> * (DB1)*​Prominent characters have 3 additional stats below their charts:
> 
> Current ability (up to 5/5)
> ...



Thanks, fam.

Although, I wouldn't really use the first databooks for arguments considering it's very outdated. The databook dates back to, like what? 2003, '04-ish?


----------



## Platypus (Mar 2, 2016)

2002


----------



## GamerGreg (Mar 2, 2016)

Y'know speaking of the whole Neji and Hinata subplot. I remember after reading it for the firs time, I was thinking... "when this series ends, I hope we'll see Neji and Hinata ruling the Hyuuga together." Imagine that, Neji truly free of his shackles of fate in life and Hinata proving herself, creating a balance the Hyuuga needed. Too bad Kishi ruined it by having Neji die as a cupid. 

Instead of a beautiful moment when as a symbol of yin and yang coming together, we see Hinata taking her daughter to Neji's grave "Hey cousin! Thanks for dying so I could bang Naruto!"


----------



## Young Lord Minato (Mar 2, 2016)

GamerGreg said:


> Y'know speaking of the whole Neji and Hinata subplot. I remember after reading it for the firs time, I was thinking... "when this series ends, I hope we'll see Neji and Hinata ruling the Hyuuga together." Imagine that, Neji truly free of his shackles of fate in life and Hinata proving herself, creating a balance the Hyuuga needed. Too bad Kishi ruined it by having Neji die as a cupid.
> 
> Instead of a beautiful moment when as a symbol of yin and yang coming together, we see Hinata taking her daughter to Neji's grave "Hey cousin! Thanks for dying so I could bang Naruto!"


I know, right? It really wasn't fair to Neji to kill him off; he deserved to live and see his goal of reforming the Hyuugas come to fruition. Maybe if we're lucky, the Boruto series will show the clan has reformed and gotten rid of the head vs branch hierarchy.


----------



## LesExit (Mar 2, 2016)

Young Lord Minato said:


> I know, right? It really wasn't fair to Neji to kill him off; he deserved to live and see his goal of reforming the Hyuugas come to fruition. Maybe if we're lucky, the Boruto series will show the clan has reformed and gotten rid of the head vs branch hierarchy.


I really hope we see this. So many plots that Kishi completely dropped...
You'd think it would be brought up since Naruto's kids are part hyuga ( ‾ʖ̫‾)


----------



## GamerGreg (Mar 2, 2016)

Young Lord Minato said:


> I know, right? It really wasn't fair to Neji to kill him off; he deserved to live and see his goal of reforming the Hyuugas come to fruition. Maybe if we're lucky, the Boruto series will show the clan has reformed and gotten rid of the head vs branch hierarchy.



I wouldn't hold your breath. It seems Kishi was scared to tackle the issue of the Hyuuga clan, killing off Neji and marrying Hinata out of the clan seemed like the easiest way to get out of it. ....just like how he didn't even really address the Uchiha massacre. .....*sighs* The more I think about all the holes of the ending, it's just more and more disappointing... all these unanswered questions and the big payoff was who married who.


----------



## Addy (Mar 2, 2016)

no, because she sucks.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 2, 2016)

Elicit94 said:


> There are people that have been following the story since the beginning. If something doesn't go in a way you want, you can be advised to just drop it, because nobody really knows exactly how the whole thing will end. It's stupid to emotionally black mail people that are upset about the story when at the end of the day, the whole thing is grounded by reality. What you have to say about the matter is in your values, more particularly in your own peace of mind. In order to form healthy relationships, nobody in the story should have to bend to the structure of the world itself, because a fictional story is grounded by reality. From that point of view, a fictional story could have problems similar to problems experienced in the real world, which can resonate with you emotionally and in your relationships, forming part of your identity...



Hmm...it could use some work.


----------



## balthosai (Mar 3, 2016)

Hinata didn't surpass anything.

Hanabi however, is destined to surpass Neji


----------



## Toph (Mar 3, 2016)

The more reason why Hanabi is the best girl and Hinata a shit

She's basically a female version of Neji, so I'm cool with that


----------



## Raniero (Mar 3, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> She's basically a female version of Neji


Literally what and how


----------



## Doc Mindstorm (Mar 3, 2016)

Raniero said:


> Literally what and how


Nothing and nohow. Girl has even less frame-time than Hinata(irrelevant Hinata argument) but rabid nS can twist whatever they want. 

Ps. To butthurt nS(who don't even care about Neji) go to you antis or ship section with your cupid talk.


----------



## LadyTenTen (Mar 3, 2016)

Hanabi is aggresive, confident and most likely the Hyuga clan leader in chapter 700.

I assume she is a jounin and has Hiashi's level, so we could consider she surpassed Neji, but I doubt she is as strong as he would have been if remained alive.


----------



## DavyChan (Mar 3, 2016)

She never surpassed him. Which again showed how poor Kishimoto was at finishing important plot points.


----------



## Deana (Mar 3, 2016)

Neji didn't get a chance to surpass Neji. The Konoha kids who weren't a part of team 7 got screwed over. I think two or three got a chance to show true growth but that was because two of that three was standing next to Shikamaru. 

I'm sure Hinata and Hinabi brought change to the Hyugaa's. Boruto and Himawari don't have that seal on their foreheads and I'm sure Hinabi's kids wont' have it either. And if they didn't maybe that is one character arc Boruto will have.

The main villain of Naruto, the ninja system, got off-panelled. The Hyuuga situation isn't the only one that got swept under the rug. Part II was terrible.


----------



## Zensuki (Mar 3, 2016)

Deana said:


> Neji didn't get a chance to surpass Neji. The Konoha kids who weren't a part of team 7 got screwed over. I think two or three got a chance to show true growth but that was because two of that three was standing next to Shikamaru.
> 
> I'm sure Hinata and Hinabi brought change to the Hyugaa's. Boruto and Himawari don't have that seal on their foreheads and I'm sure Hinabi's kids wont' have it either. And if they didn't maybe that is one character arc Boruto will have.
> 
> The main villain of Naruto, the ninja system, got off-panelled. The Hyuuga situation isn't the only one that got swept under the rug. Part II was terrible.



Boruto and Himawari are Uzumakis.


----------



## Deana (Mar 3, 2016)

Zensuki said:


> Boruto and Himawari are Uzumakis.


Really? I had no idea! 

It's already been shown that at least one of the little Uzumakis have the byakugan so it doesn't matter what her last name is. It would be a problem in the old system of her mother's family. Unless the system has changed, it's being hidden, or nobody knows but Boruto (since Naruto was knocked senseless).


----------



## Kurama (Mar 3, 2016)

Hanabi idolizes Hinata AND Neji, using her to drag her sister is foolish.


----------



## Toph (Mar 3, 2016)

GamerGreg said:


> Y'know speaking of the whole Neji and Hinata subplot. I remember after reading it for the firs time, I was thinking... "when this series ends, I hope we'll see Neji and Hinata ruling the Hyuuga together." Imagine that, Neji truly free of his shackles of fate in life and Hinata proving herself, creating a balance the Hyuuga needed. Too bad Kishi ruined it by having Neji die as a cupid.
> 
> Instead of a beautiful moment when as a symbol of yin and yang coming together, we see Hinata taking her daughter to Neji's grave "Hey cousin! Thanks for dying so I could bang Naruto!"



Yup, I really hate that Neji died being all like, "yippie-yay I'm free!" Whilst that narrative worked for his father, Hizashi, whose only choice in life was to take the role of Sisyphus and use that single moment to choose for himself to be a sacrifice instead of staying alive and being a pawn forever, Neji comes to the conclusion about his personal scope of influence earlier than his father does. Neji is supposed to surpass his father, he's supposed to be the one who actually frees the branch members from the Main House. For his father, freeing himself was sufficient. For Neji, not really. The Sisyphus narrative of bending to the will of those with power as a choice to retain some agency doesn't work to Neji's character.

Neji and Sasuke basically got the same treatment in the end. They both end up doing exactly what the unjust, toxic, shinobi system they wanted to reform wanted them to do, and they're both apparently happy that way. They didn't get to change jack, they just took the shits that was coming to them. Neji's narrative and character arc is cancerous and morally disgusting: "The Hyuga is bad and believe I deserve to die for the Main House because of my birth status, so I hate all of them and am prepared to kill Hinata if I get the chance since they expect me to die for her," to "I feel empowered, I actually can make a difference, not everyone is awful, I can trust some people, the Hyuga is still awful but they can be changed," to "I'm so glad I get to die for Hinata just like the Hyuga wanted me to because it's my choice."

Sasuke's narrative and character arc is quite similar to Neji's: "Konoha is bad because they literally committed genocide against my clan to avoid having to confront that they oppress us, and if they can destroy my whole life I can destroy them," to, "The ninja world isn't hopeless, it can be changed, I can make reforms, but we need a revolution," to "I'm so glad my old teammates made me see that I was wrong and I get to go back to living in the same system that led to the destruction of my family." They literally share the precise same character arc. Both characters go from being pessimistic and resentful and not thinking there's any hope in this world, to being empowered and believing they can create real changes, to finally giving in to the notion that there's no need for a change after all. Such narrative is disgusting right off the bat.



Doc Mindstorm said:


> Nothing and nohow. Girl has even less frame-time than Hinata(irrelevant Hinata argument) but rabid nS can twist whatever they want.
> 
> Ps. To butthurt nS(who don't even care about Neji) go to you antis or ship section with your cupid talk.



Lmao, you think it's only the NaruSaku stans who're pissed at the fact that Kishimoto deliberately admitted he humiliated one of his well-developed characters with the death of a cupid to establish a ship? How arrogant can you come across? Any genuine fan of Neji, fans who have standards and can see through Kishimoto's bullshit without eating his shit are all pissed at the treatment Neji received.


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## InoxUzumaki (Mar 3, 2016)

Kurama said:


> Hanabi idolizes Hinata AND Neji, using her to drag her sister is foolish.



Since when? I don't remember that being in the manga........ :thisshit


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## SoulFire (Mar 3, 2016)

Not all 'stans' are NS ones: Also on board with the 'Neji died as a tool' claim are those who favor NejiTen, NejiHin and just Neji himself. However, the stance that Neji was nothing but a cupid forced by his branch position to give his life for Hinata is simply not correct. Kishi was once again being flippant in describing the reasoning behind what transpired--he seems to enjoy yanking the strings of those interviewing him. 

Yes, Neji's death was a part of Kishimoto's plot line; yes, his death was instrumental in creating a bonding moment between Naruto and Hinata. However, the writer's plans do not equate with the character's feelings or reasons for what he did. Neji did not die for Hinata per his branch family status: Neji died protecting two very precious people: Naruto, whose survival was paramount in defeating the enemy, and Hinata, his dear 'sister'. And yes, Neji died not out of a demanded duty to the Main House but by his own choice in order to ensure the survival of the person deemed to be the only one who could end the war. It was far from a 'humilating' end.


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## Raniero (Mar 4, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> Not all 'stans' are NS ones: Also on board with the 'Neji died as a tool' claim are those who favor NejiTen, NejiHin and just Neji himself. However, the stance that Neji was nothing but a cupid forced by his branch position to give his life for Hinata is simply not correct. Kishi was once again being flippant in describing the reasoning behind what transpired--he seems to enjoy yanking the strings of those interviewing him.
> 
> Yes, Neji's death was a part of Kishimoto's plot line; yes, his death was instrumental in creating a bonding moment between Naruto and Hinata. However, the writer's plans do not equate with the character's feelings or reasons for what he did. Neji did not die for Hinata per his branch family status: Neji died protecting two very precious people: Naruto, whose survival was paramount in defeating the enemy, and Hinata, his dear 'sister'. And yes, Neji died not out of a demanded duty to the Main House but by his own choice in order to ensure the survival of the person deemed to be the only one who could end the war. It was far from a 'humilating' end.


Careful. HoroHoro is very adverse to logic. 



InoxUzumaki said:


> Since when? I don't remember that being in the manga........ :thisshit


She certainly doesn't hate her sister like people seem to think.


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## -Ziltoid- (Mar 4, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> Not all 'stans' are NS ones: Also on board with the 'Neji died as a tool' claim are those who favor NejiTen, NejiHin and just Neji himself. However, the stance that Neji was nothing but a cupid forced by his branch position to give his life for Hinata is simply not correct. Kishi was once again being flippant in describing the reasoning behind what transpired--he seems to enjoy yanking the strings of those interviewing him.
> 
> Yes, Neji's death was a part of Kishimoto's plot line; yes, his death was instrumental in creating a bonding moment between Naruto and Hinata. However, the writer's plans do not equate with the character's feelings or reasons for what he did. Neji did not die for Hinata per his branch family status: Neji died protecting two very precious people: Naruto, whose survival was paramount in defeating the enemy, and Hinata, his dear 'sister'. And yes, Neji died not out of a demanded duty to the Main House but by his own choice in order to ensure the survival of the person deemed to be the only one who could end the war. It was far from a 'humilating' end.



Agreed, yet I can understand the other point of view too, simply because Neji was one of the only named characters to die. I mean, we saw plot rescue practically every character, like Naruto, and Sasuke especially, and yet Neji died so easily. The entire war arc up to that point felt like only nameless fodder died, and suddenly there was Neji. 

At the same time Neji's actions were rather fitting to his character. He chose his own death, rather than let the clan decide his life. On the other hand... Kishimoto completely ignored the main/branch stuff from the Hyuga ever since the chunin exams, and now he suddenly brings it up again? Neji gave his life for Naruto, a logical choice, but suddenly there is a bond of friendship which was never explored before? Tsunade was cut in half, Shikamaru was practically dead, Naruto and Sasuke did die but returned through the heavenly powers of asspull, and the list goes on. Hell, Obito came back from the dead just to spread some ghostly-eyeballs! And yet Neji died from, comparatively, light injuries? 

Neji's death wasn't exactly bad. In the contrary, it was fairly realistic. But the context was simply... well, it made Neji's death feel kinda forced. Bottom line: in a war people die, yet Kishi gave everyone but Neji a plotshield.


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## LadyTenTen (Mar 4, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Agreed, yet I can understand the other point of view too, simply because Neji was one of the only named characters to die. I mean, we saw plot rescue practically every character, like Naruto, and Sasuke especially, and yet Neji died so easily. The entire war arc up to that point felt like only nameless fodder died, and suddenly there was Neji.
> 
> At the same time Neji's actions were rather fitting to his character. He chose his own death, rather than let the clan decide his life. On the other hand... Kishimoto completely ignored the main/branch stuff from the Hyuga ever since the chunin exams, and now he suddenly brings it up again? Neji gave his life for Naruto, a logical choice, but suddenly there is a bond of friendship which was never explored before? Tsunade was cut in half, Shikamaru was practically dead, Naruto and Sasuke did die but returned through the heavenly powers of asspull, and the list goes on. Hell, Obito came back from the dead just to spread some ghostly-eyeballs! And yet Neji died from, comparatively, light injuries?
> 
> Neji's death wasn't exactly bad. In the contrary, it was fairly realistic. But the context was simply... well, it made Neji's death feel kinda forced. Bottom line: in a war people die, yet Kishi gave everyone but Neji a plotshield.



Neji carried a deathflag with him since Sasuke's rescue arc in part 1 (in fact I was surprised he survived back then). The moment he understood his father chose to die instead of being forced to, he was most likely destinated to repeat the same story as Kishimoto LOVES parallels.

He wanted freedom and the only way freedom was shown to us when it comes to the Hyuga clan is death. Even the author pointed out that he achieved his goal by sacrificing himself for his beloved cousin (who he started to care about by the end of part 1) and the man who taugh him that you are free to chose your own way. Naruto is the most influential person for Neji, that's a fact.
Gai, TenTen... they really don't mean much too him if we take into account only the manga (maybe Rock Lee would have worked as he respected him as a fighter and rival?) but by far the most important ones for him are Naruto and his cousin (because muh clan) so it makes sense to sacrifize himself for them the same way his father did.

Anyway, I agree it was forced. Until that moment, all important characters had died in 1vs.1 battles, making the situation far more epic. Neji didn't have an epic farewell, a branch (it's like a joke) impaled him because his cousin and Naruto had forgoten how to DODGE.
It was lame and somehow I'm mad because Neji had chances to shine during war as he did in part 1, fighting against an edo or something... but no, he spends half war without chakra and then a branch kills him as a fodder.
Wathever.

*So, Neji's death in the story made sense from a narrative point of view?* Yes
*The ones he chose to die for were important enough for him to do so?* Yes
*The way he died was fitting?* ABSOLUTELY NOT
*NaruHina really depends on Neji dying?* No, it would have happened anyway.
*Was there another way to end Neji's story?* Yes, he should have become the clan leader... but Kishimoto loves parallels way too much.


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## SoulFire (Mar 4, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Agreed, yet I can understand the other point of view too, simply because Neji was one of the only named characters to die. I mean, we saw plot rescue practically every character, like Naruto, and Sasuke especially, and yet Neji died so easily. The entire war arc up to that point felt like only nameless fodder died, and suddenly there was Neji.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I agree that some other characters struck down in the war should have died--Tsunade especially (tearing her apart and putting her back together really seemed past her healing abilities--after all, she couldn't save Dan, who had far less damage). I don't really understand why Kishi saved her, as she had no other part in the story beyond patting Sakura on head in praise. It would have made the move of Kakashi to Hokage make more sense in the long run. I'm not even going to get into Obito's ghostly return from the grave--you want to talk asspull, this was it (I think Obito 'died' and came back multiple times during this arc--he had more lives than a cat)!

I do think that the fact that Neji died so easily was to make the point that this is a part of war: A comrade is fighting along side you and suddenly and horribly they are gone. The suddenness and bloody, terrible closeness of it sent Naruto into horrified shock, triggering Hinata's response. 



LadyTenTen said:


> Neji carried a deathflag with him since Sasuke's rescue arc in part 1 (in fact I was surprised he survived back then). The moment he understood his father chose to die instead of being forced to, he was most likely destinated to repeat the same story as Kishimoto LOVES parallels.
> 
> He wanted freedom and the only way freedom was shown to us when it comes to the Hyuga clan is death. Even the author pointed out that he achieved his goal by sacrificing himself for his beloved cousin (who he started to care about by the end of part 1) and the man who taugh him that you are free to chose your own way. Naruto is the most influential person for Neji, that's a fact.
> Gai, TenTen... they really don't mean much too him if we take into account only the manga (maybe Rock Lee would have worked as he respected him as a fighter and rival?) but by far the most important ones for him are Naruto and his cousin (because muh clan) so it makes sense to sacrifize himself for them the same way his father did.



I don't consider that the only way for Neji to achieve freedom was to die: Neji's freedom had began with his defeat by Naruto and the words that Naruto put into his head on that day. Naruto became a person whom he admired, but more importantly Naruto was necessary to win the war. Neji had pledged to protect him no matter the cost and he would have acted on that pledge in that moment had Naruto been a complete stranger to him.



> Anyway, I agree it was forced. Until that moment, all important characters had died in 1vs.1 battles, making the situation far more epic. Neji didn't have an epic farewell, a branch (it's like a joke) impaled him because his cousin and Naruto had forgoten how to DODGE.



Kishi telegraphed through Hiashi's thoughts that the incoming attack was too rapid for traditional Hyuuga defenses. On top of that, Naruto was momentarily depleted from launching several rasenshurikens and suffering from a dislocated shoulder, so he wasn't in shape to 'dodge'. Hinata wasn't about to dodge when Naruto was on the ground in front of her--her instinct was to block with the only thing she had--her body. Fortunately for them both Neji had the same idea and was positioned to shield them both.


> It was lame and somehow I'm mad because Neji had chances to shine during war as he did in part 1, fighting against an edo or something... but no, he spends half war without chakra and then a branch kills him as a fodder.
> Wathever.



It seemed to me that Neji's 'time to shine' in the war was more about the dissolution of the separation of main house and branch, showing him fighting equally alongside Hinata, each of them watching the other's back--something that Hiashi pointed out to edo Hizashi when they meet. It would have been nice for Neji to have met with his father and make the point in person, but Kishi chose a confrontation between brothers over father and son (Kishi's got this 'thing' about brothers, maybe because of his own). 



> *So, Neji's death in the story made sense from a narrative point of view?* Yes
> *The ones he chose to die for were important enough for him to do so?* Yes
> *The way he died was fitting?* ABSOLUTELY NOT
> *NaruHina really depends on Neji dying?* No, it would have happened anyway.
> *Was there another way to end Neji's story?* Yes, he should have become the clan leader... but Kishimoto loves parallels way too much.



I agree with most of these statements, though I don't consider Neji's death as unfitting as it did fit with his established character themes. It was a surprise to me, though. I expected all of the original rookies to be protected by plot shield and thought it far more likely that an addition such as Sai would die.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Toph (Mar 4, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> However, the stance that Neji was nothing but a cupid forced by his branch position to give his life for Hinata is simply not correct. Kishi was once again being flippant in describing the reasoning behind what transpired--he seems to enjoy yanking the strings of those interviewing him. Yes, Neji's death was a part of Kishimoto's plot line; yes, his death was instrumental in creating a bonding moment between Naruto and Hinata.



That's what Kishimoto said too, he played cupid so that Naruto could notice Hinata for two seconds only to continue to ignore her for another two years after the war. I guess his cupid arrow wasn't as potent as the Genjutsu in The Last.



> However, the writer's plans do not equate with the character's feelings or reasons for what he did. Neji did not die for Hinata per his branch family status:



So? I am not angry about Neji's feelings, I am frustrated at Kishimoto's disturbing views and writing. Kishimoto made all the villains bow before Naruto's Talk no Jutsu sessions without resistance and resentment too, the former fans and fans who are still affiliated with the fanbase still fucking hate it. You think people cannot be pissed at the writing just because the writer made the characters throw away their lives willingly for Kishimoto's disturbing ideology?



> Neji died protecting two very precious people: Naruto, whose survival was paramount in defeating the enemy, and Hinata, his dear 'sister'. And yes, Neji died not out of a demanded duty to the Main House but by his own choice in order to ensure the survival of the person deemed to be the only one who could end the war. It was far from a 'humilating' end.



I don't think Hinata and Naruto were Neji's precious people. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but former fans like me, and fans who are still attached to the fanbase for various of reasons think most bonds in Naruto are atrocious. Kishimoto made other antagonists put their faith in Naruto and commit suicide too, people hates that kind of narrative. They think it's contrived, the villains’ conversion to Narutoism had no dignity or reason. Neji's death is just another example of the fanbase's fatigue of Kishimoto's abuse of the self-sacrifice or suicide trope to shut up people who represent rebellion to the system. The fanbase hate the other forced self-sacrifice tropes too, including Hizashi's death. I am not going to make an exception and accept Kishimoto's writing in Neji's case, just because Hinata's involved.

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## SoulFire (Mar 4, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> That's what Kishimoto said too, he played cupid so that Naruto could notice Hinata for two seconds only to continue to ignore her for another two years after the war. I guess his cupid arrow wasn't as potent as the Genjutsu in The Last.



Yes, that is what Kishi said. I repeat, Kishi enjoys making flippant statements and joking around with his interviewers. He is seldom being serious when he says such things and basically explains elements of his writing in ways that set off the fandom in one way or another. I don't get too worked up over his displays of 'humor' regarding his story and characters. I don't let him yank my chain. 



> So? I am not angry about Neji's feelings, I am frustrated at Kishimoto's disturbing views and writing. Kishimoto made all the villains bow before Naruto's Talk no Jutsu sessions without resistance and resentment too, the former fans and fans who are still affiliated with the fanbase still fucking hate it. You think people cannot be pissed at the writing just because the writer made the characters throw away their lives willingly for Kishimoto's disturbing ideology?


Hey, it is obvious that Kishi bit off more than he could chew with Naruto--the story expanded beyond his ability to keep up and it shows. That and I'm sure he was suffering from creative burn out. Naruto came to such a rushed, spliced together conclusion that there are bound to be elements that fail to sit well with even the loyalist fan. And yet folks continue to discuss the manga a year after its end because whatever one thinks of Kishi's writing, he created a universe that drew readers in and makes it difficult to let go.

Still it is Kishi's story and his decision exactly what Neji (and every other character) was supposed to do within the plot. Grousing about it won't change a thing but one's blood pressure. 



> I don't think Hinata and Naruto were Neji's precious people. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but former fans like me, and fans who are still attached to the fanbase for various of reasons think most bonds in Naruto are atrocious. Kishimoto made other antagonists put their faith in Naruto and commit suicide too, people hates that kind of narrative. They think it's contrived, the villains’ conversion to Narutoism had no dignity or reason. Neji's death is just another example of the fanbase's fatigue of Kishimoto's abuse of the self-sacrifice or suicide trope to shut up people who represent rebellion to the system. The fanbase hate the other forced self-sacrifice tropes too, including Hizashi's death. I am not going to make an exception and accept Kishimoto's writing in Neji's case, just because Hinata's involved.


Ah, but Naruto was precious to Neji if for no other reason than the fact that he as a jinchuuriki stood the best chance of defeating the enemy. That fact alone would have driven Neji to do what he did, with or without Hinata's presence. However, I do believe that Hinata had over the years become one of Neji's precious people. His reaction to the attack on the Zetsu-Hinata and his words as he died displayed his care and concern. 

Kishi tended to avoid pairing related bonding simply because he was uncomfortable with the depiction, but I really have no problem with most character interaction (though I must admit the Naruto/Sasuke bond was a questionable can of worms ). Deaths in an action story often come in the form of sacrifice one way or another. As for TnJ, the only place where it really began to get old for me was against Obito simply because it repeated over and over.

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## Stan Lee (Mar 4, 2016)

Correction: Kishi and his first editor created a universe that drew people in.

And lets not forget that spin-offs and the anime are still happening.


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## LadyTenTen (Mar 4, 2016)

Zero Requiem said:


> Correction: Kishi and his first editor created a universe that drew people in.
> 
> And lets not forget that spin-offs and the anime are still happening.



Also games


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## SoulFire (Mar 4, 2016)

Zero Requiem said:


> Correction: Kishi and his first editor created a universe that drew people in.
> 
> And lets not forget that spin-offs and the anime are still happening.



KIshi's editors made suggestions but it was up to him to actually create the characters and situations within said universe. Kishi may have needed direction, but I believe the creative process that brought us the characters and their world was primarily that of Kishi, himself. Even characters that were forced upon him and that he had little interest in (such as Team Taka) ended up being engaging and interesting. 

Kishi has talent. Unfortunately for the manga, Naruto was his very first foray as a mangaka and it shows. The story's popularity took off and an inexperienced Kishi had an unexpected tiger by the tail that he could hardly tame on his own. Chances are his future works may be better planned out and put together.

The current state of the anime is atrocious, imo.  I'm reserving my judgement of the spin-off, hoping that the assigned artist gets his shit together and that the author remains true to the characters he has been handed.


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## Rational1955 (Mar 4, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> It seemed to me that Neji's 'time to shine' in the war was more about the dissolution of the separation of main house and branch, showing him fighting equally alongside Hinata, each of them watching the other's back



You mean this one panel here on the bottom right hand corner?  Where, apparently, Neji is having trouble once again? That was his time to shine? 


*Spoiler*: __ 








I think Kishimoto didn't give a crap about Neji after his arc was over.  Neji was probably just a character Kishimoto wished he didn't have to deal with anymore.   Kishimoto hyped Neji up in part 1 just to build the suspense and angst of his Chuunin Exam's match against Naruto.  I don't think Kishimoto realized however that since he built Neji up to be such a prodigy in part 1 that some people were going to want to see how much he had progressed in part 2.  You could argue that it is the fans fault for wanting that and being let down because the fans should've realized that Neji was just a side character and had served his purpose.  But I think their expectation was understandable because Neji was supposed to be the ULTIMATE HYUGA FIGHTER so of course people wanted to see how  far he had progressed. 

I think if Kishimoto knew that Neji was going to die he could've at least shown Neji demolishing Zetsu left and right with a new technique or two because all the other named characters that died in the manga, got to show their full strength so why not Neji?  

Now they have a new manga coming out and there is no chance for people to see him fight ever again while there is still a slither of hope for the others.  I say only "a slither of hope" because it's probably just going to focus on the new generation.


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## SoulFire (Mar 4, 2016)

Rational1955 said:


> You mean this one panel here on the bottom right hand corner?  Where, apparently, Neji is having trouble once again? That was his time to shine?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



The entire point of that scene is to drive home that the division between main and branch was no longer of consequence (iow, the changes that Naruto was determined to make in the Hyuuga have already taken place due to the conclusion of that long ago Chuunin face off between Naruto and Neji). Throughout the war arc we are shown Neji and Hinata fighting together as equals and watching one anothers' backs. It was not intended as a slight to Neji: This change in the relationship between branches of the clan, displayed in the teamwork between Neji and Hinata was what Kishi chose to focus on in order to tie up a loose end as the story approached an end.



> I think Kishimoto didn't give a crap about Neji after his arc was over.  Neji was probably just a character Kishimoto wished he didn't have to deal with anymore.   Kishimoto hyped Neji up in part 1 just to build the suspense and angst of his Chuunin Exam's match against Naruto.  I don't think Kishimoto realized however that since he built Neji up to be such a prodigy in part 1 that some people were going to want to see how much he had progressed in part 2.  You could argue that it is the fans fault for wanting that and being let down because the fans should've realized that Neji was just a side character and had served his purpose.  But I think their expectation was understandable because Neji was supposed to be the ULTIMATE HYUGA FIGHTER so of course people wanted to see how  far he had progressed.


It is likely that Kishi considered Neji's part in the story complete with the Chuunin exams. Even then Kishi continued on to give Neji a prime part in the Sasuke retrieval arc. By the time we reached part two, the rookies took a backseat to the action and seldom had a chance at the spotlight and Kishi had moved on to other things. It is for certain that any focus on the Hyuuga went by the wayside.



> I think if Kishimoto knew that Neji was going to die he could've at least shown Neji demolishing Zetsu left and right with a new technique or two because all the other named characters that died in the manga, got to show their full strength so why not Neji?
> 
> Now they have a new manga coming out and there is no chance for people to see him fight ever again while there is still a slither of hope for the others.  I say only "a slither of hope" because it's probably just going to focus on the new generation.



I think Kishi was more concerned with closing the door on the main/branch business than in showing Neji's further accomplishments. He never really showed us what Hinata's twin lions could do, either. 

True, focus in the new manga should be primarily on the next gen with perhaps a smattering here and there of parental prowess.


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## LesExit (Mar 5, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> True, focus in the new manga should be primarily on the next gen with perhaps a smattering here and there of parental prowess.


I really agree with this...
Like please give us actual new generation focus


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## LadyTenTen (Mar 5, 2016)

LesExit said:


> Like please give us actual new generation focus



The problem is that they're going to focus most likely only in three characters of the new gen and forget about the others, repeating the same mistake that Kishimoto did with their parents.

Also I would like the characters without children to shine (Shino, Kiba... TenTen is case she is single), it's kinda unfair that only the ones with kids get to be relevant somehow.


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## -Ziltoid- (Mar 5, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> True, focus in the new manga should be primarily on the next gen with perhaps a smattering here and there of parental prowess.



Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about the next gen. Kishi barely fleshed out all the original characters, and now were's supposed to care about a bunch of half-assed copies? Besides, other than Sarada and Himawari the entire new generation is rather boring. Hell, none of them really have any issues compared to their parents, except for Sarada perhaps. It's like reading about a bunch of kids whining that they don't have the latest iPhone while their parents had monsters sealed within them or insane older brothers who mindraped them for fun 

If anything, I'd be interested in seeing them resolve issues they had in the start. Like you said; how the Hyuga clan changed. Or how Naruto deals with the issues of the minor nations (which were conveniently forgotten after Nagato). Etc. Point is, after all we've been through, it is the parents who we care about most. Those are the characters we've seen developing over the last 710 chapters.


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## LadyTenTen (Mar 5, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> If anything, I'd be interested in seeing them resolve issues they had in the start. Like you said; how the Hyuga clan changed. Or how Naruto deals with the issues of the minor nations (which were conveniently forgotten after Nagato). Etc. Point is, after all we've been through, it is the parents who we care about most. Those are the characters we've seen developing over the last 710 chapters.



Exactly, most characters from the old-gen don't even have a proper closure to their stories and some misteries remain.
It's hard to worry about the problems of a whole new generation of spoiled brats when we still worry about the previous one not achieving their goals


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## SoulFire (Mar 5, 2016)

My, how this discussion has digressed (though I prefer it to the original)!



LesExit said:


> I really agree with this...
> Like please give us actual new generation focus


This isn't necessarily what I want, it's what I expect--especially with a new creative team on board. Kind of scares me to see someone else screwing around with the original characters, tbh.


-Ziltoid- said:


> Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about the next gen. Kishi barely fleshed out all the original characters, and now were's supposed to care about a bunch of half-assed copies? Besides, other than Sarada and Himawari the entire new generation is rather boring. Hell, none of them really have any issues compared to their parents, except for Sarada perhaps. It's like reading about a bunch of kids whining that they don't have the latest iPhone while their parents had monsters sealed within them or insane older brothers who mindraped them for fun
> 
> If anything, I'd be interested in seeing them resolve issues they had in the start. Like you said; how the Hyuga clan changed. Or how Naruto deals with the issues of the minor nations (which were conveniently forgotten after Nagato). Etc. Point is, after all we've been through, it is the parents who we care about most. Those are the characters we've seen developing over the last 710 chapters.



I suspect that there will be inclusion of the original cast, but only in a supportive, secondary status. They are too popular to be left out (I'd love to see more of Naruto dealing with dicey diplomatic issues, myself ) . Even with that I think that when it comes to Naruto's generation the focus will be on family interaction and primarily family interaction between the main characters. I can't imagine this new manga without the presence of Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke (and possibly Hinata, though Team 7 would be paramount).

Personally, I like the new gen (including Boruto) and think there could be interesting stories written around them. I don't expect third tier characters like Shino and Ten Ten to get any more focus than they received in the original series.

As I said earlier, I consider the Hyuuga clan issue to already be resolved. Question: Anywhere in the manga does it go into the curse seal and if it can be removed prior to death? I note that neither Hinata or Hanabi were branded, and I don't think Hiashi was particularly fond of the practice in the first place (otherwise Hinata, sent to be a kunoichi, would have been branded right away to protect the byakugan from foreign capture).


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## BiggsDarklighter (Mar 5, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> My, how this discussion has digressed (though I prefer it to the original)!
> 
> 
> This isn't necessarily what I want, it's what I expect--especially with a new creative team on board. Kind of scares me to see someone else screwing around with the original characters, tbh.
> ...



 If I recall correctly, the curse seal does not disappear until after death happens, thus sealing the byakugan. Only branch members have the seal (Hinata and Hanabi are main family members).


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## SoulFire (Mar 5, 2016)

BiggsDarklighter said:


> If I recall correctly, the curse seal does not disappear until after death happens, thus sealing the byakugan.* Only branch members have the seal (Hinata and Hanabi are main family members)*.



Then how is it that Hizashi (also a main family member alongside his twin) is deemed branch and branded with the curse seal? And where is the logic of sending unbranded main family members into battle if the curse seal is there to prevent capture of the byakugan by enemies?

*I spy my beloved Commander! Hey Kurama!!!


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## Sword Sage (Mar 5, 2016)

LadyTenTen said:


> The problem is that they're going to focus most likely only in three characters of the new gen and forget about the others, repeating the same mistake that Kishimoto did with their parents.
> 
> Also I would like the characters without children to shine (Shino, Kiba... TenTen is case she is single), it's kinda unfair that only the ones with kids get to be relevant somehow.



Thats one of the reasons why I'm not hyped up with New Gen kids, I mean why wanna make the new kids get the most attention and story arcs to where the old cast barely gotten any each character end with a high note. I mean something like each character having their own ninja battle one on one like in part 1 those were the best times. The War arc I had high expectations that only Choji gotten the spotlight but not Lee, Shino, Tenten, Hinata and KIba or even Ino for that matter.



-Ziltoid- said:


> Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about the next gen. Kishi barely fleshed out all the original characters, and now were's supposed to care about a bunch of half-assed copies? Besides, other than Sarada and Himawari the entire new generation is rather boring. Hell, none of them really have any issues compared to their parents, except for Sarada perhaps. It's like reading about a bunch of kids whining that they don't have the latest iPhone while their parents had monsters sealed within them or insane older brothers who mindraped them for fun
> 
> If anything, I'd be interested in seeing them resolve issues they had in the start. Like you said; how the Hyuga clan changed. Or how Naruto deals with the issues of the minor nations (which were conveniently forgotten after Nagato). Etc. Point is, after all we've been through, it is the parents who we care about most. Those are the characters we've seen developing over the last 710 chapters.



How these character of the new gen suppose to fight with the drama any other than issues with parents?

I'm glad someone mentioned about the minor villages having huge deals with big 5, to what Pain had told Naruto but never given the part to deal with it but dealing with Tobi, Madara and Sasuke which ended the manga and forgotten all what Naruto had promised Nagato and now with Konan dead what will become of the Hidden Rain Village's fate?


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## BiggsDarklighter (Mar 5, 2016)

Hizashi was a branch member by way of being second born to slightly elder brother Hiashi. yeah, it doesn't make sense not to have the curse seal for everyone in case the enemy got a hold of the byakugan. Ao was an example of someone who stole the byakugan eye.

See chapter 102 for more information about the curse seal.


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## SoulFire (Mar 5, 2016)

BiggsDarklighter said:


> Hizashi was a branch member by way of being second born to slightly elder brother Hiashi. yeah, it doesn't make sense not to have the curse seal for everyone in case the enemy got a hold of the byakugan. Ao was an example of someone who stole the byakugan eye.
> 
> See chapter 102 for more information about the curse seal.



I don't think Kishi really thought this through. If the second born to a main family is automatically branch then Hanabi should automatically have been branded. Nothing about the inconsistencies of this practice makes sense.


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## Young Lord Minato (Mar 5, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> I don't think Kishi really thought this through. If the second born to a main family is automatically branch then Hanabi should automatically have been branded. Nothing about the inconsistencies of this practice makes sense.


The way Japanese clans work, branch families are usually started by male members. Since Hanabi, had she not been made heiress, could have married outside the clan, there'd be no point in branding her.


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## SoulFire (Mar 5, 2016)

Young Lord Minato said:


> The way Japanese clans work, branch families are usually started by male members. Since Hanabi, had she not been made heiress, could have married outside the clan, there'd be no point in branding her.



The whole thing still makes little sense given the idea that this seal was to protect the Byakugan from being stolen (as well as create a servant class--I assume that Koh is branch).


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## -Ziltoid- (Mar 5, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> The whole thing still makes little sense given the idea that this seal was to protect the Byakugan from being stolen (as well as create a servant class--I assume that Koh is branch).



If it was solely to protect the byakugan, all Hyuga would've worn a seal, and the entire 'enslavement' thing would never have occurred. Perhaps it once was the original purpose of a predecessor of the caged bird seal, but that has clearly been corrupted. I bet the main family profits pretty nicely from having subjugated part of their clan. 

Which is exactly why I wonder: has anything changed in the clan? Hanabi or Hinata not having those seals doesn't change whether or not the entire clan has been freed from those practices. And if so, did they do it voluntarily, or did Naruto and Hinata force them to abandon that tradition? Etc. Etc.

It's the usual thing: Kishimoto raises a question but never answers it properly, and we're left discussing assumptions


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## Stan Lee (Mar 5, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> KIshi's editors made suggestions but it was up to him to actually create the characters and situations within said universe. Kishi may have needed direction, but I believe the creative process that brought us the characters and their world was primarily that of Kishi, himself. Even characters that were forced upon him and that he had little interest in (such as Team Taka) ended up being engaging and interesting.
> 
> Kishi has talent. Unfortunately for the manga, Naruto was his very first foray as a mangaka and it shows. The story's popularity took off and an inexperienced Kishi had an unexpected tiger by the tail that he could hardly tame on his own. Chances are his future works may be better planned out and put together.
> 
> The current state of the anime is atrocious, imo.  I'm reserving my judgement of the spin-off, hoping that the assigned artist gets his shit together and that the author remains true to the characters he has been handed.



I believe his first editor had a huge influence. As once he left that is when the series truly got out of control. 

I think I remember hearing that in an interview with Kishi and Oda. Oda said that he thinks Kishi takes too much advise from his editors and doesn't do enough of his own thing. 

Kaguya herself feels like an editor invention to extend the series.


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## Itachi san88 (Mar 5, 2016)

No. Just no.


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## AmitDS (May 23, 2019)

Well nothing indicates that she surpassed Neji. As an adult she was still a chunnin while Neji was promoted to jonin as a teen and called the greatest genius the Hyuga has ever seen in part 1. It was also stated in databook 4 that Neji, Hiashi and Hizashi had the same strength/power (same tier) while Hinata and even Hanabi have never gotten that kind of recognition. She doesn't have rotation, or power compared to her dad while Neji had those as a teen.


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## Son Of Man (May 23, 2019)

No


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## Ultrafragor (May 23, 2019)

Why is this 14 pages

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (May 23, 2019)

she surpassed him in part 1 through authorial intent and mental synapses augmented through A4


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## fuff (May 24, 2019)

Hahaha...no.


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## Yagami1211 (May 24, 2019)

She definitely is a better cook than him. So yeah.


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## sabre320 (May 24, 2019)

She had better damn done it by now....neji died as a teen, she is from the main branch with the strongest bloodline and had years along with boruto powerscaling.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 25, 2019)

I mean she already had more damage output than Neji by the time of the War Arc. Because while his strongest move was 64 Palms, she could combine 64 Palms with Twin Lion Fist, a technique he didn’t have. Her Byakugan is also much more powerful than his.

Plus, she is named as a master of the Gentle Fist style in the anime and defeats Hanabi, a Jōnin and heiress to the Hyūga clan who should be comparable to Neji, during a sparring match in one of the novels. Granted this was only a battle of Gentle Fist and other techniques weren’t used, but still.

All that being said, I think her official rank is still Chūnin and she can’t use Kaiten like Neji or Hanabi can.

I would say she’s around the same level as Neji but his intelligence and versatility outshines hers, while she has a greater Byakugan and damage output.


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## Arles Celes (May 25, 2019)

Could she do that? Perhaps, since Neji died so young and Hinata might have been a late bloomer.

Did she show any feat beyond Neji level? Nope.

She is probably the strongest Hyuuga right now though...


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## fuff (May 25, 2019)

Arles Celes said:


> She is probably the strongest Hyuuga right now though...


wouldn't her dad and sister be the strongest...hannabi would be rising...but i mean her dad....come on now.


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## fuff (May 25, 2019)

Only thing Hinata passed Neji is in age

Reactions: Like 2


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## WarringStatesUchiha (May 25, 2019)

She is a housewife. She isn't surpassing no one.


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## Dreamchaser101 (May 26, 2019)

I don't think current Hinata is above even Part 1 Neji.


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## AmitDS (May 26, 2019)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> I mean she already had more damage output than Neji by the time of the War Arc. Because while his strongest move was 64 Palms, she could combine 64 Palms with Twin Lion Fist, a technique he didn’t have. Her Byakugan is also much more powerful than his.
> 
> Plus, she is named as a master of the Gentle Fist style in the anime and defeats Hanabi, a Jōnin and heiress to the Hyūga clan who should be comparable to Neji, during a sparring match in one of the novels. Granted this was only a battle of Gentle Fist and other techniques weren’t used, but still.
> 
> ...



I thought that in the novel, they sparred and because Hanabi was talking about Naruto she was getting mad and Hanabi conceded as a result.


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## Raniero (May 26, 2019)

It's easily possible. She had already surpassed him in a few ways by the war arc, such as having much better stamina and outlasting him by hours while he needed to rest and recover his strength and showcasing a much stronger Byakugan with far greater range (and accuracy, with how she was able to aim Ino's mind transfer on the Juubi from miles away). She also has a stronger version of 64 Palms, since she could use with the Lion Fist. Add into the fact Neji's been dead for years. She retired at 19 as a Chunin to raise kids, so she never was promoted to Jounin or still goes on missions, but assuming she still trains (and there is some indication she does, since she apparently trained Boruto in Gentle Fist), there's no reason for her not to have reached or surpassed his level.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 26, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> I thought that in the novel, they sparred and because Hanabi was talking about Naruto she was getting mad and Hanabi conceded as a result.



To be fair I haven’t read the novel, but it seemed like Hanabi only conceded after Hinata bested her in their sparring match.


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## Arles Celes (May 26, 2019)

fuff said:


> wouldn't her dad and sister be the strongest...hannabi would be rising...but i mean her dad....come on now.



Hiashi is no longer as strong as before. It seems his age is catching up to him. Also if we go with the DB at least then Neji surpassed Hiashi due to being described as the strongest Hyuuga.

Hinabi lost to Hinata in a duel.

Hinata being the strongest of the current Hyuugas would not be so strange.


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## dergeist (May 26, 2019)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> To be fair I haven’t read the novel, but it seemed like Hanabi only conceded after Hinata bested her in their sparring match.



It was a BS shit tier writing reason win, somehow Hanabi's hairband broke and got in the way obscuring her vision, so she would lose. Since when has hair stopped somebody with the Byakugan seeing through. However, it impeded Hanabi's vision and ability. They couldn't have Hanabi beating Hinata since it would mean she would have to leave  Naruto. Instead they use shit tier writing to give her a forced win. It's a good thing these novels are nothing, but second rate filler.



fuff said:


> Only thing Hinata passed Neji is in age



That solo 


WarringStatesUchiha said:


> She is a housewife. She isn't surpassing no one.



Another solo

OT: Truth be told she was only pairing fodder, forced to become a ninja. It's not her fault she was just written that way. Man they killed of Neji for this shitty pairing and useless character.


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## Ignition (May 26, 2019)

Meat said:


> In terms of battle experience:
> 
> Hinata fought:
> 
> ...



Wouldn't count one-sided stomps as battle experience tbh.

Edit: I just realized just how old this thread is... zzz people why do you necro.


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## Abcdjdj1234 (May 26, 2019)

Well she managed to come out alive after facing pain and momoshiki and their rinnegan rods  , neji died to a wooden  stick


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## Ignition (May 26, 2019)

Abcdjdj1234 said:


> Well she managed to come out alive after facing pain and momoshiki and their rinnegan rods  , neji died to a wooden  stick



When did she face Momoshiki?


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## Abcdjdj1234 (May 26, 2019)

Ignition said:


> When did she face Momoshiki?


She got injured while trying to prevent naruto from being kidnapped by momo .It was offscreened just mentioned when she woke up in the hospital


was probably her vs pain all over again , but sasuke and sakura might have saved her


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## Naruto (May 26, 2019)

Hanabi might, Hinata probably stopped trying to improve as a ninja.


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## Punished Kiba (May 26, 2019)

From what I've seen so far, No.
She was weaker than him in the war arc and I haven't seen any new feats yet that suggests that she's gotten much stronger than her war version. Though, it's not improbable to suggest that Hinata has surpassed him as an Adult....I just haven't seen any evidence of it (plus, the fact that she has retired).


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## WarringStatesUchiha (May 26, 2019)

Naruto said:


> Hanabi might, Hinata probably stopped trying to improve as a ninja.


This. Hinata even gave up her affiliation as Heiress of the Clan or anything to do with it. She lives even far away from there.

Disgraceful lol.


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## Raniero (May 26, 2019)

Hinata really owes nothing to a clan that mistreated her for years 

She never even held a grudge, despite Neji trying to kill her and her father saying she was better off dead.


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## WarringStatesUchiha (May 26, 2019)

Raniero said:


> Hinata really owes nothing to a clan that mistreated her for years
> 
> She never even held a grudge, despite Neji trying to kill her and her father saying she was better off dead.


True. But it's rather strange that mostly the girls slowed down her careers. Or even the boys. I guess they were slowed down by the peace era in the sense their abilities are archaic and they didn't fit well.

None of them have an university degree lol


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## Raniero (May 26, 2019)

WarringStatesUchiha said:


> None of them have an university degree lol


Universities exist in Naruto? First time I’ve heard of this


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## WarringStatesUchiha (May 26, 2019)

Raniero said:


> Universities exist in Naruto? First time I’ve heard of this


Something similar to it must exist somewhere lol.

I'm sure the people that developed tech weren't fighting like Hashi or Madara. 

Sakura and Naruto got somehow lucky because now they have prestigious positions valorized in the capitalist world lol. Poor Sasuke.


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## dergeist (May 26, 2019)

WarringStatesUchiha said:


> True. But it's rather strange that mostly the girls slowed down her careers. Or even the boys. I guess they were slowed down by the peace era in the sense their abilities are archaic and they didn't fit well.
> 
> None of them have an university degree lol



She lost the title of heiress when she was sent off to become a ninja, iirc. She never earnt it back and neither was it offered to her. She was forced to be a ninja and was to become pairing fodder. She was made with that purpose in mind, which is why she didn't carry on a career. Temari still takes missions, Ino does too with her team, while running a flower shop/business and I think the sensory division. Sakura runs the hospital, is the cheif medic(I think) and is a member of the pricy council, she possibly takes missions. Tenten is an exam judge and and is an arms supplier. She will become rich overnight if a war breaks out.They all have purpose and roles, they perform multpiple functions.

You shouldn't be dissing them as their careers had an upper limit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raniero (May 26, 2019)

Unlike the others, Hinata is the only one who still has a kid to watch. It’s only natural she isn’t on active duty, since Naruto is Hokage and always busy. Though being a ninja is becoming more useless in Boruto’s world anyway.


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## Kannon (May 26, 2019)

dergeist said:


> It was a BS shit tier writing reason win, somehow Hanabi's hairband broke and got in the way obscuring her vision, so she would lose. Since when has hair stopped somebody with the Byakugan seeing through. However, it impeded Hanabi's vision and ability. They couldn't have Hanabi beating Hinata since it would mean she would have to leave  Naruto. Instead they use shit tier writing to give her a forced win. It's a good thing these novels are nothing, but second rate filler.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You'd best be careful lol. Someone will definitely be butthurt over this. Especially since that someone has had a history of it before lol.


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## WarringStatesUchiha (May 26, 2019)

dergeist said:


> She lost the title of heiress when she was sent off to become a ninja, iirc. She never earnt it back and neither was it offered to her. She was forced to be a ninja and was to become pairing fodder. She was made with that purpose in mind, which is why she didn't carry on a career. Temari still takes missions, Ino does too with her team, while running a flower shop/business and I think the sensory division. Sakura runs the hospital, is the cheif medic(I think) and is a member of the pricy council, she possibly takes missions. Tenten is an exam judge and and is an arms supplier. She will become rich overnight if a war breaks out.They all have purpose and roles, they perform multpiple functions.
> 
> You shouldn't be dissing them as their careers had an upper limit.


I should because it's really nothing compared to the likes of Shikamaru that holds influence both in the political aspect, economical, strategy and international relationships. 
They could pass for fodder careers. Worse Temari has also been ditched of the Sand Higher ups real politics and traded her loyalty to some place where she just do some minor missions. But she goes to expensive restaurants lol.

Wow flower shop. Madara would tremble in fear.

And even fodders are running hospitals - even in reality. Let's not even talk about Kiba that is some poor propaganda boy doing things about dog food or whatever. 

Their purpose suck. Don't lie to yourself.  

I think that the better off people in the anime are the ones that got involved with things that matter in a capitalist and not feudal world.


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## Punished Kiba (May 26, 2019)

WarringStatesUchiha said:


> I should because it's really nothing compared to the likes of Shikamaru that holds influence both in the political aspect, economical, strategy and international relationships.
> They could pass for fodder careers. Worse Temari has also been ditched of the Sand Higher ups real politics and traded her loyalty to some place where she just do some minor missions. But she goes to expensive restaurants lol.
> 
> Wow flower shop. Madara would tremble in fear.
> ...



Kiba is apparently a konoha investigator. But, he's popular with Dog users so he does advertisements as well.


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## Zensuki (May 28, 2019)

Hinata couldn't even surpass a 16 year old Neji 



Arles Celes said:


> Hinabi lost to Hinata in a duel.



Filler novels have no validity. Hanabi surpassed Hinata a long time ago when they were kids, despite being a lot younger.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Raniero (May 28, 2019)

Hinata outperformed Neji during the war 

Rating my post as funny doesn’t change that, but you’ve had a hateboner for Hinata for years, so it doesn’t surprise me.


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## Milliardo (May 28, 2019)

Raniero said:


> Hinata outperformed Neji during the war
> 
> Rating my post as funny doesn’t change that, but you’ve had a hateboner for Hinata for years, so it doesn’t surprise me.


Neji gave his life for Hinata you shouldn't disrespect his memory.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Raniero (May 28, 2019)

Milliardo said:


> Neji gave his life for Hinata you shouldn't disrespect his memory.


>stating a fact is disrespectful
He nearly murdered her when they were children and she still forgave him and treated him like a sibling. It's the least he owed her


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## fuff (May 29, 2019)

Milliardo said:


> Neji gave his life for Hinata you shouldn't disrespect his memory.


 
Don’t @ me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raniero (May 29, 2019)

Yeah, because using fanart to degrade Neji’s sacrifice definitely doesn’t disrespect his memory or his character’s actual motives.

You can tell which people are actually real Neji fans and which ones just use Neji as a tool to bash (even funnier when it’s coming from the “foddergan” crowd)


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## Zef (May 29, 2019)

Has Hamura chakra been brought up yet?


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## Toph (May 29, 2019)

Zef said:


> Has Hamura chakra been brought up yet?



it has once in boruto






to amplify her housewife no jutsu that is


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## Zensuki (May 29, 2019)

You guys are savage


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## LesExit (May 29, 2019)

Hinata is one of if not my most favorite characters. What upsets me is that no one seems interested in writing her character in a consistent way strength wise. The byakugan princess alien shit was just insulting imo. I don't like random powerups and genetic history coming out of nowhere. I think all the alien stuff was a total insult to the hyuga clan and I continue to hate everything related to the aliens. And the Hanabi vs Hinata fight was done in a context where I don't see how it can be taken seriously. 

I wish they had just given her fights on her own against an enemy showing how far she had come. She doesn't need to be stronger than Neji or Hanabi to still be a strong ninja. She also doesn't need to be a ninja to be a dope person.

Reactions: Like 1


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## I Blue I (May 29, 2019)

Doubt it. Hinata arguably had the worst showing in the War Arc out of any of the K12. She was cornered and nearly slaughtered by Zetsu clones. She defeated one human-sized Jubi spawn while the rest of her peers were massacring them in hordes (besides Shino, but the one he killed was much larger than hers). She barely managed to execute a technique that Neji mastered without instruction in part 1. The best she could do to protect Naruto from the wooden spikes was knock away _one_ of them with an Air Palm before having to resort to shielding him with her body.

Hinata was meant to be an untalented character that strived to always move forward, even if she could only do so in small increments. I wouldn’t expect her to have gotten significantly more powerful after the war. She prioritized being a homemaker instead, which is completely fine.


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## Milliardo (May 30, 2019)

Raniero said:


> >stating a fact is disrespectful
> He nearly murdered her when they were children and she still forgave him and treated him like a sibling. It's the least he owed her


That was in a match(where death was a possibility for all) and told her to quit but she didn't listen.


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## Son Of Man (May 30, 2019)

Neji was just so skilled


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## LesExit (May 30, 2019)

Milliardo said:


> That was in a match(where death was a possibility for all) and told her to quit but she didn't listen.


Neji still didn't have to do her like that


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## Milliardo (May 30, 2019)

LesExit said:


> Neji still didn't have to do her like that


Ninja life be mean.


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## Corvida (May 31, 2019)

Milliardo said:


> Ninja life be mean.




Neji was a giant prick, as death was not a requisite to that part of the exams and hat to be stopped from killing Hinata by what, 3 senseis?




only because she had the bravery to tell him what it was

so much or Neji mind breaking tactics, he went bitch mode in seconds




I´m sure Kishi didn't shed a tear when Neji went full circle dying impaled as  an Spanish olive


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## Milliardo (May 31, 2019)

Corvida said:


> Neji was a giant prick, as death was not a requisite to that part of the exams and hat to be stopped from killing Hinata by what, 3 senseis?


 Yeah, Neji was a dick then no argument from me there.

Still that point remains there was a possibility of death as they were fighting one another with ninja powers. This wasn't a family cookout or something. Hell they could have died in the forest of death beforehand hence the name. Gaara was trying to kill Lee in their fight and Lee did a move on Gaara that would have killed any normal person.

Neji tried to get her to forfeit prior to the match and said he wouldn't be held responsible. Maybe the proctor should have took note of that? Neji had issues with the main branch and shouldn't have fought her in the first place. He tried to get her to forfeit again within the match but she kept going and lol Naruto was basically cheering her to her death. 

The jonin only stepped in when it was blatantly obvious he was going to kill her in that moment. Even before that she was severely messed up. Maybe just maybe the proctor should have called the match a lot sooner?? If Hinata doesn't forfeit and the proctor doesn't call the match then that means the match must continue. Neji certainly went overboard but there was plenty of blame to go around. 





> only because she had the bravery to tell him what it was
> 
> so much or Neji mind breaking tactics, he went bitch mode in seconds


Well considering he lost his father and was branded like animal... Its hard to blame him for getting so upset on the subject. Again maybe someone should have told him the truth.. Neji just directed his anger at the wrong person because he believed she got special treatment being in the main branch while he was branded like a cow. If only he knew how poor Hinata was treated by her own father.





> I´m sure Kishi didn't shed a tear when Neji went full circle dying impaled as  an Spanish olive


 I'm sure he thought it was great writing unfortunately.


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## Toph (May 31, 2019)

LesExit said:


> Neji still didn't have to do her like that



gave her a chance to yield, sometimes you gotta know when to fold em


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