# Post-Ts Sanji Vs Kuma (with brain)



## Siema (Mar 22, 2013)

Location: Thriller Bark
Restriction: None
Distance: 40M


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## Imagine (Mar 22, 2013)

Sanji high-extreme.


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## Rob (Mar 22, 2013)

I still feel like Kuma should be above the M3. 

Not by a huge margin though.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Mar 22, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I still feel like Kuma should be above the M3.
> 
> Not by a huge margin though.



But you think kuma > vista, so m3 members = vista?


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## Rob (Mar 22, 2013)

Kuma>Vista>M3

...


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## RF (Mar 22, 2013)

Dunno. Something tells me that Kuma should still be >any M3 member,but his feats are too insignificant when compared to theirs. 




RobLucciRapes said:


> Kuma>Vista>M3
> 
> ...



So although Kuma is not stronger than the M3 by a huge margin,there's still a place for Vista to fit in between the two. Interesting.


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## Shiny (Mar 22, 2013)

Kuma low-mid diff  maybe he can even stomp sanji


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## Null (Mar 22, 2013)

I always thought Kuma was>strawhats


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## RF (Mar 22, 2013)

ShinyMarch said:


> Kuma low-mid diff  maybe he can even stomp sanji



lolwut


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## Bitty (Mar 22, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Kuma>Vista>M3
> 
> ...



so Vista is M3 level? lol

i'd say Kuma wins extreme diff until we see Sanji go all out or obtain some more CoA feats.
Hell Memories in coordination with CoO will fuck Kuma up pretty bad before Sanji goes down.


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## mido (Mar 22, 2013)

why even consider vista all the time 
he has no feats and probably will never have

on topic 
kuma should be still above m3 level


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## Luis209 (Mar 22, 2013)

They all trained hard to not get separeted again, so at least the M3 could beat Kuma, with high  high difficulty. Sanji wins this.


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## Language of Life (Mar 22, 2013)

Luis209 said:


> They all trained hard to not get separeted again, so at least the M3 could beat Kuma, with high  high difficulty. Sanji wins this.



Yeah, all the strawhats trained really hard so they would not be raped like they were on Shabondy. But that does not mean all the SH can beat Kuma. It only applies to some of them.

If there are any SH that i would give the benefit of the doubt in a fight against Kuma, it's Luffy and Zoro. Heck i would still be on the fence with Zoro vs Kuma. From what i have seen of Sanji i dont think he can beat Kuma yet.

Kuma wins high dif.


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## KST (Mar 22, 2013)

Sanji plays soccer with kuma's head


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## Luis209 (Mar 22, 2013)

> Yeah, all the strawhats trained really hard so they would not be raped like they were on Shabondy. But that does not mean all the SH can beat Kuma. It only applies to some of them.


Sure. I think that only the 3 monsters of SH could beat Kuma.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Mar 22, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Kuma>Vista>M3
> 
> ...



So if Kuma is a bit above the M3, then Vista is also a bit less above the m3 OR Vista=m3?
Lol... 
You need to double check how you analyze op power levels


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## cry77 (Mar 22, 2013)

vista>>>>>>>>>Luffy>kuma~sanji

Could go either way but learning towards sanji


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## Coruscation (Mar 22, 2013)

Benefit of the doubt is Kuma's for now but it's not a safe bet.


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## SsjAzn (Mar 23, 2013)

Kuma for now.


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## Sanji (Mar 23, 2013)

M3>Kuma by a tiny bit.


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## Kishido (Mar 24, 2013)

I rank Kuma higher as any M3 member so far... Sanji and Co still have to show more


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## RF (Mar 24, 2013)

KiShiDo said:


> I rank Kuma higher as any M3 member so far... Sanji and Co still have to show more



No. It's exactly the opposite. Kuma has to show more. Most of his offensive power comes from his pad cannons,and lasers that were dodged by an injured pre-timeskip Zoro without CoO. The current M3 can easily avoid those attack,especially considering they have CoO. 

His other two offensive moves are Ursus Shock.and pain sucking,and neither are applicable in battle since they take to much time and prep.

With his current feats,Kuma is not beating any M3 member,while there is no proof that Kuma is more durable than a regular Pacifista,whom every M3 member one shot with casual attacks.


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## TrainerRed (Mar 24, 2013)

Kuma (with brain), Kuma extreme diff

Kuma (without brain), Sanji high-extreme diff


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## Magician (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm giving it to Kuma here.


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## Mihawk (Mar 25, 2013)

Kuma wins high diff


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 25, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> No. It's exactly the opposite. Kuma has to show more. Most of his offensive power comes from his pad cannons,and lasers that were dodged by an injured pre-timeskip Zoro without CoO. The current M3 can easily avoid those attack,especially considering they have CoO.
> 
> His other two offensive moves are Ursus Shock.and pain sucking,and neither are applicable in battle since they take to much time and prep.
> 
> With his current feats,Kuma is not beating any M3 member,while there is no proof that Kuma is more durable than a regular Pacifista,whom every M3 member one shot with casual attacks.



He was fighting Iva in his PX-0 mode and there is nothing indicating the M.trio are significantly above Iva. You're totally ignoring power creep and scaling. If you judge Kuma purely on his showings in TB he'd be raped by OD Hody. Ace has the same problem. His feats are hardly impressive at this point in the story but he is implied to be M.Trio level minimum. Same problem also somewhat effects Teach's stats.


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## tupadre97 (Mar 25, 2013)

lolrapethread. 

Remember what Sanji did to that pacifista post timeskip in Shabondy? Apply that to Kuma.

/thread


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## Zyrax (Mar 25, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> lolrapethread.
> 
> Remember what Sanji did to that pacifista post timeskip in Shabondy? Apply that to Kuma.
> 
> /thread


  some people


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## tupadre97 (Mar 25, 2013)

CM Pinkie said:


> some people



Kuma has the durability of a pacifista and speed feats that barely place him above the pre skip M3. He's gonna get wrecked.


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## Zyrax (Mar 25, 2013)

I just slammed my face to the wall  
lol logic is lolI


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## Pink Matter (Mar 25, 2013)

Feat wise, Sanji takes this high difficulty. 
Hype wise, this goes to Kuma.


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## zorokuma (Mar 26, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Kuma has the durability of a pacifista and *speed feats that barely place him above the pre skip M3*. He's gonna get wrecked.



yea, cause pre skip m3 was practically (if not literally) teleporting as well.



anyway, Kuma sends sanji on a trip to the sun or something.


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## tupadre97 (Mar 26, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> yea, cause pre skip m3 was practically (if not literally) teleporting as well.
> 
> 
> 
> anyway, Kuma sends sanji on a trip to the sun or something.



Not being able to hit or dodge preskip Zoro=barely faster than M3. Seriously does the guy even have speed feats bcuz teleportation is not a substitute for speed.


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## cry77 (Mar 26, 2013)

kuma cant teleport literally..

BUT he can probel himself very fast..when it comes to movement speed he should be faster than any SH.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 26, 2013)

Kuma wins with mid to high difficuly. 

LOLVista being >>>>>>>M3.

At best he's marginally stronger. 

LOLVista in general.


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 26, 2013)

According to some people in this thread Iva and Kuma are vastly weaker than Hody Jones and by extension Jinbe.


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## cry77 (Mar 26, 2013)

who said kuma is weaker than hodi? the pacifista thing?


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## RF (Mar 26, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> No. It's exactly the opposite. Kuma has to show more. Most of his offensive power comes from his pad cannons,and lasers that were dodged by an injured pre-timeskip Zoro without CoO. The current M3 can easily avoid those attack,especially considering they have CoO.
> 
> His other two offensive moves are Ursus Shock.and pain sucking,and neither are applicable in battle since they take to much time and prep.
> 
> With his current feats,Kuma is not beating any M3 member,while there is no proof that Kuma is more durable than a regular Pacifista,whom every M3 member one shot with casual attacks.



I completely agree. Great post. 

Repped.


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 26, 2013)

cry77 said:


> who said kuma is weaker than hodi? the pacifista thing?



Yeah, look at the guy right above this post. Anybody saying pre-ts Zoro can dodge his palms, time his lasers, and that post-skip Sanji can-shot him are by default saying Jinbe>>>Hody>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kuma.

Logic would tell you that Sanji is not  2, 5, 10x stronger than Iva, likely his final test to get off the island, who failed to take out Kuma with a drop kick and Galaxy Wink. But no these people need feats, no common sense usage at all.


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## tupadre97 (Mar 26, 2013)

cry77 said:


> kuma cant teleport literally..
> 
> BUT he can probel himself very fast..*when it comes to movement speed he should be faster than any SH*.


Wth makes u think that? They guy could not hit or dodge pre skip Zoro, his speed is not impressive at all.


cry77 said:


> who said kuma is weaker than hodi? the pacifista thing?



Nobody. Kuma is too hax for him anyway. He'd lose to any mid high tier however. I don't even see how u could debate that.


Ryuksgelus said:


> Yeah, look at the guy right above this post. Anybody saying pre-ts Zoro can dodge his palms, time his lasers, and that post-skip Sanji can-shot him are by default saying *Jinbe>>>Hody>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kuma.*
> 
> Logic would tell you that if Sanji is not  2, 5, 10x stronger than Iva, likely his final test to get off the island, who failed to take out Kuma with a drop kick and Galaxy Wink. But no these people need feats, no common sense usage at all.



No I literally just said Kuma could beat him up above wtf are u talking about? Sanji is obviously stronger than Ivankov. He had to beat him to get off his island and he one shot a pacifista while Ivankov couldn't even beat Kuma (who has the same durability as a pacifista) with his Galaxy wink. Its obvious who is the stronger fighter in this match, but u can wank Kuma all day if u want. Just don't be mad when ur ridiculous sense of powerscaling is completely disproven and shattered by the manga. Don't get mad at Oda for ur stupidity.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Mar 26, 2013)

Franky would beat kuma high diff


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## cry77 (Mar 26, 2013)

you do not know what movement speed is do you? ..

it is the speed of which one person moves from A to B as in NOT simple attacks...No SH beside luffy has shown "soru" like movement speed where they blur away and become invisible to the naked eye.


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## Extravlad (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm pretty sure if you had made a Zoro vs Kuma thread, everyone would said Zoro wins.


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## Zyrax (Mar 26, 2013)

For once I agree with ExtraLvad. Zolo wankers gonna wank


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## Rasendori (Mar 26, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> No. It's exactly the opposite. Kuma has to show more. *Most of his offensive power comes from his pad cannons,and lasers that were dodged by an injured pre-timeskip Zoro without CoO.* The current M3 can easily avoid those attack,especially considering they have CoO.
> 
> His other two offensive moves are Ursus Shock.and pain sucking,and neither are applicable in battle since they take to much time and prep.
> 
> With his current feats,Kuma is not beating any M3 member,while there is no proof that Kuma is more durable than a regular Pacifista,whom every M3 member one shot with casual attacks.



Because Kuma obviously wanted to kill him, correct?

I think we need to see more from Kuma obviously, but I'll give this to him If only because of hype.


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 26, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Wth makes u think that? They guy could not hit or dodge pre skip Zoro, his speed is not impressive at all.
> 
> 
> Nobody. Kuma is too hax for him anyway. He'd lose to any mid high tier however. I don't even see how u could debate that.
> ...



You have no proof of that. 

You don't know how hard it was for Sanji to take out Iva or if he even did. He could have taken down someone else and Iva let him go. Even if he did the difference would not be so big that Sanji can one-shot someone that Iva couldn't take down with serious effort. It's like you guys argue purely because you can knowing you're full of it. Not like you'll be around to defend yourselves when you're obviously proven wrong.

Oh wait I'm arguing with Tupadre, lol. The guy with consistent stupid interpretations. Pretty sure I was talking about the poster Sakazuki


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## cry77 (Mar 27, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Wth makes u think that? They guy could not hit or dodge pre skip Zoro, his speed is not impressive at all.
> 
> 
> Nobody. Kuma is too hax for him anyway. He'd lose to any mid high tier however. I don't even see how u could debate that.
> ...


it is COMPLETELY retarded to believe that kuma has the same durability as a PX...
Ivankov used one of his high end attacks on Kuma during the war while sanji one shotted one with a base kick..Powerscaling would show that Ivankov is on the level of the preskip SHs 
And ivankov never had to be beaten by sanji..it was never stated that Ivankov himself was one of the 99 masters that sanji had to beat.


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## Luis209 (Mar 27, 2013)

Sanji one shotted one Pacifista with a Diable Jambe kick, not base Kick. But yeah Kuma is more durable than a Pacifista, that is obvious.


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## tupadre97 (Mar 27, 2013)

Ryuksgelus said:


> You have no proof of that.
> 
> You don't know how hard it was for Sanji to take out Iva or if he even did. He could have taken down someone else and Iva let him go. Even if he did the difference would not be so big that Sanji can one-shot someone that Iva couldn't take down with serious effort. It's like you guys argue purely because you can knowing you're full of it. Not like you'll be around to defend yourselves when you're obviously proven wrong.
> 
> Oh wait I'm arguing with Tupadre, lol. The guy with consistent stupid interpretations. Pretty sure I was talking about the poster Sakazuki



Who cares how hard of a fight it was. Sanji has feats that place him in a higher tier than him anyone so who gives a fuck.

And wth do u mean I have no proof Kuma has pacifista durability. He's the *original pacifista* thats all the proof I need. Why would u make other pacifsita that aren't as good as the fucking prototype? Come on man just be logical for one second. Its not that hard of a concept to understand. 





cry77 said:


> *it is COMPLETELY retarded to believe that kuma has the same durability as a PX...*Ivankov used one of his high end attacks on Kuma during the war while sanji one shotted one with a base kick..Powerscaling would show that Ivankov is on the level of the preskip SHs
> And ivankov never had to be beaten by sanji..it was never stated that Ivankov himself was one of the 99 masters that sanji had to beat.



Why? He's the original fucking pacifista. Meaning he's made out of the *exact* same material as them. So how would he be more durable than them? Hell it would make more sense if the other pacifista are more durable than him. I mean he could have been upgraded by Vegapunk post time skip but we don't know that for sure yet.


cry77 said:


> you do not know what movement speed is do you? ..
> 
> it is the speed of which one person moves from A to B as in NOT simple attacks...No SH beside luffy has shown "soru" like movement speed where they blur away and become invisible to the naked eye.



Show me the feat where Kuma's "movement speed" is shown to be anywhere near the current M3. I'll wait


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## RF (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes,and below the Pacifista skin there's a high tier like every other...

Sanji ain't one shooting shit...


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## tupadre97 (Mar 27, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Yes,and below the Pacifista skin there's a high tier like every other...
> 
> Sanji ain't one shooting shit...



So Sanji can't one shot him bcuz u say so. Excellent argument !


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## RF (Mar 27, 2013)

As I said,under the pacifista skin,there's a high tier with high tier durability.

Sanji sure as hell ain't one shooting a high tier of Kuma's caliber.


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## zorokuma (Mar 27, 2013)

sanji used dj to try and one shot kuma and gets deflected. since kuma can deflect anything. then while sanji is flying to the ground, kuma uses his teleporting like move to reach behind sanji and bfr him.


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## cry77 (Mar 27, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Who cares how hard of a fight it was. Sanji has feats that place him in a higher tier than him anyone so who gives a fuck.
> 
> And wth do u mean I have no proof Kuma has pacifista durability. He's the *original pacifista* thats all the proof I need. Why would u make other pacifsita that aren't as good as the fucking prototype? Come on man just be logical for one second. Its not that hard of a concept to understand.
> 
> ...


yes the armor is still the same but kuma himself isnt..Kuma is still a live human being behind the steel where as the regular PX just are dead bodies. Kumas natural durability behind the armor would factor into his total durability as well.



show me a feat where any SH not named luffy can blur from sight due to sheer movement speed.


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## tupadre97 (Mar 27, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> As I said,under the pacifista skin,there's a high tier with high tier durability.
> 
> Sanji sure as hell ain't one shooting a high tier of Kuma's caliber.



Well since u have no proof/feats to back up ur argument ur pretty much saying he can win just bcuz u say so. There is no pacifista skin the entire thing is made out of wapometal or whatever material its made out of. So if Sanji hits him (and yes he will hit him Kuma couldn't even dodge preskip Zoro after noticing him) he will one shot him and unlike u I have feats to back up my claim.


zorokuma said:


> sanji used dj to try and one shot kuma and gets deflected. since kuma can deflect anything. then while sanji is flying to the ground, kuma uses his teleporting like move to reach behind sanji and bfr him.


Yep the same way he reflected shishi sonson and Ivankov in Marineford, oh wait 


cry77 said:


> yes the armor is still the same but kuma himself isnt..Kuma is still a live human being behind the steel where as the regular PX just are dead bodies. Kumas natural durability behind the armor would factor into his total durability as well.
> 
> 
> 
> show me a feat where any SH not named luffy can blur from sight due to sheer movement speed.



We have no idea what Kuma's original durability was and there is no reason to think he had "high tier" durability. He has zero high tier feats or hype to even suggest that he has any high tier stats. Hell he probably had mid tier stats b4 he was a pacifista. Seriously if he was so stronger why would they make him weaker by making him a cyborg? Becoming a cyborg has never make anyone weaker in any work of fiction, it almost always is done to make them stronger than what there were b4. There is no reason to think Kuma was high tier or had high tier stats at all.

And who gives a damn about certain characters moving with a blur while others don't. If Zoro and Sanji can keep up with him while he's moving then who gives a fuck. Its like saying in Enies Lobby Kaku and Jabra were faster than Zoro and Sanji even tho Zoro and Sanji had no problem keeping up with them and attacking them. Oda deciding to use the flashstep trope has nothing to do with anybody's speed. If that was the case then Lucci would be faster Akainu bcuz he uses soru, its completely retarded to think that.


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## RF (Mar 27, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Well since u have no proof/feats to back up ur argument ur pretty much saying he can win just bcuz u say so. There is no pacifista skin the entire thing is made out of wapometal or whatever material its made out of. So if Sanji hits him (and yes he will hit him Kuma couldn't even dodge preskip Zoro after noticing him) he will one shot him and unlike u I have feats to back up my claim.



As I said,below the wapometal is a high tier,with high tier durability...

are you implying that Sanji can one shoot high tiers of Kuma's caliber ?


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## RF (Mar 27, 2013)

Rasendori said:


> Because Kuma obviously wanted to kill him, correct?
> 
> I think we need to see more from Kuma obviously, but I'll give this to him If only because of hype.



He said that the current M3 have to show more,and I merely compared their feats...


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## zorokuma (Mar 27, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Well since u have no proof/feats to back up ur argument ur pretty much saying he can win just bcuz u say so. There is no pacifista skin the entire thing is made out of wapometal or whatever material its made out of. So if Sanji hits him (and yes he will hit him Kuma couldn't even dodge preskip Zoro after noticing him) he will one shot him and unlike u I have feats to back up my claim.
> 
> *Yep the same way he reflected shishi sonson and Ivankov in Marineford, oh wait *
> 
> ...



well kuma didnt fight ivankov and zoro got in a sneak attack...all his others were either dodged or repelled  so........................


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## cry77 (Mar 27, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> We have no idea what Kuma's original durability was and there is no reason to think he had "high tier" durability. He has zero high tier feats or hype to even suggest that he has any high tier stats. Hell he probably had mid tier stats b4 he was a pacifista. Seriously if he was so stronger why would they make him weaker by making him a cyborg? Becoming a cyborg has never make anyone weaker in any work of fiction, it almost always is done to make them stronger than what there were b4. There is no reason to think Kuma was high tier or had high tier stats at all.
> 
> And who gives a damn about certain characters moving with a blur while others don't. If Zoro and Sanji can keep up with him while he's moving then who gives a fuck. Its like saying in Enies Lobby Kaku and Jabra were faster than Zoro and Sanji even tho Zoro and Sanji had no problem keeping up with them and attacking them. Oda deciding to use the flashstep trope has nothing to do with anybody's speed. If that was the case then Lucci would be faster Akainu bcuz he uses soru, its completely retarded to think that.


kuma was shown in luffys flashback standing by dragons side..Kuma was a relatively high ranked revo from the looks of it so powerscaling could easily suggest his natural durability to be high tier.

and i dont care about who cares about his speed..I outright said MOVEMENT speed, which moving in a blur is a proof of fast movement, something zoro and sanji CANNOT..If you didnt give a damn about then why the fuck did you reply to it in the first place?

Also it is even more retarded to think that Akainu cannot use soru as well, so that point is bullshit


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## tupadre97 (Mar 28, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> As I said,below the wapometal is a high tier,with high tier durability...
> 
> are you implying that Sanji can one shoot high tiers of Kuma's caliber ?



Its low high tier and we have already seen him one shot someone with a wapometal body so wth are u talking about?

Kuma is not high tier (mid high tier) there are ZERO feats that prove that but there are feats/reasons that prove he is low high tier (he's barely faster than preskip M3, he has the same durability as a pacifista, his ursus shock didn't KO Zoro, he couldn't hit Zoro with the pad cannons, he couldn't dodge Zoro or Ivankov, etc.).


zorokuma said:


> well kuma didnt fight ivankov and zoro got in a sneak attack...all his others were either dodged or repelled  so........................



Go back and read the manga (chapter 485 iirc) Kuma noticed him (an exclamation popped over his head) and still got cut. Ur gonna have to try harder if u still wanna come up for excuse as to why he won't get one shot.


cry77 said:


> *kuma was shown in luffys flashback standing by dragons side..Kuma was a relatively high ranked revo from the looks of it so powerscaling could easily suggest his natural durability to be high tier*.
> 
> and i dont care about who cares about his speed..I outright said MOVEMENT speed, which *moving in a blur is a proof of fast movement*, something zoro and sanji CANNOT..If you didnt give a damn about then why the fuck did you reply to it in the first place?
> 
> Also it is even more retarded to think that Akainu cannot use soru as well, so that point is bullshit



Ivankov was also seen standing by Dragon's side I guess that makes him a high tier as well, oh wait but he couldn't one shot Kuma with his pacifista durability and he got defeated by Sanji. Yeah thats a real mid high tier there lol. Dude nobody gives a damn if he was standing next to Dragon or how high he was ranked. What so bcuz Robin stood next to Dragon when she met him that all of a sudden makes her high tier? That logic is just retarded theres no other thing to call it.

Oh and apparently Tashigi is faster than current Zoro and Sanji bcuz she can use soru and they can't :rofl. LOL bro gtfo. I'm done this is just too stupid for me.


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## cry77 (Mar 28, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Ivankov was also seen standing by Dragon's side I guess that makes him a high tier as well, oh wait but he couldn't one shot Kuma with his pacifista durability and he got defeated by Sanji. Yeah thats a real mid high tier there lol. Dude nobody gives a damn if he was standing next to Dragon or how high he was ranked. What so bcuz Robin stood next to Dragon when she met him that all of a sudden makes her high tier? That logic is just retarded theres no other thing to call it.
> 
> Oh and apparently Tashigi is faster than current Zoro and Sanji bcuz she can use soru and they can't :rofl. LOL bro gtfo. I'm done this is just too stupid for me.


wait what? You DONT believe Iva is high tier?  what's he supposed to be then? mid-tier?   pre-skip luffy level? 
AND Sanji was never stated to have beaten Iva, where did you get that from? Iva was never once stated to be one of the 99 masters sanji had to beat, not once. and even IF sanji beat Ivankov how does that eliminate Iva as a high tier? You're trying to say that if Sanji, a high tier, beats another high tier then that high tier is no longer high tier?  
So when Akainu beat Aokiji, Aokiji was no longer a top tier? 


and yes, if tashigi can blur away and zoro cannot she is in fact faster when it comes to MOVEMENT speed. Do you belive zoro can run 100 meters faster than a soru user? Even though tashigi is leagues weaker than zoro she can still be faster in movement speed. Just like enel is faster than current zoro but is still way weaker overall in a fight.
Movement speed does not have to have a correlation to your overall fighting prowess.

Holy shit Tupadre, I remember you now


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## tupadre97 (Mar 28, 2013)

^^Sanji one shot a pacifista, Ivankov didn't. Thats why he's a higher tier than him. The rest of your post is just idiotic I'm not responding to it. Saying Tashigi is faster than Zoro at anything is just plain retarded.


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## cry77 (Mar 28, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> ^^Sanji one shot a pacifista, Ivankov didn't. Thats why he's a higher tier than him. The rest of your post is just idiotic I'm not responding to it. Saying Tashigi is faster than Zoro at anything is just plain retarded.


Well it's not my fault you're an idiot


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

Cry, Cry stahp it. 

There's no point in trying to have a logical debate with tupadre, lest you want your brain to turn into mush.


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## Mihawk (Mar 29, 2013)

What in god's name is wrong with you people?


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## cry77 (Mar 29, 2013)

What seems to be your boggle?


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## Mihawk (Mar 29, 2013)

^Just the fact that people are thinking that Kuma's durability is the same as a generic Pacifista's.


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## cry77 (Mar 29, 2013)

TBH I actually thought that as well once, but after seeing Iva being unable to even dent PX0 I used something called logic to prove me wrong..Something that Tupadre never learned.

Tupadre is trigimons dupe


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## Mihawk (Mar 29, 2013)

Yea, and it's pretty frustrating to see people come to the conclusion that Iva "raped" or "beat" Kuma, just because he pushed him back and sent him flying, despite the fact that not a single dent was left on Kuma.

It's no different from Luffy using a Storm to hit Aokiji and send him flying, despite not having actually inflicted damage. 

I am not of course, suggesting that the gap between Ivankov & PX-0 to be as wide as Aokiji & Pre TS Luffy


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 29, 2013)

I don't know why anyone would think that though.

The guy has his original durability+ Pacifista armour+ (possibly) Haki via powerscaling.


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## Shingy (Mar 29, 2013)

Tashigi isn't faster than Zoro. 

The match is a toss-up, honestly.

They're both mid/high-high tiers, but I'd give the benefit of the doubt to Kuma for now.


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## cry77 (Mar 29, 2013)

Shingy said:


> Tashigi isn't faster than Zoro.
> 
> The match is a toss-up, honestly.
> 
> They're both mid/high-high tiers, but I'd give the benefit of the doubt to Kuma for now.


tashigi is slower than zoro in a fight..but on a 100 meter track, any soru user would be faster than zoro since zoro does not have superhuman MOVEMENT speed.

Again..MOVEMENT SPEED.
One last time..MOVEMENT SPEED.
As in..THE SPEED YOU MOVE FROM A TO B WITH.
As in..NOT THE SPEED REQUIRED TO BE A STRONG FIGHTER, WE CALL THAT "COMBAT SPEED".

If you still believe zoro is faster then supply a scan of zoro blurring thanks.


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## Shingy (Mar 29, 2013)

cry77 said:


> tashigi is slower than zoro in a fight..but on a 100 meter track, any soru user would be faster than zoro since zoro does not have superhuman MOVEMENT speed.
> 
> Again..MOVEMENT SPEED.
> One last time..MOVEMENT SPEED.
> ...





 How the fuck do you think he uses Shi Shi Son Son?

Tashigi is not fucking faster than Zoro. Shut the fuck up about it.


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## Indicud (Mar 29, 2013)

cry77 said:


> tashigi is slower than zoro in a fight..but *on a 100 meter track, any soru user would be faster than zoro since zoro does not have superhuman MOVEMENT speed.*
> 
> Again..MOVEMENT SPEED.
> One last time..MOVEMENT SPEED.
> ...



What bullshit. What non superhuman do you know can dodge bullets from point blank range? 

Especially considering that was a much weaker version of himself. Zoro can keep up with base Luffy's and (G2 Luffy's speed) whom was able to dodge a liquid explosion at point blank range. Do you know how fast you have to be to do that?


OT: Sanji takes it super high difficulty.


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## cry77 (Mar 29, 2013)

OMFG..BULLET DODGING COUNTS AS COMBAT SPEED AND REACTION SPEED IN WHICH ZORO OBIVOUSLY DESTROYS TASHIGI..holy fucking shit, I'm getting sick of repeating myself..Zoro has never shown superhuman movement speed, accept that shit.

RUNNING 100 METERS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COMBAT SPEED. WHY DONT YOU GET THAT? RUNNING 10O METERS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KEEPING UP WITH ANYONE IN A FIGHT. WHY DONT YOU GET THAT?
MOVEMENT SPEED IS NOT THE SAME AS COMBAT SPEED. WHY DONT YOU GET THAT?
ZORO HAS NEVER SHOWN SUPERHUMAN MOVEMENT SPPED. WHY DONT YOU GET THAT?


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## Shingy (Mar 29, 2013)

cry77 said:


> OMFG..BULLET DODGING COUNTS AS COMBAT SPEED AND REACTION SPEED IN WHICH ZORO OBIVOUSLY DESTROYS TASHIGI..holy fucking shit, I'm getting sick of repeating myself..Zoro has never shown superhuman movement speed, accept that shit.
> 
> RUNNING 100 METERS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COMBAT SPEED. WHY DONT YOU GET THAT? RUNNING 10O METERS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KEEPING UP WITH ANYONE IN A FIGHT. WHY DONT YOU GET THAT?
> MOVEMENT SPEED IS NOT THE SAME AS COMBAT SPEED. WHY DONT YOU GET THAT?
> ZORO HAS NEVER SHOWN SUPERHUMAN MOVEMENT SPPED. WHY DONT YOU GET THAT?




*Spoiler*: __ 









So I guess every human  can outrun avalanches now.


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## cry77 (Mar 29, 2013)

That is a good speed feat no doubt but not "disappearing from sight fast" besides, even namis body could run that fast.


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## Shingy (Mar 29, 2013)

cry77 said:


> That is a good speed feat no doubt but not "disappearing from sight fast" besides, even namis body could run that fast.



Gimme a sec, I'll find something.


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## Teach (Mar 29, 2013)

That's stupid as fuck. Tashigi isn't faster than Zoro. At anything.


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## Shingy (Mar 29, 2013)

If you deny this. 

*Spoiler*: __


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## tupadre97 (Mar 30, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> *Yea, and it's pretty frustrating to see people come to the conclusion that Iva "raped" or "beat" Kuma, just because he pushed him back and sent him flying, despite the fact that not a single dent was left on Kuma.*
> 
> It's no different from Luffy using a Storm to hit Aokiji and send him flying, despite not having actually inflicted damage.
> 
> I am not of course, suggesting that the gap between Ivankov & PX-0 to be as wide as Aokiji & Pre TS Luffy


Just to let u know I never said Ivankov was stronger than Kuma.


Doflαmingo said:


> ^Just the fact that people are thinking that Kuma's durability is the same as a generic Pacifista's.


Prove to me that Kuma has better durability than a pacifista when he is the _protoype_ and not the finished product.





Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I don't know why anyone would think that though.
> 
> The guy has his original durability+ Pacifista armour+ (possibly) Haki via powerscaling.


We have no idea what his original durablity was (most likely lower than his pacifsta durability) but that doesn't matter anyway his entire body is made out of wapometal. Also we have no idea if he could even use haki and he has no feats or hype that suggest he has haki or can use it on the M3 level.





cry77 said:


> tashigi is slower than zoro in a fight..but on a 100 meter track, any soru user would be faster than zoro since zoro does not have superhuman MOVEMENT speed.
> 
> Again..MOVEMENT SPEED.
> One last time..MOVEMENT SPEED.
> ...



Zoro's movement speed and reaction speed are greater than Tashigi's. Which means his combat speed is also faster than her so whats your point? Saying Tashigi is faster than Zoro bcuz she moves with a "blur" is like saying Lucci is faster than Ace.  Seriously how stupid can u get.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 30, 2013)

> That's stupid as fuck. Tashigi isn't faster than Zoro. At anything.




Ha, not true.


She's extremely fast at loosing, probably massively hypersonic+


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## cry77 (Mar 30, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> *Zoro's movement speed* and reaction speed are greater than Tashigi's. Which means his combat speed is also faster than her so whats your point? Saying Tashigi is faster than Zoro bcuz she moves with a "blur" is like saying Lucci is faster than Ace.  Seriously how stupid can u get.


prove the bolded


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## Shingy (Mar 30, 2013)

cry77 said:


> prove the bolded



Mang, just drop this . Zoro is much faster than Tashigi.

A blood lusted Monet went into her intangibility form with her highest speeds to kill Nami and Zoro intercepted the attack from yards away, giving her a head start.

Tashigi, even with Soru, would not be able to replicate that same interception.


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## cry77 (Mar 30, 2013)

monet is fodder


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## Shingy (Mar 30, 2013)

cry77 said:


> monet is fodder



Monet is stronger, faster, and more durable than Tashigi.


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## cry77 (Mar 30, 2013)

implying you lose fodder status by being stronger than tashigi?


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## Shingy (Mar 30, 2013)

cry77 said:


> implying you lose fodder status by being stronger than tashigi?



They're both fodder, and Zoro is faster than Monet by multitudes. Monet is, in every way, superior to Tashigi.


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## tupadre97 (Mar 31, 2013)

cry77 said:


> prove the bolded



Powerscaling. Blitzing Hyozou who "reacted" to Luffy's jet pistol. Keeping up with Monet who can keep up with Luffy etc.


cry77 said:


> monet is fodder



She can react to Luffy's speed and block his attacks. Yep that sounds like a fodder to me .


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## Genma1998 (Apr 4, 2013)

Kuma extreme difficulty


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## SesshomaruX2 (Apr 4, 2013)

Depends if Sanji can react to Kuma popping up to send him flying for three days. If so then Sanji should win, if not then he'll lose.


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## SsjAzn (Apr 4, 2013)

This thread's still going on? Kuma should be able to take this is a lot of difficulty, unless proven proven otherwise.


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