# DC Comics 2011 Reboot thread - Part 1



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 30, 2012)

Discuss.

edit:

first part of the thread


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## Taleran (Mar 30, 2012)

The thing about that though is that Diana is younger than the period of time in which they do their hunting.

Man Tucker is so spot on when he nails it.


			
				Flash #7 said:
			
		

> There’s no titty, no racism, and you’ll find a much higher violence quotient watching a preschooler play make-believe: but believe it or not, this is a contemporary DC superhero comic. It follows the exploits of DC’s absolute worst character (and that’s a competition that encompasses Voodoo and Sergeant Rock’s idiot son), Barry Allen. Liked by no reasonable human being under the age of…oh, let’s say death, that’s a wide enough net, Barry is a cop with a crew cut so yellow it could only have descended from the most Aryan of stocks, brought back to life in the DC Universe by Geoff Johns in a force of selfish editorial will that does a finer job describing the man’s feelings about comics better than any of the hundreds of stories he’s ever written: Geoff likes Barry Allen the best, and these shine boxes belong to him. However, due to circumstances beyond his control (actually, circumstances he created that were totally within his control), Johns had to hand the actual chore of writing Barry’s adventures to his artist partner, Francis Manapul. And with the assistance of his colorist Brian Buccellato, Manapul’s Flash title has become an intermittently entertaining read, albeit one with plots built to showcase Manapul and Buccellato’s consuming passion for the eye candy aspect of what a super-hero comic can be. Over and over again, the comic strives mostly to stun, and they’re able to manage a solid bit of visual quirkiness every few pages, like panels built out of rivulets of tears, tiny fractures of ice spreading in the wake of speed, or a melodramatic language built mostly from the way Manapul renders eye movements. It’s a display of skill that’s remarkable mostly in how it’s being so totally wasted–here, after all, is a comic that might appeal to children, right when DC has fully mastered the ability to keep those sorts of people outside in the rain, along with all the fucking girls.


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## mali (Mar 30, 2012)

1st page and yet I haven't touched a comic book in like 2 months, oh the shame.

I seriously hope none of the lines that I follow have dipped in quality.


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## Petes12 (Mar 30, 2012)

Shouldn't this be part 2?


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 30, 2012)

*Obligatory mention of where the fuck are Cass and Steph on the first page*


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## Powerful Lord (Mar 30, 2012)

Now every forum decided to do this? 
Seems like you'll have to wait some more 40 pages for Part 2 of this thread


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 30, 2012)

Tazmo did it, not me. I have no powers.


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## Powerful Lord (Mar 30, 2012)

Hey, if it helps the forum then i'm ok with it, the superherohype forums did this too a year ago.


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## Huey Freeman (Mar 30, 2012)

I loving the super girl series from the first 3, I read today also dat costume


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## Taleran (Mar 31, 2012)

The best review of Scott Snyder Batman ever:


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## Blinky (Mar 31, 2012)

Oh it's one of those "it's stupid so I like it" things.


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## Narutossss (Apr 1, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> *Obligatory mention of where the fuck are Cass and Steph on the first page*


Who the fuck??


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## Penance (Apr 2, 2012)

...................


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## Powerful Lord (Apr 2, 2012)

--------hello---------


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 2, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> Who the fuck??



You don't know them?


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## mali (Apr 2, 2012)

Demonk Knights still going strong......right??


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## Narutossss (Apr 3, 2012)

Comic Book Guy said:


> You don't know them?


I've heard about the deaf asian chick or something about her being poorly written, the other I have no clue what so ever. to be honest I don't even know who fuck that pale ass red head one is either.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 3, 2012)

She's not deaf, she's not even mute. Wiki's your friend.


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## Glued (Apr 3, 2012)

Omac is going to be cancelled, Grimm is sad, Grimm is very sad.


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## Parallax (Apr 3, 2012)

more like Grimm is back


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## Narutossss (Apr 3, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> She's not deaf, she's not even mute. Wiki's your friend.


I don't read enough batman to wiki that shit. but I will ask, are they better batgirls than barbra cause she's always been kinda meh to me... shoulda kinda her in a wheelchair


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## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 3, 2012)

Short answer is yes, but that's just me, and putting her annoying fanbase aside I do really like Babs as a character.

Not so much nuBabs, but pre flashpoint Babs.


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## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Apr 3, 2012)

I really don't know which too chose


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## gabzilla (Apr 3, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I don't read enough batman to wiki that shit. but I will ask, are they better batgirls than barbra cause she's always been kinda meh to me... shoulda kinda her in a wheelchair



Well, it depends on what you mean by better.

Better fighter? Cass would easily defeat both Babs and Steph. Better Polyanna? Steph beats them all. Smarter? Babs is allegedly a genius.

Better character? Well, it depends on what you like. I like Steph because I like her attitude and her interactions with other characters. I like Cass because she's a very interesting character and I find her development fascinating. And I like Babs in the BtaS universe because... well, there weren't many female bat members back then.

New Babs can go die in a fire, though.


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## Glued (Apr 3, 2012)

Now that a light-hearted hero like OMAC is being cancelled.
And Captain Marv...Captain Shazam is now dark and gritty.

Only one hero remains fun and campy.

Here is something I found on Deviantart


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## Petes12 (Apr 3, 2012)

Oh god I do hope they kill plastic man 

Btw Omac might be canceled but the character's moving to JLI... so you know, a fate worse than death really.


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## Glued (Apr 3, 2012)

Yes, OMAC LIVES!!!

OMACTIVATE!!!

No one can stop OMAC Donald and his farm.

He's going to cybertron to beat up colony OMACron

Its going to be a serving of OMAC and cheese.

Enemies prepare to OMACiated.


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 3, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Now that a light-hearted hero like OMAC is being cancelled.
> And Captain Marv...Captain Shazam is now dark and gritty.
> 
> Only one hero remains fun and campy.
> ...



Damn right.


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## Powerful Lord (Apr 4, 2012)

Hahahaha, that's true


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## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 4, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> New Babs can go die in a fire, though.



Yeah....

I kinda feel bad for Gail. She finally gets to do a solo for her favorite character, except  it sucks. And It's not even so much Gail writing as it is just nuBabs being a painfully regressed character.


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## mali (Apr 4, 2012)

Wait wut.....looking at the poll, are the lantern books doing that good? The only line in it that is good is the one with Sinestro and new guardians just truned into cosmic shenanigans hurr durr (but don't mind me if the qualitys changed, last issue I read was 6).


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## gabzilla (Apr 4, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yeah....
> 
> I kinda feel bad for Gail. She finally gets to do a solo for her favorite character, except  it sucks. And It's not even so much Gail writing as it is just nuBabs being a painfully regressed character.



I don't tbh. Nobody forced her to write it. 

I know she said they were going to do it anyway but in my opinion she loves the character too much. There has to be a balance. You have to respect a character enough to do it justice when you write it, but few people can be objective when they are writing their favourite characters.

Somebody in Tumblr said that DC is not using Cass and Steph because they would appear too competent next to this Barbara and I have to agree. So I'm afraid we won't be seeing them in a looong time.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 4, 2012)

That's true, Cass could kung fu the crap out of her and Steph vs. Babs would be like those fights in DBZ where the weaker one is just completely dominated by the stronger one's power level.

Except in this case swap out "power level" for "moxy".

But yeah, it's true that most writer's have issues writing fav. characters. I wish they had put Gail on suicide squad (with it basically being the six before they broke free and became the six).


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## Glued (Apr 4, 2012)

Gail really isn't that great, when forced into a corner she just goes straight silver age with Bane on a T-rex or Wonder Woman leading an army of super gorillas.

She is a good writer, but when you see the Gorillas and Dinosaurs, you realize she's run out of ideas.

 And she really doesn't know how to do Silver Age stuff like Grant Morrison.

I remember Cannibal Space Amazons...cannibal space amazons.


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## gabzilla (Apr 4, 2012)

When she's good, she's great, but when she's bad...

I also think that trying to put out the fires DC starts is not helping her.


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## Petes12 (Apr 4, 2012)

I always found her issue to be more that she's always at least on the edge of melodrama. When it works its good but when she goes over that edge it's painful


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 4, 2012)

So reading through the last Superman issue...god was Helspont this talky in the old WildCAts comics? I mean dear lord the endless monlogue from him in this issue


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## Petes12 (Apr 5, 2012)

so there were DC comics this week too. 

i found it hard to follow what was going on vs brainiac in action tbh. the art wasn't very clear and... neither were the words.


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## Taleran (Apr 5, 2012)

I saw the new Swamp Thing look and that thing looks ridiculous in a way that doesn't work for that book.


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## Petes12 (Apr 5, 2012)

I don't mind it, but I liked it better when paquette was doing him a little different each time


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## Taleran (Apr 5, 2012)

I just think the Wings are so counter to what something called Swamp Thing should be it is ridiculous.


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## Petes12 (Apr 5, 2012)

But it makes sense for the story beat. Alec JUST came back from the dead, to be this big savior for everything


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## Glued (Apr 5, 2012)

Taleran said:


> I just think the Wings are so counter to what something called Swamp Thing should be it is ridiculous.



They put wings...on Swamp Thing?


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## Petes12 (Apr 5, 2012)

Pfft it was a really cool moment fuck you both


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## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm with Petes, I like the whole "nature's angel of death" thing they went with.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 5, 2012)

I actually liked the Winged look on him...sure it's different but it's a nice new look


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## Terra Branford (Apr 7, 2012)

Is this the DC discussion thread in all, or just for the new comics?


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## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 8, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> Is this the DC discussion thread in all, or just for the new comics?



Technically it's probably the nu52 discussion thread, although I doubt anyone would care if you posted stuff about the old DCU here.


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 9, 2012)

Yeah, it's pretty much the DC thread here.


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## Terra Branford (Apr 9, 2012)

Good to know. Thanks for answering guys. :33

So I've recently taken up the new Justice League comics, because it was recommended to me. Its not as bad as I heard, though it could use some work (sometimes it felt too fast paced). Though the new Teen Titans is way too fast for my likings, I'm still reading. xD


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## Taleran (Apr 9, 2012)

Too fast paced.....are you trolling?


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## Terra Branford (Apr 9, 2012)

No. Why would I be? It might be because I just started the comics in a whole, but sometimes it felt a little fast. Its just there were moments in the comic where I felt it went a little fast. But maybe "fast paced" is too strong of a word, then.


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## Petes12 (Apr 9, 2012)

I've said it before and I'll say it again Tal, only in comics would people think 'decompressed' comics are slow. Anything else they're a normal pace, or even fast. Because comics are uniquely slow as fuck to come out


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## Taleran (Apr 9, 2012)

Even in relation to other comics though JL moves like molasses.


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## Petes12 (Apr 9, 2012)

That's my point... compared to TV shows JL doesn't move slow at all. Only compared to comics would you ever say that.


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## Taleran (Apr 9, 2012)

No I wouldn't a ton of stuff happens in great TV shows in a single episode. The first 6 issues of JL were all dedicated to a single plot and were composed of under 20 specific scenes.

That isn't that high for a 6 installments of anything. I mean the Justice League animated series did fundamentally the same plot in 3 30 minute episodes.


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## Petes12 (Apr 9, 2012)

Because TV shows run for 20-40 minutes.. they can cover a lot more ground without shortchanging scenes.


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## Taleran (Apr 9, 2012)

Pete your lowered expectations are saddening.


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## Petes12 (Apr 9, 2012)

You're being unrealistic and dishonest with yourself. Fast paced comics, like, you know, anything by morrison? they boil down whole scenes into a few panels, often to serious detriment to the story. If comics wanted to actually match 1 hour tv shows, they'd have to be 120 page graphic novels released every week for 12 weeks.

Just look at AvX 1. That's a comic that compared to any other medium absolutely blasts through story and introductions and totally skips out on a lot of content most other mediums would add in. And it barely covered the setup. It's like 10 minutes of a movie.


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## Taleran (Apr 9, 2012)

Have you read the first three issues of Prophet? That is what all comics should be able to do pacing wise.

They do not which makes it upsetting.

Why would I judge anything against AvX it is a 12 issue series with a specific design, also not very good.


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## Terra Branford (Apr 9, 2012)

Oh my....okay then, its slow. I didn't mean to start anything by it, just how I felt reading it, is all.


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## Petes12 (Apr 10, 2012)

you didn't start anything, i did 

tal's living in a fantasy world


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## Taleran (Apr 10, 2012)

No I am not demanding satisfaction from a product that chooses to deliver itself in single issues is not fantasy it is pragmatism.


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## Parallax (Apr 10, 2012)

I think both Tal and Petes actually have a point

but their wording of it is a bit wonky.  Not like I could word it better myself.


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## ghstwrld (Apr 10, 2012)

Trying to mimic film tricks/techniques is part of the problem.  Lots of DC's stuff reads more like storyboard - bad ones at that - than comics.  And then, of course, there's the bit where stories are artificially extended to meet the six/seven issues per TPB standard.


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## The Pink Ninja (Apr 11, 2012)

B&R 8 was dissapointingly bland.


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## gabzilla (Apr 11, 2012)

It has been bland since day one.

Also, I'm glad Barbara is back in yellow. Steph rocks the purple better.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 11, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> It has been bland since day one.
> 
> Also, I'm glad Barbara is back in yellow. Steph rocks the purple better.



I wouldn't say that. sure it's not on par with Volume 1 but it's been fun so far issue 8 withstanding.

Personally it's one of my favorite bat books


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## Petes12 (Apr 11, 2012)

I like B&R :/


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## Parallax (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't


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## Terra Branford (Apr 11, 2012)

I haven't read it yet, but I am planning to. Though I doubt I won't like it, but I will never know until I read.


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## In Brightest Day! (Apr 11, 2012)

Am I the only one who thought DC missed the mark with not having Dick Grayson (when he was Batman and Bruce Wayne was still dead) as a member of a more "classic" JLA? I know that he was kind of part of _a_ Justice League, but I thought they could have created a cool dynamic with Dick trying to step up to the plate alongside Superman and Wonder Woman as one of the big three. For me, Dick becoming Batman was one of those full-circle type moments, but it felt like he never really became one of the top guns in the DCU like Bruce did.

Wally West stepped up. Roy Harper stepped up (before Cry For fucking Justice). Why not Dick?

Am I alone in this?


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## Terra Branford (Apr 11, 2012)

I think the same about Dick, but to be honest, I've only a limited knowledge on him. I always wondered why he didn't become a member of JLA when he became Nightwing.


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## In Brightest Day! (Apr 12, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> I think the same about Dick, but to be honest, I've only a limited knowledge on him. I always wondered why he didn't become a member of JLA when he became Nightwing.



I think it was simply that he wasn't needed as Bruce was still around.

When Dick became Batman there really wasn't an excuse to not push him up there with the likes of Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern etc. Bucky probably had a bigger widespread role in the Marvel universe during his run as Captain America than Dick did as Bats.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 12, 2012)

It was also a case of unfortunate circumstances. The other characters simply weren't available. Which is why Robinson ended up picking the League he did.


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## tari101190 (Apr 12, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Am I the only one who thought DC missed the mark with not having Dick Grayson (when he was Batman and Bruce Wayne was still dead) as a member of a more "classic" JLA? I know that he was kind of part of _a_ Justice League, but I thought they could have created a cool dynamic with Dick trying to step up to the plate alongside Superman and Wonder Woman as one of the big three. For me, Dick becoming Batman was one of those full-circle type moments, but it felt like he never really became one of the top guns in the DCU like Bruce did.
> 
> Wally West stepped up. Roy Harper stepped up (before Cry For fucking Justice). Why not Dick?
> 
> Am I alone in this?


I wanted all of the original Titans, plus others of a similar age and generation to be the new Justice League. But then the reboot happened. This would have allowed for a nerw generation of Justice League for new readers. And shown how far the original sidekick kids had grown. I guess the original Justice League members could have had supporting roles in the seriesb too just as mentors, or formed a new Justice Siociety instead.

New Justice League should have been:
Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Garth, Roy Harper, Kyle Rayner, Kara, Mon-El, and Connor Hawke.


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## gabzilla (Apr 12, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> I wouldn't say that. sure it's not on par with Volume 1 but it's been fun so far issue 8 withstanding.
> 
> Personally it's one of my favorite bat books





Petes12 said:


> I like B&R :/



I just feel like I've seen it before.


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## Glued (Apr 12, 2012)

Mr. Terrific is getting cancelled.

yes, yes, yes.


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## Bergelmir (Apr 14, 2012)

Aw, did Mr. Terrific turn out to be crap? Wasn't the premise for the book zany super science shenanigans or something? They really managed to mess that up?

On another note, I've been catching up with the DC books, and I'm liking the I, Vampire book. Its not bad. And Demon Knights is fantastic. Like just... superb stuff.


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## In Brightest Day! (Apr 14, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I wanted all of the original Titans, plus others of a similar age and generation to be the new Justice League. But then the reboot happened. This would have allowed for a nerw generation of Justice League for new readers. And shown how far the original sidekick kids had grown. I guess the original Justice League members could have had supporting roles in the seriesb too just as mentors, or formed a new Justice Siociety instead.
> 
> New Justice League should have been:
> Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Garth, Roy Harper, Kyle Rayner, Kara, Mon-El, and Connor Hawke.



Eh, most of the Titan characters have been around nearly as long as Superman, Batman etc. so I'm not sure how that would help with a "new generation" of readers. Unless you're talking about after the reboot? 

I don't know. Personally, I'm more interested in creating new dynamics, rather than bringing back old ones. Dick trying to step up to the level of Superman/Wonder Woman seems more interesting than rehashing the Titans. Just my opinion, though.

I'm also not a fan of overly stacked teams. Say what you will about the current Justice League, but at least no one is just standing around in the background doing nothing. They all feel apart of the story, which IMO is pretty damn important. On that note, my JLA from around that time would have been something like this:

- Superman
- Batman (Dick Grayson)
- Wonder Woman
- Green Lantern (Hal, John or Kyle)
- Flash (Barry Allen)
- Red Arrow
- Black Canary (?)




Bergelmir said:


> It was also a case of unfortunate circumstances. The other characters simply weren't available. Which is why Robinson ended up picking the League he did.



Huh? What were Superman, Wonder Woman and all of the other top sellers doing at that time? My memory is fuzzy.


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## Huey Freeman (Apr 14, 2012)

Mr. Terrific gets his own spinoff for a while and Question gets the shaft man things just unfair. Considering of picking up Blue Beetle yes or no?


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## Bergelmir (Apr 14, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Huh? What were Superman, Wonder Woman and all of the other top sellers doing at that time? My memory is fuzzy.



If I remember correctly, Superman was on New Krypton. Batman was Omega beamed into the past. Martian Manhunter was dead. Aquaman was dead. I can't remember why Wonder Woman wasn't part of the team. I want to say its cause of JMS' run, but I think that was later on.

And Green Arrow and Green Lantern were there at the start of Robinson's run, right? Which covers the classic JLA.

EDIT: 





Huey Freeman said:


> Mr. Terrific gets his own spinoff for a while and Question gets the shaft man things just unfair. Considering of picking up Blue Beetle yes or no?



I've gone through a few issue of Blue Beetle, and its pretty uninspiring. Its far from terrible, but everything it does, the previous Blue Beetle run does better. This run is just more darker. And with badly placed Spanish here and there.

EDIT 2: Take note that I loved the previous run. So I might be judging the book unfairly.


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## tari101190 (Apr 14, 2012)

@In Brightest Day!:

...

If the whole point is to reboot the JL why would you want to see the same JLA just with Dick?

Any they were already semi-rebooted already before the New 52. As pointed out the original team for the most part were not around anyway either dead, off planet, or MIA. Dick, Donna and Supergirl were already making up the JLA. It had all new members or former sidekicks already, like I'm saying. Did you not see the roster before the New 52? Even Wally and Roy were apart of the JLA before too so I don't really see why you don't like the idea of making the original sidekicks the new Justice League, when they all have been or were already before New 52.

And the Titans are clearly not the same ages as the original JLA and so obvioslusly not the same generation. Nothing to do with when they were introduced, just the ages of the characters. New readers should have associated names like Superman and Batman with other characters who were known as the original sidekicks, but not grown up.

It is easier to connected to a character that has gone through a journey and grown up. So the original sidekicks replacing their mentors and partners would have been perfect.


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## Taleran (Apr 14, 2012)

Okay so DC has all these people doing work for them, but the Nu52 is full of bland uninspired books.

It is insane.



> Launching in June and set to release every Thursday, the Batman digital-first series will not take place in any specific continuity, and feature short stories by a variety of creators -- kind of a color, digital version of the great Batman: Black & White format of the 1990s. Besides Lindelof and Lemire, the creative teams announced so far are: Jonathan Larsen and JG Jones; Tom Taylor and Nicola Scott; Ales Kot and Ryan Sook; B. Clay Moore and Ben Templesmith; Steve Niles and Trevor Hairsine; Joe Harris and Jason Masters; TJ Fixman and Christopher Mitten; Jeff Parker and Gabriel Hardman; Joshua Hale Fialkov and Phil Hester; David Tischman and Chris Sprouse. According to DC's The Source, more creative team announcements are on the way.
> 
> 
> Launching next month and set to release every Monday, Ame-Comi Girls is based on DC Direct's DC Collectibles' line of popular figures that re-imagines female heroes and villains in an anime-influenced style as designed by the artists of UDON Entertainment. The digital series is to be written by Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray (All-Star Western, Power Girl) and feature different artists for each character: Wonder Woman from Amanda Conner and Tony Akins, Batgirl from Sanford Greene, Duela Dent from Ted Naifeh, and Power Girl from Mike Bowden. There's also Supergirl from Santi Casas.


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## tari101190 (Apr 14, 2012)

Taleran said:


> Okay so DC has all these people doing work for them, but the Nu52 is full of bland uninspired books...


Yes I am findig it diffucult to find a Nu52 book that I can really get into as passionately as I am with other ongoing books or even miniseries', not just from Marvel but other publishers and idependants too. It just doesn't seem new or exciting to me, just the same thing again 'rebooted'. DC cling to their well known products too much and are afraid to do really new things I would say. It seems like they need approval from fans to do certain changes too.


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## Petes12 (Apr 14, 2012)

they've got a lot of pretty good books now, much more than they used to. lot of mediocre and shitty stuff too but i thought that was expected?


but lol, beast boy is in that bad ravagers book and is red now.


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## ghstwrld (Apr 15, 2012)

Wait, Mr. Terrific is canceled?  What?  And that's even though the first TPB hasn't been released yet?  I preordered it some time ago and don't remember receiving it.


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## Terra Branford (Apr 16, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I've gone through a few issue of Blue Beetle, and its pretty uninspiring. Its far from terrible, but everything it does, the previous Blue Beetle run does better. This run is just more darker. And with badly placed Spanish here and there.
> 
> EDIT 2: Take note that I loved the previous run. So I might be judging the book unfairly.



I was suggested to read new Blue Beetle issues recently. Good thing I saw this...will have to wait for last, then.


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## tari101190 (Apr 16, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> they've got a lot of pretty good books now, much more than they used to. lot of mediocre and shitty stuff too but i thought that was expected?


I don't necassarily mean that DC books are bad, it's just that I am not liking the books. They don't have the right themes, genre or art combination tthat I like. 

From Marvel I only read espionage-ish superhero books or dark noir-ish  superhero books. DC has nothing like that excet for Suicide Squad, which I don't even like too much. 

If you would recommend any books like that that are not Batman, I will try to read them. So espionage or darker themed comics. Apparently Animal-Man and Swamp Thing are good, but they're horor not espionage.



> ...but lol, beast boy is in that bad ravagers book and is red now.


Please, no.


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## Narutossss (Apr 16, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> DC cling to their well known products too much and are afraid to do really new things I would say. It seems like they need approval from fans to do certain changes too.


 I won't lie dc and marvel have some serious creativity issues, I mean dc's biggest properties right now are superman, batman, green lantern and they were created in the late 30's to 40's right and lets look at shuiesha's current biggest comics one piece and naruto... created in 97 and 99. LOOOL


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## Huey Freeman (Apr 16, 2012)

Task Force X series would have made a great espionage book.


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## Guy Gardner (Apr 16, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> Yes I am findig it diffucult to find a Nu52 book that I can really get into as passionately as I am with other ongoing books or even miniseries', not just from Marvel but other publishers and idependants too. It just doesn't seem new or exciting to me, just the same thing again 'rebooted'. DC cling to their well known products too much and are afraid to do really new things I would say. It seems like they need approval from fans to do certain changes too.



Really? Marvel has basically cut anything that doesn't say "Spider-Man", "Avengers", or "X-Men". The only thing I passionately read is Uncanny, and that looks like it'll be coming to an end soon with this stupid crossover.

On the DC side, though, I'm rather passionate about The Flash, Demon Knights, Action Comics, Batman, and All-Star Western. On the fringes of that are Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Batwing, and a few others. I mean, to me there's a helluva lot more variety in what DC is producing compared to most of the stuff Marvel is putting out because Marvel has really gotten a lot more conservative with what they are willing to publish.

I suppose I have to question what criteria you are judging it on. I know it's largely opinion-based, but I just don't see it.



Narutossss said:


> I won't lie dc and marvel have some serious creativity issues, I mean dc's biggest properties right now are superman, batman, green lantern and they were created in the late 30's to 40's right and lets look at shuiesha's current biggest comics one piece and naruto... created in 97 and 99. LOOOL



That's one of the most hilariously retarded metrics for creativity I've ever seen. Thanks, I needed a good laugh today.


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## tari101190 (Apr 16, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Really? Marvel has basically cut anything that doesn't say "Spider-Man", "Avengers", or "X-Men". The only thing I passionately read is Uncanny, and that looks like it'll be coming to an end soon with this stupid crossover.
> 
> On the DC side, though, I'm rather passionate about The Flash, Demon Knights, Action Comics, Batman, and All-Star Western. On the fringes of that are Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Batwing, and a few others. I mean, to me there's a helluva lot more variety in what DC is producing compared to most of the stuff Marvel is putting out because Marvel has really gotten a lot more conservative with what they are willing to publish.
> 
> I suppose I have to question what criteria you are judging it on. I know it's largely opinion-based, but I just don't see it.


I guess I am not looking for 'variety', just a good book to keep me interested. In terms of art, premise, and writing.

The DC books you have listed, I have read but am not liking as much as I would have hoped. I only really like Stormwatch at the moment.

From Marvel I LOVE X-Force, Secret Avengers, Venom, Winter Soldier, Age of Apocalypse, Fantastic Four and Battle Scars.

America's got Powers was brilliant and Supercrooks looks like it will be great too.

From what I listed, what DC books would you recommend? As you can see I don't read any strictly mainstream Marvel books either. They all have a very similar tone I would say too.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 16, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> I was suggested to read new Blue Beetle issues recently. Good thing I saw this...will have to wait for last, then.



I highly recommend Jaime's first blue beetle series. And I totally agree with the above that it's just like the first one but darker and more hispanic.


----------



## Terra Branford (Apr 16, 2012)

I want to start the new Flash series, heard it was pretty good. Gotta finish the Crisis stuff first though. xD

@Whip Whirlwind

Alright then, will definitely read the first one, then.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Apr 16, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> I want to start the new Flash series, heard it was pretty good. Gotta finish the Crisis stuff first though. xD
> 
> @Whip Whirlwind
> 
> Alright then, will definitely read the first one, then.



Oh Flash is Fantastic...one of my favorites actually. It should be right up your alley


----------



## Guy Gardner (Apr 17, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I guess I am not looking for 'variety', just a good book to keep me interested. In terms of art, premise, and writing.
> 
> The DC books you have listed, I have read but am not liking as much as I would have hoped. I only really like Stormwatch at the moment.



Stormwatch is one of those books I enjoy but I'm not "I NEEDS MAH STORMWATCH FIX!"



> From Marvel I LOVE X-Force, Secret Avengers, Venom, Winter Soldier, Age of Apocalypse, Fantastic Four and Battle Scars.



Taste is fully your own, though I dropped X-Force with the newest arc because it was doing little for me. I missed out on Winter Soldier but I do get FF... I'm just not passionate about it. Venom is something I've been meaning to try out, but I simply lack the funds to. And I'm simply not buying any Avengers books right now.



> America's got Powers was brilliant and Supercrooks looks like it will be great too.



I'm interested, but not sure if I can spare the cash. Looks like I'll see if I can find a back issue of the former.



> From what I listed, what DC books would you recommend? As you can see I don't read any strictly mainstream Marvel books either. They all have a very similar tone I would say too.



Once you've shot down the books I've just mentioned, it's pretty hard to think of other ones; the ones I mentioned were being honest-to-God really creative with the characters, _especially_ Manapul on the Flash. He's adding a lot of neat ideas to the Flash toybox and he's doing so many fun things with the art. I mean, out of the ones I didn't mention (mostly due to time) were Superboy and Batman & Robin. Oddly enough I haven't really been into GL, but the Batman and Superman franchises have really been sucking me in lately.


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 17, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> Oddly enough I haven't really been into GL



Aaah, I knew I was forgetting something about the new 52. I haven't checked out any of the GL books.

Did the Kyle Rayner book end up as bad as it seemed it would be? How is John Stewart in GLC?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Apr 17, 2012)

None of them are really bad, they're just sort of average right now. I have GLC issues on my desk which I just haven't gotten around to. Red Lantern has been the one rather interesting one, mostly because Milligan is having a lot of fun evolving the Red Lantern Corps.


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 17, 2012)

Well, I guess thats better than the books being bad. Although, I would have expected the main GL book to be crazy awesome with Sinestro as the protagonist. I'll check 'em out when I get home.


----------



## tari101190 (Apr 17, 2012)

I read Action Comics but stopped. Same with Demon Knights and Suicide Squad. I'll guess I will just read those again. X-Force's current arc and artist are done now by the way. It will be back to 'top quality' now.

And I want to stay away from Batman to be honest. Oh and if Green Lantern gets really sci-fi with space fights and alien technology, then I will read that. I want giant cosmic fights.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah it's really hard for me to keep up with GL. So so so so so so so tired of all the rainbow corps crap.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 17, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Did the Kyle Rayner book end up as bad as it seemed it would be? How is John Stewart in GLC?



Yes and not good.

New Guardians was obviously just the leftovers. "Well, we need a kyle book, and we need to put all those rainbow corps guys somehwere" was obviously the train of thought for the conception of this book.

GLC isn't bad, but im tired of John just being the hardcore military who always makes the "tough" decisions. 

If they're really going that direction with John, it would have been cooler to have a Corpse (remember those black ops lanterns?) book with him, and then have Kyle and Guy together in GLC.

Mostly though I just want space stories, with space crime and space war and space politics and all that jazz. Not just X lantern vs. Y lantern.


----------



## Glued (Apr 17, 2012)

"Like some God ate a rainbow and the vomitted over the universe." -Lobo, the Main Man


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah, wow, the Guardians books is pretty boring. GLC is decent but feels stretched out a bit(but then that goes for nearly every DC book). I do like the concept behind the Keepers.

The main GL book is awesome in how much of a douche Hal is. I mean... dear god, his dinner with Carol was spectacular. Although, it was nice to see Hal finally drop the idiot ball once he was separated from Sinestro in the most recent issue.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 18, 2012)

cant lie i thought this was funny


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 19, 2012)

Butt Arrow! The bane of all androids.


----------



## tari101190 (Apr 19, 2012)

I like issue 7 and 8 of JL. And the art in issue 7 was better than Jim Lee's too.

And I want to see the JL vs Martian Manhunter. Hopefully in a Stormwatch crossover.

I wonder if Green Arrow will be joining Suicide Squad?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 19, 2012)

Yeah GA issue of JL wasn't bad. Mainly because GA was fun and the JL are just dicks. And lol at their history with martian manhunter.

Oh yeah, Batman and Nightwing were both awesome. Loved IronBatman and Nightwing's solution to the Talon's regen. 

Oh and let me know if this is just me, but did Barrows step it up on Nightwing? The art seems really improved. I was really pleasantly surprised by the issue overall, best issue yet imo.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 19, 2012)

my god.

DC is bringing VIBE back! biggest news ever

oh yeah and they're doing some kind of 'trinity war' event.

blah blah blah 
*Spoiler*: __ 



“has probably something to do with the Trinity of Evil which gets introduced in DC’s FCBD comic. Pandora is one of the Trinity.”

“It appears to be the 3 original sinners, of which Pandora has already been disclosed. Let me just say that the identities of the other 2 will surprise and amaze you.”

“I read the FCBD issue from DC last night. Trinity War probably has to do with the three sinners of the DC New. One is Pandora, the other is the [REDACTED], and weirdly the last one is the [REDACTED]. That’s right. [REDACTED] is somehow magic based now. Also, they are punished by the seven gods who gave Shazam his power.”

“In it, there is a group referred to as the “Trinity of Sin.” This group includes Pandora,[REDACTED], and [REDACTED] (I have no idea why). The Rock of Eternity, a council of powerful wizards (thanks, Geoff Johns), sentences them to [REDACTED]. This may have something do with DC’s Trinity War, but I’m not sure. Maybe Pandora, [REDACTED], and [REDACTED] versus Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman? Who knows?”


*Spoiler*: __ 



black adam is obviously one of the redacted guys


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 19, 2012)

in other news Jim Lee still does not know how to draw people running. his flash looks like brett booth's kid flash, albeit with less brokeback


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 19, 2012)

This is another multi-title crossover event?


----------



## tari101190 (Apr 19, 2012)

Yeah that's from Free Comic Book day issue. Probably Justice League.

The guy on the far left loooks cool.

So there are three new characters to DC now which is cool; the purple teen titan gay guy, metamorpho woman, and the (what I'm assuming are) concussive blasts guy. Atleast they're expanding a bit. I just hope the stories are intresting to me. Only book it seems like I read are Justice League and Stormwatch.

And I dobut Black Adam is apart ofthe Trinity.

Isn't it Pandora, The Phantom Stranger and somebody else. But that last somebody should be a trechcoat wearin gmysterious person. Well it could be, but I don't want it to be Black Adam.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 19, 2012)

thats blates vibe tari (which is hilarious, but also intriguing )

and i guess it'll be their event book next year ghstwrld


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 19, 2012)

also from bleeding cool, i guess in september all the 52 series will be getting 'issue 0s'.

which for once actually sounds like a cool idea. could fill in some badly needed history


----------



## Taleran (Apr 19, 2012)

Sounds like a terrible idea.  Lets hit the brakes again a year into our relaunch.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 19, 2012)

its just one issue


----------



## Taleran (Apr 19, 2012)

It isn't about the length it is about the motivation for it. It just rings like needless continuity patches that no one really cares about.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 19, 2012)

but a lot of people do care about it

and more importantly on some books it's definitely not needless.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 19, 2012)

Maybe it is just perspective but choosing to go after continuity before story seems really wrong for me. If you tell good stories with well done writing and art continuity patches are not necessary.

Continuity is one of the the biggest shackles that are holding Marvel & DC back.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 19, 2012)

Well, I can't disagree with story over continuity, but a lot of these new series felt like they jumped in mid-story. 

ie in birds of prey 1, the team is already fully formed, in captain atom and hawkman 1 those guys are already superheroes well past their respective origin stories. For new readers especially a zero issue would be pretty nice. 

And I wouldn't mind seeing new, modern takes on the beginnings of a lot of these characters. A lot of them I don't even know their 'origin stories', like Guy and John in GLC.


TLDR- a lot of those comics could use, not continuity wanking, but just a proper beginning to their stories.


----------



## Zen-aku (Apr 19, 2012)

oh god this new continuity just keeps confusing me more and  more


----------



## Platinum (Apr 20, 2012)

Red Hood and The Outlaws is really hitting its stride. This issue was a nice blend of killing shit and comedy.


----------



## Zen-aku (Apr 20, 2012)

Yes it is pretty damn awesome isn't it.

JAson and tim being BFF's was odd however


----------



## Platinum (Apr 20, 2012)

I took it more as a working relationship trading info with each other. 

The scene with Roy putting out the smoldering remains of the mooks with the fire extinguisher slayed me .


----------



## Zen-aku (Apr 20, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I took it more as a working relationship trading info with each other.



over waffels and fond memories


----------



## Nightblade (Apr 20, 2012)

so what's this Trinity War shit I'm hearing about.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 20, 2012)

Was Jason kicking the crap out of Tim retconned? If I remember things correctly it occurred in the Titan tower but seeing as the group has only just reformed it could not have occurred.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 20, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Was Jason kicking the crap out of Tim retconned? If I remember things correctly it occurred in the Titan tower but seeing as the group has only just reformed it could not have occurred.



I think most of Jason's embarrassing daddy issue moments have been retconned. Jason beating up Tim simply for replacing him is likely one of them.


----------



## Platinum (Apr 20, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> over waffels and fond memories



It's not like Jason was jumping at the chance .

Also i'm not sure if him beating the snot out of Tim was retconned cause he does say "I wasn't the nicest person to you either Tim."


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 22, 2012)

So I didn't expect to like Justice League 8 as much as I did. I reaaally want to know what went down with J'onn and the League.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 22, 2012)

you guys still read JL... quit that after 6 and read the captain "MARVEL" back story on 7. Only reading batman now from dc. The creative team of synder, capulo, glapion and flo is too good to resist... flo's colors on invicible were tight!


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 22, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> you guys still read JL... *quit that after 6* and read the captain "MARVEL" back story on 7. Only reading batman now from dc. The creative team of synder, capulo, glapion and flo is too good to resist... flo's colors on invicible were tight!



Reading the first six issues was your mistake. I just skipped the first arc, and started from issue 7. Once Johns gets past laying down character dynamics crappily, and moves on to the big goddamn heroes stories, it should be good.

And you don't like the Billy Batson backup? I think its great.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 23, 2012)

Platinum said:


> It's not like Jason was jumping at the chance .
> 
> Also i'm not sure if him beating the snot out of Tim was retconned cause he does say "I wasn't the nicest person to you either Tim."



True, read the issue, and I think it's more just Tim considering it water under the bridge.

And yeah JL was worth it just for the Manhunter ownage.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Apr 23, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Was Jason kicking the crap out of Tim retconned? If I remember things correctly it occurred in the Titan tower but seeing as the group has only just reformed it could not have occurred.



This is the first time Tim has formed a group, so it's almost impossible for it to happen.

I actually did like the part he said about the statues. "Even Cole has a statue! I was a Titan. _Where's my statue_?!"


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 23, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Reading the first six issues was your mistake. I just skipped the first arc, and started from issue 7. Once Johns gets past laying down character dynamics crappily, and moves on to the big goddamn heroes stories, it should be good.
> 
> And you don't like the Billy Batson backup? I think its great.


I don't know jl just lost me. I *did* like the billy batson backup. batman was constantly good. Personal i'm starting to like standalones and minis more than ongoings, continuty is far too confusing.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Apr 23, 2012)

The smartest thing Johns seems to have done is to not focus on the villains that the Justice League are fighting because, as they've said, "We're the Justice League. We've got this." Instead he's trying to focus on the dynamics of the team, which he's doing a lot better than he was doing through the mid-end issues of the previous arc.

Frankly, it's a good choice. Too many times JL stories and arcs get bogged down in who they are fighting and building them up to be worth fighting the JL. Putting the JL ahead of whoever they are trouncing that weekend is a smart idea.


----------



## gabzilla (Apr 23, 2012)

You don't diss Alfred's waffles.  Who is this impostor?


----------



## Glued (Apr 23, 2012)

Ma Kent makes better waffles than Alfred ever did.

Wait, did I just try trolling...huh, this forum is affecting my behavior.


----------



## Rukia (Apr 25, 2012)

Is Superman fighting the masochist in the next issue?  I am determined to buy that one.  Sounds too interesting to pass up.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 25, 2012)

so this turbine guy is the new top i guess?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 27, 2012)

Maybe, he could just be Turbine though. Outside of spinning they're completely different, and a lot of what Top was about was that he was intelligent and could screw with your perception.

On another note, Earth 2 needs to have Zatanna and Green Arrow have a kid


----------



## gabzilla (Apr 27, 2012)

Helenaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 

Fuck everything


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 27, 2012)

What happened to Huntress?


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 27, 2012)

she's now from earth 2 and is going to be hanging around powergirl in their own title. which will be drawn by perez so I won't be trying it


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 27, 2012)

Ooooh. I hope she doesn't end up with a costume as bad as Power Girl's. I don't know if its been changed, but the red/white one I saw a while back was quite bad.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 27, 2012)

ps isn't perez just the greatest artist ever?? still amazes me that people actually think that


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 27, 2012)

Yeah, thats the one. Bleargh. But I guess Helena won't have any changes? Which is good.

I personally like Perez, but the greatest? Nah.


On another note, the Swamp Thing #9 preview looks great: .


----------



## Taleran (Apr 27, 2012)

This is kinda disheartening.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 27, 2012)

hahahaha wow

not even "and writers"!


----------



## Parallax (Apr 27, 2012)

That's kinda par of the course for any major company ever

that MO is gonna be the same for any media based company


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 27, 2012)

still funny **


----------



## gabzilla (Apr 27, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> she's now from earth 2 and is going to be hanging around powergirl in their own title. which will be drawn by perez so I won't be trying it



Helena Bertinelli is confirmed dead in World's Finest 1. She's the Huntress I cared about.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 28, 2012)

implication seems to be that now, huntress was wayne all along and bertinelli was just her cover name.

stupid though, bertinelli was cooler. they went the wrong direction, should've made powergirl native to the main DCU :|


----------



## Rukia (Apr 28, 2012)

I will keep reading Justice League I suppose.  Hal Jordan giving Batman shit every issue never fails to amuse me.  So I have that to look forward to at least.





gabzilla said:


> Helena Bertinelli is confirmed dead in World's Finest 1. She's the Huntress I cared about.


Yeah.  That's how I feel too.


----------



## Penance (Apr 29, 2012)

I've gotten to like Fury of Firestorm, more and more...


----------



## Id (Apr 29, 2012)

Picked up I Vampire. Love every page of it.


----------



## Bergelmir (Apr 29, 2012)

Sinestro said:


> Picked up I Vampire. Love every page of it.



Right? I was surprised how good it was. The crossover with JLA Dark was pretty fun too.


----------



## Petes12 (May 3, 2012)

i lol'd at action comics

that's the sort of morrison-y craziness i expect


----------



## Petes12 (May 3, 2012)

ps morrison killed off the lil' leaguers


----------



## Parallax (May 3, 2012)

Go Morrison :]


----------



## tari101190 (May 6, 2012)

*Free Comic Book Day*
Ok wow so The Trinity of Sin are Phantom Stranger, Pandora and Question.

The Question is now officially magic realated. And he doesn't wear a mask. His face is just like that. And it appears that the Rock of Eternity are the SHAZAM elder guys too. The first ever practitioners and masters of magic.

I noticed that their may be two seperate Justice League teams too soon. With Green arrow most likely on the other team, since Steve Trevor recently asked him to join a team, and Black Adam possibly being on one of the them. And a new Green Lantern.

Also I like the development of the A.R.G.U.S. organization. They do seem like a S.H.I.E.L.D. rip-off, but whatever. I think they will recruit their own Superhero team too, perhaps due to distrust of the Justice League.

*Earth 2*
So Earth 2 Flash get's his power from the  Roman God Mercury? I think I like that better than the speed force. It implies that superheroes are new modern incarnations of gods. Drawing from the same power (probably The Source).

I am hoping Alan Scott's powers are somehow mysticly related too, giving him and Jay a connection.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 6, 2012)

So i'm definitly going to continue picking up Dial H and Earth 2...both are pretty fun. Dial H in particular deserves to succeed. 

World's finest i'm going to give one more issue before I decide. GI Combat i'm straight up not bothering with again.


----------



## Petes12 (May 6, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> *Earth 2*
> So Earth 2 Flash get's his power from the  Roman God Mercury? I think I like that better than the speed force.



It at least beats 'hard water'


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> she's now from earth 2 and is going to be hanging around powergirl in their own title. *which will be drawn by perez so I won't be trying it*



I invoke a Terry Long lookalike familiar upon you.


----------



## gabzilla (May 7, 2012)

Batman Inc pek


----------



## Petes12 (May 7, 2012)

where


----------



## gabzilla (May 7, 2012)

I'm excited about it. 

That said, I bought Gotham Central and damn you DC for scaring Rucka off.


----------



## Petes12 (May 7, 2012)

Yeah I wonder what happened there. Oh well... punisher's good


----------



## Petes12 (May 8, 2012)

new hawkgirl

is it just me or is that easily one of the best redesigns to come out of the relaunch?


----------



## Petes12 (May 8, 2012)

Also


----------



## Guy Gardner (May 8, 2012)

Did anyone almost miss Mirror Master?


----------



## Petes12 (May 8, 2012)

Man, I really like those new rogue designs too. 

Replacing the green on mirror master with a mirrory look, why has no one thought of that?


----------



## Guy Gardner (May 8, 2012)

Kind of Deadshot-y, but it works. The redesign of the Top as Turbine was rather great, and I'm interested in what the hell is up with what I can only assume is the Golden Glider. Weather Wizard's costume is also a great step up.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 8, 2012)

New rogues are awesome, as expected. Nice that Mirror Master and Weather Wizard are still relying on gadgets. I like Cold and Heatwave going meta, but don't think it's the right call for all of them.


----------



## Petes12 (May 8, 2012)

heatwave doesn't look strictly meta, if at all. Unless his powers are more controlling the fire ala that one x-men guy.


----------



## Guy Gardner (May 8, 2012)

Pyro? And Weather Wizard doesn't look completely meta. I do like the staff instead of the wand, though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 9, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> heatwave doesn't look strictly meta, if at all. Unless his powers are more controlling the fire ala that one x-men guy.



Heatwave looks more like he just internalized the mechanics of his gun, which is cool. Given his addiction it would make sense that he would want the fire "inside him" or whatever.

Curious about a "flash event" though.


----------



## Rukia (May 9, 2012)

Damn.  Deadshot owned Resurrection Man.


----------



## gabzilla (May 9, 2012)

The art of Flash is so very pretty.


----------



## Platinum (May 10, 2012)

I'm pleased with the night of the owls so far. 

And Green Lantern was pretty solid.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 10, 2012)

I very much liked the history of the Indigo Tribe. A bit disappointed with the issue's ending, but it will do.


----------



## Platinum (May 10, 2012)

Yeah me too, even if it sounds more like it belongs in Warhammer 40K than the DC universe lol.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 10, 2012)

I don't know anything about Warhammer 40K, but yeah, Abin Sur's plan is more dark than I would expect from DC. Although I sorta want to see the plan succeed in some way. It would be interesting to see how things would turn out.


----------



## Platinum (May 10, 2012)

They are ratcheting up the grimdarkness in the gl line that's for sure.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2012)

Kind of bummed at the Guardians being essentially the final villain. But I'm not surprised, it's not like Geoff hasn't been writing them as straight up bad guys since SCW.

Indigo tribe was cool though.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 10, 2012)

I wonder if Johns is setting things up to finish his run on the franchise. 2 Corps are down. And he's pushing the Guardians into unredeemable territory. Up 'till now they've just been arrogant and stupid. They're starting to hit evil now. It feels like he's setting up the dominoes for the final story.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2012)

I like that he's streamlining the corps, but I hate his treatment of the guardians. Yes they should be arrogant, but they shouldn't be downright stupid and they shouldn't be downright evil.


----------



## Parallax (May 10, 2012)

it would bother me, but I never liked them to begin with so I'm indifferent with it.


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2012)

Their comeuppance has been a long time coming

I actually liked the reveal that the compassion rings were meant for the guardians


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2012)

Parallax said:


> it would bother me, but I never liked them to begin with so I'm indifferent with it.



I dunno, I like the Guardians as the grumpy Sergeants /Captains of the Green Lanterns. 

IMO it's a necessary part of the space cop dynamic, which is why I started to like GL in the first place. 

I'd be okay with one or two guardians being corrupt and manipulating the others, but to have the guardians as a whole be "bad guys" is kind of lame for me. Like how will this end, will the GLs be guardianless?

Admittedly I'd be cool with Salaak running the corps for a little bit.

Also, most of the GL i've read has been johns, but from the non-johns stuff I've read the Guardians never seemed downright idiotic. Ever since John started writing them they seem to have slowly gone from "Arrogant but intelligent creatures whose fear of emotions leads to questionable/bad decisions" to "Arrogant and retarded creatures whose fear of everything leads to all of their decisions being wrong"


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 10, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I dunno, I like the Guardians as the grumpy Sergeants /Captains of the Green Lanterns.
> 
> IMO it's a necessary part of the space cop dynamic, which is why I started to like GL in the first place.
> 
> ...



I mean it's ridiculous that it's getting to the point where you can say "Hal was right to violently murder you guys" and be fucking right.

I get the feeling Ganthet will snap out of the control the other guardians put him under and he'll grab a couple of the other ones while the rest will get killed again


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2012)

Yeah, I just don't like it how instead of thinking "The guardians are the bad guys because of reasons X, Y, and Z" i'm thinking "the guardians are the bad guys because geoff wants them to be bad guys".


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2012)

You say that like they were suddenly written this way. 

I think Geoff's been heading towards this from the start of his run, or at least since SCW. Surprised it didn't happen sooner, when they were doing their new laws thing. I mean, cmon, the Alpha Lanterns thing was blatantly evil right?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2012)

Oh no I agree, but the fact that the Sinestro Corps War is all it took for the Guardians to go full on idiot fascist makes me wonder how they managed to stay in power for 234512352345345 years in the first place.


----------



## Platinum (May 10, 2012)

Yeah I get what you are saying. They are being written a little too stupidly evil but I have no problem with them being the upcoming villains.


----------



## Rukia (May 10, 2012)

I don't see how the Birds of Prey are going to deal with Talon in this next issue.  After Canary's confession last time... it seems like a lot of material to cram in.  Especially since Starling and Ivy aren't around at the moment.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Yeah I get what you are saying. They are being written a little too stupidly evil but I have no problem with them being the upcoming villains.



I just hope it isn't ALL the guardians. Like it's ridiculous that only 2 of them have any kind of good in them.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 10, 2012)

Upgrading the dickish semi-competence of the Guardians to full-on villainy sounds fine to me.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2012)

Is there anyone here who's read a decent amount of pre-johns GLC (not counting Kyle's 1 guardian days)? It just bugs me when Johns changes characters to suit his plot.


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2012)

I really don't get why this is suddenly bothering you


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 10, 2012)

Oh jesus I forgot Liefeld was taking over Deathstroke this month...on the other hand the book does have Lobo in it


----------



## Platinum (May 11, 2012)

God damn it Liefeld...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I really don't get why this is suddenly bothering you



I know I'm overreacting, but it just feels forced to me.


----------



## Rukia (May 11, 2012)

I'm upset by all the crossovers this month.  The Night of Owls is something I accept.  The quality of the Owls storyline has been sensational so far and I knew about this event months in advance.  I will buy comics I don't normally buy as a result.

But I read the new Suicide Squad.  I was forced to continue in Resurrection Man.  I read the new Justice League Dark.  I was forced to continue in I, Vampire.  I mean seriously.  This shit is getting ridiculous.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 11, 2012)

I don't mind it when it fits thematically, and when both books are good. So I was cool with the I, Vampire / JLDark crossover. 

But I already buy both of those anyway.


----------



## gabzilla (May 11, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Kind of bummed at the Guardians being essentially the final villain. But I'm not surprised, it's not like Geoff hasn't been writing them as straight up bad guys since SCW.
> 
> Indigo tribe was cool though.



I'm watching the GL animated series and I like it waaaay more than the comics right now.

Hope they introduce all the corps, because I think they are cool


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 11, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> I'm watching the GL animated series and I like it waaaay more than the comics right now.
> 
> Hope they introduce all the corps, because I think they are cool



It is pretty good. My only issue is that there's a little too much laser spam and not enough contstructs. Not saying there aren't some cool ones, but it seems like when the show goes into epic battle scene mode the lanterns are just throwing around beams and rage breath (for the reds)


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2012)

lasers _are_ cooler than constructs...

I'm not watching the show but I'm thinking of John Stewart on JL/JLU.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 11, 2012)

Eh, lasers are boring.


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2012)

depends on how good the animation is


----------



## gabzilla (May 11, 2012)

Lasers are cool. 

Though I would like more constructs too


----------



## Cromer (May 12, 2012)

Why the hell was Midnighter seeing a Batman silhouette when he was monologuing in his mind about the Shadow Lords tossing him out like bad trash? He got history with the Bat that I can't remember?


----------



## tari101190 (May 12, 2012)

I think it was just to comparae Midnighter to Batman. Otherwise it was to say that Batman and the JL will go after Midnighter if becomes a killer. But I think it's the former. Batman has said something similar before I'm sure.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 12, 2012)

Cromer said:


> He got history with the Bat that I can't remember?



The JLA and others met the Authority and other Wildstormers in some crossover story (I remember Midnighter was tagging along with Raven at one point), but it could have been not canon or reality sheanigans, like when the Planetary cast was dealing with the multiple incarnations of Batman across history.


----------



## Petes12 (May 12, 2012)

Stormwatch has no canon history outside of it's DCnU series


----------



## Cromer (May 12, 2012)

The Rot is sneakily becoming one of THE threats of the DCnU. Hope it doesn't get appropriated by the mega-crossover. This deserves to stay within Animal Man and Swamp Thing. Though an appearance by the JLD wouldn't be too horrible, I suppose. Actually, John Constantine should get involved at some point.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 12, 2012)

Cromer said:


> The Rot is sneakily becoming one of THE threats of the DCnU. Hope it doesn't get appropriated by the mega-crossover. This deserves to stay within Animal Man and Swamp Thing. Though an appearance by the JLD wouldn't be too horrible, I suppose. Actually, John Constantine should get involved at some point.



He's going to pop up eventually as he was in that vision Animal Man had a few issues back where his daughter and Swamp Thing are fighting The Rot


----------



## Bergelmir (May 12, 2012)

Cromer said:


> The Rot is sneakily becoming one of THE threats of the DCnU. Hope it doesn't get appropriated by the mega-crossover. This deserves to stay within Animal Man and Swamp Thing. Though an appearance by the JLD wouldn't be too horrible, I suppose.* Actually, John Constantine should get involved at some point.*


He going to be appearing from the next Animal Man issue.


----------



## Powerful Lord (May 13, 2012)

Cromer said:


> The Rot is sneakily becoming one of THE threats of the DCnU. Hope it doesn't get appropriated by the mega-crossover. This deserves to stay within Animal Man and Swamp Thing. Though an appearance by the JLD wouldn't be too horrible, I suppose. Actually, John Constantine should get involved at some point.



The Daemonites are becoming one too, when is the Animal Man/ Swamp Thing crossover going to happen, i've been hearing about that since their issues #3.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 13, 2012)

It looks like Frankenstein is going to get drawn into this as well going by the latest issue where he's fighting Rotlings


----------



## Platinum (May 13, 2012)

Frank is a pretty good person to get involved with it really all things considered.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 14, 2012)

Looking at DC's August solicits it would appear JLI is getting axed. I'm surprised it lasted this long considering how mediocre it was to begin with.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 14, 2012)

It wasn't that bad, but are you sure they're cancelling it? Kinda stupid for them to put Lemire on the title and then just axe it.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 14, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> It wasn't that bad, but are you sure they're cancelling it? Kinda stupid for them to put Lemire on the title and then just axe it.



Eh I personally didn't care for it. it really only got interesting for me like a issue ago when OMAC showed up

Solicits are saying issue 12 is the final issue...so unless something different is happening, it sure looks like it


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2012)

Lemire is on JLD, not JLI as far as I know 

also I see Jurgens killed off rocket red after eviscerating his personality, confirming that JLI was the worst book of the entire relaunch including liefeld books


----------



## Rukia (May 14, 2012)

I received a letter from DC.  My Birds of Prey subscription has been canceled.  I will receive two more issues and then my subscription will default to Batgirl.


----------



## Parallax (May 14, 2012)

hahaha from bad to worse


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2012)

Birds of Prey isn't bad :|


----------



## Rukia (May 14, 2012)

Yeah.  Fuck you Parallax.  Birds of Prey is good.  They just need a better artist on the series.

Batgirl though.  I am not happy about this.  I should call and switch to something else.  Maybe I can do Batman Incorporated?


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2012)

I thought Saiz was great, but Foreman's gonna do art soon

edit: 

Action Comics
 Batman
 Detective Comics
 Justice League

 Batgirl
 Batman and Robin
 Batman: The Dark Knight
 Catwoman T+
 The Flash
 Green Arrow
 Green Lantern
 Green Lantern Corps
 Nightwing
 Supergirl
 Superman
 Teen Titans
 Wonder Woman

has to be one of these i think


----------



## Bergelmir (May 15, 2012)

So I'm halfway through Mystery in Space. Any of you read this? Its a pretty fun anthology.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Lemire is on JLD, not JLI as far as I know
> 
> also I see Jurgens killed off rocket red after eviscerating his personality, confirming that JLI was the worst book of the entire relaunch including liefeld books



My bad, read as JLD not JLI.

But yeah, JLI was just dumb right out the gate. Axing all of Booster's development from 52 and his series and getting rid of his awesome timecop status quo.

Screw JLI, I just want Booster and Son: Time Cops.

And I kinda hope they cancel Teen Titans, but I know they wont. Honestly they should just make a Young Justice comic and copy off the show as much as possible.


----------



## gabzilla (May 15, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I received a letter from DC.  My Birds of Prey subscription has been canceled.  I will receive two more issues and then my subscription will default to Batgirl.





Pick Inc instead.

Or anything, really.


----------



## Cromer (May 15, 2012)

Why'd you get cancelled? Is BoP ending already?


----------



## Rukia (May 15, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Why'd you get cancelled? Is BoP ending already?


No.  But DC is no longer allowing people to subscribe to it.  Same deal with Justice League Dark... so I will probably be getting another letter.


----------



## Petes12 (May 15, 2012)

enjoy your catwoman


----------



## Cromer (May 15, 2012)

The fuck? Why the hell would that make any business sense? Are the sales crap or something? If demand is too high, print more! Or- damn, I can't even get my head around it.

And I never got any letter regarding my JLD sub.


----------



## Rukia (May 15, 2012)

They aren't selling it anymore.  I think we are going to be out of luck pretty soon.


----------



## Parallax (May 15, 2012)

Get Batman Inc instead


----------



## Cromer (May 15, 2012)

Already getting that. And Dial H. And Earth-2. 



But mah JLD!!!!


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (May 15, 2012)

wait is JLD getting axed?


----------



## gabzilla (May 15, 2012)

Rukia said:


> No.  But DC is no longer allowing people to subscribe to it.  Same deal with Justice League Dark... so I will probably be getting another letter.



That doesn't make sense.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 15, 2012)

Rukia,

Are you sure its not something involving the relationship between DC/Diamond/Your local shop?

Seems odd that they would cancel all subscriptions before announcing it's been cancelled.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 15, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> wait is JLD getting axed?



No only JLI...I don't know what the deal with Dark is but I suspect it has something to do with Diamond instead of DC cancelling it


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 15, 2012)

So I finally caught up with almost all of the current comics with the exception of the horrible ones I was warned about. 

I felt they could have done little more with  Aquaman.


----------



## Vault (May 15, 2012)

Switch to Batman Inc. No brainer there


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 15, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> So I finally caught up with almost all of the current comics with the exception of the horrible ones I was warned about.
> 
> I felt they could have done little more with  Aquaman.



Agreed. It's not bad, but Johns has got a long way to go before it stacks up with Peter David's work with the character.

Reis is crushing it though, so I'll keep buying as long as he's on the title.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Agreed. It's not bad, but Johns has got a long way to go before it stacks up with Peter David's work with the character.
> 
> Reis is crushing it though, so I'll keep buying as long as he's on the title.



It be pretty hard to measure to up David's run in the first place, just takng into account how much David did for the mythos in general plus the world building he did with Time and Tide and the Atlantis Chronicles


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Agreed. It's not bad, but Johns has got a long way to go before it stacks up with Peter David's work with the character.
> 
> Reis is crushing it though, so I'll keep buying as long as he's on the title.



David run was pretty sweet which kinda made me into an Aquaman fan. 
I have to admit the new Supes comics kinda made me like Supes a lot more.


----------



## Vault (May 15, 2012)

Which new Superman comic?  I remember the main Superman title not starting promisingly, it was so bad i have only read like 2 issues.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 15, 2012)

Vault said:


> Which new Superman comic?  I remember the main Superman title not starting promisingly, it was so bad i have only read like 2 issues.



It's still not that great to be honest. Action Comics continues to be the superior Supes comic

though the recent issues of Superman does make me wonder if Helspont was this much a blowhard in Wildstorm as he's portrayed here


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 15, 2012)

Vault said:


> Which new Superman comic?  I remember the main Superman title not starting promisingly, it was so bad i have only read like 2 issues.



Action Comics.


----------



## Vault (May 15, 2012)

I thought you meant Superman, which was surprising because when i stopped reading it was in a mess. Action Comics on the other hand is very good indeed. What are your thoughts on Super-girl and Super-boy?


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 15, 2012)

Vault said:


> I thought you meant Superman, which was surprising because when i stopped reading it was in a mess. Action Comics on the other hand is very good indeed. What are your thoughts on Super-girl and Super-boy?



I really like the action pace of Super girl and how they show casing her powers (ignoring the slight inconsistency with it),  her new outfit , and believe they did Kara right especially how she was introduced . 

Superboy , I like the personality shift he has taken now. Really got me interesting on this new take on him.

Edit: After reading Animal man DC animation needs to do something with him ASAP. 
 DC comics need to replace Dark Knight (I think this is the horrible Batcomic cant remember) with a Question series.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 15, 2012)

Meh, I'd go one step further and not only cancel dark knight (replace with a non batman book) but also make Detective Comics change up it's protagonist with each arc. There are plenty of detectives in the DCU. Question, Red Robin, Elongated Man, Detective Chimp, Crimson Avengers, Slam Bradley, or even just cops like Renee Montoya (maybe an arc with the question for old time's sake?), Bullock, or Driver.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Meh, I'd go one step further and not only cancel dark knight (replace with a non batman book) and make Detective Comics change up it's protagonist with each arc. There are plenty of detectives in the DCU. Question, Red Robin, Elongated Man, Detective Chimp, Crimson Avengers, Slam Bradley, or even just cops like Renee Montoya (maybe an arc with the question for old time's sake?), Bullock, or Driver.



I agree...on both points I'd actually replace Dark Knight with either a New Gods book...or something non super oriented...like a Daily Planet book. If Gotham Central worked for cops...there's no reason a book for Reporters and journalists can't work just the same

I mean DC really needs to remember that Detective Comics while it became a Bat book...it doesn't have to be about just The Batman


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 15, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> I agree...on both points I'd actually replace Dark Knight with either a New Gods book...or something non super oriented...like a Daily Planet book. If Gotham Central worked for cops...there's no reason a book for Reporters and journalists can't work just the same



A daily planet book with Clark Kent as a supporting character would be great. I'd actually just like to see Metropolis get some type of personality. 



> I mean DC really needs to remember that Detective Comics while it became a Bat book...it doesn't have to be about just The Batman



Pretty much yeah. I'd be totally fine with Batman being the only book with Batman as it's main protagonist. They'd need to get a great writer though for the first non batman arc though. Does DC still have any great mystery writers? I can see them putting someone like Nicieza on it, it doing mediocre (cuz it's nicieza) , then going back to batman with another not so good writer.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (May 15, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> No only JLI...I don't know what the deal with Dark is but I suspect it has something to do with Diamond instead of DC cancelling it



oh thank god you gave the best news today


----------



## Petes12 (May 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Meh, I'd go one step further and not only cancel dark knight (replace with a non batman book) but also make Detective Comics change up it's protagonist with each arc. There are plenty of detectives in the DCU. Question, Red Robin, Elongated Man, Detective Chimp, Crimson Avengers, Slam Bradley, or even just cops like Renee Montoya (maybe an arc with the question for old time's sake?), Bullock, or Driver.



none of them sell though...


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 16, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> none of them sell though...


Dont make me take you out back Pete ! They will sell !


----------



## Platinum (May 16, 2012)

Just like Men of War did .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 16, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> none of them sell though...



Which of them have had a chance to "not sell" in the past 10-15 years? I dunno I still think it's worth a try. 

And DC's surprisingly willing to give characters a chance these days. Although I admit it's more likely that they would make a new book instead of removing batman from detective comics.


----------



## Glued (May 16, 2012)

I'm liking the look of Aquaman's new crew in Aquaman #8.

I liked how Kahina said that Aquaman is destined to be happy, someday.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 16, 2012)

So one thought before I hit the hay: Anyone surprised at how good the Red Hood book is? Once you get past the super shit first issue, and it gets into the Untitled overplot, things pick up.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 16, 2012)

It is pretty good, although the untitled plot is a little too supernatural for me. I'll say it's good enough that I'm baffled at how terribly written Teen Titans is when Red Hood is decent at worst.

But yeah, the first issue certainly didn't make a good first impression.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 16, 2012)

So looking at Bleeding Cool the issue with the subscriptions being cut off isn't just for JLI and JLD...it's also for Swamp Thing and Aquaman...so my thought that it had something to do with Diamond doesn't seem to be accurate now.



Bergelmir said:


> So one thought before I hit the hay: Anyone surprised at how good the Red Hood book is? Once you get past the super shit first issue, and it gets into the Untitled overplot, things pick up.



It's actually become a pretty fun book in my opinion. also the cover for the issue in august looks fucking awesome


----------



## Platinum (May 16, 2012)

I agree it's a fun book, people vastly overreacted to that first issue. I  like that we had at least one talon that rebelled against the court of owls.

Fucking lol at Barbara acting like she can take Todd.


----------



## Zen-aku (May 16, 2012)

I Told yall Outlaws was an amazing book 



Platinum said:


> Fucking lol at Barbara acting like she can take Todd.


 i too laughed, especially when he called her barbie.


----------



## Platinum (May 16, 2012)

Pick your battles Babs.


----------



## Petes12 (May 16, 2012)

See I would've bet on barbara because I pretty much see Todd as the shittest, least skilled, least smart robin

Course he's got guns so more realistically I'd bet on him over any other bat character, but that's not how comics work


----------



## Platinum (May 16, 2012)

Hasn't he beaten the shit out of Tim and Damian before?

Either way Barbara has been hilariously incompetent in her book, I wouldn't bet on her in any battle.


----------



## Zen-aku (May 16, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> See I would've bet on barbara because I pretty much see Todd as the shittest, least skilled, least smart robin


 Except he isn't, especially now in this new universe



Platinum said:


> Hasn't he beaten the shit out of Tim and Damian before?


 he Has.



> Either way Barbara has been hilariously incompetent in her book, I wouldn't bet on her in any battle.


this as well.


----------



## Petes12 (May 16, 2012)

From what I recall, he could barely take tim, and he uses guns.


----------



## Petes12 (May 16, 2012)

Anyway, dunno if anyone else is still reading wonder woman but I am, and I'm still liking it a lot.

Red Hood is ok. The art is cool. Lobdell's 'make it up as i go along' writing isn't the best though.

edit: 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Which of them have had a chance to "not sell" in the past 10-15 years? I dunno I still think it's worth a try.
> 
> And DC's surprisingly willing to give characters a chance these days. Although I admit it's more likely that they would make a new book instead of removing batman from detective comics.



Look at how well they sell right now though, and they're totally shit books right? But they're huge sellers for no reason other than they star batman and have gritty art or whatever. So I don't think DC's gonna change strategies any time soon.


----------



## Platinum (May 16, 2012)

I vaguely remember him absolutely punking Tim in the battle for the cowl event and Dick barely being able to beat him.


----------



## Petes12 (May 16, 2012)

Well yeah. For once he actually managed to shoot someone. That kinda hurts. But he hadn't fared so well in the past in teen titans or robin or whatever.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 16, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> It is pretty good, although the untitled plot is a little too supernatural for me. I'll say it's good enough that I'm baffled at how terribly written Teen Titans is when Red Hood is decent at worst.
> 
> But yeah, the first issue certainly didn't make a good first impression.



The art in Teen Titans certainly doesn't help either. Thats just terrible all round.

I actually like the supernatural element in Red Hood. Its really just a bunch of immortals and magic blades. Which is not that far out for a Batbook.



Zen-aku said:


> I Told yall Outlaws was an amazing book


And you were right. I just overreacted to the first issue. Mostly to Starfire.


----------



## Zen-aku (May 16, 2012)

I can't wait for the next arc Outlaws IN SPACE!!!

and Speaking of Space, Green Lantern Corp.s Continues to be every thing I want from A GL book


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 16, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> The art in Teen Titans certainly doesn't help either. Thats just terrible all round.
> 
> I actually like the supernatural element in Red Hood. Its really just a bunch of immortals and magic blades. Which is not that far out for a Batbook.



Admittedly it might do better if I read it in trade. Reading it month to month may have messed it up for me.

But yeah Teen Titans is just WAY WAY WAY too exposition heavy. Like holy shit how can an editor let that hit the shelves.

But yeah most recent issue of Red Hood was good. I just can't get enough of Jason and Roy violently broing around the DCU, with Starfire along for the lulz and the aforementioned violence.

THe only way it could have been better is if after Jason's DD comment, Roy was revealed to be drunk. 

Oh and I wish the DC boards still existed, just so I could see all the rage on the batgirl boards about Jason's "Better bats" line.

The sad thing is that I think Jason would have an easier time with Batgirl than he would with Oracle.

EDIT:

Oh and Nightwing was also awesome. Great takedown of the talon, and I love that Higgins and Barrows are getting better with making Dick acrobatic.


----------



## Platinum (May 16, 2012)

Favorite Talon design so far?

I think mine might be the talon in catwoman.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 17, 2012)

Man, I love that Azzarello is making the Olympians so creepy. I just finished the new Wonder Woman, and it just struck me that Hades is so gungho to bang his _niece_.

Good ol' Greeks. 



Platinum said:


> Favorite Talon design so far?
> 
> I think mine might be the talon in catwoman.



I actually like Capullo's Talon design. The flowy cloth goes well with the amount of black used. And I am partial to the ninja look.


----------



## Vault (May 17, 2012)

Th e talon at the end of I think detective comics 9 with the cape which look like feathers is definitely my favourite.


----------



## sanx021 (May 17, 2012)

the talon that was chasing Alfred's father in Batman #9 and Dick Grayson's great grand father.

Nightwing #9 was awesome. I was hoping Dick would get a healing factor like his great grand dad .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 17, 2012)

Really? I wouldn't be a fan of that, but the way he took down the talon was awesome, how he came up with a plan on the spot (while bleeding profusely from multiple knife wounds).

And I liked how Dick was basically just "I'm Dick Grayson, I'm awesome, destiny blows, deal with it."


----------



## Vault (May 17, 2012)

He fought 2 Talons and won?


----------



## sanx021 (May 17, 2012)

I did like the origin of his surname 

of course he won he is the prince of gotham


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (May 17, 2012)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 17, 2012)

Damn, read the preview for Winnick's dark knight, and it was almost good. Focusing on the talon that Dick was going to replace? Don't think that contradicts anything in Snyder's. But having Batman stop a Talon from murdering someone? Like he wouldn't remember that.


----------



## Petes12 (May 17, 2012)

i thought it was going to be about red robin


----------



## Platinum (May 17, 2012)

Liefeld was here.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 18, 2012)

I like how lazy Liefeld is for that cover. He can't even be bothered to draw Deathstroke's funky broadsword.


----------



## Platinum (May 18, 2012)

Liefeld gonna ruin deathstroke and lobo at the same time.


----------



## Zen-aku (May 18, 2012)

If they were to give Lobo his own book who should write it?


----------



## Bergelmir (May 18, 2012)

The way Paul Cornell writes Vandal Savage makes me think he would have a good handle on Lobo.

Other than that.... who wrote the Lobo bits back in 52? That person would probably deliver a fun Lobo book.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 18, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i thought it was going to be about red robin



Yeah, but the talon he'll be dealing with is the one immediately before Dick, so the most recent one?

I just don't like that Batman stopped a talon way back when. You'd think he'd remember.

EDIT: So DC has put a few "creator portraits" up. You know, to put a face to the names of the creators.

So from now on, when you think "Scott Snyder", you'll think:



Yea that's about right


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2012)

Ever have a conversation with someone who will defend his art to death and says all art is just subjective so if you say it's bad its just cus you like to bully people?

I have


----------



## Bergelmir (May 18, 2012)

Your mistake is engaging a Liefeldian. I just shut down the conversation and ignore the person once they start.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (May 18, 2012)

anyone else amused at blue beetle an bleez interactions


----------



## Id (May 18, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> If they were to give Lobo his own book who should write it?



Keith Giffen, for an obvious fo sho.

Alternatively Paul Jenkins did an excellent job on Spawn the Undead. I am sure he can figure out Lobo, and drive a good plot. 

Or Brian Holguin.


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 18, 2012)

The Main man only deserves the best .


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 18, 2012)

The fuck did they do for Phantom Stranger and Question's new origins?

Son of a bloody gun.


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2012)

I was wondering when CBG was going to bring that up.


----------



## Glued (May 18, 2012)

Lobo and Liefeld, the spirit of the 90s continues.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 18, 2012)

Comic Book Guy said:


> The fuck did they do for Phantom Stranger and Question's new origins?
> 
> Son of a bloody gun.



Yeah, I was actually reading gotham central and 52 again when I heard about that. Phantom Stranger I at least kinda sorta get why they would think that could work (still terrible though), but Question was just ridiculous. He's about as spiritual/magical as Batman.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 18, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Your mistake is engaging a Liefeldian. I just shut down the conversation and ignore the person once they start.



I've never met a "Liefeldian".

The Internet loves bashing Rob so much I figured they'd just go their own way.

Right now they must be searching for pre-orders of the Liefeld X-Factor Omnibus some industry guy confirmed is coming.


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2012)

hes magical now!


----------



## Bergelmir (May 18, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> *I've never met a "Liefeldian".*
> 
> The Internet loves bashing Rob so much I figured they'd just go their own way.
> 
> Right now they must be searching for pre-orders of the Liefeld X-Factor Omnibus some industry guy confirmed is coming.



I knew some guys a few years ago, back in college, who vigorously defended Liefeld's art. They managed to weave him into any conversation to do with comics. They once did it during a discussion of Mignola and Hellboy. I mean, damn. Thats dedication.


----------



## Platinum (May 19, 2012)

You could say it was a _questionable_ decision .


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 19, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I knew some guys a few years ago, back in college, who vigorously defended Liefeld's art. They managed to weave him into any conversation to do with comics. They once did it during a discussion of Mignola and Hellboy. I mean, damn. Thats dedication.



If anything, Mignola could be called a later day gothic Kirby.

Rob's crowd is... different.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 19, 2012)

Platinum said:


> You could say it was a _questionable_ decision .


----------



## Powerful Lord (May 19, 2012)

He does have an entire forum dedicated to himself, so there are allways those that like him and his art.


----------



## Taleran (May 19, 2012)

Ascetically the art does nothing for me. However I do admire the Image Founders simultaneous realization that a) they were driving sales, b) they could get more if they went off to do their own thing, c) they did it. That act still has a lot of power today that for me overshadows any problems I have with the comics, also a lot of excess can be really fun sometimes.

So I have been listening to people describe Action Comics #9 to me and the 'message' of the comic sounds incredibly hollow. I don't think you can make that comic honestly and then say the things about the creators of the work that he does at the same time because I don't buy anymore that he is subverting the inside of DC, he is entrenched there.


----------



## Petes12 (May 19, 2012)

Why not just read it and make a judgment then. I didn't really read it as morrison being some amazing dc rebel, I just thought it was funny.


----------



## Rukia (May 19, 2012)

FUCK!  Just like I predicted.



			
				DC Comics said:
			
		

> Dear JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK Subscriber,
> 
> This is to notify you that the series JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK will cease to be offered as a subscription title after issue #10.  Issue #10 will be delivered to you as scheduled in July.  To keep reading JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK beyond the end of your subscription, please visit your local comic shop or shop online at ReadDCcomics.com.
> 
> ...


I have now lost Justice League Dark and Birds of Prey.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 19, 2012)

Rukia said:


> FUCK!  Just like I predicted.
> 
> I have now lost Justice League Dark and Birds of Prey.



Yeah same thing is happening with Swamp Thing and Aquaman subscribers...also DC must hate the people who read that book, to drop The Dark Knight on them is a horrible punishment


----------



## Narutossss (May 19, 2012)

> Your remaining issues will be automatically transferred to our exciting *BATMAN: DARK KNIGHT* series starting with issue #11.


:rofl:rofl:rofl phone those mother fuckers up and tell them to stick that shit ass book up their dry ass holes. I wouldn't even read batman the dark knight for free.


----------



## Mael (May 19, 2012)

Haven't been here in a while.  Got too Flash-happy and had to hiatus.

Exciting new Batman comic?  Yay...just what we need...another Batman comic.


----------



## Platinum (May 19, 2012)

They would have to pay me to read that sack of shit.


----------



## Narutossss (May 19, 2012)

quite sad david finch is making serious money off that book, and selling the pages at insane numbers. If DC are going to continue the trend of making artist write their own books at least get the artist that know how to write.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 19, 2012)

Rukia said:


> FUCK!  Just like I predicted.
> 
> I have now lost Justice League Dark and Birds of Prey.



Hold on, these books that are losing their subscriptions. Are they being canceled? Or just no longer being mailed?


----------



## Platinum (May 19, 2012)

No longer being mailed.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 19, 2012)

Great. I was worried there for a second.

EDIT: On a different note, I'm really liking the Vandal Savage issue of DC Presents. He's much more Hannibal Lector than the barbarian we see in Demon Knights.


----------



## Huey Freeman (May 20, 2012)

Yep, Vandal is truly one of the best villains there is , hope we see him in a live action movie.


----------



## Narutossss (May 20, 2012)

hmm vandal is in the new 52?, which book?


----------



## Platinum (May 20, 2012)

Demon Knights and the new DC Universe presents issue.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 20, 2012)

So Sivana can see magic now. Thats actually pretty neat. I guess his mad science is going to be rooted in manipulating magic from now on.


----------



## Slice (May 20, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> EDIT: On a different note, I'm really liking the *Vandal Savage* issue of DC Presents. He's much *more Hannibal Lector* than the barbarian we see in Demon Knights.



This is relevant to my interest. I will check this out.


----------



## Rukia (May 20, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> :rofl:rofl:rofl phone those mother fuckers up and tell them to stick that shit ass book up their dry ass holes. I wouldn't even read batman the dark knight for free.


I'm going to call them and tell them to apply my free issues to extend my subscriptions to Wonder Woman, Batman, and Action.


----------



## Parallax (May 20, 2012)

that's a smart choice


----------



## Spica (May 20, 2012)

"Prominent" can mean so much and they'll probably just do a C- or D-list character.

I'm hoping for Tim or Kon although Batman is the one who needs to come out. 

Knowing DC, it won't be one of the Justice League. Unless it's a woman. And she's coming out as a lesbian to be "sexually liberated" and titillate the core readers.


----------



## Doom85 (May 20, 2012)

Spica said:


> I'm hoping for Tim or Kon although Batman is the one who needs to come out.



Well, the article seems to suggest it's a character that's hasn't appeared yet in the new continuity, so unlikely. Although I would hope DC doesn't just pick a character specifically to appease the yaoi fangirls, and I'm not being hypocritical as I find pandering to male fans just as annoying.


----------



## Rukia (May 20, 2012)

A lesbian is far more likely.


----------



## Petes12 (May 20, 2012)

wonder woman maybe?


----------



## Agent (May 20, 2012)

Hmm, Dark Knight might be worth checking out once Gregg Hurwitz takes over.


----------



## Stringer (May 21, 2012)

Up to date I'm enjoying Justice League, Birds of Prey and Flash the most. The art is quite good. They need to get a better writer for Superman's revamp, was one of the title I looked forward to the most but it has been a let down so far.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

Spica said:


> "Prominent" can mean so much and they'll probably just do a C- or D-list character.
> 
> I'm hoping for Tim or Kon although Batman is the one who needs to come out.
> 
> Knowing DC, it won't be one of the Justice League. Unless it's a woman. And she's coming out as a lesbian to be "sexually liberated" and titillate the core readers.



This reeks of forced placement worse than the episode writing of Glee, and Glee is pure shit, just to note.


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2012)

reading the bleeding cool article it sounds like it'll be a character who hasn't been reintroduced in the new 52 yet


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> reading the bleeding cool article it sounds like it'll be a character who hasn't been reintroduced in the new 52 yet



I read some MSN article...I'll take your word for it.  Thank God.


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2012)

It's kinda ambiguous but that's how I read it. 

One of the earth 2 characters seems likely too, Robinson tries to keep his casts diverse


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> It's kinda ambiguous but that's how I read it.
> 
> One of the earth 2 characters seems likely too, Robinson tries to keep his casts diverse



MSN actually linked from the site you mentioned.

Again, it's not at all the fact it's LGBT, but just how it's presented or who it pertains to.  Hopefully it won't look forced just to please a crowd.  God forbid it ends up as tacky and shallow as something like Glee.

Steph for example isn't a lesbian despite fandom wishes and will likely never be one.  Wally West never had other thoughts about Pied Piper especially while Linda was married to him.  It's fine to create it, but just make it written well please and not lolrandom from characters already established.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2012)

Yeah, like there's legions of fangirls who want Tim and Kon to ride off into the sunset 4evurrrr, but outside of Geoff's weird TT there's nothing really to support that.

Honestly, if any robin were to be "revealed" to be gay I think Jason would be the only one who could work.


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

DC doesn't have the balls to make Tim gay.

I can see Steph as bisexual.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> DC doesn't have the balls to make Tim gay.
> 
> I can see Steph as bisexual.



They don't have the balls to make a Robin gay.

But according to DC and their fail, Steph was never a robin. So....hope for biawesome steph!?


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> They don't have the balls to make a Robin gay.
> 
> But according to DC and their fail, Steph was never a robin. So....hope for biawesome steph!?



A boy Robin.

Can't be any of the bat boys, since they have all been introduced in the new universe. They already have Kate, so they won't make any of the bat ladies a lesbian if not Cass would get my vote.

I already consider Steph bi 

My guess is that the character will be from Earth 2 (Hawkgirl maybe?) and nobody will care about it.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 21, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> They don't have the balls to make a Robin gay.
> 
> *But according to DC and their fail, Steph was never a robin.* So....hope for biawesome steph!?



You know, thinking about it, doesn't this make Steph even more awesome. Because it now means that outside of initial training from her... initial trainer person(her father, I think?), she pretty much trained herself to be a super capabale crimefighter.

Well, unless DC shits on us and make her crap.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> You know, thinking about it, doesn't this make Steph even more awesome. Because it now means that outside of initial training from her... initial trainer person(her father, I think?), she pretty much trained herself to be a super capabale crimefighter.
> 
> Well, unless DC shits on us and make her crap.



Pretty much. I honestly really like that her training is just from a hodge podge of different people that she was just around.

Like she wasn't really "taught" anything, but just picked up stuff hanging around with Cass/Babs/Tim/Dinah (briefly in BoP).

And her "training" with Cass is still one of my all time favorite panels ever. That and when they're comparing crap fathers, "I can't beat you at anything!"


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> You know, thinking about it, doesn't this make Steph even more awesome. Because it now means that outside of initial training from her... initial trainer person(her father, I think?), she pretty much trained herself to be a super capabale crimefighter.
> 
> Well, unless DC shits on us and make her crap.



She'll be Spoiler, and will make Misfit look competent in comparison.

Can't have another female looking better than Babs, can we?


----------



## Slice (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> I can see Steph as bisexual.



"can" or "want to" 


It will at best be a b-list character but i still think its a bad idea. Make a new character or take a version from another earth. Changing a characters sexual preference after x years of existence just because you can is stupid.


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2012)

Eh if it's a character they're rebooting anyway then I don't really think its a big deal


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Eh if it's a character they're rebooting anyway then I don't really think its a big deal



Eh, it'd have to be really well done or it will just come off as change for changes sake, which is never good.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

Can't see Spoiler as bi until evidence is shown.  The rest is just fandom or the wrath of tumblr, or someone watching too much Glee.  If Korra is already getting slaughtered with speculation, God help us all with this little ditty. 

Robin?  Nah.  I think maybe if Red Hood/Todd got gay for his frat buddy in Outlaws then MAYBE I could consider Stephanie and Cassandra.  Frankly I don't see the need to rush right into it and hopefully we won't see it in one of those characters because then, and most likely, the writing into it will be God awful.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 21, 2012)

Just sawa these of comicbookresources. Gotta love Steph and Damian.






gabzilla said:


> She'll be Spoiler, and will make Misfit look competent in comparison.
> 
> *Can't have another female looking better than Babs, can we?*



From what I've seen of the Batgirl book, thats not that hard.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

Steph and Damian make for good ally relations.

Outside of that...lol age difference.


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Slice said:


> "can" or "want to"
> 
> 
> It will at best be a b-list character but i still think its a bad idea. Make a new character or take a version from another earth. Changing a characters sexual preference after x years of existence just because you can is stupid.



Can. 

I don't see what's the problem as long as it's done well.




Mael said:


> Can't see Spoiler as bi until evidence is shown.  The rest is just fandom or the wrath of tumblr, or someone watching too much Glee.  If Korra is already getting slaughtered with speculation, God help us all with this little ditty.
> 
> Robin?  Nah.  I think maybe if Red Hood/Todd got gay for his frat buddy in Outlaws then MAYBE I could consider Stephanie and Cassandra.  Frankly I don't see the need to rush right into it and hopefully we won't see it in one of those characters because then, and most likely, the writing into it will be God awful.



Right, we disagree with your point because we are tumblr fangirls. 



Bergelmir said:


> Just sawa these of comicbookresources. Gotta love Steph and Damian.



Flawless team. 



Bergelmir said:


> From what I've seen of the Batgirl book, thats not that hard.



That's why I doubt Steph will be as competent as she was pre reboot. 

They can't make Cass incompetent because... it's Cass. So they'll probably ship her to China forever so she can't overshadow dear Babs. And Batwoman is usually kept in her book, so... still hope Kate kicks her butt in Batgirl 12.

If we are lucky, Steph will be as competent as she was in her series. If we are not lucky, she'll be Misfit level.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Right, we disagree with your point because we are tumblr fangirls.



Don't hate the player, hate the game.  tumblr is awful with all this.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> That's why I doubt Steph will be as competent as she was pre reboot.
> 
> They can't make Cass incompetent because... it's Cass. So they'll probably ship her to China forever so she can't overshadow dear Babs. And Batwoman is usually kept in her book, so... still hope Kate kicks her butt in Batgirl 12.
> 
> If we are lucky, Steph will be as competent as she was in her series. If we are not lucky, she'll be Misfit level.


Well, all I can hope for is that she's well portrayed.

Gah. I'm really missing Steph now.


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Mael said:


> Don't hate the player, hate the game.  tumblr is awful with all this.



boo hoo welcome to fandom



Bergelmir said:


> Well, all I can hope for is that she's well portrayed.
> 
> Gah. I'm really missing Steph now.



I'm not gonna bet on it.

I miss her too


----------



## Narutossss (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Can.
> 
> I don't see what's the problem as long as it's done well.
> 
> ...



so much hate on batgirl...


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so much hate on batgirl...



**


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> boo hoo welcome to fandom



Yeah and it sucks.  It's why you have to read shit on your own and not discuss online nearly as much as desired lest shit spew through the ISP.  It's why I thank God every day The Flash doesn't get molested by the Internet the way the Batgirls do.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 21, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so much hate on batgirl...



I can't speak for others, but my hate is only for Gail Simone's Batgirl. Her characterization is just terrible.


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Mael said:


> Yeah and it sucks.  It's why you have to read shit on your own and not discuss online nearly as much as desired lest shit spew through the ISP.  It's why I thank God every day The Flash doesn't get molested by the Internet the way the Batgirls do.



Your life is so hard.

Seriously, tumblr didn't create slash. Are you new or something?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2012)

It wouldn't be as bad (well, it probably would) if Batgirl wasn't so utterly mediocre.

Gotta say though, I wish Tim was in limbo with Cass and Steph as opposed to being chained to the sinking ship that is the Teen Titans.

But I have no sympathy for people defending the current batgirl series. Babs fans whined and whined and whined about the "original" batgirl, and now they have it (at the expense of Cass and Steph), and it's terrible.

I can completely understand Cass and Steph fans raging on the current batgirl series, because you have 2 characters who had successful/good series being shafted just because they aren't the "originals".

Any instance of "end good series in order to release bad series" should be met with scorn.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I can't speak for others, but my hate is only for Gail Simone's Batgirl. Her characterization is just terrible.



Writing comes and goes.  Babs or whomever will likely have some better moment down the road.  With so many characters you can't win them all.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 21, 2012)

Mael said:


> Writing comes and goes.  Babs or whomever will likely have some better moment down the road.  With so many characters you can't win them all.



Well, yeah. That's why I specified Simone's Batgirl. Once she's off the book, I'll check the book out again.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Your life is so hard.
> 
> Seriously, tumblr didn't create slash. Are you new or something?



*yawns*

tumblr only made it more obnoxious.  It's what helped nearly prompt Steph and Damian to foster a stat rape fanfictional romance that grew with popularity.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> It wouldn't be as bad (well, it probably would) if Batgirl wasn't so utterly mediocre.
> 
> Gotta say though, I wish Tim was in limbo with Cass and Steph as opposed to being chained to the sinking ship that is the Teen Titans.



Tim next to Dick was one of the better Robins of the four.  It is really a tragedy.


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> It wouldn't be as bad (well, it probably would) if Batgirl wasn't so utterly mediocre.
> 
> Gotta say though, I wish Tim was in limbo with Cass and Steph as opposed to being chained to the sinking ship that is the Teen Titans.
> 
> ...



Teen Titans is so terrible. I'm so happy Raven is still in limbo.

What's funny about the "original" thing is that Babs doesn't act like her iconic self _at all_.
The only thing she has in common with her most famous incarnations (60s Batman, early comics, BtaS) are the looks and the name.




Mael said:


> *yawns*
> 
> tumblr only made it more obnoxious.  It's what helped nearly prompt Steph and Damian to foster a stat rape fanfictional romance that grew with popularity.



You critisizing people for being obnoxious is delightfully ironic. You think you are so above it all, it's hilarious.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> You critisizing people for being obnoxious is delightfully ironic. You think you are so above it all, it's hilarious.



I'll have to go digging around the next time I do such things for such genres or when I spammed a fanbase ad nauseum that wasn't let's say a year ago or so.  I never admitted to being above *all* of it, but when I see a hopeful comparison for Steph with Glee's Brittany, I know I'm damn well above that.  And with this new revelation from DC, I'll batten down the hatches from fandom advertisements for the same shoddy speculations and comparisons and hope we'll actually see someone new or well-written instead of a catering to fanbase desires.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Teen Titans is so terrible. I'm so happy Raven is still in limbo.



Yeah... 



> What's funny about the "original" thing is that Babs doesn't act like her iconic self _at all_.
> The only thing she has in comming with her most famous incarnations (60s Batman, early comics, BtaS) is the looks and the name.



Pretty much yeah.



Mael said:


> Tim next to Dick was one of the better Robins of the four.  It is really a tragedy.



I could go on about Tim for pages, but I'll keep it short.

Tim is not a titans character. He is a bat character with Super/Wonder/Flash friends. For the most part in team stuff he's just along for the ride, and only leads out of necessity. But because the Titans "need" a robin, he was put on Johns Teen Titans and written as batman lite. And because Johns is gospel, everyone just took that as his character. Chris Yost was the only one who ever tried to bring Tim back to where he should be as a character.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

> I could go on about Tim for pages, but I'll keep it short.
> 
> Tim is not a titans character. He is a bat character with Super/Wonder/Flash friends. For the most part in team stuff he's just along for the ride, and only leads out of necessity. But because the Titans "need" a robin, he was put on Johns Teen Titans and written as batman lite. And because Johns is gospel, everyone just took that as his character. Chris Yost was the only one who ever tried to bring Tim back to where he should be as a character.



I was about to say...Cartoon Network would like a word with you.

Granted Young Justice does nothing but confuse me with continuity since I'm so grounded with JLU, but the TT cartoon...yeah...even if it had bright moments couldn't have me fully enjoy Tim being Tim given the surroundings.

That and Beast Boy's sad obsessions with...sigh...mopeds.


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2012)

he always had a bit of batman lite in him, somewhere between batman and dick in terms of personality.


----------



## Slice (May 21, 2012)

They all three have one of Bruces traits taken to the next level.
Dick is his physical skill and acrobatics, Jason the dark and intimidating 'act first ask questions later' guy and Tim is the detective.
Unfortunately more often then not this is forgotten and people write Robin with the mask on way too similar.


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Mael said:


> I'll have to go digging around the next time I do such things for such genres or when I spammed a fanbase ad nauseum that wasn't let's say a year ago or so.  I never admitted to being above *all* of it, but when I see a hopeful comparison for Steph with Glee's Brittany, I know I'm damn well above that.  And with this new revelation from DC, I'll batten down the hatches from fandom advertisements for the same shoddy speculations and comparisons and hope we'll actually see someone new or well-written instead of a catering to fanbase desires.



blah blah blah tell it to somebody that cares

and throwing the word "rape" around. Transformation into dudebro complete! Congratulations!



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yeah...
> 
> Pretty much yeah.



Just look at what they did to poor Artemis.

So yeah, limbo is better.



Slice said:


> They all three have one of Bruces traits taken to the next level.
> Dick is his physical skill and acrobatics, Jason the dark and intimidating 'act first ask questions later' guy and Tim is the detective.
> Unfortunately more often then not this is forgotten and people write Robin with the mask on way too similar.



What about Damian?


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> blah blah blah tell it to somebody that cares
> 
> and throwing the word "rape" around. Transformation into dudebro complete! Congratulations!



You apparently do. 

Stat rape is srs bzns, Gabz.

And thanks Gabz for the honorific.  I mean at least I can thank people for such honors.


----------



## Slice (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> What about Damian?



Bruces playful and carefree personality. One so pure that only a child like Damian could mirror it. What else could it be?


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Mael said:


> You apparently do.
> 
> Stat rape is srs bzns, Gabz.
> 
> And thanks Gabz for the honorific.  I mean at least I can thank people for such honors.



Rape is serious for the people that have suffered it, yes. Shocking, I know.

ANd this is getting out of topic. I'm done with you.



Slice said:


> Bruces playful and carefree personality. One so pure that only a child like Damian could mirror it. What else could it be?



I thought it was about the fucked up kid he's inside, but that works too.


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2012)

Don't see steph as bi at all tbh. There's nothing wrong with fans doing their slashfic or tumblr photoshops of characters kissing, but one should really keep in mind the difference between canon and headcanon 

Also I'm pretty sure if they made steph/cass a bi/gay thing that makes like every single major female character at DC, other than supergirl, at least implied LGBT


----------



## Slice (May 21, 2012)

The analogy really only works if you exclude Steph and Damian but for the other three it works really well.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

So Wally West is on Dan Dildodio's desk and in consideration.

I'm nothing but apprehensive.



gabzilla said:


> Rape is serious for the people that have suffered it, yes. Shocking, I know.



Yes because my work as a Unit Victim Advocate since 2007 allows me to marginalize rape cases.  Please know the difference between the terms and how disliking Steph Brown and Damian Wayne together as romantically hinted when it's likely stat rape doesn't mean advocating or marginalizing and form of it.


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2012)

Damian's 10 so yes anything with him is kind of fucked up


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Then you should know better than to use the word to critisize a _fictional pairing_ ffs.

Done with you.



Slice said:


> The analogy really only works if you exclude Steph and Damian but for the other three it works really well.



You don't think Damian represents some part of Bruce?


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2012)

Damian is kidmillerbatman


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2012)

Mael said:


> I was about to say...Cartoon Network would like a word with you.
> 
> Granted Young Justice does nothing but confuse me with continuity since I'm so grounded with JLU, but the TT cartoon...yeah...even if it had bright moments couldn't have me fully enjoy Tim being Tim given the surroundings.
> 
> That and Beast Boy's sad obsessions with...sigh...mopeds.



Robin in Teen Titans was not Tim, it was an amalgamated Robin. Same with BTAS, Tim in name only.



Petes12 said:


> he always had a bit of batman lite in him, somewhere between batman and dick in terms of personality.



A bit, but when written correctly it's made apparent whenever he tries to be batman lite (or Nightwing lite) his awkwardness and inherent uncoolness show why he's not. For instance, mirror a Bat/Cat "You shouldn't get involved" convo with an early Tim/Steph convo of a similar nature. The minute Steph got in his face with a flirty comment his argument would devolve into "Well...I mean...you're...umm".

Lobdell is trying to bring back that part of the character, and make it clear that when he does play the bat lite card it's out of necessity, but that doesn't make up for everything else.



Slice said:


> They all three have one of Bruces traits taken to the next level.
> Dick is his physical skill and acrobatics, Jason the dark and intimidating 'act first ask questions later' guy and Tim is the detective.
> Unfortunately more often then not this is forgotten and people write Robin with the mask on way too similar.



Agreed, and the thing is there is no way to have Tim be a detective in Teen Titans. It's just not going to happen at all. 

And I think Damian represents bruce's drive. Not saying the others aren't driven, but Bruce just takes it to a whole different level, and I think Damian will share that same trait.


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

> Then you should know better than to use the word to critisize a fictional pairing ffs.
> 
> Done with you.



Not really, because the context is still the same, fictional or not.


----------



## Slice (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> You don't think Damian represents some part of Bruce?



I only haven't really decided which one it is. He isn't around long enough.

But the drive and determination could work. Like turning your entire body (and mind) into a weapon.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2012)

I think there's a distinction to be made between the Bruce that wants to hurt criminals and take vengeance (Jason) and the Bruce that puts everything, body and mind, into the mission, and puts that over everything else (Damian).


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Slice said:


> I only haven't really decided which one it is. He isn't around long enough.
> 
> But the drive and determination could work. Like turning your entire body (and mind) into a weapon.



That's what I thought


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> She'll be Spoiler, and will make Misfit look competent in comparison.
> 
> Can't have another female looking better than Babs, can we?



Misfit could actually be argued to be far more competent than Barbara is currently being portrayed as to be perfectly honest...



Narutossss said:


> so much hate on batgirl...



Kind of easy to dislike, especially when alot of people have been following her as Oracle for years...and does actually come across as kinda insulting when you had a character despite being crippled from the waist down that could still more than handle herself...only for her to get rebooted and have the character come across as being this incompetent rube



gabzilla said:


> Then you should know better than to use the word to critisize a _fictional pairing_ ffs.
> 
> Done with you.
> 
> ...



Damien to me represents what Bruce is afraid to become.


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Misfit could actually be argued to be far more competent than Barbara is currently being portrayed as to be perfectly honest...



Well, Misfit did destroy a city...



Emperor Joker said:


> Damien to me represents what Bruce is afraid to become.



Wouldn't that be Jason?


----------



## Glued (May 21, 2012)

How old is Steph?


----------



## Mael (May 21, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> How old is Steph?



Late teens, early twenties IIRC.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 21, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Well, Misfit did destroy a city...
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't that be Jason?



Can we really blame her for that though...I don't think any of the Birds were aware that thing was going to blow and take a chunk of Metropolis with it


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 21, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> How old is Steph?



Same age as Tim I think...might be slightly younger


----------



## gabzilla (May 21, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Can we really blame her for that though...I don't think any of the Birds were aware that thing was going to blow and take a chunk of Metropolis with it



You never push the red button.  Ever



Ben Grimm said:


> How old is Steph?



She was 18 before the reboot. Who knows how old she is now.



Emperor Joker said:


> Same age as Tim I think...might be slightly younger



She was one year older than Tim pre reboot.


----------



## Glued (May 21, 2012)

Hopefully this is retconned out of existence in a few years


----------



## tari101190 (May 21, 2012)

I'm wondering how DC is gonna handle death now.

Since it is rebooted, nobody had died or come back to life yet. I wonder if they'll ignore that gimmick and realize it isn't really effective. If they tease someone will die, they should die permanently.

I was thinking about this because I am wondering when Doomsday will reappear. And if he fights Superman, will the result be the same.


----------



## Glued (May 21, 2012)

I think John Henry Irons should die permanently battling a giant steam monster. I don't hate the character, but I think it would be a great tribute to the Tall Tale of John Henry.

[Youtube]MxL38z9brtc[/Youtube]


----------



## Doom85 (May 21, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> Since it is rebooted, nobody had died or come back to life yet. I wonder if they'll ignore that gimmick and realize it isn't really effective. If they tease someone will die, they should die permanently.QUOTE]
> 
> I think resurrections should be reserved for characters who A) got poorly-written deaths and B) are characters that shouldn't be killed off forever like Superman, Joker, etc. If they followed that rule, maybe they would cut down on the whole stupid "we should kill someone off just for the hell of it, storyline potential be damned!" mindset some comic writers/executives have.
> 
> ...


----------



## sanx021 (May 22, 2012)

Is it possible the gay character is Billy Baston I do remember seeing a thread on the Dc boards before they were shut down


----------



## Spica (May 22, 2012)

Ok, so it's DEFINITELY not a lesbian because the scoop is that DC wants to challenge Marvel's upcoming gay marriage with their "reflection of society". 



> DC has gone back on co-publisher Dan Didio’s statements of last year that the New 52 would only contain original gay characters and would not be revealing that characters that appeared as straight in the pre-52 DC universe would not be revealed to be gay. Apparently, DC is loosening that mandate to mean that there will be some familiar characters that are newly gay in the New 52… but only when they’re introduced from the get-go as gay. To that point, DC is about to announce that they will be reintroducing a previously existing character as gay and it will make the character among the most prominent gay characters in their setting.()



Now, who was straight in the pre-52 who hasn’t been introduced yet, and is prominent?  I see someone suggests Captain Marvel, but he's a kid and that's just weird.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 22, 2012)

Huh, Billy would be kind of funny, and it'd be interesting to see someone write a gay child going through puberty. 

Now if that someone is Geoff Johns?


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 22, 2012)

Why do I feel it's going to be somebody like Vibe. somebody who hasn't appeared in years but his character was established before.


----------



## Petes12 (May 22, 2012)

Billy's 15 iirc so not that weird. 

But it won't be him, I can just about guarantee it. At least, that's not an aspect of the character Johns is interested in doing anything with. He always hyperfocuses on one theme per book and for Shazam that's obviously family. 

I think it'll be Alan Scott


----------



## Spica (May 22, 2012)

He's 15 now? 

Wow, the only appearances I've caught of him were from children's cartoons so I thought 7 to 9. 


DC, just give in to the biggest fan demography besides male readers and make Tim Drake gay.


----------



## Slice (May 22, 2012)

Spica said:


> the scoop is that DC wants to challenge* Marvel's upcoming gay marriag*e with their "reflection of society".



Ok, what did i miss?


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 22, 2012)

Slice said:


> Ok, what did i miss?



Northstar and his boyfriend are getting married...and somehow this is such a milestone and landmark issue despite the fact that Archie already did gay marriage months ago


----------



## Spica (May 22, 2012)

^It's a landmark because it's Marvel. When Archie did it, it was also a big thing, but this time it's a superhero comic giant.



Slice said:


> Ok, what did i miss?





> Marvel is expected to announce Northstar’s engagement to his boyfriend, Kyle,on ABC’s The View tomorrow.



From Bleeding Cool.



Wally is suddenly the big contender. 
The plot thickens....


----------



## Petes12 (May 22, 2012)

Ha, yeah, because wally's going to suddenly reappear next month when Manapul said like a week ago he's still totally off limits.


----------



## Mael (May 22, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Ha, yeah, because wally's going to suddenly reappear next month when Manapul said like a week ago he's still totally off limits.



Trolling of Wally fans to maximum effect, Linda Park now reduced to the archetypal straight female friend of ttyl gay Wally. 

But yeah...gay character I see.  There go the lesbian theories (it was done already with Batwoman).


----------



## Slice (May 22, 2012)

And it is well done with her. I'm really not a big fan of shoehorning this in this way.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 22, 2012)

Yeah....imo it has to either be a new character or a side character who is undeveloped enough that you can really define their character.


----------



## Slice (May 22, 2012)

As long as there is a good story to tell I'm open for anything, unfortunately i doubt there is a good story behind 'See that guy? He was gay all along!'


----------



## gabzilla (May 22, 2012)

It's gonna be Alan


----------



## Mael (May 22, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yeah....imo it has to either be a new character or a side character who is undeveloped enough that you can really define their character.



I'm not going to criticize DC the way I would with FOX or Glee, but I do worry that it reeks of pandering.  I mean, the TT already had the gay character Bunker and that was without as much fanfare, which is how it should be.  

I just pray it isn't JLU International.  Mr. Terrific is already a prat about his race...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 22, 2012)

Slice said:


> As long as there is a good story to tell I'm open for anything, unfortunately i doubt there is a good story behind 'See that guy? He was gay all along!'



Especially if it's directly contradicted by the character's past, or if the character's past needs to be significantly rewritten to include it.

When it comes to any character change, there's a point where if you're changing them THAT much you should really just create a new character. But of course DC won't do that because name recognition and what not.


----------



## Petes12 (May 22, 2012)

Slice said:


> As long as there is a good story to tell I'm open for anything, unfortunately i doubt there is a good story behind 'See that guy? He was gay all along!'



Well dc didnt really try to do this as a PR spin type thing, didio just answered a fan's question at a con and it became a thing


----------



## Petes12 (May 22, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Especially if it's directly contradicted by the character's past, or if the character's past needs to be significantly rewritten to include it.
> 
> When it comes to any character change, there's a point where if you're changing them THAT much you should really just create a new character. But of course DC won't do that because name recognition and what not.



meh. weather wizard's guatemalan now 

and if its an earth 2 guy then those characters really are being totally reinvented and don't have any history from before the reboot anymore.


----------



## Spica (May 22, 2012)

"All along"? I thought the reboot and stuff was meant as a clean slate. 

The problem with introducing a new character who's gay is that they will hit an ice berg before even put into the waters. Being an established character, we won't ignore him into obscurity as a new, original character would.

With that said, I know I'm pushing for this, but even I will not support a "Glee-tastic" approach like with Kurt, the most annoying person on the show (aside that crazy faux-pregnant woman, Rachel and Finn). His  "boohoo, I'm gay and gay is everything I am, why people not as gay as me, why my crush does not want to share room with me, we're brothers now and i love him, he no love me boohooo" which was the epitome of horrible, forced LGBT writing.

Being gay/straight does not define one's entire character. I do not want a gay superhero. I want a superhero who happens to be gay. I do not want sexy, voluptuos superheroine. I want a heroine who has a killer body and happens to be sexy.


----------



## Mael (May 22, 2012)

> Being gay/straight does not define one's entire character. I do not want a gay superhero. I want a superhero who happens to be gay. I do not want sexy, voluptuos superheroine. I want a heroine who has a killer body and happens to be sexy.



Pretty well said...but I'll have to play cynic and think money has some motivation behind less artistic moves.


----------



## Spica (May 22, 2012)

^It's okay, I'm not naive enough to think they were doing this because of good intentions, considering LGBT day is coming in June and all the focus it's been on gay marriage.

Though I do hope their money-hunger will give me my gay Tim Drake. 

There's a market for that, DC!


----------



## Slice (May 22, 2012)

Spica said:


> I do not want a gay superhero. I want a superhero who happens to be gay.



This sums it up perfectly.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 22, 2012)

Spica said:


> ^It's okay, I'm not naive enough to think they were doing this because of good intentions, considering LGBT day is coming in June and all the focus it's been on gay marriage.
> 
> Though I do hope their money-hunger will give me my gay Tim Drake.
> 
> There's a market for that, DC!



Making Tim gay would make no sense the only time he was written even remotely bisexual or homosexual was after One Year Later happened


----------



## Spica (May 22, 2012)

Making sense? 

I just want to feel this way:



EDIT: So I see people want Alfred instead, because of the Dumbledore-effect. Ah, if the butler really did it....


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 22, 2012)

Hmm...

Somebody brought up on a podcast I was listening to that The Phantom Stranger in the free comic book day special is now Judas...so we're down from four possible origins all of which could be true to just one apparently


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 22, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> meh. weather wizard's guatemalan now
> 
> and if its an earth 2 guy then those characters really are being totally reinvented and don't have any history from before the reboot anymore.



Right, but that can fit in without radically conflicting with events in his backstory. I'm more talking about characters who have had significant relationships with female characters. Like all the Tim fangirls who want him to be gay, that would require retconning all of his relationships over the years. Either they'd have to not exist, or they'd have to add retroactive "doubts" or whatever.



Spica said:


> The problem with introducing a new character who's gay is that they will hit an ice berg before even put into the waters. Being an established character, we won't ignore him into obscurity as a new, original character would.



The only successful "was gay but now is" character I can think of is Rictor, can anybody name any others? On the other hand, when I think of successful gay characters, most of them were either unestablished, or were intended to be gay right from the start. 

If they want shock value then yeah I think you're right, but I feel like the best way to achieve that "superhero that is gay" as opposed to gay superhero is to take a character who is unestablished or make a new character.



Emperor Joker said:


> Making Tim gay would make no sense the only time he was written even remotely bisexual or homosexual was after One Year Later happened



Pretty much. And it wasn't even "after one year later happened" it was "after one year later happened and only in the pages of Johns' TT".

A character should never be defined by a period when they were written out of character.


----------



## Doom85 (May 22, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Making Tim gay would make no sense the only time he was written even remotely bisexual or homosexual was after One Year Later happened



Was this after Geoff Johns' run ended on Teen Titans? Because the only romantic moment I remember after the timeskip was him kissing Cassie.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 22, 2012)

Doom85 said:


> Was this after Geoff Johns' run ended on Teen Titans? Because the only romantic moment I remember after the timeskip was him kissing Cassie.



Ha given the circumstances of their first kiss I'd say that's more a point in the gay column. That one was johns. Not sure if he wrote them getting together though.


----------



## Spica (May 22, 2012)

You don't have to discuss Tim's sexuality because of me, it's pretty much obvious it won't be him from the apparent prerequisites. Just me letting out some air. The authenticity of my fantasies are usually too watered and out of context.  Tho I like to think he was way too obsessed over Kon's death. 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> The only successful "was gay but now is" character I can think of is Rictor, can anybody name any others? On the other hand, when I think of successful gay characters, most of them were either unestablished, or were intended to be gay right from the start.
> 
> If they want shock value then yeah I think you're right, but I feel like the best way to achieve that "superhero that is gay" as opposed to gay superhero is to take a character who is unestablished or make a new character.



Hm, I partly agree but I feel that then the new character will only be defined by their orientation as that's the first thing we are presented with during their introduction. Power of first impression and all will make this a foundation for his entire persona. At least with established characters, this newfound sexuality will just be a newly added side to them as we know these characters from more than just their orientation/sexuality. Unless there's really bad writing and DC decides to spend the introduction scenes of them clantily dressed and are about to/have had/is undergoing sexual activities to really put it out that they're now gay. 

"I am a superhero. And I'm gay. Just gay. When you see me, think gay. That's what I am. Gay. Oh and I like sports - because of all the hot, muscular guys - and shopping - cuz I like hanging out with girls. I'm gay, remember that." *snaps fabulous finger* 

Of course, I wouldn't mind a new original character if he's not like that. ^

Has any established straight character ever been "turned" gay before? (Not including lesbians.)


----------



## Doom85 (May 22, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Ha given the circumstances of their first kiss I'd say that's more a point in the gay column. That one was johns. Not sure if he wrote them getting together though.



Eh, I'd say that's a real big stretch. Come on, Tim had lost a SHITLOAD of people he cared about within the last few years (I'm surprised Bart's death didn't send him into outright insanity), it would make sense he'd be obsessed with bringing back the one person he had the means to. I'm pretty sure if there was a way he could have brought back his dad or whoever he'd be just as obsessed with doing that too.


----------



## Petes12 (May 22, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Right, but that can fit in without radically conflicting with events in his backstory. I'm more talking about characters who have had significant relationships with female characters. Like all the Tim fangirls who want him to be gay, that would require retconning all of his relationships over the years. Either they'd have to not exist, or they'd have to add retroactive "doubts" or whatever.



Well yeah but there's plenty of characters where romance wasn't a big factor in their stories anyway.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 23, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Well yeah but there's plenty of characters where romance wasn't a big factor in their stories anyway.



Exactly. Take Jason for instance. The only time we ever saw him with a girl was Talia (ewww), and the everything else just comes off as macho posturing "oh yeah, she's been *with* me", which is why I could see him possibly being gay.

Basically I'm much more open to a character being "made" gay if they don't really have any established sexuality that would require retconning.



Spica said:


> You don't have to discuss Tim's sexuality because of me, it's pretty much obvious it won't be him from the apparent prerequisites. Just me letting out some air. The authenticity of my fantasies are usually too watered and out of context.  Tho I like to think he was way too obsessed over Kon's death.



Oh no it's cool. I mean, if I was going solely on Teen Titans I'd think there was definitely a case to be made. 



> Hm, I partly agree but I feel that then the new character will only be defined by their orientation as that's the first thing we are presented with during their introduction. Power of first impression and all will make this a foundation for his entire persona. At least with established characters, this newfound sexuality will just be a newly added side to them as we know these characters from more than just their orientation/sexuality. Unless there's really bad writing and DC decides to spend the introduction scenes of them clantily dressed and are about to/have had/is undergoing sexual activities to really put it out that they're now gay.



I think when it's well written that doesn't happen. Like the only people who really define Kate and Renee around their sexuality are those who haven't read their books. And just because a character is intended to be gay doesn't mean they have to right out of the gate be like YO THIS CHARACTER IS GAY.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 23, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Oh no it's cool. I mean, if I was going solely on Teen Titans I'd think there was definitely a case to be made.



Actually, if you're looking just at the Teen Titans, Superboy is a possible candidate as well. Since he's been redone from the ground up, they could just toss that in once Superboy discovers romance for the first time.

I have to admit, I wouldn't mind this just to see the nutters who would lose their shit by interpreting the gayness to be applied to Superman and/or Lex Luthor.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 23, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Actually, if you're looking just at the Teen Titans, Superboy is a possible candidate as well. Since he's been redone from the ground up, they could just toss that in once Superboy discovers romance for the first time.
> 
> I have to admit, I wouldn't mind this just to see the nutters who would lose their shit by interpreting the gayness to be applied to Superman and/or Lex Luthor.



I'd be okay with superboy being gay, since like you said he was redone from the ground up. And yeah that would be pretty funny.


----------



## Spica (May 23, 2012)

Superboy being gay is my preferred option #2 

Well, he IS the lovechild of Superman and Lex Luthor.


----------



## Rukia (May 23, 2012)

Cass is going to admit her feelings to Stephanie.


----------



## Mael (May 23, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Cass is going to admit her feelings to Stephanie.



In a tumblr dream maybe. 

Nah I believe this character surprise is of the male variety.


----------



## gabzilla (May 23, 2012)

Doom85 said:


> Was this after Geoff Johns' run ended on Teen Titans? Because the only romantic moment I remember after the timeskip was him kissing Cassie.



Him kissing Cassie to feel closer to Superboy after he tried to clone him?


----------



## Petes12 (May 23, 2012)

mmm the lips that kissed connors lips


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 23, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> mmm the lips that kissed connors lips



Pretty much. You know I'm a diehard Tim fan, so the fact that  after reading that I just busted out laughing instead of nerdraging or facepalming should tell you something.


----------



## Petes12 (May 23, 2012)

Oh hey Batman Inc is back


----------



## Rukia (May 23, 2012)

Mael said:


> In a tumblr dream maybe.
> 
> Nah I believe this character surprise is of the male variety.


Risky.  Male vs female subscribers.  What sort of ratio do you think we are looking at?  80% male?


----------



## Mael (May 23, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Risky.  Male vs female subscribers.  What sort of ratio do you think we are looking at?  80% male?



It could attract gay comic readers? 

But I don't think it's even up for debate.  IIRC it's going to be homosexual male, not lesbian.  Maybe they'll look to pander less and open up more.


----------



## Parallax (May 23, 2012)

it's already been confirmed that it's gonna be a male


----------



## Narutossss (May 23, 2012)

so much gay talk, didn't know dc readers were into that shit.


----------



## Mael (May 23, 2012)

Parallax said:


> it's already been confirmed that it's gonna be a male



Thought so.  And now half the fanbase gets disappointed there shan't be a lezbeen.



Narutossss said:


> so much gay talk, didn't know dc readers were into that shit.



It's all Barry Allen's fault, really.


----------



## Petes12 (May 23, 2012)

it's a topical issue these days, i think especially lately it's on a lot of people's minds to some extent


----------



## Spica (May 23, 2012)

Mael said:


> It could attract gay comic readers?
> 
> But I don't think it's even up for debate.  IIRC it's going to be homosexual male, not lesbian.  Maybe they'll look to pander less and open up more.



Gay comic readers and legion of yaoi fangirls.


----------



## Slice (May 23, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> it's a topical issue these days, i think especially lately it's on a lot of people's minds to some extent



That makes it even worse since it proves they are only doing it for the publicity.


----------



## Guy Gardner (May 23, 2012)

You know, most of Kyle Rayner's girlfriends are no longer in continuity...


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 23, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> You know, most of Kyle Rayner's girlfriends are no longer in continuity...



Yeah apparently only Alexandra is...going by the recent issue of Blue Beetle where he flashes back to her death.

Maybe Sora is as well, though who knows...she's been curiosly absent  from any of the Lantern books so far


----------



## Petes12 (May 23, 2012)

Slice said:


> That makes it even worse since it proves they are only doing it for the publicity.



I suspect the writer was gonna do it and it just turned into a publicity thing. but we'll see next month


----------



## Mael (May 23, 2012)

Guy Gardner said:


> You know, most of Kyle Rayner's girlfriends are no longer in continuity...


----------



## Spica (May 23, 2012)

Slice said:


> That makes it even worse since it proves they are only doing it for the publicity.



Of course they are. Marvel is going full out gay marriage and DC is having a case of "me too".


----------



## Rukia (May 23, 2012)

Wow.  Damian got killed in the first issue?  Ballsy.


----------



## Mael (May 23, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Wow.  Damian got killed in the first issue?  Ballsy.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fWUUXeKM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Slice (May 23, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Wow.  Damian got killed in the first issue?  Ballsy.






*delays going to bed to find source hoping Rukia is only trolling*


----------



## Rukia (May 23, 2012)

Shot in the head by someone wearing a goat head.  Pretty embarrassing.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 23, 2012)

Slice said:


> *delays going to bed to find source hoping Rukia is only trolling*



Oh no...he's not. though I seriously doubt DC is going to let Morrison keep him dead...especially considering Damien still has a ton of story potenial


----------



## Slice (May 23, 2012)

I read it. I will do the same i do with Coulson and live in denial until proven otherwise.


----------



## Penance (May 23, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Oh no...he's not. though I seriously doubt DC is going to let Morrison keep him dead...especially considering Damien still has a ton of story potenial



I heard that they took Morrison off of Inc, again...(and Action)


----------



## Penance (May 23, 2012)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 23, 2012)

Batman INC was awesome, as expected, but I Vampire may have tied it. Bennett's just one awesome jesus christ supervampire.


----------



## Rukia (May 23, 2012)

I like Batman Inc.  And that was a decent first issue.

I also read World's Finest #1 today.  Another enjoyable read.


----------



## Platinum (May 23, 2012)

There's a lazarus pit with his name on it I bet, he's not staying dead for long.


----------



## Rukia (May 23, 2012)

I want Damian to kill Talia at some point.


----------



## Petes12 (May 23, 2012)

I liked the reversal of the year one mafia dinner

also i liked aquaman, nice twist at the end


----------



## Parallax (May 23, 2012)

It'll be like that time we all thought Hurt killed Dick in issue #13 of B&R


----------



## Rukia (May 23, 2012)

I thought Batman was killed when he was investigating the Talon's safehouse.  Still don't know how he survived that explosion!


----------



## Platinum (May 24, 2012)

Other heroes put bad guys in jail, Aquaman puts them in a grave .


----------



## gabzilla (May 24, 2012)

pft Damian ain't dead, notice that Batman's cowl is intact in that photo


----------



## Petes12 (May 24, 2012)

That's a good catch 

I mean, obviously damian was fine but I didn't notice the cowl thing


----------



## Agent (May 24, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Shot in the head by someone wearing a goat head.  Pretty embarrassing.



His name is Goatboy


----------



## Petes12 (May 24, 2012)

I saw someone suggest morrison was poking fun at the court of owls with goatboy and I think he must've been right. That stuff about knowing gotham, and it's history, and it informing his ridiculous name


----------



## Agent (May 24, 2012)

Yeah I can picture that lol but..



Petes12 said:


> ridiculous name



whut?


----------



## Petes12 (May 24, 2012)

goatboy **


----------



## Agent (May 24, 2012)

It's a name like no other


----------



## Mael (May 24, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> goatboy **



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdpIC2AtkY[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## gabzilla (May 24, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I saw someone suggest morrison was poking fun at the court of owls with goatboy and I think he must've been right. That stuff about knowing gotham, and it's history, and it informing his ridiculous name



I certainly hope so. The Owls arc has been _really_ underwhelming.


----------



## Petes12 (May 24, 2012)

I've liked it. Especially the last issue.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 24, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> I certainly hope so. The Owls arc has been _really_ underwhelming.



I disagree. as i've actually really liked it. even the Night of the Owls aside from Batwing and maybe Batgirl (seriously Gordon why not just the turn the signal off) has been pretty solid and entertaining


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 24, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> I disagree. as i've actually really liked it. even the Night of the Owls aside from Batwing and maybe Batgirl (seriously Gordon why not just the turn the signal off) has been pretty solid and entertaining



Agreed, although this event also confirmed what I've been dreading for a while, that Tim isn't part of the bat family anymore. You know that issue of TDK where he's on the cover? One panel, and possibly the worst I've ever seen Finch draw a character. Glad I didn't buy that shit. But yeah pretty depressing for me.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 24, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Agreed, although this event also confirmed what I've been dreading for a while, that Tim isn't part of the bat family anymore. You know that issue of TDK where he's on the cover? One panel, and possibly the worst I've ever seen Finch draw a character. Glad I didn't buy that shit. But yeah pretty depressing for me.



So instead of being a day in the limelight issue...it's another "What Bruce did that night" issue like Detective Comics was? 

That's a fucking shame really.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 24, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So instead of being a day in the limelight issue...it's another "What Bruce did that night" issue like Detective Comics was?
> 
> That's a fucking shame really.



Tim doesn't even speak. There's one panel where he's sitting there with Dick and Damian, that's it. But yeah it's just the talon's backstory and Bruce fighting said talon.

I wish Tim would just go into limbo with Cass and Steph.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 24, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Tim doesn't even speak. There's one panel where he's sitting there with Dick and Damian, that's it. But yeah it's just the talon's backstory and Bruce fighting said talon.
> 
> I wish Tim would just go into limbo with Cass and Steph.



So in other words like the previous eight issues and the volume before that...The Dark Knight is completely pointless once again. 

Honestly it's a shame that Tim is getting this kind of treatment, it's bad enough that he's stuck on the snorefest that is Teen Titans but to be just completely ignored like this when all the other official Robin's got to take out thier own Talon...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 24, 2012)

I should just stop expecting anything. He was my favorite character, and the one that really got me into comics, but he's been on a downward slope since Identity Crisis, with the latter half of Yost's run being the only upswing (since the first half was damage control and forced tie ins).


----------



## Agent (May 24, 2012)

Snyder has been killing it on Batman. Easily the best DC new 52 book.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 24, 2012)

Agent said:


> Snyder has been killing it on Batman. Easily the best DC new 52 book.



Eh it's up there for me, but I personally rank Wonder Woman and Swamp Thing higher


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 24, 2012)

Last bit on Tim then I'm done ha. The main thing that bugs me is that for all these characters it was all about trimming what doesn't work and focusing on what made the character great to begin with. For Tim, it was that he was (oversimply put) Peter Parker meets Batman. I really don't see how that concept wouldn't have legs with a decent writer.


----------



## Rukia (May 24, 2012)

I'm disappointed I didn't see Black Bat in the first issue of Incorporated.





Agent said:


> Snyder has been killing it on Batman. Easily the best DC new 52 book.


Wonder Woman and Justice League Dark are right there.


----------



## Petes12 (May 24, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So instead of being a day in the limelight issue...it's another "What Bruce did that night" issue like Detective Comics was?
> 
> That's a fucking shame really.



it actually was mostly the talon's story, and it wasn't bad, but i don't think it's what they originally intended to do


----------



## Petes12 (May 24, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Last bit on Tim then I'm done ha. The main thing that bugs me is that for all these characters it was all about trimming what doesn't work and focusing on what made the character great to begin with. For Tim, it was that he was (oversimply put) Peter Parker meets Batman. I really don't see how that concept wouldn't have legs with a decent writer.



to be fair that's basically what nightwing is


----------



## Agent (May 24, 2012)

Justice League Dark lost me for taking too long to get started. Never really cared for Swamp Thing and Wonder Woman's solo series but I hear they are great.


----------



## Mael (May 25, 2012)

Agent said:


> Snyder has been killing it on Batman. Easily the best DC new 52 book.



Yeah I'm going to disagree and say Flash so far has been.

Yes, there's bias, but the pacing of the plot so far has IMO been incredibly efficient.


----------



## tari101190 (May 25, 2012)

Agent said:


> Justice League Dark lost me for taking too long to get started...


I found it hard to read too to be honest, but have started again with issue #9 ad it sees like an interesting starting point.

And I like the whole "Steve Trevor Agent of ARGUS" thing DC are doing now. He/They seem to be slowly being integrated in to everything, potentially leading upto something.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> to be fair that's basically what nightwing is



Not really, aside from their personalities at first glance. Dick (much like Bruce) doesn't have any kind of life outside of superheroing. Every attempt to establish one (college? Cop? Museum curator?) has felt tacked on and meaningless. I like that Dick growing up was so ingrained with the DCU supercommunity and I wish that was focused on more, but as a result of that he doesn't have that many connections to the non super community, nor does he have much of a reason to aside from Haly's.

When I say Tim is(was) peter parker meets spider-man i mean that he had to juggle his life in and out of tights, and actually HAD a life outside of tights to juggle.


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2012)

ok good point


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2012)

Mael said:


> Yeah I'm going to disagree and say Flash so far has been.
> 
> Yes, there's bias, but the pacing of the plot so far has IMO been incredibly efficient.



I have to agree with Agent, Batman's writing is a lot better and... meatier? And the art is as good


----------



## Mael (May 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I have to agree with Agent, Batman's writing is a lot better and... meatier? And the art is as good



There was a little hiccup with the Manny bit, I'll admit, but I felt Flash's writing to be calmer and give people more time to absorb the context.  Batman is simply Batman and while good, I guess I'm not feeling the charm anymore being overexposed.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I have to agree with Agent, Batman's writing is a lot better and... meatier? And the art is as good



Batman definitely has better writing for me, but admittedly since Batman has been good for....ever, I think I'm more impressed with Flash.

Not saying that isn't biased, of course. Overall though Batman has great writing and great art, while Flash has decent/good writing and fantastic art.



Agent said:


> Justice League Dark lost me for taking too long to get started. Never really cared for Swamp Thing and Wonder Woman's solo series but I hear they are great.



I would recommend checking out the most recent issue of JLD if you liked the concept but not the actual book. Jeff Lemire just took over and the most recent issue was pretty good. Art was a little off though.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 25, 2012)

Whip is right regarding JL Dark. Once you get past the first arc, it really picks up.


----------



## Glued (May 25, 2012)

I'm loving the Prisoner of War concept in Aquaman.

Hell the ending was wow, so Aquaman killed Manta's father. Manta's dad gave Aquaman's dad a heart attack, which is why they hate each other.

This means Arthur Junior never really existed. The origin of Flashpoint never happened. The events of Blackest Night such as Aquaman showing the corpse of his dead son never happened.

So this means, Mera might get pregnant soon.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 25, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> I'm loving the Prisoner of War concept in Aquaman.
> 
> Hell the ending was wow, so Aquaman killed Manta's father. Manta's dad gave Aquaman's dad a heart attack, which is why they hate each other.
> 
> ...



So Manta finally has a good origin...only took them what four decades?


----------



## Bluebeard (May 25, 2012)

^

And it's really simple too!


----------



## Platinum (May 26, 2012)

Aquaman is up there in the best new series of the 52.


----------



## Glued (May 26, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So Manta finally has a good origin...only took them what four decades?



What about the 90s origin (Pre-Peter David) where he was molested and abused as a child on a ship where he cried out to Aquaman to save him from a window, but Aquaman couldn't hear him, eventually forcing Manta to slit the throats of his captors then develop a hatred for the Ocean.

Or how about the one where he was diagnosed with a special type of autism (one where a soft pillow feels like knives yet harsh sea water feels comforting), they didn't know how to treat him so they sent him to Arkham Asylum where the doctors malpractice drove him to insanity.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 26, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> What about the 90s origin (Pre-Peter David) where he was molested and abused as a child on a ship where he cried out to Aquaman to save him from a window, but Aquaman couldn't hear him, eventually forcing Manta to slit the throats of his captors then develop a hatred for the Ocean.
> 
> Or how about the one where he was diagnosed with a special type of autism (one where a soft pillow feels like knives yet harsh sea water feels comforting), they didn't know how to treat him so they sent him to Arkham Asylum where the doctors malpractice drove him to insanity.



I don't remember the first one. the second one though, I remember hating


----------



## Petes12 (May 26, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> What about the 90s origin (Pre-Peter David) where he was molested and abused as a child on a ship where he cried out to Aquaman to save him from a window, but Aquaman couldn't hear him, eventually forcing Manta to slit the throats of his captors then develop a hatred for the Ocean.
> 
> Or how about the one where he was diagnosed with a special type of autism (one where a soft pillow feels like knives yet harsh sea water feels comforting), they didn't know how to treat him so they sent him to Arkham Asylum where the doctors malpractice drove him to insanity.



thats hilariously bad


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 27, 2012)

It was the 90s.


----------



## Glued (May 27, 2012)

The one where he was sent to Arkham Asylum to be treated for his autism was after 2000.


----------



## Glued (May 27, 2012)

Comic Book Guy said:


> It was the 90s.



My favorite era.


----------



## gabzilla (May 28, 2012)

I'd buy Aquaman and Flash for the art alone. Gorgeous stuff.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 28, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> I'd buy Aquaman and Flash for the art alone. Gorgeous stuff.



Pretty much, but Johns and Manny/Buchy aren't doing too bad on the writing side of things.

The only thing that worries me is that johns is almost always great when it comes to re establishing a character. But when all the ground work is done and it's time to build on that foundation...that's when he kinda slips.

Although with Justice League it seems to be the opposite. I was really surprised at how much better the most recent issue was.

Still though, reread JLA vol.1 over the weekend, blows it out of the water. Johns and Lee just need to realize that Justice League should be about bringing the awesome first and foremost. Well, bringing the awesome and staying true to the basics of the characters.


----------



## kisuke55 (May 28, 2012)

hey guys im new to nf and i have a couple dc questions.

is cass/batgirl still around?
is wally west?
is martian manhunter,if he is,is he in the league?


----------



## kisuke55 (May 28, 2012)

hey guys im new to nf and i have a couple dc questions.

is cass/batgirl still around?
is wally west?
is martian manhunter,if he is,is he in the league?


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 28, 2012)

kisuke55 said:


> hey guys im new to nf and i have a couple dc questions.
> 
> is cass/batgirl still around?
> is wally west?
> is martian manhunter,if he is,is he in the league?



Martian Manhunter is the only one you listed that has actually shown up. He's a member of Stormwatch but not a member of the League (Instead he's fought them once)


----------



## kisuke55 (May 28, 2012)

i was a huge dc fan and bought alot of titles new every month,until the new 52.
1.was tired of being robbed with the constant events
2.rebooting the characters pissed me off.

outside of those 3 grayson and rayner round up my top 5,at least i know im not missing much


----------



## Petes12 (May 28, 2012)

well, if you're willing to get past the changes, the books are generally speaking a lot better now


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 28, 2012)

kisuke55 said:


> i was a huge dc fan and bought alot of titles new every month,until the new 52.
> 1.was tired of being robbed with the constant events
> 2.rebooting the characters pissed me off.
> 
> outside of those 3 grayson and rayner round up my top 5,at least i know im not missing much



Actually quality wise most of the DC books are much better than they were before Flashpoint happened. Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Action Comics, Flash and Wonder Woman are all fantastic


----------



## kisuke55 (May 29, 2012)

its like being married for years,and then one day the past you had together dosent exist.the new wife may be better but you loved the old one


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 29, 2012)

kisuke55 said:


> its like being married for years,and then one day the past you had together dosent exist.the new wife may be better but you loved the old one



What?

Um...no it's not. comparing a buyable product to a significent other should not even be in the same train of thought.

keep in mind this isn't even the first time DC has pushed the reboot button either


----------



## Petes12 (May 29, 2012)

kisuke55 said:


> its like being married for years,and then one day the past you had together dosent exist.the new wife may be better but you loved the old one



k. but you're missing out. frankly pre-reboot dc was kinda shit outside of a few batman and GL books.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (May 29, 2012)

So the gay character is most likely 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Alan Scott


 after all. I had a feeling it would be him or Jimmy Olsen, but was more confident with the person being from Earth-2.

By the way, lol all those pushing for Rayner to take that spot. He still smashed the daughters of Sinestro and Scott, retcon or not :ho.


----------



## Petes12 (May 29, 2012)

But if it were raynor just think how many women would still be alive today


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (May 29, 2012)

You shut your whore mouth .

Honestly though, I'm not liking the decision (if it's reliable) because of family values being one the main key aspects of his character. I was talking about this with a buddy of mine on another forum and I'm not even sure how they're going to handle Jade and Obsidian now, or Scott's love for his wife. 

It's the same problem people would have if they turned Garrick or Wildcat gay, or Midnighter straight.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 29, 2012)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> So the gay character is most likely
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



You know, thats not so bad. In fact, since Robinson will be writing him, I have no problem with that at all. Assuming thats correct, that is.


----------



## Petes12 (May 29, 2012)

Lucifer Morningstar said:


> You shut your whore mouth .
> 
> Honestly though, I'm not liking the decision (if it's reliable) because of family values being one the main key aspects of his character. I was talking about this with a buddy of mine on another forum and I'm not even sure how they're going to handle Jade and Obsidian now, or Scott's love for his wife.
> 
> It's the same problem people would have if they turned Garrick or Wildcat gay, or Midnighter straight.



what's the problem with a nobody like wildcat being gay?

family values is code for bigotry


----------



## gabzilla (May 29, 2012)

DC: Big news! We are gonna make one of our iconic characters gay! 
Fandom: Yay!
DC: It's Alan Scott!
New buyers: Who?


----------



## Bergelmir (May 29, 2012)

Alas, gabz is correct.  More people need to learn of the majesty that is Alan Scott.


----------



## Petes12 (May 29, 2012)

They shouldn't have said iconic. Even if he sort of is to DC fans, as head of the JSA guys. But then it blew up into this huge news everyone's going omg batman's gonna be gay raaaaaaaaaaage


----------



## Parallax (May 29, 2012)

I think what LM is saying is that you're turning a character who has been established to be a hetero family man gay.  Which is why he also brought up Midnighter how turning him hetero would be a bad move.

at least that's what I think


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (May 29, 2012)

Yeah, basically what Parallax said. That's how I've seen the anchor of Scott's character as, so if another character who wasn't as reliant on that family aspect of being a large part of why he's as established as he is, it wouldn't be much of a problem.


----------



## Guy Gardner (May 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> But if it were raynor just think how many women would still be alive today



Most of them are out of continuity anyways, though.


----------



## Petes12 (May 29, 2012)

ah well. they were already de-aged, the family stuff was out the window either way. i thought garrick was much more family man than scott, maybe just because the people he considered family were characters i actually cared about. but even he had a rather harsh breakup with joan in issue 1.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 29, 2012)

With the reboot I guess I'm okay with it. It's Robinson so I'm sure it'll be well written. And I think we need to see if Jade and Obsidian even exist, since it's likely that they don't and as a result Alan's whole "family values" shtick might be gone as well.



Petes12 said:


> ah well. they were already de-aged, the family stuff was out the window either way. i thought garrick was much more family man than scott, maybe just because the people he considered family were characters i actually cared about. but even he had a rather harsh breakup with joan in issue 1.



I think its also that Jay's family were prominent flash characters, while Alan's were either dead or in obscurity. Admittedly though I'm not a huge JSA fan, so I wouldn't know either way. 

But yeah, Jay's break up with Joan made me lol.


----------



## Petes12 (May 29, 2012)

Yeah that's what I meant. Garrick was surrounded by flashes, which I thought was really lame and don't miss it at all but whatever.

But alan's got jade and obsidian. aka no one cares


----------



## kisuke55 (May 29, 2012)

yeah arent the jsa gone now? that was another of the things that pissed me off about the reboot. it would make sense for alan to be gay with obsidean being gay,but if in the reboot alan was gay to begin with there wouldent be an obsidean,unless he got married and turned gay after.

any news of a new jsa book? is sinestro still gl? i hope so i never cared for jordan every time i read his issues i feel depressed.

also 1 more question what exactly are these new things the gaurdians are tryin to replace the corps with?


----------



## Platinum (May 29, 2012)

Sinestro is still a green lantern and we haven't seen the third army the guardians want to replace the lanterns with yet.


----------



## Parallax (May 29, 2012)

I wouldn't be surprise if they hold off on that for some time.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 29, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I wouldn't be surprise if they hold off on that for some time.



I don't think it's going to be too long. probably some time next year to be honest.

Once all the calamaties that are happening to to Rainbow Corps are over (the Star Sapphires are like the only ones left that haven't been hit by something I think) I expect we'll be seeing the lead in for the Third Army Lantern event

I mean let's lok at the Rainbow corps at the moment.

the Greens - War of the Green Lanterns just happened and the Guardians are gearing up for thier Third Army and have Mind Raped Ganthet back into the fold

The Yellow Lanterns - Decimated by Sinestro and Hal Jordan, Arkillo and Weaponer are the only ones left

The Indigo Tribe - Lantern Battery destroyed...possible Munk will be the only one left.

The Red Lanterns - had thier Central power battery poisoned and forced to leave thier homeworld.

Blue Lanterns - Currently being invaded by the Reach, an have lost Ganthet and Sayd to The Guardians and Larfleeze respectivly

Agent Orange - Currently fine but I doubt for long

Star Sapphires - Currently fine but again I doubt for Long


----------



## Petes12 (May 29, 2012)

kisuke55 said:


> yeah arent the jsa gone now? that was another of the things that pissed me off about the reboot. it would make sense for alan to be gay with obsidean being gay,but if in the reboot alan was gay to begin with there wouldent be an obsidean,unless he got married and turned gay after.
> 
> any news of a new jsa book? is sinestro still gl? i hope so i never cared for jordan every time i read his issues i feel depressed.
> 
> also 1 more question what exactly are these new things the gaurdians are tryin to replace the corps with?



JSA characters star in the new book 'earth 2'

yes there's no obsidian i'm sure. does anyone care?


----------



## gabzilla (May 29, 2012)

I care. I liked him  



Emperor Joker said:


> I don't think it's going to be too long. probably some time next year to be honest.
> 
> Once all the calamaties that are happening to to Rainbow Corps are over (the Star Sapphires are like the only ones left that haven't been hit by something I think) I expect we'll be seeing the lead in for the Third Army Lantern event
> 
> ...



whaaaaaat D:


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 29, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> I care. I liked him
> 
> 
> 
> whaaaaaat D:



Ganthet was forcibally re-inducted into the Guardians and had all his emotions taken away. Sayd gave herself to Larfleeze for some reason or another.

So the Blue Lanterns have lost both thier founders


----------



## Platinum (May 29, 2012)

Poor blue lanterns .


----------



## kisuke55 (May 29, 2012)

all of the sinestro corps are dead but 2?


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 29, 2012)

kisuke55 said:


> all of the sinestro corps are dead but 2?



Not dead (well some are), but when Sinestro and Hal destroyed the Yellow Central Power Battery all of Corps member nearby (which apparently was nearly all of them) lost thier power rings, were subdued and were taken to Oa


----------



## kisuke55 (May 29, 2012)

so is hal back now? or is sinestro breaking the rules being with him


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 29, 2012)

kisuke55 said:


> so is hal back now? or is sinestro breaking the rules being with him



Sinestro made him a ring and Hal is dependent on Sinestro's good will to keep it.


----------



## kisuke55 (May 29, 2012)

that sounds like a good idea, i never liked hal, his constant mistakes have left me depressed to many times. im more of a rayner guy. and i like gardner. seems like thy're tryin to make stewart into the new jordan,with the whole mogo thing.stewart is just worthless and so is jordan


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 29, 2012)

kisuke55 said:


> that sounds like a good idea, i never liked hal, his constant mistakes have left me depressed to many times. im more of a rayner guy. and i like gardner. seems like thy're tryin to make stewart into the new jordan,with the whole mogo thing.stewart is just worthless and so is jordan



Eh Johns has done a good job of making Hal be likable and have more personality as of late (even if he is a insufferable asshole in Justice League) and his book is pretty good. John I don't see how you think they're wanking him when the thing with Mogo was situational and wouldn't have happened if Mogo didn't have all that Black Lantern energy inside him.


----------



## kisuke55 (May 29, 2012)

for years stewart was only there to have a black character,i have no problem with what he did to mogo,but the corps did.its like hes replacin jordan as the one the corps hate.

ive given up on him becoming a great character on his own,dc wont do it


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 29, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Eh Johns has done a good job of making Hal be likable and have more personality as of late (even if he is a insufferable asshole in Justice League) and his book is pretty good. John I don't see how you think they're wanking him when the thing with Mogo was situational and wouldn't have happened if Mogo didn't have all that Black Lantern energy inside him.



Am I the only one who likes Hal in Justice League? I agree he's an insufferable asshole, but as long as he's occasionally humbled by Batman and is blatantly intimidated by Wonder Woman I'm okay with it.


----------



## Bluebeard (May 30, 2012)

I honestly feel bad for being glad that the Rainbow Corps are slowly dissapearing. I'm ready for some new stories and more exploring the universe, diferrent planets, aliens, and all that shit.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 30, 2012)

Lex Luthor said:


> I honestly feel bad for being glad that the Rainbow Corps are slowly dissapearing. I'm ready for some new stories and more exploring the universe, diferrent planets, aliens, and all that shit.



I completely agree, although I don't think it's necessary to get rid of the rainbows to have that, just stop focusing the plot around the spectrum. Missionaries (blue) can exist with cops (green) right? And I think it would make sense for some areas to be more peaceful under yellow protection than green.

I'd say violet, indigo, and red don't really have a long term purpose though.


----------



## gabzilla (May 30, 2012)

I have the cartoon for my rainbow corps fix, the comics can do whatever they want.

As long as they don't kill my Blue Lanterns. 



Emperor Joker said:


> Ganthet was forcibally re-inducted into the Guardians and had all his emotions taken away. Sayd gave herself to Larfleeze for some reason or another.
> 
> So the Blue Lanterns have lost both thier founders



Fuck the Guardians.


----------



## Gunners (May 30, 2012)

Is the Flash actually worth reading? I've heard good reports from it but the fanboy in me is angry over what they did to Wally.


----------



## Mael (May 30, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Is the Flash actually worth reading? I've heard good reports from it but the fanboy in me is angry over what they did to Wally.



The plot is somewhat simple but easy to comprehend and the art is quite something to behold.  I recommend it.


----------



## Petes12 (May 30, 2012)

snyder's made some big changes to mr freeze.


----------



## Agent (May 30, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> snyder's made some big changes to mr freeze.


Kind of ruined Freeze as the sympathetic villain.


----------



## Platinum (May 30, 2012)

I do not like the freeze changes at all. No need for freeze to be another crazy.


----------



## Bluebeard (May 30, 2012)

^

Could someone explain to me Synder's change of Mr. Freeze? I'm kind of interested in hearing it...


----------



## Platinum (May 30, 2012)

Nora is not really freeze's wife, just the first person to ever be cryogenically frozen leading to his obsession with her and thinking they were meant to be together.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 30, 2012)

Wow, they really changed up Freeze. I have to say, I am interested to see how Freeze's characterization will change from here on out.


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 30, 2012)

While he's knocked out can they shave his head and get rid of that dinky haircut he has going?


----------



## Platinum (May 30, 2012)

Freeze has a worse hairline than lebron.


----------



## Agent (May 30, 2012)

Just another character that has become a casualty because of this reboot. Sad, Freeze was one of my fave Bat-villains but now he's even more loony than the Joker and I had such faith in Snyder too.


----------



## Agent (May 30, 2012)

Lex Luthor said:


> ^
> 
> Could someone explain to me Synder's change of Mr. Freeze? I'm kind of interested in hearing it...



and Freeze killed his own mother when he was a kid.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 31, 2012)

I'm okay with new freeze. Makes him a legit bad guy, and someone who actually belongs in Arkham.


----------



## Platinum (May 31, 2012)

Agent said:


> Just another character that has become a casualty because of this reboot. Sad, Freeze was one of my fave Bat-villains but now he's even more loony than the Joker and I had such faith in Snyder too.



This is the only iffy note from Snyder so far it's not like he's writing The Dark Knight.


----------



## gabzilla (May 31, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Nora is not really freeze's wife, just the first person to ever be cryogenically frozen leading to his obsession with her and thinking they were meant to be together.



What the fuck.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 31, 2012)

Honestly the whole "Save Nora!" thing got lame to me after a while. I mean I get it, but at the same time so many of his plots fall into:

Step 1. Commit crime/atrocity for profit.
Step 2. ???????
Step 3. Save Nora

Like how often does he genuinely have a plan to save her? I feel like in any scenario where Freeze had a sound idea but lacked the resources Bats would put up the money. The only excuse there really is for him to be a recurring villain is the whole "suit runs on diamonds" ridiculousness.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 31, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Honestly the whole "Save Nora!" thing got lame to me after a while. I mean I get it, but at the same time so many of his plots fall into:
> 
> Step 1. Commit crime/atrocity for profit.
> Step 2. ???????
> ...



Wait, what?


----------



## Mael (May 31, 2012)

Seriously?  Nora Fries was what made Victor that tragic villain that stood him out from the other Batman villains.  I don't like the rewriting one bit and now it makes him look more a psychopath stalker than a reluctant man who wanted to save his love.  And anyway, Nora was resurrected as Lazara and went on to spite Victor only adding to the maudlin.

Mr. Freeze was my favorite Batman villain with the level of liking I have for Spiderman's Venom.  Damn shame what they're doing, tired motive or not.


----------



## Agent (May 31, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Wait, what?



Metaphor for needing money to keep his suit running, I think I hope.


----------



## gabzilla (May 31, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Honestly the whole "Save Nora!" thing got lame to me after a while. I mean I get it, but at the same time so many of his plots fall into:
> 
> Step 1. Commit crime/atrocity for profit.
> Step 2. ???????
> ...



There are ways to make Freeze interesting without turning him into James Jr with a boner for a dead woman he doesn't know.


----------



## shit (May 31, 2012)

I never liked freeze

that hasn't changed

captain cold should kill him


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 31, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Wait, what?



Gotham Central had him stealing diamonds because he needed them to power his suit.

EDIT: This was just a cop saying this, so it could have just been crap, but there was no other reason presented for why Freeze stole millions in diamonds.

Aka they wanted to use freeze but couldn't come up with a good reason for him to commit a crime. 



gabzilla said:


> There are ways to make Freeze interesting without turning him into James Jr with a boner for a dead woman he doesn't know.



True, but how?

Considering that:
Freeze isn't evil or insane, he just wants to save his wife
Batman knows this, and also has nigh limitless resources

Why doesn't Bruce just fund his research and set him up with his own lab at arkham? Unless every plan to save nora involves endangering other people.

EDIT: I do agree that him killing his mom was stupid though. He can be obsessed and insane without being sociopathic.


----------



## gabzilla (May 31, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> True, but how?
> 
> Considering that:
> Freeze isn't evil or insane, he just wants to save his wife
> ...



- Kill his wife, have him go full villain
- His wife recovers and rejects him, he either goes full villain or anti-hero
- Have him do other things than trying to save his wife. Discovering cures for other diseases, go Punisher on Gotham, etc.

You don't need to erase his marriage to develop the character. Making him a crazy stalker is lazy and makes Snyder look like a one trick pony, since he did the same thing with James Jr. Who went from being a beacon of hope to sociopath killer because that's soooo edgy.

I mean, look at the Riddler, he was less sympathetic than Victor yet they made him a neutral force in several stories. Poison Ivy should be a one trick pony too, yet there are several writers that get her right. Look at what they did with Penguin, who went from being an idiot with a weapon umbrella to mob boss.


----------



## Petes12 (May 31, 2012)

when was james a beacon of hope, or anything other than the little kid batman rescued in year one?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 31, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> - Kill his wife, have him go full villain
> - His wife recovers and rejects him, he either goes full villain or anti-hero
> - Have him do other things than trying to save his wife. Discovering cures for other diseases, go Punisher on Gotham, etc.
> 
> ...



I like the obsession with a girl who was never truly alive bit more than her dying or being cured and rejecting him. 

But again, I don't think it was necessary to make him a sociopath, that was a bit one trickish. I'd prefer if he was just willing to do whatever is necessary (including murder/theft/etc.) to save Nora under the delusion that she loves him. 

But I guess the only thing that really bugs me (besides sociopathy) is that he has this whole set of false memories. Guess they couldn't have him somewhat remembering his pre flashpoint life.


----------



## gabzilla (May 31, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> when was james a beacon of hope, or anything other than the little kid batman rescued in year one?



As far as I remember, Year One hinted that Gotham is worth saving and used James as an example why.

To have the kid Batman saves turn into one of his villains is incredibly bleak. I know Batman is supposed to be the darker hero, but if you don't have some light at the end of the tunnel, why should I give a crap about Gotham being saved?



Whip Whirlwind said:


> I like the obsession with a girl who was never truly alive bit more than her dying or being cured and rejecting him.
> 
> But again, I don't think it was necessary to make him a sociopath, that was a bit one trickish. I'd prefer if he was just willing to do whatever is necessary (including murder/theft/etc.) to save Nora under the delusion that she loves him.
> 
> But I guess the only thing that really bugs me (besides sociopathy) is that he has this whole set of false memories. Guess they couldn't have him somewhat remembering his pre flashpoint life.



Meh, we already had the Mad Hatter to cover the delusional stalker slot.


----------



## Petes12 (May 31, 2012)

were you really emotionally invested in james representing everything good about gotham

mr freeze i get, but cmon james was just a character that was thrown away and snyder did something cool with him


----------



## Slice (May 31, 2012)

Did they really make Harleys origin into "Joker thought it was funny to throw her into the same chemical he was put into and make her a psychopath too"?


----------



## Emperor Joker (May 31, 2012)

Slice said:


> Did they really make Harleys origin into "Joker thought it was funny to throw her into the same chemical he was put into and make her a psychopath too"?



Yep. Suicide Squad sure made a interesting character completely boring didn't it


----------



## Slice (May 31, 2012)

It bugs me more that this implies that _anyone_ could have become the Joker as long as he was just a little crazy and thrown into that stuff.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 31, 2012)

Slice said:


> It bugs me more that this implies that _anyone_ could have become the Joker as long as he was just a little crazy and thrown into that stuff.



Most definitely this. Not only does it ruin Harley, but it cheapens Joker as well.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 31, 2012)

Agent said:


> Metaphor for needing money to keep his suit running, I think I hope.



Thats what I was hoping.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Gotham Central had him stealing diamonds because he needed them to power his suit.
> 
> EDIT: This was just a cop saying this, so it could have just been crap, but there was no other reason presented for why Freeze stole millions in diamonds.
> 
> Aka they wanted to use freeze but couldn't come up with a good reason for him to commit a crime.


Welp. Thats just silly.

... I seem to be saying that a lot for DC concepts of late.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 31, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Welp. Thats just silly.



They wanted Freeze so they could have the trial where Freeze gets sent to arkham and Driver flips out at the courtroom, and with most other villains that's a justifiable sentence. 

But really, Freeze was rarely used because he rarely had a legit reason to act villainous. 



> ... I seem to be saying that a lot for DC concepts of late.



Silly can work for DC. I dunno, there's definitely good silly and bad silly.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 31, 2012)

You know, I never paid attention to how often Freeze was used, but he's really only rarely used? He stands out as one of the classic Batvillains in my mind, so I just assumed he regularly popped up here and there.


----------



## typhoon72 (May 31, 2012)

I liked the changes to Freeze. Killing his mom was a bit OD, but the rest of it was _cool_. Its about the same as the other origin IMO.

They should make a subzero sequel with the new origin, it might actually be a good movie this time


----------



## Agent (Jun 1, 2012)

Subzero was a great movie. That kind of Freeze is what I'll always remember.

And Freeze was around but he was mostly playing secondary villains in stories like Heart of Hush, some Detective issues. I dunno but Paul Dini always made him work.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 1, 2012)

And I'm pretty sure he was the only one who ever really did.

My issue with Freeze as a villain is that he's intelligent and rational, much like Riddler and Penguin, so he'd be willing to negotiate if it meant he could research Nora and not get his ass kicked by Batman all the time.

And I don't see why (aside from plot) Bruce wouldn't step in and cut him a deal.


----------



## Agent (Jun 1, 2012)

Yeah what was strange was how they made Bruce the benefactor this time instead of some other CEO. Because of that, they had to make Freeze a less sympathetic character. But I think they could've gotten rid of Nora permanently, and then Freeze could've turned into a villain seeking revenge against Batman or others. That would give him at least a different angle but still be true to his colors. It's kind of like what they did with the Rhino when they revamped Spidey's villains. He'd settled down with a wife, but she got caught in crossfire and died; and Rhino then blamed Spidey for it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2012)

I've got mixed feelings on freeze. I think the new hook works, and works better for a villainous freeze, but maybe not as well as if nora had died and he lashed out in revenge.

But what I don't like is how it makes freeze more like so many other batman villains, totally deluded. 


also i guess alan scott is officially the mystery gay character


----------



## Slice (Jun 1, 2012)

'old' Mr Freeze works as a villain - once. Ok maybe twice.

By then there is simply no excuse to have him coming back with the same "i need to save my wife" story over and over again.

I havent read 'new' Freeze yet though since i put the bat books on hold for to read them back to back.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 1, 2012)

Robinson on Alan Scott being gay: 

Also, that image of Alan as Green Lantern.  He looks insane. :rofl


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm trying to figure out if people screaming like crazy is a thematic thing or what with Reis's covers. 

Also there is an owl right outside my window hooting, I can't sleep :|


----------



## Platinum (Jun 1, 2012)

So the rumors were right. I'm fine with it.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 1, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Also there is an owl right outside my window hooting, I can't sleep :|



OH SHIT, they're coming for you........


----------



## Glued (Jun 1, 2012)

> With that in mind, the only thing I was sad about in terms of a younger Justice League was that there wasn't going to be Jade and Obsidian ? Obsidian of course being Alan Scott's gay son. And just as one idea can foster the next, from there I went, "Why don't I just make Alan Scott gay?" And to Dan DiDio's credit, there wasn't a moments hesitation on that. He just said, "That's a great idea," and we went with it.



Really, that is it. That is all there is to it?

And secondly Mr. Robinson, you did not do the first gay kiss in comics. Grant Morrison did that with Doompatrol when the Brain took over Robot Man's body and then kissed Mallah

Also, I wonder what happens to retconned children like Flash's kids, Koryak (Aquaman's other son), Obsidian and Jade or Lian Harper.

Is there a special limbo for them or a seperate Earth?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 1, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> were you really emotionally invested in james representing everything good about gotham
> 
> mr freeze i get, but cmon james was just a character that was thrown away and snyder did something cool with him



No, but I'm emotionally invested in his father and I think he had enough (one wife killed, another one desfigured, daughter shot). Not to mention than in the reboot, he lived with him. Gordon not noticing his son is a sociopath makes him look like an idiot.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2012)

well he did notice... you read snyder's tec didn't you? everyone knew he was off. and were even scared of what he might do. but it'd be a really hard situation, and you wouldn't want to accuse your kid of anything if you didn't actually know, probably hope for the best, etc.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 1, 2012)

What exactly was the point of making Alan Scott gay?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 1, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Really, that is it. That is all there is to it?
> 
> And secondly Mr. Robinson, you did not do the first gay kiss in comics. Grant Morrison did that with Doompatrol when the Brain took over Robot Man's body and then kissed Mallah
> 
> ...



I won't speak for the others, but Obsidian and Jade can easily brought back as adopted kids.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2012)

does anyone want them back? also they'd be pretty young kids, alan looks like he's 30 or something now.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2012)

Lex Luthor said:


> What exactly was the point of making Alan Scott gay?



apparently robinson went 'oh we're erasing obsidian, a gay character. well, i'll just make alan gay then'.



Doom85 said:


> OH SHIT, they're coming for you........



death by sleep deprivation, oh god that's a canon tactic of theirs


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 1, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> does anyone want them back? also they'd be pretty young kids, alan looks like he's 30 or something now.



I'm probably in the minority, but yeah, I do. I'm a huge fan of Alan Scott and his cast.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 1, 2012)

^ 

I'm a fan as well. TBH, I just dislike when a character's sexual orientation is changed, despite previous relationships that might have contrasted that. I know this is a New 52, but it also means there will be no Jade or Obsidian.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 1, 2012)

I love Alan's kids, so I'm pissed about them being erased. But that happened because they de-aged him, not because they made him gay.

The only thing that I have against this is that Alan is nowhere near as iconic as other green lanterns. 

Let's be honest, Arisia and Kilowog are more iconic to the general public than Alan is. 



Petes12 said:


> well he did notice... you read snyder's tec didn't you? everyone knew he was off. and were even scared of what he might do. but it'd be a really hard situation, and you wouldn't want to accuse your kid of anything if you didn't actually know, probably hope for the best, etc.



Apparently, he didn't notice in this new timeline/reboot/whatever. As far as I remember, Jim Jr. went to live with her mother. Post Flashpoint she ran away after he killed a cat and threatened to kill Babs.


----------



## shit (Jun 1, 2012)

on /co/ they were discussing how they could fix harley quinn's character now that DC's ruined it
but then everyone just started fangasming over the idea of her as robin
just thought I'd share that


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 1, 2012)

There's no fixing her, not with the new origin they gave her


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Apparently, he didn't notice in this new timeline/reboot/whatever. As far as I remember, Jim Jr. went to live with her mother. Post Flashpoint she ran away after he killed a cat and threatened to kill Babs.



huh? wouldn't it be, they were all living together and bab's mom left the whole family because of him? which i dont think contradicts 'tec

and lol at harley. if she'd done it to herself out of her weird ass devotion to joker that'd have been one thing...


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 1, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> huh? wouldn't it be, they were all living together and bab's mom left the whole family because of him? which i dont think contradicts 'tec
> 
> and lol at harley. if she'd done it to herself out of her weird ass devotion to joker that'd have been one thing...



Didn't she leave with Jr in TEC? A little after he killed Babs' friend?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2012)

i dunno i guess i'd have to reread it


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 1, 2012)

What exactly did they do to Harley's origin?


----------



## shit (Jun 1, 2012)

I don't think it was ever confirmed he killed babs's friend


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 1, 2012)

Only thing I could find about it:

"Oracle has always been under the assumption that James Jr. murdered her friend because she saw James Jr. playing with her friend's house keys."

Not confirmed, but highly likely.



Lex Luthor said:


> What exactly did they do to Harley's origin?



Joker pushed her into the acid that made him who he is.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 1, 2012)

Catching up on my GLC today. Ganthet. Oh noes!!!


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 1, 2012)

I know, lobotomized :/


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 1, 2012)

I wonder how they'll have Sayd react to this.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 1, 2012)

Idk if GL New Guardians is actually bad book, or if it's the bad art that's making not like it. <_<


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm gonna get the tpb because of Saint Walker and because I love the rainbow corps.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 1, 2012)

Saint Walker but not because of Larfleeze? For shame.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 1, 2012)

I love them all.

But SW is my favourite.


----------



## Glued (Jun 1, 2012)

Lobo, The Main Man: Like some god ate a rainbow and vomited over the galaxy.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 2, 2012)

Has Red Lanterns been worth reading. I think the book is a stupid idea but since I have the hd space monies I figure I'd check it out if someone vouches for it.

*EDIT
I read issue 9 cause the cover looked interesting. That book is whack. =/


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 2, 2012)

I think its supposed to be good. I've heard people say its good and interesting.

I, however, couldn't hack it. I couldn't even finish the second issue. It might be one of those love/hate books, depending on the person.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 2, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> Has Red Lanterns been worth reading. I think the book is a stupid idea but since I have the hd space monies I figure I'd check it out if someone vouches for it.
> 
> *EDIT
> I read issue 9 cause the cover looked interesting. That book is whack. =/



Personally I think it's okay, it just doesn't really appeal to me. I still think this should have been a Maxi series of about nine to twelve issues instead of a ongoing


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 3, 2012)

so if you could get rid of lets say 4 or 5 new 52 books and replace them with a on-going of your choosing what would you pick and why? asking for the sake of discussion. I don't read enough comics to have a opinion on this but anything to get rid of batman the dark knight. I'd also read a wally west book, is there a booster gold on-going? if not I'd read that too.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 3, 2012)

Anyone that wouldn't get rid of the dark knight is someone I wouldn't want to associate with.


----------



## Penance (Jun 4, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> There are ways to make Freeze interesting without turning him into James Jr with a boner for a dead woman he doesn't know.



That's what Hatter's for...


----------



## shit (Jun 4, 2012)

just read the Freeze issue

not bad, it's definitely an improvement


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so if you could get rid of lets say 4 or 5 new 52 books and replace them with a on-going of your choosing what would you pick and why? asking for the sake of discussion. I don't read enough comics to have a opinion on this but anything to get rid of batman the dark knight. I'd also read a wally west book, is there a booster gold on-going? if not I'd read that too.



JLI (already cancelled) - > Booster Gold/Rip Hunter timecop series
The Dark Knight - > my dream tim/cass/steph (occasionally also Damian and Colin) team book
Detective Comics - > Same name, but now a rotating cast detective book (elongated man, slam bradley, detective chimp, jason bard, constantine,  etc. )

They're the only ones that jump out at me.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 4, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so if you could get rid of lets say 4 or 5 new 52 books and replace them with a on-going of your choosing what would you pick and why? asking for the sake of discussion. I don't read enough comics to have a opinion on this but anything to get rid of batman the dark knight. I'd also read a wally west book, is there a booster gold on-going? if not I'd read that too.



Anything Liefeld does
Batgirl
TDK
Suicide Squad

Replace any of them with this:





Whip Whirlwind said:


> Detective Comics - > Same name, but now a rotating cast detective book (elongated man, slam bradley, detective chimp, jason bard, constantine,  etc. )



I like this.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Replace any of them with this:



Yessir. Although I'd want Tim to be there too, so he can have a bat book presence. But not as lead, Tim should be the smart guy of the 5 man band, not the hero.

But Tomasi better bring Colin into B & R. Damian needs a friend his own age and Abuse is awesome. 



> I like this.



It's a great idea that DC will never do.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 4, 2012)

They won't do it because they won't trust it to sell as well as the current batman only version. It's a shame.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 4, 2012)

We could do with an anthology. It could just be 3 stories per issue or something. Short stories of the weird happenings happening in places not taken by the ongoings. Some cosmic or supernatural weirdness.

Man, we could do with a cosmic book. One that doesn't deal with the rainbow lanterns. I would like to see some funky reimaginings of the various alien races.



gabzilla said:


> Anything Liefeld does
> Batgirl
> TDK
> Suicide Squad
> ...



Who is the red head with the gold knuckles? Jason?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

It's sad how much selling power the 'TEC name + Batman as main character has. Regardless of artist, writer, story, etc. just THAT sells enough to justify (financially) it's existence.



Bergelmir said:


> We could do with an anthology. It could just be 3 stories per issue or something. Short stories of the weird happenings happening in places not taken by the ongoings. Some cosmic or supernatural weirdness.



DCU Presents could be that if:



> Man, we could do with a cosmic book. One that doesn't deal with the rainbow lanterns. I would like to see some funky reimaginings of the various alien races.



GL or GLC should be this. Really, my highest hopes for GL was that it would be Hal and Sinestro doing regular GL duties with various alien races.



> Who is the red head with the gold knuckles? Jason?



Abuse.

Little orphan kid who got shot up with some fusion of Venom and Strange's monster formula, saved by Batman, can turn into this at will:



He's pretty awesome.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 4, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> DCU Presents could be that if:


I do like that DC Presents jumps around with the spotlight characters. I'm thinking of something like a DC version of 2000AD though.




> GL or GLC should be this. Really, my highest hopes for GL was that it would be Hal and Sinestro doing regular GL duties with various alien races.


I actually thought GLC was going to be this at first with the super quick assassins, but they ended up being the Keepers, and then we hopped into Alpha Lanterns.(ugh. I really hate the Alphas)




> Abuse.
> 
> Little orphan kid who got shot up with some fusion of Venom and Strange's monster formula, saved by Batman, can turn into this at will:
> 
> ...


What book is he in? Dark Knight?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I actually thought GLC was going to be this at first with the super quick assassins, but they ended up being the Keepers, and then we hopped into Alpha Lanterns.(ugh. I really hate the Alphas)



I like the alphas as a concept (IA for spacecops), but they should just be a continuing presence / source of frustration, not an actual bad guy group.



> What book is he in? Dark Knight?



He was in Streets of Gotham, Dini / Nguyen's short lived series. He currently is MIA in the nu52, probably no longer exists.

He was a neat character but mostly worked as a friend for Damian, someone his own age who he could interact with as Robin.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 4, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Who is the red head with the gold knuckles? Jason?



He's a badass friend

Adorable too:





Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yessir. Although I'd want Tim to be there too, so he can have a bat book presence. But not as lead, Tim should be the smart guy of the 5 man band, not the hero.
> 
> But Tomasi better bring Colin into B & R. Damian needs a friend his own age and Abuse is awesome.



Tim can come too. 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> It's a great idea that DC will never do.



DC is anti fun. The animated series are doing a better job at portraying their characters.


----------



## Mael (Jun 4, 2012)

Looks more to me like DC's attempt at a Kid Hulk, ripped pants and all.  Bruce Banner is disappoint.


----------



## Spica (Jun 4, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> DC is anti fun. The animated series are doing a better job at portraying their characters.



Headcanon ftw. :ho


----------



## shit (Jun 4, 2012)

streets of gotham was so good

it's funny, they need that title more than ever these days to show wtf is going on now that everything's changed slightly yet drastically

in b4 clayface ate his parents and made himself the way he is b/c bruce funded the research


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Tim can come too.



Hooray! Steph would be team leader, although Tim would do strategy and what not. Tim would also consistently be ripped on by Steph and Damian 

Id love to see this book, but I'd be worried that DC would make Tim leader and main focus, which I wouldn't want.

Basically in TVtropes terms I'd want:

Hero: Steph
Lancer: Tim/Cass/Damian (depending on story)
Smart Guy: Tim
Big Guy: Cass / Colin
The Chick: Colin
Wildcard: Damian



> DC is anti fun. The animated series are doing a better job at portraying their characters.



Yeah, it's funny how close Young Justice is to my ideal DCU.


----------



## shit (Jun 4, 2012)

since when did people start respecting steph?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

aubro said:


> since when did people start respecting steph?



Batgirl probably.

Well, that's when Tim acknowledged her abilities, but he's always (when written decently) respected her. And Cass has always respected her. Bruce did enough that he told Cass to leave Batgirl to Steph. Damian rags on her, but I think he respects her at least a little bit.

/but I'd be okay with Tim leading, as long as Steph plays lancer (and ignores Tim frequently).


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 4, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Hooray! Steph would be team leader, although Tim would do strategy and what not. Tim would also consistently be ripped on by Steph and Damian
> 
> Id love to see this book, but I'd be worried that DC would make Tim leader and main focus, which I wouldn't want.
> 
> ...







Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yeah, it's funny how close Young Justice is to my ideal DCU.



I'm loving the Green Lantern series pek


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

gabzilla said:


>



You know that in any scenario where Tim, Damian, and/or steph were arguing, Colin would be the one telling everyone to calm down and be friends and stuff. And physically separate them (as abuse) if necessary.

I just get this mental picture of Damian being picked up by his cape and being told to be nice. 



> I'm loving the Green Lantern series pek



I've only seen the first few episodes, but it seems pretty good.


----------



## shit (Jun 4, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Bruce did enough that he told Cass to leave Batgirl to Steph.



did this make sense in the story or was it blatantly about didio preferring blonde batgirl


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 4, 2012)

Didio prefers redheads.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> You know that in any scenario where Tim, Damian, and/or steph were arguing, Colin would be the one telling everyone to calm down and be friends and stuff. And physically separate them (as abuse) if necessary.
> 
> I just get this mental picture of Damian being picked up by his cape and being told to be nice.







Whip Whirlwind said:


> I've only seen the first few episodes, but it seems pretty good.



It is awesome.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 4, 2012)

dicaprio was almost ridder in dark knight rises


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

Pretty much that with Abuse 

And Dicaprio as Riddler sounds awful.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 4, 2012)

really? i think he'd make a good riddler <.<


----------



## shit (Jun 4, 2012)

he's a fantastic actor

surprised he hasn't gotten an oscar

/totally serious


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> really? i think he'd make a good riddler <.<



I don't know, to me Riddler is supposed to be someone kind of pathetic. I mean he's a guy who's primary goal is to prove how much smarter he is than everybody. I can't really buy dicaprio as that guy.

If I were to put dicaprio in the nolan movies I see him as Black Mask before Riddler.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 4, 2012)

I think you can also do riddler as a pretty suave criminal with a lot of flair, and that i can buy dicaprio as.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I think you can also do riddler as a pretty suave criminal with a lot of flair, and that i can buy dicaprio as.



Maybe, but I've always seen that flair as posturing. But thinking of it that way makes me more open to the idea. I can see him being suave and what not and then breaking down when he loses.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 4, 2012)

And I'm not sure a really pathetic unthreatening villain would be great for one of nolan's movies heh


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> And I'm not sure a really pathetic unthreatening villain would be great for one of nolan's movies heh



Not pathetic in an unthreatening way, but more like pathetic in the way Zuckerburg kind of was in Social Network. Except where Zuck was this guy who at least wasn't trying to be a total ass, Riddler would be just a total ass acting out to get people to acknowledge him.

Pathetic in that he'd be intelligent and suave, but such a stuck up ass that nobody actually cares about what he says or does.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 4, 2012)

Mael said:


> Looks more to me like DC's attempt at a Kid Hulk, ripped pants and all.  Bruce Banner is disappoint.



Considering how Banner is now, he'd more likely capture and experiment on him, than he would be disapointed



Narutossss said:


> so if you could get rid of lets say 4 or 5 new 52 books and replace them with a on-going of your choosing what would you pick and why? asking for the sake of discussion. I don't read enough comics to have a opinion on this but anything to get rid of batman the dark knight. I'd also read a wally west book, is there a booster gold on-going? if not I'd read that too.



Hmm...

Ditch The Dark Knight. replace it with either Gotham Central, Streets of Gotham, or a team book featuring the lesser known Bat characters(Like Whip's idea but also include Man-Bat)

Ditch Suicide Squad - Bring back Secret Six

Ditch Ravagers - Replace with a Daily Planet book

Change the creative team on Teen Titans

Ditch Grifter and Voodoo, replace both of them with Planetary...have Frankenstein have occasional guest appearences

Ditch Savage Hawkman. replace with Doom Patrol or a Metel Men series with a Plastic Man backup

Ditch Deathstroke - replace with a Lobo ongoing.

Stop letting liefield write your books DC


----------



## Platinum (Jun 4, 2012)

David Tennant would make the best riddler.

Also I think you mean petty instead of pathetic.


----------



## shit (Jun 4, 2012)

> replace it with either Gotham Central, Streets of Gotham, or a team book featuring the lesser known Bat characters(Like Whip's idea but also include Man-Bat)


you mean 
*Spoiler*: __ 



batman inc?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 4, 2012)

aubro said:


> you mean
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Not really, I was thinking more along the route of Whirlwind's Idea (Tim, Cass, Steph, Damien etc...but also include other characters like Misfit) 

I was thinking more of a charlie's angels esque vibe, where Tim acts as mission control for some missions (for high key missions) while Steph leads the team.

But I doubt that's what Whirlwind had in mind


----------



## shit (Jun 4, 2012)

so

the teen bat titans


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Not really, I was thinking more along the route of Whirlwind's Idea (Tim, Cass, Steph, Damien etc...but also include other characters like Misfit)
> 
> I was thinking more of a charlie's angels esque vibe, where Tim acts as mission control for some missions (for high key missions) while Steph leads the team.
> 
> But I doubt that's what Whirlwind had in mind



I thought about that for a while, with Steph frequently embarassing Tim, but I'd rather Steph  be more in charge. She's more fun as a leader to me, and Tim works better as the batman (In team role, not personality) anyway.

But I dunno, I feel like a lot of people like these characters and aside from Damian they're just getting wasted.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 4, 2012)

aubro said:


> so
> 
> the teen bat titans



no because hopefully itd be good.


----------



## shit (Jun 4, 2012)

so

batman academy


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 4, 2012)

aubro said:


> so
> 
> batman academy



We're saying it'd be good, so not quite :ho


----------



## Glued (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm sick of Bats in the belfry.

I would cancel just one of them just to bring back my OMAC, I need more Kirbyness.

PS: Have Orion, Mister Miracle or Big Barda made their debuts yet.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2012)

No, but I feel like some form of a new gods book would be a possible third wave choice.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 5, 2012)

After 8 months where does Nu52 stand.


----------



## Mael (Jun 5, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Not pathetic in an unthreatening way, but more like pathetic in the way Zuckerburg kind of was in Social Network. Except where Zuck was this guy who at least wasn't trying to be a total ass, Riddler would be just a total ass acting out to get people to acknowledge him.
> 
> Pathetic in that he'd be intelligent and suave, but such a stuck up ass that nobody actually cares about what he says or does.



The Riddler at least would be socially conscious enough to know when to adequately price an IPO for a social network or whatever kind of stock he'd be shelling out.



Emperor Joker said:


> Considering how Banner is now, he'd more likely capture and experiment on him, than he would be disapointed



Then he'd smash...Hulk would smash puny bat people.  

*pays to see this after reading World War Hulk*



Ben Grimm said:


> I'm sick of Bats in the belfry.
> 
> I would cancel just one of them just to bring back my OMAC, I need more Kirbyness.
> 
> PS: Have Orion, Mister Miracle or Big Barda made their debuts yet.



Thank you.  I like Bruce and a bit of the family, but I'd prefer a dearth of spinoffs than an abundance.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 5, 2012)

I wish Batman Inc and JLI would just fuse into an international superhero comic. 

It should be called JLI and should not focus on Batman characters, just international superheroes. Perhaps Batman recruits them and is their tie to the main Justice League though. So just rename Batman Inc back to Justice League International, showing other non-batty heroes too. I'm sick of Batman titles just dominating. It's really putting me off Batman.

Why would you cancel JLI just to do Batman Inc? Couldn't they have found a new creative direction for JLI instead?


----------



## shit (Jun 5, 2012)

if it was called JLI then I wouldn't buy it


----------



## shit (Jun 5, 2012)

Taleran said:


> After 8 months where does Nu52 stand.



lol blackest night


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 5, 2012)

aubro said:


> if it was called JLI then I wouldn't buy it


Oh well.

Anyway, I would like if JLI featured international superheroes were to go on missions with the A.R.G.U.S agents. Kinda like an espionage superhero comic for not so well known heroes or non american ones atleast. Perhaps tying into S.H.A.D.E, Suicide Squad and Blackhawks.


----------



## shit (Jun 5, 2012)

if DC continuity connected more, I'd probably get more into them


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 5, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> I'm sick of Bats in the belfry.
> 
> I would cancel just one of them just to bring back my OMAC, I need more Kirbyness.



Batman: The Dark Knight, easily. From what I heard, it's the worst of the books starring Batman, and it's also the least necessary.

?FBatman: Self-titled solo book, and main series of the line.
? Detective Comics: A relaunch of Batman's book and DC's namesake. For those reasons, I think it can stay.
?FBatman and Robin: A partner book, so the inclusion of Damian adds a nice dynamic.
?FBatman: The Dark Knight: Last book of the four released, so by the time it had debuted, people had enough Batman books.

Even Batman Incorporated can stay, although I haven't heard of how it compares to Batman and Robin.


----------



## shit (Jun 5, 2012)

batman inc is penned by morrison

that's all you need to know that it's great


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 5, 2012)

Why isn't Aquaman reffered to as Orin anymore? Or has he?

Minor thing I guess, but I don't like his name being Arthur Curry. He should be King Orin.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 5, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> Why isn't Aquaman reffered to as Orin anymore? Or has he?
> 
> Minor thing I guess, but I don't like his name being Arthur Curry. He should be King Orin.



Orin stopped being his name around the time he got the magic water hand (though keep in mind Arthur Curry was his orignal name, Orin was something that didn't come til the Peter David run). shortly there after everything Peter David did for the character and his mythos was either swept under a rug or killed off


----------



## Cromer (Jun 5, 2012)

aubro said:


> if DC continuity connected more, I'd probably get more into them



The overweening connected continuity is what keeps DC on reboots. One mistake by a mediocre writer damn near breaks the edifice.


----------



## shit (Jun 5, 2012)

marvel seems to make it work for them, mediocre writers and all

but then again, marvel's been known for better writing while dc is known for better art


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 5, 2012)

aubro said:


> batman inc is penned by morrison
> 
> that's all you need to know that it's great



Action Comics is basic and, a lot of the time, ungood.


----------



## shit (Jun 5, 2012)

oh, I didn't know he was writing that one

I'll be sure to collect the back issues asap


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 5, 2012)

The Springsteen-like Superman stuff Morrison went on and on about is basically dropped after only a couple of issues, and what's there is barely a complete, coherent thought and isn't all that interesting.  I was really looking forward to it too.  

/sigh


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 5, 2012)

Is Detective Comics worth picking up? I'm loving the hell out of the main Batman book, and will pick up Batman and Robin since I haven't read much with Damien, and that would have been enough main-Bat books (not counting Batfamily books) but the Batman #9 bit* leaving out the Arkham Asylum bit made me curious what went down in Detective Comics. 

But people on the ComicBookResources forum often list it as one of the worst books (not as bad as Dark Knight though), but then again I think a good deal of those people are still bitter about the reboot and are determined to hate any series that's isn't absolutely excellent so I take what they say with a grain of salt.

*I almost always read trades and not issues, but after reading the first volume of Batman someone had left issues 8 and 9 in my workplace's breakroom so I went ahead and read them

Also, which prior-new 52 Bat arcs do I need to read (if any) before reading the new Batman Inc. series to understand what's going on? Thanks!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 6, 2012)

Don't read detective comics (unless it's the pre52 snyder arc), Do read pre52 batman inc and the batman inc: leviathan strikes one shot. Really you should just read all of Morrison's bat work. 

But I agree (wait,what?) with ghst when it comes to action comics. I mean I don't mind what Grant's doing in action, since it's what I expected before I saw the springsteen design, but it would have been cool to see him really run with that instead of jumping around like he has.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 6, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Really you should just read all of Morrison's bat work.



Roger that.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2012)

aubro said:


> marvel seems to make it work for them, mediocre writers and all
> 
> but then again, marvel's been known for better writing while dc is known for better art



haha what better art? right now, maybe. pre-reboot not a chance


----------



## Penance (Jun 6, 2012)

aubro said:


> marvel seems to make it work for them, mediocre writers and all
> 
> but then again,* marvel's been known for better writing* while dc is known for better art



...Five pieces of Phoenix Force=Mutants with Attitude...


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2012)

robinson continuing a proud tradition of fridging green lantern lovers.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 6, 2012)

The before watchmen reckoning has arrived .


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2012)

So... interesting. The second issue of World's Finest is much better than the first. Maybe its the art in the flashback sequences. I'm not even annoyed by Kara's weird face and costume.

Also, I guess Alan's GL ring is going to be the engagement ring? I like the idea, although fridging the boyfriend in the first appearance was kinda crap.


----------



## creative (Jun 7, 2012)

just bumping because I just read issue four of animal man. it screams "HP lovecraft's nightmares - the graphic novel". wanna know if anyone else is deeply terrified and happy for this comic. and has animal man's daughter always been this creepy?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2012)

Not sure, but yeah animal man is awesome. So was swamp thing.

Also really liked Earth 2, but yeah fridging of the bf in issue 1 is....yeah. Liked Action quite a bit too, the inclusion of the justice league was pretty neat.


----------



## shit (Jun 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> haha what better art? right now, maybe. pre-reboot not a chance


well I meant traditionally
I read it in Wizard years ago so it must be true 


Penance said:


> ...Five pieces of Phoenix Force=Mutants with Attitude...



people sure do let one panel influence their entire perception of a publisher sometimes...


----------



## shit (Jun 7, 2012)

in other news I just dropped detective and animal man and picked up batman inc and nightwing

I know animal man is awesome and all, but it's really just too hardcore for me
seems better to pick it up in trades, cuz as it is I dread reading the next issues cuz the art is so (purposely) revolting


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2012)

aubro said:


> in other news I just *dropped detective* and animal man and picked up batman inc and nightwing
> 
> I know animal man is awesome and all, but it's really just too hardcore for me
> seems better to pick it up in trades, cuz as it is I dread reading the next issues cuz the art is so (purposely) revolting



Son, I am disappoint.

/not because you dropped detective, but because you were picking it up in the first place and NOT picking up Nightwing.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2012)

Oh Beast Boy, what have they done to you?


----------



## Mael (Jun 7, 2012)

Well at least he's not fanboying over mopeds.


----------



## Slice (Jun 7, 2012)

What is it with changing every second heroes color to red?


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 7, 2012)

Is he even green still?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2012)

No, he's a red lantern now.



Slice said:


> What is it with changing every second heroes color to red?



DC has a deal with Coca Cola.


----------



## Slice (Jun 7, 2012)

YJ design > this


----------



## Mael (Jun 7, 2012)

Lex Luthor said:


> Is he even green still?



At least with Marvel they had the good graces to make both a green and a red with the Hulk. 

This is...odd...oh well.


----------



## Slice (Jun 7, 2012)

Mael said:


> At least with Marvel they had the good graces to make both a green and a red with the Hulk.
> 
> This is...odd...oh well.



The words "good", "red" and "hulk" do not belong on one sentence. Except when the sentence is "Its good they finally got rid of the red hulk forever and never even mentioned he existed".


----------



## Mael (Jun 7, 2012)

Slice said:


> The words "good", "red" and "hulk" do not belong on one sentence. Except when the sentence is "Its good they finally got rid of the red hulk forever and never even mentioned he existed".



Yes I acknowledge Red Hulk was a lolwut but again...I meant to say at least they made the color change separate as compared to...well this.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2012)

Slice said:


> YJ design > this



YJ universe > all of this


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> YJ universe > all of this



I agree, but at the same time Beast Boy being red makes sense if they're (and they are) connecting him to the Red.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I agree, but at the same time Beast Boy being red makes sense if they're (and they are) connecting him to the Red.



Now see I wouldn't mind it if they did that. however I don't have much faith in Ravagers, especially when Beast Boy is prone to berserker rages and is completely stale and boring


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 7, 2012)

Well, I'm certainly glad Beast Boy isn't with the Titans right now, there would be way too much red on their team by that point. But yeah, it's not just the color change, if they're turning Beast Boy into some "edgy, troubled" type (based on that picture), fuck that noise, that's not Beast Boy in the slightest. God what's next, bring Raven in and make her outfit pink and her personality into a "happy-go-lucky" type?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 7, 2012)

man I'm glad I'm not a Titans fan.  It seems post '89 that it's just a miserable existence with a few shinning moments that are far and few in between.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2012)

Parallax said:


> man I'm glad I'm not a Titans fan.  It seems post '89 that it's just a miserable existence with a few shinning moments that are far and few in between.



Pretty much, yeah. Same with being a fan of the YJ4 (who are now Titans and as a result, suck.)


----------



## Platinum (Jun 7, 2012)

They already said they made him red to connect him to the red so yeah that's the reason for the color change.


----------



## Slice (Jun 7, 2012)

I didn't know that, with the connection to the red that makes sense.


----------



## shit (Jun 7, 2012)

Slice said:


> The words "good", "red" and "hulk" do not belong on one sentence. Except when the sentence is "Its good they finally got rid of the red hulk forever and never even mentioned he existed".



jeff parker does a good job with red hulk's ongoing


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2012)

forget his color what is wrong with his face. and his body. and his everything. AND THOSE PANTS 

i think its time for another DC reboot


----------



## Slice (Jun 7, 2012)

In cover artworks like this i usually look past that. But then, i grew up with 90s comics.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I agree, but at the same time Beast Boy being red makes sense if they're (and they are) connecting him to the Red.



It's not just the color. His expression, his clothes... that looks like Kid Devil, not Beast Boy.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2012)

i dont remember kid devil being overly 90s grouchy or whatever.


----------



## Whimsy (Jun 7, 2012)

Those pants are the worst part 

He looks ready to deliver a raping


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> It's not just the color. His expression, his clothes... that looks like Kid Devil, not Beast Boy.



Have you read the book? I was gonna say maybe that's just the cover, but yeah...

The pants are most likely a leftover from the trontastic (and awful) culling storyline, where everyone had that type of clothes on for....some reason.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2012)

Whimsy said:


> Those pants are the worst part
> 
> He looks ready to deliver a raping



He just received one


----------



## Whimsy (Jun 7, 2012)

With those pants, it'd be entirely consensual


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Have you read the book? I was gonna say maybe that's just the cover, but yeah...
> 
> The pants are most likely a leftover from the trontastic (and awful) culling storyline, where everyone had that type of clothes on for....some reason.



If it's anything like the rest of the Young Justice line, expect him to be 100% grittier.

Like everybody else.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> If it's anything like the rest of the Young Justice line, expect him to be 100% grittier.
> 
> Like everybody else.



DC baffles me so much with the young justice line. First of all how godawful terrible it is. But mainly, how they didn't just try to be as much like season 2 of young justice as possible. 

With minor tweaks to fit the current bat status quo it would be perfect. They say they want to appeal to new readers, but when the time comes where they have a perfect opportunity to do so they just let it go by.

I mean, an opportunity comes by where the comics are getting a reboot and the primary DC animated series is getting a time skip / huge status quo shift, and NOBODY thinks to try to line these up? Ridiculous.


----------



## Rukia (Jun 7, 2012)

I find myself fascinated by World's Finest.  Am I the only person enjoying this so far?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> DC baffles me so much with the young justice line. First of all how godawful terrible it is. But mainly, how they didn't just try to be as much like season 2 of young justice as possible.
> 
> With minor tweaks to fit the current bat status quo it would be perfect. *They say they want to appeal to new readers*, but when the time comes where they have a perfect opportunity to do so they just let it go by.
> 
> I mean, an opportunity comes by where the comics are getting a reboot and the primary DC animated series is getting a time skip / huge status quo shift, and NOBODY thinks to try to line these up? Ridiculous.



That has always been a load of bullshit, let's be honest.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Oh Beast Boy, what have they done to you?



Not that surprising, all things considered. I mean, this is Extreme Youngblood Titans we're talking about(I assume he'll be in the TT book).


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Not that surprising, all things considered. I mean, this is Extreme Youngblood Titans we're talking about(I assume he'll be in the TT book).



Ravagers actually. the book where Terra, and Caitlan Fairchild got shunted off to after The Culling along with the latest rendition of Thunder and Lightning.

Warblade from WildC.A.T.s is there to as a villain and god do I hate his redesign


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2012)

Ah, gotcha.

Although, from what I understand of Ravagers. Its basically the Thunderbolts version of Teen Titans, aka bad guys trying to do good... so again, this new Beast Boy fits.

But then, I've never really like Beast Boy all that much. So I'm mostly apathetic towards this.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Ah, gotcha.
> 
> Although, from what I understand of Ravagers. Its basically the Thunderbolts version of Teen Titans, aka bad guys trying to do good... so again, this new Beast Boy fits.
> 
> But then, I've never really like Beast Boy all that much. So I'm mostly apathetic towards this.



The only member of the team who was a baddie previously was Ridge as far as I know. and even then he face turned during the Culling which was a month after he debuted 

also Thunderbolts is a good book, Ravagers not so much


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2012)

I thought the Ravager people were all ruthless killers due to the pits they were in? So the underlying concept still fits, yeah? Granted, I didn't really read the issues, so I might have missed what they actually are.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I thought the Ravager people were all ruthless killers due to the pits they were in? So the underlying concept still fits, yeah? Granted, I didn't really read the issues, so I might have missed what they actually are.



I thought they were all being trained to be ruthless killers in Harvest's meta version of the Hunger Games. I mean keep in mind they did up and nab all the Legion Lost cast and strand them there too

course maybe I wasn't paying that much attention...I did kinda zone out when they killed off Artemis in the issue she debuted in


----------



## Zen-aku (Jun 7, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> also Thunderbolts is a good book,



Not any more it isn't


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> I thought they were all being trained to be ruthless killers in Harvest's meta version of the Hunger Games. I mean keep in mind they did up and nab all the Legion Lost cast and strand them there too
> 
> course maybe I wasn't paying that much attention...I* did kinda zone out when they killed off Artemis in the issue she debuted in*




Oh, that was hilarious.  I was all, "Oh hey, its Artem- wat?"

Thankfully, TT has stopped crossing over with Superboy, so I don't have to slog through that drivel anymore. Although, I may drop Superboy as well...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Not any more it isn't



Eh Dark Avengers was okay...I don't think the title change will last for long, just until they get Moonstone and the rest of the time jumping crew back.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Oh, that was hilarious.  I was all, "Oh hey, its Artem- wat?"
> 
> Thankfully, TT has stopped crossing over with Superboy, so I don't have to slog through that drivel anymore. Although, I may drop Superboy as well...



that annoyed the hell out of me, I was honestly expecting them to kill off a couple members of the Legion and Warblade too for the event, but they surprised me there

I was only really still picking up Superboy, because I thought the rest of the Gen13 and Dv8 cast might be introduced there.

Then Grunge came in and promptly got killed off...and now i'm dropping Superboy now that The Culling is over


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2012)

Wait, Grunge is dead? I thought he was knocked out/passed out from blood loss and implants being mucked with.

I really liked Superboy's initial issues, so I'm going to wait an issue or two to see if the quality picks up. But seeing as nearly all the elements of those initial issue are gone now, I'm not that hopeful.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Wait, Grunge is dead? I thought he was knocked out/passed out from blood loss and implants being mucked with.
> 
> I really liked Superboy's initial issues, so I'm going to wait an issue or two to see if the quality picks up. But seeing as nearly all the elements of those initial issue are gone now, I'm not that hopeful.



I thought Superboy killed him...he sure acted like he did.

Yeah his first several issues showed promise but then it just went down the drain like all of the Young Justice line titles


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2012)

At least Blue Beetle is readable, if mediocre. And Legion Lost is okay, I guess.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> At least Blue Beetle is readable, if mediocre. And Legion Lost is okay, I guess.



I can agree on Beetle it bounces back in forth between mediocre and decent in my mind.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2012)

Well, on another note, did anyone read Damon Lindelof's Legends of the Dark Knight? I thought it was interesting. It doesn't fit with the current depiction of Batman, but its a nice short out-of-continuity piece. Alfred gets pretty dark here.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> I can agree on Beetle it bounces back in forth between mediocre and decent in my mind.



Blue Beetle just needs to stop taking itself so seriously. Basically, be more like the last blue beetle series.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 8, 2012)

> In September, DC Entertainment will publish a zero issue for its 52 titles, a move that co-publishers Jim Lee and Dan DiDio said this week will help explain the origins and effects of its rebooted characters a year after it erased decades of history and continuity to start everything from scratch.



Well that is one of the worst choices ever.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2012)

Taleran said:


> Well that is one of the worst choices ever.





You're tearing me apart DC!


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2012)

Geez, even after they just erased their continuity, DC still obsesses with its continuity.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2012)

And they're doing a Talon series, about some talon who escaped from the court.

I like night of the owls, I really do, but this is ridiculous.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> And they're doing a Talon series, about some talon who escaped from the court.
> 
> I like night of the owls, I really do, but this is ridiculous.



It sounds like it will be just as pointless as The Dark Knight...also Oh goodie yet another bat book.

on the other hand I might just pick up the new Phantom Stranger


----------



## Mael (Jun 8, 2012)

I just realized...Dan DiDio did writing for Reboot.

Then I see this...the DC reboot.

*is confus*


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 8, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> And they're doing a Talon series, about some talon who escaped from the court.
> 
> I like night of the owls, I really do, but this is ridiculous.



Indeed, I'm really enjoying the story arc, but not enough to make me actually interested in reading solely about some random dude who left the villains.

It's inevitable that The Dark Knight stick around since, like all main Batbooks, it sells very well despite its lack of quality, but does DC actually expect a Talon book to sell?

In terms of the new series, Talon is a no, Phantom Stranger is a likely yes, Team Seven is a maybe, and I'll have to hear more about Sword of Sorcery before I know how I feel about it.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2012)

So apparently Team Seven will be set five years ago, just like Action Comics is.


----------



## Mael (Jun 8, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So apparently *Team Seven* will be set five years ago, just like Action Comics is.



You had me confused for a bit there...heh. 

That shouldn't be so bad though...good ol' military boys.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2012)

Mael said:


> You had me confused for a bit there...heh.
> 
> That shouldn't be so bad though...good ol' military boys.



If it means Grifter and Deathstroke get shitcanned because of it, i'm all for this new title...hopefully it will be better than both of them

I think along with The Phantom Stranger, I might end up getting the Amethyst book as well


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> If it means Grifter and Deathstroke get shitcanned because of it, i'm all for this new title...hopefully it will be better than both of them
> 
> I think along with The Phantom Stranger, I might end up getting the Amethyst book as well



According to Bleeding Cool, Team Seven has Justin Jordan on writing and Jesus Merino on art. Thats an instant get for me. Thats bound to be awesome unless hampered editorially.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> According to Bleeding Cool, Team Seven has Justin Jordan on writing and Jesus Merino on art. Thats an instant get for me. Thats bound to be awesome unless hampered editorially.



Oh right I had forgotten Jordan did Strange Talent of Luther Strode...Loooks like I might just pick that up as well for the first issue


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> According to Bleeding Cool, Team Seven has Justin Jordan on writing and Jesus Merino on art. Thats an instant get for me. Thats bound to be awesome unless hampered editorially.



Really all the other books seem fine. This talon book just really grinds my gears though, especially considering that even if they felt the need for ANOTHER bat book, they could do something besides more freaking owls. *COUGH*TIMSTEPHCASS*COUGH*


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

eh whatever. only one of those 4 i'm sort of interested in is the amethyst one, i like me some high fantasy.

talon i'll wait and hear if its really something special but gates of gotham was coplotted by snyder too and it was only ok.


but I like the 0 issue idea so fuck you all


----------



## Platinum (Jun 8, 2012)

I'll get the talon book and see if it's any good and the phantom stragner one.

Also 0 issues seem okay to me i'm not going to complain.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

I'll say this for talon: it's the first of the 'new 52' books to star a character/concept that's actually _new_


----------



## Platinum (Jun 8, 2012)

At least they are trying new shit at least yeah.

They are diversifying somewhat.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2012)

that's the most backhanded compliment given on this topic

and that's saying something :|


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

its tough to say anything nicer about Talon. Have you seen the cover?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2012)

Nope.  I haven't seen anything about the new titles


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> its tough to say anything nicer about Talon. Have you seen the cover?



Yeah, I love how of all the various talon designs we've seen, the absolute worst of the bunch is the one we'll be seeing post NoTO.

And I like them doing new things, but this is just trying to milk the owls crossover once it ends. But I'm curious how far they can take take the court of owls before it's just a gotham based League of Assassins.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2012)

pek


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

Parallax said:


> Nope.  I haven't seen anything about the new titles


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2012)

It looks like his arms are behind his back.

EDIT: This is actually really bothering me. I keep trying to look at it in a way that doesn't make his arms look anatomically correct but I just end up getting mad.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2012)

I can't wait till it gets cancelled


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 8, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> pek



Please tell me this is something that can at least be real.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Please tell me this is something that can at least be real.



oh it is

She's one of the four new series being released in september...Sword of Sorcery I think her series is going to called.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Well cool.

I'm more interested in this than I was with I, Vampire and its Not Jae Lee.


----------



## Stringer (Jun 8, 2012)

She looks quite interesting... any idea of her powers?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2012)

Unshaken Faith said:


> She looks quite interesting... any idea of her powers?




She's a sorceress. Comicvine says she's the most powereful magic user on Gemworld only rivaled by Mordru

never actually read any of her series before, but i'm going to pick it up


----------



## Stringer (Jun 8, 2012)

I see, thanks. 

Yeah same here.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2012)

an interview with the writer

DC universe: no kids, no old people, no marriages (unless the big heads like you)


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 8, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> You're tearing me apart DC!



Everyone betray me! I fed up with this worl.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> And they're doing a Talon series, about some talon who escaped from the court.
> 
> I like night of the owls, I really do, but this is ridiculous.



I'm actually interested in the series. However, it sounds like the Batman equivalent of The Ravagers. I will admit that I do not like the costume.



Emperor Joker said:


> It sounds like it will be just as pointless as The Dark Knight...also Oh goodie yet another bat book.



Supposedly they're going to go past 52 titles, but I would be okay if Talon replaced The Dark Knight.

I'm interested in Sword and Sorcery, but not so much for The Phantom Stranger. Team Seven just reminds me of Cry For Justice, and ignoring that, it's just not my kind of thing. I can't say that it will be bad, but it's just not for me.



gabzilla said:


> an interview with the writer
> 
> DC universe: no kids, no old people, no marriages (unless the big heads like you)



Is Animal Man the only exception to that? Alan Scott being gay is stupid because they wanted to make him young, which means no Jade or Obsidian, so they decided to just throw Obsidian sexuality onto Alan.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2012)

Phantom Roxas said:


> Is Animal Man the only exception to that? Alan Scott being gay is stupid because they wanted to make him young, which means no Jade or Obsidian, so they decided to just throw Obsidian sexuality onto Alan.



As far as I remember, there are only 2 married couples in the new 52 books: Aquaman and Animal Man.

Lois and Clark: gone as long as the current editor is in the title
Wally and Linda: who knows. Their kids are likely gone
Barry and Iris: retconned. At least she still exists.
Mr. Miracle and Big Barda: dead, they didn't bring them back
The Dibnys: still dead
Jay and Joan: retconned

I'm sure I'm forgetting some


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2012)

Phantom Roxas said:


> Everyone betray me! I fed up with this worl.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Aquaman still has Mera and he's like the only other one if you don't count Swamp Thing


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

again with the marriage shit


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> again with the marriage shit


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2012)

your new avy sucks petes


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

:/ **


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

but its ridiculous


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> but its ridiculous



we read comics about people fighting crime in tights


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

point taken haha

wow you really are enjoying that GL series huh


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

for real though, watch superman vs the elite guys. really good.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Jun 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> for real though, watch superman vs the elite guys. really good.



I just did damn they did the comic justice, not only is this the best Superman movie to date bar none. I am hoping  the Flash movie live up to the mantle.(still in the works).

Man the message this movie delivers is amazing.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> point taken haha
> 
> wow you really are enjoying that GL series huh



It's a fantastic show 



Petes12 said:


> for real though, watch superman vs the elite guys. really good.



Heard good things about it. I'll see if I can find a download link.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> As far as I remember, there are only 2 married couples in the new 52 books: Aquaman and Animal Man.
> 
> Lois and Clark: gone as long as the current editor is in the title
> Wally and Linda: who knows. Their kids are likely gone
> ...



They're dead? Are the rest of the New Gods dead too? I thought they were just putting off their reintroduction of the Fourth World. But if they're dead... damn.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> for real though, watch superman vs the elite guys. really good.



Will do. 



gabzilla said:


> *It's a fantastic show *
> 
> 
> 
> Heard good things about it. I'll see if I can find a download link.



Agreed. god it better be renewed for a second season.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> They're dead? Are the rest of the New Gods dead too? I thought they were just putting off their reintroduction of the Fourth World. But if they're dead... damn.



all the new gods died before FC

of course, with the reboot totally upending the fourth world mythology, those characters could all very easily come back. 

i liked the second miracleman though.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 8, 2012)

Didn't Didio say Final Crisis never happened? So I figured the New Gods weren't dead anymore, since their War in Heaven was the prelude to Final Crisis.

But okay, that comment was due to Final Crisis. So its still up in the air. Cool.


----------



## Glued (Jun 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> for real though, watch superman vs the elite guys. really good.



Agreed, Superman vs the Elite is just so awesome.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Agreed. god it better be renewed for a second season.



13 more episodes are being released in September/October pek



Bergelmir said:


> They're dead? Are the rest of the New Gods dead too? I thought they were just putting off their reintroduction of the Fourth World. But if they're dead... damn.



Apparently, yes


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2012)

first season's already over? wasn't it only like 9 episodes in?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Didn't Didio say Final Crisis never happened? So I figured the New Gods weren't dead anymore, since their War in Heaven was the prelude to Final Crisis.
> 
> But okay, that comment was due to Final Crisis. So its still up in the air. Cool.



yeah but they havent reappeared or anything. except apokalyps, which is now in like another dimension. maybe when Johns eventually revisits darkseid in JL he'll bring in a new version of new genesis (new new genesis?)


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 9, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> It's a fantastic show



I've been meaning to watch the whole show, and what little I saw of it has made me into an Razer/Aya shipper as well. I was shipping them as soon as Razer joined up with the Green Lanterns.



Danger Doom said:


> I just did damn they did the comic justice, not only is this the best Superman movie to date bar none. I am hoping  the Flash movie live up to the mantle.(still in the works).
> 
> Man the message this movie delivers is amazing.



Isn't the Flash movie supposed to be Flashpoint? I'm curious how that will turn out.



Petes12 said:


> yeah but they havent reappeared or anything. except apokalyps, which is now in like another dimension. maybe when Johns eventually revisits darkseid in JL he'll bring in a new version of new genesis (new new genesis?)



At this rate, I'd expect it to be spelt Nu Genesis


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2012)

Phantom Roxas said:


> I've been meaning to watch the whole show, and what little I saw of it has made me into an Razer/Aya shipper as well. I was shipping them as soon as Razer joined up with the Green Lanterns.



Do iiiit

You can't say no to this face





Petes12 said:


> first season's already over? wasn't it only like 9 episodes in?



13, actually

The second part of the season (another 13) will air in September/October


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 9, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Do iiiit
> 
> You can't say no to this face



He's a Blue Lantern. That alone makes him worth watching.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 9, 2012)

Phantom Roxas said:


> He's a Blue Lantern. That alone makes him worth watching.



best corps


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 11, 2012)

The best episode of Lost ever:


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 11, 2012)

Hilarious stuff.  I was a little irked by yet another person not understanding it was the flash-sideways and not the main timeline that was purgatory, but then I checked the site and saw that he never watched LOST so no foul.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 11, 2012)

So, Joe Chill is coming in September...why oh why couldn't this be in a good book DC. why did this have to be The Dark Knight

and we're returning to the Killing Joke apparently in Batgirl


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 11, 2012)

Ugh, yeah Dark Knight revisiting Joe Chill makes me nervous.

And as much as I normally gripe about it, Batgirl 0 going back to killing joke makes sense. I just hope it's not too heavy, which I guess is impossible given the subject.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 11, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Ugh, yeah Dark Knight revisiting Joe Chill makes me nervous.
> 
> And as much as I normally gripe about it, Batgirl 0 going back to killing joke makes sense. I just hope it's not too heavy, which I guess is impossible given the subject.



It's just that I don't really have much faith left in Batgirl to be honest. Simone is just not writing at her best.

also Captain Atom is getting axed according to Bleeding Cool...shame I actually liked that book.

...and DC Universe Presents gives us, Hawk & Dove, OMAC, Blackhawks and Mr. Terrific...but not Static or Men of War

Edit: Captain Marvel on Justice League #0 does not look like he's going to save people. that's the face of somebody whose going to rip your face off and and then bend you over

...and Resurrection Man gets the axe as well.


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm curious why they didn't include Static or Men of War in DC Universe Presents. However, the solicit mentioned five stories, but only listed those four. I'm sure that if Static was supposed to be featured, they would have mentioned him. It's also a bit disappointing that they haven't mentioned anything about Justice League International.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

Ah poor Resurrection Man. 

Men of War or Static really should make it over shit like Blackhawks and Hawk and Dove .


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 11, 2012)

..and looking at DC's Edge solicits, Voodoo is getting the fourth axe...not really surprised there



Platinum said:


> Ah poor Resurrection Man.
> 
> Men of War or Static really should make it over shit like Blackhawks and Hawk and Dove .



It's a shame too, as I would have loved one more Men of War story


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm really surprised voodoo lasted as long as it did.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So, Joe Chill is coming in September...why oh why couldn't this be in a good book DC. why did this have to be The Dark Knight
> 
> and we're returning to the Killing Joke apparently in Batgirl



the book is being written by the penguin mini writer now, so it might be good.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

So wait there's an arab green lantern now?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2012)

and superman hit him with a tree like a battering ram in his first appearance


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

I wonder which GL book he will be shoved into .


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 11, 2012)

Platinum said:


> So wait there's an arab green lantern now?


Was this revealed in one of the Lantern books or just an announcement?

EDIT: Ok I saw the image.It's odd he's shownon the 0# issue too. Meaning he maybe has been around before Hal Jordan or soon after.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So, Joe Chill is coming in September...why oh why couldn't this be in a good book DC. why did this have to be The Dark Knight
> 
> and we're returning to the Killing Joke apparently in Batgirl



TKJ never left


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

Either he's been around that long or they are using it as an origin issue. I'm betting on the latter.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2012)

> TEEN TITANS #0
> 
> Written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> 
> ...



**


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 11, 2012)

> Teen Titans 0 solicit





gabzilla said:


> **


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2012)

Think about the bright side

He was probably an olympic ice skater.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

Oh dear .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 11, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Think about the bright side
> 
> He was probably an olympic ice skater.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2012)

It would explain the feathers.

Now I'm glad Cass and Steph are in limbo-


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 11, 2012)

I find I don't care.

DC made me a fan by making me care about its characters and now it has unmade them I don't care.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Think about the bright side
> 
> He was probably an olympic ice skater.



would explain the costume

edit: dammit gab D:


----------



## Parallax (Jun 11, 2012)

hahah this is great

Great I tells you


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2012)

lobdell taking over superman 

that title needed a new team that had a real sense of direction. but they put lobdell on it... the guy who makes it up as he goes every issue


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm past the point of getting angry. Laughing at it is healthier.



Petes12 said:


> would explain the costume
> 
> edit: dammit gab D:


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2012)

I just don't understand how there was no talent left for teen titans and they had to get lobdell for it.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 11, 2012)

cause nobody cares about Teen Titans Petes


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

Can someone give me a link to where these summaries are?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2012)

i thought DC cared

not sure why, it's never been good. but then i thought they might turn over a new leaf, like they did with justice league


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Can someone give me a link to where these summaries are?


----------



## Slice (Jun 11, 2012)

I tried to care about TT.
I stopped at issue 3.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 11, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Can someone give me a link to where these summaries are?


DC Comics.com seems like a good place to start.

Bleedingcool, Comicvine and Comicbookresources may have it too. Any comic book info site really.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 11, 2012)

Slice said:


> I tried to care about TT.
> I stopped at issue 3.



Same here, but I can't quit Tim Drake enough to not care when this garbage happens. It's really like their game plan with Tim for the last 10 years has been to make him as unoriginal and generic as possible. Depending on this 0 issue I might just stop caring, at least until they put out a solo that's an actual bat book.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

TT is just painfully mediocre at best.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2012)

The art, though


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2012)

my favorite part of booth's art is seeing him try to draw kid flash running


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

I hope they use the Under The Red Hood origin for Jason.


----------



## Nidaime Mizukage (Jun 11, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I hope they use the Under The Red Hood origin for Jason.



I'm sad to see Rocafort leave to superman, wonder who's going to be on for #13.

As for the origin, looking forward to it. Roy's going to be in Green Arrow #0, so might have to pick that one up as well.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

> DEATHSTROKE #0
> Written by ROB LIEFELD
> Art and cover by ROB LIEFELD
> On sale SEPTEMBER 12 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
> ...



Wonder who it will be.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 11, 2012)

I think the #0 issues sound pretty intresting. I would be more inclined to buy all of the #0 issues, or a collection of them all, rather than the #1's.


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 11, 2012)

DiDio said he was planning on releasing a compilation of the zero issues in December, so I might just wait for that, depending on how much it costs.


----------



## Penance (Jun 11, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Ah poor Resurrection Man.
> 
> Men of War or Static really should make it over shit like Blackhawks and Hawk and Dove .





Emperor Joker said:


> ..and looking at DC's Edge solicits, Voodoo is getting the fourth axe...not really surprised there
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shame too, as I would have loved one more Men of War story



Crying fucking shame....


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 11, 2012)

Nidaime Mizukage said:


> I'm sad to see Rocafort leave to superman, wonder who's going to be on for #13.
> 
> As for the origin, looking forward to it. Roy's going to be in Green Arrow #0, so might have to pick that one up as well.



Wait, he's leaving Red Hood for superman? FUCK.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Jun 11, 2012)

To be quite honest while TT is subpar I enjoy the new characters they introduced so far.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 11, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Wait, he's leaving Red Hood for superman? FUCK.



I don't think he's leaving red hood.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2012)

How many books is he writing already?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2012)

lobdell's got 3, maybe 4 with superman unless he's leaving one? but we were talking about rocafort i thought.  i'd be happy to see him on superman, if it were with a different writer.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2012)

lol'd at shazam's expression. i can imagine this is realistically how a kid would react to finding out he has insane super powers


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 12, 2012)

Oh wow. That rape face. Just... wow.

I would have expected this to be J'onn's issue, but Cap is great too.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 12, 2012)

I hate what they are doing with Shazam and Billy


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2012)

I don't tbh. I mean it's hilariously over the top how johns goes out of his way to make billy kind of a dick to everyone, but you can see that the purpose is to have a character arc with him


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 12, 2012)

Meh, already tired of bratty jerks. Can we have one hero that is not a dipshit? If anybody should be a nice happy kid, it should be Billy.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 12, 2012)

I don't get the lobdell/rocafort team. It's like the opposite of Gillen/Land.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Meh, already tired of bratty jerks. Can we have one hero that is not a dipshit? If anybody should be a nice happy kid, it should be Billy.



flash i guess?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 12, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Meh, already tired of bratty jerks. Can we have one hero that is not a dipshit? If anybody should be a nice happy kid, it should be Billy.



Except we've seen at least once the jerk thing is just a front that he puts up do to all the foster homes he's been sent to. He does feel bad after he makes the little girl cry and does stick up for his new family after the wannabe Malfoys started bullying them


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 12, 2012)

Another jerk with a heart of gold.

*yawn*


----------



## shit (Jun 12, 2012)

I see you like your characters one dimensional over two dimensional


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Another jerk with a heart of gold.
> 
> *yawn*


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 12, 2012)

Actually, making the zero issue about Captain Marvel- Oh, I'm sorry, _Shazam_ makes perfect sense. The backups in that book have been setting up the overarching plot of the New 52, and it's heavily tied to Captain Marvel Shazam's mythology.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 12, 2012)

aubro said:


> I see you like your characters one dimensional over two dimensional



This Billy being two dimensional 

No, I'm tired of the dark and gritty.


Bad comparison. Razer is the only jerk with a heart of gold in gltas. The trope becomes fucking boring when everybody is a jerkface. And almost everybody in this new JL is one.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Bad comparison. Razer is the only jerk with a heart of gold in gltas. The trope becomes fucking boring when everybody is a jerkface. And almost everybody in this new JL is one.



haha that's pretty weak, shazam's it's own separate story. and no one really acts like a jerk anymore except hal


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> haha that's pretty weak, shazam's it's own separate story. and no one really acts like a jerk anymore except hal



And JerkHal is best Hal.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 12, 2012)

Yeah, I don't see how the Justice League are jerks to anybody unless their names are Oliver Queen.  But I loved that issue, since A) it was funny to have Green Arrow always showing up and driving the League bonkers, and B) it really made me like this version of Ollie since he wants to show the world he's a better person now but they won't give him the time of day and that's a good way to quickly get the audience on that character's side. Considering I've heard Green Arrow's own series in the New 52 is one of the weakest of any of the rebooted titles, I'm glad he turned out pretty good in this series at least even if it was for only one appearance at least for now.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> haha that's pretty weak, shazam's it's own separate story. and no one really acts like a jerk anymore except hal



Superman is a jerk, Hal is a jerk, Batman is always a jerk.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 12, 2012)

Bats and supes aren't really jerks anymore. But yeah that origin story made everybody but wondy, barry, and cyborg out to be jerks.


----------



## shit (Jun 12, 2012)

better than everyone being a gary stu


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2012)

aubro said:


> better than everyone being a gary stu



pretty much

it was kind of annoying but yeah it beats superfriends anyday


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 12, 2012)




----------



## Slice (Jun 12, 2012)

Hal works best when he acts like Han Solo.

Batman should be a jerk to everyone except his closest allies.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> lol'd at shazam's expression. i can imagine this is realistically how a kid would react to finding out he has insane super powers





Bergelmir said:


> Oh wow. That rape face. Just... wow.



Ever since I saw someone say that's how Charlie Sheen sees himself when coked up, I can't unsee it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 12, 2012)

Slice said:


> Hal works best when he acts like Han Solo.



Pretty much. 



> Batman should be a jerk to everyone except his closest allies.


This is also true, but Batman should also be that friend who occasionally crosses the line. The kind of friend who when asked about a problem, will tell the person exactly how to solve their problem, even if by doing so they end up telling the person something they didn't want to hear.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 12, 2012)

saw the preview for superboy, the face he had at the beginning


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 12, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> saw the preview for superboy, the face he had at the beginning



If this were any other book, the Riddler would be on that island somewhere


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2012)

So apparently tomorrow's batman is revealing the mastermind behind the court of owls, and people have been guessing for a while who it might be? News to me. Only guy I can think of is that March guy


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Jun 13, 2012)

Two quick questions: Does Phil Jimenez still work for DC and if so, is he currently doing anything in the new DCU?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 13, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> If this were any other book, the Riddler would be on that island somewhere



I still think it might be Riddler. He hasn't been seen since the reboot, right?

Also, they took Silva off the book? I'm going to miss his art.



EDIT:





In Brightest Day! said:


> Two quick questions: Does Phil Jimenez still work for DC and if so, is he currently doing anything in the new DCU?


Isn't he on Fairest?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> So apparently tomorrow's batman is revealing the mastermind behind the court of owls, and people have been guessing for a while who it might be? News to me. Only guy I can think of is that March guy



It's Damian's dog


----------



## Glued (Jun 13, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Except we've seen at least once the jerk thing is just a front that he puts up do to all the foster homes he's been sent to. He does feel bad after he makes the little girl cry and does stick up for his new family after the wannabe Malfoys started bullying them



Shazam chose Billy, because he messed up with Black Adam.

Adam was vulnerable to 7 enemies of man. Greed, lust, wrath, pride, gluttony, Ben Grimm, envy, vanity and sloth.

If this new Billy is the best the wizard could come up with, then he must be drunk.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2012)

or, you know, that's not why he chose billy anymore


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> It's Damian's dog



D: not the dog!


----------



## Glued (Jun 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> or, you know, that's not why he chose billy anymore



Why did he choose Billy?


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 13, 2012)

Does the Wizard even exist anymore? Shazam's magic comes from the 7 gods of magic we saw in FCBD Justice League issue, right? And from that issue, they look like an bunch of arrogant twats. I'm expecting them to make terrible choices like the Guardians.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 13, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I still think it might be Riddler. He hasn't been seen since the reboot, right?



The Riddler was amongst the group of criminals fighting Batman and Nightwing (dressed up as Robin) at the beginning of the first issue of the main Batman book. Not sure if he's showed up elsewhere.


----------



## Glued (Jun 13, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Does the Wizard even exist anymore? Shazam's magic comes from the 7 gods of magic we saw in FCBD Justice League issue, right? And from that issue, they look like an bunch of arrogant twats. I'm expecting them to make terrible choices like the Guardians.



Wait, if there is no wizard, then where are his kids, Satannus and Blaze. If Blaze doesn't exist, who the hell is running Hell and Purgatory?


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 13, 2012)

^

Probably Neron.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 13, 2012)

Doom85 said:


> The Riddler was amongst the group of criminals fighting Batman and Nightwing (dressed up as Robin) at the beginning of the first issue of the main Batman book. Not sure if he's showed up elsewhere.



Gotcha. Thinking about it now, though, unless Riddler now has some massive superpowers, there's not much he can do again Superboy and Wonder Girl. So he's a bit out of place there.

Meh.



Ben Grimm said:


> Wait, if there is no wizard, then where are his kids, Satannus and Blaze. If Blaze doesn't exist, who the hell is running Hell and Purgatory?



Seeing as the hierarchy of magic has been restructured, the same could be for Heaven and Hell. I mean, its a reboot. Things change. No biggie.

Also, Satannus and Blaze can exist as the rulers of Hell without being the Wizard's kids.


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## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Wait, if there is no wizard, then where are his kids, Satannus and Blaze. If Blaze doesn't exist, who the hell is running Hell and Purgatory?



WW's Hades 



Petes12 said:


> D: not the dog!



I've always been suspicious of that dog.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Why did he choose Billy?



how would i know he hasn't even chosen billy yet

and we briefly saw someone who seemed to be the wizard in the first shazam backup


----------



## Mael (Jun 13, 2012)

Sam Keith doesn't do artwork for DC anymore does he?

I've been rereading The Maxx and also remember a bitchin' art he did of Batman:


I'd like to see reboot artwork from him.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Mael said:


> Sam Keith doesn't do artwork for DC anymore does he?
> 
> I've been rereading The Maxx and also remember a bitchin' art he did of Batman:
> 
> ...



Batman's chest logo bat has its whole family sleeping under its wings.

But yeah he's a great artist.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2012)

Oh God the spoilers for Batman 10


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2012)

shh gab don't ruin it for me or make me go into it all negatively :|

too late for the latter i guess


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2012)

People are gonna be so mad.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2012)

i can't see myself being mad unless its alfred or tim drake, something awful like that. and that'd still beat olympic skater tim drake


----------



## Parallax (Jun 13, 2012)

fuck it Gabs spoil it

just put the spoiler tags


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



It's Thomas Wayne Jr. 

Bruce had a baby brother


----------



## Parallax (Jun 13, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



man

that's just 

upsetting

and stupid


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2012)

Are you questioning Snyder's genius?


----------



## Mael (Jun 13, 2012)

God I can't wait for the newest Flash.

Batman getting derped up but I'm oddly not that upset.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2012)

I just read it.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I actually wondered at the start of all this court of owls stuff if it would be setting up an owl man. I was right I guess! I was also right about undead lincoln march!

Also, while snyder did leave a few hints, it seems slightly out of left-field. Probably because, you'd think bruce having a brother would be something he'd remember... But I don't really have a problem with it


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't buy that Alfred never told him.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2012)

that might be why snyder wrote the backup showing alfred wasn't always bruce's butler.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 13, 2012)

My brain is now broken. The annual was one thing, acceptable if not exciting, but this...ugh.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 13, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> that might be why snyder wrote the backup showing alfred wasn't always bruce's butler.



Kinda weird Alfred never figured it out.

I mean, come on, it's _Alfred_.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 13, 2012)

so I read superboy 10 and then I walked into a bar


----------



## The Big G (Jun 13, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> so I read superboy 10 and then I walked into a bar



Tsundere Wonder Girl is awesome and so is Perv Kon 



Also Damian kicking Tim off his high horse was awesome


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 13, 2012)

The Big G said:


> Tsundere Wonder Girl is awesome and so is Perv Kon



the book had me rolling, this the most fun I had on superboy since the book started, it was like a love letter to the shippers, but it was so fun to read, that even if you didn't ship, you'll most likely still enjoy it.


 I also read resurrection man, now I gotta say I'm really upset at DC cancelling it, but the book is pretty good, this last issue had an amazing art, and I loved the development


EDIT: and before I forget Batdog


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 13, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> the book had me rolling, this the most fun I had on superboy since the book started, it was like a love letter to the shippers, but it was so fun to read, that even if you didn't ship, you'll most likely still enjoy it.
> 
> 
> I also read resurrection man, now I gotta say I'm really upset at DC cancelling it, but the book is pretty good, this last issue had an amazing art, and I loved the development
> ...



So what your saying is...is that I dropped Superboy right when it was getting good again?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 13, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> So what your saying is...is that I dropped Superboy right when it was getting good again?



well yeah, I normally don't recommend books but I recommend this one.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 13, 2012)

Wow yeah Superboy 10 was pretty fun.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2012)

i am intrigued and downloading superboy 10


----------



## The Big G (Jun 13, 2012)

Superboy #10 makes me ship Kon & Cass all over again


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 14, 2012)

So Green Lantern is great this week.

The Hal and Sinestro dynamic is cracking me up. They bicker among themselves, but behind the other's back, both of them believe in each other.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2012)

Well yeah, they were friends once. Then Sinestro's megalomania got in the way.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

Yeah GL was good. I just wish it was Hal and Sinestro being space cops instead of Hal and Sinestro consistently dealing with the *insert color* lanterns. 

Batman was good, but im curious about next month.




The Big G said:


> Also Damian kicking Tim off his high horse was awesome



EDIT: It was nice, but seeing Tim use the bo staff was even nicer.

Although nothing tops "I was a bit rambunctious"


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

I know they are gonna make Sinestro evil eventually. I'm gonna miss their buddy adventures.


----------



## shit (Jun 14, 2012)

maybe they won't
marvel seems to be having success face-turning magneto and loki
dc following suit wouldn't be a bad idea


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

Admittedly as much as I hate the idea of the guardians being legit bad guys, the idea of Hal and Sinestro showing them what's what is pretty cool.

And yeah I'm all for good(ish) guy Sinestro.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

And more Hal/Sinestro


----------



## Glued (Jun 14, 2012)

Shit just messed up, its like having Red Skull on the Avengers.

Sinestro does not belong on the corps.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

Dmain getting the shit kicked out of him?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh

Shame all the fangirls on Tumblr are dissing Tim instead : /


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

im not expecting the sinestro thing to last past whatever happens with the guardians


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Dmain getting the shit kicked out of him?
> 
> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh
> 
> Shame all the fangirls on Tumblr are dissing Tim instead : /



Both are being dicks.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Both are being dicks.



Compared to Damian Tim is the second coming of Jesus.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

Oh please.


----------



## The Big G (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Compared to Damian Tim is the second coming of Jesus.





Jason is Jesus, he's already returned from the grave.

also Damian > Tim 



gabzilla said:


> Oh please.



Tell him Gabz!


----------



## shit (Jun 14, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Shit just messed up, its like having Red Skull on the Avengers.
> 
> Sinestro does not belong on the corps.



maybe I haven't seen enough, but I haven't seen anything even remotely that would put sinestro on par with red skull in evilness

they're on par with each other as far as militarism, but when green lanterns kill at will these days, who's to say being militant doesn't go hand in hand with the corps

and with the reboot, are we even sure we know sinestro's history anymore


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Oh please.





Remind me, how many times has Tim tried to kill Damian?



The Big G said:


> Jason is Jesus, he's already returned from the grave.
> 
> also Damian > Tim


----------



## The Big G (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm not going to lie the facial expressions on Dick, Jason and Tim's faces were flawless


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

I seriously have no idea why people were bitching about the art in this issue.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I seriously have no idea why people were bitching about the art in this issue.



In before Flashpoint warped Steph there


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm not gonna lie to you I'mma steal this from you



The Big G said:


> I'm not going to lie the facial expressions on Dick, Jason and Tim's faces were flawless



they were


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

I have been so emotionally brutalised by DC I'm not going to get my hopes up...



...






*Squee*

That said I will pimp this like fuck if only to get DC to notice the spike in sales... which they will probably attribute entirely to Batman...

Eh...


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2012)

Meh, I can't afford any more comics that are not Swamp Thing, Animal Man, JLD or Wonder Woman. I've had to drop everything else and read the old-fashioned (i.e. downloaded) way.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

MY BABY IS BACK

Also, I'd pay for an ongoing of Damian trolling Tim.

Sorry TPN


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

They're only 99cents

Are you really that broke? D:


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> MY BABY IS BACK
> 
> Also, I'd pay for an ongoing of Damian trolling Tim.
> 
> Sorry TPN



No problem, by buying B&R I _am_ paying for an ongoing where Damian gets the shit kicked out of him every other issue.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

tim has a pretty good reason to hold a grudge gab. damian strolled in, tried to kill him, and succeeded in taking his codename and replace him as bruce's son.

tim's the only one who believes bruce might be dead, and he might be crazy but gets no support either way. bruce comes back and decides damian should stay robin and also buys him a dog, tim goes off to squat in luthor towers and hang out with skitter

its not a pretty picture for tim


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> tim has a pretty good reason to hold a grudge gab. damian strolled in, tried to kill him, and succeeded in taking his codename and replace him as bruce's son.



Not to mention provoking and harassing him everytime they meet. Literally every time.

I remember the first issue of Red Robin where he pointly calls Tim Drake like he's not really Bruce's son. The Tim hits him.

*Then Alfred applaudes Tim for hitting him*

Even Alfred thinks he needs a good smack


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> No problem, by buying B&R I _am_ paying for an ongoing where Damian gets the shit kicked out of him every other issue.



Never gonna happen 



Petes12 said:


> tim has a pretty good reason to hold a grudge gab. damian strolled in, tried to kill him, and succeeded in taking his codename and replace him as bruce's son.



That's why I said both are being dicks. Damian is not an innocent lamb, he's a little shit.

But who cares steph is back as nightwing and not in the new 52 so they can't screw her. I must celebrate.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

difference is tim has a good reason to be a dick

ironically dick is the only one being nice


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

also, that's nice but i don't think anything can make me pick up a smallville comic


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> tim has a pretty good reason to hold a grudge gab. damian strolled in, tried to kill him, and succeeded in taking his codename and replace him as bruce's son.
> 
> tim's the only one who believes bruce might be dead, and he might be crazy but gets no support either way. bruce comes back and decides damian should stay robin and also buys him a dog, tim goes off to squat in luthor towers and hang out with skitter
> 
> its not a pretty picture for tim



Pretty much, I mean sure the kid's got issues but attempted murder isn't something you just shrug off. 

I have a stepbrother. We get along great. Would we still get along if he tried to kill me the first time we met?

No. No we would not.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> difference is tim has a good reason to be a dick
> 
> ironically dick is the only one being nice



tim lost me when he made that stupid hit list and didn't include any of his friends

hypocrite


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> tim lost me when he made that stupid hit list and didn't include any of his friends
> 
> hypocrite



his hit list for putting people in jail? because that's what they all do, they all put people in jail. only damian kills people and steals dads. that's not hypocritical


----------



## shit (Jun 14, 2012)

damian was just being a good little assassin

if damian had been super srs about killing tim, I think he would've


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

aubro said:


> damian was just being a good little assassin
> 
> if damian had been super srs about killing tim, I think he would've



Ha please.

But the art was great here, I definitely plan on using that umwhat face Tim has for an avy.

And  in most cases Damian will look better than Tim, but that's just circumstances. One is a character on the rise who's only been written by good/great writers, and the other is....Tim Drake.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> his hit list for putting people in jail? because that's what they all do, they all put people in jail. only damian kills people and steals dads. that's not hypocritical



The hit list he created in Red Robin. Of dangerous superheroes/vigilantes.

He included the ten year old assassin but none of his more dangerous friends.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

he doesn't have more dangerous friends


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> The hit list he created in Red Robin. Of dangerous superheroes/vigilantes.
> 
> He included the ten year old assassin but none of his more dangerous friends.



Nicieza's whole run was decent at best and garbage at worst. That particular storyline falls under garbage.

@Petes: Superboy is pretty dangerous, especially with his history of getting jacked by Lex Luthor.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

number of people killed by superboy?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

Just saying, a bunch of heroes were on that list, not all of them having killed before. Not going to defend it though because it was a poorly written storyline.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> he doesn't have more dangerous friends



Practically all of Tim's friends are more dangerous than Damian.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Nicieza's whole run was decent at best and garbage at worst. That particular storyline falls under garbage.
> 
> @Petes: Superboy is pretty dangerous, especially with his history of getting jacked by Lex Luthor.



The only highlight was Tim asking his friends to save people.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> tim lost me when he made that stupid hit list and didn't include any of his friends
> 
> hypocrite



First off that was a private list. Damian only saw it because he spent hours hacking it. It's the difference between yelling to someone's face they're a twat and just thinking it in their head. The former is just rude but anyone is allowed to do the second.

Second, Damian is hardly in bad company. Most of the leading lights of the JLA are on there including Superman, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. I'd list Green Arrow except he did become a killer and was put in jail about this time.

Third, why on earth would he put his friends on there? He knows them deeply and personally, knows they wouldn't turn against him, or at least couldn't live with himself. He hasn't put Dick in either, or Batman. Maybe if he was putting people in based on risk he should add Alfred? Afterall Alfred knows everything about him, maintains his equipment and delivers him his food. Very dangerous...

Forth, Dick approves. He doesn't say "Delete it" he says "Change the password"

Fifth, what is Damian's reaction? He attacks (In an ambush while Tim is trying to capture villains) Tim and tries to either cripple or kill him. For putting him on a list of dangerous people he was never meant to see.

Sixth, the list is for dangerous people. *Damian tried to kill him and had killed other people before.* Even Bruce wondered if Damian could be led away from killing.

Seventh, none of Tim's friends? Kara is on there, right at the top. 

Eighth, he's an active member of the Teen Titans and leader of the group. It's not as if he doesn't already keep tabs on them.

Ninth, you think this makes Tim m ore of a jerk than Damian? Or make you like him less than Damian? Now that's hypocricy. Since they have met:


Damian tried to kill him, almost died, was rescued by Tim, then tried to kill Tim again and left him broken and bleeding on the Batcave floor to die. Tim required emergency surgery.
Attacked Tim a second time because of this stupid hitlist, attempt again to either kill him or cripple him
Constantly call him Drake and points out that Tim isn't Bruce's biological son and tries to push Tim out of the family

Now may I remind you at the point Damian first starts doing this Tim has lost _four _ parents, Conner, Bart and only recently recovered Steph. Let us see what being adopted by Bruce meant to Tim:


*Spoiler*: __ 








Is there a single page where Damian mourned Bruce's apparent death? He only got upset when he though Bruce might be coming back. Tim meanwhile scoured the world looking for clues on the offchance he might not have died.

Now if you lost almost everyone you care about, got a new family, lost a lot of them too and then some dick turned up, tried to kill you, badly injured you, showed no remorse or contrition *and then tried to push you out of your new family,* how would you feel about them?

Tenth, hey, guess what *TIM WAS RIGHT*

Damian killed someone just two issues ago in B&R. Steph got fired for much less than that. In Red Robin 26 Bruce gave Tim more of a stink eye over _thinking_ about killing Captain Boomerang. 

And finally, if you took every even slightly jerkish or petty thing Tim has done to Damian all together i*t still wouldn't add up to Damian trying to murder Tim on their first meeting*, nevermind the fact he never appologise or shows remorse for it. That's without including all of Damian shitheadedness since or the two other times he started a fight with Tim.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

aubro said:


> damian was just being a good little assassin
> 
> if damian had been super srs about killing tim, I think he would've



Ha, no.

He abushes Tim, Tim avoid it, easily handles the follow up attack then Damian's dumb ass almost falls into the T-Rex's mouth and Tim has to save him, then he sucker punches Tim and leaves him to die.

Did I mentioned Bruce only got back in time to save him because Damian went out and found him then let slip what he'd done?

(He also beat up Alfred and locked him in a cupboard, another dick move).

In their two fights since then Tim has crushed him.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> The only highlight was Tim asking his friends to save people.



Ha that was Yost

And yeah TPN pretty much nails my opinion on Tim and Damian. But I also ignore the hit list because it sucked and isn't something that Tim would do.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2012)

Tim Drake fans getting srs bizness up in this bitch.


For what it's worth, I think Tim has been mostly justified in his interactions with Damian. That won't make me like Tim more, that's just a fact.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 14, 2012)

Ahahaha that Batman and Robin issue was so good.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Tim Drake fans getting srs bizness up in this bitch.



Tim's my favorite character in comics, but I accept that Damian is going to come off as the better character more often than not simply because he's had nothing but great writers.

Aside from Yost Tim has had mediocre/bad writers for the past like....8 years? And editorial has pretty much gone out of their way to make him as generic a character as possible.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Tim's my favorite character in comics, but I accept that Damian is going to come off as the better character more often than not simply because he's had nothing but great writers.
> 
> Aside from Yost Tim has had mediocre/bad writers for the past like....8 years? And editorial has pretty much gone out of their way to make him as generic a character as possible.



Morrison writes him well too.

I dislike how Damian pushes out other character, most notably Tim, both inside the story and outside the in the DCU as a whole.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> They're only 99cents
> 
> Are you really that broke? D:



Horribly so.


Even six months ago I was spending the equivalent of $300-$340 a month on bloody comics. Can't handle that right now, need to man up to my responsibilities (and the fact that  we intend to get married within the next three years doesn't help)


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Tim's my favorite character in comics,  but I accept that Damian is going to come off as the better character  more often than not simply because he's had nothing but great writers.
> 
> Aside from Yost Tim has had mediocre/bad writers for the past like....8  years? *And editorial has pretty much gone out of their way to make him  as generic a character as possible.*



No, it's worse. They don't even give a shit anymore.



The Pink Ninja said:


> Morrison writes him well too.
> 
> I dislike how Damian pushes out other character, most notably Tim, both inside the story and outside the in the DCU as a whole.



It's hard to write Damian well while keeping a firm hold on him within the plot. And I think editorial is thoroughly lost on what to do with Tim Drake.


----------



## Slice (Jun 14, 2012)

Has this been posted before?



Apparently they put Steph in the Smallville spin off comic - as Nightwing.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2012)

Two pages ago/Last page.


I'd love to provide some money towards the Smallville comic just for that; alas! broke was I ere I saw Ekorombe (the pun doesn't quite work)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Morrison writes him well too.



Morrison writes everybody well, but outside of the first 2 arcs of Batman he hasn't really written him that much, so I don't count him.



> I dislike how Damian pushes out other character, most notably Tim, both inside the story and outside the in the DCU as a whole.



I don't blame Damian. Not his fault editorial mangled Tim and put him on a book not at all in line with his character.



Cromer said:


> No, it's worse. They don't even give a shit anymore. And I think editorial is thoroughly lost on what to do with Tim Drake.



Well yeah, they screwed him up to the point where they have no idea what to do, when really they should just reboot him to:

He was robin, then became red robin after bruce died.
Dad and stepmom are still around
Has an extended supporting cast of: Steph, Cass, Ives, Ives's gf (whose name I can't remember), Tam Fox, Dick, and Damian.


Put that Tim on a book that actually plays up his skill set (something more espionage/detective based and he'd be fine.

Oh and that costume. GOOD GOD, that costume.


----------



## shit (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Ha, no.
> 
> He abushes Tim, Tim avoid it, easily handles the follow up attack then Damian's dumb ass almost falls into the T-Rex's mouth and Tim has to save him, then he sucker punches Tim and leaves him to die.
> 
> ...



>left him alive
>tells batman what he did which results in tim being saved

ok yeah, he sounds SPR SRS alright

and all I remember about the follow up fight was tim getting chewed the fuck out by alfred for his actions and then alfred doting on damien

and we should also consider that tim is like 6 years older than damien


----------



## shit (Jun 14, 2012)

tpn, I'm not trying to argue that damien's not a jerk or that tim is a jerk

just want to curtail that follow up essay


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

i question whether tim really works post-robin tbh


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

aubro said:


> tpn, I'm not trying to argue that damien's not a jerk or that tim is a jerk
> 
> just want to curtail that follow up essay



No need for an essay. If you actually read that issue and don't think Damian was trying his damndest to kill Tim you're tripping balls.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> First off that was a private list. Damian only saw it because he spent hours hacking it. It's the difference between yelling to someone's face they're a twat and just thinking it in their head. The former is just rude but anyone is allowed to do the second.
> 
> Second, Damian is hardly in bad company. Most of the leading lights of the JLA are on there including Superman, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. I'd list Green Arrow except he did become a killer and was put in jail about this time.
> 
> ...



Ok ok I get it, you hate Damian. I don't care about this enough to debate it. 




Slice said:


> Has this been posted before?
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently they put Steph in the Smallville spin off comic - as Nightwing.



I'm so happy. pek


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2012)

aubro said:


> >left him alive
> >tells batman what he did which results in tim being saved
> 
> ok yeah, he sounds SPR SRS alright
> ...



The first follow up confrontation in Yost's arc was cool, where Damian tries to attack Tim (because Tim is basically coming out of nowhere and giving them orders, when he was recently a little...off) and Tim counters, but only to get his attention and make it clear that with the Ra's stuff going on it wasn't the time.

The one after that (written by Nicieza) is basically, Damian tries to attack Tim because of the hit list thing and Tim pounds the ever living crap out of him. So that he'll respect him more?



Petes12 said:


> i question whether tim really works post-robin tbh



Why is that? I'd say in his original form (batman meets spider-man, supporting cast in and out of tights, more about detective work and recon than straight up fighting) he could still work with the right creative team.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Ok ok I get it, you hate Damian. I don't care about this enough to debate it.



I don't hate Damian, merely his coddeling by fanatics.


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 14, 2012)

I just realized that with the launch of Talon, the Batman group will take up exactly one quarter of the main books. Thoughts?


----------



## Platinum (Jun 14, 2012)

It's not like one more book makes the difference, everyone already knows DC is heavily bat saturated.


----------



## Glued (Jun 14, 2012)

Phantom Roxas said:


> I just realized that with the launch of Talon, the Batman group will take up exactly one quarter of the main books. Thoughts?



It proves all those moronic Marvel Zombies on Youtube are right about bullshit that DC heroes aside from Batman have no depth or that Batman IZ ZOINKS DA GREATEST HERO EVA.

On the other hand, having less books and cameos can be a good thing. It reduces the number of cross overs and allows the writer to focus on whats going on.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

fuck Talon, we need a Cass ongoing



The Pink Ninja said:


> I don't hate Damian, merely his coddeling by fanatics.



ok


----------



## Platinum (Jun 14, 2012)

Batman isn't the focus of most bat books though.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> fuck Talon, we need a Cass ongoing



Never happen

The question is who can she be a supporting character for.


----------



## Glued (Jun 14, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Batman isn't the focus of most bat books though.



Hey it's his world everyone else is just a derivative.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

You know I say it I do find it fairly perverse that Talon gets an ongoing while Cass, DC's most demanded character, is still mist and vapor after what, six years of "Big plans"?


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 14, 2012)

y'know what dc should bring back steph so they can cripple the bitch and then bench her again


----------



## Glued (Jun 14, 2012)

Megatron: History has been rewritten Optimus Primal, yes. The Autobots lose. The Decepticons win and Cassandra Cain NO LONGER EXISTS!!!


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> You know I say it I do find it fairly perverse that Talon gets an ongoing while Cass, DC's most demanded character, is still mist and vapor after what, six years of "Big plans"?



Didio hates Cass



Narutossss said:


> y'know what dc should bring back steph so they can cripple the bitch and then bench her again



They are not _that_ stupid.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Megatron: History has been rewritten Optimus Primal, yes. The Autobots lose. The Decepticons win and Cassandra Cain NO LONGER EXISTS!!!



A summary of the career of Adam Beechem.

Or for those of you too young to remember him, Scott Lobdell.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 14, 2012)

by 2020 there'd be at least 20 robins/ 12 batgirls/5 batwomen come and gone and bruce would still be 35 somehow.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2012)

AND IT WILL ALL MAKE SENSE SOMEHOW!!! /kickingreasontocurb>


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 14, 2012)

You guys can have Cass, I want to know where Wally is.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm sure dan didio knows where the wallman is.


----------



## Glued (Jun 14, 2012)

Wally is in Limbo.

I just got excited, with this new reboot, does that mean King Solovar of Gorilla city lives once more.

All hail the the King.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 14, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Wally is in Limbo.
> 
> I just got excited, with this new reboot, does that mean King Solovar of Gorilla city lives once more.
> 
> All hail the the King.



Nope Grodd is. Unless the sages/priests whatever the old gorillas were called staged a coup at the end of the last Flash issue

can't remember what happened at the end


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

Phantom Roxas said:


> You guys can have Cass, I want to know where Wally is.



Wally has appeared in literally hundreds of comics and only stopped appearing a year ago. Even then he's still a Star in Young Justice and will be back in the next big crossover event in another year, tops.

Cass has appeared in, at most, a hundred comics and has dissappeared off the face of the fucking earth for the past six years.

Suck it up.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 14, 2012)

who's steph again?, I can't bring myself to remember. 
edit: oh shit you were talking about cass... see I don't give enough fucks to even care which bat girl you're bitching about today TPN.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 14, 2012)

Hell, Cassandra hasn't even been in any animated show/movie as far as I know (at least that's no longer an issue with the other Cass, the second Wonder Girl). Though apparently the writers of Young Justice have said there will be another timeskip (hopefully a smaller one, 5 years was kinda excessive) between Seasons two and three so Cassandra could show up in three.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 14, 2012)

_*IF*_ season 3 is green lit that is. But I doubt anymore bat fam will get into YJ now it's time for static shock


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 14, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Wally has appeared in literally hundreds of comics and only stopped appearing a year ago. Even then he's still a Star in Young Justice and will be back in the next big crossover event in another year, tops.
> 
> *Cass has appeared in, at most, a hundred comics and has dissappeared off the face of the fucking earth for the past six years*.
> 
> Suck it up.



Not quite. she did pop up here and there in several comics last year (Red Robin, Batman Inc, Gates of Gotham...I think she briefly appeared in Batgirl as well)...not alot sure, but she was there.

Wally really can't claim that, he had like one cameo appearence at a picnic near the end of Flash right before Flashpoint happened, but he hasn't really appeared since Blackest Night I think


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 14, 2012)

still don't get why anyone cares about these 5th rate batman fodder sidekicks.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 14, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> still don't get why anyone cares about these 5th rate batman fodder sidekicks.



You'd unstersand if you read stuff that happened before the relaunch, but seeing as how you complain everytime someone brings up anything that happened before the Nu52, that's unlikely to happen right...and no it's not because she and Steph were accosiated with Batman...it's because they're good characters


----------



## Glued (Jun 14, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> still don't get why anyone cares about these 5th rate batman fodder sidekicks.



Isn't it obvious, he's Batman.

There are plenty of other char that have been retconned from history. She's gotten more limelight than most.

I want my Plastic Man back. If he doesn't, I don't mind.

Aztek, gone.
Orion, gone.
The Entire Aquaman cast and Universe, gone.
Jade and Obsidian, gone.

Comics


----------



## shit (Jun 14, 2012)

it probably helps their comic sales, but isn't DC taking a shit on all their trades, making them irrelevant?


----------



## The Big G (Jun 14, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Megatron: History has been rewritten Optimus Primal, yes. The Autobots lose. The Decepticons win and Cassandra Cain NO LONGER EXISTS!!!



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2t4MBhGAg8[/YOUTUBE]


Man Tim fans are a sensitive bunch


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 14, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> _*IF*_ season 3 is green lit that is. But I doubt anymore bat fam will get into YJ now it's time for static shock



I'd be pretty suprised if Young Justice got cancelled this soon, I know the few times I saw the ratings for Saturdays it was pulling about .5 million more viewers than Thundercats for example.

aubro: what do you mean? If you're talking about how some series are taking longer for their trades to come out, well yeah, but what was DC going to do, release 52 trades in one month?  I know my wallet certainly appreciates the trade releases being spread out.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 14, 2012)

Sinestro does not forgive.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 14, 2012)

Black Hand


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Isn't it obvious, he's Batman.



Oh yeah, I forgot how you were into all these arthouse superheroes.

I didn't realise DC comics had hipsters until now.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 14, 2012)

Idk about the rest of you guys, but I'm not really interested in reading Blackest Night 2: Electric Boogaloo.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

i don't think black hand's gonna be resurrecting anyone. plus all those dead nobodies that filled out the black lantern fodder ranks have been retconned away


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2012)

LIL_M0 said:


> Idk about the rest of you guys, but I'm not really interested in reading Blackest Night 2: Electric Boogaloo.





Wha- how could you not WANT to see more zombie shenanigans! RISE, MY ROTTING, DECOMPOSING ANTON ARCANE KNOCKOFFS! *RISE!


*


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 15, 2012)

Eh, DC just needs to make bigger trades of their older material. Have all the final issues before the reboot been collected yet?


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2012)

Phantom Roxas said:


> You guys can have Cass, I want to know where Wally is.



In Limbo with Donna Troy



Narutossss said:


> who's steph again?, I can't bring myself to remember.
> edit: oh shit you were talking about cass... see I don't give enough fucks to even care which bat girl you're bitching about today TPN.



cool story bro




Doom85 said:


> Hell, Cassandra hasn't even been in any animated show/movie as far as I know (at least that's no longer an issue with the other Cass, the second Wonder Girl). Though apparently the writers of Young Justice have said there will be another timeskip (hopefully a smaller one, 5 years was kinda excessive) between Seasons two and three so Cassandra could show up in three.



That's cause they always use Babsgirl


----------



## Glued (Jun 15, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Oh yeah, I forgot how you were into all these arthouse superheroes.
> 
> I didn't realise DC comics had hipsters until now.



After Aquaman, Superman is my favorite DC character and you calling me arthouse.

Frankly aside from Babs and Tim, I can't take any of the bat kids seriously. Babs has genius level intellect. Tim is also said to have some level of genius intellect. I can also tolerate Abuse due to the fact he actually has super powers. Every other kid on the bat family, you would have to be insane to put a child with no powers against monsters and superfreaks.

Marvel shows a lot more respect to its universe, not just one character. DC is turning into Batman and friends. At least Green Lantern is keeping the cosmic aspect of DC alive, and I fucken stopped reading after they put space Hitler on the corps.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 15, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> *Marvel shows a lot more respect to its universe*, not just one character. DC is turning into Batman and friends. At least Green Lantern is keeping the cosmic aspect of DC alive, and I fucken stopped reading after they put space Hitler on the corps.



Since when?


----------



## Glued (Jun 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Since when?



Since Marvel Hercules, a B-list hero from Thor comics got his own event. Even Though Chaos War sucked.

Wondy's been rebooted how many times?
Aquaman's been rebooted how many times?
Superman's origin has been rebooted how many times?
Wally West no longer exists. Up until final crisis he was The Flash, except for that brief time when Bart was aged to full maturity and became the Flash.
Martian Manhunter is the spirit of the Justice League, has been in almost every single incarnation of the Justice League and they replaced him with Cyborg.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 15, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> After Aquaman, Superman is my favorite DC character and you calling me arthouse.
> 
> Frankly aside from Babs and Tim, I can't take any of the bat kids seriously. Babs has genius level intellect. Tim is also said to have some level of genius intellect. I can also tolerate Abuse due to the fact he actually has super powers. Every other kid on the bat family, you would have to be insane to put a child with no powers against monsters and superfreaks.
> 
> Marvel shows a lot more respect to its universe, not just one character. DC is turning into Batman and friends. At least Green Lantern is keeping the cosmic aspect of DC alive, and I fucken stopped reading after they put space Hitler on the corps.


exactly and bat fans still want more books for their benched favorite characters


----------



## Glued (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeah, I'm just hoping that with the Phoenix coming back it will revive Marvel Cosmic somehow. Right now its just limited to the Fantastic Four. I'm also hoping Strange gets back the title of Sorcerer Supreme.

Plus I can't wait for the Main Man's return. Deathstroke #9, I don't even read Deathstroke, but I'll buy that issue just to see Lobo.

Plus I'm stoked about Green Lantern TAS. That show is truly cosmic with planet busting, inter stellar travel, alien species, giant space battle cruisers, lasers.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2012)

GLTAS is fantastic 



Ben Grimm said:


> Babs has genius level intellect.



*had





Narutossss said:


> exactly and bat fans still want more books for their benched favorite characters



And this affects you how...?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2012)

thing about treating batman well is his universe has become pretty big with a lot of good characters, so more people want to read more about him and his friends. the amount of batman books out there is well earned. he sells and his supporting cast is awesome.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> thing about treating batman well is his universe has become pretty big with a lot of good characters, so more people want to read more about him and his friends. the amount of batman books out there is well earned. he sells and his supporting cast is awesome.



This.

'TEC and TDK are the only bat books that are bat books just for the sake of being bat books.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 15, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> And this affects you how...?



 who knows, maybe the next time I visit the closest book store which isn't that close btw I could buy some comics but I can't really cause every fucking trade in their comic book section is a batman book 

Gonna stay a pirate for a bit longer


----------



## Parallax (Jun 15, 2012)

I think a lot of his supporting cast is pretty lame 

but people really like them so let them have their books.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2012)

I wouldn't give a crap about Batman if it wasn't for his supporting cast and his villains.



Narutossss said:


> who knows, maybe the next time I visit the closest book store which isn't that close btw I could buy some comics but I can't really cause every fucking trade in their comic book section is a batman book
> 
> Gonna stay a pirate for a bit longer



Poor you.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 15, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> I wouldn't give a crap about Batman if it wasn't for his supporting cast and his villains.
> 
> 
> 
> Poor you.



Bitch please I don't want your pity I can pirate any comic I want anyway . and btw you're in no position to chat shit, your batgirl bitching is almost as bad as TPN. no batman doesn't deserve all those book, bullshit.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jun 15, 2012)

Batman is awesome. He just shouldn't be the center of the universe, IMO.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 15, 2012)

Batman's supporting cast =! Batman. As long as every bat book is  good and has it's own defined purpose I don't see the issue. 

So again, TDK and 'TEC are the only unnecessary ones.



Narutossss said:


> who knows, maybe the next time I visit the closest book store which isn't that close btw I could buy some comics but I can't really cause every fucking trade in their comic book section is a batman book
> 
> Gonna stay a pirate for a bit longer



So because your nearest book store is oversaturated with Bat Books, your only option is to pirate? I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but it is possible to purchase comics online and have them shipped to you.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 15, 2012)

I think Batman has the best supporting cast in comics

they're not all winners but I do really like some of them like Alfred, Gordon, and Grayson.


----------



## Slice (Jun 15, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I think Batman has the best supporting cast in comics
> 
> they're not all winners but I do really like some of them like Alfred, Gordon, and Grayson.



As usual Parallax is spot on.



And is GLTAS really _that_ good? I remember seeing a preview and the animation style did nothing for me back then.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 15, 2012)

I honestly like them all for various reasons. Well, don't really like Babs or Tim so much anymore, but other than that I like them all.

Jason in particular is a lot better now that he's letting go of his daddy issues.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> Bitch please I don't want your pity I can pirate any comic I want anyway . and btw you're in no position to chat shit, your batgirl bitching is almost as bad as TPN. no batman doesn't deserve all those book, bullshit.



blah blah blah

Batman has too many books, I'd get rid of half of them if it were up to me, so you can spare me your batman is popular oh woe me whining. I don't give a shit 




Slice said:


> And is GLTAS really _that_ good? I remember seeing a preview and the animation style did nothing for me back then.



Yep.

The animation grows on you pretty fast. Check the first three episodes at least.


----------



## Glued (Jun 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So because your nearest book store is oversaturated with Bat Books, your only option is to pirate? I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but it is possible to purchase comics online and have them shipped to you.




I pirate as well, not as much these days. I'm scared the Blue Beetle will come after me.

[YOUTUBE]8OASj_w-Nj8[/YOUTUBE]

Beware the Beetle, he's coming for us.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 15, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I think a lot of his supporting cast is pretty lame





Parallax said:


> I think Batman has the best supporting cast in comics



I get what you were saying, but I thought it was pretty funny. Also, are you Mitt Romney!? 

Edit: I pirate, but it's rare that I don't buy what I like eventually, depending on whether or not I feel it will be omni'd or deluxed.

Edit part deux:

This is the most hilarious sale ever. DC has got to be trolling here.


And I love how the brainiac moon in the background.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2012)

wtf flashpoint?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 15, 2012)

I stand by my statement 

what I mean is I think he has a really good cast and the ones that I like I realllly like but the ones that I don't I find them to be really boring or uniteresting to me.

I rarely pirate only because I hate reading on the computer screen.  At the same time I rarely buy comics anymore but I will pick up trades and find single issues on the discount.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> wtf flashpoint?



Not even just that, from top to bottom:

Dad dies
Dad dies
Dad dies
Son dies
Son murders
Mom dies, dad gets crippled
Daughter hates dad by end of story
Wild Wests is just a bad comic book
Dad is already dead.
Son dies causing dad to be batman and mom to be joker
Son watches dad die in first issue
Dad dies, wife dies
Haven't read Starman
Terra is impregnated by Deathstroke
Mourning death of dad (Tim?s fathers day issue)


----------



## Glued (Jun 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I get what you were saying, but I thought it was pretty funny. Also, are you Mitt Romney!?
> 
> Edit: I pirate, but it's rare that I don't buy what I like eventually, depending on whether or not I feel it will be omni'd or deluxed.
> 
> ...


Wait, did they actually put Aquaman, Death of a Prince for a Father's day sale?

What the, I don't even...why?


----------



## Glued (Jun 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Not even just that, from top to bottom:
> 
> Dad dies
> Dad dies
> ...





Now that's just wrong.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Batman's supporting cast =! Batman. As long as every bat book is  good and has it's own defined purpose I don't see the issue.
> 
> So again, TDK and 'TEC are the only unnecessary ones.
> 
> ...



I only ship stuff I know is good, only shipped manga like vagabond so far but after pirating some comics I've started a short list of trades I will ship, last time I blindly bought a trade from a book store batman the battle for the cowl, I was disappoint!!


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Wait, did they actually put Aquaman, Death of a Prince for a Father's day sale?
> 
> What the, I don't even...why?



**


----------



## Parallax (Jun 15, 2012)

Oh god that list is hilarious

I love how most of them the dad croaks.

sending your father the message he wants to hear


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 15, 2012)

That has to be intentional right? Like someone in DC advertising/marketing has a morbid sense of humor, and the suits who approved it hadn't read most/all of the stories mentioned.

If I had a kid who jumped on this sale I'd probably start locking my bedroom door at night.

EDIT: Also, DC should have thrown cry for justice / rise of arsenal on that sale.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 15, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Wait, did they actually put Aquaman, Death of a Prince for a Father's day sale?
> 
> What the, I don't even...why?



Now every father can watch Aquababy get horribly murdered by Black Manta and Mera go batshit nuts. Next Year they'll have those couple issues where Manta shows up to troll Aquaman at the United Nations and then runs away to blow up his son's grave

I'm with Whirlwind...this has to be a morbid joke


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Also, DC should have thrown cry for justice / rise of arsenal on that sale.



List is not complete without that masterpiece. 

I'm dying to know what they'll do for Mother's day.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 15, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> List is not complete without that masterpiece.


I'm thinking that DC, being the masterful trolls that they are, didn't want to overplay their hand. 



> I'm dying to know what they'll do for Mother's day.



Rites of Passage works for both


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Rites of Passage works for both



Haha so does Batwoman: Elegy.


----------



## creative (Jun 15, 2012)

this is my general feel about the night of the owls event. I do love me some daimen truth be told but he has no clue what he's getting into.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 16, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Not even just that, from top to bottom:
> 
> Dad dies
> Dad dies
> ...



It says issue 1-16, so Ted Knight is still alive at that point. But the series starts out with Ted's elder son being killed.

But that list.  Whoever is in charge of this must really hate Father's Day.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jun 16, 2012)

a creative color said:


> this is my general feel about the night of the owls event. I do love me some daimen truth be told but he has no clue what he's getting into.



 Brilliant!


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 16, 2012)

Batman and his I Love Gotham coffee mug makes me giggle.  I'm really liking the Legends of the Dark Knight short stories.


----------



## shit (Jun 16, 2012)

Doom85 said:


> aubro: what do you mean? If you're talking about how some series are taking longer for their trades to come out, well yeah, but what was DC going to do, release 52 trades in one month?  I know my wallet certainly appreciates the trade releases being spread out.



I'm talking about their older trades which are already out, pre-reboot

who would give a shit to buy/read them when they don't even matter anymore


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 16, 2012)

I maintain that Detective Comics is not unnecessary because it's DC's namesake and is the relaunch of Batman's debut title. I can't say anything about the quality of the book, but I completely agree that The Dark Knight is unnecessary.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 16, 2012)

aubro said:


> I'm talking about their older trades which are already out, pre-reboot
> 
> who would give a shit to buy/read them when they don't even matter anymore



cause there are some pretty good stories among them?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 16, 2012)

Not everybody buys stuff to play continuity cop.


----------



## Rasendori (Jun 16, 2012)

a creative color said:


> this is my general feel about the night of the owls event. I do love me some daimen truth be told but he has no clue what he's getting into.



Shit, Jason an Damien go at it in the night owls event? Sounds legit.


----------



## shit (Jun 16, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Not everybody buys stuff to play continuity cop.



some people do, going along with your exaggerated way of putting it

some people enjoy getting into a universe and are excited that what they read will have baring on future things going on in the continuous story
I know I was when I got into marvel


----------



## shit (Jun 16, 2012)

Parallax said:


> cause there are some pretty good stories among them?



would you say most of them are good?

would you rly?


----------



## Platinum (Jun 16, 2012)

Most of anything is not good.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 16, 2012)

Some of the older pre 52 reboot yeah of course.  Don't forget you have several decades of material to mine through


----------



## shit (Jun 16, 2012)

none of which will ever be referenced again


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 16, 2012)

so what

all star superman never even was canon, we still read it because its good. 

granted most of the pre-reboot dc was even shittier than the current one, but i'd still recommend people check out some of it. like secret six? or, i'd say morrison's batman, snyder and rucka's tec runs, but those are still canon basically. 

anyway, yeah, stop being a continuity whore


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 16, 2012)

aubro said:


> some people do, going along with your exaggerated way of putting it



And those some people better not buy into Watchmen because of how many times Rorschach has crossovered with Batman over in whatever numbered Detective Comics run.



> some people enjoy getting into a universe and are excited that what they read will have baring on future things going on in the continuous story
> I know I was when I got into marvel



Well then they should be aware of how many times DC has performed a reboot.

More than 1 should be an indication of a possibility.

I love Marvel more than DC on average perhaps for the reason you describe on part, though Vertigo's a big equalizer and those stories are a lot of the time unreferenced in mainstream books, like Books of Magic.


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 16, 2012)

So uh, quick question. I think this is the right place to post this?

I've never really followed comics. I just get issues here and there that interest me. However my interest in the Bat Family is at an all-time high and it coincides with the reboot so I figure maybe ti's time I finally hop on the wagon and follow an ongoing for the first time.

I was just wondering about if all the Bat-books are related? Like, I'm primarily interested in Batgirl and Batwoman but do I have to get the other Batman books too? I don't mind if I do but I'm curious.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 16, 2012)

Not really. They are all for the most part self contained so far.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 16, 2012)

although on occassion they will all do a large story together but you'll know when that happens


----------



## shit (Jun 16, 2012)

well guys, say I'm at a bookstore with money in my pocket and no suggestions in my head

I don't know wtf is good or bad in the dc section, only that none of it is canon anymore
none of it


----------



## Platinum (Jun 16, 2012)

The Dark Knight Returns was never canon, and suffice to say no one ever read it.


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 16, 2012)

So wait another question.

I have an okay general knowledge of important Batman events and as I understand it, the "reboot" is more of a reset and certain stories are still in-continuity. Or at least that's what I had read a while back.

So I was reading the summary for Batman & Robin #11 I think and it says Damian is going to try and defeat each other Robin. Now in this new continuity, where is Tim Drake at in his career?


----------



## Platinum (Jun 16, 2012)

Tim Drake is Red Robin and leads the Titans. The Bat Family really wasn't rebooted all that much.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 16, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> So wait another question.
> 
> I have an okay general knowledge of important Batman events and as I understand it, the "reboot" is more of a reset and certain stories are still in-continuity. Or at least that's what I had read a while back.
> 
> So I was reading the summary for Batman & Robin #11 I think and it says Damian is going to try and defeat each other Robin. Now in this new continuity, where is Tim Drake at in his career?



Tim's Red Robin, has a terrible costume, doesn't have a bat book of his own and is instead relegated to appeared in the shitfest that is Teen Titans.No telling what's actually happened with him as quite honestly they've changed him up a good bit if the September solicits are anything to go by


----------



## Platinum (Jun 16, 2012)

I forgot about the solicit, poor tim.


----------



## Glued (Jun 17, 2012)

After the disappointment of of Hawkman, I need blood, where can I get blood. Which Book has the most amount of blood and carnage. Grimm need blood.


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jun 17, 2012)

The biggest connection the Batman group has had since the reboot is the Night of the Owls event, and even then I heard you don't have to read everything in order to understand it, as it's really just one thing that happens to tie in to most of the books.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 17, 2012)

batman the dark knight ^ to ben


----------



## Platinum (Jun 17, 2012)

I think he meant blood in the book, not a book that will cause your eyes to bleed while reading it .


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 17, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> After the disappointment of of Hawkman, I need blood, where can I get blood. Which Book has the most amount of blood and carnage. Grimm need blood.



I Vampire, Swamp Thing, Animal Man.

I'm not reading the book, but surely Red Lanterns must have people being ripped apart and burned to death.

And All-Star Western is about Jonah Hex. Isn't his whole deal horrors in the Wild West? So that should have a fair amount of blood and gore. I think.


----------



## MrChubz (Jun 18, 2012)

Just got around to reading Justice League #6. It sucked so much. How does Darkseid go from flattening the entire Justice League in issue 4, to getting his eyes impaled by Aquaman? Of course, the jobbing wasn't the worst of it. The resolution was the worst of it. There were 5 issues of painting this as a hopeless invasion, then it was stopped by Batman doing something, then Batman telling Cyborg to do something, which did something, then everything was back to rainbows, unicorns, and Hal being a complete prick.

Oh, and Darkseid has a daughter. I wonder if there's a single person who read the issue who doesn't already know who it is.


----------



## Glued (Jun 18, 2012)

Actually the Trident Aquaman wields is a weapon capable of killing gods. Triton used it to kill Poseidon. Poseidon used it to kill Triton. Hell it can even kill ghosts. Its power was overwhelming Garth a powerful magician.

The weapon was handed to Aquaman by Poseidon himself because he didn't want to be King of the Seas anymore.

However Darkseid should be way to fast for Aquaman to ever hit him. Unless of course he just stood there and allowed Aquaman to hit him.


----------



## MrChubz (Jun 18, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Actually the Trident Aquaman wields is a weapon capable of killing gods. Triton used it to kill Poseidon. Poseidon used it to kill Triton. Hell it can even kill ghosts. Its power was overwhelming Garth a powerful magician.
> 
> The weapon was handed to Aquaman by Poseidon himself because he didn't want to be King of the Seas anymore.
> 
> However Darkseid should be way to fast for Aquaman to ever hit him. Unless of course he just stood there and allowed Aquaman to hit him.



It's not too bad because he had just been stabbed in the eye by Wonder Woman's sword. I was just using Aquaman as an example because he was the weakest guy who did the most damage. My point is mostly that just 2 issues before it, the JL couldn't even stand up if Darkseid lifted arms, and in this one the entire league was pretty much taking turns dumping on him.

The fight wasn't too bad terrible, since Darkseid still kicked the entire JL's ass at the same time despite a few annoyances. After thinking about it, what I take issue with the most is how out of character Darkseid was written. Not only is Darkseid evil, but he is an asshole who likes to hear himself speak.

Here (and in the other issues as well now that I think about it) he hardly says anything, and when he does, it's only one or two words that are complete non-sequiturs. For instance, at one point Wonder Woman eggs him on, and Darkseid says, 'He (Superman) is mine, as is your world,' Superman was nowhere in the scene. The worst one is when Superman shows up to the fight, Darkseid sees him and shouts, 'I am Darkseid!' Yeah, you already introduced yourself, big man.

TLR: The action was good, but the writing was terrible.


----------



## ActionSage (Jun 19, 2012)

When is the next batwoman coming out? I feel like I've been waiting forever...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 19, 2012)

ActionSage said:


> When is the next batwoman coming out? I feel like I've been waiting forever...



This week I think


----------



## Zen-aku (Jun 19, 2012)

Is Legion lost any good?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 19, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Is Legion lost any good?



it's nothing special and mediocre at best to be honest


----------



## Zen-aku (Jun 19, 2012)

Danm.

What about Dial H?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 19, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Danm.
> 
> What about Dial H?



Dial H is fantastic. buy it and then go make your friends buy it. out of the second wave this is by far the one that needs to stick around the longest.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jun 19, 2012)

Awesome ill get Caught up on that then.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> it's nothing special and mediocre at best to be honest



You know you could have just said "It's Nicieza."


----------



## kisuke55 (Jun 20, 2012)

got some of the new 52 at the flea market.
batman owls story line looks badass,as does gl corpd.

little disapointed in gl,and gl new gaurdians


----------



## Zen-aku (Jun 20, 2012)

Green Lantern Corps. Is  the Most underrated and Best GL book Currently


----------



## The Big G (Jun 20, 2012)

Kori is the Big Spoon...Roy is the Little Spoon


----------



## Zen-aku (Jun 20, 2012)

Daawww


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2012)

Dick Grayson's day job is amazing.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 20, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Dick Grayson's day job is amazing.



circus manager?...


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Jun 20, 2012)

Whose work do you guys prefer? Ivan Reis, Phil Jimenez, Jim Lee or Eddy Barrows? If you can't put names to faces, here's a brief run-down:

Ivan Reis - Blackest Night, current Aquaman

Phil Jimenez - Infinite Crisis

Jim Lee - Batman: Hush, current Justice League

Eddy Barrows - Superman: Grounded.


Whats the general consensus?


----------



## Zen-aku (Jun 21, 2012)

THERE ARE NO WORDS I CAN USE TO DESCRIBE HOE MUCH I LOVE RATO!!!:WOW


----------



## Platinum (Jun 21, 2012)

The Vandal Savage DCU Presents was good again. Can never get enough of Vandal being awesome.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 21, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> circus manager?...



Amusement park restorer / circus manager


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 21, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Whose work do you guys prefer? Ivan Reis, Phil Jimenez, Jim Lee or Eddy Barrows? If you can't put names to faces, here's a brief run-down:
> 
> Ivan Reis - Blackest Night, current Aquaman
> 
> ...



Ivan Reis 




Zen-aku said:


> Green Lantern Corps. Is  the Most underrated and Best GL book Currently



I'm surprised by how much I'm enjoying it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Whose work do you guys prefer? Ivan Reis, Phil Jimenez, Jim Lee or Eddy Barrows? If you can't put names to faces, here's a brief run-down:
> 
> Ivan Reis - Blackest Night, current Aquaman
> 
> ...



of those 4 definitely reis. but there's a lot of artists even just at dc that i like better


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 21, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> of those 4 definitely reis. but there's a lot of artists even just at dc that i like better



This. Manapul and JH Williams are both clearly better imo, however that's more of a matter of taste I guess. I'll say that Reis is hands down DC's best "event" artist, and I think he'd be far better on JL than Lee is.

Really as much as I like Reis on Aquaman, a Johns / Reis justice league would have had me WAY more excited than a Johns / Lee Justice League.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 21, 2012)

Once upon a time Jimenez was clearly the best out of that lineup

and nostalgia has me love Jim Lee forever and ever.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 21, 2012)

Parallax said:


> Once upon a time Jimenez was clearly the best out of that lineup
> 
> and nostalgia has me love Jim Lee forever and ever.



Yeah what happened to Jimenez?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 21, 2012)

He stopped drawing and possibly giving a damn


----------



## The man with a pigeon (Jun 21, 2012)

Is Reis the only big name artist who came from drawing porn?

Edit: I should have read it before I posted this sentence.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 21, 2012)

Wait, what?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Really as much as I like Reis on Aquaman, a Johns / Reis justice league would have had me WAY more excited than a Johns / Lee Justice League.



Same. I'm not sure if there's an artist who could replace him on aquaman though, he really sets the tone of that book with his art somehow. I think bleeding cool was saying Lee might leave justice league for a wildcats book.

Artists that I like better than Reis.... the 2 you mentioned but also Mahnke and Capullo. And I really am liking Chiang too.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 21, 2012)

Oh yeah, those 3 as well. However a lot of that is because In most cases I prefer artists who have a unique style.

Reis and Mahnke are great artists, and everything they do looks great, but it doesn't really have a unique style. At the same time though I think that type of artist is what you would want on an event.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2012)

I think Mahnke's style is pretty unique


----------



## Parallax (Jun 21, 2012)

I've never really been as much of a fan of Mahnke's as a lot of people are.  Still I like his work well enough


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 21, 2012)

I was very disappointing with jim lee on JL, it felt kinda flat to me, reis is ok I guess but I don't really like him. capullo is just boss, really love his batman. jh williams is far too crazy with the page layouts for my liking, can't tell what the fuck is going on. don't really know that many dc artists that I care about really, way to busy fapping over marvels chris bachalo to give a darn about the dc guys right now.


----------



## ActionSage (Jun 21, 2012)

Batwoman was meh
Dat Wonder Woman was killer
GLC was pretty good this week


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Jun 21, 2012)

Ugh. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I fucking hate Mahnke. I don't see how he's better than any of the four I mentioned before.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I was very disappointing with jim lee on JL, it felt kinda flat to me, reis is ok I guess but I don't really like him. capullo is just boss, really love his batman. jh williams is far too crazy with the page layouts for my liking, can't tell what the fuck is going on. don't really know that many dc artists that I care about really, way to busy fapping over marvels chris bachalo to give a darn about the dc guys right now.



I love bacchalo but I find his layouts a lot more confusing that JHW3


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 21, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Ugh. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I fucking hate Mahnke. I don't see how he's better than any of the four I mentioned before.





that's all that needs to be said.

but really he's got a great handle on making dynamic action, creepy aliens, the ring powers, tells the story very competently, generally his art is just fucking cool. 

back when he was doing FC: Superman Beyond his faces bothered me but whether I've gotten used to the style or he's altered his style a little so that they're less weird I don't know. He's been great on GL though


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 21, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I love bacchalo but I find his layouts a lot more confusing that JHW3


Yeah true, I think I'm just being bias towards bachalo but yeah no one I mean on one can out clusterfuck bachalo.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 23, 2012)

So I stumbled on to this on deviantart: 

Alfred.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Jun 23, 2012)

So I know Kyle Higgins wasn't perfect but holy shit is Deathstroke bad now or what? It feels like they've hired some fifteen year old to do whatever he feels like.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 23, 2012)

Rob said:


> So I know Kyle Higgins wasn't perfect but holy shit is Deathstroke bad now or what? It feels like they've hired some fifteen year old to do whatever he feels like.



You can thank Liefeld for that enormous dip in quality


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 23, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Whose work do you guys prefer? Ivan Reis, Phil Jimenez, Jim Lee or Eddy Barrows? If you can't put names to faces, here's a brief run-down:
> 
> Ivan Reis - Blackest Night, current Aquaman
> 
> ...



Either Reis at his most polished or Lee when he's not lines crazy (in fact I don't like his JL work all that much, not even getting into the redesigns).



Whip Whirlwind said:


> This. Manapul and JH Williams are both clearly better imo, however that's more of a matter of taste I guess. I'll say that Reis is hands down DC's best "event" artist, and I think he'd be far better on JL than Lee is.
> 
> Really as much as I like Reis on Aquaman, a Johns / Reis justice league would have had me WAY more excited than a Johns / Lee Justice League.



There's also Ethan Van Sciver. Too bad he's a Joseph McCarthy fanboy.



Parallax said:


> Once upon a time Jimenez was clearly the best out of that lineup
> 
> and nostalgia has me love Jim Lee forever and ever.



Oh those mutie yarns.



Parallax said:


> He stopped drawing and possibly giving a damn



Phoning it in becomes a problem for some artists.


----------



## kisuke55 (Jun 23, 2012)

ive been a big fan of doug mahnke,i think hes under rated.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Jun 23, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> that's all that needs to be said.



lol If we're really just letting art speak for itself...









And that's just from Ivan Reis.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 24, 2012)

I recently found my issue of Batwoman #1 (I put it in a storage bin because I was moving). I meant to keep up with this series but life happend and I just kinda forgot. 

How's this book been? Is JHW3 still doing the art and co-scripting? I hope Kate's character hasn't been affected by this "new 52" crap, I thought she was pretty cool.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2012)

yeaaah still prefer mahnke, reis can barely draw an action sequence

m0, JHW's taking a break on the art duties but he's still scripting, and batwoman is pretty much totally unaffected by the relaunch. Originally art was gonna flip between JHW and amy reeder. But they had 'creative differences' of some kind. So right now the art's being done by that guy from gates of gotham, who does a surprisingly good JHW imitation


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 24, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> lol If we're really just letting art speak for itself...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you brought this on yourself


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2012)

i hate that joker


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 24, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i hate that joker



seems alot to peeps hate lee's joker... most be the nose


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2012)

and the chin. and the mouth. pretty much all of it


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jun 24, 2012)

The problem with Lee's Joker is that he's not Sale's Joker.



The pointy Joker chin has been a thing since Aparo at least.


----------



## Slice (Jun 25, 2012)

I also dont like that Joker very much.

Im not a big fan of the deformed / inhuman looking Joker.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2012)

hahaha

please tell me you guys get this and got the steve holt joke in UXF


----------



## Parallax (Jun 26, 2012)

I did

it was great :]


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 27, 2012)

to is no manapul :/

but to be fair he put out some pretty nice art too


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 28, 2012)

Justice League continues to be not bad and getting better. Could just be the Flash / GL bro moments that are always humorous. Superman was pretty cool too in this issue.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 28, 2012)

I didn't like JL much. It didn't seem like much happened. It just felt like it was building up towards something. Each issue should be a bit more self contained I think.

And pesonally, I wish all the Shazam stuff was a seperate series too.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 28, 2012)

Shazam is the only good stuff in that book


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 28, 2012)

Ok, well it still shouldn't be in Justice League. It should be in it's own seperate series.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 28, 2012)

typhoon72 said:


> Shazam is the only good stuff in that book



Dickish! Hal is good stuff to me.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 28, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Dickish! Hal is good stuff to me.


A couple of "good" lines of comedy is nowhere near enough to say that the book has good content.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 28, 2012)

i think its alright. i wish it had a different artist


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 28, 2012)

people still read JL??  lol


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 28, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> people still read JL??  lol



I buy it for the Shazam back up, but the book has actually become kinda decent. 

Justice League Dark is still the much superior book though


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 28, 2012)

I really don't want to read JL again but those captain marvel back stories are tempting as fuck... why can't they just cancel one of their shit on goings and just give captain marvel I mean shazam his own book/


----------



## Rukia (Jun 28, 2012)

typhoon72 said:


> Shazam is the only good stuff in that book


I agree.  Read every issue since the re-launch.  Shazam and Pandora short stories are the only interesting pages I have read so far.  This is drivel guys.  Justice League Dark is far superior.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 29, 2012)

It's not even fair to compare JL to JLD.


----------



## tari101190 (Jun 29, 2012)

JLD isn't even a Jusitice League book.

It should have been called _Sentinels of Magic_ or _Shadowpact_.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 29, 2012)

Justice League Dark was hilarious.

"*You left Constantine alone with the box!?*"
*huge magical explosion*

Oh yeah, anybody else read I, Vampire? Such a great book, and such a great issue. Love the Van Helsings.

I was thinking about it, but it's kinda surprising how the Dark line is good / great all across the board.


----------



## Slice (Jun 29, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Oh yeah, anybody else read I, Vampire? Such a great book, and such a great issue. Love the Van Helsings.



This may sound stupid but i had to stop reading at issue 3 because i didnt have the time to read too many series and had to cut down.

Yes i managed not to have time to read 24 pages of something _a month_.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 29, 2012)

Slice said:


> This may sound stupid but i had to stop reading at issue 3 because i didnt have the time to read too many series and had to cut down.
> 
> Yes i managed not to have time to read 24 pages of something _a month_.



I guarantee that one of the books you are reading is worse than I Vampire. Well...most likely.

My only fear is that Fialkov and Sorrentino are so good that DC might want to put them somewhere else.


----------



## Slice (Jun 29, 2012)

In september i have a two week vacation, i plan to do a lot of reading then.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 29, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Justice League Dark was hilarious.
> 
> "*You left Constantine alone with the box!?*"
> *huge magical explosion*
> ...



I, Vampire is one of my favorite books of the relaunch.


----------



## Slice (Jun 30, 2012)

Does it still have those horrible covers the first three issues had. If i didn't know how the interior art looked i would have never started to read this in the first place just because of those.


----------



## Platinum (Jun 30, 2012)

Were the last two covers.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 30, 2012)

Slice said:


> Does it still have those horrible covers the first three issues had. If i didn't know how the interior art looked i would have never started to read this in the first place just because of those.



really you're judging a book by their covers   alot of the times the cover and interior artist are different people.


----------



## mali (Jun 30, 2012)

To be honest, I liked the cover art for the I Vampire better than the actual interior. The interior art seemed way to digital imo.


----------



## Narutossss (Jun 30, 2012)

so has anyone here heard of sean murphy? he's been working at vertigo for awhile now, I've been really digging his artwork he posts on his site. speaking of vertigo I've been meaning to read their books since I'm not really getting into the DCU, any recommendations.


----------



## Rukia (Jun 30, 2012)

Loved the first two issues of World's Finest.  Anyone else given the book a chance yet?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 30, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so has anyone here heard of sean murphy? he's been working at vertigo for awhile now, I've been really digging his artwork he posts on his site. speaking of vertigo I've been meaning to read their books since I'm not really getting into the DCU, any recommendations.



Fables, Hellblazer, Sweet Tooth, Unwritten and American Vampire are all good in my opinion...though all have a good deal of backlog to get through (American Vampire less so but there's still some) if you want somthing that's short go with Azzarello's Spaceman



Rukia said:


> Loved the first two issues of World's Finest.  Anyone else given the book a chance yet?



It's a okay book, but it just doesn't appeal that much to me, other than giving me my Huntress fix. personally speaking if it doesn't impress by issue three i'm dropping it


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 1, 2012)

Oh man, I, Vampire has some great lines. "History, of course, is a dirty, lying whore" is my favourite line of the week. 



Emperor Joker said:


> It's a okay book, but it just doesn't appeal that much to me, other than giving me my Huntress fix. personally speaking if it doesn't impress by issue three i'm dropping it



Pretty much this. I'm giving it 'till issue 4 simply because I hated issue 1, but issue 2 was decent and turned me around. So I'm hoping it'll keep on getting better.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 1, 2012)

Goddamn it. Missed out the Black Glove Deluxe Edition at my LCSs.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 2, 2012)

Holy god, Tony Daniel is finally leaving Detective Comics. :33 Hopefully, they'll get someone decent to replace him.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 2, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Oh man, I, Vampire has some great lines. "History, of course, is a dirty, lying whore" is my favourite line of the week.



Loved that one,

and Slice, I totally get being turned off by the covers. I mean it's a vampire love story, that automatically gives a negative impression to a lot of people. The initial covers practically reinforced that negative impression.


----------



## Phantom Roxas (Jul 2, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I mean it's a vampire love story, that automatically gives a negative impression to a lot of people.



But that is _why_ I want to read it. Also, Clayton Crain is now drawing the covers, and his art is godly.

Anyway, .


----------



## Taleran (Jul 2, 2012)

That is kinda hilarious, baffling and strange.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 2, 2012)

superman looks really terrible on that cover


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 2, 2012)

Batman's facial expression is hilarious.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 2, 2012)

Is good to know that I'm not the only one enjoying I, Vampire, it is quite a good series, and next chapter seems promising.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 3, 2012)

> This October, one of the most notorious villains in comic book history is making his return to DC COMICS-THE NEW 52. In the new storyline, “Death of the Family,” The Joker will come out of the dark in a horrifying, unnerving, and huge way. And the grave consequences of his reemergence will be felt by not only the Bat-family, but by all of Gotham City.
> 
> He crippled Batgirl. He killed Robin. What will The Joker do next? And what must Batman do to protect his secret identity and that of those who fight alongside him? The adventure begins in BATMAN #13 by Scott Snyder, Greg Capullo and Jonathan Glapion.
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 3, 2012)

that promo art is brilliant


----------



## Slice (Jul 3, 2012)

I love it.

Curious on how they will redesign the joker


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 3, 2012)

Slice said:


> I love it.
> 
> Curious on how they will redesign the joker


I'm hoping he look more like the Lee Bermejo Joker. And hopefully he has a scarred, marked  up face, rather than a clown mask face.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 3, 2012)

I gotta admit.

That art is pretty awesome.


----------



## Slice (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm not the biggest fan of the Lee Bermejo design, a bit too "realistic" for lack of a better word. I want my clown a bit more cartoony.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> that promo art is brilliant





Slice said:


> I love it.
> 
> Curious on how they will redesign the joker





Platinum said:


> I gotta admit.
> 
> That art is pretty awesome.



lets not forgot this is the same artist marvel and dc had a biding war for, marvel offered him AvX but DC raised that shit and offered batman . good thing he went with DC, him on AvX would have been a huge waist of his talent and time.


----------



## Vault (Jul 3, 2012)

What a poster, that's amazing.


----------



## Slice (Jul 3, 2012)

i want that picture in ultra high resolution so i can frame it and put it on my wall.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 3, 2012)

Hopefully Synder's Joker is well... interesting. I'm kind of tired and done with the whole 'force of nature' thing they've been going with for these past few years.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 3, 2012)

Damn I'm all excited for this.  Snyder's Batman is still the only DC title that I regularly buy


----------



## Slice (Jul 4, 2012)

^ Last saturday i thought about getting the first TPB in german. (Most of the new 52 got their first TPB translated, i guess that is a new record)
I skimmed through it and unfortunately wasnt very impressed by the translation.


----------



## shit (Jul 4, 2012)

huehuehuehuehue


----------



## shit (Jul 4, 2012)

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 4, 2012)

Is Slott always this great on his tweets?  I might have to check it out more often.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 5, 2012)

so...maybe Detective will stop being so horrbily mediocre when Layman takes over...this does remind me that I need to get caught up on Chew though


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 5, 2012)

wow dc's actually trying to make all the batman books good. 

meanwhile lobdell is on superman


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 5, 2012)

shit said:


> huehuehuehuehue


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 6, 2012)

Hey, so I just realized, Batman Earth One came out this week. How was that? Did Johns do good?


@Zen: That gif is adorable. Where's it from?


----------



## Slice (Jul 6, 2012)

Animation style looks like its from the 'Puss in Boots' movie.
But i havent seen it so i'm only guessing.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 6, 2012)

has anyone checked out batman earth one yet? supposedly its pretty good


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 6, 2012)

I just finished reading it actually.

Its... interesting. Lots of new takes. Lots of interesting teasers for the futures Earth One books. I really want to see where bat samurai fit in Johns' batworld.John's Alfred is fantastic. A great reinvention of the character.

The plot feels a bit flat, but still decent. I didn't have very high hopes, but its better than what I thought it would be.


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 6, 2012)

I'm kinda iffy about picking it up, I mean unless Earth-1 will eventually connect with the current main Earth I might end up passing since how many different versions of Batman's origin do we need (I at least appreciate Year One for focusing more on Gordon). At least with Superman there's a lot more sci-fi aspects to it so there's more room for variety which is why I might pick up Superman Earth One (assuming it's any good).

I mean, Earth-2 is intersecting with the main Earth via World's Finest and I'm sure DC has other plans for that as well, but any idea if Earth-1 will connect to the main Earth in any way or is that just DC's new All Star (since that never took off besides two titles) in a way?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 6, 2012)

how many batman origins have we gotten in comics since year one?

i read it, i liked how the characters start out hugely different, but by the end things have put them on the track to be more like the characters we know


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 6, 2012)

It's more along the lines that Batman has been the most exposed DC character in animation and film, so I'm more picky about what Batman to read. It's like I'm definitely sticking with the main Batman book, Batman and Robin I'll get around, divided on whether to get Detective Comics, and will pass on Batman: TDK. Especially since there's lots of pre-Flashpoint Batman stuff I still need to read, like Morrison's run, Hush, Killing Joke, No Man's Land (read the novelization, but would like to read the comic as well), Knightfall, etc.


----------



## shit (Jul 6, 2012)

don't forget incorporated


----------



## MrChubz (Jul 6, 2012)

Does Superman still suck? I've been itching for a good Superman story not by Morrison.


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 6, 2012)

shit said:


> don't forget incorporated



Like I said in the previous post, I've yet to start reading Morrison's stuff on Batman so the new Batman Inc. book wouldn't work for me since I don't know everything that's led up to it. It's definitely on my eventual-list, but I've got to get all the essential stuff that led up to it first.


----------



## shit (Jul 6, 2012)

it's not really delving into all the b-listers that bruce recruited

in fact, who's to say the previous incorporated series is even canon anymore


----------



## Elias (Jul 6, 2012)

Since Superman is getting Red Hoods creative team soon who will be writing / doing the art for Red Hood? :/


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2012)

guessing lobdell is staying on red hood. i think hes leaving superboy. who knows with the artist though


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 7, 2012)

shit said:


> it's not really delving into all the b-listers that bruce recruited
> 
> in fact, who's to say the previous incorporated series is even canon anymore



Generally, it seems that Batman and Green Lantern have kept a good deal of their prior-Flashpoint canon including the Damien stuff. There's been a few other stuff they've kept canon too, like Legion of Superheroes referencing the events of The Great Darkness Saga (although the events have probably been modified since the new 52 Superman never called himself Superboy when he was younger as far as we know).


----------



## Huey Freeman (Jul 7, 2012)

So I got Men of War in the mail should I give this a go ?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 9, 2012)

Animal Man / Swamp Thing vs. Rotworld 

So excited! 

So did anybody read earth one?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 9, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Animal Man / Swamp Thing vs. Rotworld
> 
> So excited!
> 
> So did anybody read earth one?



Indeed next month's going to be awesome.

also yeah I got Earth One...haven't really had the time to open it up and read through it yet though


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 9, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Indeed next month's going to be awesome.
> 
> also yeah I got Earth One...haven't really had the time to open it up and read through it yet though



It wasn't terrible. Liked what they did with Alfred, Gordon, and Bullock.

So reading the CBR bit on Snyder's Joker story has me a bit iffy. Another mini event? But at the same time, with the direction of the story (which on paper sounds good), the tie ins make sense.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 9, 2012)

• Return to the future world seen in BATMAN #666, where Damian has taken over the mantle of the Bat!
• The whole world has gone mad. The only sane people left are in Arkham Asylum – where Batman is the warden!


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 9, 2012)

FEAR LADY SHIVA AND HER WATERMELON HELMET!


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 9, 2012)

Really happy Damian Batman is back, but I wonder if the story about him is the same.

Apparently when Damian is 14 he will sell his soul to the devil (not confirmed whether literal or not though).

He apparently gains super healing too. Probably from the deal.

And he becomes Batman after the previous Batman dies. because of him. I was hoping that the Batman that died was Dick (which will explain why future Barbra was so angry about it) , but in this new 52 only Bruce is Batman.

If the prrevious Batman and Robin series continued I could image Dick and damian on a mission where Dick died because of Damian not following orders


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 9, 2012)

Had a small scare

DC cancelled subscriptions for 

Swamp Thing
Aquaman
Justice League Dark
Justice League International

Thought this meant cancelled until I saw solicits for future issues.


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 9, 2012)

Wel, Justice League International has been cancelled (will end with issue 12 and then an annual issue IIRC), but the other three are still ongoing.


----------



## The Big G (Jul 10, 2012)




----------



## Petes12 (Jul 11, 2012)

thoughts on snyder's batman run so far? since this was the big court of owls finale


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 12, 2012)

you know what's weird is brett booth's art kinda sucks... except when you look at his sketches on his blog and his costume designs which are generally pretty solid looking


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> thoughts on snyder's batman run so far? since this was the big court of owls finale



Overall good, but the last issue really didn't do anything for me. Villain monologue overdose.



Petes12 said:


> you know what's weird is brett booth's art kinda sucks... except when you look at his sketches on his blog and his costume designs which are generally pretty solid looking



Yeah I noticed this as well. I like a lot of his designs, and his sketches are great. Weird that his ongoing art is so mediocre.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 12, 2012)

It was great. . . and then it ended good. Which is alright.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2012)

Yeah, overall it was good, kinda hoped it'd measure up to black mirror though.

But the ending was more mediocre for me. Lincoln talking too much, Bats holding on to a jet engine, randomly jumping? to the wing, and then using a voice command bat rope was a bit much for me.

Can someone explain what the voice command did by the way?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 12, 2012)

> Gail Simone's Batgirl will show why Barbara Gordon became Batgirl in the zero issue, and an upcoming annual will feature Catwoman and the female Talon from her "Night of the Owls" tie-in issue, which Simone referred to as "the dark side of the mirror of Birds of Prey." *Ed Benes is joining Batgirl as the regular artist. Simone stated that when she works with Ed Benes, there is "some sort of sparky magic action beauty." Simone noted that Benes is fantastic at portraying varying different emotions, including in the context of an action scene.*


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 13, 2012)

Huh, so DC is bringing Tim Hunter back. I'm a little terrified of how he's going to be depicted in this Extreme Dark 90s DC...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 13, 2012)

Meh, Lemire's good, JLD's good, so I think it'll be okay.


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 13, 2012)

Badass underage rider without a helmet while there is a helmet in front of his bike... priceless. :33


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 13, 2012)

Rumour is Steph in Smallville is being replaced by Barabara Gordon.

If so I think whatever I last bought from DC will be the last money they see from me. It's one thing to bench a character, it's quite another to having marketing step into the creative process in such a huge manner after already advertising she'd be joining the book.

It's basically a message to not get attached to any characters unless they're the pet of a writer too important for us to fire.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 13, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Rumour is Steph in Smallville is being replaced by Barabara Gordon.
> 
> If so I think whatever I last bought from DC will be the last money they see from me. It's one thing to bench a character, it's quite another to having marketing step into the creative process in such a huge manner after already advertising she'd be joining the book.
> 
> It's basically a message to not get attached to any characters unless they're the pet of a writer too important for us to fire.



Wow, really hoping that's not true. Honestly, I can understand DC wanting to have their characters match up across various media, but given how small of a book smallville is (and the fact that it's not even a batman book) it just comes across like they genuinely have a vendetta against the character.


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 13, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Rumour is Steph in Smallville is being replaced by Barabara Gordon.
> 
> If so I think whatever I last bought from DC will be the last money they see from me. It's one thing to bench a character, it's quite another to having marketing step into the creative process in such a huge manner after already advertising she'd be joining the book.
> 
> It's basically a message to not get attached to any characters unless they're the pet of a writer too important for us to fire.


Gotta respect DC's determination to make Babs the one true Batgirl.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 13, 2012)

I feel like DC is trolling me...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2012)

jesus dc's editorial needs to be put down


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 13, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> Gotta respect DC's determination to make Babs the one true Batgirl.



The idea of a "one true" batgirl is ridiculous. I really don't get how it's a zero sum game, like Steph and Cass's mere existence would automatically make her less "Batgirl".

Hint, if you have to downplay / completely remove other characters in order to build up another as the one true anything, you're doing it wrong.

And really, by altering her character in order to fit the batgirl "role" or whatever, they've removed most of what initially endeared me to the character in the first place.

This is definitely my biggest gripe with the new 52. I'm not being unrealistic here. I'm not demanding a Steph/Cass ongoing, although I think it's really weird that they're ignoring 2 characters that there is a clear demand for. All I want is some acknowledgment that they exist, just a throwaway line that gives them some sort of status quo. Steph at college, Cass walking the earth, whatever.

Now, admittedly with some characters I get it. Wally is really hard to make work when so much of his character development is built around something that never happened.


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 13, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> The idea of a "one true" batgirl is ridiculous. I really don't get how it's a zero sum game, like Steph and Cass's mere existence would automatically make her less "Batgirl".
> 
> Hint, if you have to downplay / completely remove other characters in order to build up another as the one true anything, you're doing it wrong.


Obviously DC is making the whole deal get more and more ridiculous. They're so determined that they won't "tolerate" any other character like Steph or Cass that might become a threat to their idea. 

Guess people are bound to to things like this when they become overconfident and reeks off the "we can't be wrong cause we're awesome" vibe.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 13, 2012)

Hopefully I'm overreacting, admittedly we're still not even a year in, and I understand them focusing so much on the silver age characters, since they're pretty much the foundations of the DCU. Im hoping that the zero issues will go more into these characters pasts so we can get some kind of idea of what the new history is.

Of course, while this gives them a chance to acknowledge these characters it also gives them the chance to boldly ignore them. For instance, if Batgirl 0 delves into Babs time in the chair but there is no mention of Cass or Steph,  to me that's DC plainly stating the characters don't exist, or that their stories do not exist.


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 13, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> For instance, if Batgirl 0 delves into Babs time in the chair but there is no mention of Cass or Steph,  to me that's DC plainly stating the characters don't exist, or that their stories do not exist.



Actually, I'd rather Cass or Steph NOT be mentioned in the #0 issue. Because if they are, DC will likely have done some bullshit like having them die while Barbara was Oracle so she could easily reclaim the Batgirl mantle once she recovered. Not to mention Bruce's backstory has the whole Robin legacy rushed as it is so let's not add the Batgirl legacy to the madness. I'm patient, I'm sure the two other Batgirls will show up eventually, but it's barely been a year and I don't see why it has to happen so soon.


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 13, 2012)

I also say DC is better off not showing those two instead off showing them for a brief time and then shunting them aside to further secure Bab's mantle. No character deserves similar treatment to what Artemis got in Teen Titans.


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 13, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> No character deserves similar treatment to what Artemis got in Teen Titans.



That was some fucking "Ultimatum" bullshit right there. I'm not sure if it was Lobdell's idea or an editorial decision, but seriously it felt like somebody was just giving the middle finger to the Young Justice cartoon fans right there.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2012)

on a more positive note 
this beats the shit out of those lantern rings


----------



## Parallax (Jul 13, 2012)

That is pretty cool


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 14, 2012)

Doom85 said:


> That was some fucking "Ultimatum" bullshit right there. I'm not sure if it was Lobdell's idea or an editorial decision, but seriously it felt like somebody was just giving the middle finger to the Young Justice cartoon fans right there.


It was painful but to be totally honest it didn't hurt the YJ fan in me that much. Maybe cause Earth-16 is Earth-16 and New Earth is New Earth. 


Petes12 said:


> on a more positive note
> this beats the shit out of those lantern rings


Man, that's cool.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 14, 2012)

Oh wow, they're being very douchey about it too:





> According to Comic Book Resources? report, a fan dressed as Stephanie Brown approached the microphone to ask whether the character would appear as Nightwing next month in the digital-first Smallville Season 11, as the publisher announced last month, or whether there was truth to the rumor that she is being replaced by Barbara Gordon. Unfortunately for the fan, writer Bryan Q. Miller wasn?t on the panel as scheduled (he arrived late to San Diego), and the response she did receive was ? let?s say unhelpful, and maybe a little flippant.
> 
> ?The first rumor wasn?t known by us,? DC?s Vice President of Marketing John Cunningham replied, ?and I have not heard of the second in the halls of DC, so I can?t comment.?
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 14, 2012)

well they clarified they didn't know because that was up to dc digital or something, and the fan actually said lobdell was pretty nice to her, soooo that account doesn't seem totally accurate


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 15, 2012)




----------



## spectre991 (Jul 15, 2012)

*sniff* poor Wally.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 15, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> *sniff* poor Wally.



wally, hawkgirl, huntress  didio


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 15, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> wally, hawkgirl, huntress  didio


From what I know Huntress (Earth-2 version) already appeared in World's Finest. Hawkgirl might appear in Hawkman soon. Ofc unlike Wally or the missing Batgirls, she never meant much to me in the first place.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 15, 2012)

didio is still a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 15, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> From what I know Huntress (Earth-2 version) already appeared in World's Finest. Hawkgirl might appear in Hawkman soon. Ofc unlike Wally or the missing Batgirls, she never meant much to me in the first place.



there's a hawkgirl in earth two.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 15, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> *sniff* poor Wally.



Is the Superman shirt kid the one from that modern Zod storyline?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 15, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> Oh wow, they're being very douchey about it too:



Nothing knew there. 



Doom85 said:


> Actually, I'd rather Cass or Steph NOT be mentioned in the #0 issue. Because if they are, DC will likely have done some bullshit like having them die while Barbara was Oracle so she could easily reclaim the Batgirl mantle once she recovered. Not to mention Bruce's backstory has the whole Robin legacy rushed as it is so let's not add the Batgirl legacy to the madness. I'm patient, I'm sure the two other Batgirls will show up eventually, but it's barely been a year and I don't see why it has to happen so soon.



I agree, I don't want Gail Simone touching either of them.


----------



## Glued (Jul 15, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> wally, hawkgirl, huntress  didio



Megatron: Say goodbye to the universe, Maximals. The future has changed, yes. The Autobots lose, EVIL TRIUMPHS! And these DC characters NO LONGER EXIST!!!


----------



## Slice (Jul 15, 2012)

Comment in Gabzillas link:



> ?They?re not. She?s simply Batgirl. The one that people remember. ?
> 
> What people? I?m 33 years old, and Babs has always been Oracle to me. I only know her as Batgirl from back issues older than I am.
> 
> ...



If you add Batman: TAS to that this is exactly my opinion.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 15, 2012)

and now it's whip whirlwind's turn to get mad- tim drake may or may not have never been robin in the new 52


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 15, 2012)

So much for the new DCU trying to clean up continuity: They were talking about Tim being a Robin in Batman and Robin 10.

A month ago.


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 15, 2012)

What do you mean he's not a Robin? So he became Red Robin instantly and never worked with Batman?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> and now it's whip whirlwind's turn to get mad- tim drake may or may not have never been robin in the new 52





The Pink Ninja said:


> So much for the new DCU trying to clean up continuity: They were talking about Tim being a Robin in Batman and Robin 10.
> 
> A month ago.





It's not so bad, they've been fucking Tim up for years, why stop now? It's also hilarious if DC is contradicting themselves not even a year in. Tim was confirmed former Robin all the way back in Batman #1.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 15, 2012)

Plus, I believe he's confirmed as having been a Robin in the 'Damian punks the former Robins' arc that going on _right now_. Oh DC...


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 15, 2012)

And in _Teen Titans_


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 15, 2012)

dont worry he's an olympics athlete


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 15, 2012)

Most likely


----------



## Cromer (Jul 15, 2012)

Obviously DC is trying to summon that good old fashioned fanboy rage. Guess what DC, I DON'T give a darn ANYMORE!


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 16, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Most likely


Is it sad that I look at that and think 'that'd make a neat superhero costume'?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 16, 2012)

it does kind of look like the new captain marvel costume 

that costume would look so much better with black instead of blue though


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 16, 2012)

Confirmed:





> Following some confusion at Friday’s Superman panel, DC Comics confirmed today at Comic-Con International that Stephanie Brown won’t be appearing as Nightwing in Smallville Season 11. As rumored, she’ll be replaced by Barbara Gordon.





> On Friday, the fan who made headlines at last year’s convention as “the Batgirl of San Diego,” attended DC’s Superman panel in hopes of getting answers, but walked away with none. So today she returned for “The New Wave” panel, where Co-Publisher Dan DiDio delivered the official news: Stephanie Brown is out, and Barbara Gordon is in.
> 
> “That is true, and there’s a reason for it,” DiDio said in response to the fan’s question, noting that he supported the change from the original plan, as it falls in line with the Smallville practice of bringing the iconic versions of DC heroes into that television world. “If we’re going to introduce a character into the ‘Smallville’ world, I want them to be the most iconic versions like Barbara Gordon or Dick Grayson, and maybe down the road we can do more.”
> 
> Of course, the iconic version of Nightwing would be Dick Grayson, and not Barbara Gordon.




The iconic thing they always cite is so slippery; it can mean whatever is convenient for them.

I can't.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2012)




----------



## Slice (Jul 16, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Is it sad that I look at that and think 'that'd make a neat superhero costume'?



Mainly it is proof that such costume dont work irl. 


poor Steph


I'm not what you would call a Batgirl fan - in fact the only thing Batgirl i own is 'Year One' (and that is mainly because of the art) but the way they are handling this is so stupid.

They decided to use the original versions of the characters, ok no problem back to Barabara Gordon and Barry Allen it is. But then why isnt Dick Grayson Robin?

The way they react to all these fan requests and hopes is just alienating the very fans they need to survive. Its not like they can afford to lose a lot of readers. At least give them _something_. 
I enjoyed the BQM run on Batgirl because of how he handles the character and not because it had "Batgirl" on the title. There isnt even need for a whole solo book just some appearances here and there or maybe a team up once in a while.

GM used Cass Cain for like 4 panels in Batman: Inc and i was happy with that. Because at least it showed she was still there and doing stuff. Its better than "_You know that guy that was the Flash for 25(?) years? Forget him, hes gone, have back the Original your parents read about when they were 1_0"


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 16, 2012)

IMO even DC had to bend to popular demands when it came to the Robins. So they had to get Damien for Robin while also having the older three, ultimately cramming all four of them in the continuity very quickly.

Ofc Tim not being a Robin after being confirmed more than once before is just crazy.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2012)

It pisses me off, because when it comes to the character that I like (not love), DC is putting out great stuff. Now if they'd stop taking the characters I really care about and destroying them we'd be in business.

And I don't think I've ever seen the word "iconic" used in a way that I liked. It seems like the only time I see that used is when they can't come up with any other reason for *insert change X*.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2012)

But continuity doesn't matter.

I mean before the reboot everything was a mess. Did it bother you?

No

Would you care Cass showed up in Gotham even though she is supposed to be in Hong Kong?

No

It's silly

I think everyone prefer a continuity that doesn't make sense and preserves what we love about the BatFam rather than one that ruins them AND doesn't make sense.


----------



## Slice (Jul 16, 2012)

I would want them to give a clear statement:

We are not bringing back Wally because...
Cass is stuck "offscreen" in Hong Kong indefinately because...
Steph will / will not return as Spoiler and be retconned to never have been Batgirl because...

Even if that "because" is "we dont want to use the character anymore to reduce the overall number of characters and make it less complicated".

All this "maybe, maybe not", "our iconic characters", "original versions first", "New continuity for new readers" is total bullshit.

They are trying to cater to a target audience that doesnt exist. All those new readers the New 52 brought vanished by issue 4 if you look at the sales and those that stayed, well i guess an even number of old readers left.
Who are those people that remember actually reading about Barry Allen as the one true Flash and Barbara Gordon pre Oracle? Surely not me and i'm not that young anymore.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2012)

At least I know i'll be less grumpy once Young Justice is back on. It's funny, Babs is BG in that show, but I'm totally confident if they wanted to they could bring in Steph as Spoiler and it'd be great. 

What gets me is that Young Justice makes fitting in the different generations look so easy, that it's kind of funny how awful DC is at it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 16, 2012)

That show is all about the sidekicks though. They'd never do that if it were a justice league show. 

I get it with wally tbh. 2 flashes was dumb.


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 16, 2012)

Well, I can understand why they kept all the Robins. Morrison had more plans for the Damien storyline apparently, and I would have been pretty pissed if Bart, Cassie, and Superboy had all met in TT but Tim hadn't been there.

I still am not that worried about Wally, Cassandra, etc. The one that I was more concerned about was Raven missing while Cyborg/Starfire/Beast Boy were all present. But lo and behold, she's been confirmed for TT. I'm sure Wally and co. will pop up eventually. I mean, they can't keep dead characters dead, why should missing characters be any different? Heck, I would rather a fave character stay missing as opposed to showing up out of nowhere and then getting brutally killed 20 pages later (Artemis).


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> That show is all about the sidekicks though. They'd never do that if it were a justice league show.



True, but they are still showing a very expansive DC Universe while including tons of characters and nearly all are done right. It's just some are focused on some arent, bottom line though they're all there. DC has a line of books that's "all about the sidekicks", it's just totally mediocre.   

Like look at the flash fam in YJ vs. the new 52. They've had very little time to really focus on that, mainly just one episode. But they've got jay, barry, wally, and bart all in one universe and all with their respective niches. It works. 



> I get it with wally tbh. 2 flashes was dumb.



I disagree, but I will say Wally is more troubling to implement since so much of his previous development was from something that hasn't happened.

Of course, "former kid flash who retired and off at college" just can't work for some reason.

Also, from marcus to's tumblr:

"With all the news this past weekend I just felt a need to do this little sketch. That’s all I’m gonna say. Now it’s time to get some sleep."


WANT


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 16, 2012)

Well I guess I'm weird cus I don't like the 'flash family'. I was never fond of 'grown up titans' either. 

Also I don't like capsule utility belts. ^

I honestly think the larger roster of sidekicks only works with batman, because those are just normal people inspired to fight alongside him


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 16, 2012)

I guess DC are stuck with the idea that would be readers sniffing around know most of their stuff from TV shows and stuff and to them Babs is still _the_ Batgirl (they don't know about the rest), or Dick/Tim is _the_ Robin (they never heard of Jason or Damien). 

Tbh that idea did hold some water maybe, I dunno, five years ago. But right now all those sniffing readers become wiki educated real soon. They learn about existence of awesome characters that never appeared on TV much (say Cass Cain) and they would rather pick up a comic book to know about those characters instead of those they're more acquainted with (say Babs). Overall DC seems to have some really wrong ideas about the crowd.

And tbh right now Wally is the Flash for most people. I wonder for how long DC would be able to keep him locked up in nowhere. 


Whip Whirlwind said:


> Also, from marcus to's tumblr:
> 
> "With all the news this past weekend I just felt a need to do this little sketch. That’s all I’m gonna say. Now it’s time to get some sleep."
> 
> ...


Puh-weety! :33


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2012)




----------



## gabzilla (Jul 16, 2012)

ghstwrld said:


> The iconic thing they always cite is so slippery; it can mean whatever is convenient for them.
> 
> I can't.



It's a bunch of bullshit.







Slice said:


> I would want them to give a clear statement:
> 
> We are not bringing back Wally because...
> Cass is stuck "offscreen" in Hong Kong indefinately because...
> ...



The audience of Babsgirl fans that hate Oracle/Steph/Cass exists. And it's very _very_ vocal.



spectre991 said:


> I guess DC are stuck with the idea that would be readers sniffing around know most of their stuff from TV shows and stuff and to them Babs is still _the_ Batgirl (they don't know about the rest), or Dick/Tim is _the_ Robin (they never heard of Jason or Damien).
> 
> Tbh that idea did hold some water maybe, I dunno, five years ago. But right now all those sniffing readers become wiki educated real soon. They learn about existence of awesome characters that never appeared on TV much (say Cass Cain) and they would rather pick up a comic book to know about those characters instead of those they're more acquainted with (say Babs). Overall DC seems to have some really wrong ideas about the crowd.
> 
> ...



Iconic = characters Didio and co like.


----------



## Slice (Jul 16, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> The audience of Babsgirl fans that hate Oracle/Steph/Cass exists. And it's very _very_ vocal.



To be honest, i am surprised.

How can you hate Oracle? If anything _that_ was an iconic character.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I honestly think the larger roster of sidekicks only works with batman, because those are just normal people inspired to fight alongside him



I think part of the issue is that DC pigeonholes most of it's younger characters as just sidekicks.

Like nevermind that Steph is a young female heroine that is easy to relate to, she's a batgirl and we don't know what to do with another batgirl. Or Cass, she's not a character that could be used to showcase the martial arts corner of the DCU, she's a former Batgirl.

I could go on, but basically I think DC is very quick to define it's characters by their mantles and powers, when that isn't what endears people to the characters in the first place.

I mean Didio looked at Nightwing at one point and thought "well, he's not Robin, and he's not batman, so....pointless and prime for event death?". Like there's no way that anybody would want to read about Nightwing as Nightwing.

EDIT: Oh and I thought this was kind of implied but, this is how he looked at NIGHTWING. A character who once lead a franchise that overtook X-Men in sales. I can't even imagine how he views characters like Cass and Steph.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 16, 2012)

Slice said:


> To be honest, i am surprised.
> 
> How can you hate Oracle? If anything _that_ was an iconic character.



Cause she doesn't go around jumping rooftops in a tight suit.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Cause she doesn't go around jumping rooftops in a tight suit.



Honestly when I heard about this reboot I was totally okay with Babs getting her legs back. Looking at what Young Justice did with Robin, I think you could definitely have Oracle as a mobile, active, tech based hero.

But that's not "iconic" enough.


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 16, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Honestly when I heard about this reboot I was totally okay with Babs getting her legs back. Looking at what Young Justice did with Robin, I think you could definitely have Oracle as a mobile, active, tech based hero.
> 
> But that's not "iconic" enough.


*Imagines Babs hacking about a dozen motion sensors in half a minute* Gawd that would be cool.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 17, 2012)

As someone pointed out, the digital, internet Oracle from Batman Inc was perfect for her. You could keep what was best about Oracle, limit her being a plot device in everyone else's stories and have her be fully mobile inside the virtual reality net world.

Serious missed opportunity



> *The one conclusion that is certain is that whatever was said publicly, it’s clear DC Editorial in New York simply does not want Stephanie Brown to appear anywhere. Checking around with several sources, I was informed both Steph and former Batgirl Cassandra Cain (now known as Black Bat) were considered “toxic.”*


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 17, 2012)

I'd say maybe they're worried about screwing it up again, but BQM and Marcus To seem like they would be quite eager to do something like a digital steph/cass mini series.

Really, in this kind of situation where sales have been not so hot (Batgirl's sales were low), but there's a lot of chatter/demand/groups/whatever for the character, wouldn't a digital mini make a lot of sense?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2012)




----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2012)

Barbara Gordon?


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 18, 2012)

Where did you get Barbara Gordon from? The image is most likely meant to reference how in Suicide Squad they've been saying Joker was killed and his face was skinned off. I only have the first trade of SS (issues 1-7), not sure if they elaborate anymore after that, but I assumed Snyder's upcoming arc would reveal how Joker's still alive and what the current condition of his face is.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 18, 2012)

It was a joke, cheese for brains.



> Batgirl Corps #1
> 
> Because the fans demanded it you got it! The team-up you’ve all wanted. Can Barbara Gordon assemble the team of Barbara Gordon, Barbara Gordon and fan-favourite Gordon Barbara Gordon to meet the rising threat of the dastardly Barbara Gordon?
> 
> ...


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 18, 2012)

^DC always loved their clones.


----------



## Id (Jul 18, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Barbara Gordon?



Jesus Capullo doing art for Batman? Yes Please :33


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2012)

where've you been the last year


----------



## Parallax (Jul 18, 2012)

Capullo has been doing the art since issue 1


----------



## Id (Jul 18, 2012)

I have stayed away from Nu DC, with the exception of the Green Lantern titles.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Jul 18, 2012)

Finally got a preview on Animal Man #11 and it sounds amazing cant wait for it.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 18, 2012)

Slice said:


> To be honest, i am surprised.
> 
> How can you hate Oracle? If anything _that_ was an iconic character.



Because good DC things from a couple decades ago can't catch a break nowadays. Ask Ostrander's Suicide Squad and Giffen's Justice League. Truncated collection releases each, raped and killed characters in the 00s...

Maybe there's also some overlap from people who take Moore's criticism of Killing Joke to heart and hate everything that came from it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 18, 2012)

Slice said:


> To be honest, i am surprised.
> 
> How can you hate Oracle? If anything _that_ was an iconic character.



One thing I remember hearing a lot of on the DC Boards (a wretched hive of scum and villainy if I ever saw one), is that her handicap is what was keeping her as a supporting character.

These people considered her role in Birds of Prey as a support role, oddly enough.

Now the only complaint I do sorta agree with is that while her being confined to a wheelchair makes sense in the bat verse, it's harder to accept in the context of the DC Universe as a whole. Basically that with the level of technology / magic in the DCU it's odd that there wasn't some option of recovery for her.

That, and when Damian had an incredibly similar injury but was back in action like 3 issues later. I can see why that would piss them off.


----------



## Rukia (Jul 19, 2012)

I love Black Canary.  I really do.  But I might have to quit reading if it the horrible art continues.  Have you guys seen issue 11?  This is fucking awful.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 19, 2012)

are you talking about birds of prey rukia or does black canary have her own book. Cause the artwork in birds of prey seems decent at best.


----------



## Rukia (Jul 19, 2012)

Birds of Prey.  Hasn't the artist changed a few times already during this 11 issue run?  I just know that the art in this last issue bothered the crap out of me.

Nice twist with Ivy.  Just wish the art had been better.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 19, 2012)

just look at the preview for issue 11, it seems TRAVEL FOREMAN drawing, I could also tell. I've seen some of his artwork from penciljack forum, he seemed pretty good.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 19, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I love Black Canary.  I really do.  But I might have to quit reading if it the horrible art continues.  Have you guys seen issue 11?  This is fucking awful.



There were two artists and two inkers. That may have contributed.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 19, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Birds of Prey.  Hasn't the artist changed a few times already during this 11 issue run?  I just know that the art in this last issue bothered the crap out of me.
> 
> Nice twist with Ivy.  Just wish the art had been better.



art switched to travel foreman with like issue 9 or something. he was on animal man previously and kicked ass, and i liked his issues of BoP but i heard issue 11 had some fill in art and 2 different inkers on foremans art


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jul 20, 2012)

so anyone reading black lightning blue devil?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 20, 2012)

Wouldn't surpise me at this point 




Whip Whirlwind said:


> One thing I remember hearing a lot of on the DC Boards (a wretched hive of scum and villainy if I ever saw one), *is that her handicap is what was keeping her as a supporting character.*
> 
> These people considered her role in Birds of Prey as a support role, oddly enough.
> 
> ...



Bollocks.

The main issue they have with Oracle is that they can't fap to her.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 20, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Wouldn't surpise me at this point
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bollocks. I fapped to Oracle just fine back in the day. What I really liked about her though is that, much more than Nightwing, she'd broken free of the shadow of the Bat.


----------



## Slice (Jul 20, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Bollocks.
> 
> The main issue they have with Oracle is that they can't fap to her.



I dont understand... 
Those people are confirmed for having no taste in women.

Wheelchair or not, she was more attractive as Oracle. The whole de-ageing thing did nothing for me. 


*Spoiler*: __ 





pek


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 20, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Bollocks. I fapped to Oracle just fine back in the day. What I really liked about her though is that, much more than Nightwing, she'd broken free of the shadow of the Bat.





Slice said:


> I dont understand...
> Those people are confirmed for having no taste in women.
> 
> Wheelchair or not, she was more attractive as Oracle. The whole de-ageing thing did nothing for me.
> ...



I'm talking about deranged Babsgirl fans.  I've seen some of them say she looks too "old"


----------



## Slice (Jul 20, 2012)

- Late 20s, _possibly_ early 30s
- Old

I want to punch those people.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 20, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I love Black Canary.  I really do.  But I might have to quit reading if it the horrible art continues.  Have you guys seen issue 11?  This is fucking awful.
> 
> *@ birds of prey*



I have it, but I haven't read it yet. Mostly 'cause I don't want to be disappointed ('cause I love BC).


----------



## spectre991 (Jul 21, 2012)

Slice said:


> I dont understand...
> Those people are confirmed for having no taste in women.
> 
> Wheelchair or not, she was more attractive as Oracle. The whole de-ageing thing did nothing for me.
> ...


Gawd gotta love this pic.


----------



## Mikaveli (Jul 23, 2012)

Alright, so what ongoings would you guys recommend?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 23, 2012)

Batman
Action Comics
Swamp Thing

that's pretty much it from my end


----------



## Mikaveli (Jul 23, 2012)

Appreciate it


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 23, 2012)

Animal Man, Justice League Dark, I Vampire, Wonder Woman, and Demon Knights are great reads as well.


----------



## Narutossss (Jul 23, 2012)

Super Goob said:


> Alright, so what ongoings would you guys recommend?



batman the dark knight written and drawn by david finch is a must read.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 24, 2012)

morrison's leaving action comics with issue 16


----------



## Rukia (Jul 24, 2012)

Batman Inc not being released this month because of the tragedy.  FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCK!


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 24, 2012)

Super Goob said:


> Alright, so what ongoings would you guys recommend?



this is relatively in order starting with the best

my favorites:
Batman 
Wonder Woman
Swamp Thing
Batman Inc
Action Comics
Animal Man

runner ups:
Demon Knights
Flash
Aquaman
Green Lantern
Justice League
Batman and Robin
Batwoman
Earth 2

Those are all pretty good. I've stopped reading a lot of stuff that eventually I got kinda bored of, but might be worth checking out, like Justice League Dark or Blue Beetle or the other GL books


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 24, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Batman Inc not being released this month because of the tragedy.  FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCK!



what why? is there some theater shooting scene in it :S


----------



## Doom85 (Jul 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> what why? is there some theater shooting scene in it :S



Actually, according to the article I read, there is.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Jul 25, 2012)

> Personal Picks:
> Wonder Woman
> Swamp Thing
> Flash
> ...



My suggestions


----------



## Slice (Jul 25, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Batman
> Wonder Woman
> Swamp Thing
> Batman Inc
> ...



Flawless list, though not necessarily in that order


----------



## Rod (Jul 25, 2012)

I know I'm late but just now I read Batman: Earth One  by G. Johns and G. Frank

So much win cannot be expressed, Alfred with a shotgun, suck the big one fothermuckers   !!!


----------



## Mikaveli (Jul 26, 2012)

Appreciate the list guys. Hopefully once I'm caught up I can post a little more here


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 30, 2012)

So did anyone else find the prophecy from the book of black to be hilarious?

I mean we have the Book of Oa, which says:

*Spoiler*: __ 





> after untold millenia, the enemies of the Green Lantern Corps will rise united against them.
> 
> The Corps shall be destroyed to the last life-form. The Planet Oa shall be as dust.
> 
> ...






If that's too much text, just read the end about demons dancing in the ruins of Oa to the rhythm of drums bound with taut blue(yea) skin. 

But now we have the book of black, which is the book of the guys who caused the blackest night, which says:

*Spoiler*: __ 



 Nah that's not gonna end well, BUT AFTER THAT OMG THIRD ARMY!




Whoever wrote this book was quite the debbie downer. Or maybe Nekron's playing the long game?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 31, 2012)

So um...


----------



## Whimsy (Jul 31, 2012)

That has to be a joke...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 31, 2012)

Whimsy said:


> That has to be a joke...



It's not...either our new arab green lantern sucks, or he hasn't got the hang of creating constructs yet


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 31, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> It's not...either our new arab green lantern sucks, or he hasn't got the hang of creating constructs yet



Is this about the gun thing?

Because honestly, given the fact that lanterns can use lethal force now, a GL NOT carrying some form of sidearm is retarded. How often does a GL run out of juice in a hostile enviroment? Once a week?

Admittedly, it's the arab lantern, and...yeah. But I don't think the idea alone is that terrible. Making it the most prominent aspect on the cover introducing the new minority character is on the other hand, pretty terrible.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 31, 2012)

oh man that doesn't look bad at all


----------



## Bergelmir (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh lord. Every time I see that face mask it looks worse and worse. Thats just a terrible design.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 31, 2012)

Okay yeah it never gets better. DC...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 31, 2012)

apparently the gun is his backup because the green lanterns are under threat of being shut down by the guardians, or something

i find it odd that geoff thought we needed another human lantern though


----------



## Rod (Aug 1, 2012)

It's kind of upsetting sometimes. Getting characters because they're Gay, Jew, Black, whatever... Other than a real essence/necessity behind. Redundancy feelings.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 1, 2012)

time to kill kyle


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm actually little worried about Kyle. In that vision at the end of GL 11, Kyle was the only human Lantern not there.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 1, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I'm actually little worried about Kyle. In that vision at the end of GL 11, Kyle was the only human Lantern not there.



Don't have the issue on hand, but I'm pretty sure Kyle is the red lantern in the corner.

But I wouldn't be surprised if they kill off Kyle, sadly.


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 1, 2012)

^That Red Lantern probably was Kyle. He had Kyle's "crab mask".


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 1, 2012)

Oh thats Kyle. I assumed that was Hal.

Hurmmm, now I'm wondering why Hal isn't part of the vision...

Either way, I really can't wait to see the circumstances that result in Atrocitus leading the Manhunters. Thats just messed up. And I guess the return of the Manhunters means the return of the Cyborg Superman. Should be neat to see how much crazier he's become.


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 1, 2012)

Maybe Hal wasn't part of the vision to hint he is the big player here who is destined to mess around with destiny, so his fate is still unknown. 

BTW was John there?


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 1, 2012)

Yeah, John is there. He's being attacked by the Guardians.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2012)

i would fucking laugh forever if they killed off one poc for another


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 2, 2012)

Aaaah, I love it when Batman acts all suspicious while simultaneously being friendly. It cracked me up when he just innocently slips a Bat-tracer on Clark while comforting him in this weeks Action Comics.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 2, 2012)

That was pretty funny.

Anybody read Swamp Thing? I love how Socks is giving this super dire speech about rotworld and all I can do is laugh at how sad he looks.

And E2 Atom and Ult. Cap would be such great friends.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 6, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> That was pretty funny.
> 
> Anybody read Swamp Thing? I love how Socks is giving this super dire speech about rotworld and all I can do is laugh at how sad he looks.
> 
> And E2 Atom and Ult. Cap would be such great friends.



Hey now that was pretty legit speech there . 

Havent received my issues of action comics in a while wonder what is the hold up .


----------



## ZERO PHOENIX (Aug 15, 2012)

I don't read comics often enough to keep up with the regular continuum so I tend to buy the volumes once they're released. With that said even if the New 52 messes things up I can take it with a grain of salt. 

Read Superboy Volume 1 and I thought it was pretty good. It wasn't as action packed as I would have liked but it's very introspective with regards to Superboy discovering himself or rather, struggling to do so. His angst wasn't overdone or anything and it felt believable. Only issue I had with it was that they set up one of the chapters where Superboy was going after the Teen Titans. Next panel they're all unconscious with Superboy standing over them. According to him it wasn't even a challenge. I mean shit that's badass and cool for someone following the comics regularly but now I need to pick up TT to see that titanic ass whoopin.

Still, it was actually interesting enough to motivate me to look into the TT. I was never a fan and I thought the cartoon was good, not great but good. Also interested in picking up Nightwing.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 15, 2012)

So thoughts on the joker's belt face?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 15, 2012)

i'll decide when i see a better version by capullo


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 15, 2012)

ZERO PHOENIX said:


> I don't read comics often enough to keep up with the regular continuum so I tend to buy the volumes once they're released. With that said even if the New 52 messes things up I can take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> Read Superboy Volume 1 and I thought it was pretty good. It wasn't as action packed as I would have liked but it's very introspective with regards to Superboy discovering himself or rather, struggling to do so. His angst wasn't overdone or anything and it felt believable. Only issue I had with it was that they set up one of the chapters where Superboy was going after the Teen Titans. Next panel they're all unconscious with Superboy standing over them. According to him it wasn't even a challenge. I mean shit that's badass and cool for someone following the comics regularly but now I need to pick up TT to see that titanic ass whoopin.
> 
> Still, it was actually interesting enough to motivate me to look into the TT. I was never a fan and I thought the cartoon was good, not great but good. Also interested in picking up Nightwing.


TT comics are way different from the cartoon. Like it has real character and stories, characters use their real names in the comics and don't wear their customs 24-7. 

But seems like the new 52 Titans is a bit messed up. Almost every review says it's way too much like the 90's X-Men, all the characters got downgraded when it comes to personality and character. In a nutshell it took out a good bit of what made TT lovable. That Lobdell guy messed things up real bad.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 15, 2012)

Eh TT was garbage before the reboot too, unfortunately.


----------



## The World (Aug 15, 2012)

Who is this H'el guy

Looks familiar

Like Superboy-Prime familiar or Bizarro familiar


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 15, 2012)

is new 52 Supergirl some kind of Super Genius that they're actually hyping this He'l chap by saying he's smarter than her?


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 15, 2012)

I stopped reading Supergirl after the Worldbreakers arc, but isn't Kara supposed to be a science major or something? I vaguely remember a reference to her passing trials or something. And since increased intelligence is a Kryptonian ability, I guess its implied that she's become super duper smart now?


But that kinda looks like what I'd expect from a nuDC Match. H'el(what a stupid name) does look kinda cool, kinda like a barbarian. And maybe its the the hair and scars, but he reminds of me of Kaine Parker.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 15, 2012)

The World said:


> Who is this H'el guy
> 
> Looks familiar
> 
> Like Superboy-Prime familiar or Bizarro familiar



apparently DC is still trying to decide if it's the new version of bizarro or if they should just say its a new character. but bizarro is at least the inspiration


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 15, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> is new 52 Supergirl some kind of Super Genius that they're actually hyping this He'l chap by saying he's smarter than her?



poor supergirl, officially dumber than bizarro :/


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 15, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> But seems like the new 52 Titans is a bit messed up. Almost every review says it's way too much like the 90's X-Men, all the characters got downgraded when it comes to personality and character. In a nutshell it took out a good bit of what made TT lovable. That Lobdell guy messed things up real bad.



Lobdell didn't downgrade anything when it comes to personality and character. Maybe Cassie, but her character's been trash ever since Graduation Day, so there was nowhere to go but up.

But Tim is more awkward, less Batman lite. Kid Flash is actually funny and goofy again. And while Superboy is very different, I'd say it's a case of different =! worse.

Unfortunately, Lobdell's dialogue is unbearable. In my opinion they should have Nicieza co write on TT, since he's the exact opposite of Lobdell (meh story/direction, good dialogue).


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 15, 2012)

^I guess that sums it up. That Lobdell needs help from someone who thinks differently. His style in't quite going with the characters.


The World said:


> Who is this H'el guy
> 
> Looks familiar
> 
> ...


At least he looks kinda cool. Poor Kon, he had to be the punching bag to hype this guy.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 15, 2012)

New 52 did a lot of right though. 

Flash
Aquaman
Outlaws
Animal Man
Swamp Thing 

Are all refreshing imo.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Lobdell didn't downgrade anything when it comes to personality and character. Maybe Cassie, but her character's been trash ever since Graduation Day, so there was nowhere to go but up.
> 
> But Tim is more awkward, less Batman lite. Kid Flash is actually funny and goofy again. And while Superboy is very different, I'd say it's a case of different =! worse.



At least this Superboy has somewhat a personality.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 15, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> ^I guess that sums it up. That Lobdell needs help from someone who thinks differently. His style in't quite going with the characters.



I actually mean the opposite. His thinking is fine, and he gets the characters. He just needs to stop with all the ridiculous exposition and let the art do more of the talking. 

Teen Titans should take a queue from DCU presents and just do a Kid Flash recap page every issue.


----------



## ZERO PHOENIX (Aug 15, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> TT comics are way different from the cartoon. Like it has real character and stories, characters use their real names in the comics and don't wear their customs 24-7.
> 
> But seems like the new 52 Titans is a bit messed up. Almost every review says it's way too much like the 90's X-Men, all the characters got downgraded when it comes to personality and character. In a nutshell it took out a good bit of what made TT lovable. That Lobdell guy messed things up real bad.



I appreciate your blunt honesty. You seriously saved me some cash. I'll probably just get the comic where they take on Superboy since I want to see how it went down. I mean I know he beat the hell out of them but I need to "see" it.  Nightwing still looks good though.






Nightblade said:


> is new 52 Supergirl some kind of Super Genius that they're actually hyping this He'l chap by saying he's smarter than her?



Is he 01? I ask because on the second page of Superboy issue one I noticed the big-ass 02 on Superboy's tank.


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I actually mean the opposite. His thinking is fine, and he gets the characters. He just needs to stop with all the ridiculous exposition and let the art do more of the talking.
> 
> Teen Titans should take a queue from DCU presents and just do a Kid Flash recap page every issue.


I dunno. Both KF and Bunker seem decent. But seems like Lobdell at least struggled to get Cassie right and turned her into some kinda hotheaded Naruto's Sakura esque character. The new Superboy is less fun than his 90's version. Many don't like the "Tim wasn't Robin" bit. Skitter got introduced and disappeared shortly before having much to do. Then there is ofc Artemis's intro and death in a single issue.   

Anyway so the Kid Flash solo was good? 

BTW anyone knows why the new Beastboy is red?


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 15, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> BTW anyone knows why the new Beastboy is red?



No specific reasons except as a reference to his affiliation to the Agents of The Red and connected to Animal Man. Remember Animal powers are connect to The Red?


----------



## Platinum (Aug 15, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> New 52 did a lot of right though.
> 
> Flash
> Aquaman
> ...



Not to mention:

JLD
I Vampire
Demon Knights

Also yeah he is red because his powers are now connected to the red.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 15, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> I dunno. Both KF and Bunker seem decent. But seems like Lobdell at least struggled to get Cassie right and turned her into some kinda hotheaded Naruto's Sakura esque character. The new Superboy is less fun than his 90's version. Many don't like the "Tim wasn't Robin" bit. Skitter got introduced and disappeared shortly before having much to do. Then there is ofc Artemis's intro and death in a single issue.
> 
> Anyway so the Kid Flash solo was good?
> 
> BTW anyone knows why the new Beastboy is red?



Cassie has always been hotheaded, so not sure what your point is there. 

EDIT: She wasn't hotheaded in TT, but imo WG maybe had one full issue worth of solid in character moments between graduation day and flashpoint. 

Superboy is less fun, but he's still interesting, and I think Bunker and KF fill the fun quota. YJ (show) isn't anything like 90s Superboy either, and is certainly not fun, still a cool take on the character though. I'm okay with different as long as it's not bad.

I'm not gonna judge Tim until I read the issue, but all else remaining equal (that's the iffy part) the only thing him going by (Red) Robin from start changes is that it probably led Jason to have a better first impression of him. He was still a "Robin" as far as 99% of the DCU goes. It's not like he saw the headline "Batman & Robin save the day" and marched down to the Gotham Gazette and demanded a correction. From what it sounds like the choice was a personal one in order to pay respect to the recently deceased (at the time) Jason Todd. 

And Artemis's debut/death was awesome. Excellent trolling. Not like she's a TT character anyway, even if I do really like her in YJ.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 15, 2012)

Damnit a year's gone by; I've got just 6 DC comics I'm still reading (Wonder Woman, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman, Nightwing, All-Star Western) What the hell happened to most of the books I was reading? 


Flash turned out to be so much flash, too little substance, Batwoman's just boring now, Night of the Owls filled my quota and beyond for the Bat, I'll probably get Action Comics in omnibus at some point...seriously killing my buzz, DC.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 15, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Damnit a year's gone by; I've got just 6 DC comics I'm still reading (Wonder Woman, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman, Nightwing, All-Star Western) What the hell happened to most of the books I was reading?
> 
> 
> Flash turned out to be so much flash, too little substance, Batwoman's just boring now, Night of the Owls filled my quota and beyond for the Bat, I'll probably get Action Comics in omnibus at some point...seriously killing my buzz, DC.



You didn't like any of the phase 2 books? Dial H has been pretty good


----------



## Cromer (Aug 15, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> You didn't like any of the phase 2 books? Dial H has been pretty good



I liked the first Issue of Dial H; Issue 2 remains unread due to chronic lack of appropriate time. China Mieville is an insane genius that demands I devote a special hour for that book...which I haven't been able to eke out. Probably after Ramadan, if anything.

And Inc. doesn't count as a new book, in my estimation. Still has a very 'old-DC' feel to it.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 15, 2012)

wonder woman 12 was packed with interesting new surprises. emphasis on new, ahem. 

*Spoiler*: __ 



 saw the betrayal with hermes coming a mile away
*Spoiler*: __ 



but I sure didn't expect the new gods to show up


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> wonder woman 12 was packed with interesting new surprises. emphasis on new, ahem.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



God yes, I love this book...I haven't enjoyed Wonder Woman this much in god knows how long.


*Spoiler*: __ 



also yeah...fucking Orion


----------



## Doom85 (Aug 15, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Cassie has always been hotheaded, so not sure what your point is there.
> 
> EDIT: She wasn't hotheaded in TT, but imo WG maybe had one full issue worth of solid in character moments between graduation day and flashpoint.
> 
> ...



I really like the TT characters generally too, I don't get the massive hate the book seems to get by most people. I can forgive Wonder Girl being a little more rough, to be fair Superboy did beat the crap out of her and her friends. Sure, most long-time heroes would shrug off getting sent flying across a city like another day at work, but she's only been a hero for a short time so I can understand her still being pissed at Superboy for it.

And Bunker and Kid Flash are lots of fun indeed. Solistice is okay character-wise, but her design is awesome. They do really need to give Skitter more character development because I connect with her the least of all the characters. I'm okay with Superboy, considering I read his intro in "Return of Superman" way after it came out I found his outfit so ridiculous that I couldn't take him seriously at all so at least it's better that that. I just got the first trade of the Superboy series and thought it was decent, a reasonable development in terms of someone who is literally just coming into the world. I love the scene where he confronts the two criminals who had massacred the restaurant, it felt like his first Superman-like moment and was cool.

Also, that wasn't trolling, that was giving the finger to YJ fans who like Artemis. After YJ repaired the damage Cry to Justice did to Liam fans you think the comic writers would learn to stop with this "cheap, meaningless shock death" (no one's shocked by death in fiction anymore, writers, so if you're going to kill someone make it with purpose) but nope we apparently haven't learned our lesson yet. The Culling could have been a so-so event, but that dumbass moment, the stupid "villain predicted EVERYTHING" bullshit, and having way too many characters to keep track of brought the event down. Luckily the Island arc after that has been much better.

At least, from what I've heard, it's better than what pre-Flashpoint Titans had become. I stopped reading TT after Geoff Johns left (around the time Jericho joined the team), but I've heard the title slowly descended in quality after that until it became a villains-centered book and was generally considered one of DC's shittiest titles.


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 16, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Cassie has always been hotheaded, so not sure what your point is there.
> 
> EDIT: She wasn't hotheaded in TT, but imo WG maybe had one full issue worth of solid in character moments between graduation day and flashpoint.
> 
> ...


Sometimes it seems Cassie is pushing it too far too often. Personally I like the original YJ Kon more than this Kon or the current YJ Kon, it's a matter of preference I guess. 

Artemis's death seemed intended to shock and start some fan rages from YJ viewers. It's like Lobdell was seeking some easy attention. 

Overall it's a matter of personal preference I guess. BTW I ain't saying the pre Flashpoint TT was better than the current one or anything.


----------



## Slice (Aug 16, 2012)

Dont know what to think about the character design or about introducing another "lol look at how crazy powerful he is" character but 'H'El on Earth' is a really stupid name for the crossover.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 16, 2012)

Eh, since the Bizarro's name is H'el, the arc name is... acceptable. Calling the Bizarro H'el was retarded to begin with, though.


----------



## Slice (Aug 16, 2012)

If he even is the new Bizarro and not just yet another addition made so they have someone that can smack around Kryptonians.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 16, 2012)

He's probably the latter. I'm just calling him a Bizarro 'cause of the backwards S sheild.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 16, 2012)

Doom85 said:


> Also, that wasn't trolling, that was giving the finger to YJ fans who like Artemis. After YJ repaired the damage Cry to Justice did to Liam fans you think the comic writers would learn to stop with this "cheap, meaningless shock death" (no one's shocked by death in fiction anymore, writers, so if you're going to kill someone make it with purpose) but nope we apparently haven't learned our lesson yet. The Culling could have been a so-so event, but that dumbass moment, the stupid "villain predicted EVERYTHING" bullshit, and having way too many characters to keep track of brought the event down. Luckily the Island arc after that has been much better.



That's what trolling is. The Culling was terrible, very few things would make it unterrible. 

I don't really mind it since I wouldn't want artemis (as she is in YJ) in the comics anyway. If they want an archer I'd rather they go with Arrowette or Speedy (Mia).



> At least, from what I've heard, it's better than what pre-Flashpoint Titans had become. I stopped reading TT after Geoff Johns left (around the time Jericho joined the team), but I've heard the title slowly descended in quality after that until it became a villains-centered book and was generally considered one of DC's shittiest titles.



Geoff Johns wasn't even that good. I mean it was decently written, but it was annoying how he radically changed Superboy, Wonder Girl, and Kid Flash for the purposes of the story. IMO, those WG and KF are more "in character" here than they were in Johns' TT. 



spectre991 said:


> Sometimes it seems Cassie is pushing it too far too often. Personally I like the original YJ Kon more than this Kon or the current YJ Kon, it's a matter of preference I guess.



Same here, but I'm open, and he's certainly more interesting than pre FP (post YJ) , where most of his "character" was moping around about his genes.

One thing I hope we can both agree on is that all interpretations of Superboy need to have awesome coke bottle glasses.



> Artemis's death seemed intended to shock and start some fan rages from YJ viewers. It's like Lobdell was seeking some easy attention.



Definitely, but it was kind of funny.



> Overall it's a matter of personal preference I guess. BTW I ain't saying the pre Flashpoint TT was better than the current one or anything.



Agreed. I'll say these characters have more potential than pre flashpoint TT, and KF, Tim, and Cassie are definitely closer to their YJ counterparts than their pre FP TT counterparts.

In other news,



Petes12 said:


> wonder woman 12 was packed with interesting new surprises. emphasis on new, ahem.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



*YES.*


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 16, 2012)

This week's Green Lantern Corps really has me liking the Guardians again. They make for a great villian team. More and more, I'm impressed with their scheming and manipulation. Almost to the point that its not hard to believe that all of the "screw ups" they've had in Johns' run aren't screw ups at all. Its just them cleaning house.


----------



## The World (Aug 16, 2012)

I did hear the new Wonder Woman stuff is good stuff

My fav collections are the Green Lantern Corps

Are the new 52 GL still any good?


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 16, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> That's what trolling is. The Culling was terrible, very few things would make it unterrible.


Yep. Culling was damn terrible. The only time it seemed okay was when Damien used Artemis's death's footage to torment Tim. For some reason I loved Tim's reaction to that.


> Agreed. I'll say these characters have more potential than pre flashpoint TT, and KF, Tim, and Cassie are definitely closer to their YJ counterparts than their pre FP TT counterparts


Totally agree with this.


> One thing I hope we can both agree on is that all interpretations of Superboy need to have awesome coke bottle glasses.


I so miss those glasses!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 16, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> Yep. Culling was damn terrible. The only time it seemed okay was when Damien used Artemis's death's footage to torment Tim. For some reason I loved Tim's reaction to that.



It was pretty amusing, although I'm starting to grow tired of Tim and Damian together. Whenever they get into a physical altercation it always makes Tim come off bad. Either he loses to an 11 year old, or he beats the crap out of an 11 year old.

Last person to write the Tim/Damian dynamic in an entertaining way for me was Yost.



> I so miss those glasses!



Same here, but this was a really awesome shout out:


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 17, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> It was pretty amusing, although I'm starting to grow tired of Tim and Damian together. Whenever they get into a physical altercation it always makes Tim come off bad. Either he loses to an 11 year old, or he beats the crap out of an 11 year old.
> 
> Last person to write the Tim/Damian dynamic in an entertaining way for me was Yost.


Just curious - what would be the rankings in a Robin combat prowess tier right now? I mean, is the current Damien meant to be better than Tim in fighting?
That was so done right.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2012)

I'd say Tim slightly edges out, but Damian is basically Dick's athleticism / agility with Tim's skill and Jason's ruthlessness (aside from killing...most of the time), imo by the time damian is 17/18 he'll be the best h2h fighter among the robins.


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 17, 2012)

^That pretty much fits the description they give for that Robin in The Dark Knight Rises. 

BTW is it said that Damien will sell his soul to the devil when he is 14? I think I once heard something like that.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> ^That pretty much fits the description they give for that Robin in The Dark Knight Rises.



Eh, blake was more of an amalgamation personality wise. Damian is more of an amalgamation skill wise.



> BTW is it said that Damien will sell his soul to the devil when he is 14? I think I once heard something like that.



Yeah I don't know what's gonna happen with that now that Grant's leaving superhero comics. Check out INC 5, that's another future damian issue.


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 18, 2012)

In other news, how is Blue Beetle doing? A few days ago I saw a Tumblr post saying it's most likely going to get cancelled in the next cut.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 18, 2012)

Man, Shade has been a pretty fun read. It had a shaky start, but now I'm sad its only got one issue left. I wish Robinson had been given a Shade ongoing to play with.


----------



## The World (Aug 18, 2012)

I have yet to finish my Robinson's Starman collection

I've got 5 volumes and have yet to pick up the 6th 

Always love how he portray's the Shade


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 18, 2012)

Ah, to still be reading Starman for the first time. I envy you. That was a magnificent series.


----------



## Doom85 (Aug 18, 2012)

I actually just got the first omnibus (the new paperback re-release, 2nd omnibus is out next month) of Robinson's Starman yesterday (along with the Batman: The Black Glove Deluxe omnibus). Haven't read it yet, but looking forward to it.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 19, 2012)

The Shade ending is really sad. 

It should be ongoing damn it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 20, 2012)

I have not read any of Starman or The Shade. Something tells me I should correct this ASAP?


----------



## Platinum (Aug 20, 2012)

> Scott Snyder ‏@Ssnyder1835
> @heckyeahkylep Riddler is a central part of a story coming in 2013.



Hell yes .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 20, 2012)

So long as it's not another event, awesome.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 20, 2012)

bleeding cool says Johns and Reis are leaving aquaman with issue 16. Reis will draw Justice League, which is great for that book.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 20, 2012)

Who's replacing them ?



Whip Whirlwind said:


> So long as it's not another event, awesome.



I don't think Riddler is the kind of guy you make an event around.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 21, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I have not read any of Starman or The Shade. Something tells me I should correct this ASAP?


Its a magnificent series. You should definitely read it.


----------



## Doom85 (Aug 22, 2012)

MAJOR spoiler revealed regarding Justice League #12:



*Spoiler*: __ 





Personally, I'm okay with the concept, but it seems poorly timed. Considering all the shit Steve's just gone through it just seems in poor taste for Diana to enter a relationship with Supes that will be publicized obviously and Steve will find out (unless they keep it a secret I suppose), or even worse if Steve is really dead then yeah, not exactly classy of you Diana.


----------



## E (Aug 22, 2012)

awe, i thought the spoiler was that JL was actually gonna get good


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 22, 2012)

Welp. Thats as terrible as I've come to expect from Johns' JL.

*sigh* I really hope Johns is taken off the book soon, or at least after this Pandora event bullcrap.

I guess this means the Trinity war thing won't be the Big 3 fighting each other, but the Big 3 fighting against everyone else.


----------



## Vault (Aug 22, 2012)

Doom85 said:


> MAJOR spoiler revealed regarding Justice League #12:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol what, hardly a spoiler. This was expected since they announced that Lois Lane won't be the love interest any more when the new 52 resumed. I read that it was something to do with Supes being unable to be intimate with humans iirc, obvious only WW can take it


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 22, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Welp. Thats as terrible as I've come to expect from Johns' JL.
> 
> *sigh* I really hope Johns is taken off the book soon, or at least after this Pandora event bullcrap.
> 
> I guess this means the Trinity war thing won't be the Big 3 fighting each other, but the Big 3 fighting against everyone else.



Or it could be the big 3 fighting each other in the form of Bats vs. Supes / WW.

"Superbros before superhos, man!"


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 22, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Or it could be the big 3 fighting each other in the form of Bats vs. Supes / WW.
> 
> "*Superbros before superhos, man!*"





10char


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2012)

I really don't care either way.

Remember when carlie cooper was the status quo for spider-man?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 22, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I really don't care either way.
> 
> Remember when carlie cooper was the status quo for spider-man?



Not really, since that only effects Spider-Man. Carlie can be easily written out and isn't integral to future spidey stories. With Wonder Woman and Justice League, that just isn't possible.

 I'd say this is more like Captain America dating Captain Marvel, but she's not even close to being on WW's level as far as significance to the marvel U goes.

....And i'd honestly be somewhat open to that pairing.

Ha actually the closest equivalent I can come up with is Tony and Steve hooking up.



Bergelmir said:


> 10char



I'm sure Hal could back him up by citing the book of broa.

/yes, i do think Hal should be the barney stinson of the justice league.


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 22, 2012)

As far as I know even Tony and Steve hooking up is pretty popular over at Tumblr. But this... honestly they're doing it?

I went WTF at first sight. I want to be open to the pairing but something inside me says it's all wrong.  


Whip Whirlwind said:


> Or it could be the big 3 fighting each other in the form of Bats vs. Supes / WW.
> 
> "Superbros before superhos, man!"


I so badly want this to happen...

BTW Hal as Barney Stinson... I approve!


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm just saying, they can date for a while, break up, and move on and its just one relationship in their respective comicbooky lives. It doesn't mean they're destined for each other 5everr!!! DC's OTP!


----------



## E (Aug 22, 2012)

next we're gonna have catman taking it up the ass from GL in earth 2


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2012)

hey e, go away

everyone else, flash 12 is the best issue in a while. best since that captain cold issue


----------



## Doom85 (Aug 22, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Or it could be the big 3 fighting each other in the form of Bats vs. Supes / WW.
> 
> "Superbros before superhos, man!"



Unlikely since the FCBD issue preview of Trinity War shows Superman saving Batman from the new Green Lantern.

Also, Superman and Wonder Woman were a possible consideration in the main canon before this, in Action Comics #600 there was a kiss and consideration of going out but they ultimately decided to be friends. So while they didn't go out I'm just pointing out that Elseworlds isn't the only place where this has been a possibility.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 22, 2012)

I know it is still soon but they better start get a move on in bringing the most down to Earth Flash there is ala Wally West.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 22, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> I know it is still soon but they better start get a move on in bringing the most down to Earth Flash there is ala Wally West.



Too soon? More like too late.

IMO, being kid flash is an integral part to wally west's character, his time with the titans is pretty important too. So the longer they go without mentioning him the more I'm convinced he just doesn't exist anymore.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 22, 2012)

Well they did went public about bringing back Wally West and Donna Troy after that fan uproar . I just hope they follow through with their promise. I have no problem if they introduce him a different way other than Kid Flash as long as he keeps his Parker like personality.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 22, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention. I've just been handed an urgent and glorious news story. I need all of you, to stop what you're doing and listen. 





			
				Rob said:
			
		

> “Officially got off the DC52 treadmill this morning,” he wrote, adding, “I believe in what DC is doing, but had to preserve my sanity. I walked off all 3 books. Can’t wait to see any attempts to spin. I have every email.”
> 
> Reasons are the same as everyone’s that you hear. I lasted a few months longer than I thought possible. Massive indecision, last minute and I mean LAST minute changes that alter everything. Editor pissing contests… No thxnjs. Last week my editor said ‘early on we had a lot of indie talent that weren’t used to re-writes and changes … made it hard.’ Uh, no, it’s you.”



How rich is Rob Liefeld? Is there an actual chance that he'll just not care and spill everything?


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 22, 2012)

Only 2 more now need to see that light. Damn editorials.

Didio needs to be remove imo.


----------



## Whimsy (Aug 22, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention. I've just been handed an urgent and glorious news story. I need all of you, to stop what you're doing and listen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well he was a multi-millionaire IIRC, the 90's were very good to him


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 22, 2012)

Whimsy said:


> Well he was a multi-millionaire IIRC, the 90's were very good to him



Huh, then I guess this is the first time I've ever been interested in the words of Rob Liefeld.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 22, 2012)

Didn't Rob help make the X force what it is today?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2012)

this is the most respect i've ever felt for him


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 22, 2012)

Didn't Liefeld say he was done with DC a month ago? This just sounds like spin on his own part.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 22, 2012)

Good, i'm glad his ass is off of Deathstroke.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 22, 2012)

I vampire is so good.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Didn't Liefeld say he was done with DC a month ago? This just sounds like spin on his own part.



I dunno I totally believe the shit with the editors, DC's editors seem fucking terrible


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 22, 2012)

Oh no, I definitely believe that editors are screwing around. I remember listening to Perez going off about that with the editors on Superman.

A month ago Liefeld was all "I'm done now, and its been fantastic". So now it just sounds like he's piggy backing on other creators who have spoken out on the editors. Eh, maybe its just my bias, but it feels like his standard shit-talking.

But whatever, its Liefeld. Who really cares? I already feel bad for wasting 2 posts on his walkoff.



Platinum said:


> I vampire is so good.


I know, right? Bennett really screwed the pooch this issue.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 22, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> I know, right? Bennett really screwed the pooch this issue.



It was not one of his better ideas to say the least.

But i'm totally down for Mary being the main character of the next arc .

Buy this people, support one of the new 52 titles that is actually good.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 22, 2012)

Can I get a quick run down of the plot Platinum ? I may have read it but just forgot about it.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 22, 2012)

I am a bit sad that Bennett will be turning villain after only 12 issues. I get that godmode good guy wouldn't have lasted long, and godmode badguy just works better for the story, but I was hoping that would happen further down the line.

But yeah, Mary as main character should be awesome.

So. How powerful would a vampire sired from a vampire god be?  The Earth is in some serious trouble.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 22, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Can I get a quick run down of the plot Platinum ? I may have read it but just forgot about it.



Andrew Bennett is a vampire that has been around since the victorian age. He turned his girlfriend Mary who became a batshit insane amoral psychopath who wants to raise a vampire army so they can stop living in fear of humans. He resigned himself to hunting down his own kind and things go from there. 

The art is some of the best you will get in the entire new 52 as well.



Bergelmir said:


> I am a bit sad that Bennett will be turning villain after only 12 issues. I get that godmode good guy wouldn't have lasted long, and godmode badguy just works better for the story, but I was hoping that would happen further down the line.
> 
> But yeah, Mary as main character should be awesome.
> 
> So. How powerful would a vampire sired from a vampire god be?  The Earth is in some serious trouble.



We will get good guy Bennett again after this arc i'm betting. Though I think it's going to be pretty fucking hard to take him down now. I wouldn't be surprised if he was on superman's level now.

I would imagine that they would be pretty fucking powerful .


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 23, 2012)

At least the romantic tension between Wonder Woman and Superman can actually go somewhere now, and isn't almost entirely fake and a giant waste of time.




Whip Whirlwind said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention. I've just been handed an urgent and glorious news story. I need all of you, to stop what you're doing and listen.
> 
> 
> 
> How rich is Rob Liefeld? Is there an actual chance that he'll just not care and spill everything?





> ?Don?t look for any tell all interview with me,? Liefeld added. ?Just follow this feed. ? the best stuff has not been shared ? not even close!?



OMG...


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 23, 2012)

Platinum said:


> We will get good guy Bennett again after this arc i'm betting. Though I think it's going to be pretty fucking hard to take him down now. I wouldn't be surprised if he was on superman's level now.
> 
> I would imagine that they would be pretty fucking powerful .



Well, now that he's the baddie, I don't mind if he stays that way for a while. I actually like it when writers do this. Its one of the reasons I love Sengoku Youko so much.

Also, Tig needs to be thrown into the sun.  God I hope she's not Bennett's Queen.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 23, 2012)

Tig is the replacement Mary for evil Andrew.

And you aren't the only one. I love perspective shifts when the protagonist becomes the antagonist.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 23, 2012)

Crapola. I guess we'll have to suffer more Tig then. 

Also, I think this issue was the first time I've actually liked Midnighter and Apollo since the reboot. I wouldn't mind if Fialkov wrote more of them.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 23, 2012)

I vampire is one of the few series where the crossovers seem less forced than in other new 52 titles and actually are sort of logical.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 23, 2012)

Oh definitely. I also loved how Fialkov didn't follow the standard "heroes punch each other in misunderstanding" this issue.

I do wonder if we might see the Green/Red/Rot show up in the future. Since vampires sort of fit in that struggle thematically.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 23, 2012)

I can definitely see that happening. Vampires would probably fall in between the red and the rot.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Aug 23, 2012)

I really want Red Hood and the Outlaws to get into shit with the Justice League at some stage.


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## Platinum (Aug 23, 2012)

They would stand no chance.

Batman > Redhood
Green Arrow > Arsenal
Superman and or Wonder Woman> Starfire

With Green Lantern and Aquaman left over.


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## Slice (Aug 23, 2012)

Way too complicated.

Just say Flash solos


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 23, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I vampire is one of the few series where the crossovers seem less forced than in other new 52 titles and actually are sort of logical.



I feel like this is true of pretty much the entire Dark line. In fact, it's hard for me to think of any dark title that couldn't naturally crossover with any other dark title.

Just another reason why the dark line is hands down the greatest thing to come out of the new 52.

EDIT: Sounds like I really need to get caught up on I vampire too...


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 23, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Andrew Bennett is a vampire that has been around since the victorian age. He turned his girlfriend Mary who became a batshit insane amoral psychopath who wants to raise a vampire army so they can stop living in fear of humans. He resigned himself to hunting down his own kind and things go from there.
> 
> The art is some of the best you will get in the entire new 52 as well.



Yeah, I checked the stuff I have not fully read through yet last night. This was one. I be surely to read through it sometime this weekend.


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## Petes12 (Aug 23, 2012)

Jim Lee's Dr Manhattan cover is the funniest fucking thing. It's soooo bad


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 23, 2012)

I just read I vampire , I swear it gets better and better


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## Platinum (Aug 23, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I feel like this is true of pretty much the entire Dark line. In fact, it's hard for me to think of any dark title that couldn't naturally crossover with any other dark title.
> 
> Just another reason why the dark line is hands down the greatest thing to come out of the new 52.
> 
> EDIT: Sounds like I really need to get caught up on I vampire too...



I agree with this. Especially compared to say Batwing where it's so blatantly hamfisted.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 23, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Crapola. I guess we'll have to suffer more Tig then.
> 
> Also, I think this issue was *the first time I've actually liked Midnighter and Apollo since the reboot.* I wouldn't mind if Fialkov wrote more of them.



So you've been reading Stormwatch? I was about to ask if they're as entertaining there as they are here. "I get to kill dracula. Cmon, that's awesome" I want more of that.


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## In Brightest Day! (Aug 23, 2012)

Platinum said:


> They would stand no chance.
> 
> Batman > Redhood
> Green Arrow > Arsenal
> ...



I'm not saying "who would win a fight." 

I think it would be cool to see Jason, Roy and Starfire get in so far over their heads that the Justice League actually have to get involved. The character interaction would be a lot of fun.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 23, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So you've been reading Stormwatch? I was about to ask if they're as entertaining there as they are here. "I get to kill dracula. Cmon, that's awesome" I want more of that.



I read up to issue 9 or 10. And I've just skimmed that last few issues. They're much better characterized in I, Vampire. But then, everyone's characterization in Stormwatch is... off, with the exception of Tanner. Also, Apollo's gay angst is just not interesting.


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## Platinum (Aug 23, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> I'm not saying "who would win a fight."
> 
> I think it would be cool to see Jason, Roy and Starfire get in so far over their heads that the Justice League actually have to get involved. The character interaction would be a lot of fun.



Why would the justice league help criminals?

I would like it too, just seems a little illogical .


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## In Brightest Day! (Aug 23, 2012)

Well, Red Hood and the Outlaws' moral plane on which it is presented is fairly ambiguous, right? I guess somehow they get into shit with a group of dudes who actually pose a serious threat and Batman, who of course probably has some idea what Jason is up to generally, feels the need to jump in partly because he doesn't want Jason to die, and partly because the Justice League legitimately _needs_ to step in and take care of the situation.

I think it would be heaps of fun.


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## Platinum (Aug 23, 2012)

It's fairly ambiguous to us, not to the justice league. Didn't they regard wonder woman as a monster for killing once? 

Roy, Jason and Kori do it all the time.

But don't get me wrong I would love something like that. And I think Superman is supposed to be interacting with them soon if I remember the november solicitations correctly.


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## In Brightest Day! (Aug 24, 2012)

Yeah, back around Infinite Crisis. Clark, Bruce and the rest of the World ended up forgiving her though, especially since she murdered a murder and had no choice. It's not the same thing, but at least Jason and his team generally only kill the bad guys. I don't think that would stop the JL from saving the three of them if they had to.

Are you serious? That sounds awesome! Do you have a link/details?


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## Platinum (Aug 24, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Yeah, back around Infinite Crisis. Clark, Bruce and the rest of the World ended up forgiving her though, especially since she murdered a murder and had no choice. It's not the same thing, but at least Jason and his team generally only kill the bad guys. I don't think that would stop the JL from saving the three of them if they had to.
> 
> Are you serious? That sounds awesome! Do you have a link/details?




*Spoiler*: __ 







> ? Just as the team gets back to Earth, they are interrupted by SUPERMAN.
> ? There's a Black Market alien technology being fenced and the Man of Steel has traced a connection to the Red Hood


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Aug 24, 2012)

Fuck yeah. Any time Roy Harper's generation of superheroes get to interact with the biggest names of the DCU as equals is cool with me.


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## spectre991 (Aug 24, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> I'm not saying "who would win a fight."
> 
> I think it would be cool to see Jason, Roy and Starfire get in so far over their heads that the Justice League actually have to get involved. The character interaction would be a lot of fun.


I would only be interested in Jason and Bruce's interaction. JLA doesn't know Roy (GA isn't in the JLA now, is he?) or Starfire on personal level that their would be fun interactions. To the league (minus Batman) the Outlaws are gonna be just another crazy team of criminals way over their heads.

There would be more fun interactions if they appear in Nightwing. Dick will face his troubled bro, his ex hoe and his ex best bud in the same team. Perfect!

But yeah everytime Roy's generation get to interact with the biggest names, it's always cool.


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## Platinum (Aug 24, 2012)

Nightwing vs the outlaws would be awesome.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 24, 2012)

Okay. It's been a year already. Has the New 52 event that undoes Flashpoint been announced yet?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 24, 2012)

i thought you'd like the new 52 for the most part m0


----------



## Whimsy (Aug 24, 2012)

Why would you want it to go back to its terrible pre flashpoint state?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 24, 2012)

Whimsy said:


> Why would you want it to go back to its terrible pre flashpoint state?



Maybe he's a fan of one of the dozen+ characters who were made worse due to the new 52?

It got a lot right, but I don't see how you could look at the new 52 and not think of a handful of things it did wrong.


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## Platinum (Aug 24, 2012)

DC for the most part has improved due to the new 52. Yeah it sucks for some characters but overall it's much healthier.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Aug 24, 2012)

Dick Grayson should still be Batman.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Aug 24, 2012)

Platinum said:


> DC for the most part has improved due to the new 52. Yeah it sucks for some characters but overall it's much healthier.



it definitely brought some variety, and some true gems out for us to appreciate (animal man, and I, vampire I'm looking at both of you)


----------



## Platinum (Aug 25, 2012)

Not to mention the upcoming Amethyst and Phantom Stranger books. DC is broadening the genres it covers and I like that.


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## Petes12 (Aug 25, 2012)

lol. DC's doing another before watchmen series by JMS, about moloch.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 26, 2012)

Liefeld continues to be a little bitch.


----------



## Whimsy (Aug 26, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Maybe he's a fan of one of the dozen+ characters who were made worse due to the new 52?
> 
> It got a lot right, but I don't see how you could look at the new 52 and not think of a handful of things it did wrong.



Granted, but the good outweighs the bad for me - DC had just gotten too stale. Additionally, wouldn't it have slowly been crushed by Marvel sales-wise? Wasn't that mostly the point of the nu-52?


----------



## Platinum (Aug 26, 2012)

I started reading a lot more dc because of the new 52. 

Cleaning house every now and then can be a good thing (even if some characters unfortunately get the shaft).


----------



## Taleran (Aug 26, 2012)

All the reboot did for me was pull back the curtain and reveal the treadmill so I got off.

Also I am kinda amazed how insane some of those Snyder comments were.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 26, 2012)

I find it pretty insane Liefeld would insinuate anyone else has been successful for reasons unrelated to their own talent, then act all wounded and wronged when that person fights back.

like, more than anyone else in the world, shouldn't he know what it feels like to be accused of being a talentless hack who didn't earn success?


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## Taleran (Aug 26, 2012)

Still claiming you are a large % of driving sales of Batman comics is insane.


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## Platinum (Aug 26, 2012)

It's not all that egotistical to believe that a book sells on quality as much as name power. And his does sell 50K more than the other batman books.


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## tari101190 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm not necessarily excited, but I feel I would be more inclined to buy this over the regular Justice League Book.





*Justice League of America*
_Geoff Johns & David Finch_

Green Arrow, Katana, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern (Baz), Stargirl, Vibe, Hawkman and Catwoman.


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## The Pink Ninja (Aug 26, 2012)

Scott Snyder: The man is saying what we're all thinking

Not that Liefeld is wrong about most DC editors needs a nice caustic soda enema.


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## Platinum (Aug 26, 2012)

Why Catwoman?


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## tari101190 (Aug 26, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I'm not necessarily excited, but I feel I would be more inclined to buy this over the regular Justice League Book.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Platinum said:


> Why Catwoman?



I'm guessing just to add more female diversity to the team, with a 'darker' character. The female Metamorpho maybe joining the team too.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 26, 2012)

Who is the guy with the guns?

Who is the dude behidn Catwoman?

Also does this team have no Bats on it? D: 

*Le Shocked*


----------



## Platinum (Aug 26, 2012)

I hate  to sound like certain people but surely they could of used one of the other female bat characters if they were going for diversity. 

And why would Green Arrow work for a government justice league? Why would Catwoman? She's kind of a notorious thief, why would the us want her working for them?


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 26, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I hate  to sound like certain people but surely they could of used one of the other female bat characters if they were going for diversity.


There is only Batwoman and Batgirl (now atleast). Batwoman is already with the DEO. And Batgirl is on Bruce's side, so she wouldn't join an opposing team.



> And why would Green Arrow work for a government justice league? Why would Catwoman? She's kind of a notorious thief, why would the us want her working for them?



It's probably a case of "join us, the suicide squad, or get locked up."

This seems like a JL with non-mainstream members.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 26, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Who is the guy with the guns?
> 
> Who is the dude behidn Catwoman?
> 
> ...



I think that's Steve Trevor..as for the other guy...that's Vibe

anyways i'll give it a shot...though there's a horde of Bat characters I would have used before Catwoman


----------



## Platinum (Aug 26, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> There is only Batwoman and Batgirl (now atleast). Batwoman is already with the DEO. And Batgirl is on Bruce's side, so she wouldn't join an opposing team.



I was thinking more along the lines of steph or cass. 



> It's probably a case of "join us, the suicide squad, or get locked up."
> 
> This seems like a JL with non-mainstream members.



You would think Steve Trevor would of learned his lesson with Constantine .


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 26, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of steph or cass.


I thought so, but they apparently don't exist anymore.

I would like a new Outsiders team though. I wouldn't mind Spoiler being on that team.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 26, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I thought so, but they apparently don't exist anymore.



Yeah I know, but they would be better than Catwoman.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 26, 2012)

'The fuck is vibe?

So the American employed Justice League has a International Space cop, an alien, a criminal, an anti-government liberal anarchist, an ancient Egyptian powered dude and a Japanese lady.

Regular Justice League is more American than this. Sans Wonder Woman they're all American, even Aquaman via his dad.

I don't think this roster was thought about very hard.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 26, 2012)




----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 26, 2012)

Man would have love to see the Question in that .


----------



## Taleran (Aug 26, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Scott Snyder: The man is saying what we're all thinking



What you mean the same tired jokes everyone has since 2002? Snyder sounds mad that someone called him on his bullshit.



Platinum said:


> It's not all that egotistical to believe that a book sells on quality as much as name power. And his does sell 50K more than the other batman books.



Batman has traditionally sold better than the rest of the bat-books. Not to mention Batman has gotten the largest marketing push because it is the 'main' book and the spine of a crossover that just recently finished while involving all the other books.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 26, 2012)

Well this is false because pre Snyder Batman sold at about 55,000 a month give or take

with Snyder sales jumped to around 130,000 and have stayed stable around that time.

So yeah unless you can just give a nearly 2.36 sales increase to random chance and has stayed at that rate for a full year also to chance, then Snyder does probably most likely deserve that credit.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 26, 2012)

His older book was Detective Comics that wasn't propped up by a NU52 reboot, with very well thought out variant cover / resealable incentives.

I am not denying he and more so Capullo play a part in the success but they are not overpowering the character in that case.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 26, 2012)

but even so most nu52 books have dropped dramatically over the year and eventually have settled to a steady rate that is barely better than before they rebooted.  Snyder's book has had a minimal drop and has remained a best seller for a full year.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 26, 2012)

Parallax said:


> but even so most nu52 books have dropped dramatically over the year and eventually have settled to a steady rate that is barely better than before they rebooted.  Snyder's book has had a minimal drop and has remained a best seller for a full year.



Detective Comics is still selling double what it was when Snyder left it.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 26, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Man would have love to see the Question in that .



See? Already a better suggestin that Catwoman

Renee was a cop and a government employee already!


----------



## Platinum (Aug 26, 2012)

People come for the batman, stay for the quality story telling. 

Name power can maybe carry you through 1-4 issues, but if your story sucks people are going to stop buying.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 26, 2012)

Underestimating the structure of the direct market will leave you thinking that a majority of the comics bought are for people who read them and really enjoy them.


----------



## Nightblade (Aug 26, 2012)

The Pink Ninja said:


> See? Already a better suggestin that Catwoman
> 
> Renee was a cop and a government employee already!


but she can't unzip her costume and bare her tits.


----------



## Bergelmir (Aug 26, 2012)

Welp, thank goodness Finch is on JLA. Otherwise I would have read it for J'onn.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 27, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> but she can't unzip her costume and bare her tits.



She will have Batwoman do it for her .


----------



## Slice (Aug 27, 2012)

No matter who you think is right on this one - this is highly unprofessional by both of them.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2012)

Slice said:


> No matter who you think is right on this one - this is highly unprofessional by both of them.



That's true.

Snyder should have just not responded, at all. He should have known there was no response he could give to defend himself that would not be poking the liefeld.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 29, 2012)

So am I the only one who thought GL annual was well, pretty freaking awesome?

The third army is kinda eh, but everything else was great.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 29, 2012)

Taleran said:


> What you mean the same tired jokes everyone has since 2002? Snyder sounds mad that someone called him on his bullshit.



what bullshit? i read the tweets, he wasn't pretentious at all. he was insulted several times, unprovoed, before making one rude remark about liefeld's books. i thought it was pretty justified.


----------



## Afalstein (Aug 29, 2012)

Can I take a moment just to whine?  I'm aware that most of the thread right now is discussing Scott Snyder and his statements, but this is the DC Reboot thread, and there's a couple things about the reboot that I feel I have to get off my chest.

Quite simply, I hate it.  A few things are cool, like the way they're making the backstories more involved and realistic and so forth.  And I've seen some pretty impressive work on the new Swamp Thing and a few other titles.

But I've also seen them getting rid of some of the most interesting and unique aspects of the DC Universe.  For instance:

Batgirl/Oracle: Possibly the coolest handicapped hero since Professor X.  Information broker for Batman and the League, one of the major players in the DC Universe.  A tragic and evocative backstory.  All of which gets thrown out of the window for the sake of... what?  What exactly is the benefit of having Barbara be the new Batgirl?

Amanda Waller:  One of the most unique characters in the comic book world--a fat black ugly lady who is tough as nails and a real badass--gets turned into another pin-up sexy babe, making her EXACTLY LIKE every other female in the DC Universe.

Superman/Lois Lane:  C'mon!  This is the quintessential hero romance, the one pairing practically everyone knows about, the one they've made movies and tv series about!  More than that, the relationship was one of the few ties to humanity that Clark had.  Lois helped put the "man" in Superman, she kept him anchored to the human world.  Now, not only is Superman no longer in love with Lois, he's not even "Clark" anymore.  Is there any reason to care about this ungodly alien with the superpowers who apparently doesn't even feel the need to mix among humans anymore?

Sorry, I just... the more I learn about the DC Reboot the more I wish it'd never happened.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> So am I the only one who thought GL annual was well, pretty freaking awesome?
> 
> The third army is kinda eh, but everything else was great.



GL with Hal and Sinestro, right?  They continue to have an interesting dynamic.  The reappearance of the Black Lanterns was a surprise, I could have sworn they were gone for good this time.

With you on the "third army."  Seriously,we're heading for another war?  The Sinestro Corps War, the Blackest Night, The Green Lantern Civil War, the War against the Alpha Lanterns... and now the NEW biggest threat, the "third army."  Really, enough already.  None of these wars ever last more than a few days anyway.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 29, 2012)

yeah I think most of us here agree those were some lame losses. I mean, I don't mind superman not being married to lois, but its like they're avoiding her entirely.

GL annual was fine I guess, I'm interested in the first lantern guy mostly, and the other guardians.


----------



## vicious1 (Aug 29, 2012)

I finally caught up on about a year's worth of reading. Don't really like most of the reboot. When Morrison leaves my DC list is going to be practically cut in half. Only stuff I really like are the titles that were practically untouched like the Green Lantern Stuff and Bat books.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> what bullshit? i read the tweets, he wasn't pretentious at all. he was insulted several times, unprovoed, before making one rude remark about liefeld's books. i thought it was pretty justified.



I don't know man, first couple and it is "head" Batman writer then, oh yeah the fact that it is Batman isn't why it is selling at all, it is all me and Capullo.

That is exactly the moment where I would have waved the bullshit flag, and it is the moment where Rob does too.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2012)

Afalstein said:


> Batgirl/Oracle: Possibly the coolest handicapped hero since Professor X.  Information broker for Batman and the League, one of the major players in the DC Universe.  A tragic and evocative backstory.  All of which gets thrown out of the window for the sake of... what?  What exactly is the benefit of having Barbara be the new Batgirl?



I agree with you, but at the same time I can understand batgirl fans not wanting their favorite hero defined to a support role (as awesome a support role as that was), never being able to actually get in on the action because of a story published decades ago.

That being said, the minute they chose to remove her experiences as oracle is when it became a worthless decision. An active Oracle, or an active batgirl who retained all her skills as oracle, would be interesting.



> Amanda Waller:  One of the most unique characters in the comic book world--a fat black ugly lady who is tough as nails and a real badass--gets turned into another pin-up sexy babe, making her EXACTLY LIKE every other female in the DC Universe.



At least we have young justice.



> With you on the "third army."  Seriously,we're heading for another war?  The Sinestro Corps War, the Blackest Night, The Green Lantern Civil War, the War against the Alpha Lanterns... and now the NEW biggest threat, the "third army."  Really, enough already.  None of these wars ever last more than a few days anyway.



I'm okay with it, but I agree it's lost some of it's luster.

I am interested in seeing Hal and Sinestro come back (black lanterns?), and the first lantern.

And the one thing I like about the third army is that if their goal is to extinguish free will, the entities HAVE to get involved. No emotions means no fear, can't see Parallax being okay with that.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 30, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> but she can't unzip her costume and bare her tits.



Renee can have sex with girls

Surely that is the ultimate fanservice trump?


----------



## Slice (Aug 30, 2012)

Clark  / Lois becoming status quo again is only a matter of time. It just takes a bit longer than usual this time.
Seeing Waller all supermodel like was really sad though. 

Everything i think about Babsgirl has been said already.

I stand by my opinion that the reboot braught more good than bad.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2012)

Slice said:


> Clark  / Lois becoming status quo again is only a matter of time. It just takes a bit longer than usual this time.



This. And really, I'm okay with superheros not following the whole one true love forever and ever thing. The dude is what, 27 at most? Let the guy get his superstrut on.



> I stand by my opinion that the reboot braught more good than bad.



I agree with you, but only because of the Dark line. 

Looking at the rest, most of the changes I disagree with don't affect the books that are actually good.

And overall I just REALLY disagree with DC viewing the legacy aspect of their universe as a negative.


----------



## Vault (Aug 30, 2012)

I really hate Clark/Lois. I never cared for it, I actually hate it. Lois is just a terrible character imo. I hope it stays like that for the next 30 years.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2012)

Taleran said:


> I don't know man, first couple and it is "head" Batman writer then, oh yeah the fact that it is Batman isn't why it is selling at all, it is all me and Capullo.
> 
> That is exactly the moment where I would have waved the bullshit flag, and it is the moment where Rob does too.



they actually do call whoever's writing the main batman book the 'head batman writer'. previously it was morrison.

liefeld was the first to say that snyder and capullo's work didn't matter since it was batman, which is really incredibly insulting, I don't blame snyder at all for standing up for his work.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2012)

Really the only issue I have with that comment is that he didn't include the word "just".

Personally, from what i've read / heard, snyder isn't arrogant or stupid enough to genuinely believe that the fact that he's writing arguably the most popular character in comics has nothing to do with the sales of his book. So this makes me think slip of the tongue / fingers.

On the other hand, Liefeld IS arrogant and stupid enough to genuinely believe that the skill of the creators has little affect on sales, as evidenced by his comments about Deadpool and Cable.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't even know what the tweet was that Snyder said that was so bad

Liefeld on the other hand has a bunch of comments that make him sound bitter and angry


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 30, 2012)

Vault said:


> I really hate Clark/Lois. I never cared for it, I actually hate it. Lois is just a terrible character imo. I hope it stays like that for the next 30 years.



I dislike Supes/WW even more.


----------



## Creme egg (Aug 30, 2012)

I think the only time I liked the pairing of wonder woman and superman was in kingdom come. That was really well written. But then I remember frank millers version of the pairing and I just get annoyed. 

Of course those are Elseworld Stories and not canon while this is. In my opinion I don’t think it will last. I know it is too early to tell but I just don’t see it lasting for a while, unless it’s actually going to be well written and people buy into it.

In the end the most important thing is that the writers remember who these characters are and not make them do out of character things like frank did with his stories.


----------



## geekworld (Aug 30, 2012)

Superman & Wonder Woman are younger versions than we have all become used to. Maybe they will eventually get back to the relationships we are used to but maybe not. We have trouble seeing Superman with anybody except Lois Lane, but she was not his first or only love (I mean he almost got married to a mermaid). I don't have a problem with the relationship between SM & WW because it gives the characters a chance to evolve and grow rather than being tied to the future we expect them to have. It will be interesting to see where it goes.

We actually did a YouTube episode delving into this:
[YOUTUBE]Y2-LxwWYSyE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Platinum (Aug 30, 2012)

The GL annual was pretty awesome. That artwork man.

But Aquaman was the best comic this week. I love that book.


----------



## Vault (Aug 30, 2012)

The relationship in Kingdom Come was well written, thats when i became a fan


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 30, 2012)

Personally my opinion here is that the Big Trinity should be their own entity individually. Yes the love interest was well written in KC. However WW is an Amazonian she cant be tied down to one man especially Supes. If it was Bats then that will be a different story .


----------



## Slice (Aug 30, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> If it was Bats then that will be a different story .


----------



## Taleran (Aug 30, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> they actually do call whoever's writing the main batman book the 'head batman writer'. previously it was morrison.
> 
> liefeld was the first to say that snyder and capullo's work didn't matter since it was batman, which is really incredibly insulting, I don't blame snyder at all for standing up for his work.



I am aware head Batman writer is a thing but I don't think there is a need to state that in conversation.

Insulting or Pragmatic? I mean sure as I said before I don't think those two guys count for nothing but you have to look at that book in the environment it has been in.

It is the 'main' book, it has been marketed this way by DC, there is not a retailer out there who would be caught dead with this thing not on the racks. Batman has traditionally sold better than the other Bat books because the name is right there. This is the summer of the final Nolan Batman movie which DC sold to with Snyder/Capullo & Johns/Frank Earth One. It has been the spine of the first DCNu52 crossover that just ended fairly recently. Not to mention all the return ability / variant cover programs in place.

I would be more shocked if that book wasn't selling as good as it was, regardless of who was writing & drawing it.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 30, 2012)

It is insulting because Liefeld just went off on Snyder for no reason.  

If and when Snyder and Capullo leave and if the numbers do drop would you then concede that they probably had something to do with the large success?


----------



## Rukia (Aug 30, 2012)

Superman/Wonder Woman is terrible.  I find it really lazy and really manipulative too to be honest.

"We don't need to develop this relationship at all because it is Superman and Wonder Woman."  "It will be popular because it is Superman and Wonder Woman.  People that don't normally buy The Justice League will buy this."

I keep hearing rumors of a Justice League movie.  They can't even make a good comic book right now.  Fix that shit first.  It has been fucking abysmal since the relaunch.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 30, 2012)

No it went the other way. Snyder made his comments then Rob called him Pretentious.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 30, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I keep hearing rumors of a Justice League movie.  They can't even make a good comic book right now.  Fix that shit first.  It has been fucking abysmal since the relaunch.



1) You do know the same writers and co that make comic books doesnt necessarily have to write and make the movie right?

2) Yeah, that didnt stop DCAU from creating the best Superhero franchise on television.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 30, 2012)

Taleran said:


> I am aware head Batman writer is a thing but I don't think there is a need to state that in conversation.
> 
> Insulting or Pragmatic? I mean sure as I said before I don't think those two guys count for nothing but you have to look at that book in the environment it has been in.
> 
> ...



part of it being the main book is that it needs a certain pedigree of talent on it too. if it were jurgens and didio or something i guarantee it wouldn't be selling all that great.


----------



## Dark Knight Spike (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm  pissed that Frank Miller got to have his Batman come to life


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 31, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Personally my opinion here is that the Big Trinity should be their own entity individually. Yes the love interest was well written in KC. However WW is an Amazonian she cant be tied down to one man especially Supes. If it was Bats then that will be a different story .


Someone seriously needs to make the people calling the shots understand this. Yeah everyone loves easy attention but come on! Supes and Wondy hooking up looks manipulative rather than anything else.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2012)

Fruit Rollup said:


> I'm  pissed that Frank Miller got to have his Batman come to life



But it is the BEST Batman.


----------



## The World (Aug 31, 2012)

Seriously Year One and The Dark Knight Returns are still the best when it comes to the Bats

There is also his Daredevil

Frank Millar in the 80's, I will miss thee 



Vault said:


> The relationship in Kingdom Come was well written, thats when i became a fan



Seeing his relationship with Wondy in Kingdom Come made me think,  
"Lois Lane? Who? Fuck 'em"

I usually hate shipping, but I'd ship those incarnations, throw in Bats too as godfather  Best threesome ever


----------



## Huey Freeman (Aug 31, 2012)

Lois Lane served a purpose that Wondy cant. The animated series does a better job demonstrating this purpose.

 The purpose is keeping Supes in check showing a more human side. Wondy being an amazonian doesnt know what it is to be powerless.


----------



## The World (Aug 31, 2012)

Wondy also serves a purpose

1. Not being a damsel in distress

2. Being fucking awesome

3. Power couple- Supes doesn't have to worry about her and Wondy can watch Supes back


----------



## spectre991 (Aug 31, 2012)

Pairings help in bringing out the human sides of superheroes. But that probably isn't going to happen much in a power couple like Supes and Wondy. Both of them are serious powerhouses, that makes the pairing boring in my book.

It would be different story, say if, it were Wondy and Bats.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 4, 2012)

spectre991 said:


> Pairings help in bringing out the human sides of superheroes. But that probably isn't going to happen much in a power couple like Supes and Wondy. Both of them are serious powerhouses, that makes the pairing boring in my book.
> 
> It would be different story, say if, it were Wondy and Bats.



Or maybe we'll see Supes attempt to bring out the human side to Wondy?

I think it'd be a good idea worth exploring if Superman had a good writer, if Wonder Woman wasn't so blatantly separate from the new52, or if Johns wrote this relationship as well as he wrote wally/linda....but he doesn't, she is, and he won't.

So it's probably going to be touched one a few times in JL, most likely with little focus so it'll come off as forced, but it'll be integral to a plot point or 2 down the road.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 4, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Or maybe we'll see Supes attempt to bring out the human side to Wondy?
> 
> I think it'd be a good idea worth exploring if Superman had a good writer, if Wonder Woman wasn't so blatantly separate from the new52, or if Johns wrote this relationship as well as he wrote wally/linda....but he doesn't, she is, and he won't.
> 
> So it's probably going to be touched one a few times in JL, most likely with little focus so it'll come off as forced, but it'll be integral to a plot point or 2 down the road.




Supes barely grasp what it is to be human. He never have to worry about the typical shit a normal guy would or the idea of being weak.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Sep 4, 2012)

Soon after Crisis on Infinite Earths they also put Batman and Wonder Woman in a relationship, this will end eventually, in my opinion these 3 heroes already are part of a couple that will be part of almost every version of the characters: Superman/ Lois Lane, Batman/ Catwoman and Wonder Woman/ Steve Trevor


----------



## Platinum (Sep 7, 2012)

So I liked the Detective Comics and Batwing origin issues. 7 years as batman at least makes it a little bit easier to digest than 5 years from a logic point. Batwing's origin was nothing special but it was executed adequately. It does what Batwing should be doing, fleshing out and staying in Africa.

The Phantom Stranger was... okay? The Spectre plot was too quick and should have been done over two issues at the least. Hopefully next issue is where Raven gets reintroduced to the new 52 as Phantom is confronting Trigon.

Green Arrow was a pile of shit and it should feel bad for existing. Did anyone not named Wally, Steph or Cass get a worse break than Ollie in the new 52?

I really, really fucking liked Baz's intro. I do think this is a clever spin on the green lantern story, the fear baz having to overcome being an entirely different breed than the one other gl's had to deal with. I wonder if this is how they are going to force him into the JLA? They have quite a lot to blackmail him with.

World's Finest was likewise pretty good. The Bruce/Selina/Helena interactions were pretty funny and it showed a nice supes/batman dynamic. Though the whole 'we are bff's forever' bit felt unnatural and forced considering they met three minutes ago.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 7, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Supes barely grasp what it is to be human. He never have to worry about the typical shit a normal guy would or the idea of being weak.



you're right

he only has to grasp with the idea that he hears everyone that needs help and he can't be there for everyone and save them


----------



## Doom85 (Sep 7, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Green Arrow was a pile of shit and it should feel bad for existing. Did anyone not named Wally, Steph or Cass get a worse break than Ollie in the new 52?



Everyone's been saying the Green Arrow run since the reboot has been gawdawful but never explained why. Not that I'm doubting them, I just would like to know what's bad about it. Green Arrow's appearance in issue 8 of Justice League was quite good IMHO as it showed GA as the underdog that the League wouldn't give the time of day and I felt for the guy because he wants to become a better person but is being denied the chance. It was good stuff. I dunno, maybe everyone thought he was awful in that appearance in that appearance as well, but I liked it which is why I'm looking forward to Johns' JLA title with him in it. I want to read more stuff with GA in the reboot but if the writers of the main GA title are sucking then that's not an option.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 7, 2012)

Platinum said:


> So I liked the Detective Comics and Batwing origin issues. 7 years as batman at least makes it a little bit easier to digest than 5 years from a logic point. Batwing's origin was nothing special but it was executed adequately. It does what Batwing should be doing, fleshing out and staying in Africa.
> 
> *The Phantom Stranger was... okay? The Spectre plot was too quick and should have been done over two issues at the least. Hopefully next issue is where Raven gets reintroduced to the new 52 as Phantom is confronting Trigon.*
> 
> ...



Yeah the Spectre storyline should have been a two to three issue storyline instead of being shoved into a single issue. 

also yeah this is like the first time that I actually liked Detective Comics.

Green Arrow's been crap since the relaunch happened...and even before that too, as the only reason to read his series during Brightest Day was Etrigan


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 8, 2012)

i have to wonder if superman when he was younger was always like this. i mean, was he ever portrayed as the 'bland hard-ass' i feel like he's been acting as in his jla and his own book? action comics has been much better in terms of making superman seem like he was once ones, i think. 

only other comment...the whole guardians of the universe basically going crazy with this new of our flesh latern has me really not knowing how to feel. on the one hand, i kind of by the guardians making yet another terrible decision. on the other hand, in what few years i've been reading gl, i didn't know there was some first gl, nor do i understand how strong the guardians are suppose to be anymore.


----------



## Stringer (Sep 8, 2012)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> i have to wonder if superman when he was younger was always like this. i mean, was he ever portrayed as the 'bland hard-ass' i feel like he's been acting as in his jla and his own book?


There's just been a poor choice of writers assigned to his books as of late, most of whom don't seem to have any real interest on him. Action comics is thus far the only title doing a descent job handling the character since the reboot.

On that note the artwork in action comics #0 was pretty awesome, I especially liked the shading. The story was nice overall although nothing too exciting. I'll keep reading upcoming issues for as long as Ben Oliver stays on it, mainly to see excellent Superman art.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 9, 2012)

so apparently Tim has always been Red Robin  and never officially took up the Robin suit or identity according to the Baltimore comic con panel.... also the Anti Monitor never existed apparently.

on something that doesn't annoy me...Starro's coming back in the upcoming Rotworld crossover


----------



## spectre991 (Sep 10, 2012)

I thought it was something like Tim indeed became Batman's official sidekick and stuff and remained so for about one year but he preferred to call himself Red Robin from the very beginning and never wanted to be known as Robin to make his identity distinct or something.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2012)

Taleran said:


> But it is the BEST Batman.



ehhh... 

i liked year one better and i didn't like the year one movie so i'm not excited for this.


----------



## Arlene468 (Sep 11, 2012)

Shouldn't this be part 2?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 12, 2012)

batman 0's main story was good... until it suddenly ended with a tobe continued in 2013 :| 

the backup with all the sidekicks was pretty awesome though.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 12, 2012)

That backup was amazing.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Sep 12, 2012)

Batman and Robin #00,they really did the London scenes


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh man, lil Damian is adorable. "Look, I'm a bat." :33


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 13, 2012)

reading batgirl 0, the first 2 pages I'm already laughing at Ed Benes. not because his art was bad, it's actually pretty nice looking. But he blatantly drew teen barbara in a really skimpy outfit with shortshorts and the colorist just colored her legs like they're pants or stockings or something to try and fix it.


----------



## Mildred470 (Sep 13, 2012)

Demonk Knights still going strong......right??


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 13, 2012)

I think it is. How's Etrigan doing?


----------



## Parallax (Sep 13, 2012)

I ended up buying Action Comics 6-12 for a dollar each and caught up with Batman and Swamp Thing.

Good stuff, feels good to be caught up and with the 0 Issues I have a month to save my money some more


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 14, 2012)

mr. wilson and mr. fairchild working together, oh DC


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 14, 2012)

Oh my god that synchronous robin moment 

Tim is Kevin from home alone 

Ignoring how gymnastics is basically acrobatics


----------



## Bergelmir (Sep 15, 2012)

Ah, damn. Shade's finally over. A great final issue by Robinson, although I never really wanted to see the night Swift is turned into the Shade. I liked that it was a mystery.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 15, 2012)

So they are going to try and push an aquaman/batman rivalry in the next jl arc apparently.... poor arthur.


----------



## spectre991 (Sep 15, 2012)

I heard Atlantis is going to invade the land world. Really?


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Sep 15, 2012)




----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 15, 2012)

Platinum said:


> So they are going to try and push an aquaman/batman rivalry in the next jl arc apparently.... poor arthur.



I heard Arthur was going to be in this...Aqua/Bat rivalry, and forced to make some choices the rest of the league doesn't agree with.

I already have an idea, considering how people are complaining about how Arthur doesn't have a problem killing certain enemies.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah that's what i'm thinking too.

I doubt Arthur is going to give a shit about them thinking he shouldn't kill enemies. And Arthur has shown that he believes he should be the one leading the league. Those will be the two spots of conflict most likely.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't really care if Aquaman is killing enemies. He isn't just a hero, he is a warrior and a king and isn't held to the same restrictions as Batman or Flash. And seeing Arthur lead could be interesting.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 16, 2012)

We will see just how committed DC is to making Arthur a quote unquote "Badass" again when he goes up against Bats. If he can actually pull one over on batgod..... .


----------



## hehey (Sep 16, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


>


Where is that from?. Pm me cause i rarely read this thread.


----------



## Nightblade (Sep 16, 2012)

really hyped for Throne of Atlantis. this is the event that is going to make up for the shitty first year of JL.

feed that Batbitch to the sharks, Arthur!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 17, 2012)

Nightblade said:


> really hyped for Throne of Atlantis. this is the event that is going to make up for the shitty first year of JL.
> 
> feed that Batbitch *to the sharks*, Arthur!





He'll have to do better than that!


----------



## Platinum (Sep 17, 2012)

Pretty sweet cover.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Pretty sweet cover.



Has TT gotten any better ?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 17, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Has TT gotten any better ?



Nope, like the rest of the Young Justice line (sans Blue Beetle) it's still crap


----------



## Platinum (Sep 17, 2012)

^

But it is a nice cover .


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2012)

Platinum said:


> ^
> 
> But it is a nice cover .


Well you did provided me with my new sig .


Emperor Joker said:


> Nope, like the rest of the Young Justice line (sans Blue Beetle) it's still crap



Thought so.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 17, 2012)

And suddenly Superman was transported to Rapture.


----------



## Doom85 (Sep 17, 2012)

Well, I'm still enjoying the TT book (minus the crapstorm that was The Culling).

Looking forward to finally reading Blue Beetle when the first trade finally comes out in November (along with Flash, Superman, and DC Universe Presents), but happily they've apparently moved the second trade far ahead in the release schedule as it's coming out in January next year (the first month of the second trades for the new 52 books).

Plantinum: LMAO, yeah with the little girl, the kinda classic-vibe with the dancing, and the tentacles (not in the game, but still makes me think underwater), it's definitely got a Bioshock feel


----------



## Platinum (Sep 17, 2012)

Nothing anyone says will convince me that girl _isn't_ a little sister.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 18, 2012)

Platinum said:


> And suddenly Superman was transported to Rapture.



I'm totally okay with this.

And yeah, that's a little sister.


----------



## Slice (Sep 18, 2012)

That TT cover makes me even more excited for the arc introducing the new Joker.
I hope they dont screw it up.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 18, 2012)

Read the Superman series, I don't like it. I don't think they should have killed his parents makes him less grounded and seem more like an outcast ( which I do not like). I also don't like the fact that they're going down the Spiderman route where many don't trust him, in my opinion he's a hero who should be revered.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 18, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Nothing anyone says will convince me that girl _isn't_ a little sister.



nope she is a little sister alright

in other news I, vampire #15 cover

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Platinum (Sep 18, 2012)

Quite the ass shot indeed .

Also pretty freaking violent cover . Andrew poking the guy's eye out while his throat is being cut.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 18, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Quite the ass shot indeed .
> 
> Also pretty freaking violent cover . Andrew poking the guy's eye out while his throat is being cut.



poor van helsing guy  , although that shot is making me reconsider my stance on tig


----------



## Platinum (Sep 18, 2012)

Tig is far better as a vampire for sure .


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2012)

wonder woman 0 takes a different, pretty funny approach to the 0 issue format.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 19, 2012)

see now that I like

that just might be the only 0 issue I buy


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 19, 2012)

I wonder if they have previews for others?


----------



## Platinum (Sep 19, 2012)

there are previews for most zero issues this week at cbr.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 19, 2012)

Not really sure how much stock to put into this.

Legion Lost
Blue Beetle
Grifter
Frankenstein 

are the ones on the chopping block alongside G.I. combat. As long as I, Vampire survives i'm good .

Also lol the young justice line is basically non existent if this is true.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 19, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Not really sure how much stock to put into this.
> 
> Legion Lost
> Blue Beetle
> ...



No not Frankenstein

I'm sure they'll replace it with more shit...porbably another Titans spinoff


----------



## Platinum (Sep 19, 2012)

The new wave books have been at least 50% good so there is some hope.

Especially if it entails Raven getting into a book. At least put her in the JLD or something .


----------



## Platinum (Sep 19, 2012)

Also looks like Jason and bats no longer met via Jason jacking the wheels of his sweet ride. I don't really mind tbh. With all the high tech bullshit batman has now it is probably too hard to suspend my disbelief about the fact that batman doesn't have some anti theft mechanisms in his ride. Also I don't really think people steal tires anymore do they?


----------



## Gunners (Sep 19, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Also looks like Jason and bats no longer met via Jason jacking the wheels of his sweet ride. I don't really mind tbh. With all the high tech bullshit batman has now it is probably too hard to suspend my disbelief about the fact that batman doesn't have some anti theft mechanisms in his ride. Also I don't really think people steal tires anymore do they?



It depends on the area. You have expensive alloys on a car and leave it in a bad neighborhood they're not going to be there when you get back.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 20, 2012)

Sword of Sorcery was pretty good i'm enjoying the diversity DC has going on in its titles.

Spoiler from Issue 0:


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Constantine you fucking troll you


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 20, 2012)

So part of Dick's new origin is figuring out Batman's identity.

Ehhh........


----------



## Slice (Sep 20, 2012)

Wasnt that Tims origin (pre reboot)?


----------



## Doom85 (Sep 20, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So part of Dick's new origin is figuring out Batman's identity.
> 
> Ehhh........



Is this Nightwing #0? And was he already adopted by Bruce when he does this?

Slice: yes it was.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 20, 2012)

it was more like, he just recognized bruce under the mask. which is fairly reasonable when you live with the guy...


----------



## Gunners (Sep 20, 2012)

So what's Tim's origin? Also why are they fucking around with such things? It's not exactly a relevant change.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 20, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> it was more like, he just recognized bruce under the mask. which is fairly reasonable when you live with the guy...



Admittedly I haven't read the issue. Does he just recognize the bottom portion of his face, or is it that he recognizes a facial expression or something?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 20, 2012)

it was basically the same as gordon levitt


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 20, 2012)

Oh, I'm totally fine with that then.

I've actually always taken a bit of an issue at how Dick's detective skills were kind of played down to boost Tim up. Its always been a missed opportunity to further differentiate them. 

I like the idea of Tim's detective skills being based on things like memorization and making unusual connections, while Dick would be more about reading people and figuring things out based on the victim's/suspect's personality.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 21, 2012)

Beowulf


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Sep 21, 2012)

Any takers?


----------



## Hellblazer (Sep 22, 2012)

i really liked the way dick figures out bruce's identity through facial expressions as i read somewhere that for a guy who does acrobatics needs to be able to read the face of people involved with him in the act...so not surprised and enjoyed the issue very much...


----------



## Gunners (Sep 23, 2012)

Caught up with JL. Hal should have sent Diana into the sun. Man was trying to talk some sense into her and she responded with aggression.

Also was Barry the way he is now in the Silver Age? He always seemed serious to me but now he feels Wally esque of course he is not Wally and I still dislike him.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 24, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Caught up with JL. Hal should have sent Diana into the sun. Man was trying to talk some sense into her and she responded with aggression.
> 
> Also was Barry the way he is now in the Silver Age? He always seemed serious to me but now he feels Wally esque of course he is not Wally and I still dislike him.



I think his characterization right now is a bit more inline with the silverage then how Johns wrote him in the solo series.

It seems like Johns took "Police Scientist" and really pushed the first part of that instead of the second part.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 24, 2012)

This kind of disheartened me:



Not that I don't enjoy a semi-fantastic gritty thriller every once and then (I just read Dean Koontz's What the Night Knows after reading Intensity and The Bad Place years ago from him) but I wasn't expecting this.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 24, 2012)

That incident is being so overblown.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 24, 2012)

Just got all the issue 0. So far I really liked Wondys.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 25, 2012)

Platinum said:


> That incident is being so overblown.



I've only ever seen about it in CA but I'll take your word for it.

And at the rate I wait for any and all new/current series, a single issue means little to me anyway. It simply genuinely surprised me.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 25, 2012)

Platinum said:


> That incident is being so overblown.



That particular article felt like reading a temper tantrum.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 25, 2012)

Because it was.

Seriously. All that happens is they lay a hand on her and then Amy immediately comes in and beats the shit out of them. There was nothing exploitative about it whatsoever, in fact it was used to show that the protagonist is a competent hero.

Besides, Constantine was lurking just out of sight so she was never in any real danger in the first place.


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 25, 2012)

damn just got addicted to american vampire, skinner sweet is one sick mother fucker, love this shit... damn


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 25, 2012)

I thought it was incredibly cliche and lame but yeah, talk about blowing things out of proportion.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 25, 2012)

Some of you act like you never read any Hellblazer , once Constantine is involve things are blown out of proportion.


----------



## Hellblazer (Sep 25, 2012)

any good constantine reads which would help introduce the character?i have heard very good things about the guy!!


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 25, 2012)

Hellblazer read all of it period , no exceptions.


----------



## Hellblazer (Sep 25, 2012)

that sounds good and i would but i want to get some giude...i think there is more than 20 years worth comics...its intimidating...


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 25, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> damn just got addicted to american vampire, skinner sweet is one sick mother fucker, love this shit... damn



have you by any chance tried I, vampire, I hear its good for you soul.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 25, 2012)

xtremekidx said:


> that sounds good and i would but i want to get some giude...i think there is more than 20 years worth comics...its intimidating...



HellBlazer #1-9, # 23-33, #47-50  (is a must read), #62-67,  #11, #78-83,   #41-46 , #256-258, #25-26, #245-246, #158-161, 

Hellblazer: City of Demons #1-5

Hellblazer: Pandemonium

HellBlazer all his engines (another must read).

Vertigo Resurrected #1

The Horrorist #1-2

Dark Entries 

Books of Magic #2

Swamp Thing #44-50


----------



## Hellblazer (Sep 26, 2012)

^thanks alot mate..wil sure try them all


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 26, 2012)

I had eyegasm reading I, vampire #0, I only had those once before


----------



## Platinum (Sep 26, 2012)

That art was sooooooooooooooooooooo good man. Anyone that doesn't read this should feel awful about themselves.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 26, 2012)

I seriously planning into buying another one inside a plastic bag, and put it in  frame and hang it.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm really amazed he is able to keep a monthly schedule.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 26, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I'm really amazed he is able to keep a monthly schedule.



this kind of art quality, it is just astounding this guys, I'll read any book with their names on it.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh no doubt, this is easily in the top 3 of books being released by DC.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 27, 2012)

DC is great when it comes to books like I Vampire.


----------



## Vault (Sep 27, 2012)

I have been meaning to read I vampire, that good ay?


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 27, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I thought it was incredibly cliche and lame but yeah, talk about blowing things out of proportion.



Expectations. They're swept up fast now that DC rebooted.



xtremekidx said:


> any good constantine reads which would help introduce the character?i have heard very good things about the guy!!



Delano and Ennis really set the tone.



Danger Doom said:


> Hellblazer read all of it period , no exceptions.



I'd doubt to got that far, but the series has lasted this long for a reason.



xtremekidx said:


> that sounds good and i would but i want to get some giude...i think there is more than 20 years worth comics...its intimidating...





Danger Doom said:


> HellBlazer #1-9, # 23-33, #47-50  (is a must read), #62-67,  #11, #78-83,   #41-46 , #256-258, #25-26, #245-246, #158-161,
> 
> Hellblazer: City of Demons #1-5
> 
> ...



Too bad I'm 24'd.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 27, 2012)

The Bite of the She-Wolf said:


> Expectations. They're swept up fast now that DC rebooted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As big of a DC fanboy as I am I must admit that the Vertigo line was vastly superior to their rest of comic line.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 27, 2012)

Vault said:


> I have been meaning to read I vampire, that good ay?



You are doing yourself a disservice if you don't read it.


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 27, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> As big of a DC fanboy as I am I must admit that the Vertigo line was vastly superior to their rest of comic line.



I agree I just started reading vertigo books last week and I've been blown away already, haven't even gotten to the heart of the imprint yet. The only thing that   kept my interest in the dc line was snyders batman and even that I'm behind on.  The best thing about vertigo is how the format is similar to manga which my brain is hardwired to. All the books exist in their own continuity which frees them from the shit fest that is crossovers and events...


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 27, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I agree I just started reading vertigo books last week and I've been blown away already, haven't even gotten to the heart of the imprint yet. The only thing that   kept my interest in the dc line was snyders batman and even that I'm behind on.  The best thing about vertigo is how the format is similar to manga which my brain is hardwired to. All the books exist in their own continuity which frees them from the shit fest that is crossovers and events...



I like it how basically defines what a young adult comic/graphic novel should be like in the sense it doesnt hold back itself.


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 27, 2012)

Based on Superman #0, the series will become a sci fi space adventure, where at least Superman and Superboy go back in time to Krypton. 

I've always wanted a more sci-fi space-y superman story I guess.

Hopefully his black suit allows him to retain his powers on Krypton.


----------



## Narutossss (Sep 27, 2012)

damn issue 31 of american vampire was the good shit, synder is god... knew that whore hattie was behind this mess.... pearl should have made sure the back stabbing bitch was dead.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 27, 2012)

Sooo...are we going to be getting full series spun off from the National Comics oneshots at some point? because while I didn't pick up the Looker oneshot last month I did pick up the Kid Eternity one as well the Rose and Thorn oneshot, and it seems a shame to not expand on them


----------



## Platinum (Sep 27, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Sooo...are we going to be getting full series spun off from the National Comics oneshots at some point? because while I didn't pick up the Looker oneshot last month I did pick up the Kid Eternity one as well the Rose and Thorn oneshot, and it seems a shame to not expand on them



I would hope so. 

The entire line seems like it was made to pitch series to the public.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2012)

Kid Eternity in particular was awesome.

So yeah, in other news, read Teen Titans 0. Bit of a mixed bag as far as origin changes go, but imo there was more good than bad. 

Like Tim no longer found out who Batman was, but at the same time the skills Tim did display were far more impressive than "Hey I remember that flip! DG is Robin - > Bruce is Batman!"

Also, Tim's parents going into witness protection because Tim stole $100 million from Penguin was pretty hilarious.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 30, 2012)

> Fialkov brought up another of his unused story pitches of that would have seen "I, Vampire" and "The Flash" cross over, as the evil Andrew Bennett came to Central City and turned all of the Flash's rogues into vampires. The Flash would have only 72 hours to turn them back before the change became permanent. However, that idea never made it past the pitch stage.



God damn it this sounds so awesome it should have happened.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Oct 1, 2012)

Platinum said:


> God damn it this sounds so awesome it should have happened.



I know, damn , anyways I hope TT Dark is good, any guesses on who may be in it.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 3, 2012)

Greg Capullo posted this on his twitter.


----------



## Hellblazer (Oct 3, 2012)

^super like on that!


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 3, 2012)

Dat Batgirl


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

krypto is back


----------



## Platinum (Oct 3, 2012)

Also posted these .


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

i love capullo


----------



## Platinum (Oct 3, 2012)

Jason sure looks happy to be there .


----------



## Elias (Oct 3, 2012)

I've been out of the loop for a few months.

Is Wally still nonexistent?


----------



## Platinum (Oct 3, 2012)

Pretty much.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

flash 0 introduced a new 'daniel west' character though.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 3, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> flash 0 introduced a new 'daniel west' character though.



not wally west, don't give fucks


----------



## Elias (Oct 3, 2012)

.

Oh well.
Also, did Teen Titans get a new artist or writer? I remember it being somewhat terrible / having weird art.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 3, 2012)

Same Writer/ Same Artist.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 3, 2012)

though if Bleeding Cool is to believed the artist might be leaving soon


----------



## Rukia (Oct 3, 2012)

Are we finally does with this issue #0 crap?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 3, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Are we finally does with this issue #0 crap?



yep, we're back to regular issues this week, and we've got the start of Rotworld and Rise of the Third Army


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 3, 2012)

swamp thing was designed to give whip whirlwind nightmares


----------



## Platinum (Oct 3, 2012)

Baz is in some deep shit.

Though really, Batman will find out he's innocent after he spends 30 seconds investigating his claims calling it now.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 3, 2012)

Everytime I see the Bat Family together I am hoping to see the other Batgirls. Then I get really disappointed.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 3, 2012)

If you squint your eyes and tilt your head at a 43 degree angle you can see Steph and Cass.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> swamp thing was designed to give whip whirlwind nightmares



 haven't read it yet...


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 4, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> haven't read it yet...



I think that is more of a dare .


----------



## Taleran (Oct 4, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _First images of Multiversity_


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Oh, fuck yeah. Definitely want that.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 4, 2012)

Man I never thought we'd see this project actually come to fruition.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 4, 2012)

O MY FUCKING GOD IS THAT VIC SAGE....TAKE ALLL MY FUCKING MONEY!


----------



## Taleran (Oct 4, 2012)

Kinda



Its The Question / Mr. A of their original incarnations.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 4, 2012)

Earth-Charlton, people.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 4, 2012)

You just love killing some hopes and dreams that New 52 could be pretty badass dont you. 

Do you see me coming in and ripping up yours !


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> swamp thing was designed to give whip whirlwind nightmares



Rot Robin 

And I love how rot flash just got casually beheaded.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 4, 2012)

I missed you quitely


----------



## Hellblazer (Oct 5, 2012)

so does rotworld has other heroes in it?guest appearence maybe?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 5, 2012)

yes it does. beast boy, that orchid person, and steel in animal man. and hawman sorta. poison ivy in swamp thing. and the teen titans, sorta.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2012)

so i notice no one had anything to say about batman. 

me either. it got a lot of hype, but it didn't do much for me, even though I'm still looking forward to future issues a lot. Capullo's art is great of course.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 11, 2012)

Dem Covers .


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2012)

I kinda want a batman cartoon with a style based on Capullo's. its like an updated, sleeker, better looking version of BtAS.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 11, 2012)

I actually really liked this issue, it was good set up and had nice atmosphere.  I'm excited.


----------



## Cheeky (Oct 11, 2012)

Hello all!

I'd been interested in reading comics for a while now, but I was always put off by the sheer amount and variety. The New 52 seems to have remedied that.

Anywway, I started reading the new Action Comics and have been enjoying it so far. I thought about checking out the other Superbooks but I've been told they aren't as good.

Any thoughts or opinions on this?


----------



## Platinum (Oct 11, 2012)

Supergirl is the best of the bunch I would say it's worth a read.

Superman may or may not be worth getting depending on the upcoming crossover and if that interests you. The first 12 issues were pretty meh though.

In other news can I say that I felt really bad for Harley in the batman back up?


----------



## Cheeky (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks! That seems to be a popular opinion. So I'll check that out.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 11, 2012)

No problem.

Also if you are looking for something off the beaten path check out the dark line. Justice League Dark; I, Vampire; you will find that most every book there is quality.

Also more Batman 13:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Joker fucking with Alfred? Oh lord shit is getting real. 

This is the perfect way to target the batfamily and destroy it in one stroke. Think about it, Alfred is probably more important to the batfamily than Bruce is and a believable way to rally the entire family to work together. 

But if Alfred dies Snyder you better find a bunker to hide in .


----------



## Parallax (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't think he will.  Or at least he better not

also I've always liked Capullo's art but I think he took it to another level with this issue, he was great.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 11, 2012)

Also I hope that I wont need to pick up the tie ins to get the main story because I probably wont and that would just be disappointing.


----------



## Slice (Oct 11, 2012)

I need to find time to catch up. I promised myself i would be up to date when the Joker story started and i failed.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 11, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I don't think he will.  Or at least he better not
> 
> also I've always liked Capullo's art but I think he took it to another level with this issue, he was great.



This is coming from the company that decided to erase and write out one of the most important and beloved Flashes. No, I wont let that shit go. Not now , not ever.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 11, 2012)

I liked Wally too but oh well that's how it goes.  I'd rather they'd have gotten rid of Bart but you can't always get what you want


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 11, 2012)

They didnt have to get rid of anyone. They could have Wally under a different  alias. If more than 1 GL from earth works, so can more than one Flash. Thats all I am saying.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2012)

GL is kind of a unique situation, part of the mythos is there's thousands of them.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> GL is kind of a unique situation, part of the mythos is there's thousands of them.



This is true. I completely understand the idea of 1 flash. 

Still though, I would have been okay with them going to YJ route, have him go from kid flash to college hiatus. 

I feel like wiping him out of existence is just lazy.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 11, 2012)

@Parallax

Snyder has said repeatedly that you will not need to get any of the tie ins to understand the story being told in Batman, it is self contained.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 11, 2012)

Awesome

that's super news


----------



## Gunners (Oct 11, 2012)

They could have killed Barry and kept Wally as the Flash. I was never a fan of Barry returning it'd be like Marvel reviving Gwen.


----------



## Doom85 (Oct 11, 2012)

Hell yes, official confirmation of Scott Snyder and Jim Lee for a brand new Superman series. I'll definitely be getting this one.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 11, 2012)

They are really pushing snyder aren't they?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 11, 2012)

don't complain we need a good writer on a superman book, especially with morrison leaving. 

wish it had a different artist though tbh.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm not complaining I am just noticing that they are putting him to the forefront. Rotworld, Death of The Family and now superman's 75th anniversary series.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm okay with it, but it does seem out of his wheelhouse.


----------



## typhoon72 (Oct 12, 2012)

DC trying to ruin Snyder's reputation I see


----------



## Blinky (Oct 12, 2012)

Ruin his reputation by having him write one of their biggest characters?


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 12, 2012)

^^ He is already writing their biggest character .


Hopefully I can pick up a Supes issue soon with him on it. Personally they need to start fixing up TT and JL .


----------



## Hellblazer (Oct 12, 2012)

snyder and lee on supes?cant wait for it!!!


----------



## tari101190 (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm hoping Man of Steel will be the Superman book that will regularly be enjoyable with Snyder of it. Jim Lee is good, but there are a few people I would prefer. I didn't like the art in Justice League as much as All Star Batman.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 14, 2012)

:33 

:33 

:33 

:33


----------



## Hellblazer (Oct 14, 2012)

^^^^^^^^^^^^THE HELL IS THAT?^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 14, 2012)

That is a beautiful cover. Looks like we'll be getting a Cain flashback issue.  I wonder if those are the prototypical Van Helsings that SirBatshitZombieDog was telling the Professor about.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 14, 2012)

xtremekidx said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^THE HELL IS THAT?^^^^^^^^^^^



It's the glory of an I, Vampire cover you are beholding.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 15, 2012)

meh. the actual art in the book is so much better.


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 15, 2012)

Fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu

DC is taking Cornell off Demon Knights.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 15, 2012)

So Giffen on a cosmic DC book .

Looks like we won't get all of the next wave info until Feb.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah I kind of wish Giffen had a co writer (the guy can have dialogue issues), but as far as building up the cosmic side of the DCU I'm all for it.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 16, 2012)

ugh... don't like that cover... really hate this painted cover fad and does this I vampire book even have quarter of the quality that's in American Vampire??...


----------



## Platinum (Oct 16, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> ugh... don't like that cover... really hate this painted cover fad and does this I vampire book even have quarter of the quality that's in American Vampire??...



It's on par if not better than American Vampire.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 16, 2012)

Platinum said:


> It's on par if not better than American Vampire.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 16, 2012)

Have you actually read I, Vampire ?

I read both American and I. 

I, Vampire is in the top 3 books of the new 52, there is a reason that just about every review you see of the book is 4.5 or 5 stars each issue.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 16, 2012)

American Vampire is my 1 ongoing right now, no way this "I vampire" can touch it. Does I vampire have an eisner award?? that's what I thought


----------



## Platinum (Oct 16, 2012)

Considering I, Vampire has only been out a year it's kinda lame to judge it by that dontcha think ?


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 16, 2012)

I'll give it a go, have low expectations though


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm not caught up with American Vampire, but has it done anything with any of the old common Vampire / Monster tropes?

From what I could tell AV was all about abandoning a lot of those tropes and doing something new, showing a new kind of vampire.

I Vampire is not like that at all, and totally embraces pretty much every vampire / monster trope, gleefully so, but its done in a way that has just enough of a twist to make it awesome again.

Like I remember being worried about the Van Helsings because I expected crossbows, silver stakes, etc. What a fool I was.

My point is that the 2 series are extremely different, so I'd have trouble objectively putting one over the other.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm not into the vampire fandom but AV is just awesome, for me it's the characters.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 16, 2012)

I haven't read either but both have been garnering a lot of positive word of mouth so maybe I will?

I doubt it though until I find some volumes at a cheap price


----------



## Cromer (Oct 16, 2012)

Up until about three months ago I read both books. They're very different books, but I honestly wouldn't say I Vampire is better than AV. Not yet at least, it's still just a year in. Might get even better, might fall off a cliff. AV's been consistently good for what seems like eons.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 16, 2012)

That too. Can't really compare something that's just getting off the ground to something that's well in its stride.

So does anyone here read Supergirl or Stormwatch? I hear they're both pretty good (with stormwatch starting rocky) and mainly I just want to read more good (non dark line) DC stuff. I noticed that of all the books I'm reading Batman and Wonder Woman are the only non dark ones I'm really into.

Flash is another one of my favorites, but the writing rarely goes above decent and I'm just not invested in this Barry at all.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 16, 2012)

Batman is non dark?

Is the Joker going into the police station and straight up murdering half a dozen cops not dark enough for you or something?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 16, 2012)

Parallax said:


> Batman is non dark?
> 
> Is the Joker going into the police station and straight up murdering half a dozen cops not dark enough for you or something?



Sorry, I mean the dark line. As in JLD, IVamp, Swamp Thing, etc.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 16, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> That too. Can't really compare something that's just getting off the ground to something that's well in its stride.
> 
> So does anyone here read Supergirl or Stormwatch? I hear they're both pretty good (with stormwatch starting rocky) and mainly I just want to read more good (non dark line) DC stuff. I noticed that of all the books I'm reading Batman and Wonder Woman are the only non dark ones I'm really into.
> 
> Flash is another one of my favorites, but the writing rarely goes above decent and I'm just not invested in this Barry at all.



I read both, Stormwatch is okay...though it's nothing spectacular. Supergirl in my opinion is probably the best Supes book


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 16, 2012)

Hmm, I'll definitely check that out then.

I think part of it is just that I'm mostly apathetic about the DCU in general, and I think I'm getting more bitter about the reboot the more I realize that most of the great stories being told right now didn't need it to begin with. 

Maybe it'll change down the road, but right now the DCU just seems empty.


----------



## Penance (Oct 16, 2012)

I, Vampire...Y U so sweet?


----------



## Platinum (Oct 17, 2012)

Speaking of I, Vampire, just bought the trade . My first trade purchase in over a year .


----------



## Platinum (Oct 17, 2012)

Supergirl is definitely worth getting btw.


----------



## Slice (Oct 17, 2012)

I finally managed to read the Batman issue. Worth it for : datart alone.

I hope the new version of the Joker only starts off as this 'lolevil' sociopath.
There needs to be more than that to him.


----------



## Doom85 (Oct 17, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Supergirl is definitely worth getting btw.



Yeah, I read most of the new 52 via trades (Batman, JL, and Teen Titans are the only ones I read the issues), so Supergirl's first trade comes out this week, looking forward to it. The other DCnU trades I've already got this week are Justice League Dark (fairly good, but needs to develop its cast more) and Nightwing (halfway through, pretty good so far, though I was hoping it would take place in Bludhaven since I've never gotten any Nightwing comics before).

Also got this week the first volume of Paul Dini's Zatanna (a lot of fun) and Dr. Strange Season One (pretty good). Also have ordered Batman RIP and the first trade of the Stephanie Brown/Batgirl series.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 18, 2012)

also good this week: wonder woman. 

lol'd at hera trying ice cream


----------



## Cromer (Oct 18, 2012)

Azzarello not giving 2 fucks,..


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 18, 2012)

so is anyone here reading punk rock Jesus


----------



## Cromer (Oct 19, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> so is anyone here reading punk rock Jesus



Been hearing some rave reviews about it. But is it at least a Vertigo title? Otherwise wrong thread.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 19, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Been hearing some rave reviews about it. But is it at least a Vertigo title? Otherwise wrong thread.



it's vertigo... you should give it a try. it's basically what happens when jesus christ is cloned using dna from the shroud of turin and placed in a reality tv show for the masses to enjoy, it's all filmed on a separated island which is isolated from the world.... it's a crazy read and sean murphy's art is great too

page of PRJ from is deviantart


----------



## Rukia (Oct 19, 2012)

Wow.  Waller was a badass in Suicide Squad 0.  I'm used to seeing her as more of an administrator.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 20, 2012)

So glad I won't have to read those other titles for this Death of the Family event. If DC thinks I'm buying the likes of Batgirl, Catwoman, or some of the other titles they would have been nuts.



Platinum said:


> Supergirl is definitely worth getting btw.



I like it enough to buy the trade on top of the issues I already have for it. It has been my favorite book in the Superman family so far. Although that isn't that hard at this point.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 20, 2012)

It's kind of the best super book by default. Though that's no slight on the book itself.

Also yeah Batgirl kind of sucks but her tie in seems to be one that might be worth it. 

Dick, Jason, Barbara are the three with the history with Joker and the ones that i'm interested in reading. I can honestly care less about how the joker plans on going after fucking catwoman.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 20, 2012)

uh last time I checked Action comics was still a Supes book


----------



## Platinum (Oct 20, 2012)

And I enjoy Supergirl more .

Action really isn't up to the usual morrison level of quality.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 20, 2012)

lol people read superbooks?  thought batverse took over DC.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 20, 2012)

Platinum said:


> It's kind of the best super book by default. Though that's no slight on the book itself.
> 
> Also yeah Batgirl kind of sucks but her tie in seems to be one that might be worth it.
> 
> Dick, Jason, Barbara are the three with the history with Joker and the ones that i'm interested in reading. I can honestly care less about how the joker plans on going after fucking catwoman.



Yeah the book stands pretty well on its own. I think it benefits from not being too dragged into cross overs and hopefully this upcoming one doesn't mess with the flow too much. It has been one of the most consistent titles since the reboot started.

If Batgirl wasn't being written the way it is written I think it would be worth it. If people are complaining about PTSD Babs now I don't even want to know what it is going to be like when the Joker actually shows up in that book.

And yeah, I kind of laughed when they somehow felt the need to pull the likes of Catwoman and Batwoman etc into this. Completely unnecessary.

I'm mainly going to see what he does with Bruce and the Robins not being written by Lobdell in this event.



Parallax said:


> uh last time I checked Action comics was still a Supes book



Action comics tends to be hit or miss for me. Supergirl is a lot more consistent in that regard. I don't like anything Lobdell is writing outside of Red Hood and I never even bothered with the other Superman title.



Narutossss said:


> lol people read superbooks?  thought batverse took over DC.



Supergirl is worth the read. 

It has. Like half of the 52 or at least it feels like it is close to half.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 20, 2012)

actually Batwoman won't be crossing over, as she's still fighting Medusa with Wonder Woman all the through the January solicits


----------



## Gallant (Oct 20, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> actually Batwoman won't be crossing over, as she's still fighting Medusa with Wonder Woman all the through the January solicits



My mistake then. I thought she had at least one issue listed somewhere but I must have read wrong.


----------



## Rukia (Oct 20, 2012)

The Superbooks are a joke.  Hope you guys value your money a little more than that.


----------



## Stringer (Oct 21, 2012)

Action comics is a descent book, the two latest issues were especially good.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 21, 2012)

Hey Rukia we don't judge you for buying Suicide Squad .


----------



## Rukia (Oct 21, 2012)

We just finished the Night of Owls crossover.  Each title screwed us by releasing an issue #0.  Now we have the Joker crossover to deal with?  Fuck this shit.  I'm not buying any of the Bat titles except Incorporated anymore.  I'm done.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 21, 2012)

Rukia said:


> We just finished the Night of Owls crossover.  Each title screwed us by releasing an issue #0.  Now we have the Joker crossover to deal with?  Fuck this shit.  I'm not buying any of the Bat titles except Incorporated anymore.  I'm done.



except you don't need to buy any of the crossover except for Batman...the other titles are just optional fluff


----------



## Parallax (Oct 21, 2012)

Yeah I don't buy the additional titles and I do just fine.

I loved the 0 issue month because it was a month off from buying DC comics and it got me to save money


----------



## Rukia (Oct 21, 2012)

I subscribe though.

The "I didn't want you ro reserve that issue for me" excuse doesn't work.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 21, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I subscribe though.
> 
> The "I didn't want you ro reserve that issue for me" excuse doesn't work.



which books do you have on sucscription then...as the only books that are going to really be crossing over with other books is Teen Titans and Red Hood. Batgirl, Catwoman, Suicide Squad, Batman and Robin and Nightwing all look to be self contained from what i'm seeing in the solicits


----------



## Rukia (Oct 23, 2012)

Buy the Huntress graphic novel tomorrow guys.  Support the character.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 23, 2012)

I, vampire cracked the top 5 new york times best selling graphic novels list :33


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 23, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Hey Rukia we don't judge you for buying Suicide Squad .



You got a problem with Harley Quinn ?


----------



## King Diablo (Oct 23, 2012)

I have personally read everything up to current. Besides voodoo and resurrection man. Looking forward to JLA.


----------



## Rukia (Oct 23, 2012)

Last issue of JLA was hilarious.  Cheetah beat Batman, Flash, and Superman all at once.  Earlier in the issue she knocked Wonder Woman out.


----------



## King Diablo (Oct 23, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Last issue of JLA was hilarious.  Cheetah beat Batman, Flash, and Superman all at once.  Earlier in the issue she knocked Wonder Woman out.



That's JL. JLA is a new series coming out. Martian Manhunter left Stormwatch and I believe he is going to the leader of the new JLA series. Although I do agree last issue of JL was funny.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 23, 2012)

Maybe it's because I'm not American, but I tend to get annoyed when people refer to the JL as the JLA. Bloody hell, their scope is pretty much global and extra global, what the hell?


----------



## Rukia (Oct 23, 2012)

Batman Inc tomorrow.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 23, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> You got a problem with Harley Quinn ?



if she's wearing lee's designs then my eyes aren't going anywhere near that book.


----------



## Rukia (Oct 23, 2012)

Harley Quinn has been the most fun character in Suicide Squad so far.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 23, 2012)

looking like this... no thxs


----------



## Rukia (Oct 23, 2012)

Doesn't look like that in any of the books.  Ryan Benjamin did the cover.  But he has regrettably never done pencils for Suicide Squad.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 23, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Doesn't look like that in any of the books.  Ryan Benjamin did the cover.  But he has regrettably never done pencils for Suicide Squad.



I was talking about the design not the cover...


----------



## Doom85 (Oct 23, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Maybe it's because I'm not American, but I tend to get annoyed when people refer to the JL as the JLA. Bloody hell, their scope is pretty much global and extra global, what the hell?



I think the point is that most of the heroes originate from America hence the name, and to be fair it has been referred to as JLA often in the comics (several runs, including Grant Morrison's which is probably the most well known, are titled as such). For a more diverse team we have Justice League International.


----------



## King Diablo (Oct 23, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Maybe it's because I'm not American, but I tend to get annoyed when people refer to the JL as the JLA. Bloody hell, their scope is pretty much global and extra global, what the hell?



Well the JL is still American. They work under the American government.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 23, 2012)

They actually don't work under the american government, but as said above its just where it originated.

That and some of this stuff you just gotta take it as a product of the times. That being said I like that JLA is going to be government sponsored while JL remain autonomous.


----------



## Rukia (Oct 23, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Maybe it's because I'm not American, but I tend to get annoyed when people refer to the JL as the JLA. Bloody hell, their scope is pretty much global and extra global, what the hell?


Seems pretty petty dude.


----------



## King Diablo (Oct 23, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> They actually don't work under the american government, but as said above its just where it originated.
> 
> That and some of this stuff you just gotta take it as a product of the times. That being said I like that JLA is going to be government sponsored while JL remain autonomous.


I guess that's true in that they don't answer to the American government. I would say that they represent the world at large but at the same time I believe for the most part they are still quintessentially an American Team.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 24, 2012)

So not that anyone cares, but Nicieza is now scripting Teen Titans. Not too optimistic (since it IS teen titans), but its definitely a good move by DC as they both complement the others glaring weakness.


----------



## Slice (Oct 24, 2012)

*J*ustice *L*eague *A*llovertheworld

No problem to be found here.


----------



## King Diablo (Oct 24, 2012)

I've really been enjoying wonder woman lately. In fact the whole new 52 run has been excellent.


----------



## SakugaDaichi (Oct 24, 2012)

Just finished reading The Court of the Owls and damn that was some good reading. Can't wait for Batman Monthly #5 tomorrow (UK release of Batman & Robin and Snyder's Batman).


----------



## Rukia (Oct 24, 2012)

I really like reading the Earth 2 stuff.


----------



## Cromer (Oct 24, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Seems pretty petty dude.



I reserve the right to be petty about mismatched shoes, Manchester United's midfield, and names for comic book super teams.


----------



## King Diablo (Oct 25, 2012)

Rukia said:


> I really like reading the Earth 2 stuff.



I've been enjoying it as well. I'm glad they incorporated the grey from doug wheelers run on swamp thing into it. That Grundy was made Avatar of the Grey is pretty badass as well.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2012)

Cromer said:


> I reserve the right to be petty about *mismatched shoes*, Manchester United's midfield, and names for comic book super teams.



Now that's just wrong.

That's like when someone dresses up and doesn't match their belt to their shoes.

Also, the latest issue of Teen Titans was decent! I have hope again!


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 25, 2012)

Damn Whip, you're still reading Teen Titans? That's some god level perseverance.


----------



## Narutossss (Oct 25, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Damn Whip, you're still reading Teen Titans? That's some god level perseverance.



couldn't be as bad as david finch's batman the dark knight?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Damn Whip, you're still reading Teen Titans? That's some god level perseverance.



I pop in from time to time, not every issue though. I picked up this issue since Nicieza (who's good at dialogue but bad at story) is scripting. Definitely a huge improvement.

The biggest problem with the book was the overabundance of captions and "I am going to say exactly what I am doing!" dialogue. That's not there since Nicieza actually knows how to write dialogue. 

I'd say this issue was a solid 6.5 / 7. It would have been better but it focused on Wondy's new origin, which isn't really that great.

RR's friend zoned caption reactions to hearing Cass gush about her ex boyfriend were pretty funny though 

"He had this awesome vintage Indian Chief" "I have four." "It's not a competition R.R."

"Not to get all 50 shades of gray but - " "Please don't."



Narutossss said:


> couldn't be as bad as david finch's batman the dark knight?



Arguable, which tells you all you need to know.


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 25, 2012)

Ah, I suppose Niciezia is a good reason to descend into the Titans.

I do hope this means Niciezia is back to writing more books.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 25, 2012)

only if you like mediocrity


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2012)

Parallax said:


> only if you like mediocrity



Nicieza's plots are what make most of his books mediocre, same with Lobdell and his dialogue.

I think together they could offset each others' weaknesses enough to produce something that could potentially range from decent to (dare I say it) good.

Admittedly good is a big big stretch.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 25, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I pop in from time to time, not every issue though. I picked up this issue since Nicieza (who's good at dialogue but bad at story) is scripting. Definitely a huge improvement.



That actually sounds like a decent team up. Lobdell is bad at dialogue but... I don't want to say good at plotting but he's ok at it and he has solid basic ideas that he just fails to execute.

It's not perfect, both of them seem to write plots that feel kind of directionless.


----------



## Rukia (Oct 25, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Damn Whip, you're still reading Teen Titans? That's some god level perseverance.


No kidding.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 26, 2012)

I, Vampire, JLD, Flash.

Sooo good.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 26, 2012)

^^^^ Always put the Flash first in your list homeslice .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2012)

IMO I Vampire beats Flash in quality pretty consistently. Flash has decent writing and amazing art. I vampire has great writing and equally amazing art.


----------



## Rukia (Oct 26, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I, Vampire, JLD, Flash.
> 
> Sooo good.


I like Justice League Dark quite a bit.  It is just very unique compared to the books I am reading.  It offers me something a little bit different.

I'm not crazy about the art.  But I have gotten used to it.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 26, 2012)

Can't wait for the annual to see how Constantine defeats Keanu Reeves .


----------



## Parallax (Oct 26, 2012)

New Batman Inc was good

I have come to love Burhman's art.  It's p excellent


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 26, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Can't wait for the annual to see how Constantine defeats Keanu Reeves .



 ...


----------



## Rukia (Oct 27, 2012)

Went to my comic book shop today.  Picked up Batman Incorporated #4 and Justice League Dark #13.  They didn't have the Huntress: Crossbow at the Crossroads Graphic Novel though.  So I had to have the store order it for me.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 29, 2012)

> Scott Snyder ‏@Ssnyder1835
> @JamesTheFourth - is the (Riddler) story after Joker huge? (James is one of the only people who knows what it is) Be honest.





> James Tynion IV ‏@JamesTheFourth
> The Riddler story is going to shock people in it's epic scale. It's bigger than anything Scott's done in Batman so far. @Ssnyder1835





> James Tynion IV ‏@JamesTheFourth
> That sounds like hyperbole, but it's just fact. When he described the opening to me, I got chills. This is a game changer. @Ssnyder1835





> James Tynion IV ‏@JamesTheFourth
> Both in reappropriating The Riddler as a true A-List threat in Gotham City, but also in ways I can't begin to hint at. @Ssnyder1835





> Scott Snyder ‏@Ssnyder1835
> He's a show-off, needs affirmation. But he's also a calculator RT @porcelain38: @Ssnyder1835 what's the biggest challenge writing Riddler?



Thank you based Synder. 

I need a big defining riddler story like a heroin addict needs his next fix.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 29, 2012)

Hmm, definitely interested. Not sure how a riddler story would be "epic" , although I don't really like that he's going into straight up villain territory. 

I liked the fact that Riddler was smart enough to be like "You know, repeatedly getting my ass beat by Batman sucks" and had the sense to go straight(ish). If they're taking him back to legit villain then I hope there's a good reasoning for that.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 29, 2012)

I liked Riddler in that role too but i'm pretty sure the explanation is just going to be along the lines of 'well this is the new 52 and the riddler is a pretty big villain so yeah, he's back to being bad.'


----------



## Parallax (Oct 29, 2012)

I'll believe it when I see it


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 29, 2012)

really, bigger than the joker and owl story? cmon it's still riddler...


----------



## Platinum (Oct 29, 2012)

Haters gonna hate

Gotham Year 2: How The Riddler Got His Groove Back coming to a comicstore near you.


----------



## Doom85 (Oct 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> really, bigger than the joker and owl story? cmon it's still riddler...



Don't underestimate Mr. Nigma. Let's not forget he was the mastermind of a certain big plan (don't want to say which comic arc since some may have not read it yet) against Batman that worked extremely well until near the end, and even Joker was a part of his plan. Sure, Joker played along because he liked the idea, but just pointing out the man with the riddles can definitely be very dangerous if he needs to be.


----------



## Platinum (Oct 29, 2012)

And yet that story still did massive disservice to the riddler and completely missed the core aspects of his character .


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 31, 2012)

anyone read the action comics annual? kryptonite actually makes sense for the first time ever.


----------



## Stringer (Nov 1, 2012)

The part of the issue I liked most was the last few pages with Atomic Skull's backstory. I think Landis and Sook handled it well, I'm interested to see what they have planned for him.

Justice League Dark's annual on the other hand was just perfect, undoubtedly my favorite issue of the book so far.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 1, 2012)

Only complaint I had in the annual was that amethyst and bennet were kind of rushed into the situation but that is a petty gripe.

It was great.

The JLD is by far the best justice league.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 1, 2012)

So Superman Earth One v2.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Does anyone else find it funny that Lex Luthor seems to be a stand up guy, and its his wife(also Lex Luthor) who looks to become the psychotic mad scientist?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 1, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Only complaint I had in the annual was that amethyst and bennet were kind of rushed into the situation but that is a petty gripe.
> 
> It was great.
> 
> *The JLD is by far the best justice league.*



Not exactly a huge compliment, though I certainly agree.


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 1, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Not exactly a huge compliment, though I certainly agree.



I agree and I've never read JLD, or will but anything is better than that crap johns is spewing, not even those captain marvel shazam back stories can save it


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 1, 2012)

^really?i found the latest issue to be a really interesting one..i mean more than anything in the first 12 or 0 issue!


----------



## Platinum (Nov 1, 2012)

The question cameo>>>>>>>>>>> everything that came before it in JL.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 1, 2012)

Justice League Dark Annual.  Has anyone read it yet?


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 1, 2012)

Platinum said:


> The question cameo>>>>>>>>>>> everything that came before it in JL.



did i miss him???where was it?


----------



## Platinum (Nov 1, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Justice League Dark Annual.  Has anyone read it yet?



I did. Enjoyed it thoroughly.



xtremekidx said:


> did i miss him???where was it?



The backup for issue 0


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 2, 2012)

xtremekidx said:


> ^really?i found the latest issue to be a really interesting one..i mean more than anything in the first 12 or 0 issue!



wouldn't know, dropped it after issue 6, the hulk like dialog for darkseid among other reasons was just too much bull for me. I came back for issue 7.... only for the shazam back story, then I dropped it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 2, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> I agree and I've never read JLD, or will but anything is better than that crap johns is spewing, not even those captain marvel shazam back stories can save it



You should give JLD a try. The early issues were a bit more character focused, and more "dark" , but once Jeff Lemire came aboard it became a lot more fun.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 2, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> So Superman Earth One v2.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



you just know she's going to die horribly


----------



## Rukia (Nov 2, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> You should give JLD a try. The early issues were a bit more character focused, and more "dark" , but once Jeff Lemire came aboard it became a lot more fun.


I agree man.


----------



## Gallant (Nov 2, 2012)

Rukia said:


> Justice League Dark Annual.  Has anyone read it yet?



I just did. It was a great read and the cliffhanger has me wanting the next issue already.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 2, 2012)

And of course:

Interview with Jeff Lemire by Ain't It Cool news:


And the important part in the comments:

Commenter: No JLDark questions?
Interviewer response: I love JLD too, but he said *since he is leaving the title soon*, he really didn't want to talk about it.

*BALLS*


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 2, 2012)

must be hard to maintain quality in comics with all the constant creative team changes.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 2, 2012)

It is, it's probably the most frustrating thing about reading comics from Marvel and DC.  It particularly stands out in the artist category where artists stay for around 5-6 issues, disappear then resurface to do a shitty crossover to then jump on a relaunched book and then stay on that for 4 issues.


----------



## Gallant (Nov 2, 2012)

Yeah the lack of continuity with creative teams on books pisses me off the most. JLD was good before Lemire but it has been even better with him on it. Likewise I've enjoyed John's run on Aquaman immensely so far and I'd be pissed if the rumors of him leaving it turn out to be true.

Why can't people like Lobdell get moved off of Teen Titans and Superboy instead? The people I DON'T want on a book somehow manage to stick to them like glue.


----------



## shit (Nov 3, 2012)

anyone else think the reboot has ruined the bat franchise?


----------



## Elias (Nov 3, 2012)

^ not at all.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 3, 2012)

Nope, i'm enjoying most of the bat titles.


----------



## Gallant (Nov 4, 2012)

shit said:


> anyone else think the reboot has ruined the bat franchise?



No, but it needlessly complicated aspects of it. The 5 year time line nonsense being a big culprit. I've enjoyed titles but I don't enjoy what it has done to certain aspects of the franchise.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Nov 4, 2012)

The new titles improve Bat mythos IMO.


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 4, 2012)

(NEW FAN PERSPECTIVE),Nu52 has made things so much simpler


----------



## Platinum (Nov 4, 2012)

Some more info that Scott posted on his twitter.



> Story after Joker (after a couple issues dealing w/aftermath) will be 9 issues.





> Scott Snyder ‏@Ssnyder1835
> @aidandonnellan But I plot stories way ahead, w/big outlines, get approval. Tinker in advance. Have friends who are the opposite.





> Scott Snyder ‏@Ssnyder1835
> For ex, the story after Joker will be plotted almost issue by issue by couple weeks from now, w/some areas in middle to explore. So thru #29



So he's on at least through issue 29.


----------



## shit (Nov 4, 2012)

I hate what the reboot has done to harley, joker, and mr. freeze, and those are basically the only old villains shown again after the boot

does anyone like the direction those characters are going now?


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 4, 2012)

id agree about mr freeze,they made him from someone you could sympathize with to a stalker basically but other than that what is wrong..i dont know why people hate harley so much..i actually like her new design and TBH joker looks and feels awesome right now...


----------



## shit (Nov 4, 2012)

him having his face cut off is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of, and there's no possible raisin in the world for it


----------



## shit (Nov 4, 2012)

and didn't joker throw harley in a vat of chemicals so she could be like him?

they're trying to go to the extreme with these two, and it just comes off as stupid imo


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 4, 2012)

Other than cutting off his face there's no real difference in how Joker is acting, he's just scary now

Harley i'll give you,as her origin not only cheapers her character but that of the Joker as well...but that's Suicide Squad's fault not Snyder's


----------



## shit (Nov 4, 2012)

cutting his face off isn't something they can undo tho

the days of him being a funny panel in some issues are over


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 4, 2012)

shit said:


> cutting his face off isn't something they can undo tho
> 
> the days of him being a funny panel in some issues are over



That doesn't mean they've ruined his character though. and him being faceless could be fixed later considering the level of tech and magic in dc


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 4, 2012)

they fixed harvy's face,how hard could joker be?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 4, 2012)

Joker is pretty much the same as he's ever been

which is to say he's never been consistent in tone


----------



## Huey Freeman (Nov 4, 2012)

I always have place in my heart for Harley , though making her like the Joker is kid of stupid.

I am more pissed at how the handled the other Bat rogues. Ventriloquist some buff guy .


----------



## Platinum (Nov 4, 2012)

I was a little eh on Mister Freeze's changes, even if I must admit that they have a point about it stretching  the suspension of disbelief. 

No problem with the Joker at all, his character is dynamic by design. Harley you have a point with.

Penguin got a good shake and Scarecrow is having a decent story in the dark knight.


----------



## hehey (Nov 4, 2012)

Penguins like everywhere these days, in Tim's new origin story, Catwoman, major arc about him in Detective, friggin even showed up in Batwing.

Fuck Mr. Freezes new Origin, its one thing to make him a psycho stalker its another thing entirely to make him kill his own mother, hes no longer a sympathetic villain.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 5, 2012)

Yeah, freeze's new origin was pretty meh. Seemed a bit of a retread of james jr.

But while I think Batman is great right now, I don't think the batman line in general is really better.


----------



## Slice (Nov 5, 2012)

Cant really say anything about that since i only read (Snyder) Batman and Inc.
A reworking of Freeze is ok, but they dont seem to do it right.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 5, 2012)

I guess as a whole, it's honestly never really been very good if you think about it.  That being said Morrison and Snyder's current books are personal favorites and on my short list of monthly pick up books.


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 5, 2012)

has anybody here read aquaman #13?its awesome!


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 5, 2012)

heh Vibe's getting his own solo series in febuary


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 5, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I guess as a whole, it's honestly never really been very good if you think about it.  That being said Morrison and Snyder's current books are personal favorites and on my short list of monthly pick up books.



A good chunk of the 90s were pretty good for the bat family. Although there were definitely too many crossovers. But there was a decent stretch where 'Tec, Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing, and BoP were all pretty good/great.

But mainly I just really liked the status quo of batman reborn and up till flashpoint. The actual stories were of varying quality, but I liked how every character had their niche or direction where the character was either in an interesting place or could easily be put into an interesting place.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, lol Vibe and Katana, but at least Green Arrow is finally going to be good.

I just hope someone good gets put on I vampire to replace Sorrentino. I'd hate the idea of the dark line just becoming a proving ground for their more mainstream books.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 5, 2012)

I liked the status quo of Reborn a lot but even I felt that as a whole it was very underwhelming, especially considering the things that Morrison was doing.  Unfair comparison maybe but that's the way I see it.  There is usually a Batman title worth picking up but what I mean that as a whole the overall average of the titles is just that, average.


----------



## Stringer (Nov 5, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> heh Vibe's getting his own solo series in febuary


To see a character like Vibe receive his own series before Captain Marvel or Vic Sage is disheartening.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Nov 5, 2012)

Vibe is another case of affirmative action by DC . They took off Mr. Terrific and Static now Vibe must fill that role which is fucking stupid because Renee is Hispanic as well and she can be written far better.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 5, 2012)

Parallax said:


> I liked the status quo of Reborn a lot but even I felt that as a whole it was very underwhelming, especially considering the things that Morrison was doing.  Unfair comparison maybe but that's the way I see it.  There is usually a Batman title worth picking up but what I mean that as a whole the overall average of the titles is just that, average.



I think Batgirl and Red Robin (2nd half of Yost) were above average, same with Streets of Gotham when it wasn't fill in. 

Some of it was just poor or inconsistent creative, but I think the fact that the reboot was looming certainly didn't help. There wasn't much between setting stuff up based on Morrison's run and tieing things up due to flashpoint.

Mainly I just feel like the current status quo is really lacking because they failed to take advantage of any of the setup pre flashpoint, although obviously part of that is due to continuity changes. But the fact that Dick is back to being batman lite is really depressing. The entirety of his experiences as Batman has basically been summed up with that one line about his fundamentals being on point or whatever. It ignores all the weight and development that came from him actually being Batman, and not just filling in like in Prodigal.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 5, 2012)

I definitely disliked that the most and it's the most frustrating part of the Batman reboot and I do agree that the Bat titles went a step down post Flashpoint


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 5, 2012)

I think part of it is that the bat fam is so fractured and isolated now. Like there's all this talk of "death of the family" but there really isn't much of a family beyond bruce/dick/damian/alfred.

In other news, holy crap Green Arrow is going to rock:


----------



## Parallax (Nov 5, 2012)

Sorrentino is talented and I like Lemire but for some reason I'm not really sold on this title : /


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 5, 2012)

At the very least Lemire certainly namedropped the right titles (Diggle's Year One, Grell's run, Denny's Question) to get me interested. 

And yeah Sorrentino is just amazing. 

Overall though there's a lot of DC characters I want to like again, so more power to them. Now they just need to put Kindt and Fialkov on some higher profile stuff.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2012)

well that was unexpected. 

never heard of the vibe writer so I don't have high hopes for it. at least that's a character you can do practically anything with, so it has the potential to be different.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2012)

xtremekidx said:


> id agree about mr freeze,they made him from someone you could sympathize with to a stalker basically but other than that what is wrong..i dont know why people hate harley so much..i actually like her new design and TBH joker looks and feels awesome right now...



The problem with Freeze is that the thing that makes him an interesting character only works in one story. The whole sympathetic thing is good but other than that one episode in the cartoon can you think of examples of it being utilized well? 



Petes12 said:


> well that was unexpected.
> 
> never heard of the vibe writer so I don't have high hopes for it. at least that's a character you can do practically anything with, so it has the potential to be different.



If they essentially have him as a jersey shore asshole it could be amusing for better or worse.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2012)

dont be stupid.


anyway... do you guys think this means lemire is leaving one of his other books? and is I, Vampire cancelled?


----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2012)

I dunno. I can't see his Animal Man ending now and they want JL Dark to be a thing for that event next year don't they?


----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2012)

> and is I, Vampire cancelled?



The series getting cancelled are Frankenstein, Blue Beetle, Legion Lost and Grifter. 

Oh and that guy writing Vibe was one of the writers on the Justice League cartoon. 

btw did anyone here read Layman's detective comics issue? Thoughts?


----------



## Platinum (Nov 5, 2012)

You gotta be shitting me, Vibe and fucking Katana are getting solos before Cyborg and The Question ?

Green Arrow is going to fucking rule so hard though.



Petes12 said:


> dont be stupid.
> 
> 
> anyway... do you guys think this means lemire is leaving one of his other books? and is I, Vampire cancelled?



No it's just getting a new artist.

Dennis Calero is taking over from 15 on.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 5, 2012)

Blinky said:


> btw did anyone here read Layman's detective comics issue? Thoughts?



I like it a lot so far, although the way he writes damian kind of annoys me. Seems him and Tomasi both veer too much into normal kid territory when it comes to his speech.



Platinum said:


> No it's just getting a new artist.
> 
> Dennis Calero is taking over from 15 on.



Looking at some of his noir covers it doesn't seem like a bad fit. I'm cautiously optimistic.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 5, 2012)

Me too.

As long as the art is good i'm happy. I Vampire needs to survive for as long as possible damn it .


----------



## Platinum (Nov 5, 2012)

Some interesting facts about Scott Lobdell's series he gave in an interview at LBCC.

- Clark Kent is going to blow the lid on the government's involvement in the Suicide Squad.

- Jason is going to give joker a massive beatdown in the death of the family apparently and issue 17 of RHATO is going to be exclusively Bruce and Jason. Killer Croc will be appearing in issue 16 as well.

- Solstice is going back to her pre new 52 look.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2012)

Really? the worst robin is gonna beat down Joker?


----------



## Platinum (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't think he's going to beat the joker, but he is always the one that gets to take a crowbar to him .


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 5, 2012)

Well it looks like i'll be finally picking up a Green Arrow comic then, after years of it being shit



Platinum said:


> Some interesting facts about Scott Lobdell's series he gave in an interview at LBCC.
> 
> - Clark Kent is going to blow the lid on the government's involvement in the Suicide Squad.
> 
> ...



Good because her current one is awful


----------



## Doom85 (Nov 5, 2012)

I far prefer her smoke-monster look, but that's just me.

So the official next wave is Threshold, JLA, Katana, and Vibe. Threshold and JLA are definite buys, Katana is a maybe (not that huge on her as a solo character, but the promo art is really impressive), and Vibe is most likely a pass unless it gets great reviews.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 5, 2012)

One more series to be announced.

Threshold is replacing GI combat not one of the other four that were canceled.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 5, 2012)

Vibe and Katana just come off as something we really didn't need a series for. I mean who looks at Birds of Prey and says "Hey this pale Japanese chick with the possessed sword sure needs her own series" or "Hey remember that one dude from that Justice League Detroit comic, he sure needs a comic even though nobody knows who the fuck he is"


----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2012)

Honestly did not know there was even a Justice League Detroit.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2012)

katana could be cool, if it had a really good team. nocenti hasn't really impressed me though.


----------



## Doom85 (Nov 5, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Vibe and Katana just come off as something we really didn't need a series for. I mean who looks at Birds of Prey and says "Hey this pale Japanese chick with the possessed sword sure needs her own series" or "Hey remember that one dude from that Justice League Detroit comic, he sure needs a comic even though nobody knows who the fuck he is"



For me, it all depends on how well-done the story is and such. I mean, if one had never read an Animal Man comic before it's most likely one's reaction would be, "does Animal Man really need his own book?"

Though it does seem kinda overexposure for her, Birds of Prey (assuming she's still on the team, I've only read the first trade), JLA, and now her own solo. But at least it feels like Katana had some proper set-up to make her more well-known to people, whereas Vibe just practically came out of nowhere. If DC really wanted a Vibe solo book, they should waited for another future wave after he had gotten some exposure with the JLA title.

I was really expecting at least one of the following to be announced with JLA and Threshold: Shazam!, Cyborg, or Red Robin. Oh well, if JLA and Threshold are the only ones I end up getting that means it balances out for me when Legion Lost and Blue Beetle wrap up.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 5, 2012)

Even if you never read an Animal Man before if you're into DC you probably would have heard about Grant Morrison's run being a thing. 

I'm okay with the whole Vibe series thing since fuck it why not. He's likely going to be nothing like he was in that JL Detroit thing.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2012)

There's a JL Detroit?


----------



## Huey Freeman (Nov 6, 2012)

Katana could be cool if they went down a route of the series be mostly involve with DC martial Artist. 

Richard Dragon nuff said .


----------



## Platinum (Nov 6, 2012)

JL Detroit didn't last all that long believe it or not .


----------



## Cromer (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm cautiously excited about Katana. But Vibe? Over Question? I'd rather they exploited some of the Milestone characters, and I don't give a darn about most of them.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 6, 2012)

Blinky said:


> Even if you never read an Animal Man before if you're into DC you probably would have heard about Grant Morrison's run being a thing.
> 
> I'm okay with the whole Vibe series thing since *fuck it why not*. He's likely going to be nothing like he was in that JL Detroit thing.



The entirety of my opinion on both Vibe and Katana.

Of course, I think there are other more interesting asian martial arts based characters, but unfortunately they are not permitted to exist.


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 6, 2012)

don't know if you guys already know but looks like cass and steph might be back. seems like artist Dustin Nguyen is going to be or has launched his own little bat title and those two are in the art work he posted on his deviantart page and the dc site.


----------



## Doom85 (Nov 6, 2012)

Cromer said:


> But Vibe? Over Question?



I think a Question solo is likely but probably after whatever role he'll play in Trinity War.

Blinky: actually, I was referring to before Grant Morrison's run.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2012)

I'd rather have a vibe series than a green arrow series. I can't believe they put a creative team on that book that means I have to check it out


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2012)

well you don't have to petes no one is forcing you


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 6, 2012)

Narutossss said:


> don't know if you guys already know but looks like cass and steph might be back. seems like artist Dustin Nguyen is going to be or has launched his own little bat title and those two are in the art work he posted on his deviantart page and the dc site.



That's lil gotham, which isn't in continuity at all. And hilariously, the halloween issue that had a little blond girl in steph's batgirl costume had the hair color changed from blonde to black.


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 6, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> That's lil gotham, which isn't in continuity at all. And hilariously, the halloween issue that had a little blond girl in steph's batgirl costume had the hair color changed from blonde to black.


looooooooool they're that against them... I guess young justice might be cass/steph's only hope


----------



## Cromer (Nov 6, 2012)

Even though DC's variety improved with the reboot, I'm still missing that 'crazy balls-to-the-wall martial arts' book. Pity, Katana could have been it, but the creative team does not give hope.


The Dark Knight Returns. Is it any good? Should I pay cold hard cash, or go ahead and, ahem, *procure* it anyway?


----------



## Huey Freeman (Nov 6, 2012)

Cromer said:


> The Dark Knight Returns. Is it any good? Should I pay cold hard cash, or go ahead and, ahem, *procure* it anyway?



As in the  Animated Movie? Buy the goddamn Blueray!


----------



## Rukia (Nov 7, 2012)

The new World's Finest sounds interesting.  Huntress vs Damian.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> That's lil gotham, which isn't in continuity at all. And hilariously, the halloween issue that had a little blond girl in steph's batgirl costume had the hair color changed from blonde to black.



I actually thought it was a joke at first, its amazing how DC seems to be going out of their way to piss off steph fans


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2012)

Parallax said:


> well you don't have to petes no one is forcing you



But I do  

creators always come first with me. But man, I hate green arrow.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I actually thought it was a joke at first, its amazing how DC seems to be going out of their way to piss off steph fans



Yeah it's getting ridiculous at this point. 

You'd think they'd be smart and just let Steph fans have this one after what happened with the whole smallville thing. They're really not doing anything to dissuade the idea that there is an agenda against the character.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 7, 2012)

Damian flat out sucks.  His mother did a terrible job training him.  And Bruce did a terrible job training him.  With his pedigree he should be lethal.  But he isn't.  I have never seen him win a fight to tell you the truth.  Every fight goes the same way.  Damian acts overconfident and his opponent makes him look silly.  Seriously Damian gets mocked and ridiculed during every fight.  He should hang it up.  Batman needs a better Robin.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 7, 2012)




----------



## Blinky (Nov 7, 2012)

I really like Damian.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 7, 2012)

Terry>Damien


----------



## Platinum (Nov 7, 2012)

Okay the new Green Lantern was awesome. 

I liked that Baz was being realistic and actually smart knowing he had zero chance against any of them (Except maybe Batman lol). 

I'm glad to see the random hero vs hero misunderstanding brawl is being subverted more and more often.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 8, 2012)

Blinky said:


> I really like Damian.


Why isn't he stronger though?  Helena was totally playing around with him.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 8, 2012)

Because he's 10 years old? At his age, probably only Dick Grayson was that good.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 8, 2012)

The Hellblazer is dead, long live the Hellblazer.



DCU Solo John Constantine series is a go.


----------



## Vault (Nov 8, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I'm glad to see the random hero vs hero misunderstanding brawl is being subverted more and more often.



I Vampire did that the best  I remember laughing and thinking, thank you for not wasting our time.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 8, 2012)

Taleran said:


> The Hellblazer is dead, long live the Hellblazer.
> 
> 
> 
> DCU Solo John Constantine series is a go.



For some reason I didn't think this was going to happen purely because it hadn't happened yet. 

If that makes sense.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2012)

Cromer said:


> Because he's 10 years old? At his age, probably only Dick Grayson was that good.



This.

I'm glad that while very skilled ,it's still not enough to completely ignore his age / size disadvantage.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2012)

I'm sad about Hellblazer

in place we're gonna get a pedestrian book in the DCU

sad day


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2012)

I agree Hellblazer should have continued on. 

I like DCU constantine well enough, but they're completely different characters.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2012)

There's the grant morrison I love. His stuff has been hit or miss, but he's been hitting more often lately. Shame he's leaving the book after this story. But I like how all the different villains he's done are being linked together.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2012)

ps in animal man, so far we've had buddy and friends killing

hawkman
hawk
dove
grifter
and deathstroke

methinks Lemire is not a fan of Liefeld


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2012)

holy shit they actually killed off Hawkman?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2012)

well. rotworld hawkman. have you not been following this book


----------



## Cromer (Nov 8, 2012)

Methinks he must have drifted away after a while...it happened to me for a bit.


I suppose we can expect the Ravagers and Caitlin Fairchild to be next on the kill list?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> well. rotworld hawkman. have you not been following this book



obviously not if I reacted that way

low funds dawg


----------



## Doom85 (Nov 8, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> ps in animal man, so far we've had buddy and friends killing
> 
> hawkman
> hawk
> ...



LMAO, I follow Animal Man through trades so I'm not at this point yet, but that sounds hilarious. Granted, I have no problem with those characters (well, Hawk, Dove, Hawkman, and Slade, I'm not that familiar with Grifter save for his small role in Flashpoint), but Liefeld did a piss poor job with them so yeah.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 8, 2012)

Can anyone tell me all the symbols and who they belong to in the batman preview image?



Only ones I recognize are Tim's, Dick's, and Bab's. I assume the globe is for Batman Inc?


----------



## Rukia (Nov 8, 2012)

One for Damian.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 8, 2012)

Hellblazer ending makes me a sad panda

though I suppose I will check out the new Constantine series, just to give it a try


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 8, 2012)

Wait, so they're just relaunching Hellblazer with a new name? Thats so very unlike Vertigo...


----------



## Platinum (Nov 8, 2012)

Not all that surprising sadly enough.

And it's not a relaunch.

Constantine is going to be new 52 Constantine.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 8, 2012)

...well, crap. That just sucks.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Nov 8, 2012)

If they fuck over Hellblazer in any way. I probably going to cancel all my sub.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 9, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Can anyone tell me all the symbols and who they belong to in the batman preview image?
> 
> 
> 
> Only ones I recognize are Tim's, Dick's, and Bab's. I assume the globe is for Batman Inc?



nightwing, robin obviously, red hood

red robin, batgirl, batman inc


----------



## Blinky (Nov 9, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> There's the grant morrison I love. His stuff has been hit or miss, but he's been hitting more often lately. Shame he's leaving the book after this story. But I like how all the different villains he's done are being linked together.



Morrison's Batman is something I grew to appreciate over time. At first I just found it hard to read through because it was pretty unlike any other Batman series I knew but once I got to Batman and Robin I loved it.


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Nov 12, 2012)

To many batman titles
 I want Resurrection Man back
 Frankenstein agent of shade, Legion Lost should not have been cancelled either
 To many green Lantern titles


----------



## Cromer (Nov 12, 2012)

On the contrary, just enough Green Lantern i.e. We don't need anymore.

Something odd I noticed, the first 8 or 9 issues, I was enjoying Animal Man over Swamp Thing. Since Rotworld started however, it's been so reversed that reading AM is becoming a chore. What happened to Lemire?


----------



## tari101190 (Nov 12, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Can anyone tell me all the symbols and who they belong to in the batman preview image?
> 
> 
> 
> Only ones I recognize are Tim's, Dick's, and Bab's. I assume the globe is for Batman Inc?


Nightwing, Robin, Batwing
Red Robin, Batgirl, Batman Inc.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2012)

Cromer said:


> On the contrary, just enough Green Lantern i.e. We don't need anymore.
> 
> Something odd I noticed, the first 8 or 9 issues, I was enjoying Animal Man over Swamp Thing. Since Rotworld started however, it's been so reversed that reading AM is becoming a chore. What happened to Lemire?



I think the art change hurt animal man. I always liked swamp thing more though


----------



## Cromer (Nov 12, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I think the art change hurt animal man. I always liked swamp thing more though



it's not just the art though (though Travel Foreman did awesome work, Paquette is a whole different level), the writing's taken a dip. I'm beginning to think maybe Lemire is involved in too many projects at once, and burn out is showing.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2012)

maybe it's the crossover effect. rotworld seems to be more swamp thing's story and animal man's the one along for another character's ride.

after all rotworld separated the family that half makes the book what it is.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2012)

and the horror type stuff is kinda hurt by the feeling there's a giant reset button hovering over all this.


----------



## shit (Nov 12, 2012)

this thread doesn't need to be stickied anymore yo


----------



## Cromer (Nov 12, 2012)

shit said:


> this thread doesn't need to be stickied anymore yo



You sure? Still the busiest thread here.


----------



## shit (Nov 12, 2012)

there's literally no chance of it falling off the first page even if it goes a month with no replies


----------



## shit (Nov 12, 2012)

also the marvel thread is more popular

trufax


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Nov 13, 2012)

Cromer said:


> On the contrary, just enough Green Lantern i.e. We don't need anymore.
> 
> Something odd I noticed, the first 8 or 9 issues, I was enjoying Animal Man over Swamp Thing. Since Rotworld started however, it's been so reversed that reading AM is becoming a chore. What happened to Lemire?



3 titles though..it was cool before they introduced a new lantern. The new guy is cool, but to replace Sinestro and hal if just for awhile? lame.



Petes12 said:


> and the horror type stuff is kinda hurt by the feeling there's a giant reset button hovering over all this.



I doubt they even left the rot.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 13, 2012)

Baz is a great character though.

Speaking of great things:







Dem covers.


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Nov 14, 2012)

that Constantine...always getting to shit.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 14, 2012)

So Batgirl 14.

Joker or his croney forces Barbara to make a sandwhich.... lol.


----------



## creative (Nov 14, 2012)

red hood is dying again? seriously DC, this shit wasn't funny the second time. the fucks the matter with ya?


----------



## Platinum (Nov 14, 2012)

He ain't dying. 

The solicit directly states otherwise and Lobdell already said that this issue is exclusively Bruce Wayne and Jason Todd confronting each other.


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Nov 14, 2012)

man I have not even started Batgirl or Batman and Robin. Or Catwoman.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 14, 2012)

....

You can skip most of Catwoman lol.


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Nov 14, 2012)

Platinum said:


> ....
> 
> You can skip most of Catwoman lol.



........to...many....batman comics.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 14, 2012)

Catwoman sucks.

Maybe read the DOTF tie ins?

You are literally missing nothing.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 15, 2012)

So I just caught up with JL Dark. Is it me, or did the Books of Magic end up being New Gods tech? The design reminds me of the Mother Box.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 15, 2012)

Haven't read JLD in a shamefully long time. Have to get to it...soon as I'm done with Saga...and Punk Rock Jesus...and Thief of Thieves...mmm...


----------



## tari101190 (Nov 15, 2012)

I just realized the new JLA book is just the New Outsdiers.


----------



## Doom85 (Nov 15, 2012)

tari101190 said:


> I just realized the new JLA book is just the New Outsdiers.



Actually, the Katana solo is supposed to be about here forming an Outsiders team reportedly.


----------



## Stringer (Nov 15, 2012)

I just read Demon Knights 14, there's some funky business going on with Shining Knight. At first I assumed it was the case of a female pretending to be a boy but turns out he/she's a hermaphrodite or something, lol DC.


----------



## Blinky (Nov 16, 2012)

Unshaken Faith said:


> I just read Demon Knights 14, there's some funky business going on with Shining Knight. At first I assumed it was the case of a female pretending to be a boy but turns out he/she's a hermaphrodite or something, lol DC.



That was most likely Cornell's move since he likes having characters who represent some group in society that typically aren't represented in comics.


----------



## Stringer (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah seems so, I have read an interview today addressing his plans when he revamped Ystin's character.

This issue was nice overall but I've been losing interest in DK as of late, I'm waiting to see what Venditti does with the book in the first two months of his run before I decide whether to drop it or not.


----------



## Platinum (Nov 16, 2012)

So.... DOTF.

Damn.


----------



## Legend (Nov 16, 2012)

I think its about time i started posting here


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 17, 2012)

had fun reading this weeks comic?anybody read batgirl 14???is it good?


----------



## Legend (Nov 17, 2012)

I've heard it's pretty good, I saw the previews, I picked up Batman 14 a few hours ago and it's great


----------



## Platinum (Nov 17, 2012)

Best sandwich making scene of the week.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 17, 2012)

I think i'm dropping Phantom Stranger. it continues to just bore me. might pick up Team 7 though


----------



## Legend (Nov 18, 2012)

Phantom Stranger is pretty good imo, not a top buy but still good, even if it feels different than before


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 22, 2012)

So Wonder Woman was decent again. Finally got to meet the "child" from the prophecy. Interesting how his story is similar to Zeus's.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 22, 2012)

Alright so iam Reading the Recent RHATO where Superman Shows up.

Now iam not reading any of his ongoings, and i tune in and out of Justice League, but is Superman being a Sassy Bitch now a thing?  cause i could get behind that


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 22, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> So Wonder Woman was decent again. Finally got to meet the "child" from the prophecy. Interesting how his story is similar to Zeus's.



It's not what I expected (figured itd be a god older than zeus) but it makes sense and it's a cool idea. his story mirror's zeus' in the same way that zeus' story mirrored his own father's.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 22, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Alright so iam Reading the Recent RHATO where Superman Shows up.
> 
> Now iam not reading any of his ongoings, and i tune in and out of Justice League, but is Superman being a Sassy Bitch now a thing?  cause i could get behind that



I wouldn't say so but lobdell is writing Superman too so I guess in that book he'll probably be the same


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 22, 2012)

By the way, is this new artist staying for a while on the Red Hood book? 'Cause I might drop it if he is.


----------



## The Big G (Nov 22, 2012)

If Isabel the Flight Attendant dies in RHATO then I'm gunna be PISSSSED


----------



## Platinum (Nov 24, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> By the way, is this new artist staying for a while on the Red Hood book? 'Cause I might drop it if he is.



It was a fill in artist.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 24, 2012)

Phew, thats good news.

On another note, I have to say, while the Blue Beetle book is mediocre, I am sad to see it be canceled. I'm going to miss the Reach.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 25, 2012)

The Reach will probably still pop up in Green Lantern books.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 25, 2012)

I dunno. I can see Tomasi maybe using them. But not Bedard, and definitely not Johns. Unless the Reach plot follows Beetle into whatever book he pops up in next, I doubt we'll be seeing them for a while.


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 25, 2012)

teen titans maybe?


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 25, 2012)

God I hope not. I'd rather not see Beetle again than see it fall into that piece of crap.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 25, 2012)

Bergelmir said:


> Phew, thats good news.
> 
> On another note, I have to say, while the Blue Beetle book is mediocre, I am sad to see it be canceled. I'm going to miss the Reach.



I expect the Reach will pop up in Threshold since Beetle's going to be in that...probably the GL books as well once the Third Army and First Lantern stuff is done


----------



## Legend (Nov 25, 2012)

That artist in RHATO was ugh


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 27, 2012)

So apparently Raven is now Etrigan's aunt since Belial is Trigon's son.


----------



## Slice (Nov 28, 2012)

Grant Morrison being in charge of not giving a shit about the relaunch.
Saw some preview pages of the new Inc issue (cant link right now - i'm at work) and the 666 future still has Barbara in a wheelchair.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 28, 2012)

Slice said:


> Grant Morrison being in charge of not giving a shit about the relaunch.
> Saw some preview pages of the new Inc issue (cant link right now - i'm at work) and the 666 future still has Barbara in a wheelchair.





That is hilarious. Can't wait to see the  from babsgirl fans.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 28, 2012)

Morrison just does not give a darn


----------



## Parallax (Nov 28, 2012)

Nor should he

he's done enough for the company only to have it wiped away why should he give a damn anymore.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 28, 2012)

It's not really even that big of a deal the more I think about it. It's a potential future, there's plenty of those in the DCU. I don't think its any different than Rot Robin and co. getting sliced up in Animal Man.


----------



## Hellblazer (Nov 28, 2012)

pge 100 of thread is coming.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 29, 2012)

Just read Inc. Morrison still writes the most entertaining fanfic.


----------



## Slice (Nov 29, 2012)

xtremekidx said:


> pge 100 of thread is coming.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2012)

man flash, one month it looks great the next it looks really awkward


----------



## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Morrison will never give a shit about the new continuity . I consider Inc to be taking place on some other earth myself.

Also speaking of Inc. Shouldn't Constantine know Bruce Wayne is Batman's backer since that's very public knowledge? Referring to the new JLD issue.

I would also like to say that Aquaman and I, Vampire continue to be the greatest things DC puts out.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2012)

you say that but other than oracle in a future timeline his story works just fine in the new continuity- except for the final crisis stuff


----------



## Parallax (Nov 29, 2012)

It does work fine, especially since Inc was referenced in Snyder's Batman last issue and a few Bat books here and then


----------



## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Those really just feel like passing mentions. 

Jason working for Bruce really doesn't jive at all, especially with all the DOTF ongoings. It really only works if you believe that Inc takes place a few months after all that is going on recently in the other bat books and that the two of them will reconcile after this arc.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 29, 2012)

I guess

but who cares about continuity anyways


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2012)

jason's working with everyone pretty well in snyder's run and doesn't seem remotely revenge focused at all in red hood. his jason actually works really well for what they're doing right now. 

kinda makes jason pointless though if he's not 'bad robin', just 'robin who is surly'


----------



## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> jason's working with everyone pretty well in snyder's run and doesn't seem remotely revenge focused at all in red hood. his jason actually works really well for what they're doing right now.



No.

It's been pretty established that Barbara, Dick and Damian either loathe him entirely or want nothing to do with him. Tim is the only one that gives him the time of day. 

He's not really revenge focused, but he still isn't particularly fond of anyone and basically abandoned gotham to run with kori and roy in space and shit. The only difference is that he doesn't needlessly antagonize Bruce anymore.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Those really just feel like passing mentions.
> 
> Jason working for Bruce really doesn't jive at all, especially with all the DOTF ongoings. It really only works if you believe that Inc takes place a few months after all that is going on recently in the other bat books and that the two of them will reconcile after this arc.



What about Jason and Bruce has been mentioned in DOTF so far? You could say him not alerting jason was a red flag, but at the same time he might just not trust Jason when it comes to Joker in particular.

Overall I think the Jason / Batfam relationship has been significantly changed since flashpoint. Heck, in RH superman even says that Bats vouches for Jason.

EDIT: Damian pretty much loathes Tim too, but that doesn't mean he'd refuse to work with him.

Where Dick's concerned, I think he's pretty much indifferent. I don't think they'd have a problem working together so long as Jason behaves while he's around them (no killing).

To me it's not too off base for Jason to help out with something like what happened in INC.


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## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2012)

Platinum said:


> No.
> 
> It's been pretty established that Barbara, Dick and Damian either loathe him entirely or want nothing to do with him. Tim is the only one that gives him the time of day.
> 
> He's not really revenge focused, but he still isn't particularly fond of anyone and basically abandoned gotham to run with kori and roy in space and shit. The only difference is that he doesn't needlessly antagonize Bruce anymore.



Damian loathes everyone. 

Jason was brought in on court of the owls and on Joker's return, I dunno why you say he wasn't. He's actually being treated like part of the team, if anything it makes it seem like Inc takes place before all that.


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## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Overall I think the Jason / Batfam relationship has been significantly changed since flashpoint. Heck, in RH superman even says that Bats vouches for Jason.



And this surprises the shit out of him that Bruce would vouch for him to Clark.

If he was working with him in secret this wouldn't be all that surprising wouldn't it?


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## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> Damian loathes everyone.
> 
> Jason was brought in on court of the owls and on Joker's return, I dunno why you say he wasn't. He's actually being treated like part of the team, if anything it makes it seem like Inc takes place before all that.



Tim was the one that contacted Jason, not Alfred or Bruce.  When he drops off Freeze Babs threatens to beat the shit out of him and toss him in Arkham if he returns to Gotham. Please tell me where the love is here . And Jason learned about the Jokers return from the Joker himself


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## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2012)

That I don't recall. He's still being treated as part of the team now in this joker story.


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## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> That I don't recall. He's still being treated as part of the team now in this joker story.



He intercepts Alfred asking for help when they are about to leave Gotham, Tim notices someone is listening in and asks Jason to help them out.

In the new Red Hood issue he learns Joker returned from Joker himself, after he poisons the chick he was banging and starts mocking him on TV. He's probably forcing himself in, as you can see in the preview pages no one looks particularly thrilled that he's there.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2012)

Platinum said:


> And this surprises the shit out of him that Bruce would vouch for him to Clark.
> 
> If he was working with him in secret this wouldn't be all that surprising wouldn't it?



I just took it as a difference between Jason working with Bruce under his supervision and following his orders and Bruce throwing out a blanket "he's cool" to superman of all people.


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## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2012)

now shush


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## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Bruce would warn him if Joker is out to kill him, not the same as them working together .

And his logo is red, so it's either an unknown bat ally or a coloring error .


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## Petes12 (Nov 29, 2012)

coloring error obviously. 

you're trying really hard to ignore how much shit has cooled between jason and bruce in every book involving them.


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## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> coloring error obviously.
> 
> you're trying really hard to ignore how much shit has cooled between jason and bruce in every book involving them.



I've outright stated that it's obvious that Jason no longer feels the need to antagonize batman anymore. But he's still a criminal that kills people. It's also really clear that he's been out doing his own thing for quite some time now and personally I find it hard to reconcile that with him working for Batman as a super secret agent. 

This is my own personal gripe. I acknowledge it's all continuity but it doesn't jive with me.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2012)

I was going to say that was Batwing, but it does look exactly like Jason's logo, and David's looks to be either a more traditional bat (with the curved wings) or a symbol more similar to batman beyond's logo.


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## Cromer (Nov 29, 2012)

We arguing Morrison and continuity? Seriously?
By the way, Aquaman continuously raises the question, just why the fuck can't Justice League be even in the same ballpark of quality?


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## Legend (Nov 29, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Those really just feel like passing mentions.
> 
> Jason working for Bruce really doesn't jive at all, especially with all the DOTF ongoings. It really only works if you believe that Inc takes place a few months after all that is going on recently in the other bat books and that the two of them will reconcile after this arc.


Jason's reveal was supposed to be Jason's 1st appearance after running away at the end of Dark Knight vs White Knight if the reboot didnt occur, but it was pushed back.

Bruce and Jason are supposed to talk in Batman #15 and then we have this: 



Petes12 said:


> jason's working with everyone pretty well in snyder's run and doesn't seem remotely revenge focused at all in red hood. his jason actually works really well for what they're doing right now.
> 
> kinda makes jason pointless though if he's not 'bad robin', just 'robin who is surly'


Jason is the black sheep now, i like him in the role, Dick is the 1st born the perfect child, Jason is the Black Sheep, Tim is the know it all, and Damian is the brat.



Platinum said:


> No.
> 
> It's been pretty established that Barbara, Dick and Damian either loathe him entirely or want nothing to do with him. Tim is the only one that gives him the time of day.
> 
> He's not really revenge focused, but he still isn't particularly fond of anyone and basically abandoned gotham to run with kori and roy in space and shit. The only difference is that he doesn't needlessly antagonize Bruce anymore.


Actually they got along in Batman and Robin: Battle of the Robins arc vs Terminus and his goons

Tim gets along with him, Dick doesnt hate him, he'd rather Jay be on the straight and narrow. Damian looks down upon jason but i think thats because they are more alike than both would like to admit.

Barb is different, i dont know what her problem with jay is i didnt like her characterization in that issue

Jay seems more level headed and less crazy now, but i dont think he was as crazy as he seemed he was more hurt. He wanted to abandon gotham and never come back. He has a team now and i think he likes it and has some sort of stability with isabella.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> What about Jason and Bruce has been mentioned in DOTF so far? You could say him not alerting jason was a red flag, but at the same time he might just not trust Jason when it comes to Joker in particular.
> 
> Overall I think the Jason / Batfam relationship has been significantly changed since flashpoint. Heck, in RH superman even says that Bats vouches for Jason.
> 
> ...


I dont think he alerted jason since i think jason was in space at the time. If he were anywhere on earth im sure he would get it since batwing got it

Jason and Joker just dont mix no matter what.

The only people Damian doesnt hate would be Bruce, Alfred and Dick.


Petes12 said:


> Damian loathes everyone.
> 
> Jason was brought in on court of the owls and on Joker's return, I dunno why you say he wasn't. He's actually being treated like part of the team, if anything it makes it seem like Inc takes place before all that.


I think it may have been before he left with the outlaws or after the court of the owls.


Platinum said:


> Tim was the one that contacted Jason, not Alfred or Bruce.  When he drops off Freeze Babs threatens to beat the shit out of him and toss him in Arkham if he returns to Gotham. Please tell me where the love is here . And Jason learned about the Jokers return from the Joker himself


Thats true


Platinum said:


> I've outright stated that it's obvious that Jason no longer feels the need to antagonize batman anymore. But he's still a criminal that kills people. It's also really clear that he's been out doing his own thing for quite some time now and personally I find it hard to reconcile that with him working for Batman as a super secret agent.
> 
> This is my own personal gripe. I acknowledge it's all continuity but it doesn't jive with me.


I dont recall jason killing anyone who didnt deserve it, hell Ollie and Diana kill from time to time, i dont see him as a criminal.


Oh and the JLD Constantine pages: I like his other stuff better.


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## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

Legend said:


> Actually they got along in Batman and Robin: Battle of the Robins arc vs Terminus and his goons
> 
> Tim gets along with him, Dick doesnt hate him, he'd rather Jay be on the straight and narrow. Damian looks down upon jason but i think thats because they are more alike than both would like to admit.



Dick put up with him because he only shot at people's feet when they teamed up. He still doesn't seem to want him around.



> I dont recall jason killing anyone who didnt deserve it, hell Ollie and Diana kill from time to time, i dont see him as a criminal.



Batman doesn't tolerate killing period. Wasn't he pretty pissed at them when they killed? 

And yeah that was the page I was talking about.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2012)

Platinum said:


> Batman doesn't tolerate killing period. Wasn't he pretty pissed at them when they killed?



I feel like Bruce has chilled out on this to some extent. He's gotta know GL's (and Hal at times) kill right?

Also, I think it's possible that because of his own perceived failures as a father he doesn't judge jason as harshly as he does others.


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## Slice (Nov 29, 2012)

In the combined universe they really take the no killing stance lightly and stretch it quite far.
And so they have to, that only really works in the Batman books.


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## Platinum (Nov 29, 2012)

I really like how Fialkov is subverting the typical vampire trope and having Andrew actually being tactical about who he turns.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 30, 2012)

Platinum said:


> I really like how Fialkov is subverting the typical vampire trope and having Andrew actually being tactical about who he turns.



I was smiling the whole way through that recruitment scene.

"So I have to be a vampire?"
"Fraid so"
"....Screw it"


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## The Pink Ninja (Dec 1, 2012)




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## Stringer (Dec 1, 2012)

I didn't like the art in this week's JLD, gladly Mikel is coming back next issue.


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## Level7N00b (Dec 4, 2012)

Damn, was Kate always that pale?


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## Tazmo (Dec 4, 2012)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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