# Joe Abercrombie (UK): Creator of The First Law universe - first review for BSC out!



## Segan (Oct 29, 2008)

*After reading his latest work, I felt I should try and bring a new favourite author of mine to the lot of you readers.*




Joe Abercrombie is an UK fantasy writer and author of _The First Law_ trilogy:


*Spoiler*: __ 



*"The blade itself incites to deeds of violence."* _Homer_

Logen Ninefingers, infamous barbarian, has finally run out of luck. Caught up in one feud too many, he's on the verge of becoming a dead barbarian, leaving nothing behind but some bad songs, a few dead friends, and a lot of happy enemies.

Nobleman, dashing officer, and paragon of selfishness, Captain Jezal dan Luthar has nothing more dangerous in mind than fleecing his friends as cards and dreaming of glory in the fencing circle. But war is brewing, and on the battlefields of the frozen North they fight by altogether bloodier rules.

Inquisitor Glokta, cripple turned torturer, would like nothing better than to see Jezal come home in a jar. But then Glokta hates everyone: cutting treason out of the Union one confession at a time leaves little room for friendships. His latest trail of corpses may lead him right to the rotten heart of government... if he can stay alive long enough to follow it.

Murderous conspiracies rise to the surface, old scores are ready to be settled, and the line between hero and villain is sharp enough to draw blood. Unpredictable, compelling, wickedly funny, and packed with unforgettable characters, The Blade Itself is fantasy with a real cutting edge.





*Spoiler*: __ 



*"We should forgive our enemies, but not before they are hanged."* _Heinrich Heine_

Superior Glokta has a problem. How do you defend a city surrounded by enemies and riddled with traitors, when your allies can by no means be trusted, and your predecessor vanished without a trace? It's enough to make a torturer want to run – if he could even walk without a stick.

Northmen have spilled over the border of Angland and are spreading fire and death across the frozen country. Crown Prince Ladisla is poised to drive them back and win undying glory. There is only one problem – he commands the worst-armed, worst-trained, worst-led army in the world.

And Bayaz, the First of the Magi, is leading a party of bold adventurers on a perilous mission through the ruins of the past. The most hated woman in the South, the most feared man in the North, and the most selfish boy in the Union make a strange alliance, but a deadly one. They might even stand a chance of saving mankind from the Eaters. If they didn't hate each other quite so much.

Ancient secrets will be uncovered. Bloody battles will be won and lost. Bitter enemies will be forgiven – but not before they are hanged.





*Spoiler*: __ 



*"Last Argument of Kings."* _Inscribed on his cannons by Louis XIV_

The end is coming.

Logen Ninefingers might only have one more fight in him – but it's going to be a big one. Battle rages across the North, the King of the Northmen still stands firm, and there's only one man who can stop him. His oldest friend, and his oldest enemy: it's time for the Bloody-Nine to come home.

With too many masters and too little time, Superior Glokta is fighting a different kind of war. A secret struggle in which no-one is safe, and no-one can be trusted. As his days with a sword are far behind him, it's fortunate that he's deadly with his remaining weapons: blackmail, threats, and torture.

Jezal dan Luthar has decided that winning glory is too painful an undertaking, and turned his back on soldering for a simple life with the woman he loves. But love can be painful too – and glory has a nasty habit of creeping up on a man when he least expects it.

The King of the Union lies on his deathbed, the peasants revolt, and the nobles scramble to steal his crown. No-one believes that the shadow of war is about to fall across the heart of the Union. Only the First of the Magi can save the world – but there are risks. There is no risk more terrible, than to break the First Law... 




His writing style is superb and quite gripping on the reader. The fighting scenes are also...well, superbly written. I recommend you all to give _The Blade Itself_ a go and see, whether you like it or not.

Quotes from our NF members:



Lord Yu said:


> I probably sound like a slobbering fool. But the more I read the more I like. The dialogue has bite, the characters flesh, and the fight scenes are gripping. Thanks for the recc.





Dream Brother said:


> I finally finished _The Blade Itself_. I have to say that it's an awesome book -- certainly a debut that is amongst the best in the fantasy genre. Its main strength is the sheer readability factor; it's very smart in terms of structure/pacing. The 'one character perspective per chapter' scheme is wonderfully executed (much like in Martin's work) because Abercrombie is very good when it comes to delving into the minds of his characters. Logen, Jezal and Glokta are all very strong and interesting creations, and they comfortably carry the tale on their shoulders. Not only that, but even the 'secondary' characters like Bayaz, West, Ferro and Ardee stand on their own as distinctive creations and grow as the story continues. The action scenes are also pretty damn powerful -- I haven't seen that level of pure energy and chaos since reading Stover's work.
> 
> Overall, I'm very impressed.





Dream Brother said:


> The second book is now finished.
> 
> Even better than the first. Damn. This guy can write. I didn't actually feel cheated at all -- what did you mean by that? If you're referring to the fact that:
> 
> ...





Dream Brother said:


> After just finishing the final book, I find myself agreeing on both points.
> 
> I must also thank Segan for creating this thread and making me curious enough to try the books out -- I haven't been that entertained in a _long_ time. I'm just crushed that I'm finished, now. The drug addiction comparison really is apt in this case.
> 
> ...





Batman said:


> Ha! Well I'll keep it short and sweet then.
> 
> My thoughts on Book 1:
> 
> ...





Tyrael said:


> Necro'd.
> 
> Halfway the second book and I am rather bloody impressed. Glockta, more than anyone else, really seems to have come into his own.


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## Segan (Oct 29, 2008)

Quotes from our NF members part 2:


Tyrael said:


> Finished the second book. My usual pedantic views:
> 
> At first going into this, memories of _The Blade Itself_ fresh in my mind I knew I was going to be in for a highly readable and entertaining book. There was worries I had, and unfortunately the start of the book looked as if my doubts were well placed. Nevertheless Abercrombie then remeinded me how many things he does very well and I was pulled in willingly. When it did, I can describe the experience with one word:
> 
> ...





Lord Yu said:


> Finally, finished it.





Lord Yu said:


> Further comments on Last Argument of Kings. It left me with that warm hollow feeling I get after finishing a good book. The amount of thoughts it gave me was delicious.


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## Segan (Oct 29, 2008)

Currently, Joe Abercrombie is working on a new book set in The First Law universe, and this time with a female lead character. The title is *Best Served Cold* and comes out June 2009 in the UK and July 2009 in the US.

*Best Served Cold cover*


*Best Served Cold copy*
*Spoiler*: __ 




*"Revenge is a dish best served cold."* _Pierre Choderlos de Laclos_

Springtime in Styria. And that means war.

There have been nineteen years of blood. The ruthless Grand Duke Orso is locked in a vicious struggle with the squabbling League of Eight, and between them they have bled the land white. While armies march, heads roll and cities burn, behind the scenes bankers, priests and older, darker powers play a deadly game to choose who will be king.

War may be hell but for Monza Murcatto, the Snake of Talins, the most feared and famous mercenary in Duke Orso's employ, it's a damn good way of making money too. Her victories have made her popular - a shade too popular for her employer's taste. Betrayed, thrown down a mountain and left for dead, Murcatto's reward is a broken body and a burning hunger for vengeance. Whatever the cost, seven men must die.

Her allies include Styria's least reliable drunkard, Styria's most treacherous poisoner, a mass-murderer obsessed with numbers and a Northman who just wants to do the right thing. Her enemies number the better half of the nation. And that's all before the most dangerous man in the world is dispatched to hunt her down and finish the job Duke Orso started...

Springtime in Styria. And that means revenge.



Since it will be a hardcover, the cover spans the length of the whole front and back.
It looks friggin' awesome 

There's even a map for this one, as you can see from the background of the cover. The map itself can be found here.

*Update 12th February 2009:* US cover of Best Served Cold


*Update 27th February 2009:* First review out!

*For further information, visit his homepage. He updates his blog regularly: *



Lord Yu said:


> I bought The Blade Itself but haven't had a chance to read it yet.(Thinking about picking it up after I'm done with Dune.)


Sounds like a plan. I heard you got plenty of books never read lying around, don't you?

Would be a shame, if you did the same with The Blade Itself.


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## Lord Yu (Oct 29, 2008)

It's not that bad really. I just buy much faster than I read. My store also has _Before They are Hanged _as well.


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## Segan (Oct 29, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> It's not that bad really. I just buy much faster than I read. My store also has _Before They are Hanged _as well.


That's cool.

I wasn't even halfway through the first one when I realized I would buy the rest of the books, no matter what. Hopefully the same will happen to you.


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## Garfield (Oct 29, 2008)

I recently saw hat my school library had gotten this so finally my wait is over 


(Yeah, no money no buying)


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## Segan (Oct 29, 2008)

What, this even got into a school library?


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## The Bloody Nine (Oct 29, 2008)

I've been pimping this ever since i got here and as you can see from my name im a fan!

I would say that the first book is easily the weakest of the three and its not that much better then decent. So bare that in mind. If you don't like the second book though then its probably not for you.


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## Lord Yu (Oct 29, 2008)

Way to kill my excitement. This better not turn into another Malazan.


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## Segan (Oct 30, 2008)

The Bloody Nine said:


> I've been pimping this ever since i got here and as you can see from my name im a fan!
> 
> I would say that the first book is easily the weakest of the three and its not that much better then decent. So bare that in mind. If you don't like the second book though then its probably not for you.


In relation to the whole trilogy, the first isn't the strongest, but still damn rock-solid.


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## Lord Yu (Oct 30, 2008)

Probably gonna read it tomorrow. I'm about to finish Dune.(Fucking love that book)


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## Segan (Oct 30, 2008)

I updated the first post. Now we have a banner instead of a simple link to Abercrombie's site.


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## Lord Yu (Oct 31, 2008)

I read the prologue and the first chapter. His style is really engrossing. I can tell I'm going to enjoy this book.


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## Segan (Oct 31, 2008)

Glad you're enjoying this. Let's spread the word!


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## Dream Brother (Oct 31, 2008)

> Way to kill my excitement. This better not turn into another Malazan



I'm afraid of that too.

Only one way to find out, though -- the next time I see it in the store, I'll pick it up.


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## Lord Yu (Oct 31, 2008)

Thankfully my fears were unfounded. His style reminds me of GRRM.


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## Segan (Oct 31, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> I'm afraid of that too.
> 
> Only one way to find out, though -- the next time I see it in the store, I'll pick it up.


Bloody-Nine was a bit careless in posting what he did, because he saw it from a standpoint of the whole trilogy, I suppose.

But every book in itself is hard to put away once you start reading. At least it had that effect on me.


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## Lord Yu (Oct 31, 2008)

From the beautiful readability I'm guessing this is like gold vs platinum.


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## Segan (Oct 31, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> From the beautiful readability I'm guessing this is like gold vs platinum.


^^

Yes, something like that.


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## The Bloody Nine (Nov 1, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> From the beautiful readability I'm guessing this is like gold vs platinum.



Exactly. Segan was right i was a bit careless. What i meant was the first (at least in my opinion) gets a 7.5/10 the second gets a 9/10  and the last one gets a flawless 10.

Its far far far away from Malazan. The books get obviously better as the series goes along and the characterisation, plot and pacing are miles better. Abercrombie does battles even better too.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 1, 2008)

Is the first book really integral to the trilogy?

Because I found only two of them and they happened to be the second and third ones.


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## Segan (Nov 1, 2008)

Speaking of which, I was surfing through Abercrombie's homepage and I came across the pictures you got as your avatar.

Black Dow does look his part, there.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> Is the first book really integral to the trilogy?
> 
> Because I found only two of them and they happened to be the second and third ones.


Very integral. It's not a trilogy for no reason.


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## The Bloody Nine (Nov 1, 2008)

Segan said:


> Speaking of which, I was surfing through Abercrombie's homepage and I came across the pictures you got as your avatar.
> 
> Black Dow does look his part, there.



:rofl:rofl:rofl

Actually the artist seems to think its Logen. Though Abercrombie says it looks a lot more like what he imagined Three Tree's to look like; apparently the face just isn't scarred enough.

I got it from  by the way.


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## Segan (Nov 1, 2008)

How weird. Abercrombie linked to this site:


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## Lord Yu (Nov 1, 2008)

Welp I got 8 bucks in my wallet. The next book should be $6.98. I guess I know where I'm blowing my money.


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## Segan (Nov 1, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> Welp I got 8 bucks in my wallet. The next book should be $6.98. I guess I know where I'm blowing my money.


You better do


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## Lord Yu (Nov 1, 2008)

I probably sound like a slobbering fool. But the more I read the more I like. The dialogue has bite, the characters flesh, and the fight scenes are gripping. Though some things are a tad predictable.(I'm guessing these are intentional though. I'm still pretty early in the book.) Thanks for the recc.


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## Segan (Nov 1, 2008)

Perfect. Now check my first post to find your own quote.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 5, 2008)

Finished the first book. It had this feeling of a really long prologue. It was damn good of course but...Perhaps that's what first books are for anyway. The last fight scenes were fucking epic. So brutally badass. Some of the best action scenes I ever read.


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## Segan (Nov 5, 2008)

All right, then go on and read Before They Are Hanged.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 5, 2008)

Already read the first chapter. Can't make a judgment yet, but with the way things were at the end of The Blade Itself. I'm expecting epic beyond epic.


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## Segan (Nov 5, 2008)

Oh, you will love it.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 5, 2008)

Off to a good start it is.


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## Segan (Nov 9, 2008)

Can't have this drowned into the Literature nirvana. Read the first post for info and get the books already *shouting to all who might listen*


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## Yulwei (Nov 9, 2008)

I've got questions which I hope will spark some discussion about the end of LAOK


*Spoiler*: __ 



1. Am I to assume that BlackDow is now King of the Northman and what does this mean for Dogman
2. Has Ferro been powered up the same way as Tolomei was and what do people think of her chances of deal with Uthman and Khalul


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## Lord Yu (Nov 9, 2008)

I don't even have that book yet.


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## Yulwei (Nov 9, 2008)

Mores the pity


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## Segan (Nov 10, 2008)

Misery D Spare said:


> I've got questions which I hope will spark some discussion about the end of LAOK
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



1. Nah, Black Dow's a lone wolf. He just didn't want a worse king than Bethod.
2. Did Tolomei even have demonblood? Either way, Ferro certainly got a powerup, she fucking squatted an Eater like it was nothing. Uthman might be in her reach, if she's acting smart, but Khalul is completely different. He's a magus like Bayaz.




It's a closed trilogy and as far as I understand, Abercrombie has no plans of continuing this particular story. Though, there's a chance that some main characters from the trilogy will re-appear in later books.
Some minor characters are already going to be in the next book Best Served Cold.


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## The Bloody Nine (Nov 10, 2008)

Major spoilers for book three.


*Spoiler*: __ 





Misery D Spare said:


> 1. Am I to assume that BlackDow is now King of the Northman and what does this mean for Dogman



I think so. Dow is an evil fucker but he would make a far better King then Logen or Bethod would, i think he and the rest of the north just want a break from war, if only for a little while. Either way - if Logen lives then Dow won't be king of anything for very long.



Misery D Spare said:


> 2. Has Ferro been powered up the same way as Tolomei was and what do people think of her chances of deal with Uthman and Khalul



I think she has and like segan said - while Uthman would be no problem Khalul is on the same level as Bayaz and that's just a level above.




Joe said in this thread, that Best Served Cold will feature Shivers & Costa.


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## Segan (Nov 10, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



And Vitari will be featured in Best Served Cold as well.


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## Yulwei (Nov 10, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I think we should take into account the fact that the Eater she beat had just recieved a major ass kicking from a Seed boosted Bayaz. Fact is he didn't bother using the art against Ferro which we know he was capable of


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## Segan (Nov 13, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



But the Eater probably still had inhuman strength when facing Ferro. We are only talking about a physical upgrade here.


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## Yulwei (Nov 13, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Going by the fact that she shares several traits with Tolomei there's no reason to assume she can't use the Art or take faces but I don't see Ferro being particularly inclined to do either of these things. Still considering that all of Bayaz's spells failed to even phase Tolomei and he ended up having to rely on the Divider to do her any real damage her power up is considerable. I assume any of the Master Maker's works would do as Tolomei seemed hesitant to chance Yulwei's web of spinning swords


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## Segan (Nov 13, 2008)

Hmm...I gotta reread those fights again. I don't remember too much after having read several other books since then.


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## Yulwei (Nov 13, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



If my recollection is correct here's what happened[ not in this order]:
- Tolomei as Quai requests the Seed from Ferro
- Bayaz uses some spell to crush her and fling her across the room. She's unfazed
- Later he sets her alight and she's fine except for being naked and hairless
- Ferro punches her twice and breaks both her hands in the attempt
- Yulwei comes up from collecting the swords and levitates them around himself in a spinning disc which prevents Tolomei from nearing him
- Bayaz uses the Divider and cuts off Tolomei's arm
- Ferro flees and Bayaz brings some masonry crushing on top of Tolomei and Yulwei trapping both [temporarily or otherwise]. He then locks the tower and leaves


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## Segan (Nov 20, 2008)

*Time for an update!*

Since it will be a hardcover, the cover spans the length of the whole front and back.
It looks friggin' awesome 

Check out his Blog. He's updating his site regularly.


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## Segan (Nov 20, 2008)

Joe also went through the efforts to get a really cool map for his newest book.

Map of Styria (beware, huge and high-resolution image)


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## Lord Yu (Nov 20, 2008)

So we get a map this time.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 20, 2008)

I like the little tagline taken from Homer, I might check it out if this semester ever ends...


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## Segan (Nov 21, 2008)

Another update. This time, the title got a shining makeover:


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## Dream Brother (Nov 21, 2008)

I've read a very little bit of it, so here are my thoughts so far:

- Beautiful cover. Very classy job, especially considering how terrible a lot of cover art is for other fantasy books.

- I think the opening (with Logen) was a misstep. It wasn't terrible, but it had me rolling my eyes at a few points. I understand that opening with immediate danger is a common tactic for hooking the reader, but I really didn't care much about the fight. A few of the clich? elements in this segment also grated a little. It certainly wasn't enough to put me off the book, of course, but he could have made it a lot better. Which brings me on to my next point...

- The chapter with Glokta (straight after the opening) was a massive jump in quality. When I read this chapter I felt instantly relieved -- _this_ was what I had been expecting. The introduction of a genuinely interesting character, some lovely moments of dialogue and intrigue, and just great all around. I honestly wonder why on earth the book didn't start with _this_ chapter -- it would have instantly hooked me. The only possible excuse is that the opening is essential to the heart of the plot -- and even then, that doesn't mean it had to be right at the very beginning. Anyway, Glokta (and his escapades) look promising.

- Abercrombie's style is fairly good. A little too much telling instead of showing, but he makes up for it with an unpretentious, simple approach and a wisely snappy pace.

I'm gonna go and read some more of it. It certainly has potential so far.


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## Segan (Nov 21, 2008)

Don't worry, the fight scenes get much better afterwards. Logen shows some unsettling depths later on, which is in stark contrast to his character we see in glimpses of his past.

Abercrombie is more a remolder than an innovative writer. I personally find the characterization of his cast to be his strongest trait in the series, due to the point-of-view style.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 21, 2008)

Glokta never disappoints.


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## The Bloody Nine (Nov 21, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> The only possible excuse is that the opening is essential to the heart of the plot --



While not quite essential it most definitely serves a purpose, thats the thing about Abercrombie - he covers all his bases.

Also, don't sleep on Logen Ninefingers there is some very good reasons why i have taken his name, but they will become apparent later. Especially in the third book.

Though to be honest with you the username i wanted at first was in fact Glokta. He has to be the greatest anti-hero in all of fiction. Some other bastard had taken his name though.



Lord Yu said:


> Glokta never disappoints.



I was wondering actually - where are you in the trilogy ?


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## Dream Brother (Nov 21, 2008)

I've been reading on, and I'm definitely more pleased with the depiction of Logen now. The book opening seemed like light adventure fluff, but now Abercrombie is actually exploring the character well, and I'm enjoying it. 

Just started the chapter on 'Jezal'.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm rounding near the end of Before They Are Hanged. I've been a little lazy in my reading-well everything-lately.


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## Segan (Nov 22, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> I've been reading on, and I'm definitely more pleased with the depiction of Logen now. The book opening seemed like light adventure fluff, but now Abercrombie is actually exploring the character well, and I'm enjoying it.
> 
> Just started the chapter on 'Jezal'.


Jezal is my least favourite of the three main characters. Narcism was never of much interest to me.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 22, 2008)

He'd be my least as well.


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## The Bloody Nine (Nov 22, 2008)

Strange, for my Ferro is by far the weakest character in the series.


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## Dream Brother (Nov 22, 2008)

Aw, I like Jezal so far. Pompous bastards are entertaining. 

I certainly prefer Abercrombie to Erikson and Bakker. I'll see if I still feel that way when I finish.


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## Segan (Nov 22, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> Aw, I like Jezal so far. Pompous bastards are entertaining.
> 
> I certainly prefer Abercrombie to Erikson and Bakker. I'll see if I still feel that way when I finish.


Finish? Did you get all three books?


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## Dream Brother (Nov 22, 2008)

Oh no, I meant 'finish' in terms of the _first_ book -- I'm still reading it and I'm only around a quarter way through so far. It just keeps getting better; you can almost see how Abercrombie gradually gains confidence and energy as the tale goes on.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 22, 2008)

Finished Before They Are Hanged. Quite an ending.


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## Segan (Nov 23, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> Finished Before They Are Hanged. Quite an ending.


Makes you feel a bit cheated, doesn't it?



Dream Brother said:


> Oh no, I meant 'finish' in terms of the _first_ book -- I'm still reading it and I'm only around a quarter way through so far. It just keeps getting better; you can almost see how Abercrombie gradually gains confidence and energy as the tale goes on.


Yeah.

Did you know that Glokta's character was born from a period, when Abercrombie had back pain? His world view became a somewhat dark and cynical one or something along those lines.


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## Dream Brother (Nov 26, 2008)

I finally finished _The Blade Itself_. I have to say that it's an awesome book -- certainly a debut that is amongst the best in the fantasy genre. Its main strength is the sheer readability factor; it's very smart in terms of structure/pacing. The 'one character perspective per chapter' scheme is wonderfully executed (much like in Martin's work) because Abercrombie is very good when it comes to delving into the minds of his characters. Logen, Jezal and Glokta are all very strong and interesting creations, and they comfortably carry the tale on their shoulders. Not only that, but even the 'secondary' characters like Bayaz, West, Ferro and Ardee stand on their own as distinctive creations and grow as the story continues. The action scenes are also pretty damn powerful -- I haven't seen that level of pure energy and chaos since reading Stover's work. 

Overall, I'm very impressed.



> Did you know that Glokta's character was born from a period, when Abercrombie had back pain? His world view became a somewhat dark and cynical one or something along those lines.



That's interesting -- it definitely makes sense, too. The Glokta chapters are highly believable.


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## Segan (Nov 26, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> I finally finished _The Blade Itself_. I have to say that it's an awesome book -- certainly a debut that is amongst the best in the fantasy genre. Its main strength is the sheer readability factor; it's very smart in terms of structure/pacing. The 'one character perspective per chapter' scheme is wonderfully executed (much like in Martin's work) because Abercrombie is very good when it comes to delving into the minds of his characters. Logen, Jezal and Glokta are all very strong and interesting creations, and they comfortably carry the tale on their shoulders. Not only that, but even the 'secondary' characters like Bayaz, West, Ferro and Ardee stand on their own as distinctive creations and grow as the story continues. The action scenes are also pretty damn powerful -- I haven't seen that level of pure energy and chaos since reading Stover's work.
> 
> Overall, I'm very impressed.


I'm very pleased to hear that. I will shamelessly use your quote for my OP. 



> That's interesting -- it definitely makes sense, too. The Glokta chapters are highly believable.


Yeah, they are. When you have to deal with pain every day, your empathy with others' pain will decrease dramatically and occasional schadenfreude becomes a luxury.


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## The Bloody Nine (Nov 26, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> Overall, I'm very impressed.



Now bare in mind that the Blade itself is almost universally considered to be the weakest book in the trillogy. 

You have good times ahead of you methinks.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 26, 2008)

Now if Last Argument Of Kings would come to my bookstore.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 26, 2008)

Can't you order it?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 26, 2008)

By the way, I think I'll be getting the first book soon.


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## Lord Yu (Nov 26, 2008)

Probably, though my bookstore is a used one.


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## Dream Brother (Nov 26, 2008)

*Itching to buy the next book now*

I may read _The Name of the Wind_ first though -- purely because I already have it here. Hmm.


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## Segan (Nov 27, 2008)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> By the way, I think I'll be getting the first book soon.


Have fun with it.



Dream Brother said:


> *Itching to buy the next book now*
> 
> I may read _The Name of the Wind_ first though -- purely because I already have it here. Hmm.


A word of advice: Don't interrupt a trilogy, when all three books are available.

A word of *advice*


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## Dream Brother (Nov 28, 2008)

Haha, I went and got _Before They Are Hanged_ today. 

(The last copy in the store, hell yeah.)

I've already started it -- lovely so far.


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## Segan (Nov 28, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> Haha, I went and got _Before They Are Hanged_ today.
> 
> (The last copy in the store, hell yeah.)
> 
> I've already started it -- lovely so far.


I'll be curious to how you react to the conclusion of the journey of our lovely quintett. You will feel cheated, one way or another, that's for sure.


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## Dream Brother (Dec 1, 2008)

The second book is now finished.

Even better than the first. Damn. This guy can write. I didn't actually feel cheated at all -- what did you mean by that? If you're referring to the fact that:


*Spoiler*: __ 



they ended up only getting a useless stone




I didn't mind that at all. In fact I really liked that touch -- it put a nice twist on things, and it was once again an example of Abercrombie unmercifully playing with the sort of expectations that his readers have. I think the more important reason why I didn't feel cheated is the fact that I wasn't really interested in their goal or what they were trying to do. I was only interested in how the characters developed, and how their interactions/relationships with one another changed over time. I certainly wasn't disappointed in that area. 

West continues to grow more awesome. Glokta was badass from the first chapter of the first book, and this trend only continues here. As for Logen...well, I finally appreciate how sweet The Bloody Nine's username is. I love Jezal -- he's always entertaining, but more importantly, he's showing signs of maturity at last. I could have done with more Ardee, but I have a feeling that she'll be playing a bigger role in the final book.

Speaking of that...I really need to read that final book. This series is like a drug addiction, eesh.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Dec 2, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> Glokta was badass from the first chapter of the first book, and this trend only continues here. As for Logen...well, I finally appreciate how sweet The Bloody Nine's username is.



Nope, you really haven't. Abercrombie's genius with Logen and Bayaz (but especially Logen) only becomes truly apparent in the third book. 

Also Glokta somehow, from somewhere, mages to get EVEN MORE badass. I have yet to see an anti-hero that comes close to him.


----------



## Segan (Dec 2, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> The second book is now finished.
> 
> Even better than the first. Damn. This guy can write. I didn't actually feel cheated at all -- what did you mean by that? If you're referring to the fact that:
> 
> ...


I'm real glad to hear that. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



I've seen some reviews that disliked the book exactly because of this useless stone and, even more so, the whole "useless journey".





> West continues to grow more awesome. Glokta was badass from the first chapter of the first book, and this trend only continues here. As for Logen...well, I finally appreciate how sweet The Bloody Nine's username is.


Heh, I'm sure you will appreciate Logen's character a little more, once you get into the final book. He's got a big role of his own to play.


> I love Jezal -- he's always entertaining, but more importantly, he's showing signs of maturity at last.


It will be interesting to know your opinion of Jezal, after you finished the third book.


> I could have done with more Ardee, but I have a feeling that she'll be playing a bigger role in the final book.


Somewhat...

You biggest surprise, however, will be...wait, I think I better not spoil that. There are too many surprises, anyway.


> Speaking of that...I really need to read that final book. This series is like a drug addiction, eesh.


Ah, mission complete!


----------



## Yulwei (Dec 2, 2008)

The Bloody Nine said:


> Though to be honest with you the username i wanted at first was in fact Glokta. He has to be the greatest anti-hero in all of fiction. Some other bastard had taken his name though.



Twas I though I've since relinquished it

As for weakest character in the book that would have gone to Jezel before his reform. After that it was definately Ferro several things could have saved her :

*Spoiler*: __ 



a) she could have stuck with Logen
b) she could have shown Yulwei a bit more respect and heeded his words
c) after witnessing Bayaz's attrocities performed in the name of revenge she could have foresaken it.



Since she not only stuck with revenge but actually became even more inhuman than she was before I'd say she eneded up being the weakest character


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## The Bloody Nine (Dec 2, 2008)

A couple of months ago i would have hated your blasé guts but i have since decided The Bloody Nine is a cooler name. Thanks!

As for Ferro - in my opinion she was always the weakest character in the book. In fact she was almost paper thin. If it wasn't for that pant-wettingly funny cave scene with Logen in the second book then we would probably have been better of with her cut out entirely.

Though she will probably be extremely important in the future.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 2, 2008)

Without Ferro it would have been a sausage fest.


----------



## Yulwei (Dec 3, 2008)

Basically they needed someone with blood from the otherside so we got Ferro who reduced the sausagefest nature of the journey and highlighted the futility of revenge which was Logen's theme. I liked her probably because she's not only a tough woman but she's dark skinned which I don't encounter that much in my readings. She certainly wasn't my favourate but she had a spot in that part of my brain that deals with emotions and whatnot.


----------



## Segan (Dec 3, 2008)

You guys are so mean :/

Ferro is actually one of my favorites, along with Logen and Vitari. The women definitely could have used more depth, but their concept was likeable enough for me. Fortunately, Vitari will play a more important role in the next book, Best Served Cold.


----------



## Yulwei (Dec 3, 2008)

The only woman who was adequately developed was Ardee. I suppose Jezel's wife was somewhat interesting as well but she was no Ardee


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## Dream Brother (Dec 3, 2008)

> Nope, you really haven't. Abercrombie's genius with Logen and Bayaz (but especially Logen) only becomes truly apparent in the third book.
> 
> Also Glokta somehow, from somewhere, mages to get EVEN MORE badass. I have yet to see an anti-hero that comes close to him.



After just finishing the final book, I find myself agreeing on both points.

I must also thank Segan for creating this thread and making me curious enough to try the books out -- I haven't been that entertained in a _long_ time. I'm just crushed that I'm finished, now. The drug addiction comparison really is apt in this case. 

Abercrombie has a deftness with characters to match Martin, a powerful brutality in fight scenes to equal Stover and the kind of smart plotting and humour that reminds me of Lynch. Comparing him to other fantasy authors does him a disservice, though, because (overall) he has a distinctive style of his own, and it works brilliantly. I especially like the exploration of morality -- granted, moral ambiguity has become a staple of the genre at present, but Abercrombie seems to really explore it in more depth than is usual. I'm not sure about other readers, but when I was reading the final book I really wondered who was in the right and who was in the wrong -- or even if there was such a thing as right or wrong. This is an unflinching foray into the human condition; it's admirably honest. Then you have the gleeful toying with the expectations of his readers...turning stereotypes upside down, etc. There are no convenient or contrived moments that I could spot -- in fact, many of the most powerful moments were (in hindsight) actually set up from the very first book. The pacing is exemplary. Characters are true to themselves; everything flows naturally and smoothly, and you rarely feel the hand of the author behind it all. That's one of the marks of the very best writing.

The final segment with Logen was, I must say, a very fitting way to conclude it all. 

The only problem?

I wanted _more_, damnit. Surely that can't be the end? I see so many things left open to further exploration...

Either way, I'm now a big fan.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 3, 2008)

I still await the day I see the final book.


----------



## Segan (Dec 4, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> After just finishing the final book, I find myself agreeing on both points.
> 
> I must also thank Segan for creating this thread and making me curious enough to try the books out -- I haven't been that entertained in a _long_ time. I'm just crushed that I'm finished, now. The drug addiction comparison really is apt in this case.


You're welcome.



> Abercrombie has a deftness with characters to match Martin, a powerful brutality in fight scenes to equal Stover and the kind of smart plotting and humour that reminds me of Lynch. Comparing him to other fantasy authors does him a disservice, though, because (overall) he has a distinctive style of his own, and it works brilliantly. I especially like the exploration of morality -- granted, moral ambiguity has become a staple of the genre at present, but Abercrombie seems to really explore it in more depth than is usual. I'm not sure about other readers, but when I was reading the final book I really wondered who was in the right and who was in the wrong -- or even if there was such a thing as right or wrong. This is an unflinching foray into the human condition; it's admirably honest. Then you have the gleeful toying with the expectations of his readers...turning stereotypes upside down, etc. There are no convenient or contrived moments that I could spot -- in fact, many of the most powerful moments were (in hindsight) actually set up from the very first book. The pacing is exemplary. Characters are true to themselves; everything flows naturally and smoothly, and you rarely feel the hand of the author behind it all. That's one of the marks of the very best writing.


Abercrombie had the desire to write a fantasy for adults. He confirmed several times, that he took to heart an advice of his mother in particular: _Always be honest_.

As you can see, it worked out well. Let me see if I find some actual quotes from him in that regard, on his blog. You should check it out, too. You will like it.

Edit:  Search for Lizzieanne and read from there.


> The final segment with Logen was, I must say, a very fitting way to conclude it all.
> 
> The only problem?
> 
> ...


I felt the same way. Actually, I still feel that way.

I had a short e-mail exchange with Abercrombie himself, and I asked if Logen and Ferro would be featured in some of his later works.

His answer?

_"Nothing planned in that direction, but you never know."_

Luckily, Vitari is apparently featured in his next book.


On another note, can you give me the second post of this thread? I wanna use it for more quotes and stuff, that might follow. The first post is close to its character limits.


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## The Bloody Nine (Dec 4, 2008)

Wow that was pretty fast. Glad to see you enjoyed it. Once Yu finally finishes we will be five-fans strong ! 

Anyhow someone in another thread perfectly described exactly why i was such a major fan of Logen and Abercrombie.

Seriously Major Spoilers follow;

*Spoiler*: __ 




Logen Ninefingers was the highlight of these books for me. Joe did a fantastic job with this character. At first glance he is the cliched Northern Barbarian Berserker type we've read about a thousand times before. But wait!- he's actually a sensitive, thoughtful guy with a nice, fatherly side to him. And thats the beauty of this character. For the first two books I really liked this guy, and I was willing to forgive him for his past transgressions. Yet in the third book, we start to hear from other characters who know the old Logen, we start to witness unforgivable transgressions (Tul, Crummock's Kid, almost the Dogman)...and when I finally realized that he was in fact, truly an "Evil Fucker" in the words of Dow, now that was an amazing trick that Abercrombie pulled off with my perceptions. And yet... I still like Logen. That is brilliant.




And on that note



Segan said:


> Her enemies number the better half of the nation. And that's all before the most dangerous man in the world is dispatched to hunt her down and finish the job Duke Orso started...



Who ?

I'm betting the youngest of the demon brothers. Only guy with more juice then Bayaz and Khalul.  That is if he really is the most dangerous man in the world.


----------



## Dream Brother (Dec 4, 2008)

Segan said:


> Edit:  Search for Lizzieanne and read from there.



Very interesting link.

I particularly liked this note:



> My feeling was that, following on from Tolkien?s lead, epic fantasy often becomes focused on the creation of an immensely detailed world, with story and character sometimes suffering, or at least becoming slow paced as a result. Fantasy is too often told in huge wide shots, if you like, with great sweeps of richly realized world, but with the characters tiny and intangible little figures in the distance. I wanted my books to be all about characters, and the world to be just the backdrop. The sets against which the action takes place. Sets that stand up to some scrutiny, that look convincing, perhaps. Not shoddy sets. But firmly in the background.



I completely agree with him. I've been saying this for friggin' ages. 



> I had a short e-mail exchange with Abercrombie himself, and I asked if Logen and Ferro would be featured in some of his later works.
> 
> His answer?
> 
> _"Nothing planned in that direction, but you never know."_



Hopefully one day...



> On another note, can you give me the second post of this thread? I wanna use it for more quotes and stuff, that might follow. The first post is close to its character limits.



I tried, but I came out with...er...a bit of a mixed result. I seem to have made Yu's first post vanish (apologies Yu) but at least you now have your space. You can just edit the second post, as it belongs to you.

The Bloody Nine:

Yeah, I agree with that poster. It was a very neat trick to pull, and it really gave more power to Logen's character. I also like the fleshing out of Mr Bayaz.


----------



## Segan (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks, Dream Brother.

And sorry, Yu. But at least you will live on as a quote in my second post. 



The Bloody Nine said:


> And on that note
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wouldn't take the copy too literally. After all, it wasn't Abercrombie's idea, but rather his publisher's people put it together. They are the ones who are going to do marketing for his works.

It's the same what happens with Best Served Cold as well.


----------



## Segan (Dec 7, 2008)

His reviews of reviews of his works often are quite amusing. Check out the latest entry.


----------



## Dream Brother (Dec 7, 2008)

> It's a fucking ace fucking ending, actually, I'll have you know! I get, like, loads of emails saying how ace it is! Maybe it's just TOO ACE FOR YOU!



Hahaha. His blog is pretty cool -- he always has entertaining stuff to say.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 7, 2008)

Probably won't be able to afford the last book for awhile. *Strokes his poor wallet*

Well I could probably afford it if I cracked open my snoopy bank and safe. But the real problem is broaching the subject of going to Barnes and Nobles to mom. Don't want her to feel she has to blow more money on silly ol me.


----------



## Crowe (Dec 8, 2008)

^ Could send you it in html version :}

I finished the last book a four to five days ago and I really enjoyed it. It was a nice book a bit too fast paced maybe, I'd rather see it as long and as thick as the Malazan series. One thing that disappointed me is 

*Spoiler*: __ 



BAYAZ. WHY THE FUCK DID HE NOT DIE!? I do understand this whole thing about "not all story's have a nice ending" but the way it ended Adua surviving and being rescued by that lesbo princess father/army, it all pointed towards one of those happy endings. I hate Bayaz ;__; 




Which other fantasy series should I pick up? 
Read:
Asoif
Mezla
David Eddings <->
The Black Company (Glen Cook)
The Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone
WoT

The ones I recall, most of them I read this year.


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## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

Do it. I'm fucking dry in the money department and I'm willing to compromise this once as I'll probably be dry for months. If it were as thick and overindulgent as Malazan I would have murdered my mother.


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## Segan (Dec 8, 2008)

Lord Yu said:


> Do it. I'm fucking dry in the money department and I'm willing to compromise this once as I'll probably be dry for months. *If it were as thick and overindulgent as Malazan I would have murdered my mother.*


Wait...!

Should I be glad that I'm not too well versed in English language that I'm not sure if I understood this last phrase?


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## The Bloody Nine (Dec 8, 2008)

mister. pek said:


> ^ Could send you it in html version :}



You read all of that on screen ?

Just thinking about that many hours in front of the monitor is enough to make my eyes twitch out of their sockets. 

Anyhow - FIVE FANS STRONG! 
Our cult grows ever stronger. 

As for that evil bastard i have never wanted anyone to die a gruesome agonizing death like i did for him. Though to be be fair if he had died then there would be no balance in their world. Which  brings me nicely onto the recs;

The only major work you haven't read yet is The Prince of Nothing Trillogy by R. Scott Bakker. It is definitely not for everyone - your enjoyment of these books will probably be proportional to how much you enjoy philosophy lectures. Seriously! The action/plot is excellent if and when you can find it in and among all the internal monologues and dissertations on the human condition. Also the world is pretty dark - certainly a lot darker than ASoIaF so be wary of that. Oh, and it features Kellus Anasurimbor - who is the runner up for character i would most like to see die a gruesome and agonizing death, but he's only the runner up because he might actually be the messiah. He is certainly as big an "evil fucker" as anyone you will ever see.


You could also try the Mistborn Trillogy by Brandon Sanderson - he is the guy that will finish the Wheel of time. While i have only read the first book, i hear from some pretty reliable sources that it might have the best ending to a trillogy ever. It certainly has an interesting premise - imagine if all the prophecies where lies and the Dark Lord™ won at the end of the day ?


----------



## Segan (Dec 8, 2008)

The Bloody Nine said:


> The only major work you haven't read yet is The Prince of Nothing Trillogy by R. Scott Bakker. It is definitely not for everyone - your enjoyment of these books will probably be proportional to how much you enjoy philosophy lectures. Seriously! The action/plot is excellent if and when you can find it in and among all the internal monologues and dissertations on the human condition. Also the world is pretty dark - certainly a lot darker than ASoIaF so be wary of that. *Oh, and it features Kellus Anasurimbor - who is the runner up for character i would most like to see die a gruesome and agonizing death*, but he's only the runner up because he might actually be the messiah. He is certainly as big an "evil fucker" as anyone you will ever see.


I will fucking kill you in such a fucking gruesome way you fucking will wish you had never said that fucking outrageous thing.

Anas?rimbor Kellhus is one of the most awesome characters I've encountered in my personal literature adventures. 

On another note: while I don't know many different monks in literature, I feel that the D?nyain that Bakker created are the most awesome monks ever created.


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## The Bloody Nine (Dec 8, 2008)

mister. pek said:


> *The Bloody Nine*: I recognize The Prince of Nothing a lot. Probably the book I dropped for Toll The Hounds this summer. Does it start with two "men" meeting up in a snowy area, one mourning his dead wife and living in self pity?



Nahh i think thats the Wheel of Time. I remeber PoN has an awesome beginning - either the end of the First Apoccalypse or Kellus leaving his fortress and falling unconscious the second he sees the forest.  



mister. pek said:


> P.S I read all the series in my list, besides the latest books of ASoIF / Mezla and Wheel of Time, on the monitor. I enjoy reading them on the monitor to be honest, rather scroll down then keep turning pages and I rather sit still or lay in bed in a certain position instead of having to roll over to try to get the perfect position to read a book :}



I don't know about you but trying to read so many words on a screen would kill my eyes. Honsetly just the thought of it is making me slightly queezy. 



Segan said:


> I will fucking kill you in such a fucking gruesome way you fucking will wish you had never said that fucking outrageous thing.
> 
> Anas?rimbor Kellhus is one of the most awesome characters I've encountered in my personal literature adventures.





Oh there is no doubt Kellus is awesome, but that's the problem; he is just so fucking awesome its just not fair.

Do you know what they call Kellus on the message boards - The Jesus Ninja. Honestly. One part messiah, one part one-man wrecking crew. Its like dropping Doctor Doom or Emperor Joker in ASoIaF - its utterly evil.


Oh and is it just me or are we the only thread getting snowflakes ? Mod love ?


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## Segan (Dec 8, 2008)

The Bloody Nine said:


> Nahh i think thats the Wheel of Time. I remeber PoN has an awesome beginning - either the end of the First Apoccalypse or Kellus leaving his fortress and falling unconscious the second he sees the forest.


Nah, what pek described is actually part of the PoN beginning.



> I don't know about you but trying to read so many words on a screen would kill my eyes. Honsetly just the thought of it is making me slightly queezy.


Dunno about that, I'm just conventional and prefer to have real books in my hands.



>






> Oh there is no doubt Kellus is awesome, but that's the problem; he is just so fucking awesome its just not fair.
> 
> Do you know what they call Kellus on the message boards - The Jesus Ninja. Honestly. One part messiah, one part one-man wrecking crew. Its like dropping Doctor Doom or Emperor Joker in ASoIaF - its utterly evil.


Ninja? *NINJA? *Why, of all things, a ninja? He's a monk, for fuck's sake. He's much closer to a Dungeon & Dragon high-level monk than he's to any ninja. Actually, I think he would easily pass for a DnD monk.

But ninja?



> Oh and is it just me or are we the only thread getting snowflakes ? Mod love ?


Been getting that, too. Might be some kind of ad if you stare long enough at it.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 8, 2008)

Every time pek posts a thread gets snowflakes.


----------



## Crowe (Dec 8, 2008)

Every page I post in.


The Bloody Nine said:


> Nahh i think thats the Wheel of Time. I remeber PoN has an awesome beginning - either the end of the First Apoccalypse or Kellus leaving his fortress and falling unconscious the second he sees the forest.


Wheel of Time starts in a small farm and them celebrating some special day. I was actually correct, it kind of starts with him walking in the forest but he later gets taken care by a trapper.


*Spoiler*: _From first book_ 



?I had no choice but to leave Atrithau,? Leweth admitted, speaking yet again of his dead wife.

  Kellhus smiled sorrowfully. He gauged the subtle interplay of muscles beneath the man?s expression. _He pretends to mourn in order to secure my pity_.

  ?Atrithau reminded you of her absence.?? _This is the lie he tells himself_.
  Leweth nodded, his eyes at once tear-filled and expectant. 

  ?Atrithau seemed a tomb after she died. One morning they called the muster for the militia to man the walls, and I remember staring off to the north. The forests seemed to? beckon me somehow. The terror of my childhood had become a sanctuary! Everyone in the city, even my brothers and my compatriots in the district cohort, seemed to secretly exult in her death?in my misery! I had to? I was _forced_ to??_ Avenge yourself._

  Leweth looked down to the fire. ?Flee,? he said.
_Why does he deceive himself in this way?_






> I don't know about you but trying to read so many words on a screen would kill my eyes. Honsetly just the thought of it is making me slightly queezy.


Haha. I'm just taking "computer geek" to the next level I guess.


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## Dream Brother (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm not a big Bakker fan, really -- in terms of my favourite characters, I would take Glokta over Kellhus a thousand times out of a thousand.

I was actually thinking about how I would rank the current big authors in fantasy, in terms of how much I personally enjoy/respect their work. To give it a shot:

1) Martin
2) Abercrombie
3) Hobb 
4) Stover (Not a 'big author', but his writing quality is up there.)
5) Lynch

China Miéville would _easily_ get a place on the list, but I've only read one of his books -- _Perdido Street Station_, which was amazing -- and so it would be unfair of me to rank him alongside the others when I haven't seen how consistent his quality is.


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## Segan (Dec 9, 2008)

Dream Brother said:


> I'm not a big Bakker fan, really -- in terms of my favourite characters, I would take Glokta over Kellhus a thousand times out of a thousand.


It was incredible the way Abercrombie led Glokta through the story. It was basically a rise after the fall from a rise, except the second rise was higher and done as a cripple.



> I was actually thinking about how I would rank the current big authors in fantasy, in terms of how much I personally enjoy/respect their work. To give it a shot:
> *
> 1) Martin
> 2) Abercrombie*
> ...


Hr, hr, hr...

I wonder, if Abercrombie could compete for the first place on your list once his next book, Best Served Cold, comes out. 

It seems that Martin needed 5 years for _A Feast For Crows_. Wonder if it's difficult for him to keep the story going.


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## The Bloody Nine (Dec 9, 2008)

Segan said:


> I wonder, if Abercrombie could compete for the first place on your list once his next book, Best Served Cold, comes out.



I doubt it. His work seems far to... i don't know the only word i keep getting is "macho"...for all that emotion and poignancy that makes other fantasy epics his superiors. 

Maybe in a couple of years. 



Segan said:


> It seems that Martin needed 5 years for _A Feast For Crows_. Wonder if it's difficult for him to keep the story going.



I agree. I think Martin has lost it - it was exactly like this (though a much shorter delay) when Jordan started to lose control of his plot.

Personally i think Bakker will be the one sitting in the fantasy throne at the end. He has even said that the whole PoN trillogy was nothing more than a prologue. A necessary one, but a prologue all the same. He has been planning this story for years.  Also all the reviews i have read about the Judging Eye say that all that philosophy bullshit has been seriously toned down. That can only ever be a good thing.


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## Lord Yu (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm getting the last book on Saturday.


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## Crowe (Dec 11, 2008)

Is there a thread for "Prince of Nothing" ? Anyway, I am half through the first book and I'm not feeling it. It's an "okey" book so far but...

- Too much thoughts and too little action. You spend most of the time reading about how someone thinks about x and y, there is little information about what they do while thinking or any action in general. Inside Achamian's head: "Does Esmenet really love me etc etc

etc
etc
etc
etc"

*POV jump to another character*

*pov jump back to Achamian and inside his brain again: "I wonder how infuar* will react to x and y and I wonder what will happen if I tell him to do x 

etc 
etc
etc
etc"

He should add one or two 
*Achamian saw a few kids scurry away out of the house while he was walking towards the temple wearing nothing but diapers*

Then you have 4-5 lines which tells the story of how the hotheaded Holy War lieutenant, which Xerius was playing a trick with, goes on his own to get himself killed. 

I want to read about their actions about the roads they walk in, about the houses they live in, about their day not about how much they think about x person and how they try to outsmart each other. I can take it in small doses but not this large, reminds me of 20 or so pages of Toll The Hounds which I had to force me through.

*his student which i cant really remember the name of.

Decent book so far but I was hoping for more.


----------



## Segan (Dec 12, 2008)

Admittedly, Prince of Nothing isn't for everyone.


----------



## Crowe (Dec 20, 2008)

Sorry for the harsh words and the rant. I wont lie, I really despise the fact that we spend more time reading about their thoughts then we're reading about their action. It's basically 90% thoughts, someone trying to outsmart someone else but realizes that they are being outsmarted themselves etc.

The later half when Cnaur and Kellhus meet is faaar better then the first part, it still irks me and I really do not like Kellhus but it's a much better read. I am halfway through book #2 and am enjoying it way more then the first book. I want more action though T__T


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## Dream Brother (Dec 20, 2008)

My problem with Bakker is not so much that there's too much inward stuff (in fact, I love that kind of stuff in fiction, and Hobb is a good example of an author that does it very well) but the actual _execution_. His prose is...cold and detached, somehow. It's like reading a dissertation rather than a novel. What I like about Abercrombie is that his style is the exact _opposite_, in my opinion -- it leisurely reaches out from the pages, takes a talon-like grip on your throat and yanks you right into the tale, whether you like it or not. Utterly engaging.


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## The Bloody Nine (Dec 20, 2008)

mister. pek said:


> Sorry for the harsh words and the rant. I wont lie, I really despise the fact that we spend more time reading about their thoughts then we're reading about their action. It's basically 90% thoughts, someone trying to outsmart someone else but realizes that they are being outsmarted themselves etc.
> 
> The later half when Cnaur and Kellhus meet is faaar better then the first part, it still irks me and I really do not like Kellhus but it's a much better read. I am halfway through book #2 and am enjoying it way more then the first book. I want more action though T__T



Your reacting to these novels exactly like i did. If this model is going to continue then you will love the second book and the third one will disappoint you. 

Meh, well at least after this you can say you read the PoN and you will now look intellectual.

Also - please reply to my PM


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## Lord Yu (Dec 20, 2008)

Coincidentally, I just bought Last Argument Of Kings.


----------



## Crowe (Dec 20, 2008)

You'll love it.


Dream Brother said:


> My problem with Bakker is not so much that there's too much inward stuff (in fact, I love that kind of stuff in fiction, and Hobb is a good example of an author that does it very well) but the actual _execution_. His prose is...cold and detached, somehow. It's like reading a dissertation rather than a novel. What I like about Abercrombie is that his style is the exact _opposite_, in my opinion -- it leisurely reaches out from the pages, takes a talon-like grip on your throat and yanks you right into the tale, whether you like it or not. Utterly engaging.


I can't even compare them both. Bakker is repeating the same things over and over again. Achamian is crazy for Esmi and Esmi is crazy for Achamien, Cnaur is wary of Kellhus and Kellhus is trying to play everyone against each other. 

Hobb at least have action and I love the inward parts in his books. It builds up on teh characters while Bakkers weights down the character and the book feels much slower.


The Bloody Nine said:


> Your reacting to these novels exactly like i did. If this model is going to continue then you will love the second book and the third one will disappoint you.
> 
> Meh, well at least after this you can say you read the PoN and you will now look intellectual.
> 
> Also - please reply to my PM


Oh well. I'll give the third a try at least.


----------



## Tyrael (Dec 21, 2008)

I, on a whim, bought _The Blade Itself_ yesterday and have read the first 50 or so pages. Seems pretty cool so far, Glockta is by far the most interesting character in there so far.


----------



## Segan (Dec 21, 2008)

Tyrael said:


> I, on a whim, bought _The Blade Itself_ yesterday and have read the first 50 or so pages. Seems pretty cool so far, Glockta is by far the most interesting character in there so far.


Read on.

And congratulations to your purchase.


----------



## Segan (Dec 23, 2008)

This thread is getting too little attention.


----------



## Dionysus (Dec 23, 2008)

A couple weeks back a downloaded the (pek-same) html version of these books.  I'll get around to them soon enough.

I thought I couldn't read a full novel on a screen, but I proved myself wrong by finishing _Red Seas Over Red Skies_.  (Lynch needs to learn how to write so that not every character is a wryly humourous clone.  Engaging nonetheless.)  



Dream Brother said:


> What I like about Abercrombie is that his style is the exact _opposite_, in my opinion -- it leisurely reaches out from the pages, takes a talon-like grip on your throat and yanks you right into the tale, whether you like it or not. Utterly engaging.


This depends on how your mind works.  Bakker's writing pulled me in quite nicely.


----------



## Tyrael (Dec 23, 2008)

Finished _The Blade Itself_:

Was an enjoyable read-Abercrombie surprised by having a genuinely funny sense of wit running through his style. The world presented is dark and bloody but also possessing a somewhat cartoonish charm that really caught me off guard. Many fantasy authors (Mievelle is the worst offender, although Martin to some extent as well) just present an unremittingly dark picture that feels linear and not as rounded. It's definitely something used well too, always blending well with the darkness that is presented.

Stylistically, the repetition he uses is brilliant. The catchphrases that creep up add a definitive flavour to the prose, colour to what would otherwise be a fairly generic style.

It was surprising to find that by the end of the book the best characterised of the cast turned out to be major West. Throughout the characters were well done, if not outstandingly so, and there was depth to most of the cast although there did seem to be a noticeable cloning of the loud arrogant man in authority-although this is forgivable since it can be argued that the society they live in demands it.

Not much time was really dedicated to the world building and it was built up subtly. The result is that you get a channeled view of the world not necessarily too bad a thing, but the world does seem very unbalanced.

If I really have a problem with the book it is the old mistake made by every fantasy author it seems: sequels. I have no problem with this as long as you get a well structured book that builds to a climax-Jordan did this very well in many of the WoT books. _The Blade Itself_ just kind of stops. It just feels like a small part of a story rather than a book on it's own. I'm a very staunch believer a book should be a book, and this is definitely merely a volume, a fact I find galling.

The structure of the book is another thing I feel the need to pick holes in-I'm not a fan of the change in perspective every chapter. Admittedly Abercrombie makes it work most of the time and I did not find myself breaking immersion that often, but, inevitably, it still happened. Luckily, all of the story paths he followed were entertaining in their own right so it meant this is a fairly minor quibble.


----------



## Segan (Dec 23, 2008)

Glad you liked it.

His limited world-building is purely intentional. As is the perspective-change every chapter throughout the story.


----------



## Tyrael (Dec 23, 2008)

It would be quite an achievement to accidentally have your book change perspectives every chapter-it's just a stylistic hang-up I have. I prefer it when you get a decent run with each character and really have chance to build up a real involvement with the storyline.


----------



## Segan (Dec 23, 2008)

Tyrael said:


> It would be quite an achievement to accidentally have your book change perspectives every chapter-*it's just a stylistic hang-up I have*. I prefer it when you get a decent run with each character and really have chance to build up a real involvement with the storyline.


Yes, I noticed that. You have some clear preferences that work against Abercrombie's style.

But that's to be expected. Every reader has a taste of his/her own.


----------



## Lord Yu (Dec 23, 2008)

Tyrael said:


> It would be quite an achievement to accidentally have your book change perspectives every chapter-it's just a stylistic hang-up I have. I prefer it when you get a decent run with each character and really have chance to build up a real involvement with the storyline.



He fuses perspectives in the later books.


----------



## Dream Brother (Dec 23, 2008)

> This depends on how your mind works.



I should probably have specified that, but I just take it for a given that we all know how subjective the act of reading is -- I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who think that authors such as Bakker and Erikson have incredibly engaging and exciting prose styles. Not my cup of tea, but I'm certainly not going to claim that they're somehow silly, as a result. Just comes down to personal taste.

If I came across as putting forth my own opinion as some sort of universal truth, then I apologise. I'm normally the last person to go around treating fiction like a fixed entity. Like I said, though, I just usually assume that we're _all_ talking from a subjective perspective here.


----------



## Segan (Dec 27, 2008)

More of his cheeky and tongue-in-cheek blogs:

lol poor Real Madrid :rofl


----------



## Batman (Dec 29, 2008)

Well I sure am glad I picked up The Blade Itself. Not quite done, will probably take me a few more days, but I'll be damned if it isn't the most entertaining book I've read in close to six months.

I'll slowly exit the thread now before I spoil myself on the others.


----------



## Segan (Dec 29, 2008)

You're welcome, Bat. Give us a short review afterwards.

If it's positive, you get an honorable mention in my opening post.


----------



## Batman (Dec 30, 2008)

Segan said:


> You're welcome, Bat. Give us a short review afterwards.
> 
> If it's positive, you get an honorable mention in my opening post.



Ha! Well I'll keep it short and sweet then.

My thoughts on Book 1:

This is one of the most refreshing books I've read in years.  Refreshing in the sense that it's so engaging. Refreshing in the sense that it's not predictable. I can't express how impressed I was with this books unpredictability. Not to mention that the world is fascinating and the characters are so real they practically live in my mind. The writing style, I can only describe as getting repeatedly stabbed with a knife made of words. Deadly. Precise. With an edge that will take your head off if you're not careful.

There are so many characters I love and so many characters I hate in Abercrombie's world. And that's what blows me away; I care.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Dec 30, 2008)

Batman said:


> Ha! Well I'll keep it short and sweet then.
> 
> My thoughts on Book 1:
> 
> ...



Excellent. Looks like your really gonna love the other two.

Anyhow, Yu you done yet ?


----------



## Segan (Dec 30, 2008)

Batman said:


> Ha! Well I'll keep it short and sweet then.
> 
> My thoughts on Book 1:
> 
> ...


Excellent, very excellent. 

Yu hasn't picked up on the series since a while ago, it would seem.


----------



## Segan (Jan 4, 2009)

Now you have.


----------



## Segan (Jan 5, 2009)

Another blog from Mr. Joe: New Years Honours List

And for anyone who lives in UK (at least I think it happens in UK): The Magnificen Eight


----------



## Batman (Jan 5, 2009)

Since I've just completed the second book, I thought I'd compile a list of the characters I hate. 

*Ardee* - I can't stand this woman. I don't feel sorry for her. I'm just annoyed by her.
*Jezel *- He went from pompous and incompetent to dopey and incompetent. Way to go.
*Crown Prince Ladisla* - *Gives West a High Five* 


hmmm. I think that's all I can think of for now. .. 

OH WAIT! *Quai* - What the hell happened?


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Jan 5, 2009)

Batman said:


> OH WAIT! *Quai* - What the hell happened?



What was that annoying thing that Robert Jordan used to do when asked a question ?

Ah....RAFO!


*Spoiler*: __ 



Read and Find Out.


----------



## Segan (Jan 5, 2009)

Batman said:


> Since I've just completed the second book, I thought I'd compile a list of the characters I hate.
> 
> *Ardee* - I can't stand this woman. I don't feel sorry for her. I'm just annoyed by her.
> *Jezel *- He went from pompous and incompetent to dopey and incompetent. Way to go.
> ...


You're in the second book and still can't spell Jezal's name?


----------



## Batman (Jan 5, 2009)

Segan said:


> You're in the second book and still can't spell Jezal's name?



 I knew I really hated him deep down. I read his name a billion times and can't even be fussed to commit it to memory.


----------



## Segan (Jan 5, 2009)

He's my least favourite of the lead characters, too.


----------



## Batman (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm kinda hoping he get's a bit better in the final book, but my hopes aren't too high. Nor my expectations.


----------



## Segan (Jan 5, 2009)

Batman said:


> I'm kinda hoping he get's a bit better in the final book, but my hopes aren't too high. Nor my expectations.


Haha, looks like you're charging right into Abercrombie's trap here.


----------



## Batman (Jan 5, 2009)

Segan said:


> Haha, looks like you're charging right into Abercrombie's trap here.



I can't help it. I find find it all so fascinating. I'm going to hate when I finish it b/c I don't know what else to read that will pull me in quite so much.  But I do have time until then, I suppose.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jan 5, 2009)

Segan said:


> Another blog from Mr. Joe: New Years Honours List



_'I must admit I was somewhat disappointed to see that I'd only won "Most Accessible Author," which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but feels a tad like being voted, "Most Likely to Put Out," in a school yearbook.'_

Hahaha. 



> And for anyone who lives in UK (at least I think it happens in UK): The Magnificen Eight



Woah, they're holding it at Forbidden Planet? I've actually been there a handful of times, it's like Geek Paradise. (Seriously.) If I'm in London on that day then I may go down there and chat with Abercrombie. Would be cool. 

Also...Jezal <3


----------



## Segan (Jan 5, 2009)

Dream Brother said:


> Woah, they're holding it at Forbidden Planet? I've actually been there a handful of times, it's like Geek Paradise. (Seriously.) If I'm in London on that day then I may go down there and chat with Abercrombie. Would be cool.
> 
> Also...Jezal <3


So you know the place? I will cheer you on if you decide to go to London. =)


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 5, 2009)

Apparently Abercombie is rather badass.

But I was in Edinburgh's Forbidden Planet today, I'm slightly worried that it might not be their for that much longer with the credit crunch and all.


----------



## Moonshine (Jan 5, 2009)

I picked up the first book last week, read about hundred pages. I must say i am captured by this book. It was kinda slow at the first few chapters, but picked up. I have to read more when i have the time.


----------



## Dionysus (Jan 5, 2009)

Hm.  Didn't like the end of book three.  Say one thing about Abercrombie, say he leaves a dismal outlook.  (Evidently his editor made him put in a few rays of light in.)

Edit: Thought I'd add there are other things that bothered me about the series.  But, for a new writer, it's a solid effort.


----------



## Segan (Jan 6, 2009)

Dionysus said:


> *snip*


Can't hear you, lalala... no, seriously, you probably just prefer happy endings of sorts. 

Though, you should've known this when you were reading through all three books.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Jan 6, 2009)

Dionysus said:


> Hm.  Didn't like the end of book three.  Say one thing about Abercrombie, say he leaves a dismal outlook.  (Evidently his editor made him put in a few rays of light in.)
> 
> Edit: Thought I'd add there are other things that bothered me about the series.  But, for a new writer, it's a solid effort.



As the only one who didn't like it in this thread - your pretty much obligated to give a full review. 

Come on man - apart from the bleak ending - what else didn't you like ?


----------



## Dream Brother (Jan 6, 2009)

Say one thing about Dionysus, say that he's about to get lynched. 

But yeah, I can understand the 'dismal' charge, even if I don't personally agree.


----------



## Segan (Jan 6, 2009)

The only complaint I would have about the ending, is that it completely crushed me. Which only speaks for the author.


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 6, 2009)

Someone not agreeing with the status quo? 

I think a bit of an antidote to all this love going around about it is good. When there is so much hype I'm suspicious.


----------



## Segan (Jan 6, 2009)

That antidote will have no effect, I assure you, dear Tyrael.


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 6, 2009)

But, a bit of negative hype would probably be good for when I come to the second and third books. Help me come at the whole thing with a clearer head.


----------



## Segan (Jan 6, 2009)

Okay, here's your dose of negative hype:

The second book is just pure trash. The writing is just bland and terrible dialogues make the reading experience a nightmare.

Third one is even worse. Characters feel like a piece of shit inked on paper, the plot goes nowhere and the ending is the worst one ever written.

That negative enough?


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 6, 2009)

I guess it's not worth reading them then?


----------



## Segan (Jan 6, 2009)

Since you finished the first one, you might as well keep on going.


----------



## Yulwei (Jan 13, 2009)

You know when you think about it only West got really screwed over.

*Spoiler*: __ 





Ferro got what she wanted but lost what she'd gained
Logen got what he wanted but nothing changed
Jezel got more than what he wanted but after it had ceased to be important to him. Furthermore what he wanted was even more holow than he'd expected.
Bayaz certainly got exactly what he wanted exactly how he wanted it.
Glokta is leagues better than he was in the begining and he doesn't sem to regret the fact he's still on a leash.
West on the other hand got more than he ever hoped and just as he was positioned to enjoy it it was ripped out of his hands


----------



## Segan (Jan 13, 2009)

You might want to spoiler tag this. You just posted some essential infos about the characters.


----------



## Yulwei (Jan 13, 2009)

I could certainly have spoiled a lot more but if you insist I'll tag it


----------



## Batman (Jan 13, 2009)

I still have a hundred pages left, but I will say that Joe Abercrombie writes like me, or I write like him. A better paced, better structured version my writing style but strikingly similar all the same. We even share a few story themes, which is odd.

I've mentioned this to a friend of mind, and it really feels like reading one of my books that I'll never write.

I think I'm going to have to meet the man.

When I finish, I'll drop my thoughts on the story.


----------



## Segan (Jan 14, 2009)

Batman said:


> I still have a hundred pages left, but I will say that Joe Abercrombie writes like me, or I write like him. A better paced, better structured version my writing style but strikingly similar all the same. We even share a few story themes, which is odd.
> 
> I've mentioned this to a friend of mind, and it really feels like reading one of my books that I'll never write.
> 
> ...


Weeeell, if that's the case...

I've mentioned this earlier, but Abercrombie will be present at Forbidden Planet 22nd January, see this article.. I believe, this will be in London.

Maybe this is your chance? =>


----------



## Segan (Jan 14, 2009)

Blog update:

- Best Served Cold is finished, now there's going to be a lot of proofreading and the like before the book comes out.
- He will be writing a short story.
- A few droplet infos about his next installment of the First Law universe
- He will do some actual reading, meaning, he will read other authors' books.
- And lastly, that pompous man is promoting the David Gemmell Legend Award, and guess who he wants you to vote for?

Full article.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Jan 14, 2009)

Brilliant article - i have honestly started to like reading his blogs as much as i do his books. 



			
				 Abercrombie said:
			
		

> Around the same time, with any luck and a little help from the God of Release Dates, proofs of Best Served Cold should begin to go out, accompanied by, I can pretty much guarantee, *outrageous claims on the back cover* as to my genius, critical acclaim, exclusivity, commerciality, sales, and sexual prowess which may verge dangerously close to _hype_. Guard your fragile minds, advance readers, lest you be beguiled. I wonder if it will be with this book or the next that I will suffer a brutal backlash for my surely unsustainable levels of interweb popularity. It only takes one little boy, after all, to pull his finger out of the dyke and say, "you know, I'm not sure Abercrombie's really all that good..." And before you know it we'll be swept away by a flood of shit reviews. You mark my words. I'm prepared to weather the storm, though, because, as we all know, it isn't until you recieve a universal critical crap-panning that the sales really skyrocket...


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 31, 2009)

Necro'd.

Halfway the second book and I am rather bloody impressed. Glockta, more than anyone else, really seems to have come into his own.


----------



## Segan (Jan 31, 2009)

Tyrael said:


> Necro'd.
> 
> Halfway the second book and I am rather bloody impressed. Glockta, more than anyone else, really seems to have come into his own.


That's one more quote to use. Thank you.


----------



## Tyrael (Feb 1, 2009)

Finished the second book. My usual pedantic views:

At first going into this, memories of _The Blade Itself_ fresh in my mind I knew I was going to be in for a highly readable and entertaining book. There was worries I had, and unfortunately the start of the book looked as if my doubts were well placed. Nevertheless Abercrombie then remeinded me how many things he does very well and I was pulled in willingly. When it did, I can describe the experience with one word:

Phwoar

A review I read prior to it seems very apt: all of what was good about it the first is awesome about the second. Characters, structure, humour and inventiveness are all the more apparent. It gets you caring about the ragtag collection of protagonists and gives them depth. It was funny at times, but also managed to, during a couple of scenes, uphold a poignancy of sorts too.

My primary worry about the book was what seemed to be a real lack of ambition in the books. _The Blade Itself_ had little in the way of memorable set pieces, mostly just working it's way a long a type of story equilibrium. _Before They Are Hanged_, however, gave me a fair few big scenes to chew on.

The best thing about Abercrombie is his originality though. A book that has a complete character of it's own is a rare thing in fantasy and whenever one comes along that alone makes it worth a read. Luckily, it happens to be both original and brilliant.

Concerning the ending:


*Spoiler*: __ 



It was a nice twist to give them a rock instead of the aforementioned seed, but, as odd as this may sound, it felt a tad predictable. The problem with it was that he had kind of built up the journey so it seemed pointless from the start, and never made us particularly care about the end result. Thus, when it turns out to be a wild goose chase, it felt like that was going to happen all along. Possibly this was the intention, but I would of liked the book to finish as strongly as the rest of the book had carried itself.


West is still my favourite character, but Glockta really came into his own here. Very, very good book.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Feb 1, 2009)

Its very strange - its like Abercrombie meditated over your review before he decided to write, and address all your issues, in the third book. But i'm fairly sure Abercrombie can't time travel.


----------



## Tyrael (Feb 1, 2009)

I wouldn't put it past him.

Never even gave me credit, the bastard.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Feb 1, 2009)

Tyrael said:


> I wouldn't put it past him.
> 
> Never even gave me credit, the bastard.



Perhaps he did but the name he gave was the one you will change yours to in the year 2189.


----------



## Segan (Feb 2, 2009)

Someone create a second post for me to edit without deleting any other posts. The first post has no place for more text anymore :/


----------



## Segan (Feb 2, 2009)

Update: Advance Reader Copies of Best Served Cold are in


----------



## Tyrael (Feb 2, 2009)

> and these things are FACTS that you can COUNT ON because my PUBLISHER says so on the BACK OF THE BOOK.





No arguing with that logic.

Plus Seg, give DB a PM about the extra post. Might be beyond his powers as a mod though.


----------



## Segan (Feb 3, 2009)

He's Bragi now, right?


----------



## Tyrael (Feb 3, 2009)

He was Bragi, but he's back to being DB again. The Norse thing seems to have ended.


----------



## Segan (Feb 6, 2009)

Attention!

US Artcover decided! 

Read this blog for further informations.

Another hilarious article from Mr. Joe.


----------



## Dream Brother (Feb 6, 2009)

It's not _bad_, but I certainly prefer the UK version. Far more simple and elegant.


----------



## Segan (Feb 6, 2009)

Well, I think I'm going for both the UK and US versions this time. They both appeal to me.


----------



## Tyrael (Feb 6, 2009)

What's the UK version look like again?

And tbh I'm not too hot on that American cover. When there is a figure on the front cover of the book, especially if they are of the leather bound or cape swaddled variety, I tend to get put off.

Edit-Yeah, UK one is the one I like the best.


----------



## Segan (Feb 10, 2009)

Why does my thread always get so dangerously near the second page? 

New blog post at Abercrombie's homepage: What they are saying Feb '09

Most interesting part for you folks would be this:


> I actually recently experienced what must be a key moment in the development of any author - I was sent the first post-graduate dissertation by an English student focusing on my work. You think I'm joking, don't you? Joe, I can hear you saying, stop! Stop! My sides are splitting! Your stuff is disposable genre fantasy trash, who could possibly take an interest in serious academic analysis of your semi-literate sword-obsessed scrawlings?
> 
> But I'm not joking. It came from a very polite student at Arhus University, Denmark, and focuses on the affirmation of meaning versus non-significance, analysing the key differences between the approaches of the First Law and classic epic fantasy using Bakhtin's theory of chronotopes sprinkled with a little existentialist philosophy.
> 
> That's right. Shelve me with the literature, motherf*ckers, because not even I understand how high-brow I am. What with that and the Junot Diaz quote, it's high time I got some frakkin' RESPECT around here! RESPECT! *IT COSTS NOTHING!*





There's also a new interwiew:


----------



## Segan (Feb 11, 2009)

There's a video interview for all those who would like to see what he's like:


----------



## Yulwei (Feb 13, 2009)

He's a lot less cocky in his interviews although his cockiness is more entertaining than off putting.


----------



## Dream Brother (Feb 13, 2009)

You should have your extra post now, Segan.

(Courtesy of Jetstorm.)

Checking out the Abercrombie interview now.


----------



## Segan (Feb 13, 2009)

Great. Give Jetstorm my thanks.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Feb 13, 2009)

Oi segan do yourself a favour and post in the Kellhus Anasurimbor vs Opverse thread in the OBD. 

As for Abercrombie - i prefer him much more as a blogger. Maybe it was the nerves but in that interview he was waffling.


----------



## Yulwei (Feb 16, 2009)

Right I've a question and a thought which I reckon should provoke some discussion. I won't spoiler tag them as both these things were mentioned in the 1st book and I can't see anyone checking this thread without at least knowing the general gist of what happens in the 1st book

1) When someone is turned into an Eater do they eat human flesh only when hungry, eat consistantly and ravenousley, eat only after expending massive effort or never need to eat after the first eating [their dietary requirements being covered by eating regular food]
2) Abercrombie seems insistant on the idea of violence being potrayed realistically and so he has violence being commited by humans against other humans. All well and good but isn't he guilty of creating a typical fantasy evil race in the form of the Shanka. Now if he'd humanised the Shanka that would be fine but the only thing they've done besides fighting is eating human flesh and making weapons hardly the sort of stuff that sparks empathy


----------



## Segan (Feb 16, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> 1) When someone is turned into an Eater do they eat human flesh only when hungry, eat consistantly and ravenousley, eat only after expending massive effort or never need to eat after the first eating [their dietary requirements being covered by eating regular food]


I don't remember Abercrombie having ever covered that part.



> 2) Abercrombie seems insistant on the idea of violence being potrayed realistically and so he has violence being commited by humans against other humans. All well and good but isn't he guilty of creating a typical fantasy evil race in the form of the Shanka. Now if he'd humanised the Shanka that would be fine but the only thing they've done besides fighting is eating human flesh and making weapons hardly the sort of stuff that sparks empathy


Err...so?


----------



## Yulwei (Feb 16, 2009)

The point is it's kinda hypocritical. The fact he used them sparingly makes it less glaring but if you're going to go on about how fantasy tries to make good and evil black and white and how they reduce the horror of violence by making the enemies inhuman then having a race which fulfils all the criteria of being a classic fantasy evil race somewhat weakens your argument

I'm not saying having the Shanka made the book less enjoyable it's just it makes some of the things he says in interviews and on his blog and some of the things people say about him somewhat less true though not necessarily making them lies


----------



## Segan (Feb 16, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> I'm not saying having the Shanka made the book less enjoyable it's just it makes some of the things he says in interviews and on his blog and some of the things people say about him somewhat less true though not necessarily making them lies


And what would those things be?


----------



## Yulwei (Feb 16, 2009)

The things I mentioned in the first paragraph. It's not a major gripe it's simply something I noticed and felt would provoke some discussion but it seems I was wrong


----------



## Segan (Feb 16, 2009)

I don't think you could call the Shanka evil. They are simply created to be animalistic, without the ability to reason.


----------



## Yulwei (Feb 16, 2009)

Isn't that the whole basis of an evil race in essence they're evil because it's their nature. Basically there's two ways that non-human races can be humanised giving them a rich culture ion addition to their violent ways or showing them in domestic situations. We only ever saw Shanka in battle making them look all bad all the time


----------



## Kender (Feb 16, 2009)

Just finished the series.
When I finished the first chapter I thought This will just be a quick read until I can find something better. Now I'm disappointed!
Its going to be hard to find something better!
Ive been reading GRRM Song of Ice and Fire (or not reading, 12 years and the fifth book is still not out!)
When the next book comes out I think I will save it until all of them are out and then reread the whole series.
I'm looking forward to Abercrombies next book.
Is it going to be another trilogy or just the one book?


----------



## Segan (Feb 17, 2009)

Abercrombie has signed to write two stand-alone books, of which he has finished one already, Best Served Cold.


----------



## Yulwei (Feb 17, 2009)

I can't say I'm looking forward to the Northmen one. I can just barely stand Logen when he isn't the Bloody Nine but I detest all the others. Whenever I reread the books I always skip the Northmen bits


----------



## Segan (Feb 17, 2009)

Come on, they are awesome. I especially like Crummock-i-Phail.


----------



## Kender (Feb 17, 2009)

I liked the northmen also.
Logen was developed nicely


*Spoiler*: __ 



When Dogman seen Logan for the first time at the fire it was pure happiness then later after the war, when he seen him, it was like Damn thats the last person he ever wants to see again.




I think alot of things like that were well done.


----------



## Segan (Feb 17, 2009)

Black Dow was also a magnificent bastard.


----------



## Yulwei (Feb 17, 2009)

Segan said:


> Come on, they are awesome. I especially like Crummock-i-Phail.



Alright I'll give you him but as far as I'm concerned all the good members of Logen's crew were killed off leaving only the bastards and the yes man [the label isn't a perfect fit for Dogman but him defending Logen at the end pretty much cemented this view of him in my mind].

It's highly likely new characters I'll find interesting will be introduced in the book and Logen is interesting when he isn't consumed by bloodlust but I'm not expecting to be wowed based on my previous experience of the Northmen


----------



## Kender (Feb 17, 2009)

I even liked Grim even thou all he ever did was grunt.
Sounds like someone I know


----------



## Segan (Feb 18, 2009)

Yeah, it's a shame that Logen's crew got reduced one by one. Rudd Threetrees and Tul Duru Thunderhead were all cool characters.


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 22, 2009)

Finally, finished it.


----------



## Segan (Feb 22, 2009)

Lord Yu said:


> Finally, finished it.


I'm not satisfied with that one single comment.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Feb 22, 2009)

Oi Segan try to get your hands on a book called Contract by Simon Spurrier. He's got a very odd writing style (just read this extract) but once you get used to it its bloody hilarious and a bloody good read all in all, though its got a bit of an odd ending. 

For a while there i was honestly wondering whether Abercrombie had written it under a pen name, they do a lot of the things the same.


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 22, 2009)

Segan said:


> I'm not satisfied with that one single comment.



I don't have time to make comments. I have essays to finish.


----------



## Segan (Feb 24, 2009)

Kovacs said:


> Oi Segan try to get your hands on a book called Contract by Simon Spurrier. He's got a very odd writing style (just read this extract) but once you get used to it its bloody hilarious and a bloody good read all in all, though its got a bit of an odd ending.
> 
> For a while there i was honestly wondering whether Abercrombie had written it under a pen name, they do a lot of the things the same.


It does look interesting, but I'm afraid, I don't have the time for that.



Lord Yu said:


> I don't have time to make comments. I have essays to finish.


----------



## Segan (Feb 24, 2009)

Double posting in my thread? Well, as long as it's just me, it's all fine.

New blog from Mr. Joe


> SFFWorld have voted Last Argument of Kings their favourite book of 2008. Well, Patrick Rothfuss scored the same number of points for Name of the Wind, but due to a wrinkle of the rules, rather than a tie, I WON! And, you know, it's not about how you win, or by how much, it's just about winning. Opponent slips and twists his ankle, cannot continue? Win. Opponent slips and shatters his ankle, ending his career? Win. Piano falls on opponent on the way to the match? Number 1, baby!


----------



## Dream Brother (Feb 24, 2009)

Haha. Rothfuss is good, but I would definitely place Abercrombie above him, so that result looks fitting to me.


----------



## Segan (Feb 24, 2009)

Looks like I really need to read Rothfuss' novel one of these days.


----------



## Moonshine (Feb 24, 2009)

I finally got the second and the last book. Currently reading the second, about halfway through. That Prince Ladisla is a real idiot. He needs to listen to those who have more experience.


----------



## Segan (Feb 24, 2009)

Moonshine said:


> I finally got the second and the last book. Currently reading the second, about halfway through. That Prince Ladisla is a real idiot. He needs to listen to those who have more experience.


Well, you know, Prince Ladisla is just....Prince Ladisla.


----------



## Segan (Feb 27, 2009)

Aaall right, new blog entry. This time it's about a review for Joe's latest book *Best Served Cold*, and it's the very first in the undoubtedly long list of reviews to come.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Feb 27, 2009)

I thought it was less a review and more a literary fangasm. 

I can't wait to join in.


----------



## Segan (Feb 27, 2009)

Depending on the subject, one and another may be the same.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Feb 27, 2009)

More Abercrombie interviews coming to you from a source other than Segan.

It was actually pretty good.  

Now thats done i can coast on this thread for the next 5 pages.


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 27, 2009)

Further comments on Last Argument of Kings. It left me with that warm hollow feeling I get after finishing a good book. The amount of thoughts it gave me was delicious.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Feb 27, 2009)

Lord Yu said:


> Further comments on Last Argument of Kings. It left me with that warm hollow feeling I get after finishing a good book. The amount of thoughts it gave me was delicious.



Translation and summary; it was a good book that moved you and made you think. 

Right ?

Because if so i can live with that.


----------



## Segan (Feb 28, 2009)

Kovacs said:


> More Abercrombie interviews coming to you from a source other than Segan.
> 
> It was actually pretty good.
> 
> Now thats done i can coast on this thread for the next 5 pages.


Uh huh, that's...great. I hope you will keep my thread alive for the next week while I'm absent.



Lord Yu said:


> Further comments on Last Argument of Kings. It left me with that warm hollow feeling I get after finishing a good book. The amount of thoughts it gave me was delicious.


Delicious, huh? Hopefully you marked your calendar for the release of Best Served Cold.


----------



## Segan (Feb 28, 2009)

Uh huh, as of lately, I seem to have the tendency to double post. Though, I'm not worried since it's still my thread 

Newest blog entry which is - unsurprisingly - about the same topic Bloody Nine posted just recently.

Blog entry: See me through your Eye-Holes

It contains five interview parts, of which the first one has already been posted above. They are all on youtube.

Have fun.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Mar 5, 2009)

Best Served Cold; Entire First Chapter

Its Win! 

In before Segan


----------



## Yulwei (Mar 7, 2009)

Seems alright enough but one chapter isn't enough to get a feel for the characters


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Mar 7, 2009)

True enough - but  is another Abercrombie-fan's reaction to the books. 

When he finished the book his first pre-review reaction was;



> Finished it.
> 
> I think 'reeling' is the appropriate first reaction. More later when I've thought more about it and digested it.
> 
> ...



Its gonna be a hard couple of months


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm gonna hold off on reading that extract -- I like reading books in big chunks, and that would just tease me. I'm definitely looking forward to the release.

Oh, TBN -- wasn't it Shelley, and not Byron, who wrote _Ozymandias_?


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Mar 7, 2009)

Dream Brother said:


> I'm gonna hold off on reading that extract -- I like reading books in big chunks, and that would just tease me. I'm definitely looking forward to the release.



Wow. Someone with wisdom and self control. Didnt know they existed.  



Dream Brother said:


> Oh, TBN -- wasn't it Shelley, and not Byron, who wrote _Ozymandias_?



Well according to Wikipedia -  which according to Pint's friends professor is statistically more accurate than the _Encyclopaedia Britannica_ - they both wrote a poem called Ozymandias as a sort of competition. 

Byrons was better.


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 7, 2009)

Haha, do you know if Byron's version is online anywhere? I'd love to read that, as I had no clue that he wrote one too. It would be interesting to see how he approached the subject. (My favourite of his works is still _Darkness_.)


----------



## Segan (Mar 7, 2009)

Bah, I ain't reading a preview. I will get the whole book on day one. Or when I get to buy it, whatever.

I will get both the UK and US versions, of course.


----------



## Segan (Mar 14, 2009)

New blog entry

And of course, it's just the obligatory asskissing reviews that Mr. Joe ever bothers to bring up, but you should still read them for entertainment purposes anyway.


----------



## Yulwei (Mar 17, 2009)

If he's written books set in the Union, has written a book about Styria and is planning a book about the North then it stands to reason a book about Ghurkul will appear in the fullness of time. I'm rather interested in what Ferro has done with her new found abilities


----------



## Segan (Mar 17, 2009)

He might, and he might not. Abercrombie has stated he doesn't intend to stay in the First Law universe forever.


----------



## Yulwei (Mar 17, 2009)

6 books in no way constitutes forever but it's his call. I'm just saying what I'd like to happen and where I think the books might be leading


----------



## Arakasi (Mar 20, 2009)

Love this series. Joe is a 1st class author, personally I'd rank him right around that lazy bastard Martin in authorial skill. His ability to turn archetypes and tropes around was highly effective and entertaining.

Logen was definitely my fav character with Glokta a close second. Also the direction that Bayaz went was intriguing, thank god he didn't turn out like Gandalf. Ferro was the only character who felt 2-D.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 20, 2009)

Ferro is a perfect example of some people never change, which in a sense sadly realistic.


----------



## Segan (Mar 21, 2009)

More reviews of Best Served Cold


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## Yulwei (Mar 23, 2009)

Lord Yu said:


> Ferro is a perfect example of some people never change, which in a sense sadly realistic.



Colour me crazy but Logen was rather unchanging as well. Basically the only people who could fix either of them was each other [this sentence just reads wrong but you get the gist of what I'm saying]. If they hadn't broken up, a state of affairs which lies solidly at Logen's feet, they'd both have some degree of normalcy and contentment in their lives.

As for being 2D the idea behind Ferro seemed to be that she got hurt so much that she couldn't ever get near anybody and was pretty much empty inside. With Logen shebegan to fill that void but he betrayed her and she chose to go back to her old ways. She realised due to having had something more that the path she was on wasn't the right but it was much too late and the lat shreds of her humanity were stripped away by the other side or rather every last shred of her being is used preventing herself from becoming a vessel of the other side and directing her eldritch powers against all those who've ever hurt her.

If Ferro had been given a supporting cast and had a greater inner monologue she'd have been as developed as Jezal and Logen but we never got to hearher thoughts and everybody who ever knew her died or didn't know her long enough to give an accurate summation of who she is or at least who people think she is.


----------



## Segan (Mar 26, 2009)

You might be intrested in their OBD wiki page

Mr. Joe got his second daughter. Quite sweet.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 26, 2009)

It is good that he is breeding. The next generation will need folks of his calibur.


----------



## Segan (Apr 3, 2009)

Haha, another fun blog from Mr. Joe:

April Fool's Winners

He will also be participating in Sci-Fi London.


----------



## Segan (Apr 8, 2009)

Come on, guys, are there  no new readers to The First Law? Show yourselves!

On another note, Dream Brother once mentioned he saw big ads for Abercrombie's works in London, and it seems that Mr. Joe has caught up on this as well.

Proof? He claims to have shot eighty-five photos for these ads alone, of which he selected two for the blog.


----------



## Segan (Apr 15, 2009)

I'm starting to rage. Is our section really this poorly frequented, that no one passes by and start talking about Mr. Joe's works? 

On another note, Mallozzi has reviewed Best Served Cold., Last Argument of Kings got into Gemmell's shortlist and there's a new interview.

As for the source, here's the latest blog.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 15, 2009)

I frequant it fairly often but usually there's nothing new furthermore anything I'd like to discuss is 80% speculation with little chance of being confirmed or denied at any point in the future


----------



## Segan (Apr 15, 2009)

I guess, Abercrombie needs to start a series in the vein of A Song of Ice and Fire, Malazan Empire and Wheel of Time.


----------



## Arakasi (Apr 15, 2009)

Segan said:


> I guess, Abercrombie needs to start a series in the vein of A Song of Ice and Fire, Malazan Empire and Wheel of Time.



No thank you, I much prefer a quality trilogy that is written in a reasonable amount of time and excludes filler characters, over those bloated decade spanning behemoths.


----------



## Segan (Apr 15, 2009)

My bad, the "decade spanning" part completely escaped me before. I wouldn't want that either.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 16, 2009)

The thing is while there's a couple of questions left over Abercrombie wrapped up his trilogy fairly tightly. We might wonder what became of the characters but they'll never reunite in an epic story ever again because the situation that created the first one was fully resolved.


----------



## Segan (Apr 16, 2009)

Who knows, Abercrombie tends to be rather creative. Maybe Monza and Ferro once meet up and tear up some shit in a future stand-alone book?


----------



## Segan (Apr 20, 2009)

Sigh, it worries me that I'm running the PR-campaign practically alone...

New blog post is up. He's working on the next standalone novel.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 20, 2009)

It worries me that you feel you have to run a PR campaign. 'Crombie really ought to be thankful he has a fan like you.

But I should have taken more care flicking through this thread, I presumed 'twould be spoiler free outside of tags. Although I'm a quarter of _Last Arguments With Kings_ I know:


*Spoiler*: __ 



All the Northmen, save for Logen, die and Ferro ends up with powers, presumably the ones that the seed carried.


----------



## Segan (Apr 20, 2009)

Tyrael said:


> It worries me that you feel you have to run a PR campaign. 'Crombie really ought to be thankful he has a fan like you.
> 
> But I should have taken more care flicking through this thread, I presumed 'twould be spoiler free outside of tags. Although I'm a quarter of _Last Arguments With Kings_ I know:
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



Not all of them die, but the better part of them, unfortunately.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 20, 2009)

The moment I realised I had staggered into spoiler territory I stopped reading the post, so I did not catch the full details. Not enough to really ruin the book-it is very good so far-but, still somethings I wish I had not happened upon.


----------



## Segan (Apr 20, 2009)

I think I should put a message, that spoilers without tags aren't welcome.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 20, 2009)

Segan said:


> Who knows, Abercrombie tends to be rather creative. Maybe Monza and Ferro once meet up and tear up some shit in a future stand-alone book?



From the little I know of Monza that book would kick unspeakable sums of ass.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Apr 20, 2009)

I am wondering how Abercrombie, from the very-nearly-grittilly-realistic school of fantasy, gets around a woman being a badass warrior ?

Ferro had demon blood. Monza has...exquisite skill ? demon blood ? a violent superhuman alter ego ? a gun ?

One wonders.


----------



## Segan (Apr 20, 2009)

She appears to be a pretty successful mercenary who had teamed up with her own brother. I doubt she has some special powers like Ferro.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 20, 2009)

Ferro seemed to be a moderately good fighter in and of herself I wouldn't put her surviving the Emperor's attempts to bring her to justice as being completely reliant on her demon blood. How many people would require him to send an Army and a couple of Eaters either it's overkill or she's just that good.


----------



## Segan (Apr 20, 2009)

Well, her demon blood gives her a substantial boost at least when it comes to her hand-eye-coordination. She had fantastic archery skills.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm not suggesting it's useless but it's far from so useful that she'd be as weak as a chambermaid without it. It's pretty much the equivalent of a male hero having a magic sword sure it gives him an edge but a sword no matter how good is just a chunk of metal if you don't know what you're on about


----------



## Arakasi (Apr 20, 2009)

The Bloody Nine said:


> I am wondering how Abercrombie, from the very-nearly-grittilly-realistic school of fantasy, gets around a woman being a badass warrior ?
> 
> Ferro had demon blood. Monza has...exquisite skill ? demon blood ? a violent superhuman alter ego ? a gun ?
> 
> One wonders.



Make her like Brienne from ASOIAF, basically a man with a Vag.


----------



## Segan (Apr 21, 2009)

Arakasi said:


> Make her like Brienne from ASOIAF, basically a man with a Vag.


Please note that I'm still planning on reading ASoIaF, so please don't reveal any details about characters, plot and the like.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 21, 2009)

A woman in a fantasy world can't be feminine and kick ass as is somewhat possible in modern society because fantasy is such a sexist scenario that a woman has to make men forget she's a woman to begin with by either acting like a man completely or being so good at fighting or whatever that men are forced to respect her. All this leads to the masculinisation of female heroes. Most authors seem to counter this by giving the female lead a love interest or whacking her in a an outfitfit that shows of her assets I reckon both these methods suck but I've yet to see a female asskicker not suffer one or both


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Apr 21, 2009)

Segan said:


> Please note that I'm still planning on reading ASoIaF, so please don't reveal any details about characters, plot and the like.



Meh, its a very minor character point. You can get spoiled a hell of a lot worse when it comes to Martin. 

At first i thought he would make Monza like the Sandsnakes - fightning in a very unsual non-hack-slash style but i think i've got it now. The rapier. 

The sword play in the Cities is based around a rapier which is less about power an d more about speed and skill. Perfectly even playing field for a woman. In fact it seems that Monza was based off a real life Italian mercenary commander with tits. Kind of awesome really.

Yulwei- kicking ass is hardly a feminine trait in and off itself.


----------



## Segan (Apr 21, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> A woman in a fantasy world can't be feminine and kick ass as is somewhat possible in modern society because fantasy is such a sexist scenario that a woman has to make men forget she's a woman to begin with by either acting like a man completely or being so good at fighting or whatever that men are forced to respect her. All this leads to the masculinisation of female heroes. Most authors seem to counter this by giving the female lead a love interest or whacking her in a an outfitfit that shows of her assets I reckon both these methods suck but I've yet to see a female asskicker not suffer one or both


Well, this wouldn't be so much an issue if men weren't so prone to abusing women in general, you know...and this is a fact.

Without an adequate equality law that is enforced, men aren't exactly keen on leaving women a place for standing on equal terms, much less as superiors (barring royal blood) to them. They would need to fight for anything without being offered a chance. As a consequence, it's pretty hard to be respected when being viewed as a woman.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 21, 2009)

So far as I can see women are just as violent as men they just go about in a differant way due to society saying they shouldn't be and the fact that the people they generally want to assualt are men and so more often than not stronger than them. In so called catfights women are seeking to humiliate and hurt hence the rather lacklustre display of fighting skills but emphasis on embarassing or from the point of a viewer arousing actions

Still as you suggest a trained male warrior is almost certain to be stronger than a trained female one hence their reliance on so called tricks.


----------



## Segan (Apr 21, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> So far as I can see women are just as violent as men they just go about in a differant way due to society saying they shouldn't be and the fact that the people they generally want to assualt are men and so more often than not stronger than them. In so called catfights women are seeking to humiliate and hurt hence the rather lacklustre display of fighting skills but emphasis on embarassing or from the point of a viewer arousing actions
> 
> Still as you suggest a trained male warrior is almost certain to be stronger than a trained female one hence their reliance on so called tricks.


I'm talking more about the general picture and not so much about something as specific as fighting skills and violence. Women sure can be as violent as men, but generally speaking, they are much less inclined to do so, especially in terms of magnitude.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 21, 2009)

Ah but that's what female heroes in fantasy boil down to. Women who're suprisingly violent. I'm suggesting that such characters aren't completely divorced from reality 

Wasn't Vitari kicking Logen's ass for a while despite eventually losing. Seemed fairly realistic to me either which way it seems to me Ferro was reliant on knife throwing and archery using her blade only when denied other options. Fighting in such a way would certainly allow any suitably skilled normal women to fend of even the strongest men


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 22, 2009)

Finished _Last Argument With Kings_. The first half was much in the same vein as _Before they are Hanged_, solid and entertaining. By far the most compelling strain was that of northern stuff. Turns out 'crombie is brilliant at long-term planning too, and a lot of stuff in the earlier books suddenly makes sense.

Then the second part kicked in and...yeah.


----------



## Segan (Apr 22, 2009)

I told ya so, Ty. 

Got a favorite character?


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 22, 2009)

Now join us in the eager wait for his new book <3


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 22, 2009)

Segan said:


> I told ya so, Ty.
> 
> Got a favorite character?



Logen finally showed us why he deserves his name, and Glockta, as ever, was an interesting presence. My favourite is between either Severard (sp?) or West though.



Dream Brother said:


> Now join us in the eager wait for his new book <3



I've got that much to read in the meantime, hopefully time will fly by.


----------



## Segan (Apr 22, 2009)

Yes, yes, Best Served Cold will come in June (UK), so you can mark your calendars. And you should also know that he's also working on another stand-alone novel; 11k words or so are already written.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 22, 2009)

Probably gonna wait until the cheaper version comes out, since I'm not gonna pay an extra fiver just for a version that is just a bit larger.


----------



## Segan (Apr 22, 2009)

Tyrael said:


> Probably gonna wait until the cheaper version comes out, since I'm not gonna pay an extra fiver just for a version that is just a bit larger.


Excuse me?

replace Jiraiya with the Hyuuga trio.

You will be missing out some really awesome stuff.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 22, 2009)

When the smaller copy is released it will have more or less the same artwork. Alright, the wrap around bits won't be there, but that doesn't really bother since I won't really look at it anyway. Seems more complete too, if I have all of the books the same size.


----------



## Segan (Apr 23, 2009)

Bah, cheapskate.


----------



## Segan (Apr 25, 2009)

Exciting news or so he claims...

Hint: It's June 1st.

Halleluja.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Apr 25, 2009)

The day of the first exam. Major exams they are. Life changing. It would be utterly foolish to purchase BSC before i finish them. Foolish indeed.


----------



## Yulwei (Apr 25, 2009)

Still a month and a couple of days till it's out my burden has been reduced but it is still crushing


----------



## Segan (Apr 26, 2009)

The Bloody Nine said:


> The day of the first exam. Major exams they are. Life changing. It would be utterly foolish to purchase BSC before i finish them. Foolish indeed.


Yes, foolish it would be. :ho


----------



## Segan (Apr 28, 2009)

For anyone living in London: Abercrombie is attending a panel at sci-fi London on Sunday 3rd March at 11 o'clock.


----------



## Segan (May 1, 2009)

> Quote by *Joe Abercrombie*
> See how I _smoulder_. Look at the eyes, _the eyes_. Are you on _fire_ yet? *ARE YOU*?



He smoulders, indeed.


----------



## Yulwei (May 1, 2009)

I went and I checked the local Waterstones and they say that BSC is not coming out any earlier at their store. I am disappointed.


----------



## Segan (May 1, 2009)

Where do you live?


----------



## Tyrael (May 1, 2009)

Been a while since I laughed that hard. 'crombie's blogs are awesome.


----------



## Yulwei (May 1, 2009)

Segan said:


> Where do you live?



Currently England


----------



## Segan (May 10, 2009)

Apparently, our good ol' Joe will do a big-scale nationwide UK tour for Best Served Cold, possibly along with some people selling childrens and cancelling holidays.


----------



## Yulwei (May 15, 2009)

Visited another store and it seems they'll be selling it on the 1st of June so I'm feeling somewhat happier


----------



## Randomaxe (May 23, 2009)

I just finished The Blade Itself. I have to say this is what I like to read, third person narritive and a well spun tale. Going to start the next book right now.


----------



## Segan (May 24, 2009)

Welcome to the club, Random. Though, you do realize, that it's quite often a first-person narrative, right?


----------



## Randomaxe (May 24, 2009)

That the chapters are based on a subject as opposed to a single point of veiw is what I meant. I hate the way Ice and Fire is told. 

I guess this is what happens when you get old, I still don't know what i'm talking about.


----------



## Tyrael (May 24, 2009)

First person narrative in _The First Law_? I mean there is the thoughts of Glokta, but those sections are still third person. 

It's just been my b-day, so I have a bit of spare cash, and I just noticed that the hardbacks are being sold online for nine quid. I am tempted to pre-order a copy.


----------



## Segan (May 24, 2009)

What, am I the one who mixes things up then?

Then my head's more messed up than I thought


----------



## Tyrael (May 24, 2009)

'crombie writes solidly in third (unless BSC will be in 1st) so probably.

That said, the use of perspectives in ASoIaF is more or less the same as the way it is used in _The First Law_, so I'm still kinda confused.


----------



## Randomaxe (May 24, 2009)

What I was trying to explain what I disliked in ASoIaF, is the each chapter is dedicated to a single perspective like jon or arya. After reading those 4 books all the characters seemed to have the same intellect and voice. Not to mention, none of his characters are so memorable, that I care what happens to them.

While, TFL chapters explain it's world and people better in titled subjects with a lot less words. To it is more suprising and entertaining.


----------



## Segan (May 25, 2009)

It's good news anyway.


----------



## Randomaxe (May 27, 2009)

Just read, "Beneath the Ruins", and I got to say, that's the best chapter I've read this year. The Bloody Nine in full effect and it read like a poem. Great stuff.


----------



## Segan (May 28, 2009)

There will be more of Bloody Nine later on.

New blog plus another review.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (May 28, 2009)

You called ?

Anyhow - just posting to say HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Guess what i've got in front of me now motherfuckers :ho


----------



## Dream Brother (May 28, 2009)

TBN, it's already out? What, what, what?! Where? How? xdsfdsf

Oh, and randomaxe, your comments are interesting when considering that Abercrombie ironically cites Martin's work as one of the biggest influences upon his own stuff. From his blog:



> A Game of Thrones, and its sequels, seemed to bring to epic fantasy a huge amount of what I felt it had been desperately missing. There was relatively little debt to Tolkein (not that there's anything wrong with debt to Tolkein, it's just there's a shit-load of it around already). Martin's world was low on magic, low on romanticism, high on realism, very high on ruthlessness. There was no lame-ass, two-dimensional battle of good and evil. There were no lame-ass, two-dimensional characters. It was an (more or less) entirely human world, with man-made evils, very much like ours. The series was recognisably fantasy, it had enough that was familiar, but it was groundbreaking (at least for me) in all kinds of ways. Above all, the books were extremely unpredictable, especially in a genre where readers have come to expect the intensely predictable. Suddenly, from knowing what was going to happen from the first page and always being right, you found yourself with no idea who'd die next. Sudden main character deaths have become almost de rigeur in the genre since then, or at least in the grittier corners of it, but A Game of Thrones was profoundly shocking when I first read it, and fundamentally changed my notions about what could be done with epic fantasy.
> 
> It was also interesting from a technical standpoint - Martin uses the third person limited approach, as it's called, with the events always narrated from "inside the head", if you like, of one of the main characters. All the action is seen powerfully close up, coloured by the personality of the narrator. For me, fantasy went suddenly from being all about the huge, the spectacular, the sweeping wide shot (following on from Tolkein's approach) to being about the experience of individuals. You feel the sweat, the pain, the fear, the blood, you understand the motivations. You see how no-one is a villain in their own mind, even if they are in everyone else's. The great achievement of Martin's books, for me, is that they cover vast, epic, immense events, but never lose that sense of tight involvement with the characters. It wasn't a new approach in wider fiction - I guess Tolstoy was doing something similar in War and Peace - but it was the first time I'd seen it applied so rigorously and effectively in fantasy, and it seems now to have become pretty much the standard method of narration in the genre.



As far as I know, Abercrombie uses the same perspective system, too -- third-person limited. I'd have to go back and check though, as I read it a while ago now.

On another note, I saw a quote on writing by J. Michael Straczynski the other day, and it reminded me of one of the best things about Abercrombie's work:

_'I've tried to incorporate a kind of martial arts approach to storytelling where, rather than using your opponent's strength against them, you use the audience's expectations against themselves.'_

I think Abercrombie delights in doing the same, by toying with fantasy stereotypes, and that pays off in a big way in _Last Argument of Kings_.


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## The Bloody Nine (May 28, 2009)

Dream Brother said:


> TBN, it's already out? What, what, what?! Where? How? xdsfdsf



The Books Etc in Whitely's shopping centre, London. Though amazon and the Book Depository are already shipping so it should be arriving in bookshops/peoples houses today or tomorrow.


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## Segan (May 28, 2009)

Heh, if I hadn't too many unread books lying around here, I would've started with Martin's works already. Now to go and order a copy of BSC...


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## Dream Brother (May 28, 2009)

Right, I'm off to check a bookstore...


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## Tyrael (May 28, 2009)

Ordered my copy a couple of days ago, and, damn, hope you're right TBN.

Edit-No, I'm not going to get my copy 'till the 10th apparently. Damn it.


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## Randomaxe (May 29, 2009)

Dream Brother said:


> TBN, it's already out? What, what, what?! Where? How? xdsfdsf
> 
> Oh, and randomaxe, your comments are interesting when considering that Abercrombie ironically cites Martin's work as one of the biggest influences upon his own stuff. From his blog:
> 
> ...



That is quite interesting, but I still think Joe has surpassed his mentor. The third person limited aspect, it was hard to see the difference from a first person account, personally. It felt like I read the same description of Sansa from three points of view and still couldn't tell you what she looks like until A Feast for Crows. When Abercrombie did Logen's description, it was so visual that I could see it in my mind and knew exactly how he looked the first time. 

When he said Game of Thrones didn't have lame ass characters, Ned Stark was the first thing that popped in my mind, to be that honorable and straight forward that you don't take care of yourself, but to each his own I suppose. I've just recently read A Feast For Crows and just finished Before They are Hanged, they seem like night and day to me, pacing, description, predictability and realism. who doesn't know Jon Snow isn't Ned's son, or that he will eventually be riding a white dragon?


It may be, that I just like Abercrombie's story better.


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## Dream Brother (May 29, 2009)

Oh, no problem with that on my end -- I dig both authors. 

I'll even agree when it comes to _A Feast for Crows_ alone, as I felt that was Martin's weakest work.


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## Randomaxe (May 29, 2009)

I hope you don't think I hate Martin's work, it's good, I'm I just having a hard time buying it as great.


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## Dream Brother (May 29, 2009)

Aye, I know that Ty and Mattaru (just two examples) also have similar stances on Martin. Opinions on him vary a lot, but that's to be expected considering how famous he is within the genre -- I read his work before I had been exposed to the massive hype around him, so I guess that may have helped me enjoy it more.


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## The Bloody Nine (May 31, 2009)

I can assure you, BSC is as good as the reviewers made it out to be. Its also far more depressing. 

As cool as Monza Murcatto was ( and none of that Girl POWAH! caricature either  - she is a women who you can realistically see making it to the top of a man's world ) it was Friendly, Cosca and Shenkt who stole the show. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Shenkts fight scenes make Bloody Nine scenes look like they came out of a cut rate fantasy tv series. If enough people read this we're taking Shenkt to stomp the battledome.


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## Segan (Jun 2, 2009)

Right...but would you be so kind as to spoiler tag anything related to characters and plot? I haven't read it it yet.


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 2, 2009)

Segan said:


> Right...but would you be so kind as to spoiler tag anything related to characters and plot? I haven't read it it yet.



I didn't say anything that you wouldn't know up front but ill spoiler tag the second bit to make you happy.


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## Segan (Jun 2, 2009)

Thanks, I don't mean to be bitchy. But I haven't been able to get BSC yet, and I don't want to read anything related to its content in advance before I've read through the book.


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## Yulwei (Jun 2, 2009)

I should be getting it today damned store hadn't got it's delivery yesterday


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## Dream Brother (Jun 2, 2009)

As I said to Ty the other day...TBN is a lucky git. This wait is murdering me.


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## mislead (Jun 4, 2009)

Finished reading the trilogy a few days ago.

A pretty cool, and brutal deconstruction of the classical adventure-style fantasy tales. Some of the plotlines annoyed me (Jezal, and the fact that it didn't really amount to anything made it worse), and some stood out as a little over the top compared to Abercrombie's overall low-key approach (Glokta, as entertaining as he was), but I do understand their significance and the reason they needed to be that way. I liked the cynical sense of humor present in the narration, although it did feel out of place every now and then.

My main gripe was the uninspired worldbuilding effort. I understand that Abercrombie doesn't like the idea of worldbuilding itself, but, in the end, he seemed to have gone down the path of least resistance.

Overall though, the characterisations were very good, the plot was original and well-planned, and the books were remarkably well-paced for an inexperienced author. Looking forward to anything Abercrombie might produce in the future.

Flame away.


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## Tyrael (Jun 4, 2009)

This is going to sound rather strange, but I actually thought Jezal was pretty central to the story and themes. Logen, as enjoyable as his perspective was, was the one who seemed the most unnecessary. I agree that Glockta and his capers were a bit cartoonish, but, frankly, I just loved him the more for it.

I semi-agree with your points about world-building. I'll elaborate once I figure out what I actually mean by that.


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## Dream Brother (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm not big on world-building, so it never bothered me. I also think the cartoonish, over the top style was mostly intended -- Abercrombie seems to love conjuring up a sort of macabre humour that permeates his stuff. Cool to hear that you enjoyed it.


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## mislead (Jun 4, 2009)

Spoilering, just to be on the safe side.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm not complaining about Jezal's relevance to the plot, I'm complaining about his blandness. Normally, his archetype, the "boy grows up and becomes a man", is entertaining because, even though the character might be a boring, ignorant, spoiled brat at the beginning, he eventually does grow into someone respectable. Abercrombie decided to subvert this archetype by keeping most of Jezal's weaknessess intact throughout his development (and thereby reinforcing the "people don't change" theme). This, while undoubtedly more realistic, took away the positive aspect of the whole process.

Glokta just stood out amongst all the deconstruction. Abercrombie went to great lengths to establish himself a bunch of fantasy cliches - the berserking barbarian, the wise and powerful mentor, the arrogant upstart kid, and so on; then he followed them to their logical conclusions in a fairly realistic manner. Thus, the friendly barbarian actually suffered the consequences his murderous alter-ego brought upon him; the wise mentor saw everyone as a tool towards his end, and had nothing but contempt towards normal people (as one would expect from someone fighting a 1000 year war); the kid started as a weak, ignorant coward, and a coward he remained. Glokta, on the other hand, didn't represent any archetype I'm familiar with, and was basically the complete opposite of what a person would be like after 2 years of confinement and torture. Then again, if he were to be portrayed realistically, he'd be universally hated as a character...


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## Lucaniel (Jun 4, 2009)

So, Abercrombie's not allowed to have one character that doesn't fit/subvert archetypes just because the others follow that pattern?

Glokta's physical weakness, constant pains and bitterness were portrayed very accurately, I thought, and the whole idea of what someone might be after his ordeal depends quite a bit on the person themselves, and is too subjective to complain about how x was "unrealistic".

You know, it was about more than just being a slap in the face of tropes, so I don't see why an original character is so bad.


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## mislead (Jun 4, 2009)

Hey, I found Glokta very entertaining, and well-characterised, both through his physical condition, and his cynical inner monologue. I just think that a badass, cynical cripple is a pretty unlikely result of what happened to him. Impossible? Nope, but still unlikely.

To put this whole thing into perspective, imagine Jezal (whom Glotka often compares to a younger version of himself) living through two years in that dungeon. Would you honestly expect him to emerge as a badass anti-hero Inquisitor? Because I'd expect a complete wreck of a man, with scarcely any will to live, and a host of anxieties and phobias. 

This isn't really a criticism, just an observation. I actually find it amusing that the most cynical character in the series is depicted in a romanticized fashion.


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## Dream Brother (Jun 4, 2009)

That's an interesting stance, actually -- this is the first time I've seen it expressed, and it got me thinking. Personally, I don't see it as an unlikely scenario. When I read the books I always assumed that the 'badass, cynical' Inquisitor was simply the powerful fa?ade for the 'wreck of a man'. It reminds me of Tyrion's dialogue in _A Game of Thrones_, a book that heavily influenced Abercrombie:

_"Let me give you some counsel, bastard," Lannister said. "Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you."_

I find it realistic that one would armour themselves in this fashion -- I would go as far as to suggest that he's an idealist at heart, rather than a cynic.


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## Segan (Jun 5, 2009)

Glokta most likely only compared Jezal to his younger self because of Jezal's lifestyle. In personality they probably differed quite a bit. Playing cards and fuck around with women is something a lot of noblemen are going to have in common, after all, but they don't have to be of similar character.


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## Yulwei (Jun 5, 2009)

So far as I recall Glokta was actually better than Jezal he was far more focused on being a great fencer and won through his own skill and he was a far superior soldier.


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 6, 2009)

So i went to the book signing yesterday. First book signing ever. It was pretty cheesy actually. 

Joe gave this little speech and while i can't remember what he said i do remember there was one point where he compared himself to Frodo and did a rather horrible, cringe worthy impression of Sam's northern accent. I then waited for forty five minutes in line so that Joe could say a few words and scribble my name and his into the book. 

I have decided that i will never go to a book signing again.  

But then my night took a turn for the better when i recognized a few people from another board i frequent and we decided to go to a nearby pub for drinks.

And guess who should grace us with his presence fifteen minutes later ? 

Joe's a pretty cool guy. He asked me what i thought of the books and i told him i was a major fan. He asked me if i had any questions and i just sort of froze for a second and then i said the first thing that came to mind. "Who would win in a fight - the North or Styria ?" 

Yes yes, i need to stay away from the battledome, and yes it was a stupid fanboy question but it got a few laughs at least. But surprisingly enough it also got an answer - he said  Styria would probably win because they have more people and better technology. So there.

Then my brain kicked in and i asked him proper questions. He let slip that as the magic was leaking from this world the Magi where getting steadily weaker and that Eating was becoming the major route to power. 

He also said that Eating different things gave different powers and certain types of Eaters could only be killed in their own unique way. 

He told me his next book would be a standalone and would be set in the north and he also said Black Dow, Dogman and Shivers would feature in it. 

We also discussed the merits of the phrase "Suck a cunt" to much amusement. 

The rest of the time we spent praising The Wire in all its fiction-dwarfing glory.  

So yeah; a great night all things considered.


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## Lord Yu (Jun 6, 2009)

More excited obscenities. Holy fucking Shit.


But seriously, I need to rent The Wire. I have long standing issue with premium cable shows as I only have basic cable in my room.


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## Tyrael (Jun 6, 2009)

That is seriously fucking cool likes. I need to hunt down some authors at the edinburgh book festival and try to have something of a chat with them.


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## Dream Brother (Jun 7, 2009)

I greatly enjoyed _Best Served Cold_. Abercrombie really does have a gift when it comes to introducing characters and making you care about them -- you may love them, find them funny, hate them, but you always react to them strongly in some fashion. He's also managed to craft a refreshingly riveting female character as a protagonist, which is something I find it difficult to come across in fiction, let alone in the fantasy genre. He takes supporting characters from his earlier books and transforms them into far more complex, interesting entities. You also see his classic skill at misdirection on full display -- there's one chapter in particular that set me up well and then artfully tripped me up. The pacing is, as usual, excellent, and the book is in no way a clone of his earlier efforts. I think the end didn't hit me quite as hard as I had expected it would, but ultimately it was a real pleasure to read.


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## Yulwei (Jun 7, 2009)

If Eating is the new way to power I reckon Bayaz better start eating. Khalul is already an Eater unless my memory decieves me and 
*Spoiler*: __ 



has still got some of his Words alive and retaining a measure of their power


 whereas Bayaz only has Yoru. The odds seem tipped in Khalul's favour unless Bayaz can use the Seed without Ferro and without all the prep he needed to use it the first time


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 8, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> If Eating is the new way to power I reckon Bayaz better start eating. Khalul is already an Eater unless my memory decieves me and
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




Read BSC. We learn that Bayaz has a few more experiments that we didn't know about.


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## Yulwei (Jun 8, 2009)

I just finished it. When I posted I was only halfway through but the experiment in question seems more like a failure than a success and it isn't implied that he made any other attempts


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 9, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> I just finished it. When I posted I was only halfway through but the experiment in question seems more like a failure than a success and it isn't implied that he made any other attempts



I disagree. We know that he can induce the episodes externally from when he made Jezal win against Groust and we know the Bloody Nine can do something similiar. 

I think Bayaz is still working on this or his fight with Khalul just wouldn't make sense. 

Also what did you think of BSC ?


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## Yulwei (Jun 9, 2009)

Well it seems to me that Khalul has access to the wealth of Ghurkul's goldmines whereas Bayaz has the finances of Valint and Balk now I'm fairly certain that a multinational bank would probably have more money than a single nation. Furthermore who knows what other tricks Bayaz might have aquired from the Master Maker and studying Glustrod's methods. 

EDIT: Bayaz was either utterly exhuasted or on the brink of death whenever he used any significant magic. The biggest thing he did on his own effortlessly was blowing up the Inquisitor everything was either with the Seed, one of Kanedias' tools or required him to practically kill himself.

It was pretty good bettter than any single book in the first trilogy but in comparison to the entire trilogy I'd say it falls short. This is to be expected though since characters can't be developed to the same extent in one book as they can in 3. Finally there weren't any great standout characters in this book like Glokta and Logen the best of them were only about as interesting as Ferro or Jezel in other words not very but possessed of some redeeming attributes or made more interesting by virtue of how they interact with other characters.

I was told they'd be more world building in this book but the discriptions of places, apparel and suchlike seem just as vague as they ever did although he seems to have steamed up his sex scenes and the violence seems somewhat gorier.


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## Segan (Jun 16, 2009)

All right, new blog post. More reviews for BSC.

And my copy still hasn't arrived yet


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## Yulwei (Jun 16, 2009)

Personally I don't think it's much of a spoiler but I reckon I might as well be considerate


*Spoiler*: __ 



If you ask me this book had a far happier ending than the trilogy. Sure it wasn't generic happy ending but it was still far from the plot twist he pulled in LAoK. I don't know if I like it or hate it. It's good because he doesn't become the twist guy but at the same time I'm a big fan of the everybody dies or nobody wins type scenario




Either everybody is nose deep in the book or their coming out of the high of reading it because I expected more fan reviews and discussion


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 16, 2009)

I would discuss it with you but i just don't want to call down the wrath of Segan on my head. And i'll agree that as far as numbers go this had a happier ending, but the moral decay of a certain character made this story a lot more darker and depressing for me than TFL.


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## Dream Brother (Jun 16, 2009)

> but the moral decay of a certain character made this story a lot more darker and depressing for me than TFL.



Yep. My exact thoughts.


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## Yulwei (Jun 17, 2009)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Personally I don't look at it as moral decay so much as Shiver's discovering his true nature. The fact is he was fooling himself all along and trying tp put a pleasant spin on his own nature. In time his true nture would have shown itself interacting with Monza and getting his eye burnt out merely sped the process up. If anybody really suffered moral decay it was Monza herself because it was shown that she was a good person inside who acted evil to keep up appearances and was led into doing true evil by her more twisted brother. So Monza equals good acting evil and Shivers equals evil acting good. In the end both revealed  their true nature.

As much as I liked Monza I couldn't help feeling that Joe just took Ferro dusted her off added a few things and substracted the more obvious similarities and wham bam you have Monza. It's pretty clear to anyone that Ferro was far from being the most fully realised character in the 1st Law. Reading this book I got the sense that I was reading Ferro's story but with a differant face. I suppose the simliraties aren't all that great to an objective viewer both want vengeance on the leader of their nation, both have/had barbarian lovers and both try to distance themselves from others. I am alas not a particularly objective viewer.


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 17, 2009)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Yulwei said:


> Personally I don't look at it as moral decay so much as Shiver's discovering his true nature. The fact is he was fooling himself all along and trying tp put a pleasant spin on his own nature. In time his true nture would have shown itself interacting with Monza and getting his eye burnt out merely sped the process up. If anybody really suffered moral decay it was Monza herself because it was shown that she was a good person inside who acted evil to keep up appearances and was led into doing true evil by her more twisted brother. So Monza equals good acting evil and Shivers equals evil acting good. In the end both revealed  their true nature.



I don't look at it like that at all. I think Shivers had the same problem as Logen - environment. I don't think i even believe in this "true" nature stuf either. For example when Logen was in a "softer" civilized world he was a much more pleasant person, Jezal honestly believes Logen is the best man he knows. But when he went back North the old Logen came back out. These are both two very real sides to Logen. 

Same with Shivers.I don't think he particularly enjoys murder, and the new Shivers doesn't seem to enjoy much of anything, but he is certainly very good at it. Its the only trade he knows and the only trade he could bring to Styria where war is fought with a whole lot less honour. If Shivers had instead chosen to go to the union, then he would have probably made a good living as black smith or as the aide to the northern ambassador.   

And Monza is an incestuous killer who was to weak to stop following her brothers evil actions. Better than Cosca who is almost perfectly immoral but not that much in my opinion. 



Yulwei said:


> As much as I liked Monza I couldn't help feeling that Joe just took Ferro dusted her off added a few things and substracted the more obvious similarities and wham bam you have Monza. It's pretty clear to anyone that Ferro was far from being the most fully realised character in the 1st Law. Reading this book I got the sense that I was reading Ferro's story but with a differant face. I suppose the simliraties aren't all that great to an objective viewer both want vengeance on the leader of their nation, both have/had barbarian lovers and both try to distance themselves from others. I am alas not a particularly objective viewer.



I completely disagree. Monza had moods, and she had wants and she had needs. She had a past and a realistic ourney to the present.  Monza was three dimensional character.

Ferro was all about the vengeance, anything else was just postponing that. Her life story consisted of happy past > village burnt down and made a whore > vengeance. No idea what the happy past involved, no thought as to how she was gonna achieve the vengeance. Just vengeance. Completely 1 dimensional in my opinion.


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## Yulwei (Jun 17, 2009)

*Spoiler*: __ 



That's my point Monza seems like what Joe was going for with Ferro but more fully realised. Basically Ferro seems to me to be the skeleton upon which the character that is Monza hangs.  In addition if you follow Ferro's path to vengeance to it's logical conclusion she'll either wind up dead or in exactly the same position Monza now finds herself in. Anyway as Ferro was far from the focus of the book and wasn't exactly big on telling stories nor did people really enjoy the path her stories went down it's not all that suprising we didn't learn that much about her. 

Jezal was one dimensional but grew after his injury. Logen was multidimensional and we learnt about him from him describing himself and his crew describing him. As I pointed out Ferro wasn't keen on describing herself and people weren't all that interested in learning more about her. As for a crew so far as we know all her supposed friends are dead or are as ignorant of her as Bayaz's motley gang was for the same reasons. To put it simply Ferro wasn't even explored so she appears more one dimensional than she actually is.

As for Shivers you're right that situation has an effect but as far as I'm concerned your situation merely helps draw out who you truly are or help you deny who you truly are. Logen went Bloody Nine in Adua just as easily as he went Bloody Nine in the North it's just he needed to do it more in the North than he did in Adua. So far as I can see Logen is essentially a somewhat nice guy for whom violence comes much too easily. As there was less need for violence when he was with Jezal then Jezal would merely think him a nice guy. Logen's crew didn't hate him for what he did while he was sensible but for what he did when he was the Bloody Nine. The fact that he is the Bloody Nine forces him when he's sensible to either make amends for what he did or take the props for it. He chose the latter more often than not because it allowed him to lead his men through fear.

Styria forced Shivers to acknowledge who he was something which he ran away from when confronted by Logen the man on whom he had vowed vengeance. Personally I think he either saw himself in Logen and wanted to avoid becoming him or alternatively he didn't fancy getting his face smashed in. If Shivers had gone to Adua he'd probably never have had to confront himself and see what his true nature was. Let's not kid ourselves Shivers had more than enough opportunities to leave Monza but remained because he knew he was good at what she needed him to do and he was greedy maybe he loved her but those feelings came and went like rain in the desert.


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 18, 2009)

*Spoiler*: __ 





I really don't see it. The only similarities between them is Women who where wronged and out for revenge. I guess the reason we can't see eye to eye on this is because you believe Ferro is a fully realized character and i don't. You think she has a deeper story and more of a character but i just don't see it. I mean its not just the stories they have that make up the person, its how they think. Look at Glokta widely considered to be the most popular character in the book, his story is just as simplistic as Ferro's and he tortures people for gods sake, but he reflects and muses and he makes awesome jokes. Ferro doesn't. She's just angry and anti-social ALL the time, she has only one speed, i just can't see anything more than that. Maybe those with Devil Blood think differently then normal Humans do. 

And when i follow the road of Ferro's vengence to its logical conclusion i see her opening the gate to hell - you really think she is strong enough now to take out Khalul ?

All you say about the Bloody Nine is true, but we also know that Logen himself is not nice at all. There is Old Logen who kills at the drop of a hat, breaks oaths and butchers his way to glory at the expense of peace in the North. Then there is New Logen who isn't too different when you think about it - hyper pragmatic "the first thing we do when we get back to the north is crush all resistance", there is the way he always chases battles and war and finally there is that graveyard scene at the end where he admits the death of Tul Duru and the Kid doesn't faze him any more. IMO Logen is like the unfunny version of Cosca, he's a pretty swell guy once you know him in peace time but he doesn't really give a shit about you or anyone else and he doesn't know anything except the battlefield. Finally, how people see you is also important in determining who you are and we know that Shivers sees Logen, not the Bloody Nine, as the hardest man he has ever met. 



Yulwei said:


> Styria forced Shivers to acknowledge who he was something which he ran away from when confronted by Logen the man on whom he had vowed vengeance. Personally I think he either saw himself in Logen and wanted to avoid becoming him or alternatively he didn't fancy getting his face smashed in. If Shivers had gone to Adua he'd probably never have had to confront himself and see what his true nature was. Let's not kid ourselves Shivers had more than enough opportunities to leave Monza but remained because he knew he was good at what she needed him to do and he was greedy maybe he loved her but those feelings came and went like rain in the desert.



Strangely enough i honestly believe Shivers really loved her. We know he had more than a little touch of the romantic and Monza filled in the role of the beautiful princess in need almsot as well as he fit in the role of the Knight in shin serviceable and sturdy armour. 

I also think we are underestimating the effect Logen had on Shivers. The guy was the single most successful and storied killer in the history of the North and Styria gave Shivers the opportunity to become like that also, its no wonder he choose that instead of following the path of his savage drunkard father.


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## Yulwei (Jun 18, 2009)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I said either she'll die or she'll end up where Monza is. If it were only Uthman I could see her winning but with Khalul and his Eaters I see him either ignoring her entirely because she's incapable of doing him any real harm or crushing her with overwhelming force just to get her out of the way. Depends if Ferro can gather some powerful alies or not in addition Bayaz might decide to aid her on the sly since she is essentially a thorn in his enemy's side.

It's not that I believe Ferro is fully realised it's that I think Joe planted enough hints that had she recieved more screen time or been the focus of the story like Monza she'd have been a much richer character. Monza is in my opinion Ferro given the chance to shine. Maybe I'm just biased in Ferro's favour and I've taken an incomplete character and imagined into much more than they are


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## Lord Yu (Jun 18, 2009)

Rar! I can't stand it! I want BSC! 

At least I have a bunch of other books to keep me company.


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## Segan (Jun 19, 2009)

HOOO-FUCKING-RAY!

My hardback copy of BSC arrived. The cover looks just lovely. Can't be reading it for the remainder of this week, though.
So please, keep on spoilertagging when you discuss BSC, will ya? o__<


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## Mori` (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm about 3/4 of the way through _the blade itself_...suffice to say I'm desperately hoping my order for the next 2 comes in tomorrow so I can continue reading without having to break off or slow down!


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## Segan (Jul 14, 2009)

Gotta bump it again. Was busy with other stuff and so...

Apparently, there's gonna be a Week's Bane or something, I didn't quite understand. Anyway, it's another funny blog.

And I do hope, you enjoyed The First Law trilogy, mori. Best Served Cold will entertain you just as much.


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## Tyrael (Jul 14, 2009)

Brent Weeks is another fantasy author-apparently both of them are going to be debating here.

But this is the funniest 'crombie has been in a while.



> Nice shirt, by the way. I think MY GRANDAD HAD ONE.


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## Segan (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, I found that line funny, too. ^^


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## Mori` (Jul 17, 2009)

well, I finished LAoK today and feel somewhat underwhelmed. Not really sure why, there were a lot of things I've liked in the books, but the last sort of 300 pages left me feeling somewhat flat. Not sure if I'll read BSC now.


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## Tyrael (Jul 17, 2009)

It was definitely a dangerous route for him to take-a lot of people have felt that it was a bit too much.

Funnily enough, it was the last half of the book that really justified the acclaim to me. Raised him from highly entertaining to just downright awesome. I could see how it might feel  alienating though.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 18, 2009)

The end left me off balance too. Over time I've come to really admire it though -- it's such an interesting way to close a trilogy. Just seems to reinforce that sense of life as an endless cycle, and that in reality things are rarely resolved perfectly. The last segment of the book also seemed to complete the process of unearthing things the reader had taken for granted earlier in the series. At a point in the narrative where most writers would be settling down and aiming for a languid curtain close, we almost get the exact opposite in the form of revelations and further violence. I expected him to tie it all up in a neat ribbon, and I got a cynical cuff over the head instead -- good old Abercrombie.


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## Tyrael (Jul 18, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _an apt description of the end of the trilogy_ 





> It's a gripping read, but so sordid I had to throw it out. It's not only a downer book with no good guys, like its predecessor, but it takes the evil to a new, more personal level.
> 
> One can only focus on the unfiltered baseness of humanity for so long before it transcends morbid fascination and weighs down one's spirit. This book should not be read.



A review for the second book in the _Black Company_ series, but it covers the end of the _First Law_ pretty well I think.


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## Lord Yu (Jul 19, 2009)

I got the last copy of Best Served Cold.
Nice hardcover so I don't have to deal with mediocre US cover art.

Coincidentally, I was looking at the Second Black Company book today. I have first three in an omnibus.


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## Segan (Jul 24, 2009)

MORE BLOG!


America's finally catching up....in what, actually?
George R.R. Martin made my day.
Something about Radio and...a blog duel?

Note: Check out the blog "duel" between Joe and Brent.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 26, 2009)

Abercrombie's own thoughts on the ending to _First Law_:



> It’s not that I don’t believe in happy endings at all – I cry like a baby at the opening credits of It’s a Wonderful Life, let alone the ending – I just think there are a lot of them out there, and I wanted, if possible, to do something slightly different. A lot of fantasy stories feel very contained, I wanted a sense of real life about the trilogy, that the characters had histories before, and that their lives (in most cases) continued afterwards. So the ending isn’t happy, or even neatly tragic, it’s ragged, difficult, hopefully thought-provoking. Some people aren’t going to like it, but then the aim of writing isn’t necessarily to please the biggest number. Or so I tell myself between my sobs.
> 
> As for human nature, well, I’m not entirely cynical. But when it comes to my fiction, I do like a bit of dark in there.


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## Segan (Jul 26, 2009)

He did say that in one of his blogs, didn't he?


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## Dream Brother (Jul 26, 2009)

Not sure if he put it in his blog or not, but I got it from here:


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## Tyrael (Jul 26, 2009)

Listenin' to the man himself atm.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 26, 2009)

This show is great so far, really funny with some interesting debate too.


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## Mori` (Aug 2, 2009)

So...I was a bit frustrated with my experience of the last book, because really when I thought about the series and the writing as a whole I struggled to fault it. With that in mind I re-read the last book, and I have to say I'm much happier now with what Abercrombie did.

I may even buy BSC this week.


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## Dream Brother (Aug 2, 2009)

I wasn't the biggest fan of the BSC ending, so not sure how you'd take to it. The book as a whole was lovely though, really enjoyed it. 

I know Yu didn't like the rampant cynicism, but I think Abercrombie pulled it off well. Hell, I think Martin is more of a literary sadist than Abercrombie.


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## Mori` (Aug 2, 2009)

xD

Yu did just dampen my enthusiasm for bsc =p


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## Lord Yu (Aug 2, 2009)

I just think Abercrombie's being hamfisted. The cynicism lacks any corrupting subtlety. It's like everyone's got a tremendous stick up the ass. Everything feels silly when everyone is openly evil. I know honesty is usually a good thing in literature but this much naked villainy seems cartoonish. It felt like he was doing it all just for the meaningless shock. All the loathing everyone directs at each other and themselves just makes me loath everyone in it. I've been pushed beyond the willing suspension of disbelief. 

I'll probably have a full rant when I'm finished. I'm near the end and I'm just pretty disgusted. I loved The First Law Trilogy, but this...I just don't know.


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## Yulwei (Aug 29, 2009)

Well aside from Jezal nobody really thought of themselves as hero in the First Law and it turns out that he was simply being manipulated and he was really a nothing after all.

Anyway Joe's announced his next entitled The Heroes

Sarutobi Asuma

The book sounds interesting but I can't say I like that I'll have a year plus wait before I can read it


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## Lord Yu (Aug 29, 2009)

Even though I found BSC nauseating I'll still read Abercombie's next book.


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## Yulwei (Aug 29, 2009)

The book was about vengeance and everybody who joined her considered money more important than the stability of Styria I can't see how you expected these people to be anything but villains. Heck it was lucky that Monza became the leader at the end because if everything had gone according to plan she'd have thrown Styria into chaos greater than it suffered before she started working for Orsea.


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## Lord Yu (Aug 29, 2009)

It wasn't really even the vengeance. It's just that everyone was so utterly pathetic.


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## Yulwei (Aug 29, 2009)

To join her considering what that would do to Styria you have to admit you'd have to be desperate or deranged and guess what that's what she got. The misfits she assembled spark me as the only sort of people who'd ever have signed up for the fools errand it seemed like when she proposed it. 

I admit BSC wasn't as good as The 1st Law but I put that down to it being a story told in one book rather than 3. Add to that the fact that Abercrombie was working on The 1st Law since he was a kid and worked on BSC after he'd poured out all his childhood fantasies on his first work


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## Dream Brother (Sep 2, 2009)

New cover.

I prefer the original, personally.


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## Tyrael (Sep 2, 2009)

Yeah.

I'm gonna just go so far as to say it looks crap. I doubt I would have given it a second glance in the shops.


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## Yulwei (Sep 2, 2009)

Too clean and too pretty. Can't wait to see how they bastardise Glokta


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## Lord Yu (Sep 2, 2009)

Is that supposed to be Logen? WTF? Why they do this? Why?


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## Tyrael (Sep 2, 2009)

They want to lure in the generic fantasy crowd. It's still pretty damn massive: people like Jordan and Goodkind outsell 'crombie by a huge margin.


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## Lord Yu (Sep 2, 2009)

Do the generic fantasy crowd actually like atrocities like that?


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## Tyrael (Sep 2, 2009)

Whoever is in charge of the marketing thinks so. Whilst I am a fan of a lot of generic fantasy, though, it just makes me shudder.


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## Lord Yu (Sep 2, 2009)

I like to imagine those people are blind. It helps me see reason in this world.


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## Tyrael (Sep 2, 2009)

You on a backlash against cynicism ever since _BSC_?


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## Segan (Sep 3, 2009)

Lol, is that Viggo Mortensen in the new cover? Nothing against him personally, he's a good actor, but as Logen?


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## Segan (Sep 3, 2009)

Yulwei said:


> Well aside from Jezal nobody really thought of themselves as hero in the First Law and it turns out that he was simply being manipulated and he was really a nothing after all.
> 
> Anyway Joe's announced his next entitled The Heroes
> 
> ...


I think, this one is going to be better than BSC. While I enjoyed the latest book, I admit that the cynicism and grittiness were quite over the top a few times too many.

A whole book about 3 days on a battlefield through a single battle sounds like a rollercoaster riding backwards at full speed. Of course, if Joe plays on his strengths from the First Law.


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## Lord Yu (Sep 3, 2009)

Tyrael said:


> You on a backlash against cynicism ever since _BSC_?



No, I just favor balance. BSC asked too much of my suspension of disbelief.


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## Tyrael (Sep 3, 2009)

A story about three days on a battlefield in which no battle takes place? Shit, that sounds like the kind of story I would love to write. He's stealing my ideas before I even have a chance to think them up.

The bastard.


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## Segan (Sep 3, 2009)

Tyrael said:


> A story about three days on a battlefield in which no battle takes place? Shit, that sounds like the kind of story I would love to write. He's stealing my ideas before I even have a chance to think them up.
> 
> The bastard.


What do you mean "no battle"? Joe says the exact opposite. Are you trying to deceive me?


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## Tyrael (Sep 3, 2009)

Hold on a moment...Ah, I misread it. The entire thing takes place during a battle. Woops.


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## Batman (Sep 6, 2009)

He sure is a man whose good at crafting a daunting sense of hopelessness. I look forward to the book, The Heroes. Hopefully it will curve a bit of that. Or it might leave my attitude towards humanity utterly shattered.


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## Tyrael (Jan 6, 2010)

That's Glokta.

Yeah.


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## Yulwei (Jan 6, 2010)

Once again too pretty by far. He implied that this one would be better but once again we get battered and broken characters being made over into the sort of people who make ladies swoon with a glance. If this is pre-torture Glokta then fine but if it's post it fails as hard as the first one did


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## Segan (Jan 6, 2010)

Yeah, that cover is bullshit. But well, what can you do...


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## Tyrael (Jan 6, 2010)

Well, I can understand the purpose of the covers. Trying to attract a more mainstream audience to 'Crombie isn't a bad thing. These terrible covers are really a lesser evil I guess when you consider they are pulling in newer fans.

Doesn't mean I won't wince when I see them though.


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## Dream Brother (Jan 6, 2010)

I've seen far worse covers, but that definitely isn't how I pictured Glokta.


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## Tyrael (Jan 25, 2010)

Just finished _Best Served Cold_. Despite my misgivings (and I've not actually got many of them) 'twas a very good book.


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## Yulwei (May 22, 2010)

I recently purchased the First Law trilogy after having read it in the library and on my fourth read through I noticed a few things I didn't notice before: 
1. Interacting with the Seed made Bayaz younger which suggests to me that his art has received something of a boost. 
2. Yulwei seems to have performed all his magic effortlessly not suffering fainting spells, the shakes and such things after using his art. This suggests that he was stronger than current Bayaz even if he was weaker than Prime Bayaz
3. Tolomoei was changed by the Seed but didn't become the monster she appeared to be until she returned to life having been killed. I believe Mamun actually killed Ferro when he was strangling her but my brother suggests in the struggles of her dying breath she tapped into her altered nature.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 10, 2010)

just finished BSC.

gotta say, I wish abercrombie had found someone other than Shivers to fuck over completely this round. after the gigantic mess at the end of LAoK, it was nice to think that at least one of the likeable characters involved hadn't either died for nothing or lived after suffering a breakdown of morals. funny that he basically got out of black dow's little power play and wound with a female black dow who screwed him over even worse and left him with a ruined face, one eye and a ruby ring in place of payment.

the misleading double sex scene following the battle at Ospyria was funny as hell, though, in a black way. i thought it had all worked out all right, and then i realised who was with who...really would've expected better of even Murcatto, though.

triple helpings of irony here were good, but shivers got fucked over too badly for me to really like it, and murcatto did too well out of it, too. i'm pretty damn curious about Shenkt - wonder if he'll get any exposition later on. and the whole bit with him being the father of vitari's children was nearly too weird - i actually checked the text a few times to make sure there wasn't a misprint somewhere.


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## Yulwei (Aug 10, 2010)

Shivers made his choices he should live with the consequences. If you want to talk about being unfairly screwed over then the only person who fits the bill is Collem West.

Here's an excerpt from his new book The Heroes [due January 2011]:


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## Dream Brother (Aug 10, 2010)

Rough version of the UK cover for his upcoming book:

(Just noticed that you can see the same pic in Yul's post above, haha. Ah well, may as well leave this here, as it's the big version.)


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## Lucaniel (Aug 11, 2010)

Yulwei said:


> Shivers made his choices he should live with the consequences. If you want to talk about being unfairly screwed over then the only person who fits the bill is Collem West.
> 
> Here's an excerpt from his new book The Heroes [due January 2011]:



West was badly screwed over himself, worse than Shivers, but that doesn't mean Shivers deserved what happened to him.

ahaha, the moment i recognised Gorst from the description, Hugo Stiglitz's theme riff from Inglourious Basterds started playing in my head.


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## Yulwei (Aug 11, 2010)

He knew he was going back on how he'd promised to live his life because he found it easier. He had opportunities to opt out and leave but he refused each and every one of them.


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## Segan (Aug 11, 2010)

Dream Brother said:


> Rough version of the UK cover for his upcoming book:
> 
> (Just noticed that you can see the same pic in Yul's post above, haha. Ah well, may as well leave this here, as it's the big version.)


So far Abercrombie's original UK covers are among the very best I've seen. Can't wait to read his newest book.


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## Yulwei (Sep 3, 2010)

Yet another extract from The Heroes. This one takes places during a battle and I have to say Joe looks to have outdone himself:


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## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2010)

> Wetterlant wanted to tell him not to scream in a manner so unbefitting of an officer in the King’s Own.  A scream like that might be good enough for one of the levy regiments, but in the Sixth he expected a manly roar.



ahahaha

though overall it seems he's a bit off his game, this hasn't got the same black humour and easy flow i expect from abercrombie.

well, except for Gorst - that was good shit.


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## Yulwei (Sep 3, 2010)

Really, I might think differently when I've read the whole thing but based on the 2 extracts it seems to flow better than BSC


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## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2010)

i wouldn't say so, BSC's Morveer chapters were some of the best Abercrombie's written. And if you're looking for the whole noble-soldier-pissing-pants-at-battle stuff, he covered that ground better with Jezal. and nowhere in there are there fights as good as those involving Shenkt or Logen.


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## Yulwei (Sep 3, 2010)

Shenkt was a touch too extreme for me. Personally, I didn't like Morveer all that much and found of the two humerous characters in BSC Cosca was the far more interesting and hilarious probably because he was less condescending. As for the battle since it's not one on one or one against many I won't compare it to Logen or Shenkt's fights. Compared to the Gurkish invasion and the war in the North I find the style in which this battle is described more interesting than those even if the stakes of the battle are far less high.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2010)

yeah, the point wasn't to _like_ Morveer. he was a vain, shallow, self-centred and egotistical piece of shit who deceived himself every waking minute, and that came across brilliantly. that's my point. he wrote an unlikeable, but believably unlikeable character well. you could believe people as empty as morveer exist easily, and it was funny to see things through his twisted worldview.


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## Yulwei (Sep 3, 2010)

Akainu, Bourbon Kid or Glokta I much prefer a bastard I like, grudgingly or otherwise, to a plain old bastard. That being said if his intention was to create an unlikeable bastard then he succeeded with Morveer.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 3, 2010)

well, i personally found him hilarious, if only unintentionally (on his part, not on abercrombie's).

and poisoning the crown _was_ an inspired move.

but true, Glokta is better.


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## Spartacus (Jan 2, 2011)

Just adding myself to the fanbase in this thread. Just got into part II of book three...

So far I've avoided spoiling myself, but I have my suspicions about how it will end.... Lessee if they are somewhat correct.


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## Spartacus (Jan 4, 2011)

Allright, finished the damn trilogy....did not totally expect that. What a ride. I hope Abercrombie expands on the future of some of the main characters later on.


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## Dudemancool (Jan 9, 2011)

New around these parts, but read TFL trilogy bout a year ago, loved it, and just finished BSC. Loved it of course, but I forgot how damn depressing Abercrombie could be. In the end everyones' a victim.


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## Dream Brother (Feb 4, 2011)

I didn't even realise that _The Heroes_ had been released...must pick it up soon.


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## masamune1 (Feb 4, 2011)

I've seen _The First Law_ in Waterstones on a 3 for 2 offer and I'm unsure whether or not I should buy them. 

I'm not asking for anyone's opinion because I know you are all going to say "yes". I just felt the need to say it.


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## LifeMaker (Feb 4, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I didn't even realise that _The Heroes_ had been released...must pick it up soon.



yeah it's pretty goodm has some awesome characters. Whirrun of Bligh is pretty damn cool for one... 

Plus some old favourites are back on show


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## masamune1 (Feb 10, 2011)

Abercrombie is in Glasgow Waterstones right now, If I chose to wait up there a few hours longer, I could have met him.

Not that I give a damn. I still have'nt decided whether or not to buy his books.


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## Aruarian (Feb 10, 2011)

Do                it.


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## Dash (Feb 10, 2011)

What is the better series? The Farseer or First Law? Trying to decide on what to read first.

Also where does this series rank among the top fantasy series? Besides Lord of The Rings and Harry Potter, I don't read very often but recently I've been wanting to get into something new.


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## LifeMaker (Feb 11, 2011)

I prefer the First Law to farseer myself, but others may vary i suppose

It's not at the absolute top, i'd say its second tier, behind tWoT, aSoIaF, Malazan etc


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## Aruarian (Feb 11, 2011)

It shits on HP and LotR, IMO.


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## masamune1 (Feb 11, 2011)

Hangatýr said:


> Do                it.



Sell                it                to                 me.


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## Dream Brother (Feb 11, 2011)

Dash said:


> What is the better series? The Farseer or First Law? Trying to decide on what to read first.



I enjoyed both quite a lot, so this is a tough question. In regard to your situation though...I don't think it matters which one you read first. They're both very good in different ways. Hobb's work seems more conventional, but she's very skilled with using the first-person perspective, which gives the books an intimate feel. The _Farseer_ books focus on (amongst other things) alienation, the process of growing up and the dynamic between duty and personal feelings. Abercrombie is more interested in cynicism, world weariness, violence, a style of switching between character perspectives every chapter, black humour and playing with the expectations of the reader. 

Both authors seem to have a great feel for characterisation.


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## Dash (Feb 12, 2011)

Hangat?r said:


> It shits on HP and LotR, IMO.



If its that good then I definitely need to get myself a copy.

Appreciate the replies guys, thanks.


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## Dream Brother (Feb 14, 2011)

I finished _The Heroes_. Spoilers will probably follow, be warned. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



I was about halfway through this book when I started thinking about what I would say about it. My thoughts were something like: 'An entertaining read, as expected. Some interesting characters, as expected. Everything as expected -- great read, but formulaic, not any sort of attempt to break new ground or do something drastically different.'

After finishing the book...I'm not so sure about that assessment. Maybe it's because the end of the book is where things finally come together and ignite, with Abercrombie hitting that top gear of his. He just writes so well within his tried and tested framework that I fall into the narrative with every book. To be fair to him, you could argue that he actually does break new ground here, in his study of warfare. We saw him looking at violence in TFL and BSC (it's a favourite element of his) but in this book it really feels like we get a deeper look at war and how different people feel about it. It's not just a simple anti-war treatise -- there are characters who become intoxicated by the battle, who voluntarily go back to it, just as there are others who are horrified by it all and try to escape it. Abercrombie doesn't take sides, he just shows the fighting in all its senseless glory. 

Gorst often feels a bit like a weaker replacement for the superb Glokta (in regard to the bitter inward rants about what life has done to him, reinforced by the 'italics' style that made Glokta more distinctive). His whining felt tiresome at points, because he simply didn't seem to be as much of a sympathetic figure as a tortured cripple. At the end of the book it feels like this was actually the point all along, though -- he was supposed to come across as petty and selfish. I like that Abercrombie seemed to make that clear. The Gorst passages also boast some of the finest writing in the book -- some scenes have a real film-like quality, where you can just imagine him wandering around the army camp apathetically, surrounded by people alien to him.

Finree feels like a more realised version of Ardee. She's less extreme, more of a toned down but still 'strong' female character. Believable. It's also enjoyable to see her facing down Black Dow and Bayaz. Gutsy, to say the least. 

Tunny is the only character perspective that bored me. I see what the point of the character is (I think I do, anyway) but he just didn't grab me at all. I feel like his chapters could easily be cut from this book, with some adjustments. Every time his chapter came up, I felt the momentum of the book slow to a virtual halt. A pity.

Craw is a good addition. Nothing amazing, but solid and dependable, just like his reputation. Reminds me of Ninefingers in that old character's more sane, tired moments, where he just wanted to escape the bloodshed. 

The real star of this show is Calder, I reckon. He's always witty, always entertaining and he's atypical for a Northmen, someone who prizes the mind over brawn. He's a coward in many ways, and yet he shows some impressive boldness in other ways. He makes things interesting in virtually every scene he's in. Great character.




So conclusion:

Great read. Nothing ground-breaking for Abercrombie, but definitely entertaining, with his usual strength for characters on display, along with a well-judged, impacting look at warfare. The end is the real high point -- things come together very nicely for a satisfying conclusion. It lacks the apathetic flatness that I felt at the end of BSC, and harkens back to the feel of TBI. Another good book by a superb fantasy author. 

As far as I'm concerned, he's on a roll -- every book he's published has been something I would recommend. Sometimes there are problems here and there, troublesome issues, but on the whole his books always shine.


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## abcd (Oct 4, 2011)

Finished First law triology recently  , Waiting for the next 2 books to be delivered...,  Glockta and Logan are 2 of the best characters I have read. 

*Spoiler*: __ 




I have some questions..,.

Did Bayaz kill Juvens ?
Did Logan lose his Bloody Nine when the seed was released?
Who is the greater evil? Bayaz or Khalul ? :/


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## masamune1 (Oct 4, 2011)

abcd said:


> Finished First law triology recently  , Waiting for the next 2 books to be delivered...,  Glockta and Logan are 2 of the best characters I have read.
> 
> I have some questions..,.
> 
> ...



You know, its a good job I've already spoiled this stuff for myself because I've only finished the first book and if I _hadn't_ read about the ending, I'd probably have to kill you. 


*Spoiler*: _Far as I know_ 



 Yes, no, and Bayaz, but Khalul is crazier.




Also see what I did there? *Spoiler Tags!*


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## abcd (Oct 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> You know, its a good job I've already spoiled this stuff for myself because I've only finished the first book and if I _hadn't_ read about the ending, I'd probably have to kill you.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Far as I know_
> ...



Hey the books are pretty old ...  , I thought only the heroes should be in spoiler tags


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## Cyphon (Oct 21, 2011)

Finished _The Blade Itself_. Honestly I wasn't really that impressed. It wasn't a bad book but I found little to get excited about during the whole thing. Bayaz spiced things up and there were some cool moments but all in all it was just okay. Hopefully things will pick up. Didn't really live up to some of the hype I gathered after seeing some comments here and there.


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## Cyphon (Oct 29, 2011)

Done with _Before They Are Hanged_. Still not crazy about these books. This one was definitely an improvement on the first but it still doesn't leave me excited to learn more and find out what's next. See if the closing picks it up some.


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## Cyphon (Nov 4, 2011)

And I have now wrapped up the trilogy. It was pretty solid and the final book was probably the best which is a nice surprise. Still say overall this trilogy wasn't great but it was solid enough. I think it would have been a lot more interesting with more about Juvens and the High Arts mixed in and more on the history of that. These books didn't feel very much like fantasy most of the time.


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## Dash (Nov 20, 2011)

I finally bought a copy of The Blade Itself, finished a couple of chapters and its been decent so far. Granted I only have read a small sample so far but I don't know where the hype comes from, hopefully it picks up though.


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## masamune1 (Nov 29, 2011)

Well, I just recently read and finished the last two books- got them from the library. Might as well comment.


*Spoiler*: __ 




I said on the last page that I'd spoiled myself about how the story ends; that and the fact that I read them _after_ it was announced that he's got another trilogy coming up, gave me a different perspective on things, judging from the rest of this thread. I knew the ending would reveal that Bayaz was a bad guy, that that he screwed over everyone he ever met without a shred of conscience, and that for all that he was the only character who really emerged triumphant. 

At the same time, I knew that he and other characters pop up in other stories, and if a trilogy is coming up- and I presume more stories after that still- then Bayaz will probably get a comeupants at some point in the future, or at least the possibility was open. So, in other words, I was expecting the bleak ending, and I knew that the door was open to something more bright. Or at least, I knew that Bayaz might still lose in the end. Plus, other characters might still have a shot at escaping their old lives.

With that in mind, I'd like to retract a statement I made not to long ago- Khalul is not crazier than Bayaz (well, he might be, but whatever). Bayaz is a _complete and utter mad old bastard_. Khalul only thinks he is God's Right Hand, and judging by Mamun is at least open to the possibility that he deserves to be punished for what he has done. Bayaz thinks he is God, full stop, and unlike others I don't want to see him die a horrible, agonising death- I want to see every single one of his plans and arrogant idea he has about himself blow up in his face. _Then_ give him the death. The horrible speech he gave to Jezal alone is enough to earn him that.

With that away, I was a little surprised by how much bigger the world seem to become as time went on. Ever since I saw a map of the _Circle of the World_ I was a little annoyed at how small it ultimately was, but it still seemed to approach a certain scale bigger than what I expected. The Big Bad Ensemble that emerged- of Bethod, Tolomei, the Tellers of Secrets and to an extent Arch Lector Sult- on top of Bayaz and Khalul who I expected, made the world seem bigger than what it seemed at first, as did the nice way he juggled six characters across three (small) continents. _The First Law_ wasn't as grand or as epic as _LotR,_ _Malazan_ or _ASoIaF_, but it still had a grandness to it that I didn't really expect. Low Fantasy still perhaps, but Low Fantasy on as still somewhat epic scale, at least in the context of all the other stories to come. 

Kind of weird, but the last bit in Kanedias' tower reminded me of _Final Fantasy_; like, that would be the bit in one of those games where the story had its first big twist, which is how I tend to think of the end of the last book- end of Act 1. 

The characters, of course, have already been spoken for. They were fun and enjoyable company, even if most of them were self-pitying arseholes. While none of them were especially complex or deep, they still managed to be mostly 3-dimensional. And Ferro, who was 2.5- 2-dimensional, but only because she forces herself to be. She'd in denial but she knows, deep down and, after the Seed was used, ina brief moment of clarity, that vengeance wasn't what it was cracked up to be, at least not for her. As to where her character goes from here or what her chances are with Khalul- well, he's a kindred spirit. Both, after all, do what they do out of an obsessive desire for revenge, are willing to take even the darkest paths to secure that revenge, and like to imagine God is on their side, though Khalul has taken it to a different level. It would be an interesting meeting since, for all the harm he's done to her, Khalul can justify himself in terms she can understand perfectly.

Doubt it would make too much difference, but he can at least make the appeal, and I see her going further down the path of instability, especially since devils are constantly whispering in her ear, and since Bayaz is probably still using her.

I've also come to appreciate Logen's true underlying problem- fundamental cowardice. It's of a different sort than Jezal's- though it makes for a nice comparison- but his basic problem is he's not willing to give his life for somebody else, even if he's willing to fight or even risk it for them. It's evident both in his "Still alive" mantra and his reluctance to look for his friends after he fell, or even his difficulty seeing them as friends. Plus of course its where the Bloody Nine comes from, seeing as he sees anyone and everyone as an enemy and likes to make everyone as batshit terrified of him as possible, something Logen used to like. Probably stems from when the Shanka destroyed his home (hence, obviously, the Bloody Nine's hatred of the Shanka). 

It's stuff like that that prevents me from looking at this as the most pessimistic fantasy story ever told (well, that, and I study history). The characters, for all the horror they inflict on the world, are pretty self-aware (sometime annoyingly so), and its not hard to find both their flaws and the solution to them. What gets in their way as much as anything else is lack of conviction and dumb luck: they _know_ they should change and over the course of the story they _do_ change, they _do_ end as decent- if deeply flawed- human beings. While the situations they find themselves in don't help, the only thing really in the way of a happy ending is their own lack of clarity.

Maybe I just want to speculate on how the unritten stories to come will unfold. I'm sure the next trilogy will have heaps of bad stuff in it- Jezal finding out about his wife, Glokta having his "no line I won't cross" mask put to the test, Ferro and Logen doing their thing and so on. But the trilogy, like _ASoIaF_, has a far darker reputation than I think it deserves, or accurately reflects its world. At the end of the day it still has shades of the traditional fantasy mode, and I think they will become more evident as the entirety of the series reaches a close.


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## masamune1 (Feb 3, 2012)

> *A Red Country- Synopsis*
> 
> _Shy South comes home to her farm to find a blackened shell, her brother and sister stolen, and knows she’ll have to go back to bad old ways if she’s ever to see them again. She sets off in pursuit with only her cowardly old step-father Lamb for company. But it turns out he’s hiding a bloody past of his own. *None bloodier*. Their journey will take them across the lawless plains, to a frontier town gripped by gold fever, through feuds, duels, and massacres, high into unmapped mountains to a reckoning with ancient enemies, and force them into alliance with Nicomo Cosca, infamous soldier of fortune, a man no one should ever have to trust..._


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## Terra Branford (Mar 31, 2012)

Getting into the books. I'm only on The Blade Itself, but within the first few pages I started to really like the writing style. Definitely happy I found out about the book, its a good read so far.

How I found out about the book, though, gave me some spoilers. But oh well, I don't mind that much.


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## masamune1 (Mar 31, 2012)

I almost always read up on a story before I read or watch it these days, and I almost always spoil myself rotten. I knew a lot about what happened in this series before I read it.

That said, there were still a few things that surprised me, things that either the internet didn't spoil or things that happened differently from how I thought they would. So, if you're in the same boat, I think you'll still be surprised at times.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 31, 2012)

Yes, I am the same way, in a way. A lot of the times, I'll read up on it, but sometimes I don't. It depends on what it is, really.

Its good to know it will still provide some surprises even if I spoiled a bit of it for myself.


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## masamune1 (Apr 2, 2012)

_(A) Red Country_ will be published in the UK October 18th 2012, and US November 20th 2012.


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## Anarch (Apr 4, 2012)

I finished The First Law just a couple of weeks ago. It was a good read but I liked it more because of one or two epic characters rather than the story itself. In fact I don't know if anyone else will relate to this but I thought the narrative gave away many plot points , made them quite obvious even. Meaning that I could accurately predict a lot of things that were going to happen later.


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## Banhammer (Jun 20, 2013)

just started on the last argument

God west's sister becomes a huge bitch


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## Lucaniel (Jun 20, 2013)

you think so?

i sympathised with her a fair amount


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## Banhammer (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm still one quarter in, so she's been barely a prop but yes I have no love for that girl any more.
All she does is drink, mouth off and get fucked

I liked it when she kicked the crap out of that guy.
And that's 60% thanks to ghlokta


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Jun 27, 2013)

I've just finished The Blade Itself, imho it is a great book. 

Being spoiled by Erikson, I'm usually a snobbish/hipster brat about other fantasy series, but this Abercrombie is really good. This first book has hooked my heart.

Glotka looked a great deal like Tyrion Lannister and Logen Ninefinger is maybe even more likeable than Karsa Orlong.

Can't wait for Amazon to deliver Before They Are Hanged at my house :33


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## Banhammer (Jun 28, 2013)

West sister grew on me after a lengthy repertoire with Glokta


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