# Sage Mode Naruto Vs Ay (fourth raikage)



## ShadowSikes (Jun 14, 2016)

sage mode naruto takes on at the 4th raikage.  

Rules 
- Naruto doesn't get clones storing nature chakra before hand but he starts in sage mode and kuruma is allowed to collect nature chakra for Naruto
-Naruto is NOT allowed any kyuubi modes.  
- Naruto doesn't have his summons already summoned
-No Intel from either side.
- The battle starts at 25 Meters

Fight to the Death or until one side cannot fight anymore.


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## Matty (Jun 14, 2016)

Naruto should win. Is this war SM Naruto? Or Pein Arc? Either way a FRS should end it. He has the elemental advantage, the reflexes and the ammo to put the raikage down with a clone feint.


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## ARGUS (Jun 14, 2016)

FRS *never *lands on Ay 

Naruto gets blitzed and one shotted by lateral chop

Ay wins this


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## Euraj (Jun 14, 2016)

Matty said:


> Naruto should win. Is this war SM Naruto? Or Pein Arc? Either way a FRS should end it. He has the elemental advantage, the reflexes and the ammo to put the raikage down with a clone feint.


Yeah, good luck hitting A with FRS, especially if he only has two shots before needing to wait for Kurama to power him back up. 

And here, he doesn't have chakra arms to fling the thing backwards and forward like he was doing with A3.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 14, 2016)

SM Naruto should win this depending on how the fight is handled because he has ample time to use clones, smoke bombs, and summon Boss Toads before Raikage amps his shroud to V2.


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## Kyu (Jun 14, 2016)

Pain arc SM? Ay speedblitzes him.

War Arc SM? ^

EoS SM Naruto? Obliterates Ay.


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## Euraj (Jun 14, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> SM Naruto should win this depending on how the fight is handled because he has ample time to use clones, smoke bombs, and summon Boss Toads before Raikage amps his shroud to V2.


With no intel on either side, there's no reason for the fight to go that way. It would be more like, he starts with Shadow Clones to test the water, like he's done almost every time he doesn't know what powers his opponent is using, and once he sees how fast A is and A sees big Rasengans and floods of clones, they both fall back to step it up a notch.

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that A has to stand still for five minutes or something to get into full power anyway. He was able to get into the initial stage while running at the Kage Summit, and amped to full blast before Sasuke could fire Amaterasu.


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## Mercurial (Jun 14, 2016)

Naruto mid diffs. Even if he is slower than max speed Ei, he has the reflexes to react to him and more than enough physical strength to parry and overwhelm him with Frog Fu. With Kage Bunshin feints and smoke bombs, Ei is eating a Fuuton Rasenshuriken.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 14, 2016)

No intel means Ay jumps into the fray with his regular Shunshin and a punch, Naruto meets him with a Senpō: Rasengan. Guess which one hits.

Hint: it's not the punch. And the Senpō: Rasengan kills or cripples Ay enough to give Naruto the overwhelming advantage and end the fight.

Even if Ay went full-speed like he did against Madara, Naruto blocks and gets sent flying, learns his lesson and hides his presence with a smoke bomb. From there he tricks Ay with clone feints, Rasenshuriken transformations, or simply ganks him from behind courtesy of sensing.

Only way Ay would win is if he went full Shunshin leading with a Lateral Bolt of Pain. It would probably cut Naruto's arm off and leave him at a severe disadvantage.


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## SuperDragonGirl (Jun 14, 2016)

If this is Pain Arc Sage Naruto he loses.

If this is War Arc Sage Naruto he wins.


War Arc Sage Mode Naruto had more experience and control with the form and could also maintain this form for longer than the usual 5 minutes. 

Big FRS would kill A armor or not. Also when it comes to speed Naruto can react much faster in sage mode than A can in his lightning armor, he quickly countered the Third Raikage who is > his son.

KCM was just not going all out against A because he didn't want to fight him. Had he been serious he would have used clones, rasengan and rasenshuriken variants like he did against the edo Kage's and white zetsu's.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 14, 2016)

Euraj said:


> With no intel on either side, there's no reason for the fight to go that way. It would be more like, he starts with Shadow Clones to test the water, like he's done almost every time he doesn't know what powers his opponent is using, and once he sees how fast A is and A sees big Rasengans and floods of clones, they both fall back to step it up a notch.



With no intel, there's absolutely no reason for Raikage to use V2 Shunshin. His V1 Shunshin alone is easy for him to react to, so it's rather dangerous if Raikage chooses to test his opponent with V1 Shunshin to start off with.



> I'm not sure where the idea comes from that A has to stand still for five minutes or something to get into full power anyway. He was able to get into the initial stage while running at the Kage Summit, and amped to full blast before Sasuke could fire Amaterasu.



It's been depicted that way considering Minato could reach into his pocket, throw a bunch of kunai all over the battlefield and then remain still for a single panel before he could build up enough chakra to use his max Shunshin. It's rather noticeable in the midst of battle and enough for me to suggest that Naruto can summon Boss Toads before he blitzes all the way towards Naruto.


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## Icegaze (Jun 15, 2016)

Can't see SM Naruto loosing 
Like @ATastyMuffin  said 

Basically 
Nothing else to add


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 15, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> FRS *never *lands on Ay
> 
> Naruto gets blitzed and one shotted by lateral chop
> 
> Ay wins this



What he said. 
Naruto gets annihilated.


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## Skaddix (Jun 15, 2016)

If he could win with Sage Mode. He would have used it to dodge Ei. Considering he didn't use Sage Mode to do that. He is not fast enough. But nice to see the usual Raikage haters at it again ie the Sauce and Kakashi Fanboys.


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## Matty (Jun 15, 2016)

It isn't fanboying if it is true. War Naruto was reacting to Sandaime with no KCM. His dad is also tougher and was an Edo. Naruto should win


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## Ayala (Jun 15, 2016)

Matty said:


> It isn't fanboying if it is true. War Naruto was reacting to Sandaime with no KCM. His dad is also tougher and was an Edo. Naruto should win



I May be wrong, but i heard third raikage's strength was resistance, not speed. With the fourth it's different.


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## Matty (Jun 15, 2016)

Yes A is faster than his dad. I doubt the gap is that much when his dad reacted to point blank FRS.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 15, 2016)

Matty said:


> Yes A is faster than his dad. I doubt the gap is that much when *his dad reacted to point blank FRS*.



I don't see the correlation here. Why does reacting to FRS imply a marginal difference ? How is that related to A in any way ?

There is a significant difference between A's V1 and V2, as evident when Sasuke was able to follow and outmanuver him in V1 and lost track of him briefly in V2. Also Karin's remark about his chakra levels reaching bijuu levels as he was amping towards V2.
So even if we assume that Sandaime is as fast as V1 A, he is still not comparable to V2.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 15, 2016)

Giving full intel to both of these people still gives Naruto the win. Because if Minato can throw a shitload of kunai around the area before Ay ramps up his chakra to activate his full-speed Shunshin, Naruto can launch a smoke bomb or two to envelop himself within the surroundings.

From there, it's downhill for Ay.

So yes, Naruto still beats Ay without and with intel. If Naruto had no knowledge and Ay did, sure, Ay wins. But that's one hell of a contrived scenario, lmao.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Jun 16, 2016)

When is the last time Naruto used a smoke bomb?


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 16, 2016)

Against Pain, when incidentally he was also in Sage Mode.

Not OOC for him to use it at all.


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## Skaddix (Jun 16, 2016)

So 300 chapter ago or so? Yeah that doesn't look like a standard tactic to me.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 16, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> So 300 chapter ago or so? Yeah that doesn't look like a standard tactic to me.



I don't see how that's relevant. It'd be OOC if Naruto has straight-up never used it for deception, but he has. In a Battledome match-up, we evaluate based on the best a character can do with the tools he has. In this situation, there's _actually_ precedent for Naruto using smoke bombs for deception.


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## Second Hokage Tobirama (Jun 16, 2016)

Well if Naruto didn't had Dodai Support and Intela plus Hachibi Intell SM would not have helped him against Third Raikage! 

Against the Fourth who is much Faster than his Daddy Naruto in SM can't do anything,he will get beaten with Mid Difficulty at most!


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 16, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Well if Naruto didn't had Dodai Support and Intela plus Hachibi Intell SM would not have helped him against Third Raikage!
> 
> Against the Fourth who is much Faster than his Daddy Naruto in SM can't do anything,he will get beaten with Mid Difficulty at most!



Using the Third's defeat as a reason for Naruto beating the Fourth or vice versa makes no sense, they're completely different fighters with different strengths.

Naruto beats the Fourth for other reasons.


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## Second Hokage Tobirama (Jun 16, 2016)

Third is way more Durable and has better Offense. But Naruto was able to beat him with Strategy and Knowledge.

Against the Fourth who has less Durability but is mucg Faster it means Naruto can't hit him with FRS ,Summons will be useless against A Speed and Attacks. All Raikage needs is 1 hit. 

Naruto barely Reacted to Third Raikage thanks to SM Sensing but Fourth is much Faster which means even with that Sensing he simply can't react fast enough to his Attacks!


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 16, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Third is way more Durable and has better Offense. But Naruto was able to beat him with Strategy and Knowledge.
> 
> Against the Fourth who has less Durability but is mucg Faster it means Naruto can't hit him with FRS ,Summons will be useless against A Speed and Attacks. All Raikage needs is 1 hit.
> 
> Naruto barely Reacted to Third Raikage thanks to SM Sensing but Fourth is much Faster which means even with that Sensing he simply can't react fast enough to his Attacks!



Naruto doesn't need Rasenshuriken. Smoke bombs and ganking him from behind with a senjutsu-enhanced Rasengan is enough to do him in.

The Fourth is much faster than the Third, yes, but Sage Naruto was explicitly stated to have faster reflexes than Kyūbi Chakra Mode, which reacted to Ay's fastest Shunshin perfectly fine. Naruto can at least block Ay's hits provided they aren't Lateral Bolt of Pain, and from there, smoke bombs and good game.

Listen, there basically are two scenarios this fight can go down in. Knowledge or no knowledge.

*Knowledge:* Ay ramps up his shroud like he did Minato, Naruto throws smoke bombs, and the fight proceeds as described above.
*No knowledge:* Ay rushes him in like he did Jūgo, Naruto blows his chest out with Rasengan like Sasuke almost succeeded in doing had his Chidori not been so damn weak.

In both cases, Naruto wins. You can argue the first scenario (knowledge) a little more valiantly, but Naruto duped a smarter foe with three fields of vision in Pain. Odds are, Ay falls for a clone feint and gets his skull smashed by a senjutsu-enhanced Rasengan.


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## Second Hokage Tobirama (Jun 16, 2016)

All the Knowledge Naruto had thanks to Jiraya,Kakashi and thr Village against Pain were a big factor in his rather close win.

Naruto doesn't know Raikage has Super Shunshin Speed or Above Average Durability and Attack strong enough to Break Susanoo Rib Cage in order to go Smokes and Clones diverions.

While Raikage basically goes V1 and Rushes over 25 Meters and can hurt Naruto really good to hinder him. 

Raikage charged straight forward to Sasuke and Sasuke had MS Prec,to predict his movements while Naruto can Sense them but can't predict them.

KCM Naruto basically outrun Raikage being Faster he didn't react to the attack he just was faster and avoided it.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jun 16, 2016)

What exactly would smoke bombs do against the Raikage? If he sees a Rasenshuriken fly out through the smoke, his first instinct is going to be to Shunshin away from it.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 16, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> All the Knowledge Naruto had thanks to Jiraya,Kakashi and thr Village against Pain were a big factor in his rather close win.
> 
> Naruto doesn't know Raikage has Super Shunshin Speed or Above Average Durability and Attack strong enough to Break Susanoo Rib Cage in order to go Smokes and Clones diverions.



Er, how does address anything in my post again?



> While Raikage basically goes V1 and Rushes over 25 Meters and can hurt Naruto really good to hinder him.



Raikage goes 'v1' and his sternum explodes.

'v1' isn't remotely enough to take on Sage Naruto, who in fact low-diffs that version of Ay.



> Raikage charged straight forward to Sasuke and Sasuke had MS Prec,to predict his movements while Naruto can Sense them but can't predict them.



Sage Mode is literally precognition. Naruto senses incoming danger and reacts in time.

If Sasuke, who is much physically slower than Sage Naruto, can do it, guess what? So can Sage Naruto.



> KCM Naruto basically outrun Raikage being Faster he didn't react to the attack he just was faster and avoided it.



Again, this doesn't address anything in my post.



Atlantic Storm said:


> What exactly would smoke bombs do against the Raikage? If he sees a Rasenshuriken fly out through the smoke, his first instinct is going to be to Shunshin away from it.



Smoke bombs keep Raikage from cutting Naruto's face off. If Ay rushes _into_ the smoke, he's finished. If Naruto decides to attack from above after using a Rasenshuriken/clone to divert Ay's attention like he did against Pain, Ay will also be finished.

With smoke bombs, Naruto's avenue of attack opens up in so many ways. He can outwit Raikage with ease if he did so against Pain. I'm expecting the same people who think Itachi can equally trick Ay and land an Amaterasu him via feints to support this, because it's the same line of thought.


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## Second Hokage Tobirama (Jun 16, 2016)

And how wide Area will those Smoke Bombs cover for the Raikage especially in V2 to Shunshin out of it!? He is not so stupid to stay in the Smoke with Zero Visibility and wait!? He has quite good experience in battle.

Naruto was caught by much Slower Pain Bodies so how the V2 Raikage won't be able to touch him !?


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 16, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> And how wide Area will those Smoke Bombs cover for the Raikage especially in V2 to Shunshin out of it!? He is not so stupid to stay in the Smoke with Zero Visibility and wait!? He has quite good experience in battle.
> 
> Naruto was caught by much Slower Pain Bodies so how the V2 Raikage won't be able to touch him !?



If Naruto baits him with a clone for Ay to attack in the smoke, yes, Ay's getting a Rasengan to the head.

There's also the approach of Rasenshuriken decoy --> attack from above. Heck, Naruto could summon Ma to blow dust all around the battlefield to completely obscure Ay's eyesight, then a Rasenshuriken from behind to finish him.

There are a _lot _of ways to go about it. Put bluntly, Ay won't find Naruto, who can sense and attack him from however he wishes.


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## Icegaze (Jun 18, 2016)

Yh I don't see how A one dimensional fighting style doesn't get exploited here

SM Naruto has more than enough time to throw a smoke bomb here if minato could throw 30 Kunai and the 30 could land before A was ready to go

A at that point looses sight of the enemy as such he is immediately on the defensive as no one can suggest he runs into smoke 

Say he avoids the first FRS . With shadow shiruken tech the second could catch him off guard 

Or Naruto simply jumps over his LoS and lands with a rasengan 

Naruto is very very very good at clone feints if he could feint pain with 360 field of vision 

A is going to get fooled very easily and killed 

Honestly this is more of a low diff win


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## Rocky (Jun 19, 2016)

@Icegaze 

Ears.


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## Icegaze (Jun 19, 2016)

Rocky said:


> @Icegaze
> 
> Ears.



Ok 
I guess naraka is deft then 

Or is there some sort of proof 

A has better hearing ?


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## Rocky (Jun 19, 2016)

Naraka didn't hear Konahamaru's Genin ass sprinting up behind him with Rasengan until Konahamaru had gotten so close that Nagato couldn't even react in time to dodge it. So yeah, Naraka is deaf. If you'd like examples of ninja reacting to attacks without seeing them, they're plentiful in the manga. Off the top of my head, there's Kakashi blocking Zabuza in blinding fog, Shikamaru dodging Kakuzu's flank, Papa Raikage dodging a Rasenshuriken thrown at the back of his neck, like 56 different things in the Obito vs. Naruto & Friends battle...need I go on?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Icegaze (Jun 19, 2016)

Rocky said:


> Naraka didn't hear Konahamaru's Genin ass sprinting up behind him with Rasengan until Konahamaru had gotten so close that Nagato couldn't even react in time to dodge it. So yeah, Naraka is deaf. If you'd like examples of ninja reacting to attacks without seeing them, they're plentiful in the manga. Off the top of my head, there's Kakashi blocking Zabuza in blinding fog, Shikamaru dodging Kakuzu's flank, Papa Raikage dodging a Rasenshuriken thrown at the back of his neck, like 56 different things in the Obito vs. Naruto & Friends battle...need I go on?



But A hasnt reacted to anytbing he couldn't see

Last I checked he got caught by Madara once he was looking at tsunade direction 



Those people feats though don't prove A would hear narjto coming from above him

Kakashi has a good sense of smell . That could easily have helped and is far more likely the reason he avoided zabuza using "SILENT " killing 

Shikamaru got lucky one might say 

Papa raikage clearly saw the chakra arm when it went past him the first time also look at the scan again we clearly see him having his head in a swivel 

He was covering his 6 there 

So none of that grants A magic hearing when he has no reason To pay attention to what's above him 

Also last I checked didn't A get hit from behind by Madara despite Madara being slower than A ?

After flower tree world remember . He didn't hear Madara behind him


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## Rocky (Jun 19, 2016)

A battle worn Ay was caught by Susanoo while _screaming_ Tsunade's title across the battlefield.

I don't have to prove that Raikage can hear Naruto right behind him because it's automatically assumed that Ay has a sense of hearing and that Rasengan makes noise. Unless you're going to argue that Raikage cannot hear or that Rasengan is a silent technique, you don't really have anything here. Raikage being especially susceptible to clone tricks is nothing more than 4/10 fanfiction. That isn't something Kishimoto highlighted or even implied, despite him giving _both_ Raikages – who fight in the same exact way – individual bouts against Naruto, one of the most prominent Shadow Clone users in the story.


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## Icegaze (Jun 19, 2016)

Rocky said:


> A battle worn Ay was caught by Susanoo while _screaming_ Tsunade's title across the battlefield.
> 
> I don't have to prove that Raikage can hear Naruto right behind him because it's automatically assumed that Ay has a sense of hearing and that Rasengan makes noise. Unless you're going to argue that Raikage cannot hear or that Rasengan is a silent technique, you don't really have anything here. Raikage being especially susceptible to clone tricks is nothing more than 4/10 fanfiction. That isn't something Kishimoto highlighted or even implied, despite him giving _both_ Raikages – who fight in the same exact way – individual bouts against Naruto, one of the most prominent Shadow Clone users in the story.



and Naraka has a sense of hearing and he didn't hear Naruto which is my point. Animal path didn't hear Naruto slam rasegan onto her either, she lost her sense of sight and got floored.

Naraka didn't hear rasengan, you would have to prove A hearing is magically better.

so the assumption of oh I like A, he is fast therefore he can hear whats above him is simply false and not substantiated in the manga at all

deidara didn't hear sasuke behind him. kakuzu didn't hear kakashi raikiri I could easily go on

there are far more examples of people being caught from behind than there are reacting

its fan fic to assume someone who couldn't even beat  newbie MS sasuke is going to be beating SM naruto


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 19, 2016)

Rocky said:


> Naraka didn't hear Konahamaru's Genin ass sprinting up behind him with Rasengan until Konahamaru had gotten so close that Nagato couldn't even react in time to dodge it. So yeah, Naraka is deaf. If you'd like examples of ninja reacting to attacks without seeing them, they're plentiful in the manga. Off the top of my head, there's Kakashi blocking Zabuza in blinding fog, Shikamaru dodging Kakuzu's flank, Papa Raikage dodging a Rasenshuriken thrown at the back of his neck, like 56 different things in the Obito vs. Naruto & Friends battle...need I go on?



Raikiri also makes noise, but that didn't prevent Kakuzu from outright stating that Kakashi "hid" his presence to the point that Kakuzu couldn't sense Kakashi as well. Let me guess? Kakuzu is deaf too?


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## Rocky (Jun 19, 2016)

Kakashi is former Anbu, and therefore may possess the ability to mask his sound. Raikiri was initially developed for assassination purposes iirc, meaning he probably activates it mid-thrust if attempting a sneak attack. 

And to the both of you, all I really need to do is bring up Konahamaru to damn all clone feint feats against Nagato. If trash can sneak up on him, I've got no reason to see Naruto doing it as impressive. 

@Icegaze specifically,

There are probably more examples of Obito alone reacting to things he couldn't see than there are of ninja being caught completely unaware. Blindsiding only works because hearing isn't going to alert somebody of a threat until it's too late, ie. Jiraiya vs. Asura Path. That, and the information won't be that detailed.


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## Icegaze (Jun 20, 2016)

Rocky said:


> Kakashi is former Anbu, and therefore may possess the ability to mask his sound. Raikiri was initially developed for assassination purposes iirc, meaning he probably activates it mid-thrust if attempting a sneak attack.
> 
> And to the both of you, all I really need to do is bring up Konahamaru to damn all clone feint feats against Nagato. If trash can sneak up on him, I've got no reason to see Naruto doing it as impressive.
> 
> ...



I certainly have more where all sorts of enemies didn't hear who was behind them than you would have to the contrary 

Therefore narjto feat against naraka is the norm And not the outliner

Which you believe would conveniently grant raikage the ability to hear Naruto above him 

When his jump and subsequent attack would be masked by FRS which is anytbing but quiet


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 20, 2016)

Rocky said:


> Kakashi is former Anbu, and therefore may possess the ability to mask his sound. Raikiri was initially developed for assassination purposes iirc, meaning he probably activates it mid-thrust if attempting a sneak attack.



Which doesn't refute the fact that Raikiri does make noise. If it's developed for assassination purposes, then that merely implies that even techniques that make noise such as Rasengan or Raikiri can be used effectively for blind-side attacks depending on how well the technique is executed.

Besides, I feel as if you're underrating Naruto's performance because not even Jiraiya could bypass Pain's Shared Vision with guerrilla tactics. What Naruto did was impressive, unpredictable, and actually, well-thought out. The only ones that could feint Pain was Kakashi who's a master of feints. Saying that what Naruto did was unimpressive is degrading his own capabilities. No one in the entire manga could bypass Pain's Shared Vision yet Naruto could. Does that tell you that what he did was unimpressive?

 Using the feint Konohamaru used against Naraka Path to justify that Naraka Path is ineffective at handling feints is like justifying that Zabuza isn't well-equipped in handling feints because he was feinted by someone who was trashed by a mere Water Clone. Obviously, that's not the case, so this kind of logic is obviously flawed.


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