# Asuma vs Tsunade



## Sadgoob (Jul 30, 2013)

*Location:* Sannin Field
*Distance:* 15 meters
*Knowledge:* Manga


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## Wolfstein (Jul 30, 2013)

Tsunade may have some problems due to the starting distance. Inclined to say Asuma goes full G on her ass and pulls off a shunsin wind blade execution blitz, but I just simply don't see it happening that way. I'm sure she can substitute in time and catch some distance. Also, Creation Rebirth isn't a major factor... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think head shots take her out either way.   Asuma is fairly comfortable with dodging due to his fighting style mimicking that of a boxer. He weaves around slicing her up, dodging her sloppy ohko's until he decapitates her. 


Tsunade can take the win if she summons big daddy Katsuyu from the get go.


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## trance (Jul 30, 2013)

It can go either way.


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## Veracity (Jul 30, 2013)

Tsunade destroys him. She has better speed feats, better taijustu feats, far better durability, and wayyy better strentgh. She outclasses him in every possible albeit an Elemental affinity and range.

She also has a herald level summoning.

I like how all the Tsunade haters jumped on this thread and said she barely wins. That's cute. 

Why is this debateable? Your comparing a Hokage to a Jounin. A Jounin who has never even been implied to be over Jounin. Tsunade beats all part 1 Jounin.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 30, 2013)

Ino was able to fight with Asuma in taijutsu, albeit with kunai in place of his trench knives.  While part of that is familiarity with her sensei, you'd still have to believe that Ino is faster and more skilled in taijutsu than Tsunade is to say Tsunade loses.  I am okay with this belief.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 30, 2013)

Tsunade wins w/ katsyuu. the hokage should know of asumas prowess.
with the distraction of the slug, she would be able to get a clean shot on him pretty easily.


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## Wolfstein (Jul 30, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Tsunade destroys him. She has better speed feats, better taijustu feats, far better durability, and wayyy better strentgh. She outclasses him in every possible albeit an Elemental affinity and range.
> 
> *She also has a herald level summoning.*
> 
> ...



Can't speak for everyone, but I love Tsunade! But the speed difference isn't great enough for it to effect the outcome of a taijutsu battle. If she engages him in close range, she'll come up short for sure. 

I agree with the bold, Katsuyu takes a massive dump on Asuma.


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## Veracity (Jul 30, 2013)

Wolfstein said:


> Can't speak for everyone, but I love Tsunade! But the speed difference isn't great enough for it to effect the outcome of a taijutsu battle. If she engages him in close range, she'll come up short for sure.
> 
> I agree with the bold, Katsuyu takes a massive dump on Asuma.



Lol it's seems like you don't. Well I guess it's just your thing.

Butt Tsunade has more experience, faster speed, and more taijustu skill then Asuma. There's no way he can win.

Asuma had trouble with Hidan(of all people) and was BARELY better then Ino in taijustu. That's pretty sad. He just hasn't shown enough IMO to credit with of beating a mid-tier Kage.

He's only Jounin himself, and he hasn't been implied to be that impressive.


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## Mithos (Jul 30, 2013)

Tsunade wins. 

She is more skilled in close combat than him and can take him out with one hit, while he will struggle to kill her because of Souzou Saisei or Byakugou. With her high amount of skill and focus on evasion, he will struggle to land deep wounds or remove limbs - but if he does manage, Tsunade can regenerate. He can only avoid being hit by a more skilled opponent for so long, especially since he must dodge and not block, which makes things much more difficult for him.

If Tsunade summons Katsuyu, there is literally nothing he can do. He can't avoid acid forever, and he can't do any meaningful damage to the giant slug.


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## Hiruko2425 (Jul 30, 2013)

Restrict Katsuyu and then you give Asuma a fighting chance to win. Without Katsuyu it could go either way Tsunade high dif. or Asuma high dif. If Asuma could land a blow that chops off a limb then he could definetly win.


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## trance (Jul 30, 2013)

I don't even consider Katsuyu toward the outcome of the fight anymore because she ignores conventional attacks, so the result is obvious Tsunade wins...honestly, it's extremely boring...just like Kamui...

Let's try this again...

With Katsuyu, Tsunade rapes.

Without Katsuyu, it can go either. I will lean towards Tsunade.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jul 30, 2013)

Tsunade has a easier chance of landing a kill shot imo. Asuma has his wind lase blades that can hack up tsunade but she got dumb resilience and healing/regen. If asuma trade blows, gets countered etc he is pretty fucked up. 

I will say tsunade takes it most of the times. A head shot on her is like trying to hit the lottery when she knows she can afford to dodge and take out her opponent low diff due to her strength and bigger stamina.


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## bleakwinter (Jul 30, 2013)

*Tsunade wins (Low-Difficulty)*

Asuma's techniques simply lack the lethality necessary to overpower Tsunade's regeneration. His Katon only caused subcutaneous burns on both Hidan's flesh and his own, while his Futon was reacted to by Ino in her act of shifting Choji out of its trajectory. The only plausible means of any sort of victory for Asuma is a decapitation with his Hien, which isn't likely to occur. While Asuma does specialize in close ranged fighting, the reality is that Ino-Shika-Cho had little trouble reacting to Asuma's physical attacks. The only instances where Asuma was able to pressure the team was largely attributed to their emotional turmoil which obviously impeded their fighting ability to an extent. As PoW surmised quite nicely, one would essentially have to imply that even Ino possesses better Taijutsu feats than Tsunade in order to then assert that Asuma will outclass Tsunade in a Taijutsu skirmish.

While Asuma is a reputed close range specialist, he doesn't posses the evasive feats necessary to suggest that he could dance around Tsunade's attacks unscathed. Hidan is the self-proclaimed slowest attacker in the Akatsuki, and even he was able to at least scratch Asuma. A single strike from Tsunade, even one as small as a graze or glancing blow, would perpetually disable him (If not outright kill him). This is further exacerbated by the fact that Asuma truly has no idea of her immense strength, and any exhibited propensity toward him blocking her punches would result in him missing a limb. Tsunade has a multitude of speed feats from the Gokage battle, including striking away Madara's fireballs while the Kage were helpless to react (Which also suggests that her arm speed is reflexive enough to protect her head from Asuma's blade if needed), coupled with at least keeping up with Ei's speed on one occasion (1). Katsuyu would be an added benefactor here, but is neither required or warranted since Asuma has almost no chance of overpowering her regenerative ability.


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## Kai (Jul 31, 2013)

Tsunade chases Asuma down everywhere, causing collateral fissures and damages over the battlefield - sooner or later she'll catch him up and kill him with a single physical attack. In all likelihood she's greater than Asuma is in close quarters combat and will be able to outmaneuver his Hien and heal all damages from his ninjutsu with her restoration techniques.

The BD has a bad habit of somehow blending Jounin fighters with the Kage class range in the same melting pot. Asuma is a clear case of a Jounin shinobi who is not on the level of a Kage.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 31, 2013)

This isn't a rape stomp but no way in hell can Asuma win this in your wildest dreams. Think about it. Tier gap in speed. So irrelevant. She is better in taijutsu though. She is also stupid strong. So her unarming Asuma is one hell of a possibility. Katon or fuuton? She can avoid them. No Katsuya required. Hell no byakugou required. This fight is going to come down to CQC and who is more skilled here and Tsunade has the better chance of disarming him/landing one hit then Asuma does at landing multiple hits.

Tsunade wins when I restricted her of all ninjutsu. Is Asuma weak? Hell no. Elite Jounin. But Tsunade just needs to land a hit and against a CQC specialist who isn't as skilled as Tsunade, I am giving it to her every time. If she actually used ninjutsu it would be a stomp. Honestly, unbalanced match up.


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## Sadgoob (Jul 31, 2013)

The gap in speed is double the gap in taijutsu, and Asuma uses a lightsaber. Therefore, I don't necessarily think it's a travesty for people to argue for Asuma. 

Granted, Asuma wouldn't win if the fight was written in the manga, but it's more along the line of "Naruto will win because he's a main character" than being clear-cut because of their abilities. 

And I know the "feat-only" bit gets old in the Battledome, and I'm not saying that, but rank-importance is something that I mitigate in the same way we all mitigate (if not discard) character-importance.​


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 31, 2013)

^^Kisame v. Gai, Kurenai v. Itachi, Hidan v. Kakashi, Asuma v. Hidan, etc, etc. A tier gap in speed made virtually no difference. In fact, I don't even think speed was commented on in these fights. Skill has shown to be more important than speed. Like Oro with the 1.5 advantage in speed against Hiruzen with the 1.5 advantage in taijutsu. And Hiruzen even when exhausted disarmed Orochimaru in only a few hits. Skill is a lot more important than speed. It isn't a travesty if Tsunade is restricted of her ninjutsu. It is if she can go all out.

Nothing against you or the thread it just seems pretty unbalanced.


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## Sadgoob (Jul 31, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> ^^Kisame v. Gai



I'm pretty sure speed played a role in Gai initially disarming Kisame.



Rosencrantz said:


> Kurenai v. Itachi



Eh, he flashed behind her and the fight was done.



Rosencrantz said:


> Hidan v. Kakashi



Hidan couldn't get a scratch.



Rosencrantz said:


> Asuma v. Hidan



Hidan only got a scratch. 



Rosencrantz said:


> Like Oro with the 1.5 advantage in speed against Hiruzen with the 1.5 advantage in taijutsu. And Hiruzen even when exhausted disarmed Orochimaru in only a few hits.



That had as much to do with Enma and Orochimaru's mindset as it did with Hiruzen's superior skill. And don't forget that the fight began with Orochimaru flashing behind Hiruzen, then letting him go. He was just toying with him.



Rosencrantz said:


> Skill is a lot more important than speed.



I think they're about equally important myself.


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## Veracity (Jul 31, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> I'm pretty sure speed played a role in Gai initially disarming Kisame.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Portrayal wise, feat wise, DB stats, implication, ETC. in every which way is Tsuande better. 

You can't even argue this. This thread is extremely unbalanced. Reminds me of Haku vs Hiruzen.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 31, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> I'm pretty sure speed played a role in Gai initially disarming Kisame.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's skill. It takes skill to disarm. Lawl who disarms people with a leg? It surprised Kisame how skillful Gai was. Kisame reacted to all of Gai's attacks just fine though. And they have fought more than once. On the next occasion, Gai blindsides him with a kick and Kisame easily blocks. 

She got kicked and he broke her guard which sent her flying. Itachi's strength was the most important factor there because she blocked his kick and dodged his kunai. His speed/skill was not getting the job done. His strength did.

Neither could hit the other. Kakashi had a whole tier speed and a 3 tomoe sharingan yet neither could hit the other. It was evenly matched when skill was equalized and speed wasn't. Your argument is bias. You ignore that neither hit each other. Thus a draw.

Yet Hidan is a tier slower. He cut someone after only a few seconds who is a whole tier faster. Asuma could not touch him. You failed to mention that. Again you are neglecting that the faster person could not land a hit while the slower did.

Orochimaru did not lower his skill lawl. Hiruzen beat him while Hiruzen was exhausted. Yes because the Kusangi to the chest was real fun and games. He clearly got serious after he defeated the first and second Hokages and took out Edo Tensei. Orochimaru was sweating and very angry at that point. He was not playing around.

Every example proves you wrong. Hidan was winning against Asuma but he is slower and have equal skill. Hiruzen should have lost if they are equally important or it should have been a draw. Kakashi should have wrecked Hidan but he could not land a hit. Gai should have wrecked Kisame. No, these examples demonstrate exactly how speed is not equally as important but always subordinate to raw skill.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 31, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Portrayal wise,


Tsunade


> feat wise


about even 





> DB stats


 Asuma in  combat skill, 





> implication


 open to interpretation, 





> ETC. in every which way is Tsuande better.


no, if she were you wouldn't be refuting others ITT



> You can't even argue this. This thread is extremely unbalanced. Reminds me of Haku vs Hiruzen.



its unbalanced because of katsyuu, yes
you cant argue otherwise


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## Veracity (Jul 31, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> Tsunade
> about even  Asuma in  combat skill,  open to interpretation, no, if she were you wouldn't be refuting others ITT
> 
> 
> ...



Don't even debate with me. I've seen your debating skills, they are terrible.

Feat wise these nuts. He was equal to INO in taijustu, and got absolutely destroyed by Ino-Shika-Cho with little effort after they got serious. Is that impressive to you?

Implication:Tsunade by far. Sannin>regular Jounin. She also the Hokage and is known as the strongest female Shinobi.

And don't being up DB with me. It hasn't shown data regarding the war in which Tsunade gained a plethora of feats.


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## Undead (Jul 31, 2013)

Didn't we have this same match-up recently?


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## Kind of a big deal (Jul 31, 2013)

At least people aren't arguing that Tsunade can regenerate limbs (or half her body anymore. That was always so annoying. We have seen now that even if she could, it would take far too long and far too big of a toll on her chakra levels to be practical in a fight.

Aside from the summon, they both have 1 hit KO's and neither is fast enough to completely speedblitz the other, so it comes down to skill, which is probably also comparable. It's a 50-50 match.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 31, 2013)

Kai said:


> Tsunade chases Asuma down everywhere, causing collateral fissures and damages over the battlefield - sooner or later she'll catch him up and kill him with a single physical attack. In all likelihood she's greater than Asuma is in close quarters combat and will be able to outmaneuver his Hien and heal all damages from his ninjutsu with her restoration techniques.
> 
> The BD has a bad habit of somehow blending Jounin fighters with the Kage class range in the same melting pot. Asuma is a clear case of a Jounin shinobi who is not on the level of a Kage.



That's probably because the most popular Jonin for matches out there are Kakashi and Guy, who are actually in the kage class without being kage.  

Though quite seriously, Guy was mangled worse in a scant few minutes of fighting playful Madara than the Gokage were fighting Madara 5 v 1 for hours on end, so something to be said about carelessly mixing even those two among the titled kage.


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## Jad (Jul 31, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> That's probably because the most popular Jonin for matches out there are Kakashi and Guy, who are actually in the kage class without being kage.
> 
> Though quite seriously, Guy was mangled worse in a scant few minutes of fighting playful Madara than the Gokage were fighting Madara 5 v 1 for hours on end, so something to be said about carelessly mixing even those two among the titled kage.



Hachibi was also beat up. So~ If you would to assume how the fight went with Gai and Madara, then I can assume Gai was being hit with attacks that could hurt a Bijuu from the original Madara. The same original Madara that off-panelled the Kages. Also where is it implied that Madara was being playful with Gai, he has no reason to. He was being considerate against Naruto though before as a Jinchuuriki.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 31, 2013)

He implied he was being playful when he stated that he wanted to stretch out the fight because Naruto was the Nine Tails Jinchuriki, like you said.  But then he said oh well and summoned the wood dragon so it could solo.  I doubt he was going 100% against Guy, and then being playful with Naruto.  It makes more sense that he went at them both with the same level, and used appropriate levels of force against each of them.  

Hmm.  Actually, my memory is a little fuzzy on the chronology, so I should re-read those chapters before I talk any more on them.


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## Jad (Jul 31, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> *He implied he was being playful when he stated that he wanted to stretch out the fight because Naruto was the Nine Tails Jinchuriki*, like you said.  But then he said oh well and summoned the wood dragon so it could solo.  I doubt he was going 100% against Guy, and then being playful with Naruto.  It makes more sense that he went at them both with the same level, and used appropriate levels of force against each of them.
> 
> Hmm.  Actually, my memory is a little fuzzy on the chronology, so I should re-read those chapters before I talk any more on them.



The bolded, can you reference me that point.

Because on my end I have _I was trying to hold back since you are the Jinchuuriki_ [1]. Where does it imply he wanted to have fun or was being playful, or he was having fun and being playful against Gai with his attacks? We don't know what happened off panel, for all we know Madara could have launched high level attacks one after the other, just look at the explosive power he was throwing at Bijuu Mode Naruto [2] and notice the large dust clouds following the attack [3]. So are you going to imply that Gai was taking those sorts of hits? If you are, are you ready to put a number on the amount of attacks was being thrown at Gai, considering he was taking the same level of punishment as BM Naruto and the Hachibi? The latter being knocked flat on the ground [4].


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 31, 2013)

Madara treats the world and all its people as toys for his own amusement.  It's explicitly stated to be his character.

So I'll just say if Madara wanted to kill Guy, or was fighting seriously, Guy would have been dead on the floor like the Raikage was.


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## Olympian (Jul 31, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Tsunade destroys him. She has better speed feats, better taijustu feats, far better durability, and wayyy better strentgh. She outclasses him in every possible albeit an Elemental affinity and range.



Better speed feats?  Let`s name them. 

Better range? By what, punching the floor and throw rocks? It`s not like Asuma isn`t use to fight strenght monsters and outmaneuver them. 

Tsunade is certainly above him,  but with this starting distance I don`t see how she "destroys" him. 



Likes boss said:


> Why is this debateable? Your comparing a Hokage to a Jounin. A Jounin who has never even been implied to be over Jounin. Tsunade beats all part 1 Jounin.



That`s a good thing then, that Asuma was among the first characters to consider himself "Elite" among Jonin.



Likes boss said:


> Feat wise these nuts. *He was equal to INO in taijustu, and got absolutely destroyed by Ino-Shika-Cho with little effort after they got serious*. Is that impressive to you?



You shouldn`t call anyone`s debating skills terrible and then deliver this gem of a summary. Ino wasn`t equal to Asuma in taijutsu, for one. What you mean is that Ino *and* Choji were going briefly back and forth against someone who wanted to be trapped and was still outmaneuvering them *until*  they came up with the *formation* that didn`t give any room for Asuma to outmaneuver at all. 

We have seen what Ino-Shika-Cho can do with the right formation, haven`t we? From dealing with Immortals to trapping the Golden Brothers. 



Likes boss said:


> Implication:Tsunade by far. Sannin>regular Jounin. She also the Hokage and is known as the strongest female Shinobi..



Which alone doesn`t give her the sure win at this *starting distance*, she isn`t above Asuma in every single stat. Speed being the one. And with Hien at that distance that gives her a problem.  



Likes boss said:


> And don't being up DB with me. It hasn't shown data regarding the war in which Tsunade gained a plethora of feats.



In case you haven`t noticed already, almost everybody gained new feats in the war.


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## LostSelf (Jul 31, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Madara treats the world and all its people as toys for his own amusement.  It's explicitly stated to be his character.
> 
> So I'll just say if Madara wanted to kill Guy, or was fighting seriously, Guy would have been dead on the floor like the Raikage was.



Why would Madara toy with Gai? So we can say that Gai took the same damage as the Hachibi? That's saying a lot then, especially for a guy that has been fighting much longer than the hokages and without the healing factor.

Gai would've been dead against a Madara using his full power, surely. So are the kages, who, after Madara stopped playing around, were kicked out quick. And considering that the Hachibi wouldn't call Madara a "piece of work" if he only used his Susano'o clones or something weaker than that, i bet that Madara used more firepower with them than with the five Kages. And Gai survived that.


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## Bonly (Jul 31, 2013)

As always when this thread gets brought up Asuma has the tools to win but Tsunade has better Feats+Portrayal on her side which has me favoring her more times then not.


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## Veracity (Jul 31, 2013)

Olympian said:


> Better speed feats?  Let`s name them.
> 
> Better range? By what, punching the floor and throw rocks? It`s not like Asuma isn`t use to fight strenght monsters and outmaneuver them.
> 
> ...



I'm not going to bother with you. You just asked me if Tsunade has better speed feats. While Asuma has been in 3 battles in which he showed virtually no impressive speed feats. While Tsunade tangoed with Oro, fought Madara, and fought side by side with Ay himself.

I must have worded that wrong, no, Asuma has better range and an elemental affinity. 

Starting range doesn't matter against a medical ninja known for evasion. His range abilities haven't even been shown to be quick nontheless.

Unless your Gai or Kakashi- Elite Jounin<Kage

That's basically what happened. Ino might not have been better, but she was able to keep up and even parry  his attacks. Tsunade could accomplish with ease with a simple kunai, and the strentgh begins a single hit would disarm him. That's cool, when Choji got serious, the battle was over instantly. Aside from blocking Kisame, Asuma has no seed feats. And if you want to debate about this, then show me some.

I'm case you didn't notice, Asuma didn't gain any feats. He didn't get better in any sense. Tsunade however gained a plethora of new and inpressive feats.


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## Hiko Seijurou (Jul 31, 2013)

Asuma blitzes,


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## Olympian (Aug 1, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> You just asked me if Tsunade has better speed feats. While Asuma has been in 3 battles in which he showed virtually no impressive speed feats. While Tsunade tangoed with Oro, fought Madara, and fought side by side with Ay himself..



Okay, then let`s pick those examples of Tsunade first: 

a) Tsunade "tangled" with Oro: what you really mean is that he was dancing around her with no arms and she hardly landed a blow for awhile. While I give her the point of doubt for having blood phobia in that instance, even later she didn`t demostrated taijutsu skill above the likes of Asuma and co. 

b) she fought Madara: you mean the Gokages fought Madara, when he was playing around. Now, again, it`s not like Asuma would do better, but aside one great speed moment, what major taijutsu skill did she showed?

Now Asuma, whom you claim have been in 3 fights and virtually showed no impressive speed feats: 

a) dodged Samehada at face range and landed a blow, surprising Kisame. We are talking of someone who has shown more taijutsu finesse than Tsunade here (Kisame) who tangled with Bee and Gai (notable taijutsu users above Tsunade in that regard) managing to defend himself of most blows. Asuma here showed something more than just punching and kicking.  He showed actual maneuverable skill and a fighting style (boxing). 

b) dodged and traded blows with Hidan, an acrobatic user, who was doing the exact very same against Kakashi with sharingan, even when Kazuku was not meddling in. You are going to mention Shikamaru`s back up and I will mention lack of knowledge on a jutsu already started. They both had aces. 

c) blocked Kazuku at a greater distance before Kazuku would punch Shikamaru who was already falling down. This one is just speed. 



Likes boss said:


> I must have worded that wrong, no, Asuma has better range and an elemental affinity.



Okay. 

Mind you, Tsunade does have pretty good range with just her physical attacks, but in this case she is facing someone use to fight abnormally strong characters with Futton to simply cut throught boulders if he wishes to. 



Likes boss said:


> Starting range doesn't matter against a medical ninja known for evasion. His range abilities haven't even been shown to be quick nontheless.



A medical ninja who has been hit in every single fight she`s been with...so, i wouldn`t word it as "doesn`t matter". It obviously does. 

The problem here is one: it`s only 15 meters and she`s against two futton blades who can actually extend themselves if Asuma wills it too. If he could easily extend one blade to a sword`s range *after* being burned in one hand and crippled in a leg, he can do it at start with no problem. 

But in character he won`t, which is why i know she will survive the first swings, the problem is Asuma tailing her at that distance the whole time. That is where her effort is going to be. 



Likes boss said:


> Unless your Gai or Kakashi- Elite Jounin<Kage



Kages aren`t universaly above the elite Jonin in *every single* stat, ability or skill. That`s not how it works. 



Likes boss said:


> That's basically what happened. Ino might not have been better, but she was able to keep up and even parry  his attacks.



Basically, it isn`t what happened, no. At one point Asuma was fighting Ino+Choji, Zetsu bodies and attacking Choja with nothing but a Kunai on his hand and his Katon. The problem of this team is that sooner or later a formation would catch him. Ino wasn`t parrying anything alone.



Likes boss said:


> Tsunade could accomplish with ease with a simple kunai, and the strentgh begins a single hit would disarm him. That's cool, when Choji got serious, the battle was over instantly. Aside from blocking Kisame, Asuma has no seed feats. And if you want to debate about this, then show me some.



Ah, none. 

a) dodging and hitting kisame

b) coming up with the plan to attack the immortal duo - intial ambush

c) dodging, fighting and tailing Hidan without knowledge against his blades and spears (look how Kakashi and knowledge and still couldn`t hit him). Hidan had lack of knowledge and adicional blades, Kakashi had sharingan, Asuma had Shikamaru. Everyone had something else. 

e) blocking Kazuku

f) killing entire squads as Edo

g) outmaneuvering the most upgraded team of the whole manga to the point where in mid-seals and dodging Shikamaru`s shadows, Ino still needed a prior warning to barely move Choji out of the way. 



Likes boss said:


> I'm case you didn't notice, Asuma didn't gain any feats. He didn't get better in any sense. Tsunade however gained a plethora of new and inpressive feats.



In case you didn`t notice Asuma gained new examples of his speed (dodging teamwork while doing hand-seals at the same time) and was awarded a whole new long range move. 

"Plethora", she showed some new speed examples that already I mentioned and a new chakra mode. Or am I missing something else?


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## Mithos (Aug 1, 2013)

Olympian said:


> a) Tsunade "tangled" with Oro: what you really mean is that he was dancing around her with no arms and she hardly landed a blow for awhile. While I give her the point of doubt for having blood phobia in that instance, even later she didn`t demostrated taijutsu skill above the likes of Asuma and co.



Orochimaru was running away from her, not engaging her in combat. So he was not "dancing around her." When he was near her and she was over her phobia, she had no problem hitting him [1]. He was watching her intently and noticed her trembling stopped, but he wasn't able to dodge her attack. 



Olympian said:


> a) dodged Samehada at face range and landed a blow, surprising Kisame. We are talking of someone who has shown more taijutsu finesse than Tsunade here (Kisame) who tangled with Bee and Gai (notable taijutsu users above Tsunade in that regard) managing to defend himself of most blows. Asuma here showed something more than just punching and kicking.  He showed actual maneuverable skill and a fighting style (boxing).



What "finesse" has Kisame ever shown? Tsunade has more skill in taijutsu than either Kisame or Asuma - she has a 5 in taijutsu compared to their 4.5s. 

Tsunade hasn't shown "actual maneuverable skill"? 

Tsunade has shown to react and evade an attack and then immediately counter-attack [2]. Instead of jumping to safety like many ninja would have done, she dodged in a way that let her go on the offensive. 

If you want to talk about "maneuverable skill," I would argue that Tsunade has shown more in this area. When Kabuto evaded her counter-attack and ended up behind her, she pushed off the ground with her hands and launched a kick at his head [3] This is pretty impressive; she can accurately target opponents when in bad positions and make the best of her situation with appropriate measures. She also has the "maneuverable skill" to readjust herself to slam into Kabuto to trade blows, because she couldn't evade due to being in mid-air. This is an important feat: she was able to strike Kabuto before he could move, due to momentum. This means that anyone who hits her in close combat risks being hit before they can move - speed and evasion ability may become irrelevant. Also if Kabuto didn't have the ability to negate her strength - which very few ninja have - he would have died by her counter-attack and she could have simply healed herself. Compare this feat with her Byakugou feats of being able to fight through life-threatening and crippling injuries as if she wasn't hurt at all and Asuma has to be very wary of slicing her, only to be punched or grabbed as she ignores the wound. He'll die and she'll regenerate. 





Olympian said:


> b) dodged and traded blows with Hidan, an acrobatic user, who was doing the exact very same against Kakashi with sharingan, even when Kazuku was not meddling in.



This works against you. He traded blows with Hidan, who is less skilled than Tsunade - like Asuma and Kisame, Hidan has a 4.5 in taijutsu to Tsunade's 5. If Hidan can trade blows and clash with Asuma, Tsunade should be able to connect a blow at some point, especially considering he cannot block her attacks. Kakashi, similarly, is also less skilled than Tsunade in taijutsu.


----------



## Veracity (Aug 1, 2013)

Olympian said:


> Okay, then let`s pick those examples of Tsunade first:
> 
> a) Tsunade "tangled" with Oro: what you really mean is that he was dancing around her with no arms and she hardly landed a blow for awhile. While I give her the point of doubt for having blood phobia in that instance, even later she didn`t demostrated taijutsu skill above the likes of Asuma and co.
> 
> ...



Damn Matto-sama coming to the rescue. But honestly, you made Asuma look worse in this post. Ima be bush for about 7 hours. I'll reply after.


----------



## Undead (Aug 1, 2013)




----------



## Veracity (Aug 1, 2013)

Olympian said:


> Okay, then let`s pick those examples of Tsunade first:
> 
> a) Tsunade "tangled" with Oro: what you really mean is that he was dancing around her with no arms and she hardly landed a blow for awhile. While I give her the point of doubt for having blood phobia in that instance, even later she didn`t demostrated taijutsu skill above the likes of Asuma and co.
> 
> ...



- doesn't change the fact that Oro couldn't get away form being brutally punched by Tsunade. He has legs you know? He can easily do this uncomplicated thing called dodging. On top of this, he can fight with his tongue and pull swords out of his mouth. All of this done when Tsunade was rusty. Oro had the speed and reflexes to dodge and land strikes on 4k Naruto. Mind you he even hit Naruto with his sword(mouth) just like Tsunade.

- She even defeated Kabuto(who was known to be on Kakashis level- Kakashi>Asuma) whilst her phobia and rusty.

- She fought in sequence with V1 Ay and Onnoki's flight speed, both far faster then Asuma. She even managed to intercept Madara's Katon before he other Kage could react. And if you think they planned this or were to "tired" to move, you should prove this. She also had striking speed comparable to Ay. 

A)- Matto-Sama explained this. Kisame isn't known for his great taijustu skill, and wasn't expecting someone to block it. 

B)- Hidan was already confirmed as the weakest and slowest Alastuki member. He also was parrying Asumaa attacks, ask thing that would disarm or break his arm if Tsunade did.

C)- Not all that impressive compared to War-arc Tsunade feats. Especially since it's from Kakuzu who isn't known for any speed.

She's been in two battles, one when she was completely rusty(against a ninja FAR stronger then Asuma) and the other against Madara Uchiha himself. How would she not get hit? And she allows herself to get hit because she can. She doesn't have to avoid every single hit if she has auto regen. 

And the fact that Sakura(her student;weaker in every aspect at the time) managed to dodge several of Sasoris assaults, implies that Tsunade(who is far greater at evasion and medic Pre cog) would be able to dodge Asumas assault.

- even at 15 meters, Tsunade with her superior speed can dodge his attacks.

- she's better then Asuma at almost everything. She's far stronger

B)- but his plan failed

E)- not a speedster.

F)- fodder ninja.

G- He dodged for a split second then got absolutely decimated by Chojj. That's cool.


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## joshhookway (Aug 1, 2013)

Asuma wins with lightsabers


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## Olympian (Aug 6, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> Orochimaru was running away from her, not engaging her in combat. So he was not "dancing around her."



absorb Jinton before during the fight
absorb Jinton before during the fight
absorb Jinton before during the fight

She was just trying to *kill* them. And what about Kabuto?

absorb Jinton before during the fight

"Out of breath" already over someone who conceed wasn`t as good in Taijutsu as Kakashi. Like he conceeds again (this time more gerenally speaking) in that very page. And this was before the soldier pill came in. 



Matto-sama said:


> What "finesse" has Kisame ever shown? Tsunade has more skill in taijutsu than either Kisame or Asuma - she has a 5 in taijutsu compared to their 4.5s.


. 

That`s Databook. You want to see Tsunade`s Taijutsu "finesse"?

absorb Jinton before during the fight

Mostly hitting and kicking. Kisame shows he can defend and block (moving Samehada or his whole body) moves from Gai and Killer Bee. 



Matto-sama said:


> Tsunade hasn't shown "actual maneuverable skill"?.



Yes, she has. 
absorb Jinton before during the fight

But her fighting style is more linear, which allows her to be hit..
absorb Jinton before during the fight

..despite the fact the guy claims he`s no good at Taijutsu (which is why he took the pill in the first place). But for someone who should be so good at evasion..

Personally i was a bit more impressed at Asuma performing hand-seals and dodge Kagemane *at the same time* while *still redirecting himself *to Choji`s *direction *before firing the attack. 



Matto-sama said:


> Tsunade has shown to react and evade an attack and then immediately counter-attack [2]. Instead of jumping to safety like many ninja would have done, she dodged in a way that let her go on the offensive.



Don`t interely disagree, The others simply got more examples of it. She also gets hit more often if you notice: 
Asuma was cut by Samehada, but that was because he had shit idea what Samehada was (scarps) and believed it was just a normal blade. Even then, that was when they were simply having a strength contest, not boxing (which is how Kisame was cut in return). 

He was hit by Hidan, when Hidan had already started a jutsu he knew nothing about and threw adicional blades at the same time he was defending from other swords Both of these are more circumstancial than the time Tsunade is usually hit on open combat. 

Even against Team 10 in the War, despite not having his chosen weapons. 



Matto-sama said:


> This works against you. He traded blows with Hidan, who is less skilled than Tsunade - like Asuma and Kisame, Hidan has a 4.5 in taijutsu to Tsunade's 5.



In the Databook it also shows Asuma as a whole tier of speed above Hidan, despite the fact Hidan never had trouble tailing or following along Sharingan, Asuma himself or a Bijuu. 

It could be just the acrobatic fighting style, sure, but then again, Tsunade never faced anyone like that that we know. Asuma has faced abnormally strong people, twice that we have seen.


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## Frawstbite (Aug 6, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Feat wise these nuts. He was equal to INO in taijustu, and got absolutely destroyed by Ino-Shika-Cho with little effort after they got serious. Is that impressive to you?



 I'm no fan of Asuma, but give him some credit.

Consider for a moment that team 10 has the best teamwork in all of Konoha, no doubt. Consider that because of this, and the fact that they have been closely fighting and training together for years, Ino should know her teamates fighting styles like the back of her hand. Based on the teamwork presented, she clearly does. If anyone can combat Asuma's fighting style it should be a member of team 10. That's a level that goes beyond even full knowledge.

To think that Ino is equal or even close to Asuma in Taijutsu is completely ridiculous in every sense. To make a case for Tsunade (though I'm sure she'd win as well) you should do it without drastically diminishing Asuma's CQC, which is pretty decent to say the least.


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## Bansai (Aug 6, 2013)

This isn't even worth discussing. Why do you think Tsunade became Hokage? Why do you think she was part of the Sannin? Why do you think she was the only one who actually FOUGHT Madara instead of just protecting each other like the other Kages did? 
This is the seconds Asuma vs Tsunade thread and I keep asking myself what the hell makes people think she's so weak? I've already read posts which stated that Tsunade loses against Kakashi, Yamato, Gai, Asuma, Hiashi, Neji, Choji etc. despite of what we've seen from her during her fight against Madara. So basically, she is not just considered the weakest Jounin by some people, but also inferior to some Chuunins. I don't know where this underestimation comes from, but it's getting more and more ridiculous.


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## Axiom (Aug 6, 2013)

I think Asuma could probably get in a few scratches on Tsunade, but she's much too competent to let him straight swipe off her head or even a limb.  Tsunade will take whatever scratches Asuma gives her, she won't mind, and eventually she'll land a blow on him; he can't dodge forever.

Without Katsyuya, Tsunade takes it mid-high diff.  Katsyuya solos low diff.


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## Bonly (Aug 6, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> Why do you think Tsunade became Hokage?



Because Hiruzen died, Jiraiya didn't want the job, Naruto changed her mind, and she's a strong famous ninja.



> Why do you think she was part of the Sannin?



She was with the other two members of the Sannin who fought and lost against Hanzo and he chose to let them live and gave them said title. 



> Why do you think she was the only one who actually FOUGHT Madara instead of just protecting each other like the other Kages did?



What do you mean by this? Are you referring to her attacking as well as helping other because if so you do realize the other Kages were shown offensively attacking Madara as well as helping other like she was right?


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## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 6, 2013)

Frawstbite said:


> I'm no fan of Asuma, but give him some credit.
> 
> Consider for a moment that team 10 has the best teamwork in all of Konoha, no doubt. Consider that because of this, and the fact that they have been closely fighting and training together for years, Ino should know her teamates fighting styles like the back of her hand. Based on the teamwork presented, she clearly does. If anyone can combat Asuma's fighting style it should be a member of team 10. That's a level that goes beyond even full knowledge.
> 
> To think that Ino is equal or even close to Asuma in Taijutsu is completely ridiculous in every sense. To make a case for Tsunade (though I'm sure she'd win as well) you should do it without drastically diminishing Asuma's CQC, which is pretty decent to say the least.



While I appreciate the logic invested into that point, I disagree with your general conclusion. Even if Ino did manage to know Asuma's taijutsu style off the back of her hand, it in know way means she could do anything about it if he started attacking her. Knowing something is one thing, but being able to _accomplish_ it is another. Given that Ino was _admittedly_ (and _evidently_) poor in close combat by around the time of Asuma's death, she obviously grew in competence at taijutsu a long time _after_ his death. Furthermore, her reaction speed and evasive ability was impressive even outside of that CQC scuffle with Asuma, so she's obviously grown in competence.

That said, she's still no taijutsu expert. If someone with above average skill in taijutsu is able to parry and block Asuma's blows, then Tsunade would have a field day at it. However, unlike Ino, Tsunade has evasive and anticipatory skills alongside her ability to block or parry Asuma's attacks. Tsunade's speed feats as of her fight against Madara are more than enough to show she can react to Asuma's attacks just fine, and she has a .5 higher than him taijutsu.

If all else fails she has the Shosen to patch her up, or Sozou Saisei if she lets her guard down for some reason. Byakugou really shouldn't be necessary. At any rate, Asuma doesn't give her too much difficulty.​​


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## Frawstbite (Aug 6, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> While I appreciate the logic invested into that point, I disagree with your general conclusion. Even if Ino did manage to know Asuma's taijutsu style off the back of her hand, it in know way means she could do anything about it if he started attacking her. Knowing something is one thing, but being able to _accomplish_ it is another. Given that Ino was _admittedly_ (and _evidently_) poor in close combat by around the time of Asuma's death, she obviously grew in competence at taijutsu a long time _after_ his death. Furthermore, her reaction speed and evasive ability was impressive even outside of that CQC scuffle with Asuma, so she's obviously grown in competence.​




Asuma was to be considered an enemy. If you know of the Raikage's speed for example, you're going to want to prepare for that however you can. Are you saying that knowledge of your enemy doesn't help your skills in reacting? It certainly does, Killer Bee was able to somewhat react to Hirashin when his speed is nowhere near comparable to it. He had only seen it briefly at that time. Ino had the luxury of complete and total knowledge, and speed gap that is not absolutely massive. 

Ino for example would probably know Asuma's general tactics, and is able to consider what he is going to do. He did teach her the basics, I'm sure. Assuming he did, he had likely used the same tactics against their team before, tactics she would know how to deal with. 

What is wrong about me saying that her taijutsu (lack of blade skill, hien, raw strength, ability to clash with Hidan, taking out multiple chuunin opponents in pure CQC with no trouble, etc) is nowhere near comparable to Asuma? Taijutsu is more than just reaction, of course. What taijutsu skill does she have that puts her anywhere near him, who was said (if you believe in hype, you favor Tsunade so I'm guessing you do) to be the best in this art, at least in part one? Actions speak louder than words.

What part of my conclusion do you disagree with? All I gather from this post is that Ino is not good at taijutsu, by her own statement. 

Your post doesn't say what specific part you disagree with, just a lot about how you think Ino is better than I give her credit for. I'm not even sure how to reply to it.



> That said, she's still no taijutsu expert. If someone with above average skill in taijutsu is able to parry and block Asuma's blows, then Tsunade would have a field day at it. However, unlike Ino, Tsunade has evasive and anticipatory skills alongside her ability to block or parry Asuma's attacks. Tsunade's speed feats as of her fight against Madara are more than enough to show she can react to Asuma's attacks just fine, and she has a .5 higher than him taijutsu.
> 
> If all else fails she has the Shosen to patch her up, or Sozou Saisei if she lets her guard down for some reason. Byakugou really shouldn't be necessary. At any rate, Asuma doesn't give her too much difficulty.


​
Show me Ino's "above average" taijutsu skills outside of her fight with someone she knew all too well. Hinata in part one, who could parry Neji's blows had above average taijutsu skills. Ino could not hope to do this even now. Neji always had chuunin level talent in CQC skills. It is not obvious to me that she has improved in this area since the immortal duo fight. 

I already said Tsuande would win, unless that part of the post isn't directed at me.


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## Bansai (Aug 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Because Hiruzen died, Jiraiya didn't want the job, Naruto changed her mind, and she's a strong famous ninja.



Okay, then tell me: What the hell would have stopped the elders from picking any other Jounin instead of her? Tsunade wasn't even available at that moment. They could have just suggested to ask Kakashi, Gai, Asuma, Kurenai, Yamato or whoever to take this job, becauce they were actually around. And as you saw, convincing Kakashi to take the Hokage's seat wasn't hard at all. It would have been so easy to just pick any Jounin, so why did they agree to Jiraiya's idea to bring Tsunade, a woman who left her village ages ago. 




Bonly said:


> She was with the other two members of the Sannin who fought and lost against Hanzo and he chose to let them live and gave them said title.


And she did nothing during that fight? 




Bonly said:


> What do you mean by this? Are you referring to her attacking as well as helping other because if so you do realize the other Kages were shown offensively attacking Madara as well as helping other like she was right?



No, I'm saying that she was in the spotlight during that fight. After Tsunade activated her regeneration technique, she was the only one who attacked Madara. The rest of the Kages (except for Onoki) was almost useless during the fight. The other three didn't do shit when it came to combat. They did okay when it came to protecting each other, but protecting each other doesn't hurt your opponent either. Blocking a few attacks and protecting the others isn't what makes you a combatant. Fighting the opponent does.


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## Axiom (Aug 6, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> No, I'm saying that she was in the spotlight during that fight. After Tsunade activated her regeneration technique, she was the only one who attacked Madara. The rest of the Kages (except for Onoki) was almost useless during the fight. The other three didn't do shit when it came to combat. They did okay when it came to protecting each other, but protecting each other doesn't hurt your opponent either. Blocking a few attacks and protecting the others isn't what makes you a combatant. Fighting the opponent does.



Not really.  I mean, in the final attack that forces out Susano'o, Tsunade pumped chakra into Onoki, who launched a massive jinton that destroyed all of the Susano'o clones, which was followed up by a water dragon from Mei, which Ei flowed raiton into, which was hiding Gaara's sand that was supposed to trap Madara so that Onoki could jinton him, thus giving Gaara time to seal him with his sand.

Pretty much a collaborative effort right there.

That aside, Tsunade did have the one punch on the Mokuton Bunshin which Gaara quickly followed up with a sealing temple.  But that was all part of Madara's plan.  She cracked a Susano'o rib once and that was nice but it didn't really accomplish a whole lot.

Other than that, Tsunade blocked those Katons, Onoki decimated the one Katon and deactivated his 5 Susano'o opponents.  Tsunade really wasn't head and shoulders above the rest of the kage.  I'd probably rank her contribution second behind Onoki, with Gaara not far behind and then Mei and Ei tied for last, but she wasn't doing so much that Gaara, Ei, and Mei all paled in comparison.  They certainly were all necessary to force Madara into PS.


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## Mithos (Aug 6, 2013)

Olympian said:


> 2
> 2
> 2
> 
> ...



I don't understand how those scans are relevant. Yes she was trying to kill them. But they were also running away from her, not fighting her. 



Olympian said:


> "Out of breath" already over someone who conceed wasn`t as good in Taijutsu as Kakashi. Like he conceeds again (this time more gerenally speaking) in that very page. And this was before the soldier pill came in.



Tsunade was 20+ years out of practice; she was incredibly rusty and out of shape. The manga stated this on more than one occasion. 

Jiraiya acknowledged it: "In her fallen state..." 

In fact, Kabuto was very impressed that she was as powerful as she was considering how long it had been: "In spite of all these years spent away from battle, she still has this power..." 

Tsunade admits she's no longer in her 'prime.'

The Tsunade in this match is no longer out of shape. We've seen her latest performance against Madara with the Gokage. She had no problem fighting all day, and even using Byakugou for hours - so long it turned from day to night. She's not going to run out of breath against Asuma now. 

Kabuto needed to make Tsunade exhausted and then replenish his stamina and boost his speed before he even dared to go near her. I think that's pretty telling.  



Olympian said:


> That`s Databook. You want to see Tsunade`s Taijutsu "finesse"?
> 
> 2
> 
> Mostly hitting and kicking. Kisame shows he can defend and block (moving Samehada or his whole body) moves from Gai and Killer Bee.



The DB is made by the author. He tells us that Tsunade is a taijutsu master, giving her a maxed out stat in hand-to-hand skill. 

That scan doesn't say anything since, as I said before, they were running away from her and waiting for her to become exhausted. That is not a possible scenario here now that Tsunade is not out of shape. Kisame has defended against Gai and Bee - but he has also taken hits from them too. And one hit is all Tsunade needs. 



Olympian said:


> Yes, she has.
> to night
> 
> But her fighting style is more linear, which allows her to be hit..
> ...



First, she was not able to evade because she was in mid-air. And even then she was able to reposition herself to slam into Kabuto as he made contact with her. If he hadn't had the unique ability to negate her strength by cutting her muscles, he would have died by her counter-attack. Asuma can't negate her strength so if they trade blows he's going to die. 



Olympian said:


> Personally i was a bit more impressed at Asuma performing hand-seals and dodge Kagemane *at the same time* while *still redirecting himself *to Choji`s *direction *before firing the attack.



Okay, that's your opinion. However I don't see the situations comparable at all. 



Olympian said:


> Don`t interely disagree, The others simply got more examples of it. She also gets hit more often if you notice:
> Asuma was cut by Samehada, but that was because he had shit idea what Samehada was (scarps) and believed it was just a normal blade. Even then, that was when they were simply having a strength contest, not boxing (which is how Kisame was cut in return).



Tsunade has been hit on some occasions, yes. But she has also landed many attacks on her opponents as well. In all of her fights she has landed some form of attack. Asuma cannot avoid being hit forever. 

If Asuma is even grazed by Tsunade he will lose control of his body because of Ranshinshou. He only scratched Kisame. And even if he cuts her deep, she can regenerate. 



Olympian said:


> He was hit by Hidan, when Hidan had already started a jutsu he knew nothing about and threw adicional blades at the same time he was defending from other swords Both of these are more circumstancial than the time Tsunade is usually hit on open combat.



What do you mean by "open combat"? Do you mean when she was in the air after being purposely exhausted (due to being out of shape) against a full stamina, boosted opponent? And even then that didn't stop her from hitting Kabuto. Do you mean when Kabuto paralyzed her with her fear of blood (also no longer relevant) and then punched her? Or do you mean when she was shielding Naruto from Orochimaru? Most of the times she has been hit were very circumstantial. 

Do you mean against 5 Susano'o clones? Each mokuton Susano'o clone is a bigger and more powerful threat than Asuma and she was - thanks to Byakugou - surviving their attacks and smashing them around. 



Olympian said:


> Even against Team 10 in the War, despite not having his chosen weapons.



None of Team 10 is a tier 5 master of taijutsu that can kill him with a single hit, or paralyze him with a graze. 



Olympian said:


> In the Databook it also shows Asuma as a whole tier of speed above Hidan, despite the fact Hidan never had trouble tailing or following along Sharingan, Asuma himself or a Bijuu.
> 
> It could be just the acrobatic fighting style, sure, but then again, Tsunade never faced anyone like that that we know. Asuma has faced abnormally strong people, twice that we have seen.



Or skill in taijutsu is more important than physical movement speed, as long as both opponents can react to each other. 

Sure Asuma has fought strong people. I'm not saying he's weak. But Tsunade is on a different level than him. She is pratically immortal with Byakugou, has a giant summon that can defeat Asuma on her own, and is more skilled in CQC than him. He doesn't have much of a chance here.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 6, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> This isn't a rape stomp but no way in hell can Asuma win this in your wildest dreams. Think about it. Tier gap in speed. So irrelevant. She is better in taijutsu though. She is also stupid strong. So her unarming Asuma is one hell of a possibility. Katon or fuuton? She can avoid them. No Katsuya required. Hell no byakugou required. This fight is going to come down to CQC and who is more skilled here and Tsunade has the better chance of disarming him/landing one hit then Asuma does at landing multiple hits.
> 
> Tsunade wins when I restricted her of all ninjutsu. Is Asuma weak? Hell no. Elite Jounin. But Tsunade just needs to land a hit and against a CQC specialist who isn't as skilled as Tsunade, I am giving it to her every time. If she actually used ninjutsu it would be a stomp. Honestly, unbalanced match up.



She is faster than Asume?
She is better at taijutsu?
Really? 

Then why did she lose to kabuto's taijutsu, and he doesn't even consider himself that good at it!


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## Bonly (Aug 7, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> Okay, then tell me: What the hell would have stopped the elders from picking any other Jounin instead of her? Tsunade wasn't even available at that moment. They could have just suggested to ask Kakashi, Gai, Asuma, Kurenai, Yamato or whoever to take this job, becauce they were actually around. And as you saw, convincing Kakashi to take the Hokage's seat wasn't hard at all. It would have been so easy to just pick any Jounin, so why did they agree to Jiraiya's idea to bring Tsunade, a woman who left her village ages ago.



 You asked why she was Hokage and I gave you the answer. Had Hiruzen lived, she wouldn't be Hokage. Had Jiraiya chose to take the seat, she wouldn't have been Hokage. Had Naruto not changed her mind eventually then she wouldn't have been Hokage. Simple as that, those reasons along with her being strong and famous is why she was picked to be the Hokage. I couldn't care less how you try to rationalize it above as what I said is the truth. 



> And she did nothing during that fight?



Wouldn't know, it was off panel. Doesn't really change the fact that she was given the title just because she managed to live to a certain point  just like Jiraiya+Orochi were only given the title because they managed to live to a certain point, but ok.  






> No, I'm saying that she was in the spotlight during that fight. After Tsunade activated her regeneration technique, she was the only one who attacked Madara. The rest of the Kages (except for Onoki) was almost useless during the fight. The other three didn't do shit when it came to combat. They did okay when it came to protecting each other, but protecting each other doesn't hurt your opponent either. Blocking a few attacks and protecting the others isn't what makes you a combatant. Fighting the opponent does.



So did you just not read the manga or do you have a different definition of what attacking someone is? Mei and the Onoki+A backpack combo attacked Madara right after Tsunade used her regen. Based on what was shown Tsunade had hit Madara(or his Susanoo) a few times before the clones came out as well as pump chakra into Onoki. If you read the entire fight that we have seen, you will see that A+Mei hit Madara(or his SUsanoo) with offensive attacks just as many times with their attacks. You can think Tsunade had the spotlight but to say the other three did shit when it comes to combat is almost outright false. Gaara is so far the only one that comes to mind that didn't do much offensively beside sealing up a clone.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> She is pratically immortal with Byakugou, .



She isn't immortal.   She can heal fatal wounds for a short period of time, and then she wrinkles up like an old prune.  She will likely die the next time she uses that ability to heal a massive wound again.  If Asuma could push her that far, then it is at least a draw for him.


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## SuperSaqer (Aug 7, 2013)

Asuma is shit tier. Tsunade punches mud holes out of him.


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## SuperSaqer (Aug 7, 2013)

FairyTailisBack said:


> She is faster than Asume?
> She is better at taijutsu?
> Really?
> 
> Then why did she lose to kabuto's taijutsu, and he doesn't even consider himself that good at it!


She had a psychological problem at that time. She gets paralyzed when she sees blood.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

SuperSaqer said:


> She had a psychological problem at that time. She gets paralyzed when she sees blood.



She was getting her ass kicked long before kabuto stabbed himself in the hand.

Her Taijutsu and Speed are only jounin level!  She has tons of power, but what good is it if she can't land any hits?
Her medical ninjutsu is what makes her Kage!


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## FlamingRain (Aug 7, 2013)

Asuma's abilities are being grossly exaggerated if people believe he seriously has a chance of contending with _any_ Kage level shinobi. Asuma was nothing more than your standard sensei used to hype the Akatsuki as being worlds apart from your typical tough guy and drive Team 10?s maturity, with nothing important or powerful enough to merit such substantial emphasis as to be placed against one of the Legendary Sannin whatsoever. He _is not_ one of the exceptions to the Kage > Jōnin rule like Kakashi or Gai (who have both shown that they can actually hang with the Akatsuki "way stronger" than Asuma, with one even being considered for the position of a Kage).

On the other hand it was Tsunade whose power even while two decades rusty mandated that another elite Jōnin initially flee until she had exhausted herself before taking ninja steroids prior to actually engaging her in combat behind a Jutsu that could negate her strength, and even then said elite Jōnin had to resort to using her phobia against her because he was admittedly still being outclassed even without her regeneration or summoning making an appearance. Currently she's back in shape, practice, and she's not hemophobic anymore. The woman calls upon gigantic nigh-invulnerable acid spitting animals, shatters ribcage _Susano'o_, and smacks away atmosphere changing Katons after contending with five sword-wielding Edo Madara _Susano'o_ clones simultaneously for an extended amount of time through grievous wounds. The message of superiority couldn't be made more clear if Kishimoto came out and said _"Tsunade will wreck Asuma"_.

----------------------

Anyway, _Katon: Haisekishō_ and _Fūton: Fūjin no Jutsu_ are dodged. Tsunade should be able to outperform Asuma in straight up Taijutsu; I've more faith in her aim-dodging the invisible _Hien_ and obliterating Asuma with a retaliatory strike carrying the strength of a hundred at some point than him managing to do achieve anything meaningful against her. The terrain is also going to be in a constant state of upheaval and problems on the ground have actually already worked to create an opening against Asuma when he was fighting Team 10. I doubt she'll ever need to rely on _Sōzō Saisei_ or _Byakugō no Jutsu_ but they're still there to use, as are _Shōsen Jutsu_ and _Ranshinshō_.

In addition to that, there is still the beast that is Katsuyu, and the perpetually dividing giant slug would go unaffected by anything in Asuma's primarily slice and dice arsenal while trying to get him back with _Zesshi Nensan_ sprays, or trying to roll on top of him and crush him if Tsunade doesn't just summon her _on top of_ Asuma.

I'm certain Tsunade crushes him every time.


----------



## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Asuma's abilities are being grossly exaggerated if people believe he seriously has a chance of contending with _any_ Kage level shinobi. Asuma was nothing more than your standard sensei used to hype the Akatsuki as being worlds apart from your typical tough guy and drive Team 10’s maturity, with nothing important or powerful enough to merit such substantial emphasis as to be placed against one of the Legendary Sannin whatsoever. He _is not_ one of the exceptions to the Kage > Jōnin rule like Kakashi or Gai (who have both shown that they can actually hang with the Akatsuki "way stronger" than Asuma, with one even being considered for the position of a Kage).
> 
> On the other hand it was Tsunade whose power even while two decades rusty mandated that another elite Jōnin initially flee until she had exhausted herself before taking ninja steroids prior to actually engaging her in combat behind a Jutsu that could negate her strength, and even then said elite Jōnin had to resort to using her phobia against her because he was admittedly still being outclassed even without her regeneration or summoning making an appearance. Currently she's back in shape, practice, and she's not hemophobic anymore. The woman calls upon gigantic nigh-invulnerable acid spitting animals, shatters ribcage _Susano'o_, and smacks away atmosphere changing Katons after contending with five sword-wielding Edo Madara _Susano'o_ clones simultaneously for an extended amount of time through grievous wounds. The message of superiority couldn't be made more clear if Kishimoto came out and said _"Tsunade will wreck Asuma"_.
> 
> ...



Now to be fair, Asuma only lost to Hidan because his ability was hacks.  
Would Kakashi or Gai have faired any better given the same knowledge?

If Tsunade summoned her slug, then maybe Asuma would summon the monkey king Enma.  He isn't shown to use that skill, but the summoning technique is a pretty low level technique and quite common with the series.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 7, 2013)

FairyTailisBack said:


> Now to be fair, Asuma only lost to Hidan because his ability was hacks.



Tell that to Asuma, who seemed to believe Hidan was simply his superior by a large margin.



> Would Kakashi or Gai have faired any better given the same knowledge?



Yes.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Tell that to Asuma, who seemed to believe Hidan was simply his superior by a large margin.
> 
> Yes.



What?  Asuma never said Hidan was stronger than he was by a large margin.

No, they would have died as well.
Sorry, that is just the way it is.  You had to have prior knowledge of his abilities in order to counter Hidan.  Well that or just be ridiculously stronger than he is so you never get a single scratch.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 7, 2013)

FairyTailisBack said:


> What?  Asuma never said Hidan was stronger than he was by a large margin.



Yes he did. _(1)_



> No, they would have died as well.



We saw Hidan fight Kakashi with the aid of Kakuzu's masks, and he didn't get anywhere, he only got left in the dust long enough for Kakashi to jump across the field and save Shikamaru and Chōji from _Raiton: Gian_.

Gai would have stolen the scythe like he stole Samehada after Hidan's first miss _(2)_, then proceeded to break all of Hidan's bones.


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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 7, 2013)

*Let the record show...*



FairyTailisBack said:


> Her medical ninjutsu is what makes her Kage!



*slowclap*


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## Axiom (Aug 7, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Yes he did. _(1)_



For one thing, they hadn't fought at all at that point in time.

For another, at the beginning of this discussion you dismissed Hidan's curse as irrelevant to the fact that Hidan killed Asuma, but that's entirely relevant to the point.  Without that trick up his sleeve, it would have been a pretty even fight.  Asuma admitted Hidan was stronger, but without the curse/immortality, there really was a negligible gap, which was FairyTail's point from the start.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Yes he did. _(1)_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He said that before they even fought, lol.  It is a good guess since their intel states they are all near Kage level and the guy was immortal!   Heck, he only got scratched because he was trying to cover for the kids.  He was right though, they are stronger than he is.  However, they were stronger than Kakashi too!!!  After shikamaru leads Hidan away, Kakuzu proceeds to whip Kakashi's ass, despite being down one heart.

Kakashi said he would be dead if not for his sharingan during that battle.
Break all of his bones?  WTF are you smoking?  You are just making a huge ass assumption about the fight that have no basis.


----------



## Rosencrantz (Aug 7, 2013)

FairyTailisBack said:


> She is faster than Asume?
> She is better at taijutsu?
> Really?
> 
> Then why did she lose to kabuto's taijutsu, and he doesn't even consider himself that good at it!



Speed gap is negligible. She is indeed better in taijutsu. And if she touches him he dies. She doesn't need ninjutsu to win.

She didn't lose to Kabuto's taijutsu. Kabuto used her hemophobia against her. Kabuto also fought an exhausted and rusty Tsunade. He also used Doton and chakra scapel. That should answer your questions. Oh and she didn't use Katsuya, Byakugou, or Genesis Rebirth. A rusty exhausted Tsunade had a draw with a Kakashi level combatant without using Katsuya, Byakugou, or Genesis Rebirth. Tsunade obviously wins this.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Speed gap is negligible. She is indeed better in taijutsu. And if she touches him he dies. She doesn't need ninjutsu to win.
> 
> She didn't lose to Kabuto's taijutsu. Kabuto used her hemophobia against her. Kabuto also fought an exhausted and rusty Tsunade. He also used Doton and chakra scapel. That should answer your questions. Oh and she didn't use Katsuya, Byakugou, or Genesis Rebirth. A rusty exhausted Tsunade had a draw with a Kakashi level combatant without using Katsuya, Byakugou, or Genesis Rebirth. Tsunade obviously wins this.



I like when people argue that the battle would have been won if they had used different techniques, lol.  Most ridiculous argument of all time.

Forget about all these FACTS...speh.
If she had done x, y, and then z she would have won!

Look, all I am saying is that
Tsunade is a low tier Kage.
Asuma is an elite Jounin.  
Kakashi/Gai are elite Jounin to low tier Kage.

Tsunade would probably win against Asuma, but there isn't a huge gap like some people seem to think.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 7, 2013)

Axiom said:


> For one thing, they hadn't fought at all at that point in time.
> 
> For another, at the beginning of this discussion you dismissed Hidan's curse as irrelevant to the fact that Hidan killed Asuma, but that's entirely relevant to the point.  Without that trick up his sleeve, it would have been a pretty even fight.  Asuma admitted Hidan was stronger, but without the curse/immortality, there really was a negligible gap, which was FairyTail's point from the start.



They kind of _had_, though, and because of it Asuma had just found out Hidan was invulnerable and very skilled with his weapon. Shikamaru had just figured that even his _Kagenui_ "couldn't keep up with that kind of power". Asuma had enough to go on to make the statement that he did.

And I did no such dismissing, I'm not sure where you're drawing that from. Kakashi does not need prior knowledge of the ritual to avoid being hit by the scythe, neither does Gai. Hidan's ability is part of what makes Hidan, well, Hidan anyway. This is like saying Lee would have beaten Gaara without sand clones, except that doesn't mean Lee beats Gaara because Gaara _has_ sand clones. Kishimoto did not have Asuma say "_*way*_ stronger" for us to think "negligible gap", come on now.



FairyTailisBack said:


> He said that before they even fought, lol.  It is a good guess since their intel states they are all near Kage level.  He is right, they are stronger than he is.  However, they were stronger than Kakashi too.  After shikamaru leads Hidan away, Kakuzu proceeds to whip Kakashi's ass, despite being down one heart.
> 
> Kakashi said he would be dead if not for his sharingan during that battle.
> Break all of his bones?  WTF are you smoking?



He said that after he found out his opponent was invulnerable and a weapon master. I'm very reluctant to believe either Hidan or Kakuzu are strong_er_, let alone _way_ stronger, than Kakashi when working together and not managing to kill him, with Kakuzu only managing to get a hold of him after Kakashi had used _Raikiri_ for the third time that day. Kakuzu wasn't down to one heart either, he was down to four, and then three, and was about to eat a _Kamui_ and be down to zero. Actually I misread that, but he was about to be down to zero hearts after _Kamui_.

The _Sharingan_ is what makes Kakashi Kakashi. It doesn't matter what would have happened without it, what's reflective of his strength is what would have happened _with it_, because it is a part of him.

And yes Gai can break all of the bones of a Hidan with no scythe.


----------



## Rosencrantz (Aug 7, 2013)

FairyTailisBack said:


> I like when people argue that the battle would have been won if they had used different techniques, lol.  Most ridiculous argument of all time.
> 
> Forget about all these FACTS...speh.
> If she had done x, y, and then z she would have won!
> ...



You mean her three strongest jutsu? It's laughable that you can think a shinobi who is rusty, exhausted and did not use her three strongest jutsu, is on the same level of someone who does. If Itachi loses without the Mangekyou than that's the worst argument ever? Just sounds ignorant. Tsunade fought someone stronger than Asuma without her three strongest techniques and while rusty and exhausted and she still forced a draw. This means Tsunade is far stronger.

Tsunade is beyond Low Kage level. Mid Kage level. She beats the hell out of Asuma without ninjutsu.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> They kind of _had_, though, and because of it Asuma had just found out Hidan was invulnerable and very skilled with his weapon. Shikamaru had just figured that even his _Kagenui_ "couldn't keep up with that kind of power". Asuma had enough to go on to make the statement that he did.
> 
> And I did no such dismissing, I'm not sure where you're drawing that from. Kakashi does not need prior knowledge of the ritual to avoid being hit by the scythe, neither does Gai. Hidan's ability is part of what makes Hidan, well, Hidan anyway. This is like saying Lee would have beaten Gaara without sand clones, except that doesn't mean Lee beats Gaara because Gaara _has_ sand clones. Kishimoto did not have Asuma say "_*way*_ stronger" for us to think "negligible gap", come on now.




He hadn't even used his weapon!  
Shikamaru had just caught him, so Idk wtf you are talking about.
He just found out he was immortal and his intel said they are all kage level shinobi!
It is called context dude!!!




FlamingRain said:


> He said that after he found out his opponent was invulnerable and a weapon master. I'm very reluctant to believe either Hidan or Kakuzu are strong_er_, let alone _way_ stronger, than Kakashi when working together and not managing to kill him, with Kakuzu only managing to get a hold of him after Kakashi had used _Raikiri_ for the third time that day. Kakuzu wasn't down to one heart either, he was down to four, and then three, and was about to eat a _Kamui_ and be down to zero.
> 
> The _Sharingan_ is what makes Kakashi Kakashi. It doesn't matter what would have happened without it, what's reflective of his strength is what would have happened _with it_, because it is a part of him.
> 
> And yes Gai can break all of the bones of a Hidan with no scythe.


A weapon master, before he even touched his weapon?  LOL

(2)

Kakazu whipped kakashi's ass despite being down one heart!
If it wasn't for shikamaru and pure luck he would be DEAD!

Ahh, no that kamui would have only consumed the huge fireball about to kill them all.
At which point kakashi would have been woozy, and likely killed soon after.


Against Hidan any seemingly favorable exchange is always a loss against Hidan.
One drop of blood and he wins!


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## FlamingRain (Aug 7, 2013)

FairyTailisBack said:


> He hadn't even used his weapon!



So Hidan magically deflected those projectiles with that wire that's a part of his scythe, without using his scythe. . .



> Shikamaru had just caught him, so Idk wtf you are talking about.



I'm talking about where Shikamaru thinks it himself.



> He just found out he was immortal and his intel said they are all kage level shinobi!
> It is called context dude!!!



And we're supposed to then somehow determine that the gap is negligible despite everything pointing in the other direction and saying it's big? And you get onto me about context?

Well I'm done here.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

Lol, ok.  So he used it for 1 second.   Obviously enough to know he was a weapon master, lol.  
A genin could have deflected that shit!  It was a distraction!

Hidan is the weakest of the Akatsuki dude.  
It is his immortality and ritual that make him so strong!


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## SuperSaqer (Aug 7, 2013)

Tsunade is like the second strongest or the third strongest kage. Asuma is nothing.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

SuperSaqer said:


> Tsunade is like the second strongest or the third strongest kage. Asuma is nothing.



Lol, what are you smoking?  Get Tsunade's tits out of your mouth!
Tsunade wouldn't stand a chance in hell against any other kage that ever lived.


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## Mercurial (Aug 7, 2013)

Tsunade is one of the worst kage and S rank, in terms of general strength/fighting skill, but she is strong don't make she as she were a pitiful pussy

I think here it depends to who hits first, Asuma would bisect Tsunade and carve his head with Fuuton enhanced Hien, Tsunade would oneshot kill Asuma with one of her punches


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

How are you going to punch someone with 2 big wind chakra blades without getting your arm cut off?


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## Mercurial (Aug 7, 2013)

Yes, indeed, so I think Asuma should win more times than not because of this


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## Olympian (Aug 7, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Yes he did. _(1)_.



He`s actually saying that the two of them are stronger than "even him". 



FlamingRain said:


> We saw Hidan fight Kakashi with the aid of Kakuzu's masks, and he didn't get anywhere, he only got left in the dust long enough for Kakashi to jump across the field and save Shikamaru and Chōji from _Raiton: Gian_..



We also saw Kakashi fighting Hidan without Kazuku interfering, after Hidan suffered a direct ambush where his Scytche was nerfed, with full knowledge and Sharingan and he also didn`t hit him once. 



FlamingRain said:


> Gai would have stolen the scythe like he stole Samehada after Hidan's first miss _(2)_, then proceeded to break all of Hidan's bones.



Except: Samehada is a sword, the Scytche isn`t. Hidan is an acrobat, Kisame isn`t. If the rope is there, Gai trying to steal it is only making himself a target for a small cut. 

The "breaking Hidan`s bones" was an argument that never had many legs to stand on. When he used Morning Peacock (one of his main moves) against that mortal clone, nothing indicates he had broken any bones. 

Hidan with his unusually durability, able to tank Futton and Katon doesn`t give many chances of that happening to him either.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

Olympian said:


> He`s actually saying that the two of them are stronger than "even him".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is actually a really good point of plot no jutsu.
Asuma should have been able to cut that Scythe into small bits.  He even did it to the other weapons thrown at him, yet his attacks and deflects did nothing to it.   Then later somehow we see it get smashed by a single paper bomb thrown by shikamaru.


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## SuperSaqer (Aug 7, 2013)

FairyTailisBack said:


> Lol, what are you smoking?  Get Tsunade's tits out of your mouth!
> Tsunade wouldn't stand a chance in hell against any other kage that ever lived.


She'd easily beat the Kazekage, and she'd also beat the Mizukage. And I'm talking about current Kage. Dunno about Tsuchikage, but she'd lose to the Raikage.


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## Hero (Aug 7, 2013)

Lol Tsunade losing to Asuma? Not ever 

Horrible stomp. This thread doesn't even warrant a serious post because unlike Kakashi and Gai, Asuma is nowhere near their level.


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## Olympian (Aug 7, 2013)

FairyTailisBack said:


> That is actually a really good point of plot no jutsu.
> Asuma should have been able to cut that Scythe into small bits.  He even did it to the other weapons thrown at him, yet his attacks and deflects did nothing to it.   Then later somehow we see it get smashed by a single paper bomb thrown by shikamaru.



That was plot, Kishi never showed Asuma using Futton on the Scytche or rope.


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## Veracity (Aug 7, 2013)

Hero said:


> Lol Tsunade losing to Asuma? Not ever
> 
> Horrible stomp. This thread doesn't even warrant a serious post because unlike Kakashi and Gai, Asuma is nowhere near their level.



Lol exactly. He's a Jounin. Nothing more, not has he EVER been implied to be stronger.

In what world can someone who is confirmed Jounin level beat a Mid-Tier Kage?


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## Axiom (Aug 7, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> They kind of _had_, though, and because of it Asuma had just found out Hidan was invulnerable and very skilled with his weapon. Shikamaru had just figured that even his _Kagenui_ "couldn't keep up with that kind of power". Asuma had enough to go on to make the statement that he did.
> 
> And I did no such dismissing, I'm not sure where you're drawing that from. Kakashi does not need prior knowledge of the ritual to avoid being hit by the scythe, neither does Gai. Hidan's ability is part of what makes Hidan, well, Hidan anyway. This is like saying Lee would have beaten Gaara without sand clones, except that doesn't mean Lee beats Gaara because Gaara _has_ sand clones. Kishimoto did not have Asuma say "_*way*_ stronger" for us to think "negligible gap", come on now.



Shikamaru's conclusion that Kagenui was useless was based off of the fact that Hidan was immortal.  Pretty sure he ended up using it against Hidan anyway.  And he also managed to pull Hidan out of the circle so clearly Hidan couldn't just laugh off his shadow techniques.

Anyway, the entire basis for Asuma's statement of Hidan's superiority was immortality.  All he had seen of Hidan was one weapon deflection and the fact that he was immortal.  If you take away Hidan's curse, I repeat, the gap is negligible.  They're close in Taijutsu and Weapons skill, as indicated by the DB and what little time they spent actually fighting.  Hidan tricked him and drew some blood that Asuma didn't give two shits about.  Without that, it otherwise would have been fairly even.

Asuma's definitely Elite Jonin level, which isn't enough to win this fight, but it certainly doesn't mean he can't face off with Hidan either with knowledge or without the curse in play.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 7, 2013)

Olympian said:


> That was plot, Kishi never showed Asuma using Futton on the Scytche or rope.



He is always using it when he fights.  It is what his whole style is based on!
When you see him block the attack that scratched him you can clearly see his blade has wind chakra in it.

Just the fact he didn't better attempt to shatter his scythe is plot no jutsu.
Never mind the fact it didn't break when he attacked it.


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## Bansai (Aug 8, 2013)

Bonly said:


> You asked why she was Hokage and I gave you the answer. Had Hiruzen lived, she wouldn't be Hokage. Had Jiraiya chose to take the seat, she wouldn't have been Hokage. Had Naruto not changed her mind eventually then she wouldn't have been Hokage. Simple as that, those reasons along with her being strong and famous is why she was picked to be the Hokage. I couldn't care less how you try to rationalize it above as what I said is the truth.




My post was about the comparison between other Jounins of Konoha and Tsunade. If Tsunade is truly the weakest one among all these Konoha Jounins as many people claim, why the hell would the elders agree to Jiraiya's idea to ask Tsunade? If the others are stronger and can be asked immediately, it would have been cleverer to ask them. It would take less time and they'd have a better Kage. That's what I mean with "why would Tsunade be Hokage". 



Bonly said:


> Wouldn't know, it was off panel. Doesn't really change the fact that she was given the title just because she managed to live to a certain point  just like Jiraiya+Orochi were only given the title because they managed to live to a certain point, but ok.



If she was supposedly as weak as so many people claim, why would she have survived up to this point? That's what I'm questioning. 





Bonly said:


> So did you just not read the manga or do you have a different definition of what attacking someone is? Mei and the Onoki+A backpack combo attacked Madara right after Tsunade used her regen. Based on what was shown Tsunade had hit Madara(or his Susanoo) a few times before the clones came out as well as pump chakra into Onoki. If you read the entire fight that we have seen, you will see that A+Mei hit Madara(or his SUsanoo) with offensive attacks just as many times with their attacks. You can think Tsunade had the spotlight but to say the other three did shit when it comes to combat is almost outright false. Gaara is so far the only one that comes to mind that didn't do much offensively beside sealing up a clone.


A and Mei Terumi first fought to buy some time, I'll give them that, but Madara didn't even start being serious there. He didn't even bother using his Rinnegan in order to get rid of Mei Terumi's Jutsu. What A did at first was more impressive, but later on, these three did nothing like that again. Simply because they had no opportunity to do so. Madara was not completely serious until he ended it with his perfect Susano'o, where he probably defeated every Kage in the blink of an eye, but at the beginning he wasn't even really trying to block his opponent's jutsus. As soon as Tsunade got into the battle, Mei, A and Gaara almost did nothing but protecting each other. Mei tried blocking all Katon jutsus and even failed (Dan had to save Tsunade from that Katon Jutsu after all). Especially after he brought these clones they were close to useless. The last attack they performed was also not really an attack. They tried to seal him with with sand mixed with water.


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 8, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> My post was about the comparison between other Jounins of Konoha and Tsunade. If Tsunade is truly the weakest one among all these Konoha Jounins as many people claim, why the hell would the elders agree to Jiraiya's idea to ask Tsunade? If the others are stronger and can be asked immediately, it would have been cleverer to ask them. It would take less time and they'd have a better Kage. That's what I mean with "why would Tsunade be Hokage".


Kakashi name has been mentioned, but the elders always bring up his age.

You realize that Danzo was just some jounin too right?  Just because you don't get promoted to Kage, doesn't mean you aren't kage level.  There can only be one kage after all.  Even if you are technically the strongest shinobi, it doesn't mean you want the position.   Jiraiya, yet another jounin, didn't want the position.  Kakashi doesn't want the position.

The skills of the jounin have obviously improved over the last 3 years as well.




Emporio Ivankov said:


> If she was supposedly as weak as so many people claim, why would she have survived up to this point? That's what I'm questioning.


She has insanely powerful healing and regenerative abilities.


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## Bonly (Aug 8, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> My post was about the comparison between other Jounins of Konoha and Tsunade. If Tsunade is truly the weakest one among all these Konoha Jounins as many people claim, why the hell would the elders agree to Jiraiya's idea to ask Tsunade? If the others are stronger and can be asked immediately, it would have been cleverer to ask them. It would take less time and they'd have a better Kage. That's what I mean with "why would Tsunade be Hokage".



Who are these "many people" that you are talking about? Everyone in the thread agrees that Tsunade win, only Olympian defending Asuma as always and even then I don't think he actually said Asuma would win. As for your point at that time she was given the title she was the strongest out of the group, but as of now she isn't anymore. She's still stronger then most on the list of Jounins that you named.





> If she was supposedly as weak as so many people claim, why would she have survived up to this point? That's what I'm questioning.



Seeing as we didn't see how that fight went down, we can't say why. 






> A and Mei Terumi first fought to buy some time, I'll give them that, but Madara didn't even start being serious there. He didn't even bother using his Rinnegan in order to get rid of Mei Terumi's Jutsu. What A did at first was more impressive, but later on, these three did nothing like that again. Simply because they had no opportunity to do so. Madara was not completely serious until he ended it with his perfect Susano'o, where he probably defeated every Kage in the blink of an eye, but at the beginning he wasn't even really trying to block his opponent's jutsus. As soon as Tsunade got into the battle, Mei, A and Gaara almost did nothing but protecting each other. Mei tried blocking all Katon jutsus and even failed (Dan had to save Tsunade from that Katon Jutsu after all). Especially after he brought these clones they were close to useless. The last attack they performed was also not really an attack. They tried to seal him with with sand mixed with water.



When it comes, as you said "The other three didn't do shit when it came to combat" it's glad to see you disagree with that statement as you provided what they(bar Gaara) did combat wise when it wasn't, as you said " Blocking a few attacks and protecting the others isn't what makes you a combatant" above. Also glad you disagree with your statement of "She(Tsunade) was the only one who actually FOUGHT Madara instead of just protecting each other like the other Kages did?" as you provided other wise above. So basically this all seems like you just over exaggerated the Kage vs Madara Situation when it came to Tsunade and the other Kages as offensive/combat wise, Tsunade didn't do much more as the other Kages(Bar Gaara) as the amount of hits she made are just about equal with the others(unless you count her adding chakra to Onoki which might give her an extra hit above the rest).


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## ThePoetessandThePunk (Aug 8, 2013)

So I haven't even bothered reading this thread but just the concept of it being a 'fair' matchup is insulting to Tsunade who wouldn't have to exert much effort to be rid of Asuma...


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## FairyTailisBack (Aug 8, 2013)

ThePoetessandThePunk said:


> So I haven't even bothered reading this thread but just the concept of it being a 'fair' matchup is insulting to Tsunade who wouldn't have to exert much effort to be rid of Asuma...



Tsunade wins, but to think it would be a easy seems more like an insult to Asuma, and the sarutobi clan.


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