# Would You Violate Your Morals to Survive?



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 13, 2018)

Most people have a sense of morality that governs how they behave and interact with other people, and those people typically adhere to that sense of morality in any situation that they may encounter.

However, some people may violate their own moral codes if they feel that doing so is necessary for survival, and I am having a disagreement with @Toxic Saiyan on this subject; he believes that I would violate my moral codes to survive, but I maintain that I would not.

My morals are not terribly strict, but they are very important, and I will never violate them for anything; I would rather die than violate my morals, and I believe that anyone who would violate their morals (presuming that they have morals) to survive should be punished severely for doing so.

What does everyone else say about this subject? Would you violate your morals to survive? Why or why not?


----------



## SupremeKage (Jun 13, 2018)

Could you give an example? Creating a situation might give others a good idea on what they may do.


----------



## shieldbounce (Jun 13, 2018)

@DemonDragonJ Come on man, you are asking me some of the trickiest questions here.

In all honesty, I think that the answer to this question needs to come from the perspective of a person who has actually faced this sort of situation.


----------



## A Optimistic (Jun 14, 2018)

"In truth, the man was an oathbreaker, a deserter from the Night's Watch. No man is more dangerous. The deserter knows his life is forfeit if he is taken, so he will not flinch from any crime, no matter how vile."


----------



## Santí (Jun 14, 2018)

I already have.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## Aeternus (Jun 14, 2018)

It's easy to say stuff like that but you can never be sure unless you've been in a situation that could make you do it.

Reactions: Winner 3


----------



## Roman (Jun 14, 2018)

You've admitted that if you discovered your mom adopted you and your (hypothetical) "real" mom met you, youd choose to save your foster mother given the situation. Considering part of your moral code places blood relations above any other kind, you've effectively admitted you'd break that code in that scenario.

@Toxic Saiyan already won

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## Roman (Jun 14, 2018)

With regards to myself, I don't know tbh. Like others said, you'd have to be put in that kind of situation to know for certain. In all honesty, my morals are quite simple and because of that, I feel like they're rather hard to break. My biggest problem would probably come from having to understand that as much as I can try to be kind to others and help anyone I can who is in need, it is a struggle to help virtually everyone as it is impossible for one person to do so. In which case, it would boil down to what I'd have to choose.


----------



## Nep Nep (Jun 14, 2018)

Most likely. 

Apart from anything that involves killing, why not?


----------



## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Jun 14, 2018)

If I was amongst enemies.... sure. Eat or be eaten(especially during hard times), that's one of my proverbs

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dayscanor (Jun 14, 2018)

DDJ, why do you care so much about what other people think? I think that's where lies the problem, if you're so sure of yourself that you wouldn't violate your morals, then who cares if some other dude doesn't believe you? 

Though I agree with others who pointed out that you can't really be sure of a person's character till they're faced with some very hard circumstances, like a life or death situation. And even then it could just be your survival instinct that kicks in.

And sometimes you can't do much against that, it's just that natural part of us that we can't fully control.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 14, 2018)

SupremeKage said:


> Could you give an example? Creating a situation might give others a good idea on what they may do.



An example would be if a person was starving (actually starving, not simply very hungry), and another person had food, but was not willing to share it. For me, stealing the food from such a person would not be a violation of my moral code, because I need that food to survive, but a violation would be killing that person to steal that food, especially if killing that person was not necessary for stealing their food.

Another example would be betraying one's friends or family to save one's own life; I could never do something as despicable as that.


----------



## John Wick (Jun 15, 2018)

No death before dishonour.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Yagami1211 (Jun 15, 2018)

Every person's morals are shaped by life experience. Your morals are different than when you were a kid and will probably be different when you will be older.

Saying you will never betray your ideals is a childish idea. It's good to be optimistic but you have no idea what life will throw at you and how you will react in given time. The morals of one person can change with time, it's not set in stone.

It's like saying you can beat anyone without knowing how strong are your opponents.

Anyway, morality is a subjective concept in the first place. It doesn't exist and it is artificial. If only there was some omniscient power above us who could tell us what is moral and what is not .

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Subarashii (Jun 15, 2018)




----------



## John Wick (Jun 15, 2018)

Yagami1211 said:


> Every person's morals are shaped by life experience. Your morals are different than when you were a kid and will probably be different when you will be older.
> 
> Saying you will never betray your ideals is a childish idea. It's good to be optimistic but you have no idea what life will throw at you and how you will react in given time. The morals of one person can change with time, it's not set in stone.
> 
> ...


Why?

Is playing a game with god mode enabled enjoyable? Adhering to your own personal values provides satisfaction when you complete a task. 

Morality is subjective but at the same time you can't rely on some sky daddy to tell us what is moral since they've shown capable of being wrong and some actions considered moral in historical and religious texts is immoral and a crime by modern standards, for example enslavement and the idea that women are inherently inferior to men is something that's consistent among religious texts


----------



## Yagami1211 (Jun 15, 2018)

John Wick said:


> Why?
> 
> Is playing a game with god mode enabled enjoyable? Adhering to your own personal values provides satisfaction when you complete a task.
> 
> Morality is subjective but at the same time you can't rely on some sky daddy to tell us what is moral since they've shown capable of being wrong and some actions considered moral in historical and religious texts is immoral and a crime by modern standards, for example enslavement and the idea that women are inherently inferior to men is something that's consistent among religious texts



That last sentence was sarcasm and I don't really except something like that anyway.


----------



## Island (Jun 15, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Most people have a sense of morality that governs how they behave and interact with other people, and those people typically adhere to that sense of morality in any situation that they may encounter.
> 
> However, some people may violate their own moral codes if they feel that doing so is necessary for survival, and I am having a disagreement with @Toxic Saiyan on this subject; he believes that I would violate my moral codes to survive, but I maintain that I would not.
> 
> ...


Go read _Man's Search For Meaning _by Victor Frankl.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 15, 2018)

Island said:


> Go read _Man's Search For Meaning _by Victor Frankl.



Perhaps I shall, when I have time to do so, and I currently do not have time to do so.


----------



## Toxic Saiyan (Jun 15, 2018)

Plus this isn’t even going into any other circumstances regarding yourself and if on that specific day you are in a mood or mindset to even think about defending your morals.

Look at any psychological horror and you’ll see once strong, confident people be realistically broken down by constant bad luck or circumstance to eventually not care about their morals like _Oldboy_ and other mediums. You aren’t always at your 100% or having a clear head on that day to really uphold it.

And especially if you need to _survive_


----------



## Sumu (Jun 15, 2018)

What morals


----------



## Mider T (Jun 15, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Perhaps I shall, when I have time to do so, and I currently do not have time to do so.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Smoke (Jun 15, 2018)

I'll violate anything to survive.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Lewd 1


----------



## shieldbounce (Jun 17, 2018)

Smoke said:


> I'll violate anything to survive.


Hmm. Mind expanding on your reasoning for this plz?


----------



## Smoke (Jun 17, 2018)

Lina Shields said:


> Hmm. Mind expanding on your reasoning for this plz?


I wrote it that way because the only limits to what I'll violate, are the limits that your mind puts on it.


If you can think it, I'll violate it...for survival.

Reactions: Creative 1


----------



## Plexa (Jun 17, 2018)

Not only are your morals ever-changing, but see when you do something wrong, you're not actually 'abandoning' your morals, so to speak. For example, you might agree that it's inherently wrong to use someone for your own ulterior motives; and you might then go on to do that very thing. But you're not abandoning your morals, because you still believe that what you did or are doing is wrong. It's just that you're going ahead with it anyway. That's essentially what happens when you 'violate' your morals to survive. In a kill or be killed situation, you most likely will kill to stay alive, and you will probably feel awful about it, too. You've not abandoned your morals, because you still agree that killing someone is wrong. Just the fact that you went against your own morals doesn't automatically delete all of your psychological progress and make you a blank slate.

Realistically, in order not to 'violate' your morals, particularly if your morals are quite complex or varied, you need to be thinking about them all the time, you need to have studied every particular scenario in which your morals will be challenged or come into question, and foreseen every possible outcome that obeying or straying from your morals has had. It's not feasibly possible, and it's why humans are so prone to making mistakes. We all do things to hurt people, we all do things that we're ashamed of and wish we hadn't done, and we all do them both consciously and sub-consciously. The key to progress isn't sitting down and formulating a solid 'moral code', as if it it couldn't possibly be fluid, but to focus on your reflexive thought processes, learn from your mistakes, and challenge the inner prejudices and urges which everyone has.

If it were so easy to simply assign yourself a moral code and follow it perfectly with conviction, without ever straying from it due to anger, stress, lust, or anything else, then it wouldn't have been so easy for the Church to become so powerful.


----------



## Shrike (Jun 17, 2018)

It probably depends on how dire the situation is, but so far I haven't backed down from my morals. And i've been in a situation where I was threatened with an uzi so


----------



## Toxic Saiyan (Jun 17, 2018)

Smoke said:


> I wrote it that way because the only limits to what I'll violate, are the limits that your mind puts on it.
> 
> 
> If you can think it, I'll violate it...for survival.


Actually that’s a good thought, but really is technically violating your morals means that you’re technically violating...



Yourself?


----------



## Smoke (Jun 18, 2018)

ANYTHING!!!


----------



## Toby (Jul 4, 2018)

Depends on which moral, but probably yes

I'd eat someone if I had to. I wouldn't enjoy killing, but stealing etc. isn't exactly terrifying.


----------



## HisokaRollin (Jul 7, 2018)

Depends on what do you mean?

Killing enemy is easy, most people would do it if its just defence, but what about being in a situation where you are starving with your family and you see on a walk that another family have gathered some food. Would you steal from them knowing that it would let you survive but would kill them in th proces because they probably wont be able to get any more food? 

Btw this one thing is interesting for me- if you would be stuck somewhere starving with other person then would you start eating each other's body parts to survive? Like- you eat his leg, he eats yours.

Would you go cannibal when starving? 

I turned this thread kinda weird, sorry.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Lord Tentei (Jul 12, 2018)

This is what it boils down to, we can all debate till we are blue in the face.

You won't know what you would do until you are placed into the situation of whatever it may be that would challenge your moral compass. You can say I *KNOW* I'd never do that. But, once your in the moment you may even shock yourself with what you'd actually do with your survival on the line.


----------



## Fëanáro (Jul 22, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> and I believe that anyone who would violate their morals (presuming that they have morals) to survive should be punished severely for doing so.


...Why? Just because it's part of someone's moral code doesn't mean it's against the law, or severely harms anybody... Quite frankly, that sounds deeply childish to me.

Say I believe it's immoral to drink alcohol. And then someone gave me antifreeze and the way to survive that is to drink alcohol, which could save me from a horrible, horrible death. What is my punishment? Jail? Whipping? Beheading? That's totally ridiculous.

'You did something you thought was wrong until you had to do it to survive, now you need to be punished.' How utterly foolish that sounds.

Confronting situations that challenge our morals is how we gain _perspective_. We learn and grow, and our moral codes evolve over time. Ignoring that is how you get a bunch of pampered twits wailing "oh, I could never do something like that and nobody else should either, it's baaaaad" when they don't understand the reality and necessities of a situation. That'd be like, oh, I don't know, some well-off California vegan protesting the fact that Inuit people eat a lot of meat and demanding they be banned from consuming seal or whale, while ignoring the absence of other alternatives and prohibitively high prices of most other foods up there. However, being placed in a situation where you actually have to do the thing or die, you come to understand better how it ought to be weighed on a moral scale.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Island (Jul 22, 2018)

Oh, this topic is back.

I can't emphasize enough how much you guys should read Victor Frankl's _Man's Search for Meaning_. It's literally a book on this subject by somebody who was a prisoner at Auschwitz.

It's also only 200 pages. If you're genuinely interested in this topic, go read this book.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aduro (Jul 22, 2018)

The answer depends if I'm making a decision consciously, or acting on impluse. 

If I was literally in a life threatening situation where I acted on impluse, I have no idea how I'd react. For example I think its wrong to execute criminals. And I think an untrained civillian like me carrying weapons for self-defence is generally riskier for everyone involved than me being unarmed. I'd rather have someone break into my house or steal my wallet than watch someone die for the value of whatever property they could get from me.  
But if I had a gun in my hand and someone tried to mug me with a knife, and I felt really scared, I might react differently on impulse. I might try to shoot to disarm or injure or really try to kill them. I might run away and get stabbed. I might just drop the gun and try to give them my wallet. Its normal for people 

That said, if we're talking about a pre-meditated choices. Then there are things I'd rather die to avoid doing than live with. I'd rather not live if it meant murdering an innocent person selfishly. I couldn't live with myself if I'd done something like raping a person or killing someone in cold blood. So I might as well just die if those are my choices. Obviously there are plenty of morals I would cheat on before dying though. But those morals would have to be something deeply important to me personally. If I'm going to choose between dying and morality, It'll prove which morals I really care about deeply and which ones are just to be socially acceptable.

For example cannibalism vs. starvation. Obviously It seems immoral to want to eat a person. Its gross and it would probably upset their loved ones. ot only that, but peer pressure works against me, cannibalism is not cool. If I have to kill a person _just _so that I can eat them, then I can't look past that. But I'd still rather eat a  conveniently already freshly dead person than die.
I mean I've got an organ donor card, after I die somebody can use my lungs and stuff if they really need it. Whether that means saving a life through for a transplant or a nourishing snack, I give my blessing. Because I value any life, including my own, as more important than any corpse. I'm not going to pretend that I would rather die than eat someone who had already died from something that wasn't my intention.


----------



## Plexa (Jul 23, 2018)

Takaya said:


> ...Why? Just because it's part of someone's moral code doesn't mean it's against the law, or severely harms anybody... Quite frankly, that sounds deeply childish to me.
> 
> Say I believe it's immoral to drink alcohol. And then someone gave me antifreeze and the way to survive that is to drink alcohol, which could save me from a horrible, horrible death. What is my punishment? Jail? Whipping? Beheading? That's totally ridiculous.
> 
> ...



I really love this.

Of course I don't know what your political affiliation is, but I'm getting the vibe that "never going against one's morals no matter what" is inherently conservative/reactionary on some basis, and I'm seriously living for it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Fëanáro (Jul 23, 2018)

Plexa said:


> I really love this.
> 
> Of course I don't know what your political affiliation is, but I'm getting the vibe that "never going against one's morals no matter what" is inherently conservative/reactionary on some basis, and I'm seriously living for it.


Pretty much! I really feel like refusing to examine why one holds a particular set of morals leads to stagnation and careless unthinking cruelty to people one has been taught to see negatively. Our morals aren't formed in a vacuum, after all, and the initial set we develop when young can easily be contaminated by the biases of our elders.


----------



## aiyanah (Jul 23, 2018)

if you're talking life or death, then yes, every time, without fail.
we could call it clockwork it would occur with such regularity.
just setting me back though? not so much, i would rather be the good guy there cause the world will right all the mess in the end


----------



## Toby (Jul 26, 2018)

I've found one moral I might not break

I'm not sure I'd wear orange shorts even if I was stranded on an island in a perpetual summer and without any sun lotion

I'd probably find a way to invent my own sun lotion rather than wear orange


----------

