# Naruto and Bleach compared to One Piece on this forum



## Mike Hunt (May 29, 2008)

Ok so this is just a comparison of the fans opinion on this forum:

One Piece:

Here you see what other people think about the creator of One Piece:


Now Bleach:




And last but not least: Naruto


Naruto and Bleach = Plotkai and PnJ. With a hint of PIS.

One Piece = everything planned out = godly manga.


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## fakund1to (May 29, 2008)

one piece is manga where every character has a good fight, and always wins, i like it, but it's plain. On the other hand Naruto and Bleach Don't focuse on the other characters other than the main characters. 

Does this even belong to the KL?


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## Canute87 (May 29, 2008)

.

 kitter litter's pic.

But yeah, no one can complain about one piece. AT most you just here people saying that they haven't got into it.


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## Kitsukaru (May 29, 2008)

*FUCKING WINNER!!!!!*
Stop this thread now!

~狐翼 *Winged Kitsune*


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## Mike Hunt (May 29, 2008)

Naruto = its like a special olympics rivalry over the internet.
Bleach = its decent but eh. it has its moment but battles are uber suck.



fakund1to said:


> one piece is manga where every character has a good fight, and always wins, i like it, but it's plain. On the other hand Naruto and Bleach Don't focuse on the other characters other than the main characters.
> 
> Does this even belong to the KL?



lol. One Piece is more like an adventure filled with epic fruity goodness so of course enemies will come here and there and htere will be fights.


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## Turrin (May 29, 2008)

The first Half of One Piece was not very good in my opinion though it still had an okay storyline and a couple of amazing battles. What i consider the first part is from chapter 1to the end of the battle with Crocodile...also individual chapters are some-what lacking in this part. I would say part 1 of naruto is better then part 1 One Piece by quite a deal and seemingly had a whole lot more potential then One Piece. However as both Manga's shifted between the first and second half...Kishimoto systimatically killed alot of the potential of his manga and hurt it with insane story plots and lack of character development (other then Sasuke's recent development). Oda on the other hand was able to increase the potential of the manga by a huge amount and was able to make the manga a little less kiddy and by far more amazing. 

The settings of OP also far exceeded Kishi's rather linear forest, city, hideout settings. I mean going from sky island, to an old west town, to the insane ships of the different pirates, all the way to water Seven and finally on to recent islands. Each setting has realistic effects on the battles and makes the manga seem by far better planned out. Oda has also been able to expand the rather linear pirate vs pirate vs marine...to a more complex plot invovling the different pirates working for and against the world goverment. Also each character in OP was given alot of character development and Oda is capable of juggling 8 crew members at once among a host of many many villains. Really Oda has done an excellent job at maturing the manga and making it better overtime

So Part 1 Naruto >>> Part 1 One Piece

Part 2 One Piece >>>>>>>>>>>>> Part 2 Naruto

Bleach usually falls somewhere in the middle or dead last depending on the battles which is basically all the manga is good for, but even recent flashback chapters have been pulling bleach past naruto in some ways


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## Shoddragon (May 29, 2008)

up to crocodile is not even half way through the current story *facepalms*. and one piece has a lot more time to be amazing than naruto does. 100 volumes or 1,000 chapters, whichever comes first, is Oda's goal. I think kishimoto's goal is just to waste away time by repeating the same thing over and over again in each chapter.


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## Mike Hunt (May 29, 2008)

Oda planned everything in One Piece. He also planned for it to last five years I heard. 

First QUARTER of OP was slow and boring imo. But the first half of Naruto was gay. I mean like it had toilet humor and shit and the whole Gaara had so much potential but Kishimoto never reached it to its fullest, only some of it. IMO, Naruto had way better fights than Shippuden as well. I mean like Naruto is basically ninjas who learn shit and get powerups that are wayyyy too unbelievable even for a manga. And its played out over and over. OP is ALMOST half-way done you realize? Luffy hasn't even gotten all his crew yet and his new adventures in the New World awaits.


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## Arcanis (May 29, 2008)

Wait till you visit the Outskirts Battledome. 

The OP wanking is strong...


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## Megaharrison (May 29, 2008)

Sasuke is very popular in Japan so therefore he must be a great character.


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## shit (May 29, 2008)

Oda is God.

Naruto's cool, but it's like it's not the same sport as One Piece.  Naruto's baseball; One Piece is football.

Bleach is basketball, cause it's harder for me to get into it.

Hmmm.... Naruto's _Lost_ and One Piece is _Monty Python's Flying Circus._  Bleach is whatever's on USA at the moment.

Naruto is ninjas and One Piece is pirates, for godsakes!!  You can't even begin to compare them.


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## Arcanis (May 29, 2008)

Megaharrison said:


> Sasuke is very popular in Japan so therefore he must be a great character.


I hope that's sarcasm.

I like Sasuke but that logic is so wrong...


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## Micku (May 29, 2008)

I never got into OP. It's not my cup of tea, although lots of ppl on this forum say it's epic. *shrugs*

What's great about it?


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## Supa Swag (May 29, 2008)

One Piece has PEDO BEAR

nuff said.


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## Kenny Florian (May 29, 2008)

It's actually quite simple. One Piece is enjoyable so people have less complaints about it. Bleach and Naruto are pretty bland so people have many reasons to complain about those series.


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## C-Moon (May 29, 2008)

Megaharrison said:


> Sasuke is very popular in Japan so therefore he must be a great character.



This is a big part of all of Jizz's arguments, so you must excuse me as I .


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## InfIchi (May 29, 2008)

do we really need a 300th "OP > Bleach/Naruto" thread?


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## Gritz (May 30, 2008)

InfIchi said:


> do we really need a 300th "OP > Bleach/Naruto" thread?



To the OPtards, apperantly we do.  

Personally, they are driving me away from One Piece.  Not toward it.


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## InfIchi (May 30, 2008)

Gritz said:


> To the OPtards, apperantly we do.
> 
> Personally, they are driving me away from One Piece.  Not toward it.



i like about 90% of what shonen turns out lol


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## Nuzzie (May 30, 2008)

Micku said:


> I never got into OP. It's not my cup of tea, although lots of ppl on this forum say it's epic. *shrugs*
> 
> What's great about it?



Just one thing but the enviroments are great. All these chapters in and Oda is still making kickass places.

read online


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## LouDAgreat (May 30, 2008)

Naruto is the only manga i read and anime that i watch so i wouldn't know about one-piece or Bleach. Howver, isn't Naruto more popular than Bleach or one-piece?


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## Disquiet (May 30, 2008)

I used to agree, kinda, but at the moment Naruto and Bleach are in the middle of pretty awesome arcs and One Piece hasn't been the same since Water 7 (despite Brook).  So, well, y'know.

^ No, OP is vastly more popular IIRC. D:


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## Nuzzie (May 30, 2008)

BrianTheGoldfish said:


> I used to agree, kinda, but at the moment Naruto and Bleach are in the middle of pretty awesome arcs and One Piece hasn't been the same since Water 7 (despite Brook).  So, well, y'know.
> 
> ^ No, OP is vastly more popular IIRC. D:



Your definition of awesome appears to be ass backwards.


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## hcheng02 (May 30, 2008)

I know that OP is more popular in Japan than Naruto. In the USA its reversed, with Naruto being way more popular than OP. Does anyone know how the two compare in other countries in Europe, China, and such?


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## Reo (May 30, 2008)

I am a fan of all but to put them in order, One Piece goes more in depth with the characters, and the storyline is amazing. Naruto has weaker character development, the fighting in naruto is ok. i prefer one piece because its development in fighting is more consistent unlike naruto. naruto fighting is better and more dragonball zish, but OP is more consistent which in my opinion makes it a better manga. Far easier to get into naruto than OP, but the more i read OP, the more it surpassed Naruto in my opinion. OP seems to be infinite in its storyline and could go on for potentially anothe 7 years, were as i see an end to naruto soon. Bleach is 3rd best when it comes to both fighting and Storytellong but i like it anyways. Anyone that likes any of the above manga should ty HunterxHunter. its like Naruto used some of its ideas. the Battles are the best there in my opinion.


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## Supa Swag (May 30, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> One Piece has PEDO BEAR
> 
> nuff said.


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## Hollowized (May 30, 2008)

Pirates win.

Also OP is the only one of the 3 mangas with awesome main characters.

Sasuke is fucking lame.
Naruto is... well he ain't really that super awesome.
Ichigo is rather mediocre, maybe a tiny bit above (however his hollow is fucking cool).

Then we have the strawhat crew. And every one of their characters if goddamn brilliant and unique.


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## hiko (May 30, 2008)

They're all good clean fun, but Berserk > all.


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## Meat (May 30, 2008)

hahahahahaha! OP lolz. i dont care about the tards, trolls, character bashing, idiot people(even tho there are lots of them) in NF as long they like naruto. what pisses me is people saying one piece is better than naruto.


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## Amaterasu (May 30, 2008)

I find One Piece to predictable, that and the fact that the characters don't die means the fights aren't as exciting as they could be.


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## healer81 (May 30, 2008)

naruto is doing the worst of them all so far
bleach is doing pretty good, at least there are some fights and many cool characters, however the fight with the bounto was pretty weak

one piece has been doing great since they got sanji but the current arc has been mediocre


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## bug_ninja (May 30, 2008)

Even though One piece is on a lower scale than Naruto and Bleach it's succes is bigger cause the author isn't playing favourite and has everything planned out while Naruto and Bleach keep screwing up especially Naruto with the whole Uchiha plot now.


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## spyware (May 30, 2008)

One piece is actually the most popular out of three but in Japan. This is probably because the rest of the world gets shitty censored version of the anime


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## Zetta (May 30, 2008)

Currently even Fairy Tails is better than Naruto.

Seriously,Naruto and Bleach are done for. The new trinity is One Piece,Fairy Tail and Katekyo Hitman Reborn.


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## Lelouch71 (May 30, 2008)

I have no beef with One Piece it just that I can't get into it. Bleach was cool up til Soul Society but it went downhill. I enjoy Naruto and liking current events despite some people disappointment.

However, Rurouni Kenshin, 666 Satan, and Yu Yu Hakusho are superior shonens IMO. Though none of the shonens big three can compare to Code Geass for me.


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## LouDAgreat (May 30, 2008)

jibers said:


> I am a fan of all but to put them in order, One Piece goes more in depth with the characters, and the storyline is amazing. Naruto has weaker character development, the fighting in naruto is ok. i prefer one piece because its development in fighting is more consistent unlike naruto. naruto fighting is better and more dragonball zish, but OP is more consistent which in my opinion makes it a better manga. Far easier to get into naruto than OP, but the more i read OP, the more it surpassed Naruto in my opinion. OP seems to be infinite in its storyline and could go on for potentially anothe 7 years, were as i see an end to naruto soon. Bleach is 3rd best when it comes to both fighting and Storytellong but i like it anyways. Anyone that likes any of the above manga should ty HunterxHunter. its like Naruto used some of its ideas. the Battles are the best there in my opinion.



I guess its time for me to read one-peace and Bleach
By the way, One-Piece and bleach have filler episodes in their anime right?


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## Denizen (May 30, 2008)

Why do people keep grouping One Piece with Naruto and Bleach?
One Piece doesn't _deserve_ to be grouped with these two.

One Piece is up with Kekkashi and Hunter X Hunter, not the average-ness of Naruto and Bleach.


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## berserking_fury (May 30, 2008)

Ok obviously this thread was made for the soul purpose to bash other series and get others to do the same to validate their own opinion, but hey I'll throw my two cents in. From where i stand i cant really speak for Bleach because i haven't read it in a long time, but between Naruto and One Piece I've got to side with Naruto. And no thats not to say i hate OP its just i find myself waiting week to week for the next chap. of Naruto, while with OP i just take a break then catch up. 

The reason is I just can't take OP that serious especially since they go from joke to joke to joke with overexaggerated facial features and yeah they have dramatic flashbacks of characters pasts, but to me the fights are as grand as DBZ they just have no limiters aside from Luffy's gear modes. By limiters i mean a handicap on some techniques so they don't seem uber powered but in OP they go from power up, to power up, to power up to take on the next enemy. Only one person ever trains and the rest never even mention they trained but can come up (especially Luffy) with a new technique on the fly. Now top that off with trying to swallow the fact that *No one* is allowed to *die* (excluding flashbacks they don't count) in a world where they use fantastic techniques and weapons that crush, burn, blow up, electrocute, freeze, slice and dice. The worst they seem to get is very bloody, and being knocked out.  

Now before some OP fanboy/fangirl tries to bite my head off OP has many things i like about it which some others have already listed, and things i hate about Naruto which again some have already listed. It's just not that unbelievable amazing as some people may say.


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## Black Leg Sanji (May 30, 2008)

Denizen said:


> Why do people keep grouping One Piece with Naruto and Bleach?
> One Piece doesn't _deserve_ to be grouped with these two.
> 
> One Piece is up with Kekkashi and Hunter X Hunter, not the average-ness of Naruto and Bleach.



You are right, Naruto and Bleach doesnt belong anywhere near the awesome that is OP. However Naruto shouldnt be put together with Bleach either since imo Bleach is average and Naruto beyond crap.


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## Distracted (May 30, 2008)

Moving to Konoha Library Floor 2.


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## Uffie (May 30, 2008)

I really wonder why some of these people are on Naruto forums.


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## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

Reading One Piece >>>>>>>>> Reading Bleach >>>>>>>>>> Self-castration >>>>> Reading Naruto.


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## Lusankya (May 30, 2008)

Its pretty simple for me. I find myself impatiently(can't stress this enough) waiting for the next OP chapter while i don't mind not reading the other 2 for a few weeks.


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## MdB (May 30, 2008)

For me it's basically this. OP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bleach>>>>Naruto.

Not to mention I prefer HXH, Hajime, Kekkaishi, FMA etc over Naruto and Bleach.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (May 30, 2008)

OP is always a good read. It has yet to let me down

Bleach was good through SS, then spiraled down and became utter shit with HM, but it's made a bit of a recovery with this current flashback arc. It's at least readable now

Naruto is an irredeemable pile of horse shit


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## Akatora (May 30, 2008)

Well I have the same impression on One Piece as most of the anime/manga interested i know in person, only difference is I've redden 411 chapters...
I felt most of it was really a waste sadly :/

I would much rather have redden several shorter series.
It's not a bad series though and It has a line and it stick to it. What People usually complain about in bleach and Naruto is when they don't live up to there expectations.
OP is more easy going and so is more unlikely to fail to deliver the expectations.


Anime manga people I know that skip OP: ~15, people i know that  like OP 3

It is a hit or miss series, either you like it and pray for it, or you'll never get into it... It has it's good moments but i couldn't help but find a lot of the comedy in it to be uninteresting, Yes a human furnace... Am i supposed to laugh or shake my head over how weird this looks?
That is the 2 groups OP make.


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## Zephos (May 30, 2008)

Akatora said:


> Well I have the same impression on One Piece as most of the anime/manga interested i know in person, only difference is I've *redden* 411 chapters...
> I felt most of it was really a waste sadly :/
> 
> I would much rather have *redden *several shorter series.
> ...



1. lol "redden"
2. One Piece is not easy going, especially when being compared with the other two.
3. lollll, nobody cares about your convenience samples.
4. Akatora: the endless struggle with comprehedning the comedy of the bizarre.


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## Tash (May 30, 2008)

loveslick said:


> I really wonder why some of these people are on Naruto forums.



Yea guys, didn't you read the "Naruto is the best manga ever or gtfo" clause in the user agreement contract. Me niether.

OP is consistently good. Bleach at it's best is also good but with HM it pretty much died, and is currently recovering. Naruto has been bad for a while, the most current chapter had a slight spike in quality but still bad compared to the others.


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## Agmaster (May 30, 2008)

Didn't I already make this thread...which was a copy of another thread, and then I apologized for making that thread.  Don't continue the cycle!


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## RamzaBeoulve (May 30, 2008)

guys, to be fair, kishi can be very unpredictable at times

but that is because all his plot developments make no sense, it's so BS that no one would have thought of it to begin with, hence, he is very unpredictable


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## Scorpio3.14 (May 30, 2008)

I put all three on about the same level right now, which is pretty mediocre. Though at their peaks, I enjoyed Bleach and Naruto quite a bit more then I ever did One Piece so I generally put them above OP. I mean I still read all 3 series on a weekly basis, but there are much better series out there that I enjoy a lot more and thats just among other Shounen manga.


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## Prowler (May 30, 2008)

*WTF? One Piece is WIN! 
*


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## Akatora (May 30, 2008)

Zephos said:


> 1. lol "redden"
> 2. One Piece is not easy going, especially when being compared with the other two.
> 3. lollll, nobody cares about your convenience samples.
> 4. Akatora: the endless struggle with comprehedning the comedy of the bizarre.




1. ehh yeah and? redden my eyes from reading to far into em could be possible.

2. It is simple look you have a line in OP it is even called the grand line and You kinda know where the borders are. People want and Expect far different stories from Bleach and Naruto and of cause it's not possible to give everyone what they want. 
I Despise when some call a manga perfect even if i have done so myself, Bleach IS NOT PERFECT and i have never said it was. There's plenty of ways i could see it improving into more of my liking, but even if it is not showing what i want the most... It still show something cool which it is able to deliver to me as one of the better suppliers.(Call it trash talk at times, but Kubo is not just about Trash talk, he seem to have placed more in those line then some give him credit for. Look at how he makes volume poems for instance.)


3. Yeah and why do u comment on it mr *top cat*astrophe? 

4. Well to be honest Your among the people that has made me go from seeing OP as a standard 5-6/10 series to a 3/10 in how enjoyable it is.
As i said you're making a catastrophe upon readers that are not consumed into OP, as late as today I've seen others saying the same.

If you hype up something to much some will start to dislike it more and more.
Look at how many peoples opinions have changed upon Naruto for instance


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## MdB (May 30, 2008)

Akatora said:


> Well I have the same impression on One Piece as most of the anime/manga interested i know in person, only difference is I've redden 411 chapters...
> I felt most of it was really a waste sadly :/
> 
> I would much rather have redden several shorter series.
> ...



This post is once again hilarious for the wrong reasons. But I'm afraid (due to your stupidity) that you couldn't even understand what I just said.


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## Akatora (May 30, 2008)

MdB said:


> This post is once again hilarious for the wrong reasons. But I'm afraid (due to your stupidity) that you couldn't even understand what I just said.



Perhaps, mr One Piece is perfect

Remember when i asked you to mention something you'd improve about OP?
It took you forever to just mention one thing and that didn't seem to be all that strong of an opinion.


Yeah it is hilarious looking back at how I at times enjoyed OP- Thx for being one to help opening my eyes about this series true colors -_-


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## MdB (May 30, 2008)

Akatora said:


> Perhaps, mr One Piece is perfect



Using a half-assed strawman isn't a rebuttal, dumbass. There are plenty of fictional works that I rank higher than One Piece.



Akatora said:


> Remember when i asked you to mention something you'd improve about OP?
> It took you forever to just mention one thing and that didn't seem to be all that strong of an opinion.



Since when is time associated with formulating a opinion? I'd guess your stupitidy is kicking in to create another half-assed argument that is pretty irrelevent to the premise of your argument.

Want to hear some things that I dont like about One Piece?

1. No one fucking dies.
2. Kill that bitch Nami
3. Kill that ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) Sanji
4. Let someone else besides Luffy fight a main antogonist of a specific arc.
5. Stop shitting on Ussop
6. Make the fight less predictable

That's just off the top of my head FYI. So it looks like once again you were spouting crap.



Akatora said:


> Yeah it is hilarious looking back at how I at times enjoyed OP- Thx for being one to help opening my eyes about this series true colors -_-



Good, lets redden some. 'Cause redden is fun. I like redden. Do you like redden?


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## Tash (May 30, 2008)

I like redden!


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## Akatora (May 30, 2008)

MdB said:


> Using a half-assed strawman isn't a rebuttal, dumbass. There are plenty of fictional works that I rank higher than One Piece.





MdB said:


> Since when is time associated with formulating a opinion? I'd guess your stupitidy is kicking in to create another half-assed argument that is pretty irrelevent to the premise of your argument.
> 
> Want to hear some things that I dont like about One Piece?
> 
> ...



And look at this? all u have suggested was pretty much what an 8 year old would have said, try thinking out of your box.
It's none constructive in any way. And you don't think that there's series I'd say got better story telling then bleach?




MdB said:


> Good, lets redden some. 'Cause redden is fun. I like redden. Do you like redden?



Yes it is, but unhealthy.
Want to be redden?...


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## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

Akatora: The single most unintentially funny poster in the forum.


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## Shiftle (May 30, 2008)

Me personally, I'm a bit of a Kubotard (probably only one on these forums) so I'll overrate Bleach from time to time. I'll still admit OP is better, but hopefully with these upcoming arcs the gap will close. On the other hand, I've never really liked Naruto, and Sasuke v. Itachi killed it for me. As most other people have said in this thread, the order for me is:

1. OP
2. Bleach
3. Naruto


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## Akatora (May 30, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Akatora: The single most unintentially funny poster in the forum.



Ty for your donation, now if you would simply start supporting with more  donations and you'll eventually experience even more from up the hat.


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## p-lou (May 30, 2008)

Wow, another OP, Naruto, and Bleach thread.  I've never seen one of these before.  



Swajio said:


> I like redden!



REDDEN IS GOOD!!!


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## Zephos (May 30, 2008)

> 1. ehh yeah and? redden my eyes from reading to far into em could be possible.




lol, what does this even mean.



> 2. It is simple look you have a line in OP it is even called the grand line and You kinda know where the borders are. People want and Expect far different stories from Bleach and Naruto and of cause it's not possible to give everyone what they want.



What??



> I Despise when some call a manga perfect even if i have done so myself, Bleach IS NOT PERFECT and i have never said it was.



No matter how hard you hit that strawman you won't draw blood.



> 3. Yeah and why do u comment on it mr *top cat*astrophe?



I swear I felt the whole internet freeze for a second there.



> 4. Well to be honest Your among the people that has made me go from seeing OP as a standard 5-6/10 series to a 3/10 in how enjoyable it is.



I have nothing to do with One Piece.
"two points off for JERKS."



> If you hype up something to much some will start to dislike it more and more.
> Look at how many peoples opinions have changed upon Naruto for instance



That has to do with it sucking.


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## Zephos (May 30, 2008)

3. Yeah and why do u comment on it mr *top cat*astrophe?


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## MdB (May 30, 2008)

Akatora said:


> And look at this? all u have suggested was pretty much what an 8 year old would have said, try thinking out of your box.
> It's none constructive in any way. And you don't think that there's series I'd say got better story telling then bleach?



What the hell is your point? One Piece is a fucking shounen, created for teenage boys. It doesn't contain a very deep story with mind-boggling characterization. So guess why it's easy for an 8 year old to point out its flaws.



Akatora said:


> And you don't think that there's series I'd say got better story telling then bleach?



Does it look like I give a darn? Unlike you, I never set up a straw man to knock your (incoherent) argument down.


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## Mr. All Sunday (May 30, 2008)

I like One Piece and Bleach they are both really cool

One Piece is really neat I really like the parts with fighting

Bleach has good fights too I like when Ichigo goes bankai

Naruto is not good


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## Mr. All Sunday (May 30, 2008)

hold it were people complaining about the protagonists winning in One Piece because it is predictable

you are all ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)


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## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

Common LULZworthy 'complaints' about One Piece:

1)* NO ONE DIES!!!111* Tell that to Bellemare, Olivia, Saul, Kurina, Dr. Hiruluk, Gol. D Roger, Brook's crewmates, the 100 bounty hunters at Whiskey Peak, a sh#tload of soldiers and rebels in Alabasta, etc.

2) *The art is bad.* EMS. Uhh, no. Especailly compared to Kishi's character design and Kubo's backgrounds (which are nonexistant)

3) *Everything is predictable.* Bullsh#t. OP is full of ACTUAL plot twists and revelations unlike Naruto. (Who DIDN'T see Yondaime being Naruto's father not coming? And the complete ridiculousness of the Itachi revelation is so crap its hard to belief Kishi actually thought it was a good idea.) Bleach is actually okay with plot when it actually gets to it.

4) *The characters are ugly. *Not being bishies =/= ugly.

I could go on of course.


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## Akatora (May 30, 2008)

Hmm maybe i should simply do all of us a favor and stay away from any Topic involving anything related to OP for as long as possible...

And perhaps instead talk about more interesting series such as: Psyren, Devilman, Trinity Blood, Berserk, Tenjou Tenge among others...

There you have it, if you see me post in a thread like this involving OP again do all of us a favor and remind me of this.


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## Random Nobody (May 30, 2008)

You'd think people would be tired of One Piece dominating threads like this by now.


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## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

They just like to redden the same things over and over again.


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## Zephos (May 30, 2008)

Akatora said:


> Hmm maybe i should simply do all of us a favor and stay away from any Topic involving anything related to OP for as long as possible...
> 
> And perhaps instead talk about more interesting series such as: Psyren, Devilman, Trinity Blood, Berserk, Tenjou Tenge among others...
> 
> There you have it, if you see me post in a thread like this involving OP again do all of us a favor and remind me of this.



No we want you to stay away from Berserk topics as well, lest we have to hear why talking bear hunting dogs are more violent than demonic rapes straight out Bosche paintings.


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## tictactoc (May 30, 2008)

Lol. Shitting on two average mangas, while fanwanking another average manga. Funny 
And I still don't understand all the hype on Fairy tail. Generic and bland, that's how I view this manga, nothing more, nothing less.


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## Zephos (May 30, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> Lol. Shitting on two average mangas, while fanwanking another average manga. Funny
> And I still don't understand all the hype on Fairy tail. Generic and bland, that's how I view this manga, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Doom85 (May 30, 2008)

First of all, Sylar, OP's lack of deaths never bothers me (why would a Straw Hat die? Luffy would, god, I don't know how Luffy would respond. It'd be pointless, though), but this just in: when people talk about deaths, then mean non-flashback deaths. Killing off a character in a flashback takes about as much as guts as leaving your house to get the mail. The audience rarely, if ever, has emotional ties to a character only briefly seen in flashbacks, as opposed to a character they've been following for a long time. That's basic storytelling 101. Oda knows this, and has said he just doesn't like to kill characters. I respect this, and at least he has the deceny not to fake tension when we really have no reason to fear for the good guys' lives (*cough* Bleach *cough* DBZ *cough*).

Anyway, OP and Naruto are both incredible for me. But while I enjoy Bleach, I don't think it can even compare to these two. Everything Kubo does, Oda and Kishi just seem to do better. I actually feel invested in the majority of the characters of OP/Naruto, whereas in Bleach, I barely give a shit about 20% of them. And Ichigo's "I went from noob to uber-god in 55 episodes" was like PnJ on crack with a side order of WTF?!. Yes, the story demanded it, but Kubo could have balanced out all the "resuce Rukia" party members rather than handing one a ton of abilities while ignoring (and even de-powering one) the others.


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## tictactoc (May 30, 2008)

No. Just no


----------



## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> First of all, Sylar, OP's lack of deaths never bothers me (why would a Straw Hat die? Luffy would, god, I don't know how Luffy would respond. It'd be pointless, though), but this just in: when people talk about deaths, then mean non-flashback deaths. Killing off a character in a flashback takes about as much as guts as leaving your house to get the mail. The audience rarely, if ever, has emotional ties to a character only briefly seen in flashbacks, as opposed to a character they've been following for a long time. That's basic storytelling 101. Oda knows this, and has said he just doesn't like to kill characters. I respect this, and at least he has the deceny not to fake tension when we really have no reason to fear for the good guys' lives (*cough* Bleach *cough* DBZ *cough*).
> 
> Anyway, OP and Naruto are both incredible for me. But while I enjoy Bleach, I don't think it can even compare to these two. Everything Kubo does, Oda and Kishi just seem to do better. I actually feel invested in the majority of the characters of OP/Naruto, whereas in Bleach, I barely give a shit about 20% of them. And Ichigo's "I went from noob to uber-god in 55 episodes" was like PnJ on crack with a side order of WTF?!. Yes, the story demanded it, but Kubo could have balanced out all the "resuce Rukia" party members rather than handing one a ton of abilities while ignoring (and even de-powering one) the others.



Funny because OP's flashback deaths are much more emotional than any of Naruto's or Bleach's. Bellemere's, Olivia's, and Dr. Hiruluk's in paticular are some of the best moments in OP.


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## Kenny Florian (May 30, 2008)

Naruto in it's prime was great kind of like a vivid memory now. Back when Rock Lee, Shikamaru, Neji, and Garaa(SP) ment something to the story. Now it's just Uchiha and Naruto cry this. IMO Orochimaru was a better villain than either Pain(Pein) or Madara. The fights have become boring as hell too.

Bleach I've always found generic and while it had its moments it was always when the main cast had nothing to do with the plot. Orihime, Ichigo, and Rukia feel like they're choking the life out of Bleach. The fights are pretty meh to with all the generic sword swing, energy blast, Orihime's healing, ect. The only reason I find it better now is because it's focusing more on Kisuke, Hiyori, and Mayuri.


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## C-Moon (May 30, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Funny because OP's flashback deaths are much more emotional than any of Naruto's or Bleach's. *Bellemere's*, Olivia's, and Dr. Hiruluk's in paticular are some of the best moments in OP.




Arlong shot her in the face, right?


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## Codde (May 30, 2008)

Megaharrison said:


> Sasuke is very popular in Japan so therefore he must be a great character.


He's popular relative to other Naruto characters. And he very well might be a great character relative to the ones Kishimoto actually give screen time.

And the difference in it's reception might simply come down to the quality of the three series.


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## Zephos (May 30, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> No. Just no



My aim is true.


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## Zephos (May 30, 2008)

Megaharrison said:


> Sasuke is very popular in Japan so therefore he must be a great character.



When was this posted and why did it not derail the thread into an endless fit of laughter.


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## Doom85 (May 30, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Funny because OP's flashback deaths are much more emotional than any of Naruto's or Bleach's. Bellemere's, Olivia's, and Dr. Hiruluk's in paticular are some of the best moments in OP.



Wonderful, but completely irrelevant. We're not talking about emotions, we're talking about risky deaths, something's that a little less SUBJECTIVE. Killing off a flashback character will rarely result in any fanbase outcries. Who cares (in the long run, that is), it was just some guy/girl who's isn't directly present in the ongoing story. Off a character who's actually a part of the ongoing story, that's actually a bold move, and has more of an impact on the story as opposed to a death that was already an established part of the story (regardless of whether it was unknown to the reader/viewer). All the deaths you listed were sad at the time for a particular character(s), yes, but they don't have as much lasting impact on me as a character who is killed and it affects almost everyone.

Thanks for not calling me a OP-hating Narutard, though, as that would be pretty off seeing as I'm currently watching the OP Season 1 DVD on my PC (all fans should buy it, and it makes a great gift for those yet to see the show! ).


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## tictactoc (May 30, 2008)

Zephos said:


> When was this posted and why did it not derail the thread into an endless fit of laughter.



Sarcasm detector said hello


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## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> Wonderful, but completely irrelevant. We're not talking about emotions.





Doom85 said:


> The audience rarely, if ever, has *emotional* ties to a character only briefly seen in flashbacks, as opposed to a character they've been following for a long time.





> we're talking about risky deaths, something's that a little less SUBJECTIVE. Killing off a flashback character will rarely result in any fanbase outcries. Who cares (in the long run, that is), it was just some guy/girl who's isn't directly present in the ongoing story. Off a character who's actually a part of the ongoing story, that's actually a bold move, and has more of an impact on the story as opposed to a death that was already an established part of the story (regardless of whether it was unknown to the reader/viewer). All the deaths you listed were sad at the time for a particular character(s), yes, but they don't have as much lasting impact on me as a character who is killed and it affects almost everyone.
> 
> Thanks for not calling me a OP-hating Narutard, though, as that would be pretty off seeing as I'm currently watching the OP Season 1 DVD on my PC (all fans should buy it, and it makes a great gift for those yet to see the show! ).



Honestly I'll always see Dr. Hiruluk's death as far superior to anything in either Bleach or Naruto.



Gamma Akutabi said:


> Arlong shot her in the face, right?



He shot her in the heart right in front of her daughters.


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## tictactoc (May 30, 2008)

Doom85 has been misunderstood.
Even if the death of flashback characters in OP are the most emotional thing ever, you normally know those characters will die at the end of it. Those characters are created for this sole purpose, dieing to affect the characters whose being developed.
It's not the same thing for characters interacting in the actual story. Fans of a character expect him to be involved in the story until the very end.
For example, Hughes's death in FMA had a bigger impact on me than Nami's death. Because I was surprised by his death, and I didn't think Arakawa would dispose of him so soon.


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## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

Uh Nami didn't die...


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## Zephos (May 30, 2008)

"Suprise" doesn't make it better.


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## tictactoc (May 30, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Uh Nami didn't die...



I meant Nami's mother.


			
				Zephos said:
			
		

> "Suprise" doesn't make it better.


Sure. 
But that's not my point. When you kill an interesting character interacting in the actual story, it brings tension, because the other protagonists (except the main ones) are not protected by the plot anymore (or at least it creates the illusion that they're not). 
Yes, if the flashback is nicely written it will be emotional, and it will develop the characters, but...that's it. It doesn't bring anything new to the table, since it just explains why a character has a certain state of mind. And it certainly doesn't bring tension.


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## Taleran (May 30, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> Doom85 has been misunderstood.
> Even if the death of flashback characters in OP are the most emotional thing ever, you normally know those characters will die at the end of it. Those characters are created for this sole purpose, dieing to affect the characters whose being developed.
> It's not the same thing for characters interacting in the actual story. Fans of a character expect him to be involved in the story until the very end.
> For example, Hughes's death in FMA had a bigger impact on me than Nami's death. Because I was surprised by his death, and I didn't think Arakawa would dispose of him so soon.



death = death


the only thing not included in the OP story is the filler made by the anime

period


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## Fang (May 30, 2008)

Wasn't Nico Oliva shoot right in view of her daughter and Akainu slaughtering helpless civilians in order to make sure not a single researcher from Robin's island would survive?


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## armorknight (May 30, 2008)

I have read OP, Bleach, and Naruto, and I can honestly say that OP is in a higher quality league than the other two. OP has better main characters, better character development,
better plot presentation/pacing, better plot twists, and better fight pacing than Bleach
and Naruto. 

OP also manages to generate an immense amount of emotion and drama without 
killing any of its main characters, which is something I really respect in a shounen.
It takes a lot of creativity from the mangaka to achieve this.

OP also has no major flaws unlike Bleach and Naruto. Naruto's biggest flaw to me is
that the main cast (Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura) are really terrible characters. Bleach is
just a minefield of  major flaws, so I'm not even going to bother.


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## Taleran (May 30, 2008)

Yeah and tom was taken away to enact the Judges rule, Bellemere becaus she didn't have enough money, Hiluluk because he was  poisoned etc etc


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## Midus (May 30, 2008)

I think we're all overlooking the fact that Brooke is a frikkin' skeleton....


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## Fang (May 30, 2008)

Tom's character in general had a better personality then all of the main characters of Bleach and Naruto put together.

I seriously enjoyed his personality and interactions with Franky and Iceburg.


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## tictactoc (May 30, 2008)

Taleran said:


> death = death
> 
> 
> the only thing not included in the OP story is the filler made by the anime
> ...



Because Zoro's death would have the same impact than Nami's mother death right ?
Right ?
Right ?
Damn why the facepalm smiley is out :/


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## Fang (May 30, 2008)

Hey guys remember how emotionally powerful Asuma's death was?


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## Taleran (May 30, 2008)

that depends on how the scene is handled

time frame doesn't effect anything else in a scene except itself


so lets say that the scene didn't happen 20 years in the past would it have meant more to you


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## Megaharrison (May 30, 2008)

Zephos said:


> When was this posted and why did it not derail the thread into an endless fit of laughter.



Indeed it should be laughed at, as it was using the same logic as this laughable thread.


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## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Wasn't Nico Oliva shoot right in view of her daughter and Akainu slaughtering helpless civilians in order to make sure not a single researcher from Robin's island would survive?



Bellemare was shot by Arlong in front of Nami and her sister.

Olivia was killed by the Buster Call when she and the rest of the archeologists tried to save as many books from the Tree of Knowledge from burning. The rest of the citizens got on a WG provided evacuation ship but Akainu blew it up in front of Robin to prevent anyone who might have learned of the Void Century from escaping. Basically everyone on Ohara, save Robin thanks to Aokiji, were murdered by the WG.


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## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Hey guys remember how emotionally powerful Asuma's death was?


And once again you totally miss the point. 


Taleran said:


> that depends on how the scene is handled
> 
> time frame doesn't effect anything else in a scene except itself
> 
> ...



If I had followed Nami's mother for 200 chapters, yes it would have meant more for me -___-

And LOL @ telling all the OP flashbacks. 
They are not more emotional than Naruto's and Bleach's because of what basically happen in it ( Nami seeing her mother dieing...how is it sadder than Haku having to kill his own father ?) they are more emotional because of Oda's writing . But y'all are the OP fans, the ones defending it to death. You probably all knew that already amirite ? 
But y'all are the O


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## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Why are you even bringing up the 200 chapter thing like OP is the only one to do it.
Naruto and Bleach havn't killed off any main characters either.


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## Fang (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> And once again you totally miss the point.



Trying to make a brittle argument by passing the "lack of main character" death in OP so I counter with lack of "depth" in the deaths of minor and support characters in Naruto.

I guess that flew over your head.


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## Codde (May 31, 2008)

If you consider the Going Merry an actual character (the author and the characters do), then it'd be a major character dying outside of a flashback that was there for quite a while.


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## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Hokage III
Asume (lol)
Jiraiya
Itachi

Those are the biggest deaths in Naruto.
None of them are main characters.
And I felt little to no emotion whatsoever during the last three.
Know what did work? 
Zabuza's death and Haku's.
We knew them for two volumes.

Quality, not Quantity.
Quality, not Suprise.
Quality, nothing else.


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## Doom85 (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> For example, Hughes's death in FMA had a bigger impact on me than Nami's death. Because I was surprised by his death, and I didn't think Arakawa would dispose of him so soon.



Actually, I didn't like how Hughes' death was handled in the manga. He started strong as a supporting character, but then kinda vanished for quite a few chapters, then showed up for 10 pages and BAM!, dead. Kinda felt it could have been paced better. Don't get me wrong, I consider FMA the king of shonen manga, but the earlier parts could've been better. Maybe I'm only saying that because the anime was able to flesh out earlier stuff even more (Nina, the Slicer brothers, Hughes, etc.).

But of course, the greatest death in manga/anime goes to Mr. Spike Speigel. "Bang" = pure epic.

"death = death"

Brillaint logic. On that same note, "story = story", "manga = manga", and "fail = fail".  You completely misunderstood my point. When the flashback for a OP character begins, the flashback character that dies was already dead prior to the beginning of the story. Therefore, he has no DIRECT impact on the story. Backstory is different from the ongoing story. It only affects one or a few main characters, and is simply used for explaining current events rather than actually moving the story forward.

I mean, if the Harry Potter series (I hate using such an overmentioned series, but I figure everyone's read/watched it) had never killed a good guy, but all these good guys were dying in backstory, wouldn't you call "bullshit!" eventually? I mean, I'm sorry Mr. Kubo, but where in the beginning of Bleach did it say, "and so a +10 magic defense shield was placed over every protagonist, ensuring there would be no further deaths in the forseeable future"?

Like I said, I'm fine with OP never killing anyone (significant good guys, that is, so don't mention fodder or villains) during the main story (NOT backstory), because that's not the sort of story Oda planned to make. I respect that, and I enjoy OP for the sort of series it's supposed to be, which some of its haters can't seem to grasp. With Bleach, and other certain shonen series though, they never give that sort of impression that OP has. In fact, they often go for the opposite approach. I mean, geez, Renji's lost enough blood to fill a whole swimming pool! At least in OP, if a character gets severely injured, they have to deal with the consequences for a while (Zoro's nasty wound from Mihawk hindering him in the Arlong fights, for example). Bleach, nope, apparently everyone's carrying around Max Potions and Phoenix Downs. So don't worry, Renji, yes you just lost a massive amount of blood against Ichigo and Byakuya in only a few days time span, but you must have some sort of Wolverine-level regeneration, because you're going to pull through!


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## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Why are you even bringing up the 200 chapter thing like OP is the only one to do it.
> Naruto and Bleach havn't killed off any main characters either.



I was just giving Doom85 a hand (even though I partially agree with him), since Sylar hadn't understood his point.
I know Naruto and Bleach haven't killed off any main characters. However some good guys (even if they're totally expected deaths) still died in Naruto. Oda could have disposed of Pell, it would have done an excellent character death. And even if he reappears now... What would he do ? :/ Oda doesn't need to expand his story anymore, he will easily hit the 1000 chapters with all the shit he has to develop right now.
And like I already said, all three are just nice read to me... It may look like I'm defending Naruto to death, but it's just because everyone is shitting on it, while glorifying generic shonens like Fairy tail. If OP was at Naruto's place in this forum, I would look like a big OPtard, even though I have a little preference for Naruto.



			
				Mirai Gohan said:
			
		

> Trying to make a brittle argument by passing the "lack of main character" death in OP so I counter with lack of "depth" in the deaths of minor and support characters in Naruto.
> 
> I guess that flew over your head.


"Brittle" argument ? That's not even an argument, that's a fact right now :/ And for the rest, read above, seriously you're always on the other side of the road, getting everything wrong. Are you doing that on purpose ?


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## Fang (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> "Brittle" argument ? That's not even an argument, that's a fact right now :/ And for the rest, read above, seriously you're always on the other side of the road, getting everything wrong. Are you doing that on purpose ?



Are you seriously ignorant or obtuse? I'm asking you why there is no emotional importance to people like Itachi, Jiraiya and Asuma's deaths vs Tom, Nice Oliva, and the others in One Piece?

Or are you simply inventing made up contexts to hide the fact that you can't argue a point because you don't know how to by simply attacking other posters such as myself with ad homiem attacks?

Other side of the road, getting everything wrong? You clearly have no idea how to defend a point or simply don't know how to. Thank you for showing me you can't make a case out of the shitty and boring deaths of those none major characters of Naruto.

Jesus Christ.


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## Taleran (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> I was just giving Doom85 a hand (even though I partially agree with him), since Sylar hadn't understood his point.
> I know Naruto and Bleach haven't killed off any main characters. However some good guys (even if they're totally expected deaths) still died in Naruto. Oda could have disposed of Pell, it would have done an excellent character death. And even if he reappears now... What would he do ? :/ Oda doesn't need to expand his story anymore, he will easily hit the 1000 chapters with all the shit he has to develop right now.
> And like I already said, all three are just nice read to me... It may look like I'm defending Naruto to death, but it's just because everyone is shitting on it, while glorifying generic shonens like Fairy tail. If OP was at Naruto's place in this forum, I would look like a big OPtard, even though I have a little preference for Naruto.
> 
> ...




Why do you keep bringing Fairy Tale into this?


and technically the main characters of the story don't know that Pell is alive so as far as the story is concerned he is dead


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## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Are you seriously ignorant or obtuse? I'm asking you why there is no emotional importance to people like Itachi, Jiraiya and Asuma's deaths vs Tom, Nice Oliva, and the others in One Piece?
> 
> Or are you simply inventing made up contexts to hide the fact that you can't argue a point because you don't know how to by simply attacking other posters such as myself with ad homiem attacks?
> 
> ...






			
				ME said:
			
		

> And LOL @ telling all the OP flashbacks.
> They are not more emotional than Naruto's and Bleach's because of what basically happen in it ( Nami seeing her mother dieing...how is it sadder than Haku having to kill his own father ?) they are more emotional because of Oda's writing


See this part of my post ? It's me saying that OP is more emotional  than Naruto.
But you're so self centered and completely absorbed by your Oda's fanboyism, that you don't understand my posts  
So of course you feel the need to bring Naurautoe in the debate, when I already said that it was just a nice read, and an average shonen, meaning that I had already recognized some of its flaws. Something that you can't do with OP apparently, since you're forced to bring up another manga to defend it -___-.
See ? Inventing arguments when they don't exist, good job 



			
				Taleran said:
			
		

> Why do you keep bringing Fairy Tale into this?
> 
> 
> and technically the main characters of the story don't know that Pell is alive so as far as the story is concerned he is dead


I keep bringing Fairy tail, because people keep overrating it.
Bad habit of mine, I'll admit.
And about Pell, we know that he's still alive, that's the most important thing IMO :/


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## Doom85 (May 31, 2008)

Taleran said:


> Why do you keep bringing Fairy Tale into this?
> 
> 
> and technically the main characters of the story don't know that Pell is alive so as far as the story is concerned he is dead



Funny, a moment ago, you were saying "death = death". Now apparently "life = death". 

Also, story, characters, two seperate things. Does the reader know Pell is alive? Yes. Is it canon fact that Pell is alive in the manga? Yes. What the main characters know is hardly relevant. It affects their moods and actions, that's about it. To the reader, they know Pell is alive. Simple as that.


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## Midus (May 31, 2008)

Can't we all just agree that HxH is better than all three and call it a day?


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## Fang (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> See this part of my post ? It's me saying that OP is more emotional  than Naruto.
> But you're so self centered and completely absorbed by your Oda's fanboyism, that you don't understand my posts
> So of course you feel the need to bring Naurautoe in the debate, when I already said that it was just a nice read, and an average shonen, meaning that I had already recognized some of its flaws. Something that you can't do with OP apparently, since you're forced to bring up another manga to defend it -___-.
> See ? Inventing arguments when they don't exist, good job





			
				Originally Posted by Mirai Gohan said:
			
		

> Wasn't Nico Oliva shoot right in view of her daughter and Akainu slaughtering helpless civilians in order to make sure not a single researcher from Robin's island would survive?




I like how you still haven't argued on the Asuma, Itachi and Jiraiya deaths in the manga. I like how you can't make any points but blatantly flame-bait.

I like how this sounds like a concession to me. I like how you try to poison the well by using your bias repeatedly in every thread you argue you. Where did I see that Oda was better then Kishimoto once in the this thread? *I challenged you to specifically explain why three major support character deaths were trivial and you never once answered them.*

Bolded for you to actually see instead of just fucking ignorning.

I like how reading comprehension isn't working for you. I like how your still restorting to calling anyone who detracks and refutes your argument a fanboy or tard.


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## Taleran (May 31, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> Funny, a moment ago, you were saying "death = death". Now apparently "life = death".
> 
> Also, story, characters, two seperate things. Does the reader know Pell is alive? Yes. Is it canon fact that Pell is alive in the manga? Yes. What the main characters know is hardly relevant. It affects their moods and actions, that's about it. To the reader, they know Pell is alive. Simple as that.



thank you for pointing out the obvious?

We know hes not dead, SH's don't thats all I said, interpret it how you like


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## Doom85 (May 31, 2008)

Midus said:


> Can't we all just agree that HxH is better than all three and call it a day?



Still need to read that one (though I may wait to see if the series will ever finsih, for starters). Insert FMA instead, and we're on the same page.


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## Taleran (May 31, 2008)

lol FMA lol


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## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> I like how you still haven't argued on the Asuma, Itachi and Jiraiya deaths in the manga. I like how you can't make any points but blatantly flame-bait.
> 
> I like how this sounds like a concession to me. I like how you try to poison the well by using your bias repeatedly in every thread you argue you. Where did I see that Oda was better then Kishimoto once in the this thread? *I challenged you to specifically explain why three major support character deaths were trivial and you never once answered them.*
> 
> ...



Jiraya's death was not trivial. Personally I liked it, it was nicely done. It was not tear jerking, but good.
Asuma was NOT a major support character .
Itachi has nothing to do  in this debate. I'm talking about real protagonists, not main character's nemesis. Even though we discover that he was not a villain in the end, for most of the story he was one, so of course I won't include his death in this.
And lol @ conceding, conceding means there was an argument you know ?


----------



## Gary (May 31, 2008)

Arcanis said:


> Wait till you visit the Outskirts Battledome.
> 
> The OP wanking is strong...



though it is they don't over doing it to much =/


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## Sylar (May 31, 2008)

OP > HxH. 

Enjoy HxH and I hope that when the next chapter comes out in 2023 you realize that HxH is officially no longer 'good'. Sure if you read every chapter without stopping you'd think it was good, but having to wait years, I repeat YEARS, one more time, YEARS, between chapters is just f#cking unacceptable. There is no excuse, none, for Togashi's laziness, and that's what it is. Pure unjustified laziness. Hell Oda will probably finish his next series in the time it takes HxH to end.


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## Doom85 (May 31, 2008)

Taleran said:


> thank you for pointing out the obvious?



Hey dude, you were the first to say "x = x", so I don't think I should be the one being branded "captain obvious" around here.

I don't see how we're supposed to be emotionally involved or shocked or ANYTHING once we found out Pell was alive. Emotion? Why are we crying over someone's who alive? Shock? Uh, yeah at the start, but doing a shock death and revealing he's alive makes it wear off fast.

Like I said, OP doesn't deal with deaths in the ongoing story. And for the last time, I'm FINE with that. People seem to keep bringing up OP deaths constantly like it's the end of the world if they admit OP doesn't kill off major good guys in the ongoing story. Guys, IT'S OKAY. Oda himself said he doesn't do that sort of thing, it's not a big of a deal. Quit overreacting because, guess what? One Piece doesn't have to cover every single theme, storytelling technique, etc. for it to be awesome. Not killing off major good guys isn't a fault, because the story doesn't present itself in a deceptive way, nor is it a theme that Oda explores except through backstory. OP isn't going to do everything, nor should it. OP doesn't really deal with romance much, nor should it, but is anyone going to freak out if I mention the lack of romance in a non-criticizing way? I should hope not.

So let's all settle down. People have apparently gotten so paranoid around these sorts of threads (though, who can blame them?) that they're seeing negative criticism when it's actually nothing of the sort. Stop trying to start arguments when we're actually on the same page.


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## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Taleran said:


> lol FMA lol



FMA kind of shits on every on going shounen.


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## atom (May 31, 2008)

One Piece = Turkey, takes a while to cook, but in the end it'll taste good
Bleach = Gummy Worms, sweet and look yummy, but it isn't "premium food"
Naruto = Ramen, quick, generic,  but its proven and sometimes has sudden bursts of great flavor.


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## Taleran (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> FMA kind of shits on every on going shounen.



sure go on thinking that


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## AbnormallyNormal (May 31, 2008)

well clearly your choice of threads is highly biased to say the least.


----------



## Ryuzaki (May 31, 2008)

Naruto, has a much more interesting plot-line and great set of characters that are all around supported. You don't have to like the animation nor do you have to like the voice-actors or the subbed versions, but I think in terms of story lines and aspects of realism, Naruto is in the lead by far, when compared w/Bleach & OP.

Now that's not taking away from the originality and storyline of One Piece but Naruto seems more down to earth than OP. OP has a great set of characters but one thing that made me mad was that when it's time to go came, the author continued based on hype. Or at least that's the short version I got from ANN.


----------



## Midus (May 31, 2008)

Sylar said:


> OP > HxH.
> 
> Enjoy HxH and I hope that when the next chapter comes out in 2023 you realize that HxH is officially no longer 'good'. Sure if you read every chapter without stopping you'd think it was good, but having to wait years, I repeat YEARS, one more time, YEARS, between chapters is just f#cking unacceptable. There is no excuse, none, for Togashi's laziness, and that's what it is. Pure unjustified laziness. Hell Oda will probably finish his next series in the time it takes HxH to end.



The wait doesn't bother me and I've been reading HxH for years now. Same thing has happened to Berserk. Still doesn't stop Berserk from being the top Seinen manga going at the moment. The wait only gives me time to re-read and appreciate the story even further. 

Really hard for me to say which I really like the most though. I was half joking about HxH being better than all three(better than Bleach and Naruto IMO). I've been reading HxH far longer than OP, so I have a bias there. I still consider OP, HxH, and FMA to be the top tier Shonen manga.


----------



## Lusankya (May 31, 2008)

Midus said:


> Can't we all just agree that HxH is better than all three and call it a day?



I humbly disagree.


----------



## C. Hook (May 31, 2008)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> Naruto, has a much more interesting plot-line and great set of characters that are all around supported.




All around supported? I hope that was sarcasm. Currently, there's only one group of Naruto characters: THE UCHIHAS!



SoLiOZuZ said:


> You don't have to like the animation nor do you have to like the voice-actors or the subbed versions, but I think in terms of story lines and aspects of realism, Naruto is in the lead by far, when compared w/Bleach & OP.



Realism? None of them are realistic, but in terms of realistic enviroments and personalities, One Piece wins by far. Water 7>Leaf Village. 



SoLiOZuZ said:


> Now that's not taking away from the originality and storyline of One Piece but Naruto seems more down to earth than OP. OP has a great set of characters but one thing that made me mad was that when it's time to go came, the author continued based on hype. Or at least that's the short version I got from ANN.



You did not read One Piece? The current arcs hold all the quality of older arcs. One Piece isn't finished not because the author is forced to churn out pages (Dragonball after Frieza), but because the author loves his manga and keeps putting in all the interesting ideas. The current arc, Shabondy Archipelago, is getting so much love it's ridiculous.

As for this thread, it's funny. Why? Because it's going to get locked, and another thread will come in.

Edit: Taleran, why do you hate FMA? Sure, the first few chapters were enormously rushed, but the later parts of the manga are incredibly good.


----------



## Sylar (May 31, 2008)

LOL at OP _losing _quality.


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> Naruto, has a much more interesting plot-line and great set of characters that are all around supported. You don't have to like the animation nor do you have to like the voice-actors or the subbed versions, but I think in terms of story lines and aspects of realism, Naruto is in the lead by far, when compared w/Bleach & OP.
> 
> Now that's not taking away from the originality and storyline of One Piece but Naruto seems more down to earth than OP. OP has a great set of characters but one thing that made me mad was that when it's time to go came, the author continued based on hype. Or at least that's the short version I got from ANN.



Naruto's sole quality is its unintentional humor.


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2008)

MdB is right, Naruto is funny and "quality" for all the wrong reasons.


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

there all tier 3 manga, maybe I should say one piece is upper tier 3 to make the fanboys happy, end of thread......


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> Naruto, has a much more interesting plot-line and great set of characters that are all around supported. You don't have to like the animation nor do you have to like the voice-actors or the subbed versions, but I think in terms of story lines and aspects of realism, Naruto is in the lead by far, when compared w/Bleach & OP.
> 
> Now that's not taking away from the originality and storyline of One Piece but Naruto seems more down to earth than OP. OP has a great set of characters but one thing that made me mad was that when it's time to go came, the author continued based on hype. *Or at least that's the short version I got from ANN.*



You havn't even read it/watched it.

Your the stupidest person on the thread yet,


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> there all tier 3 manga, maybe I should say one piece is upper tier 3 to make the fanboys happy, end of thread......



Just out of curiousity what are Tier 1's and 2's.


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> You havn't even read it/watched it.
> 
> Your the stupidest person on the thread yet,



How the fuck could I overlook that.



SoLiOZuZ said:


> Naruto, has a much more interesting plot-line and great set of characters that are all around supported. You don't have to like the animation nor do you have to like the voice-actors or the subbed versions, but I think in terms of story lines and aspects of realism, Naruto is in the lead by far, when compared w/Bleach & OP.
> 
> Now that's not taking away from the originality and storyline of One Piece but Naruto seems more down to earth than OP. OP has a great set of characters but one thing that made me mad was that when it's time to go came, the author continued based on hype. Or at least that's the short version I got from ANN.



Just when I need Spectre's image macro of reigning king of faggotry, I can't fucking find it.


----------



## armorknight (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> there all tier 3 manga, maybe I should say one piece is upper tier 3 to make the fanboys happy, end of thread......



I like all 3, but I have to say OP is in a higher tier than Bleach
and Naruto. It's in the same tier as d.gray man and kekkaishi.

I guess the one thing that Naruto has over OP is that its 
fights contain some intelligence and don't rely on utter brutality
like OP fights. That doesn't really hurt OP though because it still
has excellent fights that are far better paced than Naruto fights.

I like how Bleach as automatically received 3rd place lol.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (May 31, 2008)

OP works because Oda left it so open in every way.  An island can be any style and a DF can give you any power.  In this way he avoids inconsistency because there is no real formula to his power system.  He does plan things well but people give him way too much credit in that respect.  He originally was going to end with Crocodile so obviously not all of these late connections are planned.  

I give Oda a lot of credit for how well he's kept up this story but to say there's no dues ex machina(it exists in every story) or that he planned everything from the start is just blind fanboyism.


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

in my opinion, there are 5 tiers of shounen manga, only 3 tiers of seinin manga for obvious reasons.

Tier 1
Claymore
Full Metal Alchemist
Hunter X Hunter 

Tier 1 manga are simply above the rest. I believe that these mangas hit all the _great_ points and then some. Storylines are usually complex, and intricate. With many emotional ranges not only "written" in the manga, but expressed to the reader. These mangas tend to be extremely logical and usually don't rely on typical shounen mechanics  (not saying that shounen mechanics suck but these mangas go far beyond that). I could go on, but basically these mangas are in an arena that goes beyond simply being a shounen or even seinin, they are universally great. 

Tier 2
Soul Eater
Eyeshield 21
Bio-Meat nector
Hajime-no Ippo
Bloody monday(from what I see so far)
tista(from what I see so far)

Tier 2 manga are generally exceptional manga that can easily be considered tier 1 if it wasn't for the fact I put very few manga in tier 1. They are much better then tier 3 but not exactly tier 1. 

Tier 3
One Piece
Naruto
Bleach

Tier 3 manga are the best at being shounen. Their not above or below their target audience. You can consider them shounen royality, the bench mark in which any new shounen is compared to. Personally i don't follow manga that aren't as good or better then tier 3 manga. 

Now concerning one piece. Between bleach, naruto, and one piece, One piece is the most consistent of the two. One Piece, every chapter is a decent chapter, with maybe 2-5 chapters in the whole arc being truely execeptional, those chapters usually have Luffy or Zora showing how badass they are(I'm a Sanji fan btw), with Sanji generally being impressive when Oda wants him to be(like in the thriller bark arc). Naruto and Bleach however are a different story. You have great chapters, slow chapters, dumb chapters, chapters that make you cry, chapters that make you go wtf, shit arcs, great arcs, and various other ups and downs. Naruto and Bleach has understandably infinitely more potential to disappoint its audience then One piece, which doesn't have nearly as much range, though only a handful of one piece chapters truly stand out. All I have to say is, THEY ARE FUCKING SHOUNEN GET OVER IT!

Tier 4 
D-grayman(forgot about this guy....which is why it belongs in tier 4)
Air Gear
FairyTale
666 Satan
Psyren
Inyusha(used to be tier 3..........I'm not willing to consider it tier 5 though it belongs their...)
Yu-Gi-Oh(I actually didn't bother finish reading after the anime came out, on a rainy I may go through the manga and bump it down or above a tier)

And generally mangas of that quality belong there. They aren't as good as tier 3, but they are readable, which is much, much, much, much, much, much more better then the shounen that belong in tier 5....

Tier 5
Yu-Gi-Oh GX

....and i think you get the idea.


----------



## Codde (May 31, 2008)

The Faint Smile said:


> OP works because Oda left it so open in every way.  An island can be any style and a DF can give you any power.  In this way he avoids inconsistency because there is no real formula to his power system.  He does plan things well but people give him way too much credit in that respect.  He originally was going to end with Crocodile so obviously not all of these late connections are planned.


When was it stated he was going to end with Crocodile? As it would seem a bit odd as he's mentioned going to Fishman Island at the halfway point in the grandline (they're finally near there) quite a while ago (, which was right after they got into the Grandline.) 

I recall him saying at one point that he already planned things out such as the ending and the deal regarding Brooke, but the actual timing he planned to do things is "off" (as in occuring much later than initally expectd to the point where he says he doesn't know when the manga will end now despite an initial 5-year plan).



> I give Oda a lot of credit for how well he's kept up this story but to say there's no dues ex machina(it exists in every story) or that he planned everything from the start is just blind fanboyism.


I don't see how it's fanboyism if it's going by what the author himself has stated.


----------



## Sylar (May 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> How the fuck could I overlook that.
> 
> Just when I need Spectre's image macro of reigning king of faggotry, I can't fucking find it.



Here ya go. 





The Faint Smile said:


> OP works because Oda left it so open in every way.  An island can be any style and a DF can give you any power.  In this way he avoids inconsistency because there is no real formula to his power system.  He does plan things well but people give him way too much credit in that respect.  He originally was going to end with Crocodile so obviously not all of these late connections are planned.
> 
> I give Oda a lot of credit for how well he's kept up this story but to say there's no dues ex machina(it exists in every story) or that he planned everything from the start is just blind fanboyism.



Oda never said he was ending at Crocodile, only that he only meant for it to last 5 years originally. Brook has been planned from the beginning among other things.


----------



## MuNaZ (May 31, 2008)

RamzaBeoulve said:


> guys, to be fair, kishi can be very unpredictable at times
> 
> but that is because all his plot developments make no sense, it's so BS that no one would have thought of it to begin with, hence, he is very unpredictable



well... not for me... usually the first thing that comes to my mind is crap.... so it's easy to predict kishi work 



The Faint Smile said:


> OP works because Oda left it so open in every way.  An island can be any style and a DF can give you any power.  In this way he avoids inconsistency because there is no real formula to his power system.  He does plan things well but people give him way too much credit in that respect.  He originally was going to end with Crocodile so obviously not all of these late connections are planned.
> 
> I give Oda a lot of credit for how well he's kept up this story but to say there's no dues ex machina(it exists in every story) or that he planned everything from the start is just blind fanboyism.



What?
you do know the manga is named One Piece?
you read the manga? if you did you would know something from chapter 18 (i think) as been recently reappeared in the manga..
you do know there's more than one Shichibukai... Crocodile wasn't the first one to appear.... 


At the character death's....
my favorite characters on naruto were Jiraya and Itachi... (pre time skip... like there was something really worthy after that ) their deaths were crap... fuck when a boat "death" is more emotional than side characters death there's something weird going on....


----------



## armorknight (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> in my opinion, there are 5 tiers of shounen manga, only 3 tiers of seinin manga for obvious reasons.
> 
> Tier 1
> Claymore
> ...



Hmm, I think OP should be somewhere in between tier 2 and 
tier 3. Sure it's not good enough to be in tier 2, but it isn't nearly
bad enough to be put in the same tier as bleach and naruto. OP
is more emotional, has better characters, and uses better plot devices than
naruto and especially bleach. I forgot to mention that OP
has much better character development than naruto or bleach.


----------



## Midus (May 31, 2008)

I personally feel that One Piece and Fair Tail should be higher while Eyeshield 21, Claymore, and Biomeat should be lower. Everyone has their own opinion on the matter though.


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2008)

Personally, Inuyasha/Naruto and Bleach deserve to be at the bottom barrel of Shonen Jump mangas.

Eyeshield 21, One Piece, HxH (for the most part), Fairy Tail are simpy way better.


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

Claymore higher than Hajime no Ippo. 

Right....

One Piece easily belongs in a tier higher, while the other 2 deserve to be a tier lower.


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2008)

What is Biomeat?

And screw your Ippon, MdB.


----------



## Tash (May 31, 2008)

In terms of quality OP=Soul Eater imo. Bump it up a tier for this particular fanboy.


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> And screw your Ippon, MdB.



What.....?


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2008)

Eyeshield 21 is better then HnI in my eyes.


----------



## Zetta (May 31, 2008)

What faggotry is this? 


As I've said before, Bleach and Naruto have gone to shit. I'll take FT,Soul Eater and Hitman Reborn over them any day.


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Hmm, I think OP should be somewhere in between tier 2 and
> tier 3. Sure it's not good enough to be in tier 2, but it isn't nearly
> bad enough to be put in the same tier as bleach and naruto. OP
> is more emotional, has better characters, and uses better plot devices than
> ...



over estimating one piece by alot...

emotonal? well if you consider laughter an emotion sure. The manga might present different emotional cordes, but as the reader, all I get is lol's, if not any lol's at all. To make my point clearer, lets bring up Camie almost being a slave. I don't even feel sorry for the girl. It's not heart breaking, or even gut wrenching, it has no edge, no feel. people can get shot in one piece and you almost want to lol. You take that same situation in a tier 1-2 manga, and i be shedding tears, saying "that shit fucked up man!". 

better character? luffy is just as generic as natsu from fairytale......(though I personally think fairytale 'borrows" from one piece). Robin and Nami are notable because they are believable, something very few shounens can boast of. Its the relationship between Zoro, Luffy and Sanji that make them exceptional and not the characters themselves. Remarkable villians? Enel and Croc. Everyone else is just Luffy's punching bag in comparison. 

Story? Is it truly better then what bleach and naruto got going on? Not really. I consider one piece story writting consistent, which really doesn't leave me room to feel too strongly about the manga. It's great, I read it, but i'm not talking about it all week.  

Bleach just has ONE bad arc and naruto...well some can argue at least 2 lol. But the quality didn't suddenly drop to tier 4 and it doesn't necessarily make one piece too good for tier 3 either.


----------



## mystictrunks (May 31, 2008)

One Piece isn't as good as people hype it up to be. I mean I still check for it, but I still check for Inuyasha so that doesn't say much. I don't believe Oda had/has every planned either. Naruto's pretty good, but people seem to dislike it because it's more character based then world based. Bleach is boring.


----------



## Tash (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> over estimating one piece by alot...
> 
> emotonal? well if you consider laughter an emotion sure.



A man willingly ingest poison to make his adopted son believe he had found a cure to his illness, and then blows himself up so nobody can say that his son was the cause of his death. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Damn that is some FUNNY SHIT MAYN.


----------



## Frosch (May 31, 2008)

on-topic: I would pick OP over Bleach and Naruto if most character's design didn't hurt my eyes

Swordsman giraffe? fighter ballerina of ambiguous gender? ugly nose guy? nothx


----------



## mystictrunks (May 31, 2008)

Swajio said:


> A man willingly ingest poison to make his adopted son believe he had found a cure to his illness, and then blows himself up so nobody can say that his son was the cause of his death. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Damn that is some FUNNY SHIT MAYN.



It is, when you consider how over the top it is.


----------



## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> One Piece isn't as good as people hype it up to be. I mean I still check for it, but I still check for Inuyasha so that doesn't say much. I don't believe Oda had/has every planned either. Naruto's pretty good, but people seem to dislike it because it's more character based then world based. Bleach is boring.



IMO Kishimoto should have tried to really insert the major ninjas villages in the manga (something that he still can do BTW, with Sasuke trying to destroy Konoha).
if he doesn't do that, that will be my only problem with this manga.


----------



## Codde (May 31, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> One Piece isn't as good as people hype it up to be. I mean I still check for it, but I still check for Inuyasha so that doesn't say much. I don't believe Oda had/has every planned either. Naruto's pretty good, but people seem to dislike it because it's more character based then world based. Bleach is boring.


Having it being character-focused is a valid complaint if they dislike it due to the focus on a small fraction of characters introduced and not liking the characteres that are focused on.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> IMO Kishimoto should have tried to really insert the major ninjas villages in the manga (something that he still can do BTW, with Sasuke trying to destroy Konoha).
> if he doesn't do that, that will be my only problem with this manga.



That is one thing he should have done a long time ago. Perhaps after the Rescue Gaara-arc.


----------



## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Code said:


> Having it being character-focused is a valid complaint if they dislike it *due to the focus on a small fraction of characters introduced and not liking the characteres that are focused on.*



It becomes a matter of opinion then.



			
				Black leg Sanji said:
			
		

> That is one thing he should have done a long time ago.


For what ? Kishi wouldn't have been able to develop them anyway, so they would have just been there, doing nothing. 
By creating Suigetsu there's already a big chance that the mist village will be introduced in the manga. Now that the whole Uchiha thing is solved, and that Danzou, a warhawk, is completely involved in the story, Kishimoto can introduce the other villages, for a big battle royal.


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

Swajio said:


> A man willingly ingest poison to make his adopted son believe he had found a cure to his illness, and then blows himself up so nobody can say that his son was the cause of his death. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Damn that is some FUNNY SHIT MAYN.



You know your post gave me the most lol's i had today. You know what was an emotional moment? The moments before and during (before ichigo came anyway) Rukia execution. I felt for rukia as she wrestled with her emotions, in some chapters winning, in another chapter, even just the next page, losing. It was beautifully done, and I really felt for rukia, though i kinda knew that ichigo will probably save the day. 

The first time I read the story you mentioned in one piece, I kept wondering to myself, "will this idiot join luffy crew? I hope he doesn't, he probably will, geez that must suck for him"


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> Tier 1
> Claymore
> Full Metal Alchemist
> Hunter X Hunter
> ...



You need to go read some more fucking manga.


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> You know your post gave me the most lol's i had today. You know what was an emotional moment? The moments before and during (before ichigo came anyway) Rukia execution. I felt for rukia as she wrestled with her emotions, in some chapters winning, in another chapter, even just the next page, losing. It was beautifully done, and I really felt for rukia, though i kinda knew that ichigo will probably save the day.



Dont make me laugh, oh wait, I already did. The whole melodramatic crap with Rukia felt forced and corny as fuck. What next? Stating the you almost cried because of Inoue's sadness after leaving that bland main cast of douchebags?

And part 2 of Naruto as a whole is always consistent in its shittyness. It's consistent for more than 2 arcs.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> One Piece isn't as good as people hype it up to be. I mean I still check for it, but I still check for Inuyasha so that doesn't say much. I don't believe Oda had/has every planned either. Naruto's pretty good, but people seem to dislike it because it's more character based then world based. Bleach is boring.



Naruto was character based in Part1.
In Part 2 it's Sasuke based.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

> over estimating one piece by alot...
> 
> emotonal? well if you consider laughter an emotion sure. The manga might present different emotional cordes, but as the reader, all I get is lol's, if not any lol's at all. To make my point clearer, lets bring up Camie almost being a slave. I don't even feel sorry for the girl. It's not heart breaking, or even gut wrenching, it has no edge, no feel. people can get shot in one piece and you almost want to lol. You take that same situation in a tier 1-2 manga, and i be shedding tears, saying "that shit fucked up man!".



So, when exactly are you going to argue your points.


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2008)

Its also amazing how Naruto has done nothing revelant to the plot in 62 chapters, or over three volumes since the Immortals Arc finished.


----------



## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Naruto was character based in Part1.
> In Part 2 it's Sasuke based.



At least the whole Uchiha thing is OVER now. Sasuke's actions will now affect the actual plot, and not his personal story. You would have preferred that it keeps going until the end of the manga ?


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

Why is it even called Naruto?


----------



## atom (May 31, 2008)

Who cares whether or not a manga is better then another? Just read whatever you like.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> in my opinion, there are 5 tiers of shounen manga, only 3 tiers of seinin manga for obvious reasons.
> 
> Tier 1
> Claymore
> ...



Hold up hold up, I read this more throughly....

_There isn't a single seinen manga on that list._
Not a one.

Yet your saying the Tier 2 and Tier 1's are Seinen?

And your saying Seinen is inacapable of going below Tier 3?


FUCKING LOL


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> At least the whole Uchiha thing is OVER now. Sasuke's actions will now affect the actual plot, and not his personal story. You would have preferred that it keeps going until the end of the manga ?



Did I _say_ Uchia focused?


No I didn't, my complaint was clearly Sasuke.

And guess whose now the focal point even more.


----------



## Tash (May 31, 2008)

The only really emotional moments in Bleach were the Grand Fisher chapters. Rukia trapped in SS is pretty generic in manga, hell it's not even original to Bleach itself.

And Zephos brings up a good point. Go read Berserk and see how it stacks up to some of those tier 1 and 2 manga.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman, come back, I want to laugh at you more.

Unless you left to read an actual Seinen manga.
Yknow.
Like not HunterXHunter, FMA, or Claymore.

Actual Seinen.


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

I dont care if you like Bleach for other reasons. But for intense drama... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

And that tier list is seriously fucked up beyond belief. Claymore and shit rivaling mangas like Vagabond, Akira, Berserk, Lone Wolf and Cub, Pluto etc. It reeks of ignorance.


----------



## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Did I _say_ Uchia focused?
> 
> 
> No I didn't, my complaint was clearly Sasuke.
> ...



Sasuke is the only protagonist belonging to the Uchiha clan, if Kishimoto wanted to end the whole Uchiha plot, who was supposed to be the focal point ?
And after the last chapter, we don't know if Sasuke will be the focal point. But even if he is (I seriously doubt it), his action will actually bring something new to the actual plot.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Swajio said:


> The only really emotional moments in Bleach were the Grand Fisher chapters. Rukia trapped in SS is pretty generic in manga, hell it's not even original to Bleach itself.
> 
> And Zephos brings up a good point. Go read Berserk and see how it stacks up to some of those tier 1 and 2 manga.



Berserk would be Tier 3 for me. s would One Piece, though I think Berserk is better.

Tier 2 would be stuff like ...Maus and Vagabond, Lone Wolf and Cub.



Tier 1.....

Tier 1 there are only two titles I've read that would fit there.
Watchmen..and Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind. Best manga/comic ever.

Nausicaa would walk through Wuzzman's Tier 1's like they weren't even there.


----------



## Codde (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> It becomes a matter of opinion then.


Generally judging manga as a whole is a subjective thing regardless of whether or not you think your opinion is fact.

Though I'm sure many may have a problem with how exactly he develops the characters and not just whether or not they like it (but giving how Naruto is often bashed due to not liking "Sasuke" or another character, not many people might judge it like that.)


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> Sasuke is the only protagonist belonging to the Uchiha clan, if Kishimoto wanted to end the whole Uchiha plot, who was supposed to be the focal point ?
> And after the last chapter, we don't know if Sasuke will be the focal point. But even if he is (I seriously doubt it), his action will actually bring something new to the actual plot.



He just declared war on the good guys village.
He basically just instated himself as the main antagonist.


----------



## MuNaZ (May 31, 2008)

omg i didn't notice he was calling hxh and FMA seinen big lol....

now that you mentioned berserk.. after Band of the Hawk arc (the flashback) i should love the manga right?


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Hold up hold up, I read this more throughly....
> 
> _There isn't a single seinen manga on that list._
> Not a one.
> ...



reading is fundemental, i only listed shounen because i have 5 tiers for shounen................................................................. i judge seinin differently from shounen, seinin only really as 3 tiers in my opinion, great, readable, and trash....and i didn't list all the manga i read, just the ones that i could name off the top of my head.....


----------



## Ennoea (May 31, 2008)

> I dont care if you like Bleach for other reasons.* But for intense drama... *



Whoever said that needs to be shot

And really Watchmen? The conclusion was pretty awful to be honest, its still amazing but not really tier 1 stuff.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> reading is fundemental, i only listed shounen because i have 5 tiers for shounen................................................................. i judge seinin differently from shounen, seinin only really as 3 tiers in my opinion, great, readable, and trash....and i didn't list all the manga i read, just the ones that i could name off the top of my head.....



You said Tier 3 was the top for shonen. Than went ahead and put shonen in Tier 2 and Tier 1.

Writing is fundamental.


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> reading is fundemental, i only listed shounen because i have 5 tiers for shounen................................................................. i judge seinin differently from shounen, seinin only really as 3 tiers in my opinion, great, readable, and trash....and i didn't list all the manga i read, just the ones that i could name off the top of my head.....



Your just making up excuses again.
Just like in the OBD.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> Whoever said that needs to be shot
> 
> And really Watchmen? The conclusion was pretty awful to be honest, its still amazing but not really tier 1 stuff.



How was Watchmen's ending awful?
What were you expecting some big fight?
You do know I'm talking about the american comic right?


----------



## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> He just declared war on the good guys village.
> He basically just instated himself as the main antagonist.



Madara did the same thing years ago, Pein will probably try to destroy Konoha too. Kabuto will probably do the same thing too, since he wants to surpass his master, and Orochimaru was unable to destroy this village.
BTW by making Sasuke say that, he'll be able to make all the forgotten jounins/chuunins of Konoha ect... reappear, since they're in Sasuke's aim. Now if Sasuke had disappeared to "find his inner peace" like some Uchihatards wanted him to do (grey character lulz), it could have been bad for the plot, especially if Kishimoto decided to make Sasuke the focal point.


----------



## Zed (May 31, 2008)

WTF? One Piece of shit is better than Naruto and Bleach.

One Piece is for kids.


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> You said Tier 3 was the top for shonen. Than went ahead and put shonen in Tier 2 and Tier 1.
> 
> Writing is fundamental.



when did I say that again?


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Hashirama-Sama said:


> WTF? One Piece of shit is better than Naruto and Bleach.
> 
> One Piece is for kids.



Just like Naruto and Bleach.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> when did I say that again?



"Tier 3 manga are the best at being shounen. Their not above or below their target audience. You can consider them shounen royality"

Why you seperate shonen and seinen in the first place is beyond me.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> Madara did the same thing years ago, Pein will probably try to destroy Konoha too. Kabuto will probably do the same thing too, since he wants to surpass his master, and Orochimaru was unable to destroy this village.
> *BTW by making Sasuke say that, he'll be able to make all the forgotten jounins/chuunins of Konoha ect... reappear, *since they're in Sasuke's aim. Now if Sasuke had disappeared to "find his inner peace" like some Uchihatards wanted him to do (grey character lulz), it could have been bad for the plot, especially if Kishimoto decided to make Sasuke the focal point.



In the bolded: wishful thinking. Kishi lost my trust years and years ago.

This is still going to be Sasuke focused. His character is larger to the plot than Pein an Orobuto. Both of which are awful characters as well.
Pein essentially being an acid-trip version of Sasuke.
And Oro will probably be after Sasuke's ass.


----------



## Sylar (May 31, 2008)

Hashirama-Sama said:


> WTF? One Piece of shit is better than Naruto and Bleach.
> 
> One Piece is for kids.



Do you know which two mangas are aimed at exactly same demographic as One Piece? Naruto and Bleach.

Oh and a mother being shot in the heart right in front of her daughters is really kiddy rite?


----------



## Ennoea (May 31, 2008)

> How was Watchmen's ending awful?
> What were you expecting some big fight?
> You do know I'm talking about the american comic right?



I hardly expected any fights, the ending was fairly stupid to be honest, it was far too random to make sense. I got what the writer was trying to show but it just wasn't a satisfying enough of an ending.



> One Piece is for kids.



They're all for kids.


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

Hashirama-Sama said:


> WTF? One Piece of shit is better than Naruto and Bleach.
> 
> One Piece is for kids.



It's aimed at the same age group as the other two. Stupidity need to have its limits.


----------



## MuNaZ (May 31, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Do you know which two mangas are aimed at exactly same demographic as One Piece? Naruto and Bleach.
> 
> Oh and a mother being shot in the heart right in front of her daughters is really kiddy rite?



ofc it is... i still remember when i was a kid watching on tv at like 9/10 AM seeing on Evangelion Eva 01 crazy and eating and Angel alive... such a sweet moment... oh wait what was that we were talking about?


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2008)

Hashirama-Sama said:


> WTF? One Piece of shit is better than Naruto and Bleach.
> 
> One Piece is for kids.



Three mangas from Shonen Weekly Jump.

Shonen meaning Boys.

Do the math.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> I hardly expected any fights, the ending was fairly stupid to be honest, it was far too random to make sense. I got what the writer was trying to show but it just wasn't a satisfying enough of an ending.



Random??

If there's one thing you can't accuse Watchmen of it's randomness.

It's one of the most intricately structured stories there is. Have you read it only once? 
The hints at Adrian being responsible will leap out at you on second reads.

It sounds like you were setting yourself on expecting a certain something from the ending and are upset when you were very wrong.


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> "Tier 3 manga are the best at being shounen. Their not above or below their target audience. You can consider them shounen royality"
> 
> Why you seperate shonen and seinen in the first place is beyond me.



cause they are written for 2 different audiences......for a shounen tier 3 is what any new shounen should be judged by and if they happen to be better, tier 2 and 1 they may belong. For a seinin, you have the really great like berserk, but then you have the seinen like gantz.....


----------



## Sylar (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> cause they are written for 2 different audiences......for a shounen tier 3 is what any new shounen should be judged by and if they happen to be better, tier 2 and 1 they may belong. For a seinin, you have the really great like berserk, but then you have the seinen like gantz.....



What's wrong with Gantz? Its one of the few manga where NO ONE is safe from dying.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

> cause they are written for 2 different audiences......



So what.

I mean really.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

I actually strongly agree with him about Gantz.
It's a pretty mindless series that gets by on tits and gore and a really interesting base concept.

Not on substance.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (May 31, 2008)

MuNaZ said:


> What?
> you do know the manga is named One Piece?
> you read the manga? if you did you would know something from chapter 18 (i think) as been recently reappeared in the manga..
> you do know there's more than one Shichibukai... Crocodile wasn't the first one to appear....



First of all, don't ask me dumbass questions I obviously know to try and put yourself on a higher plane.  I find it's usually the the most ignorant people who are the most condescending.  Like many others have said, he planned on ending it much earlier...maybe not at Crocodile but I think it would be around there if you do the math with the chapters.  


Maybe he did plan Brooke, but when people act like he's a genius by tying a new character to an old forgotten one I have to laugh because that's really not that difficult when you leave almost everything unexplained.  He left all the strongest character's bounties unknown, most people's pasts are largely unknown or have large chunks of time missing.  All I'm saying is that he does a really good job of never writing himself into a corner and people revere him as God when he makes connections back or finally reveals something.

Edit- Anyway, OP is pretty enjoyable but there's a lot of stuff that's better.  Gunnm, Berserk, Vagabond, Slam Dunk, Monster, 20th Century Boys, Akira...those are the top from what I've read.


----------



## MuNaZ (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> I actually strongly agree with him about Gantz.
> It's a pretty mindless series that gets by on tits and gore and a really interesting base concept.
> 
> Not on substance.



what i've read on berserk i could say the same... ok i'm lying.... it had some story but it didn't appealed to me one bit... the concept on Gantz for me is far more interesting... dunno tastes are tastes...


----------



## Midus (May 31, 2008)

Gantz stopped being interesting once Vampires were introduced. Was great up till that point though.


----------



## Sylar (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> I actually strongly agree with him about Gantz.
> It's a pretty mindless series that gets by on tits and gore and a really interesting base concept.
> 
> Not on substance.



I'll never put Gantz above series like Monster, 20th Century Boys, Berserk, etc but I like how over the top it is at times.


----------



## MuNaZ (May 31, 2008)

The Faint Smile said:


> OP works because Oda left it so open in every way.  An island can be any style and a DF can give you any power.  In this way he avoids inconsistency because there is no real formula to his power system.  He does plan things well but people give him way too much credit in that respect.  *He originally was going to end with Crocodile so obviously not all of these late connections are planned.
> *
> I give Oda a lot of credit for how well he's kept up this story but to say there's no dues ex machina(it exists in every story) or that he planned everything from the start is just blind fanboyism.



i see Crocodile name mentioned there.... end with Crocodile... maybe i was an ass but you wrote it very badly if you wanted to mention the 5 years original plan....

oh yeah... Phase 2 from Gantz doesn't compare to the original that's for sure....


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

MuNaZ said:


> what i've read on berserk i could say the same... ok i'm lying.... it had some story but it didn't appealed to me one bit... the concept on Gantz for me is far more interesting... dunno tastes are tastes...



Berserk has an incredibly engrossing story, it's a character based story that's premise expects you to care about the people in it and how they'll work out there issues withe eachother.
It's a superbly done revenge story.

Of course if you only read the first three volumes...

While it does have lots of guts and nudity, it pays equal attention to everything. 
Miura will render a monster eating babies with careful detail, AND will render a ballroom dress or cottage with careful detail.


----------



## MuNaZ (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Berserk has an incredibly engrossing story, it's a character based story that's premise expects you to care about the people in it and how they'll work out there issues withe eachother.
> It's a superbly done revenge story.
> 
> Of course if you only read the first three volumes...
> ...



well the 3 volumes was on the first try...
then someone told me it was better after that... read the flashback thing from the Band of the Hawk... it had a lot of elements i should love but it didn't click for me...


----------



## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> In the bolded: wishful thinking. Kishi lost my trust years and years ago.


If there's a war, they'll have to be there



			
				Zephos said:
			
		

> This is still going to be Sasuke focused. His character is larger to the plot than Pein an Orobuto. Both of which are awful characters as well.
> Pein essentially being an acid-trip version of Sasuke.
> And Oro will probably be after Sasuke's ass.


If Sasuke is the main antagonist, the focus won't be on him. Personally  I think he will disappear for some time, Kishimoto didn't focus on him after the fight against Team 7, why would he do that now ? Until now he was the focal point because the author wanted to end the Uchiha massacre storyline. That's it.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (May 31, 2008)

Midus said:


> Gantz stopped being interesting once Vampires were introduced. Was great up till that point though.



Gantz went to shit for me after the author started implying there was a larger story/plt behind everything and that it would be revealed only to not bothering and go back to the typical fair. To me Gantz has become utterly uninteresting except for the lulz and wtf now.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

> If there's a war, they'll have to be there



No they wouldn't.
They could be offscreen, or they could be used teh same way Kishi has used them for the past 20 volumes.
Cart them out to fight or stand around doing nothing but making their mindless fans cheer.
Than pull them back quickly.



> If Sasuke is the main antagonist, the focus won't be on him.



Explain Part 2.



> Personally  I think he will disappear for some time, Kishimoto didn't focus on him after the fight against Team 7, why would he do that now ? Until now he was the focal point because the author wanted to end the Uchiha massacre storyline. That's it.



Sasuke has been the focus of the overall story since Volume 20.
It's Volume 44 now.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Gantz went to shit for me after the author started implying there was a larger story/plt behind everything and that it would be revealed only to not bothering and go back to the typical fair. To me Gantz has become utterly uninteresting except for the lulz and wtf now.



I stopped reading after the Shinjuku Massacre.

I have no idea whatsoever what the author was even thinking at that point.

I think my main problem was the series had no pulse, not a single character was beleivable.
It had no human life in it.


----------



## MdB (May 31, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Gantz went to shit for me after the author started implying there was a larger story/plt behind everything and that it would be revealed only to not bothering and go back to the typical fair. To me Gantz has become utterly uninteresting except for the lulz and wtf now.



Basically this, although I still read it 'cause it only takes 1 minute to skimp through a chapter. And I'm a completist.


----------



## tictactoc (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> No they wouldn't.
> They could be offscreen, or they could be used teh same way Kishi has used them for the past 20 volumes.
> Cart them out to fight or stand around doing nothing but making their mindless fans cheer.
> Than pull them back quickly.


Off screen ? When their own village is under attack ? Doubt it even tough it's possible...





			
				Zephos said:
			
		

> Explain Part 2.


Sasuke wasn't the focus point of the Gaara's rescue arc. He wasn't the focus point of the Shikamaru's revenge arc. He wasn't the focus in the Jiraya vs Pain's fight. Until the last arc, he was linked to the story because Naruto, the main character, wants him back to Konoha.
Sasuke only took over the story in the last arc, since he was the character that we were following, and Kishimoto was actually developing the whole Uchiha massacre.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (May 31, 2008)

Well the author kind of made his character like they were rpg characters, with each fitting a generic role that doesn't go beyond that.

------Ontopic 
Op> Naruto> Bleach because  Nar/ Ble have shitter ass dialogue, that makes shitter ass story telling. It's that simple to me, although there are various other reasons one can implement.  Imo, Naruto would be a much better if Kishimoto just order/structured his stroy telling better. Kishi gives me the feeling I had when writing a first draft of my novel. Basically, you get so wrapped up in one element or piece of your stroy you just forget about everything else for awhile. Oda's story feels like that of a completled novel that has been looked over by editors, and of which has had the "like" factor of its character tested in survey's. ---


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 31, 2008)

Of Naruto, OP and Bleach, I do believe One Piece is the better of the three. I never really had any issues with the direction Oda has taken his story, it rarely seems that things were poorly contrived, or added at the last minute. My enjoyment of  OP has remained rather constant since the Water 7 arc though, but that's mostly a good thing. I feel of the three (Kubo, Oda, Kishi,),  Oda does the best job regarding character development and of course, exploring the environments of the world he has created.

Bleach atm seems to be doing better than Naruto. I do kinda feel the flashbacks seemed initially out of place given what was currently going on, but most of the HM arc sucked and I think the flashback chapters have been pretty good for the most part (at least when compared to HM arc). 

Naruto...I really enjoyed Part I of the series. I just saw this series as one with so much potential regarding each of its characters, the world it was set in, etc. You had interesting characters like Shikamaru, Lee, Gai and Neji. Naruto may not have been original for a main character, but I found him likeable. He was gutsy, he was confident, and seemed well on his way to his coming of age (at least in Part I). The introduction of the great villages, the mysterious (at the time) organization Akatsuki, and the Orochimaru/Sasuke dilemma. I was really optimistic about Kishi's writing, and for good reason. 

Some time into Part II though, that seemed to waver greatly. Side characters got shafted, the antagonists died pretty pathetically and whatever threatening presence in  Part I was disappearing. Even the main and title character seemed to have degraded in character, and what's worse was being totally shafted as well. Then there's well, Sasuke. He's a Gary Stu, and practically the main character now. Everything ties to him, everything is about him. The good guys want him, the bad guys want him. He's accomplished more in Part II than Naruto has or most anyone for that matter. I just feel this whole Uchiha thing was poorly contrived in attempts to keep Sasuke relevant. Madara being alive, making Itachi out to be a good person...eh...I just feel the series could've done without these things. A new arc seems to be starting now, so I have a shred of optimism for what's in store for the future...only a shred... Sasuke's death


----------



## Soul Evans (May 31, 2008)

One Piece is far better than the other 2 mangas. Damn, it's simply funny and intelligent. One Piece is almost like a dream with sky islands, submarines islands, and everything. Oda's criativity has no limits.

Bleach is ok. I mean, it's there, for free... helps to pass the time. It's not good but it's not bad.

Naruto is simply horrible. That kind of teenage drama that Kishimoto try to sell us is ridiculous.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

> ]Off screen ? When their own village is under attack ? Doubt it even tough it's possible...



You trust Kishi, for some unknown reason, I don't.




> Sasuke wasn't the focus point of the Gaara's rescue arc. He wasn't the focus point of the Shikamaru's revenge arc. He wasn't the focus in the Jiraya vs Pain's fight. Until the last arc, he was linked to the story because Naruto, the main character, wants him back to Konoha.



Thats why I said overall plot.
The momentum has been Sasuke. Naruto's goal has been Sasuke.


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

Zephos said:


> So what.
> 
> I mean really.



would you review an rpg game the same way you would review a fps?


----------



## Sylar (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> would you review an rpg game the same way you would review a fps?



Are the characters interesting? Is the plot good? Is it fun to play? Does it look good? Does it have varied enviroments? Is there any incentive to replay it?


----------



## armorknight (May 31, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Of Naruto, OP and Bleach, I do believe One Piece is the better of the three. I never really had any issues with the direction Oda has taken his story, it rarely seems that things were poorly contrived, or added at the last minute. My enjoyment of  OP has remained rather constant since the Water 7 arc though, but that's mostly a good thing. I feel of the three (Kubo, Oda, Kishi,),  Oda does the best job regarding character development and of course, exploring the environments of the world he has created.
> 
> Bleach atm seems to be doing better than Naruto. I do kinda feel the flashbacks seemed initially out of place given what was currently going on, but most of the HM arc sucked and I think the flashback chapters have been pretty good for the most part (at least when compared to HM arc).
> 
> ...



Your post has made me realize why I'm so frustrated with Naruto right now.
Naruto himself just plain sucks as a main character. He's being outperformed
by Sasuke in every aspect now. If they both fought right now, Sasuke would
beat Naruto without trying. 

Naruto and Luffy are actually from the same generic vein. They're dumb
main protagonists who want to protect their friends. However, Luffy pulls
off this role so much better than Naruto that it's ridiculous. Luffy may
be dumb, but he's actually mature and knows what move is best for his
team. He can both lead and inspire his comrades (as opposed to just
inspiring). He can protect his comrades while utilizing them to their full
potential and trusting them to get certain jobs done. Lastly, Luffy can back
up all of his big talk because he has good battle skills. 

I was expecting Naruto to gain these qualities (especially battle skills)
after the time skip. However, he just continues to disappoint me at every
turn. All he does is give stupid upgrades to his rasengan.

Also you bring up a good point about parts I and II of Naruto.
Part I of Naruto vs. OP is a decent fight, but part II
is gutter trash compared to OP right now.


----------



## Zephos (May 31, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Are the characters interesting? Is the plot good? Is it fun to play? Does it look good? Does it have varied enviroments? Is there any incentive to replay it?



Owned.

Not to mention your analogy was horrible beyond words.
The age range difference is hardly as large as structural difference between an RPG or FPS.


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Of Naruto, OP and Bleach, I do believe One Piece is the better of the three. I never really had any issues with the direction Oda has taken his story, it rarely seems that things were poorly contrived, or added at the last minute. My enjoyment of  OP has remained rather constant since the Water 7 arc though, but that's mostly a good thing. I feel of the three (Kubo, Oda, Kishi,),  Oda does the best job regarding character development and of course, exploring the environments of the world he has created.
> 
> Bleach atm seems to be doing better than Naruto. I do kinda feel the flashbacks seemed initially out of place given what was currently going on, but most of the HM arc sucked and I think the flashback chapters have been pretty good for the most part (at least when compared to HM arc).
> 
> ...



long rant.....


----------



## Wuzzman (May 31, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Are the characters interesting? Is the plot good? Is it fun to play? Does it look good? Does it have varied enviroments? Is there any incentive to replay it?



so gears of war sucks? cause it only fun to play and has very few new enviroments?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> long rant.....



Um, OK...and?


----------



## Doom85 (May 31, 2008)

Hey Zephos, you don't work for Animenewsnetwork, do you? Because your two Teir 1 series are the exact same as one of those guys on there (can't remember who, think it was Answerman).

And I agree, Watchmen is pure perfection, and it only gets better after each read. Haven't read the other one you listed yet.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (May 31, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> so gears of war sucks? cause it only fun to play and has very few new enviroments?



Way to go from a strawman argument to an off-topic one. Great job Wuzzman


----------



## MdB (Jun 1, 2008)

Wuzzman....


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 1, 2008)

The characters are better, the storyline, the enviroment. Of One Piece that is.

I read Naruto and Bleach every week as well..only to be disappointed but I just hope sometime it will be a little bit better again...

Oh about the first page people saying part 1 of naruto is better then part 1 of one piece (although one piece can't be really divided in parts..well perhaps East Blue part and Grandline part)
One Piece was good from almost the very beginning to me.

I really liked the stories told already with Zoro, Ussop, Sanji but especially Nami got me stuck on the series with Arlong, it was a very good arc and put it above Naruto right away.
I'm not saying I disliked Naruto part 1 because I really liked it expect perhaps the sannin-arc but overall I liked whole Naruto part 1. except part 2 sucks so much...it's like Masashi is going the same way as his brother Seishi and just rush the storyline just like Seishi did with 666 satan, maybe he wants to end or something.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 1, 2008)

> One Piece is far better than the other 2 mangas. Damn, it's simply funny *and intelligent. *



Im sorry but intelligent? Do you know the meaning of the word? OP is anything but intelligent. Read Eden, then you'll know what an intelligent manga looks like.


----------



## AbnormallyNormal (Jun 1, 2008)

my main problem with one piece is that somtimes it seems too silly or goofy. i think the reason oda is so creative is that he also lacks a certain serious or dramatic tone throughout the story. naruto is much better at maintaining this type of a tone. bleach is somewhere in between, it does occasionally lapse into absurd humor but it does have an overall serious and moralistic plot. one piece is just sort of.... crazy. i definitely agree one piece is less predictable though, and is a more "epic" plot, although to be fair it has a lot moer chapters than naruto or especially bleach.


----------



## Tash (Jun 1, 2008)

The only time OP's goofyness hit critical levels for me were those few chapters including Duval.


----------



## AbnormallyNormal (Jun 1, 2008)

the one guy from cp6 in the train fighting sanji whose abilities were to make himself into noodles.... that made me  a lot


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 1, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> Im sorry but intelligent? Do you know the meaning of the word? *OP is anything but intelligent*. Read Eden, then you'll know what an intelligent manga looks like.



Saying something is intelligent is a relative thing. One Piece can be intelligent at times for some people, intelligent always for others, and the bottom of the barrel in brains for the rest. Also, it's a shounen, which usually aren't meant to be philosophical.

On the other hand, saying something is anything but intelligent is just asking to be deconstructed, since the argument is finished with the first intelligent thing from One Piece someone shows you.

AbnormallyNormal... What the heck do you mean? Have you read Arlong Park (Probably, since you're as far up as the sea-train.)? Have you gotten to the Jaya Arc? There's some heavy moral themes in some One Piece arcs.


----------



## Codde (Jun 1, 2008)

I would say one of One Piece strong points is the fact that it's not monotnous(as it has no reason to be). Oda does a good job of creating the right mood for a situations with some exceptions (generally involving Luffy.)


----------



## Denizen (Jun 1, 2008)

Zephos said:


> 3. Yeah and why do u comment on it mr *top cat*astrophe?



Jesus christ, this thread.

This. Thread.

Also, I just want to say that some of the best shounens are those that don't take themselves so seriously. That's why I view manga like One Piece and Soul Eater a notch above other shounen. Though stuff like Vinland Saga and Hunter X Hunter will always be equally as good, sometimes better.


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2008)

Swajio said:


> The only time OP's goofyness hit critical levels for me were those few chapters including Duval.



here


----------



## p-lou (Jun 1, 2008)

Denizen said:


> Jesus christ, this thread.
> 
> This. Thread.
> 
> *Also, I just want to say that some of the best shounens are those that don't take themselves so seriously.* That's why I view manga like One Piece and Soul Eater a notch above other shounen. Though stuff like Vinland Saga and Hunter X Hunter will always be equally as good, sometimes better.



Quoted for fucking truth.  An author that recognizes what his work is being read for is a great thing.  Oda does a great job at realizing people read OP because it's fun and has a highly romanticized view of the world, not because it's going to break new literary boundaries.  

Kishi, on the other hand, is bringing an approach to Naruto that is completely unfitting.  Instead of keeping the light hearted fun of a story about a little loudmouth arrogant kid he's trying to make it serious business by attempting a piss poor imitation of Berserk.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jun 1, 2008)

Wow, another thread about OP vs. the rest of the Shonen Trinity. The reason why OP is better than Bleach and Naruto overall to me because it doesn't waste its potential and most if not everything actually has a point. The little amount of retcon also helps out a lot compared to Naruto or Bleach.

My biggest gripes about OP have been Pell surviving that bomb and some of the Deus Ex Machina. Comparing that to my list of things with Bleach and Naruto it isn't hard to figure out what I prefer.


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2008)

Jetstorm said:


> Wow, another thread about OP vs. the rest of the Shonen Trinity. The reason why OP is better than Bleach and Naruto overall to me because it doesn't waste its potential and most if not everything actually has a point. The little amount of retcon also helps out a lot compared to Naruto or Bleach.
> 
> My biggest gripes about OP have been Pell surviving that bomb and some of the Deus Ex Machina. Comparing that to my list of things with Bleach and Naruto it isn't hard to figure out what I prefer.



I thought it was because unlike Kishimoto in Naruto, Oda doesn't ignore his main character for over three volumes or to be precise, about sixty-three chapters. And doesn't suck at character development or design? And doesn't draw forests in his backgrounds all the time.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 1, 2008)

*12 PAGES?!!!*


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jun 1, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> I thought it was because unlike Kishimoto in Naruto, Oda doesn't ignore his main character for over three volumes or to be precise, about sixty-three chapters. And doesn't suck at character development or design? And doesn't draw forests in his backgrounds all the time.



I tried not to get too far in depth because I don't want to be in this thread all day. 

I'm sure you and other already listed the problems for me.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 1, 2008)

Jetstorm said:


> Wow, another thread about OP vs. the rest of the Shonen Trinity. The reason why OP is better than Bleach and Naruto overall to me because it doesn't waste its potential and most if not everything actually has a point. The little amount of retcon also helps out a lot compared to Naruto or Bleach.
> 
> My biggest gripes about OP have been Pell surviving that bomb and some of the Deus Ex Machina. Comparing that to my list of things with Bleach and Naruto it isn't hard to figure out what I prefer.



yes that was a big minus one of the few in one piece for me, Pell should have died, and ofcourse some skypieans...I mean..Wiper took electric attacks and a couple of reject-dials and still lived...ofcourse he had to have a change of heart and know about the story of Cricket who was still searching for the golden city...but everyone surviving was lame.


----------



## Ironhide (Jun 1, 2008)

Cuz Oda actually cares about his manga


----------



## armorknight (Jun 1, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> I thought it was because unlike Kishimoto in Naruto, Oda doesn't ignore his main character for over three volumes or to be precise, about sixty-three chapters. And doesn't suck at character development or design? And doesn't draw forests in his backgrounds all the time.



Kishi has been ignoring Naruto in favor of Sasuke since the beginning. It's
just become a lot more obvious in part II.


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2008)

Jetstorm said:


> I tried not to get too far in depth because I don't want to be in this thread all day.
> 
> I'm sure you and other already listed the problems for me.



They do actually.

They'll attack One Piece with, ITS FOR KIDS!


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jun 1, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> They do actually.
> 
> They'll attack One Piece with, ITS FOR KIDS!



Never mind that it is aimed at the same age group and serialized in the same magazine as Naruto and Bleach amirite?


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2008)

Indeed good sir you are.


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 1, 2008)

I saw someone mention Goofyness being a problem in OP. Seriously Ishida from Bleach has been nothing but goofy after his fight with Mayuri. I have only seen him serious for maybe 2 chapters. I'm not sure if I'm suppose to take him seriously anymore.


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2008)

Uyruu isn't goofy, he's boring. Almost as bad as Rukia is after the Soul Society Arc finished.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 1, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> so gears of war sucks? cause it only fun to play and has very few new enviroments?



I honestly don't know how to respond to this...


----------



## MdB (Jun 1, 2008)

The shift between the goofy and serious moments in One Piece is done very well compared to Naruto and Bleach. 

Keeping a badly done melodramatic tone all the damn time is fucking stupid.

SASUUKEH-KUUUN!!!!! I WANT YOO BEAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 1, 2008)

AbnormallyNormal said:


> my main problem with one piece is that somtimes it seems too silly or goofy. i think the reason oda is so creative is that he also lacks a certain serious or dramatic tone throughout the story. naruto is much better at maintaining this type of a tone. bleach is somewhere in between, it does occasionally lapse into absurd humor but it does have an overall serious and moralistic plot. one piece is just sort of.... crazy. i definitely agree one piece is less predictable though, and is a more "epic" plot, although to be fair it has a lot moer chapters than naruto or especially bleach.



Yeah Luffy should obviously cry over shanks getting his arm ripped off by a fish every chapter while the other mugiwara's cry over their sad pasts as well.

That would definitely bring One Piece's seriousness up to Naruto levels ::rolls eyes::


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 1, 2008)

Midus said:


> Gantz stopped being interesting once Vampires were introduced. Was great up till that point though.



I honestly think when Oku introduced fucking vampires he had no clue what he wanted to do with the story. By strange coincidence it was around this time he started taking 2 week-2 month breaks. And now that Kurono's gone the manga has turned into a complete piece of shit.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 1, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> I honestly think when Oku introduced fucking vampires he had no clue what he wanted to do with the story. By strange coincidence it was around this time he started taking 2 week-2 month breaks. And now that Kurono's gone the manga has turned into a complete piece of shit.



I'd argue but considering he gave that uber guy who's gotten 100 pts 7 times a f#cking mecha, I'd probably sound like Akatora.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jun 1, 2008)

Doom85 said:
			
		

> But of course, the greatest death in manga/anime goes to Mr. Spike Speigel. "Bang" = pure epic.



Nicolas D. Wolfwood, my dear friend, Nicolas D. Wolfwood.



Hmm... I like One Piece better than Bleach and Naruto as well. The other two never really managed to hold my interest. Though, the current Bleach flashback is doing quite well with that.


----------



## Shiftle (Jun 1, 2008)

In terms of humor, Kubo needs to bring back the enjoyable character dynamics he had going in the very first arc. It was done very well, especially when compared to recent stuff.


----------



## MdB (Jun 1, 2008)

At least it isn't as bad as waiters spilling ramen for more than 5 pages.


----------



## Han Solo (Jun 1, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Funny because OP's flashback deaths are much more emotional than any of Naruto's or Bleach's. Bellemere's, Olivia's, and Dr. Hiruluk's in paticular are some of the best moments in OP.



Imo, Dr. Hiruluk's speach about when a man _really_ dies is the single greatest moment in OP. 


Along with the concept designs of Sogeking and Ryuuma. 

As for answering the question... If I say that part one Naruto > the rest, does that count. You know, when Kishi actually cared about his manga? 

Otherwise One Piece shits on Naruto and Bleach.


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 1, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Uyruu isn't goofy, he's boring. Almost as bad as Rukia is after the Soul Society Arc finished.



He's given the kid maybe a handful of serious scenes since he's left SS. Other than that it's pretty much one gag scene after another. Hell the guys character has almost devolved into joke character status as far as a I can see. His little partnership with Peshe and Renji just made it worse.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 1, 2008)

Kishimoto obviously doesn't know how to handle a whole world the way Oda does. I mean just look at how everyone wants to destroy Konoha and how all the other villages mysteriously vanished outside of the sand village.

Why doesn't anyone in the Naruto world want to destroy any of the other villages? It's like Konoha has suddenly turned into the only "ninja" village around.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 1, 2008)

Hashirama-Sama said:


> WTF? One Piece of shit is better than Naruto and Bleach.
> 
> One Piece is for kids.



Seriously WTF is with Naruto and Bleach fans using this argument? I mean even the most hardcore Naruto or Bleach hater wouldn't come in here and go "lulz Naruto/Bleach is for kids."


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 1, 2008)

one thing thats better about one piece is that its all planned out. kishimoto seems to be struggling to finish naruto up and keeps up with inadequate chapters whilst each chapter of one piece reveals new information that is extremely important to the story. and EVERYTHING is used in one piece. even characters that were created in like chapter 19 ( silvers rayleigh) have made a comeback.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 1, 2008)

How many times will the same thread be posted? No one cares about this petty shit.


----------



## Juubi (Jun 1, 2008)

One Piece is HIGHLY overrated. Naruto is a meh series, and bleach is a bit less, so those definitions are somewhat accurate.

One Piece, however, isn't that great at all. It's not a terrible series, it's just...mediocre


----------



## Arcanis (Jun 1, 2008)

I wonder how many people convince themselves that Bleach and Naruto are bad just because everyone else they deem "cool" and "smart" is doing it... 

"Oh hey look at those guys, they're ne plus ultra, have 5000+ posts and they're bashing Naruto!! That MUST mean it's bad right?? Guess I shouldn't like it so much...."

/facepalm


----------



## sanji's left eye (Jun 1, 2008)

one piece is definitely better but im getting annoyed of this same thread


----------



## MdB (Jun 1, 2008)

I like it how your post is basically a retarded appeal to motive fallacy.


----------



## F0rTh3W1n (Jun 1, 2008)

When watching or reading One Piece and Bleach, they never irritate me like the way Naruto does. Its just frustrating watching the main character getting his ass handed to him all the time. Its ok if Kishi wanted to keep making Naruto an underdog, but sometimes it just feels like he's spitting on him.

Oh ye and I refer to part 2 Naruto as shit, Part 1 was epic.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 1, 2008)

Juubi said:


> One Piece is HIGHLY overrated. Naruto is a meh series, and bleach is a bit less, so those definitions are somewhat accurate.
> 
> One Piece, however, isn't that great at all. It's not a terrible series, it's just...mediocre



One piece isn't an astounding masterpiece, but it's at least above 
average and definitely better than Naruto and Bleach.


----------



## Protect_The_Butter (Jun 1, 2008)

Bleach and Naruto have dead weights around their necks called Orihime and Sasuke that have slowly been choking the life out of the series.


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2008)

Protect_The_Butter said:


> Bleach and Naruto have dead weights around their necks called Orihime and Sasuke that have slowly been choking the life out of the series.



No because you also have Uliqbalbalbalbalbalba, Grimmjow and Ichigo's shitty battle, the removal of an awesome as hell Arrancar named Dorodonii not too mention Naruto suffers with the main character himself sucking in Part II and entirely absent from involvement with the main story/plot line in the last three or so volumes.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 1, 2008)

Juubi said:


> One Piece is HIGHLY overrated. Naruto is a meh series, and bleach is a bit less, so those definitions are somewhat accurate.
> 
> One Piece, however, isn't that great at all. It's not a terrible series, it's just...mediocre



One Piece more overrated than Naruto and Bleach?

Juubi how could you?!


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2008)

If anything, Naruto and Bleach are far more over-rated and over-inflated then One Piece. I am not even joking or kidding here.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 1, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> If anything, Naruto and Bleach are far more over-rated and over-inflated then One Piece. I am not even joking or kidding here.



I agree with that. Especially when it comes to Naruto. Naruto is pretty much as overrated as FF7 is. The fanbases are almost identical as well. With Bleach  it's like either you think it's okay or you don't really care. From what I've seen Bleach is far more ignored. With Naruto it's either you love it to the point of tardism or you hate it to the point of haterdom. I haven't exactly seen a middle ground.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 1, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I agree with that. Especially when it comes to Naruto. Naruto is pretty much as overrated as FF7 is. The fanbases are almost identical as well. With Bleach  it's like either you think it's okay or you don't really care. From what I've seen Bleach is far more ignored. With Naruto it's either you love it to the point of tardism or you hate it to the point of haterdom. I haven't exactly seen a middle ground.



nah..I'm kinda middle...But the biggest hating comes forth from the anime.

I can bring it up to read the manga every week...but I can't watch the anime anymore, totally not...I don't even recognized Sakura's voice in last episode (watch a little part because their was some kind of cool filler-fighting scene I read somewhere on the board. Which was not the case)

I just stopped watching around end of gaara rescue arc.

I don't know what it is...I somewhat deep down still like Naruto somewhat but mainly only because of part 1.
 I just read it to know how it all ends up, but lately it all resolves about the Uchiha, and not a little bit...but EVERYTHING.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 1, 2008)

Zorokiller said:


> nah..I'm kinda middle...But the biggest hating comes forth from the anime.
> 
> I can bring it up to read the manga every week...but I can't watch the anime anymore, totally not...I don't even recognized Sakura's voice in last episode (watch a little part because their was some kind of cool filler-fighting scene I read somewhere on the board. Which was not the case)
> 
> ...



Well the reason I hate Naruto is because of the obvious bad writing and the blatant misuse of characters that aren't named Uchiha. Why would I hate on it because it's popular? That doesn't make fucking sense.

I can understand why anime watchers may hate it too but since I dropped the anime back during filler hell I have no reason to hate it cause of the anime. Especially since part 2 is the cause of all my hatred and BROOKLYN RAGE!


----------



## The Doctor (Jun 1, 2008)

Zorokiller said:


> I just read it to know how it all ends up, but lately it all resolves about the Uchiha, and not a little bit...but EVERYTHING.


It's strange... for me, the whole manga was made for Sasuke, with Naruto in the center from times to times. The beggining was ok, with Naruto and Sasuke in the center. But after the first Sasuke rescue arc, Sasuke simply became the center of everyone attention, with few exceptions. Naruto wants to "save" Sasuke more than he wants to become a hokage. Sasuke is the center of this story. Anyway, that is the impression that I have about the whole manga.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 1, 2008)

^Agree (only to stay little on-topic)

off-topic

that carameldansen is totally epic! it even had the Danjo-move in it!
superb!


----------



## p-lou (Jun 1, 2008)

lol @ the "People only bash Naruto and Bleach because they are popular and see people with high post counts and rep bash it" argument.  That is quite honestly the biggest load of bull shit I've seen in a long time.  As people pointed out, Naruto and Bleach are bashed for bad storytelling, boring characters, numerous plot holes, and for wasting a lot of potential.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jun 1, 2008)

p-lou said:


> lol @ the "People only bash Naruto and Bleach because they are popular and see people with high post counts and rep bash it" argument.  That is quite honestly the biggest load of bull shit I've seen in a long time.  As people pointed out, Naruto and Bleach are bashed for bad storytelling, boring characters, numerous plot holes, and for wasting a lot of potential.



I never understood this bullshit argument either. It is fucking obvious that people were fans of the series at one point so why all the criticism and backlash?

Because they stopped doing the things that made them great as people pointed out and suffer from terrible things like Kenpachi winning with TWO HANDS and Naruto somehow becoming so obsessed about one person that everything else that mattered doesn't seem as important anymore.

We aren't saying this shit to make us feel better. Its the fucking truth.


----------



## Heiji-sama (Jun 1, 2008)

Turrin said:


> The first Half of One Piece was not very good in my opinion though it still had an okay storyline and a couple of amazing battles. What i consider the first part is from chapter 1to the end of the battle with Crocodile...also individual chapters are some-what lacking in this part. I would say part 1 of naruto is better then part 1 One Piece by quite a deal and seemingly had a whole lot more potential then One Piece. However as both Manga's shifted between the first and second half...Kishimoto systimatically killed alot of the potential of his manga and hurt it with insane story plots and lack of character development (other then Sasuke's recent development). Oda on the other hand was able to increase the potential of the manga by a huge amount and was able to make the manga a little less kiddy and by far more amazing.
> 
> The settings of OP also far exceeded Kishi's rather linear forest, city, hideout settings. I mean going from sky island, to an old west town, to the insane ships of the different pirates, all the way to water Seven and finally on to recent islands. Each setting has realistic effects on the battles and makes the manga seem by far better planned out. Oda has also been able to expand the rather linear pirate vs pirate vs marine...to a more complex plot invovling the different pirates working for and against the world goverment. Also each character in OP was given alot of character development and Oda is capable of juggling 8 crew members at once among a host of many many villains. Really Oda has done an excellent job at maturing the manga and making it better overtime
> 
> ...



I am agree with you


----------



## armorknight (Jun 1, 2008)

Turrin said:


> The first Half of One Piece was not very good in my opinion though it still had an okay storyline and a couple of amazing battles. What i consider the first part is from chapter 1to the end of the battle with Crocodile...also individual chapters are some-what lacking in this part. I would say part 1 of naruto is better then part 1 One Piece by quite a deal and seemingly had a whole lot more potential then One Piece. However as both Manga's shifted between the first and second half...Kishimoto systimatically killed alot of the potential of his manga and hurt it with insane story plots and lack of character development (other then Sasuke's recent development). Oda on the other hand was able to increase the potential of the manga by a huge amount and was able to make the manga a little less kiddy and by far more amazing.
> 
> The settings of OP also far exceeded Kishi's rather linear forest, city, hideout settings. I mean going from sky island, to an old west town, to the insane ships of the different pirates, all the way to water Seven and finally on to recent islands. Each setting has realistic effects on the battles and makes the manga seem by far better planned out. Oda has also been able to expand the rather linear pirate vs pirate vs marine...to a more complex plot invovling the different pirates working for and against the world goverment. Also each character in OP was given alot of character development and Oda is capable of juggling 8 crew members at once among a host of many many villains. Really Oda has done an excellent job at maturing the manga and making it better overtime
> 
> ...



I agree with you about part I of Naruto being good. However, I think that
OP beats Naruto starting at the Baroque Works saga. Oda just makes much
better use of his characters, plot, and settings from then on.
Although, the battles in part I of Naruto and OP were equally amazing.
It just depends if you prefer brutality (One Piece) to more intellect-
oriented battles (Naruto). Bleach has always been last among
the 3 though.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 1, 2008)

Jetstorm said:


> I never understood this bullshit argument either. It is fucking obvious that people were fans of the series at one point so why all the criticism and backlash?
> 
> Because they stopped doing the things that made them great as people pointed out and suffer from terrible things like Kenpachi winning with TWO HANDS and Naruto somehow becoming so obsessed about one person that everything else that mattered doesn't seem as important anymore.
> 
> We aren't saying this shit to make us feel better. Its the fucking truth.



QFT.  I can't explain how cool it'd be if both those manga returned to the way their very first arcs were.  They were fun then and I miss it.  But after such a long time, I have no reason to expect that type of quality again.

Off topic: Your sig = 

@TB: Where'd you find that sig?


----------



## The Doctor (Jun 1, 2008)

p-lou said:


> QFT.  I can't explain how cool it'd be if both those manga returned to the way their very first arcs were.  They were fun then and I miss it.  But after such a long time, I have no reason to expect that type of quality again.


Hope is that last one to die 


p-lou said:


> @TB: Where'd you find that sig?


I made it myself.. why do you ask?!?!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 1, 2008)

Jetstorm said:


> I never understood this bullshit argument either. It is fucking obvious that people were fans of the series at one point so why all the criticism and backlash?
> 
> Because they stopped doing the things that made them great as people pointed out and suffer from terrible things like Kenpachi winning with TWO HANDS and Naruto somehow becoming so obsessed about one person that everything else that mattered doesn't seem as important anymore.
> 
> We aren't saying this shit to make us feel better. Its the fucking truth.



Ahaha, I remember feeling a strong sense of anticipation of finding out his zanpakatou's name when Kenpachi revealed he hadn't been going 100% against Nnoitora. Needless to say I was disappointed. That was a near perfect opportunity to reveal it, and it was passed up. 

Hopefully, Naruto's growing up involves him getting over the obsession with Sasuke.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 1, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> Hope is that last one to die



And the sad thing is it took me all the way until the penis arc to realize the crap Naruto had become and that Bleach's style of substance kept me entertained through part of the Arrancar arc.  I should have known better. 



> I made it myself.. why do you ask?!?!



I've never seen it before and it is just epic.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 1, 2008)

Arcanis said:


> I wonder how many people convince themselves that Bleach and Naruto are bad just because everyone else they deem "cool" and "smart" is doing it...



It actually didn't take anyone convincing me. As soon as I started watching Cowboy Beebop and reading Full Metal Alchemist and One Piece, I realized just how shitty Bleach was.



Arcanis said:


> "Oh hey look at those guys, they're ne plus ultra, have 5000+ posts and they're bashing Naruto!! That MUST mean it's bad right?? Guess I shouldn't like it so much...."



Look at me, I can't come up with a good rebuttal to your arguments, so now I'm going to ignore you completely and convince myself you're all imbeciles who can't think for themselves!!! 

Seriously, if that's the kind of shit you can come up with...



Arcanis said:


> /facepalm



 It's definitely a check, but is it a mate? I'll know when you write your comeback.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 2, 2008)

Naruto was the first manga I ever read and Bleach was the second. Both of them were my favorite mangas that I read every week. I watched the anime subbed online as well. I HATED OP because I only ever saw the horrendous 4KIDS dub so I just assumed the manga was just as retarded. Then I came to this board from word of mouth in search of the newest spoilers of both of them and I rather liked the site. So I lurked around and and started hearing people talking about OP like it was good. OP = good? "Are they mad?" I thought. But after hearing several people talking about it I decided to buckled down and read the first couple of chapters. Preparing myself for the worst, I was shocked that it was... well, *good*. VERY good. It was then that I realized Bleach and Naruto just couldn't compare in the least. It was a sobering experience. Then as I read more and more manga (20th Century Boys, Berserk, Monster, Fullmetal Alchemist, etc) and watched more and more anime (Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Ghost in the Shell, etc) I realized that Bleach (Freudian note: when I first typed Bleach, it came out Blech) and Naruto were well not good at all. Hell they were terrible.

So... yeah.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 2, 2008)

Naruto is currently crap, but id say Bleach is redeeming itsefl out of the crap hole

OP is good, but im not enjoying the current arc all to much


----------



## The Doctor (Jun 2, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Naruto was the first manga I ever read and Bleach was the second. Both of them were my favorite mangas that I read every week. I watched the anime subbed online as well. I HATED OP because I only ever saw the horrendous 4KIDS dub so I just assumed the manga was just as retarded. Then I came to this board from word of mouth in search of the newest spoilers of both of them and I rather liked the site. So I lurked around and and started hearing people talking about OP like it was good. OP = good? "Are they mad?" I thought. But after hearing several people talking about it I decided to buckled down and read the first couple of chapters. Preparing myself for the worst, I was shocked that it was... well, *good*. VERY good. It was then that I realized Bleach and Naruto just couldn't compare in the least. It was a sobering experience. Then as I read more and more manga (20th Century Boys, Berserk, Monster, Fullmetal Alchemist, etc) and watched more and more anime (Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Ghost in the Shell, etc) I realized that Bleach (Freudian note: when I first typed Bleach, it came out Blech) and Naruto were well not good at all. Hell they were terrible.
> 
> So... yeah.


 You found the truth in your heart, man! 

The first anime that I ever watched was Blood +. Then, I watched Berserk, Grave of the Fireflies(movie), Elfen Lied and Claymore. I was like  
Then I watched OP. It was fun as hell!!!! 

Because of Berserk, OP and Claymore, I decided to start reading manga. And because of that I also started to read Naruto, Bleach, etc... you know they were all at the same site 

So.. I watch/read Grave of Fireflies, Berserk, EL and then, suddenly I have in my hands mangas like Naruto and Bleach..

I made the other away around. Naruto and Bleach were one of my last manga to read.. maybe it might be because of this that I can't understand ppl saying that "Naruto is a masterpiece"....


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 2, 2008)

Jetstorm said:


> I never understood this bullshit argument either. It is fucking obvious that people were fans of the series at one point so why all the criticism and backlash?
> 
> Because they stopped doing the things that made them great as people pointed out and suffer from terrible things like Kenpachi winning with TWO HANDS and Naruto somehow becoming so obsessed about one person that everything else that mattered doesn't seem as important anymore.
> 
> We aren't saying this shit to make us feel better. Its the fucking truth.



Dude Kenpachi winning with TWO HANDS was epic. It was like we were all expecting his bankai and suddenly he's all like "naw man IMMA HOLD MAH SWORD WITH BOTH HANDS!" and then he pwned shit.


----------



## Lusankya (Jun 2, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> Naruto is currently crap, but id say Bleach is redeeming itsefl out of the crap hole
> 
> OP is good, but *im not enjoying the current arc all to much*



Wow, thats a surprise. This current arc has been incredible so far.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 2, 2008)

armorknight said:


> I agree with you about part I of Naruto being good. However, I think that
> OP beats Naruto starting at the Baroque Works saga. Oda just makes much
> better use of his characters, plot, and settings from then on.
> Although, the battles in part I of Naruto and OP were equally amazing.
> ...



Because running at your opponent while spamming the same attacks is truly intellect oriented fighting right?


----------



## AbnormallyNormal (Jun 2, 2008)

yeah naruto's main problem is that it focusss way too much on konoha and uchihas

bleach's problem is that perhaps there isnt enough content or plot advancement per chapter, it seems like the panel sizes in bleach are huger than OP or naruto, and there are far fewer text bubbles and words on average. i think bleach > naruto overall though


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 2, 2008)

I can't stand Luffy as the main character and hope he gets killed in each fight. 
The series would be better if Sogeking was the lead.----------


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 2, 2008)

> Wow, thats a surprise. This current arc has been incredible so far.



Lets not go too far now, the current arc up to now has been decent, much improved from the fail that was TB.

As for Naruto, personally Kishi wasted too much time getting to the current story. The Sasuke retrieval arc was a waste and the whole Hidan/Kakuzu stuff should have been integrated in to the Gaara arc. As for Bleach, HM was fail but atleast Mayuri v Szayel was entertaining.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 2, 2008)

No Shabondy is entirely awesome, and TB was entirely servicable.

Anyone who says different is  pansy Enies Lobby jump on who skimmed the first 400 chapters.

Haha, yes owned again, I know.

I'll collect the bill at the front desk, take your time.

Good day sir.

*flies off*


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 2, 2008)

> Anyone who says different is pansy Enies Lobby jump on who skimmed the first 400 chapters.



Nah read all 400 chapters, even though Skypiea was excruciating at times. As for Shabondy, its been good up till now but not really incredible, I assume it may possibly become great now that the rookies are here.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 2, 2008)

What do you mean "now that the rookies are here", they've been here for over half of the Shabondy chapters so far.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 2, 2008)

Yeah but now we'll get to see them in action.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 2, 2008)

I'll never understand the TB hate.  It was a fun arc that didn't last too long and had a great ending.  I'm starting to think that the people who hate TB are the same people who think EL was the best arc in the manga.


----------



## Fang (Jun 2, 2008)

I just didn't like Perona and Abasalom from TB.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 2, 2008)

Abasalom sucked ass.  Perona wasn't great either, but her getting owned by Kuma was awesome.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 2, 2008)




----------



## Aldric (Jun 2, 2008)

p-lou said:


> Quoted for fucking truth.  An author that recognizes what his work is being read for is a great thing.  Oda does a great job at realizing people read OP because it's fun and has a highly romanticized view of the world, not because it's going to break new literary boundaries.
> 
> Kishi, on the other hand, is bringing an approach to Naruto that is completely unfitting.  Instead of keeping the light hearted fun of a story about a little loudmouth arrogant kid he's trying to make it serious business by attempting a piss poor imitation of Berserk.



That's so true.

And what is even more hilarious is you have all these people attempting to take the moral highground with contemptuous garbage like WELL ENJOY YOUR LITTLE PIRATE ADVENTURES FOR KIDS WHILE I INDULGE MYSELF WITH TRUE LITERARY MASTERPIECE 

I won't cite any names


----------



## p-lou (Jun 2, 2008)

Aldric said:


> That's so true.
> 
> And what is even more hilarious is you have all these people attempting to take the moral highground with contemptuous garbage like WELL ENJOY YOUR LITTLE PIRATE ADVENTURES FOR KIDS WHILE I INDULGE MYSELF WITH TRUE LITERARY MASTERPIECE



If people are looking for literary masterpieces, shounen manga isn't the best place to start.  That's like reading Goosebumps books and trying pass them off as great novels.  Well, at least with Naruto it is.



> I won't cite any names



Come on.  You know you want to. 

@Zephos:  There aren't enough words to describe how awesome that pic is.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 2, 2008)

I liked TB myself especially since it introduced Brooke and well I'll always see Moria as being a great villain.

Why people hate on Moria cause he's not bishie and shit I'll never know.


----------



## MdB (Jun 2, 2008)

p-lou said:


> lol @ the "People only bash Naruto and Bleach because they are popular and see people with high post counts and rep bash it" argument.  That is quite honestly the biggest load of bull shit I've seen in a long time.  As people pointed out, Naruto and Bleach are bashed for bad storytelling, boring characters, numerous plot holes, and for wasting a lot of potential.



Like I said, it's a retarded appeal to motive fallacy.

And TB was awesome, 'cause it was entertaining. Sure it had some bad parts in it like FUCKING SANJI (VS ABSOLOM), PERONA and Moria's defeat, but the rest was gold.


----------



## The Doctor (Jun 2, 2008)

Hey, hey TB was awesome 
I lol so much. It was funny, even though those Perona's dolls were some kind of annoying. Absalom Vs Sanji was simply hilarious.

I DO think that EL was the best arc but TB was also great. To be hnest, I like all OPs arc...


----------



## p-lou (Jun 2, 2008)

I never meant to imply that EL was bad, in fact it, including W7 it was very good through the Ohara flashbacks, after that it was just a little meh.

It just doesn't compare to Alabasta.


----------



## Codde (Jun 2, 2008)

I agree with that. I felt one of the things that distinguishes Alabasta from Water 7/Eneis Lobby was much better fights (for Luffy, Sanji, and Zoro at least) that weren't as fragmented along with a great conclusion.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 2, 2008)

So do people hate Perona cause of AWB or something? Cause I really don't get where all the perona hate comes from otherwise.



Teresa Brasil said:


> Hey, hey TB was awesome
> I lol so much. It was funny, even though those Perona's dolls were some kind of annoying. Absalom Vs Sanji was simply hilarious.
> 
> I DO think that EL was the best arc but TB was also great. To be hnest, I like all OPs arc...



I personally love all the arcs. I don't think there is a best arc. They all have the same amount of great storytelling and quality to me.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 2, 2008)

Lusankya said:


> Wow, thats a surprise. This current arc has been incredible so far.


Yeah its wierd. I mean, there are parts of it that are cool(like the pirate rookies and Rogers First mate) but this whole mermaid capture, carnival thing just isnt interesting me really.


----------



## Fang (Jun 2, 2008)

Ryuuma's fight with Zoro > anything else in Thriller Bark.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 2, 2008)

Ryuuma's fight was awesome

You cant deny the awesomeness of this page though


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 2, 2008)

luffy an idiot...


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 2, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> luffy an idiot...


Thank you for your insightful comment. This will definitely add depth to the discussion


----------



## neostar8710 (Jun 2, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Thank you for your insightful comment. This will definitely add depth to the discussion



LOLLL...best response ever


----------



## Sylar (Jun 2, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> luffy an idiot...



NO U. ......


----------



## p-lou (Jun 2, 2008)

Sylar said:


> NO U. ......



It's not his fault.  He hasn't redden lately.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 2, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> Lets not go too far now, the current arc up to now has been decent, much improved from the fail that was TB.



How did TB fail? Anyway, I personally think this arc is awesome. It introduces several new and important characters, reintoduces several characters, is connected quite a bit to the continuing story, and has a very beautiful locale. 

As for Naruto, personally Kishi wasted too much time getting to the current story. The Sasuke retrieval arc was a waste and the whole Hidan/Kakuzu stuff should have been integrated in to the Gaara arc.[/quote]

I agree. However, I think that Kishi's main problem is... Sasuke!!! Gee, that was hard to guess. You see, Sasuke is a monster Gary Stu who eats up thousands of pages with his emoness and perfectness. Seriously, just kill him off Kishi. You had no problem doing that to Oro.



CrimemasterGogo said:


> As for Bleach, HM was fail but atleast Mayuri v Szayel was entertaining.



No, that was fail too, since Mayuri didn't torture that stupid pink-haired guy enough. Mayuri is awesome, but he was not cruel enough to Szayel. After all, this was the guy who had a fight that lasted for ten issues (Not including breaks). Anyway, I don't see how the ending to a fight (Remember, the fight lasted a lot longer than just Mayuri and Szayel) justifies all the monotony of the entire boring Hueco Mundo arc.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 2, 2008)

The one redeeming point of HM was Stark's introduction


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 3, 2008)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> Naruto, has a much more interesting plot-line and *great set of characters* that are all around supported. You don't have to like the animation nor do you have to like the voice-actors or the subbed versions, but I think in terms of story lines and aspects of realism, Naruto is in the lead by far, when compared w/Bleach & OP.
> 
> Now that's not taking away from the originality and storyline of One Piece but Naruto seems more down to earth than OP. OP has a great set of characters but one thing that made me mad was that when it's time to go came, the author continued based on hype. Or at least that's the short version I got from ANN.



I'm sorry, but whut?

*Which must explain the last several months of Uchihafapping, right? Or how about the wonderful showings of Teams 8 and 10? At least Hinata's Byakugan goes for 10 miles.
*


----------



## Fang (Jun 3, 2008)

Actually Naruto himself has been side-lined from the plot since the summer of 2007. So its more then a few months that the main character of the manga hasnt' done anything revelant. At least Ichigo did some stuff in Bleach, despite however much of a fail ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) he is in general.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 3, 2008)

Is there any other shonen where the main character got shafted for so long? I can't think of any.

And the funniest thing is it's not going to end anytime soon since "Naruto has to wait" 

Seriously how are you supposed to tell a good story when your hero has nothing heroic whatsoever about him?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 3, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Is there any other shonen where the main character got shafted for so long? I can't think of any.
> 
> And the funniest thing is it's not going to end anytime soon since "Naruto has to wait"
> 
> Seriously how are you supposed to tell a good story when your hero has nothing heroic whatsoever about him?



Apparently, it's all suppose to be related to his "underdog" status...


----------



## Sylar (Jun 3, 2008)

How is somebody who is the son of one of the most hyped individuals in the manga and has an uberpowerful demon sealed within him that let's him use its power an underdog? God Kishi is clueless.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 3, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Apparently, it's all suppose to be related to his "underdog" status...



I more or less completely destroyed that NARUTO IS TEH UNDERDOG argument in a single post in the Library a few months ago.

Not only isn't he an underdog, but he's the complete opposite of an underdog.

A loser or a failure maybe, but an underdog he is not.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 3, 2008)

> Naruto, has a much more interesting plot-line and great set of characters that are all around supported. You don't have to like the animation nor do you have to like the voice-actors or the subbed versions, but I think in terms of story lines and aspects of realism, Naruto is in the lead by far, when compared w/Bleach & OP.
> 
> Now that's not taking away from the originality and storyline of One Piece but Naruto seems more down to earth than OP. OP has a great set of characters but one thing that made me mad was that when it's time to go came, the author continued based on hype. Or at least that's the short version I got from ANN.



What? Just what? I would think it'd be hard for anyone to try and argue that Naruto's plot is more interesting or whatever with a straight face. Especially when comparing Naruto's plot to One Piece's.


----------



## the del operator (Jun 3, 2008)

my only problem with one piece is that there's never that sense of urgency.  you always know that in the end luffy will do something crazy and then the straw hats will be fine.  this is not a knock on the plot, which i think is great, but more so a criticism of the mechanism that oda uses to advance the polot. naruto one could argue suffers from the same type of problems, but not to the same degree....

in the end their all shounen mags so i don't even know why we should be complaining/ranking about them....they're like candy, don't worry too much about the ingredients, just enjoy their little sweetness.

ed: the recent stuff with Ace has changed this a bit.


----------



## Yoburi (Jun 3, 2008)

One Piece is very good and Bleach cant even hope to be compared after so much shit and i lost any hope for Naruto i just wnt him to die and Sasuke or Madara became the main character.


----------



## Batman (Jun 3, 2008)

Stark vs. Law, who's winning?


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 3, 2008)

Law easily


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 3, 2008)

Sylar said:


> How is somebody who is the son of one of the most hyped individuals in the manga and has an uberpowerful demon sealed within him that let's him use its power an underdog? God Kishi is clueless.



I think Jiraiya's a dumbass of a teacher.

"OH, WHY DON'T I POKE NARUTO'S SEAL?"
3 Hours later:
"WHOOPS, I ALMOST KILLED MYSELF."


----------



## Tash (Jun 3, 2008)

X Drake wins                       .


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 3, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Actually Naruto himself has been side-lined from the plot since the summer of 2007. So its more then a few months that the main character of the manga hasn't' done anything relevant. At least Ichigo did some stuff in Bleach, despite however much of a fail ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) he is in general.



I don't hate Naruto, I'm just *VERY* disappointed with the direction.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 3, 2008)

the del operator said:


> my only problem with one piece is that there's never that sense of urgency.



Alabasta, Skypiea, Eines Lobby, and Thriller Bark would like to have a word with you


----------



## Gary (Jun 3, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Actually Naruto himself has been side-lined from the plot since the summer of 2007. So its more then a few months that the main character of the manga hasnt' done anything revelant. At least Ichigo did some stuff in Bleach, despite however much of a fail ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) he is in general.



this si so true but ichigo fails so hard


----------



## the del operator (Jun 4, 2008)

In Alabasta, Skypiea, and Thriller Bark the formula is almost the exact same and you know damn well how it's going to end out. when reading it I never had any "oh shit, this looks really bad and i can't wait how it's going to be resolved. you were never worried for the chars". alabasta had pell...and oda then kinda copped out.

granted, enies lobbies was different and I really really enjoyed that arc. got me totally hooked.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

the del operator said:


> In Alabasta, Skypiea, and Thriller Bark the formula is almost the exact same and you know damn well how it's going to end out. when reading it I never had any "oh shit, this looks really bad and i can't wait how it's going to be resolved. you were never worried for the chars". alabasta had pell...and oda then kinda copped out.
> 
> granted, enies lobbies was different and I really really enjoyed that arc. got me totally hooked.



The sense of urgency was still there. How can you not say Alabasta had a sense of urgency with a fucking war starting, Skypiea didn't have a sense of urgency with Eneru wanting to KILL everyone with a fucking giant island busting thunderball, and how could you say Thriller Bark didn't have a sense of urgency considering over half of the crew could have died at sunrise?

I felt more urgency in One Piece than I ever felt in Naruto or Bleach for that matter. If you want to say that One Piece has a predictable formula well guess what Naruto and Bleach have one too, but One Piece pulls it off better than those two ever could.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 4, 2008)

Aethos said:


> The sense of urgency was still there. How can you not say Alabasta had a sense of urgency with a fucking war starting, Skypiea didn't have a sense of urgency with Eneru wanting to KILL everyone with a fucking giant island busting thunderball, and how could you say Thriller Bark didn't have a sense of urgency considering over half of the crew could have died at sunrise?
> 
> I felt more urgency in One Piece than I ever felt in Naruto or Bleach for that matter. If you want to say that One Piece has a predictable formula well guess what Naruto and Bleach have one too, but One Piece pulls it off better than those two ever could.



quoted for the truth.

What's the urgency in Naruto, really? name one thing.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 4, 2008)

Naruto has the best storyline and characters ever[sauce, *fap fap fap]. Its on a completely differnt level to predictable and generic manga like One piece, bleach and Hunter x hunter.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 4, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Naruto has the best storyline and characters ever[sauce, *fap fap fap]. Its on a completely differnt level to predictable and generic manga like One piece, bleach and Hunter x hunter.



hahahahahahahahahahahaha

You're joking right?


Also what I don't get is why do people say that Naruto has a sense of urgency?  Have you people read anything else?  I mean really, read more manga and books(and no not just One Piece) and tell me if this series has any real sense of urgency.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 4, 2008)

Elijah Snow said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahaha
> 
> You're joking right?
> 
> ...



Don't bother with that guy...it'll get you nowhere. 

Eh, well in Naruto the Akatsuki did state a deadline at which they needed the biju, but that seemed to be dropped...It was six months after the timeskip in which Oro could take Sasuke's body, the only real sense of urgency, but that was dropped as well. Kishi seems to have dropped alot of things in Part II.


----------



## YoYo (Jun 4, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Naruto has the best storyline and characters ever[sauce, *fap fap fap]. Its on a completely differnt level to predictable and generic manga like One piece, bleach and Hunter x hunter.



Ok i'm going go with; if you aren't purposesly trolling, you subconciously are.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 4, 2008)

You know something? Compared to Bleach and OP, Naruto (part II at least) has some really fucked up morals.


----------



## YoYo (Jun 4, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You know something? Compared to Bleach and OP, Naruto (part II at least) has some really fucked up morals.



The justice and dream moral system in OP can be just as bad.

And bleach...well there are no morals, levels, or philosophical/political aspects to it...atall.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 4, 2008)

> Naruto has the best storyline and characters ever[sauce, *fap fap fap]. Its on a completely differnt level to predictable and generic manga like One piece, bleach and *Hunter x hunter*.



I try to be open minded with Narutards but my god your fail, get banned troll.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Naruto has the best storyline and characters ever[sauce, *fap fap fap]. Its on a completely differnt level to predictable and generic manga like One piece, bleach and Hunter x hunter.



That made me laugh so hard I'm gonna rep you for that.

I mean that has to be a joke post... right?


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

Elijah Snow said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahaha
> 
> You're joking right?
> 
> ...



Yeah I mean how is wandering around forests killing random akatsuki members a sense of urgency anyways?


----------



## sko99 (Jun 4, 2008)

i find it really...er, weird that they some people find OP predictable, whereas naruto isnt. 

guess who tobi is?!! *triple gasp* 

naruto has a good storyline, but bleach and OP are equally as good. i dont have one i like more out of them.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 4, 2008)

sko99 said:


> i find it really...er, weird that they some people find OP predictable, whereas naruto isnt.
> 
> guess who tobi is?!! *triple gasp*
> 
> naruto has a good storyline, but bleach and OP are equally as good. i dont have one i like more out of them.



Alot had already assumed Madara had something to do with Akatsuki since he was mentioned by Kyubi.


----------



## sko99 (Jun 4, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Alot had already assumed Madara had something to do with Akatsuki since he was mentioned by Kyubi.



*sigh*
i was being sarcastic btw...

what im trying to say this is naruto _is_ predictable...
well, actually, most shounen mangas are similar. i say _most_.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 4, 2008)

LOL, the new Naruto spoiler made me laugh hard.

Naruto the crow eater is now canon.

God, I gotta start reading Naruto again. I can't miss out on these epic lulz. This series has been full of unintentional humor since the laugh during the Uchiha fight


----------



## Fleecy (Jun 4, 2008)

Well, this is what I believe.

*One Piece-*
*Story*
     Good: The objective is straightforward and there are not many dramatic twists that take the good away from it. Simplistic and easy to follow without getting a migraine.
     Bad: Not many twists. It's Goal --> Achievement. The mystery or intrigue is not really there for me.

*Characters*
     Good: Very colorful and epic cast. Each one of them is enjoyable and has traits that make them iconic. I love pretty much all of them.
     Bad: Rather shallow. Only a select few are really that complex, and even those few are not that deep at all. They are simplistic, and while they are enjoyable, they lack in the department of substance and true depth.

*Art*
     Good: Like, the cast, extremely colorful and vivid. An original style that makes the experience fun.
     Bad: Nearly all of the characters are horrendously ugly except for Luffy, Zoro, and Nami (I don't see how Robin can be considered good looking at all, to be honest). The body proportions, though meant to be, are ridiculous and unappealing to me. I find it hard to take any characters seriously (but again, Oda intends this). Lack of detail. This style is simply not the kind I like; much too goofy and not pleasing in aesthetics.


*Naruto-*
*Story*
     Good: Much more intricate than either One Piece or Bleach. The plot is clearly the deepest and most interesting/engaging out of the three. It is more focused on the true core and origin of things rather than following the main character completely like a dog on a leash.
     Bad: Too many twists. Some of the stuff is expected, but other things are just "wtf did you pull out of your butt Kishi?" Also, the pacing is very slow and annoying.

*Characters*
     Good: Complexity is a strong point here. All of the characters have interesting pasts that may tug on the heartstrings. While the cast may not be as "epic" or amazingly known for a single characteristic, each character gets fleshed out development and a close inspection of several facets of their personalities. Their goals, morals, relationships, dramas, and selves all have more than one side, and the readers/watchers of Naruto can watch them grow with these components exposed.
     Bad: Severe lack of attention on other characters, even though they are secondary. Those secondary characters are placed in situations where they serve no purpose, as well.

*Art*
     Good: Great. I personally like the art in Naruto more than One Piece or Bleach, primarily because of the character designs. The outfits are unique and fit to their respective characters and reflect on their personalities. The body proportions are also, in my opinion, the closest resemblence to "real people" (barring maybe Tsunade) with a variety of sizes and figures. None of them were too thin or too fat unless they were intended to be. Case and point: most of the cast has been designed to have "average" bodies to further the distinction between skinny characters like Ino and chubby characters like Chouji. The detail is also there, and a lot of the characters are beautiful and very distinct.
     Bad: Aside from the anime's inconsistencies, I don't have many complaints, really.


*Bleach-*
*Story*
     Good: More interesting and knotted than One Piece, but to me the storyline is not that impressive. It's quite average and expected to me, though some of the plot threw me for a loop (i.e. Aizen's "death"). But in recent manga, the background info is particularly enlightening and more intriguing now.
     Bad: I never watched Bleach for its story because it was bland and boring. The concept of the Gotei 13 and such was interesting, but a lot of the material is blunt and simplistic, overshadowed by mainly action scenes.

*Characters*
     Good: Some are interesting and lovable. But I have more complaints than good things to say about them.
     Bad: I will say that the _only_ character I truly like from the main cast is Ishida. After him, there's Nel, Kira, Gin, Byakuya, Yumichika, and Mayuri. Compared to my favorites in Naruto and One Piece, this list is VERY short. While I like Naruto and Luffy, I despise Ichigo. While I like Sakura and Nami, I don't care much for Rukia or Orihime. I just don't find most of the cast to be enjoyable. It doesn't help that more characters keep on getting added on--characters I could care less about. They are more complex than OP characters, but only a select few are likable. Also... What appeared to be the main cast in the beginning has become nothing but fodder and background characters in comparison to shinigami (a.k.a. Ishida and Chad, which makes me annoyed).

*Art*
     Good: Good, fresh, and clean. The work is smooth-edged and normal, which is easy on the eyes. Good looking characters, too.
     Bad: The bodies are all pretty much the same. I find it weird that the guys have more varying figures (or maybe it's just because of their clothing), yet the girls almost have identical, ridiculous bodies. Yeah it's good for fanservice and stuff, but the only girls who don't have breasts bigger than their heads are Rukia and the little girls. The landscapes are also _very_ geometrical and straight (Soul Society, Hueco Mundo, Karakura Town), and not very detailed at all.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 4, 2008)

LOL @ Naruto having an interesting plot and good art.

The plot has so much random shit pulled out of nowhere, that I can't even believe it has a definite central plot anymore.

And the art since the timeskip has looked like a really bad coloring book with no shading or effects whatsoever. That with the mostly lame-ass, often recycled character designs (Sai and Karin are Sasuke clones, Minato would be near indistinguishable from Naruto at times were it not for the slightly longer hair and the fact that he doesn't have the fox whisker markings, and Suigetsu is a Zabuza clone with a different haircut) makes the art as lulz-worthy as the current story


----------



## sko99 (Jun 4, 2008)

Fleecy said:


> Well, this is what I believe.
> 
> *One Piece-*
> *Story*
> ...



did you just imply that naruto has the best art?

*does a triple take*  pfffffftt...

bleach art > naruto art = fact.
OP art...it maybe just me but i like oda's style. its great and original.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 4, 2008)

I won't challenge everything because most of it is opinionated stuff and I couldn't be arsed anyway, just want to adress something because this isn't the first time I see it and it baffles me



> One Piece-
> 
> Bad:
> 
> Lack of detail



What? Oda's art is by far the most detailed out of all the big 3 and that's really not debatable. His backgrounds are so much more complex than Kubo's (Thriller Bark is one of the greatest locale ever drawn in any shonen manga IMO). 

Kishi's backgrounds are sometimes comparable when he dares to draw something else than a forest and a mountain range (Konoha or the Rain village are quality), but it's mainly in character design that Oda has the other two beaten by a landslide. I honestly don't think Naruto or Bleach has anything approaching the level of details of these characters for ex:

4

The patterns on Kidd's throusers, the goggles, the cloak, it certainly needs more effort to draw weekly than the bland outfits most characters from the other two manga wear. So yeah Oda's art definitely doesn't lack details.


----------



## Legend of Zelda (Jun 4, 2008)

Fleecy said:


> *Characters*
> 
> Bad: I will say that the _only_ character I truly like from the main cast is Ishida. After him, there's Nel, Kira, Gin, Byakuya, Yumichika, and Mayuri. Compared to my favorites in Naruto and One Piece, this list is VERY short. While I like Naruto and Luffy, I despise Ichigo. While I like Sakura and Nami, I don't care much for Rukia or Orihime. I just don't find most of the cast to be enjoyable. It doesn't help that more characters keep on getting added on--characters I could care less about. They are more complex than OP characters, but only a select few are likable. Also... What appeared to be the main cast in the beginning has become nothing but fodder and background characters in comparison to shinigami (a.k.a. Ishida and Chad, which makes me annoyed).



I agree a lot with this. I've never really cared for Naruto or Luffy much but Ichigo's a piss poor main character. He seems more like a plot device at times than anything.

It's not just Ichigo either. The two supposed leading ladies are pretty bad too. Rukia is pretty boring around the time of her capture she just became pretty worthless to me. Orihime, I think, was Kubo's greatest failure as a writer. He's got other poor uninteresting characters but those three are causing the most damage to the story and since the flashback arc Bleach has gone up in quality a hell of a lot.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 4, 2008)

You missed the fact that Bleach has two of the most interesting villains, Mayuri and Szayel.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

Legend of Zelda said:


> I agree a lot with this. I've never really cared for Naruto or Luffy much but Ichigo's a piss poor main character. He seems more like a plot device at times than anything.
> 
> It's not just Ichigo either. The two supposed leading ladies are pretty bad too. Rukia is pretty boring around the time of her capture she just became pretty worthless to me. Orihime, I think, was Kubo's greatest failure as a writer. He's got other poor uninteresting characters but those three are causing the most damage to the story and since the flashback arc Bleach has gone up in quality a hell of a lot.



Not to mention Ishida is just Sasuke with glasses and mad sewing skillz.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 4, 2008)

This is not good art:


Chapter 177 Page 05

There's absolutely no fucking shading anywhere and the background is pitiful. 

You may not like Oda's style but saying Kishimoto or Kubo put more detail than Oda is ludicrous.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 4, 2008)

Naruto has decently drawn characters but other wise its awful, bad backgrounds and next to no shading or any detail.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

I think Oda's art style is amazing and incredibly detailed. You could pass Naruto off as a paint by number book and Bleach well... there's nothing to Bleach besides white backgrounds and the same fucking character design with a different hair style and some accessories attached to each characters identical shinigami outfit.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 4, 2008)

Oda's art is at times amazing, what impresses me the most is that its never dropped in quality and this is a weekly series were talking about.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 4, 2008)

Fleecy said:


> Well, this is what I believe.
> 
> *One Piece-*
> *Story*
> ...



Read One Piece. Look at the entire fucking Jaya, Arlong, and Skypeia arcs. Now tell me that there are no twists or turns from the main goal.



Fleecy said:


> *Characters*
> Good: Very colorful and epic cast. Each one of them is enjoyable and has traits that make them iconic. I love pretty much all of them.
> Bad: Rather shallow. Only a select few are really that complex, and even those few are not that deep at all. They are simplistic, and while they are enjoyable, they lack in the department of substance and true depth.



Read One Piece. Nami, Robin, Brooke, Usopp, Enel (Not so much complex as simply insane) and Franky are much more detailed than any of the main cast that Kubo does.



Fleecy said:


> *Art*
> Good: Like, the cast, extremely colorful and vivid. An original style that makes the experience fun.
> Bad: Nearly all of the characters are horrendously ugly except for Luffy, Zoro, and Nami (I don't see how Robin can be considered good looking at all, to be honest). The body proportions, though meant to be, are ridiculous and unappealing to me. I find it hard to take any characters seriously (but again, Oda intends this). Lack of detail. This style is simply not the kind I like; much too goofy and not pleasing in aesthetics.



Lack of detail... 

Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

Look at the amount of detail in each panel and compare it to the average amount of detail in a Naruto panel. Besides, I didn't even really search up those examples. Those are from random issues I selected, meaning that One Piece has a higher average detail rate.

Also, calling Mihawk horrendously ugly will earn you a punch to the face from the rabid fangirls.



Fleecy said:


> *Naruto-*
> *Story*
> Good: Much more intricate than either One Piece or Bleach. The plot is clearly the deepest and most interesting/engaging out of the three. It is more focused on the true core and origin of things rather than following the main character completely like a dog on a leash.





Fleecy said:


> Bad: Too many twists. Some of the stuff is expected, but other things are just "wtf did you pull out of your butt Kishi?" Also, the pacing is very slow and annoying.



No, you are dead wrong here. The issue is not that there are too many twists, the issue is that everything is ridiculously centered on a bland and boring Gary Stu that Plotjutsus his way through every encounter (Itachi fight, anyone?). 



Fleecy said:


> *Characters*
> Good: Complexity is a strong point here. All of the characters have interesting pasts that may tug on the heartstrings. While the cast may not be as "epic" or amazingly known for a single characteristic, each character gets fleshed out development and a close inspection of several facets of their personalities. Their goals, morals, relationships, dramas, and selves all have more than one side, and the readers/watchers of Naruto can watch them grow with these components exposed.



Excuse me, I have a question. Have you read Nami's flashback? No, I suppose you haven't. If you had, you would have found it more gut-wrenchingly sad than any Naruto flasback. Same with Robin's and Chopper's. However, these points are rendered null, since you either don't read One Piece or you have the emotional ability of a clam.



Fleecy said:


> Bad: Severe lack of attention on other characters, even though they are secondary. Those secondary characters are placed in situations where they serve no purpose, as well.



You hit the nail on the head here. However, the fact that the main character (The real main character, not Mr. Gary Stu Uchiha) sucks in combat makes it stand out even more. Plus, the main character has not done a single important thing for forty issues. 



Fleecy said:


> *Art*
> Good: Great. I personally like the art in Naruto more than One Piece or Bleach, primarily because of the character designs. The outfits are unique and fit to their respective characters and reflect on their personalities. The body proportions are also, in my opinion, the closest resemblence to "real people" (barring maybe Tsunade) with a variety of sizes and figures. None of them were too thin or too fat unless they were intended to be. Case and point: most of the cast has been designed to have "average" bodies to further the distinction between skinny characters like Ino and chubby characters like Chouji. The detail is also there, and a lot of the characters are beautiful and very distinct.



...Really, now this is just queer. You think that the characters have more unique outfits in Failruto?

Link removed 

You see that vicious badass dude with the sickles? He's wearing cowboy pants, a punk rock mask, and a polka dot shirt. Beat that. I know, you'll say that's just one example...

Link removed (SOGEKING MASK!)
Link removed (Parachute pants, a wierd ring thing, a skull cap, and a scepter. Plus, abnormally long ears!)



Fleecy said:


> Bad: Aside from the anime's inconsistencies, I don't have many complaints, really.



*Cough* Awful variety in clothing and backgrounds, along with a pathetic lack of shading. *Cough*



Fleecy said:


> *Bleach-*
> *Story*
> Good: More interesting and knotted than One Piece, but to me the storyline is not that impressive. It's quite average and expected to me, though some of the plot threw me for a loop (i.e. Aizen's "death"). But in recent manga, the background info is particularly enlightening and more intriguing now.



More interesting and knotted than One Piece? Bleach's plot makes Naruto look like a masterpiece. The entire Soul Society arc was made of pointless battles that were rendered useless by the twist at the end. The entire Hueco Mundo arc is a ripoff of Soul Society. 



Fleecy said:


> Bad: I never *watched* Bleach for its story because it was bland and boring. The concept of the Gotei 13 and such was interesting, but a lot of the material is blunt and simplistic, overshadowed by mainly action scenes.



Although I agree with you on the other points in this comment, this one word shows me what I expected. You watched the english One Piece, amirite?



Fleecy said:


> *Characters*
> Good: Some are interesting and lovable. But I have more complaints than good things to say about them.



Some? The only interesting and lovable characters are Mayuri and Kenpachi (Mayuri's so lovable he's replacing Barney in his own Tv show. Instead of teaching the kids concepts like a butterfly, he'll dissect them.).



Fleecy said:


> Bad: I will say that the _only_ character I truly like from the main cast is Ishida. After him, there's Nel, Kira, Gin, Byakuya, Yumichika, and Mayuri. Compared to my favorites in Naruto and One Piece, this list is VERY short. While I like Naruto and Luffy, I despise Ichigo. While I like Sakura and Nami, I don't care much for Rukia or Orihime. I just don't find most of the cast to be enjoyable. It doesn't help that more characters keep on getting added on--characters I could care less about. *They are more complex than OP characters*, but only a select few are likable. Also... What appeared to be the main cast in the beginning has become nothing but fodder and background characters in comparison to shinigami (a.k.a. Ishida and Chad, which makes me annoyed).



You like Ishida? Other than that, nice. Wait a second...

WHUMP!
WHUMP!
WHUMP!

That was me slamming my head into the table for reading the bolded comment. Now that my mind is clear from that filth, I must counter it.

Show me a single character in Bleach more detailed than Usopp and I'll give you a cookie.



Fleecy said:


> *Art*
> Good: Good, fresh, and clean. The work is smooth-edged and normal, which is easy on the eyes. Good looking characters, too.
> 
> Bad: The bodies are all pretty much the same. I find it weird that the guys have more varying figures (or maybe it's just because of their clothing), yet the girls almost have identical, ridiculous bodies. Yeah it's good for fanservice and stuff, but the only girls who don't have breasts bigger than their heads are Rukia and the little girls. The landscapes are also _very_ geometrical and straight (Soul Society, Hueco Mundo, Karakura Town), and not very detailed at all.



Gee, this makes sense. You don't praise One Piece for its ridiculously detailed backrounds, yet you diss Bleach for its godawful ones. 

Oh, and this moment in One Piece beats all arguments about shallow story in relationship with Bleach and Naruto.

Link removed
1
1

Arlong>Aizen, Itachi, Oro, and Pein.

CricketmasterGogo... Mayuri's interesting, Szayel's not. Why? Because he's Mayuri: Model Espada. Also, Szayel's battle was a disgrace. All that talking and fighting with the Renji/Ishida combo, and then Mayuri just comes in and talks him to death.


----------



## Fleecy (Jun 4, 2008)

*eye roll* I was voicing my opinion. Excuse me if I don't scrutinize panels of all three series for the sake of comparing their art. I simply know that I dislike almost all of the character designs in One Piece.

I watched/read Naruto and Bleach to their full and have seen/read half of One Piece. Obviously I don't state my opinions as fact; I was telling how I experienced it. You're acting like me thinking Naruto and Bleach is better than One Piece in some areas is a crime. It's my opinion and I could give a rat's ass if you think it's stupid or wrong.

But for the record, yes I do think Mihawk is ugly; to hell with his fangirls. Robin too; to hell with her fanboys. My character tastes also different from yours in that I'm not interested in Kenpachi at all and find Ishida more likable.

So just lay my thoughts to be left out there and not to be so hostile over, hm?


----------



## Vault (Jun 4, 2008)

Aethos said:


> That made me laugh so hard I'm gonna rep you for that.
> 
> I mean that has to be a joke post... right?



cant you se the person who posted it  the name 

he's as serious as it gets


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 4, 2008)

Fleecy said:


> *eye roll* I was voicing my opinion. Excuse me if I don't scrutinize panels of all three series for the sake of comparing their art.



Scrutinize? You seemed to be doing a LOT of scrutinizing in that gigantic post you made.



Fleecy said:


> I simply know that I dislike almost all of the character designs in One Piece.



Okay. Good for you.



Fleecy said:


> I watched/read Naruto and Bleach to their full and have seen/read half of One Piece. Obviously I don't state my opinions as fact; I was telling how I experienced it. You're acting like me thinking Naruto and Bleach is better than One Piece in some areas is a crime. It's my opinion and I could give a rat's ass if you think it's stupid or wrong.



Fine by me. Give a rat's ass. I do think your opinion is founded by faulty evidence (Or stupid, depending on which term I feel like using) but that doesn't mean it's wrong.



Fleecy said:


> But for the record, yes I do think Mihawk is ugly; to hell with his fangirls.



Okay, explain. I don't even like Mihawk, and I know he's not unattractive. Well, unattractive in fictional world. I don't think he would get many dates in real life with those eyes of his.



Fleecy said:


> Robin too; to hell with her fanboys.



Never said anything about Robin's appearance in my post, did I? Also, the comment about Mihawk was a joke. Get a sense of humor, for God's sake.



Fleecy said:


> My character tastes also different from yours in that I'm not interested in Kenpachi at all and find Ishida more likable.



You might like Ishida better, but Kenpaci is generally considered to be better personality-wise. For the past arc, Ishida's only role has been (Unfunny) comic relief. 

Doesn't really matter who you like anyway. Almost no one likes Pokemon Mystery Dungeon besides me. Does my opinion mean it's a good game? Well, it depends upon how you define a good game.



Fleecy said:


> So just lay my thoughts to be left out there and not to be so hostile over, hm?



I'm fine. I find your reasons laughable, and your bias in categories was ridiculous (Seriously, you didn't mention background art at all for Naruto and One Piece, and you completely downplayed that both Skypeia and Alabasta were the distractions from the main storyline you said were absent.), but that doesn't mean I feel any hostility towards you. I only threw one insult your way in the entire post (Haven't read One Piece or sociopathic clam).

Now how about you try to do a rebuttal to my reasons? Show me counter-evidence. I like a good argument. It's more fun than constantly saying either opponent is a wanker/attacker/fanboy/hater/asshole/idiot/moron who only attacks without posting evidence.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

Fleecy said:


> *eye roll* I was voicing my opinion. Excuse me if I don't scrutinize panels of all three series for the sake of comparing their art. I simply know that I dislike almost all of the character designs in One Piece.



Let me guess. It's because they aren't all generic looking bishounens MIRITE?! 



Fleecy said:


> I watched/read Naruto and Bleach to their full and have seen/read half of One Piece. Obviously I don't state my opinions as fact; I was telling how I experienced it. You're acting like me thinking Naruto and Bleach is better than One Piece in some areas is a crime. It's my opinion and I could give a rat's ass if you think it's stupid or wrong.



So you read the entirety of two bad series and try to prove that they're superior over a good series you only read half of?

And it's not that it's a crime. It's more like pure ignorance considering it's obvious that out of the three One Piece is the best written plot wise and it's characters are handled better than either Naruto or Bleach has done.



Fleecy said:


> But for the record, yes I do think Mihawk is ugly; to hell with his fangirls. Robin too; to hell with her fanboys. My character tastes also different from yours in that I'm not interested in Kenpachi at all and find Ishida more likable.



Well I'm sorry that One piece characters can't all be pretty like the cast of Ouran Host Club. I'm sure you'd like the character designs more if they were more "pretty" and made you want to draw constant yaoi fanart of them.



Fleecy said:


> So just lay my thoughts to be left out there and not to be so hostile over, hm?



Well you're kinda bringing it on yourself with these kinds of shallow arguments.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

vault023 said:


> cant you se the person who posted it  the name
> 
> he's as serious as it gets



But there's no way that's serious... It just can't be.... DO NOT WANT!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Legend of Zelda (Jun 4, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Not to mention Ishida is just Sasuke with glasses and mad sewing skillz.



Other than being bishies and the "supposed" last of their clans they're really not that similar.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

Legend of Zelda said:


> Other than being bishies and the "supposed" last of their clans they're really not that similar.



Yeah Ishida didn't fully pull a "I WILL KILL U AND AVENGE MAH CLAN FOR TEH PRIDE OF TEH QUINCY!!!1111" motif during soul society. The only thing he's missing is the sharingan.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 4, 2008)

Come on now, Ishida doesn't fail like Sasuke does. Sure, he fails, but he's not on THAT level of fail.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Come on now, Ishida doesn't fail like Sasuke does. Sure, he fails, but he's not on THAT level of fail.



well that's true but he's close enough. The only difference between Ishida and Sasuke is that Ishida has a working brain.


----------



## Tash (Jun 4, 2008)

As far as art goes Naruto isn't a manga, it's a coloring book.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 4, 2008)

Aethos said:


> well that's true but he's close enough. The only difference between Ishida and Sasuke is that Ishida has a working brain.



I actually agree with C.Hook. Ishida may be bad, but at least he learns from
his mistakes unlike Sasuke (and Naruto for that matter).


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 4, 2008)

armorknight said:


> I actually agree with C.Hook. Ishida may be bad, but at least he learns from
> his mistakes unlike Sasuke (and Naruto for that matter).



I did agree with C Hook about that same thing. That's why I said Ishida has a working brain.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 5, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I did agree with C Hook about that same thing. That's why I said Ishida has a working brain.



Hmm, couldn't tell lol. Sorry. But honestly, Naruto and Sasuke are quite
possibly the 2 worst characters in all of shounen.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 5, 2008)

of course they are... though Ichigo is kinda up there considering how fucking bland he is.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 5, 2008)

Aethos, could you please stop this spamming craze? Wait until some other idiot throws himself on the flames. Then, it's burninater time!


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

FLAME ON!!!


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 5, 2008)

Oda's art gets a lot of shit in his earlier volumes, but it NEVER looked this bad. this thread


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 5, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Aethos, could you please stop this spamming craze? Wait until some other idiot throws himself on the flames. Then, it's burninater time!


I didn't say anything that was spamming. I was having a discussion. Not all discussions must consist of long ass posts.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Since there aren't any people who still like Naruto, I'll pretend to be one

[Uchihatard] Sasuke is the best main character ever. He looks so awesome and he has the Sharingan. Luffy is just some idiot Goku clone made of rubber. Sasuke is a very unique, interesting character with a truly tragic past. And the fight with Itachi was so awesome[/Uchihatard]

Fire away


----------



## armorknight (Jun 5, 2008)

IMO, a shounen main character has to have 3 things to be awesome.

1. Good Battle Skills: I hate main characters that are weak.
What I like is to see a strong main character fight others who are strong.

2 Interesting Personality: This doesn't necessarily mean non-generic. Generic
personalities can be made interesting as well.

3. The Badass Factor: This is quite possibly the most important and is what
solidifies my respect for a main character. They have to give you the impression
that they're badass (especially during fights).

Luffy has all 3 of these traits. Ichigo has 1 and 3, so that makes him decently good.
Sasuke has 1 (used to have 3 too until he became emo). Naruto just fails because
he doesn't have any of the 3 (he really needs 1 and 3 though).


----------



## Legend of Zelda (Jun 5, 2008)

Ichigo doesn't have any of those factors.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Since there aren't any people who still like Naruto, I'll pretend to be one
> 
> [Uchihatard] Sasuke is the best main character ever. He looks so awesome and he has the Sharingan. Luffy is just some idiot Goku clone made of rubber. Sasuke is a very unique, interesting character with a truly tragic past. And the fight with Itachi was so awesome[/Uchihatard]
> 
> Fire away



Don't forget how beautiful and emotionally moving his crying panel was.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Sasuke is the best main character ever. He looks so awesome and he has the Sharingan. Luffy is just some idiot Goku clone made of rubber. Sasuke is a very unique, interesting character with a truly tragic past. And the fight with Itachi was so awesome


I totally agree with this guy. 

you should join the Uchiha gods FC



			
				Seto Kaiba said:
			
		

> Don't forget how beautiful and emotionally moving his crying panel was.


That was the greatest panel in the history of jump shounen manga.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I totally agree with this guy.
> 
> you should join the Uchiha gods FC


Sarcasm friend, do you understand it?

And I like to troll that FC sometimes



> That was the greatest panel in the history of jump shounen manga.


No.

Jotaro vs. Dio was


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Sarcasm friend, do you understand it?



me no andastan 


> Jotaro vs. Dio was


Jojo's bizzare advanture is a shit manga, with some of the worst art i've ever seen. sorry nothing will ever compare to the Sauce's crying scene.

nothing


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Jojo's bizzare advanture is a shit manga, with some of the worst art i've ever seen.


 Let me guess, you read 2 pages and judged the entire series off of that. I thought so


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 5, 2008)

Dude is obviously a troll


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Dude is obviously a troll



But he fails at it.

jplaya and the PB were way better


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Let me guess, you read 2 pages and judged the entire series off of that. I thought so



I read 12 chapters, I thought the plot was lame and the art sucked. 
now CLUMP does amazing art, tsuabasa = best shounen ever.

even better than Naruto
the Syaoran, Kurogane and Fai are so GAR in that manga




			
				mystictrunks said:
			
		

> Dude is obviously a troll


Ohh noes, eh don't lyk mah favarite manga. eh must be a troll


----------



## Parallax (Jun 5, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I read 12 chapters, I thought the plot was lame and the art sucked.
> now CLUMP does amazing art, tsuabasa = best shounen ever.
> 
> even better than Naruto
> ...



JJBA has been going for 20 years, and you only read 12 chapters.  You really have no right to criticise anything.


----------



## Fang (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> But he fails at it.
> 
> jplaya and the PB were way better



Pretty much yeah. Especially considering this is a guy attacking a manga that's been going on for almost twenty-one years and is putting CLAMP, over Ultra Jump.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I read 12 chapters, I thought the plot was lame and the art sucked.


 You do realize the art changes completely later on



> now CLUMP does amazing art, tsuabasa = best shounen ever.


It's not even a shounen anymore since they brought yaoi into it



> the Syaoran, Kurogane and Fai are so GAR in that manga


GAY is more like it. Ambiguous males horny for each other =/= GAR.



> Ohh noes, eh don't lyk mah favarite manga. eh must be a troll


Fission Mailed


----------



## Sylar (Jun 5, 2008)

FTR Ishida is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sasuke simply because he's Ryuuken's son.


----------



## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

I like Naruto the best but One Piece is still awesome. Bleach is plain shit though. SHIT FUCKING SUUUUCKS!

Anyway, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is my favorite overall shonen with Naruto in a close second. Fuck you guys.


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> I like Naruto the best but One Piece is still awesome. Bleach is plain shit though. SHIT FUCKING SUUUUCKS!
> 
> JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is my favorite overall shonen with Naruto in a close second. Fuck you guys.




Reverse One Piece and Naruto and Bleach and Naruto and then I will agree with you


----------



## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

*Fuck Bleach.*

I don't know why that sack of shit is in the "shonen trinity." Only thing worse than that is Inu-fucking-Yasha.


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (Jun 5, 2008)

Sylar said:


> FTR Ishida is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sasuke simply because he's Ryuuken's son.




Ryuuken >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Naruto

It's a fact.

In fact, the only people from Bleach,OP or Naruto that can stand up to Ryuuken are Stark, Law, and Aokiji. After that, all are fodder.


----------



## Fang (Jun 5, 2008)

Sylar said:


> FTR Ishida is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sasuke simply because he's Ryuuken's son.



Seriously what male would perfer CLAMP, which targets the female fandom of manga with yaoi and Shoujo, over Ultimate Jump?


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Right now I'm starting to find Naruto to be so bad it's funny. It's such utter shit now and Kishimoto's ideas are becoming so fucking retarded (LOL @ the new spoilers), that I can't help but crack up as I read it.

Bleach was utter shit in HM, but the new flashback arc is surprisingly enjoyable.

One Piece hasn't ever been bad since Alabasta (before that, there was Drum Island, which I didn't like, but that was about it). It has had slight ups and downs, but has been rather consistent in quality. TB was awesome and the new arc looks pretty promising


----------



## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Dude, Mirai Gohan, I finaly finished Part 4 of JJBA. Yoshikage Kira is made of fuckwin!


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> *Fuck Bleach.*
> 
> I don't know why that sack of shit is in the "shonen trinity." Only thing worse than that is Inu-fucking-Yasha.




The reason why that sack of shit is in the shonen trinity is because it has actual interesting characters and villains. Sadly, the same can't be said about Naruto anymore.


----------



## Fang (Jun 5, 2008)

The only truly likeable characters in Bleach that aren't generic, boring or sterotypical are Isshin, Yamamoto-Ji, Ryuuken, Shunsui and Stark.

Noitora was ruined with his flashback during his fight with Kenpachi (Kendo is probably the gayest power up ever), Le Roux was just pathetic and Grimmjow and Ichigo's fight was atrocious.


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (Jun 5, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> The only truly likeable characters in Bleach that aren't generic, boring or sterotypical are *Isshin, Yamamoto-Ji, Ryuuken, Shunsui and Stark.*
> 
> Noitora was ruined with his flashback during his fight with Kenpachi (Kendo is probably the gayest power up ever), Le Roux was just pathetic and Grimmjow and Ichigo's fight was atrocious.



And that's more than you can ever find in Naruto. The only characters I even remotely show interest for are Gaara and Neji and unfortunately, Kishi decided to write them off. 

I would have liked Pein if he wasn't such a douchebag.


----------



## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

I personaly think Naruto has the best characters, minus the Uchiha faggotry. Bleach is full of piss-poor one dimensional characters with boring abilities and worse designs.

Funny though, I can't find a nitpick for One Piece.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> The only truly likeable characters in Bleach that aren't generic, boring or sterotypical are Isshin, Yamamoto-Ji, Ryuuken, Shunsui and Stark.


No Don Kanonji?


----------



## Fang (Jun 5, 2008)

Don Kaiojii is the King of Soul Society.

You can't like him. You must love him.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2008)

The only reason i would still have Naruto in the trinity is because of the comedy that was the last 2 chapters :rofl

Bleach was overall pretty mediocre in HM, but with Narutos current state i dont see how it can be that much better than Bleach..

With that said, those 2 shouldnt be compared with OP which is simply on a different lvl in quality.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> The only reason i would still have Naruto in the trinity is because of the comedy that was the last 2 chapters :lol



LOL, Naruto the crow eater


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> LOL, Naruto the crow eater



Adding crying Sauce and the retarded hawk


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

I hope there's more lulz like that to come


----------



## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Adding crying Sauce and the retarded hawk


YOU CALLED, BITCH?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> I hope there's more lulz like that to come



Me too, that will give me a reason to read the chapters again and not only the spoilers


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> You do realize the art changes completely later on
> 
> It's not even a shounen anymore since they brought yaoi into it
> 
> ...



Kazuma I'm not surprised he likes series about ambiguous males being horny for each other. After all he is a Naruto fan.


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## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Kazuma I'm not surprised he likes series about ambiguous males being horny for each other. After all he is a Naruto fan.


Sorry Aethos, but you are in no position to question the sexuality of Naruto fans being a Code Geass fan. Definately the faggiest show is Ouran.

Actualy, thats pretty amusing.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> Sorry Aethos, but you are in no position to question the sexuality of Naruto fans being a Code Geass fan. Definately the faggiest show is Ouran.
> 
> Actualy, thats pretty amusing.



Hey Code Geass; animation may have been done by CLAMP but that doesn't mean it's a CLAMP series. If it were a CLAMP series it would tie into the continuity of other CLAMP series like most CLAMP series seem to do.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> Sorry Aethos, but you are in no position to question the sexuality of Naruto fans being a Code Geass fan.


As mediocre as Code Geass is, it's still WAY better than Naruto right now.


----------



## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

And a lot GAYER too. The series was created as yaoi fodder and has more canon gay then Naruto ever dreamed of.

Protip: It dosn't have to be a CLAMP series to be as gay as rectal warts.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> And a lot GAYER too. The series was created as yaoi fodder and has more canon gay then Naruto ever dreamed of.
> 
> Protip: It dosn't have to be a CLAMP series to be as gay as rectal warts.



Have you even watched the series?


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> And a lot GAYER too. The series was created as yaoi fodder and has more canon gay then Naruto ever dreamed of.


It doesn't get much more canon gay than NarutoxSasuke without turning into pure yaoi shit like Gravitation



> Protip: It dosn't have to be a CLAMP series to be gay as rectal warts.


Case in point: Naruto


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## Aldric (Jun 5, 2008)

Code Geass is gay as all hell

And Aethos and a couple other One Piece fans on this thread are easily as terrible as the worst the Naruto fandom has to offer

Sorry guys but liking One Piece doesn't magically prevent you from being a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)


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## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Atleast Naruto is a better series than Code Geass anyway. I mean goddamn, its fucking bishonen uke Stretch Armstrong.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> Atleast Naruto is a better series than Code Geass anyway. I mean goddamn, its fucking bishonen uke Strech Armstrong.


Code Geass may be mediocrity at its finest, but Naruto is absolute shit with zero chance of redemption whatsoever (in the ch. 403 spoiler thread, even some of the hardcore Naru and Uchihatards are beginning to admit that it's getting retarded).

Honestly, when a series that gets by on rabid, ignorant 13-year-olds as its fanbase is getting bashed by said fanbase, you know your series is beyond all hope of salvation


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## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Code Geass may be mediocrity at its finest, but Naruto is absolute shit with zero chance of redemption whatsoever (in the ch. 403 spoiler thread, even some of the hardcore Naru and Uchihatards are beginning to admit that it's getting retarded).
> 
> Honestly, when a series that gets by on rabid, ignorant 13-year-olds as its fanbase is getting bashed by said fanbase, you know your series is beyond all hope of salvation


Okay, in all honesty I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. Bleach fans reached this exact same point during the Hueco Mundo arc and HOLY SHIT WHATS THIS? People are saying its decent agin. Don't leap off the boat before it reaches the island.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> Okay, in all honesty I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. Bleach fans reached this exact same point during the Hueco Mundo arc and HOLY SHIT WHATS THIS? People are saying its decent agin. Don't leap off the boat before it reaches the island.



Even HM arc wasn't as bad as current Naruto is. Naruto's newest powerup from Itachi is dumber than fucking KENDO for God's sake. I suppose there is a very faint chance of recovery, but honestly, Naruto the crow-eater and the hawk I feel are bad omens. Kishimoto is out of ideas and doesn't know where he wants to go with his series, that's a fact


----------



## Aldric (Jun 5, 2008)

Naruto is beyond salvation there's no doubt about it

Even a good ending won't erase 200 chapters worth of nonsensical plot, pathetic excuse for character development, subpar art, and everything else that makes current Naruto a joke


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> Okay, in all honesty I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. Bleach fans reached this exact same point during the Hueco Mundo arc and HOLY SHIT WHATS THIS? People are saying its decent agin. Don't leap off the boat before it reaches the island.



It's not jumping the gun. Part II has been out for over 150 chapters now, and a bulk of it has been either mediocre, or just terrible to some and it isn't getting better. Both Bleach and Naruto suffer from recycled rescue arcs though. All of Part II has been one big rescue arc, and Hueco Mundo is a poorly-recycled version of the SS arc. The difference in Bleach and Naruto is that since Part II at least, the side characters have been almost completely neglected, they barely get in scuffles. What's more is that unlike Bleach, Naruto has neglected its main character for a year and a half when he desperately needed development in favor of even more focus on a poorly written Gary Stu. Even moreso, is duration. HM arc is much shorter than the current rescue Sasuke arc which encompasses all of Part II basically and has long since taken away from potential character and plot development.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Even HM arc wasn't as bad as current Naruto is. Naruto's newest powerup from Itachi is dumber than fucking KENDO for God's sake. I suppose there is a very faint chance of recovery, but honestly, Naruto the crow-eater and the hawk I feel are bad omens. Kishimoto is out of ideas and doesn't know where he wants to go with his series, that's a fact



Ever since the chapters where the captains arrived in HM (With the exception of Zomari vs Buyakuya) Bleach HM has been better than Naruto in the same period imo.


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## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Even HM arc wasn't as bad as current Naruto is. Naruto's newest powerup from Itachi is dumber than fucking KENDO for God's sake. I suppose there is a very faint chance of recovery, but honestly, Naruto the crow-eater and the hawk I feel are bad omens. Kishimoto is out of ideas and doesn't know where he wants to go with his series, that's a fact


I kind of understand were you are coming from. I have the same view points you have of Naruto for Bleach. In the end it all boils down to opinion. lets face it, both mangas are doing cruddy compared to how they used to be. We should be happy that One Piece is still going strong.

Still, I hold to my opinion that Naruto is a good manga overall. I have hope for it.

I may pick up Bleach agin once its done but I've currently dropped it.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

The last part of Naruto that I felt was truly enjoyable, was Kakashi Gaiden arc. Part 2 (And the Sound 5) has been consistently poor quality, and with Kishimoto's lack of ideas and the two shitty main villains, I can't see any improvement happening, no matter how I look at it


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## Aldric (Jun 5, 2008)

People are bashing part 2 mainly but truthfully it all went to shit during the first rescue Sasuke arc


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Aldric said:


> People are bashing part 2 mainly but truthfully it all went to shit during the first rescue Sasuke arc



I actually did mention the first rescue Sasuke arc in my post.


----------



## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

I enjoyed the sound 5 arc. It had some interesting villians and I found the fights to be pretty damn awesome. Care to explain why it sucked? It couldn't have been the fights, I mean, look at Bleach's non-existant fights.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> I enjoyed the sound 5 arc. It had some interesting villians and I found the fights to be pretty damn awesome. Care to explain why it sucked? It couldn't have been the fights, I mean, look at Bleach's non-existant fights.



It sucked mainly because the fight between Sasuke and Naruto at the end was horrible. The action in that fight sucked and it was laced with random moments of flashback and shounen-ai.


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## sko99 (Jun 5, 2008)

i love it how people are trashing naruto when they are a member of a _naruto_ forum...

naruto> code geass though. that just felt like i was watching death note and gundam seed at the same time.


----------



## Legend of Zelda (Jun 5, 2008)

Giorno Giovanna said:


> The reason why that sack of shit is in the shonen trinity is because it has actual interesting characters and *villains*. Sadly, the same can't be said about Naruto anymore.




Really. Aizens and his groupies have always felt very generic to me. I enjoyed watching Nnoitra beat on Ichigo and whatnot though. I guess I'm just tired of seeing "generic badass" villains in anime. And if you're not set up to be a "generic pretty boy badass" villain in Bleach you're set up as an absolute failure.

I liked his Privaron espada's alot better. The Spaniard, afo guy, and the gothic girl. I liked their attitude and design better and I guess it's mainly because it didn't feel like Kubo was trying to make you like them. Where as he did with Grimmjow and Ulquiorra.

I liked how Kishi made his some members of Akatsuki and Orochimaru to be more like monsters.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

sko99 said:


> i love it how people are trashing naruto when they are a member of a _naruto_ forum...


Oh, God. Not this shit again. There's always some moron in the OBD who brings this up.

Most of us liked Naruto during Part 1 and at that time we weren't to familiar with many other series. As Part 2 struck and we read more manga, we began to see it as what it is.

And I stay out of any Naruto sections. I only post in the Outskirts areas mostly (OBD more specifically) where everybody hates Naruto


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## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

sko99 said:


> i love it how people are trashing naruto when they are a member of a _naruto_ forum...


That is not a good arguement unless you want a shitstrom.

Anyway, am I the only one who enjoyed the Hidan and Kakuzu arc? I personaly think thats the latest thing I enjoyed. sasuke as the main focus really drug the series downhill IMO.




The OBD is a piece of shit. Just thought I'd throw that out.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Oh, God. Not this shit again. There's always some moron in the OBD who brings this up.
> 
> *Most of us liked Naruto during Part 1 and at that time we weren't to familiar with many other series. As Part 2 struck and we read more manga, we began to see it as what it is.*
> 
> And I stay out of any Naruto sections. I only post in the Outskirts areas mostly (OBD more specifically) where everybody hates Naruto



Exactly the same for me. Back then i thought The Rescue Sasuke Arc was epic. Now a couple of years later after discovering better series i think it was pretty mediocre. Though it had good fights imo.


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## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Its funny because I've seen tons of other series and Naruto is still my second favorite manga. Who woulda thought.


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## Seto Kaiba (Jun 5, 2008)

Eh, I liked the first Rescue Sasuke arc alright. To me, Naruto started going downhill with the introduction of Sai and ch.309, but I still had optimism. I felt it started really going on a downward spiral after the Immortals Arc.


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## Legend of Zelda (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> That is not a good arguement unless you want a shitstrom.
> 
> Anyway, am I the only one who enjoyed the Hidan and Kakuzu arc? I personaly think thats the latest thing I enjoyed. sasuke as the main focus really drug the series downhill IMO.
> 
> ...



Pein and Madara haven't helped the series either.


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## sko99 (Jun 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Oh, God. Not this shit again. There's always some moron in the OBD who brings this up.
> 
> Most of us liked Naruto during Part 1 and at that time we weren't to familiar with many other series. As Part 2 struck and we read more manga, we began to see it as what it is.
> 
> And I stay out of any Naruto sections. I only post in the Outskirts areas mostly (OBD more specifically) where everybody hates Naruto


*sigh*

note the "i love it" bit...

i never said "NARUTO IZ TEH BEST and fuck anyone who doesnt like it!" now did i?


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## Aldric (Jun 5, 2008)

Chap 340 and TEAM SSSSSNAKE were the final nails on the coffin as far as I'm concerned

Oh yeah my interest was briefly revived with the introduction of Pein and Konan too, I thought they looked really awesome and had high hopes for them

I think we all know what happend next


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 5, 2008)

Pein is a douche, Konan is boring as hell and went down without a fight, and Madara is another personality-less Uchiha


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## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Legend of Zelda said:


> Pein and Madara haven't helped the series either.


I like Pein. 

Tobi _was_ awesome until he was revealed to be Uchiha faggotry.


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## Fang (Jun 5, 2008)

Really, I thought the chapter cover with Orochimaru straddling Saucekay Kun with his body and his tongue was enveloping his body was that fail nail. Or the fact that Naruto was a little bitch in 309.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2008)

Aldric said:


> I think we all know what happend next



After that it started going downhill fast without ending there. As it is now it can only get worse making it good in a hilarious way, which has already begun with the past 2 chapters


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## Seto Kaiba (Jun 5, 2008)

I didn't like how Part II basically shat in the face of the themes in Part I. I get more of a feeling of valuing one's friends and gaining true strength through bonds from One Piece and Bleach than I do with Naruto currently.


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## Kaenboshi (Jun 5, 2008)

Get me take a crack at this...

Essentially, One Piece is waaaaaaayy better than Bleach and Naruto (surprising that someone w/ my username would say that, right?). A loveable main cast who _all_ have some importance and shining moments, truly detestable yet unique villains, stunning locales drawn in gorgeous detail, mold breaking character designs, and a story that can be dramatic, upbeat, or a tearjerker, yet knows where to draw the line and stop taking things so seriously.

Actually, it's not simply the win One Piece exudes, but the paragons of mediocrity Bleach and Naruto are/have become. With Bleach, there's the weak plot, foremost. Yes, Bleach technically has a plot, not that the sequence of events with occasional transitions and plot twists holds up well. Clearly, Kubo's main focus is on characters considering how rare it is see a detailed background.

Therein lies another issue: I don't really care about Ichigo as a main character. I know none of the main characters really break new ground or anything, but out of them all, but Ichigo's at the bottom rung. I don't hate him, his teenager with a hero complex shtick just got old. If anything, I wish Kubo had made the story in a way which could feature some of his better characters (who tend to be secondary and tertiary characters) like Mayuri, Ryuuken, and the Privaron Espada more often.

Naruto, at this point is just meh. I'm ceasing to care what happens to anyone at this point. Naruto's greatest issue, especially in part 2, is the fact that each arc started out with great potential, and might have lived up to some of it, but by the end it, simply ending can become a blessing. The only possibly okay arc was Rescue Gaara. After that, it's been three disappointments (hell, embarrassments) in row. I could have ignored the disastrous Grass country/Penis arc (hell, I tried). I might been able to let go of the lackluster finale to Nightmare/Shougi/whatever arc. But after this arc, I just can?t be bothered.

The real debate would be whether one considers Bleach better than Naruto or vice-versa. I'd say it alternates: currently Bleach is probably better due to the flashback arc (which itself fizzled halfway through, but whatever) as a general improvement to the mediocre at best Hueco Mundo arc, and Naruto's current direction.

Really, if there are two series currently running in WSJ to discuss in comparison to One Piece, I'd nominate Fairy Tail and Katekyo Hitman Reborn. So, yeah...

Not that I've added anything new to the discussion.


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## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Kaenboshi said:


> Get me take a crack at this...
> 
> Essentially, One Piece is waaaaaaayy better than Bleach and Naruto (surprising that someone w/ my username would say that, right?). A loveable main cast who _all_ have some importance and shining moments, truly detestable yet unique villains, stunning locales drawn in gorgeous detail, mold breaking character designs, and a story that can be dramatic, upbeat, or a tearjerker, yet knows where to draw the line and stop taking things so seriously.
> 
> ...


I like Naruto and One Piece about the same. Katekyo Hitman Reborn and Bleach are garbage though.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 5, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> The only truly likeable characters in Bleach that aren't generic, boring or sterotypical are Isshin, Yamamoto-Ji, Ryuuken, Shunsui and Stark.
> 
> Noitora was ruined with his flashback during his fight with Kenpachi (Kendo is probably the gayest power up ever), Le Roux was just pathetic and Grimmjow and Ichigo's fight was atrocious.



Isshin; True.
Yamamoto - old man that refuses to be open minded.
Ryuuken - Tough love kind of father.  Only his quips make him stand out.
Shunsui - Lovey dovey guy always hitting on a girl getting beat up.  Only stand out point is he is strong.
Stark - DOES NOT HAVE A CHARACTER TYPE YET.  Oh wait, lazy strong guy.  First time for that.

You're fucking with us.  I just know it.


----------



## Monna (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, its been a fun discussion. See ya guys.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 5, 2008)

The main problem I have with Naruto in part 2 is that it shows a lot of promise in the beginning only to fuck it all up in the end. 

(*RANTRANTRANTRANTRANTRANT*)

Take the Rescue Sasuke for example. Neji is in critical condition, Chouji is supposed to be DEAD and Naruto/Sasuke finally have their anticipated fight. Not only do Neji and worse yet Chouji get off injury free, Naruto/Sasuke wound up being "HAA IM STRONGER NO WAI YOU GOT MORE POWER THEN ILL GET NMORE O NOW YOURE STRONGER AGAIN ILL GET STRONGER TOO CHIDORI/RASENGAN BLABLABALBALBALABLABLA!!!!!". And while it was an emotional fight it felt kind of tacked on considering there was no indication early on that Naruto/Sasuke shared such a deep bond in the first place.

Then there's Rescue Gaara. The only thing that sucked was Gaara magically being revived, but considering this is Kishimoto and this is Shounen I'm not surprised to see a good guy that's Naruto's age surviving.

Sai/Sasuke arc was the point where the manga started turning into a literal joke. It had a good start with Yamato and Sai being a complte asshole (although I'd much prefer if Sai was a girl, the penis jokes would have been so much better) and the potential of seeing Sasuke again. Then we get the beef of it. While Orochimaru/KN4 was pretty hectic, Sakura, despite holding he own against Akatsuki, got KO'd by Kabuto's flying ass. After that battle though it went downhill. The piss poor cliffhanger with Sai being hanged to Sai giving Kabuto the full nelson to Sai being completely converted by Naruto in the most pathetic way possible to Sasuke/Team 7 meeting chapter being filled with no dialog, shocked faces and "..." or "!" to ending it with Naruto groveling on the ground only for Sai and Yamato to say some cheesy shit and viola everything's ok!

Hidan/Kakuzu arc introduced 2 promising members with enjoyable personalties. A seemingly immortal man and a strong dude killing Asuma and Naruto trains for his new move. After Asuma died though, the arc pretty much turned into a giant piece of crap. Hidan winds up being a one trick pony who loses to Super Shikamaru, Ino takes over a defenseless bird and gives "brilliant" analysis on Hidan's immortality, Chouji shows that he should be DEAD instead of cheapening his emotional moment by not doing a damn thing worthwhile since, Kakuzu loses to Naruto in one of the most rushed and pathetic fights in part 2 and Naruto shows his new move is yet ANOTHER Rasengan but bigger and attacks the cells or whatever. But now he can't use it because it fucks his arm up!  

Uchiha/Revelations arc is just about the worst offender in this regard. There were some good parts like Sasuke/Deidara, getting answers to our questions, and finally seeing Sasuke/Itachi...but the potential proved to be useless. Sasuke winds up gathering a team full of bland pieces of crap. Suigetsu is probably the best one but wound up being full of crap after being scared of Sasuke's killing intent despite being from the FUCKING MIST (lil bitch). Karin was shown knocking someone out in her intro and showing the possibility of being one of the few respectable women in this manga. Kishimoto though said "FUCK THAT" and made her an annoying Sasuke fangirl who's only worth is using her GPS she implanted in her vagina. Juugo wound up being a retarded Android 16. Sasuke/Deidara was a good fight but had one helluva bullshit ending. I was excited about Pein being AL but that was absolutely worthless when another Uchiha was the TRUE AL. Pein/Jiraiya was below average but was damn near ruined with Pein's whole "IMMAGOD FEAR ME PAIN MAKES ME STRONG GBHGBGHGBHGBABBABABA I JUST CUT MYLSEF IMSTROGNER NOW!!!!!!" not to mention that a portion of the fight was cut. Sasuke/Itachi was, considering the anticipation, the most disappointing fight in the entire series. Then we find out that Itachi was a good guy all along! Oh and Kisame's fight was completely skipped.

(*RANTRANTRANTRANTRANTRANT*)






sko99 said:


> i love it how people are trashing naruto when they are a member of a _naruto_ forum...



yeah because Naruto is the only thing we're allowed to talk about on this board.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 5, 2008)

Paul the SK said:


> And a lot GAYER too. The series was created as yaoi fodder and has more canon gay then Naruto ever dreamed of.
> 
> Protip: It dosn't have to be a CLAMP series to be as gay as rectal warts.



I bet you're the kind of person who likes to accuse Gensomaden Saiyuki of being a yaoi series too when there's absolutely no yaoi in it.

The same is with Code Geass I mean there's really no traces of yaoi at all in Code Geass.

Honestly you can't get more yaoi than Naruto these days.



sko99 said:


> i love it how people are trashing naruto when they are a member of a _naruto_ forum...
> 
> naruto> code geass though. that just felt like i was watching death note and gundam seed at the same time.



:tices he accidently pos repped him instead of negged him for that level of faggotry::

*FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!* 



Black Leg Sanji said:


> Exactly the same for me. Back then i thought The Rescue Sasuke Arc was epic. Now a couple of years later after discovering better series i think it was pretty mediocre. Though it had good fights imo.



Agreed. I loved Naruto until the end of Kakashi Gaiden. It's just that when part 2 came about and along with reading other series many of us realized that Naruto was pure shit.


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## C-Moon (Jun 5, 2008)

sko99 said:


> i love it how people are trashing naruto when they are a member of a _naruto_ forum...
> 
> naruto> code geass though. that just felt like i was watching death note and gundam seed at the same time.




I hate when ppl bring this bullshit up. Don't you realize that ppl registered for Naruto before picking up other shonen? They liked it at first, then either grew out of it or read other manga, compared it to Naruto and found it mediocre. Or they never liked it in the first place, but wanted to be part of an anime community.



Paul the SK said:


> Well, its been a fun discussion. See ya guys.




Good. Now never come back. Troll.


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## Amatsu (Jun 5, 2008)

Lets face it do you think people on Bleach forums criticize Bleach? Yeah probably. So then what's wrong with us criticizing Naruto on a Naruto forum? Does Naruto have some magical immunity to criticism because it's a fad about as overrated as final fantasy 7?


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## C-Moon (Jun 5, 2008)

We don't get together for a massive Naruto circle jerk. We let the Uchiha fans do that.


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## sko99 (Jun 5, 2008)

woah. people here are way too sensitive. one sentence can lead to reactions 0_o
i was just merely commenting that there's a lot naruto haters here. i dont think i was even insulting anybody...


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## Kaenboshi (Jun 5, 2008)

^ A lot people see the same points made over and over, and after awhile it gets refuting them.


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## C-Moon (Jun 5, 2008)

sko99 said:


> woah. people here are way too sensitive. one sentence can lead to reactions 0_o
> i was just merely commenting that there's a lot naruto haters here. i dont think i was even insulting anybody...




It's an argument everyone is tired of.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2008)

sko99 said:


> woah. people here are way too sensitive. one sentence can lead to reactions 0_o
> i was just merely commenting that there's a lot naruto haters here. i dont think i was even insulting anybody...



Because a comment like that is totaly irrelevant to this topic and it has been said so many times before 

And the way it was worded could be comprehended as insulting btw..


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## Amatsu (Jun 5, 2008)

> We don't get together for a massive Naruto circle jerk. We let the Uchiha fans do that.



Exactly



> woah. people here are way too sensitive. one sentence can lead to reactions 0_o
> i was just merely commenting that there's a lot naruto haters here. i dont think i was even insulting anybody...



It's just that the most ignorant and dumbass NaruTards use that argument as if we're supposed to praise the series and think it's the best ever no matter how obviously shitty it's writing is because this is a Naruto forum. It gets really fucking annoying.


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## Ennoea (Jun 5, 2008)

> i love it how people are trashing naruto when they are a member of a naruto forum..



Lol most of us never even go in to the Naruto areas.



> Agreed. I loved Naruto until the end of Kakashi Gaiden. It's just that when part 2 came about and along with reading other series many of us realized that Naruto was pure shit.



The Gaara rescue arc was atleast half decent, everything after that has been nothing but a disappointment, its been getting worse week by week. Hidan/Kakuzu arc was a joke.


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## Superrazien (Jun 5, 2008)

One Piece is clearly Superior to Naruto and very highly superior to Bleach.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 5, 2008)

is superior with a capital s more superior than very highly superior?  Good god, superior.


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## Ennoea (Jun 5, 2008)

> and very highly superior to Bleach.



What a great argument


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## Superrazien (Jun 5, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> What a great argument



Trying to argue OP is highly superior to Bleach is not an argument at all. Now if you can argue Bleach> OP now that should be an argument worth reading. But I don't believe such an argument exists.


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## tictactoc (Jun 5, 2008)

Superrazien said:


> One Piece is clearly Superior to Naruto and very highly superior to Bleach.



Thanks for your input


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 5, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> Thanks for your input



How ironic. Tell me, what does your post right there input?

Also, I believe this topic is finished. Can we stop posting now? This argument is done, finished, and dead. The Naruto/Bleach fans are (Usually) stupid, the One Piece fans flame (Like me), and the (REALLY) annoying spectators add gasoline. It's been the same for twenty pages, it's not like it's going to progress any more.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 5, 2008)

Bleach is clearly inferior to One Piece and very highly inferior to Naruto.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 5, 2008)

Zorokiller said:


> Bleach is clearly inferior to One Piece and very highly inferior to Naruto.



true. heck it's even inferior to Togashi. Yeah Hunter x Hunter's art has dropped but at least Togashi can draw backgrounds.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 5, 2008)

In kishi's defence, he can draw backgrounds pretty damn well when he wants to(Konoha buildings plus other stuff that i can seem to remember)

Kubo, lol polygons


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 6, 2008)

Uhm doesn't kishi only draw the characters, his assistants draw the background right?


----------



## Codde (Jun 6, 2008)

I don't see how it should matter if the scenes are decided and laid out by him. Though mangas are generally not a one-person job either way.


----------



## cozapple (Jun 6, 2008)

i really can't stand one piece, honestly!
naruto will always rule my world  along with dragonball z ! lollers.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 6, 2008)

cozapple said:


> i really can't stand one piece, honestly!
> naruto will always rule my world  along with dragonball z ! lollers.



Maybe you should try One Piece some more (The manga version, not the anime version.). Oda said Toriyama (Dragonball (Z) writer) was his greatest influence.

Also, if you like good anime, maybe you should try Cowboy Beebop, Death Note, or Full Metal Alchemist. All three of those are quality shows (Well, Death Note is the same as the manga, but it still rocks.) Even Full Metal Alchemist, which is usually hated by fans of the manga, is still is better than Naruto in my eyes. 

Also, don't forget about Soul Eater! The art is bland, but the creativity in that manga is pretty awesome.

Just don't do Bleach. Bleach is one of the few things in my eyes worse than Naruto.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 6, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Also, if you like good anime, maybe you should try Cowboy Beebop, Death Note, or *Full Metal Alchemist*. All three of those are quality shows (Well, Death Note is the same as the manga, but it still rocks.) Even Full Metal Alchemist, which is usually hated by fans of the manga, is still is better than Naruto in my eyes.


Oh, God no.

The manga is great, but I hated the anime. The anime is just a pile of emo bullshit


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 6, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Oh, God no.
> 
> The manga is great, but I hated the anime. The anime is just a pile of *emo* bullshit



you 
are
made
of
fail


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 6, 2008)

cozapple said:


> i really can't stand one piece, honestly!
> naruto will always rule my world  along with dragonball z ! lollers.



read more series for god sakes.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 6, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> you
> are
> made
> of
> fail





Seriously though, the anime was a total butchery of the manga.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 6, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Oh, God no.
> 
> The manga is great, but I hated the anime. The anime is just a pile of emo bullshit



The beginning of the anime was done better than the beginning of the manga due to stretching out things that had been woefully compressed (Death of Hughes, for instance, was made better because we got to know Hughes and the relationship he had with Ed and Al.). After Lab 5, the quality of the anime started going down while the quality of the manga started rising (Because what's-her-name realized that she didn't have to end it so quickly). Full Metal Alchemist, in my opinion, is underrated by the fans of the manga simply because the direction it took after Lab 5 was pretty strange (By the way, alternate dimensions suck balls, and Ed should NEVER have brought Al back to life.).

Other than story, the anime was also underrated in other aspects. Framerate and music were both wonderful, and the use of color was beautiful.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 6, 2008)

Superrazien said:


> One Piece is clearly slightly better than Naruto and Bleach.



fixed for you.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 6, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Seriously though, the anime was a total butchery of the manga.



you
are
made
of
fail


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 6, 2008)

the shounen trinity should be One Piece, FMA, and Hunter x Hunter. Naruto and Bleach should get back to the bottom of the bargin bin.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 6, 2008)

cozapple said:


> i really can't stand one piece, honestly!
> naruto will always rule my world  along with dragonball z ! lollers.



Stop trolling! Nobody likes Naruto we all know that


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 6, 2008)

Aethos said:


> the shounen trinity should be One Piece, FMA, and Hunter x Hunter. Naruto and Bleach should get back to the bottom of the bargin bin.



Bleach has actually managed to become somewhat good again something Naruto hasnt managed.

But i agree on the 3 you mentioned should be in the trinity. However as Bleach is now it doesnt belong anywhere near the bottom, more like close to the middle imo.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 6, 2008)

Aethos said:


> the shounen trinity should be One Piece, FMA, and Hunter x Hunter. Naruto and Bleach should get back to the bottom of the bargin bin.



I don't think it's so much that the trinity represents the "best" (note the quotations ), but rather the three most mainstream shonen series out right now that come out on a regular weekly basis. So that would disqualify FMA because of its monthly basis, and definitely disqualify H x H because of its "whenever hell freezes over" basis.


----------



## Masaki (Jun 6, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Bleach has actually managed to become somewhat good again something Naruto hasnt managed.
> 
> But i agree on the 3 you mentioned should be in the trinity. However as Bleach is now it doesnt belong anywhere near the bottom, more like close to the middle imo.



Am I really the only one who doesn't like HxH...?

Either way, Naruto should definitely be out of the trinity.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 6, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> I don't think it's so much that the trinity represents the "best" (note the quotations ), but rather the three most mainstream shonen series out right now that come out on a regular weekly basis. So that would disqualify FMA because of its monthly basis, and definitely disqualify H x H because of its "whenever hell freezes over" basis.



meh I thought it always represented the best series... but if it's going the way you describe then yeah I could see why those two would be disqualified.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 6, 2008)

Masaki said:


> Am I really the only one who doesn't like HxH...?



I heard a rumor that there was a guy somewhere in Europe who doesn't like it, but other than that, yes, you are the only one.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 6, 2008)

I hate Gon, but I do like the series itself.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 6, 2008)

Masaki said:


> Am I really the only one who doesn't like HxH...?



What's wrong with HxH?


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 6, 2008)

I would actually like HxH more if the damn author gave a fuck about his own manga. Even though I don't like Kishi or Kubo, they at least release their manga weekly and on a timely basis. Togashi on the other hand is a lazy ass. I'm not even picking up HxH again till the manga is over.

I do think the manga is creative with its fights/concepts though.


----------



## Masaki (Jun 6, 2008)

Aethos said:


> What's wrong with HxH?



Greed Island.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 6, 2008)

Aethos said:


> What's wrong with HxH?



Togashi is a lazy bastard.


----------



## Masaki (Jun 6, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Togashi is a lazy bastard.



I could even overlook this if Greed Island wasn't a piece of trash.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 6, 2008)

Masaki said:


> Greed Island.



I liked Greed Island... best training arc in a shounen series ever.


----------



## Masaki (Jun 6, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I liked Greed Island... best training arc in a shounen series ever.



Must have something to do with the fact I hate training arcs, then.

Because I placed that as my all-time least favorite arcs, tied with Hidan and Kazuku.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 6, 2008)

Greed Island was nowhere near as bad as the Hidan and Kakuzu arc.

I mean heck at least Togashi made it fun. Kishimoto and Kubo just know how to bore people during training arcs.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 6, 2008)

Aethos said:


> the shounen trinity should be One Piece, FMA, and Hunter x Hunter. Naruto and Bleach should get back to the bottom of the bargin bin.



I think i found a new reason to hate one piece fans. Who in their right mind would put one piece in the same category as FMA or HXH. When one piece gets better then eyeshield 21...well that just won't happen...


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 6, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> I think i found a new reason to hate one piece fans. Who in their right mind would put one piece in the same category as FMA or HXH. When one piece gets better then eyeshield 21...well that just won't happen...



I hate sports manga so why would I think any of them as being "good?"

and One Piece has always been on the same level as FMA and HxH.


----------



## Tash (Jun 6, 2008)

Masaki said:


> Greed Island.



I can kinda agree with this. With the exception of Razor, GI was boring. The Chimera and York Shin arcs made up for it though.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 6, 2008)

Swajio said:


> I can kinda agree with this. With the exception of Razor, GI was boring. The Chimera and York Shin arcs made up for it though.



I liked Bisque...


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 6, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> I think i found a new reason to hate one piece fans. Who in their right mind would put one piece in the same category as FMA or HXH. When one piece gets better then eyeshield 21...well that just won't happen...



Not to be mean, but the beginning of FMA sucked balls. Other than that, the manga is very good. HxH comes out once every thousand years, and the recent art sucks. Yeah, I would put One Piece at their level. However, One Piece is a weekly, and thus is compared with Narufail and Chlorox Bleach.


----------



## Masaki (Jun 6, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Greed Island was nowhere near as bad as the Hidan and Kakuzu arc.
> 
> I mean heck at least Togashi made it fun. Kishimoto and Kubo just know how to bore people during training arcs.



It didn't even feel like a training arc to me.  It was just do something, get card, dance around, repeat process.  I was hoping the cards would make the combat interesting but all it did was just affect other people's cards.  Most retarded card system ever.  The fact that their strategy revolved around having as many of one card as possible was as boring as shit.  I'd say Killua was the only interesting part of the arc, but he didn't even do anything notable.  And having the bomber guy's abilities activate when he explains it was just PIS.

And at least the training in the tower had some substance to it.  Though not a lot because I really am kind of tired of chi that can make you do anything concept.



Swajio said:


> I can kinda agree with this. With the exception of Razor, GI was boring. The Chimera and York Shin arcs made up for it though.



York Shin, barring Kurapica vs Ubo (which was the only good part of the entire series) was average at best.  The guy who always threatened to draw his sword pissed me off.  Hell, I didn't really like anyone in the Ryodan except Hisoka.  And he's not even in it.

Chimera arc was looking reasonable.  But then Gon and Killua get bitch slapped aside for another training arc, and that's where I just got pissed off and quit.

I don't see the appeal of this series at all.  I gave it a chance because that's what I tell everyone else to do with One Piece.  I went through the first arc fine enough, though had to push myself.  I finally make it to Greed Island.  And halfway through it, I realize that every character would fit very well on Yugioh GX with their love and knowledge of cards.  Chimera arc comes along, and it didn't save it enough for me to care.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 6, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I hate sports manga so why would I think any of them as being "good?"
> 
> and One Piece has always been on the same level as FMA and HxH _*in hell*_.



fixed for you.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 6, 2008)

Masaki said:


> It didn't even feel like a training arc to me.  It was just do something, get card, dance around, repeat process.  I was hoping the cards would make the combat interesting but all it did was just affect other people's cards.  Most retarded card system ever.  The fact that their strategy revolved around having as many of one card as possible was as boring as shit.  I'd say Killua was the only interesting part of the arc, but he didn't even do anything notable.  And having the bomber guy's abilities activate when he explains it was just PIS.
> 
> And at least the training in the tower had some substance to it.  Though not a lot because I really am kind of tired of chi that can make you do anything concept.
> 
> ...



at least you truly give valid reasons for not liking HxH and not just spouting bs.  Though you are like one of the few people that doesn't like this series.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 6, 2008)

The problem with HxH is that the villains are much more interesting than the heroes and that Leorio and Kurapica have fallen off the face of the planet apparently which leaves us with Gon (who is IMO a worse main character than Naruto, Part 1 not Part 2 of course) and Killua (who just can't carry the series on his own).


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 6, 2008)

Masaki said:


> It didn't even feel like a training arc to me.  It was just do something, get card, dance around, repeat process.  I was hoping the cards would make the combat interesting but all it did was just affect other people's cards.  Most retarded card system ever.  The fact that their strategy revolved around having as many of one card as possible was as boring as shit.  I'd say Killua was the only interesting part of the arc, but he didn't even do anything notable.  And having the bomber guy's abilities activate when he explains it was just PIS.
> 
> And at least the training in the tower had some substance to it.  Though not a lot because I really am kind of tired of chi that can make you do anything concept.



What are you talking about? The card part was second fiddle to Bisque training Gon and Killua throughout the entire freakin' arc. Also Killua pwned everyone in the Hunter Exam that was notable in and of  itself.

Overall though the only thing the card game was for was to give Gon a clue to where Gin was. It's not Gon's fault though that his father is a complete douchebag.

Greed Island was more than just the card game. Heck I even enjoyed the fucking dodgeball game.

and for the record I think Gon is a great main character. I like him more than I ever liked Naruto or Ichigo for that matter.


----------



## Masaki (Jun 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> What are you talking about? The card part was second fiddle to Bisque training Gon and Killua throughout the entire freakin' arc. Also Killua pwned everyone in the Hunter Exam that was notable in and of  itself.
> 
> Overall though the only thing the card game was for was to give Gon a clue to where Gin was. It's not Gon's fault though that his father is a complete douchebag.
> 
> ...



Yeah, but the entire point of the arc was to just win the card game moreso than the training.  All we got was Gon's rock-paper-scissors (Dragonball anyone?) and Killua's lightning, which while a huge step didn't take as long as the card games did.  And I forgot that Killua got his license during this arc (as it happened in the irl).

In the end, I wonder if we'll ever even meet the kid's dad at the rate Togashi's going at.  But nonetheless, having Accompany not target himself was just retarded.

The dodgeball game was so-so.  Nothing that amazing or epic.  Not to mention that the final fight of the arc against the bomber really couldn't be taken too seriously because of his card obsession and because he looked a bit too generic (and his powers didn't have a huge amount of variety, unlike characters who kick ass like Hisoka).  

As far as I'm concerned, Killua is the main character to me.  He has much more depth and common sense while still not being too godly.  Gon really is not a good main character, and the only reason he beats Naruto (who actually wins more of his own fights) is because he has is able to make people see the light in his eyes.  Ichigo would be more kickass if he wasn't another Yusuke.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 7, 2008)

How can you not like Kuroro. If nothing else you should like Kuroro.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 7, 2008)

well Masaki you do know that the whole card obsession thing was due to people's actual greed and thinking that they were gonna get some huge valuable reward at the end if they gained every card. I mean the whole card obsession makes sense at that point when you think about it.


----------



## MakeEmum (Jun 7, 2008)

Current chapter of One Piece >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Current chapter of Naruto, I just "redden" both


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 7, 2008)




----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 7, 2008)

it would seem that someone will survive that class 100 punch.....


----------



## Fang (Jun 7, 2008)

Hey Naruto. Here's a convient power-up, eat a genjutsu crow. Not only is this a lackluster and utterly nonsensical form of getting a stupid power-up, but it is derived from eating a god damn crow.

Also, let's completely contradict the Uchiha Massacre by making stupid additional scenes like kid Sasuke hurting Itachi.

Holy shit Kishimoto.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 7, 2008)

Greed Island came about from Togashi's stupid fascination with Rpgs, and GI is for most the  least favourite arc of the series but Bisque, Killua and Bomber made up for it all. As for the Chimera ant arc, it was slow to begin with but its recently been kicking ass, the invasion of the palace, Yuppi v Shoot/Knuckle, King v Netero, Gon v Pitou, and even the inclusion of Zeno and Silva in to the arc will make sure it should be epic.



> Also, let's completely contradict the Uchiha Massacre by making stupid additional scenes like kid Sasuke hurting Itachi.



"I saw him cry, I guess I blocked it all out from the trauma"...fail


----------



## Fang (Jun 7, 2008)

Kid Sasuke > Teenage Itachi now. Absolutely pathetic Kishimoto.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 7, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Hey Naruto. Here's a convient power-up, eat a genjutsu crow. Not only is this a lackluster and utterly nonsensical form of getting a stupid power-up, but it is derived from eating a god damn crow.
> 
> Also, let's completely contradict the Uchiha Massacre by making stupid additional scenes like kid Sasuke hurting Itachi.
> 
> Holy shit Kishimoto.



You forgot that it's also half of itachi's power ZOMG


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 7, 2008)

Lol Sasuke, "Im choosing my own path now" such idiocy, your choosing the path that Madara so easily manipulated you in to choosing


----------



## HugeGuy (Jun 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> You forgot that it's also half of itachi's power ZOMG


Lol, Naruto powerups are really losing their values nowadays.....The only thing more ridiculous that I can think of is Kendo Kenpachi but hey, at least if you go back and read, Kenpachi never fought with both his hands before. Consistency. 

And well, yeah I can't find much to complain about OP and still stay valid. No one can it seems anyway. But if it's the OPtards with their "superior-than-thou" attitude then it's a whole different story and I don't want to start a flamewar here.............wait, this thread is 27 pages long already.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 7, 2008)

He didn't get half of Itachi's power did he? I assume its to fight against genjutsu otherwise thats stupid (more stupid than its already).


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 7, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> He didn't get half of Itachi's power did he? I assume its to fight against genjutsu otherwise thats stupid (more stupid than its already).



well that's what it said. Itachi transferred half of his power to Naruto but hopes Naruto never has to use it.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 7, 2008)

Oh great, Kishimoto should just kill himself, this is what happens when a mediocre mangaka thinks he's a great writer.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 7, 2008)

HugeGuy said:


> Lol, Naruto powerups are really losing their values nowadays.....The only thing more ridiculous that I can think of is Kendo Kenpachi but hey, at least if you go back and read, Kenpachi never fought with both his hands before. Consistency.
> 
> And well, yeah I can't find much to complain about OP and still stay valid. No one can it seems anyway. But if it's the OPtards with their "superior-than-thou" attitude then it's a whole different story and I don't want to start a flamewar here.............wait, this thread is 27 pages long already.



Sometimes I think OP fans are within their rights to have that superior than thou attitude. I mean considering the amount of people that have a "naruto is a masterpiece. One Piece is shit" attitude. Can you really blame One Piece fans for gaining a superiority complex for their series considering people call it immature, kiddy, ugly, stupid, bad writing, etc. when saying why they don't like it compared to Naruto or Bleach?


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 7, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the biggest themes in Naruto to show that hard work can surpass natural genius talent? 

And now Kishi gives more ridiculous power ups to Naruto from Itachi of all people.


----------



## Fang (Jun 7, 2008)

~Shin~ said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the biggest themes in Naruto to show that hard work can surpass natural genius talent?





> And now Kishi gives more ridiculous power ups to Naruto from Itachi of all people.



Worse of all it completely shits on and downright ignores Naruto's Taijuu Kage Bunshin training on Elemental and Spatial Composition Chakra during the Immortal's Arc.

All that hard work and effort and it gets completely ruined by Kishimoto giving him a illogical, ill-conceived power-up.


----------



## Mr. All Sunday (Jun 7, 2008)

regardless of your opinion toward those two, anyone who thinks Naruto is better than either One Piece or Bleach at this point _must_ be retarded


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Sometimes I think OP fans are within their rights to have that superior than thou attitude. I mean considering the amount of people that have a "naruto is a masterpiece. One Piece is shit" attitude. Can you really blame One Piece fans for gaining a superiority complex for their series considering people call it immature, kiddy, ugly, stupid, bad writing, etc. when saying why they don't like it compared to Naruto or Bleach?



Not really, you should be the bigger person and not let it bother you that someone has a different opinion (assuming whichever side has given the two series they're comparing a full chance. If you haven't read the majority of OP/Naruto/FMA/H x H/Bleach/etc., and you're calling it shit, STFU!). I mean, would you go around cons arguing with every person who thinks differently than you? It's not like Oda is this insecure guy who needs every manga/anime fan to love his series, yet some of his fans seem to act like that's the case. 

I mean, this is the MANGA forum. If some noob was starting threads on the OP forum about how he thinks it sucks, then I could understand the attitudes. Here, I just think, "guys, it's the manga section. Everyone should be entitled to their own opinion. This isn't goddamn 1984 where you can act like Big Brother and 'correct' anyone who thinks differently".

Both attitudes (holier-than-thou, or mindless flaming) reek of a "I'm trying to tick certain people off" attitude. And that's why this fail of a thread is 27 pages long.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 7, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> Not really, you should be the bigger person and not let it bother you that someone has a different opinion (assuming whichever side has given the two series they're comparing a full chance. If you haven't read the majority of OP/Naruto/FMA/H x H/Bleach/etc., and you're calling it shit, STFU!). I mean, would you go around cons arguing with every person who thinks differently than you? It's not like Oda is this insecure guy who needs every manga/anime fan to love his series, yet some of his fans seem to act like that's the case.



Of course not and it has nothing to do with being bothered by someone having a different opinion. It stems mainly because those people who make such criticisms like that act like they know everything about the series and have read it when in fact they haven't. And yet they expect us not to do the same thing back to them. As far as I can see those ignorant people who pull stuff like that are really hypocritical. Not saying everyone does it and I'm not lumping the entire Naruto fandom together. After all I'm cool if a Naruto fan says it isn't their thing after trying it. It's just those people that say they won't even try One Piece cause they think it's shit and then try to make Naruto out to be superior by calling One Piece kiddy or ugly. Those are the kinds of people I can't stand.



Doom85 said:


> I mean, this is the MANGA forum. If some noob was starting threads on the OP forum about how he thinks it sucks, then I could understand the attitudes. Here, I just think, "guys, it's the manga section. Everyone should be entitled to their own opinion. This isn't goddamn 1984 where you can act like Big Brother and 'correct' anyone who thinks differently".



It's happened several times in the OP sub forum. Most of the Naruto fans that posted in those threads were the ignorant types I just described and every single thread ended up closed cause those ignorant fans whined that the OP fans were being mean to them and not respecting their opinion for thinking Naruto is the best ever while One Piece is the biggest piece of immature kiddy shit they've ever seen without even reading it, and that was when they weren't claiming the art was just plain ugly compared to Naruto's. I mean there probably wouldn't be any attitude on the OP side at all if not for instances like that. 



Doom85 said:


> Both attitudes (holier-than-thou, or mindless flaming) reek of a "I'm trying to tick certain people off" attitude. And that's why this fail of a thread is 27 pages long.



Well in order for there to not be any huge fandom induced arguments any criticism towards any series would have to be made in an extremely nice manner. As I said I'm cool with Naruto and Bleach fans who have read One Piece but don't see it as their thing. It's fine because at least they gave it a chance and they aren't talking shit about it.

I guess those who criticize Naruto and Bleach could stand to make nicer criticisms as well such as "I used to read it but I just don't like it anymore" perhaps that would be a better option?


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Of course not and it has nothing to do with being bothered by someone having a different opinion. It stems mainly because those people who make such criticisms like that act like they know everything about the series and have read it when in fact they haven't. And yet they expect us not to do the same thing back to them. As far as I can see those ignorant people who pull stuff like that are really hypocritical. Not saying everyone does it and I'm not lumping the entire Naruto fandom together. After all I'm cool if a Naruto fan says it isn't their thing after trying it. It's just those people that say they won't even try One Piece cause they think it's shit and then try to make Naruto out to be superior by calling One Piece kiddy or ugly. Those are the kinds of people I can't stand.
> 
> It's happened several times in the OP sub forum. Most of the Naruto fans that posted in those threads were the ignorant types I just described and every single thread ended up closed cause those ignorant fans whined that the OP fans were being mean to them and not respecting their opinion for thinking Naruto is the best ever while One Piece is the biggest piece of immature kiddy shit they've ever seen without even reading it, and that was when they weren't claiming the art was just plain ugly compared to Naruto's. I mean there probably wouldn't be any attitude on the OP side at all if not for instances like that.
> 
> ...



-I understand, but again, you (and everyone) should just try to ignore people like that. Personally, I think narutoforums should adopt IMDb's use of an "ignore" feature, it works wonders on IMDb and cuts down on the B.S. you have to get through to find the good stuff

-well, I stand corrected. I haven't been at this forum as long as some, and I never noticed Narutards bugging people on the OP section, but apparently there has been activity in the past. Like I said, narutoforums should really consider an "ignore" feature, forum users who are here to make worthwhile discussions shouldn't have to put up with mindless ranting when most of us are here to try and talk about anime/manga in a somewhat-friendly manner. But rarely is that the case. If it makes things seem even, the Naruto forum on IMDb is occasionally invaded by some hate-filled DBZ fanboy(s) who can't fathom someone enjoying a shonen that isn't DBZ.

-well, that's how I try to criticize a series, by saying, "I lost interest"/"I gave it a serious try, but it wasn't my thing"/etc. Putting down every aspect of the series in question never did anything for me, I've got better things to do with my time than try to upset people who still are enjoying that series. I'm human though, and can get a little heated, but never to the point where I'm just trying to start a flame war (I'm not accusing you of that either, but obviously all sides have their fair share of those flamewar-lovers)

And really, you know who the winners in all of this are? Those who enjoy the series. Because they're enjoying something that others can't find a way to. "Ignorance is bliss", and hell, there are times where I wish I was ignorant to certain series. Those who are having a good time with a series are obviously....um....having a good time (duh), whereas those who aren't having a good time, well, you see my point. Obviously, there are arguable exceptions if it's something pretty much everyone hated (I'm talking EVERYONE, like Batman and Robin, or Highlander 2 level), but I think in most cases, this argument works. So what if I hated X-men 3? If others didn't hate it, then they had a enjoyable experience, and I'm not going to mess with that.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 7, 2008)

> should just try to ignore people like that. Personally, I think narutoforums should adopt IMDb's use of an "ignore" feature,



Well the forum does have that feature, just put that user in your ignore list.

As for your argument Doom, do you really think half the fans would enjoy this place if you couldn't flame other people's opinions? It happens here alot, don't try to preach because most people have enough common sense, its just that theres alot that would rather argue or flame than accept others opinion.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 7, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> As for your argument Doom, do you really think half the fans would enjoy this place if you couldn't flame other people's opinions? It happens here alot, don't try to preach because most people have enough common sense, its just that theres alot that would rather argue or flame than accept others opinion.



I don't see why not. If people really have an obsession about flaming, then there should be a section where people can go nuts with very little restrictions. It would save the mods a whole lot of work.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 7, 2008)

> -I understand, but again, you (and everyone) should just try to ignore people like that. Personally, I think narutoforums should adopt IMDb's use of an "ignore" feature, it works wonders on IMDb and cuts down on the B.S. you have to get through to find the good stuff



The problem with the ignore feature is that you can still see the posts when you're not logged in and even if you are sometimes you're tempted into looking at the post anyways. The ignore system is very flawed in my opinion. Especially since it really doesn't solve the problem.


> -well, I stand corrected. I haven't been at this forum as long as some, and I never noticed Narutards bugging people on the OP section, but apparently there has been activity in the past. Like I said, narutoforums should really consider an "ignore" feature, forum users who are here to make worthwhile discussions shouldn't have to put up with mindless ranting when most of us are here to try and talk about anime/manga in a somewhat-friendly manner. But rarely is that the case. If it makes things seem even, the Naruto forum on IMDb is occasionally invaded by some hate-filled DBZ fanboy(s) who can't fathom someone enjoying a shonen that isn't DBZ.



And here I thought the DBZ fandom turned into the Naruto fandom when Naruto became the new US anime fad. But I agree that people who are here for worthwhile discussion shouldn't have to put up with that kind of shit.


> -well, that's how I try to criticize a series, by saying, "I lost interest"/"I gave it a serious try, but it wasn't my thing"/etc. Putting down every aspect of the series in question never did anything for me, I've got better things to do with my time than try to upset people who still are enjoying that series. I'm human though, and can get a little heated, but never to the point where I'm just trying to start a flame war (I'm not accusing you of that either, but obviously all sides have their fair share of those flamewar-lovers)



Well heck I know I can get heated and I speak bad of the Naruto series a lot but that's because I used to enjoy it and now I don't anymore. To me that feels a little different from the attitude of "I haven't read it but I know it sucks just by looking at the cover" most Naruto fans use when criticizing One Piece. Even so I suppose it's just as wrong for One Piece fans who've read Naruto to criticize it as harshly as we do. Even though I'm sure most of us feel our opinions are a little more valid considering we've read the series we're  trashing while the One Piece haters tend to prove a lot of the time they haven't read it at all.



> And really, you know who the winners in all of this are? Those who enjoy the series. Because they're enjoying something that others can't find a way to. "Ignorance is bliss", and hell, there are times where I wish I was ignorant to certain series. Those who are having a good time with a series are obviously....um....having a good time (duh), whereas those who aren't having a good time, well, you see my point. Obviously, there are arguable exceptions if it's something pretty much everyone hated (I'm talking EVERYONE, like Batman and Robin, or Highlander 2 level), but I think in most cases, this argument works. So what if I hated X-men 3? If others didn't hate it, then they had a enjoyable experience, and I'm not going to mess with that.



And there's nothing wrong with enjoying your series or anything, but still there are lines that shouldn't be crossed then if you're going to say that ignorance is bliss. After all saying something you haven't read sucks while saying your favorite series is the best literary work ever written is just asking for trouble. Sometimes ignorance isn't always a good thing.


----------



## Nae'blis (Jun 7, 2008)

On this forum, considering it's a Naruto forum to begin with


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 7, 2008)

Nae'blis said:


> On this forum, considering it's a Naruto forum to begin with



Nobody cares if this is a Naruto forum don't you get that?


----------



## Masaki (Jun 8, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> How can you not like Kuroro. If nothing else you should like Kuroro.



I like Hisoka and Killua.  No one else.  Kuroro ended up as Kurapika's bitch.  At least Ubo went down like a man.



Aethos said:


> well Masaki you do know that the whole card obsession thing was due to people's actual greed and thinking that they were gonna get some huge valuable reward at the end if they gained every card. I mean the whole card obsession makes sense at that point when you think about it.



It did make sense, but it just looked so stupid (plus Gon and Killua dancing around every 3 pages or so) annoyed me.



~Shin~ said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the biggest themes in Naruto to show that hard work can surpass natural genius talent?
> 
> And now Kishi gives more ridiculous power ups to Naruto from Itachi of all people.



Yeah, the recent power ups are through "hey here you go; free power".  I wouldn't be surprised if Naruto has the Sharingan now.



Aethos said:


> Nobody cares if this is a Naruto forum don't you get that?



Most of the members who the average person knows doesn't even like Naruto.  Though this is from a Blenderite's point of view.


----------



## Tash (Jun 8, 2008)

From an OBDers view I can say most also don't enjoy Naruto. I'd say the consensus for most of the forum is, it was good, but is not bad.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 8, 2008)

How did you like Hisoka staring at Gon and Killua's arses?


----------



## Jotun (Jun 8, 2008)

hay guyz. nic tread

lol anyways

I think I will list reasons I love OP

-Oda likes his manga, he likes his anime
-Color spreads, oh so good
-Afros, Skeletons, Poop
-Stuff may be predictable like who is going to fight the main baddie, but still very fun to read
-OP has so many fucking gratifying moments, for example, Bellamy
-Content equivalent of 10 Naruto chapters 
-Unique/Fresh art style, love the designs
-Luffy, Zoro, Franky, Sogeking, Chopper, Brooke, Robin

Naruto part 1 was better than OP up until Arlong Arc, which was when I got hooked to OP, but was still overall really good. Naruto part 2. I enjoyed the Gaara arc somewhat. Everything else just keeps irritating me, there will be 1 ounce of faith and then Kishi destroys it. I still like Naruto, but its potential was so huge :/

Bleach was fun/good/cool up until SS ended. I could overlook the cliches and random mid battle power ups, but I feel it just keeps going downhill. Bleach has some delicious char designs even if they are abit redundant lol

OP is the spiritual successor to early Dragonball imo. My fav weekly release manga by far and has it's own special tier in my heart


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 8, 2008)

man, this week's chapter of Naruto pwned shounen jump. How does Kishi sama do it.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 8, 2008)

> man, this week's chapter of Naruto pwned shounen jump. How does Kishi sama do it.



Troll, OP this week was awesome, it bitch slapped Naruto, even Bleach was better.


----------



## MakeEmum (Jun 8, 2008)

Aethos said:


> The problem with the ignore feature is that you can still see the posts when you're not logged in and even if you are sometimes you're tempted into looking at the post anyways. The ignore system is very flawed in my opinion. Especially since it really doesn't solve the problem.



Well of course not, your User settings are on when you don't logged on to your Username, you have 50x more posts than I do and I'm almost always logged on
ready for posting. And how can you say that the Ignore system is flawed and you're looking at the posts you ignore? it's like saying  your Safe is flawed cause you can unlock it and look inside


----------



## Fang (Jun 8, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> man, this week's chapter of Naruto pwned shounen jump. How does Kishi sama do it.



If wishes and hopes were the fuel of reality, but they aren't. And the new Naruto chapter wasn't quality at all.


----------



## Yoburi (Jun 8, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> man, this week's chapter of Naruto pwned shounen jump. How does Kishi sama do it.



What are you Mad!? It was a damn flash back besides Op was better this week.


----------



## Stan Lee (Jun 8, 2008)

Hope this thread doesn't become like the OP vs Naruto thread.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 8, 2008)

Put this in the manga complaints thread but I thought it was deserving of being here too

"So I hear Sasuke's going to attack Konoha."
"Yeah this is really going to help the manga."
"Why's that?"
"It's going to help the writing to become even worse!'
"Dohohohohohohohohohohoho!"

"I hear Bleach has become a lot better lately"
"oh yeah?"
"Yeah this flashback has been really refreshing."
"After Ichigo vs Grimmjaw anything would be!"
"Dohohohohohohohohohoho!"





MakeEmum said:


> Well of course not, your User settings are on when you don't logged on to your Username, you have 50x more posts than I do and I'm almost always logged on
> ready for posting. And how can you say that the Ignore system is flawed and you're looking at the posts you ignore? it's like saying  your Safe is flawed cause you can unlock it and look inside



Well if you're ignoring them why would you wanna look at their posts? It is diferent than a safe to be honest.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 8, 2008)

I felt a great sense of satisfaction seeing Luffy punch that Tenryuubito bastard.

Then I felt great shame seeing Naruto deepthroat a crow.

Then I felt a little better seeing the Bleach flashbacks.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 8, 2008)

I agree. One Piece was really great and it pwned shounen jump. How can anyone think this weeks Naruto chapter was good? It was complete shit.


----------



## Megadoomer (Jun 8, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> man, this week's chapter of Naruto pwned shounen jump. How does Kishi sama do it.



...

I hope you aren't serious.

All this week gave us was:
1) Naruto's back in Konoha
2) the author practically says that Naruto can't beat Sasuke without another Uchiha's help
3) the odds are, Hinata, Kiba, and Shino aren't going to have a role in the story for a few years
4) Sasuke confirming his decision to attack Konoha, despite the fact that his brother sacrificed himself to safe Konoha

What was good about this chapter?


----------



## Heiji-sama (Jun 8, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I felt a great sense of satisfaction seeing Luffy punch that Tenryuubito bastard.
> 
> Then I felt great shame seeing Naruto deepthroat a crow.
> 
> Then I felt a little better seeing the Bleach flashbacks.



ahaha that is very true


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 9, 2008)

Megadoomer said:


> ...
> 
> I hope you aren't serious.
> 
> ...



Sasuke was in it.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 9, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Sasuke was in it.



sasuke sama managed to take itachi's headband off after awaakening his sharingan, despite the fact that itachi has 3 tomoe. sasuke sama is awesome and kishi sama is awesome for showing why the headband was like that in the beginning. that wasnt a retcon this was something kishi sama thought up while he was writing his story in mama kishi sama's womb. he's a genius


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 9, 2008)

Another week passes while Kishi pisses all over what used to be a good manga, hard work can go fuck itself


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 9, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> sasuke sama managed to take itachi's headband off after awaakening his sharingan, despite the fact that itachi has 3 tomoe. sasuke sama is awesome and kishi sama is awesome for showing why the headband was like that in the beginning. that wasnt a retcon this was something kishi sama thought up while he was writing his story in mama kishi sama's womb. he's a genius


Indeed, this is why kishi sama is above mediocre mangaka like oda, toriyama and togashi. Kishi sama and Kubo are in a different league altogather.



CrimemasterGogo said:


> Another week passes while Kishi pisses all over what used to be a good manga,


what are you on about, this is some of Kishimoto sensei best work. This week's chapter just proved how amazing a mangaka kishi sama trully is. 

His genius is unmatched



> hard work can go fuck itself


I agree


----------



## Masaki (Jun 9, 2008)

Care to explain to the class _why_ it was a good chapter?


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 9, 2008)

Masaki said:


> Care to explain to the class _why_ it was a good chapter?


Sasuke sama was in it


----------



## Berserkhawk z (Jun 9, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Indeed, this is why kishi sama is above mediocre mangaka like toriyama



Did you just call DBZ mediocre compared to Naruto, that my good sir is Blashpemy


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 9, 2008)

berserkhawk z said:


> Did you just call DBZ mediocre compared to Naruto, that my good sir is Blashpemy


every manga is mediocre before naruto

[except Tsubasa chronicle. syaoran, Kurogane and fai are so GAR pek]


----------



## Berserkhawk z (Jun 9, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> every manga is mediocre before naruto
> 
> [except Tsubasa chronicle. syaoran, Kurogane and fai are so GAR pek]



Blashpemy, Blashpemy, Blashpemy

I like Naruto as much as the next person but without Toriyama's influence there would be no Naruto

Plus DBZ just kicked ass


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 9, 2008)

berserkhawk z said:


> Blashpemy, Blashpemy, Blashpemy
> 
> I like Naruto as much as the next person but without Toriyama's influence there would be no Naruto
> 
> Plus DBZ just kicked ass


Just cuz DBZ was influantial, it doesn't make it better than all other manga. 

Naruto is an incredibly epic manga, with one of the greatest main Characters in shounen history(Uchiha sasuke). The level of emotion, the intricate storyline (with a lot of intresting twists) and the great array of diverse and well developed characters, makes this manga rise well above its peers and puts it at the top of the manga world.

there is no manga that can match Naruto in terms of story, plot, character development and comedy. Naruto is a perfect manga.


----------



## Berserkhawk z (Jun 9, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> there is no manga that can match Naruto in terms of story, plot, character development and comedy. Naruto is a perfect manga.



Berserk just thought i'd throw that in

Cause Guts is da man


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 9, 2008)

berserkhawk z said:


> I like Naruto as much as the next person but without Toriyama's influence there would be no Naruto



Superman came first for superheroes. Please don't tell me you can look at me with a straight face, and tell me that Superman > Spider-man, Batman, X-men, etc.

Not saying you can't consider DBZ the best, but the "it came first" card is overplayed.

Not that I'm taking sides with the disturbed Sasuke fanboy.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 9, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Indeed, this is why kishi sama is above mediocre mangaka like oda, toriyama and togashi. Kishi sama and Kubo are in a different league altogather.



Excuse me?  Kubo? It's one thing to be a Naruto-fan, but a Bleach-fanboy is in a different league of idiocy.



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> what are you on about, this is some of Kishimoto sensei best work. This week's chapter just proved how amazing a mangaka kishi sama trully is.



Please tell me this is sarcasm.



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> His genius is unmatched



By Kubo, maybe. By any rational person who can give a shit about a published work, not really. 



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I agree



This is DEFINITELY sarcasm.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 9, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> It's one thing to be a Naruto-fan, but a Bleach-fanboy is in a different league of idiocy.



How so? It should be the other way around with the way Naruto is going now as far as i am concerned.


----------



## HugeGuy (Jun 9, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Excuse me?  Kubo? It's one thing to be a Naruto-fan, but a Bleach-fanboy is in a different league of idiocy.


Wait, so now it's auto-idiocy to anyone who's a Bleach fanboy? Even if it's the 90% of the fanbase who wisely choose to stay in their own subforum, minding their own business and never even intended to come out and get caught in this stupid fiery battle Naruto and One Piece?


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 9, 2008)

HugeGuy said:


> Wait, so now it's auto-idiocy to anyone who's a Bleach fanboy? Even if it's the 90% of the fanbase who wisely choose to stay in their own subforum, minding their own business and never even intended to come out and get caught in this stupid fiery battle Naruto and One Piece?



Fanboy. I didn't mean any Bleach fan (Believe me, I used to be one), I meant any idiotic Bleach fan who decided to start saying Kubo's recent writing is better than, I don't know, Cowboy Beebop?

Besides, I don't see anyone jumping down my neck for the Naruto comment. Double standards aren't a good thing.

And Bleach fans can be just as bad as OPtards and Narutards. Just look at Narutomania.

Black Leg Sanji: The reason people like Bleach currently is because Kubo is doing a series of pointless flashbacks that have no impact on the plot. Once he gets back to the main story, it will all go down the toilet again. Naruto's worst is nothing compared to the shitty Byakuya vs. Zommari fight.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 9, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> The reason people like Bleach currently is because Kubo is doing a series of pointless flashbacks that have no impact on the plot. Once he gets back to the main story, it will all go down the toilet again. Naruto's worst is nothing compared to the shitty Byakuya vs. Zommari fight.



Pointless flashbacks? So revealing info that has been unknown for a long time about the Vaizard, Aizen and Urahara etc. is not important to the plot? Sure..

And you dont know if it will go down the toilet when its back to the war again, we need to see how it turns out first.

Seriously, nothing is as shitty as current Naruto. Its the most horrible i have ever seen.


----------



## HugeGuy (Jun 9, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Fanboy. I didn't mean any Bleach fan (Believe me, I used to be one), I meant any idiotic Bleach fan who decided to start saying Kubo's recent writing is better than, I don't know, Cowboy Beebop?


Is there truly any Bleachtard at that level. By "that level" I mean at least Narutard level. Coz from my impression on this board, Bleachtards are actually more moderate than Narutards and OPtards(at least the ones in OBD, OP sections ones seems nice too). The Bleach fanbase actually managed to went through the HM fiasco and laughed their way through. They were capable of poking fun at their favourite series and I'm seeing them still enjoying themselves right now.



> Besides, I don't see anyone jumping down my neck for the Naruto comment. Double standards aren't a good thing.


Heheheh, u got me.  But I'm just gonna defend Bleach primarily coz the way I see it is, this is just another Naruto/OP battle. And Bleach is just being unfairly dragged into this coz it's considered to be part of the Trinity(which itself is made up by the fans too). I mean, hey if you two fanbases want to nuke each other, don't drag another series into this just for the sake of it. 



> And Bleach fans can be just as bad as OPtards and Narutards. Just look at Narutomania.


I haven't check out Narutomania for a long time. Not as interesting as NF. But I'm just speaking for the Bleach fanbase here. No point in using them as an example when their kind are almost nonexistant here, amirite?



> Black Leg Sanji: The reason people like Bleach currently is because Kubo is doing a series of pointless flashbacks that have no impact on the plot. Once he gets back to the main story, it will all go down the toilet again. Naruto's worst is nothing compared to the shitty Byakuya vs. Zommari fight.


No really pointless IMO. This could potentially unwrapped the mystery concerning Urahara's exile, Hougyoku, hollowfication and most importantly Division 0. Well, I somehow just have faith in Kubo even if it's entirely baseless. Guess I'm a Bleachtard after all.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 9, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Just cuz DBZ was influantial, it doesn't make it better than all other manga.
> 
> Naruto is an incredibly epic manga, with one of the greatest main Characters in shounen history(Uchiha sasuke). The level of emotion, the intricate storyline (with a lot of intresting twists) and the great array of diverse and well developed characters, makes this manga rise well above its peers and puts it at the top of the manga world.
> 
> there is no manga that can match Naruto in terms of story, plot, character development and comedy. Naruto is a perfect manga.


----------



## HugeGuy (Jun 9, 2008)

^Shin, is he a real Narutard or just faking it?

Coz my sarcasm meter is off the chart seeing his post.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 9, 2008)

He's not faking it, unfortunately. He's one of the genuine tards of Sasuke along with his buddies like Seiko.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 9, 2008)

Why are you knuckleheads still replying to Sasuke Fanboy everyone knows he's clearly a try hard troll

You nincompoops

You big dummies


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 9, 2008)

HugeGuy said:


> Is there truly any Bleachtard at that level. By "that level" I mean at least Narutard level. Coz from my impression on this board, Bleachtards are actually more moderate than Narutards and OPtards(at least the ones in OBD, OP sections ones seems nice too). The Bleach fanbase actually managed to went through the HM fiasco and laughed their way through. They were capable of poking fun at their favourite series and I'm seeing them still enjoying themselves right now.



Well, I guess these forums are clear. I was just referring to Bleach fanboys everywhere, not just on these forums.



HugeGuy said:


> Heheheh, u got me.  But I'm just gonna defend Bleach primarily coz the way I see it is, this is just another Naruto/OP battle. And Bleach is just being unfairly dragged into this coz it's considered to be part of the Trinity(which itself is made up by the fans too). I mean, hey if you two fanbases want to nuke each other, don't drag another series into this just for the sake of it.



It's more like OPtards bashing Bleach and Naruto for laughs, but I see your point.  Personally, I just hate a few fanboys like Sonic.



HugeGuy said:


> I haven't check out Narutomania for a long time. Not as interesting as NF. But I'm just speaking for the Bleach fanbase here. No point in using them as an example when their kind are almost nonexistant here, amirite?



I guess you win there.



HugeGuy said:


> No really pointless IMO. This could potentially unwrapped the mystery concerning Urahara's exile, Hougyoku, hollowfication and most importantly Division 0. Well, I somehow just have faith in Kubo even if it's entirely baseless. Guess I'm a Bleachtard after all.



Possibly... I wonder if it's some kind of virus created by the Hougyoku. Urahara's exile would be nice to know about, but it's pretty obvious it's going to be about the transforming of the vaizards. 

By the way, it's nice to talk with someone reasonably for once. Bleachtards and OPtards usually get along better than Narutotards do. (Yes, I consider myself an OPtard.)


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 9, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Just cuz DBZ was influantial, it doesn't make it better than all other manga.
> 
> Naruto is an incredibly epic manga, with one of the greatest main Characters in shounen history(Uchiha sasuke). The level of emotion, the intricate storyline (with a lot of intresting twists) and the great array of diverse and well developed characters, makes this manga rise well above its peers and puts it at the top of the manga world.
> 
> there is no manga that can match Naruto in terms of story, plot, character development and comedy. Naruto is a perfect manga.


If Sasuke wasn't in it, you'd be calling it a piece of shit. "Great" main characters don't run off to any old man who promises power. "Great" main characters don't get their minds twisted into working with the man who killed his clan. "Great" main characters don't attempt to kill their friends like the rest of his douchebag clan. This manga is far from epic, you're only saying this because you're able to get together with friends for an Uchiha circle jerk. Naruto is perfect? Read JJBA(real man's manga), Fairy Tail(last few chapters had lol worthy moments), One Piece(lol Eneru), basically everything that isn't Naruto. I'm not sorry to say this, but your entire NF history can be defined with one picture:



Sadly, you're serious about everything.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 9, 2008)

I don't know why you're bothering responding to him.


----------



## Berserkhawk z (Jun 9, 2008)

Yeah Trolls are like Freddy Krueger if you don't acknowledge them they go away


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 9, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> [except Tsubasa chronicle. syaoran, Kurogane and fai are so GAR pek]


Even though you're trolling, that is going too far. 

Yaoi cumfest bishies are not GAR, they are GAY.

Any male from JJBA has way more GAR in his pinky toe than all of CLAMP's characters combined (Even some of the women in that series do)


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 9, 2008)

berserkhawk z said:


> Yeah Trolls are like Freddy Krueger if you don't acknowledge them they go away



Who was the one that was arguing with him?

Oh that's right, you.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 9, 2008)

Can't we get him banned? He's becoming a nuisance.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 9, 2008)

Well, I've come to 2 conclusions about this troll. 

1. A flamingly homosexual guy
2. A rabid fangirl obsessed with yaoi and bishies

Take your pick cuz either one is equally valid.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 9, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> Can't we get him banned? He's becoming a nuisance.



Eh, Uchiha fans usually do something to get themselves banned. In the meantime, you could just put him on ignore like I've done with 50% of the Sasuke fandom...


----------



## Yorkman (Jun 9, 2008)

I don't like One Piece it's too immature for my taste, the drawing style is a real turn off it the most childish cartoony style I've ever sen in manga or anime. if it look more like bleach then I could take it more seriously, Luffy is also an idiot who only magically get smart when he's off his rocker during fights and then turns stupid again.

Even though naruto is a steaming pile now at least they actually have cool characters like Sasake, Neji and Gaara and Waaaay cooler villians than One Piece I mean Pain, Oro, Itachi are freaking awesome compare to that Clown dude, Fatguy with that Zipper mouth (I know he's in manga somewhere haven't read that far), and some strong large Bum called marshal teech or something he smashed some dude's face on the floor..wow nothing like naruto villians


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## kimber abarai (Jun 9, 2008)

XD i cant stand onepeice its annoying and you yet forget the good stuff people post about bleach and naruto...


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## C. Hook (Jun 9, 2008)

Yorkman said:


> I don't like One Piece it's too immature for my taste, the drawing style is a real turn off it the most childish cartoony style I've ever sen in manga or anime. if it look more like bleach then I could take it more seriously, Luffy is also an idiot who only magically get smart when he's off his rocker during fights and then turns stupid again.



My brother actually put forward an argument that Luffy is autistic, and just doesn't know how to relate to other people or events. According to his idea, Luffy's always smart, it's just that he doesn't know how to express it properly.

Aside from that, most people think Luffy is smart, he just sees the world differently from other people.

By the way, Bleach is possibly one of the crappiest manga I have ever read. Its generic backrounds and lack of story make it worse than ERAGON for me. When I say I hate something more than Eragon, it means I really hate it.



Yorkman said:


> Even though naruto is a steaming pile now at least they actually have cool characters like Sasake, Neji and Gaara and Waaaay cooler villians than One Piece I mean Pain, Oro, Itachi are freaking awesome compare to that Clown dude, Fatguy with that Zipper mouth (I know he's in manga somewhere haven't read that far), and some strong large Bum called marshal teech or something he smashed some dude's face on the floor..wow nothing like naruto villians



Heh... Heh... Oh my god, did you just say that Sasuke was cooler than fucking Blackbeard? I believe this is a new level of funniness. Aside from that, can you list some reasons why Sir Crocodile (Who tried to blow up a city with people still fighting inside) and Arlong (Who shot a little girl's mother in front of her for no reason other than to satisfy his desire for power) are less cool than... Itachi? Seriously dude, watch Silence of the Lambs. I guarantee Hannibal will shit on that little crow-feeding bastard.

Besides, it's obvious you haven't even looked at Once Piece more than five seconds. One of the guys you mentioned was a comedic villain, another was a member of a quirky miniboss squad, and the last was a powerful man who murdered a crewmate just to get the ability to control gravity.


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## Nuzzie (Jun 9, 2008)

Moria and Ryuuma alone are way cooler than all of those you listed.

Moria: Link removed 
         Link removed

Ryuuma: Link removed


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## Akatora (Jun 10, 2008)

Oda seem to generally make experimentation on the borders of Art acceptance.

Kubo seem to be doing so with the action part(making it more movie like) Like using 1 panel to show a sword, foot etc.

Perhaps you don't like the results of the experiments done on the art by Oda or the kind of director experiments done by Kubo.
Truth be told they both started out in no mans land regarding there respectful pick.

If anyone disagree, start explaining


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## Zetta (Jun 10, 2008)

Yorkman said:


> I don't like One Piece it's too immature for my taste, the drawing style is a real turn off it the most childish cartoony style I've ever sen in manga or anime. if it look more like bleach then I could take it more seriously, Luffy is also an idiot who only magically get smart when he's off his rocker during fights and then turns stupid again.
> 
> Even though naruto is a steaming pile now at least they actually have cool characters like Sasake, Neji and Gaara and Waaaay cooler villians than One Piece I mean Pain, Oro, Itachi are freaking awesome compare to that Clown dude, Fatguy with that Zipper mouth (I know he's in manga somewhere haven't read that far), and some strong large Bum called marshal teech or something he smashed some dude's face on the floor..wow nothing like naruto villians



You have pissed of GOD ENEL!


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 10, 2008)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> If Sasuke wasn't in it, you'd be calling it a piece of shit.


true



> "Great" main characters don't run off to any old man who promises power. "Great" main characters don't get their minds twisted into working with the man who killed his clan. "Great" main characters don't attempt to kill their friends like the rest of his douchebag clan.



Sasuke sama is the epitome of the shounen main character. he's setting new standards to which future shounen main characters will be judged by. Everything sasuke sama is doing rght now will be clonned and copied by future mangaka.




> This manga is far from epic,


nothing is more epic than this manga. Sasuke Vs Deidarra alone makes The lord of the rings trillogy look like a pile of shit.



> you're only saying this because you're able to get together with friends for an Uchiha circle jerk.


 *fap* *fap* *fap*


> Naruto is perfect? Read JJBA(real man's manga), Fairy Tail(last few chapters had lol worthy moments), One Piece(lol Eneru)


 already read all those mangas, they don't come close to a masterpiece like Naruto.




> Sadly, you're serious about everything.










C. Hook said:


> Excuse me?  Kubo? It's one thing to be a Naruto-fan, but a Bleach-fanboy is in a different league of idiocy.


Naruto pwns, Bleach pwns and Tsubasa pwns. There is no manga in the world that can stand up to these great works art.




> Please tell me this is sarcasm.


I'm always serious





Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Even though you're trolling, that is going too far.
> 
> Yaoi cumfest bishies are not GAR, they are GAY.


Those three are still the most GAR characters in manga history. u can hate all you want, it won't change the fact.



> Any male from JJBA has way more GAR in his pinky toe than all of CLAMP's characters combined (Even some of the women in that series do)


Princess Sakura's pussy is more GAR than all of JJBA combined.


----------



## Zetta (Jun 10, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> true
> 
> 
> 
> Sasuke sama is the epitome of the shounen main character. he's setting new standards to which future shounen main characters will be judged by. Everything sasuke sama is doing rght now will be clonned and copied by future mangaka.


Weeaboo suffix = fail.
Also, I didn't know emo,brooding,gullibility and massive failure was the new standard... Because Naruto is selling SO WELL in japan...OH SHI- wait. 



> nothing is more epic than this manga. Sasuke Vs Deidarra alone makes The lord of the rings trillogy look like a pile of shit.






> *fap* *fap* *fap*
> already read all those mangas, they don't come close to a masterpiece like Naruto.


Because JJBA isn't the second-best selling manga ever amirite?  It hasn't been refrenced outside of Japan right? I mean, it's not as if Hiro Nakamura from Heroes loves it. 



> Naruto pwns, Bleach pwns and Tsubasa pwns. There is no manga in the world that can stand up to these great works art.


You probably love Inuyasha too right? 



> I'm always serious


And apparently high...



> Those three are still the most GAR characters in manga history. u can hate all you want, it won't change the fact.


Oh please, Sakura is more GAR than all of them.



> Princess Sakura's pussy is more GAR than all of JJBA combined.


Oh gtfo....


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jun 10, 2008)

*Naruto/Bleach - OP*



Zephos said:


> You havn't even read it/watched it.
> 
> Your the stupidest person on the thread yet,


Well, I've seen and read a few chapters/episodes but the reason I side with Naruto is because it's more applicable to reality, or our life.​


C. Hook said:


> All around supported? I hope that was sarcasm. Currently, there's only one group of Naruto characters: THE UCHIHAS!


Point Taken, but they do leave room for development of other characters, in the sense that almost each villain has a developed background story and while they concentrate mostly on the Uchiha's, I must admit they have overlooked Gai's Team and Kurenai's team.​


C. Hook said:


> Realism? None of them are realistic, but in terms of realistic enviroments and personalities, One Piece wins by far. Water 7>Leaf Village.


I was looking for a realism that applied more to our society as a whole rather than just physical and character appeals. The story as a whole, with the dawn of war seems a bit more interwoven and closely spun off the coming of wars in the past. Kind of like how Full Metal Alchemist was loosely based on the War in Iraq but it could also be applied to 1904 Arab-French War.

I think in that it has a much more idealized sense of understanding war and the corruption involved in war. For example, with the start of Naruto; Konoha was sort of pushed as this ideal utopia, which is analogous to our life, in that when we grow up as kids, at first, we believe the society we grow amongst is some sort of utopia. However, there's obviously some aspects of corruption and greed involved with any state (i.e. Itachi's orders to kill his clan). I think that's a really powerful and subjective aspect of Naruto that most people tend overlook​


C. Hook said:


> You did not read One Piece? The current arcs hold all the quality of older arcs. One Piece isn't finished not because the author is forced to churn out pages (Dragonball after Frieza), but because the author loves his manga and keeps putting in all the interesting ideas. The current arc, Shabondy Archipelago, is getting so much love it's ridiculous.
> 
> As for this thread, it's funny. Why? Because it's going to get locked, and another thread will come in.
> 
> Edit: Taleran, why do you hate FMA? Sure, the first few chapters were enormously rushed, but the later parts of the manga are incredibly good.


I understand where your coming from and while I believe your correct in every way, I just think that I interwove my opinion with that last statement. 

I have read some of OP and watched a few of first season episodes but I'm not really trashing OP at all. That's why I left up a disclaimer stating that "I'm not really taking anything away from OP", I mean, sure there will be people who definitely hate OP and people who love it but I'm not really hardcore about it. 

It's just that I found Naruto more interesting in the beginning than OP, that's all.​


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 10, 2008)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> Well, I've seen and read a few chapters/episodes but the reason I side with Naruto is because it's more applicable to reality, or our life.​



I'm not sure what you mean, but go on. Of course, the art and story have very much improved over time, so it's not likely that first impressions will be good ones.



SoLiOZuZ said:


> Point Taken, but they do leave room for development of other characters, in the sense that almost each villain has a developed background story and while they concentrate mostly on the Uchiha's, I must admit they have overlooked Gai's Team and Kurenai's team.​



They're overlooking the main character currently. That's not a good thing in a manga where the next main character is a whiny Gary Stu. Also, giving each villain a detailed backstory is nice, but not if the villain becomes sympathetic. Is it a good thing for the entire Uchiha massacre to become retconned just because Kishi wanted Itachi to be a good guy?



SoLiOZuZ said:


> I was looking for a realism that applied more to our society as a whole rather than just physical and character appeals. The story as a whole, with the dawn of war seems a bit more interwoven and closely spun off the coming of wars in the past. Kind of like how Full Metal Alchemist was loosely based on the War in Iraq but it could also be applied to 1904 Arab-French War.
> I think in that it has a much more idealized sense of understanding war and the corruption involved in war. For example, with the start of Naruto; Konoha was sort of pushed as this ideal utopia, which is analogous to our life, in that when we grow up as kids, at first, we believe the society we grow amongst is some sort of utopia. However, there's obviously some aspects of corruption and greed involved with any state (i.e. Itachi's orders to kill his clan). I think that's a really powerful and subjective aspect of Naruto that most people tend overlook​



First of all, isn't Full Metal Alchemist based on both the Iraq War AND Nazi Germany? It seems to be a mix of both. 

That happens in almost all stories, not just Naruto. The corruption of a state previously thought incorruptible is one of the most central fantasy themes. 

Thirdly, this was in the art section, not the story section of your post. 



SoLiOZuZ said:


> I understand where your coming from and while I believe your correct in every way, I just think that I interwove my opinion with that last statement.
> 
> I have read some of OP and watched a few of first season episodes but I'm not really trashing OP at all. That's why I left up a disclaimer stating that "I'm not really taking anything away from OP", I mean, sure there will be people who definitely hate OP and people who love it but I'm not really hardcore about it.
> 
> It's just that I found Naruto more interesting in the beginning than OP, that's all.​



Don't you think you should rate One Piece as a whole, though? Otherwise, you can't really form a good opinion on it. Most people believe the manga reached its its full potential during and after the Arlong Arc. And have you been watching the dub? If you have, then you literally CAN'T rate One Piece, as its dub was horribly mangled beyond comprehension.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 10, 2008)

SoLiOZuZ said:


> Well, I've seen and read a few chapters/episodes but the reason I side with Naruto is because it's more applicable to reality, or our life.​



No, no it's not. When was the last time you saw demons, people with cursed eyes and tentacle people walking around? I mean, the story starts out with a gargantuan demon sealed within a baby...

Talking about aspects of real life, Naruto is just as fictional as OP. 



> Point Taken, but they do leave room for development of other characters, in the sense that almost each villain has a developed background story and while they concentrate mostly on the Uchiha's, I must admit they have overlooked Gai's Team and Kurenai's
> team.​



No. Every villain in Naruto has a virtually identical sob-story of losing parents/friends/etc. which caused them to take the path they did, in a poor attempt to make them sympathetic, but only ruins their character. None of the rookies have had any significant development in Part II save for maybe Shikamaru. Teachers other than Kakashi, and even Kakashi himself are neglected for the most part. 



> I was looking for a realism that applied more to our society as a whole rather than just physical and character appeals. The story as a whole, with the dawn of war seems a bit more interwoven and closely spun off the coming of wars in the past. Kind of like how Full Metal Alchemist was loosely based on the War in Iraq but it could also be applied to 1904 Arab-French War.​



You do know OP is verging on having a war in its series too right? I really don't think OP and Naruto are anymore realistic than the other in that regards. Also, Naruto is unrealistic especially on the issue of Sasuke, seeing as he would have been killed almost immediately, and by ones assured to overpower him. I don't see any similarity with the wars in Naruto to the ones in real-life other than the basics in which nearly all wars have in common, fictional and nonfictional.

Also, Naruto has a limited view on their society, almost everything is based on what we see in Konoha. IMO, One Piece represents the aspects of real-life society much better. Alabasta, Water 7, and the Sabaody Archipelago represent multiple aspects of society, for example, and not just a single one. Alabasta is pretty much a monarchy, Water 7 a democracy, Sabaody an oligarchy. 



> I think in that it has a much more idealized sense of understanding war and the corruption involved in war. For example, with the start of Naruto; Konoha was sort of pushed as this ideal utopia, which is analogous to our life, in that when we grow up as kids, at first, we believe the society we grow amongst is some sort of utopia. However, there's obviously some aspects of corruption and greed involved with any state (i.e. Itachi's orders to kill his clan). I think that's a really powerful and subjective aspect of Naruto that most people tend overlook​



It just seems to me you're trying to make out Naruto equivalent to some dystopian novel by overcomplicating the revelations of the latest arc. The flaws of Konoha became apparent at the start of Part II when Tsunade's issues with Danzou and the elders were addressed. Everyone knew they'd become an issue sooner or later. 

Also. The World Government of OP is _extremely_ corrupt. I'd say worse than anything in Naruto. They have destroyed or hidden remnants of past history, they have slaughtered entire families, cities, civilizations. They have the blood of so many on their hands it's not even funny. The Tenryuubito are basically a good representation of that corruption with the issues of human trafficking in the latest chapters. It was strongly implied the World Gov't is well aware of such things, but do nothing to stop it. This is a superpower that controls the WORLD, not just a single area within a single country.

Slavery, murder and genocide, poverty, war, corruption. One Piece has touched upon those things at least one time or another. OP does more thoroughly explore the societies of its world and the issues within them than compared to Naruto. OP can be shown as a representation to multiple aspects of society in this world, not just one.



> I understand where your coming from and while I believe your correct in every way, I just think that I interwove my opinion with that last statement.
> 
> I have read some of OP and watched a few of first season episodes but I'm not really trashing OP at all. That's why I left up a disclaimer stating that "I'm not really taking anything away from OP", I mean, sure there will be people who definitely hate OP and people who love it but I'm not really hardcore about it.
> 
> It's just that I found Naruto more interesting in the beginning than OP, that's all.​



Your opinion I guess


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jun 10, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> I'm not sure what you mean, but go on. Of course, the art and story have very much improved over time, so it's not likely that first impressions will be good ones.
> 
> They're overlooking the main character currently. That's not a good thing in a manga where the next main character is a whiny Gary Stu. Also, giving each villain a detailed backstory is nice, but not if the villain becomes sympathetic. Is it a good thing for the entire Uchiha massacre to become retconned just because Kishi wanted Itachi to be a good guy?


I think it was a really good twist because when facing the possibility of war, people need to make tough decisions. And while, Itachi's case was extreme it shows that he was more a "human" person which balances the way Kishimoto demonized him in the beginning. 

If Itachi was a straight outright psychopath, Sasuke would have killed him and there wouldn't really be anything for Naruto lean on in order retrieve him back to Konoha. Although, every villain should not really be sympathetic, which is why I liked it when Kakuzu and Hidan were shown to be confiding in something else other than a sympathetic past. I was really hoping for more of an elaborate past for Hidan, with him being all-religious and immortal though.

Though Sasori and Deidara were different stories, while Sasori had a sad past, he made his choice. And while it was out of a sympathetic cause, I think it was necessary for his character development. Because not every villain turns out to be like, "Yeah, I'm nutjob, let's turn people into dolls." Unless, of course if you are Pain  - And even his past seems like something that was influenced by feeling. So in the end, I guess what I'm looking for is basically more a well-balanced villain rather than your maniacal villain, because it shows that even as villains they are or at least one point in time were humans.​


C. Hook said:


> First of all, isn't Full Metal Alchemist based on both the Iraq War AND Nazi Germany? It seems to be a mix of both.
> 
> That happens in almost all stories, not just Naruto. The corruption of a state previously thought incorruptible is one of the most central fantasy themes.
> 
> Thirdly, this was in the art section, not the story section of your post.


The Nazi Germany came more into effect during the movie more so than the actual series. While the time-frame was similar we saw how different the two time lines went with the presence of Physics or Alchemy. But you are right though, it is a complete mix, because the Ishval Massacre seems to be loosely based on the Arab-Israeli War of 1948 but the real-time premise is more of your 1920s in Germany (in the movie).

I was just merely using that theme as an example, though in a method of contrasting it with OP. While it may a recurring theme in most fantasy stories, I think there are other themes you can take from this story as well, such as individuality, succession and honor just to name a few.​


C. Hook said:


> Don't you think you should rate One Piece as a whole, though? Otherwise, you can't really form a good opinion on it. Most people believe the manga reached its its full potential during and after the Arlong Arc. And have you been watching the dub? If you have, then you literally CAN'T rate One Piece, as its dub was horribly mangled beyond comprehension.


I'm not really rating it, I think it was the whole pirate theme as a whole that I wasn't really too fond of. While I'm sure millions of people wouldn't be watching it if it wasn't great, I'm sure there are people who, like me just weren't really interested based on the premise.

Great Discussion ​


Seto Kaiba said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While I was speaking of realistic aspects, I was referring more to the subjective themes we can draw from a story rather than the physical. Obviously, there really aren't people blowing buildings up and using ninjutsu. And let's not jump the gun to far, not every villain has a sob-story, while most do, not everyone does.

However, I really can't argue against the factual portion of your post in relation to OP, while you maybe correct or incorrect, I haven't watched that far or haven't read that far into OP. I seem to think that you are merely downplaying Naruto, while it might be inferior to OP in length, it still has a longer way to go.

My main post was more of saying "Yeah this why I watch Naruto but I really didn't like OP because I wasn't really fond of the premise."  And I'm not debating against OP nor am I debating for it, it's just that I would rather people look at things in an open light and give credit where it's due rather than brush it off.​


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## Taleran (Jun 10, 2008)

What's the point of tabbing your respones thats what the quote tags are for


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 10, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Sasuke sama is the epitome of the shounen main character. he's setting new standards to which future shounen main characters will be judged by. Everything sasuke sama is doing rght now will be clonned and copied by future mangaka.


 ROFL. 

Why would they copy the shittiest character in history. Seriously, Sasuke makes Bitchigo look like a great protagonist




> nothing is more epic than this manga. Sasuke Vs Deidarra alone makes The lord of the rings trillogy look like a pile of shit.


I hope you die a slow, horrible death



> *fap* *fap* *fap*
> already read all those mangas, they don't come close to a masterpiece like Naruto.


 Naruto is a steaming pile of horse shit and you know it. And you have never read OP or JJBA








> Naruto pwns, Bleach pwns and Tsubasa pwns. There is no manga in the world that can stand up to these great works art.


JJBA disagrees




> I'm always serious


And you always have your head up your ass




> Those three are still the most GAR characters in manga history. u can hate all you want, it won't change the fact.


 JJBA disagrees again

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=g9jmxHj1HJA[/YOUTUBE]




> Jolyne Kujo's pussy is more GAR than all of CLAMP's characters combined.


 Fixed

Seriously, though. Even Diavolo and Anasui have more GAR than all of Tsubasa


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 11, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> true
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This guy is great.


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## Amatsu (Jun 11, 2008)

> Sasuke sama is the epitome of the shounen main character. he's setting new standards to which future shounen main characters will be judged by. Everything sasuke sama is doing rght now will be clonned and copied by future mangaka.



Isn't Sasuke the love child of Kurapica and Vegeta or something? I mean honestly what new stuff does THAT bring to shounen main characters?


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## Sylar (Jun 11, 2008)

Jewengan?


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## ryne11 (Jun 11, 2008)

Can I just like all 3 for different reasons and go about my way without explaining why one isn't shit and why the other isn't overrated?


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 11, 2008)

Look, that fapboy character probably is serious, which is why I spam the hell out of image macros. They're the only thing he understands.


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## Wuzzman (Jun 11, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> ROFL.
> 
> Why would they copy the shittiest character in history. Seriously, Sasuke makes Bitchigo look like a great protagonist
> 
> ...



JJBA shits on onepiece as well.........and pisses on it.....

on a lighter note, Luffy is going to kill his whole crew for the little mermaid...


----------



## Zetta (Jun 11, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> JJBA shits on onepiece as well.........and pisses on it.....
> 
> on a lighter note, Luffy is going to kill his whole crew for the little mermaid...



JJBA shits on everything. It's THAT awesome.


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## Wuzzman (Jun 11, 2008)

gangsta superstar anyone?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 11, 2008)

Zetta said:


> JJBA shits on everything. It's THAT awesome.



Pfffft JJBA art sucks, its inferior to Narutos awesome 














Yeah as if Naruto is anywhere close to JJBA in art


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## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 11, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Why would they copy the shittiest character in history. Seriously, Sasuke makes Bitchigo look like a great protagonist


They wont copy Naruto(who's the shittiest main character in history), they'll be copying Sasuke sama, the epitome of cool and badassery.



> I hope you die a slow, horrible death


noes , someone is being horrible to me on the internets

*wrist*



> Naruto is a steaming pile of horse shit and you know it


Naruto is the greatest manga ever 



> And you have never read OP


I do read op
as proof, here's what happened last chapter
*checks wikipedia* Luffy kicked a noble man in the face with his rubber rubber pistol attack 



> or JJBA


JJBA sucked, I only read it 'till chapter 12.



> JJBA disagrees


JJBA = shit 



> And you always have your head up *Sasuke sama's *ass






> JJBA disagrees again


JJBA is shit, thats why it got cancled from weekely shounen jump
noa it is relegated to a crap magazine/




> Seriously, though. Even Diavolo and Anasui have more GAR than all of Tsubasa


Kurugane. Syaoran and Fai are the epitome of maniliness. There is no other set of characters that oozes as much maniliness as these three hot studs.







Aethos said:


> Isn't Sasuke the love child of Kurapica and Vegeta or something? I mean honestly what new stuff does THAT bring to shounen main characters?


Sasuke sama is the love child of Fugaku and Mikoto


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## Berserkhawk z (Jun 11, 2008)

Zetta said:


> JJBA shits on everything. It's THAT awesome.



Except Berserk

HXH and maybe Bastard are just as awsome as JJBA too


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## Zetta (Jun 11, 2008)

berserkhawk z said:


> Except Berserk
> 
> HXH and maybe Bastard are just as awsome as JJBA too



Bastard I agree with. But I haven't read HxH yet so... yeah.


> JJBA is shit, thats why it got cancled from weekely shounen jump
> noa it is relegated to a crap magazine/


You do understand that it was UPGRADED to Ultra Jump because it was too awesome for Shounen? 

The fact that it's IN Ultra Jump (which is for more mature audiances) already makes it more badass that Naruto/OP/Bleach combined.


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## Akatora (Jun 11, 2008)

Zetta said:


> Bastard I agree with. But I haven't read HxH yet so... yeah.
> 
> You do understand that it was UPGRADED to Ultra Jump because it was too awesome for Shounen?
> 
> The fact that it's IN Ultra Jump (which is for more mature audiances) already makes it more badass that Naruto/OP/Bleach combined.



Maybe maybe not, or want to start arguing why series where people commit worthless suicides all the time is cooler then the 3 combined?
Since these mangas are more mature, but have characters more Emo then Sasuke and Shinji Ikari combined.
Yeah jump off from 8'th floor with the head first smiling breaking your skull at the street...


The fact that it's more mature ain't= badass
Seinens can be more badass then Shounens since they don't have the restrictions.


I don't read JJBA, one day I might, but saying anything mature is more badass then something rated Teens ain't wise.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 11, 2008)

Akatora said:


> Maybe maybe not, or want to start arguing why series where people commit worthless suicides all the time is cooler then the 3 combined?
> Since these mangas are more mature, but have characters more Emo then Sasuke and Shinji Ikari combined.
> Yeah jump off from 8'th floor with the head first smiling breaking your skull at the street...
> 
> ...



Expect tons of negs incoming now, critizing JJBA like that was not a good move.

I dont read JJBA either but i wouldnt judge it before reading it if i were you.

However that is now too late, the damage is done.


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## Sylar (Jun 11, 2008)

Akatora said:


> Maybe maybe not, or want to start arguing why series where people commit worthless suicides all the time is cooler then the 3 combined?
> Since these mangas are more mature, but have characters more Emo then Sasuke and Shinji Ikari combined.
> Yeah jump off from 8'th floor with the head first smiling breaking your skull at the street...
> 
> ...



Bastard, Berserk, Monster, 20th Century Boys, 21st Century Boys, Pluto, JJBA, and Battle Angel Alita. All more mature and individually badass than most of the shonen series COMBINED.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 11, 2008)

HnK is shonen....


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 11, 2008)

I've only got a tiny bit into Bastard (After Dark Shneider slaughters the guy with the hydra), so forgive me, but I feel it's a bit disjointed. At some parts, it seems like Dark Shneider talking to no one in paticular, and the battle scenes are a bit disjointed as well. Of course, it's probably going to get better as I get further in, but for now, it's definitely not my fave.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 11, 2008)

Elijah Snow said:


> HnK is shonen....



That's why I said most.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 11, 2008)

Sylar said:


> That's why I said most.



I thought you listed all type of mangas and forgot to read thoroughly that it was seinen only.

My bad my superior wanklord


----------



## Aldric (Jun 11, 2008)

Bastard!! isn't really "mature"

But it has a massive advantage over the series we're talking about here, it doesn't take itself seriously at all

It's almost a gag manga at times


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 11, 2008)

how is bastard mature............and besides seinin series != shounen so really no point in mentioning 3 expectational seinin (really 20th and 21th is the SAME series...haven't got into monster yet) when the argument is about shounen.... Really if you really want to /thread this thread just start posting links to JJB volumes.


----------



## Midus (Jun 11, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> how is bastard mature............and besides seinin series != shounen so really no point in mentioning 3 expectational seinin (really 20th and 21th is the SAME series...haven't got into monster yet) when the argument is about shounen.... Really if you really want to /thread this thread just start posting links to JJB volumes.



Shonen != Seinen, but they all are Manga so I don't we why one can't make comparisons between the two types. The argument isn't specifically about Shonen manga. The three manga listed just happen to be Shonen. We pretty much stopped arguing about the original topic 20 pages ago anyways.... 

Why bring up JJB. It'll only add one more series below One Piece.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 11, 2008)

JJBA
Flame of Recca
Hunter X Hunter
YYH
Kinnikuman
Hokuto No Ken
Dragonball

and thats just off the top of my head


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 11, 2008)

Flame Recca.................................................................................................


----------



## Taleran (Jun 11, 2008)

remember this is the library manga versions only

and the Recca manga destroys naruto and bleach


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 11, 2008)

I would have no problem with Naruto if Kishimoto made the Mist village play a key role in the manga.


----------



## Superrazien (Jun 11, 2008)

I would love to see someone argue that Bleach is better than Naruto or One Piece. It would be really interesting to see if anyone could come up with a decent argument.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 11, 2008)

Superrazien said:


> I would love to see someone argue that Bleach is better than Naruto or One Piece. It would be really interesting to see if anyone could come up with a decent argument.



Arguing that Bleach is better than One Piece is pretty much 
impossible. Arguing that Bleach is better than Naruto used to be
impossible until part II.


----------



## Midus (Jun 11, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> I would have no problem with Naruto if Kishimoto made the Mist village play a key role in the manga.



Same. Any village besides Sound, Leaf, and Sand really. Glad they showed some of Rain. Want to see more of the other villages.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 11, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> I would have no problem with Naruto if Kishimoto made the Mist village play a key role in the manga.



He made Kisame diapear and Suigetsu doesn't even talk anymore. Mist village doesn't exist.


----------



## Akatora (Jun 11, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Expect tons of negs incoming now, critizing JJBA like that was not a good move.
> 
> I dont read JJBA either but i wouldnt judge it before reading it if i were you.
> 
> However that is now too late, the damage is done.




XD
Man did that one get misinterpret, Only thing I mentioned about JJBA in the entire post was I haven't read it.

I was refering to What Zetta was implying that something more mature always own the less mature aka saying that a series such as the seinen "Alive" where people commit suicides like it was nothing and smiling while droping to there deaths.
Is makes for a more badass series then a guy writing names killing people.


That was what i found to be a ridiculous claim



> I would love to see someone argue that Bleach is better than Naruto or One Piece. It would be really interesting to see if anyone could come up with a decent argument.



Not going to jump out in that one, It's something to be saved for when the series have ended. There's still many ways any of em could skyrock or plum to the depth of the ocean.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 11, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> He made Kisame diapear and Suigetsu doesn't even talk anymore. Mist village doesn't exist.



If the spoilers are true you guys are going to be either VERY pleased (Guess who's back?) or VERY VERY pissed (Guess who's the Mizukage?)


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 11, 2008)

Sylar said:


> If the spoilers are true you guys are going to be either VERY pleased (Guess who's back?) or VERY VERY pissed (Guess who's the Mizukage?)



God no, please don't let it be true. MIZUKAGE??!!


----------



## Superrazien (Jun 11, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Arguing that Bleach is better than One Piece is pretty much
> impossible. Arguing that Bleach is better than Naruto used to be
> impossible until part II.



Part II is bad I'll give you that, but Naruto Part 2 is still way better then where Bleach is at. Bleach lost hope along time ago. Plus Naruto is more of the kind of story where Kishi could redeem himself, I don't see how Kubo can redeem himself. He is stuck with boring characters.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 11, 2008)

Superrazien said:


> Part II is bad I'll give you that, but Naruto Part 2 is still way better then where Bleach is at. Bleach lost hope along time ago. Plus Naruto is more of the kind of story where Kishi could redeem himself, I don't see how Kubo can redeem himself. He is stuck with boring characters.



Bleach is at least readable now that HM is over. Turn Back the Pendulum has actually been pretty good, since Bitchigo is nowhere to be found. Naruto is readable only for the unintentional lulz and "so bad it's funny" factor it's had since the beginning of the Uchiha fight.

Naruto is equally as bad with characters. Bitchigo is still somehow a better lead than Sasuke and Naruto have been post-skip. And plot-wise, Naruto has absolutely fallen apart and is just a jumbled mess of out the ass plot twists and retcon.

And Bleach has shown with this flashback arc that there is still hope for redemption (If he maybe shifted the focus away from Ichigo and Co. for a bit once the main story resumes). Kishimoto has shown the opposite with Naruto's latest major powerup


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 11, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Bleach is at least readable now that HM is over. Turn Back the Pendulum has actually been pretty good, since Bitchigo is nowhere to be found. Naruto is readable only for the unintentional lulz and "so bad it's funny" factor it's had since the beginning of the Uchiha fight.



The flashback will end VERY soon. When it's over, it's back to the inevitable Ichigo vs. Ulqiorra battle (Which is going to suck. I don't know how, I just know it is.).



Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Naruto is equally as bad with characters. Bitchigo is still somehow a better lead than Sasuke and Naruto have been post-skip. And plot-wise, Naruto has absolutely fallen apart and is just a jumbled mess of out the ass plot twists and retcon.



I believe Naruto has always been better than Bitchigo because of one reason: Naruto has a personality. Also, Naruto has a chance of redeeming itself. When we go back to the main story, Bleach will go downhill again.



Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> And Bleach has shown with this flashback arc that there is still hope for redemption (If he maybe shifted the focus away from Ichigo and Co. for a bit once the main story resumes). Kishimoto has shown the opposite with Naruto's latest major powerup



When you're suggesting that the only way for Kubo to save his manga is for him to make the same mistake Kishi is hated for (Switching the focus away from the main character) I start to realize just how much Bleach sucks.

The flashback will end. Just remember that.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 12, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> The flashback will end VERY soon. When it's over, it's back to the inevitable Ichigo vs. Ulqiorra battle (Which is going to suck. I don't know how, I just know it is.)


 Can't be worse than Byakuya vs. Zommari or Sasuke vs. Itachi





> I believe Naruto has always been better than Bitchigo because of one reason: Naruto has a personality. Also, Naruto has a chance of redeeming itself. When we go back to the main story, Bleach will go downhill again.


Honestly, I'd rather deal with a personality-less character than a whiny emo who's always crying out for his ass-buddy. Plus, Ichigo has Shirosaki





> When you're suggesting that the only way for Kubo to save his manga is for him to make the same mistake Kishi is hated for (Switching the focus away from the main character) I start to realize just how much Bleach sucks.


 The thing is, none of Bleach's characters are as horrible as Sasuke is. The worst character in Bleach (besides Ulquiorra) is Ichigo. There have always been worse characters in Naruto than Naruto.

As long as it's not Renji or Uryu, it would be an improvement over Ichigo.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 12, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Bastard, Berserk, Monster, 20th Century Boys, 21st Century Boys, Pluto, JJBA, and Battle Angel Alita. All more mature and individually badass than most of the shonen series COMBINED.



and yet if you removed the gore, sex scenes, toned down the language since apparently there is a lot of heavy cussing in these "mature" mangas, etc. What would you have left? Oh that's right a shounen.

Being more graphic than the average shounen doesn't always equal it being a more mature manga. It just means it's more graphic than the average shounen. In other words comparing JJBA or Berserk to One Piece or Naruto is like comparing an R rated movie to a G or PG rated movie in a sense. That's why I don't really like the maturity/immaturity argument. I mean honestly how does reading a more graphic series make you more mature than someone who doesn't? It's stupid honestly.

And yeah I pretty much know I'm asking for it but hey there are people who claim I always say stupid shit anyways so perhaps I shouldn't care if there's a backlash.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 12, 2008)

Aethos said:


> and yet if you removed the gore, sex scenes, toned down the language since apparently there is a lot of heavy cussing in these "mature" mangas, etc. What would you have left? Oh that's right a shounen.
> 
> Being more graphic than the average shounen doesn't always equal it being a more mature manga. It just means it's more graphic than the average shounen. In other words comparing JJBA or Berserk to One Piece or Naruto is like comparing an R rated movie to a G or PG rated movie in a sense. That's why I don't really like the maturity/immaturity argument. I mean honestly how does reading a more graphic series make you more mature than someone who doesn't? It's stupid honestly.
> 
> And yeah I pretty much know I'm asking for it but hey there are people who claim I always say stupid shit anyways so perhaps I shouldn't care if there's a backlash.



so thank you for proving you haven't read any to most of the series he just mentioned

thanks for coming out


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 12, 2008)

Sylar said:


> If the spoilers are true you guys are going to be either VERY pleased (Guess who's back?) or VERY VERY pissed (Guess who's the Mizukage?)



It's a little troubling, but if that's what it takes for the Mist to play a big role in this series I'll take him being Mizukage without hesitation.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 12, 2008)

Taleran said:


> so thank you for proving you haven't read any to most of the series he just mentioned
> 
> thanks for coming out



Yup you're right. I'm planning on reading some of those though in the future. So you can stop being a elitist prick now.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 12, 2008)

So I become the prick for calling you out on your bullshit?

Not to mention I make no claims in that post over which I find superior so your calling me eltist seems to stem from your imagination?


Swing and a miss again


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 12, 2008)

Taleran said:


> So I become the prick for calling you out on your bullshit?
> 
> 
> way to go there



Hey I just call it like I see it. I pretty much knew it was coming, but as I said no reason to be so harsh about it. It just shows you don't respect my opinion. Especially since you just said it was bullshit.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 12, 2008)

A baseless opinion founded in nothing, sure sounds like shit to me.


----------



## HugeGuy (Jun 12, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> It's a little troubling, but if that's what it takes for the Mist to play a big role in this series I'll take him being Mizukage without hesitation.



I for one is quite happy with this progress. Seriously, to me it's the only one of two good things that has happened so far(the other being Konoha's order on Uchiha massacre, totally didn't expected that). Although if you think about it, it all comes back to Konoha.

Konoha, Konoha.......it's always about you, right?


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 12, 2008)

Taleran said:


> A baseless opinion founded in nothing, sure sounds like shit to me.



To you maybe. I guess an opinion you disagree with would in your mind be baseless and founded on nothing.



Taleran said:


> Not to mention I make no claims in that post over which I find superior so your calling me eltist seems to stem from your imagination?



Oh and I'm sure you DIDN'T call me on that just to be nice. Your post was just oozing with the attitude of "If you had read all those series he mentioned you'd see we're right and any other opinion is wrong."

Geez I know those series arer popular on this forum but give me a break. Since when did people have to see those series the exact same way you do?


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jun 12, 2008)

It's the great plot and characterization (as well as psychological themes in some) that make those series great...not the violence aethos.  

Maybe I should catch up on Naruto...just to get some closure.  I don't even know what happened to Itachi.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 12, 2008)

I'm not asking you to see the series the same way, I'm simply asking that YOU ACTUALLY READ THEM 1st

is that really so hard to understand?


and yes forming an opinion on something before experiencing it is worthless and shit, just because its your opinion doesn't make it bullet proof or a shield that you can hide behind when someone disagrees.


----------



## Codde (Jun 12, 2008)

Aethos said:


> To you maybe. I guess an opinion you disagree with would in your mind be baseless and founded on nothing.


Well you yourself have admitted to not reading most of the series you criticized in his list (which is where the baseless-ness comes in). As your statement doesn't really apply all that much in an objective manner (as far as your examples go), not really relevant whether or not you like it.


----------



## Mr. All Sunday (Jun 12, 2008)

This Aethos fellow is sort of retarded


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 12, 2008)

No it's not hard to understand at all but look at how you're wording your posts it's coming off so negatively. You kind of sound like a jerk. If you're trying to encourage me to read the series that's not the right way to do it. I mean would a Naruto fan who hasn't read One Piece actually read it if I made remarks like that? I doubt it.

Besides I have most of those on my to read list anyways. 

meh I guess I shouldn't try to argue though with someone who prefers Seinen to Shounen. I mean of course you're going to say it's more mature or whatever...  Besides even if I had read all those series and I had that same opinion would you have responded any different? Probably not.



Mr. All Sunday said:


> This Aethos fellow is sort of retarded



And this just proves my point even more. You disagree with me so you decide on calling me retarded or stupid. If my opinion is so baseless why are you even bothering to respond to it then? If it's a shitty opinion wouldn't your time be better spent responding to an opinion that's more worthy?

All you're doing is acknowledging my opinion by posting to it. That shows me it's not really shitty after all. All it shows me is that I pissed a few people off.


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## Taleran (Jun 12, 2008)

can't you not see that your just spewing out the same garbage with every post?


----------



## Mr. All Sunday (Jun 12, 2008)

hey why don't you try seinen some time

they're well written, have better plots and art than 99% of shonen, and also when there's fighting you get some awesome looking gore and tits and stuff


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jun 12, 2008)

You talk all high and mighty about OP compared to Naruto all the time...you like get off on it.

Oh well, your very argument misses the point of good series entirely so I guess I shouldn't bother.


----------



## AndrewGreen (Jun 12, 2008)

Aethos said:


> If it's a shitty opinion wouldn't your time be better spent responding to an opinion that's more worthy?



but you are responding to our opinion of you being shitty

that means it is worthwhile

which means that you are shitty

well done Aethos.  You've proven your own shittyness


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 12, 2008)

Skypiea > Naruto & Bleach combined

is that fanboy enough


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 12, 2008)

> can't you not see that your just spewing out the same garbage with every post?



That's pretty much the point. I'm not going to call you "retarded ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" or "shitheads" just because you called me on my opinion. You're looking for a fight that I pretty much am not going to participate in.



AndrewGreen said:


> but you are responding to our opinion of you being shitty
> 
> that means it is worthwhile
> 
> ...



So you think I'm shitty... that's nice.



> hey why don't you try seinen some time
> 
> they're well written, have better plots and art than 99% of shonen, and also when there's fighting you get some awesome looking gore and tits and stuff



well better plots are appealing to me. I've been wanting to try out some seinen anyways. So I shall do so I thank you.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 12, 2008)

Aethos said:


> To you maybe. I guess an opinion you disagree with would in your mind be baseless and founded on nothing.



Saying that removing the gore and "cussing" (lmao) from series like Berserk, Battle Angel Alita and Monster would make them shonen is flat out retarded, there's no two ways to it. 

There's such things as characterization, references, underlying themes and psychological violence that clearly separates them from shonen. Some of these series don't even have that much "gore" or "sex scenes", like 20th Century Boys or Monster.

You can't keep on whining RESPECT MY OPINION!!! when your opinion is utterly ridiculous.


----------



## Mr. All Sunday (Jun 12, 2008)

I'm confused as to what the point of your twenty thousand long winded posts in this thread are if you haven't read any seinen and agree with our arguments

man you're dumb


----------



## Mr. All Sunday (Jun 12, 2008)

Aldrich yeah yeah yeah Aldrich rah rah rah

but yeah Aethos the ALL OPINIONS ARE EQUAL AND VALID bullshit is about the worst thing ever

everyone has the right to their opinion

but not everyone's opinion is right


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 12, 2008)

Mr. All Sunday said:


> I'm confused as to what the point of your twenty thousand long winded posts in this thread are if you haven't read any seinen and agree with our arguments
> 
> man you're dumb



Would you rather me lie and try to defend myself when I know I can't win?



Aldric said:


> Saying that removing the gore and "cussing" (lmao) from series like Berserk, Battle Angel Alita and Monster would make them shonen is flat out retarded, there's no two ways to it.
> 
> There's such things as characterization, references, underlying themes and psychological violence that clearly separates them from shonen. Some of these series don't even have that much "gore" or "sex scenes", like 20th Century Boys or Monster.
> 
> You can't keep on whining RESPECT MY OPINION!!! when your opinion is utterly ridiculous.



You know what Aldric? You're absolutely right. I was stupid saying that about series I haven't read and your examples prove that. It'd be like me saying Elfin Lied is no more than a harem manga. So okay then I'm the biggest retard on the internet Aldric. You win.

I won't say anymore about it.


----------



## MakeEmum (Jun 12, 2008)

Damn, what the hell has been going on the last few pages?


----------



## Sylar (Jun 12, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> It's a little troubling, but if that's what it takes for the Mist to play a big role in this series I'll take him being Mizukage without hesitation.



But it means basically Kisame is his bitch. Which is more than a little troubling....


----------



## Akatora (Jun 12, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Saying that removing the gore and "cussing" (lmao) from series like Berserk, Battle Angel Alita and Monster would make them shonen is flat out retarded, there's no two ways to it.
> 
> There's such things as characterization, references, underlying themes and psychological violence that clearly separates them from shonen. Some of these series don't even have that much "gore" or "sex scenes", like 20th Century Boys or Monster.
> 
> You can't keep on whining RESPECT MY OPINION!!! when your opinion is utterly ridiculous.



When you say shounens are you referring to weekly jump or Shounens in general??? Since from your post it sound like you judge it hardly on Jump Sq material and other none weekly shounens.

These are monthly and are as such not demanded to push in as much in short chapters, this is the very same strength that Seinens usually have to make there storyline better told.
So Going by this I say Aethos is right in a way.

Or want to start to Use series such as Another tale of Frankenstein, Claymore and there like Instead?


Also just having one Nc-17 scene in a shounen would make It rated Seinen.
So yeah some seinens are obviously easier to change then others.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 12, 2008)

Sylar said:


> But it means basically Kisame is his bitch. Which is more than a little troubling....



Well before this he was practically Itachi's bitch. In this current scenario it makes sense for him to take a somewhat obedient role. At least in this case he's doing it for the absolute head honcho, so I don't have that much of a problem with it.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 13, 2008)

Akatora said:


> When you say shounens are you referring to weekly jump or Shounens in general??? Since from your post it sound like you judge it hardly on Jump Sq material and other none weekly shounens.
> 
> These are monthly and are as such not demanded to push in as much in short chapters, this is the very same strength that Seinens usually have to make there storyline better told.
> So Going by this I say Aethos is right in a way.
> ...



Claymore is run of the mill shonen

What does being monthly or weekly has to do with anything

What are you blabbering about


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 13, 2008)

Aethos said:


> and yet if you removed the gore, sex scenes, toned down the language since apparently there is a lot of heavy cussing in these "mature" mangas, etc. What would you have left? Oh that's right a shounen.


"Graphic Violence" wise 20th Century Boys, 21st Century Boys, and Pluto are tamer then many shonen. 



> Being more graphic than the average shounen doesn't always equal it being a more mature manga. It just means it's more graphic than the average shounen. In other words comparing JJBA or Berserk to One Piece or Naruto
> .


90% of JJBA is shonen.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 13, 2008)

Kishi pwned Jump again this week.
the man is a geniuspek


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 13, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Kishi pwned Jump again this week.
> the man is a geniuspek



Are you talking about the one where we see that Sasuke's being such a great little hero? You know, planning to slaughter the elders of a village that didn't do shit to him? Allying with a criminal organization?

Well, trolls will be trolls.


----------



## Lusankya (Jun 13, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Kishi pwned Jump again this week.
> the man is a geniuspek



Wrong. Oda owned Jump this week.


----------



## Akatora (Jun 13, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Claymore is run of the mill shonen
> 
> What does being monthly or weekly has to do with anything
> 
> What are you blabbering about




The simple thing you say that "characterization" is much lower in Shounen

Could you give some exsamples.
On the better ones that is.

Usually that part Is better in Shojo and the 18+ girl mangas that i've forgotten the name of


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 13, 2008)

Akatora said:


> The simple thing you say that "characterization" is much lower in Shounen
> 
> Could you give some exsamples.
> On the better ones that is.
> ...



They seem more like real people. They often don't lead lives where they're set-up for greatness from day one, and many times are as remarkable as me or you.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 13, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Kishi pwned Jump again this week.



Potential for the Hidden Mist to play a large role in the story? Even with an Uchiha as the head I'll probably agree. Hell, it's probably for the best.

EDIT: Read OP chapter. Changed my mind.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 13, 2008)

Why does Madara even have to be the Mizukage? I mean Akatsuki is supposed to be a group of S-class criminals not a Uchiha kage and his cronies. Let's just hope this isn't a repeat of Part 1's little invasion arc by the sand village.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 13, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Potential for the Hidden Mist to play a large role in the story? Even with an Uchiha as the head I'll probably agree. Hell, it's probably for the best.
> 
> EDIT: Read OP chapter. Changed my mind.



There might be another great war, I'm a bit optimistic. Madara may end up forming alliances with villages hostile to Konoha like Iwagakure, which would probably form an oppurtunity to show other villages and their leaders.


----------



## Lilykt7 (Jun 13, 2008)

one piece is a good manga but I don't see why people consider it just SO amazing.


----------



## Akatora (Jun 13, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> They seem more like real people. They often don't lead lives where they're set-up for greatness from day one, and many times are as remarkable as me or you.




Many times yeah, but there's exceptions.
For instance Something like Ichigo 100% don't strike me as all that different from something that could happen in reallity.(Though the chance of 1 guy being hunted by that many girls well not impossible, but unlikely to that degree)

And it is mostly the main character of the shounen that is exceptional, the other characters are usually much more "normal"


----------



## Aldric (Jun 13, 2008)

Akatora said:


> The simple thing you say that "characterization" is much lower in Shounen
> 
> Could you give some exsamples.
> On the better ones that is.
> ...



They feel more like real human beings and not caricatures or hollow puppets moved by the author pudgy fingers

In Berserk for ex you have entire chapters dedicated to Guts' introspection, you get to see what he thinks, how he feels

This has nothing to do with being published monthly or weekly


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 13, 2008)

Lilykt7 said:


> one piece is a good manga but I don't see why people consider it just SO amazing.



Because compared to Naruto and Bleach it is amazing.


----------



## Lilykt7 (Jun 14, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Because compared to Naruto and Bleach it is amazing.



I still think it's a matter of opinion. I personally never got into one piece although to be fair the first time I ever even saw one piece was through the 4kids dub.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 14, 2008)

Lilykt7 said:


> I still think it's a matter of opinion. I personally never got into one piece although to be fair the first time I ever even saw one piece was through the 4kids dub.



Well that's probably why you didn't get into it if you're thinking the 4kids dub is anything close to the original version. I mean heck you should go out buy the Funi Piece uncut box sets and try those then or at least read the manga.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 14, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Because compared to Naruto and Bleach it is amazing.


Actually there are times where i want to see the next Bleach chapter more than OP

Thats more personal opinion anyway though


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 14, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> Actually there are times where i want to see the next Bleach chapter more than OP
> 
> Thats more personal opinion anyway though



Well I can understand you feeling that way... NOW.

But if it was back during the whole Ichigo vs Grimmjaw thing... I'd have to question you a bit on that.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 14, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Are you talking about the one where we see that Sasuke's being such a great little hero? You know, planning to slaughter the *elders of a village that didn't do shit to him*? Allying with a criminal organization?
> 
> Well, trolls will be trolls.



You should stop reading fanfiction. The sauce's actions are always rightious and just.

I just read the latest OP, it came close, but Naruto still trumped it in the end.
Once GARp hits shabondy i might have to change my opinion


----------



## Gary (Jun 14, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> You should stop reading fanfiction. The sauce's actions are always rightious and just.
> 
> I just read the latest OP, it came close, but Naruto still trumped it in the end.
> Once GARp hits shabondy i might have to change my opinion



going against every thing and start a war isn't rightious


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 14, 2008)

Gary said:


> going against every thing and start a war isn't rightious



Everything Sasuke sama does is righteous and Just


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 14, 2008)

Sasuke is a prick, Team Hawk is a joke, the whole manga has entered the realm of utter fail now. 



> Actually there are times where i want to see the next Bleach chapter more than OP



Szayel v Mayuri fight was the first time I anticipated Bleach much more then the other two shonens.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 14, 2008)

I just thought of something interesting. The way Naruto is going now, there will be another
Konoha destruction arc. Sasuke will pretty much be the Orochimaru of that arc (creepy
isn't it). Since Orochimaru killed the Third, Sasuke could end up killing Tsunade. Sadly,
I have no doubt Sasuke could do this because he is so overpowered now.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 14, 2008)

armorknight said:


> I just thought of something interesting. The way Naruto is going now, there will be another
> Konoha destruction arc. Sasuke will pretty much be the Orochimaru of that arc (creepy
> isn't it). Since Orochimaru killed the Third, *Sasuke could end up killing Tsunade. *Sadly,
> I have no doubt Sasuke could do this because he is so overpowered now.


Sasuke sama will only kill the elders. Sasuke sama doesn't hurt the innocent, he's a saint pek


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 14, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Well I can understand you feeling that way... NOW.
> 
> But if it was back during the whole Ichigo vs Grimmjaw thing... I'd have to question you a bit on that.


Oh no, back at the HM arc just wanted Bleach to die a painful death.

Extremly painful.


----------



## Shiftle (Jun 14, 2008)

Currently, I'm bracing myself for the moment when Kishi destroys the last remaining good character in Naruto (Kisame). Having to ally with Sasuke already puts him on a slippery slope to faildom.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 14, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Sasuke sama will only kill the elders. Sasuke sama doesn't hurt the innocent, he's a saint pek



You have a poster of Sasuke on your ceiling don't you?


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 14, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Sasuke sama will only kill the elders. Sasuke sama doesn't hurt the innocent, he's a saint pek



Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Educate us more, please. Seriously, Sasuke is the furthest thing from a saint. He wants to attack a village that his brother (After being hideously retconned) tried to protect.


----------



## Fang (Jun 14, 2008)

I just like how more or less, with a few inadverent attempts, the entire Naruto manga series is a total joke with Part II. Itachi, Deidara, Kakuzu, Hidan, and Orochimaru were all killed off within fifty-five chapters of each other. Amazing right?

And this Team Hawk/Snake business was incessantly stupid to begin with. And yet somehow, Hecudo Mundo's Arc in Bleach was still worse.

I mean Grimmjow and Ichigo's fight downright sucked.


----------



## Tash (Jun 14, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Everything Sasuke sama does is righteous and Just





Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Sasuke sama will only kill the elders. Sasuke sama doesn't hurt the innocent, he's a saint pek


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 14, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> I just like how more or less, with a few inadverent attempts, the entire Naruto manga series is a total joke with Part II. Itachi, Deidara, Kakuzu, Hidan, and Orochimaru were all killed off within fifty-five chapters of each other. Amazing right?
> 
> And this Team Hawk/Snake business was incessantly stupid to begin with. And yet somehow, Hecudo Mundo's Arc in Bleach was still worse.
> 
> I mean Grimmjow and Ichigo's fight downright sucked.



The only thing that makes HM worse than the Uchiha fight, was the unintentional LOL factor that Naruto has had since.

If it weren't for all of the unintentionally funny moments throughout the Uchiha fight, it would have been far worse than Byakuya vs. Zommari and Ichigo vs. Grimmjow combined. At least those two fights didn't take as long. 

The Uchiha Fight managed to be both rushed and dragged out at the same time, and somehow made Sasuke and Itachi even worse characters than they were before


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 14, 2008)

Nah the whole Noitra v Kenpachi was dragged to death. 

What annoys me is that Sasuke treated like he's the second coming or some shit, its so stupid, sitting like he's the head of fucking Akatsuki. Its unbearable to read at the moment.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 14, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> The only thing that makes HM worse than the Uchiha fight, was the unintentional LOL factor that Naruto has had since.
> 
> If it weren't for all of the unintentionally funny moments throughout the Uchiha fight, it would have been far worse than Byakuya vs. Zommari and Ichigo vs. Grimmjow combined. At least those two fights didn't take as long.
> 
> The Uchiha Fight managed to be both rushed and dragged out at the same time, and somehow made Sasuke and Itachi even worse characters than they were before



As much as the Uchiha fight sucked, I still think HM is a lot worse than it.
For starters, HM is a recycled SS arc with Orihime as the damsel in distress
instead of Rukia. The difference is that SS actually had good fights. Ichigo
vs. Grimmjow didn't live up to the hype. Byakuya's fight was an utter joke. 
Renji and Ishida were utter jokes themselves during their fight with SAG and got outshined by Mayuri in 2 chapters. Kenpachi's fight could have been good,
but he just had to pull that retarded deus ex machina at the end. Chad had his shining moment but got owned right after. And don't even get me started on the complete stupidity of Rukia's fight. The only way to redeem HM now
is with the Ulquiorra fight, but who knows how that'll turn out.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 14, 2008)

armorknight said:


> The only way to redeem HM now
> is with the Ulquiorra fight, but who knows how that'll turn out.



Horribly, most likely. We can only hope that Ulquiorra suddenly becomes a deep and meaningful character. 

Although it might, read MIGHT, get a good adaptation in the anime. Just look at Ichigo vs. Grimmjow.


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 14, 2008)

if you guys are going to judge Oda's early art look at how poorly drawn the first naruto chapters were. 

/thread.

and oda's art has progressed amazingly. PLUS right now the manga is ON FIRE, whilest naruto is JUST STARTING to get DECENT after a horrible itachi vs sasuke fight, which was entirely pointless since itachi was not even 100%.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 14, 2008)

Shoddragon said:


> if you guys are going to judge Oda's early art look at how poorly drawn the first naruto chapters were.
> 
> /thread.
> 
> and oda's art has progressed amazingly. PLUS right now the manga is ON FIRE, whilest naruto is JUST STARTING to get DECENT after a horrible itachi vs sasuke fight, which was entirely pointless since itachi was not even 100%.



Excuse me, but WHAT? We've only been talking about how much One Piece rocks for the past, what, 5 pages?


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 14, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Excuse me, but WHAT? We've only been talking about how much One Piece rocks for the past, what, 5 pages?



just putting that out there. because I know some people who say trash about the art of one piece.

I'm only here to spread its awesomeness.


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 14, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> *Nah the whole Noitra v Kenpachi was dragged to death. *
> 
> What annoys me is that Sasuke treated like he's the second coming or some shit, its so stupid, sitting like he's the head of fucking Akatsuki. Its unbearable to read at the moment.



LOLZ.

Kenpachi: OH NOES. If I KEEP LOSING BLOOD, I MIGHT JUST DIE. I DIDN't THINK PEOPLE DIE FROM DE BLOOD LOSS.

Noitra: HAHA YOUR GOING TO DIE, FEEL MY 6 ARMS OF DEATH!

Kenpachi: LOLZ I am going to pull a secret techinque out of my ass 3 seconds before I die, its called USING 2 HANDS INSTEAD OF 1 LOL.

Noitra: NO WAY. HOW DID YOU FIGURE OUT 2 hands on a sword> 1. O NOES MY 1 WEAKNESS *dies*

horrible PIS fight. Everyone's told me the same thing, Hueco mundo= soul society clone. I don't even bring bleach to the table to criticize anymore because of hoe bad its getting, especially with this humongous flashback.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 14, 2008)

Shoddragon said:


> LOLZ.
> 
> Kenpachi: OH NOES. If I KEEP LOSING BLOOD, I MIGHT JUST DIE. I DIDN't THINK PEOPLE DIE FROM DE BLOOD LOSS.
> 
> ...



I'd rep this if I could. Anyway...

Announcer: Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the amazing Byakuya vs. Zommari fight! Now we get to see this awesome Espada beat Byakuya's sorry ass into the ground!
Audience: YAY!!!

Zommari: Well, here's Rukia. Time to die, Rukia, time to die.
Byakuya: Helloz!!! What are you doing here?
(Zommari starts zooming around.)
Zommari: I are so awesome I can kill you!!! Look, I make after-images!!!
(Byakuya cuts an afterimage.)
Byakuya: Shit!!!
Zommari: Guess what? I are more awesome than you!
Byakuya: No, hollow, I are more awesome than you.
Zommari: No, I am more awesome than...
(The two fighters blabber on for a few minutes. Then...)
Byakuya: I are faster than you!!!
Zommari: No way! Let me kill you using... The Chicken DANCE!!!
Byakuya:
(Zommari releases using the Chicken Dance.)
Byakuya: Ooh, look, a pumpkin. It's so scary!
Zommari: Buahahahahaha!!! Look at your hand!
Byakuya: Oh noez, it's attacking me! I've got a solution! Instead of cutting the guy controlling my arm, I'll cut myself and go emo!!!
Zommari: Buahhahahahahahaha! I have the most retardedly broken ability in the entire fucking manga, but I'm not going to use it correctly. You know why? Because I'm better than you!
Byakuya: No you're not! 
Zommari: Yes I am...
(For another few minutes, the fighters blabber on.)
Hanataro: Hey guys, what's happening?
Byakuya: Get back, phailure.
Hanataro:
Zommari: Look, I'm stealing your sister!
(Rukia slices Hanataro)
Hanataro:
Rukia: Now I'm going to cut myself!
Announcer: It was only a matter of time...
Byakuya: No you're not. No HAXXORS pumpkin will kill my sister!
Zommari: Dammit! Time to kill you! 
Byakuya: Bankai.
Zommari: What?
Byakuya: Omnidirectional attack that should have killed Renjii!!!
Zommari:  Well, you're no fun.

Announcer: God dammit, this fight sucks! I need a better fight.
Itachi: You called?


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 14, 2008)

Shoddragon said:


> LOLZ.
> 
> Kenpachi: OH NOES. If I KEEP LOSING BLOOD, I MIGHT JUST DIE. I DIDN't THINK PEOPLE DIE FROM DE BLOOD LOSS.
> 
> ...



Actually, Turn Back the Pedulum has been surprisingly enjoyable, which is more than I can say about anything in Naruto since the end of the Rescue Gaara Arc (which actually, only had a few good moments. The rest of it was rather boring).

Hopefully the introduction of the top 3 Espada and the upcoming revelations in the flashback can make Bleach somewhat interesting again when the main story returns. 

Naruto has lost all hope and has not shown any signs of a turnaround. In fact, it looks like Kishi is going to ruin his last worthwhile character (that still exists in the story, anyway), Kisame with this deal he is going to make with Team Hawk


----------



## Aku Shinigami (Jun 14, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Actually, Turn Back the Pedulum has been surprisingly enjoyable, which is more than I can say about anything in Naruto since the end of the Rescue Gaara Arc (which actually, only had a few good moments. The rest of it was rather boring).
> 
> Hopefully the introduction of the top 3 Espada and the upcoming revelations in the flashback can make Bleach somewhat interesting again when the main story returns.
> 
> Naruto has lost all hope and has not shown any signs of a turnaround. In fact, it looks like Kishi is going to ruin his last worthwhile character (that still exists in the story, anyway), Kisame with this deal he is going to make with Team Hawk



I have to agree, Bleach is on an upward trajectory with this latest arc while naruto is just crashing further and further. We can only hope that the awesomeness that a Aizen-Yamamoto fight would be will come soon and less attention will be paid to the Uliquorra-Ichigo fight.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 15, 2008)

Pretty much agree on Bleach being pretty awesome.

Naruto...


----------



## strongest clan (Jun 15, 2008)

compared to bleach, naruto  kicks ass


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 15, 2008)

strongest clan said:


> compared to bleach, naruto  kicks ass


lol

No

Compared to Bleach naruto still sucks


----------



## armorknight (Jun 15, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> I'd rep this if I could. Anyway...
> 
> Announcer: Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the amazing Byakuya vs. Zommari fight! Now we get to see this awesome Espada beat Byakuya's sorry ass into the ground!
> Audience: YAY!!!
> ...



Sadly, this is an excellent description of the Byakuya vs. Zommari fight. Also,
I hope that Naruto doesn't start recycling arcs like Bleach did. The Konoha
destruction arc is in danger of being recycled, but it'll suck cuz Sasuke is
attacking this time.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 15, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> I'd rep this if I could. Anyway...
> 
> Announcer: Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the amazing Byakuya vs. Zommari fight! Now we get to see this awesome Espada beat Byakuya's sorry ass into the ground!
> Audience: YAY!!!
> ...



You forgot to mention how the black guy begs for his life from the rich white guy and then the rich white guy kills him anyway.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 15, 2008)

Sylar said:


> You forgot to mention how the black guy begs for his life from the rich white guy and then the rich white guy kills him anyway.



You don't see THAT in most manga!


----------



## MakeEmum (Jun 15, 2008)

Shoddragon said:


> LOLZ.
> 
> Kenpachi: OH NOES. If I KEEP LOSING BLOOD, I MIGHT JUST DIE. I DIDN't THINK PEOPLE DIE FROM DE BLOOD LOSS.
> 
> ...



Compare to the other fights Zaraki's was pretty good, The whole Kendo thing while it wasn't a Bankai or anything it was pretty clever in a way and I don't really know how a purely physical fight can have horrible PIS, especially when there's fights like Zomari's and Rukia's


----------



## Shiftle (Jun 15, 2008)

I have to disagree. Kendo was a huge mistake on Kubo's part. Seriously, he could've drawn the exact same panels and just changed the dialogue from "OMGZ 2 hands > 1" to "[insert Shikai name here]" and the fight would've been at least passable. I mean it's been strongly, strongly foreshadowed that Kenpachi will eventually learn Shikai and possibly Bankai, and that fight was the perfect opportunity. Kubo totally missed it.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> You don't see THAT in most manga!



True, got to give Kubo credit for daring to tread new ground.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 15, 2008)

Wow, I hope this isn't one piece fantards talking about naruto and bleach fights? Because Luffy is about to take a piss on a marine admiral, which makes the marines more of a joke then they already are.....


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 15, 2008)

Yeah try again. When people are talking about fighting, they're referring to choreography, creativity etc. Naruto simply sucks at it since almost everyone uses the same shit in the same manner every time. Bleach is just slashshunposlashceroshunposlash or some variation of that shit. 

Though you seem to have missed the fact on how powerful Luffy has become.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 15, 2008)

sooo Luffy pissing on the world government is fine, bleach getting rid of some folder espada isn't or sasuke barely beating itachi who was going to die anyway.....besides there is nothing creative about watching Luffy spam class 100 punches repeadly, really only creative fight in one piece is croc vs luffy or enel vs luffy considering how luffy while defying all the laws of physics somehow got over the metal ball stuck to hand problem.


----------



## Midus (Jun 15, 2008)

Glad that you can predict the future. Can I borrow your time machine. I'd really like to see how HxH ends.

Are you seriously irked about the law of physics being violated in Manga?!


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 15, 2008)

not really concerned about physics, it's just that one piece is soo horrendously over the top there is no real reason to some random one piece tard to go lol'ing at ANY shounens fights for lack of less ridiculous conclusions.... So your telling me Luffy won't shove his cock down some random generals ass before this arc ends? what version of one piece are you reading and can you send me a link?


----------



## Midus (Jun 15, 2008)

I'd like to ask you the same thing. There are multiple ways in which this can be resolved. Its not even certain that Luffy will fight an Admiral with the WG paying attention to Whitebeard right now. Everything up to now shows that the SHs can't handle an admiral. If anything, Rahleigh will be the one to take on the admiral an alliance of pirates will do it. Maybe if you trolled less and read more, you'd see this.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 15, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> sooo Luffy pissing on the world government is fine, bleach getting rid of some folder espada isn't or sasuke barely beating itachi who was going to die anyway.....besides there is nothing creative about watching Luffy spam class 100 punches repeadly, really only creative fight in one piece is croc vs luffy or enel vs luffy considering how luffy while defying all the laws of physics somehow got over the metal ball stuck to hand problem.



In case you haven't noticed, there is move spamming in every shounen. Ichigo
spams sword strikes and getsuga. Naruto spams rasengan and kage buneshin,
both of which he can't utilize properly. The thing is, Luffy and Ichigo deserved
to win their battles unlike Naruto. That kid has the most retarded underdog
syndrome I've ever seen.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 15, 2008)

> Can I borrow your time machine. I'd really like to see how HxH ends.



Can I borrow it too.

And the only reason I currently like Bleach is because Kubo isn't making the story up as he goes, looks like he planned it out properly unlike Kishi. And lets be honest here, OP isn't really a manga if you want the fights to be accurately done, read HxH instead.


----------



## Midus (Jun 15, 2008)

Only reason I still like Bleach so much is because I stopped reading it for the story a long time ago. I could care less what happens at this point and the author seems to feel the same. I'm in it for the Over the top fighting scenes and the Hot females.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 15, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> Wow, I hope this isn't one piece fantards talking about naruto and bleach fights? Because Luffy is about to take a piss on a marine admiral, which makes the marines more of a joke then they already are.....



You mean how Naruto characters make Akatsuki look ALL THE TIME?!

OH SHIT!


----------



## Akatora (Jun 15, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Horribly, most likely. We can only hope that Ulquiorra suddenly becomes a deep and meaningful character.
> 
> Although it might, read MIGHT, get a good adaptation in the anime. Just look at Ichigo vs. Grimmjow.




True, even as big a fan of bleach as i am and even If Grimm is one of my favorite characters... There third fight in the manga felt awfully long.
I don't really see it as being that bad a fight at all when you get to read it in 1 go.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 15, 2008)

> I don't really see it as being that bad a fight at all when you get to read it in 1 go



Read week after week of useless panels then you'd understand how half of us felt, it was a crap fight. Same with most of HM fights, except Mayuri v Szayel ofcourse.


----------



## MdB (Jun 16, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> not really concerned about physics, it's just that one piece is soo horrendously over the top there is no real reason to some random one piece tard to go lol'ing at ANY shounens fights for lack of less ridiculous conclusions.... So your telling me Luffy won't shove his cock down some random generals ass before this arc ends? what version of one piece are you reading and can you send me a link?



Since when does anyone like OP for its fights?


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 16, 2008)

since when does anyone need a reason to read One Piece, it's like the old 90's loony tones....


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 16, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> since when does anyone need a reason to read One Piece, it's like the old 90's loony tones....



Wuzzman, why don't you debate here? Tell us reasons why Naruto is better than One Piece, okay? It's better than just insulting it without reason.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 16, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Wuzzman, why don't you debate here? Tell us reasons why Naruto is better than One Piece, okay? It's better than just insulting it without reason.



I think what Wuzzman is trying to say is that he likes Naruto better because
it has constant angst and emo. But really, shounen should never rely on those
2 things in their plot. Naruto's angst levels are dangerously close to Vampire
Knight's, and that's just creepy. In manga form, all this angst and emo can be
overlooked because reading a chapter takes 2 minutes. If you're watching a
30-minute long anime, however, it's downright sickening. This is exactly why
the Shippuden anime fails right now. It doesn't have comedy to waste time
with like Bleach and OP do, so disheartening dialogue is used to waste time
instead.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 16, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> since when does anyone need a reason to read One Piece, it's like the old 90's loony tones....



How the fuck is One Piece anything like Looney Tunes?


----------



## Druggeisturm (Jun 17, 2008)

looney tunes is teh best cartoon ever created


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 17, 2008)

armorknight said:


> I think what Wuzzman is trying to say is that he likes Naruto better because
> it has constant angst and emo. But really, shounen should never rely on those
> 2 things in their plot. Naruto's angst levels are dangerously close to Vampire
> Knight's, and that's just creepy. In manga form, all this angst and emo can be
> ...



The reason I don't debate here C. Hook is because 
1. Your assumption that just because I wouldn't buy Oda sperm, means I naruto > one piece
2. your assumption that one piece < naruto 
3. that I like naruto because of angst emo crap.

This thread has gone way beyond the realm of intelligent debate long ago.

Who said naruto is better than one piece? but the one piece tard that is mad because I don't think one piece is tier 1... to be honest I don't mention naruto faults because i frankly don't find the need to bash a manga who's anime I don't even watch anymore (thats how bad shippuden is) and i find the naruto bashing arguments currently very idiotic that even partially argeeing with someone who is obnoxious enough to say "SASUKE IS EMO-HARD GAY" is pretty much against I don't know my brain?    

But for the lol's let me list some naruto hate i carry

1. kakashi > naruto? Are you fucking serious kishi? yes, yes naruto is suppose to become this big man in a few more arcs....so what? The purpose of a fucking time skip is to allow for the main character and other characters to do MOST OF THEIR CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT OFF SCREEN. Why does Naruto does the exact opposite of that? You know why alot of people now like Sakura? It's because she done MOST OF HER CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT OFF SCREEN, THUS FILLING THE PURPOSE OF A TIME SKIP. You know why naruto sucks as a main character right now, NONE OF HIS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT WAS DONE OFF SCREEN THUS HE HAS NOT GROWN UP AT ALL SINCE PART 1, WHICH IN TURN DEFEATS THE VERY PURPOSE OF THE FUCKING TIME SKIP. 

Naruto should have already been a "man" by the time we first see him. he is not a man and we are going through very painful guess work trying to figure out when he will become a man, and even at that while he is still very much a boy, we expect him to be equals with kakashi? Darn for character development. Another thing, a grown up Naruto would INTERNALIZE his angst concerning Sasuke, it shouldn't be in our faces 100% of the time we see Naruto...

2. Choji, Neji, Rock Lee, Ino, Hinata, Shino, and someone other people i'm missing, but basically all I have to say is this....WTF happened? Did they all except for Shikarmu become folder in 2 years? I mean we need a LOT of redemption here. There screen time is mostly unimpressive and redundant, something i really don't want to say about ANY konoha nin since they are all colorful(supposedly). Part 2 reminds me alot of DB GT, even if you didn't watch DBZ or DB for that matter, it didn't matter, the plot only required 3 characters anyway...

That summarizes my view on part 2 of naruto, the sasuke arcs don't bother me, Sasuke was never a healthy character so his decision is a given, and 99.99% of the sasuke hate is quite irrational so I get more annoyed reading remarks of the sasuke arcs then i do the actual chapters. 


Maybe I'll do bleach later, but really the remarks on bleach is amazing idiotic. Bleach has exactly 1 arc, 1 arc that is far below the standard set by the previous arcs before. Bleach doesn't magically become a tier 5 manga because of one shitty arc......

With this in mind considering what one piece has offered me as the reader? I don't consider it superior to bleach or naruto, the majority of chapters in one piece is quite medicore, and i am soo not digging the current arc (thriller back wasn't bad to me btw what can you expect about an arc about zombies??). Personally if Oda is going the path I'm sure he is taking at least give me some D Rogers story line some way, some how, before this arc ends with luffy punching out someone that he shouldn't be able to.....Knowing more about D Rogers is probably be not only epic, but allow for more gauging of the one piece worlds power level and were luffy stands currently. One Piece, Bleach, and Naruto are all in the same boat to me, and One Piece doesn't have enough win to convince me other wise...(I'm looking at you SogeKing...)


----------



## armorknight (Jun 17, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> The reason I don't debate here C. Hook is because
> 1. Your assumption that just because I wouldn't buy Oda sperm, means I naruto > one piece
> 2. your assumption that one piece < naruto
> 3. that I like naruto because of angst emo crap.
> ...



I don't think OP is godly compared to Naruto. The reason I made my emo/angst comment was because of your looney tunes comment. Naruto
is just as childish as OP is. Your first point, however, is the one main reason
why Naruto (both the series and character) piss me off right now. Naruto
should have evolved during the timeskip. In fact there are 3 major things
he should have done:

1. Learn to fully control the kyubi with 3 tails

2. Learn to use rasengan and kage buneshin properly

3. Get a grip on his emotions

Naruto hasn't done any of these things, and it really pisses me off. 

This brings me to another point. The reason OP is a bit better than Naruto to
me right now is because OP just flat out makes better use of its characters.
I truly feel that all of Luffy's wins were well deserved, unlike Naruto's.

On a side note, I think that Sasuke hate is mostly justified. The guy is one
of the worst shounen main characters i have ever seen. Actually, so
is Naruto for that matter.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 17, 2008)

Naruto right now is going through a period of fail......I still read because one period of fail != the entire manga is shit (!=; basically means it is not equal to; if you didn't know).

I think naruto mastered the rasengan and kage buneshin at this point, unless when you mean master you mean he can do it with one hand..


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jun 17, 2008)

People dissing Naruto/Bleach for lack of strategy and praising OP? Hardly anyone uses strategy in Op...there are cool attacks though.  OP is good for humor, dialogue and memorable characters(good and bad) as well as the epic scale of the world.  People who watch it for the fights...I don't know what to say.

You know what's funny? I just read the recent Bleach chapters and they had me more interested than either of the other two.  Too bad it will return to the present where I could give a shit about anything happening...Bleach should just stay in ss.  I'd rather actually count down the chapters to zero from -100 then read another espada fight.


----------



## Midus (Jun 17, 2008)

Best to ignore Wuzzman. He's a One Piece troll(Maybe not a One Piece troll, but a One Piece fan troll) from what I've seen in both this topic and others. I find people like this far more annoying than any series' fanboys


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 17, 2008)

I still have hope for bleach after this flashback arc

I mean, it show Kubo can make really good arcs if he tries...


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 17, 2008)

Midus said:


> Best to ignore Wuzzman. He's a One Piece troll(Maybe not a One Piece troll, but a One Piece fan troll) from what I've seen in both this topic and others. I find people like this far more annoying than any series' fanboys



whats wrong with being a troll of fantards ^_^


----------



## Eldritch (Jun 17, 2008)

lol apparently some people aren't satisfied with OP being third in the trinity.


----------



## The Doctor (Jun 17, 2008)

dawindmaka said:


> lol apparently some people aren't satisfied with OP being third in the trinity.



And since when OP is the third?


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 17, 2008)

uh oh here we go


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

> People dissing Naruto/Bleach for lack of strategy and praising OP? Hardly anyone uses strategy in Op...there are cool attacks though. OP is good for humor, dialogue and memorable characters(good and bad) as well as the epic scale of the world. People who watch it for the fights...I don't know what to say.



There's no strategy in Naruto/Bleach either. Most of the time it's just spamming the same damn move over and over. Whether it's rasengan, chidori, or kage buushin. I'm sure you can very well see the same damn thing in Bleach without me having to tell you.

Yeah One Piece doesn't relaly have any strategy either but at least Luffy doesn't spam Gomu Gomu no Pistol all the time and has a whole lot of fucking moves to choose from. Unlike Naruto and Bleach characters One Piece characters have at least more than one fucking move in their arsenal.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> There's no strategy in Naruto/Bleach either. Most of the time it's just spamming the same damn move over and over. Whether it's rasengan, chidori, or kage buushin. I'm sure you can very well see the same damn thing in Bleach without me having to tell you.


Sasuke Vs Deidara had stratergy in it, from both fighter. Deidara Vs Gaara also had stratergy. Sasuke Vs Itachi also had some stratergy.


> Yeah One Piece doesn't relaly have any strategy either but at least Luffy doesn't spam Gomu Gomu no Pistol all the time


Luffy spams gumo gumo pistol all the time. Its always the first move he uses.


> and has a whole lot of fucking moves to choose from


Sasuke has a bigger move set than luffy.



> Unlike Naruto and Bleach characters One Piece characters have at least more than one fucking move in their arsenal.



most captain level shinigami in bleach have a shikai, bankai and Kidou. Hardly one move. The same goes for most Ninjas in Naruto, they have all the basic academy jutsu and their own unique jutsu.

wank to One piece moar




I love how the OP turds claim PIS and PNJ from Naruto and Bleach, yet one piece is just as guilty. Crocodile should've killed luffy.

God enel:"instead of killing joo nao strawhat, ama put this golden ball on yo hands and throw joo off ma ship"
God Enel:"wha, strawhat is gona use gomu gomu no Golden rifle? let me turn off ma mantra noa, so that I won't be able to dodge it "


How about gear 2, while its one of my favourite powerups in manga, the way luffy gained screamed of Oda pulling it out of his ass. there was no foreshadowing at all. Luffy didn't have time to train at all yet he mastered it all in a day. Some of the biggest bullshit I've seen in manga. And don't even get me started on Nami's fights.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 17, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> And since when OP is the third?



you know I was not going to visit this thread again at least for another few days but I can't help but bash one piece, as another fantard attempts to make a tier 3 manga a tier 1 or 2...why doesn't anyone realize that overrated one piece is extremely disrespectful to authors who produce manga that are 2x better then one piece will ever hope to be. 

In one piece defense, at least he doesn't spam pistol...

Now in flame, nami 2x plot shields of invulnerability. It's kinda funny how ODB'ers figure one piece has magically entered the realm of bullet timers and class 100 strength, when Nami is....still alive? Nami plot-shielding in the face of the huge power curve gets funnier and funnier, since everyone in one piece has plot-shielding(to prevent them from actually dieing from all the class 100 punches being thrown around) yet only Nami manages to win regardless of the very rules within one piece telling her that she must lose to keep constituency. Nami loses her 2x plot - shielding...well she dies, but one piece would probably be a better manga  

luffy gears are also flame worthy. Basically in any of the loony tone cartoons, characters would literally pull shit out of their ass in the hopes that whatever ill-conceived plans would formed with their newly acquired item manages to be somewhat useful. The great thing about loony tones is that the plans usually don't stray stray too far from that characters actual intelligence....One Piece takes shounen law to new heights. See in shounen rookie = EXPERT, which is why i chuckled when Luffy was called a rookie. This goes a step further with one piece where new moves just invented now = 2000 YEARS WORTH OF EXPERIENCE REGARDING THAT MOVE. Thus Luffy jumps in actual intelligence by leaps and bounds when Oda "says so", cause it's "cool" and showing Luffy hit and miss on screen is "fail". Now we can all assume that Luffy, Sanji, and Zora do a bit of off screen training, but any non fanboy would see a "i wonder if this will work..." when he shown one. Ironicly Nami is constituent in this area, but her fights are filled with so much plot that we don't care if Nami misses a few times...


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 17, 2008)

Please for the sake of all of us, learn the difference between good and bad storytelling. 

However inconsistent Oda might be with the characters' strength, at the very least he manages to be consistent with the overall quality and plot. Which is something that Naruto and Bleach horribly fail at. 

And lol @ the constant LOL DURR LOONEY TOONES HURR DURR. That's not valid criticism. Being goofy doesn't equal to being inferior to other mangas that "try" to be serious. Hell, just because some Disney movies are kiddy doesn't mean that they aren't better than the shit Kishi is writing right now.


----------



## Legend of Zelda (Jun 17, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> I still have hope for bleach after this flashback arc
> 
> I mean, it show Kubo can make really good arcs if he tries...



You're kidding right?

It's going straight into a Ichigo/Ulquwhatever. It's going to make the Uchiha fight look incredible.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 17, 2008)

> It's going straight into a Ichigo/Ulquwhatever. It's going to make the Uchiha fight look incredible.



You wish, to me it seems like Kubo has planned the rest of the events out, unlike Kishi. I expect an epic battle, heres hoping Kubo does something with Orihime aswell.


----------



## Legend of Zelda (Jun 17, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> You wish, to me it seems like Kubo has planned the rest of the events out, unlike Kishi. I expect an epic battle, heres hoping Kubo does something with Orihime aswell.



He's bad at fights. Nearly every fight in HC was horrendous. It's more than likely going to just like half the other Bleach fights. 

*Generic energy blast, Generic sword slash, Ichigo uses plot, Ulquiwhatever dies.*

That's how every fight Ichigo's been in has played out since SS. And something I used to hear fans say was that Ulqui is going to have a change of heart or some nonsense. That would be enough to make me deem it as horrible.

I didn't really care for one piece till Thriller Bark which the fans seem to hate.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 17, 2008)

~Shin~ said:


> Please for the sake of all of us, learn the difference between good and bad storytelling.
> 
> However, inconsistent Oda might be with the characters' strength, at the very least he manages to be consistent with the overall quality and plot. Which is something that Naruto and Bleach horribly fail at.
> 
> And lol @ the constant LOL DURR LOONEY TOONES HURR DURR. That's not valid criticism. Being goofy doesn't equal to being inferior to other mangas that "try" to be serious. Hell, just because some Disney movies are kiddy doesn't mean that they aren't better than the shit Kishi is writing right now.



I never said inferior, I just don't consider superior, at least not better then Hajime no Ippo (which is approaching classic levels)... just because one fail isn't better then nartard or bleek doesn't mean I consider it a shitty manga, just means nartard and bleek aren't shitter then the majority of one fail....

one piece and story? does two even mix together? one piece = awesome factor, any and everything done in one piece is done because it = awesome. So;
awesome > plot
awesome > character development
awesome > thought out fights
awesome > luffy character
awesome > nami existence

sure you do have a decent story, character, luffy, and a reasonable Nami, but they all take vacations to the awesome factor. Why did Zoro take all of Luffy's pain even though Luffy wasn't going to die anyway? Cause thats awesome . The story in one piece takes periodic vacations as well, meaning I can skip a few chapters and not miss much.Basically attempting to only watch the awesomeness of a rubberman beating the crap out of someone (makes being bitten by a radioactive spiderman kinda noob in comparison). After i confirmed that luffy is awesome i may back track a few chapters to check on zoro and sanji. Thriller bark was exactly the same way, skip a few chapters, nightmare luffy, some bam bam, go back and read the previous chapters. 

In naruto and bleach plot = everything

plot > character development
plot > logic....

I'm going to try say saying 1 thing negative about naruto/bleach to balance out the 2-3 things negative I say about one piece. Really depends on the intelligence of the one fail fanboy I'm responding to.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 17, 2008)

Ennoea said:
			
		

> You wish, to me it seems like Kubo has planned the rest of the events out, unlike Kishi. I expect an epic battle, heres hoping Kubo does something with Orihime aswell.



Byakuyapek is going to pwn Uquirora, bitchigo is gonna dai.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 17, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> I never said inferior, I just don't consider superior, at least not better then Hajime no Ippo (which is approaching classic levels)... just because one fail isn't better then nartard or bleek doesn't mean I consider it a shitty manga, just means nartard and bleek aren't shitter then the majority of one fail....
> 
> one piece and story? does two even mix together? one piece = awesome factor, any and everything done in one piece is done because it = awesome. So;
> awesome > plot
> ...



OP actually cares about its plot just as much as Naruto does. It just isn't as
obvious because of all the comedy in OP. Bleach, on the other hand, has
always been about the fights until the flashback arc started. Bleach has
just started to care about plot.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 17, 2008)

I will say 1 thing

after this week I wish Naruto and Bleach good luck in keeping up


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 17, 2008)

^Agreed. After seeing the new OP spoilers i 



Legend of Zelda said:


> You're kidding right?
> 
> It's going straight into a Ichigo/Ulquwhatever. It's going to make the Uchiha fight look incredible.



lol

A pair of teletubies fighting would be more interested than the Itachi fight.

And it actually looks like its going into something with the tope 3 espada and yamamoto, which is bound to be awesome.

Ichigo vs Ulquiorra? I dont have hope for that fight since Orihime is around, which means were going to get a lot of "ICHIGO " Screams coming up


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 17, 2008)

The one thing I find weird is that naruto and Bleach fandoms hate the main character 9/10 when they're pretty likable and while they aren't the best example of their character type(scrappy hardworker and talented caring guy) they're far from the worst. Even Luffy(Casual Commander) isn't the best in his.


SMH @ Hitsugaya and That One Guy that Died In The Chunnin Exams being more popular then the main character.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 17, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> you know I was not going to visit this thread again at least for another few days but I can't help but bash one piece, as another fantard attempts to make a tier 3 manga a tier 1 or 2...why doesn't anyone realize that overrated one piece is extremely disrespectful to authors who produce manga that are 2x better then one piece will ever hope to be.



Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice. You yourself said you were trolling, and you make a fistful of assumptions in that post. No one believes you "Can't help but bash One Piece."



Wuzzman said:


> In one piece defense, at least he doesn't spam pistol...



Well, pistol's a weakass attack. What do you expect?



Wuzzman said:


> Now in flame, nami 2x plot shields of invulnerability. It's kinda funny how ODB'ers figure one piece has magically entered the realm of bullet timers and class 100 strength, when Nami is....still alive?



Read Whiskey Peak arc  and Skypiea arc again. It's obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about. 



Wuzzman said:


> Nami plot-shielding in the face of the huge power curve gets funnier and funnier, since everyone in one piece has plot-shielding(to prevent them from actually dieing from all the class 100 punches being thrown around)



Luffy has plotshielding? That's hilarious. He's just fucking durable. Same with Zoro. Usopp's also fucking durable (An actual feat shown several times). Chopper usually doesn't go in fights where he gets sent against stronger opponents. The only times he did, he A.) Was helped by Usopp, and B.) Had to go Monster Form.



Wuzzman said:


> yet only Nami manages to win regardless of the very rules within one piece telling her that she must lose to keep constituency. Nami loses her 2x plot - shielding...well she dies, but one piece would probably be a better manga



First of all, Nami's a better character than any I have seen in Bleach, and definitely better than the two main characters of Naruto. Second of all, yeah, her plot shield sucks. Want to whine some more about it? Nami fights make such a tiny fraction of the chapters in One Piece that no one really cares.



Wuzzman said:


> luffy gears are also flame worthy. Basically in any of the loony tone cartoons, characters would literally pull shit out of their ass in the hopes that whatever ill-conceived plans would formed with their newly acquired item manages to be somewhat useful.



Shit out of the ass? First of all, I don't see you flaming Asura and Diable Jamble. At least the Gears make sense. Second of all, at least there's no damn training arc like in B/N (I've started to abreviate). Everyone HATES training arcs.



Wuzzman said:


> The great thing about loony tones is that the plans usually don't stray stray too far from that characters actual intelligence....One Piece takes shounen law to new heights. See in shounen rookie = EXPERT, which is why i chuckled when Luffy was called a rookie. This goes a step further with one piece where new moves just invented now = 2000 YEARS WORTH OF EXPERIENCE REGARDING THAT MOVE.



What? Thousands? Are you talking about when he learned Soru, by far the easiest move of Rokushiki? First of all, go to wikipedia and search up friggin Ichigo Kurosaki. Done?  Because he, not Luffy, is the complete epitome of this annoying trope. Each of the captains has spent thousands of years training, yet he managed to take down two of them. Naruto, although not as bad as Ichigo, has some poor moments too. Learning the Rasengan and Kami Bushin abilities that take master ninjas years, anyone?



Wuzzman said:


> Thus Luffy jumps in actual intelligence by leaps and bounds when Oda "says so", cause it's "cool" and showing Luffy hit and miss on screen is "fail". Now we can all assume that Luffy, Sanji, and Zora do a bit of off screen training, but any non fanboy would see a "i wonder if this will work..." when he shown one.



Offscreen training? Zoro's shown training on-screen several times. 

Anywho, you were talking about Luffy's intelligence? Why does everyone assume he's stupid? He's shown intelligence when arguing with Vivi, for example. Luffy's personality is one where he just doesn't care about what's happening. 

Besides, I notice how you're only whining about two issues: Nami's plot-shield that comes up every, what, 150 chapters, and Luffy's gear powerups. 



Wuzzman said:


> Ironicly Nami is constituent in this area, but her fights are filled with so much plot that we don't care if Nami misses a few times...



Another jab at Nami. Guess what? She still doesn't have many fights, and the ones she has usually don't last long.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 17, 2008)

Wow @ People defending OP like their honor is on the line or something. If someone doesn't like it don't worry just keep on enjoying it yourself. It has its' flaws, Naruto and Bleach have some too. Liking characters and power ups is just a personal thing.


----------



## Krauser-tan (Jun 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> There's no strategy in Naruto/Bleach either. Most of the time it's just spamming the same damn move over and over. Whether it's rasengan, chidori, or kage buushin. I'm sure you can very well see the same damn thing in Bleach without me having to tell you.
> 
> Yeah One Piece doesn't relaly have any strategy either but at least Luffy doesn't spam Gomu Gomu no Pistol all the time and has a whole lot of fucking moves to choose from. Unlike Naruto and Bleach characters One Piece characters have at least more than one fucking move in their arsenal.



Don't let your hatred blind you though, characters like pein, jiraya, sasori, kakuzu have shown more diversity in moves than anyone in one piece till now...

and yes, one piece is the better series out of the shonen trinity for me...and easily.


----------



## MdB (Jun 17, 2008)

Someone change the definition of butthurt to Wuzzman.


----------



## The Doctor (Jun 17, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> you know I was not going to visit this thread again at least for another few days but I can't help but bash one piece, as another fantard attempts to make a tier 3 manga a tier 1 or 2...why doesn't anyone realize that overrated one piece is extremely disrespectful to authors who produce manga that are 2x better then one piece will ever hope to be.



Seriously, are you retarded?!
Have you notice I quoted someone?!
Did I ever say tier 3 or some shit like that?!?!
Learn how to read.
You just wanted an excuse to bash One Piece.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 17, 2008)

> Wow @ People defending OP like their honor is on the line or something



Lol that so true.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 17, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Wow @ People defending OP like their honor is on the line or something. If someone doesn't like it don't worry just keep on enjoying it yourself. It has its' flaws, Naruto and Bleach have some too. Liking characters and power ups is just a personal thing.



Wuzzman's an annoying troll, so it's natural that some people (Like me) will give into the desire to attack him. I admit OP has its flaws (It's not even my favorite shounen), but it's annoying when people like Wuzzman attack fans of it.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 17, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Bleach and Naruto are vastly superior, no doubt about it.
> 
> OP is garbage in my opinion, just like its cousin Fairy Tail.



...Okay, good for you. No hard feelings. Just one question, though.

Can you name the villain that psychologically tortured one of the crewmates after murdering that crewmate's mother by shooting her in the head?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 17, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Bleach and Naruto are vastly superior, no doubt about it.
> 
> OP is garbage in my opinion, just like its cousin Fairy Tail.



Says the guy worshipping the most complex set of characters ever RITE


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 17, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Bleach and Naruto are vastly superior, no doubt about it.
> 
> OP is garbage in my opinion, just like its cousin Fairy Tail.


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 17, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Bleach and Naruto are vastly superior, no doubt about it.
> 
> OP is garbage in my opinion, just like its cousin Fairy Tail.



Bleach has improved, but it ain't near OP yet(nor will it ever).

Naruto, yeah, you would say that. The Uchiha are the only ones Kishi's done anything with for the last year. If the focus was on the actual main character, you and the rest of UG would be raging right now.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 17, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> The one thing I find weird is that naruto and Bleach fandoms hate the main character 9/10 when they're pretty likable and while they aren't the best example of their character type(scrappy hardworker and talented caring guy) they're far from the worst. Even Luffy(Casual Commander) isn't the best in his.
> 
> 
> SMH @ Hitsugaya and That One Guy that Died In The Chunnin Exams being more popular then the main character.



Don't know about Bleach but most of the time the most vehement Naruto haters are Uchiha fanboys

While they should really have no room to talk as they're fans of one of the worst fictional characters ever created


----------



## Legend of Zelda (Jun 17, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> Ichigo vs Ulquiorra? I dont have hope for that fight since Orihime is around, which means were going to get a lot of "ICHIGO " Screams coming up



Actually it'd be more like
KUROSAKI-KUN!!!!!

*Ichigo's head explodes from the scream*


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 17, 2008)

Legend of Zelda said:


> Actually it'd be more like
> KUROSAKI-KUN!!!!!
> 
> *Ichigo's head explodes from the scream*



Then Shirosaki comes out of the exploded head to kill that annoying girl.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 17, 2008)

She's a frickin cheerleader, here's hoping Ulquiorra's presence makes it an interesting scenario.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 17, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> The one thing I find weird is that naruto and Bleach fandoms hate the main character 9/10 when they're pretty likable and while they aren't the best example of their character type(scrappy hardworker and talented caring guy) they're far from the worst. Even Luffy(Casual Commander) isn't the best in his.
> 
> 
> SMH @ Hitsugaya and That One Guy that Died In The Chunnin Exams being more popular then the main character.



People hate Naruto because he takes his type too far and just fails no
matter what and then whines about it. People hate Itchigo because of
his bland personality. Luffy may not be the best casual commander, but he's
a pretty damn good one and is a better main character than Naruto
or Ichigo. Although, I guess Luffy's hyperactive nature might
put off some people.


----------



## Berry (Jun 17, 2008)

One Piece's next chapter will slaughter all.

Check out the spoilers


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Sasuke Vs Deidara had stratergy in it, from both fighter. Deidara Vs Gaara also had stratergy. Sasuke Vs Itachi also had some stratergy.
> Luffy spams gumo gumo pistol all the time. Its always the first move he uses.



um no there's nothing strategic about Sasuke's fights.

Arguably Shikamaru is the one with the strategic fights but all he does is spam Kage Mane no jutsu over and over again until he actually succeeds.

Luffy has over 20 different moves not counting the gears. His fighting style is a lot more varied. Same with the rest of the crew as well.



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Sasuke has a bigger move set than luffy.



chidori, sharingan, katon, genjutsu... nah he really doesn't. If Sasuke had a huge move set the Uchiha fight wouldn't have mostly been a genjutsu staring contest.



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> most captain level shinigami in bleach have a shikai, bankai and Kidou. Hardly one move. The same goes for most Ninjas in Naruto, they have all the basic academy jutsu and their own unique jutsu.
> 
> wank to One piece moar



When do Bleach characters ever use Kidou's? I think this current flashback has been probably one of the few times they actually use them. Mostly i t's always "shikai, slash, slash, bankai, slash, slash, special bankai move, slash, slash."

and the majority of ninjas in Naruto tend to use hand to hand combat along with spamming one same jutsu over and over. Except in Naruto's case where he spams the same two jutsu. Sandaime vs Orochimaru would be one of the exceptions but over all there are very few exceptions to this rule in Naruto.




Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I love how the OP turds claim PIS and PNJ from Naruto and Bleach, yet one piece is just as guilty. Crocodile should've killed luffy.
> 
> God enel:"instead of killing joo nao strawhat, ama put this golden ball on yo hands and throw joo off ma ship"
> God Enel:"wha, strawhat is gona use gomu gomu no Golden rifle? let me turn off ma mantra noa, so that I won't be able to dodge it "



How did Luffy not win against Crocodile fairly. He used his fucking blood like water to beat the shit out of crocodile. Luffy earned that win. Luffy also earned  his win against Enel as well.




Sasuke_fanboy said:


> How about gear 2, while its one of my favourite powerups in manga, the way luffy gained screamed of Oda pulling it out of his ass. there was no foreshadowing at all. Luffy didn't have time to train at all yet he mastered it all in a day. Some of the biggest bullshit I've seen in manga. And don't even get me started on Nami's fights.



Yes there was. Aokiji almost killing Luffy was the fucking foreshadowing.

and hey I wouldn't diss Nami's fights. Especially when you support Sakura fighting by punching the fucking ground constantly.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

Zaoldyeck said:


> Don't let your hatred blind you though, characters like pein, jiraya, sasori, kakuzu have shown more diversity in moves than anyone in one piece till now...
> 
> and yes, one piece is the better series out of the shonen trinity for me...and easily.



I'll agree. Pein and Kakuzu have shown variety but we're talking characters who actually get more than one fight. And besides look at how Kakuzu was taken out. The biggest example of PIS and all it amounted to was Naruto using a lame ass kage buushin trick and a modified rasengan. Naruto would have more variety if he actually learned something new. Just like how Sasuke would have more variety if he did more than just make several modifications to chidori and calling it a different jutsu when it's still basically chidori. Heck Kakashi should have variety he has a thousand fucking jutsus yet we don't even see him use many of them.

Jiraiya though... all he showed was rasengan, hermit mode, and a couple fire jutsus using toad oil, and Sasori? How does working a hundred puppets equal variety? And if we look at the side characters they don't have much variety either. Lee and Neji fight hand to hand. Ino's jutsu is worthless, Chouji is like shikamaru where he basically uses the same thing over and over. We don't get anything new from Kiba and Shino. Hinata and TenTen do absolutely nothing, and Sakura punches the ground.

Heck if I think about it Pein, Kakuzu, Orochimaru, and Sandaime are the only ones with a semblence of variety.


----------



## Krauser-tan (Jun 17, 2008)

well, yeah, i have to agree that sasori is more the "always with something up his sleeve" type.

even so, my opinion about the other 3 remain...and thank you for  reminding me about sandaime, he's with those 3 in terms of variety.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 17, 2008)

Ya know its sad that there are minor characters in OP that are 100x more awesome than any of the main characters for Naruto and Bleach combined.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

Zaoldyeck said:


> well, yeah, i have to agree that sasori is more the "always with something up his sleeve" type.
> 
> even so, my opinion about the other 3 remain...and thank you for remembering me about sandaime, he's with those 3 in terms of variety.



I would just like to see Kakashi do more than use the same jutsus. I mean if he's got a thousand jutsus he should use them.

and yeah Sandaime vs Orochimaru was probably one of the best fights in the series because it was so diverse. In comparison Naruto vs Gaara was basically Gaara throwing sand around and Naruto spamming Kage Buushin and Kyuubi power.

Speaking of which when has Naruto truly deserved any of his wins? Naruto didn't deserve to win against Kiba or Neji. He only won due to plot no jutsu. You'd never see Luffy farting in someone's face that's for sure. I'm pretty sure that Naruto didn't really deserve to win against Kakuzu either. I mean you just don't hupe up a guy whos seen a hundred years worth of battles and tied with the first hokage just for him to get owned by a sinple kage buushin trick that anyone with that much experience would have seen through.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I would just like to see Kakashi do more than use the same jutsus. I mean if he's got a thousand jutsus he should use them.
> 
> and yeah Sandaime vs Orochimaru was probably one of the best fights in the series because it was so diverse. In comparison Naruto vs Gaara was basically Gaara throwing sand around and Naruto spamming Kage Buushin and Kyuubi power.
> 
> Speaking of which when has Naruto truly deserved any of his wins? Naruto didn't deserve to win against Kiba or Neji. He only won due to plot no jutsu. You'd never see Luffy farting in someone's face that's for sure. I'm pretty sure that Naruto didn't really deserve to win against Kakuzu either. I mean you just don't hupe up a guy whos seen a hundred years worth of battles and tied with the first hokage just for him to get owned by a sinple kage buushin trick that anyone with that much experience would have seen through.



You didn't know? Because he's an 'underdog' (snicker) its OK for him to win by farting or by his opponent literally turning off their power or falling for a movie that someone with decades less experience thought was obvious.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

Sylar said:


> You didn't know? Because he's an 'underdog' (snicker) its OK for him to win by farting or by his opponent literally turning off their power or falling for a movie that someone with decades less experience thought was obvious.



Yeah too bad being the son of the greatest ninja in the series and having the Kyuubi inside of him kills the fact that he's an underdog.

Heck Gon is more of an underdog than Naruto will ever be.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 17, 2008)

i'll let this continue for a while


----------



## Kira-chan (Jun 17, 2008)

I don't know about the others, but Naruto earned the win against Neji I'd say.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 17, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> i'll let this continue for a while



Thanks for your permission.



> I don't know about the others, but Naruto earned the win against Neji I'd say.



Neji stopped in the middle of the fight, turned off his power for no reason at all, and started a monologue. No Naruto did not earn anything.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

Heck Naruto didn't even beat Gaara either. Gaara just plain surrendered... Well Temari and Kankuro surrendered for him but even so it counts as surrendering.

Gaara probably still could have fought.


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 17, 2008)

Gaara told Naruto to stay away from him. That sounded like a victory to me, and Naruto used Neji's arrogance against him.


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## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> Gaara told Naruto to stay away from him. That sounded like a victory to me.



He only told Naruto to stay away from him cause Naruto's never give up personality freaked him out. It had nothing to do with being beaten. Temari and Kankuro just showed up and went "look you won we're out of here. Later."

Doesn't sound like a victory to me.


----------



## Kira-chan (Jun 17, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Neji stopped in the middle of the fight, turned off his power for no reason at all, and started a monologue. No Naruto did not earn anything.


I don't see how that helped Naruto any, the situation wasn't any different when they restarted.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

Kira-chan said:


> I don't see how that helped Naruto any, the situation wasn't any different when they restarted.



Kishimoto likes making the villains more stupid than Naruto so that way Naruto can instantly win. If not for that Neji would have kicked Naruto's ass.


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 17, 2008)

You could say the same for Sasuke and how everyone who fights him isn't serious or is sick.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 17, 2008)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> You could say the same for Sasuke and how everyone who fights him isn't serious or is sick.



Yeah you could...


----------



## Sylar (Jun 17, 2008)

Kira-chan said:


> I don't see how that helped Naruto any, the situation wasn't any different when they restarted.



If Neji hadn't, for no reason at all, turned off his Byakugan he would have seen Naruto tunneling and Naruto would have lost.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 17, 2008)

Byakugan needs chakra to use......


----------



## Kira-chan (Jun 18, 2008)

Sylar said:


> If Neji hadn't, for no reason at all, turned off his Byakugan he would have seen Naruto tunneling and Naruto would have lost.


Like Wuzzman said Byakugan takes up chakra to use.  By that point Neji was tired and low on chakra from their clash, and he thought that Naruto was down.  You can't really blame him for not expecting another attack at that point, let alone one from below.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 18, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> Byakugan needs chakra to use......



So does the sharingan but that never stopped Sasuke now did it.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 18, 2008)

Byakugan, like sharingan, does not take much chakra to use if you have it
legitimately. I'm sure Neji had enough chakra left to use byakugan. Putting
that aside though, the fact that Naruto had to beg Kyubi for chakra automatically makes him not deserve the win regardless of everything else that just happened in his favor.

By the way, it's about that that Naruto made the Kyubi his bi*** 
instead of it being the other way around.

To be blatantly honest though, I decided to stop giving Naruto
any praise as a fighter a very long time ago.

Oh well, all shounen have flaws in their fights. Bleach and OP
have their own flaws as well. The thing that pisses me off is that
although Naruto is the main character, his fights are arguably
the worst in the series. It's sad that I look forward to seeing 
almost everyone else fight more than Naruto.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jun 18, 2008)

You know what I think? Fuck all 3...none of them are in my top 10 or even my favorite shounen...give the fucking fan wars a rest.  It gets really old...


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 18, 2008)

SMH @ The One Piece Dick Riding Movement

Get Over Yourselves It's A pretty Good Manga But It's Not That Good.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> um no there's nothing strategic about Sasuke's fights.


Deidara uses his c4 geruda. Sasuke uses his sharingan genjutsu to trick deidarra into thinking that he got hit. while deidarra is in a genjutsu, Sasuke hits him with a chidori.  But deidarra had already seen that sasuke used a genjutsu. He make a doton clone and makes his clone pretend that he was in a genjutsu. Sasuke thinking Deidarra was in genjutsu, attacks with a chidori. Deidarra reveals that what sasuke hit was actually a clone and proceeds to attack Sasuke with a C4 at close range.

are you saying thats not stratergy from both fighters? 



> Arguably Shikamaru is the one with the strategic fights but all he does is spam Kage Mane no jutsu over and over again until he actually succeeds.


Yes I'm a fan of Shikamaru's fights. though I thought his fight with hidan was fail.


> Luffy has over 20 different moves not counting the gears.


  


> His fighting style is a lot more varied. Same with the rest of the crew as well.







> chidori, sharingan, katon, genjutsu... nah he really doesn't. If Sasuke had a huge move set the Uchiha fight wouldn't have mostly been a genjutsu staring contest.


Gomo Gomo, Luffy only has one attack. stop generalising. Sasuke has 5 different types of raiton. 3 koton techniques. a lot of shuriken techniques, including using wires and shadow shuriken. He can use a sword and Kunai. He's got most of Rock Lee's taijutsu. He can use all academy level techniques. Sasuke has a greater and more varied move set than Luffy. Even the biggest sasuke haters will admit that.




> When do Bleach characters ever use Kidou's?


See Rukia and Byakuya. Hinamori uses a lot of kidou too. Aizen is another. 



> Mostly i t's always "shikai, slash, slash, bankai, slash, slash, special bankai move, slash, slash."


Thats Ichigo's fighting style. don't generalise the rest of SS cuz of his fail




> How did Luffy not win against Crocodile fairly. He used his fucking blood like water to beat the shit out of crocodile. Luffy earned that win.


 He won the fight fairly, I'm just saying he should've died the second time they fought. Miraculously plot no jutsu the drop of just so happened to land on his body. strangely enough it stayed in the air long enough so that croc was out of the picture by the time it fell from the sky.


> Luffy also earned  his win against Enel as well.


The same way Naruto earned his victory against Neji?
Enel turning off his mantra at the last second made the fight fail.





> Yes there was. Aokiji almost killing Luffy was the fucking foreshadowing.


Thats not foreshadowing at all.



> and hey I wouldn't diss Nami's fights.


 I don't support Sakura. Sasuke samapek is the only ninja I support


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 18, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


>



uh

he does though

Fist of the North Star

ps on the sea train luffy was saying "i've got a new move to try out"

did you complain when luffy used rifle against enel? cause its the same, using his body in different ways. he didn't "master" it right away either, he said that his body was dead tired and he can't keep it up for long anyway


----------



## MdB (Jun 18, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Oh well, all shounen have flaws in their fights. Bleach and OP
> have their own flaws as well. The thing that pisses me off is that
> although Naruto is the main character, his fights are arguably
> the worst in the series. It's sad that I look forward to seeing
> almost everyone else fight more than Naruto.



Ichigo....


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 18, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Deidara uses his c4 geruda. Sasuke uses his sharingan genjutsu to trick deidarra into thinking that he got hit. while deidarra is in a genjutsu, Sasuke hits him with a chidori.  But deidarra had already seen that sasuke used a genjutsu. He make a doton clone and makes his clone pretend that he was in a genjutsu. Sasuke thinking Deidarra was in genjutsu, attacks with a chidori. Deidarra reveals that what sasuke hit was actually a clone and proceeds to attack Sasuke with a C4 at close range.



Genjutsu is nothing more than a cheap cop out used by Kishimoto not actual strategy. "lulz it was all genjutsu. None of it ever happened." That's why the Sasuke vs Itachi fight sucked so much.



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> are you saying thats not stratergy from both fighters?



Not when most of it is DEM induced. I've seen better strategical fights in Konjiki no Gash Bell. Kiyomaro > Shikamaru period.



Sasuke_fanboy said:


>



HERE

That's all the proof I need.

Luffy has more than 20 different attacks. I'd love to see you disprove that.



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Gomo Gomo, Luffy only has one attack. stop generalising. Sasuke has 5 different types of raiton. 3 koton techniques. a lot of shuriken techniques, including using wires and shadow shuriken. He can use a sword and Kunai. He's got most of Rock Lee's taijutsu. He can use all academy level techniques. Sasuke has a greater and more varied move set than Luffy. Even the biggest sasuke haters will admit that.



Going by your opinion all of Sasuke's raiton jutsu are chidori then. They don't count as being different attacks. 

Other than that all Sasuke usually uses is the fireball jutsu that doesn't work. Sharingan, and CS2. Well okay he can summon snakes to shield him but really he can't do that anymore now that Orochimaru's dead so it doesn't matter anymore.



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> See Rukia and Byakuya. Hinamori uses a lot of kidou too. Aizen is another.
> 
> Thats Ichigo's fighting style. don't generalise the rest of SS cuz of his fail



And they use one... what every 20 or 30 chapters? Most of the time it's shikai and bankai along with a lot of sword swinging. Anyone would say that.




Sasuke_fanboy said:


> He won the fight fairly, I'm just saying he should've died the second time they fought. Miraculously plot no jutsu the drop of just so happened to land on his body. strangely enough it stayed in the air long enough so that croc was out of the picture by the time it fell from the sky.
> The same way Naruto earned his victory against Neji?
> Enel turning off his mantra at the last second made the fight fail.



I find it funny tha tyou consider Luffy's wins plot no jutsu and not Sasuke's.




Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Thats not foreshadowing at all.



Yes it is. If Aokiji hadn't appeared and kicked the straw hats asses Luffy would have never made the gears. He specifically even told Blueno that he made them so that he could protect his nakama. Aokiji kicking his ass pretty much told Luffy that he needed to become stronger.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 18, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> SMH @ The One Piece Dick Riding Movement
> 
> Get Over Yourselves It's A pretty Good Manga But It's Not That Good.



So why are the One Piece fans considered the only dick riding movement here?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 18, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> SMH @ The One Piece Dick Riding Movement
> 
> Get Over Yourselves It's A pretty Good Manga But It's Not That Good.



It is THAT good compared to Bleach and especialy Naruto. Not thats its much of an achievement but still..


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 18, 2008)

OP is great in its own right without having to be compared to naruto and bleach


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 18, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> It is a THAT good compared to Bleach and especialy Naruto. Not thats its much of an achievement but still..



Exactly. No one here that I know of is saying that One Piece is the greatest series ever made. So all this "One Piece fans are dick riding their series" bullshit in this thread is ridiculous. Especially when you look at the other camps.


----------



## HugeGuy (Jun 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> So why are the One Piece fans considered the only dick riding movement here?


...because those dick riding Bleach/Naruto here are well established trolls? While the majority of OP dick riding here comes from those who are usually respected for their rationality, logic and intelligence in other sections yet magically(and coherently) lower their IQ(and dignity) whenever it comes to OP? 

Worst still, it's like you guys are trying your best to prolong this tedious flamewar. Granted, you guys might not have started this thread and in fact didn't even drew 1st blood(I know the Narutards did that years ago. Trust me, I was here) but after all this years you guys just haven't learn to *let it go*.

All it takes is one troll like sasuke_fanboy to come in here, utter a single flamebait post and you have waves upon waves of OPtards fully geared and ready for action like your life in on the line. And while you guys are at it, you won't forget to throw some equally offensive insults towards Bleach and Naruto like it's god-given rights for your fanbase to do so. Then sasuke_fanboy will return and utter a couple more rubbish and you have the whole scenario repeating itself which is why this most unproductive thread in the Library is also one of the longest.

I'm not talking only about you Aethos but the others as well. It's sad to see this group of OP fanbase following the path of Narutards you know.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 18, 2008)

The Faint Smile said:


> You know what I think? Fuck all 3...none of them are in my top 10 or even my favorite shounen...give the fucking fan wars a rest.  It gets really old...



Good for you. Now, if you don't mind, talk about those manga in a thread not about Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece. Kapeesh? Seriously, people, this thread is about One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach ONLY. If you don't like all three, fine. But guess what? I you don't like the fanwars, then replying to this thread isn't exactly a good idea. Let it DIE if you don't like it.

Seriously people, read the damn thread title. It's not called shounen compared to seinen, or other shounen compared to One Piece/Naruto/Bleach, it's only about the quality of that trio of manga in relation to other manga in the trio.

Edit: Agreed, Hugeguy (Of course, I'm part of the problem too, but hey, that doesn't take away my right to agree with logic.)


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 18, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> It is THAT good compared to Bleach and especialy Naruto. Not thats its much of an achievement but still..



I see Oda dick in your mouth


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 18, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> I see Oda dick in your mouth



Personal attacks wont help you. If you had somehow cared to take a quick glance at my sig it would show you that i find other series as enjoyable or more than OP.

And you are right Hugeguy, but this topic is a neverending story on this forum i am afraid, its just how it is :S


----------



## HugeGuy (Jun 18, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Edit: Agreed, Hugeguy (Of course, I'm part of the problem too, but hey, that doesn't take away my right to agree with logic.)


Yes it is your right but I believe everyone here has already voiced their opinion over and over and over again. Not only in this thread but also in similar threads before. There's only so many times you can repeat the same thing before it gets redundant(and annoying).

Heck, I got so tired of defending Bleach that I gave up. Now I just want this thread to get out of the first page.



Wuzzman said:


> I see Oda dick in your mouth


NO, NO, NO. That's exactly how you prolong this flamewar.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 18, 2008)

HugeGuy said:


> NO, NO, NO. That's exactly how you prolong this flamewar.



Never mind him, seeing his earlier replies here that sort is to be expected.


----------



## C. Hook (Jun 18, 2008)

I think it's time we stopped posting. Trolls like Wuzzman and Sasuke_Fanboy are never going to quit, and we ourselves have acted like assholes every few pages. Yeah, some people are annoying, but I think it's time a few of us (Including me) stopped acting like screaming infantile monsters every time someone expresses even the slightest dislike of One Piece.

By the way, this is my last post on this thread.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 18, 2008)

few pages...41 few pages

Black Leg Sanji soo deserves that comment he did two things wrong in one post


1. Disrespecting the win that is Sanji , if you have Black Leg Sanji as your name, you better not be a one piece fantard 

I'll think I will stop reading one piece if Sanji becomes the piccolo to Luffy goku....

c.hook I troll the trolls..so what? of course the trolls don't think their trolling but of course *I'm* trolling because I don't lick the semen that comes from Oda dick..


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jun 18, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Good for you. Now, if you don't mind, talk about those manga in a thread not about Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece. Kapeesh? Seriously, people, this thread is about One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach ONLY. If you don't like all three, fine. But guess what? I you don't like the fanwars, then replying to this thread isn't exactly a good idea. Let it DIE if you don't like it.
> 
> Seriously people, read the damn thread title. It's not called shounen compared to seinen, or other shounen compared to One Piece/Naruto/Bleach, it's only about the quality of that trio of manga in relation to other manga in the trio.
> 
> Edit: Agreed, Hugeguy (Of course, I'm part of the problem too, but hey, that doesn't take away my right to agree with logic.)



I was drunk when I wrote that...I don't really mind them.  But what really drives me crazy is when someone likes the other 2 all the OPfans are like  philistines" like their opinion is just plain better.  This whole damn thread was flamebait to begin with and the OPfans just eat it up to feel superior to those foolish Bleach/Naruto fans.  

Oh, and the best part? Floor 2 is for series other than the shounen 3 to begin with so I won't retract my statement no matter if it was a bit belligerent.

Edit-





> Well I guess I would have to loosely quote Endless Mike on this. "why let it go when we know we're right amd they're wrong?"



Aethos proves my point in stunning fashion


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 18, 2008)

HugeGuy said:


> ...because those dick riding Bleach/Naruto here are well established trolls? While the majority of OP dick riding here comes from those who are usually respected for their rationality, logic and intelligence in other sections yet magically(and coherently) lower their IQ(and dignity) whenever it comes to OP?



I doubt that anyone who is doing it actually sees it THAT way but point taken. 



HugeGuy said:


> Worst still, it's like you guys are trying your best to prolong this tedious flamewar. Granted, you guys might not have started this thread and in fact didn't even drew 1st blood(I know the Narutards did that years ago. Trust me, I was here) but after all this years you guys just haven't learn to *let it go*.



Well I guess I would have to loosely quote Endless Mike on this. "why let it go when we know we're right amd they're wrong?" Though I don't think it's something he'd actually say but he did say something like that in regards to the WWH vs Bleach thread in the OBD and well by golly it fits here too. I guess when we come here and prolong threads like these it's because we want those people who think 2+2=5 to understand that 2+2 actually equals 4. It's stupid yes but it's the principal of the thing. We just want those people to acknowledge that they're wrong and we're right...

You know that does sound like a pretty damn stupid reason.



HugeGuy said:


> All it takes is one troll like sasuke_fanboy to come in here, utter a single flamebait post and you have waves upon waves of OPtards fully geared and ready for action like your life in on the line. And while you guys are at it, you won't forget to throw some equally offensive insults towards Bleach and Naruto like it's god-given rights for your fanbase to do so. Then sasuke_fanboy will return and utter a couple more rubbish and you have the whole scenario repeating itself which is why this most unproductive thread in the Library is also one of the longest.



I think the majority of it though comes from the ignorance of these Naruto and Bleach fans. Heck you'd have to agree that any fandom would get up in arms over a person who made ignorant comments about their favorite series while claiming it sucks. Especially when that person is saying that a genuinely bad series is better than an actual genuine good series. I mean seriously are you telling me the Berserk fandom wouldn't be here dickriding their series if this thread was dedicated to comparing Berserk to Naruto and Bleach and you had people like Sasuke fanboy showing up and causing shit due to their ignorance? Yeah, yeah different demographics and genres, etc. but honestly can you see it happening? I can and heck I probably wouldn't even be partaking in that kind of thread mainly cause I'm not a Berserk fan so I'd have no reason to wank it.

Anyways all I'm saying is that it's not because One Piece fans are on some kind of ego trip or anything. You could say it's a matter of pride. Yeah it's just manga series but hey people have fought over much more stupid things in the past.



HugeGuy said:


> 'm not talking only about you Aethos but the others as well. It's sad to see this group of OP fanbase following the path of Narutards you know.



Well it may be my opinion but I don't think the One Piece fanbase is trying to be like the NaruTards or sink that low, but they just see it as the only way to fight back since the NaruTards won't understand anything else. Or there could be another reason why the One Piece fanbase chooses to fight back like that, but as I said it's not because they're trying to be like the NaruTards.

But I do understand your point.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 18, 2008)

ignorance is enjoying a shounen that isn't one piece more then one piece . Obviously one piece can only be compare to top tier manga, one piece fans have a mandate to bash bleach and naruto till one piece suddenly is in the same league as FMA .


----------



## Goodfellow (Jun 18, 2008)

The One Piece wanking is truly strong in this forum. I dare not imagine how it is in a forum dedicated to One Piece

(With that said One Piece got its moment. Took me forever to read through it though)


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 18, 2008)

Tea said:


> The One Piece wanking is truly strong in this forum. I dare not imagine how it is in a forum dedicated to One Piece
> 
> (With that said One Piece got its moment. Took me forever to read through it though)



It's because we have to diligently fight against all odds to prove we're the bestest 



Wuzzman said:


> ignorance is enjoying a shounen that isn't one piece more then one piece . Obviously one piece can only be compare to top tier manga, one piece fans have a mandate to bash bleach and naruto till one piece suddenly is in the same league as FMA .



No ignorance is trying to prove Naruto is a literary masterpiece.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> It's because we have to diligently fight against all odds to prove we're the bestest
> 
> 
> 
> No ignorance is trying to prove Naruto is a literary masterpiece.



No ignorance is trying to prove that the reason someone doesn't think Oda sperm should be cryogentically frozen in order to continue making one piece chapters in defiantly just because one piece is just that good. Is because that that person thinks Naruto and Bleach are the best things since hot sex with Pamela Anderson.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 18, 2008)

> The One Piece wanking is truly strong in this forum. I dare not imagine how it is in a forum dedicated to One Piece



Cricle jerks to Oda's pictures all day long


----------



## Akatora (Jun 19, 2008)

OP was decent to me, what killed the series for me was OP wank and Robin's flashback arc.

Good to defend your favorit stuff, but should have it's limits.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 19, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Exactly. No one here that I know of is saying that One Piece is the greatest series ever made. So all this "One Piece fans are dick riding their series" bullshit in this thread is ridiculous. Especially when you look at the other camps.



The other "camp" is someone named Sasuke Fanboy, and someone who's obviously trolling. Bleach fans drop in and leave one sentence comments then 15 OP fans jump in and act like they just killed someones mother for saying "I think Bleach's characters are cooler then One Piece's"
 And One Piece fans do dickride. The most basic, silliest, predictable shit gets treated like it's some Shakespearean stroke of genius(OH MY GAWD LUFFY PUNCHED A NOBLE! ! !) The shittiest characters get treated like someone brilliant(OH DAMN A GOTHIK LOLITA. PERONA IZ DA BEZT! LOL AFRO!)


----------



## Shuntensatsu (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> So I'm a troll because i'm not wanking to OP, great logic you got there.
> 
> 
> Bullshit. Genjutsu is a ligtimate fighting technique, the way sasuke used it in the Deidarra fight was very strategic.
> ...



I agree with everything in this post.  It is pure genius and I applaud you sir.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 19, 2008)

Akatora said:


> OP was decent to me, what killed the series for me was OP wank and Robin's flashback arc.
> 
> Good to defend your favorit stuff, but should have it's limits.



Oh please. 

Stop trying to use the fans as an excuse for hating the series. Its getting pathetic.



mystictrunks said:


> The other "camp" is someone named Sasuke Fanboy, and someone who's obviously trolling. Bleach fans drop in and leave one sentence comments then 15 OP fans jump in and act like they just killed someones mother for saying "I think Bleach's characters are cooler then One Piece's"
> And One Piece fans do dickride. The most basic, silliest, predictable shit gets treated like it's some Shakespearean stroke of genius(OH MY GAWD LUFFY PUNCHED A NOBLE! ! !) The shittiest characters get treated like someone brilliant(OH DAMN A GOTHIK LOLITA. PERONA IZ DA BEZT! LOL AFRO!)



Compared to Naruto and Bleach? OP is f#cking Steven King. But I see what you're saying.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 19, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Oh please.
> 
> Stop trying to use the fans as an excuse for hating the series. Its getting pathetic.
> 
> ...



Compared to Naruto more so than Bleach considering Narutos below utter fail lately. But hey thats me, i am not the great Sylar by any means


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 19, 2008)

> then they boarded rocket man and headed for Ernies Lobby where he uses the gears with no prior training at all he had already mastered it. Thats what I call bullshit.



I'll agree with that part, it was a little farfetched, especially since we always get to see Zoro training.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm just gonna state what I've been largely observing when it comes to the criticism of Naruto compared to One Piece or Bleach on this forum. 

I notice when someone criticizes Bleach, said person usually know what their talking about, although it doesn't seem that many people care...may be because alot really don't think it hasn't been all that great up until recently and probably agree. When someone criticizes Naruto, the person of course, knows what they are talking about regarding what they feel is wrong with it. 

Depending on the section you're in, people will agree with you, or you'll simply be flamed to hell for it. Although when it comes to OP, I've noticed a high number of people trying to trash the thing then subsequently admit to have never read a single chapter, or only gave up after reading a few, so basically admitting they don't really know the story yet are trying to trash it. 

The most I hear is because of the "art", and not much more, these people I can understand others getting annoyed with. Then there are those who do know the story, state what they feel is wrong with the series, and they are flamed, but at the very least, a coherent argument is put against their criticisms. 

I'm probably being biased, but the difference I noticed when someone is flamed for criticizing OP to Naruto is that for OP criticism, while you may be flamed, alot actually try to put up a legit argument against said criticism. With Naruto on the other hand, you just get flamed...


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 19, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Compared to Naruto and Bleach? OP is f#cking Steven King. But I see what you're saying.


Compared to OP and bleach, Naruto is fucking shakespeare


----------



## Sylar (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Compared to OP and bleach, Naruto is fucking shakespeare



Please Naruto isn't even Nicholas Shakespeare.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 19, 2008)

None of them are Shakespeare.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 19, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Please Naruto isn't even Nicholas Shakespeare.



Hamlet is a mere Sasuke clone


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Compared to OP and bleach, Naruto is fucking shakespeare



Narutoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(infinite<)crapt.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 19, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> Narutoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(infinite<)crapt.



Narutoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(infinite<)crapt < bleach <<<<< one pussy


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Narutoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(infinite<)crapt < bleach <<<<< one pussy



You're right.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 19, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> You're right.



Indeed, how can a kiddy manga like OP be as good as a mature series like naruto 

Naruto has complex villains while OP has a clown as their villain. The art is kiddy, the characters are kiddy, the villains are kiddy.
and noe dies in OP, everyone noes that you need death to be a mature series.

and Sasuke sama is the most complex and deep manga charcter eva. OP has a stupid deer as the most complex individual.

Naruto is just soooooooo much better.

I'm glad someone at least has good taste in this thread


----------



## Basilikos (Jun 19, 2008)

I've started reading OP and so far it has not been my cup of tea. While current Naruto and Bleach have been disappointing in some areas they are still much better than what I have seen from OP thus far.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 19, 2008)

Basilikos said:


> I've started reading OP and so far it has not been my cup of tea. While current Naruto and Bleach have been disappointing in some areas they are still much better than what I have seen from OP thus far.



It starts to pick up for real around chapter 50 imo, so have patience.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:
			
		

> Narutoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(infinite<)crapt < bleach <<<<< one pussy



Priceless post.


----------



## Tash (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Narutoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(infinite<)crapt < bleach <<<<< one pussy



You failed so hard you got it right but still managed to fail in the process. Congrats.

Also basic math symbols, learn them.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 19, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Compared to Naruto and Bleach? OP is f#cking Steven King. But I see what you're saying.



Why would I compare it to those two. I compare it to every other manga/comic/book. It's entertaining, but nothing groundbreaking and I enjoy it for what it is. If people can only say it's great when compared to Y then maybe it isn't all that great. And there's nothing wrong with that.


----------



## MdB (Jun 19, 2008)

Akatora said:


> OP was decent to me, what killed the series for me was OP wank and Robin's flashback arc.
> 
> Good to defend your favorit stuff, but should have it's limits.



And that comes from a guy that tries to defend Bleach on every occasion. Hypocrite.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 19, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Ya know its sad that there are minor characters in OP that are 100x more awesome than any of the main characters for Naruto and Bleach combined.



That is sad, but it's true lol.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Indeed, how can a kiddy manga like OP be as good as a mature series like naruto
> 
> Naruto has complex villains while OP has a clown as their villain. The art is kiddy, the characters are kiddy, the villains are kiddy.
> and noe dies in OP, everyone noes that you need death to be a mature series.
> ...



i kno OP is so childish. they had a guy flick snot as a weapon. that is SOOOO not mature for my mature mind 

and naruto ahs so many great and unpredicatable daeths. OP kills a big ugly ass BOAT. nuff said 

naruto is drawn realistically especially his women. lol at the people so used to big breasted women, kishimoto is GOING AGAINST THE SHOUNEN NORM and making his women look real unlike oda who makes his pretty women all stick figured with big tits. naruto is revolutionary 

and look at th story. lol at op being "go to island, defeat big baddie and save the cictzens" every single time. naruto is so unpredicatable in that regard and you can bring up naruto goin after sasuek but thats fine cuz naruto loves his brotehr and he tryin save his brother thats so much more mature than sh tryin to save robin form a giant giraffe and a bar o shop 

and yeah the villains r ridickulus. the most important vilains in naruto are a lethal creepy pedo snake, a god who lives in a universe of pain and a ninja with magic eyes who was sconred by his friends...taht hsit is oozing with unfathomable maturity...UNLIKE OP WHO'S BIGGEST VILLAINS ARE A FAT GUY WITH MISSING TEETH, A BUNCHA OL DUDES,  A JOHNNY DEPP LOOKALIKE WITH A SWORD, A GUY MADE OF ICE (COME ON I PUT THAT SHIT IN MY KOOLAID!) A GUY WHO WEARS A FEATEHR BOA AND A GUY WHOS GOT WALKS AROUND WITH A GOAT. what a joke. OP belongs on nickolodean naruto belongs on HBO


----------



## Sylar (Jun 19, 2008)

OP is way too childish. I mean look at this:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOrv8nuNLVQ[/YOUTUBE]

How kiddy is THAT?


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 19, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> You're right.



and yet he doesn't even realize it. :rofl



Sylar said:


> Oh please.
> 
> Stop trying to use the fans as an excuse for hating the series. Its getting pathetic.



Isn't that what they've been doing the whole time? I mean most of the people that claim they hate One Piece only hate it becase of the supposed fanwanking. I guess MysticTrunks is right. I mean why are we arguing with people like sasuke fanboy and the rest of them? The one piece haters don't even have any legitament reasons for hating the series.


----------



## JTExecutor (Jun 19, 2008)

Most OP haters I've seen haven't reached past the Kuro saga, much less even gotten into the Grand Line.

That's like giving up Elfin Lied because you thought the series would only be about mindless violence and sex.

That's like giving up Berserk because the first few chapters were about hunting demons.

That's like giving up TTGL because of a certain death.

Just a little rant I gotta get out of the way.


----------



## Akatora (Jun 19, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Oh please.
> 
> Stop trying to use the fans as an excuse for hating the series. Its getting pathetic.




Maybe so, fact is still I stopped OP cause I found the arc to be boring and at the time I had been Rating the series 5/10.
So was decent, and I hoped an arc I could enjoy would emerge later on. Sadly with the amount of wanking that kept focusing upon the parts of OP I did not enjoy as much, keeping on showing me more and more of the stuff I to be honest was gladly not able to remember... Well that killed the interest in returning to the series.


Now you got your explanation, so YES THE FANS DID MAKE AN IMPACT.
However pathetic it might be, Op is to long for it's own good as almost every other series getting to long kills in the end.


----------



## JTExecutor (Jun 19, 2008)

I disagree.  Alabasta was one of the best sagas by OP fans.  Then came Enies Lobby which people like even more than Alabasta.  Now there's the Archipelago saga, which seems like it'll beat out even Enies Lobby.

This show should be long.  It cannot be told in a few episodes by any means.


----------



## MdB (Jun 19, 2008)

Akatora said:


> Maybe so, fact is still I stopped OP cause I found the arc to be boring and at the time I had been Rating the series 5/10.
> So was decent, and I hoped an arc I could enjoy would emerge later on. Sadly with the amount of wanking that kept focusing upon the parts of OP I did not enjoy as much, keeping on showing me more and more of the stuff I to be honest was gladly not able to remember... Well that killed the interest in returning to the series.
> 
> 
> ...



candle light by kimmykim08


----------



## Akatora (Jun 19, 2008)

Perhaps so, but I'll leave that to you, Every series should be judged by the individual not the majority.

I'd just much rather read other new mangas then continue reading OP, for the simple reason I do not find it to be exceptional.

Series should be followed and enjoyed by it's fans, longer series require more die hard fans... It would seem OP never got me into the category.


----------



## Akatora (Jun 19, 2008)

MdB said:


> candle light by kimmykim08



Deserves Rep


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Narutoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(infinite<)crapt < bleach <<<<< one pussy



ok that was funny

anyway sylar...are you using stephen king because you think he's the most amazing author? just saying from my perspective that wasn't all that much of an insult...


----------



## JTExecutor (Jun 19, 2008)

I say stick with Shakespeare.  People'll know what you mean even if they don't agree.  Stephen King on the other hand...


----------



## Akatora (Jun 19, 2008)

I'd like to see a thread comparing stephen king with OP though.

I somehow get a picture into my mind of Straw eating rats in sewers.
stephen king= Blood,Blood, Splat and more Blood
Good storytelling well... that's for the reader to decide


----------



## JTExecutor (Jun 19, 2008)

Only in Zoro's case.


----------



## DocTerror (Jun 19, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> and Sasuke sama is the most complex and deep manga charcter eva. OP has a stupid deer as the most complex individual.



Sasuke is nothing orginal. He is a complete rip off off Killua and Kurapika from HxH.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 19, 2008)

Sylar said:


> OP is way too childish. I mean look at this:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOrv8nuNLVQ[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> How kiddy is THAT?



aww now I remember why one piece shouldn't have never been animated.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 19, 2008)

DocTerror said:


> Sasuke is nothing orginal. He is a complete rip off off Killua and Kurapika from HxH.



please point out where either of those 2 turned on everything they believed in an grew up with, then don't compare them with fail


----------



## armorknight (Jun 19, 2008)

DocTerror said:


> Sasuke is nothing orginal. He is a complete rip off off Killua and Kurapika from HxH.



That's not surprising considering that Naruto borrows quite a bit from HxH.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 19, 2008)

> please point out where either of those 2 turned on everything they believed in an grew up with, then don't compare them with fail



Well he never said they were fail like Sasuke, Togashi knows how to do characters, Kishi is his little bitch.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 19, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Well he never said they were fail like Sasuke, Togashi knows how to do characters, Kishi is his little bitch.



Yes, Togashi is a very competent mangaka and knows how to write.  Too bad he doesn't know how to do so on a regular basis.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 19, 2008)

> Too bad he doesn't know how to do so on a regular basis.



If only Kishi did that, Naruto might just be a coherent manga then.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 19, 2008)

The Faint Smile said:


> ok that was funny
> 
> anyway sylar...are you using stephen king because you think he's the most amazing author? just saying from my perspective that wasn't all that much of an insult...



In terms of darkness ie not childishness.



Wuzzman said:


> aww now I remember why one piece shouldn't have never been animated.



Har Har you are so funny man.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 20, 2008)

he actually has a point there in some respects the OP anime is god awful


----------



## Fang (Jun 20, 2008)

Why the fuck are you guys responding to Wuzzman?


----------



## Sylar (Jun 20, 2008)

Taleran said:


> he actually has a point there in some respects the OP anime is god awful



How is it awful?



Mirai Gohan said:


> Why the fuck are you guys responding to Wuzzman?



Stupidity offends me. I can't help myself.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 20, 2008)

only one piece fanboys are allowed to post in this thread...wow.....


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 20, 2008)

DocTerror said:


> Sasuke is nothing orginal. He is a complete rip off off Killua and Kurapika from HxH.


Please don't compare Sasuke sama to that kind of fail. Hisoka is the only character in HxH that comes close to Sasuke's win.


----------



## Shuntensatsu (Jun 20, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> Please don't compare Sasuke sama to that kind of fail. Hisoka is the only character in HxH that comes close to Sasuke's win.



Snapple real fact #19048

Leorio's left testicle > Sasuke.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 20, 2008)

Killua is who Sasuke wishes he was, and lets not even bring Hisoka in to this.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 20, 2008)

> Snapple real fact #19048
> 
> Leorio's left testicle > Sasuke.


Sakura's pussy > HxH 



> Killua is who Sasuke wishes he was, and lets not even bring Hisoka in to this.


Killua wears Sasuke pyjamas


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 20, 2008)

i hate one piece dick riding too much to respond to Sasuke....


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 20, 2008)

> Sakura's pussy > HxH



Sakura has a penis. And lets not bring HxH in to this because we all know where Kishi gets half his ideas from.


----------



## UchihaJonin (Jun 20, 2008)

fuck one piece and its shityass drawn characters


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 20, 2008)

Technically thats Pierrot rather than Kishi, but he still fails.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 20, 2008)

UchihaJonin said:


> fuck one piece and its shityass drawn characters


ya man, and their villain is a fucking clown, how can u get anymore kiddy. At least Naruto's villain is a peadophile. thats much more mature. 

and the charcters in naruto are so realistic, its like watching a pixar movie.


----------



## KLoWn (Jun 20, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> and their villain is a fucking clown, how can u get anymore kiddy.


Fuck you


----------



## Basilikos (Jun 20, 2008)

So the Narutards and OPtards are still going at it, eh?


----------



## Aldric (Jun 20, 2008)

Buggy's left testicle > the entire Uchiha clan


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 20, 2008)

It actually helped kill the Uchiha clan 

Anywho havent seen what the new OP is about, but the Bleach chapter was good and the Naruto chapter didnt want to make me laugh.

Id say shounen wise this week was successful.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 20, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Buggy's left testicle > the entire Uchiha clan



You're overestimating the Uchiha.  A single pube on Buggy's ball sack >>>>> Uchiha.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 20, 2008)

Buggy's crab lice are actually the Uchiha

That's the real secret behind the massacre

Buggy just used a special shampoo to get rid of them all


----------



## Jinibea (Jun 20, 2008)

Naruto got old because Naruto is weak as crap.Kishimoto likes saskue better then Naruto.Naruto characters are weak compared to One piece characters.

Bleach-Don't know and I will never give a shit.

One piece-Oda planns everything.All the characters have great personalitys.Luffy is prbly one of the strongest characters in shounen jump.oda makes all the arcs so God damn awsome.The fighters are awsome.

And the Gap between the power between the mangas

One piece power>>>>>>>>>Bleach,Naruto.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 20, 2008)

Buggy > 99% Naruto and Bleach Characters(Jiraiya and Don Kanoji stand up)


----------



## armorknight (Jun 20, 2008)

Jinibea the Fishman pirate warlord said:


> Naruto got old because Naruto is weak as crap.Kishimoto likes saskue better then Naruto.Naruto characters are weak compared to One piece characters.
> 
> Bleach-Don't know and I will never give a shit.
> 
> ...



Wow never thought I'd see an OP troll (unless this is a joke). Although, your comments about Naruto are mostly valid. Kishi has pretty much favored Sasuke since the beginning, and Naruto is a failure. However, there are a few characters in Naruto that stand a chance against gear 2nd Luffy (Jiraiya and Pein come to mind).

Mind you, it would still be a hard battle for either of them. Luffy has
high attack speed, low vunerability, power, agility, and monsterous
endurance. Not to mention, these are all magnified in gear 2nd. Jiraiya
/Pein would have to find a way end the battle fast, or Luffy's 
endurance will assure his victory in an attrition battle.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 20, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> And lets not bring HxH in to this because we all know where Kishi gets half his ideas from.



Idd..


----------



## Dance (Jun 20, 2008)

Sylar said:


> How is it awful?



The art, animation and directing are awful alot of the time. 

Take any random episode out of Thriller Bark and you'll see what I'm talking about.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 20, 2008)

Dance said:


> The art, animation and directing are awful alot of the time.
> 
> Take any random episode out of Thriller Bark and you'll see what I'm talking about.



I just watched the latest eps and I don't see what you're talking about at all. The scene where Oz owned the generals was awesome.


----------



## Tash (Jun 20, 2008)

The anime animation goes from incredible to horrible at times. I absolutely hated the animation on some parts of the Kaku fight, but I loved how fluid it was in the middle of the Lucci battle, and when Zoro owned T-bone.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 20, 2008)

The worst anime adaption is Shippuden without a doubt. It's actually managed to
magnify the suckiness of part II. Seriously, each episode wastes so much time that it's not even funny.


----------



## Tash (Jun 20, 2008)

Coming into Shippuden I actually anticipated the KN4 vs Oro fight, they pretty much ruined that for me.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 20, 2008)

OP anime has some spectacularly horrible animation at times.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 20, 2008)

Dance said:


> The art, animation and directing are awful alot of the time.
> 
> Take any random episode out of Thriller Bark and you'll see what I'm talking about.



You know the team animating thriller bark is the one that animated movie 6 right? I mean seriously compare that to any episode in Water 7/Eines Lobby and then say that the animation and art sucks.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 20, 2008)

~Shin~ said:


> OP anime has some spectacularly horrible animation at times.



Every long running animated series does.  They've also done some really nice jobs as well.  I really liked how Wiper vs Luffy was animated.

Why are there 2 Zoro's in that pic?


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jun 20, 2008)

Maybe it's because I hate clowns(no offense Klown) but Buggy sucks balls.  There are plenty of great OP chars but he is not among them imo.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 20, 2008)

LOL at using filler to justify OP having bad animation.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 20, 2008)

Sylar said:


> LOL at using filler to justify OP having bad animation.



Indeed 

Well seriously now, how does anyone expect a long running adapation of OP not having bad animations sometimes. It would be to damn expensive(?) keeping it consistantly excellent.

Toei does a much better job on fillers and animation than Pierrot ever could. I mean, just look at the horrible animation Shippuiden has and sometimes Bleach. Though with Bleach they do atleast have good pacing and decent fillers most of the time imo.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 20, 2008)

Anime wise Bleach is probably the best, minus the shit filler that is. 

Anyway after reading this weeks SJ, OP was epic, Naruto was stupid and Bleach was rushed, my two cents


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 20, 2008)

bleach was defintly rushed this week. Kubo blew his chance to win fans back. Meh, I feel some dbz powerups coming.....


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jun 20, 2008)

Why are people bringing up _anime_ adaptions in the _manga_ section?


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 20, 2008)

Jetstorm said:


> Why are people bringing up _anime_ adaptions in the _manga_ section?



I guess the anime only people are leaking into the manga section for some reason.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Jun 20, 2008)

p-lou said:


> Every long running animated series does.  They've also done some really nice jobs as well.  I really liked how Wiper vs Luffy was animated.



I'm not saying they've never done a good job. My point was that it's highly inconsistent. Like Swajio said, it ranges from really good to utter shit.



> Why are there 2 Zoro's in that pic?



That's the horrible animation part. The animators were so lazy that they didn't even bother to edit the frames before releasing it.


----------



## Dance (Jun 21, 2008)

Aethos said:


> You know the team animating thriller bark is the one that animated movie 6 right? I mean seriously compare that to any episode in Water 7/Eines Lobby and then say that the animation and art sucks.



What? No.

The movie six team was involved in one episode of thriller bark so far.
They're not animating the entire ark by any means.

The most recent episodes(excluding the one animated by the movie 7 team. I think it was 357.) have been pretty awful overall. 

Watch the Moria vs. Luffy scene from episode 358.

That is a example of how bad the animation/directing can be at times. It's just as bad as some parts of Enise Lobby, if not worse.

I can't help but wonder how the anime keeps fucking up Moria so horribly. He looks nothing like he does in the manga.

Also, all the recent TB episodes have been based around one chapter of the manga. This leads to horrible pacing and horrible stretching of scenes.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 21, 2008)

Dance said:


> What? No.
> 
> The movie six team was involved in one episode of thriller bark so far.
> They're not animating the entire ark by any means.
> ...



and when One Piece starts recycling frames like Naruto shippuden commonly does such as in the Gai vs Gai fight then you have reason to complain.

One Piece's animation may not be perfect at times but it's far better than Naruto's these days that's for sure. I'd say Bleach has the best overall but that's not surprising since the anime makes the series look better than the manga has ever done.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 21, 2008)

Aethos said:


> One Piece's animation may not be perfect at times but it's far better than Naruto's these days that's for sure. I'd say Bleach has the best overall but that's not surprising since the anime makes the series look better than the manga has ever done.



I agree, though Bleach does has the advantage of being the newest of the three, so its early episodes seem more impressive than OP/Naruto's early episodes. Though I still think Naruto's and OP's best anime fights blow the water out of Bleach's best fights (and that's saying a lot, since I generally love swordfights).

I wouldn't totally rule out all of Shippuden's animation. Yeah, OP/Bleach are better, but Shippuden often delivers (episode 26 fight was just EPIC, and I really like how 4TK Naruto looked, though that entire arc was just dragged out too long).

Edit: Not quite sure why we're not talking about the MANGA though.....


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 21, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> I agree, though Bleach does has the advantage of being the newest of the three, so its early episodes seem more impressive than OP/Naruto's early episodes. Though I still think Naruto's and OP's best anime fights blow the water out of Bleach's best fights (and that's saying a lot, since I generally love swordfights).
> 
> I wouldn't totally rule out all of Shippuden's animation. Yeah, OP/Bleach are better, but Shippuden often delivers (episode 26 fight was just EPIC, and I really like how 4TK Naruto looked, though that entire arc was just dragged out too long).
> 
> Edit: Not quite sure why we're not talking about the MANGA though.....



Again it's because most of the people that come into this thread are probably anime only people.

And the Bleach anime made one of the worst fights of the series (Ichigo vs Grimmjaw) look good. I mean heck that's a miracle in and of itself.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 21, 2008)

Aethos said:


> And the Bleach anime made one of the worst fights of the series (Ichigo vs Grimmjaw) look good. I mean heck that's a miracle in and of itself.



True, but I think that's somewhat easy as I don't personally think Kubo has quite the knack for fights as Oda and Kishi do. He definitely has his own strengths, but some of his weaknesses are unfortunately the things I'm more nitpicky about (the fighting, use of backgrounds, etc.). That's why I mainly stick with the anime of that series.

Of course, manga fights will rarely get me to the point of "WOW!", just because animation and live-action has so many advantages over it. I think FMA's manga is one of the rare exceptions to the rule, as some of the fights have had me rocking with tension (Lust vs. Mustang/Havoc, for example).


----------



## yami (Jun 22, 2008)

Dance said:


> The art, animation and directing are awful alot of the time.
> 
> Take any random episode out of Thriller Bark and you'll see what I'm talking about.



Yeah go ahead and pick the worst arc of all. How about you pick any FRAME from that one year of filler? At least in One Piece its not noticeable since the story and the characters are good, unlike Naruto. Bleach in my opinion is the best overall anime, however OP Water 7+Ennies Lobby arc simply kill it. Go watch Blueno vs Luffy fight, and eat your heart out. 

Plus not to mention One Piece is KILLING Naruto and Bleach(although not as much) for the past month or so, One Piece is at one of it's highest points.(manga wise) Naruto, I dont even want to say anything, its that bad, it is beyond making a come back now. Bleach is actually really good right now, however when compared to OP last 4 chapters, it doesnt stand up. 

The point is, people need to stop bitching about the art, nobody gives a fuck. If you let something so trivial as that stop you from enjoying one of the best series going on right now, then it is your loss. The rest of us, we are going to enjoy one of the most epic arc ever, while you can go back to seeing Naruto cry like a pussy and then proceed to suck Sasuke's balls.


----------



## Xell (Jun 22, 2008)

Dance said:


> The art, animation and directing are awful alot of the time.
> 
> Take any random episode out of Thriller Bark and you'll see what I'm talking about.



One Piece has it's flaws, but if we're talking about bad animation, then you should be talking about Naruto and Bleach.



That's just one example of piss poor animation which pretty much seems to be Bleach in its entirety. 

Naruto's almost as bad.

Of course, they do have their moments. Norio Matsumoto for example.

All long running series have bad animation, but Naruto and Bleach just have more than One Piece. Toei >>> Studio Pierrot >>>>>> Artland (Katekyou Hitman Reborn! LOL animation).


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 23, 2008)

yami said:


> Yeah go ahead and pick the worst arc of all. How about you pick any FRAME from that one year of filler? At least in One Piece its not noticeable since the story and the characters are good, unlike Naruto. Bleach in my opinion is the best overall anime, however OP Water 7+Ennies Lobby arc simply kill it. Go watch Blueno vs Luffy fight, and eat your heart out.
> 
> Plus not to mention One Piece is KILLING Naruto and Bleach(although not as much) for the past month or so, One Piece is at one of it's highest points.(manga wise) Naruto, I dont even want to say anything, its that bad, it is beyond making a come back now. Bleach is actually really good right now, however when compared to OP last 4 chapters, it doesnt stand up.
> 
> The point is, people need to stop bitching about the art, nobody gives a fuck. If you let something so trivial as that stop you from enjoying one of the best series going on right now, then it is your loss. The rest of us, we are going to enjoy one of the most epic arc ever, while you can go back to seeing Naruto cry like a pussy and then proceed to suck Sasuke's balls.



I agree good sir and you deserve a rep


----------



## Matariki (Jun 23, 2008)

UchihaJonin said:


> fuck one piece and its shityass drawn characters



So true.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 23, 2008)

Xell said:


> One Piece has it's flaws, but if we're talking about bad animation, then you should be talking about Naruto and Bleach.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Filler.

Though yes Pierrot needs to get a clue.

I agree with Aethos that the adapation minus fillers mostly is better than the manga. Perhaps better than OPs considering that and ONLY that where the anime is certainly not anywhere near the manga. Its still very good though.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 23, 2008)

In terms of anime canon Bleach can't be beaten, sorry but OP even isn't as good.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 23, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> In terms of anime canon Bleach can't be beaten, sorry but OP even isn't as good.



Well Bleach canon has sometimes really crappy animation, its not as easy to spot that in OP for me with EL as an exception 

OP fillers is better than Bleach aswell most of the time.


----------



## Spencer_Gator (Jun 23, 2008)

I never got into OP


----------



## Fang (Jun 23, 2008)

Does anyone else remember the exceptionally shitty animation after Grimmjow's posse showed up in the anime? Or the amazing filler like having Fraccions and Numeros pretend to beat a high tier Espada?

Or the budge animation style of Renji?


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

I've never seen an anime go to such radical extremes in animation as Bleach. First you have this poorly drawn, and horribly choppy Szayel fight, then you have the final grimmjow fight which was beautifully drawn and fluidly animated.


----------



## Codde (Jun 23, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Does anyone else remember the exceptionally shitty animation after Grimmjow's posse showed up in the anime? Or the amazing filler like having Fraccions and Numeros pretend to beat a high tier Espada?
> 
> Or the budge animation style of Renji?


The episodes where Grimmjow arrives in Karakura for the first time had moderately average to good animation with some episodes such as the Ikkaku fight and the 1st Ichigo vs. Grimmjow fight having amazing animation.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 23, 2008)

[
I made my point already. The characters in OP are too childish for my taste.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I made my point already. The characters in OP are too childish for my taste.



Oh, alrig


----------



## Sylar (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I made my point already. The characters in OP are too childish for my taste.



How very childish indeed....

*exploding daisy slash*
*exploding daisy slash*
*exploding daisy slash*
Link removed


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

> I made my point already.



That's not even a point

That's... A turd

A squishy, chunky turd


----------



## Matariki (Jun 23, 2008)

Sylar said:


> How very childish indeed....
> 
> Link removed
> Link removed
> ...



Whatever. I don't like it. Sue me.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

It's ok Seiko

I actually think most OP fans would feel insulted if someone(thing) with such shitty taste as you (fan of Sasuke and Hitsugaya ) liked One Piece


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Whatever. I don't like it. Sue me.


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

OP's art is disgusting. The story is dreadful.

I can't compare it to Bleach because I rarely read it. 

However, Naruto shits all over it. In every way.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> OP's art is disgusting. The story is dreadful.
> 
> I can't compare it to Bleach because *I rarely read it. *
> 
> However, Naruto shits all over it. In every way.



B-9, I sunk your destroyer.


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

Yes. I rarely read Bleach. 

Though the small ammount i have read surpasses anything from OP.


----------



## Xell (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> OP's art is disgusting. The story is dreadful.
> 
> I can't compare it to Bleach because I rarely read it.
> 
> However, Naruto shits all over it. In every way.



I don't think you've even read One Piece. Enjoy your 'ninjas'.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 23, 2008)

Aldric said:


> It's ok Seiko
> 
> I actually think most OP fans would feel insulted if someone(thing) with such shitty taste as you (fan of Sasuke and Hitsugaya ) liked One Piece



They are awesome.

It's no accident both were #1 in their respective character polls.


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

Sure I've read OP, though I really, really wish I didn't.


----------



## Xell (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> They are awesome.
> 
> It's no accident both were #1 in their respective character polls.



What's so awesome about them? Seem like angsty little ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) if you ask me.

Hitsugaya can't even win battles. 



Sasuke said:


> Sure I've read OP, though I really, really wish I didn't.



How much did you read?


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> They are awesome.
> 
> It's no accident both were #1 in their respective character polls.



Congratulations you have the same taste than the pudgy female otakus who vote in these polls

Wear it proudly Seiko


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> They are awesome.
> 
> It's no accident both were #1 in their respective character polls.



It's no accident High School Musicals soundtrack outsold the Beatles in sales records either.

People have no taste whatsoever.


----------



## Lazlow (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> OP's art is disgusting. The story is dreadful.
> 
> I can't compare it to Bleach because I rarely read it.
> 
> However, Naruto shits all over it. In every way.



  


Wow. Just wow.


----------



## Broleta (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> They are awesome.
> 
> It's no accident both were #1 in their respective character polls.



CAUSE POPULARITY = QUALITY RIGHT?


----------



## Matariki (Jun 23, 2008)

Xell said:


> What's so awesome about them? Seem like angsty little ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) if you ask me.
> 
> Hitsugaya can't even win battles.



He's one of the strongest Captains.


----------



## Xell (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> He's one of the strongest Captains.



*!!!!?***


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

Come to think of it Sasuke can't win battles either

His opponents either die of colon cancer or commit suicide, probably out of shame to have to job against such a garystuesque dingleberry


----------



## Broleta (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> He's one of the strongest Captains.



So by your way of thinking; the higher rank/more strength/better fighter a character has/is the better character they are?


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> He's one of the strongest Captains.



He's also a really horrible character.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> He's one of the strongest Captains.



dot dot dot


----------



## Xell (Jun 23, 2008)

It's ironic how Sasuke is calling One Piece art 'disgusting' when the art in Naruto is so ugly looking and bland..

I wouldn't be surprised if Kishimoto pissed the lines he draws.


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

Naruto's art is seinen level at times.

Quite often, OP's art looks like the doodles pre schoolers make.


----------



## Broleta (Jun 23, 2008)

Xell said:


> It's ironic how Sasuke is calling One Piece art 'disgusting' when the art in Naruto is so ugly looking and bland..
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if Kishimoto pissed the lines he draws.



Yeah but I'd like to see someone post some of those brilliant colour spreads that Kishimoto does.. oh wait


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Naruto's art is seinen level.
> 
> OP's art looks like the doodles pre schoolers make at times.



Show us an example of One Piece art looking like a doodle.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 23, 2008)

I heard nobody died in OP, ever. How dull.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I heard nobody died in OP, ever. How dull.



You heard wrong

Also Chouji and Neji


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> He's one of the strongest Captains.



This deserves far more laughter and ridicule than it has gotten.


----------



## Broleta (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Naruto's art is seinen level at times.
> 
> Quite often, OP's art looks like the doodles pre schoolers make.



The art or the character designs? I think you're misinformed. I've never heard of a pre schooler who can draw amazing landscapes like Oda or have an imagination to develop unique characters like Oda does. Quite frankly Naruto art is the same old shit almost every time, especially the characters.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I heard nobody died in OP, ever. How dull.



I heard only bad guys die in Bleach.
How lopsidedly unfair.


----------



## Broleta (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I heard nobody died in OP, ever. How dull.



So you haven't read One Piece then?


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm really tempted to post pics from Naruto chap 306 and then extracts from the latest Berserk chapters with giant Ganishka

But it's a lot of work just to ridicule some ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)'s garbage trolling


----------



## Xell (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Naruto's art is seinen level *at times*.
> 
> Quite often, OP's art looks like the doodles pre schoolers make.



But most of the time it's just a bland piece of shit. Let's also take note how Naruto and Bleach chapters seem to have barely any dialogue and mainly has frames with characters just staring. How's that good?

I can only assume you have a short attention span and can only 'read' stuff which doesn't actually require much reading.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Naruto art was never on Seinen level, ever.


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

Aldric said:


> I'm really tempted to post pics from Naruto chap 306 and then extracts from the latest Berserk chapters with giant Ganishka
> 
> But it's a lot of work just to ridicule some ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)'s garbage trolling



No, no. Thats far too good of a plan to let go to waste no matter how shitty the trolling.



vs



...
Is a witty retort really needed here? I'll just let the pictures speak for themselves.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

Go start a thread in the OBD I need a good laugh

Plus you're off topic


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

Miura is amazing. Kishimoto is only on his level at certain times, like I said.

Indeed Seiko. Ganishka would get stomped.


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Miura is amazing. Kishimoto is only on his level at certain times, like I said.


Go ahead then, post a scan of this amazing art.



> Indeed Seiko. Ganishka would get stomped.



Just lol.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Miura is amazing. Kishimoto is only on his level at certain times, like I said.



Kishimoto is never on his level. Ever.

Find one Naruto panel, yes, a panel. On this level.


Also here's One Piece Vs. Naruto in art.





Gee.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Kishimoto is never on his level. Ever.
> 
> Find one Naruto panel, yes, a panel. On this level.
> 
> ...



Quotin dis'


----------



## Stan Lee (Jun 23, 2008)

OP vs Naruto reborn.......

EDIT:More periods.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Aldric said:


> You don't actually expect them to come back with something remotely resembling a counter



Of course not.
Which means they're done.
No matter what they say I can quote that at them. And we'll get stammering and crying.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 23, 2008)

Obvious trolling is obvious.

It's too bad the fans trashing OP are SASUKE fans of all people.


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

Magnificent, Kishimoto.


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

You consider that "sienen level?" 
*Spoiler*: __ 



*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*
I could continue, but you know, character limit and all.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 23, 2008)

Flawless victory. 

It would take Oda ten years to draw something like that.


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

Apparently it only takes him a week if that's the best you could come up with.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 23, 2008)

I'll never understand why Shonen Jump tolerates Oda's disgusting art.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 23, 2008)

Naruto is disgusting art with the bishi gay boys like sasugay. he can only make the same type of characters with different hairstyles. 

Kishimoto fails hard in character design and story development, atleast kubo tite has some decent character design.

one piece owns them in all terms though.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:
			
		

> Magnificent, Kishimoto.





Seiko said:


> Flawless victory.
> 
> It would take Oda ten years to draw something like that.



this

this

this

this

Also you still need to show a Naruto image on Seinen level.


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

I think he actually thought that picture of the akatsuki statue was seinen level.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 23, 2008)

isn't it irrelevent since most Seinen's art is consistent throughout them


like those 2 naruto pics are great, but every single page of AKIRA is more detailed


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

Swajio said:
			
		

> I think he actually thought that picture of the akatsuki statue was seinen level.



Sasuke liked the pic because of the *sucking* sound effect


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

Oda's character designs are atrocious, look at them they look like throwaway cartoon characters a blind person put together. 

Kishimoto's designs are beautiful.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

this

this

this

this

this

this


This was never a fair fight.


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Oda's character designs are atrocious, look at them they look like throwaway cartoon characters a blind person put together.
> 
> Kishimoto's designs are beautiful.



Of course, who doesn't love the new bishounen of the week, detailed with all the shading and depth of a coloring book. In his entire time making Naruto I can think of only three character designs that interested me.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Oda's character designs are atrocious, look at them they look like throwaway cartoon characters a blind person put together.
> 
> Kishimoto's designs are beautiful.



Beautiful like how Sasuke, Itachi, Sasuke's mom, and Karin are all essentially the same?

The only great character design's in Naruto were people like Ibiki and Dosu. And even those people were mostly heavily influenced by Akira's second half rather than Kishi being original.

Kishi hasn't made a good design since....hell forever.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

Kishimoto's character design process:

1-Take Naruto's face
2-Change haircut and eyes
3-???
4-Profit


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Someone post that Hidan/Asuma photoshop.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> CS2 Sasuke looked great.



No it was pretty awful.


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

lol mutated drag queen.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

So Sasuke, do you have anymore "good" Naruto scans? Or just two.
Because I'm not even started yet with One Piece.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> CS2 Sasuke looked great.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Why yes, I do think this character looks better with long hair, lipstick, dark skin, and eye-shadow.

Now are you going to watch _Jungle Fever: Trannilicious Babes XXX_ with me or not?


----------



## Tash (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> They are awesome.
> 
> It's no accident both were #1 in their respective character polls.



I agree, polls don't lie. Oh, look at Aldrics post.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Magnificent, Kishimoto.



Too bad this beats both of those

*exploding daisy slash*


----------



## Xell (Jun 23, 2008)




----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko and Sasuke ran away.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 23, 2008)

Art of Run at its finest.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 23, 2008)

Lol at Seiko defending Hitsugaya

People have you forgotten the epic double pages Oda did for Skypiea? They were amazing, I wish I could find them now


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

I have still yet to see anything that trumps the examples I posted.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 23, 2008)

Did you post the one with the First fighting Madara? Probably the best panel Kishi has done in ages.


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 23, 2008)

No, but you're right. That was great. 

Another example of how amazing Kishi can be.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 23, 2008)

You know, if we're comparing backgrounds, you'd think we could all just enjoy the fact that Naruto and One Piece both pwn Bleach in that category, but apparently not..... 

Also, Aethos, I'm not really impressed by yours. Sure, it's detailed, but it feels almost dead. Xell's and Sasuke's first ones are more effective, IMHO, in drawing me into the story.

Let's take a look at one of my favorites from Oda's earlier days:

Link removed

Now this is impressive. Sure, the castle isn't detailed as the one you showed, but it accomplishes its purpose better. The angle is very nice, the castle is seen from a child's point of view, the snow, Luffy's pose, and Vivi and Sanji's actions give it a lifelike feel that draws you in. You can be as detailed as you want, but if you don't make me feel like I'm there, all the effort didn't really accomplish much. Now, Xell's picture and Sasuke's first picture aren't quite as lifelike, but it adds touches like the birds or soap bubbles that help add the illusion of movement.

Here's a Naruto example:

Link removed

The flames, and light shining on Itachi's right shoulder prevent a great page from turning into a lifeless shot. Motion is important, I'm not saying every single panel requires it, but for the ones that are truly meant to impress, it's definitely important.

Your picture could have been better. Some birds flying overhead, a passing ship, more motion from the water, any of these could have helped bring the picture to life.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Lol at Seiko defending Hitsugaya
> 
> People have you forgotten the epic double pages Oda did for Skypiea? They were amazing, I wish I could find them now



Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

There.is.no.contest.folks.


----------



## Timur Lane (Jun 23, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> I have still yet to see anything that trumps the examples I posted.



I love how your argument only consists of statements and praise. You really don't try to defend your shitty points, only ignore them.

But I guess that's how it's like having a cock stuck in your mouth 24/7.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Link removed



This is actually seinen level.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> You know, if we're comparing backgrounds, you'd think we could all just enjoy the fact that Naruto and One Piece both pwn Bleach in that category, but apparently not.....
> 
> Also, Aethos, I'm not really impressed by yours. Sure, it's detailed, but it feels almost dead. Xell's and Sasuke's first ones are more effective, IMHO, in drawing me into the story.
> 
> ...



Your confusing intent.
A landscape shot that isn't motion heavy is usually INTENDED for you to simply stop and smell the flowers. To observe and take in the setting before we see it going about it's day.

Aetho's shot was just a dialouge shot. Meant to focus on what the people were saying, the art was if anything transitory. Showing us simply "Here are the strawhats while they are talking".
That panel came after Oda already gave us sense of space for Water7.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 23, 2008)

total proof of Naruto's detailedness

Link removed


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 23, 2008)

Zephos said:


> That panel came after Oda already gave us sense of space for Water7.



Ah, see, I wasn't aware of that. I retract my earlier comment, although for my own personal likes, I prefer the ones that have movement, like I said.

Also, yeah, that 290 one is just freakin' awesome.

I'm just wondering when a desperate Bleach fan is going to post a background and say it pwns all the OP/Naruto ones shown.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Aethos, you suck at picking examples of things.

Anyway heres some Davy back fight goodness.

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 23, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Your confusing intent.
> A landscape shot that isn't motion heavy is usually INTENDED for you to simply stop and smell the flowers. To observe and take in the setting before we see it going about it's day.
> 
> Aetho's shot was just a dialouge shot. Meant to focus on what the people were saying, the art was if anything transitory. Showing us simply "Here are the strawhats while they are talking".
> That panel came after Oda already gave us sense of space for Water7.



Well I was basically going on detail rather than space. I mean using any two page spread would be easy but my intention was that even the single pages were far more detailed than anything from Naruto.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> Ah, see, I wasn't aware of that. I retract my earlier comment, although for my own personal likes, I prefer the ones that have movement, like I said.



Heres a treat than.

Link removed


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 23, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Aethos, you suck at picking examples of things.



Fien then. I'll do it your way. Two page spreads only.

one for Naruto

Link removed

and One Piece

Link removed

and well I'm sorry Zephos that I can't be more like you and be good at debating anime/manga on the internet. I guess that just makes me completely braindead and stupid compared to your genius.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 23, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Heres a treat than.
> 
> Link removed



Hell yeah, now that's what I'm *beep*ing talking about!


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 23, 2008)

"It's been said that the guy who made this organization was our ancestor"


----------



## Xell (Jun 23, 2008)

Damn Oda's good.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 23, 2008)

I remember some awesome, "the tide is coming" panels from Water 7, post those

Now this is epic

Link removed


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Goddamnit Aethos.

Here's some more.

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----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 23, 2008)

In Naruto's defence, this was a really cool panel.

Though thats pretty much the best its got.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 23, 2008)

wasn't half of that just a reuse from chapter 1 though?


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 23, 2008)

Bleach has some great panels too:

this

this

this

this

this

this

Link removed


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 23, 2008)

Alright Zephos you're right.

I'll drop out of this thread. Obviously I'm not worthy of being in the same debate threads as you, and I'm not really helping any either. I wish I could have your intelligent wit. Maybe then I could be competent at least.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Link removed

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floor

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And this is just a representation about what these posts have done to your argument Sasuke/Seiko.

Link removed


----------



## Zephos (Jun 23, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Alright Zephos you're right.
> 
> I'll drop out of this thread. Obviously I'm not worthy of being in the same debate threads as you, and I'm not really helping any either. I wish I could have your intelligent wit. Maybe then I could be competent at least.



Well at least your honest.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 23, 2008)

Why are you guys arguing? And Aethos please change that ava

Random decent Naruto panels:

floor

Link removed

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----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 23, 2008)

and Zephos hasn't even scratched the surface of great TB art


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 23, 2008)

Moria breaking the Island in to two was good, even tho I still think he's a retard


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 23, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Why are you guys arguing? And Aethos please change that ava



I hadn't planned on keeping it for long.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jun 23, 2008)

why are all the naruto pics from part 2......................


----------



## MakeEmum (Jun 23, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> You know, if we're comparing backgrounds, you'd think we could all just enjoy the fact that Naruto and One Piece both pwn Bleach in that category, but apparently not.....
> 
> Also, Aethos, I'm not really impressed by yours. Sure, it's detailed, but it feels almost dead. Xell's and Sasuke's first ones are more effective, IMHO, in drawing me into the story.
> 
> ...



I actually thing the first panel of that naruto is seinen level or at least passable in a seinen manga well even if one can't agree that it's on that level
it's very good, it just shows that Kishi *can* draw well, but spends little time on his art on the manga and spends more time.... doing something else.... um.. whatever it is it's not on the manga


----------



## atom (Jun 23, 2008)

For all of you guys that are critizing some of these professional artists' work, how about I see your work? As for me, I wish I was half as good as even the worst of the three (whatever your opinion may be). But, I'm learning how to draw every day. Hopefully in the future I'll have my own manga


----------



## MakeEmum (Jun 23, 2008)

atom said:


> For all of you guys that are critizing some of these professional artists' work, how about I see your work? As for me, I wish I was half as good as even the worst of the three (whatever your opinion may be). But, I'm learning how to draw every day. Hopefully in the future I'll have my own manga



I'm sure you can start a thread on the art section, I think I'll post a drawing, but I'm too lazy to use my brother's scanner


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 23, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I'll never understand why Shonen Jump tolerates Oda's disgusting art.



I can't understand why you think Naruto is the best. Is it because of Sasuke?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 23, 2008)

atom said:


> For all of you guys that are critizing some of these professional artists' work, how about I see your work? As for me, I wish I was half as good as even the worst of the three (whatever your opinion may be). But, I'm learning how to draw every day. Hopefully in the future I'll have my own manga



There's no obligation for them to. They are criticizing one's work, yet praising another, so I think it balances out. Besides, like with anything, you don't have to  be apart of the profession yourself to have a legitimate voice of criticism regarding a person's work within the profession.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 24, 2008)

Chapter 316 Page 05

This is one of my favorite double page spreads in the entire manga.


----------



## Dance (Jun 24, 2008)

atom said:


> For all of you guys that are critizing some of these professional artists' work, how about I see your work?



Not this again. This is seriously one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard. 

It's like saying you have to be a professional baker before you can say someone's cake tastes like shit.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 24, 2008)

atom said:


> For all of you guys that are critizing some of these professional artists' work, how about I see your work?



[YOUTUBE]WAOxY_nHdew[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 24, 2008)

the funny thing is tho, people will read the one of the FIRST chapters of one piece and say its art= shit, but refuse to look at a more recent one because they know the art is actually really good.

At first I hated Oda's art ( even during the Oz fight) but I grew to enjoy it and appreciate the plot and art. I have seen plenty of naruto's art and it pales in comparison. Oda can create an ENTIRE city in ink then have it destroyed the next chapter ( aqua laguna) and it looks so awesome. kishimoto just reuses things, and kubo almost never even has real backgrounds. We are comparing the artists. I doubt most of us here can draw as well as these mangaka. we are just comparing.

If ANYONE here could draw as good as Oda I think getting a job for concept art for a gaming studio would be ridiculously easy.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 24, 2008)

Kishimoto could only make the Madara versus shodaime background because he had like 5 years to draw it, during that time all other backgrounds where trees, dirt and rock woohoo. or re-use the same konoha background everytime.


----------



## Jotun (Jun 24, 2008)

Well to be fair, Kishimoto does have instances of some unique and interesting art. The latest cover with Naruto was really cool. The problem is, we see panels/pages like this once a year from him. Alot of the time you get color book pictures of Sasuke with backgrounds that barely exist.

One Piece on the other hand just gets better every week. Also, I could spend hours just linking double page epicness from One Piece 

Bleach....

hmm...

Well this picture fucking owns 



Edit:

Here are some of my favorites from the 3 series.

OP



Naruto



Bleach

*Spoiler*: __ 



Lol, too lazy plus I stopped caring about Bleach awhile ago


----------



## Akatora (Jun 24, 2008)

Jotun the second pic from OP there is a really good one

Well seeing at Kubo having reemerged into this thread let's have a look at his backgrounds when he want them in:



*Spoiler*: __ 





here

(Perhaps the best pic to show regarding Kubo drawing backgrounds, first is action second is enviounment and third is character focus aka no bg)

here
(Top left panel)


here
(Mid Panel)


here
(Sky and Tree)


here
(Character designs)

here
(character design)

here
(Top panel)


here
(Mid right panel)



here

here
(Trees and the effect of water)


here
(Mid panel)


here
(Mid panel)


here
(Mid right panel)


here
(Buttom right panel)


here
(Gate of the end)


here
(Objects,nicely ordered)


here
(Top right)


here
(Mid panel)


here

here
(Typical Kubo way, with the few objects placed in order)


here panel)
(Notic the lights in ther windows, you can see which ones has light on(white) and which ones have it off Gray)





Colors:

here
(grass,woods, couds, light effects(darker at the top right)

I BE DA PAPPY.
(Lake, Light effects, reflection in water, Forest)

I BE DA PAPPY.
(Palace and Desert)

I BE DA PAPPY.
(Colors of the horizon)


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 24, 2008)

We know that Kubo can draw backgrounds when he wants to (Zombie Powder had decent backgrounds). He's just being lazy.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 24, 2008)

Yeah all three of them are talented artists, but Oda and his assistants just put more effort into it.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

I personally think Naruto has probably the worse assistants around, they're incapable of adding detail, especially to the faces. Togashi who works alone at times has better detail.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 24, 2008)

Well he has bloody long enough to work on detail


----------



## Sylar (Jun 24, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> I personally think Naruto has probably the worse assistants around, they're incapable of adding detail, especially to the faces. Togashi who works alone at times has better detail.



Give me 3 years to work on 10 chapters and I'd draw detail too.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

atom said:


> For all of you guys that are critizing some of these professional artists' work, how about I see your work?



Get out of the thread immediatly.

But seriously, following this train of thought we would work off hierarchy of professional experience.
I'm a second year college art student in Sequential Art. What r u.

See it's to your disadvantage to be retarded about this. 
To my advantage. But I'm not corrupt.
It's bullshit logic.

"The Pilot of flight 345 was drunk but who am I to complain? I am not a professional pilot."


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

> Give me 3 years to work on 10 chapters and I'd draw detail too.



Its still there tho

I used to like Kishi up till a couple of months ago, I wonder why I hate him so much now?


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Its still there tho
> 
> I used to like Kishi up till a couple of months ago, I wonder why I hate him so much now?



It's like being in a bad relationship and finally your passion for them dies and you realize how much they've been treating you like shit.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 24, 2008)

Hey I'm not a professional rapper, that means I cannot trash talk Lil Jon's rapping skillz.


----------



## Fang (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't think you have the right to blame the assistants for the terrible foreground art or detail on support characters like Iruka's collar in the latest chapter when approaching Naruto.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> I don't think you have the right to blame the assistants for the terrible foreground art or detail on support characters like Iruka's collar in the latest chapter when approaching Naruto.



We can however blame the scanslators.


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 24, 2008)

I'll admit the way Iruka's neck and head look is kind of funny.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 24, 2008)

Tite Kubo created the badass Kenpachi. 

Oda pales in comparison.


----------



## Timur Lane (Jun 24, 2008)

Why do you have that ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in your avatar instead of him then?


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (Jun 24, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Tite Kubo created the badass Kenpachi.
> 
> Oda pales in comparison.



Law and Kidd would like to have a word with you.


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 24, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Tite Kubo created the badass Kenpachi.
> 
> Oda pales in comparison.



Marshall D. Teach.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 24, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Tite Kubo created the badass Kenpachi.
> 
> Oda pales in comparison.



Link removed


----------



## Taleran (Jun 24, 2008)

do you want a list? because it'd be pretty damn long


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (Jun 24, 2008)

From the top of my head:

Zoro
Law
Kidd
Rob lucci
Whitebeard
Blackbeard
Shanks
Mihawk
Aokiji
Rayleigh
Ryuuma
Crocodile
Ace
Kaku

All >>>>>>Kenpachi


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 24, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Tite Kubo created the badass Kenpachi.
> 
> Oda pales in comparison.



Kenpachi is indeed one of the most awesome things in Bleach, but he's not unmatched.



> Zoro
> Law
> Kidd
> Rob lucci
> ...



Out of that list: 

Zoro
Law
Shanks
Aokiji
Rayleigh
Ace

are as badass as/more badass than Kenpachi.

I'd also put Doflamingo


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Bear is a better character design than anything in either Bleach or Naruto.


----------



## MdB (Jun 24, 2008)

The Supernova's are better designed than Major players in Naruto and Bleach (Akatsuki and The Espada)


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 24, 2008)

MdB said:


> The Supernova's are better designed than Major players in Naruto and Bleach (Akatsuki and The Espada)



And the Akatsuki have just now increased their threat level after 1 1/2 years.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 24, 2008)

you guys are all thinking too far into the manga


----------



## Timur Lane (Jun 24, 2008)

Not bishonen enough for his "delicate" tastes.


----------



## Gary (Jun 24, 2008)

so no one has just deiced to dig up the shits of every manga and compare them ?



Arcanis said:


> Wait till you visit the Outskirts Battledome.
> 
> The OP wanking is strong...


it can be but every one there happens to hate naruto and i thought this thread was locked away.........


----------



## MdB (Jun 24, 2008)

Timur Lane said:


> Not bishonen enough for his "delicate" tastes.



HE LOOKS GOOFY COMPARED TO THE OUTSTANDING CHARACTER DESIGNS DRAWN BY KISHI AND KUBO LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 24, 2008)

This guy is supposed to be as badass as Kenpachi?  

He looks like a fucking fruit-cake.

So how badass is he? links


----------



## Matariki (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> This guy is supposed to be as badass as Kenpachi?
> 
> He looks like a fucking fruit-cake.



Tell me about it.


----------



## Doom85 (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> This guy is supposed to be as badass as Kenpachi?
> 
> He looks like a fucking fruit-cake.
> 
> So how badass is he? links



The pen is mightier than the sword......


----------



## Sasuke (Jun 24, 2008)

Why do Oda's characters look like out of proportion "cartoon" characters you would find in an amatuer doujin online?

They're all so crude looking.


----------



## Tash (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> This guy is supposed to be as badass as Kenpachi?
> 
> He looks like a fucking fruit-cake.
> 
> So how badass is he? links



JUST AS PLANNED!


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 24, 2008)




----------



## MdB (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> This guy is supposed to be as badass as Kenpachi?
> 
> He looks like a fucking fruit-cake.
> 
> So how badass is he? links





Seiko said:


> Tell me about it.



Because character design equals characterization. Earth-shaking refutations coming from rabid SASUKE fanboys.


----------



## Gary (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Why do Oda's characters look like out of proportion "cartoon" characters you would find in an amatuer doujin online?
> 
> They're all so crude looking.



why are you a sasuke tard ?


----------



## Tash (Jun 24, 2008)

Honestly though, are you really criticizing one manga because Zoro holds one sword in his teeth, and then praising another where Orochimaru deep-throats his sword, and Naruto sucks on crows?


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Why do Oda's characters look like out of proportion "cartoon" characters you would find in an amatuer doujin online?
> 
> They're all so crude looking.



Show us Oda failing at proportion.

It would look something like this.


----------



## MdB (Jun 24, 2008)

Apparently deepthroating crows is okay as long as it happens in Naruto. But when Someone is holding a sword in his mouth....


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 24, 2008)

MdB said:


> Because character design equals characterization. *Earth-shaking* refutations coming from rabid SASUKE fanboys.



I'll bite

Ussupp fire
Ussupp fire


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Yes...like that Mihawk guy, have you seen his sword?
> 
> Looks like a cross or something...very strange.
> 
> And why does Zoro fight with a sword held in his mouth?



He was talking about proportions, how do sword shapes and Zoro fighting with three swords have anything to do with that.

Sasuke is better than you at this. Your the little dog on his shoulder that yaps. Learn your place.


----------



## MdB (Jun 24, 2008)

So Seiko do you have anything to say besides speaking with Sasuke's dick in your mouth?


----------



## LivingInjustice (Jun 24, 2008)

MdB said:


> So Seiko do you have anything to say besides speaking with Sasuke's dick in your mouth?



I was about to ask if they're the same person, but this seems more likely.  Sounded like he was making his own backup for his silly posts.


----------



## MdB (Jun 24, 2008)

LivingInjustice said:


> I was about to ask if they're the same person, but this seems more likely.  Sounded like he was making his own backup for his silly posts.



Nah, they're likely just best buttbuddies.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> This guy is supposed to be as badass as Kenpachi?
> 
> *He looks like a fucking fruit-cake.*
> 
> So how badass is he? links



Coming from an Uchiha fan the bolded part is fucking rich

Anyway he does stuff like that:

they are trying to not get hit.

While your precious pretty boy ninjas cut through kunais and wooden doors


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Norland is badass.
they are trying to not get hit.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 24, 2008)

Stop over looking Calgara you heathens


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

OH GOD!!!!
WUZZMAN IS GOING TO POST.


----------



## Lusankya (Jun 24, 2008)

This thread cracks me up.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 24, 2008)

Xell said:


> Jesus fucking Christ.. It's awful.
> 
> Just look at it. How is Kishimoto actually proud of that?!
> 
> ...



F#CK YOU!!!111 HE USES TWO HANDS!!!! WHICH IS MORE THAN ONE!!!


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 24, 2008)

Xell said:


> Kenpachi? I bet when Kubo Tite created him he said something like "Right, I guess my characters are starting to get a bit generic, so I guess I'll make a new type of character! Only he won't be new! He's actually the stereotypical 'badass' we see in pretty much all shonen manga. YES! THE FANS WILL EAT THIS UP! WHAT A BUNCH OF SAPS"
> 
> When Kenpachi does something this awesome:
> 
> ...



oh come on. Don't insult one of the few good things about Bleach:


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

He's a cool character given nothing cool to be cool in.


----------



## AndrewGreen (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke

how are you insulting characters when you have not read the story

that seems pretty stupid

but

you're sasuke

so I'm not surprised


----------



## atom (Jun 24, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Get out of the thread immediatly.
> 
> But seriously, following this train of thought we would work off hierarchy of professional experience.
> I'm a second year college art student in Sequential Art. What r u.
> ...


That just means that you might know what you are talking about. Thats all. Also, your analogy is nonsense. Not because its a bad analogy, but because what I'm trying to say is different from what I think you are trying to say to me. 



> There's no obligation for them to. They are criticizing one's work, yet praising another, so I think it balances out. Besides, like with anything, you don't have to be apart of the profession yourself to have a legitimate voice of criticism regarding a person's work within the profession.


I never said that. What I mean is, you should have at least some experience with art/drawing/painting/digital art/vectoring, something when regards to art, SOMETHING. Obviously you don't need one to like or dislike something, but some of the posts in this thread are nonsense "The proportions are wrong the detail is not showing correctly, the backgrounds of so and so are not as asthetically pleasing as his, etc"



> Not this again. This is seriously one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard.
> 
> It's like saying you have to be a professional baker before you can say someone's cake tastes like shit.


I never said that at all. I do think that you should know a thing about baking and culinary arts before you can go around critizing and making suggestions and saying specific things that are wrong with a cake though.


Surely you guys don't think wine tasters know nothing about wine? Or Olypmic judges know nothing about the event they are judging? Don't be ridiculous. Taking my statement out of context really isn't helping anyone.


As for the thread, all three drawn great. /Thread. As for plot, I prefer One Piece, then Bleach, then Naruto. Though it changes depending on any certain things happening.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

> That just means that you might know what you are talking about. Thats all. Also, your analogy is nonsense.



Haha, no it isn't.



> I never said that. What I mean is, you should have at least some experience with art/drawing/painting/digital art/vectoring, something when regards to art, SOMETHING. Obviously you don't need one to like or dislike something, but some of the posts in this thread are nonsense "The proportions are wrong the detail is not showing correctly, the backgrounds of so and so are not as asthetically pleasing as his, etc"



Some of those are nonsense, some are not.
Here's a coo idea, how about instead of attacking the person, attack the argument they make.



> I never said that at all. I do think that you should know a thing about baking and culinary arts before you can go around critizing and making suggestions and saying specific things that are wrong with a cake though.



You just don't get it do you bro.




> Surely you guys don't think wine tasters know nothing about wine? Or Olypmic judges know nothing about the event they are judging? Don't be ridiculous. Taking my statement out of context really isn't helping anyone.



No one took it out of context. Your making a really poor point. Your going about your notion completely backwards. 



> As for the thread, all three drawn great. /Thread.



What is your professional artist opinion about Kubo's overuse of white space, and Kishimoto's near lack of any value in his drawings and overuse of blackspace in recent chapters.


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 24, 2008)

But we don't need to be like olympic judges,

we can have our own opinion by just looking good. And the conclusion is nothing less that Naruto and Bleach it's makers are lazy when it comes to art, design, proportion and consistency.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

People if your gonna argue then do it properly, calling someone a "dick rider" is not a valid argument.

Even though I'm not a huge fan of Kubo (he rips of YYH too much), he did give me Szayel and Mayuri, not to mention one of the greatest shonen comebacks ever:

Link removed
relationship
Link removed

Tenticle rape is the best


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 24, 2008)

Szayel was one of the worst things about the HM arc


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> Szayel was one of the worst things about the HM arc



That seems to be the consensus but like I give a darn, he's fucking awesome.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Szayel is a horrible character.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

Like I said before, he's a acquired taste and most people hate him. But I don't care, he's awesome to me and he did not fuck up HM, he fucking saved it


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Pretty boy sadists with glasses are the faggiest characters this side of Shinji.
Sorry duder.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

Each to their own, lets get off the subject of Szayel>_>


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 24, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Why do Oda's characters look like out of proportion "cartoon" characters you would find in an amatuer doujin online?
> 
> They're all so crude looking.




Do we need to get Sasuke from 306? **


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

> Why do Oda's characters look like out of proportion *"cartoon" *characters



As opposed to the realistic looking Naruto characters?


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> Do we need to get Sasuke from 306? **





I still don't know.

Also Kishimoto is really bad about drawing female proportions.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

Appendix maybe?

Kishi can't darw women, Sakura looks like a man half the time.


----------



## atom (Jun 24, 2008)

> But we don't need to be like olympic judges,
> 
> we can have our own opinion by just looking good. And the conclusion is nothing less that Naruto and Bleach it's makers are lazy when it comes to art, design, proportion and consistency.


Fair enough. How would you recommend getting better at drawing (besides just drawing everyday)?

Heh, and to believe that was the only thing you said regarding my post. I was wrong. Heh


> Haha, no it isn't.


Mind explaining it then?



> Some of those are nonsense, some are not.
> Here's a coo idea, how about instead of attacking the person, attack the argument they make.


Except I'm not attacking anything.



> No one took it out of context. Your making a really poor point. Your going about your notion completely backwards.


Perhaps, but it is undeniable that you should know something about art before you can go around critizing art. If you don't know anything about proportions then can you critize them? etc. 



> What is your professional artist opinion about Kubo's overuse of white space, and Kishimoto's near lack of any value in his drawings and overuse of blackspace in recent chapters.


I am not a professional artist, hence I'm not going to critize any of them. I am not that knowledgable of art. Perhaps Kubo is purposely leaving white space maybe Kishimoto wants art to be abtract. I wouldn't know.



This thread is worthless anyway, it seems that people who like One Piece say One Piece art is the best and so on for the other two.


But you know what Zephos, like I said, you know more about art then me. This "argument" will inevitable end you as the victor. So I concede handily.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

atom said:


> Fair enough. How would you recommend getting better at drawing (besides just drawing everyday)?



Draw from observation.
People, objects, real life scenes.


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 24, 2008)

Zephos said:


> I still don't know.
> 
> * Also Kishimoto is really bad about drawing female proportions.*


Everyone knows that. His brother was good at it though.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 24, 2008)

Zephos said:


> I still don't know.
> 
> Also Kishimoto is really bad about drawing female proportions.



in before "ODAS WOMAN ARE STICK FIGURES AND TOTALLY UGLY AND UNREALISTIC! KISHI DRAWS WOMAN HOW THEY REALLY ARE!"


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

Well Robin ain't the prettiest girl

relationship

Atleast one brother can draw naked women.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 24, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> in before "ODAS WOMAN ARE STICK FIGURES AND TOTALLY UGLY AND UNREALISTIC! KISHI DRAWS WOMAN HOW THEY REALLY ARE!"



Of course because real women aren't just walking boobs. 

But in any case I like the originality of Oda's work. I mean what's so special about Kubo or Kishi's style? They pretty much use the same template as many other manga artists out there. It's not like Kishi and Kubo introduced the bishounen or anything.

Oda's style breaks the mold though. I think that's one of the things I appreciate about it most. Sure it takes some time to get used too but I really couldn't picture the characters any other way.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 24, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> in before "ODAS WOMAN ARE STICK FIGURES AND TOTALLY UGLY AND UNREALISTIC! KISHI DRAWS WOMAN HOW THEY REALLY ARE!"



Oda's proportions are just abstractions.

Kishi's women are just male bodies with boobs.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

Konan is really ugly, even I was shocked at what Kishi did to her.


----------



## atom (Jun 24, 2008)

I think 666 Satan is pretty close to One Piece when it comes to art. IMO anyway.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

Its has nice backgrounds but the characters aren't very good at all, it has a serious lack of detail for a monthly manga.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 24, 2008)

Zephos said:


> I still don't know.
> 
> Also Kishimoto is really bad about drawing female proportions.



Probably the scar through which they removed all his internal organs before stuffing him

That's why he looks like one of these shitty wax statues most of the time, because he really is one


----------



## atom (Jun 24, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Its has nice backgrounds but the characters aren't very good at all, it has a serious lack of detail for a monthly manga.


The characters lack detail? What? They do? They don't at least for the first few chapters. I don't recall the later ones detail (Too lazy to check). The ending sucked too.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 24, 2008)

well as far as monthly manga's go I'd say FMA is pretty detailed. I mean sure the art seems a bit bland sometimes but it has some moments like this

flashback 

It's not the best but you have to admit it is pretty detailed.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 24, 2008)

The faces lack detail and shading, I love the manga tho, the first one I ever read, shame the ending sucked.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 24, 2008)

FMA could easily be a weekly manga imo


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 24, 2008)

yeah it probably could.

and I'm guessing it wouldn't be wise to bring up fairy tale.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 24, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Tell me about it.



I know I'm new around here

But a post insulting Norland coming from someone with a Hitsugaya avatar...?


----------



## Sylar (Jun 24, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> The faces lack detail and shading, I love the manga tho, the first one I ever read, shame the ending sucked.



Kishi's bro had to rush the ending so he could get to his awesome new manga about stickers.


----------



## atom (Jun 24, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Kishi's bro had to rush the ending so he could get to his awesome new manga about stickers.


lmao........


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 24, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Kishi's bro had to rush the ending so he could get to his awesome new manga about stickers.



Well at least we can look forward to Kishimoto's next work about the mafia. I'm sure Seiko will probably like it since it's bound to have a Sasuke character in it.


----------



## Just Blaze (Jun 24, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Well at least we can look forward to Kishimoto's next work about the mafia. I'm sure Seiko will probably like it since it's bound to have a Sasuke character in it.



Knowing Kishi, he'll add 2 Sasukes so he can fap twice as much.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 24, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Well at least we can look forward to Kishimoto's next work about the mafia. I'm sure Seiko will probably like it since it's bound to have a Sasuke character in it.



He ripped Naruto off of HxH, so what do you think he's going to ripoff next?


----------



## p-lou (Jun 24, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> He ripped Naruto off of HxH, so what do you think he's going to ripoff next?



He's already trying Berserk.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 24, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> He ripped Naruto off of HxH, so what do you think he's going to ripoff next?




Well apparently the series will be called Mario. So I can hardly guess what he'll ripoff next. For all I know it could be something like this

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciubx6RijLo[/YOUTUBE]



Gummyvites said:


> Knowing Kishi, he'll add 2 Sasukes so he can fap twice as much.



Why stop at two?


----------



## Starrk (Jun 24, 2008)

Harem of Saucekay.


----------



## atom (Jun 24, 2008)

Kishimoto's next series will be called Mario? It's about the Mafia? Its coming soon? Its Shounen? Mafia? Shounen? Oh god.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 25, 2008)

Zephos said:


> I still don't know.
> 
> Also Kishimoto is really bad about drawing female proportions.


amazing 
Sasuke sama looks damn hot there. Kishimoto is an Incredible mangaka. His level of talent is unmatched. It distresses me to see such a great artist being compared to mediocre mangaka. Kishimoto is in a class of his own.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 25, 2008)

If Akatsuki are a rip off of GR then Kishi fails, they don't even compare. 



> Kishimoto's next series will be called Mario? It's about the Mafia? Its coming soon? Its Shounen? Mafia? Shounen? Oh god.



Sounds great, Luigi will go to the dark side and Mario will spend half the manga whining about it.


----------



## El Torero (Jun 25, 2008)

Kishimoto´s next manga is about Mafia? He´ll need to work very hard if he wants his Mafia Manga being better than Hitman Reborn


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 25, 2008)

Sakata Gintoki said:


> Kishimoto?s next manga is about Mafia? He?ll need to work very hard if he wants his Mafia Manga being better than Hitman Reborn


He just need to recycle Sasuke sama's design pek, that'll make his next manga the greatest mafia manga ever.[Yes even better than Gungrave ]


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 25, 2008)

Sakata Gintoki said:


> Kishimoto?s next manga is about Mafia? He?ll need to work very hard if he wants his Mafia Manga being better than Hitman Reborn



KHR sucks. JJBA 5 and Gungrave are WAY better


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 25, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> KHR sucks. JJBA 5 and Gungrave are WAY better



The characters in Golden Wu?nd look gay tho.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 25, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> The characters in Golden Wu?nd look gay tho.



Their costumes are an intentional parody of some of the over-the-top Italian styles. Odd clothes that look gay to us are considered normal over there. It's one of those weird cultural things.

And many of them have still had moments of pure awesomeness. Giorno's fight with Green Day and Oasis kicked ass


----------



## Fang (Jun 25, 2008)

Diamond is Unbreakable > Golden Wind.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 25, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Diamond is Unbreakable > Golden Wind.



You just say that because of the pimp that is Kira. 

I think part 5 was pwnsome. 

I doubt IRL Italians looked that way. ?


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 25, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Diamond is Unbreakable > Golden Wind.



Save for Red Hot Chili Pepper and Rohan, it was slow for me until Kira appeared.

The Parts for me in order are

Steel Ball Run
Battle Tendency
Diamond is Unbreakable (2nd half)
Golden Wind
Stardust Crusaders (2nd half)
Phantom Blood
Stardust Crusaders (1st half)
Diamond is Unbreakable (1st half)

Haven't read enough of translated Stone Ocean yet to accurately judge





Aokiji said:


> I doubt IRL Italians looked that way. ?


 Like I said, it's an exaggerated parody, but that whole metro thing has always been popular in some places in Italy


----------



## Fang (Jun 25, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Save for Red Hot Chili Pepper and Rohan, it was slow for me until Kira appeared.
> 
> The Parts for me in order are
> 
> ...



Part II is only good because of Cyborg Stroheim, Wham, ACDC, Cars and Joseph.

Mine goes like this.

Diamond is Unbreakable.
Battle Tendency.
Phantom Blood.
Stardust Crusaders/Golden Wind.

I can't judge Stone Ocean or Steel Ball Run yet because I haven't read them at all and I'm still working through Golden Wind.


----------



## atom (Jun 25, 2008)

Stone Ocean is pretty cool. Stone Free is a pretty impressive stand. Needs more boobies though.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 25, 2008)

I you're into fitness models, you'll see your tastes fulfilled.


----------



## MdB (Jun 25, 2008)

No Seiko makes me sad.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 25, 2008)

His quote in my sig makes me sad...


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (Jun 25, 2008)

The thing that annoys me though is that Kubo at least could have been on Oda's level or much closer if he wasn't such a lazy-ass. He created great character concepts and a good storyline, just that he got lazy and started to half-ass alot of things. But he has shown that when he wants to, he can make great arcs like the flashback arc. Just need someone to light up a fire under his ass.

Kishi on the other hand, he's just lost it. Had a great part 1 but then fell on his face in part 2 and never recovered.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 25, 2008)

> He's one of the strongest Captains.



Even Seiko can be an idiot sometimes, tho Im sure he must have been joking.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 25, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> KHR sucks. JJBA 5 and Gungrave are WAY better



More people need to see Gungrave

I imagine the first episode puts them off


----------



## Fang (Jun 25, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> He just need to recycle Sasuke sama's design pek, that'll make his next manga the greatest mafia manga ever.[Yes even better than Gungrave ]



Hahahahahahahaha.



Ennoea said:


> Even Seiko can be an idiot sometimes, tho Im sure he must have been joking.



He? No one even knows its gender. And its always a tool. Half the time it just trolls around because its that pathetic.



Nuzzie said:


> More people need to see Gungrave
> 
> I imagine the first episode puts them off



Indeed, Gungrave is the shit. 

Especially Bloody Harry.


----------



## MdB (Jun 25, 2008)

Someone should post Tobi drawn as a few lines with a mask.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2008)

Thinking of this?


----------



## MdB (Jun 25, 2008)

No the other useless one, were he covered an entire page.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2008)




----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 25, 2008)

Did he draw that on MS Paint?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2008)

Wouldnt surprise me if he actualy did


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 25, 2008)

He does draw his manga on the computer amirite 

POLYGONZ


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

On Gungrave, while the series itself isn't exactly the best in my book, "Die" is one of my favorite anime episodes


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]cNP6lz65GqI[/YOUTUBE]






Giorno Giovanna said:


> The thing that annoys me though is that Kubo at least could have been on Oda's level or much closer if he wasn't such a lazy-ass. He created great character concepts and a good storyline, just that he got lazy and started to half-ass alot of things. But he has shown that when he wants to, he can make great arcs like the flashback arc. Just need someone to light up a fire under his ass.
> 
> Kishi on the other hand, he's just lost it. Had a great part 1 but then fell on his face in part 2 and never recovered.



While some concepts Bleach currently (Grimmjow) are great, I just really wish Kubo had kept his musically themed suburban horror manga instead of taking the Yu Yu Hakusho route


my heavens look at that artistic brilliance and stunning realism

I'm compelled to write a five paragraph essay detailing the well-crafted symbolism within


----------



## Fang (Jun 25, 2008)

Why are you praising Kubo for Grimmjow?

His character design and personality is a watered down version of Gamma Akutubi from Zombie Powder.

And C.T Smith > almost any character from Bleach.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 25, 2008)

Pilot said:


> On Gungrave, while the series itself isn't exactly the best in my book, "Die" is one of my favorite anime episodes
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Yeah that episode was great. Damn now I really need to rewatch it, such an amazing show.

And I'm pretty sure you've been beaten on that front


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Why are you praising Kubo for Grimmjow?
> 
> His character design and personality is a watered down version of Gamma Akutubi from Zombie Powder.
> 
> And C.T Smith > almost any character from Bleach.



Haha, once I was messing with my bookshelf and actually laughed aloud



I liked Zombie Powder and felt it had more potential than Bleach, but I kept having Trigun flashbacks while reading it

All in all Kubo can shine on occasion but reeks of wasted potential, while Oda is consistently creative and entertaining

and Kishimoto

well

you know


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 25, 2008)

haha holy shit I never noticed that

that's freakin' great


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 25, 2008)

Ikkaku Madarame was the best thing Kubo Tite made in his run with Bleach. Definately needed more of him less Ichigo, Rukia, Orihime.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 25, 2008)

The Communist Manifesto said:


> Ikkaku Madarame was the best thing Kubo Tite made in his run with Bleach. Definately needed more of him less Ichigo, Rukia, Orihime.



Ikkaku should be fucking shit up in Karakura town instead of that ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) Hitsugaya


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> If Akatsuki are a rip off of GR then Kishi fails, they don't even compare.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds great, Luigi will go to the dark side and Mario will spend half the manga whining about it.



and of course there will be an evil organization headed by Bowser but the real leader being Wario or Waluigi that's after Mario for some reason. Meanwhile Peach learns how to punch the ground and everyone else stands around doing nothing.


----------



## Xell (Jun 25, 2008)

I feel sorry for Togashi.

Kishimoto ripped ideas from Hunter x Hunter.
Tite ripped ideas from Yu Yu Hakusho.

And yet outside of Japan in the US, Hunter x Hunter and Yu Yu Hakusho don't have the same following as Naruto and Bleach.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 25, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> Ikkaku should be fucking shit up in Karakura town instead of that ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) Hitsugaya



I beg your pardon?


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 25, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I beg your pardon?



Come on dude, Hitsugaya fan or not Ikakku is one of Kubo's better creations.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I beg your pardon?



seiko here to defend the precious ice prince


----------



## Byakuya (Jun 25, 2008)

Hitsugaya is incredible.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

~L~ said:


> Hitsugaya is incredible.



thank you for your in-depth post

your contribution to the issues at hand is priceless


----------



## Byakuya (Jun 25, 2008)

I know.

Hitsugaya > OPverse


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

~L~ said:


> I know.
> 
> Hitsugaya > OPverse



the greater than sign

the be all end all of comparative arguments

it appears I shall have to concede to your boundless wit


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2008)

~L~ said:


> I know.
> 
> Hitsugaya > OPverse



Hitsugaya taking it alone stopped being funny ages ago, so please.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

why was it ever funny

last time i checked hitsugaya could suck the fun out of anything


----------



## Sylar (Jun 25, 2008)

Pilot said:


> why was it ever funny
> 
> last time i checked hitsugaya could suck the fun out of anything



Because don't you find the thought of Hitsugaya could take anything stronger than a paraphaligic midget with Down's Syndrome by himself hilarious?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 25, 2008)

Pilot said:


> why was it ever funny
> 
> last time i checked hitsugaya could suck the fun out of anything



You wouldnt know unless you were in the Bleach Section back in the old days 

Anyway its a longrunning joke which is just patheticly overused now, i find it annoying.

Evening Sylar 

Edit: The only reason i found it kinda funny awhile ago was because he is patheticaly weak, he is good bashing material you know


----------



## MdB (Jun 25, 2008)

Nothing associated to Hitsugaya is funny. Period.


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 25, 2008)

Just by looking at his face you can tell that he hates anything having to do with fun.

One can wonder how having a monotone voice and a blank expression 24/7 can get you such a huge fanbase


----------



## Aldric (Jun 25, 2008)

Seriously how the fuck can grown up males be fans of Sasuke and Hitsugaya

I could understand if you were a 12 year old girl

But this

Just how


----------



## Fang (Jun 25, 2008)

Shittiest Captain in the Gotei 13 easily.

He got fucked up by a Fraccion Arrancar. And Yammy was even mocking Hitsugaya.


----------



## Timur Lane (Jun 25, 2008)

PlaygroundPredator said:


> Just by looking at his face you can tell that he hates anything having to do with fun.
> 
> One can wonder how having a monotone voice and a blank expression 24/7 can get you such a huge fanbase



Hitsugaya is pretty much the retarded poster boy of "generic-animu-prodigys".

Which seems is like the character archetype most ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) gather to.

Just my two cents.


----------



## MdB (Jun 25, 2008)

Hitsugaya is Bleach's Sasuke. What more is there to it than simply lovin' such an outstanding character? 

Then there's Byakuya.....


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 25, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Seriously how the fuck can grown up males be fans of Sasuke and Hitsugaya
> 
> I could understand if you were a 12 year old girl
> 
> ...



Wishful thinking probably

MAN I WISH I COULD HAVE BEEN THAT COOL AS A PRETEEN


----------



## Aldric (Jun 25, 2008)

They probably identify with Sasuke because like him they want to get revenge against their parents that didn't buy them the last Pokemon or against the meanies at school that give them wedgies

SUCH A DARK AND DEEP CHARACTER


----------



## Timur Lane (Jun 25, 2008)

He has ice-powers, which is a metaphor for how cold he is inside.

SO DEEP AND BEAUTIFUL!! JUST LIKE ME!!! 


Edit: Like Aldric said.


----------



## MdB (Jun 25, 2008)

He cried! 

What a wide array of emotions.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 25, 2008)

What a guy!


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 25, 2008)

Aldric said:


> They probably identify with Sasuke because like him they want to get revenge against their parents that didn't buy them the last Pokemon or against the meanies at school that give them wedgies
> 
> SUCH A DARK AND DEEP CHARACTER



"I'll kick your ass with my ANNOYED STARE "

Later...

"Ow why do my eyes bleed so much"


----------



## MdB (Jun 25, 2008)

Seiko said:


> What a guy!


----------



## Aldric (Jun 25, 2008)

Look at his tiny little retard's arms

You just have this urge to squash him under your heel like a roach

I bet his blood is gooey green too


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 25, 2008)

Kishi gives computer art a bad name.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 25, 2008)

Seiko said:


> What a guy!



What better guys!

this


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

HE'S AS COOOLD AS ICE


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 25, 2008)

Lol at the Hitsugaya defending, I know its a joke but still people know when to stop.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

Eventually the Sasuke and Hitsugaya fans will collide, and like a big bang of faggotry they'll create Sasuke x Hitsugaya crossover yaoi fanart and fanfiction. It will be the first sign of the apocolypse.


----------



## Fang (Jun 25, 2008)

Stop it, Aethos.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

I'm sorry that my brand of funny isn't as great as yours. I guess gay jokes and calling people emo is just your guys forte while not mine.


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Jun 25, 2008)

Bleach is the series title because Ichigo bleaches his hair.

That makes it automatically better than One Piece.


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 25, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Eventually the Sasuke and Hitsugaya fans will collide, and like a big bang of faggotry they'll create Sasuke x Hitsugaya crossover yaoi fanart and fanfiction. It will be the first sign of the apocolypse.





Aethos said:


> Fuck you...
> 
> I'm sorry that my brand of funny isn't as great as yours. I guess _gay jokes_ and calling people emo is just your guys forte while not mine.



You're right, that last one was downright shitty.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 25, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I'm sorry that my brand of funny isn't as great as yours. I guess gay jokes and calling people emo is just your guys forte while not mine.



I like to imagine Aetho's posts being said by Urkel, with full on emphasis to the already painful sarcasm in his voice.
When the post is over Urkel turn to the camera and gives a big wink.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

Deathbringerpt said:


> Bleach is the series title because Ichigo bleaches his hair.
> 
> That makes it automatically better than One Piece.



Actually, I've read that it was titled after Nirvana's debut album

derp


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 25, 2008)

> Bleach is the series title because Ichigo bleaches his hair.
> 
> That makes it automatically better than One Piece.





Why don't we all just agree to disagree, this thread became pointless many posts ago.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

PlaygroundPredator said:


> You're right, that last one was downright shitty.



Okay how's this one?

Sasuke is a shitty emo ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and his fanbase only likes him because they wish they were as cool (however they're already just as shitty ) as him.  Sasuke is the deepest character in all of manga history because he cries and angsts all the time. SO ORIGINAL! Oh and Hitsugaya sucks ass too because he's a bishounen ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who doesn't deserve to be more popular than Kenpachi. His eyes and monotone voice makes him sound so cold and emotionless that it's fucking KAWAII to the idiots that buy into that shit.

There does that sound closer to YOUR brand of humor? Personally I can't tell the difference between this and the shit that's been spouted on the last few pages. I guess the true art of being funny is that you don't have to try at all.



> I like to imagine Aetho's posts being said by Urkel, with full on emphasis to the already painful sarcasm in his voice.
> When the post is over Urkel turn to the camera and gives a big wink.



I like to imagine Zephos as being the kind of guy who thinks that the more you know about anime/manga and the better you debate it on the internet shows how superior he is to everyone else.

I think we can all learn a lesson from Zephos. That the highest form of intelligence is how well you debate anime/manga on the internet.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 25, 2008)

Why the fuck do you even bother trying to appease people on the internet?


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 25, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Okay how's this one?
> 
> Sasuke is a shitty emo ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and his fanbase only likes him because they wish they were as cool (however they're already just as shitty ) as him.  Sasuke is the deepest character in all of manga history because he cries and angsts all the time. SO ORIGINAL! Oh and Hitsugaya sucks ass too because he's a bishounen ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who doesn't deserve to be more popular than Kenpachi. His eyes and monotone voice makes him sound so cold and emotionless that it's fucking KAWAII to the idiots that buy into that shit.
> 
> There does that sound closer to YOUR brand of humor? Personally I can't tell the difference between this and the shit that's been spouted on the last few pages. I guess the true art of being funny is that you don't have to try at all.



oh boy


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

Taleran said:


> Why the fuck do you even bother trying to appease people on the internet?



Why the fuck do you insult people on the internet? It's not like that makes you a better person or anything.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 25, 2008)

Lotsa E-feelings and E-pride being hurt in this thread.... 

Let's just all calm down and agree that Sasuke sucks.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 25, 2008)

OP and ODA are superior in every way shape or form, to the faggotry known as Bleach and Naruto. Anybody who opposes this assessment should kill themselves. Close it up mods.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Lotsa E-feelings and E-pride being hurt in this thread....
> 
> Let's just all calm down and agree that Sasuke sucks.



Yeah Sasuke sucks that's the most important thing. No reason to start a e-warr over who has the funnier posts and all.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 25, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Why don't we all just agree to disagree, this thread became pointless many posts ago.



When did this thread ever have a point?  The only reason OP vs Naruto vs Bleach threads don't get closed is because a new one would pop up five minuets later.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 25, 2008)

I was a lil harsh on my previous post. Bleach and Naruto are OK, but just not my cup of tee. With that said, OP>all


And ODA is GOD himself. You should all know this and worship him. Unless you want to go to hell


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

p-lou said:


> When did this thread ever have a point?  The only reason OP vs Naruto vs Bleach threads don't get closed is because a new one would pop up five minuets later.



I don't even see why Naruto and Bleach HAVE to be compared to One Piece. I mean would it really make people feel better if Naruto and Bleach WERE superior to One Piece?


----------



## Zephos (Jun 25, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Okay how's this one?
> 
> Sasuke is a shitty emo ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and his fanbase only likes him because they wish they were as cool (however they're already just as shitty ) as him.  Sasuke is the deepest character in all of manga history because he cries and angsts all the time. SO ORIGINAL! Oh and Hitsugaya sucks ass too because he's a bishounen ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who doesn't deserve to be more popular than Kenpachi. His eyes and monotone voice makes him sound so cold and emotionless that it's fucking KAWAII to the idiots that buy into that shit.
> 
> ...



[YOUTUBE]Ncw70Hw1ffs[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 25, 2008)

MdB said:


> He cried!
> 
> What a wide array of emotions.


He cried after reading the last 20 chapters of this shit.


*Spoiler*: __ 



What's next for Kidd? He's gonna rip the iron out of people's blood?


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

Zephos said:


> [YOUTUBE]Ncw70Hw1ffs[/YOUTUBE]



ah family matters. I love that show.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 25, 2008)

Aethos said:


> ah family matters. I love that show.
> 
> *winks at camera*



.............


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

Zephos... that was just pathetic.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 25, 2008)

i miss seiko and ~L~

where'd they go


----------



## p-lou (Jun 25, 2008)

Pilot said:


> i miss seiko and ~L~
> 
> where'd they go



Daily Uchiha circle jerk.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 25, 2008)

yeah new chapter comes out around now doesn't it? It's probably no surprise they'd be up in the library instead of here.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 25, 2008)

FUCKIN OPNE PIECE MOTehr FUCKERS

ODA IS GOD, GET ON YOUR KKNEES AND WORSHIP FOOLS


----------



## Taleran (Jun 25, 2008)

p-lou said:


> When did this thread ever have a point?  The only reason OP vs Naruto vs Bleach threads don't get closed is because a new one would pop up five minuets later.



ding ding ding


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 25, 2008)

Dragon said:


> I was a lil harsh on my previous post. Bleach and Naruto are OK, but just not my cup of tee. With that said, OP>all
> 
> 
> And ODA is GOD himself. You should all know this and worship him. Unless you want to go to hell



I think this is obvious when we examine the naruto complaints thread and the OP complaints thread.

in the naruto complaints thread, we find things like : "DAMM YOU KISHIMOTO, STOP RIDING SASUKE's DICK".

in the One Piece complaints thread we find... o wait thats right. THere isn't a one piece complaint thread because there is nothing to complain about .


----------



## Random Nobody (Jun 25, 2008)

Technically there isn't an OP complaint thread anymore, the mods got rid of it because no one was actually complaining and we where all just using it as an excuse to goof off.


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 25, 2008)

Random Nobody said:


> Technically there isn't an OP complaint thread anymore, the mods got rid of it because no one was actually complaining and we where all just using it as an excuse to goof off.



exactly. it wasn't even a complain thread. it was just another thread expressing how amazing Oda was. you DEFINITELY do not find that in the naruto parts.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 25, 2008)

Kid needs his own coverstory...


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Jun 25, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Why don't we all just agree to disagree, this thread became pointless many posts ago.



You mean you actually expected decent discussion in this thread?

Wow.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 26, 2008)

Shoddragon said:


> I think this is obvious when we examine the naruto complaints thread and the OP complaints thread.
> 
> in the naruto complaints thread, we find things like : "DAMM YOU KISHIMOTO, STOP RIDING SASUKE's DICK".
> 
> in the One Piece complaints thread we find... o wait thats right. THere isn't a one piece complaint thread because there is nothing to complain about .



I love you.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Why isn't there some onepiecefan.com website so they can go migrate over there?


----------



## Xell (Jun 26, 2008)

atom said:


> Why isn't there some onepiecefan.com website so they can go migrate over there?



Because we love this place so much.


----------



## Basilikos (Jun 26, 2008)

atom said:


> Why isn't there some onepiecefan.com website so they can go migrate over there?


Because they feel the need to bash Bleach and Naruto 24/7 as well as swarm any poster with criticism who gives even a tiny amount of praise to Naruto or Bleach. 

I don't mind if people don't like certain anime/manga but this is ridiculous.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 26, 2008)

Basilikos said:


> Because they feel the need to bash Bleach and Naruto 24/7 as well as swarm any poster with criticism who gives even a tiny amount of praise to Naruto or Bleach.
> 
> I don't mind if people don't like certain anime/manga but this is ridiculous.



If you actually read the fucking manga without judging it, than I would never swarm you. The thing that gets me about OP haters, is they judge the book by its cover.

"ITZ A FUCKNIJ KID CARTOON!"(Irony is my dumbass used to say this and I avoided OP for 2 years because of the animation.)

Or you criticize it over something completely stupid, and make it sound like you are blindly hating. For instance, "Why would i watch a stupid cartooon with a talking reindeer!?!?"

have you heard of creative thinking and uniqueness? I dont know about you, but im sick of all these bleach type mangas, always trying to make their characters look cool, copying DBZ with the spikey hair and shit. ODA should get props for trying something different, and using his imagination. Goes to show you Kishi and Kubo are bandwagon jumping bitches who have to steal ideas from other people.

For the record, Pandaman and Chopper>Bleach and Naruto. So THERE!

Dont judge a manga off the animation. Like I did. After I gave OP a chance, it became my alltime fav anime. Give it a chance and stop being a stubborn idiot. I know you are scared that something may be better than your precious Naruto or Bleach, but give it a chance and you wont regret it. OP is the greatest shonen of alltime.


----------



## Basilikos (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> If you actually read the fucking manga without judging it, than I would never swarm you. The thing that gets me about OP haters, is they judge the book by its cover.


I have been reading it, I've read up to chapter 114 and it has yet to be even considered decent in my book. I heard it becomes awesome at Alabasta arc so I skipped to chapter 150 and I am reading that now. Oh and I'm not a OP hater, I simply don't understand what people see in this manga.



Dragon said:


> "ITZ A FUCKNIJ KID CARTOON!"(Irony is my dumbass used to say this and I avoided OP for 2 years because of the animation.)
> 
> Or you criticize it over something completely stupid, and make it sound like you are blindly hating. For instance, "Why would i watch a stupid cartooon with a talking reindeer!?!?"


Sounds like you're trying to quote me when I have never said anything like that.



Dragon said:


> have you heard of creative thinking and uniqueness? I dont know about you, but im sick of all these bleach type mangas, always trying to make their characters look cool, copying DBZ with the spikey hair and shit.


You are justified in your anger that people don't give OP a fair chance because they only judge it by its character designs. But that doesn't mean OP>all other manga and that anyone with a different opinion is a n00b to anime and cannot be considered an intelligent individual.



Dragon said:


> ODA should get props for trying something different, and using his imagination. Goes to show you Kishi and Kubo are bandwagon jumping bitches who have to steal ideas from other people.
> 
> For the record, Pandaman and Chopper>Bleach and Naruto. So THERE!


Every shounen author is guilty of copying from Toriyama in numerous ways. Luffy's personality is almost identical to Goku's. Hell, Oda admits he way heavily influenced by DB.



Dragon said:


> Dont judge a manga off the animation. Like I did. After I gave OP a chance, it became my alltime fav anime. Give it a chance and stop being a stubborn idiot. I know you are scared that something may be better than your precious Naruto or Bleach, but give it a chance and you wont regret it. OP is the greatest shonen of alltime.


I'm not judging it solely be art style alone but I must say some character design do make me wince. Also stop calling me an idiot and treating me like all I read is Bleach and Naruto when that is completely false. I've given OP more than just a chance. I've read over 100 chapters for Christ's sake. When does it become good? That's all I'm wondering.


----------



## MuNaZ (Jun 26, 2008)

so you skipped Little Garden and Drum Island? GET BACK IMMEDIATELY...


----------



## Broleta (Jun 26, 2008)

Basilikos said:


> I skipped to chapter 150


Disgusting. You skipped Chopper's backstory and Usopp's manly adventures


----------



## mister_napolean (Jun 26, 2008)

so..i havent read one peice yet but whats the plot so far?
ive read bleach and naruto there decent
gantz is awesome
and berserk is great


----------



## Broleta (Jun 26, 2008)

mister_napolean said:


> so..i havent read one peice yet but whats the plot so far?
> ive read bleach and naruto there decent
> gantz is awesome
> and berserk is great



One Piece is comprised of many mini stories that could easily be a standalone series of their own. The main plot is concerned with the heroes finding the ultimate treasure and Luffy becoming Pirate King.


----------



## mister_napolean (Jun 26, 2008)

how would you compare gantz/berserk to one peice?
its the same if you compare bleach/naruto to one peice right?


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 26, 2008)

mister_napolean said:


> how would you compare gantz/berserk to one peice?
> its the same if you compare bleach/naruto to one peice right?



For me

Berserk >> One Piece >>Bleach/naruto >> Gantz

I'm not a fan of Gantz


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 26, 2008)

Basilikos said:


> I have been reading it, I've read up to chapter 114 and it has yet to be even considered decent in my book. I heard it becomes awesome at Alabasta arc so I skipped to chapter 150 and I am reading that now. Oh and I'm not a OP hater, I simply don't understand what people see in this manga.
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're trying to quote me when I have never said anything like that.
> ...



Well I do not respect your opinion. In fact, your opinion sucks. What do you see in naruto/bleach that you do not see in OP? Bleach is a rip off of Yu Yu hakusho and really none of the main characters are interesting in Bleach.

And you dont like the character design, because you are to main stream. You like that spikey hair, with a cool sword! type look. You remind me of those people who love Soulja boy and claim Nas sucks.

Stick with your mainstream buddy. I used to be like that. I used to think DBZ was the greatest anime of alltime and I refused to try anything else. I thought it was so cool. And I would judge animation and I would even judge strength, like if the characters werent as strong as the DBZ characters, I wouldnt like it. Because I thought being powerful was cool. I was a newb


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 26, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Lotsa E-feelings and E-pride being hurt in this thread....
> 
> Let's just all calm down and agree that Sasuke sucks.



And that Hitsugaya is a weak piece of shit


----------



## mister_napolean (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Well I do not respect your opinion. In fact, your opinion sucks. What do you see in naruto/bleach that you do not see in OP? Bleach is a rip off of Yu Yu hakusho and really none of the main characters are interesting in Bleach.
> 
> And you dont like the character design, because you are to main stream. You like that spikey hair, with a cool sword! type look. You remind me of those people who love Soulja boy and bash Nas.



ahhahaha soulja boy fuck him its about lil wayne
haha
haha


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Well I do not respect your opinion. In fact, your opinion sucks. What do you see in naruto/bleach that you do not see in OP? Bleach is a rip off of Yu Yu hakusho and really none of the main characters are interesting in Bleach.
> 
> And you dont like the character design, because you are to main stream. You like that spikey hair, with a cool sword! type look. You remind me of those people who love Soulja boy and bash Nas.



stop it already


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Well I do not respect your opinion. In fact, your opinion sucks. What do you see in naruto/bleach that you do not see in OP? Bleach is a rip off of Yu Yu hakusho and really none of the main characters are interesting in Bleach.
> 
> And you dont like the character design, because you are to main stream. You like that spikey hair, with a cool sword! type look. You remind me of those people who love Soulja boy and bash Nas.
> 
> Stick with your mainstream buddy. I used to be like that. I used to think DBZ was the greatest anime of alltime and I refused to try anything else. I thought it was so cool. And I would judge animation and I would even judge strength, like if the characters werent as strong as the DBZ characters, I wouldnt like it. Because I thought being powerful was cool. I was a newb


Ohohohooh. OHOHOHOHOHOH. *OHOHOHOHOHHO!*


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 26, 2008)

lol you naruto fans are funny. Im might go to the konhana library just to chat with you guys. Like dont get me wrong, Naruto is interesting. Like I wanna know how it ends for sure. I just cant watch it. To boring for me.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 26, 2008)

mister_napolean said:


> so..i havent read one peice yet but whats the plot so far?
> ive read bleach and naruto there decent
> gantz is awesome
> and berserk is great



Gantz is a piece of crap, especially since Kurono's gone. My god what a shit fest.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Gantz is a piece of crap, especially since Kurono's gone. My god what a shit fest.



with the way people are shit talking gantz it kinda puts me off wanting to read it. I mean if it sucks that much then what's the point?


----------



## Zorokiller (Jun 26, 2008)

Gantz became shit after Kurono owned together with Izumi both with those gantz swords.
I believe I lost interest after that because that was the point the vampires where introduced....and ofcourse kurono dying.


----------



## MuNaZ (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> with the way people are shit talking gantz it kinda puts me off wanting to read it. I mean if it sucks that much then what's the point?



it was nice... (at least for me) but with Kurono's death... for fuck sake... buch of crap.. and some people didn't like the vampires...

Dragon... Isn't One Piece more popular than lol.naruto & Bleach on Japan? doesn't that make One Piece more mainstream... get better arguments....


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 26, 2008)

Most people on here are from everywhere except Japan, where OP isnt popular. Plus, Japan and the rest of the anime world have different tastes. Japanese do not judge shows by art, but look at every little thing that makes it great. Americans are ignorant and if they see a guy with spikey hair and a cool sword, they will be latched on to the Anime forever. I used to be that way and all my friends are that way.

Next time think, before making yourself look foolish.

Now be GONE! I the Dragon have more important issues to deal with, than you peasant.


----------



## MuNaZ (Jun 26, 2008)

you still think that's a good argument... oh well... good to see you went back to your annoying old ways.... looking forward to see you banned again


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 26, 2008)

Likewise peasant....likewise.


----------



## Shuntensatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> with the way people are shit talking gantz it kinda puts me off wanting to read it. I mean if it sucks that much then what's the point?



It doesn't suck that bad, Phase one is certainly worth reading.  Phase two is pretty gay, but recently it has stepped it up a bit.


----------



## cozapple (Jun 26, 2008)

i prefer naruto, my opinion.


----------



## Dance (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> lol you naruto fans are funny. Im might go to the konhana library just to chat with you guys. Like dont get me wrong, Naruto is interesting. Like I wanna know how it ends for sure. I just cant watch it. To boring for me.



Man, Naruto is my least favorite of the three.

I acually like OP the best.

but I still think you're being dumb


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

People who need to stop posting here:

-atom
-Aethos
-Dragon


----------



## Stan Lee (Jun 26, 2008)

Pilot said:


> Haha, once I was messing with my bookshelf and actually laughed aloud
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Aethos said:


> Why the fuck do you insult people on the internet? It's not like that makes you a better person or anything.


........ha


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> lol you naruto fans are funny. Im might go to the konhana library just to chat with you guys. Like dont get me wrong, Naruto is interesting. Like I wanna know how it ends for sure. I just cant watch it. To boring for me.


Where did you get that I was a One Piece fan from that post? More of your ignorance?




> People who need to stop posting here:
> 
> -atom


Haha, no.


----------



## Basilikos (Jun 26, 2008)

Broleta said:


> Disgusting. You skipped Chopper's backstory and Usopp's manly adventures


If you like Usopp, that's fine but personally, I found him to be quite annoying.



Dragon said:


> Well I do not respect your opinion. In fact, your opinion sucks. What do you see in naruto/bleach that you do not see in OP?


Stop crying just because my opinion on OP differs from yours. I find the character designs to be better for Naruto and Bleach. They also have a more serious tone which is something I prefer.



Dragon said:


> Bleach is a rip off of Yu Yu hakusho and really none of the main characters are interesting in Bleach.


I agree. Despite this I still find Bleach to be far more readable than OP.



Dragon said:


> And you dont like the character design, because you are to main stream. You like that spikey hair, with a cool sword! type look.


And if I do like that look why do you complain about it so much?



Dragon said:


> You remind me of those people who love Soulja boy and claim Nas sucks.


Don't know what series those are.



Dragon said:


> Stick with your mainstream buddy. I used to be like that.


Stick with you arrogant intolerant attitude, buddy. I used to be just like you.



Dragon said:


> I used to think DBZ was the greatest anime of alltime and I refused to try anything else. I thought it was so cool. And I would judge animation and I would even judge strength, like if the characters werent as strong as the DBZ characters, I wouldnt like it. Because I thought being powerful was cool. I was a newb


You seem to think I am the same as you once were which is completely false. One Piece simply is not my cup of tea. You are incapable of accepting that someone may have an opinion that differs from your own.

You also seem to be under the ridiculous assumption that Naruto/Bleach are my favorite mangas which is dead wrong. If anyone is a "newb" to anime/manga it is you for your immaturity and intolerance towards those who do not care for One Piece.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 26, 2008)

It seems like Aethos saw how terrible Naruto fans could be with Seiko and his ilk and in his pathetic obssession to see One Piece always triumph decided that he had to prove OP fans could be as bad

Thank you for that telling demonstration Aethos

edit Add Dragon too


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 26, 2008)

Dude, seriously just ignore Dragon. You won't get anywhere.


----------



## MdB (Jun 26, 2008)

Did someone just compare ''lol Gantz'' with Berserk? What kind of ignorant shit is that?


----------



## HugeGuy (Jun 26, 2008)

p-lou said:


> When did this thread ever have a point?  The only reason OP vs Naruto vs Bleach threads don't get closed is because a new one would pop up five minuets later.



Hmm, then maybe we should just stickied this thread instead? You know, it could work actually.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 26, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Shittiest Captain in the Gotei 13 easily.
> 
> He got fucked up by a Fraccion Arrancar.



Actually he won with ease once the limit was lifted.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Aldric said:


> It seems like Aethos saw how terrible Naruto fans could be with Seiko and his ilk and in his pathetic obssession to see One Piece always triumph decided that he had to prove OP fans could be as bad
> 
> Thank you for that telling demonstration Aethos
> 
> edit Add Dragon too



Considering you and Zephos were attacking Seiko and his ilk more than me I don't think I needed to help you prove that One Piece fans are just as bad, but if it's any consolation you're welcome Aldrich. I'm glad we could team up and show the Naruto fans just how retarded a fanbase we are compared to them.



Shuntensatsu said:


> It doesn't suck that bad, Phase one is certainly worth reading.  Phase two is pretty gay, but recently it has stepped it up a bit.



I'll give Gantz a shot then at least. I just hope Phase 2 won't make me feel like I'm wasting my time like how it seems most people that read it feels.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Gantz is a pretty good manga. Phase 2 is fine, its the current Alien that is annoying though, mainly because its freaking powerful. I expect a Gantz Suit upgrade if they expect to beat anything above Nuri.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

BINGO

I just had three horrible posters in a row above me.


----------



## MdB (Jun 26, 2008)

Gantz is the Seinen version of Bleach, only with more useless fights. There is nothing good about it.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 26, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Actually he won with ease once the limit was lifted.



Ghahahaha, no he did not. The only reason he won was because that moment gave him the element of surprise, he even said so himself. 

Shows even further what a pathetic, little weaksauce character he is


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Zephos said:


> BINGO
> 
> I just had three horrible posters in a row above me.


BINGO

I just had three horrible posters in a row above me.


----------



## MdB (Jun 26, 2008)

atom said:


> BINGO
> 
> I just had three horrible posters in a row above me.



Butthurt

10 char limit


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

MdB said:


> Butthurt
> 
> 10 char limit


Emperor Wank.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 26, 2008)

Shit zephos and aldirc are here. Obviously anything they say goes, because they are superior to everyone. Shit, I need to stop posting here cause Zephos said so! BYE guys! I fear da nerd rage!


----------



## Matariki (Jun 26, 2008)

Although I got to say Captain Kidd is awesome.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Shit zephos and aldirc are here. Obviously anything they say goes, because they are superior to everyone. Shit, I need to stop posting here cause Zephos said so! BYE guys! I fear da nerd rage!


Are you serious?


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Shit zephos and aldirc are here. Obviously anything they say goes, because they are superior to everyone. Shit, I need to stop posting here cause Zephos said so! BYE guys! I fear da nerd rage!



Gonna go wank it to rape articles?
Have fun bro.


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 26, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Although I got to say Captain Kidd is awesome.



This does not comply with your usual tastes.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Oh of course they're serious.

Heck I'm surprised Aldrich and Zephos could get away from circle jerking to Gutts, Dio, and Dark Schnider long enough to post in this thread.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 26, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Actually he won with ease once the limit was lifted.



He only won because the limit lift gave him the element of surprise. He would have been smoked otherwise. The only one who won fair and square was Ikkaku

Hitsugaya is weaker than a third seat officer. Canon


----------



## Nuzzie (Jun 26, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> He only won because the limit lift gave him the element of surprise. He would have been smoked otherwise. The only one who won fair and square was Ikkaku
> 
> Hitsugaya is weaker than a third seat officer. Canon



I prefer to think of it as Ikkaku is stronger than a captain


----------



## p-lou (Jun 26, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> He only won because the limit lift gave him the element of surprise. He would have been smoked otherwise. The only one who won fair and square was Ikkaku
> 
> Hitsugaya is weaker than a third seat officer. Canon



That's because Ikkaku is fucking awesome.  One of the few Bleach characters that I really like.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

I personally never understood the Hitsugaya hate. Then again I seem to have a neutral opinion towards all Bleach characters.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 26, 2008)

p-lou said:


> That's because Ikkaku is fucking awesome.  One of the few Bleach characters that I really like.



Agreed.

The only others that I can really say that I like right now are Isshin, Stark, Ryuuken, Yamamoto, Mayuri, and Urahara. The rest are either crap or have yet to do anything for me to judge


----------



## Aldric (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Shit zephos and aldirc are here. Obviously anything they say goes, because they are superior to everyone. Shit, I need to stop posting here cause Zephos said so! BYE guys! I fear da nerd rage!





Seiko said:


> Although I got to say Captain Kidd is awesome.





Aethos said:


> Oh of course they're serious.
> 
> Heck I'm surprised Aldrich and Zephos could get away from circle jerking to Gutts, Dio, and Dark Schnider long enough to post in this thread.



URGH                .


----------



## p-lou (Jun 26, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The only others that I can really say that I like right now are Isshin, Stark, Ryuuken, Yamamoto, Mayuri, and Urahara. The rest are either crap or have yet to do anything for me to judge



I can agree with that list, except for Stark.  Being in about 15 panels isn't enough for me to judge.  But I'd also add Dordonii, that guy was awesome.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 26, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> He only won because the limit lift gave him the element of surprise.



Hey i already said that, no need to waste time on the same answer twice to someone like Seiko


----------



## Matariki (Jun 26, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> The only others that I can really say that I like right now are Isshin, Stark, Ryuuken, Yamamoto, Mayuri, and Urahara. The rest are either crap or have yet to do anything for me to judge



How about Byakuya?


----------



## p-lou (Jun 26, 2008)

Byakuya is a terrible character.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 26, 2008)

What do you like in Captain Kidd Seiko (I'll probably regret asking that)


----------



## MdB (Jun 26, 2008)

Seiko said:


> How about Byakuya?





Seiko said:


> How about Byakuya?





Seiko said:


> How about Byakuya?



Seriously....


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 26, 2008)

Seiko said:


> How about Byakuya?



He's number 3 on my most hated Bleach character list, behind only Ulquiorra and Hitsugaya


----------



## MdB (Jun 26, 2008)

Does it like Ulquiorra?


----------



## Byakuya (Jun 26, 2008)

Hitsugaya, Byakuya and Ulquiorra are wonderful characters.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 26, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The only others that I can really say that I like right now are Isshin, Stark, Ryuuken, Yamamoto, Mayuri, and Urahara. The rest are either crap or have yet to do anything for me to judge



Same for me, allthough i still like Kenpachi despite 2hands, Shunsui is likeable aswell imo even with his limited paneltime. Cant forget Kensei either which i liked in the flashback-arc.

Buyakua.. I fairly disliked him back in SS already. Then one can only imagine what i think of him now after the horrible Zomarifight.



~L~ said:


> Hitsugaya, Byakuya and Ulquiorra are wonderful characters.



No, just no


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 26, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Same for me, allthough i still like Kenpachi despite 2hands, Shunsui is likeable aswell imo even with his limited paneltime. Cant forget Kensei either which i liked in the flashback-arc.


Damn, I forgot about Shunsui



> Buyakua.. I fairly disliked him back in SS already. Then one can only imagine what i think of him now after the horrible Zomarifight.


Agreed


----------



## Dance (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Shit zephos and aldirc are here. Obviously anything they say goes, because they are superior to everyone. Shit, I need to stop posting here cause Zephos said so! BYE guys! I fear da nerd rage!



You are terrible.

just look at all the posts you made in this thread.

None of them even came close to not being a abomination.



Aethos said:


> Oh of course they're serious.
> 
> Heck I'm surprised Aldrich and Zephos could get away from circle jerking to Gutts, Dio, and Dark Schnider long enough to post in this thread.



I promise you all those characters you mentioned are a million times better then anyone on CODE FUCKING GEASS.



Aethos said:


> I personally never understood the Hitsugaya hate. Then again I seem to have a neutral opinion towards all Bleach characters.



God damn

now you're siding with Seiko

just, just look at this image



If that alone does not fill you with rage there is something deeply wrong with you.


----------



## AndrewGreen (Jun 26, 2008)

~L~ said:


> Hitsugaya, Byakuya and Ulquiorra are wonderful characters.



you just masturbated to this post didn't you

admit it


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 26, 2008)

~L~ said:


> Hitsugaya, Byakuya and Ulquiorra are wonderful characters.



Are you some kind of robot?

Because I'm seriously starting to wonder here


----------



## MdB (Jun 26, 2008)

He's Byakuya in his own little world. DELUSIONS 'R FUN AMIRIGHT?


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 26, 2008)

Dance said:


> God damn
> 
> now you're siding with Seiko
> 
> ...



Did Kubo Tite draw that?


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 26, 2008)

MdB said:


> He's Byakuya in his own little world. DELUSIONS 'R FUN AMIRIGHT?



He's under Aizen's ABSOLUTE HYPNOSIS


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Kal-El said:


> ........ha



what

And Dragon, please just leave the thread



p-lou said:


> Byakuya is a terrible character.





p-lou said:


> Byakuya is a terrible character.





p-lou said:


> Byakuya is a terrible character.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 26, 2008)

Lol, Hitsugaya looks pmiping in this pic......totally not accurate.


----------



## Dio Brando (Jun 26, 2008)

~L~ said:


> Hitsugaya, Byakuya and Ulquiorra are wonderful characters.



None of these *have* character

It's all ellipsis and cheesy one-liners


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Dance said:


> I promise you all those characters you mentioned are a million times better then anyone on CODE FUCKING GEASS.



So what if they are? 





Dance said:


> God damn
> 
> now you're siding with Seiko
> 
> ...



Who said I'm siding with Seiko? I didn't say I was a Hitsugaya fanboy. I just don't hate him with a passion that's all. I mean at least there's reason to hate Sasuke. I've never found a reason to hate Hitsugaya.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Who said I'm siding with Seiko? I didn't say I was a Hitsugaya fanboy. I just don't hate him with a passion that's all. I mean at least there's reason to hate Sasuke. I've never found a reason to hate Hitsugaya.



Can you think of a reason to like him?

I mean, any at all?


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Pilot said:


> Can you think of a reason to like him?
> 
> I mean, any at all?



No but that's why I said I have a neutral opinion about him. I mean if I don't have a reason to like him or to hate him. What else is left?


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos, lets get the fuck out of here. Zephos and Aldric dont like us and they want us out. I am fearing for your life and my own. Lets get out...please


----------



## LivingInjustice (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Aethos, lets get the fuck out of here. Zephos and Aldric dont like us and they want us out. I am fearing for your life and my own. Lets get out...please



hahaha.



Aethos is a masochist, he's not leaving this thread as long as there is abuse to be heaped upon him.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 26, 2008)

Here's what I think are the pros and cons of the 3 series.

*Naruto*

Pros: fights are a bit more complex than Bleach/OP fights
Cons: too much angst, bad character development and some terrible characters

*One Piece*

Pros: great balance between serious and silly, good characters and character development
Cons: Fights are predictable

*Bleach* 

Pros: guys with cool swords fight each other (I'm serious about this)
Cons: just about everything else


----------



## Tash (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Aethos, lets get the fuck out of here. Zephos and Aldric dont like us and they want us out. I am fearing for your life and my own. Lets get out...please



Did this sound less gay in your mind, or did it sound just as gay but you didn't care?


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Aethos, lets get the fuck out of here. Zephos and Aldric dont like us and they want us out. I am fearing for your life and my own. Lets get out...please



Aethos has been invited to join the Phenom brigade?
Will he choose?

In Naruto: Aethos joins, sucky characters flock together.

In One Piece: Aethos stays here with us, his butt of the crowd position is needed within a crew.

In Bleach: Aethos and Dragon fight for 12 chapters and have gay hair.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jun 26, 2008)

Basilikos said:


> Don't know what series those are.



:rofl :rofl :rofl

@ Souljah Boy and Nas being "series'"


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Aethos, lets get the fuck out of here. Zephos and Aldric dont like us and they want us out. I am fearing for your life and my own. Lets get out...please



Yes

YES

It has nothing to do with you being a fantard and screeching at people whose opinions differ from yours

It's the fact that Aldrich and Zephos have a personal vendetta against you


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Here's what I think are the pros and cons of the 3 series.
> 
> *Naruto*
> 
> ...


Naruto fights are more complex then One Piece fights? Sorry, but I have to disagree with that.


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 26, 2008)

Dragon said:


> Aethos, lets get the fuck out of here. Zephos and Aldric dont like us and they want us out. I am fearing for your life and my own. Lets get out...please


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

king of these forums so years


----------



## Xell (Jun 26, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Here's what I think are the pros and cons of the 3 series.
> 
> *Naruto*
> 
> ...



I disagree.

Gear 2 is much more complex than anything in Naruto.

And I don't see how the fights are any more predictable than Naruto's and Bleach's.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Aethos has been invited to join the Phenom brigade?
> Will he choose?
> 
> In Naruto: Aethos joins, sucky characters flock together.
> ...



Oh fuck I had no idea I was the Usopp of your crew Zephos. You guys do care. I never should have doubted you. 



LivingInjustice said:


> hahaha.
> 
> 
> 
> Aethos is a masochist, he's not leaving this thread as long as there is abuse to be heaped upon him.



It's quite easy to absorb such low tier abuse after a while. So it really has nothing to do with being a masochist.


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 26, 2008)

OMG. I laughed till I cried. 

"You fuckin little peasant"

Are you serious man!

Dragon did you use to go by Devil Yusuke X or something like that.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 26, 2008)

.

.

.

.

.

.

.


Xell said:


> I disagree.
> 
> *Gear 2 is much more complex than anything in Naruto.*
> 
> And I don't see how the fights are any more predictable than Naruto's and Bleach's.



This wanking is just too much...how is a simple power/speed boost more complex than Naruto, that is based around tactics? (please, don't say, "lol, bunshin feint")


----------



## Dance (Jun 26, 2008)

man, what the fuck was I thinking


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

Wtf is going on in this thread?

And Byakuya is shit, he's a shitty version of Kurama.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Oh fuck I had no idea I was the Usopp of your crew Zephos. You guys do care. I never should have doubted you.
> 
> 
> 
> It's quite easy to absorb such low tier abuse after a while. So it really has nothing to do with being a masochist.



Aethos, remember those days in the Naruto thread? Chillin' with Carter and the gang? Just havin' a laugh at how much Naruto sucks? How long we would go off topic? Make fun of Pipboy? Rild? Phenom and co.?

Remmeber that?


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Dance said:


> man, what the fuck was I thinking



you're in for it now


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Aethos, remember those days in the Naruto thread? Chillin' with Carter and the gang? Just havin' a laugh at how much Naruto sucks? How long we would go off topic? Make fun of Pipboy? Rild? Phenom and co.?
> 
> Remmeber that?



Yeah I do. Those days were fun. I miss those days.

So why the fuck would I join the Phenom Brigade?


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 26, 2008)

Pilot said:


> Dance said:
> 
> 
> > man, what the fuck was I thinking
> ...



Ya don't mess wit da' Dragon he gonna chop yo head off yo


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

LMAO


----------



## Xell (Jun 26, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> ...



What tactics are we talking about in Naruto. Seems like the same shit over and over to me. Yeah, the Shadow Shuriken thing used on Zabuza was pretty awesome, but that's where it all goes down hill.

Describe some tactics which I've forgotten and I'll gladly take back what I said, but until then, a power up is better.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 26, 2008)

Xell said:


> What tactics are we talking about in Naruto. Seems like the same shit over and over to me. Yeah, the Shadow Shuriken thing used on Zabuza was pretty awesome, but that's where it all goes down hill.
> 
> Describe some tactics which I've forgotten and I'll gladly take back what I said, but until then, a power up is better.



Sasuke using Amterasu to prepare Kirin was a tactic. Saying a simple speed (and strength) powerup is strategically better than *anything* in Naruto.....


----------



## Matariki (Jun 26, 2008)

Xell said:


> What tactics are we talking about in Naruto. Seems like the same shit over and over to me. Yeah, the Shadow Shuriken thing used on Zabuza was pretty awesome, but that's where it all goes down hill.
> 
> Describe some tactics which I've forgotten and I'll gladly take back what I said, but until then, a power up is better.



Sasuke vs Deidara?


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Well... Naruto farted... That's a "tactic"


----------



## Xell (Jun 26, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Sasuke vs Deidara?



Didn't check that fight.

All I know is that Kishimoto decided to pull this "ELECTRICITY IS BETTER THAN EARTH" shit out of his ass.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 26, 2008)

armorknight said:


> *Naruto*
> 
> Pros: fights are a bit more complex than Bleach/OP fights


 Please. Naruto's fights have had zero complexity since the Chuunin Exams/Konoha Invasion. Since then it's been either repetitive Kage Bunshin/Rasengan tricks, Deus ex Machina, or Sharingan cumfest



> Cons: too much angst, bad character development and some terrible characters


 Some? Besides Kisame and Gai, there is not one good character left. And don't forget shitty art



> *One Piece*
> 
> Pros: great balance between serious and silly, good characters and character development


Agreed



> Cons: Fights are predictable


And Naruto and Bleach's aren't? Just because OP doesn't have out-the-ass powerups from nowhere, doesn't mean its fights are predictable



> *Bleach*
> 
> Pros: guys with cool swords fight each other (I'm serious about this)


Yes



> Cons: just about everything else


Not everything. There are a few great characters in the sea of cliches, it can be pretty interesting when Kubo isn't being a lazy copypasta bastard, and it can be good at humor when it's not taking itself too seriously. But all in all, it's just a sad example of wasted potential


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

Lol tactics? All three of them have none, read HxH instead.


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 26, 2008)

PlaygroundPredator said:


> Ya don't mess wit da' Dragon he gonna chop yo head off yo



Or hell suck you off apparently.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

guys you could admit One Piece isn't perfect


----------



## LivingInjustice (Jun 26, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Lol tactics? All three of them have none, read HxH instead.



The fights in HxH are second to none in the world of shounen.  Jojo comes close though.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 26, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Lol tactics? All three of them have none, read HxH instead.



HxH has good tactics, but JJBA's tactics are a bit better


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

> Some? Besides Kisame and Gai, there is not one good character left. And don't forget shitty art



Kakashi is still good.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

The Communist Manifesto said:


> Or hell suck you off apparently.


Ah, this thread is so funny. *leaves*


----------



## LivingInjustice (Jun 26, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> HxH has good tactics, but JJBA's tactics are a bit better



Only reasons I think Jojo loses the number one spot is because sometimes Araki just pulls some weird shit out of his ass (not that often though. mostly part 4) during a fight like with GRE or he'll forget things his characters can do (Like JPP being able to shed SC's armor to get godlike speed).


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 26, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> Kakashi is still good.



He's just not what he used to be for me


----------



## Xell (Jun 26, 2008)

Pilot said:


> guys you could admit One Piece isn't perfect



Yeah, it isn't perfect. In fact it isn't even my favorite manga and I hardly read it anymore.

But too many people talk about how One Piece is shit and how it's kiddy when they have not even read it. Sasuke and that Hitsugaya ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) are great examples of doing that.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah Kishi's kinda fucked him up, he's hardly had anything to do in part 2. 



> HxH has good tactics, but JJBA's tactics are a bit better



I really should get back to reading JJBA.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 26, 2008)

LivingInjustice said:


> Only reasons I think Jojo loses the number one spot is because sometimes Araki just pulls some weird shit out of his ass (not that often though. mostly part 4) during a fight like with GRE


 He overpowered King Crimson and really had no choice other than to create Gold Experience Requiem. Araki wasn't able to write the main villain out like he could with Fugo when he became too cheap.



> or he'll forget things his characters can do (Like JPP being able to shed SC's armor to get godlike speed).


Don't forget that Polnareff is a lot weaker in Part 5. His Stand may have lost its speed when Polnareff got crippled and may not have enough benefit to make up for the lowered defense


----------



## Xell (Jun 26, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> Sasuke using Amterasu to prepare Kirin was a tactic. Saying a simple speed (and strength) powerup is strategically better than *anything* in Naruto.....



Doesn't sound that impressive. 

I didn't mean it like that either. While it's completely unrealistic, Luffy gains speed by speeding the blood flow in his body with air. Because his organs are made of rubber, they don't get suffocated. etc. etc.

I think that is a better explanation than most of the stuff in Naruto. 'Sasuke using Amaterasu to prepare Kirin' doesn't sound like much of an amazing tactic at all.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> He overpowered King Crimson and really had no choice other than to create Gold Experience Requiem. Araki wasn't able to write the main villain out like he could with Fugo when he became too cheap.
> 
> Don't forget that Polnareff is a lot weaker in Part 5. His Stand may have lost its speed when Polnareff got crippled and may not have enough benefit to make up for the lowered defense



*Spoiler*: __ 



Requiem stomps Silver Chariot in every way tho


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Pilot said:


> guys you could admit One Piece isn't perfect



I never thought One Piece was perfect. Heck I've got a whole list of series I like just as much as One Piece. Saying One Piece is better than Naruto and Bleach isn't exactly saying it's a literary masterpiece. I doubt anyone would even attempt to say that.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 26, 2008)

Awesome. ----


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah I do. Those days were fun. I miss those days.
> 
> So why the fuck would I join the Phenom Brigade?



Remember how you were laughed out?


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I never thought One Piece was perfect. Heck I've got a whole list of series I like just as much as One Piece. Saying One Piece is better than Naruto and Bleach isn't exactly saying it's a literary masterpiece. I doubt anyone would even attempt to say that.



i meant that every little complaint about OP is replied to with around four posts desperately trying to debunk it


----------



## Tash (Jun 26, 2008)

That's a decision I could never make. JJBA is one of those few manga that I've actually had to go back and reread to follow some of the tactics they use in fights, and the plans tend to be more elaborate (Carrs vs Joseph) but the entire combat system of HxH revolves around those tactics, from learning nen, to using it. Even without nen the plans some characters think up and pull off are amazing.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 26, 2008)

!!!!
Op is a literary masterpiece in the same way a pile of shit smells good in a room filled with decaying corpses and fresh flowers. Naruto and Bleach being the rancid decaying corpses that everyone keeps trying to hide the smell of due to necrophelia fetishes, and the literary masterpiece being the flowers. 

Naruto is utter shit at this point. Kishimoto fucked up his series beyond belief. 
Bleach is boring tripe with shitty fights in manga, that look better animated. There also isn't any kind of coherent plot, and more holes then a car driven by 50 cent in a neighboured of westcoast kids with someting to prove.

Devilyuske is still good for a laugh I see.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

> Naruto is utter shit at this point. Kishimoto fucked up his series beyond belief.



He really has, he's an awful writer and pissed on the manga the second he showed us that bloodline>hardwork.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

> Remember how you were laughed out?



Meh Zephos I was never bothered by the fact that you guys hate me. It's the fact that you hate me for no real reason is the only reason it bugs me. I mean if there was a real reason behind it. I probably wouldn't be bothered by it at all. The thing is Zephos I've seen e-bullies like you and Aldrich before and the difference between them and you two is that I know you two are smarter than the average e-bully, and I kind of expected you guys to at least have some kind of reason behind your actions... or at least that's what I thought.

I guess I was wrong about you and Aldrich. In the past I might have believed that you guys did it because there was something wrong with me, but I'm starting to realize that you two really are no different from other e-bullies on the internet. In that case there's no more reason for me to care about how you see me.

I guess my expectations of you two were just a little too high.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Meh Zephos I was never bothered by the fact that you guys hate me. It's the fact that you hate me for no real reason is the only reason it bugs me. I mean if there was a real reason behind it. I probably wouldn't be bothered by it at all. The thing is Zephos I've seen e-bullies like you and Aldrich before and the difference between them and you two is that I know you two are smarter than the average e-bully, and I kind of expected you guys to at least have some kind of reason behind your actions... or at least that's what I thought.
> 
> I guess I was wrong about you and Aldrich. In the past I might have believed that you guys did it because there was something wrong with me, but I'm starting to realize that you two really are no different from other e-bullies on the internet. In that case there's no more reason for me to care about how you see me.
> 
> I guess my expectations of you two were just a little too high.




stop being offtopic


----------



## p-lou (Jun 26, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Devilyuske is still good for a laugh I see.



In before Raizen's stomach shakes the universe.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 26, 2008)

OMG, I just wanna kill if I see such fail.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

> stop being offtopic



Why? It's true this thread doesn't really serve a purpose anymore. It doesn't really matter what we say now.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> OMG, I just wanna kill if I see such fail.


Are you referring to me posting that or the girl failing at baseball?


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 26, 2008)

Maraih Carey classic is like one of the 3rd generation diva's of rb, with aretha franklin and others being in the first and second wave. LEAVE HER ALONE.:amazed


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Meh Zephos I was never bothered by the fact that you guys hate me. It's the fact that you hate me for no real reason is the only reason it bugs me. I mean if there was a real reason behind it. I probably wouldn't be bothered by it at all. The thing is Zephos I've seen e-bullies like you and Aldrich before and the difference between them and you two is that I know you two are smarter than the average e-bully, and I kind of expected you guys to at least have some kind of reason behind your actions... or at least that's what I thought.
> 
> I guess I was wrong about you and Aldrich. In the past I might have believed that you guys did it because there was something wrong with me, but I'm starting to realize that you two really are no different from other e-bullies on the internet. In that case there's no more reason for me to care about how you see me.
> 
> I guess my expectations of you two were just a little too high.



You wrote this post right?


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 26, 2008)

Can someone tell me what an e-bully does ? I'm not in tune with this generation of internezt serious buuisness....


----------



## Kaenboshi (Jun 26, 2008)

^
I have no idea what any of this with anything at this point.

Now I think I'll leave this thread before getting involved...


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Can someone tell me what an e-bully does ? I'm not in tune with this generation of internezt serious buuisness....


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 26, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Can someone tell me what an e-bully does ? I'm not in tune with this generation of internezt serious buuisness....



They knock your e-ice cream out of your hand, step on your e-sand castle, and kiss your e-girlfriend.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

> You wrote this post right?



Yes... Yes I did Zephos.

Look I thought you and Aldrich were just trying to make me tougher or you guys were trying to help me improve myself. I honestly had some respect for you both. I mean you were the kind of guys where I could say that "sure they act like douches towards people but at least they know what they're talking about."

I guess that's the only reason I really gave a shit about what you two did and said.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

> Can someone tell me what an e-bully does ?



A desperate retard that bullies people online so he can feel good about himself. Zephos being a case if you read his last few posts.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 26, 2008)

Thx for the explanations of E-bully. 

On topic...

Out of these three which is the better character in terms of 

char dev
design
relevance to story
creative abilities
gar
ability to garnish anti-fanboys

Kisame
Brook
Zaraki

....


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

Kenpachi is a joke, as for Brooke, don't really like him, sad back story tho. Gai by default.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Thx for the explanations of E-bully.
> 
> On topic...
> 
> ...


Kenpachi IMO. Brook is sorta annoying right now. Gai is just an idiot. Though he is pretty powerful (For his own verse anyway) in hand to hand.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Kisame
> Brook
> Zaraki
> 
> ....



Franky


and dude how often do you edit your posts

i don't like getting surprises when I hit the quote button


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Brooke hasn't really been in the story long enough to give a proper opinion about him... I'd say Kenpachi.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yes... Yes I did Zephos.
> 
> Look I thought you and Aldrich were just trying to make me tougher or you guys were trying to help me improve myself. I honestly had some respect for you both. I mean you were the kind of guys where I could say that "sure they act like douches towards people but at least they know what they're talking about."
> 
> I guess that's the only reason I really gave a shit about what you two did and said.



This^

This is your answer.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> A desperate retard that bullies people online so he can feel good about himself. Zephos being a case if you read his last few posts.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 26, 2008)

Pilot said:


> Franky
> 
> 
> and dude how often do you edit your posts
> ...



I am an edit whore in the first 1-3 minutes of my post. I often change my mind on what I wanted to say. You're the first to notice!


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

> This^
> 
> This is your answer.



Yes it is Zephos. Go ahead post it over at NPC, mock, and laugh at my "serious business." I know that's what you're going to do anyways, and to be honest I just don't care anymore. You two were right to think I was stupid... Because I was stupid for thinking you two were ever worth my time.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

You know that you can just add him to your ignore list, since its pretty clear that you two aren't exactly the best of friends. Why is it that this thread reminds me of a typica drama filled high school day?


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yes it is Zephos. Go ahead post it over at NPC, mock, and laugh at my "serious business." I know that's what you're going to do anyways, and to be honest I just don't care anymore. You two were right to think I was stupid... Because I was stupid for thinking you two were ever worth my time.



Why don't you join NPC?
We give second chances. 
Remember that thing on the Humor Thread where we voted who to ban from the thread?
Lobster. Tommy Swoes, Zeether, and Maikeru?

Maikeru is now a normal happy citezin of the City.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 26, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> I am an edit whore in the first 1-3 minutes of my post. I often change my mind on what I wanted to say. You're the first to notice!



pilot the eagle-eye

haha it was the second time you'd done it in the thread

and guys stop it we're supposed to be talking about how gay hitsugaya is remember


----------



## Aldric (Jun 26, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yes... Yes I did Zephos.
> 
> Look I thought you and Aldrich were just trying to make me tougher or you guys were trying to help me improve myself. I honestly had some respect for you both. I mean you were the kind of guys where I could say that "sure they act like douches towards people but at least they know what they're talking about."
> 
> I guess that's the only reason I really gave a shit about what you two did and said.



You constantly post utterly stupid shit

Like "JJBA is generic" or "remove gore, sex and cussing from seinen manga and they're shonen", and others I forgot

But most of all it's the gall you have when stating such idiotic things, the assurance, as if you had any idea what you were talking about, the true mark of an idiot, that grates me

And of course the fact you spend a lot of time pissing and moaning about people who're tired of your bullshit, lumping them together into imaginary "fanbases" that supposedly have all the flaws in the world, doesn't help

So there you go Aethos, here's why I "hate" you, putting hate between quotation marks because I actually don't hate you at all, I just find you pathetic and an easy target to laugh at

On topic One Piece is good something something Naruto blows


----------



## The Mad Hatter (Jun 26, 2008)

Aldric is a man worthy of praise


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Why don't you join NPC?
> We give second chances.
> Remember that thing on the Humor Thread where we voted who to ban from the thread?
> Lobster. Tommy Swoes, Zeether, and Maikeru?
> ...



I'll think about it, but with the process on how to be accepted into the main forum. I have to question whether or not I'd even make it.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 26, 2008)

This thread was more fun when the Uchiha ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) were trolling.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

> Aldric is a man worthy of praise





I think this thread has gone beyond off topic.


----------



## KLoWn (Jun 26, 2008)




----------



## Aokiji (Jun 26, 2008)

How does one join NPC without getting permed?


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 26, 2008)

Aldric said:


> You constantly post utterly stupid shit
> 
> Like "JJBA is generic" or "remove gore, sex and cussing from seinen manga and they're shonen", and others I forgot



You're right I do say stupid shit sometimes. Even if I don't mean it intentionally I'll admit that it's still stupid.



Aldric said:


> But most of all it's the gall you have when stating such idiotic things, the assurance, as if you had any idea what you were talking about, the true mark of an idiot, that grates me



Then I guess the only way for me to fix that is for me to not talk about something unless I've read it first. After all you're right. I should have my facts straight and know what I'm talking about before saying stuff like that. It's probably why I say stupid shit time and again. I do admit that I am the most uninformed person in the OBD.



Aldric said:


> And of course the fact you spend a lot of time pissing and moaning about people who're tired of your bullshit, lumping them together into imaginary "fanbases" that supposedly have all the flaws in the world, doesn't help



Then I'm sorry for my flaw of generalizing too much, and I'm sorry for my flaw of making baseless assumptions at times just to be an ass towards the other side. I'm sure to you I haven't made much progress but I am trying to fix those things. I know that there are people who are tired of my bullshit and that's why I want to improve myself and become a better debater.



Aldric said:


> So there you go Aethos, here's why I "hate" you, putting hate between quotation marks because I actually don't hate you at all, I just find you pathetic and an easy target to laugh at



If you want to keep thinking I'm pathetic then go ahead and laugh away.

On topic One Piece is a great series. It's not perfect but it'll always be one of my favorites. Perhaps I would start to like Naruto and Bleach more if their quality went up from where it's at right now. In Bleach's case it stays with the quality it's been at since the flashback started.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 26, 2008)




----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 26, 2008)

Soulja Boy is garbage.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 26, 2008)

> Soulja Boy is garbage.



You sir are correct


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 26, 2008)

So...Naruto has become shit in Part II, Bleach is consistently mediocre and One Piece is awesome, I guess...


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> So...Naruto has become shit in Part II, Bleach is consistently mediocre and One Piece is awesome, I guess...


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 26, 2008)

I don't recognize the meme...


----------



## Zephos (Jun 26, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I don't recognize the meme...



There isn't one.



Bijuu sucks at humor.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 26, 2008)

Cut him some slack, he's 12.


----------



## atom (Jun 26, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I don't recognize the meme...





Zephos said:


> There isn't one.
> 
> 
> 
> Bijuu sucks at humor.





Aokiji said:


> Cut him some slack, he's 12.


When did I say there was a meme? Ah, but you had to insult me anyways. Failed attempt though. Try again.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 26, 2008)

atom said:


> When did I say there was a meme? Ah, but you had to insult me anyways. Failed attempt though. Try again.



Why did you quote me, did I insult you?


----------



## atom (Jun 27, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> Why did you quote me, did I insult you?


Eh... have a Charizard instead


----------



## Sylar (Jun 27, 2008)

Guys something terrible has happened! This week's chapter of Naruto was actually not bad. It wasn't great, but it wasn't the utter retarded laughable crap we're used to.


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 27, 2008)

YuGiOh>>>that shit. 

EDIT: Sylar, I know how you're feeling.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 27, 2008)

This week's Naruto is meh.  Nothing to really facepalm to, nothing to lol at, and nothing to really enjoy.


----------



## atom (Jun 27, 2008)

lol @ the "106..... what? 106cm... heheh"


----------



## armorknight (Jun 27, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Guys something terrible has happened! This week's chapter of Naruto was actually not bad. It wasn't great, but it wasn't the utter retarded laughable crap we're used to.



Don't worry, once Sasuke comes back it'll all go downhill again. This chapter still demonstrated what a failure Nauto is tho. Getting a maturity lesson from Shikimaru is like hitting rock-bottom LOL.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 27, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Guys something terrible has happened! This week's chapter of Naruto was actually not bad. It wasn't great, but it wasn't the utter retarded laughable crap we're used to.



I agree it wasn't bad at all. No Uchiha wankfest. No crying angsty Naruto. If Naruto continued on like this I might like the series again.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 27, 2008)

Wait a chapter of Naruto that doesnt suck is suddenly a bad thing?


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 27, 2008)

All the parts in Naruto(part 2) centered around Naruto and his small circle of supporting characters heven't been bad at all, some were boring and dragged out though but not close to the corniness of UchihaParty 07/08


----------



## Sylar (Jun 27, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> All the parts in Naruto(part 2) centered around Naruto and his small circle of supporting characters heven't been bad at all, some were boring and dragged out though but not close to the corniness of UchihaParty 07/08



Plus it had Ibiki.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 27, 2008)

I miss Anko


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 27, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> Wait a chapter of Naruto that doesnt suck is suddenly a bad thing?




We tend to poke fun at them.


----------



## Midus (Jun 27, 2008)

The chapter was decent only because Kishimoto decided to go with the internet proverb, "Boobs are always the correct answer". 

This chapter minus the revelation of Tsunade's bust size equals trash.


----------



## mister_napolean (Jun 27, 2008)

bleach ch. was pretty decent


----------



## MuNaZ (Jun 27, 2008)

naruto chapter... was boring... really didn't naruto go trough some depression already? that looked very familiar....
and what we saw new? some random deciphers... that looked at a picture that we didn't see? wtf?
let's go back to lol.naruto kishi!


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jun 27, 2008)

This week was the worst chapter of Naruto this year. Kishi should put the focus back on Sasuke.

bleach pwned though. Hitsugaya was awesome.pek


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 27, 2008)

Naruto was decent but alot of the dialouge was still boring. Bleach was also decent with Yama ownage and lolStark moments though that was pretty much all that happend.

OP will surely be better as usual judging from the spoilers.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 27, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> This week was the worst chapter of Naruto this year. Kishi should put the focus back on Sasuke.
> 
> bleach pwned though. Hitsugaya was awesome.pek



Shikamaru trying to copy Sasuke-sama = fail


----------



## p-lou (Jun 27, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Shikamaru trying to copy Sasuke-sama = fail



Funny, I didn't notice Shikamaru being an angsty little cum rag.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 27, 2008)

No Uchiha and Naruto chapters become tolerable again, what a surprise

Uchiha are basically the manga's tapeworm

Some horrible blind, spineless creatures living in shit and sucking the awesome out of things they infect


----------



## Tash (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm wondering what's going to be worse, the Sasuke focus that Kishi is apparently wrapping up, or the Sakura focus he says he's aiming for this year.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 27, 2008)

I'd take Sakura focus over the Uchiha centered garbage we got for the past 10 months

Hell, I'd take Hinata focus over that


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 27, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Shikamaru trying to copy Sasuke-sama = fail



You failed the instant you called his gullible ass "sama." Shikamaru got over his grief quickly. Your precious god is siding with a group that wants to use the bijuu to destroy/rule the world. Now tell me, who failed harder?


----------



## Aokiji (Jun 27, 2008)

Aldric said:


> I'd take Sakura focus over the Uchiha centered garbage we got for the past 10 months
> 
> Hell, *I'd take Hinata focus over that*



 Careful Aldric. The only thing that is more shitty that Uchiha tardism are the Hinata fanboys.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 27, 2008)

Stop being off topic Seiko

You still haven't told me why you liked Kidd Seiko

And no don't send me a pm cause I'll delete it straight away Seiko


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 27, 2008)

At least once the Sakura focus gets done, we'll be done with most of the pairing wars


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 27, 2008)

Seiko said:


> This thread proves Sasuke > Shika
> 
> Link removed



That's a Jizz thread. You've lost what little credibility you had. Here's the thing. Shikamaru has ppl in the village to protect. Sasuke's attempting to destroy it, and don't give me the "only the elders" crap. The Konoha ninja will come to his aid. Shikamaru's analytical too, and that's without a plot-raping eye. The vast majority of that evidence is from part 1, when he still had some goddamn sense. Now, he attempts to kill his friends, and Hebi/Falcon(faggotry), have no real meaning to him. They're no Team 7.


----------



## Matariki (Jun 27, 2008)

I like his looks.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 27, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> At least once the Sakura focus gets done, we'll be done with most of the pairing wars



I highly doubt that



Seiko said:


> I like his looks.



What that's all


----------



## Tash (Jun 27, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I like his looks.



That really is incredibly different from your normal taste if this is the reason.


----------



## Aldric (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah

From Sasuke and Hitsugaya to Eustass Kidd

That's quite the stretch


----------



## MdB (Jun 27, 2008)

Let's talk about that other shitty manga....
Link removed
Link removed


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 27, 2008)

Meh just Orihime being Orihime.

Kinda surprised, no KUROSAKI-KUN!! coming from her.


----------



## MdB (Jun 27, 2008)

Shitty dialogue remains shitty.


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 27, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I like his looks.



Same with Sasuke, right? Still haven't addressed why you used a Jizz dupe to prove your point.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 27, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> Meh just Orihime being Orihime.
> 
> Kinda surprised, no KUROSAKI-KUN!! coming from her.



Give it another chapter or two.  It will be there.


----------



## MdB (Jun 27, 2008)

How do you like your GRIMJOW VS ICHIGO REDUX.


----------



## Lord Genome (Jun 27, 2008)

Ulquiorra's release turns his sword into a razor


----------



## Matariki (Jun 27, 2008)

MdB said:


> Let's talk about that other shitty manga....
> this.
> this.



Ulquiorra x Hime. pek


----------



## Basilikos (Jun 27, 2008)

Pilot said:


> i meant that every little complaint about OP is replied to with around four posts desperately trying to debunk it


Yeah, this happens far too often. =/



Lord Genome said:


> I miss Anko


Same. She had so much potential too. 



Seiko said:


> Ulquiorra x Hime. pek



No.


----------



## MdB (Jun 27, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Ulquiorra x Hime. pek


----------



## Yak (Jun 27, 2008)

MdB said:


> Shitty dialogue remains shitty.



Really no different from the nervewrecking friendship and nakama crap you sometimes get in Fairy Tail or One Piece.


----------



## MdB (Jun 27, 2008)

Dammit Yak, you got a point there. 

I just lost all hope when I saw Ichigo storming to Inoue's location.


----------



## Yak (Jun 27, 2008)

MdB said:


> Dammit Yak, you got a point there.
> 
> I just lost all hope when I saw Ichigo storming to Inoue's location.



I don't like to see this battle either because I think it will be pointless. At least at this stage. It just seems unsuitable right now. I don't mind Ulquiorra fighting Ichigo all out but the place and time just feels wrong. And we have just been through two full battles of "Kurosaki-kun". Please, not again. 

I rather want the story to progress and have the more important battles move on, having the Vaizards arrive and intercept possibly and get a good surprise factor in again or something. Then Bleach would remain as decent as the flashback arc was.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 27, 2008)

Yak said:


> I don't like to see this battle either because I think it will be pointless. At least at this stage. It just seems unsuitable right now. I don't mind Ulquiorra fighting Ichigo all out but the place and time just feels wrong. And we have just been through two full battles of "Kurosaki-kun". Please, not again.



That's one of the things I dislike the most about Bleach.  Ichigo's fights are never really important.  Every fight he's been in since SS has had hardly any relevance to the story.  It just seems he's getting thrown into fights for the sake of fighting.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jun 27, 2008)

Seiko said:


> This thread proves Sasuke > Shika
> 
> Link removed



Not even going to read a thread dedicated to that mopstick slut.


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 27, 2008)

Especially one made by Jizz.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 27, 2008)

Yak said:


> I don't like to see this battle either because I think it will be pointless. At least at this stage. It just seems unsuitable right now. I don't mind Ulquiorra fighting Ichigo all out but the place and time just feels wrong. And we have just been through two full battles of "Kurosaki-kun". Please, not again.
> 
> I rather want the story to progress and have the *more important battles *move on, *having the Vaizards arrive and intercept possibly and get a good surprise factor in again or something*. Then Bleach would remain as decent as the flashback arc was.



@bolded 
I highly doubt you'll get that as Aizen and his Espada will stomp everything.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 27, 2008)

Phenom brigade? I always thought Phenom was in the Zepot brigade. The only brigade I reside in, is the RAIZEN brigade. A brigade that cannot be pierced, because nobody can match me on these forums. My logic is deadly and my knowledge is poisonous. 

OP>Bleach>Naruto



End. Of. Thread.


----------



## Zephos (Jun 27, 2008)

Remember when I got that account of yours banned because you were still so incompetent that you had to suck off Yupi's tit even in a dupe? Making it painfully obvious whose dupe it was?

Thats how bad you suck.


----------



## Tash (Jun 27, 2008)

I liked you better when you tried your hand at the Hulk Hogan theme, DevilYusuke.


----------



## Dance (Jun 27, 2008)

oh Marco

you're so wacky


----------



## p-lou (Jun 27, 2008)

p-lou said:


> In before Raizen's stomach shakes the universe.



I win.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 27, 2008)

You know what would make the Naruto series cool?

If the story centered around Team Gai and no one else.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 27, 2008)

Would be better than a Uchihacentered plot, but cool? Hell no.

The only way i could see Naruto being kinda cool again was if the plot involved other villages besides Konoha, and focused more on the characters that is decent.

Sadly all of them are fodder in part 2 except for Zetsu and Kisame.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 27, 2008)

> Ulquiorra x Hime



Man its hard to admit but im a Ulquihime fanboy


----------



## MdB (Jun 27, 2008)

Bleach's shittiest characters falling in love.... How cute.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 27, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Would be better than a Uchihacentered plot, but cool? Hell no.
> 
> The only way i could see Naruto being kinda cool again was if the plot involved other villages besides Konoha, and focused more on the characters that is decent.
> 
> Sadly all of them are fodder in part 2 except for Zetsu and Kisame.



Yeah one of the things I always wondered was why we never got to see Cloud Country and the thunder village.


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 27, 2008)

Problem with Naruto is that Kishi's still trying to solve the problems of part 1, has Naruto done any mission that doesn't involve Akatsuki or Sasuke? It just gets tedious after a while, we need a Zabuza type of arc again.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 27, 2008)

Swajio said:


> I'm wondering what's going to be worse, the Sasuke focus that Kishi is apparently wrapping up, or the Sakura focus he says he's aiming for this year.



Well, this brings up 2 important questions.

1. Is Kishi incapable of developing more than one character at once?

2. Assuming #1 is true, why the hell is Kishi focusing on Sakura instead of Naruto? Seriously, Naruto is in immediate need of character development right now. Besides, Sakura is only good for being Sasuke's b**** anyway.

I'm starting to think that Naruto's only purpose in the story is to serve as Sasuke's foil. Sadly, Sasuke will probably lead the fight against Akatsuki in the end somehow.


----------



## Sylar (Jun 27, 2008)

Holy sh#t, OP rocked this week.

Kid pulls a Tetsuo.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 27, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Well, this brings up 2 important questions.
> 
> 1. Is Kishi incapable of developing more than one character at once?



Yes.



> 2. Assuming #1 is true, why the hell is Kishi focusing on Sakura instead of Naruto? Seriously, Naruto is in immediate need of character development right now. Besides, Sakura is only good for being Sasuke's b**** anyway.



Because Naruto has to wait. 



> I'm starting to think that Naruto's only purpose in the story is to serve as Sasuke's foil. Sadly, Sasuke will probably lead the fight against Akatsuki in the end somehow.



Probably.  Naruto is only around so that Sauske can get redeemed for all the stupid ass shit he's done/about to do.


----------



## atom (Jun 27, 2008)

Holy crap this weeks One Piece was amazing.


Awesomeness. BTW, is it just me or the quality of the scans are getting MUCH better from before?


----------



## p-lou (Jun 27, 2008)

There were some pretty shitty scans during TB.


----------



## atom (Jun 27, 2008)

Jeez.. I don't know who I like more, Law or Kidd.... hmmm.


----------



## Amatsu (Jun 27, 2008)

atom said:


> Holy crap this weeks One Piece was amazing.
> 
> 
> Awesomeness. BTW, is it just me or the quality of the scans are getting MUCH better from before?



Ah One Piece. Getting more epic every chapter.


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 27, 2008)

An all out brawl plus a potential match between Kidd and Kuma? That's a real chapter.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 27, 2008)

Dragon how petty can you be

All I said was that it wasn't perfect

which

is true


----------



## LivingInjustice (Jun 28, 2008)

Signing with death itself!!!


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 28, 2008)

I noticed that all the posters here named after actual characters act like they were the character, its kinda creepy.

And sad.


----------



## CaptainCarnoTaurus (Jun 28, 2008)

One Piece was pretty good this week.

Beach could have done better if it had not been for the cheesy ending with Orihime.


----------



## Ignis (Jun 28, 2008)

> MY NAME IS DRAGON AND I AM THE DONG MASTER OH GOD DO I LOVE ME SOME FRESH DONGS AT THE SEAFOOD MARKET



oh my dragon how rude of you


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Jun 28, 2008)

Dupes? Dragon dont make dupes. Why would I need a dupe, when I haunt your minds everyday all day from the ownage i delivered on each and every one of the OBD members? You guys will never forget the most wanted man. The most wanted man destroyed your dreams, shattered them, ruined you mentally and physically. You go to sleep every night thinking about how life could have been if I hadnt met Dragon. You wake up in the morning depressed and angry, knowing that Dragon wasnt a dream, but Dragon is real. 

I was so built up in your mind, you had to dedicate a whole website on me, just to get things out of your mind and onto the computer. Or else suicide was approaching. 

I will always be here, in your minds, in your hearts, in your nightmares.....


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 28, 2008)

Hahahaha...


----------



## Ennoea (Jun 28, 2008)

Okay calm down Dragon.

And this weeks chapters were all decent, tho OP rocked more than the other ones. Kuma is gonna pwn some Kidd


----------



## Fang (Jun 28, 2008)

Dragon took the blue pill.

Also, Kidd and Law were again amazing in the new OP chapter.

Finally Bleach is living it up by getting Yamamoto-Ji involved in things.

Naruto's new chapter sucked.

" HAR HAR TITS IN A DEPRESSIVE MOMENT OF NARUTO'S LIFE WITH SHITTY COMEDY "

Pathetic.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 28, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Dragon took the blue pill.
> 
> Also, Kidd and Law were again amazing in the new OP chapter.
> 
> ...



I actually found the new naruto chapter kindof decent as it was better than the usual crap we get. I found much of the dialogue pretty boring though and pointless.

Didnt happen much in Bleach but Yama doing some pretty cool stuff made it decent for me.

And OP wasnt as epic as last week however it was good as usual. Kuma appearing so suddenly me go WTF.


----------



## armorknight (Jun 28, 2008)

My Thoughts.

Naruto: It appears the series is finally getting back on track after the Uchiha garbage. I do hate these lag times that are common in Naruto tho.

Bleach: As stated in other posts, Yama was pretty much the only good thing about this chapter.

OP: The best of the 3 this week. Kuma's arrival and his potential fight with Kidd were excellent twists as well.


----------



## Beowulf24 (Jun 28, 2008)

Naruto: pointless character development, i want some ACTION and buttkicking.. but rofls to jirayia for that amazing 106 number comment to kakashi

Bleach: i wanna see stork do some whoopass on yama, since hes 1st espada and obviously gonna fight him

OP: Kidd should learn to use his magnetism and change it into electricity! and with Kuma.. Kidd should just repel his metal parts to kingdom wherever


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 28, 2008)

This week's OP chapter was amazing, Kidd's power are so fucking awesome its not even funny. But I still like Law better  
It was nice seeing Usopp kicking ass with the crew too.

And Naruto was pretty meh this week. But atleast after getting PEP TALK'd by Shikamaru maybe he'll finally stop being a wreck.



Dragon said:


> Dupes? Dragon dont make dupes. Why would I need a dupe, when I haunt your minds everyday all day from the ownage i delivered on each and every one of the OBD members? You guys will never forget the most wanted man. The most wanted man destroyed your dreams, shattered them, ruined you mentally and physically. You go to sleep every night thinking about how life could have been if I hadnt met Dragon. You wake up in the morning depressed and angry, knowing that Dragon wasnt a dream, but Dragon is real.
> 
> I was so built up in your mind, you had to dedicate a whole website on me, just to get things out of your mind and onto the computer. Or else suicide was approaching.
> 
> I will always be here, in your minds, in your hearts, in your nightmares.....


----------



## Zephos (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko is there a connection between your liking of sexually ambiguous nancy boy characters and your apparent urge to fellate dick-girls.


----------



## p-lou (Jun 28, 2008)




----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 28, 2008)

What does being an aloof pompous antisocial ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) have anything to do with SUPERIORITY anyway


----------



## Aldric (Jun 28, 2008)

This is possibly the shittiest tagline in history


----------



## The Doctor (Jun 28, 2008)

^Damn you, p-lou.
I was about to do that


----------



## Aldric (Jun 28, 2008)

Mouth full of cocks... No...

It's only...

SUPERIORITY


----------



## MdB (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko, if Byakuya was a dick-girl, would you suck his cock?


----------



## Aldric (Jun 28, 2008)

Semen in the eye...

No... It's only...

SUPERIORITY


----------



## MdB (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko, if Hitsugaya was a dick-girl, would you suck his cock?


----------



## MdB (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko, if Sasuke was a dick-girl, would you suck his cock?


----------



## MdB (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko, who is hotter? Byakuya, Histugaya or Sasuke?


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 28, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Thx for the explanations of E-bully.
> 
> On topic...
> 
> ...




brooke wins this IMO.


----------



## Pilot (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko how about contributing instead of posting stupid 1-liners and cheesey images



Dragon said:


> Dupes? Dragon dont make dupes. Why would I need a dupe, when I haunt your minds everyday all day from the ownage i delivered on each and every one of the OBD members? You guys will never forget the most wanted man. The most wanted man destroyed your dreams, shattered them, ruined you mentally and physically. You go to sleep every night thinking about how life could have been if I hadnt met Dragon. You wake up in the morning depressed and angry, knowing that Dragon wasnt a dream, but Dragon is real.
> 
> I was so built up in your mind, you had to dedicate a whole website on me, just to get things out of your mind and onto the computer. Or else suicide was approaching.
> 
> I will always be here, in your minds, in your hearts, in your nightmares.....



go away


----------



## Fang (Jun 28, 2008)

Byakuya is superiority?

Isn't that the same dumb-ass Captain who said he would stomp on Ichigo's pride and then got casually blitzed and made of a fool of by Bankai Ichigo?

Superiority....and Byakuya?

Hahahahahaha no.


----------



## AndrewGreen (Jun 28, 2008)




----------



## Mr Odlaw (Jun 28, 2008)

oh god poz


----------



## Kenny Florian (Jun 28, 2008)

It needs Mudkipz.


----------



## Shoddragon (Jun 28, 2008)

I think you guys forgot about kungfu bear .


----------



## Soul Vibe (Jun 28, 2008)

Mike Hunt said:


> Ok so this is just a comparison of the fans opinion on this forum:
> 
> One Piece:
> 
> ...




i didnt read past this


----------



## Tash (Jun 28, 2008)

Out of all the captains Law has some of the best crewmen, the bear and that big looking pirate he recruited this chapter both have awesome designs.


----------



## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 28, 2008)

Swajio said:


> Out of all the captains Law has some of the best crewmen, the bear and that big looking pirate he recruited this chapter both have awesome designs.



Killer and Metalhead Firebreathing zombie from Kid's crew are pretty amazing too.


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## MuNaZ (Jun 28, 2008)

Swajio said:


> Out of all the captains Law has some of the best crewmen, the bear and that big looking pirate he recruited this chapter both have awesome designs.



yeah.. But Kidd as also some cool one... like Zombie that spits fire 
But i feel Killer design could be somewhat better... can't give reasons why...


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## Mr Odlaw (Jun 28, 2008)

One Piece has had a pretty consistent record for revealing incredible characters

hell, this arc alone is basically The Cool Guys Jamboree


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## Pilot (Jun 28, 2008)

seiko how about contributing instead of negging me


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## Tash (Jun 28, 2008)

Mr Odlaw said:


> One Piece has had a pretty consistent record for revealing incredible characters
> 
> hell, this arc alone is basically The Cool Guys Jamboree



Pretty much. I don't think there has been a character design introduced this arc that I don't like. X Drake, Urouge, Capone. I can't wait to see what's in store for Kizaru.


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## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 28, 2008)

With a Shichibukai and an Admiral coming to the same place at the same time you know its gonna get epic.


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## PlaygroundPredator (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko is now mute(or he hit his head one too many times) and can now only express himself through pictures 

Like that one painter, i forget his name


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## C-Moon (Jun 28, 2008)

What did you do, Seiko?



PlaygroundPredator said:


> With a Shichibukai and an Admiral coming to the same place at the same time you know its gonna get epic.




I wonder how the repel ability would work against Kuma.


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## Tash (Jun 28, 2008)

I doubt Oda would make that much of an intentional mismatch against a Shichibukai, Bartholomew is probably made of some un-attractable alloy or something like that.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 28, 2008)

Deleted posts.  I'm shocked.  That would definitely make a difference.


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## Ennoea (Jun 28, 2008)

Lol I liked this weeks Bleach, the tension between Ulquiorra and Hime was awesome


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## MdB (Jun 28, 2008)

Will this thread eventually equal Rild's meltdown in deleted posts?


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## Sasuke (Jun 28, 2008)

So we all agree that Sasuke's the best character produced from the three manga?


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## Ennoea (Jun 28, 2008)

Hell no Sasuke


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## p-lou (Jun 28, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> So we all agree that Sasuke's the worst character produced from the three manga and any other form of fiction?



Yes..............


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## Byakuya (Jun 28, 2008)

It seems the staff is not entirely useless after all, although they did leave behind quite a few low-quality posts from the weaklings residing here..


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## Seto Kaiba (Jun 28, 2008)

~L~ said:


> It seems the staff is not entirely useless after all, although they did leave behind quite a few low-quality posts from the weaklings residing here..



...weaklings?


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## Ennoea (Jun 28, 2008)

> It seems the staff is not entirely useless after all, although they did leave behind quite a few low-quality posts from the weaklings residing here..



I would assume so since you're posts are still here....


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

~L~ said:


> It seems the staff is not entirely useless after all, although they did leave behind quite a few low-quality posts from the weaklings residing here..



It seems you are not entirely useless after all, although you did leave behind quite a few low-quality posts for the weaklings (WTF? Superiority complex much?) residing here.

Actually, change that. You are entirely useless.

It seems this thread will never die. Therefore, I decided to start posting again. Too bad. I've never been very honest.


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## Matariki (Jun 28, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> So we all agree that Sasuke's the best character produced from the three manga?



We agree that he is a genius like Hitsugaya.


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## Sasuke (Jun 28, 2008)

Ennoea said:


> I would assume so since you're posts are still here....



"I would assume so since you are posts are still here."

You know, that doesn't make sense.


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> "I would assume so since you are posts are still here."
> 
> You know, that doesn't make sense.



Do you use petty grammar insults used to cover an incredibly low sense of self-esteem? It would appear so. 

Remember when this thread was younger and there were actually some intelligent Naruto-fans and Bleach-fans?


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## Ennoea (Jun 28, 2008)

> You know, that doesn't make sense.



Im sure you got the overall message


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko, L, and Sasuke make Baby Jesus cry


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## ~Shin~ (Jun 28, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __


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## Matariki (Jun 28, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Remember when this thread was younger and there were actually some intelligent Naruto-fans and Bleach-fans?



I'm still here.


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## ~Shin~ (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I'm still here.



Good. Now where's the intelligent Naruto and Bleach fans?


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I'm still here.



So you're not a Bleach or Naruto fan?


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## armorknight (Jun 28, 2008)

I would really like to know what Sasuke-fanboys see in the guy. Really, Sasuke is one of the biggest pricks in all of shounen. Naruto has good characters. but Sasuke isn't one of them.


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## Pilot (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko

how does posting a picture of Byakuya make you intelligent

tell me



~L~ said:


> It seems the staff is not entirely useless after all, although they did leave behind quite a few low-quality posts from the weaklings residing here..



haha I don't even know what to say to this


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## Tash (Jun 28, 2008)

~Shin~ said:


> *Spoiler*: __



This needs to be quoted. And yea, Sasuke is possibly one of the worst characters in manga today. I could name some Inuyasha characters with better character than him.


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## Sasuke (Jun 28, 2008)

If you read through this thread you will find that the majority of the insults and petty flaming comes from the OP fans, I guess it's all the built up frustration from reading a manga that's less than mediocre week in week out and where the "badass" characters look like cartoon drag queens.

*Spoiler*: __ 





Honestly, pink feathers?


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## MdB (Jun 28, 2008)

Seiko, ever sucked a dick?


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## enigma6 (Jun 28, 2008)

Has anyone noticed that Sasuke has never properly won any of his major fights since he reappeared.


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## Byakuya (Jun 28, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> It seems you are not entirely useless after all, although you did leave behind quite a few low-quality posts for the weaklings (WTF? Superiority complex much?) residing here.
> 
> Actually, change that. You are entirely useless.
> 
> It seems this thread will never die. Therefore, I decided to start posting again. Too bad. I've never been very honest.



You seem incredibly weak, please go back to bed little one.


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## Tash (Jun 28, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> If you read through this thread you will find that the majority of the insults and petty flaming comes from the OP fans, I guess it's all the built up frustration from reading a manga that's less than mediocre week in week out and where the "badass" characters look like cartoon drag queens.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


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## Sasuke (Jun 28, 2008)

Lets all post my avatar so we can see how badass Sasuke looks in it


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> If you read through this thread you will find that the majority of the insults and petty flaming comes from the OP fans, I guess it's all the built up frustration from reading a manga that's less than mediocre week in week out and where the "badass" characters look like cartoon drag queens.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



You pick to insult Doflamingo of all people? This is a guy that could kill Sasuke simply by wiggling his fingers. He could also do the same to Hitsugaya. 

Don't judge a book by its cover. One Piece has better character development, art, and story development then Bleach or Naruto, and Doflamingo is a vicious pirate who would manipulate you into breaking your own neck. Pretty pink feathers indeed.



Sasuke said:


> Lets all post my avatar so we can see how badass Sasuke looks in it



Well, if you think that's the reason...


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## armorknight (Jun 28, 2008)

To be honest, I actually think that byakuya and hitsugaya are half-decent characters. It's true that they have the same "cool guy" stereotype as Sasuke. Unlike Sasuke, however, they actually have balls and can get over themselves.


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## Ennoea (Jun 28, 2008)

Haven't any of you guys read OP?

Byakuya isn't too bad but Hitsugaya is a joke, a crap character thats only still in the manga because he's worshipped by 10 year old girls.


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## Zephos (Jun 28, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> If you read through this thread you will find that the majority of the insults and petty flaming comes from the OP fans, I guess it's all the built up frustration from reading a manga that's less than mediocre week in week out and where the "badass" characters look like cartoon drag queens.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



I love how the faggy drag pop emo/tokio hotel/MCR/ generation is so quick to piss and moan about the Glam Rock generation fashions.

Bitch, your girly men wouldn't be here without the manly men in girly clothes who came before you.

Also, the Op fans have flamed more AND actually posted counter arguments and proof of things. You three clowns have done nothing but post one liners and poorly made macros.


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## MdB (Jun 28, 2008)

~L~ said:


> You seem incredibly weak, please go back to bed little one.



And that comes from someone who cosplay's on the internet.


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## Pilot (Jun 28, 2008)

~L~ said:


> You seem incredibly weak, please go back to bed little one.



"go back to bed"

wow


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## Byakuya (Jun 28, 2008)

You people are truly amusing, well done.


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

~L~ said:


> You people are truly amusing, well done.



Thank you. We're almost as amusing as your own posts.


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## Pilot (Jun 28, 2008)

~L~ said:


> You people are truly amusing, well done.



unable to have a personality of your own, you steal the persona of a poorly-made fictional character

unable to think of any comebacks, you hide behind the sad facade

break free of your bonds, ~L~

edit: living inside the shell, indeed


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 28, 2008)

SUPERIORITY


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## Byakuya (Jun 28, 2008)

Excellent, please do continue.


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## Pilot (Jun 28, 2008)

~L~ said:


> Excellent, please do continue.



BREAK FREE, L
_
YOU CAN DO IT_


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## mystictrunks (Jun 28, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> If you read through this thread you will find that the majority of the insults and petty flaming comes from the OP fans, I guess it's all the built up frustration from reading a manga that's less than mediocre week in week out and where the "badass" characters look like cartoon drag queens.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



What's wrong with pink feathers? If you have the swag you can pull anything off. But I guess a lame with 0 swagger wouldn't understand.


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## Tash (Jun 28, 2008)

Yes, continue, it appeals to our "superiority."


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## C-Moon (Jun 28, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> So we all agree that Sasuke's the best character produced from the three manga?


Wow, your standards are pathetic. Run and hide in UG again, you have nothing productive.


Seiko said:


> We agree that he is a genius like Hitsugaya.





Seiko said:


> I'm still here.


That's nothing to be proud of. That's actually a minus.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 28, 2008)

Uchiha Gods: The lobotomized version of Golden Byakugam.


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## mystictrunks (Jun 28, 2008)

Wait. People actually like bitch made Byakuya as a character?


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## C-Moon (Jun 28, 2008)

enigma6 said:


> Has anyone noticed that Sasuke has never properly won any of his major fights since he reappeared.



No one wanted to kill him except for the one who had the disadvantage(Deidara), and he almost did it. He's not as strong as ppl think, but the wanking still pisses me off.


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## Fang (Jun 28, 2008)

Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

" Mircales only happen once "

Link removed

" Earlier you said that mircales only happen once "

Link removed

" So what do you call it this time? " 

Superiority my ass.

Wounded Ichigo with inexpierence with Bankai > Byakuya.

Le Roux with PIS > Byakuya.

Grimmjow > Byakuya.

Shirosaki/Hollow Ichigo > Byakuya.

Aizen > Byakuya.

So many too name just from Bleach alone.


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## tanukibeast (Jun 28, 2008)

Who would've guess that this would have turned into a flame war? 

Swajio, who is the character in your avatar?


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## Tash (Jun 28, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Wait. People actually like bitch made Byakuya as a character?



What? He only lost to a horribly wounded Ichigo with a few hours experience in bankai. Clearly an unmatched warrior.


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## Zephos (Jun 28, 2008)

Donquixote would turn Sasuke out on the streets, a dollar for the mouth, two for behind. Three for his empty eye sockets after Flamingo makes him gouge his precious sharingans out with his own hands.


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

Since this is pointless, I'll do a summary of the Szayel fight.

Renji: HOLY SHIT, I'M WASTING SPACE!!! Oh yeah, where was I?
Szayel: Surprise!
Renji: Since Kubo won't give me a power-boost, I'm going to have to be creative and use... BANKAI!!!
(Renji uses bankai and failz.)
Renji: What?
Szayel: I'm in yur room, haking yur banKAI!!!
Renji: I attack!
Szayel: Yur 2 slow.
Renji: You remind me of someone. 

Mayuri:Kubo, this isn't fair. I'm one of your top characters, yet you won't let me be a villain in this arc.
Kubo: Hmm...
Mayuri: Afterall, you do need a mad scientist. It's not like you're going to make a clone of me that looks surprisingly feminine, right?
Kubo: Hmm...

Szayel: Kill him, my minions!!!
Renji: Nooooo!!! I can't lose and die to this fat arrancar! Otherwise, all the internet porn would have been in vain.
Szayel_0
Renji: Nevermind. 
(Renji is saved from fat arrancar.)
Renji: It's a bird!
Fat Arrancar: It's a plane!
Szayel: It's an original character!
Uryu: No, my friends, I'm none of those. I'm... URYU!!!
(Uryu and Renji slaughter all of the fodder arrancar.)
Szayel: You can't beat me, since I'm hax!
Uryu and Renji: O RLY?
(Renji pulls Szayel close and wraps them together.)
Renji: Surprise Buttsecks!!!
Szayel: GET AWAY FROM ME!!!
Uryu: By the power of plot-haxors, I summon thee... GIGANTIC STAR THINGIE OF DEATH!!!
(Szayel is hurt by the gigantic star thingie of death.)
Szayel: Ouch, I'm half naked. 
Renji: o_0 Where's your hollow hole?
Uryu: Do you really want to know?
Renji: I guess not.
Fodder Arrancar: Hello, I'm a teletubby from Sunnyland, and I'm going to be your friend, Szayel...
Szayel: RAUGH I'M GONNA EAT YOUR FACE OFF!!!!!!!!!! GET IN MAI BELLY!!!
Fodder Arrancar: Please, don't eat-
Szayel:*Munch* Yummy. *Munch*
Renji: o_0
Uryu_0 I thought you were gonna die.
Szayel: I got better. Now I'm going to prolong this pointless fight by leaving for a while. See yah, suckers.

Part 2 coming soon: Will Szayel die? Will this pointless fight ever end? Will Kubo ever realize how badly he's screwed up his manga? Join us, for Part 2 of the infinitely long Szayel fight!


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## Ennoea (Jun 28, 2008)

> What? He only lost to a horribly wounded Ichigo with a few hours experience in bankai. Clearly an unmatched warrior.



Clearly

And Szayel stopped a fight to change his clothes, he rules


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## Gary (Jun 28, 2008)

LOL THIS ISNT LOCKED YET LOL but any way onepiece>>>> bleach>>>>>>>. narutomanga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SHIT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SASUKE


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

Gary said:


> LOL THIS ISNT LOCKED YET LOL but any way onepiece>>>> bleach>>>>>>>. narutomanga >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SHIT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SASUKE



Please, God, keep this amazing thread from being locked. I beg of you. Amen.

Anyway, Berserk>One Piece. I just started, and it's already awesome.


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## Gary (Jun 28, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Please, God, keep this amazing thread from being locked. I beg of you. Amen.
> 
> Anyway, *Berserk>One Piece*. I just started, and it's already awesome.



I agree with the bold


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## Gary (Jun 28, 2008)

Also why is this thread going on so far this is just people talking about manga  we have already had a few of these threads


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

Gary said:


> Also why is this thread going on so far this is just people talking about manga  we have already had a few of these threads



There have been several of these threads. Whenever one falls, another rises to take its place.

On another topic, is that Gary from pokemon in your avatar?


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## enigma6 (Jun 28, 2008)

What I find funny is how sasuke never won a proper fight.
my reasons:
Orochimaru-only due to the fact that he was sick and some pnj "power of wills" bull.(the latter refers to the point after sasuke was swallowed by Orochimaru's snake form.) , Deidara-self-destruct,pnj(otherwise it would have been a draw.),Itachi=sickness,pnj.

While on the oro fight I agree that the first half was fair because they're ninjas,they should be attacking weakened opponents. However after he was swallowed that was pretty much the end.

Deidara- Sasuke was clearly stated to be out of or had very little chakra. Deidara had enough left to self-destruct. Kishi however decided to retcon this and give him enough to summon Manda.How he was able to get inside of him considering the fact couldn't even walk, I don't know, or suddenly be warped away.(could someone explain that please.)    

Itachi-(lol do I even need to.)

Byakuya-I like this character, but really, If Zomari wasn't such a dumb fuck he would have won with ease.This is why Bleach and Naruto are Shonen. I'm not even gonna touch one piece.

As a whole, I do like all three, but as of right now. One Piece> Bleach(would have been first but then orihime just had to let the world know shes still there)> Naruto.

lol, Hitsu is filler.

Thank you guys for telling me.


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## Tash (Jun 28, 2008)

You mixed up your math symbols thar bud.


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## C. Hook (Jun 28, 2008)

Edit: Nevermind, fixed.


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## atom (Jun 28, 2008)

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure ∞> Beserk


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## Sylar (Jun 28, 2008)

Law and Kid >>>>>>>>>>>>> Narutoverse and Bleachverse.


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## enigma6 (Jun 28, 2008)

Its so true,it ain't even funny


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## Dance (Jun 29, 2008)

seriously

what the hell


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## enigma6 (Jun 29, 2008)

woah, whats with the sasuke post,not tryin to be offensive,just askin.

*whines abit after noticing his thread fell into the abyss*


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## Aokiji (Jun 29, 2008)

atom said:


> JoJo's Bizarre Adventure ∞> Beserk



Are you really 12? If so, no womder that yopu don't get Berserk.....


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## Zephos (Jun 29, 2008)

He's a big sonic fan too, as in Archie sonic.


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## Sasuke (Jun 29, 2008)

atom said:


> JoJo's Bizarre Adventure ∞> Beserk





Ahahahahahahahaha.


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## Aokiji (Jun 29, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Ahahahahahahahaha.



Lol, Sasuke likes Berserk.


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## Yakushi Kabuto (Jun 29, 2008)

Oh I'm sure I or someone should have closed this long ago since it is just people just trying to insult each other, spam, or other assorted things along that line. And so, bye thread.


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