# Sora vs Trunks



## Bender (Aug 21, 2010)

Kingdom Hearts

Sora





VS.


Dragon Ball Z

Trunks




In a fight to the death who'd win?


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Time Stop + Genie would you please teleport trunks to outter space?


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## Knight (Aug 21, 2010)

He requires a gesture+aim to use stop(as a matter of fact he doesn't have stop in KH 2, lost it in Oblivion instead has some attack called aero).

he won't have the time(no pun intended) to to summon before he gets slaughter by Trunks.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

Speedblitz+ whatever. Don't know why generic timestop is being given significance. Genie won't get summoned in time either. Tao who was not even the strongest in early DB was mach 14. Barring that Trunks trumps Sora statistically  in other areas as well.  No he's not dodging an explosion made by Trunk's blasts either.


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## Level7N00b (Aug 21, 2010)

I demand this fuckery be explained now. 

Trunks is massively hypersonic, so the thought that Sora would even be able to lift his Keyblade before he gets the Frieza treatment isn't even funny.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

Why was this thread made? Spite or wank? Both are retarded reasons, Sora statistically is more comparable to HST characters than he is to a SSJ that could kill Frieza and only got stronger and stronger.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Sora is hypersonic too.

And weren't there human spectators in deep Dragon Ball?


Anyway, I don't want anything else to do with this thread.


Only comparing him to HST characters, is well, lol. Major looool.


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

What's with all these spite threads lately? Trunks stomps.


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## Level7N00b (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Sora is hypersonic too.
> 
> And weren't there human spectators in deep Dragon Ball?



What has that got to do with anything?


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

Hypersonic in what numbers? Mach 14 was what someone whose not even good enough to be fodder in part 2 was. The spectators could'nt see the fight in Cell saga, they were too fast.


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## Goshinki (Aug 21, 2010)

oh wait your serious.  Trunks speedblitzs


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Hypersonic in what numbers? Mach 14 was what someone whose not even good enough to be fodder in part 2 was.



There's lot of debate on this.
There's lightning reaction but it did came from a lightning user who was magical in her nature, and a few light timing feats.
The light timing feats are ridiculous (he light times a laser, punts it, travels ahead of it, and then punts it elsewhere, while the entire world is stopped, or the Xenmas fight (a light manipulator) and rare in nature so the theory is that key blade users while normally at a set hypersonic value, can tap into the keyblade's time fuckery powers to hit those feats.

There's also the ftl space fuckery, but that's worthless here.




> The spectators could'nt see the fight in Cell saga, they were too fast.


eeeeeeeeeeeh for massively hypersonicals I sure remember that battle taking it's sweeeet time


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## Bender (Aug 21, 2010)

Umm hellooo did you guys forget Sora' reaction speed?

He can keep up with Trunks with that


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## SasuOna (Aug 21, 2010)

Oh yeah I forgot Sora does indeed have feats putting his reaction speed up at triple digit hypersonic.
hmmm this suddenly became more interesting


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Bender said:


> Umm hellooo did you guys forget Sora' reaction speed?
> 
> He can keep up with Trunks with that



No he can't. Not to mention Trunks cut through Freeza who tanked the explosion of planet Namek. He's way out of his league here.


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## Level7N00b (Aug 21, 2010)

Trunks fires a moon buster.

Sora dies in the explosion.


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## SasuOna (Aug 21, 2010)

Sora summons Genie


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## Bender (Aug 21, 2010)

Okay to make things fair Sora has the same speed as Trunks does


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Bender said:


> Okay to make things fair Sora has the same speed as Trunks does



Still nothing happens. How is Sora gonna survive a planet buster?


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## Bender (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Still nothing happens. How is Sora gonna survive a planet buster?



The Reflect spell


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

Anyway the only thing he has is Genie so if he can summon that then well Genie would give the win. Out of curiousity what is Genie's durability, reaction and movement speed?If Trunks can't stopp Genie from being summoned or take out Genie before he does something he'll lose.

EDIT GTFO with your No limits Fallacy, the reflect spell has never worked on something like that, but Trunks fists or sword will do too.


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

SasuOna said:


> Sora summons Genie



I assume this is Sora from KH2. Sora's Reaction speed is Pretty Damn fast, and when he was reflecting those lasers... BUT, Did you see Frieza after Trunks got through with him.? Trunks Stomps.


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## Bender (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Anyway the only thing he has is Genie so if he can summon that then well Genie would give the win. Out of curiousity what is Genie's durability, reaction and movement speed?If Trunks can't stopp Genie from being summoned or take out Genie before he does something he'll lose.



Dude he's a genie 

He can't kill or be killed.



> EDIT GTFO with your No limits Fallacy, the reflect spell has never worked on something like that, but Trunks fists or sword will do too.



Or Aero


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Bender said:


> The Reflect spell



When has it shown reflecting a planet buster?



Tranquil Fury said:


> Anyway the only thing he has is Genie so if he can summon that then well Genie would give the win. Out of curiousity what is Genie's durability, reaction and movement speed?If Trunks can't stopp Genie from being summoned or take out Genie before he does something he'll lose.
> 
> EDIT GTFO with your No limits Fallacy, the reflect spell has never worked on something like that, but Trunks fists or sword will do too.


By the time Sora summons Genie or ask him for anything Trunks bust the planet.


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> When has it shown reflecting a planet buster?
> 
> 
> By the time Sora summons Genie or ask him for anything Trunks bust the planet.



who agrees that Trunks' speed will be fast enough to kill Sora before he has time to use Reflega.?


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

DemonFoxSlayer said:


> who agrees that Trunks' speed will be fast enough to kill Sora before he has time to use Reflega.?


Speed equalized by the OP. But Tao Pai Pai was calculated to be Mach 14 with his pillar feat. Trunks is way beyond Tao Pai Pai. Speed not equalized Trunks blitz.
Who agrees that Sora's reflectga would be a threat to Trunks in the first place?


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## SasuOna (Aug 21, 2010)

Sora wins this 
trunks is not winning once Genie is summoned, I doubt Sora is worried about a planet buster when he can telaport and Trunks cannot breath in space anyway.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Bender said:


> Okay to make things fair Sora has the same speed as Trunks does



Genie please send trunks to space


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Speed equalized by the OP. But Tao Pai Pai was calculated to be Mach 14 with his *pillar feat*.






> Who agrees that Sora's reflectga would be a threat to Trunks in the first place?



Yes, of course. Sora is not outpowering Trunks although Trunk's vulnerability to magic sword is up in the air.


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Genie please send trunks to space



There's a summoning time which by then Trunks already blasted Sora.


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

SasuOna said:


> Sora wins this
> trunks is not winning once Genie is summoned, I doubt Sora is worried about a planet buster when he can telaport and Trunks cannot breath in space anyway.



But wouldn't sending Trunks to Space count as Killing Him? Or would he have to literally say, "I wish Trunk was dead'...


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

DemonFoxSlayer said:


> But wouldn't sending Trunks to Space count as Killing Him? Or would he have to literally say, *"I wish Trunk was dead'...*



Genie's power doesn't allow anyone to make such wish come true he said so himself.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

Trunks will not bust a planet nor does he need planet busting for Sora, Even casual island or mountain busters being spammed that take barely much energy will do. Genie can beat Trunks obviously with his cosmic power but this is Sora vs Trunks not Genie vs Trunks so the matter of summoning and asking for something is there. 

Please don't abuse gameplay mechanics into a No limits Fallacy, use the cutscenes or reaction command feats. I could understand someone saying Genie could block the planet buster but the reflect spell? Magic is separate in DB to begin with, Babidi is magic while everything else in that verse is about energy such as life/ki.

EDIT Jafar could but there's a difference in their character. Now I ask for Genie's durability and reaction. Genie could solo by growing bigger than the planet or do just about anything but could Trunks blitz him and take out Sora before the wish is made?


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> There's a summoning time which by then Trunks already blasted Sora.



what summoning time?


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## SasuOna (Aug 21, 2010)

Sending Trunks into space would be a BFR 
Trunks would lose


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Genie's power doesn't allow anyone to make such wish come true he said so himself.



I Know. I was asking if Sora wish trunks to space would count as Killing him. If so, it would be against Genie's Rules.


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> what summoning time?



Marine Battleships each several times larger than the prop Lucci and Luffy were fighting in?
And what's faster? Sora summoning something then mumble some words for his wish vs Trunks just raise his hand and casually unleash a city level+ blast?



DemonFoxSlayer said:


> I Know. I was asking if Sora wish trunks to space would count as Killing him. If so, it would be against Genie's Rules.


No it actually wouldn't because your sending someone to another location what happens later on its out of Genie's power's jurisdiction. It wouldn't be different to sent Trunks into a building than to sent him to outer space.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> the reflect spell?



There are a few things that can be awarded to the reflect spell

They are pretty much as follows
It will block any *type* of attack (mental magical electrical physical etc.)

It will block up to Dragon Xenmas level of strikes. And dragon xenmas was quite up the food chain.

It's a very short term lasting defense

Can be interrupted through time stop


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## SasuOna (Aug 21, 2010)

Reflect spell says hi
mark 6:20
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iz6o8UgwEs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
Trunks ki blasts are not as fast as actual lasers
Using Genie Sora wins this regardless


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

Forgot Speed is equal so Trunks can't blitz Sora but it would still be good to know Genie's reaction/durability so we know what can blitz him and kill him regardless of who wins this thread.

EDIT The reflect spell has blocked psychic/physical attacks now? I thought it only blocks magic both in FF and KH?I don't remember it working like that in KH2.  And how strong is Xemnas's attacks now? No one has explained why attacks from someone that makes city and island levels look micro in comparison will be blocked.


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## Level7N00b (Aug 21, 2010)

Is there no end to this faggotry? Trunks kills Sora and anyone who isn't a wanker know it.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Marine Battleships each several times larger than the prop Lucci and Luffy were fighting in?
> And what's faster? Sora summoning something then mumble some words for his wish vs Trunks just raise his hand and casually unleash a city level+ blast?


Dude, that's like Transformation sequence trope.
Notice how he couldn't be attacked during the time he did it?
In KHII there even one isn't any most of the times.


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

SasuOna said:


> Reflect spell says hi
> mark 6:20
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iz6o8UgwEs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
> Trunks ki blasts are not as fast as actual lasers
> Using Genie Sora wins this regardless



Prove that that those are "actual" lasers and not just "magic" lasers because they're not the same. For example, thunderspell is not actual lightning that moves hundreds of times the speed of sound and generate tens of thousands of Kelvin. 

And reflectga hasn't shown reflecting city level+ blasts.



Banhammer said:


> Dude, that's like Transformation sequence trope.
> Notice how he couldn't be attacked during the time he did it?
> In KHII there even one isn't any most of the times.


Okay it can be trope. But, he still need to tell Genie what to do. Which before he does, Trunks already attack and one-shot him.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

Ignoring the trope abused in other rpgs the summoning would take time no?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Ignoring the trope abused in other rpgs the summoning would take time no?



Time Stop + Summoning?


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## Knight (Aug 21, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Time Stop + Summoning?



He lost Time stop in Chain of Memories.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Knight said:


> He lost Time stop in Chain of Memories.



Unless OP states he has all his abilities.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

Okay I'll play your game, he stops time then summons genie. Now how long does stopping time last outside gameplay and how long does it take to summon Genie outside gameplay?

EDIT Could it be timestop is just gameplay only or is it a canon ability referenced somewhere? I will not argue if so.


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

If Sora uses Genie then of Course he wins, unless Trunks Kills him before hand. Which is possible, because when Sora summons Genie, it shows a long ass cutscene. Trunks can stomp then. The Rules for this forum should of been, no outside help INCLUDING summons. 

Well, if Sora uses Genie, then Technically, Genie beat Trunks using his magic. It wouldn't be a satisfying victory.

Another point to be made. Sense when does Sora use wishes with Genie? Genie just does spells on his own, Sora doesn't make wishes. Genie comes as an aid, not as a Genie to give Sora three wishes. So Could Sora really Do that? Could he Really send Trunks to Space with Genie.?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Okay I'll play your game, he stops time then summons genie. Now how long does stopping time last outside gameplay and how long does it take to summon Genie outside gameplay?





This type of thing has been done in every other match. What's the problem now?



> EDIT Could it be timestop is just gameplay only or is it a canon ability referenced somewhere? I will not argue if so.



Stop spell (KH1) and Genie summon?


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Prove that that those are "actual" lasers and not just "magic" lasers because they're not the same. For example, thunderspell is not actual lightning that moves hundreds of times the speed of sound and generate tens of thousands of Kelvin.



First of all, let it be understood that I at no point endorse SasuOna's post.
In fact I just got raigen effected right out of this thread after this post


Xenmas is a light manipulator and you need to give us cause to believe for them to be magically slower than light.
The sniper moments, and others that escape me also provide with opportunity to elaborate on this, but while there is an undeniable disparity, these are the moments that could fall into the time fuckery theory.

Thunderspell for example uses actual electricity. In kingdom hearts I it was used to power an entire city block. Even in nature, lightning varies in power and intensity, but never in speed, because, well, it's speed is not something that relies on that. It relies on the conductivity of the air.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

No Sora does'nt have the lamp Aladdin does, canonically it's still with him but KH is not canon to FF or Disney so who knows. Now again I ask how durable is Genie and what is his reaction? Because if Trunks can't stop the summon or Genie he will lose to Genie.

EDIT Then everyone in FF is a lightning timer or FTL. 



> This type of thing has been done in every other match. What's the problem now?



Answer it instead of making excuses.


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## Knight (Aug 21, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Unless OP states he has all his abilities.


We also use current incarnations also its canon that he lost it. And it will be un canon wise that he has it in KH 2


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> No Sora does'nt have the lamp Aladdin does, canonically it's still with him but KH is not canon to FF or Disney so who knows. Now again I ask how durable is Genie and what is his reaction? Because if Trunks can't stop the summon or Genie he will lose to Genie.



Genie offered his power IIRC in KH1. But his feats would go back to the movies and TV show since he's from Aladdin.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Ignoring the trope abused in other rpgs the summoning would take time no?



I haven't played a whole lot of RPG's, but I've seriously never been attacked by a wild pokemon when I played that, Final Fantasy X and Golden Son always let me summon the flying chicken without a slap and FF XII which was Real Time Play actually let's me destroy a star while I wait for Zodiak to come down and eat a wild chocobo.

Sumoning Genie takes about as much time any spell and requires no stationary  atitude.


Now that Trunks could use an island wide island buster at the start of the fight, well, then, there would be that.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Also, time stop is canon mostly through gameplay (game mechanics do not exclude the existance of this ability, only the effects on people who could be more skilled at it. But then again there is only one possible master skill at stoping time)


However it has been used in Cut Scenes. It was used once by Master Xehanort to break through Reflega


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Knight said:


> We also use current incarnations also its canon that he lost it. And it will be un canon wise that he has it in KH 2



If OP states so. If not, we assume he has all his abilities and stuff. Such as matches involving Dante. He could have his DMC4 feats but we can still say Sparda mode wins even though Trish canonically has the sword.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Also, time stop is canon mostly through gameplay (game mechanics do not exclude the existance of this ability, only the effects on people who could be more skilled at it. But then again there is only one possible master skill at stoping time)
> 
> 
> However it has been used in Cut Scenes. It was used once by Master Xehanort to break through Reflega



This was in Birth By Sleep?


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Time Stop is still present in KHII. He casts it in a Genie Combo sequence

It's also present in the "Light Time" theory, and further presence of the Keyblade time fuckery can be assumed when thinking of the events of Timeless River..


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> First of all, let it be understood that I at no point endorse SasuOna's post.
> In fact I just got raigen effected right out of this thread after this post
> 
> 
> ...


Xemnas does not control light. He controls "nothingness". Roxas was the "light" manipulator. And not all lasers move at the speed of light IIRC because they're so condensed. Also, if we assume every laser is lightspeed, then lol FTL One Piece.


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

If this is Kh2 Sora, He doesn't have Stopga. Unless the Thread is making it to where he has all abilities from KH1 too.


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## Knight (Aug 21, 2010)

basch71 said:


> If OP states so. If not, we assume he has all his abilities and stuff. Such as matches involving Dante. He could have his DMC4 feats but we can still say Sparda mode wins even though Trish canonically has the sword.



Sora's case he that he has new ones in place of the old ones. He lost it canonically hasn't shown to use it since.

Edit. DemonSlayer, fix your sig.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 21, 2010)

The question was'nt about the ability being canon in the verse or not just for Sora in particular.  Dante has used timestop in a cutscene so we know he can, I am not asking for a cutscene if none exist just some mention through him or some source that says he has it canonically, Xenahort used it in a cutscene means he has it. 

Now we've all agreed Genie has the power to beat Trunks so again it comes down to whether Trunks is fast enough to blitz Genie and defeat Sora or whether he can blitz Genie and take him out. I know not much on the powers of Disney Genies except for what I saw in the three Aladdin movies and the cartoon, I know there was someone stronger than them as well. If someone will answer this question then the match can be decided faster.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Xemnas does not control light. He controls "nothingness". Roxas was the "light" manipulator.



Light sabers, light screens, light blasts,  mirrored doubles, Xenmas displays plenty of light fuckery.
Roxas light was.. complicated

In fact, when Xenmas controlls "nothingness" you could say he controls light and darkness.
He also controls all of the organization XIII's powers, so even if Roxas is a light user, then by extension so is mansex.



> And not all lasers move at the speed of light IIRC because they're so condensed.



What?  I'm scratching my head at this one




> Also, if we assume every laser is lightspeed, then lol FTL One Piece.


I frown upon bringing this into conversation.
But if you'll remember, One Piece will warp the laws of reality if it entretains better.
I remind you that the canon reason why Sanji's leg doesn't burn when using Diable's Jamble is because his heart burns hotter than his heel, and that chopper's horns are really growing out of his hat.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> The question was'nt about the ability being canon in the verse or not just for Sora in particular.  Dante has used timestop in a cutscene so we know he can, I am not asking for a cutscene if none exist just some mention through him or some source that says he has it canonically, Xenahort used it in a cutscene means he has it.
> 
> Now we've all agreed Genie has the power to beat Trunks so again it comes down to whether Trunks is fast enough to blitz Genie and defeat Sora or whether he can blitz Genie and take him out. I know not much on the powers of Disney Genies except for what I saw in the three Aladdin movies and the cartoon, I know there was someone stronger than them as well. If someone will answer this question then the match can be decided faster.



Wasn't speed equalized for this match? That's the only reason I'm even arguing for this. Although Genie by himself is a bit much for DBZ (toonforce and cosmic reality warper).



> I frown upon bringing this into conversation.
> But if you'll remember, One Piece will warp the laws of reality if it entretains better.
> I remind you that the canon reason why Sanji's leg doesn't burn when using Diable's Jamble is because his heart burns hotter than his heel, and that chopper's horns are really growing out of his hat.



And Zoro speaks with his heart. By word of God.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

And Nami has Queen Haki


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

Knight said:


> Sora's case he that he has new ones in place of the old ones. He lost it canonically hasn't shown to use it since.
> 
> Edit. DemonSlayer, fix your sig.



Sorry About That.... Yeah, I fixed it. 

Anyways... Exactly, He can't use Stopga. I think Trunks pretty much has this one, He can easily blitz over to Sora Sever his head, before he is done with his Summoning Animation.


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> The question was'nt about the ability being canon in the verse or not just for Sora in particular.  Dante has used timestop in a cutscene so we know he can, I am not asking for a cutscene if none exist just some mention through him or some source that says he has it canonically, Xenahort used it in a cutscene means he has it.
> 
> Now we've all agreed Genie has the power to beat Trunks so again it comes down to whether Trunks is fast enough to blitz Genie and defeat Sora or whether he can blitz Genie and take him out. I know not much on the powers of Disney Genies except for what I saw in the three Aladdin movies and the cartoon, I know there was someone stronger than them as well. If someone will answer this question then the match can be decided faster.



Pretty much. Except now its lightspeed debate. 




Banhammer said:


> Light sabers, light screens, light blasts,  mirrored doubles, Xenmas displays plenty of light fuckery.
> Roxas light was.. complicated
> 
> In fact, when Xenmas controlls "nothingness" you could say he controls light and darkness.
> He also controls all of the organization XIII's powers, so even if Roxas is a light user, then by extension so is mansex.



Your using style over substance. Nothing suggest they are the same as real light sabers, light blasts. And how can you know that's a mirrored double and not a kage bushin of some sort? 






Banhammer said:


> I frown upon bringing this into conversation.
> But if you'll remember, One Piece will warp the laws of reality if it entretains better.
> I remind you that the canon reason why Sanji's leg doesn't burn when using Diable's Jamble is because his heart burns hotter than his heel, and that chopper's horns are really growing out of his hat.



Like Tranquil Fury said, FTL FF chars. And also, you have to take into consideration what we have to assume if Sora's FTL, that means every villain or ally he fought or come across is close to that speed because they can keep up with him. Which then seems very wrong


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Like Tranquil Fury said, FTL FF chars. And also, you have to take into consideration what we have to assume if Sora's FTL, that means every villain or ally he fought or come across is close to that speed because they can keep up with him. Which then seems very wrong



It was kind of random of Sora anyway for all of his feats at the end of KH2 anyway (running up buildings, playing ping-pong with himself with Xigbar's laser arrows, slicing Skyscrapers, defying gravity, playing tennis with Riku w/ Skyscrapers, reacting & deflecting Xemnas' 1000 Lasers attack).


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Aug 21, 2010)

OMG. trunks stomps. he can just fire a planet buster KI attack. or cut him with the sword or just fight H2H.


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> OMG. trunks stomps. he can just fire a planet buster KI attack. or cut him with the sword or just fight H2H.



Yeah, but Sora has Genie who could Wish him to Space, and cut Trunks' Oxygen supply off. We are trying to determine whether or not, Sora summons Genie before Trunks Decapitates him.

I'm Saying Trunk Stomps. Just because of the long summoning Animation.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Your using style over substance. Nothing suggest they are the same as real light sabers, light blasts.


Why would "reality" matter in those cases? He uses them as a close range enhancement so they're as fast as he uses them, or stationary in the walls case, and relating to their power heat and intensity, it would depend on the amount of power Ansem brings, not on the properties of scientific light itself.


> > And how can you know that's a mirrored double and not a kage bushin of some sort?
> 
> 
> Why would it be? One follows his theme the other doesn't.
> ...


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

DemonFoxSlayer said:


> Yeah, but Sora has Genie who could Wish him to Space, and cut Trunks' Oxygen supply off. We are trying to determine whether or not, Sora summons Genie before Trunks Decapitates him.
> 
> I'm Saying Trunk Stomps. Just because of the long summoning Animation.



Wait. We're taking summoning animation into account and not just Sora having Genie grant his wish?


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

I think so? Well thats what Sora does when he summons Genie. Another thing, I Never Seen Sora WISH for something from Genie. Genie does whatever spell he needs to. 

So shouldn't Genie only be able to do the Spells he does in KH2? Not any Extra ones, nor any wishes.?


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Wait. We're taking summoning animation into account and not just Sora having Genie grant his wish?



KH II doesn't even have one most of the time.


----------



## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Why would "reality" matter in those cases? He uses them as a close range enhancement so they're as fast as he uses them, or stationary in the walls case, and relating to their power heat and intensity, it would depend on the amount of power Ansem brings, not on the properties of scientific light itself.


It doesn't. It's just unlike Star Wars, Xemnas' lasers appeared out of nowhere randomly with nothing to hint specifically what they are. That's why we can't just assume they're FTL. 




Banhammer said:


> Why would it be? One follows his theme the other doesn't.
> Larxene could use doubles but those were related to her speed. They were double images.
> 
> While I'm open to be wrong about this, a different idea has never been transmitted to be during the game


Larxene battle in KHII FM is optional and non-canon. Not to mention its game mechanics. She never displayed such feat in Chain of Memories.





Banhammer said:


> No. While we could restrict them only to post Roxas merger only, and sora does blitz all the fodder after that, this is the very reason why I like the "Light Timing Theory"
> Sora taps into these light reaction moments in Quicktime Cutscenes only, which should be short rare burst that appear in time of need where Sora taps into the "time stoping" power of the keyblade in very short amounts in order to achieve these feats. With a very limited amount of time.
> Remember there are other times where he uses time stop in KHII like with Genie combo.
> 
> Awarding Sora pretty much a "whatever speed he needs and no more" card in the obd.


Sorry but this makes no sense to me  One is either FTL or not. No such thing as "rare burst". And Roxas already merged with Sora since the beginning of KH2.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Aug 21, 2010)

I think sora hasn't got enough time to summon the genie. trunks should be a massivley hypersonic character. sora is obviously not. trunks' striking force is hundreds of times humans' one. so speedblitz+punch or kick or anything else=win


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> with nothing to hint specifically what they are.


Ansem's attack was called "1000 Lasers" :33



> After images aren't clear borders in speed you know that.


But it was her shtick. Lightning and speed. 





> Sorry but this makes no sense to me
> And Roxas already merged with Sora since the beginning of KH2.


No, Roxas properly completes Sora at the end of KHII after those two guys fight.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

DemonFoxSlayer said:


> I think so? Well thats what Sora does when he summons Genie. Another thing, I Never Seen Sora WISH for something from Genie. Genie does whatever spell he needs to.
> 
> So shouldn't Genie only be able to do the Spells he does in KH2? Not any Extra ones, nor any wishes.?



The animation would just be for gameplay purposes but it doesn't the fact he has Genie to back him up. With his feats from the movies and the TV show, plus Sora's Stop spell, and if speed is equalized, it would be bad for Trunks. Speed unequalized, Trunks just blitzes.

Genie is a beast as is. I made a match on another forum that had a bloodlusted Genie vs DBZ verse and it was unanimous that he solos.


----------



## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Ansem's attack was called "1000 Lasers" :33


Same thing with Kizaru's "laser". 




Banhammer said:


> But it was her shtick. Lightning and speed. That sitar guy had water for a shtick so he used water clones, and there was a telepath guy so his clones were that.


Its game mechanics and its non-canon. Larxene never displayed such feat in Chain of Memories. 





Banhammer said:


> No, Roxas properly completes Sora at the end of KHII after those two guys fight.


No those 2 are complete in the beginning. Axel's sacrifice somehow "reawaken" Roxas like Xemnas said. Then those 2 have a mental showdown in which Sora won.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> No those 2 are complete in the beginning. Axel's sacrifice somehow "reawaken" Roxas like Xemnas said. Then those 2 have a mental showdown in which Sora won.



wow, I really need to play those new games


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

basch71 said:


> The animation would just be for gameplay purposes but it doesn't the fact he has Genie to back him up. With his feats from the movies and the TV show, plus Sora's Stop spell, and if speed is equalized, it would be bad for Trunks. Speed unequalized, Trunks just blitzes.
> 
> Genie is a beast as is. I made a match on another forum that had a bloodlusted Genie vs DBZ verse and it was unanimous that he solos.



Sora Doesn't Have his Stopga Spell in KH2. If Sora doesn't wish on the Game, then I don't see how he is going to do it in this battle. So how can he send Trunks to space. I can understand the animation thing. But still, Sora has to do some type of movement to Summon something, and the movement will probably take, 4-8 seconds, counting the fact that when Sora summons crap, usually they Slowly appear, they don't just instantly appear in the blink of an Eye. Trunks can blitz, sever his head before Genie can finish appearing, and if Sora's Dead, the match is automatically over, Correct?

EDIT: , eh, lets say it takes 5 or 6 seconds.


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> wow, I really need to play those new games



Yes you should.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

DemonFoxSlayer said:


> Sora Doesn't Have his Stopga Spell in KH2. If Sora doesn't wish on the Game, then I don't see how he is going to do it in this battle. So how can he send Trunks to space. I can understand the animation thing. But still, Sora has to do some type of movement to Summon something, and the movement will probably take, 4-8 seconds, counting the fact that when Sora summons crap, usually they Slowly appear, they don't just instantly appear in the blink of an Eye. Trunks can blitz, sever his head before Genie can finish appearing, and if Sora's Dead, the match is automatically over, Correct?



We went over this before, unless OP states otherwise, we assume he has access to all of his abilities and feats. Seriously, check out his wiki page and check out every match he's been in and time stop + Genie always comes up. And if speed is equalized, Trunks is screwed.

should.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Yes you should.



Why the hell don't we get Final Mix+?


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Yes you should.



Well, clearly I'm too out of touch with the series. I'll come back here later if I feel I have anything new to contribute


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

basch71 said:


> We went over this before, unless OP states otherwise, we assume he has access to all of his abilities and feats. Seriously, check out his wiki page and check out every match he's been in and time stop + Genie always comes up. And if speed is equalized, Trunks is screwed.
> 
> should.



Time Stop is Over Rated, it really is. Genie is Also Over rated. Sora should rely on his on power and strength to defeat an opponent.

Sora wins

Although I should say Genie Wins.


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## cnorwood (Aug 21, 2010)

isnt this the free genie, so he cant grant wishes anymore, if im wrong please tell me 1 time he granted a wish when he was free, casual ki blast rapes the keyblade user


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> isnt this the free genie, so he cant grant wishes anymore, if im wrong please tell me 1 time he granted a wish when he was free, casual ki blast rapes the keyblade user



When he was a regular Genie, he was forced to make wishes. But the power is still his to begin with.


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## cnorwood (Aug 21, 2010)

but he still didnt grant wishes right


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## DemonFoxSlayer (Aug 21, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> but he still didnt grant wishes right



I believe he still can? Maybe? I dont know.


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Aug 21, 2010)

So through speed equalization and stupid gameplay moves, a skyscraper buster is capable of taking on a planet buster?


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

First of all, he's a block slicer.

Sky scraper projectiles make up for  block busting though

Second of all it's how you play it.
There's no weak verse, only weak imaginations.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

DemonFoxSlayer said:


> I believe he still can? Maybe? I dont know.



Well since Sora and Genie are buddies, he could just ask him. Just like Aladdin in the series since Genie is not bound in the TV series.


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## Omnirix (Aug 21, 2010)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> So through speed equalization and stupid gameplay moves, a skyscraper buster is capable of taking on a planet buster?



Its all because of Genie. Though I have doubts that Movie Genie and KH Genie are the same.


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## cnorwood (Aug 21, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Well since Sora and Genie are buddies, he could just ask him. Just like Aladdin in the series since Genie is not bound in the TV series.



1 wish level feat that aladin asked genie? i have only seen him do his transformations that he did when he was still enslaved. im pretty sure he cant do all his genie stuff anymore, since he didnt do it


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## Knight (Aug 21, 2010)

basch71 said:


> We went over this before, unless OP states otherwise, we assume he has access to all of his abilities and feats. Seriously, check out his wiki page and check out every match he's been in and time stop + Genie always comes up. And if speed is equalized, Trunks is screwed.
> 
> should.



The fights didn't take into account he lost that ability. as for Genie and Sora combo  Genie been doing that by himself in a game play vid that was shown earlier.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

that was in KHI. In kingdom hearts II Genie no longer uses any of the classical FF spells.


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## Narcissus (Aug 21, 2010)

This thread is a huge mess.



Tranquil Fury said:


> Could it be timestop is just gameplay only or is it a canon ability referenced somewhere? I will not argue if so.



No. Magic is seen several times throughout the cutscenes. There is no real argument against Sora having acess to his stop spell.



cnorwood said:


> isnt this the free genie, so he cant grant wishes anymore



He doesn't have to grant them anymore. He is free to use his powers however he sees fit. It's the reason he chooses to help Sora as well as Aladdin.

--

Genie is the only answer Sora would have. He cannot personally harm Trunks. But he would be killed by Trunks before Genie could be used effectively. Sora cannot block any of Trunks' attacks. He would be killed.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

Well, no, Sora can't tank harm or if he does something wide enough,  dodge Trunks

But if he can sumon genie why would he have to "use" him properly? Genie would just defend himself and sora and then ask what's up


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## Narcissus (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Well, no, Sora can't tank harm or if he does something wide enough,  dodge Trunks
> 
> But if he can sumon genie why would he have to "use" him properly? Genie would just defend himself and sora and then ask what's up



Because in the time it takes Sora to summon Genie, Trunks would have fired a blast with a large enough AoE to kill Sora before Genie could defend him.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2010)

KHII doesn't really take much time to summon genie, he simply.. shows.


Either way I'm done with this thread. 'Night


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## Soledad Eterna (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Genie please send trunks to space



There's no outer space or sun in the hyperbolic time chamber, which is the standard battledome for the characters to fight, unless Genie can teleport things to other dimensions.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> There's no outer space or sun in the hyperbolic time chamber, which is the standard battledome for the characters to fight, unless Genie can teleport things to other dimensions.



Which wouldn't be hard since he's a massive reality warper.


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## SasuOna (Aug 21, 2010)

Genie can do anything which is why Sora wins this fight
The only argument so far is how long it takes to summon him and what hes capable of doing.


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## Soledad Eterna (Aug 21, 2010)

If Genie can do evertything why doesn't Sora win every fight instantly ?
And being a reality warper also requieres feats. If Genie hasn't shown to be able to teleport someone to another dimension, then he simply can't do it and we can't assume he can.


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## Heihachi (Aug 21, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> If Genie can do evertything why doesn't Sora win every fight instantly ?
> And being a reality warper also requieres feats. If Genie hasn't shown to be able to teleport someone to another dimension, then he simply can't do it and we can't assume he can.



Genie clearly pointed out in the movie the three things he cannot do. Infact, reviving people, I recall, he stated that he 'didn't like doing it', which hinted that it was more of a personal choice, rather than an impossible task.

Those were his only limits, right out of his own mouth.


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## Soledad Eterna (Aug 21, 2010)

I mean the Genie of the games, not the movies.


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## Heihachi (Aug 21, 2010)

Considering it's the same Genie, yeah, I'd wager it's still a possibility.

The only reason he doesn't use it in the game when you summon him is likely game mechanics, you know, so that you wouldn't just spam him in every fight.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> I mean the Genie of the games, not the movies.



The difference between the normal Disney and KH Disney (barring a few characters) is that KH Disney is fighting Heartless (or Nobodies, or whatever). That's it. Other than that, they still retain whatever abilities they were known for.


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## Judas (Aug 21, 2010)

Trunks fires a planet buster.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

1234567890 said:


> Then why didn't Jafar simply will you out of existence instead of fighting you?



The same can be said for Hades. Considering Sora beat them *3 times*. Either he's just that strong, or they got hit with a nerf bat for the sake of gameplay. And b/c CIS and plot said so. You know the drill.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

1234567890 said:


> They got hit with the nerfbat for more than the sake of gameplay mechanics.
> 
> Besides when had Disney Hades ever demonstrated being able to will someone out of existence? With a genie it's a given they could do it, but in disney they nerfed Hades way down from god status. (though he was still a god technically)



We know with the power displayed with either Genie or Jafar or Hades in the cartoons, they can do it. But the heroes have plot armor from Disney, and heroes *NEVER* die in Disney.


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## SasuOna (Aug 21, 2010)

If they did it in the movies or cartoons than its canon to the disney franchise which means it applicable in the games which use the idea of a multiverse story structure based on all that canon.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

1234567890 said:


> Hades reality warping was on a small level, and IIRC he can only do that in the underworld. Which he did demonstrate reality warping in KH2 (teleportation, an unbreakable barrier, and creating physical copies of himself) It was only because Hercules had the aura of a god that you were able to win. But again it seemed like it was all smallscale. Even in the cartoon. but w/e it's been like 10+ years since I saw the disney hercules.



In KH2, Sora was assisted by Herc. He still kicked his ass in KH1 and COM w/o his help. Sora, going around kicking Disney cosmics asses since 2002. 

Hades' reality warping is not limited to the Underworld, he just has the home field advantage.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

1234567890 said:


> Except for the fact that all the FF characters were nerfed with a nerf tree. Also saying that KH is canon to disney is impossible since it is a crossover of FF and disney. It's like saying Crossedge is canon to Ar Tonelico, Mana Khemia, Disgaea, Darkstalkers, and Attelier Iris



KH characters are canon to KH. Disney multiverse is canon to Disney.



> Has hades demonstrated large scale reality warping when not in the underworld, if so feats please. It makes since why you could beat him in KH1 since you did not fight him in the underworld (this is assuming what I say is correct which is consistent)



Christ, it's been years since I've seen the movie and the TV series but I do remember whipping stuff out of thin air in the movie. You might wanna get back to me on that one, I barely remember the gist of it but I only remember doing crazy stuff.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 21, 2010)

This thread was hit with the stupid bat.


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## Piekage (Aug 21, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Genie would just defend himself and sora and then ask what's up



When has Genie ever done that? Not arguing that Genie couldn't, but he just let Sora do his thing and never bothered to defend him in the games. Unless Genie's informed beforehand that a planet buster's coming his way, why would his reaction or behavior be any different than usual?

A question I've been wanting to ask. With equalized speed, which character is buffed/debuffed? For example, hypothetically speaking, in a Sonic vs Tifa fight w/ equal speed, is Sonic brought down to Tifa's level or Tifa bumped up to Sonic's speed? I ask because some characters obviously wouldn't be able to handle using the speed of thier opponent; I doubt Tifa's even fought as fast as Sonic has, so wouldn't giving her such speed be to her disadvantage? Same with Sonic; fighting so slowly would obviously effect his usual fighting style in battle.


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## The777Man (Aug 21, 2010)

All Sora has that can win this fight is Genie. Other than that, it's a stomp of huge proportions.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 21, 2010)

The777Man said:


> All Sora has that can win this fight is Genie. Other than that, it's a stomp of huge proportions.



More or less, this.


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## Belly Ranks (Aug 22, 2010)

He can and will die before he gets to make that wish.

And hasn't anyone ever argued Genie's ability in the KH series?

Outside he grants wishes yes, outside in the KH verse for example he can't, he can only attack outright.

KH's version of Genie isn't a ace in the hole for Sora to win here.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

Belly Ranks said:


> He can and will die before he gets to make that wish.
> 
> And hasn't anyone ever argued Genie's ability in the KH series?
> 
> ...



He's granted wishes in KH as well. And by word of God, Disney character's feats from their own canon are still usable and it was perfectly acceptable by OBD. Genie comes up in Sora matches. I don't know why this is started to be questioned.


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## Belly Ranks (Aug 22, 2010)

I've played KH2, Chain of Memories and 352/2, I don't recall him granting wishes to SORA.

And the cannonocity is limited to the series that person is in.

Its like Cell showing up in Naruto and only being able to building bust, that's not canon cell, its Naruto's "canon" version and only that versions abilities are allowed unless otherwise stated.


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## Judas (Aug 22, 2010)

Belly Ranks said:


> I've played KH2, Chain of Memories and 352/2, I don't recall him granting wishes to SORA.
> 
> And the cannonocity is limited to the series that person is in.
> 
> Its like Cell showing up in Naruto and only being able to building bust, that's not canon cell, its Naruto's "canon" version and only that versions abilities are allowed unless otherwise stated.



Just now figuring out that you play dungeon fighter. The artwork in your set put my mind in overdrive. FAIL! on my part.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

Belly Ranks said:


> I've played KH2, Chain of Memories and 352/2, I don't recall him granting wishes to SORA.
> 
> And the cannonocity is limited to the series that person is in.
> 
> Its like Cell showing up in Naruto and only being able to building bust, that's not canon cell, its Naruto's "canon" version and only that versions abilities are allowed unless otherwise stated.



That didn't stop Sora for getting a win on Dante b/c of Genie. And the win was placed on his wiki.

should.

And Genie's canon is Aladdin. Even then, his wish granting powers was still used in KH1.



> Genie's lamp was first discovered by Aladdin in the Cave of Wonders. He planned to use his three wishes to help Jasmine  and then win her heart, but all of his wishes ended up being wasted on getting him and his friends out of trouble. The first wish was spent on getting rid of a Heartless attack and the second one to rescue Jasmine from Jafar. Eventually, Iago steals Genie's lamp and gives it to Jafar, who forces Genie to show Jafar the Keyhole of Agrabah and assisting him in fighting Sora, Donald, Goofy  and Aladdin. After Jafar is defeated, Aladdin wishes Genie free from his lamp prison. He then becomes a Summon for Sora. Unlike many of the other Summons, he does so of his own free will instead of being summoned from a gem.



And he used his powers after he was freed in KH2



> Genie has much less screen time in the second game. When the party reaches Agrabah, they discover Genie has gone off to see the world along with Carpet. He misses most of the action, but arrives near the end of Sora's first visit and disturbs Pete, who tries to free Jafar from his lamp. Aside from that the only notable achievements Genie does is clearing out a sandstorm for Sora and fixing Agrabah after the Jafar's destruction. He seems to have somewhat more ego here than in the first game, as he complains that one lousy sandstorm is just too easy and that he didn't get to help in the battle against Jafar. Genie once again becomes a summon partner for Sora once the Lamp Charm is obtained. His newest feature is copying Sora's Drive forms and wielding his own copy of the Keyblade.





EDIT:

I checked tons of interviews, and about the Disney characters, Square wasn't to change anything about them that wasn't already in their respected cartoons.


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## Skywalker (Aug 22, 2010)

Trunks can easily crush planet annihilating Androids, the fuck is Sora going to do?


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## Belly Ranks (Aug 22, 2010)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> Just now figuring out that you play dungeon fighter. The artwork in your set put my mind in overdrive. FAIL! on my part.


Why yes, I do play DFO.


basch71 said:


> That didn't stop Sora for getting a win on Dante b/c of Genie. And the win was placed on his wiki.
> 
> RIGHT HERE
> 
> ...



Genie hasn't shown he can grant wishes for Sora, sure he still has his powers if so be the case if they truly left them as they were, but that just solidifies the point, Sora is NOT his master Aladdin is, he's not granting him anything and the only for of combat support he's shown is wielding a keyblade and fighting by Sora's side going H2H.

Genie gets summoned, tries to fight like Sora and they both eat a planet buster.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 22, 2010)

Why does this even need discussion? Even with speed equalized, Trunks launches a single blast that decimates a large portion of the planet he's on, Sora would barely have time to think about whats happening.


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## Banhammer (Aug 22, 2010)

Belly Ranks you need better grasp at what constitutes game mechanics.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

> Genie hasn't shown he can grant wishes for Sora, sure he still has his powers if so be the case if they truly left them as they were, but that just solidifies the point, Sora is NOT his master Aladdin is, he's not granting him anything and the only for of combat support he's shown is wielding a keyblade and fighting by Sora's side going H2H.



And yet he helps out Sora (out his own free will) and joins Sora out of his own free will and his powers hasn't diminished. Again, he and Sora are still buddies. He's not a Master/Servant kind of guy.



> Genie gets summoned, tries to fight like Sora and they both eat a planet buster.



More like Genie gets summoned, snaps his fingers and Trunks disappears from the area. Sora's one thing but Trunks has nothing on Genie.


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## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

basch71 said:


> I checked tons of interviews, and about the Disney characters, Square wasn't to change anything about them that wasn't already in their respected cartoons.



They did a shitty job of that, it seems.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> They did a shitty job of that, it seems.



One of the interview questions that usually comes up is that how much freedom did they have when it came to the Disney characters. Nomura was like Disney gave us a strict guideline on not to change and add anything that wasn't already in the cartoons. Such as why Donald uses a wand b/c apparently he used a stick in one episode and b/c Goofy used a shield in the cartoon. That's why you don't see someone like Tarzan running around a sword or something. Everybody has what they have.


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## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

basch71 said:


> One of the interview questions that usually comes up is that how much freedom did they have when it came to the Disney characters. Nomura was like Disney gave us a strict guideline on not to change and add anything that wasn't already in the cartoons. Such as why Donald uses a wand b/c apparently he used a stick in one episode and b/c Goofy used a shield in the cartoon. That's why you don't see someone like Tarzan running around a sword or something. Everybody has what they have.



And Pete's bowling balls and Maleficent's giant floating rock?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> And Pete's bowling balls and Maleficent's giant floating rock?



I remember Pete being a living bowling ball every time you knock his ass around. And I believed Yugioh stolen the giant rock.


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## Belly Ranks (Aug 22, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Belly Ranks you need better grasp at what constitutes game mechanics.



Regardless, Genie doesn't grant Sora wishes, that's just one point of my whole argument your picking on.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 22, 2010)

Belly Ranks said:


> Regardless, Genie doesn't grant Sora wishes, that's just one point of my whole argument your picking on.



it's the one point I wanted to.  Didn't care about the rest because they mostly loose sense after that.
Sora doesn't need to wish if Genie is free, genie just does it.


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## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> it's the one point I wanted to.  Didn't care about the rest because they mostly loose sense after that.
> Sora doesn't need to wish if Genie is free, genie just does it.



Genie was far less powerful in the movies when he was freed.


----------



## Bender (Aug 22, 2010)

Seriously why do people say Trunks will be able to destroy Sora with a planet destroying blast? For all we know Sora can knock it back.


----------



## Thor (Aug 22, 2010)

Bender said:


> Seriously why do people say Trunks will be able to destroy Sora with a planet destroying blast? For all we know Sora can knock it back.



No limits fallacy. 

Has Reflega ever been shown to knock back something ass powerful as a city buster?


----------



## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

After playing KH 2's final boss over again, I really don't think Trunks has much of a chance against Sora. I don't even think speed needs to be normalized considering how Sora practically teleports behind some of his enemies during his reaction commands, and most fights have a reaction command.

I mean, you get hit and smashed with flying skyscrapers, stabbed and forced back atleast a mile towards a dark abyss, get struck with condensed laser beams and taking barely any damage.

I'm considering this to be a level 100 Sora to make it fair, IE; his maximum potential.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> Genie was far less powerful in the movies when he was freed.



It doesn't really change much since he's still way more powerful than what Trunks can deal with. A massive toonforcer like Genie combined with his reality warping powers, and Robin William's voice gives him super strength!


----------



## Piekage (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> After playing KH 2's final boss over again, I really don't think Trunks has much of a chance against Sora. I don't even think speed needs to be normalized considering how Sora practically teleports behind some of his enemies during his reaction commands, and most fights have a reaction command.
> 
> I mean, you get hit and smashed with flying skyscrapers, stabbed and forced back atleast a mile towards a dark abyss, get struck with condensed laser beams and taking barely any damage.
> 
> I'm considering this to be a level 100 Sora to make it fair, IE; his maximum potential.



Trunks curbstomped Freeza and his father like they were infants, and Freeza can tear apart planets in his weakest form.


----------



## predator200 (Aug 22, 2010)

Question:can sora summon genie before trunks blows him sky high?

All trunks needs is 1 second or less to fire a blast,can sora summon genie faster than 1 second?


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## SasuOna (Aug 22, 2010)

Yet none of that matters since speed is equalized. Genie is summoned GG trunks goes flying into space.


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## predator200 (Aug 22, 2010)

SasuOna said:


> Yet none of that matters since speed is equalized. Genie is summoned GG trunks goes flying into space.



Um trunks can still fire a blast in one second.Unless sora can summon genie faster than trunks can fire a blast with speed equalized I dont see sora wining.

So can someone give me a time on how long it takes genie to appear?1 second?10 second?1 minute?how long.


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## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Trunks curbstomped Freeza and his father like they were infants, and Freeza can tear apart planets in his weakest form.



And? Freeza was half machine at that point, and clearly weaker than his original form on Namek. That, and the fact that his father had shown no feats up until that point makes this stomp more or less a young child stabbing to death a cripple and his retarded father.

Past that, I can't remember any more feats of Trunks that were impressive.

Sora became a monster by the end of KH2. I mean, at that point in the game you took out most of Disney's most powerful villains and some of their heroes, not to mention Final Fantasy's.

I consider Sora's speed to be on-par with Trunks. Yes, his running speed is sort of slow, but he has been shown capable of something akin to flash-stepping against opponents that are fast enough to require it.


----------



## predator200 (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> And? Freeza was half machine at that point, and clearly weaker than his original form on Namek. That, and the fact that his father had shown no feats up until that point makes this stomp more or less a young child stabbing to death a cripple and his retarded father.
> 
> Past that, I can't remember any more feats of Trunks that were impressive.
> 
> ...



Freeza fires off continent/moon busting attacks killing sora.Dbz characters arent known for their punching strength but their ki blasts.

So unless sora can survive a city buster let alone something more powerful he dies unless he can summon genie before trunks can fire off a casual blast which takes 1 second or less.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

predator200 said:


> Question:can sora summon genie before trunks blows him sky high?
> 
> All trunks needs is 1 second or less to fire a blast,can sora summon genie faster than 1 second?



Time Stop + Summon Genie combination will do the trick. And since speed is equalized, no blitz. Without those things, honestly, he can't do jack to DBZ characters by himself.


----------



## predator200 (Aug 22, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Time Stop + Summon Genie combination will do the trick. And since speed is equalized, no blitz. Without those things, honestly, he can't do jack to DBZ characters by himself.



Thank you.Thats all I wanted to know.


----------



## SasuOna (Aug 22, 2010)

predator200 said:


> Um trunks can still fire a blast in one second.Unless sora can summon genie faster than trunks can fire a blast with speed equalized I dont see sora wining.
> 
> So can someone give me a time on how long it takes genie to appear?1 second?10 second?1 minute?how long.



Sora is just as fast as trunks and for him to shoot anything less than a planet buster at Sora theres a good chance it can be reflected or dodged. If he deems it necessary to use a planet buster it would take him longer than a second to fire off.
In any case Sora summons Genie who then proceeds to telaport trunks and whatever space he occupying into the sun.


----------



## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

SasuOna said:


> Sora is just as fast as trunks and for him to shoot anything less than a planet buster at Sora theres a good chance it can be reflected or *dodged.*



What the hell does projectile power have to do with projectile speed in DB? Later on you say that a planet buster would take too long, but how would something LESS than a planet buster take longer?

Also, LOL at thinking Sora can reflect a continent buster.


----------



## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

predator200 said:


> Freeza fires off continent/moon busting attacks killing sora.Dbz characters arent known for their punching strength but their ki blasts.
> 
> So unless sora can survive a city buster let alone something more powerful he dies unless he can summon genie before trunks can fire off a casual blast which takes 1 second or less.



Which is why people keep bringing up the reflect spell. I see no reason why it can't deflect something like that. 

Though, I guess I have another goal for tonight; testing what reflect can endure.


----------



## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Which is why people keep bringing up the reflect spell. I see no reason why it can't deflect something like that.



Reflect repels attacks from Hercules, who threw the Rock Titan so high that it was impossible to see for those on the ground.

That's a start. Although still not near enough to survive a city buster.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Which is why people keep bringing up the reflect spell. I see no reason why it can't deflect something like that.
> 
> Though, I guess I have another goal for tonight; testing what reflect can endure.



Gameplay wise, Reflega is broken. Cutscene wise.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6dDoS1hS0[/YOUTUBE]

2:52-3:06

It can take oh so much damage before breaking.


----------



## Bender (Aug 22, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Gameplay wise, Reflega is broken. Cutscene wise.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6dDoS1hS0[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



Okay but I'm talking about deflecting an energy blast not immunizing it using the "reflect" spell. So far the keyblade has not been shown to be unable to deflect any blast.


----------



## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Gameplay wise, Reflega is broken. Cutscene wise.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6dDoS1hS0[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



I ignore most cutscenes when it comes to power in this game. They turn everyone in Kingdom Hearts retarded.


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## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> I ignore most cutscenes when it comes to power in this game. They turn everyone in Kingdom Hearts retarded.



They're more canon than gameplay feats.

Although I don't even think that scene was in the actual game.


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## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> They're more canon than gameplay feats.
> 
> Although I don't even think that scene was in the actual game.



Like Sora getting tired after fighting a handful of nobodies, even though I hadn't lost a point of health, and was easily stomping them? Doing this later with a bunch of heartless as well, even though at that point you could easily be slaughtering them by the thousands through magic alone, while not lifting a finger?

Please, the cutscenes are there to just progress the story by whatever means neccesary. They make all characters look like complete jokes.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 22, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> They're more canon than gameplay feats.
> 
> Although I don't even think that scene was in the actual game.



Well it still proves Reflega still has limitations outside gameplay. Although I'll be waiting on my ass till BBS comes out on September 7th.


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## Knight (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Like Sora getting tired after fighting a handful of nobodies, even though I hadn't lost a point of health, and was easily stomping them? Doing this later with a bunch of heartless as well, even though at that point you could easily be slaughtering them by the thousands through magic alone, while not lifting a finger?
> 
> Please, the cutscenes are there to just progress the story by whatever means neccesary. They make all characters look like complete jokes.



What you do in gameplay isn't canon sense it varies upon player and difficulty that can be changed. Cut sense are generally accepted as true can here. Health bars and such are usally ignored because they don't exist in the story.


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## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

So because Sora has never used magic (that I can think of) in a cutscene, he can't use magic ever?

Wow. Yeah, that's a load of BS.


----------



## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> So because Sora has never used magic (that I can think of) in a cutscene, he can't use magic ever?
> 
> Wow. Yeah, that's a load of BS.



It doesn't quite work like that.

There's a difference between gameplay mechanics that are not story driven and those that are. 

Also, Sora received his magic in a cutscene, if it matters.


----------



## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

Cutscenes always ignore gameplay mechanics. Those gameplay mechanics are VERY important, because a character's full potential is demonstrated in-game.

Cutscenes make what needs to happen, happen. That's all. The game doesn't give a shit about your power if it needs the story to continue.

I, personally, refuse to take cutscenes that make a character retarded and underpowered, seriously.

Besides, you spend more time actually fighting than you do watching the cutscenes. If anything, those cutscenes are less canon because they're what makes the power level unbalanced, especially when it comes to Kingdom Hearts.


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## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Cutscenes always ignore gameplay mechanics. Those gameplay mechanics are VERY important, because a character's full potential is demonstrated in-game.



You don't understand. 

There's a difference between gameplay mechanics like Sora being able to use magic, and gameplay elements like Sora having a drive bar to use his drive forms.

Enemy damage is typically considered one of the most hard to believe aspects of gameplay mechanics. For example, if an enemy is invincible to the plasma beam in Metroid Prime, that doesn't mean that they can survive an infinite amount of heat.



Heihachi said:


> Cutscenes make what needs to happen, happen. That's all. The game doesn't give a shit about your power if it needs the story to continue.



The thing is, the story is above all else in canon. I.E. Sora can die in gameplay. He does not die in the cutscenes (With the obvious exception of his little stint as a Heartless in KH).



Heihachi said:


> I, personally, refuse to take cutscenes that make a character retarded and underpowered, seriously.



Considering the story is supposed to be the main draw in KH...


----------



## Shinkirou (Aug 22, 2010)

Wow, this went on a lot longer than I expected it to.


----------



## K (Aug 22, 2010)

Trunks owns hard.


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## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> You don't understand.
> 
> There's a difference between gameplay mechanics like Sora being able to use magic, and gameplay elements like Sora having a drive bar to use his drive forms.
> 
> ...



Okay, fine,  but there's also flaws in all that as well.

Because if you end a fight in a drive form, Sora still retains the drive form into the next cutscene.  This is particularly jarring when used in one of the last cutscenes of the game, which is long enough to where the drive should have ended long before the cutscene does. Does that mean it can actually last that long? No, because in the game when you're fighting, where your strength -really- matters, it's capped and limited.

Also, the metroid arguement? Perhaps, but this would be considered a 'feat' here in the battledome because it's been shown capable of ignoring such an attack. It would be considered against an opponent who had a similar type of heat attack.

Here, let me give you another example of when cutscenes become bollocks; Fallout 3. I don't know if you've played it, but one of the addons called 'The Pitt' takes your character and plants them in the middle of a slave complex. On the way to said complex, you can shoot down the guards standing infront of one of the large gates and continue on. 

The next door you open, you're forced into a cutscene and will be knocked unconcious by a group of pathetic slavers who are armed weaker than the previous ones you just killed, who proceed to literally punch you until you black out, with you remaining completely still like a tard. That wouldn't be such a wallbanger if it wasn't for the fact that, at this point in the game, you can easily be a level 30 literal walking nuke wearing full-body power armor that almost negates physical damage. Knocking you out should cause you to explode and kill everyone around you.

Does it happen? No. Because the story needs to go in a certain direction, and it doesn't care how strong you are. That's why cutscene nerfs are just dumb to take into consideration. They provide the biggest wallbangers in the realm of video games.

Also, Kingdom Heart's plot is so confusing that even Ansem the Wise doesn't know what the hell is going on anymore. I'd say the story is a little farfetched at this point.


----------



## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Also, Kingdom Heart's plot is so confusing that even Ansem the Wise doesn't know what the hell is going on anymore. I'd say the story is a little farfetched at this point.



KH2 was such a fucking horrible game.

God, the piss they took on the original was hilarious. "The guy you thought was Ansem? He wasn't. This other guy is Ansem, while the guy who called himself Ansem? That was Xeanhort."


----------



## Belly Ranks (Aug 22, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> it's the one point I wanted to.  Didn't care about the rest because they mostly loose sense after that.
> Sora doesn't need to wish if Genie is free, genie just does it.



Your still missing the point, I'm not arguing Genie's liberty or not, I'm arguing his effectiveness in battle in the KH2 storyline. KH2 storyline had him weakened from his trip.

He choose to help Sora in what little he can by taking on the bastard limit/drive version of himself he did. This isn't a full powered Genie and even in his weakened state, Sora was not Genies's master he can't get Genie to grant any wish he might need. 

Which brings it back to the point that the KH genie isn't the "same" Genie out of the Aladdin story line. He cant do all those things he had shown the KH genie got nerfed. Nerfed to the point he had a time limit and couldn't take down foes which are clearly fodder compared to Sora's opponent  Trunks.

@ C.Hook

Storyline wise I was confused, I had to play it over 4 times, with me understand what the fuck was happening on the 4th run. Gameplay was a hell of a lot better though. Hands down.


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## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> KH2 was such a fucking horrible game.
> 
> God, the piss they took on the original was hilarious. "The guy you thought was Ansem? He wasn't. This other guy is Ansem, while the guy who called himself Ansem? That was Xeanhort."



I thought the combat was really awesome, but the story made me wanna gag.

So, I can agree with that.


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## C. Hook (Aug 22, 2010)

The combat would have been better if they actually made the common enemies difficult. 

Instead we got even more "XXXXXXXXXXXTriangleXXXXX..."

The boss battles were fun, but often more style over substance (Xemnas, I'm looking at you).


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## SHM (Aug 22, 2010)

Ugh! Fanboys using gameplay-mechanics to wank their favorite character's power-level. 



basch71 said:


> Genie offered his power IIRC in KH1. But his feats would go back to the movies and TV show since he's from Aladdin.



Yeah, the same way KH Sephiroth's feats would go back to the FFVII games and movie, since he is from FFVII, right? 

...Oh, wait.


----------



## Belly Ranks (Aug 22, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> The combat would have been better if they actually made the common enemies difficult.
> 
> Instead we got even more "XXXXXXXXXXXTriangleXXXXX..."
> 
> The boss battles were fun, but often more style over substance (Xemnas, I'm looking at you).



The only battle of skill was probably when he faced Sephiroth IMO.

And I remember before buying the game they said, YOU CAN FIGHT 1000 HEARTLESS AT ONCE!!!

Bullshit, they only had maybe 20-40 heartless you could actively fight at a time. And Triangle was spammed hard. I felt like I got robbed.


----------



## Heihachi (Aug 22, 2010)

SHM said:


> Ugh! Fanboys using gameplay-mechanics to wank their favorite character's power-level.



I actually think Sora's a terrible mary-sue insert.

But atleast his speed within those gameplay mechanics remain mostly consistant.


----------



## Bender (Aug 22, 2010)

Unless someone can prove that Sora's keyblade doesn't have enough strength to deflect Trunk's planet destroying energy blast he wins. Till then it's Sora's victory.


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## Enclave (Aug 22, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Time Stop + Genie would you please teleport trunks to outter space?



That would likely fall under the rule of directly killing somebody wouldn't it?  Genie shouldn't be allowed to do that.

Anyways, I'm glad speed was equalised because Sora's speed is such a argued topic here.  You can make a case for him being FAR faster than Dragonball characters if his 1,000 laser feat is accepted and if it isn't accepted then he's still hyper-sonic.

Anyways, Trunks won't use a planet busting attack since it would be a suicide move as Trunks requires a breathable atmosphere to live.

That said, Sora has never shown a durability feat where he could withstand Trunks stronger moves, not even close.

However by that same token, Dragonball characters while they have exceptional energy defenses, their physical defenses are significantly lower.  Sora does stand a chance at killing Trunks if he manages to get into melee combat with him.  However if Trunks can keep his distance and utilise his more powerful energy attacks then Sora is going to lose.

Due to Trunks being able to attack from a distance with attacks that can 1 hit Sora, he's the obvious winner here.  But like I said earlier, there is the possibility that Sora could win if they get in melee combat.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 23, 2010)

> Sora was not Genies's master he can't get Genie to grant any wish he might need.


Even though Genie offered his help twice in KH1 & KH2. Again, he helps out b/c they're friends, and Genie doesn't really care about a master/servant relationship. Not that it really matters in this match since he just pops out Genie and gets the deed done.



> Which brings it back to the point that the KH genie isn't the "same" Genie out of the Aladdin story line.



Cameo but powers is the same.



> He cant do all those things he had shown the KH genie got nerfed.



Even though he done his wish granting powers before. And in KH2 he eliminated a gigantic sandstorm that was blocking the way to the Cave of Wonders. Genie considered this so trivially easy that it was boring.



> Nerfed to the point he had a time limit and couldn't take down foes which are clearly fodder compared to Sora's opponent Trunks.



Did you just put in gameplay limitations as a point to use? 



> Yeah, the same way KH Sephiroth's feats would go back to the FFVII games and movie, since he is from FFVII, right?
> 
> ...Oh, wait.



Sora: Yeah! How was that?
Sephiroth: *dusts off his shoulder* I admit you have some skill. But the only one that can defeat me is Cloud.



Also yes, obviously his canon feats are usable since KH Sephiroth has only his gameplay abilities.

If you wanna add, Sephiroth does Octaslash officially in Crisis Core but done it first in KH1. He did teleportation in KH2, but it was done officially in Crisis Core.



> That would likely fall under the rule of directly killing somebody wouldn't it? Genie shouldn't be allowed to do that.



Not really, he's just teleporting him to a dangerous environment which would technically be indirect.


----------



## C. Hook (Aug 23, 2010)

basch71 said:


> If you wanna add, Sephiroth does Octaslash officially in Crisis Core but done it first in KH1. He did teleportation in KH2, but it was done officially in Crisis Core.



You do realize that makes absolutely no sense in FFVII or Crisis Core's storyline, right?


----------



## SHM (Aug 23, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Sora: Yeah! How was that?
> Sephiroth: *dusts off his shoulder* I admit you have some skill. But the only one that can defeat me is Cloud.



How does Sora failing to beat Sephiroth proves that KH Sephiroth have all the powers of the original one? WTF dude.



> If you wanna add, Sephiroth does Octaslash officially in Crisis Core but done it first in KH1. He did teleportation in KH2, but it was done officially in Crisis Core.



He never did Octoslash in KH(a similar attack perhaps, but not Octoslash), and the first time he showed teleportation was in the _ original FFVII_(remember that game? ).


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 23, 2010)

Bender said:


> Unless someone can prove that Sora's keyblade doesn't have enough strength to deflect Trunk's planet destroying energy blast he wins. Till then it's Sora's victory.


No, you have to prove it does. and what the hell good would deflecting it do, it would still blow up the planet.


----------



## Enclave (Aug 23, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> No those 2 are complete in the beginning. Axel's sacrifice somehow "reawaken" Roxas like Xemnas said. Then those 2 have a mental showdown in which Sora won.



Actually, Banhammer is right on this.  While they were 1 person, Roxas wasn't fully merged with Sora.  Sora didn't have access to his power yet.  You'll note that right after Roxas and Sora fight at TWTNW Sora's feats suddenly get MUCH better.  That was because he finally became complete, Roxas held half of Sora's power and only then was it returned to him, once Roxas accepted Sora.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 23, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> You do realize that makes absolutely no sense in FFVII or Crisis Core's storyline, right?



Octaslash would make sense since Zack has it and he was trained under Sephiroth & Angeal. His teleportation was done in gameplay.

My point being there are borrowed elements. And it's Square's game and it's gone retconned to hell so make what little sense it has (if it still does).


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Aug 23, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> KH2 was such a fucking horrible game.
> 
> God, the piss they took on the original was hilarious. "The guy you thought was Ansem? He wasn't. This other guy is Ansem, while the guy who called himself Ansem? That was Xeanhort."



It's also very nice of them to give us a rogue team in Organization XIII only to have most of them be the most bland and unimaginative antagonists ever.

"but wait" some fanboys say. "They do have characters. You just need to play the side games."

And I say to that "fuck you fanboy". KH2 came out first and that's where we learn about who these characters are. If Square doesn't care to give tham any depth or to make them interesting at their introduction, why should I bother to shell out money for a side story game?


----------



## SHM (Aug 23, 2010)

Hell, I remember there was an interview where the creators said that all non-original characters that appeared in KH, were all alternate versions of their original selves.


----------



## Enclave (Aug 23, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Gameplay wise, Reflega is broken. Cutscene wise.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6dDoS1hS0[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



That spell doesn't actually look like Reflect.  It's far more likely that spell is Protect.  For one thing, Reflect in the KH verse seems to be a self only spell.  You're unable to target party members with it.  Hell, you'll note that Donald doesn't even seem able to use it on Sora, which further supports this.



C. Hook said:


> They're more canon than gameplay feats.
> 
> Although I don't even think that scene was in the actual game.



That scene from what I've heard actually is in Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep.


----------



## SHM (Aug 23, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Is there no end to this faggotry? Trunks kills Sora and anyone who isn't a wanker know it.



What he said.


----------



## Logical-Master (Aug 23, 2010)

Sora for the win.

You have to remember that Sora is the video game equivalent to Squirrel girl. Sometimes, he is around the level of Tarzan, Mulan, Jack Sparrow or Aladdin. Other times, he can hang with Hercules and Hades, shrug off Meteors from Sephiroth and even FTL blitz around Xehenhort. It is on this basis that citing strength/speed feats in a Sora vs thread is utterly pointless as he is only strong/fast as he needs to be to win a fight (one could argue that this is the keyblade's magic at work); we have to use something more static in order to make an accurate comparison.

I say strategy/skill. This went out the window in the days of Dragonball as the only strategy there is in DBZ in mindlessly punching over and over again with the same animation and shooting energy blast (all which seem to have the same effect). On the other hand, Sora creates a new technique in just about every fight on the fly. Thus, in a battle, DBZ wanking aside, Sora takes this. It'd be a good fight though.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 23, 2010)

SHM said:


> How does Sora failing to beat Sephiroth proves that KH Sephiroth have all the powers of the original one? WTF dude.



He never fights at full anyway and if he did, oh god Bizarro & Safer.

Anyway, the one's who have their official feats confirmed are the Disney characters. The FF characters just have some abilities, like Cloud's Omnislash, Squall's Blasting Zone & Fire magic, and Tifa's Final Heaven. Besides it's a cameo for them and they have little to no impact in the KH story, compared to the Disney characters who do.



> He never did Octoslash in KH(a similar attack perhaps, but not Octoslash), and the first time he showed teleportation was in the _ original FFVII_(remember that game? ).



It was Octaslash, although it wasn't named that but it was considered a variation of Omnislash (which it is). As for teleportation, Sephiroth himself never done it in VII. The one running around for 80% of the game was Jenova who done most of the crap barring Sephiroth in flashbacks. Sephiroth has done however flight and TK onscreen though.



> Hell, I remember there was an interview where the creators said that all non-original characters that appeared in KH, were all alternate versions of their original selves.



False, the only ones that are alternate are the FF characters. The Disney characters were not to be altered by order of Disney and Nomura had to follow these guidelines.


----------



## C. Hook (Aug 23, 2010)

Just because KH and FF Sephiroth borrow elements from each other doesn't make them the same power. Galaxy Force Starscream borrows elements from G1 Starscream, and the difference in power there is huge.



Enclave said:


> That scene from what I've heard actually is in Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep.



The scene was the TRAILER for Birth by Sleep (Or true ending of KH2).

I don't think that specific scene happened in Birth by Sleep.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> And? Freeza was half machine at that point, and clearly weaker than his original form on Namek. That, and the fact that his father had shown no feats up until that point makes this stomp more or less a young child stabbing to death a cripple and his retarded father.



If Trunks can tank an attack that can bust a planet, what makes you think that Sora, who's known physical limit is a Skyscraper, is capable of damaging Trunks on his own?

Freeza wasn't nearly as weak as his first form when he landed on Earth. Piccolo and Vegeta were capable of fighting Freeza's second form, who had a PL of a million, and yet when he arrived on Earth everyone capable of sensing him shat their pants.

King Cold has no feats persay, but serveral characters compared his PL to Freeza's, so he's probably capable of the same feats as Freeza.



> Unless someone can prove that Sora's keyblade doesn't have enough strength to deflect Trunk's planet destroying energy blast he wins. Till then it's Sora's victory.



Stating that Sora can deflect a Planet Buster puts the burden of proof on you.

Genie doesn't know Sora's gonna get hit with a planet buster or large AoE and has never defended him in battle. So I'd say Trunks takes it under that circumstance.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> this is retarded


**


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 23, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> Just because KH and FF Sephiroth borrow elements from each other doesn't make them the same power. Galaxy Force Starscream borrows elements from G1 Starscream, and the difference in power there is huge.



Meh, the only thing here is that Square can alter their own shit but can't do the same with Disney cuz you know, not theirs in the first place.


----------



## Enclave (Aug 23, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> The scene was the TRAILER for Birth by Sleep (Or true ending of KH2).
> 
> I don't think that specific scene happened in Birth by Sleep.



No, I'm saying that I'm fairly sure that actual scene happens in the actual game KH: BBS.  I don't feel like looking it up right now but I'm fairly sure that I read in an interview with Nomura that that scene is in the game and I'm sure I could go to a place like Gamefaqs and ask one of the people who's played the Japanese version of the game if it's actually there, but I'd rather not know for total certainty as I don't want the game spoiled.


----------



## Heihachi (Aug 23, 2010)

Piekage said:


> If Trunks can tank an attack that can bust a planet, what makes you think that Sora, who's known physical limit is a Skyscraper, is capable of damaging Trunks on his own?
> 
> Freeza wasn't nearly as weak as his first form when he landed on Earth. Piccolo and Vegeta were capable of fighting Freeza's second form, who had a PL of a million, and yet when he arrived on Earth everyone capable of sensing him shat their pants.
> 
> King Cold has no feats persay, but serveral characters compared his PL to Freeza's, so he's probably capable of the same feats as Freeza.



Said skyscrapers were moving several miles an hour, considering they were thrown by some kind of nobody-mecha thing that the last boss seemed to be piloting. I'd wager several hundred miles an hour, to be honest.

Also, I never said that was his -limit-. Infact, he's incredibly capable of shrugging off the damage from that attack.

Besides, as I mentioned before, and as a video posted earlier pointed out, Sora has reflexes akin to flash stepping from bleach. There's no reason why he couldn't just avoid the planet buster, since you all seem to be so stuck on a suicide manuever on Trunks' part.

Also, power levels are bunk.


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## Logical-Master (Aug 23, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Stating that Sora can deflect a Planet Buster puts the burden of proof on you.


Well since I'm bored . . .

"Planet busting" in often embellished by fans. The fact of the matter is that these characters use attacks at their strongest all the time without destroying the planet. It doesn't even become a worry that they can 'accidentally' destroy the planet until late in the Cell saga. The only logical explanation for this "inconsistency" is that DBZ character's method of destroying planets revolves around them disrupting the core (be it on purpose or accident) rather than just flat out destroying it. This explanation puts things into perspective, explains why they can even fight on the planet in the first place without having to worry about a casual blast hitting the earth's crust, explains why the Z-senshi had trouble blowing up a freaking DOOR in the Android saga, sums up how kamehameha of Cell could potentially destroy all the planets in the solar system, explains Namek's destruction, amongst so many other instances of ~(planetbusting) blast. Gotta love occam's razor. Now the top tier characters in Marvel? They are the REAL planet busters.

What's the point? Trunks isn't as powerful as you say in the first place (not that it matters since evidence shows that the keyblade would just put Sora on Trunks level anyway).


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> this is retarded



I like how this quote is being justified with each post


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## Piekage (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Said skyscrapers were move several miles an hour, considering they were thrown by some kind of nobody-mecha thing that the last boss seemed to be piloting. I'd wager several hundred miles an hour, to be honest.
> 
> Also, I never said that was his -limit-. Infact, he's incredibly capable of shrugging off the damage from that attack.



Which is impressive, but surviving a Planet Buster and dishing out the same amount of damage is much more so. No matter how fast that building was going, I sincerely doubt it was moving fast enough to bust a planet.


Heihachi said:


> Besides, as I mentioned before, and as a video posted earlier pointed out, Sora has reflexes akin to flash stepping from bleach. There's no reason why he couldn't just avoid the planet buster, since you all seem to be so stuck on a suicide manuever on Trunks' part.
> 
> Also, power levels are bunk.



Speed is equalized.

The standard battledome arena is the Hyperbolic Time Chamber or a similar arena unless otherwise stated, so it's not suicidal. Besides, Sora would be dead long before he would anyway so it doesn't matter. Sora's never traveled the distance necessary to avoid the large AoE Trunks can dish out with his flashstep-like movements.

Your opinion on power levels is irrelevant, no matter how correct.


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## Bender (Aug 23, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> No, you have to prove it does. and what the hell good would deflecting it do, it would still blow up the planet.



Deflecting the planet busting attack? Umm let's see it would destroy Trunks. Sora calls Genie and he can send him somewhere safely while Trunks is left to die with the planet.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Said skyscrapers were moving several miles an hour, considering they were thrown by some kind of nobody-mecha thing that the last boss seemed to be piloting. I'd wager several hundred miles an hour, to be honest.
> 
> Also, I never said that was his -limit-. Infact, he's incredibly capable of shrugging off the damage from that attack.
> 
> ...


 He's gonna dodge a planet buster?
What will he do if it goes off 3 meters behind him?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 23, 2010)

Bender said:


> Deflecting the planet busting attack? Umm let's see it would destroy Trunks. Sora calls Genie and he can send him somewhere safely while Trunks is left to die with the planet.


He still can't deflect the attack.
They aren't fighting on a planet anyway. 
that would be a bfr anyway.


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## Bender (Aug 23, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> He's gonna dodge a planet buster?
> What will he do if it goes off 3 meters behind him?



Call genie and leave the planet.

Trunks tries to follow him Genie takes him back to explosion


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## Heihachi (Aug 23, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Which is impressive, but surviving a Planet Buster and dishing out the same amount of damage is much more so. No matter how fast that building was going, I sincerely doubt it was moving fast enough to bust a planet.
> 
> 
> Speed is equalized.
> ...



The OP does not say speed is equalized.

You're right. I do doubt as well that the skyscraper can bust a planet. But I also don't remember anything of Trunks' being able to bust a planet either. 

I mean, the term 'planet buster' has been spammed so much in this thread, and yet the only people in DB who I remember actually blowing up a planet was Kid Buu, Cell (while self-destructing) and Freiza. Until he actually -does- blow up a planet, he isn't capable of it.

But if he did, please feel free to show me. It has been a while since I re-read DBZ.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Freiza



guess who Trunks is stronger than

I'll give you three guesses


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## Logical-Master (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I like how this quote is being justified with each post


I don't suppose you have a reason for being here then, no?


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## Heihachi (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> guess who Trunks is stronger than
> 
> I'll give you three guesses



And?

Trunks cut him in half with a sword. He still did not blow up a planet. Hell, he didn't even use any Ki attacks on him if I recall.

That's like killing someone wielding a rocket launcher with a pistol and claiming that the pistol can do the same amount of damage as the rocket launcher.


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## Bender (Aug 23, 2010)

Even if Trunks does have any planet buster attacks it takes like 5 min for it to go off. When Kid Buu destroyed Earth it took a whole fucking 2 min for it to fully sink in the Earth's core and destroy the planet. You people are overrating DBZ combatants planet busting capabilities.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> And?
> 
> Trunks cut him in half with a sword. He still did not blow up a planet. Hell, he didn't even use any Ki attacks on him if I recall.
> 
> That's like killing someone wielding a rocket launcher with a pistol and claiming that the pistol can do the same amount of damage as the rocket launcher.



oh god, they just keep on coming

tell me, do you read Dragonball with your eyes closed


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 23, 2010)

I should put this plain and simple. Since speed is equalized, Time Stop + Genie is the only use of winning. Genie's powers are still active regardless and was used in cutscenes. Anything about Genie not following Sora's orders has no burden in this match. 

However, by himself, Sora has no goddamn way of winning against Trunks since he's completely outclassed.

If it wasn't for the Time Stop + Genie combo (which Genie was perfectly acceptable by OBD in other matches), as well as speed equaled, this match would've ended on the first page with Trunks in a stomp.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 23, 2010)

It never ends.


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## Omnirix (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> And?
> 
> Trunks cut him in half with a sword. He still did not blow up a planet. Hell, he didn't even use any Ki attacks on him if I recall.
> 
> That's like killing someone wielding a rocket launcher with a pistol and claiming that the pistol can do the same amount of damage as the rocket launcher.



Frieza tanked the explosion of Planet Namek even at death's bed . And Trunks is much stronger than him. Its a testament to his strength that he can cut someone with planetary durability, not Sora's. When did Sora did such a thing?



Bender said:


> Even if Trunks does have any planet buster attacks it takes like 5 min for it to go off. When Kid Buu destroyed Earth it took a whole fucking 2 min for it to fully sink in the Earth's core and destroy the planet. You people are overrating DBZ combatants planet busting capabilities.


2 mins? Where did you get such numbers? And using anime here isn't legit due to style over substance.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

this has to be one elaborate attempt at trolling 

I mean, you'd have to be completely braindead in order to not notice something that's obviously meant to show one character being completely superior to another


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## Heihachi (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> oh god, they just keep on coming
> 
> tell me, do you read Dragonball with your eyes closed



You know, you're talking alot of shit for someone who hasn't really made any decent points at all.

Trunks killed Freiza who had been previously destroyed by Goku, now surviving only by cybernetics, with a sword. Do you also think Trunks can destroy a planet by swinging his sword? I'm curious.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Charcan said:


> It never ends.



I think I just got a taste of what you go through in some Saint Seiya threads


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 23, 2010)

Bender said:


> Call genie and leave the planet.
> 
> Trunks tries to follow him Genie takes him back to explosion




He's gonna figure all that out as the explosion's enveloping him?
Don't you realize how phenomenally stupid this sounds?
He can't reflect something that powerful get it that through your thick head.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I think I just got a taste of what you go through in some Saint Seiya threads



Only if this thread was stickied, you left the boards for several months then came back to see the same old cats spouting off the same old bullshit to each other with no end in sight.

But this is still pretty bad.


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## Bender (Aug 23, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Frieza tanked the explosion of Planet Namek even at death's bed . And Trunks is much stronger than him. Its a testament to his strength that he can cut someone with planetary durability, not Sora's. When did Sora did such a thing?



He cut skyscrapers launched at him by KHII's Xenmas are you saying that Sora can't harm him with the keyblade?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> You know, you're talking alot of shit for someone who hasn't really made any decent points at all.



this is like asking me to prove whether or not water is wet

my time is better spent increasing my post count


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## Bender (Aug 23, 2010)

> He's gonna figure all that out as the explosion's enveloping him?



Goku and Vegeta did something similar when Kid Buu destroyed Earth... 

What the fuck is the matter with you?



> He can't reflect something that powerful get it that through your thick head.



*Deflect*.... 


Not reflect. 

Unless his keyblade has been shown to not be able to do something like that please post up a video. I implore you. There isn't anything the keyblades can't do.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 23, 2010)

Bender said:


> Goku and Vegeta did something similar when Kid Buu destroyed Earth...
> 
> What the fuck is the matter with you?
> 
> ...


You have to prove it, the burden of proof is on you.
Goku and vegeta are faster than Sora. 
Deflect? whatever.


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## Heihachi (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> this is like asking me to prove whether or not water is wet
> 
> my time is better spent increasing my post count



That's fine, I realize you think this is a stupid thing to argue about. Then again, so is the whole concept of the Battledome if you want to get technical.

But some of us are enjoying this debate of ours, so there's a reason why your post about how retarded this is was ignored.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Charcan said:


> Only if this thread was stickied, you left the boards for several months then came back to see the same old cats spouting off the same old bullshit to each other with no end in sight.
> 
> But this is still pretty bad.



this thread still serves one useful purpose

which is Post Count +1


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## Logical-Master (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> this is like asking me to prove whether or not water is wet
> 
> my time is better spent increasing my post count


LOL. It always makes me chuckle when people get uppity about a bullshit discussion about fictional characters. Gives us nerds a bad name. Lighten up.


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## Piekage (Aug 23, 2010)

> The OP does not say speed is equalized.



Really? huh. Could have sworn several people mentioned it was.



Logical-Master said:


> Well since I'm bored . . .
> 
> "Planet busting" in often embellished by fans. The fact of the matter is that these characters use attacks at their strongest all the time without destroying the planet. It doesn't even become a worry that they can 'accidentally' destroy the planet until late in the Cell saga. The only logical explanation for this "inconsistency" is that DBZ character's method of destroying planets revolves around them disrupting the core (be it on purpose or accident) rather than just flat out destroying it. This explanation puts things into perspective, explains why they can even fight on the planet in the first place without having to worry about a casual blast hitting the earth's crust, explains why the Z-senshi had trouble blowing up a freaking DOOR in the Android saga, sums up how kamehameha of Cell could potentially destroy all the planets in the solar system, explains Namek's destruction, amongst so many other instances of ~(planetbusting) blast. Gotta love occam's razor. Now the top tier characters in Marvel? They are the REAL planet busters.
> 
> What's the point? Trunks isn't as powerful as you say in the first place (not that it matters since evidence shows that the keyblade would just put Sora on Trunks level anyway).



I'm well aware of all of this. It's just easier saying "planet buster" than "blast that drills through the planet, disrupts the core, and eventually destroys it". But for the sake of accuracy, can any prove that Sora can deflect a blast capable of drilling through the planet and destroying via disputing the core? 

Also, that still doesn't prove Sora can bloke a Planet Buster.

All I stated was that Trunks could bust a planet, and he can.



> I mean, the term 'planet buster' has been spammed so much in this thread, and yet the only people in DB who I remember actually blowing up a planet was Kid Buu, Cell (while self-destructing) and Freiza. Until he actually -does- blow up a planet, he isn't capable of it.
> 
> But if he did, please feel free to show me. It has been a while since I re-read DBZ.



You're list is quite right; those are the only characters to blow up a planet on screen/panel. But it stands to reason that anyone capable of putting out as much or more Ki than Freeza when he destroyed Planet Vegeta or Namek should be capable the same feat. Trunks is miles ahead of Freeza's first form.


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## Omnirix (Aug 23, 2010)

Tell me you guys are trolling on purpose.


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## SasuOna (Aug 23, 2010)

Sora wins this Trunks has no way of putting him down before Genie gets summoned and he takes a trip to the sun.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Logical-Master said:


> LOL. It always makes me chuckle when people get uppity about a bullshit discussion about fictional characters. Gives us nerds a bad name. Lighten up.



I'm making wisecracks for the most part

if you think that's uppity, then you're a lost cause


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## Heihachi (Aug 23, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Really? huh. Could have sworn several people mentioned it was.
> 
> 
> You're list is quite right; those are the only characters to blow up a planet on screen/panel. But it stands to reason that anyone capable of putting out as much or more Ki than Freeza when he destroyed Planet Vegeta or Namek should be capable the same feat. Trunks is miles ahead of Freeza's first form.



I noticed a few people saying it as well, but since the OP doesn't say it, I just kind of ignored them.

True, but in the same vein as people saying 'Sora can't tank a planet buster with reflect because he hasn't shown it', Trunks can't fire a planet buster since he hasn't shown it.

In the game, I can't think of a magic attack that reflect couldn't protect against, but since Sora hasn't been shown to tank something of that magnitude, it's assumed he can't do it here. Likewise, the same should apply to Trunks, who has never fired an attack which destroyed the planet.

For fairness sake.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Tell me you guys are trolling on purpose.





SasuOna said:


> Sora wins this Trunks has no way of putting him down before Genie gets summoned and he takes a trip to the sun.



I can name you one poster who more than likely _isn't_ trolling

guess who


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 23, 2010)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Tell me you guys are trolling on purpose.


Who?
I sure as hell aint. Sora gets raped,


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 23, 2010)

Who can blame anyone for being uppity this is all pretty IMPAWTANT.


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## Bender (Aug 23, 2010)

hadomaru said:


> You have to prove it, the burden of proof is on you.



You're the one who's going hard saying he can't. Skyscrapers being tossed at him. Not to mention digitized Sora is able to use the keyblade to cut through *DATA*. 





> Goku and vegeta are faster than Sora.



_Reversal_

The whole teleport spamming that they do in DBZ Sora Riku, Xehanort-Riku can do that too.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzBrPY2bq0Y&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

3:37-3:40

Also since I never restricted reaction command use in this battle Sora's able to do the same teleport spamming that DBZ fighters do in this battle. Look up the KHII Xenmas fight. He does the same thing they do.




> Deflect? whatever.



No it's not whatever. Prove what you say.


I gotta go to bed I start college tomorrow 


Night


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Charcan said:


> Who can blame anyone for being uppity this is all pretty IMPAWTANT.



speaking of important stuff, I'm almost at post 10,000


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 23, 2010)

For now I'm just gonna sit back and see how many people are observing. I said my peace.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 9 (9 members and 0 guests)
basch71, Charcan, Bender, Heihachi, Heroic Trunks+, Piekage, hadomaru, Logical-Master, Belly Ranks



> speaking of important stuff, I'm almost at post 10,000



You'll probably get 10,000 within a week knowing how many times you post.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> speaking of important stuff, I'm almost at post 10,000



That deserves a +1.


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## Omnirix (Aug 23, 2010)

Is there even anything suggesting KH Genie and Movie Genie are the same anyway? Even KH Jafar who by powerscaling is more powerful than KH Genie hadn't shown reality warping to the extend of Movie Genie who spun a planet like a basket ball.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 23, 2010)

Charcan said:


> That deserves a +1.


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## Piekage (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> I noticed a few people saying it as well, but since the OP doesn't say it, I just kind of ignored them.
> 
> True, but in the same vein as people saying 'Sora can't tank a planet buster with reflect because he hasn't shown it', Trunks can't fire a planet buster since he hasn't shown it.
> 
> ...



Trunks doesn't have to show he can planet bust because of how DBZ works. The more Ki you have/use, the more damage you can do. That's how the show has always been. Freeza, who had a lot less Ki than Trunks, could destroy planets. It's a logical assumption; for example, if I could break some guy's nose, then it stands to reason that Mike Tyson could do so as well, because he's much bigger and stronger than me, not to mention he has a lot most experience doing so. In that situation, I'm Freeza and Trunks is Mike Tyson, and that poor bastard getting his ass kicked by the two of us is a planet.

...I think that makes sense.

Sora's Reflect has no comparion to be made with. If someone in KH blocked a PB with Reflect, than it would stand to reason that Sora could do so as well sense it's the same spell. Sense no comparison can be made, logical conclusions and facts have to be brought up to determine Reflect's blocking power, and noone in KH has thrown PB force at Sora, so we have no way of knowing he can block it, therefore, for the sake of a debate, he can't.

Fairness is hard something considered in the OBD. It's unfair that Sora has essentially a win condition that he can bust out against people he has no business beating.


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## Logical-Master (Aug 23, 2010)

Piekage said:


> I'm well aware of all of this. It's just easier saying "planet buster" than "blast that drills through the planet, disrupts the core, and eventually destroys it". But for the sake of accuracy, can any prove that Sora can deflect a blast capable of drilling through the planet and destroying via disputing the core?


I've argued that Sora's strength/speed changes in respect to who he is fighting (which explains why he is sometimes on Tarzan's level and is sometimes able to shrug off blows from Hercules or move at FTL speed) due to keyblade magic (not that I insist it can equal Sora to people who are in the quasi-omnipotent league, such as upper tier Marvel Universe characters). Hence, Sora would be strong enough to deal with Trunks' attacks without any technical strategy. It's that simple.

Even ignoring this explanation, merely taking blows from Hercules (someone whom as a teenager, was strong enough to "lift the sky") is quite impressive and definitely an indication high-tier damage soaking.


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## Heihachi (Aug 23, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Trunks doesn't have to show he can planet bust because of how DBZ works. The more Ki you have/use, the more damage you can do. That's how the show has always been. Freeza, who had a lot less Ki than Trunks, could destroy planets. It's a logical assumption; for example, if I could break some guy's nose, then it stands to reason that Mike Tyson could do so as well, because he's much bigger and stronger than me, not to mention he has a lot most experience doing so. In that situation, I'm Freeza and Trunks is Mike Tyson, and that poor bastard getting his ass kicked by the two of us is a planet.
> 
> ...I think that makes sense.
> 
> ...



Except a broken nose and a broken planet is a bit...diffrent. Not to mention that, no battle of Ki was engaged between Trunks or Frieza. Their fight was literally a sword slice and it was over, and that was impressive, but Freiza was half-mechanical at that point, and weakened from his battle with Goku.

Because of this, I still doubt Trunks' planet busting potential.


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## Logical-Master (Aug 23, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I'm making wisecracks for the most part
> 
> if you think that's uppity, then you're a lost cause


I think MAYBE (just maybe) lines like "This is retarded" would qualify as a "wisecrack" by someone with the sparkle and wit of Mike Tyson. Maybe ...


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## Piekage (Aug 23, 2010)

Logical-Master said:


> I've argued that Sora's strength/speed changes in respect to who he is fighting (which explains why he is sometimes on Tarzan's level and is sometimes able to shrug off blows from Hercules or move at FTL speed) due to keyblade magic (not that I insist it can equal Sora to people who are in the quasi-omnipotent league, such as upper tier Marvel Universe characters). Hence, Sora would be strong enough to deal with Trunks' attacks without any technical strategy. It's that simple.
> 
> Even ignoring this explanation, merely taking blows from Hercules (someone whom as a child could "lift the sky") is quite impressive and definitely an indication high-tier damage soaking.



Is that so? I don't recall seeing it, but then this thread jumps quite a bit.

As for being around Tarzan level, that's easy enough to explain; that was in the first game. Everyone was much weaker back then, before Nomura wanted everyone jumping around like Cloud in AC.

Tanking blows from Herc is impressive, but it could be argued that he was taking it easy on him in KH1. Herc's far too polite to try and take Sora's head off in a tournament for fun.


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## Logical-Master (Aug 23, 2010)

Piekage said:


> As for being around Tarzan level, that's easy enough to explain; that was in the first game.


Nah, for he is also in Jack Sparrow and Mulan's league certain parts in the second game. Although I do agree that Sora did become more powerful in the second game, though simply in terms of his keyblade proficiency (hence why we seem him using new techniques on the fly).


> Tanking blows from Herc is impressive, but it could be argued that he was taking it easy on him in KH1.


Doubtful, as it wouldn't explain why he ultimately lost. If he was taking it easy, he could at least use enough strength to put Sora down and come out on top.


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## Piekage (Aug 23, 2010)

Heihachi said:


> Except a broken nose and a broken planet is a bit...diffrent. Not to mention that, no battle of Ki was engaged between Trunks or Frieza. Their fight was literally a sword slice and it was over, and that was impressive, but Freiza was half-mechanical at that point, and weakened from his battle with Goku.
> 
> Because of this, I still doubt Trunks' planet busting potential.



Like I said, it was an example.

But we know Trunks had a much higher Ki than Freeza. Pratically every character there confirmed it. And as Ki buffs you speed and strength in DBZ, if he were weaker, Trunks would have _never_ out speeded or out fought Freeza or his father. We know this because Dodoria was physically dominated by Vegeta, despite being much larger. Zarbon similarly curbstomped Vegeta, and when Vegeta's PL/Ki rose he raped Zarbon in kind.

Freeza was weakened from his battle with Goku, but not so much that he was weaker than his first form. And Vegeta and Piccolo, both of whom had fought somewhat evenly with Freeza's second form, shat themselves when he and King Cold landed on Earth.


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## Piekage (Aug 23, 2010)

Logical-Master said:


> Nah, for he is also in Jack Sparrow and Mulan's league certain parts in the second game. Although I do agree that Sora did become more powerful in the second game, though simply in terms of his keyblade proficiency (hence why we seem him using new techniques on the fly).
> Doubtful, as it wouldn't explain why he ultimately lost. If he was taking it easy, he could at least use enough strength to put Sora down and come out on top.



Based on what? Neither Jack or Mulan fight during any cutscenes, so what do we have to compare them with? Not to mention this was during earlier parts of the game before he became complete, and after he was stuck in a casket for a year. 

Because stomping them in five seconds probably wouldn't be very fair to any of them(Sora Donald and Goofy), and ending the match so decisively would upset the fans. IIRC canonically there were people watching the matches, even if we don't see them during battle. Herc is thier friend and wants to help them grow into real heroes, not fight them to the death or beat them as decisively as possible.

Also, a minor note, are the side quests canon to begin with? I know we see the trophies and everything in KH2, but I don't recall anyone actually referancing any of the matches that supposely took place. It also wouldn't make sense character wise for Sora to stop by the Herc's place and fight and stuff when he was looking for Kairi and Riku. Just something I've wondered for a bit is all.


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