# Did Itachi really have a lover?



## Praecipula (May 19, 2010)

Okay, you can delete this thread if anyone want to. But I'm a just a little girl who's very curious. 

I'm reading this fanfic about Itachi's lover and a question pop on my head. As long as I'm concerned, Itachi was like...thirteen or fourteen?  when he massacred his entire clan. And Madara once said that his lover was one of them.

" Lover "  At the age of fourteen? The hell is that? So do you think, he really has a lover or it's just mistranslated?


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## Selva (May 19, 2010)

Yes he had a lover. It still makes me go  to think about it though. He was kinda young for these sort of stuff, ya know?


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## Blinky (May 19, 2010)

It was just added in to make things more tragic .


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## meyenburg (May 19, 2010)

Itachi is a pimp yo'


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## Krombacher (May 19, 2010)

Perhaps it was meant more as girlfriend but noone in that age could let the fingers from Itachi, best example is this forum


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## toothlesstoothy (May 19, 2010)

She probably died while in the middle of having sex with Itachi, leaving her a big smile.


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## Judecious (May 19, 2010)

yes his name was shisui uchiha


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## toothlesstoothy (May 19, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> yes his name was shisui uchiha



Shisui is a man, and he defeated Itachi in combat. Itachi pretended to commit suicide and when Shisui tried to stop him he stabbed Shisui. Just before Shisui dies, Itachi asked if he knew he was pretending.


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 19, 2010)

Its nothing weird actually, Itachi was just a normal child, he had girl friends and shit... unlike Naruto and Sasuke who are 16 and still don't know what a clitoris is.


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## Judecious (May 19, 2010)

toothlesstoothy said:


> Shisui is a man, and he defeated Itachi in combat. Itachi pretended to commit suicide and when Shisui tried to stop him he stabbed Shisui. Just before Shisui dies, Itachi asked if he knew he was pretending.



so what if shisui is a man,itachi killed his lover and the lover was shisui


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## toothlesstoothy (May 19, 2010)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Its nothing weird actually, Itachi was just a normal child, he had girl friends and shit... unlike Naruto and Sasuke who are 16 and still don't know what a clitoris is.



In the anime Naruto has kissed filler female characters. Sasuke though... LOL!


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## Lucciola (May 19, 2010)

i wonder if Itachi had time for that
Madara might just add some flavor to the story


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## KAKASHI10 (May 19, 2010)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Its nothing weird actually, Itachi was just a normal child, he had girl friends and shit... unlike Naruto and Sasuke who are 16 and still don't know what a clitoris is.



Long live the KING


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## Amekage (May 19, 2010)

Fucking kids do all kinds of shit these days  Kishi's just representing this tastefully.


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## Praecipula (May 19, 2010)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Its nothing weird actually, Itachi was just a normal child, he had girl friends and shit... unlike Naruto and Sasuke who are 16 and still don't know what a clitoris is.



Itachi?  Normal child? Are you serious?  He's more anti-social than Sasuke so how the heck could he be normal? :ho

And that's my point. Naruto and Sasuke don't even know smex yet so how the hell did an super anti-social, fourteen year old genius got a lover? 

I think it's a mistake Kishi-sama made. He completely overlooked Itachi's age before he write about that " infamous lover."


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## Godammit (May 19, 2010)

I wonder if it was a person like Sakura and went after Itachi when he joined Akatsuki but killed her


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## Hokuto (May 19, 2010)

Madara just makes some story to get Sasuke's sympathy.


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## Lelouch71 (May 19, 2010)

Unlike Sasuke, Itachi tapped his fangirls. Why do you think Kisame like being around Itachi. This guy can get all the hot chicks just by winking. Hell I wouldn't be surprise if he has a few babies mamas that he genjutsu into believing he's not the father.


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## Bathroom_Mop (May 19, 2010)

The newer generation are all useless. The older generations were pimps. Itachi probably tapped half his class while in Konoha


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## Judecious (May 19, 2010)

Lelouch71 said:


> Unlike Sasuke, Itachi tapped his fangirls. Why do you think Kisame like being around Itachi. This guy can get all the hot chicks just by winking. Hell I wouldn't be surprise if he has a few babies mama's that he genjutsu into believing he's not the father.



more like fanboys his lover was obviously shisui


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## PoinT_BlanK (May 19, 2010)

Yes He Did..


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## PikaCheeka (May 19, 2010)

Yes, his name was Shisui. An alarming amount of evidence points to it.

Shisui was his closest person at the time (interestingly, while Itachi's death awoke Sasuke's MS, Sasuke's death wouldn't have awoken Itachi's when he was 13). We know how fanatically devoted he was to his brother, yet he still killed Shiusui. Shisui was closer to him at the time than Sasuke was, which means he was pretty fucking close.  Fucking close indeed. 

Shisui was killed by Itachi, as his lover was.

Kishimoto decidedly used the word 'lover', keeping it genderless, which says a lot.

If his lover=/=Shisui, it was some girl who he likely had an arranged marriage with and didn't give a shit about. She wasn't important enough for him to kill to get MS, and she wasn't important enough for him to keep alive. So whoever she was, she didn't mean anything to him. Hell, he probably barely even knew her.

Itachi was an ANBU captain and was also a spy trying to prevent a coup. He barely had time for Sasuke, who, as I said above, was clearly more important than said lover, so how the hell could he have time to have girlfriends/an active love life unless it was someone he worked with and was extremely close to aka Shisui?


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## taeko (May 19, 2010)

makes sense, i don't understand it either  and love in the narutoverse are most likely based on samurai love *to*make*THE*BOND*stronger*they*make-out* 

if you read the samurai-student-teacher-bond books, you just rolf at the naruto manga, than you begin to think that it makes sense all this weird bond stuff that is going on 

but yeah  could be so arranged marriage, just look at fugaku and mikoto. they don't realy look like as if they....love each other or they are a-sexual


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## Valtieri (May 19, 2010)

The real question is, If his mission was to kill his clan, the Uchiha, then why kill his lover?
Was she an Uchiha?
Incestuous 14 year old love


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## takL (May 19, 2010)

a L O V E R at 13....shouldnt it be referred as a gf? 
and i know it wasnt a wrong translation.


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 19, 2010)

Sofiajade said:


> Itachi?  Normal child? Are you serious?  He's more anti-social than Sasuke so how the heck could he be normal? :ho
> 
> And that's my point. Naruto and Sasuke don't even know smex yet so how the hell did an super anti-social, fourteen year old genius got a lover?
> 
> I think it's a mistake Kishi-sama made. He completely overlooked Itachi's age before he write about that " infamous lover."



Thats how murdering psychopaths roll brah, do you know a guy named Ted Bundy ?  

But seriously, he wasn't more antisocial than Sasuke, Sasuke never spoke to anyone when he was a kid and never let anyone come close because well, he was a traumatized kid.

Naruto on the other hand wasn't antisocial, he was simply a loser, and losers get no pussy in the realm of fiction  only winners like Itachi do, despite their age


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## Godammit (May 19, 2010)

He got aids from Shishui lololol


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## Kamizage (May 19, 2010)

I believe a tape was leeked.


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## Zerst?ren (May 19, 2010)

It could be either something Kishi pulled out of his ass, or somthing that actually has to do whit the plot.

Honestly, I hope it's true. It's nice to see a human Itachi, since we found about his real goals and person after he died.


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## takL (May 19, 2010)

and the lover was never in the repeated flashbacks. only the masked one knew. like itachi  opened up himself to tobi.


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## Vanity (May 19, 2010)

Assuming that it was translated properly....yeah he did.

It probably would have been better to say 'girlfriend' or 'boyfriend' though since 'lover' just makes it sound more intimate...which does end up feeling weird for such a young person. XD At least to me it does, since I'm 25. lol. I guess Kishi didn't want to specifiy the gender of the person though, which is why it just says 'lover'. It's just that lover is a weird term for me to hear used for someone so young.


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## Oishiitebayo (May 19, 2010)

Shisui probably did it with his sharingan 
..or not


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## takL (May 19, 2010)

i can confirm that....tobi used the word  '恋人　koibito' thats like 'a sweetheart'. doesnt mean a love affair tho.


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## Super Naruto (May 19, 2010)

Shisui was his lover.

Itachi was Homosexual, all evidence points to it.


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## Saturnine (May 19, 2010)

Super Naruto said:


> Shisui was his lover.
> 
> Itachi was Homosexual, all evidence points to it.



The only evidence you have is the fact that he's Sasuke's brother and Sasuke is obviously homo. No further indications though.


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## Godammit (May 19, 2010)

I had a girlfriend at the age of 15 what gives ?


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## PikaCheeka (May 19, 2010)

takL said:


> and the lover was never in the repeated flashbacks. only the masked one knew. like itachi  opened up himself to tobi.



More like Tobi/Madara watched from the shadows. His warping skills must come in handy at times such as those.



Godammit said:


> He got aids from Shishui lololol



The real reason Itachi killed Shisui was that he got the tests back. MS was a side effect.


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## Superior (May 19, 2010)

Itachi is not gay, Don't let Sasuke drag him down.


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## Zerst?ren (May 19, 2010)

Superior said:


> Itachi is not gay, Don't let Sasuke drag him down.



This.

No one is gay until Kishi says so 


There is no prove that Shisui and Itachi were lovers.


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## PikaCheeka (May 19, 2010)

Saturnine said:


> The only evidence you have is the fact that he's Sasuke's brother and Sasuke is obviously homo. No further indications though.



And Sasuke idolized his brother and wanted to be just like him. 

Seriously, it doesn't change Itachi's character remotely. Maybe it makes his Sasuke obsession a little creepier than it already is, but otherwise, whatever.


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## Masato (May 19, 2010)

Superior said:


> Itachi is not gay, Don't let Sasuke drag him down.



This man is telling the truth!

Itachi is a chick magnet, just look at the chick he genjutsue'd so she could distract Jiraya.


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## Super Naruto (May 19, 2010)

omigosh said:


> This.
> 
> No one is gay until Kishi says so
> 
> ...



Kishi also didn't confirm whether his lover was male or Female.

So this topic is obviously going to be subject for debate.


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## BrightlyGoob (May 19, 2010)

Apparently so, though I don't think it was anything to serious ..


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## Zerst?ren (May 19, 2010)

Super Naruto said:


> Kishi also didn't confirm whether his lover was male or Female.
> 
> So this topic is obviously going to be subject for debate.



I'll reformulate my statement.

No one is gay, straight or bisexual until Kishi says so


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## Closet Pervert (May 19, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> Yes, his name was Shisui. An alarming amount of evidence points to it.
> 
> Shisui was his closest person at the time (interestingly, while Itachi's death awoke Sasuke's MS, Sasuke's death wouldn't have awoken Itachi's when he was 13). We know how fanatically devoted he was to his brother, yet he still killed Shiusui. Shisui was closer to him at the time than Sasuke was, which means he was pretty fucking close.  Fucking close indeed.
> 
> ...


100% proven canon fact.


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## alcoholmixture (May 19, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> Yes, his name was Shisui. An alarming amount of evidence points to it.
> 
> Shisui was his closest person at the time (interestingly, while Itachi's death awoke Sasuke's MS, Sasuke's death wouldn't have awoken Itachi's when he was 13). We know how fanatically devoted he was to his brother, yet he still killed Shiusui. Shisui was closer to him at the time than Sasuke was, which means he was pretty fucking close.  Fucking close indeed.
> 
> ...




 You yaoi fangirls

 From what we have, Shisui was killed when Itachi was about 11.
 The lover was mentioned together with other victims in the massacre which happened when he was 13.
 Many things could happen in two years, including finding a lover.
 Some timelines that may help:



 (note: Shisui was killed about 6 months+ after he joined ANBU (NOT became an ANBU captain) ) 

 And having a lover at 13 is one thing, having a lover at 11, male or female, is... just unspeakable. 



 And as far as I know, in our Asian countries, including Japanese, words that mean "lover" with gender unspecified are common and normal. Besides, "Kobito" in Japanese, like "người yêu" in my language, like "ai ren" in Chinese all indicate seriousness  (with or without sexual intercourse). 
 Having a "girlfriend" sounds much less serious (and the word "girlfriend" may indicate a "sexual partner" or a platonic love, as much as the word "lover"). 

Don't know about the other two. But in my language, versions of "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" weren't even used that much until the Westerners appeared. And it seems the Japanese's mentality is the same, considering they even borrow "girlfriend" and "boyfriend" directly from English (gaarufurendo and boifurendo or smth like that) even though they already have their versions for them.


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## sadino (May 19, 2010)

omigosh said:


> I'll reformulate my statement.
> 
> No one is gay, straight or bisexual until Kishi says so



Everyone is Assexual until Kishi states otherwise.But i found more logical to be Shisui,a random Uchiha girl would be too lame.


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## Eau Rouge (May 19, 2010)

I don`t want to sound stupid, but as a non-nativ english speaker, I thought that "lover" meant a guy (not a girl!) till I read this thread.

Hm, Itachi can`t be gay. Come on, the gay char role has been already taken by Guy Sensei


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## Orxon (May 19, 2010)

I can't imagine Itachi holding hands with anyone, let alone kissing them.


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## PikaCheeka (May 19, 2010)

sadino said:


> Everyone is Assexual until Kishi states otherwise.But i found more logical to be Shisui,a random Uchiha girl would be too lame.



Sasuke wins the asexual category.



alcoholmixture said:


> You yaoi fangirls
> 
> From what we have, Shisui was killed when Itachi was about 11.
> The lover was mentioned together with other victims in the massacre which happened when he was 13.
> ...



I'm not speaking as a yaoi fan.  (you're also one of the first people here ever to think I was female ) A surprising amount of Itachi fans agree with this and are fine with it, and it doesn't mean shit about their preferences.

So you have fan-made timelines to back you up? I tend to not trust those seeing as the last one I read, I was able to find massive errors in. I'll stick with what appears to be canon, which is that Itachi killed Shisui when he was 13.

In terms of age...this is Itachi we're talking about Anybody who is a mass murderer at 13 probably doesn't have the most normal of sex lives (if he even ever had one).


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## Purgatory (May 19, 2010)

Yes Itachi did have a lover. Their name was


*Spoiler*: __ 



Shisui


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## Super Naruto (May 19, 2010)

omigosh said:


> I'll reformulate my statement.
> 
> No one is gay, straight or bisexual until Kishi says so



I like Itachi, one of my favourite characters, but i'm being non biased here.

I don't think Kishi will build on it, i think Kishi said "Lover", not determining Sex so the reader could assume what they want, otherwise he would have been more specific.


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## PikaCheeka (May 19, 2010)

Uthr said:


> I can't imagine Itachi holding hands with anyone, let alone kissing them.



'Lover' doesn't necessarily have sexual or even physical implications.  That's just how it's come to be used in English, but that wasn't what it originally meant. It could simply be someone he has romantic feelings for (that are reciprocated) or it could be an arranged marriage/someone he never met but is expected to have a relationship with.


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## Bloo (May 19, 2010)

Sofiajade said:


> Itachi?  Normal child? Are you serious?  He's more anti-social than Sasuke so how the heck could he be normal? :ho
> 
> And that's my point. Naruto and Sasuke don't even know smex yet so how the hell did an super anti-social, fourteen year old genius got a lover?
> 
> I think it's a mistake Kishi-sama made. He completely overlooked Itachi's age before he write about that " infamous lover."



I've met people who lost their virginity at the age of thirteen, now when Kishi said lover, it could be the equivalent to a girlfriend, since he does live in a different society. Also, his lover, was apparently that of the Uchiha clan, and being the prodigy as he was, he probably got a lot of attention from girls just as sasuke did, and unlike sasuke decided to try it. Sasuke's interests lied elsewhere. So I don't see why it should be considered weird for a thirteen year old to have a girlfriend, I've also met a ten year old who's a sister of a friend of mine and she's dating someone.


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## Robot-Overlord (May 19, 2010)

Yes, he had a lover. Unfortunately he broke his left hand punching his dad to death. 
It recovered but it just wasn't the same anymore. Poor Itachi.


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## Nikushimi (May 19, 2010)

Romeo and Juliet were like 13; Itachi having a lover isn't all that strange. It's not like he was married or anything, but even then, there are still parts of the world IRL that let you marry that young, so it still wouldn't be very strange.


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## Tifa (May 19, 2010)

The translation I read said "girlfriend" which doesn't have to be as intimate at that age.


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## Purgatory (May 19, 2010)

Superior said:


> Itachi is not gay, Don't let Sasuke drag him down.



Where else did Saucegay get his faggotry from?


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## alcoholmixture (May 19, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> Sasuke wins the asexual category.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 The second timeline has holes. But it's not about trust here. Can you decide what part the fans say is reasonable enough and what part is not reasonable enough on your own?
 What you suggest is also fan made. What they suggest are also fan made. 
 NO cannon evidence says he killed Shisui at 13.

 What I can accept as cannon, is he killed his clan soon after he kwas made an ANBU CAPTAIN.

 At least we knew that he killed Shisui months after he joined ANBU (and NOT became an ANBU captain). His father even said he began acting strange _lately_. And we have Sasuke thought back about it "since that day..." A whole process of how his relationship with his father   deteriorated  and Sasuke got attention was portrayed.  

 It wasn't like he killed the whole clan days after he killed Shisui. 
 And for the lover to be mentioned in the list of victims like that...

 And since when being mass murderers is related to sexual lives?

 And as I already said, "kobito" itself doesn't imply "sexual partner" like "lover". Don't let your preconceptions fool you, Itachi would say. What is certain is the fact that Kishimoto decided that the relationship was *serious* when he chose that word.

 And Kishi said in DB3 that he committed the massacre because he was an extremely intelligent person, and not because he was an unstable bloodthirsty crazy kid. 
 Such an old soul...   If the relationship was somehow perverted, I would guess that maybe the lover was years older than him... Considering he worked with older people and even lead them all his life. Became an ANBU captain at 13. Joined Akatsuki at 11-13, and was the senior to a man 12 years his senior no less. I can't imagine he could have such a serious relationship with a 13 years old rabid dreamy fangirl.


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## kristibrud (May 19, 2010)

imagine though. itachi must be an amazing lover, regardless of receiving gender. he points at them and have them orgasm for 72hours straight...


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## Brooke Logan (May 19, 2010)

I guess he did, but it was pulled out of nowhere and I don't think Kishimoto originally intended that or we'd have seen or heard mention of her in the chapters featured in volume 25 flashing back to that time of his life.

I thought it was ridiculous and degrading to Itachi's character that he added that in, and I stopped reading after that reveal.  I was already annoyed with several things (the hypocrisy of the killing of Hidan, the lousy ending of Kakuzu, the Sasuke abuse, and the killing, or pretending to, of Deidara), but that was the final nail in the coffin of Naruto for me.


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## MangaR (May 19, 2010)

Actually it make sense ))

The true story about Uchiha Massacre....

Itachi was young good looking and didn't care about anyone, he was outsider, he lived by his own rules  But one day he saw a beautiful girl named Hina. He was charmed but his heart was tearing because his only friend earlier said :"don't f--- with my girlfriend when you'll see her"*. And he didn't use genjutsu to mindsmex her back then, just as promised. 

Time passed and they were making solid horns to Shisui. Itachi didn't want to break the heart of his friend thats why he drawn it in the river. 

Time passed. Practicing genjutsu on a random stranger-fodder he finds out that his father has some relationships with Hina(even though she doesn't know about.**) and that the stranger was pervert enough to bypass Konoha's defense so that he could ask some food***. Nowadays, nameless fodder is going by Mecha Uchiha Madara.

Time passed. Itachi wanted to revenge his father, oh and the rest of his clan, just in case.**** He told Mum-guy to take away any guard near Uchiha reserve while he would kill everyone, and fodder agreed ^_^
Itachi killed everyone, even his lover(he didn't see her, it was dark night). 

At the sun set he eats candy while leaving the villiage...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* - Shisui new that Itachi was ahead of his generation.
** - O_o another genjutsu ? what a perverty technic.
*** - yeah, right.
**** - He was a true genious, no witnesses = no problems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can ask "and what about Sasuke and his trauma?". well if you want to know... Itachi was so busy he didn't even remember that he has a brother, for 7 years, until Kakashi directly asked "".

And Sasuke got his trauma because of a chair. When he was returning home at the sunrise after massacre he saw bunch of drunk men, women, dogs and children that lay down the road*. It was usuall thing for Konoha nins so he wasn't surprised. Next morning when crack almost let him go he was falling out of the window on the chair and broke his arm. Saw corpses bla bla bla, Kishi told the rest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* - thats why noone heard screams, Mum-guy worked good too 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It would be a twist later on but you can know the truth now

*Spoiler*: _Spoiler_ 




Mum-guy aka Mecha Uchiha Madara is actually mother of Itachi and Sasuke.
Now you know why their father needed Hina. MUMMY knew about traitor and wanted to get rid of him. She had a plan, a crappy one -> take a mask and searching for solution in the forest. But there already was Itachi and cought her in genjutsu. Itachi knew who is she and entrusted her because she has the same goals. Nowadays MUM is watching her living son* to become strong and have fun.

You can ask "what the hell, what about the fourth and the Kyuubi attacked ?"
4-th was drunk as hell, even all Konoha combined was more clean than him, he was just that good.
You can say "we have a proof that supports Kyuubi attack - Death god summoning helped 3-rd to beat Oro". yeah well those were just random seals that 4-th did before the last bottle finished him off. 3-rd just got lucky when they did something.
You can ask "what about destructions ?" you should see the other days, those weren't even close to Sandaime's birthday party.

* - Itachi had sex with some girl at young age, that did left a sign with no cure.


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## Final Jutsu (May 19, 2010)

Kishi was just tossing out random shit to make it seem more tragic.. It was stated though so I suppose.  Kishi pulled it out of his ass though, much like itachi dying from disease.


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## Fassy (May 19, 2010)

It was Shisui


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## Santeira (May 19, 2010)

I believe his lover was a random girl.

Madara said "Itachi killed his _best friend _(Shisui), his lover (some girl),"

He used 'lover' not to make the gender ambiguous, but to emphasize it was a _profound_ relationship. A 'girlfriend' would make it sound like kiddy love. This is a Ninja world, the fact that he was 11-13 is irrelevant when they have all been trained to kill since the age of 6.


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## Bakusaiga (May 19, 2010)

Sofiajade said:


> Okay, you can delete this thread if anyone want to. But I'm a just a little girl who's very curious.
> 
> I'm reading this fanfic about Itachi's lover and a question pop on my head. As long as I'm concerned, Itachi was like...thirteen or fourteen?  when he massacred his entire clan. And Madara once said that his lover was one of them.
> 
> " Lover "  At the age of fourteen? The hell is that? So do you think, he really has a lover or it's just mistranslated?



Actually, he was 11.  So unless he was a prepubescent pimp or got it on with Shunsui, it's a retcon.


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## Daenerys Stormborn (May 19, 2010)

My theory on that is that, with the Uchiha being an ancient and tradition-bound clan, and Itachi being the heir, there might have been some kind of arranged marriage planned for him, and the "lover" he killed was his fiancee.  It would explain why he was dating someone within his own family--he would have been engaged to someone else who also carried the Uchiha bloodline in hopes of eventually producing children with strong Sharingan.


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## Tobi-chan (May 19, 2010)

I know plenty of promiscuous eleven/twelve/thirteen year olds, just saying.

Also: Itachi had a lover, his name was Shisui, yadda yadda ya. (I thought I'd get that out of the way.)


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## KAKASHI10 (May 19, 2010)

Santeira said:


> I believe his lover was a random girl.
> 
> Madara said "Itachi killed his _best friend _(Shisui), his lover (some girl),"
> 
> He used 'lover' not to make the gender ambiguous, but to emphasize it was a _profound_ relationship. A 'girlfriend' would make it sound like kiddy love. This is a Ninja world, the fact that he was 11-13 is irrelevant when they have all been trained to kill since the age of 6.



With this thread end/ please lock it down. 
LONG LIVE THE KING.


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## Diskyr (May 19, 2010)

It wasn't Shisui, it is Kisame


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## Rabbit and Rose (May 19, 2010)

I think people at that age and lower can kiss.


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## Naruto (May 20, 2010)

The lover we never saw was a small plot device to add humanity to his character.


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## alcoholmixture (May 20, 2010)

Diskyr said:


> It wasn't Shisui, it is Kisame



 If he was a homosexual, I'd rather it be Kisame than Shisui.
 Kisame looks better than Shisui!


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## PikaCheeka (May 20, 2010)

alcoholmixture said:


> The second timeline has holes. But it's not about trust here. Can you decide what part the fans say is reasonable enough and what part is not reasonable enough on your own?
> What you suggest is also fan made. What they suggest are also fan made.
> NO cannon evidence says he killed Shisui at 13.
> 
> ...



Wow, taking this a bit seriously, are you?

Yes, my theory is fanmade. But I'm sticking with mine and not someone else's for reasons that really shouldn't have to be explained. Mine makes more sense to me. Done deal. While I agree with parts of the other timelines, I don't agree with all. 

I never stated my theory was canon. I said I am following what APPEARS to be canon. Chill out. I'm sticking with what makes sense to me given what canon info I have. I'm not going to nitpick with you. I really don't care.



> And since when being mass murderers is related to sexual lives?



That was called a joke.



> And as I already said, "kobito" itself doesn't imply "sexual partner" like "lover". Don't let your preconceptions fool you, Itachi would say. What is certain is the fact that Kishimoto decided that the relationship was *serious* when he chose that word.
> 
> And Kishi said in DB3 that he committed the massacre because he was an extremely intelligent person, and not because he was an unstable bloodthirsty crazy kid.
> Such an old soul...   If the relationship was somehow perverted, I would guess that maybe the lover was years older than him... Considering he worked with older people and even lead them all his life. Became an ANBU captain at 13. Joined Akatsuki at 11-13, and was the senior to a man 12 years his senior no less. I can't imagine he could have such a serious relationship with a 13 years old rabid dreamy fangirl.



Serious enough for her to mean absolutely nothing to him.

As I stated, whoever the lover was, they weren't important enough for him to kill for MS, and they weren't important enough for him to save. They also weren't important enough for Sasuke to know about. They didn't mean shit to him. We know that the only two people he really cared about were Sasuke and Shisui. Said 'lover' doesn't even come into the picture. 

People are just taking that line and using it as an excuse to say he was some dreamy, tragic lover (old soul, as you say) because of fangirling purposes, when all evidence points towards it being an arranged marriage or an lol-we're-bored-and-this-is-interesting relationship with Shisui. It's unbelievable, unlikely, and out of character that he had some intense and serious relationship with some woman somewhere. *Itachi's tragedy lies in Sasuke, not some 'lover' that was brought up once and never mentioned again.*


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## Shima Tetsuo (May 20, 2010)

Sofiajade said:


> Okay, you can delete this thread if anyone want to. But I'm a just a little girl who's very curious.
> 
> I'm reading this fanfic about Itachi's lover and a question pop on my head. As long as I'm concerned, Itachi was like...thirteen or fourteen?  when he massacred his entire clan. And Madara once said that his lover was one of them.
> 
> " Lover "  At the age of fourteen? The hell is that? So do you think, he really has a lover or it's just mistranslated?





The age of consent is a man-made thing and it's different in different cultures. There's no reason why a 13-14 year old could never have a "lover" in the literal sense.

Except maybe the fact that the fully grown ero-sennin's of the world would be more likely to succeed in scooping up the young girls than the teenage boys would. Itachi was obviously an exception though since he was badass enough to compete with the old pervs.


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## Lunarion (May 20, 2010)

Hey if he was an ANBU squad leader and doing A rank missions at that age what the hell is the big deal if he was getting some? In the Narutoverse kids stop being kids when they drive their first kunai trough someone's head.


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## Santeira (May 20, 2010)

To further on why I think his lover wasn't Shisui, was how many times it was emphasized that Shisui was a brother and best friend to Itachi, even Sasuke regarded it as brotherly bond. Shisui I think was with the police force and Itachi was with ANBU. If it was an arranged-marriage with an Uchiha girl then it could have been mentioned in the flashback, considering even Sasuke would have known about things like that. 

It was a serious relationship I think between Itachi and his lover, a relationship that was probably kept secret because Fugaku wouldn't have understood it and perhaps would have opposed it since he was focused on Itachi as the connection between Uchiha and Konoha.

But the order was to kill everyone within his clan. From the way Madara was speaking, it was sequenced in a way that best friend, lover and clan were to represent different individuals. Regardless of Itachi's feelings for her, he was capable of killing his emotions to kill her, this is after all a guy who killed his own mother and father who were his own flesh and blood, so it is nothing surprising there and it didn't make the relationship any less serious. A love for a woman after all, is different from a love for a kin, or a love for the place of birth.  

If you want to put in the most obvious fact is this is a Shounen Manga. I've joked about Naruto being gay but I was joking, so I don't think that Shisui was Itachi's lover despite no other mention was made on said 'lover'. Kishi could have put the lover there to make the whole massacre seem more tragic, but it makes more sense that Itachi's love for a woman was incomparable to his love for his kin, Sasuke and  the village. Remember that what could have been gained from the murder of the lover didn't signify how serious the relationship was, but she was a _lover_ nonetheless. 

Ah, why am I ranting about this. I've got work to do.


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## RockpiRate (May 20, 2010)

hahahahaaaa...that's ridiculous


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## sheetz (May 20, 2010)

Santeira said:


> From the way Madara was speaking, it was sequenced in a way that best friend, lover and clan were to represent different individuals.



I don't know which scan you read, but here's Madara's actual statement w/ my translation: 


> だがイタチは。。。友を殺し上司を殺し。。。恋人を殺し父を殺し母を殺した。。。
> However, Itachi...killed his friends and his superiors...and he killed his lover, his father, and his mother...



If you check  it's pretty much the same thing.

So I say his lover could have definitely been Shisui, and given the fact that this manga seems to place greater value on male homosexual relationships than on heterosexual ones I think it's even likely.


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## Namikaze Minato Flash (May 20, 2010)

Akatsuki210 said:


> My theory on that is that, with the Uchiha being an ancient and tradition-bound clan, and Itachi being the heir, there might have been some kind of arranged marriage planned for him, and the "lover" he killed was his fiancee.  It would explain why he was dating someone within his own family--he would have been engaged to someone else who also carried the Uchiha bloodline in hopes of eventually producing children with strong Sharingan.



I wouldn't put it past Kishimoto in having this sentiment in regards to Itachi not only having, but killing his lover. But then again, look at the expressions of love and interest in relationships amongst the Rookie 12 back in Part I. And then add how a young Jiraiya crushed on Tsunade or how Obito professed his love for Rin before dying. So, I don't think Itachi having a lover is "unusual" especially when the cold-hearted, emotionless Itachi came after he took on the mission of slaughtering his own clan...

p.s. It's "have" a lover. That grammatical error stood out to me, so I couldn't help but address your title, OP...


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## Michael Lucky (May 20, 2010)

but Itachi had a fingernail polish


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## Namikaze Minato Flash (May 20, 2010)

Michael Lucky said:


> but Itachi had a fingernail polish



You alluding to some sort of homosexual tendency, my friend...?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 20, 2010)

Whoever she is, obviously Itachi preferred the life of his little brother more since Madara explicitly says that he killed her (along with his parents and kin) but couldn't kill his little brother.

So yes he did-- as to how much she meant to him: the above is a testament to her significance to him (yes that peace trumps her for Itachi-- and that Sasuke trumps all that for Itachi).


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## Santeira (May 20, 2010)

sheetz said:


> I don't know which scan you read, but here's Madara's actual statement w/ my translation:
> 
> 
> If you check  it's pretty much the same thing.
> ...



I don't remember which scan, but it is not important. Best friend and lover were spoken separately in that line, and I'm too lazy to find it. But it was somewhere. 

In this , a 'friend' was spoken separately from 'lover'. We know someone who was close to a friend was Shisui (Itachi didn't have friends thet we were told of other than Shisui and it is safe to assume that the 'friend' Madara was alluding to was Shisui, and 'lover' was mentioned after 'superiors'. I have nothing against Yaoi, in fact I am a fan, but I believe the lover wasn't Shisui.


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## sheetz (May 20, 2010)

Santeira said:


> In this , a 'friend' was spoken separately from 'lover'. We know someone who was close to a friend was Shisui (Itachi didn't have friends thet we were told of other than Shisui and it is safe to assume that the 'friend' Madara was alluding to was Shisui, and 'lover' was mentioned after 'superiors'.




I think it's pretty clear that the sentence should be translated as "friends" rather than "friend" (plurals are often not used in Japanese) because of the way it was divided up in the panel. In the first balloon the text refers to certain groups in general (friends and superiors) while the second balloon is referring to individuals in particular (lover, father, and mother). 

I'm not saying it proves Shisui was his lover, but I am saying that the text certainly leaves open the possibility. This has nothing to do with being a yaoi fan or not and everything to do with what I, as a translator, believe is the meaning of the text. For the record I'm not a yaoi fan, and I'm not a particular big fan of this manga, either. But I did want to point out that your arguments may be relying on what I believe to be a faulty translation.


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## PikaCheeka (May 20, 2010)

Santeira said:


> I don't remember which scan, but it is not important. Best friend and lover were spoken separately in that line, and I'm too lazy to find it. But it was somewhere.
> 
> In this , a 'friend' was spoken separately from 'lover'. We know someone who was close to a friend was Shisui (Itachi didn't have friends thet we were told of other than Shisui and it is safe to assume that the 'friend' Madara was alluding to was Shisui, and 'lover' was mentioned after 'superiors'. I have nothing against Yaoi, in fact I am a fan, but I believe the lover wasn't Shisui.



Saying "friends and superiors" implies people he worked with. Yes, Shisui could be part of that, but it's not the same as saying "his friend and his superiors" (it really can't even be a mistranslation or typo, as by all logic, 'best friend' should over with 'lover, father, mother' if it was going to be anywhere, not callously thrown in with 'superiors'). No, Itachi wasn't the type to have multiple friends, but he was the type to have comrades. The wording doesn't mean the lover was someone else entirely.

Itachi having a vaguely romantic and/or sexual relationship with Shisui, whom he considered his best friend and brother and whom he worked with and spent a lot of time with, is far more believable than Itachi having a woman-on-the-side lover, especially because we have no evidence whatsoever indicating that. I'm not saying we have evidence he and Shisui were screwing, because we don't and it really doesn't matter if their relationship was sexual or not, but we have far more evidence of a relationship between them than we do of some random female lover.

Saying he had a lover just throws an unnecessary layer onto his character. He's tragic enough as it is. Giving him some yearning romantic affair with some woman pushes his tragedy over the edge into something that's over-the-top ridiculous, especially when he knows he's not the type to get close to anyone. IF he had a sexual/romantic relationship with Shisui, it was likely mild, spur-of-the-moment, practical, or never spoken of. As someone in this thread pointed out, it would fit with the samurai/ninja/student/teacher culture, and seriously, given their ages, circumstance, and relationship, it would be entirely unsurprising (and therefore believable) for something to have happened between them. It wouldn't be some wild affair or anything like that as it would have been had he had a serious romantic relationship with some woman somewhere.

Again, not saying it's canon. I'm just saying that if said lover exists at all, evidence (implications, characterization, logic, other stuff I mentioned in an earlier post) points towards Shisui (or some nondescript girl he was arranged to be married to that he didn't give a shit about) and not some older woman he was in a serious relationship with. He's got enough going on. Throwing that in as well just pushes his tragedy into absurdity.


//rant.


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## ~riku~ (May 20, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> yes his name was shisui uchiha



                                .


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## Blaze (May 20, 2010)

No, I don't think he did. Kishi put that in to show us and Sasuke, just how much Itachi sacrificed for his brother. That's all.


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## Coccinelle (May 20, 2010)

alcoholmixture said:


> You yaoi fangirls
> 
> From what we have, Shisui was killed when Itachi was about 11.
> The lover was mentioned together with other victims in the massacre which happened when he was 13.
> ...



I read all the first thread you link and I checked the timeline, but I see no proof as to when Shisui was killed. The whole "report card" is just assumption to me. 

Despite that said, I don't think his lover was Shisui. And it's not because of the translation of the line Madara said, it means nothing to me. I just think he could have been his lover but that he was not.



Eau Rouge said:


> I don`t want to sound stupid, but as a non-nativ english speaker, I thought that "lover" meant a guy (not a girl!) till I read this thread.



Don't worry, I fell the same when I first saw the anime. At first, I was like o_O and then it took me a few minutes before realizing it was genderless ;o)



FapJap said:


> No, I don't think he did. Kishi put that in to show us and Sasuke, just how much Itachi sacrificed for his brother. That's all.



I think you got it all wrong, Itachi didn't kill a whole lot of people for Sasuke's sake. The point is that he killed everybody, including his lover, but NOT Sasuke. I also think Madara said that just to make an emphasis of how much he cared for Sasuke. Or rather, that Kishi made Madara said that... ;o)

But if he indeed has a lover, I hope we will find more about her/him before the end of the manga because I'm a curious girl... but in the same time, I don't think we will ;o(


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## Jin-E (May 20, 2010)

When you can die or become crippled on missions on any given day, you enjoy the fruits of life while you still can.


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## Blaze (May 20, 2010)

Coccinelle said:


> I think you got it all wrong, Itachi didn't kill a whole lot of people for Sasuke's sake. The point is that he killed everybody, including his lover, but NOT Sasuke. *I also think Madara said that just to make an emphasis of how much he cared for Sasuke*. Or rather, that Kishi made Madara said that... ;o)
> 
> But if he indeed has a lover, I hope we will find more about her/him before the end of the manga because I'm a curious girl... but int the same time, I don't think we will ;o(


 
I guess I worded it badly but ^ that is what I meant. That he sacrificed a lot but even though he sacrificed so much he still couldn't make himself kill Sasuke. He could have a lover but to me it seem unlikely as you stated in the bolded part.


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## Santeira (May 20, 2010)

sheetz said:


> I think it's pretty clear that the sentence should be translated as "friends" rather than "friend" (plurals are often not used in Japanese) because of the way it was divided up in the panel. In the first balloon the text refers to certain groups in general (friends and superiors) while the second balloon is referring to individuals in particular (lover, father, and mother).
> 
> I'm not saying it proves Shisui was his lover, but I am saying that the text certainly leaves open the possibility. This has nothing to do with being a yaoi fan or not and everything to do with what I, as a translator, believe is the meaning of the text. For the record I'm not a yaoi fan, and I'm not a particular big fan of this manga, either. But I did want to point out that your arguments may be relying on what I believe to be a faulty translation.



Stll doesn't eliminate the fact that Shisui might have been one  of the 'friends' in that reference. If my argument is based on a faulty translation, then there's still the fact that this manga is a Shounen regardless if there's the homosexual undertones to it (the fact that Naruto has said many times 'he doesn't swing that way'). Of course it is open to interpretation, and I'm forwarding my opinion based on what I thought. If we are going take things literally, let's not forget also how that Kishi has hinted that Shisui was a best friend and brother. It's in my opinion though that even a true Yaoi fan knows that no yaoi pairings in this manga would be canon. So Kishi used 'lover', and my emphasize though rather than using it to disguise the homosexuality, it is rather a way for Kishi to forward the idea that it was a serious relationship so in comparison, his love to Sasuke transcended even this.

@pikacheeka: It's okay, I'm not saying what I said was canon either.


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## sheetz (May 20, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Stll doesn't eliminate the fact that Shisui might have been one  of the 'friends' in that reference. If my argument is based on a faulty translation, then there's still the fact that this manga is a Shounen regardless if there's the homosexual undertones to it (the fact that Naruto has said many times 'he doesn't swing that way'). Of course it is open to interpretation, and I'm forwarding my opinion based on what I thought. If we are going take things literally, let's not forget also how that Kishi has hinted that Shisui was a best friend and brother. It's in my opinion though that even a true Yaoi fan knows that no yaoi pairings in this manga would be canon. So Kishi used 'lover', and my emphasize though rather than using it to disguise the homosexuality, it is rather a way for Kishi to forward the idea that it was a serious relationship so in comparison, his love to Sasuke transcended even this.



First you say that Itachi may have been grouped in with the other no-name "friends" and then you go on to say that he's more like a "best friend and brother," which almost seems contradictory to me. I think it would be strange for Kishi to have included Shisui in with that first group if he and Itachi were in fact that close to one another. It is more likely that he'd place Shisui in with the latter grouping which included those individuals who were most important to Itachi.

And despite this being shounen, that only means the main characters probably won't be gay--it says nothing about side characters, of which Itachi is one. After all, HakuxZabuza is essentially a canon homosexual pairing, and there are certainly side characters in other shounen manga who are gay.

Anyway, I don't really care whether or not Itachi was homosexual, but I did wish to clarify what was actually stated in the original text.


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## tigersage (May 20, 2010)

toothlesstoothy said:


> She probably died while in the middle of having sex with Itachi, leaving her a big smile.



lolololololol thats so funny well u know ninja grow up fast and stuff so i wouldnt doubt itachi wanting to tap that ass bedore getting his game face on cuz when he joined akustki he wouldnt be gettiing none unless konan was giving some.


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## Ninjafrost09 (May 20, 2010)

The idea of him having a "lover" makes me . The word "lover" in english has such a sexual connotation to me, so I can't imagine Itachi sleeping with anyone (even if Itachi makes many fans drool ).  
So if this person can be refered to as a girl/boyfriend, I'm guessing he/she/it is a person whom he held romantic and deeply affectionate feelings for.




Akatsuki210 said:


> My theory on that is that, with the Uchiha being an ancient and tradition-bound clan, and Itachi being the heir, there might have been some kind of arranged marriage planned for him, and the "lover" he killed was his fiancee.  It would explain why he was dating someone within his own family--he would have been engaged to someone else who also carried the Uchiha bloodline in hopes of eventually producing children with strong Sharingan.



 
I could believe this if Kishi puts it out.  It would make sense with the way almost everyone looked the same already (save for that one guy with slanted-silver hair).

But I would still love to know who the lucky b**** is.


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## PikaCheeka (May 21, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Stll doesn't eliminate the fact that Shisui might have been one  of the 'friends' in that reference. If my argument is based on a faulty translation, then there's still the fact that this manga is a Shounen regardless if there's the homosexual undertones to it (the fact that Naruto has said many times 'he doesn't swing that way').



Yes, it is a shounen manga, which is exactly why he could have used that term as a cover-up. It would never be addressed in canon, but the evidence does lean towards Shisui more than anything, so it doesn't violate Shounen Law.

How serious a 'romantic' relationship can you HAVE when you're 13, are an ANBU captain, a terrorist, and a full-time spy? 



> @pikacheeka: It's okay, I'm not saying what I said was canon either.



But no reply? 



Santeira said:


> Now that you said it was plural, I don't see why Shisui can't be grouped with 'friends' and 'superiors' too, now that I think about it. If the main character like Naruto could act gay but he is not gay, I don't see why a side-character could be gay either, after all Itachi has never acted gay in the manga compared to Naruto.



The reason it just seems odd that he'd be thrown in there with 'friends' and 'superiors' is because such a big deal HAS been made about how close they were. Best friends/brothers, and worthy of killing to gain MS. Considering the hype on their relationship, lumping him in with a bunch of other nondescript people, but keeping his separate parents (mother, father) distinct, doesn't make sense.

He doesn't _act_ anything (he barely even changes his facial expressions), but seeing as he did have a lover, we can't play the asexual card like we can with Sasuke and most other characters. Everyone with canon romantic or sexual interest in the series has been straight. Itachi is the only person we know who canonically had a romantic or sexual interest that is unknown. I find this interesting, especially because it's a shounen manga and you'd think Kishi would want to clear up any doubts about He-of-the-Long-Eyelashes-Who-is-Prettier-than-Most-Females.

It really doesn't change his character one bit (because his relationship with Shisui is entirely irrelevant to the plot, as is his love life). It's just that something seems distinctly unsaid/hidden about the whole thing and I waste too much time thinking about this sort of thing. Honestly, if I had my way, said lover would never exist and we could just say he was as asexual as anyone else.

Okay now I'm just bothering you but you're the only one in here I can keep replying to.


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## The Reason (May 21, 2010)

He probably did some kinky shit to his "lover" with Tsukiyomi.


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## Rose (May 21, 2010)

I just can't imagine Madara saying "GF". Lover sounds like something more serious people would say at serious situations.

And Madara is oooooold. So yaa, ... I dunno. This sounded a lot better in my head.


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## Orochibuto (May 21, 2010)

toothlesstoothy said:


> In the anime Naruto has kissed filler female characters. Sasuke though... LOL!



When the fuck this happened? and the red hair girl didnt count because kissing was her way to kill you


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## Orochibuto (May 21, 2010)

Sofiajade said:


> Itachi?  Normal child? Are you serious?  He's more anti-social than Sasuke so how the heck could he be normal? :ho
> 
> And that's my point. Naruto and Sasuke don't even know smex yet so how the hell did an super anti-social, fourteen year old genius got a lover?
> 
> I think it's a mistake Kishi-sama made. He completely overlooked Itachi's age before he write about that " infamous lover."



Dude Sasuke who neven really  hasnt been an Adonis (really beign objective he is just normal, not handsome) made Mei fucking Terumi who is Angelina Jolie level vagina get wet and that when he was looking dirty and ugly as hell in the summit attack, really you dont a more will looking Uchiha and a respected hero and genious could had a lover? through the series it is implied the Uchihas have an ability to attact any fucking woman by just beign present an ability either given by some power or an ability given by Kishimoto Uchiha's wank.


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## Santeira (May 21, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> Yes, it is a shounen manga, which is exactly why he could have used that term as a cover-up. It would never be addressed in canon, but the evidence does lean towards Shisui more than anything, so it doesn't violate Shounen Law.


Except there was no reason for him to cover it up in the first place: it would serve no purpose other than to appease the fanbase of said Yaoi pairing but ItaShisu isn't large fanbase--he doesn't need to appease their ship. KakaIru got their fanservice but it is the largest fanbase so it would make sense--still it wasn't enough fanservice to imply canonship. I do think the 'lover' was put in there not really originally intended, other than to make Itachi's love for Sasuke seem greater than a love for someone else, it added to the circle of people Itachi was willing to sacrifice,  thus putting Sasuke on a higher pedestal: Shisui, a lover, his parents and the clan were nothing compared to Sasuke. 



> How serious a 'romantic' relationship can you HAVE when you're 13, are an ANBU captain, a terrorist, and a full-time spy?


He could have had that relationship since he was 11, I think it was logical. He was only ANBU Captain not long before the Uchiha Massacre, I think. If it had happened for two years, it definitely could be something really serious.  





> But no reply?


I was preparing for a meeting and a presentation, and thought that answer would suffice at that time being. 




> The reason it just seems odd that he'd be thrown in there with 'friends' and 'superiors' is because such a big deal HAS been made about how close they were. Best friends/brothers, and worthy of killing to gain MS. Considering the hype on their relationship, lumping him in with a bunch of other nondescript people, but keeping his separate parents (mother, father) distinct, doesn't make sense.


IMO, as I said, the 'lover' wasn't originally planned to be put in there. I'm not seeing why Kishi would want that much hype to be put into Shisui's character, we know he's already a best friend and a brother and it was already implying the closeness with Itachi. Saying that he was a lover now would not affect anything other than making Itachi gay--and that would serve no purpose.But to put in somebody else in there, a girl lover who was mysterious--regardless that she hasn't been foreshadowed would make Itachi's love to Sasuke seem greater.



> He doesn't _act_ anything (he barely even changes his facial expressions), but seeing as he did have a lover, we can't play the asexual card like we can with Sasuke and most other characters. Everyone with canon romantic or sexual interest in the series has been straight. Itachi is the only person we know who canonically had a romantic or sexual interest that is unknown. I find this interesting, especially because it's a shounen manga and you'd think Kishi would want to clear up any doubts about He-of-the-Long-Eyelashes-Who-is-Prettier-than-Most-Females.
> 
> It really doesn't change his character one bit (because his relationship with Shisui is entirely irrelevant to the plot, as is his love life). It's just that something seems distinctly unsaid/hidden about the whole thing and I waste too much time thinking about this sort of thing. Honestly, if I had my way, said lover would never exist and we could just say he was as asexual as anyone else.


It did change some of our perception of him, to have a romantic interest does add _humanity_ to his character. It is something I've been thinking about myself--Itachi is a soldier, a perfect soldier but at the end of the day, can he really be just an automaton that existed just to execute the village's orders? He had a dream, it was stated in the Databook, what was this dream consisted of, a dream with who? 



> Okay now I'm just bothering you but you're the only one in here I can keep replying to.


You can be sure that I don't mind discussing about stuff I'm interested in, especially with you. You're pretty intelligent and I admire your debating skills, given you've only recently taken up this manga (yes, you have been stalked )


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## Blaze (May 21, 2010)

You yaoi fans.


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## InoxUzumaki (May 21, 2010)

Lelouch71 said:


> Unlike Sasuke, Itachi tapped his fangirls. Why do you think Kisame like being around Itachi. This guy can get all the hot chicks just by winking. Hell I wouldn't be surprise if he has a few babies mamas that he genjutsu into believing he's not the father.



Yeah he had many "baby-mamas" running around with mini-Itachi's.And the using genjutsu thing is BRILLIANT!!!!I bet millions of men would love to have that abilitly so they can make their girlfriends think that they were not the father of their kids.I agree with the Kisame thing that's more than likely the ONLY reason that Kisame likes to be around Itachi(or is it something else ?


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## ? (May 21, 2010)

fourteen with a girlfriend? why is that so hard to believe?


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## Zhu Xieyu (May 21, 2010)

he's a Gemini.

figure that one out.


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## Santeira (May 21, 2010)

Another thing to be considered about what Madara said:


> だがイタチは。。。友を殺し上司を殺し。。。恋人を殺し父を殺し母を殺した。。。
> However, Itachi...killed his friends and his superiors...and he killed his lover, his father, and his mother...



He killed Shisui before the Uchiha Massacre. I'm not sure how long was the time gap between the Shisui murder and the massacre, but if we think about it this way, Shisui was killed in a matter of days, or weeks before the act of killing the clan in its entirety_ was made that particular night_. 

Madara could have referred to the night alone, where Itachi killed his "friends, his superiors, his lover, mother and father" but he couldn't kill Sasuke. Three assumptions we can make here is:

1) Shisui is not at all included in that reference
2) The lover was killed before the parents were killed, in that order
3) The decision to not kill Sasuke was made after the lover, and the parents were killed.

It makes sense,doesn't it?


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## Chaelius (May 21, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Another thing to be considered about what Madara said:
> 
> 
> He killed Shisui before the Uchiha Massacre. I'm not sure how long was the time gap between the Shisui murder and the massacre, but if we think about it this way, Shisui was killed in a matter of days, or weeks before the act of killing the clan in its entirety_ was made that particular night_.
> ...





I'm pretty sure the decision not to kill Sasuke was made before the massacre even started, didn't he plead the 3rd to protect and hide the truth from Sasuke ?


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## Santeira (May 21, 2010)

Chaelius said:


> I'm pretty sure the decision not to kill Sasuke was made before the massacre even started, didn't he plead the 3rd to protect and hide the truth from Sasuke ?



Then take out the third assumption. We still have no 1 and no 2. 

EDIT: The page I found doesn't indicate the time that Itachi asked for Sasuke to be protected. In my mind he did it right after the massacre before he left, I don't think he left right after the massacre, he must have met his top echelons to report the massacre before he left.

To add further, it wasn't until that night that Itachi lost his dream and future. From the Databook 3:


> *[The pledge of the brothers]*
> What to Sasuke is the abruptly arrived "day of revenge", to Itachi is the promised day he had foretold on that tragic night. T*hat night he lost his dreams and his future*... Now Itachi has entrusted everything to Sasuke and is able to bid farewell to him with a smile on his face.
> 
> _(balloons: "You are my spare!!")_
> ...


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## PikaCheeka (May 22, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Another thing to be considered about what Madara said:
> 
> 
> He killed Shisui before the Uchiha Massacre. I'm not sure how long was the time gap between the Shisui murder and the massacre, but if we think about it this way, Shisui was killed in a matter of days, or weeks before the act of killing the clan in its entirety_ was made that particular night_.
> ...



He could have referred to that night alone. We have no way of knowing that, but we really have no reason to assume that. Shisui was still someone dear to Itachi who was killed for the sake of peace. I believe he merely made a distinction with "lover, mother, and father" there because of everyone he killed, those were the most important. It's much more significant to have someone kill their lover or their parents than it is for them to kill a superior. 

As a side note, it's safe to assume he killed his parents last, as he was standing over them when Sasuke found him, at the end of the massacre. 



Santeira said:


> Except there was no reason for him to cover it up in the first place: it would serve no purpose other than to appease the fanbase of said Yaoi pairing but ItaShisu isn't large fanbase--he doesn't need to appease their ship. KakaIru got their fanservice but it is the largest fanbase so it would make sense--still it wasn't enough fanservice to imply canonship. I do think the 'lover' was put in there not really originally intended, other than to make Itachi's love for Sasuke seem greater than a love for someone else, it added to the circle of people Itachi was willing to sacrifice,  thus putting Sasuke on a higher pedestal: Shisui, a lover, his parents and the clan were nothing compared to Sasuke.



Kishi doesn't do everything he does to appease a fanbase. He does things for himself. Maybe he simply wanted Itachi to be involved in some manner with Itachi for his own reasons and that was why he used the term as a cover-up. Not saying he did, but it is a distinct possibility, and it really wouldn't surprise me in the least. Sometimes authors just want to have little quirks and embellishments on their characters that have nothing to do with pleasing other people. It isn't necessarily something he decided very early on and found important. It may have just been a throw-in that added depth to his character, something he liked the idea of. 



> He could have had that relationship since he was 11, I think it was logical. He was only ANBU Captain not long before the Uchiha Massacre, I think. If it had happened for two years, it definitely could be something really serious.



Eh I just find it very difficult to believe. Considering his past and the pace he was rushed through school and the ranks, it was pretty clear that he was extremely busy all the time, and not just when he became an ANBU captain.

And I don't care how mature Itachi was. He was still a kid. The idea of him having a serious romantic/sexual relationship with an older woman at 11 makes it even less believable. Fucking around at 13 with a friend is one thing.



> IMO, as I said, the 'lover' wasn't originally planned to be put in there. I'm not seeing why Kishi would want that much hype to be put into Shisui's character, we know he's already a best friend and a brother and it was already implying the closeness with Itachi. Saying that he was a lover now would not affect anything other than making Itachi gay--and that would serve no purpose.But to put in somebody else in there, a girl lover who was mysterious--regardless that she hasn't been foreshadowed would make Itachi's love to Sasuke seem greater.



Yes, it may indeed just have been a throw-in. I suspect it may have been. HOWEVER, if it was just something thrown in there, wouldn't it make more sense for it to just be awkward, mild romantic feelings towards a friend than some full-blown love affair with an unknown character? 

It would serve no purpose, but not everything has to. 

I disagree there. Having an unknown girl lover wouldn't make his love of Sasuke any more or less great. Having another layer of a relationship (that of a romantic or sexual type) to Shisui would have the exact same affect. 




> It did change some of our perception of him, to have a romantic interest does add humanity to his character. It is something I've been thinking about myself--Itachi is a soldier, a perfect soldier but at the end of the day, can he really be just an automaton that existed just to execute the village's orders? He had a dream, it was stated in the Databook, what was this dream consisted of, a dream with who?




In all honesty, if having a lover was thrown in there to make Itachi seem more normal, it's far more normal for a kid his age to be screwing around with his best friend (who he was constantly risking his life with and who he was clearly extremely close to) than it is to have a serious affair with an older woman. That's really what I've been trying to get at. Considering his intense closeness to Shisui, his standoffish and even cruel nature to everyone else, the culture, the fact that they both knew they could die on any given day, their ages, their hormones, the inevitable boredom they faced on missions, etc etc etc, it makes Itachi far more human to have a crush on his best friend or screw around with him a little than it does to have him be engaged in a serious love affair with an older woman. There is nothing 'normal' in an 11-13-year-old involved in such a love affair. On the other hand, a kid that age having a crush on an older boy who just so happens to be his bff, or maybe playing with him a little, is very normal.

I'm sure his dream had nothing to do with the lover and more to do with Sasuke. Sasuke was the world to him, yet he was almost forced into making a decision that would keep them apart until they met to die. Thinking his dream was to be with whoever that lover was greatly detracts from his love for Sasuke. 



> You can be sure that I don't mind discussing about stuff I'm interested in, especially with you. You're pretty intelligent and I admire your debating skills, given you've only recently taken up this manga (yes, you have been stalked )



Stalked, eh?  But thank you for the compliments.


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## Santeira (May 22, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> He could have referred to that night alone. We have no way of knowing that, but we really have no reason to assume that. Shisui was still someone dear to Itachi who was killed for the sake of peace. I believe he merely made a distinction with "lover, mother, and father" there because of everyone he killed, those were the most important. It's much more significant to have someone kill their lover or their parents than it is for them to kill a superior.
> 
> As a side note, it's safe to assume he killed his parents last, as he was standing over them when Sasuke found him, at the end of the massacre.
> 
> ...



This is going to be endless if I were to be redundant. Kishi does things for himself, but there is no reason also to believe something as the KakaIru fanservice is not to appease the fanbase especially with the existence of editors. He admitted himself there are parts of the events in the manga that didn't follow what he wanted, there were characters that were added because the editors told him to. All there is about ItaShisu is assumption in a Shounen manga when all the other pairings have been straight--there is no reason for ItaShisu to have happened either. 

If we put into consideration that Madara was referencing to the night's time-line, then it would be more logical. Killing all the others in what Madara said also happened  that night. About the age, I've made a point age is irrelevant when they as ninja have been trained to kill since the age six. 

About his dream, it's not wrong to believe what ended was his dream that doesn't include Sasuke. Having a romantic interest does imply that he has a dream that does not include Sasuke, the dreams were plural after all (in the Databook). To me, Shisui remains a brother and friend (he also has a rather cunning thing about him with the influencing genjutsu and his probable involvement with the genjutsu-ing Yagura). 

In the end, we believe what we want to believe, but it _does_ take a certain spin to say that the lover was Shisui but it is safe to assume that  Madara was referencing the _night  of the massacre_, the lover was prolly not originally intended, but  added for the sake of drama, and youth plays almost no role in limiting the characters in this manga, especially someone like Itachi.


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## PikaCheeka (May 22, 2010)

Santeira said:


> This is going to be endless if I were to be redundant. Kishi does things for himself, but there is no reason also to believe something as the KakaIru fanservice is not to appease the fanbase especially with the existence of editors. He admitted himself there are parts of the events in the manga that didn't follow what he wanted, there were characters that were added because the editors told him to. All there is about ItaShisu is assumption in a Shounen manga when all the other pairings have been straight--there is no reason for ItaShisu to have happened either.
> 
> If we put into consideration that Madara was referencing to the night's time-line, then it would be more logical. Killing all the others in what Madara said also happened  that night. About the age, I've made a point age is irrelevant when they as ninja have been trained to kill since the age six.
> 
> ...



Yes it is going to be redundant. 

I understand what you mean in that when you're a killer at 6, screwing around when you're 11 isn't a big deal. HOWEVER, it has nothing to do with his maturity. He's plenty mature. But for an 11-year-old male to have a serious sexual/romantic affair with an older woman? There's nothing even remotely normal about that (crude as it sounds, is a boy that age even going to be capable of satisfying a lover necessarily?). Even for a 13-year-old, that's not normal, _not even by the manga's standards_. A 13-year-old fucking around/having sex with his friend is one thing, but being engaged in a serious relationship with an older woman, while he's an ANBU member, an Akatsuki member, and a spy on top of it, is a bit much. I just find the potential relationship with Shisui far more 'normal' than that. 

So if the lover was indeed thrown in there to make his life seem more normal, than Shisui trumps there. Unless you think it's _more_ normal for 11-13-year-olds to have serious sexual/romantic relationships with older women than it is for them to screw (or crush on) their best friend who they just happen to look up to/adore. 

And as I believe I said somewhere else, it just adds another unnecessary tragedy onto his life, one that, IMO, pushes it over the top into the melodramatic/unbelievable/ridiculous/ almost mocking arena. He becomes just a joke. Oh look at Itachi, haha, yea that guy lost every single thing possible. I bet his mom was pregnant when he killed her, too. It's no longer believable. It's one thing too much.

I don't know if Itachi ever thought much past SasukeSasukeSasuke.... If he really did have dreams with this lover (and they weren't Shisui, who we know he had to kill), why didn't he keep them alive as well? He kept his brother alive. What would one more person matter? 

I still don't buy that Madara was only referring to the night of the massacre, either. When emphasizing what someone has lost/sacrificed, it's a good idea to throw it all in. Lover may not have been intended or something added by Madara for dramatic effect, agreed. As for youth, I explained it as best I could here and in my post above.


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## taeko (May 30, 2010)

we take this lover issue too serious just accept what the manga says untill the manga proves it wrong  but i do not mind to see some prove so.. kishi hurry up and make an itachi gaiden


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## Amatérasu’s Son (May 30, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Another thing to be considered about what Madara said:
> 
> 
> He killed Shisui before the Uchiha Massacre. I'm not sure how long was the time gap between the Shisui murder and the massacre, but if we think about it this way, Shisui was killed in a matter of days, or weeks before the act of killing the clan in its entirety_ was made that particular night_.
> ...


He killed Shisui like two days before the massacre. The day after the Police came to question him, then he showed his Mangekyo. Then that night at dinner, Sasuke asked Fugaku about it. Sasuke thought about it as he went to sleep. School, late studying, home for the massacre. It all went down in 48 hours.


And why wouldn't he have a girlfriend. He was a damn Chunin and ANBU Captain. He had his own income. He was elite and he was mature.

Considering the life expectancy of ninja, getting an early start on relationships is probably wise practice.

And I mean come on. Itachi is serene, a pacifist, while also a stone cold killer when he needs to be. And he's got his mama's looks. The dames were probably breakin his door down. Unlike Sasuke who is anti-social as hell with his superiority complex, Itachi's is described as having...loved his village. 

If Itachi had to deal with, Sakura, and Ino, and all the other girls don't you think he would've found one that he liked. Hell Hayate, who was sick like he had all year pneumonia coughin all over the place pulled this chick V

Yūgao Uzuki​
Imagine what Itachi could do.


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## sugoi (May 30, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> yes his name was shisui uchiha



omg it all makes sense now!


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## ninjaneko (May 30, 2010)

I thought it was previously established that while "koibito" suggests a more serious romantic relationship, it doesn't have quite as strong of a sexual connotation as the English word "lover." 

Also, I feel Itachi was mature for his age (at least...intellectually, or in a worldly sense). More than this, it's very likely he fought, bonded, and hung out with people older than him, seeing as he was a prodigy (like those genius kids who go to college at like 12). So, um, "it" could've happened I guess, though it seems a bit...odd, or unlikely.


Also, as an aside, it makes sense that his "lover" and closest friend be clan members, not only because of the clan's isolation but also because Itachi wouldn't have spent a lot of time with the people in his class, genin team, etc. before being promoted. I dunno, just occurred to me.



*Spoiler*: _As for Shisui_ 



*I always got a strong impression that what was being conveyed was that the "lover" was someone separate from his "best friend."*  Not _everyone_ falls in love with their best friend and/or the person they "look up to like a _brother_ (or sister)." -_-

Now the gender of his love is not specified, so we can have fun speculating that, but I really don't think it was Shisui. Why would it be him? Cuz he has a name, an established strong bond with Itachi, and (presumably) isn't a close relative? Is that really all it takes to assume it's romantic? (And no one is shouting ShikaChou from the rooftops, why...?)

Come to think of it, it would've been more dramatic for Itachi to say, "You must kill the one you love" or "lover" rather than "best friend." It's not like he could've known Sasuke would find no creature appealing XD. Stupid friendship theme, gettin' in the way of mah romance.


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## alcoholmixture (May 31, 2010)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> He killed Shisui like two days before the massacre. The day after the Police came to question him, then he showed his Mangekyo. Then that night at dinner, Sasuke asked Fugaku about it. Sasuke thought about it as he went to sleep. School, late studying, home for the massacre. It all went down in 48 hours.
> 
> 
> And why wouldn't he have a girlfriend. He was a damn Chunin and ANBU Captain. He had his own income. He was elite and he was mature.
> ...



 No, he killed Shisui one year after he became a chuunin. And we know he became a chuunin at age 10.

 He _*joined *_ ANBU _*six months *_after he became a chuunin
 Guess I should draw a timeline myself

1.Fugaku mentioned "tomorrow's mission":



 That was *6 months after Itachi became a chuunin*.

2.The day that mission happened was also the day Sasuke joined the academy




3.He returned home and heard that Itachi had joined the ANBU (after finishing said mission)

4. Page 9:Time passed...
 Page 10: Sasuke's first semester just ended here:


5. He returned home and showed his father the report card:


 We saw how he was so happy when looking at the results. He had his expectations high when he came to Fugaku ("I want you to say "As expected of my child...""), and the he was surprised (and disappointed) wwhen he heard the answer. It should be the first semester of his first year.
6.He woke up and heard about "the meeting"
7.We saw the report card here again:

6.One of the three guys who came to ask about Shisui's suicide said "within _*half a year *_after your entrance into the ANBU, your actions and speech were getting stranger than ever"

7.Chapter 223 covered the process in which Sasuke became the new attention while Itachi and his father's relationship got worsened
 Sasuke mentioned "the awkward event" here

 And then we saw how he practiced The Great Fireball Jutsu with his Father, whick clearly took more than 48 hours 

 And it had to take some time before Itachi wasn't the brother he had been before anymore - "from that day" (the day the three guys came):


 And I believe that "some time" was two years.


Note: The Uchihas noted that Itachi changed when he joined ANBU, but Sasuke noted that he changed BEFORE he joined the ANBU:


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## KyuubiYondaime (May 31, 2010)

Kisame is Itachi's true lover.


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## PikaCheeka (May 31, 2010)

alcoholmixture said:


> No, he killed Shisui one year after he became a chuunin. And we know he became a chuunin at age 10.
> 
> He _*joined *_ ANBU _*six months *_after he became a chuunin
> Guess I should draw a timeline myself
> ...



I've seen translations that said simply said after half a year, which implies that Shisui may have started watching him after about 6 months. We have no indication that he actually killed him immediately after this. For all we know, Shisui watched him for a year or more. 

What the timeline you present comes down to is "Is that report card the same one?". We have no way of knowing, so when it comes down to it, it's just going to be whatever seems to be the most logical for you. I myself believe Shisui was killed maybe a few months before the massacre and not much past that. The Uchiha would have to be complete morons to see Itachi behave as he did after Shisui's death and let it slide for years.


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## KyuubiYondaime (May 31, 2010)

Or maybe shishui but definetely not a girl. Itachi is gay.


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## alcoholmixture (May 31, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> What the timeline you present comes down to is "Is that report card the same one?".



  Yeah, but what's the chance? We see it presented in a repeated manner (in the class, in Fugaku's presence, in Itachi's presence... and just a couple of pages!".
 One thing that's clear is there was a whole process in which Sasuke was getting his father's attention while Itachi and Fuhaku became estranged, and Itachi became something far from the brother he was "that day"   




 And I hope next time when you say "cannon" and "for all we know", you will give me the proofs. I will be very thankful.

 About the translations, I remember that the chinese translations and Viz (anime)'s translations are the same. I think it's enough.


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## OniKid91 (May 31, 2010)

Itachi was one of the few straight ninjas!! xD 

Gay Ninjas-
Sasuke
Naruto
Orochimaru
Deidara
Kotetsu
Izumo
Shizune


Straight Ninja-
JIRAIYA
Itachi
Kakashi
Konohamaru
Ebisu
Hiruzen


Lmao im jk but they prolly meant his girlfriend im sure he must have had one since he was like 100 times more popular then sasuke! haha


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## PikaCheeka (May 31, 2010)

alcoholmixture said:


> Yeah, but what's the chance? We see it presented in a repeated manner (in the class, in Fugaku's presence, in Itachi's presence... and just a couple of pages!".
> One thing that's clear is there was a whole process in which Sasuke was getting his father's attention while Itachi and Fuhaku became estranged, and Itachi became something far from the brother he was "that day"
> 
> 
> ...



I never said canon. Thanks for trying to say I did to make my argument less valid though. Very mature.

And there's nothing wrong with saying "for all we know" when we are referring to something that is never directly stated. This instance is a perfect example. There are varying beliefs on the matter and we have no definitive proof one way or another. You can argue all you want that yours is correct, but when it comes down to it, it's still based off of an assumption.


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## FitzChivalry (May 31, 2010)

According to Madara, he had a lover and everyone knows he was charged with slaughtering his family. 2 and 2 makes...

Well, no need to discuss this any further. Answer is yes. Recycling.


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