# Strongest DBZ Character Broly can Defeat



## Dr. White (Mar 18, 2015)

Seen a shit ton of varying opinions on this. Don't know who to trust 

No Neo Genesis Broly BS, and assume the his power level being 1.4 Billion is accurate (unless that source is completely unofficial and I'm just unaware.)

Location: South Galaxy 
Knowledge: None

Oh yeah forgot to mention it includes other Anime Sources of DBZ (but not other anime versions of Broly)


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 18, 2015)

Buu Saga Gohan, obviously before his potential gets unlocked 

/thread


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## Dr. White (Mar 18, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Buu Saga Gohan, obviously before his potential gets unlocked
> 
> /thread



Not disagreeing with you, but as OP said I've seen a huge amount of opinions, some even claiming perfect cell could take him. Could you elaborate a little, so I could understand your viewpoint a bit better?


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## Sablés (Mar 18, 2015)

M10 Broly >=< SPC > M8 Broly > PC

Strongest he can beat 



> Buu Saga Gohan, obviously before his potential gets unlocked
> 
> /thread



Everyone above Gohan is out of his league.


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## Brightsteel (Mar 18, 2015)

He was overpowered by the combined efforts of Goku, Gohan, and Goten each in the first level of Super Saiyan if I remember correctly.


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## Brightsteel (Mar 18, 2015)

So......Super Saiyan 2 Gohan or something like that?


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## Dr. White (Mar 18, 2015)

Brightsteel said:


> So......Super Saiyan 2 Gohan or something like that?



Well yeah this is the debated part. I personally think Gohan was using SSJ2, because knowing the threat of Broly it wouldn't make sense not to be going all out. also given he was trashing SSJ's left and right in movie 8, I'd guess SSJ2.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 18, 2015)

broly has better feats than perfect cell iirc.
he no sold attacks from perfect super saiyan goku which was while decently below cell still worthy a good fight and capable to nearly kill him.
his feats are kinda lacking for any super saiyan 2 tier,tho.
which makes the weakened ssj2 gohan the strongest he should possibly beat imo


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## Ashi (Mar 18, 2015)

Perfect Cell or SSJ2 11 yo Gohan


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## Atem (Mar 18, 2015)

If this is canon DBZ pretty much everyone is at a disadvantage with regards to speed against Broly with the exception of BoG ballpark characters. Since even as an infant he could travel away from Planet Vegeta (with Paragus in tow) and find another habitable planet. 

When he grows up he is able to depopulate the entire South Galaxy or even destroy most of it depending on how you interpret the scene.


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## Brightsteel (Mar 18, 2015)

^^Toei was really inconsistent with their portrayal of Broly.


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## Atem (Mar 18, 2015)

Brightsteel said:


> ^^Toei was really inconsistent with their portrayal of Broly.



Yeah, but not in regards to speed that was consistent. He is able to travel interstellar distances without aid, and even travel to other galaxies. 

Which is why I think depopulating the South Galaxy was more likely considering the rest of his appearances.


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## Dr. White (Mar 18, 2015)

Someone had mentioned something about 1. 4 Billion pitting broly around SSJ3 Goku level. Assuming Gohan was indeed SSJ2, and how by how much he was outclassed alone, could there be any truth to that? Especially given his dubious "Galaxy Busting" "Feat".


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## KaiserWombat (Mar 18, 2015)

1,400,000,000 is IIRC a Budokai 3 source (the same source which features a physical clash between LSSjin Broly and _*SSjin Gogeta*_), so it's complete rot as a valid number and should be disregarded completely for OBD vs debates at least.

Also, obligatory "Broly is just the _worst_" reference in a Broly thread.

Anyway, as you may have already gathered, various communities cannot quite come to a universal consensus about Broly's BP placement.

Movie #8

- Broly in base form (while suppressed by Paragas' equipment) is low enough that Vegeta was completely nonchalant to his presence and unaware of his potential, which suggests to me a powerlevel in the low thousands *at maximum*; the general status of a battle-engaged Saiyan warrior. Likely around Raditz's level, maybe Nappa's at best (but I think for a 3rd Class Saiyan, excluding Goku due to personal experience, Vegeta's expectations are going to be _much_ lower than his former second-in-command's strength, even by the Artificial Humans Saga).

- Broly in his "Restricted SSjin" state (when he initially attacks Goku in Paragas' palace at nighttime, with the flaring aura and pronged hairstyle, but remaining black with a purple tint from suppressive radiation) has to be somewhere in the tens of millions; IIRC, he had base Goku almost completely on the ropes during the sequence, and base Goku's at least well above 3,000,000 at this stage in the series (Movie #8 correlates roughly with the Cell Budokai, chronologically speaking). He later no-sells a kick to the face from SSjin 2nd Grade Vegeta, but that technically occurred in mid-transformation sequence, so I consider including that feat under the "Restricted SSjin" label to be rather disengenuous. Push comes to shove...I'd place this form of Broly around the Post-Yardrat, Pre-RoSaT SSjins (Mirai no Trunks on the low-end, Vegeta on the high-end), though I could very well be underestimating this transformation further still.

- Legendary SSjin Broly is well above Full Power SSjin-level, for certain: he emmasculates both Goku _and_ Gohan individually and when fighting as a cohesive unit alongside Vegeta/Trunks/Piccolo. The best comparative character for determining a more precise level of strength is Cell, which is where much of the Broly debacle springs from; personally, I'd place M8 LSSjin Broly as being in and around Perfect Cell at full power (pre-Zenkai), _maybe_ a smidge weaker.

Movie #10

- It's heavily implied in the film dialogue, and confirmed in Daizenshuu #7, that Broly experiences a substantial Zenkai following his near-death at Movie #8's finale. SSjin Broly fends off base Gohan easily enough and only bothers transforming after Gohan ascends; DB#7 again correlates M10 SSjin Broly to M8 LSSjin Broly in battle power, so I feel it is a safe bet to place M10 SSjin Broly around Perfect Cell (pre-Zenkai) at full power.

- LSSjin Broly in Movie #10 pretty much batters around SSjin 2 Buu Saga Gohan like a chew toy, though Gohan is not so completely outmatched that he can't escape from the Saiyan altogether (even manages to break through an all-limb grip on his own strength, which suggests a difference which isn't gulf-like in nature). Still though, it's made blatantly apparent in the film that M10 LSSjin Broly > SSjin 2 Gohan (Buu Saga). I wouldn't consider the power multipler from regular SSjin through to LSSjin to be particularly massive (Toei production continuity generally favours a "lesser transformation boost" perspective to its material, I find); the fact that he surpasses the bare minimum threshold for SSjin 2 attainment seen in the series convincingly suggests to me that M10 LSSjin Broly is closer in strength to post-Zenkai Cell than pre-Zenkai Cell, but from there, I think it depends on how much precedent you place on Gohan's training negligence over the 7 year period and subsequent depowerment from the Cell Budokai; if the gap is small, then M10 LSSjin Broly likely surpasses Cell altogether, even if by a hair; if you're like me however, and try to find any credible avenue to discredit Broly fans and consider the gap between Cell Budokai and pre-Kaioshin Gohan to be more than noticeable, then you could easily argue in favour of Zenkai Cell being overall superior.

---

tl;dr

Perfect Cell (Post-Zenkai) >/=/< Broly (Movie #10, LSSjin) > Gohan (Buu Saga, SSjin 2) > Perfect Cell (Pre-Zenkai, Full Power) >/= Broly (Movie #10, SSjin) = Broly (Movie #8, LSSjin) >> Gohan (Cell Budokai, SSjin) >/= Broly (Movie #8, "Restricted" SSjin - High End) >> Vegeta (Cell Budokai, SSjin 2nd Grade) >> Broly (Movie #8, "Restricted" SSjin - Low End) >/= Vegeta (Pre-RoSaT, SSjin) >> Goku (Cell Budokai, Base Form) >>> Broly (Movie #8, Suppressed Base Form)


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 18, 2015)

That sounds about right to me.


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## Featherine (Mar 18, 2015)

It's vastly dependant on which SSJ form you think Gohan was at the time of the movie.

I personally think he was only a SSJ1, considering it took Videl being beaten into the ground hard for him to get back the transformation. After the Cell games, it's not something he can really do on his own imo. That and no lightning.

Doubt he'd even win against Perfect Cell with regen and all.

"Handling SSJs no problem" is something even Androids could do, remember how Trunks got knocked out of SSJ in one single blow by 17 ? And the rest of the team followed ? That beats anything shown in M8. And there's no way only one zenkai can make him go that high.

Might just be me, but yeah, never really found him that impressive.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 18, 2015)

Featherine said:


> "Handling SSJs no problem" is something even Androids could do, remember how Trunks got knocked out of SSJ in one single blow by 17 ? And the rest of the team followed ? That beats anything shown in M8. And there's no way only one zenkai can make him go that high.



M8 SSJs are basically their Cell Games counterparts in power level 

see Trunks and Vegeta going into their bulked-up SSJ forms


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## Sablés (Mar 18, 2015)

M8 Broly took a Kamehameha to the face 

Cell exploded IIRC.


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## Featherine (Mar 18, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> M8 SSJs are basically their Cell Games counterparts in power level
> 
> see Trunks and Vegeta going into their bulked-up SSJ forms



Are you sure about that ? Watched it again and I don't think they're that bulky:
Movie-

Ascended-


Vegeta does seem somehow bulky, but absolutely not on the level of what's shown in the anime when he goes Ascended. I'll be honest I always thought M8 was a bit after Frieza, and M10 a few years after Cell. it wouldn't make sense for all of them to have their ascended forms in that movie.

But then again, those movies are probably not even supposed to be put in the canon timeline.
Confusing 



Liquid said:


> M8 Broly took a Kamehameha to the face
> 
> Cell exploded IIRC.



A Kamehameha from a SSJ2 Gohan going absolutely ham with everything he had, aiming for that one-in-a-million chance Vegeta offered him, can't compare that to a pitiful KHH from Goku back then


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## Sablés (Mar 18, 2015)

This is one of the few movies that fit decently enough into canon. There was a 10 day timeframe in between training and the Cell games

and I was talking about Goku blowing Cell up.


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## Featherine (Mar 18, 2015)

And we know that during those 10 days, everyone was training their asses off (well, Goku and Gohan were kinda laid back, but at least they were constantly in SSJ forms, which they aren't in the movie), I also doubt Vegeta would stand around at a party if it was the case.

I'm not saying it's impossible of course, it's a non-canon movie after all, can't expect it to fit perfectly, but I don't know. I really always thought it was a bit after Frieza, only odd thing would be Gohan having SSJ transformation.

Ah yeah, that. I don't really see a problem with it, Perfect Cell was just toying around with Goku in fact, lowered his own power, and he let Goku charge to the max. Those are pretty crucial factors.


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## Brightsteel (Mar 18, 2015)

^^^Did Cell ever get a Zenkai boost from that? Goku taking off the entirety of his upper body?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 18, 2015)

no, no he did not


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## Featherine (Mar 18, 2015)

I don't think so, at least it's never stated. 

But then again, Goku said he could still sense his energy just fine, so Cell probably wasn't all that hurt (aka not near-death enough to trigger a zenkai). 

Just my thoughts.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 18, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Well yeah this is the debated part. I personally think Gohan was using SSJ2, because knowing the threat of Broly it wouldn't make sense not to be going all out. also given he was trashing SSJ's left and right in movie 8, I'd guess SSJ2.



Can Gohan even go SSj2 anymore now?
I doubt he even could then for the same reason.

 Broly is the strongest Broly can beat btw.


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## Sablés (Mar 18, 2015)

Featherine said:


> Ah yeah, that. I don't really see a problem with it, Perfect Cell was just toying around with Goku in fact, lowered his own power, and he let Goku charge to the max. Those are pretty crucial factors.



Cell is the one playing catch-up here and holding back an unquantiiable amount of power isn't giving enough of a reason to put him ahead of Broly who wasn't exactly pressed in messing with Goku + 3 other SSJs either. 

Man Anime-DB threads are a hassle.


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## Featherine (Mar 18, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Man Anime-DB threads are a hassle.



I agree 

I think it all comes down to the matter of SSJ2 Gohan or not. If he was then yeah, as Crimson Dragoon and you have said he should be Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan~Dabura~Perfect Cell level (they're all roughly in the same ballpark right ?).

If you think he wasn't he should be a bit lower.

And since AFAIK we don't really have any real absolute proof of that, then we're stuck with our own interpretation of the context.

Or as you said, a hassle, aha.


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## Atem (Mar 18, 2015)

So, we're going Toei canon then for both. 

Then I would say Perfect Cell (post, Zenkai) would beat him.


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## Dr. White (Mar 18, 2015)

KaiserWombat said:


> 1,400,000,000 is IIRC a Budokai 3 source (the same source which features a physical clash between LSSjin Broly and _*SSjin Gogeta*_), so it's complete rot as a valid number and should be disregarded completely for OBD vs debates at least.
> 
> Also, obligatory "Broly is just the _worst_" reference in a Broly thread.
> 
> ...



Oh wow wasn't expecting such a detailed response, thank you.

Btw, how much power do you think Gohan lost before his Buu Saga Training? Where would you rank him powerwise?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 18, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Oh wow wasn't expecting such a detailed response, thank you.
> 
> Btw, how much power do you think Gohan lost before his Buu Saga Training? Where would you rank him powerwise?



I'd put him somewhere but not too far below Super Perfect Cell but still above Perfect Cell. SSJ2 is still a significant upgrade over pretty much anyone during the Cell Games.


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## KaiserWombat (Mar 18, 2015)

What Musubi said, basically.

My opinion might also deviate somewhat depending on whether we're talking about Toriyama (manga/Y!SG&HFR/BoG+RoF) or Toei (anime/movies [M1 - M13]): in the former, we have an official multipler available for the jump between SSjin and SSjin 2 courtesy of the Super Exciting Guide databook (2x increase), which indicates that the gap in strength between, say, the likes of pre-Zenkai Perfect Cell and Dabra and the SSjin 2s simply cannot be all that sizable without sufficiently hard evidence to the contrary, which is not available.

Whereas Toei's continuity doesn't follow the standards of the SEG necessarily, and thus potentially anime-exclusive evidence may be available that indicates a larger or smaller exponential increase from transformations.

But generally speaking? I'd place Cell Budokai Gohan as somewhere around 1.25 - 1.3 times the overall power of pre-Kaioshin Buu Saga Gohan; a sufficiently noticeable drop in strength to be comment-worthy (and for Majin Vegeta to recognise surpassing the level of CB Gohan as being highly impressive and remarkable even for Goku), without defying the 2x boost set for the manga continuity at least and making Gohan lose an entire transformation's worth of power just by relaxing for 7 years.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 18, 2015)

About that whole power lose from relaxing, that statement from the manga spoilers make it seem pretty horrible if you go for a long period of time without training.


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## Gig (Mar 18, 2015)

Technically Cell pre Zenkai would beat him as well since Cell when backed into a corner by someone stronger than him will self destruct, as shown when Gohan outmatches him completely, and unlike Cell Broly lacks any form of regeneration meaning even if he is stronger initially Cell can simply outlast him, hell Toei Cell can absorb GT Goku who should be much stronger than Broly meaning Cell could attempt it on Broly


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## Featherine (Mar 18, 2015)

Yeah, except Goku was kid-sized then.

Do you imagine having to absorb a buff guy like Broly ? Cell would probably hurt himself even trying


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## Gig (Mar 18, 2015)

Featherine said:


> Yeah, except Goku was kid-sized then.
> 
> Do you imagine having to absorb a buff guy like Broly ? Cell would probably hurt himself even trying



Stab him with the needle and drink him ?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 18, 2015)

He absorbed those filler football players didn't he? 

Granted LSS Broly is even buffer than them.

Also maybe he ran into some part 1 giants


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## Featherine (Mar 18, 2015)

Forgot about that.

Thanks, now I'm free of the mental image of Cell trying to swallow someone 3 or 4 times his weight.


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## trance (Mar 18, 2015)

Brightsteel said:


> He was overpowered by the combined efforts of Goku, Gohan, and Goten each in the first level of Super Saiyan if I remember correctly.



Gohan was in SSJ2 form and even with Goku and Goten, Broly was overpowering their combined Kamehameha before Trunks did something to prevent Broly from increasing the power of his Omega Blaster. 

OT: Movie 10 Broly _might_ be able to tango with SSJ2 kid Gohan or Super Perfect Cell but I'd wager he'd lose more times than not. So, SSJ2 adult Gohan/Dabura is probably the strongest he can beat.


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## Dr. White (Mar 18, 2015)

What if I told you Goku was never really there


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 18, 2015)

Trance said:


> Gohan was in SSJ2 form and even with Goku and Goten, Broly was overpowering their combined Kamehameha before Trunks did something to prevent Broly from increasing the power of his Omega Blaster.
> 
> OT: Movie 10 Broly _might_ be able to tango with SSJ2 kid Gohan or Super Perfect Cell but I'd wager he'd lose more times than not. So, SSJ2 adult Gohan/Dabura is probably the strongest he can beat.



If he was SSJ2 then Goku wouldn't be relevant.


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## Gibbs (Mar 18, 2015)

Full Power Bojack probably.


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## trance (Mar 19, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> If he was SSJ2 then Goku wouldn't be relevant.



Considering a weaker version of Broly can absolutely dominate a stronger SSJ Gohan, it makes much more sense to conclude Gohan was a SSJ2 in their rematch.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Mar 19, 2015)

Broly is a terrible character and you should all feel terrible for posting ITT

/thread


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

SSj3 Goku [Buu Saga] > Movie 10 LSSj Broly > SSj2 Goku [Buu Saga]


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 19, 2015)

SPC > M10 Broly > M8 Broly > PC

Gohan was able to muster up some things vs M10 Broly (mostly the fact that he got out of the grapple) and Gohan was stated many times to be a lot weaker than his Cell Games counterpart.

M8 Broly tanked Goku's Kamehameha while Perfect Cell didn't.


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## GearsUp (Mar 19, 2015)

No form of ssj2 will lose to broly

So dabura and spc >>>

I'd just leave it at perfect cell, maybe max power


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

xmysticgohanx said:


> SPC > M10 Broly > M8 Broly > PC
> 
> Gohan was able to muster up some things vs M10 Broly (mostly the fact that he got out of the grapple) and Gohan was stated many times to be a lot weaker than his Cell Games counterpart.
> 
> M8 Broly tanked Goku's Kamehameha while Perfect Cell didn't.


In M10 Gohan stated he was "ready" to face Broly.

That's not what WT Gohan would say.


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## trance (Mar 19, 2015)

GearsUp said:


> No form of ssj2 will lose to broly
> 
> So dabura and spc >>>
> 
> I'd just leave it at perfect cell, maybe max power



Movie 10 Broly was easily overpowering SSJ2 adult Gohan. He should at least be able to compete with his stronger SSJ2 kid incarnation and Super Perfect Cell.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 19, 2015)

Perfect Cell then


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

Trance said:


> Movie 10 Broly was easily overpowering SSJ2 adult Gohan. He should at least be able to compete with his stronger SSJ2 kid incarnation and Super Perfect Cell.



Not to mention that M10 Gohan should still be on par with Kid Gohan, for the simple fact that it mentioned that he took his father's place and is ready to fight.


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## trance (Mar 19, 2015)

Even in the Toei anime, Vegeta said Gohan decreased in strength. So, no, he's not on par with his younger self.


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

Trance said:


> Even in the Toei anime, Vegeta said Gohan decreased in strength. So, no, he's not on par with his younger self.


Toei tends to differ from the anime and the manga at points.




You're using points from a decade ago, fam.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 19, 2015)

TittyNipple said:


> Toei tends to differ from the anime and the manga at points.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



[YOUTUBE]bSJodgDKaxw[/YOUTUBE]
Gohan the loser.


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> [YOUTUBE]bSJodgDKaxw[/YOUTUBE]
> Gohan the loser.



Judging from these points:

-Movie takes place before WT, meaning that anything that happens afterwards is irrelevant.
-I'm using a quote directly from the movie itself, compared to a quote from the anime which again, is in a different universe than the manga, which is in a different universe than the movie.
-Gohan defeated Cell after Movie 8, and Goku died from Cell. Gohan was chosen to replace Goku  He stated he was ready to fight Broly in Goku’s place. Buu Saga Gohan wouldn’t have been ready.
-His battle style seems to suggest that he wasn’t as rusty as his Buu Saga counterpart.

M10 Gohan ~ Kid Gohan.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 19, 2015)

TittyNipple said:


> Judging from these points:
> 
> -Movie takes place before WT, meaning that anything that happens afterwards is irrelevant.
> -I'm using a quote directly from the movie itself, compared to a quote from the anime which again, is in a different universe than the manga, which is in a different universe than the movie.
> ...



Lets ignore the age gap that says otherwise. 
Not that even some of the movies can be canon even to the anime.


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Lets ignore the age gap that says otherwise.
> *Not that even some of the movies can be canon even to the anime.*



This is incredibly false. The movies are meant to be a side story, Akira Toriyama said it himself (other than BoG and Resurrection F, of course). If the movies are canon to the anime, there should have been references all around, which there isn't.


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

I can take this a totally different route if wanted as well.

M10 Gohan > M8 Gohan, correct?

Where is M8 Gohan?

Take a look at Gohan's sash. Gohan's sash didn't switch from blue to red (due to Piccolo) until after the Room of Sun and Time. Since M10 is a direct sequel to M8, Gohan has defeated Cell and Goku is dead.


*Spoiler*: __ 










This means Gohan's strength in M8 should be relatively near his strength in the Cell Games tournament.


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## AgentAAA (Mar 19, 2015)

in all honesty, pretty sure timeline-wise literally no movie has a decent excuse for existing - save, perhaps, for the first broly movie, which even then is massively stretching.
Every other movie has timing issues that make it impossible, almost all of which due to Goku either recovering or just dead, and the few remaining discrepancies(like in dead zone) due to inconsistencies with side character appearances


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 19, 2015)

> This means Gohan's strength in M8 should be relatively near his strength in the Cell Games tournament.


You're basing your argument around a sash now.


AgentAAA said:


> in all honesty, pretty sure timeline-wise literally no movie has a decent excuse for existing - save, perhaps, for the first broly movie, which even then is massively stretching.
> Every other movie has timing issues that make it impossible, almost all of which due to Goku either recovering or just dead, and the few remaining discrepancies(like in dead zone) due to inconsistencies with side character appearances



Trunk's history, Bardock maybe?


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> You're basing your argument around a sash now.
> 
> 
> Trunk's history, Bardock maybe?



Basing it on the fact that the sash represents his appearance is post ROSAT.


Don't try playing kiddy games.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 19, 2015)

TittyNipple said:


> Basing it on the fact that the sash represents his appearance is post ROSAT.



It doesn't matter his age is of greater precedence than a sash.


> Don't try playing kiddy games.


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## The Weeknd (Mar 19, 2015)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> It doesn't matter his age is of greater precedence than a sash.



Saiyans don't grow weaker when they age...

Gohan said himself he got stronger.

Anywho, seems like you won't change your mind so I'm done, just know I brought more to the table for the argument.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 19, 2015)

TittyNipple said:


> Saiyans don't grow weaker when they age...



According to Toriyama, Goku and the other Z Fighters were at the peak of their power in Battle of Gods, and by the time of Uub's appearance, *their age* had caused their power to decrease


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 19, 2015)

I particularly recall Vegeta stating that Saiyan's maintain their peak body condition as they age so that they continue fighting for as long as possible. This makes sense since Saiyans seem to grow in stages,


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## Warlordgab (Mar 19, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I particularly recall Vegeta stating that Saiyan's maintain their peak body condition as they age so that they continue fighting for as long as possible. This makes sense since Saiyans seem to grow in stages,



That just a fancy way to say they age slower than humans


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 19, 2015)

TittyNipple said:


> Saiyans don't grow weaker when they age...



They are when they are shittier like adult gohan. There is a reason vegeta shat talked him so hard.


> I particularly recall Vegeta stating that Saiyan's maintain their peak body condition as they age so that they continue fighting for as long as possible. This makes sense since Saiyans seem to grow in stages,


Which gohan isn't.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 19, 2015)

I didn't say anything about Gohan in particular 

You can tell he's different from his growth alone.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Mar 19, 2015)

Adult Gohan (pre-mystic) is probably the strongest he can take.


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## trance (Mar 19, 2015)

TittyNipple said:


> Toei tends to differ from the anime and the manga at points.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Movie 10 came out like, 20 years ago, mate. 

So, this quote is just as outdated as Vegeta's two statements about Gohan's weakened powers, which Goku reluctantly agrees with after witnessing his performance against Dabura.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 19, 2015)

To be honest I trust the original series more for information compared to the new stuff, especially since Toriyama forgets so much.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 19, 2015)

Trance said:


> Movie 10 came out like, 20 years ago, mate.
> 
> So, this quote is just as outdated as Vegeta's two statements about Gohan's weakened powers, which Goku reluctantly agrees with after witnessing his performance against Dabura.



also, Gohan's probably referring to the events of the first Broly movie, where he didn't even have Super Saiyan 2


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## trance (Mar 19, 2015)

Dabura was stated to be on similar terms with Super Perfect Cell, who was implied to still be weaker than kid SSJ2 Gohan. Adult SSJ2 Gohan barely managed to fight on par with Dabura and seemed to only be able to damage him when Dabura got distracted.

And again...



Whereas Vegeta was shitting himself after witnessing Gohan's SSJ2 form against Cell, he downplays Gohan _using the exact same transformation_.


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## trance (Mar 19, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> also, Gohan's probably referring to the events of the first Broly movie, where he didn't even have Super Saiyan 2



This is also probable, which just lends more credence towards the conclusion that Gohan did, in fact, grow weaker.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 19, 2015)

Trance said:


> Movie 10 came out like, 20 years ago, mate.
> 
> So, this quote is just as outdated as Vegeta's two statements about Gohan's weakened powers, which Goku reluctantly agrees with after witnessing his performance against Dabura.



not to mention the qoute can have two meanings.
"I'm supposed."
Meaning...

Yep, it's pretty much gohan saying I'm not as strong as I should be.


> also, Gohan's probably referring to the events of the first Broly movie, where he didn't even have Super Saiyan 2


what CD said.


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## Nevermind (Mar 20, 2015)

4 pages.

Should have known.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Apr 11, 2015)

any ssj 2 tiered character without too much trouble. Broly tanked an kamehameha from goku at point blank range with absurd ease. the same kamehameha blew cell away to smitherens. This goku should be around the same level of power raw powerwise. the goku that fought cell sure as hell had more stamina and arguebly better ki control, the gap depends on how far through the broly events were meant to happen in the 10 days break.  Broly raped goku and trunks, piccolo and goku, goku and gohan, vegeta. I mean as regular ssj 1, Ascended vegeta couldn't do shit to him already. the gap between broly and goku and co is friggin humongous that he might as well be halway there to super perfect cell level and ssj2 gohan level. like maby buff cell level in terms of power.

Goku was equal with a surpressed form of regular cell exerting a decent amount of his power based of portrayal and cell's compliments. Having that cell at 60 percent of his power seems reasonable. still a noticable amount but als enough for him to power up considerably to full power regular perfect cell.

Movie 8 broly should definately be above regular perfect cell by a good amount but still be decently below ssj2 teen gohan and super perfect cell.

He should be like buff cell level.



In movie 10 Broly got a zenkai and there was an anime guidebook stating that regular movie 10 ssj1 broly>buu saga ssj1 goku.

Then he raped ssj2 adult gohan in 3 hits(yes I believe gohan was a ssj2 at that time, it made no sense for gohan to go ssj1 against a guy he can't do shit against as a ssj1 which he was stronger at at that time), forcing piccolo to intervene,

Broly lost the the combiend force of gohan, goku and goten. And even then it seemed as if broly couldn power up his omega blaster but got interuppted by kid trunks. 


while ssj2 gohan is definately weaker then he was at a kid. I doubt he got so friggishly week to the point that even after broly stomping him, that he'd still lose to any buu saga ssj2 tiered character.

Gohan still fought equally with dabura. And even if you wanna believe that goku was talking about cell at his weakest form possible. the highest powerlevel goku sensed off cell without any bullshit is that of buff fucking cell. which means dabura is atleast above>>full power perfectl cell by far. 


SSJ2 adult gohan shouldn't be that much weaker. He should be around halfway of his former self in terms of power.

considering

>ssj broly>ssj buu saga goku

>ssj2 adult gohan=atleast buff cell>>regular perfect cell

>Broly stomped ss2 gohan that easily

Then yes he should be stronger then any ssj2 tiered character.

He's definately not halway between ssj2 and ssj3 as some people say. I have him as ssj2 1/3.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 11, 2015)

meh, SPC would've done the same to Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan


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## Vasto Lorde King (Apr 11, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> meh, SPC would've done the same to Buu Saga SSJ2 Gohan



no way dude. 3 hits? you think he can take down gohan with 3 hits? look there is more hints that gohan isn't all of a sudden absolute fodder compared to his kid selfs aside from figting a cell level character at even footing.

Picollo said that vegeta surpassed gohan as a kid. Yet piccolo was worried that buu still defeated present day gohan.

Like vegeta is the one exxagarating gohan becoming fodder for some fucking reason. vegeta out of all people.


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## trance (Apr 13, 2015)

Dabura was gauged to be about on par with Super Perfect Cell, so I don't think Super Perfect Cell could beat adult SSJ2 Gohan as badly as Broly did. However, SPC was likely still weaker than kid SSJ2 Gohan. Not by a huge amount but still. Then, we have SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta being described as stronger than kid SSJ2 Gohan, probably making them top tier SSJ2 characters.

So, Broly is canonically stronger than adult SSJ2 Gohan but maybe not kid SSJ2 Gohan and probably not SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 13, 2015)

Controversial, but i'd put him between SSJ2 and 3 in power in movie 10 at least.


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Apr 13, 2015)

Can someone explain to me how Perfect Cells regeneration works? - Do you need to destroy every single cell in order to prevent him from regenerating and getting a zenkai? - If so, I don't think Broly has the overwhelming advantage needed over Super Perfect Cell in order to completely obliterate him. ( I know gohan did not have a overwhelming advantage over SPC but, it was the combined energies in both Cell and Gohan that killed him, not just Gohans attack, remember- cells own enery wave was redirected at him... 

So, I would put Broly as potentially "stronger" than Super Perfect Cell as a high end- but unable to defeat him due to a intelligence gap and a abilities gap ( Cell has teleportation and Regen) Which logically in regards to the OP, means that Broly pretty much stomps the DBZ cast up to SS2 tier+ level characters.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 13, 2015)

That's pretty much it, but Broly's omega blaster should do the trick .


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## Dr. White (Apr 13, 2015)

I think Broly has the raw stat/ Power advantage, but Cell isn't too far behind at all in those areas and is much more versatile in his skillset, and DNA.


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## Hand Banana (Apr 13, 2015)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Can someone explain to me how Perfect Cells regeneration works? - Do you need to destroy every single cell in order to prevent him from regenerating and getting a zenkai? - If so, I don't think Broly has the overwhelming advantage needed over Super Perfect Cell in order to completely obliterate him. ( I know gohan did not have a overwhelming advantage over SPC but, it was the combined energies in both Cell and Gohan that killed him, not just Gohans attack, remember- cells own enery wave was redirected at him...
> 
> So, I would put Broly as potentially "stronger" than Super Perfect Cell as a high end- but unable to defeat him due to a intelligence gap and a abilities gap ( Cell has teleportation and Regen) Which logically in regards to the OP, means that Broly pretty much stomps the DBZ cast up to SS2 tier+ level characters.



As it's explained in the manga.


*Spoiler*: __


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## reiko96 (Apr 15, 2015)

I have Movie 10 Broly around the same level as super saiyan 2 Goku and Vegeta, perhaps slightly stronger. Movie 8 Broly around Full Power Perfect Cell.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 15, 2015)

I don't know how anyone could say anything less than Super Perfect Cell is as strong as movie 8 Broly. Goku was able to fight regular perfect Cell on fairly even footing, yes he was losing and yes Cell was holding back, but not to the extent that he could replicate the beatdown Broly was giving Goku. And Gohan, who even in just SSJ1 was technically stronger than Goku. and he was beating both of them at the same time, easily, and didn't get a scratch on him.


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## trance (Apr 16, 2015)

With his zenkai, Cell made the full strength of his perfect form an utter joke in comparison. He went from not even being able to so much as faze SSJ2 Gohan with a direct punch to the face to being able to break his arm with an unnamed ki blast. That's a pretty substantial power up.

It's not outlandish to say that his Super Perfect form is _at least_ as strong as Movie 8 Broly. Probably stronger.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 17, 2015)

Trance said:


> With his zenkai, Cell made the full strength of his perfect form an utter joke in comparison. He went from not even being able to so much as faze SSJ2 Gohan with a direct punch to the face to being able to break his arm with an unnamed ki blast. That's a pretty substantial power up.
> 
> It's not outlandish to say that his Super Perfect form is _at least_ as strong as Movie 8 Broly. Probably stronger.



Super Perfect Cell sure, but some people think even perfect cell
Although Even then i'd give Broly the edge. Super Saiyan two is only a two times power up, and Goku at the end had to absorb more than twice his own power to defeat him.


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## Xeogran (Apr 17, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> According to Toriyama, Goku and the other Z Fighters were at the peak of their power in Battle of Gods, and by the time of Uub's appearance, *their age* had caused their power to decrease



This statement is then completely disregarded by Fukkatsu no F. And probably all other future movies will do it even further, with Goku and Vegeta getting stronger in each next movie.


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Apr 17, 2015)

Korosensei said:


> This statement is then completely disregarded by Fukkatsu no F. And probably all other future movies will do it even further, with Goku and Vegeta getting stronger in each next movie.



Actually, I don't think Fukkatsu no F contradicts the statement.- The only reason why Goku and Vegeta are getting stronger is due to God Ki. Without its interference, I think its pretty reasonable to believe that they were at the peak of there potential.


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## hammer (Apr 17, 2015)

but didn't vegeta become stronger then ssj3 goku because a cat slapped his bulma?


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## King Kakarot (Apr 17, 2015)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Actually, I don't think Fukkatsu no F contradicts the statement.- The only reason why Goku and Vegeta are getting stronger is due to God Ki. Without its interference, I think its pretty reasonable to believe that they were at the peak of there potential.



why would age be a factor for Saiyans when they live longer than humans?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 17, 2015)

when Perfect Cell powered up to his full strength, everyone was shitting themselves at how much stronger he was 

they literally thought it was impossible for him to be stronger than he already was before that, Vegeta especially 

in a series where a 1.2x difference in power can mean a curbstomping, I completely and fully believe Full Power Perfect Cell can replicate M8 LSSJ Broly's feat of manhandling everyone


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Apr 17, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> why would age be a factor for Saiyans when they live longer than humans?



Is that canon? How long do saiyans live? I thought it was a unconfirmed rumor that they lived longer than humans. 

Even if they do live longer, how much longer?- A regular human typically reaches his physical strength in his 20's,- this "peak" is followed by about 60 years of deteriorating strength. Basically, for humans there is only a small window ( relatively speaking) for peak physical performance.Sayains could work the same or similar biologically- which would explain why age would be a factor.


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## RevolutionGX (Apr 17, 2015)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> I don't know how anyone could say anything less than Super Perfect Cell is as strong as movie 8 Broly. Goku was able to fight regular perfect Cell on fairly even footing, yes he was losing and yes Cell was holding back, but not to the extent that he could replicate the beatdown Broly was giving Goku. And Gohan, who even in just SSJ1 was technically stronger than Goku. and he was beating both of them at the same time, easily, and didn't get a scratch on him.



It is as you said, Cell was suppressed.Moreover, Movie 8 Z-senshu are weaker than their Cell Games counterpart. This is evidence by the fact that Gohan is weakest super saiyan of the bunch.


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## The Weeknd (Apr 17, 2015)

Movie 8 LSSj Broly ~ FP PC.

Broly tanked a Full KHH from Goku. Goku dies from Cell, meaning Goku is just as strong as he was against Cell as he is against Broly, since Broly returns in the sequel movie.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 17, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> when Perfect Cell powered up to his full strength, everyone was shitting themselves at how much stronger he was
> 
> they literally thought it was impossible for him to be stronger than he already was before that, Vegeta especially
> 
> in a series where a 1.2x difference in power can mean a curbstomping, I completely and fully believe Full Power Perfect Cell can replicate M8 LSSJ Broly's feat of manhandling everyone



While i'm sure Vegeta Trunks and Piccolo aren't much of a challenge for him, Goku and especially Gohan wouldn't be kicked around like that.


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## The Weeknd (Apr 17, 2015)

I still can't believe that people truly believe M10 Gohan ~ Buu Saga Gohan.

This is the same Gohan that defeated Cell and said he is READY to defeat Broly just after he said HE himself got stronger and SSJ Broly is just as big as a monster LSSj Broly was from Movie 8.


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## AgentAAA (Apr 17, 2015)

TittyNipple said:


> I still can't believe that people truly believe M10 Gohan ~ Buu Saga Gohan.
> 
> This is the same Gohan that defeated Cell and said he is READY to defeat Broly just after he said HE himself got stronger and SSJ Broly is just as big as a monster LSSj Broly was from Movie 8.



except he didn't say "he got stronger" but something more along the lines of "He should be stronger".
Buu saga gohan's also the same gohan that defeated cell. just older. much like m10 gohan is.


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## The Weeknd (Apr 17, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> except he didn't say "he got stronger" but something more along the lines of "He should be stronger".
> Buu saga gohan's also the same gohan that defeated cell. just older. much like m10 gohan is.



Buu Saga Gohan wouldn't even last as long as M10 Gohan.

M10 Gohan was "prepared" to fight Broly. 

Buu Saga Gohan was scared to go Super Saiyan or even Super Saiyan 2 during the WT.


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## Hamaru (Apr 17, 2015)

Broly should be stronger than Cell, since in the first movie, Trunks, Vegeta, Picc, and Gohan all gave their power to Goku so that he could beat him.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Apr 18, 2015)

Guys I just noticed something. they are many forums in which discussing broly's power is a controversial topic. The term brolytard and brolyhater often gets' thrown around.

Here you can have people state that broly is somewhat stronger then the ssj2 tier characters in the buu saga, and you don't get immeadatly lynched as you would on other forums or youtube(oh god youtube)

But at the same time you can say broly is weaker then any ssj2. And nobody calls you a brolyhater.

Heck if you said one of the above at either a drandosk video or vegito1089. You'd get annaly raped from which ever side the opposition is to you.


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