# Shirou vs Soul Eater



## AliceKumo (Dec 29, 2012)

After witnessing this: 





I had a sudden urge to make a thread with him... well not him but you know what i mean.


Shirou gets dumped into the Soul Eater verse, how far does he get?

Scenario 1: Fate
Scenario 2: UBW
Scenario 3: HF


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## Crimson King (Dec 29, 2012)

When in doubt

Gae Bolg


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## TehChron (Dec 29, 2012)

Shirou as a damn Caster, huh?

That seems...oddly unimaginative, somehow. I mean, whats the point? Hes a shitty mage outside.projection. Even as Archer. And what benefits does he receive, exactly? Extended duration of projections? No rank downgrading?

He just becomes a shittier Gil.

Also he stops at Black Star and Stein.in all three for sure. I doubt he can handle Maka and Soul outside of HF. And the only one truly resistant to getting burned to death is likely Fate.

Thats just what Im recalling off Spartoi. Im pretty.sure any Death Scythe and their.partner could put him down as well. Especially Justin.


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## Tacocat (Dec 29, 2012)

Are Black*Star and Stein even in the same league? 
I mean, Noah's creatures were manhandling the entire team of teachers, and Kid and B*S came in and casually fucked them up. Though, I guess that was with the madness boost, and Stein with madness decimated Justin.


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## TehChron (Dec 29, 2012)

Stein had been holding them.off with DS for several hours as well.

As they infinitely regenerated.

Rather than him using Mary, which enabled his stomp of Justin, in addition, he and BS sparred.at the beginning of the arc so Stein could measure his progress. They were about equal.


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## Tacocat (Dec 29, 2012)

Sounds legit.

What about Kid and Black*Star, though? I mean, I know Kid stated that B*S was slightly stronger than him a few chapters back, but how much water does that hold when Kid can casually activate his Sanzu lines now? Seems a bit fallacious if you ask me.

Someone needs to make a Soul Eater tier-list


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## Huntring (Dec 29, 2012)

TehChron said:


> Rather than him using Mary, which enabled his stomp of Justin, in addition, he and BS sparred.at the beginning of the arc so Stein could measure his progress. They were about equal.



Isn't that before BS got the insanity upgrade?

He should be stronger know.



SuperTacocat said:


> Sounds legit.
> 
> What about Kid and Black*Star, though? I mean, I know Kid stated that B*S was slightly stronger than him a few chapters back, but how much water does that hold when Kid can casually activate his Sanzu lines now? Seems a bit fallacious if you ask me.
> 
> Someone needs to make a Soul Eater tier-list



It's hard to compare the two when BS hasn't done anything significant recently.

I would like to think their equal though but I have little to back it up.

As for a tier list....... a rough one would be:

Top Tier-Asura, Shinigami, maybe current Crona

High Tier-Crona, BS, Death the Kid, Top level Witchs (Medusa for example), Most Deathscythes, Stein

Mid Tier-Current Maka, Most of Spartio with the exception of Death the Kid and BS.

Low Tier-Start of Series Cast


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## Sablés (Dec 29, 2012)

Kotomine.....Shirou.


Looks like Kirei fused with Xemnas.


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## Huntring (Dec 29, 2012)

~King of Heroes~ said:


> Kotomine.....Shirou.
> 
> 
> Looks like Kirei fused with Xemnas.




*Spoiler*: __


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## Boomy (Dec 30, 2012)

TehChron said:
			
		

> That seems...oddly unimaginative, somehow. I mean, whats the point? Hes a shitty mage outside.projection. Even as Archer. And what benefits does he receive, exactly? Extended duration of projections? No rank downgrading?


Are you aware that F/A happens in the alternate universe? Shirou here could be very well master magus.

As for the thread itself.

If he gets "dumped" that means he fights them all at once? Can you specify?

Edit: Oh well, I'll just assume he fights them one-on-one.

Fate goes down quickly, he traced Caliburn but needed Saber for that. He can play with his bow and reinforcment but meh.

UBW should take most if not all, Shirou could just trace Gae Bolg and one shoot everyone if it that's under assumption that he has enough prana(seeing as he spamed NP in his fight with Gilgamesh I guess he has). Nobody can speedblitz him seeing he fought with Archer on even grounds(at leat at the end). Durability is a bitch, but he has Rho Aias.

HF would go far but I doubt he would clear. Altough he has the best stats he lacks skills to kill them all. With NLBW he could one shoot anyone(+ no chance of dodging it, seeing a speed calc), the same goes for Excalibur(it's not like he can trace it many times though). Durability would be better as his body was covered in swords. He could take the Shroud and gain Archer knowledge too but no. I doubt he could clear.


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## AliceKumo (Dec 30, 2012)

It's been confirmed that he's a Master. That's Kotomine Shirou, sent by the church to watch over than HGW. It's not yet established who his Servant is gonna be (sadly Mordred is already taken, would have been funny if he was the Servant os Shirou).

As for the thread, i'd put most hopes in HF Shirou, and yeah assume he is in a kind of sandbox mode but mostly fights them one on one.


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## Sygurgh (Dec 30, 2012)

*KOTOMINE* Shirou?
*Magus* Shirou?



I'll keep outside this thread as I don't know much about Soul Eather.


BoomBaeBoom said:


> seeing as he spamed NP in his fight with Gilgamesh I guess he has


Shirou had access to Rin's magic in UBW.


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## TehChron (Dec 30, 2012)

Kotomine shirou means proper magus training.

And he has, what? Over 30 natural magic circuits?

Thats broke as fuck. Only drawbacks are that no Avalon and no Kiritsugu mean no UBW.  But that also comes down to what his non-sword affinity is


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## Boomy (Dec 30, 2012)

AliceKumo said:
			
		

> It's been confirmed that he's a Master. That's Kotomine Shirou, sent by the church to watch over than HGW. *It's not yet established who his Servant* is gonna be (sadly Mordred is already taken, would have been funny if he was the Servant os Shirou).


Actually it is. Semiramis, Red Assassin.


			
				TehChron said:
			
		

> Thats broke as fuck. Only drawbacks are that no Avalon and *no Kiritsugu mean no UBW*. But that also comes down to what his non-sword affinity is


Wut?


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## TehChron (Dec 30, 2012)

UBW is the result of both Shirou taking on Kiritsugus ideals to be a hero, empowered by Avalon altering his nature into a double Sword affinity.

Only question is if he retains his prodigious projection talent, but still, people with that many magic.circuits, and are trained, are pretty broken in their own right. Its crazy to imagine.


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## brolyeuphyfusion (Dec 30, 2012)

soul eater wins easily, shirou has less than 0% chance of winning


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## Boomy (Dec 30, 2012)

His ideals are not issue here. He has sword origin. It was gifted he would acquire UBW.


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## brolyeuphyfusion (Dec 30, 2012)

There is nothing shirou can do, soul eater as all the advantages and would win easily


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## Boomy (Dec 30, 2012)

@TehChron, it seems I misunderstood you  yeah, you're right, it was Avalon who changed his Elemental Affinity and Origin to sword.


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## Zombehs (Dec 30, 2012)

TehChron said:


> Shirou as a damn Caster, huh?
> 
> That seems...oddly unimaginative, somehow. I mean, whats the point? Hes a shitty mage outside.projection. Even as Archer. And what benefits does he receive, exactly? Extended duration of projections? No rank downgrading?
> 
> He just becomes a shittier Gil.



*Completely Off Topic*
I actually imagine Shirou as a Caster would be downright frightening. Territory Creation would allow him to create an area where UBW would be able to function more effectively.

Item Construction would probably lend itself in some way or form to his Projection magic.

Add to the fact that Casters generally have the highest Mana attribute out of all Servants, and that was Shirou's main problem in calling out UBW (lack of mana), he'll be spamming weapons all day, every day.

Then there's the whole Reinforcement magic to buff up his stats, and he gains mastery of any weapon he creates?

I imagine he'd be a bloody surprise to most people. Caster beating your ass down with weapons? Surprise.


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## Boomy (Dec 30, 2012)

So it goes like that.

Fate: loses
UBW: likely clear, if it's one-on-one ofc
HF: goes far bu--wait, he's healed after each fight? If yes then he one shoots everyone


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## TehChron (Dec 30, 2012)

BoomBaeBoom said:


> His ideals are not issue here. He has sword origin. It was gifted he would acquire UBW.



If ideals werent an issue UBW wouldnt have invaded him in HF, it just would have been his body breaking down from the strain of using Archer's arm.

UBW is a crystallization of his inner world, as a reality marble. Not everyone with a double sword affinity gets it  after all.


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## Boomy (Dec 30, 2012)

Yeah I know. I was thinking about something diff, nevermind.


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## Spirit King (Dec 30, 2012)

Zombehs said:


> *Completely Off Topic*
> I actually imagine Shirou as a Caster would be downright frightening. Territory Creation would allow him to create an area where UBW would be able to function more effectively.
> 
> Item Construction would probably lend itself in some way or form to his Projection magic.
> ...


Thinking about it Caster actually suits him better than archer does though archer does give him that independent action he loves so much and inately better combat stats. Since really class stats don't mean to much to him, and he's not best at raw combat anyway it's kinda of a waste.Tracing ability ups his parameters anyway by simply copying the originals, the more mana for him the better as it means more swords he can use however. His only issue outside of prana is bodily strain from using someone elses speed and strength etc. 

Basically his close quarters combat prowess comes inspite of his affinity for it.



TehChron said:


> If ideals werent an issue UBW wouldnt have invaded him in HF, it just would have been his body breaking down from the strain of using Archer's arm.
> 
> UBW is a crystallization of his inner world, as a reality marble. Not everyone with a double sword affinity gets it  after all.



Yeah HF Shirou can't use UBW full stop because his ideal was different. Symbolically UBW is his ideal, the only answer arrived by someone whose lived his entire life as a sword.

Thinking about it HF Shirou is pretty useless without archer's arm. Even in comparison to Fate or UBW. His archery came from his ability to completely remove typial human wants and wish, which while he's still selfless in a way he's also pretty selfish in his treatment of Sakura, (basically his whole risking world destruction deal for her) and also obviously his lack of wish to become a sword removes UBW, though I'm not sure if it removes tracing itself.


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## Kazu (Dec 30, 2012)

Spirit King said:


> Yeah HF Shirou can't use UBW full stop because his ideal was different. Symbolically UBW is his ideal, the only answer arrived by someone whose lived his entire life as a sword.
> 
> Thinking about it HF Shirou is pretty useless without archer's arm. Even in comparison to Fate or UBW. His archery came from his ability to completely remove typial human wants and wish, which while he's still selfless in a way he's also pretty selfish in his treatment of Sakura, (basically his whole risking world destruction deal for her) and also obviously his lack of wish to become a sword removes UBW, though I'm not sure if it removes tracing itself.


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## willyvereb (Dec 30, 2012)

Yeah, HF Shirou is still capable of UBW.
It's just a bit different compared to what Archer and other Shirou's possess.
Hence being incompatible.


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## TehChron (Dec 30, 2012)

Eh, speculation isn't a feat.

Additionally, she cites it as being "his reality marble", which may or may not be UBW. Emiya Shirou may just have a natural aptitude gor manifesting his Reality Marble,.its certainly not a common ability.


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## Kazu (Dec 30, 2012)

TehChron said:


> Eh, speculation isn't a feat.
> 
> Additionally, she cites it as being "his reality marble", which may or may not be UBW. Emiya Shirou may just have a natural aptitude gor manifesting his Reality Marble,.its certainly not a common ability.



Well, yes. Chances are however, it will be UBW, or something similar. 

But speculation is pointless as for all intents and purposes, GARm Shirou isn't going to be using UBW.


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## TehChron (Dec 30, 2012)

You know  the ugly thing about UBW is that, despite how badass it is, it shows just how mind numbingly stupid Shirou is.


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## Spirit King (Dec 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Yeah, HF Shirou is still capable of UBW.
> It's just a bit different compared to what Archer and other Shirou's possess.
> Hence being incompatible.



No he's capable of a reality marble not UBW. He doesn't even have the same body anymore, much weaker magic circuits so it'd probably completely different. He probably couldn't even handle the strains naturally for something like UBW

UBW is a pretty much a direct personification of his ideal was linked to his original body through avalon changing his origin etc. I'd say it's pretty unlikely his reality marble would be all that similar, consider his ideals changed, his body has changed, his body is weaker.

Doesn't even make sense it would similar to UBW since UBW is a representation of his inner world, Archer's and UBW Shirou's inner world were filled with swords because they lived they're lifes as a sword,a completely selfless tool. HF Shirou isn't living his life s a sword nor does he even have the same body as before which was rejecting and actively killing him because of differences in ideals.



TehChron said:


> You know  the ugly thing about UBW is that, despite how badass it is, it shows just how mind numbingly stupid Shirou is.


I wouldn't consider it stupid. Considering how many different ways people live there lives, wanting to live an entirely selfless is far from the worst. I'd actually consider it intregrity because it's ridiculously easy to do the opposite. It doesn't even take any effort and isn't exactly something to admire.


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## willyvereb (Dec 31, 2012)

Spirit King said:


> No he's capable of a reality marble not UBW. He doesn't even have the same body anymore, much weaker magic circuits so it'd probably completely different. He probably couldn't even handle the strains naturally for something like UBW
> 
> UBW is a pretty much a direct personification of his ideal was linked to his original body through avalon changing his origin etc. I'd say it's pretty unlikely his reality marble would be all that similar, consider his ideals changed, his body has changed, his body is weaker.
> 
> Doesn't even make sense it would similar to UBW since UBW is a representation of his inner world, Archer's and UBW Shirou's inner world were filled with swords because they lived they're lifes as a sword,a completely selfless tool. HF Shirou isn't living his life s a sword nor does he even have the same body as before which was rejecting and actively killing him because of differences in ideals.


Wrong on 3 points.
1.) Shirou's puppet body isn't any weaker than his original. He just needs to get used to it. Which would naturally take a while.
2.) HF Shirou's Reality Marble is still UBW or something very similar to it. Rin's high expectations for the day once Shirou masters his RM are implying it as such.
3.) Shirou didn't completely abandon his ideal. More like he purified it and realized the true essence of that. Hence Shirou starts to actually think for himself.
4.) Shirou's body didn't reject him or anything. His existence was ravaged by the massive prana of a Counter Guardian. Archer's superior status and experience made him above what Shirou was. So you could say that the pressure of Archer's superior existence was swallowing the mortal Shirou.

Oh, was it 4?
My mistake.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 31, 2012)

He only abandoned the idea of a superhero in the sense of saving everyone around him.

He still saved the one that mattered to him, which was Sakura. 

Which is ironic considering he was the most heroic in HF despite abandoning the idea of heroism.


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## Spirit King (Dec 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Wrong on 3 points.
> 1.) Shirou's puppet body isn't any weaker than his original. He just needs to get used to it. Which would naturally take a while.
> 2.) HF Shirou's Reality Marble is still UBW or something very similar to it. Rin's high expectations for the day once Shirou masters his RM are implying it as such.
> 3.) Shirou didn't completely abandon his ideal. More like he purified it and realized the true essence of that. Hence Shirou starts to actually think for himself.
> ...



Yes it is it has a lower amount of magic circuits,
Umm no that's an assumption on your end at best, she simply implied he could bring out an reality marble not that it would be UBW (she doesn't even understand how to reality marbles work since implied it 

Third part doesn't even make sense and is an opinion at best.

Yes he did it was explicitly stated in HF also completely ignores what Nasu wrote in HF. Did you like ignore Archer's speech, and Shirou's monologue where he states that the his body was destroying him because of the crimes he had commited, in betraying his ideal he couldn't be more explict. Large amounts of HF were dedicated to this. 
This is all the symbolic meanings which also played a part in the physical which was a common theme thoughout F/SN
There's personal interpretation and then there's blatant ignoring what was said in the story.

Reread HF Willy or at least reread Shirou's monologues in HF post recieving his arm.


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## Crimson King (Dec 31, 2012)

Oh sorry, was this a vs thread? I thought it was a nasu thread


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## willyvereb (Dec 31, 2012)

Spirit King said:


> Yes it is it has a lower amount of magic circuits,


Because you say so?
At least you could use something for reference.
As far as I'm aware the problem is with Shirou still not being used to his body thus his magic circuits are inactive.



> second is doesn't even make sense and is an opinion at best. Also completely ignores what Nasu wrote iun HF as he explictly stated Shirou abandoned the ideal (he couldn't be more explict.


You should really learn a thing or two about speech, hyperbole and the contradictions of the human thoughts.
Yes, even Shirou said he had abandoned his ideal.
But his actions tell it differently. Like Raidou said Shirou became an even greater hero than he was in Fate or UBW.
His ideal did change but Shirou didn't became someone completely different.

As for the issue about HF Shirou's RM, the only part where it implies that Shirou might be unable to use UBW is in the fight against Dark Berserker.
But then he does perform Tracing so it isn't like HF Shirou has a completely different power.
So whatever his RM is, it is bound to be similar to UBW.
Similarly, Rin didn't see Shirou performing any ability besides Tracing. Her being hopeful of Shirou's RM means it would most likely similar to UBW.

It's amusing how you accuse me for not reading HF when apparently it's actually you failing to read between the lines.
You rely on a single sentence while in opposition I have the majority of HF's plot.
Good job missing the obvious.



> Yes it did.


There's no mention of Shirou's body rejecting him and especially not because of something as trivial as him getting rid off an ideal.
Kirei,Rin and even Shirou states that it's Archer's arm doing the nasty work.

Getting mad before New Years?
Man, you have too much time.
But seriously, you aren't putting up the faintest bit of effort here to actually debate.


Well, not like I do much either. 
Besides, I'll be gone soon.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 31, 2012)

Shiro still has a knack for Blades. He'd probably be able to still use UBW ala UBW route where he can do so on his own but without being the same as Archer if he ever decides to get back on the horse again. It was just that for the part he was incompatible with Archer. It'd be like having a lvl 10 character trying to use skills and equipment from a lvl 50 character, from a completely different Job class.


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## Spirit King (Dec 31, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Shiro still has a knack for Blades. He'd probably be able to still use UBW ala UBW route where he can do so on his own but without being the same as Archer if he ever decides to get back on the horse again. It was just that for the part he was incompatible with Archer. It'd be like having a lvl 10 character trying to use skills and equipment from a lvl 50 character, from a completely different Job class.



Reality marble isn't an easy thing to acquire it was implied normally takes 20 years to achieve. UBW only achieved it as fast as he did because he had the same ideal as archer did as well as having his abilites flow into him. HF Shirou can't do that, since they're ideas a radically different, so he'd have to do it the old fashioned way. Less magic circuits also will affect it. Basically he may be able to trace swords, but there's a good chance he won't be able to bring out UBW though Reality marbles come in many shapes, and it'll it's implied it'd take him a long to do, like Archer originally had to.



willyvereb said:


> Because you say so?
> At least you could use something for reference.
> As far as I'm aware the problem is with Shirou still not being used to his body thus his magic circuits are inactive.
> 
> ...



Yeah no it's pretty clear you did not see the obvious holes in this whole thing which I purposefully left out. Interpretation comes in many forms there's no way to say which is the one author was trying to imply without him explictly saying so, so it comes down to personal opinions. I could make a pretty long arguement stating it could be interpretated another way I've done so many times and it always coms down to the same things. Thinking your way is the only way it could be interpratated is pretty narrow minded, that's why I chose to stick with the empirical. The author stated Shirou abandoned his ideals, and stated his body was rejecting him due to the difference of ideals. I'm leaving  it at that as otherwise we'd end up going around in circles. 

No putting an effort to debate, no shit because were not dealing in empirical things anymore meaning there are no right answers the closest thing would be authors intention which without direct statements we don't know. I've had enough HF arguements to not be bothered going through this shit again. You want a morals discussion and I can't be bothered with that shit, so I'm just stating what I empirically know. The lower circuits i read in Fate/Complete material III i'll see if I can find a source later if I can bothered but don't hold your breath.

Reading in between the lines can lead to many things that author didn't intend to be there. It's a fine discussion to engage in I'm just surprised you haven't gotten bored to death repeating again and again as I'm sure you probably have done.


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## Kazu (Dec 31, 2012)

Spirit King said:


> Yes it is it has a lower amount of magic circuits,
> Umm no that's an assumption on your end at best, she simply implied he could bring out an reality marble not that it would be UBW (she doesn't even understand how to reality marbles work since implied it
> 
> Third part doesn't even make sense and is an opinion at best.
> ...



1) It's said that Shirou has weaker, not less magic circuits.

2) Yes, there's a chance that his reality marble isn't UBW. But guess what his origin and element still are. 

3) Standard issue heaven's feel debate. Proceed. 

4) There's a reason Shirou had to use the Shroud of Martin.



Crimson King said:


> Oh sorry, was this a vs thread? I thought it was a nasu thread



Nasu thread, therefore derail


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## Spirit King (Dec 31, 2012)

Kazuakisama said:


> 1) It's said that Shirou has weaker, not less magic circuits.
> 
> 2) Yes, there's a chance that his reality marble isn't UBW. But guess what his origin and element still are.
> 
> ...



See this guys get's it. Empirical and to the point. I'm sorry willy but I don't want to engage in the standard HF argument.


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## TehChron (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow.

You guys totally don't understand why "living my life as a sword" is a foolish and naive ideal. Willy understands to a point, but basically, HF Shirou was having his previous ideal try to overpower his newfound resolve to give up everything for the thing he wanted most. Although the incompatibility helped.

Between the two ideals,.one of abandonment and one of empowerment, they are fundamentally dissimilar.

The argument shouldn't be about UBW, after the events of HF, its gone, so speculation on that fronts pointless. But it would probably be something significantly more powerful.


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## Kazu (Dec 31, 2012)

I think Kiritsugu and Archer made that exceptionally clear


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## Spirit King (Dec 31, 2012)

Kazuakisama said:


> I think Kiritsugu and Archer made that exceptionally clear



And UBW Shirou didn't give a shit because the end result wasn't what mattered. What mattered was following what you believed in regardless of what the consequences were since what he believed in "living a life of selflessness" wasn't fundamentlly wrong. I think that's what people don't get about UBW. He's doing it because he enjoys doing it and finds the concept beautiful like say a volunteer. The path itself is in no way wrong or foolish simply different.

It's like people completely forget what Kotomine said. Shirou actually derives his happiness from his selflessness like kotomine can only derive his happiness from his various acts since they're opposites. The issue with Archer was that he lost track with the end result.

It's why he won his fight with Archer and ultimately convinced Archer because the path Archer took wasn't a mistake, because a life dedicated to the happiness of others is not wrong. The only reason he's on the path was out of admiration for Kiritsugu when he saved him, it's like having your life saved by a doctor and wanting to become a doctor.


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## TehChron (Dec 31, 2012)

Which is a flawed way to live.

In the end he still falls to his ideals and remains empty.

As was Kotomine.

The ideal isnt wrong, but he made the same mistakes as Kiritsugu did , which Kiritsugu himself didnt realize until the end of Zero. Thats why he's an idiot. He beat Archer because he had conviction, Archer was merely lost.

HF Shirou would casually stomp UBW Shirou for that very reason, with or without Archer's arm.


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