# Goku (DBZ not GT) vs War Hulk



## Green Lantern (Jul 4, 2005)

Who would win?
Goku from the end of DBZ that is- no rubbish SSJ4 or any other bs DBGT stuff
VS
War Hulk- one of the stronger incarnations of the Hulk- managed to stop Juggernaut in his tracks and threw him a couple of miles

No planetary destruction allowed by either parties obviously- who would win?

Goku would be able to SSJ3 and Spirit Bomb Hulk from the relative safety of far up in the clouds- however would ki blasts be counted as radiation and could the Hulk absorb such energy/regenerate from such a devastating attack?

The Heat Will Be On!


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## Ganj (Jul 4, 2005)

Man...this is an interesting one. Goku is one of my favorite characters, but that's to say, how would stand up against *War Hulk*?! And to be honest, I've never even seen War Hulk for that matter. So I'm completely in dark as to War Hulk's abilities so...but given that War Hulk is the strongest incarnation of the original Hulk....I'll go with Goku. Reason? *Ascended Saiyan*! He can "hulk out" to tremendous sizes himself if he wants, and that's not to mention SS2 and 3. So I guess I'm leaning more towards *Goku*.

....But the Hulk destroyed an asteroid BIGGER THAN the Earth....


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## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

He's not the strongest(maybe top 3), and you've never even seen him...
He has weapons/armor, he's literally War, as one of Apocalypse's horsemen.  He nearly decapitated Juggernaught and literally stopped him in his foot steps.  Goku may be good, but he can't match up to that.


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## Ganj (Jul 4, 2005)

Insipidipity said:
			
		

> He's not the strongest(maybe top 3), and you've never even seen him...
> He has weapons/armor, he's literally War, as one of Apocalypse's horsemen.  He nearly decapitated Juggernaught and literally stopped him in his foot steps.  Goku may be good, but he can't match up to that.


On a physical level, "No". Goku cannot compete with Hulk. But thinking about the fight against Kid Buu, who was essentially 'nothing' in essense, Goku managed to take him out in the end. And to top that, Goku's energy levels are a totally different game than Hulk's. My wager is that a well-placed Super Dragon Fist followed up by a full-blast Warp Kamahameha would definately do some damage.


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## Deleted member 15401 (Jul 4, 2005)

ps: goku can fly, use instant transmission

not that it matters, seeing as he already moves at lightspeed (no he doesnt really, but im just saying that because he does move incredibly fast)


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## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

War Hulk, he regenerates so well he makes Buu look like a leper.  Stopping the Juggernaut is physically impossible, as in the laws of physics were rewritten to say he cannot be stopped, yet he did it.


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## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

The hulk can jump into orbit not need to breathe, his body is strong enough to handle it, and he has insane accuracy at hitting fast moving targets.  He can throw a rock and knock a supersonic jet out of the sky.


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## Final Ultima (Jul 4, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> War Hulk, he regenerates so well he makes Buu look like a leper.


Which; in itself, is completely insane. Marvel creations are so proposterous, yet hilarious in their nigh-omnipotency.


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## Takuza (Jul 4, 2005)

Goku would teleport behind the hulk, grab him, teleport to some far of plaent, and teleport back home. that way its a tie. other than taht....the hulk would continue to hit try and hit goku while goku dodges....but goku soon gets tired, so hulk wins.........

not that this matters...but is goku allowed to blow up HALF the panet??


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## CrazyMoronX (Jul 4, 2005)

Goku would probably pull out his old time favorite trump card: Kamhemaheha into the sun. I doubt Hulk can neither get away from the sun since it has nothing physical to jump off of, and he could possibly be destroyed by it, who's to say?

Either way, Hulk will lie in the center of the sun for all eternity.

If he manages to come back from the sun, well Goku could teleoprt him into a black hole.


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## sundis (Jul 4, 2005)

Actually a while ago there was a comic where Goku fought Superman. I forget who published it, but it obviously had DC comic's permission(among others). In the same comic Spiderman fought Vash the stampede.

Anyway superman was able to hold out and it looked like a good fight... until Goku went until SS-mode. After that I think Goku one-hit Superman with kamahame.

I dont think the Hulk in any variation can beat Superman let alone Goku. Keep in mind Goku can destroy planets. 

War Hulk compared to the other Hulks is just a small/marginable power boost. Goku transforming multiplys his strength 100x's of times. Well according to some power charts.


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## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

Didn't Hulk nearly destroy Earth as well.  Either him or superman, but I'm pretty sure it was him.

Hulk has been hit by weapons designed to kill a god and survived... silly kamehameha wouldnt do jack.


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## sundis (Jul 4, 2005)

It's possible; I dont follow Hulk much. But even in the marvel universe he's not that strong. He's strong in earth-terms. But beings like the silver-surfer and above are much stronger -- I think there's a power chart on collector cards, or even marvel's homepage.

Goku would probably be considered one of those other worldly heroes. 

Superman I could see almost destroying earth -- in some comics he's crazy strong.


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## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

> It's possible; I dont follow Hulk much. But even in the marvel universe he's not that strong. He's strong in earth-terms. But beings like the silver-surfer and above are much stronger


Who cares that SS and above are more powerful?  Also, the Hulk is stronger than Galactus, in pure strength, and Galactus is way more powerful than the SS, whose sole source of power is a fraction of Galactus that was given to him.  They would take Goku out in a fraction of a millisecond.  It is like saying A>B and A>C, therefore B>C.  Hulk is actually ridiculously strong, in any terms.  He lifted 150 billion tons, the world's strongest heroes lift 100 tons.



> After that I think Goku one-hit Superman with kamahame.


Even if he did that is utter crap.  Superman has taken way more powerful blows than that, and not even cared.  Kamehame in SS1 mode can destroy a planet, he has taken way worse than that.  Crossover comics are not reliable at all, they are worse than filler.  Storm beat WW, that just isn't possible.

Nothing Goku can do would hurt the Hulk for long.  Look at this, and the beam is stronger than a Kamehame.

I want to point out that all he says when he comes back is "shut up and get me some pants"

He once got disembowled and decided to hold in his guts, and then his body healed so fast his hands actually got stuck inside him, and he had to rip them out and have it heal again.

Here are some feats of strength.


			
				Tsukiyoumi said:
			
		

> The Hulk in the secret wars lifted a mountain weighing 150 billion tons or 300 trillion pounds (300,000,000,000,000lbs).
> 
> The Hulk shattered a meteor twice the size of the Earth.
> 
> ...


All of that, except Maestro, was done by someone way weaker than War Hulk.



> War Hulk compared to the other Hulks is just a small/marginable power boost. Goku transforming multiplys his strength 100x's of times. Well according to some power charts.


The Hulk multiplys his strength 1500000000x times.  So just because he doesn't turn blonde doesn't mean he can't power up.  The madder he gets the stronger he gets, with no limit, none.  Say Goku got as strong as the Hulk, then the Hulk would get stronger.  Every punch he throws makes him stronger, even punch he takes makes him stronger.  Goku is powerful, and gets more powerful as he fights, but he never got over a billion times stronger in a single fight.


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## Takuza (Jul 4, 2005)

I agree with Gooba for the most part in the hulk winning this, but I do like the Idea of Goku blasting the hulk into the sun. as far as I know, the hulk couldn't do anything to stop it if goku got in the right spot. please do correct me if I am wrong however.


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## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

I bet he would just keep getting pissed that he couldn't get out, and eventually get strong enough to get off just by pushing on the plasma.

There is no way for Goku to kill the Hulk, so even if, and that is a big if, the Hulk can't kill Goku, Hulk wins.  Goku ages, the Hulk doesn't.  Wolverine has lived for centuries, and his healing factor is way worse than Buu, who like I said is a leper compared to the Hulk.

For those of you saying Goku is too fast, SS is faster, way faster, and the Hulk was able to grab his board out of the air.

I wonder when Tsu will show up and pwn everyone with his awesomeness.


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

crazymoronx said:
			
		

> Goku would probably pull out his old time favorite trump card: Kamhemaheha into the sun. I doubt Hulk can neither get away from the sun since it has nothing physical to jump off of, and he could possibly be destroyed by it, who's to say?
> 
> Either way, Hulk will lie in the center of the sun for all eternity.
> 
> If he manages to come back from the sun, well Goku could teleoprt him into a black hole.



Teleport into the sun/blackhole? WTF? First of all, Instantaneous Movement needs a ki signature to lock on to, Gokuu is not gonna find that in a black hole. And even if he does teleport to one, he's a goner as well.

Gokuu is insanely weak compared to the Hulk, Base Gokuu in the Buu saga couldnt lift 40 tons...if Hulk gets his hands on Gokuu, Gokuu will be broken like a twig.

The only thing Gokuu has going for him is his speed, but what's speed going to do to someone Gokuu cant even harm?


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## Takuza (Jul 4, 2005)

^ lol, true. Gooba


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## Codde (Jul 4, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> Teleport into the sun/blackhole? WTF? First of all, Instantaneous Movement needs a ki signature to lock on to, Gokuu is not gonna find that in a black hole. And even if he does teleport to one, he's a goner as well.
> 
> Gokuu is insanely weak compared to the Hulk, Base Gokuu in the Buu saga couldnt lift 40 tons...if Hulk gets his hands on Gokuu, Gokuu will be broken like a twig.
> 
> The only thing Gokuu has going for him is his speed, but what's speed going to do to someone Gokuu cant even harm?


Base Goku can lift a lot more than 40 tons. 

While having 160 tons + at *least* over 100x Gravity(making it over 16000 tons) on him, he was still able to fly in base form.


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## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Base Goku can lift a lot more than 40 tons.
> 
> While having 160 tons + at *least* over 100x Gravity(making it over 16000 tons) on him, he was still able to fly in base form.


16000 tons, even 16000000 tons(1000x more) is about 1000x less than what's just been stated.  Thats a ridiculous difference in strength still.

The only people who'll be alive at the end of time will be Doomsday, Superman, the Hulk, and maybe Wolverine.


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## GSurge (Jul 4, 2005)

Goku is strong... but the Hulk basically has no limiters. Goku still does have a limit. Hulk would have to win here, through sheer stubbornness.


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## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

I have been researching Tsu's old posts, just to help out here and found this.



> Absorbing man tried to absorb the power of War Hulk's sword and he exploded


:rofl



> While having 160 tons + at least over 100x Gravity(making it over 16000 tons) on him, he was still able to fly in base form.


Still worthless.  I thought Goku was way stronger than that.  Literally nothing that someone that strong can do would even be noticed by the Hulk.  His hardest punch would be like a gnat flying into a tank, except even less effective.  And like I said, the Hulk is able to grab someone faster than Goku.

Also, even if he teleports the Hulk into a black hole, which he won't, the Hulk has held open black holes, and that is his weaker form.


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## Codde (Jul 4, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> Holy crap, why I am even arguing here.  I thought Goku was way stronger than that.  .


And you thought right...

Physical strength really place less a role for Goku can those enhanced by moves like the kamehameha that amplifies his power (as shown in the first saga of DBZ).


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## Takuza (Jul 4, 2005)

I would like to point out, that the hulk being 1000 times stronger than ss1 goku, is still only the hulk being stronger than SS1 goku. I am not sure how much more power going ss2 and ss3 gives you...but if its still the same 100x, then goku beats nrmal hulk in strength. but I am not sure about the power increase. and I also am not standing up for goku, as I believe the hulk would win.


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## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

> The only people who'll be alive at the end of time will be Doomsday, Superman, the Hulk, and maybe Wolverine.


Don't forget Deadpool.



> Physical strength really place less a role for Goku can those enhanced by moves like the kamehameha that amplifies his power (as shown in the first saga of DBZ).


Still, it doesn't amplify his power 10000000 times.


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Base Goku can lift a lot more than 40 tons.
> 
> While having 160 tons + at *least* over 100x Gravity(making it over 16000 tons) on him, he was still able to fly in base form.



Base Gokuu cannot lift more than 40 tons...look at the Buu Saga when he is training in the other world with Kaio-sama. Gokuu couldnt budge with the 40 tons of weights on him until he went SSj.

Gokuu never had 160 tons plus 100x gravity.....where in teh HELL did you get this?


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## Codde (Jul 4, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> Base Gokuu cannot lift more than 40 tons...look at the Buu Saga when he is training in the other world with Kaio-sama. Gokuu couldnt budge with the 40 tons of weights on him until he went SSj.
> 
> Gokuu never had 160 tons plus 100x gravity.....where in teh HELL did you get this?


Yes, look at the Buu saga. When that one kaio-sama said he'd increase each of those things to 10 tons, then he then said try 40 tons on put it on both of his arms and legs. Goku was still flying.

Didn't Goku have trouble adjusting to the planet? (it might be filler.. not sure). While over 7 years before that, he was effortlessly fighting in 100x G.


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## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

Lets pretend he can lift 16000 in base form, and each SS level increases it by 100x.  Then he goes from 16000 to 16,000,000,000, which is 1/10 of the most the Hulk has ever been (I would like to point out that it is not his max)


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## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

Dude goku would house him.. no contest SSj3.. yea hulk gets owned.


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Yes, look at the Buu saga. When that one kaio-sama said he'd increase each of those things to 10 tons, then he then said try 40 tons on put it on both of his arms and legs. Goku was still flying.
> 
> Didn't Goku have trouble adjusting to the planet? (it might be filler.. not sure). While over 7 years before that, he was effortlessly fighting in 100x G.



Nope reread it again, South Kaioshin increased it to 10 tons on each limb, making it 40 tons ALL TOGETHER. Not 40 tons on each limb....thats where you got confused...

Also, Gokuu was never affected by the gravity on other world...at all.

Gokuu could not lift 40 tons in base form...how sad.

But why I still dont get is, why do people use Gokuu vs blank, when Gokuu is not even close to being the strongest in his own series...?



			
				Gooba said:
			
		

> Lets pretend he can lift 16000 in base form, and each SS level increases it by 100x.  Then he goes from 16000 to 16,000,000,000, which is 1/10 of the most the Hulk has ever been (I would like to point out that it is not his max)



That's a problem....SSj is NOT a multiplier...in the Frieza saga it gave him a boost of about 13-14,000,000, which was roughly 40-50x is base. In the Buu Saga it gave him a MUCH bigger boost, but it was roughly 3.5-3.75x his base....

SSj is not a multiplier...it just adds on power.


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## Codde (Jul 4, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> Lets pretend he can lift 16000 in base form, and each SS level increases it by 100x.  Then he goes from 16000 to 16,000,000,000, which is 1/10 of the most the Hulk has ever been (I would like to point out that it is not his max)


Well it could very well be more than 16000... but as I said not sure if the adjusting to gravity is filler or not. I also know that the Kaio may be referring to the whole weight not just each particular unit (note: Goku is more than 1,000 stronger when he left for Namek than at the end of Cell also)


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## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

> Dude goku would house him.. no contest SSj3.. yea hulk gets owned.


Please read at least a few of the posts in a thread before you jump in.  At best Goku will win a long drawn out fight, but there is no way it would be a cakewalk.  I still haven't seen anything to prove that Goku can even kill the normal Hulk even if he didn't fight back.  If I pretend that Goku is 1000 times as strong as the Hulk's max (which doesn't exist) he still can't kill him.



> Well it could very well be more than 16000... but as I said not sure if the adjusting to gravity is filler or not. I also know that the Kaio may be referring to the whole weight not just each particular unit (note: Goku is more than 1,000 stronger when he left for Namek than at the end of Cell also)


Even so, the Hulk can power up more than that in a matter of minutes.  If we assume that Goku is way stronger than the Hulk, once the Hulk doesn't beat him immediatly he is just going to get madder, and then grow strong enough to best Goku.  

Hulk's peak strength = infinite, Goku's=finite.  Hulk's regeneration=infinite, Goku's=0.  Hulk's max age=infinite, Goku's=finite.  Hulk's peak duribility=infinite, Goku's=finite.


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Well it could very well be more than 16000... but as I said not sure if the adjusting to gravity is filler or not. I also know that the Kaio may be referring to the whole weight not just each particular unit (note: Goku is more than 1,000 stronger when he left for Namek than at the end of Cell also)



Read my post...


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## GSurge (Jul 4, 2005)

That's why having no limiters is just bogus.


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## Codde (Jul 4, 2005)

After re-reading it. Yeah it was 40 tons on a whole. But he couldn't lift it? He was flying with 40 tons in blase form... he just said "oooh" changed to SS and was easily flying and doing his training some more. 

That was the only chapter of him in the other world, so we don't know the gravity. Though it's safe to assume it's on another level. Considering that even North Kaio's small planet had gravity many more times than that of Earth . We also saw Goku training with 100x 7 years before that. He'd probably want to train as vigoriously as he can. But taht's just assume things. Then there' the fact that we don't know how much super saiyan amplifies his strength from base form. And chances are, and each new form may increase his power many times more than the previous.


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> After re-reading it. Yeah it was 40 tons on a whole. But he couldn't lift it? He was flying with 40 tons in blase form... he just said "oooh" changed to SS and was easily flying and doing his training some more.
> 
> That was the only chapter of him in the other world, so we don't know the gravity. Though it's safe to assume it's on another level. Considering that even North Kaio's small planet had gravity many more times than that of Earth . We also saw Goku training with 100x 7 years before that. He'd probably want to train as vigoriously as he can. But taht's just assume things. Then there' the fact that we don't know how much super saiyan amplifies his strength from base form. And chances are, and each new form may increase his power many times more than the previous.



Just said "oohh?" Gokuu was already levatating...then the Kaioshin changed his weights to 40 tons, which caused Gokuu to like hurle (sp?) over and not be able to move...so he HAD to go SSj, then he was moving in it easily..

There was no gravity that affected him in other world....even Kaiosama was walking on it normally...it was straight up 40 tons....they would've said otherwise if it wasnt...

We know in the Buu saga that SSj gives Gokuu a less than 3.75x boost....which is stupid cause Kaioken can give more, but obviously AT forgot about Kaioken when he made this....

Hulk lifted 150 billion tons....SSj3 probably gives Gokuu a good boost, probably allowing him to be able to lift 1000-1500 tons...

P.S. - People...SSj is NOT a multiplier...


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## Takuza (Jul 4, 2005)

not to mention the improvement in strength since that. Goku trained for over 200 other world years, who knows how much average improvement he made. but once again, I belive that the hulk would win.


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## Codde (Jul 4, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> Just said "oohh?" He couldnt LIFT it at all, that is why he HAD to go SSj...
> 
> There was no gravity that affected him in other world....even Kaiosama was walking on it normally...it was straight up 40 tons....they would've said otherwise if it wasnt...
> 
> ...


He was technically lifting it by flying with it... only thing that happened was that he couldn't punch and kick at lightning fast speeds...

There was gravity on the norht kaio's planet.
Gothatsuki
10x. So on a planet where all the Kaio's gather(at least the North and West) and the strongest fighters in the universe train(at least the Northern universe...), won't you expect there to be more?


Well what was Goku's base on namek? I believe that his power level was stated to be 15,000,000 in the daizenshuu...((I can only take the word of a few websites who stated it was from the daizenshuus and it seems common power level for that form and I'm sure someone has to have it) i know had the daizenshuu argument before) and his max is either 180,000 with the kaioken or not. 

Did War Hulk lift 150 billion tons?


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> He was technically lifting it by flying with it... only thing that happened was that he couldn't punch and kick at lightning fast speeds...
> 
> There was gravity on the norht kaio's planet.
> Gothatsuki
> ...




Once again Kaiosama's planet was special, only 2 people have ever been there, and it isnt made easy to get to. The other world isnt special..any1 who dies, and is good is allowed to stay there.....look at all the weak people that would pass through and look at Kaiosama, they wouldnt be able to handle much higher gravity...not to mention it was never stated that it had higher gravity....infact why would they say it was 40 tons...if there was gravity that affected it?

Yes, in the diazenshuu's it has SSj Gokuu listed at 15,000,000 and Frieza 100% at 12,000,000 which cannot be anymore wrong seeing as how Frieza at 100% was stronger than SSj Gokuu.....dont forget our argument....the diazenshuu's are crap.


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## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

well when he poweres up into SSj3 hell the whole earth shakes.... yea thats powerful my friend.. Sorry but the hulk has no chance..

instant Trannsmission then kamehameha and hes out.. plus did we all forget how super kaio ken i am sure he can use that in ssj3 that would be insane!

sorry but from watching and reading dbz goku's character is the most powerful person i seen to date.


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> well when he poweres up into SSj3 hell the whole earth shakes.... yea thats powerful my friend.. Sorry but the hulk has no chance..
> 
> instant Trannsmission then kamehameha and hes out.. plus did we all forget how super kaio ken i am sure he can use that in ssj3 that would be insane!
> 
> sorry but from watching and reading dbz goku's character is the most powerful person i seen to date.



SSj3 Gokuu is nothing compared to Hulk...wow.

Kamehameha wont even HURT Hulk. And Gokuu cannot use Kaioken while in SSj...which is why he hasnt...the strain on his body would be enormous and he'd explode...

Also, Gokuu is nowhere near the strongest in his own series....would you like me to name all of the people that are stronger?

Super Buu 3 (Gohan Buu)
Super Buu 2 (Gotenks Buu)
Super Buu 1.5 (Piccolo Buu)
Buff Buu
Super Buu
Chou Gohan
SSj3 Gotenks
SSj Gotenks

Ya....


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## Takuza (Jul 4, 2005)

Goku has NO WAY of killing the hulk. so how can he win???? impossible even he was stronger. but I thought of another way for a tie. since goku seems t obe able to teleport between deminisions ( when he teleports to king kais...) he could take the hulk into the time chamber thing up at kamis tower, and then destroy the door, the njust leave. or he could take him to any other random demision. doesn't matter.


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## Lord Yu (Jul 4, 2005)

THe hulk would probably grab goku and break him while he's powering up. Since goku takes for freaking ever to power up


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

anime606 said:
			
		

> Goku has NO WAY of killing the hulk. so how can he win???? impossible even he was stronger. but I thought of another way for a tie. since goku seems t obe able to teleport between deminisions ( when he teleports to king kais...) he could take the hulk into the time chamber thing up at kamis tower, and then destroy the door, the njust leave. or he could take him to any other random demision. doesn't matter.




How many times do I have to say this O.o

Instantaneous Movement requires you to lock onto a ki signature before teleporting to it....

There are no ki signatures in the RoSaT, and you cant even sense anything in there from the outside...


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## sundis (Jul 4, 2005)

Hulks power lies in his strength and durability, abliet at a very scary level. Aside from this fact the Hulk doesnt have much else.

Goku is not only strong but is also much, much faster. He is able to shoot projectiles from his hands/body/eye. The Hulk at best can throw heavy objects. I think he can clap and create sonic waves too...

Those things aside, Goku is a martial arts master. I'm probably stretching, but who's to say Goku can't blind Hulk and then hit a couple pressure points to incapitate him. Martial arts after all teaches that no matter how much bigger someone is, it's not about strength.


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## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

LOL!!! i cannot belive someone said he cannot use kao ken in ssj! he did in the buu saga for crying out loud.

ooo and if u talking about STR yes goku is the strongest.. BY HIMSELF all those characters u mentioned are either fused together or some way or another. plus goku said he could have defeated the fat buu in ssj3 but he wanted the other boys to give a shot on saving the world.



			
				Kamendex said:
			
		

> How many times do I have to say this O.o
> 
> Instantaneous Movement requires you to lock onto a ki signature before teleporting to it....
> 
> There are no ki signatures in the RoSaT, and you cant even sense anything in there from the outside...





he usese instant trannsmission pretty fast against kidd buu if u took notice.




			
				Lord Yu said:
			
		

> THe hulk would probably grab goku and break him while he's powering up. Since goku takes for freaking ever to power up




forever? did u see how fast he went to ssj3 against super buu with gotenks in him? i rest my case.



wait i just read  someone said ssj gotenks is stronger than goku 's ssj3? GOKU STATED he could do the same danm thing as those kids did when they wetn ssj3 he just compleneted them on how they did it at an early age.




			
				sundis said:
			
		

> Hulks power lies in his strength and durability, abliet at a very scary level. Aside from this fact the Hulk doesnt have much else.
> 
> Goku is not only strong but is also much, much faster. He is able to shoot projectiles from his hands/body/eye. The Hulk at best can throw heavy objects. I think he can clap and create sonic waves too...
> 
> Those things aside, Goku is a martial arts master. I'm probably stretching, but who's to say Goku can't blind Hulk and then hit a couple pressure points to incapitate him. Martial arts after all teaches that no matter how much bigger someone is, it's not about strength.



Correct.


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## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

> LOL!!! i cannot belive someone said he cannot use kao ken in ssj! he did in the buu saga for crying out loud.



Wow time to rip this post apart...Gokuu used Kaioken in the other world tournament...which was FILLER...do you understand the concept of filler?



> ooo and if u talking about STR yes goku is the strongest.. BY HIMSELF all those characters u mentioned are either fused together or some way or another. plus goku said he could have defeated the fat buu in ssj3 but he wanted the other boys to give a shot on saving the world.



Chou Gohan is by himself...and I never said Fat Buu was stronger than Gokuu...so why would you even bring that up?



> he usese instant trannsmission pretty fast against kidd buu if u took notice.



That's funny....last time I checked Kid Buu was basically near Gokuu, which doesnt really require him to search for his ki signature....and last time I checked Kid Buu was not in a different dimension than Gokuu...



> wait i just read someone said ssj gotenks is stronger than goku 's ssj3? GOKU STATED he could do the same danm thing as those kids did when they wetn ssj3 he just compleneted them on how they did it at an early age.



That someone would be me....Gokuu stated to Fat Buu that an even stronger fighter than himself would come to fight him (Gotenks, SSj Gotenks to be exact since Gokuu didnt even know the kids would be able to go SSj3). Gokuu later said that Super Buu would kill him and Vegeta....yet SSj Gotenks managed to damage Super Buu and put up a decent fight...

BTW ill be back in a couple of hours...i gotta go.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

I am just saying goku is stronger and faster and has more ebilities than the hulk.. its common sense but people are going to fight againist it because its goku and alot of people dont like DBZ for reasons on in... O well .


*edit hey the pussys who neg repped me put ur name at the end.. well it wont matter in 100 + posts anyways.. senior member  *


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

Gokuu is weaker than Hulk....this has been shown if you have been paying attention to this topic. First of all, Dragonball is my favorite manga and anime...so I dont HATE it, and Gokuu is my favorite character....but unlike yourself, I am not being ignorant, ignoring FACTS, and saying Gokuu would win because he is my favorite character.....

Now im out...


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

^ stronger possibly but str does not win a fight and so their for goku would win..

Ssj3 i dont see the hulk powering up and making the whole earth shake.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 4, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ stronger possibly but str does not win a fight and so their for goku would win..
> 
> Ssj3 i dont see the hulk powering up and making the whole earth shake.


 
Thats because the Hulk doesn't give off spirit energy when he powers up, the physics of the marvel universe work differently than the DBZ universe, so that point is meaningless.

Face it, there isn't anything Goku is going to be able to do to kill the Hulk. All he is going to be able to do is make him more and more pissed of. And the madder the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets, the more durable he gets and the faster he is able to heal (and his base healing is insane).

One big factor is endurance, the Hulk can literally go on forever, he is powered by Gamma Radiation, Goku on the other hand can't maintain SS3 for very long at all.


----------



## Final Ultima (Jul 4, 2005)

Kamendex, _thank you_ for fighting the good fight. The battle to educate misinformed people about Dragonball.


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## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> Thats because the Hulk doesn't give off spirit energy when he powers up, the physics of the marvel universe work differently than the DBZ universe, so that point is meaningless.
> 
> Face it, there isn't anything Goku is going to be able to do to kill the Hulk.  All he is going to be able to do is make him more and more pissed of.  And the madder the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets, the more durable he gets and the faster he is able to heal (and his base healing is insane).



if the hulk was in the DBZ world he would lose. Other way around goku would lose.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 4, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> if the hulk was in the DBZ world he would lose. Other way around goku would lose.


 
What the hell are you basing that off of?


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 4, 2005)

Ha anytime . I'm glad there are people here like me who see things like me...


----------



## Final Ultima (Jul 4, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku, a word of advice, just give them the benefit of the doubt.

Gay Doctor

Click on any of those topics and check the posts by me.
You don't want me to get involved in this. _Seriously._


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

^ eh ethey give good points but i am not letting my fav char go down....  IMO i just think goku is the strongest/ fastest character i seen yet until naruto gets more kybuii in him.


but yea u got a point.


----------



## Final Ultima (Jul 4, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ eh ethey give good points but i am not letting my fav char go down.... IMO i just think goku is the strongest/ fastest character i seen yet until naruto gets more kybuii in him.
> 
> 
> but yea u got a point.


Goku isn't even the strongest being in his _own_ universe, let alone the Marvel or DC universes.


----------



## sundis (Jul 4, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> ...And the madder the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets, the more durable he gets and the faster he is able to heal (and his base healing is insane)...



Doesnt he get incredibly stupid as he progresses also? Or was this only in the early variations of the Hulk?

Anyway I think people want Goku to lose due to the fact "DBZ-hating" has turned into something all aspiring manga readers must do. Instead, just think of it as Hulk vs. Super-strong, Super-fast Bruce Lee... who can destroy whole galaxies with beams from his fingers...


----------------------


However much stronger the Hulk is then Goku, that's how much faster Goku is then the Hulk. The Hulk has no combat training, nor is his fighting style very complex. 

Goku has been training since birth. Before SSJ, before Vegeta, before anything his species were taught to destroy worlds. His training and techniques are too immense to list. He's trained under countless Masters. Never has he fought someone or beaten someone based off strength. 

Goku's martial arts training wins the day here. And he's not even that much weaker physically per se.


----------



## Final Ultima (Jul 4, 2005)

sundis said:
			
		

> Doesnt he get incredibly stupid as he progresses also? Or was this only in the early variations of the Hulk?
> 
> Anyway I think people want Goku to lose due to the fact "DBZ-hating" has turned into something all aspiring manga readers must do. Instead, just think of it as Hulk vs. Super-strong, Super-fast Bruce Lee... who can destroy whole galaxies with beams from his fingers...
> 
> ...


Some food for thought.

Recall back to the Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku vs Kid Buu fight. Take away Buu's pink stretchiness, and replace it with regeneration many times more potent than before, and then multiply Buu's strength by about thirty million times what it was before.

Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku was about equal to Kid Buu, but Kid Buu's regeneration gave him almost infinite stamina, whereas Goku got tired extremely quickly.

Do you really think the outcome would be any more preferable to Goku against an opponent that's vastly stronger and has even more stamina?


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 4, 2005)

sundis said:
			
		

> Doesnt he get incredibly stupid as he progresses also? Or was this only in the early variations of the Hulk?
> 
> Anyway I think people want Goku to lose due to the fact "DBZ-hating" has turned into something all aspiring manga readers must do. Instead, just think of it as Hulk vs. Super-strong, Super-fast Bruce Lee... who can destroy whole galaxies with beams from his fingers...


 
That used to be true, but it doesn't really seem to happen anymore.  Sometimes he'll go into a rage and seem stupid because he's attacking everyone, but he isn't getting stupider.

When he fought Onslaught he was amazingly angry, but was still able to form whole sentences.

The Hulk hates the Abomination more than anyone, the Abomination killed his wife.  When the Hulk fights him he's madder than any other time, but he is still at the same level of intelligence.




			
				sundis said:
			
		

> However much stronger the Hulk is then Goku, that's how much faster Goku is then the Hulk. The Hulk has no combat training, nor is his fighting style very complex.
> 
> Goku has been training since birth. Before SSJ, before Vegeta, before anything his species were taught to destroy worlds. His training and techniques are too immense to list. He's trained under countless Masters. Never has he fought someone or beaten someone based off strength.
> 
> Goku's martial arts training wins the day here. And he's not even that much weaker physically per se.


 
His speed and skills won't do jack, he still can't kill the Hulk, and like I said, Goku doesn't have that much endurance when fighting that that level.  He'll eventually wear down and become a punching bag.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

luckly the topic creator did not want ssj4 in here or their would be more arguements.


so you say about goku getting tired really quick.. Well he did after that huge ass kamehama and blew buu away lets say that happened to hulk he wont be comming back after that hit .. the hulk cannot regenerate his whole body back.  plus after that huge ass kamehaha he came back for more in ssj3 and still fighting strong for a while.

plus speed is defintly an issue and goku is much faster than the hulk... Look at what happened with Cell and Trunks in the cell saga.


----------



## Final Ultima (Jul 4, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> luckly the topic creator did not want ssj4 in here or their would be more arguements.


Allow me to quote myself.



			
				Final Ultima said:
			
		

> Only in the sense that he's not only a completely non-canon anime character, but that TOEI were also so bad at power consistency, that they decided to have Super Saiya-jin 4 Goku and Super Saiya-jin 4 Vegeta be unable to lift up a building.
> 
> Yeah, dead strong. *Rolls eyes*


Don't even bother with anything relating to Dragonball GT, it's as bad (if not worse) than filler.



			
				Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> so you say about goku getting tired really quick.. Well he did after that huge ass kamehama and blew buu away lets say that happened to hulk he wont be comming back after that hit .. the hulk cannot regenerate his whole body back.


Not only is Hulk's body more durable (in fact, Buu's body is pretty weak by DBZ standards), so it's less likely that he needs to regenerate, but his regeneration is more efficient than even Kid Buu's. It wouldn't be a problem.



			
				Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> plus speed is defintly an issue and goku is much faster than the hulk... Look at what happened with Cell and Trunks in the cell saga.


Speed means nothing if you don't even have the strength to kill your opponent.


----------



## ageofdarkness (Jul 4, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> luckly the topic creator did not want ssj4 in here or their would be more arguements.
> 
> 
> so you say about goku getting tired really quick.. Well he did after that huge ass kamehama and blew buu away lets say that happened to hulk he wont be comming back after that hit .. the hulk cannot regenerate his whole body back.
> ...



I don't think that kamehamea can blow up the Hulk to bits in the first place. He's taken stronger hits before. Even if, he can regenerate his whole body.

Speed is not really an issue. The Hulk caught the Silver Surfer's board in mid-air, and the Silver Surfer was flying faster than Goku if I'm correct.

Goku just cannot kill the Hulk no matter what. He will take it, regenerate what he lost, get angrier, and get stronger.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

^ he does have the STR u people are underestimating him..

plus about ur lifiting up a building hell if they wanted them to do that they would but they never added it in...

Let me remind u that Goku lifed the heavest known metal in the Entire univirese so i am sure that baby is freaking heavy.

plus goku said he could have defeated kid buu off when he was fresh the  but he let the fight drag so vegeta could have a shot.


plus saying the hulks regeneration is better than kidd buu's is truely wrong... let hulk get in the middle of a planet blast and lets see what happenes..... oo no hulk anymore.


----------



## Final Ultima (Jul 4, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ he does have the STR u people are underestimating him..
> 
> plus about ur lifiting up a building hell if they wanted them to do that they would but they never added it in...
> 
> Let me remind u that Goku lifed the heavest known metal in the Entire univirese so i am sure that baby is freaking heavy.


Base Goku can lift up 8 tons pretty easily, but he struggled to lift up 40 tons. Even if each transformation were to give Goku a boost radically greater than the amount assumed from conjectures based on the plot, it wouldn't hold a candle to Hulk's 150 billion tons.



			
				Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> plus goku said he could have defeated kid buu off when he was fresh the but he let the fight drag so vegeta could have a shot.


In a sense, you're right. If Goku had just gone Full Power Super Saiya-jin 3 from the start and didn't dawdle quite like he did, then he could've destroyed Buu easily. However, it doesn't cover a gap quite like the gap between Kid Buu and War Hulk. Besides, I don't even know if this versus thread takes Full Power Super Saiya-jin 3 into account.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 4, 2005)

^ true about the tons. but goku also said that transforming to ssj would make to to easy as well..

I will tkae in account that goku could lift over 500 tons in ssj3 form or higher.

but i am just saying when hes in ssj3 its crazy. lighting everywhere and surrounding him. when he powered up into it he MADe the WHOLE earth shake now thats insane.


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## sundis (Jul 4, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> His speed and skills won't do jack, he still can't kill the Hulk, and like I said, Goku doesn't have that much endurance when fighting that that level.  He'll eventually wear down and become a punching bag.



While I agree with what you say, I'd ask you the same thing.

What good is strength, when the hulk cant catch Goku. Goku may not have as much endurance, but I daresay he has the willpower to never give up. Also it takes much more endurance to throw a punch then it does to dodge it. Goku could dodge indefinately, and he does it in normal mode, he doesnt need SSJ to dodge Hulk's attacks.

Ok, now correct me if I'm wrong because my Hulk information is kind of sketchy. I havent read Hulk in quite a long time. Didnt the Hulk have a few close calls with a simple Gamma Bomb? This was more then a one time occurance; apparently its his kryptonite?

One specific example was when he went into the future and met himself(except he was evil). His future self however had grown much stronger then him. How then, did the Hulk beat a stronger version of himself? Well... he sent the future Hulk into the past, to the moment when a Gamma Bomb turned Bruce Banner into the Hulk, which then discinerated the stronger "Future Hulk". 

Spirit Bomb > Gamma Bomb. Goku > Hulk. 

--------------------------------------------------

After saying that though, I was doing some internet research just now and it seems War-Hulk was created to kill Celestial beings like Galatus. If that's the case then War-Hulk would probably beat Goku pretty handily. Since Hulk verus Goku already looks like it would be very close.


----------



## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

> Did War Hulk lift 150 billion tons?


No, a version of the Hulk which is way worse than him did.  Basicly, SSJ2 Hulk lifted 150 billion tons, and we are talking about SSJ3 Hulk.



> who's to say Goku can't blind Hulk and then hit a couple pressure points to incapitate him. Martial arts after all teaches that no matter how much bigger someone is, it's not about strength.


How is he going to blind the Hulk?
A) He is not strong enough to even damage the Hulk's eyeball with a direct Kamehame right into his eye socket
B) Even if it did he could heal in seconds, even if his head is reduced to nothing but bone and 0 flesh.  Poking out his eyes is pointless if he can regrow them in the time it takes Goku's finger to leave the hole
C) Pressure points won't work because of his healing
D) Goku is too weak to depress Hulk's skin enough to hit them
E) Hulk's pressure points are under 2 feet of muscle, making them near impossible to hit
F) Has Goku ever shown any knowledge of pressure points?



> so you say about goku getting tired really quick.. Well he did after that huge ass kamehama and blew buu away lets say that happened to hulk he wont be comming back after that hit .. the hulk cannot regenerate his whole body back. plus after that huge ass kamehaha he came back for more in ssj3 and still fighting strong for a while.


Did you see my gif.  That was something stronger than any Kamehame wave, and it did blow all his flesh off, and he was back to normal in the time it took his friends to say "Shouldn't we get him something?"  To which he responded "just get me some pants," which means they saw a giant Hulk wang, which I am pretty sure could also take SSJ3 Gotenks fused with SSJ3 Gogeta in a 1v1.



> The Hulk caught the Silver Surfer's board in mid-air, and the Silver Surfer was flying faster than Goku if I'm correct.


Very correct, SS>Flash in speed.



> plus saying the hulks regeneration is better than kidd buu's is truely wrong


No, it isn't.  I saw Kid Buu's regeneration, and his toughness.  1 Goku punch deformed him, that is utterly pathetic.  Hulk's toughness>>>>Kid Buu's, and even if it isn't normally if you hurt him he gets madder and tougher.  His healing will bring him back completely from 1 cell, one.  In the time it took Buu to regernate from having his head knocked to the side the Hulk could come back from being a skeleton.



> I will tkae in account that goku could lift over 500 tons in ssj3 form or higher.


500 tons, that is only 1/300000000000th of what the Hulk can, in his "SSJ2 form" and we are talking about his SSJ3.  Actually, the Hulk can lift 
	
	



```
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 tons
```
 So I don't think Goku wins this.



> What good is strength, when the hulk cant catch Goku.


He can, he can catch the SS who is ridiculously faster than Goku.



> What good is strength, when the hulk cant catch Goku. Goku may not have as much endurance, but I daresay he has the willpower to never give up. Also it takes much more endurance to throw a punch then it does to dodge it. Goku could dodge indefinately, and he does it in normal mode, he doesnt need SSJ to dodge Hulk's attacks.


Yes, it takes less, but the Hulk has literally infinite stamina.  He could go on until the end of time, literally.  Goku can go on for a long time, but definitly not more than 9999999999 millenium, which the Hulk can.  Goku ages, he will die after 1000 years giving him a TON of extra time.  The Hulk can never die.

Kamendex, Final Ultima, and Tsu thanks for helping.  Especially Tsu because 99% of my Hulk knowledge is from him a few months ago.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 4, 2005)

sundis said:
			
		

> While I agree with what you say, I'd ask you the same thing.
> 
> What good is strength, when the hulk cant catch Goku. Goku may not have as much endurance, but I daresay he has the willpower to never give up. Also it takes much more endurance to throw a punch then it does to dodge it. Goku could dodge indefinately, and he does it in normal mode, he doesnt need SSJ to dodge Hulk's attacks.


 
No he couldn't dodge indefinetly, he will eventually tire, the Hulk will not, he never tires.



			
				sundis said:
			
		

> Ok, now correct me if I'm wrong because my Hulk information is kind of sketchy. I havent read Hulk in quite a long time. Didnt the Hulk have a few close calls with a simple Gamma Bomb? This was more then a one time occurance; apparently its his kryptonite?


 
The Gamma Bomb messes with the Hulks natural energy, but obviously even that has never killed him.



			
				sundis said:
			
		

> One specific example was when he went into the future and met himself(except he was evil). His future self however had grown much stronger then him. How then, did the Hulk beat a stronger version of himself? Well... he sent the future Hulk into the past, to the moment when a Gamma Bomb turned Bruce Banner into the Hulk, which then discinerated the stronger "Future Hulk".


 
Actually, the Maestro (future hulk) survived being hit point blank with the gamma bomb, he was disintegrated, but he was still able to come back later on.



			
				sundis said:
			
		

> Spirit Bomb > Gamma Bomb. Goku > Hulk.


 
What are you basing that off of?  The Spirit bomb goes off an kills one person (if they're hit directly), some people like Freiza have even survived directs hits.  The Gamma bomb shoots the most powerful type of radiation through your body, it kills everyone around it (unless they have the special gene Bruce Banner and the other gamma mutants had).



			
				sundis said:
			
		

> --------------------------------------------------
> 
> After saying that though, I was doing some internet research just now and it seems War-Hulk was created to kill Celestial beings like Galatus. If that's the case then War-Hulk would probably beat Goku pretty handily. Since Hulk verus Goku already looks like it would be very close.


 
War Hulk is probably in the top 3 incarnations, his power _is_ on a level allowing him to kill celestials, but I doubt war hulk would be needed to kill Goku.


----------



## sundis (Jul 4, 2005)

Hulk catching surfer's board as he flew by, is like you being able to swat an insect out of the air as it flew by. But if say a "fly" kept it's distance, can you seriously say you'll be able to catch it. You dont need to answer, just think about those frustrating summer days running around the house with a rolled-up newspaper.  

---------------------

The Gamma Bomb can be contained, all it is basically is a nuke. The one that Maestro dealt with was probably a regular one as I doubt they would test the "strongest" possible gamma bomb they could first time going. At any rate the Gamma Bomb that went off obviously didnt destroy the world -- some of Goku's powers can. Also note that some of these powers are relatively easy for Goku to preform. I have to take your word about the Hulk being able to destroy Earth, but I seriously doubt he could do it with the relative ease Goku can.

---------------------

The Maestro didnt die, I actually didnt know that, but would you say that was a tie or a win for the Hulk?

He stopped Maestro for a bit, so it's a win right? If it's not a win then really no superhero wins any battle, since 90% of super-villians come back to fight another day. Spider won once out 10001232 fights since the only villian he's ever killed was the Goblin?

So for arguement sake, we'll say that the Hulk won that round. Which means that even though the Gamma Bomb didnt kill Maestro, it did stop him. So apparently Hulk isnt invulnerable, he may not have been killed but he has been stopped before.


----------



## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

sundis said:
			
		

> Hulk catching surfer's board as he flew by, is like you being able to swat an insect out of the air as it flew by. But if say a "fly" kept it's distance, can you seriously say you'll be able to catch it. You dont need to answer, just think about those frustrating summer days running around the house with a rolled-up newspaper.
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> ...


Lemme straighten this out for you, the hulk, can survive in space.  The hulk can recover from having 99% of his body incinerated.  The hulk is impervious to all but the strongest blasts.  The hulk, is virtually immortal.  Goku can only say that he can survive in space.  He'd have to spend the rest of his life avoiding the Hulk by a LONG distance or else he'd be killed.  Running away from your opponent isn't a victory

Secondly, the Gamma bomb killed Maestro because it was THE bomb that gave him his powers, powers he absorbs to gain more powerful.  Even a normal bomb 10000000000000000x more powerful can't do that because it doesn't have the gamma radiation which his body absorbs.  Its like overloading a battery.  You can't overload a battery with anything except electricity.  you can't do it with water, you can't do it with fire, you can't do it with wind, you can't even do it with all the chi energy in the world, it has to be electricity.

Thirdly, as he gets madder, he gets more and more capable of destroying the earth easily.  It'll come to a point where he'd be able to destroy it by a flick.  Thats a lot easier than any Kamehameha blast goku could do.

Fourthly, this is WAR, not just any hulk.  He's got a sword.  He's STOPPED the juggernaut(theres a difference between knocking him back and stopping him, apparently its easier to knock him back, its supposed to be virtually impossible to stop).  Even if Goku ran, he could throw a friggin sword and impale him, end of story.


----------



## Takuza (Jul 4, 2005)

people who are defending Goku, please tell me how goku would win. He cannot destroy the hulk's body, he cannot out live him. he cannot do anything >.> PLEASE, do a GOOD job defending yourself. >.>


----------



## Codde (Jul 4, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> Once again Kaiosama's planet was special, only 2 people have ever been there, and it isnt made easy to get to. The other world isnt special..any1 who dies, and is good is allowed to stay there.....look at all the weak people that would pass through and look at Kaiosama, they wouldnt be able to handle much higher gravity...not to mention it was never stated that it had higher gravity....infact why would they say it was 40 tons...if there was gravity that affected it?
> 
> Yes, in the diazenshuu's it has SSj Gokuu listed at 15,000,000 and Frieza 100% at 12,000,000 which cannot be anymore wrong seeing as how Frieza at 100% was stronger than SSj Gokuu.....dont forget our argument....the diazenshuu's are crap.


The planet Goku was on isn't special? A planet where two lords of the galax reside? And where Goku, the strongest fighter in the northern galaxy trained? Won't he want to train under the most vigorious condition? Kaiosama was able to easily go around on 10x gravity on his own planet. He'd probably want to train somewhere else then if he could get better train.

Well you think that the daizenshuu is crap I think otherwise, just like some dissagree with the naruto databook while others agree.


----------



## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

BTW, if you're gonna talk about how much something weighs, they'll tell you the WEIGHT, not the MASS when they're on a heavier planet meaning that when they say its 40 tons, even if the planet has 1000000000000x gravity, its 40 tons on that planet since they gave no reference mass.

Anyways, regardless, Hulk is stronger, and is unlikely to die, on the other hand, Goku will eventually.


----------



## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

Code, do you think Goku would win this, or are you just helping people understand Goku correctly?  I am just curious as to your overall opinion of the fight.


----------



## Codde (Jul 4, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> Code, do you think Goku would win this, or are you just helping people understand Goku correctly?  I am just curious as to your overall opinion of the fight.


Well I doubt Goku can win this...

Just that I disagree with the Goku can't even lift 40 tons in base comment.

Also, did that particular # for what the Hulk lift, can he put that weight on his body, jump up and stay in the sky and say punch and kick in rapid succession? 

If he can't, then the definition of lift being used for these two are different....

Is there any measure of the Hulk's speed?


----------



## Othni (Jul 4, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> Goku is powerful, and gets more powerful as he fights, but he never got over a billion times stronger in a single fight.



Hmmm, let's see. SSJ, then SSJ2, Hmmm, that right there is 10,000....You're right. Up to SSJ3, he can only get 1 million times stronger.  But he can actually get stronger...well, his attack anyway. Just like he killed buu and a butt load of other mobs. Put his energy and everybody elses energy into the ball....in the buu saga, he did it extremely slow, but he's done it faster other times.  

And the whole pressure thingy. Vegeta as a regular sayajin went through 400X gravity.  Normal gravity is 14 fps so in 400X that would be 5600 fps.  So every single inch of his body was being crushed by that.   I might be wrong but I think that's correct.  :


----------



## Gooba (Jul 4, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Well I doubt Goku can win this...
> 
> Just that I disagree with the Goku can't even lift 40 tons in base comment.
> 
> ...


Ok, as long as we understand eachother.  I guess I should step out of your way then, and let the DBZ experts debate this.

I love what happens when you edit   

I guess they are different definitions, that 150 billion tons was just being held over his head staticly.  There isn't any real measure of his speed, but he can fight people on Silver Surfer's level of speed somehow.


----------



## lucky (Jul 4, 2005)

How can hulk stop him if GOku throws him towards the sun?


He can't fly back to earth, no matter how big of a temper tantrum he gets.


----------



## Takuza (Jul 4, 2005)

He would not die from being on the sun...so he would just continue to get mad, until he is strong enough to get of the sun. as Gooba said.


----------



## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

j0e-sama said:
			
		

> How can hulk stop him if GOku throws him towards the sun?
> 
> 
> He can't fly back to earth, no matter how big of a temper tantrum he gets.


You know...you actually  have to be next to one to grab them and you have to grab them to throw them.  Being next to the hulk isn't exactly the smartest idea...he can catch people moving at COSMIC speeds and he's much stronger.  That would basically be suicide for Goku...


----------



## lucky (Jul 4, 2005)

anime606 said:
			
		

> He would not die from being on the sun...so he would just continue to get mad, until he is strong enough to get of the sun. as Gooba said.




Mad enough to get off the sun?  lol how? :xp  Before the Hulk actually 'reaches' the sun, would've died of old age.




			
				Insipidipity said:
			
		

> You know...you actually  have to be next to one to grab them and you have to grab them to throw them.  Being next to the hulk isn't exactly the smartest idea...he can catch people moving at COSMIC speeds and he's much stronger.  That would basically be suicide for Goku...




Goku might not be as strong as Hulk's strongest incarnations, but he's not a pushover either.  

If he really can't last two seconds against the hulk, he could easily blow up the ground surrounding the Hulk, and while the Hulk is still airbourne, Kamehameha him out into space outside of earth's range of Gravity.

The Kamehameha won't hurt him (though i think it will) but he won't be able to do shit about floating away from dear old earth.


----------



## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

But the point is for him to beat him, not to send him in space...that really accomplishes nothing.  The first one to die will be Goku.

BTW, the Hulk isn't going to die of old age.  In the future the Hulk is alive after all of mankind is destroyed I believe.  Plus, War Hulk's weaponry isn't to be underestimated.  Goku really doesn't stand a chance.


----------



## lucky (Jul 4, 2005)

By sending him out to space, he's effectively beaten.  What can he do?  Pretty much nothing.  

Being beaten physically is just one way of beating him.  But a "Ring-Out", or by totally neutrailizing Hulk's ability to harm him (harmlessly drifting awayyyyy), Goku effectively wins.


oh btw, i meant Goku would die of old age before Hulk manages to get back (IF he manages to get back) to earth for 'revenge'.


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## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

j0e-sama said:
			
		

> By sending him out to space, he's effectively beaten.  What can he do?  Pretty much nothing.
> 
> Being beaten physically is just one way of beating him.  But a "Ring-Out", or by totally neutrailizing Hulk's ability to harm him (harmlessly drifting awayyyyy), Goku effectively wins.
> 
> ...


Neither of them can do anything.  Theres only 2 ways of beating someone.  Killing them or knocking them out.  Theres no such thing as ring outs in a real fight.  And you're assuming Goku can even hit the ground under him before the Hulk jumps at him and decaps him.


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## Green Lantern (Jul 4, 2005)

I mentioned when I created this topic- no planetary destruction by either parties- cause both could easily destroy the planet and leave the other there to die- however the only possible way *in my opinion* which Goku could win is if he destroyed the Sun and then teleported away leaving Hulk to be burnt up by the explosion of the sun- possibly it would not kill the Hulk, but the Hulk would not be able to kill Goku leaving it a draw  

alot of people arent taking into consideration that it could actually end up in a stalemate- I didn't limit running away or Dragonballs did I?  
Goku teleports to Namek, gets the Dragonballs and wishes himself to be Immortal (this can easily be done, as that was what Vegeta wanted to do with the Dragonballs), once Goku is Immortal, he can train for a million years and EVENTUALLY, grow strong enough to knock out or kill the Hulk who is currently floating around in space 

Of course that would be quite cheap, but theres no rule against it is there


----------



## Insipidipity (Jul 4, 2005)

Running away is essentially a loss.  Basically if one party is afraid of the other and won't fight them, they've essentially lost.


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## lucky (Jul 4, 2005)

Insipidipity said:
			
		

> Neither of them can do anything.  Theres only 2 ways of beating someone.  Killing them or knocking them out.  Theres no such thing as ring outs in a real fight.  And you're assuming Goku can even hit the ground under him before the Hulk jumps at him and decaps him.




any random weak fireball can destroy the immediate vicinity surrounding wherever he shoots it.  Hulk stands on mountain, shoot mountain.  Mountain destroyed, leaving hulk in freefall or wherever the blast shoots him.  WILL be airbourne though.




			
				Insipidipity said:
			
		

> Running away is essentially a loss.  Basically if one party is afraid of the other and won't fight them, they've essentially lost.




I thought you said that there's only two ways of winning.


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## Green Lantern (Jul 4, 2005)

Insipidipity said:
			
		

> Running away is essentially a loss.  Basically if one party is afraid of the other and won't fight them, they've essentially lost.



I created this versus match- and no where did I state that running is a loss  my fight my rules- Victory is by *death*

Doesnt matter how one kills the other- the loser is the one who is dead- so Goku could easily run and wish himself Immortal, which would be quite BS, but it is one of his options


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## Gooba (Jul 5, 2005)

> Mad enough to get off the sun? lol how?  Before the Hulk actually 'reaches' the sun, would've died of old age.


He doesn't age.



> By sending him out to space, he's effectively beaten. What can he do? Pretty much nothing.


Throw his helmet away from the Earth at a few thousand miles per hour, it will send him going back towards Earth.  He could even rip off his own hand, throw it, and regrow it.


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## acritarch (Jul 5, 2005)

lol, goku is actually beating the hulk in the poll ........


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## Gooba (Jul 5, 2005)

> lol, goku is actually beating the hulk in the poll ........


In all my battledome experiance(I got a lot) I have found most people read the thread title, vote, post, then may or may not read the first post, then they may or may not read a few other posts.


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## meekozy (Jul 5, 2005)

They pwn the universe together


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## Kamendex (Jul 5, 2005)

radishbak said:
			
		

> I mentioned when I created this topic- no planetary destruction by either parties- cause both could easily destroy the planet and leave the other there to die- however the only possible way *in my opinion* which Goku could win is if he destroyed the Sun and then teleported away leaving Hulk to be burnt up by the explosion of the sun- possibly it would not kill the Hulk, but the Hulk would not be able to kill Goku leaving it a draw
> 
> alot of people arent taking into consideration that it could actually end up in a stalemate- I didn't limit running away or Dragonballs did I?
> Goku teleports to Namek, gets the Dragonballs and wishes himself to be Immortal (this can easily be done, as that was what Vegeta wanted to do with the Dragonballs), once Goku is Immortal, he can train for a million years and EVENTUALLY, grow strong enough to knock out or kill the Hulk who is currently floating around in space
> ...




Wat is the point of being immortal to train for a million years if Gokuu has a limit...I bet Gokuu will reach his peak in about 20 years of training....so wat would be the point of training for a million years?

We already know how strong Gohan was at his full potential...and Gokuu's potential is less....so Gokuu can never get strong enough to beat the Hulk...

To Code...The Diazenshuu power levels were not authorized by Akira Toriyama....where as the Naruto Data Book was authorized by Kishimoto...big difference...and the amount of consistencies and mistakes in the diazenshuu's make them as credible as filler...

One other thing....wat POSSIBLE reasoning can one have to think Gokuu can win? I mean people be realistic here, think with your head and stop being ignorant (not trying to be offensive). This thread is not even fair...they arent even in the same league....this is a dinosaur vs an ant...this is Sarutobi prime vs a Baby Konohamaru....

Stronger= Hulk by far
Faster= Gokuu
Endurance= Hulk by far
Durability= Hulk by far

Genki Dama.....? Great way for Gokuu to win! O wait...is Hulk going to stand around waiting for Gokuu to gather enough energy to even damage the hulk??


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## acritarch (Jul 5, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> In all my battledome experiance(I got a lot) I have found most people read the thread title, vote, post, then may or may not read the first post, then they may or may not read a few other posts.



and goku gets another vote in the time inbetween my posts   


kamendex, btw, if hulk can snatch SS board out from under him.. wouldnt that make him faster than goku? or at least have better reflexes..



> Genki Dama.....? Great way for Gokuu to win! O wait...is Hulk going to stand around waiting for Gokuu to gather enough energy to even damage the hulk??


i think you meant...



> Genki Dama.....? Great way for Gokuu to win! O wait...is Hulk going to stand around waiting for Gokuu to gather enough energy to even FUTILELY ATTEMPT TO damage the hulk??


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## Kamendex (Jul 5, 2005)

Ya I was iffy about Gokuu being faster because I dont know how fast Hulk is.....but then again speed wont matter, Gokuu cant even scratch the Hulk.

And I like the editing of what I said....yours sounds better  :


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## Codde (Jul 5, 2005)

Well with the Genki Dama... to the above saying it's futile.

Goku can harness energy from every living thing, plant or animal, from the planet itself, and even inanimate objects. Who knows, he could probably gather energy from an entire solar system and then some if he had the time. Not saying he can beat him but I seriously doubt the genki dama is futile... 

Speed? Hmm... Well it was said that it was rumored that the distance to North Kaio's planet was over 1 million kilometers. And when coming back, Kaio said with Goku's power he'd make it back in 2 days. And when Goku did travel the distance he was astounded by the speed he made it meaning it was probably a lot less than 2 days. As the next morning is when he arrived (assuming they didn't fight the saiyans for more than a day). So he traveled at least 10 km per second with a base of a bit over 5000. If you multiply it by his PL he ges later, then it's much faster. Then he shoued with his Instant Movement move he can travel that "rumored 1 million km" in an instant... and was even able to make it to the new planet namek which should be quite a distance... considering it took a spacehsip that could travel to jupiter an instant, 1 or 2 months to reach.... Though we don't know where the new PN  is located... Either way instant movement is instant movement... though he needs a ki to lock on.


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## Kamendex (Jul 5, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Well with the Genki Dama... to the above saying it's futile.
> 
> Goku can harness energy from every living thing, plant or animal, from the planet itself, and even inanimate objects. Who knows, he could probably gather energy from an entire solar system and then some if he had the time. Not saying he can beat him but I seriously doubt the genki dama is futile...
> 
> Speed? Hmm... Well it was said that it was rumored that the distance to North Kaio's planet was over 1 million kilometers. And when coming back, Kaio said with Goku's power he'd make it back in 2 days. And when Goku did travel the distance he was astounded by the speed he made it meaning it was probably a lot less than 2 days. As the next morning is when he arrived (assuming they didn't fight the saiyans for more than a day). So he traveled at least 10 km per second with a base of a bit over 5000. If you multiply it by his PL he ges later, then it's much faster. Then he shoued with his Instant Movement move he can travel that "rumored 1 million km" in an instant... and was even able to make it to the new planet namek which should be quite a distance... considering it took a spacehsip that could travel to jupiter an instant, 1 or 2 months to reach.... Though we don't know where the new PN  is located... Either way instant movement is instant movement... though he needs a ki to lock on.




Kaio-sama's planet is 1 million KM....it has a lot of curves and turns....

Gokuu on the way back can fly and jump over the curves....basically taking short cuts. So really, he did not run back the whole 1 mill KM.

Instantaneous Movement is not rumored to travel at 1 mill KM.....its INSTANT....It is faster than anything a comic character can do.....the bad thing is Gokuu has to concentrate on a ki source...which would royally screw him over...


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## Codde (Jul 5, 2005)

I never said it's rumored to be 1 million km per second. The distance to north kaio's planet was. As the move itself is called instant movement.


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## sundis (Jul 5, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> How is he going to blind the Hulk?
> A) He is not strong enough to even damage the Hulk's eyeball with a direct Kamehame right into his eye socket.



Well not blind BLIND. But he does have that Sunflare move which could stun the Hulk for a little bit.



			
				Gooba said:
			
		

> D) Goku is too weak to depress Hulk's skin enough to hit them.



Goku is weaker but not weak, he could put a hole into the moon quite easily. Batman who is just above an average man can throw Superman around, and fights on equal footing with Wonder Woman. It's not always about strength as technique and speed can match it on occasions. Really any althelete, be it a boxer/fighter/martial artist etc, would tell you the same thing. 



			
				Gooba said:
			
		

> F) Has Goku ever shown any knowledge of pressure points?



He has studied Martial Arts since a kid from every known "Greatest Martial Arts Master" on his planet, dead or alive, as well as Masters from other planets. I dont have any specific example, no. But I dont think it's a stretch to assume he knows.



			
				Gooba said:
			
		

> ... but the Hulk has literally infinite stamina.  He could go on until the end of time, literally.  Goku can go on for a long time, but definitly not more than 9999999999 millenium, which the Hulk can.  Goku ages, he will die after 1000 years giving him a TON of extra time.  The Hulk can never die.



Both DC and Marvel have had crossovers over the years where the Hulk has fought Superman. While I understand it's a popularity contest, the writer would not make up something that could not exsist in either world, i.e. Superman gaining magical powers to cripple the Hulk suddenly, or the Hulk suddenly sneezing Kryptonite. In one of these fights the Hulk actually lost because HE GOT TIRED.

-------------------------------------

But I digress, I wasnt actually sure about the War Hulk and his capabilities. After doing some research on him I dont think Goku could hurt that monster. 

In regards to Goku vs. regular Hulk I'm sticking to my guns.


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## Final Ultima (Jul 5, 2005)

sundis said:
			
		

> Both DC and Marvel have had crossovers over the years where the Hulk has fought Superman. While I understand it's a popularity contest, the writer would not make up something that could not exsist in either world, i.e. Superman gaining magical powers to cripple the Hulk suddenly, or the Hulk suddenly sneezing Kryptonite. In one of these fights the Hulk actually lost because HE GOT TIRED.


But we all know crossovers are about as canon as Dragonball GT, as in, not at all.


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## Deleted member 15401 (Jul 5, 2005)

*SSJ3 Goku grabs a hold of Hulk (which is very hard, due to his speed), instant transmissions him to a deserted planet (deserted.. So noone cries saying "Goku wouldnt harm other people to win!"), then teleports back, takes aim.. Shoots the planet, HUZZAH~!!!*


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## Final Ultima (Jul 5, 2005)

And the Hulk would still survive.

*Smacks hjkou across the back of the head* Pay attention.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jul 5, 2005)

This thread, as usual for Hulk threads, has turned into a "Why Hulk won't die" proving ground thread... just make a Hulk vs God thread...

"God will think him out of existance"... "Hulk can get so mad, he gets himself out of non-existance!!!"


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## Final Ultima (Jul 5, 2005)

Heh, fortunately it hasn't become quite that bad yet.


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## korican04 (Jul 5, 2005)

I think it depends where the battle is. If it's a small indestructable cube the size of a 10x10x10 room (let's say molecule man made it or some shit) goku is dead, he can't instant transmission under pressure as shown when buu was going to blow the planet up and had the kai come and save them (unless he's instant transmisioning around the person he's fighting like against cell), and hulk would pound him dead, goku can't compare to hulk's strength. But if it's in on a planet and goku can keep his distance then he has a better chance, goku is a great fighter, but it's suicide even for him to go in a direct fight with war hulk.

someone said the hulk get's tired, well goku does too, and much quicker i might add as he has never regenerated from half his body and come back and kept up insane destruction.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jul 5, 2005)

j0e-sama said:
			
		

> How can hulk stop him if GOku throws him towards the sun?
> 
> 
> He can't fly back to earth, no matter how big of a temper tantrum he gets.


 
People always suggest that, but its been tried.  Gladiator tried throwing the Hulk up into space, it almost cost him his hearing.  The Hulk slammed his hands on each side of Gladiators head as soon as he touched him setting off a sonic boom in Gladiator's head.  How would Goku deal with that?

Someone asked if the Hulk could destroy the earth, he shattered a meteor twice the size of the earth before, so he is more than capable of it.

And I'll say it once more, the Hulk does *NOT* tire, ever....any questions?

As for regeneration, the Hulk survived world war III when nuclear bombs of all types were going off right next to him, his body just kept regenerating again and again.

Keep in mind as he gets madder, he not only gets stronger, but he also gets more durable and his healing factor increases.  He'll eventually reach a point where Goku would be nothing.


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## ۩ReYmДN-dono۩ (Jul 5, 2005)

goku always pulls out a miracle...so goku


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## Codde (Jul 5, 2005)

Well ... Was it stated in non-filler that you can die after being dead already? 

If not... then Goku is dead probably more than 50% of DBZ(exaggeration) so dead-Goku who doesn't tire(I think...) would be a valid person to use...


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## Tsukiyomi (Jul 5, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Well ... Was it stated in non-filler that you can die after being dead already?
> 
> If not... then Goku is dead probably more than 50% of DBZ(exaggeration) so dead-Goku who doesn't tire(I think...) would be a valid person to use...


 
Didn't Goku have to take breaks and sleep while running on snake way?  He does tire, the people in other world still function on the same system of energy, so they would eventually tire.


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## Final Ultima (Jul 5, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Well ... Was it stated in non-filler that you can die after being dead already?
> 
> If not... then Goku is dead probably more than 50% of DBZ(exaggeration) so dead-Goku who doesn't tire(I think...) would be a valid person to use...


Yup, as an already dead Vegeta prepares to fight Kid Buu, Goku tells him that if he's killed in his current state, he won't exist anymore.

Also, Goku does tire when he's dead, hence why he's so exhausted after he uses Full Power Super Saiya-jin 3 against Fat Buu, it's just that he loses energy at a faster rate when he's living.


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## ۩ReYmДN-dono۩ (Jul 5, 2005)

is this the real war hulk or fake?


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## Tsukiyomi (Jul 5, 2005)

Thats him with his mask off, his sword is amazingly powerful alone, let alone when he is weilding it.  I posted a pic of him before.


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## ۩ReYmДN-dono۩ (Jul 5, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> Thats him with his mask off, his sword is amazingly powerful alone, let alone when he is weilding it.  I posted a pic of him before.


a little off-topic style but you know the title of the comic or is it just war hulk because i've seen a comic called dogs of wars is that the one?


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## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

Final Ultima said:
			
		

> Yup, as an already dead Vegeta prepares to fight Kid Buu, Goku tells him that if he's killed in his current state, he won't exist anymore.
> 
> Also, Goku does tire when he's dead, hence why he's so exhausted after he uses Full Power Super Saiya-jin 3 against Fat Buu, it's just that he loses energy at a faster rate when he's living.




the reason why he loses the engergy was not because of that.. He had a set time limit and the more energy he used the less time he would have . the less time he had made he tired. So in the otherworld Dead he would not get tired from going ssj3.



			
				Final Ultima said:
			
		

> And the Hulk would still survive.
> 
> *Smacks hjkou across the back of the head* Pay attention.



Lol right let me see the hulk regenerate his whole body back and be able to breath in space lol.


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## Gooba (Jul 6, 2005)

> Lol right let me see the hulk regenerate his whole body back and be able to breath in space lol.


Actually, he can and has.  Not that anything Goku does could make him need to regenerate.


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## Kamendex (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> the reason why he loses the engergy was not because of that.. He had a set time limit and the more energy he used the less time he would have . the less time he had made he tired. So in the otherworld Dead he would not get tired from going ssj3.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol right let me see the hulk regenerate his whole body back and be able to breath in space lol.



The amount of time he had left on earth was based on the amount of energy he had...SSj3 decreased his energy, thus, decreasing his time on earth...

Not to mention....Vegeta was dead.....and he was losing energy against Kid Buu if you remember..


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## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

plus how people say he gets madder and stronger. goku gets stronger and faster after every fight he is in because he is a sayien.


what would i want the ability to blow up planets or the ability to lift a billion tons? i will definitly take the ability to blow up the planets.

Plus GOku is the greatest Figher and is a genious in fighting.. witch the hulk does not have... Seriously lisen to frezia its not the strongest that allways wins its the smartest.



			
				Kamendex said:
			
		

> The amount of time he had left on earth was based on the amount of energy he had...SSj3 decreased his energy, thus, decreasing his time on earth...
> 
> Not to mention....Vegeta was dead.....and he was losing energy against Kid Buu if you remember..



Yes i know but i was just proving to him about the ability of SSj3 when hes dead.. goku also stated that in the other world SSj3 was sooo much easier and longer to be in..


plus yea vegeta was losing energy because he was facing kid buu witch was stronger than him. BUT he lasted longer and still got up because his body was more durable .


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## Kamendex (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> plus how people say he gets madder and stronger. goku gets stronger and faster after every fight he is in because he is a sayien.
> 
> 
> what would i want the ability to blow up planets or the ability to lift a billion tons? i will definitly take the ability to blow up the planets.
> ...



In the later half of Dragonball aka DBZ....power wins everything not smarts...

BTW, EVERY fighter in the history of everything becomes better and stronger after every fight.....Saiya-jins get a POWER boost after recovering from a NEAR death experience....

Honestly why are you still arguing? Are you THAT ignorant...?

Strength= Hulk by far
Speed= Gokuu, but seeing as how the Hulk caught the Silver Surfer....it wouldnt be hard to catch Gokuu.....AT ALL.
Endurance= Hulk by far
Durability= Hulk by far

Gokuu going SSj3 would be horrible...in 5 minutes hed start losing energy and getting weaker...

The only thing Gokuu has going for him is that he is a fighting genius.....but when the power difference is this much...it means NOTHING

Look at nearly every DBZ fight....and you will know.


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## Codde (Jul 6, 2005)

Well if the Silver Surfer is so strong then Goku would be able to sense his ki. Then he'd instant transmission to the Kaioshin's planet. Then get the potarra earrings. Then go to the Silver Surfer and put on the earrings (how it gets on.... meh). Then it'd be the Silver Goku.

... 

Then he'd go on a fusion rampage and eventually kick the hulk's ass...

Though he might end up being Schizophrenic and kill himself in the end and kind of inaudible with so many different voices talking at once...


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## Sabaku no Ira (Jul 6, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Well if the Silver Surfer is so strong then Goku would be able to sense his ki. Then he'd instant transmission to the Kaioshin's planet. Then get the potarra earrings. Then go to the Silver Surfer and put on the earrings (how it gets on.... meh). Then it'd be the Silver Goku.
> 
> ...
> 
> Then he'd go on a fusion rampage and eventually kick the hulk's ass...



If that's the case than it'll no longer be Goku but Silver Goku. Not saying that Silve Goku would beat the Hulk, though.


----------



## Codde (Jul 6, 2005)

So he's not allowed transformations?

Then it should be the regular Hulk without any "get mad get stronger" things...


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## Gooba (Jul 6, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> So he's not allowed transformations?
> 
> Then it should be the regular Hulk without any "get mad get stronger" things...


There is a huge difference, and you know it.  The "get mad get stronger" transformation is the same as SS levels, while the "Sliver Goku" think is completely different.  That is a 2v1 with someone more powerful than either party helping out Goku.  If he is allowed to do that then Hulk is allowed to convince Galactus to give him all of his power cosmic, and pwn Silver Goku.


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## Kamendex (Jul 6, 2005)

Wow.....hardcore DBZ fans find the oddest ways to make their fave characters win.....

Fuse with Silver Surfer? Wtf is that crap.....?

That is so...uhhh...ANYONE could do that....hell lets have Konohamaru go into the Dragonball universe get the potarra earings, fuse with Superman Prime and beat the Hulk! Wow....great logic.


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## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

not really both are in 1 body  


its not logic just that the DBZ guys can do that.


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## Gooba (Jul 6, 2005)

> its not logic just that the DBZ guys can do that.


And any Marvel character can theoretically get the Beyonder's power and become Cosmic.  Just because we don't find stupid excuses like that to make our guys win doesn't mean we will.


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## Kamendex (Jul 6, 2005)

Ya seriously.....holy crap...is it THAT HARD to believe DBZ characters can be beaten.....?


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## Codde (Jul 6, 2005)

...

Well then. He can get the pottarra earings.

Lead a good life. Die. Go to heaven. Then fuse with God. And well... blink(not even blink) the Hulk out of existence.

Goku easily takes this.

I am led to believe that this particular Hulk is different than others. As Goku from Buu saga was in possession of the Potarra earrings... it's like War Hulk in possession of a head...


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## Gooba (Jul 6, 2005)

Fine, he has the damned earrings.  They aren't going to help him because anyone he could put them on that would actually make a difference would just pwn Goku for trying.


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## Sabaku no Ira (Jul 6, 2005)

Grrr.... doesn't anyone read what I've posted?

Just as Gogeta is NOT Goku, Goku+anyone fusion character will NOT be Goku. Once the fusion has been done, Goku will no longer be "Goku" but someone else.


----------



## Codde (Jul 6, 2005)

But in their hearts there will always exist a little bit of Goku... Through thick and thin... 

So every single powerful person happens to be evil and wants the evil green Hulk to destroy their beloved monkey king? 

Note: The tone of that "Silver Goku"(it should be obvious with this phrase enough) wasn't to be taken seriously... though it is a possibility that can't be ruled out.


----------



## Sabaku no Ira (Jul 6, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> But in their hearts there will always exist a little bit of Goku... Through thick and thin...
> 
> So every single powerful person happens to be evil and wants the evil green Hulk to destroy their beloved monkey king?
> 
> Note: The tone of that "Silver Goku"(it should be obvious with this phrase enough) wasn't to be taken seriously... though it is a possibility that can't be ruled out.



Yes, and I supposed that everyone here has a bit of stuff coming from their parents, so does that mean that everyone IS whoever their parents are?

What I'm saying is that if Goku ever, EVER fuses with anyone, there won't be a "Goku" anymore but a new being altogether.


----------



## Codde (Jul 6, 2005)

But there'd still be a bit of Goku in it... it'd be a combination. Basically Goku getting help.


----------



## Sabaku no Ira (Jul 6, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> But there'd still be a bit of Goku in it... it'd be a combination. Basically Goku getting help.



And there will be a bit of whoever Goku fused with in that as well, and we end up with a mixture of the two. Saying that Goku+anyone fused = Goku would be equal to saying pure salt=salt water, which obviously doesn't work.


----------



## Codde (Jul 6, 2005)

But the salt water still contains water...

If a person grows some hair. They have something to what they already have. Therefore they are not the same person?


----------



## Gooba (Jul 6, 2005)

> But there'd still be a bit of Goku in it... it'd be a combination. Basically Goku getting help.


Which isn't allowed in a battledome fight.  I mean, getting help kinda defeats the purpose of every fight.  Konohamaru can beat Kyuubi if he gets help from Shukaku, and the 7 unnamed Youmas.

How about we got off of his joke suggestion and all accept Hulk>Goku.


----------



## Sabaku no Ira (Jul 6, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> But the salt water still contains water...
> 
> If a person grows some hair. They have something to what they already have. Therefore they are not the same person?



If a person grows some hair, the hair would still be part of the person initially and therefore still counts as part of that person "as a whole". Are you saying that whoever Goku fuses with is part of Goku initially?



			
				Gooba said:
			
		

> ButWhich isn't allowed in a battledome fight.  I mean, getting help kinda defeats the purpose of every fight.  Konohamaru can beat Kyuubi if he gets help from Shukaku, and the 7 unnamed Youmas.
> 
> How about we got off of his joke suggestion and all accept Hulk>Goku.



Exactly, that's what I'm trying to say.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

yea i like how SSj4 and all is not alowed in this thread of blowing up planets etc.. ur taking alot of goku's STR's away....


o well.


----------



## Jef88 (Jul 6, 2005)

i go for the war hulk he's a bad ass if goku even punches him one time the war hulk gets soooo mad he would kill/squash goku (i'm a db fan but the hulk is way stronger)


----------



## HollowDreamer (Jul 6, 2005)

Im gonna have to say SSJ3 Goku would win.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jul 6, 2005)

have you even read this thread?!


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> yea i like how SSj4 and all is not alowed in this thread of blowing up planets etc.. ur taking alot of goku's STR's away....
> 
> 
> o well.



Wow....you dont think outside the box do you?

Give Gokuu SSj4. Give him ALL of Vegeta's, Piccolo's, Gohan's, Kaioshin's, and every Dragonball character alive's abilities and techniques and Gokuu will STILL LOSE HORRIBLY TO WAR HULK. *STOP BEING IGNORANT.*


----------



## Codde (Jul 6, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> Wow....you dont think outside the box do you?
> 
> Give Gokuu SSj4. Give him ALL of Vegeta's, Piccolo's, Gohan's, Kaioshin's, and every Dragonball character alive's abilities and techniques and Gokuu will STILL LOSE HORRIBLY TO WAR HULK. *STOP BEING IGNORANT.*


Well if he gained Garlic jr.'s ability, he'd be immortal in a way... (yes I know it's filler).


----------



## Kucheeky Badkuya (Jul 6, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Well if he gained Garlic jr.'s ability, he'd be immortal in a way... (yes I know it's filler).



That would be sweet.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> yea i like how SSj4 and all is not alowed in this thread of blowing up planets etc.. ur taking alot of goku's STR's away....
> 
> 
> o well.


 
IMHO SS4 seems more like a step down.  The GT characters were so unbelievably inconsistent I don't see how you can use anything from it.  Goku at the end of GT (when he should have been at his strongest) had trouble lifting a building, when in the original dragonball (at his weakest) he was able to move a small mountain before training.

As for blowing up planets.  People love to say "oh, he could just blow the planet up".  Think about that for just a minute, would Goku EVER for ANY reason EVER blow up the earth?  He would never sacrifice a planet to win a fight, he's never blown up a planet and never will.

War Hulk is capable of destroying planets, but I doubt he would.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

think out of the box and stop being iggnorant? i should say that to alot of the people here that are going aganist goku..

at the end of GT he absorbed the dragonballs witch would make him immortal and the assumed power lvl of 1 billion..


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 6, 2005)

You ignored my last post.



			
				Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> think out of the box and stop being iggnorant? i should say that to alot of the people here that are going aganist goku..
> 
> at the end of GT he absorbed the dragonballs witch would make him immortal and the assumed power lvl of 1 billion..


 
Didn't someone just say power levels were never validated by toriyama?  And after the Freiza saga I believe there aren't any official power levels.

And if his power level really was that high, why did he had trouble lifting that stupid building?


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

^ umm when did he lift a building after he got those dragonballs into him? ii really got to watch that episode again please direct me to it.


----------



## Takuza (Jul 6, 2005)

SSJ3_Goku....Tell me ONE way Goku could beat the Hulk. Every single one of your reasons has been contered so far............


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

one way.... umm let me think back into DBZ Movies , the show etc..



Goku : SOLAR FLARe.

Hulk : AHH my eyes  what did u do to my eyes ! AHH i cannot see...

Goku : KAaaameehaaameehaaaaaaaa  ( so freaking huge bigger than the kid buus and gohones against cells) that he pushes him up into the sun like he did against cooler..


or 

GOku : SOlar FLARE!

Hulk: Ahh my eyES! 

Goku : Super Spirit Bomb! ( aka thats what the one was called against buu since he went super sayien to put more power into it so figure how much power would be in it at ssj3 lvl)

i can think of a few more ways but those 2 are pretty nice.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ umm when did he lift a building after he got those dragonballs into him? ii really got to watch that episode again please direct me to it.


 
I have a question for you, how is it possible to know his power level after absorbing the dragonballs? He didn't do anything after absorbing them.

And in GT their power levels should have been in the upper hundred millions yet in many ways they seemed weaker than before.

And if Goku is such a brilliant fighter, why couldn't he figure out that 17 was getting stronger each time he was attacked?

Nothing Goku would ever be willing to do would beat the Hulk, it would be like fighting Cell or Kid Buu, someone who will regenerate and just keep getting stronger.

As for Solar Flare, the Hulk's eyes would recover instantly, the solar flare wouldn't do shit.

As for the Spirt Bomb, do you honestly think War Hulk will sit there and let him form it?


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

^ thats not the question i asked...


oo i am sure he would recover instantly.. righttttt..


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 6, 2005)

He didn't lift the building after getting the dragon balls, it was shortly before hand, but his power should still have been more than sufficient if GT were anything more than garbage.

How about you answer all my questions, you still dodged my posts.

Do you have any idea what it means to have a healing factor like the Hulks?  You recover instantly from damn near everything.


----------



## Takuza (Jul 6, 2005)

Well...that takes care of all your solar flare plains.....


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

^ i am sure he would recover sooooo fast i mean he got freakin belted by the sun danmmit.. geez people are sure going overboard on some issues.

the spirit bomb he could get up pretty fast. .considering the kid buu saga one that one gained alot faster than freazia and the GT one was even faster than that.



still i would belt his ass towards the sun with a huge ass kamemeha.


----------



## Takuza (Jul 6, 2005)

well...now we know where we disagree...you don't think he can regenerate fast enough...well...I hope someone else well be able to prove that...since I can't.........


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> think out of the box and stop being iggnorant? i should say that to alot of the people here that are going aganist goku..
> 
> at the end of GT he absorbed the dragonballs witch would make him immortal and the assumed power lvl of 1 billion..



Wow.....for someone who likes Dragonball so much, you sure know VERY little about it......go grab the manga....read it, come back and tell us how wrong you are......

Dragonballs make him immortal......where the HELL did you pull this crap out of? A power level of 1 billion? Are you sure you're ok? Do you not see ANYTHING wrong with your reasoning? I feel like I'm talking to a 12 year old Dragonball fan who has only seen the DUB/FUNimatiuon version of Dragonball.....you my friend are in denial.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ i am sure he would recover sooooo fast i mean he got freakin belted by the sun danmmit.. geez people are sure going overboard on some issues.
> 
> the spirit bomb he could get up pretty fast. .considering the kid buu saga one that one gained alot faster than freazia and the GT one was even faster than that.


 
Belted by the sun?  What the fuck are you talking about?  The Solar flare is just a bright light that _temporarily_ blinds someone until their eyes can recover.  The Hulks body is able to regenerate from almost nothing lighting fast, recovering from just that minor damage to his eyes would take less than the amount of time it takes him to blink.

As for the spirit bomb, it doesn't matter, in both cases he still had to stand still for a very long time, the Hulk is not going to just sit there and let him gather than energy, and on top of that, all spirit bombs move slowly, the Hulk is more than fast enough to dodge it, hell I could probably dodge it.  I'm not going to just stand there like the dbz villains did.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

their was no manga for gt ....... he only got permission to do the show not draw the characters in the manga.

where does that light come from??? the sun jack.


i think the hulk is to slow to dodge that size of a spirit bomb.. ( the gt ones was  freaking huge and on top of it it was fast coming down at him)


----------



## Vodrake (Jul 6, 2005)

If I remember correctly, Tsukiyomi posted an image of Hulk recovering from being almost completley destroyed from a nuclear bomb(I think) hit within a few seconds. Solar Flare ain't got nothin' on that.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 6, 2005)

Vodrake said:
			
		

> If I remember correctly, Tsukiyomi (or was it Gooba :S ) posted an image of Hulk recovering from being almost completley destroyed from a nuclear bomb hit within a few seconds. Solar Flare ain't got nothin' on that.


 
That would be me, pretty much every hulk pic on this forum originally came from me heres the pic.



And here is one of the Hulk recovering from being a skeleton after Vector repelled all his flesh off (previous page has the frame of him as a skeleton).


----------



## ۩ReYmДN-dono۩ (Jul 6, 2005)

Vodrake said:
			
		

> If I remember correctly, Tsukiyomi (or was it Gooba :S ) posted an image of Hulk recovering from being almost completley destroyed from a nuclear bomb hit within a few seconds. Solar Flare ain't got nothin' on that.


if he regenerates after being completly destroyed .........hulk its ridiculous ...this match its not fair ....any match vs the hulk its not fair then


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

well if where tlaking about military forces here.. all dbz villins where attacked by the military and not even a scratch was on them.. the villiens all laughed and then the miliitary all died... why do i bring this up? because if military str could not do anything against the dbz villains but acculy do stuff to the hulk then thats pretty bad. 

Plus the only damage the dbz villians got infliiced on was by goku or vegeta or any sayien.

in anycase i am off to play SWG.


----------



## copyninja_kakashi (Jul 6, 2005)

you got to be freaking kidding me 
 goku would fucking win theres 
no competition here 
 remember that goku 
could become super sayin 3 in dbz


----------



## Takuza (Jul 6, 2005)

copyninja_kakashi said:
			
		

> you got to be freaking kidding me
> goku would fucking win theres
> no competition here
> remember that goku
> could become super sayin 3 in dbz



DID YOU RAED THE REST OF THIS THREAD!???!!!???

Do you need to ask? -Gooba


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> well if where tlaking about military forces here.. all dbz villins where attacked by the military and not even a scratch was on them.. the villiens all laughed and then the miliitary all died... why do i bring this up? because if military str could not do anything against the dbz villains but acculy do stuff to the hulk then thats pretty bad.
> 
> Plus the only damage the dbz villians got infliiced on was by goku or vegeta or any sayien.
> 
> in anycase i am off to play SWG.


 
I don't recall any of them ever being hit with nuclear weapons.  They were hit with small arms fire and heavy artiller shells.  The Hulk can shrug those off like nothing.  Show me the episode/chapter where a DBZ character was hit with a nuclear missle.

The fact remains that even if Goku could hurt the Hulk, he would just instantly recover.  The madder he gets the stronger he gets, the more durable he gets and the faster he is able to heal.


----------



## Raistlin-sama (Jul 6, 2005)

Ssj3 Goku said:
			
		

> Goku : SOLAR FLARe.
> 
> Hulk : AHH my eyes what did u do to my eyes ! AHH i cannot see...
> 
> Goku : KAaaameehaaameehaaaaaaaa ( so freaking huge bigger than the kid buus and gohones against cells) that he pushes him up into the sun like he did against cooler..


Honestly, when you have to pull in completly non-canon material from crap movies, that have nothing to do with the manga, then it's a sure sign, that your in denial. I don't think Goku's kamehameha can shoot anyone into the sun, it defies most logic.

I don't know anything about the hulk. But I have now seen all the owerwhelming proof for him winning, how hard can it be to understand?

Just give it up...


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jul 6, 2005)

I think it should be obvious to anyone that has read any posts by Tsukiyomi at all, that Hulk is basically unkillable.

But, I think that if Goku destroys him entirely, bones included, he would not regenerate. Simply put, he needs some kind of cells to regenerate with. When he was skeletal, he still had tissue inside of his bones. 

I'm sure Goku could muster up a kamehameha, or other Ki attack that has the power to erradicate Hulk completely, wether or not he would have the time to muster this attack is debatable.

Genki Dama would kill Hulk if it was powerful enough and hit, since he has evil inside of him. But it's debatable if Hulk would stick around long enough to get hit by that or not.

My contention is this: Goku would kill Hulk. He could teleport to a nearby planet, possibly New Namek, charge up a huge-ass Genki Dama, then teleport right behind Hulk like he did to Cell, and just lay it on him.


----------



## ۩ReYmДN-dono۩ (Jul 6, 2005)

> The fact remains that even if Goku could hurt the Hulk, he would just instantly recover. The madder he gets the stronger he gets, the more durable he gets and the faster he is able to heal.


then hulk shouldnt be put again the in the battledome...........cuz he would always wins........so hulk wins this fight


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 6, 2005)

crazymoronx said:
			
		

> But, I think that if Goku destroys him entirely, bones included, he would not regenerate. Simply put, he needs some kind of cells to regenerate with. When he was skeletal, he still had tissue inside of his bones.


 
I don't know about that.  The Maestro was essentially atomized by the Gamma Bomb, but still managed to survive and come back.



			
				crazymoronx said:
			
		

> I'm sure Goku could muster up a kamehameha, or other Ki attack that has the power to erradicate Hulk completely, wether or not he would have the time to muster this attack is debatable.


 
I doubt he would have time, the Hulk isn't a Shonen Villain, he won't just stand there waiting for goku to power up and finish calling out the name of his move.



			
				crazymoronx said:
			
		

> Genki Dama would kill Hulk if it was powerful enough and hit, since he has evil inside of him. But it's debatable if Hulk would stick around long enough to get hit by that or not.


 
I'll say it again, that move is amazingly slow.  I could probably run out of the way, the normal green hulk can easily run several hundred miles an hour, its even debatable as to wether or not the gamma energy in the hulk would allow him to make contact with the spirit bomb.  The Hulk would definetly have the raw power necessary to push it back.



			
				crazymoronx said:
			
		

> My contention is this: Goku would kill Hulk. He could teleport to a nearby planet, possibly New Namek, charge up a huge-ass Genki Dama, then teleport right behind Hulk like he did to Cell, and just lay it on him.


 
Once again, when has Goku ever destroyed a planet?  He doesn't destroy planets to win fights, especially if this fight takes place on earth.

Also, notice he didn't destroy all of cell, only the upper half, and the Hulk is quite a bit larger than cell.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Jul 6, 2005)

Obviously you didn't understand that last part.

Genki Dama isn't Kamehameha. That blew Cell in half because it was just large enough to do that. Genki Gama of the magnitude to destroy Hulk would be enormous, and he would be pushing it right into the back of his head coming down, guaranteeing total body coverage.

Also, this doesn't have anything to do with destroying a planet, as what I will now refer to as the "Buu Bomb" did not destroy that planet, but was the most powerful Genki Dama ever summoned by Goku at that point.


----------



## Insipidipity (Jul 6, 2005)

He'd take a while to heal if he hit the back of his head, but seriously, do you realize just how impervious the Hulk is to damage in ADDITION to his insane healing?


----------



## Codde (Jul 6, 2005)

Well there's no limit to how much of the universe's Goku can potentially handle. It all depends on if he can draw from the power and control it...


----------



## Insipidipity (Jul 6, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Well there's no limit to how much of the universe's Goku can potentially handle. It all depends on if he can draw from the power and control it...


Theres also no limit to the Hulk's strength, durability/toughness, and regeneration.  The madder hulk gets, the stronger he gets.


----------



## Takuza (Jul 6, 2005)

If the hulk CAN"T regerate after having no cells left...then Goku COULD win. just like crazymoron said, teleport, gain power, find away to hit him so that it won't blow up the planet.


----------



## acritarch (Jul 6, 2005)

im pretty sure the hulk cant die to a physical attack, heh... remember he has held open black holes and stopped juggernaut... both of which are physically impossible (laws of physics and such). holding open a black hole requires more strength and energy than a part of energy from every being in the universe (genki dama) since the mass becomes infinitely dense at the black hole's singularity and it would take more strength/energy to hold that open than life force energy.


----------



## ageofdarkness (Jul 6, 2005)

I still think the Hulk can regenerate from absolutely nothing.

As Tsukiyomi said, the Maestro after being hit with the Gamma Bomb had no cells or atoms left, yet he still came back.

If some ultimate Genki Dama completely destroys every cell and atom of War Hulk, (That's if he lets Goku do that) I believe he will still come back.


----------



## Gooba (Jul 6, 2005)

This thread is making me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 6, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> I don't recall any of them ever being hit with nuclear weapons.  They were hit with small arms fire and heavy artiller shells.  The Hulk can shrug those off like nothing.  Show me the episode/chapter where a DBZ character was hit with a nuclear missle.
> 
> The fact remains that even if Goku could hurt the Hulk, he would just instantly recover.  The madder he gets the stronger he gets, the more durable he gets and the faster he is able to heal.




umm frezia's blasts where bigger and more powerful than a nuke LOL.


----------



## lucky (Jul 7, 2005)

Gooba smashes and bashes puny forumites....


----------



## Gooba (Jul 7, 2005)

> Gooba smashes and bashes puny forumites....


Funny you should phrase it like that, I used to yell "Goober Smash!!!" before hitting things.


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

People lets stop debating this now.....the only way to counter stupidity is to become stupid and I do not want to stoop that low....

SSj3 Gokuu.....you are awesome my friend.

"Frieza's blasts are stronger than nukes lolz!"


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 7, 2005)

^ sure make fun of me i dont really care.  


But look at one of frezia's high end blast's and it just looks like a freaking nuke going off.


Seriously ALOT and i MEAN ALOT OF u people underistimate how powerful a Super Sayien Really is and considering their is 3 lvls ( 4 with gt) .

U might call me aggnorant and all that but half the people in this thread are also the same way about the hulk and exagerate on some stuff about the hulk as well.

O well ....


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

...underestimate.....buddy I know more about Dragonball than you will ever know in your life. I know more about what they are capable of than you can comprehend.....and I am not STUPID enough to say Gokuu can beat the Hulk...


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 7, 2005)

^ say all u want on how much u know dragonball blah blah blah.... I know people who know everything about dragaonball and say the same exact same thing .. Some people here are just sick of Dragonball being the all mighty powerfull people..

Its just that u dont put time and effort to think about the power of a super sayein into account of what u put against him.

You my friend are SEriously *UNDERESTIMATING SUPER SAYIENS * THAT IS  A FACT.


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ say all u want on how much u know dragonball blah blah blah.... I know people who know everything about dragaonball and say the same exact same thing .. Some people here are just sick of Dragonball being the all mighty powerfull people..
> 
> Its just that u dont put time and effort to think about the power of a super sayein into account of what u put against him.
> 
> You my friend are SEriously *UNDERESTIMATING SUPER SAYIENS * THAT IS  A FACT.



Explain to me how I am underestimating Super Saiya-jins.......? Did you even READ what the Hulk can do?

The only thing I am sick of is people like you saying Dragonball characters can beat these type of comic characters....


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 7, 2005)

^ dude if u can that would be great! i need the db manga on my pc again.. collecting manga for my anime/ manga server got over 155 gig.


GT u could say did not count or what not. but he did get permission from akira toryiama to make it and akira was their for for how the characters would look and what ssj4 would look like.

u could say i am overestimating super sayiens. but seeing how they dont get harmed from bigger blast's than what a nuclear bomb does then thats pretty much all i need.


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

You are correct, Chou Gohan is the strongest non-fused character in Dragonball....by FFAAAAAR.


----------



## ?Naruto-Kun? (Jul 7, 2005)

GOKU has got this, everytime there is someone that is really strong who comes along...Goku finds a way to surpass him/her  
So the ansewer is...War Hulk has no CHANCE against kakarot


----------



## Codde (Jul 7, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> You are correct, Chou Gohan is the strongest non-fused character in Dragonball....by FFAAAAAR.


Even more so than Goku who has trained for 10 continous years after the Buu Saga?

I like how you seem to insult people and take a superior tone and expect all to agree with you.(Maybe a tad bit of an exaggeration.)


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 7, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Even more so than Goku who has trained for 10 continous years after the Buu Saga?
> 
> I like how you seem to insult people and take a superior tone and expect all to agree with you.(Maybe a tad bit of an exaggeration.)




yea i dont htink gohon trained much or hardly at all during that 10 years where goku did every danm day i bet...  SO goku is the strongest in his universe. ( non fused) fused would be vegeto  at the end of dbz.


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> Even more so than Goku who has trained for 10 continous years after the Buu Saga?
> 
> I like how you seem to insult people and take a superior tone and expect all to agree with you.(Maybe a tad bit of an exaggeration.)



You realize the concept of potential....correct?

Gohan's potential is higher than Gokuu's and Half-Breeds have a higher potential than full blooded Saiya-jins.

Gohan's full potential was unlocked by the Chou Power Up.....he never has to train a day in his life, for power that is, because he will NEVER get stronger or weaker....

Gokuu no matter how much he trains can NEVER surpass Gohan.....and the gap between him and Gohan, WOULD need more than 10 years to close......WAY more.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Jul 7, 2005)

Umm gohon did not train at all it would seem for that 10 years and we know how weak gohon gets without training.. aka fat buu.


----------



## uatl (Jul 7, 2005)

Yes...
Comparing two different things in completely different world by using facts that don't even exist...

Where you get the "fact" that Kamekameha cannot harm War Hulk?
Since crossover is useless (according to Gooba) there is no way that you can tell who can win...


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ stop double posting its against the rules.. mature one.
> 
> 
> 
> Umm gohon did not train at all it would seem for that 10 years and we know how weak gohon gets without training.. aka fat buu.



Did you even read what I fucking posted??

GOHAN CANT GET WEAKER OR STRONGER.....TRAINING DOESNT MATTER.....


----------



## Codde (Jul 7, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> You realize the concept of potential....correct?
> 
> Gohan's potential is higher than Gokuu's and Half-Breeds have a higher potential than full blooded Saiya-jins.
> 
> ...


And I believe Gohan's potential was released before on Namek.... 

Each individual has their own potential. You can train past your limits if you work hard enough and the fact that Goku should be a special case considering how much times he's died and how much training he got during that time he was dead.

Gohan can get weaker... Don't use your muscles for so long. They deteriorate  ... Don't fight for long your fighitng senses will dull.


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> And I believe Gohan's potential was released before on Namek....
> 
> Each individual has their own potential. You can train past your limits if you work hard enough and the fact that Goku should be a special case considering how much times he's died and how much training he got during that time he was dead.



Only a part of Gohan's potential was unlocked on Namek.....as was stated by Guru.

You cannot go past your limits....which is why they are called ur LIMITS...Gokuu is no special case....each individual does have a set amount of potential....but Half-Breeds have more than Full Blooded Saiya-jins.

Uhh....Gohan CANT get weaker....his full potential was unlocked....do you not get what I am saying? O.o


----------



## uatl (Jul 7, 2005)

Why can't you pass your limits?

Last time I check, War Hulk did something that is IMPOSSIBLE...which made me wonder why people call that impossible...


----------



## Gooba (Jul 7, 2005)

I got an idea, everyone calm the fuck down.  Go back to arguing the facts.

*Facts:*
War Hulk is stronger than Goku
War Hulk is tougher than Goku
War Hulk is slower than Goku
War Hulk can fight people faster than Goku and hit them
War Hulk regenerates from anything, fast
War Hulk has no limit to strength, toughness, or regeneration
Goku has limits
War Hulk has shrugged off more powerful hits than SSJ3 Goku can give

*Conclusion:*
War Hulk wins.

Now debate that nicely.


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 7, 2005)

uatl said:
			
		

> Why can't you pass your limits?
> 
> Last time I check, War Hulk did something that is IMPOSSIBLE...which made me wonder why people call that impossible...



We are talking about Dragonball not the comic universe, in which everything defies logic.


----------



## ocsicnarf (Jul 7, 2005)

plain and simple, hulk is just boring.  They shoulda said it from the beginning, he cannot age, die, etc.  Its just retarded on how the hell he gets his powers from.  Anything that bleeds can die.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 7, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> You realize the concept of potential....correct?
> 
> Gohan's potential is higher than Gokuu's and Half-Breeds have a higher potential than full blooded Saiya-jins.
> 
> ...


 
Not to jump subjects, but personally I disagree with the statement that Gohan had the greatest potential.

Whenever Goku trained himself to truly improve himself, he increased in strength faster than anyone else could have. When he trained Gohan for a year he was training to help Gohan, not to help himself.

Take the training in space on his way to Namek, (I'm going by the english anime numbers so correct me if I'm wrong), he went from a power level of 5,000 to 180,000 in about 6 days, percentage-wise thats insane.

Gohan had to have help time and time again to become strong, he had the elder on namek "release his potential", he had the elder kai "release his potential", piccolo had to help train him specifically to get his power, Goku trained him at the expense of his own growth.

I won't be stupid and say Goku never got help or training, but atleast he EARNED all of his power. I believe had he trained himself instead of Gohan or gone in the room of space and time with Vegeta instead, then they both would have been strong enough to beat Cell.

Now back to the topic at hand, the Hulk is able to grow in strength at speeds Goku cannot hope to match. War Hulk in his base form could destroy a planet with a punch, and he's only going to get stronger and stronger as the fight goes on.



			
				ocsicnarf said:
			
		

> plain and simple, hulk is just boring. They shoulda said it from the beginning, he cannot age, die, etc. Its just retarded on how the hell he gets his powers from. Anything that bleeds can die.


 
How about you actually read the Hulk before you comment on the story, its an amazing story.  Personally I like it better than dragonball, but thats just me, I grew up on the Hulk.


----------



## Insipidipity (Jul 7, 2005)

Hulk is an amazing story, but terrible to use in fights.  In fact, anyone near invulnerable or with superregeneration or can't die or is just superstrong really shouldn't be in the battledome.  Fights about flexing your muscles really aren't that interesting to imagine.  You need people like Spiderman, captain america, Daredevil and Batman who are graceful and good fighters but not ridiculously strong.


----------



## P-Nut (Jul 7, 2005)

warhulk is constantly in hulk form or does he need to transform ? if so goku could easily finish him off if he's in bruce banner form or is war hulk a totally different character if so im sorry I joined this thread


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 7, 2005)

Final Ultima said:
			
		

> Base of 8,000 (max of 32,000 against Vegeta) to base of 90,000 (max of 180,000 against Captain Ginyu). Goku used Yonbai Kaiouken against Vegeta, but only used Kaiouken (contrary to popular belief, Kaiouken and Nibai Kaiouken are the same thing) against Captain Ginyu.
> 
> Still...yeah, it's a huge change, but it doesn't change the fact that it's stated that Gohan's potential is the highest.


 
When he hit 32,000 though thats not really his max power, he used kaiouken to push himself beyond his max, thats why King Kai was afraid his body would destroy itself.

Against captain Ginyu that was his own power he brought to the surface, he was using kaiouken against Freiza, not Ginyu.

I agree Hulk is a hard person to put in a fight against anyone non-cosmic, except of course against someone like Doomsday.

Also, War Hulk doesn't revert back to Banner.


----------



## Codde (Jul 7, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> Goku pWns aLl, evERyBodY is nothing cOmPARed to Goku, Goku>>>Gohan, Hulk, Batman with prep, Silver Surfer and Saint of Killers!!111!!!@!!!%!


Finally something I can agree with you on.


----------



## Gooba (Jul 7, 2005)

If you can't find those 2 pages of Goku vs Gohan, check this out.
 Toonami Naruto Edit Thread

Goku pwns the universe with 1 spirit bomb, GG Hulk, GG.


----------



## kapsi (Jul 8, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> War Hulk, he regenerates so well he makes Buu look like a leper.  Stopping the Juggernaut is physically impossible, as in the laws of physics were rewritten to say he cannot be stopped, yet he did it.


that makes sense


----------



## stomponfrogs (Jul 9, 2005)

After reading the first few pages, I think it seems pretty clear that the only people voting for Goku are the ones that really don't know much about War Hulk. Personally, I know I don't, but after reading what a lot of you have to say, it seems like he's invinsible (except in cases involving a gamma bomb). Unless Goku manages to get one of those, it seems like he doesn't have a chance. 

By the way, did all of you get this information on Marvel characters from reading comics, or is there some kind of website out there that says all of this?


----------



## Orochi_King (Jul 10, 2005)

well hell teleprot to the piccolo land en have him there heyyy hulk will be happier thee since all of the people there look green so he doesnt need to be angry so 

goku pawns him



Or maybe  goku weill just beat him up u mean Goku is so powerful
en hes too fast to i mean there is no anime that can with stand the speed en power of dbz


----------



## acritarch (Jul 10, 2005)

Orochi_King said:
			
		

> well hell teleprot to the piccolo land en have him there heyyy hulk will be happier thee since all of the people there look green so he doesnt need to be angry so
> 
> goku pawns him
> 
> ...



... anime, maybe. comics, yes. As we've already determined.


----------



## Final Ultima (Jul 10, 2005)

This versus thread is Goku vs War Hulk, not vs Bruce Banner, reverting is not a concern in this thread.


----------



## lekki (Jul 10, 2005)

War Hulk is the only thing in recorded history to stop the original Juggernaut with all his powers, not the pussy current Juggernaut that isn't even invulnerable.
Goku can be hurt, remember Krillin threw a rock at him once when he was unaware and it hurt him.


----------



## Final Ultima (Jul 10, 2005)

Filler, but yes, Goku can still be hurt by much less.


----------



## Xenophobia (Jul 10, 2005)

yes... Goku got hurt by a little pebble, with a tear drop coming out of him... yet, get plowed through a mountain by a punch that could split the earth in half and shrug it off it was it nothing....


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 10, 2005)

Xenophobia said:
			
		

> yes... Goku got hurt by a little pebble, with a tear drop coming out of him... yet, get plowed through a mountain by a punch that could split the earth in half and shrug it off it was it nothing....


 
In terms of physical strength the DBZ characters aren't that extreme.  I doubt that could shatter a planet with a punch, the focus has always been more on spiritual power.

The Hulk on the other hand is a nigh-unstoppable physical engine of destruction.


----------



## itachiunleashed (Jul 11, 2005)

hulk is unstoppable...thats it id like to see goku try anything


----------



## tdultima (Jul 24, 2005)

blow up planet

if hulk is still alive shoot him towards the sun

get dragonballs and wish back the planet

gg hulk


why do people keep mentioning nuclear explosions when every dbz character since vegeta (galic gun) could blow up the earth?


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 24, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> blow up planet
> 
> if hulk is still alive shoot him towards the sun
> 
> ...


 
Do you honestly believe Goku would be willing to kill off an entire planet just to get the hulk?  Even if he knew he could bring them back?  Goku would never harm an innocent being.


----------



## kapsi (Jul 24, 2005)

He let King Kaio die.


----------



## Othni (Jul 24, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> Do you honestly believe Goku would be willing to kill off an entire planet just to get the hulk?  Even if he knew he could bring them back?  Goku would never harm an innocent being.



Cell saga *cough*


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 24, 2005)

King Kai was fine, aside from having to live in a palace, his life was absolutely the same as it had always been.

Thats quite different from the billions of people he would have killed letting cell stay.


----------



## Codde (Jul 25, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> Do you honestly believe Goku would be willing to kill off an entire planet just to get the hulk?  Even if he knew he could bring them back?  Goku would never harm an innocent being.


He killed his grandfather... 

(Who knows... he might end up getting his tail somehow and looking at the moon which conveniently pops up...)


----------



## Kamendex (Jul 25, 2005)

Code said:
			
		

> He killed his grandfather...
> 
> (Who knows... he might end up getting his tail somehow and looking at the moon which conveniently pops up...)



Except Gokuu wasnt WILLING to kill Grandpa Gohan....he turned Oozaru and had no control.....and why would him going Oozaru make it better? It's weaker than his transformations...(well weaker than SSj3).


----------



## Codde (Jul 25, 2005)

Well who knows what will happen if he magically grows his tails back, there's a full moon, and he's super saiyan 3...

I merely pointed out a condition in which he was "willing to kill."


----------



## Maffy the Love Doctor (Jul 25, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> I doubt that could shatter a planet with a punch



frieza can with a finger:. i vote that they rule the universe together (with madonna of course).


----------



## Bullet (Aug 9, 2005)

I go with War Hulk.


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 11, 2005)

Mafioso11 said:
			
		

> frieza can with a finger:. i vote that they rule the universe together (with madonna of course).



omg hahaha

I voted goku


----------



## XxGreat Hokage NarutoxX (Aug 11, 2005)

in terms of stamina hulk has the advantage as we know that super saiyan 3 cant be held as long as the hulks state, but goku is much faster then hulk and as we know all the strength in the world aint shit if u cant hit the opponent.....but in the long run goku's ki attacks would take hulk out no contest


----------



## acritarch (Aug 11, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> omg hahaha
> 
> I voted goku



And you would be wrong. Read the thread.




			
				XxGreat Hokage NarutoxX said:
			
		

> in terms of stamina hulk has the advantage as we know that super saiyan 3 cant be held as long as the hulks state, but goku is much faster then hulk and as we know all the strength in the world aint shit if u cant hit the opponent.....but in the long run goku's ki attacks would take hulk out no contest



Read the thread. Hulk has faced opponents who can move faster than Goku and can keep up with them. Hulk wins.


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 11, 2005)

braindx said:
			
		

> And you would be wrong. Read the thread.



As far as I know....Goku's winning. So I wouldn't careless ^_^

And as far as comparing speed from Goku and other characters....I don't think any of us are accurate, because they're not in the same show. So we really don't know IF he can- be hit, or not by the Hulk.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Aug 11, 2005)

war hulk grabs goku while he's trying some beyond light speed crap and tears him in half end of story.

OTHER SCENERIO

 goku charges up ultra blast blows up the solar system killing them both

I don't get what this discussion is about

Goku cannot teleport him into the sun.. just in case that was said by anyone


----------



## acritarch (Aug 11, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> As far as I know....Goku's winning. So I wouldn't careless ^_^
> 
> And as far as comparing speed from Goku and other characters....I don't think any of us are accurate, because they're not in the same show. So we really don't know IF he can- be hit, or not by the Hulk.



That's because the people on this forum have a bias for a character they know, and they think DBZ is more powerful than they are without knowing anything about the other character first. Simple as that.

Hulk is not as fast as Goku, true, but he has fought people with superior speeds than Goku and won.


----------



## Bullet (Aug 11, 2005)

braindx said:
			
		

> That's because the people on this forum have a bias for a character they know, and they think DBZ is more powerful than they are without knowing anything about the other character first. Simple as that.
> 
> Hulk is not as fast as Goku, true, but he has fought people with superior speeds than Goku and won.




Exaly!


----------



## GTOnizukadude (Aug 11, 2005)

ah, good.  ssj3 goku is gone.  He had no idea what was going on-_-u

Thank you Kamendex for fighting him.  Rep for you!


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 11, 2005)

GTOnizukadude said:
			
		

> ah, good.  ssj3 goku is gone.  He had no idea what was going on-_-u
> 
> Thank you Kamendex for fighting him.  Rep for you!



haha thnx....he was such a fanboy.


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 11, 2005)

shika shika boo said:
			
		

> war hulk grabs goku while he's trying some beyond light speed crap and tears him in half end of story.
> 
> OTHER SCENERIO
> 
> ...



I'm agreeing with the second theory haha


----------



## Bullet (Aug 11, 2005)

Hulk wins. SSJ3/4 Goku isn't packing enough punching/fire power to stop War Hulk. Hes been up against people far stronger than Goku, and as he gets madder his attacks become more and more softer. Every thing ssj3/4 Goku throw at him War Hulk will heal from in seconds.


----------



## Green Lantern (Aug 12, 2005)

Quite funny thing though- Everyone agree's that Kid Buu is far superior to Hulk
and Goku beat Kid Buu,
but Goku cannot beat Hulk

Why is that?


----------



## konflikti (Aug 12, 2005)

radishbak said:
			
		

> Quite funny thing though- Everyone agree's that Kid Buu is far superior to Hulk
> and Goku beat Kid Buu,
> but Goku cannot beat Hulk
> 
> Why is that?


Because a>b and b>c doesn't mean a>c in comic fights. Dunno if Kid Buu is superior to Hulk tho'...


----------



## Tsukune Aono (inactive) (Aug 12, 2005)

what is SSJ3 Goku...and i think Goku will win


----------



## Othni (Aug 12, 2005)

radishbak said:
			
		

> Quite funny thing though- Everyone agree's that Kid Buu is far superior to Hulk
> and Goku beat Kid Buu,
> but Goku cannot beat Hulk
> 
> Why is that?



Because buu can't really be hurt by physical attacks which the hulk is mainly that. It's just different types of abilities. That's all. That's just like saying that A firehose beat Sandman and...pikachu beat the firehose...does that mean pikachu can beat sandman.  Just all in the powers.


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 12, 2005)

Kid Buu cant beat Hulk, Hulk cant beat Kid Buu. In terms of power and regeneration Hulk is far superior.


----------



## Zariel (Aug 12, 2005)

I need a quick clarification, which brain does war hulk have? grey, green, or bruce?

In all instances War Hulk wins, its just how fast he wins.

And as it has been stated war hulk can stop someone who can go the speed of light (silver surfer) and defy the laws of the universe (stop juggernaught)


----------



## Gaara137 (Aug 12, 2005)

goku got my vote...


----------



## Bullet (Aug 12, 2005)

radishbak said:
			
		

> Quite funny thing though- Everyone agree's that Kid Buu is far superior to Hulk
> and Goku beat Kid Buu,
> but Goku cannot beat Hulk
> 
> Why is that?



SSJ3 Goku never came close to beating Kid Buu, he had to take a rest because ssj3 transformation was taking up way to much energy. He couldn't continue fighting so Vegeta took his place while he rested up (but he still was losing power). Kid Buu is equal to an ssj3 Goku, who could barely lift halve a city, Hulk takes punches from beings that crush planets and stars with his bare hands; Goku stands no chance if he can't even take punches from some body whos on the level of a ssj3. Every attack ssj3 Goku throws him he won't feel it, if he gets hurt he'll heal from in seconds.

This is the guy Hulk fought and defeated.

... and again

That's Gladiator in that scan, he destroyed a star with a single strike. Hulk hits Goku one time and it's over.


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 12, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> SSJ3 Goku never came close to beating Kid Buu, he had to take a rest because ssj3 transformation was taking up way to much energy. He couldn't continue fighting so Vegeta took his place while he rested up (but he still was losing power). Kid Buu is equal to an ssj3 Goku, who could barely lift halve a city, Hulk takes punches from beings that crush planets and stars with his bare hands; Goku stands no chance if he can't even take punches from some body whos on the level of a ssj3. Every attack ssj3 Goku throws him he won't feel it, if he gets hurt he'll heal from in seconds.
> 
> This is the guy Hulk fought and defeated.
> 
> ...



I think I learned my lesson in this thread after reading the "Something to remember in comic book matchups" thread, and read what moderator "reznor" says.

*SkOTW 16*

Goku...shouldn't be in any type of battle thread, since alot of people will agree it's litteraly "over kill" for anything, besides God, (mythology gods, demi-gods etc)

But for you FANBOYS out there, just don't seem to get it heh?...

Anyways...thats what I think..feel free to flame me.

Btw Kamendex you get reps from me ^_^


----------



## Bullet (Aug 12, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> I think I learned my lesson in this thread after reading the "Something to remember in comic book matchups" thread, and read what moderator "reznor" says.
> 
> *SkOTW 16*
> 
> ...



I think your the fanboy (DBZ/GT) for putting something up like that. The DBZ/GT characters aren't that powerful, and can be defeated by lots of characters.


----------



## Dark Shadowx (Aug 12, 2005)

Yeah...they only win by some stupid transformation

War Hulk.....Goku can't cut it in terms of strength, speed, and possibly power


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 12, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> I think your the fanboy (DBZ/GT) for putting something up like that. The DBZ/GT characters aren't that powerful, and can be defeated by lots of characters.



Ok....so I'm a fanboy because I agree to what a moderator said right? Did you even go the link? Probably didn't heh....
.
Look kid....I only put that up to tell people something. I do LIKE dbz.. but I don't like it as much as bleach, or Naruto. And Yes Dbz characters can be beat by 1 character only..Akira Toriyama ^_^  

And Junidaime made a good point about
GOKU
Silver Surfer
God
Super Man
etc... are too overpowered too have "sane" debates on

Geeze...

Whoever made this thread I give reps to*


----------



## tdultima (Aug 13, 2005)

if cell could destroy the solar system then ssj3 goku would be way beyond that

it doesn't matter if hulk is strong

he won't survive dbz planet busting beams


----------



## Zouri (Aug 13, 2005)

I don't remember Cell being able to destroy a solar system. And SSJ3 Goku is WEAKER than Kid Buu. He couldn't beat him and he ended the fight with a Spirit Bomb.

War Hulk has him beat 8-ways to Sunday.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 13, 2005)

Did any villain ever do more than destroy a single planet at a time?  Think about how much space is between each planet in a solar system, that would have to be an unimaginable explosion.


----------



## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> if cell could destroy the solar system then ssj3 goku would be way beyond that
> 
> it doesn't matter if hulk is strong
> 
> he won't survive dbz planet busting beams



Cell isn't close to destroying Solar Systems. no


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 13, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Cell isn't close to destroying Solar Systems. no



I'm actually agreeing with you.

Cell is strong...but HE CAN'T destroy solar systems.

I dont think goku could've beat cell.....cause he let Gohan go for him.

Ultimately...i think cell can beat war hulk, but he can't beat ssj3 goku.


----------



## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> Ok....so I'm a fanboy because I agree to what a moderator said right? Did you even go the link? Probably didn't heh....
> .
> Look kid....I only put that up to tell people something. I do LIKE dbz.. but I don't like it as much as bleach, or Naruto. And Yes Dbz characters can be beat by 1 character only..Akira Toriyama ^_^
> 
> ...



Maybe the moderator needs to watch more DBZ/GT because they aren't that powerful. And every body on that list can be defeated by other characters aswell (God not included). :


----------



## Zouri (Aug 13, 2005)

Wait, Cell beat War Hulk. There's no way that's happening. War Hulk is too strong for Cell to even touch him. War Hulk is just way to powerful, and SSJ3 doesn't last as long as people think. It's 15 min at most I think. In either case, even if both were to gang up on him I'm pretty sure War Hulk would come out on top.


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 13, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Maybe the moderator needs to watch more DBZ/GT because they aren't that powerful. And every body on that list can be defeated by other characters aswell (God not included). :



You obviously didn't go to the link. And I bet the mod watched ALL the dbz episodes.....

I told you...one person can only beat DBZ characters. And thats akira toriyama!

God can destroy anything so i cant include him in this.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 13, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> Ultimately...i think cell can beat war hulk, but he can't beat ssj3 goku.


 
Uh huh, and what are you basing that off of? What is Cell going to do to him? Hulk's healing power is beyond Cell's, Maestro came back from being reduced beyond _atoms._ Cell needs a full cell (and his cells are quite big as I recall).

In terms of physical strength the DBZ guys aren't all that impressive and with War Hulks sword putting him in the celestial range of power he could probably stand up to any energy blasts the DBZ guys can cook up. Apocalypse seemed confident War Hulk could take on a Celestial being, Marvels Celestial beings make DBZ characters look like nothing.

DBZ characters are horrendously over-rated.  Give me one example of a DBZ character destroying more than a single planet.  They've never done it and I don't think they can destroy more than one at a time.  There are numerous Marvel and DC characters capable of destroying universes with a thought, so don't think too highly of DBZ guys.


----------



## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> Uh huh, and what are you basing that off of? What is Cell going to do to him? Hulk's healing power is beyond Cell's, Maestro came back from being reduced beyond _atoms._ Cell needs a full cell (and his cells are quite big as I recall).
> 
> In terms of physical strength the DBZ guys aren't all that impressive and with War Hulks sword putting him in the celestial range of power he could probably stand up to any energy blasts the DBZ guys can cook up. Apocalypse seemed confident War Hulk could take on a Celestial being, Marvels Celestial beings make DBZ characters look like nothing.
> 
> DBZ characters are horrendously over-rated.  Give me one example of a DBZ character destroying more than a single planet.  They've never done it and I don't think they can destroy more than one at a time.  There are numerous Marvel and DC characters capable of destroying universes with a thought, so don't think too highly of DBZ guys.



Nicely put! :


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 13, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> What is Cell going to do to him.



He's gonna rape him and steal his sword....what else is he gonna do to him? Seriously man I think cell can beat war hulk haha.

And I'm basing it off What I've seen cell do. ^_^

By the way tskuyomi it's funny what you said on this thread to other people haha


----------



## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> He's gonna rape him and steal his sword....what else is he gonna do to him? Seriously man I think cell can beat war hulk haha.
> 
> And I'm basing it off What I've seen cell do. ^_^
> 
> By the way tskuyomi it's funny what you said on this thread to other people haha



Hulk has with stood star destroying attacks, with toe to toe with Gladiators who destroy stars with his bare hands or energy blast, was strong enough to crack Onslaught armor, fought Thor countless of times, and lots more powerful beings. Hulk won't go down to ssj3 Goku, who I think whould just be wasting his time hitting him because he won't be able to hurt him that much; every thing Goku throws at Hulk he'll heal from in seconds. And Cell can beaten to a plup, and then get tossed in the sun.


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 13, 2005)

By the way...can war hulk bleed? Cause ssj3goku once said...(I think it was ssj3goku haha)

"Anyone who bleeds can die.."

And don't give me some noobish answer like...

"War hulk can't bleed against goku.." or.

"War Hulk is un bleddable..."

Just curious 

They should make a show where the strongest characters in each show fight...and yes add pokemon into it!

I'd just love to see goku fight hulk..


----------



## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> By the way...can war hulk bleed? Cause ssj3goku once said...(I think it was ssj3goku haha)
> 
> "Anyone who bleeds can die.."
> 
> ...



Yes Hulk could bleed if badly injured. But he heals very fast, so you whould have to keep pounding him.


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 13, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Yes Hulk could bleed if badly injured. But he heals very fast, so you whould have to keep pounding him.



Alright thats all I wanted to know.


----------



## Green Lantern (Aug 13, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> DBZ characters are horrendously over-rated.  Give me one example of a DBZ character destroying more than a single planet.  They've never done it and I don't think they can destroy more than one at a time.  There are numerous Marvel and DC characters capable of destroying universes with a thought, so don't think too highly of DBZ guys.



Kid Buu was teleporting around a solar system and destroying planet after planet at an extremely fast rate while Goku was charging up his Genki Dama at the end of the Buu saga if I recall correctly

(Not saying that Goku can beat Hulk, but answering your point about DBZ characters destroying multiple planets)

And as for why Kid Buu beats Hulk, read the thread which was posted sometime back- Kid Buu can *scream* holes in the fabric of time and space


----------



## Dark Shadowx (Aug 13, 2005)

> Uh huh, and what are you basing that off of? What is Cell going to do to him? Hulk's healing power is beyond Cell's, Maestro came back from being reduced beyond atoms. Cell needs a full cell (and his cells are quite big as I recall).
> 
> In terms of physical strength the DBZ guys aren't all that impressive and with War Hulks sword putting him in the celestial range of power he could probably stand up to any energy blasts the DBZ guys can cook up. Apocalypse seemed confident War Hulk could take on a Celestial being, Marvels Celestial beings make DBZ characters look like nothing.
> 
> DBZ characters are horrendously over-rated. Give me one example of a DBZ character destroying more than a single planet. They've never done it and I don't think they can destroy more than one at a time. There are numerous Marvel and DC characters capable of destroying universes with a thought, so don't think too highly of DBZ guys


Kid Buu. And Frieza. We've never seen Frieza, though we can assume he has from his ramblings in DBZ.

About the Cell thing....you all forgot that he has the ability to increase his strength after healing from mortal wounds. Added with his regenerative factors and he has a small chance. Of course if Hulk pounds him constantly and Cell regenerates and powers up, he has a good chance. And he powers up by alot, proving this fact in the Cell Games when he returned as an SSJ2

why SSJ2? Cell has most of the Saiyans abilities. Also, he's the only villian to have a _yellow aura_, just like the SSJ's. When he returned from the dead, yellow aura AND electricity, just like SSJ2's.

Him and Kid Buu are probably the only ones who could beat War Hulk...probably

And Kid Buu didn't rip holes, Evil Buu did that.


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## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

radishbak said:
			
		

> Kid Buu was teleporting around a solar system and destroying planet after planet at an extremely fast rate while Goku was charging up his Genki Dama at the end of the Buu saga if I recall correctly
> 
> (Not saying that Goku can beat Hulk, but answering your point about DBZ characters destroying multiple planets)
> 
> And as for why Kid Buu beats Hulk, read the thread which was posted sometime back- Kid Buu can *scream* holes in the fabric of time and space



Buu can sceam a hole in the fabric of time but that doesn't mean hes physically more powerful.


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## Dark Shadowx (Aug 13, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Buu can sceam a hole in the fabric of time but that doesn't mean hes physically more powerful.


Oh come on dude....that stuff is powerful  

And I read something in this thread about Oozaru control....having a tail does increase your strength, but  nobody other than Vegeta can control an Oozaru state.


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## Kamendex (Aug 13, 2005)

radishbak said:
			
		

> Kid Buu was teleporting around a solar system and destroying planet after planet at an extremely fast rate while Goku was charging up his Genki Dama at the end of the Buu saga if I recall correctly
> 
> (Not saying that Goku can beat Hulk, but answering your point about DBZ characters destroying multiple planets)
> 
> And as for why Kid Buu beats Hulk, read the thread which was posted sometime back- Kid Buu can *scream* holes in the fabric of time and space




Umm....no he cant....Kid Buu cannot scream holes in the "fabric of time and space....." However, Super Buu can.....but seeing as how Super Buu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kid Buu and SSj Gotenks>>>>Kid Buu and SSj Gotenks couldnt do it.....Kid Buu cannot....

Dragonball characters are seriously overrated....

And to the ignorant person who said only AT can beat a Dragonball character.....please leave...and never debate again.

And Azn_Sephiroth why in the HELL  would you include Gokuu in the category of "too strong to have a sane debate about" when Gokuu is not even CLOSSSSSSSE to being the strongest in his OWN anime?


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## Priest_Mahado (Aug 13, 2005)

I voted Goku (Man it took so long to activate this new account)
But i Prefer Anime than American Animation 

no offence if your g** with a guy that is green, with huge musclse, and is a complete idiot


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## konflikti (Aug 13, 2005)

Priest_Mahado said:
			
		

> I voted Goku (Man it took so long to activate this new account)
> But i Prefer Anime than American Animation
> 
> no offence if your g** with a guy that is green, with huge musclse, and is a complete idiot


Take out green and we are talking about Goku. War Hulk is less idiot than Goku is by the way.

One should also remember that when it comes to Battledome, it doesn't matter which character you prefer.


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## tdultima (Aug 13, 2005)

cell can destroy the solar system

ssj3 goku > cell



> Cell explains that he now has the power to gain strength from near
> death experiences like a Saiyan; he may regenerate from a single cell
> like Piccolo; and like Frieza, Cell may survive at any place. Cell now
> plans to use his great power to destroy the entire solar system




Check this out.


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## azn_sephiroth (Aug 13, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> Take out green and we are talking about Goku. War Hulk is less idiot than Goku is by the way.
> 
> One should also remember that when it comes to Battledome, it doesn't matter which character you prefer.



Well actually.....Goku doesn't have that huge of muscles unless he turns ultimate  ssj. ( Or asended saiyan)

Second: Goku is NOT stupid. Anyone can tell...he may act stupid, but he isn't stupid. Yajirobee's stupid, goku isn't.

And yes I agree with you on the battledome part.


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## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> cell can destroy the solar system
> 
> ssj3 goku > cell
> 
> ...



Cell can't destroy solar systems. Did he actually do that? Nope!


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 13, 2005)

Dark Shadow said:
			
		

> Kid Buu. And Frieza. We've never seen Frieza, though we can assume he has from his ramblings in DBZ.


 
Ok, first off read my post again, I said I doubt they can destroy more than one at a time, and none of them have EVER destroy multiple planets in a single blast, it was always one at a time.  Regular Hulk has reached levels of anger where he can destroy things bigger than the earth.



			
				Dark Shadow said:
			
		

> About the Cell thing....you all forgot that he has the ability to increase his strength after healing from mortal wounds. Added with his regenerative factors and he has a small chance. Of course if Hulk pounds him constantly and Cell regenerates and powers up, he has a good chance. And he powers up by alot, proving this fact in the Cell Games when he returned as an SSJ2


 
Hulk's regenerative abilities put Kid Buu and Cell to shame, he's the only fictional character I've seen come back from being atomized


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## tdultima (Aug 13, 2005)

ill upload proof from the manga

CELL CAN DESTROY THE SOLAR SYSTEM


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## azn_sephiroth (Aug 13, 2005)

^ woah....haha


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## tdultima (Aug 13, 2005)

if cell can do it

ssj3 goku or buu can easily do it as well


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## konflikti (Aug 13, 2005)

Well did he destroy solar system with that ki? Because I can tell the same thing to you too and laugh on top of it.


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## tdultima (Aug 13, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> Well did he destroy solar system with that ki?



no because ssj2 gohan blocked it

and ssj3 goku > ssj2 gohan

thats the whole point


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## Uchiha_Zero (Aug 13, 2005)

Goku wins as much as I hate admitting it.


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 13, 2005)

Uh huh, and how did Gohan block this without half the planet being blown away?  My point still stands, not a single DBZ character or villain has destroyed more than one planet at a time, even Buu who was supposed to be the strongest.  Why didn't he just take out solar systems instead of planets?


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## tdultima (Aug 13, 2005)

i don't know its a manga and hulk is a comic book

i cant offer explainations for what happens

all i know is that cell said he can destroy the solar system

hell even early vegeta could destroy a planet with the galic gun

as for why villians dont dont simply destroy the entire solar system, its because if they did that there would be no story


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## konflikti (Aug 13, 2005)

It's a tech. desinged for taking out planet. He can't do that by simply gathering his ki and sending it to the planets direction. I'm starting to think that Hulk has enough raw strenght to brawl a ki attack back to its source or atleast deflect it. Not like it did any permanent damage to him anyway.


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 13, 2005)

I'll restate what I said before about regeneration.  No DBZ (or GT for that matter) character has ever come back from having all their cells destroyed.

An incarnation of the Hulk came back from having his body atomized, there weren't even atoms left of him, just his energy signature.  THATS how insane his healing power is.


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## azn_sephiroth (Aug 13, 2005)

Can hulk heal after he gets aids? From pink hulk from Mad T.v ^_^


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## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> ill upload proof from the manga
> 
> CELL CAN DESTROY THE SOLAR SYSTEM



How do you know Cell wasn't bullfing? Because he was off by Gohan with a Planet destroying blast.


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## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> It's a tech. desinged for taking out planet. He can't do that by simply gathering his ki and sending it to the planets direction. I'm starting to think that Hulk has enough raw strenght to brawl a ki attack back to its source or atleast deflect it. Not like it did any permanent damage to him anyway.



Hulk does, he walked right through Galdiators star destroying blast. And Healed in only a few seconds.


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## Priest_Mahado (Aug 13, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> Can hulk heal after he gets aids? From pink hulk from Mad T.v ^_^


LOL hahaha so true so true

lol double my real post is the second one



			
				konflikti said:
			
		

> It's a tech. desinged for taking out planet. He can't do that by simply gathering his ki and sending it to the planets direction. I'm starting to think that Hulk has enough raw strenght to brawl a ki attack back to its source or atleast deflect it. Not like it did any permanent damage to him anyway.


man u wrong its not talk without an extra push from goku, gohan could of died. so if he is able to beat gohan in one of his strongest stage the solar system could of been destroyed (solar system = destory the nine planets and moons including the sun, that means gohan and goku can destoy the sun which they were only in ssj 2 so if goku gose ssj3 he can destory something bigger than a solar system which mean more stars)

is war hulk, hulk's ultamait form? 
if yes 
why don't u vs him with gokus ultamait form (if he bonded with the dragon balls he can just make the war hulk vanish lol) only if yes


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## Bullet (Aug 13, 2005)

Priest_Mahado said:
			
		

> man u wrong its not talk without an extra push from goku, gohan could of died. so if he is able to beat gohan in one of his strongest stage the solar system could of been destroyed (solar system = destory the nine planets and moons including the sun, that means gohan and goku can destoy the sun which they were only in ssj 2 so if goku gose ssj3 he can destory something bigger than a solar system



Prove that he can destroy a solar system? Because Buu wasn't capable of even doing that.


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## konflikti (Aug 13, 2005)

Priest_Mahado said:
			
		

> man u wrong its not talk without an extra push from goku, gohan could of died. so if he is able to beat gohan in one of his strongest stage the solar system could of been destroyed (solar system = destory the nine planets and moons including the sun, that means gohan and goku can destoy the sun which they were only in ssj 2 so if goku gose ssj3 he can destory something bigger than a solar system which mean more stars)
> 
> is war hulk, hulk's ultamait form?
> if yes
> why don't u vs him with gokus ultamait form (if he bonded with the dragon balls he can just make the war hulk vanish lol) only if yes



I was talking about Galic Gun. There is no record of Goku fighting after absorbing Dragon Balls. He might as well lost all his powers after that. (ain't that correct? I ain't DB GT specialist to be truthful)And see the name of the thread? Yeah, Goku from DBZ versus War Hulk. That's it.

And I do know what is solar system... *sigh*


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## Dark Shadowx (Aug 13, 2005)

> Originally Posted by Dark Shadow
> Kid Buu. And Frieza. We've never seen Frieza, though we can assume he has from his ramblings in DBZ.
> 
> Ok, first off read my post again, I said I doubt they can destroy more than one at a time, and none of them have EVER destroy multiple planets in a single blast, it was always one at a time. Regular Hulk has reached levels of anger where he can destroy things bigger than the earth.
> ...



Oh my bad.

Well, pretty much, only Buu has destroyed planets in DBZ one at a time. Once during the Kid Buu saga and from what Supreme Kai said about Buu during the World Tournament

Vegeta never uses Galic Gun again after the Saiyajin Saga

War Hulk wins..


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## Kamendex (Aug 13, 2005)

Priest_Mahado said:
			
		

> man u wrong its not talk without an extra push from goku, gohan could of died. so if he is able to beat gohan in one of his strongest stage the solar system could of been destroyed (solar system = destory the nine planets and moons including the sun, that means gohan and goku can destoy the sun which they were only in ssj 2 so if goku gose ssj3 he can destory something bigger than a solar system which mean more stars)
> 
> is war hulk, hulk's ultamait form?
> if yes
> why don't u vs him with gokus ultamait form (if he bonded with the dragon balls he can just make the war hulk vanish lol) only if yes



Umm....Gokuu never gave any extra push...he was only their spiritually for support...nothing else. Plus, Gohan was less than 50% of his power during that fight...and his final unleashing of his power that killed Cell was only at 50% (since he lost 50% from Cells blast...stupid Vegeta). All that power was Gohan's...Gokuu did not shoot a kamehameha with him


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## Priest_Mahado (Aug 13, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> I was talking about Galic Gun. There is no record of Goku fighting after absorbing Dragon Balls. He might as well lost all his powers after that. (ain't that correct? I ain't DB GT specialist to be truthful)And see the name of the thread? Yeah, Goku from DBZ versus War Hulk. That's it.
> 
> And I do know what is solar system... *sigh*


well sorry about the mix up



			
				Kamendex said:
			
		

> Umm....Gokuu never gave any extra push...he was only their spiritually for support...nothing else. Plus, Gohan was less than 50% of his power during that fight...and his final unleashing of his power that killed Cell was only at 50% (since he lost 50% from Cells blast...stupid Vegeta). All that power was Gohan's...Gokuu did not shoot a kamehameha with him


no i meant like he talked to his son and convinced him that he can do it (i didn't mean power boost)


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## Kamendex (Aug 13, 2005)

Priest_Mahado said:
			
		

> no i meant like he talked to his son and convinced him that he can do it (i didn't mean power boost)



Except you were saying Cell could've beat Gohan...when that is not true. Gohan was PURPOSELY holding back because he did not want to damage the earth...but Gokuu told him to unleash the rest of the power he had left (which was about 50% of his full power).


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## Othni (Aug 13, 2005)

First off, priest Mahado, quit double posting and triple posting. There is a such thing as 'Edit' 

Ok, the thing with kid buu and not destroying all planets. He was searching. Goku was hiding and so far away that he couldn't sense him. But buu did not know that so he looked on every planet and if he found nothing of interest, he destroyed it. Also, he destroyed it with himself on it. At first it took him like...one second to regenerate from that blast, but then after that, it was immidiate.


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## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 14, 2005)

i just want to say one thing. in the Majin buu saga where debora and babitii mesure gokus power..

debora says its possible to destroy a planet with 300 killies ( i think thats how u spell it) 3000 a human with that much power does notexisit ( goku a t 3000 killies) i mean so hell thats pretty strong just going to ssj1 form.. danm. ( also says this in the manga)


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## Kamendex (Aug 14, 2005)

Yes....Gokuu can destroy a planet....how this makes him even remotely deadly towards War Hulk is beyond me....


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## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 14, 2005)

300 is to destroy a planet 3000 just in super sayen 1 that nuts to me...


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## konflikti (Aug 14, 2005)

Well that really doesn't indicate anything. It is not like 'killies' is some universal thing you can compare things with. Hulk takes hits from sun busters and is ready to brawl more. He gets reduced to skeleton and first thing he asks for is new pants after regenerating in time span of seconds.


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## Othni (Aug 14, 2005)

That's just saying that he's more than a 'sun buster'. He's a universal buster with blast that are bigger than war hulk's body.


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## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 15, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> Well that really doesn't indicate anything. It is not like 'killies' is some universal thing you can compare things with. Hulk takes hits from sun busters and is ready to brawl more. He gets reduced to skeleton and first thing he asks for is new pants after regenerating in time span of seconds.




true i am just indicating that if  they say onl 300 to destroy a planet and in ssj1 hes at 3000  ( i know killies but their is a big gap their and if they have the power to destroy a plent at 300 picture what they can do in 3000 just in ssj1... I mean  reduced to a skeleton thats cool and all but the dbz goku has enough power to reduce him to no atoms or cells at all. i mean 300 to destroy a planet and in ssj1 3000 .. I am just saying their expressions of that kind of power in the anime/ manga it amazes me that they still have ( well goku) 2 forms of power left and that does not count the training he did after the buu saga.


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## lekki (Aug 15, 2005)

I can't believe that it got to 308 posts personally

War Hulk can punch holes in reality but by the end of DBZ, Goku is so strong he can fight a being that can make holes in reality by yelling...

That is enough to show who wins this fight.


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## Zouri (Aug 15, 2005)

Ok, I am tired of this. Unfortunately, everyone seems to think that SSJ3 Goku is the strongest fighter in existence, and that none can stand up to him. However, not only is SSJ3 Goku not the strongest fighter in his own series, he is not the strongest fighter period. I hope that this post proves it, as well as War Hulk's victory.

1) SSJ3 is not invincible. Yet, in this fourm that seems to be what I'm seeing. First off, I'm almost positive that no one in SSJ3 has EVER won a fight in the DBZ series. SSJ3 Goku tied with Fat Buu, the weakest of the Buu incarnations. SSJ3 Gotenks, who Goku states is stronger than him, lost to Evil Buu, who I feel is the third strongest form of Buu. Because the two of them split during the fight, I call it a loss. Later, SSJ3 Goku lost to Kid Buu, the second strongest Buu (who, though i could be wrong, could not shout holes in reality). As you can remember, everyone Buu absorbed had been taken from him, and even Vegeta stated that Buu had weakened drastically when he entered Kid Buu form. Meaning Super Buu, the one that fought Vageto (sp?) has to be the strongest form. SSJ3 Goku's fight is a loss in my book, because Vegeta had to sub in for him as he knew Goku was losing. He only did this so Goku could power a Spirit Bomb, which leads me to my next point...

2) The Spirit Bomb does not count as Goku's power. It is a technique taught to him by King Kai, and only gains power through people giving their energy. This technique, to my knowledge, also has not been able to kill any villain during the series. It failed to kill EARLY Vegeta, Freeza, and Buu. And because everyone thinks that it is stronger than a Kame-hame-ha, if it can't defeat EARLY VEGETA, then it can't defeat War Hulk. Also, the amount of time needed to conjure up a Spirit Bomb in the past has been ridiculously long. Against, Kid Buu, it took what must have been 10 minutes to get it to where it was, and that was only because of Hercule's assistance. Also, as I recall, the Spirit Bomb against Kid Buu was being pushed back, and he was only defeated after being knocked into it (I could be wrong on this, but if my memory serves correctly, this is the truth). Therefore, Sprit Bomb can;t be a factor in Goku's strength.

3) Though both Buu and Cell have regenerative abilities, both have failed to protect them. As we can see with Cell, the only reason he came back was because he had one cell left. Though he meant to blow up the world with his suicide attack, he was somehow kept alive. And now, for me to clear something up...

	This strays away from my point for a bit, but how could Cell blow up a Solar System? I own the Cell games fight in Shonen Jump format, the entire battle, and I can not recall Cell ever being able to reach that kind of power. Tomorrow, I will personally look up the manga myself and see if he could. Sorry for not being able to believe proof from one picture, but it seems wierd how Cell's suicide blast could only destroy Earth, yet he can destroy a Solar System. Also, I can't see the pic.

Now, back to where I was, yes he could come back using one cell, but as  Tsukiyomi put it, War Hulk revived from a single atom. Much less than a Cell. Also, if Gohan could destroy every cell in Cell's body, then it can't be seen as a good regenerative system. Next, Buu, who was also completely destroyed. Though never explained how powerful his regenerative system was, everyone can assume it was stronger than Cell's. However, this does not mean it can withstand attacks that destroy galaxies. Hulk, regular Hulk, can destroy galaxies if angry enough. All we've ever seen Buu do was destroy one planet at a time. (And don't tell me he did more than ONE in a single blast, though the Kais said it, it was never shown. And, that was a more powerful Buu than Kid Buu if I remember correctly.) Whenever Buu regenerated as I recall, there was almost always a large portion of his body left (ie. right side of his body, something large). This leads me to belive that Buu's ability to regenerate is not as great as people see it. Now, as we've seen before, comic book characters have died. War Hulk, however, did not die. Therefore, I put his abilities above Buu's.

4) This one is short. SSJ3 Goku is of course greater than SSJ2 Gohan. Why this was even brought up is beyond me. The real question is, is SSJ3 Goku stronger than Mystic Gohan, which most people would agree is NOT the case. There was a topic like that, but I'm not searching for it. Look it up to see that the major consensus would see Gohan as the victor.

And Lastly, this one is a personal vendetta of mine. (Something that SSJ3 Goku said. No offense, but I hear this too often in DBZ debates, and it annoys me.)

SSJ3 Goku, those numbers mean nothing. Any fan site will give you fake numbers to try and add more content, and those "killias" or whatever seem to be extremely off. As I recall, Raditz had a power level of 400+. Yet he was unable to destroy a planet. Yet, you say 300 of these "killias" can destroy a planet. This info you have seems to be suspect of some misleading levels. As I remember, when Goku fought Nappa his base power level was 5000+ or something to that effect. Vegeta could blow up a planet, and we all know that he was much stronger than Nappa. Therefore, we can conclude that to destroy a planet, one would need more than 300 whatevers.

Now, I know this post has been god-awfully long, and that I must look insane for getting this involved in something this stupid. However, I don't care. I'm just sharing my point in this debate, which is currently spinning out of control IMO. Not because of it's length, but because of info being passed around. Personally, I'm hoping that someone will take the time to read all of this and give me a nice rebuttal, but I doubt that will be the case. 

Now, as I end my post, all I can say is I hope that people will at least take the time to read this. I am anxiously awaiting replies, hopefully with some counter-statements.

-Zouri


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## lekki (Aug 15, 2005)

1.I don't recall anyone saying he's invincible but if they did, what they probably meant was compared to us, he's pretty much invincible
2.Spirit Bomb killed Buu. He's a martial artist, every bloody thing he does is learned.
3.Goku wanted the kids to defeat Fat Buu so earth won't rely on a dead guy.
4. SSJ3 Goku is not stronger than Mystic Gohan
5. SSJ3 Goku destroys the War Hulk.
.


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## itachidattebayo (Aug 15, 2005)

An SSJ1 Goku can destroy earth, let alone an SSJ3 and if you absorb Goku's power, you will blow.......(Babidi Saga)


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## lekki (Aug 15, 2005)

Yeah, but they're not allowed to destroy the earth in this fight.


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## Othni (Aug 15, 2005)

He learns quick at that too.  And even if he's not allowed to blow up earth, he's still alowed to blow up war hulk.  And for zouri's big longass rebuttle (is that how you spell it?) Cell sayed "I've gathered enough 'ki' to not only blow up earth, but the whole solar system" He's talking about his kamehameha...I think


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## Kamendex (Aug 15, 2005)

Umm SSj3_Goku is not making up the killies info....it is in the manga...

Also, why does that matter? Destroying a planet would do nothing short of piss off the Hulk....

And I still dont see why people are using SSj3 Gokuu vs Hulk.....INSTEAD of CHOU GOHAN. I mean War Hulk is light years ahead of Gohan and Gohan is light years ahead of Gokuu.....so why would someone not make a thread that says Chou Gohan vs War Hulk...even though Hulk would win...it would be a lot better fight.


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## azn_sephiroth (Aug 15, 2005)

Zouri said:
			
		

> SSJ3 Goku, those numbers mean nothing. Any fan site will give you fake numbers to try and add more content, and those "killias" or whatever seem to be extremely off.



Uhh no....those numbers ARENT made up....geezus christ...


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## Hatsune Miku (Aug 15, 2005)

SSJ3Goku. He's a Saiyan to the highest level. Ain't afraid to kick War Hulk's ass.


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## Kamendex (Aug 15, 2005)

Kizuna_Kohaku said:
			
		

> SSJ3Goku. He's a Saiyan to the highest level. Ain't afraid to kick War Hulk's ass.



Oh no....Gokuu is a big bad Super Saiya-jin....please read about War Hulk before making such an irrational comment....Gokuu would get torn to shreds.


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## Zouri (Aug 15, 2005)

I guess I should clear something up: (using Lekki's post)

First off, I never said anyone actually said Goku was invincible, that's just the general tone I get from any conversation about DBZ, which annoys me.

Two, though I'm probably wrong, I thought that the Spirit Bomb was being pushed back by Buu. Though I'm only going by my memory of seing the anime, I recall that he was pushing it back until something happened, but I could be wrong.

Three, I did forget about that, so I'll give you that one.

Four, why I added the Mystic Gohan reference was because I think a better match up would be Mystic Gohan vs. War Hulk. Because since Goku couldn't be a weaker version of Buu without a Spirit Bomb (which I don't count as a part of his power), I don't really think of Goku as highly as Gohan.

Five, as for the Solar System thing, I'll also give that to you. (Though it still seems wierd as hell that Cell can.)

And for the numbers bit, I know that there are numbers for measuring power levels, it's just that those numbers IMO really don't mean anything. Especially once you get to Freeza. Once there, numbers mean little more than squat. And since those numbers can't be used to base anything, I don't really call them usefull in a debate.


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## Kamendex (Aug 15, 2005)

The Genki Dama was pushed back by Buu because Gokuu did not have enough energy himself to push it....the Genki Dama itself had MORE than enough energy to kill Kid Buu.


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## Zouri (Aug 15, 2005)

Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me Kamendex.


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## Kamendex (Aug 15, 2005)

Yep yep no problem...


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## Priest_Mahado (Aug 16, 2005)

I am amazed that this tread is still alive


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## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 16, 2005)

numbers mean squat well i am just trying to prove a point at that part of the story he in ss 1 3000 killies where dabora said only 300 to destroy a planet i mean hell a soloar system or some shit can go with 3000.. its just the fact that it shows that Goku is a fucking power house and he still has ssj2 and 3 to go to..


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## EvilMoogle (Aug 16, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> numbers mean squat well i am just trying to prove a point at that part of the story he in ss 1 3000 killies where dabora said only 300 to destroy a planet i mean hell a soloar system or some shit can go with 3000.. its just the fact that it shows that Goku is a fucking power house and he still has ssj2 and 3 to go to..



I love numbers, gives me a chance to inject some math into a thread.

Give a few assumptions:
Killies have a linear progression (due to the jumps between "power ups" this seems logical).
"Destroy a planet" means "destroy an Earth-like planet" not "destroy the smallest planet" nor "destroy any planet regardless of size"

Then we know that the sun is 1252 times the Earth's size (volume), destruction based on size would take a killies rating of around 375,600.

However to me mass seems a better indicator of destructive force required.  The sun's mass is about 333,000 times that of the Earth.  This would bump up the Killies rating required to destroy the sun to around 99,900,000.

The real question is how many killes does a SSJ3 Goku have (which isn't stated in the comic, as I understand it.  A better question might be how many Killies does he have before SSJ1 so we can get an understanding of the increase in power between normal and SSJ1 and apply this to SSJ2 and SSJ3).

Then for comparison we should look at the Hulk's villians and what they're able to do and assign Killies ratings to them as well, and we'll get a good numrical analysis.  Sadly I've not read much of the Hulk (let alone War Hulk) so I'll leave this up to someone else to bring up.


----------



## Othni (Aug 16, 2005)

^ Also what's hard about that is that goku was calm at that time. (I beleave) and he usually gets really pissed so that increases his killies thingies. And killies is different from powerlevel so we can't really find it on a site...math is fun, but sometimes really hard when you have almost nothing to work with.


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## konflikti (Aug 16, 2005)

Well if Hulk is really pissed off, physics don't apply to him. I think that should solve the problem already. It seems that people don't realize that something that trumps the physics is definately going to bring Goku down. 
...for the enemies, Hulk has fought Gladiator, who is a Superman level combatant, able to destroy sun with punch.


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## GTOnizukadude (Aug 16, 2005)

SSJ3 Goku, please go away.  You lose.
Hulk smash puny monkey.


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## Hatsune Miku (Aug 16, 2005)

GTOnizukadude said:
			
		

> SSJ3 Goku, please go away.  You lose.
> Hulk smash puny monkey.



Nice one GTOnizukadude. Though I'm on Goku's side.


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## Bullet (Aug 16, 2005)

Hulk wins this. SSJ3/4 Goku won't be able to stop Hulk at all. He'll basiclly tire himself out trying to fight Hulk (which by the way ssj3/4 Goku doesn't have the physical strength to hurt Hulk), Hulk takes planet/star destroying physical and energy attacks all the time. Hulk will heal from evry attack ssj3/4 Goku throws at him.


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## tdultima (Aug 16, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> Hulk has fought Gladiator, who is a Superman level combatant, able to destroy sun with punch.



when has gladiator ever destroyed a sun with one punch?


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## tdultima (Aug 16, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Hulk takes planet/star destroying physical and energy attacks all the time.



such as? examples?



> Hulk will heal from evry attack ssj3/4 Goku throws at him.



hulk can't fly

goku can shoot the entire planet towards the sun

any proof hulk can survive in the sun? infinite regeneration forever in the sun? will he jump off the sun?


----------



## Priest_Mahado (Aug 16, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> such as? examples?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol man and anyway even if u other guys say hulk wins, goku wins in the polls lol


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## acritarch (Aug 16, 2005)

Priest_Mahado said:
			
		

> lol man and anyway even if u other guys say hulk wins, goku wins in the polls lol



Well, that's cause people don't read the thread or they don't know Hulk's abilities otherwise it's quite obvious why Hulk would win.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> hulk can't fly
> 
> goku can shoot the entire planet towards the sun
> 
> any proof hulk can survive in the sun? infinite regeneration forever in the sun? will he jump off the sun?



Sigh.

1a. Hulk doesn't need to fly. He's beat people who have greater speeds than Goku.
1b. Also, he can just clap multiple times and the air shockwave from his hands will destroy Goku. Please keep in mind the air compression waves from an atomic bomb is what actually destroys most of the stuff in the blast radius.

2a. Goku wouldn't destroy a planet.
2b. Even if Goku acted to destroy earth (in any sort of way), Hulk could jump into space and survive
2c. Goku cannot survive in space

3a. Hulk would not die in the sun as he would be so angry that someone put him there in the first place that his regeneration rate wouldn't let him get vaporized.
3b. Also, Hulk would get so angry (And therefore strong) that he would get enough power in his legs to jump off of the sun. We already discussed this in the thread before so if you would mind reading it before you post any more nonsense it would be appreciated.

4. The only category where Goku is better than Hulk is speed, and the Hulk has beat people who are faster than Goku. Therefore, the Hulk wins.

5. This is not debatable as it is all facts.


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## Green Lantern (Aug 17, 2005)

Firstly I need to make a big point-
This match is *WAR HULK*

Not Maestro Hulk!!

*War Hulk does not have Silver Surfers board*, 

and *Maestro Hulk, Not War Hulk, was the one who came back from atoms*
Maestro Hulk is the ultimate form of Hulk because he has absorbed many years worth of radiation, and because he has the mind of Bruce Banner

*So when you say that Hulk has been vaporised into atoms, you are incorrect*- *War Hulk was not vaporised into atoms, Maestro was, and it is War Hulk who is in this match*

Also to the Goku people saying that Goku could blow up the planet etc, Note the beginning of the match in which I stated: *No planetary destruction*

Pay attention to details and get your facts straight!


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## acritarch (Aug 17, 2005)

Whoops, hehe. I'll edit before people respond.


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## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 17, 2005)

I still stand at what i said early about the killies and all.. Thats alot of danm power and still has 2 forms left. so i still says ssj3 goku wins.


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## Bullet (Aug 17, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> I still stand at what i said early about the killies and all.. Thats alot of danm power and still has 2 forms left. so i still says ssj3 goku wins.



SSJ3/4 Goku hasn't the slightest chance at winning this fight. Goku even at his strongest incarnation isn't enough to even stagger War Hulk. One hit from the Hulk and the fight is over. 

Here's some of the Hulk feats:

The Hulk squeezing adamantium.

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

We see here Gladiator destroying planets/stars with his barehands and his Heat Vision (that's hotter than stars). Hulk is just walking threw his Heat Vision and in seconds heals from the attack.

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Here's Hulk destroying a asteriod twice the size of Earth.

 Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Hulk caring an Island while swimming in the water.

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Hulk taking a planet destroying blast from Vector who does it with ease. And then he fights him again with even more force that burn his flesh off of his body, which Hulk heals from in just a matter of seconds.

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Vanilla Ice - Go ninja 

Hulk wins this with no problem at all. Those were just normal Hulk feats, not even Savage or War Hulk who ssj3/4 Goku is fighting against. He stands little chance of winning against Hulk.no


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## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 17, 2005)

and vegeta destroyed a planet and a moon with his danm finger. and that was in the sayein saga...

the regeneration is np he was reduced to a skelaton and back again.. Cell had 1 danm cell left and he came back.. Buu came back from just smoke. I mean a powerful enough blast from goku and hulk wont regenerate back IMO. 

but everyone has their opionon .. plus goku has speed on his side and the instant transmission.. to each his own i guess.


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## tdultima (Aug 17, 2005)

> and vegeta destroyed a planet and a moon with his danm finger. and that was in the sayein saga...



exactly nothing posted here has even surpassed early vegeta

perfect cell after regeneration evolved to the point where he could destroy the solar system

ssj3 goku is not the strongest in the manga but he is stronger than cell thats for sure


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## azn_sephiroth (Aug 17, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> SSJ3/4 Goku hasn't the slightest chance at winning this fight. Goku even at his strongest incarnation isn't enough to even stagger War Hulk. One hit from the Hulk and the fight is over.
> 
> Here's some of the Hulk feats:
> 
> ...



No body cares.....

And i agree with tdultima and ssj3 goku.


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## tdultima (Aug 17, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> I'll restate what I said before about regeneration.  No DBZ (or GT for that matter) character has ever come back from having all their cells destroyed.
> 
> An incarnation of the Hulk came back from having his body atomized, there weren't even atoms left of him, just his energy signature.  THATS how insane his healing power is.



first of all the fact that the MAESTRO (the strongest version of the hulk?) can be disintergrated by the gamma bomb proves that the hulk can in fact be defeated



second maestro didnt regenerate himself, he needed YEARS of radiation from the hulk to recover in a weakened state

yes the hulk has great regeneration but if goku shoots him into the sun thats the end of him


*Incredible Hulk v2 #460 - The Maestro came back to life ten years after being blown up by the Gamma Bomb.*


*In this "Hell" Bruce Banner spoke to the Maestro. The Maestro told him that no matter how long they die, given enough time they will always come back. He explained that the reason Bruce could always find the gamma bomb site is because Maestro's spirit was calling him there and his remains soak up gamma rays from his body, slowing reforming itself.

At the end of the issue, the Maestro's body was seen rising from the ground after finally healing himself from death.*


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 17, 2005)

Wow, someone posted hulk scans...and it wasn't me?



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> first of all the fact that the MAESTRO (the strongest version of the hulk?) can be disintergrated by the gamma bomb proves that the hulk can in fact be defeated


 
Are _you_ attempting to lecture _me_ on the Hulk? First off, the Maestro is not the strongest Hulk in terms of durability and strength, that would be the mindless Hulk. The Guilt Hulk is most definetly above him, without using his genius brain I doubt Maestro could put a dent in the Guilt Hulk. There is also the Devil Hulk who IMHO has the most potential for power.

There is a reason that Marvel comics themselves refer to the Hulk as "the most powerful creature to ever walk the face of the earth", his potential power is INFINITE.  The Beyonder himself once acknowledged there was no limit to the Hulk.

Secondly, the Gamma bomb tore him apart because it used Gamma radiation as a weapon, the source of the Hulk's existence, its the one thing you could say he is vulnerable to in _extreme_ amounts. And like you were so kind to point out, he came back.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> second maestro didnt regenerate himself, he needed YEARS of radiation from the hulk to recover in a weakened state
> 
> yes the hulk has great regeneration but if goku shoots him into the sun thats the end of him


 
The point is, he STILL came back from being reduced BEYOND ATOMS. Cell and Buu need a full cell atleast in order to come back, Maestro did it from being reduced beyond the atomic level.

Im tired of people using that stupid sun example, its been tried. Numerous people have tried taking the Hulk out into space, it never ends well for them.

As for the Sun destroying him, I'm not sure its the right frequency of radiation to exploit the Hulks weakness, and his healing factor could keep up with that with enough anger.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> *Incredible Hulk v2 #460 - The Maestro came back to life ten years after being blown up by the Gamma Bomb.*
> 
> 
> *In this "Hell" Bruce Banner spoke to the Maestro. The Maestro told him that no matter how long they die, given enough time they will always come back. He explained that the reason Bruce could always find the gamma bomb site is because Maestro's spirit was calling him there and his remains soak up gamma rays from his body, slowing reforming itself.*
> ...


 
Ahhh, gamma base, not a bad source of info. Thanks for pointing out that they always come back, in actuality I wouldn't say they "die", they just take longer to regnerate. This essentially proves that nothing Goku can ever do will KILL the Hulk, but the Hulk can kill Goku.


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## tdultima (Aug 17, 2005)

hulk can regenerate after MANY YEARS if he can get radiation

im saying goku can find a way to disintegrate him and win the battle

but if winning means hulk outlives everyone i guess he wins

although goku can wish for eternal life with the dragonballs


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 17, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> hulk can regenerate after MANY YEARS if he can get radiation
> 
> im saying goku can find a way to disintegrate him and win the battle
> 
> ...


 
Thats Maestro healing from atomization.  Like I said, atleast 3 incarnations of the Hulk are beyond him and would be able to regenerate faster, the Mindless Hulk (if anything could physically damage him) would probably recover from atomization as fast as the normal Hulk recovers from normal physical injuries.

Find a way to disintegrate him?  How?  The only way its ever been done is with a the gamma bomb, a weapon in absolute perfect sync with his powers (since it created them), the Hulk's been hit with nuclear weapons before and been perfectly fine (healing in seconds after only having parts of his body  injured).  Unless Goku has some kind of gamma based attacks I doubt he could disintegrate the Hulk (even if he did, there is always a chance the Hulks body would just absorb it as it does with most forms of radiation).

War Hulk (the one in question) is the savage Hulk augmented to the cosmic level of power by apocalypse, we have yet to see War Hulk hurt or even slowed down.


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## tdultima (Aug 17, 2005)

if vector can push off a lot of hulks flesh why can't goku disintegrate him?

or goku can just shoot the entire planet into the sun and hulk can spend his eternity there


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 17, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> if vector can push off a lot of hulks flesh why can't goku disintegrate him?
> 
> or goku can just shoot the entire planet into the sun and hulk can spend his eternity there


 
Vectors power is the ability to repel matter, essentially to cause an object to be torn apart under its own force. Its debatable that NOTHING would be beyond his ability to repel since it most likely occurs on the molecular level.

That couldn't be anymore different than a blast of energy trying to damage something. In that case durability is a factor on top of regeneration.

Also, when has a DBZ hero ever destroyed a planet?  Goku would never do that to win a fight.


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## korican04 (Aug 17, 2005)

azn_sephiroth said:
			
		

> No body cares.....
> 
> And i agree with tdultima and ssj3 goku.


THat's a little rude, seeing as someone asked specifically for examples of when gladiator destroyed a planet and/or suns or hulk showing planet destroying capabilities..... but I guess no one cares about that person's (tdultima's) request then..


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## tdultima (Aug 17, 2005)

the gamma bomb is an energy blast isnt it? otherwise wouldnt the gamma radiation make him even stronger?

you just have to hit hulk with something powerful enough to disintegrate him and goku can take out planets

and look forge's gun can kill the hulk


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## korican04 (Aug 17, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> the gamma bomb is an energy blast isnt it? otherwise wouldnt the gamma radiation make him even stronger?
> 
> you just have to hit hulk with something powerful enough to disintegrate him and goku can take out planets
> 
> and look forge's gun can kill the hulk


The thing with the gamma radiation is that it causes a back lash of the same type of energy that created him, that's why it makes him either stronger or is able to harm him greatly, I believe this was explained in  the maestro story. 
Unless goku can produce the same type of gamma then he's assed out with regular "energy" blasts that the hulk will heal from, a lot of things can hurt the hulk but that's what the healing factor takes care of.
I'm not saying hulk would decimate goku but goku isn't or has access naturally to gamma radiation blast of some sort.


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 18, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> the gamma bomb is an energy blast isnt it? otherwise wouldnt the gamma radiation make him even stronger?
> 
> you just have to hit hulk with something powerful enough to disintegrate him and goku can take out planets
> 
> and look forge's gun can kill the hulk


 
Gamma radiation is a bit of a wild card, its the most lethal form of radiation (I believe), but in the marvel universe 1 in 10,000 people can survive exposure (like Bruce Banner).

Since the source of the Hulk's power is Gamma radiation (its also the type his body naturally produces), it can potentially make him immensly stronger or counter the gamma radiation in his own body, thus allowing for greater damage than is normally possible.

So you see, its not just any energy, its the specific kind capable of hurting him most, but even that can't eliminate him totally.


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## korican04 (Aug 18, 2005)

^ you and i said with the same explantion essentially


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 18, 2005)

korican04 said:
			
		

> ^ you and i said with the same explantion essentially


 
Time delay of having 7 windows open caused us to overlap, nice to see someone else talking lucid Hulk info.


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## korican04 (Aug 18, 2005)

^ no worries, i'm just glad my memory of comics that I read a while back is still there. Good to have someone confirm.


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## Gooba (Aug 18, 2005)

I was going to post a parallel to resonance, but I saw you viewing this thread and figured you would do a better job.


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## tdultima (Aug 18, 2005)

if gladiator's eyebeams(not gamma) can cut through the hulk...

can't a large enough eyebeam just disintegrate him? like goku's beams?

and the sun thing...goku can wish back the planet

what is hulk going to do in the sun?


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## korican04 (Aug 18, 2005)

If goku blows up the planet, he dies, cause he can't survive in space, therefore he's assed out too. 
War Hulk, the one we are talking about probably won't be scratched so easily. He is celestially enchanced. I really don't think the beam would disintegrate war hulk, but that's my opinion. 
I think goku has the advantage as he has a lot of other abilities, but going near the hulk with a million punches like he always does in fights will get him killed yet again.
The point of these fights also is to have the people mentioned fight it out, this fight wasn't goku and the dragon balls vs normal hulk. This was War Hulk alone against SS3 Goku alone. Otherwise what's the point of fight.


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 18, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> if gladiator's eyebeams(not gamma) can cut through the hulk...
> 
> can't a large enough eyebeam just disintegrate him? like goku's beams?
> 
> ...


 
Gladiator fought the regular hulk and barely managed to damage him in the scope of things, keep in mind this is a beam that has destroyed planets.  Gladiator with all his powers couldn't beat the normal savage hulk, in fact he only survived because a little boy begged the Hulk not to kill Gladiator.  Now we're talking about War Hulk who is far above that, like I said we never saw him scratched or even slowed down.

The fact remains Goku will never harm an innocent person to win a fight, and that includes all the living animals on earth.

As for what he's going to do in the sun, knowing marvel he would eventually become powerful enough to find a way out (either through anger or absorbtion of radiation).


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## tdultima (Aug 18, 2005)

all im really asking is if hulk can survive total disintegration

because if cell can destroy the solar system then goku can probably muster up a beam to disintegrate hulk

and if it takes years for the hulk to regenerate from it ill count that as a win for goku...the battle at least

and i think goku can survive in space long enough to teleport to another planet


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 18, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> all im really asking is if hulk can survive total disintegration
> 
> because if cell can destroy the solar system then goku can probably muster up a beam to disintegrate hulk
> 
> ...


 
Has Goku ever atomized anything? Maestro was atomized, Goku has destroyed all the cells in enemies, but never with his own power, he always needed a spirit bomb to disintegrate someone so don't assume he can disintegrate someone as durable as the Hulk, let alone War Hulk.

As for surviving, we don't know, War Hulk was never injured, so we never got to see his healing factor in action, but you can bet your ass if his strength and durability were augmented that much that his healing factor was also, so he probably could. I mean come on, his powers were augmented to the celestial level.

Imagine Hulks normally insane healing factor + celestial power.  Goku would exhaust himself before he could kill Hulk.


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## korican04 (Aug 18, 2005)

I'll let tsukyomi handle the disintegration question.
But for the teleportation, goku couldn't teleport out of the planet when buu was about the blow it up, cause he was rushing and felt pressure (the kai came and saved him) and goku was still on earth with air and an atmosphere, so I doubt he could do it in the coldness of space, with no air, in a vaccumm, after the blast of an exploding earth.


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## Bullet (Aug 18, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> if gladiator's eyebeams(not gamma) can cut through the hulk...
> 
> can't a large enough eyebeam just disintegrate him? like goku's beams?
> 
> ...



No. Gladiators Blast is hotter than stars (sun), none of the DBZ/GT characters come blast come close to that much power.


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## Dark Shadowx (Aug 18, 2005)

PLus Goku can't live in Space. Only Freeza and Cell can.


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## tdultima (Aug 18, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> No. Gladiators Blast is hotter than stars (sun), none of the DBZ/GT characters come blast come close to that much power.




since the eye beam can clearly injure hulk...and its as hot as a star...how will hulk survive in the sun?


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## Gooba (Aug 18, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> as hot as a star





			
				Bullet said:
			
		

> hotter than stars


...


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## lekki (Aug 18, 2005)

I specifically remember the Hulk being able to take Gladiators eye beams. 
In fact, the last fight between them had the Hulk ending the fight by smashing the Gladiator into a nuclear reactor. I'm sure someone remembers this fight, Gladiator looked so pathetic.

Problem is Hulk varies so much but one thing I can assure you, that crap wouldn't happen with Warhulk, but Goku stilll wins


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## Kamendex (Aug 18, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> and vegeta destroyed a planet and a moon with his danm finger. and that was in the sayein saga...
> 
> the regeneration is np he was reduced to a skelaton and back again.. Cell had 1 danm cell left and he came back.. Buu came back from just smoke. I mean a powerful enough blast from goku and hulk wont regenerate back IMO.
> 
> but everyone has their opionon .. plus goku has speed on his side and the instant transmission.. to each his own i guess.



No he didnt....that was filler...Saiya-jin saga Vegeta is nowhere near powerful enough to destroy a planet with his finger.....

And stop with the killi crap...you cant compare that to Hulk....Gokuu can destroy a planet easily...so wat? Hulk can regenerate from it easily....


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## Shinigami No1 (Aug 18, 2005)

I dont think regeneration should count i think thats weak...
If they both had unlimited energy so that war hulk could regenerate forever, if Goku had the power to vapourise him he would also be able to do that forever. Thus it ends as stalemate but clearly war hulk has lost...
Hears my arguments for this massive thread lol...

Goku is a skilled warrior and martial artist with speed far surpassing basically anyone anywhere in any anime or american comic (poss excl. the flash but thats a discussion for a different battledome). He is also the strongest in his anime where to even be considered a threat you have to basically be able to blow up a planet with a finger and regenerate in some way or another (for the DBZ crew it was the dragonballs...). Goku ALWAYS gets stronger during his fights ALWAYS. An if its not due to him gettin beat down its because something or someone important to him is in danger.

The war hulk is not a character i know much about but going by the hulk an the little i do know i would say war hulk is a creature using raw power with speed incomparable to Videl let alone Goku lol. I hear rumours that he can regenerate from mere molecules but how long does that take? an also im sure that if the molecule of your enemy was floating about goku would have the brains to zap it one more time. Also i heard in this discussion about war hulk being comparable to celestial beings with his sword an the CB are greater than Goku. What a load of trash its all relative. I think all marvel/DC characters or watever fight their respective gods/CBs at one point jus when there own storyline runs out an the writer needs something to do. I pretty sure spiderman faced a CB at one point and one but does anyone here think that spiderman could beat goku!?!

War hulk would not be able to touch Goku an im not even talking about from a power perspective im talking about speed, if you cant catch it you cant hit it and im sure that Goku would figure out a way to put war hulk down or wear him out long enough jus to pile drive him with energy. And if war hulk ever threatened the earth or gokus family it would jus increase gokus power, i dont know of any attributes like that for War Hulk as far as im concerned hes jus big strong and angry lol. 

Anyway as you can see i prefer DBZ/GT, i always found those muscle fights of the hulk boring and slow but hey if all else fails we can jus look at the results of the poll cant we...


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## Gooba (Aug 18, 2005)

You might want to read the rest of the thread.  Goku is way way slower than Silver Surfer and the Flash, yet the Hulk was able to catch SS's surfboard.


----------



## Scared Link (Aug 18, 2005)

Goku will obviously win this fight.


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## Shinigami No1 (Aug 18, 2005)

hmm... i never think of the silver surfer as fast in a conventional sort of way. Yeah he travels the galaxy an all that but i mean speed as in combat situations...
Also im sure the board was caught in a really gay way in one of those stories where the surfer doesnt use his powers is neglectful an the hulk pops up an catches him... i very much doubt there was any chase involved but if im wrong then cool but hes still not gonna beat goku on reactions cos than your telling me that war hulk could keep up with SSJ3 speed which is faster than when goku an cell fought on the tournament an they were buzzing about.
(btw i think thats the best animated DBZ fight as they were really fast but they didnt do the gay *flurry of limbs* drawing which made it look even faster!!)


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## EvilMoogle (Aug 18, 2005)

There are basically three major points to consider in this fight, and they add up to a Hulk win to me (the debate should focus around the second point for those that disagree).

1.  _If the Hulk manages to get his hands on Goku, Goku will die._  I don't generally consider this a point open to argument, Goku has shown time and again that he can be killed, and generally by amounts of force that seem to be much less than he can deal out.  If anything, the Hulk is the opposite, he can deal out great amounts of force, but he can take far greater hits without even getting hurt.

As it is, however, Goku is much faster, and as long as he stays on the defensive he can evade Hulk.  I'll get back to this later, however the next thing we must consider is Goku's side of the offensive equation.

2.  _Can Goku hurt the Hulk?_  As I've said, I don't think he can.  But this is the major area of debate on this fight.  Goku's two biggest attacks both require signifigant "charge time" which I don't think Hulk's going to let him get.  And I think Hulk would shrug off lesser energy blasts without really noticing them.  I suppose he could do the spirit-bomb and teleport trick, but that will put him very close to the Hulk again, which means he loses outright if he doesn't kill the Hulk instantly.

This brings us to the last area of concern if we have a Goku that's to fast for the Hulk to hit, but can't hurt the Hulk with any of his attacks.

3.  _What happens in the long term fight?_  As long as the Hulk can stay mad, he can keep going at 100% (Actually his strength increases as the fight goes on, generally).  Last I heard Goku can only stay in his SSJ3 form for a few minutes (37 episodes), that means the ball is in his court for offense.  

If he tries to run away and play cat-and-mouse games, he'll run out of endurance and lose.  If he gets too close to the Hulk, he'll get torn into several little fleshy bits.  This gives him a narrow window to fight with.

Like I said, point 2 is the one that is really open to debate, however from what I've seen, I don't think Goku can win this one in just a few minutes.  In a one-on-one fight he'd have no friends to back him up (or wish him back from the dead when he screws up), and frankly Goku's track record for first encounters is pretty poor.


----------



## kapsi (Aug 18, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> You might want to read the rest of the thread.  Goku is way way slower than Silver Surfer and the Flash, yet the Hulk was able to catch SS's surfboard.


So comic makers are not reading what they wrote, what else is new.


----------



## Pinkaugust (Aug 18, 2005)

Gooba, do you actually believe that the hulk can get indefinately mad? I think that there is a limit to the Hulks anger, even if it hasn't been discovered yet. Goku can destroy a planet, it doesn't matter how much he can lift, and he can destroy opponents far stronger than the Hulk, with the help from the Genki-dama. Can Hulk survive in space? Does Hulk melt in lava? Can Hulk deflect a Genki-dama or Kamehameha? Does Hulk weight more than 40 tons? Can Hulk destroy the Universe With one blow?
What did hulk lift that weighted 150 billion tons?
I think Hulk can't fight against this enemy, and therefore will lose, even if Goku went close and fought, cuz Hulk cannot hit him, and even if so, Gokus forehead can take bulletfire and not break, same with the rest of the body, and he can deflect hulks attack before the strike fell..


----------



## Pinkaugust (Aug 18, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> You might want to read the rest of the thread.  Goku is way way slower than Silver Surfer and the Flash, yet the Hulk was able to catch SS's surfboard.


Is way faster than the speed of light (goku SSJ3) WAY WAY Slower than the speed of light? (silver surfer and the Flash)


----------



## korican04 (Aug 18, 2005)

Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Is way faster than the speed of light (goku SSJ3) WAY WAY Slower than the speed of light? (silver surfer and the Flash)


what?
Flash and SS are faster than the speed of light, we have even put scans up that show this on the boards.
When has goku shown to go around the world 7 times in 1 sec? if he was that fast then why teleport when on earth that would be slower cause he has to find the person he is teleporting to, that's why he Instant Transmisions cause he isn't that fast. He has to think of the person he is teleporting to, that right there is slower than the speed of light.
Speed of light >SS3 Goku in travel, that's why Goku uses his IT.

Also the rest of your questions, have been answered if you have read the rest of the thread.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 18, 2005)

Shinigami No1 said:
			
		

> I dont think regeneration should count i think thats weak...
> If they both had unlimited energy so that war hulk could regenerate forever, if Goku had the power to vapourise him he would also be able to do that forever. Thus it ends as stalemate but clearly war hulk has lost...
> Hears my arguments for this massive thread lol...


 
Stalemate? Goku doesn't have unlimited energy, we've seen him tire many times to the point of not being able to stand up, and it didn't take very long. Hulk has limitless endurance. As for regeneration not counting, thats a stupid argument, it can make all the difference in a fight so of course it counts.



			
				Shinigami No1 said:
			
		

> Goku is a skilled warrior and martial artist with speed far surpassing basically anyone anywhere in any anime or american comic (poss excl. the flash but thats a discussion for a different battledome). He is also the strongest in his anime where to even be considered a threat you have to basically be able to blow up a planet with a finger and regenerate in some way or another (for the DBZ crew it was the dragonballs...). Goku ALWAYS gets stronger during his fights ALWAYS. An if its not due to him gettin beat down its because something or someone important to him is in danger.


 
Ha, dude I've got news for you, there are a lot of people in American comics with speed surpassing Goku. He's not really that powerful compared to a lot of beings in american comics.

Secondly we've never seen him destroy a planet (Vegeta doing it with a finger was filler I believe). Now as for Goku getting stronger during a fight, big deal, its very limited from what I've seen, the Hulk gets stronger at a much faster rate.



			
				Shinigami No1 said:
			
		

> The war hulk is not a character i know much about but going by the hulk an the little i do know i would say war hulk is a creature using raw power with speed incomparable to Videl let alone Goku lol. I hear rumours that he can regenerate from mere molecules but how long does that take? an also im sure that if the molecule of your enemy was floating about goku would have the brains to zap it one more time. Also i heard in this discussion about war hulk being comparable to celestial beings with his sword an the CB are greater than Goku. What a load of trash its all relative. I think all marvel/DC characters or watever fight their respective gods/CBs at one point jus when there own storyline runs out an the writer needs something to do. I pretty sure spiderman faced a CB at one point and one but does anyone here think that spiderman could beat goku!?!


 
You just admitted you know nothing about War Hulk. Hulk can regenerate at insane speeds, so don't underestimate that. As for running out of storyline, are you actually comparing the story of the Hulk to DBZ? Hulk is far superior in the storyline department.

DBZ = super powerful being appears, heros train, big drawn out fight with many power ups, heros win, lather rinse repeat.

Hulk is a psychological story of a man searching for peace within himself, a man just trying to live his life with a raging beast within him always trying to get out.

And yes, War Hulk is on the celestial level, regardless of what you think about it, you can't deny that just because you don't like it. Suppose I think the saiyan ability to become stronger from recovery is trash, can I just ignore that then?



			
				Shinigami No1 said:
			
		

> War hulk would not be able to touch Goku an im not even talking about from a power perspective im talking about speed, if you cant catch it you cant hit it and im sure that Goku would figure out a way to put war hulk down or wear him out long enough jus to pile drive him with energy. And if war hulk ever threatened the earth or gokus family it would jus increase gokus power, i dont know of any attributes like that for War Hulk as far as im concerned hes jus big strong and angry lol.


 
Dude, Hulk can perceive speedsters, he can see things moving at super speeds like the silver surfer, his mind can follow them easily and in some cases he can keep up with them (like when he pulled the surfer off his board).

Goku would only succeed in pissing the Hulk off, thus making him stronger and stronger. As for wearing Hulk down, never going to happen, as long as he is mad he never tires. He'll just keep getting stronger, more durable and more able to regenerate as Goku tries to "wear him down".

And you just admitted again you know nothing about War Hulk. We've seen people (Juggernaut) who in terms of physical power are FAR beyond Goku fail to even scratch him.



			
				Shinigami No1 said:
			
		

> Anyway as you can see i prefer DBZ/GT, i always found those muscle fights of the hulk boring and slow but hey if all else fails we can jus look at the results of the poll cant we...


 
ROFL, how many fights have you seen? I'm willing to bet NONE. If all his fights were just "slow muscle fights" it wouldn't have been as popular as it has been for decades. Lets see if DBZ is still popular in 40 years.

DBZ fights are just power ups and stupid displays of power.



			
				Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Gooba, do you actually believe that the hulk can get indefinately mad? I think that there is a limit to the Hulks anger, even if it hasn't been discovered yet. Goku can destroy a planet, it doesn't matter how much he can lift, and he can destroy opponents far stronger than the Hulk, with the help from the Genki-dama. Can Hulk survive in space? Does Hulk melt in lava? Can Hulk deflect a Genki-dama or Kamehameha? Does Hulk weight more than 40 tons? Can Hulk destroy the Universe With one blow?
> What did hulk lift that weighted 150 billion tons?
> I think Hulk can't fight against this enemy, and therefore will lose, even if Goku went close and fought, cuz Hulk cannot hit him, and even if so, Gokus forehead can take bulletfire and not break, same with the rest of the body, and he can deflect hulks attack before the strike fell..


 
When will people read what I post, there is NO LIMIT to the Hulk's anger, this has been acknowledged by many people in the marvel universe including the beyonder who was powerful enough to occupy a universe alone and possessed near omniscience. He acknowleged the infinite potential of the Hulk's power.

As for Genki Dama, Hulk is not going to do what DBZ villains do and sit there going "oh shit, he's charging an attack, I better stand here and twitch my face". He'll throw buildings, cars and rocks if he can't reach Goku, and also the Genki Dama is slow, I don't care what anyone says, from what we've seen its a slow fucking attack. Hulk would just move out of the way.



			
				Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Is way faster than the speed of light (goku SSJ3) WAY WAY Slower than the speed of light? (silver surfer and the Flash)


 
Well this proves you have no idea what you're talking about. Goku has never shown ANYTHING to indicate he's anywhere near the speed of light without his teleporation.

Light takes 8 minutes to get from the sun to the earth, Silver Surfer can cross galaxies in an instant, sounds pretty fucking far beyond the speed of light to me.

The Flash can go so fast he goes backwards through time and phases into other dimensions, sounds pretty far beyond the speed of light to me.


----------



## kapsi (Aug 18, 2005)

Genki dama is not slow in manga, anime made it ridiculously slow.


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## Gooba (Aug 18, 2005)

> Gooba, do you actually believe that the hulk can get indefinately mad?


Yes, there is no reason not to, other than ignoring the comics.



> Can Hulk survive in space?


Yes



> Does Hulk melt in lava?


No



> Can Hulk deflect a Genki-dama or Kamehameha?


If by deflect, you mean take it in the face and not care, then yes. 



> Does Hulk weight more than 40 tons?


No, why does it matter?  Does Goku?



> Can Hulk destroy the Universe With one blow?


If there was some way to punch the whole universe, probably, but since he could only hit one planet at a time, no.  Can Goku?



> What did hulk lift that weighted 150 billion tons?


An entire mountain range, the scan of it is all over the Bdome.



> Is way faster than the speed of light (goku SSJ3) WAY WAY Slower than the speed of light? (silver surfer and the Flash)


Goku's fighting speed is sub-lightspeed, Flash and SS are so beyond that it isn't even funny.

All those answers are for regular Hulk.  War Hulk is like Regular Hulk, gone SSJ10.


----------



## kapsi (Aug 18, 2005)

I'd like the scan of Hulk taking genki dama in the face and not caring, kthx.


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## Kamendex (Aug 18, 2005)

Shinigami No1 said:
			
		

> I dont think regeneration should count i think thats weak...
> If they both had unlimited energy so that war hulk could regenerate forever, if Goku had the power to vapourise him he would also be able to do that forever. Thus it ends as stalemate but clearly war hulk has lost...
> Hears my arguments for this massive thread lol...
> 
> ...




I stopped reading your ridiculous post after the second paragraph.....Gokuu having speed far surpassing anyone in anime comic or anime? That is so stupid....Gokuu is slower than SSj Gotenks who went around the world a few times and took a short nap and ALL of that took him 29 minutes....Light Speed is around the world 7 times in a SECOND....Gokuu is nowhere NEAR light speed...Flash and SS rape him in light speed. Strongest in his own anime? Umm not even CLOSE.

SSj2 Vegitto
HUGE Gap
Super Buu 3
Gap
Super Buu 2
Big Gap
Chou Gohan
Medium/Small Gap
SSj3 Gotenks
Gap
Super Buu 1.5
Small Gap
Super Buu
Big Gap
SSj Gotenks
Medium Gap
FPSSj3 Gokuu
Gap
Fat Buu
Gap
Kid Buu, Evil Buu

Gokuu is nowhere NEAR strongest in his own anime.....

Don't decide a matchup on what you prefer....you use your head buddy. War Hulk caught SS's board....SS>>>>>>>>>>>>times 1 million>Gokuu in speed.


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## Gooba (Aug 18, 2005)

kapsi said:
			
		

> I'd like the scan of Hulk taking genki dama in the face and not caring, kthx.


There are either 2 possibilities, it hits War Hulk in the face, and doesn't damage him.  Judging by normal Hulk's toughness, and the fact that War Hulk is a celestial version of him, it is entirely possible.  The other possibility is that it blows his head completely off, and then he regrows it in a few seconds, and doesn't care.


----------



## Final Ultima (Aug 18, 2005)

Why, oh why must this topic continue to exist? -_-;


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## Gooba (Aug 18, 2005)

Final Ultima said:
			
		

> Why, oh why must this topic continue to exist? -_-;


DBZ fans who have not read the whole thread.


----------



## GTOnizukadude (Aug 18, 2005)

20 pages... of explaining why Goku gets the crap kicked out of him.  And Hulk's losing in the polls. wtf?


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## Bullet (Aug 18, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> Stalemate? Goku doesn't have unlimited energy, we've seen him tire many times to the point of not being able to stand up, and it didn't take very long. Hulk has limitless endurance. As for regeneration not counting, thats a stupid argument, it can make all the difference in a fight so of course it counts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nicely done man!


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## Green Lantern (Aug 18, 2005)

Man oh man I wish I did not create this thread 
(I honestly did not know that Goku would be raped so badly )


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## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 18, 2005)

Intresting i remeber goku saying that kid buu is stronger and faster than he was in his last form ( the form im talking about is super buu the one with evil and good mixed)

plus all those guys u listed OVER HALF are with fusion shit.


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## tdultima (Aug 18, 2005)

heres hulk getting stripped down by advanced bugs

it takes him 18 minutes to fully regenerate and he is still in one piece

not invincible is he?

show me evidence that hulk can instantly regenerate from disintegration

freeza can destroy planets and cell can destroy the solar system

so why cant goku disintegrate him?

since when has hulk ever been hit point blank by a planet busting energy beam?

why cant goku shoot him into the sun?

why cant goku shoot the ENTIRE PLANET into the sun?


----------



## Dark Shadowx (Aug 18, 2005)

Yeah that is powerful.

Quoting someone's post, Goku might be fast enough to evade the Hulk, but still he has not much of a chance. Of course he could attempt to do a Kamehameha in the air, but the Earth would be destroyed, and Hulk can jump extremely high.

But then, what would happen if Goku simply punched Hulk fast enough, then teleported somewhere else and punched him again? Like a speed attack..


----------



## Gooba (Aug 18, 2005)

> But then, what would happen if Goku simply punched Hulk fast enough, then teleported somewhere else and punched him again? Like a speed attack..


Eventually grab Goku and squish him into a pulp.  He can react with superspeed.


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## Othni (Aug 19, 2005)

Hulks reflexes are althletic level. If spiderman can avoid getting hit, then I'm sure goku can as well.


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## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

Othni said:
			
		

> Hulks reflexes are althletic level. If spiderman can avoid getting hit, then I'm sure goku can as well.


No they are not, he grabbed the Silver Surfer off his surfboard, and he is millions(billions) of times faster than Goku.


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 19, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> Intresting i remeber goku saying that kid buu is stronger and faster than he was in his last form ( the form im talking about is super buu the one with evil and good mixed)
> 
> plus all those guys u listed OVER HALF are with fusion shit.



Dude read the manga....Gokuu saying that was filler.....and it doesnt matter if they are fusions...they are STRONGER than Gokuu....that guy said Gokuu was the strongest in his own anime.


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## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> Eventually grab Goku and squish him into a pulp.  He can react with superspeed.



and i can easily say goku teleports right before hulk grabs him

theres no way goku can beat hulk in close combat

im talking about planet busting disintegration


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 19, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> Dude read the manga....Gokuu saying that was filler.....and it doesnt matter if they are fusions...they are STRONGER than Gokuu....that guy said Gokuu was the strongest in his own anime.



yea i am reading the manga even the shonen jump version as well..

Doesnt matter? well 2 ppl it takes to be stronger than 1 thats my point. Only person by himself that was acculy stronger than goku was gohon but we dont know if thats the case after the 10 year training goku did after the buu saga when gohon was on his ass.

Goku is the STrongest Super Sayien in his own world No one by them selves can go Super Sayein 3. So in super sayien termms Goku is stronger.

 and about the vegeta thing when i said about his finger correct u are but his galant gun was strong enough to destroy the planent and that is in the sayein saga.  plus since it takes 18 mins for the hulk to regenerate from bugs! LOL it took buu like split seconds to reform after he got blown up by a planent.  oo and just to quote the maker of this thread.



			
				radishbak said:
			
		

> Firstly I need to make a big point-
> This match is *WAR HULK*
> 
> Not Maestro Hulk!!
> ...



so ppl dont bring other stuff into this fight.

So yea i can see one of gokus strong kamehamahas blowing the hulk away so much that he cannot regenerate. and ssj3 can defintly do that. hell look at what ssj2 gohon did to cell..


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> heres hulk getting stripped down by advanced bugs
> 
> it takes him 18 minutes to fully regenerate and he is still in one piece


 
Two things wrong with that, first off "The End" was a what if, it can hardly be considered Canon.

Secondly, he bugs attacked BANNER whose body turned into the Hulk to avoid dying.  The transformation between Banner and the Hulk is variable, it can take anywhere from a few seconds to many minutes.  Its entirely possible with 200 years of radiation that the time frame changed and that entire 18 minutes was a combination of Banner becoming the hulk and a watered down healing factor due to the fact the Hulk hadn't fully emerged.

The Hulk has regenerated his entire body in seconds, what sense would it make for his fully powered healing factor to take so long for a minor injury?



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> not invincible is he?


 
Who said he was "invincible"?  I'm saying Goku can't kill him, nothing Goku has shown can kill the Hulk or even hurt him in the long run.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> show me evidence that hulk can instantly regenerate from disintegration


 
Show me evidence of Goku disintegrating ANYTHING by his OWN POWER...oh wait... he never did, gee I guess he can't.

Just because we didn't see it happen doesn't mean it can't be reasoned out, the Hulk has regenerated his entire body in seconds and recovered from being disintegrated.  Now we're talking about that power on a celestial level, I see no reason he couldn't.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> freeza can destroy planets and cell can destroy the solar system


 
Bullshit, I don't think Cell knew what he was talking about.  The earth averages a width of 8,000 miles, so lets say thats the size of a planet being destroyed.  The power to destroy a planet would destroy something 8,000 miles wide.

The sun alone is 800,000 miles across, meaning just to get to the sun without anything else would require a power 100 times greater than that required to destroy a planet.

The distance from the earth to the sun is roughly 93,000,000 miles, meaning just to fill the distance between the earth and the sun with planet destroying energy (not including the earth and sun itself) would require a power roughly 11,500 times greater than that required to destroy a planet.

Now, thats just the earth from the sun in a straight line, you would be required to fill the entire area around the sun on all sides to this distance with planet destroying force.

Pluto is about 3,600,000,000 miles from the sun, try to wrap your mind around the power it would take to fill that space with planet destroying energy.

Now Vegeta needed a power of roughly 40,000 to attempt to destroy the earth (he probably would have succeeded).  Now 40,000 * 3.6 billion = 144,000,000,000,000 to just fill that space.

The combined width of the sun and pluto is around 860,000 miles, making the total distance (one side straight line) about 3,600,860,000, which would require a power level of 144,034,400,000,000 to fill.  Now thats just one side of the solar system in a straight line, imagine filling the whole thing to destroy it.

If you think cell had that kind of power you're insane.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> so why cant goku disintegrate him?


 
Because Hulk's durability and healing factor would keep him together longer than Goku could maintain a stream of energy.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> since when has hulk ever been hit point blank by a planet busting energy beam?


 
Ummm..gladiator, did you not see the example above?



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> why cant goku shoot him into the sun?


 
*sigh*, I'll say it again, its been tried.  A lot of people have tried to send the Hulk into space, it never ends well for them.

Goku is dealing with an almost cosmic force.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> why cant goku shoot the ENTIRE PLANET into the sun?


 
When has he EVER moved ANYTHING even REMOTELY the size of the earth?


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

> it takes 18 mins for the hulk to regenerate from bugs!


Normal Hulk, as you said in your post, this is War Hulk,  who is ridiculously better than that one.  Also, Regular Hulk regenerated from nothing but bones in about 10 seconds.

^


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 19, 2005)

Well lets bring back when vegeta was having flashbacks with his dad and his crew his dad destroyed a couple of plants with his power and that was WAYY back....


plus goku did desinigrate  alot of stuff wayy back in freaking dragonball... Plus the fact still remains Gohon COMPLEATLY desinigrated cell and Vegeta said that goku was stronger than gohon when goku went ssj2 .. so guess what he can surely unleash enough power to disengrate the hulk.



			
				Gooba said:
			
		

> Normal Hulk, as you said in your post, this is War Hulk,  who is ridiculously better than that one.  Also, Regular Hulk regenerated from nothing but bones in about 10 seconds.
> 
> ^




bones? umm cell came back from just 1 cell in matter of seconds soo yea that beatrs ur war hulk regeneration.

Buu regenerated back from a PLANET EXPLOSION in a matter of seconds   .... soo yea they where both compleatly gone skeletons encluded just that it was not enough power to take them out.

plus tsu u dont know whats cell is talking about when he said that? well its in the manga so u got to deal with it.


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

> bones? umm cell came back from just 1 cell in matter of seconds soo yea that beatrs ur war hulk regeneration.


No, that beats my normal Hulk regeneration, War Hulk is celestially better than that.  We have never seen the actual rate he would heal, as he has never even been scratched.



> plus tsu u dont know whats cell is talking about when he said that? well its in the manga so u got to deal with it.


He said it in the manga, but that doesn't mean it is the truth.  People can lie in mangas, they do it all the time.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 19, 2005)

^  and never blown up from a planet either..   war hulk did nto regenerate from atoms i quoted the thread maker saying that.. soo war hulks regenration is not as good as cells or buus .. Until i see war hulk get blown up from a planet and come back in mer seconds then i will change my mind. but he did not Cell did and Buu did .


----------



## Othni (Aug 19, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> No they are not, he grabbed the Silver Surfer off his surfboard, and he is millions(billions) of times faster than Goku.



Wasn't that the Maestro? 0.^ And also, silver surfer was running away and he was catching up to him and then caught it, no? I'm talking about reflexes as in someone is zooming around you and you have to actually spin around and what not. that type of reflex


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

> war hulk did nto regenerate from atoms i quoted the thread maker saying that.. soo war hulks regenration is not as good as cells or buus .. Until i see war hulk get blown up from a planet and come back in mer seconds then i will change my mind. but he did not Cell did and Buu did .


He only didn't because blasts like those didn't hurt him.  I never saw a gun shoot through a piece of paper, but that doesn't mean it can't.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 19, 2005)

^ ooo boy then  i can come up with alot of stuff for  goku if we go like that.


----------



## Bullet (Aug 19, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ ooo boy then  i can come up with alot of stuff for  goku if we go like that.



SSJ3/4 Goku will lose pretty easy. Hes not close to even being physically a match for the Hulk at all. One punch from the Hulk will put ssj3/4 Goku in a coma. Goku isn't strong enough to even fase Hulk with physical attacks, so he can speedbiltz all he wants until Hulk hits him one time. And his ssj3/4 transformation takes up way to much energy that the fight won't last very long at all. 

Gokus kamehameha wave takes to long too, Hulk isn't going to stand there and let him charge up the attack; it wouldn't matter anyways, as Hulk has taken a blast from Gladiator whos Eye beam is hotter than stars (sun). I don't think Goku will destroy the planet just to kill the Hulk anyways, and I'm sure Hulk will survive the blast also. And like I said, planet destroying attacks isn't all that immpressive, as the planet has a life force, damage the planet, and it'll automatically destroy itself. Plus there's no way to tell how hard it is to blow up a planet since you have nothing to compare it to. For all we know that blast from Vector is more powerful than the DBZ/GT characters planet busting blast. If you take away there planet destroying blasts, they're really not all that impressive.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 19, 2005)

^ ummm well goku can be in the air start up the kamehamaha hulk trys and throw something at him he uses instant transmission then baam war hulk gets blasted..
plus about hotter than the sun.. in DBZ their beam abilities is not based on heat just raw power.

but u see all dbz was , fast melee action , blazing speed and super strong blast attacks.. if i took away the hulks ability to lift an island he would not really be that impressive either.


the thing is goku is a fighting genious where the hulk is just some big green guy with a bad temper ..

plus saying i dont think goku would blow up the planent blah blah.. if it was just him and the hulk on the planet and no oneelse i am sure he would.  but like the thread creator stated no planetary destruction in this battle.


----------



## konflikti (Aug 19, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ^ ummm well goku can be in the air start up the kamehamaha hulk trys and throw something at him he uses instant transmission then baam war hulk gets blasted..
> plus about hotter than the sun.. in DBZ their beam abilities is not based on heat just raw power.
> 
> but u see all dbz was , fast melee action , blazing speed and super strong blast attacks.. if i took away the hulks ability to lift an island he would not really be that impressive either.
> ...


You fail to realize that Goku can't survive in the space, unlike Hulk. Destruction of planet would be suicide, and IT away would be running away and therefore loss.

Btw, if you really wanna count their beam attacks on being just raw power, then Hulk has got nothing to worry about. Because no one in DBZ comes even close to Hulk's raw power. It's enough to break rules of physics. He'll probably hit the kamehameha right back at Goku's face if he feels like it.

The thing is this: Goku is a fighting genious matched against gamma-engine of unlimited physical power, regeneration and stamina.You can be all the martial arts genious you want but it ain't gonna help you much if you get ran over a truck. "Hulk smash puny Saiyan!"


----------



## korican04 (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> heres hulk getting stripped down by advanced bugs
> 
> it takes him 18 minutes to fully regenerate and he is still in one piece
> 
> ...


 That was from the End and I remember reading that, for one he was attacked as banner, and then he turned to the the hulk, that's why it took him a while to regenerate, that was also off the timeline of marvel. Because of being between transformation his healing factor was not at full power, presumably (i don't quite remember all the details).

War Hulk the one we are talkig about, from the stuff i have read wouldn't get hurt so easily with his "celestial" enhancement or whatever. 
People have tried to send the regular hulk into space, cause they couldn't beat him then they go their asses handed to them.

arg: I'm way late, tsykuomi already replied.


----------



## Othni (Aug 19, 2005)

Cosmic spiderman sent hulk into out space with one punch.  He didn't fail.  Yeah yeah, he was a cosmic, but I'm just saying that the whole No one has sent him into out space' thing is wrong.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

> Show me evidence of Goku disintegrating ANYTHING by his OWN POWER...oh wait... he never did, gee I guess he can't.
> 
> Just because we didn't see it happen doesn't mean it can't be reasoned out, the Hulk has regenerated his entire body in seconds and recovered from being disintegrated. Now we're talking about that power on a celestial level, I see no reason he couldn't.



not true it took 10 years for the maestro to recover from disintegration and with help from hulk

and since that is the only example ill go by that



> Bullshit, I don't think Cell knew what he was talking about. The earth averages a width of 8,000 miles, so lets say thats the size of a planet being destroyed. The power to destroy a planet would destroy something 8,000 miles wide.
> 
> The sun alone is 800,000 miles across, meaning just to get to the sun without anything else would require a power 100 times greater than that required to destroy a planet.
> 
> ...



dont try to use science to explain comic books

stuff in marvel can be equally insane

cell said he could destroy the solar system right before gohan killed him so naturally the author made him say that to show gohan's power



> Ummm..gladiator, did you not see the example above?



gladiator's eyebeam isn't a planet destroying energy beam

its a small beam that cut a hole in the hulk's chest





> *sigh*, I'll say it again, its been tried. A lot of people have tried to send the Hulk into space, it never ends well for them.



thats your only excuse

those people tried and failed because a plot device protects hulk



> When has he EVER moved ANYTHING even REMOTELY the size of the earth?



blow up the earth in the direction of the sun


----------



## Heartgobbler (Aug 19, 2005)

I'd say Goku would win but he would have to use his brain. He couldn't damage Hulk fast enough to overcome his regeneration (except perhaps for cutting him with a kienzan ) but he could use his speed/ teleportation to get rid of him (say, leaving him in open space. The greatest strenght won't help you if you have nothing to interact with) 

Taking that he can absorb radiation, throwing Hulk into the Sun might actually be a bad idea.


----------



## Shiron (Aug 19, 2005)

Heartgobbler said:
			
		

> but he could use his speed/ teleportation to get rid of him (say, leaving him in open space. The greatest strenght won't help you if you have nothing to interact with)


That won't work though. First of all Goku can't survive in space, but the War Hulk can. Secondly, Goku can only teleport where there's a ki signature to lock onto; nowhere else. - MnK


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 19, 2005)

Dude....SSj3_Goku.....stoping using your BS Dragonball info to confuse people...Cell didnt come back with one cell remaining in a SECOND....it took him a awhile....heck it took him long enough to come back from HALF of his body being destroyed that almost everyone thought he was DEAD....

BTW....stop using the destroying solar system crap...it has as much truth to it as Vegeta saying he was the strongest in the universe in the Saiya-jin saga....which was obviously not true.

And did you see how long it took for Cell to come up with enough energy for that kamehameha....use your head...the Hulk is not gonna stand there and let him charge....


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

look here some gun made by forge can kill the hulk (it damaged him badly)

the gamma bomb killed the maestro

so why not a big planet busting beam?





Device name:  Forge?s Anti-Hulk Gun

Designed and built by:  Forge

Used by:  The Maestro

Capabilities:  Energy weapon designed expressly for the purpose of killing the Hulk.

Limitations:  It takes several shots for it to kill the Hulk.

Used against the Hulk in:  Future Imperfect #2 (Merged Hulk)

Intended outcomes:  Kill the Hulk.

Actual outcome(s):  The gun was very effective in wounding the Hulk. In one powerful shot he was bleeding. There was no chance for the Maestro to use the weapon for a second time, thus never demonstrating whether it really could kill the Hulk.

Effectiveness rating:  Good

Explanation for rating:  It severely wounded the Hulk in one shot, as it was expected to do.

First appearance:  (Actually) Future Imperfect #2, (chronologically) Incredible Hulk v2 #455


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 19, 2005)

A gun SPECIFICALLY made to kill the Hulk....wow...so if let's say Dr. Gero made a potion that was specifically made to kill Gokuu....and it did....does that mean Gokuu is so weak that a mere potion can kill him? Or would you use your head and say he was killed by a potion SPECIFICALLY made to kill him....?


----------



## Heartgobbler (Aug 19, 2005)

> That won't work though. First of all Goku can't survive in space, but the War Hulk can. Secondly, Goku can only teleport where there's a ki signature to lock onto; nowhere else. - MnK



Goku cannot survive without air ,but he can hold his breath for long enough (which he demonstrated while repairing the ship during his travel to Namek)

Could you explain further this stuff about ki signature?

one more thing: Since Hulk regenerates to the level of near immortality. If you cut off his head, does he regenerate from the head or from the torso? (or will there be two of them? )


----------



## Shiron (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> look here some gun made by forge can kill the hulk (it damaged him badly)
> 
> the gamma bomb killed the maestro
> 
> ...


So? That's a special kind of gun and a special kind of radiation. Goku has access to neither. Even if the fight is taking place in the Hulk's world, Goku wouln't know that those would work on him and if Goku did figure it out the Hulk certainly wouldn't let Goku get access to those weapons. - MnK 

EDIT: A ki attack wouldn't work because it doesn't contain gamma radiation and as said before, the Hulk wouldn't just sit there for 5 minutes and let Goku charge a Kamehameha Wave stong enough to destroy him, which Goku couldn't make anyways. 

EDIT 2: Heartgobbler: Goku can only teleport to where there is an actual living being is what that means.


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 19, 2005)

Heartgobbler said:
			
		

> Goku cannot survive without air ,but he can hold his breath for long enough (which he demonstrated while repairing the ship during his travel to Namek)
> 
> Could you explain further this stuff about ki signature?



That was filler my friend...


----------



## Heartgobbler (Aug 19, 2005)

Still, is superman can fly in space by holding his breath, so should Goku.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

> A ki attack wouldn't work because it doesn't contain gamma radiation and as said before, the Hulk wouldn't just sit there for 5 minutes and let Goku charge a Kamehameha Wave stong enough to destroy him, which Goku couldn't make anyways.



that small eyebeam from gladiator doesnt have gamma radiation either, how come it damaged the hulk?

as for hulk wouldnt let goku charge up a beam...goku can teleport while charging

buu shot goku while he was charging the genki dama and goku teleported to avoid the attack, came back, and continued charging

and what evidence is there that hulk can take a planet destroying energy beam?

any examples?


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

> any examples?


War took Gladiators and was only damaged, and that version is ridiculously weaker than the one in this fight.



> Still, is superman can fly in space by holding his breath, so should Goku.


If the Human Torch can ignite himself at will, should Goku be able to?


----------



## Shiron (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> that small eyebeam from gladiator doesnt have gamma radiation either, how come it damaged the hulk?
> 
> as for hulk wouldnt let goku charge up a beam...goku can teleport while charging
> 
> ...


What I meant by that was that the Hulk would just regenerate from the attack after it hit him, causing no permanent damage to him. I didn't mean that it would have no effect at all. 

I personally, can't give you any examples. However, just comletely read this thread and any others about the Hulk (that's how I know what I currently know about the Hulk, since I don't read American comics) for examples of his strength/durabillity/regeneration feats. - MnK


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

well i can give an example

it took the maestro 10 years to regenerate disintegration from the gamma bomb and thats with hulk giving him gamma radiation

that means he needs help

listen going down for 10 years = loss in my book


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> well i can give an example
> 
> it took the maestro 10 years to regenerate disintegration from the gamma bomb and thats with hulk giving him gamma radiation
> 
> ...


That is special because it is his weakness.  It is like saying hitting Superman with a normal rock will kill him, because doing it with Kryptonite will.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

> War took Gladiators and was only damaged, and that version is ridiculously weaker than the one in this fight.



i said a planet destroying energy beam

did hulk ever get hit point blank by a HUGE energy beam capable of destroying a planet?

when did gladiator destroy a planet with that tiny little eyebeam?


----------



## acritarch (Aug 19, 2005)

heartgobbler said:
			
		

> Still, is superman can fly in space by holding his breath, so should Goku.



OMFG, are you shitting me? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Do you know what happens to people in space? The vacuum starts sucking stuff out of the orifaces in the body... so first, your eyes pop out of your head and your eye sockets and ear drums will start bleeding pretty badly. That's not to mention you'd probably die pretty fast considering the temperature of space is about a mere ~4 Kelvin (That's -269 Celsius). 

Anyway, no one can survive in space except people with super generation (Cell, Buu, Hulk, etc.), special powers (Green Lantern, superman, etc.) or celestial/cosmic power (Silver Surfer, etc.).



> buu shot goku while he was charging the genki dama and goku teleported to avoid the attack, came back, and continued charging



Filler. Heh. Everytime I see your posts there is at least one comment with filler in it. Go read the manga.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> well i can give an example
> 
> it took the maestro 10 years to regenerate disintegration from the gamma bomb and thats with hulk giving him gamma radiation
> 
> ...



The fact that he can come back from total disintegration (which no one in DBZ has done because they have to have at least pieces of themselves or a cell), makes his regenerative abilities better than Cell's and Buu's (which they already are anyway). Stop bring this up because it is only hurting your case.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> i said a planet destroying energy beam
> 
> did hulk ever get hit point blank by a HUGE energy beam capable of destroying a planet?
> 
> when did gladiator destroy a planet with that tiny little eyebeam?



Okay, seriously. The only instances it has been shown in the manga where people blow up planets are Frieza's destruction of Namek (Volume 27, Chapt 7, Page 9) and Buu's destruction of earth (Volume 42, Chapt 6, Page 9). Those "planet destroying beams" were actually balls of energy much like the Genki Dama and they weren't that big at all. The radius of Frieza's was the largest probably about ~10 meters across at most and Buu's ball of energy was just bigger than his body. 

The fact that Gladiators "tiny eye beam" can destroy planets and stars makes it far stronger than Frieza's or Buu's planet destroying balls of energy.

Use the edit button, it is your friend -Gooba


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 19, 2005)

Actually...Gokuu teleporting to dodge Kid Buu's BLAST was not filler.....although...how is he gonna stand there and keep teleporting if Hulk comes and starts punching him? His Instaneous Movement is limited to his energy....


----------



## acritarch (Aug 19, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> Actually...Gokuu teleporting to dodge Kid Buu's BLAST was not filler.....although...how is he gonna stand there and keep teleporting if Hulk comes and starts punching him? His Instaneous Movement is limited to his energy....



Okay, Volume 42, Chap 14, Pic 2... His body blurs on the bottom middle panel to dodge Buu's blast... but it CAN'T be instant transmission (IT) because there is no one around him to lock his Ki onto AND he stays in virtually the same place he was up in the air before Buu fired the blast. Additionally, he doesn't have the ability to touch his forehead and focus which we've seen he must do each and every time he wants to IT. He HAS to have just sidestepped it quickly.

Gooba, Thanks for merging my posts. Using the quick reply was easier than using the edit button.


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## Bullet (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> i said a planet destroying energy beam
> 
> did hulk ever get hit point blank by a HUGE energy beam capable of destroying a planet?
> 
> when did gladiator destroy a planet with that tiny little eyebeam?



Gladiator's Eyebeam is hotter than stars (it's hotter than the sun itself, which at the core temperature can reach 22.5 million degrees). None of the DBZ/GT characters attacks come close to that.

Here's a scan that stats that Gladiators Heat Vision is hotter than a star.

Link removed

Here's Gladiator destroying stars with his bare hands and eye beam with no problem.

Link removed

Link removed

Here's Hulk taking a planet destroying blast from Vector.

Link removed

Here's Vector putting more power into his planet destroying attack.

Link removed

Link removed

Here he is healing in a sec after the attack.

Link removed

And here he is taking a star destroying blast from Gladiator.

Link removed

Stars are far bigger than Earth, but Hulk just walk right through Gladiator blast. Goku dies.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

> The fact that he can come back from total disintegration (which no one in DBZ has done because they have to have at least pieces of themselves or a cell), makes his regenerative abilities better than Cell's and Buu's (which they already are anyway). Stop bring this up because it is only hurting your case.



10 years = loss

ok ill ask you to show me an example when hulk has come back from a cell

since cell and buu really suck show me hulk coming back from a cell



> Okay, seriously. The only instances it has been shown in the manga where people blow up planets are Frieza's destruction of Namek (Volume 27, Chapt 7, Page 9) and Buu's destruction of earth (Volume 42, Chapt 6, Page 9). Those "planet destroying beams" were actually balls of energy much like the Genki Dama and they weren't that big at all. The radius of Frieza's was the largest probably about ~10 meters across at most and Buu's ball of energy was just bigger than his body.
> 
> The fact that Gladiators "tiny eye beam" can destroy planets and stars makes it far stronger than Frieza's or Buu's planet destroying balls of energy.



i have yet to see any example of the gladiator destroying a star with his eyebeams

all i see are pics of him punching a moon or planet which is no big deal since freeza can already destroy planets



> Okay, Volume 42, Chap 14, Pic 2... His body blurs on the bottom middle panel to dodge Buu's blast... but it CAN'T be instant transmission (IT) because there is no one around him to lock his Ki onto AND he stays in virtually the same place he was up in the air before Buu fired the blast. Additionally, he doesn't have the ability to touch his forehead and focus which we've seen he must do each and every time he wants to IT. He HAS to have just sidestepped it quickly.



so i was right

but you still deny it 

what else can i say?

bullet:



> Here's Gladiator destroying stars with his bare hands and eye beam with no problem.



like i keep saying thats not a star(sun) its either a planet or a moon

and his eyebeam didnt break it

he broke it with punches



> Here's Hulk taking a planet destroying blast from Vector.



when has vector been shown to destroy planets?

he has the power to repel matter and hulk pushed against it

Guys, cut out all the DPs, seriously.  Next one gets a 1 day "vacation" from here.  Sorry, but it has gotten out of hand.  -Gooba


----------



## acritarch (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> braindx said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ROFL. I'll spell this out for you because it is pretty simple logic.

1. Hulk came back from total disintegration.
2. No character in DBZ can come back from total disintegration.
3. Therefore, Hulk's regeneration ability is superior.

Why would I show an example when Hulk comes back from a cell when Hulk coming back from atoms is even MORE impressive even if it takes longer??? This clearly shows that Hulk's regenerative abilities are superior overall (especially when factoring in his anger).




			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> braindx said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ROFL? That manga page proves you're WRONG. WRONG!!!!!! He doesn't use IT against Buu with the Genki Dama like YOU SAID!

Don't flame again, or you get a day break.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

> ROFL. I'll spell this out for you because it is pretty simple logic.
> 
> 1. Hulk came back from total disintegration.
> 2. No character in DBZ can come back from total disintegration.
> ...



cell and buu can INSTANTLY come back from a cell

show me the hulk doing the same

staying disintegrated for 10 years and needing HELP to recover isnt exactly a win (i thought this battle was one on one)

like i said if winning means hulk lives longer than hulk wins


----------



## Shiron (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> cell and buu can INSTANTLY come back from a cell
> 
> show me the hulk doing the same
> 
> ...


I remeber both Cell and Buu regennerating, but not instantly. Can you show me evidence of them doing such a thing? - MnK


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

Meijin no Kori said:
			
		

> I remeber both Cell and Buu regennerating, but not instantly. Can you show me evidence of them doing such a thing? - MnK



a couple examples i can remember:

1. cell blew himself up when he puffed up like a balloon and came right back to rejoin the battle

2. vegeta sacrificed his life to disintegrate fat buu...buu came right back

3. buu blew himself up after destroying the earth then he regenerated and teleported to fight goku and vegeta (last battle)


----------



## Shiron (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> a couple examples i can remember:
> 
> 1. cell blew himself up when he puffed up like a balloon and came right back to rejoin the battle
> 
> ...


Yes, all of those were regenerations, but none of them were instant, like you claim them to be.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

Meijin no Kori said:
			
		

> Yes, all of those were regenerations, but none of them were instant, like you claim them to be.



fast enough to rejoin the battle then

but 10 years? come on now...


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

> but 10 years? come on now...


10 years from being reduced to nothing, it took Cell and Buu, oh wait, they never came back from that.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> 10 years from being reduced to nothing, it took Cell and Buu, oh wait, they never came back from that.



10 years with help

i thought this battle was one on one?


----------



## Shiron (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> 10 years with help
> 
> i thought this battle was one on one?


So? If he didn't have help, it probably would have just taken him more time to fully regenerate. And Hulk would still be better than Cell and Buu, because, all though it took him a long amount of time, he still regenerated from less material than Buu and cell ever did. - MnK


----------



## acritarch (Aug 19, 2005)

Cell's regeneration isn't instant. It takes him approximately 5 manga pages to come back from blowing himself up (Vol 35, Ch5, Pg1-6) and the various characters carried out conversation(s) in that amount of time. Buu's regeneration is not instant either; it is basically a coagulation of his parts which take as long as it takes to get himself back together. Buu's first regen when he was killed by Vegita took 10 manga pages (Vol 39, Ch9, Pg1-10) and when he blew himself up with the earth took 8 pages (Vol42, Ch6-7, Pg12-13&1-6). Both seem to take minutes to come back from being blow apart. Hulk's regeneration is obviously superior as I've stated already since he can come back from basically nothing. But extrapolating from the various states of him being injured in the various comic pictures on the forum and in this thread, it should take a few minutes for him to regenerate all the way. Seeing as how he was reduced to a skeleton and came back from that in about 1-2 pages... and most of the weight of the body is not in the skeletal frame (approximately 18% of the body's weight). IF anything, they have the same regnerative abilities WHEN reduced to cells; however, Hulk has the trump card in that his increasing anger makes him regenerate faster.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

theres no example of how long it will take if the hulk was reduced to cells

i dont think there is even an example of decapitation

the one example of massive damage is the maestro being hit by a gamma bomb and it took 10 years and help to come back

its anyones guess

if you believe goku can destroy the hulk to the point of the gamma bomb with a very big energy beam or genki dama then goku wins

if you believe hulk regenerates from everything goku throws at him then the hulk wins and goku needs to teleport away before he gets killed

thats it i guess


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

> the one example of massive damage is the maestro being hit by a gamma bomb and it took 10 years and help to come back


No, there are others.  Like him coming back in 5 seconds from being a skeleton.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

Gooba said:
			
		

> No, there are others.  Like him coming back in 5 seconds from being a skeleton.



thats the fight with vector

he wasnt exactly a skeleton but a lot of his flesh and skin was ripped off

but its not disintegration


----------



## acritarch (Aug 19, 2005)

Considering that a skeleton is about ~18% of the body's weight, he technically should be able to regenerate his whole body in ~25 seconds from being reduced to cells which would be faster than Buu's and Cell's regenerations in the manga where it took them minutes.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

not a skeleton

he still has muscle, his brain is intact, guts still in place ect.


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

That was after he had healed a bunch from the page before.
 = basicly a skeleton


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

theres still only one example of disintegration

if goku can duplicate the damage from the gamma bomb then he can win

if hulk regens from everything goku throws at him then goku is forced to leave or die

goku should still be the one on the offensive with his speed, IT, and long ranged attacks


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 19, 2005)

Holy crap, this is still ongoing?



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> theres still only one example of disintegration


 
I'm sorry there aren't multiple instances of the one weapon capable of disintegrating him.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> if goku can duplicate the damage from the gamma bomb then he can win


 
And how exactly is he going to do that?  Gamma radiation isn't something you can produce with a normal body.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> if hulk regens from everything goku throws at him then goku is forced to leave or die


 
Thats exactly what will happen, Hulk will just keep regenerating.  Notice gladiators beams were on him for a long time a point blank (the same beams that can destroy planets) and the small hole they made is quickly gone, you can't even tell it was there.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> goku should still be the one on the offensive with his speed, IT, and long ranged attacks


 
Lets say hypothetically thats true, Goku doesn't have limitless Stamina, in fact his stamina hasn't really been shown to be too impressive and he's going up against someone who has limitless stamina and a healing factor which makes him immortal.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

> I'm sorry there aren't multiple instances of the one weapon capable of disintegrating him.



thats not what i mean

hulk has been hurt by non gamma related attacks before

what about disintegration from non gamma related attacks?

whether goku is strong enough to do it is up to you...i believe goku has a chance



> Notice gladiators beams were on him for a long time a point blank (the same beams that can destroy planets)



i continue to disagree on this

gladiator punched a planet

he didnt use eyebeams to blow up a planet

what im trying to say is dbz beams > gladiator beam


----------



## Gooba (Aug 19, 2005)

This whole thing is unfair.  You are debating normal Hulk vs Goku.  I still think Hulk wins, but that is not the thread.

This is Goku vs War Hulk.  If you are going to use normal Hulk then you need to use Goku from DB, not DBZ.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> thats not what i mean
> 
> hulk has been hurt by non gamma related attacks before
> 
> what about disintegration from non gamma related attacks?


You see, that's the whole point the others are trying to make.  There hasn't been an attack from a non-gamma related attack that is capable of disintegrating the Hulk.

The worst I've personally seen is the big hole in his chest from Gladiator, but I'm not the expert here.

Goku's got an uphill battle because he's got a ~6 minute time limit if I understand things correctly.

Taking a step back I'll try a different tactic.  I propose that Goku would lose because he's far to into "testing" opponents.  I think rather than going SSJ3 and bombing the Hulk from near-orbit, he'd end up charging in in his "normal" form to do a flurry of punches to see how the Hulk reacts, and the Hulk rather than doing a flurry of punches back like a normal DBZ opponent would just grab him and rip him apart...

Though that is rather anticlimactic


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> thats not what i mean
> 
> hulk has been hurt by non gamma related attacks before
> 
> ...


 
Dude, what do you know about the Hulk storyline?  He's taken blows from people capable of shattering planets and taken it, he's survived the apocalypse, he's immune to all forms of toxin and disease.  Not only that, but his regenerative factor is immediate (unlike Cell's and Buu's which have a pause before they start which is why they were able to be destroyed).

The Gamma bomb is the only thing that has ever been able to hurt him to that extent and thats only because its like dropping a kryptonite powered atomic weapon on superman.  And he still came back from that.

I've yet to see Goku actually destroy a planet.  Show me an example of him doing this since you seem so interested in specific examples and not reasoning things out from other events.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> i continue to disagree on this
> 
> gladiator punched a planet
> 
> ...


 
Fine, lets say his eye beams can't do it.  He still showed the physical strength to destroy a planet like it was nothing, yet on no occaision has Gladiator managed to beat the Hulk, this shows the Hulk can withstand planet destroying force.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 19, 2005)

> Dude, what do you know about the Hulk storyline? He's taken blows from people capable of shattering planets and taken it, he's survived the apocalypse, he's immune to all forms of toxin and disease. Not only that, but his regenerative factor is immediate (unlike Cell's and Buu's which have a pause before they start which is why they were able to be destroyed).
> 
> The Gamma bomb is the only thing that has ever been able to hurt him to that extent and thats only because its like dropping a kryptonite powered atomic weapon on superman. And he still came back from that.
> 
> I've yet to see Goku actually destroy a planet. Show me an example of him doing this since you seem so interested in specific examples and not reasoning things out from other events.



blows that can destroy a planet compared to cell who can destroy the solar system

you equally reject my claims even when i posted the page of cell saying that

even better is that ssj3 > ssj2 > cell

you will reject it of course

but i am forced to accept your claims without any evidence


----------



## Archbob The Ninja (Aug 19, 2005)

At the end of Z. Goku could take a crap and it would destroy half the universe if he wanted it to.

Remember what the Supreme Kai said about Buu in the old days. Galaxies were eradicted because of Buu.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> blows that can destroy a planet compared to cell who can destroy the solar system
> 
> you equally reject my claims even when i posted the page of cell saying that
> 
> ...


 
I still say Cell's claim was bullshit or a mistranslation.  No one in DBZ has ever shown destructive power anywhere near that required to destroy a solar system.

At most they've destroyed a planet, even Majin Buu who was supposed to be the strongest villain (and had the opportunity to) never destroyed more than one planet at a time let alone, a solar system.

Lets say the claim of 300 killis being able to destroy a planet is true, Goku as an SS2 had 3,000, meaning he could destroy 10 around planets and he was far beyond cell, again thats still not taking into consideration the sun, the distance between planets or the overall space around a solar system.


----------



## Green Lantern (Aug 19, 2005)

How would you destroy empty space?

As to whether Goku could destroy planets-

Master Roshi was able to destroy the moon back in the original DB- master roshis power was about 500?
Frieza's power level at final form was more then 1 million- SS1 Goku was more then that, SS3 is much much more then that

so if you inject the maths into it, theoretically speaking Goku should be able to destroy a planet.

(Not saying that Goku could win, but explaining how it is possible for Goku to create a blast needed to destroy a planet)

To all the Goku people in here-

War Hulk has broken the laws of physics and stopped Juggernaut from moving (which is impossible in any other situation)

Laws of physics>>>>>>>>>>>>then anything Goku could do

Even nuclear weapons etc cannot stop Juggernaut from moving, only slow him down, as it is physically impossible in anysituation for Juggernaut to be stopped.

War Hulk stopped Juggernaut, and War Hulk can stop Goku.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 19, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> mistranslation?you are free to google it to confirm


 
Dude, I said it was either a mistranslation or bullshit, its entirely possible he couldn't really do that.  Does it really make sense from two "solar system destroying" blasts to collide and not even destroy the near environment they're on?  The earth should have been vaporized or at the very least the continent they're on should be gone.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> trying to debunk it with science or reason is pointless its a manga


 
I'm simply using logic, in many cases the logic DBZ uses to measure strength (like babidi's measurement).  Goku as an SS2 had power 10 times that needed to destroy a planet.  That means he could destroy the planets if they were all in a nice straight line and he put everything he had into it.

Now Cell was nowhere near that level of power, so how could he destroy the solar system including the sun which is WAY bigger than a planet?  It makes no sense science or not, its just logic.



			
				radishbak said:
			
		

> How would you destroy empty space?


 
You missed my point, in order to destroy a solar system you would have to fill that entire solar system with energy, meaning the energy blast would have to fill all the empty space of the solar system, but still be strong enough to destroy every planet it hits AND the star of that system.



			
				radishbak said:
			
		

> As to whether Goku could destroy planets-
> 
> Master Roshi was able to destroy the moon back in the original DB- master roshis power was about 500?
> Frieza's power level at final form was more then 1 million- SS1 Goku was more then that, SS3 is much much more then that
> ...


 
Did I say he couldn't destroy a planet?  No, I'm saying he never has and never will, and I'm saying he can't destroy a solar system.




			
				radishbak said:
			
		

> To all the Goku people in here-
> 
> War Hulk has broken the laws of physics and stopped Juggernaut from moving (which is impossible in any other situation)
> 
> Laws of physics>>>>>>>>>>>>then anything Goku could do


 
Agreed, regular Hulk has done things Goku could never do like hold open a black hole and shatter an object twice the size of earth with a single physical blow.



			
				radishbak said:
			
		

> Even nuclear weapons etc cannot stop Juggernaut from moving, only slow him down, as it is physically impossible in anysituation for Juggernaut to be stopped.
> 
> War Hulk stopped Juggernaut, and War Hulk can stop Goku.


 
Exactly, point blank nuclear weapons can't hurt the Juggernaut, but War Hulk's celestial power would have been enough to decapitate him.


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 20, 2005)

You can destroy a solar system by going planet to planet and blowing them up 1 by 1


You dont need to literally destroy em all at once


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 20, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> You can destroy a solar system by going planet to planet and blowing them up 1 by 1
> 
> 
> You dont need to literally destroy em all at once


 
Them you're not destroying a SOLAR SYSTEM, you're doing exactly what I said which is only destroying one planet at a time.  If thats all he is capable of then he can't destroy entire solar systems like he claims, he can merely destroy planets which can eventually accumulate into a solar system.

Hulk can destroy planets with a punch, does that mean he can destroy galaxies because he can hit each planet 1 by 1?  No, you can't physically attack an entire galaxy at once and Hulk only really has physical attacks (sometimes breaking the laws of physics).


----------



## Deleted member 15401 (Aug 20, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> The Gamma bomb is the only thing that has ever been able to hurt him to that extent and thats only because its like dropping a kryptonite powered atomic weapon on superman.  And he still came back from that.



in one of the chapters featuring maestro hulk, maestro hulk was sent back in time to the atomic bomb which created hulk in the first place.. and he was owned by it, as in.. died.

and maestro hulk is supposedly the strongest incarnation~


----------



## Gooba (Aug 20, 2005)

hjkou said:
			
		

> in one of the chapters featuring maestro hulk, maestro hulk was sent back in time to the atomic bomb which created hulk in the first place.. and he was owned by it, as in.. died.
> 
> and maestro hulk is supposedly the strongest incarnation~


It was a gamma bomb, so you basicly just cited what he was refering to.  He came back from that.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 20, 2005)

hjkou said:
			
		

> in one of the chapters featuring maestro hulk, maestro hulk was sent back in time to the atomic bomb which created hulk in the first place.. and he was owned by it, as in.. died.
> 
> and maestro hulk is supposedly the strongest incarnation~


 
Dude, we've been talking about that for the last few pages of this thread, and Maestro came back from that. Go back a bit and reread some of the G-bomb posts.

And as Gooba said, that was the exact thing I was referring to in my post.


----------



## Heartgobbler (Aug 20, 2005)

> Still, is superman can fly in space by holding his breath, so should Goku.
> 
> If the Human Torch can ignite himself at will, should Goku be able to?



This power is exclusive to Human Torch. Holding breath in space seems to be just a matter of strenght so any hero who is roughly as strong as Superman should be able to do it. (Superman doesn't seem to have any special organs that would seal his breathing system. He does it just by strenght, which results from his home planet's powerful gravity, just like Goku's).


----------



## konflikti (Aug 20, 2005)

Heartgobbler said:
			
		

> This power is exclusive to Human Torch. Holding breath in space seems to be just a matter of strenght so any hero who is roughly as strong as Superman should be able to do it. (Superman doesn't seem to have any special organs that would seal his breathing system. He does it just by strenght, which results from his home planet's powerful gravity, just like Goku's).


 Are you joking? Goku is nowhere near the invulnerability and strength of Superman. (War) Hulk on the other hand, is.


----------



## Othni (Aug 20, 2005)

In order to blow up a solar system, you don't have to blow every single planet up at the same time. All you have to do it blow up the sun and that'll cause the rest of the solar system to blow up.  That's still pretty powerful even if he just ment that cause he's talking about blasting his kamehameha all the way from earth. And I don't think anyone has really blown up a star/sun. Gladiator was destroying some moon or astroid or something. If that was a star then it'd be burning and it'd look like a mini sun.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 20, 2005)

Othni said:
			
		

> In order to blow up a solar system, you don't have to blow every single planet up at the same time. All you have to do it blow up the sun and that'll cause the rest of the solar system to blow up. That's still pretty powerful even if he just ment that cause he's talking about blasting his kamehameha all the way from earth. And I don't think anyone has really blown up a star/sun. Gladiator was destroying some moon or astroid or something. If that was a star then it'd be burning and it'd look like a mini sun.


 
You're still only destroying one thing at a time, you didn't destroy the solar system, the sun did.  If I press a button on a nuke and it annihilates a city, does that mean my finger has the power to destroy cities because my actions eventually led to that?


----------



## tdultima (Aug 20, 2005)

even if cell only has the power to destroy the sun that still means he has an energy attack stronger than anything the hulk or gladiator has shown

thats what many people here are saying

gladiator punched out a planet/moon (size unknown)

hulk took out a asteroid twice the size of earth (with help from an experimental anti magnetic ect ect)

that doesnt top the sun

the question is if hulks durability and regen can survive the blast

gamma bomb > sun busting beam

or sun busting beam > gamma bomb


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 20, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> even if cell only has the power to destroy the sun that still means he has an energy attack stronger than anything the hulk or gladiator has shown


 
My whole point is he probably DOESN'T have that level of power.  Goku when measured by babidi as a SS2 had 10 times the power to destroy a planet, the sun is 100 times bigger than the earth.

Hulk has broken many laws of phsyics, holding open the black hole is more impressive than blowing up the sun (which cell probably can't do).  A black hole can destroy pretty much anything.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> thats what many people here are saying
> 
> gladiator punched out a planet/moon (size unknown)
> 
> ...


 
See above.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> the question is if hulks durability and regen can survive the blast
> 
> gamma bomb > sun busting beam
> 
> or sun busting beam > gamma bomb


 
How many times do we have to say it?  The gamma bomb is the specific type and frequency of energy the hulk would be most vulnerable to, you can't use its raw force as ANY type of measurement.  Shoot superman with a bullet and he's, shoot him with a kryptonite bullet and he probably won't be.


----------



## ageofdarkness (Aug 20, 2005)

If I'm correct, the only reason the gamma bomb had that great an effect on Maestro Hulk is because it is his specific weakness. The gamma bomb radiation explosion was what created the Hulk or something like that.

A sun destroying beam may or may not be stronger than a gamma bomb, but it is not a weakness of Hulk at all. That is why the Hulk can regenerate from it.


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 20, 2005)

ITS WAR HULK NOT  MAESTRO HULK!! WAR hulk is fighting Ssj3 goku in this so yea ..


----------



## ageofdarkness (Aug 20, 2005)

Ok, you can drop 500 nuclear bombs on War Hulk. He might not even be injured, but if he is, then he will quickly regenerate to full health.

Now, you drop 1 gamma bomb on War Hulk, and well, War Hulk might come back, but it will take a while.

See, Goku needs to have some kind of ki attack that produces immense amounts of gamma radiation to have a chance of taking War Hulk out for a period of time.

Goku can have a sun destroying ki blast, but War Hulk will just regenerate.

That sun destroying ki blast could be much stronger than a gamma bomb, but will not do much to War Hulk because it is not his weakness.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 20, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> ITS WAR HULK NOT MAESTRO HULK!! WAR hulk is fighting Ssj3 goku in this so yea ..


 
War Hulk was granted almost cosmic levels of power, physically that can _probably_(no way to know) put him above Maestro in terms of physical durability.  But since War Hulk wasn't even scratched we can't judge his durability or healing factor.


----------



## Gooba (Aug 20, 2005)

They have the same weakness to the Gamma Bomb.


----------



## Kamendex (Aug 20, 2005)

radishbak said:
			
		

> How would you destroy empty space?
> 
> As to whether Goku could destroy planets-
> 
> ...




Kamesennin was about 140-160 power level when he destroyed then moon....and Frieza's final form was over 10 million......not 1 million...hell it was even stated that his SECOND form was over 1 million....

Also, Gokuu was measured at 3,000 Killi at SSj not SSj2....


----------



## tdultima (Aug 20, 2005)

and for those that say goku cant teleport while charging a beam

remember the cell fight?

he teleported right in front of cell while charging the kamehameha and hit him point blank


----------



## ChaochroX (Aug 20, 2005)

I think people underestimate goku. I mean ever since he was fighting Vageta the first time after he got wished back he was on the level of destroying the world. The beam that Vageta shot at him was ment to destroy the world and goku shot a stronger one back at him. That was like his 3rd badguy in the whole show and he was already that strong. Its defanitly safe to say he got at least (and this is an understatement) 100x stronger then he was when he fought Vageta during the frieza saga. So at that time he had the power to destroy 100 earths with one blast. And we're talking about all the way to the end of DBZ so his power at this point is just mind bogling I doubt even the Hulk would win.


----------



## tdultima (Aug 20, 2005)

ageofdarkness said:
			
		

> Goku can have a sun destroying ki blast, but War Hulk will just regenerate.



im open to all opinions

i agree if that is the case then hulk wins

but i (personally) am not convinced that it is true

hulk has been damaged by lots of non gamma attacks...adamantium blades, gladiator beams, vector, ect.

i get the impression that a large enough non gamma attack can disintegrate hulk

whether or not he comes back from that (quickly...not 10 years) is a matter of opinion


----------



## ageofdarkness (Aug 21, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> im open to all opinions
> 
> i agree if that is the case then hulk wins
> 
> ...




Agreed and true.

War Hulk is on a celestial level many times greater than the regular Hulk. He has never been scratched before. He may or may not be stronger than Maestro Hulk physically.

Goku needs some kind of ki blast explosion that can completely wipe out War Hulk's existence, which is not possible in my opinion.  

Some don't think Goku has this kind of destructive power or that War Hulk can regenerate from it, which is what I believe.  Some think that Goku has this destructive power and that War Hulk can't regenerate from it.

I wanna ask you this question. How many punches do you think would War Hulk would need to kill Goku if Goku lets him attack freely?


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 21, 2005)

^ thats the thing goku is a smart fighter so he would not let the hulk touch him.

its true war hulk can pick up an island. but can he shanke a whole earth just from powering up? goku did while going to ssj3 ( and yes its even in the manga) right their shows some danm fearsome power. Lighting bolts all around him etc.

about the nukes not stoping jugernaught. let me let you know that a a normal blast from frezia left more danamge than what  a nuke can do.


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## Deleted member 15401 (Aug 21, 2005)

how about goku grabs all the dragonballs, flying around the earth while hulk chases him. then wishes hulk to be weak, MUAHA


----------



## konflikti (Aug 21, 2005)

For the record, Goku may be fighting genious but he lacks the basics. Giving Cell senzu bean for example. He wants it fair. He ain't gonna make somebody weak because he wants to gauge himself against all kinds of fighters. War Hulk doesn't care about this. He just kills Goku at the very moment he is able to. It is plausible that  War Hulk can shatter Earth by single punch. Can we see Goku doing that? No. What does is matter that his power up shakes the earth? I haven't seen Hulk being defeated by earthquakes and Hulk can defeat the Earth by single punch, without powering up.

Juggernaut... It's against the laws of physics to stop him(have we seen DBZ people bend or break the law of their respective worlds physics?). Yet War Hulk did it. And didn't even seem like much of a feat to him.

Yeah, Hulk has been damaged by lot of stuff. But they barely slow him down. And we are talking about War Hulk. He hasn't been even scratched. How can you tell that with his mighty sword(Absorbing Man tried to absorb it, and exploded) he couldn't hit Goku's big beam right back at him? But well, there is no proof of that. So pro Hulk cannot really use that as advantage.

The thing with DBZ beam-attacks is that they are supposed to be all-mighty planetary destruction forces, yet they do virtually no damage to anything. Goku and the crew are _supposed_ to be able to destroy planets by single attack yet they never do. They barely break the ground. So something is very wrong.


----------



## acritarch (Aug 21, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> and for those that say goku cant teleport while charging a beam
> 
> remember the cell fight?
> 
> he teleported right in front of cell while charging the kamehameha and hit him point blank



NO ONE SAID THAT. I said that he didn't use IT when he was holding the Genki Dama when Buu threw an energy ball at him when you said he did use IT. And I provided you with the manga page to back up my statement.




			
				hjkou said:
			
		

> how about goku grabs all the dragonballs, flying around the earth while hulk chases him. then wishes hulk to be weak, MUAHA



No. I'll leave you to figure out why.. 




			
				konflikti said:
			
		

> The thing with DBZ beam-attacks is that they are supposed to be all-mighty planetary destruction forces, yet they do virtually no damage to anything. Goku and the crew are _supposed_ to be able to destroy planets by single attack yet they never do. They barely break the ground. So something is very wrong.



Well, all of the planetary destroying attacks we saw in DB (Buu destroying earth and Frieza destroying Namek) were from energy balls fired at the core of the earth. Eh, I don't really know if that means anything or not though


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## konflikti (Aug 21, 2005)

braindx said:
			
		

> Well, all of the planetary destroying attacks we saw in DB (Buu destroying earth and Frieza destroying Namek) were from energy balls fired at the core of the earth. Eh, I don't really know if that means anything or not though


Yeah, I know. The point is that most pro-Goku people try to point out that every single Kamehameha from Goku would destroy at least planets. Yet there are only couple instances where the attack was especially aimed for planet and it did destroy the planet. The beams that they shoot at each other usually seem to do some minor damage compared to the size of planets.


----------



## Deleted member 15401 (Aug 21, 2005)

braindx said:
			
		

> No. I'll leave you to figure out why..



cbf, tell me please

unless its "hulk punched a hole in reality, and altered the universe so that the db's were never made".. if thats the case i dont want to hear it


----------



## konflikti (Aug 21, 2005)

Dragon Balls are out-side help. Do we give Hulk the chance to borrow SS's board?


----------



## Pinkaugust (Aug 21, 2005)

Hej hjkou, I think you had a really good point there, Goku can just Wish Hulk never existed if he want's to, also, he could blow up the planet with hulk on it, and right at the impact moment, teleport away to another planet, and survive, whilst Hulk either freezes to death (-276 degrees is the coldest there is, and therefor hulk dies) suffocate, If hulk can run out of breath which he can (even if it makes him grow stronger, so he gains more power to keep fighting when tired) or he could leave him there forever until he just dies, he can't go anywhere anyways.. A win for Goku, simple..


----------



## konflikti (Aug 21, 2005)

Except Hulk doesn't die of old age, unlike Goku. Except Hulk can survive in space, unlike Goku. Except teleporting to another planet would be running away(not win, duh). Except he needs a ki source where to lock too(outside help).  And except Goku has never displayed the ability destroy a planet, even if it is highly possible. It's also possible for Hulk to maneuver in space by taking his finger off and throwing it in some direction to gain momentum and then regrowing that finger. After a while we have lightspeed travelling War Hulk who is seriously pissed off.

Oh, and DBs are outside help. They do not count.


----------



## Deleted member 15401 (Aug 21, 2005)

war hulk wouldnt be able to take his own finger off
hes skin and body is just, to invulnerable i thought : )


----------



## Pinkaugust (Aug 21, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> Except Hulk doesn't die of old age, unlike Goku. Except Hulk can survive in space, unlike Goku. Except teleporting to another planet would be running away(not win, duh). Except he needs a ki source where to lock too(outside help).  And except Goku has never displayed the ability destroy a planet, even if it is highly possible. It's also possible for Hulk to maneuver in space by taking his finger off and throwing it in some direction to gain momentum and then regrowing that finger. After a while we have lightspeed travelling War Hulk who is seriously pissed off.
> 
> Oh, and DBs are outside help. They do not count.


Hulk cannot move in space, noone can, and that's just a rediculous statement from you. Throwing away his finger? lol Truly you must be stupid.
I don't consider that running away as the hulk would already be beaten when he teleports away. And there are Ki sources everywhere.
Why does it matter so much to you whether goku uses the dragonballs or he destroys a planet? Gokus power is beyond destroying galaxies by now, so he could destroy hulk anyway, but destroying a planet then wishing it back, would be the best victory, because Hulk gets trapped in space anyhow, if he survived the explosion, which could totally destroy him. Remember that Goku has faced similar foes in Cell and Buu, and therefor knows how to beat regenerating cells, and also Cell and Buu knew how to deflect his attacks Hulk doesn't and therefor is open to any attack of Son Gokus choosing. Hulk isn't invincible, no matter what you say.


----------



## konflikti (Aug 21, 2005)

Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Hulk cannot move in space, noone can, and that's just a rediculous statement from you. Throwing away his finger? lol Truly you must be stupid.


Well, how did humankind reach Moon, huh? Anyways, that ridiculous statement is also called sarcasm. Meaning that I wasn't serious, and was just joking around, in case you didn't know.



			
				Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Why does it matter so much to you whether goku uses the dragonballs or he destroys a planet?


Destroying the planet Hulk stands on is no win for Goku. Hulk can do that too and that doesn't mean he just won Goku. Dragon Balls is outside help, so of course it matters. Goku usually isn't equipped with DB you know. Just like War Hulk doesn't come equipped with Surfers board and Infinity Gauntlet. 



			
				Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Gokus power is beyond destroying galaxies by now, so he could destroy hulk anyway, but destroying a planet then wishing it back, would be the best victory, because Hulk gets trapped in space anyhow, if he survived the explosion, which could totally destroy him.


Space doesn't kill him. Have we seen Goku destroy galaxies? No, so therefore he ain't able to do that. You can argue that he should be able to destroy maybe planets or solar systems with his energy blasts, yet they rarely show such a power. Hulk on the other hand has destroyed meteor twice the size of Earth by single punch.



			
				Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Remember that Goku has faced similar foes in Cell and Buu, and therefor knows how to beat regenerating cells, and also Cell and Buu knew how to deflect his attacks Hulk doesn't and therefor is open to any attack of Son Gokus choosing. Hulk isn't invincible, no matter what you say.


Hulk probably has faced flying and energy blasting foes before too. Does that mean that he automatically wins? Hulk has enough physical power to break laws of physics. Why wouldn't he be able to push some puny ki-blast aside?

Hulk isn't invincible, but he is damn near invulnerable and regenerates damn fast.


----------



## Pinkaugust (Aug 21, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> Well, how did humankind reach Moon, huh? Anyways, that ridiculous statement is also called sarcasm. Meaning that I wasn't serious, and was just joking around, in case you didn't know.



Whatever, then.. That's out of the world.



			
				konflikti said:
			
		

> Destroying the planet Hulk stands on is no win for Goku. Hulk can do that too and that doesn't mean he just won Goku. Dragon Balls is outside help, so of course it matters. Goku usually isn't equipped with DB you know. Just like War Hulk doesn't come equipped with Surfers board and Infinity Gauntlet.



True..



			
				konflikti said:
			
		

> Space doesn't kill him. Have we seen Goku destroy galaxies? No, so therefore he ain't able to do that. You can argue that he should be able to destroy maybe planets or solar systems with his energy blasts, yet they rarely show such a power. Hulk on the other hand has destroyed meteor twice the size of Earth by single punch.



Goku destroyed Brolli who holds the power to destroy galaxies, and Buu is the ultimate weapon, and he can easilly destroy entire galaxies, too.. If Goku can destroy then, and then also grow stronger, he should already have surpassed them. Don't you agree?



			
				konflikti said:
			
		

> Hulk probably has faced flying and energy blasting foes before too. Does that mean that he automatically wins? Hulk has enough physical power to break laws of physics. Why wouldn't he be able to push some puny ki-blast aside?



He wins, period.


----------



## Shiron (Aug 21, 2005)

Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Goku destroyed Brolli who holds the power to destroy galaxies, and Buu is the ultimate weapon, and he can easilly destroy entire galaxies, too.. If Goku can destroy then, and then also grow stronger, he should already have surpassed them. Don't you agree?
> 
> 
> 
> He wins, period.


Brolly = DBZ movie = non-cannon = Doesn't count. 
When has Buu destroyed an entire galaxy in one attack? I remember him destroying one planet at a time with his energy blasts, but not an entire galaxy. 
Goku by himself didn't beat Buu. He used a Genki Dama, filled with the energy from across the whole universe, to finish off Buu. A Genki Dama. While that's Goku's technique, it's filled with the energy of people across the universe. And yet again, Hulk wouldn't just sit there and let Goku charge it. Goku might be able to take successive attacks from Freiza and Buu, but there's no way he can take too many direct blows from the War Hulk while attempting to charge the attack that even if he did finish it, it probably wouldn't kill the Hulk anyways.  -MnK


----------



## tdultima (Aug 21, 2005)

braindx said:
			
		

> NO ONE SAID THAT. I said that he didn't use IT when he was holding the Genki Dama when Buu threw an energy ball at him when you said he did use IT. And I provided you with the manga page to back up my statement.



a lot of people said goku wouldnt have time to charge up a beam so im proving that goku can in fact teleport while charging


anyway heres what you said

"Okay, Volume 42, Chap 14, Pic 2... His body blurs on the bottom middle panel to dodge Buu's blast... but it CAN'T be instant transmission (IT) because there is no one around him to lock his Ki onto AND he stays in virtually the same place he was up in the air before Buu fired the blast. Additionally, he doesn't have the ability to touch his forehead and focus which we've seen he must do each and every time he wants to IT. He HAS to have just sidestepped it quickly."


1. he can lock on to the genki dama's ki

2. we've seen goku stay in the same place and teleport before...remember when he demonstrated the IT to trunks the first time and showed him roshi's sunglasses?

3. touching the forhead is not required as we can see in the cell battle


so how are you so sure that it wasn't IT?


----------



## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 21, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> For the record, Goku may be fighting genious but he lacks the basics. Giving Cell senzu bean for example. He wants it fair. He ain't gonna make somebody weak because he wants to gauge himself against all kinds of fighters. War Hulk doesn't care about this. He just kills Goku at the very moment he is able to. It is plausible that  War Hulk can shatter Earth by single punch. Can we see Goku doing that? No. What does is matter that his power up shakes the earth? I haven't seen Hulk being defeated by earthquakes and Hulk can defeat the Earth by single punch, without powering up.
> 
> Juggernaut... It's against the laws of physics to stop him(have we seen DBZ people bend or break the law of their respective worlds physics?). Yet War Hulk did it. And didn't even seem like much of a feat to him.
> 
> ...




yes in DBZ we did see the law of physic's broken when Buu and Gotenks ( in ssj3) can rip threw time and space .. Buu would have succed in breaking the whole physical cosmo's if vegeto did not stop him so yes we did see that stuff in DBZ.

I am just saying the fear force of the power goku has if u can make the whole earth shake just from calling forth power that is pretty danm insane and the fact of having lightingbolts around him and what not basically meaning is one tough power hose.

plus about the attacks u tend to forget they control them beams if they want they can destroy the planent if not they have the power to divert it or not  ppl tend to forget that.


plus kon war hulk does not have silvers surfer board that is monstrous hulk  or whatever so dont get them mixed up in ur facts.


men goku got the spirit bombs power to beat buu from every life on the earth not the universe.

plus about all these nukes not scratching war hulk over half of frezia's attacks on super sayien goku the explosions where alot bigger than a nuke and goku stood their unarmed with a grin on his face. So yea goku cna take blast's like a nuke and still not get hurt.


plus kon about the did we see goku destroy a galaxy no we have not but it was stated by cell ( anime and manga) that he had enough power to destroy a the entire soloar system and he was only in ssj2 form. So yes goku does have that power.


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## konflikti (Aug 21, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> plus about the attacks u tend to forget they control them beams if they want they can destroy the planent if not they have the power to divert it or not  ppl tend to forget that.


Wouldn't they want to hit their enemies with everything they got? Maybe it's just plot induced stupidity though. It would be kinda ridiculous to see Goku accidently blow up the planet he was on and die in space.



			
				Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> plus kon war hulk does not have silvers surfer board that is monstrous hulk  or whatever so dont get them mixed up in ur facts.


Please don't school me for something I didn't say. I just compared Goku having Dragon Balls around to that. And the particular Hulk is Maestro. Not that he'd be able to ride that thing anyway.




			
				Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> plus about all these nukes not scratching war hulk over half of frezia's attacks on super sayien goku the explosions where alot bigger than a nuke and goku stood their unarmed with a grin on his face. So yea goku cna take blast's like a nuke and still not get hurt.


Yet they were not nuke. As far as I know, Goku doesn't have resistance to extremely high temperatures, which is what nukes are all about. You can't compare ki-blasts and nukes directly.



			
				Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> plus kon about the did we see goku destroy a galaxy no we have not but it was stated by cell ( anime and manga) that he had enough power to destroy a the entire soloar system and he was only in ssj2 form. So yes goku does have that power.


Even if that was true, and not just Cell bullshitting, solar system is only a tiny tiny fraction of a galaxy. It would take long time for Goku to destroy whole galaxy even if he had the power to disingterate a solar system by single blast and could survive in space.


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## Kamendex (Aug 21, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> yes in DBZ we did see the law of physic's broken when Buu and Gotenks ( in ssj3) can rip threw time and space .. *Buu would have succed in breaking the whole physical cosmo's if vegeto did not stop him so yes we did see that stuff in DBZ.*



Filler....you use too much filler buddy....



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> 2. we've seen goku stay in the same place and teleport before...remember when he demonstrated the IT to trunks the first time and showed him roshi's sunglasses?



Dude are you serious.....? Gokuu ITED to Kamesennin and back....why the hell do you think he was wearing his glasses? That's not staying in the same place and teleporting...


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## tdultima (Aug 21, 2005)

Kamendex said:
			
		

> Dude are you serious.....? Gokuu ITED to Kamesennin and back....why the hell do you think he was wearing his glasses? That's not staying in the same place and teleporting...



why is it so hard to believe that goku can IT away to avoid buu's attack?

i meant he ITed away and and ITed back to reappeared in the same place

at first vegata said it was a speed trick...then the sunglasses were proof

so goku ITed away from buu's attack and reappeared to continue with the genki dama

thats what i meant


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## Kamendex (Aug 21, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> why is it so hard to believe that goku can IT away to avoid buu's attack?
> 
> i meant he ITed away and and ITed back to reappeared in the same place
> 
> ...



Except he'd needed someone to IT to which we dont know if he did....but we do know when he came back he didnt IT to ANYONE cause there was no one near him....Gokuu side-stepped/warped.......

It's not the same thing he did when he went to get Kamesennin's glasses...


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## acritarch (Aug 21, 2005)

tdultima said:
			
		

> a lot of people said goku wouldnt have time to charge up a beam so im proving that goku can in fact teleport while charging
> 
> 
> anyway heres what you said
> ...



You are absolutely wrong. Goku cannot have used IT when he was holding the Genki Dama because if he did there was no Ki to lock onto to go back to the same place in the air that he was previously. Therefore, that means he must have sidestepped it.


And for all of you excitedly yapping about using the dragonballs... No, Goku can't wish the Hulk powered down or dead because that is not the in scope of the dragon's power. For example. Krillen wished for Android 18 to become human but the dragon said he wasn't able to make the wish come true for people stronger than he is. Specifically shenron says "I can't do that. Both cyborgs are much stronger than me so I can't do anything to their persons." (Vol35, Ch10, Pg2, bottom right panel). The Z team also wished to make someone weak.. I can't remember who exactly (but it was during the Cell/Buu saga), but the dragon couldn't do it either. So stop bring up the dragonballs.


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## tdultima (Aug 21, 2005)

can we at least agree that it was _possible_ that goku ITed away from buu's attack?

can he not lock onto buu or the genki dama's ki to pinpoint the exact location to reappear?

my main point is that goku can IT while charging beams to counter the people that say goku takes forever to charge and the hulk would just knock him out

besides the hulk is not that fast


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## konflikti (Aug 21, 2005)

Hulk isn't fast, but he can track objects of really high velocity and act accordingly. He can also jump long distances(something like 3 miles) and run quite fast, even if we rarely see him running(I read 150mph from somewhere, not sure about the credibility of the source).


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 21, 2005)

I'm surprised how fast this thread moves.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> can we at least agree that it was _possible_ that goku ITed away from buu's attack?


 
Possible, but very unlikely, what would he have locked onto? It just makes more sense to have side-stepped.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> can he not lock onto buu or the genki dama's ki to pinpoint the exact location to reappear?


 
When he ITs he ITs to a KI signature, I don't recall him ever using a power as a reference point to find where he was in relation to it? Wouldn't that be risky? He could be wrong and end up inside a tree or a bird.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> my main point is that goku can IT while charging beams to counter the people that say goku takes forever to charge and the hulk would just knock him out


 
Lets say that happens, Hulk isn't going to do like DBZ villains do and just stand there twitching his face until the beam reaches him, he'll move out of the way.

And at point blank the beam isn't wide enough to cover someone as big as the Hulk, Cell is smaller than the Hulk and only the upper half of his body was touched by the beam Goku shot point blank.



			
				tdultima said:
			
		

> besides the hulk is not that fast


 
Thats initially, Hulk always catches them eventually. Think about it, as his strength grows more force will be moving his body.

He's caught people like speedfreak who is WAY faster than cap could ever hope to be, he's pulled the surfer off his board and caught spiderman who is far faster and more agile than Cap not to mention his spider sense to alert him of danger.


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## Giant Enemy Crab (Aug 21, 2005)

SSJ3 Goku would own.


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## Kamendex (Aug 21, 2005)

homestar said:
			
		

> SSJ3 Goku would own.



You are a genius my friend....


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## acritarch (Aug 21, 2005)

Tsu said:
			
		

> When he ITs he ITs to a KI signature, I don't recall him ever using a power as a reference point to find where he was in relation to it? Wouldn't that be risky? He could be wrong and end up inside a tree or a bird.



Agreed. The Genki Dama is just a ball of energy. It doesn't have a Ki. When he ITs it has to be right next to a person with a Ki signature.


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## Ssj3_Goku (Aug 21, 2005)

Dematrilaztation is goku's friend!

IT is also gokus friend in tough spots! 

filler? umm if ur so sure that is a filler please post the manga chapter to it .. i can right now if u want and it says  about buu doing that.




			
				Kamendex said:
			
		

> You are a genius my friend....



kamen u really need to stop insulting peoples OPINONS! he said ssj3 goku would own that is his opinion seriously stop being an asshole abuot what people choose on a message board.


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## Pinkaugust (Aug 21, 2005)

Tsukiyomi said:
			
		

> When he ITs he ITs to a KI signature, I don't recall him ever using a power as a reference point to find where he was in relation to it? Wouldn't that be risky? He could be wrong and end up inside a tree or a bird.


 
Indeed it would be risky, but can still be done.



> Lets say that happens, Hulk isn't going to do like DBZ villains do and just stand there twitching his face until the beam reaches him, he'll move out of the way.



Goku can sense Ki from far away space.. He could easilly sense Hulk from the other side of the planet and gather ki for his attack, It would take hulk quite some time to catch him then. plus Goku can steer the Ki-blast to wherever he wants, so he won't miss Hulk. Who is a quite big and compared to Gokus previous opponents quite slow too.



> And at point blank the beam isn't wide enough to cover someone as big as the Hulk, Cell is smaller than the Hulk and only the upper half of his body was touched by the beam Goku shot point blank.


 
Then why shoot that close? and why not from behind? does it matter? he can still spread the blast.



> Thats initially, Hulk always catches them eventually. Think about it, as his strength grows more force will be moving his body.


 
still doesn't matter.



> He's caught people like speedfreak who is WAY faster than cap could ever hope to be, he's pulled the surfer off his board and caught spiderman who is far faster and more agile than Cap not to mention his spider sense to alert him of danger.


Doesn't mean he can catch Goku who can teleport away. Spidey may be warned but he still can't react if he's not fast enough..


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## Kamendex (Aug 21, 2005)

Ssj3_Goku said:
			
		

> Dematrilaztation is goku's friend!
> 
> IT is also gokus friend in tough spots!
> 
> ...



It was filler....go ahead and post that manga chapter.....

And umm....this isnt based on opinion...this is based on fact...this isnt a popularity contest....


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## Pinkaugust (Aug 21, 2005)

Anyone here who disagrees that Buu can destroy an entire galaxy on his own, even if not in a single attack?


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## Bullet (Aug 21, 2005)

Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Indeed it would be risky, but can still be done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why whould the battle start with them far from each other? This is supposed to be a fare fight. And each time Goku use IT it takes up some of his energy, I don't think he'll use that technique that much as he has superspeed instead. And if Goku throw a fully powered Kamehameha wave and it fails to finish Hulk (I'm sure Hulk will survive) off, the match is over, as he won't have enough energy left to continue fighting.


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## Pinkaugust (Aug 21, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Why whould the battle start with them far from each other? This is supposed to be a fare fight. And each time Goku use IT it takes up some of his energy, I don't think he'll use that technique that much as he has superspeed instead. And if Goku throw a fully powered Kamehameha wave and it fails to finish Hulk (I'm sure Hulk will survive) off, the match is over, as he won't have enough energy left to continue fighting.


well, so does superspeed, and IT moves him faster. It's not fair to use all your power? Then if goku isn't allowed to use IT, then Hulk isn't allowed to use his power either, to get angry and strong, so then Goku wins again!!
Fully powered Kamehameha could take out alot of planets directly, why would hulk be stronger than the entire earth? or our solar system? And it would still tear him appart and destroy his cells, just like cell and buu, so he shouldn't be able to regenerate again. Even so, there would be no more planet for hulk to fight Goku on, and he'd be trapped in space, but Goku can IT away.


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 21, 2005)

Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> well, so does superspeed, and IT moves him faster.


 
Whats your point?  He's still using up energy and will eventually tire, Hulk can go on forever.



			
				Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> It's not fair to use all your power? Then if goku isn't allowed to use IT, then Hulk isn't allowed to use his power either, to get angry and strong, so then Goku wins again!!


 
Thats just stupid, IT is a technique you learn, the Hulks strength, speed, endurance, durability and regenerative powers are all natural things in his body.  Thats like me saying Goku can't use any of his saiyan strength.



			
				Pinkaugust said:
			
		

> Fully powered Kamehameha could take out alot of planets directly, why would hulk be stronger than the entire earth? or our solar system? And it would still tear him appart and destroy his cells, just like cell and buu, so he shouldn't be able to regenerate again. Even so, there would be no more planet for hulk to fight Goku on, and he'd be trapped in space, but Goku can IT away.


 
I've yet to see a blast destroy something then go on to destroy something else, the closest we have is when Gohan's blast went through Cell, then it just faded into nothingness.

Now not to repeat that which has been said, but even if Hulk couldn't withstand such a blow without being damaged, he wouldn't instantly regenerate.  And War Hulk has never been scratched by anything, its safe to assume his regenerative powers were jacked up too.

Now to say this again, Goku cannot survive being in space for any length of time, if he destroys the earth, he'll be dead before he can IT anywhere.

Hulk will live (Gamma creatures like the abomination have shown they can survive in space), Goku will die.  Hulk can survive extended periods of time in space, and even once he runs out of air he'll probably just go into hibernation like the Abomination did.


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## acritarch (Aug 21, 2005)

OKAY SERIOUSLY. ONCE AND FOR ALL. FACTS ABOUT IT AND KAMEHAMEHAS

*IT FACTS*
1. Goku can only use IT when he locks onto a KI signature to move to the entire spot.
2. Goku can use IT while charging up a Kamehameha (Cell battle)
3. Goku cannot use IT while charging a Genki Dama (Volume 42, Chap 14, Pic 2). He moves out of the way. If he used IT to get out of the way, how exactly is he going to use IT to get back to where he was initially since there is no one with a Ki signature near him? Oh that right, he can't.

*Kamehameha FACTS*
1a. Roshi has destroyed the moon with a Kamehameha
1b. Cell, Gohan and Goku when they are firing up fully charged Kamehamehas at each other don't even destroy the earth when the energy collides right above the ground (Cell was standing on the ground when he was vaporized).
1c. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that a Kamehameha must be fired at the core of a planet to blow it up. HOWEVER, since the moon is considerably smaller than the earth (1/3 the size), we don't know how a Kamehameha will affect a regular planet but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since Roshi is weak compared to the later Z fighters (Buu and Frieza's energy blasts that destroyed Earth and Namek respectively were energy BALLS not beams).

2a. The Kamehameha has never been shown to blow up multiple things in a row. After it impacts a target, whether it be character or planet, its energy dissipates.
2b. Therefore, Goku cannot destroy multiple things (planets, solar system) with a Kamehameha.

3a. Both the Kamehameha and Genki Dama take an absurdly long time to power up (in fighting time)
3b. Therefore, this gives the Hulk an excellent chance to dodge the incoming energy beam/blast. Why he would sit there and take one like the Z fighter's enemies would be beyond me.


Most probable senario(s) for a fight. Let's also keep in mind that Goku can only stay in SSJ3 for about 10 minutes before he gets tired.

Goku likes to fight fair and likes to test out the opposition. This has been shown in the DBZ manga and is consistent throughout the DB years with the Red Ribbon army to all the way through Cell and Buu. And if Goku decides to engage Hulk up close in a flurry of kicks and punches contest, he will be caught by the Hulk and smashed OR just punched into oblivion in the first hit. Hulk wins. This is the most logical senario and will occur most of the time. 

HOWEVER, if Goku does manage to figure out that Hulk has a super massive strength and to avoid close combat, then he will probably fly up into the air to charge up a Kamehameha or Genki Dama. When this happens, the Hulk will get angry because he can't fly and most likely either use his super jumping powers to launch himself straight at Goku (suprising him no doubt and catching him off guard) or clap his hands to make super sonic shockwaves at Goku (remember that air compression waves causes the most destruction at nuclear denonation sites). The Hulk wins. 

IF, by some minute chance, Goku somehow manages to avoid this onslaught, and gets off a full powered Kamehameha or Genki Dama at the Hulk, they go so slow that the Hulk could easily jump out of the way. Goku will be exhausted by then and the Hulk will easily overcome him. In all reality, Hulk's limitless strength (through is anger) means he probably does not even have to take the beam or ball of energy and can just knock it out of the way. Who in their right mind would stand in the way of them like the antagonists in DBZ?

BUT let's say Goku somehow does actually blast him with a full powered Kamehameha or Genki Dama (by some miracle of nature), the Hulk would obviously be damaged but would it vaporize him? I am almost 100% positive that neither shots will vaporize him. More powerful stuff has hit him before (Vector's beam that repels matter. BTW, just for reference vector can use this ability to launch himself into another dimension to escape that's how strong it is (The Incredible Hulk #305) and then Vector hits him with it and turns him into a Skeleton and the Hulk is still able to walk against it and hit Vector (TIH #398 and the pic is somewhere in this thread) and Gladiator's little eyebeam that destroys planets only scratched the surface on Hulk's skin). Seriously, if repelling matter cannot affect the Hulk, nothing short of a Gamma radiation bomb (his weakness) is going to injure him that badly that he can't regenerate. AND just to add insult to the injury, Hulk starts to heal right away when he gets damaged.. unlike Cell and Buu who start to heal after they have been blasted. This will give him a considerable advantage, but it is not like he needs it.


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## Bullet (Aug 22, 2005)

braindx said:
			
		

> OKAY SERIOUSLY. ONCE AND FOR ALL. FACTS ABOUT IT AND KAMEHAMEHAS
> 
> *IT FACTS*
> 1. Goku can only use IT when he locks onto a KI signature to move to the entire spot.
> ...



Nicely done!:


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## Maffy the Love Doctor (Aug 22, 2005)

the hulk is green.......he wins . now if it was a fight against piccolo :.....


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## Final Ultima (Aug 22, 2005)

braindx said:
			
		

> 3. Goku cannot use IT while charging a Genki Dama (Volume 42, Chap 14, Pic 2). He moves out of the way. If he used IT to get out of the way, how exactly is he going to use IT to get back to where he was initially since there is no one with a Ki signature near him? Oh that right, he can't.


That fact is somewhat debatable, as it depends on how you perceive the concept of ki "signatures". As far as I see it, the Genki Dama is a honking, great, big mass of ki on it's own. Considering it's composed of the ki of everyone on Earth, I doubt Goku wouldn't be able to locate it using Shunkan Idou...I mean, how could he miss something like that?


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## Pinkaugust (Aug 22, 2005)

Totally agree..


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## acritarch (Aug 22, 2005)

Final Ultima said:
			
		

> That fact is somewhat debatable, as it depends on how you perceive the concept of ki "signatures". As far as I see it, the Genki Dama is a honking, great, big mass of ki on it's own. Considering it's composed of the ki of everyone on Earth, I doubt Goku wouldn't be able to locate it using Shunkan Idou...I mean, how could he miss something like that?



You know what? I don't really care anymore because it really won't help him in his fight against Hulk anyway.


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## Fenix (Dec 10, 2005)

dragonball universe > the ridiculous crap marvel and dc has come up

goku wins this effortlessly because the rules of the worlds are different and goku is actually trillions times stronger than what you all think

-_-


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## Phaze1TM (Dec 10, 2005)

This would have been better if it was SS Goku because Well when He is Giji Non-Canon He had the power to use his MIND to pick up something the size of out moon and Drop it on Someone Well I'm pretty Sure that way to heavy and a Tap From Goku equals about 9000 Plus pounds In Non-Canon Form So unless War-Hulk Has Sharingan Then He Would When Goku WOuld toy with Hulk like a Kid He would teleport around Hulk Cause he so Slow and Goku Would Puch him thru a planet like he did kid BUU and Rofl Lamo at him And Charge For jebei Kamehama And Blast him into Hell. Then God Akuma Would COme outta Nowhere And Use Shun Goku Satsu (瞬獄殺, literally: Instant Hell Murder, a.k.a. The Raging Demon) aka Friction Toe and send Goku to hell But goku would Come back and Akuma Would be all LIke WHAT DA FUC* And Teleport away.


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## Hiruma (Dec 10, 2005)

GODDAMN. Manga characters just can't keep up with really strong DC and Marvel ones. War Hulk is a cosmic. Goku < Cosmic. People need to know this really.


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## Shiron (Dec 10, 2005)

Why was this thread revived? ing
Anyways, yet again, War Hulk. Even if we assume he is weaker than Goku at base (which I'm fairly sure would be false), Hulk would only keep on getting madder until he becomes powerful enough to beat Goku. And don't forget about the Hulk's healing factor. Combining these two things, the conclusion we can reach is War Hulk >>>>>>>>>>> Goku. 

War Hulk: 
Pretty much unlimited stamina. 
Gets stronger as he gets madder. 
Has an unbelieveable healing factor. 

Off Topic: And I'm beginning to wonder if a certain user is just a troll...


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## omgbbq (Mar 29, 2007)

hulk throwing a 150billion ton mountain is very impressive.  but goku can blow up galaxies, so this goes to goku.


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## Slips (Mar 29, 2007)

omgbbq said:


> hulk throwing a 150billion ton mountain is very impressive.  but goku can blow up galaxies, so this goes to goku.



What you mean prof Hulk aka the weakest Hulk

This is war Hulk the one that did the impossible and stopped Juggs in his tracks


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## ~Shin~ (Mar 29, 2007)

> hulk throwing a 150billion ton mountain is very impressive. but goku can blow up galaxies, so this goes to goku.



Stop being a tard. Goku has no feats that show that he can blow up a solar system let alone a galaxy


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## Havoc (Mar 30, 2007)

First you bumped an old thread, then you did so by posting an idiotic comment.  Good job.


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## Thanatos (Mar 30, 2007)

omgbbq said:


> hulk throwing a 150billion ton mountain is very impressive.  but goku can blow up galaxies, so this goes to goku.



Nobody likes a necroposter... let alone a biased one.


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## atom (Mar 30, 2007)

Why put Goku in a complete curbstomp. You should use Super Veggetto/ Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta... not that it would matter...


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## Enclave (Mar 30, 2007)

I haven't read this but it is fairly obvious that Hulk would rip Goku to pieces.

See Goku ALWAYS initially goes for the melee fighting at which point Hulk grabs him and tears his arms off.

Now before anybody claims that Goku is too fast for that to happen to Hulk bare in mind that Hulk has caught the likes of Silver Surfer and the only reason Parker is capable of avoiding Hulk is because of the Spider-Sense and not his speed.

Honestly, Goku is screwed.  Sure if he stood back and blasted away he would not lose (probably wouldn't win either) but he never does that he always always always goes for the melee at which point he dies.


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## Vynjira (Mar 30, 2007)

:Thunder: lap:

Dead Goku.


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## Lord Yu (Mar 30, 2007)

War Hulk Curbstomp


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## Random Nobody (Mar 30, 2007)

I'm gonna vote for War Hulk, I'm not a huge Hulk fan but I read some of the arguments for him and its been my experience that comic book characters are usually stronger than Manga characters.


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## killfox (Mar 31, 2007)

Gooba said:


> _*War Hulk, he regenerates so well he makes Buu look like a leper. *_


When was the last time the hulk got vaporized on the atomic level and regenerated?


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## Havoc (Mar 31, 2007)

When was the last time Buu got vaporized on the atomic level and regenerated?  What, never?  Oh yea, that's right.


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## ~Shin~ (Mar 31, 2007)

Hollow Ichigo said:


> When was the last time Buu got vaporized on the atomic level and regenerated?  What, never?  Oh yea, that's right.



This depends. I think some people are under the assumption that Spirit Bomb destroyed him at the atomic level.


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## Slips (Mar 31, 2007)

~Shin~ said:


> This depends. I think some people are under the assumption that Spirit Bomb destroyed him at the atomic level.



if thats what they are referring too then he certainly didnt regen after it.

I'm thinking they are talking about when Vegita did his suicide blow himself up routine. Without a helmet may I add the arrogent bastard had no respect for common health and safty


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## Vynjira (Mar 31, 2007)

War-Hulk wouldn't regen better than Buu we have only speculation his regen would be better and if War-Hulk took that kind of damage the celestial tech would be destroyed and he wouldn't be War-Hulk anymore. Furthermore he wouldn't have a brain and his anger would drop to null meaning lil to no regen.

Lastly I've never seen ANY Hulk regen back from one cell. Then again I don't believe many characters could reduce him to a mere cell. Cell's regen was better than ANY Hulk I doubt War-Hulk's would have regen better than Buu. 

Then again his durability makes up in large for that.


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## EvilMoogle (Mar 31, 2007)

Vynjira said:


> Lastly I've never seen ANY Hulk regen back from one cell. Then again I don't believe many characters could reduce him to a mere cell. Cell's regen was better than ANY Hulk I doubt War-Hulk's would have regen better than Buu.



Maestro Hulk regened from being totally destroyed.  But it took quite a long time (years of comics, not sure how much time passed in the MU.  I presume at least months).


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## Havoc (Mar 31, 2007)

Vynjira said:


> War-Hulk wouldn't regen better than Buu we have only speculation his regen would be better and if War-Hulk took that kind of damage the celestial tech would be destroyed and he wouldn't be War-Hulk anymore. *Furthermore he wouldn't have a brain and his anger would drop to null meaning lil to no regen.
> *
> Lastly I've never seen ANY Hulk regen back from one cell. Then again I don't believe many characters could reduce him to a mere cell. Cell's regen was better than ANY Hulk I doubt War-Hulk's would have regen better than Buu.
> 
> Then again his durability makes up in large for that.



You can't use logic when talking about Hulk, he transcends it.


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## Enclave (Mar 31, 2007)

Hollow Ichigo said:


> You can't use logic when talking about Hulk, he transcends it.



This is very true.  He has been reduced to a skeleton before and revived just fine.  Remember, if something reduces you to a skeleton odds are you have no brain left.


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## Banhammer (Mar 31, 2007)

Heh.. With the whole "Teleporting my ass out of here!"" And the ability to just, fly away from the fight, and plus, if he gets killed, he can just teleport himself back to earth, I would go with goku....


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## Havoc (Mar 31, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> Heh.. With the whole "Teleporting my ass out of here!"" And the ability to just, fly away from the fight, and plus, *if he gets killed, he can just teleport himself back to earth*, I would go with goku....



Doesn't work like that.  And if he runs, he looses.


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## Birkin (Mar 31, 2007)

Spirit Bomb is the way to go!


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## Thanatos (Mar 31, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> if he gets killed, he can just teleport himself back to earth...



In all of DBZ, Goku has never teleported himself out of the "next dimension" while being dead.

And the fact that he didn't do it even to fight Buu proves that he can't.


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## Bullet (Apr 1, 2007)

Final Ultima said:


> Which; in itself, is completely insane. Marvel creations are so proposterous, yet hilarious in their nigh-omnipotency.




What anime is that in your sig and avatar?


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