# So how much power increase Naruto gets from his modes?



## The Great One (Oct 29, 2017)

In DBZ Goku gets 50x power increase in his Ssj mode compare to this base, 100x in Ssj2 and 4xSsj 2 in Ssj 3.

So like that how much power increase Nauto gets from his mode compare to his Base.

Pre-Rikudou Naruto - SM, KCM, KCM2, BM compare to his Base.

Post-Rikudou Base compare to Pre-Rikudou Base.

Post-Rikudou Naruto - Semi-RSM, RSM, KCM+SM compare to his Base.


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## Crimson Flam3s (Oct 29, 2017)

However much the plot needs it to be.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Ashi (Oct 29, 2017)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> However much the plot needs it to be.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 29, 2017)

x3


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## Ultrafragor (Oct 29, 2017)

I feel like, if you went back and examined those power levels from DBZ, they wouldn't add up right.


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## Nuttynutdude (Oct 29, 2017)

Ultrafragor said:


> I feel like, if you went back and examined those power levels from DBZ, they wouldn't add up right.


It doesnt seem like it, but thats what we have to go by.


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## Nuttynutdude (Oct 29, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> In DBZ Goku gets 50x power increase in his Ssj mode compare to this base, 100x in Ssj2 and 4xSsj 2 in Ssj 3.
> 
> So like that how much power increase Nauto gets from his mode compare to his Base.
> 
> ...


SM is probably closer to 10-20 times base, KCM1 is about 2x stronger than that, and KCM2 is anywhere from slightly stronger to 5 times stronger than KCM1. BM? is this cloak/tailed cloak or full avatar? Full avatar isnt much stronger than KCM2 since its basically the same thing. cloak is just KCM without control

Base vs base? Post six paths base is stupid. He could probably fight on par with KCM2

Six paths sage mode was enough to one shot juubidara. His base is like 8 gates guy vs a genin. 
kcm six paths sage mode with sage mode stacked on top of that? The only ones matching/beating him are adult sasuke(no idea how he caught up, but ehh thats what it says) Kaguya, DMS Kakashi/Obito, fused Momoshiki, and Hagaromo. (arguably Juubito but we dont know how strong he is, and arguably Hamura but again, no scale of strength)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Oct 29, 2017)

Base Naruto can shatter stone while restrained (which is a better feat even than Kisame breaking out of wooden stocks) and fight Deva in CQC for a while evenly as of the pain arc. So using that as a baseline...

I would say mastered SM is like 5x (can now beat down high kage)

KCM is like 8x (can now beat down Kage and fight Madara with clones of his clones) 

BM is like 15x (can now beat down tailed beast casually)

Full avatar is like 20x (can now beat all the other tailed beast while trying not to hurt them much)

BSM is like 30x (can surpass the other Hokage and fight beings they know they would lose to. Edge of Otsutsuki clan level powers.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 29, 2017)

We already saw SM and KCM on Jiraya, Minato and Hashirama, so no there is no such a thing as an astronoical boost number.

If I was to quantify SM, then Pain Arc SM makes him 2/3 times stronger since he was already a Kage level in the immortal Arc, then KCM makes him 5/6 times stronger.


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## Nuttynutdude (Oct 29, 2017)

hbcaptain said:


> We already saw SM and KCM on Jiraya, Minato and Hashirama, so no there is no such a thing as an astronoical boost number.
> 
> If I was to quantify SM, then Pain Arc SM makes him 2/3 times stronger since he was already a Kage level in the immortal Arc, then KCM makes him 5/6 times stronger.


Now that i think about it, KCM is an additive, since Kurama's chakra is not infinite, while Sage mode is likely a mix of an additive and a multiplier. I dont think any boost in the series is a multiplier, since everything has limited chakra. You can only have so much sage energy, and all sage energy is the same. you cannot have more biju chakra than what the bijuu has, so hashi would not get any more out of it than Sakura would. They would both get the 9 Tails chakra. 4

As for sage mode, it is likely stronger for the stronger users, but not a multiplier as we think of it. It is probably a scaling additive.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 29, 2017)

Nuttynutdude said:


> Now that i think about it, KCM is an additive, since Kurama's chakra is not infinite, while Sage mode is likely a mix of an additive and a multiplier. I dont think any boost in the series is a multiplier, since everything has limited chakra. You can only have so much sage energy, and all sage energy is the same. you cannot have more biju chakra than what the bijuu has, so hashi would not get any more out of it than Sakura would. They would both get the 9 Tails chakra. 4


SM is a multiplier, if you went into a trip to see Jiraya's SM Jutsu description in the 3rd Databook you will understand why. And it's the same for Kyubi's chakra since it's far stronger than nearly anyone's chakra.
It applies even more to Minato or Jiraya since their base chakra is below base Naruto's.

As for Hashi', then I would say that KCM or BM won't have so much effect on him since his base chakra is already Kurama's level, especially KCM.


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 29, 2017)

(plot x how fucked naruto is without this mode)*π*²

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## The Great One (Oct 29, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> (plot x how fucked naruto is without this mode)*π*²


plot - Uchiha asspull = gg Uchiha.


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## Nuttynutdude (Oct 29, 2017)

hbcaptain said:


> SM is a multiplier, if you went into a trip to see Jiraya's SM Jutsu description in the 3rd Databook you will understand why. And it's the same for Kyubi's chakra since it's far stronger than nearly anyone's chakra.
> It applies even more to Minato or Jiraya since their base chakra is below base Naruto's.
> 
> As for Hashi', then I would say that KCM or BM won't have so much effect on him since his base chakra is already Kurama's level, especially KCM.


Well for 1, dont use the databook. Otherwise part 1 Neji is faster than Hiruzen.

Also, Naruto's sage mode is superior in every way to Jiraiya's because he is a perfect sage and jiraiya is not, and we don't know if Minato's is stronger, because we dont have any way to scale it. (he says he's bad, but 1. just because he never used it in combat doesnt mean hes not good at it. Naruto's first time using it in combat was against Pain. 2. He is already a perfect sage, which by definition means he is a master of it)

And the fact that you said Hashirama would not get that big of a boost from it already classifies it as an additive.


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 29, 2017)

Batzzaro29 said:


> plot - Uchiha asspull = gg Uchiha.


Because this has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with what you started the thread to talk about...


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## hbcaptain (Oct 30, 2017)

Nuttynutdude said:


> Well for 1, dont use the databook. Otherwise part 1 Neji is faster than Hiruzen.


I won't be so categorical, whilst it's strue some of Databook stats are laughable, it's not an enough reason to reject all its content. The world isnt either black or white and it still an official source.



> Also, Naruto's sage mode is superior in every way to Jiraiya's because he is a perfect sage and jiraiya is not, and we don't know if Minato's is stronger, because we dont have any way to scale it. (he says he's bad, but 1. just because he never used it in combat doesnt mean hes not good at it. Naruto's first time using it in combat was against Pain. 2. He is already a perfect sage, which by definition means he is a master of it)


Senjutsu strengh depends on the user's chakra, it's a mere balance between mental, physical and natural energy. Naruto's Senjutsu is said being better (not stronger) than Jiraya's because he has a better balance over the 3 energies.



> And the fact that you said Hashirama would not get that big of a boost from it already classifies it as an additive.


Well, it's additive, but Kyuubi's chakra is multiple times stronger than Base Naruto or base Minato (probably tens of hundreds of times), thus its effect is the same as a multiplicative move.
And its effect would be more visible on thos who has a weaker base chakra.


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## Nuttynutdude (Oct 30, 2017)

hbcaptain said:


> Senjutsu strengh depends on the user's chakra, it's a mere balance between mental, physical and natural energy. Naruto's Senjutsu is said being better (not stronger) than Jiraya's because he has a better balance over the 3 energies.


Well, you cant define how strong Sage mode for each user based on 2 different formes of it. That would be like saying Kyuubi chakra mode is different because Minato's version 2 KCM cloak is stronger than Naruto's version 1 KCM mode therefore its different for everyone.


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## King Ramirez (Oct 31, 2017)

Sage Mode - 5X
KCM - 7X
KCM2 - 15X 
BM - Base 45X
BSM - 60X
RSM - This is a divine state so saying 600+ times could be fair right?
Pose RSM base >=< BM


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## Nuttynutdude (Nov 1, 2017)

King Ramirez said:


> Sage Mode - 5X
> KCM - 7X
> KCM2 - 15X
> BM - Base 45X
> ...


I'm still thinking they're not multipliers. KCM is not strengthening your own chakra, it's merging the Kyuubi's with yours. Therefore there is a limited amount based on how strong the Kyuubi is, not how strong you are. Sage mode and all its variants are weird, but from what ive seen they should be a mixture of additive and multiplier, since Hashi's was stronger than everyone else's but Minato/Naruto's were the same, and Jiraiya's was weaker. It seems the be an additive, but there are stronger formes of it.


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## Ogihci Shirosaki (Nov 7, 2017)

It's strange to think Naruto punches a thousand times harder in SM.



Nuttynutdude said:


> I'm still thinking they're not multipliers. KCM is not strengthening your own chakra, it's merging the Kyuubi's with yours. Therefore there is a limited amount based on how strong the Kyuubi is, not how strong you are. Sage mode and all its variants are weird, but from what ive seen they should be a mixture of additive and multiplier, since Hashi's was stronger than everyone else's but Minato/Naruto's were the same, and Jiraiya's was weaker. It seems the be an additive, but there are stronger formes of it.



I agree with you in theory, but it's at least the easiest way to represent the difference in strength between his forms.

Sage Mode: 5x
Kyubi Chakra Mode: 7x
Kyubi Chakra Mode (post-571): 10x
Kurama Mode: 25x
Biju Mode: 100x
Biju Sage Mode: 150x to 500x*

*Logically he should be stronger but how much stronger? Going by the movie databook, it seems like an increase to sensory abilities and ninjutsu are his only gains when combing the powers. Even so, BSM Naruto (and BM Minato and Senjutsu Susanoo) caused some damage to Juubito's TSO shield.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## hbcaptain (Nov 7, 2017)

Nuttynutdude said:


> I'm still thinking they're not multipliers. KCM is not strengthening your own chakra, it's merging the Kyuubi's with yours. Therefore there is a limited amount based on how strong the Kyuubi is, not how strong you are. Sage mode and all its variants are weird, but from what ive seen they should be a mixture of additive and multiplier, since Hashi's was stronger than everyone else's but Minato/Naruto's were the same, and Jiraiya's was weaker. It seems the be an additive, but there are stronger formes of it.


Basically even tho you're right, Kyubi's chakra is multiple times stronger than you're in which case when it merge with your own chakra it acts as a multiplier.


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## omnipotenten20 (Nov 7, 2017)

It grows exponentially


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## Shazam (Nov 7, 2017)

My random uninformed guess ... 

SM looked like it made naruto ten fold stronger and more durable. 

KCM amped the speed by probably x20 and added intangible assets to his offense like increased chakra reserve and x5 more power 

BM amped all areas up from KCM by x10


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Nov 7, 2017)

I look at the size of narutos rasengans in order to estimate his overal strength. It should be noted that the size difference could be control related rather than power so it's not perfect  by any measure.  Also, I don't think that all stats get boosted the same way 

Sage Mode :His Senpo Odama rasengan is atleast 10x bigger than his regular Odama rasengan. Also, considering that he can launch hundreds of Senpo Odama rasengan, it's about as casual in sage mode, as it is in base. 

KCM: doesn't seem to boost Justu, only physical stats ( which is bizzare ) But, it clearly does. Kakashi tells us that a regular chakra cloak boosted his power 3-4 times. Now, we know that Naruto naturally has 3-4 times kakashi's chakra,- so a regular chakra cloak would double his power. 

How much stronger is KCM compared to a regular cloak? All we know is that Naruto can give out thousands of chakra cloaks, and still remain in BM. Meaning that the cloaks, represent a extremely small portion of kurumas chakras 

BM: is blatantly faster the KCM, but who knows by how much,  The biggest benefit for BM is getting access to bijudama + kuruma. It's a absurd boost, full power kuruma gives Naruto access to a chakra pool thousands of times greater than his own. Remember, a regular chakra cloak amped Kakashi to base Naruto chakra levels, Naruto gives out thousands of these cloaks. 

BSM: Totally undefined, impossible to tellZ. 

SPSM: Absurd. It's a similar power boost to becoming a juubi jink. A single bijudama  Rasenshuriken explosion is larger than the shinju stump ( which is larger then the crater a combined Kuruma + Killer B made). And naruto can fire 6 without any fatigue. 

I don't know the multiplier- but it's obscene- it makes Gais 100 fold multiplier look like shit.


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## Nuttynutdude (Nov 7, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> I look at the size of narutos rasengans in order to estimate his overal strength. It should be noted that the size difference could be control related rather than power so it's not perfect  by any measure.  Also, I don't think that all stats get boosted the same way
> 
> Sage Mode :His Senpo Odama rasengan is atleast 10x bigger than his regular Odama rasengan. Also, considering that he can launch hundreds of Senpo Odama rasengan, it's about as casual in sage mode, as it is in base.
> 
> ...


Well, SPSM is what propelled Naruto from mid kage level(without kyuubi) to literal god tier above Juubito.


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## Nuttynutdude (Nov 7, 2017)

Ogihci Shirosaki said:


> It's strange to think Naruto punches a thousand times harder in SM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well with sage mode, considering how complicated i'm theorizing it to be, yeah lets just use a multiplier. With KCM/BSM, i would use just the person + Kyuubi chakra. So like fkin Konohamaru would be fodder +1 /2 Kyuubi


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