# Strongest person Minato can beat.(Chapter 665 Spoilers)



## Bonly (Feb 19, 2014)

Yeah yeah yeah we all know someone was gonna make this thread eventually, lets just get it out of the way now.

Location: Sannin Battle Field 
Distance: 20 meters
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions: Minato doesn't have access to Kurama here and is alive.


So who do you think is the strongest person he can beat now?


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## Psp123789 (Feb 19, 2014)

Probably Nagato. I must say this is some random ass shit.


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## Wolfstein (Feb 19, 2014)

I'll tell you one damn thing. . . Itachi VS Minato can be discarded 

VS suggests that both sides have an equal chance 

The strongest. Maybe EMS Mads? Depends on if he whips out any SM offensive H4X. Not really good at these types of threads so meh *shrugs*


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## Kai (Feb 19, 2014)

With the new SM revelation, you can bet your mothers that Itachi fans will cling to the ends of the earth that he is above base Minato.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Feb 19, 2014)

Well Itachi vs alive Minato is no longer a debate. Not sure who the strongest he can beat is, but he definitely went up several spots.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Feb 19, 2014)

What about Minato vs. Tobirama?


*OT:* Probably Nagato or KCM Naruto.


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## Alex Payne (Feb 19, 2014)

Itachi/Tobirama/Nagato. Depending on who do you believe is stronger. 

Still don't think he can consistently beat Kyubiless EMS Madara even with SM retcon.

KCM Naruto too, yeah. And SM Kabuto.

Basically he is only below Madara and Hashirama now imo.


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## Chad (Feb 19, 2014)

A senjutsu Rasengan that didn't even kill Kakashi, automatically makes Minato a tier higher all of the sudden? 

Bullshit, he's barely any different than before. Just better reactions.


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## Jad (Feb 19, 2014)

This is where I put Minato in my Tier List;



> *Creator*
> 1. Rikudo Sennin [Confirmed Dead]
> 
> *Kishimoto's Strong Right Arm*
> ...





So you tell me, who else is there left he can beat.......?


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## Alex Payne (Feb 19, 2014)

Astral said:


> A senjutsu Rasengan that didn't even kill  Kakashi, automatically makes Minato a tier higher all of the sudden?
> 
> Bullshit, he's barely any different than before. Just better reactions.


Kakashi is simply incredibly tough 



Jad said:


> This is where I put Minato in my Tier List;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SM Minato vs Rinnegan Obito is pretty close. Minato's skillset counters Obito well.


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## Coppur (Feb 19, 2014)

I think he can potentially defeat Nagato, but they are equal in power.


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## Wolfstein (Feb 19, 2014)

Astral said:


> A senjutsu Rasengan that didn't even kill Kakashi, automatically makes Minato a tier higher all of the sudden?
> 
> Bullshit, he's barely any different than before. Just better reactions.



It is only speculation that his rasengan was senjutsu enhanced. He may have had another motive for activating SM. Also, after the arm was dislodged shouldn't that have technically halted the flow of sage chakra into the technique?


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Feb 19, 2014)

I highly doubt the rasengan was even enhanced by senjutsu as it grows larger when it is as shown when Naruto and Jiraiya both did it. Minato's didn't.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 19, 2014)

Jad said:


> This is where I put Minato in my Tier List;
> 
> [/COLOR]
> 
> ...



Well current Naruto is on hand operated life support, so I guess you can move him up one more slot.


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## Alex Payne (Feb 19, 2014)

Rikudo Madara can only be damaged by Senjutsu. That's why Minato used SM before attacking. His Rasengan was obviously enhanced. SM Naruto used normal-sized Rasengans against Asura, Animal and Hell Realms.


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## Wolfstein (Feb 19, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Rikudo Madara can only be damaged by Senjutsu. That's why Minato used SM before attacking. His Rasengan was obviously enhanced. SM Naruto used normal-sized Rasengans against Asura, Animal and Hell Realms.



Taking that into account... would it even be possible for Minato's rasengan to retain senjutsu qualities after being disconnected from him? (unless infusing jutsu with sage chakra works differently than I think it does)


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## Bansai (Feb 19, 2014)

I'd go with Itachi. Nagato may be on the same level, but his ability to absorb Ninjutsu is extremely troublesome. It wouldn't be if Minato was mainly a Taijutsu combatant, but his strongest and most impressive attacks are Ninjutsu, meaning that Minato couldn't go all out in a fight against Nagato.


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## Alex Payne (Feb 19, 2014)

Wolfstein said:


> Taking that into account... would it even be  possible for Minato's rasengan to retain senjutsu qualities after being  disconnected from him? (unless infusing jutsu with sage chakra works  differently than I think it does)



SM Naruto throws Futon: Rasenshuriken and it's obviously retains SM-charge. Same with Gamakichi's Oil Blast. Rasengan itself might be beginning to disappear after the arm was severed but considering the speed of the exchange(Madara's insane speed, Kakashi's inability to react) I don't think that it lost much power.


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## Trojan (Feb 19, 2014)

thank you Bonly, you saved me the time. lol

Now, I think he is stronger than Nagato. U_U


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## Wolfstein (Feb 19, 2014)

alex payne said:


> SM Naruto throws Futon: Rasenshuriken and it's obviously retains SM-charge. Same with Gamakichi's Oil Blast. Rasengan itself might be beginning to disappear after the arm was severed but considering the speed of the exchange(Madara's insane speed, Kakashi's inability to react) I don't think that it lost much power.



Agreed, perfect example. . .hadn't thought about FRS, which is obviously launched and  maintains sage chakra.

Either Kakashi has the durability of a 1,000 slaves.
or
PIS 

It doesn't make much sense to me how a Senjutsu Rasengan did as much damage as a standard rasengan would. Come on Kishi


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## Nikushimi (Feb 19, 2014)

Wolfstein said:


> At arms men!
> 
> The Nikushimi is coming
> 
> ...



Heralding my arrival like a true badass. :ignoramus



Astral said:


> A senjutsu Rasengan that didn't even kill Kakashi, automatically makes Minato a tier higher all of the sudden?
> 
> Bullshit, he's barely any different than before. Just better reactions.



^This.

Just like KCM, SM really doesn't do anything significant for Minato--just a lot of redundant improvements he didn't need before.

More stamina? He already had a lot of stamina.
Greater strength? Minato was never physically weak, but SM strength doesn't count for much against opponents that matter, either.
Greater speed/reaction time? The guy can already teleport.
Greater durability? See the previous item on this list.
Ninjutsu power enhancement? Outside of Bijuu Mode, Minato's strongest Ninjutsu is Rasengan, and that's not very impressive even with Senjutsu (just ask Kakashi's chest).

Minato's still vulnerable to Tsukuyomi; nothing's changed.

The strongest he can beat are Itachi and Nagato, and they can beat him as well (excluding Bijuu Mode, obviously).


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Feb 19, 2014)

Wolfstein said:


> Agreed, perfect example. . .hadn't thought about FRS, which is obviously launched and  maintains sage chakra.
> 
> Either Kakashi has the durability of a 1,000 slaves.
> or
> ...



Can't have Kakashi dying on us.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 19, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Rikudo Madara can only be damaged by Senjutsu. That's why Minato used SM before attacking. His Rasengan was obviously enhanced. SM Naruto used normal-sized Rasengans against Asura, Animal and Hell Realms.



Minato is a genius that can even remember plot points from fifteen Kishi chapters ago - an often overlooked feat of intelligence.


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## Wolfstein (Feb 19, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Can't have Kakashi dying on us.



Yeah we can't afford for the battlefield to be filled with fuck ups and failures (Minato & Sakura).


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## Wolfstein (Feb 19, 2014)

Pro tip Minato, think before you act.

If it wasn't capable of piercing Kakashi's skin...

*HOW THE FUCK WOULD IT EVEN BEGIN TO DENT RIKUDO  MADARA?*

What lying friend called this man a genius?


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## Alex Payne (Feb 19, 2014)

Lol, Niku.

Sage Mode made Naruto who had above average speed and reactions into a speedster with top tier reactions. Now take legendary speedster and boost his abilities at the same extent. Only someone like Rikudo Madara can successfully counter SM Minato's speed. Constant sensing+Hiraishin+SM danger sensing+ability to spam Hiraishin = gg. Itachi ain't landing Tsukuyomi.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Feb 19, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Lol, Niku.
> 
> Sage Mode made Naruto who had above average speed and reactions into a speedster with top tier reactions. Now take legendary speedster and boost his abilities at the same extent. Only someone like Rikudo Madara can successfully counter SM Minato's speed. Constant sensing+Hiraishin+SM danger sensing+ability to spam Hiraishin = gg. Itachi ain't landing Tsukiyomi.



Not to mention SM shadow clones spamming large ass rasengans.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 19, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Lol, Niku.
> 
> Sage Mode made Naruto who had above average speed and reactions into a speedster with top tier reactions. Now take legendary speedster and boost his abilities at the same extent. Only someone like Rikudo Madara can successfully counter SM Minato's speed. Constant sensing+Hiraishin+SM danger sensing+ability to spam Hiraishin = gg. Itachi ain't landing Tsukiyomi.



When you can already teleport from Point A to Point B instantaneously, more speed is completely meaningless; you don't get any faster than instantaneous.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Feb 19, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> When you can already teleport from Point A to Point B instantaneously, more speed is completely meaningless; you don't get any faster than instantaneous.



It's actually not considering Minato needs kunai/seals to teleport. If he could do so without them then I'd agree, but being able to move at such a ridiculous speed without the need for kunai and seals makes it much tougher for one to counter Minato. Add Hiraishin with that and you're going to have a shit load of trouble not getting blitzed.


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## Trojan (Feb 19, 2014)

what's funny with itachi's fans is the fact that they can never accept anything against him.

they were saying itachi is stronger or on the same level with Minato even before he got ET'd. Then the guy
started to show

Clones, Sensing, KCM, BM, SM, 4suns barrier...etc
and still all of that is not enough, as if they are non-factor. lol


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## Legendary Itachi (Feb 19, 2014)

I think Minato should get a high nerf of intelligence from now on instead of the asspull powerups he keeps gaining, but then a Senjutsu can't kill Kakashi.

OT: KCM Naruto, I don't see how he can defeat Nagato still.


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## Rain (Feb 19, 2014)

There ain't a damn thing he can to do Itachi's Susano'o even with SM.

Plus the guy ain't very bright either.

Yeah, Itachi still mid-diffs.


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## Tengu (Feb 19, 2014)

SM doesn't changes anything when it comes to genjutsu, which is was Itachi's best way to defeat Minato.


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## ARGUS (Feb 19, 2014)

Alive SM Minato still cant beat Nagato,,,, 
Fukasaku did mention that naruto has surpassed jiraiya and minato in terms of SM usage,, 
with that being said its possible that Minatos usage in SM is not perfected and at best is slightly higher than Jiraiya,,, theres a reason why Minato never ever used SM even while fighting juubito (he even knew that only senjutsu works) theres a legitimate reason behind it,,,
why hasnt he ever used SM until now?????? 
we cant jus immediately assume that Minato is better than naruto in terms of SM,,, 
massive rasengans were easily absorbed by preta,, i dont see nagato being turned into a stone against SM Minato
realistically speaking minato is likely to not even use SM in battle,,, and we need more info to make a precise judgement

i would say that strongest Alive Minato can beat is possibly Kabuto,, 
maybe maybe Sasuke or Nagato under extremely favourable conditions
BSM Minato can beat all except Madara and Hashirama


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## Alex Payne (Feb 19, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> When you can already teleport from Point A to Point B instantaneously, more speed is completely meaningless; you don't get any faster than instantaneous.


Err, no. Minato's Hiraishin(and S/T in general) is tied to reactions and perception. You can give Part 1 Sakura Minato's Hiraishin mastery and she is still going to get blitzed by fast Jonins without being able to activate it. SM Minato with enhanced stats can both utilize Hiraishin better and use it more often/freely. And more KBs.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Feb 19, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Alive SM Minato still cant beat Nagato,,,,
> Fukasaku did mention that naruto has surpassed jiraiya and minato in terms of SM usage,,
> with that being said its possible that Minatos usage in SM is not perfected and at best is slightly higher than Jiraiya,,, theres a reason why Minato never ever used SM even while fighting juubito (he even knew that only senjutsu works) theres a legitimate reason behind it,,,
> why hasnt he ever used SM until now??????
> ...



You do realize his SM looks exactly like Naruto's, right? Fukasaku already admitted Naruto's SM look was an indication of a perfected SM. If his mastery over it was similar to Jiraiya then his SM look would reflect it. It clearly does not.


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## ARGUS (Feb 19, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> You do realize his SM looks exactly like Naruto's, right? Fukasaku already admitted Naruto's SM look was an indication of a perfected SM. If his mastery over it was similar to Jiraiya then his SM look would reflect it. It clearly does not.



Jiraiyas SM look in the eyes wasnt much different to both of these guys either,he had darkened pigments near his eyes as well as the frog pupils,,either way fukasaku did state that naruto has surpassed both of these guys,, So Narutos SM > Minatos,


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## Alex Payne (Feb 19, 2014)

Minato didn't even have SM like 20 chapters ago. Fukusaku's statement doesn't mean anything.


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## ARGUS (Feb 19, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Minato didn't even have SM like 20 chapters ago. Fukusaku's statement doesn't mean anything.



Thats what i dont understand,,, 
realistically theres no way minato has jus learned in 10 minutes while fighting BZ,, 
so thats why im assuming that he already had it while he was alive,,thus making fukasaku staatement relevant in a sense that Naruto Sm is superior


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Feb 19, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Jiraiyas SM look in the eyes wasnt much different to both of these guys either,he had darkened pigments near his eyes as well as the frog pupils,,either way fukasaku did state that naruto has surpassed both of these guys,, So Narutos SM > Minatos,



Um, yes it did. 

Jiraiya's:



Naruto and Minato's:


*Spoiler*: __ 









The pigmentation and frog pupils are different. And as Alex said, the statement means nothing at this point seeing as Fukasaku also mentioned Naruto and Jiraiya were the only 2 who learned SM yet here we see Minato with it. Retcons happen.


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## Alex Payne (Feb 19, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Thats what i dont understand,,,
> realistically theres no way minato has jus learned in 10 minutes while fighting BZ,,
> so thats why im assuming that he already had it while he was alive,,thus making fukasaku staatement relevant in a sense that Naruto Sm is superior


The point is Kishimoto himself didn't plan for Minato to have SM. Fought Obito+Kyubi - no SM, fought after being resurrected - no SM. When SM was really needed - asked Naruto to help. Only now when plot called - SM appeared. Kishi doesn't plan ahead properly, he even said so in the interview. So that old Fukusaku's statement is meaningless.


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## ki0 (Feb 19, 2014)

I don't think this changes the match-up between Itachi and Minato. Madara was able to react to a hirashin SM speed blitz with just his sharingan reflexes.


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## ARGUS (Feb 19, 2014)

alex payne said:


> The point is Kishimoto himself didn't plan for Minato to have SM. Fought Obito+Kyubi - no SM, fought after being resurrected - no SM. When SM was really needed - asked Naruto to help. Only now when plot called - SM appeared. Kishi doesn't plan ahead properly, he even said so in the interview. So that old Fukusaku's statement is meaningless.



ur right about that,,, but this is a total asspull 
hes literally jus doin it to awaken the minato fanbase ahahahaaa 




ki0 said:


> I don't think this in changes the match-up between Itachi and Minato. Madara was able to react to a hirashin SM speed blitz with just his sharingan reflexes.



No sharingan reflexes cannot react to something as fast as FTG,, it was Hashiramas SM reflexes that allowed Madara to evade Tobiramas attack,,, i wont even get to the Itachi vs Minato match-up


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 19, 2014)

Minato hid his sage mode and all traces of self-teaching it to himself because he didn't want to make Jiraiya feel bad.  It's his "that jutsu."

But yeah, it's a retcon.  He was never supposed to have it, and then Kishi changed his mind.  Probably when he realized Minato wouldn't attack Madara without a means to hurt him, or a boost that would make him think he could fight super Mads, and he already took away the kyuubi.  So that left him with senjutsu.


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## Jad (Feb 19, 2014)

Thunder said:


> Minato also has Mokuton and the Rinnegan. Probably. Just wait a few more chapters.



Minato can probably open the Gates to, up to and including the 8th without dieing (edo or not)...


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## Ghost (Feb 19, 2014)

Minato's stats didn't improve at all from what we saw in the latest chapter and his Rasengan failed to kill Kakashi. If the obvious fanservice Sage Mode turns out to give comparable boost to Naruto's then Minato should be able to defeat Itachi 10/10 and Nagato.

If Minato is able to use Sage Mode then why the fuck didn't he use it against Obito 16 years ago? Minato isn't cocky or anything. He thought he was against Uchiha Madara (and kinda was). Surely Minato we know wouldn't fuck around. 

or Minato wasn't able to use SM effectively while he was alive (took too long or was imperfect) and now as Edo he can. Still, Minato should've used Sage Mode way earlier in this fight. If Itachi haters think Izanami was bad I'd love to see them explain this shitty last minute fanservice. Minato went from mediocre+ to shit tier character this week.





Elia said:


> what's funny with itachi's fans is the fact that they can never accept anything against him.


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



> they were saying itachi is stronger or on the same level with Minato even before he got ET'd. Then the guy
> started to show
> Clones, Sensing, KCM, BM, SM, 4suns barrier...etc
> and still all of that is not enough, as if they are non-factor. lol



-snip-


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## ARGUS (Feb 19, 2014)

Thunder said:


> Minato also has Mokuton and the Rinnegan. Probably. Just wait a few more chapters.



Minato can use kamui,,, has the juubi,, and was the creator of the moon unlike the SO6P,, jus wait a few chapters


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## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

LOL @ some Itachi fans starting damage control. 
Don't worry Pre SM and sensing alive Minato was already above Itachi.

Alive Minato was even against Nagato. SM buffs makes alive Minato comfortably above Nagato. Minato now has enhanced sensing, strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, durability and frog kata.



saikyou said:


> Minato's stats didn't improve at all from what we saw in the latest chapter and his Rasengan failed to kill Kakashi. If the obvious fanservice Sage Mode turns out to give comparable boost to Naruto's then Minato should be able to defeat Itachi 10/10 and Nagato.



He's facing Juubi jin Madara with SM and Rinnegan, the strongest character by far we've seen so no shit SM looks mediocre in front of that, he's not going to display the full extent of his SM in a couple panels. Except it left a hole in Kakashi's chest and that Rasengan wasn't even thrusted at him or held on to him like it usually would be. Atleast unlike others you don't deny facts.



> If Minato is able to use Sage Mode then why the fuck didn't he use it against Obito 16 years ago? Minato isn't cocky or anything. He thought he was against Uchiha Madara (and kinda was). Surely Minato we know wouldn't fuck around.





Minato did this to "Madara" without SM and sent him running. only Kyuubi gave Minato trouble and SM wouldn't have helped him there.



> or Minato wasn't able to use SM effectively while he was alive (took too long or was imperfect) and now as Edo he can. Still, Minato should've used Sage Mode way earlier in this fight. If Itachi haters think Izanami was bad I'd love to see them explain this shitty last minute fanservice. Minato went from mediocre+ to shit tier character this week.



Being an edo doesnt alter the use of SM. he probably couldn't use it earlier because unlike Naruto, his Kurama wouldn't let him and he needed the kyuubi buff to save the alliance from Juubito.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.


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## richard lewis (Feb 19, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Thats what i dont understand,,,
> realistically theres no way minato has jus learned in 10 minutes while fighting BZ,,
> so thats why im assuming that he already had it while he was alive,,thus making fukasaku staatement relevant in a sense that Naruto Sm is superior



when did fukasaku say naruto was the greatest SM user or anything along that line? all he said was that naruto was a better sage than jiraiya, he made no reference to minato at all. how does that equate to naruto's SM being better than minato's?



alex payne said:


> Minato didn't even have SM like 20 chapters ago. Fukusaku's statement doesn't mean anything.



Minato gaing SM was indeed a massive asspull lol


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## Atlantic Storm (Feb 19, 2014)

I figured Minato just taught himself how to do it after watching Naruto.


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## richard lewis (Feb 19, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Minato's stats didn't improve at all from what we saw in the latest chapter and his Rasengan failed to kill Kakashi. If the obvious fanservice Sage Mode turns out to give comparable boost to Naruto's then Minato should be able to defeat Itachi 10/10 and Nagato.



How do you know minato's stats didn't improve? C'mon, that's ridiculous and you know, he got raped b/c he was up against freaking madara, this is the same guy who raped EMS sasuke and all 9 buju and that was w/o the juuibi. As for minato's rasengan not killing kakashi, how do you even know what kakashi's condition is? he could very well be dead for all you know, and if he isn't dead I'm sure he's on the verge of death.



saikyou said:


> If Minato is able to use Sage Mode then why the fuck didn't he use it against Obito 16 years ago? Minato isn't cocky or anything. He thought he was against Uchiha Madara (and kinda was). Surely Minato we know wouldn't fuck around.



Gee...... maybe b/c kishi hadn't thought of it yet! I think it's pretty obvious that kishi was sitting round last week and said "hey I'm just going to give minato SM w/o any explanation as to how or when he learned it" it's a freaking ass pull man lol. 



saikyou said:


> or Minato wasn't able to use SM effectively while he was alive (took too long or was imperfect) and now as Edo he can. Still, Minato should've used Sage Mode way earlier in this fight. If Itachi haters think Izanami was bad I'd love to see them explain this shitty last minute fanservice. Minato went from mediocre+ to shit tier character this week.



This makes no sense, it has been clearly pointed out that edo's are weaker than their living form. So why would a weaker version of minato be able to enter SM but his stronger living version could not? Just think about that for a second, lol.

BTW I agree with you that minato's SM was a last minute asspull



Atlantic Storm said:


> I figured Minato just taught himself how to do it after watching Naruto.



I don't even think that's possible though, he must have had some formal training in it's use.


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## Atlantic Storm (Feb 19, 2014)

Kakashi was shown getting up from the attack perfectly fine. I'm assuming it's just a case of inconsistency, or the rasengan not having had enough momentum to have maximum damage, since it was just the end of Minato's severed arm that hit him. Either way, the jutsu barely did anything to him.


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## Darth Niggatron (Feb 19, 2014)

Blind SM Madara, probably.


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## Darth Niggatron (Feb 19, 2014)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Kakashi was shown getting up from the attack perfectly fine. I'm assuming it's just a case of inconsistency, or the rasengan not having had enough momentum to have maximum damage, since it was just the end of Minato's severed arm that hit him. Either way, the jutsu barely did anything to him.



That, or Kakashi's just damn durable.
Plot helps too.


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## Atlantic Storm (Feb 19, 2014)

Kakashi's stats have been all over the place recently, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is just his actual durability now. The guy got impaled through the chest with a giant kunai and just stitched it back up without bleeding to death, and still had the stamina to warp his entire body back onto the battlefield.


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## Darth Niggatron (Feb 19, 2014)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Kakashi's stats have been all over the place recently, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is just his actual durability now. The guy got impaled through the chest with a giant kunai and just stitched it back up without bleeding to death, and still had the stamina to warp his entire body back onto the battlefield.



The whole point.
People like to point out Minato's rasengan didn't rockrape Kakashi when it's possible that it's Kakashi who had a durability bump.


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## richard lewis (Feb 19, 2014)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Kakashi was shown getting up from the attack perfectly fine. I'm assuming it's just a case of inconsistency, or the rasengan not having had enough momentum to have maximum damage, since it was just the end of Minato's severed arm that hit him. Either way, the jutsu barely did anything to him.



sorry, I missed that panel when I first read the chapter "just looked over it again". But yea I mean considering part 1 naruto was able to put down kabuto with a much weaker rasengan, minato base rasengan should be able to kill/heavily wound kakashi with a direct hit, I mean it blew obito's arm off. So how he shrugged off an SM rasengan is beyond me. Honestly I don't really think kishi cares any more lol, doesn't he have a new manga that he's working on? he probably just want's to finish naruto so he can work on that.


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## lathia (Feb 19, 2014)

In base form OP? Definitely Itachi.

In SM / KCM / BM is kind of hard to judge.


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## Darth Niggatron (Feb 19, 2014)

Lol@your sig.
Well played indeed.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 19, 2014)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Kakashi's stats have been all over the place recently, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is just his actual durability now. The guy got impaled through the chest with a giant kunai and just stitched it back up without bleeding to death, and still had the stamina to warp his entire body back onto the battlefield.



Kakashi got slashed up with giant shuriken, got one stuck in his leg, and then got kneed in the face with extreme prejudice before out-doing Obito and getting the giant stab wound he patched up with first aid.  So maybe.


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## Ghost (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> LOL @ some Itachi fans starting damage control.


Damage control? Minato fans had Kishi taking a major shit on their favorite character.


> Don't worry Pre SM and sensing alive Minato was already above Itachi.


Except he wasn't.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Feb 19, 2014)

I'm curious as to what SM does for Minato. 

First and foremost, Minato's problem has and still is LACK of offensive jutsu. SM bring sensing and what else? Super strength? Frog Kata's? He used a kunai before. And still seems to prefer using a rasengan.

So please, oh please Naruto forums, tell me who you think the strongest person Minato could beat. Note that SM is a buffer. The best application of SM is enhancing the potency of your offensive jutsu. Yet Minato lacks many offensive options. How does this revelation due much for his power level? 
Especially given the fact that Harashin has lost some steam due too bad showcasings from it's users.

Note that I don't think any less of Minato. 
I still think there is more to his arsenal than what he has shown. I just wish Kishi stop wasting time giving him the WRONG development. I want more none rasengan based techniques.


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## Azula (Feb 19, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Harashin has lost some steam due too bad showcasings from it's users.



sure 

only jutsu that allowed the alliance to land hits on juubi jinchuriki *thrice*

only jutsu that saved the alliance *twice*


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Feb 19, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> I'm curious as to what SM does for Minato.
> 
> First and foremost, Minato's problem has and still is LACK of offensive jutsu. SM bring sensing and what else? Super strength? Frog Kata's? He used a kunai before. And still seems to prefer using a rasengan.
> 
> ...



Gives him greater durability as well, though in terms of practical application, this doesn't really mean much. Nobody can really hit him anyway, and the people who can are more than capable of one shotting him if given a direct hit. You can argue that his hiraishin might be more effective due to sage-sensing granting a degree of precognition, though.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 19, 2014)

Base Minato is stronger than people like Jiraiya, Tobirama, itachi..etc
SM Minato is stronger than Pain, Nagato...etc
KCM Minato more or less the same. 
BM Minato is stronger than people like BM Naruto perhaps. 
BSM Minato is stronger than BSM Naruto, Hashirama...etc 
(even though I think BM is more than enough for Hashi with the fact that it supported by S/T jutsus)

****
What I liked the most is how Kishi still compare Naruto to Minato from the very start of the manga up until now, unlike what some other people think that kishi compare Naruto to Hashirama. lol 
*Spoiler*: __ 





1- at the very start Naruto mentioned Minato between all the Hokages.
2- When Jman taught him the summoning jutsu and compared him to Minato.
3- When Jman taught him the rasengan
4- when Tsunade compared him to Minato
5- Naruto looking up to his father before leaving the village.

6- when he learned FRS.
7- When he learned SM
8- B compared him to his father with KCM
9- they did the same thing when he out speed A.
10- When he received BM, kakashi compared him to Minato.

11- When he gave his chakra to the SA. 
12, 13, 14- kishi gave Minato KCM, BM, SM. 
15- they both lost Kurama around the same time. 



I hope kishi continue with that. XD


----------



## Miyamoto Musashi (Feb 19, 2014)

I honestly don't think Minato can fuse Bijū Mode with Sage Mode. It's pretty much the only logical explanation for this page.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 19, 2014)

Kai Jr. said:


> I honestly don't think Minato can fuse Bijū Mode with Sage Mode. It's pretty much the only logical explanation for this page.



kishi does not need/use logic. Sad, but true. U_U


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Feb 19, 2014)

I don't buy that. He shows the perfect Sage eye symbol as Naruto, he can sync with Yin Kirama perfectly as Naruto. There is no reason why he can't fuse Sage Mode with Bijuu Mode, given Minato likely has better chakra control than Naruto.

Then one should wonder why he never uses Sage Mode against Tobi and Black Zetsu, unless Minato is the reckless and cocky type.

It's a recton, no logic is needed.


----------



## ueharakk (Feb 19, 2014)

I think it's possible that minato might not even be able to use SM on his own, but rather retained some of naruto's sennin mode chakra from the time their chakra's were connected, and used it for an instant there, kind of like what madara did with hashirama's chakra.

What inclines me to postulate this is minato's statement *back here* which implies that minato himself is incapable of sennin mode especially if he refers to Jiraiya despite Minato displaying a superior form of sennin mode in this recent chapter.  That statement was made less than 25 chapters ago, so to me it's to early for a retcon.  

So basically, while i don't deny the possibility of him being able to use senjutsu on his own (since at this point any kind of powerup is possible for any character), I would refrain from making a conclusion on that in hopes of later information would shed more light on the issue.  If we don't get any more info, then I'd say he's capable of doing it on his own though.

As for the thread, if living Minato is given SM, he can probably beat people like prime nagato.  Although SM is a massive powerup, i'm not sure if minato's fighting style would benefit the most from its use.


----------



## Turrin (Feb 19, 2014)

SM Minato w/o Kyuubi chakra is probably around the level of these guys/gals:

1, Kushina
2. Obito (Rinnegan)
3. Nagato 
4. Kabuto (Edo Tensei Stocked)
5. Orochimaru (Edo Tensei Stocked)
6. Tobirama (Edo Tensei Stocked)
7. Naruto (KCM & KCSM)
8. Sasuke (EMS)

So the strongest he can beat is probably one of them. And if it's IC for him to summon Ma/Pa to fuse or use Frog Song ever, his odds here are even better.

SM Minato however is still beneath the level of Hashirama and EMS Madara though. Which makes sense as one has to remember he still needed help w/ Obito + Kyuubi, so he's not stepping to EMS Madara > Obito + Kurama.

BSM Minato on the other hand can potentially be up there w/ EMS Madara or Hashirama or even stronger at this point., especially again if he fused and used Frog Song


----------



## Master Sephiroth (Feb 19, 2014)

I would put SM Minato a step/half step below solo mode Nagato.


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

You also need massive chakra reserves to go into SM.



There goes the Minato has small chakra pool argument. BAMFlash for days.


----------



## ZE (Feb 19, 2014)

Naruto went from jounin level to kage level after obtaining SM
Kabuto went from jounin level to kage level 
Hashirama went from EMS Madara level, to God level 

So Minato, who was kage level before SM, should now be above that


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

ZE said:


> Naruto went from jounin level to kage level after obtaining SM
> Kabuto went from jounin level to kage level
> Hashirama went from EMS Madara level, to God level
> 
> So Minato, who was kage level before SM, should now be above that



Apparently the Minato hate club believes only his eyes changed. 

hahaha, Dat Minato.


----------



## Jak N Blak (Feb 19, 2014)

BM Naruto.


----------



## Turrin (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> Apparently the Minato hate club believes only his eyes changed.
> 
> hahaha, Dat Minato.



Yeah this is so stupid to me. SM is one of the 5 main ultimate powers in the manga wielded by the Sage:

1. Hax'd Dojutsu
2. Uzamaki Chains/ Fuuinjutsu
3. Bijuu Powers
4. Senjutsu
5. Kekkai Tota

You command a high level of mastery of 1 of those powers and basically only people with 1 or more of those abilities, can beat you, with an exception of some of the very exceptional Kage Class Shinobi who are absolute beasts such as Prime Tobirama. You have 2 or more of those abilities, and even guys like Prime Tobirama's chances of winning start to diminish and basically only others w/ the 5 main abilities stand any chances (and usually those w/ 2 are required to stand a chance). Than when you have 3 abilities your basically fucked RT Madara level.

Minato in life had 2 of these abilities SM + Uzamaki Fuuinjutsu. In Death he has shown 2 Bijuu + SM, and might have a third via Uzamaki Fuuinjutsu, but i'm personally curious if Edo's can't use Uzamaki Fuuinjutsu due to lacking life energy. But if that's not the case than Minato has 3 of these 5 abilities and is essentially close to RT Madara level and only the Juubi Jins are superior to him, which is just utterly fucked.


----------



## 311998 (Feb 19, 2014)

At his prime,
he could defeat itachi if he only had one intention i.e. To kill


----------



## Garcher (Feb 19, 2014)

He is right under Sick Itachi, so he can fight Tobirama with 50/50 win ratio


----------



## Odie Esty (Feb 19, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> I'm curious as to what SM does for Minato.
> 
> First and foremost, Minato's problem has and still is LACK of offensive jutsu.



See, I don't think this is necessarily true. He's got a smaller movepool but that doesn't translate to low power level, seeing as he's got roughly the same amount of techniques as Naruto. His entire fighting style is based on speed and rasengan's supplementing his normal hits, effectively making every hit a super punch. While strength augments won't do much for him, the increase in speed will making him virtually unhitable, and the sensing will effectively make it impossible to sneak on him. This coupled with what we've seen Naruto do in Sage Mode, and he would have effectively limitless chakra since he won't be dishing out Rasenshurikens on the regular. He's a pretty tough friend.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 19, 2014)

I thought Itachi was stronger than Minato beforehand, and Senjutsu doesn't benefit the guy like it does with Jiraiya or his son; he doesn't have many techniques for amplification.
...and Kakashi tanked his SM Rasengan; it's weak.

Canonically, he was already known to be a sensor, and any speed enhancement is going to be negligible.


----------



## larryjc (Feb 19, 2014)

minato can go toe to toe with anyone in the series. but strongest he can beat should be hiruzen sarutobi


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> I thought Itachi was stronger than Minato beforehand, and Senjutsu doesn't benefit the guy like it does with Jiraiya or his son; he doesn't have many techniques for amplification.
> ...and Kakashi tanked his SM Rasengan; it's weak.
> 
> Canonically, he was already known to be a sensor, and any speed enhancement is going to be negligible.



Are you trolling?



> *King Itachi*



Now it makes sense.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> Are you trolling?
> 
> 
> 
> Now it makes sense.



Change your avatar/signature before making dumb comments, hypocrite.


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Change your avatar/signature before making dumb comments, hypocrite.



So let me guess, you believe SM only changes Minato's eyes yet you accuse me of dumb comments?
Your damage control is hilarious.

Stay classy, Itachitard.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> So let me guess, you believe SM only changes Minato's eyes yet you accuse me of dumb comments?
> Your damage control is hilarious.
> 
> Stay classy, Itachitard.



Damage control?
Go to the telegrams and say that again. 
If anything, Minato is the laughingstock that got trolled.

I actually made a detailed comment in this thread, unlike you.


----------



## Garcher (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> So let me guess, you believe SM only changes Minato's eyes yet you accuse me of dumb comments?
> Your damage control is hilarious.
> 
> Stay classy, Itachitard.



How can Minato move faster than instant teleportation?

A mere Rasengan with SM boosted isn't 1233298432948329 times stronger. Kakashi tanked it. KAKASHI TANKED IT.

So - explain me, why is SM Minato like 10 times stronger, if there's no real increase in speed and his strongest move is tanked by a Jonin with rather low stamina?


----------



## Odie Esty (Feb 19, 2014)

So shifting the conversation into a more...productive vein I think Minato could take base Itachi. Without Susano'o. He's bound to know just how dangerous he is and know about  his genjutsu prowess, and assuming he can avoid eye contact, take him down. Of course the issue comes with Susano'o, which has been largely regarded as invincible and I'd have the agree. Even with his well established summoning prowess I doubt Gamabunta can take Itachi's invincible Susano'o. Unless Minato can place a seal on him and teleport inside of it, he probably wouldn't win.

Also, for all the "KAKASHI TANKED SM RASENGAN" stuff, I'm pretty sure he Kamui'd it before it hit him, or before it could do some real damage.


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Damage control?
> Go to the telegrams and say that again.
> If anything, Minato is the laughingstock that got trolled.
> 
> I actually made a detailed comment in this thread, unlike you.



I've already stated it a dozen times actually. Itachitards feel threatened because Minato has SM so they started the heavy damage control when they really shouldn't be since Base Minato is more than enough for Itachi.

Yes it takes Juubi jins to mess with Minato whereas Itachi got owned by a Tayuya Genjutsu and ripped in half by Kabuto. Yes Minato is soooo weak 






Aikuro said:


> How can Minato move faster than instant teleportation?
> 
> A mere Rasengan with SM boosted isn't 1233298432948329 times stronger. Kakashi tanked it. KAKASHI TANKED IT.
> 
> So - explain me, why is SM Minato like 10 times stronger, if there's no real increase in speed and his strongest move is tanked by a Jonin with rather low stamina?



Look again, kakashi has his chest ripped open and is panting from a Rasengan that wasnt thrusted at him or held against him like it normally would be.
Minato now has enhanced sensing, strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, durability and frog kata. It made base Naruto kage level. To say it doesnt do anything for Minato is nothing but biased damage control bullshit.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> I've already stated it a dozen times actually. Itachitards feel threatened because Minato has SM so they started the heavy damage control when they really shouldn't be since Base Minato is more than enough for Itachi.



Minato fans are the ones starting damage control, pal.
They feel the need to defend his ass by bringing up Madara and Obito. 
Does getting humiliated count as feats?? I don't think so.

Let me tell you something, though...
They're basically the only people he's fought, other than idiots like Ei/Killer B and fodder.



> Yes it takes Juubi jins to mess with Minato



Apparently, it takes Juubi Jins to fodderize Minato... not just mess with him.
That means there are other people who can destroy him, too. 

Juubi Jins are too much for Minato. 



> whereas Itachi got owned by a Tayuya Genjutsu



...and he actually managed to get out of the illusion with his arms intact. 
Sasuke was pretty safe, too.

Very convenient to leave that part out. 



> and ripped in half by Kabuto. Yes Minato is soooo weak



Yeah. But he still managed to function and trap Kabuto in Izanami (later on).
Minato was manhandled and sent flying without any difficulty, and that really downplays his character - considering he just got Sage Mode - and many people assumed he's got top-tier reactions and speed. Madara sent the guy flying with a mere kick and left his arms to catch friendlies. 

Simply put, the guy was trolled, and we already know Kishi's favorite character.


----------



## Kai (Feb 19, 2014)

Aikuro said:


> A mere Rasengan with SM boosted isn't 1233298432948329 times stronger. Kakashi tanked it. KAKASHI TANKED IT.


There was no chakra circulation to support the power and rotation of the Rasengan.

Most of it might as well dispersed after coming into contact with Kakashi.


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Minato fans are the ones starting damage control, pal.
> They feel the need to defend his ass by bringing up Madara and Obito.
> Does getting humiliated count as feats?? I don't think so.
> 
> ...



Juubi jins are too much for anyone including foddertachi yet Minato is good enough in Kishi's eye to use to hype them up.
Did you just seriously compare Kabuto and Tayuya to Juubi jins? 

Wow dude, just wow


----------



## Turrin (Feb 19, 2014)

@Zero

Why are you even bothering with those people. The one guy said Sick Itachi is still stronger and the other is basically arguing that SM does nothing. They are trolling.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> Did you just seriously compare Kabuto and Tayuya to Juubi jins?
> 
> Wow dude, just wow



I thought we're comparing circumstances? 

Itachi was nerfed in that battle, considering he couldn't attack or maim Kabuto. 
Nonetheless, he still managed to prevent Gokage from getting slaughtered by PS, and it's pretty likely that he saved Kabuto. 

I'm sure Kabuto is the person standing before Sasuke.


I don't know why you're bringing up Tayuya's illusion, anyway; it was broken.
Itachi and Sasuke were left unscathed. 

Minato lost his arms from confrontations with Juubi Jins; he doesn't know the right time to back down. 

Poor guy...


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

Turrin said:


> @Zero
> 
> Why are you even bothering with those people. The one guy said Sick Itachi is still stronger and the other is basically arguing that SM does nothing. They are trolling.



You're right. It's not possible for anyone to be this dumb, they must be trolling.


haha good one guys, you really got me there. :^)


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> You're right. It's not possible for anyone to be this dumb, they must be trolling.
> 
> 
> haha good one guys, you really got me there. :^)



Concession accepted.


----------



## Krippy (Feb 19, 2014)

Alive Minato can take on Alive Itachi, MS Obito, etc.

Edo Sage Mode/KCM Minato can take on Edo Itachi and Nagato.

BM Minato can take on Naruto and Sasuke.

If Minato has BSM he can take on Base Hashirama and maybe push him to SM before getting his shit kicked in.


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Concession accepted.



I'm glad we both agree you're the dumbest guy here.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 19, 2014)

Sm does nothing to minato's power? I wonder how stupid some people can get. Lol



> .If Minato has BSM he can take on Base Hashirama and maybe push him to SM before getting his shit kicked in



And what sm hashi can do to him exactly?


----------



## Jagger (Feb 19, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I highly doubt the rasengan was even enhanced by senjutsu as it grows larger when it is as shown when Naruto and Jiraiya both did it. Minato's didn't.


There's a reason of why he activated Sage Mode and it was to enhance his attacks as the only way to harm the Juubi's Jinchuuriki is through Senjutsu.

Otherwise, it would have failed and Madara would have let the attack him as it wouldn't do any kind of effect.


----------



## Jagger (Feb 19, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Minato didn't even have SM like 20 chapters ago. Fukusaku's statement doesn't mean anything.


And yet, he somehow learned how to achieve a perfect state of balance between chakra and Natural energy in minutes despite even both Jiraiya and Naruto took days in order to do that and they had the aid of the toads to prevent themselves from becoming a stone and not to mention the oil used by the toads.

That is way too convenient for me to swallow, tbh.

Edit: Damn, I forgot I already posted here...


----------



## fior fior (Feb 19, 2014)

He could beat Pain and that's only because Minato has the right skillset to dodge CST and CT.

No idea why people consider SM Minato and Itachi to be comparable -Itachi would get slaughtered if the two were ever to clash.


----------



## Jagger (Feb 19, 2014)

I actually believe Nagato is on the same level of power of KM Minato and SM Minato.

However, BSM Minato is haxed, tbh.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 19, 2014)

fior fior said:


> *No idea why people consider SM Minato and Itachi to be comparable* -Itachi would get slaughtered if the two were ever to clash.



Same people who think this think tobirama would beat itachi high diff at most because he's a sensor, with senju chakra reserves and fought uchihas for a long, long time. Some people thinking itachi is still better than minato shows humanity is kinda lost.

Anyway i say he is decisively over people like itachi, bee and onoki. He won't lose to people in their tier. He sits as the upper echelon in the tier above them. I say him and nagato is a 50/50 type match.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 19, 2014)

Depending on knowledge, mostly. I'd say Nagato. But i would be changing my mind depending on the jutsus he shows, he might get still stronger using more Pokemon HM to learn random jutsus/stages.


----------



## Ƶero (Feb 19, 2014)

The most impressive thing he did this chapter imo was throwing a Kunai and warping to it before Kakashi could kamui or Madara could react. Thats a pretty big feat.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 19, 2014)

@Zero this is the same man who set up FTG tags around the four corners of the juubi without anyone catching on. But people try to discredit the feat saying "he had prep"(how when he just got to the battlefield). 

How do people question minato's speed is still beyond me when it's has been hammered in our heads for a while he is the verse shining speedster.


----------



## Odie Esty (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> The most impressive thing he did this chapter imo was throwing a Kunai and warping to it before Kakashi could kamui or Madara could react. Thats a pretty big feat.



He also managed to gather enough chakra for sage mode in what was apparently an instant.


----------



## LostSelf (Feb 19, 2014)

Hiraishin is faster than Kamui, that's why i was not impressed by that. Even though Kamui is pretty fast.What i found impressive here is Madara's speed, wich still trumped Minato's horribly fast hand speed and Kamui's activation.

Kakashi's Kamui mgiht've been a bit slower due to fatigue, but i won't enter into that.


----------



## fior fior (Feb 19, 2014)

Ƶero said:


> The most impressive thing he did this chapter imo was throwing a Kunai and warping to it before Kakashi could kamui or Madara could react. Thats a pretty big feat.



Must have been a very streamlined kunai.


----------



## fior fior (Feb 19, 2014)

Odie Esty said:


> He also managed to gather enough chakra for sage mode in what was apparently an instant.



Wait, what? Have you forgotten that Minato and Kakashi were bracing themselves for quite some time?


----------



## Jagger (Feb 19, 2014)

Odie Esty said:


> He also managed to gather enough chakra for sage mode in what was apparently an instant.


Minato haven't done much that requires a lot of chakra from him since teleporting the entire alliance, but that happened a while ago and let's not forget the fact he doesn't need to gather tons of chakra since he's a zombie.


----------



## Krippy (Feb 19, 2014)

fior fior said:


> He could beat Pain and that's only because Minato has the right skillset to dodge CST and CT.
> 
> No idea why people consider SM Minato and Itachi to be comparable -Itachi would get slaughtered if the two were ever to clash.



Considering he likely can't harm Edo Itachi let alone seal him, there's plenty to be discussed.


----------



## Super Chief (Feb 19, 2014)

Why are people taking Minato knowing Frog Fu for fact? I get the presumption given how he's a perfect sage like Naruto but until he actually demonstrates that he can use it, it's just a presumption.

Anyway, as for my pick, it's probably Nagato. FTG is stupidly useful.


----------



## Odie Esty (Feb 19, 2014)

fior fior said:


> Wait, what? Have you forgotten that Minato and Kakashi were bracing themselves for quite some time?



That's still impressive since Naruto has to physically sit and meditate.


----------



## Jagger (Feb 19, 2014)

Not really.

Naruto activated Sage Mode in matter of seconds when Juubito was bad-mouthing his father, but that happened only after using such mode several times before while this is the first time Minato does it.

I still find Minato's SM extremely convenient.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 19, 2014)

Minato clearly mastered his perfect sage mode with the frogs while alive. Him activating it in a second or two, plus the pigmentation around his eyes/lack or frog feature proves this.

His edo state has nothing to do with his mastery of sage mode until stated or proven with hardcore evidence.


----------



## Kai (Feb 19, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Minato clearly mastered his perfect sage mode with the frogs while alive. Him activating it in a second or two, plus the pigmentation around his eyes/lack or frog feature proves this.


Fukusaku stated Naruto surpassed his predecessors (Minato) in the Sage Arts.

Minato didn't perfect the craft. It's just to what limitation is unknown.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 19, 2014)

Kai said:


> Fukusaku stated Naruto surpassed his predecessors (Minato) in the Sage Arts.
> 
> Minato didn't perfect the craft. It's just to what limitation is unknown.



So you are saying he looks like a "perfect" sage but lacks the abilities of one? 

Fukusaku could of have been also talking about power in SM(throwing a FRS thanks to SM and frog katas) but i am sure in terms of states/forms minato is at the pinnacle. The things that can be questioned is how long he can stay in it etc.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Feb 19, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I highly doubt the rasengan was even enhanced by senjutsu as it grows larger when it is as shown when Naruto and Jiraiya both did it. Minato's didn't.



Supposedly Minato had better control over his Rasengan's than Jiraiya or Naruto do, as far as a SINGULAR Vanilla Rasengan goes. I mean, he did create the jutsu, and had the most experience with it. ((Even if Jiraiya had more years to use it and Naruto had created some alternatives.))


----------



## Tarot (Feb 19, 2014)

SM is a good buff, but I wouldn't really say it makes Minato jump any tiers.
What he probably gains:
-Superhuman strength and durability. 
-Giant Rasengans
He's already a sensor and has superhuman speed and reaction supplemented with teleportation, so SM won't add too much in those fields . The strongest character I'd say he could beat now is Pain.


----------



## Trojan (Feb 19, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> So you are saying he looks like a "perfect" sage but lacks the abilities of one?
> 
> Fukusaku could of have been also talking about power in SM(throwing a FRS thanks to SM and frog katas) but i am sure in terms of states/forms minato is at the pinnacle. The things that can be questioned is how long he can stay in it etc.



Pa did not know about FRS at that point.


----------



## Brooks (Feb 19, 2014)

Maybe legs and armless Sick Itachi.


----------



## Rocky (Feb 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Nonetheless, he still managed to prevent Gokage from getting slaughtered by PS.




Actually Madara reactivated it and slaughtered them anyway. Did you miss the "not ok" scan?


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 19, 2014)

Elia said:


> Pa did not know about FRS at that point.



Noted. But still minato's looks, which is said to be the look of a true sage cannot be ignored.


----------



## Arles Celes (Feb 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Yeah this is so stupid to me. SM is one of the 5 main ultimate powers in the manga wielded by the Sage:
> 
> 1. Hax'd Dojutsu
> 2. Uzamaki Chains/ Fuuinjutsu
> ...



Personally I think that Minato still needs more feats with Fuuinjutsu as not necessarily all of those are powerful enough to really make one overhhaxxxe'd and Kushina may still be more skilled with those like how Hashi is better with Wood than Yamato. Minato also didn't display Kushina's chains which is possibly the most powerful Uzumaki power. Death God is cool but is double KO and removing control over summons is cool but only if said summon is forced by the summoner against his will.

Still, as an edo with fully mastered bijuu powers, seemingly full mastery of senjutsu and some skill with Fuuinjutsu, Minato is probably in the same tier (or close) to EMS Madara and Hashirama. I was hoping to see from him some sort of Fuuinjutsu that does not cost the user his life but maybe Kishi decided to later show such skill with Kushina or Mito since they are after all Uzumaki and are supposed to be experts at that field.

That said I think that Hashi's DNA which allows for Mokuton usage might also qualify for being one of the 5 big powers that were wielded by the sage especially given how Shinju seems to be connected to wood. And Hashi's DNA nowadays seems to be the answer for...well everything.

Also IF Kabuto could force even the likes of Madara or Hashi into a bloodlust state without giving them a chance to think then his ET could potentially only lose to Juubi Jin status. An army of hokages, strongest Uchihas, strongest Uzumaki, strongest Akatsuki...who can beat that apart from Juubi Jins? Of course such DNA robbing could take some time but if he decided to go all the way after the hokages are free from the Death God...


----------



## Turrin (Feb 20, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> Personally I think that Minato still needs more feats with Fuuinjutsu as not necessarily all of those are powerful enough to really make one overhhaxxxe'd and Kushina may still be more skilled with those like how Hashi is better with Wood than Yamato. Minato also didn't display Kushina's chains which is possibly the most powerful Uzumaki power. Death God is cool but is double KO and removing control over summons is cool but only if said summon is forced by the summoner against his will.
> 
> Still, as an edo with fully mastered bijuu powers, seemingly full mastery of senjutsu and some skill with Fuuinjutsu, Minato is probably in the same tier (or close) to EMS Madara and Hashirama. I was hoping to see from him some sort of Fuuinjutsu that does not cost the user his life but maybe Kishi decided to later show such skill with Kushina or Mito since they are after all Uzumaki and are supposed to be experts at that field.
> 
> ...



I agree with you he needs more feats w/ Uzamaki Fuuinjutsu. But we know he has it to a good extent, which is enough for me to consider him very hax'd.


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