# DD-fight Law vs Sanji



## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Seeing one succeeded in injuring Doffy while the other didn't. 

Location: Dressrosa's Palace (Doflamingo's throne)
Distance: 30 meters
Knowledge: Rep
Mindset: BL
Restriction: None in particular (Radio Knive is iffy)

Scenario 2: Fresh Law vs Smoker and Sanji :ignoramus

Discuss

BTW: Law's in the same state as against Dofla in Scenario 1.


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## Suit (Nov 22, 2014)

Hard to say since I think that plot is helping out Law a lot right now.

I think under no PIS/CIS and no plot either of course, Sanji wins high or extreme-diff. Law is pretty damn battered, after all.

Second scenario, I _really_ don't see Law winning. The duo, low-diff most likely.


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## Ruse (Nov 22, 2014)

Sanji should win dunno what diff. 

Law gets wrecked in the second scenario.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Well, to be fair, Law managed to tango with Dofla in CQC and managed to get a hit on him (albeit, by worrying him with the revelation that Law is a D).


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## Ruse (Nov 22, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Well, to be fair, Law managed to tango with Dofla in CQC and managed to get a hit on him (*albeit, by worrying him with the revelation that Law is a D*).



Just playing some psychological warfare nothing wrong with that, Doffy does the same shit he did it with Luffy & Bellamy (which was pretty funny )


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## tanman (Nov 22, 2014)

With just rep knowledge, Law probably wins S1 with high diff.
With full knowledge, Sanji can take it.

Law gets pummeled in S2, though.


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## zenieth (Nov 22, 2014)

>using plot as an excuse

Law taxes and waxes


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## Ruse (Nov 22, 2014)

How can you blame last chapter on plot? Law isn't some fodder.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Imma specify in the op that in "DD-fight Law", I mean Law in the same state (injured/exausted)


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## Amol (Nov 22, 2014)

Sanji wins though I am not sure about difficulty, probably Mid(high) or High(low). It could do lower depending upon next chapter. I can't be sure .
Second Scenario Law gets low diff'd and I am being generous here.


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## Coruscation (Nov 22, 2014)

Sanji isn't beating Law in either of the states we've seen him fight DD in. 

Law came -this- close to cutting Doflamingo's face off even in their first bout. That was a single move out of his giant arsenal of ways to confound, manipulate and fuck people up. Sanji dealing with all the crap Law has up his sleeve is just unthinkable at this point. He doesn't have the superiority in physical stats that people have loved to assume he does. Law blocked Overheat with his sword, blocked FCS with his strings, landed a clean hit on Doflamingo in close quarters combat etc. Luffy can challenge Law because his versatile Haki & G2 takes him a step above. Sanji doesn't have what it takes. He'll fall like Smoker. The disparity in ability is too wide for Law to lose just because he's moderately tired. He was worse off against Vergo and ended him comfortably. Not being at 100% was a big deal against DD but Sanji is no Doflamingo.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> Sanji isn't beating Law in either of the states we've seen him fight DD in.
> 
> Law came -this- close to cutting Doflamingo's face off even in their first bout. That was a single move out of his giant arsenal of ways to confound, manipulate and fuck people up. Sanji dealing with all the crap Law has up his sleeve is just unthinkable at this point. He doesn't have the superiority in physical stats that people have loved to assume he does. Law blocked Overheat with his sword, blocked FCS with his *strings*, landed a clean hit on Doflamingo in close quarters combat etc. Luffy can challenge Law because his versatile Haki & G2 takes him a step above. Sanji doesn't have what it takes. He'll fall like Smoker. The disparity in ability is too wide for Law to lose just because he's moderately tired. He was worse off against Vergo and ended him comfortably. Not being at 100% was a big deal against DD but Sanji is no Doflamingo.



When did Law use strings? 

Edit: Nevermind, I just understand you mean CoA, but you typed strings instead


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## Ruse (Nov 22, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> Sanji isn't beating Law in either of the states we've seen him fight DD in.
> 
> Law came -this- close to cutting Doflamingo's face off even in their first bout. That was a single move out of his giant arsenal of ways to confound, manipulate and fuck people up. Sanji dealing with all the crap Law has up his sleeve is just unthinkable at this point. He doesn't have the superiority in physical stats that people have loved to assume he does. Law blocked Overheat with his sword, blocked FCS with his strings, landed a clean hit on Doflamingo in close quarters combat etc. Luffy can challenge Law because his versatile Haki & G2 takes him a step above. Sanji doesn't have what it takes. He'll fall like Smoker. The disparity in ability is too wide for Law to lose just because he's moderately tired. He was worse off against Vergo and ended him comfortably. Not being at 100% was a big deal against DD but Sanji is no Doflamingo.



Shit thats a pretty good point


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 22, 2014)

Going with Law on this one. He's too sneaky and has a lot of tricks up his sleeves to take Sanji down that Sanji wouldn't be able to cope with. Sanji is good at 1 on 1 fights against physicals brawlers but against someone who so obviously outcalsses him in certain aspects of overall capabilities and is too unpredictable Sanji won't be able to do much to Law. Against someone of Law's calibre who deviates from long ranged slashing attacks to coming close to your distance to his close range deadly attacks I don't think he'd fair up well against Law. Law's sneakiness in conjunction with his intelligence makes him all the more deadlier and disguises his attacks  with wit and feints that you won't notice until you're hit by them. Sanji isn't going to be doing much to someone with great offensive skills with which he could tap in to a wide variety of attacks ranging from slashing at his opponents from whichever distance to shocking them with Counter-shock. His haki is good enough to block Sanji's diable jambei attacks to a certain extent and his offensive capabilities are enough to bifurcate Sanji. Sanji isn't really as deadly of an opponent for Law to worry about too much. Of course, he'd still have to be wary of him. 

Law has shown impressive feats against Doflamingo in terms of physical power, stamina and  maneuverability with which he was able to switch his location with various objects within his room so I could see how he'd dart away from Sanji if he sees the situation to be against him. If Sanji is in his room, I don't think he'd be able to stop the effects of Law's slash from cutting him.


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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

DD vs. Law and Sanji = DD gets distracted using Parasite on Sanji, Law blitzes.


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## Luke (Nov 22, 2014)

I think Law's not as injured as some people are making him out to be based on his performance against Doflamingo so far. Hell, he's actually had the upper hand in the fight once or twice now. He can definitely defeat Sanji. 

Smoker and Sanji take Law out.


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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

I think people underestimate Law at this point. 

He's displayed incredible dominance over Vergo and then shown he's an exceptionally capable fighter against DD. Blocking DD's Coloured Strings with just his arms covered in Haki is REALLY fucking impressive considering both Luffy and Sanji got rekt by it. 

He's been given a lot of really good portrayal in the past two arcs. He's not just reliant on his DF, he seems much more versatile than some give him credit for.


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## Dr. White (Nov 22, 2014)

It depends what Injection Shot does. Either way Shambles is gonna be hard for Sanji to overcome. It has bested Dofla twice in the fight. Depending on what injection shot does, Law could take this mid diff in this state. But assuming that was just a name for his sword stab I'll saw law wins High diff, although Radio Knife kinda makes me look at mid diff like  

Sanji really just isn't on Law's level. He will in no way shape or form get fodderized, but Law's bases have really been padded with the delving into his past. He has been trained by a dude who's going toe to toe with DC in martial arts, has sniper skills, and swords training (which we could have already guessed.). Not only that Law has the better COA showing currently which is undoubtedly gonna be an advantage fighting Sanji. 

I think you should ban Law's sword.

Oh Shit just saw that mindset is bloodlusted. Okay well than Law wins mid diff. Sanji comes in Chef Saiyain Mode using hells memories, while Law uses a shambles/Radio Knife combo. 

Smoker and Sanji take out law Mid - high diff


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## tanman (Nov 22, 2014)

If we're hyping Law right now, let me just that I don't really see Luffy beating him (with both of them fully healed). I understand story-wise why it would make sense for Luffy to be a little bit stronger, but ability-wise I can't actually reconcile that in my head.


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## Dr. White (Nov 22, 2014)

What in the story should indicate a fresh Luffy being able to come out storming in the NW? If anything he should have to work more to prove himself the strongest. It be stupid as hell for him to only have to go through Hody and Caeser to be marginally stronger than the toughest NW Supernova.


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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> What in the story should indicate a fresh Luffy being able to come out storming in the NW? If anything he should have to work more to prove himself the strongest. It be stupid as hell for him to only have to go through Hody and Caeser to be marginally stronger than the toughest NW Supernova.



Any way I cut it, Luffy seems to be significantly below Law in terms of overall power and capabilities.

I mean if you put Luffy in Law's shoes against Vergo, he'd have a MUCH harder time taking Vergo down. Granted this is mainly due to Law's haxness, but this is also something that would factor in a fight between the two so it can't really be used as an excuse. 

If Law's Haki wasn't better than Vergo's, he wouldn't have been able to cut him in half. It's not like Law just relies on his DF as we've clearly seen he's got formidable mastery over his Haki (I mean relative to his level). 

Luffy definitely needs some proper feats. The ones he has now have not been representative of how strong he actually is. But I don't see him being equal to or stronger than Law. Like you said, he didn't come into the New World hurling fists, he came in quietly. Law came into the New World stirring shit up with Luffy as a sidekick.


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## Coruscation (Nov 22, 2014)

It isn't really that hard to envision Luffy being on par with Law when you consider the full breadth of his abilities. G2 should give him extreme speed to land hits and dodge moves on top of his rubber flexibility and good reflexes and he definitely has enough power. The problem is the nerfing of G2 and his physical stats in general. G2 should by all rights let Luffy fight on par with any of his peers (it was created to surpass opponents he couldn't normally win against) but since the timeskip he spams it against every little schmuck he goes up against and it can't seem to have a great effect against anyone worth their salt anymore. On top of that Luffy doesn't seem to have better physical stats than Law despite being a fully dedicated physical fighter. In fact Law's stats have arguably been more impressive. Luffy _should_ have the ability to match Law but from his depiction so far he seems not to. The question is whether this is a case of the plot-nerfing that has become typical for One Piece and we'll see Luffy's real power in his upcoming duel with DD, or if he simply can not match Law right now. 



			
				Giorno said:
			
		

> Blocking DD's Coloured Strings with just his arms covered in Haki is REALLY fucking impressive considering both Luffy and Sanji got rekt by it.



Not to say the feat isn't impressive but that really isn't a proper comparison. Luffy and Sanji got hit by the attack to their normal bodies without defending (and saying Luffy got "rekt" is quite an overstatement considering he actually partially avoided it and seemed to take only trivial damage, though it wasn't the real DD's attack, just Black Knight's). Law on the other hand put up a solid, double-armed guard with his armored wrists.


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## Canute87 (Nov 22, 2014)

Law kicks Sanji's ass to the curb.

Law beats Smoker and Sanji too.


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## Firo (Nov 22, 2014)

A better comparison would be Luffy trying to COunter DD with his own Armament Haki only to get the shit kicked out of him.


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## Ruse (Nov 22, 2014)

Giorno said:


> Any way I cut it, Luffy seems to be significantly below Law in terms of overall power and capabilities.
> 
> I mean if you put Luffy in Law's shoes against Vergo, he'd have a MUCH harder time taking Vergo down. Granted this is mainly due to Law's haxness, but this is also something that would factor in a fight between the two so it can't really be used as an excuse.
> 
> ...



This shit is depressing man Luffy needs to kick it into gear, no shame in possibly been weaker than Law but the difference in portrayal so far just....


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## Suit (Nov 22, 2014)

tanman said:


> If we're hyping Law right now, let me just that I don't really see Luffy beating him (with both of them fully healed). I understand story-wise why it would make sense for Luffy to be a little bit stronger, but ability-wise I can't actually reconcile that in my head.



With Law's hax, it's difficult to reconcile on paper the fact that he's actually beatable by anyone. That doesn't mean that that is the case. Luffy shouldn't be weaker than Law at all.


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## Coruscation (Nov 22, 2014)

> A better comparison would be Luffy trying to COunter DD with his own Armament Haki only to get the shit kicked out of him.



That's not a good comparison either. A heavy kick with his whole body behind it, reinforced with Hardening, is obviously going to have far more physical oomph behind it than Five-Colored Strings. The dangerous part of Doflamingo's strings is how sharp they are. In terms of real life analogies it's like say a razor-sharp dagger and a heavy warhammer. The dagger will slice your flesh and cause deep wounds if it connects but you would be able to block its cutting impact with a pair of solid steel gauntlets. The hammer, on the other hand, would easily break down your block and knock you down due to the sheer weight behind it.


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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> Not to say the feat isn't impressive but that really isn't a proper comparison. Luffy and Sanji got hit by the attack to their normal bodies without defending (and saying Luffy got "rekt" is quite an overstatement considering he actually partially avoided it and seemed to take only trivial damage, though it wasn't the real DD's attack, just Black Knight's). Law on the other hand put up a solid, double-armed guard with his armored wrists.



Yeah, fair enough.

In Sanji's case he attacked DD (presumably with Haki considering the opponent and the circumstance), then DD counterattacked to which Sanji couldn't even react. I suppose had he had the opportunity to defend from it with BH reinforced body parts he may have been able to protect himself from it, but realistically if his BH couldn't trump Vergo's and caused his leg to fracture whom which couldn't defend from Law's Haki, I find it hard to believe Sanji would be able to defend from Colour Strings, at least not fully. 

Then with Luffy, the first time he was attacked by it he was easily able to react to it but the second time he wasn't fast enough. I don't think Luffy was able to defend from it TBH, he was in momentum after using Jet Gatling, he noticed the clone last second and couldn't react to it at all because he was in the air (at least this is how I perceived that scene). 

The thing is, though they didn't defend from it with BH, I don't think Sanji would be able to defend from it period. Luffy on the other hand I could see being capable of defending from it, but I could also see him being cut slightly as well. They weren't portrayed in the greatest of lights in their confrontation with DD whereas Law was shown in slightly negative light the first time, and has been portrayed in a pretty good light (so far) the second time. 

So yeah, it isn't really a great comparison because the SHP didn't use BH (well Luffy didn't at least, it's hard to tell with Sanji) but they weren't portrayed in as good of a light against Doffy as Law was.


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## Firo (Nov 22, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> That's not a good comparison either. A heavy kick with his whole body behind it, reinforced with Hardening, is obviously going to have far more physical oomph behind it than Five-Colored Strings.


Not really.
We've seen what pne of those strings are capable of. They can dice shit like meteors with no problem what so ever. Not to mention they are strong enough to clash with swords. Not to mention they somehow possess physical power of its own.


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## Firo (Nov 22, 2014)

I mean, the way DD uses his strings, he obviously puts his own physical power behind it too. Thats why he doesnt waiver if someone clashes with said strings.


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## zenieth (Nov 22, 2014)

remember when DD blocked a DJ kick with a no armament haki leg?


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

I never expected this thread to have such attention to be honest 

Tho, can Law basically block most of Sanji's attack with his CoA alone considering that it tanked Dofla's
strings (albeit he got pushed back form it)?


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## Firo (Nov 22, 2014)

Yeah I do.
Po' Po' Sanji.
The worst part was him provoking him after saying he'd kill the strawhats in front of him.


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## Firo (Nov 22, 2014)

About as mad as you are now Im guessing.


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## zenieth (Nov 22, 2014)

If luffy can't manage more than 50% of the work when law's fighting with recent bullet wounds

admiral wounds

and general DD wounds...


bruuuuuuh


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)




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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

Expecting Luffy to handle at least 50% after getting almost killed by two mid tiers.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

I forgot Law took a Fulbring to the stomach.


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## zenieth (Nov 22, 2014)

Luffy needs 75% of this fight to even out how shit kicked law was going into this fight to justify equality.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)




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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

Law's gunna do all the heavy lifting, 80% of the work. Then Luffy's gunna come in like a bitch and PIS "win" the fight after going all-out.


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## Firo (Nov 22, 2014)

Giorno said:


> It's not like his strength makes or breaks his character.



In the OL, thats all that matters.


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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

Firo said:


> In the OL, thats all that matters.



It's kind of sad really. They don't even like Zoro for his character, they just like him because swords and lelpower.



Well not like there would be anything to like about him aside from that I guess.


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## monkey d ace (Nov 22, 2014)

law owns sanji.


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)

Wiper had even more reasons than Law to kick the arc's vilain ass and he didn't.
Because he was too weak.

Luffy is the one who's gonna finish Doffy, Law don't stand a chance.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Viper and Law aren't comparable in power.

Not to mention Viper would have killed Enel if the latter couldn't restart his heart.
Which basically mean that you're saying that Law is gonna nearly defeat Dofla


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## zenieth (Nov 22, 2014)

And stronger than zoro


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)

zenieth said:


> And stronger than zoro


Zoro's performance against Fujitora >>> Law's vs doffy.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Zoro's performance against Fujitora >>> Law's vs doffy.



Never knew that getting near-fodderized and countered was >>> Keeping up and injuring someone.


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)

> Never knew that* getting near-fodderized* and countered was >>> Keeping up and injuring someone.


Bullshit.
Zoro pushed back Fujitora with a nameless slash.
Fujitora praised Zoro's strength.


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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

zenieth said:


> And stronger than zoro



Everyone is stronger than Zolo though.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Bullshit.
> Zoro pushed back Fujitora with a nameless slash.
> Fujitora praised Zoro's strength.



He didn't even push him far. Again, he was send in a hole with ease.


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)




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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

Yo vlad, how strong is Zolo to you?


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Which by the perspective of it is probably of a slighty great distance between the two panel.


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## zenieth (Nov 22, 2014)

>law managed to wound dd
>law managed to cut and redirect numerous meteors from Fuji
>zoro couldn't get a hit in while Fujitora's mind was elsewhere
>zoro's performance was better


yup, definitely vlad logic.


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)

> Yo vlad, how strong is Zolo to you?


As strong as Luffy.



> >law managed to wound dd


So did Luffy.



> >law managed to cut and redirect numerous meteors from Fuji


This is a shitty feat, that's like saying Hawkins is the strongest SN preskip because he didn't get oneshot by Kizaru unlike the others.



> >zoro couldn't get a hit in while Fujitora's mind was elsewhere


1. Fujitora is a LOT stronger than Doflamingo.
2. His mind wasn't elsewhere.


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## GIORNO (Nov 22, 2014)

So then Zolo must be pretty weak and definitely weaker than Law.

Nice to know.


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## zenieth (Nov 22, 2014)

I like how vlad equates Hawkin's defense feat to law's offense feat.


Try being equivalent. If you asked me which of the sn preskip could take an admiral attack, I'd clearly say hawkins because of that exact feat.

Power sets exist for a reason.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> So did Luffy.



With Law's help



> This is a shitty feat, that's like saying Hawkins is the strongest SN preskip because he didn't get oneshot by Kizaru unlike the others.



Kizaru never fought all of the SN.



> 1. Fujitora is a LOT stronger than Doflamingo.
> 2. His mind wasn't elsewhere.



1 doesn't matter since the attack Fujitora used on Zoro can be countered by Dofla.
2 is wrong because he looked casual at the time. Basically how he looked against Sabo (albeit, with a more serious face).


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

zenieth said:


> I like how vlad equates Hawkin's defense feat to law's offense feat.
> 
> 
> Try being equivalent. If you asked me which of the sn preskip could take an admiral attack, I'd clearly say hawkins because of that exact feat.
> ...



More like feats, since he took a light kick and multiples lasers.


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## ShadowReaper (Nov 22, 2014)

Well, really?

Law one  shotted full CoA armored Vergo and the entire Punk Hazard and mountains and Sanji broke his leg while trying to stop Vergo and failed. Law hold his own against Doflamingo and Issho for a relatively long time and it's not like he got terribly stomped by Dofla in the second encounter, not showing any resistance.

Sanji has no chance.


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)

> Try being equivalent. If you asked me which of the sn preskip could take an admiral attack, I'd clearly say hawkins because of that exact feat.


Hax is hax it doesn't matter if it's offense or defense.
Law cut through Fuji's meteors with his hax, it's no big feat and doesn't say anything about his strength.
Law's hax can cut seastone, even Mihawk wouldn't be able to cut that. 



> With Law's help


Luffy could have done it without Law's help.
Also Law only got a free hit on Doffy because he managed to piss him off with his speech.



> 1 doesn't matter since the attack Fujitora used on Zoro can be countered by Dofla.


Give me a proof, because so far outside of the Red Hawk no moves stronger than the one Zoro used were countered by Doffy.



> 2 is wrong because he looked casual at the time. Basically how he looked against Sabo (albeit, with a more serious face).


Fujitora is the one who engaged the fight against Zoro, to protect Doflamingo.
His mind wasn't elsewere, he didn't take the fight seriously but still he wasn't trolling like Kizaru vs the preskip SNs.



> Kizaru never fought all of the SN.


He fought Drake,Hawkins,Apoo and Urouge,  the only one that didn't get oneshot is Hawkins.



> So then Zolo must be pretty weak and definitely weaker than Law.


Luffy > Law dude.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 22, 2014)

Law slices and dices. GG Surgeon of Death.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Luffy could have done it without Law's help.



How? He's getting overwhelmed by Black Knight and Bellamy.



> Also Law only got a free hit on Doffy because he managed to piss him off with his speech.



And? He also cut Doffy's cheek without a speech.



> Give me a proof, because so far outside of the Red Hawk no moves stronger than the one Zoro used were countered by Doffy


.

DJ, Jet Gatling, Fujitora's Meteor.



> Fujitora is the one who engaged the fight against Zoro, to protect Doflamingo.
> His mind wasn't elsewere, he didn't take the fight seriously but still he wasn't trolling like Kizaru vs the preskip SNs.



This is exactly what I said...



> He fought Drake,Hawkins,Apoo and Urouge,  the only one that didn't get oneshot is Hawkins.



And? It's his own ability.


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)

> DJ, Jet Gatling, Fujitora's Meteor.


All these moves are either weaker or easier to counter than the flying slash.
Anyway Zoro has much stronger attack than the weak slash he used against Fuji, there's no way Doffy would stop a shi shishi sonson or daishinkan



> And? It's his own ability.


And Law's own ability is to cut everything that isn't hardened by haki.
Fuji's meteor, PH mountain, seastone handcuffs



> And? He also cut Doffy's cheek without a speech.


How is that impressive?



> How? He's getting overwhelmed by Black Knight and Bellamy.


PIS.


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## Coruscation (Nov 22, 2014)

> We've seen what pne of those strings are capable of. They can dice shit like meteors with no problem what so ever.



That's all because of their sharpness. It has nothing to do with them being launched with great force. They don't even need momentum to dice the meteor, they did it when stationary. Luffy's Hardened soles already showed the ability to stop the strings in movement and are you going to tell me Luffy's soles > a meteor? No. It's just a matter of the meteor being made out of rock, a material that those sharp strings can easily slice, but Luffy's soles were Hardened to the point that they couldn't cut through. It's not a matter of DC.



> I mean, the way DD uses his strings, he obviously puts his own physical power behind it too. Thats why he doesnt waiver if someone clashes with said strings.



Yeah. He puts power behind it. But that doesn't mean the power is anywhere near as high as when he delivers a heavy dashing kick.

I'll repeat my analogy. Try taking a really sharp, light dagger and slicing at a guy holding up a solid block using a pair of steel gauntlets. It doesn't really matter how much force you put into it. Or how sharp the dagger is. It just isn't a suitable tool for the purpose. It's not going to get much done, even if you could slice through an unguarded human body like wet paper with the dagger.

Then put on a pair of heavy plate boots, and deliver a high-speed running kick. You're going to get a LOT more force behind that blow and you're going to overpower the block.

It's two entirely different attack types with different advantages and disadvantages. The strings are suited to dealing heavy damage to lightly armored targets. Bludgeoning attacks are suited to dealing damage to and overpowering more heavily armored and/or actively blocking targets.


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## Hachibi (Nov 22, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> All these moves are either weaker or easier to counter than the flying slash.
> Anyway Zoro has much stronger attack than the weak slash he used against Fuji, there's no way Doffy would stop a shi shishi sonson or daishinkan



Jet Gatling isn't weaker or easier to counter than a flying slash.
There's 4 option:
-He dodge them
-He counter them like he countered the Injection Shot that was going to Trebol's head
-Counter with his string
-Use Parasite



> And Law's own ability is to cut everything that isn't hardened by haki.
> Fuji's meteor, PH mountain, seastone handcuffs



Which isn't the only thing he has.



> How is that impressive?



For two reasons:
-Law was extremely tired and bloodied
-That he was close to cut Doflamingo's head off.



> PIS.



Just like Doflamingo is PIS sickened himself.


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## Suit (Nov 22, 2014)

>Arguing with Extravag.

Why. What do you hope to accomplish.

Law > Zoro. Let's all, as sane people, agree on that so that valid discussion can take place, okay?


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## Extravlad (Nov 22, 2014)

Say the only guy on earth who think Post TS Teach is only Doflamingo lvl.


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## trance (Nov 22, 2014)

It's supremely clear at this point that Sanji is entirely outclassed by a fighter of Law's caliber. He _might_ have an edge in some stats but it's definitely nothing worthwhile. Law has demonstrated ample feats of possessing an impressive amount of physicality. With stats and Haki alone, he should be able to tango nicely with Sanji. With his DF on top of that, he wins comfortably.


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## Luke (Nov 22, 2014)

Trance said:


> It's supremely clear at this point that Sanji is entirely outclassed by a fighter of Law's caliber. He _might_ have an edge in some stats but it's definitely nothing worthwhile. Law has demonstrated ample feats of possessing an impressive amount of physicality. With stats and Haki alone, he should be able to tango nicely with Sanji. With his DF on top of that, he wins comfortably.



Yeah, this sums it up pretty nicely. People get too wound up over the idea that Sanji is being "downplayed", when in reality, this is just the way it is.


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## Suit (Nov 23, 2014)

Luke said:


> Yeah, this sums it up pretty nicely. People get too wound up over the idea that Sanji is being "downplayed", when in reality, this is just the way it is.



"It's not downplay!"
>Proceeds to downplay.


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## Freechoice (Nov 23, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> "It's not downplay!"
> >Proceeds to downplay.



>Lucky Rue

>Posting


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## Suit (Nov 23, 2014)

>Freechoice
>Probably high


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## trance (Nov 23, 2014)

>Freechoice
>The chance of not being totally baked


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## Shinthia (Nov 23, 2014)

come now lets not underestimate my bro Luffy here. He is in a dumbfuck mode now . When he get out of that he will destroy

IMO, Law >=< Luffy . They r too close to call .

OT: I like to believe in Sanji that he can beat Law in this state but the featwise so far goes to Law sadly  i am a Sanji fan too damn it

S2: again Smoker & Sanji should win. But, Law's feat so far is over 9000 . So,


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## Luke (Nov 23, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> "It's not downplay!"
> >Proceeds to downplay.



I'm really not downplaying him though. 

-Look at Sanji's performance against Doffy 

-Look at an injured, exhausted Law's performance against Doffy

The latter is clearly better, and not exactly by a small amount either.


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## Tenma (Nov 23, 2014)

Law has full knowledge on Doffy's abilties, mindset and fighting style. Sanji probably didn't even know Doflamingo was a string-man and obviously would be at a major disadvantage against the Ito Ito with its moves such as Parasite. Samniw as also at a major environmental disadvantage given he was forced to engage a flying opponent in the sky.

Give Sanji Law's knowledge and resolve and he would more than likely do much better against Doflamingo than an injured Law.


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## Luke (Nov 23, 2014)

Tenma said:


> Law has full knowledge on Doffy's abilties, mindset and fighting style. Sanji probably didn't even know Doflamingo was a string-man and obviously would be at a major disadvantage against the Ito Ito with its moves such as Parasite. Samniw as also at a major environmental disadvantage given he was forced to engage a flying opponent in the sky.
> 
> Give Sanji Law's knowledge and resolve and he would more than likely do much better against Doflamingo than an injured Law.



These are good points, however: 

A bloodlusted kick from Sanji failed to even scratch Doflamingo, and he in fact blocked it with his pimp coat without effort. Regardless of what "major disadvantages" Sanji was at at the time, this massive difference in physical strength demonstrates a huge superiority from Doffy's end. 

Being injured and exhausted evens out the "advantages" that Law has against Doflamingo, and he's still actually managing to injure him, something Sanji never came close to doing.


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## zenieth (Nov 23, 2014)

Also flight is not a disadvantage given that sanji has proven countlessly that he can freely movē in three dimensions easily in air and water.

Land wasn't even remotely close by and sanji sustained his geppou like it's nobody's business. and he isn't even like DD who NEEDS clouds for his string flight.


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## Suit (Nov 23, 2014)

Luke said:


> I'm really not downplaying him though.
> 
> -Look at Sanji's performance against Doffy
> 
> ...



Ehh, point taken. Just remember that Sanji wasn't going to come close to winning the fight in the first place, and it can be seriously argued that plot is aiding Law a lot. Similar to Luffy vs Lucci.

And also, Sanji does have a history with being stomped by opponents that he could actually stomp (Blueno), so we can't take a quick loss as an accurate measurement. I'm actually starting to think that Oda wrote the Blueno encounter specifically to make the point that Sanji isn't supposed to be a badass like Zoro who just beats a beatable opponent immediately. That's not even something Luffy does, hence Monet and Caesar.


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## zenieth (Nov 23, 2014)

plot is never a counter argument, rue. Everything in a story is is because of plot.

 DD also isn't blueno or caesar or monet he's the saga villain, so when he puts someone down, generally speaking that's how it always goes.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Nov 23, 2014)

Even though Rob lucci technically wasn't the saga villain, he was the strongest, and i remember him stomping Luffy and Zoro


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## Suit (Nov 23, 2014)

zenieth said:


> plot is never a counter argument, rue. Everything in a story is is because of plot.
> 
> DD also isn't blueno or caesar or monet he's the saga villain, so when he puts someone down, generally speaking that's how it always goes.



I didn't ask for bad opinions and terrible arguments. Blueno would have been 2-shot by the same Sanji that mid-diffed Jyabura. If a person was to say "EL Sanji vs ___" and they tried to use Sanji vs Blueno as a base for their argument, it would be overruled by evidence that there was PIS. 

Taking that, what if Sanji hadn't fought Jyabura? People would have thought Sanji to be incredibly weak for losing to Blueno. My point is that Oda came through with his constant portrayal as the M3 being a solid dynamic despite Sanji getting shat on earlier. Right now, people are using Sanji's likely plot-induced blunder against Vergo to justify him being significantly weaker than Luffy, Zoro, and Law. And that is utter bullshit.

In conclusion, plot is important because sometimes Oda can't recomfirm a characters strength through plot constantly because it might not fit in what he needs to happen. That doesn't excuse the 5 year-old tier logic that users here are using to make Sanji seem weak.


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## Dr. White (Nov 23, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> I didn't ask for bad opinions and terrible arguments. Blueno would have been 2-shot by the same Sanji that mid-diffed Jyabura. If a person was to say "EL Sanji vs ___" and they tried to use Sanji vs Blueno as a base for their argument, it would be overruled by evidence that there was PIS.


This in of itself is a bad argument. The M3 transcended themselves during W7. Zoro and Luffy got stomped by Lucci and Co when they met as Cp9 for the first time, and Sanji got stopped short by Blueno. They then met a roadblock. Each of them developed something new which allowed them to compete with the competition and ultimately win (Ashura, DJ, and Gears)

Therefore the Sanji vs Blueno scene can't be considered PIS because there is nothing to suggest the Concasse wasn't the best shot he could throw at that point. He did almost his break hsi tekkai btw. 



> Taking that, what if Sanji hadn't fought Jyabura? People would have thought Sanji to be incredibly weak for losing to Blueno.


that would be because he lacked a fight.... If Sanji would have fought someone else and displayed DJ and the base feats (injuring Jyabura without DJ) he did during that fight we'd still get the sameconclusion. It'd be stupid for Sanji to have not given Sanji his transcendent fight like zoro/Luffy and still portray him as M3. 



> My point is that Oda came through with his constant portrayal as the M3 being a solid dynamic despite Sanji getting shat on earlier. Right now, people are using Sanji's likely plot-induced blunder against Vergo to justify him being significantly weaker than Luffy, Zoro, and Law. And that is utter bullshit.


Sanji is weaker than people like Law, and Luffy. He's on the lower end of their tier which still constitutes him being a High diff fight at his best. Sanji blitzed Vergo with Geppou, and got a DJ hit directly to his face. Then he hit Vergo with Coolier Shot right to the gut. That's about as sweet as it gets. Other than Hells Memeories he really gave Vergo a decent amount of his power potential. Could you imagine two Gear shots, or two shots from Law in that situation? Base Vergo using just Rokushi took that (with a decent amount of damage I may add in Sanji's defense) and then went on to fracture Sanji's leg, and then fight Smoker. Base Vergo vs Sanji can go either way with high - extreme diff for the winner. Full Body Haki Vergo would tear Sanji up Mid diff at worst. Luffy and Law are Stronger than Full body Vergo.


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## Suit (Nov 23, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> This in of itself is a bad argument. The M3 transcended themselves during W7. Zoro and Luffy got stomped by Lucci and Co when they met as Cp9 for the first time, and Sanji got stopped short by Blueno. They then met a roadblock. Each of them developed something new which allowed them to compete with the competition and ultimately win (Ashura, DJ, and Gears)
> 
> Therefore the Sanji vs Blueno scene can't be considered PIS because there is nothing to suggest the Concasse wasn't the best shot he could throw at that point. He did almost his break hsi tekkai btw.
> 
> ...



Wait, you're saying that Sanji could give Luffy a high-diff fight. But then you say Vergo would mid-diff Sanji while being weaker than Luffy. 

And the transcendent thing doesn't make sense other than saying that it was the moment that they developed stronger attacks. Sanji's normal attacks were capable of hurting Jyabura. By that logic, those same attacks should have devestated Blueno.


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## Dr. White (Nov 23, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> Wait, you're saying that Sanji could give Luffy a high-diff fight. But then you say Vergo would mid-diff Sanji while being weaker than Luffy.
> 
> And the transcendent thing doesn't make sense other than saying that it was the moment that they developed stronger attacks. Sanji's normal attacks were capable of hurting Jyabura. By that logic, those same attacks should have devestated Blueno.



Sanji at his best can give Luffy a high diff fight because his DJ and manuverability counter Luffy's Rubber Fruit durability/Allow him to defend better against the speed of G2 and the scope of G3. 

Base Vergo is around Sanji's level hence why I said either one can win, however Vergo's Haki form shits on his roku which sanji was struggling with. There is no evdience to suggest Sanji could give Full COA Vergo a high - extreme diff fight. Luffy is stronger than COA Vergo but not by much at all.

It's Law >= Luffy > COA Vergo >= Zoro > Sanji

Oda made it clear there resolve wasn't strong enough. Sanji didn't just pull a move out of nowhere. e obviously traine dmnetally and physically develop that move just like the other M3. Hence it would make sense that his base kicks got stronger.


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## maupp (Nov 29, 2014)

Law takes both scenarios. Dude is haxx as feck. Even a weakened Law has shown feats and been portrayed in a far better light than Sanji at full strength. Just because Law is injured doesn't mean he'll fail to do a mess or shamble. He managed to injured MIngo and put up a far better fight than Fresh Sanji ever managed to do.

Law takes both scenario.

And Luffy is a lot stronger than Sanji, something people should start understanding by now, So trying to use Luffy to justify Sanji winning is absurd. Sanji doesn't have the feats nor portrayal(as in Post skip) to suggest is in the same level as Luffy.


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## ShadowReaper (Nov 29, 2014)

Law≈Luffy>Zoro>Sanji

Even 1 handed Law will defeat Sanji.


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## Urouge (Dec 1, 2014)

Hahahahahahaha at law winning the second scenario. He gets wrecked in the second scenario come on guys. He had a high diff fight against smoker alone and you're telling me that he beats him and sanji together? This make me even more laugh because some of the people who are saying that  believe that the m3 can push an admiral to high diff


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## Ruse (Dec 1, 2014)

Urouge said:


> Hahahahahahaha at law winning the second scenario. He gets wrecked in the second scenario come on guys. *He had a high diff fight against smoker alone* and you're telling me that he beats him and sanji together? This make me even more laugh because some of the people who are saying that  believe that the m3 can push an admiral to high diff



Smoker took Law to high diff?


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## Urouge (Dec 1, 2014)

IMO he did bro

Just look at how smoker is pushing around at the beginning. Smoker nearly finished him off when he pinned him down and tried to him with the tip of his jutte. Law was definitely not taking it easy like some of the people in here think.


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## Firo (Dec 1, 2014)

I dont think that was high dif. More like mid. Besides the first encounter where Smoker caught him by surprise, he pretty much fended off the rest of Smoker's attacks.


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## Dr. White (Dec 1, 2014)

Urouge said:


> IMO he did bro
> 
> Just look at how smoker is pushing around at the beginning. Smoker nearly finished him off when he pinned him down and tried to him with the tip of his jutte. Law was definitely not taking it easy like some of the people in here think.


Lol didn't Smoker get Law in that position after the latter was trying to cut down Tashigi?

Smoker got the drop on Law once, and Law countered. Law literally didn't get hit once and Smoker's whole unit was fighting him. How does that translate to high diff? That fight is like literally a perfect example of Mid Diff.

Law wasn't just chillen like he was fighting a 5 year old but he was not nearly going all out or as beast as we know he can go (see vs Vergo, Vs Fujitora, etc). He didn't really wanna fight Smoker from the beginning, and only did so because Smoker engaged him. Smoker was *far more* serious.


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## Firo (Dec 1, 2014)

Nah, he was fighting Smoker while that happened. He was caught off guard by his fruit it seems but still we cant take that away from Smoker.


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## Dr. White (Dec 1, 2014)

Firo said:


> Nah, he was fighting Smoker while that happened. He was caught off guard by his fruit it seems but still we cant take that away from Smoker.



Eh idk.

to me it seems like Smoker and used that moment of surprise to attack Law from a different angle. It's say it's way more of a cunning feat than anything.


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## Urouge (Dec 1, 2014)

Nah iirc smoker pinned down law after he blocked his slashes. He got behind with his powers. You don't get your attacks blocked and nearly lose in a freaking midd diff fight.


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