# rasengan vs susano



## Shinobi no Kami (Jul 30, 2015)

i was thinking about this and i wondered if there were still people that think that big ball rasengan was "destroying" madaras ribcage susano in this instance.


and if there were people that think that chou odama frs, or even a normal rasenshuriken completely vaporizes V2 and V3 susano despite it not even being able to bring down madara enough for him to be sealed by hashiramas own admission.



so now, what do people think the results would be from these clashes?


chou odama rasengan vs ribcage susano

chou odama rasengan vs skeletal susano(V2)

chou odama rasengan vs complete susano(V3)

sm rasenshuriken vs ribcage susano

sm rasenshuriken vs skeletal susano(V2)

sm rasenshuriken vs complete susano(V3)

sm chou odama rasenshuriken vs ribcage susano

sm chou odama rasenshuriken vs skeletal susano(V2)

sm chou odama rasenshuriken vs complete susano(V3)


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## Trojan (Jul 30, 2015)

Rassengan > Your favourite jutsu.

Proven over and over again.


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## Duhul10 (Jul 30, 2015)

if it is senpou chou oodama rasengan that Jiraiya had, which is filled with senjutsu, it most probably breaks the ribcage and maybe even cracks skeletal susanoo given the hype it has, though i do not think it can do anything to a complete susanoo.
SM Rasenshuriken it is pretty tricky to say because once it completely desintegrated human path's body and once it did not even harmed Beastkage, so i will say it can get past skeletal susanoo, but nothing more.
SM Chou rasenshuriken imo overpowers even v3 susanoo, though i am not sure.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 30, 2015)

Senpou Chou Odaama Rasengan might break through Ribcage Susano'o but it wouldn't be able to kill the user because Susano'o would soak most of the damage anyways.

V2 would tank that shit no problem.

SM FRS would destroy Ribcage and might inflict some damage to V2 but I am not sure if it could completely destroy it. I honestly don't think so as FRS doesn't have any feats to suggest otherwise. 
V3 tanks it no problem.


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## Raiken (Jul 30, 2015)

It's heavily implied that the strength of ones Chakra can have an effect on the durability of Susano'o.

Edo-Madara's Susano'o Ribcage was only sustaining cracks from blows recieved from Byakugou Tsunade.
MS Sasuke's Susano'o Ribcage was fully bypassed by A's V2 Raiton Armour palm strike.
And to finish off! A firmly acknowledged that Tsunade was stronger than he was.
Which outright confirms that Susano'o durability differentiates between the power of the user.
Just because someone V1 Susano'o tanked something doesn't mean every Uchiha's V1 Susano'o can tank it.

So just because Edo-Madara's Susano'o Ribcage managing to hold off a Base Naruto's Cho-Oodama Rasengan for a few seconds, doesn't mean that...

1. It would have held strong for much longer, as he instantly entered an Icomplete Body "V2" Susano'o immediately after.
So what, Edo-Madara's V2 > Base Cho-Oodama Rasengan =? Edo-Madara's V1  

2. That other Susano'o ribcages would even be able to withstand it like Madara's did.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 30, 2015)

The version Madara used against Tsunade was a higher stage than ribcage. Somewhere between Ribcage and V2. 
The only time his lesser ribcage(the one Sasuke used) withstood a blow from Tsunade was when Tsunade tried to attack him with Susanoo's sword.

I don't think Susano'o differs in durability. There is no evidence regarding that.


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## Bonly (Jul 30, 2015)

Chou Odama Rasengan could prolly get through Rib cage while doing some damage to V2+V3 Susanoo while FRS could prolly destroy Susanoo V1-V3


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## Deer Lord (Jul 30, 2015)

I think:
V4 Sussano > COFRS >V3 Sussano > FRS > V2 Sussano > COR >= Ribcage


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## ForzaRoma (Jul 30, 2015)

SM: COR stops at V2.

FRS stops at V4.


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## Raiken (Jul 30, 2015)

ForzaRoma said:


> SM: COR stops at V2.
> 
> FRS stops at V4.


I think a COFRS would take out a V4 Susano'o, at least the standard V4.

Not this V4 though.


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## KeyofMiracles (Jul 30, 2015)

> chou odama rasengan vs ribcage susano


Susanoo is obliterated and the user is killed.



> chou odama rasengan vs skeletal susano(V2)



Moderate damage to Susanoo at best.



> chou odama rasengan vs complete susano(V3)



Susanoo tanks with no damage.



> sm rasenshuriken vs ribcage susano



Susanoo is obliterated and the user is killed.



> sm rasenshuriken vs skeletal susano(V2)
> 
> sm rasenshuriken vs complete susano(V3)



Susanoo is obliterated, user is killed w/ V2, survives w/ v3.



> sm chou odama rasenshuriken vs ribcage susano
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Susanoo is obliterated and the user is killed.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 30, 2015)

Cryorex said:


> I think a COFRS would take out a V4 Susano'o, at least the standard V4.
> 
> Not this V4 though.


I agree with Cryorex, Danzo's enhanced (Baku) wind vacuum blades took off the back armor of a V3 Susano (MS Sasuke), FRS should topple it, COFRS (considerably larger FRS) should topple a normal V4.

Rasengan's feats vary though, that is something that should be taken into consideration.

I don't expect Kakashi's Rasengan to do anything close to Minato's Rasengan as far as damage capacity is concerned. 

And I fully expect VOTE2 Naruto's Palm Rasengan (used against Sasuke's Enton Chidori) to do significantly more damage than SM Jiraiya's Senpo: Odama Rasengan (regardless of size, Naruto's chakra is more powerful).

An interesting question is whether you think KCM Naruto's palm rasengan is superior to SM Naruto's palm Rasengan? You're talking about Kurama's chakra vs. Natural Energy Inflation, we've seen historically that kurama's chakra increased the potency of Rasengan (since VOTE1), but a Senpo Rasengan is beastly in the hand of the super hulk Sage Naruto.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 30, 2015)

I can see Madara's V3 Susano'o tanking  a Kurama Enhanced FRS from KCM Naruto seeing as how Madara's V3 Susano'o managed to soak up the damage from Hirudora in which the diffusion of the air pressure is far greater than the scale of the explosions caused by KCM Naruto's FRS. Admittedly though, it's hard to say because FRS has a nature affinity that has the highest penetrative force, so it could potentially pierce through it, but the explosion shouldn't actually bust through it.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 30, 2015)

Well, then you get into the debate of whether or not Ei's Super Weighted Strike is superior to FRS in power, because it busted right through and out the other end of Madara's Susano [1]. 

I'm not about to agree with something that radical, especially considering Danzo's Vacuum Blades eviscerated the back of Sasuke's Susano.

FRS in my opinion is superior to those techniques in power.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 31, 2015)

Susanoo is ridiculously overhyped in terms of defense in its lower forms.

I mean, if Danzo's casual Fūton technique could leave an opening in a V3 Susanoo to attack with, Rasenshuriken - a technique that incapacitated Kurama for some time and was hyped to hell by Nine-Tail Chakra Mode Naruto himself - would utterly decimate it with no issue.

Only V4 would protect the user from Rasenshuriken, and a Chō Odama Rasenshuriken would wipe it clean off the map. C'mon now, the detonation of that technique was greatly visible to shinobi in the center of a *200-kilometer* crater where the explosion detonated at its edge. That's just the size, accounting for its chakra needles is a whole 'nother ball game.

Even Senpō: Chō Odama Rasengan would destroy the ribcage and damage V2.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 31, 2015)

Actually Rasengan is more overrated than Susano'o, because Susano'o has actual hype and Rasengan is pretty shit in that department. Featwise, even worse I'd say.


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## Raiken (Jul 31, 2015)

I think it's more likely that the durability of Susano'o can vary between the strength of the users Chakra.

Sasuke was low on Chakra and Mei's acid was melting Sasuke's Susano'o. Sasuke charged his Chakra into Susano'o to repair it and go up a level, but failed because he was so fucked.

Danzou's enhanced B Rank Fuuton Technique heavily damaged Sasuke's V3 Susano'o, so maybe with the Baku it was the equivalent to an A Rank Fuuton Technique.
FRS is S Rank Fuuton Technique, you think that won't completely destroy a V3 Ssuano'o? Maybe not Madara's but Sasuke's


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 31, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Actually Rasengan is more overrated than Susano'o, because Susano'o has actual hype and Rasengan is pretty shit in that department. Featwise, even worse I'd say.



Susanoo's hype went out the window the moment a technique from a shinobi who doesnt even remotely approach a chakra powerhouse like Sage Jiraiya/Naruto managed to bypass it. I think it's pretty obvious that Jiraiya's Senpo: Chō Odama Rasengan would destroy Madara's ribcage; I don't see Tsunade's *casual* physical strikes being more or even as powerful than the ultimate technique of a shinobi she's supposedly equal to.

Naruto's is even stronger.

Also, regarding Rasenshuriken and V3: put it this way, does anyone really think Ā's punch combined with Ōnoki's's weighted technique is stronger than *twenty-seven* of Naruto's Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan? Rasenshuriken is.

That's tantamount to saying the combined efforts of Ā and Ōnoki _without_ Jinton is dozens of times more powerful than the best of what Jiraiya can muster. Absolute nonsense.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 31, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Susanoo's hype went out the window the moment a technique from a shinobi who doesnt even remotely approach a chakra powerhouse like Sage Jiraiya/Naruto managed to bypass it. I think it's pretty obvious that Jiraiya's Senpo: Chō Odama Rasengan would destroy Madara's ribcage; I don't see Tsunade's *casual* physical strikes being more or even as powerful than the ultimate technique of a shinobi she's supposedly equal to.
> [


I'd say it would destroy the ribcage but wouldn't lethaly harm the user. I'm talking about the most basic ribcage BTW, not the one Tsunade cracked. That would be able to tank Senpou Chou Odaama rasengan without much problems. 
V2 would just slap it away.



> Also, regarding Rasenshuriken and V3: put it this way, does anyone really think Ā's punch combined with Ōnoki's's weighted technique is stronger than *twenty-seven* of Naruto's Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan? Rasenshuriken is.


Absolutely. Rasenshurikens best feat is ? 



> That's tantamount to saying the combined efforts of Ā and Ōnoki _without_ Jinton is dozens of times more powerful than the best of what Jiraiya can muster. Absolute nonsense.


Both A and Onoki are individually stronger than Jiraiya so it actually makes sense that Onoki's boost to A's forte would indeed make their combined effort magnitudes stronger than anything Jiraiya can single handedly dish out.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 31, 2015)

> I'd say it would destroy the ribcage but wouldn't lethaly harm the user


I'm not understanding, it destroys the ribcage, but suddenly disappears and doesn't harm the user behind it?

Rasengan is a constant stream chakra technique, it doesn't disappear unless it's overpowered and blown apart by an opposing technique, or the user stops molding chakra into it. If a Susano is destroyed by Rasengan, the Rasengan will continue moving forward and hit the Uchiha. 

Now you're questioning FRS' feats? It put 50% Kurama on his ass and momentarily paralyzed him, when this didn't [1] [2]. It legit proved FRS was > 20+ Senpo Chou Odama Rasengan. 

Your Uchiha wank is blatant man.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 31, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Well, then you get into the debate of whether or not Ei's Super Weighted Strike is superior to FRS in power, because it busted right through and out the other end of Madara's Susano [1].
> 
> I'm not about to agree with something that radical, especially considering Danzo's Vacuum Blades eviscerated the back of Sasuke's Susano.
> 
> FRS in my opinion is superior to those techniques in power.



 I was referring to the Susano'o Madara used against Gai and the Hachibi which is simply a far bigger version of V3 Susano'o.

 This version was the one that Weighted Ei blew through: trees

 Which logically, FRS should be able to pierce through it.

 Though I did admit that a Kurama Enhanced FRS from KCM Naruto can pierce through his Susano'o, but the actual explosion shouldn't bust through it IMO.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 31, 2015)

I don't see a big difference in size [1] [2]

They're both V3 non-legged Susano, one may be slightly shorter but that's about it, they are both the same level of Susano.

I believe FRS pretty much completely topples it, and again that's because FRS is > 20 Senpo Chou Odama Rasengan, and Danzo vaporized the back of Sasuke's V3.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 31, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> I don't see a big difference in size [1] [2]
> 
> They're both V3 non-legged Susano, one may be slightly shorter but that's about it, they are both the same level of Susano.



 It's difficult to say. V3 Susano'o looks at least to be roughly half the size of the Hachibi there and that's not even taking into consideration how Madara's Susano'o is curved due to Hirudora's Momentum. 

 It's also important to note that Hirudora didn't completely engulf Madara's Susano'o considering Hirudora is roughly this size at it's initial release:

 [2]


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 31, 2015)

I wouldn't say half the size, you could argue half it's height, but it's overall size is considerably larger especially if you consider the tails. You're also looking at Hachibi from arguably 100m away- while Madara looks like he's like 10m away from our view, look at Naruto's chakra arm still there- that arm caught the Susano blade. 

Hachibi is also obviously hunched down because the Mokuton is constricting him. 

The best way to measure it is by looking at Madara's body in both captions.

Madara's are weird though, here he's using a mixture of a V2 (skeleton ribs/spine/shoulders), V3 (arms/hands/head look muscular) and he even has partial skeleton legs here (hips). I think the guy can just make it as big as he wants at any given time, mixing bones/muscle and what not in. This one looks bigger than either of those  if we consider Madara's body size inside of all of them in proportion to the size of the Susanos, certainly a wider chest and longer.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 31, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I'd say it would destroy the ribcage but wouldn't lethaly harm the user. I'm talking about the most basic ribcage BTW, not the one Tsunade cracked. That would be able to tank Senpou Chou Odaama rasengan without much problems.
> V2 would just slap it away.



So, Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan just disappears after breaking through the ribcage? Really? 

And the ribcage that Tsunade broke through _is_ what I'm talking about. You know, the one she kicked through without much trouble. Do you think Sage Jiraiya, her supposed equal if not better, wouldn't do the same with his far-and-away strongest technique?

C'mon, now.



> Absolutely. Rasenshurikens best feat is ?



Incapacitating the strongest Bijū for a good period of time and outdoing twenty-seven mountain busters, one of which surpasses the highest firepower of a mid-level Kage.

Yielding an explosion whilst uncompressed that was also bigger than the entire village of Konoha.

Tell me, what do you think would happen if Ā and Ōnoki struck Kurama in the chest? Annoy him somewhat?



> Both A and Onoki are individually stronger than Jiraiya so it actually makes sense that Onoki's boost to A's forte would indeed make their combined effort magnitudes stronger than anything Jiraiya can single handedly dish out.



First off, we're talking *firepower*-specific; none of Ā's physical hits, full-speed or otherwise, are greater than Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan. What puts him over Jiraiya is his speed, not destructive capacity. Secondly, this is also an Ōnoki _without_ Jinton.

Secondly, if I remember correctly, Tsunade's kick did more damage than Ā and Ōnoki's combination technique. Are you really going to claim she deals more damage than  Rasenshuriken?


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## ARGUS (Jul 31, 2015)

Chou Oodama Rasegnga (COR) eradicates ribcaage and damages V2, V3 tanks it with no damages

FRS busts through all of them and so does COFRS 
for FRS only V3 susanoo helpsthe usr live, whilst for COFRS the user dies either  way

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## UchihaX28 (Aug 1, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> I wouldn't say half the size, you could argue half it's height, but it's overall size is considerably larger especially if you consider the tails. You're also looking at Hachibi from arguably 100m away- while Madara looks like he's like 10m away from our view, look at Naruto's chakra arm still there- that arm caught the Susano blade.
> 
> Hachibi is also obviously hunched down because the Mokuton is constricting him.
> 
> ...



 It's difficult to say, but BM Naruto's arm was roughly the size of Madara's miniature V3 Susano'o which seems to be roughly the size of the Susano'o used against Onoki + Ei's combined technique. 

 In one of the preceding pages, you can clearly see BM Naruto's Arm is fully extended whereas his Arm was bent at almost a 90 degree angle (slightly greater) if I remember correctly when he countered Madara's Miniature V3 Susano'o. Factor in the fact that Madara's Susano'o that tanked Hirudora appeared to be triple the height of BM Naruto's arm (when fully extended  upwards) and that gives me reason to assume Madara used a stronger variation of Susano'o.

 I do agree though. Madara's Susano'o is odd ....


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## Raiken (Aug 1, 2015)

Well with Rasengan/FRS it goes:

Also for Sage Techniques, usually they are equal in size to the Kyuubi Chakra equivalent.

Now I would say it's like this:

SCO-FRS > CO-FRS = SO-FRS > O-FRS > FRS >> SCO-R > CO-R = SO-R > O-R > R

For Susano'o:

FB = Full Body
G = Giant

Before you read, I think that V4 >> V3 while V3 > V2.
V5 > GFB-V4 > G-V4 = GFB-V3 >> V4 = FB-V3 > FB-V2 > V3 => V2 w/ Muscle/Skin => V2 > V1 w/ Muscle > V1

Now where does each fit in with each other?

I'm thinking:

V5 > GFB-V4 > G-V4 = GFB-V3 = SCO-FRS > SO-FRS CO-FRS > V4 = FB-V3 = O-FRS > FB-V2 = FRS > V3 = SCO-R => V2 w/ Muscle/Skin => SO-R = CO-R = V2 > V1 w/ Muscle = O-R > V1 = R

I think that scaling above is pretty accurate.

What do you guys think about that last one though?
Say Naruto charges at MS Sasuke in his V1 Susano'o, just purely the ribs no muscle, with a Rasengan and Sasuke tries to tank to hit.
I think a normal Rasengan could break through a rib or two just like A's Palm Strike did. I mean, the damage A's single hits were doing to people when they made contact are probably comparable to what a full direct hit from a normal Rasengan does, difference between the Rasengan and A though is that A's attack and damage happen in an instant, Naruto has to dash at his target, and after impact the damage isn't instant, it takes a few seconds to get all the damage in.
But as far as how much pure damage a direct hit causes from each, it's probably around equal, I'd say V2 Lightning Armour Strike > Rasengan > V1 Lightning Armour Strike.

Also, what about the standard sized Bijuu Dama VS SCO-FRS?
Like


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 1, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> So, Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan just disappears after breaking through the ribcage? Really?


Yes, it loses its momentum and energy and the user won't recieve full damage because Susano'o would soak up most of it.



> And the ribcage that Tsunade broke through _is_ what I'm talking about. You know, the one she kicked through without much trouble. Do you think Sage Jiraiya, her supposed equal if not better, wouldn't do the same with his far-and-away strongest technique?


Tsunade didn't break ribcage with just a kick. She punched it and cracked it, and then Mei's water dragon hit it, and then Tsuande and A hit it @ the same time.



> C'mon, now.


You come on now.



> Incapacitating the strongest Bijū for a good period of time and outdoing twenty-seven mountain busters, one of which surpasses the highest firepower of a mid-level Kage.


Mountain buster argument is worse than Amaterasu being as hot as the sun. 
It didn't do any visible damage to Kyuubi either.



> Yielding an explosion whilst uncompressed that was also bigger than the entire village of Konoha.


Wut ? 


> Tell me, what do you think would happen if Ā and Ōnoki struck Kurama in the chest? Annoy him somewhat?


Maybe a bit more than annoy him, which is what FRS did. Mess up his fur maybe ? 



> First off, we're talking *firepower*-specific; none of Ā's physical hits, full-speed or otherwise, are greater than Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan. What puts him over Jiraiya is his speed, not destructive capacity. Secondly, this is also an Ōnoki _without_ Jinton.


and this is relevant how ? 



> Secondly, if I remember correctly, Tsunade's kick did more damage than Ā and Ōnoki's combination technique. Are you really going to claim she deals more damage than  Rasenshuriken?



No it didn't. 
A and Onoki's combined hit threw a more complete version of Susano'o than the one Tsunade partially broke like 50 meters through the valley and if you notice the impact of A's hit threw even Madara off inside the Susano'o.

Tsunade + A's hit didn't do as much damage to a lesser Susano'o.


Seriously rasengan is heavily overrated.



DaVizWiz said:


> I'm not understanding, it destroys the ribcage, but suddenly disappears and doesn't harm the user behind it?
> 
> Rasengan is a constant stream chakra technique, it doesn't disappear unless it's overpowered and blown apart by an opposing technique, or the user stops molding chakra into it. If a Susano is destroyed by Rasengan, the Rasengan will continue moving forward and hit the Uchiha.
> 
> ...



So you are saying that Sasuke's neck is tougher than Ribcage Susano'o.

I think your Uchiha wank just surpassed everyone.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 1, 2015)

Susano'o repairs if the user keeps supplying enough Chakra, Grimmjowsensei.

You can see that the dent and cracks have disappeared by the time it's spit out of the water dragon _(1)_.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 1, 2015)

Then it is still Mei's attack + Tsunade's kick + A's weight modified karate chop.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 1, 2015)

The water dragon didn't do anything besides eat the ribcage then push it into the air, and Ay's chop didn't make the side Tsunade hit any less durable.

It acted as a brace of sorts, but anything on the opposite side, like the ground, would have done that.

Tsūtenkyaku vs. Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan?


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## Lawrence777 (Aug 1, 2015)

These panels implied to me Senpo FRS wouldn't be capable of destroying V3[1][2] at least IMO that was what was meant to be taken away from that whole sequence.

I think people are also overlooking that some V3 have shields whereas Madara's was dual wielding swords. I think if an attack is blocked then it's going to need substantially more energy to get through and still destroy V3. A blocked FRS has zero chance of destroying a V3 imo.

Now a COFRS though would destroy V3 shield or not and pending whether it is successfully blocked potentially destroy V4. 

For just Senpo FRS and attacks below it's level though it's my opinion the author told us they wouldn't destroy V3. If it would, Gaara's actions of pulling him outside Susano'o are completely redundant. FRS may damage a V3, but I don't see it destroying a V3+ by any stretch of the imagination .


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 1, 2015)

That's one way to look at it Lawrence, another would be Naruto used the attack directly on a more durable entity (50% Kurama) and it worked. 

Gaara pulling him out and believing V3 Susano is invincible means nothing to me, especially considering he's never even witnessed Flying Rasen Shuriken once.

Danzo cut open the back of a V3 with suction wind blades, leaving Sasuke defenseless. FRS is several times more powerful than that attack, it would topple a V3.


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## Lawrence777 (Aug 1, 2015)

> Danzo cut open the back of a V3 with suction wind blades, leaving Sasuke defenseless. FRS is several times more powerful than that attack, it would topple a V3.


That's the main counter evidence imo because I honestly do believe a senjutsu-amped version of an already more powerful futon should logically do more damage. I don't believe it's asinine to reach the conclusion FRS > V3 from that line of reasoning. I just feel the scene with Gaara and author's intent contradicts that reasoning almost to the point of it being a retcon.

I'm not doubting the feat, as matter of fact if that Gaara scene never happened and it was pure speculation I'd probably say it could destroy V3(no shield) based off what Danzo did with a significantly weaker futon. 

But I believe the feats in this *specific* case are secondary because the author all but directly told us  V3 would in fact tank FRS. Short of it actually happening(being tanked), I don't know how the author could of made it more clear that SM Naruto needed Gaara to remove Madara from V3 for his Senpo: FRS to be successful. Author intent is more important than Gaara's own knowledge, and I think what we're supposed to take from it was adequately shown. 

So the portrayal supersedes the feat imo, because feats are for when we need to speculate and guesstimate what would happen; we don't need to do that here, because Kishi told us what would happen. Again though, I want to make the point I don't think it's crazy to just use feats.


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## ARGUS (Aug 1, 2015)

FRS >>>> Danzos futon that breached V3 and left sasuke open for his attack

Not only that but it's on the same echelon as hirudora which canonically obliterated V3 and pushed madara back to an extent where his control over the mokuton was completely gone

We have already seen how powerful a single FRS is, 
One regular rasengan from Naruto has enough power to hollow out big boulders 
Now we have COR that data book hyped up to be capable to hollow out a small mountain. Now there are 25 of them and there is a senjutsu boost to them, making an attack of this level very capable to blow a hole on a mountain, 
Despite all that kurama shrugged off and swept aside the rasengan as if they were nothing 
Yet when the FRS landed. Kurama was pushed down and left damaged for a while which allowed Naruto to pull his chakra out, 
Showing that FRS >> 25 SM COR >> Danzos Futon
And this is an entity that's far far more durable than V3 susanoo, 
V3 gets wrecked by FRS considering how potent and concentrated it is


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## ATastyMuffin (Aug 3, 2015)

People at least agree that Naruto's Rasenshuriken would absolutely pulverize *Sasuke*'s V3, right? 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Yes, it loses its momentum and energy and the user won't recieve full damage because Susano'o would soak up most of it.



Going to have to agree to disagree then, because I believe the difference between Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan and Tsunade's kick is big enough to at least severely injure if not kill Madara.



> Tsunade didn't break ribcage with just a kick. She punched it and cracked it, and then Mei's water dragon hit it, and then Tsuande and A hit it @ the same time.



As stated by another poster, the cracks had disappeared by the time Ā and Ōnoki started their second assault, meaning it required only Tsunade's kick to break the ribcage's front.

No, it's not "it took both Tsunade's kick and Ā/Ōnoki's combined attacks to destroy the ribcage"; the latter attacked Madara's six o'clock and only cracked the ribcage, meaning all it did was serve as a brace for Tsunade's kick much in the same way the ground would have. The point of it was that Tsunade's strike wouldn't just launch Madara even further away. Think of if a thin rectangular block of wood sat on a table and you punched it. Without a brace it'd bounce away. But if someone held it, it'd be easier for you to break in half. Same concept with Tsunade.



> Mountain buster argument is worse than Amaterasu being as hot as the sun.
> It didn't do any visible damage to Kyuubi either.



But it isn't. Senpō: Ōdama Rasengan is already calculated as a town-buster, the chances of a much stronger iteration being a city/mountain-buster isn't outlandish or far-fetched in the least. Even if we assumed Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan's destructive output was only equivalent to its inferior, Rasenshuriken outdid *twenty-seven* town-busters. I can't see Ā/Ōnoki's punch being even close to as powerful.

And you know Amaterasu being as hot as the sun isn't that ridiculous, right? Senpō: Goemon is stated to be "_thousands of degrees hot_"; the surface of the sun is only 5000 degrees.

No, Rasenshuriken does incredibly focused damage, hence why it only seemed as if Kyūbi was singed, but what we DO know is that it was so damaging that Kyūbi couldn't even get back up after the blast. It still couldn't rise even as Sage Naruto started pulling out its chakra, forcing it resort to the evil-chakra-method.




> Wut?



Chibaku Tensei crater was calculated at 13 kilometers wide, Rasenshuriken's explosion occupied over half of that. Konoha itself is only 5 kilometers wide.



> Maybe a bit more than annoy him, which is what FRS did. Mess up his fur maybe ?



You did also see Kyūbi screaming like a bitch after being hit, right? Rasenshuriken did some good damage. You think Ā/Ōnoki's hit would make the Bijū react as such, and be out of the fight for a good period of time? Really? Get serious.



> and this is relevant how?



It is very relevant. You argued because Ā and Ōnoki are superior to Jiraiya overall as Kage-class shinobi, it's only logical that their powers combined would exceed Jiraiya's destructive capacity by over a factor of twenty-seven (that alone sounds hilarious).

However, you fail to take into account that Ā is only stronger than Jiraiya because of speed, not power. But comparing Ā/Ōnoki's attack to Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan is a matter of purely *destructive capacity*, and in said comparison, Ōnoki isn't using Jinton (which is the only reason he's stronger than Jiraiya). Mentioning Ā and Ōnoki's general superiority to Jiraiya as a fighter isn't relevant in an issue solely focused on destructive power, let alone such that would allow for a difference of over *twenty-seven* times.



> No it didn't.
> A and Onoki's combined hit threw a more complete version of Susano'o than the one Tsunade partially broke like 50 meters through the valley and if you notice the impact of A's hit threw even Madara off inside the Susano'o.
> 
> Tsunade + A's hit didn't do as much damage to a lesser Susano'o.



You're aware that Ā's second hit on the V3 was also a combined hit with Ōnoki, right?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 4, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Going to have to agree to disagree then, because I believe the difference between Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan and Tsunade's kick is big enough to at least severely injure if not kill Madara.


Since there is no evidence regarding that, I'll have to disagree.



> As stated by another poster, the cracks had disappeared by the time Ā and Ōnoki started their second assault, meaning it required only Tsunade's kick to break the ribcage's front.


And like I said, then it was Mei's water dragon + Tsunade + A.



> No, it's not "it took both Tsunade's kick and Ā/Ōnoki's combined attacks to destroy the ribcage"; the latter attacked Madara's six o'clock and only cracked the ribcage, meaning all it did was serve as a brace for Tsunade's kick much in the same way the ground would have. The point of it was that Tsunade's strike wouldn't just launch Madara even further away. Think of if a thin rectangular block of wood sat on a table and you punched it. Without a brace it'd bounce away. But if someone held it, it'd be easier for you to break in half. Same concept with Tsunade.


Ground wouldn't replicate that, no.
I am pretty sure A hitting Susano'o from behind would generate more pressure than Tsunade's kick alone and would, as the ground would break and the pressure would be distrubuted around a greater surface area.




> But it isn't. Senpō: Ōdama Rasengan is already calculated as a town-buster, the chances of a much stronger iteration being a city/mountain-buster isn't outlandish or far-fetched in the least. Even if we assumed Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan's destructive output was only equivalent to its inferior, Rasenshuriken outdid *twenty-seven* town-busters. I can't see Ā/Ōnoki's punch being even close to as powerful.
> 
> And you know Amaterasu being as hot as the sun isn't that ridiculous, right? Senpō: Goemon is stated to be "_thousands of degrees hot_"; the surface of the sun is only 5000 degrees.


Bro, don't throw calculations at me. They aren't in the manga, so they are irrelevant.




> No, Rasenshuriken does incredibly focused damage, hence why it only seemed as if Kyūbi was singed, but what we DO know is that it was so damaging that Kyūbi couldn't even get back up after the blast. It still couldn't rise even as Sage Naruto started pulling out its chakra, forcing it resort to the evil-chakra-method.


We have seen what kind of damage it does on things that can't tank it. It is basically incredibly fast spinning wind chakra, and visually it didn't damage Kyuubi much, as it didn't damage cerebrus, or raikage despite briefly knocking them over.




> Chibaku Tensei crater was calculated at 13 kilometers wide, Rasenshuriken's explosion occupied over half of that. Konoha itself is only 5 kilometers wide.


Like I said, calculations are meaningless, but I'll just brush that off as an outlier because it contradicts with every other feat of Rasengan shuriken anyways. 
And not that it matters, it is just debris flying around. We've seen rasen shurikens limits on Human realm, on Kyuubi, Cerebrus or Raikage. 



> You did also see Kyūbi screaming like a bitch after being hit, right? Rasenshuriken did some good damage. You think Ā/Ōnoki's hit would make the Bijū react as such, and be out of the fight for a good period of time? Really? Get serious.


Cerebrus also screamed like a bitch but it was fine afterwards.
Overrated jutsu is overrated.




> It is very relevant. You argued because Ā and Ōnoki are superior to Jiraiya overall as Kage-class shinobi, it's only logical that their powers combined would exceed Jiraiya's destructive capacity by over a factor of twenty-seven (that alone sounds hilarious).


"By a factor of twenty seven part" is hilarious  but Naruto's FRS is right ? 
So why not Onoki and Raikage combined ? 



> However, you fail to take into account that Ā is only stronger than Jiraiya because of speed, not power. But comparing Ā/Ōnoki's attack to Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan is a matter of purely *destructive capacity*, and in said comparison, Ōnoki isn't using Jinton (which is the only reason he's stronger than Jiraiya). Mentioning Ā and Ōnoki's general superiority to Jiraiya as a fighter isn't relevant in an issue solely focused on destructive power, let alone such that would allow for a difference of over *twenty-seven* times.


I'd say A's V2 punch would generate greater damage than anything Jiraiya can dish out, including his big rasengan.



> QUOTE]
> You're aware that Ā's second hit on the V3 was also a combined hit with Ōnoki, right?


Yeah, but he wasn't on running on foot, meaning he wasn't @ his top speed, unlike the time he hit Madara's V2.


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## ATastyMuffin (Aug 4, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Since there is no evidence regarding that, I'll have to disagree.



Alright, but you at least agree that it would destroy the ribcage at the very least, yes?



> And like I said, then it was Mei's water dragon + Tsunade + A.



Mei's Suiryūdan didn't inflict any visible damage nor was it it implied to. Nor is Suiryūdan a particularly damaging or destructive technique to begin with.



> Ground wouldn't replicate that, no.
> *I am pretty sure A hitting Susano'o from behind would generate more pressure than Tsunade's kick alone* and would, as the ground would break and the pressure would be distrubuted around a greater surface area.



Excuse me? 



> Bro, don't throw calculations at me. They aren't in the manga, so they are irrelevant.



Unless you have specific reasons for discrediting calculations or proof that the ones provided by myself in this debate are contradictory, dismissing them is, in essence, a concession. 

Even just pertaining to visual evidence, Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan as a mountain or city-buster is not at all preposterous. A much weaker, non-senjutsu-amped version yielded an enormous crater just by impacting Itachi; Killer Bee casually launching himself at Team Taka obliterated a hill. Rasenshuriken's uncompressed explosion was multiple kilometers wide. So why is Senpō: Chō Ōdama Rasengan, a mid-tier Kage's strongest move, being just that powerful hard to swallow?



> We have seen what kind of damage it does on things that can't tank it. It is basically incredibly fast spinning wind chakra,



Yeah we did, like Human Path. It was freakin' *vaporized*.



> and visually it didn't damage Kyuubi much, as it didn't damage cerebrus, or raikage despite briefly knocking them over.



You're not getting it. Visually, what Rasenshuriken shows to inflict is irrelevant; it's a given fact that it was highly damaging to the strongest Bijū because said Bijū was *unable to rise* from the blast after being hit. 

You do understand that reacting as such to an attack means severe damage was inflicted right?



> Like I said, calculations are meaningless, but I'll just brush that off as an outlier because it contradicts with every other feat of Rasengan shuriken anyways.



Nope, it isn't an outlier, because that was the only time Rasenshuriken has ever detonated without being compressed into a wind sphere, meaning its explosion in the Chibaku Tensei crater was its latent destructive capacity. 



> And not that it matters, it is just debris flying around. We've seen rasen shurikens limits on Human realm, on Kyuubi, Cerebrus or Raikage.



When the explosion is *six kilometers wide?* Do you understand the implications of launching debris hundreds of meters if not kilometers large into the air in a single second? By calculations alone, the kinetic energy required for that is city-level.

The size of the explosion in and of itself should tell you it's stronger than freakin' Ā/Ōnoki's combined attack. 

Raikage is simply that durable - yes, more durable than the Kyūbi itself. 



> Cerebrus also screamed like a bitch but it was fine afterwards.
> Overrated jutsu is overrated.



That's because Cerberus is capable of multiplying so any damage done is moot.

How you didn't grasp this when reading said chapter is beyond me.



> "By a factor of twenty seven part" is hilarious  but Naruto's FRS is right ?
> So why not Onoki and Raikage combined ?



Because firstly, I consider Sage Naruto a high-tier Kage, while Jiraiya/Ā/Ōnoki are collectively a tier below.

Secondly and more importantly, Ā isn't renowned for his destructive capacity nor is an Ōnoki *without* Jinton. Sage Naruto's ultimate technique being that much stronger than Jiraiya's make much more sense in comparison, and it has evidence to back it up.



> I'd say A's V2 punch would generate greater damage than anything Jiraiya can dish out, including his big rasengan.



Ā's strongest punch: 



Zero-Tailed Naruto's Ōdama Rasengan:



They're pretty comparable, no? And Naruto's Ōdama Rasengan wasn't even directly impacting the ground. 



> Yeah, but he wasn't on running on foot, meaning he wasn't @ his top speed, unlike the time he hit Madara's V2.



Actually, fair.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 4, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Alright, but you at least agree that it would destroy the ribcage at the very least, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'll just adress a few points.

1 - I was comparing A's hit to the ground as a brace. I didn't mean to say that A's hit alone would generate more pressure than Tsunade's kick.

2 - Calculations are meaningless because they are not in the manga. They don't belong anywhere else other than OBD.

3 - A's punch isn't an AOE technique, why are you comparing it to a rasengan ? 

A's V1 punch can drill through Juugo's shield and his body(and Juugo's physical strength creates creaters just as big as that Odaama rasengan you posted) . Naruto's rasengan doesn't inflict comparable damage to regular humans, let alone CS armor that can casually deflect Zabuza's cleaver.


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## Trojan (Aug 5, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Actually Rasengan is more overrated than Susano'o, because Susano'o has actual hype and Rasengan is pretty shit in that department. *Featwise, even worse I'd say.*



You don't know what you're talking about. U_U


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 5, 2015)

I do. 
10 char


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## Trojan (Aug 5, 2015)

If you do, you wouldn't have said that tho. Rassenan solos all and you know it. 

Pain's paths
3rd Raikage
Mu
Amatersu
Kurama
Momoshiki
the tank 
Obito
Wooden Dragon
Wooden attacks
JJ Obito's back
Hashirama's statue
Boss summons
mountains 
Zetsu

and so on and so forth. U_U


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## Arles Celes (Aug 6, 2015)

Cryorex said:


> I think it's more likely that the durability of Susano'o can vary between the strength of the users Chakra.
> 
> Sasuke was low on Chakra and Mei's acid was melting Sasuke's Susano'o. Sasuke charged his Chakra into Susano'o to repair it and go up a level, but failed because he was so fucked.
> 
> ...



The power between same ranked jutsus differs.

Guy's Evening Elephant is A rank...same as Naruto's regular rasengan. Kakashi's Raikiri is S rank...same rank as a Bijuu FRS.

What matters most is the power of a shinobi and how strong is his/hers chakra. And how much chakra is used in said jutsu.

Sasuke in part 1 could make only a small hole in a wall with chidori while his the Last self can destroy meteors with the same jutsu.

It could be that Danzou's B rank fuuton powered by Baku was close to senjutsu powered Oodama rasengan. The guy got Hashi's DNA powering him up and was certainly kage level even before said boost.


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## Raiken (Aug 6, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> The power between same ranked jutsus differs.
> 
> Guy's Evening Elephant is A rank...same as Naruto's regular rasengan. Kakashi's Raikiri is S rank...same rank as a Bijuu FRS.
> 
> ...


That is true, but Danzou's Fuuton Jutsu really didn't look that powerful.

I'm still confident in this, I think it's as accurate as you can get with Rasengan VS Susano'o:


> Now I would say it's like this:
> 
> SCO-FRS > CO-FRS = SO-FRS > O-FRS > FRS >> SCO-R > CO-R = SO-R > O-R > R
> 
> ...


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 6, 2015)

Lets just go with what we've seen and say that Danzo's fuuton(coupled with Baku's suction) is pound per pound stronger than Naruıto's FRS until proven otherwise.


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## Raiken (Aug 6, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Lets just go with what we've seen and say that Danzo's fuuton(coupled with Baku's suction) is pound per pound stronger than Naruıto's FRS until proven otherwise.


Erm... no

If FRS hit MS Sasuke's V3 Susano'o, it would be destroyed, end of.
Weather Sasuke survives or not, who knows... he probably would, maybe a little injured.
The only way MS Sasuke would have a chance against FRS would be to counter it with an arrow to send it off trajectory or make it trigger mid flight.


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## Icegaze (Aug 8, 2015)

@hussain that was Enton not amaterasu 

v4 susanoo did survive the combined explosion of FRS+BD+ YM 

But yes newb sasuke little V3 susanoo should get beaten if FRs hits it from the back 

From the front it has to go through a sturdier defense 

Shield +3 levels of chakra defense


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 8, 2015)

Cryorex said:


> Erm... no


Nice rebuttal.


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