# Zeref (Fairy Tail) vs One Piece



## Eyedea (Jan 21, 2017)

How far does he get?


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## FluffyEagles (Jan 21, 2017)

He loses badly to any Warlord worth a damn


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## EternalRage (Jan 21, 2017)

He beats Sabo or Sabo beats him, either way he stops there


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## Jag77 (Jan 22, 2017)

Sabo kills him


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## FluffyEagles (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> He beats Sabo or Sabo beats him, either way he stops there


He likely stops alot further below him. Sabo was holding his own against an admiral I don't think Zeref could get by most of the warlords who are all MHS, island level and have several hax to deal with him


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

FluffyEagles said:


> MHS, island level and have several hax


zeref has a country wide BFR, timestop, and he has mid regen

The top tiers kill him so he needs a high end high tier, Sabo

and Sabo has no way to leave timestop, and Zeref can't kill Sabo, so he stops there


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## Xadlin (Jan 22, 2017)

How does he fare against logia intangibility? 
cause if he has no defense against that, he stops at Alabasta Crocodile.


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## FluffyEagles (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> zeref has a country wide BFR, timestop, and he has mid regen
> 
> The top tiers kill him so he needs a high end high tier, Sabo
> 
> and Sabo has no way to leave timestop, and Zeref can't kill Sabo, so he stops there


that still leaves speedblitz+oneshotting as a problem


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Xadlin said:


> How does he fare against logia intangibility?
> cause if he has no defense against that, he stops at Alabasta Crocodile.


his death wave kills everything at his level



FluffyEagles said:


> that still leaves speedblitz+oneshotting as a problem


speedblitzing is a problem when Zeref is faster than Sabo


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## Xadlin (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> his death wave kills everything at his level


Even Sand? Or ice or Flame? Because logias become literally mixed with their element they fused with until haki(or in crocodiles case: water) is involved.
I have only seen him killing organic things around him. does he extinguish kinetic elements like fire?


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 22, 2017)

Zeref has mhs+ reactions, all the elements, timestop, teleportation, casual city level dc, can regen from even decapitation and has some more abilities that I'm sure I'm forgetting


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Xadlin said:


> Even Sand? Or ice or Flame? Because logias become literally mixed with their element they fused with until haki(or in crocodiles case: water) is involved.
> I have only seen him killing organic things around him. does he extinguish kinetic elements like fire?


oh, Zeref has water magic so it's irrelevant


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## Dellinger (Jan 22, 2017)

When did Zeref show water magic ?


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

White Hawk said:


> When did Zeref show water magic ?


August apparently knows every magic in FT, when that was stated it also said Zeref is second to August, also Zeref is probably the smartest and oldest person in FT, he made a time travelling machine when he was like 14 and a building that can revive people when he was like 7, and water magic is common

Zeref probably has water magic, if that's not accepted then as long as crocodile is "alive" in his own sand then the death wave would prob kill him


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## Xadlin (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> August apparently knows every magic in FT, when that was stated it also said Zeref is second to August, also Zeref is *probably* the smartest and oldest person in FT, he made a time travelling machine when he was like 14 and a country busting weapon later, water magic is common
> 
> Zeref probably has water magic, if that's not accepted then as long as crocodile is "alive" in his own sand then the death wave would prob kill him


Does that also apply for Kizaru? I find that very unlikely. Just like smoker, he can just dissapear and then reappear at will.
I'm also not up to date with Fairy Tale, so could you show me some feats zeref has done, that is evidence of the feats you have claimed.
I just need to know if he can hit a intangible person or not, that's all.


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## Dellinger (Jan 22, 2017)

Thing is according to official translations,Rayleigh cut Kizaru when the light man was already traveling through the Yata mirror.I don't know how fast does that make OP top tiers


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 22, 2017)

Zeref can control nature and Warrod used the magic Emo boy taught him to stop areas that were suffering from desertification


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## Keishin (Jan 22, 2017)

Whats the speed buff FT is getting from the meteorite feat? Also didn't Zeref stop time on couple of occasions.


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

Just... gonna sit here. And watch this. Because as soon as I saw the meteorite feat, I knew this was coming. OP, question. Did you put this up before or after you saw that meteorite feat?


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## Brolypotence (Jan 22, 2017)

How will anyone in One Piece put down Zeref since he's immortal and all


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## Steven (Jan 22, 2017)

zerefs blitz
or timestop and use deathwave


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## Bernkastel (Jan 22, 2017)

Brolypotence said:


> How will anyone in One Piece put down Zeref since he's immortal and all



Petrification,spatial hax,transumation,soul manipulation are ways of dealing with immortality.


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## howdy01 (Jan 22, 2017)

Just destroy the fgts body, I don't recall any regen feats for him. Zeref is small island lvl at best.


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## Keishin (Jan 22, 2017)

howdy01 said:


> Just destroy the fgts body, I don't recall any regen feats for him. Zeref is small island lvl at best.


Here is him regenerating and the better regeneration "feat" comes from him saying that even cutting his head off wouldn't kill him.


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## howdy01 (Jan 22, 2017)

He healed a few bruises, shit tier regen.
OK so let's say u cut his head off, how long does it take for him to get back to normal?


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## Jikaishin (Jan 22, 2017)

Hmm, didn't Zeref created Lullaby a demon who eats souls and he said nobody from his etherious could kill him so doesn't that mean he can't die from soul extraction and all the magic that the nine demon gates and Bloodman possess ?


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## Keishin (Jan 22, 2017)

howdy01 said:


> He healed a few bruises, shit tier regen.
> OK so let's say u cut his head off, how long does it take for him to get back to normal?


Would it matter what kind of damage it is? It seems like it will activate after a short period of time and he just automatically heals.


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Whats the speed buff FT is getting from the meteorite feat? Also didn't Zeref stop time on couple of occasions.


Mach 9k and possible a country level upgrade for DC


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## howdy01 (Jan 22, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Would it matter what kind of damage it is? It seems like it will activate after a short period of time and he just automatically heals.


yes if a large portion of his body is destroyed he is not regening it, and it would also matter how long it takes for him to regen his head or any other body part,  but from what was shown so far healing bruises instantly is not good enough


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## howdy01 (Jan 22, 2017)

there is no dc for that meteor from this chapter, maybe next chapter, has been made clear by waka that it's just visual upscaling.


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

His regen is irrelevant when he's faster than everyone besides top tiers and has a time stop, he just has no way to finish them off


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## AllAboveOne (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> Mach 9k and possible a country level upgrade for DC


Say what now ?


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## Keishin (Jan 22, 2017)

AllAboveOne said:


> Say what now ?


Look at the speed at which the meteorite entered with and Erza jumped at it after it entered Earth's atmosphere.

Next chapter she will probably destroy it too.


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

AllAboveOne said:


> Say what now ?


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 22, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Look at the speed at which the meteorite entered with and Erza jumped at it after it entered Earth's atmosphere.



Don't celestial objects immediately hit resistance when they come into an atmosphere, and slow down?

The meteor might be that fast when summoned from space, but then might slow down when it hits atmospheric resistance.


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## howdy01 (Jan 22, 2017)

look meng the calc will be redone, people already brought that up. So w8 for a few days for it to be done.


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## LazyWaka (Jan 22, 2017)

Considering how fast it's going any slowdown would be horribly miniscule.


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## Keishin (Jan 22, 2017)

That "explosion" it created should be the air moving out of the way so it should give some values similar to Saitama's punch.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

So uh... the meteor from Issho, which he did with ease and just "testing" his meteorites. That can't be scaled on a similar level to this feat which seemed to be done with more effort?


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

Mack 12.6k time stop soul stealing death magic spamming immortal


Oh Mashima.


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## Keishin (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> So uh... the meteor from Issho, which he did with ease and just "testing" his meteorites. That can't be scaled on a similar level to this feat which seemed to be done with more effort?


The meteor in FT showed a massive distance in comparison.


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

Her meteor was hundreds of thousands of kilometers away


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

That doesn't matter because when both meteors hit the atmosphere they go through the same effects. The meteor burns up in the atmosphere and in comparison is larger than hers. Unless I'm not getting something. And if that's the case explain the dynamic to me.


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

What matters is their distance and time frame. 

Fuji's doesn't compare to hers.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Steven (Jan 22, 2017)

fuji is nothing compare to irene
to the fight.he clears
his hax,speed is insane


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Efege said:


> he clears


he blitzes everyone in OP verse but the top tiers wont feel anything if he attacks them, they are close to moon level from WB, Zeref can't hurt them at all


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## howdy01 (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> he blitzes everyone in OP verse but the top tiers wont feel anything if he attacks them, they are close to *moon level from WB*, Zeref can't hurt them at all


woah calm down son, WB is still ~ 1 petaton


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

howdy01 said:


> woah calm down son, WB is still ~ 1 petaton


I read something GM posted about moon level WB 

I think it was the version before he revised it nvm


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## Steven (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> he blitzes everyone in OP verse but the top tiers wont feel anything if he attacks them, they are close to moon level from WB, Zeref can't hurt them at all


lol,moon level wb.no way
whitebeard is classcanon by the way


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

Zeref can death magic or soul rip


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Rax said:


> Zeref can death magic or soul rip


death magic has a limit
soul rip, when did he do this


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> death magic has a limit
> soul rip, when did he do this


 This is RH we are talking about here.  If he thinks that Zeref's immortality could allow him to survive a vacuum metastability event, he'd probably go that far.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> I read something GM posted about moon level WB
> 
> I think it was the version before he revised it nvm


The rock is still slowed due to friction otherwise again, it would have the same factors as Fuji's meteorite pulling feat too.

Editted, sorry:



Compared to this...



It just shows more information, but the effect is still the same.

PS. I just noticed I didn't quote the right person but it doesn't matter.


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## Steven (Jan 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> This is RH we are talking about here.  If he thinks that Zeref's immortality could allow him to survive a vacuum metastability event, he'd probably go that far.


what means RH?


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

The contradictory curse kept Mavis alive after not eating for a year and Zeref says even beheading them wouldn't work. 

Zeref should know things his demons know,  aside from Memento Mori


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Rax said:


> The contradictory curse kept Mavis alive after not eating for a year and Zeref says even beheading them wouldn't work.
> 
> Zeref should know things his demons know,  aside from Memento Mori


thats true actually but why did he never use any of his demons abilities when he could have? against Natsu for example
hm I guess he didnt want Natsu to die

but yeah Zeref has all that the Tartaros demons have, but his regen/immortality caps at being beheaded


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

How else would they have learned their abilities if Zeref didn't teach them or design them with it?


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

No one in OP can even touch Zeref, even if he can't beat top tier fighter in OP, he himself doesn't have to fear anything because they are too slow to even touch his cloth.
It's inconclusive unless I am missing something.


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## Xadlin (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> he blitzes everyone in OP verse but the top tiers wont feel anything if he attacks them, they are close to moon level from WB, Zeref can't hurt them at all


wow, hold your horses.
Whats stopping fujitora from doing a zoro on him and spam meteors?


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> No one in OP can even touch Zeref, even if he can't beat top tier fighter in OP, he himself doesn't have to fear anything because they are too slow to even touch his cloth.
> It's inconclusive unless I am missing something.


I highly doubt that One Piece is as slow as you guys think. But I've already went down that route with the relativistic Rayleigh thing, and it won't happen again. No one has still said why because it shows how the meteorite came, how it outdoes Issho's meteorite feat. Really we're just making assumptions about the impact force of the meteor itself, and not actually seeing the possible destruction that it could cause.


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

Xadlin said:


> wow, hold your horses.
> Whats stopping fujitora from doing a zoro on him and spam meteors?



The fact Zeref can stop time


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> I highly doubt that One Piece is as slow as you guys think. But I've already went down that route with the relativistic Rayleigh thing, and it won't happen again. No one has still said why because it shows how the meteorite came, how it outdoes Issho's meteorite feat. Really we're just making assumptions about the impact force of the meteor itself, and not actually seeing the possible destruction that it could cause.


He can stop time and teleport himself.
Seriously, no one can kill him in OP, his reaction speed surclass anyone for now + immortality + stop time.
Sure he can't kill top tier fighter, but he doesn't get killed too.
That is a stalemate buddy.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

People nowadays are so focused between the winner and the loser, that they forgot that the option " stalemate or inconclusive " exist.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> He can stop time and teleport himself.
> Seriously, no one can kill him in OP, his reaction speed surclass anyone for now + immortality + stop time.
> Sure he can't kill top tier fighter, but he doesn't get killed too.
> That is a stalemate buddy.


Except he can still be petrified, put into a block of permafrost ice, quaked to fall under ground, cute into pieces by laws space slashes, etc. And even still no one explains to me this speed advantage he has. Once more, thanks to friction as shown in the panel as it's obviously coming under the effects of it, the meteorite was slowed. The clouds open first to showcase the meteorite was coming. But that's not the point here. It's burning up in the atmosphere, which slows its decent dramatically, and while it could have been traveling at possible relativistic speeds or even been summoned from another dimension (it's magic so that could also be the case, though this does not discount its speed) that does not mean she's reacting to a meteor moving at sub/relative speeds as once again it had ample time to enter the atmosphere and then burn up to become far smaller than it actually was.


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

Not with time stopped.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Except he can still be petrified, put into a block of permafrost ice, quaked to fall under ground, cute into pieces by laws space slashes, etc. And even still no one explains to me this speed advantage he has. Once more, thanks to friction as shown in the panel as it's obviously coming under the effects of it, the meteorite was slowed. The clouds open first to showcase the meteorite was coming. But that's not the point here. It's burning up in the atmosphere, which slows its decent dramatically, and while it could have been traveling at possible relativistic speeds or even been summoned from another dimension (it's magic so that could also be the case, though this does not discount its speed) that does not mean she's reacting to a meteor moving at sub/relative speeds as once again it had ample time to enter the atmosphere and then burn up to become far smaller than it actually was.


Man, how anyone can do that when he stop time ? It's like you don't realize what time stop implicate for his opponents.
He can toy and troll with them thanks to that and his overwhelming reactions speed now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Except he can still be petrified, put into a block of permafrost ice, quaked to fall under ground, cute into pieces by laws space slashes, etc. And even still no one explains to me this speed advantage he has. Once more, thanks to friction as shown in the panel as it's obviously coming under the effects of it, the meteorite was slowed. The clouds open first to showcase the meteorite was coming. But that's not the point here. It's burning up in the atmosphere, which slows its decent dramatically, and while it could have been traveling at possible relativistic speeds or even been summoned from another dimension (it's magic so that could also be the case, though this does not discount its speed) that does not mean she's reacting to a meteor moving at sub/relative speeds as once again it had ample time to enter the atmosphere and then burn up to become far smaller than it actually was.


Even if he's not as fast time is stopped so none of that can happen


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

He's faster than OP


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

But he's not The World Over Heaven though. His timestop is not effectively "infinite". It has greater drawbacks otherwise why would he not just use it and then "win". If you can show where it says he can stop time for as long as he wishes with no limitations, you would be right. There are obviously limitations to it as a power. So please stop acting like it's an infinite power, Hax as hell yes, but not absolute, especially when there are those who have better firepower than you do.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Man, how anyone can do that when he stop time ? It's like you don't realize what time stop implicate for his opponents.
> He can toy and troll with them thanks to that and his overwhelming reactions speed now.


Once again. when you can tell me the difference between Issho's meteorites versus hers, pressing the fact that he can even summon multiple ones from outside the planets atmosphere, you can say that about reactions, but until there is a calc on that and the fact that it was obviously affected by friction, you can't say that.


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## Rax (Jan 22, 2017)

Zeref sees everything as a game.  It's how he cheats his contradictory curse. 

If he wanted to he coulda just teleported into FT,  death waved,  and took Mavis.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Once again. when you can tell me the difference between Issho's meteorites versus hers, pressing the fact that he can even summon multiple ones from outside the planets atmosphere, you can say that about reactions, but until there is a calc on that and the fact that it was obviously affected by friction, you can't say that.


We have panels for her summoning her meteorite from space, you can check that by yourself.
Unlike Fujitora, we don't know how far he summons them from space and the details behind that.
It doesn't matter anyways because it isn't Irene vs OP but Zeref vs OP.
She doesn't have time stop, so again, show me anyone in OP who can kill Zeref with his arsenals ?


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 22, 2017)

Zeref's timestop only lasted a couple minutes, but that's still a lot of time considering we're talking about superhumans. Isn't he in the triple digit mt's? 

Tbh, I'm not sure he'd even scale to the meteor speed. He barely has any feats, and they've all been casual


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

I know the panel. I showed it. She summoned it from space. And the meteorite still goes through the same instances of friction and atmospheric re-entry as Issho's meteorites, so where's the difference I ask you again. It goes through the same effects science dictates and thus is heavily slowed down. It's not even her combat speed btw. Just because it was summoned from space does not mean it was faster, it lost speed when it entered the atmosphere which is why it was under the effects of atmospheric entry.

You're basing Zeref's reaction speed off of Irene's technique, so it is fair. Now once again I'll say. How does this, a skill that isn't even based on her combat speed outside of the earth's atmosphere, give Zeref that much greater reactions than One Piece.


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

especially when there are those who have better firepower than you do.[/QUOTE]
It's one on one fights,


Gomu said:


> and thus is heavily slowed down.


@LazyWaka said the slow down is irrelevant when the speed is so high


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## Iwandesu (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> The rock is still slowed due to friction otherwise again, it would have the same factors as Fuji's meteorite pulling feat too.
> 
> Editted, sorry:
> 
> ...


Even with friction the rock is still mach 16k as ymir and I calced
Friction is just a derivation of drag that slows a 70km/s meteor
It is pretty weak for something like irene's one
That's the final number btw


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> especially when there are those who have better firepower than you do.


It's one on one fights,

@LazyWaka said the slow down is irrelevant when the speed is so high[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't that mean it wouldn't be affected by the friction then? Pieces of the rock were still breaking off from it.


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Even with friction the rock is still mach 16k as ymir and I calced
> Friction is just a derivation of drag that slows a 70km/s meteor
> It is pretty weak for something like irene's one
> That's the final number btw


Look at my last comment.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

Zeref is triple digit megatons in DC and dura for now + immortal + can *stop time and teleport* + sub rela in reaction speed.
That is enough to make an inconclusive match against anyone in OP.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

Calcs tend to go under a fine comb before they are accepted, so I'm not gonna accept it  until it goes under that comb. But I don't see that much of a difference between the Issho feat versus her feat. The meteorite was still slowed down as shown by way of the friction and the fact that it was breaking off pieces of its body under the drag force of its speed. So obviously, it's not going as fast as people think and if that does get accepted, Issho's meteorite feat should be rechecked since it is the same feat without showing it coming from outer space. Unless it's just being judged from the height of the Exo/Troposphere.

And if it's accepted, it'll be inconclusive either way.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

I re-read the chapter, and I have a question.
Zeref's time stop is as potent as Dimaria's time stop ? Can we scale his time stop to her own time stop since he is far stronger than her ?


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> I re-read the chapter, and I have a question.
> Zeref's time stop is as potent as Dimaria's time stop ? Can we scale his time stop to her own time stop since he is far stronger than her ?


??

scaling time-stop?


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## Veggie (Jan 22, 2017)

I didn't think FT would get this strong to be honest. Hiro might pull some planet level shit next time

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> ??
> 
> scaling time-stop?


Yeah, you are right, forgot about it, we can't scale hax with hax.
Dimaria's time stop seems more impressive and potent compared to Zeref's time stop by the way, and her range is far greater via panel showing.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

Veggie said:


> I didn't think would get this strong to be honest. Hiro might pull some planet level shit next time


Outlier

Reactions: Funny 1


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## FluffyEagles (Jan 22, 2017)

Given whats happened I'm willing to change what I said to Admiral level depending on how his death bestowment works


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## Iwandesu (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Look at my last comment.


...
Read my fucking commentary lol.
It is affected by friction but friction usually affects 70km/s meteors 
This one is like a hundred times faster or something so the slowing is just a smallish percentage

Reactions: Like 1


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## Iwandesu (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> *Calcs tend to go under a fine comb before they are accepted, *so I'm not gonna accept it  until it goes under that comb. But I don't see that much of a difference between the Issho feat versus her feat. The meteorite was still slowed down as shown by way of the friction and the fact that it was breaking off pieces of its body under the drag force of its speed. So obviously, it's not going as fast as people think and if that does get accepted.


Hello nice to meet you I'm apparemtly the official "redfag's comb" because mike doesnt even read his blpgs
it's a pleasure 
Oh and my revision is accepted because prove me wrong


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## Iwandesu (Jan 22, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Yeah, you are right, forgot about it, we can't scale hax with hax.
> Dimaria's time stop seems more impressive and potent compared to Zeref's time stop by the way, and her range is far greater via panel showing.


Dimaria range is far better because she has her power source as a god of time.
However as seen with ultear her Potency is not that great when compared to true magician masters
This much should be easily scalled to zeref's own time stop


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Dimaria range is far better because she has her power source as a god of time.
> However as seen with ultear her Potency is not that great when compared to true magician masters
> This much should be easily scalled to zeref's own time stop


Both Ultear and Dimaria's specialty is time magic.
Sorry but I doubt Zeref is as specialized as them when it comes to time manipulation magic. He doesn't show enough to suggest that.


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## Veggie (Jan 22, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Outlier


Downplayer

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 22, 2017)

Zeref has been repeatedly called the most genius Mage ever. So it's possible


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## EternalRage (Jan 22, 2017)

Zeref is the smartest mage 

Ultear turned into a concept of time so she has the best time manipulation in FT

Dimaria got her power from the god of time, but god slayers in FT disappoint every time 

I think Zeref's timestop is stronger or equal just because he's zeref


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Zeref has been repeatedly called the most genius Mage ever. So it's possible


Assumption


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> Zeref is the smartest mage
> 
> Ultear turned into a concept of time so she has the best time manipulation in FT
> 
> ...


Triggered


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Hello nice to meet you I'm apparemtly the official "redfag's comb" because mike doesnt even read his blpgs
> it's a pleasure
> Oh and my revision is accepted because prove me wrong


That's cool with me, guess someone needs to get to work revising that Fuji calc and we'll take this full circle. Otherwise I'm not accepting that when there was a bunch of BS holding back why Fuji's wasn't Sub-Relative but this one is just because of a perspective change. It's not butthurt, it's only fair, it's literally the same action from a lesser perspective.

Otherwise in my mind, not yours, Zeref is only triple mach digits until proven otherwise. Because something does not sit well with me in that.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 22, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That's cool with me, guess someone needs to get to work revising that Fuji calc and we'll take this full circle. Otherwise I'm not accepting that when there was a bunch of BS holding back why Fuji's wasn't Sub-Relative but this one is just because of a perspective change. It's not I’M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME, it's only fair, it's literally the same action from a lesser perspective.
> 
> Otherwise in my mind, not yours, Zeref is only triple mach digits until proven otherwise. Because something does not sit well with me in that.


Zeref is really MHS+ in movement speed and sub rela in reactions only.


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## Gomu (Jan 22, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Zeref is really MHS+ in movement speed and sub rela in reactions only.


That's not what I'm saying. Listen to me on this. I have nothing against Fairy Tail getting its feats. I'm not downplaying it, that's not the problem here. The problem is that this feat is basically Fujitora's feats, there was a firestorm on that feat when it arrived and people cried outlier on it being sub-relative. I understand this is from a different perspective. But it's literally the same feat. The characters had to react to this same feat to defend themselves. It's EOS Fairy Tail, that's all cool. But that does not matter. It's the same feat yet done from a different perspective.

So what I see this as is an opportunity to give Fujitora's feat another look, because nothing states that this technique was inside the earth's atmosphere when he got it and all we are really going on is a few panels showing it being pulled for whoever knows how long. I said this before as well: She could have summoned said meteor into existence, it is magic, and placed it at that perspective as well. See the twinkle before it falls and her looking up. It seems like the most likely case but that's only opinion and conjecture and that cannot be proven.

But alas, it's the same feat as Fujitora's yet discounted.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That's not what I'm saying. Listen to me on this. I have nothing against Fairy Tail getting its feats. I'm not downplaying it, that's not the problem here. The problem is that this feat is basically Fujitora's feats, there was a firestorm on that feat when it arrived and people cried outlier on it being sub-relative. I understand this is from a different perspective. But it's literally the same feat. The characters had to react to this same feat to defend themselves. It's EOS Fairy Tail, that's all cool. But that does not matter. It's the same feat yet done from a different perspective.
> 
> So what I see this as is an opportunity to give Fujitora's feat another look, because nothing states that this technique was inside the earth's atmosphere when he got it and all we are really going on is a few panels showing it being pulled for whoever knows how long. I said this before as well: She could have summoned said meteor into existence, it is magic, and placed it at that perspective as well. See the twinkle before it falls and her looking up. It seems like the most likely case but that's only opinion and conjecture and that cannot be proven.
> 
> But alas, it's the same feat as Fujitora's yet discounted.


I understand about your claim about Fujitora's meteorite but you have to make a case about it and make it *a consensus* for his use in the vsbattle.
That is like that toward *any calc *in the OBD, first, get the consensus, then use it anywhere in the forum since it got accepted.


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## Gomu (Jan 23, 2017)

That does not mean that I accept it. You guys can accept, I'm not stopping you from doing it. But from my personal view. I can't accept that if it's literally the same attack yet thanks to a perspective change, it's accepted as that. So that's cool, use it wherever you want. But for me, it will only mean Fairy Tail gets MHS+ and not the Sub-Relative reactions to go with it.


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## Shining Force (Jan 23, 2017)

Because Irene's meteor came from the space where the FT earth itself is clearly visible as small candy-sized ball whereas in Fuji's meteor we don't even see planet's curvature.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That does not mean that I accept it. You guys can accept, I'm not stopping you from doing it. But *from my personal view*. I can't accept that if it's literally the same attack yet thanks to a perspective change, it's accepted as that. So that's cool, use it wherever you want. But for me, it will only mean Fairy Tail gets MHS+ and not the Sub-Relative reactions to go with it.


Ok, I respect your position and reasons for that. Yes, I agree.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gomu (Jan 23, 2017)

Shining Force said:


> Because Irene's meteor came from the space where the FT earth itself is clearly visible as small candy-sized ball whereas in Fuji's meteor we don't even see planet's curvature.


I just said "a different perspective" multiple times. That doesn't matter. The meteor stimulated the same effects as the meteor shown with FT it was high enough that it was fully engulfed in friction, that FT meteor would have still slowed down, with that speed or not. It was the same thing and no one actually KNEW how far the meteorite was coming from with One Piece but we could understand by the effects of atmospheric re-entry that it had to be within the Exosphere or beyond.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Both Ultear and Dimaria's specialty is time magic.
> Sorry but I doubt Zeref is as specialized as them when it comes to time manipulation magic. He doesn't show enough to suggest that.


Zeref taught time magic to ultear.
Actually scratch that
Zeref is the fucking author and creator of ARC of time as far as the books Hades gave her go and has implanted its basis on a freaking time machine called Eclipse that clearly dwarfes even ultear suicide attack (as seen on the very arc it takes place)
He _definitely_ has her beat on time fuckery

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Iwandesu (Jan 23, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That's cool with me, guess someone needs to get to work revising that Fuji calc and we'll take this full circle. Otherwise I'm not accepting that when there was a bunch of BS holding back why Fuji's wasn't Sub-Relative but this one is just because of a perspective change. It's not I’M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME, it's only fair, it's literally the same action from a lesser perspective.
> 
> Otherwise in my mind, not yours, Zeref is only triple mach digits until proven otherwise. Because something does not sit well with me in that.


That's just not how the world works kiddo
I'm sorry but I could care less about what your mind thinks and what fujitora is on because I'm not this far on op yet
I can actually link you a drag formula if you to show that I have actual facts instead of just "hur dur I dun wanna believe ya",tho
Too bad you cant do the same


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Zeref taught time magic to ultear.
> Actually scratch that
> Zeref is the fucking author and creator of ARC of time as far as the books Hades gave her go and has implanted its basis on a freaking time machine called Eclipse that clearly dwarfes even ultear suicide attack (as seen on the very arc it takes place)
> He _definitely_ has her beat on time fuckery


Panel who said that he is the creator of ARC of time, I don't recall that to be honest.
Implanting its basis on a time machine doesn't mean that he can do what Ultear or Dimaria can do.
Panels and *feat *show that she beat him on* time magic* since it's her specialty, she doesn't know anything else unlike Zeref who is more versatile with anything.
He is more specialized toward death magic, that is his true domain.


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## Gomu (Jan 23, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> That's just not how the world works kiddo
> I'm sorry but I could care less about what your mind thinks and what fujitora is on because I'm not this far on op yet
> I can actually link you a drag formula if you to show that I have actual facts instead of just "hur dur I dun wanna believe ya",tho
> Too bad you cant do the same


Good for you. You need a gold star for being a calculator then? 

All I said is it was under the same circumstances, I didn't discount the feat itself. They are MHS+, either One Piece is Sub-Relativity or FT isn't due to them being the same feats. I don't need the sass for it.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 23, 2017)

Zeref knows a shit ton of magic tbh. He taught Mavis, Warrod, Hades, Yuri and Irene.

It's also very much implied all the magic/curses his demons possess were given to them by him. Which is the only logical assumption. Would give him too much hax though


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Zeref knows a shit ton of magic tbh. He taught Mavis, Warrod, Hades, Yuri and Irene.
> 
> It's also very much implied all the magic/curses his demons possess were given to them by him. Which is the only logical assumption. Would give him too much hax though


He taught them *only the basic* if I recall correctly, not complex and complicated stuff.
They developed their own magic later on by themselves.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Panel who said that he is the creator of ARC of time, I don't recall that to be honest.


Arc of time was among Zeref's forbidden books ultear got from Hades Shelf and supposedly would be enchanted through his awakening  (maybe eclipse foreshadowing or something)


It was indeed seemingly unfinished when ultear put her hands on it


> Implanting its basis on a time machine doesn't mean that he can do what Ultear or Dimaria can do.
> Panels and *feat *show that she beat him on* time magic* since it's her specialty, she doesn't know anything else unlike Zeref who is more versatile with anything.
> He is more specialized toward death magic, that is his true domain.


Powering up eclipse by himself is definitely>>>>anything ultear has ever done time wise.
It's just that his time feats aren't his main go so he doesn't has too many, but he can still casually stop time  (which is above anything human ultear has ever done), and again, the only reason dimaria has him on range is because she has a contract with Chronos, his magic reserves definitely can allow him to ignore a time stop (like E.N.D did for startes)


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> He taught them *only the basic* if I recall correctly, not complex and complicated stuff.
> They developed their own magic later on by themselves.


Are you saying he taught only the basics to the people I mentioned or his demons? 

Mavis learned Fairy Law from him; which he thought was weak sauce btw. He taught Yuri Lightning magic which is all he used and Warrod tree magic which was also his only thing. As for Irene, he at least taught her the fireball enchantment she used to  push Acno back and more than likely U1 as well. Enchantment magic is one of his more skilled areas


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Arc of time was among Zeref's forbidden books ultear got from Hades Shelf and supposedly would be enchanted through his awakening  (maybe eclipse foreshadowing or something)
> 
> 
> It was indeed seemingly unfinished when ultear put her hands on it
> ...


Sorry but your links are broken, I can't see anything.
I can't formulate my stance without seeing your link first and thinking about it.
That is debatable dude. Powering up eclipse doesn't means that he is more skilled than her in time magic.
Ultear literally become a concept in the flow of time and Dimaria shit on him in time manipulation feat via showing ( just as I said  again ).
Really ? So anyone who surclass Dimaria in power can ignore her time stop ? ( like other character in other verse too ).
So, it is the same with his own time stop then, top tier OP will ignore it since they are far higher in DC and power.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Are you saying he taught only the basics to the people I mentioned or his demons?
> 
> Mavis learned Fairy Law from him; which he thought was weak sauce btw. He taught Yuri Lightning magic which is all he used and Warrod tree magic which was also his only thing. As for Irene, he at least taught her the fireball enchantment she used to  push Acno back and more than likely U1 as well. Enchantment magic is one of his more skilled areas


Yes, only basic unless you show me otherwise : 
He never taught Mavis about Law, she learned that herself.
Yuri learned lightning magic by himself too, He said that he " like " lightning magic and after that, Zeref leave without staying with him to supervise his training. 
Dunno about Warrod. I don't recall him teaching her about fireball enchantment and she developed U1 by herself dude.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Yes, only basic unless you show me otherwise :
> He never taught Mavis about Law, she learned that herself.
> Yuri learned lightning magic by himself too, He said that he " like " lightning magic and after that, Zeref leave without staying with him to supervise his training.
> Dunno about Warrod. I don't recall him teaching her about fireball enchantment and she developed U1 by herself dude.





They didn't know any magic, so how would Yuri know he likes lightning magic if he's never used it? He was there to teach them magic lol. 

Irene used the fireball enchantment against Acno and he immediately recognized it as being Zeref's magic.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> They didn't know any magic, so how would Yuri know he likes lightning magic if he's never used it? He was there to teach them magic lol.
> 
> Irene used the fireball enchantment against Acno and he immediately recognized it as being Zeref's magic.


Fair enough about Mavis.
Maybe because he wrote that in the tree ? Hence why he said that he " like " lightning magic.
Alright about that fireball enchantment, but still doesn't answer about U1.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 23, 2017)

Too lazy to get the scans, and it's not set in stone like Law and the fireball enchantment.

Zeref recognized the exact magic from hundreds of miles away just by sensing it's feel, he knew it rearranged people, knew it shrunk Fiore and Irene said it was her first time using the magic. How would Zeref know all the mechanics and it's feel if Irene created it and had never used it before then?


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## Iwandesu (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Really ? So anyone who surclass Dimaria in power can ignore her time stop ? ( like other character in other verse too ).
> So, it is the same with his own time stop then, top tier OP will ignore it since they are far higher in DC and power.


Not exactly.
It is more similar to reiatsu shenanigans on bleach.
Basically at least Zeref and natsu due to Ankh curse have shown a vast variety of resistances through magic power but this is not exactly infallible.(a much weaker brandy can still transmutate natsu tumour from inside this body although she can't affect him physically)


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## Iwandesu (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Sorry but your links are broken, I can't see anything.
> I can't formulate my stance without seeing your link first and thinking about it.
> That is debatable dude. Powering up eclipse doesn't means that he is more skilled than her in time magic.
> Ultear literally become a concept in the flow of time and Dimaria shit on him in time manipulation feat via showing ( just as I said  again ).
> .


Powering up a time machine he created and that needs all of magic game tournament magic scope to work shows he has quite the huge magic reserves which people manage to use to resist hax, because hell if I know.


Can you see these ?
Basically arc of time is mentioned as one of the magics that would be revived through zeref's awakening but while they didn't have that there were some scrambles he wanted ultear to work hard and try to achieve


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Not exactly.
> It is more similar to reiatsu shenanigans on bleach.
> Basically at least Zeref and natsu due to Ankh curse have shown a vast variety of resistances through magic power but this is not exactly infallible.(a much weaker brandy can still transmutate natsu tumour from inside this body although she can't affect him physically)


Dude, Natsu counter her time stop via resistance to it or because of higher power ?
If it is the former, fair enough, but if it's the later..... You know what does that mean lol.
Natsu doesn't have ankh curse, that is Zeref and Mavis so far in the manga + having it doesn't mean that you are immune toward time stop.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Powering up a time machine he created and that needs all of magic game tournament magic scope to work shows he has quite the huge magic reserves which people manage to use to resist hax, because hell if I know.
> 
> 
> Can you see these ?
> Basically arc of time is mentioned as one of the magics that would be revived through zeref's awakening but while they didn't have that there were some scrambles he wanted ultear to work hard and try to achieve


Having huge magic reserves doesn't means that he is skilled ( as Ultear and Dimaria ) in that domain, skills are show, not guessed lol.
Yeah, and nowhere it is indicated that Zeref *created *Arc of time, he just basically know his existence, just like any dude who lived in antiquity. It's a lost magic, rare magic, I never saw Zeref using all of the " Lost magic ".


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## Jikaishin (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Dude, Natsu counter her time stop via resistance to it or because of higher power ?
> If it is the former, fair enough, but if it's the later..... You know what does that mean lol.
> Natsu doesn't have ankh curse, that is Zeref and Mavis so far in the manga + having it doesn't mean that you are immune toward time stop.



It's most likely the former, the thing many people think is :
Zeref's curse = divine power = E.N.D can overcome it because he can kill Zeref apparently
Dimaria power = divine power = inneffective against END

Also Zeref is the most powerful wizard in history not only the smartest


Going by this, doesn't that mean that Zeref cannot die by soul steal, magic absorption, being cut apart and poison ? as well as sense deprivation


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> It's most likely the former, the thing many people think is :
> Zeref's curse = divine power = E.N.D can overcome it because he can kill Zeref apparently
> Dimaria power = divine power = inneffective against END
> 
> ...


Zeref *was *the most powerful wizard in history. August, the king of magic, know far more magics than him, his arsenals are better than Zeref himself.
No, his body are immortal, not his soul, just like Ban from NNT. If his body are disintegrated, he die as well.


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## Jikaishin (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Zeref *was *the most powerful wizard in history. August, the king of magic, know far more magics than him, his arsenals are better than Zeref himself.
> No, his body are immortal, not his soul, just like Ban from NNT. If his body are disintegrated, he die as well.



Franmalth can absorb soul and Lullaby eats soul and he still said they can't kill him so why ?

What are you talking about ?
First Makarov said he *probably* know even more magic than Zeref
so no he don't know *far *more magic and quantity doesn't equate to quality

August can know 100 spells level 2 and Zeref 80 spells lev5, August know more magic than Zeref but Zeref is still more powerful than him


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## howdy01 (Jan 23, 2017)

zeref's shit it too weak, akainu takes over this END business and rekts him


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> Franmalth can absorb soul and Lullaby eats soul and he still said they can't kill him so why ?
> 
> What are you talking about ?
> First Makarov said he *probably* know even more magic than Zeref
> ...


Franmalth's soul steal is pathetic, you can resist it via will power.
Zeref is weird, he riposte against Natsu and doesn't let himself being killed without moving a single finger. For someone who want to die, the better is not riposting when someone is trying to kill you lol.
I am talking about the fact that August know more magics than him and it was never specified that Zeref was more powerful than him to the point that he stomps him. He can be slightly powerful.
Anyway, death mode zeref is stronger than August, not the " kind " one.


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## Jikaishin (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Franmalth's soul steal is pathetic, you can resist it via will power.
> Zeref is weird, he riposte against Natsu and doesn't let himself being killed without moving a single finger. For someone who want to die, the better is not riposting when someone is trying to kill you lol.
> I am talking about the fact that August know more magics than him and it was never specified that Zeref was more powerful than him to the point that he stomps him. He can be slightly powerful.
> Anyway, death mode zeref is stronger than August, not the " kind " one.



The willpower to live, Zeref would not fight against it, have his soul stolen or eaten and still regen so his immortality also include his soul
and I agree the kind one ( the one Natsu fights ) is weaker than August but not the death mode


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> The willpower to live, Zeref would not fight against it, have his soul stolen or eaten and still regen *so his immortality also include his soul*
> and I agree the kind one ( the one Natsu fights ) is weaker than August but not the death mode


You can't prove that unfortunately buddy.


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## Rax (Jan 23, 2017)

Franmalth couldn't kill him with soul rip. 

So yes.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Rax said:


> Franmalth couldn't kill him with soul rip.
> 
> So yes.


He can't kill anyone with that too. Not even Happy.


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## Rax (Jan 23, 2017)

He can confirmed soul rip. 


Seeing as Zeref used him to attempt suicide I doubt he resisted at all.


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## Jikaishin (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> He can't kill anyone with that too. Not even Happy.



Happy survived August fire nuke and Jackal City destroying suicide, your argument is invalid

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Akira1993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> Happy survived August fire nuke and Jackal City destroying suicide, your argument is invalid


How it is invalid exactly ? You preferred that I said Lucy too.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 23, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Having huge magic reserves doesn't means that he is skilled ( as Ultear and Dimaria ) in that domain, skills are show, not guessed lol.


Actually i'm pretty sure there is some implication that the higher your magic reserves are the better you can resist hax.
which is not even about power mind you, brandy is a fooder and she has a top tier magic reserve that just makes her a high tier.
basically there is something weird that i'm not enough of a fan to have any idea what it is 


> Yeah, and nowhere it is indicated that Zeref *created *Arc of time, he just basically know his existence, just like any dude who lived in antiquity. It's a lost magic, rare magic, I never saw Zeref using all of the " Lost magic ".


that's fair enough tbh
the fact it is among his researches does indicate that he worked it out (which is obvious because Eclipse is ark of time on steroids) but indeed there nothing saying he created ark of time especifically


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Jan 23, 2017)

Hello, this is my first time posting, I hope to have a good time!

One topic: Pretty sure Natsu said he negated most of August's blast.

And as for Franmalth's soul rip, sure one can resist it, but resistance can only go so far without doing something about freeing yourself, and resistance does not guarantee immunity or nullification of the effect


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## Rob MG (Jan 24, 2017)

Luffy>Zeref.


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## Tir (Jan 24, 2017)

OBDers are good fanfiction writers, it seems. Lots of fanfic abilities for Zeref. Unless shown, he ain't gonna use it. Man, you guys are terrible.


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## Keishin (Jan 25, 2017)

Tir said:


> OBDers are good fanfiction writers, it seems. Lots of fanfic abilities for Zeref. Unless shown, he ain't gonna use it. Man, you guys are terrible.


But it was stated that August knows all the magic in existence and they even questioned that he Might be above Zeref in that aspect, while Zeref is he smartest and strongest mage.


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## EternalRage (Jan 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> But it was stated that August knows all the magic in existence and they even questioned that he Might be above Zeref in that aspect, while Zeref is he smartest and strongest mage.


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## Warlordgab (Jan 25, 2017)

Logically speaking if Zeref is supposed to be one of the "final bosses" he should be more powerful than the Spriggan, which would include August and Irene


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## Rax (Jan 25, 2017)

Zeref considers the 12 pawns 

And Irene spent hundreds of years only to fail at what Zeref did instantly

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Keishin (Jan 25, 2017)

Warlordgab said:


> Logically speaking if Zeref is supposed to be one of the "final bosses" he should be more powerful than the Spriggan, which would include August and Irene


It's been stated since the very beginning that Zeref is the strongest, greatest mage in history so he might be stronger than all the spriggan combined easily.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> It's been stated since the very beginning that Zeref is the strongest, greatest mage in history so he might be stronger than all the spriggan *combined *easily.


there is nothing remotely implying that
it is not impossible but it is literally sheer especulation

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tir (Jan 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> But it was stated that August knows all the magic in existence and they even questioned that he Might be above Zeref in that aspect, while Zeref is he smartest and strongest mage.


Statement means nothing without feats backing it up. Otherwise we'd have Planet Level Juubito and WB, LS Haku and Kizaru and so on.

Unless shown, soul rip is still possible to take down Zeref. Lullaby is featless when it comes to soul rip so we don't know just how strong Zeref's soul-resistance is.



> Basically arc of time is mentioned as one of the magics that would be revived through zeref's awakening but while they didn't have that there were some scrambles he wanted ultear to work hard and try to achiev


Actually, Hades believed that Zeref will be the one to get them closer to the truth of real magic. Zeref has been awake all along so your point is moot.


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## Rax (Jan 26, 2017)

Zeref is logically above anyone of the Sp12


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## Crackle (Jan 26, 2017)

Given stats alone Zeref should make it up to the Admirals. But I don't see him getting past their petaton level durability and thats if he even has anything for taking care of their intangibility which I don't think he does.


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## Keishin (Jan 26, 2017)

Tir said:


> Statement means nothing without feats backing it up. Otherwise we'd have Planet Level Juubito and WB, LS Haku and Kizaru and so on.
> 
> Unless shown, soul rip is still possible to take down Zeref. Lullaby is featless when it comes to soul rip so we don't know just how strong Zeref's soul-resistance is.
> 
> ...


Its not that simple. You are ignoring the fact that the demons existence is based on trying to kill Zeref. This means he definitely cant be killed by any of them as he himself statedm

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kuzehiko (Jan 26, 2017)

Tbh Zeref may lose to Luffy. Zeref isn't even stronger then Acnalogia so he has no chance in One Piece. Zeref has no durability or speed feats, he is just smart and immortal and that's why he is taken as the strongest but lulz even with his immortality he can still be defeated.


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## Rax (Jan 26, 2017)

Crackle said:


> Given stats alone Zeref should make it up to the Admirals. But I don't see him getting past their petaton level durability and thats if he even has anything for taking care of their intangibility which I don't think he does.


Time stop and soul stealing.

That's how


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## Rax (Jan 26, 2017)

Takahisa said:


> Tbh Zeref may lose to Luffy. Zeref isn't even stronger then Acnalogia so he has no chance in One Piece. Zeref has no durability or speed feats, he is just smart and immortal and that's why he is taken as the strongest but lulz even with his immortality he can still be defeated.


Zeref is immortal and Sub relavistic thanks to Irene and Erza


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## Kuzehiko (Jan 26, 2017)

Rax said:


> Zeref is immortal and Sub relavistic thanks to Irene and Erza


When he shows it on battle, i'll add it to his speed feats meanwhile he is rusty.


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## EternalRage (Jan 26, 2017)

Takahisa said:


> Tbh Zeref may lose to Luffy. Zeref isn't even stronger then Acnalogia so he has no chance in One Piece. Zeref has no durability or speed feats, he is just smart and immortal and that's why he is taken as the strongest but lulz even with his immortality he can still be defeated.


lolluffy

Luffy is a mid tier in ft


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## Rax (Jan 26, 2017)

Takahisa said:


> When he shows it on battle, i'll add it to his speed feats meanwhile he is rusty.



Why would he have to show it when someone below him has such speeds?


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## bitethedust (Jan 26, 2017)

Threadly reminder to ignore RedHero and all RedHero-related posts.


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## Rax (Jan 26, 2017)

I don't wanna hear that from someone who's name is all lower case.


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## Kuzehiko (Jan 26, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> lolluffy
> 
> Luffy is a mid tier in ft


I was overstating in that sense.
It was a way of saying that Zeref isn't that great, lol.



Rax said:


> Why would he have to show it when someone below him has such speeds?



Because you're assuming something that wasn't shown yet.


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## Rax (Jan 26, 2017)

When he's ever so clearly above her :sanji


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## Kuzehiko (Jan 26, 2017)

The fact he's above her doesn't make him faster not until proved on battle otherwise.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 27, 2017)

Tir said:


> Statement means nothing without feats backing it up. Otherwise we'd have Planet Level Juubito and WB, LS Haku and Kizaru and so on.


retarded logic
juubito ohmyou>oonoki jinton in cellullar destruction
this is a perfectly fine statement that doesnt fucking need a scientist testing both textures to know
comparing 2 characters=/=stating random yeilds out their ass
i'm not aggreing with wathever they are claiming but it is undeniable that zeref's>august as a mage and he actually even has feats like being a 400+ well versed genius who invented absurd magics no one can reply on its own to begin with like the demon books/Eclipse and R system


> Unless shown, soul rip is still possible to take down Zeref. Lullaby is featless when it comes to soul rip so we don't know just how strong Zeref's soul-resistance is.


context shows he clearly can't be killed by any of his demons.
at best you can argue he doesnt has hardcore soul resistance because no demon has shown strong soulfuck
but any soulfuck a demon on ft has can be applied to zeref just fine.


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## Kuhzan (Jan 27, 2017)

Makes to anyone who scales to Chinjao.

Problem is I'm not sure who scales and who doesn't

I'm pretty sure that FMs scale, Weeble probably scales, Sabo proabably to.

Do people like Jack, Jozu scale?


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## Warlordgab (Jan 27, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> lolluffy
> 
> Luffy is a mid tier in ft



Let me correct that statement: Luffy having 20+ megatons DC/dura, single-digit gigaton for blunt force dura, and quad-mach speed, makes him a high tier in the FT verse


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## EternalRage (Jan 27, 2017)

Rax said:


> Time stop and soul stealing.
> 
> That's how


Rax he doesnt have this


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## Rax (Jan 27, 2017)

How did Franmalth get it then?


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## EternalRage (Jan 27, 2017)

The demons come from books right? Maybe Zeref writes their concept and they come to life


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## The World (Jan 27, 2017)

ban Red Hero

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Friendly 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Rax (Jan 27, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> The demons come from books right? Maybe Zeref writes their concept and they come to life



Then what's stopping him from making another Franmalth?


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## Iwandesu (Jan 27, 2017)

Rax said:


> Then what's stopping him from making another Franmalth?


It takes hours on a lab to make a demon after its book concept already has come into life, and it took several days if not months for Natsu to be born
Zeref is a scientist.
There is no proof he can pop high tier demons without prep.
At best he can summon Nemesis tier demons as shown with Hades spell.
And those are freaking fooders

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rax (Jan 27, 2017)

Those were demons made from rubble.

Not the same.

And we're still not getting through the superior speed and time stop


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## Rob MG (Jan 28, 2017)

Rax said:


> Time stop and soul stealing.
> 
> That's how



He'll get Blitzed before you know it.


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## Keishin (Jan 28, 2017)

Rob MG said:


> He'll get Blitzed before you know it.


Zeref is like mach 15k.


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## EternalRage (Jan 28, 2017)

Rob MG said:


> He'll get Blitzed before you know it.


If anything he blitzes them


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## Rob MG (Jan 28, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> If anything he blitzes them


Based off?


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## EternalRage (Jan 28, 2017)

Rob MG said:


> Based off?


Being mach 13k


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## Rob MG (Jan 29, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> Being mach 13k


Why would Zeref get the scaling? This should only scale to dragons

Luffy is Mach 13k. (With Observation haki )


She got blitzed by Erza so it could be easily enterpurted as an Outlier.


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## EternalRage (Jan 29, 2017)

Rob MG said:


> Luffy is Mach 13k. (With Observation haki )


lol that's not accepted here

post it in the calcs section and see what people have to say



Rob MG said:


> Why would Zeref get the scaling? This should only scale to dragons


It's scaling from Irene's meteor

he's > irene


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## Adhominem (Jan 29, 2017)

What is this madness? Sub relativistic FT? Eh, I can dig it.

Zeref fists everyone up to, hmm, this is difficult, probably at best he could get to 6 inches or so.

kay furrealz though admirals but 'small continent' level durability means he can't touch them


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## Rob MG (Jan 30, 2017)

EternalRage said:


> lol that's not accepted here
> 
> post it in the calcs section and see what people have to say
> 
> ...



But Irene's a Dragon in physical attributes 
Dragon Zeref


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 30, 2017)

You realise that nobody is accepting that mach 13k Fairy Tail calc right lol


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 30, 2017)

Pretty much everyone except people on suicide watch for FT upgrades accept it


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 30, 2017)

such as?

Just because a group of people in a blog said "oh cool" doesn't make it an accepted calc

or rather more accurately, doesn't make the calc an accepted value for the verse, since the calc is correct, it's merely it's application that's wrong.


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 30, 2017)

Seeing it's also put on the wiki I am positive it's accepted. A calc doesn't need to be accepted by everyone to be valid and used, otherwise we wouldn't be able to roll with any calc since people have different opinions regarding any verse and calc.


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 30, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> ...



I know the wiki is not always accurate due to not being taken care off but when something new has actually been discussed and finally edited in shouldn't that account for something no?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 30, 2017)

RavenSupreme said:


> I know the wiki is not always accurate due to not being taken care off but when something new has actually been discussed and finally edited in shouldn't that account for something no?



no?

we were finding edits made by Tonathan on the wiki months after he was officially permed from the OBD, let alone when people lost faith in his assertions which was ages before even that, all it takes is one person with edit access to post something on a wiki and the vetting process isn't infallible. The wiki isn't an authoritative source on anything and treating it as such is part of the reason the discourse in this section is kinda fucked right now 

What matters is what you yourself can prove or disprove, not what someone else _says _they can prove or disprove.


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 30, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> no?
> 
> we were finding edits made by Tonathan on the wiki months after he was officially permed from the OBD, let alone when people lost faith in his assertions which was ages before even that, all it takes is one person with edit access to post something on a wiki and the vetting process isn't infallible. The wiki isn't an authoritative source on anything and treating it as such is part of the reason the discourse in this section is kinda fucked right now
> 
> What matters is what you yourself can prove or disprove, not what someone else _says _they can prove or disprove.



eh thats not really comparable. on the one hand you have someone vandalizing a profile without anyone noticing and on the other hand you have a specific blog created for the sole purpose of evaluating a feat with several people discussing it, brining in their calcs (whose results are all rather close to each other in the first place) and a final result which then got edited on the characters profile and linked to the blog in question

obviously the wiki is not the supreme authority but when it does its job right it links to what the majority of people who care about that characters feats have agreed upon. stating: "it was not accepted" is just not a valid option at that point in time anylonger. if you disagree just give your opinion in the blog and people will discuss it again.

ive created a handful of calcs who are used here and linked in the OBD wiki as well, i dont expect people who use my numbers to actually prove them again. this is what calcs are for. they are a guideline for everyone. you dont have to prove something again when you can link a valid, accepted source.


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## EternalRage (Jan 30, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> You realise that nobody is accepting that mach 13k Fairy Tail calc right lol


except for everyone

you have a problem if you don't accept it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rax (Jan 30, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> You realise that nobody is accepting that mach 13k Fairy Tail calc right lol



It was already accepted,  dartg


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> You realise that nobody is accepting that mach 13k Fairy Tail calc right lol


nobody like ?
pls be my guess kiddo


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> or rather more accurately, doesn't make the calc an accepted value for the verse, since the calc is correct, it's merely it's application that's wrong.


oh
fair enough really
dunno how people are applying it so far


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## Jag77 (Jan 30, 2017)

Where does Erza get the small island stuff from? 
Where does anyone aside from the absolute god tiers get it from actually? 

I remember that Invel feat causing a shitstorm about it being off panel and completely non trustworthy and whatnot so idk how that thread ended. 

And isn't Erza blocking END/Demon Gray and her most recent feat nothing but living outliers? 

So confused rn.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Erza is not small island
Fuck off
Obvious outlier is obvious


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## Jag77 (Jan 30, 2017)

Might wanna peep a gander at those wiki pages then Iwanbro


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Gildarts is not for sure small island, it is likely but nothing proves he is on END's level and dominating the guy who got one shotted by human Acnologia is nowhere up there.
Erza small island is as legit as multiversal+ squirrel girl.
I don't think gajeel has literally anything to put him on i can oneshot low tier spriggan laxus level.(city level+)
Feel free to prove me wrong, I will wait

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rax (Jan 30, 2017)

Erza stopped E.Natsu, Demon Slayer Gray, and took multiple attacks from Irene.

She's small island level


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## Jag77 (Jan 30, 2017)

I agree with you 100%, Iwan. 

Although I do firmly believe Gajeel should be > Mirajane.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Her dura is small island level, tho 
Endurance is her thing after all

Reactions: Like 1


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Rax said:


> Erza stopped E.Natsu, Demon Slayer Gray, and took multiple attacks from Irene.
> 
> She's small island level


For dura,damage soak ?
Sure.
Her dc is not and the fact she needed several boost and counter debuufs from Wendy to even begin hurting irene already shows that

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Jan 30, 2017)

Yet Erza got her ass handed from Ajeel 


Mashima trips all the time.


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## Rax (Jan 30, 2017)

Erza clearly got some form of power boost when she fought Neinheart.

And she destroyed the meteor that was Irene's strongest known thing aside from U1.

Erza gets it.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Rax said:


> Erza clearly got some form of power boost when she fought Neinheart.


Which is why she even figured on irene ordeal and is city level+



> And she destroyed the meteor that was Irene's strongest known thing aside from U1.


Biggest outlier of 2017.
She got one shotted by a bitchslap
It makes 0 contextual sense for her to intercept irene's much stronger tecnique
Stop reaching



> Erza gets it.


On your wet dreams and only there


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## Rax (Jan 30, 2017)

How is she only city level?

Dragon physical strength has been long since shown to be > Their abilities.

Look back at any fight with Dragon Force or the fact Igneel's charged roar did NOTHING, literally nothing, to Acnologia but his bite strength took off an arm.


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## Jag77 (Jan 30, 2017)

Erza shouldn't get it for Dura either. 
That specific area is just as bullshit as a DC. 

Her feats are practically gag feats at this point.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Rax said:


> How is she only city level?
> 
> Dragon physical strength has been long since shown to be > Their abilities.
> 
> Look back at any fight with Dragon Force or the fact Igneel's charged roar did NOTHING, literally nothing, to Acnologia but his bite strength took off an arm.


You are fucking kidding me if you think a random slap held more power than her strongest spell.
Igneel doing his best to take an arm=/= irene fucking slap erza out her bones


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Jag77 said:


> Erza shouldn't get it for Dura either.
> That specific area is just as bullshit as a DC.
> 
> Her feats are practically gag feats at this point.


Nah
It is pretty consistent for dura.
She survived the clash, she survived several of irene hits including her Dragon form.
Her dura has always been her main point and there is nothing justifying it (while she hurting base Irene is justified by wendy)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rax (Jan 30, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> You are fucking kidding me if you think a random slap held more power than her strongest spell.
> Igneel doing his best to take an arm=/= irene fucking slap erza out her bones



And Igneel's charged Roar Literally didn't scratch Acnologia

Yet his bite strength took off his arm


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## EternalRage (Jan 30, 2017)

Jag77 said:


> Erza shouldn't get it for Dura either.
> That specific area is just as bullshit as a DC.
> 
> Her feats are practically gag feats at this point.


Even if they are gag feats they get quantified


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## Rax (Jan 30, 2017)

Erza makes so many toddlers in this thread so salty


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

jag has some quite unusual hate for ftverse tbh
i mean at least he hates a shit verse, it could be worse
also he is cool so it is whatever


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## Jag77 (Jan 30, 2017)

When you watch a quality series like YuYu Hakusho you tend to ask yourself why Fairy Fail exists alot tbh

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rax (Jan 30, 2017)

YYH isn't even good. 

All the old ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who lurk an anime forum in their early thirties that act like anime and such was only good in their childhood


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Rax said:


> YYH isn't even good.
> 
> All the old ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who lurk an anime forum in their early thirties that act like anime and such was only good in their childhood


YYH is actually pretty solid
extremely better and well worked than ft to say the least
the only issue with YYH was a powercreep shenanigans and rushed ending on its last arc
and even that was dealt far far better than Toriko for example


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## Rax (Jan 30, 2017)

I didn't care much for it other than Kuwabara 

Kurama had a new plant for every occasion. Sorta ass pullish


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Rax said:


> I didn't care much for it other than Kuwabara
> Kurama had a new plant for every occasion. Sorta ass pullish


Kurama was always hyped to be powerful but his plants were just part of strategy game to show off and beat fooder.
Togashi never solved impossible task because Kurama unlike let's say lol merlin Absolute BS and Perfect Asspull
they were used against barely named characters and Younger toguro who was just some shit tier on the arc he was killed to begin with


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## Rax (Jan 31, 2017)

Instead Yusuke just pulled power ups that were dormant and latent and weren't a thing until it was needed


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## Jag77 (Jan 31, 2017)

Fairy Tail makes Naruto and Bleach's worst arcs put together seem tame. 

So much to the point where its made an entire meme out of itself purely off of being cancerous tier in writing

Whether it be here, other forums or even the youtube community. FT knows how to make a name for itself at least


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## Iwandesu (Jan 31, 2017)

Rax said:


> Instead Yusuke just pulled power ups that were dormant and latent and weren't a thing until it was needed


That is a fair complain, but everything has one or 2 asspulls.
And the egg was a thing regarding his latent power since dark tournament. So it wasn't _that_ bad


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## Rax (Jan 31, 2017)

Do any of Yusuke's fights have any power ups that weren't just yanked outta nowhere?


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## Jag77 (Jan 31, 2017)

Yusuke vs Chu
Yusuke vs Jin
Yusuke vs Toguro (Arguable via forshadowing)
Yusuke vs Sensui
Yusuke vs Sensui round 2 was every basic protag rage boost
Yusuke vs Yomi (Again aguable if you wanna consider the demon/spirit energy hybrid he did on Yomi's barrier)

And thats not counting all the no names or fodders etc.

Again, If you unironically like FT in 2017 I don't think you can even bash Bleach which is much much less painful to read


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## Jag77 (Jan 31, 2017)

Then again it is RH...


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## Iwandesu (Jan 31, 2017)

Rax said:


> Do any of Yusuke's fights have any power ups that weren't just yanked outta nowhere?


hmm 
i'm not sure any power up was really out nowhere aside of Sensui's and even that had bird kun foreshadowing.
i might be wrong,tho


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## Rax (Jan 31, 2017)

Eh

The hype train on it is ridiculous. I don't care for Togashi or his work


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## Jag77 (Jan 31, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> hmm
> i'm not sure any power up was really out nowhere aside of Sensui's and even that had bird kun foreshadowing.
> i might be wrong,tho



Most of Yusuke's sudden power ups were hinted episodes prior and cockteased before actually used. 

The weird variation of "Sacred Energy" he used was the only weird one, but that can be decided as a potent mixture of demon and spirit energy which he used earlier into the fight.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 31, 2017)

Rax said:


> Eh
> 
> The hype train on it is ridiculous. I don't care for Togashi or his work


Maybe it's above your AR level? 


Jag77 said:


> Most of Yusuke's sudden power ups were hinted episodes prior and cockteased before actually used.
> 
> The weird variation of "Sacred Energy" he used was the only weird one, but that can be decided as a potent mixture of demon and spirit energy which he used earlier into the fight.


Wasn't Yusuke using sacred energy anime only? You're referring to the Yomi fight right?


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## Rax (Jan 31, 2017)

I just never liked it. 

Totally opinion based though if you like it


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## Jag77 (Jan 31, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Maybe it's above your AR level?
> 
> Wasn't Yusuke using sacred energy anime only? You're referring to the Yomi fight right?



Yep, Just the anime. Yomi fight etc. 
I only mention it because I prefer the dub anime of YYH overall.


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