# Who's the best story writer amongst the HST?



## Magician (Apr 10, 2013)

This NOT which one is your favorite series. I want your honest, unbiased opinions on which mangaka is the best in terms of writing a story, based on story plotting, foreshadowing, character development/design, etc, etc. Who do you think does it the best?


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## Imagine (Apr 10, 2013)

Word of advice. These threads that pertain to the HST have been overdone and led to unnecessary shitstorms.


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## Byrd (Apr 10, 2013)

Are you trying to prove some point or something, cause this thread has been done over a fuckton already...

and a shitstorm will happen


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## Mizura (Apr 10, 2013)

This thread is kind of pointless, yeah.  If it's just among the HST, then even though I don't like One Piece that much, even I can tell that Oda's a much better writer than the other two. 

Naruto was okay in Part I. In Part II it went from "Beating up some bad guys in some forest or cave (also a village getting blown up)" to "War against the evil Zombies and Trees! But here comes the Savior!" The last few chapters were a better, but that doesn't make up for several years of shit writing.

Bleach is the type of story where a whole arc or two is summed up as "Save the damsel in distress." Okay, there were some arcs after that, which weren't about saving the damsel in distress. Actually, what was the last arc even about (not talking about the current one)? Beating up random unimportant people? 

OP arcs are, at the very least, much less linear. Most have actual writing in them.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Oda no contest really.


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## EndlessStrategy (Apr 10, 2013)

Oda, easily. Kishi, at his very best, only ocassionally reaches Oda's level. And Kubo's storytelling is way, way below both of the others.


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## ensoriki (Apr 10, 2013)

Oda > Kubo > Kishi.
Oda does the "short" story pretty well though in terms of the actual plot towards a conclusion, I don't feel much closer to the end than the first 10 pages of the book...feels like there is no end in sight, kinda washy in that department considering how long it's been going for.


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## Aldric (Apr 10, 2013)

Kubo shouldn't even be in the poll because Bleach has no story

So it's between Oda and Kishimoto, and since among shonen authors Kishimoto is only beaten by Oh Great when it comes to writing awful schlock then obviously Oda is the best


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Apr 10, 2013)




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## Shiny (Apr 10, 2013)

Kubo is the best by a fair margin,3 different worlds? what else you want?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Kubo shouldn't even be in the poll because Bleach has no story
> 
> So it's between Oda and Kishimoto, and since among shonen authors Kishimoto is only beaten by *Oh Great* when it comes to writing awful schlock then obviously Oda is the best



Oh Great saddens me greatly.

I loved the Premise and the first arc or two of Air gear and TT, but somewhere along the line the plot got worse, the fights more ridiculous, and the story confusing and unnecessarily convoluted. I actually skipped that major flash back in TT as i had no idea what the hell was happening. 

Although i will say that the fights in TT and Air gear for the most part are enjoyable more so the earlier ones of course.


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## Aldric (Apr 10, 2013)

Oh Great doesn't piss me off as much as Kishimoto but he's pretty much unintelligible so he fails at the very basics of storytelling


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Oh Great doesn't piss me off as much as Kishimoto but he's pretty much *unintelligible so he fails at the very basics of storytelling*



Understatement of the year 

Yea its sad though his mangas could of been great reads. As both have or had before he fucked them up great characters and decent plot/world foundation.


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## Golden Witch (Apr 10, 2013)

ShinyMarch said:


> Kubo is the best by a fair margin,3 different worlds? what else you want?







*Spoiler*: __ 






Still lacks the Chess level below Gameboard though.


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## Geralt of Rivia (Apr 10, 2013)

There's only one man who can write compelling female characters. Tite Kubo. Incidentally, his characters are also the strongest and have the most depth.

Our Lord Kubo, of course, wins this bout.


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## Stannis (Apr 10, 2013)




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## Gin (Apr 10, 2013)

Oda wins this.   But Kubo's the better artist.


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## Stannis (Apr 10, 2013)

one piece lacks character  development. 
kubo is god of foreshdowing, character development/design and pretty much everything else.


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## Siema (Apr 10, 2013)

Oda sensei


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## Narutossss (Apr 10, 2013)

awful thread is awful...


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## Badalight (Apr 10, 2013)

Anyone with a brain will say One Piece. Bleach is just the same arc done 4 times with new characters. Any of his "plot twists" or literally ass pulls (Aizen twist which he admitted to being an asspull). Covering up old plot holes by revealing new information is NOT foreshadowing.


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## Inuhanyou (Apr 10, 2013)

oda by far...but if you ask me personally..kubo being shit tier with plot matters much less when his characters are what carry his manga to start with and i think they are pretty decent. kishi on the otherhand has me hating all of the characters at this point and all of the plot related developments. of course this is all in the context of the big 3 mainstream sj series..not a high barometer if we branch out a bit to other mags even still in just the shounen demographic.


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## Lord Hirako (Apr 10, 2013)

1-Kubo
2-Oda
3-Kishi


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## Bruce Wayne (Apr 10, 2013)

It's a toss between Kishi and Oda. Oda for right now is the best story writer. But, you also have to factor in that Kishi doesn't care about his own story or put much effort into it and is rushing to the end. While Oda puts all his heart and soul into it. We will have to wait until Kishi's oneshot Mario to judge his actual story writing skills.

If Kishi could write a story like the Land of Waves Arc before, he can do it again.

lolkubo.


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## Akatora (Apr 10, 2013)

I wouldn't give either the price now.

When the 3 are finished we can talk about this and see who did better, as things are now there's to many open ends.


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## Atlantic Storm (Apr 10, 2013)

During Part I of _Naruto_, I would have said Kishimoto was the best, or at the very least very closet Oda's  current level.

These days, it's easily Oda, in my opinion. The past few chapters of _Naruto_ have been good, but a few good chapters can't redeem hundreds of bad quality chapters.


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## Aldric (Apr 10, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> But, you also have to factor in that Kishi doesn't care about his own story or put much effort into it and is rushing to the end.



Yeah so he's a shit writer then



> During Part I of Naruto, I would have said Kishimoto was the best, or at the very least very closet Oda's current level.



Only up until the Gaara vs Naruto fight


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## B Rabbit (Apr 10, 2013)

The answer goes to the guy that wrote Water 7.


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## Bruce Wayne (Apr 10, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Yeah so he's a shit writer then



Actually, he's far from it.


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## jNdee~ (Apr 10, 2013)

Oda is the only one that writes a story.


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## B Rabbit (Apr 10, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Actually, he's far from it.



Anyone can right a good story once. Doesn't mean they're a consistent good writer. 

 Terrible argument. Land of Waves was good so Kishi's a really good writer. What about the next 600 chapters


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## Bruce Wayne (Apr 10, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> Anyone can right a good story once. Doesn't mean they're a consistent good writer.
> 
> Terrible argument. Land of Waves was good so Kishi's a really good writer. What about the next 600 chapters



Not everyone can write a 'good' story once. Kishi did it multiple times throughout Part 1, and even during some parts of Part 2 such as Jiraiya's story and Kushina's story. Not to mention, Kishi didn't even want to write Kushina's story. 

Also that wasn't my initial argument. My argument was that Kishi stopped caring about his story and puts no effort into it which leads to bad story telling.


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## B Rabbit (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't think Kishi stopped caring about his story. I think some of it had to do with the fact that he maybe overdid it. He maybe thought at the time it was good at the time, and that's why he put it.

It's not an excuse, he wrote a bad story, Oda's wrote some bad storys, so has every Author in their lifetime. Sometimes what we think is a good story, may not be a good story to everybody else.


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## Fujita (Apr 10, 2013)

I'd have to give it to Oda.

Kubo's like a guy that started building a tower, saw that he was doing a good job, and kept going. And then kept building even when the thing started to get too tall and unsteady. Until finally it came crashing down, and he found himself sitting on his ass in the dirt amidst the wreckage of his story. And that is how well he handled his conflict resolution in the FKT/Deicide arcs.


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## Mizura (Apr 10, 2013)

10 votes for Kubo? Seriously? Please tell me they're joke votes.


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## Shinryu (Apr 10, 2013)

Oda obviously since OP's plot is unpredictable and good
Naruto's plot is absolute shit now thanks to Kishimoto
Bleach never had a freaking plot to begin with after the Aizen arc


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## Alita (Apr 10, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



[/QUOTE]




Knew this would come in handy one of these days. 



Byrdman said:


> Are you trying to prove some point or something, cause this thread has been done over a fuckton already...
> 
> and a shitstorm will happen



Also this. 

One thing is for certain though, bleach is by far the worst amongist the HST. Even fairy tail is spectacular in comparison.


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## Torpedo Titz (Apr 10, 2013)

Bleach's simple storylines achieve their purpose: to provide a linear continuity for the cast - Kubo's main focus - to enact grand battles, rivalries and such upon. This is how the manga has been for the greater portion of its life. On the contrary, the Soul Society arc seemed to promise a grand war between two factions. In actuality this turned out to be a series of duels much like the Soul Society arc - the set-up arc- was itself. No real sense of narrative progress was made in 28 volumes worth of material. However, this is Bleach's nature, take it or leave it, as is Kubo's tendency to invent swathes of characters to resolve mindblock (self-admittedly).

To me Naruto's current story is needlessly complicated when pre-timeskip excelled in its simplistic formula. Character development was central to the story and the cast would grow as the setting was explored. Nowadays, I feel like Kishimoto needs to tack things onto this tumour resulting in plot holes, inconsistencies and explanations which don't feel as if they were planned ahead of time. Really, how many lies and bullshit has Sasuke been through over the last near-decade to reach the current point? Sasuke feels like a ball inside a machine with no sense of identity. It's just a mess. There's no real sense of depth to this situation and it's confusing to think about.

So this leaves One Piece. It achieves what it sets out to do. There's no pretentious story-telling and thanks to simple literary devices Oda inserts into his story well ahead of time, such as foreshadowing, the narrative has remained largely consistent. My only complaint is One Piece's length. The manga could reach or even surpass 1000 chapters. That's unnecessarily long and frankly the development doesn't match this span of time. I've seen 50-episode anime or light novel series which do a much more thorough and comprehensive job of world building than One Piece in _far_ less reading/viewing hours. So this is no justification for a manga already spanning 700 chapters with no definite end in sight with a plethora of questions integral to the story and setting still unanswered. An example of this being done well? Fullmetal Alchemist.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 10, 2013)

^. The longer the better just more stuff for us to enjoy and re-read.


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## Akatora (Apr 10, 2013)

ah screw it


Kubo made Zombie Powder, Zombie Powder is the most likely of these series to have seen an end, so Kubo is the only one who got a finished product. Which makes Kubo win by default.


Granted even back then Kubo wrote to be more about action than plot.


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## Syed (Apr 10, 2013)

BD said:


> This NOT which one is your favorite series. I want your honest, unbiased opinions on which mangaka is the best in terms of writing a story, based on story plotting, foreshadowing, character development/design, etc, etc. Who do you think does it the best?



Tite Kubo.


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## Shock Therapy (Apr 10, 2013)

oda               .


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## Morglay (Apr 11, 2013)

I am a hippie so I condone this recycled topic. Kubo.


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## Shrike (Apr 11, 2013)

Whoever cast a vote for Kubo, jokingly or not, should be skinned alive, impaled on a stake and then burned.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Apr 11, 2013)

Gin said:


> Oda wins this.   But Kubo's the better artist.


hehehhehe

hatifwhatever butthurt neg commence in 3 2 1


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## Magician (Apr 11, 2013)

projectcapsule said:


> hehehhehe
> 
> hatifwhatever butthurt neg commence in 3 2 1



Yeah, let's use Kubo's worst artwork and compare it to Oda's and Kishi's best. Cause that's not heavily biased at all. 

But I'm not going to spamming you with this arc's amazing artwork and character designs, because unfortunately I have a paper to write and don't have the time to point out the stupidity in your post.

Instead I'm going to link you to here: 

Have fun.


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## Stannis (Apr 11, 2013)

No one can top this art.


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## Jagger (Apr 11, 2013)

Boshi said:


> one piece lacks character  development.
> kubo is god of foreshdowing, character development/design and pretty much everything else.


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## Imagine (Apr 11, 2013)

Boshi said:


> No one can top this art.


What am I looking at?


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## Stannis (Apr 11, 2013)

Imagine said:


> What am I looking at?



kishi's art.


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## Kirito (Apr 11, 2013)

Imagine said:


> What am I looking at?



why don't you use your _imagine_-ation 

that was bad


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## Seto Kaiba (Apr 11, 2013)

Oda, and then as of recently Kubo. Kishi just manages to get worse and worse.


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## Narutossss (Apr 11, 2013)

projectcapsule said:


> hehehhehe
> 
> *hatifwhatever butthurt neg commence in 3 2 1*



so I'm not the only one hatif negs after being butthurt about something I said about bleach


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Apr 11, 2013)

BD said:


> Yeah, let's use Kubo's worst artwork and compare it to Oda's and Kishi's best. Cause that's not heavily biased at all.
> 
> But I'm not going to spamming you with this arc's amazing artwork and character designs, because unfortunately I have a paper to write and don't have the time to point out the stupidity in your post.
> 
> ...


oh just look at all those detailed images


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## Melodie (Apr 11, 2013)

Although One piece is not outstanding for me, I find the other two to be pretty bad. So my vote goes there.



projectcapsule said:


> hehehhehe
> 
> hatifwhatever butthurt neg commence in 3 2 1



Well, when it comes to details and backgrounds, One Piece is the best yeah. Although if we include characters, etc, it sometimes become too cluttered. anyway, backgrounds are usually done by assistants.


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## Imagine (Apr 11, 2013)

Boshi said:


> kishi's art.


10/10


Kirito said:


> why don't you use your _imagine_-ation
> 
> that was bad


It's okay, my boy.


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## Narutossss (Apr 11, 2013)

so this went from a writing thread into an art one? ok... I'm game, personally I think oda art is too overrated, it's ok but alot of the times becomes fucking cluttered, naruto suffers from this sometimes as well. to be honest I wouldn't say one is better than the other. there's never enough in kubo's pages, kishi is way to inconsistant, one chapter could look amazing while the next looks like dog shit. Oda draws too much crap in every panel.


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## Dellinger (Apr 11, 2013)

Oda is easily the best.No contest.

Regarding the art.Yeah,it's really difficult to draw faces that cover up all the panels


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## Bruce Wayne (Apr 11, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Oda,* and then as of recently Kubo.* Kishi just manages to get worse and worse.



You are joking right?


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## The World (Apr 11, 2013)




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## Black Mirror (Apr 12, 2013)

Yeah, Kishi is gay, we know it.


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## The World (Apr 12, 2013)

Even gay JoJo characters ooze manliness and charisma, which is more than I can say for yourself


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## Seto Kaiba (Apr 12, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> You are joking right?



Kishi's writing has tanked, so no.


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## Hakan Erkan (Apr 12, 2013)

Jon Stark said:


> So this leaves One Piece. It achieves what it sets out to do. There's no pretentious story-telling and thanks to simple literary devices Oda inserts into his story well ahead of time, such as foreshadowing, the narrative has remained largely consistent. My only complaint is One Piece's length. The manga could reach or even surpass 1000 chapters. That's unnecessarily long and frankly the development doesn't match this span of time. I've seen 50-episode anime or light novel series which do a much more thorough and comprehensive job of world building than One Piece in _far_ less reading/viewing hours. So this is no justification for a manga already spanning 700 chapters with no definite end in sight with a plethora of questions integral to the story and setting still unanswered. An example of this being done well? Fullmetal Alchemist.



True,Oda himself has admitted he's bad at pacing. One Piece was supposed to last 5 years and it's been 15 tears now. His pacing often causes arcs to drag out, which can sometimes dull the enjoyment until something awesome happens and make the scenes seem a little repetitive. 
But when you read OP collectively and not in a weekly, chapter by chapter basis (which is not the way OP is meant to be read at all) then I wouldn't mind the pacing at all.


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## Bruce Wayne (Apr 12, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Kishi's writing has tanked, so no.



As in tanked you must mean he's not trying at all.

When Kishi actually tries he is on a different level. 

There have been moments in Part 2 that show Kishi's great writing skills.


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## Imagine (Apr 12, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> As in tanked you must mean he's not trying at all.


No he's means he's trying, but he's still failing.


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## Bruce Wayne (Apr 12, 2013)

Imagine said:


> No he's means he's trying, but he's still failing.



No need to explain, I know exactly what he was saying.

I'm just pointing out that he is wrong.


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## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> As in tanked you must mean he's not trying at all.
> 
> When Kishi actually tries he is on a different level.
> 
> There have been moments in Part 2 that show Kishi's great writing skills.



What are these moments, I need a good laugh


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## Inuhanyou (Apr 13, 2013)

kishi is shit, that's just objective. People seem to have a habit though to lowering their standards so much that they think shit is good


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## Sablés (Apr 13, 2013)

Is this a joke?


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## Shiny (Apr 13, 2013)

Tobito show Kishi's great writing skills.


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## Sablés (Apr 13, 2013)

It never ceases to amaze me when people chose Kubo's background art to prove a point when it's been made clear time again that he specializes on facial expressions and character designs whereas the likes of Oda prefer the former.


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## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> It never ceases to amaze me when people chose Kubo's background art to prove a point when it's been made clear time again that he specializes on facial expressions and character designs whereas the likes of Oda prefer the former.



Who cares, Kubo sucks at all three of these things


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Apr 13, 2013)

Sabl?s said:


> It never ceases to amaze me when people chose Kubo's background art to prove a point when it's been made clear time again that he specializes on facial expressions and character designs whereas the likes of Oda prefer the former.



awsum facial experssions


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## Sablés (Apr 13, 2013)

Ignorance is truly a beautiful thing.

No point in wasting time on you clowns, needlessly.


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## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

Ok you keep on praising a hack for ejaculating ink on a blank piece of paper then and we'll keep on having good taste in art


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## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

Oh man I completely forgot this guy

_it's been made clear time again that he specializes on facial expressions and character designs_


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## tupadre97 (Apr 13, 2013)

Oda. How is this even debateable?


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## Cheeky (Apr 13, 2013)

Oda or Kubo.


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## Bruce Wayne (Apr 13, 2013)

Aldric said:


> What are these moments, I need a good laugh



-Jiraiya's Death
-The Pein Arc excluding the ending
-The First Arc in Part 2
-Kuchina's flashback(probably the whole confining Junchuuriki Arc)

Basically anything that didn't include Uchiha.




Cheeky said:


> Oda or Kubo.


Call me when Kubo writes something like the Land of Waves.


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## Edward Newgate (Apr 13, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> Oda or Kubo.


Kubo...? Why, exactly?

Bleach's most popular arc, Soul Society arc, could've ended without Aizen's pointless plan:
- Finds Rukia's whereabouts.
- Murders Chamber 46 and takes their place.
- Orders the Gotei to retrieve her.
- Puts her to trial for her oh-so-horrible crime of giving her powers away to save humans, and orders her execution by SS's most lethal weapon, the Sokyoko (and almost nobody bats an eye, showing their utter lack of morals and sense of justice and judgement).
- He goes around the place trying to investigate the whole thing, since it seemed fishy to him, showing Kubo's lack of planning of the big twist (Aizen being evil).
- Then, when the execution fails, Aizen reveals that he had another extraction method all along, which he didn't use for no reason.

When an entire arc of arc can end within 5 minutes but lasts for 100+ chapters... it's a problem.

Then we have Hueco Mundo, which only had fights after fights after fights without much plot. Orihime is first kidnapped because of Aizen's interest in her powers, but then it's revealed that she was kidnapped because Aizen knew in advance that Yamamoto would send Captains to retrieve her (even though he was wrong at first, because Yamamoto declared her as a traitor for no reason, showing once against how much of an idiot he is). So neither Aizen or Orihime herself utilize those special powers, despite Aizen's interest in them and Orihime's plan to destroy the Hogyoko. Unlike Rukia who could do nothing, Orihime didn't even try to do anything. She simply set there the whole time, took some beating (THREE TIMES) from the same bitches who she healed (TWICE) and cried.

Oda > Kishi > Kubo.


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## Shrike (Apr 13, 2013)

I read about ~25 manga in my life, which isn't too much, but it's enough. I can safely say that Bleach is the worst manga I have ever read.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Apr 13, 2013)

Unlike you guys i actually do like Kubo's simplistic art.


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## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> -Jiraiya's Death



Shit, his death felt entirely pointless outside of giving Naruto a powerup he should have received after the timeskip if Kishimoto wasn't inept, the way he died, transmitted the message and the decoding made everyone look like complete simpletons too


> -The Pein Arc excluding the ending



Hahaha no, first of all you can't ignore that ending because it's enough to make that arc garbage, but even if Kishimoto somehow didn't hit the reset button at the end, making everything that happend before essentially pointless (that's a pattern here) the arc sucked anyway

Pain is an absolutely awful character who has nothing on the Uchiha when it comes to being a whiny vindictive teenager with absurd eyeball powers, Konan is a parody of the useless Naruto female, the hilarious Hinata suicide scene only pairing fans can read with a straight face, the entire side cast acting like hapless bystanders in a fruitless attempt to hype Naruto after he spent half the story being a secondary character in his own manga etc



> -The First Arc in Part 2



What the one that basically boils down to "rescue Gaara" right after we came back from two years of "rescue Sasuke"

The one where Lee Neji and Tenten fought their clones off panel, where Naruto started being useless, and where the cool looking monster and legendary ninja from Akatsuki turned out to be a moody pretty boy with parents issues before getting his ass kicked by someone who should never have survived more than ten seconds against him

Oh but yeah Sakura did stuff, that's great if you're a Sakura fan (hahahahaha)



> -Kuchina's flashback(probably the whole confining Junchuuriki Arc)



Oh yeah, that Armadillo dick joke will stay in memories as the apex of mature and witty literature 



> Basically anything that didn't include Uchiha.



No everything outside of this clan of fruitcakes is terrible too


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## B Rabbit (Apr 13, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> -Jiraiya's Death
> -The Pein Arc excluding the ending
> -The First Arc in Part 2
> -Kuchina's flashback(probably the whole confining Junchuuriki Arc)
> ...



Jiriya didn't even have a good death. I mean yeah the flashback was good, but the actually arc around that was awful.

The pain arc wasn't even good, it was just a mindless fights, and then the end got revived. I could give a darn less what you say, I'm not excluding a mjor part of the story so you can have an argument.

The first arc was rescue Garaa? That was decent.

I don't even remember Kuchina.

Stop with the bullshiting. I personally thought SS > Land of Waves.


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## B Rabbit (Apr 13, 2013)

Kubo is good at character models, but even then I don't find it to be amazing. 

I've only begun reading Vagabond and the character models are way better than Bleach's.


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## The World (Apr 13, 2013)

Aldric said:


> What are these moments, I need a good laugh



You just mad you don't have a gay love as strong as Nardo and Saucekay-koon


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## The World (Apr 13, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> Jiriya didn't even have a good death. I mean yeah the flashback was good, but the actually arc around that was awful.
> 
> The pain arc wasn't even good, it was just a mindless fights, and then the end got revived. I could give a darn less what you say, I'm not excluding a mjor part of the story so you can have an argument.
> 
> ...



You're right, Jiraiya didn't have a good death, he had a great death

And the fuck do you mean Pain arc was just mindless fights? lol

Jiraiya vs Pain was Jiraiya getting intel on Akatsuki which resulted in his death

And then it was Naruto vs Pain you dong. The penultimate battle where Konoha now acknowledges Naruto as a hero.


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## B Rabbit (Apr 13, 2013)

> You're right, Jiraiya didn't have a good death, he had a great death


No he didn't again. He died just for Naruto to get another training session which he should have gotten during the timeskip.


> And the fuck do you mean Pain arc was just mindless fights? lol


The fact that I read the series 3 times, and yet the plot of the arc doesn't ring a bell in my head, but all the fights do should tell you something.


> Jiraiya vs Pain was Jiraiya getting intel on Akatsuki which resulted in his death


Good for him, he did something in one fight that he's been trying to do since before the timeskip.



> And then it was Naruto vs Pain you dong. The penultimate battle where Konoha now acknowledges Naruto as a hero.



In Ebisu's flashback it already showed that the he was already accepted. It was cool that it happened but nothing that we already knew was coming.


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## The World (Apr 13, 2013)

You basically said nothing


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## Ryuksgelus (Apr 13, 2013)

The World said:


> You're right, Jiraiya didn't have a good death, he had a great death
> 
> And the fuck do you mean Pain arc was just mindless fights? lol
> 
> ...



Not sure if serious........


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## B Rabbit (Apr 13, 2013)

I said everything.  

I don't just look at the good things, I look at the retarded things surrounding it. 

I can easily say Punk Harazard was a good arc, Monet's death scene, Law vs. Smoker, Caeser, and Vergo etc. 

However then comes the reality that surrounded the arc. 

Crackbabies, Running away from a poison that couldn't kill you, The SH's being completely retarded during the entire thing. The whole Yeti Cool Brothers incident.

So what if he had a good death, the bs that surrounded it completely ruined the entire thing. Jiriya's death wasn't needed, and it was retarded, and it almost ruined any potential the character had.


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## The World (Apr 13, 2013)

His death was to motivate Naruto into killing the Akatsuki leader and ending their threat once and for all.

Though obviously we knew the truth


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## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

The World said:


> You're right, Jiraiya didn't have a good death, he had a great death
> 
> And the fuck do you mean Pain arc was just mindless fights? lol
> 
> ...



He died for the stupidest fucking reason

He already had a Pain corpse, these two dudes from rain village and a pretty strong suspicion/idea about who or what Pain was

He died because he wanted to get a good look at faces he had ample time to look at already, which basically feels like he committed suicide

And then the whole shitshow with the finest minds of Konoha going AR DURR HURR I WONDER WHAT DA REAL ONE ISNT WID DEM MEANS???

Hi I'm Shikamaru the super genius with a 598 IQ but I couldn't resolve an obvious problem if it was sitting on my face

That's because my creator is mentally retarded


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 13, 2013)

It didn't end a threat at all though.  I still don't get why Naruto didn't have a motivation in the first place, since you know they were after him, and trying to kill him. 

But whatever, that opens up a whole can of worms of why I felt the timeskip was unnecessary.


----------



## The World (Apr 13, 2013)

He didn't want to run away like a bitch Aldric-koon

He ain't no Uchiha


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 13, 2013)

What a messy bunch of letters you're all typing out. Crazy.

Even Bleach's most questionable developments haven't caused me to drop the manga. Or even want to.

Anyway, this post should help explain my reasons;



Jon Stark said:


> Bleach's simple storylines achieve their purpose: to provide a linear continuity for the cast - Kubo's main focus - to enact grand battles, rivalries and such upon. This is how the manga has been for the greater portion of its life. On the contrary, the Soul Society arc seemed to promise a grand war between two factions. In actuality this turned out to be a series of duels much like the Soul Society arc - the set-up arc- was itself. No real sense of narrative progress was made in 28 volumes worth of material. However, this is Bleach's nature, take it or leave it, as is Kubo's tendency to invent swathes of characters to resolve mindblock (self-admittedly).
> 
> To me Naruto's current story is needlessly complicated when pre-timeskip excelled in its simplistic formula. Character development was central to the story and the cast would grow as the setting was explored. Nowadays, I feel like Kishimoto needs to tack things onto this tumour resulting in plot holes, inconsistencies and explanations which don't feel as if they were planned ahead of time. Really, how many lies and bullshit has Sasuke been through over the last near-decade to reach the current point? Sasuke feels like a ball inside a machine with no sense of identity. It's just a mess. There's no real sense of depth to this situation and it's confusing to think about.
> 
> So this leaves One Piece. It achieves what it sets out to do. There's no pretentious story-telling and thanks to simple literary devices Oda inserts into his story well ahead of time, such as foreshadowing, the narrative has remained largely consistent. My only complaint is One Piece's length. The manga could reach or even surpass 1000 chapters. That's unnecessarily long and frankly the development doesn't match this span of time. I've seen 50-episode anime or light novel series which do a much more thorough and comprehensive job of world building than One Piece in _far_ less reading/viewing hours. So this is no justification for a manga already spanning 700 chapters with no definite end in sight with a plethora of questions integral to the story and setting still unanswered. An example of this being done well? Fullmetal Alchemist.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 13, 2013)

Either way, I think it's shit that Tsunade and Orochimaru keep having opportunities to redeem themselves and fail at it while Jiriya is no where in sight.


----------



## The World (Apr 13, 2013)

Bleach is terrible, stop kidding yourselves.

But hey, at least it's not as bad as Fairy Tail.

So you have that little victory


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 13, 2013)

Has anybody been defending Part 2 of Nardo yet? I could use a laugh.


----------



## RF (Apr 13, 2013)

Bleach>Naruto


----------



## Impact (Apr 13, 2013)

I guess people really love to compare authors with each others I really don't see why its really relevant to find out who's the best.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

Peace out bro


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 13, 2013)

Shakespeare > Homer


----------



## RF (Apr 13, 2013)

Oda>Shakespeare


----------



## Edward Newgate (Apr 13, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> What a messy bunch of letters you're all typing out. Crazy.
> 
> Even Bleach's most questionable developments haven't caused me to drop the manga. Or even want to.
> 
> Anyway, this post should help explain my reasons;


How does it make Kubo a good writer?


----------



## Markel (Apr 13, 2013)

Oda>Kubo>=Kishi

That said, it matters not _to me_. As long as I enjoy the series, I'm all good.


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 13, 2013)

Edward Newgate said:


> How does it make Kubo* better than Kishimoto*?



Kishi's work is full of plot holes, retcons, inconsistencies, terrible characters with horrible development and contradictory themes. Part 2 was like reading fan fiction, to me.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

what are you talking about, kubo is the textbook of retcons, inconsistances and terrible characters, fuck the manga doesn't even have a plot.


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 13, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> what are you talking about, kubo is the textbook of retcons, inconsistances and terrible characters, fuck the manga doesn't even have a plot.


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Apr 13, 2013)

Kishimoto takes his story too seriously. It's evident in the way he attempts grand setups and dozens of simultaneous storylines. Naruto is currently like the Gordian Knot which can't be appreciated in its entirety. While you can be attracted to individual threads, the overall narrative is truly cancerous and needs to be cut out.

As I've said before, all Kubo _really_ does is create a plane for his characters to battle on. You can criticise his execution all the same, but the point still stands. If Kishimoto ever successfully achieved what he attempts, Naruto would be a respectable Shounen akin to FMA. But it hasn't, so it isn't (imo).

Oda is generally a good writer. Considering how One Piece's only real rival is Naruto (lol) it makes him look all the better. Hence 'Goda.'

Would I take Kubo's simplicity over Kishimoto's story which resembles a third-world African government? Yep. But I would take JoJos over both of them. At least if I were 15 again and not a sci-fi fanboy.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

lol can't come up with a defence?


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

Jon Stark said:


> Kishimoto takes his story too seriously. It's evident in the way he attempts grand setups and dozens of simultaneous storylines. Naruto is currently like the Gordian Knot which can't be appreciated in its entirety. While you can be attracted to individual threads, the overall narrative is truly cancerous and needs to be cut out.
> 
> *As I've said before, all Kubo really does is create a plane for his characters to battle on. You can criticise his execution all the same, but the point still stands*. If Kishimoto ever successfully achieved what he attempts, Naruto would be a respectable Shounen akin to FMA. But it hasn't, so it isn't (imo).
> 
> Oda is generally a good writer. Considering how One Piece's only real rival is Naruto (lol) it makes him look all the better. Hence 'Goda.'



what the actual fuck is this suppose to mean? you're clearly dogding the fact that kubo is a hack writter.


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 13, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> lol can't come up with a defence?


I see little point in arguing if your mind has already been made up.


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Apr 13, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> what the actual fuck is this suppose to mean? you're clearly dogding the fact that kubo is a hack writter.



>Thinks I'm defending Kubo
>One delusion leads to another

Okay. This you'll understand:

When Kubo make paint on cave wall, Kubo only use small bit of paint on cave wall being imaginary land. Kubo use more paint on people and their fights. This because Kubo has small time. Oda and Kishi have small time too. But their paint on cave wall is different.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

fair enough. (at cheeky)


----------



## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

Here I use easy analogy to describing difference betwenn Kobo and Kushimito: a empty cardboard box is better than big pile of cow dung


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

Jon Stark said:


> >Thinks I'm defending Kubo
> >One delusion leads to another
> 
> Okay. This you'll understand:
> ...


?
you're an idiot...


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 13, 2013)

Torafarugo Ro said:


> .
> 
> Stop with the bullshiting. I personally thought *SS > Land of Waves.*



    

Not by a long shot my friend.



Cheeky said:


> Kishi's work is full of plot holes, retcons, inconsistencies, terrible characters with horrible development and contradictory themes. Part 2 was like reading fan fiction, to me.



And Kubo's work doesn't?


----------



## Sablés (Apr 13, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> ?
> you're an idiot...



Oh the irony.


----------



## katanalauncher (Apr 13, 2013)

Let's see Oda is best at set pieces and flashbacks.
Kishi is best at crafting an interesting world
Kubo is.. well KUBO


----------



## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

katanalauncher said:


> Kishi is best at crafting an interesting world



The interesting world composed of a bunch of generic forests and villages we never visit

The interesting world that gravitates exclusively around Sasuke's asshole


----------



## katanalauncher (Apr 13, 2013)

Aldric said:


> The interesting world composed of a bunch of generic forests and villages we never visit
> 
> The interesting world that gravitates exclusively around Sasuke's asshole



I'd say the shinobi world as a whole is pretty interesting, even when Kishi failed to explore a lot of them.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Apr 13, 2013)

Oda = Ohba > Arakawa > Kishi >= Morikawa > Toriyama > Watsuki >  Shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kubo.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 13, 2013)

katanalauncher said:


> I'd say the shinobi world as a whole is pretty interesting, even when Kishi failed to explore a lot of them.



The concept is interesting and it had potential, but he miserably failed to do anything with it, just like everything else in that piece of shit manga

So no he definitely isn't any good at "crafting an interesting world", actually worldbuilding might be one of the very worst aspects of Naruto with character development and thematic coherence


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

I disagree, kishi's worldbuilding isn't bad at all nor is it good, he's never really touched that aspect much and why should he, this is a fucking ninja manga, ninja's don't get on pirate ships and say the world looking for adventures and as for the little world building that's in it, it's fairly modarate.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 13, 2013)

Asa-Kun said:


> Oda = Ohba > Arakawa > Kishi >= Morikawa > Toriyama > Watsuki >  Shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kubo.



Haha, no


----------



## Tash (Apr 13, 2013)

> I disagree, kishi's worldbuilding isn't bad at all nor is it good, he's never really touched that aspect much and why should he, this is a fucking ninja manga, ninja's don't get on pirate ships and say the world looking for adventures and as for the little world building that's in it, it's fairly modarate.



Eh not really.

From the go it was explained that naruto ninjas take on missions that take them all across the world and into different countries. The first story arc was a good example of that. It's what presumably all the other ninja's did during their time off screen during the skip and otherwise, and it could of been seamlessly incorporated into the missions that we did see like retrieving Tsunade for just one example.

Kishimoto DID start some world building, then basically ignored it for all the middle part of the story and is now cramming it all into the end of the story. Which is why it's really bad.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Apr 13, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Haha, no



*Yes.*


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

Tash said:


> Eh not really.
> 
> From the go it was explained that naruto ninjas take on missions that take them all across the world and into different countries. The first story arc was a good example of that. It's what presumably all the other ninja's did during their time off screen during the skip and otherwise, and it could of been seamlessly incorporated into the missions that we did see like retrieving Tsunade for just one example.
> 
> Kishimoto DID start some world building, then basically ignored it for all the middle part of the story and is now cramming it all into the end of the story. Which is why it's really bad.



how is now cramming it all at the end?


----------



## Punk Zebra (Apr 13, 2013)

Oda no contest


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

Tash said:


> Because a lot of important details were completely ignored for the majority of the story and are now being introduced, developed, and resolved (sloppily) at the end of the story.



for example?


----------



## Viper (Apr 13, 2013)

lol @ Kishi's worldbuilding being superior to Oda's


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 13, 2013)

Asa-Kun said:


> *Yes.*



*No.*


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

Viper said:


> lol @ Kishi's worldbuilding being superior to Oda's



I don't remember anybody saying this


----------



## Aeiou (Apr 13, 2013)

Look at that Naruto dedication to Kishimoto on a naruto forum.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 13, 2013)

Aeiou said:


> Look at that Naruto dedication to Kishimoto on a naruto forum.


the amount of people who voted is not even like 1% of the whole forum. most wouldn't care enough to even vote, I certainly didn't vote.


----------



## vanhellsing (Apr 13, 2013)

no one .the HST sucks everywhere


----------



## Jungle (Apr 13, 2013)

Boshi said:


> one piece lacks character  development.
> kubo is god of foreshdowing, character development/design and pretty much everything else.



I really hope this post is sarcastic, next thing you know you'll be telling me he fills in his backgrounds.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 13, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> awful thread is awful...



Narutossss


----------



## Tray (Apr 13, 2013)

Godbo


----------



## Jungle (Apr 13, 2013)

I can't believe people are actually saying Bleach is better than One Piece, wow.


----------



## Gin (Apr 13, 2013)

jungle said:


> I can't believe people are actually saying Bleach is better than One Piece, wow.


Bleach has many superior aspects, but I will admit that storytelling as a whole is not one of them.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 13, 2013)

List them if you please fellow.


----------



## SternRitter (Apr 13, 2013)

jungle said:


> List them if you please fellow.



The females


----------



## Gin (Apr 13, 2013)

jungle said:


> List them if you please fellow.



Superior in Bleach:

_Character_ art
Character development
Suspense from chapter to chapter

About equal:

Fight scenes

Superior in OP:

Overall narrative
World building
Humor


----------



## The World (Apr 14, 2013)

>Character development

>None of them have it

And suspense really? Maybe once an arc, or once a flashback.


----------



## Gin (Apr 14, 2013)

The World said:


> >Character development
> 
> >None of them have it
> 
> And suspense really? Maybe once an arc, or once a flashback.


The latest arc has included a lot of chapter-to-chapter suspense.

And I'm not claiming the character development in Bleach to be magnificent, far from it, only that it goes a little further than OP.   But then again I read neither for their character development.


----------



## Stannis (Apr 14, 2013)

jungle said:


> I really hope this post is sarcastic, next thing you know you'll be telling me he fills in his backgrounds.



you really had to make a dupe just to say that 

character development  in Bleach is great. some ppl are just too stupid to see it.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 14, 2013)

> character development in Bleach is great.


----------



## kratos184 (Apr 14, 2013)

Aldric from what manga is avatar?


----------



## Imagine (Apr 14, 2013)

^Shingeki no Kyojin


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

Shingeki has more story than any SJ series


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 14, 2013)

lol butthurt bleach fans negging me... predictable and even funnier one piece fan making dupe accounts to talk shit because he's too pussy to use he's real one. lol  don't even know why people are getting fustrated to begin with there much better manga these out there anyway.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Apr 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> *No.*





No.No.(And lol)*No*.


----------



## Viper (Apr 14, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> I don't remember anybody saying this


Really? 



katanalauncher said:


> Let's see Oda is best at set pieces and flashbacks.
> *Kishi is best at crafting an interesting world*
> Kubo is.. well KUBO


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Apr 14, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Shingeki has more story than any SJ series



Berserk would like to have a word with you.


----------



## Torpedo Titz (Apr 14, 2013)

Yeah, but Berserk is completely irrelevant. Why bring an ICBM to a fist-fight.

At least SnK is relevant given how it's a Shounen with a regular release schedule.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 14, 2013)

Asa-Kun said:


> Berserk would like to have a word with you.



UHHHHHHHHHHH

1. Berserk aint even a Shounen so its pretty unfair.

2. Yeah, berserk can be good, when it actually comes out.

Those points being said

I also like Shingeki because its events so far have all correlated to the actual happenings and themes of the story. Its not just shock factor for the cause of shock factor which Berserk has been guilty of in some occasions and something like Gantz is basically always guilty of.

I don't think its unfair to say that, not only as a shounen, but as a manga in general, Shingeki is pretty dern impressive so far.

What i find kind of funny is how Isayama originally went with his rough draft to SJ, but they actually rejected him pretty harshly because Shingeki didn't fit the "SJ mold" whatever teh fuck that meant. Now he's doing successful and their out of a gem of an IP.


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 14, 2013)

Berserk isn't even a shounen.


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 14, 2013)

It's threads like these that convince me not enough people here read proper books.


----------



## Black Mirror (Apr 15, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> It's threads like these that convince me not enough people here read proper books.



Which is logical in a thread dedicated to the 3 named books?


----------



## Space (Apr 15, 2013)

Cheeky said:


> It's threads like these that convince me not enough people here read proper books.



Comparing "proper" books with shounen manga is like comparing chess with football or basketball.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Narutossss said:


> lol butthurt bleach fans negging me... predictable and even funnier one piece fan making dupe accounts to talk shit because he's too pussy to use he's real one. lol .



Lol, I'm not a dupe, I just came here out of my own free will son.

Why I would do that is anyone's guess, I recognize you from my lurking on Arlong Park  though.
BUGGY IS THE FINAL BOSS.


"to use he's real one"

Wow to use he's real one, god your grammar is worse than my own and that's saying something.

I hate bleach.


Boshi said:


> you really had to make a dupe just to say that
> 
> character development  in Bleach is great. some ppl are just too stupid to see it.


I can't take someone  who say's bleach has good character development seriously.

What is Aizen your favourite character or something, do you like the amazing backgrounds? 

Ahahaha.


----------



## synthax (Apr 15, 2013)

jungle is probably from AP forums,we all know that they hate on everything that is Bleach and Naruto even have a thread dedicated to bashing them ,bunch on deluded fools they are.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

synthax said:


> jungle is probably from AP forums,we all know that they hate on everything that is Bleach and Naruto even have a thread dedicated to bashing them ,bunch on deluded fools they are.



I'm not from apforums, I just lurk.

I am currently viewing the humour thread......




It's better than this pit for sure.


----------



## The World (Apr 15, 2013)

Kevintju said:


> Comparing "proper" books with shounen manga is like comparing chess with football or basketball.



He loves Bleach, his brain is partially impaired


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 15, 2013)

'Proper books' can be shit as much as manga you know....you don't need me to list examples to know that


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Some good background here.


----------



## synthax (Apr 15, 2013)

What does Bleach's back ground have to do with anything,if your going to complain about character development at least try putting forth an argument  explaining why it does not have good character development.

It is also laughable to compare art,OP art  is simply not as good as Bleach from the sloppy panels to the ridiculous character designs.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

synthax said:


> What does Bleach's back ground have to do with anything,if your going to complain about character development at least try putting forth an argument  explaining why it does not have good character development.
> 
> It is also laughable to compare art,OP art  is simply not as good as Bleach from the sloppy panels to the ridiculous character designs.





Yes and these guys have very serious character designs.


----------



## Dellinger (Apr 15, 2013)

synthax said:


> What does Bleach's back ground have to do with anything,if your going to complain about character development at least try putting forth an argument  explaining why it does not have good character development.
> 
> It is also laughable to compare art,OP art  is simply not as good as Bleach from the sloppy panels to the ridiculous character designs.



Sloppy panels?At least Oda draws many stuff in every panel unlike Kubo who only draws the faces of his characters which is ridiculously easy.
And the character designs of OP are easily better than Bleach's.

Just posting this because it looks so much better than any panel in Bleach


----------



## synthax (Apr 15, 2013)

jungle said:


> Yes and these guys have very serious character designs.



???

How does this compare to OP's disproportional ink blobs.



White Hawk said:


> Sloppy panels?At least Oda draws many stuff in every panel unlike Kubo who only draws the faces of his characters which is ridiculously easy.
> And the character designs of OP are easily better than Bleach's.
> 
> Just posting this because it looks so much better than any panel in Bleach



Yes sloppy panels,its stacked with speech bubbles,the art work looks incomplete.
Oh its the Kubo's draw character with similar faces complaint while completely forgetting that every female in OP that is supposed to be "pretty' have similar faces and similar figures.Yh even that panel looks incomplete go check Yama's  artwork way better that what Oda did with white beard.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Yes, One Piece lacks in comparsion to Bleach and Naruto.

Keep telling yourself that.

Edit :


----------



## Stannis (Apr 15, 2013)

> I can't take someone who say's bleach has good character development seriously.



I said great. 



jungle said:


> Some good background here.


----------



## synthax (Apr 15, 2013)

Also for jungle who just posted backgrounds from OP,yeah ODa does a good background like once  every 100 chapters completely proving my point a good artist is consistent. something Oda is not,love how  OP fans post the same panels every time  to prove his backgrounds are good.


----------



## Dellinger (Apr 15, 2013)

synthax said:


> ???
> 
> How does this compare to OP's disproportional ink blobs.
> 
> ...



I'm out,have a nice day.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Boshi said:


> I said great.



Yes, the character development in Bleach is great huh?

Edit : Wait no  I meant Orihime lol.

Rephrase instead of Orihime having to be the damsel in distress, she's grown to being a damsel in the distress, some serious character development Usopp hasn't even come close to such nope none  at it.


----------



## Silver (Apr 15, 2013)

Bleach is great, I enjoy it for the fast pace and action not so much the story line itself, though that's alright as well. The characters are rather enjoyable as well.

Naruto has a more complex story with its ups and downs, but there are barely any characters I actually like bar Kakashi and a few.

One piece is very consistent, with enjoyable characters and the series just hits all the right spots for me with Odas comedy, action, and adventure. The story is more simplistic, and clear, but it still manages to keep me quite engaged and entertained. 

Of course being biased here but of the three Oda looks like he really knows what he's doing, if that make sense.


----------



## synthax (Apr 15, 2013)

Yh jungle you have no idea what character development is, congrats.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

synthax said:


> a good artist is consistent. .






Yes, and this is good art how?


----------



## synthax (Apr 15, 2013)

IF I was to give an example from OP it would be 15/20 pages every week.You also have a hard time understanding hence the  one panel from a random chapter.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

synthax said:


> IF I was to give an example from OP it would be 15/20 pages every week.You also have a hard time understanding hence the  one panel from a random chapter.



Than give me some examples, I'm waiting.


----------



## synthax (Apr 15, 2013)

jungle said:


> Than give me some examples, I'm waiting.




*Spoiler*: __ 





pushed back
Link removed
















All poor any random page in OP shows you this


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

synthax said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only thing I see is that the people taking the photo of the panel took some bad quality shots.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Apr 15, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> UHHHHHHHHHHH
> 
> 1. Berserk aint even a Shounen so its pretty unfair.
> 
> 2. Yeah, berserk can be good, when it actually comes out.



I.R.stupid. 

Actually i knew it wasn't even before i posted that but the thought slipped my mind, because Berserk.


----------



## Stannis (Apr 15, 2013)

there's really no contest when it comes to art. Kubo stomps


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

synthax said:


> ???
> go check Yama's  artwork way better that what Oda did with white beard.



Link removed

...


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Boshi said:


> there's really no contest when it comes to art. Kubo stomps


----------



## Jagger (Apr 15, 2013)

Boshi said:


> there's really no contest when it comes to art. Kubo stomps




You love being slapped.


----------



## Stannis (Apr 15, 2013)

jungle said:


> Yes, and this is good art how?





bama **


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Boshi said:


> bama **



Applaud good sir, you got me there I must admit.


----------



## Akira Kurusu (Apr 15, 2013)

Boshi said:


> there's really no contest when it comes to art. Kubo stomps


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Boshi said:


> there's really no contest when it comes to *art.* *Kubo *stomps








I just ask for some examples please?

Also any examples on why he's a better story writer?


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Boshi said:


> one piece lacks character  development.



Lol this get's me every time.


This is just so hilarious, the entire crew got individual story arcs just for their character development.


----------



## Golden Witch (Apr 15, 2013)

Eiichiro Goda.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 15, 2013)

Silver said:


> Bleach is great, I enjoy it for the fast pace and action



Of all the things you enjoy about Bleach, the _fast pace_ and _action_ are the first things that came to mind? Really?


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Golden Witch said:


> Eiichiro Goda.


Even though I agree do you have any reasons?


----------



## p-lou (Apr 15, 2013)

hmmmmmm

zephos comix and toon link 

hmmmmmm


----------



## ensoriki (Apr 15, 2013)

jungle said:


> Yes, the character development in Bleach is great huh?
> 
> Edit : Wait no  I meant Orihime lol.
> 
> Rephrase instead of Orihime having to be the damsel in distress, she's grown to being a damsel in the distress, some serious character development Usopp hasn't even come close to such nope none  at it.



What about Orihime? Shes grown to be a damsel in distress?
Lol whut?
Some people bandwagon too much.


----------



## Akatora (Apr 15, 2013)

jungle said:


> The only thing I see is that the people taking the photo of the panel took some bad quality shots.




opinions, I'd say any one of these surpass that by a fair margin:



*Spoiler*: __ 



 Link removed

Link removed

Link removed

Link removed


----------



## Bellamy The Hyena (Apr 15, 2013)

Oda. 


It's not even close. Apologies if I sound like a dick here but I really got to wonder about the sanity of the people who voted for Kubo for serious reasons and not just out of butthurt loyalty after seeing their favourite manga widely ridiculed and Kubo serve as the incompetent clown of the manga community.


----------



## Golden Witch (Apr 15, 2013)

jungle said:


> Even though I agree do you have any reasons?



Personal preference. 

I'm no good in analyzing stories so all I can say is, I just enjoy it more.
I've read countless of Manga, and OP is only the 2nd one that actually hooks me, it's just a feel I don't have when reading Naruto or Bleach.


----------



## Akatora (Apr 15, 2013)

Bellamy The Hyena said:


> Oda.
> 
> 
> It's not even close. Apologies if I sound like a dick here but I really got to wonder about the sanity of the people who voted for Kubo for serious reasons and not just out of butthurt loyalty after seeing their favourite manga widely ridiculed and Kubo serve as the incompetent clown of the manga community.



while Kubo makes bad decisions from time to time, the incompetence of some of the readers to comprehend what is going on is the real issue.
So You guessed wrong? big deal your prediction was based on lack of insight and so when you get this insight you cry flaw since it doesn't match up with your predictions.(general talk about a lot of readers)

Those are the readers that have gotten bleach it's bad reputation imo.


Bad decisions like how the Fullbring arc ended Is however a fair point to raise the eyebrow at Kubo.(he can however make up for it in the future, which is what being ongoing open up for)


----------



## Silver (Apr 15, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Of all the things you enjoy about Bleach, the _fast pace_ and _action_ are the first things that came to mind? Really?



Pretty much, is there a problem?


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

p-lou said:


> hmmmmmm
> 
> zephos comix and toon link
> 
> hmmmmmm



Lol, I'm not Zephos I can assure you.




Akatora said:


> while Kubo makes bad decisions from time to time, the incompetence of some of the readers to comprehend what is going on is the real issue.
> So You guessed wrong? big deal your prediction was based on lack of insight and so when you get this insight you cry flaw since it doesn't match up with your predictions.(general talk about a lot of readers)
> 
> Those are the readers that have gotten bleach it's bad reputation imo.
> ...



Lol, I'd like to see him try.

Also the fact that Aizen exist(or existed).


----------



## The World (Apr 15, 2013)

Boshi said:


> I said great.


----------



## p-lou (Apr 15, 2013)

oh i know you're not zephos.  

he'd be rocking top cat anyway.

i just haven't seen a zephos comic in a long time.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 15, 2013)

Geralt of Rivia said:


> and have the most depht


Ignoring your comment about compelling female characters, "have the most  depth" I hope you don't mean character development...


> his characters are also the strongest


....and what exactly does strength have to do with being the better story writer?

...




> Lord Kubo.



I am at NF not Bleach Asylum.


----------



## Bilaal (Apr 16, 2013)

Silver said:


> Bleach is great, I enjoy it for the fast pace and action



underrated comment


----------



## Jungle (Apr 16, 2013)

It's okay, though it's still not perfect quality IMHO. /:

Though I still see he's too lazy to make some actual background apparently.


*Spoiler*: __ 











Though I do like some art.


----------



## ensoriki (Apr 16, 2013)

Are people really trying to argue art quality?
Kubo has the best character design and art. Backgrounds are near non-existant.
The background art for Kishi and Oda is eh around the same, but Oda has more interesting and changing settings so you care about his backgrounds more.


----------



## OS (Apr 16, 2013)

Does Kubo really have the best art? You can argue his characters have the most irl human qualities but OP and Naruto excell in other designs like locations, monsters, characters, etc. Before Kishi went full retard he actually drew an intimidating Fox. And dem Zabuza scenes. Oda has a lot of interesting character designs also, Cool designs are almost rare in Bleach. Everyone is wearing the same damn black or white clothes.


----------



## Stannis (Apr 16, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Everyone is wearing the same damn black or white clothes.



That's the point of uniform.


----------



## OS (Apr 16, 2013)

And it's quite boring.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Apr 16, 2013)

It's a bit ironic, because he seems to be real creative when it comes to clothing.


----------



## Akatora (Apr 16, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Does Kubo really have the best art? You can argue his characters have the most irl human qualities but OP and Naruto excell in other designs like locations, monsters, characters, etc. Before Kishi went full retard he actually drew an intimidating Fox. And dem Zabuza scenes. Oda has a lot of interesting character designs also, *Cool designs are almost rare in Bleach.* Everyone is wearing the same damn black or white clothes.



...You say that in a tone suggesting you think One Piece and NAruto are better at this... Well your opinion, lets just say we're miles apart in our views.
Naruto in general have some of the most uncool designs i've come across in shounen, while One Piece got it's own wacky style that's hard to consider cool imo.


Also what's up with your comment about everyone is wearing the same?
They're uniforms... but there's still minor changes between some of the better known characters versions(longer sleeves, folds, how they're worn etc.)


Zabuza was one of Kishi's best designs.
As for monsters, Hollows.
Hyourinmaru. Zabimaru the Soukyoku are these designs worse than what you see in the other 2?



Then again this is art talk and this thread should be about the writing


----------



## OS (Apr 16, 2013)

Iirc he said in an interview he draws clothes from magazines that he wish he had. Nothing wrong with that but he only uses that for the spread pages.


----------



## Akatora (Apr 16, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Iirc he said in an interview he draws clothes from magazines that he wish he had. Nothing wrong with that but he only uses that for the spread pages.



True with the exception of pree SS arc


----------



## taydev (Apr 16, 2013)

Akatora said:


> True with the exception of pree SS arc



And FB arc


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 16, 2013)

I think when it comes to clothing designs, Kubo outclasses Oda and Kishi, I like the designs of the clothes. ( Not I mean normal clothes, not the kimonos that the SS wears/) 

However it should be noted that there is no reason One Piece or Naruto characters should be wearing clothes like that, so obviously Kubo should outclass them.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 16, 2013)

Trying to compare OP art design with the others when Oda *specifically* draws this way baffles me...


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 16, 2013)

Pure Artistic Ability.

As in if you all tell them to draw something specific aka special art style aside Kubo>Oda>kishi.

In actual execution aka Manga. Oda>Kubo>Kishi.


----------



## OS (Apr 16, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Pure Artistic Ability.
> 
> As in if you all tell them to draw something specific aka special art style aside *Kubo*>Oda>*kishi.*
> 
> In actual execution aka Manga. Oda>Kubo>Kishi.



Actually. In a recent tribute magazine for JJBA Kishi had arguably one of the best, and I thought it was pretty good too. Kubo did a good drawing too but it was just a face.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 17, 2013)

Why are we still on the subject of art, I know I made a comment about the art but the topic is about the story NOT the art.


----------



## taydev (Apr 17, 2013)

Yes, but if anyone bothered to read the OP, he/she mentions design as well.



BD said:


> This NOT which one is your favorite series. I want your honest, unbiased opinions on which mangaka is the best in terms of writing a story, based on story plotting, foreshadowing, character development/*design*, etc, etc. Who do you think does it the best?


----------



## Jungle (Apr 17, 2013)

Ah you are correct, but design doesn't really make the better mangaka.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 17, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Actually. In a recent tribute magazine for JJBA Kishi had arguably one of the best, and I thought it was pretty good too. Kubo did a good drawing too but it was just a face.



Kishimotos was good, but so was kubos and yes it was just a face that's kubos style 

The author of Beelezbub easily won though.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Apr 17, 2013)

no yusuke murata won that


----------



## Killerqueen (Apr 17, 2013)

Hiroshi Shiibashi and yusuke murata had the best jojo drawing


----------



## Aldric (Apr 18, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Does Kubo really have the best art? You can argue his characters have the most irl human qualities but OP and Naruto excell in other designs like locations, monsters, characters, etc. Before Kishi went full retard he actually drew an intimidating Fox. And dem Zabuza scenes. Oda has a lot of interesting character designs also, Cool designs are almost rare in Bleach. Everyone is wearing the same damn black or white clothes.



Yeah I'm baffled why anyone would praise Kubo's character designs let alone put him above Oda

I think even Kishimoto has more interesting character designs occasionally

Kubo's characters lack definition to me, they all blur into my mind and are just not very interesting, unique or memorable

The fact they all wear the same plain white clothes certainly doesn't help and sure you've got some pretty creative and wacky designs but for a Mayuri or Aaararaonieoraoa how many cool posing pretty boys in the Ichigo mold with only minute differences like hair color, facial tatoos or eye shading

Kubo's art in general gives me the same feeling as reading a fashion magazine in the dentist's waiting room, you'll see a couple of cool looking images of attractive people taking affected poses and all you'll get out of it is existential emptiness


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 18, 2013)

projectcapsule said:


> no yusuke murata won that



yusuke murata always solos the tributes.


----------



## Lucaniel (Apr 18, 2013)

oda

not because he's outstanding or something, but because he's competent

there are countless more instances of deus ex machina, nonsensical plot twists, characters behaving irrationally, and so on, in the other two


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Apr 18, 2013)

Where would you all put Togashi when he feels like trying?


----------



## Aldric (Apr 18, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Where would you all put Togashi when he feels like trying?



I love how he can go from a very cartoony style to super realistic portraits at the drop of a hat

I like his character design too, except when he draws creepy anthro dog girls or something


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 18, 2013)

togashi on a bad day would still easily be better than most. (I'm talking about his writing.)


----------



## Aldric (Apr 18, 2013)

Oh yeah in terms of writing I think he's the best

He strikes me as an extremely intelligent man who has the talent and ability to make the most mundane thing interesting with the way he presents it

Sort of the complete opposite of Kishimoto


----------



## The World (Apr 18, 2013)

I get the feeling Kishimoto stole your girl Aldric


----------



## Aldric (Apr 18, 2013)

Haha is funny joke bro


----------



## p-lou (Apr 18, 2013)

nah.         .


----------



## The World (Apr 18, 2013)

Are you Borat now? I thought you were French

nope


----------



## Aldric (Apr 18, 2013)

No but seriously I can't be mad at Kishimoto for stealing my girl since we agreed from the start to share your mom

OH SNAP


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 18, 2013)

The World said:


> I get the feeling Kishimoto stole your girl Aldric



this or he's been spending too much time at apforums, alot of the posters there get a boner off hating on kishi.


----------



## Shrike (Apr 18, 2013)

This Aldric guy thinks he's funny.


----------



## The World (Apr 18, 2013)

Aldric said:


> No but seriously I can't be mad at Kishimoto for stealing my girl since we agreed from the start to share your mom
> 
> OH SNAP



My mom is a 50+ year old whore, go right ahead

But don't think for a second that I'm calling you daddy


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 18, 2013)

Well regardless of how bad Aldric is at jokes, the main point that he's driving at is correct. Kishimoto's writing is garbage.


----------



## The World (Apr 18, 2013)

His character development is garbage

His writing is spotty at best, but not terrible

That goes to Kubo or Mashima or Oh Great or Oku etc etc


----------



## Aldric (Apr 18, 2013)

Spike_Shrike said:


> This Aldric guy thinks he's funny.



You dont think Im funny bro?


----------



## The World (Apr 18, 2013)

Life just ain't worth living now


----------



## Shrike (Apr 18, 2013)

Aldric said:


> You dont think Im funny bro?



Nah, you're okay bro <3


----------



## Inuhanyou (Apr 18, 2013)

The World said:


> His character development is garbage
> 
> His writing is spotty at best, but not terrible
> 
> That goes to Kubo or Mashima or Oh Great or Oku etc etc



Not terrible? We just spent 5 chapters in a meaningless flashback only for the prodigy villain to suddenly become good at a moment's notice thereby eliminating the entire point of more than half of the previous chapters 

I will say that Oh great is on another level from the others in regards to overall story(as in a level below, when you can actually even tell what the fuck is going on to begin with).



> This NOT which one is your favorite series. I want your honest, unbiased opinions on which mangaka is the *best in terms of writing a story, based on story plotting, foreshadowing, character development/design*, etc, etc. Who do you think does it the best?
> 
> This implied to me that we were adding up everything together, not just in terms of overall story developments.
> 
> ...


----------



## Alita (Apr 18, 2013)

Asa-Kun said:


> Oda = Ohba > Arakawa > Kishi >= Morikawa > Toriyama > Watsuki >  *Shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kubo. *



I definately agree with the bolded.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 18, 2013)

I also agree with the bolded.


----------



## p-lou (Apr 18, 2013)

mon ami Aldrich-koon is funny

funny lookin

rimshot


----------



## Jungle (Apr 25, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Oh yeah in terms of writing I think he's the best
> 
> He strikes me as an extremely intelligent man who has the talent and ability to make the most mundane thing interesting with the way he presents it
> 
> Sort of the complete opposite of Kishimoto





 I do prefer Togashi's writing out of the big three, but I'd still say I prefer Oda writing than both Kubo's and Kishimoto.




Narutossss said:


> this or he's been spending too much time at apforums, alot of the posters there get a boner off hating on kishi.



Didn't you request a ban() why do you still go on and on about  arlong park.


----------



## Narutossss (Apr 25, 2013)

I know you're a troll but I'll take the bait gladly now show me at _least_ three of my posts where I've gone "on and on" about that forum


----------



## Jungle (Apr 25, 2013)

How am I a troll?

Forgive me it wasn't you who originally mentioned apforums, it was syntax.



Unlike you, I know when to admit I was wrong.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 25, 2013)

This should be done when Mario comes out.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 25, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> This should be done when Mario comes out.



Come again?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Apr 25, 2013)

The World said:


> I get the feeling Kishimoto stole your girl Aldric



That was pretty desperate.


----------



## Minato Namikaze. (Apr 25, 2013)

Goda 
10char


----------



## The World (Apr 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That was pretty desperate.



You have no context

Get out


----------



## Aldric (Apr 25, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> This should be done when Mario comes out.



Spoilers: Mario will be shit

Like his godawful baseball one shot

TRIANGULAR NOSE SENPAI :swoon:


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 25, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Spoilers: Mario will be shit
> 
> Like his godawful baseball one shot
> 
> TRIANGULAR NOSE SENPAI :swoon:



A preview is already out, and it's awesome so far.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Apr 25, 2013)

The World said:


> You have no context
> 
> Get out



I have enough.

At least you didn't go for a mom joke. So it could've been worse.


----------



## Cromer (Apr 25, 2013)

Posting before inevitable lock.



Since we are talking story-wise and not overall, then I don't see how it isn't clear that Oda is superior.


----------



## CandyCocaine (Apr 26, 2013)

the notion that even a pretty good one shot can make up for years of fuckery is silly.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 26, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> A preview is already out, and it's awesome so far.



Aren't you the guy who thought most of Naruto part 2 was good


----------



## Mikon (Apr 26, 2013)

Oda is the best.
Why the fuck Bleach is taking the 2nd place? Wtf is wrong with people here o-o


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 27, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Aren't you the guy who thought most of Naruto part 2 was good



I never did say it was good. 

But, aren't you he guy that agreed with Gantz being called badass?


----------



## Shiny (Apr 27, 2013)

Mikon said:


> Oda is the best.
> Why the fuck Bleach is taking the 2nd place? Wtf is wrong with people here o-o




Nothing wrong,its commom sense bleach>>>naruto


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 27, 2013)

ShinyMarch said:


> Nothing wrong,its commom sense bleach>>>naruto



Naruto Pilot Oneshot>>>>Bleach


----------



## JoJo (Apr 27, 2013)

Who really cares about the other manga?

The important thing is that OP is the best.


----------



## Shrike (Apr 27, 2013)

ShinyMarch said:


> Nothing wrong,its commom sense bleach>>>naruto



Ugh. I might hate Naruto, but to think that someone can mention common sense and Tite Kubo's fart in the same sentence is just fucking wrong for the common senses everywhere.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 27, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I never did say it was good.
> 
> But, aren't you he guy that agreed with Gantz being called badass?



Aren't you the guy who can't recognize satire when it's sitting on his face


----------



## synthax (Apr 27, 2013)

One Piece has been stale since the timskip only their deluded fans actually think it is quality,I guess a bombardment of text and pointless kids running around like in PH is exciting for them.


----------



## Magician (Apr 27, 2013)

synthax said:


> One Piece has been stale since the timskip only their deluded fans actually think it is quality,I guess a bombardment of text and pointless kids running around like in PH is exciting for them.



I see why you're in the red.


----------



## Jungle (Apr 27, 2013)

synthax said:


> One Piece has been stale since the timskip only their deluded fans actually think it is quality,I guess a bombardment of text and pointless kids running around like in PH is exciting for them.



Some examples would be nice please?


----------



## synthax (Apr 27, 2013)

jungle said:


> Some examples would be nice please?



Example of kids running around in PH , just read the arc,Oda spent  a lot of chapters of them running around in the factory. Oda has been dragging this story since the timeskip but his worshipers as usual too busy kissing ass.


----------



## Black Mirror (Apr 27, 2013)

synthax said:


> One Piece has been stale since the timskip only their deluded fans actually think it is quality,I guess a bombardment of text and pointless kids running around like in PH is exciting for them.



And this post belongs in this thread because...?



synthax said:


> Example of kids running around in PH , just read the arc,Oda spent  a lot of chapters of them running around in the factory. Oda has been dragging this story since the timeskip but his worshipers as usual too busy kissing ass.



Since the whole arc was full of kids running around and nothing else happened, One Piece is a shitty manga now and worse than Naruto and Bleach?

You know, you could just say that you're very lonely and in need of some attention.


----------



## Razzzz (Apr 27, 2013)

One Piece is entertaining for most part, Naruto is boring and stupid with occasional bouts of promising story developments that end up never paying off, and Bleach has more merit as toilet paper to wipe my ass with.


----------



## synthax (Apr 27, 2013)

Black Mirror said:


> And this post belongs in this thread because...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool story dweeb,wonder who is looking for attention since you had the need to question me ,so bitter that i mentioned one piece,keep your tail between your legs  and continue running.


----------



## Imagine (Apr 27, 2013)

synthax said:


> Cool story dweeb,wonder who is looking for attention since you had the need to question me ,so bitter that i mentioned one piece,keep your tail between your legs  and continue running.


Damn, nobody mess with this dude or you'll get it.


----------



## Black Mirror (Apr 28, 2013)

synthax said:


> Cool story dweeb,wonder who is looking for attention since you had the need to question me ,so bitter that i mentioned one piece,keep your tail between your legs  and continue running.



I shall never anger you again, mr badass 



Imagine said:


> Damn, nobody mess with this dude or you'll get it.



how very true


----------



## ZeroWolf123 (Apr 28, 2013)

Eiichiro Oda ofcourse. 

I guess Kishi would be next.

And bleach.... ...... Does it even have a story?


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 28, 2013)

Mario>>HST.


----------



## Dellinger (Apr 28, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Mario>>HST.



Oh God,you're annoying many people with this shit.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 28, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Oh God,you're annoying many people with this shit.



The only people who find it annoying are those who feel threatened by it being better than their favorite series.


----------



## Dellinger (Apr 28, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> The only people who find it annoying are those who feel threatened by it being better than their favorite series.



First of,Kishi will never write something better than Oda.

Second.You saw some pages,you don't even know what the story is about and you come here posting about Mario which is something that has nothing to do with the thread.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Apr 28, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> First of,Kishi will never write something better than Oda.


Last time I checked Part 1 Naruto>>>>Part 1 One Piece.



> Second.You saw some pages,you don't even know what the story is about and you come here posting about Mario which is something that has nothing to do with the thread.



I read the oneshot. 

This thread is about who can write the best out of the HST mangaka. It doesn't rule out their other work.


----------



## The World (Apr 28, 2013)

You will never get White Hawk to hop off Oda's nuts, don't even bother


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 28, 2013)

yes, rescue saske-kun was biutifully written

the anger

the pain


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Apr 28, 2013)

Until Kishimoto or Kubo start making readable mangas again, this poll is a joke. One Piece should be compared to stuff like FMA, Toriko and Kenichi, not to garbage. 

Your poll would make more sense if it had Fairy Tail instead of One Piece. At least it would be a competition between 3 shitty mangas.


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 28, 2013)

Dragon D Luffy said:


> Until Kishimoto or Kubo start making readable mangas again, this poll is a joke. One Piece should be compared to stuff like FMA, Toriko and Kenichi, not to garbage.
> 
> Your poll would make more sense if it had Fairy Tail instead of One Piece. At least it would be a competition between 3 shitty mangas.



FMA, no. Toriko, probably. 

Kenichi? I heard that was crap.


----------



## Byrd (Apr 28, 2013)

As was stated One Piece has the best Part One arcs in the HST. Naruto was decent throughout pre-skip but One Piece has better arcs pre-skip

and Mario isn't all you are hyping it up to be... its alright.. not ground-breaking...

Nothing is touching Water 7, Skypeia, SA arcs in the HST


----------



## Jungle (Apr 29, 2013)

synthax said:


> Example of kids running around in PH , just read the arc,Oda spent  a lot of chapters of them running around in the factory. Oda has been dragging this story since the timeskip but his worshipers as usual too busy kissing ass.



Too lazy, show me some examples please.


I mean, I at this point do disagree with you, but  still it's like you're implying Naruto hasn't been dragging out.

I'm pretty sure most of the members here are all Kishimoto worshippers.


----------



## The World (Apr 29, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> As was stated One Piece has the best Part One arcs in the HST. Naruto was decent throughout pre-skip but One Piece has better arcs pre-skip
> 
> and Mario isn't all you are hyping it up to be... its alright.. not ground-breaking...
> 
> Nothing is touching Water 7, Skypeia, SA arcs in the HST


----------



## Powerful Lord (Apr 29, 2013)

jungle said:


> Too lazy, show me some examples please.
> 
> 
> I mean, I at this point do disagree with you, but  still it's like you're implying Naruto hasn't been dragging out.
> ...



Nope, most i see here hate him with a passion


----------



## Jungle (May 1, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> Nope, most i see here hate him with a passion




So most of narutoforums hate naruto..?

Interesting.


----------



## Powerful Lord (May 1, 2013)

jungle said:


> So most of narutoforums hate naruto..?
> 
> Interesting.



Yeah, many are here for the other animes and mangas discussion.



jungle said:


> Too lazy, show me some examples please.



Why should he show you examples when tha happened over entire chapters? You're too lazy to speed read the chapters and check for yourself yet he has to go and also take the images? He's absolutelly right Punk Hazard was too slow and spent too much time with crackbabies on the run.


----------



## Hakan Erkan (May 1, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Last time I checked Part 1 Naruto>>>>Part 1 One Piece.
> 
> .



Lol since when?

Speak for yourself.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (May 1, 2013)

Hakan Erkan said:


> Lol since when?
> 
> Speak for yourself.



You have no say in this peasant.


----------



## Jungle (May 1, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Last time I checked Part 1 Naruto>>>>Part 1 One Piece.
> 
> 
> .



So you're saying that the part 1 Naruto before the timeskip is better than One Piece all the way up to the end of the Whitebeard War?


lol



Powerful Lord said:


> Why should he show you examples when tha happened over entire chapters? You're too lazy to speed read the chapters and check for yourself yet he has to go and also take the images?




Yes.

Also I do think that the Punk Hazard was a bit dull.

But just because it doesn't have "action!" doesn't mean it was a terrible arc.




Bruce Wayne said:


> You have no say in this peasant.


Aren't you that guy running around and proclaiming "Mario" is the "best manga ever! :amazed".


----------



## Renegade Knight (May 1, 2013)

:lolpopcorn.gif


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (May 1, 2013)

Part 1 Naruto is great, but Part 1 One Piece is miles ahead.


----------



## Snowless (May 1, 2013)

I don't understand how people think Bleach has better character development than One Piece.

Yeah, because Chad and Orihime have been developed so well.
Ichigo hasn't even been, in my opinion. He used to be a good character. In Hueco Mundo, I lost interest, after he started spouting his stereotypical shonen speeches. He's neglected the majority of his characters, as well. 

And don't forget Usopp in Water 7 and Robin in Enies Lobby. But while he does give them development, Oda also does keep his characters kind of consistent, and maybe some people would like a little more progression, but at least that keeps them true, and they won't lose sight of their original personality like Ichigo and especially Naruto. Luffy is true to who he is, and he's just callous enough to all of the right things to be a perfect pirate, while not being an asshole and caring about his nakama. And he did get development in the post Marineford arc, so it's not nonexistent, it just doesn't change who the characters are, on the most inherent level.
Oda is also very good at developing via backstories. Better than the other two. Skypeia's backstory was tragic, and really had a lot of emotion.

And Kubo does just seem to make things up along the way, like Gin's true motives. I don't suppose that explains why he tortured Rukia back in SS just for the hell of it.

Also, he doesn't have much foreshadowing. Fullbring, Quincies; they kind of came out of nowhere.
One Piece has very clear foreshadowing, as he thinks things out in advance. He foreshadowed Fishman Island in Arlong Park. Meaning, he knew what the hell he wanted to do with the series. And at this point, in the manga, it's pretty clear he knows how he wants everything to coalesce, it's just a matter of making it all happen. I also saw a picture in the One Piece section where he had a book/script for the Wano arc. He just plans everything better, and is therefore betting at bringing things together for an overarching story. Its non linear storyline and subplots that all tie in to each other make it the most well done, in my opinion.


Another gripe about Bleach is how he off panels a lot of his fights, after hyping them, just to keep suspense about a character's abilities. A lot of what he does is just hype things up, and then not deliver, and make it feel cool, so people want to keep reading it.

As for art, I do like Bleach's. It's not bad. It's just stylized. One Piece's is, too, in a different way. Neither draws poorly.


And I actually think Naruto's world had the most potential for worldbuilding, because he could create diverse places, while having a tangible map of things, so it has a coherent feel to it, and not just random islands like One Piece. But he failed on that, and those random island are usually interesting, so One Piece wins, here. Bleach's world bores me.


So, in conclusion, One Piece just has the most planning and therefore coherent storyline without any retcons. The ONLY one I can think of is how Crocus said Brook's crew abandoned the Grand Line. But, maybe that can be explained by a lack of authority on the subject on Crocus' part. Either way, its usually very coherent and its the details that make it, like Buggy's picture in the newspaper when the elder from Amazon Lily is reading to, to subtly explain he got captured in Impel Down, or a few others you can find just by reading the SBS.

My vote goes to Oda.


----------



## Jungle (May 1, 2013)

Dragon D Luffy said:


> Part 1 Naruto is great, but Part 1 One Piece is miles ahead.


Naruto Part 1 is "okay", but One Piece Part 1 is much better,  who would argue that One Piece after the Whitebeard War is not as good as Naruto going to train with Jiraiya.

Really?


----------



## Powerful Lord (May 1, 2013)

Snowless said:


> I don't understand how people think Bleach has better character development than One Piece.
> 
> Yeah, because Chad and Orihime have been developed so well.
> Ichigo hasn't even been, in my opinion. He used to be a good character. In Hueco Mundo, I lost interest, after he started spouting his stereotypical shonen speeches. He's neglected the majority of his characters, as well.
> ...



Didn't Kubo say he had this new arc planed since the begining of Arrancar war? Either way i agree with you. However there another inconsistency of One piece is how in the first chapter Shanks said that Luffy couldn't be a pirate anymore because he ate a devil fruit, yet now every big league pirate ate one. Another is the Kuro flashback making the pirate life looking like a real hell, even in East Blue, yet we haven't seen something that bad, even in the Grand Line.

Oda's characters going back to life after certain death also takes some points out of One Piece. The inconsistency of strength also leaves something to be desired, the girl Zoro fighted in his childhood die of a weight falling in her head, yet East Blue shows many things worse than that happening to more human characters and they are never hurt that much. This makes pain and certain real world damage only matter when plot needs it too.


----------



## Snowless (May 1, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> Didn't Kubo say he had this new arc planed since the begining of Arrancar war? Either way i agree with you. However there another inconsistency of One piece is how in the first chapter Shanks said that Luffy couldn't be a pirate anymore because he ate a devil fruit, yet now every big league pirate ate one. Another is the Kuro flashback making the pirate life looking like a real hell, even in East Blue, yet we haven't seen something that bad, even in the Grand Line.
> 
> Oda's characters going back to life after certain death also takes some points out of One Piece. The inconsistency of strength also leaves something to be desired, the girl Zoro fighted in his childhood die of a weight falling in her head, yet East Blue shows many things worse than that happening to more human characters and they are never hurt that much. This makes pain and certain real world damage only matter when plot needs it too.



I don't follow Bleach as closely, so if he did, I don't know. There wasn't any indication of it beforehand, though.

And as for Shanks saying that, I don't think it's a big deal. Shanks hasn't eaten, and most likely no one in his crew has, so that's just his philosophy. I highly doubt Oda introduced the concept of devil fruits without the intention of making most of the strong pirates have them.

I also don't remember Kuro's flashback well, and a quick Youtube search was pretty fruitless. But it's just about being hunted by the marines, right? The Strawhats have had plenty of tough times are pirates, due to the marines. And they're stronger than Kuro, so they should be able to deal with routine threats better.

A lot of the characters that he could have killed came back to help to storyline, like Mr. 3 or Crocodile, so I don't mind, as long as it's for the good of the overall narrative. He's capable of killing characters, like with Ace or Whitebeard, but he doesn't feel the need to unless it has a specific purpose, because it's a shonen. He doesn't put up a pretense of a constant dark mood, though. So, I'm kind of fine with it, honestly. 
Yes, Pell should have died. But I honestly really, really like him, so I don't mind that either, xD.

Yes, there is a inconsistency, especially with Kuina dying from stairs. But maybe Oda didn't want anything too tragic to stay away from a stereotypical past. It's a flaw, I won't argue, but generally, One Piece has more consistant power levels then the other two. People cite Crocodile at Marineford as an exception, too. But, generally, it feels realistic in progression of abilities and power levels and there haven't been any asspull power ups. It's not like Naruto or Bleach, where the people who were ungodly strong at the beginning of the series are weak compared to attacks in the series now.
For a large part, Luffy cruised through East Blue with only moderate difficulty and you could tell he was strong and wasn't almost dying in every fight, and when they introduced someone like Mihawk and showcased his abilities, it's not like how he was then is weak compared to how he is now. It's consistent, in the sense. I'm thinking of Hiruzen in Naruto here, where he was hyped so much and was supposed to be so strong, but is pathetic compared to now. That happens in Bleach a lot, too.


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## Dellinger (May 1, 2013)

Shanks never said to Luffy that he can't be a pirate because he ate a devil fruit.He just said that he can't swim anymore.


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## SternRitter (May 1, 2013)

Snowless said:


> I don't understand how people think Bleach has better character development than One Piece.
> 
> Yeah, because Chad and Orihime have been developed so well.
> Ichigo hasn't even been, in my opinion. He used to be a good character. In Hueco Mundo, I lost interest, after he started spouting his stereotypical shonen speeches. He's neglected the majority of his characters, as well.
> ...





Oda pulled the 0th corporal squad out of his ass. After saying they only go from 1-8 with 9 being the secret one. Now 0 is the super secret one.

But obviously it gets pushed under the rug because Oda can do no wrong.


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## Stannis (May 1, 2013)

Who said Cipher Pol goes from 1 to 9


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## Snowless (May 1, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> Oda pulled the 0th corporal squad out of his ass. After saying they only go from 1-8 with 9 being the secret one. Now 0 is the super secret one.
> 
> But obviously it gets pushed under the rug because Oda can do no wrong.



Oda has shown an astounding level of consistency and you can find numerous examples of proof that he thinks things out beforehand and plans all of his arcs out.
Therefore, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, until we see how they tie into the arc as a whole.
I don't think it was an asspull.
Once someone has proven themself at being consistent with something, it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Edit: Although, we have clear proof that he has scripts already written for future arcs. So, I don't see how you can call that an asspull.

And also I just remembered, Doflamingo was having a secret conversation with someone from the World Government pre time skip, and it looks like it was one of the guys from CP0.




The guy is around the same height and wearing a bowler hat in both images (the guy in the middle in the second panel). The situations are even analogous. 

I went back to thread about it to copy and paste the pictures, and Renegade Knight was the one who found the connection, just to give credit.


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## Jungle (May 1, 2013)

Any  reasons or supporting details on why "Mario :amazed" is so much better than any other manga?


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## The Doctor (May 1, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> Oda's characters going back to life after certain death also takes some points out of One Piece.


Namely, Pell, Bonclay and that Skypie dude. Yeah, it would've been better if they were dead.


Powerful Lord said:


> The inconsistency of strength also leaves something to be desired, the girl Zoro fighted in his childhood die of a weight falling in her head, yet East Blue shows many things worse than that happening to more human characters and they are never hurt that much. *This makes pain and certain real world damage only matter when plot needs it too.*


Obviously. Like in 99% of fiction. What's your point?

This is not an inconsistency. Kuina died because it was necessary for her to die. The whole flashback was kinda shitty because Oda wasn't experienced back then. Wanna complain about something? a half chapter flashback that ended with her suddenly dying because of a stair. that sucked.


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## Snowless (May 1, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> Namely, Pell, Bonclay and that Skypie dude. Yeah, it would've been better if they were dead.



Bon Clay came back into the plot in a pretty significant way.
I think it's fine he didn't die.
Being imprisoned in Impel Down makes sense, too. And he had to sacrifice himself and stay in that hellhole, too.


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## Jungle (May 2, 2013)

One Piece Chapter 332(Usopp development)
One Piece Chapter 333(Usopp development)
One Piece Chapter 391(Robin development)
One Piece Chapter 392 (Robin development)


All the way up to Chapter 396 should be Robin's character development, Water 7/ Enies Lobby WAS character development correct?


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## Tray (May 2, 2013)

Disu shitto is still going on?


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## The Doctor (May 2, 2013)

Snowless said:


> Bon Clay came back into the plot in a pretty significant way.
> I think it's fine he didn't die.
> Being imprisoned in Impel Down makes sense, too. And he had to sacrifice himself and stay in that hellhole, too.


i was talking about impel down.

it was just like pell: in order to keep everybody safe and sound, both pell and bonclay "sacrificed" themselves and both survived from certain death.


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## The World (May 2, 2013)

Snowless said:


> For a large part, Luffy cruised through East Blue with only moderate difficulty and you could tell he was strong and wasn't almost dying in every fight, and when they introduced someone like Mihawk and showcased his abilities, it's not like how he was then is weak compared to how he is now. It's consistent, in the sense. I'm thinking of Hiruzen in Naruto here, where he was hyped so much and was supposed to be so strong, but is pathetic compared to now. That happens in Bleach a lot, too.



We haven't even seen shit from Hiruzen coming back yet. 

And he's always hyped about in his prime.

Which he's like never shown in.


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## Ryuksgelus (May 2, 2013)

He was still much less impressive than any other Kage level Ninja that came after him including the other Kage's. Age became less of an excuse when an older Kage showed up with more broken moveset and illogical endurance.


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## Stannis (May 2, 2013)

Urek said:


> Disu shitto is still going on?



Disu shitto will never die.


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## Snowless (May 2, 2013)

Ryuksgelus said:


> He was still much less impressive than any other Kage level Ninja that came after him including the other Kage's. Age became less of an excuse when an older Kage showed up with more broken moveset and illogical endurance.



Exactly, things that are happening now were unfathomable early on in the manga. Kakashi was supposed to be really strong and impressive, but was bedridden for a week after using the Sharingan against Zabuza. 



The Doctor said:


> i was talking about impel down.
> 
> it was just like pell: in order to keep everybody safe and sound, both pell and bonclay "sacrificed" themselves and both survived from certain death.



And that's fair. But Bon Clay's sacrifice is still a sacrifice, as he's stuck in Impel Down.


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## Alita (May 2, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> As was stated One Piece has the best Part One arcs in the HST. Naruto was decent throughout pre-skip but One Piece has better arcs pre-skip
> 
> and Mario isn't all you are hyping it up to be... its alright.. not ground-breaking...
> 
> Nothing is touching Water 7, Skypeia, SA arcs in the HST


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## leokiko (May 2, 2013)

I think OP is better, but I still enjoy Naruto/Bleach.


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## Powerful Lord (May 2, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> Namely, Pell, Bonclay and that Skypie dude. Yeah, it would've been better if they were dead.


Don't remember when Bonclay should have died



> Obviously. Like in 99% of fiction. What's your point?
> 
> This is not an inconsistency. Kuina died because it was necessary for her to die. The whole flashback was kinda shitty because Oda wasn't experienced back then. Wanna complain about something? a half chapter flashback that ended with her suddenly dying because of a stair. that sucked.



No, it's something that happens mostly in manga, be it for comic relief or to show a character being badas, you don't see Harry Potter's head breaking a wall and then rise with barelly any damage, in movies at most you see them surviving explosions, and when things like that happen there almost everybody complains.

In One Piece exagerated feats are almost a norm, i don't deny the power levels being under control but i just think Oda sometimes exagerates physical feats, if i remember correctly in East Blue the characters caused even more destruction than in some of the new arcs.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 2, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> *Don't remember when Bonclay should have died
> *
> 
> 
> ...



When a Pissed off Magellan attacked him.


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## Jungle (May 2, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> Don't remember when Bonclay should have died


Do you even read One Piece?

One Piece Chapter 548.

I do like One Piece out of Naruto and Bleach but still..


*Spoiler*: __ 












^^^Chapter 554

Now you see he's alive:


Chapter 666





Though Oda doesn't kill his characters much. /:


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## Stannis (May 2, 2013)

Do you even spoiler tag?


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## Jungle (May 2, 2013)

Boshi said:


> Do you even spoiler tag?



No, I do not spoiler tag.


Will get to that now, sorry about that.


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## B Rabbit (May 2, 2013)

This threads still going?


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## Jungle (May 2, 2013)

Sadly yes, I am sorry I contributed to it.

Edit : Why am I arguing with the guy who said BLEACH has character development.

BLEACH of all things.


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## The Doctor (May 2, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> No, it's something that happens mostly in manga, be it for comic relief or to show a character being badas, you don't see Harry Potter's head breaking a wall and then rise with barelly any damage, in movies at most you see them surviving explosions, and when things like that happen there almost everybody complains.


You see similar stuff, like crashing a car in tree that kept mauling said car, receiving small wounds. God, take a look at James Bond movies. 


Powerful Lord said:


> In One Piece exagerated feats are almost a norm, i don't deny the power levels being under control but i just think Oda sometimes exagerates physical feats, if i remember correctly in East Blue the characters caused even more destruction than in some of the new arcs.


You're basically nitpicking on a point exercised throughout the entire manga. Oda exagerates everything, it's his style, reflected in both writing and drawing. You're free to hate it or love it, but that's definitelly not an inconsistency.


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## Powerful Lord (May 3, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> You see similar stuff, like crashing a car in tree that kept mauling said car, receiving small wounds. God, take a look at James Bond movies.


I know, but it's nowhere near the lever o OP and James Bond was unconscious by the end of that.



> You're basically nitpicking on a point exercised throughout the entire manga. Oda exagerates everything, it's his style, reflected in both writing and drawing. You're free to hate it or love it, but that's definitelly not an inconsistency.



I know it's his style but you just can't make somebody dieing for falling some stairs and then show other weak characters surviving falls from big heights and breaking rocks when they fall with their heads. I like Oda's style and exageration, but i just think he's sometimes too inconsistent, which is why i can't be as amazed with some of the "big feats"


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## Black Mirror (May 3, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> I know, but it's nowhere near the lever o OP and James Bond was unconscious by the end of that.
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's his style but you just can't make somebody *dieing for falling some stairs* and then show other weak characters surviving falls from big heights and breaking rocks when they fall with their heads. I like Oda's style and exageration, but i just think he's sometimes too inconsistent, which is why i can't be as amazed with some of the "big feats"



I wonder if that's really what happened  Maybe her father didn't want Zoro to seek revenge like *cough* Sasuke *cough*.


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## Dellinger (May 3, 2013)

Kuina was a kid.The fuck is this.


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## Magician (May 3, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Kuina was a kid.The fuck is this.



That's what I'm saying. She was like 10 years old. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Also their may be more to Kuina's death than meets the eye.


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## Jungle (May 3, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> Oda pulled the 0th corporal squad out of his ass. After saying they only go from 1-8 with 9 being the secret one. Now 0 is the super secret one.
> 
> But obviously it gets pushed under the rug because Oda can do no wrong.



Obito got crushed by a rock and was said to have died, but now he's alive because Madara saved him!



Itachi happen to be a good guy all along!


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## Sphyer (May 3, 2013)

jungle said:


> Sadly yes, I am sorry I contributed to it.
> 
> Edit : Why am I arguing with the guy who said BLEACH has character development.
> 
> BLEACH of all things.



Ah yes, the generic lol Bleach comments 

Bleach does have character development. Quite a bunch actually.

You were either sleeping while reading or you didn't pay enough attention. Only reason I can think off for you to say something so nonsensical.


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## Powerful Lord (May 3, 2013)

jungle said:


> Obito got crushed by a rock and was said to have died, but now he's alive because Madara saved him!
> 
> 
> 
> *Itachi happen to be a good guy all along*!



I still don't how that was a big surprise, Itachi never seemed to me like an evil guy, it allways looked like he had more going on around him than it seemed, and i think it was quite obvious. The problem was the execution of making him a trully good guy instead of letting him stay in a grey area.


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## Jungle (May 3, 2013)

Sphyer said:


> Ah yes, the generic lol Bleach comments
> 
> Bleach does have character development. Quite a bunch actually.
> 
> You were either sleeping while reading or you didn't pay enough attention. Only reason I can think off for you to say something so nonsensical.



I was drunk when I typied dat.


Bleacha iz sa mach bettah den  huntah ex huntah, and NARUTO IS DA GREATASY MANGA EVAH.


omg y u gave me negative intah net points


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## Jungle (May 3, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> I still don't how that was a big surprise, Itachi never seemed to me like an evil guy, it allways looked like he had more going on around him than it seemed, and i think it was quite obvious. The problem was the execution of making him a trully good guy instead of letting him stay in a grey area.



yah i know, i was just drunk typed dat.


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## Jungle (May 3, 2013)

Sphyer said:


> Ah yes, the generic lol Bleach comments
> 
> Bleach does have character development. Quite a bunch actually.
> 
> You were either sleeping while reading or you didn't pay enough attention. Only reason I can think off for you to say something so nonsensical.



Crap nonsensical comment,  Bleach characters do not change whatsoever. Kubo is lazy and doesn't even draw his backgrounds and leaves them white. Naruto's drawing is "okay" but it's story is so much worse than even Bleach's in my honest opinion that it's drawing cannot save it, the story has been focusing on the bland character Sasuke for maybe years. It goes NOWHERE, and the anime??




Maybe  One Piece isn't the greatest manga, but it's definitely better than Bleach and Naruto STORY.


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## Akatora (May 3, 2013)

It's fair to have an opinion, just think about how you word it especially as a new guy.

The structure of OP's storyline is more stright forward than the other 2 so it's a given it easier to follow.

Personally I dropped OP after giving up on it around the Lucci fight. Robin's flashback was pretty much the last straw for me.

@Jungle do everyone a favor and focus on what you consider better at one series than another rather than focus on the negatives which lead to flame bait.


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## Jungle (May 3, 2013)

Akatora said:


> It's fair to have an opinion, just think about how you word it especially as a new guy.
> 
> The structure of OP's storyline is more stright forward than the other 2 so it's a given it easier to follow.
> 
> ...



Actually coming from the point you left off, I can see why you dropped it maybe, it's pacing back then was rather dull.

If I'm not mistaken it was One Piece's longest arc.


Anyways taking your advice from the positives, I did like Impel Down even more than then Whitebeard War(-shield-), Bon Kurei sacrifice was magnificent. Strangely enough, I liked the fact that the warden wasn't defeated, it was a bit long arc so I  got to know the character better and I didn't expect oda to kill a character(I'm ignoring the fact the he in fact did live, that's a nitpick)..

The Whitebeard War was cool  as well, but I honestly favor the Impel Down arc, I just really liked it.


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## Akatora (May 3, 2013)

Could be, but my conclusion was that One PIece was an ok manga, but I didn't feel like a targeted reader.
I never really had the spark for the series, bt gave it a shot none the less, had 3 great laughs and some minor, unfortunately not enough to keep me reading.

Stick with your opinion and allow others to form theirs is the best way to handle it imo


anyway hopefully this thread will give space for others and be forgotten.


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## Dellinger (May 3, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> Don't remember when Bonclay should have died
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Luffy was sending Caesar flying through a range of ice mountains and he was destroying the huge surroundings of the plaza in FI.
They don't have such feats in East Blue.


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## SternRitter (May 3, 2013)

jungle said:


> Obito got crushed by a rock and was said to have died, but now he's alive because Madara saved him!
> 
> 
> 
> Itachi happen to be a good guy all along!



And your point is? When did I mention anything about Naruto? Oh that's right, I never....
All of the HST have their own asspulls. 0th cipher pol is one of OP's, but of course the great Oda can do no wrong so let's just write poor factors from Naruto and Bleach to cover it up.


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## The World (May 3, 2013)

jungle said:


> Obito got crushed by a rock and was said to have died, but now he's alive because Madara saved him!
> 
> 
> 
> Itachi happen to be a good guy all along!



Good job making yourself look like a fool, if you didn't see that coming

You think Kakashi would get his own arc?

Itachi, mah god

Dense as fuck


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## The World (May 3, 2013)

People calling Kishi a simple fuck

Yet couldn't even see a simple plot twist from a mile away

lel


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## Stannis (May 3, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> And your point is? When did I mention anything about Naruto? Oh that's right, I never....
> All of the HST have their own asspulls. 0th cipher pol is one of OP's, but of course the great Oda can do no wrong so let's just write poor factors from Naruto and Bleach to cover it up.



Oh the great Oda


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## The Doctor (May 3, 2013)

Powerful Lord said:


> I know, but it's nowhere near the lever o OP and James Bond was unconscious by the end of that.


I was talking about harry potter, book 2. Both Harry and Ron were fine and dandy after crashing the car.


Powerful Lord said:


> I know it's his style but you just can't make somebody dieing for falling some stairs and then show other weak characters surviving falls from big heights and breaking rocks when they fall with their heads. I like Oda's style and exageration, but i just think he's sometimes too inconsistent, which is why i can't be as amazed with some of the "big feats"


kuina was a 10yo girl who had more skills than most adults. still she wasn't nothing exceptional, i really don't know why you're insisting in this point. And which child was breaking rocks in EB?

even if i were to agree with you that she shouldn't have died because of a simple stair, it doesn't affect the plot or the power levels at all, since kuina was a stronger-than-your-average 10yo girl. this is the smallest of the small points.

there are so many other things that you could complain about OP...


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## Snowless (May 3, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> And your point is? When did I mention anything about Naruto? Oh that's right, I never....
> All of the HST have their own asspulls. 0th cipher pol is one of OP's, but of course the great Oda can do no wrong so let's just write poor factors from Naruto and Bleach to cover it up.





Snowless said:


> And also I just remembered, Doflamingo was having a secret conversation with someone from the World Government pre time skip, and it looks like it was one of the guys from CP0.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



CP0 was not an asspull.


----------



## p-lou (May 3, 2013)

getting hung up on a 7 page flashback in the first volume of a 60+ volume manga?

lol


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## SternRitter (May 4, 2013)

Snowless said:


> CP0 was not an asspull.



Just because Oda drew one of them ages ago doesn't mean he foreshadowed the 0th cipher pol, he could have made that guy anybody yet he decides to erase the old statements previously made earlier in the manga about cipher pol. It's awfull examples like this that means Oda could retcon anything he likes and everyone would accept it.

Hell, they're not exactly a secret since everyone somehow knows about them aswell, even Robin who was the one who told us all about cipher pol. 

I guess if that's what you claim as foreshadowing then I guess Yammy being the 0 espada was foreshadowed aswell since he had a Zero on his arm the whole time right?


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## 8 (May 4, 2013)

should it even matter whether cp0 was an asspull or not? if it fit well into the story it's fine by me either way.


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## Snowless (May 4, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> Just because Oda drew one of them ages ago doesn't mean he foreshadowed the 0th cipher pol, he could have made that guy anybody yet he decides to erase the old statements previously made earlier in the manga about cipher pol. It's awfull examples like this that means Oda could retcon anything he likes and everyone would accept it.
> 
> Hell, they're not exactly a secret since everyone somehow knows about them aswell, even Robin who was the one who told us all about cipher pol.
> 
> I guess if that's what you claim as foreshadowing then I guess Yammy being the 0 espada was foreshadowed aswell since he had a Zero on his arm the whole time right?




It was a high ranking guy from the world government and in their conversation was the idea of his stepping down as Shichibukai.
That conversation obviously meant something. Oda wouldn't talk about Doflamingo having a "deal" with someone in the world government if he hadn't thought out what it was.

And Robin spent her time training with the revolutionaries. Her entire character's premise is being knowledgeable on everything. That's not surprising.

This isn't a retcon, dude. 

CP9 isn't strong enough for the New World, anyway. So, they have another group that is.

There is no plot hole, here. No inconsistencies.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 4, 2013)

Is it really anything close to an asspull that was the Child of Prophecy bullshit? That had enormous repercussions on a very important theme in the manga and aspect of the main character, not to mention, it was a half-assed attempt to inject relevance into Naruto's character within his own story in the face of Sasuke and the Uchiha matter...seriously, not even Kubo has had to do something like that. That's pretty terrible.


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## Pyro (May 4, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> Just because Oda drew one of them ages ago doesn't mean he foreshadowed the 0th cipher pol, he could have made that guy anybody yet he decides to erase the old statements previously made earlier in the manga about cipher pol. It's awfull examples like this that means Oda could retcon anything he likes and everyone would accept it.
> 
> Hell, they're not exactly a secret since everyone somehow knows about them aswell, even Robin who was the one who told us all about cipher pol.
> 
> I guess if that's what you claim as foreshadowing then I guess Yammy being the 0 espada was foreshadowed aswell since he had a Zero on his arm the whole time right?



He didn't erase his previous statement. His previous statement was referring to the first half of the Grand Line. The New World is an entirely new place and is bound to have stronger versions of everything we've seen in paradise.


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## Bruce Wayne (May 4, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Is it really anything close to an asspull that was the Child of Prophecy bullshit? That had enormous repercussions on a very important theme in the manga and aspect of the main character, not to mention, it was a half-assed attempt to inject relevance into Naruto's character within his own story in the face of Sasuke and the Uchiha matter...seriously, *not even Kubo has had to do something like that.* That's pretty terrible.



Because Kubo doesn't have a story to begin with.


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## SternRitter (May 4, 2013)

Pyro said:


> He didn't erase his previous statement. His previous statement was referring to the first half of the Grand Line. The New World is an entirely new place and is bound to have stronger versions of everything we've seen in paradise.



Wait, so all of the rules and facts Oda has set throught the first half of OP can be changed on a whim because "They're in the new world"? What if he introduced the Secret-Admirals who are 10x stronger than the normal ones,  would that be ok because its the "new world"?


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## jNdee~ (May 4, 2013)

Implying Oda would do anything like that. Oda is not Kishi


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## Akatora (May 4, 2013)

^He isn't but he's just lucky to have a world where pretty much anything go.

Even if you had a backwalking Whale playing golf while smoking and jodling at the same time underwater, in OP it wouldn't feel out of place.


In a crazy random world another random character would be normal.


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## Black Mirror (May 4, 2013)

Akatora said:


> ^He isn't but he's just lucky to have a world where pretty much anything go.
> 
> *Even if you had a backwalking Whale playing golf while smoking and jodling at the same time underwater*, in OP it wouldn't feel out of place.
> 
> ...



One of Jimbe's relatives could be like this


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## The Doctor (May 4, 2013)

nitpicks, nitpicks everywhere

HURRDURRCP0WASASSPULL

seriously, go complain about something more interesting like how badly paced and boring the middle chunk of Punk Hazard was, Amazon Lilly fan-service arc or Fishmen Island that sucked major dongs, had one of the worst OP villain so far and had that god-awful SANJINOSEBLEED gag.


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## Snowless (May 5, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> Wait, so all of the rules and facts Oda has set throught the first half of OP can be changed on a whim because "They're in the new world"? What if he introduced the Secret-Admirals who are 10x stronger than the normal ones,  would that be ok because its the "new world"?



I seriously don't understand why introducing CP0 is such a big deal.
He'd clearly thought of them beforehand. He wouldn't have drawn such a specific scene if he didn't know what he wanted to do with it.

And how is he changing any facts or rules?


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## SternRitter (May 5, 2013)

Snowless said:


> I seriously don't understand why introducing CP0 is such a big deal.
> He'd clearly thought of them beforehand. He wouldn't have drawn such a specific scene if he didn't know what he wanted to do with it.
> 
> And how is he changing any facts or rules?



It isn't and I apologize if it looks that way. I'm just making a point towards how people are so critical towards Naruto and Bleach's questionable writing choices but OP always gets a free pass. 
I'm done anyway, its become a chore to continue on.


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## The World (May 5, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> nitpicks, nitpicks everywhere
> 
> HURRDURRCP0WASASSPULL
> 
> seriously, go complain about something more interesting like how badly paced and boring the middle chunk of Punk Hazard was, Amazon Lilly fan-service arc or Fishmen Island that sucked major dongs, had one of the worst OP villain so far and had that god-awful SANJINOSEBLEED gag.



You basically said all that needs to be said.


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## Snowless (May 5, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> It isn't and I apologize if it looks that way. I'm just making a point towards how people are so critical towards Naruto and Bleach's questionable writing choices but OP always gets a free pass.
> I'm done anyway, its become a chore to continue on.



Ah, maybe there's some truth to that. I just think he's set the bar higher and can also reach it more often than not.
But you're being cool about it, so I'll stop pestering, xD.


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## typhoon72 (May 5, 2013)

Its not that OP gets a free pass its that Oda has set up his universe well enough that anything seems possible. Because of that he has set up a very versatile setting which is a consequence of his superior storytelling ability. I'm not saying he doesn't fuck up now and again but he has layed a very solid foundation setting for his protagonists to overcome and for readers to be engaged.


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## p-lou (May 5, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> god-awful SANJINOSEBLEED gag.



one of my biggest complaints is how over time the straw hats have been relegated to their respective gags.  the worst offender obviously being sanji.

it can be very easy to forget there are actual characters behind them when all you regularly see are the gags.  there are several things that add to this (the series being so old, new characters being added to the main cast, the main cast being separated, etc), but it can still be quite frustrating.

when nami is just acting like a money grubbing bitch for 4 volumes it's easy to forget what shaped that mentality 50 volumes ago.


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## Jungle (May 5, 2013)

Boshi said:


> Oh the great Oda



This post was really constructive and contributed to this conversation and every way. :amazed

All your comments have been is, IS THIS STILL GOING ON, DO YOU SPOILER TAG, WHO SAID CIPHER POL GOES TO 1-9!!! I SAID GREAT! THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IN BLEACH IS GREAT SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST TOO STUPID TO SEE IT. Try to defend your argument at least.


Your comments in this thread have not contributed whatsoever to the conversation.


It's  sheer coincidence that this one doesn't either, but whatever I'm bored.




Nawn, I'm actually not caught up to Bleach so I can't really argue about it.


Anyone wanna argue about Naruto being apparently better than One Piece?


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## Pain In The Ass (May 5, 2013)

I think out of the three Oda. His story keeps me excited every chapter and eagerly waiting every week, that's all that matters. The second one would be Kishimoto, he's made many mistakes along the way but you can see he could build something greater had he focused more. Kubo is... well it's Kubo.


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## Jungle (May 5, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> nitpicks, nitpicks everywhere
> 
> HURRDURRCP0WASASSPULL
> 
> seriously, go complain about something more interesting like how badly paced and boring the middle chunk of Punk Hazard was, Amazon Lilly fan-service arc or Fishmen Island that sucked major dongs, had one of the worst OP villain so far and had that god-awful SANJINOSEBLEED gag.



Sangi's NOSEBLEED was annoying, I have absolutely no arguments with you on that.

But eh, so was Naruto making Pain/Nagato become good again just by talking to him. The whole zombie reviving mumble jumble was mostly just filler. This war isn't even anticipating, and Kishimoto seems to act as if we were suppose to be shocked that Tobi was not Madara, I sure wasn't. The fact that he was Obito was no surprise and renders all his build-up to be nothing.


But yeah, that whole nosebleed thing was INCREDIBLY annoying and the fact that a gag became a plot point, I.....just didn't like that.


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## B Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

If you really don't like One Piece, but all you have to complain about is Cp0 then you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 

Complain about the gags, complain about the pace, complain about the art. Idgaf it's not perfect, but if your wasting my time bitching about the CP0 for no reason, then you sure didn't have a good opinion in the first place. 

Stop wasting our time.


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## Pain In The Ass (May 5, 2013)

On a side note, Kubo having more votes than Kishi?  SL must have brought their forces to this thread.


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## Stannis (May 5, 2013)

jungle said:


> This post was really constructive and contributed to this conversation and every way. :amazed
> 
> All your comments have been is, IS THIS STILL GOING ON, DO YOU SPOILER TAG, WHO SAID CIPHER POL GOES TO 1-9!!! I SAID GREAT! THE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IN BLEACH IS GREAT SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST TOO STUPID TO SEE IT. Try to defend your argument at least.
> 
> ...



yeah.. shut up.


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## B Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

I don't like this jungle guy.


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## SternRitter (May 5, 2013)

Eminem said:


> If you really don't like One Piece, but all you have to complain about is Cp0 then you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
> 
> Complain about the gags, complain about the pace, complain about the art. Idgaf it's not perfect, but if your wasting my time bitching about the CP0 for no reason, then you sure didn't have a good opinion in the first place.
> 
> Stop wasting our time.



Guess this is aimed at me.. 

Never said I hated OP, I love reading it every week. I already said numerous times that I wasn't complaining about CP0's existence, but pointing out peoples double standards over each Mangakas questionable writing.

Complaining about people who complain is also time wasting.


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## Dellinger (May 5, 2013)

SternRitter said:


> Wait, so all of the rules and facts Oda has set throught the first half of OP can be changed on a whim because "They're in the new world"? What if he introduced the Secret-Admirals who are 10x stronger than the normal ones,  would that be ok because its the "new world"?



Oda has stated that the Admirals are the strongest fighters within the government.Something that's been proven by the story itself.


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## Aldric (May 5, 2013)

Hey guys that one entirely inconsequential group of characters showing up without foreshadowing is as bad as useless main characters, incoherent themes, nonsensical power balance, terrible portrayal of relationships and entirely pointless character arcs

Why do you have DOUBLE STANDARDS I've got you figured out I'm so smart


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## ~Howling~ (May 5, 2013)

This thread's still alive ?
Nice.


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## SternRitter (May 5, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Oda has stated that the Admirals are the strongest fighters within the government.Something that's been proven by the story itself.



It was a joke.


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## Bruce Wayne (May 5, 2013)

Pain In The Ass said:


> On a side note, Kubo having more votes than Kishi?  *SL must have brought their forces to this thread.*



 

+reped.


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## The Doctor (May 5, 2013)

p-lou said:


> one of my biggest complaints is how over time the straw hats have been relegated to their respective gags.  the worst offender obviously being sanji.
> 
> it can be very easy to forget there are actual characters behind them when all you regularly see are the gags.  there are several things that add to this (the series being so old, new characters being added to the main cast, the main cast being separated, etc), but it can still be quite frustrating.
> 
> when nami is just acting like a money grubbing bitch for 4 volumes it's easy to forget what shaped that mentality 50 volumes ago.


yeah, there is that.

I think the main problems are the series being old and with streched out arcs. Like you said, things that happened 12 years ago tend to be forgotten and overlapped by what the strawhats have done recently.

The series would be better written if it was shorter, that's obvious. At least we got stuff like Davy Back in the process.


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## The Doctor (May 5, 2013)

jungle said:


> Sangi's NOSEBLEED was annoying, I have absolutely no arguments with you on that.
> 
> *But eh, so was Naruto making Pain/Nagato become good again just by talking to him. The whole zombie reviving mumble jumble was mostly just filler. This war isn't even anticipating, and Kishimoto seems to act as if we were suppose to be shocked that Tobi was not Madara, I sure wasn't. The fact that he was Obito was no surprise and renders all his build-up to be nothing.
> *
> ...


I wasn't really comparing OP with neither Naruto or Bleach. I dislike both series and haven't read them for years now.


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## Cheeky (May 5, 2013)

This thread would be more interesting if we introduced more authors.

Like Togashi or Ohkubo.


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## Golden Witch (May 5, 2013)

^Ryukishi.


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## Syed (May 5, 2013)

Pain In The Ass said:


> On a side note, Kubo having more votes than Kishi?  SL must have brought their forces to this thread.



Could of fooled me. A bunch of AP forum posters seem to have invaded this thread.



Cheeky said:


> This thread would be more interesting if we introduced more authors.
> 
> Like Togashi or Ohkubo.



Togashi wins. No contest.


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## OS (May 5, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> nitpicks, nitpicks everywhere
> 
> HURRDURRCP0WASASSPULL
> 
> seriously, go complain about something more interesting like how badly paced and boring the middle chunk of Punk Hazard was, Amazon Lilly fan-service arc or Fishmen Island that sucked major dongs, had one of the worst OP villain so far and had that god-awful SANJINOSEBLEED gag.



Pretty sure those have been known and addressed but in this case the good outweighs the bad.


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## B Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

One Piece has many good things, that the bad things tend to be overlooked. That's why the majority of fans think it's a good/great series, with some people thinking it's average. 

However, I agree, if One Piece was shorter it would be better. It's hard to remember things from 12 years ago. Hell some new fans these days only came for Marineford, they probably don't even know about Alabasta or Arlong Park.


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## jNdee~ (May 5, 2013)

You mean like HxH and FMA?


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## Mizura (May 5, 2013)

Heh, random thought: it's like this thread's star rating is the average of the three authors' writing skills.

(by the way, I said average, not "all three have the same writing skill")


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## The Doctor (May 5, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> Pretty sure those have been known and addressed but in this case the good outweighs the bad.


what            ?


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## OS (May 5, 2013)

People already know about how bad those were in one piece. But no one is really gonna use that as an argument against Oda because the good in one piss trumps the bad.


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## The Doctor (May 5, 2013)

yeah, sure, it's much better to complain about cp0


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## Redshadow49 (May 5, 2013)

oda purely because all three tried to do a war arc and only one succeeded


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## Syed (May 6, 2013)

Redshadow49 said:


> oda purely because all three tried to do a war arc and only one succeeded



All three had/have pretty crappy war arcs. One Piece's war arc was better than Bleach's or Naruto's though. The only thing in Bleach's war arc I liked were the flashbacks, Barragan and the Deicide chapters. Naruto's war arc has been quite disappointing.


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## Redshadow49 (May 6, 2013)

the only thing that is even between these authors are their well planned and well executed retrieval arcs.  

One Piece = Robin
Naruto = Sasuke
Bleach = Rukia 

I cant decided which author did it better.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 6, 2013)

robin's is better


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## Aldric (May 6, 2013)

Redshadow49 said:


> the only thing that is even between these authors are their *well planned and well executed retrieval arcs*.





> *Naruto = Sasuke*



Hahahahahahahahahahahaha


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## The World (May 6, 2013)

Naruto killed Aldric's childhood dreams

His reality was shattered when Kishi started Part 2

And he had a stroke when he read Naruto hyperventilating

It's also his drug of choice along with some smack


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## Bruce Wayne (May 6, 2013)

Redshadow49 said:


> the only thing that is even between these authors are their* well planned and well executed retrieval arcs. *
> 
> *Bleach = Rukia *
> 
> I cant decided which author did it better.


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## Redshadow49 (May 6, 2013)

Aldric said:


> Hahahahahahahahahahahaha


ok when i said that i meant in comparison to other shonen mangas.  I admit I haven't read it in a long time, but I remember fond things about:amazed.



Bruce Wayne said:


>


That was imo the only great arc Bleach had.  You wouldn't read bleach if you didn't like that arc.


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## Jungle (May 6, 2013)

Eminem said:


> One Piece has many good things, that the bad things tend to be overlooked. That's why the majority of fans think it's a good/great series, with some people thinking it's average.



I'm aware that One Piece does have bad things but I'm not going to sit and point them out, the things that are good tend to overweight the more not so great things. I acknowledge that One Piece has flaws, but I think Naruto & Bleach have more.

One Piece isn't my favourite series actually.


I really didn't like chapter 609.



Boshi said:


> yeah.. shut up.



Not until you do as well, try to actually defend your argument(I don't care if you do so poorly) and maybe I won't respond to your comments with stupid replies.


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