# Baki (Grappler Baki) vs Captain America (Marvel)



## Berserkhawk z (May 26, 2009)

Fight takes place in the Maxim tournament arena, who wins?


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## Knight (May 26, 2009)

Captain america dodges bullets and is peak human. what can baki do?


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## Whip Whirlwind (May 26, 2009)

That and he's a tactical genius.


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## neodragzero (May 26, 2009)

Phanteros said:


> Captain america dodges bullets and is peak human. what can baki do?



Can dodge bullets, beyond peak human, and numerous upon numerous techniques in his arsenal. He's superior in martial arts know how and physical capability.


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## Knight (May 26, 2009)

feats for baki?


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## neodragzero (May 26, 2009)

At age 13, he defeated a man eating ape. During the same year, he defeated a Yakuza fighter by the name of Hanayama Kaoru who at the time was strong enough to take apart a car with his barehands and had a grip strong enough to make a man's arm muscle explode. He also defeated the superhuman military fighter Gaia that was capable of using adrenaline to boost up his stats to superhuman speed, strength, and agility.

At age 17...Christ. He won the Tokyo Stadium Maximum Tournament. This a tournament where you have a karateka named Orochi Katsumi that can spam supersonic punches and Baki's final opponent, Jack, was able to stomp a polar bear...before Baki beat the said individual after he gain more techniques and a power up that occured in the middle of their match. Baki has gotten even stronger past that point to where he defeats a giant praying mantis in image training, defeated one of the top tier fighters in the Bakiverse, and currently is fighting a superhuman caveman named Pickle; a caveman that hunted down Tyrannosaurs, triceratops, brontosaurus, etc. Before this current bout, Baki went through an image training of fighting a T-Rex.

Baki has basically copied numerous techniques of other fighters in the series. This can include a cord cutting technique that slices up a person's nerves, the above mentioned supersonic combo, a technique of doing an open palm strike to the face that disrupts a person's ability to breath the needed percentage of oxygen for their respiratory system and thus knock them out, a strike technique that ripped up the stomach of a fighter with an outer stomach layered with muscles, etc.

I really need to put together a respect thread or something. It's so much crap when I think about it.

I also would like to add that the lower tier character named Orochi Katsumi was able to develop an even greater supersonic technique that created sonic booms that engulfed the inner space of Tokyo Stadium. Numerous attacks of this level and even a bit higher upon Pickle. Pickle still won the fight.


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## Whip Whirlwind (May 26, 2009)

Im still going with Cap, although with high difficulty.


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## Knight (May 26, 2009)

cap fights superhumans all the time. even though its with jobber aura


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## neodragzero (May 26, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Im still going with Cap, although with high difficulty.



You're going with Cap because?


Phanteros said:


> cap fights superhumans all the time. even though its with jobber aura



When's the last he has fought and defeated a superhuman opponent without the jobber aura? Also, I would like to add that the high tier that Baki defeated was able to easily enough tank multiple point blank shot gun blasts...while he was naked.


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## Whip Whirlwind (May 26, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> You're going with Cap because?



Because Cap is one of the best martial artists in the marvel universe and has limited superhuman strength and speed (can lift a ton and run 60mph i think)

He's also a bullet timer with great reaction, and has a shield that can block almost all attacks. He's also a tactical genius as I mentioned above.

keep in mind i've never read grappler baki so im just going by what you posted


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## FistofIron (May 26, 2009)

I'm going with Baki.


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## neodragzero (May 26, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Because Cap is one of the best martial artists in the marvel universe and has limited superhuman strength and speed (can lift a ton and run 60mph i think)


That's not enough as skill and physical capability comparison goes.


> He's also a bullet timer with great reaction, and has a shield that can block almost all attacks. He's also a tactical genius as I mentioned above.


Still not enough. Bullet timing isn't a high end feat while the shield doesn't matter as much when he loses it against a better fighter as grip and agility goes. So-called tactical genius buzz wording isn't going to cut it either.


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## Whip Whirlwind (May 26, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> That's not enough as skill and physical capability comparison goes.
> 
> Still not enough. Bullet timing isn't a high end feat while the shield doesn't matter as much when he loses it against a better fighter as grip and agility goes. So-called tactical genius buzz wording isn't going to cut it either.



hmm, well given the feats you've posted i still think cap wins. Maybe if i'd read baki i'd think differently.


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## neodragzero (May 26, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> hmm, well given the feats you've posted i still think cap wins. Maybe if i'd read baki i'd think differently.



You still think Cap wins a bout against a superhuman martial artist with numerous different techniques, supersonic speed, and overall better physical capability.

I see where this is going...


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## neodragzero (May 26, 2009)

First, please use the edit button and spoiler tags next time. There's no need to make multiple posts. Each image should have a spoiler tag so that they don't just simply take up a lot of the thread page.

Second, the punch to Rhinos noise thing isn't much of a feat. Captain America in the scene himself comments on the vulnerability of the mask opening. Why do I have the feeling that your "durability" pic is of Ultimate Captain America rather than 616. Especially when 616 Captain America was killed with pistols. 616 Captain America also doesn't carry around guns at all.

Your speed scan doesn't work when he's off panel and the solider has his eyes closed as he fires blindly. It doesn't suggest that he's bullet timing at all there. The torpedo is moving upon the ground, with wheels upon it, and he has to use his shield to get it off the ground. Nobody is saying that Steve has crappy agility.

What would be good to bring up is how Steve comments that he can see the movement of bullets while they are in mid-air during one of Brubaker's issues.


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## Knight (May 26, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> First, please use the edit button and spoiler tags next time. There's no need to make multiple posts. Each image should have a spoiler tag so that they don't just simply take up a lot of the thread page.
> 
> Second, the punch to Rhinos noise thing isn't much of a feat. Captain America in the scene himself comments on the vulnerability of the mask opening. Why do I have the feeling that your "durability" pic is of Ultimate Captain America rather than 616. Especially when 616 Captain America was killed with pistols. 616 Captain America also doesn't carry around guns at all.
> 
> ...


ok thanks for telling me


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## Knight (May 26, 2009)

well the best durablity i can think of right now for cap is is the iron man fight, but this really depends on the version we are using. my knowledge is a little rusty


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## Grandmaster Kane (May 27, 2009)

Baki pwns cap in every stat except experience. What makes this fight interesting is cap's use of his vibranium sheild vs Baki. That is what makes this a good fight.


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## ehdahora2 (May 27, 2009)

Grandmaster Kane said:


> Baki pwns cap in every stat except experience. What makes this fight interesting is cap's use of his vibranium sheild vs Baki. That is what makes this a good fight.



couldnt agree more


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## The Darkstar (May 27, 2009)

i vote for the captain. stomp stomp stomp.


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## Itachi2000 (May 27, 2009)

Cap has tagged the Hulk, Spiderman, Quicksilver, and even hold his own against IG Wielding Thanos, i don't see baki surviving anyone of those list cap has fought.


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## Grandmaster Kane (May 28, 2009)

Welcome to the jobber aura


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## Power16 (May 28, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> Cap has tagged the Hulk, Spiderman, Quicksilver, and even *hold his own against IG Wielding Thanos*, i don't see baki surviving anyone of those list cap has fought.



Really? You using this as an example of how good CA is doesn't seem off to you...


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## ArabianLuffy (May 28, 2009)

I haven't seen Grappler Baki... I dunno if he defeated his father.. but I still need to watch it so I can make sure.. for now Captain America is strong to me but not gonna vote until I watch Baki first X3


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## ehdahora2 (May 28, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> Cap has tagged the Hulk, Spiderman, Quicksilver, and even hold his own against IG Wielding Thanos, i don't see baki surviving anyone of those list cap has fought.



i am pretty sure this kind of powerscale doesnt work , if we were going by that , wolverine could even defeat thor


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## Glued (May 29, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Because Cap is one of the best martial artists in the marvel universe and has limited superhuman strength and speed (can lift a ton and run 60mph i think)
> 
> He's also a bullet timer with great reaction, and has a shield that can block almost all attacks. He's also a tactical genius as I mentioned above.
> 
> keep in mind i've never read grappler baki so im just going by what you posted



Here is a picture of Hanayama smashing through steel bars


Here is a picture of Hanayama smashing through a metallic prison gate


This is what Hanayama did to a deck of cards using his fingers


This is what Speck did to the Statue of Liberty


This is what Hanayama did to Speck


Why am I showing you this, because Hanayama would probably be even with Captain America and Baki beat Hanayama when he was only 13


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## skiboydoggy (May 29, 2009)

Captain America uses pressure points.


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## Glued (May 29, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> Captain America uses pressure points.




Biscuit Oliva gets shot by guns, and remains unharmed, but Baki beat him.

Retsu Kaioh can runs so fast, he doesn't break the surface tension of water. He lost to Baki

Orochi Doppu can cut metallic wires used for space ships with his hands. Doppu can also blow out fire by simply waving his arms.

Doppu lost to Shibukawa.

Shibukawa lost to Jack Hammer

Jack lost to Baki.


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## skiboydoggy (May 29, 2009)

Cap punched out Hulk.


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## neodragzero (May 29, 2009)

Yet we all know how utterly dumb that is.


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## skiboydoggy (May 29, 2009)

But we all know Jobber Aura is one of Cap's powers.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 29, 2009)

What would a Cap thread be in the OBD without some bullshit feats peppered through it.


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## Glued (May 29, 2009)

Oh please, Baki has his own Jobber Aura.

He first came to the Black Pentagon prison and attacked Biscuit Oliva.

It was useless.

Then he later beat Biscuit without any training.

Him and Biscuit also had a straight fist fight at the end of their battle, simply exchanging punch for punch.

Biscuit was stronger
Biscuit was heavier

Baki still won.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (May 29, 2009)

Cap can throw flat circular items really _really_ hard.


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## FistofIron (May 29, 2009)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh please, Baki has his own Jobber Aura.
> 
> He first came to the Black Pentagon prison and attacked Biscuit Oliva.
> 
> ...



Thats not really jobber aura. Baki beat Oliva becuase the demon face appeared on his back and gave him a power-up.


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## neodragzero (May 29, 2009)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh please, Baki has his own Jobber Aura.
> 
> He first came to the Black Pentagon prison and attacked Biscuit Oliva.
> 
> ...



What are you talking about? Baki didn't seriously fight Olivia until after Olivia beat Che. The image training with the giant preying mantis was also commented to be a training build up before he goes after Olivia. The Oni no Kao powerup of course is also added to the equation. Might as well complain that Jack got a power up during his final bout with Baki in the Maximum Tournament as logic goes. The changes Baki has gone through between the first time he met Olivia and their final battle is made quite clear.

Cap on the other hand has no explanation WHATSOEVER.


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## skiboydoggy (May 29, 2009)

Is Ben Grimm really comparing Baki's power ups to Captain America's Jobber Aura? You know, the one that let him beat the Hulk, face off against Thanos, and push back Onslaught?


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 29, 2009)

And what's this about Thanos? I only remember Cap punching him to absolutely no effect while Thanos watched Surfer zipping away and then Thanos swatted Cap aside and willed himself to full IG power.


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## skiboydoggy (May 29, 2009)

Charcan said:


> And what's this about Thanos? I only remember Cap punching him to absolutely no effect while Thanos watched Surfer zipping away and then Thanos swatted Cap aside and willed himself to full IG power.


The fact that Cap didn't die within half a second of Thanos spotting him? Jobber-tastic.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 29, 2009)

That was more Thanos humoring the heroes in general. Cap just happened to be more fitting of giving a speech.


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## Itachi2000 (May 29, 2009)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh please, Baki has his own Jobber Aura.
> 
> He first came to the Black Pentagon prison and attacked Biscuit Oliva.
> 
> ...


Cap hold his own against Thanos with IG
Thanos>Bakiverse
Cap win


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (May 29, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> Cap hold his own against Thanos with IG
> Thanos>Bakiverse
> Cap win



PIS is off for fights.


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## skiboydoggy (May 29, 2009)

Kamen Rider Godzilla said:


> PIS is off for fights.


Captain America made Onslaught bleed.
Captain America punched out the Hulk.
Captain America was considered enough to beat every other street level superhero by SHIELD.

Captain America and PIS off don't make a good combo. Besides, he could just hold out his shield until Baki gets winded, then throw it and knock him out.


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## Itachi2000 (May 29, 2009)

Kamen Rider Godzilla said:


> PIS is off for fights.



Meaning Cap can go all-out and unleash his Jobber Aura


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## Sol Bro (May 29, 2009)

Hmmm, this could go either way.


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## ehdahora2 (May 29, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> Cap hold his own against Thanos with IG
> Thanos>Bakiverse
> Cap win



than we could say that: Caps beat wolverine . Wolverine already beat iron man .Iron man already beat the hulk . The hulk already beat thor. Thor already beat thanos . So caps is stronger than thanos???
Well, this is just absurd to say the least.


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## Itachi2000 (May 30, 2009)

ehdahora2 said:


> than we could say that: Caps beat wolverine . Wolverine already beat iron man .Iron man already beat the hulk . The hulk already beat thor. Thor already beat thanos . So caps is stronger than thanos???
> Well, this is just absurd to say the least.



No we don't use ABC logic here because if we do that might as well add Thanos defeated post Retcon Beyonder. Beyonder defeated all the Abstract and LT

*Meaning Cap>LT.*
Bakiverse has chance really


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (May 30, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> *No we don't use ABC logic here* because if we do that might as well add Thanos defeated post Retcon Beyonder. Beyonder defeated all the Abstract and LT
> 
> *Meaning Cap>LT.*
> Bakiverse has chance really



Basically you are saying you're a hypocrite, since you just used ABC logic:



Itachi2000 said:


> Cap hold his own against Thanos with IG
> Thanos>Bakiverse
> Cap win


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## Itachi2000 (May 30, 2009)

Kamen Rider Godzilla said:


> Basically you are saying you're a hypocrite, since you just used ABC logic:


:amazed
it's called sarcasm


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## ehdahora2 (May 30, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> Cap hold his own against Thanos with IG
> Thanos>Bakiverse
> Cap win



I suppose this is sarcasm too , if not you are indeed just a hypocrite


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## Itachi2000 (May 31, 2009)

ehdahora2 said:


> I suppose this is sarcasm too , if not you are indeed just a hypocrite



what do you think?
sarcasm of course

but this is not sarcasm 
*Thanos>Bakiverse*
this is fact


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## Berserkhawk z (May 31, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> *Thanos>Bakiverse*
> this is fact



This is true, but Cap surviving against Thanos was nothing more than jobber Aura, it certainly doesn't make him anywhere near Herald level never mind Skyfather level.

That's like saying Batman batkicking the Spectre makes him Spectre level.


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## skiboydoggy (May 31, 2009)

Seriously though, in terms of pure strength Cap can't match Baki at all, ever. On the other hand, the shield completely resisting a flurry of Hulk Smash is pretty much canon and not particularly ridiculous, which means that Cap might be able to win by attrition or something.


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## neodragzero (May 31, 2009)

Here's the thing about the shield, there's such a thing as grabbing another person's shield. Cap's usage the shield doesn't really work out as well when he's fighting someone with enough agility, speed, and strength to take it away from him.


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## skiboydoggy (May 31, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> Here's the thing about the shield, there's such a thing as grabbing another person's shield. Cap's usage the shield doesn't really work out as well when he's fighting someone with enough agility, speed, and strength to take it away from him.


Hulk? Spider-man? Wolverine?


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## neodragzero (May 31, 2009)

The Hulk isn't really known for his agility while he never seems to care enough to try to take away someone's shield or weapon instead of just bashing down on them. Wolverine and Spiderman's CIS, or the plot situation, stops them from usually making the attempt.

Any suggestion of Cap beating the Hulk or more is just more jobber aura. There's numerous enough times when the shield isn't blocking him off from an opponent all the time.


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## Itachi2000 (May 31, 2009)

berserkhawk z said:


> This is true, but Cap surviving against Thanos was nothing more than jobber Aura, it certainly doesn't make him anywhere near Herald level never mind Skyfather level.
> 
> That's like saying Batman batkicking the Spectre makes him Spectre level.



Cap Jobber Aura always protected him what can Baki do against him?


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## Berserkhawk z (Jun 1, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> Cap Jobber Aura always protected him what can Baki do against him?



In Marvel-verse it always protected him but in OBD matches it means shit.

Baki could merely blitz Cap and kick his spine in half with a steel splitting kick.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 1, 2009)

If there's one thing Baki can't do, its blitz Cap. This is the guy who reacts to bullets casually, shield or no shield. Even if Baki's arm can move at supersonic speeds, there's no way that facilitates a blitz, especially since he'll have to move behind the shield.


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## Agmaster (Jun 1, 2009)

These colors bleed true america.  Cap will never lose.


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## Sol Bro (Jun 1, 2009)

Cap with his sheild takes the slight majority 6/10.
Without his sheild is a different story. They appear to be equal in just about every area of fighting.


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## neodragzero (Jun 2, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> If there's one thing Baki can't do, its blitz Cap. This is the guy who reacts to bullets casually, shield or no shield. Even if Baki's arm can move at supersonic speeds, there's no way that facilitates a blitz, especially since he'll have to move behind the shield.



Daredevil has once hit Captain America in the face. Daredevil isn't supersonic. Cap has been hit by characters that are peak human at best. The shield is meaningless the moment he loses it anyway.


> Cap with his sheild takes the slight majority 6/10.
> Without his sheild is a different story. They appear to be equal in just about every area of fighting.


No, Baki has higher stats.


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## Itachi2000 (Jun 2, 2009)

berserkhawk z said:


> *In Marvel-verse it always protected him but in OBD matches it means shit.*
> 
> Baki could merely blitz Cap and kick his spine in half with a steel splitting kick.



Against someone who dodge bullet regularly i don't think so?
And the bolded no your definitely wrong that only happened if PIS and CIS is off
a someone made a thread with Cap, Wolverine or Spiderman against say Yujiro hanma and then it stated PIS and CIS is on what does it mean?
It mean Jobber Aura is on


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## neodragzero (Jun 2, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> Against someone who dodge bullet regularly i don't think so?


More like blocks. There's a difference between the open statement of seeing the movement of bullets and doing what a Hokuto no Ken character can do in speed.


> And the bolded no your definitely wrong that only happened if PIS and CIS is off
> a someone made a thread with Cap, Wolverine or Spiderman against say Yujiro hanma and then it stated PIS and CIS is on what does it mean?
> It mean Jobber Aura is on


The thing is that this isn't a PIS on thread. The jobber aura stuff is meaningless here. No one here, besides you, is suggesting the opposite at all.


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## Berserkhawk z (Jun 2, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> Against someone who dodge bullet regularly i don't think so?
> And the bolded no your definitely wrong that only happened if PIS and CIS is off
> a someone made a thread with Cap, Wolverine or Spiderman against say Yujiro hanma and then it stated PIS and CIS is on what does it mean?
> It mean Jobber Aura is on



Jobber Aura is off unless stated, and Baki beat someone who was said to be one of only three people in the world that can block a machine gun with his bare hands.

Cap needs a shield to block bullets, Baki's gonna rip him a new one especially in Ogre mode.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 3, 2009)

Cap needs a shield to block bullets, but that's ignoring the fact that the same shield can tank anything below Odinforce Runeking Thor's attacks easily and even more importantly, can beat gunfire in terms of force when thrown.


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## neodragzero (Jun 3, 2009)

It's durability is meaningless when Baki isn't simply going to stand around and bang on Cap's shield. There have been numerous moments of Cap not simply standing around on the defensive with his shield. A trade of a blows will occur. Just that Cap has a greater attack force to worry about; whether it be Baki's greater level of striking power or the usage of numerous harsh techniques.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jun 3, 2009)

Whip of mercury would end cap


First one takes his shield.
Second one takes his throat.


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## Itachi2000 (Jun 4, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> More like blocks. There's a difference between the open statement of seeing the movement of bullets and doing what a Hokuto no Ken character can do in speed.


He casually dodge bullet many times



> The thing is that this isn't a PIS on thread. The jobber aura stuff is meaningless here. No one here, besides you, is suggesting the opposite at all.


PIS off ?
then Im assuming both side is full strength meaning Cap is holding Mjolnir


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## neodragzero (Jun 4, 2009)

Itachi2000 said:


> He casually dodge bullet many times


A ratio below that of blocking bullets and being hit by people that aren't supersonic. I already made a statement about a trading of blows. Just that Cap loses out in that exchange.


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## Sol Bro (Jun 4, 2009)

Dodging or blocking bullets is impressive, but it's best not to dwell on that. It's a factor in this battle, but it does not determine the victor. After reading over the manga again I'm going to have to go with Baki.


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