# 7th Gate Gai vs MS Obito, Fourth Raikage and War Arc SM Naruto.



## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

7th Gate Gai vs MS Obito, Fourth Raikage and SM Naruto.

All are in their prime. All are fresh and healthy. Ei is in V2 from the start. 

Battlefield: Juubi vs Shinobi Alliance.

State of mind: bloodlusted.

Starting distance: 50 meters. 

They know about each other's abilities.

Who wins?


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## Alex Payne (Sep 14, 2015)

..is it free for all?


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## Deer Lord (Sep 14, 2015)

what did gai ever do to deserve this


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## Mercurial (Sep 14, 2015)

Ei is nothing to Gai, is almost irrelevant: Gai is much faster than him, much stronger than him, much more skilled in taijutsu than him, much more versatile (powerful AoE attacks) not to mention the different portrayal. SM Naruto is powerful but not enough. Gai can definitely defeat them.

Obito with Kamui hax can survive Gai, even if Gai is giving him a very very very very very hard time, since even in base he was able to hold his own against him.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> what did gai ever do to deserve this


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## Deer Lord (Sep 14, 2015)

Ah yes, the fabled "couldn't land a single hit on juudara" 



Obito uses Izanagi and shanks him
game over.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Ah yes, the fabled "couldn't land a single hit on juudara"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With his level of speed which pressured and surprised even Juubidara? I highly doubt. Plus, Obito has to break his mask in order to use Izanagi.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 14, 2015)

Reality warping > Speed.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Reality warping > Speed.



Nope. Especially when Obito has to break his mask in order to use Izanagi.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 14, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Nope. Especially when Obito has to break his mask in order to use Izanagi.


You do realize that was just for dramatic effect right?


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## Ghost (Sep 14, 2015)

Guy gets shit stomped. Everyone on the second team beat him 1 v 1.


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## ARGUS (Sep 14, 2015)

Guy gets shat on if he's facing them all by himself 
Obitos kamui alone is a bitch for him to deal with especially when we consider the fact that intangibility is passive therefore whatever will overlap with Obitos body will just phase right through him. 
Guy being faster becomes moot when Obito would never attempt to warp him when the latter is in Gates 

Individually however I will agree that Guy beats ay and SM naruto mid diff 
Most likely loses to Obito but I'd wager that he might be superior overall


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## RBL (Sep 14, 2015)

Ghost said:


> Guy gets shit stomped. Everyone on the second team beat him 1 v 1.



good joke, the only one from the second team i see gai not defeating that easy  is obito, Gai really shits on the raikage with not diff, naruto might be a tought one but i still think gai can take it.


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## Ghost (Sep 14, 2015)

Kimimaro and Guy the holy wanked duo.


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## RBL (Sep 14, 2015)

nah

Gai is actually underrated when he is not using the 8 gates,people think that just because he is able to use one more technique he is not strong enough to compete against top tier enemies.

Gai has clearly shown hs is waay stronger, faster, versatile and smarter than the raikage, yet people like to act like if he wasn't , just to feel like if they are having a different opinion, the thing is that it is not about an opinion, IT IS a fact 

​
it is stated here in the holy gaible.


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## Ersa (Sep 14, 2015)

Poor Gai.

He's not much stronger then Ei so either Obito or Naruto mop the floor with him. He needs the 8th Gate to win this (even then Obito could outlast with Izanagi and Kamui).


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## Bonly (Sep 14, 2015)

Obito can pretty much solo this sooooooooooooo yeah, adding in A and Naruto is only gonna make Obito's job easier


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## Amol (Sep 14, 2015)

Gai gets utterly stomped.
I am realizing that masters are quite wanked on this board.
I mean people can actually throw things like A being _irrelevant _ against Gai without getting labeled as trolls(not that they needs to be labeled such as everyone automatically considers them trolls) here.
MS Obito can beat Gai on his own.
So can War Arc SM Naruto .


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

It seems nobody cares that after opening 7th Gate, he surprised Juubidara with his speed and pressured him. I was interesting in Battledome opinion about this. As for me, i do think he can solo all of them at once. 1 Hirudora is enough to finish Ei, who is a fodder compare to 7th Gate Gai, SM Naruto can be killed by his basic 7th Gate punches, which could hurt Kisame, and Obito can be intangible only for 5 minutes.

Gai is heavily underrated.


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## Ghost (Sep 14, 2015)

Brandon Lee said:


> nah
> 
> Gai is actually underrated when he is not using the 8 gates,people think that just because he is able to use one more technique he is not strong enough to compete against top tier enemies.
> 
> Gai has clearly shown hs is waay stronger, faster, versatile and smarter than the raikage, yet people like to act like if he wasn't , just to feel like if they are having a different opinion, the thing is that it is not about an opinion, IT IS a fact


 


> ​


 





StarWanderer said:


> It seems nobody cares that after opening 7th Gate, he surprised Juubidara with his speed and pressured him. I was interesting in Battledome opinion about this. As for me, i do think he can solo all of them at once. *1 Hirudora is enough to finish Ei, who is a fodder compare to 7th Gate Gai, SM Naruto can be killed by his basic 7th Gate punches,* which could hurt Kisame, and Obito can be intangible only for 5 minutes.







> Gai is heavily underrated.



no


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## Deer Lord (Sep 14, 2015)

> One hirudora finishes Ei
> Kisame tanking hirudora just fine


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

Ghost said:


> no



7th Gate Gai made Kisame bleed after hitting his torso with only 1 basic punch.

7th Gate Gai either heavily damaged, or destroyed Edo Madara's V3 Susanoo.

And Ei is a lot slower.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> > One hirudora finished Ei
> > Kisame tanking hirudora just fine



Because Gai wanted to capture him alive.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 14, 2015)

I didn't realize hirudora has a soft punch mode


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## Ghost (Sep 14, 2015)

If Seventh Gate Guy is so fast, strong and skilled that he can push JJ Madara then why didn't he just speed blitz Kisame and pin him down with force? 

Madara was just interested in seeing a Taijutsu master and played with Guy. He would've killed Seventh Gate GUy anytime he wanted with utter ease.


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## Matty (Sep 14, 2015)

Are you psychotic?! Gai deserves better than this thrashing he's about to receive -_-


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> I didn't realize hirudora has a soft punch mode



You do know how it works, right? You do know that it had to go through Daikodan, right? You do know that he compressed air with his Hirudora punch *under water*, right?



> If Seventh Gate Guy is so fast, strong and skilled that he can push JJ Madara then why didn't he just speed blitz Kisame and pin him down with force?



Maybe because he wanted to make sure that Kisame gets knocked out, for example? He is a member of the Akatsuki, after all. So Gai decided to use Hirudora right off the bat.



> Madara was just interested in seeing a Taijutsu master and played with Guy. He would've killed Seventh Gate GUy anytime he wanted with utter ease.



That is just your assumption based on nothing at all.

Madara wasnt playing around with SM Naruto, wasnt playing around with Tailed Beasts, wasnt playing around with SM Minato, wasnt playing around with Tobirama, yet he will play around with Gai for some reason?

Have you seen Juubidara's face expressions in that fight?


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## Ghost (Sep 14, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> That is just your assumption based on nothing at all.


Except that we know Madara has played around wit his opponents for his own amusement. 


> Madara wasnt playing around with SM Naruto, wasnt playing around with Tailed Beasts, wasnt playing around with SM Minato, wasnt playing around with Tobirama, yet he will play around with Gai for some reason?


Because SM Naruto didn't interest him at all. He has already known Tobirama for all his life. Guy is a pure Taijutsu user and a very strong one, which is rare. 


> Have you seen Juubidara's face expressions in that fight?



Yeah, and?


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

> Except that we know Madara has played around wit his opponents for his own amusement.



Except 2 things:

1. You have no proff, literally no proof, that he played around with Gai.
2. He played with nobody after he got Rinne Tensei'ed. The only exception was Sasuke, because he wanted Sasuke to join him.



> Because SM Naruto didn't interest him at all. He has already known Tobirama for all his life. Guy is a pure Taijutsu user and a very strong one, which is rare.



Yet Gai will be interesting for him for some reason? Tobirama wasnt interesting, SM Minato, Fourth Hokage, wasnt interesting, Tailed Beasts werent interesting, yet Gai, of all people, will be so interesting that Juubidara will purposely make those face expressions and play around with him?



> Yeah, and?



And he wasnt playing around. Those face expressions prove that. Plus, Juubidara had no reason to play around with him. And before that, he never played around with anyone except Sasuke after he got RT'ed. 

You are trying to downplay his feat, with no canon on your side at all.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 14, 2015)

Obito solos, Kamui & Izanagi is a terrifying combination.



> I didn't realize hirudora has a soft punch mode


This is pretty much what I've been saying for awhile now.

That Hirudora was full powered, by feats it looks exactly the same as the other use on Madara, and there's generally nothing that suggests the power of the technique can be reduced once used. 

Kisame survived it- Ei certainly survives it, regardless of the condition he's in afterwards.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Obito solos, Kamui & Izanagi is a terrifying combination.



He needs to break his mask for izanagi, which he wont be able to do against such a speedster. Plus, Gai is fast enough to attack him non-stop for 5 minutes.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 14, 2015)

So he goes intangible and dislodges it in Kamui dimension?


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## StarWanderer (Sep 14, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> So he goes intangible and dislodges it in Kamui dimension?



However, are you sure it will work on Gai? How will he act after Obito's body disappears?

That can work hypothetically. Gai is not a sensor. And he doesnt have any good hearing feats. Also, he doesnt have knowledge on izanagi.


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2015)

They neg diff gai 
Gai can't do shit to obito 
He simply phase while having a laugh till guy tires out 

Gai even said so big attacks don't work on obito


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Sep 14, 2015)

Change the teams around so that its Obito vs Naruto, Ei and Gai.

Then Obtio solos.

With regsrd to this match up. Gai gets shat stomped raped all the way to the grave. Then overrated corpse ass gets molested by Ei, just for the lulz.


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## Kyu (Sep 14, 2015)

Gai gets prisonraped.


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## LostSelf (Sep 14, 2015)

Gai loses.

But came here to lol at how Gai lovers debate against him with such passion .

So much hate for a fictional character is beautiful.


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## Raiken (Sep 14, 2015)

I'm sorry, but Gai is raped... so hard.


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## ARGUS (Sep 14, 2015)

People are still saying that kisame tanked Hirudora? And are using this as an excuse to downplay its DC feats? Smh 

What people seem to be forgetting is that Hirudora was used to counter The huge gigantic GSB shark, and had to go through this giant shark first before it got through to kisame 

Then there's the fact that the hirudora was still partly shrinking, as noted by kisame. The only issue was that the shark was not getting bigger due to it being taijutsu 

Nonetheless people claiming that kisame tanked hirudora would be implying 2 ridiculous things: 
1. Kisame is far more durable than V3 susanoo 
2. Hirudora from weakened Guy >>>> Hirudora from fresh 7th gate guy 

Point 1 is completely ridiculous, since we have seen V3 susanoo protecting Itachi from the likes of Kirin and V3 susanoo certainly tanks Bees lariat which obliterated kisame and had he not have absorbed so much chakra from bee. He would have been dead 
And Point 2 literally makes no sense. Since its like saying that 50% guy > 100% guy 

Either way, the thought of guy even having a tough time against the likes of Ay or SM naruto is as stupid as it gets 
V2 Ay at his max failed to blitz a slower edo madara and had a flesh wound by a mere chidori 
Which is far inferior to raikiri which is far inferior to Hirudora, 
Then there's the fact that guy tagged juubi Jin madara with his sheer speed and striking speed 
Inb4 denial and downplay of guys feat, 

The likes of Ay are not doing jack shit on him 

Inb4 "ays statement of him being the fastest" which gets shat on because 
1. New manga > Old manga 
2. What's shown >>>>> what's implied or assumed 

Do I even need to mention to SM naruto? The same guy who struggled against blind madaras shunshin and was sent flying from his strike despite actually blocking his hit? 
Faster strikes > slower strikes due to there being more momentum 
And naruto isn't even reacting to guy before he gets obliterated to bits 

Inb4 the usual guy hate from the usual people 

Inb4 people think I'm implying that guy beats all 3 of them once when I have explicitly stated otherwise in my previous post




RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Change the teams around so that its Obito vs Naruto, Ei and Gai.
> 
> Then Obtio solos.
> 
> With regsrd to this match up. Gai gets shat stomped raped all the way to the grave. Then overrated corpse ass gets molested by Ei, just for the lulz.



Lol Obito gets prison raped if he faces all three of them at once


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## Kor (Sep 14, 2015)

Gai wins mid-diff, Obito is the only real threat due to Kamui GG.

SM Naruto and V2 A are both amazing speedsters, with SM Naruto being equal if not superior but 7th Gate Gai took Juudara by surprise, even if none of his strikes connected.

By the time he's done with SM Naruto and A, Obito pops from behind to GG it if Gai doesn't react in time.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 14, 2015)

Is guy supposed to win this? A hard counter, someone who is physically on his tier and SM naruto who has a decent array of attacks and is no slouch physically either. They are all coming at guy at once he gets stepped on like a insect here.


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## Tarot (Sep 14, 2015)

Guy and Kakashi have surpassed Itachi as the wank kings omg. Obito was doing fine against Guy, Kakashi, Naruto AND Bee until they figured out how to use Kakashi's Kamui to counter his own, yet people think 7th Gate Guy>All 4 of them. 

Bell Exam Sasuke is elite jonin level. Although he did not beat him, he made Kakashi go "!" multiple times during their fight , clearing demonstrating that they were on the same field. FWI part I Naruto is elite jonin tier. He managed to get a crippling blow on Kabuto, something only a top tier shinobi could do. Inb4 deniers and haters trying to downplay their feats.

OT: Guy gets stomped like an ant


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## Clowe (Sep 14, 2015)

Holy god, Guy is seriously wanked here eh?

He gets horribly shitstomped BTW.

I would argue Ay could solo him hard diff. With his lighting armor I could see him tanking Hirudora. I mean, Kisame survived it, and even tough he has impressive durability, he doesn't have a jutsu that enhances his durability like Ay.

Guy wouldn't even use gates on Obito (canon), he knows it would be stupid to do so, ''big attacks don't work on him'' that's why he pulled the nunchucks over using gates, he would just be damaging his own body and giving Obito the advantage after he can no longer sustain the gates.


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## RBL (Sep 14, 2015)

I don't think op actually think gai can defeat them all I do believe it tho

so, just calm down u haters, i can't understand how someone can hate gai, he is so awesome


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## StarWanderer (Sep 15, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> So he goes intangible and dislodges it in Kamui dimension?



By the way, what reaction speed feats does Obito have to suggest that he will be able to go intangible before 7th Gate Gai hits him?


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## LostSelf (Sep 15, 2015)

Brandon Lee said:


> I don't think op actually think gai can defeat them all I do believe it tho
> 
> so, just calm down u haters, i can't understand how someone can hate gai, he is so awesome



The majority hate him because Gai's performance shat on some popular characters in the war. I mean, Naruto and Minato almost one-panelled in CqC against Obito while Gai in worse condition fared way better (Minato needing to use Hiraishin, Naruto using clones). And so on .

 I still remember it. Kurama vs 8th gated Gai, Nagato vs Red Gai, Naruto vs Red Gai, Tsunade vs red Gai, Minato vs Red Gai. All (save Tsunade) calling Gai overrated when they met with "Gai stomps, Gai blitz, Gai oneshot" those characters. It was the first day the Red Gai was shown. .

OT: Yeah, this needs to be closed. Obito with Kamui alone was giving 4, Gai included, troubles. Actually, had it not been for Kakashi having an effective jutsu against him, and they would've never won. You need advantage over Obito's Kamui to win it. Wich is why Minato did it, and wich is why Kakashi managed to do it too.

And hey, people saying Gai's more wanked than Itachi weren't here in the 2011.


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## Hachibi (Sep 15, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> The majority hate him because Gai's performance shat on some popular characters in the war. I mean, Naruto and Minato almost one-panelled in CqC against Obito while Gai in worse condition fared way better (Minato needing to use Hiraishin, Naruto using clones). And so on .
> 
> I still remember it. Kurama vs 8th gated Gai, Nagato vs Red Gai, Naruto vs Red Gai, Tsunade vs red Gai, Minato vs Red Gai. All (save Tsunade) calling Gai overrated when they met with "Gai stomps, Gai blitz, Gai oneshot" those characters. It was the first day the Red Gai was shown. .



Remember that one Gokage vs 8th Gate Gai thread, that somehow lasted several pages?


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## LostSelf (Sep 15, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Remember that one Gokage vs 8th Gate Gai thread, that somehow lasted several pages?



Wich one? That thread were Gai was being wanked, Madara just playing around with him, and they mounting a defense to outlast him? 

I was looking for it, but can't find it, for now .


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## Hachibi (Sep 15, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Wich one? That thread were Gai was being wanked, Madara just playing around with him, and they mounting a defense to outlast him?
> 
> I was looking for it, but can't find it, for now .



Yes, that one.

The Gokage outlasting Gai still give me a laugh 

Found it:


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## LostSelf (Sep 15, 2015)

Woa, you found it pretty fast.

8 fucking pages. That overrated Bruce Lee in green suit beating my fav. character .


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## ARGUS (Sep 15, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> By the way, what reaction speed feats does Obito have to suggest that he will be able to go intangible before 7th Gate Gai hits him?



Intangibility is passive, so obito doesnt have to react for him to phase through guys attacks 

kamui is like a mode, he can turn on and off, 
once intangiblity is on, anyhting and everything that overalps with his body will be phased through, 

but obviously obito needs to turn it off in-order to attack, so in that scenario there is no way in hell is he striking faster than 7th gate guy, 

so the only thing he can do is just troll and outlast 7th gate


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2015)

Anyone of them will solo. 



Death Arcana said:


> *Guy and Kakashi have surpassed Itachi as the wank kings omg*. Obito was doing fine against Guy, Kakashi, Naruto AND Bee until they figured out how to use Kakashi's Kamui to counter his own, yet people think 7th Gate Guy>All 4 of them.
> 
> Bell Exam Sasuke is elite jonin level. Although he did not beat him, he made Kakashi go "!" multiple times during their fight , clearing demonstrating that they were on the same field. FWI part I Naruto is elite jonin tier. He managed to get a crippling blow on Kabuto, something only a top tier shinobi could do. Inb4 deniers and haters trying to downplay their feats.
> 
> OT: Guy gets stomped like an ant



honestly I doubt that itachi comes even close to how overwanked (7th gate) Gai and (DMS)Kakashi are. Absolutly hideous.


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2015)

What Argus said obito outlasts 7 gate gai 
All ST users can . No one is taking about straight up beating him but simply waiting him out 

Also didn't gai already admit big techniques are a waste against obito because he can just phase through

They would equally be a waste against minato who could just teleport to konoha and back for the lolz


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 15, 2015)

> honestly I doubt that itachi comes even close to how overwanked (7th gate) Gai and (DMS)Kakashi are. Absolutly hideous.


Don't be ridiculous, Itachi is by far the most wanked character in the dome, and has been for years.

This is hilarious coming from you, the dome's most blatant Yellow Flash Fanboy. You're certainly no better.

@*Icegaze* & *ARGUS*: Izanagi can help him blindside warp/kill 7th Gated Gai after seemingly being killed, this is a technique he has no knowledge on.


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## Ghoztly (Sep 15, 2015)

Raikage gets curbstomped. He has a similar style and Gai is stronger, so Gai wins.

SM naruto I couldn't say.

Obito curbstomps Gai.


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## RBL (Sep 15, 2015)

gai wins against sm naruto and EI in a 1vs1.

against obito would be a different story, just because obito has HAXXX.

but can go either way, gai would never give himself up, no matter what


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Don't be ridiculous, Itachi is by far the most wanked character in the dome, and has been for years.
> .



Nah, itachi used to be the most wanked (he is still severely wanked), but then comes Hashirama, 7th Gate Gai, (D)MS Kakashi.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 15, 2015)

> Intangibility is passive, so obito doesnt have to react for him to phase through guys attacks
> 
> kamui is like a mode, he can turn on and off,
> once intangiblity is on, anyhting and everything that overalps with his body will be phased through,
> ...



Because of 5 minutes limit, and because it requires chakra, he has to turn it on. 7th Gate Gai is fast enough to break his skull and knock him out before he turns it on. 



> Anyone of them will solo.



No one in the team is remotively close to 7th Gate Gai in terms of speed. Your trolling is too obvious, Hussain.



> Don't be ridiculous, Itachi is by far the most wanked character in the dome, and has been for years.
> 
> This is hilarious coming from you, the dome's most blatant Yellow Flash Fanboy. You're certainly no better.
> 
> @Icegaze & ARGUS: Izanagi can help him blindside warp/kill 7th Gated Gai after seemingly being killed, this is a technique he has no knowledge on.



However, 7th Gate Gai can knock him out before he phases, or activates Izanagi. That's the problem. We are talking about shinobi who shocked Juubidara with his movement speed and pressured him with taijutsu. Obito is not even remotively close to Juubidara in terms of reaction speed. 



> Nah, itachi used to be the most wanked (he is still severely wanked), but then comes Hashirama, 7th Gate Gai, (D)MS Kakashi.



Says a guy who is the king of Minato wank. 

As for these characters you've mentioned - yeah, they are wanked a lot. Yet, they are canonically among the most powerful shinobi in Narutoverse and very well above alive Minato, by the way. :ignoramus


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2015)

Lol data book says kamui phasing is passive 
Point blank obito who was enhanced was able to phase through Madara attack 

That version of obito though stronger than the one discussed here is clearly not as far above this obito 

When we compare juudara to 7th gate gai 

If obito with some enhancement can avoid juudara point blank , obito has a laugh while phasing through gai aimlessly attacking him

Btw gai already admitted his big attacks won't do shit to obito


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## StarWanderer (Sep 15, 2015)

> Lol data book says kamui phasing is passive



After he turns it on? Yes, it is.

Kamui phasing requires chakra and has a 5 minute limit. Yeah, for sure he will use that ability all the time. 



> Point blank obito who was enhanced was able to phase through Madara attack



He could turn it on right after he stabbed Juubidara. Or he could be in Kamui from the start, phasing through him.



> Btw gai already admitted his big attacks won't do shit to obito



A simple punch to the skull is not a "big attack". We saw what he could do to Kisame with his base 7th Gate punch.



I want you to provide a scan where it is said that high Gates will be useless against Obito.


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## Empathy (Sep 15, 2015)

_Shoten_ Kisame's punch did more damage to base Gai than _Kyomon_ Gai's punch did to base Kisame. But his second punch was obviously pulled to just leave him unconscious, albeit Kisame woke up shortly after, which obviously wasn't planned.


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2015)

he phases on visual contact with gai. its not like gai sees them first 
gai sees them, then moves at them 

obito stays phased for 5 mins. its that simple  

if he has the good sense to be phased initially like u assume against juudara then no reason he wouldn't be in this scenario 

2

big attacks wont work on him. and obviously gai not opting for gates against obito....while obviously fighting him seriously 

wonder why gai didn't just go gates and knock him out clean. yet he had no issues going gates against gedo mazo or madara 

 wonder who knows more about his characters kishi the author or you

going gates gives access to things like hirudora, its utterly foolish to fight someone in 7th gate while being completely unable to use hirudora. 

not like 7th gate gai punch got any feats to suggest its enough to knock out anyone. a weakened kisame is the only bar to use. I wonder if a weakened kisame can actually tank a rasengan to the face.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 15, 2015)

Obito tanked a headbutt [1], and Rasengan to the mask/face [2], which was delivered by the super strong and Kurama-chakra enhanced BM Naruto, and then a headbutt from BM Naruto  without the mask. 

0% chance a normal strike from Gai "knocks him out" even if he had an inkling of a chance at striking him in the head (where his Kamui eye is and sees) before he phases.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 15, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Obito tanked a headbutt [1], and Rasengan to the mask/face [2], which was delivered by the super strong and Kurama-chakra enhanced BM Naruto, and then a headbutt from BM Naruto  without the mask.
> 
> 0% chance a normal strike from Gai "knocks him out" even if he had an inkling of a chance at striking him in the head (where his Kamui eye is and sees) before he phases.



Yet Kakashi could deal damage to him. 

7th Gate Gai made Kisame bleed with his usual punch, after hitting Kisame's torso. He has enough strength in his attacks to knock him out. And he has enough speed, according to what he did in a fight with Juubidara.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 15, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> he phases on visual contact with gai. its not like gai sees them first
> gai sees them, then moves at them
> 
> obito stays phased for 5 mins. its that simple
> ...



He has never shown reaction speed good enough to say that he will be able to react to 7th Gate Gai's movement speed. 

Yeah, because Obito saw him already and turned on his technique. This is a different situation. Gai is in 7th Gate from the start. 

He was unable to move, and you have to prove his durability somehow disappeared.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 15, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Yet Kakashi could deal damage to him.
> 
> 7th Gate Gai made Kisame bleed with his usual punch, after hitting Kisame's torso. He has enough strength in his attacks to knock him out. And he has enough speed, according to what he did in a fight with Juubidara.


With Raikiri? 

Raikiri > Gai's punches by a large stretch.

And this is after the 3 attacks of Naruto, Obito still was conscious after the Raikiri through his heart. 

7th Gated Gai's strike didn't even bruise a fucked up post-Hirudora Kisame, making someone spit up blood is meaningless- that's an injury less severe then a cut. 

BM Naruto Rasengan, two headbutts > 1 strike from Gated Gai


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2015)

So gai in 7th gate is invisible at the start of battle ?
No he will see gai and be phased

Talking to a wall


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 16, 2015)

Speed-wise he should be able to keep up with any of them, I don't see Ei beating him nor do I see Obito being able to physical harm him. I suppose he could Kamui him from the battlefield and SM Naruto is not up to the task of keeping up with Gai. Madara who absorbed Hashirama's senjutsu and as the Juubi Jinchuriki was taken off guard, I don't see Naruto making a difference unless the Kyuubi is involved somehow.

Gai still loses but barely, while Ei isn't clearly on Gai's level, he's good enough to give him a match with SM Naruto and MS Obito as his back up. MS Obito has one of the most broken defensive abilities, he activates his phasing ability unconsciously so all he needs to do is go through the motions of attacking and pick and choose when to attack. This would give Raikage and SM Naruto enough time to amount an offensive. 

Individually, Gai outclasses all the fighters involved battle but there are too many shinobi here for him to fight. If you remove MS Obito from the equation, then he solos without a problem, but MS Obito is a hard-counter for Gai who is solely a taijutsu user.


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## ARGUS (Sep 16, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Don't be ridiculous, Itachi is by far the most wanked character in the dome, and has been for years.


Actually not anymore since he  has a shit ton of haters too, so it evens out 
the most wanked these past couple of weeks are the artiists, rikudo naruto and sasuke, 
and obviously DMS Kakashi and Guy 



> This is hilarious coming from you, the dome's most blatant Yellow Flash Fanboy. You're certainly no better.


Lolllllll 



> @*Icegaze* & *ARGUS*: Izanagi can help him blindside warp/kill 7th Gated Gai after seemingly being killed, this is a technique he has no knowledge on.


Actually no it cant, 
obito still has to strike in-order to  warp Guy off, and based on the fact that Guy was outrunning much faster TSBs in the 7th gate, means that even if obito starts warping guy first, the latter just reacts and either kicks obito in the gut or just evades it 

then theres the fact that Obitos strikes were being blocked by Base Guy despite him not even facing him 


and base  guy even managed to tag Obito through his nunchucks, and prevented himself from gettting warped, thats an amazing feat, 
let alone 7th gate guy who landed clean hits on Juudara and showed speed and reactions that take a dump on SM Minato, who is superior to base minato who is superior to Obito 

which concludes that 7th gate guy is astronomically faster than Obito whhen it comes to reactions and striking speed, 
izanagi only prevents him from dying or getting hurt, but it doesnt change his attacks at all, nor would the speed of his attacks be anywhere near as fast enough to affect guy, so again the only thing izanagi can really do is outlast guys 7th gate,


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## StarWanderer (Sep 16, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> With Raikiri?
> 
> Raikiri > Gai's punches by a large stretch.
> 
> ...



With his punches.



Plus, the mask protected his head when Naruto hit him. And seeing that it could withstand his head-butt, it was durable to some degree. Gai doesnt need to hit his mask in order to beat him (MS Obito's mask doesnt cover all of his head) and his MS mask doesnt have durability feats of his War Arc mask (he could break it with his own hands).  Plus, i dont consider Naruto's head butt to be a powerful attack, compared to what Gai did.

He made him spit blood after hitting his torso. He injured his insides. You can spit blood if one, or few of your organs are injured. And that's *Kisame*. If such a hit connects with Obito's head, his brain most likely gets injured, which results in a knock out. 

Does 7th Gate Gai have the speed to do that before Obito turns on his Kamui phasing and Izanagi? Yes, he does, judging from how he shocked Juubidara with his mere movement speed.

And thanks *ARGUS*, i forgot about that moment.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 16, 2015)

> he activates his phasing ability unconsciously



He could go through Rin because he havent mastered that ability yet. And he could activate that ability after being crushed by that rock. Just saying. Kamui phasing requires chakra and has 5 minute limit. Plus, even if it is automatically activated, it has no feats of activation speed to say that it can be activated before Gai connects with Obito's head. 7th Gate Gai has the speed to hit him before Kamui gets activated. *In fact, 7th Gate Gai's feat with Juubidara proves that he is the fastest shinobi ever except Juubidara, Otsutsuki clan/family members, characters amped by Rikudou's chakra and his 8th Gate self.*


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## StarWanderer (Sep 16, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> So gai in 7th gate is invisible at the start of battle ?
> No he will see gai and be phased
> 
> Talking to a wall



Does he have reaction speed to activate it before 7th Gate Gai connects? Does Kamui's activation speed is fast enough? 

We are talking about a dude who shocked Juubidara with his movement speed.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 16, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> He could go through Rin because he havent mastered that ability yet. And he could activate that ability after being crushed by that rock. Just saying. Kamui phasing requires chakra and has 5 minute limit. Plus, even if it is automatically activated, it has no feats of activation speed to say that it can be activated before Gai connects with Obito's head. 7th Gate Gai has the speed to hit him before Kamui gets activated. *In fact, 7th Gate Gai's feat with Juubidara proves that he is the fastest shinobi ever except Juubidara, Otsutsuki clan/family members, characters amped by Rikudou's chakra and his 8th Gate self.*



The term unconscious means that it happens without thinking, much in the same way you breathe, your heart beats or when you digest food. All of these functions are unconscious and don't require an active thought process. The other thing his can make parts of himself tangible and intangible, that alone is a problem because Gai can potentially waste an attack or two on either Naruto or MS Obito. This would heavily weaken his ability to win.

7th Gated Gai has the speed to win against any of these opponents in 1 vs. 1 match, but the odds are stacked against him if you have team up of Obito, Naruto and Raikage. The possibility of team-work and their unique skillsets are going to end up giving them victory but barely though.


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## Icegaze (Sep 16, 2015)

Considering kamui phasing doesn't require actual thought process 
He doesn't need to 
Or do u want to argue with Kishi the author who specifically mentions this fact in databook 

And has obito a shit tier level compared to juudara casually phase through his point blank attack 


Again wonder why gai didn't just go gates and stomp obito


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## StarWanderer (Sep 16, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> The term unconscious means that it happens without thinking, much in the same way you breathe, your heart beats or when you digest food. All of these functions are unconscious and don't require an active thought process. The other thing his can make parts of himself tangible and intangible, that alone is a problem because Gai can potentially waste an attack or two on either Naruto or MS Obito. This would heavily weaken his ability to win.
> 
> 7th Gated Gai has the speed to win against any of these opponents in 1 vs. 1 match, but the odds are stacked against him if you have team up of Obito, Naruto and Raikage. The possibility of team-work and their unique skillsets are going to end up giving them victory but barely though.



A bullet can go through me before i make a breath, before my heart makes a beat. 

His Kamui phasing couldnt turn on in time to dodge Naruto's Rassengan and Minato's Rassengan. 7th Gate Gai's movement speed is far beyond. 

And there is a chance that he will attack Obito first, so he can win this fight.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 16, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Considering kamui phasing doesn't require actual thought process
> He doesn't need to
> Or do u want to argue with Kishi the author who specifically mentions this fact in databook
> 
> ...



Read what i've wrote above and what i've wrote below.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 16, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> A bullet can go through me before i make a breath, before my heart makes a beat.
> 
> *His Kamui phasing couldnt turn on in time to dodge Naruto's Rassengan and Minato's Rassengan. 7th Gate Gai's movement speed is far beyon*d.
> 
> And there is a chance that he will attack Obito first, so he can win this fight.


Yeah but unlike the heart and lungs, Obito's had solid feats with his sharingan against 4 different shinobi attacking at different times.

Against Minato he turned tangible to attack whereas against Naruto he couldn't due to being the Juubi Jin.


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## Icegaze (Sep 16, 2015)

Thanks ryzukai 
I await his weak come back 

Against minato it's quite simple minato at point blank when he teleports at u something that's >>>>>>>> gai speed 
And then attacks you and you don't know where from is still going to be horribly quicker Than gai attack 


Think about it Sm naruto a shit tier compared to juubito hit juubito thanks to hirashin, something he could never do otherwise 

moving from A to B minato will always be faster than gai . in fact Kishi goes at length to explain the only way to move large distances very quickly is via S/T

Obito also has the fear of phasing through juudara at point blank someone far faster than 7th gate gai


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> Yeah but unlike the heart and lungs, Obito's had solid feats with his sharingan against 4 different shinobi attacking at different times.
> 
> Against Minato he turned tangible to attack whereas against Naruto he couldn't due to being the Juubi Jin.



None of those is even close to 7th Gate Gai in terms of speed. As i said before, judging by feats, 7th Gate Gai is the fastest shinobi in the manga except Godlikes, as i call them. 

And i am talking about a different situation, when Naruto destroyed his mask. Plus, Minato's situation, where Kamui's activation speed wasnt fast enough to phase through Minato's attack. Although it was young Obito.

Anyway, i highly doubt that Obito will be able to activate his intangibility and Izanagi against such a speedster, who can surprise even Juubidara with his mere movement speed.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

> Against minato it's quite simple minato at point blank when he teleports at u something that's >>>>>>>> gai speed



Yet SM Edo Minato couldnt teleport away from Juubidara before losing his hand. 

And this thread has nothing to do with Minato. 

And you keep bringing that "feat" time and time again, yet it was refuted. Are you trolling, Isegaze?

He could become intangible right after stabing Juubidara, or he could be intangible right from the start. He had Kamui, after all.


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## Icegaze (Sep 21, 2015)

Did gai move away to avoid juubito attack ?
Didn't see that scan 

Last I checked juudara swatted his attack away . Don't see how that implies gai can move away from juubito meaning to kill him

Lol so he can become intangible right from the start against juudara but not gai .


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Did gai move away to avoid juubito attack ?
> Didn't see that scan
> 
> Last I checked juudara swatted his attack away . Don't see how that implies gai can move away from juubito meaning to kill him
> ...



7th Gate Gai can easily move out of Juubito's staff swing, judging from his performance against a far faster opponent.

As for the thread, Gai is in 7th Gate from the start. MS Obito has to activate his izanagi and intangibility after the battle starts. The thing is - 7th gate Gai is fast enough to speedblitz Obito before he activates those techniques.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 21, 2015)

Gai can beat SM Naruto and Raikage in 1vs1 fight but he will never be able to touch MS Obito since he can see through his moves and activate Kamui instantly . Since the distance is 50m , FTG users can also through out and prepare Kunais before so they can teleport before geting touched .


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Gai can beat SM Naruto and Raikage in 1vs1 fight but he will never be able to touch MS Obito since he can see through his moves and activate Kamui instantly . Since the distance is 50m , FTG users can also through out and prepare Kunais before so they can teleport before geting touched .



MS Obito cant react to 7th Gate Gai, who shocked Juubidara with his movement speed and pressured him with pure taijutsu. 

FTG is laughable, when 7th Gate Gai can shock such a fast Juubi Jin with his *movement speed*.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 21, 2015)

I am speaking about avoiding with FTG not avoiding using moves . and 
Avoiding using FTG is about 1000 times faster than avoiding using raw moves , go read the manga , I have already explained in another threads .
Plus Obito used Kamui before Madara JJ can touch him , that prove that he can see through his moves , and think plus Kamui activation is instanteneous just like FTG activation .


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## Ghoztly (Sep 21, 2015)

The Raikage gets murderstomped low diff.

However both Naruto and Obito would curbstomp Gai. I like Gai, I really do, and he;s no joke in 7 gates but people really need to stop overwanking him. It seems like ever since he used the 8th gate people are putting him on this pedestal he isn't really on, it's like they forgot the 8th gate kills him lmao.

Suddenly his 7th gate is on the same level? Nope.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> I am speaking about avoiding with FTG not avoiding using moves . and
> Avoiding using FTG is about 1000 times faster than avoiding using raw moves , go read the manga , I have already explained in another threads .
> Plus Obito used Kamui before Madara JJ can touch him , that prove that he can see through his moves , and think plus Kamui activation is instanteneous just like FTG activation .



Go read the manga yourself. FTG requires mental thought. Neither Obito's brain, not Minato's, is fast enough to react to 7th Gate Gai. Minato gets killed, Obito gets killed in the same way - speedblitz. 

As i have already explained that in this thread and many others - *Obito could use Kamui right from the start, when he "stabbed" him. Or, he could use Kamui right after he stabbed him.*

That "feat" proves nothing.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

Ghoztly said:


> The Raikage gets murderstomped low diff.
> 
> However both Naruto and Obito would curbstomp Gai. I like Gai, I really do, and he;s no joke in 7 gates but people really need to stop overwanking him. It seems like ever since he used the 8th gate people are putting him on this pedestal he isn't really on, it's like they forgot the 8th gate kills him lmao.
> 
> Suddenly his 7th gate is on the same level? Nope.



*Suddenly, he shocked Juubidara with his mere movement speed and pressured him with pure taijutsu. Those are manga facts. *

And no one says that 7th Gate Gai is on the same level as 8th Gate Gai.


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## Ghoztly (Sep 21, 2015)

I don't see any injury, or any real struggle, he attempted to blitz him and it barely did anything?


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

Ghoztly said:


> I don't see any injury, or any real struggle, he attempted to blitz him and it barely did anything?



Does it matter that 7th Gate Gai has never injured him? He shocked Juubidara with his movement speed and pressured him with taijutsu. Juubidara couldnt counter-attack him, couldnt hit him before Gai used Hirudora. No one in the manga, except 8th Gate Gai, people with Rikudou's chakra (Naruto and Sasuke) , Juubi Jins and Kaguya, has ever demonstrated such a speed level. 

7th Gate Gai's basic punch injured Kisame's insides, so it doesnt matter that Juubidara wasnt injured - 7th Gate Gai has lots of power in his attacks anyway.


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## Icegaze (Sep 21, 2015)

feats or statement that prove juudara is faster than juubito go on ill wait

stronger hermit power yes. however being far faster was never stated on even implied

still don't see how getting hirudora swatted away means he can move away from juubito attack

 wasn't the juudara gai attacked weaker than the one minato attacked when handicapped

u know a bit of hachibi and shukaku were taken out. incase u forgot 

odd how u can ignore such, oh no wait. not odd at all when u compare minato performance to gai despite

1) stronger juudara faced
2) minato being handicapped

obito easily trolls, seeing as gai had no issue using 7th gate against ET madara yet didn't even attempt the same against obito


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## Trojan (Sep 21, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> feats or statement that prove juudara is faster than juubito go on ill wait
> 
> stronger hermit power yes. however being far faster was never stated on even implied
> 
> still don't see how getting hirudora swatted away means he can move away from juubito attack



It was only stated that Madara's chakra is stronger.

People took that as in madara better at everything since he has more chakra.

Just like how Kisame is stronger and faster than itachi
A is stronger and faster than Minato

and so on.


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## Icegaze (Sep 21, 2015)

the funniest bit is the forgetting madara had some chakra taken. enough to give obito a staff and rikudo powers
and minato was fighting with 1 hand

oh well..reminds me of kisame is so durable he tanked hirudora...
hirudora is so strong it injured kisame....

my fav....A in the scan looks like he touched minato

 yet forgetting another scan shows gai not slowing down and being intercepted by the same character

but oh well

obito phases through and laughs while doing so


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

> feats or statement that prove juudara is faster than juubito go on ill wait



Edo Madara blocked V2 Ei's punch and moved faster than Jinton.

Alive Madara outclassed SM Naruto while being without ayes, effortlessly.

Alive SM Madara dodged a hit from Edo Tobirama, who previously marked Juubito in a close distance - something even KCM Minato couldnt do.

Add there Hermit's powers stronger than Juubito's...

And here you go. Juubidara is faster than Juubito.



> stronger hermit power yes. however being far faster was never stated on even implied



Not "far", but significantly faster. Alive Madara himself has better speed feats than MS/Rinnegan Obito. Add there Edo Hashirama's Sage Mode and Juubi's chakra - yes, Juubidara is faster than Juubito. 



> still don't see how getting hirudora swatted away means he can move away from juubito attack



He shocked someone who is faster than Juubito with his movement speed and pressured that "someone" with his taijutsu.



> wasn't the juudara gai attacked weaker than the one minato attacked when handicapped



How much weaker? Seemingly, a little bit. Anyway, that Juubidara was still faster than Juubito.



> u know a bit of hachibi and shukaku were taken out. incase u forgot



Doesnt make much of a difference.



> odd how u can ignore such, oh no wait. not odd at all when u compare minato performance to gai despite
> 
> 1) stronger juudara faced
> 2) minato being handicapped



1) A little bit stronger Juubidara faced. A little bit.
2) Minato could teleport away, since FTG requires mental thought. Oh wait - he couldnt.



> obito easily trolls, seeing as gai had no issue using 7th gate against ET madara yet didn't even attempt the same against obito



That assumption is based on nothing. 

And Gai has never used 7th Gate against Edo Madara in the same way he used it against Juubidara.

And it was useless, because Obito already saw him. Plus, he had no time to use it, since Obito could use the pause and suck someone into Kamui dimension.


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## Ghoztly (Sep 21, 2015)

Gai is officially the most wanked character, step aside Itachi and Minato and bow down to the new wank god.

Nothing Gai has can defeat Obito, I can't even see how anyone is arguing against this. It's funny, actually, I don't want to sound mean but it is.

That panel used to hype the 7th gate makes me laugh too. He literally rushed in and did absolutely nothing. He didn't touch or injure Madara in the least, there was no struggle, there was no pressure, Gai in the 7th gate posed no threat in the least.  I hate trashing it because he is one of my more liked characters but lets be real.

I doubt Gai is even taking SM Naruto, nevermind Obito! I would give that one to Naruto myself but everyone is talking about Obito right now which makes no sense to me. He would absolutely troll and curbstomp Gai. If people think SM Naruto is losing to Hirudora his durability is being horribly underrated. Ok, lets give him a pass here and lets say he does beat SM Naruto?

Was the intent for Gai to fight all three of them? Good god get the ambulance!


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## Trojan (Sep 21, 2015)

Ghoztly said:


> Gai is officially the most wanked character, step aside Itachi and Minato and bow down to the new wank god.
> 
> Nothing Gai has can defeat Obito, I can't even see how anyone is arguing against this. It's funny, actually, I don't want to sound mean but it is.
> 
> ...



@red.

He is not taking on Narudo. 
SM Narudo was officially the strongest at that point, and Gai and his team were portrayed as being
"in his way" if they gets involved, a burden. That's 7th Gate feat is as saying Hinata is better than Kakashi because she "pushed" Deva back. 

and obviously he is not holding a candle to Obito when HE, BM Narudo, Kakashi, and B couldn't. lol


As for "Itachi and Minato" Kakashi and Hashirama have surpassed them in the wank long time ago.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

> Gai is officially the most wanked character, step aside Itachi and Minato and bow down to the new wank god.
> 
> Nothing Gai has can defeat Obito, I can't even see how anyone is arguing against this. It's funny, actually, I don't want to sound mean but it is.
> 
> ...



Let me provide this, again.



As you can see, Juubidara was shocked by 7th Gate Gai's *movement speed*. Look at his face expression and exclamation mark in a white bubble.

And this, *again*.



As you can see, 7th Gate Gai pressured Juubidara with his taijutsu. Its not about could he do anything to him or not - Juubidara couldnt counter-attack him, couldnt speedblitz him in the same way he speedblitzed SM Minato. 

And Juubidara is many times faster than Obito. In fact, he is even faster than Juubito.

Obito needs to activate Kamui phasing, or Izanagi. 7th Gate Gai is fast enough to speedblitz him before he activates any of these.

And if his Hirudora can do a significant damage to Madara's V3 Susanoo, if his basic punch could make Kisame bleed - then, his hits are strong enough to knock Obito out and then speedblitz both SM Naruto and Ei. Hirudora is powerful enough to knock Ei out cold, even if he uses V2 Raiton armor. 



> That's 7th Gate feat is as saying Hinata is better than Kakashi because she "pushed" Deva back.



Pushed exhausted Nagato's Deva Path, who used CST and fought Naruto before that? 

Inb4 Sasuke-Kakashi's example. 



> and obviously he is not holding a candle to Obito when HE, BM Narudo, Kakashi, and B couldn't. lol



HE didnt open 7th Gate in that fight. And none of those 3 is even remotively comparable to 7th Gate Gai in terms of speed.


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## Icegaze (Sep 21, 2015)

@star
Obito reacted to BM naruto who is clearly faster than A 

So ur entire logic just went down the drain 



Madara has Better reactions than obito cuz he blocked A 

  

Obito easily and casually reacted to someone a lot faster


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## Trojan (Sep 21, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> @star
> Obito reacted to BM naruto who is clearly faster than A
> 
> So ur entire logic just went down the drain
> ...




Madara couldn't even hit obito after he got the Juubi's power and Hashirama's SM.


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## Icegaze (Sep 21, 2015)

gai thought he needed 8th gate to survive 5 BD
BM naruto slapped that away causally

7th gate gai has no feats to suggest he does such 

When on panel he was going to opt for 8th gate 

Juudara didn't use omyoton or chakra arms or any jutsu . No wonder gai performed so well

@hussian lol true 
Point blank as well . Someone who slapped away hirudora you know


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

> @star
> Obito reacted to BM naruto who is clearly faster than A
> 
> So ur entire logic just went down the drain



Oh realy? Maybe you will provide movement speed feats for Obito which surpass those of alive Madara? 

Oh wait, you wont.

Add there Hashirama's Sage Mode, with which Madara could evade an attack from Tobirama who couldmark someone who is a lot faster than Obito.

Add there stronger Hermit powers.

And here you go.

Juubidara is physically faster than Juubito.



> Madara has Better reactions than obito cuz he blocked A



Better *physical speed* feats. I hope you'll get it now.



> Obito easily and casually reacted to someone a lot faster



What about his movement speed feats? Provide them.



> Madara couldn't even hit obito after he got the Juubi's power and Hashirama's SM.



I've refuted this one more then once, but i will do this again.

1) He could use Kamui right after he stabbed him.
2) He could use Kamui to "stab" him. 

How many times will you bring that up?



> Juudara didn't use omyoton or chakra arms or any jutsu . No wonder gai performed so well



Because Gai was in a close distance, pressuring him. 

I am waiting for you to provide a proof that MS Obito will be able to react to 7th gate Gai's speed and activate Kamui and/or Izanagi.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 21, 2015)

Poeple don't make difference between Jutsu's speed and moving speed lol .


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## Ghoztly (Sep 21, 2015)

Are you seriously trying to say raw physical speed is faster than a space-time ninjutsu? Sigh...


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## hbcaptain (Sep 21, 2015)

Don't wast time with him  , you can never change his mind , he thinks with preference not logic .


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## Icegaze (Sep 21, 2015)

@star 
BM naruto is faster than A

OR ARE YOU CLAIMING OTHERWISE ?



Did obito fail to move or choose to use kamui ? Why on earth would he move to block when he can phase through . Ur statement is as retarded as suggesting blocking when you have the option of using hirashin . 

Fact remains 7th gate gai felt he couldn't slap away 5 BD 

BM naruto did and then Kakashi thought it was minato . Burns doesn't it

I guess if minato and gai raced from Suna to konoha gai would get there first if minato already had a mark oh no wait 

No movement feat involved but minato will get there well before gai and have time for coffee and tea . And some food 

S/T >>>>>>>> movement speed always has . No one blocks with the option of ST without feeling like doing so 

Same way Madara blocked A cuz he wanted to not cuz he didn't have time to use susanoo . So are u saying if he had his feat of blocking would be less valid ?


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## StarWanderer (Sep 21, 2015)

> Are you seriously trying to say raw physical speed is faster than a space-time ninjutsu? Sigh...



Faster than Obito's reaction speed.



> BM naruto is faster than A
> 
> OR ARE YOU CLAIMING OTHERWISE ?



BM Naruto is faster than Ei.

*And?*



> Did obito fail to move or choose to use kamui ? Why on earth would he move to block when he can phase through . Ur statement is as retarded as suggesting blocking when you have the option of using hirashin .



The thing is - in SM, alive Madara had better reaction speed than Obito, seeing how he physically easily dodged Edo Tobirama's strike. 

Alive Madara had comparable reaction speed and faster physical movement speed than Obito.

Add there stronger Hermit powers and here you go - Juubidara is significantly faster than Juubito.



> Fact remains 7th gate gai felt he couldn't slap away 5 BD



*And?*



> BM naruto did and then Kakashi thought it was minato . Burns doesn't it



It was not about speed. In 7th Gate, Gai doesnt have the firepower to deflect those 5 TBB's. Burns doesnt it?



> I guess if minato and gai raced from Suna to konoha gai would get there first if minato already had a mark oh no wait



Minato will teleport there, yes.
*
And?*



> No movement feat involved but minato will get there well before gai and have time for coffee and tea . And some food


*
And?*



> S/T >>>>>>>> movement speed always has . No one blocks with the option of ST without feeling like doing so



I asked you to provide feats. Re-read my post up there. You didnt. And you refuted none of the things i've written there.

Let me ask you, again...

*And?*



> Same way Madara blocked A cuz he wanted to not cuz he didn't have time to use susanoo . So are u saying if he had his feat of blocking would be less valid ?



If he used Susanoo? Yes.


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## Matty (Sep 21, 2015)

Idk what this discussion is and why it is 100+ comments deep but it should have ended right from the beginning with: Gai gets stomped


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## Icegaze (Sep 21, 2015)

Sm Alive Madara has better reactions than obito ? 

Did obito fail to phase through tobirama attack 

Ur logic again would mean tobirama clone is faster than the original . Or are u saying a little bit of Sm power and 1 rinnegan >>>>>> 10 tails power in obito ?

If so wow 

And oh by feats BM naruto is faster than 7th gate gai who admitted he needed 8th gate to slap away 5 BD narjto casually slapped away


 what firepower did BM naruto use to slap the Bd away ? Go on I'll wait . What fire power in human form could he muster or did he use ? Pls educate me 

sir troll

So blocking with jutsu means ur slower than if u physically block. Omg 

Guess MS sasuke was too slow to block Danzo straight line punch and had to use susanoo . He must be faster than 3 tails bee who MS sasuke dodged easily 

Love the logic


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## StarWanderer (Sep 22, 2015)

> Sm Alive Madara has better reactions than obito ?
> 
> Did obito fail to phase through tobirama attack



He never phased through Tobirama's attack. And he has never demonstrated such a movement speed. He is a lot slower than Tobirama, who could mark a Juubi Jin and who's strike was easily dodged by SM RT Madara.



> Ur logic again would mean tobirama clone is faster than the original . Or are u saying a little bit of Sm power and 1 rinnegan >>>>>> 10 tails power in obito ?



Nope. Original > clone, canonically. Because the chakra was split in half. Now imagine how fast is the original. 

Alive SM Madara is a lot faster than Rinnegan Obito, that's what i'm saying. Add there *stronger* Hermit powers and here you go - Juubidara is faster than Juubito. 



> And oh by feats BM naruto is faster than 7th gate gai who admitted he needed 8th gate to slap away 5 BD narjto casually slapped away



7th Gate Gai doesnt have the firepower to slap away 5 TBB's. That's why he wanted to activate 8th Gate. It was not about speed.

BM Naruto is not comparable to someone who could shock and pressure Juubidara with his speed.



> what firepower did BM naruto use to slap the Bd away ? Go on I'll wait . What fire power in human form could he muster or did he use ? Pls educate me
> 
> sir troll



His own Bijuu Dama, as i remember?



> So blocking with jutsu means ur slower than if u physically block. Omg



Obito dodged lots of attacks thanks to Kamui phasing. Of course he is physically fast, but he doesnt have movement speed feats comparable to those of alive Madara *without* Sage Mode.



> Guess MS sasuke was too slow to block Danzo straight line punch and had to use susanoo . He must be faster than 3 tails bee who MS sasuke dodged easily
> 
> Love the logic



He was using Susanoo all that time, during Danzo's "death" and after that, when he hit his Susanoo.

Love your fanfics without any canon to back them up. Keep going.


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## Icegaze (Sep 22, 2015)

Tobirama never attacked obito therefore your point has stupid written over it 

Obito isn't fast enough to avoid tobirama who actually never faced him in the manga . What a load of horse shit 

Tobirama needed to be split in half to land a shot on juubito 

BSM naruto could do without getting ripped apart yet said person couldn't touch obito without obito phasing through casually 

But tobirama original has worse feats . Canonically !!!  If u use statements of original > clone . Well the same guy said minato > him . So what the fuck are you on about 

And gai isn't comparable to someone who could slap 5 BD casually something gai needed to use a suicide technique to achieve 

 

BM naruto used speed to slap 5 BD if u don't know that then you are a troll . It was on BM naruto intro . I suggest u read the manga . Naruto didn't use BD to counter 5 separate BD he used it to counter the combined 

 how can u say he doesn't have comparable speed feats when obito never needs to block to avoid an attack 

He also has less speed feats than the likes of hebi sasuke doesn't make him slower now does it ? Obito doesn't need to move to block its that simple 


 sasuke blocked Danzo first basic punch with susanoo . So by your dumbass logic sasuke didn't have the movement speed to block otherwise . If u need scans ask for them .


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## StarWanderer (Sep 22, 2015)

> Tobirama never attacked obito therefore your point has stupid written over it



Juubito is, *by miles*, faster than Obito in every way possible. Yet Tobirama marked him. Also, Tobirama's clone performed a lot better than KCM Minato against an already exploding Gudoudama.



> Obito isn't fast enough to avoid tobirama who actually never faced him in the manga . What a load of horse shit



Yeah - Tobirama has good enough feats to say that he is capable of marking Obito.



> Tobirama needed to be split in half to land a shot on juubito



He didnt want to dodge because he wanted to use kamikaze-style technique. DaWizViz pointed out that Tobirama could dodge him if he wanted too.



> BSM naruto could do without getting ripped apart yet said person couldn't touch obito without obito phasing through casually



He couldnt hit Juubito himself. And i dont remember BSM Naruto attacking Obito - it was BM Naruto.



> But tobirama original has worse feats . Canonically !!! If u use statements of original > clone . Well the same guy said minato > him . So what the fuck are you on about



What the fuck are *YOU* on about? The only thing he stated was Minato's superiority in Shunshin and the fact Minato can teleport people faster than him. Tobirama has never said, *NEVER*, that Minato is generally stronger than him. Open your ayes, take the manga and read it.



> And gai isn't comparable to someone who could slap 5 BD casually something gai needed to use a suicide technique to achieve



SM Naruto isnt too, yet he harmed Juubito with SM-amped rassengan. And 7th gate Gai has enough power to harm either of the team members.



> BM naruto used speed to slap 5 BD if u don't know that then you are a troll . It was on BM naruto intro . I suggest u read the manga . Naruto didn't use BD to counter 5 separate BD he used it to counter the combined



Provide a scan. 

And nevertheless, it doesnt matter. SM Naruto's Rassengan > 5 Bijuu Damas, yeah?



> how can u say he doesn't have comparable speed feats when obito never needs to block to avoid an attack



Movement speed feats. Do you know what it is - movement speed? Should i explain that to you?



> He also has less speed feats than the likes of hebi sasuke doesn't make him slower now does it ?



KCM Naruto couldnt get out of the way of his attack. That's great movement speed feat.



> Obito doesn't need to move to block its that simple



Yeah, i know. And? He is still physically slower than alive Madara *without* Sage Mode, according to feats.



> sasuke blocked Danzo first basic punch with susanoo . So by your dumbass logic sasuke didn't have the movement speed to block otherwise . If u need scans ask for them .



He did, according to his feats and according to the fight with Danzo, which continued after that.


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## Icegaze (Sep 22, 2015)

juubito cant move faster than obito can phase though. same way even juudara couldn't strike obito before he phased. nice try buddy 

not doubting tobirama could attempt a dodge. sadly no way to know if he could really. 

so wait tobirama said minato can teleport people faster than him..but oddly enough cant teleport himself faster than tobirama can?  read what u write 

yet sM Naruto did that thanks to a hirashin mark which was hbcaptain point. when marked a lot easier to hit the target

 do u want the scan...would it matter if gai didn't shit himself and was the one who did it?

yes movement speed is what Naruto used to slap 5 BD something 7th gate gai couldn't do by his own admission. scan below 


[2]


retarded to say BSM Naruto couldn't face juudara when he never failed to..since they never faced. juubito also fought them far more seriously than juudara did. considering the techniques each used

so then obito is faster than A then? by ur logic. and therefore faster than ET madara since obito could pressure KCM Naruto who casually blitz A? is that what ur saying?

lol see above

but wait why mention after. in that scan he had to use susanoo right which is why he used it. I mean that's been ur logic so far

why change it now


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## Icegaze (Sep 22, 2015)

sorry just notice starwanderer cop out was obito used kamui to stab juudara 
 if he is phased in any way he cannot hit you. at all....if he phases his face he cant kick u in the same instance. never happened, if it did or he could. they would have never been able to figure out obito trick. it would be impossible to do so 

so nope. obito used kamui point blank when juudara tried to hit him. so obito here solo's with a cup of tea in hand


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## StarWanderer (Sep 22, 2015)

> juubito cant move faster than obito can phase though. same way even juudara couldn't strike obito before he phased. nice try buddy



Are you sure? That is why he got his mask crushed?

Yeah - nice trolling buddy. I will remind you few things:

1) Obito could become intangible right after stabbing Juubidara.
2) Obito could "stab" him thanks to Kamui intangibility. 



> not doubting tobirama could attempt a dodge. sadly no way to know if he could really.



Since he marked him several times with his hands? Yeah - he could.



> so wait tobirama said minato can teleport people faster than him..but oddly enough cant teleport himself faster than tobirama can? read what u write



Tobirama himself is fast enough to mark him. That's what i am talking about. Because Edo Tobirama was faster than KCM Minato.



> yet sM Naruto did that thanks to a hirashin mark which was hbcaptain point. when marked a lot easier to hit the target



Gai isnt marked. And you havent refute what i wrote earlier. Gai wanted to use 8th Gate because only in 8th Gate he has enough firepower to deflect Bijuu Damas. He cant touch them by himself in 7th Gate. And Gai isnt marked here. In fact, there is no Hiraishin user in this thread.



> do u want the scan...would it matter if gai didn't shit himself and was the one who did it?



Do you know what doesnt matter? Your trolling and fanfic - that's what doesnt matter. The fact he wanted to use 8th gate doesnt prove anything. In 7th Gate, he doesnt have the firepower to deflect Bijuu Damas. He cant  touch them without getting seriously injured. Touching Bijuu Damas =/= touching Juubi Jin's body which can be injured by senjutsu and taijutsu. 



> yes movement speed is what Naruto used to slap 5 BD something 7th gate gai couldn't do by his own admission. scan below



Naruto had BM cloak, he could touch Bijuu Damas. Gai couldnt. He wanted to use 8th Gate because only with Evening Elephant and his speed he could deflect them.



> retarded to say BSM Naruto couldn't face juudara when he never failed to..since they never faced. juubito also fought them far more seriously than juudara did. considering the techniques each used



He faced a slower Juubito, who took him out along with Sasuke. 

As for Juubidara using his serious techniques after Gai was in a close distance with him in 7th Gate - good like using them when you are pressured with 7th Gate Gai's taijutsu.



> so then obito is faster than A then? by ur logic. and therefore faster than ET madara since obito could pressure KCM Naruto who casually blitz A? is that what ur saying?



Casually? Ei was tossing him around until he used his top Shunshin.

Anyway, alive Madara is faster than Edo Madara. Not to mention KCM Naruto was fresh in his fight with Ei, while getting himself kicked by other Juubi Jins, with whom both Kakashi and Gai could fight.



> but wait why mention after. in that scan he had to use susanoo right which is why he used it. I mean that's been ur logic so far
> 
> why change it now



Obito has no movement speed feats to say that he is above alive Madara in that department. Alive SM Madara is faster than Obito by feats. Add there stronger Hermit powers and yeah - Juubidara >>> Juubito in terms of speed.



> sorry just notice starwanderer cop out was obito used kamui to stab juudara
> if he is phased in any way he cannot hit you. at all....if he phases his face he cant kick u in the same instance. never happened, if it did or he could. they would have never been able to figure out obito trick. it would be impossible to do so
> 
> so nope. obito used kamui point blank when juudara tried to hit him. so obito here solo's with a cup of tea in hand



He could become intangible right after stabbing him. And you havent refuted that. Or, Juubidara could be shocked at Juubito attacking him, but Juubito could use Kamui phasing to "stab" him.


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## Icegaze (Sep 22, 2015)

his mask got crushed cuz it was either that or phase back into the real world and die by bijuudama. or do u forget the actual situation? such a troll 

no proof several markings. could be tags due to being ripped in half. u know since his ET has tags inside it. otherwise why on keep shit blitzing juubito forever. considering he could In ur mind touch juubito 6 times while only getting hit once

so in 7th gate gai doesn't have the speed to slap them away? ok...I get u. cuz BM Naruto did and does

Naruto didn't have BM cloak he was in his humanoid form. or are u saying said form is more durable than 7th gate gai?

so juubito had sharigan juudara didn't. go back and feel free to read how killer bee said its sharingan that increased yugito speed and reactions to the point she could tag him. 

yes casually. A used his top speed and got outpaced comically 

wait so now u agree KCM was tired. if so why the fuck have u ever tried to claim base gai is faster than A cuz he was able to keep up with KCM? do u deny having ever mentioned that?

sharingan says otherwise to their reaction speed. despite rinnegan being an evolution kishi still goes on about sharingan being the reason the neo paths speed and perception increased 

 excuses. if he was intangible right after stabbing juudara then his hand would simply phase through juudara and he would loose connection with juudara and the chakra he was trying to rip out. so its not like his hand could have already been phased. 

however whats obvious in the panel is that he used kamui when juudara attacked him hence why juudara pointed it out

how could obito be phased before juudara attacked and juudara wont notice he cant feel obito arm inside his gut?


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## StarWanderer (Sep 22, 2015)

> his mask got crushed cuz it was either that or phase back into the real world and die by bijuudama. or do u forget the actual situation? such a troll



He also got his hand harmed by Rassengan. And none of those things were as fast as 7th Gate Gai, who could shock Juubidara with his movement speed.



> no proof several markings. could be tags due to being ripped in half. u know since his ET has tags inside it. otherwise why on keep shit blitzing juubito forever. considering he could In ur mind touch juubito 6 times while only getting hit once



Even if it is true, he still marked him. He performed better than KCM Minato, who couldnt do anything to Juubito in a close distance. Nevertheless, that has nothing to do with this debate.



> so in 7th gate gai doesn't have the speed to slap them away? ok...I get u. cuz BM Naruto did and does



Gai cant touch Bijuu Damas without getting injured. Am i need to repeat that more than once so you can understand me?



> Naruto didn't have BM cloak he was in his humanoid form. or are u saying said form is more durable than 7th gate gai?



Are you blind? Naruto was clearly in his BM cloak. In KCM, he could touch Bijuu Dama. Gai doesnt have feats to suggest that he can touch Bijuu Dama without being harmed.



> so juubito had sharigan juudara didn't. go back and feel free to read how killer bee said its sharingan that increased yugito speed and reactions to the point she could tag him.



Movement speed? Sharingan can amp movement speed? Provide the scan, please. 



> wait so now u agree KCM was tired. if so why the fuck have u ever tried to claim base gai is faster than A cuz he was able to keep up with KCM? do u deny having ever mentioned that?



First - that has nothing to do with this debate, since here, it is 7th Gate Gai. Second, i dont remember that. Can you provide proof?



> excuses. if he was intangible right after stabbing juudara then his hand would simply phase through juudara and he would loose connection with juudara



Um... Connecting with him right after that hit? Or making his body part intangible while his hand was in his torso?



> and the chakra he was trying to rip out. so its not like his hand could have already been phased.



He tried that after Juubidara's predictable counter-strike.



> however whats obvious in the panel is that he used kamui when juudara attacked him hence why juudara pointed it out



Juubidara pointed out the nature of his ability. That's it. That doesnt prove anything.



> how could obito be phased before juudara attacked and juudara wont notice he cant feel obito arm inside his gut?



How do you know he didnt notice his phased arm? Or dont you think that he could make all his body parts intangible except his hand? It is pretty much predictable that Juubidara will try to counter-attack him after that stab.


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## Icegaze (Sep 22, 2015)

u mean a rasengan that was wrapped with kamui the same time he phased ? Lol Yh gai is faster than that 


Lol yes he marked juubito by getting ripped . Minato never faced that situation by the time he could benefit from ET body juubito splitting him in half would kill him for good 

Why can't gai touch it ? Scan of where that's said ? go on show me 

So ur excuse is gai body is afraid of Bd . Ok why not go 7th gate and shoot 5 hirudora at the bijuu before they could fire it ?

Reaction speed and yes if I react quicker I'll be quicker to move therefore quicker to strike than my enemy . It's common sense . 

Ok who is faster base gai or A. Answer me plain and simple 

 if juudara knew his arm was phased he would t attack since he knows he can't hit him 

Who attacks obito when he is already phased with a straight forward attack ?


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## hbcaptain (Sep 22, 2015)

Tobirama never fought a reel Juubi Jinchuriki with all his mind , Juubito was already marked so .

Plus bestial Juubito don't see around him , don't care about ennemies attacking him , and more than that he Even blitzed himself . Tobirama was able to place his tags for two reasons :
1-The GudoDama's changing form are too slow , the bestial Juubito version didn't master it well unlike his reel version who fought KCM Minato .
2-Bestial Juubito don't care about Tobirama's moves ,even if he incredibly easily perceive him , he don't try to block him , othewise , Tobirama will not only beeing striked in 1 fragment of second but he will never be able to even touch the all-mind Juubito wihtout his marking .


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## StarWanderer (Sep 23, 2015)

> u mean a rasengan that was wrapped with kamui the same time he phased ? Lol Yh gai is faster than that



Since Juubidara was shocked by his movement speed? Yeah, most likely.



> Lol yes he marked juubito by getting ripped . Minato never faced that situation by the time he could benefit from ET body juubito splitting him in half would kill him for good



Dude, he could mark Juubito in such a close distance, when he attempted to tear off his hand. But he couldnt. Tobirama could. Furthermore, Juubito attached Gudoudama to him without him even noticing. 



> Why can't gai touch it ? Scan of where that's said ? go on show me



It is logical. Gai doesnt have any chakra cloak on his body. 



> So ur excuse is gai body is afraid of Bd . Ok why not go 7th gate and shoot 5 hirudora at the bijuu before they could fire it ?



Maybe because he cant make 5 Hirudora's due to him being exhausted a bit at that moment?



> Reaction speed and yes if I react quicker I'll be quicker to move therefore quicker to strike than my enemy . It's common sense .



EVen if he cant react, it doesnt mean he will be able to move quick enough to protect himself. Obito is physically slower than alive Madara, let alone SM Madara. Juubidara's Hermit powers are stronger than Juubito's. So, here you go. The common sense is - Juubidara >>> Juubito in terms of speed.



> Ok who is faster base gai or A. Answer me plain and simple



It's hard to say, judging from their feats. The only thing i can say is that base Gai is not faster than V2 Ei.



> if juudara knew his arm was phased he would t attack since he knows he can't hit him



Juubidara didnt know about his Kamui power. Obito could stab him, make his upper body intangible, evade Juubidara's counter-attack and then absorb his chakra. 



> Who attacks obito when he is already phased with a straight forward attack ?



Juubito didnt know about his powers. And Obito could make his upper body intangible. Because Juubidara counter-attacking him is pretty much predictable move.

As for 7th gate Gai, he is fast enough to knock Obito out before he phases and activates Izanagi.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 23, 2015)

> Tobirama never fought a reel Juubi Jinchuriki with all his mind , Juubito was already marked so .



In terms of physical stats, such as speed, it was the same Juubito who teared off Minato's arm.



> Plus bestial Juubito don't see around him , don't care about ennemies attacking him , and more than that he Even blitzed himself . Tobirama was able to place his tags for two reasons :
> 1-The GudoDama's changing form are too slow , the bestial Juubito version didn't master it well unlike his reel version who fought KCM Minato .
> 2-Bestial Juubito don't care about Tobirama's moves ,even if he incredibly easily perceive him , he don't try to block him , othewise , Tobirama will not only beeing striked in 1 fragment of second but he will never be able to even touch the all-mind Juubito wihtout his marking .



He was able to put a mark on him because:

1) He reacted to his movement speed.
2) He reacted to his striking speed.
3) He was fast enough to mark him before his body was destroyed.

As for your fanfic:

1) There was only one difference - the ability to cancel all ninjutsu, including Edo Tensei. That's all. Plus, Juubito could form Gudoudama in that form during Hokage's talk about how Juubito is stronger than Hashirama and only then attack them. That's logical, since we cant see Juubito forming Gudoudama's during his attack.
2) Tobirama reacted to his speed. Minato could mark Juubito when he was in a close distance, when Juubito attempted to tear off his arm. But he couldnt. And that was KCM Minato.

Tobirama is faster than KCM Minato. Base Minato, in terms of his own movement speed and reflexes, is not even remotively comparable to prime Tobirama.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2015)

> That's logical, since we cant see Juubito forming Gudoudama's during his attack.



Kishi wanted to make a badass scene , that's all , just like KCM Naruto he didn't reacted to Juubito's Shunshin but GudoDama's changing form wich is pretty slow , if not prove it . We have already seen that it's slow by manga facts , and please don't talk about full-mind Juubito , there is a very huge difference .




Please show me the piercing GudoDama , I can't see it .


Then the next page : , Hashi clone and Tobirama both striked by a piercing form Gudo Dama :


You have nothing to say about that , all manga feats prove that Tobirama was able to react only because of the slowness of the GudoDama's changing form , just like KCM Naruto .


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## Icegaze (Sep 23, 2015)

well juudara failed to hit obito point blank so nope he isnt faster

u mean a better stronger juubito who can neg diff even ET without them healing yh sure. of course minato got out. but nothing says he couldnt have touched juubito if he stayed there to get split in half. only issue is he wont recover

again different juubito though. so dont get ur point

control of a bijuu makes said person alot stronger. one could take BM naruto vs his KCM version

or even both KCM version where when he fought obito he could use human sized BD yet before it wasnt somethign he could do 

gai does have an aura on his body though. 

 so he cant make 5 hirudora but was so exhausted he wanted to opt for 8th gate? yh 

and common sense will dictate uncontrolled juubito in terms of everything<<<<<<<,controlled juubito

but u have no issues denying that 

 so base gai is as fast as A based on what? since u said its hard to say? tell me? pls bring up KCM naruto...what evidence do u have 

cuz if its hard to say then its just as hard to say who is physically faster obito or A. 

lol juudara said u used ur original power. how wont he know obito MS when he trained bloody obito?? ur troll is real 

if obito becomes intangible so does his hand inside madara. therefore he could only have done it when madara was mid attack 

lol juudara knew everything there is to know about kamui. i mean the guy even rips kakashi eye and uses kamui. with no issues

lol fan fic. when juudara wasnt. excuses for gai mostly is all u have been able to provide

yet if i bring up amaterasu his aura becomes relevant ? suddenly?


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## Icegaze (Sep 23, 2015)

anyone with more control over their chakra will be faster naturally 

KCM naruto has already proved this through his own usage of shunshin 

but yup why not deny that when tryign to make a point...

well i do like the fact that feat wise minato eclipses tobirama in terms of reactions yet why not deny that. 

double standard much


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## StarWanderer (Sep 24, 2015)

> Kishi wanted to make a badass scene , that's all , just like KCM Naruto he didn't reacted to Juubito's Shunshin but GudoDama's changing form wich is pretty slow , if not prove it . We have already seen that it's slow by manga facts , and please don't talk about full-mind Juubito , there is a very huge difference .



There is no difference at all as far as speed goes. And yeah - Kishimoto seemingly wanted to make a badass scene.



> Please show me the piercing GudoDama , I can't see it .



He made that Gudoudama while Hiruzen, Hashirama and Tobirama talked about his power, while Madara said he dont want to wait anymore and Naruto said "eh?".



> You have nothing to say about that , all manga feats prove that Tobirama was able to react only because of the slowness of the GudoDama's changing form , just like KCM Naruto .



I did, more than once. 

Manga proves that Juubito moved at him and stroke him with his Gudoudama, which he used like a cold weapon. Tobirama reacted to his movement speed (he moved to him) and his striking speed (he was holding Gudoudama with his hand, with which he "stroke" him - see the scan). In other words, he was faster than KCM Minato, because when Minato had such a chance of marking Juubito, he couldnt do that.


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## StarWanderer (Sep 24, 2015)

> well juudara failed to hit obito point blank so nope he isnt faster



He could become intangible right after stabbing him, so how that proves anything?



> u mean a better stronger juubito who can neg diff even ET without them healing yh sure. of course minato got out. but nothing says he couldnt have touched juubito if he stayed there to get split in half. only issue is he wont recover



KCM Minato was in a close distance and could do the same thing Tobirama did - react to his striking speed and mark him, which Tobirama did. But instead, he got his arm teared off.



> again different juubito though. so dont get ur point



Let me know when you have a proof that there is a speed difference between "mindless" Juubito and "not mindless" Juubito.



> control of a bijuu makes said person alot stronger. one could take BM naruto vs his KCM version



Juubi took control over Obito's body. But the thing is - the chakra was stable, and Jinchuuriki's form was the same. 

So i am waiting for you to provide a proof that there is a speed difference between mindless one and not mindless one.



> or even both KCM version where when he fought obito he could use human sized BD yet before it wasnt somethign he could do



Nice, how does that prove anything in our debate?



> gai does have an aura on his body though.



An aura of vaporising sweat, which can deflect things only during 7th Gate's activation.



> so he cant make 5 hirudora but was so exhausted he wanted to opt for 8th gate? yh



He could have doubts about himself being capable of creating 5 Hirudora's just in time to deflect them all. And i will remind you one thing - at first, he couldnt finish EE due to the pain it causes to his body.



> and common sense will dictate uncontrolled juubito in terms of everything<<<<<<<,controlled juubito



JInchuuriki's chakra was stable, thus under control. Juubi's control. 



> but u have no issues denying that



The only difference was his ability to cancel jutsu's.



> so base gai is as fast as A based on what? since u said its hard to say? tell me? pls bring up KCM naruto...what evidence do u have



His confrontations with Rinnegan Obito.



> cuz if its hard to say then its just as hard to say who is physically faster obito or A.



Obito has slightly faster striking speed than Ei due to his performance against KCM Naruto, when he could create mini Bijuu Dama, thus seemingly wasnt weak anymore.



> lol juudara said u used ur original power. how wont he know obito MS when he trained bloody obito?? ur troll is real



Yeah, it was my mistake. However, that doesnt refute the possibility of his to become intangible right after stabbing him. And he absorbed Juubidara's chakra after stabbing him.



> if obito becomes intangible so does his hand inside madara. therefore he could only have done it when madara was mid attack



He doesnt need to become completely intangible. And he absorbed Juubi's chakra before Juubidara's attack.



> lol juudara knew everything there is to know about kamui. i mean the guy even rips kakashi eye and uses kamui. with no issues



That doesnt refute what i've written before that. And Obito absorbed his chakra before that strike.



> lol fan fic. when juudara wasnt. excuses for gai mostly is all u have been able to provide



Excuses for Obito - that's what you provide most of the time. 



> yet if i bring up amaterasu his aura becomes relevant ? suddenly?



When did i say that his aura can protect him from Amaterasu? He can dodge it with no issues.

The thing about this debate is - Obito absorbed Juubidara's chakra. EVen if he reacted to him and made himself intangible just in time to dodge him, that doesnt count because he absorbed Juubidara's chakra. At that moment Juubidara had Juubi's chakra and Hashirama's SM chakra. This is MS Obito, who doesnt have all of those.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 24, 2015)

Only the last line of ur second post is relevant 

So then if obito absorbed those chakras like u happy to state then 

7th gate gai fought a weaker juudara than minato did . 

Since u know obito absorbed Sm chakra and all other sorts of things u mentioned in ur last post 

it's fun debating with u


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 24, 2015)

The height of absurdity is that Madara JJ wasn't even serious agaisnt 7 gates Gai :

Look at how easily he stopped Hirutora using GudoDama's sword . Are you saying that he couldn't do it before ...


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 24, 2015)

> Only the last line of ur second post is relevant



Not realy.



> So then if obito absorbed those chakras like u happy to state then



Yes, he did.



> 7th gate gai fought a weaker juudara than minato did .



Yes, a little bit weaker. However, that does not refute anything, especially when Edo Minato was amped by Sage Mode. Especially when KCM Minato got his arm teared off by a weaker Juubito.



> Since u know obito absorbed Sm chakra and all other sorts of things u mentioned in ur last post
> 
> it's fun debating with u



However, that doesnt refute what i wrote before.



> The height of absurdity is that Madara JJ wasn't even serious agaisnt 7 gates Gai :
> :
> 
> Look at how easily he stopped Hirutora using GudoDama's sword . Are you saying that he couldn't do it before ...



Yes, he couldnt. The fact he stopped it doesnt mean it was easy. Especially when he has been flying away already (look at his hair and consider the fact that he didnt cut Gai down, although he stood there, doing nothing).

Also, take a look at his face expressions there.

Juubidara toying with him is nothing more than your fanfic until you can provide a good irrefutable arguement.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Only the last line of ur second post is relevant
> 
> So then if obito absorbed those chakras like u happy to state then
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter if he took 99% of Judara's chakra, if he's still in the mode his speed remains the same.

Naruto expending truck loads of chakra with bijuudama and shunshin didn't look to decrease the speed of his BSM, if he exited the mode his speed would have decreased. 

Every version of Obito is slower than Judara, seeing as his best speed was being perceived by BSM Naruto & Curse Seal Susano Sasuke and he was forced to block with Goudama more than once, against ranged and melee-based attacks from these characters- despite being hundreds of meters above the landscape with flight advantage. 

Judara, on the other hand, requires Naruto and Sasuke to be transcended into demi gods with upgraded Susano & Cloaked forms granting them far more speed and power- to compete with this weakened form of Madara you're suggesting he was in, and he still managed to escape them after reacting to a seemingly instantaneous S/T blitz by them. 

Is it your logic that Jubito can react to Rikudo Sasuke & RSM Naruto Amenotejikaraing him right to their position and extending their arms? Because Judara did. 

Obito could've quite easily had Kamui active right after he stuck his arm in him, not that that matters- if he did react with Kamui to avoid Judara's casual hand movement- what the fuck does that prove? 

Six Paths Chakra Obito's Kamui can activate before Judara's casual hand movement touches him? Congratulations Rikudo Rinnegan Obito, a clearly transcended shinobi compared to MS Obito. 

This isn't Six Paths Chakra Obito with Rinnegan, this is MS Obito we're debating here. Using those feats is wrong, that's a completely different version of a shinobi, who is much stronger and faster who has a far more dedicated and focused battle mentality, compared to the arrogant, sloppy and dismissive MS Obito who got blindsided and surprised attacked at every turn because half of him didn't even want to fight.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 24, 2015)

strarwandered said:
			
		

> Yes, he couldnt. The fact he stopped it doesnt mean it was easy. Especially when he has been flying away already (look at his hair and consider the fact that he didnt cut Gai down, although he stood there, doing nothing).


It's only because of Hirutora power , if he used his black sword earlier , it would be a One clean Shot , and he can do it .

Even using Hirutora and his full speed , he can't deviate BD like did humanoid BM Naruto . He is much slower than him .


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 24, 2015)

So then obito was a little bit stronger when he phased through juudara point blank 

So 7th gate gai a slower character would be phased through easily


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 24, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> It doesn't matter if he took 99% of Judara's chakra, if he's still in the mode his speed remains the same.
> 
> Naruto expending truck loads of chakra with bijuudama and shunshin didn't look to decrease the speed of his BSM.
> 
> ...



Do you agree that 7th Gate Gai has a chance of speedblitzing Obito before he uses Kamui and Izanagi?


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 24, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> It's only because of Hirutora power , if he used his black sword earlier , it would be a One clean Shot , and he can do it .
> 
> Even using Hirutora and his full speed , he can't deviate BD like did humanoid BM Naruto . He is much slower than him .



Good luck to him using Gudoudama when he is pressured by 7th gate Gai's taijutsu. He couldnt cut him down with his staff. because if he could, he would have done it earlier, when Gai ran into a close distance with him. 

Oh, again, that arguement. I advice you to read my late posts about that. Not only he cant touch Bijuu Dama without getitng injured, like BM Naruto can with his chakra cloak - 5 Hirudoras can exhaust him a lot, to the point he wont be able to deflect them all due to pain. Remember what happened when he used EE for the first time?


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> So then obito was a little bit stronger when he phased through juudara
> 
> So 7th gate gai a slower character would be phased through easily



TB's chakra and Hashi's senjutsu chakra = Obito became a *little bit* stronger?


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 24, 2015)

> Good luck to him using Gudoudama when he is pressured by 7th gate Gai's taijutsu. He couldnt cut him down with his staff. because if he could, he would have done it earlier, when Gai ran into a close distance with him.


Iam not talking about GudoDamas but the black sword all Juubi Jinchurikis with all their mind can use , it's not the same as the black spheres , he can easily strike Gai with it just like he did against Hirotora , he was just playing with him .



> Oh, again, that arguement. I advice you to read my late posts about that. Not only he cant touch Bijuu Dama without getitng injured, like BM Naruto can with his chakra cloak - 5 Hirudoras can exhaust him a lot, to the point he wont be able to deflect them all due to pain. Remember what happened when he used EE for the first time?


Euuuh , no BM Naruto didn't use 5 Shunshins , just one , so one horizontal Hirudora is more than enough dude if he was enough fast. ^^


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 24, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Do you agree that 7th Gate Gai has a chance of speedblitzing Obito before he uses Kamui and Izanagi?


I will concede that it is a possibility, depending on the start distance.

I do not think Six Path Chakra Rinnegan Obito phasing through Judara's casual hand movement has any place in this debate, because this is MS Obito.



> Good luck to him using Gudoudama when he is pressured by 7th gate Gai's taijutsu. He couldnt cut him down with his staff. because if he could, he would have done it earlier, when Gai ran into a close distance with him.


Unlike the others I agree with this. I think Judara was dumbfounded that Gai appeared in front of him so quickly, and Gai's taijutsu skill was great enough to scatterbrain Judara into a mindless defensive mode of avoiding being hit. 

If you actually force him to block not once, but twice, I don't see how that's not a spectacular speed feature. This is basically what Minato was trying to do, keep Judara busy while Kakashi warped Obito, but he failed because Judara slashed him instantly and then used his body parts to stop Obito from being retaken by them. 

We have single clashes between ninja in-close that people use as features for taijutsu & speed all the time, despite the possibility that one of the shinobi may well just be on the auto pilot defensive like Deva Path was with Hinata. 

Hell, I use the feat of Hashirama & Madara clashing with weapons in their fight all the time to show they are equal in speed, despite the fact that Hashirama did not want to kill him and chose to then go all out once Madara was firing bijuudama at him- well after their shunshin clash initially. Hashirama easily could have been faster than Madara and was simply auto pilot CQCing him because Madara was coming at him trying to kill him. 

Another good example is VOTE2 initially, SPBM Naruto may well have been simply reacting and moving in accordance to Sasuke's attacks blocking them, he certainly could have been faster than his PS but all we saw was equal clashes between fists and swords/tails. But we do not assume that SPBM Naruto is faster than Sasuke's PS because neither blitzed the other. 

Why should this feat be any different? We have to take Judara blocking as an indication that Gai had enough speed & skill to force him to block, or we have reason to question basically every CQC exchange in the manga and that's not good.


----------



## Trojan (Sep 24, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Good luck to him using Gudoudama when he is pressured by 7th gate Gai's taijutsu. He couldnt cut him down with his staff. because if he could, he would have done it earlier, when Gai ran into a close distance with him.



ET Madara can't kill the 5 Kages because if he can, he would have done so. 

JJ SM Madara can't kill Minato because if he can, he would have done so.


7th Gate Gai CAN perfectly hit obito, but he CHOOSE not to do so because
what's wrong with being a dick.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 24, 2015)

lol 
yh odd how gai in 7th gate fought obito yet no panels of him touching him

unless maybe he only decided to focus on madara..though he did get beat up 

really strange that this so called person can pressure juudara yet ET madara fighting bee and ga didnt get wasted

 how odd


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 24, 2015)

> ET Madara can't kill the 5 Kages because if he can, he would have done so.
> 
> JJ SM Madara can't kill Minato because if he can, he would have done so.
> 
> ...



I lol'ed. 

How many people in the Battledome can take you seriously?



> lol
> yh odd how gai in 7th gate fought obito yet no panels of him touching him



Gai has never, ever, fought MS/Rinnegan Obito with 7th Gate in the same way he fought Juubidara.



> really strange that this so called person can pressure juudara yet ET madara fighting bee and ga didnt get wasted
> 
> how odd



Let me know when you get an answer from Kishimoto about what happened there. Because all of that was off-panel.


----------



## Trojan (Sep 24, 2015)

> How many people in the Battledome can take you seriously?



Don't know, and don't care. That was just to show how Utterly Naive your logic is.


----------



## Clowe (Sep 24, 2015)

Dismiss him already, he lost this debate in the first few pages, but keeps foolishly hanging on to it.

Star, dude just
:letgo


----------



## Tarot (Sep 24, 2015)

8 Pages?
kek


----------



## Nikushimi (Sep 25, 2015)

7th Gate Gai loses to any of these three individually.

As a team, they completely stomp him.


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 25, 2015)

> Don't know, and don't care. That was just to show how Utterly Naive your logic is.



Bringing out completely different examples = showing how haive my logic is. Hussain's trolling is such a trollish trolling. 



> Dismiss him already, he lost this debate in the first few pages, but keeps foolishly hanging on to it.
> 
> Star, dude just



Can you show me where exactly i've lost this debate?



> 7th Gate Gai loses to any of these three individually.
> 
> As a team, they completely stomp him.



Let me know when either of them can shock Juubi Jin with movement speed and pressure him with taijutsu.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 25, 2015)

Let me know when gai can hit a juubi Jin and send him crashing to the floor 

 

the guy was getting beating up by ET madara 

Outliner is outliner


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 25, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Let me know when gai can hit a juubi Jin and send him crashing to the floor
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He shocked him with his movement speed and pressured him with taijutsu. That is enough.

Are you sure? Have you asked Kishimoto himself what happened there? Because it was off-panel.


----------



## RBL (Sep 25, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Let me know when gai can hit a juubi Jin and send him crashing to the floor
> 
> 
> 
> ...



even bee said he thought gai was just acting tought, momment later gai sent madara flying along with his susanoo, you can't understime the power of youth, or compare gai with the other shitty gokages


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 25, 2015)

A and MS Obito definitely solo.

Naruto can also potentially solo.

All 3 of them against Gai ? You must really hate Gai fandom.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 25, 2015)

What I don't get is how pressuring someone who isn't good at taijufsu is this noteworthy 

As I recall naruto after hearing senjutsu works was perfectly fine saying he will try katas against a juubi Jin

Clearly if juubito stuck to taijufsu he would have had his ass handed to him . 

saying he pressured juudara therefore he kills everyone weaker before they can blink would be the same as saying it took juubi jins to damage minato since well no one else on panel did


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 26, 2015)

> A and MS Obito definitely solo.



Not even close.

In before you providing Ei's statement, that proves nothing at all and was refuted lots of times.



> Naruto can also potentially solo.







> All 3 of them against Gai ? You must really hate Gai fandom.



Oh, that trolling of yours... 



> What I don't get is how pressuring someone who isn't good at taijufsu is this noteworthy



He has lots of taijutsu feats, he is super-fast and he has many years of experience. Madara Uchiha isnt good at taijutsu? Realy? 

And what about his speed?



> As I recall naruto after hearing senjutsu works was perfectly fine saying he will try katas against a juubi Jin


*
And?*



> Clearly if juubito stuck to taijufsu he would have had his ass handed to him .



Juubito could speedblitz anyone there in 1 on 1 fight. And that's someone who is slower than Juubidara.



> saying he pressured juudara therefore he kills everyone weaker before they can blink would be the same as saying it took juubi jins to damage minato since well no one else on panel did



Not everyone. 

Anyway, there is a chance for 7th Gate Gai to win if he attacks Obito first. He can potentially speedblitz him.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 26, 2015)

Well ur tone changed abit 
He isn't speed blitzing someone who can phase through without trying or warning 

The others he kills 1 on 1 

3 vs 1 . No chance it's that simple 

Since 1 thing is painfully obvious he has no feats to suggest a regular punch would do any damage at all to these guys


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 26, 2015)

^ don't feed the troll.


----------



## ScottofFury (Sep 26, 2015)

It is quite ridiculously that some people still think Ei and SM Naruto stand a chance against Gai. Gai could beat both of them at the same time. And then some think Obito rapes/stomps Gai lol ...... He simple counters him, by being intangibly. If Gai uses his nunchucks, keeping his distance and making Obito waste Kamui Gai wins. Obito without Kamui gets prison raped by a Gated Gai. 

I think Gai could do it, not without knowledge and taking out Ei and Naruto straight away.


----------



## Trojan (Sep 26, 2015)

ScottofFury said:


> *It is quite ridiculously that some people still think Ei and SM Naruto stand a chance against Gai*. Gai could beat both of them at the same time. And then some think Obito rapes/stomps Gai lol ...... He simple counters him, by being intangibly. If Gai uses his nunchucks, keeping his distance and making Obito waste Kamui Gai wins. Obito without Kamui gets prison raped by a Gated Gai.
> 
> I think Gai could do it, not without knowledge and taking out Ei and Naruto straight away.



Quite the opposite. 
It's ridiculous how people think 7th Gate Gai stands a chance.


----------



## Matty (Sep 26, 2015)

I'm amazed this thread is still going. This is the 3rd time I will say Gai gets stomed


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

Gai get severly stomped , he can win against SM Naruto or Ei in individual battle , but never the two at the same , if we add MS Obito , then it's clearly becoming a no match . 

Plus MS Obito can clearly wins against Gai without teammates .


----------



## ScottofFury (Sep 26, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Gai get severly stomped , he can win against SM Naruto or Ei in individual battle , but never the two at the same , if we add MS Obito , then it's clearly becoming a no match .
> 
> Plus MS Obito can clearly wins against Gai without teammates .



Why doesn't Gai beat the duo at the same time? Two 7 Gate combos gg.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

He can't , he is already Ko after one combo .


----------



## Trojan (Sep 26, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> He can't , he is already Ko after one combo .



Even if it landed on them, it's not talking shit out to begin with.


----------



## ScottofFury (Sep 26, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> He can't , he is already Ko after one combo .



Gai uses the 7th and 8th Gate pretty well while literally not even 10 minutes before he is needed Lee to hold him up he is that exhausted. 

A healthy Gai and do two Hidoras and keep going. 



Hussain said:


> Even if it landed on them, it's not talking shit out to begin with.



Bee in base disrupted Ei's armor, I think a healthy 7th Gate Gai punch can do the same and more.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

> Gai uses the 7th and 8th Gate pretty well while literally not even 10 minutes before he is needed Lee to hold him up he is that exhausted.


Yes, but after one combo he suffer from some countereffects , it save enough time to blitz .


----------



## Trojan (Sep 26, 2015)

> Bee in base disrupted Ei's armor, I think a healthy 7th Gate Gai punch can do the same and more.



A did not take any damage tho. He, in bace, survived his assistance teleportation which was at the speed of light.
No way in hell is Gai's punch going to do much damage, it's obviously as fast as light either.


----------



## ScottofFury (Sep 26, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Yes, but after one combo he suffer from some countereffects , it save enough time to blitz .



Sure Gai would have some side-effects after the combo, but an in-character Naruto (Gai would target the Kage first) wouldn't attack immediately after, and go for a blitz. Naruto would be a bit stunned at such a fast and devastating combo. Also it should be noted Gai was only on the floor knocked out cause he was so severely exhausted. 



Hussain said:


> A did not take any damage tho. He, in pace, survived his assistance teleportation which was at the speed of light.
> No way in hell is Gai's punch going to do much damage, it's obviously as fast as light either.



Gai's punches in the 7th Gate a considerable stronger than a base Bee attack. I get that Ei is a tanky character, able to take a lot of punishment, but not several 7th Gate attacks, plus a one-shot kill technique with no resistance (he would be overwhelmed and stunned with no armor). He's dead, or near death and flown across the battlefield miles away. 

Wtf? Gai's punches are obviously going to hurt and fast as light? That make no sense.


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 27, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Well ur tone changed abit
> He isn't speed blitzing someone who can phase through without trying or warning
> 
> The others he kills 1 on 1
> ...



His regular punch damaged Kisame's insides to the point when he was spitting blood. He has enough power to knock out Obito and he has enough speed to speedblitz him. There was no worning when he tried to attack Juubidara after activating 7th Gate. In this fight, he is in 7th Gate from the start. 



> Plus MS Obito can clearly wins against Gai without teammates .



Within OP's distance, he has a chance to speedblitz him before he uses any of his abilities.


----------



## Ghoztly (Sep 27, 2015)

This is still going? My god. 

Naruto would high diff him.

Obito would low diff him.

Raikage get's stomped/


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 27, 2015)

Knocking out an injured kisame doesn't mean be can do the same to obito who has hashirama cells and was still able to talk after eating a raikiri to the chest 

A is more durable than kisame especially and injured one 


So is Sm naruto 

So again fan fic that gai regular punches do anytbinf other than waste these guys time 

When we got 2 people here tanking chidori and raikiri , one of them tanking rasengan and the other being able to tank ST

Gai punches are irrelevant compared to that


----------



## StarWanderer (Sep 27, 2015)

Ghoztly said:


> This is still going? My god.
> 
> Naruto would high diff him.
> 
> ...



Yet you brought no, absolutely no arguements to back up your words. Nice way of debating, dude. 



> Knocking out an injured kisame doesn't mean be can do the same to obito who has hashirama cells and was still able to talk after eating a raikiri to the chest



Gai can aim for his head, not his chest. Yeah, Kisame was parallised. Maybe due to a serious spine injury, who knows. But that doesnt prove the place where Gai stroke wasnt as durable as before.Hell, you will fall down from, lets say, 3 meters. You will break your spine, you may have your body scratched all over, you may have a dust all over your body. But your muscules in a lower part of your torso and your insides may not be damaged, thus may be as durable as before.



> A is more durable than kisame especially and injured one



7th Gate Gai has Hirudora.



> So is Sm naruto



SM Naruto cant take 100 punches, strong enough to hurt Kisame, to his head.



> When we got 2 people here tanking chidori and raikiri , one of them tanking rasengan and the other being able to tank ST



Raikiri went right through Obito's chest. Rassengan heavily damaged him. 

And Gai can aim for his head.



> Gai punches are irrelevant compared to that



I agree that his regular punches wont do anything to V2 Ei, but in that case, he has Hirudora.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 27, 2015)

Or due to hirudora from before . Obito faced tanked rasengan >>>>>> gai featless strikes 

I know he does . And u believe he can't use up to 5. So if he misses he is screwed . Unless u wanna change ur tone for this thread now 

And gai can't deliver 100 punches while 2 other opponents are there to fight him . 

His head tanked rasengan, Dat mask will shit on gai attack 

Yes he does have hirudora . Which when he fires he leaves himself open to be trolled by obito


----------



## Ghoztly (Sep 27, 2015)

Not much debating left to be done TBH. Gai is a very one dimensional character. Powerful, but straight forward. Not much you can really debate about.

It's either they get wrecked by Hirudora or they don't.

I simply don't see Hirudora defeating Naruto.

And it won't touch Obito.


----------



## ScottofFury (Sep 27, 2015)

Ghoztly said:


> Not much debating left to be done TBH. Gai is a very one dimensional character. Powerful, but straight forward. Not much you can really debate about.
> 
> It's either they get wrecked by Hirudora or they don't.
> 
> ...



Stating the obviously much, Gai will use his nunchucks to fight Obito like he did in the war. 

What is SM Naruto best durability feat in the war arc? I can't remember him doing anything significant because Naruto rarely used it and spammed Kyuubi mode like a shit kid.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 27, 2015)

U mean the nunchaku that obito wrapped in kamui without trying?

What are kisame durability feats outside hirudora ?

It's stupid to say oh look hirudora is strong it put down kisame but oh wait kisame is super durable he didn't die 

That's silly if gai fires hirudora obito takes him out . Also good luck with gai in cqc with naruto . Invisible punches swat him away


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 27, 2015)

Bee lariat completely destroyed his body .....


----------



## ARGUS (Sep 27, 2015)

Ghoztly said:


> This is still going? My god.
> 
> *Naruto would high diff him.*
> 
> ...



lol 
What the shit 
Naruto gets clowned


----------



## Trojan (Sep 27, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> lol
> What the shit
> Naruto gets clowned



Lol
what the shit
Manga disagrees. Gai gets clowned.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 27, 2015)

If Gai use 7 gate since the beginning , naruto doesn"t stand a chance against his speed and Hirudora .


----------



## Trojan (Sep 27, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> If Gai use 7 gate since the beginning , naruto doesn"t stand a chance against his speed and Hirudora .



Fan-fiction. 

The manga made it clear that SM Naruto was the strongest in the village, and team guy would only be in the way. 
[2]

As a matter of fact, FRS is stronger than Hirudora anyway.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 27, 2015)

No , it's not because naruto was the strongest but because he had a plan , it's on the next page :
parry
In feats , Gai is much faster than SM Naruto or V2 Raikage , but slower than BM Naruto .


----------



## Trojan (Sep 27, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> No , it's not because naruto was the strongest but because he had a plan , it's on the next page :
> parry
> In feats , Gai is much faster than SM Naruto or V2 Raikage , but slower than BM Naruto .



 no. 
Naruto was already declared to be in a different level than the rest.
parry

He was already stronger than Kakashi when he learned FRS. Same Kakashi who's Gai's equal.  

-  no. The Raikage was the fastest man around, and that includes Gai. 


I don't see where was it stated "I am the second fastest man after Might Gai" 
That only exist in Fan-fiction dude.  

Not as if that matters anyway, the 3rd Raikage was also faster than SM Narudo's clones, but he
still got defeated nonetheless. 

7th Gate Gai has only 1 shot before he collapses. Naruto's clones, frogs, FRS, his strong body..etc etc each one is more than enough to deal with Gai.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 27, 2015)

Ei didn't know about Gai's 7th gate .


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 27, 2015)

Tsunade did though 
But then we going back to that old debate

Simple outliner taken far too seriously . Gai doesn't need to be nearly that fast , his taijutsu is basically a nuke 

Though juudara was weakned a fact that is often ignored almost as much as Minato with 1 hand would obviously be weaker .


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## Clowe (Sep 27, 2015)

The ''feat'' that Guy wankers latch on to is, in my eyes, no feat at all, all i see is Juudara efforlessly dodge all of Guy's attacks and split his Hirudora in two with his staff. However because Kishi gave Juudara an exclamation mark for above his head, for Guys wankers that automatically means Juudara is being pressured by 7th Gate Guy. That is straight up the reason for all this Guy wanking, some exclamation marks.

 

Heh, I guess Bell test Sasuke is on Kakashi's level too huh?


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Lol
> what the shit
> Manga disagrees. Gai gets clowned.



War Arc SM Naruto doesn't have the speed feats to keep up with 7th Gated Gai. In a 1 vs. 1, Naruto would lose, assuming that he doesn't have Kurama's support.


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## Trojan (Sep 27, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> War Arc SM Naruto doesn't have the speed feats to keep up with 7th Gated Gai. In a 1 vs. 1, Naruto would lose, assuming that he doesn't have Kurama's support.



He has sensing abilities. He has clones. 
His body should be strong enough to withstand Gai's AT. 

and again, Gai has only ONE shot only which was not being shown to be deadly. 
And Kisame showed no physical feats that should make us believe that he is THAT much more
powerful that SM's users physical power, if any at all...


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## ScottofFury (Sep 27, 2015)

Clowe said:


> The ''feat'' that Guy wankers latch on to is, in my eyes, no feat at all, all i see is Juudara efforlessly dodge all of Guy's attacks and split his Hirudora in two with his staff. However because Kishi gave Juudara an exclamation mark for above his head, for Guys wankers that automatically means Juudara is being pressured by 7th Gate Guy. That is straight up the reason for all this Guy wanking, some exclamation marks.
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, I guess Bell test Sasuke is on Kakashi's level too huh?



And yet literally a few moments ago, the same Madara one paneled SM Minato with FTG and Kakashi. 7th Gate Gai was on the offensive against this godly character. 



Hussain said:


> He has sensing abilities. He has clones.
> His body should be strong enough to withstand Gai's AT.
> 
> and again, Gai has only ONE shot only which was not being shown to be deadly.
> ...



?? Man don't you realize that Gai's Hidora back then was not only weaker because in the war arc he got considerable stronger, but also because he did it against a giant water chakra eating shark? Plus he is in a fucking ocean. 

War arc Gai is a monster


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## Clowe (Sep 27, 2015)

Juudara never attacked 7th gate Guy while he was on the offensive, and when he did, Lee had to step in and save him, so what's your point?


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## ScottofFury (Sep 27, 2015)

Clowe said:


> Juudara never attacked 7th gate Guy while he was on the offensive, and when he did, Lee had to step in and save him, so what's your point?



My point is exactly that, Madara didn't get a chance to attack like he did with SM Minato. Are you thick?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2015)

Clowe said:


> The ''feat'' that Guy wankers latch on to is, in my eyes, no feat at all, all i see is Juudara efforlessly dodge all of Guy's attacks and split his Hirudora in two with his staff. However because Kishi gave Juudara an exclamation mark for above his head, for Guys wankers that automatically means Juudara is being pressured by 7th Gate Guy. That is straight up the reason for all this Guy wanking, some exclamation marks.
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, I guess Bell test Sasuke is on Kakashi's level too huh?



This.


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## Clowe (Sep 27, 2015)

When was it ever stated he had no chance to attack? reference the source material not your fanfic.
You are only seeing what you want to see.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2015)

ScottofFury said:


> My point is exactly that, Madara didn't get a chance to attack like he did with SM Minato. Are you thick?



Or he didn't see him as a threat. 

Because we know that Madara is fast enough to oneshot Gai whenever he wants, as he intercepted Gai's fastest move in 7th gate(hirudora).

This only proves that 7 gated Gai is faster than SM Minato, which is the logical conclusion one would arrive as SM Minato has 0 speed feats outside Hirashin.


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## ScottofFury (Sep 27, 2015)

Clowe said:


> When was it ever stated he had no chance to attack? reference the source material not your fanfic.
> You are only seeing what you want to see.



Clearly you just don't understand how great Gai is. 

I mean this man could beat all 3 of these clowns with weighted cloths on and his hands and feet tied up.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2015)

Hussain said:


> He has sensing abilities. He has clones.
> *His body should be strong enough to withstand Gai's AT. *
> 
> and again, Gai has only ONE shot only which was not being shown to be deadly.
> ...


Part in bold is BS, Naurto only survives that with help from the Kyuubi, no other scenario does he have the ability to heal that quickly. Even Kisame hopped up on a shit-ton of Hachibi's chakra got leveled, SM Naruto ends up the same way. War Arc's not fast enough to hit Gai, so it's questionable if he could actually do anything that would prevent his demise.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 27, 2015)

For all of you arguing about Naruto/Ay surviving Afternoon Tiger - they're not going to.

Afternoon Tiger broke Madara's V3 Susanoo. Such a feat would make it well capable of killing Sage Naruto or Ay.

Kisame surviving it can be explained due to his Super Shark Bomb weakening the technique or Guy not wanting to kill him. Not to mention him being juiced up on Killer Bee's chakra.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2015)

At didn't break Madara's Susano'o. 

And it is very likely that A survives it.

Naruto turns into paste though.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 27, 2015)

Is this thread seriously still going on?


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## Ghoztly (Sep 27, 2015)

I like Gai too, but this wanking needs to stop. SM Naruto would absolutely shit on him. Even if he does use Hirudora, SM is being seriously underrated here. He is too one dimensional to beat anyone with any kind of durability. It didn't even defeat a weakened Kisame outright. Please just stop.

Naruto surpassed everyone in the village once he mastered sage jutsu. I am pretty sure Shikaku knows what he's talking about too, hes only the smartest person in the village. Sigh...

Obito would absolutely curbstomp him. A strictly taijutsu ninja like Gai isn't touching him, sorry.

Just stop.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 27, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> At didn't break Madara's Susano'o.
> 
> And it is very likely that A survives it.
> 
> Naruto turns into paste though.



But he did.

There is literally no other feasible reason for the Wood Dragon to have loosened its hold on the Eight-Tails if Madara himself wasn't somehow affected.

There is also no other feasible reason as to why Madara was out of commission for an entire chapter if he wasn't hurt by Afternoon Tiger (which would necessitate Susanoo being destroyed).

So yes, Ay and Naruto get flattened by the technique. It's not that surprising giving that the explosion of said technique managed to make a blip in the God Tree crater - which in and of itself is still a very impressive feat.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2015)

This match is flawed for the very reason that Obito's MS is an unconscious reflex, therefore if Gai has to deal with multiple opponents here, such as Ei and SM Naruto, despite the fact that he can put either of them down in a 1 vs. 1 scenario. It gives Obito more than enough time to activate his phasing ability and therefore nullifying any of Gai's attacks.

Gai loses this because Obito is a too broken to fight against Gai.


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## Trojan (Sep 27, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> Part in bold is BS, Naurto only survives that with help from the Kyuubi, no other scenario does he have the ability to heal that quickly. *Even Kisame hopped up on a shit-ton of Hachibi's chakra got leveled,* SM Naruto ends up the same way. War Arc's not fast enough to hit Gai, so it's questionable if he could actually do anything that would prevent his demise.



Please stop. 
Kisame was skinny as fuck. He absorbed B's chakra, and return to his usually body. 

- Again, Naruto was not faster than the 3rd Raikage, and yet he defeated him. 



ATastyMuffin said:


> For all of you arguing about Naruto/Ay surviving Afternoon Tiger - they're not going to.
> 
> Afternoon Tiger broke Madara's V3 Susanoo. Such a feat would make it well capable of killing Sage Naruto or Ay.
> 
> Kisame surviving it can be explained due to his Super Shark Bomb weakening the technique or Guy not wanting to kill him. Not to mention him being juiced up on Killer Bee's chakra.




Gai's punches are determined by how fast they are. Are you implying that he is faster than light? 
Because A survived that just fine, and without even using his armour. 

buff up
buff up
buff up


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Please stop.
> Kisame was skinny as fuck. He absorbed B's chakra, and return to his usually body.


Kisame was already more durable due to his unique physiology, and you expect a regular (Kyuubi-less) SM Naruto who cuts and bleeds as easily as the next guy to tank an attack when someone with greater durability couldn't, that is beyond asinine.



Hussain said:


> - Again, Naruto was not faster than the 3rd Raikage, and yet he defeated him.


Yeah the difference between the 3rd Raikage and 7th Gated Gai is large enough where Naruto's sage powers cannot compensate. Minato with SM and Hiraishin couldn't surprise Juubidara and got his arm ripped off casually whereas a 7th Gated Gai did.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> But he did.
> 
> There is literally no other feasible reason for the Wood Dragon to have loosened its hold on the Eight-Tails if Madara himself wasn't somehow affected.
> 
> There is also no other feasible reason as to why Madara was out of commission for an entire chapter if he wasn't hurt by Afternoon Tiger (which would necessitate Susanoo being destroyed).



These are all assumptions. Madara was hit, and we didn't see what happened afterwards. 

I also don't think it makes sense for Susano'o to be completely annihilated by a technique that left Kisame intact. 

Susano'o with its lower forms was tanking Tsunade's hits with minor cracks, his V3 clones were tanking her with 0 visible damage. Unless V2 B is much much stronger than Tsunade, I don't see Kisame tanking hits from her without sustaining 0 visible injuries.

As for why Madara was out of the picture for that duration...  I don't know. 
Even if AT completely destroyed Susano'o and Madara's edo body, Madara'd still come into the picture pretty quickly as Edo regen happens quite fast.. So his absence isn't explained by AT taking out Susano'o.

So I see your side of the argument, but the other side of the argument is more coherent with the manga. Your argument can be chalked up to plot. 



> So yes, Ay and Naruto get flattened by the technique. It's not that surprising giving that the explosion of said technique managed to make a blip in the God Tree crater - which in and of itself is still a very impressive feat.



I'm not sure why you keep putting A and Naruto in the same basket. 
A's durability is on a completely different ballpark. Things that can kill Naruto won't even seriously harm A. Like Chidori for example.


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## ARGUS (Sep 27, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Lol
> what the shit
> Manga disagrees. Gai gets clowned.



still fighting the tough battle huh


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## StarWanderer (Oct 5, 2015)

> Or due to hirudora from before . Obito faced tanked rasengan >>>>>> gai featless strikes
> 
> I know he does . And u believe he can't use up to 5. So if he misses he is screwed . Unless u wanna change ur tone for this thread now
> 
> ...



1. It seems you just ignore my arguement? Ok, that's alright.
2. Featless strikes? His strike hurt Kisame's insides. That is a feat good enough to say that he can knock Obito out with his 7th Gate punch.
3. 1 Hirudora may be enough to knock Ei out.
4. Two other opponents? He can fight both V2 Ei and SM Naruto at the same time after he knocks Obito out. In fact, he can effortlessly speedblitz both Ei and SM Naruto.
5. He can deliver a spinning kick to his temple, which is not covered by the mask. And his punch is pretty strong, if he did such a thing to Kisame by hitting his torso. Plus, MS Obito's mask has no feats on par with War Arc Obito's mask.
6. He can speedblitz Obito and *THEN* use Hirudora, dont you think?


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## Icegaze (Oct 5, 2015)

Lol feel free to prove a weakened kisame is more durable than obito who survived a hole through his own heart 

I'll wait 

 

When juudara couldn't point blank going round in circles 

If this thread had polls we all know what they would say 

End of


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## Ghoztly (Oct 5, 2015)

Naruto may not be faster than Gai. But he isn't slow either, and he has incredible sensing in SM. Not only that, he has the techniques necessary to clown on Gai, It's like all people think he can do is spam FRS or something. it's the other shit that would wreck him. The clones, numerous benefits to SM, he doesn't even need FRS tbh. Gai's one dimensional taijutsu havin ass gets SHIT on. 

Obito shanks him, effortlessly.


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## StarWanderer (Oct 6, 2015)

> Lol feel free to prove a weakened kisame is more durable than obito who survived a hole through his own heart



As i said before, Gai doesnt need to aim for his chest - he can aim for his head. Do you have any proof he cant be knocked out?

As for Kisame's durability - it seems you ignored my previous post. Keep going like that, keep going. 



> When juudara couldn't  going round in circles
> 
> If this thread had polls we all know what they would say
> 
> End of



It seems you cant provide anything on the topic.


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## StarWanderer (Oct 6, 2015)

Clowe said:


> The ''feat'' that Guy wankers latch on to is, in my eyes, no feat at all, all i see is Juudara efforlessly dodge all of Guy's attacks and split his Hirudora in two with his staff. However because Kishi gave Juudara an exclamation mark for above his head, for Guys wankers that automatically means Juudara is being pressured by 7th Gate Guy. That is straight up the reason for all this Guy wanking, some exclamation marks.
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, I guess Bell test Sasuke is on Kakashi's level too huh?



You have refuted your arguement by your own post.
*
It was a bell test.*

Juubidara vs Gai fight was a fight *during the Fourth Shinobi World War*.

Not just exclamation marks - his face expressions.

Do you have any proof he was toying around with Gai? He wasnt toying around with SM Naruto, he wasnt toying around with Edo Tobirama, he wasnt toying around with Tailed Beasts, he wasnt toying around with SM Minato, yet, for some reason, he was toying around with Gai? 



> Naruto may not be faster than Gai. But he isn't slow either, and he has incredible sensing in SM. Not only that, he has the techniques necessary to clown on Gai, It's like all people think he can do is spam FRS or something. it's the other shit that would wreck him. The clones, numerous benefits to SM, he doesn't even need FRS tbh. Gai's one dimensional taijutsu havin ass gets SHIT on.
> 
> Obito shanks him, effortlessly.



Do you have any proof that SM Naruto is at least remotively close to 7th Gate Gai in terms of speed? No, you dont.

7th Gate Gai has a chance of speedblitzing Obito due to his speed advantage.


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## Icegaze (Oct 6, 2015)

U mean like how juudara with his speed advantage blitz obito ? You know the guy faster than Gai ?l

Also u never mention a weaker juudara is the one Gai faced while minato with 1 arm faced a stronger one

Obito took enough chakra to get omyoton let's not try downplay the fact that juudara got weaker


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## Icegaze (Oct 6, 2015)

You need proof he can otherwise it's baseless 
All we have is Him knocking out a weakened kisame after hirudora


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## Ghoztly (Oct 6, 2015)

I just can't see how a weakened Kisame is more durable than SM Naruto, hell even a perfectly healthy Kisame probably isn't. I think people are forgetting what an ass kicking Naruto can take. 

Let's not forget once Gai uses Hirudora, and it fails, he might as well kis his ass goodbye, get toadstomped.


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## Icegaze (Oct 6, 2015)

the hilarious one is how this weakened kisame is somehow more durable than A, Sm naruto and obito

when each of them have taken things that would kill kisame, except Sm naruto

if not for obito i would say gai would win, though both naruto and A style fighting suits gai. gai will out do them


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## StarWanderer (Oct 6, 2015)

> U mean like how juudara with his speed advantage blitz obito ? You know the guy faster than Gai ?l
> 
> Also u never mention a weaker juudara is the one Gai faced while minato with 1 arm faced a stronger one
> 
> Obito took enough chakra to get omyoton let's not try downplay the fact that juudara got weaker



How much weaker? Anyway, Minato was amped. And when he faced Juubito, he also got his arm teared off. In that case, he also was amped, by Kurama Chakra Mode.


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## Icegaze (Oct 6, 2015)

Weaker which is all that matters 
Enough for obito to be a sage

How was minato amped . He used his sage mode technique something he can always use


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 6, 2015)

MS Obito > War Arc SM Naruto > Gai (7th Gate) >/= Ei


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## StarWanderer (Oct 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Weaker which is all that matters
> Enough for obito to be a sage
> 
> How was minato amped . He used his sage mode technique something he can always use



The fact is - it was the first time he used that technique. The way he was blitzed (effortlessly, he couldnt escape even when Juubidara attempted to kick him away), the fact KCM Minato couldnt escape from Juubito - judging from these, judging from 7th gate Gai's feat, i dont think that Minato would have been able to react to 7th Gate Gai. 



> MS Obito > War Arc SM Naruto > Gai (7th Gate) >/= Ei



Based on what?


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## Icegaze (Oct 7, 2015)

First time out of how many battles ? Lol 

7 gate Gai is slower than both people who blitz him so ur assumption is baseless entirely so 

Also against a stronger juudara minato had 1 hand . Limits his abilities unless u think a 1 handed Gai can pull off what Gai did in canon


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