# May 20th is now "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!"



## ryne11 (Apr 25, 2010)

Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!' grows in reaction to 'South Park said:
			
		

> Postings on the Islamic website RevolutionMuslim.com led last week to Comedy Central's  editing a "South Park" speech about fear and intimidation. That network censorship, however, has spawned another cartoon event: "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day" -- a campaign that might not be so easily quieted.
> 
> The event, scheduled for May 20, is gathering momentum online.
> 
> ...





Good Idea? Retarded Idea?
Anyone in?
I can't draw for shit, but might try.


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## Mael (Apr 25, 2010)

It's like I think it'll be a lulz riot...but of course there will be acts of random asshole.


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## Dr. Obvious (Apr 25, 2010)

Hah yes. I'm gonna see if I can get a drawing in the newspaper in our town. Subliminal ownage


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## Chou (Apr 25, 2010)

I drew Mohammed in MSpaint!

Am I gonna be bombed now?


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## Battoumaru (Apr 25, 2010)

Freakin' awesome! Somebody's got the right idea!


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## snaza (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm totally in


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## Kinzey (Apr 25, 2010)

Oh hell yeah, I'm doing this. I'm going to:

1) Do it myself.
2) Tell everyone I know about it.

I don't care what your religion is, but when you threaten people over A JOKE, that's when I get pissed.


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## Chee (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm in for this one. Heck, I'll draw him now, I'm impatient.


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## Zhariel (Apr 25, 2010)

This.... this shall unify us... -starts drawing-


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## Pilaf (Apr 25, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEvwfvRpqCA[/YOUTUBE]


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## MF NaruSimpson (Apr 25, 2010)

i propose we make it "draw deities in compromising positions".  Either way this shit is stupid.


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## Cjones (Apr 25, 2010)

Hell I might get a pen/cil and start drawing him. This is what I call unifying over some bull.


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## Koi (Apr 25, 2010)

Haha, sweet.  Count me in.


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## Pilaf (Apr 25, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> free speech and american values are bullshit





I fixed it slightly to more accurately represent your views, Narutosimpson.

People like you are the reason terrorists win.


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## Tiger (Apr 25, 2010)

Yeah sure, I'll do some drawing at work.


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## Momoka (Apr 25, 2010)

Vegeta? 


Well, all I can say is what the heck am I doing here..


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## Zhariel (Apr 25, 2010)

I finished mine, but there's some cartoon nudity, but no more than basic MS paint quality. I'm afraid to post..


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## Mider T (Apr 26, 2010)

It's one thing to express yourself, it's another to just provoke a short fuse just for the hell of it.  Those who participate do so at their own risk, though terrorists aren't in the right either.


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## SxR (Apr 26, 2010)

I think this is stupid, how does this help anyway


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## fuuki (Apr 26, 2010)

Anyone remember the Lars Vilks' cartoon controversy? Anyone see those drawings? Seriously...


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## Dr. Obvious (Apr 26, 2010)




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## Red (Apr 26, 2010)

ryne11 said:


> Good Idea? Retarded Idea?
> Anyone in?
> I can't draw for shit, but might try.


Everyone draw Mohammad day? More like "everyone gather together and antagonize a religious sect because of a few vocal idiots day".

Seriously, don't you guys think that this may antagonize the moderate Muslims who don't support the radicals or their threats but also don't like the idea of people making a mockery of something they hold dear?

Dick move imo. I get trying to send a message to the radicals about freedom of speech but that's like nuking your house to get rid of the pest problem. It works, but yeah.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Apr 26, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> I fixed it slightly to more accurately represent your views, Narutosimpson.
> 
> People like you are the reason terrorists win.



that's completely reasonable: don't draw mohammed= terrorists win


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## mystictrunks (Apr 26, 2010)

This going to end in one of two ways:
A) Someone gets killed and the people who drew stuff are all going to go " Muslims are savages. Blah Blah Blah Freedon of Speech blah blah yes my hate is protected blah blah"

B) Nothing happens  and people say "We won. We beat the Muslims by drawing" Then go back to their e-circle jerk.


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## Mider T (Apr 26, 2010)

This however made me burst into laughter.


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## Enclave (Apr 26, 2010)

Mider T said:


> It's one thing to express yourself, it's another to just provoke a short fuse just for the hell of it.  Those who participate do so at their own risk, though terrorists aren't in the right either.



The thing is though, the extremists pushed and this is a non-violent way to push back.  I'm not saying I condone the idea of a "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day" but neither do I object to it.

See, this wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for the threats, really they brought it on themselves and I would hope that the moderates would realise this.

After all, people depicting Muhammad is vastly preferable to killing.  Would you prefer the people who are planning on drawing Muhammad on the 20th instead go out and start killing Muslims?


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## hyakku (Apr 26, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> This going to end in one of two ways:
> A) Someone gets killed and the people who drew stuff are all going to go " Muslims are savages. Blah Blah Blah Freedon of Speech blah blah yes my hate is protected blah blah"
> 
> B) Nothing happens  and people say "We won. We beat the Muslims by drawing" Then go back to their e-circle jerk.



To be honest, I'm generally a pretty moderate person, but things have been getting quite out of hand in many Western nations appeasing Islamic populations. The burka ban in France, profiling legislation in the UK and TSA profiling of Muslims in America are injust, granted, but this does not mean that our society needs to bend over and take it in the ass for Islam everytime we violate a new rule. 

How is it ok that people blatantly disregard the will of the Catholic church in the media all the time, but Islam gets poked fun at and it's supposed to be antagonizing an entire swath of people? These things happen in the secular world, people make fun of extreme religious zealots, I don't understand what's the big hype about this. 

Have you stopped any of the p*d*p**** or gay jokes about the catholic church in the name of protecting an entire section of the world's population? No? So it's time to stop treating Islam like its above the influences of society, it's just like every other religion; people who believe in it shouldn't be worried about what the outside world is concerned with outside of trying to peacefully spread their message and convert people.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Apr 26, 2010)

Enclave said:


> After all, people depicting Muhammad is vastly preferable to killing.  Would you prefer the people who are planning on drawing Muhammad on the 20th instead go out and start killing Muslims?



so those are the choices?



hyakku said:


> Have you stopped any of the p*d*p**** or gay jokes about the catholic church in the name of protecting an entire section of the world's population? No? So it's time to stop treating Islam like its above the influences of society, it's just like every other religion; people who believe in it shouldn't be worried about what the outside world is concerned with outside of trying to peacefully spread their message and convert people.



the pedophiles are pedophiles, does anyone ever hold back against them?


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## Mider T (Apr 26, 2010)

Enclave said:


> The thing is though, the extremists pushed and this is a non-violent way to push back.  I'm not saying I condone the idea of a "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day" but neither do I object to it.
> 
> See, this wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for the threats, really they brought it on themselves and I would hope that the moderates would realise this.
> 
> After all, people depicting Muhammad is vastly preferable to killing.  Would you prefer the people who are planning on drawing Muhammad on the 20th instead go out and start killing Muslims?



What'd I prefer is leaving the spoofs to the professional cartoonists and Islamic moderates/intellectuals can debate their point.  This lack of tact with IRL flaming isn't going to lead to anything good.


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## Enclave (Apr 26, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> so those are the choices?



May not be the only choices but it's the choices that have been made.  The extremists went with the killing option while others have gone with the depict Muhammad option.

Take a guess who I don't detest.


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## Gaawa-chan (Apr 26, 2010)

Fantastic idea... but there's always the risk of some nutjob blowing up the whole planet in retaliation, I guess...


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 26, 2010)

Pretty pointless. The woman who started this is some local nobody cartoonist who is obviously trying to make a name for herself via a publicity stunt. 

The guy's description of Americans is pretty dead-on: people who would rather watch TV than learn what's going on in the world.

The point of this is to offend/provoke people, which is exactly what we need. I suppose amateur artists will fancy themselves freedom of speech champions, but alll they really stand for is the RL eqivalent of Internet trollling.


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## Gunners (Apr 26, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> I fixed it slightly to more accurately represent your views, Narutosimpson.
> 
> People like you are the reason terrorists win.



Nothing good can come out of mocking people. I usually don't agree with narutosimpson but I agree with him that it is stupid. 

There is a problem with individuals being too sensitive and overreacting to things but the answer to it isn't to go out of your way and harass them. It just adds to the tension that is already there.

Also terrorist feed of tension. Do you think doing things that will make create division in the community and make individuals feel slighted and disrespected will help fight against terrorism? It won't it just adds to an environment that will produce more terrorists.


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## abcd (Apr 26, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Nothing good can come out of mocking people. I usually don't agree with narutosimpson but I agree with him that it is stupid.
> 
> There is a problem with individuals being too sensitive and overreacting to things but the answer to it isn't to go out of your way and harass them. It just adds to the tension that is already there.
> 
> Also terrorist feed of tension. Do you think doing things that will make create division in the community and make individuals feel slighted and disrespected will help fight against terrorism? It won't it just adds to an environment that will produce more terrorists.



Being scared of people threatening to kill u isn't going to help either .... Its a problem when 1 or 2 ppl take a stand , not when the world is united ....

It would have been an issue if the show had shown/ criticized Mohammed ...

It showed Jesus watching porn, Buddha doing cocaine etc and it did not show mohammed ( just a whisper) ... When other cultures can take it as a joke , Why be offended? ... Things going in this particular direction is not good for either side...


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## mayumi (Apr 26, 2010)

i read on yahoo news page yesterday that hamas has started their own version of drawing cartoon. i say both sides go on a vicious who can draw the funniest insults than blow each other up.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2010042...onflictgazahamasprisonershalit_20100425133529

though i think that this cause is just trying to provoke people.


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## zuul (Apr 26, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Nothing good can come out of mocking people. I usually don't agree with narutosimpson but I agree with him that it is stupid.
> 
> There is a problem with individuals being too sensitive and overreacting to things but the answer to it isn't to go out of your way and harass them. It just adds to the tension that is already there.
> 
> Also terrorist feed of tension. Do you think doing things that will make create division in the community and make individuals feel slighted and disrespected will help fight against terrorism? It won't it just adds to an environment that will produce more terrorists.



Without mockity mocking of catholic church and monarchy  during 18th century Europ would still be a shithole.

Letting those guys' violence and threats work is the worse thing really, because it encourages them to continue. By showing them that their heinous actions will just earn them disrespect and lulz at their expence, maybe will they learn to STFU and not bomb people that disagree with them.


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## T4R0K (Apr 26, 2010)

mayumi said:


> i read on yahoo news page yesterday that hamas has started their own version of drawing cartoon. i say both sides go on a vicious who can draw the funniest insults than blow each other up.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2010042...onflictgazahamasprisonershalit_20100425133529
> 
> though i think that this cause is just trying to provoke people.



Well, if it's about them drawing offending cartoons in retaliation to offensive cartoons, everyone should be able to live with that.

It's using bombs that people can't live with.

I wonder if i should send them my drawing... Mael knows which one. And really, mine is not that offensive and uses 5 major religious characters.


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## abcd (Apr 26, 2010)

T4R0K said:


> *Well, if it's about them drawing offending cartoons in retaliation to offensive cartoons, everyone should be able to live with that.*
> 
> It's using bombs that people can't live with.
> 
> I wonder if i should send them my drawing... Mael knows which one. And really, mine is not that offensive and uses 5 major religious characters.



I agree


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## impersonal (Apr 26, 2010)

Red said:


> Everyone draw Mohammad day? More like "everyone gather together and antagonize a religious sect because of a few vocal idiots day".
> 
> Seriously, don't you guys think that this may antagonize the moderate Muslims who don't support the radicals or their threats but also don't like the idea of people making a mockery of something they hold dear?
> 
> Dick move imo. I get trying to send a message to the radicals about freedom of speech but that's like nuking your house to get rid of the pest problem. It works, but yeah.



I don't know. The radicals have made it difficult if not impossible to criticize Islam. A reaction against the radicals of a sect is going to antagonize the moderates - that's inevitable. The situation is such that we either accept the censorship implemented by the radicals or respond and there will be collateral damage.

By the way, the drawings do not need to be agressive towards mohammed, although some may and will be; just like drawings and rational criticism of the catholic faith for example (especially these days).


			
				Shinigami Perv said:
			
		

> Pretty pointless. The woman who started this is some local nobody cartoonist who is obviously trying to make a name for herself via a publicity stunt.


You should go back to the opening post and read the article. The poor girl is scared shitless and I understand her.


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## Petenshi (Apr 26, 2010)

This kind of stuff is the reason why there will always be a muslim terrorist. I understand it is stupid for people to overreact, however since we know the degree that some people will overreact I think its safe to say more lives would be saved by not using your right to free speech here. 

We have to restore our image, and this isn't going to help. I am not looking forward to the 50 more years in iraq we have.


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## id_1948 (Apr 26, 2010)

It still confuses me how this got to this point...

South Park made the episode mentioning mohd... not a single muslim country or organization objected... the vast vast majority dont even care... its a cartoon known to make fun of everything and have even shown him in the past with no fuss

Some american on a website then state that this made the producers targets for revenge kilings... 

Next thing all over the media there are reports of death threats and islamic threats.... still the muslims didnt act or care... like i said most see this as a cartoon and what one person said on a website shouldnt represent them... or so the theory goes

Of course all over this forum (and others) everyone is crying that the muslims inhibit freedom of speech and such.... but i have yet to see any muslim scholar, organisation, country, institute condem the south park cartoons or speak against it

Now I see this draw mohd cartoon day and think

What the difference between this and between ahmadidajan in Iran inviting people to draw a "holocaust denial" cartoon to antagonise the west like he did 2 years ago???

Its all looking pretty childish...


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Apr 26, 2010)

id_1948 said:


> It still confuses me how this got to this point...
> 
> South Park made the episode mentioning mohd... not a single muslim country or organization objected... the vast vast majority dont even care... its a cartoon known to make fun of everything and have even shown him in the past with no fuss
> 
> ...



This is because 90% of people here just look at the title, without reading the article because its too long


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## Miss Fortune (Apr 26, 2010)

I'll make mine detailed. No. 

Don't feel like listening to article, next!


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## @lk3mizt (Apr 26, 2010)

Mider T said:


> It's one thing to express yourself, it's another to just provoke a short fuse just for the hell of it.  Those who participate do so at their own risk, though terrorists aren't in the right either.



this!

the whole idea is fucking stupid.


good luck to you guys


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## sadated_peon (Apr 26, 2010)

id_1948 said:


> What the difference between this and between ahmadidajan in Iran inviting people to draw a "holocaust denial" cartoon to antagonise the west like he did 2 years ago???
> 
> Its all looking pretty childish...



Holocaust survives didn't threaten to kill the creators of the cartoons.

-

As long as Muslims refuse to deal with the problem of their own extremist groups, this will continue to be a problem.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

Let's see if these drawings can "reduce" our use of bombs, un. 

I now protest against any depiction of Muhammad, by Islamic law he is not allowed to be depicted because of the fear of slander. Just like what's happening now.

I haven't spoke up until now because I know you bastards aren't gonna give a single shit if I do. I'm AMAZED that some people count how many who were not protesting and make it sound like anything will change if the protesters' number increase.


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## impersonal (Apr 26, 2010)

id_1948 said:


> (...)
> Of course all over this forum (and others) everyone is crying that the muslims inhibit freedom of speech and such.... but i have yet to see any muslim scholar, organisation, country, institute condem the south park cartoons or speak against it(...)



There are plenty of muslim scholars who called for the death of people who criticized Islam. Radical Islam operates an important censorship right now. Just look at the reaction from Comedy Central.




id_1948 said:


> What the difference between this and between ahmadidajan in Iran inviting people to draw a "holocaust denial" cartoon to antagonise the west like he did 2 years ago???


The difference is that millions of people lost family in the holocaust.
Whereas some muslims get offended by relatively neutral drawings. You really can't see the difference?

The jews who are offended by holocaust denial have every right to be. The mulisms who are offended by drawings are morons.

That said, if it can remain like that, it's kind of alright; a drawing battle, in which one side would be right and the other wrong imho, but nobody dies. The real problem is that many of the morons described earlier send murder threats. Still don't see the difference?


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## Mael (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Let's see if these drawings can "reduce" our use of bombs, un.
> 
> I now protest against any depiction of Muhammad, *by Islamic law he is not allowed to be depicted because of the fear of slander*. Just like what's happening now.
> 
> I haven't spoke up until now because I know you bastards aren't gonna give a single shit if I do. I'm AMAZED that some people count how many who were not protesting and make it sound like anything will change if the protesters' number increase.



Then what about this?


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## Jesus (Apr 26, 2010)

As long as it's done in good taste....


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

Mael said:


> Then what about this?



So? Did Islam say that picture was exceptional? Nope, it was just as forbidden. We're strictly prohibited to drawing an image of the Prophet because we didn't see him in our life, and those that did saw him, and did draw, even without slander, will give room to slander simply because other jerks like idk, Americans, would draw Muhammad using the same face in a slanderous style. Done.


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## impersonal (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:
			
		

> I now protest against any depiction of Muhammad, by Islamic law he is not allowed to be depicted because of the fear of slander.


Fuck Islamic law, I'm not a muslim. If you can't learn tolerance, don't be surprised if people call you names.

Besides, the reason is not slander but the risk of idolization (see, you're not so much attached to religious law as to whining). By the look of things, the prophet is already more of an Idol than Allah himself for many muslims.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

impersonal said:


> Fuck Islamic law, I'm not a muslim. If you can't learn tolerance, don't be surprised if people call you names.



If you can't learn to stop sticking your nose where they don't belong, don't be surprised if people call you names.

I'm not surprised by name calling, I'm surprised to see that some people think if given a larger resistance, we can prevent this sort of thing, all the while people like you want to is make us follow you instead of our chosen ways. By hook or by crook.


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## Deimos (Apr 26, 2010)

*A:* I don't like your mom.
*B:* BAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!
*A:* I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom. I don't like your mom.
*B:* *kills A*

Yay for intelligent species!

What really is pathetic, however, is how some people manage to associate Muhammad with terrorism. Exactly how they got there eludes me. The problem, at least the one related to terrorism, is neither in Islam nor in Muhammad, it's in the terrorists. When I want to criticize today's USA, I don't need to involve Abraham Lincoln in any way. Is it really that difficult to target the people responsible? Muhammad died a long time ago. He neither hurt any of us nor is he responsible for any of this "Islamic terrorism".

Now.. If it still makes you happy to make fun of someone for no apparent reason, then do it. By all means. Not many countries enforce rational behavior as far as I know.


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## Mael (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> So? Did Islam say that picture was exceptional? Nope, it was just as forbidden.



Not really.  That was a 17th century *Ottoman (because they too were Muslim)* rendition of a 14th century manuscript.



> The Prophet Muhammad, 17th century Ottoman copy of an early 14th century (Ilkhanate period) manuscript of Northwestern Iran or northern Iraq (the "Edinburgh codex"). Illustration of Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī's al-Âthâr al-bâqiyah ( الآثار الباقيةة ; "The Remaining Signs of Past Centuries")



Sorry but I call bullshit to this exceptionalism.  You and anyone else claiming special privilege aren't special at all.  You're just like us.  Now suck it up.




YOU DID IT YOURSELVES!

We have our freedoms here and we shouldn't have to cater to some outsider getting butthurt over it.  Can't recall the last American threatening to invade an old Muslim's home with his grandson inside with an ax over a caricature of George Washington.

You. Are. Not. Special.


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## impersonal (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> If you can't learn to stop sticking your nose where they don't belong, don't be surprised if people call you names.
> 
> I'm not surprised by name calling, I'm surprised to see that some people think if given a larger resistance, we can prevent this sort of thing, *all the while people like you want to is make us follow you instead of our chosen ways.* By hook or by crook.



Sorry, the only thing "people like me" are asking is for "people like you" to grow a pair. Anyone can criticize Islam. It's the muslims' responsibility to accept this; they may answer the critics with other arguments, but if they're going to claim that by having an opinion and expressing it we're "sticking our noses where they don't belong", then you can be ready for a shitstorm, and you're the only one responsible.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

Mael said:


> Not really.  That was a 17th century *Ottoman (because they too were Muslim)* rendition of a 14th century manuscript.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, and how many Muslims have done premarital sex despite the obvious ban? And thieving despite the cutting of hand (that is no more carried out anyway for most parts)? We're Muslims, we're given laws, some of us follow, some of us break it. Ottoman Empire's ethics were regarded as already worsening at that time.

I'm protesting against this, where do I ask for you to cater for anything? I'm simply objecting the idea, just like how you don't like the way things are run in a country.

I don't expect the world to change for me, I don't expect the insult to stop. I simply want it, it's up to you to stop or not. Yes, we Muslims are not special.


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## abcd (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Oh, and how many Muslims have done premarital sex despite the obvious ban? And thieving despite the cutting of hand (that is no more carried out anyway for most parts)? We're Muslims, we're given laws, some of us follow, some of us break it. Ottoman Empire's ethics were regarded as already worsening at that time.
> 
> I'm protesting against this, where do I ask for you to cater for anything? I'm simply objecting the idea, just like how you don't like the way things are run in a country.
> 
> I don't expect the world to change for me, I don't expect the insult to stop. I simply want it, it's up to you to stop or not. Yes, we Muslims are not special.



If u want something to stop .. You should go against the Radicals and try solving things with peace, not threaten everyone with murder.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

impersonal said:


> Sorry, the only thing "people like me" are asking is for "people like you" to grow a pair. Anyone can criticize Islam. It's the muslims' responsibility to accept this; they may answer the critics with other arguments, but if they're going to claim that by having an opinion and expressing it we're "sticking our noses where they don't belong", then you can be ready for a shitstorm, and you're the only one responsible.



Anyone can criticize Islam and just so anyone can want for this to stop and see it as forbidden.

Some of the disbelivers' opinion center around how Islam should be, and it's always according to their mould. I consider that as "sticking noses". Why shouldn't I?

There's a difference between criticism and insult. The path you carve for criticism can simply be treaded by others to launch an insult; and just because you are criticizing doesn't mean others aren't insulting.



abcd said:


> If u want something to stop .. You should go against the Radicals and try solving things with peace, not threaten everyone with murder.



I'm threatening no one with murder, though this news can potentially led to more done by my own kind. What peace? There is no solution to this. I don't want you to draw a picture, but you do and you think it's harmless. So I retaliation I just protest on the internet.


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## impersonal (Apr 26, 2010)

> Depictions of Muhammad
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The permissibility of depictions of Muhammad, the founder of Islam, has long been a concern in Islam's history. Oral and written descriptions are readily accepted by all traditions of Islam, but there is disagreement about visual depictions.[1][2]
> ...



it should be noted that the ban on depictions of Muhammad is not even recognized among muslim scholars.




			
				Aster The Megalomaniac said:
			
		

> Anyone can criticize Islam and just so anyone can want for this to stop and see it as forbidden.


This is not comparable. "Anyone can criticize Islam and just so anyone can defend Islam" is the correct formulation.

What you wrote means that you're opposed to freedom of speech. In that case, go live in some theocracy because occidental countries have no room for your kind.

Sure, freedom of speech also covers attacks against freedom of speech. But you've still made yourself an enemy of the values of the whole west, so don't complain if people hate you for that.


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## perman07 (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> If you can't learn to stop sticking your nose where they don't belong, don't be surprised if people call you names.


Sticking our noses in? Muslims are citizens in every country in the West, and generally the citizens that are the hardest to integrate to Western societies. The subject of Islam and it's influence is very relevant, and people who call for a discussion on Islam aren't sticking their noses in, their noses are already stuck.

Fact is, muslim women being suppressed is a domestic concern for many countries, muslims wanting to have children go to muslim schools instead of learning normal things is a domestic concern for many countries, muslims generally integrating less into society is a domestic concern for many countries.



> I'm not surprised by name calling, I'm surprised to see that some people think if given a larger resistance, we can prevent this sort of thing, all the while people like you want to is make us follow you instead of our chosen ways. By hook or by crook.


The societies in the West are based around the idea of freedom, it's only natural we want muslims to see eye to eye with us on freedom. People of other religious persuasions have managed to understand the rationality of freedom of speech after all, it's time muslims did the same.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

impersonal said:


> This is not comparable. "Anyone can criticize Islam and just so anyone can defend Islam" is the correct formulation.
> 
> What you wrote means that you're opposed to freedom of speech. In that case, go live in some theocracy because occidental countries have no room for your kind.
> 
> Sure, freedom of speech also covers attacks against freedom of speech. But you've still made yourself an enemy of the values of the whole west, so don't complain if people hate you for that.



What? I see no difference in the two formulations. Well, yes I'm opposed to freedom of expression regarding my religion by non-Muslims. No room? there's plenty here. My ideals can't expand but my life will always go on.

I'm not complaining, simply protesting against the idea.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

perman07 said:


> Sticking our noses in? Muslims are citizens in every country in the West, and generally the citizens that are the hardest to integrate to Western societies. The subject of Islam and it's influence is very relevant, and people who call for a discussion on Islam aren't sticking their noses in, their noses are already stuck.
> 
> Fact is, muslim women being suppressed is a domestic concern for many countries, muslims wanting to have children go to muslim schools instead of learning normal things is a domestic concern for many countries, muslims generally integrating less into society is a domestic concern for many countries.
> 
> ...



Those are your concerns, apparently not mine. 
I understand your freedom, but you don't get to decide when Muslims will "do the same" or if we ever will.

I personally believe that there are flaws in freedom of speech, mainly too much debating and not getting the job done, or at least move along.


----------



## impersonal (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:
			
		

> What? I see no difference in the two formulations.


Case a: when someone says "your religion sucks because a, b, c", you answer "my religion is good because d, e, f".
Case b: when someone says "your religion sucks because a, b, c", you answer "shut the fuck up". Variants include "shut the fuck up or I behead you".

Can't see the difference?




			
				Aster The Megalomaniac said:
			
		

> Well, yes I'm opposed to freedom of expression regarding my religion by non-Muslims. No room? there's plenty here. My ideals can't expand but my life will always go on.


Most of the people in the west think you shouldn't live and pay your taxes in a country which you do not accept. I wonder what Islamic laws have to say about this.


----------



## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

impersonal said:


> Case a: when someone says "your religion sucks because a, b, c", you answer "my religion is good because d, e, f".
> Case b: when someone says "your religion sucks because a, b, c", you answer "shut the fuck up". Variants include "shut the fuck up or I behead you".
> 
> Can't see the difference?


hmm, yeah, but just saying "Shut the fuck up" only hurts feelings, right? Like this news does. I don't practice the variant. So calm down.





> Most of the people in the west think you should go away and rightly so.


You think? Too bad, then, but I'm not in the west anyway so no worries.


----------



## impersonal (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> hmm, yeah, but just saying "Shut the fuck up" only hurts feelings, right?


Well, yeah, yet that's what many radical muslims keep doing _all the time_.



Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> You think? Too bad, then, but I'm not in the west anyway so no worries.


Oh, sorry about this then. I shouldn't assume. So, what's your beef with what Americans do? Isn't this kind of "sticking your nose where it doesn't belong"? After all, the campaign is focused on those muslims threatening their freedom of speech, not on any other.


----------



## firefist (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm a muslim and this makes me sad.
not the drawings, but the fact that everyone thinks every muslim is like the terrorists.


----------



## sadated_peon (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> I'm protesting against this, where do I ask for you to cater for anything? I'm simply objecting the idea, just like how you don't like the way things are run in a country.



Are you also protesting against the death threats made?


----------



## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

impersonal said:


> Well, yeah, yet that's what many radical muslims keep doing _all the time_.


I'm not them. 




> Oh, sorry about this then. I shouldn't assume. So, what's your beef with what Americans do? Isn't this kind of "sticking your nose where it doesn't belong"? After all, the campaign is focused on those muslims threatening their freedom of speech, not on any other.


It referred to some in this thread that think we should be "moderate" or face our radicals. I do oppose radicals, but more often than not what Muslims view as radical and what non believers do view as radical, differ. So they view Rule A as radical and we do not, and they keep pressing on us to change.

This is a demonstration of freedom of speech, but I think at least some in this thread think I shouldn't protest against this news by justifying the action. I'll still protest because it's for my religion. Don't make it *that much* of your business to convince me not to, or tell me what to do.



sadated_peon said:


> Are you also protesting against the death threats made?



No, I won't protest against death threats made to you anymore.


----------



## Mael (Apr 26, 2010)

Firefist said:


> I'm a muslim and this makes me sad.
> not the drawings, but the fact that everyone thinks every muslim is like the terrorists.



No, not everyone thinks Muslims are like Muslim terrorists.  Problem is that Muslim extremists and powers that be take advantage of others through coercion or the lack of education in some nations mixed with the lack of criticism from the moderate Muslim majority.  The cartoons IMO are more a message to the extremists as a "fuck you, you won't force us" sort of deal.  Yeah it will prod some moderates into anger, but it's an expression of us and the freedom we have to criticize/insult.  And yes it is getting a rise out of people because that's what we now expect from said community.  Buddha snorted cocaine in South Park and no one made death threats and although RevolutionMuslim's words were indeed taken out of context (despite the fact the group should still die in a fire), what has been done is done.


----------



## abcd (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> I'm not them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Most people would consider suicide bombers as Radicals ... I think the opinion should stay the same everywhere... I also think that the people who make death threats are radicals .....


----------



## impersonal (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> *It referred to some in this thread that think we should be "moderate" or face our radicals.* I do oppose radicals, but more often than not what Muslims view as radical and what non believers do view as radical, differ. So they view Rule A as radical and we do not, and they keep pressing on us to change.
> 
> This is a demonstration of freedom of speech, but I think at least some in this thread think I shouldn't protest against this news by justifying the action. I'll still protest because it's for my religion. Don't make it *that much* of your business to convince me not to, or tell me what to do.


Well, it appears I had not fully understood your position. A lot of what I wrote holds though, but I think I've expressed it clearly enough as is.


----------



## sadated_peon (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Yes. It's not like they can carry out their threats, plus death of one person spawns a thousand others with similar ideology.



How are you going to protest this, vs the cartoons?


----------



## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

sadated_peon said:


> How are you going to protest this, vs the cartoons?



I'm not going to protest for the side of you pricks. Well, no more anyway.


----------



## Draffut (Apr 26, 2010)

Red said:


> Everyone draw Mohammad day? More like "everyone gather together and antagonize a religious sect because of a few vocal idiots day".



A few vocal idiots who have murdered over similar things before.



> Seriously, don't you guys think that this may antagonize the moderate Muslims who don't support the radicals or their threats but also don't like the idea of people making a mockery of something they hold dear?



As soon as I see all these moderate muslims denouncing the threats then who cares about antagoniziging them.  



> Dick move imo. I get trying to send a message to the radicals about freedom of speech but that's like nuking your house to get rid of the pest problem. It works, but yeah.



If the muslim population refuses to watch over itself, then i see no problems with measures like this.  its just free speech


----------



## perman07 (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Those are your concerns, apparently not mine.
> I understand your freedom, but you don't get to decide when Muslims will "do the same" or if we ever will.
> 
> I personally believe that there are flaws in freedom of speech, mainly too much debating and not getting the job done, or at least move along.


Well, humans are fallible, if you give someone the power to punish people for saying certain things, that power might get abused (real life examples include Iran which people have to run away from because they might get punished for dissonance). It's a better solution to just allow people to be themselves.


----------



## Ennoea (Apr 26, 2010)

I haven't seen one Muslim even care about the South Park episode. CC were just being over the top. All of this is quite silly.


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Apr 26, 2010)

No thanks I don't follow trends especially ones that I don't get me presents.


----------



## Razgriez (Apr 26, 2010)

This is why extremist threats fail. All they are doing is alienating their religion and making it worse for those who truly just want to live out their lives in peace.


----------



## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

perman07 said:


> Well, humans are fallible, if you give someone the power to punish people for saying certain things, that power might get abused (real life examples include Iran which people have to run away from because they might get punished for dissonance). It's a better solution to just allow people to be themselves.



Yeah, but suicide bombers are themselves, no? At least murderers are, and they see things in their own light. If we let everyone be "themselves", the world will be in chaos. Anyone could be wanting your Ferrari if you had one, and the only thing keeping him from stealing it is the law. 

On the other hand, if we keep everyone from at least expressing a bit of themselves, they'll launch outbreak and revolution; but we shouldn't just compromise by choosing what we think is a small damage in favor of a bigger one floating only in our predictions. We don't know which option will do the worst amount of damage in the long run and we don't know whether those are the only options that we have.



This is why I'm such a bad debater, and how I chose to not continue getting a degree in Law. I basically can't handle the stress of human psychology at this level, where we try to find solutions by being analytical and where we try to maintain peace by leading nations across and over corners and turns over what should be and should not, creating laws here and there and on top of it all, justify them enough to make everyone happy to give way. 

My mind is not capable of conjuring a leadership that will satisfy all, so I don't know what is a better solution... I'm just here to protest, and do my part as a Muslim.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Apr 26, 2010)

This is a great idea from anon we'll show those up tight pricks who's boss
Allah be praised!!!


----------



## Yachiru (Apr 26, 2010)

NF, I present you Mo's real face:


----------



## perman07 (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Yeah, but suicide bombers are themselves, no? At least murderers are, and they see things in their own light. If we let everyone be "themselves", the world will be in chaos. Anyone could be wanting your Ferrari if you had one, and the only thing keeping him from stealing it is the law.


Well, the classic ethics of liberalism (which I agree with) is that everyone should be given the rights to do anything so long that you don't infringe on other people's rights to do anything. The ethics that naturally arise from that sentence is that murder, stealing, violence and other things aren't allowed. 

One could attempt to say that being able to say whatever you want _will_ hurt other people, but one could also just as well say that preventing said people from saying what they want hurts these people just as much. Personally I am always in favor of freedom when such a conflict arises.


> On the other hand, if we keep everyone from at least expressing a bit of themselves, they'll launch outbreak and revolution; but we shouldn't just compromise by choosing what we think is a small damage in favor of a bigger one floating only in our predictions. We don't know which option will do the worst amount of damage in the long run and we don't know whether those are the only options that we have.


The rights to criticize religions are the basis behind a lot of social progress that have happened over the years. It is essential to allow it. People wear condoms because of it, which limits sexual diseases and prevent unsustainable population growth. It allows scientists to win over religious dogma when it comes to spreading scientific truth which is contrary to religious dogma.



> This is why I'm such a bad debater, and how I chose to not continue getting a degree in Law. I basically can't handle the stress of human psychology at this level, where we try to find solutions by being analytical and where we try to maintain peace by leading nations across and over corners and turns over what should be and should not, creating laws here and there and on top of it all, justify them enough to make everyone happy to give way.
> 
> My mind is not capable of conjuring a leadership that will satisfy all, so I don't know what is a better solution... I'm just here to protest, and do my part as a Muslim.


It's not possible to satisfy everyone as a leader, therefore it's critical that one allows everyone's voices to be heard, because minority opinions already get suppressed by the mere mathematical logic of them being outnumbered. This is true for both atheists and Muslims, they are both outnumbered and trying to outlaw certain kinds of free speech would suppress some groups that might have legitimate criticism to bring forth.


----------



## starmandeluxe (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm lol'ing at the people who are saying this is a stupid idea based on the criteria that these cartoonists are "poking a short-fused group of people despite the large number of sane Muslims." 

1) The only reason the radicals are short fused (besides the brainwashing?) is because we LET THEM be short-fused by accepting their intimidation tactics. Every time they threaten lives, we buckle, they get reaffirmed that what they are doing will work. And unfortunately, it has become increasingly apparent in the last 5 years or so that we are sitting down and letting them threaten us into bending to their religious will. It's sickening. 

2) If this was "draw the Pope pedobear day!!!!1" this thread would have responses only of "omg lul PEDOBURRRR!!!". The stigma in this country and many other countries is that Islam shouldn't be made fun of while any other religion is fair game. If the 'sane' group of Muslims really gets offended by this non-protest, they probably aren't all that sane.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Apr 26, 2010)

I'd draw him if I knew what he looked like.


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## Gooba (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm considering repeating the Vegeta head modfuck with Mohammad on that date.  I just need to figure out how to draw him in 20x20 pixels.

Free Speech > Butthurt Radicals


----------



## Toby (Apr 26, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> If you can't learn to stop sticking your nose where they don't belong, don't be surprised if people call you names.
> 
> I'm not surprised by name calling, I'm surprised to see that some people think if given a larger resistance, we can prevent this sort of thing, all the while people like you want to is make us follow you instead of our chosen ways. By hook or by crook.



The problem with the first analogy is that religion is not just a private sphere. It also exists in public, and when there's something in the public, everyone is expected to be allowed to speak about it in a democracy. This isn't a discussion in non-democratic societies, which is why we are having this debate now, in the democratic part of the world. 

The second thing you bring up is also problematic because, to simplify, when a problem arises in a democracy, we try to find a solution to things. What you're talking about is a wish-list, not a solution. A solution is to make it clear what is allowed and what is not allowed, and expect people to follow it. Muslims have a law of their own, and a holy decree, but non-Muslims cannot be expected to follow it - we are free to follow it out of respect for it or out of respect for another law which we consider to be higher in value. In democracy it will always be allowed to render anything in the presses short of anything that is inciting violence, because the primary rule of these societies is that you are free to choose your own values, and your own religion. Of course it is not radically free because any chaotic theory that leads you to breaking the law will throw you into jail, but act within the confines of the principles of the law and you should make a fine living. This applies for all countries.

As far as that goes, we are not forcing a damn thing on you. Muslims born into democratic countries or who come to democracies, and who cannot deal with these laws, are going to have to deal with them, because we all are. The fundamental principle is not only freedom, but that we are all equally free. Reducing the freedom of a particular group suggests that one group is more equal than the other, and democracies will never go back to that, simply because the closest thing we associate that to is the fall to fascism and the return to racist laws. And that is why it is so hilariously false to say that our laws are insensitive. We make the conditions equally applicable for all. If Muslims refuse to exercise the right to portray Mohammed, then good for them, but they shan't hold power over non-Muslims, and if they don't agree with this after understanding the other democratic laws, then they don't know the spirit of democracy for what it is. 

Also, it would never be fair to end this discussion without pointing out that the labels, the fear, and the entitlement that these debates encourage, have manifested wholly differently on our "extreme" wings. Radical democracies pint cartoons, but the overenthusiastic Muslims try to murder artists, and they've succeeded in warranting the majority of these reprintings due to the murder of Theo van Gogh. His crime? Making a movie that criticised how women are treated in Islam. It's not a small deal for us to protest then, and defend ourselves by pointing to our legal rights when someone as inoffensive as this is murdered. 



Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> I'm threatening no one with murder, though this news can potentially led to more done by my own kind. What peace? There is no solution to this. I don't want you to draw a picture, but you do and you think it's harmless. So I retaliation I just protest on the internet.



There is a solution. In time either the cartoonists will stop or the Muslims will stop caring because they get used to it. When that happens, this won't be a problem. It would help a lot if all Muslims abroad could be more tolerant like those Muslims who are being law-abiding citizens in the west and who are not thrashing around embassies.


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 26, 2010)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> If the muslim population refuses to watch over itself, then i see no problems with measures like this.  its just free speech



IIRC certain forms of expression, which I believe openly antagonizing people falls under, aren't protected by Freedom of Speech.


----------



## Yachiru (Apr 26, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> IIRC certain forms of expression, which I believe openly antagonizing people falls under, aren't protected by Freedom of Speech.



Dude. It's a _cartoon_ which people are butthurt over it.

Do I need to say more?


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 26, 2010)

Yachiru said:


> Dude. It's a _cartoon_ which people are butthurt over it.
> 
> Do I need to say more?


Yea, cartoons can never be offenseive right.

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Ennoea (Apr 26, 2010)

> Dude. It's a cartoon which people are butthurt over it.



Cartoon's can be offensive. But how you deal with it is the issue.


----------



## Bleach (Apr 26, 2010)

Stupid and unneeded idea. Not because it's against Islam and I'm against it but because it really is a stupid and unneeded idea.

People have too much time on their hands 

Let me come up with everyone draw a penis on your desk day.


----------



## Mintaka (Apr 26, 2010)

ITT:  The silent majority gets angry when someone else speaks up against the vocal minority.


----------



## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 26, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> IIRC certain forms of expression, which I believe openly antagonizing people falls under, aren't protected by Freedom of Speech.



Yes, yes it is. Threats of violence aren't protected under the 1st Amendment, but you can talk trash all you want.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Apr 26, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> ITT:  The silent majority gets angry when someone else speaks up against the vocal minority.



that's fair.  Nobody wants to be impugned for the few lunatics on our respective sides.

You mean you aren't part of any silent majority?


----------



## Mintaka (Apr 26, 2010)

Not on the issues that concern me.  If religion is such a huge part of there lives why are they not more vocal about this shit?


----------



## Red (Apr 26, 2010)

sadated_peon said:


> As long as Muslims refuse to deal with the problem of their own extremist groups, this will continue to be a problem.


Easier said than done. What are they going to do? Line up all the radicals and shoot them? Not saying its not possible for one group to keep tabs on their radical wing but its difficult and in this case when its done it doesn't really get the exposure it needs to be effective. See it's something like this:


*Spoiler*: _ Media portrayal of Islam_ 



Radicals: _*WE WILL KILL ALL THOSE WHO INSULT MOHAMMAD LOL BEHIND THE INFIDELS, LOL MADONNA IS A WHORE.*_

Moderate: Hey guise stop that, Islam is about peace and ya'll doing it wrong. srsly stop it. stop it right now. if you don't i'll write a blog post about it. stop it. anyone listening?

Hint: *Highlight the moderate text to see what they're saying*




Yeah something like that. Not enough media exposure and a lot of other factors make it difficult to hear when the moderates are telling the radicals to chill.


----------



## Jin-E (Apr 26, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> The point of this is to offend/provoke people, which is exactly what we need. I suppose amateur artists will fancy themselves freedom of speech champions, but alll they really stand for is the RL eqivalent of Internet trollling.



You'd have a point if these people planned to shove these drawings down the throaths of Muslims, f.example trolling Islamic forums with these pics or mailing it to Mosques.

From what i gathered, they will publish those pics in that Facebook thread. So any Muslims going there would obviously be seeking to be enraged and distressed intentionally and would be solely responsible for any hurt feelings.


----------



## sadated_peon (Apr 26, 2010)

Red said:
			
		

> Easier said than done. What are they going to do? Line up all the radicals and shoot them? Not saying its not possible for one group to keep tabs on their radical wing but its difficult and in this case when its done it doesn't really get the exposure it needs to be effective. See it's something like this:


How about ostracize them from the community. Publicly humiliate them by mentioning them by name in community settings as being un-Islamic and wrong. Protest outside their houses and call their employers who let them know they are employing. 



			
				red said:
			
		

> Media portrayal of Islam


When the original cartoons happened there were large protests, expelling of diplomats, boycotts, etc. 

Where were the protests against the death threats and the violence? 
Where was the expelling of diplomats?
Where were the boycotts?

This is not about exposure, this is about actions taken. 



			
				Red said:
			
		

> Yeah something like that. Not enough media exposure and a lot of other factors make it difficult to hear when the moderates are telling the radicals to chill.


Telling radicals to chill is not dealing with the problem. 

Identifying them, ostracizing them, getting the police aware of them, having 10 voices to their 1 shouting down their opinion as against the religion is doing something.


----------



## Ephemere (Apr 26, 2010)

i'm not a fan of south park, but that's just awesome.

who cares about "offensive" stereotypes anyway, every race and gender or lack thereof has plenty. this is just funny


----------



## Dash (Apr 26, 2010)

This is so stupid.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Apr 26, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> You'd have a point if these people planned to shove these drawings down the throaths of Muslims, f.example trolling Islamic forums with these pics or mailing it to Mosques.
> 
> From what i gathered, they will publish those pics in that Facebook thread. So any Muslims going there would obviously be seeking to be enraged and distressed intentionally and would be solely responsible for any hurt feelings.



You'd have a point if people were forced to come to Naruto manga forums. 

Hey, Jin, why come to NF (or my thread) if you don't like trolling? I'm not mailing flame/troll posts to your house. By this logic, I should be able to troll/flame to my heart's content in my thread and tell everyone who doesn't like it to pike off. 

This event will no doubt draw huge attention from the media. We live in communities, and events like this are intended to offend. It's intended to pit one group against another in an antagonistic manner, and divide people.


----------



## 00MinatoNamikaze00 (Apr 26, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> I fixed it slightly to more accurately represent your views, Narutosimpson.
> 
> People like you are the reason terrorists win.


 Ladies and gentlemen you are now witnessing the end result of a brainwashed generation.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Apr 26, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> You'd have a point if these people planned to shove these drawings down the throaths of Muslims, f.example trolling Islamic forums with these pics or mailing it to Mosques.
> 
> From what i gathered, they will publish those pics in that Facebook thread. So any Muslims going there would obviously be seeking to be enraged and distressed intentionally and would be solely responsible for any hurt feelings.



this is mental gymnastics: the moderate muslims get hurt cause they went to a website meant to offend muslims.  It's the moderate muslims fault.  I guess that's why i avoid going to KKK sites though, so u have a point :S


----------



## sadated_peon (Apr 26, 2010)

Dash said:


> This has to be the dumbest shit ever. You guys are going to attack our Prophet just because a few radical Muslims? Wow.



You say "attack our Prophet" as that should means something to me, or that I should care that it means something to you.


----------



## Jin-E (Apr 26, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> You'd have a point if people were forced to come to Naruto manga forums.
> 
> Hey, Jin, why come to NF (or my thread) if you don't like trolling? I'm not mailing flame/troll posts to your house. By this logic, I should be able to troll/flame to my heart's content in my thread and tell everyone who doesn't like it to pike off.
> 
> This event will no doubt draw huge attention from the media. We live in communities, and events like this are intended to offend. It's intended to pit one group against another in an antagonistic manner, and divide people.



For starters, thats not allowed according to the forum rules, so thats a pretty bad analogy. And using me as a centerpiece in a hypothetical situation is pretty useless, as i actually have the common sense to actually avoid or leave topics/convos about topics that i recognize are touchy for me personally.

Any Muslim can pretty much judge by the title of an article/website/whatever whether or not the content is blasphemous towards Islam by their standards. And whatever publicity this gets, the point still remains that there is no way any of these drawings will be published in mainstream news media.

Also, carricatures were never intended or created for the purpose to "Unite" society. They are by nature insulting to showcase a particular point, thats the whole point behind it. If anything, its not an attack against Muslims pr see, but the cowardice Comedy Central demonstrated.


----------



## IDGabrielHM (Apr 26, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> This kind of stuff is the reason why there will always be a muslim terrorist.



NO


The Koran is the reason there will always be a muslim terrorist, because it specifically tells all faithful muslims to leave their own homes and go out to kill non-muslims endlessly until nothing but Islam remains on earth.

Verbatim.  And it's chronologically the final standing order.

We (anyone not a muslim on the board) are all eventually going to die anyway.  Appease, we die.  Anger, we die.  Convert, maybe live if we get the chance but could still die.  Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Apr 26, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> *For starters, thats not allowed according to the forum rules, so thats a pretty bad analogy*. And using me as a centerpiece in a hypothetical situation is pretty useless, as i actually have the common sense to actually avoid or leave topics/convos about topics that i recognize are touchy for me personally.
> 
> Any Muslim can pretty much judge by the title of an article/website/whatever whether or not the content is blasphemous towards Islam by their standards. And whatever publicity this gets, the point still remains that there is no way any of these drawings will be published in mainstream news media.
> 
> Also, carricatures were never intended or created for the purpose to "Unite" society. They are by nature insulting to showcase a particular point, thats the whole point behind it. If anything, its not an attack against Muslims pr see, but the cowardice Comedy Central demonstrated.



Ask yourself why it isn't allowed. Because it divides the forum, it creates animosity and antagonism, and forums can't operate well in a toxic environment. 

Okay, I won't use you as an example. I'll start a thread called "Draw a Black Person", and warn black people that we're just exercising our freedom of speech and hope they won't use threats as a response. Depictions of blacks, as with the Mohammad entries, will range from benign to scatological. It's my thread, and black people who might be offended should know not to go there. After all, as you point out, this isn't a "black forum" (Muslim forum), and I'm not mailing it to black churches (mosques.)

And I'm not really buying that it's an attack on Comedy Central. Do any of you (without using Google or Wiki) even know the name of the CEO or Director of Programming for Comedy Central? Why aren't they being caricatured? Why would drawing pictures so blatantly meant to offend Muslims be a good mockery of Comedy Central?


----------



## Elim Rawne (Apr 26, 2010)

This is bullshit.We should be able to draw Mohammed regardless of time


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 26, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> This kind of stuff is the reason why there will always be a muslim terrorist. I understand it is stupid for people to overreact, however since we know the degree that some people will overreact I think its safe to say more lives would be saved by not using your right to free speech here.
> 
> We have to restore our image, and this isn't going to help. I am not looking forward to the 50 more years in iraq we have.



Bullshit, its not our image that's tarnished, its theirs. 



id_1948 said:


> It still confuses me how this got to this point...
> 
> South Park made the episode mentioning mohd... not a single muslim country or organization objected... the vast vast majority dont even care... its a cartoon known to make fun of everything and have even shown him in the past with no fuss
> 
> ...



You're right, a lot of the muslims look childish because they try and kill people over a drawing of something that the vast majority of people in the world don't believe in.


----------



## αce (Apr 26, 2010)

Yup this is him.

Get over it.


----------



## The Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2010)

Okay, this draw Mohammed to piss people off thing is getting dumb


----------



## Bleach (Apr 26, 2010)

^Do something about it


----------



## Jin-E (Apr 26, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Ask yourself why it isn't allowed. Because it divides the forum, it creates animosity and antagonism, and forums can't operate well in a toxic environment.
> 
> Okay, I won't use you as an example. I'll start a thread called "Draw a Black Person", and warn black people that we're just exercising our freedom of speech and hope they won't use threats as a response. Depictions of blacks, as with the Mohammad entries, will range from benign to scatological. It's my thread, and black people who might be offended should know not to go there. After all, as you point out, this isn't a "black forum" (Muslim forum), and I'm not mailing it to black churches (mosques.)
> 
> And I'm not really buying that it's an attack on Comedy Central. Do any of you (without using Google or Wiki) even know the name of the CEO or Director of Programming for Comedy Central? Why aren't they being caricatured? Why would drawing pictures so blatantly meant to offend Muslims be a good mockery of Comedy Central?



Once again, this situation cant be compared. Islam isnt a race. Its an philosophy and ideology that people can convert to and from. On the other hand, the ethnicity you were born with is the one you will die belonging to. And people are perfectly free to draw Black people in whatever circumstances, unlike Mohammed carricatures. Hell, Naruto now has two extremely stereotypical black characters in the story as we speak without it causing a huge revolt anywhere. 

And i never said Muslims shouldnt be allowed to voice their disaproval of disrespectful drawings, as long as they can do such in a rational and emotionally calm matter. But if people are overly sensitive about Muhammed and Islam, then why go straight to the source? Its similar to someone abhoring warm objects, yet deliberately touching a boiling cooking plate. It just doesnt make sense, unless they would seek it out themself just to confirm for themself their own stereotypes about the Western Worlds supposed decadence, lack of morals and blasphemy.

I mean, you were the one who compared these cartoonists to trolls, why should we then follow the direct opposite approach to how we usually deal with trolls, namely by ignoring them?


Because that is the core issue? And because it will show fundamentalists that coercion will simply backfire on themself? And no, i dont agree with this whole "drawing Mohammed" contest either. But face it, Islamists will ALWAYS create some kind of excuse or make a huge deal about insignificant episodes to further demonize the West.


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## Chee (Apr 26, 2010)

Firefist said:


> I'm a muslim and this makes me sad.
> not the drawings, *but the fact that everyone thinks every muslim is like the terrorists.*



No one in this thread expressed that. :|


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 26, 2010)

The Space Cowboy said:


> Okay, this draw Mohammed to piss people off thing is getting dumb


Then the terrorists may have already won.


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## zerocools (Apr 26, 2010)

I think this is stupid


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## Elias (Apr 26, 2010)

Saw this on a few news sites.


Seems very silly. I await the Mohammed with huge Kawaii eyes though.


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## Cjones (Apr 26, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> For starters, thats not allowed according to the forum rules, so thats a pretty bad analogy. And using me as a centerpiece in a hypothetical situation is pretty useless, as i actually have the common sense to actually avoid or leave topics/convos about topics that i recognize are touchy for me personally.
> 
> Any Muslim can pretty much judge by the title of an article/website/whatever whether or not the content is blasphemous towards Islam by their standards. And whatever publicity this gets, the point still remains that there is no way any of these drawings will be published in mainstream news media.
> 
> Also, carricatures were never intended or created for the purpose to "Unite" society. They are by nature insulting to showcase a particular point, thats the whole point behind it. If anything, its not an attack against Muslims pr see,* but the cowardice Comedy Central demonstrated*.



This is really the gist of the whole thing. I respect CC for trying to protect their employers, but at the same time I feel this is just another reason for the radicals to feel that they can't be criticized, because CC cave in the way they did.

The ironic thing about this though is Before this two episodes and the Cartoon Wars episodes. Muhammed was shown, clear as day, in the Super Best Friends episode.


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## T.D.A (Apr 26, 2010)

stupid idea, but since we have stupid guys on the forum


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## MF NaruSimpson (Apr 26, 2010)

question:

on may 20th the pricks in this thread draw mohammad, dick in mouth and everything.  on may 21st some unsuspecting, disinterested westerner, bc of course westerners are free to be disinterested, get's blown to bits by some pissed off terrorist.

What do u say to that westerner? "sorry, collateral damage"??


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## Mist Puppet (Apr 26, 2010)

So...what exactly is the point of this?


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## T.D.A (Apr 26, 2010)

Mist Puppet said:


> So...what exactly is the point of this?



to make little people in their bedrooms feel good about themselves? feel like they are awesome? powerful? logical? smart? who knows.


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## sadated_peon (Apr 26, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> question:
> 
> on may 20th the pricks in this thread draw mohammad, dick in mouth and everything.  on may 21st some unsuspecting, disinterested westerner, bc of course westerners are free to be disinterested, get's blown to bits by some pissed off terrorist.
> 
> What do u say to that westerner? "sorry, collateral damage"??



And rosa parks didn't HAVE to cause trouble by sitting in the front of the bus. Think of all the poor unsucpecting black people who got killed because of some pissed off racist.


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## mystictrunks (Apr 26, 2010)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> Yes, yes it is. Threats of violence aren't protected under the 1st Amendment, but you can talk trash all you want.



I believe that doing things to purposefully make people react violently, trash talking is an example of this, are also not protected.



sadated_peon said:


> And rosa parks didn't HAVE to cause trouble by sitting in the front of the bus. Think of all the poor unsucpecting black people who got killed because of some pissed off racist.




You're comparing a tired woman not wanting to get up to a group of people essentially e-circle jerking and doing things to piss a small dangerous minority off. 

There's also the fact that black people were legitimately oppressed whereas the media is more oppressed by the company that makes Tide soap than any amount of broke Muslims living in the middle of nowhere.


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## Vanthebaron (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm in?fuck all extremists


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## sadated_peon (Apr 26, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> You're comparing a tired woman not wanting to get up to a group of people essentially e-circle jerking and doing things to piss a small dangerous minority off.
> 
> There's also the fact that black people were legitimately oppressed whereas the media is more oppressed by the company that makes Tide soap than any amount of broke Muslims living in the middle of nowhere.


I am comparing

limiting someone from doing something they are rightfully entitaled to do because of fear of repricusion from a group that considers it insulting, 

to 

limiting someone from doing something they are rightfully entitaled to do because of fear of repricusion from a group that considers it insulting,


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

Toby said:


> The problem with the first analogy is that religion is not just a private sphere. It also exists in public, and when there's something in the public, everyone is expected to be allowed to speak about it in a democracy. This isn't a discussion in non-democratic societies, which is why we are having this debate now, in the democratic part of the world.
> 
> The second thing you bring up is also problematic because, to simplify, when a problem arises in a democracy, we try to find a solution to things. What you're talking about is a wish-list, not a solution. A solution is to make it clear what is allowed and what is not allowed, and expect people to follow it. Muslims have a law of their own, and a holy decree, but non-Muslims cannot be expected to follow it - we are free to follow it out of respect for it or out of respect for another law which we consider to be higher in value. In democracy it will always be allowed to render anything in the presses short of anything that is inciting violence, because the primary rule of these societies is that you are free to choose your own values, and your own religion. Of course it is not radically free because any chaotic theory that leads you to breaking the law will throw you into jail, but act within the confines of the principles of the law and you should make a fine living. This applies for all countries.
> 
> ...



Wow damn, I thought after I went silent over perman07 people'd stop quoting me.

It's simple really, I don't want you to draw a picture, you do. Why'd you justify it if I'm supposed to view it as a sin? It's not gonna make me want to stop protesting. I'm doing it because I want it to stop. I know well that doing one thing to piss off Muslims out of the blue is enough to be called "sticking noses".

You can be expected not to follow Islamic law since it's for Muslims just as much as I have the right to want the drawing to stop because it's against my religion. You don't wanna stop, it's your call. I still protest.

And perman07:
You said humans are fallible, right? You're a human as well, so we can't take all your debate as an absolute principle. That said, I have my way of viewing things regardless of what you think of freedom of speech.

1. You draw a cartoon people will get mad for it, then radicals will still be doing what they did, and it could increase in frequency.

2. You draw a cartoon, people will get mad for it, then moderates have reason to turn into radicals.

And lastly, I'm a Muslim. It's natural for me to take this stand. Why should I cease my protest just because it won't work, just because you won't stop and because you don't have any reason to stop and just because you're justifying this news?

Nope. I simply chose a side.


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## kazuri (Apr 26, 2010)

The sad thing is most of the people that are going to do this would go just as terroristy if you showed them a picture like this:


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## mystictrunks (Apr 26, 2010)

sadated_peon said:


> I am comparing
> 
> limiting someone from doing something they are rightfully entitaled to do because of fear of repricusion from a group that considers it insulting,
> 
> ...



The situations and intent are completely different though.


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 26, 2010)

> You draw a cartoon, people will get mad for it, then moderates have reason to turn into radicals.



If this is the case especially over a cartoon then there is something very wrong with whatever movement/religion that the so called moderates are following. I saw we draw mouhammid fucking a dead pig


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## Gooba (Apr 26, 2010)

> 2. You draw a cartoon, people will get mad for it, then moderates have reason to turn into radicals.


If a cartoons turns a moderate into a radical then they weren't moderate to begin with.


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## Enclave (Apr 26, 2010)

kazuri said:


> The sad thing is most of the people that are going to do this would go just as terroristy if you showed them a picture like this:



Actually, you'll find that the people who are going to be doing this are largely the very people who make pictures like the one you just posted.


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## andamaru (Apr 26, 2010)

Is this really a good idea...you guys can laugh now but when you have a plan going through your roof you won't be laughing.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

Gooba said:


> If a cartoons turns a moderate into a radical then they weren't moderate to begin with.



At least they weren't making the death threats along with the radicals that so much shook you to doing this, no? NOW that you complained about our moderation in regards to not allowing Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be depicted in a picture, it doesn't sound like the death threats matter, so I don't get why some people brought it up as a factor, then. 

And as I said earlier what is radical to you might be perfectly fine for us, but we also don't go as far as issuing empty death threats and suicide bombing. If this continues, we will be insulted more and more and someone will take deliberate action, since no one is gonna stand and let you bombard our religion every May 20th.

Soon Muslims will run out of patience and do something radical, at that point, I won't really blame them anymore.


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## Gooba (Apr 26, 2010)

> Soon Muslims will run out of patience and do something radical, at that point, I won't really blame them anymore.


Really?  You're saying there is a point that it is ok to respond to words with violence?  If that is at all an acceptable thing from your religion it should be bombarded every May 20th, and every other day, because it is wrong.

Although my actual opinion is that everything should be bombarded at all times by rational thought, criticism, and analysis.  That is the way society progresses.  That is how we have created medicine that heals the sick, gotten better farming techniques to feed the hungry, and advanced architecture to shelter the homeless.  An unwillingness to discuss criticism has gotten us planes flying into buildings, suicide bombings, priests molesting boys, and creationism trying to hold back education.


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## IDGabrielHM (Apr 26, 2010)

andamaru said:


> Is this really a good idea...you guys can laugh now but when you have a plan going through your roof you won't be laughing.


When the plane comes through my roof I'll be giggling my ass off.
Quit parroting terrorist propaganda; some things are worth dying for even if they're small things.
I also notice that this 20-odd sect of people who pissed and moaned about Mohammed being shown didn't say anything about South Park's depictions of God in the flesh.  That platypus looking thing?  Yeah, that.  It's a terrible offense to make an image of Allah just like making an image of Allah's prophet, and many muslim scholars tend to pose that Allah and the Judeochristian God are the same.......so what gives?



Frankly, a lot of this I see being explained by what I'll call the Dark Knight Paradox.  I think you'll all be able to understand.

The Joker went out and started committing crimes and murders, and he told people that he would continue to do so unless Batman took his mask off.  Batman, up to that point, had been thrashing criminals before the Joker got involved.
Thing is, before the Joker ever cared about the Batman's identity, he was already causing carnage and killing people.  But interestingly enough, all he had to do was say, "I'll *keep* doing it, unless Batman takes his mask off", and suddenly everything wrong that the Joker did became Batman's fault.  Even Batman bought in to it.
Batman didn't go out and kill cops or abduct private citizens and terrorize them.  He didn't threaten to execute public officials nor attempt to in broad daylight.  He didn't blow up a hospital.  The Joker did.  And no matter what was done to appease the Joker, he'd just change the rules as needed to keep on doing what he was doing.  Since the Joker did it, and wanted to from the start, wouldn't ya think that people would think it was, oh I dunno, HIS fault?  But no, no it's Batman's fault, because everyone is in a big fucking panic and it's easier to blame someone who doesn't fight back, or better yet fights for you, than it is to go out and get the psychopath who's actually out killing people.
I'll tailor my speech, just let me feel safe.  It's disgusting.
I'll surrender my rights, just let me feel safe.  It's disgusting.
I'll leave my land, just let me feel safe.  It's disgusting.
I'll disarm my self, just let me feel safe.  It's disgusting.
I'll turn on my heroes, just let me feel safe.  It's disgusting.
I'll sell my soul, just let me feel safe.  It's disgusting.

You never appease.  You never give a single millimeter.  Not to that.

Cowards are things I have no time for.  If someone dies I wont be snide about it, but I'm glad I could at least tell them they died for a good reason.

Islam and many other religions need to know that they don't get a free pass.  When so many are oppressed already, they need to hear that when they oppress one of us they oppress all of us, hear it until their ears bleed.
This is but another convenient opportunity to revisit an issue that needs to be addressed anyway, because even though you'd convinced yourself nothing was going on and it wasn't hurting you, it was happening and it does effect you and your peers, and somebody is going to have to get after it sometime.




P.S. Aster, you're just saying the same thing that extremist website said.  "Oh boy, you better not do that, or someone will kill you."  Passive-aggressive as you may want it to sound, it's pretty clear.
I notice you blessed Muhammad, saying "peace be upon him".  Quick history lesson: do you know Why you say that?  You say that as blessing of hope; you Hope that peace is upon him.  You don't Know that peace is upon him because Muhammad said that he was killed by being poisoned by a jewish woman.....but the woman he was talking about poisoned him many many years before and he came out of it fine, so even the most devote muslims know that he was just blowing smoke.  He suggested that he'd been poisoned, because that would mean he had been slain by the enemy, and thus had died in battle and satisfied the requirements of Jihad.  What REALLY happened is that he died peacefully, either in his deathbed or as some would suggest by ascending directly into heaven from a hilltop.  Trouble is that if he didn't die in battle, then by his own declarations up to that point he's not in heaven because he can't go.  Those who do not leave their homes and slaughter infidels in Jihad in the name of Allah are branded hypocrite muslims and wallow in the deepest most horrible chambers of hell, where Allah personally punishes them even more severely than infidels, forever and ever.
So you say Peace Be Upon Him in the hopes that he's not in hell, where by his own reckoning he was supposed to go.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 26, 2010)

Gooba said:


> Really?  You're saying there is a point that it is ok to respond to words with violence?  If that is at all an acceptable thing from your religion it should be bombarded every May 20th, and every other day, because it is wrong.
> 
> Although my actual opinion is that everything should be bombarded at all times by rational thought, criticism, and analysis.  That is the way society progresses.  That is how we have created medicine that heals the sick, gotten better farming techniques to feed the hungry, and advanced architecture to shelter the homeless.  An unwillingness to discuss criticism has gotten us planes flying into buildings, suicide bombings, priests molesting boys, and creationism trying to hold back education.



I don't exactly know my religion's stand on this clearly, but I know that people will take action when you repeatedly piss them off, and soon the amount of words is enough to trigger a war, because Muslims would want a stop.

And yeah, you think my religion is wrong, big deal. This is not discussion about criticism if you keep on harassing me for protesting and warning you about what might happen in the future, which I can foresee but not prevent and at a point, I won't want to prevent. I don't share the same sentiment as you. The bombardment that is provoking Muslims by doing what we see as offending us and at the same time there is no necessity for such a thing to be done, if this builds society to you, it destroys peace for me.

You make your trade. I'm not revoking my protest.


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## Le Pirate (Apr 26, 2010)

I;m so in on this. Screw you Islam.


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## starmandeluxe (Apr 26, 2010)

> You can be expected not to follow Islamic law since it's for Muslims just as much as I have the right to want the drawing to stop because it's against my religion. You don't wanna stop, it's your call. I still protest.



I love this rational, because it's really only in tolerant countries (specifically this time, America) that it will hold up. RevolutionMuslim, the group that threatened SP creators Matt and Trey, live in New York and enjoy the freedom to protest. Imagine a Christianity group protesting in Iran (lulz). They wouldn't have time to threaten anyone because they'd already be dead. The revmuslim people are taking advantage of a very just system.

Everyone who is claiming this day is "stupid" isn't looking broad enough. This event isn't to protest the moderate Muslims, but rather the radicals. And suffice it to say, it sucks, but the radicals are indeed ruining Islam for you. They're making the whole religion look intolerant (jk the middle east has been doing that for years). So drawing Muhammad isn't for anyone's benefit but our own. It may seem antagonistic, but if someone is pushing you in the mud and you push back, and a third party is telling you you're 'stupid,' then qq or gtfo, but I'd rather live knowing I didn't cave into bullies. The radical practitioners of Islam need to know that people will stop buckling under death threats. This is a pretty good start.


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## mystictrunks (Apr 26, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> When the plane comes through my roof I'll be giggling my ass off.
> Quit parroting terrorist propaganda; some things are worth dying for even if they're small things.
> I also notice that this 20-odd sect of people who pissed and moaned about Mohammed being shown didn't say anything about South Park's depictions of God in the flesh.  That platypus looking thing?  Yeah, that.  It's a terrible offense to make an image of Allah just like making an image of Allah's prophet, and many muslim scholars tend to pose that Allah and the Judeochristian God are the same.......so what gives?
> 
> ...



They aren't oppressing anything in non-Islamic countries though. Although Freedom of Speech erodes slowly and step by step not purposefully offending dangerous people for no good reason doesn't mean someones freedom of speech is eroding, it means they're exercising common sense. 

Also Freedom of Speech  and other freedoms aren't being eroded by Eastern Fundamentalists, the cause, in the U.S. at least, are public interest groups, Evangelicals with loads of money, and people with lots of money in general.


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## Vanity (Apr 26, 2010)

I wouldn't do it but I'm not surprised that this ended up happening.


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## Gooba (Apr 26, 2010)

> And yeah, you think my religion is wrong, big deal.


I didn't mean wrong as in incorrect, I meant wrong as in evil.  If Islam really does think that a cartoon can warrant death then it is _evil_.  I think a lot of religions are incorrect, but I don't think they are evil.  That kind of belief is not acceptable in modern society.  

However, I don't think your religion actually believes that, just the radicals giving it a bad name.


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## Bender (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm in! 

This is gonna be sweet!   

Payback for bullying South Park ya Muslim terrorist cunts! 

EDIT:

Anyone gimmee a link to a website where I can download photo editing program? 

ya know copy n' paste pics from internetz mix 'em up and post on photobucket?


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## Koi (Apr 26, 2010)

This is on Wikipedia.




Just saying.


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## Bender (Apr 26, 2010)

Oi anybody gimmee a link to download photo editing program plz?


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## mystictrunks (Apr 26, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Oi anybody gimmee a link to download photo editing program plz?


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 27, 2010)

Where is the bomb on his head and the suicide vest?


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## Spirit (Apr 27, 2010)

Firefist said:


> I'm a muslim and this makes me sad.
> not the drawings, but the fact that everyone thinks every muslim is like the terrorists.





Yep.



Mael said:


> No, not everyone thinks Muslims are like Muslim terrorists.  Problem is that Muslim extremists and powers that be take advantage of others through coercion or the lack of education in some nations mixed with the lack of criticism from the moderate Muslim majority.  The cartoons IMO are more a message to the extremists as a "fuck you, you won't force us" sort of deal.  Yeah it will prod some moderates into anger, but it's an expression of us and the freedom we have to criticize/insult.  And yes it is getting a rise out of people because that's what we now expect from said community.  Buddha snorted cocaine in South Park and no one made death threats and although RevolutionMuslim's words were indeed taken out of context (despite the fact the group should still die in a fire), what has been done is done.



Well, it's like a group of black people, sending a message to KKK by saying "fuck whities". I mean, it's like wtf right?



makeoutparadise said:


> This is a great idea from anon we'll show those up tight pricks who's boss
> Allah be praised!!!



lol. 



Diceman said:


> This is bullshit.We should be able to draw Mohammed regardless of time



The way you see things. 



T.D.A said:


> stupid idea, but since we have stupid guys on the forum



Yea, I'm actually quite curious as to see their reactions. Part of me wonder whether they have learn anything yet.

But I must admit even though I'd like to think of myself as one of the rational Muslims, the depictors really do make me wonder, are they really just trolling the radicals, or are they actually abusing my tolerance. Even Zidane headbutted Materazzi over insults. He didn't care about his careers, it's about to end anyway. So really, if these people are abusing my tolerance, I might as well join the fun and start campaigning against anything non-Islamic, even though I'm all for universal values (which I think can still be conserved and restored under Islamic rule). Right now, I prefer it if there exist you *and* us. The generalization in the depictions and insults only lead to further the you *vs* us mentality.



narutosimpson said:


> question:
> 
> on may 20th the pricks in this thread draw mohammad, dick in mouth and everything.  on may 21st some unsuspecting, disinterested westerner, bc of course westerners are free to be disinterested, get's blown to bits by some pissed off terrorist.
> 
> What do u say to that westerner? "sorry, collateral damage"??



Very wise. Much like the majority of the Muslims are "collateral damage" in the war between the West/pro-free speech vs radical Muslims.

Those who supports this. They don't see that they share the same behavioral patern as the radicals, do they? They're just at the other extreme end, thinking left is better than right, or right than left.


Also, everything Aster The Megalomaniac said.


----------



## Mintaka (Apr 27, 2010)

> Those who supports this. They don't see that they share the same  behavioral patern as the radicals, do they? They're just at the other  extreme end, thinking left is better than right, or right than left.


A.....are you mental!?

Yeah were obviously radical militants because were DRAWING A FUCKING PICTURE!

THEY ARE GOING OUT AND BLOWING PEOPLE UP, THREATENING INNOCENTS CIVILIANS, THREATENING, RADIO, TV AND OTHER FORMS OF MEDIA, AND GENERALLY MAKING LIFE A LIVING HELL FOR ANYONE WHO ISN'T THEM!

How in the fuck do you compare the two?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Apr 27, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> A.....are you mental!?
> 
> Yeah because werte fucking militant extremeists allbecause were DRAWING A FUCKING PICTURE!!



i think he's saying that in the mohammad-drawers quest to affront the terrorists, they are gonna injure alot of innocent bystanders, like the westerners that don't care either way, or the moderate or pro-west muslims who were fine with people excercising their free speech earnestly and responsibly, but don't care to have their religion insulted and mocked.  

See?


----------



## abcd (Apr 27, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> i think he's saying that in the mohammad-drawers quest to affront the terrorists, they are gonna injure alot of innocent bystanders, like the westerners that don't care either way, or the moderate or pro-west muslims who were fine with people excercising their free speech earnestly and responsibly, but don't care to have their religion insulted and mocked.
> 
> See?



Then the moderate and pro-west muslims should take a stand against the radicals themselves..... They prefer being silent and invisible when the radicals take action.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 27, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> I don't exactly know my religion's stand on this clearly,


What's your stand? WIthout fuddling around with your books, how do you feel?



> but I know that people will take action when you repeatedly piss them off, and soon the amount of words is enough to trigger a war, because Muslims would want a stop.


Why is it that muslims are nutter enough to declare a war while everyone else just goes "sticks and stones"?



> And yeah, you think my religion is wrong, big deal. This is not discussion about criticism if you keep on harassing me for protesting and warning you about what might happen in the future, which I can foresee but not prevent and at a point, I won't want to prevent. I don't share the same sentiment as you. The bombardment that is provoking Muslims by doing what we see as offending us and at the same time there is no necessity for such a thing to be done, if this builds society to you, it destroys peace for me.


Because you let what some words of people who you don't even know bother you into a frenzy? So if people on this forum kept going on about how barbaric and immature your beliefs are in the face of western ideals, you wouldn't mind if they were murdered just so they'd quiet down? Wow, just wow.


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## Mintaka (Apr 27, 2010)

> I won't want to prevent. I don't share the same sentiment as you.


Way to be part of the fucking problem.

NS I see that, however you say this as if they weren't doing that shit already.


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## vivEnergy (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm sure muslims would'nt feel offended if mecca and medina were nuked, after all there is nothing against it in the qu'ran


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## dr_shadow (Apr 27, 2010)

Lol, trolls...


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## mayumi (Apr 27, 2010)

pro-west muslims/moderates should take a stand about a drawing? the ones who want to express free speech can go about doing whatever drawings they want. i doubt pro-west or  moderate muslims would actually have any comment about the matter just cause some radicals think in whatever way they want.

the moderates are better off not saying anything and going about their lives as they want. they can just consider the drawing contest beneath them. whatever the matter is its between the free speech people and radicals. moderates are expressing their free speech by ignoring nonsense.


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## Spirit (Apr 27, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> A.....are you mental!?
> 
> Yeah were obviously radical militants because were DRAWING A FUCKING PICTURE!
> 
> ...



lol chill toko. narutosimpson said it best so I'm not repeating:



narutosimpson said:


> i think he's saying that in the mohammad-drawers quest to affront the terrorists, they are gonna injure alot of innocent bystanders, like the westerners that don't care either way, or the moderate or pro-west muslims who were fine with people excercising their free speech earnestly and responsibly, but don't care to have their religion insulted and mocked.
> 
> See?



Exacly this.

We're not dealing with a reasonable bunch. When someone is willing to explode over a piece of paper with lines and colors, you can pretty much tell that any effort to confront them intellectually, or invite them to "dialogues" will be fruitless. What do expect the "silent" majority to do? To go and blow themselves up at the radicals HQ?

Funny that the Western media never cover all the condemnations of Islamic figures towards death threats, and then in come the claims and blames that the majority consents such threats. Wtf? What you think is your problem, is our problem too. Do you think they only target the infidel West? They target anyone that does not comform to their ways, and that includes us. Perhaps, we are silent because we're actually doing something about it, too busy to talk.

You (not you specifically toko) seem to be forgetting that we, the "silent" majority, are not like the raging bunch. We don't explode ourselves at things we find disagreeable.

Next, we're not fighting a specific organization. It's like fighting a formless entity, so you can only be sure that the only feasible way to overcome them is to feed their brains and their stomachs, so they get to start to think about something else and stop feeling like they're fight for dear life. You can be suspicious, but until they act, you cannot do anything, you have no proof. But when they act, it's always to late, because what they do, don't really involve an army. They're groomed to solo a town.



abcd said:


> Then the moderate and pro-west muslims should take a stand against the radicals themselves..... They prefer being silent and invisible when the radicals take action.



Read what I said above.

How many news articles are made to cover sermons or speeches of clerics that announce the stance against this? Very few.
How many threads here that covers such article that died prematurely? All of them.

You know why? Because it's only fun to troll the Muslims. It's sensational and it sells. Forget empowerment, you can't even put half an atom's effort to express appreciation and support towards Muslims that speaks against these radicals. You categorically ignore them by focusing only on the radical's statements, by expressively lumping the "silent" majority on the sides of the radicals rather than the one that speaks against it. This is why it really does seem that you're more interested in provoking the whole of Muslim community to rise _against_ you, instead of _with_ you.

Again, a general you, not you specifically you abcd.


----------



## vivEnergy (Apr 27, 2010)

mr_shadow said:


> Lol, trolls...



inorite ? people nowadays can't have a civilized discussion


----------



## maj1n (Apr 27, 2010)

Tokyo Jihen said:
			
		

> Funny that the Western media never cover all the condemnations of Islamic figures towards death threats, and then in come the claims and blames that the majority consents such threats. Wtf? What you think is your problem, is our problem too. Do you think they only target the infidel West? They target anyone that does not comform to their ways, and that includes us. Perhaps, we are silent because we're actually doing something about it, too busy to talk.


The real issue is that much of the stupid shit fundamentalists commit, do stem from Islam, and the moment someone criticizes Islam by extension of the stupid shit happening, moderates AND fundamentalists join together.

This is why fundamentalists and moderate Muslim really, are considered both guilty of being absolute retards.

Moderate Muslims are generally considered retarded because at one point their all 'we support freedoms etc etc etc' but the moment someone says something bad about Islam its
'you got our religion wrong/you cant say that its insulting/the west did some bad shit too/look at christianity'

This is why the whole issue isn't 'Fundamentalists did bad shit' but the issue people think about, is SPECIFICALLY about criticizing Islam.



			
				Tokyo Jihen said:
			
		

> You know why? Because it's only fun to troll the Muslims. It's sensational and it sells. Forget empowerment, you can't even put half an atom's effort to express appreciation and support towards Muslims that speaks against these radicals. You categorically ignore them by focusing only on the radical's statements, by expressively lumping the "silent" majority on the sides of the radicals rather than the one that speaks against it. This is why it really does seem that you're more interested in provoking the whole of Muslim community to rise against you, instead of with you.


This is why moderate Muslims are considered retarded, this exact attitude.

When people say they want moderates to take a tougher stance on the radicals, you go right around and say 'your just hate Muslims'.

That irrational, stupid, and insane hatred, is exactly what the fundamentalists possess, it is why moderate and fundamentalist Muslims are considered in the same boat.


----------



## Ryan (Apr 27, 2010)

...and to think this is all because of 9/11

man, the world sure has changed - well, a little bit

can't wait to see what's gonna happen next


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 27, 2010)

Ryan said:


> ...and to think this is all because of people with no sense of humor or respect of other peoples values



Fixed for greater accuracy.


----------



## dr_shadow (Apr 27, 2010)

Maj1n, is it not a little childish to call all of North Africa and two-thirds of Asia "retards"?


----------



## Enclave (Apr 27, 2010)

mr_shadow said:


> Maj1n, is it not a little childish to call all of North Africa and two-thirds of Asia "retards"?



Not really.  I regularly make similar claims regarding the entire world.  Course I don't single out any particular groups.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 27, 2010)

mr_shadow said:


> Maj1n, is it not a little childish to call all of North Africa and two-thirds of Asia "retards"?



Yeah, it's a pretty stupid thing to say. People are not monolithic in regards to their beliefs.



mystictrunks said:


> I believe that doing things to purposefully make people react violently, trash talking is an example of this, are also not protected.



Yep, it is. Libels are illegal, but this isn't a libel.



Tleilaxu said:


> Fixed for greater accuracy.


What about their values deserve the slightest bit of respect?


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## maj1n (Apr 27, 2010)

mr_shadow said:


> Maj1n, is it not a little childish to call all of North Africa and two-thirds of Asia "retards"?


My comment specifically talked about how the world generally views moderate Muslims.

And it is true that Muslims, generally, are getting an increasingly worse reputation, by the actions of the extremists, the inaction of the 'moderates', and the extreme and irrational hatred of the west.

It doesn't help when the supposed 'moderates' flip flop and simultaneously say they are enemies of the extremists, but then go and attack 'TEH EVIL WEST" when 'TEH WEST' says anything bad about Islam.

No more can be seen by many of the supposed 'moderate' Muslims on this board, whom routinely say the Danish controversy was basically wrong on the part of the cartoonist.


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 27, 2010)

> What about their values deserve the slightest bit of respect?



Sure.. when they stop rioting over a cartoon and cease to make a big deal over it then yes. Just like how moderate christians dont make a fuss over jesus being drawn or depicted in a bad light. Sure you may get a few complaints but no death threats mass riots, "behead those who insult christianity" ect ect. Same goes for the other religions that are not making a big issue over having their deities drawn and made fun of.

There is no irrational hatred of Muslims in the west we have been repteadly attacked which were also unprovoked. The USA had done nothing to warrent the 9/11 attacks what so ever, and currently the most dangerous groups out there are Muslim, or claim to be. If they suddenly change and become "normal" like other groups then the focus will naturally shift to the largest most dangerous group that is causing problems. Which could be anything but right now its the followers of Islam and rightfully so. The west is not having issues with Chinese communists or Shintoists from Japan currently.


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## vivEnergy (Apr 27, 2010)

muslims are the new commies, the enemy to put down and convert


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## maj1n (Apr 27, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> Sure.. when they stop rioting over a cartoon and cease to make a big deal over it then yes. Just like how moderate christians dont make a fuss over jesus being drawn or depicted in a bad light. Sure you may get a few complaints but no death threats mass riots, "behead those who insult christianity" ect ect. Same goes for the other religions that are not making a big issue over having their deities drawn and made fun of.


Whats funny is that, according to any reliable statistic, Jews are still the no.1 most hated and most prejudiced religious group.

It is humbling to know that Jews have gone through, and are still going through, far far more shit then muslims ever have or ever will, and never really complain.


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 27, 2010)

Ok but Jews are not causing massive riots boycotting products or killing people over mere films. And what reliable stats are you talking about? And Aside from Israel I have not seen any news worthy article posted about extremist jews causing issues for a long time now... especially when compared to Muslims.


----------



## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 27, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> Sure.. when they stop rioting over a cartoon and cease to make a big deal over it then yes.


If somebody thought it was okay to murder gays, christians and jews, etc. do you think they and their belief is deserving of respect?


----------



## maj1n (Apr 27, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> Ok but Jews are not causing massive riots boycotting products or killing people over mere films. And what reliable stats are you talking about? And Aside from Israel I have not seen any news worthy article posted about extremist jews causing issues for a long time now... especially when compared to Muslims.


I'm agreeing with you, i respect Jews because they are still the no.1 prejudiced religious group, but they don't do any harmful shit or whine as much as Muslims.


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## Jagon Fox (Apr 27, 2010)

i would love to get in on this, but i can't draw.


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## Mider T (Apr 27, 2010)

So they way to defeat al-Qaeda once and for all is to send them a bunch of cartoons so they can blow themselves up in anger, good to know.


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## Outlandish (Apr 27, 2010)

lmao it's pretty hilarious, say what u gotta say (well draw) then go into hiding 

imo a fringe reaction from a forum getting such a reaction is pretty ironic!



maj1n said:


> I'm agreeing with you, i respect Jews because they are still the no.1 prejudiced religious group, but they don't do any harmful shit or whine as much as Muslims.



nah they just oppress and kill a population while using the holocaust as an excuse and if anyone disagrees it's anti semite trust me no one has whining down like the jews


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 27, 2010)

> nah they just oppress and kill a population while using the holocaust as an excuse and if anyone disagrees it's anti semite trust me no one has whining down like the jews



BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!


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## Pilaf (Apr 27, 2010)

▂▃▅▅▅▃▂ 　 　　▲◢◤▀◥◣▃　▍◢◤
　　　　　　 ▂▅▓▓▅██████▇▅◢██▀　　 〓 ★ 〓
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　　　 ◢▓▓▆███▀▐ ▊▀▓▀█▓　　▓▲
　　 ◢▓▓▆██▀ ▼▍▍▲▌▐▓◥█▓▓██◣
　▃ ▓▆███▓ ▍▎▌▍▍▼▍▌▓ █████▅
▐█▓█████▃▼▌▐ ▐ ▌▍▼ ◢█████▓█◣
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███▓▓▀██■▀ 　　　　▀■▓▓█▓▓▓▓███
▐██◣▓▓■▀　 　▍▎　　 　 ▀■▓▓▓▓█■▀
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　 　 ◢▓█◣　◥〓▌　▐◥〓◤　　▃▓◢▉
　　▐▓█▓◣　　◢▍　 ▂◣　　 ◢▓███▋
　　 ███▓▓ ▐◣▃▅█▅　　▃▓████
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## Tleilaxu (Apr 27, 2010)




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## mystictrunks (Apr 27, 2010)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> Yep, it is. Libels are illegal, but this isn't a libel.



There are other ways to antagonize people with expression than libel.


----------



## Pilaf (Apr 27, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd1lw3rZATc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## IDGabrielHM (Apr 27, 2010)

Moderate muslims, are mafia wives.

They don't do enough not only in other countries but even in their own houses to put an end to this silly shit.  Apologists who say other people shouldn't poke the sleeping dragon with a stick need to re-read my batman analogy, else open a history book; the dragon is not sleeping.

Just because a religion is young doesn't mean its bad conduct is excused.  If it is indeed the true faith and the one and only word of the one true god, then its members should be working harder than any other faith to keep it clean and pure.


*Spoiler*: __ 



The problem is that if you actually do study and understand Islam, you understand that pure Islam is what's being practiced by the so-called fundamentalist radicals.
And that it is being practiced subversively by so, so, so, so many more.




When Catholics burned people at the stake for denying Christ, it was wrong.
And when Muslims burn people alive at the speed of kablooey for denying Allah, it's wrong.

No passes.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Apr 27, 2010)

Oh shit. I sense bombing and deaths coming up...


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 27, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> Moderate muslims, are mafia wives.
> 
> They don't do enough not only in other countries but even in their own houses to put an end to this silly shit.  Apologists who say other people shouldn't poke the sleeping dragon with a stick need to re-read my batman analogy, else open a history book; the dragon is not sleeping.
> 
> ...



Christians and Jews are still blowing/burning each other too. It has nothing to do with the age of the religion, extremists just like fucking people up. It's a fact of life.


----------



## Pilaf (Apr 27, 2010)

rawrawraw said:


> Oh shit. I sense bombing and deaths coming up...



Too fucking bad. Price we pay for freedom. If every mother fucker was too afraid of getting blown up to take a stand for freedom, America would have never been founded.

Just imagine.

Jefferson: "Hey guys I changed my mind about this whole declaration of independence thing. I'm afraid it'll piss off the Brits and they might try to kill us."


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 27, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> Too fucking bad. Price we pay for freedom. If every mother fucker was too afraid of getting blown up to take a stand for freedom, America would have never been founded.
> 
> Just imagine.
> 
> Jefferson: "Hey guys I changed my mind about this whole declaration of independence thing. I'm afraid it'll piss off the Brits and they might try to kill us."



Oh please. Breaking away from a country that the people feel is vastly unfair is completely different than antagonizing a vocal minority of loons.


----------



## IDGabrielHM (Apr 27, 2010)

Petty much.

I like not what you say, but I'll die to defend your right to say it.
vs
I like not what you say, and I'll die to take your life for saying it.

There seems to be an incompatibility of values.  Which extremist would you be most comfortable with, sitting idly by while confronted with what they do to the world?


----------



## Bender (Apr 27, 2010)

Bomb me now terrorist


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> Petty much.
> 
> I like not what you say, but I'll die to defend your right to say it.
> vs
> ...



The thing is Muslims have very little actual influence, if any, in the West. People getting killed over offending people isn't anymore of a threat to freedom of speech now than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Apr 28, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> Too fucking bad. Price we pay for freedom. If every mother fucker was too afraid of getting blown up to take a stand for freedom, America would have never been founded.
> 
> Just imagine.
> 
> Jefferson: "Hey guys I changed my mind about this whole declaration of independence thing. I'm afraid it'll piss off the Brits and they might try to kill us."



internet gangstas.

i know i wouldn't take thats shit if people were clowning me.  must be the ^ (use bro) in me.


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## Nodonn (Apr 28, 2010)

My 18th birthday is draw Mo day.

I'm a lucky fellow


----------



## Mintaka (Apr 28, 2010)




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## hcheng02 (Apr 28, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> The thing is Muslims have very little actual influence, if any, in the West. People getting killed over offending people isn't anymore of a threat to freedom of speech now than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.



I would say media networks censoring themselves because they fear for their lives seems like a good amount of influence to me. Compare the "acceptable" discourse between Muslims and terrorism vs Catholics and the p*d*p**** sex scandals.


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

hcheng02 said:


> I would say media networks censoring themselves because they fear for their lives seems like a good amount of influence to me. Compare the "acceptable" discourse between Muslims and terrorism vs Catholics and the p*d*p**** sex scandals.



The media discusses things involving Muslim countries and Muslims within their own community with the same respect they do Christians when problems arise involving them. Networks do the same stuff when Christian terrorists threaten them, people just don't like getting blown up.


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## impersonal (Apr 28, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> The thing is Muslims have very little actual influence, if any, in the West. People getting killed over offending people isn't anymore of a threat to freedom of speech now than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.


That just makes no sense whatsoever. People actually get killed because of offdended radical muslims and death threats are quite common. The media does censor itself.

If you mean that Muslim influence is low compared to corporate influence or political corruption of the media, then you're right.

But I don't think that's what you mean.


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## Luxiano (Apr 28, 2010)

Dis must be freedom of speechz !

Funny that "revolutionmuslims" are composed of 10-20 people at best and muslims don't give a darn about south park.



> The Revolution Muslim representative also tells Gawker that most Americans are "dumbed down, stupid and pathetic. They're worried more about missing their favourite TV show than they are about the world."


Have to agree with him on that though.


----------



## abcd (Apr 28, 2010)

Luxiano said:


> Dis must be freedom of speechz !
> 
> Funny that "revolutionmuslims" are composed of 10-20 people at best and muslims don't give a darn about south park.
> 
> ...



No I dont agree with him ....

 Censoring a TV show is censorship of thought on one level.... The fact that there was nothing censored in this show except for Mohhammed and the fact that the website owner sent the death threat shows the importance of this pathetic little TV show as compared to the "world"


----------



## mayumi (Apr 28, 2010)

its pretty much a stereotype like the west generally considers most muslims and islam as something associated with terrorists. most people just not he middle east or muslims, just asia in general consider people in the west total morons and idiots.


----------



## impersonal (Apr 28, 2010)

mayumi said:


> its pretty much a stereotype like the west *generally considers most muslims and islam as something associated with terrorists*. most people just not he middle east or muslims, just asia in general consider people in the west total morons and idiots.



Where are you from? _Extremist_ Muslims are indeed often terrorists and are indeed threatening freedom of speech. Asia in general doesn't do that.


----------



## andamaru (Apr 28, 2010)

in before needless deaths


----------



## Rikudou (Apr 28, 2010)

The Muslim world needs to get through this 
They must extend their short fuses.


----------



## andamaru (Apr 28, 2010)

Rikudou said:


> The Muslim world needs to get through this
> They must extend their short fuses.



It isn't the whole Muslim world, it's the irrational Muslim world. Stuff like common sense and knowledge isn't given out in the training camps


----------



## xenopyre (Apr 28, 2010)

Though I dont care about you drawing mohamed , budha , god or anyone , I think that American media helped this ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) more than they ever dreamed of , who would have heard of this site until it was portrayed in the media ,I think that if Comedy Central just ignored them , there wouldnt be any  tension .


----------



## abcd (Apr 28, 2010)

mayumi said:


> its pretty much a stereotype like the west generally considers most muslims and islam as something associated with terrorists. most people just not he middle east or muslims, just asia in general consider people in the west total morons and idiots.



Where r u from ? Cos thats a gross generalization u have there


----------



## Rikudou (Apr 28, 2010)

andamaru said:


> It isn't the whole Muslim world, it's the irrational Muslim world. Stuff like common sense and knowledge isn't given out in the training camps



Yeah that's what I mean.


----------



## Pilaf (Apr 28, 2010)

If you believe a magical sky daddy makes rules for your life, you ARE irrational. There's no such thing as a rational religious person. If you're religious, you have the mentality of a broze age goat herder.


----------



## Mael (Apr 28, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> If you believe a magical sky daddy makes rules for your life, you ARE irrational. There's no such thing as a rational religious person. If you're religious, you have the mentality of a broze age goat herder.



Obvious troll is obvious.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Apr 28, 2010)

Mael said:


> Obvious troll is obvious.



It's not trolling if its true,it is true


----------



## Mael (Apr 28, 2010)

Diceman said:


> It's not trolling if its true,it is true



Still goading people into angry responses, truth or no truth.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Apr 28, 2010)

Mael said:


> Still goading people into angry responses, truth or no truth.



They just can't handle the truth


----------



## Mist Puppet (Apr 28, 2010)

Wait, drawing pictures of some dude is supposed to be me using my freedom of speech?

Say what?


----------



## Mael (Apr 28, 2010)

Diceman said:


> They just can't handle the truth


----------



## IDGabrielHM (Apr 28, 2010)

andamaru said:


> *It isn't the whole Muslim world*, it's the irrational Muslim world. Stuff like common sense and knowledge isn't given out in the training camps


Yes it is.  It's not the whole Arabian World, but it is the whole Muslim world.  Muslim, means that you take your cues from the Koran, and the Koran tells them to go out and kill, period.  Any Christian or Jew is an infidel, Allah commands you to go out and kill infidels until none are left, if a Jew ever falls under your power kill them.  Anywhere Islam exists in the world this sort of behavior will naturally arise, because it's not extremist Islam, it's orthodox Islam.  It's in the core document and can't be pulled out.





xenopyre said:


> Though I dont care about you drawing mohamed , budha , god or anyone , I think that American media helped this ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) more than they ever dreamed of , who would have heard of this site until it was portrayed in the media ,*I think that if Comedy Central just ignored them , there wouldnt be any  tension .*


I'm sure if everyone had just ignored the controversy around that Danish fellow a Muslim extremist wouldn't have murdered him.

Oh wait, that makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## Ryan (Apr 28, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> Yes it is.  It's not the whole Arabian World, but it is the whole Muslim world.  Muslim, means that you take your cues from the Koran, and the Koran tells them to go out and kill, period.  Any Christian or Jew is an infidel, Allah commands you to go out and kill infidels until none are left, if a Jew ever falls under your power kill them.  Anywhere Islam exists in the world this sort of behavior will naturally arise, because it's not extremist Islam, it's orthodox Islam.



Not really.


----------



## IDGabrielHM (Apr 28, 2010)

^ YaRly,

Don't just take my word for it.  Read it.


----------



## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 28, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> There are other ways to antagonize people with expression than libel.


None are illegal, except threats on a person's well being. 



mystictrunks said:


> The thing is Muslims have very little actual influence, if any, in the West.


You mean in the United States. Hasn't France basically capitulated to the muslims and their bitching for sharia law?


----------



## Ryan (Apr 28, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> ^ YaRly,
> 
> Don't just take my word for it.  Read it.



Read what exactly? I'm a Muslim, btw.


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

impersonal said:


> That just makes no sense whatsoever. People actually get killed because of offdended radical muslims and death threats are quite common. The media does censor itself.
> 
> If you mean that Muslim influence is low compared to corporate influence or political corruption of the media, then you're right.
> 
> But I don't think that's what you mean.



The media censors itself over death threats of any kind and get styled on by any radical violent movement they investigate. 


And I said earlier that corporate influences are way worse than anything coming from broke radical loons.


----------



## IDGabrielHM (Apr 28, 2010)

Ryan said:


> Read *what* exactly? I'm a Muslim, btw.



........?


....the Koran/Qur'an/القرآن

Have you read through it?  Do you have a favorite verse or collection of verse, or favorite surah?

If you want to quick reference what I'm talking about you can start with the 8th Surah.  You wont have to go far before you start to see it.  The outright declaration of holy war comes up around the 6th or 7th set.

You could also read the Sunnah, the history and habits of Muhammad the Prophet.  His habits included things like slaughtering civilian merchant caravans with mercenaries, robbing them, executing the men, raping the women by lots, and selling the children into slavery, and the waging of near-constant armed conflict up until the last days of his life.  Granted, he did get a late start.  Getting a handle on Islam's history and Muhammad's history is also important because it helps establish a time line of events which allows you to, if you so desire, re-read the Koran in chronological order.  The Koran is sometimes described as a cryptic, jumpy or eclectic book; when you actually put it in order it makes a lot more sense and traces a much clearer progression into the pattern of violence.

I don't discredit you for not being well read on the holy books (if that's the case), most christians too would rather thump their bibles than open them.  It's the human condition.


----------



## Ryan (Apr 28, 2010)

not really, i read the quran daily, and i know almost everything about it


----------



## mayumi (Apr 29, 2010)

impersonal said:


> Where are you from? _Extremist_ Muslims are indeed often terrorists and are indeed threatening freedom of speech. Asia in general doesn't do that.



Yes extremists muslims are terrorists but where did i say that they weren't? I am from India and from a state that has large muslim population. You think people here give a damn about some south park episode? there are alot of bad things that happen in my state but no one here overreacts to some stupid cartoon like people in the west assume because moderate muslims don't speak up or crap like that.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)




----------



## abcd (Apr 29, 2010)

mayumi said:


> Yes extremists muslims are terrorists but where did i say that they weren't? I am from India and from a state that has large muslim population. You think people here give a damn about some south park episode? there are alot of bad things that happen in my state but no one here overreacts to some stupid cartoon like people in the west assume because moderate muslims don't speak up or crap like that.



In india they have more things to worry about like fighting with the hindus ,  If a mosque or Temple should be built in a place etc, They dont have time to worry about trivial stuff


----------



## IDGabrielHM (Apr 30, 2010)

Ryan said:


> not really, i read the quran daily, and i know almost everything about it


That's great.


Mind telling me how you missed all of that, then?
I'm guessing you've read the whole thing at least two times by now, if not likely more.  So.....how'd you miss that _multiple_ times?  How'd you miss Allah giving it the task of every Muslim to leave their homes and go out to kill infidels until none are left?


----------



## Aina (May 1, 2010)

Hey! This sounds like fun.


----------



## Enigma (May 1, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> Yes it is.  It's not the whole Arabian World, but it is the whole Muslim world.  Muslim, means that you take your cues from the Koran, and the Koran tells them to go out and kill, period.  Any Christian or Jew is an infidel, Allah commands you to go out and kill infidels until none are left, if a Jew ever falls under your power kill them.  Anywhere Islam exists in the world this sort of behavior will naturally arise, because it's not extremist Islam, it's orthodox Islam.  It's in the core document and can't be pulled out.I'm sure if everyone had just ignored the controversy around that Danish fellow a Muslim extremist wouldn't have murdered him..



The Quran was revealed at the time when Muslims were at war with Pagan Arabs, Christians, and Jews. They were killing and persecuting Muslims because they didn't follow their beliefs. That's what the verses of killing the infidels which are from. A Muslim cannot kill any innocent person. Period.


----------



## T-Pein™ (May 1, 2010)

not drawing Mohammed =/= Terrorist win
If you don't draw him =/= you are supporting Terrorism


Seriously 
By drawing him more earthquakes are going to happen


----------



## superattackpea (May 1, 2010)

Red said:


> Everyone draw Mohammad day? More like "everyone gather together and antagonize a religious sect because of a few vocal idiots day".
> 
> Seriously, don't you guys think that this may antagonize the moderate Muslims who don't support the radicals or their threats but also don't like the idea of people making a mockery of something they hold dear?
> 
> Dick move imo. I get trying to send a message to the radicals about freedom of speech but that's like nuking your house to get rid of the pest problem. It works, but yeah.



When our country (at least those of you who live in America), which is founded on the rights of freedom of speech has it's media paralyzed in fear over drawing a picture of someone, it's time to take action. This isn't about antagonizing anyone, it's about showing that we refused to be bullied by ideas of someone else.


----------



## Bender (May 1, 2010)

Religion is for idiots and people who join religion makes idiots out of sane people


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## mystictrunks (May 1, 2010)

superattackpea said:


> When our country (at least those of you who live in America), which is founded on the rights of freedom of speech has it's media paralyzed in fear over drawing a picture of someone, it's time to take action. This isn't about antagonizing anyone, it's about showing that we refused to be bullied by ideas of someone else.



Freedom of speech =/= right to say or do anything.


----------



## fantzipants (May 1, 2010)

Funny how people like to insult the traditions of others yet they hate it when foreigners burn the american flag. hypocrites


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## Razgriez (May 1, 2010)

fantzipants said:


> Funny how people like to insult the traditions of others yet they hate it when foreigners burn the american flag. hypocrites



I dont think you fully grasp whats going on in this thread.


----------



## NanoHaxial (May 1, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Freedom of speech =/= right to say or do anything.



Which nothing to do with the issue of Islam/Mohammed.

Self-censorship out of fear is perhaps the most dangerous form of censorship there is. Islam isn't special, there should be no double-standard. The recent South Park episode is the epitome of the entire issue.


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## IDGabrielHM (May 2, 2010)

~*Enigma*~ said:


> The Quran was revealed at the time when Muslims were at war with Pagan Arabs, Christians, and Jews. They were killing and persecuting Muslims because they didn't follow their beliefs. That's what the verses of killing the infidels which are from. A Muslim cannot kill any innocent person. Period.



-Muslims were the followers of Islam.
-Islam is the religion of Allah.
-Mohammad became Allah's prophet and communicated the Qur'an to others.

*........so if the Qur'an was revealed amid Pagans Christians and Jews slaughtering and oppressing these people.....how exactly were they doing it because they were Muslims?  Before the qur'ans existed?*

And don't give me that "oh you know what I meant" nonsense.  How are you having these people being historically persecuted for the fact that they were something that they couldn't have been yet, according to your very own timeline?


And if you're honestly going to try and tell me that Muslims never kill innocent people, I'm gonna have to call you out on being intensionally deceptive.  Muslims led by Mohammad himself killed _civilians_.  They didn't just kill, they also pillaged, and raped.
Chronologically the verses about fighting armed opponents came _after_ Mohammad and his Muslim troop of mercs had already been raiding trade caravans for years.  And they came _after_ Mohammad had led a troop against a civilian township who he'd previously had a treaty with agreeing to worship their gods along with his own, and sacked the city (the worshiping other gods part is where "the satanic verses" comes from).  And you're also forgetting when Mohammad sent his followers to murder a female town crier who spoke out against him, sending them to impale her to death in the night even as she was laying upon her bed nursing her infant child, unarmed.  They later questioned the act and were told not to feel bad about it.

Good Muslims serving Allah and his Prophet kill the living shit out of civilians.  O F T E N

And Mohammad _started_ preaching before he'd gotten in to armed military conflicts, not after.

But you're right to say that they don't kill innocents.  The part you left out was, there is no such thing as an _innocent infidel_ to a true Muslim.

When you tear something out to the roots, you don't take the armed roots and leave the unarmed roots in the ground; you wipe out all of it.  You fight them until _nothing_ is left.


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## Mintaka (May 2, 2010)

He's probably just being deceptive to cover for his religion.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 2, 2010)

~*Enigma*~ said:


> The Quran was revealed at the time when Muslims were at war with Pagan Arabs, Christians, and Jews. They were killing and persecuting Muslims because they didn't follow their beliefs. That's what the verses of killing the infidels which are from. A Muslim cannot kill any innocent person. Period.


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## dummy plug (May 2, 2010)

well i think one needs to accept that some guy would diss his Creator, or whoever he/she believes in, but making threats in retaliation wont really help matters


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## sadated_peon (May 2, 2010)

~*Enigma*~ said:


> The Quran was revealed at the time when Muslims were at war with Pagan Arabs, Christians, and Jews. They were killing and persecuting Muslims because they didn't follow their beliefs. That's what the verses of killing the infidels which are from. A Muslim cannot kill any innocent person. Period.



The key here is how you define "innocent"
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4[/YOUTUBE]


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## maj1n (May 2, 2010)

~*Enigma*~ said:


> The Quran was revealed at the time when Muslims were at war with Pagan Arabs, Christians, and Jews. They were killing and persecuting Muslims because they didn't follow their beliefs. That's what the verses of killing the infidels which are from. A Muslim cannot kill any innocent person. Period.


Wrong.

Muslims and pagans in mecca erupted into conflict because Muhammad kept preaching that their religions were evil (essentially following the devil), both Muslims and pagans fought each other, although it is notable the pagan leaders tried to peacefully end the conflict by telling Muhammad he could preach so long as he stopped saying their religions and forefathers were evil.

Funny how Muslims aren't really aware that Muhammad essentially did worse then the cartoons.


Jews were considered valid to start a war with, only because of having trade alliances with Meccan's, it would be akin to something like America going to war with China because they trade with Iran.

Christians, at no real point in early Islam, persecuted Muslims in Arabia, though the opposite was definitely true.


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (May 2, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> -Muslims were the followers of Islam.
> -Islam is the religion of Allah.
> -Mohammad became Allah's prophet and communicated the Qur'an to others.
> 
> ...


And what he meant was, those verses in Quran, were said during the times of war when muslims were persecuted, I dunno how hard it is to understand, unless you mean Quran, as in when it was first written.

Can you please provide evidence for this?


----------



## maj1n (May 2, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> And what he meant was, those verses in Quran, were said during the times of war when muslims were persecuted, I dunno how hard it is to understand, unless you mean Quran, as in when it was first written.
> 
> Can you please provide evidence for this?


Muslim's weren't being persecuted, it is written even in the Quran that after Muhammad left, there were Muslims living in Mecca and chose to stay behind.

Of course Muhammad and his companions labelled them as traitors that ought to be killed, which puts the whole early history of Islam as being very nonsensical and contradictory.

Since we get many varied and contradictory attitudes of early Muslims being the 'oppressed' then other stories were their the ones doing all the killing and oppressing.

Regardless,those 'kill the infidel' verses, specifically mention killing Christians/Jews on account of their belief, not anything of oppression, so the Quran's message is still morally reprehensible.


----------



## impersonal (May 2, 2010)

mayumi said:


> Yes extremists muslims are terrorists but where did i say that they weren't? I am from India and from a state that has large muslim population. You think people here give a damn about some south park episode? there are alot of bad things that happen in my state but no one here overreacts to some stupid cartoon like people in the west assume because moderate muslims don't speak up or crap like that.





			
				mayumi said:
			
		

> its pretty much a stereotype like the west generally considers most muslims and islam as something associated with terrorists. most people just not he middle east or muslims, just asia in general consider people in the west total morons and idiots.


Well, for your information, people in the west do not consider muslims in particular or Asians in general to be _"total morons and idiots"_.  That would be a gross stereotype.

You seem to have a very crude "us and them" mentality.


----------



## Outlandish (May 2, 2010)

ziggy stop debating ayas with these laymens they obviously have never studied history before. 

lol sedated anjem chaudry tooo funny


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 2, 2010)

I'm just waiting what major world disaster will be blamed on this eventualy .

Earhquakes ? Famine ? Aids ? Only Tehran may tell .

Also , any "straight up" negative responses from clerics yet ?



fuuki said:


> Anyone remember the Lars Vilks' cartoon controversy? Anyone see those drawings? Seriously...



I remember seeing a documentary where this guy went on talking to the most severe of these clerics that condemned them and it turns out they didn't even see how the pictures looked like until the guy showed them .


----------



## sadated_peon (May 2, 2010)

Outlandish said:


> lol sedated anjem chaudry tooo funny



He is a great example of a specific interpretation of the Quran.

I am sure you have your own.


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (May 2, 2010)

maj1n said:


> Muslim's weren't being persecuted, it is written even in the Quran that after Muhammad left, there were Muslims living in Mecca and chose to stay behind.
> 
> Of course Muhammad and his companions labelled them as traitors that ought to be killed, which puts the whole early history of Islam as being very nonsensical and contradictory.
> 
> ...



I dunno where you learnt this honestly, from what I know, there were some who migrated because of the perscution, and there some who didn't and stayed muslim in secret(which seems logical as not all muslims had enough money to travel to Habasha/Madina, and the meccans didn't know they were muslims so they wouldn't be perscuted).

Which verses are those? as far as I know, in Islam you are even allowed to marry Jews, Christians (men only though), but you are not allowed to marry someone from a non-Ibrahamic religion.

Also aren't there many verses in the Bible and Torah that promote violence as well. :/


----------



## Enigma (May 2, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> -Muslims were the followers of Islam.
> -Islam is the religion of Allah.
> -Mohammad became Allah's prophet and communicated the Qur'an to others.
> 
> ...



Muhammad was a prophet and was conveying his message *before* the Quran was revealed to him. Additionally, verses from the Quran appear in dispersed places and no order can be ascertained from the sequence of its text.

In the Quran, the principle of fighting is purely self-defense.

_"Permission [to fight] is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged and, verily, God has indeed the power to succour them; those who have been driven from their homelands against all right for no other reason than their saying, 'Our sustainer is God!'" (22:39-40).
_
Along with this:

"And fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you..."

I never said Muslims never kill innocent people. There are many that do. I just said that they are not allowed to.

_“We ordained that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.” (5:32)_

This is one of the many important verses in the Quran, which many terrorists seem to ignore.

Now, anyone can commit acts of terror and aggression and say, "it's in self-defense." In fact, that is precisely what Al Qaeda is doing: they claim by killing 3,000 people in New York City and Washington, D.C., they are "defending" the Muslim nation against "Zionist and Crusader" aggression against the Muslims. Bullshit.

And I want to see your proof of the claims that Muhammad did what you said.

Also, the Quran clearly states:

_"...but if they desist, then all hostility shall cease, save against those who [willfully] do wrong" (2:193)._

Thus, it is quite clear that fighting is in self-defense, and aggression is not allowed. Now, Muslims have waged wars of aggression in the past, for sure, and they even called them "jihad against the infidels" in order to justify their desire for territorial expansion. In fact, one of the most pertinent examples of this was the Ummayad Dynasty, which enacted a policy of "jihad" as perpetual warfare. But, such a policy is not Islamically correct, and as the collapse of the Ummayad Dynasty showed, not sustainable.

There are some who claim that the only reason the Meccans opposed the Prophet was because he reviled their gods. This is not exactly true. Indeed, the Prophet did revile their gods. Yet, the Qur'an directed him to stop, when the pagans threatened to revile God in revenge:
_
"But do not revile those [beings] whom they invoke instead of God, lest they revile God out of spite and in ignorance: for goodly indeed have We made their own doings appear unto every community. In time, [however], unto their Sustainer they must return: and then He will make them [truly] understand all that they were doing" (6:108)._

When the prophet stopped, the pagans did not. In fact, it only increased. They resorted to physical torture of anyone who converted to Islam. In fact, they killed two people, Sumaya and Yasser, when they refused to give up Islam.


----------



## maj1n (May 2, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> I dunno where you learnt this honestly, from what I know, there were some who migrated because of the perscution, and there some who didn't and stayed muslim in secret(which seems logical as not all muslims had enough money to travel to Habasha/Madina, and the meccans didn't know they were muslims so they wouldn't be perscuted).


You know i did a search on my previous posts, you asked this exact question before, and i posted it before.

The nastiest thing I saw the Quraysh do to the Messenger occurred when their nobles assembled in the Hijr
"_We have never seen the kind of trouble we have endured from this fellow. He has derided our traditional values, declared our way of life foolish, abused and insulted our forefathers, reviled our religion, caused division among us, divided the community, and cursed our gods."'"
We have endured a great deal from him.' While they were saying this, the Apostle walked up and kissed the Black Stone. Then he performed the circumambulation of the Ka'aba. As he did they said some injurious things about him. I could see from the Messenger's face that he had heard them. When he passed a second time they made similar remarks. When he passed them the third time, the Prophet stopped and said, 'Hear me, O Quraysh. By Him who holds Muhammad’s life in his hand, I will bring you slaughter.'"_
-Tabari 101

_One time, theses people went out of Makkah to fulfill some needs and said to each other, "If we meet the Companions of Muhammad, there will be no harm for us from their side.'' When the believers got news that these people went out of Makkah, some of them said, "Let us march to these cowards and kill them, because they support your enemy against you.'' However, another group from the believers said, "Glory be to Allah! Do you kill a people who say as you have said, just because they did not perform Hijrah or leave their land Is it allowed to shed their blood and confiscate their money in this case''_ 
-Ibn Kathir

So we have early Muslim sources stating the worst the Quraish did was simply verbal insults, and we have another where Muslims who went back, had the large risk of being killed by their fellow Muslims.



			
				-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:
			
		

> Which verses are those? as far as I know, in Islam you are even allowed to marry Jews, Christians (men only though), but you are not allowed to marry someone from a non-Ibrahamic religion.


In Islamic law, Christian/Jewish men cannot marry muslim women.

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. 

9:30 And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

It is very clear, that the command to fight them was based on their belief (for Christians, it is tre trinity).



			
				-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:
			
		

> Also aren't there many verses in the Bible and Torah that promote violence as well. :/


I am not Christian nor Jewish, so i don't support these either.



			
				Enigma said:
			
		

> There are some who claim that the only reason the Meccans opposed the Prophet was because he reviled their gods. This is not exactly true. Indeed, the Prophet did revile their gods. Yet, the Qur'an directed him to stop, when the pagans threatened to revile God in revenge:
> _
> "But do not revile those [beings] whom they invoke instead of God, lest they revile God out of spite and in ignorance: for goodly indeed have We made their own doings appear unto every community. In time, [however], unto their Sustainer they must return: and then He will make them [truly] understand all that they were doing"_ (6:108).
> 
> When the prophet stopped, the pagans did not. In fact, it only increased. They resorted to physical torture of anyone who converted to Islam. In fact, they killed two people, Sumaya and Yasser, when they refused to give up Islam.


Really? Islamic sources pretty much state the Quraish were happy with the Muslims after this, and even prayed with them in their mosques.

_When the Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him. While the Muslims, trusting their Prophet in respect to the messages which he brought, did not suspect him of a vain desire or slip. When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, obeying his command and following his example.
Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. Then they all dispersed from the mosque_
-Al Tabari

Of course everything was later reversed when apparently Muhammad said Satan made him say these nice things about the other gods, and by extension the pagans were following Satan.
_
Thus Allah removed the sorrow from his Messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared, and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, that their gods were exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses) whose intercession was accepted with approval. He now revealed, following the mention of 'Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.' the words: 'are yours the males and his the females? That indeed is an unfair division! They are but names which you and your fathers have given.' to the words: 'to whom he wills and accepts._
-Al Tabari

Which is a reflection of the Quranic verse.

53:20 And Manat, the third, the other ? 	
53:21 Are yours the males and His the females ?
53:30 Such is their sum of knowledge. Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth, and He is Best Aware of him whom goeth right.
31 And unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth, that *He may reward those who do evil with that which they have done,* and reward those who do good with goodness.


----------



## fantzipants (May 5, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> I dont think you fully grasp whats going on in this thread.



What i understand is that people are maliciously looking for trouble by messing with a belief and tradition that they do not belong to because they feel muslims are reacting unjustly, because they (non muslims) feel that islam ( a religion they do not practice) should be practiced or not practiced acoording to their  ( non muslim) views: aka imperialism. i mean you don't see this in latin america where there is a TON of muslims.you know why? because no one cares.so what it the man prays to the east. if you don't know mohamed then don't draw him.big deal. if you think their actions are barbaric then don't mess with them. They stay on their side of the fence and you on yours.If the man doesn't eat pork then offer chicken.

i love this country more than anyone since i migrated here for a better life but i don't understand about the fuss about the dumbest things. so what if someone is gay,if she's a lesbian, Jewish, muslim,or a goth.who cares seriously. Freedom of speech is great but that doesn't give anyone the right to stir the pot and be rude.or does it?i don't believe in hinduism but you don't see me drawing hindu beliefs in ways that offends others.i couldn't care less.That's just looking for trouble and if you know that such actions hurts people in some way and have large repercussions then you get what you deserve because you have no business with it. 

Why do people have such a need to inforce their beliefs on religions or beliefs that they do not want to. The greek helenists tried the same with the jews and the jews revolted.you cannot force to change other peoples way of life.They like being muslim and they will not let anyone change it.accept it


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## GrimaH (May 5, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> Also aren't there many verses in the Bible and Torah that promote violence as well. :/



Yes there are, and they're poked at regularly as well.

Sorry about ruining your persecution complex there.


----------



## abcd (May 5, 2010)

fantzipants said:


> What i understand is that people are maliciously looking for trouble by messing with a belief and tradition that they do not belong to because they feel muslims are reacting unjustly, because they (non muslims) feel that islam ( a religion they do not practice) should be practiced or not practiced acoording to their  ( non muslim) views: aka imperialism. i mean you don't see this in latin america where there is a TON of muslims.you know why? because no one cares.so what it the man prays to the east. if you don't know mohamed then don't draw him.big deal. if you think their actions are barbaric then don't mess with them. They stay on their side of the fence and you on yours.If the man doesn't eat pork then offer chicken.
> 
> i love this country more than anyone since i migrated here for a better life but i don't understand about the fuss about the dumbest things. so what if someone is gay,if she's a lesbian, Jewish, muslim,or a goth.who cares seriously. Freedom of speech is great but that doesn't give anyone the right to stir the pot and be rude.or does it?i don't believe in hinduism but you don't see me drawing hindu beliefs in ways that offends others.i couldn't care less.That's just looking for trouble and if you know that such actions hurts people in some way and have large repercussions then you get what you deserve because you have no business with it.
> 
> Why do people have such a need to inforce their beliefs on religions or beliefs that they do not want to. The greek helenists tried the same with the jews and the jews revolted.you cannot force to change other peoples way of life.They like being muslim and they will not let anyone change it.accept it



1) No one u mentioned wants to force their belief system on anyone (well atleast southpark is not trying to do that)
2) When u move to another country u should understand that culture and mould urself to it. It is ur right to remain as u are but u should not try to change their culture.... South park for instance has been running for more than 5 years and is doing the same with every religion ... If it is not taken seriously by the people of that culture, U shud ignore it too. It is a problem if they try to force the show in middle east which will never happen
3) Buddha and Vishnu were drawn in the very same episode with one smoking cocaine ... No reaction was seen from any group :/

U r misunderstanding the issue and u are feeling as if Islam is the ony religion targeted for fun .


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## superattackpea (May 5, 2010)

fantzipants said:


> What i understand is that people are maliciously looking for trouble by messing with a belief and tradition that they do not belong to because they feel muslims are reacting unjustly, because they (non muslims) feel that islam ( a religion they do not practice) should be practiced or not practiced acoording to their  ( non muslim) views: aka imperialism. i mean you don't see this in latin america where there is a TON of muslims.you know why? because no one cares.so what it the man prays to the east. if you don't know mohamed then don't draw him.big deal. if you think their actions are barbaric then don't mess with them. They stay on their side of the fence and you on yours.If the man doesn't eat pork then offer chicken.
> 
> i love this country more than anyone since i migrated here for a better life but i don't understand about the fuss about the dumbest things. so what if someone is gay,if she's a lesbian, Jewish, muslim,or a goth.who cares seriously. Freedom of speech is great but that doesn't give anyone the right to stir the pot and be rude.or does it?i don't believe in hinduism but you don't see me drawing hindu beliefs in ways that offends others.i couldn't care less.That's just looking for trouble and if you know that such actions hurts people in some way and have large repercussions then you get what you deserve because you have no business with it.
> 
> Why do people have such a need to inforce their beliefs on religions or beliefs that they do not want to. The greek helenists tried the same with the jews and the jews revolted.you cannot force to change other peoples way of life.They like being muslim and they will not let anyone change it.accept it



So you're saying killing someone because they draw a picture is okay? That kinda contradicts you saying leave people alone you don't understand.

Also you nor anyone else alive today, Muslim or not, knows Mohammad. All you know are stories about him written in a book, you know Mohammad as well as I know Harry Potter.


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## Outlandish (May 5, 2010)

sadated_peon said:


> He is a great example of a specific interpretation of the Quran.
> 
> I am sure you have your own.



No i don't make my own Itijihad of Quran and Hadeeth like you and maj1n do instead of just asking for the opinion of one of the 4 schools of fiqh which 98/99% of muslims follow. It does boggles me that a person on an anime forum has not posted outside a thread that is not related to Islam though  

HT is a minority group and very small in number, you pushing there views off as something accepted or normal just shows me far you're willing to look for _your_ answer.

i'll say it again

laymens without any knowledge of history if what your saying is correct it does not go with the majority of Islamic history.


----------



## Outlandish (May 5, 2010)

A majority opinion for you i'm sure you'll post more videos of Anjem and his crew but i'll post this in your benefit. 

Answered by Ustadha Zaynab Ansari, SunniPath Academy Teacher 



> Does the koran teach to kill, tax or convert infidels as a general principle? Also does the Koran teach that in the last day trees will cry out there is a Jew behind me come and kill him?






> In the Name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
> 
> Dear Brother,
> 
> ...


----------



## Outlandish (May 5, 2010)

cont



> And, the Qur'an also states, "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Qur'an, 2:256)
> 
> Today, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Today, as yesterday, and in centuries past, Islam speaks to people's hearts with the beautiful message that There is no god but God and Muhammad is His Messenger.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mael (May 5, 2010)

Outlandish said:


> cont



So basically Christianity/Judaism = exclusionist, and Islam = all-accepting?



Scripture may dictate it, but betting you ten to one that the real bad folks of Islam aren't that accepting and will convert by the sword.  And this also poses a problem to atheists/agnostics and doesn't even bother to mention Hindus and Buddhists.


----------



## Aokiji (May 5, 2010)

What a bunch of ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


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## Deleted member 174958 (May 5, 2010)

Fuckin' joined. 

Nobody should be able to threaten others no matter what.


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## maj1n (May 5, 2010)

Outlandish said:
			
		

> The biography of the Prophet Muhammad, Allah bless him and give him peace, makes it very clear that the Prophet preached peacefully for the first 13 years of his mission.


Actually this is an outright lie, all biographies, which would be AL-tabari and Ibn Rushd, show that Muslims participated in the conflict in Mecca during Muhammds preaching, and that Muhammad did declare he would kill the Quraish during his 'peaceful' preaching.

When he passed them the third time, the Prophet stopped and said, 'Hear me, O Quraysh. By Him who holds Muhammad?s life in his hand, I will bring you slaughter.'"
-Tabari 6



			
				Outlandish said:
			
		

> Even as Islam spread beyond the borders of Arabia into the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires (Syria and Persia), non-Muslims were accorded certain rights. If they accepted the authority of the new Islamic government, then treaties were concluded and the non-Muslims paid a special tax, called a jizya. The options were not convert, die,


Another outright lie, which can be seen in the Quran.
_
9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. _

and Hadith
_

Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them
-http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/019.smt.html#019.4294_



			
				Outlandish said:
			
		

> The Ottomans created a multi-confessional, multi-ethnic millet system where Muslims, Christian, and Jews lived together in peace. In fact, the Ottomans' elite military corp, the Janissaries, were predominantly Christian.


Guess you've never heard of the pogroms on Jews in the Ottoman Empire? ot the Armenian massacre?



			
				Outlandish said:
			
		

> The Qur'an says, "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah (God) and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an, 2:62)


This is referring to Christians and Jews before (supposedly) they corrupted their text, as later verses pretty much state Allah will fight them.

9:30 And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

Context of this verse is that Muhammad didn't want children of a religions parents raised in another religion, this verse was revealed to stop the Ansari Jews from doing that.


----------



## fantzipants (May 5, 2010)

superattackpea said:


> So you're saying killing someone because they draw a picture is okay? That kinda contradicts you saying leave people alone you don't understand.
> 
> Also you nor anyone else alive today, Muslim or not, knows Mohammad. All you know are stories about him written in a book, you know Mohammad as well as I know Harry Potter.



nope but if you know that it offends people to draw mohammed and you draw him and understand what people will do according to their beliefs then you get what you deserve.it doesn't matter if you do it from half way around the world or if you are in said country. you are looking for trouble. people are just egging them on to prove a point.

so you are saying that it's ok to burn the american flag because they are not in america? it's not even if you are on the moon it's not right. why because it offends the symbol of the amrican people and i can bet you that some american will kill a person because of it.


----------



## N120 (May 5, 2010)

Outlandish said:


> No i don't make my own Itijihad of Quran and Hadeeth like you and maj1n do instead of just asking for the opinion of one of the 4 schools of fiqh which 98/99% of muslims follow. It does boggles me that a person on an anime forum has not posted outside a thread that is not related to Islam though
> 
> HT is a minority group and very small in number, you pushing there views off as something accepted or normal just shows me far you're willing to look for _your_ answer.
> 
> ...



Nothing wrong with your post brother, but i think your confusing HT with Ahlus-sunnah wal jamaat/saved sect/Al muhajiroun/al-gurabaa/islam4uk founded by sheikh Omar Bakri.

They are a completely different organisation and have different approaches/goals and objectives.

HT is actually a pretty large political organisation, in many countries and with a huge following/support which actually is growing Alhamdulillah.


----------



## Enigma (May 5, 2010)

Mael said:


> So basically Christianity/Judaism = exclusionist, and Islam = all-accepting?
> 
> 
> 
> Scripture may dictate it, but betting you ten to one that *the real bad folks of Islam aren't that accepting and will convert by the sword.*  And this also poses a problem to atheists/agnostics and doesn't even bother to mention Hindus and Buddhists.



The people aren't the religion.


----------



## SxR (May 5, 2010)

No not again  fuck this shit man


----------



## hcheng02 (May 5, 2010)

fantzipants said:


> nope but if you know that it offends people to draw mohammed and you draw him and understand what people will do according to their beliefs then you get what you deserve.it doesn't matter if you do it from half way around the world or if you are in said country. you are looking for trouble. people are just egging them on to prove a point.
> 
> *so you are saying that it's ok to burn the american flag because they are not in america? it's not even if you are on the moon it's not right. why because it offends the symbol of the amrican people and i can bet you that some american will kill a person because of it.*



I'm an American, and we allow anyone to burn our flag whether they are in America or not. In fact, the Supreme Court ruled that it was a protected form of freedom of speech. Will you be very popular? No, but nobody is going to kill you for it. Anybody who does is going to be charged with murder. Freedom of speech means that you will hear people say things that you do not like, but you have to grin and bear it. The fact of the matter is that many muslims, including those who have posted in this thread, ultimately do not believe in freedom of speech.


----------



## Enigma (May 5, 2010)

Some Muslims are going to far with this murder crap.


----------



## N120 (May 6, 2010)

hcheng02 said:


> I'm an American, and we allow anyone to burn our flag whether they are in America or not. In fact, the Supreme Court ruled that it was a protected form of freedom of speech. Will you be very popular? No, but nobody is going to kill you for it. Anybody who does is going to be charged with murder. Freedom of speech means that you will hear people say things that you do not like, but you have to grin and bear it. The fact of the matter is that many muslims, including those who have posted in this thread, ultimately do not believe in freedom of speech.



no, there are boundries to freedom of speech. One cannot incite violence, make racist comments (in the work or public domain), cannot lie against someone or for someone/product without the risk of getting sued or like have a president/PM misinform his nation to go to war against another nation with nothing more than 'claims' to build up support...wait!

 consequences?


----------



## Spirit (May 6, 2010)

The classic act of taking refuge in "freedom of speech".

Freedom of speech should be fought for so people can be protected from liability when speaking in good will, not so it can be abused. Perhaps, freedom of speech doesn't appeal to some Muslims because as demonstrated by you, the upholder of oh-so-wonderful freedom of speech, only causes more problem and disorder than it should. 

You've already admitted that your version of freedom of speech is not an absolute freedom, which I assure you, the many Muslims residing in the West are very much there for the very freedom you're abusing. The many Muslims that are using the internet, this forum and thread to be specific, are pro-freedom of speech. Clearly though, since it is not an absolute freedom of speech, the concern is where exactly do you draw the line.  It is true that perhaps it will take time for some Muslims to once again grow a thicker skin, but my question to you is: to wilfully offend, isn't it not dissimilar from inciting violence reaction?

Do not mistake my idea of how a tool should be used for a total rejection of the tool itself. In no time, you'd make a fool out of yourself.


----------



## hcheng02 (May 6, 2010)

N120 said:


> no, there are boundries to freedom of speech. One cannot incite violence, make racist comments (in the work or public domain), cannot lie against someone or for someone/product without the risk of getting sued or like have a president/PM misinform his nation to go to war against another nation with nothing more than 'claims' to build up support...wait!
> 
> consequences?





Tokyo Jihen said:


> The classic act of taking refuge in "freedom of speech".
> 
> Freedom of speech should be fought for so people can be protected from liability when speaking in good will, not so it can be abused. Perhaps, freedom of speech doesn't appeal to some Muslims because as demonstrated by you, the upholder of oh-so-wonderful freedom of speech, only causes more problem and disorder than it should.
> 
> ...



No, to willfully offend is not the same as inciting violence. South Park willfully offends many religions and groups including Jews, Christians, Scientologists, etc. There was once an episode that depicted the Catholic Church as being primarily made up of pedophiles and worship a giant spider. The Catholic Church did not go and say that the writers deserve to be killed, unlike many of the people in this thread. South Park portrays Ethiopians as all starving famine victims who speak in clicks, and you do not hear Ethiopians threatening to harm the writers. 

Also, it is the Muslims who are inciting violence - as demonstrated by the muslims who say that people who draw these cartoons deserve to be killed. This is not a one off action, but a very consistent one that has happened time and time again. People have actually been killed - Theo Van Gogh for instance. Then you have the Muslim countries try to muzzle freedom of speech through the UN. It is a common and frankly expected reaction that Muslims respond to unpleasant portrayals with threats and violence. That is unacceptable. 

Freedom of speech is one of the foundations of Western society. If muslims are to live in the West, then they have to subject themselves to Western law. They are not forced to live in the West, they may leave whenever they wish. If they lack the ability to comply with those laws, then it is their responsibility to reject the powers and privileges of citizenship of living in the West and go to a place that befits their belief system.


----------



## Petenshi (May 6, 2010)

Hcheng, I agree that the freedom of speech is dear. But don't you agree that it is naive and stupid to go around angering people you know will react? I mean, its not rocket science. Should people bite their tongues just because they were threatened? No. However by the same token they should not continue to joke on something simply out of spite. Its trolling at its worst form, because instead of on the internet where we are all safe and our flames hurt no one, people in real life can die. In a time where we should be trying to separate the Muslims who wish to teach that the west is not such a bad place, from the crazy ones making fun of their religion for the sole purpose that they don't like it is in bad form.


----------



## hcheng02 (May 6, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Hcheng, I agree that the freedom of speech is dear. But don't you agree that it is naive and stupid to go around angering people you know will react? I mean, its not rocket science. Should people bite their tongues just because they were threatened? No. However by the same token they should not continue to joke on something simply out of spite. Its trolling at its worst form, because instead of on the internet where we are all safe and our flames hurt no one, people in real life can die. In a time where we should be trying to separate the Muslims who wish to teach that the west is not such a bad place, from the crazy ones making fun of their religion for the sole purpose that they don't like it is in bad form.



Living within a society means that you agree to abide by its laws. Its the entire basis of citizenship. Ultimately, its a social bargain. If they know that they cannot abide by those laws then its is THEIR responsibility to not take up the privileges and burdens of being a citizen in a Western country. If they decide to live here and act this way than the Western society has every right to bring the law down on them and to criticize their behavior until they change. The fault is entirely the radical muslims and not the Western society.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 6, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Hcheng, I agree that the freedom of speech is dear. But don't you agree that it is naive and stupid to go around angering people you know will react? I mean, its not rocket science. Should people bite their tongues just because they were threatened? No. However by the same token they should not continue to joke on something simply out of spite. Its trolling at its worst form, because instead of on the internet where we are all safe and our flames hurt no one, people in real life can die. In a time where we should be trying to separate the Muslims who wish to teach that the west is not such a bad place, from the crazy ones making fun of their religion for the sole purpose that they don't like it is in bad form.


Thing is that these people have no right to threaten or not be made fun of, people make fun of everything. They're feelings aren't special and no one really care.


----------



## Petenshi (May 6, 2010)

True True, but lets say North Korea threatened to use a Nuke on us unless we took a cartoon down. Would you still have the same attitude knowing North Korea is probably crazy enough to do it? I mean, I am sure knowing our other thread debates that you would probably say we would respond with force but that wouldn't stop THEM from using the Nuke it would probably only be a counter attack of another Nuke. Now, I know this is an extreme example but it just feels wrong to specifically make fun of a group simply because we know they get angry. Its just, ignorant.


----------



## maj1n (May 6, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> True True, but lets say North Korea threatened to use a Nuke on us unless we took a cartoon down. Would you still have the same attitude knowing North Korea is probably crazy enough to do it? I mean, I am sure knowing our other thread debates that you would probably say we would respond with force but that wouldn't stop THEM from using the Nuke it would probably only be a counter attack of another Nuke. Now, I know this is an extreme example but it just feels wrong to specifically make fun of a group simply because we know they get angry. Its just, ignorant.


If North Korea threatened to nuke my country if someone buy's a hamburger, and someone does buy a hamburger, and they do nuke.

I hold North Korea responsible only.


----------



## Petenshi (May 6, 2010)

maj1n said:


> If North Korea threatened to nuke my country if someone buy's a hamburger, and someone does buy a hamburger, and they do nuke.
> 
> I hold North Korea responsible only.



Just because they are responsible for the act doesn't mean we aren't naive when we probably could have prevented it. I am not shifting blame, only saying being the bigger man is sometimes smarter.


----------



## abcd (May 6, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> True True, but lets say North Korea threatened to use a Nuke on us unless we took a cartoon down. Would you still have the same attitude knowing North Korea is probably crazy enough to do it? I mean, I am sure knowing our other thread debates that you would probably say we would respond with force but that wouldn't stop THEM from using the Nuke it would probably only be a counter attack of another Nuke. Now, I know this is an extreme example but it just feels wrong to specifically make fun of a group simply because we know they get angry. Its just, ignorant.





Petenshi said:


> Just because they are responsible for the act doesn't mean we aren't naive when we probably could have prevented it. I am not shifting blame, only saying being the bigger man is sometimes smarter.



If we allow people to intimidate us so easily... We dont have freedom anymore.


----------



## Saufsoldat (May 6, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Just because they are responsible for the act doesn't mean we aren't naive when we probably could have prevented it. I am not shifting blame, only saying being the bigger man is sometimes smarter.



Would you then say not buying any more hamburgers is the right thing to do?


----------



## Soulbadguy (May 6, 2010)

Isn't this kinda mean to the mulisms that don't blow things up?

Which is like most of them?


----------



## Mael (May 6, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Just because they are responsible for the act doesn't mean we aren't naive when we probably could have prevented it. I am not shifting blame, only saying being the bigger man is sometimes smarter.



Why should we cater to the demands of extremists concerning the things we do within our own country? 

Poor attitude right there.


----------



## Petenshi (May 6, 2010)

abcd said:


> If we allow people to intimidate us so easily... We dont have freedom anymore.



If we continue to abuse our freedoms, we may regret it later.



Saufsoldat said:


> Would you then say not buying any more hamburgers is the right thing to do?



This is an interesting dilemma, no doubt. It depends on what you mean by right. If not eating hamburgers would save millions of lives, then that seems like a fair trade off to me. Though, its not like we would let it go. We would definitely try to sort it out while agreeing not eat hamburgers as a possible delaying tactic. Though the example he gave is a little different. We would have to know the North Koreans hated us eating hamburgers and ate them not because we liked them but because we know they hate them. Many People make jokes about Muhammad because they find it funny, then their are others who do it because they know extremist Muslims will react. An example is the recent text stick figure signature on this forum that says "This is Muhammed, etc...." they aren't putting it on their sig simply because its funny. They are doing it to spite everything they hear in the news about extremist Muslims getting upset. My whole point is that is a waste of time, why do that? We want to change our image to Muslims who may become extremists, this way we can prevent further nonsense and bloodshed. The way we can do this is by respecting the culture. I mean, do you go around daily and tell everyone their faults? "Hey, fatty! Your fat!" "Hey, Bald dude! Your Bald!" "Hey, police man! Your moms a whore!" Although you are using your right there to free speech, is it really worth it? We should use our rights when we need them, not just because they are there. 

@Mael There is no use going around insulting everything just because you can. Its not catering to the extremists, its ensuring that we aren't promoting an image that creates extremists in the first place. Or better said, leads to more extremists.


----------



## Kotoamatsukami (May 6, 2010)

hcheng02 said:


> No, to willfully offend is not the same as inciting violence. South Park willfully offends many religions and groups including Jews, Christians, Scientologists, etc. There was once an episode that depicted the Catholic Church as being primarily made up of pedophiles and worship a giant spider. The Catholic Church did not go and say that the writers deserve to be killed, unlike many of the people in this thread. South Park portrays Ethiopians as all starving famine victims who speak in clicks, and you do not hear Ethiopians threatening to harm the writers.
> 
> Also, it is the Muslims who are inciting violence - as demonstrated by the muslims who say that people who draw these cartoons deserve to be killed. This is not a one off action, but a very consistent one that has happened time and time again. People have actually been killed - Theo Van Gogh for instance. Then you have the Muslim countries try to muzzle freedom of speech through the UN. It is a common and frankly expected reaction that Muslims respond to unpleasant portrayals with threats and violence. That is unacceptable.
> 
> Freedom of speech is one of the foundations of Western society. If muslims are to live in the West, then they have to subject themselves to Western law. They are not forced to live in the West, they may leave whenever they wish. If they lack the ability to comply with those laws, then it is their responsibility to reject the powers and privileges of citizenship of living in the West and go to a place that befits their belief system.




I can repeat myself a thousand times. It is not ABOUT critizicing the Islam. It is about HOW you fucking do it. You do something they despise, something that is forbidden to them and something that they would NEVER do, no matter what. You draw ther prophet, the one and only person they give their prayers several times a day and expect them to interact with you as if you were only trying to lecture them and showing them the beauty of liberty and freedom of speech? Give me a break dude. The "war for freedom" is long over, it has been replaced by a bunch of hyprocites who are anxious about the future and the new rising powers in the world and try to compensate it by insulting their greatest scapegoat of the present world, the Islam. It is like fucking another wife in front of her husband and telling him to stop and watch how you think good sex looks like. So if you want to insult the Islam, just do it and everything is fine. But dont pretend to fight for any values, because you dont do that, you hypocrites. 

Oh and to make myself clear. If you need to insult other people to raise conciousness for freedom of speech, then fuck on this freedom of speech. I'd rather not insult religions, people or whatever instead of living in a society that has no limits concering respect and tolerance. Muslims dont do anything forbiddend by NOT drawing their prophet, thats part of their culture and they have the right to live it up wherever they want but you have no right to insult them in this despisable way.


----------



## Shasta McNasty (May 6, 2010)

Tokyo Jihen said:


> The classic act of taking refuge in "freedom of speech".
> 
> Freedom of speech should be fought for so people can be protected from liability when speaking in good will, not so it can be abused. Perhaps, freedom of speech doesn't appeal to some Muslims because as demonstrated by you, the upholder of oh-so-wonderful freedom of speech, only causes more problem and disorder than it should.
> 
> ...



Offensive, but not incendiary speech is protected.  No one has crossed that line.


----------



## vivEnergy (May 6, 2010)

Is Petenshi for real, oh man


----------



## Nodonn (May 6, 2010)

> Freedom of speech should be fought for so people can be protected from liability when speaking in good will



Guess what you idiot?
Good will does not need any protection.
Free speech exists to protect the less popular opinions.


----------



## DeLarge (May 10, 2010)

Mohammad for you...


----------



## Kahvehane (May 10, 2010)

All I want to say is it's about goddamn time.

No one is above criticism.

Edit:

I would also just like to add this -


----------



## Luxiano (May 10, 2010)

DeLarge said:


> Mohammad for you...



Considering how he was described he wouldn't look like that. :3


----------



## xenopyre (May 10, 2010)

Light Artist said:


> All I want to say is it's about goddamn time.
> 
> No one is above criticism.
> 
> ...


Oh! good now Islam will be more than popular among African Americans


----------



## sadated_peon (May 10, 2010)

Outlandish said:
			
		

> No i don't make my own Itijihad of Quran and Hadeeth like you and maj1n do instead of just asking for the opinion of one of the 4 schools of fiqh which 98/99% of muslims follow. It does boggles me that a person on an anime forum has not posted outside a thread that is not related to Islam though


Lol, except of course for the Shia who follow different fiqh, but you ignore that of course. 

But, lets ignore the obvious inaccuracies of your statement and go to the heart of the issue. 

I going to give you a direct example, go to the ?ask a question about Islam? thread and look at the all the different answers/reason that were given about is music forbidden in Islam. 

This is a single issue and you have a multitude of answer to this single subject. The personal interpretation of the Islamic religion is different for each person and each person accepts different things. 

Your idiotic statement that 4 schools(that don?t include all the schools) means that 98% Muslims think the same, even though the 4 schools are different so by their very nature means they don?t think the same.  

You can deny that there are differences in your own religion where you have groups in SA that don?t allow women to drive cars, or in Iran that support the current regime and its policies like killing gay people for being gay, or ignore the hundreds of other examples of different interpretations. 

IGNORE IT AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE!

But don?t come to me as though you know what the fuck you?re talking about. 



			
				Outlandish said:
			
		

> HT is a minority group and very small in number, you pushing there views off as something accepted or normal just shows me far you're willing to look for your answer.
> 
> i'll say it again
> 
> laymens without any knowledge of history if what your saying is correct it does not go with the majority of Islamic history.


The interpretation of people differs throughout the countries and throughout the world. There are liberal, moderate, conservative, and extreme interpretations and everything in-between.

You have extended a no-true Scotsman?s fallacy as far as I think it is possible. It is time for you to wake up and deal with reality.  

Because congrats, you are part of the problem of Islamic extremism, because Muslims like you refuse to deal with the problem because you are unwilling to accept there is one!


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 10, 2010)

sadated_peon said:


> Lol, except of course for the Shia who follow different fiqh, but you ignore that of course.
> 
> But, lets ignore the obvious inaccuracies of your statement and go to the heart of the issue.
> 
> ...



i'm always surprised by people who don't care for islam but seem to know _so many obscure details_ about it.  It's like they are learning about something they "hate".


----------



## sadated_peon (May 10, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> i'm always surprised by people who don't care for islam but seem to know _so many obscure details_ about it.  It's like they are learning about something they "hate".


Why would that be surprising. 

How can you be against something if you don't know what it is?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 10, 2010)

sadated_peon said:


> Why would that be surprising.
> 
> How can you be against something if you don't know what it is?



but if you were for it you would know what it is too...


So which is it peon!? r u a secret muslim or not!?


----------



## sadated_peon (May 10, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> but if you were for it you would know what it is too...
> 
> 
> So which is it peon!? r u a secret muslim or not!?


What is this? false dichotomy trolling?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 10, 2010)

sadated_peon said:


> What is this? false dichotomy trolling?



it's not far fetched.  When it comes to things like religious values, and morals, people are often in the closet about what they really believe.  it's how u end up with pedo priest and gay senators in gas station bathrooms and people converting to and from other religions later.


----------



## sadated_peon (May 10, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> it's not far fetched.  When it comes to things like religious values, and morals, people are often in the closet about what they really believe.  it's how u end up with pedo priest and gay senators in gas station bathrooms and people converting to and from other religions later.



lol, I know a lot about Hume, christianity, Jefferson, Douglass Adams and Tolkien.

Does that mean I am now a rationalist, christian, deist, comic writing elf?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 10, 2010)

you said it, not me.


----------



## Purgatory (May 10, 2010)

I smell 4chan all over this 

I'm all up for this. If they wanna have a bitch fit let them have a bitch fit. If we can make fun of Christ Jesus we should be able to make fun of Mohammed.


----------



## Adonis (May 10, 2010)

Petenshi, no nice way to say this, you are a pussy.


----------



## Garycolemanbobe (May 10, 2010)

Did you steal this from South Park?

Disappoint!


----------



## Mintaka (May 10, 2010)

The creators of south park came up with it oh observant one.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 10, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Just because they are responsible for the act doesn't mean we aren't naive when we probably could have prevented it. I am not shifting blame, only saying being the bigger man is sometimes smarter.



Sometimes being the "bigger man" isn't as fun and stand up as dick slapping idiots in the face.


----------



## timmysblood (May 12, 2010)

Here ya go


----------



## Kadaobi (May 12, 2010)

I do not approved this. I'm not going to draw him. I'm upset to see a lot of people drawing him. I promise you must stop draw him. Because I am not happy to see people must be war together cuz of drawing him or something. Because their is forbidden. That's all.


----------



## Petenshi (May 12, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Petenshi, no nice way to say this, you are a pussy.



If being a pussy puts an end to needless violence and stupidity then I don't want to be...a Non Pussy .



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Sometimes being the "bigger man" isn't as fun and stand up as dick slapping idiots in the face.



I don't disagree, but I have said before violence is a very easy solution. Because it is the easier solution than any rational sort of answer it is the one that is usually chosen. I want to change that. Sometimes the right thing, is harder . 



vivEnergy said:


> Is Petenshi for real, oh man



Yeah, Its crazy that someone doesn't like violence. I mean who did Ghandi think he was?


----------



## Spirit (May 12, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> Guess what you idiot?
> Good will does not need any protection.
> Free speech exists to protect the less popular opinions.



Uhh...did I say otherwise?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 12, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> If being a pussy puts an end to needless violence and stupidity then I don't want to be...a Non Pussy .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't compare yourself to Ghandi, Ghandi did his protest despite violence knowing it could incite it. You're suggesting we shrink back and run.


----------



## Spirit (May 12, 2010)

And his sexual habit. Diskustink.


----------



## Petenshi (May 12, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Don't compare yourself to Ghandi, Ghandi did his protest despite violence knowing it could incite it. You're suggesting we shrink back and run.



No, we aren't running. We are fighting in a different format, one where our citizens won't get killed needlessly.

As I said before, saying what you believe in is one thing, doing so specifically because other people don't like it is stupid and naive.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 12, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> No, we aren't running. We are fighting in a different format, one where our citizens won't get killed needlessly.
> 
> As I said before, saying what you believe in is one thing, doing so specifically because other people don't like it is stupid and naive.


So people don't like free speech therefore we shouldn't use it? 

And that is running, a protest might get you killed sometimes and its not needlessly if people wake up and put a stop to this bullshit.


----------



## Petenshi (May 13, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> So people don't like free speech therefore we shouldn't use it?
> 
> And that is running, a protest might get you killed sometimes and its not needlessly if people wake up and put a stop to this bullshit.



No, people should not use free speech simply because it is there. It is their to protect people, and doing things like this is a dangerous method of exploiting freedom of speech and it has consequences that aren't worth it. If not drawing a silly cartoon means saving even one life, then why would you draw it simply because you knew muslims didn't like it? It is ridiculous.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 13, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> No, people should not use free speech simply because it is there.



Then you need to get onto all of the other groups who do just that all of the time, until then I will keep drawing my Mohammad pictures.


----------



## Spirit (May 13, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Then you need to get onto all of the other groups who do just that all of the time, until then I will keep drawing my Mohammad pictures.



Ahaa...you love him don't you. 

You read the Bible right? The sorcerers who challenged Moses converted you know that right.


----------



## fantzipants (May 16, 2010)

abcd said:


> 1)
> 3) Buddha and Vishnu were drawn in the very same episode with one smoking cocaine ... No reaction was seen from any group :/
> 
> U r misunderstanding the issue and u are feeling as if Islam is the ony religion targeted for fun .



Oh please what about the hindu muslim wars between pakistan and in india. draw vishnu eating meat and i bet you someone will get angry.The buddhists fight amongs themselves.


----------



## Razgriez (May 16, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> No, people should not use free speech simply because it is there. It is their to protect people, and doing things like this is a dangerous method of exploiting freedom of speech and it has consequences that aren't worth it. If not drawing a silly cartoon means saving even one life, then why would you draw it simply because you knew muslims didn't like it? It is ridiculous.



They have 2 choices then.

They can either let me draw him. Or they can die trying to harm me.

The 3rd would be to ignore my drawing and nothing bad happens. The 3rd unofficial option is the best.


----------



## maj1n (May 17, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> As I said before, saying what you believe in is one thing, doing so specifically because other people don't like it is stupid and naive.


I hope you realize alot of protests by Ghandi resulted in British opening fire on them.

So by your argument you just called Ghandi stupid.

Btw, just about everyone who made a cartoon did so to support free speech, so even by your argument, they did the right thing.

The problem with you, is that you give special privilege to Islam, so that it is above free speech.


----------



## Petenshi (May 17, 2010)

maj1n said:


> I hope you realize alot of protests by Ghandi resulted in British opening fire on them.
> 
> So by your argument you just called Ghandi stupid.
> 
> ...



First of all, protesting the British is entirely different. Because well, they were actually protesting.

No, actually you are wrong. If that were true the manner in which they had done it would have been different. Lets see here, we are going to have a day specifically to offend Muslims to Protect free speech. It doesn't target any other sect. It is pure 100% intolerance and hate. You are doing it specifically because you want to and because you know it makes Muslims angry. 

No, every country/religion/race/ Etc that we don't want to go to war with gets these provisions because its keeps people safe until we can resolve the real issue. We don't have a good relationship with Muslims and until we do, offending them, right in our culture or not is idiotic and irresponsible. Your right to free speech is not being diminished any more than it has for the last millennium. Or do I have to tell you why we have ambassadors and peace treaties.


----------



## Patchouli (May 17, 2010)

I think this is relevant.


----------



## Purgatory (May 17, 2010)

If Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism and all the other religious beliefs/ideals can be poked fun at, so can Islam. If those folks over at that islam site wanna have a bitchfit, let them. I am not going to let someone stop me just because it hurts their god damn feelings. I dare those motherfuckers to attack us, I DOUBLE dare them, see what happens. 

Petenshi, I know nothing of you, and you know nothign of me, but let me make this clear: America was not founded to please any other country except itself. I respect your ideals and beliefs as a fellow citizen but what you're suggesting is pacifist. I dare those close-minded fucks to even TRY to murder Stone and Park, see what happens.


----------



## abcd (May 17, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> No, we aren't running. We are fighting in a different format, one where our citizens won't get killed needlessly.
> 
> As I said before, saying what you believe in is one thing, doing so specifically because other people don't like it is stupid and naive.



Why the fuck are u comparing this with Gandhi :/

Gandhi's main motive was that U do not harm the enemy physically or make a mistake even if they kill u, Ur life is not important. U will protest in non violent/ non cooperative means to get the attention u seek.

This is a non violent and non co-operative way.


----------



## Outlandish (May 17, 2010)

Funny how her site is down and she claims not to have launched a draw Mohammad day, and is remorseful about it.

funny.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2010)

What site is down? Facebook? The Washington Post?


----------



## maj1n (May 17, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> First of all, protesting the British is entirely different. Because well, they were actually protesting.


Your an idiot seriously.

Ghandi was NON-VIOLENT PROTEST, not NON-INSULTING PROTEST.

Because by definition many of the British were insulted by his defiance.



			
				Petenshi said:
			
		

> No, actually you are wrong. If that were true the manner in which they had done it would have been different. Lets see here, we are going to have a day specifically to offend Muslims to Protect free speech. It doesn't target any other sect. It is pure 100% intolerance and hate. You are doing it specifically because you want to and because you know it makes Muslims angry.


You know in Iran, they made specific days to protest against the Government too.

Doesn't mean they were there to purely hurt the Clergy were they? they were protesting against the Governments corruption.

It is perfectly fine to target a specific thing that is causing a problem.



			
				Petenshi said:
			
		

> No, every country/religion/race/ Etc that we don't want to go to war with gets these provisions because its keeps people safe until we can resolve the real issue. We don't have a good relationship with Muslims and until we do, offending them, right in our culture or not is idiotic and irresponsible. Your right to free speech is not being diminished any more than it has for the last millennium. Or do I have to tell you why we have ambassadors and peace treaties.


Having a good relationship with muslims means treating them as equals, which means we treat them as we treat others.

Not treating above or below us.

In other words, if in our coutry we satirize and make fun of other religions and people (like politicians) we sure as hell do it for them too.

This might be hard for you to understand.


----------



## Outlandish (May 17, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What site is down? Facebook? The Washington Post?



Molly's site ? keep up


----------



## The Pink Ninja (May 17, 2010)

The Muslims in this forum have convinced me (Without meaning to) that this is a brilliant idea.



Outlandish said:


> Funny how her site is down and she claims not to have launched a draw Mohammad day, and is remorseful about it.
> 
> funny.



$5 on death threats! 

10$ on just the fear of getting a death threat!


----------



## The Hypocrite (May 17, 2010)

The Pink Ninja said:


> The Muslims in this forum have convinced me (Without meaning to) that this is a brilliant idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



None of which are funny.

Outlandish, it seems my opinion will be battering yours on a regular basis.


----------



## Petenshi (May 17, 2010)

maj1n said:


> Having a good relationship with muslims means treating them as equals, which means we treat them as we treat others.
> 
> Not treating above or below us.
> 
> ...



I skipped the first to post because they weren't adding anything new. 

Right, the difference is mass numbers of those people and religions aren't offended. That is the difference. That is all. You say that since most people aren't offended that Muslims can't be offended because it doesn't make sense. However, majority does not = right. And if you look through history, most countries who last long don't start wars with every country/group over something as stupid as a cartoon. Its called Politics. Its a game. And as you should know, you can't win everything in a game. This is not worth the risk of what it has obviously been causing.


----------



## Outlandish (May 17, 2010)

The Hypocrite said:


> None of which are funny.
> 
> Outlandish, it seems my opinion will be battering yours on a regular basis.



i don't think so i'm only on here to get away from revision and hardly come here because people can't disagree in a rational way. 

But i'm flattered nonetheless, perhaps you should go debate in universities instead ? there are a mass of Palestinian sympathizers like me at most unis 



The Pink Ninja said:


> The Muslims in this forum have convinced me (Without meaning to) that this is a brilliant idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's funny cuz she took back what she stood for even though it was against fear.. lol anyway i hope she enjoys her short lived publicity.


----------



## maj1n (May 17, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> I skipped the first to post because they weren't adding anything new.
> 
> Right, the difference is mass numbers of those people and religions aren't offended. That is the difference. That is all. You say that since most people aren't offended that Muslims can't be offended because it doesn't make sense. However, majority does not = right. And if you look through history, most countries who last long don't start wars with every country/group over something as stupid as a cartoon. Its called Politics. Its a game. And as you should know, you can't win everything in a game. This is not worth the risk of what it has obviously been causing.


What the fuck are you talking about mate?  i never said people aren't offended.

I said that if we want better relations with Muslims, we have to treat them as equals, this doesn't mean treating them above how we treat other's, *it means treating them as we treat others*

We ridicule politicians, Governments and other religions, this is healthy, so we should be allowed to do so for Islam.

Let me tell you a little something, it is your attitude that is causing the problem, why?

Do you think the world is split between muslim/non-muslims? no, there are differing groups within society, but they need to be all treated equally.

When you give concessions to Islam, by definition you are MISTREATING other groups, because you treat one group better then all the rest.

This breeds resentment and anger.

How do you think we arrived to this present state? it wasn't for insulting Muslims, it was for giving concessions towards Islam.

The issue of censorship and free speech in regards to Islam did not arise spontaneously, it arose because people like you said we should not say so and so in regards to Islam, which pissed people off.

And when extremists start killing people over criticizing Islam, and all we hear is people like you giving more support towards those who would oppress then those who would defend freedom of speech.
Anger erupts.

Your attitude is one that breeds anger and resentment.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (May 17, 2010)

Outlandish said:


> It's funny cuz she took back what she stood for even though it was against fear.. lol anyway i hope she enjoys her short lived publicity.



Yes, hilarious. 

You ere complaining of racism earlier but to me it looks like people have real reason to be afraid.


----------



## Petenshi (May 17, 2010)

maj1n said:


> What the fuck are you talking about mate?  i never said people aren't offended.
> 
> I said that if we want better relations with Muslims, we have to treat them as equals, this doesn't mean treating them above how we treat other's, *it means treating them as we treat others*
> 
> ...



I really don't think you have ever completely understood my posts. I am sure thats probably my fault but still, its pretty astounding that all you do is repeat the same thing over and over. I got it, you think we should treat everyone the same. I am telling you that equality doesn't exist in the same way you think it does. Equality isn't everyone getting $1000 to start a family when they get married, it is everyone getting a different amount of money based on economical conditions. This holds true for almost every facet of equality. Politicians rarely get offended with political cartoons, and thus what I am talking about doesn't matter. Secondly, even if they were offended they probably wouldn't spread their ideal to every other politician and all of them become terrorists or attack people. Some Muslims are offended AND some of them spread their hatred and cause these attacks. Thats why they are different. I am sure that you could find something that angers Christians to that point. My attitude stops wars from occurring and stops useless bloodshed and tension. Your attitude preserves every loophole of a freedom at the cost of lives and well being.


----------



## abcd (May 17, 2010)

fantzipants said:


> Oh please what about the hindu muslim wars between pakistan and in india. draw vishnu eating meat and i bet you someone will get angry.The buddhists fight amongs themselves.



Yes there are a lot of hindu muslim fights in india ... not over a cartoon though. Islamic radicals burnt down a train of devotees in a place called godhra and attacked a temple ... about 256 hindus died... There were huge protests and around 700 muslims were killed later .. This is very different from the cartoon wars. U are just creating strawmen.



Petenshi said:


> I really don't think you have ever completely understood my posts. I am sure thats probably my fault but still, its pretty astounding that all you do is repeat the same thing over and over. I got it, you think we should treat everyone the same. I am telling you that equality doesn't exist in the same way you think it does. Equality isn't everyone getting $1000 to start a family when they get married, it is everyone getting a different amount of money based on economical conditions. This holds true for almost every facet of equality. Politicians rarely get offended with political cartoons, and thus what I am talking about doesn't matter. Secondly, even if they were offended they probably wouldn't spread their ideal to every other politician and all of them become terrorists or attack people. Some Muslims are offended AND some of them spread their hatred and cause these attacks. Thats why they are different. I am sure that you could find something that angers Christians to that point. My attitude stops wars from occurring and stops useless bloodshed and tension. Your attitude preserves every loophole of a freedom at the cost of lives and well being.



Ur perspective of "useless" is very different from others perspective. People born with freedom don't understand its value, Every war for freedom has a lot of bloodshed ... There is a difference between being a pacifist and being scared. Here its anonymous ppl posting cartoons on the internet.

I am not sure if any muslims in this thread responded to you. If I was one of them I would be more offended by your posts than any one else's post in this thread.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2010)

My Mohammad is going to have Bahamut as a face....because my friend thought when I told him over the phone it was Draw Mohammad that I was saying Draw Bahaumut (from Final Fantasy) day.


----------



## Petenshi (May 17, 2010)

abcd said:


> Ur perspective of "useless" is very different from others perspective. People born with freedom don't understand its value, Every war for freedom has a lot of bloodshed ... There is a difference between being a pacifist and being scared. Here its anonymous ppl posting cartoons on the internet.
> 
> I am not sure if any muslims in this thread responded to you. If I was one of them I would be more offended by your posts than any one else's post in this thread.



Well, if you really want to use your ancestors sacrifice to start wars and tension with people then so be it. It just sounds absolutely stupid and irresponsible. If you had a, draw Political cartoons for freedom day I perhaps could understand at least a little more. But no, this is a day to specifically target Muslims for the sake that some of them get angry. You aren't gaining anything from anyone or anything and you certainly are using the Freedom of Speech at its worst. And as I told maj1n, being politically and emotionally aware isn't being scared. This is why we have ambassadors, and allies, and friends, and peace treaties. If we always did what we wanted and never made concessions America would have never made it.


----------



## Purgatory (May 17, 2010)

My Muhammed is gonna be a stick figure with a greasy beard and bombs all over him


----------



## abcd (May 18, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> *Well, if you really want to use your ancestors sacrifice to start wars and tension with people then so be it*. It just sounds absolutely stupid and irresponsible. If you had a, draw Political cartoons for freedom day I perhaps could understand at least a little more. But no, this is a day to specifically target Muslims for the sake that some of them get angry. You aren't gaining anything from anyone or anything and you certainly are using the Freedom of Speech at its worst. And as I told maj1n, being politically and emotionally aware isn't being scared. This is why we have ambassadors, and allies, and friends, and peace treaties. If we always did what we wanted and never made concessions America would have never made it.



Lets be clear, No one started anything here, It was a simple cartoon on TV which made fun of 5 different religions (seamen ). A cartoon that is famous for breaking every rule in the book. Islam was not even insulted in the cartoon , it was the muslims who were indirectly insulted for their intimidating nature. Well *death threats* came in and the show got censored. now people on the internet are drawing pictures to protest against death threats. 

I wud have agreed with ur point if the whole "death threat" event did not happen.


----------



## Zabuzalives (May 18, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> My attitude stops wars from occurring and stops useless bloodshed and tension. Your attitude preserves every loophole of a freedom at the cost of lives and well being.



1. The do not draw Mohammed is a muslim rule which does not apply to non-muslims. Us being kuffars and disbelievers...risk of worshipping the prophet or picture instead of allah is only 1 of the many ways in which we stray. 

Anger about us simply depicting Mohammed is totally unjust. It is nothing but trying to enforce religious beliefs on others. 



2. Mohammed is a cherished figure in Islam. And as such muslims are sensitive about any ridicule. 

this is fair..but heres the thing. 

Taking offense is as much dependant on the subject...as it is on the message. 

Without being criticised or hearing opposing views, you never learn self-control, you never learn to grow a thicker skin. Censorship will just lower the treshold of sensitivity..which will mean conflicts will keep arising, and more and more will need to be censored. 

To censor because people are ""insulted"" leads to a huge slippery slope. Everything can be insulting for one reason or another. There is no end..and thus censorship would destroy the foundations of free speech. 

One can be insulted merely by a truth they rather not be faced with... 


That is why you can NOT cave in to threaths on this issue. This will be rewarding violence...and setting in on a path that will destroy the merits of free speech.  

Yes you can think this Lars guy is an insensitive asshole. And not care much for the guy. But defending his right of freedom of speech is still important.

To adopt a law/rule such as ""right to not have your religion insulted"" will be the end of it. 

Self censorship our of fear of conflict and misguided ideas about ""tolerance"" is nothing but rewarding the violent and opressive. It teaches them that getting angry and violent is a way for them to push their religious beliefs on you.  




Can you not see your being nothing but an appeaser? 

""My attitude stops wars from occurring and stops useless bloodshed and tension."" 

yeah my country tried that in WW2. We even got rid of most of our army seeing how we would not get into conflicts anyway. 

guess what happened??? 

Your attitude is admirable..but NOT in the face of those who will SEEK conflict because they want to take from you/control you.


----------



## maj1n (May 18, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> I really don't think you have ever completely understood my posts. I am sure thats probably my fault but still, its pretty astounding that all you do is repeat the same thing over and over. I got it, you think we should treat everyone the same. I am telling you that equality doesn't exist in the same way you think it does. Equality isn't everyone getting $1000 to start a family when they get married, it is everyone getting a different amount of money based on economical conditions. This holds true for almost every facet of equality. Politicians rarely get offended with political cartoons, and thus what I am talking about doesn't matter. *Secondly, even if they were offended they probably wouldn't spread their ideal to every other politician and all of them become terrorists or attack people. Some Muslims are offended AND some of them spread their hatred and cause these attacks*. Thats why they are different. I am sure that you could find something that angers Christians to that point. My attitude stops wars from occurring and stops useless bloodshed and tension. Your attitude preserves every loophole of a freedom at the cost of lives and well being.


1. Refraining from doing what your normally doing per the demands of those who use violence, only encourages them to do so, because they see what they've done is successful.

This is basic common-sense, your attitude only emboldens terrorists.

2. It is a fact that the more a society tries to be 'non-insulting' the more oppressive and tyrannical is, im sure you'd ABSOLUTELY love saudi Arabia and Iran, with their incredibly draconian laws on not insulting religions.

History shows us that the only way for a country to be liberal, is for people to have a great degree of freedom to criticize and insult.

So no, your attitude most definitely has been shown to cause wars, oppression and tyranny.


*I really hope you realize what you've been saying has been totally saying Ghandi and Martin Luther Kings actions were wrong*

I am quite dead certain their 'inflammatory' actions resulted in violence been done on their particular group, by your logic they should have sacrificed their freedoms and stopped protesting in order to save those lives.


----------



## sadated_peon (May 18, 2010)

Petenshi said:
			
		

> My attitude stops wars from occurring and stops useless bloodshed and tension. Your attitude preserves every loophole of a freedom at the cost of lives and well being.


There is no such thing as a loophole of a freedom, right don't have loopholes. 

That you consider this a loophole means that you are abandoning a right to appease a criminal group.


----------



## Patchouli (May 19, 2010)

Damn, had all this time to take sides and I'm still neutral.


----------



## BAD BD (May 19, 2010)

I'll be sure to contribute.


----------



## Mider T (May 19, 2010)

Pakistan shut down Facebook?  Why do the moderate Muslims keep taking the bait?  If they truly want to distance themselves from the radicals why not condemn them or ignore them?


----------



## N120 (May 19, 2010)

^ we oppose their actions (violence) not their stance on the issue (opposition to the cartoon).


----------



## sadated_peon (May 19, 2010)

N120 said:


> ^ we oppose their actions (violence) not their stance on the issue (opposition to the cartoon).



You made it clear before that you have no problem with their actions *VIOLENCE*



N120 said:


> Don't blame them, if i was watching his presentation i would've done much more than just a headbutt.
> 
> But thats just me.



You made it clear that you would do *VIOLENCE*


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 19, 2010)

N120 said:


> ^ we oppose their actions (violence) not their stance on the issue (opposition to the cartoon).



i oppose their actions  like i oppose people killing people for money in robberies, or dudes killing a guy who's boning their wife, or a guy killing a guy for stepping on his feet.  These are stories i can find for you all day.  Losing it when someone insults your religion is more reasonable then all of those other things i mentioned.



sadated_peon said:


> You made it clear before that you have no problem with their actions *VIOLENCE*
> 
> 
> 
> You made it clear that you would do *VIOLENCE*



you are a troll trying to disguise urself as someone reasonable.  I can't believe the things u say, like drawing mohammed will free you from tyranny 

what other things will you draw today to save the world ?


----------



## Ennoea (May 19, 2010)

> Pakistan shut down Facebook? Why do the moderate Muslims keep taking the bait? If they truly want to distance themselves from the radicals why not condemn them or ignore them?



A bunch of Islamic lawyers got the authorities to shut down facebook. Tho I doubt even moderates would oppose it.


----------



## Purgatory (May 19, 2010)

Simpson, are you sure you're not islamic?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 19, 2010)

Purgatory said:


> Simpson, are you sure you're not islamic?



if i said yes or no, how would u answer?  Either way i've spent a bit of time with muslims and had good muslim friends, and the idea they are snarling mad invading bombers like some of you claim is fantasy.


----------



## Purgatory (May 19, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> if i said yes or no, how would u answer?  Either way i've spent a bit of time with muslims and had good muslim friends, and the idea they are snarling mad invading bombers like some of you claim is fantasy.



Why do you have a problem with something so fucking trivial? It's just a god damned cartoon and you're being a fucking sympathetic pacifist bastard who's giving into a country that you'll NEVER see.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 19, 2010)

Purgatory said:


> Why do you have a problem with something so fucking trivial? It's just a god damned cartoon and you're being a fucking sympathetic pacifist bastard who's giving into a country that you'll NEVER see.



lol. ok, btwn u & me, if u had drawn mohammed doing whatever and showed it to me, i wouldn't even give it a second thought as to the significance or non-significance of it.  But do you have any muslim friends? Do you intend to stuff it down their throats?  I do have muslim friends, so i wouldn't want them to see it cause they would probably be as violated as if i called my black friends the n word, or my white friends the h word, or fed my hindu friend beef without telling them.

offending muslims has no appeal to me.  

And practically it's not in any business's interest, even media, to show those things casually and without warnings, cause they'll lose their muslim customers.  

Now if you lived in a place with no muslim people, and no muslim clients/businesses, and for some reason felt the need to insult muslims, i guess it would be your prerogative.

Hey dude, it's ur world, do what u want, draw away!


----------



## Koi (May 20, 2010)

Today is the day!


Also the other day I was watching the Lemmiwinks episode and in the opening for that season there's a shot of the Super Best Friends taking flight, and Mohammad's actually not censored.  Which is cool.

Still no streaming of 200, 201 OR Super Best Friends though. :<


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

Koi said:


> Today is the day!
> 
> 
> Also the other day I was watching the Lemmiwinks episode and in the opening for that season there's a shot of the Super Best Friends taking flight, and Mohammad's actually not censored.  Which is cool.
> ...


Yeah I had noticed that back then too.


----------



## makeoutparadise (May 20, 2010)

is there going to be a thread here I'm sooo posting in it show those commie terrorist what fur'!!!!


----------



## Patchouli (May 20, 2010)

Today's the day....

Play the song of time, hurry!


----------



## Bleach (May 20, 2010)

this issue          .

And people who believe in free speech


----------



## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> lol. ok, btwn u & me, if u had drawn mohammed doing whatever and showed it to me, i wouldn't even give it a second thought as to the significance or non-significance of it.  But do you have any muslim friends? Do you intend to stuff it down their throats?  I do have muslim friends, so i wouldn't want them to see it cause they would probably be as violated as if i called my black friends the n word, or my white friends the h word, or fed my hindu friend beef without telling them.
> 
> offending muslims has no appeal to me.
> 
> ...



Now why would I force it down anyone's throats? 

This is just for the radical islamists who have a dildo up their ass pretty much. I'm sorry, but I'm not appeasing to those fucking bastards just because Muhammed can't be seen in our media.


----------



## Krix (May 20, 2010)

i have a muslim friend.
so i don't really like this idea, i know i wouldn't want my religion to be disrespected either :/


----------



## Koi (May 20, 2010)

Krix said:


> i have a muslim friend.
> so i don't really like this idea, i know i wouldn't want my religion to be disrespected either :/


----------



## Enigma (May 20, 2010)

Funny that Muslims aren't allowed to do that.


----------



## Bleach (May 20, 2010)

It's like you are trying to justify "they are hypocrites"

"Pictures of Muhammad are "not exactly" forbidden in the hadiths either. The hadiths do not single out Muhammad’s picture. Rather, in the hadith we find the prohibition of all pictures of people or animals, which would include pictures from a camera."

So even those depictions that were made by Muslims are wrong.


----------



## ryne11 (May 20, 2010)

The Muslim protesters are spamming the facebook thread with porn and other shit. 

I made a pic, stolen from 2 pics, but I can't post it outside Konoha Telegrams 

Edit. Holy Crap. Muslims sure are pissed at me. 20 messages in a period of 10 seconds all telling me to go Fuck myself and Fuck Jesus while posting pick of Santa shitting on Jesus while crucified. This is gonna be a Fun day.


----------



## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

ryne11 said:


> The Muslim protesters are spamming the facebook thread with porn and other shit.
> 
> I made a pic, stolen from 2 pics, but I can't post it outside Konoha Telegrams
> 
> Edit. Holy Crap. Muslims sure are pissed at me. 20 messages in a period of 10 seconds all telling me to go Fuck myself and Fuck Jesus while posting pick of Santa shitting on Jesus while crucified. This is gonna be a Fun day.



Can you post me it/them? 

Where did you put the pic?

Jesus they're like fuckin pirhana.


----------



## ryne11 (May 20, 2010)

Goatse and mutilated people. Ok, I'm out



Purgatory said:


> Can you post me it/them?
> 
> Where did you put the pic?
> 
> Jesus they're like fuckin pirhana.


----------



## Pilaf (May 20, 2010)

Hey fellow Americans...I always see these "support the troops" stickers in the south where I live. How about today we actually support the ideals that people have fought and died for throughout the years by serving our country in our own way? Let's practice our rights! Let's embrace freedom of speech! Let's draw Muhammad! To do otherwise would be to disrespect those troops and to disrespect the very ideas America was founded on. You don't hate freedom, do you? Do you?


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 20, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> Hey fellow Americans...I always see these "support the troops" stickers in the south where I live. How about today we actually support the ideals that people have fought and died for throughout the years by serving our country in our own way? Let's practice our rights! Let's embrace freedom of speech! Let's draw Muhammad! To do otherwise would be to disrespect those troops and to disrespect the very ideas America was founded on. You don't hate freedom, do you? Do you?


Yeah! Fuck Muhammad, literally, figuratively and metaphorically.


----------



## ryne11 (May 20, 2010)

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut.
Too bad we can't change all emotions to Muhammad faces or something
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/4365052888_d317ecb636.jpg


----------



## Bleach (May 20, 2010)

lol you guys sure are into this.....


a little bit too much... which is a bit more worrying than Muslims raging.


----------



## Pilaf (May 20, 2010)

My point is valid and constant as a star. What's the point of supporting America or the troops or the fucking flag if we cower in the face of enemies of our inalienable rights?


----------



## ryne11 (May 20, 2010)

Bleach said:


> lol you guys sure are into this.....
> 
> 
> a little bit too much... which is a bit more worrying than Muslims raging.



Not really. I was just having a little fun. I more or less got it out of my system now.

Besides, the whole problem is that People can put a cross in a Jar of Urine, defecate on a painting of the Virgin Mary, draw pictures of Jesus having gay sex ect, and it is accepted by the media and not outraged by any Christians, Jews, Mormons, ect. However, one little drawing with Muhammad, however, and everyone has to stop because Muslims have more rights to not be offended than others.

Just saying.


----------



## Bleach (May 20, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> Hey fellow Americans...I always see these "support the troops" stickers in the south where I live. How about today we actually support the ideals that people have fought and died for throughout the years by serving our country in our own way? Let's practice our rights! Let's embrace freedom of speech! Let's draw Muhammad! To do otherwise would be to disrespect those troops and to disrespect the very ideas America was founded on. You don't hate freedom, do you? Do you?



Lets make all porn legal including child pornography and child exploitation and make rape legal and all that good stuff .

I mean, I would just be expressing my freedom of pursuing my happiness and thats in the declaration of independence!!!!


----------



## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

ryne11 said:


> Goatse and mutilated people. Ok, I'm out



Fucking epic.



Bleach said:


> Lets make all porn legal including child pornography and child exploitation and make rape legal and all that good stuff .
> 
> I mean, I would just be expressing my freedom of pursuing my happiness and thats in the declaration of independence!!!!


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 20, 2010)

Bleach said:


> Lets make all porn legal including child pornography and child exploitation and make rape legal and all that good stuff .
> 
> I mean, I would just be expressing my freedom of pursuing my happiness and thats in the declaration of independence!!!!


----------



## Bleach (May 20, 2010)

But thats my dream


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> Hey fellow Americans...I always see these "support the troops" stickers in the south where I live. How about today we actually support the ideals that people have fought and died for throughout the years by serving our country in our own way? Let's practice our rights! Let's embrace freedom of speech! Let's draw Muhammad! To do otherwise would be to disrespect those troops and to disrespect the very ideas America was founded on. You don't hate freedom, do you? Do you?



what about the muslim troops, do they have to endure that?  This isn't even worth the effort to type.


----------



## Shasta McNasty (May 20, 2010)

This is bigger than Christmas.


----------



## BAD BD (May 20, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> what about the muslim troops, do they have to endure that?  This isn't even worth the effort to type.



SO YOU HATE FREEDOM?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 20, 2010)

Bleach said:


> Lets make all porn legal including child pornography and child exploitation and make rape legal and all that good stuff .



I'm sure Mohammed would've loved that.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> SO YOU HATE FREEDOM?



lol, i better be careful, i might be forced to draw soon :S


----------



## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> what about the muslim troops, do they have to endure that?  This isn't even worth the effort to type.



It's not even worth to show you the error of your ways so shush.


----------



## mystictrunks (May 20, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> Hey fellow Americans...I always see these "support the troops" stickers in the south where I live. How about today we actually support the ideals that people have fought and died for throughout the years by serving our country in our own way? Let's practice our rights! Let's embrace freedom of speech! Let's draw Muhammad! To do otherwise would be to disrespect those troops and to disrespect the very ideas America was founded on. You don't hate freedom, do you? Do you?



Don't you support beating neo-nazis for voicing their opinions?


----------



## BAD BD (May 20, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Don't you support beating neo-nazis for voicing their opinions?



SO WE GOT OURSELVES A FREEDOM HATER


----------



## Bleach (May 20, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I'm sure Mohammed would've loved that.



That's where your wrong O_O


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 20, 2010)

Bleach said:


> That's where your wrong O_O



Oh right, forgive me. He would've preferred to have been in the middle of the action.


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 20, 2010)

Genocide 2010!!!!! 

With special Guests: MUSLIMS!!!!

And Music By: AEROSMITH!!

Come one come all, bring your kids (kids get in for free). Adults Charge of:7$ Seniors:3$

Be there, be there, be there.


----------



## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

Mexican God said:


> Genocide 2010!!!!!
> 
> With special Guests: MUSLIMS!!!!
> 
> ...



Sounds like something from a South Park episode.


----------



## N120 (May 20, 2010)

ryne11 said:


> Not really. I was just having a little fun. I more or less got it out of my system now.
> 
> Besides, the whole problem is that People can put a cross in a Jar of Urine, defecate on a painting of the Virgin Mary, draw pictures of Jesus having gay sex ect, and it is accepted by the media and not outraged by any Christians, Jews, Mormons, ect. However, one little drawing with Muhammad, however, and everyone has to stop because Muslims have more rights to not be offended than others.
> 
> Just saying.



muslims dont have more right than others, they just feel stronger about this issue than other groups do.

One reason maybe because Christians already use symbolism and statues for religious purposes, they have artwork of saints, the cross,jesus, and various statues in their churches.
so they are more relaxed about religious art in general.

Muslims dont have that, we dont put up pictures in a mosques of any living creatures, we dont accept any images of any prophets or their companions, most consider it completely forbidden to do so, even if it was to celebrate or promote our historical figures/ we just dont do it. And if we cant accept images for good reasons, then its safe to say we wont be accepting them for any other reason be they by muslims or not/


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 20, 2010)

Purgatory said:


> Sounds like something from a South Park episode.


```


----------



## Mintaka (May 20, 2010)

Pilaf said:


> My point is valid and constant as a star.


You mean it's going to blow up in your face and take the forum with it?  

Btw I made a thread for this in the plaza.  ((If I haven't said that already....to lazy to see if I have.))


----------



## Nodonn (May 20, 2010)

Guess who just turned 18?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

That face book page turned into a total clusterfuck.


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> That face book page turned into a total clusterfuck.



Good, and if you are smart you should stay off of it. They're gonna be installing keyloggers, hacks and viruses and embedding them into videos/pictures later as well I believe. Hope they get a lot of those dumbasses talking about , "Freedom of speech," acting like internet revolutionaries, when really they haven't done a day of activism in their life. On top of that, they hide behind FACEBOOK and say this shit, they would never come out of their mouth in real life and say this shit to group of Muslims

That's like the internet's collective of pussies in one spot. 73,000 of them, jerking each others ego off because they know they're so frail if they tried to actually "stand up for their rights" (i.e., be racist/xenophobic) they'd get their chest caved in.


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> Good, and if you are smart you should stay off of it. They're gonna be installing keyloggers, hacks and viruses and embedding them into videos/pictures later as well I believe. Hope they get a lot of those dumbasses talking about , "Freedom of speech," acting like internet revolutionaries, when really they haven't done a day of activism in their life. On top of that, they hide behind FACEBOOK and say this shit, they would never come out of their mouth in real life and say this shit to group of Muslims
> 
> That's like the internet's collective of pussies in one spot. 73,000 of them, jerking each others ego off because they know they're so frail if they tried to actually "stand up for their rights" (i.e., be racist/xenophobic) they'd get their chest caved in.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> Good, and if you are smart you should stay off of it. They're gonna be installing keyloggers, hacks and viruses and embedding them into videos/pictures later as well I believe. Hope they get a lot of those dumbasses talking about , "Freedom of speech," acting like internet revolutionaries, when really they haven't done a day of activism in their life. On top of that, they hide behind FACEBOOK and say this shit, they would never come out of their mouth in real life and say this shit to group of Muslims
> 
> That's like the internet's collective of pussies in one spot. 73,000 of them, jerking each others ego off because they know they're so frail if they tried to actually "stand up for their rights" (i.e., be racist/xenophobic) they'd get their chest caved in.



How about I just go on it on Linux and have a little fun. The Muslims are the ones who are being racist from what I've seen. Calling people names and stuff. I haven't seen anyone making fun of Muslims, they're just drawing Mohammad. 

And it is a freedom of speech issue and if people want to help out a little, what's the harm?


----------



## Mintaka (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> they would never come out of their mouth in real life and say this shit to group of Muslims


NOT THIS CRAP ARGUMENT AGAIN!

This illustrates the goddamn PROBLEM.  I shouldn't HAVE to be threatened by a bunch of barbarians over a goddamn drawing.


----------



## N120 (May 20, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> NOT THIS CRAP ARGUMENT AGAIN!
> 
> This illustrates the goddamn PROBLEM.  I shouldn't HAVE to be threatened by a bunch of barbarians over a goddamn drawing.



no you dont, but you will.


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

I don't believe in religion. You fail.

And CTK, you're seeing that after all the spam has been occurring, fortunately they've essentially succeeding in making the group worthless for tonight, but tomorrow morning expect a resurgence. 

However, I was there when it started and it quickly degenerated into an anti islam group. Sure, practice free speech, but at this point its far past that and there are many instances of people provoking and issuing threats on both sides. 

And all of this was for what? Because four dudes bitched and south park took showing mohammed off? Islam isn't taking over the country or your rights, Islam IS NOT A PERSON. I'm tired of hearing about big bad islam.

In fact you know what original guy, you're right, I am mad, I'm pissed that American's have become so pussified that even if they are outraged about something, they make a 73k strong facebook group, rather than actually try to get something done, and then PRAISE themselves as if they've accomplished some great victory besides wasting good bandwith.


----------



## Altron (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> I don't believe in religion. You fail.
> 
> And CTK, you're seeing that after all the spam has been occurring, fortunately they've essentially succeeding in making the group worthless for tonight, but tomorrow morning expect a resurgence.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> I don't believe in religion. You fail.
> 
> And CTK, you're seeing that after all the spam has been occurring, fortunately they've essentially succeeding in making the group worthless for tonight, but tomorrow morning expect a resurgence.
> 
> ...



Actually someone seems to have tried to blow up some shit in NYC over it. 

And I don't know why they need to take to the streets to do something. This is the best way to do something, post pictures of it everywhere. 

And anti-Muslim? So far most of the images I have seen are Jesus being shit on and stuff posted by Muslims, I have seen in total one Mohammad picture and it was a malware site.


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> I don't believe in religion. You fail.
> 
> And CTK, you're seeing that after all the spam has been occurring, fortunately they've essentially succeeding in making the group worthless for tonight, but tomorrow morning expect a resurgence.
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: _All are correct, but you can pick one or else you might bitch about that too._


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> NOT THIS CRAP ARGUMENT AGAIN!
> 
> This illustrates the goddamn PROBLEM.  I shouldn't HAVE to be threatened by a bunch of barbarians over a goddamn drawing.



But you are, and you're threatened because of your own projections and fucking fragility of the mind. Islamic people dont give a darn about you, no one knows who tokoyami is. 

anytime you say something against someone's core beliefs you run the risk of being beat down. It says something about that group that they feel so oppressed and unable to speak out that they whine on facebook.

You know what it says? They are vaginas. This crap argument is fact, they are PUSSIES. Period. It's not an insult, i'm just stating a fact. If you are afraid to say something to someones face for fear of repercussion you are a pussy. And maybe, if you weren't trying to insult them and trying to understand why it's that way, you all could grow out of pussydom into mandom.

But its doubtful for that lot. They're just a bunch of codified pussies and wingnuts in there, I haven't seen one legitimate argument put forth for free speech (which is pathetic, considering that I've been LOOKING for one).

tut tut, watch it MG, you never know when me and you might be cruising through AZ together, better stay on my good side .


----------



## Mintaka (May 20, 2010)

N120 said:


> no you dont, but you will.


Y halo thar captain obvious.


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Actually someone seems to have tried to blow up some shit in NYC over it.
> 
> And I don't know why they need to take to the streets to do something. This is the best way to do something, post pictures of it everywhere.
> 
> And anti-Muslim? So far most of the images I have seen are Jesus being shit on and stuff posted by Muslims, I have seen in total one Mohammad picture and it was a malware site.



...I live 10-15 minutes away from NYC when im in Jersey (which I currently am), I mean I can literally see it from down the block, and this is news to me.

Like I said, yes now they've essentially made the site defunct, the first hour was mostly just people posting things against allah and islam without even posting pictures, hence the dearth of Mohammed pictures. 

To the bawwing guy with the rabbit, i'm soooo pwoud of you. You learned how to post internet pictures in special ed class today, tomorrow they're gonna teach you how to use ONE chopstick to eat, aren't you excited .


----------



## N120 (May 20, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> Y halo thar captain obvious.



what did you expect


----------



## Mintaka (May 20, 2010)

I expected a moon colony.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

did u guys win the war on terror yet?


----------



## xenopyre (May 20, 2010)

So where are d'em pictures ?


----------



## Rubi (May 20, 2010)

Hmm..... I can draw him But anime style with breasts, curves and bangs


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> did u guys win the war on terror yet?



LOL, not only did they not win, they got rapestomped. More than a few people I'm sure got viruses considering how much malware was posted after a while, and then facebook came in and shut the group down a little bit ago.


Five minutes before the retards come on talking about how Facebook is pussy, caving to terrrorist demands, etc. When in all actuality it doesn't take a genius to see it was largely a hate group. 

And if they don't like it, go back to fucking myspace then people.


----------



## Watchman (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> But you are, and you're threatened because of your own projections and fucking fragility of the mind. Islamic people dont give a darn about you, no one knows who tokoyami is.
> 
> anytime you say something against someone's core beliefs you run the risk of being beat down.



Bullshit. Anyone can say to my face that I'm going to burn in hell for eternity for my Atheism or that Liberalism is nothing but a hunk of crap, and I assure you I won't come close to beating them down for it because I, like damn near every other civilized person in the world, am capable of taking criticism without flying into a berserker-rage.

But you tell me - how many times have people drawn pictures of Jesus that have spawned violent riots? Or any other religious figure for that matter?



> It says something about that group that they feel so oppressed and unable to speak out that they whine on facebook.



Yes, how dare they use the internet which is a fast-paced, easily accessible and global instrument to get their message out!



> You know what it says? They are vaginas. This crap argument is fact, they are PUSSIES. Period. It's not an insult, i'm just stating a fact. If you are afraid to say something to someones face for fear of repercussion you are a pussy. And maybe, if you weren't trying to insult them and trying to understand why it's that way, you all could grow out of pussydom into mandom.



No, you blithering Neanderthal, it simply means they're spreading the message the easiest way there is - via ths internet.

I don't know if you've realised this, but Facebook isn't 4chan - these aren't anonymous folks contributing and then scurrying off without leaving a name or a face.

And no, you aren't the ultimate arbiter of manliness who decides whether an action is manly or not. Although then again, you're the guy calling people out for not insulting people to their faces by... not insulting them to their faces. 



> But its doubtful for that lot. They're just a bunch of codified pussies and wingnuts in there, I haven't seen one legitimate argument put forth for free speech (which is pathetic, considering that I've been LOOKING for one).
> 
> tut tut, watch it MG, you never know when me and you might be cruising through AZ together, better stay on my good side .



Then you really haven't looked hard enough. There's a half-dozen arguments defending them on this forum alone, and we're hardly the frontline of free speech vs. Islamic sensibilities here.


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Watchman said:


> Bullshit. Anyone can say to my face that I'm going to burn in hell for eternity for my Atheism or that Liberalism is nothing but a hunk of crap, and I assure you I won't come close to beating them down for it because I, like damn near every other civilized person in the world, am capable of taking criticism without flying into a berserker-rage.



What are you fucking saying? ALL of islam didn't attack this cartoonist, FOUR guys did. That's like saying, "Oh some athiest anarchists attacked the White house, therefore all anarchists are terrorists who hate American values [anarchy probably wasn't the best example since they hate all government but you get the point].



> But you tell me - how many times have people drawn pictures of Jesus that have spawned violent riots? Or any other religious figure for that matter?



I'll do you one better. Back in the day, you didn't even have to insult Christianity to offend them, if you had nice things and they liked them, "God" had decided the crusaders deserved them and there was nothing you can do about it.

And ummm...the inquisition of the catholic church? The Dark ages? Their have been so many VIOLENT riots over religion the fact that you said that is flabbergasting.



> Yes, how dare they use the internet which is a fast-paced, easily accessible and global instrument to get their message out!



Well i've already won this argument, as Facebook clearly agrees with me as they continue to delete the groups. 



> No, you blithering Neanderthal, it simply means they're spreading the message the easiest way there is - via ths internet.



No, it means they're hiding like pussies. The author of the group never left his name, many of these people don't have their real names or profile pics up, and again, no one is in the streets, in their local law makers office attempting to make improvements. You're just wrong, they weren't interested in achieving political change, just getting some attention that they now look like epic fails for.



> And no, you aren't the ultimate arbiter of manliness who decides whether an action is manly or not. Although then again, you're the guy calling people out for not insulting people to their faces by... not insulting them to their faces.



Except the difference is I've looked into a room full of people, friends and not, and cursed them out and proceeded to debunk and shit on every single one of their reasons for joining the group. I practice what I preach bitchboy. Whether you believe me or not I can give two shits about, the point is if I've got a problem in real life I say it, and I've been trying to respond directly to every dumbass in that group.



> Then you really haven't looked hard enough. There's a half-dozen arguments defending them on this forum alone, and we're hardly the frontline of free speech vs. Islamic sensibilities here.



*Yawn*, yea i keep hearing the great argument that the action of four or five guys should be used to insult an entire swatch of people. 

I love stupid people, it's so cute when they think their words are making sense.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 20, 2010)

What the fuck is with this sudden respect for people's faith now?


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> What the fuck is with this sudden respect for people's faith now?



It's called being a real fucking American. America was predicated on the stance that I can hate a mother fucker for everything he is, and still coexistence because of respect for the supreme rule of law. 

The issue with these facebook groups are that EVERY SINGLE ONE degenerate into more than insults, but viruses and malware being posted, people actually threatening each other, etc. Faceook doesn't wanna have more negative publicity when some 16 year old ass gets killed by another 16 year old extremist ass because of some fucking picture. Grow the fuck up. (I didn't mean this rant to you kaiba, was just responding to your general question).


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 20, 2010)

It's called being apologetic. I've never seen this kind of defense for Christian faith, which is trampled on here all the time, but when it comes to this, oh, you know we gotta respect their faith and all and bend over and pull our pants down for them.


----------



## ryne11 (May 20, 2010)

Hmph. My Naruto/Muhammad Post got remove. Must have offended some Mod or something.


----------



## Watchman (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> What are you fucking saying? ALL of islam didn't attack this cartoonist, FOUR guys did. That's like saying, "Oh some athiest anarchists attacked the White house, therefore all anarchists are terrorists who hate American values [anarchy probably wasn't the best example since they hate all government but you get the point].



You clearly don't understand the point of the drawings in the first place. It's not some "oh lol, let's get revenge on the MUZLEEMZ" nonsense, it's people expressing their right to freedom of speech, hopefully shaming people like Comedy Central into not backpedalling to accomodate the demands of a few lunatics.



> I'll do you one better. Back in the day, you didn't even have to insult Christianity to offend them, if you had nice things and they liked them, "God" had decided the crusaders deserved them and there was nothing you can do about it.
> 
> And ummm...the inquisition of the catholic church? The Dark ages? Their have been so many VIOLENT riots over religion the fact that you said that is flabbergasting.



Great, so you bring up examples from 500 years ago or more to be compared with intolerance today. Do you even realize what you're saying with this?



> Well i've already won this argument, as Facebook clearly agrees with me as they continue to delete the groups.



What does that have to do with anything? Are you disagreeing that the internet is a fast-paced, easily accessible and global instrument that people use to get messages out very quickly and to a lot of people?



> Except the difference is I've looked into a room full of people, friends and not, and cursed them out and proceeded to debunk and shit on every single one of their reasons for joining the group. I practice what I preach bitchboy. Whether you believe me or not I can give two shits about, the point is if I've got a problem in real life I say it, and I've been trying to respond directly to every dumbass in that group.



You are living proof that it's easy to be the world's toughest man from the safety of your keyboard. But sure, let's buy that nonsense. After all, someone as AGRESSIVELY HYPER-MASCULINE as you is clearly the real deal and isn't overcompensating for anything whatsoever.



> *Yawn*, yea i keep hearing the great argument that the action of four or five guys should be used to insult an entire swatch of people.



Again, you're clearly not looking. You've made up your mind as to what it is and won't take any other opinion into account. I can't be arsed to go through the various threads in the Cafe to find you examples that you'd almost certainly ignore in favour of your stupendous "lawl they're just pussies" argument, but here's one super-special argument just for you: (aren't you lucky!)

You make the mistake of acting like this battle between radical Islam and free speech is something that only just appeared as of this episode, instead of it being the same debate that's raged until (at least) the Danish cartoons that when taken out of proportion by Syrian religious figures caused violent rioting. The controversy has been raging since then, with repeat incidents such as the Lars Vilks picture, the subsequent attempted firebombing of his house or him being headbutted during a presentation, etc.

Of course, I can see why you focus on the South Park episode - it's easy to portray people as airheaded poseurs if they're just indignant South Park viewers, but that's sadly not the case, and, as you would know if you were anywhere near as up to date on the situation as you act, the south park episode is just one of the latest of a long line of events where the West has bent over backward to accomodate the wishes of Islam-favourable censorship that they have _never_ done for any other religion.

But since you like bringing up South Park - This very same episode that all this controversy erupted from had Buddha taking drugs, and where the fuck were the outraged Buddhists not-so-subtly sending death threats to Matt and Trey Parker or demanding we tailor ANYTHING to cater to them? Where are the furious Jews angry over every joke made about them (far more offensive than Muhammed in a bear suit) on that show? It's not an attack on Islam, if you actually watched the episode you'd realise that their depiction of Muhammed was more respectful than damn near any other religious figure they've depicted ever, *and that's the fucking point.* That even if Islam is given a better depiction than anyone there will still be people bitching about it, and that's got to stop - that just like *every* other group in Western society that's been given far greater roastings in caricatures, Muslims have to suck it up and not get so overwhelmingly outraged by pictures.


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Watchman said:


> You clearly don't understand the point of the drawings in the first place. It's not some "oh lol, let's get revenge on the MUZLEEMZ" nonsense, it's people expressing their right to freedom of speech, hopefully shaming people like Comedy Central into not backpedalling to accomodate the demands of a few lunatics.



Except you are OBVIOUSLY not in these groups if you think that. From the first page:

"MOHAMMED WAS A CHILD-MOLESTING MASS-MURDERER.
No wonder so many MUSLIM SCUMBAGS follow his every word and action."

"Some of these are really good. my favourites are the ones where he has a penis about to enter his mouth."

etc.

My issue isn't the group, if you look at my post history, I was initially in favor of the idea, until I see the caliber of people participating and realized what it would quickly degenerate to.



> Great, so you bring up examples from 500 years ago or more to be compared with intolerance today. Do you even realize what you're saying with this?









I wanted you to say that . 




> What does that have to do with anything? Are you disagreeing that the internet is a fast-paced, easily accessible and global instrument that people use to get messages out very quickly and to a lot of people?



No, i'm saying they are abusing the site. Facebook specifically says no dissemination of hate speeches or inciting violence.



> You are living proof that it's easy to be the world's toughest man from the safety of your keyboard. But sure, let's buy that nonsense. After all, someone as AGRESSIVELY HYPER-MASCULINE as you is clearly the real deal and isn't overcompensating for anything whatsoever.



Like I said, the internet is a place where if you make one claim your a keyboard jockey, but if you don't your a bullshitter. Either way, I know what I have done in REAL life, and am more than assured in myself. And girl I don't need to overcompensate i'm black .



> Again, you're clearly not looking. You've made up your mind as to what it is and won't take any other opinion into account. I can't be arsed to go through the various threads in the Cafe to find you examples that you'd almost certainly ignore in favour of your stupendous "lawl they're just pussies" argument, but here's one super-special argument just for you: (aren't you lucky!)
> 
> You make the mistake of acting like this battle between radical Islam and free speech is something that only just appeared as of this episode, instead of it being the same debate that's raged until (at least) the Danish cartoons that when taken out of proportion by Syrian religious figures caused violent rioting. The controversy has been raging since then, with repeat incidents such as the Lars Vilks picture, the subsequent attempted firebombing of his house or him being headbutted during a presentation, etc.
> 
> ...



I've said ALL of this already, a month ago:



			
				hyakku said:
			
		

> To be honest, I'm generally a pretty moderate person, but things have been getting quite out of hand in many Western nations appeasing Islamic populations. The burka ban in France, profiling legislation in the UK and TSA profiling of Muslims in America are injust, granted, but this does not mean that our society needs to bend over and take it in the ass for Islam everytime we violate a new rule.
> 
> How is it ok that people blatantly disregard the will of the Catholic church in the media all the time, but Islam gets poked fun at and it's supposed to be antagonizing an entire swath of people? These things happen in the secular world, people make fun of extreme religious zealots, I don't understand what's the big hype about this.
> 
> Have you stopped any of the p*d*p**** or gay jokes about the catholic church in the name of protecting an entire section of the world's population? No? So it's time to stop treating Islam like its above the influences of society, it's just like every other religion; people who believe in it shouldn't be worried about what the outside world is concerned with outside of trying to peacefully spread their message and convert people.



UNTIL I saw the content of the group. See, that's difference between me and you, I adapt when I realize that I've been wrong in the past, can you say the same?

And the one guy getting killed and the other getting his house burned down, again I've already said that those were just FOUR or FIVE of BILLIONS of people. It's ridiculous to get angry at "islam" because of what they did.


----------



## dr_shadow (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> It's called being a real fucking American. America was predicated on the stance that I can hate a mother fucker for everything he is, and still coexistence because of respect for the supreme rule of law.
> 
> The issue with these facebook groups are that EVERY SINGLE ONE degenerate into more than insults, but viruses and malware being posted, people actually threatening each other, etc. Faceook doesn't wanna have more negative publicity when some 16 year old ass gets killed by another 16 year old extremist ass because of some fucking picture. Grow the fuck up. (I didn't mean this rant to you kaiba, was just responding to your general question).



NF is populated by more nationalities than just U.S, you know...


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

mr_shadow said:


> NF is populated by more nationalities than just U.S, you know...



Well I can only speak for MY own opinions, of course everyone will have their own, but to me, being an American is not about spreading good or democracy, it's about creating an equitable environment for all and allowing them to do their own thing. That's what we predicated our country on, despite the contradictions of slavery, women's suffrage, etc., and we should continue to march to that tune.

Now maybe in your country it's different, if you are from China than if I recall correctly you all have an even greater respect for the rule of law and for order because of the many hundreds of years of dynastic and chaotic rule. If this is the case, then its easy for me to understand why tolerance of many religions may seem a bit like a new concept, but it is an ideal that is steeped deep within our American heritage, I can't speak for too many other countries besides some Asian and Middle Eastern nations, which are generally the opposite.


----------



## Watchman (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> Except you are OBVIOUSLY not in these groups if you think that. From the first page:
> 
> "MOHAMMED WAS A CHILD-MOLESTING MASS-MURDERER.
> No wonder so many MUSLIM SCUMBAGS follow his every word and action."
> ...



Where did I ever claim to be in the group? I support the *idea*. Just like the morons in the Tea Party don't mean I no longer support Democracy or Free Speech.



>



Attacks motivated by politics, not religion. Christians committing crime =/= Crime motivated by Christianity. Or should I 


And the existence of these two groups means what, exactly? Can you post some incidents where they started attacking Muslims (or anyone) over depictions of Jesus? Again, the existence of nutjobs does not automatically equate to the riots unleashed by caricatures of Mohammed.



> No, i'm saying they are abusing the site. Facebook specifically says no dissemination of hate speeches or inciting violence.



Which didn't refer to my original point at all.



> I've said ALL of this already, a month ago:



Congratulations?



> UNTIL I saw the content of the group. See, that's difference between me and you, I adapt when I realize that I've been wrong in the past, can you say the same?



The difference is that I can espouse the message without being part of a group. But I'm curious, if some racist comments from a few morons are enough to put you off something so thoroughly, how can you continue to support democracy when people like the Tea Party and BNP exist? 



> And the one guy getting killed and the other getting his house burned down, again I've already said that those were just FOUR or FIVE of BILLIONS of people. It's ridiculous to get angry at "islam" because of what they did.



Did you even read my post? I find it hard to believe you did when you make comments like this.


----------



## Garfield (May 20, 2010)

Going in with the big guns I see


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's called being apologetic. I've never seen this kind of defense for Christian faith, which is trampled on here all the time, but when it comes to this, oh, you know we gotta respect their faith and all and bend over and pull our pants down for them.



If you can point me to the last time i ridiculed jesus or christians without dissing relgion as a whole, and i am a principal disser of this "draw" activity, please do so.  

I don't think you'll find it cause in general i don't care for insulting people on their religious beliefs, even if those beliefs are not my own.

eg. every day i endure my supervisor's rants on how un-christian and sinful gays are, and they're anti-christian gay agenda.  He's a super nice guy when he's not on that shit.  So i just ignore the nonsense and let him work out his own issues.  Are you guys gonna show him ur dick cause he's anti gay? or spam him with gay porn?


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Watchman said:


> Where did I ever claim to be in the group? I support the *idea*. Just like the morons in the Tea Party don't mean I no longer support Democracy or Free Speech.



so you admit you weren't even in the group, yet you support what they are saying, yet if you go in their mainpage its obvious it has been degrading into a hate group. I didn't even have to scroll down to find those.




> Attacks motivated by politics, not religion. Christians committing crime =/= Crime motivated by Christianity.



Except part of right wing extremists core ideology is extremist Christianity. The second article is DEFINITELY religiously motivated:


> Hutaree's website declares it is "preparing for the end of time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive." It features a photo of its armed members posing in military apparel and includes a forum of "beasts" to monitor, counting the European Union and digital chips as potentially dangerous.



That's all out of the book of Revelation, what are you talking about? Have you never read the Bible?



> And the existence of these two groups means what, exactly? Can you post some incidents where they started attacking Muslims (or anyone) over depictions of Jesus? Again, the existence of nutjobs does not automatically equate to the riots unleashed by caricatures of Mohammed.



I don't understand why the fact that christians have weak faith means that muslims should do. I think religion is ridiculous, but if I believed that it was gonna damn me or save me eternally, I would probably take it as serious as they do too. I mean what the fuck, it's not like all those people did anything, why just go out and depict their seminal figure as a Dog, especially when you know a dog is one of the most despicable animals in their religion? It's just unnecessary, extraneous, and he paid the costs.

You always have a choice, yes, you can choose to incite anger, but why are you suprised or even siding with a guy who INTENTIONALLY PROVOKED BILLIONS of people. It's fucking ridiculous, just because people do it all the time doesn't make it fucking smart or constructive, it just means you have more asshats doing the same retarded thing.



> The difference is that I can espouse the message without being part of a group. But I'm curious, if some racist comments from a few morons are enough to put you off something so thoroughly, how can you continue to support democracy when people like the Tea Party and BNP exist?



I'm not islamic if that's what you're trying to imply. And it's not a few, its THOUSANDS, and its not the racist comments, it's the misguidedness. My generation is filled with a bunch of fucking cocks that think protesting means getting on facebook and passing out fliers to people who go by on campus. That's not revolution, its not protesting, its fucking day time informing This facebook group isn't a vehicle for change like they all purport, it's just a bunch of fucking nuts circle jerking each other to how much they hate Islam.

I can support democracy for the same reason I continue to argue with people like you and the people in that group; i believe in the infallibility of our democratic system as an adaptive force, backed up by a malleable political infrastructure and more importantly, that even if you just get one in a million to stop being so damn ignorant, it's still progress.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (May 20, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's called being apologetic. I've never seen this kind of defense for Christian faith, which is trampled on here all the time, but when it comes to this, oh, you know we gotta respect their faith and all and bend over and pull our pants down for them.


*
Christians generally have a lot less respect for their religion then Muslims, as least from what I've seen. 

Anyway this is immature. I agree the Muslims did overreact in response to the drawing but this "Everyone draw Mohammad day" isn't really gonna help anyone. 
*


----------



## sadated_peon (May 20, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> you are a troll trying to disguise urself as someone reasonable.  I can't believe the things u say, like drawing mohammed will free you from tyranny
> 
> what other things will you draw today to save the world ?


I am trolling by posting what someone said in another thread?
You consider quoting someone as trolling?

I pointed out where N120 earlier said do violence against someone for their depiction of Muhammad, in response to him saying that he does not support violence. 

Most of your posts recently have just been you projecting your issues onto me and others. Its quite funny to read.


----------



## Watchman (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> so you admit you weren't even in the group, yet you support what they are saying, yet if you go in their mainpage its obvious it has been degrading into a hate group. I didn't even have to scroll down to find those.



Inability to even read my post.



> Except part of right wing extremists core ideology is extremist Christianity. The second article is DEFINITELY religiously motivated:



No it's not. It's one of those wacky Libertarian anti-Government militias that just happens to be made up of Christians. Again, post an article that's actually about Christians reacting violently to a cartoon or a caricature or something.



> I don't understand why the fact that christians have weak faith means that muslims should do.



And here's where I call bullshit on your claim that you ever actually believed in  the ideal these groups followed.



> I think religion is ridiculous, but if I believed that it was gonna damn me or save me eternally, I would probably take it as serious as they do too. I mean what the fuck, it's not like all those people did anything, why just go out and depict their seminal figure as a Dog, especially when you know a dog is one of the most despicable animals in their religion? It's just unnecessary, extraneous, and he paid the costs.



Because here in the 21st century, we don't respond to criticism or caricature with violence.



> You always have a choice, yes, you can choose to incite anger, but why are you suprised or even siding with a guy who INTENTIONALLY PROVOKED BILLIONS of people.



Being offended is the choice - nobody can FORCE you to feel angry over a drawing.



> I'm in islamic if that's what you're trying to imply. And it's not a few, its THOUSANDS



Which is still a few compared to the actual number of people in favour of upholding freedom of speech.



> and its not the racist comments, it's the misguidedness. My generation is filled with a bunch of fucking cocks that think protesting means getting on facebook and passing out fliers to people who go by on campus. That's not revolution, its not protesting, its fucking day time informing This facebook group isn't a vehicle for change like they all purport, it's just a bunch of fucking nuts circle jerking each other to how much they hate Islam.



And your story changes again. First you were turned off by racist and derogatory comments and now it's not even that. Try to stick to a single story. :/



> I can support democracy for the same reason I continue to argue with people like you and the people in that group; i believe in the infallibility of our democratic system as an adaptive force, backed up by a malleable political infrastructure and more importantly, that even if you just get one in a million to stop being so damn ignorant, it's still progress.



Well that's all very well and good for you. I believe the same. If we can get even one of the millions of Muslims out there to realise their religion deserves no special protection above that of other religions, then it is progress.


----------



## Mohammed the Awesome (May 20, 2010)

*I'm Loving It!*


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Watchman said:


> Inability to even read my post.



How do you agree with an idea of a group you're not even a part of? I too was down for "their" idea, until I realized they have NO ideas. If you wanna battle for free speech, do it like the Pakistani's are doing, in the streets, loud and impressive. These guys are just drawing pictures thinking they are rebelling, but it's not as if its illegal in America, and your free speech isn't in violation, so literally the only thing this is attempting to do is incite Muslims.

And if you say its because Comedy central folded, then you'd be ignoring the rest of the constitution and our laws that allots for private entities to do whatever the fuck they want with their property. Do you think after all this comedy central would go, "Oh yea, we should put the episode on NOW that everyones ALSO angry." Again, proving that this group started and ended with a spark of a bright idea, followed by an onslaught of stupidity. 




> No it's not. It's one of those wacky Libertarian anti-Government militias that just happens to be made up of Christians. Again, post an article that's actually about Christians reacting violently to a cartoon or a caricature or something.



What the fuck? They claim they were preparing for the end times and were watching the Euro in case in turned into the mark of the beast. 

Finding a story about Christians reacting violently to a cartoon today will be impossible on google with the amount of stories popping up, but are you trying to imply that Christian's are justified in reacting violently to the beginning of the euro or because they think its the end times, but a Muslim can't be angry about you drawing the most holy figure in his religion despicably? Ok, cool story.



> And here's where I call bullshit on your claim that you ever actually believed in  the ideal these groups followed.



Well then you're an idiot because it's saved in my post history a month ago. Derp derp derp.



> Because here in the 21st century, we don't respond to criticism or caricature with violence.



 



> Being offended is the choice - nobody can FORCE you to feel angry over a drawing.



Umm no...drawing the picture is the choice. Derp derp derp.



> Which is still a few compared to the actual number of people in favour of upholding freedom of speech.



Who is AGAINST freedom of speech here? There's a difference between hate speech and criticism, and what's on that group is MOSTLY hate media. Period. 



> And your story changes again. First you were turned off by racist and derogatory comments and now it's not even that. Try to stick to a single story. :/



Their many failures can't be enumerated in one instance, it takes me many revisits to learn about the new depths of ignorance they reach by the second.




> Well that's all very well and good for you. I believe the same. If we can get even one of the millions of Muslims out there to realise their religion deserves no special protection above that of other religions, then it is progress.



Again, I've already wrote that, but that's not what this group's aim is. If it was, the admin would be removing and deleting people who are advocating to kill muslims and hate speech (which would also be in lines with the ToS) and seeking moderate muslims to help augment the image of them being normal like everyone else, not elevating them to the highest point in the news as all terrorists and extremists.


----------



## BAD BD (May 20, 2010)

MODS HATE FREEDOM


----------



## Kind of a big deal (May 20, 2010)

Picture unrelated


----------



## Koi (May 20, 2010)

Let's have "Everybody Draw Jesus, Krishna, Buddha and Any Other Deity I May Have Missed That Isn't Mohammad Day!"

Oh wait.  That's literally every day ever.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 20, 2010)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *
> Christians generally have a lot less respect for their religion then Muslims, as least from what I've seen.
> 
> Anyway this is immature. I agree the Muslims did overreact in response to the drawing but this "Everyone draw Mohammad day" isn't really gonna help anyone.
> *



Maybe.

You're missing the point on why people do it. 

This is what I'm having the issue with. Of all the shit we do on this forum, of all the shit that goes across the internet, NOW people are worried about offending people, and over what's immature or not? Really? Come on...


----------



## mystictrunks (May 20, 2010)

Koi said:


> Let's have "Everybody Draw Jesus, Krishna, Buddha and Any Other Deity I May Have Missed That Isn't Mohammad Day!"
> 
> Oh wait.  That's literally every day ever.



Most of those religions actually encourage depictions of their prophets and deities.


----------



## ryne11 (May 20, 2010)

The Awesomest Mohammed said:


> If in today's world it is considered to be "trollish and asshatish in nature" to post a picture of some desert prophet to help defend the lives of those brave cartoonists that came before us, then i wouldn't want to be anything else!



Actually, I was commenting more on your other posts about biting your ass and the other shit you have been posting non picture related.

Also, Quote before Delete/Ban


----------



## Vanthebaron (May 20, 2010)

I made a drawing where can I post it.


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## Zhariel (May 20, 2010)

Vanthebaron said:


> I made a drawing where can I post it.



Thread in the Plaza for it


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## KidTony (May 20, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _my try_ 





Uploaded with


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## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

This day is just too epic.


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## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

Does anyone know where the thread in the plaza went?


----------



## Zabuzalives (May 20, 2010)

Kurt already made a good point. 


No to censorship.

No to caving in for violence. 

also: Go to hell comedy central.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Most of those religions actually encourage depictions of their prophets and deities.


So? We're not Muslim and we have no obligation to follow their religious law. If something is offensive to them that other religions commonly do they should either isolate themselves because its their problem or deal with it. The answer isn't to pitch a fit every time it happens. 

I mean I just saw a Family Guy where Jesus overdosed on cocaine on the floor of the Olson Twin's house. You don't think I find that offensive? The dumb thing is that its a lot more than a simple depiction but if I got on here and even talked about punching Seth McFarland people would act like I was being a total dick and no one would make any excuse for me. (even McFarland probably deserves to die for his sins against comedy in general)

And your defense of them being this sensitive is just really sad, like who gives a flying fuck about their feelings.


----------



## xxSasorixx (May 20, 2010)

Why are you purposely trying to anger/upset people who haven't wronged you in any way?

What I mean exactly is that I'm not a terrorist, I haven't killed anyone and most Muslim's aren't like that either so why are you deliberately trying to offend us?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

xxSasorixx said:


> Why are you purposely trying to anger/upset people who haven't wronged you in any way?
> 
> What I mean exactly is that I'm not a terrorist, I haven't killed anyone and most Muslim's aren't like that either so why are you deliberately trying to offend us?


*shrug* boredom. 

And actually I think Sunvanman explained it pretty well earlier.


----------



## xxSasorixx (May 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> *shrug* boredom.
> 
> And actually I think Sunvanman explained it pretty well earlier.



So you're just a jerk


----------



## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

xxSasorixx said:


> Why are you purposely trying to anger/upset people who haven't wronged you in any way?
> 
> What I mean exactly is that I'm not a terrorist, I haven't killed anyone and most Muslim's aren't like that either so why are you deliberately trying to offend us?




Well, I don't like 90% of your religion, I abhor every single government that uses your religious laws, and I stand for the right of me drawing whichever I want and that includes whatever I think it's the aspect that a crazy pedo a billion people follow and blow themselves up for. And the moment some other people try it and get cockblocked because that's where the fear is at, then I will stand with whomever gives me strength and I'll do it.

Jerk, moi? Talk to me when something like a Fatwa no longer exists and thousand of muslims don't go walk around pillaging stores and vandalizing cars whining about wanting respect.


----------



## T4R0K (May 20, 2010)

Koi said:


> Let's have "Everybody Draw Jesus, Krishna, Buddha and Any Other Deity I May Have Missed That Isn't Mohammad Day!"
> 
> Oh wait.  That's literally every day ever.



Must... resist... posting !

Guuuuuuuu...

ARGH !


And if anyone finds it offensive, take a chill pill ! I almost made it a cover for religious metal, metal that is beyond christian metal, jewish metal of Islametal ! IT'S FOR EVERYONE !


----------



## xxSasorixx (May 20, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Well, I don't like 90% of your religion, I abhor every single government that uses your religious laws, and I stand for the right of me drawing whichever I want and that includes whatever I think it's the aspect that a crazy pedo a billion people follow and blow themselves up for. And the moment some other people try it and get cockblocked because that's where the fear is at, then I will stand with whomever gives me strength and I'll do it.
> 
> Jerk, moi? Talk to me when something like a Fatwa no longer exists and thousand of muslims don't go walk around pillaging stores and vandalizing cars whining about wanting respect.



You don't know enough about my religion to say you hate 90% of it.

Still though, what does drawing do other than annoy, upset and anger people you've never met?


----------



## Altron (May 20, 2010)

T4R0K said:


> Must... resist... posting !
> 
> Guuuuuuuu...
> 
> ...


I'd rep you if I could


----------



## Al-Yasa (May 20, 2010)

i wonder if you people would have the guts to go up to group of muslims in real life and do it


----------



## Patchouli (May 20, 2010)

Al-Yasa said:


> i wonder if you people would have the guts to go up to group of muslims in real life and do it



If by "it" you mean challenge them to a dance-off, then yes, I do


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 20, 2010)

Al-Yasa said:


> i wonder if you people would have the guts to go up to group of muslims in real life and do it



Hm. A subtle implication that we would be met with violence if we did so, which would only affirm people's negative views on Islam and its followers and the belief that many of them only know how to resolve issues with violence and threats of it.

Pretty much stating this, you only give people more reason to hold stereotypical views of you guys.


----------



## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

xxSasorixx said:


> You don't know enough about my religion to say you hate 90% of it.



Let's see. An arab group of self entitled patronizing loons followed a war chief around with his god knows how many wives one of them a nine year old and and the ability to turn into fire and preached out of no humility or real wisdom how everyone else should live, seven hundred years before the language and other details of the book had ever been invented, in a movement of bastards that to this day still execute homosexuals and female rape victims, while putting fatwas against cartoonists.



> Still though, what does drawing do other than annoy, upset and anger people you've never met?



Lets me stand for something.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

Al-Yasa said:


> i wonder if you people would have the guts to go up to group of muslims in real life and do it


I don't know...can I be armed during the exchange?


----------



## xxSasorixx (May 20, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Let's see. An arab group of self entitled patronizing loons followed a war chief around with his god knows how many wives one of them a nine year old and and the ability to turn into fire and preached out of no humility or real wisdom how everyone else should live, seven hundred years before the language and other details of the book had ever been invented, in a movement of bastards that to this day still execute homosexuals and female rape victims, while putting fatwas against cartoonists.



I'm a Muslim
Number of Gays and Rape Victims I've Killed: 0
Number of Gays and Rape Victims my Family and Muslim Friends have Killed: 0
Get my point? - You can't judge all Muslims by the actions of some.



Banhammer said:


> Lets me stand for something.



Why not environmental protection?


----------



## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

xxSasorixx said:


> I'm a Muslim
> Number of Gays and Rape Victims I've Killed: 0
> Number of Gays and Rape Victims my Family and Muslim Friends have Killed: 0
> Get my point? - You can't judge all Muslims by the actions of a some.


Sorry, did you say something? I'm pretty sure it was a heartwarming argument about something but I couldn't hear it over the sound of facebook and youtube being blocked.





> Why not environmental protection?



Astonishingly enough I can do both.


----------



## xxSasorixx (May 20, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Sorry, did you say something? I'm pretty sure it was a heartwarming argument about something but I couldn't hear it over the sound of facebook and youtube being blocked.



I'm not going to change your views, am I?

It must be down to all the propaganda you've exposed yourself to.


----------



## Adonis (May 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I don't know...can I be armed during the exchange?



This.

I doubt they'd have the courtesy not to gang up on me or be armed with sticks and the like, so why should I be expected to walk into an unfair gangbang for my convictions? Totally a coward for not soloing an angry mob. [/sarcasm]

One-on-one, hell yeah. 

Of course, I'm not even drawing Muhammed so it's a moot point for me.

Edit: Hyakku, your argument is that Muslims *really* _really_ take their religion seriously, ergo, we ought to make special accomodations for their feelings we afford to no one else? What about Christian fundamentalists who are just as genuine in their faith with as much fervor? Shouldn't they be above criticism and offense, too, by your reasoning?

No one is free from offense. If I could declare jihad on what offended me, there'd be very few heads unknocked. Solution: Get over it. Or better yet, stop worshipping a man as a deity.


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

xxSasorixx said:


> I'm a Muslim
> Number of Gays and Rape Victims I've Killed: 0
> Number of Gays and Rape Victims my Family and Muslim Friends have Killed: 0
> Get my point? - You can't judge all Muslims by the actions of some.
> ...



Logic fails on those that don't wish to see it. It's pointless man, you've got answers from both of them. One is just bored and trolling, the other is just ignorant of the religion. 

There is a term in Islam, I remember being told of, that's similar to essentially saying that a devout Muslim must be magnanimous in the face of vehement opposition. Regardless of what it is, remember that man. I'm not religious, but to defeat ignorance and close mindedness it requires magnanimity.

They will continue to feel justified in unwarranted attacks on Islam based off of their own ignorance, blindness and unwillingness to adhere to many of the Christian's very own "golden rule." 

It's funny, because one common argument, is that other religions draw their figures, but Islam believes in Jesus as well, and many of them have issues with having Jesus drawn as well (this is not as controversial as Mohammed, but I'm sure an actual Muslim could).


----------



## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

Al-Yasa said:


> i wonder if you people would have the guts to go up to group of muslims in real life and do it



That would be clever wouldnt, get my head kicked in. No, would rather vaguely offend them with very little risk.


----------



## Adonis (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> Logic fails on those that don't wish to see it. It's pointless man, you've got answers from both of them. One is just bored and trolling, the other is just ignorant of the religion.
> 
> There is a term in Islam, I remember being told of, that's similar to essentially saying that a devout Muslim must be magnanimous in the face of vehement opposition. Regardless of what it is, remember that man. I'm not religious, but to defeat ignorance and close mindedness it requires magnanimity.



Magnanimity is an arrogant way od saying condescending. "Oh yes, your little mind is beneath me, but I'll humor you silly peons!"



> They will continue to feel justified in unwarranted attacks on Islam based off of their own ignorance, blindness and unwillingness to adhere to many of the Christian's very own "golden rule."



Good thing I'm not Christian. 

Few attacks on religion as an institution are unwarranted. The only justifiable thing about them is that their followers are so fickle and inconsistent in following their doctrines that the religion becomes personalized and unrecognizable as said religion beyond a few dogmas and the name. 

Following a religion to the letter, even among adherents of that group, is rightly viewed as pejorative. Like saying cyanide isn't a poison because someone's found a way to ingest it in manageable doses with minimal damage to their health.

My favorite argument is "Religion doesn't *insert bad thing*! People do!" When does ideology ever exist in a vacuum devoid of people to act it out? One could claim Nazism [Godwin's Law] isn't evil for simply existing as a thought, but any ideology that becomes destructive when enacted _is_ destructive. It's like claiming a gun isn't a deadly weapon unless you shoot it. 



> It's funny, because one common argument, is that other religions draw their figures, but Islam believes in Jesus as well, and many of them have issues with having Jesus drawn as well (this is not as controversial as Mohammed, but I'm sure an actual Muslim could).




They have issues but (key difference) they grit their teeth and get over it OR use _their_ free speech to announce their outrage. They typically don't actually commit acts of violence over such trivial things even if they threaten to. Most are excited they have further "proof" of persecution and more "evidence" that the world is a God-hating playground of Satan.


----------



## xxSasorixx (May 20, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Get over it. Or better yet, stop worshipping a man as a deity.



He is not a deity and should not be worshipped as such, that's a very important point in Islam


----------



## hcheng02 (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> Logic fails on those that don't wish to see it. It's pointless man, you've got answers from both of them. One is just bored and trolling, the other is just ignorant of the religion.
> 
> There is a term in Islam, I remember being told of, that's similar to essentially saying that a devout Muslim must be magnanimous in the face of vehement opposition. Regardless of what it is, remember that man. I'm not religious, but to defeat ignorance and close mindedness it requires magnanimity.
> 
> ...



The golden rule says to do onto others as others would do onto you. If other people can and do draw pictures that mock Jesus and God for Christians - which IIRC run counter to one of the Commandments to not take the Lord's name in vain - then Muslims should be receiving the same treatment.


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## Adonis (May 20, 2010)

xxSasorixx said:


> He is not a deity and should not be worshipped as such, that's a very important point in Islam



Deeming a man "undrawable" crosses the line from "respect" over into quasi-worship. 

You may not consider it such, but that's how the bizarre stipulation comes off. Most bans on drawings in Abrahamic religions apply directly to God, yet I'm not supposed to consider it applying to Mohammed as a sort of worship?


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

xxSasorixx said:


> I'm not going to change your views, am I?
> 
> It must be down to all the propaganda you've exposed yourself to.



That sounds like a tipically "magnamious" way of baaawing and giving up rather than try to point out where I'm wrong.


> He is not a deity and should not be worshipped as such, that's a very important point in Islam



However if you draw this firebreathing puckelberry you will make his mojoness mad and your religion will be officially under attack


Geeeh, what a strong faith in religion so many muslim people must have for putting up riots on account of a cartoon. that's all it takes to take down mohamed? A drawing?

I'm gonna make another one. of him. on a bear costume.
I inspired myself on his nine year old wive


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## xxSasorixx (May 20, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> That sounds like a tipically "magnamious" way of baaawing and giving up rather than try to point out where I'm wrong.
> 
> 
> However if you draw this firebreathing puckelberry you will make his mojoness mad and your religion will be officially under attack
> ...



I can't believe you gave me negative rep!

I didn't give you negative rep, and I still haven't and just so everyone knows the comment he gave me was "Too much green there buddy".

I was pretty proud of that rep and it was and still is nice to know that some people agree with my comments.

Whatever, I'm going to take the advice one of the people who green repped me gave and just leave you be


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

What do people think of my drawing, if its spelt wrong does it make it more offensive? He is a happy worm who brings happyness to his followers.


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## Enigma (May 20, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Deeming a man "undrawable" crosses the line from "respect" over into quasi-worship.
> 
> You may not consider it such, but that's how the bizarre stipulation comes off. Most bans on drawings in Abrahamic religions apply directly to God, yet I'm not supposed to consider it applying to Mohammed as a sort of worship?



Well Muhammad wasn't specifically deemed "undrawable," it' basically all prophets, and all animate things to Muslims.


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## Sylar (May 20, 2010)

Needs a beard, Eboue.


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

xxSasorixx said:


> I can't believe you gave me negative rep!
> ...


Piece of advice. Bawing about rep = Begging for a negging


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## xxSasorixx (May 20, 2010)

At least the red matches the Sasori theme I've got going on


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

A beard is needed, what else is need may i ask? Bombs are so yesterday in mohammed drawings, what makes an original mohammed drawing?



Any more suggestions?


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## Sylar (May 20, 2010)

A headwrap. It definately needs a headwrap.


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

headwrap on fire


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## abcd (May 20, 2010)

Muslims are reacting exactly how others want them to react ...

If they just ignore the issue ppl would get bored of it... 

I now understand the proverb.. Making a mountain out of a molehill


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## Sylar (May 20, 2010)

Making a fatwa out of a Far Side...


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## Adonis (May 20, 2010)

Enigma said:


> Well Muhammad wasn't specifically deemed "undrawable," it' basically all prophets, and all animate things to Muslims.



So Muslims get this outraged over other prophets and _anything_ animate being drawn? If not, my point about preference applies.


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

OK, Done.


Anything else to improve it?


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## Sylar (May 20, 2010)

Needs something on the right side...


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## Seto Kaiba (May 20, 2010)

A terrified 9-year old girl maybe?


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

Hum ok. will try with the girl but it might be difficult considering my limited talent


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## Sylar (May 20, 2010)

That girl should also be on fire.


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## Enigma (May 20, 2010)

Adonis said:


> So Muslims get this outraged over other prophets and _anything_ animate being drawn? If not, my point about preference applies.



Muslims most likely wouldn't get this outraged since Muhammad seems to be the "greatest" prophet. They probably get outraged because Muhammad is drawn in a derogatory manner, unlike the drawings of other prophets.


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

you can always copy paste a girl out of the internet and then set it on fire


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

Ok, took in the late woman on fire request, thats just the kind of guy i am.


Anything else or is this the final finished original mohammed drawing?


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## Ennoea (May 20, 2010)

Why does Mohammed look like a baguette?


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

A sword maybe. If not then it's good.


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> you can always copy paste a girl out of the internet and then set it on fire



I dont steal material.


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

Ennoea said:


> Why does Mohammed look like a baguette?



Its a worm. And its meant to be a new take on the boring old bombs and shit mohammed pictures, its FRESH.


----------



## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Edit: Hyakku, your argument is that Muslims *really* _really_ take their religion seriously, ergo, we ought to make special accomodations for their feelings we afford to no one else? What about Christian fundamentalists who are just as genuine in their faith with as much fervor? Shouldn't they be above criticism and offense, too, by your reasoning?
> 
> No one is free from offense. If I could declare jihad on what offended me, there'd be very few heads unknocked. Solution: Get over it. Or better yet, stop worshipping a man as a deity.



No my argument is that they disapprove of most images of prophets and shit, but they ARE tolerant in general, so when they ask, "Hey could you at the very least not draw our holiest figure [note that this does NOT say divine] just to keep pushing it?"

Why are all of you so afraid of their fervent faith? And don't say it doesn't. It terrifies you, you resent it. When people are afraid the deny or they laugh, in this case you've chosen to do both. I mean really, now all Muslims support Jihad of cartoons? LOL, ok buddy. It's fine with me that your soft, but I don't hold that same fear, and I can understand being pissed when some "e revolutionaries" insult you over and over, looking for a response, so that they can go, "SEE, LOOK HOW EBUL THEY ARE." Lol, you're a joke.



> The golden rule says to do onto others as others would do onto you. If other people can and do draw pictures that mock Jesus and God for Christians - which IIRC run counter to one of the Commandments to not take the Lord's name in vain - then Muslims should be receiving the same treatment



Finally, some real debate and thought for fucking once. 

I agree with you cheng, but i would contend that the following is why Muslims take issue with this. Many people assert that because Christian and other figures are drawn, Islamic figures should be allowed to too, but Muslims DON'T draw other people's religious figures, they prefer not to draw ANY prophets or holy men (disciples, etc.). 

THIS, is why I think this argument lacks merit, if Muslims were drawing Jesus, Zoroaster or whoever all the time, then they would have not foothold, but the abstain from drawing him as well. 

I'm no apologist, you know that from my Hiroshima opinions, but I don't go out intentionally violating people for the sake of it you know? If they really wanna stomp out extremism, there are far more constructive and more importantly efficient ways of doing so.


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## maj1n (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> I agree with you cheng, but i would contend that the following is why Muslims take issue with this. Many people assert that because Christian and other figures are drawn, Islamic figures should be allowed to too, but Muslims DON'T draw other people's religious figures, they prefer not to draw ANY prophets or holy men (disciples, etc.).
> 
> THIS, is why I think this argument lacks merit, if Muslims were drawing Jesus, Zoroaster or whoever all the time, then they would have not foothold, but the abstain from drawing him as well.
> 
> I'm no apologist, you know that from my Hiroshima opinions, but I don't go out intentionally violating people for the sake of it you know? If they really wanna stomp out extremism, there are far more constructive and more importantly efficient ways of doing so.


Wrong.

Muslims areupset as they see it a derogatory statement against their religion (and them), if it was just because of a 'drawing' then we wouldnt get people like Ayaan Hirsli fleeing for her life for writing a 'derogatory' book of Islam and its treatment of women.

Why it is hypocritical is because Islam by definition 'insults' every other religion too, and non-muslims


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

There is some argument for Christians being against drawings too, some of them consider it idolatry...so now we need to give all Christian prophets the same place as Mohammad right?


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

> Why are all of you so afraid of their fervent faith?



Because people who draw cartoons or throw a single line of criticism get fatwas and stabbed in the middle of the street.


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 20, 2010)

You people are stupiiiidddd, let this thread die alreadyyyyy.

Muslims suck, USA pwns. Freedom of Speech bitchessss. 

/Thread


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## Chee (May 20, 2010)

My contribution, I uploaded it on the Facebook page yesterday:


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

Lol i like, i think my Worm is better. By the way, can i have a fatwa?


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## makeoutparadise (May 20, 2010)

Chee said:


> My contribution, I uploaded it on the Facebook page yesterday:



where is this falbled page?


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## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

Eboue said:


> Ok, took in the late woman on fire request, thats just the kind of guy i am.
> 
> 
> Anything else or is this the final finished original mohammed drawing?



I always knew Muhammed was a cockroach...


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## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

Chee said:


> My contribution, I uploaded it on the Facebook page yesterday:



It should read "U MohamMAD?"


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## Chee (May 20, 2010)

^^ Haha, NICE!



makeoutparadise said:


> where is this falbled page?


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

Its a worm! a cockroach could be considered offensive but a worm.. ah. Yeh ok. Interpret it how you will, is it a cockroach, a worm, a giant fat man with no legs? Interesting.


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## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

Eboue said:


> Its a worm! a cockroach could be considered offensive but a worm.. ah. Yeh ok. Interpret it how you will, is it a cockroach, a worm, a giant fat man with no legs? Interesting.



Eh..it looks like a pretty deformed worm, or a worm trying to regenerate itself but doing so with much failure. Given the color texture of a worm, it still looks like a cockroach. Just put some legs and antenna on it and you have the perfect insult to Islam.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 20, 2010)

Eboue said:


> Its a worm! a cockroach could be considered offensive but a worm.. ah. Yeh ok. Interpret it how you will, is it a cockroach, a worm, a giant fat man with no legs? Interesting.



I SAY IT IS A BEETLE LARVA!!!


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

Damn it, Just like the Qu'ran its down to how you interpret it, were gonna have a holy war on our hands about it soon. THE WORM SAYS EXECUTE THE NON BELIEVERS, THEY WORSHIP THEIR FALSE COCKROACHES AND BEETLE LARVA!!


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## Sylar (May 20, 2010)

Fatwa on you!!!!! BURN INFIDELS BURN!!!


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

Sylar said:


> Fatwa on you!!!!! BURN INFIDELS BURN!!!



BURN IN THE RIGHTEOUS FIRE THAT IS OUR PROPHET'S WRATH! YOU WILL RUE THE DAY YOU TURNED ON WINDOWS PAINTBRUSH AND WAGED WAR UPON OUR HEAVENS!


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## sadated_peon (May 20, 2010)

before I forget


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## hcheng02 (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> No my argument is that they disapprove of most images of prophets and shit, but they ARE tolerant in general, so when they ask, "Hey could you at the very least not draw our holiest figure [note that this does NOT say divine] just to keep pushing it?"
> 
> Why are all of you so afraid of their fervent faith? And don't say it doesn't. It terrifies you, you resent it. When people are afraid the deny or they laugh, in this case you've chosen to do both. I mean really, now all Muslims support Jihad of cartoons? LOL, ok buddy. It's fine with me that your soft, but I don't hold that same fear, and I can understand being pissed when some "e revolutionaries" insult you over and over, looking for a response, so that they can go, "SEE, LOOK HOW EBUL THEY ARE." Lol, you're a joke.
> 
> ...



What other supposedly more efficient ways are there? Either you are allowed to draw these pictures or you are not. Its not simply the matter of drawing the pictures, but as majin pointed out its the act of being able to do something even if its meant to be offensive. Thats the whole point of having freedom of speech - to say something offensive without fear of physical harm. 

Look at the difference between the reactions of Catholics with Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code and Muslim reaction to the Muhammad drawings and the Satanic Verses. I don't see how the Da Vinci Code could possibly be less offensive to Catholics than these drawings are to Muslims. It basically said that the Church teachings are a flat out lie, that Jesus got married, and that the Church is a vast conspiracy willing to kill in order to preserve their power and hide the truth. It basically tells a story that is one heresy after another. 

The Pope and Church officials did plenty of complaining and protesting. However did not issue commands to believers to kill Dan Brown nor did Catholics say that Dan Brown deserves to be hunted down and hurt like many Muslims in this thread are saying right now. Instead they talked it out and gave their opinions in a civilized manner. People are still able to sell and write books insinuating how Opus Dei and the Church have this vast conspiracy. Thats not the case here, where people who do something similar with Muslims literally have to fear for their lives, and the layman Muslim thinks that seems to be perfectly alright. Its not.

There is a clear difference between not saying something because the other guy protests and not saying something because of fear from physical harm. If the Muslims were simply making protests or boycotts, they are perfectly allowed to do so. I might think of them as a little thin skinned - just like I think Christians who boycott The Last Temptation of Christ movie or the Da Vinci Code need to grow up - but it is within their right to do so. However, the line stops at physical threats and violence. That attitude is unacceptable in the West, and if they choose to live here and enjoy those freedoms and liberties then they must abide to the social contract that applies to everyone. It is there responsibility as free thinking adults to do so or else they should not have access to those privileges.


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## Tleilaxu (May 20, 2010)

Since I cant draw I post this


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## Sylar (May 20, 2010)

That's horrible offensive.

Mohammed always drank scotch not martinis.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Lol, everytime the west "goes there" and draws muhammed just to do it, they end up fucking their own asses.  by this time comedy central has censored the asshattery, so has facebook. youtube yet?  I mean, it looks major pussy to start something and not finish. 

Anyway, what's the next step for you free speech fighters? I'm curious as to what u have in mind.


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## Adonis (May 20, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> Lol, everytime the west "goes there" and draws muhammed just to do it, they end up fucking their own asses.  by this time comedy central has censored the asshattery, so has facebook. youtube yet?  I mean, it looks major pussy to start something and not finish.
> 
> Anyway, what's the next step for you free speech fighters? I'm curious as to what u have in mind.



Nothing.

Nobody went to war, Muslims aren't any more outraged than they usually are, and people got their lulz.

All of your fearmongering was for naught and seeing a craven apologist like you have to resort to snide jeering in order to save face is reward enough.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Nothing.
> 
> Nobody went to war, Muslims aren't any more outraged than they usually are, and people got their lulz.
> 
> All of your fearmongering was for naught and seeing a craven apologist like you have to resort to snide jeering in order to save face is reward enough.



lol, ur claiming victory? ur more censored than ever! by "your own"! hahah 

the effect for u was negative.


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## hyakku (May 20, 2010)

hcheng02 said:


> What other supposedly more efficient ways are there? Either you are allowed to draw these pictures or you are not. Its not simply the matter of drawing the pictures, but as majin pointed out its the act of being able to do something even if its meant to be offensive. Thats the whole point of having freedom of speech - to say something offensive without fear of physical harm.



I think I should make myself clear, I'm not in support of them not drawing mohammed. Whether you do or not, thats up to you, I'm going to abstain. I have a specific problem (and I should be more clear in the future) with the depictions of equal extremism as those who would, lets say for example, draw Jesus sucking dick (which I've seen multiple times in that thread today).



> Look at the difference between the reactions of Catholics with Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code and Muslim reaction to the Muhammad drawings and the Satanic Verses. I don't see how the Da Vinci Code could possibly be less offensive to Catholics than these drawings are to Muslims. It basically said that the Church teachings are a flat out lie, that Jesus got married, and that the Church is a vast conspiracy willing to kill in order to preserve their power and hide the truth. It basically tells a story that is one heresy after another.



Agreed, the reactions are VASTLY different. I doubt you got a chance but in my initial post I too agree that extremist Muslims need to be tempered, but it doesn't need to be at the expense of moderates. The divisiveness and hate of that group was not to exercise free speech on most people's behalf.



> The Pope and Church officials did plenty of complaining and protesting. However did not issue commands to believers to kill Dan Brown nor did Catholics say that Dan Brown deserves to be hunted down and hurt like many Muslims in this thread are saying right now. Instead they talked it out and gave their opinions in a civilized manner. People are still able to sell and write books insinuating how Opus Dei and the Church have this vast conspiracy. Thats not the case here, where people who do something similar with Muslims literally have to fear for their lives, and the layman Muslim thinks that seems to be perfectly alright. Its not.



Again, agreed, but Dan Brown's novel was an assault on the Church, not the Son of God. The passion of the Christ spawned a bit more controversy at its time for depicting the Jews as bad as well, so there have been protests on other sides as well. However, if you take alook, there were many moderate muslims attempting to debate, and to the credit of a few people on that group, they dignified them with open debate, but the vast majority was just ludicrous. 



> However, the line stops at physical threats and violence. That attitude is unacceptable in the West, and if they choose to live here and enjoy those freedoms and liberties then they must abide to the social contract that applies to everyone.



This is vital, and I think it needs to be applicable on BOTH sides. That's what I want to stress, all Muslims (in fact most) are not extremist and DO adapt to living in the west, but there will always be extremists to threaten our national security and alienating the moderates is a proven way to create more instability. At the same time, just because these extremists threaten us, we can't go crazy and give into our groupthink mentality with the whole, "Islam bad, Muslim bad, kill muslim" ideology.

I am in no way against anyone exercising free speech, and never once have i told people to stop. To me it's fucking stupid, divisive, hateful, and hypocritical on most people's part, but it's still within your right to do so, but hate speech and inciting violence is NOT legal, and its fucking reprehensible, at best.


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

> draw Jesus sucking dick


I like it how people go straight at Jesus. Like atheists not having been drawing too.
Also, saying "Jesus sucking dick" is retarded. Drawing Mohammed standing there is not like drawing another holy prophet giving blow jobs, it's like having another prophet standing there only with followers who also have sticks up their asses.


----------



## Petenshi (May 20, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> I like it how people go straight at Jesus. Like atheists not having been drawing too.
> Also, saying "Jesus sucking dick" is retarded. Drawing Mohammed standing there is not like drawing another holy prophet giving blow jobs, it's like having another prophet standing there only with followers who also have sticks up their asses.



It doesn't matter. The fact is when you do something specifically people because people don't like it there are problems. It isn't about drawings its about what people find offensive. And you don't get to decide what that is.

If I found something you hated, and constantly did it around you, you could easily pin me for harassment charges.


----------



## Ennoea (May 20, 2010)

> draw Jesus sucking dick


Not that Jesus was gay or anything but to you sucking dick is the most derogatory thing a person can do? I hope you're girlfriend never sucks yours you bastard.


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> It doesn't matter. The fact is when you do something specifically people because people don't like it there are problems. It isn't about drawings its about what people find offensive. And you don't get to decide what that is.
> 
> If I found something you hated, and constantly did it around you, you could easily pin me for harassment charges.





No I couldn't. That why the Westboro Baptist Church gets to go around town picketing dead soldiers funerals with "God Hates America, God Hates ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and God Hates Your Dead Son" signs.

As long as it's legal you get to do it.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Ennoea said:


> Not that Jesus was gay or anything but t you sucking dick is the most derogatory thing a man can do? I hope you're girlfriend never sucks yours you bastard.



there's arguments for gay jesus, but u know what, i'm totally not interested in the harrassment i'll receive if was to go there.


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

Elton Jhon went around talking about Gay Jesus. But I guess Muslims get a free pass because no one wants to get stabbed.

I do believe that was 2012's excuse to not show any muslim holy places getting destroyed. in his words "I thought about it, but I very much like to remain in my non stabbed condition thank you very much"


----------



## Sylar (May 20, 2010)

Hurf hurf if drawing religious figures isn't so bad then draw Jesus giving a blowjob. Because that's exactly the same thing as simply drawing Mohammed at all.

Really guys? REALLY????


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## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

I negged. No use hitting Rapturous if I'm not gonna use it.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Elton Jhon went around talking about Gay Jesus. But I guess Muslims get a free pass because no one wants to get stabbed.
> 
> I do believe that was 2012's excuse to not show any muslim holy places getting destroyed. in his words "I thought about it, but I very much like to remain in my non stabbed condition thank you very much"



i'm sure there was people that wanted to stab him, but since US has rule of law and religion and law or seperate, they would just get caught and imprisoned.  Rule of law: works wonders for keeping order!


----------



## Petenshi (May 20, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> No I couldn't. That why the Westboro Baptist Church gets to go around town picketing dead soldiers funerals with "God Hates America, God Hates ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and God Hates Your Dead Son" signs.
> 
> As long as it's legal you get to do it.



Wrong, thats why originally one man went to court and won. Only when the WBC Bawwwed the court system did they upturn the decision.


----------



## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

And now they get to do it.  All around the world. That is hardly "easly pinned with harassment charges"

Also, this analogy requires me singling you out as a person and individual, not as a publisher of intellectual property, such as drawings into the public domain.


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## Ennoea (May 20, 2010)

So Jesus was fucking his disciples? Makes sense, gay men in one room, what do you expect? Its not like christianity was there to spread homophobia or anything.


----------



## Banhammer (May 20, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> i'm sure there was people that wanted to stab him, but since US has rule of law and religion and law or seperate, they would just get caught and imprisoned.  Rule of law: works wonders for keeping order!



sure, that one guy who stabbed first _ideally_ goes to jail.

Everyone else that was in line just moves on to the next one, and everyone keeps getting stabbed


----------



## Aokiji (May 20, 2010)

Sylar said:


> Hurf hurf if drawing religious figures isn't so bad then draw Jesus giving a blowjob. Because that's exactly the same thing as simply drawing Mohammed at all.
> 
> Really guys? REALLY????


 
Well, it's not like most of these "normal drawings" don't entail bombhead-Mohammad.

Also, Christians don't see depictions of their most important human as bad, while Muslims do.


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## Ennoea (May 20, 2010)

Real nice negging me you homophobic prick. Tell you're girlfriend you think she trash because she gives you oral.


----------



## Aokiji (May 20, 2010)

Ennoea said:


> Real nice negging me you homophobic prick. Tell you're girlfriend you think she trash because she gives you oral.



You're everything that is wrong with the political left.

Why are we forced to accept certain sexual practices we don't actually don't want to accept? It's not like chubby chasers or BDSM enthusiasts ostracize people for thinking negatively about what they do. People who hire hookers don't go around insulting more conservative or sexually exclusive people for looking down on them.

In a way, you are 10 times the intolerant prick I am supposed to be, since you act butthurt because people don't share your favorable views on man-on-man fellatio. I am actually ok with people being ok with it. You are not ok with people not being ok with it. Ergo, you're a dongcart. With bad spelling to boot.


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## Ennoea (May 20, 2010)

> With bad spelling to boot.



Now that was uncalled for



> In a way, you are 10 times the intolerant prick I am supposed to be, since you act butthurt because people don't share your favorable views on man-on-man fellatio.



Someone implied that the most derogatory a man can do is oral, its frankly pathetic and hypocritical. Don't share my views, I really don't care.


----------



## Aokiji (May 20, 2010)

Ennoea said:


> Someone implied that the most derogatory a man can do is oral, its frankly pathetic and hypocritical. Don't share my views, I really don't care.



I don't really see why it would be hypocritical. And I doubt that you don't care or you wouldn't have called me a homophobic prick. 

And it's not necessarily that he meant that it's the most derogatory thing a man could do. Sucking dick is a common way to insult people. ("this sucks monkey balls") He just named a fairly unimaginative, common way people might choose to insult Jesus. (and if you read Encyclopedia Dramatica, you'd know that this is true)

I really think that you are an overzealous advocate of social acceptance of homosexuality and interpreted this as an attack to your agenda.


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## Eboue (May 20, 2010)

fuck you, homophobic prick.


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## Ennoea (May 20, 2010)

> I really think that you are an overzealous advocate of social acceptance of homosexuality and interpreted this as an attack to your agenda.



You caught me, I've been spreading the gay agenda throughout NF. I guess I was wrong, I should start advocating something backward, violent, corrupt and sexist, got any ideas?


> Why are we forced to accept certain sexual practices we don't actually don't want to accept?



Oh my, you actually believe that don't you? We? Whom do you speak for exactly? As I was saying, hypocrites.

Anyway I feel as if I derailed this thread with my comment, we should go back to the topic at hand.


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## Aokiji (May 20, 2010)

Eboue said:


> fuck you, homophobic prick.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



Ennoea said:


> You caught me, I've been spreading the gay agenda throughout NF. I guess I was wrong, I should start advocating something backward, violent, corrupt and sexist, got any ideas?


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## hcheng02 (May 20, 2010)

hyakku said:


> I think I should make myself clear, I'm not in support of them not drawing mohammed. Whether you do or not, thats up to you, I'm going to abstain. I have a specific problem (and I should be more clear in the future) with the depictions of equal extremism as those who would, lets say for example, draw Jesus sucking dick (which I've seen multiple times in that thread today).



I've seen plenty of depictions that would be considered as offensive as Jesus sucking dick to fundamentalist Christians. Just look up Jesus and South Park, or Jesus and Family Guy. You have depictions of Jesus killing people, Jesus faking miracles, God being some animal hybrid thing, God being a Buddhist, etc. If Christians have to learn to suck up to it, then so should Muslims. 


> Agreed, the reactions are VASTLY different. I doubt you got a chance but in my initial post I too agree that extremist Muslims need to be tempered, but it doesn't need to be at the expense of moderates. The divisiveness and hate of that group was not to exercise free speech on most people's behalf.



It doesn't matter. Some of them were trying to exercise free speech. Furthermore, if society standing up to extremists alienates the moderates, then the problem lies with the moderates and not the society. The US did not shy away with calling Christian fundamentalists who bomb abortion clinics or threaten to kill doctors to be criminals because it might alienate Christians. We arrested and jailed them and the mainstream Christian society caught on that violence and threats would not be tolerated. 



> Again, agreed, but Dan Brown's novel was an assault on the Church, not the Son of God. The passion of the Christ spawned a bit more controversy at its time for depicting the Jews as bad as well, so there have been protests on other sides as well. However, if you take alook, there were many moderate muslims attempting to debate, and to the credit of a few people on that group, they dignified them with open debate, but the vast majority was just ludicrous.



Does it matter if the Da Vinci Code was an assault on just the Catholic Church? Its doesn't change the fact that the Church didn't act on some Middle Age mentality and kill people for heresy. Its the 21st century and they have to play by today's rules. Same with Muslims. If one religion gets special allowances to be able to use violence to coerce others, then other religious groups will clamor for the same. Then its back to Medieval times. 

Furthermore, Dan Brown's novel was an assault on many parts of fundamentalist Christian beliefs. Jesus marrying and having children, and the idea that we should worship some female divine figure (Virgin Mary is technically not worshiped by Catholics and Protestant sects consider it outright idolatry) is pretty heretical. 

Also, notice that the Jews did not threaten violence on Mel Gibson or those who made Passion of the Christ. Sure they protested, but it stayed with words. Keep in mind that the Jews were on a little more solid ground when they claim that it the movie might be construed as hate speech, since "Jews killed Jesus" has a much longer history of inciting hate crimes than drawing pictures of Muhammad. No the Jews stuck with debate and their opinions were heard. Keep in mind that Passion of the Christ still proceeded to be a blockbuster. 



> This is vital, and I think it needs to be applicable on BOTH sides. That's what I want to stress, all Muslims (in fact most) are not extremist and DO adapt to living in the west, but there will always be extremists to threaten our national security and alienating the moderates is a proven way to create more instability. At the same time, just because these extremists threaten us, we can't go crazy and give into our groupthink mentality with the whole, "Islam bad, Muslim bad, kill muslim" ideology.
> 
> I am in no way against anyone exercising free speech, and never once have i told people to stop. To me it's fucking stupid, divisive, hateful, and hypocritical on most people's part, but it's still within your right to do so, but hate speech and inciting violence is NOT legal, and its fucking reprehensible, at best.



I don't see anyone here advocating we should kill Muslims. The only ones advocating and condoning violence are Muslims and the occasional liberal thinks cowardice is a virtue. A teacher who is a stern disciplinarian might not be well liked by his students, but he will be respected and ultimately the teacher will be acting in the students best interests by instilling proper respect for social values.


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## Koi (May 20, 2010)

Wow, I feel like this thread just went full retard in the last few pages.


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## Aokiji (May 20, 2010)

Nice that you don't mention any names. 

EDIT: Also, really? Could this thread get any worse?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

Dude someone is getting banned. Y'all need to calm down.

And I still can't find a dragon picture to make my Bahamut Mohammad picture.


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## Petenshi (May 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> *Dude someone is getting banned. Y'all need to calm down.
> *



Seriously . 

Oh Dear, we agreed in the Mohammed Thread. This must mean something bad is comming .


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## Enigma (May 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Dude someone is getting banned. Y'all need to calm down.
> 
> And I still can't find a dragon picture to make my Bahamut Mohammad picture.



Here's a Bahamut.


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## Adonis (May 20, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> lol, ur claiming victory? ur more censored than ever! by "your own"! hahah
> 
> the effect for u was negative.



The fact you're oblivious to how said censorship (which I haven't noticed, mind you) supports the need for free speech to be supported AND are siding with said censorers in thoughtless vindictiveness is simply astounding.

I'm not even going to ask how this thread got so retarded in the last hour.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

Enigma said:


> Here's a Bahamut.



I need him screaming or something, so I can put his head on some Muslim guy's body.


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## Mist Puppet (May 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I need him screaming or something, so I can put his head on some Muslim guy's body.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Adonis said:


> The fact you're oblivious to how said censorship (which I haven't noticed, mind you) supports the need for free speech to be supported AND are siding with said censorers in thoughtless vindictiveness is simply astounding.
> 
> I'm not even going to ask how this thread got so retarded in the last hour.



ummm, lets see, u entered the thread, and it got retarded. ur like the black eyed peas.

i don't believe in ur intentions.  your trolling, which is one of the few ways i can think of abusing free speech.  sadly, i chalk this up in the category "this is why we can't have nice things"


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## Megaharrison (May 20, 2010)

My only contribution to this crazy thread: the IDF has been sending around notices saying any and all drawings of Mohammad by personnel will be met with punishment. Now this is ironic


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Megaharrison said:


> My only contribution to this crazy thread: the IDF has been sending around notices saying any and all drawings of Mohammad by personnel will be met with punishment. Now this is ironic



i'm gonna give the IDF a hand on this one 

trolling people to exercise free speech


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## Purgatory (May 20, 2010)

Megaharrison said:


> My only contribution to this crazy thread: the IDF has been sending around notices saying any and all drawings of Mohammad by personnel will be met with punishment. Now this is ironic



Oh shit, NF's gonna be bombes  with retarded pictures of Jesus assfucking Santa


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## Shasta McNasty (May 20, 2010)

Facebook gives in to anti-free speech Muslim zealots and deletes the Draw Mohammed Page.  Islam seems to go hand in hand with intimidation.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2010)

Shasta McNasty said:


> Facebook gives in to anti-free speech Muslim zealots and deletes the Draw Mohammed Page.  Islam seems to go hand in hand with intimidation.


Yeah I figured it would happen, now people will just go troll them on other pages.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 20, 2010)

Shasta McNasty said:


> Facebook gives in to anti-free speech Muslim zealots and deletes the Draw Mohammed Page.  Islam seems to go hand in hand with intimidation.





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Yeah I figured it would happen, now people will just go troll them on other pages.



says the losers.

Srsly, i asked what was the plan after this grand failure?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 21, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> says the losers.
> 
> Srsly, i asked what was the plan after this grand failure?



Why are you still posting here, you've already pretty much been made to look wrong by other members on the subject. Do you think we take what you're saying seriously?


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 21, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Why are you still posting here, you've already pretty much been made to look wrong by other members on the subject. Do you think we take what you're saying seriously?



all that aside, any answers?


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 21, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> all that aside, any answers?


The page got deleted, the bawwing muslims still suck, and u make yourself look like an idiot every time u post in this thread. 

So pretty much doesnt matter, nothing changed, all ends are still the same. The page getting deleted was seen coming by a lot of people. The only thing that changed was u, now we see u as more of an idiot than before  

The muslims will keep bawwing, and we will keep ridiculing them until one day they learn that maybe blowing shit up or killing people isnt the right way to retort for something so silly.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 21, 2010)

I found out that there is an anti-Pope page, and a page that supports a movement against the Catholic Church in general, and many engage in parodies and mocking just like the "Draw Mohammed" page did. Both still up. So what does this tell you guys?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 21, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I found out that there is an anti-Pope page, and a page that supports a movement against the Catholic Church, and many engage in parodies and mocking just like the "Draw Mohammed" page did. So what does this tell you guys?


It's okay to mock anyone but Muslims. I want to go start like fifteen draw mohammad groups now.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 21, 2010)

Mexican God said:


> The page got deleted, the bawwing muslims still suck, and u make yourself look like an idiot every time u post in this thread.
> 
> So pretty much doesnt matter, nothing changed, all ends are still the same. The page getting deleted was seen coming by a lot of people. The only thing that changed was u, now we see u as more of an idiot than before
> 
> The muslims will keep bawwing, and we will keep ridiculing them until one day they learn that maybe blowing shit up or killing people isnt the right way to retort for something so silly.



u should go into the mosque (or at least outside one) with your drawings, record what happens.  now that would be free speech!

i'm just trying to give u suggestions.  DOn't bitch and moan at me cause you idiots are getting censored at every turn.


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 21, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> u should go into the mosque (or at least outside one) with your drawings, record what happens.  now that would be free speech!
> 
> i'm just trying to give u suggestions.  DOn't bitch and moan at me cause you idiots are getting censored at every turn.



Whoa hey your the one bitching and moaning. Maybe if those mussies werent such babies, they wouldnt get such a bad rep.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 21, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's okay to mock anyone but Muslims. I want to go start like fifteen draw mohammad groups now.



ur getting close to  making ur point, keep it up.  I almost feel like..like i get it, u know?



Mexican God said:


> Whoa hey your the one bitching and moaning. Maybe if those mussies werent such babies, they wouldnt get such a bad rep.



i'm encouraging u , it's sad to see someone pour their heart and soul into something, especially art, only to fail soooo hard.  Especially as i love free speech so much.  i'm excercising my free speech now


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## Koi (May 21, 2010)

narusimp are you.. white knighting for Muslim extremists?


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (May 21, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> i'm encouraging u , it's sad to see someone pour the heart and soul into something, especially art, only to fail soooo hard.  Especially as i love free speech so much.  i'm excercising my free speech now


There's no heart or soul in "humor art" only lulz .


Koi said:


> narusimp are you.. white knighting for Muslim extremists?


Yes he is. He hates the sweet air of freedom.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 21, 2010)

am i not being clear enough for you, what don't u understand?


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## Koi (May 21, 2010)

Naru you are totally being clear-- you love terror and hate freedom.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 21, 2010)

Koi said:


> Naru you are totally being clear-- you love terror and hate freedom.



bc of not drawing mohammed?  as long as i keep posting in this thread, i'll keep having laughs, so it's worth it for me.


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## Hand Banana (May 21, 2010)

I still don't understand why anyone would want to draw his ugly ass in the first place.


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## MF NaruSimpson (May 21, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> I still don't understand why anyone would want to draw his ugly ass in the first place.



cause when muslims come to my house, and tell me i can't draw mohammed, well, homey don't play that!


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## Chee (May 21, 2010)

Wait? The Everybody Draw Mohammed Day facebook page was taken down? I still see it.


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## hyakku (May 21, 2010)

> I've seen plenty of depictions that would be considered as offensive as Jesus sucking dick to fundamentalist Christians. Just look up Jesus and South Park, or Jesus and Family Guy. You have depictions of Jesus killing people, Jesus faking miracles, God being some animal hybrid thing, God being a Buddhist, etc. If Christians have to learn to suck up to it, then so should Muslims.



Well, that's the thing though, I'm not here SUPPORTING hate speech against Christianity either. I personally think both religions are pretty nonsensical in terms of their supernatural stuff, but I don't understand why supporting having respect for a fellow citizen's desire (especially when it comes to fellow Americans) for peace means that I automatically DON'T support his opposition deserving those same freedoms, but I'm not gonna fight for Christians when they don't even fight for themselves, hell, half the jokes come from self claimed Christians.

  I mean this is just an impasse we'll never be able to pass, but as I said, I've never told anyone to stop, merely expressed my belief that it accomplished nothing other then disseminating hate and inciting violence, which, as far as I can tell, is exactly what occurred.

I also meant to quickly address what you asked before when you said what other measures. Well, a perfect example using Facebook as a social media tool would be to find undergrads/grad students from Islamic and Western Societies to discuss relevant issues that they share or divide them (economic hardship, schoolwork difficulties, etc.) In a sense think of how intelligence agencies have fusion centers, but here one could go to actually talk to someone from Afghanistan or Pakistan or Malawi or wherever to get a direct sense of the landscape for whatever purpose they may need it for.

It should be about improving relations, I don' really care about the rest of the world, but here in America we've been able to do that again and again. It's for these reasons that as a black American I can go to school in Southern California, thousands of miles away from home, when my grandparents couldn't dream of leaving their town. It took CONCERTED efforts , and sometimes it was rocky, but equality has been gained for many minorities here in America, and the trend should continue in my opinion, as long as they are willing to adapt, and by and large Muslims in America HAVE adapted. They aren't the ones sending planes into our buildings (homegrown radical extremism from right wing groups and eco terrorists are more numerous than homegrown terrorist attacks in the past decade IIRC), outsiders are. I just think, at least in this country, that we should seek to be Americans first, and "whatever the fuck else you want to be as long as you don't fuck with me" second.

That's just one example I tossed around in my head that facebook couldve been used better than people post crazy pictures up there.



> It doesn't matter. Some of them were trying to exercise free speech. Furthermore, if society standing up to extremists alienates the moderates, then the problem lies with the moderates and not the society. The US did not shy away with calling Christian fundamentalists who bomb abortion clinics or threaten to kill doctors to be criminals because it might alienate Christians. We arrested and jailed them and the mainstream Christian society caught on that violence and threats would not be tolerated.



And we arrest and jail extremist Islamic people. You won't see me not advocating for terrorists to be punished and threats and violence not to be tolerated. You also won't see me advocating people intentionally provoking people, just because they can. 

Society standing up to the extremists are not what alienates the moderates, in fact, moderates are one of the most crucial tools in eliminating extremism. But I don't know if you've SEEN that page, but there are MANY pictures up there that are just not something that, if you took so seriously you bet your soul foor, you couldn't comment on. 

Those comments combined with the many threats and cursing off, etc. from both sides seem to support my idea that they only succeeded in alienating more people.



> Does it matter if the Da Vinci Code was an assault on just the Catholic Church? Its doesn't change the fact that the Church didn't act on some Middle Age mentality and kill people for heresy. Its the 21st century and they have to play by today's rules. Same with Muslims. If one religion gets special allowances to be able to use violence to coerce others, then other religious groups will clamor for the same. Then its back to Medieval times.



Neither did the Islamic Church! I don't understand how that point is not equally applicable, just as those fundamentalist right wing christians believed using WMD's would prevent the mark of the beast in the EU and spawn the second coming of Christ were denounced by normal Christians, so too were the 9/11 terrorists in the minority of the Muslim world. 



> I don't see anyone here advocating we should kill Muslims. The only ones advocating and condoning violence are Muslims and the occasional liberal thinks cowardice is a virtue. A teacher who is a stern disciplinarian might not be well liked by his students, but he will be respected and ultimately the teacher will be acting in the students best interests by instilling proper respect for social values.



Well, there are examples in this thread (i believe only one or two, probably deleted by now), and if you head over to their group there were quite a few. Like I said, I don't understand why people think because I don't support defamation instead of caricature for Islam, that I expect Christians to just "suck it up."

I'm actually more baffled as to why Christians don't act with more fervor most of the time, I've read the book of Revelation a couple of times, and if they are right they sure as hell don't act like they care as a collective. Again though, the absence of Christian faith doesn't mean that we must DISRESPECT Islamic faith, especially because these violent acts are carried out by minute parts of their population.

The other responses  from the rest of you posters were too simple minded to bother answering, sorry.


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## Banhammer (Jan 7, 2015)

bump for relevance


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## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2015)

Really don't see the point in drawing Muhammad just to piss off Muslims. It's unhelpful.


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## x5exotic (Jan 7, 2015)

Maybe we should worry more about trying to find a cure cancer, or make wheelchair-bound people walk again, but no let's just try to be something only South Park can pull off.


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## Banhammer (Jan 7, 2015)

It's glorious


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## Pilaf (Jan 7, 2015)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Really don't see the point in drawing Muhammad just to piss off Muslims. It's unhelpful.



It's not to piss off Muslims. It's because we still can. Keep bending over to appease intolerant, backwards people and in 100 years that may not be the case.


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## stream (Jan 7, 2015)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Really don't see the point in drawing Muhammad just to piss off Muslims. It's unhelpful.


It is indeed quite a passive-aggressive reaction. But to quote a sentence I like:

"Freedom of speech is only eroded when you don't exercise it."

     O
   /|\     <----- Muhammad
   / \


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## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2015)

Making things worse just because the alternative is letting them make things worse doesn't seem like a sound strategy.


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## Zhariel (Jan 7, 2015)

x5exotic said:


> Maybe we should worry more about trying to find a cure cancer, or make wheelchair-bound people walk again, but no let's just try to be something only South Park can pull off.



I doubt scientists are gonna go "BOSS! I'm taking the week off to draw Muhammed."


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## stream (Jan 7, 2015)

Well, suppose you are a black lady in a southern state in the sixties, and a bus driver tells you you aren't allowed to sit down in his bus. Are you going to go stand at the back? Or are you going to sit down, just to make a statement that it is your right to sit down?

Sometimes it is a good thing to do something useless, just to state that it is your right to do it, and that no one can tell you otherwise.


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## Deleted member 23 (Jan 7, 2015)

Pilaf said:


> It's not to piss off Muslims. It's because we still can. Keep bending over to appease intolerant, backwards people and in 100 years that may not be the case.



No, the very act of doing it will piss off Muslims. I understand that doing it for fun is good but going it just because Muslims say we can't means we're doing it to piss them off.


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## WT (Jan 7, 2015)

In before lock


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## Al Mudaari (Jan 7, 2015)

This idea is hilarious, people in their cosy locked rooms drawing pictures in the disguise of "freedom of speech" whilst trying to get a reaction. Unfortunately, they don't ever get it despite the many times this day has passed . Muslims just haven't given a crap due to its insignificance.  

You want a reaction, you need to make it really global where it's shoved down people's throats, like those cartoons or that movie. But none of you desperate attention-seekers on here who do "draw Mohammad" will ever achieve that.


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## Mael (Jan 7, 2015)

Al Mudaari said:


> Muslims just haven't given a crap due to its insignificance.



Right, because that's why Herbo was firebombed back in 2011, because Muslims don't' give a crap, or how some Muslim immigrant tried to sneak into Wilks's home when he was taking care of his grandson to kill him, because they don't give a crap.

Wow you're dumb.


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## Pilaf (Jan 8, 2015)

Al Mudaari said:


> This idea is hilarious, people in their cosy locked rooms drawing pictures in the disguise of "freedom of speech" whilst trying to get a reaction. Unfortunately, they don't ever get it despite the many times this day has passed . Muslims just haven't given a crap due to its insignificance.
> 
> You want a reaction, you need to make it really global where it's shoved down people's throats, like those cartoons or that movie. But none of you desperate attention-seekers on here who do "draw Mohammad" will ever achieve that.



I like the way you failed to react, there.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 8, 2015)

1.) Everybody draw Mohammad

2.) No Necroing


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