# MS Obito vs EMS Sasuke



## ARGUS (Apr 22, 2014)

*MS Obito vs EMS Sasuke*

*In the recent ranking based threads,, i was surprised to see several ppl state the sasuke surpassed obito after gaining EMS,,, while portrayal may favor sasuke,, however if we go by feats,, i dont see sasuke beating even MS Obito at all, 
so i wna hear ur arguments regarding how this Sasuke beats Obito,, bcz i personally dont see sasuke even landing a hit on Obito
-Obito doesnt have the other eye ofc,, bcz that will be a stomp*

Starting Distance: 50m
Location: Destroyed Konoha
Intel: Manga
Mindset: IC
Intent: To Kill
Restrictions: Rinnegan for Obito, Rikudo power up for Sasuke, Kyuubi

Who Wins?


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## Trojan (Apr 22, 2014)

Perhaps because a lot of people think raw power is everything, who has more raw power and bigger jusus = stronger. Anyway, Obito wins, he can go through all of Sasuke's jutsus, and all he has to do is one touch and that's it.


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## IchLiebe (Apr 22, 2014)

Yea Obito wins.

Does Obito have another sharingan in his other eye?

Either way, Obito will eventually catch Sasuke with something.

Also Obito does have mokuton so....Obito 10/10 ease.


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## Bkprince33 (Apr 22, 2014)

Portrayal wise i believe sasuke has surpassed ms obito, but feat wise its ruff because sasuke still hasn't gotten a good amount of screen time with his ms.




feat wise not to many ppl can beat obito honestly so its good to use a mix of both


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## Bonly (Apr 22, 2014)

Sasuke would prolly win after a good battle, no clue how but he'd likely do it.


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## ARGUS (Apr 22, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Yea Obito wins.
> 
> Does Obito have another sharingan in his other eye?
> 
> ...



Ahh definitely no,, Obito only has 1 eye,,, 
otherwise he would be too powerful


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## Krippy (Apr 22, 2014)

Sasuke should know Obito needs to touch him to warp him, so he just waits till he tries to grab him then he just flash activates a Susano'o hand and shanks him with an Enton blade. If he uses Izanagi then Sasuke just outlasts it and repeats the process.

Minato activated Hiraishin during this process, and Susano'o activation has a similar activation so it should work.


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## Cognitios (Apr 22, 2014)

EMS takes it portrayal wise.
But MS Obito is just so damn hax. 
IMO if Obito can summon Kyuubi and does then he definitely loses, Sasuke would win in a fight for Kyuubi IMO.
But feat wise, Sasuke has nothing that can touch Obito, and Obito has nothing that can touch PS Sasuke. 
Giving it to Sasuke just because I think that he could do it with time, and his portrayal is pretty damn good.


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## ARGUS (Apr 23, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> EMS takes it portrayal wise.
> But MS Obito is just so damn hax.
> IMO if Obito can summon Kyuubi and does then he definitely loses, Sasuke would win in a fight for Kyuubi IMO.
> But feat wise, Sasuke has nothing that can touch Obito, and Obito has nothing that can touch PS Sasuke.
> Giving it to Sasuke just because I think that he could do it with time, and his portrayal is pretty damn good.


Using something like susanoo against Obito is rather futile,,, its completely uselesss,, since obito can jus phase through it and kamui warp sasuke in the middle of it,,,
-Sasuke is not attacking obito during that time,, since he lacks the jutsu of FTG level speed that will help him counter attack obitoo,,,


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## Trojan (Apr 23, 2014)

What portray makes Sasuke superior exactly? 

Obito was dealing with BM Naruto, B, Guy, and Kakashi with his MS basically. 
yeah, he had the Rinnegan, that great and all, but he did not use anything of its jutsus.


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## richard lewis (Apr 23, 2014)

Obito has to turn solid in order to land an attack on sasuke, and given that sasuke was able to track juubito with his EMS he should be able to track regular obito no problem, so a surprise warp is out of the question. Sasuke can tag obito with enton or use chidori nagashi as soon as he turns solid to attack so it's really going to depend on who can execute their jutsu quicker. I'm leaning towards sasuke simply b/c his jutsu execution speed should be faster due to superior sharingan precog and the boost he gets from EMS.


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## StickaStick (Apr 23, 2014)

EMS Sasuke has nothing to bypass Kamui phasing here. Obito can pressure Sasuke with truck-sized kunai, top-tier katons, and Mokuton and hope he slips up creating an opening for a warp. If Sasuke wants to sit in his Susanoo Obito will just wait him out while Sasuke exhausts himself.


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## richard lewis (Apr 23, 2014)

New Folder said:


> What portray makes Sasuke superior exactly?
> 
> Obito was dealing with BM Naruto, B, Guy, and Kakashi with his MS basically.
> yeah, he had the Rinnegan, that great and all, but he did not use anything of its jutsus.



Obito didn't harm any of them, he was basically just stalling. once kakashi figured out that their eyes where linked obito was pretty much screwed, he even stated that kakashi held back and could have mortally wounded or killed him here states with a raikiri to the face instead of a punch or here states with a raikiri to the gut. "I don't feel like searching for the chapter where obito stated it but feel free to look it up if you dont believe me".


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## richard lewis (Apr 23, 2014)

The Format said:


> EMS Sasuke has nothing to bypass Kamui phasing here. Obito can pressure Sasuke with truck-sized kunai, top-tier katons, and Mokuton and hope he slips up creating an opening for a warp. If Sasuke wants to sit in his Susanoo Obito will just wait him out while Sasuke exhausts himself.



Sasuke has no reason to use susanoo here, he can fight obito just fine in base and wait to tag him with amaterasu he might maybe use the ribecage version but obito doesn't have much DC so anything more than that is just unnecessary.


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## Mercurial (Apr 23, 2014)

I don't see what put EMS Sasuke above War Arc Obito (pre jinchuriki) or War Arc Kakashi. He has an astonishing fire power and a wonderful defense, for sure, but is basically useless when Kakashi can insta-warp his ass away or when he can't tag Obito at all.


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## ARGUS (Apr 23, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> Obito has to turn solid in order to land an attack on sasuke, and given that sasuke was able to track juubito with his EMS he should be able to track regular obito no problem, so a surprise warp is out of the question. Sasuke can tag obito with enton or use chidori nagashi as soon as he turns solid to attack so it's really going to depend on who can execute their jutsu quicker. I'm leaning towards sasuke simply b/c his jutsu execution speed should be faster due to superior sharingan precog and the boost he gets from EMS.


-Tracking and reacting are 2 completely different things,,, sasuke wwas able  to track Juubito,, however he was struggling to keep up,,, and wouldve gotten blitzed if he wasnt backed up by Naruto and 2 FTG users,,,

-Enton or chidori variants are easily phased through by Obito,, and the kamui warp is faster than all of sasukes attacks seeing that Minato barely managed to evade the warp through FTG,,,the whole turns solid argument is not in sasukes favour at all,,, 

-Obito has sharingan precog as well,, if not its likely thhat his pre cog is better than sasukes seeing that he was keeping up with  4 top/high tiers,,,Sasukes jutsu execution speed is slower  than obitos


richard lewis said:


> Sasuke has no reason to use susanoo here, he can fight obito just fine in base and wait to tag him with amaterasu he might maybe use the ribecage version but obito doesn't have much DC so anything more than that is just unnecessary.



Again,, tagging with amaterasu is not happening,,, since kamui phasing and intangibility is faster than it,,, furthermore even if obito gets hit,, he countered it canonically in the manga,,, so the jutsu is futile,,, 

-Obito phases through susanoo and since susanoo decreases the users mobility,,, i can see sasuke being able to do nothing at all,, and simply get warped since obitos jutsu are faster than all of sasukes


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## richard lewis (Apr 23, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> -Tracking and reacting are 2 completely different things,,, sasuke wwas able  to track Juubito,, however he was struggling to keep up,,, and wouldve gotten blitzed if he wasnt backed up by Naruto and 2 FTG users,,,




Eh... I'd disagree, the only time I can recall anyone having to save sasuke is when obito used BT to draw him in. Outside of that sasuke was never caught off guard by obito's actual movement speed. Regular MS obito is much slower so tracking should be even easier.



Kifflom!! said:


> -Enton or chidori variants are easily phased through by Obito,, and the kamui warp is faster than all of sasukes attacks seeing that Minato barely managed to evade the warp through FTG,,,the whole turns solid argument is not in sasukes favour at all,,,



he didn't phase out of amaterasu here [2]. Although I suppose he could probably teleport away the flames with only minimal damage. However if obito has to phase/warp the flames then he can't attack sasuke which is why I said it's going to revolve around speed. If sasuke can land the first blow he can win.



Kifflom!! said:


> -Obito has sharingan precog as well,, if not its likely thhat his pre cog is better than sasukes seeing that he was keeping up with  4 top/high tiers,,,Sasukes jutsu execution speed is slower  than obitos



I think madara stated somewhere that the EMS grants a greater level of perception "I don't feel like searching for the scan", I could be wrong though.



Kifflom!! said:


> Again,, tagging with amaterasu is not happening,,, since kamui phasing and intangibility is faster than it,,, furthermore even if obito gets hit,, he countered it canonically in the manga,,, so the jutsu is futile,,,




How do you figure kamui is faster than amaterasu? what are you basing that on? They both appear to be about the speed to me, it really just depends on the user and how fast they can activate the jutsu.



Kifflom!! said:


> -Obito phases through susanoo and since susanoo decreases the users mobility,,, i can see sasuke being able to do nothing at all,, and simply get warped since obitos jutsu are faster than all of sasukes



Like I said sasuke has no real need for using susanoo accept to block obito's massive katons or his giant shuriken.


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## BroKage (Apr 23, 2014)

Sasuke Amaterasu spams Obito, Obito uses Izanagi to survive and Kamuis Sasuke from behind.


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## ARGUS (Apr 23, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> Eh... I'd disagree, the only time I can recall anyone having to save sasuke is when obito used BT to draw him in. Outside of that sasuke was never caught off guard by obito's actual movement speed. Regular MS obito is much slower so tracking should be even easier.


-Regular MS Obito is slower in foot speed but if we take Kamui into account,,, the speed doesnt vary that much,, since speed wise Kamui can compete with FTG,, something thats instant,,,, 
-When did Obito really use BT,,, i have never seen obito use any rinnegan based techniques other than the outer path


> he didn't phase out of amaterasu here [2]. Although I suppose he could probably teleport away the flames with only minimal damage. *However if obito has to phase/warp the flames then he can't attack sasuke which is why I said it's going to revolve around speed. If sasuke can land the first blow he can win*.


-Obito was caught off guard there,, since he clearly didnt expect sasuke to have such jutsu,, and due to OBito not being a sensor he never expected the oncoming attack[
-He can phase through the flames easily,,,u have basically stated some of his counters to amaterasu already,, furthermore Obito can and will phase through the flames and like i said his kamui is faster than all of sasukes attacks


> I think madara stated somewhere that the EMS grants a greater level of perception "I don't feel like searching for the scan", I could be wrong though.


All that EMS grants is eternal light,,, as stated by Itachi himself,, the techniques of EMS dont really matter from MS,,,
u cud say its precog is better due to the fact that it doesnt put any strain on the eyes,,,


> How do you figure kamui is faster than amaterasu? what are you basing that on? They both appear to be about the speed to me, it really just depends on the user and how fast they can activate the jutsu.


-The fact that A comfortably dodged Amaterasu at point blank range through his foot speed,,,,without the former being a sensor or blocking its LOS,,, and the fact that Minato (BARELY) managed to evade the kamui warp from FTG,, is why Kamui is faster than Amaterasu,,,, 
-Its a manga fact that Minatos speed is faster than A's as it was obvious through their fight,,,

-A already admitted inferiority to Minatos speed,,,,,, Kamui warp is quicker than amaterasu and even if Sasuke does manage to land an amaterasu,, its absolutely futile siince during that time he will get warped and obito can counter it in a similar way as to how he did in canon


> Like I said sasuke has no real need for using susanoo accept to block obito's massive katons or his giant shuriken.


He doesnt have a need because his attacks in susnaoo are useless against obito,,,,
Obito will simply phase through his susnaoo and proceed to warp him,,,,,


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## Raiken (Apr 27, 2014)

Is see this being a pretty even battle, Sasuke's offensive and defensive arsenal can allow him to keep Obito at bay for a very long time.
However, to land a hit on Obito with his MS, (augmented by his Senju Body making it's usage virtually unlimited as long as his Chakra Lasts, and Obito > Sasuke in Chakra Capacity), you need Teamwork, or at least be able to use Bunshins for traps, trickery and feints.
Because he isn't tricking him with Genjutsu, since Obito's Sharingan will just resist it. And I think Obito can handle substitution Jutsu.
Obito can't defeat Sasuke through martial might, but eventually outlasts Sasuke's Chakra Capacity and defeats him.


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## Csdabest (Apr 27, 2014)

So obito doesn't know about Chidori Nagashi while Sasuke knows the mechanics of Obito's technique? Yeah. Obito Gets stunned VIA Chidori Nagashi when Sasuke nails Obito with it if he tries to touch him. Also MS Obito got hit by Amaterasu by a Sasuke who couldn't even control it despite him seeing and reacting to it before the flame hit him. MS Obito can't even evade nor does he have the reaction speed to even phase through Amaterasu as shown.


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## ARGUS (Apr 28, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> So obito doesn't know about Chidori Nagashi while Sasuke knows the mechanics of Obito's technique? Yeah. Obito Gets stunned VIA Chidori Nagashi when Sasuke nails Obito with it if he tries to touch him. Also MS Obito got hit by Amaterasu by a Sasuke who couldn't even control it despite him seeing and reacting to it before the flame hit him. MS Obito can't even evade nor does he have the reaction speed to even phase through Amaterasu as shown.


-Never in a million years is sasuke landing a hit on Obito through Chidori,when BM Naruto who is much much much faster than Sasuke,, failed to land a hit on Obito without Kakashis help,, who had Kamui itself,,,,,

-even if sasuke knows the mechanics of Kamui,, its still meaningless since he cant counter it any way whatsoever,,,,

-Like ive said a million times,, Obito got hit by amaterasu due to the attack  being a surprise as he clearly didnt  seee it coming,,, during a battle,, hes not getting hit,,moreover, he countered it  anyways,, so amaterasu is a non factor immediately, as Obito clearly recovered from it after getting hit,,,,,

-Obito was relying on reaction feats and kamui alone and went head on against BM naruto,, Kakashi Guy and Killer bee,,,  regardless of what the  intel or the situation of the battle was,,furthermore,,, Kamui phasing is actually instant,, as FTG barely managed to land a hit on Obito,, due to being slightly faster,,,, seeing that A efffortlessly dodgeed Amaterasu at point blank range,,, i think its clear that Kamui is  faster than Amatearsu,,,,,,

-Sasuke literally has no way of countering Obitos moveset at  all,,, he is losing this


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## SubtleObscurantist (Apr 28, 2014)

It's dubious that either of them could successfully tag each other, between Kamui phasing and Susano'o. But eventually Obito might allow himself to get tagged so he can use Izanagi and surprise Sasuke, who doesn't know he has it, and take him out then. Overall the two of them are very close to equals, however. But it just so happens that Obito knows Sasuke better than vice versa.


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## Kai (Apr 29, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> MS Obito can't even evade nor does he have the reaction speed to even phase through Amaterasu as shown.


Obviously he does, as Itachi had no choice but to use Sasuke as a proxy on an unsuspecting Obito when he (Itachi) had a more direct means to unleash the technique against him.

Obito also rid himself of Amaterasu, as shown.


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## ARGUS (Apr 29, 2014)

Kai said:


> Obviously he does, as Itachi had no choice but to use Sasuke as a proxy on an unsuspecting Obito when he (Itachi) had a more direct means to unleash the technique against him.
> 
> Obito also rid himself of Amaterasu, as shown.



That's what I have been sayin throughout this thread 
If we go by feats then sasuke simply is not winning this


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## Jagger (Apr 29, 2014)

Hussain said:


> What portray makes Sasuke superior exactly?
> 
> Obito was dealing with BM Naruto, B, Guy, and Kakashi with his MS basically.
> yeah, he had the Rinnegan, that great and all, but he did not use anything of its jutsus.



BM Naruto barely used any of his clones during his fight and his shunshin speed was actually unseen there.

Gai didn't even open the gates in the first place, he was fighting in base, IIRC. 

Bee barely contributed to the fight only until the end with his Bijuudama and stopping giant shuriken. 

Kakashi was using Kamui mostly in a defensive way.

Sure, it was impressive and everything the way he was handling 4-Kage level shinobi, but let's not act as if he's completely unbeatable.


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## richard lewis (Apr 29, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> -Regular MS Obito is slower in foot speed but if we take Kamui into account,,, the speed doesnt vary that much,, since speed wise Kamui can compete with FTG,, something thats instant,,,,
> -When did Obito really use BT,,, i have never seen obito use any rinnegan based techniques other than the outer path]



he sucked them in here [1]


Kifflom!! said:


> -Obito was caught off guard there,, since he clearly didnt expect sasuke to have such jutsu,, and due to OBito not being a sensor he never expected the oncoming attack[
> -He can phase through the flames easily,,,u have basically stated some of his counters to amaterasu already,, furthermore Obito can and will phase through the flames and like i said his kamui is faster than all of sasukes attacks]



He still has to turn solid to attacks sasuke and as soon as he does he eats a chidori nagashi or amaterasu. It will really just boil down to who slips up first, although if obito has izangi here I'd give him the advantage.


Kifflom!! said:


> All that EMS grants is eternal light,,, as stated by Itachi himself,, the techniques of EMS dont really matter from MS,,,
> u cud say its precog is better due to the fact that it doesnt put any strain on the eyes,,,
> 
> -The fact that A comfortably dodged Amaterasu at point blank range through his foot speed,,,,without the former being a sensor or blocking its LOS,,, and the fact that Minato (BARELY) managed to evade the kamui warp from FTG,, is why Kamui is faster than Amaterasu,,,,
> ...



There's no evidence to suggest kamui is faster than amaterasu it makes no sense b/c they both use the same principal. The flames appear where ever sasuke looks instantly just like kamui appears where ever the user looks"in kakashi's case at least but obito's version is roughly the same speed" there is no reason to think that kamui is faster.


Kifflom!! said:


> He doesnt have a need because his attacks in susnaoo are useless against obito,,,,
> Obito will simply phase through his susnaoo and proceed to warp him,,,,,



Ur point? sasuke will just blast his ass with enton as soon as he turns solid


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## ARGUS (Apr 30, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> he sucked them in here trademark


It could very well be BT,, however this is MS Obito only,,so lets jus stick to that


> He still has to turn solid to attacks sasuke and as soon as he does he eats a chidori nagashi or amaterasu. It will really just boil down to who slips up first, although if obito has izangi here I'd give him the advantage.


Never in a million years is obito getting hit by chidori nagashi,,,, furthermore due to his zetsu body,, he will regenerate quite quickly from it,, 
the jutsu is fodder in front of obito,,,,, 

Amaterasu is not happening either


> There's no evidence to suggest kamui is faster than amaterasu it makes no sense b/c they both use the same principal. The flames appear where ever sasuke looks instantly just like kamui appears where ever the user looks"in kakashi's case at least but obito's version is roughly the same speed" there is no reason to think that kamui is faster.


Their principle isnt really the same,, since Amaterasu still follows a projectile path as shown here
trademark 
now A dodged this attack rather comfortably,,,,  without going all out
trademark
and now we take in FTG vs A into account,,,, (this is A going at full speed)
trademark
trademark
notice how easily Minato has outspeeded A here 
through this comparison we can tell that FTG > V2 A >> Amaterasu  in speed,,, 
now comparing Minato to kamui,, we get
trademark
lvl 2 FTG jus managed to breach through the kamui warp,,, as kamui phasing is actually instant jus like FTG,,,, 
its due to this comparison which tells us that Kamui is faster than Amaterasu,,


> Ur point? sasuke will just blast his ass with enton as soon as he turns solid


Not happening at all,,,,


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## RedChidori (Apr 30, 2014)

Krippy said:


> Sasuke should know Obito needs to touch him to warp him, so he just waits till he tries to grab him then he just flash activates a Susano'o hand and shanks him with an Enton blade. If he uses Izanagi then Sasuke just outlasts it and repeats the process.
> 
> Minato activated Hiraishin during this process, and Susano'o activation has a similar activation so it should work.



This pretty much. But then again, I'm not sure because Obito is EXTREMELY hax with just *one* of his eyes, imagine if he had both . I mean we also have to take into account that Obito has a 5 minute limit on Kamui, and I'm positive that Sasuke can last over 5 minutes while fighting this guy. But I also assume that Obito can deactivate Kamui and then reactivate it, causing his 5 minute duration to restart, which will be extremely problematic for Sasuke, which results in Obito getting the victory mid-diff at most. Now if Sasuke is fully aware of the mechanics of Obito's Kamui, I say he takes it extreme-diff via Krippy's suggestion.


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## MYJC (May 2, 2014)

Sasuke has more offensive power, but Obito has better defense and I'm not sure Sasuke has an effective way to deal with it. Especially since Obito seems to be able to spam Kamui to his heart's content without having to worry about running out of chakra. 

So my best guess is that the match goes on for a while with neither character being able to land a decisive hit on the other, but eventually Obito outlasts Sasuke and warps him when he starts running low on chakra.


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