# Should I Take Out a Loan or Pay the Price All At Once?



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 23, 2020)

I am planning to have  performed on my abdominal region, but the procedure will be expensive: it will require four sessions at $500 apiece, for a total of $2,000, but I am uncertain if I should pay that entire price at one or take out a loan, to repay it gradually.

If I pay the entire price immediately, I will not need to worry about it, any further, but that is a significant amount of money to pay, whereas taking out a loan will allow me to repay the amount in installments over time, although there shall be interest. Also, if I do take out a loan, I will not take out a loan for the entire amount, but for only part of it, so that I shall have less money to repay.

What does everyone else say about this? Should I take out a loan or pay the entire price immediately?

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## wibisana (Nov 23, 2020)

i dont think whatever those sclup is, isnt necesary right now. in this hard time is better to save money


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## Itachі (Nov 23, 2020)

Can I ask why you feel the need to pay for such a procedure in the first place? Not tryna judge but unless someone has a lot of trouble losing weight then they could just sculpt their body naturally. You admit that it's a significant amount of money and thought it was important enough to make a thread about - are you sure the benefits of this procedure are worth the cost?

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Vagrant Tom (Nov 23, 2020)

What rate of interest would you expect on the loan? If the rate of interest is going to be lower than the rate of return you can expect from savings then you should get the loan. If not, pay it upfront.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 23, 2020)

wibisana said:


> i dont think whatever those sclup is, isnt necesary right now. in this hard time is better to save money



At this moment, I have a great job that is secure, so I do not need to worry about that.



Itachі said:


> Can I ask why you feel the need to pay for such a procedure in the first place? Not tryna judge but unless someone has a lot of trouble losing weight then they could just sculpt their body naturally. You admit that it's a significant amount of money and thought it was important enough to make a thread about - are you sure the benefits of this procedure are worth the cost?



I have always been active for my entire life, and I am making an effort to limit the amounts of fat and carbohydrates that I consume, but those efforts are not sufficient, so I am employing science to assist me; I am working smarter, rather than harder, which should be a comnendable course of action, in my mind.



Vagrant Tom said:


> What rate of interest would you expect on the loan? If the rate of interest is going to be lower than the rate of return you can expect from savings then you should get the loan. If not, pay it upfront.



I have taken out loans, in the past, and their rates of interest were low, as far as I can recall, so I expect the same to be true if I took out another loan, and please keep in mind that I defintiely will not take out a loan for the entire amount of $2,000; I shall likely take out a loan of only $1,000 to $1,200.


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## Canute87 (Nov 23, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> At this moment, I have a great job that is secure, so I do not need to worry about that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Before you do that.  See a nutritionist ,   Let them get your bloodtype.

Sometimes based on your blood type you might not process certain foods the way you should and it might be certain foods that is not giving your the result you want.  Also  don't eliminate fats.  Fats are actually good.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Voyeur (Nov 23, 2020)

The answer to the question varies on your financial circumstances and the rate of interest on the loan. If it's a low interest loan (0-5%) then I would say the loan _*as long as*_ you do not get penalized for early pay off and cannot afford to drop that much money without significant set back. If you're financially comfortable and can afford to make that large purchase without much burden then pay it off on your own since it'll be a one time expense and not a monthly bill.


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## Nello (Nov 24, 2020)

I would save up until there's enough in the bank to comfortably pay for the whole thing at once and still have some savings left over.

More importantly i'm hella skeptical about this treatment. AFAIK you can't choose where to lose fat, and exercising a certain bodypart won't make that bodypart slimmer than the rest of your body, just more muscular. And if you can't maintain the diet and exercise required for the physique you want, you're just gonna revert after your treatment. I think you should ask your doctor before you spend 2k.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 24, 2020)

Nello said:


> I would save up until there's enough in the bank to comfortably pay for the whole thing at once and still have some savings left over.
> 
> More importantly i'm hella skeptical about this treatment. AFAIK you can't choose where to lose fat, and exercising a certain bodypart won't make that bodypart slimmer than the rest of your body, just more muscular. And if you can't maintain the diet and exercise required for the physique you want, you're just gonna revert after your treatment. I think you should ask your doctor before you spend 2k.



Actually, after puberty, an adult human does not add any new fat cells to their body; their existing fat cells simply expand or shrink, so this procedure will permanently eliminate fat cells from the treated area, and it is not a replacement for exercise; it is a supplement, so I shall not abandon exercise when I have this treatment performed.

I have a week of vacation from work from Christmas to New Year's Eve, so I plan to have the procedure performed during that time, whcih is not long from now, so I shall need to begin saving money now and prepare to take out a loan, soon.


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## Nello (Nov 25, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Actually, after puberty, an adult human does not add any new fat cells to their body; their existing fat cells simply expand or shrink, so this procedure will permanently eliminate fat cells from the treated area, and it is not a replacement for exercise; it is a supplement, so I shall not abandon exercise when I have this treatment performed.
> 
> I have a week of vacation from work from Christmas to New Year's Eve, so I plan to have the procedure performed during that time, whcih is not long from now, so I shall need to begin saving money now and prepare to take out a loan, soon.


Doesn't that just mean the fat will go somewhere else? Whatever weight you have now, you will probably have after the procedure unless you change your diet.


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## RavenSupreme (Nov 25, 2020)

Just let your insurance cover it


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## T-Pein™ (Nov 25, 2020)

those before and after things look exactly the same....
Literally just posing differently.
looks like a scam

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Djomla (Nov 25, 2020)

Exercise. Stop eating like a pig. Lose weight, save money.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 25, 2020)

Nello said:


> Doesn't that just mean the fat will go somewhere else? Whatever weight you have now, you will probably have after the procedure unless you change your diet.



I have very little fat on my body, to begin with, but I wish to eliminate what little there is.



RavenSupreme said:


> Just let your insurance cover it



My insurance will not cover it, because it is a cosmetic procedure.



T-Pein™ said:


> those before and after things look exactly the same....
> Literally just posing differently.
> looks like a scam



They would not still be in business if their procedure did not work.



Djomla said:


> Exercise. Stop eating like a pig. Lose weight, save money.



How many times do I need to say that I _am_ exercising and eating a relatively healthy diet? Sometimes, those factors alone are not sufficient, and additional assistance is needed; I am using proven science to improve myself, which should be admirable.


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## T-Pein™ (Nov 25, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How many times do I need to say that I _am_ exercising and eating a relatively healthy diet? Sometimes, those factors alone are not sufficient, and additional assistance is needed; I am using proven science to improve myself, which should be admirable.



Try paying for a personal trainer.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 25, 2020)

T-Pein™ said:


> Try paying for a personal trainer.



I definitely have considered that idea, but I do not have time for a personal trainer when I am working a 40-hour-per-week job; also, this procedure causes one's muscles to contract 20,000 times in 30 minutes, which is more than what any person could achieve manually, so there is no way that that would not have a noticeable effect.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## 僕がキラだ (Nov 25, 2020)

Just pay it all at once. Unless you’re seeking to increase your credit score or doing it for some other shenanigan.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 25, 2020)

Anikee said:


> Just pay it all at once. Unless you’re seeking to increase your credit score or doing it for some other shenanigan.



That actually is a significant factor in this situation, since I need to have a good credit score, if I hope to take out a mortgage to purchase my own house.


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## 僕がキラだ (Nov 25, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That actually is a significant factor in this situation, since I need to have a good credit score, if I hope to take out a mortgage to purchase my own house.


Your assessment is that you can pay it off, so I don't see any downside to it. The interest should be minimal. But if it crosses 5% then there is a problem.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Nep Nep (Nov 25, 2020)

Have you tried doing a pool cardio routine? Just cause you're exercising doesn't mean you're doing the right kind of exercising for your goal.


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## Yamato (Nov 26, 2020)

If you really wanna save money and not spend a penny, work out more. You can’t expect to work out for a week and expect results immediately with the way it sounds like how you’re working out. Though the dance lessons should also help with burning fat. And yes, gotta change your diet too and stick with it.

Ever since the beginning of covid, Taekwondo classes halted and even till now. I’ve tried to work out with some weights I’ve got at home and taking my dogs out for runs, but that’s only helped me a little bit. I finally got back into more extreme workouts in my own back yard following my TKD routines and just being back there doing my thing for an hour and half helps, along with going out with my dogs and I did have to adjust my diet as well. Taking in couple hundred fewer calories, less fats and carbs and trying to regain muscle.
So far I’m at week two and it’s already showing. Just gotta really put your mind into it and motivate yourself. Once you’re past that then keeping that routine is easier. I’m usually active all day moving around constantly so that also helps.


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## Nello (Nov 26, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have very little fat on my body, to begin with, but I wish to eliminate what little there is.


I understand but idk if this procedure will make you any less hungry. You might just regain the fat you lose.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 26, 2020)

Nep Nep said:


> Have you tried doing a pool cardio routine? Just cause you're exercising doesn't mean you're doing the right kind of exercising for your goal.



My family used to have a swimming pool, but my parents had it filled in with soil, since it was too expensive to maintain; when we did have it, I swam in it frequently, because swimming is a great exercise, and I doubt that any public swimming pools are open, at this time.



Yamato said:


> If you really wanna save money and not spend a penny, work out more. You can’t expect to work out for a week and expect results immediately with the way it sounds like how you’re working out. Though the dance lessons should also help with burning fat. And yes, gotta change your diet too and stick with it.



I do exercise regularly, and I make an effort to limit the amount of fat and carbohydrates that I consume, but the abdominal muscles are among the most difficult muscles in the body to exercise, so an external stimulus will definitely be beneficial.



Nello said:


> I understand but idk if this procedure will make you any less hungry. You might just regain the fat you lose.



When fat cells die, they are gone forever, because post-pubescent people do not add any new fat cells.


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## Nello (Nov 26, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When fat cells die, they are gone forever, because post-pubescent people do not add any new fat cells.


You don't understand. If you eat enough food to sustain a certain amount of fat, then you're going to have a certain amount of fat, it just won't be in your abdomen.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 26, 2020)

Nello said:


> You don't understand. If you eat enough food to sustain a certain amount of fat, then you're going to have a certain amount of fat, it just won't be in your abdomen.



What about liposuction, in that case? I would prefer EMScuplt, because it both stimulates muscle growth and reduces fat, but I cannot disregard other potential treatments, as well.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Nello (Nov 26, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What about liposuction, in that case? I would prefer EMScuplt, because it both stimulates muscle growth and reduces fat, but I cannot disregard other potential treatments, as well.


Liposuction would also just displace the fat. I'm not a doctor but I know there's surgery where they restrict your stomach, effectively making it smaller so that you feel full sooner. But this is reserved for the morbidly obese with serious health concerns.

The best advice I could possibly give you is to talk to a doctor, but I don't think you can get around having to change your lifestyle.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Nello (Nov 26, 2020)

Btw if it's just a little bit of fat you want to lose, then simply building muscle to replace the fat will take care of that as long as you don't increase your caloric intake. Same thing applies here too though, if you want to maintain the muscle you have to work for it yourself.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## wibisana (Nov 26, 2020)

pretty sure you already in shape, you dont need this.it wont makes you easier to get laid.

save up, or buy something more useful.

save up to 5000 buy tikets to Ph or Th
lose your virginity there

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## David (Nov 26, 2020)

You do you, DDJ, but I take issue with the bolded. I'll also recommend a different investment.



DemonDragonJ said:


> I have always been active for my entire life, and I am making an effort to limit the amounts of fat and carbohydrates that I consume, but those efforts are not sufficient, so I am employing science to assist me; I am working smarter, rather than harder, *which should be a comnendable course of action, in my mind.*





DemonDragonJ said:


> How many times do I need to say that I _am_ exercising and eating a relatively healthy diet? Sometimes, those factors alone are not sufficient, and additional assistance is needed; I am using proven science to improve myself, *which should be admirable.*



What's commendable or admirable about paying for a better body instead of putting in the work? Money buys shortcuts. It's not exceptionally smart.

This strikes me as a lazy choice made for meager short-term satisfaction more than anything else. Here's why.

I looked up the before- and after-pictures on EMSculpt as well as the reported improvements to strength, and IMO you'd be shelling out $2,000 for some marginal gains. That money could go a long way toward facilitating your physical growth by *actually* making smart investments — investments that enable you to create and maintain healthful practices and habits which build you a body far stronger and better-looking than the results you see on the EMSculpt website.

The downside is that these investments I'm referring to — into resources such as personal trainers and dietitians — require time, effort and long-term discipline on your part to get results. But they can build you an exponentially stronger body that lasts a lifetime, and that's what I'd call smart.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Mider T (Nov 28, 2020)

Neither.  Hit the gym Lay-Z-boi.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## blk (Nov 28, 2020)

Are you kidding? 

It's a scam or if not at the very least a massively overpriced piece of junk that is not anymore effective (in fact it's less effective) than TRAINING your abs and eating less. 
Which is free and only beneficial. 

DON'T waste your hard earned money for that. 

It's physiologically impossible to significantly increase the size of ANY muscle in like... 4 sessions of 30 min or something? What a joke. 
Not even steroids can grow your abs 25% bigger in two hours lol.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## ~M~ (Nov 28, 2020)

There's a typo on the front page of this site: 



> *Regardless of age, muscles* are vital to your overall  health. Muscles compreise 35% of your body and allow for movement, balance, physical strength, organ function, skin integrity, immunity and wound healing.



Trust its results based on that


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## ~M~ (Nov 28, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When fat cells die, they are gone forever, because post-pubescent people do not add any new fat cells.


FYI the only cells that do not regrow are brain cells (which new evidence suggests you can); you will freely grow fat as most American bodies will empirically demonstrate.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 30, 2020)

blk said:


> Are you kidding?
> 
> It's a scam or if not at the very least a massively overpriced piece of junk that is not anymore effective (in fact it's less effective) than TRAINING your abs and eating less.
> Which is free and only beneficial.
> ...



This process works by using magnetic fields to cause the muscles to contract 20,000 times in 30 minutes, which no person could ever do without assistance, so it is not using chemical steroids or cheating in any way; it is simply compressing great amounts of exercise into a brief duration (not unlike using the Room of Spirit and Time from _Dragon Ball_ to achieve a year's worth of training in a single day).

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Vagrant Tom (Dec 1, 2020)

Sounds like pseudoscience to me. Have you tried acupuncture?


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## Mintaka (Dec 1, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> This process works by using magnetic fields to cause the muscles to contract 20,000 times in 30 minutes, which no person could ever do without assistance, so it is not using chemical steroids or cheating in any way; it is simply compressing great amounts of exercise into a brief duration (not unlike using the Room of Spirit and Time from _Dragon Ball_ to achieve a year's worth of training in a single day).


How?

How does using magnetic fields cause your muscles to contract at all?

Further, lets just assume that this does work.  How are you going maintain them if you can't even slow down enough to geta personal trainer?


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## Atlantic Storm (Dec 1, 2020)

not this shit again 

didn't we go through this with that dumb belt you wanted to buy a few years ago?

it's a scam

a very expensive scam which does not work, designed to pull in people with more coin than sense

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Funny 2 | Informative 1


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## blk (Dec 1, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> This process works by using magnetic fields to cause the muscles to contract 20,000 times in 30 minutes, which no person could ever do without assistance, so it is not using chemical steroids or cheating in any way; it is simply compressing great amounts of exercise into a brief duration (not unlike using the Room of Spirit and Time from _Dragon Ball_ to achieve a year's worth of training in a single day).



If you can contract 20000 times a muscle in 30 minutes it means that each contraction is extremely shallow and produces a very very small stimulus.

To more easily visualize what i mean, think of bicep curls that you normally do at the gym.
A machine that forces your biceps to do 20k actual fatiguing contractions (like if you had a weight around 60/70% of your 1rm) in quick succession w/out any rest won't cause your biceps to grow, it would tear them up, trash them into a pulp and destroy connective tissue.
If that doesn't happen it means that the each contraction or rep has essentially zero stimulus, as if you were curling a pencil.
I mean you can literally try it, next time you train pick a decent weight as written above and do as much as you can with no rest.... your bicep will gas out between 10 to 20 or so reps and if you somehow forced it to do more, it will snap in short order.


So point being that it's not possible for a muscle to perform so much TRUE hypertrophy inducing volume in so little time.


On top of this, the other biological limit is that a muscle cannot grow more than certain amount in a short time frame.
Even for beginners it's less than 1% per day if they do an optimized strength program with proper diet, and that's in the whole body let alone a specific muscle.
This rate obviously decreases rapidly in the span of months as the low hanging gains are being consumed.


I can even believe that this treatment / machine can make your abdomen more flat and perhaps add a bit of definition, but don't expect miracles from it nor a ridiculous 25% increase of actual muscles in the abs. In 2 hours of therapy lol.
And no it's not equivalent to years of training compressed in a few hours, as explained above (it's literally impossible).

It won't change significantly or at all your appearance (heck in the website itself, where they surely put the best results they ever got, the after pictures aren't overly impressive) and it's likely a temporary effect.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Valgrind (Dec 1, 2020)

just get ab surgery like this guy


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## Valgrind (Dec 1, 2020)

admittedly it's still not a good way to make people love you but if abs is what you want...


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## Gin (Dec 1, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> not this shit again
> 
> didn't we go through this with that dumb belt you wanted to buy a few years ago?
> 
> ...


are you just mad that ddj's gonna achieve what you did after years of painstaking gymbroing in a matter of days?

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Atlantic Storm (Dec 1, 2020)

Gin said:


> are you just mad that ddj's gonna achieve what you did after years of painstaking gymbroing in a matter of days?


i had abs when i started because i was super skinny

i'd rather ddj turn into a juicy gymbro than waste his money and time on this nonsense


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## Valgrind (Dec 1, 2020)

~M~ said:


> FYI the only cells that do not regrow are brain cells (which new evidence suggests you can); you will freely grow fat as most American bodies will empirically demonstrate.


this isn't correct, heart cells do not regrow either.


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## Mider T (Dec 1, 2020)

Imagine if DDJ had the kind of persistence he shows in doing everything to avoid the gym, for dating.  He'd be married with kids by now.


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## Valgrind (Dec 1, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> (not unlike using the Room of Spirit and Time from _Dragon Ball_ to achieve a year's worth of training in a single day).


but this is fiction

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Valgrind (Dec 1, 2020)

Mider T said:


> Imagine if DDJ had the kind of persistence he shows in doing everything to avoid the gym, for dating.  He'd be married with kids by now.


judging by DDJ's t-shirts and previous posts he'd be much more likely to be married to kids than with kids.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 1, 2020)

Mintaka said:


> How?
> 
> How does using magnetic fields cause your muscles to contract at all?
> 
> Further, lets just assume that this does work.  How are you going maintain them if you can't even slow down enough to geta personal trainer?



First, I have no idea how that would work; second, I will not abandon normal exercise; this is a supplement, rather than a replacement.



Atlantic Storm said:


> not this shit again
> 
> didn't we go through this with that dumb belt you wanted to buy a few years ago?
> 
> ...



This thread is not for discussing whether or not I should have this treatment, because I have made my decsion, and I will have it; the question is whether or not I should take out a loan for it.



blk said:


> If you can contract 20000 times a muscle in 30 minutes it means that each contraction is extremely shallow and produces a very very small stimulus.
> 
> To more easily visualize what i mean, think of bicep curls that you normally do at the gym.
> A machine that forces your biceps to do 20k actual fatiguing contractions (like if you had a weight around 60/70% of your 1rm) in quick succession w/out any rest won't cause your biceps to grow, it would tear them up, trash them into a pulp and destroy connective tissue.
> ...



That makes sense, but how is the company that offers this procedure still in business if their treatment does not work? Alternately, what if I had liposuction performed on my abdominal region, since my main goal is fat reduction (the muscle building is simply an added bonus)?

I have conducted great research on this subject; I ensured that I read articles from websites that would not be biased, not merely from the websites of providers of this treatment, and, if you wish, I can provide links to those articles, here.



Shrike (old) said:


> just get ab surgery like this guy



I would rather avoid surgery, which is why I am contemplating a non-surgical procedure.



Mider T said:


> Imagine if DDJ had the kind of persistence he shows in doing everything to avoid the gym, for dating.  He'd be married with kids by now.



I do _not_ avoid exercising at a gym, and I actually enjoy working there, and I assure you that I am putting forth great effort in my search for a new girlfriend; currently, it is tied with my master's degree classes as the task that has the highest priority in my life.



Shrike (old) said:


> judging by DDJ's t-shirts and previous posts he'd be much more likely to be married to kids than with kids.



I take great offense to that statement, and to what "T-shirts and previous posts" are you referring?

It really bothers me that everyone here is doubting proven science; your behavior is not significantly different from that of people who deny that climate change is occurring or who downplayed the severity of the Covid-19 pandemic. Science has made many improvements to this world, and I am seeking to use that same science to improve myself. If scientists can grow new organs from raw tissue, it is logical that they can eliminate fat cells while building muscle.



Atlantic Storm said:


> i had abs when i started because i was super skinny
> 
> i'd rather ddj turn into a juicy gymbro than waste his money and time on this nonsense



Again, this is _science,_ and the majority of scientific breakthroughs have been criticized as nonsense before being accepted by the public, so I feel that the same is true with this procedure, as well; it is only  a matter of time before fat reduction is as easy and inexpensive as removing moles from a person's skin or removing tattoos with lasers, and I thought that someone as intelligent as yourself would be in favor of employing new forms of science. Your disdain for this treatment is the equivalent of someone preferring a horse-drawn carriage when automobiles are generally superior; you are being a Luddite who wishes to use old-fashioned methods; working harder is great, but is it not better to work _smarter?_

Perhaps I do should not have this procedure performed on me, just yet, since I feel that I still do not have sufficient money to afford it, so I instead may have laser hair removal performed on various areas of my body. One clinic estimated that it would cost $700.00 to perform laser hair removal on my underarms, so it would be great to not need to shave those areas; by spending a single fee upfront, I will be saving myself countless hours of shaving and far more money over a long duration, which is logical decision. What does everyone else think about that?


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## Mider T (Dec 1, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I do _not_ avoid exercising at a gym, and I actually enjoy working there, and I assure you that I am putting forth great effort i


Nah this is a lie, otherwise you wouldn't be getting this procedure.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 1, 2020)

Mider T said:


> Nah this is a lie, otherwise you wouldn't be getting this procedure.



That is what you say, and you saying it does not make it true.


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## David (Dec 1, 2020)

I get that you're looking for advice on paying for the procedure but feel it would do you a disservice to recommend paying at all. I advise taking my previous post to heart:



			
				Excerpt from said post said:
			
		

> That money could go a long way toward facilitating your physical growth by actually making smart investments — investments that enable you to create and maintain healthful practices and habits which build you a body far stronger and better-looking than the results you see on the EMSculpt website.
> 
> The downside is that these investments I'm referring to — into resources such as personal trainers and dietitians — require time, effort and long-term discipline on your part to get results. But they can build you an exponentially stronger body that lasts a lifetime, and that's what I'd call smart.



I'll add that many women consider fit men attractive because fitness shows strength, discipline and self-care, none granted by this procedure to a significant degree, which makes it ineffective in more ways than one.


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## Mider T (Dec 1, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That is what you say, and you saying it does not make it true.


I say it because it's true, you shared your lazy gym routine with us before.  You didn't take advice then either.


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## Atlantic Storm (Dec 1, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Again, this is _science,_ and the majority of scientific breakthroughs have been criticized as nonsense before being accepted by the public, so I feel that the same is true with this procedure, as well; it is only  a matter of time before fat reduction is as easy and inexpensive as removing moles from a person's skin or removing tattoos with lasers, and I thought that someone as intelligent as yourself would be in favor of employing new forms of science. Your disdain for this treatment is the equivalent of someone preferring a horse-drawn carriage when automobiles are generally superior; you are being a Luddite who wishes to use old-fashioned methods; working harder is grrat, but is it not better to work _smarter?_


I've said what I wanted to say and I'm not really interested in discussing this any further, given your history with debate on this forum and the ridiculousness of your comparisons and equivocations. 

Go for the procedure if you want, just don't be surprised when it turns out that - once again - you spent a substantial sum of money on something that is not only frivolous but also completely worthless.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## blk (Dec 2, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That makes sense, but how is the company that offers this procedure still in business if their treatment does not work? Alternately, what if I had liposuction performed on my abdominal region, since my main goal is fat reduction (the muscle building is simply an added bonus)?
> 
> I have conducted great research on this subject; I ensured that I read articles from websites that would not be biased, not merely from the websites of providers of this treatment, and, if you wish, I can provide links to those articles, here.



I don't know. As i said i can believe that the treatment flattens the stomach a bit / temporarily , but it doesn't seem anything substantial from the pictures and for reasons already stated.

Personally liposuction is something i would MAYBE consider if i was obese, starting to have serious health problems, and couldn't lose weight normally.

I understand you want to reduce fat in the abs but i can't recommend any of these procedures in good faith.
Since as far as i remember not only you are not fat or obese, but skinny iirc.

Yes share the links of these research, so perhaps we can see if it is more legit than we thought.

You could write your diet and workout too to see if there is any major improvement to be done.


Lastly just to reply to the original question, if i were to pay 5k for something i would prolly do it w/out a loan.
It's a decent amount of money but not so much as to require a loan, if you don't have the cash already saving for a few months should do.


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## Vagrant Tom (Dec 2, 2020)

You are very defensive on the "science" here. Do you have any peer reviewed journals to back this up? Otherwise your comparison to Covid research is laughable. 

Also, I don't understand why you want laser hair removal as well. Call me old fashioned but I think that men should have a little hair on their body. But if you did want to remove it, surely there are cheaper ways.


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## dergeist (Dec 2, 2020)

Well, I intend to buy a bike, I will put down a deposit take a loan, use it and sell it. On an upgrade I would've paid 400 or so for a transitional one.

As for your procedure, there's really no need. Just do stomach vacuums along with exercise, train and start intermittent fasting.


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## Valgrind (Dec 2, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, I have no idea how that would work; second, I will not abandon normal exercise; this is a supplement, rather than a replacement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well you don't want kids

and you have t-shirt design that says "if there's grass on the field, play ball"


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## T-Pein™ (Dec 2, 2020)

Ok then,
DO not take out a loan,
Just save the money.
Then do it all at once.
Loans are a scam.


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## Vagrant Tom (Dec 2, 2020)

Shrike (old) said:


> well you don't want kids
> 
> and you have t-shirt design that says "if there's grass on the field, play ball"




lol, that's so cringe


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## Valgrind (Dec 2, 2020)

Vagrant Tom said:


> lol, that's so cringe


to be fair i could have misinterpreted it and DDJ is simply a passionate sportsman and opponent of astroturf

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Nello (Dec 2, 2020)

Have you made a decision or talked to your doctor yet?


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## Raiden (Dec 2, 2020)

I don't think you should pay for that/get in shape the natural way.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 2, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Go for the procedure if you want, just don't be surprised when it turns out that - once again - you spent a substantial sum of money on something that is not only frivolous but also completely worthless.



You still have not explained how they could still be in business if their procedure did not work; perhaps the first several patients would be fooled, but, as time passed, and more people had the procedure, the clinic would eventually lose business as it became apparent that their procedure was ineffective. If you do not mind me asking, have you conducted any research on this procedure?

Also, as I said, above, I am considering waiting to have this procedure performed, as I completed my Christmas shopping not long ago and need to recover from that.



blk said:


> Personally liposuction is something i would MAYBE consider if i was obese, starting to have serious health problems, and couldn't lose weight normally.



Liposuction is actually intended for removing small amounts of fat, not large amounts of fat; if a person has excessive amounts of fat, their only feasible options are to limit their calorie intake and exercise as frequently as possible, because sucking away large amounts of fat too quickly would shock their system.



blk said:


> I understand you want to reduce fat in the abs but i can't recommend any of these procedures in good faith.
> Since as far as i remember not only you are not fat or obese, but skinny iirc.



My entire body is skinny, except for a patch of barely noticeable fat, and that bothers me, because well-defined abdominal muscles are one of the most significant traits of attractive and well-muscled people, but the abdominal muscles are some of the most difficult muscles in the body to exercise, because they are rarely ever used for any task in normal daily activity.



blk said:


> Yes share the links of these research, so perhaps we can see if it is more legit than we thought.





Vagrant Tom said:


> You are very defensive on the "science" here. Do you have any peer reviewed journals to back this up? Otherwise your comparison to Covid research is laughable.



Here are some links:











I found these pages by conducting an internet search for "EMsculpt," and these sites were on the first page of results; I also learned that there is a newer version of  that, in addition to the magnetic fields that cause muscle contractions, produces heat that damages fat cells, so I intend to research that variation of the procedure.



Vagrant Tom said:


> Also, I don't understand why you want laser hair removal as well. Call me old fashioned but I think that men should have a little hair on their body. But if you did want to remove it, surely there are cheaper ways.



I dislike body hair, since I feel that it makes people look bestial and savage, and I believe that a hairless body is a sign of culture, civilization, and sophistication; also, as I said before, I would be spending a certain amount of money upfront to save a significantly grater amount of money over the course of many years, which I believe is a wise investment.



T-Pein™ said:


> Ok then,
> DO not take out a loan,
> Just save the money.
> Then do it all at once.
> Loans are a scam.



That may be a good idea, since I need to be careful about how much money I spend; every year, my company has a weeklong vacation from Christmas to New Year's Eve, so, perhaps, I can use this upcoming Christmas vacation for laser hair removal and have EMSculpt performed next Christmas vacation.



Nello said:


> Have you made a decision or talked to your doctor yet?



I have not spoken to my doctor, but the high price of the procedure is what is making this decision difficult; if it was even $500.00 less, I would not hesitate to have it performed, but I cannot justify spending $2,000.00 on this procedure at this time.



Raiden said:


> I don't think you should pay for that/get in shape the natural way.



I have always been active for my entire life; I have never been lazy or sedentary, so there is no logical explanation for how I could not be in the best possible condition in which I could be.

I had my wisdom teeth removed when I was in high school, but I did not need to have that surgery performed; I could have allowed them to grow in, and risked severe discomfort for the rest of my life. I wear glasses, but, if I wished to do so, I could instead not wear them and endure having poor vision, which would severely hinder my ability to function. If a gardener found weeds in their garden, they would likely eliminate those weeds while they were still small and easy to eliminate, rather than waiting for them to grow large and difficult to remove. By that logic, if I eliminate the fat cells on my body while they are small and barely noticeable, it will be much easier to do so than if I allowed them to grow larger and severely conspicuous.


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## Raiden (Dec 2, 2020)

Lol wat. I didn’t say you were lazy.


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## Nello (Dec 2, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have not spoken to my doctor, but the high price of the procedure is what is making this decision difficult; if it was even $500.00 less, I would not hesitate to have it performed, but I cannot justify spending $2,000.00 on this procedure at this time.


Well if you can't afford to spend 2k frivolously then I don't think this procedure is right for you. The best case scenario here is that you see some temporary benefits, and it doesn't seem like you can afford to do this regularly.

Is there any reason in particular you don't want to change your lifestyle? It's easier if you start out really small. And because you only need to lose a little bit of fat, it wouldn't take long to reach your goal. IMO even just starting a new lifestyle is very satisfying.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 2, 2020)

Nello said:


> Well if you can't afford to spend 2k frivolously then I don't think this procedure is right for you. The best case scenario here is that you see some temporary benefits, and it doesn't seem like you can afford to do this regularly.



In April, it will have been an entire year since my job became permanent with benefits, so I hope to eventually receive a raise in salary, which may influence my decision.



Nello said:


> Is there any reason in particular you don't want to change your lifestyle? It's easier if you start out really small. And because you only need to lose a little bit of fat, it wouldn't take long to reach your goal. IMO even just starting a new lifestyle is very satisfying.



As I said, before, I am very active and am making an effort to be careful with my diet, so the only significant change that I could make would be to exercise even more frequently and completely remove fat and carbohydrates from my diet, but I work a 40-hour-per-week job, so I can barely afford to increase my exercise, and I feel that I can eat sweet foods on occasion, provided that I am sufficiently active to burn off the calories from those foods.

As I said, I am not abandoning my plans to have this procedure performed, but I am deciding that I may need to postpone it, for the present time, mainly due to finances; why are these procedures so expensive? Is the equipment that is used for them really that expensive to operate and maintain?


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## Nello (Dec 2, 2020)

Well you wouldn't have to exercise more or necessarily cut fat/carbs, just cut a few calories. Anyway it doesn't seem like you're going to change your mind so best of luck with everything. If the treatment doesn't help then I hope you can learn to be happy with what you have.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vagrant Tom (Dec 3, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I dislike body hair, since I feel that it makes people look bestial and savage, and I believe that a hairless body is a sign of culture, civilization, and sophistication; also, as I said before, I would be spending a certain amount of money upfront to save a significantly grater amount of money over the course of many years, which I believe is a wise investment.



I wonder how women feel about that. Do you shave your legs?




DemonDragonJ said:


> Here are some links:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Going through the links top to bottom:
1. Plastic surgery website that is selling the procedure, totally biased trying to sell the product. Not peer reviewed science.
2. Women's magazine. Not peer reviewed science.
3. Women's magazine. Not peer reviewed science.
4. Magazine. Not peer reviewed science.
5. Magazine. Not peer reviewed science.

To be honest, I wonder if the magazines aren't just sponsored content. I don't see any links to scientific journals with peer review in that list. I thought you were studying for a masters degree? If you cited any of these links in any essay or research for any scientific discipline you'd be laughed out the building. So you certainly can't claim that everyone is arguing against science because this is not proven science.

Why are the companies still in business? Because they only need your money once. Being in business doesn't mean what you offer actually works. I could go get acupuncture or a psychic reading or some other nonsense that is bullshit. But these places have been in business for far, far longer than this dubious procedure.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sloan (Dec 3, 2020)

You might pay the price if you pay the price.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## blk (Dec 3, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Liposuction is actually intended for removing small amounts of fat, not large amounts of fat; if a person has excessive amounts of fat, their only feasible options are to limit their calorie intake and exercise as frequently as possible, because sucking away large amounts of fat too quickly would shock their system.



I see.



DemonDragonJ said:


> My entire body is skinny, except for a patch of barely noticeable fat, and that bothers me, because well-defined abdominal muscles are one of the most significant traits of attractive and well-muscled people, but the abdominal muscles are some of the most difficult muscles in the body to exercise, because they are rarely ever used for any task in normal daily activity.



But you are not well-muscled by your own admission, so i would argue work on becoming jacked instead of spending 5k for skinny abs.

Abs by themselves don't make a good physique.

But you do you of course.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Here are some links:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



None of this is research, they are random articles from generic health blogs.

I might even trust that their statements are vaguely accurate despite not being research, but the pictures of before-after that they themselves are showing are legitimately not impressive.

AND

It seems like the effects of the procedure are not lasting, they say you either maintain them with the necessary amount of exercise and dieting (in which case.... just skip the treatment, save the 5k, and do the hard exercise and dieting in the first place so you'll get the abs by yourself) or you'll lose the results and will need "maintainance" sessions to obtain them again. So other thousands of dollars down the drain.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ashi (Dec 3, 2020)

Wait didn’t you mention this before or was that about some other miracle weight loss gadget

Reactions: Like 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 3, 2020)

Nello said:


> Well you wouldn't have to exercise more or necessarily cut fat/carbs, just cut a few calories. Anyway it doesn't seem like you're going to change your mind so best of luck with everything. If the treatment doesn't help then I hope you can learn to be happy with what you have.



You are not the first person to say that about me, but you barely even know me, so how can you say that? And I imagine that reducing my calorie intake would not be especially difficult, for me.



Vagrant Tom said:


> I wonder how women feel about that. Do you shave your legs?



I do shave my legs, but I do not care what women think about that, because it is my body. If most women shave their legs, what is wrong with men doing so?



Vagrant Tom said:


> Going through the links top to bottom:
> 1. Plastic surgery website that is selling the procedure, totally biased trying to sell the product. Not peer reviewed science.
> 2. Women's magazine. Not peer reviewed science.
> 3. Women's magazine. Not peer reviewed science.
> ...





blk said:


> None of this is research, they are random articles from generic health blogs.
> 
> I might even trust that their statements are vaguely accurate despite not being research, but the pictures of before-after that they themselves are showing are legitimately not impressive.
> 
> ...



Those are actually compelling arguments to carefully consider whether or not I should have this procedure performed, but I am not abandoning my quest to reduce my abdominal fat; if scientists can harness nuclear power or grow new organs in a laboratory, it is only logical that they will eventually discover a foolproof method of fat reduction; history has demonstrated that.


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## Shanks (Dec 3, 2020)

Not sure about other people, but I always pay everything in full (except for mortgage). If you don’t have the money, don’t spend.

Reactions: Like 1 | Useful 1


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## Island (Dec 3, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have not spoken to my doctor


You should do this.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Mider T (Dec 3, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have always been active for my entire life; I have never been lazy or sedentary


Not true.


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## blk (Dec 4, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Those are actually compelling arguments to carefully consider whether or not I should have this procedure performed, but I am not abandoning my quest to reduce my abdominal fat; if scientists can harness nuclear power or grow new organs in a laboratory, it is only logical that they will eventually discover a foolproof method of fat reduction; history has demonstrated that.



Yeah those are not really accurate comparisons tho.... (it's like saying we should have a cure for male baldness just because we have invented computers).

And btw methods (that actually work) to greatly speed up muscle growth & fat reduction already exist, they are called anabolic steroids... 


Anyway i rest my case, i still think you should simply adjust your diet and activity level to make your abs more defined (although in your case i would not concentrate on LOSING more weight, but on ADDING lean mass).... good luck if you'll still go on with the procedure tho..

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jim (Dec 5, 2020)

ok so a few things, one thing is that you mentioned you have "barely noticeable amounts of fat". You should know that everybody's body is different so if you could be as fit as someone else, but your body structure is completely different. Even me saying "as fit as someone else" makes little sense. So it's possible that if you were the strongest man in the world, someone who performs less physically could _look _stronger and more physically fit.

also


DemonDragonJ said:


> produces heat that damages fat cells


Damaging your fat cells isn't necessarily a good thing, even if you want to get rid of fat.



Atlantic Storm said:


> not this shit again
> 
> didn't we go through this with that dumb belt you wanted to buy a few years ago?
> 
> ...


Ok, so a lot of people in this thread have been talking about this scam so i went to check if the FDA approved claim is accurate, and it seems like they applied for FDA approval by saying this device is similar to another device that was FDA approved, but i couldn't' find which device and what purpose. It's a quick way that is often used to get FDA approval and is and incredibly useful method that reduces work on both the company and FDA ends.

In a sense, it seems like the FDA approved it for safety, rather than confirming the claims that the website makes though. It seems suspicious that they have a different FDA message on their website.


DemonDragonJ said:


> You still have not explained how they could still be in business if their procedure did not work; perhaps the first several patients would be fooled, but, as time passed, and more people had the procedure, the clinic would eventually lose business as it became apparent that their procedure was ineffective. If you do not mind me asking, have you conducted any research on this procedure?


You say this knowing this is a country that made alex jones a millionaire  

Anyway, i know someone who went through laser lipo and liked the results, maybe you can try that? It _might_ be a scam as well, so you could probably check around and ask your doctor about it.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Magic (Dec 5, 2020)

You still obessed with this.....


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 5, 2020)

blk said:


> And btw methods (that actually work) to greatly speed up muscle growth & fat reduction already exist, they are called anabolic steroids...



I have conducted research about steroids, and they have numerous negative side effects that I do not wish to experience.


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## Mider T (Dec 7, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have conducted research about steroids, and they have numerous negative side effects that I do not wish to experience.


Imagine realizing this but still wanting to waste money on dumb shit like the surgery.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Joe Maiafication (Dec 7, 2020)

Depend.

If interest is 0%-5% I'd take the loan even though i have the money.
If interest is more than 10%, just pay in full.


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## Worm Juice (Dec 9, 2020)

You’re getting a lot of resistance. I am planning to do something similar once I hit my goal weight range of 45-47kg, depending on what I will look like at that time. My fat accumulates at the belly, which means if I want to have a flat belly I also most probably will have to be entirely flat-chested and have an -a cup. In a way that is not all that bad but if I still have a fat belly at that moment despite loosing weight and exercising I will try coolsculpting. There is only so much you can exercise away.

btw moneywise, idk the American creditsystem. If you want to boost your credit can’t you save for it and once you saved it all take out a loan and pay it off with the savings on a monthly base. That way you can ensure you have the money and it gives you some more time to get your body and mind in the best state possible before the procedure.


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## dergeist (Dec 9, 2020)

Joe Maya said:


> Depend.
> 
> If interest is 0%-5% I'd take the loan even though i have the money.
> If interest is more than 10%, just pay in full.



What if it's 5.01%-9.99%


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## Joe Maiafication (Dec 9, 2020)

dergeist said:


> What if it's 5.01%-9.99%




Depend on yr financial status.


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## Vagrant Tom (Dec 9, 2020)

Worm Juice said:


> You’re getting a lot of resistance. I am planning to do something similar once I hit my goal weight range of 45-47kg, depending on what I will look like at that time. My fat accumulates at the belly, which means if I want to have a flat belly I also most probably will have to be entirely flat-chested and have an -a cup. In a way that is not all that bad but if I still have a fat belly at that moment despite loosing weight and exercising I will try coolsculpting. There is only so much you can exercise away.
> 
> btw moneywise, idk the American creditsystem. If you want to boost your credit can’t you save for it and once you saved it all take out a loan and pay it off with the savings on a monthly base. That way you can ensure you have the money and it gives you some more time to get your body and mind in the best state possible before the procedure.




45 kg! That's very, very light. That doesn't sound healthy to me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Joe Maiafication (Dec 9, 2020)

Vagrant Tom said:


> 45 kg! That's very, very light. That doesn't sound healthy to me.



Normal for a healthy lady. 

Those k pop star will shudder if their weight hit above 45kg.


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## Magic (Dec 9, 2020)

Vagrant Tom said:


> 45 kg! That's very, very light. That doesn't sound healthy to me.


Oh wow that's pretty lightweight. I had to convert but yeah.



Sloan said:


> You might pay the price if you pay the price.


 His mind is already made up. :^)


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## Worm Juice (Dec 10, 2020)

Vagrant Tom said:


> 45 kg! That's very, very light. That doesn't sound healthy to me.


I am 4”11, my bmi would be around 22, (adjusted for low heights). What you are used to seeing in advertisements etc. is probably a bmi between 17-19. So if you don’t think that’s too skinny, my goal weight of 45 kg is above that...


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## Vagrant Tom (Dec 10, 2020)

I didn't realise that you were that height. Just assumed you'd be in the 5'4" to 5'6" range.

I don't like the women in adverts, they look ok but lack a chest. Personally I'd keep your weight and not downgrade to A cups as you suggest might happen.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pilaf (Dec 11, 2020)

No, you shouldn't get a two thousand dollar loan for a tummy tuck. It's not that important. Also probiotics were the secret key for my successful weight loss/fitness program. I don't believe there's any such thing as a magic bullet that works for everyone, but I overlooked those in previous failed attempts and they really were a game changer for me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Smoke (Dec 12, 2020)

If you do it in Mexico, it'll cost you less than half.


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## blk (Dec 12, 2020)

Worm Juice said:


> You’re getting a lot of resistance. I am planning to do something similar once I hit my goal weight range of 45-47kg, depending on what I will look like at that time. My fat accumulates at the belly, which means if I want to have a flat belly I also most probably will have to be entirely flat-chested and have an -a cup. In a way that is not all that bad but if I still have a fat belly at that moment despite loosing weight and exercising I will try coolsculpting. There is only so much you can exercise away.
> 
> btw moneywise, idk the American creditsystem. If you want to boost your credit can’t you save for it and once you saved it all take out a loan and pay it off with the savings on a monthly base. That way you can ensure you have the money and it gives you some more time to get your body and mind in the best state possible before the procedure.



What about dieting to a flat stomach, and then have a breast implant if you become flat chested? 

Plenty of fitness girls do that (a parent of mine who is a bikini competitor did that)... flat stomach from emssculp is only temporary, while flat stomach from exercise & diet + breast implant isn't....


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## dergeist (Dec 12, 2020)

Joe Maya said:


> Normal for a healthy lady.
> 
> Those k pop star will shudder if their weight hit above 45kg.



How much does Chou Tsuyu weigh

Reactions: Like 1


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## Worm Juice (Dec 12, 2020)

blk said:


> What about dieting to a flat stomach, and then have a breast implant if you become flat chested?
> 
> Plenty of fitness girls do that (a parent of mine who is a bikini competitor did that)... flat stomach from emssculp is only temporary, while flat stomach from exercise & diet + breast implant isn't....


Breast implants probably don’t work too well with the full contact sports I do. It’s close to rugby. What fat percentage do they usually have? The people you are talking about?


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## blk (Dec 12, 2020)

Worm Juice said:


> Breast implants probably don’t work too well with the full contact sports I do. It’s close to rugby. What fat percentage do they usually have? The people you are talking about?



10% or less (but i don't think they push below 8/7%) during competition day.
Otherwise they keep themselves defined but at more sustainable bf%, probably between 12 to 18...depends also on the person ofc.
It's very common for bikini/physique competitors to have implants exactly because they would all be flat chested w/out them.

No idea if they can make contact sports more difficult tho.. 

Just though i would mention it since emsculp is not really a permanent thing for having a flat stomach.. At the end of the day it's either have less bf% or bust.. but that implies having smaller breasts unless you naturally have large ones


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## T-Pein™ (Dec 12, 2020)

Worm Juice said:


> Breast implants probably don’t work too well with the full contact sports I do. It’s close to rugby. What fat percentage do they usually have? The people you are talking about?



All of the WWE girls have them.
They are jumping into each other. Full impact.
Bodyslams and what not.
There is always the right one for the job.
Fitness competitors go down to 9% - 15%
But they only maintain this lower % for a few days.
Just for competition and photo sessions.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Worm Juice (Dec 13, 2020)

blk said:


> 10% or less (but i don't think they push below 8/7%) during competition day.
> Otherwise they keep themselves defined but at more sustainable bf%, probably between 12 to 18...depends also on the person ofc.
> It's very common for bikini/physique competitors to have implants exactly because they would all be flat chested w/out them.
> 
> ...


Ah interesting. I was 25% last time it was measured. Probably will be closer to 18% when I hit that weight goal. And the goal is a flat stomach, a flat chest would be a bit of a bummer but ok if the goal of having a flat stomach is achieved.

idk know so many wwe people had them though, so those are some sturdy boobs

Reactions: Like 1


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## Karasu (Dec 13, 2020)

I always save for things then pay. Doesn't really matter what it is.


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## Ashi (Dec 13, 2020)

Worm Juice said:


> Ah interesting. I was 25% last time it was measured. Probably will be closer to 18% when I hit that weight goal. And the goal is a flat stomach, a flat chest would be a bit of a bummer but ok if the goal of having a flat stomach is achieved.
> 
> idk know so many wwe people had them though, so those are some sturdy boobs


You know what they say

Nothing ventured nothing gained


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## Worm Juice (Dec 14, 2020)

Ashi said:


> You know what they say
> 
> Nothing ventured nothing gained


Just don’t wanna create extra work for the cremation staff


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## Mider T (Dec 14, 2020)

Worm Juice said:


> Just don’t wanna create extra work for the cremation staff


You know what they say

You won't be able to join the reanimated zombie revolution if you aren't properly buried.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Worm Juice (Dec 14, 2020)

Mider T said:


> You know what they say
> 
> You won't be able to join the reanimated zombie revolution if you aren't properly buried.


Or being part of an artshow where you see decaying corpses with perfectly intact silicon coming out through the rotting skin.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Mider T (Dec 14, 2020)

Worm Juice said:


> Or being part of an artshow where you see decaying corpses with perfectly intact silicon coming out through the rotting skin.


They....they don't say that...


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## Magic (Dec 18, 2020)

She got sculpting done....


does it do anything?


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 20, 2020)

I will not have EMSculpt, for the present, since I need to save more money, but I defintely plan to have laser hair removal performed on my body, since I wish to save myself the time and effort of shaving and the monetary cost of purchasing shaving products. A clinic near where I live is currently offering laser hair removal at a 70% discount, but, even with that discount, treating my underarms will still cost only slightly above $1,000.00, so I need to decide if I can afford that; that discount will not be valid forever, so I am not certain if I can afford to miss such an opportunity; what does everyone else say about that?


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I will not have EMSculpt, for the present, since I need to save more money, but I defintely plan to have laser hair removal performed on my body, since I wish to save myself the time and effort of shaving and the monetary cost of purchasing shaving products. A clinic near where I live is currently offering laser hair removal at a 70% discount, but, even with that discount, treating my underarms will still cost only slightly above $1,000.00, so I need to decide if I can afford that; that discount will not be valid forever, so I am not certain if I can afford to miss such an opportunity; what does everyone else say about that?


I think it's a feminine thing for a man to do.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 20, 2020)

Mider T said:


> I think it's a feminine thing for a man to do.



First, in what way is laser hair removal "feminine," to use your word? Second, that is your opinion, and I am perfectly secure in my masculinity, so I feel no need to prove it by allowing my body hair to grow. Third, I believe that anyone who would say a thing such as that is either extremely rude and/or insecure about their own masculinity.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, in what way is laser hair removal "feminine," to use your word? Second, that is your opinion, and I am perfectly secure in my masculinity, so I feel no need to prove it by allowing my body hair to grow. Third, I believe that anyone who would say a thing such as that is either extremely rude and/or insecure about their own masculinity.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Nello (Dec 20, 2020)

Mider T said:


> I think it's a feminine thing for a man to do.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 20, 2020)

Did you know that high-heeled shoes were originally worn by men to make themselves appear to be taller? I will never wear such shoes, and I fail to see why they even exist; if I had sufficient influence, I would make efforts to eliminate high-heeled shoes from existence, since they are utterly pointless, as far as I am concerned.


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Did you know that high-heeled shoes were originally worn by men to make themselves appear to be taller? I will never wear such shoes, and I fail to see why they even exist; if I had sufficient influence, I would make efforts to eliminate high-heeled shoes from existence, since they are utterly pointless, as far as I am concerned.


friend I gifted you $2k red bottoms and this is how you show your appreciation?!. No wonder your parents are trying to push you out the house.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 20, 2020)

@Mider T, when have I ever shown a fondness for high-heeled shoes? How could you think that those were an appropriate gift, for me?


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> @Mider T, when have I ever shown a fondness for high-heeled shoes? How could you think that those were an appropriate gift, for me?


You want to remove all the hair from your body, so I figured you were into womanly things.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> @Mider T, if, by "into womanly things," you mean that I wish to be in a romantic relationship with a woman, you are correct, but, otherwise, that is a dangerous presumption to make.


Oh sorry, I thought your longing for soft, hairless skin and predilection for whining about your life screamed no Y-chromosome.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Nello (Dec 20, 2020)

@Mider T Between the grammar nazi thing, the constant jokes, and now this, you probably have some insecurities that you're trying to disprove. I don't know you and maybe i'm wrong. I'm just an asshole on a cartoon forum. But if this sounds familiar, you should talk to a professional. Whatever you do, picking on DDJ isn't going to help.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have a penis and testicles; those are all I need to be masculine.
> 
> Also, the fact that you believe that complaining is a feminine behavior is extremely sexist, and I am certain that most women would take great offense at it.


You should ask a woman.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2020)

Nello said:


> @Mider T Between the grammar nazi thing, the constant jokes, and now this, you probably have some insecurities that you're trying to disprove. I don't know you and maybe i'm wrong. I'm just an asshole on a cartoon forum. But if this sounds familiar, you should talk to a professional. Whatever you do, picking on DDJ isn't going to help.


I talk to professionals everyday, except amateur hour.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Nello (Dec 20, 2020)

Mider T said:


> I talk to professionals everyday, except amateur hour.


You're doing it again.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## wibisana (Dec 20, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, in what way is laser hair removal "feminine," to use your word? Second, that is your opinion, and I am perfectly secure in my masculinity, so I feel no need to prove it by allowing my body hair to grow. Third, I believe that anyone who would say a thing such as that is either extremely rude and/or insecure about their own masculinity.


1st,men (generally) dont spend that much for surgery, i mean you are a man, treat yourself buying nice suits, or sneakers or clothing that improve your appearance, spending on hair laser removal, body sclupting is big no move for me.

just buy some fancy razor like lawnmower 3000 on something like that. dude, dont spend money on "cosmetic" surgery.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## wibisana (Dec 20, 2020)

like if i get 1000-2000 for free and i can spend on whatever i want, i wont use it for cosmetic surgery/go to beauty salon for sure. buy some clothes, play some video game, buy some excercise equipment like stationary bike, threadmill, or weight exercises

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Nello (Dec 20, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> May I please quote this post in my signature?


Sorry but I feel that would come off as an insult. Thanks for asking.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 20, 2020)

Nello said:


> Sorry but I don't want it to be used as an insult like that. Thanks for asking.



I understand; thank you, very much, and you are welcome.


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## Mider T (Dec 21, 2020)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I understand; thank you, very much, and you are welcome.


I also would have told you no.

And wibisana makes an excellent point.


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## A R C H A (Dec 26, 2020)

The way I go about things is that if its not a house, business, or vehicle loan, just buy it cash.

I'm even spotty on vehicle loans. I wish I never financed my motorcycle. Not only because it turned out being more expensive than buying because of the BS fees that were added, but I paid the bike off in a few months, so I was better off paying cash anyway.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 26, 2020)

A R C H A said:


> The way I go about things is that if its not a house, business, or vehicle loan, just buy it cash.
> 
> I'm even spotty on vehicle loans. I wish I never financed my motorcycle. Not only because it turned out being more expensive than buying because of the BS fees that were added, but I paid the bike off in a few months, so I was better off paying cash anyway.



I paid the entire cost of my current car upfront, which I feel was a very impressive feat, so I frankly am wodnering why I am so hesitant about spending considerably less money on a fat-eliminating procedure; as important as it is to have a vehicle, is not my own physical health the most important thing in the world, to me?


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