# Super Saiyan God 2 Goku vs Beerus



## Thespacelord (Jun 8, 2015)

Is Revival of Frieza Goku stronger than Beerus yet?


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## King Kakarot (Jun 8, 2015)

He's stronger than Beerus at 70% according to V-jump with his new form and according to Whis Vegeta and Goku in their base forms could beat Beerus if they were to work together


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## Neo-jplaya (Jun 8, 2015)

well if you don't mind spoilers, let me put it this way:


Lakers Freeza was giving SSJG2 Goku a hard time before Vegeta in his SSJG2 form intervened, but in the end Gold Freeza still nuked the Earth.....until Whiskey said "Nope", rewound time, and had the SSJG2 kids blow him up.

Gold Freeza nearly shit his pants when he saw Beers was watching the fight, who gave zero fucks:



going by that, SSJG2 Goku is probably around 85-95% Beers' power.


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## King Kakarot (Jun 8, 2015)

Whis > Beerus>Golden Freeza> SSJG Goku> SSJG Vegeta

Goku and Vegeta teaming up(not via fusion) can beat anyone but Whis

Freeza being afraid of Beerus doesn't say much because Freeza can't sense him to begin with he doesn't have god ki


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jun 8, 2015)

No and he's honestly not even close. Whis claims that Goku and Vegeta have to team up just to fight evenly (not defeat) with Beerus meaning in a 1v1 they've got no chance against him.



> Whis thinks it is a shame they don’t get along, because if they would just team up they could actually fight evenly with Beerus.






Not to mention the revival of f book has a statement from Toriyama saying that Golden Freeza has absolutely no chance against Beerus no matter what he does and Golden Freeza at full power was a good deal stronger than SSJGSSJ Goku and Vegeta.

Quote below:



> Akira Toriyama’s Inside Story
> What’s the relationship between Beerus and Freeza?
> *Even Freeza is no match for the God of Destruction Beerus, no matter what he does! *Since they both destroy stuff, they got along reasonably well, but one time Freeza had his clock cleaned when he got carried away and made Beerus angry.




Thanks to Herms from Kanzenshuu for it.

So yea, Whis and Beerus are still significantly stronger than anyone else thus far.


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## King Kakarot (Jun 8, 2015)

That's obviously talking about pre golden Freeza


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## Alita (Jun 8, 2015)

Didn't super saiyan god goku basically have the upper hand against frieza until he got sneak attacked with that rifle beam?

And wasn't super saiyan god vegeta basically defeating frieza and about to kill him before he detonated the planet?

If so where are people getting golden frieza to be stronger than vegeta and goku in the god forms from then?


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jun 8, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> That's obviously talking about pre golden Freeza



Er no. There's absolutely no point in saying Freeza is no match for Beerus if he is indeed a match when in his golden form. The whole point of the statement is that Freeza is absolutely no match for Beerus period hence the "no matter what he does" part of the statement. Freeza can try everything he'd like and he'd still get steamrolled by Beerus. That's essentially what the statement is saying. 



Alita54 said:


> Didn't super saiyan god goku basically have the upper hand against frieza until he got sneak attacked with that rifle beam?



No. Goku was getting smacked around by Freeza until Freeza's power started to drain. Only then did Goku have the advantage, which led to the sneak attack on Goku.



> And wasn't super saiyan god vegeta basically defeating frieza and about to kill him before he detonated the planet?



Yes, but that was after Freeza's power had drained considerably and Goku had already dealt him some significant damage. At full power a fight between Freeza and Vegeta would've went the same way the fight between him and Goku went.



> If so where are people getting golden frieza to be stronger than vegeta and goku in the god forms from then?



Well there's your problem. None of what you referenced above is correct.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 8, 2015)

I'd put Blueberry Goku at 75% to maybe 80% of Beerus' power myself


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## Mickey Mouse (Jun 9, 2015)

dodo12 said:


> SSG2 would have been fine but noooo, gotta go for SSGSS
> Tune in next time on Dragon Ball Z, where Goku transcends *SSGSSJ* and goes Ultra Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku where his hair will turn Green.



 heh...that is alot of Ss...


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## trance (Jun 9, 2015)

He would be able to fight on par with and maybe edge out Beerus at 70% but Beerus at 100% is an entirely different story.


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## Xiammes (Jun 9, 2015)

Its amazing how SSJ went from a multiplier to a minor precent boost. I guess the minor percent boost is bigger then the previous jumps SSJ forms allowed.


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## Regicide (Jun 9, 2015)

Is that what we're calling the cyan form now?

Cause Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan will never not be a dumb name.


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## Xiammes (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm calling him blueberry goku.


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## Qinglong (Jun 9, 2015)

BLUEBERRY CENOKU WINS LOL


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## Matta Clatta (Jun 9, 2015)

Wait so Freeza can't even keep his new form indefinitely without his power draining?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jun 9, 2015)

Freeza's basically a Gymnast

Sure, they're strong, but they're hardly endurance Athletes


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 9, 2015)

Freeza has always had stamina problems when using his full power. Probably because he never trains.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jun 9, 2015)

Matta Clatta said:


> Wait so Freeza can't even keep his new form indefinitely without his power draining?



For the most part, yes. Goku and Vegeta suggest this can be corrected by training and getting used to the form, but since Freeza never bothered and went straight to Earth after gaining the form he ends up with that significant weakness.


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## KaiserWombat (Jun 9, 2015)

I actually really like that premise: "old habits die hard", as even when Freeza finally resolves him to undergo some hard work, he still lacks the lifetime of training experience drilled pratically genetically into the Saiyajin species and thus neglects to optimise the regulation of his newly obtained transformation, as his megalomania convinces him he can clean up shop long before stamina issues kick into place.

Makes for a nice historic callback, which aren't exactly dime-a-dozen in the Dragon Ball mythos and me being a stickler for continuity recognition.


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## Rivers (Jun 9, 2015)

Frieza's transformations reminds me of different generations of the Ipad


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## Vasto Lorde King (Jun 10, 2015)

wait a minute, golden frieza is still much weaker then beerus? how the fuck does that make sense. SSG goku in the first movie was already like 6/10ths of beerus's power. now he's a *supersaiyan god supersaiyan*, *heck even if this form didn't make him stronger but just as strong* this guy still trained with beerus and whis to gain mastery over the ssg transformation. And frieza was appearantly stronger then goku by a noticable amount. Yet frieza cannot do anything to beerus? unless 100 percent of beerus's power has like a completely different power scaling. as in his ki at 100 percent has like different qualities of the sorts. Appearantly frieza still shat his bricks when he saw beerus.

It would have been more logical to say that beerus was a 15 and whis like a 25. make golden frieza like an 8 or 9.

I guess you can argue that maby the skill level of beerus, the mastery over his ki starts to like get significantly better the more powerfull he gets. Maby he has some kind of full powered ssj like state.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jun 10, 2015)

Mill?n Vasto said:


> wait a minute, golden frieza is still much weaker then beerus? how the fuck does that make sense. SSG goku in the first movie was already like 6/10ths of beerus's power. now he's a *supersaiyan god supersaiyan*, *heck even if this form didn't make him stronger but just as strong* this guy still trained with beerus and whis to gain mastery over the ssg transformation. And frieza was appearantly stronger then goku by a noticable amount. Yet frieza cannot do anything to beerus? unless 100 percent of beerus's power has like a completely different power scaling. as in his ki at 100 percent has like different qualities of the sorts. Appearantly frieza still shat his bricks when he saw beerus.
> 
> It would have been more logical to say that beerus was a 15 and whis like a 25. make golden frieza like an 8 or 9.
> 
> I guess you can argue that maby the skill level of beerus, the mastery over his ki starts to like get significantly better the more powerfull he gets. Maby he has some kind of full powered ssj like state.



Power levels in DB do not scale linearly. Whis is a 15 while Beerus is a 10, which is only a bit above the gap between Beerus and Goku yet Whis can one-shot him with a single chop to the neck. 

So Golden Freeza can be an 8 and still be far far weaker than Beerus.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Jun 10, 2015)

Mill?n Vasto said:


> *I guess you can argue that maby the skill level of beerus*, the mastery over his ki starts to like get significantly better the more powerfull he gets. Maby he has some kind of full powered ssj like state.



Like the ability to react instinctively that Whis mentioned in the manga?


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## Vasto Lorde King (Jun 10, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Power levels in DB do not scale linearly. Whis is a 15 while Beerus is a 10, which is only a bit above the gap between Beerus and Goku yet Whis can one-shot him with a single chop to the neck.
> 
> So Golden Freeza can be an 8 and still be far far weaker than Beerus.



well i wouldn't say they do not scale lineary, but often when the relation in the relative ki of fighters is portrayed then yes often u will see it play out like that. for example oh shit, this guy has so much ki, or his ki is so large etc he'd tear us apart: raditz vs goku and piccolo, vegeta(ozauru) vs goku, goku vs ginyu force, frieza vs nearly the  entire z cast, frieza vs goku. ss1 goku vs frieza mostly. androids vs supersaiyans, supersaiyans and piccolo vs android 19 and 20. imperfect cell vs piccolo second route. semi perfect cell vs nearly everybody safe for vegeta and trunks, perfectl cell vs vegeta, etc.


Are they're exceptions sure. zarbon vs vegeta, nappa vs z fighters, nappa vs goku,  goku kaioken times 3 vs vegeta. only 25 percent difference in power. zarbon and dordoria vs vegeta, vegeta vs recoome,  sure, they exist. but often you will notice that most of those not linear scalings are within the saiyan saga and most  beginning to mid of the frieza saga. but as the series continue you can pretty much safely assume that the relation between ki becomes more and more linear.

Do i call your bullshit? no heck no. I understand where you are coming from. But i think beerus prolly either has a way to increase the quality of his ki, or maby this guy can pull of a nappa, and like resurface his ki, doubling it's effectivness pretty much. I don't think inherintly has constantly different properties or something. i think it can be applied differently.

edit: androids don't have ki. but going by 17 stating that he didn't even use half of his power. and dr gero stating that android 19 needs to recharge his power. makes me think they have something similar to ki, only pure natural.

edit 2: actually i heard it has been stated that ssgsj>70 percent beerus. this pretty much makes the gap between frieza and beerus himself even smaller.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jun 10, 2015)

Mill?n Vasto said:


> well i wouldn't say they do not scale lineary, but often when the relation in the relative ki of fighters is portrayed then yes often u will see it play out like that. for example oh shit, this guy has so much ki, or his ki is so large etc he'd tear us apart: raditz vs goku and piccolo, vegeta(ozauru) vs goku, goku vs ginyu force, frieza vs nearly the  entire z cast, frieza vs goku. ss1 goku vs frieza mostly. androids vs supersaiyans, supersaiyans and piccolo vs android 19 and 20. imperfect cell vs piccolo second route. semi perfect cell vs nearly everybody safe for vegeta and trunks, perfectl cell vs vegeta, etc.
> 
> 
> Are they're exceptions sure. zarbon vs vegeta, nappa vs z fighters, nappa vs goku,  goku kaioken times 3 vs vegeta. only 25 percent difference in power. zarbon and dordoria vs vegeta, vegeta vs recoome,  sure, they exist. but often you will notice that most of those not linear scalings are within the saiyan saga and most  beginning to mid of the frieza saga. but as the series continue you can pretty much safely assume that the relation between ki becomes more and more linear.
> ...



It's clear that the power levels do not scale linearly because if they did then you'd be right and it wouldn't make much sense with Beerus being that much stronger than Freeza.

If Whis whose gap over Beerus is only a bit higher than the gap between Beerus and Goku can one-shot Beerus with a mere chop to the neck then it's clear that the these power levels do not scale linearly. 

That means that a 30-40% gap (which would be the gap between Beerus and SSJG Goku in BoGs) is significantly  higher than one would think it would be. So Freeza could easily be an 8 to Beerus' 10 and still be far weaker, which is exactly what the movie indicates seeing as the movie and a statement from Toriyama both suggest Freeza is absolutely no match for Beerus. 

I don't think it has anything to do with ki. Just that the power levels do not scale linearly. That's evident with all the examples you listed where power levels were still a thing in DB.

Hell, Whis even claims that it would take Goku AND Vegeta just to fight with Beerus evenly despite the fact that Beerus only has, at best, a 30% gap on them. That pretty much means that 30% is pretty huge despite it not looking like it may be.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Jun 10, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> It's clear that the power levels do not scale linearly because if they did then you'd be right and it wouldn't make much sense with Beerus being that much stronger than Freeza.
> 
> If Whis whose gap over Beerus is only a bit higher than the gap between Beerus and Goku can one-shot Beerus with a mere chop to the neck then it's clear that the these power levels do not scale linearly.
> 
> ...



No no no. you can not just say it's clear that powerlevels do not scale lineary while i just mentioned quite a lot, and i mean quite lot of examples in which the powerscale is indeed linear. infact more so then then the exceptions in which i admitted that they aren't nessisariy lineary scaled. what happend to those examples huh? you glossed them over. it may very well be that the quality of ki is different, or that ki is applied differently in some case. ie nappa surfacing his ki around his body. To say that it's clear is way to premature. heck. the reason could be something else at this point in time.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jun 10, 2015)

Mill?n Vasto said:


> No no no. you can not just say it's clear that powerlevels do not scale lineary while i just mentioned quite a lot, and i mean quite lot of examples in which the powerscale is indeed linear. infact more so then then the exceptions in which i admitted that they aren't nessisariy lineary scaled. what happend to those examples huh? you glossed them over. it may very well be that the quality of ki is different, or that ki is applied differently in some case. ie nappa surfacing his ki around his body. To say that it's clear is way to premature. heck. the reason could be something else at this point in time.



Except you can't tell how power levels scale past the Freeza saga considering power levels are made completely redundant by then meaning there's no way to tell how much stronger one fighter is than the other by pure numbers anymore. 

All the times before that it was made clear that the power levels did not scale linearly. 

Either way, it doesn't even matter. It's a pointless argument. At the end of the day Beerus is still far stronger than Freeza regardless. All that's being argued now is semantics.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Jun 10, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Except you can't tell how power levels scale past the Freeza saga considering power levels are made completely redundant by then meaning there's no way to tell how much stronger one fighter is than the other by pure numbers anymore.
> 
> All the times before that it was made clear that the power levels did not scale linearly.
> 
> Either way, it doesn't even matter. It's a pointless argument. At the end of the day Beerus is still far stronger than Freeza regardless. All that's being argued now is semantics.



Sure you cannot accurately in the sense of 100 percent accuracy tell how powerlevels excatly scale past frieza saga but you sure as hell can make on heck of an accurate guess. if goku says that superbuu>>>>>him as a ssj3>>>>>>>ssj1 goten then you sure as hell can say there is a massive difference in thier levels of ki right? it'd be a bit cheap to throw the whole thing away right? second of all you attribute the scaling to a non linear one rather then it simply bieng the case of each case having another explanation for such differences. and that the quantity of ki hasn't actually changed. that's what i take issue with.

then there is also quite a few instances in which powerlevels do accuractely scale as how they are portrayed.

raditz vs goku and piccolo(case of ha ha ha, my powerlevel is so high, i can destroy you)

tien vs master roshi 180 vs 139(20ish percent difference in power) roshi held is own(stated in the evoltution of goku's power)

ginyu in goku's body vs gohan and krillin(powerlevel of around 14.000 for gohan unlock potential) and 13.000 for krillin. was en even fight

u can srap the fights of the ginyu force almost in full, no official powerlevel given. except for most of the ginyu force members. this leaves only vegeta's fight against cui,dodoria and zarbon. nappa's fight against goku and piccolo. and goku vs vegeta. like u can pretty much call the odds even here.

but still, the later sagas pretty much makes it more and more linear with the impications given


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## hammer (Jun 10, 2015)

when did goku become ssgssj2?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 10, 2015)

new movie

it's just another name for Bluper Saiyan


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## hammer (Jun 10, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> new movie
> 
> it's just another name for Bluper Saiyan



I thought blueberry cyan was ssgssj1


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## Iwandesu (Jun 10, 2015)

ssjg is the ssjgssj1
ssjgssj is the ssjgssj2
because why not


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jun 10, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Power levels in DB do not scale linearly. Whis is a 15 while Beerus is a 10, which is only a bit above the gap between Beerus and Goku yet Whis can one-shot him with a single chop to the neck.
> 
> So Golden Freeza can be an 8 and still be far far weaker than Beerus.



He hit him in a pressure point when he was distracted. Its almost exactly the same thing Vegeta did to Goku while majiln, and they were evenly matched.
These aren't powerlevels, they are pretty concrete comparisons of how strong each one is
how this compares to Golden Freeza and BueKu i can't say as i haven't seen the movie.


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## The Runner (Jun 10, 2015)

Whis himself stated that if Goku and Vegeta worked together, they could have beaten Golden Freeza.

He also said that they could have fought on par with Beerus if they worked together too.

So it's pretty layed out that SSJGSSJ is still quite weaker than Bills.


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## hammer (Jun 11, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> ssjg is the ssjgssj1
> ssjgssj is the ssjgssj2
> because why not



we need a bio broly lsssjsjsjsjsjsjsjsssssjg3


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## trance (Jun 11, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> It's clear that the power levels do not scale linearly because if they did then you'd be right and it wouldn't make much sense with Beerus being that much stronger than Freeza.
> 
> If Whis whose gap over Beerus is only a bit higher than the gap between Beerus and Goku can one-shot Beerus with a mere chop to the neck then it's clear that the these power levels do not scale linearly.
> 
> ...



Yea, this. What seems to be a small percentage difference can actually equate to a massive difference in strength. 

Before his final power-up in the Dark Tournament, Yusuke was equal to or stronger than 80% Younger Toguro but once Younger Toguro turned it up to 100%, Yusuke was getting effortlessly smacked arounds. Even a "Reigan" at point-blank range was completely no sold by him. 

At his peak, Vader would encompass 80% of Sidious' strength - as of RotJ - but it was clearly demonstrated that Vader was no match at all for Sidious, even with the help of someone roughly equal to him in strength (Luke). 

So, yea. Even if Freeza was equal to like, 70 or 80% Beerus, that doesn't at all mean he could compare to 100% Beerus.


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## xmysticgohanx (Jun 11, 2015)

Well tbh it doesn't make sense at all. Blueberry Goku is > 70% Beerus according to V-Jump. According to Toriyama Freeza would get stomped by Beerus and according to the movie Freeza > Goku. But somehow Goku and Vegeta can have an equal fight with Beerus?

Beerus = 10
Freeza > Goku > 7
Goku > Vegeta

There's no way to fit Freeza getting stomped and Goku and Vegeta somehow tieing with Beerus when teamed up. Butta and Jheese, both having PLs around 40k, were getting merked by Goku and according to Ginyu only a PL of 60k would be needed for that. So a 1.5x difference is enough to stomp 2 people at the same time. Not that it really matters tho because DB is cool


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## Saitou Hajime (Jun 12, 2015)

Vegeta was stomping Dodoria with just a 9% gap between them. At 30% you could probably kill them by sneezing.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jun 12, 2015)

Star Busting? Check!

Time Travel? Check

DBZ just went on a fuckton huge of a powerup.!

I hope we get to see omnipotence next.


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## Veikuri (Jun 12, 2015)

The new movie is out with subs yet?


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## AgentAAA (Jun 12, 2015)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Star Busting? Check!
> 
> Time Travel? Check
> 
> ...



starbusting ain't a DBZ powerup. BoG top-tiers are already SS level anyways.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jun 12, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> starbusting ain't a DBZ powerup. BoG top-tiers are already SS level anyways.



I seem to recall encountering plenty of butthurt anti-DBZ racists who keeps on denying star-busting as a feat in DBZ.. I bet they are really salty right now.
Not to mention that time-travel to the same timeline part. 
Take that DBZ haterz!


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## Red Angel (Jun 12, 2015)

> I seem to recall encountering plenty of butthurt *anti-DBZ racists* who keeps on denying star-busting as a feat in DBZ





Did... did you seriously compare debating against DBZ (none of us are really haters as far as I'm aware but that's another story) to racism? Are you for real right now? 

Is this 2009 again?


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## Veikuri (Jun 12, 2015)

Skarbrand said:


> Did... did you seriously compare debating against DBZ (none of us are really haters as far as I'm aware but that's another story) to racism? Are you for real right now?
> 
> Is this 2009 again?



What do you expect from DB fanboys?


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## Red Angel (Jun 12, 2015)

Veikuri said:


> What do you expect from DB fanboys?



I know it's not exactly anything new but, still

Then again, we're all apparently part of some Western Fiction Illuminati who despises animu and wants to downgrade it


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## tonpa (Jun 12, 2015)

All those saiyans monkeys can go blow themselves up. I am glad planet veggie got blown up by frieza.  Hail Frieza Race The one true race!


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