# The Old Kages vs The Sinister Six



## Heavenly King (Nov 10, 2011)

Fourth Kazekage  Mū Third Raikage and Second Mizukage



Sinister Six Doctor Octopus Mysterio Electro Sandman Vulture Hobgoblin

This battle takes place in ruins of Asgard

Both Teams are 100 yards away from each other and They have info on each other abilities


No Blood Lust


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## CrazyMoronX (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm not sure how they'd kill Sandman, but Mizukage should be able to troll his ass.


Raikaggenaut solos the rest of these pussies.


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## Axlk (Nov 10, 2011)

maybe changing the hobgoblin for the rhino would be better,if the actual doc octopus had prep they take it


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 10, 2011)

so umm Doc oc who's arms are fast enough to catch spidey off gaurd..and friggen hobgoblin are having problems with these guys?

lolwut?


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## Heavenly King (Nov 10, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so umm Doc oc who's arms are fast enough to catch spidey off gaurd..and friggen hobgoblin are having problems with these guys?
> 
> lolwut?



dr oc's arms can move at a speed of ninety feet per second and strike with the force of a jackhammer.

he did beat on the hulk





this is when he had his adamantium harness


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## Lucifeller (Nov 10, 2011)

Between Electro and Sandman they should beat them all. If Mizukage musters up water, he's just ASKING to be electrocuted, and Sandman can troll the other two by himself.

(that's not even considering Electro can muster up enough juice to overheat Iron Man's old MkII armor... the only reason why he jobs to Spidey is because he hugs the idiot ball like it's a lover. Take CIS and PIS out and he's a monster)


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## CrazyMoronX (Nov 10, 2011)

Raikage is immune to electricity and lightspeed transfer. They can never hurt him.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 10, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so umm Doc oc who's arms are fast enough to catch spidey off gaurd..and friggen hobgoblin are having problems with these guys?
> 
> lolwut?



Don't know about hobgoblin (I've only read a few old issues with him in them), but Doc Oc would get killed by Raikage's father. Doc Ock can't hurt the man once his shroud goes up, he doesn't have the strength to easily restrain the man, even restrained raikage's finger poke likely has the range to reach, and it just a matter of time before oldman raikage gets around the arms.

On topic, Electro is really quite overpowered. Unless Electro is blitzed in the opening, he'd have the capability to take out everyone with an unleash Aoe blast. 

Sandman could probably be taken out by Muu in a one on one fight though.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 10, 2011)

I think the suit gives the hobgoblin superior strength that can match petes not sure on reaction time. Doc Ock can get the drop on Parker with his arms he can get the drop on every one here


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## Lucifeller (Nov 11, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Raikage is immune to electricity and lightspeed transfer. They can never hurt him.



Even assuming that to be the case, he sure isn't immune to having the flesh flayed off his bones by a localized sandstorm, and he can't do a thing to Sandman in return.

Seriously though, Sandman is such a broken son of a bitch. The only thing that keeps him from being an A list supervillain is the fact he's, fundamentally, a decent person - of the Sinister Six, I'm pretty sure he's the only one who always refused killing people. He's not above hurting them badly if they get in his way, but he's never killed anyone. Spidey even mentions that.

We do get to see exactly what chances Spiderman would have against a truly homicidal Sandman, btw. Go read Marvel Zombies Return and note how many panels Spidey lasts when Sandman's actually trying to KILL him rather than just beat him up. Hint: it's less than two pages.


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## ZergKage (Nov 11, 2011)

Whoopity-doo, Sandman gets countered the same way the 4th Kaze was blocking attacks from Gaara, except this time he's not just reacting to attacks. 

And who gives a shit if Doc Ock hits Spiderman 1 out of every 100 attempts when he starts out 100 yards away from the people he's fighting. 

Why post pictures of Doc Ock with adamantium arms when they're not in this fight.

What the hell, these guys have a hard enough time fighting Spiderman, one person, and they're now supposed to be good enough to fight these guys?


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Nov 11, 2011)

Someone is mad.


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## Lucifeller (Nov 11, 2011)

ZergKage said:


> Whoopity-doo, Sandman gets countered the same way the 4th Kaze was blocking attacks from Gaara, except this time he's not just reacting to attacks.
> 
> And who gives a shit if Doc Ock hits Spiderman 1 out of every 100 attempts when he starts out 100 yards away from the people he's fighting.
> 
> ...



I haven't seen Gaara shove his sand INTO someone's mouth and force himself down their throats until they graphically fucking explode from the inside out, finding themselves minus the entire torso, abdomen and lower jaw. Just saying.

More importantly, Gaara himself can't turn to sand. Sandman does, and is essentially untouchable at that point - scattering him just pisses him off.

As for Electro, quite frankly the only reason he loses to Spidey is PIS. By all rights he should kill him with utter ease every time. Barring PIS there's nothing keeping Electro from popping Spiderman like a tick. But it wouldn't do for Marvel to have one of their most loved heroes lose and die so unceremoniously.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 11, 2011)

ShikiYakumo said:


> Someone is mad.



I like the implication that parker isn't a kage level opponent as well


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## Banhammer (Nov 11, 2011)

the new hobgoblin solos with madness inducing laugh


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## CrazyMoronX (Nov 11, 2011)

Lucifeller said:


> Even assuming that to be the case, he sure isn't immune to having the flesh flayed off his bones by a localized sandstorm, and he can't do a thing to Sandman in return.
> 
> Seriously though, Sandman is such a broken son of a bitch. The only thing that keeps him from being an A list supervillain is the fact he's, fundamentally, a decent person - of the Sinister Six, I'm pretty sure he's the only one who always refused killing people. He's not above hurting them badly if they get in his way, but he's never killed anyone. Spidey even mentions that.
> 
> We do get to see exactly what chances Spiderman would have against a truly homicidal Sandman, btw. Go read Marvel Zombies Return and note how many panels Spidey lasts when Sandman's actually trying to KILL him rather than just beat him up. Hint: it's less than two pages.


A sandstorm would be like a summer's breeze to the Raikaggenaut. Seriously, what are its feats?

I do admit that Sandman is virtually unbeatable here, but I do think that any of the Kages can get away from his attacks. It'd be a draw with the possibility of Muu being able to kill Sandman with a large enough Jinton.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Nov 11, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I like the implication that parker isn't a kage level opponent as well




Spider man is it's just he's not that hard to beat for some characters then again he isn't a high tier in marvel anyway.


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## Lucifeller (Nov 11, 2011)

By the way, very relevant. Watch it, it spoils a moment in Marvel Zombies Return:


*Spoiler*: __ 











*Spoiler*: __ 



And yes, he forced his body THROUGH the mask's fabric without breaking it. How's that for control?


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## ZergKage (Nov 11, 2011)

ShikiYakumo said:
			
		

> Someone is mad.



It has nothing to do with being mad and everything to do with this LOLITONLYTAKESTWOMEMBERSBECAUSETHEYRESOBADASS nonsense. At the least people could actually pretend this is a real fight and try to think up a legit way for the S6 to win, i wouldnt fault anyone for that.



			
				Lucifeller said:
			
		

> I haven't seen Gaara shove his sand INTO someone's mouth and force himself down their throats until they graphically fucking explode from the inside out, finding themselves minus the entire torso, abdomen and lower jaw. Just saying.
> 
> More importantly, Gaara himself can't turn to sand. Sandman does, and is essentially untouchable at that point - scattering him just pisses him off.
> 
> As for Electro, quite frankly the only reason he loses to Spidey is PIS. By all rights he should kill him with utter ease every time. Barring PIS there's nothing keeping Electro from popping Spiderman like a tick. But it wouldn't do for Marvel to have one of their most loved heroes lose and die so unceremoniously.



I haven't seen Gaara throw a right hook, must mean he cant do it. Just saying.

Kaze uses Gold dust to block him like he did with Gaara's sand, Mizu uses some suiton or whatever oil like liquid he was using to make Gaara's sand useless, Muu uses Dust release or they use Electro to turn him into glass.

40+ years of losing to someone is PIS, good to know. 



			
				The Immortal WatchDog said:
			
		

> I like the implication that parker isn't a kage level opponent as well



I like the implication that Spiderman is a kage level opponent that regularly beats these guys, therefore implying that four kage level opponents will make this easy.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Nov 11, 2011)

ZergKage said:


> It has nothing to do with being mad and everything to do with this LOLITONLYTAKESTWOMEMBERSBECAUSETHEYRESOBADASS nonsense. At the least people could actually pretend this is a real fight and try to think up a legit way for the S6 to win, i wouldnt fault anyone for that.



So basically your mad.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 11, 2011)

ZergKage said:


> I like the implication that Spiderman is a kage level opponent that regularly beats these guys, therefore implying that four kage level opponents will make this easy.



considering the only reason why Pete's lost to kage level guys in the last few months is because he lost his precog (though training with Shang Chi means he's probably back up there) and at least two of these guys can give him physical issues..yeah it's wonky to assume merely because their spiderman foes they'd loose or something


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## Banhammer (Nov 11, 2011)

People do understand that current Electro is an electricity logia, current sandman can spread his counsciousness throughout immense masses and generate armies of himself, current hobgoblin can give people brain aneurisms by laughing and the new octavius controls nukes and an army of giant lovecraftian robots, yes?


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## Banhammer (Nov 11, 2011)

the only new thing vulture does though is spit acid through his face. No one cares.

But really, electro points at raikage, drains and then dumps it on the others.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 11, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> the only new thing vulture does though is spit acid through his face. No one cares.
> 
> But really, electro points at raikage, drains and then dumps it on the others.



Vulture lost his life sucking powers?


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## Banhammer (Nov 11, 2011)

would they have been useful in a fight against zombies?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 11, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> would they have been useful in a fight against zombies?



aren't Edo matches banned? wouldn't they be alive?


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## Banhammer (Nov 11, 2011)

God knows what their non edo durability is.

But if they're not then electro solos. Specially when a low level thunder person like Raikage is also in the match


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## Lucifeller (Nov 11, 2011)

ZergKage said:


> 40+ years of losing to someone is PIS, good to know.



That's because it IS. Spiderman never actually manages to defeat Sandman or Electro cleanly, he always has to cook up a trap because his natural powers just plain don't cut it against them. The few times he went up against them in a straight fight, he lost and had to rethink his approach.

And the scan above accurately describes approximately how long Spiderman would last if Sandman stopped caring and became an actual homicidal maniac. The guy can scatter his body on a large enough area that even spidersense won't matter, and has enough fine control over his body to force individual grains of sand through fabric (the only way in which he could cram himself down Spidey's throat without breaking his mask).

Against that kind of power and control, simple web only works if Sandman is hugging the idiot ball, and some writers even admitted that logically Sandman should win. It's pure CIS and PIS when he does the exact things Spidey needs him to do to win.


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## Russian Kalashnikov (Nov 11, 2011)

Lucifeller said:


> I haven't seen Gaara shove his sand INTO someone's mouth and force himself down their throats until they graphically fucking explode from the inside out, finding themselves minus the entire torso, abdomen and lower jaw. Just saying.


Gaara uses desert coffin. The difference is that pouring a ton worth of sand through someone's mouth and covering them with it, is that it will probably take more than 10 minutes to get it through the victim's throat and at that point he has probably suffocated as well. Pressure all the same.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I like the implication that parker isn't a kage level opponent as well


No good sir, no! Spider-man is not kage-level. Not by a long shot.

Let's do some quick comparisons between the 3rd Raikage and Spider-man.

Speed:

The 3rd dodged 2 Rasenshurikens, point blank. These have been calculated to be mach 5.3+.

Spider-man dodges bullets through his precognition. So when he moves a 1/10th of the distance a mach 5 bullet his moving, he's still subsonic. Spider-man never dodges bullets an inch from his face, it doesn't happen.

Durability:

The 3rd was thrown into a cellular-level stone-shredding mayhem and didn't receive a scratch. It's also implied that he can travel at light speed without taking noticeable damage from the air resistance.

Spider-man can't take a bullet.

Strength:

The 3rd runs through thick stone-walls and magically enhanced rubber-walls without any noticeable resistance.

Spider-man puts an effort into punching holes through concrete walls.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 11, 2011)

Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No good sir, no! Spider-man is not kage-level. Not by a long shot.



umm yes he is the fact that he;s kicked the shit out of the current Raikage and Itachi in past threads only proves that



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Let's do some quick comparisons between the 3rd Raikage and Spider-man.



is this gonna be one of those "I cite low end showings while hyping up the naruto top tier?" i hope not



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Speed:
> 
> The 3rd dodged 2 Rasenshurikens, point blank. These have been calculated to be mach 5.3+.



....I was wrong it seems errmm Pete's aim dodging thousands of rounds of machine fun fire from all angles...having your precog allow you to make mid air course correction to dodge lasers fired at you from behind..and from every single angle in a square room.



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Spider-man dodges bullets through his precognition. So when he moves a 1/10th of the distance a mach 5 bullet his moving, he's still subsonic. Spider-man never dodges bullets an inch from his face, it doesn't happen.



through precog? umm no even without precog he utterly shits all over high level bullet timers like Shang Chi and Daredevil both of whom have shown to be able to bitch slap away ammo point blank..even redirect it into lethally hitting people

shang has wonderwomen style gauntlet parried and Clark is superior to him even without precog

swear to god every one underestimates A list steet levelers I mean seriously Robin freaken Robin can point blank deflect a few dozens arrows fired at him in the span of a few seconds while balancing on a bullet train..and you think guys like Parker who make people who deflect bullets fired at them perfectly aiming them back into peoples skulls even when having his precog miffed is gonna be impressed by Naruto speeds? the weakest verse in the HST?



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Durability:
> 
> The 3rd was thrown into a cellular-level stone-shredding mayhem and didn't receive a scratch. It's also implied that he can travel at light speed without taking noticeable damage from the air resistance.



Pete's webbing has restrained The Thing..He craps all over the third raikage in every way durability strength speed everything he craps on him.

it's briefly held the Hulk and Juggernaut for a few crucial seconds...there is absolutely no way he can't wall Raikage up for a ten count



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Spider-man can't take a bullet.



and Superman got knocked out by a fence post and Batman by a fat dork with a keyboard low end showings don't count 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Strength:
> 
> The 3rd runs through thick stone-walls and magically enhanced rubber-walls without any noticeable resistance.
> 
> Spider-man puts an effort into punching holes through concrete walls.



Spidermans demolished buildings in an emo rage..He's tossed around forklifts and matched some one who could football punt Wolverine through a few floors

the only advantages the Raikage has over him are durability and strength and that's not enough


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## Russian Kalashnikov (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> umm yes he is the fact that he;s kicked the shit out of the current Raikage and Itachi in past threads only proves that


No. The result of a thread is the general consensus at a given time and can't be used for evidence. There may be evidence in the thread that may be used, in which case you should be reusing it and not vaguely redirect me to some thread you're not even having the decency to link to.

I could further go on explain how both the Raikage, and Itachi would best Spider-man separately, but that's another topic.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> is this gonna be one of those "I cite low end showings while hyping up the naruto top tier?" i hope not


Read the post you're replying to before replying to it. Don't reply to something you haven't read just to disagree with each point as they come. Even if I am wrong, there may be certain valid points that shouldn't be dismissed.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> ....I was wrong it seems errmm Pete's aim dodging thousands of rounds of machine fun fire from all angles...


Show me.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> through precog? umm no even without precog he utterly shits all over high level bullet timers like Shang Chi and Daredevil both of whom have shown to be able to bitch slap away ammo point blank..even redirect it into lethally hitting people


Shang Chi doesn't have any super powers and Daredevil reacts to sound.

That being said, I take it that you have no evidence for Spider-man's speed.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> shang has wonderwomen style gauntlet parried and Clark is superior to him even without precog


Aim-dodging.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Pete's webbing has restrained The Thing..He craps all over the third raikage in every way durability strength speed everything he craps on him.


This has absolutely nothing to do with Spider-man's durability. Address what you're replying to.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it's briefly held the Hulk and Juggernaut for a few crucial seconds...there is absolutely no way he can't wall Raikage up for a ten count


It has briefly held Scorpion, Kraven the hunter, and the Lizard as well. It has nothing to do with what you're replying to.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and Superman got knocked out by a fence post and Batman by a fat dork with a keyboard low end showings don't count


This thread has nothing, zero, nitch, to do with DC.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Spidermans demolished buildings in an emo rage..He's tossed around forklifts and matched some one who could football punt Wolverine through a few floors


But he has never run through 15 feet thick walls of stone.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> the only advantages the Raikage has over him are durability and strength and that's not enough


Once you show me Spider-man dodging a mach 5 bullet point blank, then we can talk about he being in the same speed tier as the Raikage.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Nov 12, 2011)

Oh look another mad person.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> ....I was wrong it seems errmm Pete's *aim dodging thousands of rounds* of machine fun fire from all angles...having your precog allow you to make mid air course correction *to dodge lasers* fired at you from behind..and from every single angle in a square room.



B1 aim dodging is still aim dodging. if you meant bullet-timing say it. 
B2 prove the lasers were real lasers. prove spider-man dodged them after they were fired.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> through precog? umm no even without precog he utterly shits *all over high level bullet timers like Shang Chi and Daredevil* both of whom have shown to be able to bitch slap away ammo point blank..even redirect it into lethally hitting people



DD has kept up with spider-man enough to not get blitzed by him in CQC (though he admit it was hard as hell). whenever they've scuffled Spider-man isn't shitting over DD in speed either. Never read anything with shang chi.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> shang has wonderwomen style gauntlet parried *and Clark is superior to him* even without precog



Superman is FTL.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> swear to god every one underestimates A list steet levelers I mean seriously Robin freaken Robin can point blank deflect a few dozens arrows fired at him in the span of a few seconds while balancing on a bullet train..and you think guys like Parker who make people who deflect bullets fired at them perfectly aiming them back into peoples skulls even when having his precog miffed is gonna be impressed by Naruto speeds? the weakest verse in the HST?



deflecting stuff back at wtv target is inane skill, whereas being fast enough to react is the speed portion. the rest is off topic.




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Pete's webbing has restrained The Thing..He craps all over the third raikage in every way durability strength speed everything he craps on him.



your thought process is confusing me here. You cite spider-man's webbing being really powerful in answer to someone stating raikage is more durable then Spider-man ( they citing the Frs tanking). Post any scan of Spider-man tanking something on the level of FRS.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it's briefly held the Hulk and Juggernaut for a few crucial seconds...there is absolutely no way he can't wall Raikage up for a ten count



on the webbing..lol. Venom, Black tarantula, the Lizard, Kraven, Doppleganger, and others of a similar level, consistently ripe themselves free from Spider-man's webbing. Spidey needs to be blasting it out for a lonnnnnnggg time for it to hold anyoen stronger. And while we're on the webbing, how fast is it? It's not as fast as Spider-man, I'm sure. So how fast is it? Sound speed? Hypersonic? Lightspeed? How fast? Any clear instances showing its speed, since you're basically claiming it gurantees spider-man victory here.




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and Superman got knocked out by a fence post and Batman by a fat dork with a keyboard low end showings don't count



Pointless reference. Spider-man isn't bullet-proof and you know it.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Spidermans demolished buildings in an emo rage..He's tossed around forklifts and matched some one who could football punt Wolverine through a few floors
> 
> the only advantages the Raikage has over him are durability and strength and that's not enough



Strength enough to keep on running like Venom does through generic spray amount of webbing, and durable enough to not blink from spider-man punch. Speed i'm not going to bother with, although I don't think there is any proof Raikage's father is as fast as him. He didn't seem as much a speed beast as his son, or even Bee...


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 12, 2011)

Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No. The result of a thread is the general consensus at a given time and can't be used for evidence. There may be evidence in the thread that may be used, in which case you should be reusing it and not vaguely redirect me to some thread you're not even having the decency to link to.
> 
> I could further go on explain how both the Raikage, and Itachi would best Spider-man separately, but that's another topic.
> 
> ...



DD has, on rare occasion after having been made loopy from something, been shown "reacting to sound" only once the bullet already left its chamber. He's not slow, at all.  Also, shang chi having no super powers doesn't matter, if he deflect bullets he deflects bullets. Say what you will about Spider-man, but be weary of the red devil.


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## Russian Kalashnikov (Nov 12, 2011)

By the way, wasn't Quicksilver only mach 1 in the early days and still out-sped Spider-man? While the Ultimate version outran radio-waves and ran at mach 10 as a teenager, the 616 version is still rather slow. According to marvel.com 616 Quicksilver's max speed is mach 5.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No. The result of a thread is the general consensus at a given time and can't be used for evidence. There may be evidence in the thread that may be used, in which case you should be reusing it and not vaguely redirect me to some thread you're not even having the decency to link to.



umm no precedence matters in vs debating 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> I could further go on explain how both the Raikage, and Itachi would best Spider-man separately, but that's another topic.



it wouldnt be the first time



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Read the post you're replying to before replying to it. Don't reply to something you haven't read just to disagree with each point as they come. Even if I am wrong, there may be certain valid points that shouldn't be dismissed.



i did read it I'm honestly distressed at the things that need to be rehashed every few months 




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Show me.



that parkers[/URL] capable of bullet timing? 

or the many many round stuff?  




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Shang Chi doesn't have any super powers



and please oh please don't cite a databook or marvels website or their database those are notoriously inaccurate 

i'm just curious here you claiming a guy who fucks up Doombots isn't superhuman? Or beating on Asgardian trolls?



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> That being said, I take it that you have no evidence for Spider-man's speed.



I've got a number of decades of the guys bullet timing feats 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Aim-dodging.



via precog with out looking at it- Raikage cannot touch him period 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> This has absolutely nothing to do with Spider-man's durability. Address what you're replying to.



Pete's durability sucks compared to the Raikage but with the webbing that hardly matters



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> It has briefly held Scorpion, Kraven the hunter, and the Lizard as well. It has nothing to do with what you're replying to.



 and you feel gramps can break his webbing? Yeah no..



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> This thread has nothing, zero, nitch, to do with DC.



I'm just going to go ahead and assume you completely missed the point as opposed to being deliberately obtuse. The point of my bringing that up is low end showings..do not count they are not valid evidence



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> But he has never run through 15 feet thick walls of stone.



no I'm sure Gramps exceeds him in strength but he's not touching him and Pete can take him the hell out



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Once you show me Spider-man dodging a mach 5 bullet point blank, then we can talk about he being in the same speed tier as the Raikage.



or I could just point out all the times he's lighting timed 






ShikiYakumo said:


> Oh look another mad person.



Cthulu is here..so it's two mad people

apparently Naruto characters that aren't bijuu are physically stronger than Venom


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Sabertooth vs the third Raikage


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## Cocoa (Nov 12, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> People do understand that current Electro is an electricity logia, current sandman can spread his counsciousness throughout immense masses and generate armies of himself, current hobgoblin can give people brain aneurisms by laughing and the new octavius controls nukes and an army of giant lovecraftian robots, yes?


This discussion should have ended after this post. Even if I use feats from TAS Electro can still solo.


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## Level7N00b (Nov 12, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> God knows what their non edo durability is.
> 
> But if they're not then electro solos. Specially when a low level thunder person like Raikage is also in the match



I always find myself coming up short on Electro, what can he do again?


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## Cocoa (Nov 12, 2011)

I'll see him if I can get my hands on his TAS feats.


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## Russian Kalashnikov (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> umm no precedence matters in vs debating


No it doesn't. Facts and evidence are what matters.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it wouldnt be the first time


It would. I haven't debated with you on said topic before.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> i did read it I'm honestly distressed at the things that need to be rehashed every few months


Don't lie. No you didn't read it. Because if that was the case your reply wouldn't have been:

"Is this gonna be one of those "I cite low end showings while hyping up the naruto top tier?" i hope not"

Followed by:

"....I was wrong it seems errmm"

If you've read the reply before you replied to it you'd at some level know what I had said.

This isn't a "no u" contest. If you're wrong or you've lied, then admit to it and move on. This isn't about your ego.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that parkers[/URL] capable of bullet timing?
> 
> or the many many round stuff?


That's not what I asked for. I asked for evidence of Spider-man "aim dodging thousands of rounds of machine fun fire from all angles".

When I ask you for evidence to back up a certain claim, than I want the exact page you're referring to. If you can't post evidence, then admit that you lied and then provide a new argument with evidence.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> URL="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/masterofkungfu03076le.jpg/"


Now, let's discuss this new feat.

Handguns generally have transonic muzzle velocities, low-end puts that at subsonic right-away.

On top of that bullets lose most of their speed just after they've come out from the bullet, because air friction is squarely proportional to the velocity. That makes it subsonic-.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> ...your kidding right? [/URL]and please oh please don't cite a databook or marvels website or their database those are notoriously inaccurate


No, Shang Chi doesn't have any super powers. He's supposed to be peak human. No super-serum, no mutation, nothing.

I'm not discrediting this feat. It's clearly superhuman. But it's irrelevant to the topic. Because it's as suggested subsonic-, the Raikage have hypersonic reflexes.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I've got a number of decades of the guys bullet timing feats


You got no speed feats that put him up to par with your claims.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> via precog with out looking at it- Raikage cannot touch him period


Spider-man, with his precognition, have been touched by characters nowhere close to the Raikage's speed. We're not ignoring 99% of the content because you think 99% of the content is below what he should be at in terms of reaction.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Pete's durability sucks compared to the Raikage but with the webbing that hardly matters


When I say that the Raikage has superior durability than Spider-man, then I expect a simple "Yes" from you.

Not some excuse about how he'd be able to subdue him with webbing that pretty much every villain he has fought has broken out of.

See, you're not going to ignore what I post because you don't like it. You'll address it and if you think that it's inadequate then you'll explain why.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I'm just going to go ahead and assume you completely missed the point as opposed to being deliberately obtuse. The point of my bringing that up is low end showings..do not count they are not valid evidence


Do I need to repeat myself? DC has nothing to do with either Marvel, or Naruto. Don't bring it up. If you want to post a low-end showing in Marvel that you feel is relevant, then go by it.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no I'm sure Gramps exceeds him in strength


Good. Then I hope we won't have any more of your tossing around vehicles excuses or shenanigans from now on, because the Raikage is evidently stronger.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> but he's not touching him and Pete can take him the hell out


You've yet to prove this.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> or I could just point out all the times he's lighting timed


Which can be attributed to his spider-sense, so it's dismissed.

Notice how a normal human being able to speak as the missile is redirected towards him? Estimate a speed from that and come back to me.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Cthulu is here..so it's two mad people


So when people disagree with you and courteously point out what they conceive as flaws in your argument they want evidence or an explanation for, they're tripping? You have some growing up to do.


----------



## Cocoa (Nov 12, 2011)

Okay, this is what I saw in the episodes.

-Sense the energy in other people's bodies and thus can predict their actions.
-Teleportation
-Flight
-Forcefields
-Cut the power throughout all of New York City without effort.
-Tanks shoots from SHIELD's main ship without harm.
-Casually punched holes into SHIELD's main ship.

Keep in mind that he has people supporting him which allows him to stay in the air and spam his techniques. Also, remember that the comic book version is faster and way more powerful.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No. What you refer to as precedence is an appeal to popularity fallacy plain and simple. Facts and evidence are what matters, and I'm not going to take opinions over facts despite how you wish to sugarcoat it.


\

umm conclusions are reached based on evidence nothing else not opinions 




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> I don't recall ever debating with you prior to today, so what would be a lie too.



no that would not be a lie that would be saying..that the chances of your argument or debate tactics being original and not regurgitated arguments that pop up constantly are slim..so far I'm not wrong 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No, because clowning around for no reason would only make you look stupid and uninformed. You lied, there's no way around it.



no you made a stupid post (spiderman not being kage level) and then cited the typical arguments we've all debunked and I mocked it



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> And you'll make it sure that the lie in question is exposed so rumors of how Spider-man dodged a thousand bullets mid-air get started. We don't cater to any fandom, period. If we did then that would turn the vocal point of this forum into opinion-based garbage.



I swear I attract psuedointellectuals with an ax to grind like a buffet attracts fat people 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> So because you don't like my current tone, despite that you've called me mad on two occasions in this thread already you're not going to prove your point? A bad excuse as best. Your point is dismissed.



umm no that would be Shikiyakumo I called you among other things..an arrogant troll..and a copy pasty sage 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> I don't care where you get your evidence from. If you're unable to back up your arguments then they're worthless. This applies to everything.



..and yet your engaging in downplaying and passive aggressive debating and really now I've provided evidence your motion was to downplay and dismiss 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No. You're fabricating an excuse for why you shouldn't have to post evidence for a scan that obviously does not exist. A thousand bullets? Did Spider-man fight an army?



no i'm explaining to you why I'm accommodating you with feats while attacking your position (considering the way things are done around here..i'd be justified in abandoned that and just hurling insults at you ) 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No, regular handguns don't fire bullets at mach 5, get real.



and if he's bullet timing that makes him high tier by narutoverse standards




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Databooks and biographies are printed in the comic books.



that does not make them accurate case in point the old sources having Norrin Radd being unable to go FTL and listing Odin only a class 60



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> So it's an irrelevant comparison.



no it isn't He'd be in the top 99 percentile in naruto and he'd infact be faster than any one but Gai Naruto Bee A grampa A and possibly Sasuke 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> ]None of which you've posted.



precog allowing him to lighting time makes him superior to any naruto universe character 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No one but you cares about your ego. When you're wrong, you'll admit to being wrong so we don't have to waste our time continue dealing with a refuted point. I'll do it, and you'll do it.



then why are you carrying on like a furious fan who's favorite series has been insulted?




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> But they're not consistent if characters with similar strength to Spider-man manages to rip out of his webbing, are they? That's the reason we don't accept Captain America being in the same speed tier as Quicksilver, right?



who gets out of his webbng Venom? Lizard? Sabertooth has../he's also killed a Windigo with his barehands...no Raikage A or Gramps could accomplish that 




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> That's how people debate. They address certain bullet points which they on a point to point basis address. If you don't want to debate you have no business here.



see no this isn't debating this is a meltdown by some guy who seems to have a thing for Naruto accompanied by a conspiracy theorist 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> What part of DC has nothing to do with either Marvel or Naruto don't you understand?



what part of 'your being an obtuse twit" is so hard for you to grasp

[





Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Do I dismiss all data books ever written because the Naruto data books are wrong? No I don't.



and there we have it folks RK is officially suggesting we use marvel Databooks in threads now..



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No one thinks that Spider-man is a pushover in terms of strength. And if it's your intention to clarify something you're not replying to, then make sure to differentiate between the two.



you clearly do..you seem to think he's not kage level 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> First off, Spider-man is not faster than lightning. Hence the feat was attributed to his spider-sense. Especially since his back was turn and he couldn't conceivably have seen it coming.



His precog is so advance he can dodge lighting and lasers even with his back turned in some cases...why the fuck are you even remotely suggesting Spiderman with his precog..is getting tagged?

hell even with out precog he's shown very impressive reaction time which would still make it..difficult to be tagged 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> And once again, Spider-man have trouble with the speed of Lizard, Kraven, the Green Goblin, and the Vulture none of whom are anywhere close to Raikage's speed.



The Lizard has gotten the drop on spiderman..that puts him beyond the raikages one speed feat



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> How am I downplaying by asking you to produce a reliable number you'd feel comfortable with. The answer is, I'm not. You're upset over the fact that if someone were to make a calculation from that scan it wouldn't even end up as transsonic.



yeah aside from like three or four characters in the entire NU no one can react to missiles 




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Did I insult you? No I didn't. Did you insult me? Yes you did. Did you take offense? Yes you did. Did I take offense, no I didn't.



you certainly are acting offended..I wonder if this like that madara not madara meltdown you had in the convo 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Once again, all you have to go by is hearsay (or "precedence" as you call it) then you've lost the debate. You need evidence.



says the guy who tried to claim Spdieys precog is advanced enough to allow him to dodge lighting..but somehow can't dodge a much slower Raikage... 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Unless you're able to properly address my points I won't waste my time refuting them.





when you wanna stop pretending Scans that show a clear superiority in speed don't matter return to this thread...


----------



## ZergKage (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:
			
		

> considering the only reason why Pete's lost to kage level guys in the last few months is because he lost his precog (though training with Shang Chi means he's probably back up there) and at least two of these guys can give him physical issues..yeah it's wonky to assume merely because their spiderman foes they'd loose or something



I'm confused, are you saying the S6 are Kage level? Is everyone Kage level now? I never said anything about people being Kage level, you implied that I did so what does this even matter?



			
				Banhammer said:
			
		

> People do understand that current Electro is an electricity logia, current sandman can spread his counsciousness throughout immense masses and generate armies of himself, current hobgoblin can give people brain aneurisms by laughing and the new octavius controls nukes and an army of giant lovecraftian robots, yes?



By Logia you mean what exactly, able to absorb electricity? Travel through webbing or anything with a strong connection to electricity? Thats all that you need to be a Logia now a days? Without any power source in the building he was fighting Spiderman in, he wasted all his power in a page or 2, it was pretty pathetic, not to mention he was previously just being amped by everyone in the city turning on everything they had. And he was still terrified of liquids and was dazed when glass shrapnel hit him.

Immense Armies? I counted about 20 by the time the copies started to do whatever the hell they wanted like fighting each other and arguing. The last thing he's gonna want are clones that start attacking S6 members for all the times they've done him wrong.

Wait, isnt this the same sonic scream that was dodged by a powerless Hercules?(iirc) 

I wasnt aware this is S6 plus robots and nukes vs The old Kages. 



			
				Banhammer said:
			
		

> the only new thing vulture does though is spit acid through his face. No one cares.
> 
> But really, electro points at raikage, drains and then dumps it on the others.



Wait so now Electro's electricity and Rai's chakra lightning shroud are one and the same? 



			
				Lucifeller said:
			
		

> That's because it IS. Spiderman never actually manages to defeat Sandman or Electro cleanly, he always has to cook up a trap because his natural powers just plain don't cut it against them. The few times he went up against them in a straight fight, he lost and had to rethink his approach.
> 
> And the scan above accurately describes approximately how long Spiderman would last if Sandman stopped caring and became an actual homicidal maniac. The guy can scatter his body on a large enough area that even spidersense won't matter, and has enough fine control over his body to force individual grains of sand through fabric (the only way in which he could cram himself down Spidey's throat without breaking his mask).
> 
> Against that kind of power and control, simple web only works if Sandman is hugging the idiot ball, and some writers even admitted that logically Sandman should win. It's pure CIS and PIS when he does the exact things Spidey needs him to do to win.



I get it Luci, PIS only happens for Electro and Sandman. The only correct portrayal of Sandman happened in Marvel Zombies. Damn Spiderman for not fighting fair, wait, is Spiderman even in this match? Do the Kages have abilities that could do something to Sandman and Electro? I swear I posted a few.


----------



## Russian Kalashnikov (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> \
> 
> umm conclusions are reached based on evidence nothing else not opinions


No. Conclusions are based on evidence when evidence is requested. There are exceptions to that, but I've yet to come across one on this forum. As people (you included) consider it a burden to post evidence to back up your statement.

Now I haven't gone through the Spider-man vs Itachi and Raikage, because you still haven't posted a link to the thread. Though I'm beginning to suspect why you'd not post the thread.

As I read this post I'm also suspecting that what you meant to write "Itachi, and Raikage" you wrote "Raikage and Itachi".



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no that would not be a lie that would be saying..that the chances of your argument or debate tactics being original and not regurgitated arguments that pop up constantly are slim..so far I'm not wrong


Then you'll have to work on your English. Because that's not what you initially wrote. According to your location you're from Florida. I'm from Domodedovo, Russia. I shouldn't be correcting you in your native tongue.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no you made a stupid post (spiderman not being kage level) and then cited the typical arguments we've all debunked and I mocked it


No. That's not how it works. If I make a stupid post, then you point out why it's stupid, like I'm doing with your posts. You don't act like a clown. If the argument has been debunked prior to me posting it then you should guide me to that rebuttal. Because that would save us both time.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I swear I attract psuedointellectuals with an ax to grind like a buffet attracts fat people


How is that relevant to what you're quoting? Do you think you're funny? Do you think anyone besides you are reading our debate? You barely speak your own language and you can't even follow a basic conduct of logical reasoning. If you're interested in the debate, then behave, and address what you're quoting. I'm not going to deal with you if you insist on acting like a child who throws out a stupid comments because you refuse to follow the casual procedures of a debate. Are we clear?



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> umm no that would be Shikiyakumo I called you among other things..an arrogant troll..and a copy pasty sage


You ignored my question. I asked you whether or not you were going to provide evidence. It's a yes or no question. I don't give a shit about what you think of me, I don't give a shit about what SY thinks of me. Are we clear? Now I'm going rephrase the question for you. As you quote this you'll address this question and nothing else. Are you going to provide evidence for this supposed scan of Spider-man dodging a thousand bullets coming at him from all angels?



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> ..and yet your engaging in downplaying and passive aggressive debating and really now I've provided evidence your motion was to downplay and dismiss


You provided evidence I didn't ask for. Evidence that has no bearing whatsoever on this debate, even by your own recognition.

If you don't have the scans I request you to post after that you've stated that said events had occurred then say then make that clear. Don't make me go through shit that has no bearing on this argument and claim that I'm downplaying it by proving that it has no bearing on the debate or the outcome.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no i'm explaining to you why I'm accommodating you with feats while attacking your position (considering the way things are done around here..i'd be justified in abandoned that and just hurling insults at you )


You're not accommodating me with the feats I'm requesting from which's occurrence you've indicated. I've been to the respect threads, I've seen Spider-man at his best. I don't need to see him aim-dodging bullets from handguns. If I want scans of that then that's what I'll request.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and if he's bullet timing that makes him high tier by narutoverse standards


Not enough to deal with the Raikage's speed, who've dodged two Rasenshurikens which have been calculated to travel at mach 5.3+ point blank.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that does not make them accurate case in point the old sources having Norrin Radd being unable to go FTL and listing Odin only a class 60


I want evidence of that.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no it isn't He'd be in the top 99 percentile in naruto and he'd infact be faster than any one but Gai Naruto Bee A grampa A and possibly Sasuke


What part of irrelevant comparison don't you understand? If he's not faster than the Raikage then you can't use A < B < C logic. We're not dealing with 99% of the Naruto universe we're dealing with the 3rd Raikage.

Also, you meant to write top 1 percentile, right?



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> precog allowing him to lighting time makes him superior to any naruto universe character


Precognition not allowing him to be able to evade any assault by any non-metahuman villain isn't going to save him from the Raikage, period. We're not ignoring every physical encounter Spider-man has had with any villain because you believe that his precognition will save him from anything that isn't lightning speed.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> then why are you carrying on like a furious fan who's favorite series has been insulted?


Another prime example of you not reading the posts you're replying to, before you're replying to them. I've already addressed this.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> who gets out of his webbng Venom? Lizard? Sabertooth has../he's also killed a Windigo with his barehands...no Raikage A or Gramps could accomplish that


You're saying that the Raikage wouldn't qualify for the 10 ton class? Ridiculous. You even admitted that the Raikage is physically stronger than Spider-man who's a solid class 10 fighter.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> see no this isn't debating this is a meltdown by some guy who seems to have a thing for Naruto accompanied by a conspiracy theorist


I don't know how old you are and I don't care. Debate is a structured process where you go through and resolve disagreements on a point to point basis. The reason for this is to get things done and make it very difficult to get away with being intellectually dishonest or stupid. You don't like it because I'm putting you on the ropes with it.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> what part of 'your being an obtuse twit" is so hard for you to grasp


It's not that i didn't grasp it, it's that I turned a blind eye to another one of your childish insults. Don't bring up unrelated fictional works as an excuse for another fictional work's inconsistency. I gave you an example for why it doesn't work and I'll leave it at that.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and there we have it folks RK is officially suggesting we use marvel Databooks in threads now..


No I didn't, please read what you're quoting.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you clearly do..you seem to think he's not kage level


He isn't and you have provided no evidence for why he should be considered a kage-level fighter so don't act as if you have.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> His precog is so advance he can dodge lighting and lasers even with his back turned in some cases...why the fuck are you even remotely suggesting Spiderman with his precog..is getting tagged?


If Kraven the hunter can tag Spider-man, then Raikage would have no trouble tagging him. Because Kraven the hunter isn't fast enough to dodge two mach 5 projectiles point blank and neither is Spider-man.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> The Lizard has gotten the drop on spiderman..that puts him beyond the raikages one speed feat


Don't use circular reasoning. You've yet to prove that Spider-man is faster than the Raikage.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> yeah aside from like three or four characters in the entire NU no one can react to missiles


So you're not going to give me a number? Your point is dismissed.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you certainly are acting offended.


No, you may conceive me as acting offended. See the difference? Don't play e-psychiatrist.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> says the guy who tried to claim Spdieys precog is advanced enough to allow him to dodge lighting..but somehow can't dodge a much slower Raikage...


Work on your English, it's horrible. I've also addressed this specific point, there's no reason for why you should cry over it twice because I will onl address it once.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> when you wanna stop pretending Scans that show a clear superiority in speed don't matter return to this thread...


No they don't. Raikage have mach 5.3+ speed calculations. Spider-man has zero, nothing, nada, nitch going for him.

You ignore the basic protocol of debating to avoid having to deal with the facts. You've done this for three long posts by now, you don't provide evidence requested, and you contradict yourself on multiple occasions. This debate is over, you've lost, and you've made a fool out of yourself in the process.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No. Conclusions are based on evidence when evidence is requested. There are exceptions to that, but I've yet to come across one on this forum. As people (you included) consider it a burden to post evidence to back up your statement.]



a burden to post eidence?



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Now I haven't gone through the Spider-man vs Itachi and Raikage, because you still haven't posted a link to the thread. Though I'm beginning to suspect why you'd not post the thread.



why so you can necro the thread? that'd be humorous 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Then you'll have to work on your English. Because that's not what you initially wrote. According to your location you're from Florida. I'm from Domodedovo, Russia. I shouldn't be correcting you in your native tongue.



and we're crossing into 'failure to properly muster an argument so rant on the guys typing style"



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No. That's not how it works. If I make a stupid post, then you point out why it's stupid, like I'm doing with your posts. You don't act like a clown. If the argument has been debunked prior to me posting it then you should guide me to that rebuttal. Because that would save us both time.



on this forum we reserve the right to mock stupidity without explaining why it's stupid you are no stranger to this given your past history.



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> How is that relevant to what you're quoting? Do you think you're funny? Do you think anyone besides you are reading our debate? You barely speak your own language and you can't even follow a basic conduct of logical reasoning. If you're interested in the debate, then behave, and address what you're quoting. I'm not going to deal with you if you insist on acting like a child who throws out a stupid comments because you refuse to follow the casual procedures of a debate. Are we clear?



so in the mist of this arrogant didactic clusterfuck you've certainly proven I'm exactly right.



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> You ignored my question. I asked you whether or not you were going to provide evidence. It's a yes or no question. I don't give a shit about what you think of me, I don't give a shit about what SY thinks of me. Are we clear? Now I'm going rephrase the question for you. As you quote this you'll address this question and nothing else. Are you going to provide evidence for this supposed scan of Spider-man dodging a thousand bullets coming at him from all angels?



I'll address what ever the fuck I feel like and right now I'm more interested in addressing your poor conduct and pathetic attempt to command me. The presumptuous arrogance and your pathetic attempt to use low end showings to contradict high ones.



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> If you don't have the scans I request you to post after that you've stated that said events had occurred then say then make that clear. Don't make me go through shit that has no bearing on this argument and claim that I'm downplaying it by proving that it has no bearing on the debate or the outcome.



"durr hurr Shang Chi isn't superhuman" and apparently spiderman isn't fast enough to tag kage level people despite only three or four characters in the NU even surpassing Daredevil level speed



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> You're not accommodating me with the feats I'm requesting from which's occurrence you've indicated. I've been to the respect threads, I've seen Spider-man at his best. I don't need to see him aim-dodging bullets from handguns. If I want scans of that then that's what I'll request.



you think respect threads highlight the entirety of his career and his greatest feats? They represent the material the posters who contribute too can prove they try to go for the highest of course as per the mandate but..wow 

in any case if you've been to respect threads : your either Narutard at which any post you make has no validity- or you don't know how to god damn read.




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Not enough to deal with the Raikage's speed, who've dodged two Rasenshurikens which have been calculated to travel at mach 5.3+ point blank.



who Shang Chi? no he's not Raikage level in terms of speed but seeing as he's fought asgardian trolls and fucked up doombots he could kill a non Edo Tensei version of gramps if he ever got his paws on him so to speak.

peter parker on the hand? absolutely Raikages can't touch him



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> I want evidence of that.



I'll go look for it there was an 09 thread where some one was guilty of doing exactly what your doing now and using databooks to validate it and he got the ax for it 

unfucking fortunately that's three years of threads to look over



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> What part of irrelevant comparison don't you understand? If he's not faster than the Raikage then you can't use A < B < C logic. We're not dealing with 99% of the Naruto universe we're dealing with the 3rd Raikage.



Spiderman is as far above Shang Chi as the Raikage would be Konohamaru if that one dude is above virtually everyone in that universe reaction time wise..the fuck makes you think you can claim a guy who craps on him is loosing 




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Precognition not allowing him to be able to evade any assault by any non-metahuman villain isn't going to save him from the Raikage, period. We're not ignoring every physical encounter Spider-man has had with any villain because you believe that his precognition will save him from anything that isn't lightning speed.



low end showings do not count as evidence: I swear to god did phenomonol or Moses teach you how to debate?



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Another prime example of you not reading the posts you're replying to, before you're replying to them. I've already addressed this.



no this is my assessment of you ever since you've entered this thread you've come off like a butthurt fanboy 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> You're saying that the Raikage wouldn't qualify for the 10 ton class? Ridiculous. You even admitted that the Raikage is physically stronger than Spider-man who's a solid class 10 fighter.



first of all Peter parker hasn't been a class 10 since the damn 1980's by feats and not databooks or websites he's a class 20-25 - Venom is a fucking class 30 and so should Lizard be as well



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> I don't know how old you are and I don't care. Debate is a structured process where you go through and resolve disagreements on a point to point basis. The reason for this is to get things done and make it very difficult to get away with being intellectually dishonest or stupid. You don't like it because I'm putting you on the ropes with it.



you aren't putting me on the ropes at all you aren't the caliber of debater that would give me problems at all I haven't had to concede to you and you haven't raised any valid points beyond dishonest downplaying and an attitude that makes it very hard to take you seriously. Meanwhile you exhibit a very strong pro naruto biased and are obviously not interested in validating a point. 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> It's not that i didn't grasp it, it's that I turned a blind eye to another one of your childish insults. Don't bring up unrelated fictional works as an excuse for another fictional work's inconsistency. I gave you an example for why it doesn't work and I'll leave it at that.



obviously you didn't Grasp it the media is irrelevant the example is valid 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> He isn't and you have provided no evidence for why he should be considered a kage-level fighter so don't act as if you have.



pre-cog lighting time = superior to the raikage no matter how much you want to downplay it or dismiss it 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> If Kraven the hunter can tag Spider-man, then Raikage would have no trouble tagging him. Because Kraven the hunter isn't fast enough to dodge two mach 5 projectiles point blank and neither is Spider-man.



again low end showings do not count and I can't recall Kraven being a major problem for Pete in the last..decade or so not with out massive amounts of PIS 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Don't use circular reasoning. You've yet to prove that Spider-man is faster than the Raikage.



yes, I have



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> So you're not going to give me a number? Your point is dismissed.



then your guilty of trolling 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No, you may conceive me as acting offended. See the difference? Don't play e-psychiatrist.



you are offended 




Russian Kalashnikov said:


> Work on your English, it's horrible.



and now you've completely lost any measure of credibility you had. 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> No they don't. Raikage have mach 5.3+ speed calculations. Spider-man has zero, nothing, nada, nitch going for him.



oh look he's dismissing lighting timing again 



Russian Kalashnikov said:


> You ignore the basic protocol of debating to avoid having to deal with the facts. You've done this for three long posts by now, you don't provide evidence requested, and you contradict yourself on multiple occasions. This debate is over, you've lost, and you've made a fool out of yourself in the process.



...wow talk about cowardice and dishonesty now your running from the debate? between the downplaying and dismissal and citing evidence that isn't from a valid canon source. mother of god.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

ZergKage said:


> I'm confused, are you saying the S6 are Kage level? Is everyone Kage level now? I never said anything about people being Kage level, you implied that I did so what does this even matter?



3 of the s6 guys should be kage level one of them maybe slightly beneath them in stats but make up for it with his weaponry is what I saying the other three IIRC should be fodder but even so Doc oc should still be able to land solid hits


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Stop being such a hypocrite, Dogshit.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Stop being such a hypocrite, Dogshit.



stop being a retarded troll who cowardly lurks in threads and negs when any one dares to point out naruto sucks.

oh and apparently spiderman was able to avoid being ripped to shreads by mrs marvel..why the fuck is his speed even in question?


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *stop being a retarded troll who cowardly lurks in threads and negs* when any one dares to point out naruto sucks.
> 
> oh and apparently spiderman was able to avoid being ripped to shreads by mrs marvel..why the fuck is his speed even in question?



You're still being a hypocrite, but now you make shit up also, cool.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> You're still being a hypocrite, but now you make shit up also, cool.



nevermind that multiple posters have come forward in the convo threads accusing you of this and that you've likely been reported a few times of revenge negging

oh and in the interest of staying on topic


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *nevermind that multiple posters have come forward in the convo threads accusing you of this and that you've likely been reported a few times of revenge negging*
> 
> oh and in the interest of staying on topic



That's irrelevant. How does it matter what I do? I thought we were talking about you? And who are those idiots who care about my pathetic negs? They're just mad I told their flaws and they just don't want to accept them.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> *That's irrelevant*. How does it matter what I do? I thought we were talking about you? A*nd who are those idiots who care about my pathetic negs? They're just mad I told their flaws and they just don't want to accept them.*



1, because it's against the rules 

2, you were talking about me..contributing nothing to the thread do not even attempt to point out anothers flaws when you are so mentally ill you wildly and loudly proclaim your superior intelligence to all and your opinions as factual

3, negging a post when contributing nothing to the thread and negging because your butthurt your precious Naruto series is as badly written as a 12 year olds shitty Suefic isn't constructive in fact it's trolling and I'm pretty sure it's a ban worthy offense in some sections


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## Nevermind (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> You're still being a hypocrite, but now you make shit up also, cool.



Oh lookie here. Good of you to show up. I was looking to neg you.

Watchdog, just post some feats of Spidey holding back Juggs and Hulk if  you can find them. If that's true than I doubt Raikage can do much once he's ensnared.


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

1. because it's the rules and that's irrelevant it's totally irrelevant, I don't see how they fit
2. That's why you're such a hypocrite, you criticize others of  being retarded while you're THE mental illness in this forum
3. How about you actually prove Naruto is shitty or w/e stupid stuff a stupid idiot like you thinks? I dare you.


Nevermind is the same piece of shit btw. He should change his name to Immortal Chicken shit so you can spout your bullshit together


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## Eldritch Sukima (Nov 12, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> Watchdog, just post some feats of Spidey holding back Juggs and Hulk if  you can find them. If that's true than I doubt Raikage can do much once he's ensnared.



At what point does a high end feat become an outlier? Because that sure sounds like one given how vastly out of Spidey's weight class those two are.


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## Nevermind (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Nevermind is the same piece of shit btw. He should change his name to Immortal Chicken shit so you can spout your bullshit together







Eldritch Sukima said:


> At what point does a high end feat become an outlier? Because that sure sounds like one given how vastly out of Spidey's weight class those two are.



I agree, though I wonder if there's anything else to support it.


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> I agree, though I wonder if there's anything else to support it.



Concession accepted.


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## Lishenron (Nov 12, 2011)

This thread is...entertaining to say the least.


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 12, 2011)

Not reading through the entire thread...what are the arguments against Sandman and Electro, because out of the Six those are the biggest threats here and could easily win this.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 12, 2011)

I like how you accuse me of being mad when it's evident from your post you're the only angry one here. I also like how you cite an inane pis based showing trying to pass it off as anything but such. namely, Spider-man legitimately taking on miss marvel, hulk, juggs without PIS.  But the most amusing bit of all was your link to the "lighting timing". I was expecting a different image I'm more familar with, but when I saw that one...



Eldritch Sukima said:


> At what point does a high end feat become an outlier? Because that sure sounds like one given how vastly out of Spidey's weight class those two are.



PIS. Spider-man has on different occasions individually "beaten"  the FF4, Firelord, Hulk with help from captain america, Ironman, and given SS extreme trouble making even less sense than Black Panther holding him in an arm-lock.  But of course, it's only PIS when it works out how people want to perceive it. A shame common sense is dead.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> Oh lookie here. Good of you to show up. I was looking to neg you.
> 
> Watchdog, just post some feats of Spidey holding back Juggs and Hulk if  you can find them. If that's true than I doubt Raikage can do much once he's ensnared.



you mean cool stuff like how he webs up Rulk and totally dances around Rulk   you know what's really awesome? The Raikage could never hope to do that..ever he's in no way faster then..Rulk but apparently even in Leobs height of masturbatory evil..even pete can fucking dance around the big guy







Kaiokenred said:


> 1. because it's the rules and that's irrelevant it's totally irrelevant, I don't see how they fit



wait what the rules are totally irrelevant? are you fucking goggle eyes crazy?



Kaiokenred said:


> 2. That's why you're such a hypocrite, you criticize others of  being retarded while you're THE mental illness in this forum



so like guys apparently not only am i public health threat on mangafox but I'm one here too  



Kaiokenred said:


> 3. How about you actually prove Naruto is shitty or w/e stupid stuff a stupid idiot like you thinks? I dare you.



you mean besides the subpar writing? the last minute retcons the author favoritism toward Sasuke and all other Uchihas the manic changing of the stories theme and moral lesson..and the one dimensional characters and atrocious Duez Ex Machina



Kaiokenred said:


> Nevermind is the same piece of shit btw. He should change his name to Immortal Chicken shit so you can spout your bullshit together



Nevermind is a thousand times the poster you will ever be



Kaiokenred said:


> Concession accepted.



fail



Nevermind said:


> I agree, though I wonder if there's anything else to support it.



his webbing can restrain them for a second or so

that is the feat..nothing in naruto could even hope to do the same

oh and I think he beat juggernaut once but it was mostly relying on juggy's idiocy and PIS


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)

ZergKage said:


> By Logia you mean what exactly, able to absorb electricity? Travel through webbing or anything with a strong connection to electricity? Thats all that you need to be a Logia now a days?


No, you need to be able to transcend your physical body into an elemental force to which non elemental damage become silly.
While he has power in him he can do so making most of the Kage's attacks useless


> Without any power source in the building he was fighting Spiderman in, he wasted all his power in a page or 2, it was pretty pathetic, not to mention he was previously just being amped by everyone in the city turning on everything they had. And he was still terrified of liquids and was dazed when glass shrapnel hit him.


Yes
This


Is something throwing glass and water can totally beat.
No kidding.
Except you know, Electro has been able to electrolysis water for years and fuck up your bio-electricity by pointing at you.
Also thank you for pointing out how Electro can absorb enough electricity to power up cities like New mother fucking York.


> Immense Armies? I counted about 20 by the time the copies started to do whatever the hell they wanted like fighting each other and arguing. The last thing he's gonna want are clones that start attacking S6 members for all the times they've done him wrong.


He can cover a small island with his power and twenty is only the embodiment of of psyches that came out to face one oponent.
Take PIS off as is OBD standard and your argument falls faster than a hooker's taint on a dropped nickel.



> Wait, isnt this the same sonic scream that was dodged by a powerless Hercules?(iirc)


More PIS? How cute.


> I wasnt aware this is S6 plus robots and nukes vs The old Kages.


Current Octavius operates only from his base where all his toys are at. Standard OBD setting grants him that.


> Wait so now Electro's electricity and Rai's chakra lightning shroud are one and the same?


Yes. Yes they are.
And he can rip it off just as easy as he ripped off that Avengers Academy's kid electricity powers.


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you mean cool stuff like how he webs up Rulk and totally dances around Rulk   you know what's really awesome? The Raikage could never hope to do that..ever he's in no way faster then..Rulk but apparently even in Leobs height of masturbatory evil..even pete can fucking dance around the big guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Prove it. Also I don't care what Nevermind is, he might be a good calc or w/e but he's_ just_ wrong on these cases.


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## Nevermind (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Prove it. Also I don't care what Nevermind is, he might be a good calc or w/e but he's_ just_ wrong on these cases.



I didn't know I was a calc.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Prove it. Also I don't care what Nevermind is, he might be a good calc or w/e but he's_ just_ wrong on these cases.



prove that Naruto is god awful writing?

go pick up Homers epic or the lord of the rings or Dune and come back and talk to me

Hell go pick up Jurassic park or Eaters of the Dead and know quality if the above is too long winded for you



Nevermind said:


> I didn't know I was a calc.



I didn't know I was talking to a sentient mathematical equation..hm funny that must live in a green lantern story then

either that or Kaiokenred is just batshit crazy


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> I didn't know I was a calc.



Ok then w/e you contribute on


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> prove that Naruto is god awful writing?
> 
> go pick up Homers epic or the lord of the rings or Dune and come back and talk to me
> 
> Hell go pick up Jurassic park or Eaters of the Dead and know quality if the above is too long winded for you



Proof missing. Concession accepted.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Nov 12, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> I didn't know I was a calc.



I just sigged this.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Proof missing. Concession accepted.



no..see in order to get away with that..because doing that is trollish misconduct even when you have a half decent argument, you have to y'know have a valid fucking point.

you don't and evidentially you don't read for shit

have you ever read the God father? See that;s how you do deception and subtlety and plot twists..not fucking Naruto

also are you mentally disabled? i spelled out why naruto sucks


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)

Also I heard people bitching about negs.
Logically I negged everyone


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no..see in order to get away with that..because doing that is trollish misconduct even when you have a half decent argument, you have to y'know have a valid fucking point.
> 
> you don't and evidentially you don't read for shit
> 
> ...



Lol you don't prove a manga's quality by comparing it with other works of literature you pathetic idiot. You have no idea what the quality aspects of a manga are you retarded moron. Do the world a favor and suicide, you're not needed.


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## Nevermind (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> 3. How about you actually prove Naruto is shitty or w/e stupid stuff a stupid idiot like you thinks? I dare you.



Value is subjective. Economics 101. Too bad you can't seem to grasp that and instead make yourself a laughing stock to the forum.



8-Peacock-8 said:


> I just sigged this.



Oh you.


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> Value is subjective. Economics 101. Too bad you can't seem to grasp that and instead make yourself a laughing stock to the forum.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you.



If it's subjective, then why does this shit go and insult everyone who thinks Naruto is not bad?


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## SpaceMook (Nov 12, 2011)

How did this get to four pages? 

The kage's aren't getting past Electro and Hydroman for reasons already stated.


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, shit is great when you're a fly, but I'm not gonna stop pointing at turds and laughing when I see them just in case I don't want to hurt some irrelevant pest's feelings


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## Es (Nov 12, 2011)

Naruto wankers again?

Time to beak out the jerky


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## SpaceMook (Nov 12, 2011)

Es said:


> Naruto wankers again?



Wanking its quality.


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

SpaceMook said:


> Wanking its quality.



How can you wank the quality of an awesome manga? Unless you say something like it's fkingxx perfectz da best ever


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)

Man, he's like twelve or something.
I feel bad about this
OBD you can't pleasure me any more


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Nov 12, 2011)

I think it stopped pleasuring you the day Akatora was spewing out his fetishes.


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> Man, he's like twelve or something.
> I feel bad about this
> OBD you can't pleasure me any more



If I'm twelve then worse for Dogshit to have his shitty ideals proven wrong by a pre-teen. Or wait wait.. If I'm twelve, and I know a foreign language this much, wouldn't that make me the smartest person that posted in this thread?


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeah, that was an embarrassing day for us both.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Lol you don't prove a manga's quality by comparing it with other works of literature you pathetic idiot.



are you retarded? THAT'S EXACTLY HOW YOU COMPARE AND RATE FICTION!! that's how you determine quality for virtually anything...sweet jesus



Kaiokenred said:


> You have no idea what the quality aspects of a manga are you retarded moron. Do the world a favor and suicide, you're not needed.



yeah..you really have no idea what your talking about you're misinformed and ignorant and not very well read and it shows



Kaiokenred said:


> If it's subjective, then why does this shit go and insult everyone who thinks Naruto is not bad?





Banhammer said:


> Well, shit is great when you're a fly, but I'm not gonna stop pointing at turds and laughing when I see them just in case I don't want to hurt some irrelevant pest's feelings



what he said



Kaiokenred said:


> If I'm twelve then worse for Dogshit to have his shitty ideals proven wrong by a pre-teen. Or wait wait.. If I'm twelve, and I know a foreign language this much, wouldn't that make me the smartest person that posted in this thread?



...I'm sorry did you claim you proved me wrong?


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> are you retarded? THAT'S EXACTLY HOW YOU COMPARE AND RATE FICTION!! that's how you determine quality for virtually anything...sweet jesus
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:rofl hilarious shit here. First time you actually  made me laugh.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> If I'm twelve then worse for Dogshit to have his shitty ideals proven wrong by a pre-teen. Or wait wait.. If I'm twelve, and I know a foreign language this much, wouldn't that make me the smartest person that posted in this thread?



This is coming from the guy who thinks Nevermind is a living calculator.



Banhammer said:


> Yeah, that was an embarrassing day for us both.



yes, yes it was im still mentally scared......i didn't know anyone could be into that type of shit....


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## Es (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> If I'm twelve then worse for Dogshit to have his shitty ideals proven wrong by a pre-teen. Or wait wait.. If I'm twelve, and I know a foreign language this much, wouldn't that make me the smartest person that posted in this thread?


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

8-Peacock-8 said:


> This is coming from the guy who thinks Nevermind is a living calculator.
> 
> 
> 
> yes, yes it was im still mentally scared......i didn't know anyone could be into that type of shit....



Well sorry for not knowing one fucking word of a foreign language. Whatever you call someone who calculates then.


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)

Actually, not even a twelve year old would use "speaking" as a personal intellectual achievement .
Specially someone who speaks as poorly as you


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> :rofl hilarious shit here. First time you actually  made me laugh.



so your a seal then? your in it up to your neck and yet you still applaud like a retard?


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> Actually, not even a twelve year old would use "speaking" as a personal intellectual achievement .
> Specially someone who speaks as poorly as you



Right, that's just your opinion which can't be technically proven. And English is not my native language, that still makes me much smarter than anyone here if I know it *this* much by the age of twelve


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so your a seal then? you*('re)*r in it up to your neck and yet you still applaud like a retard?



So mine am what? I am ... w/e I give up.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Right, that's just your opinion which can't be technically proven. And English is not my native language, that still makes me much smarter than anyone here if I know it *this* much by the age of twelve



trying to find quality writing in Naruto is like ordering Chicken flavored Ice Cream..


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## sonic546 (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> How can you wank the quality of an awesome manga? Unless you say something like it's fkingxx perfectz da best ever



"Naruto" and "awesome" do not belong in the same sentence unless you're talking about how awesomely idiotic it is.


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Ok then Prove it.


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Right, that's just your opinion which can't be technically proven. And English is not my native language, that still makes me much smarter than anyone here if I know it *this* much by the age of twelve



Not really. Most european kids speak proficiently two languages by age ten. Many of them speak native level english.
Personally I did so with both portuguese and english, as it is natural for children of immigrant parents and in the following seven years I mastered French, Spanish and gained a deal German to boot
Speaking is not an intellectual achievement.
But good job there grasping at hypothetical nonsense to make you feel better about yourself.
I mean, of all the answers to "Oh my God, is that a twelve year old on the internet?" the last one I expected is "YES I AM"


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> Not really. Most european kids speak proficiently two languages by age ten. Many of them speak native level english.
> Personally I did so with both portuguese and english, as it is natural for children of immigrant parents and in the following seven years I mastered French, Spanish and gained a deal German to boot
> Speaking is not an intellectual achievement.
> But good job there grasping at hypothetical nonsense to make you feel better about yourself.
> I mean, of all the answers to "Oh my God, is that a twelve year old on the internet?" the last one I expected is "YES I AM"



Who said I had immigrant parents? And where are you getting those statistics from?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> So mine am what? I am ... w/e I give up.





Kaiokenred said:


> Ok then Prove it.






oh..Seal


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeah, and I don't see how the comment about the seal is relevant to what you replied


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Who said I had immigrant parents? And where are you getting those statistics from?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Yeah, and I don't see how the comment about the seal is relevant to what you replied



Oh Seal there you go again in it over your head and applauding like a retard


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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Oh Seal there you go again in it over your head and applauding like a retard



Who says I was applauding


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## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2011)




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## Forces (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeah w/e this is now officially boring. Good night


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## Physics Man (Nov 12, 2011)

Welcome back Banhammer


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 12, 2011)

Kaiokenred said:


> Who says I was applauding



a Seal not applauding at nothing? thats like saying Tigers don't have stripes


----------

