# Zoro vs DF-less Kuzan



## Haruhifan21 (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan has no DF.

Can Zoro pull it off?


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## Amol (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan wins with Mid(high) diff .


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 7, 2015)

Nope. Even without his DF, Aokiji's stats are too much for Zoro.


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## Raid3r2010 (Mar 7, 2015)

Not yet.Kuzan low diff's due better physical stats and haki mastery.


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## Amol (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan is not low diffing Zoro without his DF.
Sure he wins but not that easily.
We are past those days now .


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## Ruse (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan mid diffs, his stats are still superior to Zoro's.


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## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Mar 7, 2015)

_Could someone explain from where these awesome haki feats of Kuzan came?

OT: We know nothing about what Kuzan can do without his DF. So, it's hard to decide._


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## Freechoice (Mar 7, 2015)

Aokiji low diff

Recent chapter illustrates just how important CoA haki is, and if yours is better than your opponent, he ain't shit to you.



R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> _Could someone explain from where these awesome haki feats of Kuzan came?
> 
> OT: We know nothing about what Kuzan can do without his DF. So, it's hard to decide._



You don't need feats. It's simple common sense. Aokiji is one of the strongest people in OP and it's not solely due to his DF. All his stats are monstrous.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 7, 2015)

Amol said:


> Kuzan is not low diffing Zoro without his DF.
> Sure he wins but not that easily.
> We are past those days now .


Let's take a look at what other M3 level fighters went through. Sanji nearly got his leg broken with one hit from Vergo. Ace nearly got his neck snapped in one hit by Blackbeard. Luffy was sent reeling by a kick from a Doflamingo who had just gotten back up from a free Red Hawk. Aokiji has near equal stats with Akainu, who stopped Whitebeard's bisento with one foot, and a Whitebeard on death's door overpowered Blackbeard. All he has to do is punch Zoro a few times, which really isn't that hard given Aokiji's speed (went from the scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford in the blink of an eye), and Zoro is done for.


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## Kaiser (Mar 7, 2015)

Zoro's high end moves outmatch Issho's low end attacks. From what we've seen from kuzan, he is not particularly physical centric. No way is Zoro going down low-mid diff without his devil fruit. We're past those days now. It would require high diff for Kuzan to win


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## Freechoice (Mar 7, 2015)

what the fuck


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## Raid3r2010 (Mar 7, 2015)

Amol said:


> Kuzan is not low diffing Zoro without his DF..



You're dead wrong bro. 



Amol said:


> Sure he wins but not that easily.



Kuzan wins fairly easy even without his devil fruit.He's still way faster,way stronger,has way better endurance,way better haki ... he's admiral material while ZORO isn't.It's kinda obvious Kuzan should be able to low diff if not one shot Zoro by this point if Kuzan is serious about the fight and not trolling around like Kizaru otherwise I'd still say end low difficulty at best.Dude,Aokiji managed to freeze the world's strongest.That's a feat of ridiculous combat speed.Zoro's not even a fly by this point of series.He's like a vice-admiral that gets one shotted by an admiral/yonko level fighter. 



Amol said:


> We are past those days now .



*It's the opposite.*

Zoro need quite a few years to catch up in physical strength,endurance (those at the top of the world can fight for 10 days or more for what we know),combat speed (ATTACK/EVASIVE and reaction in time) and haki mastery (obviously current zoro is pretty much a noone in haki compared to someone who fought in equal ground with Akainu for 10 days while Akainu hold his own against the strongest man in the world and managed to injure him bad a couple of times by melting his face and burning his chest ... who's Zoro by this point ? I ask you as a Zoro MEGA FAN ! Don't bother.I tell you.He's nothing more than a fly compared to an admiral level fighter.


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## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Mar 7, 2015)

Lol said:


> You don't need feats. It's simple common sense. Aokiji is one of the strongest people in OP and it's not solely due to his DF. All his stats are monstrous.


_
It doesn't matter if he's one of strongest. For all we know he stood at the top mainly because of his mastery over his DF. Anyone would lose great deal of their strength if their main weapon is taken away from them. Aokiji without his DF is same as Zoro without his swords. _


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## Amol (Mar 7, 2015)

Issho said:


> Let's take a look at what other M3 level fighters went through.
> Sanji nearly got his leg broken with one hit from Vergo.


Vergo used haki. Sanji didn't. This is obvious and normal thing to happen.


> Ace nearly got his neck snapped in one hit by Blackbeard.


But it didn't snap. Probably the most overrated feat in the history.Are you going to list every single injury they got in forever ?


> Luffy was sent reeling by a kick from a Doflamingo who had just gotten back up from a free Red Hawk.


 and that kick did absolutely nothing to him. What was the point of it?
Luffy is gonna break every bone that Doflamingo. You know that.


> Aokiji has near equal stats with Akainu, who stopped Whitebeard's bisento with one foot,


 If I remember it correctly Akainu was using a mini volcano in foot





> a Whitebeard on death's door overpowered Blackbeard.


 We both have already discussed why BB got humiliated .You are ignoring context of that fight. BB lost because of his attitude.


> All he has to do is punch Zoro a few times, which really isn't that hard given Aokiji's speed (went from the scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford in the blink of an eye), and Zoro is done for.


Good thing that I never said Zoro wins then .


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## Freechoice (Mar 7, 2015)

R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> _
> It doesn't matter if he's one of strongest. For all we know he stood at the top mainly because of his mastery over his DF. Anyone would lose great deal of their strength if their main weapon is taken away from them. Aokiji without his DF is same as Zoro without his swords. _



Oops just realised what your name is, no point talking with a tubby

Why are you italicizing your posts


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## Raid3r2010 (Mar 7, 2015)

R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> _
> It doesn't matter if he's one of strongest. For all we know he stood at the top mainly because of his mastery over his DF. Anyone would lose great deal of their strength if their main weapon is taken away from them. Aokiji without his DF is same as Zoro without his swords. _



That's true but it won't change the fact he's still faster,stronger and has a better haki mastery (COA/COO).


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## Venom (Mar 7, 2015)

Aokiji low to mid diff


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## zoro_santoryu (Mar 7, 2015)

I honestly think it would be Kuzan high dif..


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## Sherlōck (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan Low difficulty.


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## Jeep Brah (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan mid difficulty


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## Luke (Mar 7, 2015)

Aokiji whips out his sword and goes to town. 

Mid difficulty.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 7, 2015)

Luke said:


> Aokiji* whips out his sword *and goes to town.
> 
> Mid difficulty.



oh he'd better not

as soon as he does he's gonna get solo'd

havent you learned?


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 7, 2015)

ehhh Kuzan low diff. 

Apart from swordsmanship (and even that I daresay would be close) every one of Kuzan's stats would be significantly superior to Zolo's. 



Lol said:


> Why are you italicizing your posts



_Don't you know that using a pretentious custom font makes your post sound ten times more intelligent? 
_
*No lie tbh.*


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## trance (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan beats Zoro to death. He shouldn't be pushed further than mid difficulty and even that seems too generous.


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## ShadoLord (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan low-diff.

Kuzan's CoA is wayyy surperior to Zoro for him to even hurt them once he clad himself in CoA Haki.

The difference is too huge.


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## Haruhifan21 (Mar 7, 2015)

Funny how the responses here are quite different from the Zoro vs Knife Mihawk.

"Zoro's training was useless if he can't at least beat Mihawk with his butter knife"


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## Lawliet (Mar 7, 2015)

Zoro: Santoryou
Kuzan: ...
Zoro: Asura!

Kuzan. rarara, I forgot I wasn't a logia anymore

Narrator: Kuzan cut in half

on topic, Kuzan high difficulty.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 7, 2015)

R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> Could someone explain from where these awesome haki feats of Kuzan came?


He helped his fellow Admirals block a quake from Whitebeard aimed at the scaffold and remained intangible from Whitebeard's stab.


Amol said:


> Vergo used haki. Sanji didn't. This is obvious and normal thing to happen.
> 
> But it didn't snap.


Doesn't matter. Fact is Sanji's leg nearly got broke and Ace nearly got his neck snapped. Aokiji's stats are miles above Vergo, Yami Blackbeard, and Doflamingo's, so attacks from him will in turn do far more damage than theirs.


Amol said:


> and that kick did absolutely nothing to him.





Amol said:


> Luffy is gonna break every bone that Doflamingo. You know that.


Yeah, I know Luffy is going to beat Doflamingo this arc, because of help from Law, CIS, and plot armor.


Amol said:


> If I remember it correctly Akainu was using a mini volcano in foot


And Whitebeard imbued his bisento with a quake, so it all evens out.


Amol said:


> We both have already discussed why BB got humiliated .You are ignoring context of that fight. BB lost because of his attitude.


Yeah, and because Blackbeard at the time was fodder to top tiers, as proven when Whitebeard physically manhandled him even with half his head gone.


Amol said:


> Good thing that I never said Zoro wins then .


He's also not pushing Aokiji too far.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 7, 2015)

Aokiji man handles him.

One punch breaks Zoros neck.


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## Gohara (Mar 7, 2015)

Zoro wins with high to extremely high difficulty.  It's difficult to compare them in most categories, but I think Zoro is close to Admiral level given what Rayleigh says about Luffy.  So an Admiral having their power reduced by around a good deal should be enough to give Zoro the edge IMO, maybe unless it's pre time skip Akainu.


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## Lawliet (Mar 7, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Aokiji man handles him.
> 
> One punch breaks Zoros neck.



bitch please. You seen Zoro's manly nick? Kuzan breaks his fist.


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## Bernkastel (Mar 7, 2015)

Mid diff seems fair.


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## Coruscation (Mar 7, 2015)

Kuzan shouldn't need more than mid-diff to take out Zoro even without his DF, given the obvious differences in Haki and physical stats combined with the fact that the Admirals have clearly all received high grade weapons and physical combat training and won't be slackers in those regards.


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## Canute87 (Mar 7, 2015)

Zoro needed an admiral to throw him a height and distance that Kiji could reach in one jump.
Physical difference alone is quite clear.

Anything else is obvious to people who are wise enough to not depend on one panel feats to support a point.


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## Raiden34 (Mar 7, 2015)

Amol said:


> BB lost because of his attitude.
> 
> .



That is true, even Whitebeard himself said that.



''Your weakness... Is that you overestimate yourself and get careless...''

And it is not exactly ''losing'' since he had consciousness enough to order his men to kill Whitebeard after getting quake attack right into his face and he used his Haki imbued Pistol against him as well.





Amol said:


> If I remember it correctly Akainu was using a mini volcano in foot



That's true as well.


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## Magentabeard (Mar 7, 2015)

If you took away Kuzan's CoA but not CoO it could go either way. If you restrict haki completely Kuzan wins very high diff. In this case Kuzan upper mid diffs IMO.


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## Haruhifan21 (Mar 7, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Zoro needed an admiral to throw him a height and distance that Kiji could reach in one jump.
> Physical difference alone is quite clear.
> 
> Anything else is obvious to people who are wise enough to not depend on one panel feats to support a point.





Canute87 said:


> If Mihawk only tries to fight with the dagger he'll lose.



So you think DF-less Kuzan is much stronger than Knife Mihawk?


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## Dunno (Mar 8, 2015)

Issho said:


> Let's take a look at what other M3 level fighters went through. Sanji nearly got his leg broken with one hit from Vergo. Ace nearly got his neck snapped in one hit by Blackbeard. Luffy was sent reeling by a kick from a Doflamingo who had just gotten back up from a free Red Hawk. Aokiji has near equal stats with Akainu, who stopped Whitebeard's bisento with one foot, and a Whitebeard on death's door overpowered Blackbeard. All he has to do is punch Zoro a few times, which really isn't that hard given Aokiji's speed (went from the scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford in the blink of an eye), and Zoro is done for.



Other M3 level fighters are not Zoro. The two times Zoro went up against a admiral level fighter, he came out with very minor wounds, even when being caught off-guard. And that was an admiral with his DF. Not saying Zoro could win, but he'll at least give Aokiji a mid diff fight.


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## Suit (Mar 8, 2015)

Zoro fodderized Fujitora tho. Why restrict Kuzan?

On the real though, Kuzan spanks it.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Then he whoops Zoro's ass.


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## Nox (Mar 8, 2015)

Despite the loss of majority of his offensive arsenal, Kuzan is still superior in term of a attributes. Maybe if you restricted Haki Zoro would have a chance of getting past Mid Difficulty.


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## Canute87 (Mar 8, 2015)

rainyrabbit said:


> So you think DF-less Kuzan is much stronger than Knife Mihawk?



From how I view Knife Mihawk then yes.


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## Captain Altintop (Mar 8, 2015)

Aokiji mid diff.


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## Karashi (Mar 8, 2015)

Anyone that rolled with Garp as a underling has crazy Haki lel.


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## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Mar 8, 2015)

Issho said:


> He helped his fellow Admirals block a quake from Whitebeard aimed at the scaffold and remained intangible from Whitebeard's stab.


_
It wasn't much of a deal. That feat was pulled with combined effort and everything they did was just stopping a shock wave which wasn't even directed towards them.  That second point wasn't a haki feat, he bypassed his attack with his logia ability.

He's not low diffing Zoro if his DF is taken away from him. Zoro has what it takes to push a full powered admiral to a bit above low dif.
_


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## zorokuma (Mar 8, 2015)

low diff? really ppl?  if he would low diff zoro at this point without a df, one piece is gonna have 2500 chapters


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## Wayne With The Ism (Mar 8, 2015)

R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> _Could someone explain from where these awesome haki feats of Kuzan came?
> 
> OT: We know nothing about what Kuzan can do without his DF. So, it's hard to decide._



Kuzan stalemated WB's haki when WB's bisento went through him. That is enough evidence to prove Kuzan's haki is in a different league than Zoro's.


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## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Mar 9, 2015)

EnyawNehc said:


> Kuzan stalemated WB's haki when WB's bisento went through him. That is enough evidence to prove Kuzan's haki is in a different league than Zoro's.


_It wasn't a haki feat for gods sake. He merely bypassed it with his logia intangibility. If Kuzan blocked it with haki then it wouldn't have went through his body in the first place.

The haki WB displayed against Shanks shits all over Kuzan's body. He's not matching that shit with his own haki. 

_


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 9, 2015)

R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> It wasn't much of a deal. That feat was pulled with combined effort and everything they did was just stopping a shock wave which wasn't even directed towards them.


It actually is. Aokiji helped his Admirals stop a quake from the Strongest Man in the World without even trying hard, which is more impressive than any Haki feat Zoro has.


R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> It wasn't a haki feat for gods sake. He merely bypassed it with his logia intangibility. If Kuzan blocked it with haki then it wouldn't have went through his body in the first place.



Marco and Vista's attacks went through Akainu. Does that mean Akainu wasn't using Haki?


R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> The haki WB displayed against Shanks shits all over Kuzan's body. He's not matching that shit with his own haki.


That Haki was HH, not BH, at the moment it's nothing more than fancy fodder removal. It's BH that matters when it comes to bypassing Logia intangibility and Whitebeard's BH was only good enough to get past an Admiral's defense when he was bloodlusted.


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## jNdee~ (Mar 9, 2015)

Kuzan Mid diff @ worst.


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## jNdee~ (Mar 9, 2015)

lol @ doubting Kuzan's haki.

He was a guy who matched Akainu for 10 days. Scaling says, Akainu had a tremendous display of Haki feat during the war. Pretty sure Kuzan is not that far behind.

Not to mention the bisento stab, tho we don't know the truth behind, it is not impossible that Kuzan used his haki to overthrow WB's.


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## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Mar 9, 2015)

Issho said:


> It actually is. Aokiji helped his Admirals stop a quake from the Strongest Man in the World without even trying hard, which is more impressive than any Haki feat Zoro has.


_
They just stopped a shock wave which wasn't even directed at them. It wasn't big deal. No admiral managed to block GGNM punch head on. Sengoku was the only one who matched it with his own attack._



> Marco and Vista's attacks went through Akainu. Does that mean Akainu wasn't using Haki?



Yup, He didn't use haki. Haki blocks incoming attacks. I have never seen haki letting anything pass through it when used as a defence. If the enemy went through it then it means that your haki was beaten. You can prove me wrong ,if you can that is.



> That Haki was HH, not BH, at the moment it's nothing more than fancy fodder removal. It's BH that matters when it comes to bypassing Logia intangibility and Whitebeard's BH was only good enough to get past an Admiral's defense when he was bloodlusted.


_
What the hell ? They physically clashed each other and you are telling me that COA wasn't involved there? I guess you are mistaking WB with Shanks, WB never displayed his HH.
_





jNdee~ said:


> lol @ doubting Kuzan's haki.
> 
> He was a guy who matched Akainu for 10 days. Scaling says, Akainu had a tremendous display of Haki feat during the war. Pretty sure Kuzan is not that far behind.
> 
> Not to mention the bisento stab, tho we don't know the truth behind, it is not impossible that Kuzan used his haki to overthrow WB's.


_
The shape of PH clearly indicates that their main weapons during their battle were their respective fruits not haki. I know that an admiral can low dif Zoro but saying same thing will happen even if most of admirals power is taken away is just stupid.


What the hell is the point of TS if they can't even hold their asses against a massively restricted admiral?


_


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 9, 2015)

R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> They just stopped a shock wave which wasn't even directed at them. It wasn't big deal.



*Spoiler*: __ 










R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> No admiral managed to block GGNM punch head on. Sengoku was the only one who matched it with his own attack.



Read the manga.


R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> Yup, He didn't use haki.


Then you obviously don't know what you're talking about.


R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> What the hell ? They physically clashed each other and you are telling me that COA wasn't involved there?


No, it was just their HH clashing, similar to .


R o r o n o a Z o r o said:


> What the hell is the point of TS if they can't even hold their asses against a massively restricted admiral?


So that they could survive in the New World.


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## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Mar 9, 2015)

Issho said:


> *Spoiler*: __


_
It won't prove anything here. It was just a shock wave.
_



> Read the manga.


_
Ok, It was a mistake on my part but it still doesn't prove anything as he was using his DF while clashing with WB so it wasn't haki feat._



> Then you obviously don't know what you're talking about.


_
Just spouting whatever runs through your head won't help you here. If can prove me wrong then do it by providing manga evidence. If your haki is strong enough then it won't let any attack pass through it. _



> No, it was just their HH clashing, similar to .


_
There was delay b/w their direct clash and HH clash but I don't remember such a thing b/w Shanks and WB which proves that HH wasn't involved there.
_




> So that they could survive in the New World.


_ Surviving in NW means surviving against pirates as well as marines. Their main reasons behind getting stronger are admirals. They have gotten stronger so that they could stand a chance against top dogs like admirals._


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## jNdee~ (Mar 10, 2015)

Lol. Why does 2 year training actually make Zoro relevant to a top dog?

Zoro will eventually surpass most of them, but not right now.

This is like saying that Prime WB without gura wouldn't low diff Vista..


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 10, 2015)

Zoro is equal to knife-Mihawk

DFless Kuzan is basically just a haki-bambooman like Vergo, except maybe physically a bit stronger

Zoro shits on Vergo low diff. He would mid diff Kuzan


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## jNdee~ (Mar 11, 2015)

lol what the fuck.


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## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Mar 11, 2015)

jNdee~ said:


> Lol. Why does 2 year training actually make Zoro relevant to a top dog?
> 
> Zoro will eventually surpass most of them, but not right now.
> 
> This is like saying that Prime WB without gura wouldn't low diff Vista..


_
The main reason behind 2Y training was to become relevant against top tiers. No one ever said that  current Zoro surpassed high tiers. Any admiral can low dif him but saying same thing will happen even if most of their power is taken away from them is just stupid._


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