# Fanfic feats and abilities



## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

What are some of the absurd fanfic abilities and feats posters use in the battledome for specific characters??

Reactions: Creative 1 | Lewd 1


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## dante1729 (Apr 1, 2018)

itachi can genjutsu obito

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

Daikodan beats Indras Arrow is a personal favorite of mine

Jman can sense Amaterasu when Kabuto couldnt is another

1 MS Kakashi has KCM levels of speed is an old but good one

EMS Sasuke CANT summon snakes

Itachis Yasaka Magatama>CT and will one shot it

Reactions: Like 4


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## FlamingRain (Apr 1, 2018)

Darui having a Shunshin on par with RCM Raikage. 

Tsunade too. Somehow she can outpace him to attack Susano'o but not be faster than him.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

FlamingRain said:


> Darui having a Shunshin on par with RCM Raikage.


Lol I've seen people saying this on other forums as well


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Daikodan beats Indras Arrow is a personal favorite of mine


Or Kisame absorbing ninjutsu through his skin


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 1, 2018)

-Hidan being immune to genjutsu via Jashin being his partner

-Tsunade regrowing her head

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Djomla (Apr 1, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> EMS Sasuke CANT summon snakes



What?  Who the fuck said that?


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Tsunade regrowing her head


Tsunade = Majin Buu confirmed

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blaze Release (Apr 1, 2018)

Obito has hashirama's dna.
Seriously, that gets me everytime.



dante1729 said:


> itachi can genjutsu obito



But he can.
However obito should have no trouble breaking free.



RahulPK04 said:


> Or Kisame absorbing ninjutsu through his skin


But he can and he did.
Hijutsu ishibari


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

Djomla said:


> What?  Who the fuck said that?


I dont kiss and tell

Reactions: Funny 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> -Hidan being immune to genjutsu via Jashin being his partner


I vaguely recall seeing this


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Ablaze said:


> But he can and he did.
> Hijutsu ishibari


It was pure chakra being sent through Kisame's skin..I'm talking about elemental ninjutsus..I've seen people claiming that base Kisame is like Preta Path


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## Blaze Release (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> It was pure chakra being sent through Kisame's skin..I'm talking about elemental ninjutsus..I've seen people claiming that base Kisame is like Preta Path



It is still ninjutsu regardless, so you are wrong there.
Also please explain why kisame cannot absorb elemental ninjutsu's.
Honestly i'm interested.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 1, 2018)

Itachi is fast as KCM Naruto
Itachi is stronger than EMS sasuke
Itachi has kagatsuchi
Itachi solos all

Kakashi is as fast as Gated guy
Kakashi can spam Kamui

Guy is faster than Minato
Guy is as fast as v2 Raikage without gates

Kisame has bijuu level chakra
Kisame is more durable than pain

Ms Sasuke is as fast as v2 raikage
Ms sasuke has insane stamina

Reactions: Like 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Kisame has bijuu level chakra


This is fucking canon 


PradyumnaR said:


> Guy is faster than Minato


He very well could be if we are talking Base minato vs 7G Gai

Hardly a ridiculous claim


PradyumnaR said:


> Ms Sasuke is as fast as v2 raikage
> Ms sasuke has insane stamina


Way to once again prove that my point went over your head and you cant interpret canon

I said MS sasuek had more stamina than gated gai...Not that hes some amazing stamina giant...

And i said Sasuke could REACT to the raikage...Because he does...ON PANEL

Way to give it the ol college try tho


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Ablaze said:


> It is still ninjutsu regardless, so you are wrong there.
> Also please explain why kisame cannot absorb elemental ninjutsu's.
> Honestly i'm interested.


Read chapter 470..Kisame mentally reacts to Raiton pencil but had to evade it..And he also states that if he hadn't dodged it, the pencil would've punched a hole through him..If he really had preta path like ability, then he shouldve simply absorbed the Raiton..And in the same chapter he resorts to Samehada's absorption to absorb Raiton from Bee's swords..Why didn't he do that through his skin instead??


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## Blaze Release (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> Read chapter 470..Kisame mentally reacts to Raiton pencil but had to evade it..And he also states that if he hadn't dodged it, the pencil would've punched a hole through him..If he really had preta path like ability, then he shouldve simply absorbed the Raiton..And in the same chapter he resorts to Samehada's absorption to absorb Raiton from Bee's swords..Why didn't he do that through his skin instead??



Meh, not worth it.
And i thought you had some serious argument.
Moving on.......


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Itachi is fast as KCM Naruto
> Itachi is stronger than EMS sasuke
> Itachi has kagatsuchi
> Itachi solos all




You can't miss these



PradyumnaR said:


> Kakashi is as fast as Gated guy
> Kakashi can spam Kamui


You are new here..Kamui GG is super prevalent here these days..Donno why



PradyumnaR said:


> Guy is faster than Minato


Guy with gates could be faster than Minato's base speed though..I don't think it's a farfetched claim..But with Hiraishin its a different story altogether



PradyumnaR said:


> Kisame has bijuu level chakra


He has though..He's called the tail less tailed beast for a reason


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Ablaze said:


> Meh, not worth it.
> And i thought you had some serious argument.
> Moving on.......


Lol I see what you did there..Concession accepted


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## Santoryu (Apr 1, 2018)

Tsunade regrowing a head
Tsunade regrowing her head after having it sniped off by Kamui
Tsunade coming back alive with Byakugou
Hebi's Sasuke's curse-sealed form makes him _significantly faster_ than speedsters such as Kakashi
Boss summons being immune to Sharingan genjutsu because they're boss summons
Jirobos mix of what looks like aikido & sumo and strength feats make him a better CQC practitioner than War arc Sakura (was not a joke)
Just a few from recent memory

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 1, 2018)

Wasn't there a thread here a bit ago where people were adamantly arguing MS/EMS Sasuke isn't prison-raped by KCM Naruto?

That Sasuke would snipe him with Amaterasu before he could move or sense it?

Might have been on reddit, not sure.


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Santoryu said:


> speedsters such as Kakashi


Kakashi isnt a speedster though..Minato, Raikage, Tobirama, KCM Naruto and above are..And base Sasuke was keeping up with Kakashi..CS2 should give him an amp great enough to outspeeding Kakashi in combat



Santoryu said:


> Jirobos mix of what looks like aikido & sumo and strength feats make him a better CQC practitioner than War arc Sakura (was not a joke)


Lol this I've seen just recently


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 1, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> This is fucking canon
> 
> He very well could be if we are talking Base minato vs 7G Gai
> 
> ...


Chill the fuck down bro.. Wasn't talking about you... 
This isn't the only forum I was ever a part of. 
Again you so wish fully misinterpret it so you can get a chance to insert face emojis.. 
Kisame " has" so much Chakra because he never runs out of it which is because of samehada which feeds him the drained Chakra.  Not without it.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

Santoryu said:


> Hebi's Sasuke's curse-sealed form makes him _significantly faster_ than speedsters such as Kakashi


Itd be a pretty notable margin as base sasuke is arguably faster already

Also...


Santoryu said:


> *speedsters such as Kakashi*


Stop


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Ultrafragor said:


> Wasn't there a thread here a bit ago where people were adamantly arguing MS/EMS Sasuke isn't prison-raped by KCM Naruto?
> 
> That Sasuke would snipe him with Amaterasu before he could move or sense it?
> 
> Might have been on reddit, not sure.



There was a thread here a few weeks ago with KCM Naruto (with co-op) vs EMS Sasuke..But almost everyone rooted for Naruto on that one


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> You can't miss these
> 
> 
> You are new here..Kamui GG is super prevalent here these days..Donno why
> ...


When I say Minato I refer to Flying thunder God. Not base speed. 
Kisame " has" so much Chakra because he never runs out of it which is because of samehada which feeds him the drained Chakra. Not without it.
I might be wrong but people always use it as if it decides all his battles.


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 1, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Chill the fuck down bro.. Wasn't talking about you...
> This isn't the only forum I was ever a part of.
> Again you so wish fully misinterpret it so you can get a chance to insert face emojis..
> Kisame " has" so much Chakra because he never runs out of it which is because of samehada which feeds him the drained Chakra.  Not without it.



Old theory


But don't worry, A4 vs Sasuke shows us what happens when characters with "bijuu level chakra" try to fight other Kage level characters


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Chill the fuck down bro.. Wasn't talking about you...


Sure you werent

Regardless of who you are addressing, youre still wrong to oppose those claims regardless of who your spite is aimed at 

Sasuke has great stamina feats on panel, and he reacts to the Raikage on panel

So youre still wrong either way


PradyumnaR said:


> Again you so wish fully misinterpret it so you can get a chance to insert face emojis..


Im inserting face emojis at your other nonsense as well

Dont smokescreen


PradyumnaR said:


> Kisame " has" so much Chakra because he never runs out of it which is because of samehada which feeds him the drained Chakra. Not without it.


Wrong

,


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> There was a thread here a few weeks ago with KCM Naruto (with co-op) vs EMS Sasuke..But almost everyone rooted for Naruto on that one



Someone's bullshit must have really stuck with me.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

PradyumnaR said:


> Kisame " has" so much Chakra because he never runs out of it which is because of samehada which feeds him the drained Chakra. Not without it.


Actually Samehada constantly feeds on his user's chakra as well..So unless Kisame has ridiculous amounts of Chakra he can't really wield the sword


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 1, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Not your bro
> 
> And sure you werent
> 
> ...


Okay you made your point. I was wrong.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> Actually Samehada constantly feeds on his user's chakra as well..So unless Kisame has ridiculous amounts of Chakra he can't really wield the sword


Understood.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (Apr 1, 2018)

"speedster
noun informal
a person or thing that operates well at high speed, for example a fast car".

Kakashi's speed has been explicitly praised by both _Obito and Nagato_ before the war even began. How he doesn't qualify as a speedster in the traditional sense is beyond me. Sure, if you compare him to arguably the former fastest man in the world (Ei), he's not that impressive speed wise-but there's absolutely nothing inaccurate about my statement.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Santoryu said:


> "speedster
> noun informal
> a person or thing that operates well at high speed, for example a fast car".
> 
> Kakashi's speed has been explicitly praised by both _Obito and Nagato_ before the war even began. How he doesn't qualify as a speedster in the traditional sense is beyond me. Sure, if you compare him to arguably the former fastest man in the world (Ei), he's not that impressive speed wise-but there's absolutely nothing inaccurate about my statement.



Yes Kakashi is fast but there are so many characters who are actually revered for their speed like Naruto, Sasuke, Minato, Guy, Tobirama, Raikage..There are even non speedsters like pre Rinnegan Madara, Killer Bee and Itachi who can outspeed Kakashi in battle..It really depends on where you draw the line when it comes to who qualifies as a speedster


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 1, 2018)

Santoryu said:


> "speedster
> noun informal
> a person or thing that operates well at high speed, for example a fast car".
> 
> Kakashi's speed has been explicitly praised by both _Obito and Nagato_ before the war even began. How he doesn't qualify as a speedster in the traditional sense is beyond me. Sure, if you compare him to arguably the former fastest man in the world (Ei), he's not that impressive speed wise-but there's absolutely nothing inaccurate about my statement.



Speedster is for characters with exceptional speed. 

Kakashi is probably not even fast for a high jonin or Kage level character. To be a speedster you would need to have speed far above what's generally expected of someone at your level and Kakashi doesn't perform beyond his rank in that department.


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 1, 2018)

Lol, Obito can phase out of a genjutsu and can escape Tsukuyomi


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## Santoryu (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> Yes Kakashi is fast but there are so many characters who are actually revered for their speed like Naruto, Sasuke, Minato, Guy, Tobirama, Raikage..There are even non speedsters like pre Rinnegan Madara, Killer Bee and Itachi who can outspeed Kakashi in battle..It really depends on *where you draw the line when it comes to who qualifies as a speedster*



How many characters are in the manga? Consider proportion and context. 

The bold. Precisely, where you draw the line. The semantic structure of the words "speedster" aligns fine with my post when comparing Hebi Sasuke and Kakashi. The author himself explicitly praised both characters for their speed on multiple occasions. Naruto's final form is significantly faster than the Raikage, yes? Yet Raikage would still be considered a speedster.
Minato with hiraishin is significantly faster than Sasuke, yes? Yet Sasuke would still be considered a speedster. You get the idea. I'd say Madara and Itachi qualify as "speedsters" too. Now if you want to limit the term "speedster" to simply the fastest characters in the verse (Naruto/8 Gai etc), Raikage should never be mentioned alongside them. There is a far bigger gap in speed between 8G Gai and the Raikage than there is between Kakashi and the Raikage for example.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## narut0ninjafan (Apr 1, 2018)

Kisame having bijuu level strength 

Iron sand being able to tank a bijuudama


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## Bonly (Apr 1, 2018)

The first that comes to mind are

-Kakashi having Genjutsu on the same lvl as Obito. People act like any/every Genjutsu will always be at the same lvl no more what and people forget that different Genjutsu have different effects and people forget that Obito was purposely trying to lose. 
-Jiraiya being able to sense attacks before put up the perfect counter without knowledge and better then Sage Mode Naruto or Kabuto have done on panel
-KCM Naruto spamming clones upon which all of them are using FRS
-KCM Naruto who spams Shunshin so that he's faster then V2 A all the time
-Sage Mode Naruto being able to use jutsu he's never done by himself before
-Naruto being friends with Kurama meaning all of his attacks are about to get 10 times bigger/better despite the manga not showing much of a difference when Naruto isn't low on chakra
-Konan being able to use her 600 billion bombs on the fly whenever she wants
-Most things silnaem say about Hidan such as him being immune to Ninjutsu and being able to break out of any Genjutsu for example
-Kisame being able to absorb any type of ninjutsu through his skin when he got cut by Hien
-Perfect Jins being immune to Genjutsu when we've seen B and Yagura under Genjutsu

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## FlamingRain (Apr 1, 2018)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> -Tsunade regrowing her head





RahulPK04 said:


> Tsunade = Majin Buu confirmed





Santoryu said:


> Tsunade regrowing a head



.........She can do it and you know it.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Kai (Apr 1, 2018)

About half of the nonsense posters spew about SM Naruto. SM Naruto is almost a myth in the BD, possibly reaching fanfic levels.


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Kai said:


> About half of the nonsense posters spew about SM Naruto. SM Naruto is almost a myth in the BD, possibly reaching fanfic levels.



Any particular example that you thought was too much


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

Another one

Adult gaaras sand constructs are PS levels

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Azula (Apr 1, 2018)

The Idea that "100% Kurama" Bijuudama > "50% Kurama"-BM Naruto Bijuudama.

That's just lazy and wrong argument. I am no size comparison expert but just by a cursory glance it's clear that BM Naruto's attack is far far bigger than the former.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Bonly (Apr 1, 2018)

Everyone and their mothers being able to fight against Sharingan Genjutsu perfectly fine despite it being portrayed as quite the problem

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 1, 2018)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> -Hidan being immune to genjutsu via Jashin being his partner

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Serene Grace (Apr 1, 2018)

Kisame having Bjuii level strength when his ass got shut down by a midget toad


Obito's kamui being unavoidable

Anything sharingan genjutsu related

Ay's linear shunsin being so slow in comparison to his sidestep shunsin that Minato physically reacting to the former is someone not impressive to Sasuke barely reacting to the latter. oh Hebi Sasuke = Minato reactions 

ST being strong enough to oneshot SS

Reactions: Like 1


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## Serene Grace (Apr 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> will send ET to the opponent who will get nuked


If they're linked to his chakra he can do this

no more fanfic than people saying once Minato tags people he sends them to an ocean or a lake



Hussain said:


> Or the trash-bin worthy argument of how no one could even dream of touching Hashirama in battle


It's true though. Outside of god tiers, nobody is touching a full powered bloodlusted Hashirama


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## Kai (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> Any particular example that you thought was too much


Being consistently ranked above Minato, Itachi, Tobirama, Kiler B, and equal to Pain is just some of the bullshit. Beating the same opponents as CM Naruto like no differences exist. Leaping tiers in *SM* from befriending Kurama being completely baseless. Hell, I've even seen serious debates of War SM Naruto fighting SM Kabuto from several posters.

Just read what many people who support SM Naruto in any thread say about his feats, or "scaling" feats from Pain Arc to War Arc. Head canon rules them all the way from start to end.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Serene Grace (Apr 1, 2018)

Kai said:


> Itachi


Nothing wrong with war arc Naruto being above Itachi

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Kai (Apr 1, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Nothing wrong with war arc Naruto being above Itachi


Believing PA Naruto loses to Itachi but WA Naruto wins would actually put you in the minority anyways.

Many of the same advocates believe Naruto surpassed Itachi once Sage Mode was acquired, which is nonsense.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Disagree 1


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## Serene Grace (Apr 1, 2018)

Kai said:


> Believing PA Naruto loses to Itachi but WA Naruto wins would actually put you in the minority anyways.
> 
> Many of the same advocates believe Naruto surpassed Itachi once Sage Mode was acquired, which is nonsense.


Did they really? Pein arc Naruto is inferior to Itachi by feats and portrayal. Best he can do is stalemate with an MS Sasuke who is already inferior to Itachi.

Don't know who said that

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Trojan (Apr 1, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> no more fanfic than people saying once Minato tags people he sends them to an ocean or a lake


Minato did send stuff to the ocean on panel. 
Also, they assume Tobirama's ET will have some good reaction to pull the explosions off. They also assume Tobirama can fight
and control ET at the same time, when better users (Oro & Kabuto) can't/couldn't


Serene Grace said:


> It's true though. Outside of god tiers, nobody is touching a full powered bloodlusted Hashirama



No, this is just horse shit. 
Momoshiki could fart and kill Hashirama, yet Darui was taking him on with his sword
Boruto made him fall to his ass with his tiny Rasengan.

Kaguya could sneeze and send Hashirama to hell, and yet she got smashed by Sakura

JJ Obito destroyed Hashi even tho he was not fighting him (through the TBBs) and yet Naruto & co got him several times with clean attacks

and the list goes on.

People just love the taste of Hashi's cum. 
Who is Hashirama to not get attacked by no one?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Kai (Apr 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Momoshiki could fart and kill Hashirama, yet Darui was taking him on with his sword


Serene said "outside of god tiers."

God Tiers were present at all times during those fights  ck



			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> Boruto made him fall to his ass with his tiny Rasengan.


God Tiers on Boruto's side.



			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> Kaguya could sneeze and send Hashirama to hell, and yet she got smashed by Sakura


Again, more god tiers - in fact, the biggest gathering of them in one fight 



			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> JJ Obito destroyed Hashi even tho he was not fighting him (through the TBBs) and yet Naruto & co got him several times with clean attacks


No God Tiers here and I agree. Minato, Tobirama, Naruto, and Sasuke would soundly beat Hashirama.

Problem?


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Best he can do is stalemate with an MS Sasuke who is already inferior to Itachi.


I thought the general consensus was that MS Sasuke > Itachi

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Kai (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> I thought the general consensus was that MS Sasuke > Itachi


This needs to be rectified immediately

The BD will never be better than its past if this is a real consensus


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## Trojan (Apr 1, 2018)

Kai said:


> Serene said "outside of god tiers."
> 
> God Tiers were present at all times during those fights ck



I wasn't comparing Momoshiki to Hashirama in a fight between them. ck



Kai said:


> God Tiers on Boruto's side.



Chojiro & Onoki's granddaughter severely damaged Kinshiki who was smashing Rinnegan Sasuke around as well.

Are they "god tiers" on your book? ck


Shin trolled Naruto & Sasuke at the same time, is he? ck

Also, Naruto & Sasuke played ZERO role on Bolt's Rasengan anyway. ck



Kai said:


> Again, more god tiers - in fact, the biggest gathering of them in one fight


I am not saying "Kaguya will hit Hashirama"
I am saying Kaguya was attacked by freaking SAKURA. By your logic (and other Hashi's worshippers)
how did SAKURA attack Kaguya from all characters? Shouldn't that be impossible? More impossible than how people will never
accept that Sakura could even dream of being 10 miles away from Hashirama, let alone hit him? ck


Edit:
unless you mean Sakura had her team with her. Which is irrelevant anyway. Because all of them are weaker than Kaguya. It's no different than characters being weaker than Hashirama and attacking him, but on a smaller scale. 

Heck, look no further than Edo Asspulldara who got attacked several times and were driven into a corner. He needed his PS twice to win despite all the advantages he had. 




Kai said:


> No God Tiers here and I agree. Minato, Tobirama, Naruto, and Sasuke would soundly beat Hashirama.
> 
> Problem?




Again, I am not talking about "god tiers" facing Hashirama.

I am talking about how those alleged "gods" were attacked (and defeated) by far weaker opponents.

On oppose on how some foolish people think Hashirama can never even be touched by anyone that is not JJ Obito or higher. Even if he were against 30+ Kages at the same time or even all 5 villages.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 1, 2018)

Some random ones that come to mind;
- Samehada absorbing Amaterasu when it had trouble absorbing part of a low level Katon
- Kisame having Kinshiki level physical strength 
- WA Kakashi being able to shrug off Tsukuyomi with ease

Reactions: Like 1


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 1, 2018)

Biggest that comes to mind is Kisame's absorption abilities being close to NLF.

The same applies to Nagato - a debate about whether he can absorb and survive Bijuudama makes my head hurt. 

Another has to be the general power level granted to Hiruzen by hype lovers who never displayed any exceptional features or combat accomplishments in the manga. Completely disregarding the fact that the author completely abandoned it, barely mentioned him at all after Part I because he was no longer special in his story, and the retcon of his portrayal after the power creep as he named Hashirama the strongest kage in Part II and heavily implied Minato as the second strongest in hype ("no one could surpass him" (Ei, Kakashi, Jiraiya), Child of the Prophecy, Flee on Sight orders in a world war, fought A & B to stalemates, beat Obito & Kyuubi) and feature.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Kai (Apr 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> I wasn't comparing Momoshiki to Hashirama in a fight between them. ck


Were Naruto and Sasuke not fighting together with the Kage, which includes Darui?

Are Naruto and Sasuke not god tiers?

Case in point 




			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> Chojiro & Onoki's granddaughter severely damaged Kinshiki who was smashing Rinnegan Sasuke around as well.
> 
> Are they "god tiers" on your book? ck


They stopped his movements. A god tier in Sasuke was with them as well.






			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> Shin trolled Naruto & Sasuke at the same time, is he? ck


You know bringing up Shin ain't fair 
He should be mentioned in a different breath than these guys.



			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> Also, Naruto & Sasuke played ZERO role on Bolt's Rasengan anyway. ck


Zero?
Sasuke brought Boruto closer to Momo and provided the initial distraction by attacking Momo. The whole Rasengan was augmented by Naruto.

If my math is correct that counts as two god tiers ck





			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> I am not saying "Kaguya will hit Hashirama"
> I am saying Kaguya was attacked by freaking SAKURA. By your logic (and other Hashi's worshippers)
> how did SAKURA attack Kaguya from all characters? Shouldn't that be impossible?


Her entire team were god tiers.




			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> Again, I am not talking about "god tiers" facing Hashirama.
> 
> I am talking about how those alleged "gods" were attacked (and defeated) by far weaker opponents.


I heard you loud and clear.

My point, which caters to Serene's, is that god tiers were always with said far weaker opponents.


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> Another has to be the general power level granted to Hiruzen by hype lovers who never displayed any exceptional features or combat accomplishments in the manga. Completely disregarding the fact that the author completely abandoned it, barely mentioned him at all after Part I because he was no longer special in his story


Thanks man..Was waiting for someone to address this


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## Serene Grace (Apr 1, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Also, they assume Tobirama's ET will have some good reaction to pull the explosions off.


Good reactions? Ask JJ Obito how good they are 



Hussain said:


> They also assume Tobirama can fight
> and control ET at the same time, when better users *(Oro & Kabuto) can't/couldn't*


When was this ever established? 



Hussain said:


> yet Darui was taking him on with his sword


When momo got serious he fodderstomped the entire gokage at once, he also forced Naruto to transform to compete with 



Hussain said:


> Boruto made him fall to his ass with his tiny Rasengan.


>Tiny ass Rasengan

You mean the rasengan that was amped to hell by his god tier father 



Hussain said:


> Naruto & co got him several times with clean attacks


JJ Obito would have raped them as well if it wasn't for PIS and multiple kages and the entire fucking SA backing them up 

The hashirama you're also referring to was outright stated by to be brought back weaker  



Hussain said:


> Kaguya could sneeze and send Hashirama to hell, and yet she got smashed by Sakura


She didn't pay any attention her, that was obviously the context hence why Sakura outright said "don't ignore me" 



Hussain said:


> People just love the taste of Hashi's cum.
> Who is Hashirama to not get attacked by no one?


No, I'm stating facts. Hashi can beat literally anyone outside of god tiers 1 v 1 

list who can actually beat him


RahulPK04 said:


> I thought the general consensus was that MS Sasuke > Itachi


Itachi has:

superior defence
Superior offence
superior genjutsu
superior intelligence
Above him in almost every physical stat
All Sasuke has is superior stamina and ninjutsu diversity

He loses to Itachi as well, what general consensus said this

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Apr 1, 2018)

Kai said:


> Were Naruto and Sasuke not fighting together with the Kage, which includes Darui?
> 
> Are Naruto and Sasuke not god tiers?
> 
> Case in point



Being merely there does not mean those Kages had them at every turn of the fight. It's not like Darui had their help when he was fighting Momoshiki at that moment.


Here, it was the Kages who saved Sasuke to begin with




And they carried on the rest for the most part on their own






And then Sasuke returned the favor when Kin was about to attack them again, and they sealed the deal. No need to post every single panel. Either way, they saved him once, and he did once. 

As for Momoshiki
 [/SPOILER]
*Spoiler*: _1_ 








It wasn't Naruto or Sasuke who allowed Darui and Gaara to get that close, now were they? 
heck, Momoshiki had to retreat as well


Naruto and Sasuke did not do anything here. They just stood there to corner him. 



Kai said:


> You know bringing up Shin ain't fair
> He should be mentioned in a different breath than these guys.



Hima stompped Naruto as well. 




Kai said:


> Zero?
> Sasuke brought Boruto closer to Momo and provided the initial distraction. The Rasengan was augmented by Naruto.
> 
> If my math is correct that counts as two god tiers ck



I see none of that. 
Show me how they influenced his Rasengan here. 









I don't see them doing shit. 




Kai said:


> Her entire team were god tiers.


Did not stop her from smashing Kaguya's horn when Sasuke's PS couldn't. 
Did not stop her from Saving Sasuke's ass (with Obito) 

and again, it's the same shit on a smaller scale. 




Kai said:


> My point, which caters to Serene's, is that god tiers were always with said far weaker opponents.



dear Kai. Your favourite character, Obito (I assume), who is ENTIRE FIGHTING STYLE revolved about him NOT being touched, got touched/smashed in his battle (Minato, Konan and even Fu & his fodder partner )



Can you show me from where you got that Hashirama is the only character who can't be touched in battle?
Or what battle has he had that he was not touched by it? Surely you wouldn't site the war he got killed by fodders?

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Trojan (Apr 1, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Good reactions? Ask JJ Obito how good they are


1- Tobirama was en ET at almost full power, who only survived because he is an et
2- Hashi had to stop Obito for that to work, something is not taking into consideration in Tobirama's fight where they assume the opponent won't move.
3- Tobirama will not be the one doing the explosion on his own. But rather his FODDER ET. See how Hashirama & Tobirama were in part 1. Now, think of an even weaker ET with much weaker fodders. It does not look good, does it? 


Serene Grace said:


> When was this ever established?


Can you show us them fighting and controlling ET at the same time? Kabuto even when he was not fighting, he could only control (under full control) 1 ET at the time, and even then he loses focus sometimes (like how he forgot about itachi, or thought he will capture Naruto being attacking his CLONE). let alone battling and controlling at the same time.


Serene Grace said:


> When momo got serious he fodderstomped the entire gokage at once, he also forced Naruto to transform to compete with





Serene Grace said:


> >Tiny ass Rasengan
> 
> You mean the rasengan that was amped to hell by his god tier father



already replied to Kai. go look at it.



Serene Grace said:


> JJ Obito would have raped them as well if it wasn't for PIS and multiple kages and the entire fucking SA backing them up
> 
> The hashirama you're also referring to was outright stated by to be brought back weaker



It's not like PIS wasn't used to his favor either. He wouldn't have even existed at the time without PIS. 

"almost at full power" and he showed his strongest moves (besides SS)



Serene Grace said:


> She didn't pay any attention her, that was obviously the context hence why Sakura outright said "don't ignore me"



She had the Byakugan activated. 



Serene Grace said:


> No, I'm stating facts. Hashi can beat literally anyone outside of god tiers 1 v 1
> 
> list who can actually beat him



Well, anyone can defeat anyone depending on the plot and what it needs. 
If SHIN can defeat Naruto & Sasuke, Hashirama can also defeat other characters.

I am only taking about the ridiculousness of people thinking he won't even be touched and other horseshit like that.


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> What are some of the absurd fanfic abilities and feats posters use in the battledome for specific characters??


"Kisame>Hashirama"
-Troyse22

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Crimson Flam3s (Apr 1, 2018)

Orochimaru's ET always being considered part of his regular/full power, ignoring the fact that it needs prep and the fact that he lost them after fighting Hiruzen. Even when he did ET during the war arc, they were never geared towards battle or fitted with personality suppressing talisman.

It's no different than Konan and her 600 billion explosive tags needing prep, and unless a character is stated to have prep or be the version of the character that possessed this prep, then it shouldn't count as part of their regular ability, specially if it was a short lived jutsu that was lost after it's first usage on panel.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Maverick04 (Apr 1, 2018)

Polandfan said:


> "Kisame>Hashirama"
> -Troyse22


This never gets old


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## Crimson Flam3s (Apr 1, 2018)

Polandfan said:


> "Kisame>Hashirama"
> -Troyse22



But Kisame is > Hashirama

What can Hashirama do against Daikodan which will absorb his ninjutsu or Kisame casually spitting out lakes for the lulz which will drown out Hashi's puny forests?

Nothing.

He will do nothing, and he is going to perish.


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Apr 1, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> This never gets old


Yeah. He is angry while someone is joking about him(he gave me 2/3 dislikes), but he gives reasons by himself to make jokes.


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Apr 1, 2018)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> But Kisame is > Hashirama
> 
> What can Hashirama do against Daikodan which will absorb his ninjutsu or Kisame casually spitting out lakes for the lulz which will drown out Hashi's puny forests?
> 
> ...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kai (Apr 1, 2018)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> Orochimaru's ET always being considered part of his regular/full power, ignoring the fact that it needs prep and the fact that he lost them after fighting Hiruzen. Even when he did ET during the war arc, they were never geared towards battle or fitted with personality suppressing talisman.
> 
> It's no different than Konan and her 600 billion explosive tags needing prep, and unless a character is stated to have prep or be the version of the character that possessed this prep, then it shouldn't count as part of their regular ability, specially if it was a short lived jutsu that was lost after it's first usage on panel.


Nine Tails is considered a regular part of EMS Madara's power despite being used just once in combat and then never again.

How do you reconcile this notion?


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## Crimson Flam3s (Apr 1, 2018)

Kai said:


> Nine Tails is considered a regular part of EMS Madara's power despite being used just once in combat and then never again.
> 
> How do you reconcile this notion?



I have never seen anyone bring up the 9 tails when discussing living EMS Madara or Obito for that matter.

However there it shouldn't be an issue, considering that the 9 tails was part of his power thanks to Genjutsu GG, as long as OP clarifies, or it's understood by everyone that this is the living version of EMS Madara that fought Hashi.

Characters with many versions of themselves will obviously have overlapping abilities or abilities lost and only specific to one scenario, which could make it confusing, so the best way to deal with this, is by having the OP clarify which version of character is intended to be discussed.

When the OP simply puts "Kakashi vs Oro" with no further information, then people could bring up anything ranging from Armless Oro, Invasion Oro, WA Kakashi, DMS Kakashi, which just adds to the confusion.

Edit:

Case in point as demon demonstrated by this gentlemen @Avalon


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Apr 1, 2018)

Next absurd is Orochimaru can rip Kisame to shreds.


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 1, 2018)

Is it not a lie MS Sasuke was at or above Itachi? 

Itachi was doing better than him in the Kabuto fight and that was a weakened, edo Itachi. 

Sasuke's physical abilities were basically on par with a blind and sick Itachi during their fight. Blind and sick on top of holding back. 

And since it was EMS Sasuke underperforming in the Kabuto fight, that means Sasuke never really reached Itachi's level before he juggled Hagoromo's balls to get a power up.


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Apr 1, 2018)

Again. Stop giving me dislikes Troy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## oiety (Apr 1, 2018)

Posted it before but I don't plan on stopping. It's like the Sharingan getting more than it's fair share of "benefits of the doubt."



oiety said:


> Gengetsu's and Mu's clam genjutsu and invisibility-people always claim the sharingan could see right through it, but I've yet to see anything supporting this. Mu was literally called the Mujin, because he had no form of chakra signature-what is there for the Sharingan to see? The Clam Genjutsu is a battlefield wide mirage-if it could be broken with partner method, surely one of the many shinobi in the army would have broken it that way, and since Mu is an amazing sensor, if sensing worked through it (which it doesn't, as was by a shinobi after it was broken-note the "It's not a Mirage Genjutsu AND he can't make himself dissapear, hyping Mu as well), then there's no way they could have stalemated.
> TL: DR-Nidaimes underrated when it comes to Sharingan.


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## Marvel (Apr 1, 2018)

Hidan is immune to damage even thigh he got blown apart by paper bombs.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Crimson Flam3s (Apr 1, 2018)

oiety said:


> Posted it before but I don't plan on stopping. It's like the Sharingan getting more than it's fair share of "benefits of the doubt."



This is a good one and I have always been 50/50 about him being immune to the Sharingan.

Reactions: Like 1


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## oiety (Apr 1, 2018)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> This is a good one and I have always been 50/50 about him being immune to the Sharingan.



At least someone else is on the fence about it. Too many times is it just immediately said that "____'s Sharingan can find Mu, so they tag and bag" or variants of that.


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## wooly Eullerex (Apr 1, 2018)

-hebi sasuke can get meaningful utilization out of manda after summoning him in the midst of whatever match up
-samehada absorbs ninjutsu
-katsuyu can defend/is immune to elemental ninjutsu
-there are power levels in naruto
-kakuzus jutsu are slow & do very little damage/scuffed kakashis jacket
-hidan outclassed/dominated asuma in cqc
-chiyo & sakura dodged iron sand
-kusanagis performance vs kn4 naruto was a negative/doesn't have the ''necessary feats'' to be better than normal sword
-kisame can breathe water without fusing samehada/has anime gills
-gai gets more durable in gates
-sniper kamui will go thru Shinra tensei
-raiden is a good jutsu/can cut thru ribcage susano'o
-air wall palm affects tenketsu/internal organs
-juugo can actually beat someone/ anyone ever


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 1, 2018)

Ablaze said:


> Obito has hashirama's dna.
> Seriously, that gets me everytime.



He does lol.
What the Zetsu were grown out of is still Hashirama clone tree meat.

The _why _was changed of them not the _what_.


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 1, 2018)

walpurgis Burgoo said:


> -hebi sasuke can get meaningful utilization out of manda after summoning him in the midst of whatever match up
> -samehada absorbs ninjutsu
> -there are power levels in naruto
> -kakuzus jutsu are slow & do very little damage/scuffed kakashis jacket
> ...



-He can genjutsu Manda
-We saw it absorb Itachi's fireball and B's raiton
-How aren't there?
-These are both demonstrably true
-Chiyo did, Sakura was with Chiyo's help
-It doesn't. There's no evidence it's sharper than a normal sword. So, its perks are just extending and multiplying.
-Gates increase his pain tolerance. So, he's effectively more durable since he doesn't care about all the tissue damage that would paralyze a normal body.
-It's composed of "juken chakra" and is used to hit the vital spots from afar, what the hell do you think that's supposed to mean if not tenketsu and chakra network?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Itachi has:
> 
> superior defence


They both have V4 susanoo and Yata isnt omnidirectional

So no he doesnt really


Serene Grace said:


> Superior offence


This is a joke

Sasuke oneshotted Itachis susanoo on panel

Itachi has nothing even remotely in the same tier as Kirin

Sasukes kagutsuchi manes his black flames more potent than itachis

And outside of MS sasuke has the more dangerous arsenal by far

So no...Again...


Serene Grace said:


> superior genjutsu


Which is 100% irrelevant anyway and this is you trying to inflate your numbers as it were

Sasuke busted out of tsukuyomi on panel, which means a genjutsu fight between them is worthless

Itachi going for a genjutsu EVEN TSUKUYOMI actually puts him in the hole...As sasuke breaks it no worse for wear, and Itachi takes a huge hit to his reserves and constitution and is immediately nerfed

So this is a dumb point to make


Serene Grace said:


> superior intelligence


Barely if at all  

But this is the first legit point youve made so far so kudos to you


Serene Grace said:


> Above him in almost every physical stat


Lol

They are roughly equal in physical stats such as speed at this point 

But even if Itachi was a tier faster in speed, it doesnt matter as sasuek can react to fighter >>>>Itachi in speed

Making it moot

And when it comes to strength/durability...Thats irrelevent anyway as this is gonna be a ninjutsu slugfest given how neither of the 2 possess any emphasis on physical combat

With the ironic exception of sasuke, who has kenjutsu above that of itachi

IF this fight did come down to physical vs physical...Sasuke would win more often than not due to raiton and kenjutsu...Itachi couldnt defend even if he wanted to, he would need to dodge



Serene Grace said:


> All Sasuke has is superior stamina


FAR superior stamina

And this is all he needs to win 

Because at absolute worst, sasuek can stalemate Itachis every jutsu if not outright overpower it, and from there strain does itachi in FOR sasuke

Itachi isnt even permitted to fight conservatively against sasuke...Sasuke takes the initiative as he did against Danzo and starts off with something OP like susanoo from the jump...Itachis only retort unless he wants to be crushed like a ketchup packet, is to use his own susanoo...Sasuek then keeps pressuring him until itachi gets winded and drops his technique out of necessity...Same strat he used on Danzo 



If sasuek can outlast an immortal hes outlasting the man with ninja aids

What exactly does itachi do against this strategy?


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## Marvel (Apr 2, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Sasukes kagutsuchi manes his black flames more potent than itachis


Kagutschi isn’t  offensive though it’s defensive



WorldsStrongest said:


> They both have V4 susanoo and Yata isnt omnidirectiona


They both have V4 Susanoo manumission their defense is equal but adding Yata Mirror means Itachi has superior defense.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

Levi Ackerman said:


> Kagutschi isn’t offensive though


 


Levi Ackerman said:


> They both have V4 Susanoo manumission their defense is equal but adding Yata Mirror means Itachi has superior defense


As i said, Yata isnt omnidirectional 

And Kirin 1 shots regardless

Evcen then tho, Yata can be omnidirectional AND make itachi 100% invincible and hed still lose to stall tactics that are IC for sasuke to employ as ive already outlined

NOTHING in itachis arsenal is busting even a V3 susanoo...Let alone sasukes own V4...



Meaning, sasuke can maintain a lower form against itachis higher forms of susanoo and , and he already has a stamina advantage...Meaning itachi digs his own grave like twice as fast


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## Marvel (Apr 2, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> As i said, Yata isnt omnidirectional
> 
> And Kirin 1 shots regardless
> 
> ...



My bad I forgot Kagustchi was Enton lol.

Whether or not Iatcbi can be one shotted isn’t the question though it’s who has better defense and they are tied with Susanoo and adding in Yata Mirror tips the scale in Itachi’s favor.

It’s not how Saskue could beat Itachi it’s how their respective strengths in categories stack up to each other.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

Levi Ackerman said:


> My bad I forgot Kagustchi was Enton lol.


:ho


Levi Ackerman said:


> Whether or not Iatcbi can be one shotted isn’t the question though it’s who has better defense


Then either way its at best a situational win for Itachi

And otherwise they are equal

And besides in terms of 1v1 who has the better defense...Id interpret that as which fighter can take more punishment from the other fighter...In which case Sasuke wins by a mile as he could let itachi swing at his V3 all day....And nothing is gonna happen, meanwhile Sasuek can bust Itachis 

So...


Levi Ackerman said:


> It’s not how Saskue could beat Itachi it’s how their respective strengths in categories stack up to each other


Actually Grace was posting on how Itachi beats sasuke by beating him categorically

I just refuted that is all


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## Marvel (Apr 2, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> :ho
> 
> Then either way its at best a situational win for Itachi
> 
> ...



Oh ok my bad.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

Jackalinthebox said:


> MS Sasuke being an extremely good counter for multiple of Itachi's abilities means the latter can't be overall stronger? Come on now


At best itachi would beat Edo versions of the same people sasuke could take while alive...As sasuke lacks fuinjutsu...

And even that is iffy...Because amaterasu does counter edo regen so you could argue sasuke beats SOME edos with that

He isnt overall stronger as he cant beat anybody sasuke himself cant also beat

And he loses to sasuek in a direct confrontation more often than not on top of that

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 2, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> At best itachi would beat Edo versions of the same people sasuke could take while alive...As sasuke lacks fuinjutsu...
> 
> And even that is iffy...Because amaterasu does counter edo regen so you could argue sasuke beats SOME edos with that
> 
> ...


Itachi has an overall superior V4 Susano'o, far better Genjutsu, is more intelligent, has slightly better combat speed, much better hand seal speed, possesses more mastery over the Mangekyo & the gap in chakra reserves isn't that big 

MS Sasuke is a bad match up for Itachi...however, the former is still a bit weaker.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Itachi has an overall superior V4 Susano'o, far better Genjutsu, is more intelligent, has slightly better combat speed, much better hand seal speed, possesses more mastery over the Mangekyo & the gap in chakra reserves isn't that big
> 
> MS Sasuke is a bad match up for Itachi...however, the former is still a bit weaker.


Most of this is stuff ive already refuted...Like "within the last 30 minutes ago" refuted

Also...


Jackalinthebox said:


> the gap in chakra reserves isn't that big


Lol

Its massive

To the point a single MS cast instantly and negatively impacts itachi in the long run, whereas sasuek can use 2 at once and keep fighting with no actual notable side effects...And then keep doing that...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 2, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Most of this is stuff ive already refuted...Like "within the last 30 minutes ago" refuted
> 
> Also...
> 
> ...


You actually didn't refute much of anything. Most of your post was just explaining how Sasuke has a bunch of perfect counters for Itachi

Saying "Yata Mirror isn't omnidirectional so his defense isn't better" is a downright dumb claim to make btw

Or "Itachi having better Genjutsu is 100% irrelevant" because yes, having much better Genjutsu is irrelevant to their overall level of strength 


You also act like IC Sasuke is likely to pull out Kirin when we damn well know he's gonna opt for spamming the Mangekyo instead. The majority of your basis for Sauce having a superior arsenal is Kirin, but Kirin is a very situational tech & Sauce completely discarded it after awakening the Mangekyo

As for the chakra thing, we literally saw Itachi outlast Sasuke in their fight. Yet Sasuke somehow has insanely more chakra. Not to mention Sauce was exhausted after using the Mangekyo a handful of times...which is the exact same amount Itachi used vs his bro

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 2, 2018)

Wow, people still trying to pull feats for Sasuke from that fight with Itachi. 

Sasuke was allowed to escape Tsukuyomi and both Itachi and Sasuke were only momentarily winded from that experience. 

Itachi could summon armored Susano'o, sense attacks, and defend hinself while blinded by mangekyo usage. Sasuke spit up blood when he tried to summon armored Susano'o and never tried to summon it in battle again despite the obvious boost in power it gives his Susano'o. 

Kirin was set up by Itachi and Sasuke's combined effort. Sasuke can't make such a kirin on his own without spending at least twice as long as he spent to make it in his fight with Itachi. So, he either waits forever and hopes his enemy doesn't notice or he just settles for a kirin that is, most likely, on the size of a regular ninjutsu like fireball. 

The Kabuto fight shows how unskilled Sasuke was compared to Itachi. Sasuke was useless in that fight. 



Kabuto not sensing Amaterasu is also some fanfic bullshit. Either Sasuke misses on purpose because he was only trying to make a wall or Kabuto sensed it and that's why he didn't put his foot down when it appeared. 

Either way, that doesn't indicate Kabuto didn't sense it. 

Unless you're trying to say Kabuto would have done some acrobat shit and jumped through the flames using his sensing. Which is more fanfic.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

Jackalinthebox said:


> You actually didn't refute much of anything. Most of your post was just explaining how Sasuke has a bunch of perfect counters for Itachi


And in doing so explaining why itachi isnt better overall

Itachi having an edge in a few stats (if even) doesnt equate to being better overall

They are literally right next to one another in terms of placement in power...

Anyone one can beat, so can the other...With a few situational exceptions


Jackalinthebox said:


> Saying "Yata Mirror isn't omnidirectional so his defense isn't better" is a downright dumb claim to make btw


>Its a shield
>Shields arent omnidirectional
>We outright witness Yata fail to protect susanoo from different angles of attack
>"What a dumb thing to say"

Jesus i didnt know a human being could put that much of their own foot that far in their mouth

Im impressed


Jackalinthebox said:


> Or "Itachi having better Genjutsu is 100% irrelevant" because yes, having much better Genjutsu is irrelevant to their overall level of strength


Hes better in genjutsu the same way sasuke is better in stamina

Both are part of "overall strength"

That doesnt equate to either one beiong vastly above the other because of an advantage in a stat or two

As ive said, i dont put sasuke above Itachi overall

Nor do i do the opposite

They are right next to each other


Jackalinthebox said:


> You also act like IC Sasuke is likely to pull out Kirin when we damn well know he's gonna opt for spamming the Mangekyo instead


Not just that

Gavce other reasons why hed beat Itachis superior (if even) susanoo as well


Jackalinthebox said:


> The majority of your basis for Sauce having a superior arsenal is Kirin


No it really isnt

Thats one claim i made


Jackalinthebox said:


> As for the chakra thing, we literally saw Itachi outlast Sasuke in their fight


A weaker sasuke

So thats irrelevant


Jackalinthebox said:


> Yet Sasuke somehow has insanely more chakra


Because he does 

And thats blatantly shown 


Jackalinthebox said:


> Not to mention Sauce was exhausted after using the Mangekyo a handful of times


Sure bud

"A handful of times"

Sasukes stamina feats on one breath




Lets not even go over how much he spammed susanoo against Danzo


Jackalinthebox said:


> which is the exact same amount Itachi used vs his bro



Compared to Itachis stamina feats on one breath


...
Faces Jman after a break...Manages...



This was also in part 1 where his illness would have presumably affected him less...

Yeah i dont see a disparity either


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## Sapherosth (Apr 2, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Compared to Itachis stamina feats on one breath
> 
> 
> ...
> ...




Just because Itachi *decided* to stop fighting doesn't mean he couldn't go further. Itachi just wasn't dumb enough to spam his MS and go blind within 1 week. We clearly see that if Itachi WANTED to go to the fullest, he can use all 3 MS jutsu's, kagebunshins & Reforms Susano, and maintain V4 Susano for an extended period of time even whilst sick. 

V4 Susano, based on its size alone should use far more chakra than Sasuke's piss poor V1s & V2s. 

Just because Itachi didn't, doesn't mean he couldn't.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 2, 2018)

Havent read the while thread yet so I hope this isn't repetitive but...

1. Healthy Itachi with way more stamina never existed, he has MORE stamina in part 2 when he has ninja aids from Kimimaro's parties. 

2. Kisame has "biju level strength". It says he has the power of a Jinchuriki, the same thing they said about 3 tails Naruto, does Naruto have biju level strength?

3. Kisame is super durable because he got trashed by a jutsu and cut repeatedly??!?

4. "Because Hashirama" : How does Hashirama escape box land? He's Hashirama. The manga and Databook say Minato and Tobirama are faster? Nope Hashirama is. 
FTG drops him into a TBB? Hashirama regenerates!!
Hashi was killed by fodder in a war and was going to die in cannon from a kunai?  No, no, no that was an author mistake, only God Tiers may touch Hashirama!!

5. Losing an argument? Bring up the Sannin! 
Ex: "Itachi would die if he got slapped around by A4."
 "Yeah, well you probably think TSUNADE could take a hit or two instead of being instantly decapitated like A4 always does"
 "what? he never does that so she would be fine for a while I guess. Anyway this is about Itach-" 
"SANNIN WANKER!"

6. <insert your fave here> can react to the FTG blitz because they have reacted to <insert much slower character than Minato>!! Minato's not even that fast anyway, the databook and the manga are exaggerating!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

Sapherosth said:


> Just because Itachi *decided* to stop fighting


Did itachi "decide" to almost keel over after a single MS use too?

Thats my entire point, itachi doesnt have the constitution to use his own toolkit very reliably

You can argue left and right whether or not he "needed" to withdraw...Thats not the point im making, im saying the man is incredibly affected (and he IS) by a single MS cast...And we see lil bro using multiple after one another, and his abilities dont depreciate after he uses one 

Itachis seemingly do


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## Icegaze (Apr 2, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> Or Kisame absorbing ninjutsu through his skin



But he can though 
Case in point Aoda technique


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

Icegaze said:


> But he can though
> Case in point Aoda technique


Converting chakra being DIRECTLY FUNNELED into you into your own reserves is hardly proof that he can walk through a katon...

Be serious now...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 2, 2018)

Icegaze said:


> But he can though
> Case in point Aoda technique


Kisame flat out states raiton can hurt him, and is cut by it later.


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## LostSelf (Apr 2, 2018)

Sharingan Genjutsu can be easily avoided by just "not looking at the eyes" and that's it.
Kisame matching Gai's striking speed.
Guzma being better than Giovanni.
Manda beating 8th Gated Gai. (Never forget, never forgive)

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> Manda beating 8th Gated Gai. (Never forget, never forgive)


Ive never WANTED to do a spit take...

But you did it

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blu-ray (Apr 2, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> Manda beating 8th Gated Gai. (Never forget, never forgive)


Nothing in this thread prompted me to post save for this. I refuse to believe anyone said this ever.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LostSelf (Apr 2, 2018)

Blu-ray said:


> Nothing in this thread prompted me to post save for this. I refuse to believe anyone said this ever.



Can't find the post, but it was said.

Something like 8th Gated Gai cannot beat Orochimaru because he can't bypass Manda. I know, it's way too crazy but it's true .

Actually, 8th Gated Gai has lost to the three Sannin in the Battledome. First Tsunade, then Orochimaru and then Jiraiya (1 vs 1) just that those who implied it changed their minds with time.

Except for the one who said Manda > Gai.


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## Icegaze (Apr 2, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Kisame flat out states raiton can hurt him, and is cut by it later.



deva has ST can troll FRs but was killed by rasengan 
Minato has S/T can avoid Ay
Don’t mean nothing can touch him
He got Caught by chains even if only For a second 

Case in point kisame can absorb chakra through his skin when he is in water 

Pretty sure he stated that 
The pencil situation was on land so I don’t get the comparison


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## Icegaze (Apr 2, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Kisame flat out states raiton can hurt him, and is cut by it later.



deva has ST can troll FRs but was killed by rasengan 
Minato has S/T can avoid Ay
Don’t mean nothing can touch him
He got Caught by chains even if only For a second 

Case in point kisame can absorb chakra through his skin when he is in water 

Pretty sure he stated that 
The pencil situation was on land so I don’t get the comparison


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## Icegaze (Apr 2, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Converting chakra being DIRECTLY FUNNELED into you into your own reserves is hardly proof that he can walk through a katon...
> 
> Be serious now...



He did so when he was in water 
He can absorb chakra when he is in water 

I however have never stated or implied he can on dry Land without samehada


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## Blu-ray (Apr 2, 2018)

LostSelf said:


> Can't find the post, but it was said.
> 
> Something like 8th Gated Gai cannot beat Orochimaru because he can't bypass Manda. I know, it's way too crazy but it's true .
> 
> ...


I can vaguely recall a Tsunade vs Gai (well her regeneration vs Sekizo anyway) but Gai vs the other 2 ain't ringing any bells.

Though I've seen people argue the three of them (together) beat BM (or was it BSM) Naruto and deathbed Rikudo back when we all though he made the moon by himself on said deathbed. So yeah. I believe it.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 2, 2018)

Icegaze said:


> deva has ST can troll FRs but was killed by rasengan
> Minato has S/T can avoid Ay
> Don’t mean nothing can touch him
> He got Caught by chains even if only For a second
> ...


Him being in water was clearly no mentioned by the person you quoted or you so this seems a bit out of the blue (No pun intended)


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## hbcaptain (Apr 2, 2018)

-MS techniques getting neutralized by sound 4.
-Hidan surviving a direct hit TBB explosion.
-Tsunade surviving C4.
-Jiraya defeating Muu in base.
-Jiraya only losing to Minato with no less than a high diff only because the latter is a bad matchup for him
-Jiraya is as strong as KCM Naruto
-Tobirama is only as strong as a sannin.


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## Maverick04 (Apr 2, 2018)

hbcaptain said:


> Jiraya defeating Muu in base.


This I have seen multiple people claiming.. Apparently they think that just because Jiraiya can use a motion sensing barrier he can apparently 1 shot Muu.


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## Icegaze (Apr 2, 2018)

And yet the pun was funny
@Hi no Ishi

Reactions: Like 1


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## hbcaptain (Apr 2, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> This I have seen multiple people claiming.. Apparently they think that just because Jiraiya can use a motion sensing barrier he can apparently 1 shot Muu.


You can add that only Jiraya can use clone feints and basic tactics to escape and it will work 100% of times giving his name. 
His Jutsu will always hit the target despite them having no more than average speed and power.
And lets not forget Doton Yomi Numa which can be read by no one, even Dojutsu users, and its so unnaturaly fast that it cannot be escaped at all.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## LostSelf (Apr 2, 2018)

Blu-ray said:


> I can vaguely recall a Tsunade vs Gai (well her regeneration vs Sekizo anyway) but Gai vs the other 2 ain't ringing any bells.
> 
> Though I've seen people argue the three of them (together) beat BM (or was it BSM) Naruto and deathbed Rikudo back when we all though he made the moon by himself on said deathbed. So yeah. I believe it.



You can believe me without fear. I'm not lying . 

Sannin beating Juubito was also a thing. But with Oro and the Edo Kages.


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## Blaze Release (Apr 2, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> He does lol.
> What the Zetsu were grown out of is still Hashirama clone tree meat.
> 
> The _why _was changed of them not the _what_.



Honestly my memory of the manga is fading.
Even more so since i paid very little attention to the war arc and cba to go back and read the manga. But if i remember correctly the original white zetsu's that was attached to obito by madara was actually somebody that has long been turned into a white zetsu.

@Blu-ray You seem to know you stuff.
Any help?


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 2, 2018)

Ablaze said:


> Honestly my memory of the manga is fading.
> Even more so since i paid very little attention to the war arc and cba to go back and read the manga. But if i remember correctly the original white zetsu's that was attached to obito by madara was actually somebody that has long been turned into a white zetsu.
> 
> @Blu-ray You seem to know you stuff.
> Any help?


I understand. I have all the volumes and still need a refresher sometimes. 

The tree is still made of cultivated Hashirama cells and is a clone of Hashirama.
Connecting that to the Gedo Mazo amd then himself allowed Madara to live beyond his years and thought originally that that Zetsu crops were growing spontainiously from that. 

What black Zetsu revealed was that he actually bringing out the people who were absorbed into the tree and thus into GM via growing them bodies of Hashi meat.

This is why Yamato and the Hashirama tree sync up, and why that buffs the Zetsu who are still made of Hashirama DNA (which Sakura and Shizune confirm).

It's also why Obito is able to Sync himself and others to GM with out a Rinnegan according to Madara, as well as use Black Recievers.

Tobi Zetsu also explains Obito's massive jump in power is related to this cell attachment when he goes to save Rin and Kakashi.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 2, 2018)

Totsuka can hit Obito while he is fully intangible/in boxland

Kisame always being merged with Samehada
Kisame always using WD before Itachi can use any sort of Genjutsu effectively
As @WorldsStrongest said, Daikoudan beating IA

Hashirama breaking Tsukuyomi because he's Hashirama


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## Skywalker (Apr 2, 2018)

The Sound Five, especially Kimimaro, being Kage level was a fun one from awhile back.


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 2, 2018)

Skywalker said:


> The Sound Five, especially Kimimaro, being Kage level was a fun one from awhile back.



A while back?
I see people call Kimimaro Low Kage all the time


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## Skywalker (Apr 2, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> A while back?
> I see people call Kimimaro Low Kage all the time


Meh, I'm not around very much now to know. I just remember those threads flooding this place for awhile at the time.


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## Marvel (Apr 2, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> A while back?
> I see people call Kimimaro Low Kage all the time


Because it can be argued he is,

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 2, 2018)

Levi Ackerman said:


> Because it can be argued he is,



I was just saying people said it... Not siding with anyone


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 2, 2018)

@Levi Ackerman what part did you disagree with?


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## Marvel (Apr 2, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @Levi Ackerman what part did you disagree with?


The part where you were sarcastic and taunted the idea of Hashirama almost being killed by a Kunai and imitated people saying that was an author mistake.

Because in reality it was stated a weapon is as strong as the ninja themself by Zetsu so trying to make it seem like Hashirama isn’t that strong by bringing up that moment is what I disagree on.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 2, 2018)

Levi Ackerman said:


> The part where you were sarcastic and taunted the idea of Hashirama almost being killed by a Kunai and imitated people saying that was an author mistake.
> 
> Because in reality it was stated a weapon is as strong as the ninja themself by Zetsu so trying to make it seem like Hashirama isn’t that strong by bringing up that moment is what I disagree on.


Not invincable and invulnerable =/= not that strong. 
There is more than just the two extremes. 

People saying he can't be killed by anything when clearly almost anyone in this manga can die from being stabbed (as even Madara did, and kinda EMS Sasuke as well).

Him being able to be killed like everyone else is simply a manga fact.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Blu-ray (Apr 2, 2018)

Ablaze said:


> Honestly my memory of the manga is fading.
> Even more so since i paid very little attention to the war arc and cba to go back and read the manga. But if i remember correctly the original white zetsu's that was attached to obito by madara was actually somebody that has long been turned into a white zetsu.
> 
> @Blu-ray You seem to know you stuff.
> Any help?


I dunno.

Madara specifically said he to Obito, but the whole _"Zetsu aren't Hashirama clones but normal people turned into plant men all along"_ thing threw me for such a loop that I can't be sure if he was referring to the Zetsu he _thought_ he made from Hashirama cells, or actual Hashirama tissue from the Hasbirama clone he had.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 3, 2018)

Icegaze said:


> He did so when he was in water


When fused with samehada 

No one here is disputing the fact Kisame can use that to eat techniques...

@RahulPK04 was talking base Kisame...


Icegaze said:


> I however have never stated or implied he can on dry Land without samehada


Are you kidding 

The exact instance you referenced 

"Kisame did against AOBA" was without samehada

Dont be dishonest

Reactions: Like 1


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## Icegaze (Apr 3, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> When fused with samehada
> 
> No one here is disputing the fact Kisame can use that to eat techniques...
> 
> ...



i am confused the instance where he drains aoba was WITHOUT samehada
hence he can absorb chakra in water without samehada


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 3, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> >Its a shield
> >Shields arent omnidirectional
> >We outright witness Yata fail to protect susanoo from different angles of attack
> >"What a dumb thing to say"
> ...


Not sure whether you're being intentionally dense...or if you're just legit dumb. It's not omnidirectional, but it still puts Itachi's Susanoo'o defense above Sasuke's. This isn't even up for debate, it's objectively true. It's like if you were to fight somebody in a sword duel, you both have swords, but your opponent has a shield and is skilled with it. You saying that he'd still die from a nuclear weapon doesn't change the fact that his defense is better than yours none the less. 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Hes better in genjutsu the same way sasuke is better in stamina
> 
> Both are part of "overall strength"
> 
> ...


The gap in chakra reserves is far less than the gap in Genjutsu ability. Both Danzo & Obito straight up say that Tsukuyomi is in a completely different league compared to Sauce's Genjutsu. No such claim is made when it comes to their chakra. 

Itachi isn't just better in a stat or two, though. He's stronger overall


WorldsStrongest said:


> Not just that
> 
> Gavce other reasons why hed beat Itachis superior (if even) susanoo as well
> 
> ...


All you did was talk about Kirin and Chidori variants. Itachi has his clone feint game, something that he's already shown can be used to mess up Sauce's flow 

Bullshit. Sasuke was weaker, but gaining the Mangekyo didn't massively boost his chakra. Nothing points to that being the case. A baseless assumption at it's finest


WorldsStrongest said:


> Because he does
> 
> And thats blatantly shown
> 
> ...


He doesn't, though I'm sure you'll cherry pick some shit to fit your rhetoric. Oh look, I was right. 

Far more sick than usual Itachi's Jutsu on the day of the Sasuke fight:
1. Crow clone vs Nardo
2. Sharingan Genjutsu vs Nardo
3. Crow clone vs Sauce
4. Sharingan Genjutsu vs Sauce
5. Sharingan Genjutsu vs Sauce
6. Crow clone vs Sauce
7. Tsukuyomi 
8. Katon
9. Katon clash
10. Amaterasu consumes Katons 
11. Amaterasu spam
12. V3/V4 Susano'o against Kirin
13. V4 Susano'o vs Orochimaru
14. Amaterasu implanted in Sauce

I'll post scans if I need to...shouldn't be a problem though considering I'm sure most people remember the majority of the Itachi Sasuke battle

Such big disparity. Oh wait, MS Sasuke's chakra reserves were easily comparable to a half dead Itachi. This is without even getting into the Sasuke not being able to handle V4 Susano'o while sick Itachi could stuff. 

I suggest you try harder next time

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 3, 2018)

I consider these guys equal threats. 
There is no huge gap in any area of combat here really outside of Yata mirrors amazing front defense. 

I think either could win realistically but Itachi's tools seem to give him a small advantage.


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## Blaze Release (Apr 5, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> I understand. I have all the volumes and still need a refresher sometimes.
> 
> The tree is still made of cultivated Hashirama cells and is a clone of Hashirama.
> Connecting that to the Gedo Mazo amd then himself allowed Madara to live beyond his years and thought originally that that Zetsu crops were growing spontainiously from that.
> ...



If you could post the relevant manga pages.
That would help


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