# Demonbane vs Xenogears



## skiboydoggy (Dec 1, 2009)

Battle for Mecha God Supremacy!
​
*Some info on Demonbane (aka: Lol TTGL)*
that 

*Welcome to the Diablo Corps*
that


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## Keollyn (Dec 1, 2009)

It was bound to happen. When some mecha tries to creep their way past the almighty Xenogears, they must show if they got what it takes. 

So Demonbane... show us what you got!


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 1, 2009)

Being able to affect the multiverse, summon an infinite number of weaker Demonbane who are universal+, time manipulation across the multiverse, regen and beat Nyarlathotep the Cthulhu creeper of Chaos a billion times.


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## Keollyn (Dec 1, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Being able to affect the multiverse



Depending on your definition, Zohar can do this. Zohar < Xenogears



> It got summon an infinite number of weaker Demonbane who are universal+



Infinite number? Where are they all going to fix 



> time manipulation across the multiverse



Nice



> regen



Okay



> and beat Nyarlathotep the Cthulhu creeper of Chaos a billion times.



And it is?


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 1, 2009)

this thing

This thread should have the info you need.


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## Raigen (Dec 1, 2009)

Fei beat Wave Krellian who was as powerful as the Wave Existence which creates universes by accident through excess waves. So, Fei/Xenogears took out a Multiverse-level entity. If Xenosaga was any indication he could ascend all life-forms in the universe to a higher plane of existence and affect time/space/etc. Quite redundant really when you can create/destroy the universe easily.

In game one of Fei's chi attacks was entity Big Bang and one of Id's moves looked like a Black Hole. Minor ability you could say is Grahf's ability to transmigrate his spirit and take over other peoples bodies, and that was just a result of making contact with the Wave Existence, aka Zohar.


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## Keollyn (Dec 1, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> this thing
> 
> This thread should have the info you need.



When I return, I'm going to have a long rundown of those feats and see how X stacks up against it.

One thing I should note is that Fei/Xenogears is easily multiversal. Even without speaking of its source god, it has feats on that level.



Zetta said:


> -500 metres tall, can grow bigger (10000 times to at least 5000 km once, and even bigger until the universe it was in collapsed once)



This isn't porn. Size doesn't matter 


> -Can fire homing lasers that reach Earth from Mars in a moment and home in on and destroy millions of targets.



Nice. Speed feats were always something quite lacking in Xenogears. Still, Fei/Xenogears are FTL


> -Armour can withstand hits from 5000 km Liber Regis while only 500 metres tall (5000 km Liber Regis/Demonbane destroy small planets by bumping into them)



Larva Deus and unmanned Zohar can do this. 


> -Atlantis Strike: More than enough to destroy planets (at 500 m size, can penetrate the Liber Regis' armour)



Above



> -Barzai's scimitar, can cut through the Liber Regis
> -Superpowered version of the rifle that vapourized London, blew Liber Regis in half
> -Lemuria Impact, vapourized most of Liber Regis' body (leaving behind only the limbs)



I think I'm missing context here, but it's moot


> -De Maligny's clock, time control (turning time back for an entire planet, turning back time in the future so that even if an attack blows away the cockpit it's regenerated instantly)



Time manip is always a good tool to have, but I'm sure Fei/Xeno have no concerns of it given Pre-ascension Deus can mess with it and even Deus' Aeon can.



> -Can control quantum



Nice


> -Regular weapons can cause a universe to collapse



Impressive


> -Can survive the collapse of a universe utterly unharmed (not just jump to a new one, survive the collapse itself)



Impressive


> -Can of course hop through universes



Okay


> -Can operate in universes with different laws of physics, or where time flows differently



Not really anything special



> Time control. Freezing, turning back, and fast-forwarding. Works on self or others, and can be controlled from any point in time.



Fei has no shown personal control of time, but lesser beings have and also his source god has complete dominion of time. Part of his power manipulates time in the process



> As in if you somehow manage to blow it up it just revives itself from five minutes ago.



Glutton


> Also, infinite everything (size, speed, firepower, energy, whatever) x2



multiplying infinity 



> Weapons are
> 
> -Cthuga (revolver) x3, which also shoot giant fireballs (with regular Demonbane, one of these vapourizes a small island)
> 
> ...



Insignificant



> -Lemuria Impact
> Universe collapses from the energy released.



Poor energy control is poor 



> It's bigger than a universe. It grows so big the universe it's in pops due to its sheer size then it grows so big it accidentally destroys other universes by brushing against them.



Overcompensating? 



> It fights an opponent equally as powerful.
> 
> They fight equally matched non-stop for aeons and then Nyarlathotep gets bored, turns back time, and kills the pilot when he was six years old or something.
> 
> ...



So two multiversals fighting for like... long time... and Ny cheaps his way into a win. Okay


> In his last fight, Demonbane didn't even attack. His mere presence warped reality so hard that an infinite number of Gunshinkyoushuu Demonbane (the second form) appeared and beat the enemy for Elder Gold Demonbane.



Was it really infinite Demonbane or is that an exaggeration (like all its feats  )

Probably the most problematic. Even a few dozen of those demonbane (universe size still, right?) would be an annoyance.


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## Keollyn (Dec 1, 2009)

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## Zetta (Dec 1, 2009)

It's not really exageration.

It's just super robot logic applied to Ctulchian (is that even a word) proportions.

In the game, what happened was Demonbane (piloted by Kurou and Al Azif (both Elder Gods)) called all the other Elder Gods in their Demonbane's to appear.

They then called every possible form of Demonbane to appear from the past, present, future, dimension, existance and non-existance. All at once.

They basically called Elder God Demonbane's from places, times and dimensions that don't even exist.

Yeah, I'm not sure how they did that but considering these are an infinite army of super robots powered by an infinite number of Gods, I don't think logic is the issue here.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 1, 2009)

Zetta said:


> It's just super robot logic applied to Ctulchian (is that even a word) proportions.



I think the word Lovecraftian would be better than Cthulian


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## Zetta (Dec 2, 2009)




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## Keollyn (Dec 2, 2009)

So they all aren't universe-sized then?


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## Onomatopoeia (Dec 2, 2009)

Is that his actual name or is he just some schmuck with Deus Ex Machina on his side?


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## Id (Dec 2, 2009)

Sometimes Keollyn scares me. Makes me want to give up my username and give it to Keo.


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## Id (Dec 2, 2009)




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## Raigen (Dec 2, 2009)




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## Id (Dec 2, 2009)

Where did you get that from?


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## Raigen (Dec 2, 2009)

deviantArt. Same place I found this one.


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## Id (Dec 2, 2009)

By Zeus, I think its time I sport a Xenogears set.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 2, 2009)

I beat you to it many hours ago.


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## Raigen (Dec 2, 2009)

I used to grab a lot of Perfect Works images years ago. You can't even find them online anymore. Some of the original sketches and artwork were absolutely phenomenal. And Id was brutal. They even had an Omnigear form for Emeralda's Crescent gear. It's a shame they never really completed Xenogears nor did a remake. They should. After all, Xenogears is-


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## Keollyn (Dec 2, 2009)

I thought these two were pretty kick ass


*Spoiler*: __ 












But we're getting off topic here. Though XG is badass enough to develop its own separate topic

@Raigen: I have the entire Perfect Work book on my harddrive.


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## Raigen (Dec 2, 2009)

I have a lot of PW stuff on my old computer that I snagged from an old site many a year ago. It's still great. And a lot of fanart from japanese sites too (They had some amazing shit). Id is just awesome.


Let the purge begin


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## Spectre (Dec 3, 2009)

Ok. So? Where are feats for Xenogear side?*(beside Raigen's)


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 3, 2009)

See Keollyn's posts on the previous page.


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## skiboydoggy (Dec 3, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Is that his actual name or is he just some schmuck with Deus Ex Machina on his side?


Actual name.


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## Zetta (Dec 3, 2009)

Keollyn said:


> So they all aren't universe-sized then?



Their attacks become universe-sized.

Now, every Elder God appears with their own Elder God Demonbane when one of them calls them. Or rather, when Kurou calls them using the Shining Trapezehedron.

It's noted that these are all based on Lovecraft's original works (and not other writers who wrote after him). Lovecraft counts the Outer Gods and the Great Old Ones as Elder Gods too.

This means that when Kurou summons them, he summons a total of 92 Elder God Demonbane's. Some stronger and some weaker than himself.


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## Spectre (Dec 3, 2009)

Didn't ID lose against Galactus here?
I am pretty sure Demonbane>>>>>>>>>Galactus.


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## lambda (Dec 3, 2009)

Id isn't as powerful as Fei.


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## Spectre (Dec 3, 2009)

So? Can he destroy universes just by BRUSHING against them?


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## lambda (Dec 3, 2009)

Xenogears can endure the destruction of a dimension filled with WE energy, and the ripples created by this energy spilling from the Wave Existence create universes.


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## Spectre (Dec 3, 2009)

That was normal Demonbane. Elder God Demonbane is far stronger.
Nyarlototep can destroy universes just by looking at them.(Well, that's far as I heard as creator directly based the game on Cthulu myth.)


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## lambda (Dec 3, 2009)

And Xenogears is powered by a being that create universes by existing.


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## Raigen (Dec 3, 2009)

Basically, the Wave Existence moves, and entire universes are created as a side-effect. It's not even intentional. They could create multiverses if they wanted to, but have no need. It just happens because they exist.


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## Zetta (Dec 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Basically, the Wave Existence moves, and entire universes are created as a side-effect. It's not even intentional. They could create multiverses if they wanted to, but have no need. It just happens because they exist.



Demonbane's existance warps reality too.


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## Raigen (Dec 3, 2009)

Kinda goes with the territory of creating universes. So I don't see how that makes any difference here.


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## Zetta (Dec 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Kinda goes with the territory of creating universes. So I don't see how that makes any difference here.



The point is that everything the Wave Existance can do, Demonbane can match.

The difference is DemonBane can summon 92 other Demonbane's who are possibly more powerful than him.


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## lambda (Dec 3, 2009)

Everything the Wave Existence can do? The WE is an nigh- omnipotent being who doesn't bother doing anything and stll create universes by inadvertence. It produces infinite energy at any time. 

Frankly at this point, it doesn't matter how many Demonbane there is, because the number gets meaningless at this level.


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## Zetta (Dec 3, 2009)

Why do I get the feeling that this won't ever be resolved.


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## lambda (Dec 3, 2009)

Because it can't, really.


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## Keollyn (Dec 3, 2009)

Spectre said:


> Ok. So? Where are feats for Xenogear side?*(beside Raigen's)



*tlwr*;

One of his first feats in Xenogears was beating and destroying Zohar-merged Deus. Now to fully understand how powerful Deus is, know that the Zohar is capable of producing infinite energy by manipulating _infinite_ parallel universes. It can even steal some from the Wave Dimension (which is energy far richer than any energy in the fourth dimension... even with what Zohar can produce)

When Deus merges with Zohar, it is noted in the official source book that it has _100%_ throughput of Zohar. It doesn't hurt that it's defense would be nigh-impregnable given that Zohar tanked the big bang. 

Afterward, Zohar and a demolished Deus goes into the center of a Singularity (lol even without Zohar, Deus' durability can easily withstand the center of a black hole) and they meet Karellen who has functionally became a _Wave Being_. 

Fastforward, Karellen creates a being to fight Fei that's created from some of the Wave Energy in that dimension. Now I'm sure you recall that I said the Wave Energy is richer than even what Zohar could ever produce... mainly because only a small amount can create a universe, as Lamba pointed out. 

Fei decimates this being too. With no effort. 

Then the dimension starts to collapse and Fei and Elly are still in it. Next time you see, the dimension explodes with them still in it. 

*tldr*;

Fei destroys a big bang tanker and someone powered by a infinite parallel universe manipulator

Fei and weak Deus walks into a singularity like it was nothing

Fei beats a being that would make Deus/Zohar crap its pants in power

Fei tanks the explosion of the upper dimension that was filled with 'creates a universe in a spill' energy

All of this with ease. One could expect this to be easy for someone empowered by a guy who makes universes by accident--with that accident just being a fraction of its body



Zetta said:


> Their attacks become universe-sized.
> 
> Now, every Elder God appears with their own Elder God Demonbane when one of them calls them. Or rather, when Kurou calls them using the Shining Trapezehedron.
> 
> ...



Regardless, that's a lot of opponents that Fei has to worry about.



Spectre said:


> Didn't ID lose against Galactus here?
> I am pretty sure Demonbane>>>>>>>>>Galactus.



Only due to lack of info on my part (since I was the only one who knew anything about XG and even then I wasn't fully aware of what transgressed in the end)


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## Id (May 12, 2010)

Battle for Mecha God Supremacy!
​
*Some info on Demonbane (aka: Lol TTGL)*
Link removed

*Welcome to the Diablo Corps*
Link removed


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 12, 2010)

Xenogears is a weapon from God himself given to Fei ( the Slayer of God ). Fei himself is a haxx. Xenogears is haxx from God.


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## lambda (May 12, 2010)

Been done.


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## Id (May 12, 2010)

lambda said:


> Been done.



*Tenbu Horin Merges.


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## Nihilistic (May 12, 2010)

This battle is over puny mortal minds, even though I personally voted Demonbane. Didn't the damn thing pwn the un-pwn-able Azathoth? Awesome.

Meh. Whoever rapes Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Twilight the hardest/in the most amusing way, wins.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 12, 2010)

Azathoth? No Nyarlothotep is trying to free Azathoth through Demonbane and Liber Legis. But who knows.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 12, 2010)

This is why Xenogears is my most favorite RPG of all time. Even after playing it, you discover more info that can blow your mind.

And yes, size doesn't matter. Xenogears can beat something like STTGL since STTGL is strong enough to create energy equal to that of the big bang and Xenogears is stronger than the big bang.


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## God (May 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Xenogears is a weapon from God himself given to Fei ( the Slayer of God ). Fei himself is a haxx. Xenogears is haxx from God.



There is no God in Xenogears AFAIK. And even if there is, the Xenogear comes from the Wave Existence, not God, so you're either lying, wanking, or just dont know what you're talking about.


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## Keollyn (May 12, 2010)

Cubey said:


> There is no God in Xenogears AFAIK. And even if there is, the Xenogear comes from the Wave Existence, not God, so you're either lying, wanking, or just dont know what you're talking about.



Or not entirely wrong


*Spoiler*: __ 



VOICE
I... am... Har...

FEI
What is this light...?

HAR
I... I reside in Zohar. I am the beginning and the end. The first and the last.

[Camera rotate around Fei to side view slowly as he looks up at the object of Har. Keep rotating behind Har. Camera rotate around both Fei and Har slowly throughout scene.]

FEI
... God?

HAR
*God... Some would refer to me as that. From a certain point of view, it is right to view me as such. But at the same time, I am not. I... am also a part of you.*

FEI
A part of me?

HAR
I am defined by how people observe me. You are actually talking to a virtual version of me that you yourself create... I am 'your perception' of me.

[Fei looks down and shakes his head. Then he looks up again.]

FEI
I don't understand what you are talking about. Who, or what, are you?

HAR
In one word...... EXISTENCE.

FEI
Existence?

HAR
In actuality, I do not have a physical form. I am an 'Existence' of a higher dimension. A place you cannot perceive... But in terms you understand, it is a world where everything acts as kinds of waves...
It is the source of this four-dimensional universe... The place where time and space is controlled... The fluctuating void... The 'Wave Existence'.


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## God (May 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Or not entirely wrong
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I meant as in an omnipotent God. Simply calling yourself God doesnt mean shit, Aizen's done that too. At most, he's nigh-omnipotent, which Demonbane is around that level too.


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## Keollyn (May 12, 2010)

I know. But it isn't like basch71 was wrong or lying when he said 'God', since it was referred in the game itself.


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## MichaelUN89 (May 12, 2010)

I heard that if demonbane "dies" or is defeated the universe and time is reseted.

Making demonbane impossible to kill.  Or something like that.

Not sure about that though.


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## Kurou (May 12, 2010)

ok, its really time for me to start playing these fucking games >___>


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## Abigail (May 12, 2010)

Zetta pretty much said it best.



Zetta said:


> Why do I get the feeling that this won't ever be resolved.


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## God (May 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> I know. But it isn't like basch71 was wrong or lying when he said 'God', since it was referred in the game itself.



By God I thought he meant omnipotent. So yes, he wasnt wrong but it really doesnt mean much as God is a commonly used trope.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> I know. But it isn't like basch71 was wrong or lying when he said 'God', since it was referred in the game itself.



I like Xenogears enough as I said. I wouldn't be bullshitting if I didn't know what I was talking about. What we call God in the Xenogears universe exist an entity known as the Wave Existence whose basically the same shit, different name.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (May 12, 2010)

MichaelUN89 said:


> I heard that if demonbane "dies" or is defeated the universe and time is reseted.
> 
> Making demonbane impossible to kill.  Or something like that.
> 
> Not sure about that though.


no the version of him of 5 minutes ago comes and fight you


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## God (May 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> I like Xenogears enough as I said. I wouldn't be bullshitting if I didn't know what I was talking about. What we call God in the Xenogears universe exist an entity known as the Wave Existence whose basically the same shit, different name.



I agree, I said this in my post that was addressed to you. My problem with it is that merely saying "God" as if it automatically means some uber powerful dude/being is wrong, when we have characters like Aizen claiming to be God.

You would have done better to just say WoE.


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## Keollyn (May 12, 2010)

There not similar in anyway Cubey. He clearly said 'from a certain perspective'. And from a certain perspective, he is God (he did create the world of man, and that's a god figure in every sense to those people).

But what made it nothing like Aizen's claim is that he also said he wasn't. That's true understanding of what you are. Aizen has no idea what the hell he is.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> There not similar in anyway Cubey. He clearly said 'from a certain perspective'. And from a certain perspective, he is God (he did create the world of man, and that's a god figure in every sense to those people).
> 
> But what made it nothing like Aizen's claim is that he also said he wasn't. That's true understanding of what you are. Aizen has no idea what the hell he is.



Aizen's a God in title. WoE is a God in official terms, to humans that is.


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## God (May 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> There not similar in anyway Cubey. He clearly said 'from a certain perspective'. And from a certain perspective, he is God (he did create the world of man, and that's a god figure in every sense to those people).
> 
> But what made it nothing like Aizen's claim is that he also said he wasn't. That's true understanding of what you are. Aizen has no idea what the hell he is.



This is true.. I've already agreed, but again, simply throwing around the word God is not enough to qualify as a high-end feat. It's the fact that the WoE's actually done some multiversal stuff that puts it up there, nothing about being called God, no matter what perspective.



basch71 said:


> Aizen's a God in title. WoE is a God in official terms, to humans that is.



A God to human, officially, is that there is no official quantification to God. The ancient Greeks worshipped human-like dieties until Plato pointed out that they were nothing at all like God's except for a few enhanced features and more wisdom.

The point is, God is an unquantifiable term. You might as well use X because that's essentially what it is - a variable. Now, what makes the WoE's/Fei's feats high-end is because of what the WoE's actually done, not because of what it's called.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 12, 2010)

Cubey said:


> This is true.. I've already agreed, but again, simply throwing around the word God is not enough to qualify as a high-end feat. It's the fact that the WoE's actually done some multiversal stuff that puts it up there, nothing about being called God, no matter what perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know, WoE is aware it's called God by Man but never claims to be one. WoE is not even a physical being. It's a high-end meta-entity from a higher dimension of existence whose capable of omnipotency and omniscence,


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## God (May 12, 2010)

While I agree with much of what you said, it is not omnipotent.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 12, 2010)

If only they elaborated more on this guy. At best we got Xenosaga's U-DO whose pretty much the same as WoE and the Gnosis exist in a higher dimension, pretty much super haxx Lovecraftian Elder Gods.

quite


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## God (May 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> If only they elaborated more on this guy. At best we got Xenosaga's U-DO whose pretty much the same as WoE and the Gnosis exist in a higher dimension, pretty much super haxx Lovecraftian Elder Gods.
> 
> Link removed



That's the wrong wiki lol.

Link removed

I guess if they had continued, they might've made him omnipotent, but as he is now, he's only nigh-omnipotent.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 13, 2010)

Isn't that the same link?


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## Riverlia (May 13, 2010)

It couldn't even rejoin all it part and escape the 4D universe it incarnated into, even when it hasn't transfer its power to Fei, it was trapped in a 'flesh body' within Zohar
It's also haven't demonstrate any sign of being omniscient.

It's nigh omnipotent and nigh omniscient, but not there yet

UDO was similar, it has displayed a few limit, so it's not omnipotent


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## God (May 13, 2010)

No that wiki's defunct.


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## Endless Mike (May 13, 2010)

Raigen said:


> In game one of Fei's chi attacks was entity Big Bang and one of Id's moves looked like a Black Hole.



Another example of incredibly poor reasoning on the side of Raigen.

It "looked like" a black hole, huh? I guess that means it had to be one, then. After all, anything that remotely resembles anything else must be the same, right?


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## Tranquil Fury (May 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> If only they elaborated more on this guy. At best we got Xenosaga's U-DO whose pretty much the same as WoE and the Gnosis exist in a higher dimension, pretty much super haxx Lovecraftian Elder Gods.
> 
> here



You mean like a Dimension where human logic and laws of our universe don't apply? Why yes a weaker version of Demonbane did that just fine in the anime in episode 11 pr 12 when existing in Yog's dimension.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 13, 2010)

The demonbane anime is weaker than the games and novels but it gives you some idea atleast.


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