# Fanfic cliches that makes you sick!



## Furious George (Jul 5, 2007)

Have you ever noticed that a specific idea or concept keeps finding itself in every Naruto fanfiction (in other words, a cliche)? Are you getting fucking tired of that idea or concept? Have you seen the stupid idea or concept in work so many times that you now wish to smack any author who dares to  put it into his/her fic? Well, look no further. This is the place for you. Post your rants and heartaches here! Letting off steam might do you a world of good. 

Well, naturally I will start off with my own list of cliche's I wish to see wiped off from the face of ther earth. Lemme know if you agree with me. Let the ranting begin!

*1. Making your fic 'Overly-Japanese' with silly phrases:*

Ugh. Okay, now this has GOT to stop. First, I'll explain what I mean by the term 'overly-Japanese'. This is basically when a fanfic writer feels that, by throwing in a bunch of Japanese phrases out of nowhere (i.e, kawaii, baka, etc), he/she is somehow making the story more 'authentic'. Their intentons are to bring the reader deeper into the Narutoverse by adding in Japanese words every now and then. Their intentions are good... but the execution is  usually lacking. Authors, please listen to me carefully... using the word 'baka' instead of idiot doesn't make you smart and it doesn't make your fic any better. It doesn't make it feel anymore genuine or 'manga-like'. It doesn't do anything but generally cut the flow of the story by interjecting words from a completely different language. It makes no sense to me at all. If anything, it makes the reading experience less realistic because you are making the characters speak two different languages at the same time. I ask you... *why* would Temari (example taken from MANY ShikaTem fics I have read) be speaking perfect english for your entire fic and then just suddenly decide to call Shikamaru an idiot in japanese (baka)? It would have been just as effective, AND made a lot more sense, if she called him an idiot in enlgish! Can't you see that?!?! Now, don't get me wrong... I do understand that there are times when using Japanese phrases is necessary in a Naruto fic because that particular phrase is a part of a cerain character's personality, like when Hinata ends everyone's name with the honorific 'kun'. Those are exceptions... but stupid terms like 'kawaii' are unecessary and are generally not a part of any of the character's vocabularies in the first place. Bottom line... you speak english. You are writting an entire fic in english. Everyone who is going to read it understands english. There is no reason Temari can't just say idiot instead of baka. There is no reason Ino can't just scream 'that is so cute!" instead of 'that is so kawaii!'. There is no reason a random nin can't cry out "Oh, God!" instead of "Oh, Kami!". If you had to refer to an english-to-japanese dictionary to write your fic, then chances are you have gone too far with this cliche. Please, authors... your fic will be fine if you just write it in full-english.... trust me. 

That took more time to write then I though... I will post more cliches that piss me off later.


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## Dogma (Jul 5, 2007)

Ah, Cyckness. 

Haven't seen you since the FF Society migrated to the Chatterbox.

Anyways, there's already a post about this somewhere else, but seeing as I posted in that one anyways, I'll just retrieve my post.



> *~Lame OC's*
> 
> I'm alittle more forgiving on the Mary-Stu's and Gary-Stu's. But I swear if another long lost relative of someone in the Narutoverse pops up I'm going to lose it.
> 
> ...


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## Vance (Jul 5, 2007)

Kankuro x Temari is normal.


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## Dragonessa (Jul 6, 2007)

The things that piss me off about fanfics:

*Overpowered OCs:*
The cardinal sin of OC creation is overpowering and it drives me nuts. I have seen several fanfics where the OCs (if there are any) are grossly overpowered and seem almost demi-godly. Also characters should be created to be able to be beaten by at least _one_ person and not be completely "perfect" aka: Mary-Sue/Mary-Stue. 

*Bad Grammar:*
Another pet peeve of mine when it comes to fanfics. I take grammar very seriously when I write and I have seen oh so many great fics with the worst grammar imaginable. Punctuation is the main thing that is often butchered that I see. 

*Unrealistic Pairings/Situations*
Another fanfic sin is the infamous unrealistic pairing/pairing situation. Many pairings in the Narutoverse exist but there are only a select few that are actually realistic (ShikaxTem, NaruxSaku, NaruxHina, SakuxSasu...you get the picture). If the pairings aren't unrealistic then they are usually put in situations that don't suit them or make no sense at all. That makes me crazy! 

Pairings are often romantical and that is okay with me but sometimes they're a little _over_ romantical. SasuxSaku is the worst when it comes to this as often either Sasuke or Sakura has a "change of heart" or they realize they are meant for each other...that sort of thing. 

well that's all for me!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## YellowFlash23 (Jul 6, 2007)

Dragonessa said:


> The things that piss me off about fanfics:
> 
> *Overpowered OCs:*
> The cardinal sin of OC creation is overpowering and it drives me nuts. I have seen several fanfics where the OCs (if there are any) are grossly overpowered and seem almost demi-godly. Also characters should be created to be able to be beaten by at least _one_ person and not be completely "perfect" aka: Mary-Sue/Mary-Stue.
> ...



Those are pretty much mine as well. The unrealistic pairings really make me crazy, because they put them in these idiotic situation. I also hate fics where the characters act totally unlike themselves. I also hate Akatsuki pairings, with any girl character. I saw a TobixSakura one and I had to take a break from fanfiction.net for a while.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shinobikitty (Jul 6, 2007)

I don't like when people don't explain their pairings.... like out of nowhere Gaara cries " I know we just had a small luch together but despite character... I love you.".

That will make me stop reading a fic altogether sometimes.


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## Lenalee (Jul 6, 2007)

(In no real order except the order they came to mind)

1. Having tons of real-world elements to them. Like, for example, a mall. There is no mall in Konoha. There are stores, yes, but no malls.
2. When whole sentences are constructed of Japanese. A few words here and there doesn't kill the fic, but if, for no reason, the characters actually speak a whole sentence in Japanese randomly...What the heck?
3. If the fic writer is so lazy that they actually use things like "plz" and "u" in their fic. That is the most annoying thing.
4. Over-fluff. Yes, yes, we all like some fluff when it comes to our favorite pairings. Since when does Sasuke act so wimpy and lovestruck, though? And why is Shikamaru suddenly randomly in love with Ino?!
5. Out-of-character overdose. Realizing that you went OOC a few times is one thing, but some people will make the whole fic chock-full of it. Argh.
6. A lot of fic writers use the same overall plot as others, and that's just lame. If you're going to spend time writing, at least make it your own.

I sound so whiny...>_>


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## Furious George (Jul 7, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> Ah, Cyckness.
> 
> Haven't seen you since the FF Society migrated to the Chatterbox.
> 
> Anyways, there's already a post about this somewhere else, but seeing as I posted in that one anyways, I'll just retrieve my post.



Heh heh, yeah... been away for a while. Been busy with real world stuff and some 'summer antics'.  

Yeah, I fouind the thread your talking about after I posted this... meh. 

Anyway, here is my next most hated cliche. 

*2. Terribly stupid and OOC interaction between Naruto and Kyuubi:*

The saddest thing about this cliche is that the Kyuubi/Naruto interaction, under the hands of a skilled writer, could make for an excellent fanfiction... but unfortunately, most who use the Kyuubi in their fics run his character and his good name into the ground. Okay, lets get one thing clear. Kyuubi is an evil demon bent solely on destruction. He is not Naruto's friend. He is not Naruto's id. He is not Naruto's fairy godmother who gives him advice on his life from time to time. He is a clood-blooded animal, and the only time he even bothers talking to Naruto is when he is trying to convince him to use his chakra... so he can kill things. Why, in the blue hell, do fanfic writers have Naruto and Kyuubi speaking to each other like there old college roomates? Beyond him being his vessel, THE KYUUBI IS NOT INTERESTED IN NARUTO AT ALL! If all I had to go by was the disasters that are known as fanfiction; Kyuubi is not only a talkative comedian who is always telling Naruto dirty jokes, but he is also concerned with his love life and wants him to 'mate' with Hinata and/or Sakura.  Please, you terrible excuses for fanfic writers, do not dishonor the awesome character that is Kyuubi by making him some kind of 'buddy' to Naruto. And I don't care if it IS supposed to be a comedy. Its not funny. It wasn't funny the first time it was done, and it sure as hell isn't funny after being done over 1000 times. The blonde ninja has many friends who could fill the role as a matchmaker (i.e. Shikamaru). Why would you pick an evil bijuu to do it?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Almaseti (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm rather sick of high school AUs myself.  I have nothing against taking Naruto characters and sticking them somewhere else to create a new story that would be difficult to tell in the canon universe but high school is not the place.  We've seen it already.  ALL of it.  Make them pirates, make them doctors, put them in giant robots, just do something new with the AUs!

*had a sudden mental image of Sasuke as the janitor on Scrubs*


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## Yakushi Kabuto (Jul 7, 2007)

Hm, the item when probably bugs me the most is when two characters are thrown together and are shown as instantly falling in love for no reason when previously within the series they have never been shown to even interact with each other. I'm fine if there's some believable construction of a relationship, but not a sudden change to easily won over affections.



Cyckness said:


> If all I had to go by was the disasters that are known as fanfiction; Kyuubi is not only a talkative comedian who is always telling Naruto dirty jokes, but he is also concerned with his love life and wants him to 'mate' with Hinata and/or Sakura.



Ah, my goodness, I remember reading fics like that, they were horrifically amusing.


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## Vanillin (Jul 7, 2007)

I think sometimes the Japanese phrases work, but VERY rarely.  Nice post though.

I hate, HATE, the Highschool fics, Vampire fics, and when the word 'Cherry Blossom' is used in the title.


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## Kyon (Jul 7, 2007)

Vanilla said:


> I hate, HATE, the Highschool fics, Vampire fics, and when the word 'Cherry Blossom' is used in the title.



I'm thinking of making a fic with that in the title, then never mentioning Sakura.

Ever.


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## Vanillin (Jul 8, 2007)

Kyon said:


> I'm thinking of making a fic with that in the title, then never mentioning Sakura.
> 
> Ever.



That would be the best story ever.  Do it.


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## Dogma (Jul 8, 2007)

I'm starting to get annoyed with seeing Naruto as the Hokage, and everyone else being his loving subordinate. After taking a quick look at the fics like that it's getting a bit stale.

Someone should make a fic with someone like Chouji or Tenten as the Hokage. No one would see it coming.


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## Kyon (Jul 8, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> I'm starting to get annoyed with seeing Naruto as the Hokage, and everyone else being his loving subordinate. After taking a quick look at the fics like that it's getting a bit stale.
> 
> Someone should make a fic with someone like Chouji or Tenten as the Hokage. No one would see it coming.



I was thinking of doing it for my contest entry, but at the last second decided against it.

The entry needed to be somewhat serious.


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## Lover Boy (Jul 8, 2007)

Konohamaru as hokage would be a nice change...


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## Nunally (Jul 8, 2007)

I rated your thread 5 stars. 8D

1. When in ItaSaku fics, Itachi is the slut that throws himself at Sakura. xD I mean, even if_ I_ think Sakura is the prettiest in Naruto, she may not be, and Itachi can probably get a lot of girls.

2. Sakura is mary-sued. She will not have guys falling at her feet. She should, but she doesn't. It's a sad reality. 

3. ItaSaku fics. You have no idea how repeated the plot lines are.

4. Girls always being on bottom. 

5. Sakura saying something like, "MY Naruto-kun-OMG, I CALLED HIM _MY_ NARUTO-KUN LYK WTF IS WRONG W/ ME????????????"


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## Furious George (Jul 8, 2007)

Hananoshi said:


> I rated your thread 5 stars. 8D



Thanks! 



> 4. Girls always being on bottom.



Umm.... what does this mean?


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## Nunally (Jul 9, 2007)

^ Basically, during sex, the girls are never on top of the boy. The boy is always on top, even if the girl is feisty.


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## Dogma (Jul 9, 2007)

Lemon cliche's too? 

Glad to see just about everything fic wise can get stale and annoying, lol.


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## Chiyo (Jul 9, 2007)

Uh *tries to think*...

Okay, in fanfics, I think a lot of the time people fall in love too quickly. Particularly with the crack pairings. I like crack pairings, so log as they would make a good couple, but there has to be  good development and construction of the relationship. It's highly unlikely that Gaara wakes up one morning and decides to declare his love for somebody he's been seeing for a day... That was a not-so-good example, but you get what I mean, right?

I'm also pretty bored of the same old pairings. I mean, yeah those couplings are the most likely, but they are only interesting if you have an original storyline to it...

I may post again if I can think of anything else in a bit.


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## Furious George (Jul 9, 2007)

Hananoshi said:


> ^ Basically, during sex, the girls are never on top of the boy. The boy is always on top, even if the girl is feisty.



Really??? I have only read a few lemons so far (its not something that I am particularly into), but I have seen the girl 'riding' the guy on numerous occasions... esp. in ShikaTem fics. *shrugs*


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## Dogma (Jul 9, 2007)

I wonder what would happen if all the NaruHina and SasuSaku fanfics just disappeared for awhile. That'd definately make those garden variety pairings a bit more interesting.

~Cyck

It's alot different, when it's not Shikamaru x Temari, lol. You've got to think from the general kind of fanfiction.

Which would be a NaruHina/SasuSaku fic. In which they either fall in love, or save eachother from something, upon then they decide to fall in love. Or just have sex, making it a lemon. 

Most times Naruto or Sasuke is on top, and the girls on the bottom. Standard missionary, lots of love, and detail etc. (Don't really read lemon either, but it's not hard to guess.)

~Now that I think about it, alot of the things mentioned in this thread really make the story boring too. Especially the OC stuff.


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## reiyel (Jul 9, 2007)

What really gets me twitchy is the stories where Character A is going out with Character B, all is well blahblahblah -- then they break up for some reason. (mostly because one of them has turned into a bitch of unholy proportions. Mmm bashing) And then Character A shacks up with Character C, and LO AND BEHOLD, suddenly you wonder why A went out with B in the first place because apparently he never quite loved her, he knew it, it was kind of blah, she sucked in bed and she never washed the dishes, but what he has with C is TRUE LOVE.

Making all other love interests weaker does not make your chosen pairing look stronger. It makes it look like your pairing is so weak it couldn't stand the competition otherwise. 

I know it's romantic to have people going "now I realize I never loved someone as much as I love you", but no, seriously, stop cheapening everything else the character ever loved. "the only one" he loves does not, actually, means "the best". It just means you shot the competition in the kneecap, and as a result it makes your story look so. Very. Young. And. Misinformed. No, really, in the real world it's possible to fall in love with someone, and then FALL OUT OF LOVE, without that other person being an utter bitch, and without going "well it wasn't really love. THIS ONE is love." 

All kinds of love grow and then die, and you can't really know how long they're going to last. The trick to "immortal love" is just to find a way to die first.

... Anyway, that's my main peeve right now. >_>;;;


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## spudrow2005 (Jul 9, 2007)

ive got one too much angst!! im talking about soo much angst that u need 2 prozac before reading. that and killing off kishi's characters ex. shikamaru gets KIA if they not dead in the manga dont kill them 

pairing fics it seems like each pairing seems to be viewed as a certain style
naruhina is that fluffy, cute till ur eyes bleed. with sweet loving lemons in it, and hinata has tears of joy all the time.

sasusaku- is either super angsty or super smutty, take ur pick 

narusaku(yes ive read a few) she seems to fall for him/have sex after an examination (cospiracy i think not  ) and she usually breaks his bones into calcium supplements whenever he screws up so that happens alot.

shikatem- shes gonna break his pelvis, nough said. that and gaara seems to go apeshit when he finds out about them


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## Dogma (Jul 9, 2007)

spudrow2005 said:


> ive got one too much angst!! im talking about soo much angst that u need 2 prozac before reading. that and killing off kishi's characters ex. shikamaru gets KIA if they not dead in the manga dont kill them
> 
> *shikatem*- shes gonna break his pelvis, nough said. that and gaara seems to go apeshit when he finds out about them



I've noticed alot of angst too, though killing a character isn't terrible all the time, it's rarely done in an interesting or non-boring fashion. 

~_Even if she would break his pelvis, don't knock ShikaxTema, lol. _



reiyel said:


> The trick to "immortal love" is just to find a way to die first.



I like that.


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## mortalone (Jul 9, 2007)

Lemons aren't cliche. I'll tell you what is cliche though...
*
Romanticized ideas about what a player is.*

In my story, Naruto of the Sharingan, Naruto is a player... but you'll notice a major diffference between my story and other "NaruHarem" stories. Naruto in my story is capable of thinking about a girl as a friend or as a sexual play-thing, but he is *INCAPABLE* of thinking of a girl as a lover.

This is how almost all true players are. Though I am not one myself, I would know seeing as how my best friend is a player (or more appropriately labeled, a womanizer), and has been since his girlfriend of three years cheated on him about two and a half years back. After her, all his girlfriends were more like friends with benefits and all his relationships were "open."

Unfortunately, most fanfic authors don't seem to realize this. *Being a player isn't such a glamorous thing, as being a player inherantly means having less attachment to the women you are with.*

*"Sharing"*

This is a thought tangent to my previous statement; most NaruHarem stories have the girls "share" Naruto and all get along equally well, all is well, yadda yadda. What is the liklihood of that happening in real life? Now, I'm not going to say polygamy is verbotten (German for "forbidden," though I don't know how to get the unlaut in there), but if there definitely should be, no scratch that, NEEDS to be romantic tensions between any girls planning on "sharing" a guy, and there needs to be thousands of words (and I literally mean, THOUSANDS), developing these relationships and working out their kinks. This shouldn't be "Oh, I want you to share my love with girl X," "But I don't want to," "Please do it for me?" "Well, okay..."

...
...
...

Uh...okay? Does anyone else not see how poorly written that dialogue is? Now don't get me wrong, harems can be fun. Just look at the fic "From Ramen With Love," which is a piece entirely about romance, with a bunch of girls all chasing after a guy named "Nemar" (who is Naruto, Nemar is ramen spelled backwards for those who don't get it), who sends all of them love letters in the hopes of getting a date. However, people shouldn't automatically jump to "harem" as a romantic "pairing" because they feel like it or so they can have lots of dirty lemons (though some may say that about my fic, though there will be character and plot development through the "romantic" side of the story), or to appease fans.

*Orochimaru is the root of all evil.*

In many stories, this ends up being the case. It's Orochimaru's fault Kyuubi attacked. It's Orochimaru's fault for the Uchiha massacre. It's Orochimaru leading the war against Konoha.
*
Hello guys, if Orochimaru is so powerful, then why didn't he take over ITACHI's body?* Why would he go after Sasuke, who is just a weak eight year old at the time of the Uchiha massacre? Why would he want someone who doesn't even have the Sharingan when he can get a genius who activated it at eight and attained the Mangekyou at thirteen?

...
...
...

*Sob stories about Kyuubi's family being killed by Orochimaru.*

Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoy having Kyuubi as a "good guy." It's a lot of fun having Kyuubi on "our side" and I particularly enjoy Naru/femKyu pairings (in case you are wondering what the justification for a female Kyuubi is, look to Japanese mythology, which almost always depicts magic foxes as being female).

...But as much as I enjoy Kyuubi on our side, I don't want to hear some cliche sob story about how Orochimaru killed Kyuubi's "kits" so in a fit of rage Kyuubi attacked Konoha. COME ON! Doesn't anyone ever sit down to plan out REAL PLOT MATERIAL anymore? I can think of over a dozen "explanations" off-hand that all have much more profound plot implications, including having agents from Konoha being responsible for Kyuubi's attack after failing to capture Kyuubi to be used as their weapon! 

Oh snap, did I strike a raw point? This alternative explanation suddenly adds a new layer of complexity: there is no black and white. Konoha did something "bad" in order to fight their war. Perhaps Konoha is still the "good guy" group, but was desparate for a way to win? Or perhaps Konoha has a dark side to it that most people don't see. And all the while, Kyuubi actually has justification for doing what he did.

Explanations like these changes the picture from black and white to SHADES OF GRAY.
*
Itachi a good guy, forced to do what he did to the Uchiha because they were traitors.*

Again, this cliche is badly overused. Perhaps the Uchiha are traitors, but don't make Itachi be on a "secret mission assigned by Sandaime." Dear lord, does anyone else realize how fucked up that is? Sandaime assigning Itachi a mission to turn Sasuke into an avenger, to seek power to kill Itachi with?

If you want to make Itachi a good guy, think of the effect this has on the plot, and plan it out CAREFULLY so that Itachi has credibility as a hero. And I'll give you a hint: torturing Sasuke through the Mangekyou is all the proof you need to realize that Itachi has no credibility as a hero; he is merely another villain, one actually MORE IMPORTANT TO THE PLOT THAN OROCHIMARU.

What happened to Oro? (WARNING: MAJOR SPOILER I ACCIDENTALLY LET SLIP) 
*Spoiler*: __ 



He's dead; Sasuke killed him. In other words, Oro turned out to be nothing more than a measuring stick for Sasuke!



*
"I love you." "You know what? I love you too."*

I've actually seen this. A story will start out with Naruto feeling rejected, and he will run off only to be "unexpectedly" found by Hinata, who catches him at the moment of truth and says she loves him, and suddenly for no apparent reason, Naruto says, "You know what? I love you too."
*
HELLO PEOPLE! If somebody you hardly even know, somebody who can't even hold a proper conversation with you, runs up to you and tells you that they love you, are you going to say you love them back? NO! You're going to look at them like they've grown two heads!*

I don't hate NaruHina, but my god I hate most NaruHina fanfiction. I originally didn't; I originally loved it... but that's because the first NaruHina I ever read also happens to be arguably the greatest all time NaruHina fiction, "Team 8" by S'Tarkan. And right after that I read the other top contender, "Two Halves" by Damewren. After that, it went downhill... fast. NaruHina is to worst offender for this type of story.
*
Naruto's heritage is revealed. Instantaneously he goes from a poor orphan to Konoha's most eligible bachelor.*

I don't even need to say how wrong this is. Why would Naruto live in a shithole for all those years if he has a mansion waiting for him across town? Why would he barely scrape by only to find himself loaded? Why doesn't anyone else realize that this plot theme DEFEATS ONE OF THE OVERARCHING THEMES OF THE WHOLE SERIES.

/me sighs

Naruto gets exiled by the "Council" at the age of 12. Now, it's actually possible to give a credible explanation for this. I attempted to do so in my story Naruto of the Sharingan, and I believe that I was for the most part successful. However, if you want to explain this with any credibility, you have to get around the point that if the "Council" has this power now, why didn't they use it upfront, the moment after the Kyuubi was sealed? Why are they throwing him into exile rather than executing him to see the Kyuubi "defeated"? If you'll notice, in my story he just got up and left Konoha since they were planning to EXECUTE him, and the reason why he is being targeted now is due to a change in the political scene that I elaborated on in several thousand words of detail.

No explanation any less thought out than the one I used is credible. Even mine has a weak point -- why is the Council willing to ostracize the recently named Godaime Hokage to get rid of the Kyuubi-brat? It doesn't entirely make sense. Though my fans are appeased, I still feel like there is a weak point in the argument there.
*
Naruto at a young age running away from a mob.*

This theme wasn't cliche until after I read it for the hundredth time. Now it's just annoying. It's too widely overused. Yes, it gives us a picture of how bad Naruto's life is, but it's become a cliche. No further explanation is needed.


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## Recal (Jul 9, 2007)

I have been a beta reader for a big HP fansite for three years and, believe me, I've seen all kinds of crap.  

The one that's really bugging me lately?  Orbs.  Do not refer to anyone's eyes as orbs.  It makes me giggle and I will not take your story seriously.


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## Shodai (Jul 9, 2007)

Cross Overs.


NO


JUST NO


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## spudrow2005 (Jul 9, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> I've noticed alot of angst too, though killing a character isn't terrible all the time, it's rarely done in an interesting or non-boring fashion.
> 
> ~_Even if she would break his pelvis, don't knock ShikaxTema, lol. _
> 
> ...



im not knocking it *looks down at FC list* i can see the next day:

shikamaru is walking down the street with a giant cast around his waist when naruto runs up to him. shikamaru what the hell happened to u.  shikimaru looks up at the sky and says,  "it.....was.....awsome...."


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## Furious George (Jul 9, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> I wonder what would happen if all the NaruHina and SasuSaku fanfics just disappeared for awhile. That'd definately make those garden variety pairings a bit more interesting.



Oh, for the love of all that is good, you can't imagine how much I want this to become a reality! The Naruto fanfiction scene is so chock full of shitty and cliche SasuSaku and NaruHina fanfics, that when a genuinely well-written and original fic of a less popular pairing comes along no one even notices it. O... how I loathe those two pairings. 




> It's alot different, when it's not Shikamaru x Temari, lol. You've got to think from the general kind of fanfiction.
> 
> Which would be a NaruHina/SasuSaku fic. In which they either fall in love, or save eachother from something, upon then they decide to fall in love. Or just have sex, making it a lemon.
> 
> ...



Ah, I see.... 

Well, to be fair, it would be kinda OOC for NaruHina to engage in anything but missionary sex. I mean, could you imagine Hinata trying to be dominating with Naruto? Heh heh... how silly. (Did I mention I hate this pairing?)



mortalone said:


> Unfortunately, most fanfic authors don't seem to realize this. *Being a player isn't such a glamorous thing, as being a player inherantly means having less attachment to the women you are with.*



Ummm.... I may be wrong about this (its not like I'm speaking from experience.... ahem...), but one of the draws of being a player is that there is no strong attachments to the girls they are with. They don't want to be attached to them beyond being physically attached, for the most part.


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## Dogma (Jul 9, 2007)

Cyckness said:


> Oh, for the love of all that is good, you can't imagine how much I want this to become a reality! The Naruto fanfiction scene is so chock full of shitty and cliche SasuSaku and NaruHina fanfics, that when a genuinely well-written and original fic of a less popular pairing comes along no one even notices it. O... how I loathe those two pairings.
> 
> (Did I mention I hate this pairing?)



Me and you both Cyck... me and you both. (Fanfics killed it.)


> Ummm.... I may be wrong about this (its not like I'm speaking from experience.... ahem...), but one of the draws of being a player is that there is no strong attachments to the girls they are with. They don't want to be attached to them beyond being physically attached, for the most part.



Fool! 

The draw of being a player is that you get play. 

It's preschool knowledge 
~Sarcasm~


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## mortalone (Jul 10, 2007)

Uhhh... didn't I say that players have LESS attachment to the girls they are with? 

Yes, that is true. Players do not form as deep and meaningful bonds. As I said, my closest friend is a "player." Ever since he and that girlfriend of 3 years broke up, he has not actually sustained a serious relationship; the closest he comes to doing so is having "fuck buddies."


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## Shinobikitty (Jul 11, 2007)

My Dad is a womanizer.... not a player... Players mostly are about the game. Womanizer just honestly enjoy "woman" so much... why chose one? He is emotionally attached and detached from each and every one. 

I know from watching my dad that alot of woman confide in him personal and private things. He listens but it doesn't mean they are his "true love forever" and most are completly aware.


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## Starber (Jul 11, 2007)

spudrow2005 said:


> pairing fics it seems like each pairing seems to be viewed as a certain style
> naruhina is that fluffy, cute till ur eyes bleed. with sweet loving lemons in it, and hinata has tears of joy all the time.
> 
> sasusaku- is either super angsty or super smutty, take ur pick
> ...


lol That is all so true. xD


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## Eureka (Jul 11, 2007)

*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				mortalone said:
			
		

> What happened to Oro? He's dead; Sasuke killed him. In other words, Oro turned out to be nothing more than a measuring stick for Sasuke!






Dude, what the hell? Thanks a lot!


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## mortalone (Jul 11, 2007)

Eureka said:


> Dude, what the hell? Thanks a lot!



Sorry about the spoiler, I'll cover it over with a tag.

It usually is a good idea to stay up to date in the manga when you read fanfiction, because even if I didn't reveal that here, you may end up reading it in someone else's fanfiction before it is released on television (that does not justify my mistake, but my point is that there are A LOT of things in part 2 of the manga that are talked about FREQUENTLY in fanfiction).

But, you'll be glad to note that there's something strange about his demise that's very intriguing.

Hopefully, you are once again thirsting to know what will happen, since not all the appeal is lost (I hope).


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## Dogma (Jul 11, 2007)

Who goes to the fanfiction section without being up to date on the manga? 

I've never seen that before.


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## nyce456 (Jul 11, 2007)

I only read a handful of fics now. All of the good ones are not being written or have been put on hiatus, which means that they aren't going to be written. I'm tired of Naru/Hina, which is why I refused to put it in my story. Everyone still think theres hope for Naru/Hina. You would think 30 chapters in that they would get the idea that it will not happen. 


Anyway, the quality of fics have declined simply because everyone thinks they can do it. I have no problem with that if you put effort into your story, and ultimately thats what these stories lack, effort.


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## DLQwijibo (Jul 13, 2007)

Back on the cliché topic (not pairings this time ) - I hate it when Naruto contacts the Kyuubi and it ends up giving him advice on what to wear... What would a Kyuubi know about fashion? And why isn't orange a good colour for him? In nature its a sign of danger and poison... Pretty good message to the Kyuubi I'd imagine. After all, it is an animal, albeit a frighteningly powerful one that can level mountains and cause tsunamis.

DLQ


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## Shodai (Jul 17, 2007)

I was reading a fanfic that was going good.

Then Naruto gained THIS dojutsu:



> Kit, the Kyugan is a doujutsu that all my kind can perform. As its name suggests, it comes in nine stages, which progress as you grow more experienced.
> 
> Firstly, there’s the Spirit Stage, this will allow you to copy any jutsu you see.
> 
> ...




ROFL??!


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## Grumman (Jul 17, 2007)

Cyph3r said:


> Then Naruto gained THIS dojutsu:


Holy Gary-Stus, Batman!


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## Noctrine (Jul 17, 2007)

Holy......


Well, that took alot of creativity. I mean, who would think to give Naruto the abilities of everyone from the series together!!! 

By the way, this thread wins. I gave it 5 stars.


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## Trelle (Jul 17, 2007)

> Cross Overs.
> 
> 
> NO
> ...



I wouldn't close the book on crossovers yet. 

I just recently found this EXCELLENT crossover with Naruto/Ramna 1/2 and honestly...I will recommend it to everyone. I've seen few fics that have been this well written, planned out and attentive to continuity like this one has. Hell, I've never even SEEN an episode of Ramna 1/2 but I was able to enjoy this one without wondering what the heck is going on. 

It's  by Largo (Summary: Sakura manages to push Sasuke out of the way of Orochimaru's cursed seal causing him to land his bite on her instead and awakening fragmented memories of a previous life. Who was she and why does Kyuubi know her as Godslayer? [AU][Ranma Xover]).

It's could possibly be the exception to your crossover hate. 

With that said, I've been coming across something that really bothers me. Personally, as long as something is well written, I can read anything no matter how cliched and done to death it is. However, one thing that pushes my tolerance is the GODLIKE!Naruto cliche. Sure the kid has more access to chakra than anyone in existence and that means he has potential up the wazoo but, it's pretty canon that he's not a genius of the likes of Sasuke, Neji, Kakashi, Shikamaru etc. 

I forgot exactly what fic it was, but I was sort of enjoying it because the plot was gripping (which is probably why it is popular) but, when Naruto suddenly became the prophecy foretold ultimate!summoner with crazy ass powers over the universe...I had to stop. My suspension of disbelief snapped and fell down like a landslide. There's powerful and then there's powerful. If the guy is able to defeat all the great shinobi nations without breaking a sweat? Maybe he's a bit too powerful. 

What really gets my goat in these types of stories is the changes to Naruto's character, that make him into this badass genius who lords his superiority over everything and everyone and therefore has to treat everyone with with kidgloves. I end up not rooting for Naruto, which was probably the author's intention, and feeling sorry for the other characters who have to suffer through the systematic patronization that Naruto assaults them with.

(There was one fic, I think For the Love of My Friends, which actually had one of the characters call Naruto out on that bullshit and for that I will love it forever.)

What's the point of teams if Naruto is just going to do it all himself anyways? Jeez. 
Also, what is the correlation between increased power and orange (or rather, the lack thereof)? I didn't think you couldn't have one without the other. This may seem a bit strange, but I get sad when the author feels that Naruto must shed his orange clothes as part of his journey to power. Why exactly do people think he was going on pranking sprees and making perverted jutsu in the first place? 

Yep, Naruto is your classic attention whore. 

The guy is starving for attention. This was established in the first freakin' episode/chapter. Wearing that obnoxious shade of orange is just asking for people to pay attention to you, even if it is negative in nature. Heck, it's his trademark. Why would he want to give it up?

Barring a extreme situation, I really don't see any reason to get Naruto out of ornage, except for the fact that the author doesn't see it as badass enough. 

With that said, I'm not really that bothered about the disposal of orange, I just sigh when I see it happen and keep reading. On that note, I have read and enjoyed several powerful!Naruto fics, but those are the ones that manage to retain whatever it is that makes Naruto, Naruto. 

Another thing that bugs me is this fixation on the Wave Country Arc. Seriously, it's tired. Especially if the character(s) in question are not part of Team 7. Is it that hard to come up with another C-rank mission gone bad if it must be done? Unless you manage to squeeze something fresh out of the Wave Country Arc, can we all just get a break from it? 

That goes for pretty much everything in canon. Unless you're changing it or shedding a new perspective on it, is it really necessary to feed canon back to the readers who should already be aware of it?


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## Gecka (Jul 18, 2007)

hold on lemme retrieve something that my hero posted. 



> 3. Cliche, predictable, overused, overdone, unoriginal fictions are highly loved.
> 
> Why are these fictions so loved when there are over a hundred other fics that are just like theirs?
> 
> ...



Immin love wif this dude...

that's basically what ticks me off.


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## GeneralSummer (Jul 18, 2007)

Amen, to almost every post about whats wrong with fanfictions to this day.
I consider myself a very talented writer, and the fan-fictions that I have written have been praised highly on the fanfiction.net community. But lately, I haven't even been inspired enough to finish writing my current story because, although they do get read over time. They are being completely over-shadowed by lame pairing fan-fictions.

I hope I live to see the day, where pairing fan-fictions will come to end.


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## Dogma (Jul 18, 2007)

You know,

All this talk about pathetic cliches has made me want to put all those cliches into one big old story and make it a parody.

_The heroic anti-cliche collaboration, of overused and idiotic cliches, that become cliches when combined into one._

It would win. 

~Wonder if anyone would get that...


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## Trelle (Jul 18, 2007)

I don't think you can honestly say that pairing centric fics are a cliche necessarily. I think it's more of a genre (romance?) and to say that _all_ pairing fics are bad is a disservice I think to the good fanfics out there.  

It would be better to say that within the romance/pairing genre, there are many plot and character devices that are cliche. 



> All this talk about pathetic cliches has made me want to put all those cliches into one big old story and make it a parody.



Honestly, the idea of a Sailor Moon/Naruto crossover has really gotten the plotbunnies hopping. And that scares me, because really, how the heck would that work.


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## Grumman (Jul 19, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> All this talk about pathetic cliches has made me want to put all those cliches into one big old story and make it a parody.
> 
> _The heroic anti-cliche collaboration, of overused and idiotic cliches, that become cliches when combined into one._
> 
> ...


It has been done before, such as in the story "Eek!"

Unless your storytelling style is good enough to make up for the rubbish plot and character development, I'd expect the parody to be just as painful as the originals.


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## Furious George (Jul 19, 2007)

GeneralSummer said:


> Amen, to almost every post about whats wrong with fanfictions to this day.
> I consider myself a very talented writer, and the fan-fictions that I have written have been praised highly on the fanfiction.net community. But lately, I haven't even been inspired enough to finish writing my current story because, although they do get read over time. They are being completely over-shadowed by lame pairing fan-fictions.
> 
> I hope I live to see the day, where pairing fan-fictions will come to end.




Although I totally get where your coming from, pairing fanfics are not the problem. Creativity is the problem... or rather, the lack of reception of creative romance among the Naruto fanfiction community. I have read romance fics that have kicked an insane amount of ass and were full of originality on ff.net, and I guran-damn-tee you that if I were to drop the names of those fics no one here would have any idea what I was talking about (i.e. Shadow of Hinata, Chance Encounters, Cutting Water). 

Don't fault the pairing fanfictions... fault awful writers who attempt pairing fanfictions.


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## Tetsuzaimon (Jul 19, 2007)

So called love affairs between villains and good guys ( see Itachi X Sakura for example)


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## Shodai (Jul 19, 2007)

I hate it when the Kyuubi randomly decides to be nice without any explanation.

Also the entire "ITACHI WAS INNOCENT!1"


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## Trelle (Jul 19, 2007)

> Unless your storytelling style is good enough to make up for the rubbish plot and character development, I'd expect the parody to be just as painful as the originals.



Exactly. Honestly, if I'd ever take the cliches I dislike and write a story from them, I'd just focus on what exactly makes me dislike them so much. After all, cliches are cliches because people liked them once. So if it's not going to be original at least write it well.


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## HO-OH (Jul 19, 2007)

cliches i found in storys

1.hinatas mom died when she was 5-with me being very behind on the sereis and with all the times they mentonied it i actually thought it was true

2.kyubbi talking to naruto at random times-seriously this is naruto not shaman king

3.super naruto-4 gods sake the show teaches hardwork and in this fic were in love it had naruto kill itachi at age 12

4.arashi uzamaki or kazama-where did these guys get these names

5.yondaime is narutos daddy-i support this but why not narutos brother

6.hinata the medic-nin-alot of people dont realize if that would happen in canon it condradict her ''theme of change''

7.pre-skip naruto being taller than pre-skip hinata-alot of writers and artist always make naruto taller when in the manga hinata is actually an inch taller

8.long lost relatives-naruto dose *not* have a big sister

9.hetro pairings in a yaoi story-ex.pairings in a story are sasunaru nejilee kibahina and saisaku do you really think that hinata and sakura would like that story

10.pairings 4 the sake of the main pairing-in a narusku story they actually use sasuhina when neither had any contact with each other 

11.hinata faintingg all the time-she only fainted twice in the manga


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## Trelle (Jul 20, 2007)

While I'm on the pairing topic...something that I have just thought about in regards to the execution of certain pairings in fandom.

I call it the Damsel in Distress dynamic. It's basically the norm for NaruHina (imo) and I see it rear its head in the odd KibaHina. Maybe it's because of the demographic of fanfic writers (female) and there's a bit of projection of the "knight in shining armor" onto Naruto, I don't know. All I know it that it when I see it happening, it unsettles me. 

I keep asking while I read "What does Hinata actually _do_ in this relationship?" 

Is Naruto in love with Hinata, or is he doing that rehabilitation thing (i.e. Neji, Gaara, etc.) with the added bonus of sexual tension. 

This cliche involves a big deal made over the fact that Hinata has been someone who sees him as human, as strong, as admirable (as sex on a stick). However, is that enough to justify a relationship? 

Personally, I don't think so. I'm not anti!NaruHina or anything. I think it could work. I just feel disappointed when authors don't want to make the effort (take the risk?) into creating a healthy, believable relationship between those two.


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## Kyon (Jul 20, 2007)

forkshy said:


> I can't stand it when during the gay sex people get their 'he's and 'him's all mixed up. Also, I can't stand it when people completely avoid using words like 'ass' in favor of flowery archaic terminology.



_He placed his love rocket gingerly into his anal cavity, and began to thrust madly, crazed with lust.

I feel somewhat strange right now. 

I hate fics that make the canon characters unbelievably powerful, almost to the point where I can see one of their characters soloing the fucking OPverse, which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the Naruverse. By far, if you couldn't tell._


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## Shizor (Jul 20, 2007)

I knew there was going to be a lot of people bashing NaruHina fanfics...

and rightly so.

I love NaruHina, but some of the fics...

 



> He placed his love rocket gingerly into his anal cavity, and began to thrust madly, crazed with lust.


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## katiekitten (Jul 20, 2007)

Things I hate to see in Naruto fanfiction:



*OCs interacting in a personal level with canon characters.*

...I just find it awfully presumptious, but that is just me. I personally haven't read a reasonable OC fic to date, so I'll admit I'm slightly biast.

*Character/Pairing Bashing. (Some of which has already appeared in this thread.)*

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but there is a difference between stating it and using it to demean others. If someone likes a crack pairing, let them be. A brilliant fanfic writer put in her profile: "I'm one of those people who think that any two people have the chance to develop a relationship, no matter if it's canon or not." (Fallacy, if anyone knows her.) I whole-heartedly agree. Love works in mysterious ways, and if you can write it and write it well, I cannot see where people get off insulting the pairing just because it odd.

Open your minds a little, try something new. You'll find that you'll enjoy yourselves alot more if you do.

Hell, I used to hate Kisame, but here I am, the sole writer and supporter of Kisatsun. 

*My final point: People who think that they can dictate to others what is 'right' or 'cliche' in fanfiction.*

Another thing I do not understand: How people think they have the right to tell others how to and how not to write a story - What ideas/concepts to use, not the technicals bits. Are you a published author? Are you a University proffessor with a Masters degree? In what way are you better than the rest of us that you can tell us what is right and what is wrong?

People saying what pairings/ideas people can write and what they can't, and the amount of essays telling people 'how to write a good fic,' that focus on the above points... Those annoy me, personally. It insinuates that they think that they are better than you, when all to often they are, to state it plainly, not. Help on grammer/spelling and the like I'm fine with. (I've reffered to them in the past - they can be quite useful.)

On the right and wrong ways to write a story, on spelling, structure and grammer, there is a right and wrong way, and if you get it wrong, people have every right to tell you that you have and I'm a hundred percent behind them. Ideas/concepts? Everyone likes different things. You can't just write off a story as bad/wrong because you don't like the subject matter. (I personally hate science fiction stories. *shudders*)

I may not like OCs, but I don't condemn a writer or story because of it. I read something because it actually interests me, not because of characters or pairings involved, although that might influence my decision. Just because an idea is well used does not neccessarily mean it is bad. Writers that are able to take such an idea and give it their own individual flairs, make it *shine* out from all of the others, are writers, in my truly honest opinion, that should be recognised. Has anyone here read  by Fallacy?  by DeGlace?  by blizzie8836? Hell, even  by leafygirl? These stories are some of the most popular stories in the Naruto fandom, and yet each goes along a so called 'over-used' and 'cliched' plotline. Found involves Sakura getting kidnapped by the Akatsuki, as does Uneasy Coexistance. Baby Blues is one of the 'hated' highschool fics, and Loophole involves Sakura healing Itachi's eyes. Yet each of them is so _vastly_ different, so beautifully original - they take what might have been cliched and turn it into something wholly different - and written so well that you want to stay up all night to finish them, and the thought of 'cliche' is never farther away from your mind.

You should read them when you get the chance. You might find out something new about yourself.


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## Furious George (Jul 20, 2007)

katiekitten said:


> *OCs interacting in a personal level with canon characters.*
> 
> ...I just find it awfully presumptious, but that is just me. I personally haven't read a reasonable OC fic to date, so I'll admit I'm slightly biast.



I agree to a certain extent.... It depends on how exhaustive their interaction with the main character is. Coming across a canon character and giving advice, having a duel, etc, is IMO okay... But when the canon character actually falls in love with the OC, or vice versa... yeah, very presumptious. I don't read OC/canon pairing fics under any circumstance. I know it will just wind up pissing me off.



> *Character/Pairing Bashing. (Some of which has already appeared in this thread.)*
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but there is a difference between stating it and using it to demean others. If someone likes a crack pairing, let them be. A brilliant fanfic writer put in her profile: "I'm one of those people who think that any two people have the chance to develop a relationship, no matter if it's canon or not." (Fallacy, if anyone knows her.) I whole-heartedly agree. Love works in mysterious ways, and if you can write it and write it well, I cannot see where people get off insulting the pairing just because it odd.
> 
> ...



IF the writing is on-point, then I have no problem with most crack or unusual pairings (hell, I have written crack pairing fics)... so I pretty much agree. Still, chances are that my hatred for NaurHina and SasuSaku will never allow me to read a fic where either of them are the sole pairing (a side pairing, maybe). Close-minded? Definitely. But you know... whatever.



> *My final point: People who think that they can dictate to others what is 'right' or 'cliche' in fanfiction.*
> 
> Another thing I do not understand: How people think they have the right to tell others how to and how not to write a story. Are you a published author? Are you a University proffessor with a Masters degree? In what way are you better than the rest of us that you can tell us what it right an what is wrong?



Whoa.... I was with you up until this point.

I cannot begin to tell you how tired I am of the concepts you have just posted above. Is society becoming so 'sensitive' and politically correct that you can't even critique someone's work without them whining and becoming defensive about it? Sigh.... let me make one thing perfectly clear... There *is *a wrong way to write a story and there *is* a right way to write a story, and it is NOT a matter of opinion.

There are two different elements to a story. There is the structure side of a story (or in this case, a fic) and there is an expressive side of a story. The structure side is the skeleton that one's story stands on.... The things we spend a better part of our childhood learning about in school (grammar, spelling, detail, logical and proper thought being put into writing, applying common sense into your literature). The expressive side is what covers the skeleton, and this is where the actual plot, dialogue and emotions from the writer comes into play. If the expressive side is not to my liking, I can state it as such, but it would only be my opinion. I can say that the idea and concept in question would have been better if done in such and such a way, but again it would be *my* opinion. However, when the structure of someone's fic is out of whack (they offer no detail on the surrondings or the characters, the dialogue makes no logical sense, bad grammar everywhere, and in the case of fanfiction the characters are all horrendously OOC).... then the writiing itself is bad. Its not a matter of opinion at that point. It's a matter of fact. Their writing sucks in such a case. Plain and simple... and you better believe that we have EVERY RIGHT to call them on it. We hardly need to be published authors or Professors to know what reads well and what reads like shit. If you write and constantly make amateur mistakes that 5th grade english class should have done away with, then your writing sucks. (BTW, this isn't something I just cooked up. This is college education talking) *shrugs*

Although I have personally been called a harsh critic, I will not completely shoot someone down because I feel their expressive style is off. I may lay my own criticism on them pretty thick, but I won't be offensive. I will, however, hurt some feelings if the writer doesn't even have the common sense or decency to write his work in a constructive, readable manner. I will tell them exactly how I feel, especially since they had the gull to put it on the net for me to read it... and another thing that gets to me since we are now on the subject... I abolutely can't stand when a writer post his fic on the web with the side-note "no negative criticism". WTF? Its like, what is the point of posting your fic here then if you don't want anyone to tell you how they REALLY feel about it? Seriously, this isn't pre-school. If your going to get emo and bitchy everytime someone tells you that your fic is no good, then maybe you should keep it to yourself and to your small circle of friends who are going to stroke your ego and lie to you by telling you that your fic is actually good.... tch, fuckin' kids these days. (last line wasn't referring to you personally. Just letting off some steam. )

To me, it is not pretentious or elitist to tell someone what is the 'right' way to write something or what is 'cliche' at all.... It is pretentious to have your head so far up your ass that you feel that no one can tell you how to improve your fic.



> I may not like OCs, but I don't condemn a writer or story because of it. I read something because it actually interests me, not because of characters or pairings involved, although that might influence my decision. *Just because an idea is well used does not mean it is 'cliched' or 'bad'*


 
Actually, that's exactly what it means.

_Cliche- a trite or overused expression or idea._

Whether the cliche is used in a good or bad way doesn't make it any less or more of a cliche. A cliche is a cliche.



> The _real_ writers are those that are able to take such an idea and give it their own individual flairs, make it *shine* out from all of the others. Has anyone here read  by Fallacy?  by DeGlace?  by blizzie8836? Hell, even  by leafygirl? These stories are some of the most popular stories in the Naruto fandom, and yet each goes along a so called 'over-used' and 'cliched' plotline. Found involves Sakura getting kidnapped by the Akatsuki, as does Uneasy Coexistance. Baby Blues is one of the 'hated' highschool fics, and Loophole involves Sakura healing Itachi's eyes. Yet each of them is so _vastly_ different, so beautifully original and written so well that you want to stay up all night to finish them, and the thought of 'cliche' is never farther away from your mind.
> 
> You should read them when you get the chance. You might find out something new about yourself.



I agree sort of.... but a _real_ (*rolls eyes*) writer is also someone who seeks to break ground in their writing and to create something that is fresh and new for the reader. Although I agree that a good writer can make a cliche seem vibrant and fresh, I (and most others) would rather just see something completely innovative altogether. An idea can only be re-hashed so many times.


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## Larisha (Jul 20, 2007)

Number one Fanfic cliche that pisses me off more than anything in the world (besides Sasuke):

Things that involve ANYONE falling into the Naruto dimension. I have yet to see one that was NOT a mary-sue or completely out of character or just generally bad-writing, because right off the bat, you have plot problems. Where did this 'magic portal' come from? Almost never answered, and if it is answered, it's answered stupidly.

OCs. Well, more specifically, OCs that get paired with real characters, even if they're from the 'Narutoverse'. I've seen SO MANY god-damn fanfictions with KabuOC than it makes me was to scream.

OCs that are related to other characters. No, just no.

OCs that have some crazy mystical 'WTFOWNED!' power. We get enough of that from Sasuke, we don't need it from you, thank you.

Pairings that are cliche and annoying as hell in the way that they are often carried out:
i*c*st pairings (Uchihacest)
NaruHina (Hell, she might be a bit shakey, but she's not that weak!)
SasuSaku (Sasuke is not going to come back to Konoha for her. If he loved her that much, he wouldn't hae left in the first place.)
NaruSaku (Sakura is, in some ways, a stronger ninja than Naruto. She can take care of herself.)
SasuNaru (Same as SasuSaku)
OroSasu (He has an ego, he is NOT a p*d*p****, he would NOT rape Sasuke.)

and...I'm sure theres more, but I can't think of them at the moment.


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## Grumman (Jul 20, 2007)

katiekitten said:


> *OCs interacting in a personal level with canon characters.*


If it is done well, and isn't the sole purpose of the story, it can be quite enjoyable. For example, I am a fan of Mechalich's divergent-timeline story "Behind Killer's Eyes". I think the key is that it should take time for the characters to get to know each other, instead of making immediate judgements and sticking with them.



> *Character/Pairing Bashing. (Some of which has already appeared in this thread.)*
> 
> <snip>


Personally, I feel there are some pairings that will not work, ever, without throwing away any pretense of internal consistancy. With the exception of humourous fiction, to me internal consistancy is one of the most important things in any story.



> *My final point: People who think that they can dictate to others what is 'right' or 'cliche' in fanfiction.*
> 
> Another thing I do not understand: How people think they have the right to tell others how to and how not to write a story. Are you a published author? Are you a University proffessor with a Masters degree? In what way are you better than the rest of us that you can tell us what it right an what is wrong?


Since when does one have to be a recognised professional to have the right to speak on a subject? And if someone writes flawed pieces of fiction, isn't it better to let them know what they are doing wrong, so that they can improve?

Cliches are another matter. I do agree that a cliched concept can be redeemed by a good author. But unless someone else has done the filtering for you, it is difficult to find the gems scattered among the thousands of poorly written ones.

ETA: There are some popular concepts which should never have survived long enough to become cliches. I'd be inclined to say these are beyond redemption, no matter your writing skills.


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## katiekitten (Jul 20, 2007)

Cyckness said:
			
		

> I abolutely can't stand when a writer post his fic on the web with the side-note "no negative criticism". WTF? Its like, what is the point of posting your fic here then if you don't want anyone to tell you how they REALLY feel about it? Seriously, this isn't pre-school. If your going to get emo and bitchy everytime someone tells you that your fic is no good, then maybe you should keep it to yourself and to your small circle of friends who are going to stroke your ego and lie to you by telling you that your fic is actually good.... tch, fuckin' kids these days. (last line wasn't referring to you personally. Just letting off some steam. )
> 
> To me, it is not pretentious or elitist to tell someone what is the 'right' way to write something or what is 'cliche' at all.... It is pretentious to have your head so far up your ass that you feel that no one can tell you how to improve your fic.



I'm right with you, there. (I've bitten off the heads of a fair few people like that as well. :x) I have a feeling I might have misworded that bit. xD

I was reffering to people saying what pairings/ideas people can write and what they can't, and the amount of essays telling people 'how to write a good fic,' that focus on the above points. Those annoy me, personally. It insinuates that they think that they are better than you, when all to often they are, to state it plainly, not. Help on grammer/spelling and the like I'm fine with. (I've reffered to them in the past - they can be quite useful.)

On the right and wrong ways to write a story, on spelling, structure and grammer, I'm completely with you. (The amount of people I've had to talk through grammer with is slightly scary, one paticular friend of mine had no clue how to use tenses. How on earth do you explain that? o.o) Ideas/concepts? Everyone likes different things. You can't just write off a story as bad/wrong because you don't like the subject matter. (I personally hate science fiction stories. *shudders*)



> I agree sort of.... but a _real_ (*rolls eyes*) writer is also someone who seeks to break ground in their writing and to create something that is fresh and new for the reader. Although I agree that a good writer can make a cliche seem vibrant and fresh, I (and most others) would rather just see something completely innovative altogether. An idea can only be re-hashed so many times.



I'll back down on that, although I still think that you shouldn't just label a story bad because you think the idea is cliched - it commonly isn't. xD But I understand where you're coming from - new is good. 




			
				Grunman said:
			
		

> Since when does one have to be a recognised professional to have the right to speak on a subject? And if someone writes flawed pieces of fiction, isn't it better to let them know what they are doing wrong, so that they can improve?



Sorry, like I said above, I misworded it. I am with you there completely. 

I think I'm going to edit my post. xD


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## Trelle (Jul 20, 2007)

I think a lot of people are just venting about what they see in the fandom. I don't think this thread is necessarily a what NOT to do in fanfic writing. 

Once again, cliche become cliche because people liked the idea originally. People usually stick to what works and so we see it over and over again. If someone can write a cliche well, good for them. I've read plenty Naruto fic that are very cliche, but are executed well. 

I'm a bit different, I hate when people review with spelling/grammar issues. Unless it's a huge problem that gets in the way of reading, I don't see why someone needs to take their time to point out that they spelled the word "weird" wrong in Chapter 8 or something.



> deas/concepts? Everyone likes different things. You can't just write off a story as bad/wrong because you don't like the subject matter. (I personally hate science fiction stories. *shudders*)


I'm more of an idea/concept person and when reviewing I pay more attention to that than anything else. I think saying "paring fics SUCK eww, stop writing!" is a lot different than "I think you're pacing the relationship too fast for my liking".


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## Katydid (Jul 20, 2007)

I've been writing fiction for a long time and there are many, many things that will make me click the back button without a second thought. Here are my top 10 cliche peeves:

*1. Rape fics*
I'm sick of stories where a character is raped in the first chapter and then the only way that they are able to recover emotionally is to have sex with their "twoo wuv" or (worse) they end up falling for the person who raped them. Rape is not romantic. It is not warm and fuzzy. It is not an appropriate romantic motif. Period. And for some strange reason, it's usually Sasuke who is the victim, and his characterization is completely bastardized throughout the entire story.

*2. Text speak*
It can save me money on my cell phone. It can make me want to gouge my eyes out when I see it in a fanfic. It's not funny, and it's not "lol lyk soooo kyoot!"

*3. M-PREG!*
The first time I read an m-preg fic I thought it was hilarious. Then I realized that there were about 3,000 other stories exactly like it. It's even worse when the story is an epic angst fic. Especially if one male character (usually Sasuke or Kakashi) impregnates another male character (usually Naruto or Iruka). For the last time: the male body does not have the equipment to support a fetus. There is no way to give a reasonable explanation for m-preg. And no, Kyuubi chakra does not cause pregnancy.

*4. Script format (AKA: Chat room fics)*
One is funny. It gets old the two millionth time around. Same goes for "Spin the Bottle", "Truth or Dare," "Ask the Naruto Characters ANYTHING", and "Sleepover" themes.

*5. Yaoi for the sake of yaoi*
I have nothing against people who enjoy reading or writing yaoi. If it's tastefully done, I will read it myself. But sometimes it feels as though the author looked at the cast and thought, _Gee...there are lots more guys than girls. I want to make sure that everybody gets a little luvin', but I don't want the girls to look slutty.... Wait, I've got it! I'll pair up all the left over guys with each other! Now everybody can be happy...YAY!_ Another thing that irks me about yaoi is that the the female characters are usually portrayed as ball busting she-devils. The male characters are usually out of character as well--or else the author decides to randomly turn one of the boys into a girl so that they won't feel quite so squick-y while writing some of the...ahem...heavier scenes.

*6. LYK OMG MY FRIENDS AND I MEET NARUTO LOL!*
'Nuff said.

*7. Uchihacest*
It bothers me when I find a fic where the reasoning behind this pairing obviously went something like this: (a) I think Sasuke is hawt. (b) I think Itachi is hawt. Therefore, (c) writing them having wild monkey sex will be hawt squared!

*8. Tema / Shika / Ino fics*
Don't get me wrong. I love ShikaTema, and I love ShikaIno. What I don't love are fics in which one of the girls (usually Ino) is portrayed as a horrible bee-yotch so that Shikamaru has an excuse to hook up with the other girl. The team seven love triangle also suffers from this syndrome: Either Sasuke is a horrible, abusive jerk or Naruto has the intelligence and social IQ of a peanut. This prompts Sakura to latch onto the other guy for support. The other guy is always all too happy to oblige.

*9. "I vant to suck your bloooood!" (AKA: Vampire fics)*
I actually really enjoy unique vampire / werewolf / spirit / etc. fiction. But about 99% of Naruto vampire fiction is the same. Usually, it's Sasuke who is a vampire, and he is either totally evil or else he's pure in heart but an angst-ridden puddle of jello. The innocent love interest is played by Sakura (if it's a het pairing) or Naruto (if it's yaoi). They are either spirited away by (evil) vampire Sasuke or they must help (angsty) vampire Sasuke redeem himself. Usually by killing the vampire who turned him. Who happens to be Itachi. Convenient much?

*10. Character A switches bodies with character B" fics*
Body swapping fics have been done to death. So have stories in which one of the characters gets turned into an animal. Usually it's Naruto being turned into a fox. Or Sasuke turning into a puppy. It especially frightens me to see fics with summaries that look like this: "Sasuke was turned into a puppy and now he needs Naruto to save him! What will happen? Sasunaru!"   All I can say to that is: Please tell me the Sasunaru happens AFTER Sasuke becomes a human again. Please?

Wow, this ended up being a lot longer than I meant it to be. Hope I don't sound too persnickety.....


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## tsuchi_hime (Jul 20, 2007)

Katydid said:


> *3. M-PREG!*
> The first time I read an m-preg fic I thought it was hilarious. Then I realized that there were about 3,000 other stories exactly like it. It's even worse when the story is an epic angst fic. Especially if one male character (usually Sasuke or Kakashi) impregnates another male character (usually Naruto or Iruka). For the last time: the male body does not have the equipment to support a fetus. There is no way to give a reasonable explanation for m-preg. And no, Kyuubi chakra does not cause pregnancy.



Thank you! Really, this is my pet peev in fanfiction, not only in Naruto but every other fandom! >.< if men were meant to have babies, they'd have a vagina and a womb. Kthxbai.



> *6. LYK OMG MY FRIENDS AND I MEET NARUTO LOL!*
> 'Nuff said.



Amen.



> *7. Uchihacest*
> It bothers me when I find a fic where the reasoning behind this pairing obviously went something like this: (a) I think Sasuke is hawt. (b) I think Itachi is hawt. Therefore, (c) writing them having wild monkey sex will be hawt squared!



It saddens me how much this crops up... -_- Really, I enjoy Uchihacest when it's well written but 90% of fics are exactly as you describe. What *really* irks me is when authors make Sasuke the weepy uke and end it along the lines of *'Omigosh, Nii-san, I now realise that my hate was pure wuv! Lets go have hawt butt smekks!'* ... makes me want to find a nice, solid brick wall to beat my head against... ?_?



> *10. Character A switches bodies with character B" fics*
> Body swapping fics have been done to death. So have stories in which one of the characters gets turned into an animal. Usually it's Naruto being turned into a fox. Or Sasuke turning into a puppy. It especially frightens me to see fics with summaries that look like this: "Sasuke was turned into a puppy and now he needs Naruto to save him! What will happen? Sasunaru!"   All I can say to that is: Please tell me the Sasunaru happens AFTER Sasuke becomes a human again. Please?



Again, I agree. Freaky Friday had been done twice; lets leave it at that, shall we? Yes, animal fics are scary. And if you think *those* kind are scary... you've never seen KibaAka fics. O_o *That* is disturbing...

Another hate of mine is cross-overs. I know, lots of people do them but 99.9% of the time, the idea used for universe hopping is generic and doesn't make a lick of sense. Crossover pairings scare me too. It'll just... never happen. Ever. Harry Potter/Naruto fics are the worst for this... if I see one more Sasuke/Draco fic, I'll tear my hair out ._. Okay; mini-rant over.


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## Gecka (Jul 20, 2007)

ABOSLUTE PET PEEVE CLICHE`!!!~ Naruto rescues Sasuke after killing orochimaru after getting power from Kyubi who was so willing to help.*what...the...fux?!!* Honestly why in the hell would Kyubi help Naruto unless he was going to die? Totally pisses me off. 

Then there's the Sakura fights Hinata over Naruto cliche`. I SERIOUSLY doubt that Sakura would bother fighting anybody over Naruto. Thw worst event though is when she decides to SHARE....*sigh* It will  never happen. No girl in the Naruto Universe would even think about having girl/girl/guy sex.


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## spudrow2005 (Jul 20, 2007)

first off iv got a question, what the hell is a gary/mary sue?
ive got a few answers to some of the post people made

hmm well to be honest i ever read oc fics unless they are tied to a pairing fic but low and behold i got smashed one night and when i woke up i had started writing a fic that had the 1st part about the 4th and ocs (because we really didnt see anything about his reign so u kinda have to) several people liked it so i kept going.

as for the no neg comments on fics i can take people not likeing my fic, hell i can take them posting comments about not liking; the moment i made a tiajutsu user with sharingan i knew i was gonna piss some people off. but for god sakes give me something that i can work with, if ur just gonna comment something like "u suck balls" it serves no purpose and just demeans the whole fic. i prefer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism good and bad.take 1 guy who commented on my story he wrote a 1 page essay on how much he hated my story right down to the fact that he hated the main oc's name. im srry but no fanfic author is gonna want a hate essay that big on their fic reviews. but if ur gonna comment on something like ur not paying enough attention to grammar, needs more detail, improve fight scenes ect (i have a few comments on grammar since i didnt proofread when i first started) trouble with grammar sometimes THAT i allow and welcome

over powered ocs
yeah that can be annoying sometimes but come on how many people like to creat super weak oc's and have them as major characters in their fic. personally since the first part of my fic is about oc's i tried to be as careful as possible with that. i wanted the main oc to be a little bit weaker than itachi so he could hold his own against akatsuki members but couldnt kill sannin like jiraya or guys like itachi and live. i thought i did a good job and alot of my readers did but the other day i got a 1page hate essay about having 1 of course it was alittle late in the fic to change all that 

*new fan fic irrations*
 Naruto going for being gay to magicly straight im not a yaoi fan but come on it one or the other (well unless ur bi) but u cant go from being gay to suddenly developing an attraction to women. i read a naruhina fic that did that and i quit after the first chapter

heres one Naruto suddenly getting smart. come one naruto is not a smart guy and doesnt know alot of shinobi facts because he was goofing off as a kid changing that reallly goes against the goofball mc that kishi made him to be

3some/poligamy pairing- i know that sasusakunaru or nejtenlee fics are rather popular but come on love triangles dont work people are instictively drawn to relationships with 1 other person thats why people get jealous

and heres one im probably gonna get flak for yaoi pairings. i know its a big fandom but none of the characters in naruto are gay(well at the moment) its improbable and improbable things bug me

super crack pairings-  i dont mind some crack parings like ankoiru (mainly because i think it would be funny that anko abducts iruka and makes him her love slave) but super crack is just wrong zetsuxakimaru, sasuhina (they never even talk to eacother in the series), alXtemari. pairings where people have not even a chance of interaction arnt gonna happen period


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## Smash_2451 (Jul 20, 2007)

On the whole 'Japanese in English fics' subject.

The aforementioned pretty much sum it up in a nutshell, though on the subject of using random Japanese words and such in a fan fiction, I'd have to disagree.  If it fits within the context of the story and you can elaborate on it so the reader isn't left confused (talking about a simple word, not a sentence or phrase), then by all means, do it.  It'd be stupid, in my opinion, to say that the Naruto characters were lounging around drinking 7-Up and Coca-Cola while listening to the Bee Gees.  Why not just say that Tsunade was bored in her office and started drinking something like sake or awamori.  The difference is that in the latter beverage, you'd have to describe whatever awamori is.  (For those who don't know, it's a beverage found mostly in Okinawa, Japan, so say something like a smuggler trying to make money took it from there and brought it to Konoha.)  Small things like 'Baka' or 'Sugoi,' yes, those can take you out of it, but come on, if you watch a fair amount of anime, you ought to know what those mean and shouldn't throw a fit just because one word took the place of the other.

Look at One Piece, for example.  They alternate between using the word "Captain" and "Senchou," which means captain.  I don't understand why they just don't use one over the other, but that doesn't and shouldn't detract from the program.  I'm not going to be turned off every time Usopp refers to himself as "Captain Usopp" and I go, "No, that's not right.  It should be "Senchou Usopp."  That's stupid.  The writers for the anime speak Japanese, yet we see English words pop up every now and then in ANY anime, but people still watch it.  This doesn't make the series any more enjoyable (or detestable, make your choice) than it used to be.  Don't say that because they speak Japanese that EVERY SINGLE WORD has to be Japanese, and certainly don't say that because a writer speaks English (even though you have no idea what their native language is unless they've made it clear) that their entire story should be in English.  I find it hard to trust that a fic is entirely better if it's totally in one language.  Don't even say that in anime you can make an exception when English used because that's an entirely different thing.  That's crap.  If you don't want to hear English in anime fan fiction, why would you be perfectly fine when you hear it in the actual anime when they're supposed to be speaking Japanese.

What if Gai, in the original Japanese episode, never said the words "Dynamic Entry," but said what it was in Japanese.  People probably wouldn't talk about it as much in my opinion.  Hell, in a recent episode preview, he clearly said "BIG FIRST DAY!"  Who was taken out of the experience by hearing three ENGLISH words in a program where everyone speaks Japanese?  Adding it doesn't make a story authentic- it just means an author wanted to include it for the sake of including it.  It's their own idea and if it was a cliche, as most of you have called it, people would complain more about it and demand that there be less Japanese words and phrases in fan fiction period.

But what do I know?  I don't consider myself a "talented writer" or anything like that.  If what I write is considered cliche or out of style, then it just is.  The same goes for any writer.  There's some originality out there, but that does'nt necessarily mean it's all GOOD or well written or that they'll even garner praise from the community.  Take one of the "popular" humor fics on FF.net, "The Mating Frenzy."  People praise it and love it to death, but I personally dislike it.  Not because I think it's cliche, but because it's not funny and I think it's very rushed.  Regardless, the person will continue to write in spite of what others think and may or may not take their words into consideration.  Get over this superiority complex that any fanfic cliche you can think of isn't going to stop appearing in fan fictions out there, because they aren't.  Mediocre works (such as what I just mentioned) will continue to appear and outshine the supposed good stories because readers don't know how to react when they read something that's well thought out, has an engaging storyline, strong character development, all of those key points that writers consider to make a "good" fan fiction.  Readers, the majority in my opinion, just want those short, spontaneous bursts that'll get their attention for a few seconds until they can click "Back" and find something else.

There are tons of other cliches, but I may or may not go into those later.


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## spudrow2005 (Jul 21, 2007)

Smash_2451 said:


> On the whole 'Japanese in English fics' subject.
> 
> The aforementioned pretty much sum it up in a nutshell, though on the subject of using random Japanese words and such in a fan fiction, I'd have to disagree.  If it fits within the context of the story and you can elaborate on it so the reader isn't left confused (talking about a simple word, not a sentence or phrase), then by all means, do it.  It'd be stupid, in my opinion, to say that the Naruto characters were lounging around drinking 7-Up and Coca-Cola while listening to the Bee Gees.  Why not just say that Tsunade was bored in her office and started drinking something like sake or awamori.  The difference is that in the latter beverage, you'd have to describe whatever awamori is.  (For those who don't know, it's a beverage found mostly in Okinawa, Japan, so say something like a smuggler trying to make money took it from there and brought it to Konoha.)  Small things like 'Baka' or 'Sugoi,' yes, those can take you out of it, but come on, if you watch a fair amount of anime, you ought to know what those mean and shouldn't throw a fit just because one word took the place of the other.
> 
> ...


DAMMIT id rep u but im capped out for the day >.< 

i agree most fanfic readers are manga readers or subbed watchers so using some japanes phrases just as the japanese jutsu names or baka/sama/ ect make it more relatable to the manga/subbed anime. plus i think its funnier when sakura is about to break naruto's bones into calcium supplements she yells "BAKA!!" or something of the equivelant better than the us dubed of her just screaming naruto's name and then breaking his bones


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## Dogma (Jul 21, 2007)

Smash_2451 said:


> On the whole 'Japanese in English fics' subject.
> 
> The aforementioned pretty much sum it up in a nutshell, though on the subject of using random Japanese words and such in a fan fiction, I'd have to disagree.  If it fits within the context of the story and you can elaborate on it so the reader isn't left confused (talking about a simple word, not a sentence or phrase), then by all means, do it.  It'd be stupid, in my opinion, to say that the Naruto characters were lounging around drinking 7-Up and Coca-Cola while listening to the Bee Gees.  Why not just say that Tsunade was bored in her office and started drinking something like sake or awamori.  The difference is that in the latter beverage, you'd have to describe whatever awamori is.  (For those who don't know, it's a beverage found mostly in Okinawa, Japan, so say something like a smuggler trying to make money took it from there and brought it to Konoha.)  Small things like 'Baka' or 'Sugoi,' yes, those can take you out of it, but come on, if you watch a fair amount of anime, you ought to know what those mean and shouldn't throw a fit just because one word took the place of the other.
> 
> ...



Well, Cyck and the others handled Katiekitten's little rant (or whatever) so I guess it's up to me to tackle this one. Goody...


*Spoiler*: _ Japanese in English stories and vise versa._ 





*The Spirits are always with you!*
_(Oh yeah... Definite plus on this one. )_​
So you happen to like japanese words in english fanfiction. That's acceptable. 

Does that make it any good? Most times, no.

I don't mind the occasional "Baka" here or there, in fact I use it in my stories when using Temari or someone who happens to use the word alot. And in those circumstances I'm sure very few people will disagree about placing tat word in there in oppose to idiot or fool.

However, when it's not appropriate then what's the point? I'm not Kapanese, and I highly doubt the person writing the story is in Japan (not that they couldn't be Japanese, or speaks fluent Japanese but why would you write an English story for English fans on a English forum? Doesn't really make sense.) 

I personlly don't see the need for a million Japanese words all over the place. What's the need to flaunt your knowledge of a different language in an story written in the English language. Just don't use the word unless it makes sense to do so.

People aren't complaining about the use of it in general, it's when it's used in a fashion that sucks so much that it draws them away from it. If it wasn't annoying, it probably woulnd't be mentioned.





*Spoiler*: _ To the lovely misunderstandings, and the rants that spew on and on like a lovely cacophony from a group of dying birds._ 




​
Do you all even understand the point of this thread?  

"*Fanfic cliches that make you sick!*"

It's not slapping any fics in the face, or going on angry rants that bash the hell out of every aspect of a story. Or saying a story sucks *because* it has these things.

It's people who went to fic A, took a look at a certain element of the fic, and said. 

"Hmm...this isn't too good."

Then went to fic B, saw the same element, and said.

"Hmmm... this sucks."

Fic C, same element. 

"This shit blows!"

And so on and so forth, until the element (which would have become overused/"cliche" at this point, really just starts to suck no matter where you see it.)

That's about it. 

Does it mean that fics *cannot* be good when they have something like that? Not at all. But right from the get go, that cliche is very rarely giving the story a good impression.

Cliches became cliches, because they were overused. Cliches' made you sick, because the instances that you saw them in, sucked. 

Once again, that's about it.

Superiority complex? What's the problem with saying something is annoying? I don't see anyone petitioning to put a massive ban on things when they appear. I just happen to see some fanfiction writers and reviewers who are talking about what they don't like.

Get over the whole Heroic complex, in which you show up in the nick of time, and stop the big bad members of the thread from bashing something you found interesting.

Or try to say something intelligent so other people will reflect back on it and say "oh shit that guy was right, I am being a tyrant by having an opinion about an obviously annoying thing."

It's an opinion, just like you stated yours, they're stating theirs. The same thing to the writer who will write whatever the hell he/she/it wants. Otherwise, they wouldn't be writers, but trained dogs with some orders and a keyboard.

I don't know if you or anyone else finds something wrong with it, but I know I probably don't care. I'm not going to try and forbid someone from using a cliche (because just about everything is a cliche nowadays.) 

But I sure as hell know that if it sucks to me,then I'm going to say that it sucks.

~_Hakanami
For the record, I had fun with the pictures._


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## Kyon (Jul 21, 2007)

_Simpsons did it. 

Nice to see that you're alive, Hak. Review my new story, lol

I use occasional Japanese, but only for jutsu names. I also translate at the end of the chapter (though in all honesty I usually forget to)._


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## Dogma (Jul 21, 2007)

Kyon said:


> _
> Nice to see that you're alive, Hak. Review my new story, lol
> _



Yeah, 

Not quite dead, but back with 75% more jackass. 

~As far as your story is concerned, I'm more suprised you actually wrote something. But I'll take a look at it.

~I don't see why people translate at the end of the story, If you use a word like "sake" and I don't know what it is, then I probably will pick up on it if that character starts getting drunk. The same applies to other things.

If you describe a certain type of food, or other remotely uninteresting item that holds no real purpose towards the chain of events, then why even bother?

It's not like someones going to be mulling through the story and then say.

"OMG! (_insert unimportant word here_) I MUST GO FIND OUT WHAT THAT IS!"


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## Kyon (Jul 21, 2007)

_I doubt the majority of fanfic readers will know what *Nitouryu* or *Ittoryu* mean, and it's kind of essential. I only translate what is essential.

Unimportant items like food can bite me. _


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## Trelle (Jul 21, 2007)

A little Japanese goes a long way. Personally, I find that the suffixes (e.g. san, kun, sama, chan etc.) are very important, and that cutting them out is loosing something to translation. English just doesn't have an appropriate translation for them and Naruto seems to use it more often than most since different characters operate under different states of power and authority. Or  in the case of Naruto, it indicates a certain feeling towards someone else.

Oh and I think that when characters exclaim "Oh Kami-sama!" it's cute. 

But I agree with everyone else, that less is more and fics that are confused as to which language it wants to be read in are not fun to read through. 



> 1. Rape fics
> I'm sick of stories where a character is raped in the first chapter and then the only way that they are able to recover emotionally is to have sex with their "twoo wuv" or (worse) they end up falling for the person who raped them. Rape is not romantic. It is not warm and fuzzy. It is not an appropriate romantic motif. Period. And for some strange reason, it's usually Sasuke who is the victim, and his characterization is completely bastardized throughout the entire story.



I feel that if you have to handle rape then you have to do it carefully and realistically. Will said victim bounce back from an experience to fall in love with the person who raped them a day later? No. I gotta point to Cyckness's story for a good example of a rape-like situation. Although we still have to see how both character react to each other after the fact.

I can read lots of weird things, but mpreg I just cannot take seriously. If it's not a crack!fic, then I don't get it. I don't know why it's so important that someone has to get pregnant in a relationship, when there are so many other options they could go. Adopting? Surrogate Mother? I mean, I can see the potential for lots of drama here. I'm not sure what two guys miss out on by not being able to pop out a kid.


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## Steven Pinhead (Jul 22, 2007)

*1. Yuri and Yaoi that takes itself seriously*

Hey, I love Yuri, and Yaoi is your decision, but come one. I seriously doubt there's actually gay characters in Naruto that have received serious development. But you can write your angsty romances,or your crack lemons, as long as it's just to tell a story. But I absolutely hate Naruto yaoi. There is no way Sasuke would want to fuck Naruto, or any guy. The same goes for every guy in the show. Oh, and everytime a yaoi fangirl hears me give this speech, they call me homophobic. Well, guess what? I'm bisexual honey. Homophobia would make me a hypocrit.

*2. i*c*st*
This is quite obviously self-explanatory.

*3. OC's*
You've got to be a very good writer for me to give anything with an OC in it a chance. I don't care if they have no interaction with the main characters at all.

*4. AU fics*
What many people call AU is actually called Divergent Universe. Where the world setting is the same, but something in the plot is changed to alter the outcome. Those are fine. But putting the characters in High School, Star Wars, or a Bram Stoker novel is just fucking annoying.

*5. Crossovers, or at least ones with crossover pairings*
Inuyasha is not going to fall for Sakura

*6. Unrealistic romance*
Speaks for itself


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## MediaStar (Jul 22, 2007)

Katydid said:


> I've been writing fiction for a long time and there are many, many things that will make me click the back button without a second thought. Here are my top 10 cliche peeves:
> 
> *1. Rape fics*
> I'm sick of stories where a character is raped in the first chapter and then the only way that they are able to recover emotionally is to have sex with their "twoo wuv" or (worse) they end up falling for the person who raped them. Rape is not romantic. It is not warm and fuzzy. It is not an appropriate romantic motif. Period. And for some strange reason, it's usually Sasuke who is the victim, and his characterization is completely bastardized throughout the entire story.
> ...



YOU ARE THE TRUTH..."Can I get an amen!!!"


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## Trelle (Jul 22, 2007)

Steven Pinhead said:


> *1. Yuri and Yaoi that takes itself seriously*
> *2. i*c*st*
> *3. OC's*
> *4. AU fics*
> ...



Is it funny that I've read at least one decent to excellent fanfic for all of these...except for #6? 

1. There was this Shika/Kiba fic called  that just completely blindsided me in how...plausible it sounded. Maybe it's because the writer has such a good Shikamaru voice. I don't know. But for the most part, I don't like gratuitous pairing period, het or slash. 

2. 3 words, . i*c*st doesn't squick me AT ALL (anymore). I've lost that after getting into the Heroes fandom which should be renamed to i*c*st Paring Paradise. I think I've sort of just separated fiction from reality here. I just don't understand (and feel sorry) that people would pass up one of the best written Naruto stories (ever, imo) because of an i*c*st pairing. 

3. Man, OCs are fine. I don't get the hate. Isn't making an OC better than making a canon character OOC (out of character)? There are OC cliches like the girl and her friends in Narutoverse fic (I have 10,000 words of such a story in a word doc somewhere, yes I'm pathetic hee) or the longlostrelativewithsuperspecialbloodline!OC which can get ridiculous, but OCs by themselves aren't bad. It's up to the writer to fit them into the story and make them believable and memorable. 

4. Okay, the highschool!AU fics I find to be a bit repetitive at times, but it can be written well believe it or not. Despite that, I have read  which is a good highschool!AU that involves Sakura being the only girl on the football team. (Although, I'm pretty sure that the author could just replace the Naruto names for original names without the story suffering and that says a lot.)

But I've read some interesting AUs. There's one medieval times AU involving TenTen/Neji that was very interesting, and there are a couple of sci-fi au's that are very intriguing. 

5. I've never read any crossover pairing fics in Naruto yet, so I can't really suggest a good fic using that plot device. Although I've only ever read one crossover pairing ever and that was in a DBZ/Sailormoon crossover (anyone remember Boy Meets Girls...still a good read even after all these years).

I don't know, I don't go purposely looking for crossovers. I just read them if the summary strikes me a certain way.  is just well written (and considering Kilerkkii wrote it, that's a given).  is very entertaining if nothing else.  is could be canon, that's how well put together it is. 

Is this off topic? Well, I think that offering some palate cleansers is a good thing.


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## Jallen (Jul 22, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> If you describe a certain type of food, or other remotely uninteresting item that holds no real purpose towards the chain of events, then why even bother?
> 
> It's not like someones going to be mulling through the story and then say.
> 
> "OMG! (_insert unimportant word here_) I MUST GO FIND OUT WHAT THAT IS!"



Um.... *cough*  I've done that on a number of occasions. Read the name of some food or other in a Fanfic, and then wind up looking it up on Google just so I know what it is, and occasionally what it's recipe is so I can try it out (on that note I'd just like to say it's hard as heck to find glutinous rice flower around here, think I have to special order the stuff).

Other than that, I'd have to say cliche is in the eye of the beholder.  There are a number of things that I think could be considered cliche, however, most of them just weren't very well written.

Time-travel, for example, is cliche'd.  However, I've only read a few that I considered to be any good.  Partly because a number of good ones would start... but then stop 2 or 3 chapters in.  Mostly because they were poorly written with glaring grammatical errors (instant story kill for me).


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## Furious George (Jul 22, 2007)

Although Hakanami did a good job silencing this one (Thanks a bunch, Haka! ).... I somehow feel inclined to respond even further. Perhaps because I felt personally attacked by this very poorly written excuse for a rant.



Smash_2451 said:


> The aforementioned pretty much sum it up in a nutshell, though on the subject of using random Japanese words and such in a fan fiction, I'd have to disagree. If it fits within the context of the story and you can elaborate on it so the reader isn't left confused (talking about a simple word, not a sentence or phrase), then by all means, do it.



Cool. enittled to your own opinion.  



> It'd be stupid, in my opinion, to say that the Naruto characters were lounging around drinking 7-Up and Coca-Cola while listening to the Bee Gees.  Why not just say that Tsunade was bored in her office and started drinking something like sake or awamori.



Ya see, children... this is why we should "read" before we "rant". In my first post I clearly said that I don't have a problem with this cliche IF it is In-character for the Naruto character in question to use it. Tsunade drinks sake, so by all means, use the term sake instad of beer. Shikamaru plays Go, so by all means let the man play Go. 



> Small things like 'Baka' or 'Sugoi,' yes, those can take you out of it,



My point from the beginning. To me, it is sorta pointless to use the phrases in those cases. 



> but come on, if you watch a fair amount of anime, you ought to know what those mean



Not the point of my first post at all.  



> and shouldn't throw a fit just because one word took the place of the other.



Read the title of my thread again... the whole fucking point of this place is to throw a fit about cliches that you personally are tired of.



> Look at One Piece, for example.  They alternate between using the word "Captain" and "Senchou," which means captain.  I don't understand why they just don't use one over the other, but that doesn't and shouldn't detract from the program.  I'm not going to be turned off every time Usopp refers to himself as "Captain Usopp" and I go, "No, that's not right.  It should be "Senchou Usopp."  That's stupid.  The writers for the anime speak Japanese, yet we see English words pop up every now and then in ANY anime, but people still watch it.  This doesn't make the series any more enjoyable (or detestable, make your choice) than it used to be.



And how do you know I am particularly fond of anime when they do this? Do not make assumptions on what everyone likes and what everyone accepts. 



> Don't say that because they speak Japanese that EVERY SINGLE WORD has to be Japanese, and certainly don't say that because a writer speaks English (even though you have no idea what their native language is unless they've made it clear) that their entire story should be in English.



1). I will say whatever the fuck I want to say, and you will respect that right of mine.  

2). I never said that EVERY SINGLE WORD must be in english. Hell, I even said that it was the execution of implementing japanese phrases in the fanfic that got to me, not the phrases themselves. Read the post again.  



> I find it hard to trust that a fic is entirely better if it's totally in one language.



Too bad. 



> Don't even say that in anime you can make an exception when English used because that's an entirely different thing.  That's crap.  If you don't want to hear English in anime fan fiction, why would you be perfectly fine when you hear it in the actual anime when they're supposed to be speaking Japanese.



How do you KNOW what I am perfectly fine with? Seriously, get the fuck off your high horse.



> What if Gai, in the original Japanese episode, never said the words "Dynamic Entry," but said what it was in Japanese.  People probably wouldn't talk about it as much in my opinion.  Hell, in a recent episode preview, he clearly said "BIG FIRST DAY!"  Who was taken out of the experience by hearing three ENGLISH words in a program where everyone speaks Japanese?



And I am pretty sure you have taken an international consesus to conclude that NO ONE was put off by those three english words. 



> Adding it doesn't make a story authentic- it just means an author wanted to include it for the sake of including it.



And I repsect that. Like the title clearly states, its just a cliche that particularly pisses me off. 



> It's their own idea and if it was a cliche, as most of you have called it, people would complain more about it and demand that there be less Japanese words and phrases in fan fiction period.



Sigh... do I have to post the definition of the word 'cliche' again?



> But what do I know?



You DON'T know how to rant without making an ass of yourself. What you "do" know I am not sure of.  



> I don't consider myself a "talented writer" or anything like that.  If what I write is considered cliche or out of style, then it just is.  The same goes for any writer.



If you really felt as sure of yourself as this statement implies, then you wouldn't feel the need to post a weak, whiny rant against my personal opinion.  



> There's some originality out there, but that does'nt necessarily mean it's all GOOD or well written or that they'll even garner praise from the community.  Take one of the "popular" humor fics on FF.net, "The Mating Frenzy."  People praise it and love it to death, but I personally dislike it.  Not because I think it's cliche, but because it's not funny and I think it's very rushed.  Regardless, the person will continue to write in spite of what others think and may or may not take their words into consideration.  Get over this superiority complex that any fanfic cliche you can think of isn't going to stop appearing in fan fictions out there, because they aren't.  Mediocre works (such as what I just mentioned) will continue to appear and outshine the supposed good stories because readers don't know how to react when they read something that's well thought out, has an engaging storyline, strong character development, all of those key points that writers consider to make a "good" fan fiction.  Readers, the majority in my opinion, just want those short, spontaneous bursts that'll get their attention for a few seconds until they can click "Back" and find something else.



Irrelevant. Thanks for playing.



> There are tons of other cliches, but I may or may not go into those later.



Fine. Post your cliche's.... but my suggestion to you would be to leave 'ranting' alone. You are not good at it at all. Like Hakanami mentioned, this "hero complex" bullshit has no place here. If you don't like my opinions, fine... But do not come here making crazy assumptions of what I think and how my reasoning is flawed SIMPLY because my first post made you feel a little insecure. I wll attack if you do so. 

Its like I said before.... fuckin' kids these days.


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## Ippy (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm just going to go on a mini-rant, cliche or not. 

I hate how so many fanfic authors feel the need to force feed pairings down your throat.  How the fuck can you expect to have a decent story when you have multiple separate story lines going on at once?

I also hate stories where characters fall magically in love at the end of the first couple of chapters, then make googly eyes at each other for ten more.

Also, for the love of god people, why the hell don't more people utilize paragraphs?  I'm sick of clicking on a link that might have a promising story contained within, and having to just close the tab because all I saw was a big block of text.

Lastly, I hate the goddamn lame excuse of "I suck at summaries!!!", that fanfic authors put.... in their summary! If you can't even type a short description of your story to spark interest, how can you expect anyone to bother to read it?

For these reasons, and more, I've pretty much given up on fanfiction.  I had to go through dozens of shit to get to anything worthy.


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## Dogma (Jul 22, 2007)

Trelle said:


> Oh and I think that when characters exclaim "Oh Kami-sama!" it's cute.



I forgot to mention during the whole Japanese, English thing. That though I don't particularily like it in Naruto based Fanfiction (Just doesn't sit right.)

It is kind-of cute.




Jallen said:


> Um.... *cough*  I've done that on a number of occasions. Read the name of some food or other in a Fanfic, and then wind up looking it up on Google just so I know what it is, and occasionally what it's recipe is so I can try it out (on that note I'd just like to say it's hard as heck to find glutinous rice flower around here, think I have to special order the stuff).
> 
> Other than that, I'd have to say cliche is in the eye of the beholder.  There are a number of things that I think could be considered cliche, however, most of them just weren't very well written.



I guess I stand corrected, because I know if I saw the words that Kyon used in his earlier post.

*Nitouryu or Ittoryu*

I probably wouldn't care all that much, look for the context clues that give away, and if I don't find any just keep mulling through like nothing happened.

But to each their own I suppose, it's kindof cool that you do something with it.

~Cliche isn't something to be in the eye of the beholder really. It's hard to explain, but I disagree on that aspect.



Cyckness said:


> Although Hakanami did a good job silencing this one (Thanks a bunch, Haka! ).... I somehow feel inclined to respond even further. Perhaps because I felt personally attacked by this very poorly written excuse for a rant.
> 
> Its like I said before.... fuckin' kids these days.



Cyck got pretty nasty on his reply, although he should have used the "O rly?" owl just for kicks. 

I just wanted to speak my mind is all.

~On that note, I think I'm starting to understand why it's possible to misunderstand the thread.

Because when you think of cliche, you tend to think it's a bad thing. 

But in fact, cliche's aren't always bad, it's just overused. 

It's cliche that in a cartoon or movie, the (typically male) hero, saves the heroine in the end from the villain. They smile, share a moment, say something relavent to the plot and then run away to go have sex or something along those lines. 

That doesn't mean all that kind of jazz is terrible, it's just been done before... and before... and before.

The problem is, this thread is about cliches that "make you sick" so just about everytime a cliche is mentioned it's done in a negative connotation. So people tend to get their panties twisted in a double loop when something they liked is insulted.

Which is something your going to have to get over in the end.

I mean, I hate the typical NaruxHina, and definately hate Sasu x Saku and I've got no qualms about saying it.

Because no matter how many times you dress up Naruto and Hinata's relationship, your going to get the same shit you always do. 

And no matter how hard you try to make a douche like Sasuke like Sakura, it's just not going to happen, or seem reliable. Oil doesn't mix with water, so why the hell would you waste time trying.

I also hate fics where an OC of some sort shows up and magically knows everyone. 

It's pretty much the characters who would normally say:

"Hey dude, do I know you?"

Now saying:

"Oh shit!, The author just wrote that I somehow knew you. So how are you doing these days?"

Or really just any OC in general. Because quite frankly, I could care alot less about the relationship between your character and a canon character. Not that it couldn't be interesting, and that using a blank character that you created couldn't hold more possibilities then a canon character.

But simply because they all sound the same, with some kind of crazy/amazing power that makes them able to solo the Akatsuki leader, Itachi, and Jesus all at the same time. All while having the same angsty personality, that sounds shy on paper, but really isn't.

I swear if I see another comment like,

"_Really shy around others, but awesome around friends. Tends to get mad and be free spirited, and enjoys joking and other stupid crap that sounds exactly like the author, but with an ability that they obviousl don't have themselves._"

I'm going to lose it.

~But you know what, it's my opinion about those cliches, and over used fanfiction themes and ideas. I don't mind if you express your opinion about it, or try to vouch for it.

But if I decide that I'm going to be stubborn in how I think about it, just what the hell will you do then? Neg rep me, and say "Oh well your a douchebag anyways?" 

Cause if you are, that's definitely *fierce*.


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## Piekage (Jul 23, 2007)

High School AU - Kinda obvious. It's so frequent and they're all pretty much the same, a bunch of poorly written High School dramas involving Naruto characters. If your going to go this route, at least be original about it. Make it Tenjho Tenge or Real Bout High School-ish or something.

Romance in General - This hold especially true for popular pairings, because there all the same. The only NaruHina fanfic I've been able to stomach and enjoy are "Two Halves", "Team 8" and "Between Deception and Truth". I'm more of a fan of original or weird pairings, if they're well done.

Character Bashing - I don't really get it. If a certain character has certain qualities you don't like, why not try to flesh out the character, paint him/her more to your liking, or try to understand him/her. Instead making a villain out of them, or bashing their brains out.

Uber-Naruto - Probably the most frequent cliche I've encountered, most prominent in rewrite fics. Naruto is an Uber Genius, that just happens to have an equally powerful and hidden bloodline limit in addition to the already formidable Kyuubi. And Sasuke and Sakura happen to suck ass by comparison/are really jealous/want to bear his children.

Fics Summaries with 20 different pairings - Come on now. Isn't it weird that just about every main character is hooking up at around the same time? And that after Naruto defeats Orochimaru and half the village destroyed, he and Sakura/Hinata get married, even though they've been together for the equivalent of about a month and half the village is gone? Jeez.

That's all I can think of now.


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## BrojoJojo (Jul 23, 2007)

Puttng people together with someone they; Have never talked to, or seen, so far in the series. Or, If the only time theyve ever seen eachother, One of them was scared out of thier mind of them.

Im looking at YOU ItachiHinata and GaaraHinata


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## Ippy (Jul 23, 2007)

Actually, Piekage, Team 8 is the *only* fanfiction that I've been able to stomach for years.

It's extremely well done, and the "romance" is so subtle and slow moving that it's believability is leaps and bounds ahead of 1,000's other Naruto fics.

It figures that it's rarely updated..... you can't rush genius, I guess.


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## Furious George (Jul 23, 2007)

*Hakanami:* Ah,well said. Perhaps I should post a disclaimer in the first post so that people can get a better understanding of the point of this thread? Cutting down self-righteous rants is fun and all, but it might be annoying if they start coming in every other day. 

 I keep hearing about this "Team 8".  I may have to check it out. Then again, I kept hearing about The Golden Fox being the best Naruto FF ever written... and then I read it. . Not to discredit nyce (the guy is pretty cool) or his fic, but simply put... the best Naruto FF it ain't.


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## Trelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Cyckness said:


> I keep hearing about this "Team 8".  I may have to check it out. Then again, I kept hearing about The Golden Fox being the best Naruto FF ever written... and then I read it. . Not to discredit nyce (the guy is pretty cool) or his fic, but simply put... the best Naruto FF it ain't.



I agree with you on that *Cyckness*. I started reading The Golden Fox and yeah it's not the best Naruto FF by a longshot sorry. I never even made it to the current chapter of the fic. It had that uber!Naruto and imo it wasn't executed well. I've read better stories that center around a Naruto that has been estranged from Konoha. (. I am really on a roll with this reccing thing). 

Team 8, however, I have on watch. I like it, it's entertaining but if that's the only fic you've been able to tolerate *Haterade*...you are missing _SO MUCH_ that's out there. But skimming through the fic (I haven't read it in a while now), I can see why people like it. I like how it reinforces teamwork, something that few fics manage to pull off. 

Y'all need to take a look at the fanfic rec thread if you haven't because all of the fic there is worthy of at least a look over. I'm very new to Naruto fanfic and that thread help me to skip over the bad stuff and find some good ones.


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## Furious George (Jul 23, 2007)

*Trelle:* Yeah, I just started reading Team 8 a few minutes ago. I am about 2/3 of the way through the 1st chapter.. and I have to admit that it is pretty engrossing. I like it a lot. This might be the first NaruHina fic I can read without vomitting. 

But, on topic.... 

*3. Portaying characters deliberately in a negative light because of personal bias or to strengthen a conflicting pairing.*

This has been posted here many times already as "Character Bashing", but I am posting it again because it cannot be said enough. This is probably my most hated cliche because, unlike the others I have listed, there is no way this can be executed in a good way. When you bash a character in your fic for any reason, you fail immediately in my book. I think it is ignorant, childish, and overall VERY disrepectful to Kishimoto's work.

I do realize to a certain extent that it is hard NOT to bash a character you hate in a particular fic, and that it might even be that you do it on a sub-concious level... but I am talking about obvious and deliberate bashing where the writer is intentionally making a character look like an ass because he/she doesn't like them. Your own personal biases should never affect your portrayal of a character that you didn't even create.... To say that I am not a fan of Sasuke would be a gross understatement, but as much as I hate him I would never make him more of a prick then he really is. I would not over-state his cocky personality and just make believe that he has never shown care for his teammates or anyone other then himself (so many fics have done this). That would basically be slandering Kishimoto's work.. What right would I have to do such a thing?

The most common case I have seen of this has been Sakura (Sauske and Hinata are definitely close seconds). I have yet to see any Naruto character bashed to the extent that I have seen the Pinkette bashed. She is often portrayed as this silly one dimensional whore, her dislike for Naruto is grossly exaggerated (one fic actually had her charging toward him with a kunai because he failed to bring Sasuke back to Konoha. ), and has even been portrayed as an insanely jealous head-case who immediately realizes she loved Naruto the moment Hinata got him instead. It doesn't matter that all three characterizations are completey against canon... all that matters is that Sakura is an evil bitch and we just didn't relize it until the fanfic writer exposed her real personality! Because I am such a big fan of Sakura, most of the portrayals I have read of her in fics have left me weeping before my montior. 

But if there is anything worse then bashing a character in a fic because you don't like them, it would bashing a character in a fic because you feel that by doing so the development of a particular pairing you are promoting in the fic will be strengthened. I don't think there is anything that could better illustrate a lack of actual story-telling talent then this... and I have seen it a hundred times. Naruto suddenly realizes that Sakura hates him and will never acknowledge him (both proven by canon to be false), so he runs off to Hinata. Temari gets in a totally OOC argument with Shikamaru, who realizes she was a bitch and that he never loved her... so he runs off with Ino. In one ShikaTem fic I have read, Ino was portrayed as this loose slut who "gets over Sasuke" and starts trying to force Shikamaru to have sex with her. Shikamaru, who apparently forgets that he has been this girl's teammate for years and that they have been through much heartache with each other with the death of their sensei, immediately shoots her down in the harshest way possible and says he never wants to speak to her again. Ino ignores this and continues to stalk him and 'girl rape' him whenever she gets the chance. Then suddenly, the brave heroine Temari steps on the scene out of nowhere and chases Ino away. Now, I am a BIG ShikaTem fan.. but that fic made me lose a little faith in mankind.

Please authors... Just stop it.


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## Piekage (Jul 23, 2007)

Haterade said:


> Actually, Piekage, Team 8 is the *only* fanfiction that I've been able to stomach for years.
> 
> It's extremely well done, and the "romance" is so subtle and slow moving that it's believability is leaps and bounds ahead of 1,000's other Naruto fics.
> 
> It figures that it's rarely updated..... you can't rush genius, I guess.



True, he/she actually keeps the characters in character. Truly one of the best Naruto FF IMO. I especially like how Shino and Kurenei are portrayed, who hardly get any attention in fanfiction.



> In one ShikaTem fic I have read, Ino was portrayed as this loose slut who "gets over Sasuke" and starts trying to force Shikamaru to have sex with her. Shikamaru, who apparently forgets that he has been this girl's teammate for years and that they have been through much heartache with each other with the death of their sensei, immediately shoots her down in the harshest way possible and says he never wants to speak to her again. Ino ignores this and continues to stalk him and 'girl rape' him whenever she gets the chance. Then suddenly, the brave heroine Temari steps on the scene out of nowhere and chases Ino away. Now, I am a BIG ShikaTem fan.. but that fic made me lose a little faith in mankind.



That's just depressing. And they're are probably worst fics out there.

Thought of another one, Naruto/Sasuke's mysterious relative returns, usually a brother for Naruto or a cousin for Sasuke. They just happen to be Sannin level, and they've been trailing Akatsuki since before the series, despite the fact that the organization have show no signs of existing at the time.

And another, - Naruto's father is the Fourth. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think people are jumping the gun a little is all. And I especially hate the fact that he's referred to as Kazama Arashi, and that this is treated as fact, despite the fact that he is never referred to by name in the anime or the manga. Every time I see that name in a summary, I just skip it.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 23, 2007)

I've been in the fic buisness for awhile, starting with DBZ fics and recently Naruto, though for some reason I don't get alot of people reading my stuff so I tend to crash out near the final three chapters. Anyway, not really Cliches but shit that pisses me off about most Fiction:
*
1) Authors who can't write*, but decide to write garbage that is nothing more that lowercased letters jumbled together that remsemble nothing more than: (ajskhflsjkhfajsfhaasjfhasj jfhsladfhasjkl) like this: 





> Hinata was in the woods training one but she couldn't focus at all. Whenever she started to try her new jutsu she got distracted by what she had seen the previous day while training with her byakugan. The one she loved...Naruto.
> She had seen the guy she loved naked through her Byakugan yesterday and she couldn't think of anything else.
> So she stopped training and went to find Naruto. She looked all over Konoho before finally going to his
> apartment , but by this time Naruto was already in bed.
> Hinata used her Byakugan to look in his apartment and saw that he was sleeping in the nude, she snuck into his room took off her clothes and got into bed with him.



*2) People who leave reviews, like the following*


> eh story is nice, battles are good not too details to were your spending 5min reading about 3 blows but still in depth enough to paint a picture, but this isnt my thing, i hate kiba haha and i hate kiba/hinata pairings more so the mention of her an kiba made me write this an close the page  oh well bye!


 Pretty much people who write you to tell you they're not going to read your stuff because it has X and Y as a pairing. Seriously, I don't give two shits about which pairings you care for, and don't waste my time bitching to me about it. If you don't like the way I make characters interact with each other, then write your own damn fic.

*3) Anything involving Sasuke. * He's not going to come back to the village untill he kills his brother. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Even then its unsure, so anything pairing Sasuke with Mary-sue/Gary-sue is simply cornball.


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## Trelle (Jul 23, 2007)

> The most common case I have seen of this has been Sakura (Sauske and Hinata are definitely close seconds). I have yet to see any Naruto character bashed to the extent that I have seen the Pinkette bashed. She is often portrayed as this silly one dimensional whore, her dislike for Naruto is grossly exaggerated (one fic actually had her charging toward him with a kunai because he failed to bring Sasuke back to Konoha. ), and has even been portrayed as an insanely jealous head-case who immediately realizes she loved Naruto the moment Hinata got him instead. It doesn't matter that all three characterizations are completey against canon... all that matters is that Sakura is an evil bitch and we just didn't relize it until the fanfic writer exposed her real personality! Because I am such a big fan of Sakura, most of the portrayals I have read of her in fics have left me weeping before my montior.



Ah, thank you for mentioning that! Sakura gets bashed to hell and back all the time in favor of Ino/Hinata/TenTen/kunoichi-of-the-week and it's ridiculous. Although the abuse she gets from Naruto or others in the fics is equally as worse sometimes.

Sakura used to frustrate the heck out of me, but even I recognized that she wasn't some heartless bitch whose life centered around Sasuke. I think I've become a Sakura supporter in spite of the horrible bashing she gets. 

I mean how many times have you seen this?



> *Naruto gets powered up/mentored/etc.. The next day, Team 7 is assigned*
> Sakura- Oh Sasuke-kun bang me now!
> Sasuke- Hn.
> *Naruto pimpwalks onto the scene wearing all black*
> ...



Maybe I'm exaggerating a little, but seriously I see this happen all the time.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 23, 2007)

Trelle said:


> Ah, thank you for mentioning that! Sakura gets bashed to hell and back all the time in favor of Ino/Hinata/TenTen/kunoichi-of-the-week and it's ridiculous. Although the abuse she gets from Naruto or others in the fics is equally as worse sometimes.
> 
> Sakura used to frustrate the heck out of me, but even I recognized that she wasn't some heartless bitch whose life centered around Sasuke. I think I've become a Sakura supporter in spite of the horrible bashing she gets.
> 
> ...




Character bashing fics are irritating in general. Also alot of people tend to forget that the village itself is one of the most important characters of all. So many different characters get focused on that they forget the impact of minor characters


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## Kyon (Jul 23, 2007)

_Skimming through this topic, half of you don't know what a cliche is and decided to use this topic to say things that annoy you that are in no way cliches._



			
				Cyckness said:
			
		

> 3. Portaying characters deliberately in a negative light because of* personal bias* or to strengthen a conflicting pairing.



_Guilty as charged. ^^

Neji can bite me. 

It's not that I can't make his character work, it's that I dun wanna. I prefer the asshole Neji._


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## Dogma (Jul 23, 2007)

N1nj45tyl3 said:


> *3) Anything involving Sasuke. *



I so agree on this...  



Cyckness said:


> . *3. Portaying characters deliberately in a negative light because of personal bias or to strengthen a conflicting pairing.*
> 
> Please authors... Just stop it.



I was with you till this one, my friend.

I know it's sucky to do such a thing, but it's necessary most times.

The cast of Naruto is a bunch of cookie cutter characters, with a loose amount of depth (in other words they're all pretty shallow) so you can use them for many different situations.

However, due to things like fanfiction, things like "OOC" have been created, and made an essnetial factor between whether a fic sucks or not.

That being said, there's characters who can do one thing, and ones who can't do something else. So, you'll have to use the character most suiting for that circumstance whether you like it or not.

You can't expect Gaara to run over to the nearest puppy shop, and decide to bring home a pet or something like that. But Ino or Sakura would probably do it. Maybe even Naruto. 

So you use them, instead.

You can't expect Shikamaru to laugh in someones face when he defeats them, and then decide to shove his foot on them. So if you had the need to do something that drastic, then you'll need to use a character who would. Like Sasuke, or Orochimaru, or anyone like that.

~So,

As a writer, your always going to have your own script that you want to follow to a mark.

*
I want Character A, Character B, and C. To go to the store together. It's humorous and the reader has a good old laugh.*

But when it goes into fanfiction, your using already developed characters, in a  predetermined situation, some of which who you may or may not like.

So though you may have wanted to use *Shikamaru, Temari, and Kankuro.* You might have to settle for a group that would probably do sosmething like that together.

_
Shikamaru, Ino, and Sakura. 

Shikamaru would get dragged by the blonde, and Sakura and Ino are friends, so it's plausible to find some reason or another as to why she'd decide to do something like that._
_
Temari, and Shikamaru could work, as well, because he's easy to drag. But why would Kankuro be present? Is he not in Suna?

Naruto could be present, as he's in Konoha around the same time. But oh wait, you may not like Naruto at all, despite the fact that his personality fits wonderfully in the situation your trying to create._

So, as a result you end up using Naruto anyways, seeing as he's able to become useful despite the fact that you dislike him. And when you dislike the character, there's always going to be some subtle form of character bashing. 

Due to the skill of the writer, it's possible to take things to different levels of how much the character bashing is present, but regardless of this, my point remains the same.

For fanfics, there's only oh so many characters that you could slap into a situation, and make it work properly. So no matter how much you may or may not want too, you'll have to use the most suitable character or create a new one who's able to pull off that role effectively without the animosity.

~_Though creating a new character often leaves a bad taste in many readers mouth's, because the fanfiction community is alittle stuck up when it comes to that kind of thing, and could probably give less then two shits about an OC. In other words, they wouldn't read it, so the remaining choice is often utilized._~

As a writer, who's particular specialty is characterization, and perspectives. I can say without a doubt that your going to have to use a character who you just don't like, and will bash very subtly, due to personal bias.

I mean, I hate Sasuke's guts, and I hold no qualms about saying it. But in a discontinued story, I had to use him for his personality, and his ability to invoke some kind of action in Naruto. 

I didn't really like Ino that much when I first started working with her personality, but I knew she'd be the only one who could efficently work in a love triangle between Shikamaru, and Temari. So despite the fact that I make her alittle bit of an airhead at times, I used her anyways. And happened to pull it off pretty well. (Or so I've been told.)

Bottom line is, whether you like it, character bashing in fics can be annoying. But there's not a whole lot of alternatives that won't cost you both hits, and reviews. So you use the so called "bastard" character, and vent quietly through each of your penstrokes. If for nothing more then to get the story done well enough to get some publicity.

Because if no one cared about whether their story got looked at or not, we'd probably all be original story writers, anyways.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 23, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> Because if no one cared about whether their story got looked at or not, we'd probably all be original story writers, anyways.



Amen. I try to be original as possible, though I get bitched at for my habit of killing off characters at random times.


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## Trelle (Jul 23, 2007)

> The cast of Naruto is a bunch of cookie cutter characters, with a loose amount of depth (in other words they're all pretty shallow) so you can use them for many different situations.



That's where canon turns into fandom. If Kankuro doesn't have enough depth because he is not significant enough in the manga/anime to warrant it, then the author of the fanfic GIVES him depth. If they can't do this in a believable way, well, that's bad writing. If they just don't want to, that's lazy writing. 



> You can't expect Gaara to run over to the nearest puppy shop, and decide to bring home a pet or something like that. But Ino or Sakura would probably do it. Maybe even Naruto.



I think that this belief shows a lack of imagination. A good writer could have Gaara do almost anything he wants and make it not only entertaining but still in-character enough for people to buy it. Maybe one would have to dig and stretch to find believable justification but really: never say never. That severely limits creativity and isn't that why we're complaining about all of these cliches in the first place? 



> I want Character A, Character B, and C. To go to the store together. It's humorous and the reader has a good old laugh.
> 
> But when it goes into fanfiction, your using already developed characters, in a predetermined situation, some of which who you may or may not like.
> 
> So though you may have wanted to use Shikamaru, Temari, and Kankuro. You might have to settle for a group that would probably do sosmething like that together.



Wait, what? This is a bad example because not only can I see this group go to a store together, I can use a popular ShikaTema cliche to make it humorous. Two words: Overprotective brother. 

Heck I could use another cliche. Temari is a GIRL with GIRL PARTS. Imagine if she made them follow her to pick up some maxi-pads?

Also, the author isn't constrained--like Kishimoto is--to continuity. It's easy to create a random situation that has these three in the same village at the same time, and not muck with the timeline too much. If, for some reason, there's no way to fit this story in canon seamlessly, then just make it an AU and go on your merry way. 



> As a writer, who's particular specialty is characterization, and perspectives. I can say without a doubt that your going to have to use a character who you just don't like, and will bash very subtly, due to personal bias.



I don't buy that excuse. There's not liking a character and there is wanting to turn a character into a horrible caricature of their canon characterization. I find the latter to be bad writing. I think a lot of bashing happens to Sakura and Sasuke because their characters are the most developed in the Naruto series.  We see their flaws and the strengths as opposed to characters like...Shino who we barely even see and therefore get the benefit of the doubt.

Bias is hard, if not close to impossible to erase from something as personal as writing, but it's not that hard to try to appear objective. It also shouldn't be hard to come up with another catalyst to pair characters up rather than attack the competition. It's an overused tactic and it's not a very sound one imo. 



> Because if no one cared about whether their story got looked at or not, we'd probably all be original story writers, anyways.



Eh, I like writing original stuff. But I don't write to get hits and reviews. I write fanfic because I like seeing how I can muck around in the Narutoverse (or whichever series/book/show/comic/movie I'm writing for).


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 23, 2007)

Oh yes, let's not forget the all popular MY firstfanfic-fics and Mysterious stranger-fics


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## Shodai (Jul 23, 2007)

Read that chapter.

HOW THE FUCK CAN A 3 YEAR OLD KID DO THAT


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## Dogma (Jul 23, 2007)

*Longass reply.*



Trelle said:


> That's where canon turns into fandom. If Kankuro doesn't have enough depth because he is not significant enough in the manga/anime to warrant it, then the author of the fanfic GIVES him depth. If they can't do this in a believable way, well, that's bad writing. If they just don't want to, that's lazy writing.



That competely leaves out just how much time it would take to get Kankuro that depth. You can't just randomly tack on aspects to a character without it looking somewhat sloppy to someone who really knows what they're talking about it.

GIVING him the depth, and cause the OOC flag to be raised almost instantaneously. 

Of course your right, there's a way to do it, but it requires establishment, and that can or cannot take awhile to do.




> I think that this belief shows a lack of imagination.



Yes and no, there's always going to be a limit on just what you can cause a certain character to do. Or moreso, to do very easily all while capturing the readers attention.

I suppose because my goals for writing fanfiction are completely different that this would cause a rift between my opinion and your opinion on this matter. But for the most part,

_There's a way to get it done, but it requires time and alot of effort to do so. That's both time and effort that may be wasted when you gain nothing from it. I can understand if you want to get better or something like that, but if you feel it's already possible to do so in an easier and somewhat more efficent manner. Then what would be the point?_



> Wait, what? This is a bad example because not only can I see this group go to a store together, I can use a popular ShikaTema cliche to make it humorous. Two words: Overprotective brother.



It's one of those "I don't feel like typing up three pages worth of examples", examples. For one.

And two, how would you explain how Kankuro got there? Encorperate it into the very dynamics of your story, despite what could or could not be going on?

There's still a main story to this series, but there's alot of characters who aren't doing anything at that moment in time.

Temari and Shikamaru would be working together since/for the Chuunin exams. And it may just be my personal opinion, but simply saying that a Kankuro (who'd probably be busy) is just chillin around with his older sister in Konoha seems a bit farfetched.

It requires establishment was well, and a more plausible reason then "Oh well he felt like it." 

Plus, just what the hell does this have to do with the topic



> Also, the author isn't constrained--like Kishimoto is--to continuity. It's easy to create a random situation that has these three in the same village at the same time, and not muck with the timeline too much. If, for some reason, there's no way to fit this story in canon seamlessly, then just make it an AU and go on your merry way.



An AU that isn't an extreme AU is crappy in my opinion. 

Putting them in High School, is an AU. 

Changing the events of the story, because you want something done a certain way but cannot think of a way to do it easily, is not.

Also, the author themselves are somewhat constrained whether you want to admit it or not.

There's a limit to how much you can and cannot do for a story around this particular community. I'm not talking in literal of course, but the ones who had those radical and awesome ideas made a story that failed miserably.

It's not _La~La_ land, where every single idea comes off beautifully, and things are able to be changed so quickly. Your obviously a different type of writer then I am, but know this much.

Some of the cliche's around here, aren't because the author likes the idea. They did what they had to do, to get what they really wanted.



> I don't buy that excuse. There's not liking a character and there is wanting to turn a character into a horrible caricature of their canon characterization.



I was speaking on behalf of those who aren't really that good at covering it up, but I will say this much.

Do you think you, yourself can write an entire project using a character that you absolutely hate, while remaining objective the comlete duration of the project?

I know I couldn't do a long project about Sasuke, because I hate him. I'm confident in my ability to do a pretty good job to the normal Sasuke fan, but I'm sure a tard or two could sense the areas that I do or do not like about him. Assuming they're both not idiots.

You'll omit using a portion of the character that you don't like, because you simply don't like them. Most times, this translates into bashing in some peculiar shape or form.

I'm not trying to say that deliberate character bashing isn't wrong, but I still have come to realize, that the author will bash the character they dislike in a subtle way anyway.

This really only applies to fics that have alot of characters, because you don't get as much time to work on a certain character as you want too. So when it's all said and done, wrapped up and ready to be put on FF.net, or in a thread. There will be a trace of something, that only a diehard tard could find. 



> Eh, I like writing original stuff. But I don't write to get hits and reviews. I write fanfic because I like seeing how I can muck around in the Narutoverse (or whichever series/book/show/comic/movie I'm writing for).



Well, your different it seems. I had a feeling someone would say something along those lines, but I didn't think it'd be you.

When it all boils down too it, I think all writers secretly want to be original writers. Want to have their work examined, and revered. I mean, ask alot of people what they'd rather be known for.

Writing an awesome story, or writing an awesome fanfiction.

I'm confident that most people will say story, because it's entirely their creation, and not an influenced creation within a border.

I for one, critque (Don't really write anymore.) Fanfics, so I can get better at my own stories. Because I see no sense of gain in being able to use characters that have already been given to me, or set up. Of course, I'm a fan of Shikamaru, and all the stuff that goes with him. But my goal is to get better at what I've really done.

But no one really gives a crap about what you have to say through your works. Naturally you'll find a few people to read it, but it's not a given whether they'll finish it or not.

People like fanfics, because they get to see more things of what they like or want to see. 



> I like seeing Shikamaru and Temari together, and I didn't see too much of it in the manga. So to see if I can see more Shikamaru and Temari together, I'm going to read this story called "Running Late." (Shameless example )



People write fanfics, because either they want to see what would happen if this or that happened, and want some feed back.

_Or if they want people to see what they have to say._

There's nothing wrong with the reason that you write fanfics for, and I highly encourage you to keep doing it that way.

But the fanfiction community as a whole is pretty retarded, excluding a few awesome members like Kyon or Cyckness and the like. They want to see the same crap over and over again, and have it crammed so far down their throats that they immediately digest it and want it some more.

Thusly why this thread exists.

Aspiring writers make use of this, and simply give the people "what they want." Naru/Hina, Sasu/Saku, Naru/Saku, MSN chats, High School fics, and Naruto as the Hokage. The surplus of these stories probably has something to do with the fact that people will read it, if it's set up like this.

~Maybe I'm just cynical, but I doubt there'd be half as many stories of the exact same thing if all people wanted to do was "Tell they're story their own way."

There's the one or two people who may use this thread to try and stay away from what has or has not been done, or what should be done. But they're only going to use that to get more reviews anyways.

So in the end,

What have I gone over? I honestly forgot the original purpose of this reply.

But I do know, that people only post there work in a place where it can be seen, because they *want* it to be seen. People use cliches over and over again, because they *worked*. The best fanfictions ever written, are probably ones that none of us have ever seen, because they've been written by writers who don't want to waste time by posting it up, and are confident in making a story just for themselves.

The rest of the community, probably posts, because they want to get a sense of accomplishment for their work. And feel proud that they themselves were the owners of that particular body of fiction. It's human nature, and it's something I for one believe.

Say what you want too say, but I for one think that there's not a huge sense of accomplishment in using characters that have been given to me. And would rather create my own cast, that I can do whatever the hell I want with. 

And I'm sure if there was a surefire way to get your own original works read and looked at all the time, then this whole fanfiction section would look like a ghost town.

~Edit: Cyph3r: It's too long, so I didn't read that chapter. I forgot to mention early on, that I don't usually read really long things due to extreme laziness.

You mind telling me, what it was?


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## Furious George (Jul 23, 2007)

*Kyon:* LOL. To be honest, the Neji bashing was the only thing that really put me off about your latest fic.... But at least your honest about it! 

*Hakanami:* GASP! I can't believe you disagree with me about something! And just when I was about to make you my official agree... person. 

Okay... from what I can gather, your statement was generally about being constrained by circumstance to use a character you don't like, which in turn, causes an automatic bashing reaction. Well, I don't necessarily agree with that, but that wasn't really my gripe anyway. What I was mainly referring to was this: 

_Sakura is such a bitch. She doesn't deserve to be with Naruto. I mean, I know she is being nice to him now, but she still doesn't deserve him. All she cares about is Sasuke...  I want Sakura to charge at Naruto with a kunai because she doesn't like him and only notices Sasuke! She would SO do something like that! That will make Naruto stop trying to date her. She's a bitch... she's a bitch in the manga, so I am going to make her a REAL bitch with this scene! I want everyone to know Sakura is a bitch!!!_

I was talking about deliberate, blantant, full-blown character bashing that comes forth from the mentally challenged thoughts of anti-Naruto/Sasuke/Sakura/Hinatatards for the sheer sake of bashing. You don't seem to fit under this category at all. 

But, to tackle the arguments you did present.... well, Trelle pretty much gave a good argument for me. Just about everything he/she told you, I would have told you. Like I mentioned in the post in question, I realize it is VERY hard to not bash characters you don't like in your wriiting... But I believe it is very possible to write a Naruto fanfic where no personal bias is DETECTED (it may be there, but not to the extent that it leaves a bad taste in the reader's mouth.) 

Its all really a matter of keeping a check on your own characterizations... if I honestly feel that my own negative impressions on a character is wiriting a particular scene for me, and that those negative impressions are not based off of canon to a certain extent, then chances are I'll change my mind about the scene altogether and fashion it in a way that is more true to Kishimoto's characterization. One of the most important (and most challenging) aspects of fanfiction is being able to take liberties with your characterizations and to make them your own WITHOUT compromising or going beyond the bounds that are clearly set by canon. This is what makes a Naruto fanfic authentic IMO, not constantly sputtering off japanese phrases (yeah, that was a reference to the earlier arguments!). If a person can do this to the best of their own abilities, then more then likely a good fanfic will come out of it... and no matter how beautifully detailed and well-written a fic is, I feel that if I see way too much of their own characterizations (i.e. personal bias) and not enough of Kishimoto's, they ultimately missed the mark. And to be honest, because the Naruto characters by your own admission are for the most part cookie-cutters, it should make it all the more easy to take liberties with their characterization without contradicting what is established with bias. We have lots of room to play with.

Case and point, I don't think there is ever a moment when portraying characters in a negative light via personal bias is necessary. Much like you, Hakanami, the #1 compliment I receive about my fics are my characterizations of the Narutoverse's shinobi (that, and detail), and I believe that my characterizations are praised because I make it my business to make those characters as bias-free as possible. If a reader detects a writer's characterizations for what they really are (character bashing), it will always be seen as a flaw no matter how good the fic is. The best thing to do is follow canon to the best of your ability, take the liberties that canon grants you, and if you feel a situation in your fic does call for a little character bashing (and I never think this is the case), then chances are the scene isn't necessary anyway.

Also, as much as I love reviews and hits... if I have to compromise Kishimoto's work to recieve them, then I am better off without them. I don't need tainted reviews... I would feel dirty.

EDIT: I see you responded to Trelle's post, and in turn probably responded to this post as well (since we are on the same wavelength when it comes to this). I guess I'll have to read your reply to Trelle and perhaps answer it if he isn't around to do so!


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## Dogma (Jul 23, 2007)

I see we're all on pretty much the same page here, that deliberate character bashing tends to make a fic suffer.

Now that I take a better look at my previous (and somewhat mindless rant) I can sum it up in a few simple sentences (for once, )

Deliberately bashing a character, is wrong. But sometimes you'll have to use a character you'd rather not prefer too, but to make the story work to the best it could it's mandated.

Your always going to emulate a character to how you see them, whether it be conciously, or subconciously. That's just simple psychology. And though it may not always be a very noticeable amount of bashing , I'm saying that it's still going to be there. Whether you like it or not.


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## Furious George (Jul 23, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> I see we're all on pretty much the same page here, that deliberate character bashing tends to make a fic suffer.
> 
> Now that I take a better look at my previous (and somewhat mindless rant) I can sum it up in a few simple sentences (for once, )
> 
> ...



Hmm... I say we are pretty much in agreement then. I guess its a good thing that I generally like all the characters in this series (apart from Sasuke, and even he I am beginning to hate less. And then there's Sai.... *squirms*) so I don't really have to worry about subconsciously bashing anyone.


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## Trelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> That competely leaves out just how much time it would take to get Kankuro that depth. You can't just randomly tack on aspects to a character without it looking somewhat sloppy to someone who really knows what they're talking about it.
> 
> GIVING him the depth, and cause the OOC flag to be raised almost instantaneously.
> 
> Of course your right, there's a way to do it, but it requires establishment, and that can or cannot take awhile to do.



Isn't that time worth spent if that is what your story calls for? There are plenty of fics about obscure characters out there that are very well written. Yuugao got 5 minutes in one episode, yet there are people writing fics about her. Tenten barely ever gets screentime and she has no backstory to speak of yet, there are plenty of Tenten fics in fandom. 

So, the fact that it may take longer to establish and buildup character isn't stopping people from investing their time. 



> Yes and no, there's always going to be a limit on just what you can cause a certain character to do. Or moreso, to do very easily all while capturing the readers attention.
> 
> I suppose because my goals for writing fanfiction are completely different that this would cause a rift between my opinion and your opinion on this matter. But for the most part,
> 
> _There's a way to get it done, but it requires time and alot of effort to do so. That's both time and effort that may be wasted when you gain nothing from it. I can understand if you want to get better or something like that, but if you feel it's already possible to do so in an easier and somewhat more efficent manner. Then what would be the point?_



Gain nothing? How about a fully-fleshed character to work with? 



> And two, how would you explain how Kankuro got there? Encorperate it into the very dynamics of your story, despite what could or could not be going on?
> 
> There's still a main story to this series, but there's alot of characters who aren't doing anything at that moment in time.



Why are you saying "at that moment in time" as if there's only one time period that an author can write in? Heck, we have a 3 year time gap where a lot can happen. And once again we can go AU. 



> An AU that isn't an extreme AU is crappy in my opinion.
> 
> Putting them in High School, is an AU.
> 
> Changing the events of the story, because you want something done a certain way but cannot think of a way to do it easily, is not.



A lot of Akatsuki fic takes place in some weird time vacuum where canon continuity is basically irrelevant. I don't think people are complaining much. 

In the case of oneshots, who cares? In the case of epic long fics, why not? There are a lot of "What if" fic out there. There are plenty of fics that change little pieces canon to provoke an emotional response. Team 8 is basically what happens when one event is changed (Naruto's placement in Team 7)



> Also, the author themselves are somewhat constrained whether you want to admit it or not.
> 
> There's a limit to how much you can and cannot do for a story around this particular community.



Okay, I understand this. The Naruto world has certain rules and that you can't just go breaking them unless you're writing crack fic. However, there is still _a lot_ of room to write around in. Unless it's the author's goal to stick to canon as close as possible, they shouldn't feel chained to it. 



> Your obviously a different type of writer then I am, but know this much.



Honestly, I know about catering to an audience. I won't write a NaruHina story and call it NaruSaku for instance. However, writing to give other people enjoyment doesn't mean authors can't take risks. The reason why this thread exists is a lot of people are playing it safe, refusing to take risks and that translates into stale stories that aren't enjoyable. 

Maybe it's just me, but I would think it a waste of my time to write a story that's the same as 923423 other stories when I could just read those stories and be satisfied.



> Some of the cliche's around here, aren't because the author likes the idea. They did what they had to do, to get what they really wanted.



Okay sure, it's really easy to write Sakura as unsympathetic as possible so that Naruto's attention could divert to TenTen (or whoever), but is that good writing? Heck no. 

It's easy to write an uber!Naruto because hello we aren't getting any older and Naruto needs to get his ass in that Hokage seat pronto, but when that comes at the cost of his character? Bad writing. 



> Do you think you, yourself can write an entire project using a character that you absolutely hate, while remaining objective the comlete duration of the project?



Well, I don't like Sasuke and I don't usually get inspired to write about him so no I wouldn't. However, if Sasuke has to be there...he has to be there. It'll be hard but I think I could manage it without turning Sasuke into something he's not. 



> You'll omit using a portion of the character that you don't like, because you simply don't like them. Most times, this translates into bashing in some peculiar shape or form.



I wouldn't ignore the good qualities of a character because I don't like the character. Sasuke was considered a good student. He's called a genius. I'm not going to make him a dumbass because I hate him. I wouldn't also make Naruto way smarter than him to show him up. You get what I mean? 



> Well, your different it seems. I had a feeling someone would say something along those lines, but I didn't think it'd be you.
> 
> When it all boils down too it, I think all writers secretly want to be original writers. Want to have their work examined, and revered. I mean, ask alot of people what they'd rather be known for.
> 
> ...



There are various reasons for writing fic out there and for a lot of these reasons, reader recognition is a bonus incentive. I'm not going to lie, I wouldn't mind my fic having 4000 reviews. I'd probably be more inspired to write if I knew people were waiting for my writing. However, even if it wasn't that popular, I'd still write just to see where I could go with it. 

Which is probably why I have the most ludicrous fanfic ideas on my harddrive never to be posted, hee. 



> But I do know, that people only post there work in a place where it can be seen, because they *want* it to be seen. People use cliches over and over again, because they *worked*.



How many times have I said the same thing in this thread? I agree with this. I will go even further. Cliches are not bad, but if one can't bring something fresh to them...then once again what's the point of writing?


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## Dogma (Jul 23, 2007)

Well, I'm not really sure what to respond too, and taking a good look at it, is nice and all but in the end, It was about as fruitful as a dog chasing it's tail.

So in the end:



> People bash characters subconciously, but doing it outwardly is wrong.
> 
> Writers write for alot of different reasons, but it's still human nature to want it too be read. Some will make more of a sacrifice then others.
> 
> ...


I think that's about everything, lol. 

~I wonder why no one ever mentioned the Bleach crossovers. They were pretty popular for awhile, before disappearing.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 23, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> ~I wonder why no one ever mentioned the Bleach crossovers. They were pretty popular for awhile, before disappearing.



I'm actually amazed there hasn't been a Tenchu or Street Fighter Xover. OR if there has been, I missed it, probably thankfully...


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## KorinaCaffeine (Jul 24, 2007)

I've been around fanfiction for a while, and I've had just about enough badfic to last me a lifetime.

*Bad Spelling - there's really no excuse for this. I can understand it with words that the spellcheck on MSWord/WordPerfect/an online spellcheck might skip over, such as "to" instead of "too" on accident or something, but come on. Misspelling words blatantly is just annoying.

*Bad Grammar - I know that not everyone is a grammar fiend, but the basics should be recognized and followed. Apostrophes for ownership, dialogue inside quotes, etcetera.

*Bad Characterization - I really, really like crack pairings and all of that and I believe that any pairing can work, but there are certain things that a character just would and wouldn't do. It's your job as a fanfiction author to get into your character's personality. How would s/he react in this situation? How about to this? And what about this? Itachi wouldn't immediately fall in love with Hinata; it would take time and the right sort of situation.

*Pairing up EVERYONE - If I find a fic that is labeled "Suigetsu x Karin," then it damn well better be SuiKa. I don't mind if there's a few other side things--SasuSaku, NaruHina, whatever--but when you pair up EVERYONE, it starts getting annoying. Besides, I don't like some pairings. If I read a DeiSaku and I see HidanTema pop up all of a sudden and have it's own little sub-story, I'm probably just going to either stop reading or skip over that part.

*Really Bad Lemons - I know that it takes a certain level of skill to write enjoyable, believable smut, but please, _for God's sake,_ a fourteen-inch penis would be _painful_ for any eighteen-year-old virgin. 

*A Summary or Chapter Title Starting with "In Which..." - I've seen this way too many times. It's starting to get annoying.

Also, a discrepancy: Are unconventional pairings really cliche? A cliche is an idea that has been used over and over again to the point where it's not original any more. So crack pairings being cliche is a bit of an oxymoron, isn't it? Maybe a crack pairing like ItaSaku because we've seen it so many times and it's so abundant, but something like...oh, say, Juugo/Sakura would be the complete _opposite._ In fact, one would think that it's a refreshing break from the cliches.

Besides, isn't that the point of fanfiction? Write your favorite characters in situations that didn't happen in canon? Write about the aftermath, write about what happened beforehand, hell, write about what happened in between scenes. Anything could have happened because we don't _know_ what happened. For all we know, Kishi could be making up this elaborate invisi-plot where Zetsu secretly falls in love with Ino and they proceed to make blond, gold-eyed babies with really great figures and flytraps coming off their shoulders.

And really, that's the beauty of it. It's using the imagination of Kishi and your _own._ It's the unrecognized using the work of a distinguished, professional artist and crafting something that could very well be ten times better. It's all about how you perceive it; it's how you decide to mold it. If you want to make Zabuza fall in love with Kankurou and can pull it off, more power to you. If you want Yamato to suddenly develop an unhealthy love/obsession toward Sakura, go for it! And if you can make me believe it as a possibility and make me cry or laugh or smile in the process, then you've got one hell of a talent, and I applaud you for it.

...Well, everyone has their respective opinions, I guess.


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## Steven Pinhead (Jul 25, 2007)

Trelle said:


> Is it funny that I've read at least one decent to excellent fanfic for all of these...except for #6?
> 
> 1. There was this Shika/Kiba fic called  that just completely blindsided me in how...plausible it sounded. Maybe it's because the writer has such a good Shikamaru voice. I don't know. But for the most part, I don't like gratuitous pairing period, het or slash.
> 
> ...



You surprise me sir. All of those fics are rather good.


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## spudrow2005 (Jul 25, 2007)

Cyckness said:


> *Trelle:* Yeah, I just started reading Team 8 a few minutes ago. I am about 2/3 of the way through the 1st chapter.. and I have to admit that it is pretty engrossing. I like it a lot. This might be the first NaruHina fic I can read without vomitting.
> 
> But, on topic....
> 
> ...


lol i know what u mean i just read a shikatem fic where he rapes her the entire fic. that has got to be one of the worst OOC moments ive ever read next to one where naruto develops sasuke's moody part 1 attitude


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 25, 2007)

There's not a whole lot of people who can do Shikamaru right. I like to portray him as a pot-head, that way I can get the right amount of laziness in him.


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## _allismine_ (Jul 25, 2007)

Bad OCs are probably the thing I hate the most, even moreso than the grammar, OOCness, and Japanese. A fic could be one of the most well-written fics ever, but that single character could just ruin the whole thing.

It makes the rest of us OC writers look bad.


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## Furious George (Jul 25, 2007)

N1nj45tyl3 said:


> There's not a whole lot of people who can do Shikamaru right.



I agee with this completely... I actually think both Temari and Shikamaru's characters are misunderstood in most ShikaTem fics I have read (even the good ones). But its understandable. Both of them are actually pretty complex for side-characters, and their personalities are multi-dimenesional.... that's why I love the pairing so much! 

.............>_>.......................<_<......................

*feels a rant coming on*

Here's how I see it based on what the manga has shown us. 

*Shikamaru is: *

- Lazy (and the conclusion of the Hidan/Kakuzu arc sort of hints that he would try to be less lazy from then on.)

- Sexist beyond all reason 

- Intelligent 

*Temari is:*

- Stern and authortive 

- Cool, calm, and collected (she never shows too much emotions. Consider how well she kept her composure when she heard the news about Gaara and Kankurou during the Rescue Gaara arc.)

- Surprisingly compassionate (there's that infamous hospital scene, but there was also a time when she expressed a dislike for war and concern for innocent people in a flashback during part 1. This immediately destroys the possibility of her being the blood-thristy maniac that some fic writers portray her as.)

- Stategically-minded (like Shika)

Its... kinda challenging to put all those qualities into a fic without one of the qualities being understated, overstated, or just left out completely. I am guilty of doing this myself.  

Here's what I mean.... a typical scene in a ShikaTem fic will feature them both grown up and married. Temari will ask Shikamaru to wash the dishes, Shikamaru will say it is troublesome. At this point, Temari will start screaming like a banshee for Shikamaru to wash the dishes, and likely hit him over the head with a pot or something. Shikamaru will then fearfully agree and wash the dishes while trembling. 

The scene is funny, and it is *sorta* in-character, but its not really ShikaTem. A die-hard fan of Temari and Shikamaru would have no mercy on such a scene. 

1). Temari is not Sakura, and has never shown to be prone to whomp people over the head for miniscule things. She also is not Ino, and has never given us a reason to assume that she is prone to screaming at anyone. The characterzation falls in line with her being stern and authoritave, but it completely disregards the fact that she is also a very calm and cool person. She is not constantly flying off the handle, and she is not a loudmouth.

2). While the characterization of Shikamaru is true in regards to him being too lazy to wash the dishes, it kinda disregards the fact that Shikamaru is a male chauvanist. There is no way he would completely allow Temari to dominate every aspect of their lives without putting up a fight and arguing about a man and woman's place in a relationship. I agree that Temari would ultimately 'run things' if they were dating, but fic writers often make the Nara boy out to be way more submissive then what is typical of him. "Being whipped" completely conflicts with his religious beliefs! He would put up a fight with Temari in such a case... he would lose ( ), but he would at least fight.

(Ugh. Sorry about this mini-essay... but talking too much about Shikamaru or Temari brings that out of me. Their awesomess overtakes me. )


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## Kyon (Jul 25, 2007)

N1nj45tyl3 said:


> There's not a whole lot of people who can do Shikamaru right. I like to portray him as a pot-head, that way I can get the right amount of laziness in him.



_Amen! 

I'm portraying him as a pothead in my AU highschool fic (yeah, I'm writing one, and I'll probably include every cliche in here *just* to piss you guys off) and so far it's making him surprisingly in character. _


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 25, 2007)

Cyckness said:


> Here's what I mean.... a typical scene in a ShikaTem fic will feature them both grown up and married. Temari will ask Shikamaru to wash the dishes, Shikamaru will say it is troublesome. At this point, Temari will start screaming like a banshee for Shikamaru to wash the dishes, and likely hit him over the head with a pot or something. Shikamaru will then fearfully agree and wash the dishes while trembling.



I honestly believe a true Shika/Tem scene would work out something like this:



> "The clouds today, sure are beautiful." Shikamaru sighed happily as he blew smoke from his cigarette out his nose. He'd been laying in the grass behind his house for the better half of the day, losing himself in one of his top two favorite hobbies.
> 
> "Hey," The face of his wife, Temari suddenly appeared blocking his view of the clouds. Slightly irritated, Shikamaru turned his head to avoid looking her in the eye. "You've been lying there all day, why don't you stop being lazy for a minute and help me with the chores around the house?"
> 
> ...


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## Furious George (Jul 25, 2007)

N1nj45tyl3 said:


> I honestly believe a true Shika/Tem scene would work out something like this:




Yeah... I would pretty much say that was ShikaTem dead on. Nice example!


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 25, 2007)

Cyckness said:


> Yeah... I would pretty much say that was ShikaTem dead on. Nice example!



I try


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 25, 2007)

Kyon said:


> _Amen!
> 
> I'm portraying him as a pothead in my AU highschool fic (yeah, I'm writing one, and I'll probably include every cliche in here *just* to piss you guys off) and so far it's making him surprisingly in character. _



See told you. Works out real well.


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## xoxDAGGERxox (Jul 25, 2007)

Yeah, basically what everyone else is saying...but when they make Sakura a Mary Sue just because she's their favorite character. I read a story once where she was like prancing around in a towel and all the guys were staring at her hoping it would fall off..and they all ended up making out with her or something. >>;;

It's not just Sakura, though...when people do that to any character, it's annoying.


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## hcheng02 (Jul 26, 2007)

Haterade said:


> Actually, Piekage, Team 8 is the *only* fanfiction that I've been able to stomach for years.
> 
> It's extremely well done, and the "romance" is so subtle and slow moving that it's believability is leaps and bounds ahead of 1,000's other Naruto fics.
> 
> It figures that it's rarely updated..... you can't rush genius, I guess.



I have just read this fanfiction, and I must admit it is very well written. I like how she subtly changes Naruto's character, making him more thoughful and quiet, by giving him different experiences. Its OOC but in a way its not. Do you have any idea how long the author usually takes to make new chapters?


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 26, 2007)

I honestly wish to see someone write a good Shino fic. He's probably the most under used character there, next to Shizune.


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## MediaStar (Jul 26, 2007)

> *Really Bad Lemons - I know that it takes a certain level of skill to write enjoyable, believable smut, but please, _for God's sake,_ a fourteen-inch penis would be _painful_ for any eighteen-year-old virgin.



LMFAO.

_for God's sake,_ a fourteen-inch penis would be _painful_ for any virgin or non-virgin. This has got to be the funniest line I have seen yet of the forum. I commend you hun...lmao...in all honesty not to many men in this world are walking around with a freakishly large penis like that lol*well to my knowledge. That one was a good one added to the list.​


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 26, 2007)

MediaStar said:


> LMFAO.
> 
> _for God's sake,_ a fourteen-inch penis would be _painful_ for any virgin or non-virgin. This has got to be the funniest line I have seen yet of the forum. I commend you hun...lmao...in all honesty not to many men in this world are walking around with a freakishly large penis like that lol*well to my knowledge. That one was a good one added to the list.​



yeah you know what, lemons in general piss me off. A lot of them are written by prepubescent horn dogs who don't understand that a crappy story with lemony parts in it...is still a crappy story. I choose to stay away from writing lemons cause I'm really bad with sex scenes. >.> wrote a girl on girl scene once, turned out pretty horrible.


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## Supa Swag (Jul 26, 2007)

I've got a few....:

*4th Hokage=Arashi Kazama*

Almost every fic I've read that has the 4th in it, they call him Arashi. WHERE THE FUCK DID THIS NAME COME FROM????? I'm seriously hoping at this point that Kishimoto makes the 4th's name something stupid like Tommy Bob.

*Naruto suddenly learns the 4th is father*

I can take the 4th being Naruto's father if almost no one knew. What I can't stand is when Naruto turns 16+ and all of a sudden Jiraiya and/or Tsunade decide to tell him of his father, Arashi Kazama, or the 4th left a letter for Naruto.

Okay, WTF?! I can see keeping it a secret from other villages, but shouldn't the fucking kid know he had a father?! 

*Sakura's conversations with Inner Sakura*

Basically, Sakura conversing with her inner self. Pardon my french, but exactly how many fucking times has Sakura EVER talked with her inner self???

*Naruto casually conversing with Kyuubi*

By this I mean shit like Naruto eating ramen with his friends and suddenly Kyuubi starts talking to him about some random shit. Naruto gets angry and winds up yelling with everyone wondering WTF is wrong with him.

It's basically the same thing with Inner Sakura. Exactly how many times have we seen Naruto talk with Kyuubi without him going into his own consciousness?

*Naruto's banishment/runs away from Konoha*

This is probably the worst offender of them all. Nearly every single one of them start off like this: 

Naruto saves Sasuke from going to Orochimaru. Naruto is happy and brings him to the village. Suddenly, Sakura sees the 2 and beats the shit out of Naruto for harming "her" Sasuke-kun and calls him monster/demon and hopes he rots. The villagers see this and join Sakura in beating the shit out of him all the while Naruto cries like a bitch. If Naruto hasn't given into Kyuubi by now and ran away, the council orders his banishment for harming Sasuke. Naruto comes back some years later all strong and pimp like. He beats all the jounins single handily  and the women throw their panties at him. Meanwhile Sakura, who has been mentally and physically abused from all of the Genin 12, Kakashi and the Hokage, sees Naruto and realizes after everyone hates her guts that she was wrong for treating Naruto that way and apologizes. Naruto after some time forgives sakura and fucks her after fucking all the other girls in the series.

Or they start like this:

Naruto and tea bring back Sasuke to Konoha. He is happy now that he has gotten his friend back and with Sakura, his girlfriend of X amount of time, the team will be complete. Suddenly, he sees Sakura in the hospital with Sasuke and their making out while she's saying she loves him. Naruto is heartbroken. Then Tsunade names Sasuke as the next hokage, for some strange reason. Naruto goes insane and runs away, but not before Hinata says that she loves Naruto and all that crap. His return is pretty much the same as the banishment part.

The entire premise and the actions of certain characters (IE Sakura, the council, the villagers) make this so fucking horrible it's actually hilarious.   First of all, why the hell would Sakura even berate Naruto for getting Sasuke back, regardless of the condition he's in? It goes completely against all the development of Sakura seeing Naruto as a precious friend, especially with the revelation she makes at the "Promise of a Lifetime". Second, why would the council get rid of their precious weapon, especially when said weapon brought back the Uchiha? Third, why would the villagers beat on Naruto, when the worst they've done is ignore the kid. It really looks retarded when you take into account that the villagers were applauding Naruto's victory over Neji, showing that they do recognize him.

It's shit like this that really makes me wonder why I even bother to read fanfiction...well, Naruto fanfiction anyway.


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## Furious George (Jul 26, 2007)

Laz-E-Boy said:


> *Naruto's banishment/runs away from Konoha*
> 
> This is probably the worst offender of them all. Nearly every single one of them start off like this:
> 
> ...



YES! YES! This man speaks the truth! The sad thing is that some of the Naruto fanfiction that gets the most acclaim are fics that have this cliche in them! And this also ties in with the undue Sakura bashing.... why do people portay her so poorly? Why is she so specifically hated? Is it because a vast majority of the fanfic community who bash Sakura are ugly, anti-social women who take out their frustrations on the attracitve kunoichi???? I think so.


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## Dogma (Jul 26, 2007)

Cyckness said:


> YES! YES! This man speaks the truth! The sad thing is that some of the Naruto fanfiction that gets the most acclaim are fics that have this cliche in them! And this also ties in with the undue Sakura bashing.... why do people portay her so poorly? Why is she so specifically hated? Is it because a vast majority of the fanfic community who bash Sakura are ugly, anti-social women who take out their frustrations on the attracitve kunoichi???? I think so.



Because alot of people like Naruto, and Sasuke. 

She dissed Naruto in Part 1, by not wanting to look at him then anything more then a pain (at least for awhile.)

But she also annoyed Sasuke to the point where she herself looked nothing more then to be a nuisance.

Sakura was also a pretty worthless member of the team for awhile too, so that didn't do her any favors either.

Three strikes, that kicked her out of the good list for alot of people. The bashing just happens to be a result of people who don't accept her vast change and growth. 

And instead grumble a bit, call her a bitch, and call it a day.


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## Zethios (Jul 26, 2007)

Godmode

So we're steamin along, fairly good fic, drinkin a can a sprite, when *SUDDENLY*

Pretty much the whole _romantic dynamic_ is killed between a Dude and Lady.

Why is that Zeth?  

Well you see, this author has insulted my intelligence by telling and not showing to and extreme extent. 

Holy Hairspray Zeth! How could cuch a thing occur!?:amazed 

Well mein fine fellow reader of fanfiction, This person has installed the mostly lowly of all cheats...

Godmode​
Godmode?   Sweet Jesus Zeth I want some pot too! 

Well kid, you can't. I don't like sharing and I'm not stoned.

The Technical literacy term would be Third Person Omnisient. Now where this is fairly obvious are those little 5k word Naru/Hina fics where the author is too lazy to bring the JUSTICE needed to my favorite pairing.

There aslo happens to be another defintion:

INVINCIBLE NARUTO OWNS YOU, YOUR MOTHER, AND YOUR GODAMN DOG TOO! >.<

Both are good definitions since in the first you liek have teh power 2 see everything.

The second is just the lamest cheat ever.

_Chya Bra. Got the idea of Godmode from a paradoy._


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 26, 2007)

Laz-E-Boy said:


> I've got a few....:
> 
> *4th Hokage=Arashi Kazama*



Really Where the hell did this name originate!? I'm gonna puke if Kishi actually reads these fics and names the 4th this. 



> *Naruto suddenly learns the 4th is father*



 I wanna see one where he learns Gai is his father. That be worth reading.


> *Sakura's conversations with Inner Sakura*
> 
> *Naruto casually conversing with Kyuubi*



only time Ineer Sakura should show up is when she wants to say "SHANNARO!" and Kyubi doesn't care much for Naruto unless he's asking for power. So yeah Way OOC right there.



> *Naruto's banishment/runs away from Konoha*
> 
> 
> This is probably the worst offender of them all. Nearly every single one of them start off like this:
> ...



Again, thaty's why I despise anything involving Sasuke, or even bringing him back to the village. Alot of people tend to forget that HE LEFT ON HIS OWN! The Sound Four didn't kidnap him or anything. Usually when someone decides to leave a place anything short of a good beating won't stop them. Point being? Even after returning Sasuke back to the village, he wouldn't stay, unless Naruto beat some amnesia into him and he forgets about Itachi. Also, Sakura would've been WAY too happy to care what condition Sasuke would be returned in. But oh well, who am I to judge the crap people read.

Regarding NAruto and his uber-ness, I try not to let him fight in any of my fics, mainly because I'm afraid he'll get stuck in nine-tails god like form and kill everything.


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## Tyrannos (Jul 27, 2007)

Yondaime's name:  Arashi Kazama (or Uzumaki), originated from two sources.

1)  From people who claimed to read the Frog Scroll (in which professionals still cannot read). 

2)  South Koreans claimed Kishimoto himself admited the Yondaime's name in an interview.  But later we learned that Kishimoto never went to South Korea.

Here is a website that talks about the name:





Anyhow, you guys talking about alot of this stuff makes me nervous that I'm writing overused material.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 27, 2007)

Tyrannos said:


> Yondaime's name:  Arashi Kazama (or Uzumaki), originated from two sources.
> 
> 1)  From people who claimed to read the Frog Scroll (in which professionals still cannot read).
> 
> ...



Until He's given a name in either the manga, Shonen Jump or even the anime, I'm still gonna claim bullshit on that name


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## Dogma (Jul 27, 2007)

Tyrannos said:


> Anyhow, you guys talking about alot of this stuff makes me nervous that I'm writing overused material.



If you've done a good enough job, that no one bitches at you for it. Then there's no need to be nervous.

Virtually every idea has been done at least once, the problem is the more popular ideas just get used poorly.


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## Undaunted (Jul 27, 2007)

Did you know that there are many, many, cliche' Naruto FanFiction... stories. Such as the classic, Naruto is all alone in the world so he must travel back in time to save Konoha, Time-Travel Fic. Or, the Naruto and Hinata go on a mission and Naruto suddenly realizes his own feelings (hidden from himself mind you) and Hinata's hard to spot attraction to him (sarcasm), NaruHina Fic. 

Naruto joins Akatsuki because Sakura gives him a bitch slap to the face for being a jerk and hurting 'her' Sasuke-kun, I doubt he'd join an organization that he believes wants to kill him, because of some crush bitching out on him. That's over-used. Naruto joining them because we wants to 'bone' BH is a little better, at least it's not over-used.. right?


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## Tyrannos (Jul 27, 2007)

N1nj45tyl3 said:


> Until He's given a name in either the manga, Shonen Jump or even the anime, I'm still gonna claim bullshit on that name



I'm not disagreeing with you one bit.  Just answering the question where the origination came from.  Like you said it hasn't been offically revealed, so the Yondaime should be the Yondaime.

But with latest developments, don't be too shocked if Kishimoto does say Arashi is his real name.   Though I'm not too sure on Kazama.  




Hakanami said:


> If you've done a good enough job, that no one bitches at you for it. Then there's no need to be nervous.
> 
> Virtually every idea has been done at least once, the problem is the more popular ideas just get used poorly.



So far I'm lucky with my criticisms, except from loudmouth who couldn't see a good story even if it hit him.  

And my cliches if any are small.   My stories are 100% original  (Best to my knowledge).   Even got props from the Naruto cast as well as other important people, and the Videos have gotten quite the attention on Youtube.   But still a good writer listens to his audience.  Not saying fanservice, but sometimes their suggestions can improve the story.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 27, 2007)

ShinigamiBane said:


> Did you know that there are many, many, cliche' Naruto FanFiction... stories. Such as the classic, Naruto is all alone in the world so he must travel back in time to save Konoha, Time-Travel Fic. Or, the Naruto and Hinata go on a mission and Naruto suddenly realizes his own feelings (hidden from himself mind you) and Hinata's hard to spot attraction to him (sarcasm), NaruHina Fic.
> 
> Naruto joins Akatsuki because Sakura gives him a bitch slap to the face for being a jerk and hurting 'her' Sasuke-kun, I doubt he'd join an organization that he believes wants to kill him, because of some crush bitching out on him. That's over-used. Naruto joining them because we wants to 'bone' BH is a little better, at least it's not over-used.. right?




You forgot the: Hinata tells Naruto she loves him and immeadiately they have freaky BDSM sex.
 Anyway now I'm starting to wonder if the two fics I wrote (just wrote them didn't bother to put forth any effort in them) are in the NaruxHina-mission fic category....


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## L (Jul 27, 2007)

N1nj45tyl3 said:


> You forgot the: Hinata tells Naruto she loves him and immeadiately they have freaky BDSM sex.


*walks up*
Hinata: OMG I LOVE YOU
Naruto:ROFL, I THINK I DO TO! LETS HAVE SEX!

...

 thats why I try to stay from lemon writes enterily, the author is to impatient about getting to the lemon they forget to put in a story thats worth a rats ass. 


*In general*


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 27, 2007)

L said:


> *walks up*
> Hinata: OMG I LOVE YOU
> Naruto:ROFL, I THINK I DO TO! LETS HAVE SEX!
> 
> ...



I'd write a true Naru/Hina fic myself, but no one'll read. (Possibly cause I will probably end up killing everyone)


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## Dogma (Jul 27, 2007)

I'd read i-...Oh, Naru/Hina? 

If that's the case then, no. 

Was looking for something interesting. :lol


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 27, 2007)

<.< then how about Hinata centered fic with just a touch of Kiba/hina (again with lots of character death =D)


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## Dogma (Jul 27, 2007)

How about and ItaSasuOro featuring those three characters only, with lots of character death?

Kids would love it. 

I don't have anything wrong with Naru/Hina in terms of canon, but fanfics really killed their relationship for me. Much like tards kill the image of their respective character for other people.

I'd read it, if it were well done. Otherwise, I'd take a look at the first chapter and then not comment anymore.

Don't worry though, if you put the NaruHina label on it and then slap a sappy sounding title on there I'm sure idiots would flock to it like flies on cake.

~On a side note, what's up with the character death?


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 27, 2007)

It can be done! We'll call it "Naru/Hina True tales of an opressive shortcake!!" >.> or something like that, but it'll be ItaSasuOro emo fest where they form the secret Suicide Club and kill each other. Should take about five whole chapters.

<.< and the whole character death thing....well, let's just say that even though I like Kankuro, I thought it was B.S he survived when he fought against Shino. Since then I've felt like Naruto needs more....cowbell....(ie Character death)...
....
....
...
...
..
..
or maybe I'm just morbid =/


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## Dogma (Jul 27, 2007)

Hmmm, Speaking of that. 

Has anyone mentioned lame ass death's before?

I read a couple of fics where Shikamaru dies in Temari or Ino's hands and they were kindof decent. But then I kept reading fics where Sakura, Hinata, and Sasuke all were getting knocked at light speed and Naruto just happened to find them 13 seconds before death.

Now, I don't mind character death at all. Years of being a Gundam fan have taught me that main characters are going to get knocked everyonce in awhile, if not quite alot near the end.

But does it always have to be so incredibly frequent/and or lame when they die? Couldn't they go out with some dignity, or in a situation where it's not being animated. 

Or better yet, a grotesque death that's very sudden and leaves very little time to think about it is also an amazing hook when reading an action story.

If I'm mulling through the average fic, and there's a fight going on between someone like... Deidara. Why not blow someone up in a way that absolutely no one see's coming. Instead of the ominous foreshadowing, and bullshit speeches right before they die.

~Lol, to the Cake idea, as well as *Emo Fest 3*: _An Uchiha Story._


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 27, 2007)

Well here's an excerpt from a fic I wrote where Shikamaru died. I (personally) think it gave him some dignity.



> Hanabi screamed as something heavy fell from above her and pinned her body to the ground.
> “Father!” She cried out, pushing as the roughly shaped object with her hands. “Nii-sama! Tasuke! Otosama!”
> “Hey! Where are you!” A familiar sounding voice called out from somewhere far away.
> “Over here! Please help me!” Hanabi continued to pushed against the heavy object as something hot began to burn her skin.
> ...


----------



## Furious George (Jul 27, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> Because alot of people like Naruto, and Sasuke.
> 
> She dissed Naruto in Part 1, by not wanting to look at him then anything more then a pain (at least for awhile.)
> 
> ...



Tch, yeah, well I still say they suck. 



> Anyhow, you guys talking about alot of this stuff makes me nervous that I'm writing overused material.



Well, don't be. There are way too many cliche's out there for fanfic writers to expect to avoid all of them! The cliches in this thread are not suddenly taboo, and just because you may have a few of them in your fic doesn't make it a bad fic. Hell, so far two cliche's that were listed here appear in my ongoing multi-chapter, Spring Time of Youth! 

*Fics with multiple character pairings:* My fic has 3 major pairings, with a possiblity of a side-pairing here and there. 

*Romance fics where characters fall in love with each other for no real reason:* NejiTen in my fic sorta has the 'love at first sight' thing going... but to my own credit, there were underlying and subtle reasons why I had that particular pairing go that route.


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## Dogma (Jul 27, 2007)

You know, I think I can safely say that I haven't trespassed on any of the really major, or stupid cliche's that have been mentioned.

Just goes to show you, there's benefits to being a ShikaTema or ShikaIno writer.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Jul 28, 2007)

I love ShikaXTem...maybe I should start working on those after I get off this Hinata (Character death! Woot!) binge.


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## Nunally (Jul 29, 2007)

Cliche? I can't really say. My stuff is a bunch of emotional angst. If I've done cliche-- which I probably have-- I don't recall.

But content often distracts people from the cliche.


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## Trelle (Jul 30, 2007)

> Fics with multiple character pairings:



The sentence: NaruHina SasuSaku ShikaIno NejiTen makes me want to die inside sometimes when I read it in summaries. I won't mind it if the fic gets me reading, but most fics that I've read with the Paring Quartet in them don't scream it out from the rooftops so readily. 

Offtopic, but dang: I really haven't found a convincing enough ShikaIno fic. It's the only pairing that just bothers me. And I'll read practically any pairing. ShikaIno just screams platonic for some reason. If anyone has a rec for a good ShikaIno then please link to it.


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## Dogma (Jul 30, 2007)

Ino Care.

It was amusing enough to keep me reading a couple of chapters of it without complaint.

There's one good one where they switch bodies for a couple of days, but it had its flaws too.

I like the love triangle ones, between him Temari and Ino. But there aren't very many of them.


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## Krzr (Jul 31, 2007)

Well reading this thread comes to tell me that as a new fanfic writer, I am totally screwed in making anything intresting.


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## _allismine_ (Jul 31, 2007)

People do not like reading complicated, in-depth, profound angst oneshots.

But the moment you have the words "NaruHina lemon" in your description, BAM. Three thousand hits in one night.

That's what I've learned in my experience so far. >_>


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## Dogma (Jul 31, 2007)

Oi, don't advertise here. 

We could all advertise for projects we've got or are making, but that's a bit too shameless in a thread like this.

~allismine

Though that's completely right, it's a work in progress.


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## Kage (Aug 1, 2007)

> Pretty much people who write you to tell you they're not going to read your stuff because it has X and Y as a pairing. Seriously, I don't give two shits about which pairings you care for, and don't waste my time bitching to me about it. If you don't like the way I make characters interact with each other, then write your own damn fic.



this goes without saying to me. if i even catch hints of sasusaku i'm so clicking the 'back' button and not bothering to waste my time to tell you how much i loathe that pairing and will simply refuse to read anything that contains it. NOTHING can make it believable to me.therefore leading me to conclude your story will end up OOC. if it was a promising story i will think "damn what a shame..." 



> 1. Yuri and Yaoi that takes itself seriously
> 
> Hey, I love Yuri, and Yaoi is your decision, but come one. I seriously doubt there's actually gay characters in Naruto that have received serious development. But you can write your angsty romances,or your crack lemons, as long as it's just to tell a story. But I absolutely hate Naruto yaoi. There is no way Sasuke would want to fuck Naruto, or any guy. The same goes for every guy in the show. Oh, and everytime a yaoi fangirl hears me give this speech, they call me homophobic. Well, guess what? I'm bisexual honey. Homophobia would make me a hypocrit.



i have to disagree with you here. i am by no means a yaoi fangirl. i do enjoy it if written well. which brings me to why i disagree with you. i think it can be done to be made believable. it's just hard to find the good stuff through all the trash..ESPECIALLY in the yaoi section.



> Because alot of people like Naruto, and Sasuke.
> 
> She dissed Naruto in Part 1, by not wanting to look at him then anything more then a pain (at least for awhile.)
> 
> ...



that's why i can stomach a story with _mild_ sakura bashing. now sakura as 'the complete and total bitch' story is too OOC to be worth reading, even with my dislike of sakura.


well i think most of the bothersome cliche's have already been mentioned. i've read a lot about the uber!naruto but have yet to read mention of the... 

*Ridiculously weak naruto*. 
naruto is by no means a genius and probably never will be. but he does work hard and he is not weak.  then i read a story where naruto and sasuke are fighting and naruto loses the ability to totally defend himself. it's one thing to not win the fight or not dominate the battle but he's not even putting up a _fight_. not only does naruto stay down but sasuke keeps him down with verbal abuse to boot. even with how god like sasuke is in cannon right now naruto would fight him tooth and nail.(granted probably with a few tears involved but narutos just...emotional? that way?) that is a fact to me and anything other then that is OOC. don't even get me started on the _'helpless girl-like but still very much a boy naruto that needs someone to protect him _(usually sasuke) _from all the bad things'  _ which falls into this category and is usually found in the majority of yaoi.

all my irks with cliches can just be chalked up to OOC i guess.


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## Mongrel (Aug 1, 2007)

*Morning Sickness in 10 Minutes*
I've read fics where a couple have intercourse, then 10 minutes later the girl is in the bathroom, puking her guts out.  It takes a month AT THE EARLIEST before morning sickness arises (any earlier is usually caused by anxiety).

Now, I can understand some writers might be too young to know about pregnancy; but, it’s a great opportunity for them to do some research – like a good writer should.

*Ungodly Powerful Characters & OCs*
I don't mind powerful characters -- but I hate characters that have no weakness or that their powers don't come at a cost.  It's like the writer put in a < + > + ^ + a + a + b cheat and their characters are now, ZOMG GM PWERZ!  


*Spoiler*: __ 



If you think about it, all powerful jutsus in Naruto come at a great cost -- Tsunade, Creation Rebirth; Itachi, going blind; Naruto, Shuriken Rasengan damaging him also; etc, etc ...




Other pet peeves of mine have already been mentioned multiple times in this thread, so I won't beat them into the dirt.


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## Trelle (Aug 1, 2007)

Since I have to beat the SuperPowered!Naruto horse some more...

Why must all of these stories have Naruto getting some badass sword and learning some badass kenjutsu? I mean it's not that it's a ad thing, but it seems like it's almost a requirement and it gets tired. Oh and black ANBU armor. Just...no.

Why, if you're going to skip the Mizuki thing, must you somehow make Naruto get Kage Bunshin in the most implausible way? Especially if he is already jounin level in your story. Spamming Kage Bunshin so he can get strong over night is boring. 

Also, what the fuck is up with Naruto being like "Oh I can't show my super strength...it must remain a secret to my teammates!" for no reason? It's obviously not because Naruto doesn't want to draw attention to himself, since at the first sight of battle he'll just spam all his badass techniques. Bleghahad.

Also I hate when people have Sasuke and Naruto or any "hot" Naruto character complaining about fangirls. Can't we pick a different word? It just bugs. 

OT: Kraen, I love your sig and I must read both your fics now because of this.*/random*


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## Dogma (Aug 1, 2007)

I've never really wasted my time reading an entire fanfic with a Super Powered Naruto, or a super weak Naruto....

You know, I kind of just don't read Naruto stuff anyways. People never get his character right.. Which leads me to this.

~*Retarded Naruto*~

I understand the kid is alittle hyper. That he overreacts without thinking, and tends to be on the quick-tempered side.

But must he be a complete idiot who looks like he'd get a harder battle from tieing his shoe then he would a shinobi?

I understand that not alot of people like Naruto too much, and they love to rub up on Saucegay, but if you don't like Naruto, then you should leave him alone and everything would be ok. 

It's somewhat like your walking near your school or whatever, and you see a window with some bees in it.

Just don't go near that window.

~Because when you don't he turns up only being able to fantasize about ramen, and Sakura, and making the dialog between him and anyone else look pathetic.

Though I'm alot more forgiving when it comes to this sortof thing, and I know writing a proper Naruto is almost as hard as writing a proper Neji or Shino.

It's still getting on my nerves.


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## Dogma (Aug 1, 2007)

I've never really wasted my time reading an entire fanfic with a Super Powered Naruto, or a super weak Naruto....

You know, I kind of just don't read Naruto stuff anyways. People never get his character right.. Which leads me to this.

~*Retarded Naruto*~

I understand the kid is alittle hyper. That he overreacts without thinking, and tends to be on the quick-tempered side.

But must he be a complete idiot who looks like he'd get a harder battle from tieing his shoe then he would a shinobi?

I understand that not alot of people like Naruto too much, and they love to rub up on Saucegay, but if you don't like Naruto, then you should leave him alone and everything would be ok. 

It's somewhat like your walking near your school or whatever, and you see a window with some bees in it.

Just don't go near that window.

~Because when you don't he turns up only being able to fantasize about ramen, and Sakura, and making the dialog between him and anyone else look pathetic.

Though I'm alot more forgiving when it comes to this sortof thing, and I know writing a proper Naruto is almost as hard as writing a proper Neji or Shino.

It's still getting on my nerves.


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## Nunally (Aug 2, 2007)

> People do not like reading complicated, in-depth, profound angst oneshots.



Oh god, I know.

Apparently my horribly written smut ficiton is better than Sasuke oneshots. ;____;


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## MandaheartsNaruto (Aug 2, 2007)

things that PISS me off in fanfics...

Naruhina and sakusasu:
ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN PEOPLE! hinata never talks to naruto, and when she does she fucking faints and mumbles. Sasuke is WAY too much of a jerk to pay attention to sakura, and in a fanfic, he suddenly realizes he loves her?? bull shit.

extremely long chapters:
I mean, i can handle a 10, 000 word chapter, but when its 30,000 words long, and all the characters are talking about is drabble, that REALLY gets on my nerves.

bad spelling:
how hard is it to spell people?!?! if you're unsure how to spell something, go to friggin dictionary.com!!! its not that hard.... 

yoai:
im sorry to all the yoai fans out there, im not anti-gay or anything, in fact i have friends that are gay, but narugaa , narusasu, and anyother yaoi pairing i cant stand. look at the facts people, it doesnt look like kishi is going to make any of the characters gay. so please leave your gay fantasies in your mind.

those are my peeves...


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## spudrow2005 (Aug 2, 2007)

Cyckness said:


> Tch, yeah, well I still say they suck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol i agree its impossible to write a perfect fic, u just need to write ur story and hope for the best


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## Haggath (Aug 2, 2007)

_allismine_ said:


> People do not like reading complicated, in-depth, profound angst oneshots.
> 
> But the moment you have the words "NaruHina lemon" in your description, BAM. Three thousand hits in one night.
> 
> That's what I've learned in my experience so far. >_>



*chuckles* That is only too true. I'm going to quote one of the authors of ff.net on this one. It's a long one, but worth the read, if for nothing else than amusement.


*Spoiler*: __ 



2. Psychological, philosophical, satirical, sarcastic and issue-dealing fictions are not appreciated.

I am not too surprised about this one; since too many people are simple action-crazed idiots. It really shows if you like to think or not. Clearly, a lot of people aren't thinking.

Allow me to ask you something then. What is the key element to be satirical and sarcastic?

Wit.

You need wit in order to be sarcastic. You can't be sarcastic if you are not witty.

With that said, am I witty then? I wouldn't know, since I never pictured myself as someone who is higher above the plane than others. In other words, I never thought myself as someone better. My intellect is up to you to decide.

Don't worry, I am not that much of an idiot. I have plenty of faces for you to deal with.

As I was kindly saying, the types of fictions that is listed next to the '2' above are not popular either. Here are some of the reasons why.

British humour, people, are a type of humour that needswit to make up and understand. Aside from having good ears, you need to know what it is that they are talking about in order to find it funny. If you are not knowledgable, or even have the ability to look between the lines, or perhaps look a little deeper than scratching the surface, you will just miss the opportunity to laugh.Gold to some, and gibberish to the others. It's not like Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle where they use sex, drugs, and other shit to make people laugh. Those jokes are obvious -despite that it does give me a good laugh after hearing them. Satire, in my opinion, is even harder to pull off than sarcasm, and that takes an incredible amount of wit. Without wit, you can't make satirical words, and more so you cannot understand what makes the satire amusing in the first place.

Good example of satire... watch School Rumble 2nd Term for the megazord look alike in the opening theme. That is a satire of Power Rangers in a very... perverted way.

Unfortunately, there is a shit load of people who cannot comprehend this level of intelligence. And the numbers just decrease everyday, I am afraid. Therefore, reading these fics makes them feel stupid, since they don't understand it. Then, we are back at square one: ignorance. Because it made them feel dumb, they won't read it anymore. No one likes to be an idiot, right? They want to feel smart! And when something upsets that brain that happens to be at the size of a pea, mommy always taught them to move away and try something at a lower caliber.

Is it any wonder why brain cells aren't growing?

Intelligence sure appears to degenerate at a horrifically quick rate per day.

The only thing people are good for in the 21st century is sex. Sex, much sex, and much more sex.

It must be very rewarding. Good for you.

3. Cliche, predictable, overused, overdone, unoriginal fictions are highly loved.

Why are these fictions so loved when there are over a hundred other fics that are just like theirs?

Look at it.It has the same content, same plot line, same order of action, same reaction towards a certain subject, same style of talking, same dialogue, same pairing falling in love with each other immediately after reuniting with another, same conflict, same scene before the hero and heroine fuck another... Wow, this fic is nearly the same as that last fic I read!

(The following is an example of a reaction of some lame duck reader while reading a cliche fic as he/she explains their reaction as they read. It should look something like this)

Hey, I know what is going to happen! Let's see... um... Naruto comes back after 3 years... yes, yes... and then Hinata notices him again... and I know that he will notice her, too. Oh my God! I am right! He did notice her! Oh, oh, I know this, I know what is about to come... They talk... about stuff like romance... Holy... did you see that, did you see that, Hinata banished her shyness (some of it, anyway) and actually talked to Naruto... and man, he talked to her, too! Oh god, that is, like, so exciting! He was so loud, too, as though he didn't change at all. But like, I love him loud because I wouldn't understand why he wouldn't be. I love that talking scene, like, I so knew that it was going happen, but it is just so exciting to see that scene again. Oh yeah, I so knew, and I so know that they are going to date after they talked to another for 1 hour. What do we have here... Naruto just asked Hinata for a date, just like I predicted... and she said, 'yes', oh yeah, I knew she would say yes!

I think like dates are really awesome, I mean, that is how they know each other, right? But dates are nothing without that kiss, and I am so waiting for that kiss. I know that they will kiss, like, it has to be done, and if they don't kiss each other -Oh shit, they kissed! They kissed! And after the first date, too! Oh, oh, damn, that was sweet. I, like, so knew that they would kiss, but damn, after the first date! I am so surprised, and even though every other fiction wrote it like that... damn, that got my blood running! After dates always come the sex, but like Hinata is too shy and stuff, you know, like she can't ask Naruto to have sex because she is so shy and stuff. She needs some confidence, you know, and there is no one better to ask than Sakura!

Like, you and I both know that Sakura will so encourage the sex, because she did that before in other fics, and all of them make her into that good friend role and she will so encourage Hinata to go on with it. Better yet, Sakura will make Hinata dress up nicely, because like, you know, it makes her all sexy and stuff and Naruto is such a pervert and stuff. You know Naruto would just fall completely in love with her and then fuck her. I already know that this will take place in Naruto's home, and she would be alone in her dress, or whatever, just hungrily waiting for him and so they can make love. Oh, my God, Naruto finds her sexy! He is watching her... his hormones are kicking in... Hinata likes it... shit, they do it at last! I so knew they would do it, and goddamn, they said the exactly the same shit as that other lemon fic I read yesterday, but this one added this one new line that spiced everything up for the better!

Wow, I can't believe the fic is over... Shit, I knew exactly what was going to be on it before I read it... Every scene I thought of was used... in the same order, too... Wow, I must be a genius! I understood this fic completely! It was like, no challenge! I am smart! I am intelligent! I can't believe how smart this fiction made me! This is the best! I have to thank the author for making me feel so smart! I got to give them a review for my gratitude! I am smart, bitches! I am smart!

(End of Example, thank goodness I'm done!)

Yes, cliche fics brings this sense of illusion to people; the illusion of false intelligence and yet it seems ever so real.

Mark my words; I said 'seems'.

Readers don't need to think, because the author thinks for them! It would be even better if the author spoonfeeds their audience, and therefore the readers have it even easier when they read by not even having a need to do anything anymore.

If you do still do not understand why cliche, overdone fictions are most preferred and gain the most amount of reviews after reading my example... then you are a complete fucking moron.




The author is a cynical bastard, but I understand his views. Does that make me a cynical bastard too? Very likely.

In any case... There are so many clich?s I don't like that I'm not even going to bother listing them all out. Theoretically, you could say that every base plot that has been done more than, say, fifteen times is automatically something I don't even bother reading, unless the fic is one of the first of its kind or recommended to me by a person who handles their grammar.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that I mainly read fanfiction dating back from '05 and earlier than that.

Also, before I start reading a fic, I'll take a look at the summary. If the author is begging for reviews, I'll consider the value of the fic. If he/she is telling it's his/her first story, I'll consider reading it even more. If the author can't handle proper grammar even in the summary, I'll leave the story be.

After that, I'll take a look at the author's bio, and check it for the same things. If the story passes all these things, THEN I'll start reading and thinking about the storyline and possible clich?s. Also, I don't read stories that obviously aren't going to be finished.

Yes, I'm picky, but with the fact that ff.net has over 90,000 Naruto stories, I think being this picky is a reasonable and justified precaution - for very big percentage of those stories is sub-par.


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## BrojoJojo (Aug 2, 2007)

Yaoi Pairings:
 Naruto and Sasuke aren't gay so far, I doubt they ever will be.

Haha, Angst One-shots:
 It may be cliche to hate them, but I have to sift through thousands of them to find my NaruHina smut! ( lol )

Hmm... What else to say...

Sakura Being a Super-bitch:
 Do I have to say any more?

Hiashi's disdain for Hinata being greatly exagerated:
 Sure its a good way to get Hinata staying at Naruto's house. But Hiashi isn't heartless, Just mean. Very Mean.

Naruto Being Super hot: 
 You've seen Naruto, I've seen Naruto, He isnt a sex god.


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## Dogma (Aug 2, 2007)

I don't agree completely with that authors comment. 

It sounds alittle snobbish, cynical, and bitter.

Not that there's anything wrong with being cynical, nor bitter. But it sounds like an author scorned because they're story wasn't read by the many idiots who read the sub-par stories out there.

There's some truth their words, but I can't support that statement completely.

Same with yours, about only reading things dating from 05' and earlier.

The only difference between a story made from 05, and a story made in 06 or 07 is how much time it has had to be viewed. 

Discriminating by age shows lack of understanding. Discriminating by experience is different of course. That ones a lot more acceptable. 

In fact, one would think a story made in 07 might be better then one made in 05, because there's been more time to hone skill and talent. So just because it was made before shouldn't make it anymore better. 

The same could be said about the cliche ideal. The first time a cliche was used, doesn't mean it was the best time. Take superheroes for example, The first time a superhero appeared doesn't mean that that was the very best superhero made. It just meant it came first.

The best will be the best, no matter when it was made or other trivial things such as that. Not that being somewhat picky isn't understandable, nor really that big of a deal. 

But is it also not possible to overlook something that might have actually been something worth looking out due to such standards? Possible to neglect what truly should have been seen?

The only way to see whether something is good or not, is to take a chance. Now of course you can weed out the obvious trash, but being stern about it seems too farfetched for me.

Perhaps I misunderstood both statements some way or another, but I got a "I'm on my high horse and not coming down" impression from that.


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## Tenshi Kasumi (Aug 2, 2007)

*Major OOCness*

Come on, Whats the point if every one's gonna be jack out on sugar and highly caffeinated drinks making them jump off walls, dance on tables, and be completely opposite of what they actually act like? For a parody go for it but if your making a pretty general fic then it's completely redundant and in need for a serious ass kicking. I can understand them being drunk. When your drunk you don't have a clue as to what the hell your doing probably, but you better be fucking mega drunk from something really crazy to happen. Not a one sip because it's your first time making you a major drunkard.

There's a lot of this going around I've noticed. Don't get me wrong I understand it's hard to keep character's completely in sink with their personalities and straying of just a tiny bit, or even just enough to still make the story work to your advantage is perfectly fine, but making Sasuke (yes Sasuke, no that wasn't a typo) scream "I LOVE YOU WITH ALL OF MY HEART" just doesn't even deserve a comment on how OOC that is. Sure fluff is good, but not to that point.

I myself constantly freak about how I did with portraying the characters.

*Yep, She's/He's the One for Me!*

The whole "OMG She's/He's the one for me!" thing is getting old and usually causes me to just push the back button.

I'm addicted to the SasuSaku pairing but having Sasuke go "HOLY DAMN HOW COULD I NOT SEE IT!?" *bangs head off wall* "SAKURA WAS THE GIRL FOR ME THE ENTIRE TIME! I MUST MAKE IT UP TO HER COMPLETELY BY BEING A TOTAL PANSY AND ASK HER OUT!"

*Anti-Stuttering Hinata*

I don't care if you don't like typing out a stuttering Hinata, don't even say her name in the story then. What was the point of even having her there if your gonna have her be completely confident, and such? Hinata is a "shy" character, the stuttering is what shows this, but please don't go over board there's just a point where it gets ridiculous and completely annoying. If a simple sentence from Hinata takes the reader, or even the writer about 2-3 minutes to write/read/figure out what she's saying you have a problem there  

*A sudden split in conversation?*

It makes things difficult to read if you don't put something to show a change of scene. For some reason a lot of people haven't figured out that there is a thing called a ruler when you go into the edit mode of your document at fanfiction.net  

Although a lot of people are putting down something to show a split in conversation a lot there are those that still don't.

*Vampire Fics, Affairs, High school, etc like that*

One good one, Please just one? I'm tired of searching and never finding one. I can understand if your new and such and it's your first fic but seriously don't write about something like that if your cautious on how it will turn out! It's aggravating to look through and find none that actually are worth the time and effort that was put into them.

*Going less*

Alright my whole falsify is, if you write an 'M' rated fic or hell any rated fic! Go. all. *OUT*! If your going to write a scene in which would lead to a lime or a lemon don't just cut it off because you to embarrassed or you feel your not ready to! Then why lead it to that direction at all? If your not good with battle scene's why even make them able to fight? or even be Ninjas!? Don't go less then what your directing towards! If it's a 'M' rated fic, stop putting down butt, and just put the word ASS!, same thing goes people putting the word freaking, just put the word fuck down, your computer wont explode I promise!

I just get tired of people going less then what they should just because their embarrassed about it or they claim their not ready 


That's just a few at the moment~ I'll post others later.


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## Circe (Aug 2, 2007)

Most fanfics make me sick.


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## akaasher (Aug 2, 2007)

Tenshi Sakura said:


> *Major OOCness*
> 
> Come on, Whats the point if every one's gonna be jack out on sugar and highly caffeinated drinks making them jump off walls, dance on tables, and be completely opposite of what they actually act like? For a parody go for it but if your making a pretty general fic then it's completely redundant and in need for a serious ass kicking. I can understand them being drunk. When your drunk you don't have a clue as to what the hell your doing probably, but you better be fucking mega drunk from something really crazy to happen. Not a one sip because it's your first time making you a major drunkard.
> 
> ...




why are you barking at people who just don't have the talent 
to write a real good fan-fic but are atleast having a try???

it's like you're putting down a fan-fic standard or something.
it is fan fiction?


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## Haggath (Aug 2, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> I don't agree completely with that authors comment.
> 
> It sounds alittle snobbish, cynical, and bitter.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with being cynical, nor bitter. But it sounds like an author scorned because they're story wasn't read by the many idiots who read the sub-par stories out there.



Yes, you're right, it does. However, this author has written a series of stories that each have rounded up several hundred reviews, so it's not the case in this point.  the author's bio, in case you want to further analyze his character and stories.



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> Discriminating by age shows lack of understanding. Discriminating by experience is different of course. That ones a lot more acceptable.
> 
> In fact, one would think a story made in 07 might be better then one made in 05, because there's been more time to hone skill and talent. So just because it was made before shouldn't make it anymore better.



You have a point. Of course, if I spot a promising author, I will check their profile in case they have newer works. And, well, eventually I WILL run out of stories older than '05, and I have to move to the ones published afterwards. 

Perhaps I came off harsher than I intended concerning the age. Of course I'm not blind enough to seriously claim every fiction younger than two years is utter trash. However, the possibility for it to be so is much higher, in my opinion.



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> The same could be said about the cliche ideal. The first time a cliche was used, doesn't mean it was the best time. Take superheroes for example, The first time a superhero appeared doesn't mean that that was the very best superhero made. It just meant it came first.
> 
> The best will be the best, no matter when it was made or other trivial things such as that. Not that being somewhat picky isn't understandable, nor really that big of a deal.



Good point, yet again. I do acknowledge the possibility that anyone who came up with the idea of Naruto nearly dieing and then going back in time in the first place might've been a rapid fanboy/girl who couldn't get their grammar straight, and that someone who picked the idea up after fifty people had tried it actually pulled off something magnificent. It is very possible, I'm not denying it.

However, that was only the other half of my post. I also meant that after I've read fifteen stories with the same basic idea (whether they've been good or bad), I am so tired with the concept that I will not look into that kind of story in a long time (possibly ever, but unlikely). This is logical, yes?

I left that unmentioned, though, which was mistake on my behalf. I have a bad habit of not writing down half of what I'm thinking and presume people get it, which is one of the reasons I fail as an author.



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> But is it also not possible to overlook something that might have actually been something worth looking out due to such standards? Possible to neglect what truly should have been seen?
> 
> The only way to see whether something is good or not, is to take a chance. Now of course you can weed out the obvious trash, but being stern about it seems too farfetched for me.



Of course such a possibility exists, I'm aware of that. That is why I'm very keen to ask for people (who I know appreciate a good story) to suggest some fics they've read. That way I'm reading fics I normally wouldn't even throw a glance at.

*chuckles* Take a chance, yes... That's something against my nature. I'd rather stick with something I'm comfortable with than jump to something new - at least, if there are no other people to give me a nudge to a new direction. But that's my personal weakness. I ask that we won't go into that further; It isn't, after all, relevant to anyone's interest or on-topic.



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> Perhaps I misunderstood both statements some way or another, but I got a "I'm on my high horse and not coming down" impression from that.



That's probably rather accurate on the first statement, but I personally object that on my own statement. The author I've linked you to is one of the worst cynic's I've seen, and I would be lying if I denied myself being one. I do have my own way of thinking which can be taken as somewhat elitist, but I'm more than willing to discuss about it - among other things?-, and I can't fight against logic and reasonableness.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 2, 2007)

Griff Hyral said:


> Hiashi's disdain for Hinata being greatly exagerated:
> Sure its a good way to get Hinata staying at Naruto's house. But Hiashi isn't heartless, Just mean. Very Mean.



QFT. 

Hiashi is way too cool a character to be misunderstood, and sadly he always is. Let's get one thing clear, people.... *Hiashi does not hate Hinata.* The manga was never even close to suggesting this. He does not beat Hinata, he is not constantly verbally abusing Hinata, he doesn't torture Hinata out of bitterness because his wife died (believe me, I have seen that story more then once). Hell, he actually saved Hinata's life in the manga when she was being kidnapped! 

Okay, if Hiashi doesn't hate Hinata, then what is his deal?.. He is disappointed in her because she doesn't live up to his standards. He doesn't consider her worth anything... that is a completely different emotion then hate. Its not that he doesn't love her, or that he hates her.... its just that he doesn't care. This makes him an asshole... but it does not make him the monster that fics have painted him out to be.


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## Dogma (Aug 2, 2007)

Haggath said:


> Yes, you're right, it does. However, this author has written a series of stories that each have rounded up several hundred reviews, so it's not the case in this point.  the author's bio, in case you want to further analyze his character and stories.



Eh, I'm not too interested to be perfectly honest. Not because of anything mentioned in this thread, but just personal nature. I don't really have favorite writers, or anything of the sort.

I suppose years about being a writer myself,  have made me lose interest in other writers. Not that I won't read their work, but at the end of the day the only difference between myself and them, is what we write about and how we wrote it.


> You have a point. Of course, if I spot a promising author, I will check their profile in case they have newer works. And, well, eventually I WILL run out of stories older than '05, and I have to move to the ones published afterwards.



I apologize, but I still dislike that "Publish Date" ideal.

It seems completely unfair to those who haven't gotten a chance to have that same time to publish their work.

Think of it like a football team. Should the Senior play above the Freshman because he was there? 

No.

The one with the most skill, and talent should play. Nothing more, and nothing less.

That's just how I think~


> Perhaps I came off harsher than I intended concerning the age. Of course I'm not blind enough to seriously claim every fiction younger than two years is utter trash. However, the possibility for it to be so is much higher, in my opinion.



I don't have a massive issue with that kind of mindset. In fact, it could be right. (Don't misunderstand, I may dislike it, but I'm not foolish enough to think it's completely false.)

It just feels that, people who think like that don't give the other people a chance. And that's what gets me annoyed, when things are on unequal footing.


> Good point, yet again. I do acknowledge the possibility that anyone who came up with the idea of Naruto nearly dieing and then going back in time in the first place might've been a rapid fanboy/girl who couldn't get their grammar straight, and that someone who picked the idea up after fifty people had tried it actually pulled off something magnificent. It is very possible, I'm not denying it.
> 
> However, that was only the other half of my post. I also meant that after I've read fifteen stories with the same basic idea (whether they've been good or bad), I am so tired with the concept that I will not look into that kind of story in a long time (possibly ever, but unlikely). This is logical, yes?



Yes, it is. Getting tired of something is natural. I mean I stopped reading NaruHina, because it's the exact same rewashed crap, under a different author name.

Is it wrong for me to say this? Somewhat.

But have I seen enough reasons why I should decide that I was wrong?

Nope.


> I left that unmentioned, though, which was mistake on my behalf. I have a bad habit of not writing down half of what I'm thinking and presume people get it, which is one of the reasons I fail as an author.



Hey, it's no big. :amazed 

Shit happens, you know. 



> Of course such a possibility exists, I'm aware of that. That is why I'm very keen to ask for people (who I know appreciate a good story) to suggest some fics they've read. That way I'm reading fics I normally wouldn't even throw a glance at.



There's a flaw in this idea, but I suppose it's not worth trying to explain why unless I really knew all the facts of the situation.

Plus it's really not my job to criticize this aspect any further. As long as you understand that the possibility exists, then what more should I say on the matter?


> *chuckles* Take a chance, yes... That's something against my nature. I'd rather stick with something I'm comfortable with than jump to something new - at least, if there are no other people to give me a nudge to a new direction. But that's my personal weakness. I ask that we won't go into that further; It isn't, after all, relevant to anyone's interest or on-topic.



Suit yourself, of course.

I'm a writer, and a critic. Somewhat impulsive, but it's not like it matters.

I'll read a story around here, to review and try to give new writers a push in the new direction, while meeting a couple of other good writers. And of course making my own works.

If I worried about wasting time because I read something that was done in a mediocre manner, then I can truly say that I would have wasted a boatload of time.

But by writing a criticism, I can at least say, something was done to my or someone else's benefit. That or I got a good laugh, at some really poorly done crap.

Either works. :amazed 



> That's probably rather accurate on the first statement, but I personally object that on my own statement. The author I've linked you to is one of the worst cynic's I've seen, and I would be lying if I denied myself being one. I do have my own way of thinking which can be taken as somewhat elitist, but I'm more than willing to discuss about it - among other things?-, and I can't fight against logic and reasonableness.



It's no big honest.

I think alot of critics or authors are cynical. Because we happen to think upon a similar wavelength. We all write, and the steps for writing don't differ so vastly from person to person that it somewhat alienates us from one another.

But we do all have our own ways of thinking, that's just life.

I respect your opinion on the matter, and your way of thinking. But in response to the conflicts it has with my own way of thinking, I presented a few opinions of my own.

Common debate/discussion procedures. Not a big deal. :amazed


----------



## Tenshi Kasumi (Aug 2, 2007)

akaasher said:


> why are you barking at people who just don't have the talent
> to write a real good fan-fic but are atleast having a try???
> 
> it's like you're putting down a fan-fic standard or something.
> it is fan fiction?



How do you call that _barking_? If I was putting a standard down I probably would make it harsh, that was far from harsh in my opinion 

Asking for you to get more experience before trying something a like High school fanfic is not harsh. It's from having experience. I've written my own share of pathetic High school fanfics. I myself after going back nowadays and re-reading them that even with all those hours of typing both that I wrote were not worth a read let alone the time it took to write them.

It's been about a year since then, and I still don't feel I'm ready to write one even though I've improved quite a lot since then  

I've also seen promising fanfics that went down because they where nervous and didn't venture forth even though they had at least _some_ experience under their belt. As to why I hate when author's don't go all out.

And last, why is it that saying you shouldn't write for Hinata, if your not up to at least doing her character at least correct to the point of showing her shyness wrong?  If you can't do a character don't write for them until you feel you can, as to why I don't see why you should bother mentioning Hinata if your not ready to type stuttering like.

Yes I know it's called fan fiction, did you once see me point out a name and bash that person for ever writing? No, you didn't. I could understand if I had made fun of someone writing but I made comments on what I disliked about the things that I commonly see in fan fictions. Did you ever see me say that High school, Vampire, or Affair fictions needed to be burned, destroyed, etc? No you didn't. So I believe I was completely fine


----------



## Dogma (Aug 2, 2007)

There's a problem in what your saying though,

Because how do you expect to get better, unless you give it a shot?

Can you get better at drawing, cooking, music, if you never try something different?

Not everyone has an eye to fix they're mistakes before posting, nor do they have the talent to write something other then what they really had their hearts set on writing.

You think people should write something other then a High School fic, if they haven't written one before, or if it's their first attempt at a fanfic.

But what if they couldn't write anything other then that? Or what if that's what they really wanted too? 

My point is, how can you ascertain experience, without trying? You said your self that you tried writing High School fics, and didn't do a good job. But gained the experience after making it. 

Are other people supposed to be different? Or should they not learn the same way, and have something kindly come along and tell them that the work itself was mediocre?

From what I could grasp from what you were trying to say, you don't want people to try something with gaining experience first. But how can they gain experience, without trying it first?

I'd comment on the "Going all out" portion, but I'm trying to limit my responses and future satirical comments for the moment. 

I'll give it a post or two of course.


----------



## Kage (Aug 2, 2007)

oh just remembered one...

*naruto gets adopted by >insert powerful shinobi here< *

there are just simply too many plot holes in stories involving this. Not to mention OOC...(always with the OOCness)and most of them end up evolving into the dreaded super naruto considering who he's been adopted by. there are so many ways this comes about, these are the ones i'm most familiar with.... 

*naruto being taken away at a young age by...whoever.though the original reason for leaving the village was the ghastly treatment of naruto and their outrage by it yet they STILL come back for whatever reason. (usually implausible)


* some ninja takes pity upon a young naruto (well younger then canon!naruto at the start. hell he's just always adopted young period.)

*it's assigned as a mission by the hokage


now i think stories like these could be promising. hell i've read about one or two that i _liked_ that have some of the cliches i mentioned above in them. but with those i felt like the authors made it work by toning down the OOCness to a tolerable level (and by 'tolerable' i mean close to none) creating a good enviroment, believable situation's,believable character development and growth... i could go on. sadly most can not accomplish this. i just find it difficult to believe a young naruto pitied by...let's say kakashi (a popular choice) who is probably in his late teens to earlier twenties (if they bother to add the correct age difference between the two) who is still in ANBU (again if they bother to follow canon storyline, i think he was still an ANBU around that age) take naruto and demand the hokage to let him raise him and have naruto call him 'tousan'. especially if that naruto was portrayed to have a particularly abusive upbring, (a result of the village nin and civilians alike) be completely trusting and comfortable with kakashi.

ooh which reminds me of another peeve (which i think has been mentioned before)

*exaggerated mistreatment of a young naruto by the village of konoha. *

now i'm almost _completely_ sure that the worst of his treatment involved  gossip, name calling, neglect and just general disdain. (all which is bad enough) but when their beating the shit outta him *every single day* to the point of near death just to do it again the next because kyuubi 'heals' most of the damage within the same day, refusing him service at restaurants,hospitals etc... having the villagers over price him for anything he buys (or else sell him bad or faulty merchandise and STILL overprice him for it) have them trash his home on a more then occasional basis...WTF?  isn't that going a _bit_ overboard? it's just pure torture... and i'm not even mentioning all the damage done to him by ninja in the village who have the ability to use _jutsu_*shudders* and some (if not most) of these stories include *all* the treatment i listed in them.

maybe i read too much fan fiction for my own good. but sadly i lack anything better to do


----------



## Tenshi Kasumi (Aug 2, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> There's a problem in what your saying though,
> 
> Because how do you expect to get better, unless you give it a shot?
> 
> ...



Hmm, True I didn't think of it like that  (yes believe it or not I'm not as bull headed as to say that my opinions are absolute  , because everyone has a right to an opinion)

You make a falid point when it comes to them getting the expirence, that I didn't think about, and I can't help but agree with you on :amazed

Thank you for pointing that out, I never would of thought about it like that if you hadn't ^^

As far as you giving a satirical comment towards my "going all out" belief soon, I don't really think it's necessary for a satire comment. I can understand if you don't agree with me but being sarcastic isn't a needed


----------



## Dogma (Aug 2, 2007)

I changed my mind about it anyways, :amazed
Not that I mind being sarcastic per-say. But I suppose there's no need to do so at the moment. 

Glad we could come to an understanding though. 

~Just out of curiosity, I'm seeing alot of the same "Horrible treatment" comments pop up.

Do people really over exaggerate the poor treatment of Naruto, Hinata, and the like so drastically?

Why would you keep on reading after that point if it's done in such an ugly way?


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## Tenshi Kasumi (Aug 2, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> I changed my mind about it anyways, :amazed
> Not that I mind being sarcastic per-say. But I suppose there's no need to do so at the moment.
> 
> Glad we could come to an understanding though.
> ...



Thank you again XD

, And yes actually people do, it isn't just Naruto and Hinata either, although their the most popular when it comes to exaggerating being treated poorly, Sakura get's the _justice_ of being a cutter, benger, abused child, and crystal meth addict, and if I remember correctly seeing as I've read only one or two Lee fics, he gets ganged up on alot and usually everyone makes fun of him but like one character and that's usually the one he's paired with... I'm not sure about other character's though 

Edit:

I myself will only read it ifI feel the abuse isn't completely overboard, example Sakura being a Crystal meth addict? 0.0

Although I did finish a fanfic that had her doing crystal meth, it wasn't that bad, like some of the others that I only got through about the 3rd or 4th chapters before going to a different fanfic.


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## Valtieri (Aug 2, 2007)

When people make OC's defeat or kill a real character. it just pisses me off to no end seriously. that and major OOC.


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## Trelle (Aug 2, 2007)

I will never say anything bad about a pairing, because if you give me practically any pairing I've read at least one story that's done it in a way that doesn't have me screaming and ripping my head off. I may have to pick the pieces of my brain off the floor for some of the weirder ones, but yeah. 

I mean, a couple of days ago I read the most fantastic Sasuke x TenTen fic. I mean, TenTen. And SASUKE. Have those two even talked to each other...ever in canon? But in the hands of a good writer, it just worked. 



> now i'm almost completely sure that the worst of his treatment involved gossip, name calling, neglect and just general disdain. (all which is bad enough) but when their beating the shit outta him every single day to the point of near death just to do it again the next because kyuubi 'heals' most of the damage within the same day, refusing him service at restaurants,hospitals etc... having the villagers over price him for anything he buys (or else sell him bad or faulty merchandise and STILL overprice him for it) have them trash his home on a more then occasional basis...WTF? isn't that going a bit overboard? it's just pure torture... and i'm not even mentioning all the damage done to him by ninja in the village who have the ability to use jutsu*shudders*



Okay, this reminds me of this one story I forgot what it was called. But it was like 5 chapters of Naruto torture, and these weren't very short chapters either. Guys, I am not lying here: it was absolutely ridiculously over the top.

Seriously? I would have had to let Kyuubi choke a bitch halfway though the prologue if I were in Naruto's shoes. 

So, of course, I have to keep reading to see how long this author planned to drag it out. Itachi would be proud of the levels of hatred in the fic. Well, honestly...what all the torture culminated in wasn't that bad; the concept had loads of potential but it just wasn't very well written. I sometimes wish that I could just rewrite some stories without getting the author smackdown, because there are some very good ideas that--if they went the way I wanted them to--would be very interesting. 

_(Actually I've caved in for one idea...but I'll never post it anywhere. I just have to write it my way though!)_

Which brings me back to what Hakanami's last few posts. Co-signed x 100. Honestly, if you want to read good fanfiction you have to take some risks. From my experience, truly badfic is pretty easy to spot. Sure I've read some stuff that looked good from the summary but turned out to be stinkers, but that's been a very small minority. 

I think the reason why I get so frustrated with SuperPowered!Naruto fic is that deep down, I like the concept and want to read a story where it's explored skillfully. So, I keep reading those kinds of fics even if a lot of the times I end up getting annoyed in the hope that I will find the jackpot. I've found a couple that are pretty good. 

If anything, people need to just read the rec thread here. That's how I got into Naruto fic, and I'm far away from finishing all of the good fic posted in there.

On a random note, has anyone ever contemplated trying to write a cliche fic just to see what you could do with it? Ever since I starting reading and posting in this thread, I've been writing my take on a Stronger Than Normal!Naruto. It's...interesting, didn't know I had some of those ideas in my head. I might end up actually posting this one when/if it gets finished.  

On a not so random note: I honestly believe that for almost every cliche, you can find a fic that does it well. Seriously, name a cliche...I will start a list. I already did so a few pages back, but there are plenty more where those came from...surprisingly. Maybe it can be edited in the first post as a Reasons to Still Hold Hope for the Naruto Fandom, or something. ^_^


----------



## Kage (Aug 3, 2007)

> Trelle said:
> 
> 
> > Which brings me back to what Hakanami's last few posts. Co-signed x 100. Honestly, if you want to read good fanfiction you have to take some risks. From my experience, truly badfic is pretty easy to spot. Sure I've read some *stuff that looked good from the summary but turned out to be stinkers*, but that's been a very small minority.
> ...


----------



## Trelle (Aug 4, 2007)

I was reading a story that had a good summary and it was actually good for 22 chapters. Then come the 24rd chapter everything just gets all weird and goes to hell. I was mad at myself for wasting my time with the story. So disappointed in the author. It's the only negative review I've ever left because damn it was the biggest let down.



> now i'm gonna go back to the issue of changing naruto's appearance. clothing is one thing, but giving him jiraiya like hair(eww..) different color hair, different color eyes (which is one of the things i love most about naruto) making him magically 6 foot 4 at the age of 15-16...now that just isn't naruto anymore!! well at least in my humble opinion it isn't.



Word. Authors that do this + ditch the fashion sense + ditch the personality might as well just write an OC because it's not Naruto anymore. 



> naruto's extreme paranoia about his friends discovering his "secret"
> 
> god i hate these. naruto is so worried his friends will find out about kyuubi and hate him forever. to me although canon!naruto doesn't exactly advertise the fact that he's a jinchuuriki he doesn't hide that fact either.



Yep I hate this too. And then he treats the rest of his teams like they're civilians to be protected and not competent ninja. And they have his teammates take it in stride that they're being turned into cheerleaders! I mean, really? Where is the fun in that? 

Also another corollary to this cliche is when this paranoia happens in the Time Travel!Naruto fics. I find it to be lazy writing for the most part. Especially if the Naruto is stronger than he should be at whatever age he travels back to. I mean, what is the point of being able to change things if you don't change them? 

I don't want to see sissy changes like saving Haku and Zabuza, which is a common occurrence in almost all of these fics. Time travel can muck things up. I can go on and on about Chaos Theory and the Butterfly Effect.

There was this one story that has, unfortunately, been long since discontinued, where Rokudaime!Naruto teleported back in time to save Konoha from ruin. Do you know what was one of the first things he did? Instead of being like "OMG I can't let anyone know that I'm from the future" he marched over to the village of Sound and chopped Orochimaru's head off. 

That is what I'm talking about! Already, half of canon has been erased and you wonder, what is going to happen next? It might be hard to come up with something as interesting as a canon, but if you're going to write a Time Travel fic then I think it's something that you should be aware of and willing to exploit.


----------



## Alacron (Aug 6, 2007)

Trelle said:


> There was this one story that has, unfortunately, been long since discontinued, where Rokudaime!Naruto teleported back in time to save Konoha from ruin. Do you know what was one of the first things he did? Instead of being like "OMG I can't let anyone know that I'm from the future" he marched over to the village of Sound and chopped Orochimaru's head off.
> 
> That is what I'm talking about! Already, half of canon has been erased and you wonder, what is going to happen next? It might be hard to come up with something as interesting as a canon, but if you're going to write a Time Travel fic then I think it's something that you should be aware of and willing to exploit.


I think I know that fic, Divergence by Nawaki right?  Great fic, too bad he didn't get too far before putting it on hiatus though.


Man, the one thing that I hate more than these cliches is to look at my own fics and see just how many of them I'm guilty of myself.  

Okay, one thing that really bothers me when it comes to time-travel or "retelling the tale" fics that deal with the Wave Country arc:  Why is it that every time this is done the author feels that they have to "save" Haku from being killed for Zabuza?  Can't they just let him have his noble death in peace?  I mean, Haku's entire character revolved around his devotion to the guy, and his death is the climax of the Wave arc, without it you're just cheapening the whole thing.  And this may just be me, but I personally think that Haku would probably kill himself if he lived and Zabuza died.  I mean, Zabuza is his whole world, Haku even states that he _only_ lives for the guy.

Anyway, that's my pet peeve.


----------



## Nunally (Aug 7, 2007)

Something else to the list.




> i vaguely recall someone mentioning being bothered by changing naruto's trademark orange clothing. i'll admit this bothers me a tad too but what REALLY irks the crap out of me is when they replace it with some coat/jacket/shrit/pants/shorts or all with a nine-tailed fox stitched on it. can you imagine how ridiculous that would look? naruto's choice in clothing is pretty outlandish as it is but i doubt he'd walk around wearing that. naruto and kyuubi do not have a good relationship and probably never will. so why would he advertise his connection to his demon tenant?



Oh god, I know.

If I had the name Sakura and every. Fucking. Thing. I had was cherry blossom, I'd feel cheap and stupid.


----------



## Haggath (Aug 7, 2007)

Hananoshi said:


> Wife beater Sasuke. Why do people insist on him being a wife beater to Sakura?



Logical answer: They dislike Sasuke.

I was toying with the idea of characters whose nature had been seriously altered, and came up with the following definition - or, as I like to put it, a focusing.

*Pairings that are made without any kind of explanation.*

Normally, I don't complain about pairings. People can write Gaara/Hinata, Sasuke/Ino, yaoi, yuri, shouta, anything they like until their fingers fall off (I presume most of the writing is done via typing). If I don't like it, I don't have to read it.

This means, of course, that the pairing is the main pairing of the story. I lately read a story with the main pairing being Shino/OC (which was, actually, pretty good), with a side pairing of Kiba/Hinata. Don't misunderstand. I'm not a rapid supporter of any pairing (emphasis on rapid), and I could've tolerated the pairing just fine if it wasn't for one minor thing.

The pairing wasn't explained. The relationship wasn't explained. The feelings weren't explained. There was no explanation of Hinata getting over Naruto, which is in my opinion mandatory for all fics that pair Hinata with someone else than him. Nothing.

I came very close to stop reading the fic right there, but willed myself to continue on, reminding myself that it was just a side pairing.

Throwing around pairings, no matter how minor, and expecting your reader to just swallow them, is a very risky business.


----------



## Nunally (Aug 7, 2007)

> Throwing around pairings, no matter how minor, and expecting your reader to just swallow them, is a very risky business.



Same thing with Sakura. D: Until we get confirmation on whether she really doesn't love Sasuke in that way, it's logical to presume things haven't changed.

Or at least imo.



> Logical answer: They dislike Sasuke.



The fic I was reading was a SasuSaku fic.

Sasuke shoved a knife into her, and blamed her because Itachi came back or some shit like that. I rolled my eyes at how OOC that was.


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## Haggath (Aug 7, 2007)

Hananoshi said:


> Same thing with Sakura. D: Until we get confirmation on whether she really doesn't love Sasuke in that way, it's logical to presume things haven't changed.
> 
> Or at least imo.



Yes, that is the only thing we can do before given any more information on the matter. Your logic is sound.



			
				Hananoshi said:
			
		

> The fic I was reading was a SasuSaku fic.
> 
> Sasuke shoved a knife into her, and blamed her because Itachi came back or some shit like that. I rolled my eyes at how OOC that was.



Logical followup: They have a weak grasp on the characters' true nature, as you pointed out.


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## Nunally (Aug 7, 2007)

> Logical followup: They have a weak grasp on the characters' true nature, as you pointed out.



Perhaps.

I'm thinking of reading her other works to see if that's the case. (I think so)


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## Dogma (Aug 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted by Hananoshi
> 
> Same thing with Sakura. D: Until we get confirmation on whether she really doesn't love Sasuke in that way, it's logical to presume things haven't changed.
> 
> Or at least imo.



Hinata I understand, but Sakura I don't.

From what we've seen since Part 2 began (Manga!) Her feelings for him have somewhat withered into a "Ally" or "Comrade" kind of relationship.

So for the most part, I don't see alot of need for an establishment on the "NaruSaku" pairing (This one in particular, but there are a few others.) It's not that hard to believe why she'd get together with him in the end if some kind of timeskip had transpired. 

~I'm starting to get curious about the Saucegay x Sakura pairing. Though I completely hate his guts, I'm curious on what kind of method is used most when explaining how those two get together, and if it's OOC.


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## Nunally (Aug 7, 2007)

> Hinata I understand, but Sakura I don't.
> 
> From what we've seen since Part 2 began (Manga!) Her feelings for him have somewhat withered into a "Ally" or "Comrade" kind of relationship.
> 
> So for the most part, I don't see alot of need for an establishment on the "NaruSaku" pairing (This one in particular, but there are a few others.) It's not that hard to believe why she'd get together with him in the end if some kind of timeskip had transpired.



Team 7 threesomes would be so much simpler. xD NaruSakuSasu!



> ~I'm starting to get curious about the Saucegay x Sakura pairing. Though I completely hate his guts, I'm curious on what kind of method is used most when explaining how those two get together, and if it's OOC.



Saucegay x Sakura pairing...just find a rec list and read or you'll get more shit that usual. :/ With lots of side shipping, "SASUSAKU NARUHINA SHIKAINO/SHIKATEMA NEJITEN LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!11111"

I just happen to stumble upon good fics from looking at favorite's lists so I don't know the cruel, harsh world of SasuSaku crap fiction. (I lied. I write it. xD)

It may be my OTP but I'm not stupid.


----------



## Haggath (Aug 7, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> Hinata I understand, but Sakura I don't.
> 
> From what we've seen since Part 2 began (Manga!) Her feelings for him have somewhat withered into a "Ally" or "Comrade" kind of relationship.



I would not know, for I haven't read the manga. But since this does take place, I suppose that would be the further information needed on making more conclusions on their relationship, eh?

The temptation to read the manga grows with every passing day I spend here.



			
				Hananoshi said:
			
		

> Team 7 threesomes would be so much simpler. xD NaruSakuSasu!



Do I see potential for a flood of sappy love triangle fics? As if CloTi/Cleris wouldn't have been enough...

I kid, I kid; those kind of fics have probably been floating around for ages now.


----------



## Trelle (Aug 7, 2007)

Alacron said:


> I think I know that fic, Divergence by Nawaki right?  Great fic, too bad he didn't get too far before putting it on hiatus though.
> 
> 
> Man, the one thing that I hate more than these cliches is to look at my own fics and see just how many of them I'm guilty of myself.



Oh yes that was the fic! It's on hiatus? Eh, that's better than discontinued I guess, but really, that's how to twist a common fanfic plot. 



> Okay, one thing that really bothers me when it comes to time-travel or "retelling the tale" fics that deal with the Wave Country arc:  Why is it that every time this is done the author feels that they have to "save" Haku from being killed for Zabuza?  Can't they just let him have his noble death in peace?  I mean, Haku's entire character revolved around his devotion to the guy, and his death is the climax of the Wave arc, without it you're just cheapening the whole thing.  And this may just be me, but I personally think that Haku would probably kill himself if he lived and Zabuza died.  I mean, Zabuza is his whole world, Haku even states that he _only_ lives for the guy.
> 
> Anyway, that's my pet peeve.



Personally, I'm just tired about reading Wave Country. Heck, I barely made it through the actual canon, so it tries my patience to read through it again in a fic, unless they really change things up. Personally, I'd rather people come up with their own missions, but eh. 



Haggath said:


> Normally, I don't complain about pairings. People can write Gaara/Hinata, Sasuke/Ino, yaoi, yuri, shouta, anything they like until their fingers fall off (I presume most of the writing is done via typing). If I don't like it, I don't have to read it.
> 
> This means, of course, that the pairing is the main pairing of the story. I lately read a story with the main pairing being Shino/OC (which was, actually, pretty good), with a side pairing of Kiba/Hinata. Don't misunderstand. I'm not a rapid supporter of any pairing (emphasis on rapid), and I could've tolerated the pairing just fine if it wasn't for one minor thing.
> 
> ...



Are you talking about The Unexpected by Link and Luigi? If that's so, you probably will be satisfied if you read As I See It. Their stories follow some loose sort of continuity, you don't necessarily NEED to read the story, but if you want build up, it's there. IMO anyways. 

One could debate that Hinata never really like Naruto in that way. I mean sure if I write a HinataxNon-Naruto pairing I'll address it, but imo it's not that important. 

I agree with Hakanami, Sakura doesn't need an explanation of why she doesn't like Sasuke like that anymore.



Hakanami said:


> ~I'm starting to get curious about the Saucegay x Sakura pairing. Though I completely hate his guts, I'm curious on what kind of method is used most when explaining how those two get together, and if it's OOC.



Hrm, you know I've read SasuSaku stories, but not stories where they were the main paring and in canon (I've read plenty AUs). But usually Sakura backs off a bit and Sasuke opens up reluctantly. It also helps if he doesn't skip out on Konoha, and the Itachi thing takes a back seat. Now that I think of it, it's probably harder than most to explain away...


----------



## Dogma (Aug 7, 2007)

It's honestly just a crappy pairing in my eyes. 

I don't see anyway to take a big melodramatic crybaby like Sasuke, and a girl like Sakura and make them come together. 

What would be the reason he opens up to her? Something tramatic? The death of Itachi? What? 

Even in AU, they just don't seem like that kind of thing would go down. I'm more ready to believe NaruSasu before I believe that.

~NaruHina is not all that believable either to be perfectly honest. But I'll refrain from talking too much about the most like pairing around. 

But honestly, the only ones I do see happening is ShikaTema, and NaruSaku. The rest are probably over-exaggerations on loosely made messages by rabid fanbases who wanted to come together in some massive cluster of fandom.

Then wrote about it.

~As far as Haku is concerned, I've never read a story like that either (Leaning more and more that my general fic knowledge is actually pretty lacking. Which kinda sucks.) The time travel idea seems like it could work wonders, but it's probably been done in a really crappy light too.

Saving Haku and Zabuza is just a sign of that. Because fans lack the knowledge of just how important those two getting knocked was for Naruto and the others. 

~Still, I'd like to read/write a good time travel story. Where Naruto goes back in time, and is able to see what himself from the sideline, and then make good decisions on what to do, and what not to do.

(LIke that one mentioned where he killed Orochimaru right off the bat. That's good planning.)

Or if he went back to an already messed up future and altered it to become immensely powerful. Maybe killing off his present self, or pulling the strings from afar. Something evil, like... *Death Note* evil.

I'm sure in the hands of a good writer, that would be something else.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 8, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> Hinata I understand, but Sakura I don't.
> 
> From what we've seen since Part 2 began (Manga!) Her feelings for him have somewhat withered into a "Ally" or "Comrade" kind of relationship.
> 
> ...



*smacks Hakanami in the mouth for her own benefit* 

Sssshhh! Not so loud! Don't you know that this is dangerous territory for a NaruSaku fan?!?! If you continue to speak the truth and make pefect sense like you did with the post above, the SasuSaku and NaruHina shippers will come and shred you to pieces!


----------



## Tyrannos (Aug 8, 2007)

Time travel?   I'm afraid that only works for Sci Fi like Dr. Who or Star Trek.  

Haku / Zabuza stories could work, but only if they don't involve any known characters, except perhaps Gato.   Maybe a tale of their travels.

But it seems the majority of FFs are generally about pairings.   And people want to see something different than reading about someone's intrepretation of their favorite pairings over and over again.


----------



## munky_777 (Aug 8, 2007)

Any fic with Sakura x an Akatsuki member.


----------



## Haggath (Aug 8, 2007)

Trelle said:


> Are you talking about The Unexpected by Link and Luigi? If that's so, you probably will be satisfied if you read As I See It. Their stories follow some loose sort of continuity, you don't necessarily NEED to read the story, but if you want build up, it's there. IMO anyways.



I'll check that one out later. If it explains the pairings better, it's more than welcome.



			
				Trelle said:
			
		

> One could debate that Hinata never really like Naruto in that way. I mean sure if I write a HinataxNon-Naruto pairing I'll address it, but imo it's not that important.



Of course. The subjects of pairings are always debatable, but if one doesn't give any explanation whatsoever concerning how the pairing works and how they got together, something is lacking.


----------



## Dogma (Aug 8, 2007)

Haggath said:


> I'll check that one out later. If it explains the pairings better, it's more than welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. The subjects of pairings are always debatable, but if one doesn't give any explanation whatsoever concerning how the pairing works and how they got together, something is lacking.



I don't think so.

I said something about NaruSaku being like that if it's a post-timeskip kind of story, but the same thing applies to alot of other pairings should you implement more time in the story.

You don't need a convincing reason to explain why Shikamaru and Temari got together, because there's an obvious attratction between the two of them, that grows with time.

Nor Shikamaru and Ino because they've been friends for the longest time, and it's only understandable that if if Sasuke's out of the picture, she may just go ahead and go for him or Chouji. 

In oppose to Sai, which is what most people think.

Some others?

Neji and Tenten. Though they're reactions together aren't the most romantic, given the right situation, it's not completely farfetched to see the two of them together.

Same with Kiba and Hinata too. Why? Because they're teamates, and you can see a connection between the two. Kiba's looked out for Hinata, and if Naruto becomes unavailable or something like that then the two of them coming together isn't completely stupid, either.

The key is time, and simply knowing what your doing.

As a writer, I don't have to give you a convincing reason as to why those two decided to get together. I just have to make it look convincing. Much like how an artist doesn't have to draw some figure in particular, but instead just draw the picture.

My point is, if your a good enough writer. Then throwing a pairing out there without any kind of explanation is indeed possible. It's not suggested, because alot of people don't have the skill or situational support to pull it off but...

Is it really farfetched to write a story where the cast is in their late teen's and early twenties and have come together in time?

If it does, then that shows a lack of understanding on the readers part. That despite it being a ninja universe, that this kind of thing is very common if not somewhat expected.

~For spacial reasons, I left out my would be essay about why most fics are about pairings. Twas Lengthy.~


----------



## Haggath (Aug 8, 2007)

Hakanami said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> I said something about NaruSaku being like that if it's a post-timeskip kind of story, but the same thing applies to alot of other pairings should you implement more time in the story.



I'd chance 'a lot' to 'all', if we're handling the subject in this manner. Given the right amount of time, I'm confident that a skilled writer can gracefully pull off ANY pairing that has at least a little chance of happening. But, if we give it, say, ten years, that means one would give the pairings even MORE explanation, for ten years is enough for anyone to change, meaning that the previous bases for a relationship have very likely changed as well.



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> You don't need a convincing reason to explain why Shikamaru and Temari got together, because there's an obvious attratction between the two of them, that grows with time.
> 
> Nor Shikamaru and Ino because they've been friends for the longest time, and it's only understandable that if if Sasuke's out of the picture, she may just go ahead and go for him or Chouji.
> 
> Neji and Tenten. Though they're reactions together aren't the most romantic, given the right situation, it's not completely farfetched to see the two of them together.



Of course. Just like in the same fashion one doesn't need a convincing reason or long explanations for NaruHina, correct?



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> Same with Kiba and Hinata too. Why? Because they're teamates, and you can see a connection between the two. Kiba's looked out for Hinata, and if Naruto becomes unavailable or something like that then the two of them coming together isn't completely stupid, either.



Correct, it isn't completely stupid. I see that it is a possibility, and can think of ways those two would come together.

That's not, however, my point. Just because I can come up with reasons and explanations on my own, doesn't mean that A. Every reader is able to do that, B. Is willing to do that, and C. Can think in such a broad perspective when reading a fanfic. I wasn't able to come up with possible reasons for Hinata/Kiba pairing for several days, because my mind was set on entirely different pairings.

This is why I said it is a gamble. If the author counts on their readers to be able to swallow the pairing by just reading that they're in a happy relationship together, they are walking on thin ice, at least in my opinion. I have no idea how many readers are actually capable of doing something like that, and I wouldn't be the one to take such chances.

Yes, this is very likely just a problem between my ears. I acknowledge the possibility that the author doesn't really care for people who aren't able to think in a broad perspective, but I believe that seriously cuts down the number of their readers.



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> My point is, if your a good enough writer. Then throwing a pairing out there without any kind of explanation is indeed possible. It's not suggested, because alot of people don't have the skill or situational support to pull it off but...



My point exactly.



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> Is it really farfetched to write a story where the cast is in their late teen's and early twenties and have come together in time?
> 
> If it does, then that shows a lack of understanding on the readers part. That despite it being a ninja universe, that this kind of thing is very common if not somewhat expected.



*frowns* Again, you are correct. It is somewhat expected. However, if the base is this, then the fic is unlikely to be pairing-centred, and it will be easier to accept. Still, I wouldn't attempt this kind unless I considered myself a far more skilled writer than I am now.



			
				Hakanami said:
			
		

> ~For spacial reasons, I left out my would be essay about why most fics are about pairings. Twas Lengthy.~



If it is relevant to the discussion, I'd be happy to see it.


----------



## Trelle (Aug 8, 2007)

Is anyone else annoyed about people turning Haku into a girl just so she can be shipped with Naruto? I just don't understand why people do it (aversion to yaoi maybe?)

Ooh, lets not start talking about pairings. Just an invitation for trouble. XD
But if I have to say something, TenTen is the little black dress of Naruto. She  can go with anyone if you just give it some effort. Maybe because her character is so loosely defined.


Sakura x Akatsuki is kinda hard because it's tempting to go on the cliched "Sakura redeems everyone" kick. Which is a cop out and highly implausible. However, I'm reading Perception by Cynchick. It's a very well written ItaSaku. Although damnit if I'm not shipping DeiSaku in there. Sure the ItaSaku is steamy but Deidara and Sakura's interactions make me smile more. What's different about this if, is that the characters aren't redeemed, but Sakura is seeing them as flawed humans (insane flawed humans) instead of monsters devoted to pure evil. 



> Or if he went back to an already messed up future and altered it to become immensely powerful. Maybe killing off his present self, or pulling the strings from afar. Something evil, like... Death Note evil.
> 
> I'm sure in the hands of a good writer, that would be something else.



Time stories are always big mindfucks and when you get into things like killing off other selves, you are really in deep crap. Probably why people don't go there when writing. Not to mention that's one of the big no no's of time travel. Then again, people can write their own rules. It's just sticking to them and having it not fy your brain that's the kicker. 

It's why I will never try writing a time travel fic. Too confusing and I tend to think too much about things, which makes my head hurt. 

But, Reaper Nanashi has a threeshot called Timespan (I think), regarding time travel and the Yondaime.  It's pretty good. Search for it on FF.


----------



## Furious George (Aug 8, 2007)

*Hakanami:* Hmmm.... although I agree that most of the pairings you listed don't need that much of an explanation for them to become a reality in a fanfic... I am going to have to disagree with you on ShikaIno.

Despite it being one of the most popular pairings among fans, I just don't see them 'naturally' growing together like that. The thing that NejiTen, KibaHina, NaruSaku, and the others have that ShikaIno doesn't is a shred of canonical evidence (no matter how thin that thread is) that the two characters share a relationship that could possibly blossom into something more then just them being friends.... KibaHina is a very unlikely pairing canonically, but there were a few scenes in the Chuunin Exams arc that hint at an attraction on Kiba's part (sitting next to her in the bleachers, trying to save her from Kabuto, etc.). With Shikamaru and Ino, there are no such scenes that have strongly convinced me that their relationship is anything more then a friendship. They have shown no romantic attraction to each other, mutual or one-sided.... sure, there was that one scene where Ino comments that Shikamaru looked 'good' in a chuunin vest, but lets face it, such a profression from *Ino *isn't that credible. (She has more or less said every guy in the entire series looked good at some point or another... even Chouji.  )

Even if Sasuke and Sai were out of the picture, I honestly feel that is it more feasible that she would go for Chouji then Shikamaru! Canonically, she has shown much more of an interest in her fatter teammate then she has ever shown for the lazy one. It may take a little imagination to see it, but a possible pairing is definitely there. First, Ino and Chouji sat next to each other in the Chuunin Exam arc (like KibaHina). Second, there was that scene where Ino is giving Chouji advice on his weight and letting him know about her dieting habits. She then tells him that he should lose some weight if he wants to meet women before walking off.. really, what was the point of that scene? I don't know why Kishi did it, but an FF writer could easily draw romantic implications from that scene alone. Not only that, but an entire romanitc theme could be drawn from that scene... that theme being that Ino works out her superficial hang-ups by developing a romance with one of the most unattractive guys in Konoha. Third, Ino was the only one who was waiting at the hopsital for him when he came back from the Sasuke Retrieval mission.... that's a whole nother' fanfic right there. Fourth, Ino shows distress when Chouji gains back the weight he lost during that fight against the Sound Four member (this ties into my second point), saying that he looked good when he was thin. That's not even to mention that Ino and Chouji seemed to have devloped a relationship with each other during Part 2 where they are often around each other while Shikamaru appears to be the loner of their team. IMO, not only is InoCho a much more likely pairing then ShikaIno, but I wouldn't be surprised if Kishi actually made their romance canon in a "WTF?!?!" moment in the manga's future.

Plus, even if Sai Sasuke and Chouji were out of the picture.... >_>.....<_<..... I think Ino would be too afraid to go for Shikamaru with Temari's obivous interest in him. She might be bold when it comes to Sakura... but her decision to avoid the stronger teams in the Forest of Death shows that she isn't entirely stupid. 

That's not to say that I completely hate ShikaIno and would never read a fanfic that featured them as a pairing. I just feel that they would both need a helluva lot of development on the ff writer's part to make that pairing believeable. 



Trelle said:


> Ooh, lets not start talking about pairings. Just an invitation for trouble. XD



Yeah, your right. We should stop this soon... but its. so. hard.


----------



## Kage (Aug 8, 2007)

Haggath said:


> The pairing wasn't explained. The relationship wasn't explained. The feelings weren't explained.
> Throwing around pairings, no matter how minor, and expecting your reader to just swallow them, is a very risky business.



actually i prefer that then a half-assed explanation. ex. "she finally got over naruto and decided to move on" and it would simply be left at that. wtf?  but i do see your point. to me it's a lose situation either way if i don't find the pairing believable at all. 



			
				Cyckness said:
			
		

> Sssshhh! Not so loud! Don't you know that this is dangerous territory for a NaruSaku fan?!?! *If you continue to speak the truth and make pefect sense like you did with the post above, the SasuSaku and NaruHina shippers will come and shred you to pieces!*


LOL it's funny because it's true. and though i am a naruhina fan i do understand(and accept) reason and logic. so you need not worry about me 

though in my opinion sasusaku fans rule in that department 



Trelle said:


> Is anyone else annoyed about people turning Haku into a girl just so she can be shipped with Naruto? I just don't understand why people do it (aversion to yaoi maybe?)


most likely a aversion to yaoi. same reason for the female naruto.


> Ooh, lets not start talking about pairings. Just an invitation for trouble. XD



for trouble? whatever do you mean? 


> But, Reaper Nanashi has a threeshot called Timespan (I think), regarding time travel and the Yondaime.  It's pretty good. Search for it on FF.



i second this recommendation.


----------



## Dogma (Aug 8, 2007)

Trelle said:


> Is anyone else annoyed about people turning Haku into a girl just so she can be shipped with Naruto? I just don't understand why people do it (aversion to yaoi maybe?)



I suppose I never really saw Haku as a guy anyways. Not that I particularily enjoyed that arc apart from the last episode, but I suppose because of lack of caring and/or lack of proper explanation why he was really effeminate like that.

It just didn't bother me. 

So reading a fic about him, which I'd very seldomly do anyways, in which he's a girl wouldn't bug me too much. As long as it helps the fic in some way shape or form, then I'm willing to go with it.

Shipping him with Naruto, now that's just a stupid idea.



> Ooh, lets not start talking about pairings. Just an invitation for trouble. XD
> But if I have to say something, TenTen is the little black dress of Naruto. She  can go with anyone if you just give it some effort. Maybe because her character is so loosely defined.



Yes, she is. For that exact reason too.



> Sakura x Akatsuki is kinda hard because it's tempting to go on the cliched "Sakura redeems everyone" kick. Which is a cop out and highly implausible. However, I'm reading Perception by Cynchick. It's a very well written ItaSaku. Although damnit if I'm not shipping DeiSaku in there. Sure the ItaSaku is steamy but Deidara and Sakura's interactions make me smile more. What's different about this if, is that the characters aren't redeemed, but Sakura is seeing them as flawed humans (insane flawed humans) instead of monsters devoted to pure evil.



Nope... I don't care how much you try to explain it. I honestly don't see how that could happen. It's still about as believable as SasuSaku. 

Itachi, Deidara, and Sasuke just don't seem like they're very romantic. Or really even care about that kind of thing.

So it'd take alot of work before I can read it and not laugh at how absurd it sounds.

Though let it be noted, despite the fact that I'm as stubborn as an Ox, I'll try to understand some reasoning as to why it's possible.  



> Time stories are always big mindfucks and when you get into things like killing off other selves, you are really in deep crap. Probably why people don't go there when writing. Not to mention that's one of the big no no's of time travel. Then again, people can write their own rules. It's just sticking to them and having it not fy your brain that's the kicker.
> 
> It's why I will never try writing a time travel fic. Too confusing and I tend to think too much about things, which makes my head hurt.
> 
> But, Reaper Nanashi has a threeshot called Timespan (I think), regarding time travel and the Yondaime.  It's pretty good. Search for it on FF.



Maybe, I want one that does fry your brain but in a good way. Something that's just really well written, and somewhat evil.

Like I said before, give me a *Death Note* evil, and I'll read it.



Haggath said:


> I'd chance 'a lot' to 'all', if we're handling the subject in this manner. Given the right amount of time, I'm confident that a skilled writer can gracefully pull off ANY pairing that has at least a little chance of happening. But, if we give it, say, ten years, that means one would give the pairings even MORE explanation, for ten years is enough for anyone to change, meaning that the previous bases for a relationship have very likely changed as well.



Not entirely true.

Though you will have to make some mentioning of this or that. an explanation, just doesn't sound right.



> Of course. Just like in the same fashion one doesn't need a convincing reason or long explanations for NaruHina, correct?



Essentially, though I probably won't buy it.


> That's not, however, my point. Just because I can come up with reasons and explanations on my own, doesn't mean that A. Every reader is able to do that, B. Is willing to do that, and C. Can think in such a broad perspective when reading a fanfic. I wasn't able to come up with possible reasons for Hinata/Kiba pairing for several days, because my mind was set on entirely different pairings.



That's not something you can control though, so why should the quality of my story suffer because of close-mindedness on someone elses part.

I mean, I've said all up and down this thread I don't like Sasuke, nor any pairing that involves him. 

Yet should the author of a SasuSaku fit make a special explanation, just for me because I think this way?

No, not at all.



> This is why I said it is a gamble. If the author counts on their readers to be able to swallow the pairing by just reading that they're in a happy relationship together, they are walking on thin ice, at least in my opinion. I have no idea how many readers are actually capable of doing something like that, and I wouldn't be the one to take such chances.



Your right on the fact that it's a gamble, but.

Writers should show, not tell. 

I still don't think I have to tell you anything, depending on the cirumstance. I have to show it, in oppose to mentioning it. And only if it happens to be relavent to the story itself. 

It's not like I need to explain a side Naru/Kiba, or Neji/Tenten if it has no relavance to the story. But if it's the main pairing, then I obviously need to show something, (if it's relavent.)



> Yes, this is very likely just a problem between my ears. I acknowledge the possibility that the author doesn't really care for people who aren't able to think in a broad perspective, but I believe that seriously cuts down the number of their readers.



Midway through this post, I started to realize I may just be biased towards the word "explanation." Which is bad, because I could have written all this crap down, for nothing more then a simple misconception.

Nevertheless, I still should probably show what I mean when I say, you should show it, in oppose to telling it, if it's important.



> From my own story, because I couldn't think of any other on hnd references.
> 
> _Eventually, I gave up on Sasuke, even after when I knew he'd be back arbitrailly. I started a relationship with Shikamaru. Our close relationship as teamates, and the ties we've had since we were children proving to be an asset in our coming together. I suppose my willingness to get together with him is proof that I've become a more mature person.
> 
> ...



This is a monologue from Ino, to express how time has changed, and where INo was at that moment in time.

She said this, in this manner, because she's describing how things are at the beginning of her portion of the story. But this is also something that's tied into the very end of her portion in the story.

Her relationship with Shikamaru isn't that important because they're together, but because of what it means because they are together.

Whether the reader can digest the fact that Ino and Shikamaru are seeing eachother at maybe nineteen to twenty years of age, is really not that important, if there's a reason behind them getting together. 



> If it is relevant to the discussion, I'd be happy to see it.



Honestly, I kind of feel like I chased my own tail several times in this entire thing. So I'll refrain from brining that up, until it's mentioned again.

It's not relevant to this particular discussion anyways.


----------



## Nunally (Aug 8, 2007)

> Nor Shikamaru and Ino because they've been friends for the longest time, and it's only understandable that if if Sasuke's out of the picture, she may just go ahead and go for him or Chouji.



Actually, I don't buy the ShikaIno argument.  Only for the reason I think I'd have more difficulty picturing myself with a longtime, family friend/best friend(?)/brother from another mother, so I personally don't believe it. :/



> If you continue to speak the truth and make pefect sense like you did with the post above, the SasuSaku and NaruHina shippers will come and shred you to pieces!



D:< Lemme at 'em!! 'Cept for NaruHina. Me no likie.



> Though let it be noted, despite the fact that I'm as stubborn as an Ox, I'll try to understand some reasoning as to why it's possible.



 Anything is possible if the circumstances change.

But really, it isn't possible now. xD Writers only make it seem so with their good fic magic.


----------



## Alacron (Aug 10, 2007)

Okay, here's a few that really bother me whenever I see them, and each of them have to do with Naruto's relationship with the rest of village.

First off, I don't know where so many fic authors got this idea, but Naruto was never abused by any of the villagers.  He was not beaten, called a "demon child" or any variant thereof, and most definitely mobs of villagers never chased him down with pitchforks, torches, broken beer bottles etc etc.  I know that they think it makes Naruto more angsty this way, but Naruto is not about angst, that's Sasuke's, Neji's, Haku's and those guys' department.  Naruto is the one who is supposed to beat them up and make them realize that just going around being angsty is not doing them any good.  Naruto is the one who no matter what happens will laugh, smile, and get off his ass to try again.

Also, I am sick and tired of Naruto being referred to as wearing a mask.  You know what I'm talking about, his "happiness mask."  It sounds like an alluring thing to write about, "on the surface Naruto is a happy, loud, and playful boy, but deep down he's a hurt, emotional soul."  But no, deep down, Naruto is a happy, loud and playful boy.  What you see is what you get with him, so stop trying to make him something he's not.

Another thing I hate about the mask thing is how often its used in super!Naruto fics so that they can follow canon almost completely while changing a few parts here and there to make Naruto look cooler.  Yeesh.

Finally, I hate it when some character (canon or OC) has some internal monologue about how the villagers are closed minded fools, or they see Naruto as a hero for holding the Kyuubi, or some variation of that.  I just think that this is a real cheap way of making that character a "good guy."  Sure they could have gone into some sort of depth, had the character start out like everybody else but eventually change the way they think, but instead they just take the short way out.


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## Dogma (Aug 10, 2007)

Alacron said:


> Also, I am sick and tired of Naruto being referred to as wearing a mask.  You know what I'm talking about, his "happiness mask."  It sounds like an alluring thing to write about, "on the surface Naruto is a happy, loud, and playful boy, but deep down he's a hurt, emotional soul."  But no, deep down, Naruto is a happy, loud and playful boy.  *What you see is what you get with him*, so stop trying to make him something he's not.



Somewhat.

I'm not sure what kind of way the authors is portaying this mask ideal, but I don't see the harm in it if it's telling the truth.

I used to think Naruto was an incompetent retard, and your standard underdog shounen hero. However he's shown multiple times (mainly the end of the Sasuke Retrieval arc,) That there's alot more to his character than meets the eye.

Do I think Naruto's pretty smart, and able to do alot more then he puts on? Yeah, he probably is in some way shape or form a genius. Who just isn't always consistant (Digressing to save space.)

But do I think he puts on a facade? Somewhat.

He tries to be happy at times, when he's really not. But it's all indicative of the situation. Like when he first saw Sakura when he was unable to recover Sasuke. He smiled then, despite probably feeling like crying on the inside. 

Showed his happy "mask" (as you so dubbed it.)

However, if the author doesn't have a good reason to even make mention of these "masks." Then it's probably a load of misplaced crap. And I'm pretty confident that when it's executed it's done in a sub-par way anyways.

But that doesn't mean it's worth, writing off as a whole.


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## Trelle (Aug 10, 2007)

EDIT: And once again Hakanami (Dogma?) says basically what I want to say, in a consise and coherent way. LOL! 

I agree with pretty much everything except this: 





> Also, I am sick and tired of Naruto being referred to as wearing a mask. You know what I'm talking about, his "happiness mask." It sounds like an alluring thing to write about, "on the surface Naruto is a happy, loud, and playful boy, but deep down he's a hurt, emotional soul." *But no, deep down, Naruto is a happy, loud and playful boy. What you see is what you get with him,* so stop trying to make him something he's not.



I agree with you: he doesn't have this elaborate mask of happiness to cover the deep well of angst that lies beneath, but Sexy no Jutsu? Painting the Hokage monument? Acting a fool in class? Clearly cries for attention. 

What's telling is in the beginning of the series, when Iruka tells Naruto he won't be able to go home until finishes cleaning up, Naruto snaps back, "So what? It's not like I have anyone to go home to."

To me, that hints that not everything was happy and peachy in the life of Uzumaki Naruto. Heck, Iruka (and Mizuki, it was that obvious apparently) recognized that he acted the same when he was hurting from being alone after his parents died in the Kyuubi attack. 

I think that's the biggest key to what, if nothing else, the village did to Naruto. They ostracized him. Sure they probably didn't beat him up and down the Hokage Tower, but he still was hurt on some level by the actions. Kid wants desperately to be acknowledged and at the start of the series, he didn't care if he had to resort to doing something "horrible" to achieve his desire. It's like the first thing the comes out of his mouth in both the manga and the anime.

(Which someone could use as a platform for a dark!Naruto fic. Imagine where Naruto would have ended up if the Mizuki incident went differently, and Iruka didn't acknowledge him as human? He still probably wouldn't drown in angst, but ooh imo, he'd be very angry boy for quite a while.) 

I can totally picture a scene pre-series, where Naruto is walking down the street. He comes across a mother with her daughter in two. The mother sees Naruto and grabs the little girl's wrist, drawing her closer. They abruptly turn and walk across the street, the mother shooting wary glances at the blonde as they walk past, having successfully gone about their way without having to come too close to the jinchuuriki. 

Also, the fact that Naruto was able to emphasize with Gaara in some way is proof that yeah, he's probably had his lows. 

I guess it's about how the person wishes to write about it. Sure, like you said, Naruto isn't Sasuke, Neji, or even Gaara. He's not going to spend chapters angsting about his bad situation. He'll bounce back and keep trying, because he doesn't know the meaning of the word "quit". 

But the kid will have moments when he doesn't have a smile on his face. And if it's pre-series Naruto he'll make a big show about being obnoxious as hell because that's the only way he's ever gotten attention. I think that, in and of itself, is a mask of sorts. 

Wow, I didn't know I had a Naruto essay in me. Normally, I find him impossible to write for. So feel free to disagree with me


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## Dogma (Aug 10, 2007)

Trelle said:


> EDIT: And once again Hakanami (Dogma?) says basically what I want to say, in a consise and coherent way. LOL!



Off topic for a minute or two:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Yep, I forgot I applied for a name change about a month ago, and when I logged on earlier I found that it'd been changed to this. Figured it'd be amusing enough to change my ailias every once in awhile.

Plus, I just happen to like the ring of the word "Dogma." And the irony behind the meaning at times.

~Still got to figure out what would make a good set. Might go with a complete FLCL, or a Lovely Complex one. Or something new altogether, like Gundam or School Rumble. 

I honestly can't make up my mind :amazed


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## Haggath (Aug 10, 2007)

+Dogma+ said:


> That's not something you can control though, so why should the quality of my story suffer because of close-mindedness on someone elses part.
> 
> I mean, I've said all up and down this thread I don't like Sasuke, nor any pairing that involves him.
> 
> ...



I understand your point. If there is something blatant, however, that raises the ire of, say, ninety percent of the possible readers, I believe that demands solving or further explanation.

I realize, of course, that this is extremely unlikely.



			
				Dogma said:
			
		

> Your right on the fact that it's a gamble, but.
> 
> Writers should show, not tell.
> 
> I still don't think I have to tell you anything, depending on the cirumstance. I have to show it, in oppose to mentioning it. And only if it happens to be relavent to the story itself.



Fair enough, I suppose. I really can't argue against gambling if you base your argument on that point.



			
				Dogma said:
			
		

> She said this, in this manner, because she's describing how things are at the beginning of her portion of the story. But this is also something that's tied into the very end of her portion in the story.
> 
> Her relationship with Shikamaru isn't that important because they're together, but because of what it means because they are together.
> 
> Whether the reader can digest the fact that Ino and Shikamaru are seeing eachother at maybe nineteen to twenty years of age, is really not that important, if there's a reason behind them getting together.



In my book, that monologue counts for an explanation. In all honesty, I would've settled with even shorter explanation, even if it would've been 'telling' instead of 'showing' - I'm not that picky.

However, that story has Shika/Ino as its main pairing, doesn't it? I doubt you would've gone into that much depth if it had only been a side pairing. How would've you written it, had you concentrated on some other pairing(s)?



			
				Dogma said:
			
		

> Honestly, I kind of feel like I chased my own tail several times in this entire thing.



You and me both, then.

EDIT: My brain is too lazy to start arguing with the point Alacron has brought up, but know that I disagree with you. Mostly my possible arguments consist of the same reasons Trelle and Dogma have brought up already, so that's another reason for me to stay silent.


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## Dogma (Aug 10, 2007)

Haggath said:


> In my book, that monologue counts for an explanation. In all honesty, I would've settled with even shorter explanation, even if it would've been 'telling' instead of 'showing' - I'm not that picky.



I wasn't sure what an explanation would count as in your book, so again the whole post could have been the result of something getting misconstrued. 



> However, that story has Shika/Ino as its main pairing, doesn't it? I doubt you would've gone into that much depth if it had only been a side pairing. How would've you written it, had you concentrated on some other pairing(s)?


 
Nope, not at all. It's not even that important pairing wise.

But it's really important to that particular chapter, and is understandable later on in the story. (If I still worked on it.) But if any of that stuff wasn't highly relevant, then I would have probably barely even mentioned it.

~Edit~
If I concentrated on side pairings, I'd probably take a good look at what makes things common between those two characters. Really take a look at all the possible conversations, and situations relationship wise. Find something interesting to a conversation, or a monologue and then develop the plot from there.

I had another love triangle story where Shikamaru is trying to understand the affection from both Temari and Ino. Using a book that's been handed down from generation to generation of the Nara clan. Seeing as it's seemingly been written by fate that a Nara will marry a troublesome woman.

You get the plot, the characters, and then really focus on the relationships and common dialog that you can establish throughout the story. That's probably one of the most basic steps to writing anything. Because if your dialog and characterization suffers, then the project as a whole will as well.



> EDIT: My brain is too lazy to start arguing with the point Alacron has brought up, but know that I disagree with you. Mostly my possible arguments consist of the same reasons Trelle and Dogma have brought up already, so that's another reason for me to stay silent.



I honestly thought this would have been another disagreement with something I said.


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## Furious George (Aug 10, 2007)

*Alacron*: Ditto what Trelle and "Dogma" ( ) have said. While I would definitely argue that Naruto being happy-go-lucky and hard-headed is merely a mask (because it isn't. It is a genuine and *prominent* part of his personality), but you would have a tough time on your hand proving that Naruto doesn't have a dark and angsty side to him. The problem that ff writers have is that Naruto never stays "emo" for more then a second before his more dominant and admirable side (dedicated, never giving, cheerful) takes over. THIS is why Neji, Gaara, Haku, and other whiny crybabies in the series change when they come in contact with Naruto.... it is because they definitely see themselves in Naruto's dark side and yet they see within Naruto the power to overcome his (and by proxy, their own) dark side. It is practically the point of the series. 

So, IMO, whenever *current time* Naruto (if it the Naruto from the past, it is more forgivable) is depicted as this moppy and depressed kid who cuts himself and spends days crying over Sasuke, the depiction is OOC. At the same time, if we don't get a peek into Naruto's darker qulatities and bouts with acceptance, then the depiction is also OOC. It is for this reason that I feel that Naruto is hands down the most difficult character to properly write for.... and personally I have never attempted to write for him as of yet because I am afraid that I will fuck it up. lol.


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## Haggath (Aug 10, 2007)

+Dogma+ said:


> Nope, not at all. It's not even that important pairing wise.



Ah, my apologizes then for the misunderstanding.



			
				+Dogma+ said:
			
		

> I honestly thought this would have been another disagreement with something I said.



Hmmh, yes, I see now that it can be interpreted that way in the beginning. *chuckles* But no, I'll steer clear from debates altogether until I feel a bit more prepared.


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## Dogma (Aug 10, 2007)

Cyckness said:


> *Alacron*: Ditto what Trelle and "Dogma" ( ) have said.
> * It is for this reason that I feel that Naruto is hands down the most difficult character to properly write for*.... and personally I have never attempted to write for him as of yet because I am afraid that I will fuck it up. lol.


~For the record, you could still say "Hak" if you don't like the name change, y'know. :amazed

That is pretty much dead on. He very much is, and that's why I'm starting to get alot more forgiving when people make him OOC.

Naruto, Shikamaru, Sakura, Neji and Shino are probably the top five hardest characters to write, because there's a limit to how much creative license you can take with their personalities.

Naruto's very happy, but at the same time is not as shallow as some of the others when it comes to his overall personality.

Shikamaru is very lazy, but has more then once shown that he's quite competent and has more to his character then the word "Troublesome." 

And Neji and Shino have had so little development on their personalitites that you can only feel that they are just stern, silent types. Which for all we know could be completely wrong.

Sakura is somewhat easier because she's had alot of time to be established, and is that "coming of age" kind of character. However, she's got alot of periods where you don't know what's the next best thing to do with her, and that causes conflicts, and bad decisions.

So when you look at all that, though it may be easier to write an emo crybaby like Sasuke, writing a *good* version of those characters. Thusly why you have to try and be alot more forgiving when people screw up on them.

Because in most cases, when somethings OOC, you can give examples and tell them to look at a few other fics with that character as the main attraction. But if it's possible that it's done incorrectly, then what do you go to then?

Edit: Sounds reasonable Haggath, but if you've got something you disagree with then just say it anyways.

Either you'll be write, or you'll understand something better then befre anyways.

By the way, I answered that other question in an edit of the previous post.


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## Haggath (Aug 10, 2007)

+Dogma+ said:


> Edit: Sounds reasonable Haggath, but if you've got something you disagree with then just say it anyways.
> 
> Either you'll be write, or you'll understand something better then before anyways.



Naturally.



			
				+Dogma+ said:
			
		

> By the way, I answered that other question in an edit of the previous post.



Yes, I see it now. Sounds indeed, like you said, pretty basic. Reasonable.


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## Furious George (Aug 10, 2007)

+Dogma+ said:


> ~For the record, you could still say "Hak" if you don't like the name change, y'know. :amazed
> 
> That is pretty much dead on. He very much is, and that's why I'm starting to get alot more forgiving when people make him OOC.
> 
> ...



Aye. So true.

I would probably include Temari into that "hard to write for" equation as well. Too often do I see people write this strange mixture of Ino, Sakura, and forty-five pounds of "bitch"... calling it Temari. It sorta gets to me when she is depicted as this evil and loud woman, because that isn't who she is at all. Like Naruto Shikamaru and Neji, Temari has shown depth to her that goes beyond her particular cliche (Naruto is more then a Goku type, Shikamaru is more then a lazy type, and Neji is more then a silent type), so its hard to get a proper handle on her. But then again, I am a TemariTard so it is kind of hard to make a characterization of her that pleases me. 

The only time I am not forgiving of OOCness in Naruto fanfiction is when I see no resemblence to the character that Kishimoto has created at all. There is no excuse for an ff writer to not take into account the personalities that have clearly been shown to us by either the manga or the anime itself.... I am learning to let go of the minor OOCness in most fics though.


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## Nunally (Aug 10, 2007)

> Sakura is somewhat easier because she's had alot of time to be established, and is that "coming of age" kind of character. However, she's got alot of periods where you don't know what's the next best thing to do with her, and that causes conflicts, and bad decisions.



Dx Totally. Like, where they make her do anything for Sasuke-- like betraying her village. I can picture that, and then again, I can't. You don't know where her stance is. Dx


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## Dogma (Aug 10, 2007)

Hananoshi said:


> Dx Totally. Like, where they make her do anything for Sasuke-- like betraying her village. I can picture that, and then again, I can't. You don't know where her stance is. Dx



I can imagine her betraying her village somewhat in a pre-time skip situation (one of those fics where they try and investigate what would have happened if she went with Sasuke. Never read one, but I'm sure it's been done.)

But post time skip, or even after the Sasuke Retrieval arc, I just can't see it happening at all. 

I just think people like the emo boy alittle too much, and seeing as Sakura is also close to him, and isn't Naruto, they use her anyways.

~Further talk of this would result in some way, shape, or form of me calling SasuSaku a joke.



Cyckness said:


> Aye. So true.
> 
> I would probably include Temari into that "hard to write for" equation as well. Too often do I see people write this strange mixture of Ino, Sakura, and forty-five pounds of "bitch"... calling it Temari. It sorta gets to me when she is depicted as this evil and loud woman, because that isn't who she is at all. Like Naruto Shikamaru and Neji, Temari has shown depth to her that goes beyond her particular cliche (Naruto is more then a Goku type, Shikamaru is more then a lazy type, and Neji is more then a silent type), so its hard to get a proper handle on her. But then again, I am a TemariTard so it is kind of hard to make a characterization of her that pleases me.



Well if your a Temaritard, then it's a lost cause. Because no matter how good the author is, tards love the real thing more.

Honestly, I've never found it particularly had to write Temari. She's the more "vixen" like character, who you can take alot of liberties with, while still giving her that feminine charm. Inversely, you can also make her a very proud and bossy depending on the situation. There's a wide range of possibilities with her, as long as you keep her archetype in mind. 



> The only time I am not forgiving of OOCness in Naruto fanfiction is when I see no resemblence to the character that Kishimoto has created at all. There is no excuse for an ff writer to not take into account the personalities that have clearly been shown to us by either the manga or the anime itself.... I am learning to let go of the minor OOCness in most fics though.



When Naruto is a ramen loving retard.


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## Alacron (Aug 10, 2007)

At first I was going to go into a long rant about how I'm right and you guys are wrong, then I reread my post.

Blarg...

I suppose that I need to clarify, and I believe an example can do wonders for making a point.  If you can stomach it, try reading Bloody Whiskers


In this fic, which basically retells the events of the bit for bit, Naruto is still at the bottom of the class.  But he's not actually stupid or ignorant, oh no, he's one of the smartest people in the class, he just _pretends_ to be stupid, so that people won't notice how powerful he is.  He also doesn't _really_ have a crush on Sakura, he just pretends to, as a part of his "mask."  Pretty much every time she talks, Naruto (ie, the author) will go into an internal monologue about how stupid and how much of a dumb bitch she is.  Pretty much the same thing with everybody throughout the fic, it's like a big MST of everything the author doesn't like about the series.  The difference is that it's not funny, it doesn't even attempt to be funny.  It's just malicious.

So, to clarify my position, this is the type of "mask" that I object to when it comes to Naruto.  Fake smiles for the sake of others?  In character.  Being loud to get attention?  In character.  Pretending to be stupid and unskilled when when in fact he is a highly talented, very deadly, homicidal psychopath?  Not only out of character, but just plain stupid if you ask me.


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## Furious George (Aug 10, 2007)

Alacron said:


> At first I was going to go into a long rant about how I'm right and you guys are wrong, then I reread my post.
> 
> Blarg...
> 
> ...




Ah.... gotcha. You should hvae been that specific from the beginning. I agree.  

And that fic sounds terrible....


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## Aideko (Aug 10, 2007)

- OOC is really annoying to me. I know it's that way for almost anyone, but I'm really picky about it. Except in crack fics, I have a low tolerance for it. 
- I hate glorifying characters, making them out to be perfect, even if it's a character I like. 
- AU's really get on my nerves as well as many authors use them as excuses for making a characters OOC. I *loathe* high school fics; I'm so sick of seeing them all over FF.net. 
- Also, it irks me to see the author mixing Japanese with English. I don't have a problem with suffixes, but there are authors out there who replace English words with Japanese, or they use full phrases and sentences that the readers can't even understand.
- I don't like smut/lemon either, especially when it's used as the whole plot of a fic. I find the development of a relationship much more interesting, which is why I also don't like seeing the characters confess their undying love by chapter two either.


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## natwel (Feb 5, 2008)

-A bad boy turns good
-A girl turns down marrying for money, for marrying for love (not possible)


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## Ninjaguiden (Feb 6, 2008)

Naruto becomming extremely powerfull for some lame reason (Although omni does this very well, atleast he puts some form of limit to his power...).


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## HiNaTaRoX! (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm sick and tired of the Character A-gets-dumped-by-Character B-then-runs-to-Character C-for-comfort clich?. So annoying! Too many good Naruto stories are destroyed because they use this terribly over-used plotline.


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## InfallibleImam (Feb 6, 2008)

I don't like love affairs in general... Hence why my protagonist will be asexual.


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## Yagami_Nadare (Apr 18, 2008)

Shit that was amazing! Kudos!


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## Yagami_Nadare (Apr 18, 2008)

Yeah, I agree with that. The Golden Fox was definately not my fav mostly becuase I'm very picky about style, grammer, SPELLING and so yeah, that threw me off. But 'Team 8' is really really really good! You _should_ check it out.

Do it!


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## j0hnni_ (Apr 18, 2008)

I don't like fics that start with naruto superpowerful when he is only 12 or something. 

Also I don't like NaruxHarem generaly (for ex. omni does it well since he takes his time exploring the relationships) and i really don't like when he has many wifes (girlfriends is one thing, but wifes...)

Other one that really pisses me off is naruto getting tails and fox hears or thansforming into a fox.

Btw, I like fics when Naruto is powerful but not when he becomes powerful without doing  a thing. I like when he is becoming powerful and i can 'see' him training and progressing (and at a believeble rhythm).

I also don't like when sasuke hates naruto without no apparent reason, just because naruto is more powerful than he is. Of course he is jealous but authors describe sasuke's hate for naruto something close to his hate for itachi (just because naruto has more power!!). I think it's stretching it to far...

And that's what I can remember...


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## Lawrachan (Apr 18, 2008)

Anytime someone has the Kyuubi call Naruto "Kit". He hates humans why in the world would he use a human word? Of course this goes along with many a fic that has the Kyuubi become some super sensei. I got no problem with him being at most helpful but first and foremost he's an evil monster who happily rampages around the countryside. (In my own I try to have the Kyuubi as more a neutral entity who likes to give and take.)

Masked Naruto does make sense within canon. There are many times throughout the series where he stops acting like an idiot and says something that surprises everyone with how smart it is. Of course everything in moderation. He isn't a super genius, he isn't some super depressed angsty emo kid, and he isn't an overly happy ecstasy driven idiot. It's the extremes that cause the characters to become boring or worse hated.

Sasuke being an evil asshole at the beginning. He and Naruto are, up to Itachi's second use of the tsukuyomi, rivals and grudging friends. If in canon Sasuke had been a total ass all the time I doubt Naruto would be bothering trying to find him even if he did make a promise.

Everyone being super accepting of anything and everything. A lot of weird things happen in Narutoverse but that doesn't mean everyone reacts in positive ways to them.

Throwing in entire japanese sentences, if I put one in my own i'm sure to explain it and use only very common phrases. I'm looking to read a story not go to a language lesson.

My hugest most biggest peeve is not having characters evolve over time. Static worlds are boring and uninteresting.

Oh and solving problems rather than creating problems. Solving problems is for a big climatic end or epilogue, the normal story needs to be about conflict.


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## southdakotaboy (Apr 18, 2008)

I really dislike it when they just kill off a character just to get Naruto angry. I know it is a legitimate story tool, but this is the over done cliches thread.


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## fortuna16 (Jan 4, 2009)

the angry mob which blatently breaks the 3rd rule by yelling "Let's kill the demon boy"
If that really happened in canon, even Naruto would be able to figure out he's the vessel for the kyuubi


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## Ninjaguiden (Jan 5, 2009)

fortuna16 said:


> the angry mob which blatently breaks the 3rd rule by yelling "Let's kill the demon boy"
> If that really happened in canon, even Naruto would be able to figure out he's the vessel for the kyuubi



It goes in the same category as the non-beliving father/friends/etc when a character has a strange experiance: "You saw the village burn in your dreams? Ha ha! That can't be real you silly boy/girl!" I'm always like: "Just friggin listen to him/her for once! Why would they make that up?? You live in a world of magic and deamons, why can't you belive in other wierd stuff?? Arrrgh!"


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## vkx (Mar 22, 2009)

Hey, you guys probably don't know who I am, but I'd like to throw in my hated cliches.

1. Romance Fanfics where the two characters are madly in love with each other right at the beginning. Seriously? A relationship needs to BUILD. In almost every romance fanfic I've read, the couple's making out in the next paragraph...

2. Super-Special-Awesome characters. Any character being godly is a big one. Especailly made up characters. I'd understand making one powerful charactger, but don't make him so godly... it'll get boring. Fast.

3. Over exaggerated attitudes. We all know Sakura likes to hit Naruto, so stop writing fics with her beating the shit out of him for everything he says.

4. "This fic will have the most ACTION EVAR!!!11!11one!!!!1eleven!! Oh wait, never mind it's just another ROMANCE!" Nuff' said.

5. Made up characters being related to existing characters. This one's okay if it's done right, but I hate it when people make their own characters become best friends brother/sister with their favorite characters

6. Naruto hating Sakura and being better off without her, making her sad and emo and whatnot. I'm not a NaruSaku fan, but that just gets annoying when you see it being done a million times.

7. Enemies explaining their entire plan in a three paragraph monolauge. If it were me, I'dve bitch slapped him/her while they were half way through the evil laugh.

8. Shino having little to no importance. This is bias, being that I'm [obviously] a Shino fan.

9. "And they all lived happily ever after! THE END!" I'd like a bad ending here and there, where the hero doesn't win the girl or save the world... throw in some variety.

10. Authors constantly begging readers to review. I already know what to do, god damn it.


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## Akumaru13 (Mar 22, 2009)

Things I don't mind in fanfics:

Crossovers (depends on what Naruto's being crossovered with books/other animes: MR, Wolf's Rain...) , Crack-Pairings (I myself like some crack pairings), College fics (if there are any...), AU's (again depending if the story's well written, I'll read it...), Akatsuki-centric fics (or member centric in general)


Things I find annoying in fics:
Godlike (unoriginal) OC's- No just no...
Yaoi fics- I just ignore those other fics but if the author calls their pairings cannon...It's slash not yaoi.


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## CharLots (Mar 25, 2009)

One thing I hate to see in fic is any of the characters speaking like American high schoolers - it's just so freakin' annoying, I stop reading immediately if I pick that up.

Another thing I hate is sloopy characterisation for minor characters. "I like bugs!" (Shino) "I'm a ditzy slut!" (Ino) "I'm hungry!" (Choji) "IT'S TROUBLESOME" (Shikamaru). I mean, of course you have to include the characters' little particularities, but it doesn't have to be so goddamn caricatural, especially in dialogue. 

One last pet peeve - I know many people do this, but I HATE it when Sasuke is called "the Uchiha". I mean... where did that come from in the first place? Who calls Naruto "the Uzumaki"? Or Kakashi "the Hatake"? I don't know, it just sounds stupid to me.


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## Mαri (Mar 25, 2009)

Before I begin I'd like to quote that this person ^ makes a good point that Highschool fics are so overly cliche that it makes me want to throw my computer out the window..

I'm picky with any sort of (quotation marks)'cannon pairings' (*cough coughSasukeSakuracoughcough*)

Sasusaku has the same plot, same ending, and same beginning. It's like watching a rerun of naruto fillers over and over again (And even the fact that it's filler is bad )

Sasuke comes back to village, he killed his brother. Sakura doesn't like him. He figures out he does. He flirts with her. She realizes she likes him again. Then they live happily ever after. The end.. Oh and include some vial fluff and possibly lemon if you're that hard core at writting. 

Hinata and Naruto are sent on a mission (or not, depending on your tastes) and Hinata struggles to tell Naruto she loves him. They get into a battle. Hinata (or Naruto) saves one another and consult feelings. They fall in love, the end. BOOOORRIIINNNGG 

Even akatsukixanyleafvillagegirl story is the same.. I've read dozens, just to see if there was any diversity between them, but it's like the clone wars...

Akatsuki member kidnaps girl. They hate each other. [insert some random fluff/lemon scene ()]. They fall in love. The member leaves with the girl. The end.  That just makes me want to strangle myself at the amount of OCC they put in it..

That reminds me. OC's...

I dispise OCs.. The reason is, they either are all powerfull godly childeren of death, or they are emo and don't realize their true potential. I don't read them, but I have heard of their legacy.

And just Ocs in particular. OCs are 'okay' if they are not part of the main plot in my book. If they are simply for use of filling in loose ends I'm fine. If they become part of the plot, I simply close out of the page. I can't stand OCs other than that... They make me strangle myself when reading a fanfic.


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## vkx (Mar 25, 2009)

*Black_Emerald* said:


> Before I begin I'd like to quote that this person ^ makes a good point that Highschool fics are so overly cliche that it makes me want to throw my computer out the window..
> 
> I'm picky with any sort of (quotation marks)'cannon pairings' (*cough coughSasukeSakuracoughcough*)
> 
> ...



I agree with you on everything BUT the OC issue. I like OCs, if they're created RIGHT. As in, balanced and believeable so that they aren't godly and emo, but not weak and helpless waiting for the author's anime crush to rush in and save him/her.


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## Kaku (Mar 30, 2009)

Uhh, there are a lot of things I don't like to read in a fic.

*Uninspired, uncreative stories:*
These are stories, where you can predict everything. And I mean everything. Or stories which have major retelling parts from the manga like the whole chuunin exam. I mean I read the manga itself a few times and I don't want to read it again over and over again.
You can write it shortend or write a note at the begining from the chapter, that should do it.

*Naruto getting beaten up by a mob:*
I may like it if the fic is really dark and angsty and really contributes to it.
But otherwise it is just idiotic. C'mon, I mean they never attacked him, at most tried to ignore him, because they are afraid. Why would I attack someone, who could easily kill me if he really is a monster. Just illogical.

*Too western, american like:*
This is partly about names, jutsus and everything else, what might not actually fit into an asian like story.
For example dragons and phoenix as summons, though they have been in asian as well, but they are always written in western style.
Or sentences like "Let's rock". Arghl, everytime I am reading such things I get a stroke. Also I don't like to read american/english measurements like foot, inches and so on. Ok, it is more of a preference and I won't stop reading a fic because of it. But I just don't like it. 
Then there are the names. If an OC is called something like "Luke", "John",... I am really tempted to stop reading. It isn't that hard to find a japanese name. And it is not hard to translate or find the name of a jutsu. It doesn't need to be 100% correct, but I hate it to read the english jutsu names. I might add, "Lord Hokage" sounds really bad, "Hokage-sama" is so much better and easy to remember.

*Instant love:*

In this part I am leaning to those die-hard NH fans, who are getting wet just because Hinata confessed in the manga and meaning NH is canon. Pf, there is no development at all and I just can't see really, genuine love happening out of nowhere. Real love comes from deep friendship and understanding. Often love in fics lacks it.

*X-overs:*

I just don't like it.
The chars, plot and everything else fit only into this universe and it just loose it, if suddenly Ichigo appears and Naruto gets Bankai and jumps between Konoha and Soul Society.
No, I only read Narutoverse only stories. Well, I am only reading Naruto fics after all. 

*Bad written stories:*

My native language is german, I may be decent with english but not that good, I am only reading manga and fic, watching animes with suubed, in english, but if the grammar and/or spelling sucks, the whole story sucks, even if the plot is decent. There is a difference between "your" and "you're". 


Well, that's it for now at least. Maybe I will write more things if I come across things I don't like.


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## Kind of a big deal (Mar 30, 2009)

The biggest problem I have with fanfics is when they are written for some fleeting desire from the author to see a certain thing happen.

This can be sleepover or highschool drama but it also includes the happily ever after, marriage type stories especially. On the other hand there's also the stories where characters (almost always naruto) relive the whole canon storyline as cooler stronger versions of themselves.

Sometimes I get fooled by the description and read them by accident, but usually I just stay far away.

_Also I have a bias against stories that are about a pairing to begin with. What's the point of that? There's so many motivations, ideas, even philosophies to work with, why end up with yet another pairing? Surely writers are supposed to be creative? Not to mention a pairing is actually already out of character for most of the regular cast to begin with._


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## Kanai (Mar 30, 2009)

To be honest, I guess I don't really like:

*High-School Fics:*
Yes, they are nice and all, but it's always something like:
So there's a pairing, NaruHina, SasuSaku, or whatever. Often times, the guy is the "hottest guy in the school". Suddenly, this guy notices the girl out of everyone else, blah blah blah, all that high school drama. 
It's just not my thing.

*Super Short Stories:*
Ever see those kind of fanfics that are only 3-4 paragraphs, with horrible grammar?
Example of random SasuSaku fic thing:
"sasuke walkeds up and then saw sakra and said, can you reborn my clan? and then sakura giggled an agreed so dey went to sasukez house. 
the next day sauske visited his big bro and had a fight with him."

:Sbama

*Vampire-Naruto Fics:*
Stories where one person is the vampire, and thinks he/she is "interesting", and then pursues that person.
Vampire Uchihas just..  


Yup, and that's pretty much it.  Biased? Yes.


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## Tieria Erde (Mar 30, 2009)

Good lord there is a bunch of things people already mentioned, but, specifically I hate: 

- Sakura being the best woman ever to grace the earth. Seriously, I hate that fans portray themselves as her and pair her up with their fap fantasy (ItaSaku, for example. Sakura healing Itachi's eyes and, suddenly, they fall in love. WHAT WHAT WHAT) 

- Naruto being a cry-baby "OMGSASSSSSUKE I need you to save me from this torment, I am useless without you" 

- Vampire fics. Any fandom. NO. 

- Itachi being a complete pervert and/or blood-thirsty. I mean, in the manga he never showed interest in fighting... and he suddenly is horny for blood. Also, a lot of ItaSasu is based on rape.... BITCHPLZ no. 

- Overall, a character being OOC makes me rage. Hard. 

- And... Naruto developing some sort of sharingan, the most popular one being, the Kyuugan.......................................................................

Yes. I am not kidding. 
FAIL.


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## LordUchiha (Mar 30, 2009)

What I mainly hate about fanfics are 

1 Pairings that do not make any sense in any form. Mainly the Akatsuki ones. Although to be fair I think those are just horny fan girls with problems.

2 Cliches that never seem to end and one is the whole high school thing. It was cool at first but now it just makes me feel like I'm reading something that I could watch on the WB/CW channel. Its that bad.

3 Characters that get a little too ooc. Its ok for a character to show true feelings with someone when alone but its another to simply act either completely evil or a ball full of sunshine. 

4 I agree with the kyubi thing whole heartily. He is a demon created to kill and destroy. He probably wants Naruto dead and definitely hates the fourth. I also hate naruto x kyubi seriously wtf!!

5 Finally I am sick of the absence of Chouji in fanfics. We need more Chouji!!!!


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## Lilykt7 (Mar 30, 2009)

Shiinsetsu said:


> *Vampire-Naruto Fics:*
> Stories where one person is the vampire, and thinks he/she is "interesting", and then pursues that person.
> Vampire Uchihas just..
> 
> ...



Omg vampire Uchiha's


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## LordUchiha (Mar 30, 2009)

CharLots said:


> One thing I hate to see in fic is any of the characters speaking like American high schoolers - it's just so freakin' annoying, I stop reading immediately if I pick that up.
> 
> Another thing I hate is sloopy characterisation for minor characters. "I like bugs!" (Shino) "I'm a ditzy slut!" (Ino) "I'm hungry!" (Choji) "IT'S TROUBLESOME" (Shikamaru). I mean, of course you have to include the characters' little particularities, but it doesn't have to be so goddamn caricatural, especially in dialogue.
> 
> One last pet peeve - I know many people do this, but I HATE it when Sasuke is called "the Uchiha". I mean... where did that come from in the first place? Who calls Naruto "the Uzumaki"? Or Kakashi "the Hatake"? I don't know, it just sounds stupid to me.



Just letting you know they have been called this before. They are mainly called it by minor characters or the villains. This for two reasons. They are the last of their clans and therefore are looked at as something rare or interesting. The other reason can also be a sign of disrespect considering them not worthy of being called their real name and instead just label them as another member of the clan. This is common in real life too however the idea is a bit different. Around 4th grade my classmates started to address me by my last name. Why I dont know just something people started to do. Maybe it also has to do with growing up being recognized by the people you represent and not just yourself. Sasuke is a good example of that because of his clan's history.


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## ?cureuil fou (Mar 30, 2009)

Can anyone link me to this "Team 8" fic I've heard so much about?


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## Kaku (Mar 31, 2009)

?cureuil fou said:


> Can anyone link me to this "Team 8" fic I've heard so much about?



Do you mean this?


Well, I read one High School fic, and it wasn't that bad, but it clashes with my taste of "Being too western".
Vampire fics? I didn't even started to read one, because I KNOW it won't hit my nerve for good fics.

I don't mind chars being ooc from time to time, but total ooc-ness is kinda disturbing. With this I mean something like an enormous dark Naruto.
But I have nothing against Kyuubi being nicer or even a NarutoXFemKyuubi pairing if something is backing up it.


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## Kokohaku (Apr 1, 2009)

Hey people. I'm here to share my pet peeves:


*OC characters.* I have never seen an OC character that didn't completely steal the spotlight or have a super special jutsu or belong to a super special ninja clan. 'Original' characters? I don't think so! And of all the bad fanfiction I read with OCs, about half of them are the 10-tailed wolf demon.
*Lemons.* When people write lemons, they always find stupid names for your sex organs. We now call your penis a manhood, or a throbbing member. And we call your vagina a wet cave, or a bud of desire. Because's that just cool all of a sudden.
*Kidnapping.* Poor kunoichi. Poor uke's. No matter who it is, it's always corny and it's always being used by people who can't think of anything better to write.

And that concludes my rant. I'm sorry if I offended anybody, but these are the three subjects that I feel most strongly about when it comes to Naruto fanfiction.


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## Kaku (Apr 4, 2009)

After reading a bit more of the posts here, I thought about some more I really don't like to read.

*Character Bashing:*

I don't like Sasuke. I really don't like him and his way, but bashing him for it?
It would be easier to make him a bit more OOC.
And then there is always Sakura bashing in any way possible. Calling her a "banshee" and things like that.

*Katanas and Kenjutsu:*

FFS, Naruto is a shinobi/ninja not a fricking samurai. He has a nindo, not a bushido.
Katanas and swords are just for support, nothing more.

*Too many pairings:*

Just focus on one pairing. It annoys me, if the plot jumps from pairing to pairing. Most of the time I read fic for ONE pairing, or Naru/xxx or harem, if I am in the mood for it. 
Not every char needs to be paired up with someone.

*Naruto "masking" his feelings and true identity or Overpowered Naruto:*

I think author are just too lazy to rewrite the whole story and just do this to make Naruto overpowered.
Don't get me wrong, if the plot and development behind Naruto is good, I don't mind him being quite strong with 12. Afterall Itachi and Kakashi were quite strong themselfs at this age and Naruto has to be stronger anyway anytime. 

*Overly perverted shinobis:*

Often I think, "Is every male in the fic a major pervert?"
Seeing Hiruzen hiding his collection of Icha Icha somewhere in his office, or Kakashi gets a stroke if one of his books get damaged like burned or torn apart.

*Naruto getting the most gozu doujutsu, which...*

... has all the abilities of the sharingan, byakugan and rin'negan and more.



Well, that's it for now. 
Is there a thread about cliches or things about a fic, that you like?
I really wanna talk about these things too.


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## Itarilde (Aug 21, 2009)

This thread is so full of dislike...it's brilliant! xD

But anyways, onto my list. 

• Bad grammar, spelling, or bad formatting. Like if the story is all just bunched up or something like that. >.<

• I hate it when characters talk to themselves inside their heads too much. Or if they have somebody inside their heads telling them stuff. 
Ex:. 
No way! I don't like _him_/*her*!

Yes you do!

No I don't!

Or...
Ooooh, you wanna do naughty stuff to that person don't you?

Hell no.

It's just weird. 

• Any character bashing at all is really retarded. Don't make Sakura a total ditz, or Sasuke a total ass, or Naruto into a total idiot. 

• X-overs. 

•Too much Japanese words. Ex:. Baka, Honto Ni, Kami...just UGH.

•I'm not going to say I hate Oc's, cause I don't, not if they're done right. AKA, no _*Mary-Sues*_! 

--End List.


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## Tomato Sauce (Aug 23, 2009)

It's been a while since I read a fanfic, but I'd like to share some of my dislikes 


When kiddies watch Gossip Girl or Hannah Montana or *insert random teen/pre-teen show* and copy the exact  same plot for a SasuSaku or Naruhina Story. (I don't read NaruHina though...just saying)


Sakura is a princess. 'Nuff said.


When the pace is excruciatingly slow just to build needless Drama. In this case the main example would be Naruto goes back to Yondi's time, or in a dream state he ends up ins a parallel universe. While these stories have lots of potential, amateur authors concentrate on the basic "ZOMG BBQ, Fourth Hokage, Kakashi-Sensei" drama for 10 chapters with no decent plot to back it up. 


Also extremely fast pace, and events that happen so quickly they aren't believable. 


Stories of dark unimaginable secrets...that are not so dark. Those annoy me the most, because I have a strong taste for dark gritty stories. 


Exaggerating the suffering of a certain character, usually the girls, to build up *tough girl* attitude. Example, (insert Kunoichi's name)'s step dad beats her and she hates the world, but when she falls in love with (insert boy's name)...Will she change? 

Usually yes, in half a chapter she becomes an airhead) 


Same with the endless suffering, except all that pain, death, and abuse is nothing compared to high school or social life. 


Stories in which things happen conveniently and no one gets hurt. If they do, it has no relevance to their development.


First person narrative, not many can pull that off. 


 Oh yeah, and using western names for OCs. For example, Naruto's cousin *Catherine* from the land of fluffy kittens or John uchiha. *nasty*


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## Furious George (Aug 23, 2009)

Cyckness said:


> Although Hakanami did a good job silencing this one (Thanks a bunch, Haka! ).... I somehow feel inclined to respond even further. Perhaps because I felt personally attacked by this very poorly written excuse for a rant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



WHOA.... I can't believe I posted this. I wish I could neg rep myself. What was my problem that day? lol 

Anyway, *Smash_2451*, on the off-chance that you ever come back to this place I just wanted to apologize. You didn't deserve that. 

My apology is a few years late, but I gets it better then ever.


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## InfallibleImam (Aug 25, 2009)

I only have one particularly HATED Cliche, that's the Text-Block Cliche. 

When someone is too lazy to break up the paragraphs to make them decently sized... It becomes an utter eye strain. 

It doesn't matter how good or bad the actual writing is when a person pains them self to have to read it.


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## LDA (Sep 3, 2009)

I hate when people either put the entire thing as one block (Paragraphs, people?) or every sentence is seperated (enter key abuse). Both are the most common formatting on ff.net


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## Thunderbolt (Sep 3, 2009)

Basically most of the things above and:

Two things....

Truth and Dares! Is there anythign more annoying than Truth and Dares?! God I hate them, the most unoriginial plot ever. Usually beyond random, involving tons of stupid OC and simply just can't up with anything thats funny. 

Karaoke! Do I even need to explain? Good, cause I don't wanna... *tears her hair*


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## Disquiet (Sep 3, 2009)

I suppose the most frustrating "cliché" I come across in fanfics in general is a writer with fantastic structural ability and command of language, but no character-writing skills.  A good writer with a Mary-Sue OC is just a pain to see.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Sep 4, 2009)

BrianTheGoldfish said:


> I suppose the most frustrating "clich?" I come across in fanfics in general is a writer with fantastic structural ability and command of language, but no character-writing skills.  A good writer with a Mary-Sue OC is just a pain to see.



Actually the most frustrating is the writer with a really awesome idea...but obviously doesn't have the talent to pull it off...


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## Sakubo (Sep 4, 2009)

1) For me, it's when a character calls another character by an honorific they never use on that person in canon.

For example...Sasuke saying "Naruto-_kun_" or "_Naru-chan_", or Naruto saying "Sasuke-_kun_". Seriously, it's unbelievable how common that is in SasuNaru fanfics. It makes me want to vomit. 

2) If the story takes place in Japan, and all the canon characters have Asian names...and the OCs have names like "Jessica" and "Robert". 

3) Too many Japanese words. It's okay to use some, I don't mind the usual "usuratonkachi" or honorific, but come on, it's "THANK YOU", not "ARIGATOU".

Then there's general out-of-character-ness. The list goes on. xD


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Sep 4, 2009)

Not really a cliche'...but I see it alot. I'm sure if you look through the forums or any other places you'll see it too. Authors who post one story, don't finish it (doesn't matter if its good or not) and then are quick to post another. Loads of ideas, but nothing ever gets completed.


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## Shukumei (Sep 6, 2009)

I dislike this one:
Naruto is actually very intelligent/pensive; his outgoing, flamboyant personality is just an act. He would prefer not to wear bright orange clothes, but is forced to do so to make him stand out so that the Kyuubi container can be easily recognized (or some other emo-inducing reason), and actually loathes ramen. Or, he's somewhat okay with ramen, but only because it's the only thing he's able to buy at the store that the staff don't defile/dirty/spit on / etc. because he's the Kyuubi container. Insert several other similar ideas and reasons linked to oppression by hateful villagers, essentially turning Naruto into an OOC with the name Uzumaki Naruto.

I also dislike fics where the Kyuubi is nurturing and protecting of Naruto, practically acting motherly, and calling him "kit".


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## Furny324 (Sep 6, 2009)

Let's see...

1. EVERYBODY IS GAY
I don't like it when somebody makes people that are obviously heterosexual gay, just because they think the pairing is cute or whatever. This actually applies to all pairings, where it's just totally forced, except of course crack parings.
2. Mary Sues
If you're gonna make an original character, put some damn thought into. It's not interesting to read about a fully invincible wonder kid, who is better at everything then every one, and loved by everybody in the story.

Those are the major ones.


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## Parsee (Sep 6, 2009)

I LOVE WHEN EVERYONE IS GAY

I hate the "everyone is not gay" cliche. Ruins any story for me.


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## Furny324 (Sep 6, 2009)

Parsee said:


> I LOVE WHEN EVERYONE IS GAY
> 
> I hate the "everyone is not gay" cliche. Ruins any story for me.


Granted it cuts both ways.
I just don't like forced pairings in general.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Sep 6, 2009)

Furny324 said:


> Let's see...
> 
> 1. EVERYBODY IS GAY
> I don't like it when somebody makes people that are obviously heterosexual gay, just because they think the pairing is cute or whatever. This actually applies to all pairings, where it's just totally forced, except of course crack parings.
> ...


If done well, its not that bad. But then again I'm not into sword fighting and so I stay away from those fics.



Parsee said:


> I LOVE WHEN EVERYONE IS GAY
> 
> I hate the "everyone is not gay" cliche. Ruins any story for me.



  LOL....that's another way to look at it.



Furny324 said:


> Granted it cuts both ways.
> I just don't like forced pairings in general.



Word.


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## kakashiloverxxx (Sep 7, 2009)

I hate how almost EVERY story ends in a happy ending!! For god's sake people; not everybody has a happy ending!!

How the plot has too many twists in it. They take away from the actual story; and before you know it your brain has melted and leaked out your ear.

Mary-sues!! I honestly think you should wait until...what? The 4th chapter until they do something useful. Not to overly dramatic.

I think more people should tell it from an ACTUAL CHARACTER'S point of view. I mean, have them tell how they feel about the OC!! Seriously; because it's always about that one person!! Let's learn a bit more about other people today, okay children?
When the character has a multi-personality complex. If you're gonna do something with that; it's all good. But when, in the beginning of the story, he's/she's all dark and doesn't do anything and suddenly he's/she's all, "Woo hoo!! We can do it!!"

When people make up a new god damned jinchuriki!! WTF!? Do you KNOW how many people have used that shit??? REALLY!?

High school/sleepover theme. This is SO unoriginal!! You should really have a realistic situation!! Like Jiriya meeting an interesting person in a men's club. Or Naruto meeting a girl who challenges to a ramen contest!! Or maybe Iruka gets a student teacher!! SOMETHING ELSE!!!

I love this thread because all your frustrations are helping me w/ my writing!! ^_^ So thankyou!!


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## Kabomacho (Sep 7, 2009)

Chances are most of what I'm going post has been said.



Naruto getting beaten multiple times by mobs and the Hokage doing nothing.

God-like Naruto.

Sasuke being an evil-emo-asshole that the author (who hates his guts) 
refuses to kill, instead deciding to spend a majority of the fic having Sasuke return multiple times.

Naru/Hina... I'm getting tired of seeing these around now-a-days.

Yaoi, I'm not a supporter of it. Especially since I've been on the M-rated fics page for Naruto on FF.net and seen entire pages of nothing but yaoi fics.

Harems.


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## Kakashifan727 (Sep 7, 2009)

Most of those up there. Also, the text speak and happy endings. Generally I like to end mine dark and sad endings as I plan to for two of my fics. One is on here already and the other will be published soon.


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## xXTayuyaxX (Sep 7, 2009)

Ridiculous sex scenes.
Like, when 2 character meet for the first time, or just don't know each other romantically... And all the sudden, they're having sex.
MY willing suspension of disbelief has limits.


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## N1nj45tyl3 (Sep 7, 2009)

Not really one done by authors, but people who review and decide that they need to personally attack the author. Constructive criticism is fine, though sometimes its harsh to hear someone else's opinion, but to attack the author simply because you do not like the plot/story/pairing/ending/ or whatever doesn't mean that you have every god given right to attack the authors belief/like-of(or-dislike-of)xxx/mother/dog/choice of movies....


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## Misha (Sep 7, 2009)

I hate when authors complain about Mary Sues, yet their OCs are one


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## HPTR Fangirl (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: Fanfic cliches that make you sick*



e-nat said:


> It's been a while since I read a fanfic, but I'd like to share some of my dislikes
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, and using western names for OCs. For example, Naruto's cousin *Catherine* from the land of fluffy kittens or John uchiha. *nasty*



This makes me very tick as well. I hate OC's with English names especially in Sasuke X Naruto fics simply because to me it doesn't flow with the story. Naruto isn't an American setting story thus using English / British names in fictions is like what the heck for me (as a general story-wise reaction). I usually ignore those names as well as OCs. Not to mention, there a lots of different Naruto characters without needing the use of OC. I know its hard to come up with Japanese and Asian names, if you don't live there. But at least these authors should use the internet or google to get some eastern Asian and japanese names so as to make their OC a little more believable. That's what I do when I get stumped to find Japanese names for my fic. 

431


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## Proman (Sep 8, 2009)

Yaoi

Authors who actually write good stories but don't update them


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## Kakashifan727 (Sep 8, 2009)

Misha said:


> I hate when authors complain about Mary Sues, yet their OCs are one



Really? What if they can't tell? I'm having trouble finding Naruto litmus tests.


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## zionforsale (Sep 9, 2009)

To be honest, I prefer to read a fanfiction with OC in it, since it gives something completely new and fresh to the story. Having that said, I hate these things when it comes to OC fanfics:

1. Too much description of the OC's face, clothes, body, etc.

    Yeah, I get it. OC isn't drawn by Kishi, so her/his image needs to be pounded into the heads of the readers. Only a few can do this tastefully, most of them is overdone and extremely Mary-Sue-ish (?). Characters only pay attention to each other's appearance at first meeting, when they have a purpose to do so, or when it's at an appropriate space in the story.

2. Too much lemon in M-rating fanfictions.

    I get it. Sometimes you write a fic because you have the hot for the characters, but for pete's sake, refrain yourself and actually write a decent story. I always write M rating story because the material is complex and the topic of sex involves. However, I hate it when right of the bat it's lemon and lemon. Characters are portrayed as sex fiends who cannot stop but noticing bust and boobs of other characters, or thinking up dirty fantasies. Isn't it a bit out-of-character for a great ninja to notice his teammate's lovely curves while* engaged* in battle?

3. Characters falling in love so quickly without little interaction or reason.

    Here's the thing. I'm ok with romance, as long as there's something new to it. To have a cold mysterious character falling head over heels for a ditz is only ok when there is enough time and probably reason to do so. However, having an absolutely cool guy to love an "average, normal girl" is a bit far stretched. When someone of Sasuke or Kakashi's caliber notices a girl, that girl (please don't make her gorgeous, benevolent, and super-powerful at the same time) needs to have something special about her even if she has nil in power or beauty. Plus, to have a character hidden within himself due to tragedy fall in love within an instant (or in four chapters) is definitely out of character. (In one of my fanfic, the character didn't even realize he's in love or says it until chapter 25 or so.)

4. Stop making the OC perfectly nice and good and kind, or very sassy, devilish, strong-headed.

    Everyone has a mean streak. Everyone has a saint. Stop creating flat characters. Contrast makes a character interesting. Making someone a cold person who secretly collects cookie jars is intriguing; making someone a cold person who decides to spend lot of time around other characters and talking to them in lengthy conversation *is not*.

5. The point isn't drama, but good drama.

    If one more person has their family murdered, distant long lost relative being discovered, falls in love with their enemy, I seriously will hold my own fanfiction writing class. You don't need to make your characters extra dark or their past ultra tragic or the twist-and-turn so bendy the story might break its spine. Relax, write a good story with logical and well thought-out events. 

6. Yeah, all the romance. But where the heck is my story?

    Sometimes writers get so caught up in their romantic attachment to the characters that they completely overhaul the story. The whole story becomes just a flat nameless excuse for the character and the OC to get together (illogical things such as suddenly someone decides they will share a place to stay, or always being put together in a mission, a class, a teahouse, etc.). Yeah, to have the OC a suspicious spy so that a main character needs to be next door to keep the OC in check is acceptable (I called shot-gun on this idea in my fanfic. Copyrighted. ), but to have them bumping into each other all the time is terrible. A main relationship carries the story, but the story cannot be made up of two characters talking and looking and falling for each other.

****

Phew I went on a rant. Just a topic I've been dying to talk about.

One thing though, I've read this thread and seen how much negative the word OC actually brings up. While I understand it, having read many of them and all, I found there are some real jewels in the rubble. I think most OCs are not well written, so that's why it's so repulsive. But some clich?s in OC fics can be fixed or reasonable.

*Falling into Naruto verse clich?:* I use this in my new Naruto Fic. Why not? It's not like the character is going to have any super power or property. How else will I bring someone with the cynical eye of twentieth century into Narutoverse and observe and learn from that world? Plus, I don't think it's necessary to explain why the portal is there. What if the transportation isn't a main part of the story? Assuming that the arrival of the character doesn't signal any change in the Narutoverse, why would an author waste time on elaborating on someone coming here? It puts more importance on the OC who isn't supposed to be that important in the Narutoverse to begin with.

*Having foreign name*: I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as it's probable. In all my fics, most characters have foreign first names with Japanese last names. Why? Because most of them are foreign anyway, that's the point of the character. They're half way in, half way out. The point is to choose one that is not...well stupid. To make someone foreign, make them *really* foreign so it doesn't appear to be a mistake but an artistic decision.
*
Having OC love a character *: fine by me, as long as it's done tastefully. I hate it when ppl pair OC with someone in the Manga who obviously is meant to love another character. It's just not possible. After all, what is so wrong to give life to the OC? Aren't they supposed to love too?  Rather than having two OCs falling in love with one another. Because then why write a fanfiction?


What I mean to say is that a bad OC fic is very apparent from the start. It doesn't take long to realize that. But to say that just the OC tag makes the story unreadable to you is really unfair to writers who are trying to write decent OC fics, myself included (notice I said "try"). I find myself committing some clich?s, but I really don't think I have written a clich? fanfic. I think you can make the OC a major character in your fic, but it has to be done tastefully.


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## roseofversailles (Sep 9, 2009)

*BLOND* for a MAN

*BLONDE* FOR A WOMAN!!!!!!


Also,

*BRUNET *FOR A MAN

*BRUNETTE *FOR A WOMAN.


*ARRRRGGHHHHHHHHH STOP CALLING NARUTO BLONDE*

/end rant.


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## Some Random Weird Guy (Sep 10, 2009)

-*Kyubi really being a good demon who was struck with bad demon energy and then became a bad demon, and really lubs Konoha, except Orochimaru who attacked his/her kits.* The sheer amount of this is extremely annoying, I want a bamf Kyubi. Kyubi being controlled by Madara to do evil is just as bad in my opinion. If I ever write my Naruto fic, this is how the conversation is going to go.

"Hey Kyubi, why did you attack Konoha?"

"I was in the mood to destroy something and kill innocents, Konoha was closest."

- *Badly written harems.* I really have no problems with polygamous pairings, in fact, I could care less in real life too. I just have problems with the classic, "Let's all play nice for Naruto's sake, even though there has been zero development, and we should all logically hate each other's guts." I mean, I'm even a fan of Big-Ass!Harems, as long as they are as realistic as possible. The people in the harem should have tons of conflicts for _at least_ half the story, before Naruto's seductive charms kick in and make them play nice.

-*Crappy Doujutsu.* Naruto doesn't need a shitty, super cheap eye blood line, that position has already been filled by the Uchiha clan. If I ever get around to writing my fic, Naruto's doujutsu will be simple. It will be a mutation developed through an overdose of Kyubi chakra, and shall enhance eyesight, give slight telescopic vision, and predict movements. It won't be shooting laser beams.

- *Over the top character bashing.* Sure, you may hate the character, but that's the point of fanfiction, to try and make it better. Make it so you _don't_ hate the character. That's what I plan to do with Sasuke. I actually liked Sasuke up until the end of Itachi arc in part one, which is when he went uber-emo.

- *The assumption that the reader knows everything about Naruto and it's characters.* I mean, I know it's fanfiction, but it's rather annoying. I want to read a fanfiction that is like a book, something that could be completely stand-alone from canon, and still make perfect sense to someone who knows nothing of Naruto.

I have many more, but I got to go to bed. As a final note, I shall list one of my final peeves.

*NOT ENOUGH GENDERBENDERS.* Seriously. I want a fem!Lee and fem!Shino dammit!


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## Kabomacho (Sep 10, 2009)

Uh... if you take a character and switch their gender... wouldn't you call that new character an OC with the same name?


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## Some Random Weird Guy (Sep 10, 2009)

In my opinion, not really. 

They probably wouldn't even have the same name. The character would also either have the same personality, or a slightly altered one. I just think that genderbenders can present tons of potential hilarity and/or story ideas. I mean, most people are fine with femNaru and femHaku, what makes Rock Lee and Shino any different?

And it could potentially create some hot chicks/kickass guys.

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## Erendhyl (Sep 11, 2009)

The clich?s I hate most are:


*OOC-ness*

I can tolerate characters being moderately different from their canon selves. The person writing the story isn't Kishimoto and neither am I, thus neither one of us can declare with certainty exactly how a character will act in a given situation. As long as I can recognize the character and they still retain their canon-established character flaws, I'll give the story a chance. But when Sasuke heads off to buy flowers and tell (insert character here) how deeply he's in love with them, there had better have been a heck of a lot of development leading up to that.


*Flanderization*

Reducing any character to having one or two personality traits. Naruto loves ramen and will become Hokage, believe it! Sasuke is emo. Shikamaru says "troublesome" and occasionally plays Shougi (but he's sure to remind everyone how troublesome it is). Ino is a ditz and/or slut. Hinata stutters and faints. Blegh.

That's not interesting. That's not a funny comedy idea. That's just dull. Most of the Narutoverse characters seem like cookie cutter characters, but Kishimoto has given them depth that makes them _interesting_. That depth is hard to add, especially in the characters who haven't appeared as much in the manga. But if you're going to take the time to focus on a character, make that focus worthwhile. Characters filling minor roles in your fanfic won't need too much depth, but please make Lee care about something in life other than repeating the phrase "Springtime of Youth". Remember _why_ he says that in the first place. It's not because he can't say two words without mentioning Gai-sensei; it's because he and Gai try to enjoy their strength and promise while it lasts. Try to add some of that into the story to make Lee the awesome guy we all love. He may be used as comic relief sometimes in the series itself (though more commonly in anime filler), but that doesn't mean it's the only trait he possesses.


*Character bashing*

This sort of goes with OOC-ness. I love Sasuke's character, but I admit that he has his asshole moments. It's not out of character or bashing for him to occasionally be rude to people. It _is_ out of character for him to completely curse out anyone who messes up even slightly, no matter how difficult their task was. If another character proceeds to call him on this by being the incarnation of sainthood, I'll stop reading. Naruto doesn't think Sasuke is Satan incarnate. Naruto and Sasuke don't think Sakura is a heartless bitch. No one calls Hinata a spineless wuss and hits her, except pre-Chuunin Exam Neji, who was called on it. Not all authors may like all characters, but they should at least keep faithful to the characters' relationships with each other.


*God-like Naruto*

I like Naruto because I like watching him grow. His development is what makes him special to me, and I feel cheated when he starts the Alternate Timeline story as an all-powerful genius. I especially hate when he starts the story powerful, arrogant, and dark, and then the author proceeds to bash Sasuke for being arrogant and dark but less powerful than the new godly Naruto.


*Naruto being routinely beaten/chased/physically abused by the villagers*

Based on every flashback we've seen, the villagers confined their hatred of Naruto to cold shoulders and occasional insults. It doesn't make him cool and angsty to have a background of living hell. Gaara already has that, and he went insane from it. This almost always overlaps with god-like Naruto, in which case he's really not Naruto anymore. Naruto does have his moments of darkness or occasionally angst over his past, but what makes him Naruto is that he has the inner strength to bounce back up.


*Poor spelling/grammar and giant blocks of text*

Not really a clich? in the normal sense, but still something that happens far too often and will get me to click the back arrow immediately, in the rare event that the poor quality of the summary didn?t tip me off sooner. Like with OOC-ness, I?ll be fine with one or two slip ups, but there shouldn?t be enough to distract me from the story itself.

Those are the main ones, but I'm sure I'll think of more later. I love fanfiction and I used to read it obsessively, but I can still find my fair share of things to dislike about it.


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## Kankurette (Oct 11, 2009)

Copypasta-ing what I wrote in the Naruto Rants LJ community.


> - Naruto isn't the brightest star in the sky, but there is a LOT more to him than running around shouting "Dattebayo!" and eating ramen. Especially on the latter point. He's not the village idiot.
> - Just because Kakashi reads Come Come Paradise does not mean he molests his students, or Iruka for that matter.
> - On the subject of Iruka, he is not some weak little girly man who skips round Konoha in a flowery apron saying "Hello clouds, hello sky". Yes, he's quite maternal towards Naruto, yes, he's a nice bloke, but he's not a wimp. He took a dirty great shuriken to the back, and he's a Chuunin, and we all know how evil the Chuunin Exams are. (See also: Naruto the weepy uke.)
> - The Kyuubi is not cute, nor is it a girl.
> ...


Also:

*Spoiler*: _MOAR_ 



 - I like Kisame. I like Chouza. I do not like them paired up, especially when Sharky-chan isn't a crazed psycho and Chouza is a moron. Kisame probably gets wood from killing people, Chouza is actually quite bright from what little we've seen of him, and I don't think anyone in Konoha, particularly a member of an established clan, would want to have it off with anyone from Akatsuki. Particularly if they killed your son's sensei.
 - Gai does not shout "YOUTH!!!!!111" all the time. 
 - Hiashi Hyuuga does not molest his kids. Or Neji.
 - Writing fics for the sole purpose of bashing characters is lame. I dislike Hinata, but I don't turn her into a megabitch in my fics. She's not a megabitch, she's one of the few characters who doesn't have a cruel bone in her body.
 - Naruto and the Kyuubi are not BFF.
 - If some teenage fangirl turned up at Akatsuki's sooper sekrit base, they'd probably die in seconds.
 - Making Deidara say 'un' at the end of every sentence is annoying, un. He only says it when he's finished speaking, un. I'm a Kankuro fangirl and I don't make him say 'jaan' all the time, ffs, un.
 - Hidan is not a woobie, he's a douchebag.
 - If you have barely any clue about sex, DON'T WRITE LEMONS. EVER.


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## TwinEnigma (Oct 11, 2009)

The majority of this thread: I agree so hard.

I would like to add:

It's annoying when author's notes are randomly dispersed throughout the body of the fanfic.  Is it really so hard to put a number in parentheses next to the term or sentence and then put the note explaining it in an author's note at the end?

It bugs me that I can pick two lemons at random, replace all the names and pronouns (and genitalia where appropriate) and know that, aside from the names used, the two fanfics are basically identical, right down to the laughable knowledge of human anatomy and foreplay.


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## Kankurette (Oct 11, 2009)

I should have clarified: I mentioned KisaChou because I have nothing against crackfic _as long as it is written well._ Sadly, this one was not. Said fic could have worked if the plot had been different, say Chouza got Stockholm Syndrome or was in a genjutsu or was faking his way out of trouble, and the guys in question had been IC. But it kicked off with Chouza finding an injured Kisame in the woods and taking him home, and Kisame letting the old geezer have sex with him and vice versa, and Chouza didn't even know he was fucking an Akatsuki member, and...no. Just no.
I know my above list might not have seemed like cliches, but in the FF Anbu community on Livejournal, there are a LOT of fics with those cliches. KakaIru, NaruHina and SasuNaru are the worst offenders.


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## toastmachine12 (Jan 14, 2015)

Japanese is over used. Anything can be put in front of no jutsu and it is a ninja technique. Also many times in a fanfic where narutos parents aren't dead he will call the kaasan and otousan instead of haha and chichi also things like onii-san is used for older sibling but it should be ani for older brother or ane for older sister.


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## Alkaid (Mar 16, 2015)

*Character bashing*

It's just annoying.

*Council bullshit/Village bullying Naruto/Banishment*

He was ignored and thought lowly off, not beaten and raped. The council is not banishing Naruto.

*Harems*

I'm not a feminist, but I can't but think people who are writing these harems are 40 year old virgins. They treat the women like objects to collect. I cannot imagine 3+ women sharing a man peacefully, even with lolshadowclone.

*Akatsuki capturing kunoichi*

The kunoichi then proceed to develop some weird form of stockholm syndrome. Teenage girls and their rape fantasies.

*Crack pairings*

I do not believe anyone can fall in love with anybody even if they spend time together. Some people will never click as lovers no matter how much time they spend together, you see it all the time in real life. Then you have character assassination taking place to make it happen.

*Sex god Naruto/Sasuke*

Naruto and Sasuke are good looking guys, but let's face it; Naruto is a dork and Sasuke is kind of asexual and socially retarded. They are not smooth operators.

*Dropping my mask/time travel fics*

These are just really asspull ways of changing a characters personality from the get go. You mean to tell me so and so character found an ancient seal that sends you back in time, but Madara doesn't know about it? Ok.

*Naruto cheating*

It seems like Naruto is Konoha's number one cheater, always going after some strange. Lol.

*Hiashi the mega asshole*

The way he bowed down to Neji shows to me that he is a decent man. He is in a significantly higher position than Neji, doing something like that is very telling. I just think that pre Neji he was torn between being a clan leader and a father, and he slowly shifted more towards father post Neji.


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## shade0180 (Mar 24, 2015)

Might as well list mine.

*Kyuubi Festival*
 - It is pointless and it isn't done right..
 - You aren't suppose to be festive during the day hundred of shinobi died

*Civilian council*
 - They are a military dictatorship. anyone who opposes a kage is automatically under treason.
*
Overpowered Civilian*
 - Ninja's aren't dumb, they are being who are cautious, they look underneath the underneath, they specialize in stealth and spying. Civilians shouldn't be able to hide half their shit to them.
 - Civilian's don't outrun ninja
 - Civilian's shouldn't cast B-rank jutsus, considering a fresh genin doesn't have enough chakra to do that.
 - Civilian's shouldn't have better stealth than anbu

*Too much negative self reflection*
 - Thinking of past mistake is okay
 - Thinking of the past mistake every other paragraph is not.
 - They're dead you said it, we know it. they died because you aren't strong enough. we already know. you don't need to drag that shit repeatedly every chapter or paragraph it is annoying.

*Too much character bashing*
 - Character bashing once in a while is understandable
 - Character bashing that almost makes them OOC is not.

*Weak OC but overpowered*
 - Don't make a genin OC just to make him as strong as a Jounin/S-class criminal or a Jinchuuriki that's stupid.
 - Don't make a genin OC that can pull out S/A-class jutsu endlessly without good reasons. Seriously Chakra level of a bijuu without having a bijuu in a genin wtf are you smoking.
*
Too many convoluted plot*
 - Do I even need to explain this.
*
Dumb Ninja council*
 - Yes this shit is annoying.. Everyone is against everyone that there's basically no point why they exist in the same village... seriously. this is just dumb
 - Ninja council getting outsmarted by civilians wtf you guys are ninjas, you guys have henge, you guys can clone yourself, your kids have mastered henge before they even stepped out of the academy. Kill the civilian council pose as them a few years, with a kage bunshin and kill them off in an accident.

*Yaoi*
 - Just can't deal with it.

*Gender Bender just for sex*
 - If you could make them female and write properly sure, that's cool. But don't turn them into nympho's that's just like to have sex with your main. Also I don't like Yaoi why would I like this shit.

*Furry*
 -Wtf

*Female turning into animals*
 -Wtf

*Dickgirl*
 -Wtf

*Badly written OOC*
- A character could be OOC due to growth.
- Making them OOC in the get go is annoying there's no point in using them if you are changing everything about them.

*Badly written romance + unreasonble situations*
- Ex: part 1 sakura is all over sauce, As shown in the manga she wouldn't be left alone with Naruto if she has a choice. so why would she suddenly follow a time travelling naruto and keep everything a secret about him and instantly fall for him just because he opened up to her..... which practically happened in 1 chapter.. with nothing to back it up, it just happened. My suggestion don't write while drinking.

*Kit*
 - Yea this thing is annoying. 1 paragraph you had the kyuubi, Showing his imposing side. then next he basically call Naruto and Friends his kit. Wtf

*Dumb Kakashi*
 - What I meant by this is Kakashi knows how a seal works, specially for someone who can perform them well enough to counter Orochimaru so however you roll his character he shouldn't be dumb enough to mistake Nardo for the Kyuubi..
 - I know Kakashi didn't like Nardo at the beginning but that's not a reason for him to start bashing Nardo.


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## Arya Stark (Mar 24, 2015)

> - Naruto and the Kyuubi are not BFF.



i know this is from 2009 but


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## Elaybi (Apr 1, 2015)

*Like OP said, random Japanese words* 
....like Arigatou, Minna, Gomen ne, Konnichiwa, kawaii, Sensei, onegai and jizz like that, like, good lord, this is one of the best ways to lead the arrow to the X in the corner. 

*OC Protagonists*
Usually involving Mary Sue-sque types that pine/lust over characters named Sasuke, Kakashi, Naruto, Itachi, Sakura, Ino and the likes (or the reverse). I really couldn't care less about those. Unless of course, it's well-executed but I hardly find myself interested in OC leads.

*Badly written Lemon*
You can easily spot who has actually had sex outside of their own fantasies and know what they're doing/writing.

*OOCly written characters. Period. *
Poor Itachi is a huge victim in this category. 

*Like mentioned, the change of heart thing*



And a lot more.


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## Bissen (Apr 29, 2015)

Late to this thread, but I absolutely cannot stand the "don't call me 'sensei'; we're equal now". Japanese people goddamn never stop calling people "sensei" if they did so at one point. I do see I am 100% on the same page as the posts just above.

I also cannot stand when people *misuse suffixes*, especially "-kun". Sakura calling Kakashi "Kakashi-kun"?! GTFO. I even read some fic where Sakura called Hinata for "Hinata-kun". Sure, if Sakura was Hinata's boss, then maybe, but holy fuck, no.
Kakashi using "chan" with Sakura in horrible too, but a tad more tolerable. Just a tad.

*Random Japanese words*. Screams weaboo to the skies. Stop. Also, using *Japanese items the author is not even familiar with*. Like messing up tonkotsu and tonkatsu. Not really knowing how certain foods taste. I think I read a fic where someone had daifuku for dinner. LOL!

*OOC* is of course always horrible.

*Odd naming*. At least research Japanese spelling before calling your OC "Koshku" or something. Know that Japanese is syllabic.

Did I forget something?


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## Bissen (Apr 29, 2015)

toastmachine12 said:


> Japanese is over used. Anything can be put in front of no jutsu and it is a ninja technique. Also many times in a fanfic where narutos parents aren't dead he will call the kaasan and otousan instead of haha and chichi also things like onii-san is used for older sibling but it should be ani for older brother or ane for older sister.




Uhm... you're actually incorrect on this one.
Okaasan and otousan is how to adress your own parents - though that really depends on parent-child relationship. Neji used chichiue and not otousan, because... Neji and Hyuuga etc. MOST people say "otousan" to their father and "okaasan" to their mother. Those two are also how you speak to others about their parents.
Haha and chichi are how you refer to your parents when talking to other people.

It can be confusing, but Naruto would never call his parents "haha" and "chichi". Never. Not even when talking to others about them. In fact, Naruto drops the honorific "O", uses "chan" instead of "san", and thus says "touchan" and "kaachan" about his parents.


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## Kyu (Apr 29, 2015)

Fics where Naruto grows up with his parents and they neglect him for his younger sister(s). 

These are the absolute worst.


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## SLB (Apr 29, 2015)

it's a central point to his character so uncreative people can't mimic the neglect without making his parents pure shit. a teacher could be doing it, or he could still be a an outcast at school.

and if we're being real, naruto wouldn't be neglected one bit with those parents of his. they'd be doting to the extreme. guess some just can't compartmentalize this stuff.


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## Deleted member 206107 (May 9, 2015)

MarySueSakura


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## Yoona (May 10, 2015)

Narsasu fics written by chicks who use
Orange juice
Chocolate icing
shaving cream
Lotion
and other weird stuff as lube


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## Xel (May 15, 2015)

Apart from the obvious stuff like Mary Sue/OOC-ness/canon defilement/bad grammar, just some random things that irk me:

- characters being referred to by their hair colors (the blond, the redhead etc);
- obvious favoritism/bashing;
- rushed, dry narrative (usually to get to the romance quickly);
- ...and, seriously, any signs of the fanfic being just the writer's (wet) dream/fantasy just being typed out with little thought given to it;
- (X's POV) and other notes like these. Again, lazy writing stuff;
- pointless descriptions of, well, anything;
- song fics.

There's probably more, might add later.


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## hustler's ambition (May 20, 2015)

Ino being the stereotypical blonde bimbo, slut, airhead whore. I mean, really?

Sasuke as a sex-god who cannot get enough of sex. He has to have it all day every day.

Naruto and Hinata being absolutely vanilla. Naruto is a pervert who's unpredictable and super-creative. I would like to think after more than 10 years of marriage and two kids Naruto wouldn't be nervous about being intimate with his wife. And the thought of Hinata constantly fainting because she's just to gosh-darn innocent and shy around her husband is headache-inducing. They're grown. I'm sure they've graduated past vanilla. Yes they are a cute couple, but I don't think (even in their 30s) they are sexually unaware. 

Super duper strong Hinata. I've read fics where Hinata's strength either matches or surpasses the Kages'. And I'm like  Hinata's character has always been about gradual growth. It's unbelieving she'll suddenly become god-like overnight. 

So yes, my biggest gripe is characterization. But I'll admit I'm weak in this department, too. Characterization is pretty hard, but I write for practice and I know I'll get better. But sometimes, the things I've read in Naruto fics had me massively face-palming. But I don't have the heart to tell authors how I feel because I don't want to come across as being mean.


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