# Bleach vs One Piece (Verse Battle)



## Lucy75 (Oct 19, 2017)

I'm asking cause I'm generally not sure anymore. Which verse is stronger? I know One piece top tiers that are admiral level got higher durability or destructive power than any bleach character but there are some hax abilities in bleach that would be a real problem for almost all OP characters too.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 19, 2017)

I'm pretty certain that pitting entire HST verses against one another is actually banned in some capacity. 

While this is up though, I will say that One Piece probably has a more balanced distribution of power, and so would be stronger in an overall sense; in absolute terms, though, Bleach edges it out.

And framing the topic as a huge slugfest between both series, Yhwach by himself is a huge problem with his telekinesis alone.

Reactions: Like 1 | MAXIMUM 1


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Basically

Yhwack > most of current one piece because of his stupid hax. 

 

I mean whitebeard can slap his face and mutilate it. the problem is, is it going to happen before he has a heart attack or not. -> and that depends on Yhwack which is part of his skill set....

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Esano (Oct 19, 2017)

Yhwach, Ichigo, Aizen and stuff have power to take out most of the verse, and Bleach has more hax, but OP does have some of its own hax like shambles and shit, and they have the speed to use it.

I'm thinking Bleach due to Aizen and Ywach.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Regicide (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> I mean whitebeard can slap his face and mutilate it. the problem is, is it going to happen before he has a heart attack or not. -> and that depends on Yhwack which is part of his skill set....


I mean, even if Whitebeard did happen to quake Yhwach's face in, it wouldn't stick.

The guy has multiple forms of regen and healing to work with.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> I mean, even if Whitebeard did happen to quake Yhwach's face in, it wouldn't stick.
> 
> The guy has multiple forms of regen and healing to work with.



 yea.


----------



## Xhominid (Oct 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> I mean, even if Whitebeard did happen to quake Yhwach's face in, it wouldn't stick.
> 
> The guy has multiple forms of regen and healing to work with.



Let's not forget Gerard either...or Lille...or Pernida, dear lord the Schutzstaffel can pretty much wreck the entire world of One Piece with very little trouble.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 19, 2017)

Sadly, Clorox because the Sternritter are so retarded  Kubo needed to add industriall ammounts of C.I.S to axe them.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Alita (Oct 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> I mean, even if Whitebeard did happen to quake Yhwach's face in, it wouldn't stick.
> 
> The guy has multiple forms of regen and healing to work with.



Shoulden't a quake obliterate Yhwach though since it's above his raw stats? Him being small continent while yhwach is only country+? Would there even be anything left for yhwach to regen from?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Alita (Oct 19, 2017)

Esano said:


> Yhwach, Ichigo, Aizen and stuff have power to take out most of the verse, and Bleach has more hax, but OP does have some of its own hax like shambles and shit, and they have the speed to use it.
> 
> I'm thinking Bleach due to Aizen and Ywach.


Whitebeard at his prime should be able to beat ichigo and Aizen though at least due to superior dura and destructive power though.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sherlōck (Oct 19, 2017)

Isn't this banned?


----------



## Esano (Oct 19, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> Whitebeard at his prime should be able to beat ichigo and Aizen though at least due to superior dura and destructive power though.


Yeah I am talking about the fact that most others can't, and they have a lot of hax.


----------



## Revan Reborn (Oct 19, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> Shoulden't a quake obliterate Yhwach though since it's above his raw stats? Him being small continent while yhwach is only country+? Would there even be anything left for yhwach to regen from?


You do know what happened when Ichigo Getsugaed him to pieces.


----------



## Alita (Oct 19, 2017)

Revan Reborn said:


> You do know what happened when Ichigo Getsugaed him to pieces.



Ichigo from what I remember simply cut him in half. That's very different from getting your body almost if not entirely obliterated tho.


----------



## Revan Reborn (Oct 19, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> Ichigo from what I remember simply cut him in half. That's very different from getting your body almost if not entirely obliterated tho.


He had died though, He moved to a future where he had not, its more broken than Aizen's regen.

And a quake would probably only tear someone of that caliber in half.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 19, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> Ichigo from what I remember simply cut him in half. That's very different from getting your body almost if not entirely obliterated tho.


What makes you think this would even happen? There isn't a gross difference between Yhwach's stats and Whitebeard's.

Moreover, Yhwach's gameplan from the start was to nuke the planet...with himself still on it...


----------



## Regicide (Oct 19, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> Shoulden't a quake obliterate Yhwach though since it's above his raw stats? Him being small continent while yhwach is only country+? Would there even be anything left for yhwach to regen from?


Even if this were true (it's not, their stats are relatively comparable), it would be a rather moot point. Yhwach technically doesn't even have to engage anyone from the opposing side face-to-face if he doesn't want to; he has tens of thousands of kilometers worth of range and the sensing to make use it.


----------



## Alita (Oct 19, 2017)

Well I guess it depends on what you consider "comparable" then. Yhwach is at like 115 teratons while whitebeard is at like 1.2 petatons if I remember right. That's a 10 times difference. I wouldn't consider stats comparable unless the difference is less than twice to me.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 19, 2017)

The first big problem for One piece are Lille and Gerard.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Lille



Not really because of the likes of Kuma who can bfr him using distance rather than a dimension. And Kuma can touch intangibles.



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Gerard.



I don't really see how he is useful considering most of what was shown he can do is just change his size/scale. Did he do some special shit or are we just basing his ability to the statement that his Miracle is an NLF ability that would make every thought he has a reality, if so then why didn't he just thought of everyone as dead?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Not really because of the likes of Kuma who can bfr him using distance rather than a dimension. And Kuma can touch intangibles.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really see how he is useful considering most of what was shown he can do is just change his size/scale. Did he do some special shit or are we just basing his ability to the statement that his Miracle is an NLF ability that would make every thought he has a reality, if so then why didn't he just thought of everyone as dead?


Lille can teleport though... As can Yhwach, and Aizen. And anyway Kuma? Kuma would get one shot. He's not that strong.

Ehh, Miracle is not the Visionary (reality warp). Miracle had an ability that reflects the attacks back on the enemy's body and he fought 3 top tiers at the same time (and dozen mid tiers).


Anyway One Piece has far more strong characters and will continue to have even more, but Oda gives the boss characters versatile abilities (many elemental/etc intangibles with overall powerful attacks) rather than powerful hax.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Miracle had an ability that reflects the attacks back on the enemy's body and he fought 3 top tiers at the same time



as I said NLF.

 so if let say a planet level attacks him can he reflect it back? what about Star level? star system level? Galaxy level? universe level? are they going to be bounced back.



Keishin said:


> Lille can teleport though.



sure after three days.. which could be already considered a win for Kuma.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> I don't really see how he is useful considering most of what was shown he can do is just change his size/scale. Did he do some special shit or are we just basing his ability to the statement that his Miracle is an NLF ability that would make every thought he has a reality, if so then why didn't he just thought of everyone as dead?



He regenerates from pure energy and can share the damage his sword takes.



shade0180 said:


> Not really because of the likes of Kuma who can bfr him using distance rather than a dimension. And Kuma can touch intangibles.



That would just delay the problem thoug, if there's like 5 characters that can harm him and he can kill them just as easily.



shade0180 said:


> as I said NLF.
> 
> so if let say a planet level attacks him can he reflect it back? what about Star level? star system level? Galaxy level? universe level? are they going to be bounced back.



As long as it only hits the sword yeah because it doesn't bounce anything back, it uses reality warping to share the damage itself.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> as I said NLF.
> 
> so if let say a planet level attacks him can he reflect it back? what about Star level? star system level? Galaxy level? universe level? are they going to be bounced back.
> 
> ...


There are no star level characters in One Piece.

Kuma's BFR is sending them across the world, right? Lille stops that instantly by teleporting back. Why wouldn't he? Not like Kuma would ever get a chance to do that because he'd be in half when Lille gets the chicken arms.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Keishin said:


> There are no star level characters in One Piece.



There are character far stronger than him in one piece.

 that's my point and his limit is what less than city level? and you expect me to believe he can damage island level.



Keishin said:


> uma's BFR is sending them across the world, right?



Encase in a giant paw that cannot be escaped from.

well from what was shown.



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> As long as it only hits the sword yeah because it doesn't bounce anything back, it uses reality warping to share the damage itself.



as I said NLF.

Pretty sure it was damage reflection.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bad Wolf (Oct 19, 2017)

And Kuma never used his move against someone strong as lille who can even fly


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> as I said NLF.
> 
> where did the sword get the energy to produce that level of damage?



It's reality warping.


----------



## Esano (Oct 19, 2017)

Yeah everyone in bleach can also fly.
That would be useful.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It's reality warping.



So you are telling me the sword is durable enough to tank a universe level hit and would not get obliterated and if it gets obliterated it would still function after getting hit by universe level damage, are you serious?

I'm going to rephrase my question. Because that sword has been damage by lesser attacks.

This doesn't even matter at this point. It reflects damage.. Its limit is its durability.

Now if you tell me that it can bounce something higher than what it can withstand with its durability then I say bullshit.

That makes it NLF because we are now assuming the sword is unbreakable.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> There are character far stronger than him in one piece.


Basically what makes the island level Gerard impressive is 
1. When the hoffnung gets damage it will reflect it back
2. Gerard has insane regen, so he can get himself blasted into pieces no problem, cutting him in half is pre-vollstandig stuff.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> So you are telling me the sword is durable enough to tank a universe level hit and would not get obliterated and if it gets obliterated it would still function after getting hit by universe level damage, are you serious?
> 
> I'm going to rephrase my question. Because that sword has been damage by lesser attacks.
> 
> ...


The Miracle does not reflect damage unless its durability is bypassed, not because it's unbreakable lmao. If you can't chip the sword then it can't reflect damage. You got it backwards.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Keishin said:


> 1. When the hoffnung gets damage it will reflect it back




So it can reflect back whatever type of damage it took which equate to its durability.




Keishin said:


> . Gerard has insane regen, so he can get himself blasted into pieces no problem, cutting him in half is pre-vollstandig stuff.



And? that doesn't give him the ability to still fight someone stronger than him...



Keishin said:


> The Miracle does not reflect damage unless its durability is bypassed, not because it's unbreakable lmao. If you can't chip the sword then it can't reflect damage. You got it backwards.



What about complete obliteration of the sword.

 As I said so you are telling me that after getting obliterated to nothing it will still function for some reason?


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> durability.
> 
> So it can reflect back whatever type of damage it took which equate to its
> 
> ...


You mean far stronger characters that get scaled to higher shit right? Askin dropping Ichigo, Nanana paralyzing Aizen come to mind from hax working on stronger, country level characters.

When Hitsugaya cut it in half he said it would have fucked him up but the ability of DH nulled the Miracle from working. Though he can just summon the sword back at 100%, while he himself gets stronger.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Keishin said:


> while he himself gets stronger



So what's the difference with this and Hulk raging to multiverse level that we never accepted?

 oh right.. Bleach.



Keishin said:


> ou mean far stronger characters that get scaled to higher shit right?



Nope. I'm talking about the blade and how much damage it can coup up.

 why is there for some reason no limit to that? and for some reason everyone and any other fucker is okay with it.

See I don't see why the sword would still continue functioning after it disappears.. and for some reason that's accepted.

I even started with far higher output to test it and what did I get as an answer?

It can still magically function and damage the one who destroyed it even though technically nothing should be left of that blade..


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 19, 2017)

he has a limit but he can regen from energy, and his hoffnung reflects damage based on how much it takes. It uses the opponents power against it


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> how much it takes.



 and that's the limit, right??

how much it can take... So how much can it take?? obviously well below Island level.. so why would it output something higher than below island level.

I'm pretty sure you are shooting your own feet here and you still can't tell that you are doing it.



OneSimpleAnime said:


> he has a limit but he can regen from energy



So he has a limit, but he doesn't.

Basically this is what you just told us

 okay.....



OneSimpleAnime said:


> It uses the opponents power against it



Yes we are done with that. now tell us why would it continue functioning from a state where it is well obliterated, completely non-existent, dust, toast, or other shit that equate to those?


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> So what's the difference with this and Hulk raging to multiverse level that we never accepted?
> 
> oh right.. Bleach.


That's not what I'm saying though, and tbh I don't even care about Gerard. But the fact still stands that 3 island level characters couldn't defeat him.

The most effective abilities against One Piece are ofcourse going to be the water based ones of which there are 3
Halibel's resurreccion

Gremmy's opening move (and Gremmy's range of effect reaches distances out of the Seireitei boundaries)

And Shunsui's bankai


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Keishin said:


> The most effective abilities against One Piece are ofcourse going to be the water based ones of which there are 3
> Halibel's resurreccion
> *Spoiler*:
> Gremmy's opening move (and Gremmy's range of effect reaches distances out of the Seireitei boundaries)
> ...



 true that's going to fuck like 80%-90% of One Piece cast and the rest isn't strong enough to contend considering we haven't seen  a lot of strong character that doesn't have any devil fruit..  I think the closest we have is Jinbei? Kaidou could be, but it is still up in the air if he has a devil fruit or not considering his dream is to have an all Zoan Crew, which should include himself in the process.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 19, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> Well I guess it depends on what you consider "comparable" then. Yhwach is at like 115 teratons


Try four times that.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Keishin said:


> That's not what I'm saying though, and tbh I don't even care about Gerard.



 I don't too.

but seriously someone should discuss the NLF shit that onesimpleanime is feeding on this thread.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> ´
> 
> Yes we are done with that. now tell us why would it continue functioning from a state where it is well obliterated, completely non-existent, dust, toast, or other shit that equate to those?


Well since it's his ability you kind of expect it to work the same way both sides. The more damage the sword gets, the more damage the opponent get, the more damage Gerard gets, the stronger he becomes, and both share the similar trait that it doesn't matter (in Bleach) how much damage either of them get. 

Gerard getting cut in half:

*Spoiler*: __ 








Hoffnung getting cut in half:

High-end feat of the Miracle:


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Well since it's his ability you kind of expect it to work the same way both sides. The more damage the sword gets, the more damage the opponent get, the more damage Gerard gets, the stronger he becomes, and both share the similar trait that it doesn't matter (in Bleach) how much damage either of them get.



and?.. that would still be NLF to assume they wouldn't get destroyed after taking a damage from something that is stronger than what was shown.

 and it still doesn't answer the question of why the sword can still function after it is obliterated. Because I don't see it surviving even a single molecule after getting hit with something higher than island level or someshit.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 19, 2017)

Whitebeard's basically the only character with firepower exceeding the gigaton range as far as I know, so what does it matter?


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 19, 2017)

Hitsugaya cut his sword in half and it would have worked still, so it reflects any damage the blade takes. if the blade is destroyed the ability should still function.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Whitebeard's basically the only character with firepower exceeding the gigaton range as far as I know, so what does it matter?



It doesn't in this thread. considering this isn't whitebeard vs gerard.

 But well just see how much Onesimpleanime is pushing for it.


----------



## Foxve (Oct 19, 2017)

This reminds me of Itachi's yata mirror shield.....


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

Foxve said:


> This reminds me of Itachi's yata mirror shield.....


Thats only a statement not a feat. The susanoo blew up leaving Itachi bleeding face to the ground from Kirin, a nick on hoffnung was gutting Kenpachi.


----------



## Foxve (Oct 19, 2017)

It never destroyed it. It only destroyed the partial susanoo that Itachi briefly summoned. Itachi didn't use the mirror to block it. His fully formed susanoo had the mirror in his left hand. Unless I missed something?


----------



## Keishin (Oct 19, 2017)

Foxve said:


> It never destroyed it. It only destroyed the partial susanoo that Itachi briefly summoned. Itachi didn't use the mirror to block it. His fully formed susanoo had the mirror in his left hand. Unless I missed something?


We actually don't know and can only assume. 
The mirror is weird also because it's part of the susanoo but they act like it's a magical weapon hidden in some cave that Itachi happened to find.


----------



## Sherlōck (Oct 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Whitebeard's basically the only character with firepower exceeding the gigaton range as far as I know, so what does it matter?



One can argue every top tiers get the scaling especially Yonko's considering they used to fight WB regularly.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 19, 2017)

What even?

The extent of damage reflected by Gerard's sword is capped by its showings. I mean, unless you can argue conclusively that it operates on a mechanism that disregards conventional energy.

Would be hard given the half-assed exposition we got on Gerard's abilities.


----------



## JayDox (Oct 19, 2017)

Remember when WB used to solo Bleach and Naruto? That was like 2010 when I used to lurk


----------



## John Wayne (Oct 19, 2017)

Omniversal++ quakes never forget.


----------



## Revan Reborn (Oct 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Try four times that.


So when you gonna update that


----------



## Regicide (Oct 19, 2017)

When my boredom overpowers my laziness, probably

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Revan Reborn (Oct 19, 2017)

Regicide said:


> When my boredom overpowers my laziness, probably


Been saying that for years


----------



## Regicide (Oct 19, 2017)

Revan Reborn said:


> Been saying that for years


I rest my case


----------



## LazyWaka (Oct 19, 2017)

For those curious about whether or not this thread is banned. It depends.

Technically it's allowed provided enough has changed to make it interesting.

EDIT: Before anyone gets trigger-happy, we already had a BleachvNaruto thread after both series ended, meaning no more of those.

Double EDIT: Unless bleach somehow gets a spin-off series as well.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 19, 2017)

The amount of energy has nothing to do with the damage made to Hoffnung if it doesn't hit the whole sword, and the skill uses reality warping to share the damage, it doesn't bounce the energy back so there's no NLF.
That's why they made a difference between the sword abilities and simple destructive power.


His reactive evolution is caped at his shown level but hitting him harder wouldn't change that Gerard will again regenerate out of the surrounding energy.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Oct 19, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> His reactive evolution is caped at his shown level but hitting him harder wouldn't change that Gerard will again regenerate out of the surrounding energy.



"Miracles" can happen only so many times before they stop being "miracles".  Gerard got "killed" three times.  I imagine that a fourth death would have ended him for good (it kind of did, but Yhwach stole his power, so we won't know for certain).


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 19, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> "Miracles" can happen only so many times before they stop being "miracles". Gerard got "killed" three times. I imagine that a fourth death would have ended him for good (it kind of did, but Yhwach stole his power, so we won't know for certain).



Why would it?

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Oct 19, 2017)

Basically: You want DC ? Call One Piece.  You want Hax ? Call Bleach .

I'd say though that One Piece is going to probably cap off at High Continent, maybe if Oda makes what all of us want and Fujitora drops down a Moon, we'd get to Moon level. But I think it will probably be between mid and high continent level with multiple top tiers being like country level with not so much problem.

Hell, Luffy himself got a nice Island level-ish DC feat against Dofla but since we can't calc it, we have to use the "city level+". If it was suitabe to a calc I'd say it would probably be too high to city level too low to island(1.2 Gt probably).

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## B Rabbit (Oct 20, 2017)

Katakuri shits basically on everyone in Bleach by being a far more likeable pretty boy.

And his power is rice.


----------



## Xhominid (Oct 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> "Miracles" can happen only so many times before they stop being "miracles".  Gerard got "killed" three times.  I imagine that a fourth death would have ended him for good (it kind of did, but Yhwach stole his power, so we won't know for certain).



That's...kind of a reach there. I mean we can theorycraft on that but if we do, that will open up a whole new can of worms and seriously...let's not. I can literally pull out the "full potential" of The Balance and Anti-Thesis and Uryu and Haschwaldt utterly solos One Piece without not even moving a single finger past Haschwaldt needing to move his shield a bit.


----------



## shunsui1 (Oct 20, 2017)

Bleach wins by hax but let's not forget the power and versatility between a lot of the bleach characters who use power and speed to win. A lot of one piece would get out handle by byakuya, toshiro, and kenpachis team.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Linhtran (Oct 20, 2017)

In my honest opinion I see the Goro Goro no Mi devil fruit as the most powerful in the One Piece universe.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 20, 2017)

Law and Kizaru have the strongest fruits.


----------



## uchihakil (Oct 23, 2017)

bleach characters seem imo for now, they have more unbeatable hax like KS, Almighty, respira, the miracle etc

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Vermilion Kn (Oct 23, 2017)

Lillie soloes. No one in OP has a holy ping pong paddle.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Divell (Oct 23, 2017)

John Wayne said:


> Omniversal++ quakes never forget.


Quake vs White Beard incoming.


----------



## Daio (Oct 25, 2017)

Yhwach nukes the planet.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Daio said:


> Yhwach nukes the planet.


Yeah, i remember him totally doing that in the manga, that was cool....wait...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, i remember him totally doing that in the manga, that was cool....wait...


But we know he can do it with his range and abilities. How many times does he have to say it? The problem is the unknown amount of time he takes to do it, not whether or not he can or can't.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> But we know he can do it with his range and abilities. How many times does he have to say it? The problem is the unknown amount of time he takes to do it, not whether or not he can or can't.


Thus unquantifiable, thus unsuable. How many times do I have to say that ?

Besides, destroying the planet over time doesen't translate to nuking anything.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Daio (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, i remember him totally doing that in the manga, that was cool....wait...


I could say the same about many other scenerios in Anime/Manga.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Daio said:


> I could say the same about many other scenerios in Anime/Manga.


You very well could but we're talking about Yhwach. He's not nuking no planet. He doesen't have the power to do it.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Daio (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> But we know he can do it with his range and abilities. How many times does he have to say it? The problem is the unknown amount of time he takes to do it, not whether or not he can or can't.



Not really, he instantly engulfed Soul Society in reiatsu and by his own words, erasing Soul Society would have been as quick as erasing a half-dead Ichigo.


----------



## Daio (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> You very well could but we're talking about Yhwach. He's not nuking no planet. He doesen't have the power to do it.



He was in the process of erasing three worlds from separate dimensions and creating a new one. I think he has more than enough power to do so.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Daio said:


> Not really, he instantly engulfed Soul Society in reiatsu and by his own words, erasing Soul Society would have been as quick as erasing a half-dead Ichigo.


Oh boy, another one... Every month there's someone who comes here thinking he/she holds the key to the "secrets of Bleach" thus pushing Planet level Bleach, above planet level Bleach and in some retarded cases , Universal level Bleach. Let me save you some time. Planet level Bleach has been pushed before. It didn't fly. It won't fly this time.
He could only probably destroy the planet over an unquantifiable ammount of time and an unquantifiable ammount of energy. Because of that, it's unusable. The fact that he never did it is another nail in to coffin.
We do this shit for other series as well , so don't star victimising now.
Here, we value feats above character statements for obvious reasons.
Best Bleach can wish for is continental to maybe multi-continental depending on the Light Novels.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Dislike 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Thus unquantifiable, thus unsuable. How many times do I have to say that ?
> 
> Besides, destroying the planet over time doesen't translate to nuking anything.


You know, other than The Almighty visiting that future where it happens or spamming the amount of damage he's capable of doing (can't even debunk that).


----------



## Djomla (Oct 25, 2017)

Bleach is way too hax for One Piece to even hope to beat them.

Also, God Aizen solos the pirate verse.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> You know, other than The Almighty visiting that future where it happens or spamming the amount of damage he's capable of doing (can't even debunk that).


Still unquantifiable . If this was legit, it would have been accepted untill now. So, yeah,sorry.
Besides, this specific scans talks about "unifying the worlds" not nuking them
You're not making much of a case here.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Djomla said:


> Also, God Aizen solos the pirate verse


Jesus fucking Christ, this wank....
WB fucking nukes him to oblivion. Bleach wins this due to the Top Tiers but Condom Aizen soloing ?


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Still unquantifiable . If this was legit, it would have been accepted untill now. So, yeah,sorry.
> Besides, this specific scans talks about "unifying the worlds" not nuking them
> You're not making much of a case here.


He destroys both worlds to create something new.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> He destroys both worlds to create something new.


No, he doesen't. He only says he does.He's in the process of doing that.He didn't complete the process.The simple fact that he can't do it instantly renderes the whole nuking point useless. That's the thing.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> No, he doesen't. He only says he does.He's in the process of doing that.He didn't complete the process.The simple fact that he can't do it instantly renderes the whole nuking point useless. That's the thing.


The man has a planetary range without flexing.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> The man has a planetary range without flexing.


Planetary range is just range. Planetary range =/ destructive capcacity. Infinite Tsukuyomi has planetary range too. Does that mean it can nuke the planet?
Vaatu from Kora has planetary range too..Too bad he didn't to anything with it.
God ..do you people even common sense ?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Planetary range is just range. Planetary range =/ destructive capcacity. Infinite Tsukuyomi has planetary range too. Does that mean it can nuke the planet?
> Vaatu from Kora has planetary range too..Too bad he didn't to anything with it.
> God ..do you people even common sense ?


No, but unlike those "examples," Yhwach was about to, and did something with that range multiple times.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> No, but unlike those "examples," Yhwach was about to, and did something with that range multiple times.


Yeah, except he didn't. "About to it" doesen't mean shit.Even if he actually would have done it  a timeframe is needed in order to deduce the enegrgy it would have took to fuck up the planet.I'm sick of explaining this shit. It's like talking sense to a wall.
You just can't use this. It's simmilar to Father's Sun from FMA. He was about to use it but because he didn't he's still stuck at town level. That's the way things work.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Divell (Oct 25, 2017)

Is almost as if Yhwach didn't had a country+ calc with planetary range no? Literally he just need to sit there and target any part of the planet.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Divell said:


> Is almost as if Yhwach didn't had a country+ calc with planetary range no? Literally he just need to sit there and target any part of the planet.


Are you people fucking brain-dead. No one is doubting the fact that Yhwach had planetary range. The thing is you can't nuke a planet with Country lvl power and plnetary range. Jesus fucking Christ. You Bleach fans are something else...


----------



## Divell (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Are you people fucking brain-dead. No one is doubting the fact that Yhwach had planetary range. The thing is you can't nuke a planet with Country lvl power and plnetary range. Jesus fucking Christ. You Bleach fans are something else...


No one is nuking as in destroying the planet. We mean nuking as in causing damage all over the planet.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Divell said:


> No one is nuking as in destroying the planet. We mean nuking as in causing damage all over the planet.


Yeah, my fucking ass. This " discussion' started from someone claiming Yhwach could nuke the planet. Causing damage over the planet is =/ nuking or destroying it. It's also unquantifiable just like Father's mini-sun from FMA because he never used it. That's why he's still stuck at town level. Sucks for FMA and it sucks for Bleach.


----------



## Divell (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, my fucking ass. This " discussion' started from someone claiming Yhwach could nuke the planet. Causing damage over the planet is =/ nuking or destroying it. It's also unquantifiable just like Father's mini-sun from FMA because he never used it. That's why he's still stuck at town level. Sucks for FMA and it sucks for Bleach.


You're reaching here. Is shown he can cause a lot of damage and is shown he can target across the planetary range. He can cause damage all around it. Stop bringing examples of what is accepted or not when is not the same. You're bringing examples of people saying what someone could do. When Yhwach has shown he has the range to 


Divell said:


> causing damage all over the planet.


No one is talking about destroying the planet.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, except he didn't. "About to it" doesen't mean shit.Even if he actually would have done it  a timeframe is needed in order to deduce the enegrgy it would have took to fuck up the planet.I'm sick of explaining this shit. It's like talking sense to a wall.
> You just can't use this. It's simmilar to Father's Sun from FMA. He was about to use it but because he didn't he's still stuck at town level. That's the way things work.


Then that must mean that Father's sun (gravity, thermo energy w/e) couldn't have passed town level unless it did damage to an area.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Divell said:


> You're reaching here


The irony is staggering.


Divell said:


> Is shown he can cause a lot of damage and is shown he can target across the planetary range


Again, you fucking vegetable, no one is doubting that Yhwach has planetary range. 


Divell said:


> He can cause damage all around it


Unquantifiable damage.


Divell said:


> Stop bringing examples of what is accepted or not when is not the same


It's exactly the same. You're just doing mental gymnastics to justify your wank.


Divell said:


> You're bringing examples of people saying what someone could do


Literally what ? Father actually created that mini-sun. He didn't just state it. Bessides that's not even the point.


Divell said:


> When Yhwach has shown he has the range to


Range is fucking range. It doesen't mean anything. The thing he needs is DC.


Divell said:


> No one is talking about destroying the planet.


Except that one guy.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Then that must mean that Father's sun (gravity, thermo energy w/e) couldn't have passed town level unless it did damage to an area


??? Your point being ?


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, my fucking ass. This " discussion' started from someone claiming Yhwach could nuke the planet. Causing damage over the planet is =/ nuking or destroying it. It's also unquantifiable just like Father's mini-sun from FMA because he never used it. That's why he's still stuck at town level. Sucks for FMA and it sucks for Bleach.



He can destroy the planet in a time frame short enough as to be used as an attack, not that he needs to because he can easily control the current of energy that keeps everything existing, with his own reiatsu being a significant part of that. He is obviously planet level, not that there's any reason to argue that now tho



The SRE clear One Piece so the thread has run it's course

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He can destroy the planet in a time frame short enough as to be used as an attack, not that he needs to because he can easily control the current of energy that keeps everything existing, with his own reiatsu being a significant part of that. He is obviously planet level, not that there's any reason to argue that now tho


VSB would be proud to have you.  That's their logic 100% here. It's almost like you copy /pasted one of their posts.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> VSB would be proud to have you. That's their logic 100% here. It's almost like you copy /pasted one of their posts.





That he can control that much energy was the consensus of the last thread about his powers, last year.

The only hang up was if he could punch someone with that.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

Pre-SK Yhwach, Ichibei, Yamamoto, Mimihagi and implied Aizen and ofcourse the SK, Mimihagi being a part of it, all have *some* forms of direct planetary range feats.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Oh well, keep circlejerking and banging your heads against the wall. Not like it will change anything.
The previous 50 tries are proof of that.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 25, 2017)

There's nothing to be done if people is still salty about a children comic book to the point of arguie it's characters are not "deserving" of something


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There's nothing to be done if people is still salty about a children comic book


Tell..me about it, all of those people pushin and pushing and pushing big time... It's time to stop. Like you said, just a children's comic book.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Tell..me about it, all of those people pushin and pushing and pushing big time... It's time to stop. Like you said, just a children's comic book.



Yeah, it's time to stop pushing for things like shunpo being slower than free fall


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Yeah, it's time to stop pushing for things like shunpo being slower than free fall


Word.Let's also stop Planet lvl, Planet lvl + and Universal lvl Bleach.
Shit's embarassing.


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 25, 2017)

The world of the living was shaking and huge parts of SS were being engulfed by Yhwach. Not to mention Yama's bankai is in the petaton range and Almighty Yhwach is >>> him.

This shit isn't hard to connect

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Word.Let's also stop Planet lvl, Planet lvl + and Universal lvl Bleach.
> Shit's embarassing.



Yeah, until the next Hisagi novel where he shows his Bankai, that was too powerful so couldn't be used in the manga because it would lolstomp Ywach


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Yeah, until the next Hisagi novel where he shows his Bankai, that was too powerful so couldn't be used in the manga because it would lolstomp Ywach


Sure, let's wait.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> The world of the living was shaking and huge parts of SS were being engulfed by Yhwach. Not to mention Yama's bankai is in the petaton range and Almighty Yhwach is >>> him.
> 
> This shit isn't hard to connect


Pretty sure that calc had problems with it and wasn't completely accepted. Sherlock sure as shit didn't.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Yeah, until the next Hisagi novel



good luck with that

narita currently has far more problems on his hands than writing


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> good luck with that
> 
> narita currently has far more problems on his hands than writing


What happened ?


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> What happened ?


Either one serious infection or cancer.


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

What did I tell you about breathing on people sabes


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

...Oh man...that's horrible. Another writer suffering from another illness. The thing that sucks is that this isn't even suprising anymore...


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

Kurou said:


> What did I tell you about breathing on people sabes


You're about to catch these hands, fam


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> You're about to catch these STDS, fam



No thanks

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> good luck with that
> 
> narita currently has far more problems on his hands than writing



He announced in July he wasn't going to write the next part up until next year but it's the first time I hear he's sick, I tough he was just focusing on his new manga. But it wouldn't surprise me seeing the work schedule of authors in Japan.

If he's sick I hope it's not something serious.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

Dat 20 kilometer tall tower


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 25, 2017)

It's pointless to scale buildings from panoramic views if Kubo isn't drawing with that in mind 


There's a fucking mountain range inside the Seireitei

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Pretty sure that calc had problems with it and wasn't completely accepted. Sherlock sure as shit didn't.


Yea cause people were arguing SS isnt a planet or some stupid shit, when the calc is a big lowball anyway.

the petatons came from a ~6 degree temp change as a lowball, but Yama's bankai was so hot people were getting dehydrated and Hitsu couldnt even make any ice with his Zanpakutou.


----------



## CrownedEagle (Oct 25, 2017)

Bleach Verse stomp for now, i don't see any One Piece characters competing with most top tier like Yammamoto, Gremmy or Adult Hitsugaya, let alone monster like Lille or Ichibei... superior speed and too much haxx for Op Verse to handle.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> The world of the living was shaking and huge parts of SS were being engulfed by Yhwach. Not to mention Yama's bankai is in the petaton range and Almighty Yhwach is >>> him.
> 
> This shit isn't hard to connect


Technically, the petatons don't apply to Yama in any practical sense, as far as we know. It's just the total amount of energy contained in his bankai (or at least, the amount it would have at a minimum). It's significantly primarily because the number can be used as a pivot for Mugetsu.

I mean in theory, he could maybe pack all of his reiatsu and whatnot into a single attack like Ichigo did at the end of his fight with Byakuya, but that'd be a one-time deal.


reyatsuguy said:


> Pretty sure that calc had problems with it and wasn't completely accepted. Sherlock sure as shit didn't.


The only problems some people had with the calc was that it hinged on Soul Society being a planet, which some people are skeptical of for whatever reason.

I don't believe I ever received sufficient justification as to why our default cosmology assumption wouldn't apply in this case, or what series we've held to such a standard of scrutiny; conversely, a number of corroborating circumstantial evidence was brought up in turn.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Technically, the petatons don't apply to Yama in any practical sense, as far as we know. It's just the total amount of energy contained in his bankai (or at least, the amount it would have at a minimum). It's significantly primarily because the number can be used as a pivot for Mugetsu.
> 
> I mean in theory, he could maybe pack all of his reiatsu and whatnot into a single attack like Ichigo did at the end of his fight with Byakuya, but that'd be a one-time deal.
> The only problems some people had with the calc was that it hinged on Soul Society being a planet, which some people are skeptical of for whatever reason.
> ...


it's basically the same as his old country level suicide calc


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Yes, but the basic premise is different. The original concept modeled his bankai as building up to a big explosion, whereas this is basically.. global warming on steroids.

The first model wasn't exactly a suicide attack per se either way.

Reactions: Informative 2


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Technically, the petatons don't apply to Yama in any practical sense, as far as we know. It's just the total amount of energy contained in his bankai (or at least, the amount it would have at a minimum). It's significantly primarily because the number can be used as a pivot for Mugetsu.


Even 1% of that would be country level.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Even 1% of that would be country level.


Yes, technically, but is he really going to put a whole hundredth of his total energy into a given attack? With how many blows that can be exchanged in a single fight, that seems like it'd be rather inefficient, even if it initially sounds small.


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Even 1% of that would be country level.




1% of ur moms body fat is country level too


----------



## Xhominid (Oct 25, 2017)

Honestly with the novels proving that Yhwach did a good amount of damage to the World of the Living during his chance to destroy and meld the worlds together, when the Soul King died, the World of the Living was clearly destabilizing with world wide earthquakes and Yhwach was clearly in control of the Soul King's power combined with his TK ability and huge ass range, it's ridiculous to pretend anymore that Yhwach cannot atleast be Planet Level in his Soul King form.

This isn't like Solar System Buster Super Perfect Cell in which the only thing we have to go on is numerous material saying he is but all we see is just the fact that the planet could be ripped to shreds during his and Gohan's beam struggle, there's too much proof backing Soul King Yhwach being a planet buster(or at the very least, a planet wiper at absolute worst) because even if we take that the Soul King's power is mainly limited to keeping the regulation of souls going, the fact that the Noble Families picked him to meld the worlds into 3 and Ichigo being chosen as the next Soul King even past Yhwach before absorbing the Soul King kinda does put the massive amount of reiatsu as a prereq...


----------



## Sherlōck (Oct 25, 2017)

Remember when people expected Soul King to be some awesome character?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

No 



Rukia should have become Soul Queen tho

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Technically, the petatons don't apply to Yama in any practical sense, as far as we know. It's just the total amount of energy contained in his bankai (or at least, the amount it would have at a minimum). It's significantly primarily because the number can be used as a pivot for Mugetsu.
> 
> I mean in theory, he could maybe pack all of his reiatsu and whatnot into a single attack like Ichigo did at the end of his fight with Byakuya, but that'd be a one-time deal.
> The only problems some people had with the calc was that it hinged on Soul Society being a planet, which some people are skeptical of for whatever reason.
> ...


Because it's not a terrestrial planet


----------



## Sherlōck (Oct 25, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Rukia should have become Soul Queen tho


Rangiku disagrees.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> Rangiku disagrees.



Queen of THOTS maybe


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Because it's not a terrestrial planet


Being another world merely opens up the possibility that its cosmology substantially differs from ours. There's no actual points that suggest this as far as I've been made aware.

So failing that, I'd like to know where we've demanded this kind of thing for other series.


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

She could be the royal whore


She'd be the dutchess of comfort

Reactions: Lewd 1


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

I like Rangiku


she just isn't royalty material


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Being another world merely opens up the possibility that its cosmology substantially differs from ours. There's no actual points that suggest this as far as I've been made aware.
> 
> So failing that, I'd like to know where we've demanded this kind of thing for other series.


Being another world means it's not Earth, aka a whole different area of space. There is no default to auto compare it to earth like world of the living. So like in the thread, you have the burden of proof to prove it's analogous. I've never seen other non earth parallelled series benefit so idk why you're bringing that up.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Divell (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> The irony is staggering.


Don't know what you're talking about.



> Again, you fucking vegetable, no one is doubting that Yhwach has planetary range.


At least you're conscious of that fact. And if you want to start with name calling just tell me, I literally got nothing better to do. 



> Unquantifiable damage.


Use your head. Kinetic energy is a thing. And he can use his telekinesis to send a shock wave across the planet and even if the damage is only 0.1% of his real power he would still be above the island lv+.



> It's exactly the same. You're just doing mental gymnastics to justify your wank.


What wank? He can sent a shock wave across the planet and kill everyone. 



> Literally what ? Father actually created that mini-sun. He didn't just state it. Bessides that's not even the point.


What's not the point. You can't even bring an actual example, you frustrate yourself and start calling names because no one 



> Range is fucking range. It doesen't mean anything. The thing he needs is DC.


Dude. He got country lv and a range of 7.007093741205537e+40m2 our planet has 162358564000000m2 Yhwach's power is 130 TeraTon. 

He can send shock waves in all directions all day and boom you got him nuking the planet killing any high or less tiers.

Even if we divide it all that to cover the planet we end up with
(481 263 182 183 222 700 417 550.48 joules) / (162 358 564 000 000 square meters) = 2.96419955 × 10^9 kg·(m/s2) all across the planet per telekinetic shock wave he sends across the planet. To put it on perspective, Jupiter produces 24.79 m/s² in its Gravity. 

More than enough to literally kill any high tier or below excluding of course the top tiers in OP.



> Except that one guy.


What guy?


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> it's ridiculous to pretend anymore that Yhwach cannot atleast be Planet Level in his Soul King form.


Except it's not if we actually follow the rules we have. Most of the "evidence" you have is either unquantifiable , never happened in the manga (it was only stated) or it's a far cry away from actuall planet level (Planet lvl >>petatons)
It's really just wishfull thinking on your part. I mean if you want to loosen the evidence needed to accpet shit in here, that's fine but other series should benefiet from that too.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## GiveRobert20dollars (Oct 25, 2017)

Replying to drivell posts in 2017

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

ikr


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Divell said:


> Don't know what you're talking about.


I know you don't.


Divell said:


> At least you're conscious of that fact. And if you want to start with name calling just tell me, I literally got nothing better to do


Settle down sailor. 


Divell said:


> Use your head. Kinetic energy is a thing. And he can use his telekinesis to send a shock wave across the planet and even if the damage is only 0.1% of his real power he would still be above the island lv+


I see no rebuttal or something that countered my point in any way ..


Divell said:


> What wank? He can sent a shock wave across the planet and kill everyone


Yeah, too bad it never happened and you can't quantify it. 


Divell said:


> Dude. He got country lv and a range of 7.007093741205537e+40m2 our planet has 162358564000000m2 Yhwach's power is 130 TeraTon.
> 
> He can send shock waves in all directions all day and boom you got him nuking the planet killing any high or less tiers.
> 
> ...


That' beautifull and all that but i never argued about Yhwach not being able to deal with OP's cast. I just tackled the Yhwach can nuke the planet. How many times do i have to tell you that ?
I have no problem with Yhwach beating OP or with a continental lvl Yhwach. Planet lvl Yhach though ? No .


Divell said:


> What guy


The one who said Yhwach could nuke the planet. That newb guy...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Being another world means it's not Earth, aka a whole different area of space.


Yes, and I acknowledge that this opens up the possibility that its cosmology is different, but our modus operandi has never been to use this in and of itself to disqualify a given setting. We've always, as far I know, only done that after there's actual, tangible evidence that the cosmology might differ.

This is why I ask for precedent, because what you keep demanding defies my understanding of our standards of evidence.

If you believe that I'm trying to push an exception to an established rule, you should be able to provide precedent with no issues.


Dr. White said:


> There is no default to auto compare it to earth like world of the living.


Again, you shouldn't need to.


Dr. White said:


> I've never seen other non earth parallelled series benefit so idk why you're bringing that up.


I'm fairly certain both Demon Soul's and Bloodborne have been given the doubt on at least some aspects of our cosmology, despite being otherworldly or otherwise some form of supernatural in nature, though my knowledge of either work isn't detailed enough to give an extensive analysis on that point.

@Nighty the Mighty
@ChaosTheory123

Little help here? You guys know more about these settings than I would. Am I off-base, or no?

Though even with as fucked as Dark Souls is with its setting, how comparable the First Flame is to our star has been a discussion up on the table for ages. 

Granted, there are probably other series to work with besides these (I'm sure there's at least one isekai that's been used or evaluated without having, say, a global shot or something). These are just the first that come to mind off the top of my head.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

The first Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games might be a decent example, what with Rayquaza benefiting from a seemingly life-wiping meteor. There's no global views in that one or anything, at least if I remember correctly.

Does anyone know if the various PMD games share continuity with one another?


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> The first Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games might be a decent example, what with Rayquaza benefiting from a seemingly life-wiping meteor. There's no global views in that one or anything, at least if I remember correctly.
> 
> Does anyone know if the various PMD games share continuity with one another?


Pokemon exist on a planet... one we have had maps of for a long ass time. I don't understand how you are failing to see the difference between that and Soul Society at an inherent existential level

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> IYou only scale something if it is a stories analogous version to our own regardless if supernatural shit exist there.


That's the thing. Your standard of evidence contradicts my own understanding of ours.

This is why I keep asking you to bring up examples, because I want to reconcile this.


Dr. White said:


> Pokemon exist on a planet... one we have had maps of for a long ass time. I don't understand how you are failing to see the difference between that and Soul Society at an inherent existential level


Pokemon Mystery Dungeon =/= mainline Pokemon.

I understand we have planetary shots and globes and whatnot for mainline Pokemon, and I believe that Super Mystery Dungeon has shots that confirm it specifically takes place on a planet, but I haven't played enough of the series to know whether the various games are connected to one another and/or take place within the same universe.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Divell (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> I know you don't.
> 
> Settle down sailor.
> 
> ...


It depends. How much energy your need to damage the core enough for the planet to kill itself?


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> I'm fairly certain both Demon Soul's and Bloodborne have been given the doubt on at least some aspects of our cosmology,



Dark Souls is in some doubt at any rate being somewhat reflective of more mythological cosmologies than our modern understanding

Bloodborne is fine, though Juub had some questions that I cleared up for him and he cleared up himself by reading up the lore *shrugs*

Demon's Souls is a question mark, but only because the descriptor of "reality" can vary from shit the size of a world to a universe and I'm not about to claim universal monumentals until @ThanatoSeraph gets around to translating the raw japanese

I know they do dialogue in english, but that doesn't mean the japanese they use in text fits the words being said *shrugs*



> Though even with as fucked as Dark Souls is with its setting, how comparable the First Flame is to our star has been a discussion up on the table for ages.



Its basically something we're (or at least I am) avoiding until we have actual time to hammer it out

Tentatively, you can probably ascribe the energy the Sun exerts per second to the First Flame as it serves the same function as our Sun and even seems to be the cause of it hanging in the sky, but that needs more hammered out before anything worthwhile can be gotten from it *shrugs*

Reactions: Informative 2


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

That's relatively informative, I think. 

Basically, I ask because I have a vague understanding that at some of the three verses were compared to the cosmology of our own reality in some respect, despite there being some weird fundamental aspects of their respective settings (?).

And the current discussion pertains to whether or not we assume by default that a work takes place on a planet if the setting is otherworldly in nature or what have you.


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 25, 2017)

SS is also called a parallel to earth, and it has at least as many dead people as alive people. Not to mention all the plants and animals and shit, unless you think all that is crammed into an area the size of Germany or whatever was said in the calc thread.

I dont see a reason why we wouldnt assume its a planet like earth when it even has a day and night cycle like ours.


----------



## Xhominid (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Except it's not if we actually follow the rules we have. Most of the "evidence" you have is either unquantifiable , never happened in the manga (it was only stated) or it's a far cry away from actuall planet level (Planet lvl >>petatons)
> It's really just wishfull thinking on your part. I mean if you want to loosen the evidence needed to accpet shit in here, that's fine but other series should benefiet from that too.



Well I'm sorry but I really see nothing unquantifiable out of that unless you specifically remove the novels mentioning it even further now. It's really not wishful thinking when I put up the obvious difference and it's basically night and day.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> I understand we have planetary shots and globes and whatnot for mainline Pokemon, and I believe that Super Mystery Dungeon has shots that confirm it specifically takes place on a planet, but I haven't played enough of the series to know whether the various games are connected to one another and/or take place within the same universe.


On second thought, do I even need confirmation of continuity here? 

I'm pretty sure we gave Rayquaza's meteor destruction in Red/Blue Rescue Team the greenlight long before any orbital shots showed up in the following games, which would probably prove the same point regardless.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Well I'm sorry but I really see nothing unquantifiable out of that unless you specifically remove the novels mentioning it even further now. It's really not wishful thinking when I put up the obvious difference and it's basically night and day.


That's no problem, let me help you with that.
1. Timeframe for Yhwach destroying and re-building the world.
2. The ammount of energy needed for Yhwach to do that.
3. The ammount of energy needed to keep shit in ballance.
...etc
Just to point it out again, it also never happened becuase he got intreruped.
If the Yama bankai gets accepted , Yhwach is gonan be continental lvl. Continental + even seeing he's much stronger than Yama. The distance,however, from continental to planetary is too big to accept Yhwach jumping from continental to planetary with just statements and unquantifiable shit.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> If the Yama bankai gets accepted , Yhwach is gonan be continental lvl.


Er, like I said earlier, this is not necessarily true.

He could be because of that, but I don't know if the pieces line up together in that matter.


----------



## Sherlōck (Oct 25, 2017)

Did Y-Hack ever use Yama's bankai in battle? 

Shouldn't he be able to use it?


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

There's no reason he can't use it, he even directly suggests showing it off to Yama after stealing it. He just didn't, presumably because his own abilities were sufficient.


----------



## Sherlōck (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> presumably his own abilities were sufficient.


Is that why he got cucked by Aizen & Ichigo?


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Er, like I said earlier, this is not necessarily true.
> 
> He could be because of that, but I don't know if the pieces line up together in that matter.


Tbh..it feels like a safe bet considering the difference in power between them. IIRC, you said you have other unfinished calcs pushing Yhwach towards continenta anyway.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Tbh..it feels like a safe bet considering the difference in power between them.


I don't know if I'm comfortable with this kind of assertion. Just because one character is much more powerful than another, it doesn't necessarily mean he can replicate normally what another character needs a lot of effort to accomplish (or in this case, all of his available energy to accomplish).

It could be the case, certainly, but it's not something we can definitively prove.


reyatsuguy said:


> IIRC, you said you have other unfinished calcs pushing Yhwach towards continenta anyway.


This much is true, but you shouldn't make arguments based on math that basically doesn't exist and nobody can verify.


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> SS is also called a parallel to earth, and it has at least as many dead people as alive people. Not to mention all the plants and animals and shit, unless you think all that is crammed into an area the size of Germany or whatever was said in the calc thread.
> 
> I dont see a reason why we wouldnt assume its a planet like earth when it even has a day and night cycle like ours.


It was never called a parallel in size or composition. The context was in regards to life cycle in which yes, it is a parallel to earth as souls go from earth to ss, and dead souls go back. You can't take that contextual comparison and try to claim it means SS is the same as earth

Having plants and animals does not mean it automatically os the same as earth. Having parts similar to earths whole does not mean the whole of SS is the same as earth, especially when speaking of composition when earth is like a great majority water unlike what we see in Ss. 

Wandering soul place is the largest portion of Ss and only has 380 districts. Having the same amount of souls means little when human beings don't take up nearly the amount of landmass on earth and the landmass being utterly dwarfed by the water mass. So yes SS being the size of one to several countries is perfectly fine. The only piece of evidence in favor is ichibei's ri statement which could not only be hyperbole but subject to the weirdness of SS being an afterlife dimension and not a planet, for all we know the RP could have that amount of empty space, doesn't auto equate it to earths water composition.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Wandering soul place is the largest portion of Ss


Has this actually been explicitly stated? If yes, when and where?


Dr. White said:


> The only piece of evidence in favor is ichibei's ri statement which could not only be hyperbole


Why would you be speaking in a hyperbolic fashion to someone who you're about to physically demonstrate the supposed hyperbole to?

Why would you be speaking in a hyperbolic fashion about something that could be refuted by anyone if it were mere exaggeration, while delivering your description in a matter of fact manner the whole time?


Dr. White said:


> but subject to the weirdness of SS being an afterlife dimension


What weirdness, exactly? We keep falling back to this, but there's no actual explicit weirdness that I've been made aware of.


----------



## DarkTorrent (Oct 25, 2017)

wasn't SS and the world of the living shown to be planets of similar size in some movie that was made canon? 

@Regicide, @Sablés


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

You fucked up at summoning @Sablés, DT.

And yes, the first movie was retcon'd into continuity. There hasn't been any extensive discussion as to what the consequences of that are, though.


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Has this actually been explicitly stated? If yes, when and where?
> Why would you be speaking in a hyperbolic fashion to someone who you're about to physically demonstrate the supposed hyperbole to?
> 
> Why would you be speaking in a hyperbolic fashion about something that could be refuted by anyone if it were mere exaggeration, while delivering your description in a matter of fact manner the whole time?
> What weirdness, exactly? We keep falling back to this, but there's no actual explicit weirdness that I've been made aware of.


Because people do this all the time? "I'll blw you up and this whole planet!" "I now have enough ki to blow up the solar system!", " this attack will hit you faster than the speed of light!". Ichibei could have very well just meant he was goong to send ywach extremely far. Although I will give you the specifics do add in favor of it not being hyperbole, it's just very weak to try and use this in fight claim to then try and scale the dimension thousands of times over the size we've actually seen of SS.

The weirdness of it being a supernatural afterlife dimension... it's not subject to all the same laws that earth would be hence why they can have floating castles and the matter that makes up the place can be used to do shit like make ice dragons and steel cutting rose petals...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## OrangePeel (Oct 25, 2017)

Why would we assume it's something other than an earth-like planet when it hasn't shown any oddities?


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

Kurou said:


> 1% of ur moms body fat is country level too


U dumb ^ (use bro), I'm sables

You're looking for Croc.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

woah woah woah

back the fuck up



How?


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Planet lvl Yhach though ? No .
> 
> The one who said Yhwach could nuke the planet. That newb guy...


The problem with your statement is that Yhwach is 100% confirmed planet buster, he just has to kill himself first


----------



## Adamant soul (Oct 25, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> Why would we assume it's something other than an earth-like planet when it hasn't shown any oddities?



Because Hueco Mundo is entirely a desert wasteland in perpetual darkness. So we'd need evidence soul society is an earth like planet because we have an in-universe example of something that very clearly isn't


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> Did Y-Hack ever use Yama's bankai in battle?
> 
> Shouldn't he be able to use it?



No because he's retarded/didn't need it/Kubo's a hack

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> Why would we assume it's something other than an earth-like planet when it hasn't shown any oddities?


Because earth is a naturally created planet , while SS is not? 

Would you scale the afterlife of dragonball z to earth because it has clouds, and king kai has his own mini earth?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> The weirdness of it being a supernatural afterlife dimension... it's not subject to all the same laws that earth would be hence why they can have floating castles


As I keep reiterating, the royal palace _is an artificial construct_. It has absolutely no relevance or significance to the grander setting, because it was built and put there by people. It's not a natural phenomenon.


Dr. White said:


> and the matter that makes up the place can be used to do shit like make ice dragons and steel cutting rose petals...


Except the matter that makes up the place _can't_ do that. The matter in Soul Society functions as matter unless someone who explicitly has the ability to break it down and convert it into energy.. converts it into energy.


Dr. White said:


> Because earth is a naturally created planet , while SS is not?


You realize that Earth and Soul Society literally have the same origin, yes?


----------



## DarkTorrent (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> There hasn't been any extensive discussion as to what the consequences of that are, though.



perhaps it's time to have an extensive discussion on this matter

since it can lead to putting the question of SS size finally to rest


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> The problem with your statement is that Yhwach is 100% confirmed planet buster, he just has to kill himself first


Ok. I obviously wasted all my time trying to explain shit here... 
My fault really. You can talk to a wall, but the wall won't listen....

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> As I keep reiterating, the royal palace _is an artificial construct_. It has absolutely no relevance or significance to the grander setting, because it was built and put there by people. It's not a natural phenomenon.
> Except the matter that makes up the place _can't_ do that. The matter in Soul Society functions as matter unless someone who explicitly has the ability to break it down and convert it into energy.. converts it into energy.
> You realize that Earth and Soul Society literally have the same origin, yes?


Yes but the fact that it exist as a floating structure in the air is an inherent oddity.

Bruh what do you mean? Reishi is clearly different than regular matter, both which can be broken down into energy but can you make an ice dragon with regular matter converted to energy? It's inherently different than the matter that makes up earth... lest people could do the same with natural matter instead of spirit matter.

So you're telling me the SS was made from a solar nebula that accredted over billions of years in a seperate dimension from that of earth into it's own planetoid of similar size and composition? Scans please.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> perhaps it's time to have an extensive discussion on this matter
> 
> since it can lead to putting the question of SS size finally to rest


There would have to be a lot of proof that it was in the actual continuanity. Oda supervised strong world and even wrote the initial events transpiring into the manga via chapter 0, but we don't take the movie events as canon.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> So you're telling me the SS was made from a solar nebula that accredted over billions of years in a seperate dimension from that of earth into it's own planetoid of similar size and composition? Scans please.


How about no?

The human world, SS and HM were originally the same world. The balance of souls is what separated them into three or at least that's what the narrative tells us.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Because people do this all the time? "I'll blw you up and this whole planet!" "I now have enough ki to blow up the solar system!", " this attack will hit you faster than the speed of light!". Ichibei could have very well just meant he was goong to send ywach extremely far. Although I will give you the specifics do add in favor of it not being hyperbole, it's just very weak to try and use this in fight claim to then try and scale the dimension thousands of times over the size we've actually seen of SS.
> 
> The weirdness of it being a supernatural afterlife dimension... it's not subject to all the same laws that earth would be hence why they can have floating castles and the matter that makes up the place can be used to do shit like make ice dragons and steel cutting rose petals...


Hyorinmaru controls the weather not reishi... It doesn't matter if a shinigami fights in WotL or SS, nothing would change (and clearly Uryu has no problem making a bow in the WotL either).


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> How about no?
> 
> The human world, SS and HM were originally the same world. The balance of souls is what separated them into three or at least that's what the narrative tells us.


So once again, scans please.


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Hyorinmaru controls the weather not reishi... It doesn't matter if a shinigami fights in WotL or SS, nothing would change (and clearly Uryu has no problem making a bow in the WotL either).


None of this is relevant to my point


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Yes but the fact that it exist as a floating structure in the air is an inherent oddity.


No, it's fucking not.

It was put there, in the air, by people. It doesn't float there by sheer virtue of its own existence.


Dr. White said:


> both which can be broken down into energy but can you make an ice dragon with regular matter converted to energy?


Nobody can do this in-universe either. And if we had the technology to freely transform energy into matter and vice versa, then frankly we probably could do that if we cared to.

It's irrelevant, anyways. The matter is matter unless someone explicitly does something special to it so that it's not matter, but that's not on the matter, that's on the individuals who have that capability.


Dr. White said:


> So you're telling me the SS was made from a solar nebula that accredted over billions of years in a seperate dimension from that of earth into it's own planetoid of similar size and composition? Scans please.


Please both read up on your lore and stop putting words in my mouth.

Earth and Soul Society diverged off the same thing, at the same time. You might call it something similar to a cosmic Pangaea situation, if you wish.


----------



## Adamant soul (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Bruh what do you mean? Reishi is clearly different than regular matter, both which can be broken down into energy but can you make an ice dragon with regular matter converted to energy? It's inherently different than the matter that makes up earth... lest people could do the same with natural matter instead of spirit matter.



I agree that we need more evidence Soul Society is the same size as Earth but this argument doesn't work. Reishi is just a substitute for atoms, the same way data is in the digital world in Digimon, the fact spirit beings and Digimon can manipulate their world's make up in ways we can't with atoms doesn't prove the general size of the world would be any different. 

Though Digimon treating the human world as if it were made of data and spirit beings not doing the same thing is a solid argument.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Speaking of Digimon, don't we generally assume that the Digital World (or at least the portions of it that are relevant to the plot) is a planet or some such? How many series have actually depicted their respective Digital Worlds with orbital views?


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> No, it's fucking not.
> 
> It was put there, in the air, by people. It doesn't float there by sheer virtue of its own existence.
> Nobody can do this in-universe either. And if we had the technology to freely transform energy into matter and vice versa, then frankly we probably could do that if we cared to.
> ...


I'll give you the castle argument cause i guess it can be similar to generic middle aged lore castles that float in the sky on earth like planets.

The matter is qualitatively different... hence why one is "spirit matter" which enables spiritual beings to perform upernatural shit, and the other does not for both humans made of the same matter or the spiritual beings themselves. So saying "they are both matter" while ignoring the qualitative differences is bs.

I was trying to read up on it hence why I asked for scans of what you were talking about. You didn't post them.


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> I agree that we need more evidence Soul Society is the same size as Earth but this argument doesn't work. Reishi is just a substitute for atoms, the same way data is in the digital world in Digimon, the fact spirit beings and Digimon can manipulate their world's make up in ways we can't with atoms doesn't prove the general size of the world would be any different.
> 
> Though Digimon treating the human world as if it were made of data and spirit beings not doing the same thing is a solid argument.


Well idk much about digimon but if the data world was directly modeled after our world, and or we had orbital views then I don't see the problem, leat I would argue the same thing I am here about that world.

I also remember shade beinging up some argument about a planet in digimon not being accepted as planet size because it was apparently like town sized or some shit?


----------



## Adamant soul (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Speaking of Digimon, don't we generally assume that the Digital World (or at least the portions of it that are relevant to the plot) is a planet or some such? How many series have actually depicted their respective Digital Worlds with orbital views?



Adventure, Frontier and Savers. Tamers and Xros Wars are the only ones where the digital world doesn't match ours in it's layout though Xros Wars stil confirms the digital world is much older and larger than ours and there's no reason to assume Tamers isn't at least as big as ours.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

Why has every thread about blech in recent times devolved into talking about the soul king twerking and shaking the planets or w/e


Like goddamn get some new material


----------



## Adamant soul (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> I also remember shade beinging up some argument about a planet in digimon not being accepted as planet size because it was apparently like town sized or some shit?



That was a planet created by a Digimon called Vadermon (who had his own pocket universe and could create "planets and stars") that Atlurkabuterimon blew up in their fight, not the actual digital world planet which is shown to match Earth in all but land layout.

Reactions: Informative 2


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

So SS HW and HM was separated to three so why are we assuming  bleach earth to be earth size again?

 Because bleach in most cases... people would have been throwing tantrum at this assumption, but not for bleach........... Seriously just asking this, if you separate a single object into three (original earth) why are we getting the same amount for the three and assume it is the same size as our real world counterpart?


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> So SS HW and HM was separated to three so why are we assuming  bleach earth to be earth size again?
> 
> Because bleach in most cases... people would have been throwing tantrum at this assumption, but not for bleach........... Seriously just asking this, if you separate a single object into three (original earth) why are we getting the same amount for the three and assume it is the same size as our real world counterpart?


Because it's separated into parallel dimensions not physical dimensions


----------



## ho11ow (Oct 25, 2017)

Isn't debate about planet level Yhwack because if he die then the living world would get crumbled? In obd they fight in neutral world(not in bleach verse) so isn't that planet level stuff means nothing?


----------



## Kurou (Oct 25, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Isn't debate about planet level Yhwack because if he die then the living world would get crumbled? In obd they fight in neutral world(not in bleach verse) so isn't that planet level stuff means nothing?




oh fucking snap


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Isn't debate about planet level Yhwack because if he die then the living world would get crumbled? In obd they fight in neutral world(not in bleach verse) so isn't that planet level stuff means nothing?



it isn't even him to begin with.

  it's more of a proverbial cork that's stopping 3 baths from merging into the same drain. doesn't mean the cork has the same mass as the water it was stopping from merging.

 but people can only think about anchors this days for a comparison, and my guess it is because you need a stronger anchor to stop a stronger and bigger ship. when there are other analogy to use, because people are thirsting to get dem upgrades.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> bullshit


No they're all in separate dimensions and don't physically interact.

Anyway. Bleach Earth replicates the real one perfectly. Even Britain is mentioned.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Even Britain is mentioned.



just because something is mentioned it doesn't mean it is equal.



Sablés said:


> No they're all in separate dimensions and don't physically interact.



but they combine physically.

bullshit...

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> but they combine physically.
> 
> bullshit...


We have no idea how the world merge, but they aren't in the same dimension.

which is why, you know? Shit like garganta are a thing.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> but they aren't in the same dimension.



and what if it is a different dimension

earth is separated into three.

 1 divided by 3 isn't going to net you the same 1. even if that shit separated dimensionally, universally or what ever the fuck kubo wants.

1 divided by 3 is going to net you just 1/3 not a whole 3 and for some other reason 2 more whole 3's.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> just because something is mentioned it doesn't mean it is equal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you serious? They mean the WotL is Connected to those when life and death became a thing, when they all become one those concepts stop existing... They're not "split" from a moon dropping on Earth creating 2 more moons.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Isn't debate about planet level Yhwack


Its not

yhwach has little to do with the current topic so idek why he's being brought up.


----------



## ho11ow (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> it isn't even him to begin with.
> 
> it's more of a proverbial cork that's stopping 3 baths from merging into the same drain. doesn't mean the cork has the same mass as the water it was stopping from merging.
> 
> but people can only think about anchors this days for a comparison, and my guess it is because you need a stronger anchor to stop a ship. when there are other analogy to use, because people are thirsting to get dem upgrades.


Oh, so isn't that just like Jirou(in toriko) stopping planet with supernova level of energy from explode but didn't get accepted with reason he stop the explossion with some kind of mechanic knocking shenanigan?


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Are you serious? They mean the WotL is Connected to those when life and death became a thing, when they all become one those concepts stop existing... They're not "split" from a moon dropping on Earth creating 2 more moons.



and yet we see the effect physically not conceptually.




ho11ow said:


> Oh, so isn't that just like Jirou(in toriko) stopping planet with supernova level of energy from explode but didn't get accepted with reason he stop the explossion with some kind of mechanic knocking shenanigan?



and? that's not the same here. also shoo with that go make your own thread.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and what if it is a different dimension
> 
> earth is separated into three.


more like, what was originally there wasn't Earth and the planet  as we know it came after

we haven't the slightest clue what the original world was like but for it to form requires destroying all 3 worlds in the first place.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> more like, what was originally there wasn't Earth and the planet as we know it came after



So basically bleach earth isn't built the same time as the universe? so why is it equated to real earth again?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Anyway. Bleach Earth replicates the real one perfectly. Even Britain is mentioned.


Origin may differ but its the same shit in the end.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and yet we see the effect physically not conceptually.


It was explained so what does it matter? That's just Bleach's lore of the afterlife anyway


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> It was explained so what does it matter? That's just Bleach's lore of the afterlife anyway



 so the lore of after life doesn't change that bleach earth was separated into three..

and we are getting 1 x 3 = 9.... someshit isn't right here..



Sablés said:


> rigin may differ but its the same shit in the end.



that doesn't mean we equate shit to be equal to the real world.

Death in DB and death in the real world are death doesn't mean they are the same..

Same shit in the end here, it is death.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

still waiting on scans.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> so the lore of after life doesn't change that bleach earth was separated into three..
> 
> and we are getting 1 x 3 = 9.... someshit isn't right here..
> 
> ...


They're not even made of the same matter so no matter what happened a "chunk" of earth couldn't have disappeared 
Copied to a parallel dimension though...


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Death in DB and death in the real world are death doesn't mean they are the same..
> 
> Same shit in the end here, it is death.


What the hell are you even going on about?

Bleach's Earth has the same customs, terrain and patterns as the real world. We're directly given reference to landmarks termed the exact same as ours to boot.

If this is the dumbass mental gymnastics i'm going to be seeing, I want no part of this discussion.


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

I see no problem with equating Bleach world to or Earth as it is a direct analog.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> I want no part of this discussion.



Go away then.


Sablés said:


> mental gymnastics



Mental gymnastic is when 1x3 = 9 is happening and everyone is accepting it.

 This is just telling you that something is wrong when you get that result.



Dr. White said:


> I see no problem with equating Bleach world to or Earth as it is a direct analog.



Well you are bias with your favorite series.


Sablés said:


> Bleach's Earth has the same customs, terrain and patterns as the real world. We're directly given reference to landmarks termed the exact same as ours to boot.


so doesn't mean it was the same scale Bleach earth could have a hollow inside for all I care.

 you have a full evidence that it is separated into three. that's all you need to know to understand that the earth isn't the same mass as the real world.

You guys have no problem using that separation to prove that yhwack can somehow influence 3 earth size planet but can't seem to grasp that it could also mean that something was taken out of earth to get that 3 separation from happening and we know that they are physically merging so what was taken is a physical mass to earth itself.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Mental gymnastic is when 1x3 = 9


Bruh, pull your head out of your ass.

You're assuming the original state of the world is Earth and then divided into 3. There is nothing whatsoever to support this. The original world as it stands has received no elaboration of the sort nor do we have the vaguest idea of what matter it was made of or its initial size.

All of which are required to make any sort of argument compared to everything against.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> The matter is qualitatively different... hence why one is "spirit matter" which enables spiritual beings to perform upernatural shit


Except it doesn't. The only people who can interact with the matter in question like you're suggesting are the people who explicitly have the ability to break it down into energy for their own purposes.


shade0180 said:


> So basically bleach earth isn't built the same time as the universe? so why is it equated to real earth again?


You know that thing in fiction where real life settings are generally assumed to be the same as reality aside from things that are explicitly noted?

This is that.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Go away then.
> 
> 
> Mental gymnastic is when 1x3 = 9 is happening and everyone is accepting it.
> ...


Yhwach can't "just" influence those 3 Dimensions, but also Dangai (exists in an entire different time) and it was also said that the Garganta (void out of space) could disappear too. So those valleys of the end dimensions will disappear too.


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Except it doesn't. The only people who can interact with the matter in question like you're suggesting are the people who explicitly have the ability to break it down into energy for their own purposes.
> You know that thing in fiction where real life settings are generally assumed to be the same as reality aside from things that are explicitly noted?
> 
> This is that.


Like every quincy...idk are you are seriously trying to posit that reishi and reatsu aren't qualitatively different than regular matter. Why can't humans interact with or see Spirit reapers without special exceptions like Ichigo?

I guess Danny phantom ghost matter is the same as regular matter?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Like every quincy...idk are you are seriously trying to posit that reishi and reatsu aren't qualitatively different than regular matter. Why can't humans interact with or see Spirit reapers without special exceptions like Ichigo?
> 
> I guess Danny phantom ghost matter is the same as regular matter?


Humans not seeing souls doesn't even need explanation. Then someone being dead would hold no weight...


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Bruh, pull your head out of your ass.
> 
> You're assuming the original state of the world is Earth and then divided into 3. There is nothing whatsoever to support this. The original world as it stands has received no elaboration of the sort nor do we have the vaguest idea of what matter it was made of or its initial size.
> 
> All of which are required to make any sort of argument compared to everything against.



then why are we equating it to real world earth and real world universe if this is the case?

We assumed that bleach earth has been the same as the real earth, We all agree here.

Now if you are telling me that its origin is different to the real world then shouldn't that assumption be thrown out the window like in every other series that does that to their premise.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> then why are we equating it to real world earth and real world universe if this is the case?


Gremmy showed it to you didnt he


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Gremmy showed it to you didnt he



I didn't get the joke, if it is a joke.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Like every quincy


Yes, glad to see we agree that the race who specifically has the ability to interact with the matter we're discussing has the ability to break it down for their purposes.

Nobody else can do this. This isn't a normal thing, and it's not an innate attribute of the environment or what have you.


Dr. White said:


> idk are you are seriously trying to posit that reishi and reatsu aren't qualitatively different than regular matter.


For practical and functional purposes, it isn't. It's different in the sense that it's not technically matter as in the material world, but it's identical within its own context.


Adamant soul said:


> and there's no reason to assume Tamers isn't at least as big as ours.


Wasn't Megidramon going to collapse the Digital World or something like that? Do we actually attribute that to him?


shade0180 said:


> then why are we equating it to real world earth and real world universe if this is the case?


Shade, what the hell are you talking about? Nobody is equating the original world to Earth, but everyone is equating Earth to Earth.

Though while we're on the subject, can I take a brief detour and note that space is still space for the ghost samurai?


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> but everyone is equating Earth to Earth.



and you guys just said that the origin of this earths differs from each other.

 so why are we still equating them?

before the separation reveal happened this is agreed upon. I have no problem with that.
But when the separation reveal happened and the origin story changed there's obviously no reason to continue the assumption that they are still the same as each other beyond their namesake.



Regicide said:


> pace is still space for the ghost samurai?



I have no clue what you meant by this.


----------



## Adamant soul (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Wasn't Megidramon going to collapse the Digital World or something like that? Do we actually attribute that to him?



He was going to collapse both worlds but no we don't attribute him to that because he has no control over that power and Beelzebumon was able to knock him out.

Dukemon/Gallantmon Crimson Mode however does get it because he has merged with the digital hazard (which was what was going to destroy both worlds) and has full control over it.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and you guys just said that the origin of this earths differs from each other.
> 
> so why are we still equating them?
> 
> ...


We're just going to go in a fucking circle, aren't we? We equate them because general convention is to assume things are the same unless otherwise noted.

In Halo, the entire galaxy was wiped of complex lifeforms and reseeded from scratch in prehistoric times, humanity included. Should I take this as a basis to assume that Elvis was into classical music?

Hell, I don't think this subject even matters that much in the grand scheme of things for Bleach.


Adamant soul said:


> Dukemon/Gallantmon Crimson Mode however does get it because he has merged with the digital hazard (which was what was going to destroy both worlds) and has full control over it.


Well, there we go then. There's our precedent.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and you guys just said that the origin of this earths differs from each other.
> 
> so why are we still equating them?
> 
> ...


They're still not physically split  The other is the Material World and the other is the Spiritual World. Different dimensions and getting to one carelessly could throw you off by decades.


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Humans not seeing souls doesn't even need explanation. Then someone being dead would hold no weight...


idk what you're even trying to say here.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> idk what you're even trying to say here.


What are you talking about


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 25, 2017)

Keishin said:


> What are you talking about


Humans can't interact or see the matter that soul reapers are made of. Therefore spirit matter is qualitatively different than regular matter. What is your post have to do with what I said?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Hell, I don't think this subject even matters that much in the grand scheme of things for Bleach.


It kind of does considering your premise is the earth and the other worlds involving it.





Regicide said:


> In Halo, the entire galaxy was wiped of complex lifeforms and reseeded from scratch in prehistoric times, humanity included. Should I take this as a basis to assume that Elvis was into classical music?



what does this have to do with the size of the planet? the thing in that is the origin of humanity or intelligent species.

The one in bleach is the origin of the earth... there's nothing even relative between the two.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Either way, you're not going to find a series around here given scrutiny like that.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

So Chad is Mexican (North America), knows Italian (South Europe) and lives in Japan (East Asia)


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> what does this have to do with the size of the planet? the thing in that is the origin of humanity or intelligent species.
> 
> The one in bleach is the origin of the earth... there's nothing even relative between the two.


Tell me that you're capable of making basic connections. No, it's not relevant to the size of the planet, but it _is_ relevant to our basic assumptions about a setting.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Either way, you're not going to find a series around here given scrutiny like that.



except we do.

 there's a lot of series where we don't assume earth to be earth, we do assume the planet to be earth size. as most sci-fi have you finding earth like planet to resolve that problem. but not when you separate said planet into three and still assume that planet is far larger than earth or even the same size as earth.

DB moon was contested until we found proof of Toriyama telling us that the moon is the same moon as the real world.



Regicide said:


> Tell me that you're capable of making basic connections. No, it's not relevant to the size of the planet, but it _is_ relevant to our basic assumptions about a setting.



the problem is your basic assumption of setting is already wrong to begin with.


----------



## Keishin (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> except we do.
> 
> there's a lot of series where we don't assume earth to be earth, we do assume the planet to be earth size. as most sci-fi have you finding earth like planet to resolve that problem. but not when you separate said planet into three and still assume that planet is far larger than earth or even the same size as earth.
> 
> DB moon was contested until we found proof of Toriyama telling us that the moon is the same moon as the real world.


Not split
Physically
It was split
Spiritually 
Size change does not happen


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> except we do.


And you'd be wrong.


shade0180 said:


> but not when you separate said planet into three and still assume that planet is far larger than earth or even the same size as earth.


_What_ "said planet"? Why do you keep talking like this?

You seem to have this retarded misconception that the original planet was like.. Earth Prime, and then it got split into Earth 2.0 and samurai Earth, even though nobody ever said this.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> _What_ "said planet"? Why do you keep talking like this?
> 
> You seem to have this retarded misconception that the original planet was like.. Earth Prime, and then it got split into Earth 2.0 and samurai Earth, even though nobody ever said this.



Again I'm not even assuming anything at all. I'm saying earth origin differs. So there's no earth prime as you so called it.

There is the planet that got separated into three, it could be earth or not for all I care.

But why would we assume it is 3 times as large as earth or even as large as the real earth?

our standard assumption is the planet is the same size as earth. that's literally the only assumption I am using.

then why would we assume the earth is still the same as real earth when you already tossed that premise from this story.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

Nobody ever said that. You are the one making all the assertions about how it must need to be such-and-such size and how this would impact the rest of the setting, and so forth.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> But why would we assume it is 3 times as large as earth?



That's _your _assumption as nobody here has stated such.

As I've stated repeatedly, the original world is 100% blank. Nobody has any idea what it was. It might not even be a planet or a celestial body at all, because the requirement for returning the worlds to that state and somehow merging them through dimensions is...destroying their mass.



> then why would we assume the earth is still the same as real earth when you already tossed that premise from this story.


Because its analogous to our own and there's nothing marked about its structure that would make us think differently.


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Nobody ever said that. You are the one making all the assertions about how it must need to be such-and-such size and how this would impact the rest of the setting, and so forth.



Then you can't say that yhwack is planet level or above or below that if you are dismissing the assertion I made base on what you want to give Yhwack.






Sablés said:


> That's _your _assumption as nobody here has stated such.



You don't need to state something when you are already implying it.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 25, 2017)

This discussion isn't even about Yhwach.


----------



## Sablés (Oct 25, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Then you can't say that yhwack is planet level or above or below that if you are dismissing the assertion I made base on what you want to give Yhwack.



What are you even talking about?

What does Yhwach even have to do with this topic?


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 25, 2017)

Sablés said:


> What are you even talking about?
> 
> What does Yhwach even have to do with this topic?



Pretty sure I joined this discussion when someone mention planet level yhwach.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 25, 2017)

Before the discussion about SS's size and shit there was a guy that said that Yhwach could blow up the planet. That's where it started.It's not relevant to the SS discussion in any way .


----------



## Divell (Oct 25, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> Is that why he got cucked by Aizen & Ichigo?


They didn't.


----------



## Daio (Oct 26, 2017)

@reyatsuguy Is it too late to reply to you?


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

Daio said:


> @reyatsuguy Is it too late to reply to you?


Depends. What do you want to say ?


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 26, 2017)

This thread 

Anyway Ywach is planet level, SS is a planet,the Earth is the Earth, it and SS are roughly the same size,and the SRE clear One Piece.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Anyway Ywach is planet level


Yeah, no. You people shoving your fingers in your years pretending not to hear shit and keep repeating : "Yhwach is planet lvl,Yhwach" is planet level ad nausem isn't going to make it true. Just like it wasn' true the first 50 times you tried to pull this shit.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 26, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, no. You people shoving your fingers in your years pretending not to hear shit and keep repeating : "Yhwach is planet lvl,Yhwach" is planet level ad nausem isn't going to make it true.



Since we might not get the final novel after all I will post why I think he is:
_Main criticism last time was that he didn't actually get around to destroying the worlds, now we know he created them in the first place.
_That we didn't know how long it would take, that's kind of obvius, fast enough to be used as an attack
_And that he is just controlling the soul current, when that's the same as controlling a planet+ level energy source and now we know a significant part of that is his own reiatsu. A slight lost of balance caused worldwide earthquakes in the real world, SS and HM, the severed right arm or the corpse of the soul king stopped that immediately, that is a continent level+ feat in itself.

Also, i'm pretty sure there's characters that get a DC from far more dodgy things like making storms and the like.

Not being able to precisely calc something isn't an argument when you have a character that created a planet saying he is going to destroy that same planet.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> now we know he created them in the first place


Yeah.. i doubt that . Source please.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That we didn't know how long it would take, that's kind of obvius, fast enough to be used as an attack


No it's not obvious at all. Attacks have charging times and different activation and firing times. Also source of this.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> And that he is just controlling the soul current, when that's the same as controlling planet+ level energy source and now we know a significant part of that is his own reiatsu


Unquantifiable.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> A slight lost of balance caused worldwide earthquakes in the real world, SS and HMevered right arm or the corpse of the soul king stopped that immediately, that is a continent level feat in itself


A far cry away from planet level.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Keishin (Oct 26, 2017)

It's not unquantifiable. It's the Energy that Yhwach utilizes. That's why he's capable of breaking the Shakonmaku or Aizen's chair that's created from Muken material despite not being able to do any more damage to Aizen himself than the Kurohitsugi - Yhwach has a different energy source from the rest.
The only thing shown capable of breaking shakonmaku walls is the Soul King's death.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

Keishin said:


> It's not unquantifiable. It's the Energy that Yhwach utilizes. That's why he's capable of breaking the Shakonmaku or Aizen's chair that's created from Muken material despite not being able to do any more damage to Aizen himself than the Kurohitsugi - Yhwach has a different energy source from the rest.
> The only thing shown capable of breaking shakonmaku walls is the Soul King's death.


So put some numbers into it. Go on.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 26, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah.. i doubt that . Source please.



That's the sin of the original noble heads and the reason why Ywach wanted to recover the original world. Go search the resume thread in the Bleach subforum.



reyatsuguy said:


> No it's not obvious at all. Attacks have charging times and different activation and firing times. Also source of this.



The fact that was going to use it as an attack in the middle of a fight.



reyatsuguy said:


> Unquantifiable.



Is planet level because that's the amount of energy he's manipulating.



reyatsuguy said:


> A far cry away from planet level.



No way to know how close to if there's no calc, that's why I put a + there.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That's the sin of the original noble heads and the reason why Ywach wanted to recover the original world. Go search the resume thread in the Bleach subforum.


no thank you. You are rquired to present your evidence since you are trying to prove shit.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> he fact that was going to use it as an attack in the middle of a fight.


Yeah , he never did so we don't know how it would have played out. Useless.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Is planet level because that's the amount of energy he's manipulating.


That's not how it works. 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No way to know how close to if there's no calc, that's why I put a + there.


Yeah, exactly my point. So why did you brought it up ?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm still not seeing concrete shit only an analgamation of unquantifiable shit, wishfull thinking, theories, interpretations and statements that have no substance. You're not on the right patch to prove Planet lvl Bleach.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bad Wolf (Oct 26, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> there's a lot of series where we don't assume earth to be earth, we do assume the planet to be earth size. as most sci-fi have you finding earth like planet to resolve that problem. but not when you separate said planet into three and still assume that planet is far larger than earth or even the same size as earth.





shade0180 said:


> I'm saying earth origin differs.


What are you saying doesn't make a sense. You wanna argue Marvel Earth isn't like ours because some god created like that? Or just like any universe created by someone then is different because was created and so have a different origin?
And if there's series which are threated in a different way it's because they showed that. Like Toriko planet.
But for example, Dragon ball have earth with different place/country/continents and was created by some god, maybe they had a big bang, maybe not but that won't change the fact that we use always our earth as starting point


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 26, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> no thank you. You are rquired to present your evidence since you are trying to prove shit.



Im not searching the quote in a 200 page novel today, go read this




reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah , he never did so we don't know how it would have played out. Useless.



Fast enough to be used as an attack, a few minutes at most.



reyatsuguy said:


> That's not how it works.



It is, it manipulated that energy to create the separated space/time and planets of each world with wathever rules the noble houses wanted.



reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, exactly my point. So why did you brought it up ?



Because it proves the soul king has to constantly exert power of a level above the needed to destroy a continent.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> m not searching the quote in a 200 page novel today, go read this


And what makes you think i will lol ?


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Fast enough to be used as an attack, a few minutes at most


Doesen't work that way. Concrete numbers, no arbitraty numbers.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It is, it manipulated that energy to create the separated space/time and planets of each world with wathever rules the noble houses wanted.


Once again ,source of this cause it sounds like bullshit  Also going just from this, manipulating energy doesen't equate tirectly to bustinga planet. An extensive description is required in ordedr to asses how exactly did he do that, the ammount of time he needed to shape shit etc... 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Because it proves the soul king has to constantly exert power of a level above the needed to destroy a continent.


Nope, never happened. Also continental level is a far cry away from being planet level.Does not prove shit.

You fuckers just keep throwing the same tired arguments around hoping that one day someone is gonna feel bad for you and sayk, let's make Bleach planet lvl..why not ? "
There's a reason it hasn't been accepted. Most regurals won't even look at that shit.. and now i'm starting to wonder myslef why the fuck am i bothering explaining shit to a bunch of thisty walls that really want those Bleach upgrades. Life's too fucking short.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## shade0180 (Oct 26, 2017)

Bad Wolf said:


> And if there's series which are threated in a different way it's because they showed that. Like Toriko planet.



and bleach didn't?

 oh wait.


Bad Wolf said:


> Dragon ball have earth with different place/country/continents and was created by some god, maybe they had a big bang, maybe not but that won't change the fact that we use always our earth as starting point



See What I said was earth size planet for the origin of bleach.

 and I agreed with that.

My assumption was there was a planet/rock/whatever you want to call the origin of earth/HM/and the third area for bleach before earth which is earth size and got split into three which was the reasonable assumption we have when we have a planet with nothing about its specs mentioned in series.

So splitting said planet into 3 means the Bleach earth cannot be earth size because there are 3 of them, and we know they combine physically to each other.

because as I said you can't have 1x3=9 there's a problem with that.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

Fuck's sake you people are almost as bad as the DB idiots who are working day and night to make it the most powerfull universe in fiction.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 26, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Doesen't work that way. Concrete numbers, no arbitraty numbers.



Unnecessary, from a few seconds to a few minutes, better work with the range of results you get from that.



reyatsuguy said:


> Once again ,source of this cause it sounds like bullshit Also going just from this, manipulating energy doesen't equate tirectly to bustinga planet. An extensive description is required in ordedr to asses how exactly did he do that, the ammount of time he needed to shape shit etc...



The thing Ywach wanted to create at the end was the original world, the world without death. The noble houses heads used the soul king to split the world and control the souls of everyone, how exactly or for what reason we don't know.



reyatsuguy said:


> Nope, never happened. Also continental level is a far cry away from being planet level.Does not prove shit.
> 
> You fuckers just keep throwing the same tired arguments around hoping that one day someone is gonna feel bad for you and sayk, let's make Bleach planet lvl..why not ? "
> There's a reason it hasn't been accepted. Most regurals won't even look at that shit.. and now i'm starting to wonder myslef why the fuck am i bothering explaining shit to a bunch of thisty walls that really want those Bleach upgrades. Life's too fucking short.



It did happen, the earthquakes ceased meaning the energy that was shaking the worlds was forcefully stopped, I don't really care if it's accepted by the forum, i'm just explaining what happened.


----------



## Kurou (Oct 26, 2017)

If every bleach thread is gonna get derailed by this topic you can either settle it in the meta or just ban the discussion


either way this needs to reach a conclusion


----------



## Regicide (Oct 26, 2017)

A semi-productive subject of discussion derailed into this again

Can I just say that I'm amazed

Like, wow


----------



## Keishin (Oct 26, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Unnecessary, from a few seconds to a few minutes, better work with the range of results you get from that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You assume way too much  Life and death were destined to be as one but became twisted monsters. The destruction of the worlds (of both life and death) is just a precursor to that. Without either we can't even begin to call it Earth


----------



## Bad Wolf (Oct 26, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and bleach didn't?


Where? You've a scan that show a different size? Because environment, origin and stuff like that doesn't matter at all. 



shade0180 said:


> See What I said was earth size planet for the origin of bleach.


But nothing in the scan speaks about the size


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

Regicide said:


> A semi-productive subject of discussion derailed into this again
> 
> Can I just say that I'm amazed
> 
> Like, wow


Don't worry , personally i'm done with this. It's just that this is a little hypocritical. Look at the name of the thread. It's OP vs Bleach. This discussion stopped a long time ago.There are two conversations that are curently derailing this thread. "Yhwach planet lvl bullshit" and "The size of SS and all it's problems''. So don't call people out for the same thing you are guilty of ,please.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 26, 2017)

Keishin said:


> You assume way too much  Life and death were destined to be as one but became twisted monsters. The destruction of the worlds (of both life and death) is just a precursor to that. Without either we can't even begin to call it Earth



What do you mean?


----------



## Regicide (Oct 26, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Don't worry , personally i'm done with this. It's just that this is a little hypocritical. Look at the name of the thread. It's OP vs Bleach. This discussion stopped a long time ago.There are two conversations that are curently derailing this thread. "Yhwach planet lvl bullshit" and "The size of SS and all it's problems''. So don't call people out for the same thing you are guilty of ,please.


It's not hypocritical because my concern isn't about the thread being derailed, it's about the latter discussion being displaced in favor of this back-and-forth


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

Regicide said:


> It's not hypocritical because my concern isn't about the thread being derailed, it's about the latter discussion being displaced in favor of this back-and-forth


Same for me except instead of the second disccusion, i was concernend with the first. So, the way i see it, we're in the same spot ..What do we do ?


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 26, 2017)

SS is always represented as the same size as the world of the living, it has a night and day cicle and I think it has a moon and stars (unless that was anime only) so there's no reason to doubt it is a planet

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Cain1234 (Oct 26, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Fuck's sake you people are almost as bad as the DB idiots who are working day and night to make it the most powerfull universe in fiction.





There is no such thing as the most powerful universe in fiction.


There is such a thing as most powerful popular Fictional Universes.


All fiction is equal in terms of power.

It's just some fictional worlds are more equal than others.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Oct 26, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> All fiction is equal in terms of power.
> 
> It's just some fictional worlds are more equal than others.



In other words, you have a Napoleon complex and are a pig who wants to be a man.

Explains a lot about your persona, then.



shade0180 said:


> Basically
> 
> Yhwack > most of current one piece because of his stupid hax.
> 
> ...



Not really.  Yhwach's power to "Alter the future" is limited by what Yhwach himself would be capable of in future events, at its basic level.

======================================================================================

While Bleach is home to a fair amount of hax and some power-house characters, One Piece is also not yet finished as a series, and I suspect that One Piece will be confirmed as superior to Bleach in terms of strength, eventually


----------



## Kurou (Oct 26, 2017)

Sablés said:


> No.




Nice rebuttal spaz


----------



## Catalyst75 (Oct 26, 2017)

Sablés said:


> No.



You're entertaining a no-limits fallacy there, and Yhwach has never been shown accomplishing a feat that would otherwise be outside of his capabilities.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sablés (Oct 26, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Nice rebuttal spaz


Bite me, homo.

For the same reason ppl bitch over the SK shit, we don't have sufficient info to say how douchebag's powers work with certainty, only that they do. But unlike that instance, there's a contradiction to arguing his ability is limited by his own parameters and alike; namely that he's able to consistently break Zangetsu, when it's more powerful than himself. And even revive himself.

As there's a significant overlap of semantics involved, I'd say he'd be better off wording the almighty as being limited to what it has shown to do, not what yhwach personally can.


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 26, 2017)

He broke Ichigo's bankai that turned him into mush. Ichigo was running on fumes even and he still murdered him in one hit. thats a big difference in raw power


----------



## Catalyst75 (Oct 26, 2017)

Sablés said:


> But unlike that instance, there's a contradiction to arguing his ability is limited by his own parameters and alike; namely that he's able to consistently break Zangetsu, when it's more powerful than himself. And even revive himself.



Yhwach sees all _possible futures, _ and acts upon what he is able to see, including "altering the future" to one where he is alive, if he is killed in the present.

In other words, Tensa Zangetsu can have enough attack power to threaten Yhwach's life, but Yhwach can also be powerful enough to break it.  "The Almighty" is the kind of power that skips "causes" and brings "a future effect" into the present.

Reactions: Informative 2


----------



## Sablés (Oct 26, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> In other words, Tensa Zangetsu can have enough attack power to threaten Yhwach's life, but Yhwach can also be powerful enough to break it.  "The Almighty" is the kind of power that skips "causes" and brings "a future effect" into the present.


Only Zangetsu has always been depicted to be more sturdy than it is strong.

And its pretty telling how Yhwach never tries to interact with Zangetsu in the present and instead _always _brings a future where it's already broken. He also never says he personally did it but speaks of the event as a matter-of-fact. In the futures he envisions, he can  bring about one where Zangetsu itself has been broken for whatever reason. It doesn't require his involvement.


----------



## Regicide (Oct 26, 2017)

I feel as though this begs the question as to what _could_ break Zangetsu, though.


----------



## Kurou (Oct 26, 2017)

Kubo's ink holder if final getsuga is anything to go by


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 26, 2017)

Also when Almighty stops working due to Uryu's arrow, he cant stop Zangestu at all. Its power is above his normal abilities, so Almighty is doing something to hit above his weight class


----------



## OrangePeel (Oct 26, 2017)

This thread is just all over the place.


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Oct 26, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> This thread is just all over the place


Thank you captain.


OneSimpleAnime said:


> Also when Almighty stops working due to Uryu's arrow, he cant stop Zangestu at all. Its power is above his normal abilities, so Almighty is doing something to hit above his weight class


Yeah but even if Zangetsu is more powerfull than Yhwach's capabilities, it's still in the same ballpark of power. Country lvl +. Saying that it could affect shit above that seems NLF-ish .
So for the purpouse of quantifying it, i think Sables's stance on it is the most correct.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Dr. White (Oct 26, 2017)

"Bleach was a mistake"​

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## 1337RedGlitchFox (Oct 26, 2017)

Im not too sure what happened here, but im pretty sure Almighty works on the basis that "This can happen, so thats whatll happen" 
He didnt necessarily revive himself, he chose a future where he lived, if theres no possible future for him to be alive, what future will he live from?

Id say its like Bernkastels magic albeit on a weaker person.

As for the bleach planet thing, I dont see what says Bleach isnt the same size as us, but whatever size Hueco Mundo and Soul Society are can be anyones guess. All we have are statements, but i find it hard to believe Old man Yamas gonna send some people out because "I wanna see how big this place is"

And. Um. Bleach wins? I know thats been said, but kind of just want to put in my vote on that too, because theres still a lot of hax to deal with.


----------



## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 26, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Thank you captain.
> 
> Yeah but even if Zangetsu is more powerfull than Yhwach's capabilities, it's still in the same ballpark of power. Country lvl +. Saying that it could affect shit above that seems NLF-ish .
> So for the purpouse of quantifying it, i think Sables's stance on it is the most correct.


its country level because that is tue currently best calc'd feat in Bleach, from a very casual Yhwach.

Ichigo's raw power is clearly leagues higher than Yhwach, but unquantifiably so for vs matches.


----------



## Daio (Oct 28, 2017)

@reyatsuguy
Nah, don't worry. I lost interest, for now.


----------



## Divell (Oct 28, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Also when Almighty stops working due to Uryu's arrow, he cant stop Zangestu at all. Its power is above his normal abilities, so Almighty is doing something to hit above his weight class


Remember Hashwalth managed to break Zangwtsu once. That could be it.


----------

