# Saint Seiya vs JoJo's Bizarre Adventure



## geeknerd22ducks (Apr 2, 2018)

Saint Seiya vs JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

I don't know. Who wins?


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## Keishin (Apr 2, 2018)

GER never loses


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## geeknerd22ducks (Apr 2, 2018)

Keishin said:


> GER never loses



Had to look that up. What a cheap ability. Who can beat it besides omnipotents?


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## Keishin (Apr 2, 2018)

geeknerd22ducks said:


> Had to look that up. What a cheap ability. Who can beat it besides omnipotents?


no one he will flick featherine's memory cap off like a feather


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## Fang (Apr 2, 2018)

GER isn't beating true multiversals and above. 

Keishin has no idea what he's talking about: redux edition. And everyone else besides GER would be absolutely ass-raped by a single Gold Saint due to tremendous differences in speed (MFTL hundreds of septillions the speed of light) to casual galaxy+ level mid-tiers just with them rounding out the mid tiers.

JJBA gets raped.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sablés (Apr 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> GER isn't beating true multiversals and above.
> 
> Keishin has no idea what he's talking about: redux edition. And everyone else besides GER would be absolutely ass-raped by a single Gold Saint due to tremendous differences in speed (MFTL hundreds of septillions the speed of light) to casual galaxy+ level mid-tiers just with them rounding out the mid tiers.
> 
> JJBA gets raped.


Wouldn't even matter if it did.

Kronos (Cronus?) can destroy the multiverse passively. GER arguably wouldn't activate.


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## geeknerd22ducks (Apr 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> GER isn't beating true multiversals and above.
> 
> Keishin has no idea what he's talking about: redux edition. And everyone else besides GER would be absolutely ass-raped by a single Gold Saint due to tremendous differences in speed (MFTL hundreds of septillions the speed of light) to casual galaxy+ level mid-tiers just with them rounding out the mid tiers.
> 
> JJBA gets raped.



Is Zen oh getting beat?


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## egressmadara (Apr 2, 2018)

Seiyaverse stomps


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## Claudio Swiss (Apr 2, 2018)

geeknerd22ducks said:


> Is Zen oh getting beat?


Keep it on topic and don't fucking try it

Reactions: Funny 1 | Useful 1


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> GER isn't beating true multiversals and above.
> 
> Keishin has no idea what he's talking about: redux edition. And everyone else besides GER would be absolutely ass-raped by a single Gold Saint due to tremendous differences in speed (MFTL hundreds of septillions the speed of light) to casual galaxy+ level mid-tiers just with them rounding out the mid tiers.
> 
> JJBA gets raped.


Even mid-tier Goldies are approaching universe level+ already.

God Cloth Saints are multiverse level at minimum since the God Cloth Bronzies could contend with Hades. God Cloth Goldies shouldn’t be any weaker.


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## geeknerd22ducks (Apr 2, 2018)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Keep it on topic and don't fucking try it


What? Do you want me to create another topic?


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## Porshion (Apr 2, 2018)

Seiya throws his wheelchair imbued with the power of miracles

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Apr 2, 2018)

geeknerd22ducks said:


> What? Do you want me to create another topic?


No cause anything involving DB and saint seiya in the same sentence result in the same damn shit

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

NightmareCinema said:


> Even *mid-tier* Goldies are approaching universe level+ already.
> 
> God Cloth Saints are multiverse level at minimum since the God Cloth Bronzies could contend with Hades. God Cloth Goldies shouldn’t be any weaker.


Even low tiers probably are based off Deathmask’s fight with Seiya and Mu in Hades Chapter even if he did lose as well as some other feats.


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## Fang (Apr 2, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Wouldn't even matter if it did.
> 
> Kronos (Cronus?) can destroy the multiverse passively. GER arguably wouldn't activate.



Cronos/Kronos yes aka King of Titans/Zeus+Hades+Poseidon's dad.

There's also Chronos/Khronos who is potentially on the same level or above him, plus Zeus himself and Gaia.


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## Nep Heart (Apr 2, 2018)

Keishin once again shows exactly why he embodies everything wrong with OBD 2012 as per usual.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Universal GS and Multiversal GC

Is it posible to be so wrong or biased?

Anyway, GER loses to Hades and the rest is irrelevant.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Universal GS and Multiversal GC
> 
> Is it posible to be so wrong or biased?
> 
> Anyway, GER loses to Hades and the rest is irrelevant.


Except it’s not wrong or biased, it’s based on actual feats and powerscaling.

You don’t like it? Tough shit.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

NightmareCinema said:


> Except it’s not wrong or biased, it’s based on actual feats and powerscaling.
> 
> You don’t like it? Tough shit.



I'm not in the mood for this debate so I'm just going to point out how hard the Bronze Saints where raped by Hades who wasn't even trying outside of a few surprising power peaks.

GS being near universal in the OG manga when Thanatos was shiting himself at the idea of Hades blasting the universe, that Saga's best technique is only Galaxy level and that Shaka was going to get bodied by half possessed Shun.

Even Shaka hologram fight in ND isn't a matter of power.

They could get bumped because of Ophiucos feat of affecting the whole universe, but so far he is both an outlier among Golds and a victim of Kurumada's drinking habit.

Reactions: Disagree 3 | Dislike 1


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> I'm not in the mood for this debate so I'm just going to point out how hard the Bronze Saints where raped by Hades who wasn't even trying outside of a few surprising power peaks.
> 
> GS being near universal in the OG manga when Thanatos was shiting himself at the idea of Hades blasting the universe, that Saga's best technique is only Galaxy level and that Shaka was going to get bodied by half possessed Shun.
> 
> ...


Someone hasn’t read Episode.G it seems.

Not to mention all of your arguments stem from disbelief, causing you to call them OUTLIERS and shit.

A two-sealed Titan like Iapetos created a universe and Mu erased it with Starlight Extinction. Three-sealed Cronus is above Iapetos and he had to take cover behind Athena’s statue in order to survive Galaxian Explosion. “Merely galaxy level” my ass.

Hades was also maintaining three universes in the OG series while fighting the God Cloth Bronzies. Casually maintaining them, might I add. Guess what, the Bronzies weren’t one-shotted by Hades so nice try on that.

Shaka’s fight against Shijima had them creating and destroying a universe repeatedly. Stop lying.

You’ve no right to call someone else biased when you yourself wanks Bleach to high heaven.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

Not to mention the Elysion alone was infinitely huge in both the manga and anime. Thanatos being afraid of Hades destroying just that alone doesn't disprove him being universe level as well just that he doesn't have the power to nuke the Elysion.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 2, 2018)

Tbh Shaka universe creating feat was basically made because both him and shijima were wielding yin yang equivalents 
Angyo creates an universe 
Ungyo destroys it
Repeat ad infinitum,
But yeah
This is baseline universe level
Mu straight feat Also destroyed what was Either a multi galaxy cluster or a pocket universe .
I dont remember Hades having 3 universes 
Hell was never stated to be infinite 
But elysium is stated to be infinite and i believe the hyperdimension is considerably bigger than our universe give or take.
So yeah


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Not to mention the Elysion alone was infinitely huge in both the manga and anime. Thanatos being afraid of Hades destroying just that alone doesn't disprove him being universe level as well just that he doesn't have the power to nuke the Elysion.



You need 3 Golds to reach Big Bang level.



iwandesu said:


> Tbh Shaka universe creating feat was basically made because both him and shijima were wielding yin yang equivalents
> Angyo creates an universe
> Ungyo destroys it



The point of it wasn't power but knowledge and concepts, same as Shaka's hand isn't bigger than the universe.

This is very clear at least in the spanish version.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> I dont remember Hades having 3 universes
> Hell was never stated to be infinite
> But elysium is stated to be infinite and i believe the hyperdimension is considerably bigger than our universe give or take.
> So yeah


NC is referring to Hell, Elysium and the Hyperdimension being their own separate universes.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You need 3 Golds to reach Big Bang level.


K so what? Big Bangs aren't uniform in fiction you know?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> K so what? Big Bangs aren't uniform in fiction you know?



Because is a explosion as strong as the Big Bang, what's the point of comparing it to that if it means a "super big bang"

Same as GE that's defined as Galaxy Level, being actually far stronger without reason.


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You need 3 Golds to reach Big Bang level..


The big bang in Saint Seiya created a multiverse, and the power of the AE can distort the worlds of life and death, it reaches to damage Aiolos in another dimension outside of space-time.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Because is a explosion as strong as the Big Bang, what's the point of comparing it to that if it means a "super big bang"
> 
> Same as GE that's defined as Galaxy Level, being actually far stronger without reason.


Still debating from disbelief instead of using feats, I see.

The Anti-Spiral has a move called the Infinity Big Bang Storm but it’s multiverse level+ due to the fact that the Anti-Spiral has been maintaining the multi-dimensional labyrinth.

Same thing with Saint Seiya here. Feats > statements. Now put up or shut up.


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## NostalgiaFan (Apr 2, 2018)

Gutts X3 said:


> The big bang in Saint Seiya created a multiverse, and the power of the AE can distort the worlds of life and death, it reaches to damage Aiolos in another dimension outside of space-time.


How big is the SS Multiverse?


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Because is a explosion as strong as the Big Bang, what's the point of comparing it to that if it means a "super big bang"


That still doesn't disprove a thing. Big Bangs in fiction can be multiversal. We know that the original Big Bang created the multiverse and that the Gold Saints can use some of it. Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saint Seiya-verse was itself infinite in scope since we see a fuckload of pocket dimensions in it.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Same as GE that's defined as Galaxy Level, being actually far stronger without reason.


If you take the label literally, Vegeta's Big Bang Attack is literally universe level pre-Super. Or TTGL isn't multiversal despite having a Big Bang for an attack as well.

Don't use labels to downplay, it's not very wise to.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> NC is referring to Hell, Elysium and the Hyperdimension being their own separate universes.



In Next Dimension and Assassin, another dimension or space in the world of Hades is mentioned. The Shadow of the Underworld that is described as a place of infinite darkness.


NightmareCinema said:


> Someone hasn’t read Episode.G it seems.


Also in Golden Age the Gold Saints are described as universal level by the word of god.


NostalgiaFan said:


> How big is the SS Multiverse?


Unknown, on Twitter the author Okada says that the universe has multiple multiverses.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Gutts X3 said:


> The big bang in Saint Seiya created a multiverse, and the power of the AE can distort the worlds of life and death, it reaches to damage Aiolos in another dimension outside of space-time.



AE can't even kill Hades, the Big Bang it talks about is the single universe one.



NightmareCinema said:


> Still debating from disbelief instead of using feats, I see.
> 
> The Anti-Spiral has a move called the Infinity Big Bang Storm but it’s multiverse level+ due to the fact that the Anti-Spiral has been maintaining the multi-dimensional labyrinth.
> 
> Same thing with Saint Seiya here. Feats > statements. Now put up or shut up.



The Spiral thing is another thing that should be corrected, but another day.




Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> If you take the label literally, Vegeta's Big Bang Attack is literally universe level pre-Super. Or TTGL isn't multiversal despite having a Big Bang for an attack as well.
> 
> Don't use labels to downplay, it's not very wise to.



Difference is that Vegeta's attack is just a name, GE is described as "the power to destroy a galaxy" with several techniques refering back to this standard.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> That still doesn't disprove a thing. Big Bangs in fiction can be multiversal. We know that the original Big Bang created the multiverse and that the Gold Saints can use some of it. Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saint Seiya-verse was itself infinite in scope since we see a fuckload of pocket dimensions in it.



SS universe is infinite with countless pocket dimensions, that's how a universe it's supposed to be.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> AE can't even kill Hades, the Big Bang it talks about is the single universe one.


What does that prove? Hades is multiversal, of course that wouldn't work.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The Spiral thing is another thing that should be corrected, but another day.


Oh I can't wait for that.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Difference is that Vegeta's attack is just a name, GE is described as "the power to destroy a galaxy" with several techniques refering back to this standard.


Because author statements are always infallible right? You understand that there are countless light speed statements in the manga right? It's a common thing in comics as well and yet we accept higher yields if they're shown to be that high. Feats > statements. Always has been, always will be.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> SS universe is infinite with countless pocket dimensions, that's how a universe it's supposed to be.


...

No. That's not it. A baseline universe is 93 billion light years in diameter, maybe bigger since I read an article Gwyn posted that the observable universe may be 25x larger. Infinite sized universes are not the norm.

But thanks for helping prove my point tho

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> AE can't even kill Hades, the Big Bang it talks about is the single universe one.


No, they talk about the big bang that created reality or the universe (or multiverse) in Saint Seiya. This only indicates the great power that Hades possesses, who surpasses the power of the God Saints and the Gold Saints.

In the Poseidon Arc, Seiya destroyed Poseidon's Mainstay Pillar, which was protected by his divine Cosmos and would remain intact even after the end of the universe. Seiya with God Cloths is infinitely stronger than before.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> AE can't even kill Hades, the Big Bang it talks about is the single universe one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. Obviously not since Hades is stronger than the AE. That should be common sense but then again it’s you, so that’s asking for too much.

2. Ha, no. It’s legit. Multiverse level+ TTGL is a thing. Don’t like it? Too bad. We scrutinized the multi-dimensional labyrinth feat and came to that conclusion. You have nothing. Then again, you can’t “correct” anything to save your life. Must be the ink from Bleach that you guzzled down affecting your sorry excuse for a brain. SAD!

3. The series also said that Gold Saints only move at lightspeed and that Bronzies are only mach 1. Yet they clearly go beyond those speeds. Once again, you’re lying through your teeth.

4. That is not how a baseline universe is. Especially since pocket dimensions aren’t even a thing IRL.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Nep Heart (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm reminded of a certain someone downplaying Goddess Madoka to universe level because of some one time Big Bang statement even though Big Bangs are not all the same in fiction as pointed out in this thread.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Because author statements are always infallible right? You understand that there are countless light speed statements in the manga right? It's a common thing in comics as well and yet we accept higher yields if they're shown to be that high. Feats > statements. Always has been, always will be



Because light speed is the baseline for GS by achieving 7th sense and there's FTL statements and feats.

GE is galaxy level precisely for those statements and the credibility of other statements based on feats in the rest of the manga.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Oh I can't wait for that.



The goal of the Antispiral and the end of the movie.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> ...
> 
> No. That's not it. A baseline universe is 93 billion light years in diameter, maybe bigger since I read an article Gwyn posted that the observable universe may be 25x larger. Infinite sized universes are not the norm.
> 
> But thanks for helping prove my point tho



That's the baseline for calcs using the observable universe, our universe is unknown but theorized to be infinite.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> I'm reminded of a certain someone downplaying Goddess Madoka to universe level because of some one time Big Bang statement even though Big Bangs are not all the same in fiction as pointed out in this thread.


Captain Harlock Endless Odyssey has the Big Bang creating two universes: Real Space and Imaginary Time.

And Noo tanked that while nerfed no less

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Apr 2, 2018)

Gutts X3 said:


> In Next Dimension and Assassin, another dimension or space in the world of Hades is mentioned. The Shadow of the Underworld that is described as a place of infinite darkness.
> 
> *Also in Golden Age the Gold Saints are described as universal level by the word of god.*


Gonna need a link for that

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Gutts X3 said:


> No, they talk about the big bang that created reality or the universe (or multiverse) in Saint Seiya. This only indicates the great power that Hades possesses, who surpasses the power of the God Saints and the Gold Saints.
> 
> In the Poseidon Arc, Seiya destroyed Poseidon's Mainstay Pillar, which was protected by his divine Cosmos and would remain intact even after the end of the universe. Seiya with God Cloths is infinitely stronger than before.



The pilar thing is pointless, Thanatos is scared of a universe buster and Hades created 2 universe sized realities, probably one at a time.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Because light speed is the baseline for GS by achieving 7th sense and there's FTL statements and feats.


...

There's way more LS statements than FTL statements despite the fact that Gold Saints regularly attack and move at FTL speeds. Kurumada especially throws out LS statements for Gold Saints because he has no sense of scale. Please, don't take statements seriously unless they corroborate feats.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The goal of the Antispiral and the end of the movie.


What does this prove? Nothing. The Antispiral tried to prevent the collapse of everything, including his dimension.

Also the movie is noncanon 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That's the baseline for calcs using the observable universe, our universe is unknown but *theorized* to be infinite.


Key word there being theorized. There's no real proof nor conclusive evidence that the universe is infinite in scope. The actual universe could be anywhere from 30x the size of our universe to infinite. That's why baseline universal feats require destroying a universe of 93 billion light years. Anything higher warrants universal+. That's how that works.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The pilar thing is pointless, Thanatos is scared of a universe buster and Hades created 2 universe sized realities, probably one at a time.


A universe buster that was going to destroy the Elysion, something that is endless in overall scope. That's no ordinary universe buster attack.


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Gonna need a link for that


Quote of the novel in Spanish:


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Really?


Yeah it happens a lot in the manga. Kurumada can't keep shit consistent. Almost every Gold Saint has gotten a "strongest Gold Saint" statement at least once. Although in fairness, the Geminis tend to get the most but still.


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The pilar thing is pointless, Thanatos is scared of a universe buster and Hades created 2 universe sized realities, probably one at a time.


But it is described in the story by a god. A fraction of the cosmos of Hades, as a spirit without a physical body can affect the entire world of death, including the Yomotsu. The power of Hades can destroy the whole world of the death (Tartarus, Elyseum, Hell, Superdimension / Lethe, Shadow of the Underworld, Yomotsu).


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## Arthur CM (Apr 2, 2018)

universal gold saints

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Sablés (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Yeah it happens a lot in the manga. Kurumada can't keep shit consistent. Almost every Gold Saint has gotten a "strongest Gold Saint" statement at least once. Although in fairness, the Geminis tend to get the most but still.



Fucking this.

Drink every time you hear  "strongest I've ever faced / strongest cosmo / strongest saint" bla bla.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Gutts X3 said:


> But it is described in the story by a god. A fraction of the cosmos of Hades, as a spirit without a physical body can affect the entire world of death, including the Yomotsu.



And?

Hades can make whatever he wants with the worlds he makes, the pilar was said to survive the end of the universe but that isn't the same as a universe level attack and there's no way to know if it actually would.


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> And?
> 
> Hades can make whatever he wants with the worlds he makes, the pilar was said to survive the end of the universe but that isn't the same as a universe level attack and there's no way to know if it actually would.


And? It is described in the story about the power of its characters. Hades can destroy the whole world of death in the universe of Saint Seiya, which are multiple universes. Seiya can destroy a pillar that resists the end of the universe. In Kurumada Suikoden, Shiryu without Cloth defeats the Emperor Chaos with the ten senkai swords, the swords that have the power to destroy the universe in Fuma no Kojiro.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> -snip-


In other words, you have nothing, either for the Saint Seiya shit you’re trying to disprove or the TTGL thing.

Good to know. Now concede. You’ve lost.



Arthur CM said:


> universal gold saints



They are. Multiversal with their God Cloths. Like I’ve said to lol 4th over there, tough shit if you don’t like it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> I don't really need to debunk this since NC did this for me. Also, SF Latif found a LS speed feat for a Silver Saint in either G or Assassin. Not sure, I'd have to ask him again so there goes the statements being ironclad
> 
> I have no idea why you think statements are ironclad in SS when you admit that Kurumada is a drunk. I dunno how many drunks you've met but they aren't known to exactly be reliable



Yes because a silver or bronze can awake the 7th sense and be promoted to gold.

I'm failing to see why this is important.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> So? This means nothing. In 96% of SMT plots, the characters have to save Tokyo. Does that suddenly make them city level now?



False equivalence because SMT setting is a multiverse, all that exist in TTGL is in this one universe that contains pocket dimensions of different sizes.

Really rought example: DB earth and room of spirit and time.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> We can't quantify the feats in joules or whatever but we do use a baseline of 93 billion light years worth of matter-energy and spacetime. Anything less is not universe level.



Honestly most fictional universes are said or implied to be infinite.



Gutts X3 said:


> And? It is described in the story about the power of its characters. Hades can destroy the whole world of death in the universe of Saint Seiya, which are multiple universes.



Saint Seiya's classic manga is only about one universe.




Claudio Swiss said:


> Translate





The maximum speed of a Bronze Saint is mach 1. Although normal people don't posses such speed. But the speed of the chosen as Saints is similar to that of light. People can't acquire that speed but with a Cosmos explosion it is possible for Gold Saints to do that, secretly they could destroy the universe.


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## Claudio Swiss (Apr 2, 2018)

Arthur CM said:


> universal gold saints


Mind giving reasons why u find it laughable or just bounce

Reactions: Like 1


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 2, 2018)

Where would Novel Kars be at?


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Saint Seiya's classic manga is only about one universe.


Not multiple dimensions or universes. The Next Dimension or the other stories only expand the universe / multiverse of Saint Sieya.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

Kek

Except the Anti-Spiral created their own multiverse. And maintained it for at least a millennium.

Like a legit multiverse. Not pocket dimensions or anything.

You still have nothing, L4DR. Give it up.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Yes because a silver or bronze can awake the 7th sense and be promoted to gold.
> 
> I'm failing to see why this is important.


Pretty sure that was a fodder Silver who did that feat 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> False equivalence because SMT setting is a multiverse, all that exist in TTGL is in this one universe that contains pocket dimensions of different sizes.
> 
> Really rought example: DB earth and room of spirit and time.


TTGL's Labyrinth has other universes in it. I really shouldn't have to reiterate it when NC already did.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Honestly most fictional universes are said or implied to be infinite.


No they really aren't. That's why there's so few universe busters of that scale. I can't even think of that many aside from Pre-Crisis characters.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Saint Seiya's classic manga is only about one universe.


What is Hades' personal domain?


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## Arthur CM (Apr 2, 2018)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Mind giving reasons why u find it laughable or just bounce




It's not a topic for this. but the "lol" was for mentioning ungyo / agyo as universal feats

but i disagree with universal gold saints anyway

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Pretty sure that was a fodder Silver who did that feat



He is an upstart or an outlier then.



mach1
mach10
mach35
mach120
lightspeed
FTL



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> TTGL's Labyrinth has other universes in it. I really shouldn't have to reiterate it when NC already did.



There's just one true universe, we see it from the outside, the labyrinth is a pocket space made to test the brigade.

AS says, in no uncertain terms, we want to save the universe.




Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> No they really aren't. That's why there's so few universe busters of that scale. I can't even think of that many aside from Pre-Crisis characters



I can, it's most of the fictions that deal with the universe to any scale.




Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> What is Hades' personal domain?



The world of the dead, but Guts is implying that world is present trough all the timelines.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He is an upstart or an outlier then.
> 
> mach1
> mach10
> ...


On the basis of what? You not liking the feat? If your standard are statements from a guy you admitted isn't exactly reliable, you have no real leg to stand on. Moreover, we have people like Shaina reacting to Poseidon attacking Seiya which shows that feat really isn't an outlier. Also can't forget Shaina and Marin reacting to Thanatos' attacks 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There's just one true universe, we see it from the outside, the labyrinth is a pocket space made to test the brigade.
> 
> AS says, in no uncertain terms, we want to save the universe.


That doesn't prove those aren't universes. We know that AS created those universes and that GL broke out of it.

Also scale =/= firepower. You should know this.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> I can, it's most of the fictions that deal with the universe to any scale.


Please do give examples because the most I can find are Pre-Crisis characters.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The world of the dead, but Guts is implying that world is present trough all the timelines.


Pretty sure it is given we see Hades in another timeline fighting and slaying the God Saints in Assassin.


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The world of the dead, but Guts is implying that world is present trough all the timelines.


No, but the world of the dead has multiple dimensions or universes, and a fraction of the cosmos of Hades can affect all dimensions (or world of the dead).


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> On the basis of what? You not liking the feat? If your standard are statements from a guy you admitted isn't exactly reliable, you have no real leg to stand on. Moreover, we have people like Shaina reacting to Poseidon attacking Seiya which shows that feat really isn't an outlier. Also can't forget Shaina and Marin reacting to Thanatos' attacks



All of the silver saint arc where they keep going "i'm silver mach 5 master race you bronce peasants"

The only Silver's  that had 7 sense (obligatory for LS) are Orfeo and anime only Alviore

Shaina is the speed of love.

Kurumada right now is a lazy writer that milks SS despite not being interested in the story, he wasn't always an inconsistent author, that's why ND quality can't hold a candle to the original run or the spin off.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> That doesn't prove those aren't universes. We know that AS created those universes and that GL broke out of it.
> 
> Also scale =/= firepower. You should know this



Ok, what about things that are planet level right now but that have infinite sized pocket dimensions?

AS can't create new universes, he can make pocket dimensions that lack whatever it is that is needed to be considered true universes by the AS, maybe they are too small, they lack souls, they are half illusions, they can't exist independently, they are linked to the brigade member perception, etc...



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Pretty sure it is given we see Hades in another timeline fighting and slaying the God Saints in Assassin.



But Hades is dead in the main timeline, so Hades isn't just one guy for the whole multiverse.



Gutts X3 said:


> No, but the world of the dead has multiple dimensions or universes, and a fraction of the cosmos of Hades can affect all dimensions.



There's none of this in OG manga.


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## geeknerd22ducks (Apr 2, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> I'm reminded of a certain someone downplaying Goddess Madoka to universe level because of some one time Big Bang statement even though Big Bangs are not all the same in fiction as pointed out in this thread.


Wait. Madoka's stronger than universe level? How strong is she?


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

Who cares if it’s not in the OG manga?

Episode.G and Assassin are both canon. Deal with it.


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There's none of this in OG manga.


No, in the original and the other stories that expand the universe you can see that it is a world of multiple dimensions or universes.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Gordo solos (Apr 2, 2018)

GER is the only one that doesn’t die instantly


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> All of the silver saint arc where they keep going "i'm silver mach 5 master race you bronce peasants"


Again character statements mean jack. If they are always accurate, Gemini Cain is not faster than LS. Which would be hilariously wrong.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The only Silver's that had 7 sense (obligatory for LS) are Orfeo and anime only Alviore


Still doesn't prove that feat is invalid. Besides, Orpheus is a special case since not only did he awaken the 7th Sense, he's outright Gold Saint level. Pretty huge distinction there that you're missing.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Shaina is the speed of love.


Okay concession accepted then for lack of a coherent argument.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Kurumada right now is a lazy writer that milks SS despite not being interested in the story, he wasn't always an inconsistent author, that's why ND quality can't hold a candle to the original run or the spin off.


Even Classic has had moments of inconsistency. Kurumada keeps changing who is the strongest Gold Saint even in the Classic manga. That's why you shouldn't take them so seriously.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Ok, what about things that are planet level right now but that have infinite sized pocket dimensions?


You mean like in Strange Journey? Because that yielded multiverse level. Again. Scale does not matter.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> AS can't create new universes, he can make pocket dimensions that lack whatever it is that is needed to be considered true universes by the AS, maybe they are too small, they lack souls, they are half illusions, they can't exist independently, they are linked to the brigade member perception, etc...


None of that is ever indicated in the anime or movie. AS even shows shock and awe that the team was able to escape, implying that they were actually trapped there in other universes.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> But Hades is dead in the main timeline, so Hades isn't just one guy for the whole multiverse.


What argument is this? Moreover, Hades isn't dead, he revived himself and used Cronus' Dunamis to make a new body.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There's none of this in OG manga.


Who cares?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Nep Heart (Apr 2, 2018)

geeknerd22ducks said:


> Wait. Madoka's stronger than universe level? How strong is she?



endorsements



 There are infinite amount of universes in Puella Magi and Goddess Madoka rewrote every single one of them in episode 12 to remove the concept of witches.

Reactions: Like 1


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> AS can't create new universes, he can make pocket dimensions that lack whatever it is that is needed to be considered true universes by the AS, maybe they are too small, they lack souls, they are half illusions, they can't exist independently, they are linked to the brigade member perception, etc...


Uh, yes, the Anti-Spiral can. Or did you forget that the Super Spiral Space in which the final battle took place in was a universe of the AS’s making? Said space contained a lot of galaxies.

They also made the multi-dimensional labyrinth which evolves and becomes bigger with the thoughts of the team trapped in it.

Everything that the Anti-Spirals made disappeared when they were defeated by Simon.

Once again, you’re wrong about TTGL just like how you’re wrong about Saint Seiya.

Reactions: Like 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 2, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Even Classic has had moments of inconsistency. Kurumada keeps changing who is the strongest Gold Saint even in the Classic manga. That's why you shouldn't take them so seriously



It's Shaka in terms of cosmos when he opens his eyes and Saga overall.

In ND a gold saint has a pet lion named goldie lol



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Again character statements mean jack. If they are always accurate, Gemini Cain is not faster than LS. Which would be hilariously wrong.



No reason for them to not know how fast they are, also precisely stated by the author like a hundred times trough mangas, databooks and interviews.

At that point you might doubt everything and say cosmos doesn't exist and Seiya is just imagining everything in the orphanage.

The Cain thing is ND, much more inconsistent than the OG manga.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Still doesn't prove that feat is invalid. Besides, Orpheus is a special case since not only did he awaken the 7th Sense, he's outright Gold Saint level. Pretty huge distinction there that you're missing



No 7 sense no light speed, if the silver isn't a new character he is not lightspeed.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Okay concession accepted then for lack of a coherent argument.



They shield Seika from attacks that are mean to torture Seiya, is less an inconsistency than Thanatos being cruel. Shaina is ship tease, same as the anime where she saves Seiya from lightspeed attacks.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> You mean like in Strange Journey? Because that yielded multiverse level. Again. Scale does not matter.



Any fiction with an infinite sized pocket dimension or in a lower level with planet sized pocket dimensions while the characters are like city level.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> None of that is ever indicated in the anime or movie. AS even shows shock and awe that the team was able to escape, implying that they were actually trapped there in other universes.



AS is shocked because they got out, that doesn't mean the labyrinth is made of universes just that they shouldn't be able to do that, and they almost weren't.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> What argument is this? Moreover, Hades isn't dead, he revived himself and used Cronus' Dunamis to make a new body.



Saori killed Hades, if he's in Assassin which as far as I know is an alternate future, he isn't the same Hades.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Who cares?



To Guts because he was discussing the OG manga.


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## geeknerd22ducks (Apr 3, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> Really helpful site where you can read about experienced travlers'...experiences.
> 
> 
> 
> There are infinite amount of universes in Puella Magi and Goddess Madoka rewrote every single one of them in episode 12 to remove the concept of witches.


Thank you.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It's Shaka in terms of cosmos when he opens his eyes and Saga overall.


That's still an inconsistency.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No reason for them to not know how fast they are, also precisely stated by the author like a hundred times trough mangas, databooks and interviews.


Kurumada can't distinguish between Mach 1 and LS in the Ikki vs Cain fight. He shows he couldn't tell what an FTL feat is even in the Classic manga. You really think he has an established sense of scale? The man is a drunk and I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks LS is far faster than what it actually is.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> At that point you might doubt doubt everything and say cosmos doesn't exist and Seiya is just imagining everything in the orphanage.


...

Cosmo exists outside of character statements. Like really. We see all the characters use it. We aren't told they use it, we see that they use it. Do you not get the distinction? This is showing your desperation.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No 7 sense no light speed, if the silver isn't a new character he is not lightspeed.


Because of unreliable statements? Sure okay, Gemini Cain is no faster than LS then 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> They shield Seika from attacks that are mean to torture Seiya, is less an inconsistency than Thanatos being cruel. Shaina is ship tease, same as the anime where she saves Seiya from lightspeed attacks.


That doesn't disprove the feats at all, it just shows they are that fast. I don't care about the authorial intent behind the scenes, I care about what the scenes show and the scenes show Shaina and Marin are FTL. Are you also forgetting that Thanatos' attacks travelled across all of Hades' personal domain and they managed to react to it right as it was about to hit Seika?


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Any fiction with an infinite sized pocket dimension or in a lower level with planet sized pocket dimensions while the characters are like city level.


...

I really do not know where you're going with this so I'll let you go off on this tangent by yourself.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> AS is shocked because they got out, that doesn't mean the labyrinth is made of universes just that they shouldn't be able to get out, and they almost weren't.


And yet you disbelieve they are universes even though they are stated and shown to be universes. Moreover, even if the team wasn't physically there, that pretty much means they are immune to illusions on an absurdly high level. So either way, it's a multiversal feat 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Saori killed Hades, if he's in Assassin which as far as I know is an alternate future, he isn't the same Hades.


That was in Episode G. We see Cronus and Hades talking and Cronus giving Hades his Dunamis because he respected Aiolia so much 


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> To Guts because he was discussing the OG manga.


But we aren't talking about Classic. We're using all canon feats which includes G and Assassin.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Kurumada can't distinguish between Mach 1 and LS in the Ikki vs Cain fight. He shows he couldn't tell what an FTL feat is even in the Classic manga. You really think he has an established sense of scale? The man is a drunk and I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks LS is far faster than what it actually is



He knows exactly how fast lightspeed is.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Because of unreliable statements? Sure okay, Gemini Cain is no faster than LS then



Because it is impossible, is like saying someone can reach mach 1 without cosmos.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> That doesn't disprove the feats at all, it just shows they are that fast. I don't care about the authorial intent behind the scenes, I care about what the scenes show and the scenes show Shaina and Marin are FTL. Are you also forgetting that Thanatos' attacks travelled across all of Hades' personal domain and they managed to react to it right as it was about to hit Seika?



No, that contradicts absolutely everything including logic and common sense.



Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> That was in Episode G. We see Cronus and Hades talking and Cronus giving Hades his Dunamis because he respected Aiolia so much



That's the OG timeline.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He knows exactly how fast lightspeed is.


Are you sure about that? Again, guy's a drunk, I bet he couldn't tell a red light from a car's turn signal.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No, that contradicts absolutely everything including logic and common sense.


It doesn't. It actually is consistent with that feat I brought up.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That's the OG timeline.


K?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Are you sure about that? Again, guy's a drunk, I bet he couldn't tell a red light from a car's turn signal.



He actually studied a lot before making the manga, is just that ND is like Super for Dragon Ball.




Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> It doesn't. It actually is consistent with that feat I brought up.



It would mean Thanatos is being blocked by silver saints after he defeated 5 golds with a single attack.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

That's actually off a bit. It's actually 299792.458 km/s, not 300,000 km/s even if it is an approximation. Again, this still doesn't prove anything other than Kurumada got one thing kinda sorta accurate but not really.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It would mean Thanatos is being blocked by silver saints after he defeated 5 golds with a single attack.


5 mid-Gold level Bronze Saints against a bunch of Silvers that were able to react to a fodder attack of Thanatos. Thanatos was trashing the Bronzes with way more than just a fodder attack. Come on, you should know the difference.


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 3, 2018)

this thread is just

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Iwandesu (Apr 3, 2018)

Thanatos attack took almost an entire minute to arrive on Earth. 
Shaina and Marin and fooders reacting to it is because they were billions of light years away.
It has nothing to do With their speed.
Not arguing anything else but the thanatos feat absolutely didnt need anyone there to have light sleed


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> Thanatos attack took almost an entire minute to arrive on Earth.
> Shaina and Marin and fooders reacting to it is because they were billions of light years away.
> It has nothing to do With their speed.
> Not arguing anything else but the thanatos feat absolutely didnt need anyone there to have light sleed


I must have remembered the feat wrong because I could have swore they reacted to it right as it was about to hit Seika.

Oh well, still doesn't detract from my overall point.


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## Imagine (Apr 3, 2018)

I always enjoy seeing people upset about Saint Seiya's hilariously ludicrous power.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Bad Wolf (Apr 3, 2018)

As people are saying is SS the statement should be judged by the power in-series and not by what they can destroy by our standards, even because with our standards they don't make any sense.
AE is big bang level and 3 saint could do it, all the golds are needed for the wall of grief that needed sunlight or something like that, libra's weapon have star level DC but they should be stronger than many golds. And one gold saint can destroy a universe. So universe < star < big bang < sunlight? People can't just downplay with some information and then ignore everything else


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## Regicide (Apr 3, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> Really helpful site where you can read about experienced travlers'...experiences.
> 
> 
> 
> There are infinite amount of universes in Puella Magi and Goddess Madoka rewrote every single one of them in episode 12 to remove the concept of witches.


For clarification, is this strip the primary basis for this interpretation of Madoka's cosmology?

Cause like, Tamura Homura is a non-canon gag 4koma.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You need 3 Golds to reach Big Bang level.



No you don't. All it shows is that three Gold Saints performing an AE together is > an individual Gold Saints universal level attack. Pope Aiolos in GA was matching a AE by himself. Shura cutting down Kreios who was at full power in G is a universal feat, etc...



> The point of it wasn't power but knowledge and concepts, same as Shaka's hand isn't bigger than the universe.



You truly have no idea what you are talking about.

Mu's Starlight Extinction erased a pocket universe.
Shaka was generating energy equivalent to creating a universe, Shijima was generating energy equivalent to destroying one. They did this against each other constantly with no tax or wear.
Saga's GE is > Saga's AD which can affect the entire universe and stated to be the most destructive of all the Gold Saints techniques.



> This is very clear at least in the spanish version.



It is very clear you have no idea what you are talking regardless of it being the Japanese, Spanish, English, or French versions and have never read Episode G, ND, or Episode G - Assassin.

Also if there are idiots here who still think attaining the 7th Sense merely means "lightspeed" then that's their problem. You don't have Gold Cloths, Gold Saints, and Bronze Saints zipping through a dimension that's larger than the real universe in a few minutes made up of billions upon billions of galaxies, black holes, and quasars and be merely at the speed of light.

Reactions: Like 4


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> No you don't. All it shows is that three Gold Saints performing an AE together is > an individual Gold Saints universal level attack. Pope Aiolos in GA was matching a AE by himself. Shura cutting down Kreios who was at full power in G is a universal feat, etc...



AE is a power like that off a Big Bang.

Full power Kreios should crush any saint if he indeed fought the gods.

Pope Aiolos is stronger than a normal Gold then.



Fang said:


> Mu's Starlight Extinction erased a pocket universe.
> Shaka was generating energy equivalent to creating a universe, Shijima was generating energy equivalent to destroying one. They did this against each other constantly with no tax or wear.
> Saga's GE is > Saga's AD which can affect the entire universe and stated to be the most destructive of all the Gold Saints techniques



You don't understand what a clash of concepts means.

It was a pocket dimension.

All else is just Okeda hyping up the Golds trough luck and power ups.



Fang said:


> It is very clear you have no idea what you are talking regardless of it being the Japanese, Spanish, English, or French versions and have never read Episode G, ND, or Episode G - Assassin.
> 
> Also if there are idiots here who still think attaining the 7th Sense merely means "lightspeed" then that's their problem. You don't have Gold Cloths, Gold Saints, and Bronze Saints zipping through a dimension that's larger than the real universe in a few minutes made up of billions upon billions of galaxies, black holes, and quasars and be merely at the speed of light.



No, it's very clearly not a matter of power i'm jjust being specific because I don't know if the English version is good enought for people to realize that.

Reactions: Disagree 3 | Ningen 2 | Dislike 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> AE is a power like that off a Big Bang.



No, its a focused big bang. Not "like" a big bang.



> Full power Kreios should crush any saint if he indeed fought the gods.



No shit, sherlock. But he still lost against Shura who fatally wounded him, same Kreios who could fight the Olympians just fine.



> Pope Aiolos is stronger than a normal Gold then.



No shit, sherlock, redux. And mid-tier Golds are already universe level to begin with. So your not adding anything new here. Aiolos is > above universe level attacks. Just like Hyperion in Omega tanked an AE from Libra Shiryuu, Aries Kiki, and Virgo Fudo.



> You don't understand what a clash of concepts means.



You don't understand anything about Saint Seiya, which is nothing new.



> It was a pocket dimension.



Japanese kanji said universe, right out of Iapetos mouth in Episode G during the Mu-Iapetos fight. Try again, kiddo.



> All else is just Okeda hyping up the Golds trough luck and power ups.



Just like the Bronzes did which is why the concept of creating and activating miracles through their Cosmos is literally actualized deus ex machina. Also further proof you have no idea what you are talking about:

>author's name is Okada not Okeda
>completely ignore Mu erasing a literal pocket universe with SE
>completely ignore AD being universal in range and power and GE being explicitly stated to be more powerful and destructive than it
>try to bullshit about Shaka's and Shijima's Ungyo and Angyo clashing and their energies being told of their potency from an omniscient source (the narrator)
>ignore Cronos call Saga a God-Killer, same Cronos who even as astral projection/spirit can easily kill manifested Iapetos, Coeus, Kreios, or Hyperion who have their bodies and Somas
>same Saga nearly kills said Cronos who needs to use Athena's Aegis and causes damage to it, the same Aegis that could eat attacks from full power Hades in his true body and with his Surplice
>ignoring the Gold Saints invading Tartaros in G and fighting Olympians who could generate their own universes and still survive attacks from said entities

Yeah try again.



> No, it's very clearly not a matter of power i'm jjust being specific because I don't know if the English version is good enought for people to realize that.



No, it's very clearly a matter of you simply not a) knowing at all what you are talking about and b) trying to poison the well here. You have a constant history of trying to downplay Saint Seiya, you have a consistent history of a dishonest poster who has never shown a scrap of knowledge on how Saint Seiya's cosmology works or the scope of their powers and consistently try to bullshit about it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> You don't understand anything about Saint Seiya, which is nothing new.



Golds aren't universal tier, even Thanatos probably isn't.



Fang said:


> Japanese kanji said universe, right out of Iapetos mouth in Episode G during the Mu-Iapetos fight. Try again, kiddo.



Dimension Iapetos, with the power of creating dimensions.




Fang said:


> Just like the Bronzes did which is why the concept of creating and activating miracles through their Cosmos is literally actualized deus ex machina. Also further proof you have no idea what you are talking about:
> 
> >author's name is Okada not Okeda
> >completely ignore Mu erasing a literal pocket universe with SE
> ...



AD is a BFR move, Angyo and Ungyo are concepts and Cronos was a nerfed ghost.



Fang said:


> No, it's very clearly a matter of you simply not a) knowing at all what you are talking about and b) trying to poison the well here. You have a constant history of trying to downplay Saint Seiya, you have a consistent history of a dishonest poster who has never shown a scrap of knowledge on how Saint Seiya's cosmology works or the scope of their powers and consistently try to bullshit about it.



No, I don't give a darn about headcannons.
-AE: Big Bang
-GE:Galaxy Level
-Shaka get's erased by AE, the thing is forbidden for it's power.
-Thanatos is awed by a universe being destroyed.
-Titans are nerfed to hell and back by seals, if they aren't Golds get oneshoted because the Titans fought the Olympians to a near stalemate.

For everything else people can go and read the manga and get their own conclusions.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Golds aren't universal tier, even Thanatos probably isn't.



Wrong.



> Dimension Iapetos, with the power of creating dimensions.



Wrong.



> AD is a BFR move



Confirmed for not knowing how AD works as well, neat. Also funny how Saga has used it on his opponent's bodies to kill them or destroy incorporeal beings but sure its just a "BFR move".



> Angyo and Ungyo are concepts



Wrong.



> and Cronos was a nerfed ghost.



A "nerfed" Cronos is still more powerful than any of the other Titans even their two-sealed forms as confirmed by both Hyperion and Coeus. Try again, sweetie.



> No, I don't give a darn about headcannons.



That's why no one gives a fuck about your bullshit when it comes to Saint Seiya.



> -AE: Big Bang



Three universal level Gold Saints would make an AE above a standard Big Bang. So wrong again.



> -GE:Galaxy Level



Wrong. GE > SE > SE is above erasing a pocket universe. Try again kiddo.



> -Shaka get's erased by AE, the thing is forbidden for it's power.



Shaka being killed by an AE didn't stop him from reviving himself or reincarnating his Gold Cloth which got atomized by it. Or attaining the 8th Sense and coming back stronger as Episode G - A and ND have shown.

Try again.



> -Thanatos is awed by a universe being destroyed.



I don't even know what crap you are saying here.



> -Titans are nerfed to hell and back by seals, if they aren't Golds get oneshoted because the Titans fought the Oliumpians to a near stalemate.



Memory seal has nothing to do with the power seal Mnemosyne placed on the other Titans. Stop proving you know jackshit about Saint Seiya over and over again ad naseum. Pontos tried to corrupt and transform Aiolia against his will into a mind-wiped Servant with his Dunamis being utilized as reality warping and failed with Aiolia used the 7th Sense to resist it.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Also, just for fun: Pontos also confirmed regardless of the memory seal, the power and durability of the holy armors the Titans wore weren't effected by the mental status of the Titans so Shura cutting through Kreios armor, Aiolia using PB on Coeus's armor, or taking down Hyperion is further proof you don't know shit.



> For everything else people can go and read the manga and get their own conclusions.



You mean like how you have never read Saint Seiya yet pretend to have a clue about it? Adorable.

Reactions: Like 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Whatever the scans are there, if people want to keep believing or trying to trick noobs with Golds being universe level you are free to do so, just don't start actually believing your own bullshit.

Reactions: Ningen 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

Scans have been posted plenty of times and you always dipped out like the troll you are when blown out by them in the past. Just because you are parroting your prior actions of making shit up and downplaying means nothing to anyone else here.

Try again.

So to recap:

- You have no clue what you are talking about in regards to Saint Seiya
- You lie out of your ass about Saint Seiya 
- You got blown out again

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Steven (Apr 3, 2018)

This is a absolutly shitstomp.

SSV wins


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

See, no argument, just:
-Wrong
-You don't know anything about SS, despite obviously having practically memorized all manghas and interviews.

Keep disregarding all oficial statements, dialogues and feats, doing great for that credibility.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> *snip*





Fang said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Try again. I even gave specific examples of statements while you pull shit out of your ass and vomit that rhetoric like anyone cares, your bullshit isn't being bought.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

I had Trexalfa look over the Mu vs Iapetos fight and he confirms that indeed Iapetos was creating universes and that Mu erased it with his Starlight Extinction.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> I had Trexalfa look over the Mu vs Iapetos fight and he confirms that indeed Iapetos was creating universes and that Mu erased it with his Starlight Extinction.



Archangel also confirmed from the Japanese raw and French version that it was indeed 'universe' and not dimension. Same with GM as well going by the Chinese version, so nice to know we've had that officiated three fucking times in the OBD since 2009.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> Archangel also confirmed from the Japanese raw and French version that it was indeed 'universe' and not dimension. Same with GM as well going by the Chinese version, so nice to know we've had that officiated three fucking times in the OBD since 2009.


I also had Trexalfa look into the Saga Gaiden about the "distorting the universe" bit and he got "bending spacetime" and showed me the kanji. Did Archangel and GM look into it?

Either way, I'm sure that Saga distorts the universe since we've seen other Gold Saints warp and bend spaces with that technique.


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 3, 2018)

This reminds me of OMGMAN and I am disgusted

Reactions: Funny 1


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

All I’m still seeing from 4th dimension reiatsu here is a lot of bitching and nothing worth noting.

Shaka and Shijima were creating and destroying a universe during their clash. 

Two-Sealed Iapetos created a universe which Mu lolnoped with Starlight Extinction.

Saga nearly killed Three-Sealed Cronus who’s above Two-Sealed Iapetos who created said universe.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## geeknerd22ducks (Apr 3, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> This reminds me of OMGMAN and I am disgusted



Explain yourself man. What are you talking about?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> >ones that are literally from Chinese to Spanish to English rather than official ones in Spanish, French, Japanese or even English








Fang said:


> How about a scan of Shiryuu pushing an AE clash between two groups of Gold Saints, troll kun?



And what's the point of that?


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## Imagine (Apr 3, 2018)

geeknerd22ducks said:


> Explain yourself man. What are you talking about?


OMGMAN is a hardcore FT wanker that uses dishonest methods in an attempt boost his favorite series.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> I also had Trexalfa look into the Saga Gaiden about the "distorting the universe" bit and he got "bending spacetime" and showed me the kanji. Did Archangel and GM look into it?
> 
> Either way, I'm sure that Saga distorts the universe since we've seen other Gold Saints warp and bend spaces with that technique.



Another Dimention sends the target to another dimension by distorting space, that's it. There's nothing about affecting the space time trough an entire universe.



NightmareCinema said:


> Shaka and Shijima were creating and destroying a universe during their clash.



Again, not a power related thing, is the clash of creation and destruction based on Budism ideas

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Another Dimention sends the target to another dimension by distorting space, that's it. There's nothing about affecting the space time trough an entire universe.


That's wrong since the scan Fang posted shows Saga killing the ghosts with his AD. Saga has also used it offensively against Cronus and Shaka and nearly killed them with both. It's not just a BFR technique.

Moreover, I'm pretty sure Saga was using that technique to bend space around in his fight with Cronus.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> [And what's the point of that?



That you lie a lot.



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> *snip*



Wrong.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> That's wrong since the scan Fang posted shows Saga killing the ghosts with his AD. Saga has also used it offensively against Cronus and Shaka and nearly killed them with both. It's not just a BFR technique.
> 
> Moreover, I'm pretty sure Saga was using that technique to bend space around in his fight with Cronus.



Yes it bends space but it's main use is BFR to the space between dimensions, you can check the Gemini temple battle (with the empty armor) or the technique's description.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Yes it bends space but it's main use is BFR to the space between dimensions, you can check the Gemini temple battle (with the empty armor) or the technique's description.


Again, we've seen that ability distort spaces before. We've also seen Saga use it to fuck with Cronus. Also, I don't really care about the technique's description, I asked Fang a question about the translations. We've established earlier Kurumada isn't a reliable source so just stop already.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> That you lie a lot.



You accused me of not using the oficial scan, I post a scan from the physical copy (that I own) that says the exact same thing and you still call me a liar lol


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> That's wrong since the scan Fang posted shows Saga killing the ghosts with his AD. Saga has also used it offensively against Cronus and Shaka and nearly killed them with both. It's not just a BFR technique.
> 
> Moreover, I'm pretty sure Saga was using that technique to bend space around in his fight with Cronus.





He did indeed.

Reactions: Like 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Again, we've seen that ability distort spaces before. We've also seen Saga use it to fuck with Cronus. Also, I don't really care about the technique's description, I asked Fang a question about the translations. We've established earlier Kurumada isn't a reliable source so just stop already.



Well yeah, that's the mechanic of the technique but he never distorts an entire universe but it BFR trough that method also if anything we found that Kurumada was very knowledgeable about the descriptions he gave back then..


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

>Galaxian Explosion
>An attack with the power of an exploding galaxy
>Yet has feats of harming universe level+ characters

Feats > statements

Every. Single. Time.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You accused me of not using the oficial scan, I post a scan from the physical copy (that I own) that says the exact same thing and you still call me a liar lol



You didn't post a scan of a physical copy you used. Also funnily enough only shortly before that you posted the mistranslated HK one on purpose trying to downplay.

You have no credibility. Especially when said HK tier English mistranslated one is totally off the mark. 

"Rivals a big bang" is not the same as "focused big bang".

Get the hell out of here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

>literally posted a scan of Saga trying to kill Cronus directly with AD by destroying the space he occupies
>"he never used it like that"

Despite the gaiden already confirmed universal range for AD on top of that.

Salty as can salt be.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> You didn't post a scan of a physical copy you used. Also funnily enough only shortly before that you posted the mistranslated HK one on purpose trying to downplay.
> 
> You have no credibility. Especially when said HK tier English mistranslated one is totally off the mark.
> 
> ...



Both scans say the exact same thing, do you even spanish?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Well yeah, that's the mechanic of the technique but he never distorts an entire universe but it BFR trough that method also if anything we found that Kurumada was very knowledgeable about the descriptions he gave back then..


And yet Fang provided me a scan showing that Saga was warping space around with the battle with Cronus. The range may not have been universal but you can clearly see that it reached out into space a great deal. That definitely implies it's got more range than you're implying it has.

And just like NC said. Feats over statements. Always.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

I like how L4DR says he’s going to debunk universe level Gold Saints and multiversal+ TTGL but has failed spectacularly on both counts.

Goes to show how incompetent he is.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> And yet Fang provided me a scan showing that Saga was warping space around with the battle with Cronus. The range may not have been universal but you can clearly see that it reached out into space a great deal. That definitely implies it's got more range than you're implying it has.
> 
> And just like NC said. Feats over statements. Always.



What i'm saying is that is useless as a measure of destructive power because the technique works by distorting space.



Fang said:


> No they don't. The official Viz translation is closer but not as accurate and the mistranslated ORIGINAL one you posted is even further away being machine translated from Chinese raws.
> 
> You are the same kind of downplayer as a certain poster who goes unnamed who tried to bullshit with the Japanese and Spanish versions claiming Saga and Kanon are equal when Rob and Qing showed up and stated that was patently false. So no, bullshit.



I'm telling you both scans say the exact same thing, the second is the oficial Spanish version.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> What i'm saying is that is useless as a measure of destructive power because the technique works by distorting space.


Except that's wrong given that Saga almost killed Shaka with it, almost killed Cronus with it and merked those ghosts he fought. At least three instances of Saga using it as an offensive technique that can wound and kill people. And that's just Saga alone, that's not mentioning the other Geminis.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> What i'm saying is that is useless as a measure of destructive power because the technique works by distorting space.


Which is bullshit because Another Dimension can clearly harm universe level+ beings like Three-Sealed Cronus, Shaka, and Shura. So no, you’re full of shit. You can definitely use AD as a measure of destructive power.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> What i'm saying is that is useless as a measure of destructive power because the technique works by distorting space.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling you both scans say the exact same thing, the second is the oficial Spanish version.



What I am telling you is you are a liar and a disingenuous poster with an attested track record of lying about Saint Seiya and downplaying it. You have no idea what you are talking about. Period. Also the fact you outright lied three or four times now on how Another Dimension works or the fact it can be used offensively as an attack isn't helping either.

Shaka outright states he would've died if he was hit by it a second time.

So stop fucking putting horse shit out here trying to fool people with your lying.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Except that's wrong given that Saga almost killed Shaka with it, almost killed Cronus with it and merked those ghosts he fought. At least three instances of Saga using it as an offensive technique that can wound and kill people. And that's just Saga alone, that's not mentioning the other Geminis.



It doesn't kill.



NightmareCinema said:


> Which is bullshit because Another Dimension can clearly harm universe level+ beings like Three-Sealed Cronus, Shaka, and Shura. So no, you’re full of shit. You can definitely use AD as a measure of destructive power.



Same as you can measure destructive power using Kuwabara's dimensional cutting sword.



Fang said:


> What I am telling you is you are a liar and a disingenuous poster with an attested track record of lying about Saint Seiya and downplaying it. You have no idea what you are talking about. Period. Also the fact you outright lied three or four times now on how Another Dimension works or the fact it can be used offensively as an attack isn't helping either.
> 
> Shaka outright states he would've died if he was hit by it a second time.
> 
> So stop fucking putting horse shit out here trying to fool people with your lying.



Take the viz scan and go cry somewhere else, the 3 scans say the exact same thing


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

And this is the Big Bang they are talking about, our own single universe Big Bang


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

>first posts a machine translated HK scan that's inaccurate
>now posts a English translation from Viz that isn't fully correct either which is not the same as the attempt to conflate it with the exact same wording the Spanish, Japanese, French, or Portuguese versions use

Try again, kiddo.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

>also gives no rebuttal for being called out on lying about Saga using AD vs Shaka or Cronos

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It doesn't kill.


 


Sure looks like Saga was about to kill Shaka and killed that ghost.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Sure looks like Saga was about to kill Shaka and killed that ghost.



It BFR the Ghost


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It BFR the Ghost



Wrong.

Also ThanatoSeraph also confirmed from the raw here that Shaka literally says "would die" if he's hit by Saga's Another Dimension a second time.

Raw just to shove more in downplay kun's face.



Why do you lie so much Reiatsu?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

Also Saga using AD to again rip and shred Cronos' astral form.

"Can't use it for attacking an opponent directly" my ass.

Reactions: Like 3


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> Wrong.



You can see the gate closing on the ghost, just like it happened when Cronos grabed the dimensional edges to not be BFR'd.




Fang said:


> Also ThanatoSeraph also confirmed from the raw here that Shaka literally says "would die" if he's hit by Saga's Another Dimension a second time.
> 
> Raw just to shove more in downplay kun's face.



He said he will die if he keeps fighting the 3 of them, in all translations.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You can see the gate closing on the ghost, just like it happened here



There is no gate. Stop lying. Also nice shitty attempt at moving the goal post:

- First and multiple times you claimed Saga can't attack only "BRF" with AD
- I post Saga attacking Cronos internally with AD ripping his spirit body up and you reply with:
- "Muh gates"

Are you the second coming Unknown?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He said he will die if he keeps fighting the 3 of them, in all translations.



>doesn't match the Spanish version
>doesn't match the Japanese version

Nope also has nothing to so with Shaka specifically saying he'd die being hit a second time by Saga's AD.

You are such a fucking liar.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

>Shaka's line is literally about Saga's AD in the final panel on the bottom left and him dying to it if he's struck by it a second and final time
>And nothing else at all

Try harder dude.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

The visuals also show Shaka getting winded and knocked down on one knee, implying to the reader that he got mortally wounded by the attack.

So whichever translation you use, it doesn't change the choice of visuals Kurumada went with.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Imagine (Apr 3, 2018)

Give credit where it's due. When L4DR digs his grave, he _*firmly*_ plants both feet in the ground.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> There is no gate. Stop lying. Also nice shitty attempt at moving the goal post:
> 
> - First and multiple times you claimed Saga can't attack only "BRF" with AD
> - I post Saga attacking Cronos internally with AD ripping his spirit body up and you reply with:
> ...



Saga only seems to cut the hands from the temporal body,  Kronos takes no real damage until the dager gets in play, also the ghost was clearly BFR'd as almost happens to Kronos



Fang said:


> >doesn't match the Spanish version
> >doesn't match the Japanese version
> 
> Nope also has nothing to so with Shaka specifically saying he'd die being hit a second time by Saga's AD.
> ...



It's the same in all 3

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

If you think obstinate is a virtue then maybe


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Saga only seems to cut the hands from the temporal body,  Kronos takes no real damage until the dager gets in play, also the ghost was clearly BFR'd as almost happens to Kronos



Its not, this is just you lying through your teeth again. Also nice fanfiction but the scans from the original manga, Saga Gaiden, and G themselves show you are wrong blatantly so.



> It's the same in all 3



It's not that either. You are just deflecting since you keep pulling shit out of your ass.

No one is buying your lies. Just like every other time Rob, Qing, or anyone else who speaks Spanish have called out your kind of bullshit and you run with your tail between your legs in anything involving Saint Seiya.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> The visuals also show Shaka getting winded and knocked down on one knee, implying to the reader that he got mortally wounded by the attack.
> 
> So whichever translation you use, it doesn't change the choice of visuals Kurumada went with.



Look for yourself what happened when he tried AD in Kronos.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> Also Saga using AD to again rip and shred Cronos' astral form.
> 
> "Can't use it for attacking an opponent directly" my ass.



And like five pages or so later we have this when Saga uses it directly on Cronos body right after that. Talk about being obstinate.

Try harder.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> And this is the Big Bang they are talking about, our own single universe Big Bang


Still relying on statements, huh? If the AE has feats of harming a universe level+ to multiverse level character, then the AE is multiverse level.

Relying on statements to downplay feats is downright dumb considering feats happen as is while statements can be easily contradicted by feats.

Unless you want to downplay Dragon Ball to lightspeed level as well because it’s stated that that’s Dyspo’s top speed. Despite there being MFTL+ feats beforehand such as Whis and Beerus traveling lightyears in a minute.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> No one is buying your lies. Just like every other time Rob, Qing, or anyone else who speaks Spanish have called out your kind of bullshit and you run with your tail between your legs in anything involving Saint Seiya.



No, stop with this bullshit.


Shaka: I wont allow myself to be send to another dimension!! Not yet!!

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

"How did he harm my body that has no physical form?"

The attack used is AD. Fang's right, Saga can use AD offensively if he so chooses.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No, stop with this bullshit.



Then stop lying you dishonest troll.

Also funny how now you post the spanish version that has Shaka saying he wouldn't survive a second AD this time. Which doesn't match up with the English version you were trying to push earlier.

You keep failing.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> "How did he harm my body that has no physical form?"
> 
> The attack used is AD. Fang's right, Saga can use AD offensively if he so chooses



That's the golden dagger mean to kill Athena



Fang said:


> Then stop lying you dishonest troll.
> 
> Also funny how now you post the spanish version that has Shaka saying he wouldn't survive a second AD this time.



No he doesn't say that, he says the same as in the Viz version, call someone else to read it for you if you don't believe me.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That's the golden dagger mean to kill Athena



Golden Dagger didn't tear his body up you mook.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That's the golden dagger mean to kill Athena


I checked real quick and Saga does not hold the Dagger in those pages. The only thing he holds is Cronus' scythe, not her dagger. You can also see Saga's AD in the background.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> I checked real quick and Saga does not hold the Dagger in those pages. The only thing he holds is Cronus' scythe, not her dagger. You can also see Saga's AD in the background.



Check again, dagger in the next page, left hand covered by cape.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Check again, dagger in the next page.


You mean the fucking dagger that Saga didn’t try using until he revealed it in that page you’re mentioning?

Yeah, no. You truly are dishonest.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Check again, dagger in the next page.



Check again, liar.

He bleeds after he reforms his body and Saga strikes him with the Gaia Dagger. The dagger has jackshit all to do with him running away from Saga's GE or getting ripped up the second time Saga uses AD on him.

You do nothing but liet 24/7.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> Check again, liar.
> 
> He bleeds after he reforms his body and Saga strikes him with the Gaia Dagger. The dagger has jackshit all to do with him running away from Saga's GE or getting ripped up the second time Saga uses AD on him.
> 
> You do nothing but liet 24/7.



GE or AN did nothing, in the next page Saga says he used the blade, read the dialogues.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> GE did nothing, in the next page Saga shows he used the blade, read the dialogues.



>GE did nothing
>Which is why Cronos gets so scared he has to run away and hide behind Athena's Aegis to protect himself from it which he outright admits
>completely ignore then the second time Saga uses AD to destroy Cronos body 
>Who reforms it following
>Which then follows with him bleeding following Saga attacking him with the Gaia Dagger
>"Tells me to read the dialogue" despite him missing everything and repeatedly proving he can't even read or write in English properly on this very forum

Nice try, bullshitter.

That leads to the conclusion here that:

1. 4th can't read
2. 4th doesn't understand how a sequence is a consecutive order of events happening in corresponding order
3. 4th doesn't know the difference between Saga's GE technique and Saga's AD technique
4. 4th can't read a manga worth a damn
5. That 4th does not speak or read any language except for really bad English machine translations
6. 4th is a proven liar

Reactions: Like 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

The only time he did any real damage to the extremely nerfed Kronos was with the golden dagger, chapter 31 for anyone that wants to check for themselves


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

Saga didn’t use the blade, he pulls out the blade.

Cronus then expresses shock at the fact that Saga has a weapon that can potentially kill him then and there.

There was absolutely no dialogue about Saga using the dagger on Cronus beforehand.

Which tells us that L4DR is once again lying. To the surprise of no one.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

Why would anyone else need to check anything when you are caught like 10 times lying and scans have been posted showing it? Much less the fact you can't even write or read English properly much less Spanish or Japanese.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The only time he did any real damage to the extremely nerfed Kronos was with the golden dagger, chapter 31 for anyone that wants to check for themselves


Don’t bullshit considering I read the chapter back then and I remember how that fight went. Holy shit, you’re fucking terrible at downplaying.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

>Cronus hides from Saga's GE

I like how Cronus even shows surprise at Saga damaging Athena's God Cloth with "Did he damage it this much?!"

Definitely not universal

Reactions: Like 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> >Cronus hides from Saga's GE
> 
> I like how Cronus even shows surprise at Saga damaging Athena's God Cloth with "Did he damage it this much?!"
> 
> Definitely not universal



Kronos god Ichor thing was only afected by the dagger, that's why he is surprised when he gets sliced.

I can't find Episode G scans that aren't forbidden domained tho


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## geeknerd22ducks (Apr 3, 2018)

NightmareCinema said:


> Still relying on statements, huh? If the AE has feats of harming a universe level+ to multiverse level character, then the AE is multiverse level.
> 
> Relying on statements to downplay feats is downright dumb considering feats happen as is while statements can be easily contradicted by feats.
> 
> Unless you want to downplay Dragon Ball to lightspeed level as well because it’s stated that that’s Dyspo’s top speed. Despite there being MFTL+ feats beforehand such as Whis and Beerus traveling lightyears in a minute.



It was stated Dyspo surpassed sound and light.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Kronos god Ichor thing was only afected by the dagger, that's why he is surprised when he gets sliced.
> 
> I can't find Episode G scans that aren't forbidden domained tho



>still moving the goal posts

Adorable.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Kronos god Ichor thing was only afected by the dagger, that's why he is surprised when he gets sliced.
> 
> I can't find Episode G scans that aren't forbidden domained tho


It's not. I checked the pages again and again and nowhere does Saga ever stab Cronus with it. Look at the page I posted of Saga knocking him back with the AD.

Unless you can show me where Saga stabbed him with it before unveiling the Dagger to finish Cronus off with it, you're wrong.

Especially since knives don't work like that. You can't stab someone without physically touching them.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

@ThanatoSeraph 

Your input is necessary.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> It's not. I checked the pages again and again and nowhere does Saga ever stab Cronus with it. Look at the page I posted of Saga knocking him back with the AD.
> 
> Unless you can show me where Saga stabbed him with it before unveiling the Dagger to finish Cronus off with it, you're wrong.
> 
> Especially since knives don't work like that. You can't stab someone without physically touching them.



Ichor is a god's protection from everything, it was affected by the Dagger made to kill gods that Kronos gave to Saga, that's why the dialogue is:

Kronos:_What did you do? How did you harm my body that has no physical form?_
Saga: _This is what I asked you for, the power to kill a god. For this reason you bestowed on me, the divine power.
_
The line of light is the Dagger cutting Kronos, you can't see it because is in Saga's left
hand


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Ichor is a god's protection from everything, it was affected by the Dagger made to kill gods that Kronos gave to Saga, that's why the dialogue is:
> 
> Kronos:_What did you do? How did you harm my body that has no physical form?_
> Saga: _This is what I asked you for, the power to kill a god. For this power you bestowed on me, the divine power._


So you have no proof that he stabbed Cronus with that dagger and are just relying on dialogue? That dialogue doesn't prove a thing especially when Cronus says beforehand that he chose Saga as a Godkiller without mentioning the Dagger.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

At no point does Saga stab Cronus with his Dagger up to its unveiling.

Reactions: Like 1


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

Which means all of jack and shit because Cronus still decided to hide behind Athena’s statue which Cronus confirms has her defensive Cosmo backing it up.

Yet Saga’s Galaxian Explosion still damaged the statue heavily. Cronus then says that he didn’t expect anything less from Gemini Saga, the man he chose to be a godslayer.

Unless you want to say that Athena’s Cosmo is shit weak now which it isn’t.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> So you have no proof that he stabbed Cronus with that dagger and are just relying on dialogue? That dialogue doesn't prove a thing especially when Cronus says beforehand that he chose Saga as a Godkiller without mentioning the Dagger.



No, i'm not saying he stabbed Kronos after that attack, the panel with the giant "!" isn't AD, is the dagger cutting the titan.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> At no point does Saga stab Cronus with his Dagger up to its unveiling.


>Saga slices Cronus with his right hand
>Golden Dagger is shown in his left hand

Yeah... L4DR is truly dumb.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

The cut starts from high right to low left, look at Saga's line of sight and back.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

Hey, L4DR. I’m still waiting for you to debunk universe level Gold Saints and multiversal+ TTGL. Don’t keep me waiting.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No, i'm not saying he stabbed Kronos, the panel with the giant "!" isn't AD, is the dagger.


It's not the Dagger. We still see Cronus is quite far from Saga when he unveils that Dagger.





We see Saga even jumping at Cronus right before his evil side takes over and stops him from doing the deed


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> We see Saga even jumping at Cronus right before his evil side takes over and stops him from doing the deed



It's the dagger, if you look carefully, the line from the cut goes over Saga's right arm.

Also the Ichor thing.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It's the dagger, if you look carefully, the line from the cut goes over Saga's right arm.
> 
> Also the Ichor thing.


That still doesn't change that Saga is still far away from Cronus. Too far away for him to cut Cronus in anyway with it.

That's why he leaps at Cronus to deal the final blow. That's the point of him taking the dagger out to kill him.

Saga wore Cronus down and then brought out the Dagger to finish Cronus off.

Everyone in this thread is seeing that except for you.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

>ichor
>"Gods protection

Lmao

Ichor in Saint Seiya is a God's blood


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> That still doesn't change that Saga is still far away from Cronus. Too far away for him to cut Cronus in anyway with it.
> 
> That's why he leaps at Cronus to deal the final blow. That's the point of him taking the dagger out to kill him.
> 
> ...



Distance is of little importance seeing this part


It's definitely not AD, is something sharp in his left hand.


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## Porshion (Apr 3, 2018)

JJBA still loses regardless where this discussion is going


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

Everyone loses because Reiatsu just makes shit up

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Distance is of little importance seeing this part
> 
> 
> It's definitely not AD, is something sharp in his left hand.


That's his hand. The big white line is the dividing line of the AD. It's always been depicted that way.

You're grasping at straws at this point.


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## Porshion (Apr 3, 2018)

That's legit too kek


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> That's his hand. The big white line is the dividing line of the AD. It's always been depicted that way.
> 
> You're grasping at straws at this point.



His hand is behind that line, which is the path from the blade and not the dividing line from the dimensional rift in AD.

That's why there's no distorted space behind the cut.


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> His hand is behind that line.


It's not behind the line, that's his arm. His hand isn't holding anything. So there's no way he could have done anything with the Dagger when he wasn't holding it in that hand.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

>claims the line is from his right hand
>post scan of his left
>which is just Saga doing the normal aesthetic of performing AD

Jesus christ you are beyond helpless


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> >claims the line is from his right hand
> >post scan of his left
> >which is just Saga doing the normal aesthetic of performing AD
> 
> Jesus christ you are beyond helpless



You seriously can't differentiate right from left?


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You seriously can't differentiate right from left?



This is ironic given you can't even tell the difference between AD and GE and keep lying through your teeth now trying to claim AD move as being a knife cut.

Sad.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Now it's become obvious that isn't AD and that Gold Saints aren't universal, some other day I will explain why Kronos isn't multiversal in episode G.

And neither is TTGL


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Apr 3, 2018)

Shut the fuck up

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Sablés (Apr 3, 2018)

9 pages of fucking nonsense.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Shut the fuck up



Now that you are here, translate the spanish scans for Fang because he doesn't believe me when I do it.

That way you posting here is useful for something.


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## Fang (Apr 3, 2018)

Sablés said:


> 9 pages of fucking nonsense.



What do you expect when its the one dude spamming verbal diarrhea.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Now that you are here, translate the spanish scans for Fang because he doesn't believe me when I do it.
> 
> That way you posting here is useful for something.


How about I don't do jack shit and you fuck off? : )

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Now it's become obvious that isn't AD and that Gold Saints aren't universal, some other day I will explain why Kronos isn't multiversal in episode G.
> 
> And neither is TTGL


Because you totally explained it in this thread, right?

You failed to come up with good points as to why Gold Saints aren’t universal and you failed to counter any of my points as to why TTGL is multiversal+

You have nothing.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> How about I don't do jack shit and you fuck off? : )



If you where going to do shit you wouldn't bother to post, or teach spanish to other OBD'ers so we don't lose time on "i don't believe your translation" 



NightmareCinema said:


> Because you totally explained it in this thread, right?
> 
> You failed to come up with good points as to why Gold Saints aren’t universal and you failed to counter any of my points as to why TTGL is multiversal+
> 
> You have nothing.



Sure thing, and Saga sliced Kronos with his right hand.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Shut the fuck up
> 
> 
> Shut the fuck up 2: Electric Boogaloo

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 5 | Ningen 1


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> -snip-


Fuck off and go back to wanking off to Bleach. That’s all you’re ever good for anyway.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

NightmareCinema said:


> Fuck off and go back to wanking off to Bleach. That’s all you’re ever good for anyway.



You know they have an infinite dimension in SS.

Will you argue for universe level Bleach like Source of Hate, since any dimension=universe as long as it is infinite?


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You know they have an infinite dimension in SS.
> 
> Will you argue for universe level Bleach like Source of Hate?


You mean the dimension that’s only as big as a planet?

Your bait is low tier. I’ve seen a dumbass from SpaceBattles make posts with more credibility than you.

Also, posting smileys like that doesn’t take away from the fact that you’re triggered over getting shat on by everyone in this thread.

GG no re, nerd. You failed to disprove universe level Gold Saints and you failed to disprove multiverse level+ TTGL. Good job at failing. Take your L and enjoy it.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kaaant (Apr 3, 2018)

All you Mexicans need to get back to work and stop translating animu


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## Imagine (Apr 3, 2018)

Translating SS is the work.


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## Adamant soul (Apr 3, 2018)

Why does it matter weather the Gold Saints are universal or not? The vast majority of JJBA (except GER) gets obliterated like nothing regardless so why this argument is continuing after 7 pages is beyond me?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 3, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> hy does it matter weather the Gold Saints are universal or not? The vast majority of JJBA (except GER) gets obliterated like nothing regardless so why this argument is continuing after 7 pages is beyond me?



Because there's really nothing to debate, the answer is that only GER can do something up until the gods where he gets stomped. But if they where universal tier the GS would also win, maybe even without that as long as they have divine protection


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 3, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No, stop with this bullshit.
> Shaka: I wont allow myself to be send to another dimension!! Not yet!!


You are using the old translation in Spanish. The new translation updated in Spanish is different and has the same translation as the English version.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> And this is the Big Bang they are talking about, our own single universe Big Bang.


The big bang in Saint Seiya created the entire universe, which is currently a multiverse or universe of multiple universes (or multiverses in Okada's words). At present, the franchise became a multiverse described in Assassin, Next Dimension, Lost Canvas, etc. This universe or multiverse was born with the big bang unleashed by Khronos in the Hypermyth.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Keep disregarding all oficial statements, dialogues and feats, doing great for that credibility.


The feats and descriptions indicate that the Gold Saints are universal level.

- Seiya destroys the pillar that can resist the end of the universe. Seiya with God Cloth is infinitely more powerful. Shiryu stops the power of the two Athena Exclamation.
- In Golden Age it is described that the Gold Saints can destroy the universe.
- In Episode G it is described that Titans (weakened) can create universes. Mu destroys a universe with his technique. The fight of Iapetos, Themis, Aiolia and Shaka destroys the universe created by the Titans. Iapetos (almost dead) resists the destruction of his universe.
- In Next Dimension the fight of Shaka and Shijima destroys and creates countless universes. Keep disregarding all oficial statements, the dialogues and drawings of Kurumada with absurd theories.
- In Kurumada Suikoden, Shiryu without armor defeats the Chaos Emperor with the seiken swords, the power of the ten swords can destroy the universe in Fuma no Kojiro. Ikki can fight against Iliad who can manipulate the history of the multiverse.
- In Assasin the power of the AE can reach a dimension outside space-time, tear the universe, distort the worlds of life and death (a multiverse). The power of Mu (without using its maximum power) is described as a universe by the priests in the temple. The Galaxian Explosion is described as a force that can shake the worlds (or the multiverse).

Reactions: Like 1


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 4, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Because there's really nothing to debate, the answer is that only GER can do something up until the gods where he gets stomped. But if they where universal tier the GS would also win, maybe even without that as long as they have divine protection


>If they were

They are universe level and no amount of dishonesty coming from you will change that.

>Rating my post “Optimistic”

I’ll take that as a concession. Now fuck off.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Imagine (Apr 4, 2018)

Does the multiverse stuff make LC canon now?


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## Blakk Jakk (Apr 4, 2018)

Imagine said:


> Does the multiverse stuff make LC canon now?


In a very complicated way yeah


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## Imagine (Apr 4, 2018)

Good shit


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 4, 2018)

It still has some pretty big inconsistencies but nothing you can't just disregard as lol different universe. It's future is the original manga anyway.


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## Gutts X3 (Apr 4, 2018)

Imagine said:


> Does the multiverse stuff make LC canon now?


Possibly, in the Lost Canvas story is described that the time has countless possibilities. Youma/Kairos (a god of time) mentions the existence of other parallel worlds. The main LC timeline is created by the time travel of Avenir (the Aries Saint of the future), who time travel to change the future where Hades won the war and killed all the Saints and Athena.


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## Fang (Apr 4, 2018)

I think its hilarious how he doesn't speak Spanish and is begging someone he knows hates him to defend his poorly constructed claims. Salty level is hilarious.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Masterblack06 (Apr 4, 2018)

The entire thread has just been people activating this trap card against this man

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Imagine (Apr 4, 2018)

Gutts X3 said:


> Possibly, in the Lost Canvas story is described that the time has countless possibilities. Youma/Kairos (a god of time) mentions the existence of other parallel worlds. The main LC timeline is created by the time travel of Avenir (the Aries Saint of the future), who time travel to change the future where Hades won the war and killed all the Saints and Athena.


Still sounds pretty good


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## Fang (Apr 5, 2018)

Laughing at yourself is also pretty cringe inducing.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## MatthewSchroeder (Apr 5, 2018)

The clash between Aspros and Defteros' Galaxian Explosions is outright compared to the Big Bang that created the universe by narration.

So shut the fuck up about GE only being Galaxy level.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Blade (Apr 5, 2018)

roof level GE even

fucking terrible thread, overall

-10/10

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kaaant (Apr 5, 2018)

Is saint seiya actually good


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## MatthewSchroeder (Apr 5, 2018)

Classic Manga is super dated, but classic. ND is just as dated but worse since it is a current manga. Lost Canvas, Episode G, and Saintia Sho are all very good, tho.

Stay away from Episode Zero at all costs, tho.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> Laughing at yourself is also pretty cringe inducing.



You have either been completely wrong or incredibly dishonest through the whole thread, being proven wrong with every translation, using scans out of context, negating what is clearly drawn in the page and then thinking I don't speak Spanish even after I told you I have the whole manga print up until IVREA droped the thing the first time,which mean is my first language,  that's why is so hilarious 

I told that user to translate the thing because obviously you valuate their input, how he feels about me is irrelevant.

You accused me of using bad translations on purpose, saying Viz scans said another thing, I show you the Viz scans and you keep being stubborn.

Is just amazing, thinking no one realizes how much bullshit you are spewing page after page 



MatthewSchroeder said:


> The clash between Aspros and Defteros' Galaxian Explosions is outright compared to the Big Bang that created the universe by narration.
> 
> So shut the fuck up about GE only being Galaxy lev



Because it's a clash of galaxy level techniques, and it's not mean in a literal way unless you thing they also embody the concepts of good and evil.

Even then, is a clash of techniques so it's more that their individual output, likely exponentially so.

You would be better with G databook that says something along the lines of "GE is the power of crumbling galaxies or the power of exploding galaxies" or something like it.


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## Huey Freeman (Apr 5, 2018)

2018 and people are still trying to debate with Fang


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## Iwandesu (Apr 6, 2018)

Huey Freeman said:


> 2018 and people are still trying to debate with Fang


​

Reactions: Funny 2


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