# Johan Liebert vs TDK Joker



## Bender (Oct 6, 2011)

Monster

Johan Liebert




VS.

The Dark Knight

Joker





1.When it comes to corrupting people who do you think is the boss?
2. Who's number two is better? (Roberto or Two-face (isn't really but hey Harvey is regardless)
3. Which one of the kills made by these two pissed you off more?(By which I mean killing someone who you think didn't deserve it all that much..Even if you did you find cruel)
4. Who is the more intelligent?
5. Who's character design do you like more?
6. Who had the more badass kill?
7. Who creeps you out more?
8. Who is the more affably evil(Meaning evil but funny at the same. Can't help but like cuz of it)?
9. The sick twisted criminal mastermind you like Overall? (Poll)

Rules-
Restrictions: The Johan convincing that guy to commit suicide. (It is no doubt that was one of the most badass showings but eh kinda makes it unfair. Other references plz.)


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## Bender (Oct 6, 2011)

lol mixed up the pics


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## Lucaniel (Oct 6, 2011)

what the fuck

johan stomps in all scenarios

except that humour one but who cares


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## Lucifeller (Oct 6, 2011)

What Lucaniel said. The only category where Joker could outdo Johan is the affability one. Other than that, even the Joker himself would consider Johan a complete monster of the worst kind. Seriously, what HAS the Joker done in TDK that's even comparable to some of the minor stuff Johan does for the lulz, like sending a kid to look for his mom in PRAGUE'S RED LIGHT DISTRICT of all places after amiably conversing with him and being all friendly, for no other reason than he had freaking nothing better to do than ruin someone's innocence forever?


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## Bender (Oct 6, 2011)

Lucifeller said:
			
		

> Seriously, what HAS the Joker done in TDK that's even comparable to some of the minor stuff Johan does for the lulz, like sending a kid to look for his mom in PRAGUE'S RED LIGHT DISTRICT of all places after amiably conversing with him and being all friendly, for no other reason than he had freaking nothing better to do than ruin someone's innocence forever?




Eh, there's the whole rank robbery which one of the mobsters noticed he instilled fear and doubt in his comrades so he could watch them kill off each other. That's pretty much TDK's Joker's M.O. according to the movie. Also Joker successfully corrupted Dent even though he tried to resist it and accused him of blatant lies. Also Johan winning in cruel deaths? Joker made Harvey listen to Rachel in her last moments while he was strapped to a chair.

The rest yeah I agree Johan wins but cruel deaths?


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## Lucifeller (Oct 6, 2011)

I lump more than just being gratuitiously evil to someone under cruel deaths. For me, killing someone dispassionately as if they weren't even worth the effort to acknowledge is also very cruel - Johan has a talent for making his victims feel completely , utterly worthless and unimportant in their last moments, almost as if he was telling them they shouldn't even have bothered being born at all, and that's arguably worse than what Joker does.


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## Bender (Oct 6, 2011)

Lucifeller said:


> I lump more than just being gratuitiously evil to someone under cruel deaths. For me, killing someone dispassionately as if they weren't even worth the effort to acknowledge is also very cruel -





> Johan has a talent for making his victims feel completely , utterly worthless and unimportant in their last moments



Like that PI Richard Br(forget last name), and Roberto after killing Bonparta. 
 That was pretty much fucked up. But then again, Richard killed himself rather then Johan. 

Plus, I kind of restricted that feat. I mean I've seen the series and currently doing a re-run through it so if there are cruel deaths by Johan I'll be sure to look for them. Still Harvey not being able to hear Rachel's last words is fucked up. Also in addition Joker got to continue his whole you-are-no-longer-useful to me schtick by having Harvey reborn as Two-face kill the dirty cops responsible for him and Rachel being kidnapped. 

Hell not just that but Joker got two lackeys to basically kill each other so the other one could live. 



> , almost as if he was telling them they shouldn't even have bothered being born at all, and that's arguably worse than what Joker does.



Harvey was going to probably kill himself as well considering how he realized that he was able to be turned bad himself. 

Eh, now that I think about it I should've made it so this was comic books Joker vs Johan.


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## Bit Sean (Oct 6, 2011)

Comic book Joker at his worst would probably be around Johan's level if not worse (IE, what he did to Barbara and Gordon in Killing Joke).

Johan takes all against TDK Joker though, except maybe 8.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 6, 2011)

Bit Sean said:


> Comic book Joker at his worst would probably be around Johan's level if not worse (IE, what he did to Barbara and Gordon in Killing Joke).
> 
> Johan takes all against TDK Joker though, except maybe 8.



Also the disgusting stunt he pulled off against Gordon's wife in No Man's Land.

But yeah Johan.


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## Bit Sean (Oct 6, 2011)

Charcan said:


> Also the disgusting stunt he pulled off against Gordon's wife in No Man's Land.
> 
> But yeah Johan.



I've not read NML, what did he do?


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## Lucaniel (Oct 6, 2011)

he tricked her into dropping her gun to catch a baby, or quiet some crying babies, or something similar

then killed her


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 6, 2011)




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## Lucifeller (Oct 6, 2011)

...that's a lot of babies. Did he raid a nursery?


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 6, 2011)

Joker went to kidnap a lot of babies of course.


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## Tiger (Oct 6, 2011)

The Joker would idolize Johan Liebert.

The Joker wins in humor and affability, otherwise, he gladly takes notes and Batman is screwed.


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## masamune1 (Oct 6, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> 1.When it comes to corrupting people who do you think is the boss?



The one who turned random strangers into serial killers with a minute-long conversation when they were eight.



> 2. Who's number two is better? (Roberto or Two-face (isn't really but hey Harvey is regardless)



Roberto. Two-Face is is not his number two at all, and isn't as ruthlessly efficient.



> 3. Which one of the kills made by these two pissed you off more?(By which I mean killing someone who you think didn't deserve it all that much..Even if you did you find cruel)



None. I'm a heartless monster.

Johan has got (highly corrupt) orphanages to descend into a last-kid-standing battle royale, nearly did the same with an out-of-the-way village, taught children to play on roof ledges (with the winner being the one who falls and lives, who then becomes a psychopath because of the other stuff he's been teaching them), is a serial mass murderer of elderly couples and families, tried to install a Neo-Nazi puppet government (then changed his mind and murdered his candidate), tried to burn a whole bunch of people alive, deliberately inspired multiple serial killers....I could go on.

And he does this solely because he is evil; he is so evil he is bored with his own evil. He's sort of like the Joker in that both are kind of lonely in their evilness, but Johan is much more far gone and lacking in any human emotions. Plus he's probably The Antichrist. Hell he's worse than even those _Killing Joke_ and _No Mans Land_ Joker's that have been mentioned, since those ones kind of believe they are making the world better in their own uber-twisted way via exposing the madness (Joker's done much worse than either of those cases  though). Johan doesn't really know why he does half the stuff he does- he just _does_ it without a thought, because its his nature. 

Johan is worse, is what I'm saying.



> 4. Who is the more intelligent?



Johan, though Comic Joker is probably smarter.



> 5. Who's character design do you like more?



Hmmmm.....Maybe a tie.

Johan gets points for being more original, purely since _TDK_ Joker is just another version of the Joker.

6. 





> Who had the more badass kill?



I'll give that to Joker, actually. I don't think Johan has had any "badass" kills, like the pencil thing or pulling out a rocket launcher in the middle of a car chase. Basically Joker wins because he's an action villain, whereas Johan is more a drama / psychological horror villain.



> 7. Who creeps you out more?



Both are fluffy kittens in my eyes.



> 8. Who is the more affably evil(Meaning evil but funny at the same. Can't help but like cuz of it)?



Affable means polite, or having charming qualities;. Johan is more affable; Joker is funnier.



> 9. The sick twisted criminal mastermind you like Overall? (Poll)



Meh. Johan, I guess.


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## Z (Oct 6, 2011)

Joker "idolizing" Johan? He doesn't idolize anyone. 

1. Johan (although Joker has better on panel/on screen feats) 
2. Johan
3. None
4. Both seem to be around the same really. 
5. Johan
6. Johan (badass when he was walking away and Roberto shoots the old woman) 
7. Johan
8. Joker
9. Joker



masamune1 said:


> Both are fluffy kittens in my eyes.


lol


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## Endless Mike (Oct 7, 2011)

Use comic Joker


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## Bender (Oct 7, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Use comic Joker



Eh, should I make a new thread to do that or just edit this one?


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 7, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> Eh, should I make a new thread to do that or just edit this one?



Make a new thread with post-FP Joker five years from now.


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## Bender (Oct 7, 2011)

Here's the thread with the comic book version/DCAU of Joker vs Johan:


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