# Composite Samus vs Composite Megaman X



## Plague (Dec 12, 2010)

The start off is an abandoned Galactic Federation ship. They are on opposite sides of each other on the ship, and the power on the ship is barely functional. 

They have no knowledge of each other, other than they know the other must be detroyed. The ship is about 2 miles wide.

Will Samus's guerilla tactics be enough to bring down Megaman X?

Rules: No outside help at all. So no Adam or Alia. No recovery items. 

Scenario 1: Megaman has Ultimate Armor, and Samus has Screw Attack.
Scenario 2: Megaman DOES NOT have Ultimate Armor, and Samus DOES NOT has Screw Attack.

Both are IC


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## zenieth (Dec 12, 2010)

Pretty sure this was done before with samus winning.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

I always say if the match is so obvious in your head, it has likely been made.


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## Soledad Eterna (Dec 12, 2010)

Samus stomps easily.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

zenieth said:


> Pretty sure this was done before with *samus winning*.



That was before you knew about the manga version of X.

Just in case anyone asks.

FUZE=Kazakiri

Normal game X, he loses, composite?


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

Basch what are you speaking of?

Just except Samus winning and carry on with the day to day.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Basch what are you speaking of?
> 
> Just except Samus winning and carry on with the day to day.



Since this is his composite, he has all available feats. The manga version of X is a monster. I edited my previous post with a link to the respect thread.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

I also might need to know about her Metroid: Other M feats, since I lack a Wii.


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## zenieth (Dec 12, 2010)

Samus has her ship.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> I also might need to know about her Metroid: Other M feats, since I lack a Wii.



Why? Other M Samus would be weaker than End Fusion Samus.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

zenieth said:


> Samus has her ship.



The battlefield is set inside one.

And besides the speed when in flight, how much has it tanked?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Why? Other M Samus would be weaker than End Fusion Samus.



It helps to be on to be on top of things, don't wanna be a complete idiot.


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## Plague (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> I also might need to know about her Metroid: Other M feats, since I lack a Wii.



I seen that game. Her Beam has a "Diffusion" function that makes it cover a larger area, making it harder to dodge. Plus, she can stack it with the Wave beam, Ice, and Plasma Beam. (Maybe even more thn that. Thought, I don't think the Long Beam will be of much help.)

I think X is physically stronger.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

I only know of a few--as I've only seen a few vids. Nothing too special.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> I seen that game. Her Beam has a "Diffusion" function that makes it cover a larger area, making it harder to dodge. Plus, she can stack it with the Wave beam, Ice, and Plasma Beam. (Maybe even more thn that. Thought, I don't think the Long Beam will be of much help.)
> 
> *I think X is physically stronger.*



Considering how much power he can dish out in the manga? Christ...

And I completely forgot about Master X. Oh fuck, him with Mother Elf equipped?


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

So how strong is Rockman?

I looked at the link and country level seems...


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## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

X has several timestops available as composite...
Samus doesn't stand a chance.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> So how strong is Rockman?
> 
> *I looked at the link and country level seems*...



Odd?

Hyperbole perhaps?

Yeah, had that discussion before with other people. Believe me, it was in the Megaman X (manga) vs Narutoverse thread I made.

Except,

A) The one who set the tower up was Boomer Kuwanger, and since he's a robot and an A.I, there's no way he can either be lying or have no idea how exactly powerful it can be considering it was made to destroy all of of Japan. And plus he was on the other end of the X Buster and knew how powerful the energy X took to finish him off.

B) The power the tower had at low destroyed an entire town at the start of the chapter. And throughout the chapter, it was powering up, so it was a race against time.

But if you're skeptical about it, we can just go by feats and X can just blow shit up and take some hits and just be plain fast.


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## Plague (Dec 12, 2010)

Purpledrank said:


> X has several timestops available as composite...
> Samus doesn't stand a chance.



But the time stops never work on Bosses. I'm pretty sure samus would count as a boss.

Could Samus's visor "hack" X?


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## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> But the time stops never work on Bosses. I'm pretty sure samus would count as a boss.
> 
> Could Samus's visor "hack" X?



I could just as easily argue that they have a program preventing it instead of game mechanics.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

Samus turns into a ball. Rock stops time. What happens?


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## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Samus turns into a ball. Rock stops time. What happens?



*ROCK'NROLL! YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!*


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## Plague (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Samus turns into a ball. Rock stops time. What happens?



If I remember correctly, Megaman can only you the X buster when he stops time. So I guess he'll sit and shoot at her, til he runs out of energy in his Time Stop thingy. If Samus is still alive (And I'm sure she will be since this is composite.) She'll drop a Power bomb.

But guys, read the Scenario. They are on opposite sides of a 2 mile wide ship. This may take awhile.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> If I remember correctly, Megaman can only you the X buster when he stops time. So I guess he'll sit and shoot at her, til he runs out of energy in his Time Stop thingy. If Samus is still alive (And I'm sure she will be since this is composite.) She'll drop a Power bomb.
> 
> *But guys, read the Scenario. They are on opposite sides of a 2 mile wide ship. This may take awhile.*



If they run at each other at full speed it won't. And X has quite a bit of range, and if we include Master X w/ Mother Elf equipped, he has Planetary range.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

It'll be a ball. Drinks on Rockman, he's such a gentleman.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> It'll be a ball. Drinks on Rockman, he's such a gentleman.



Quite 

Just don't piss him off.

FUZE=Kazakiri
FUZE=Kazakiri
Link removed
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## Plague (Dec 12, 2010)

If X touches spikes or lava, he dies. Samus does not.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> If X touches spikes or lava, he dies. Samus does not.



Game mechanics


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Dec 12, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> If X touches spikes or lava, he dies. Samus does not.



aren't game mechanics wonderful


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 12, 2010)

Hyper Mode says hi


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

ShikiYakumo said:


> aren't game mechanics wonderful



Considering he can tank this

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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 12, 2010)

Which means nothing against a fully stacked charge beam
that's hyperbeam+ phazon beam + Annhilatorbeam + Nova Beam + Defusion Beam (and i'm sure i'm forgetting some) , plus her ridiculous amount of missile and health tanks, screw attacks and powerbombs too.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 12, 2010)

Does Composite Samus include Dark Samus and the SA-X?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> Which means nothing against a fully stacked charge beam
> that's hyperbeam+ phazon beam + Annhilatorbeam + Nova Beam + Defusion Beam (and i'm sure i'm forgetting some) , plus her ridiculous amount of missile and health tanks, screw attacks and powerbombs too.



Have videos that shows actual damage that isn't gameplay related?


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Have videos that shows actual damage that isn't gameplay related?



What's Samus' accepted durability level? The Plasma Beam is stated to be enough to pierce the armor of a fully powered Super Metroid Samus.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> What's Samus' accepted durability level? The Plasma Beam is stated to be enough to pierce the armor of a fully powered Super Metroid Samus.



Which doesn't really tell me much if I don't know how quantifiable the damage is.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

It's fairly easy to know Samus estimate.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Alright then, shoot. What's her best? And proof would need to be provided please. Kinda hurts the debate if none are provided.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

I have a Metroid respect thread


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

But okay, let's tackle this:

Pre M1--before she changes to the stronger suit in Zero Mission--Samus can take a cliff busting/space ship destroying blast unharmed. This is her in Varia Suit.

Again, in her pre M1 days, she can take the Omega Cannon without going splat. It's agreed to be something like a tactical nuke.

Gravity suit is unquestionable more durable (I think they even give a number to the reduction of damage, but I'm not looking that up)

Jump to M3 when Samus takes a Hyper Beam without going splat (she can take two before her reserves are gone). Hyper Beam, by evidence, is leagues stronger than her Power Bomb--which is confirmed to be a tactical nuke in MM. 

UAM1 Suit Samus craps on that durability (by evident that Omega Metroid swiping at the Samus that took that Hyper Beam rendered her completely out of her reserves, but in UAM1, the same swipe only takes out 2 Es MAX)


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> I have a Metroid respect thread



*checks respect thread*

（　?_ゝ`）
ಠ_ಠ

...

You realize like 9/10 of those videos and stuff were gameplay, right? And the and the only things useful were either data and the manga scans.

Also some (most actually) videos been deleted and needs some serious, and I mean serious updating. It's so behind on info.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

What were gameplay sir? If your gonna say that, point them out.

I have no control on vids, so that much I don't care about.


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## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

Most of samus's weapons go into the terawatts and she can withstand 700+g's without her suit.
Honestly Megaman goes better with Samus than the weakling Masterchief.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

Correction: 800+ G


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Dec 12, 2010)

Purpledrank said:


> Most of samus's weapons go into the terawatts and she can withstand 700+g's without her suit.
> Honestly Megaman goes better with Samus than the weakling Masterchief.



agreed (have you dealt with Halo wankers? lol)


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> What were gameplay sir? If your gonna say that, point them out.
> 
> I have no control on vids, so that much I don't care about.




*Spoiler*: __ 




Morph Ball
Link removed 

The water is acidic to Samus in Power suit
Link removed

Flaahgra
Link removed

Visor can detect danger occurring in other regions
Link removed 

Sheegoth and Wave Beam
Link removed

The atmosphere of Dark Aether
Link removed 

The Warrior Ing
Link removed 

Jump Guardian; an Ing variant
Link removed 

A-Voq, a sentient like U-mos
Link removed

Hunter Ing
Link removed 




I'll put more up.


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## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Correction: 800+ G



800+ is above 700+ so it still fits. 
Still megaman is still a good match with his FTL reactions and hypersonic speed.
Samus wins it through durability and attrition due to more durable tech.
My vote goes to Samus.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 





It's gameplay that she turns into a ball?


> The water is acidic to Samus in Power suit
> Link removed



So it's no acidic? Gameplay or not, that's what is happening.



> Flaahgra
> Link removed



Not a big thing. Just me putting a beast up there. 



> Visor can detect danger occurring in other regions
> Link removed



So her visors don't do that?



> Sheegoth and Wave Beam
> Link removed



Same as Flaa



> The atmosphere of Dark Aether
> Link removed



Not gameplay sir. Dark Aether is that corrosive.


> The Warrior Ing
> Link removed



Same as Flaa



> Jump Guardian; an Ing variant
> Link removed



Same as Flaa



> A-Voq, a sentient like U-mos
> Link removed



Same as Fla... actually now that I think about it, I put those creatures because I like to give info on characters in my respect thread--feat or no.



> Hunter Ing
> Link removed



Same as above--but this one is supplemented by the data entry.

Seems a bit nitpicking. Which takes nothing from her durability correlation and/or feats.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 




Boost Guardian that acquired the morph ball tech
Link removed 

Spider Ball 
Link removed (MII)

In this vid: Adam Com notes that the Security Robot has gotten stronger (prior, it was not infected by an X), Samus diffusion missiles, the wave beam, which passes solid objects and the SA-X run rampant on a lab secretly holding Metroid experiments
Link removed

Super Missiles bounce off them in ZM
Link removed (9:42)

Alpha Metroid
Link removed (1:50)




There's still more.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 12, 2010)

Abusing the game mechanics argument won't let Megaman beat Samus


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

Likely the same nitpick from before. I already gave what you asked in durability.

Videes/images are rather easy to get if I need to provide that.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

> So it's no acidic? Gameplay or not, that's what is happening.



Doesn't show quantifiable strength of the acid or how damaging it does. It's just the dangerous acid trap you see in other games. Lack of cutscene damage hurts the proof.



> Not a big thing. Just me putting a beast up there.



Kind of pointless if it doesn't provide how accurately strong her enemies are and they're supposed to be the kind that ordinary soldiers have a hard time defeating, which doesn't really tell me much other than big and vicious.



> So her visors don't do that?



Gameplay trope, would need to see how her visor works in actual scenes and back up proof.



> Same as Flaa



Same response then.



> Same as Fla... actually now that I think about it, I put those creatures because I like to give info on characters in my respect thread--feat or no.



I know about the logs and that's the only thing going for them for now. But lack of concrete feats hurt.



> Same as above--but this one is supplemented by the data entry.
> 
> Seems a bit nitpicking. Which takes nothing from her durability correlation and/or feats.



Actually it makes her weaker with lack of cutscene feats or something concrete if the power of her enemies and weapons full damage effects rendered completely unknown.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> Abusing the game mechanics argument won't let Megaman beat Samus



I have manga scans. Which I provided, and plus the background info of Master X which I yet to provide yet.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Purpledrank said:


> 800+ is above 700+ so it still fits.
> Still megaman is still a good match with his FTL reactions and hypersonic speed.
> *Samus wins it through durability and attrition due to more durable tech.*
> My vote goes to Samus.



The only durability feat I saw that was quantifiable was her surviving being stomped by Kraid physically. But which won't matter if the durability feat with X served more in comparison.



> Likely the same nitpick from before. I already gave what you asked in durability.
> 
> Videes/images are rather easy to get if I need to provide that.



So showing gameplay but the lack of actual cutscene power and hardcore proof that isn't from the manga and the logs is fine? It's making your argument seem weaker and mine stronger now.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Doesn't show quantifiable strength of the acid or how damaging it does. It's just the dangerous acid trap you see in other games. Lack of cutscene damage hurts the proof.



That wasn't the point. At all.

It was to show that its dangerous to that suit. When she switches suits, that danger drops.

Thus showing the difference between the suits protection.



> Kind of pointless if it doesn't provide how accurately strong her enemies are and they're supposed to be the kind that ordinary soldiers have a hard time defeating, which doesn't really tell me much other than big and vicious.



Don't really care about that. Given that all I need is Mother Brain and Omega Metroid to prove anything for Samus.



> Gameplay trope, would need to see how her visor works in actual scenes and back up proof.



Any function she has in gameplay is how her visors work period. Played Prime?




> I know about the logs and that's the only thing going for them for now. But lack of concrete feats hurt.



Okay, and this has what to do with what I just said I place them in the respect thread for?



> Actually it makes her weaker with lack of cutscene feats or something concrete if the power of her enemies and weapons full damage effects rendered completely unknown.



Given that she has... you know.. a manga too?

I see you mentioning the manga for Megaman, but have this glaring issue of remembering Samus has one too.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> The only durability feat I saw that was quantifiable was her surviving being stomped by Kraid physically. But which won't matter if the durability feat with X served more in comparison.



So the Hyper Beam that supersedes her strongest weapon in her arsenal--the power bomb--is not quantifiable?

Then the Omega Metroid raping the power of the Hyper Beam and still be blocked hard by her last suit?

What is quantifiable to you? Someone making a statement about country busting...


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 12, 2010)

Gorea has a pair of semi-quantifiable weapons that fire multi-terawatt electric bursts and freezing blasts near absolute zero, respectively, though I suppose you could argue that Samus beat Gorea without getting hit by either of them.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

Samus is lightspeed. She never gets hit.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

> That wasn't the point. At all.
> 
> It was to show that its dangerous to that suit. When she switches suits. that danger drops.
> 
> Thus showing the difference between the suits protection.



In gameplay, unless she show it done outside gameplay then maybe. Other than that, no. It just shows HP and not whether they drop.



> Don't really care about that. Given that all I need is Mother Brain and Omega Metroid to prove anything for Samus.



That's...a bad way to go about debating. That's seriously screwing your argument.



> Any function she has in gameplay is how her visors work period. Played Prime?



So they have save points outside gameplay? 



> Okay, and this has what to do with what I just said I place them in the respect thread for?



Respect threads supposed to help gauge how strong said character is. If it's from a game, either cutscenes, secondary info (like datalogs in game, word of god and such) and manga/anime feats suffice. Gameplay? No.



> Given that she has... you know.. a manga too?
> 
> I see you mentioning the manga for Megaman, but have this glaring issue of remembering Samus has one too.



I already said the only things useful were either the data or manga. But her manga feats are weak.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> In gameplay, unless she show it done outside gameplay then maybe. Other than that, no. It just shows HP and not whether they drop.



Gameplay and game mechanics do not go hand in hand. What falls into gameplay aren't always deduced to game mechanics.

The functions that happen during Samus' adventures aren't all mechanics. 

Because if you say her whole lava mess is game mechanics, then...



> That's...a bad way to go about debating. That's seriously screwing your argument.



Most arguments end with people mentioning high ends. 

What would be the purpose of mentioning Samus' low end in a fight?



> So they have save points outside gameplay?



They have people who have common sense outside them 



> Respect threads supposed to help gauge how strong said character is. If it's from a game, either cutscenes, secondary info (like datalogs in game, word of god and such) and manga/anime feats suffice. Gameplay? No.



Good thing I decided to make it more than just a feats thing. You know, since I put other trivia like timeline and history in there.

That a feat, huh?


> I already said the only things useful were either the data or manga. But her manga feats are weak.



And her manga feats came before M1. Follow along.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> So the Hyper Beam that supersedes her strongest weapon in her arsenal--the power bomb--is not quantifiable?
> 
> Then the Omega Metroid raping the power of the Hyper Beam and still be blocked hard by her last suit?
> 
> *What is quantifiable to you? Someone making a statement about country busting*...



Did you miss me saying "or we can go by feats and he just blows shit up, takes hits, and just fast if you're skeptical?

Unless you want to say robots and A.I's are prone to human error...OK then. 



> But okay, let's tackle this:
> 
> Pre M1--before she changes to the stronger suit in Zero Mission--Samus can take a cliff busting/space ship destroying blast unharmed. This is her in Varia Suit.



Got the video?



> Again, in her pre M1 days, she can take the Omega Cannon without going splat. It's agreed to be something like a tactical nuke.



Same as above.



> Gravity suit is unquestionable more durable (I think they even give a number to the reduction of damage, but I'm not looking that up)



Doesn't tell me much. Gonna have to do something. You're the expert here.



> Jump to M3 when Samus takes a Hyper Beam without going splat *(she can take two before her reserves are gone)*. Hyper Beam, by evidence, is leagues stronger than her Power Bomb--which is confirmed to be a tactical nuke in MM.



I know you didn't just put in gameplay for that? 

And again, above.



> UAM1 Suit Samus craps on that durability (by evident that Omega Metroid swiping at the Samus that took that Hyper Beam rendered her completely out of her reserves, but in UAM1, the same swipe only takes out 2 Es MAX)



How we doing? Again, above.


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## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> *I already said the only things useful were either the data or manga. But her manga feats are weak.*





basch71 said:


> *But her manga feats are weak.*





basch71 said:


> * her manga feats are weak.*





basch71 said:


> *manga feats are weak.*





basch71 said:


> * are weak.*


Oh hell naw.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

He didn't just say that!


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Did you miss me saying "or we can go by feats and he just blows shit up, takes hits, and just fast if you're skeptical?
> 
> Unless you want to say robots and A.I's are prone to human error...OK then.



Given who makes them...



> Got the video?





here.

That was actually Samus who destroyed spaceships. Although someone did say that Ridley clawed one, but I never saw it.



> Same as above.



That's a harder one since no one really has many videos on Prime: Hunters



> Doesn't tell me much. Gonna have to do something. You're the expert here.



I wasn't really trying to tell you much. At the time of this post (why you decided this late after the debate escalated...) I was saying it was easy to get an estimate. Wasn't really going for specifics here.




> I know you didn't just put in gameplay for that?



For one, her tanks aren't gameplay. Her tanks are how long her shield can stay up.

Two, the scene wasn't gameplay. You know, since Samus was void of doing anything but being scripted to take that hit, get saved by the metroid and then WFTpwn Mother.



> And again, above.
> 
> 
> 
> How we doing? Again, above.



You can have one tank, max, whatever. That swipe is going to wtfrape Samus in Gravity. Taking out the tank argument, that's still something NO attack did before that.

Seriously, common sense.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Samus is lightspeed. She never gets hit.



...

In her ship she's FTL...



> Gameplay and game mechanics do not go hand in hand. What falls into gameplay aren't always deduced to game mechanics.
> 
> The functions that happen during Samus' adventures aren't all mechanics.
> 
> Because if you say her whole lava mess is game mechanics, then...



The place could be described as dangerous environment but situations can be completely different if it was shown instead of played. 

Unless she actually ran through super heated spots without protection and her body can actually tank it. For all we know, she could get her equipment before approaching places if actual events occured compared to getting them in gameplay afterwards.



> Most arguments end with people mentioning high ends.
> 
> What would be the purpose of mentioning Samus' low end in a fight?



Her growth in strength is important to know what she dealt with. Even with high end feats (which won't mean much if it's not feasible), if she doesn't show who and what she fought, and the abilities of her enemies, even if she fights the final boss with end series stats, it would cause a disadvantage in situations for example if she fought an alien that can mindrape and this was early in and nobody bothered providing to say anything and show it, it would mean she's weak against various psychics in that regard. Show her lesser fights to better and show how she improves.

How much damage she can deal? How much she can tank? Is she fast? Can she dodge? Is she immune to things? All the little things are important.



> They have people who have common sense outside them



Harr harr 



> Good thing I decided to make it more than just a feats thing. You know, since I put other trivia like timeline and history in there.
> 
> That a feat, huh?



Kind of hard to gauge the power if they're completely unknown and the ideal thing is someone usually get better over time (sometimes weaker). Can't do that if it's unknown.



> And her manga feats came before M1. Follow along.



Of course. Which doesn't say much for later. We need to gauge this thing called consistency.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Purpledrank said:


> Oh hell naw.





> He didn't just say that!



She's supposed to be strong. Show something good. 

Don't complain, do.

I haven't even really explained Master X yet and this is the composite match.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 12, 2010)

Mother Brain and the Omega Metroid are both scripted events, so it's canon that Samus can withstand at least one Hyper Beam/claw swipe even though they cripple her. The Omega Metroid also kills the SA-X in one hit, so you can't call gameplay on the power of it's attacks.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> She's supposed to be strong. Show something good.
> 
> Don't complain, do.
> 
> I haven't even really explained Master X yet and this is the composite match.



Basch, your seriousness in this thread is very icky.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> ...
> 
> In her ship she's FTL...



Lightspeed to FTL. Dat Samus 




> The place could be described as dangerous environment but situations can be completely different if it was shown instead of played.
> 
> Unless she actually ran through super heated spots without protection and her body can actually tank it. For all we know, she could get her equipment before approaching places if actual events occured compared to getting them in gameplay afterwards.



Good thing M: OM stretch this out. 



> Her growth in strength is important to know what she dealt with. Even with high end feats (which won't mean much if it's not feasible), if she doesn't show who and what she fought, and the abilities of her enemies, even if she fights the final boss with end series stats, it would cause a disadvantage in situations for example if she fought an alien that can mindrape and this was early in and nobody bothered providing to say anything and show it, it would mean she's weak against various psychics in that regard. Show her lesser fights to better and show how she improves.



Well in base she's pushing 80 tons so she can only go up 



> How much damage she can deal? How much she can tank? Is she fast? Can she dodge? Is she immune to things? All the little things are important.





> Harr harr







> Kind of hard to gauge the power if they're completely unknown and the ideal thing is someone usually get better over time (sometimes weaker). Can't do that if it's unknown.



It's not that hard when people stop screaming "UNQUANTIFUABRIELRE" 





> Of course. Which doesn't say much for later. We need to gauge this thing called consistency.



And you find inconsistency and come back to me.


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Mother Brain and the Omega Metroid are both scripted events, so it's canon that Samus can withstand at least one Hyper Beam/claw swipe even though they cripple her. The Omega Metroid also kills the SA-X in one hit, so you can't call gameplay on the power of it's attacks.



I forgot about it one shotting the SA-X. That's a good one.


----------



## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Basch, your seriousness in this thread is very icky.



We can't give exact numbers for he strength besides that she runs around in 800g gravity suitless.
Meaning she can lift her own weight of 158,400 pounds at the least.

Lets say we use a ridley feat and use something as comparison to his jaw strength.
Ridley can keep up with ships in his flight mode which is FTL.
Now we recall Samus keeping him from having his jaws crush her.
Lets say he is equal to a crocodiles jaw strength, but 800x.
The pressure of the crocodile's bite is more than 5,000 pounds per square inch.
we use the lowest of 5000.
If his jaw stregth was equal to a crocodile x 800 then his jaw stregth would be 
4,000,000 per square inch and samus kept that jaw from crushing her.
 AT least in theory anyway.


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 12, 2010)

Sense when are cutscene feats all that are applicable? thats bullshit


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> Sense when are cutscene feats all that are applicable? thats bullshit



They aren't the only thing applicable. Logic deducts what is and what isn't.

It's not like Metroid is Contra...

It even works for the Rockman series. If he suddenly got a suit that reduced the damage that a previous suit didn't--logic tells me that suit is stronger/can resist that certain thing better.

I don't need cutscene to spoonfed me everything. I'm quite capable of feeding myself, thank you.



Purpledrank said:


> We can't give exact numbers for he strength besides that she runs around in 800g gravity suitless.
> Meaning she can lift her own weight of 158,400 pounds at the least.
> 
> Lets say we use a ridley feat and use something as comparison to his jaw strength.
> ...



Aren't those ships naturally not going FTL? I'm certain he's faster than even our fastest shuttles, but that'd be too much.


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

You mean when they were going to Samus' original hometown or is this during another time?

Thanks for the link. My network should be able to handle it.


----------



## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> You mean when they were going to Samus' original hometown or is this during another time?
> 
> Thanks for the link. My network should be able to handle it.


During another time.
It may have been a game cut-scene ,but he was keeping up with ship in hyperspace. All I remember though I don't play Metroid fanatically.
Though it really isn't surprising considering all of the weird changes ridley goes through.
Kinasin thinks that reading actual books is nerdier than DBZ manga .


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

Well I heard that from someone else too, so I'm thinking there's some truth to it.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 12, 2010)

I haven't played Metroid Prime 3 or Other M yet, but I don't recall any scene like that in the other games. Ridley is fast enough to achieve escape velocity (Super Metroid) and outrun ships in orbit (Metroid Prime), but as far as I know he's always used a ship for FTL travel.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm lacking MP2/3 and some OM myself. So I can't say where that scene came from either.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 12, 2010)

How the hell can he fly in space anyway?


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 12, 2010)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> How the hell can he fly in space anyway?



He's a giant sentient space dragon who also happens to be a pirate. Kicking logic to the curb is all part of a day's work for him.


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## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

I just chalk it up to evolution.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> I just chalk it up to evolution.


 :/
it really doesn't matter, badass either way.


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## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> I just chalk it up to evolution.



You really should.


He is like this furry white bunny thing at first...


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Dec 12, 2010)

Doesn't Samus move freely in a gravity 800 times greater than that of Earth?


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## Purpledrank (Dec 12, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> Doesn't Samus move freely in a gravity 800 times greater than that of Earth?




You can just go to this link and watch what she does in this gravity.
Kinasin thinks that reading actual books is nerdier than DBZ manga .


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> Given who makes them...



So you're saying Dr. Light, Dr. Wily, and Dr. Cain are idiots? Reaching far a bit. But if I were to even reduce the country level power to use feats, it would make him a town buster since that's what the tower did at the beginning of the chapter and he used it's energy.



> That was actually Samus who destroyed spaceships. Although someone did say that Ridley clawed one, but I never saw it.



Hmm...Not bad. An improvement from the Kraid feat.



> That's a harder one since no one really has many videos on Prime: Hunters



I played Hunters a bit but not far. Lacked a DS and I was playing someone elses (I think it was my cousin's DS).



> I wasn't really trying to tell you much. At the time of this post (why you decided this late after the debate escalated...) I was saying it was easy to get an estimate. Wasn't really going for specifics here.



Specifics help, a lot.



> For one, her tanks aren't gameplay. Her tanks are how long her shield can stay up.
> 
> Two, the scene wasn't gameplay. You know, since Samus was void of doing anything but being scripted to take that hit, get saved by the metroid and then WFTpwn Mother.



You talking about Super Metroid where she took that hit. I'm aware she tanked it officially regardless of her health depleting but since you're saying the laser is equivalent to a nuke, at least show the actual destructive capacity since it helps paint the picture better. Since even though it was a scripted scene, it still didn't show much of actual destructive power.



> You can have one tank, max, whatever. That swipe is going to wtfrape Samus in Gravity. Taking out the tank argument, that's still something NO attack did before that.
> 
> Seriously, common sense.



It will help if the scene was shown since the Omega Metroid wasn't listed in the Respect Thread and I'm assuming this is MP3.



> Mother Brain and the Omega Metroid are both scripted events, so it's canon that Samus can withstand at least one Hyper Beam/claw swipe even though they cripple her. The Omega Metroid also kills the SA-X in one hit, so you can't call gameplay on the power of it's attacks.



So it's M: Fusion then.



> Basch, your seriousness in this thread is very icky.



I can't debate seriously now? Beats not asking questions and calling out on information and let things slip by.



> Lightspeed to FTL. Dat Samus



The ship has nice speed, I give it that. If it wasn't the fact that the field is set inside a 2 mile wide ship, she would have a better advantage, somewhat (still haven't explained Master X yet).



> Good thing M: OM stretch this out.



Considering it's on the Wii and has more cutscenes and a lot more detailed, it's a plus.



> Well in base she's pushing 80 tons so she can only go up



Zero Suit or regular Power Suit?



> It's not that hard when people stop screaming "UNQUANTIFUABRIELRE"
> 
> And you find inconsistency and come back to me.



Burden of the proof is on you.



> They aren't the only thing applicable. Logic deducts what is and what isn't.
> 
> It's not like Metroid is Contra...
> 
> ...



Ultimate Armor is the best one in the series and X wore it in X5 when you play as Zero and fight him. X even uses Soul Body (a special he learns in X4) in battle. However it's still gameplay and doesn't actually explain anything, unless you actually believe he has Soulfucking power, time stop, and artificial black holes at his disposal.


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> It will help if the scene was shown since the Omega Metroid wasn't listed in the Respect Thread and I'm assuming this is MP3.



one

This is the scene. Even with a full twenty energy tanks that swipe will drop Samus to 1 HP and leave her crippled while the SA-X steps in. That power level is supported since the SA-X drops dead with a single hit immediately afterwords. Apparently the Federation was feeding this Omega some serious steroids, since killing the SA-X with one swipe of it's claws makes it the strongest boss in the series with the possible exception of Other M's Metroid Queen.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> one
> 
> This is the scene. Even with a full twenty energy tanks that swipe will drop Samus to 1 HP and leave her crippled while the SA-X steps in. That power level is supported since the SA-X drops dead with a single hit immediately afterwords. Apparently the Federation was feeding this Omega some serious steroids, since killing the SA-X with one swipe of it's claws makes it the strongest boss in the series with the possible exception of Other M's Metroid Queen.



This kinda make things difficult to quantify since it doesn't really show how physically strong OM is since due to it's limitations(such as gameplay -> scripted scene trope) other than one shotting SA-X (which doesn't say much either since we need to know how much it can tank, like actual physical damage like can it take city level destruction and such for example). In series it would be considered strong but doesn't seem much here.


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> So you're saying Dr. Light, Dr. Wily, and Dr. Cain are idiots? Reaching far a bit. But if I were to even reduce the country level power to use feats, it would make him a town buster since that's what the tower did at the beginning of the chapter and he used it's energy.



Idiot was in my post? Okay.

But did Rock destroy a town? See how I can do that too?



> Specifics help, a lot.



But was not my goal. That was what I was getting at.

Let me help further--I had no desire to debate this topic. All I said is Samus' durability can be estimated. 

From my understanding, an estimate isn't specific--else it wouldn't be 'rough'



> You talking about Super Metroid where she took that hit. I'm aware she tanked it officially regardless of her health depleting but since you're saying the laser is equivalent to a nuke, at least show the actual destructive capacity since it helps paint the picture better. Since even though it was a scripted scene, it still didn't show much of actual destructive power.



Tactical nuke aka compact nuclear device. Samus power bomb is one. 

What are you looking for? Widespread destruction? In M: OM, they made it apparent that ships are fortified for stuff like that--although common material can still be pulverized by it.

You don't see destruction from the power bomb for this very reason. The game plays itself well.



> It will help if the scene was shown since the Omega Metroid wasn't listed in the Respect Thread and I'm assuming this is MP3.



Video has been removed.




> I can't debate seriously now? Beats not asking questions and calling out on information and let things slip by.



Yes you can. But don't forget to tongue and cheek the blatant comical responses *if* you're going to respond to them.

Responding serious to them makes you look silly.



> The ship has nice speed, I give it that. If it wasn't the fact that the field is set inside a 2 mile wide ship, she would have a better advantage, somewhat (still haven't explained Master X yet).



I was joking about the whole lightspeed thing. I thought the "Samus *never* gets hit" would have given that away.



> Considering it's on the Wii and has more cutscenes and a lot more detailed, it's a plus.



Which makes me wonder why so asinine about cutscene for a 2D game on lesser powerful platforms.



> Zero Suit or regular Power Suit?



No suit.



> Burden of the proof is on you.



To prove what? That she's not consistent? Seems dumb.



basch71 said:


> This kinda make things difficult to quantify since it doesn't really show how physically strong OM is since due to it's limitations(such as gameplay -> scripted scene trope) other than one shotting SA-X (which doesn't say much either since we need to know how much it can tank, like actual physical damage like can it take city level destruction and such for example). In series it would be considered strong but doesn't seem much here.



I wanna respond to this seriously, but it's just becoming quite asinine (now it's a troupe)

Let's say that Samus durability is wall level if that makes it okay with you.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> This kinda make things difficult to quantify since it doesn't really show how physically strong OM is since due to it's limitations(such as gameplay -> scripted scene trope) other than one shotting SA-X (which doesn't say much either since we need to know how much it can tank, like actual physical damage like can it take city level destruction and such for example). In series it would be considered strong but doesn't seem much here.



Well, in the manga Samus completely no sells Ridley's cliff busting mouth blast with only her Varia Suit. The SA-X has the Varia Suit and presumably Gravity Suit as well, so it seems unlikely that anything less than building busting power would even put a dent in it. The Plasma Beam and Screw Attack are the only things in Samus' arsenal capable of damaging it at all, meaning it can stroll right through a Power Bomb blast without even getting singed. Powerscaling suggests that the mutated Omega either has absurd physical strength, claws capable of cutting through just about any substance in Metroid's known universe, or some combination of the two.


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## Plague (Dec 12, 2010)

Doesn't the Dark beam create a mini black hole? And the Annialator Beam is speed of sound. Can Samus stack all that together with the quick charge upgrades? This is composite Samus after all.


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## Plague (Dec 12, 2010)

Whats X's durability anyway? Ya'll keep talking about Samus's. I haven't noticed anything that great.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

> But did Rock destroy a town? See how I can do that too?



Want me to show the tower destroying a town and Rock shoot back the same energy at Boomer with more strength behind it? See I can do it too.


*Spoiler*: __ 




one
one
one
one
one

A super juiced Buster Shot who is fueled by a voltage line (which Kuwanger states that has enough power blow up a country) blows up the upper half of the tower, as well as tanks his own attack

one
one
one
one
one
one
one






> But was not my goal. That was what I was getting at.
> 
> Let me help further--I had no desire to debate this topic. All I said is Samus' durability can be estimated.
> 
> From my understanding, an estimate isn't specific--else it wouldn't be 'rough'



I wasn't planning on debating as well, but seems I'm like the only one available who knows Megaman, so.... Yeah....



> Tactical nuke aka compact nuclear device. Samus power bomb is one.
> 
> What are you looking for? Widespread destruction? In M: OM, they made it apparent that ships are fortified for stuff like that--although common material can still be pulverized by it.
> 
> You don't see destruction from the power bomb for this very reason. The game plays itself well.



Cuz you're stating it has power compared to one behind it, kinda like the whole X thing you're skeptical about, right? 



> Yes you can. But don't forget to tongue and cheek the blatant comical responses if you're going to respond to them.
> 
> Responding serious to them makes you look silly.



If I seem aggressive, that's just my debating style. I will try to have someone give up to win an argument (without trying to resort to call names of course).



> I was joking about the whole lightspeed thing. I thought the "Samus never gets hit" would have given that away.



I'm aware, still exploitable however. Again, aggressive debating.



> Which makes me wonder why so asinine about cutscene for a 2D game on lesser powerful platforms.



If a lesser console (or handheld) can show those kinds of scenes without resorting to gameplay -> scripted events tropes (some games can), then fine. But saying so and so person can take hits from weapon A but the attack was done in a gameplay -> scripted events scene without first hand knowledge of the gravity of the power behind the attack, it just looks like normal HP damage and survive via plot says so.



> No suit.



Alright then.



> To prove what? That she's not consistent? Seems dumb.



To prove that she is consistent with her power even with her usual stick to default with each new game set up.

Did her previous strength from the past carry on to the next story, or did any new strength from like a prequel retconned it and made her stronger than before and that were her future incarnations weaker?



> I wanna respond to this seriously, but it's just becoming quite asinine (now it's a troupe)



Video game trope, it's common place to find such things. Like Grandia 2 for example and dealing with impossible to win fights. Such as the fight between Millenia and Ryudo which was done in gameplay but it was a scripted fight and she canonly beats him with Zap!, which all has done was paralyze him. The actual damage of Zap! wasn't shown other than knocking down HP and paralysis. Zap!'s damage is completely unknown and unquantifiable. Or the fight with Melfice and he canonly beats Ryudo with Wailing Slash. So is Melfice actually fast enough to create multiple after images that all attack? Dunno, he never uses it outside combat.



> Let's say that Samus durability is wall level if that makes it okay with you.



If you can't actually figure out how much it can do, then it's useless info.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Well, in the manga Samus completely no sells Ridley's cliff busting mouth blast with only her Varia Suit. The SA-X has the Varia Suit and presumably Gravity Suit as well, so it seems unlikely that anything less than building busting power would even put a dent in it. The Plasma Beam and Screw Attack are the only things in Samus' arsenal capable of damaging it at all, meaning it can stroll right through a Power Bomb blast without even getting singed. Powerscaling suggests that the mutated Omega either has absurd physical strength, claws capable of cutting through just about any substance in Metroid's known universe, or some combination of the two.



That would be the only thing you can do. And other than manga X who most likely has enough power to put her down, Master X is in another league of his own. Would most likely mindrape her if he's equipped with Mother Elf and shit.



> Whats X's durability anyway? Ya'll keep talking about Samus's. I haven't noticed anything that great.





> His Armor Part is extremely durable
> 
> one
> one
> ...


----------



## Plague (Dec 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> That would be the only thing you can do. And other than manga X who most likely has enough power to put her down, Master X is in another league of his own. Would most likely mindrape her if he's equipped with Mother Elf and shit.



I think a Power bomb outta do the trick.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> I think a Power bomb outta do the trick.



Considering the mind control ability and such can reach all over the globe? She'd be done in a heart beat and how would she hurt him if he has Cyber Elf Master X's intangibility?


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## Purpledrank (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Considering the mind control ability and such can reach all over the globe? She'd be done in a heart beat and how would she hurt him if he has Cyber Elf Master X's intangibility?



Airman and woodman appear and beat them both


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Purpledrank said:


> Airman and woodman appear and beat them both



Flashman stage is a damn nightmare.


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## Purpledrank (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Flashman stage is a damn nightmare.


This stage is the worst stage ever 

*Spoiler*: __ 



Warning before you watch. This will ruin your childhood.
*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]8YdmYI4ghxw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Purpledrank said:


> This stage is the worst stage ever
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


----------



## Purpledrank (Dec 13, 2010)

I am to afraid to even look at the male one or post it.
So do you have any manga scans of said X's feats to contribute?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Purpledrank said:


> I am to afraid to even look at the male one or post it.
> So do you have any manga scans of said X's feats to contribute?



Which one? Manga X? I already posted the Respect thread earlier. Master X? This was info from the Mega Man Zero: Complete Works since it fills in the blanks the events between the X series and the first MMZ game. Some things like Master X in his Cyber Elf form (just remember that the intangibility is from the fact that they're made of energy, are programs, and ethereal, with the only exception being Crea and Prea who're the only Cyber Elves that fight and can get hurt) is shown at the end of MMZ1 after beating Copy X. And the mind control ability was shown besides during the Elf Wars was also in MMZ3. I'll try to find the videos if I can.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eMdBvRZczg[/YOUTUBE]

X shows himself

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpbk04IIHuA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

X again

6:15-7:10
7:28-9:03

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBEYvIkIYs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Weil and Omega w/ the power of the Dark Elf/Mother Elf starts controlling Reploids AND humans (the Resistance Base soldiers and people are human to clarify since they DO spill blood back in the first game at the intro when some soldiers were killed) alike all across the world. Master X comes in and disables the effect of the planetary mind control throughout the entire base.

3:05-6:50


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## azngamer87 (Dec 13, 2010)

Time stop. Hydouken. Game set match.


----------



## Purpledrank (Dec 13, 2010)

azngamer87 said:


> Time stop. Hydouken. Game set match.



Don't think Easter eggs and game mechanics count.


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Considering the mind control ability and such can reach all over the globe? She'd be done in a heart beat and how would she hurt him if he has Cyber Elf Master X's intangibility?



Didn't Samus have a visor that could help her damage intangeble enemies?Plus, Samus has shown resistance to possesion as seen in MP2.  X is tough, but Sigma blew him and Zero to pieces. Limitless potential my ass!

Samus (especially a composite one) has a lot of health. X, even composite doesn't. He has about 9-10 Energy Tanks worth.

Where as Samus has about 50 or so. She'd simply outlast him. All she has to do is scan him, use weakness, and attack. A charged shot isn't going to kill Samus. 

One of hers might kill X though. A Darkburst, Plasma, Sonic Boom.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

> Didn't Samus have a visor that could help her damage intangeble enemies?



Has it shown to work in cutscenes?



> Plus, Samus has shown resistance to possesion as seen in MP2.



She can resist planetary mind control? Cuz Mother Elf has that power.



> X is tough, but Sigma blew him and Zero to pieces. Limitless potential my ass!



You know that Sigma is just as strong as they are and gets stronger after every resurrection and that with prep is a planetary threat? Plus X ability of growth, he's much MUCH stronger than his X1 incarnation and every game after hand.



> Samus (especially a composite one) has a lot of health. X, even composite doesn't. He has about 9-10 Energy Tanks worth.



Gameplay, and won't matter much if X can just blast her to oblivion or control her and have her kill herself.



> One of hers might kill X though. A Darkburst, Plasma, Sonic Boom.



A) He's intangible as a Cyber Elf.

B ) How strong is it and can it get past X's durability? Or he can just dodge it.


----------



## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> > Has it shown to work in cutscenes?
> 
> 
> Read about the "Dark" visor and "Echoe" visor. Then theres the "X-ray" visor
> ...


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> Read about the "Dark" visor and "Echoe" visor. Then theres the "X-ray" visor



...

A lot of this stuff is gameplay based and none of them even mention about intangible interaction.



> Well, Emperor Ing was controlling an alternate "Dark" planet in another dimensions Ing horde, and was controlling 50% of the Light world. But even after Samus went to the Dark world, she was unaffected by any form of mind control. And that was with the varia suit! Composite is just over kill!



That's not a feat, that saying she just went to a place after hand. She would actually have to be targeted. 



> Blast her into oblivion? Samus can dodge better than X can, at least, in the cut scenes when shes fighting Dark Samus it looks like it. Even if she does get hit, Composite will survive with all those energy tanks.





> X without any armor is already a bullet timer
> 
> Link removed
> 
> ...



And from what I'm hearing, Power Bombs are confirmed nukes as of Other M. She offs herself with a city busting nuke.



> The Dark Beam was strong enough to create a mini black hole on contact. It also disintegrates matter. Combined with the Sonic Boom, as soon as Samus releases it, the other side of the screen "caves in" INSTANTLY. his durabiltity doesnt matter.
> 
> The Screw Attack (lol) makes her invulnerable and she can fly. So even if X fires his lazor, Samus can just "screw" him over.



Have these attacks been quantifiable like in cutscenese or in manga scans, not counting gameplay?

Cuz that Screw Attack invulnerability mumbo jumbo sounds like a no limits falacy.

And again, how are these attacks are going to get past his intangibility?


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> And from what I'm hearing, Power Bombs are confirmed nukes as of Other M. She offs herself with a city busting nuke.



Except Power Bombs don't hurt Samus, in gameplay or otherwise.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Except Power Bombs don't hurt Samus, in gameplay or otherwise.



I know gameplay but got proof on the otherwise?


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> I know gameplay but got proof on the otherwise?



The SA-X escaped the research station's quarantine bay with a Power Bomb. That's basically the equivalent of locking yourself in a closet and setting off a grenade. Adam forbids Samus from attempting to fight the SA-X for most of Fusion because she has no way of damaging it. This doesn't change when she acquires Power Bombs.


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## Keollyn (Dec 13, 2010)

The SA-X gave me such a headache. I mean, I lay a power bomb, nothing. It shoots a beam, I die.

WTF!


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> The SA-X escaped the research station's quarantine bay with a Power Bomb. That's basically the equivalent of locking yourself in a closet and setting off a grenade. Adam forbids Samus from attempting to fight the SA-X for most of Fusion because she has no way of damaging it. This doesn't change when she acquires Power Bombs.



What are the chances of surviving multiple power bomb spam?



> The SA-X gave me such a headache. I mean, I lay a power bomb, nothing. It shoots a beam, I die.
> 
> WTF!



Good lord. I started Fusion like a while ago and neglected to finish it but that thing is that difficult? And my ass is playing with a keyboard.

Which reminds me, I gotta finish Super Metroid.


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 13, 2010)

The SA-X is like Samus on roids. It doesn't hurt that you don't get crap to beat it until like the very end.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> What are the chances of surviving multiple power bomb spam?



Considering Power Bombs appear to do absolutely nothing? Very high, if not 100%. Samus can carry dozens, but that wouldn't stop the SA-X from raping her at basically any point in the game.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2010)

Megaman from the X5 game had time stop, how will Samus beat that?


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## Soledad Eterna (Dec 13, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Megaman from the X5 game had time stop, how will Samus beat that?


Shooting all her arsenal before he even thinks of time stopping.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> Shooting all her arsenal before he even thinks of time stopping.



You are putting it as it would be easy as if Samus could 1 shot megaman which wont happen without time stop megaman would be hell to fight.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

veget0010 said:


> Shooting all her arsenal before he even thinks of time stopping.



She won't be able to hit him. He's literally a robot ghost (seems like dead Reploids become Cyber Elves, even one of the characters from ZX became one after passing.) by Zero series.


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## zenieth (Dec 13, 2010)

SA-X was one of my favorite fights. Damned Metroid Samus X thing.


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

Samus kills Chozo ghosts all the time. (MP1)Plus, she can just hack Megaman with the "Hacker Mode" visor. Which will disrupt all his weapons, before ending him with a Darkburst.

If he stops time, all he can do is wail on her with his X buster, whch won't do sht.

Samus wins.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> Samus kills Chozo ghosts all the time. (MP1)Plus, she can just hack Megaman with the "Hacker Mode" visor. Which will disrupt all his weapons, before ending him with a Darkburst.
> 
> If he stops time, all he can do is wail on her with his X buster, whch won't do sht.
> 
> Samus wins.



Before or after he controls her mind and make her useless?


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Before or after he controls her mind and make her useless?



We've already proven Samus couldn't be possessed. Bringing up old arguments huh? Also, I've proven samus can erase/screw up his abilities with the Hack Visor from a distance.

I accept your concession.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 13, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> We've already proven Samus couldn't be possessed.



Not really. The Ing couldn't possess Samus because of the Energy Transfer Module's light powered core. That doesn't mean she can resist any attempt at possession.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> *We've already proven Samus couldn't be possessed. Bringing up old arguments huh? Also, I've proven samus can erase/screw up his abilities with the Hack Visor from a distance.
> 
> I accept your concession.*



You haven't proved jack and I already debunked those earlier.

Link removed

Just going around in circles and using gameplay used things to be usable which haven't been used officially in a scene makes the argument pointless.

And saying she could resist mindrape when she was never even targeted and only entered a place after it was taken control and claiming it's a feat is completely false.

And if you keep saying she can, then she would have no problem dealing with someone like say, Luke Skywalker for example or Prof. Xavier.

I mean, she totally can resist planetary mindrape, right?


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2010)

The thread should have ended with Megaman having time stop, what will Samus do against that?


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> You haven't proved jack and I already debunked those earlier.
> 
> Link removed
> 
> ...





Its not like you've proven X would survive a Darkburst, or screw attack. Your only excuse is "gameplay" which is stupid, and your only excuse.

What proof do you have that X can survive? The intangebility argument is trumped by the fact that Samus kills Chozo ghosts all the time in MP1. 

Other than becoming a ghost (which he'll get to do all the time once Samus is through with him.) X's durability is easily over come by the matter disnetegratng dark beam.

No, she hasn't used it in a cut scene, but I only see that as your excuse/concession.


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> The thread should have ended with Megaman having time stop, what will Samus do against that?



It only owkrs on 1 particular boss. Even if he does, he'll fun out of energy before Composite Samus's 60 energy tanks give out seeing as though he can only attack with the X buster when Time is stopped. And that isn't going to do shit.


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## Keollyn (Dec 13, 2010)

Samus can allow or disallow telepathy via her suit. 

Don't care about the level, just mentioning that it is a capability of hers.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 13, 2010)

In addition, I'd argue that Mother Brain and Gorea not even attempting mind rape when she was killing them is evidence for her suit having substantial telepathic resistance. Mother Brain in particular has no excuse since she was mind controlling other creatures on Zebes and probably had detailed statistics on the suit stored in her memory somewhere.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> It only owkrs on 1 particular boss. Even if he does, he'll fun out of energy before Composite Samus's 60 energy tanks give out seeing as though he can only attack with the X buster when Time is stopped. And that isn't going to do shit.



You obviously havent played while using the Ultimate Armor. Nova Strike is the most powerful attack in Megamanverse (well playable attack) and guess what? It still works while time is stopped.


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> You obviously havent played while using the Ultimate Armor.



Even then! The crash attack is only twice the power of a charged shot. I'll give him 10 eneergy tanks worth hits (and thats being generous) before he runs out of energy and Samus retaliates by "Screwing" him over with the screw attack. Or blasting the Darkburst matter destroyer at him. 

X's HP ain't no where near as high.

But wait theres more! The Time Stop doesn't even work on bosses except Skiver! and only because its his weakness!


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

> Its not like you've proven X would survive a Darkburst, or screw attack. Your only excuse is "gameplay" which is stupid, and your only excuse.



Burden of the proof is on you.



> What proof do you have that X can survive? The intangebility argument is trumped by the fact that Samus kills Chozo ghosts all the time in MP1.



Have they shown true intangibility? And her attacks worked on someone like this?

And not just gameplay. Since as a Cyber Elf, X is made of energy and is a program and ethereal. He's practically data at this point.



> Other than becoming a ghost (which he'll get to do all the time once Samus is through with him.) X's durability is easily over come by the matter disnetegratng dark beam.



Burden of the proof is on you on the Dark Beam's destructive capability.



> No, she hasn't used it in a cut scene, but I only see that as your excuse/concession.



Then it's useless.

Anymore use of gameplay used abilities that haven't been quantified and I'll acknowledge your concession.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 13, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> Even then! The crash attack is only twice the power of a charged shot. I'll give him 10 eneergy tanks worth hits (and thats being generous) before he runs out of energy and Samus retaliates by "Screwing" him over with the screw attack. Or blasting the Darkburst matter destroyer at him.
> 
> X's HP ain't no where near as high.
> 
> But wait theres more! The Time Stop doesn't even work on bosses except Skiver! and only because its his weakness!



In standard OBD rules it is assumed all attacks will work, take for example Goku when he is beign used, Spirit Bomb only works on evil beigns but in standard OBD rules it is taken that Spirit Bomb works on the foe he is facing regardless who it is.

About X's HP you also forgot the recovery tanks. And what are you talking about Nova Strike? NV is the most destructive attack against bosses in megamanverse is the most devastating attack, I mean play any boss that doesnt have spears in the level walls and it is a walk on the park with Nova Strike.


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> > And not just gameplay. Since as a Cyber Elf, X is made of energy and is a program and ethereal. He's practically data at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just awcknowledged yours. plz GTFO.


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> In standard OBD rules it is assumed all attacks will work, take for example Goku when he is beign used, Spirit Bomb only works on evil beigns but in standard OBD rules it is taken that Spirit Bomb works on the foe he is facing regardless who it is.
> 
> About X's HP you also forgot the recovery tanks. And what are you talking about Nova Strike? NV is the most destructive attack against bosses in megamanverse is the most devastating attack, I mean play any boss that doesnt have spears in the level walls and it is a walk on the park with Nova Strike.



In this fight, I did not allow recovery items of any kind. Yes Nova Strike is strong, but Samus can survive 100 of those and still win. She simply has too much health, and her Gravity suit cuts damage in half (or more than that.)

EDIT: i was wrong the Gravity suit reduces damage to 1/4~!


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Have they shown true intangibility? And her attacks worked on someone like this?
> 
> And not just gameplay. Since as a Cyber Elf, X is made of energy and is a program and ethereal. He's practically data at this point.





> Morphology: Chozo Ghost
> Spectral entity. Bioelectric field invulnerable to natural energies.
> 
> As these entities phase in and out of existence, the only reliable way to track them accurately is with x-ray scanning. This partially phased nature makes them invulnerable to natural energy types, such as fire, ice, and electricity. Their aggressive and erratic behavior is most likely due to the corrupting effects of Phazon in the Tallon IV environment. They appear to be drawn to Chozo religious sites, where they wreak havoc upon anything that dares enter the area.



Their logbook entry, for whatever it's worth.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> I just awcknowledged yours. plz GTFO.



Clearly you're at a loss here and just resort to "no u". If you can't abide by the rules of OBD on the use of gameplay mechanics.



Then you're just admitting defeat.

Now please, stop while you're ahead before you make a fool of yourself.



> In this fight, I did not allow recovery items of any kind. Yes Nova Strike is strong, but Samus can survive 100 of those and still win. She simply has too much health, and her Gravity suit cuts damage in half (or more than that.)



Why the frig is anyone talking about game mechanics in a debate?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Their logbook entry, for whatever it's worth.



Are they story bosses (bosses that actually matter and not filler bosses) or are they fodder? Cuz if they're fodder...


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## Keollyn (Dec 13, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Their logbook entry, for whatever it's worth.



I never did understand Chozo Gost. They aren't the same as the Chozo that disappeared from the universe? Or are these the one that died from the great disaster?


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Are they story bosses (bosses that actually matter and not filler bosses) or are they fodder? Cuz if they're fodder...



They're treated as mini-bosses for the most part, but they have relevance to the story since they open a portal to the Impact Crater after Ridley destroys the normal entrance. They're mentioned in a Space Pirate log as well:



> There have been numerous incidents involving spectral entities at Chozo Ruins sites. Several personnel have been assaulted by these Chozo Ghosts; few have survived. Survivors speak of swift attacks from nowhere, brief sightings of the enemy, then nothing, only to be followed by another attack. Science Team believes these attacks are in response to our efforts to recover Chozo relics and Artifacts. Somehow, these entities are able to interact with the physical world, and it appears they wish to keep their Artifacts to themselves. We will make them pay for such arrogance, for even ghosts can be destroyed.



They get a passing mention or two in Chozo lore as well.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 13, 2010)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> They're treated as mini-bosses for the most part, but they have relevance to the story since they open a portal to the Impact Crater after Ridley destroys the normal entrance. They're mentioned in a Space Pirate log as well:
> 
> 
> 
> They get a passing mention or two in Chozo lore as well.



Hmm...alright then, fine. Although she still has mindrape to worry about which can be done in a heartbeat.


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## Plague (Dec 13, 2010)

basch71 said:


> > Clearly you're at a loss here and just resort to "no u". If you can't abide by the rules of OBD on the use of gameplay mechanics.
> >
> > Link removed
> >
> ...


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