# Gohan VS Hulk



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 17, 2009)

SSJ Gohan vs WWHulk

Gohan can power up to Mystic if needed.

WWHulks power is limitless so this will be a great battle and I think Gohan will definitely need to go Mystic to actually defeat him. Even at mystic I think it would be a tough fight but the main concept between this is that Gohan can fly and Hulk cant. In the end I think Gohan will defeat Hulk.

What are your thoughts? DBZ anime and manga allowed. No flamers or dbz bashers allowed, if your gonna come to bash or talk shit then gtfo


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## shit (Nov 17, 2009)

Gohan can fly but Hulk can jump into the stratosphere. Gohan needs to power up to Mystic at lightspeed to have a chance, IMO.


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## Hellspawn28 (Nov 17, 2009)

I thought Hulk or Superman vs. DBZ threads where banned. Well Gohan has good speed advantage but WWH has better pystical power since a punch or two from WWH should ko Gohan. Can go either way but I think WWH might pull it off.


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## Soledad Eterna (Nov 17, 2009)

what if gohan throws a ki charge attack? i mean a very powerful charged ki attack, which he could throw at ftl


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## Raigen (Nov 17, 2009)

Gohan can spam chi attacks, any one of which could destroy Hulk. Gohan has an absolutely ludicrous speed advantage. Hulk can't touch him, much less react to him. It's a stomp.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2009)

Other than straight up busting the planet i don't think Gohan has anything that could actually take out WWHulk.

On the flip side though Hulk has a microscopically low chance of touching Gohan at all.

Draw? Or would gohan eventually get exhausted and lose?


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 17, 2009)

The fucking Hulk grabs Gohan's chi attacks and flings them back at him at FTL speeds. Hulk literally has every advantage short of flight and energy blasts here.


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## Raigen (Nov 17, 2009)

Don't be ridiculous. Gohan takes one shot and Hulk doesn't have a head anymore.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Don't be ridiculous. Gohan takes one shot and Hulk doesn't have a head anymore.



Healing factor. He's healed from a skeletal state before, pretty quickly too.

Also, keep in mind The hulk tanks gamma blasts and multiple nukes pretty regularly.

I think that gohan could knock out the hulk by rapid firing his strongest ki blasts (basically the most powerful ones he can do without planet busting), but he'd have to go mystic and exhaust a lot of energy.

Gohan isn't killing the hulk though.


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## Soledad Eterna (Nov 17, 2009)

grab the hulk then send him to the sun with a ki attack


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## Raigen (Nov 17, 2009)

DBZ'ers are notorious for letting out attacks that can harm/kill planet-tankers without destroying the planet. They control the destructive range of their attacks constantly. And I've yet to see Hulk survive without a head. Also his return from skeleton was aided, not something he did on his own from what I've heard. And really, Gohan can reduce him to particles if he wants to.


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 17, 2009)

veget0010 said:


> grab the hulk then send him to the sun with a ki attack


Hulk can grab energy like it was solid matter. He flings the chi attack back at Gohan.


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## Raigen (Nov 17, 2009)

ski, seriously, stop talking.


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 17, 2009)

Raigen said:


> ski, seriously, stop talking.


Oh the irony.


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## Raigen (Nov 17, 2009)

Quit your trolling. You have nothing to add. Hulk fails. It's this simple. Dismissed.


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 17, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Quit your trolling. You have nothing to add. Hulk fails. It's this simple. Dismissed.


I haven't said a single thing that was false yet.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2009)

veget0010 said:


> grab the hulk then send him to the sun with a ki attack



This seems like a bad idea. If gohan grabs the hulk that means the hulk could potentially grab him...which would be very bad for gohan.



Raigen said:


> DBZ'ers are notorious for letting out attacks that can harm/kill planet-tankers without destroying the planet. They control the destructive range of their attacks constantly. And I've yet to see Hulk survive without a head. Also his return from skeleton was aided, not something he did on his own from what I've heard. And really, Gohan can reduce him to particles if he wants to.



Yea, i'll give you that. It'd take a hell of a blast though.


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## Raigen (Nov 17, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpYIyTqaJig[/YOUTUBE]


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 17, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> Hulk can grab energy like it was solid matter. He flings the chi attack back at Gohan.



How can Hulk grab energy like its solid matter? And he wont be able to grab 100 ki waves going ftl. It doesnt matter how much he throws back, Gohan is just way to fast for him, hulk cant touch him. Just watch the video raigen put up, and thats kid gohan imagine mystic.

@Windwaker

He doesnt need to grab Hulk like that, he could just kick him up in the air and then send the energy wave. 

How durable do you think Gohan is against Hulks punches? Though his angrier ones may leave a mark, at the first stages he wont really be doing any damage.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 17, 2009)

hulk breathes in space

hulk has gotten so pissed off...that he's thunder clapped out entire time streams

hulks way more durablre and stronger

gohan blitzes him shoots him

he gets furious

gohan dies

you and raigen are seriously bordering on intentionally starting flame baiting topics..


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## Soledad Eterna (Nov 17, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> This seems like a bad idea. If gohan grabs the hulk that means the hulk could potentially grab him...which would be very bad for gohan.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, i'll give you that. It'd take a hell of a blast though.



i agree with you, but still i think that the only attack that islong range that can actually hit and at the same time hurt gohan is thunderclap, which would leave gohan in a pretty bad state


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 17, 2009)

veget0010 said:


> i agree with you, but still i think that the only attack that islong range that can actually hit and at the same time hurt gohan is thunderclap, which would leave gohan in a pretty bad state



Thors a guy who can bech press the weight of a small planet while..hemorrhaging internally..and more or less being a human smoothie..as far as just how durable and tough thor is

hulk has at various points...been able to ktfo..thor with a thunder clap

so yes..Gohan should be severly injured..theres no way he's got higher soak/durability then thor

it may take hulk awhile to get mad enough to bring gohan down..but he will and way before gohan can take him down


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## bobomb (Nov 17, 2009)

Gohan wins with relative ease.

Gohan would lose though if we are talking about the kid Freeza saga Gohan.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Thors a guy who can bech press the weight of a small planet while..hemorrhaging internally..and more or less being a human smoothie..as far as just how durable and tough thor is
> 
> hulk has at various points...been able to ktfo..thor with a thunder clap
> 
> ...



Could Hulk tank gohan's most powerful attack and keep on trucking? I can see him being incapacitated by gohan, the hulk may have a wicked healing factor, but he can still be vaporized can't he?

I'll admit i don't know a lot about the hulk, don't care about him as a character (just as a catalyst) enough to pay attention to details of his durability/healing factor.

As for thunderclap, i still don't see how gohan can't just dodge it. Hulk doesn't have any attacks that can tag a non-exhausted gohan, does he?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 17, 2009)

Hulk is so inconsistent. Highest end he murders. Normally, i'd say he gets stomped.


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## Bender (Nov 17, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Quit your trolling. You have nothing to add. Hulk fails. It's this simple. Dismissed.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 17, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> hulk breathes in space
> 
> hulk has gotten so pissed off...that he's thunder clapped out entire time streams
> 
> ...



LOL, dont post if your gonna bitch about the topic everytime. Your bordering on intentionally being ignorant towards DBZ characters.

I dont see how Hulks thunderclap will hit Gohan...Mystic Gohan is VERY VERY fast and powerful. Gohan will vaporize him without the Hulk being able to touch him. Hulk may be fast but his combat speed is SLOW, slow to the point where its absolutely no effort for  Gohan to dodge. Sorry Gohan takes this one.


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## Hellspawn28 (Nov 17, 2009)

The Hulk has tag people beyond hypersonic speed before, and speed is not a issue here. I say WWH would win since his punchs are much stronger, and he has regen too. And becomes more stronger everytime he gets piss off.


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## Fang (Nov 17, 2009)

Juggalo said:


> Gohan can fly but Hulk can jump into the stratosphere. Gohan needs to power up to Mystic at lightspeed to have a chance, IMO.



Not that I give a shit about this match up but kid Goku jumped into the troposphere casually in the 21st Budokai.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 17, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Could Hulk tank gohan's most powerful attack and keep on trucking? I can see him being incapacitated by gohan, the hulk may have a wicked healing factor, but he can still be vaporized can't he?


at various points in his career he's regened in seconds from being turned into a mummy (i shit you not) being turned into multen hulk soup..having most of his flesh melted off fuck the guy even had half his body turned into anti matter and recovered from that

his healing factors about as broken as lobos and wolverines really 


Windwaker said:


> I'll admit i don't know a lot about the hulk, don't care about him as a character (just as a catalyst) enough to pay attention to details of his durability/healing factor.



there are some versions of hulk that are monstrous

WWH has the strength increase...the others have so he'll get there eventually

his durability was retarded though...but his healing factor lost none of its potency to the likelyhood of gohan putting him down for long..is nill 


Windwaker said:


> As for thunderclap, i still don't see how gohan can't just dodge it. Hulk doesn't have any attacks that can tag a non-exhausted gohan, does he?



the problem with that is that its a thunderclap thats omnidrectional...

in fact its a ground based counter specifically for flying or fast moving opponents meaning stationary bricks use it..to over come their lacking

now gohan can hit him before he claps one off but i dont think it will be enough to do more then slow him down for a few ticks



hadomaru said:


> Hulk is so inconsistent. Highest end he murders. Normally, i'd say he gets stomped.



Hulks generally consistent it's WWh that was the..ass end of hulks history for its inconsistency 



heavy_rasengan said:


> LOL, dont post if your gonna bitch about the topic everytime.



how many topics of yours have been closed? 



heavy_rasengan said:


> Your bordering on intentionally being ignorant towards DBZ characters.



give every single claim you made has been false?


heavy_rasengan said:


> I dont see how Hulks thunderclap will hit Gohan...Mystic Gohan is VERY VERY fast and powerful. Gohan will vaporize him without the Hulk being able to touch him. Hulk may be fast but his combat speed is SLOW, slow to the point where its absolutely no effort for  Gohan to dodge. Sorry Gohan takes this one.



oi...no just no


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> @Windwaker
> 
> He doesnt need to grab Hulk like that, he could just kick him up in the air and then send the energy wave.
> 
> How durable do you think Gohan is against Hulks punches? Though his angrier ones may leave a mark, at the first stages he wont really be doing any damage.



Pretty sure WWH is much stronger than normal hulk, and even at the start would enough to overpower gohan when it comes to brute strength.



Hellspawn28 said:


> The Hulk has tag people beyond hypersonic speed before, and speed is not a issue here. I say WWH would win since his punchs are much stronger, and he has regen too. And becomes more stronger everytime he gets piss off.



Wouldn't that be jobbing though? Does hulk really have any business tagging hypersonic+ characters?

EDIT: Yea im kinda retarded...forgot thunderclap was omnidirectional and not just the direction he claps his hands in. If hulks gets pissed enough thunderclap could potentially bring gohan down long enough for hulk to get one epic punch in.


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## shit (Nov 17, 2009)

TWF said:


> Not that I give a shit about this match up but kid Goku jumped into the troposphere casually in the 21st Budokai.



well in my defense this thread hadn't gotten serious yet when I posted
also I just used stratosphere as a generic benchmark, not thinking about it
BUT WWH has Banner intellect, so he can build himself a trampoline and jump into space and stuff


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 17, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Pretty sure WWH is much stronger than normal hulk, and even at the start would enough to overpower gohan when it comes to brute strength.



eh WWh  is controversial  greg paks like loeb...basically these guys are like if jplaya got paid to write naruto


WWh's feats are inconsistent..but the better ones are..essentially the stable of what high end hulk is 



Windwaker said:


> Wouldn't that be jobbing though? Does hulk really have any business tagging hypersonic+ characters?



yyeeaahh no idea

i would start calling BS on it when he tags light speeders and beyond though




Windwaker said:


> EDIT: Yea im kinda retarded...forgot thunderclap was omnidirectional and not just the direction he claps his hands in. If hulks gets pissed enough thunderclap could potentially bring gohan down long enough for hulk to get one epic punch in.



he may actually kill him with a thunder clap

really furious extremely powerful hulks have produced thunder claps...that have caused a chain reaction that has collapsed..a galaxy..a time line and a pocket dimension to name a few

not that He's a legit galaxy/d buster becuase he's not at all..not even remotely so

but to be able to agitate things..to where...it begins something that causes that..is pretty epic

mind you..We're talking absolute peak of hulks rage..here

Gohan wont get him that mad

but he'll get him mad enough to where he starts staggering guys like thor with those claps

and theres..where it happens Gohans not getting up after that

he maybe able to knock hulk out before that though..but Gohans got that CIS all saiyans have

that play around too much stupidity blood lust can't really negate

so i'm thinking no based only off that...saiyans are morons..for the shit they let happen in battle


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## Bender (Nov 17, 2009)

World War Hulk is a demon of absolute destruction if I remember correctly.


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## Z (Nov 17, 2009)

what the fuck. Hulk demolishes.

WORLD FUCKING WAR HULK?


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## Champagne Supernova (Nov 17, 2009)

What the fuck is this shit?

Hulks rapes


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

Hulk doesnt rape or demolish anything. By the time Hulk puts his hand together, Gohan will be behind him. All Gohan needs to do, is fly at a reasonable distance away from hulk and fire away semi-planet busters at a constant rate. Everytime hulk trys to jump, Gohan moves out of the way and puts him down with another blast. I see no way of Hulk winning, He will get vaporized and hes to slow to ever get a hit on Gohan.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 18, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> what the fuck. Hulk demolishes.
> 
> WORLD FUCKING WAR HULK?



at least it wasn't War "i'm so powerful skyfather enchantments mean nothing to me" Hul

or the meastro and his man ebard

cause you know..the mean beard solos..all


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## Havoc (Nov 18, 2009)

Not sure if you're joking or not, but WWH would beat Maestro.


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Quit your trolling. You have nothing to add. Hulk fails. It's this simple. Dismissed.



That's horribly ironic coming from you Raigen.


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## Champagne Supernova (Nov 18, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Hulk doesnt rape or demolish anything. By the time Hulk puts his hand together, Gohan will be behind him. All Gohan needs to do, is fly at a reasonable distance away from hulk and fire away semi-planet busters at a constant rate. Everytime hulk trys to jump, Gohan moves out of the way and puts him down with another blast. I see no way of Hulk winning, He will get vaporized and hes to slow to ever get a hit on Gohan.



No Hulk rapes.

And violently i might add.


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## Hadesama (Nov 18, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Hulk doesnt rape or demolish anything. By the time Hulk puts his hand together, Gohan will be behind him. All Gohan needs to do, is fly at a reasonable distance away from hulk and fire away semi-planet busters at a constant rate. Everytime hulk trys to jump, Gohan moves out of the way and puts him down with another blast. I see no way of Hulk winning, He will get vaporized and hes to slow to ever get a hit on Gohan.



Bannerless Hulk destroyed an armor that could only be destroyed by BREAKING REALITY!


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> ski, seriously, stop talking.



One of Hulks early enemies was made out of lightning. Perhaps you should know more about the opposition before stating things?

@Gohan winning: No, Gohan has no idea how strong the Hulk is physically and he'll go for Melee, this ends badly for Gohan who gets taken out in one punch. Ki blasts are pointless as he can catch them and throw them back.

Thunderclap would wind Gohan long enough for Hulk to take him out. Hulk can survive in space for a decent time while Gohan would die. Hulk fights Thor and Sentry.

The winner is obvious, Gohan can't do anything to the Hulk and even drawing with him is a BIG if.  No DB character can beat the Hulk.


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## Hadesama (Nov 18, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> One of Hulks early enemies was made out of lightning. Perhaps you should know more about the opposition before stating things?
> 
> @Gohan winning: No, Gohan has no idea how strong the Hulk is physically and he'll go for Melee, this ends badly for Gohan who gets taken out in one punch. Ki blasts are pointless as he can catch them and throw them back.
> 
> ...



How would Gohan end after receiving 10 punches in the face from Hulk?


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 18, 2009)

Hadesama said:


> How would Gohan end after receiving 10 punches in the face from Hulk?


There wouldn't be a Gohan left to punch in the face after about four or so.


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## Lina Inverse (Nov 18, 2009)

2 punches would splat Gohan's face, what the hell do you think 10 punches are gonna do to him?


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## Judas (Nov 18, 2009)

Hadesama said:


> How would Gohan end after receiving 10 punches in the face from Hulk?



Consider Gohan a figment of everyone's imagination.


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## Lucifeller (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> DBZ'ers are notorious for letting out attacks that can harm/kill planet-tankers without destroying the planet. They control the destructive range of their attacks constantly. And I've yet to see Hulk survive without a head. Also his return from skeleton was aided, not something he did on his own from what I've heard. And really, Gohan can reduce him to particles if he wants to.



You do know the Hulk tanked blasts from Silver Surfer, who's a planetbuster on his own, right? Power Cosmic, no less, which is to ki what ki is to a matchstick.


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## Judas (Nov 18, 2009)

Anyway I thought Superman/Hulk VS DBZ threads were banned?


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> One of Hulks early enemies was made out of lightning. Perhaps you should know more about the opposition before stating things?
> 
> @Gohan winning: No, Gohan has no idea how strong the Hulk is physically and he'll go for Melee, this ends badly for Gohan who gets taken out in one punch. Ki blasts are pointless as he can catch them and throw them back.
> 
> ...



LOL WTF!? Your joking right? He CANT catch 100 ki blasts going for him and he cant even fucking fly. Gohans ki blasts go ftl...No...hulk is not catching them.... I dont care who Hulk fights, did he KILL a single person in WWH with his punches!? His punches made weaklings fly and would demolish the ground, Gohan does that just powering up...Dont underestimate Gohan...He will fight physically on par with Hulk until Hulk gets REALLY REALLY mad but he would be dead by then. Also, he wont be able to land A SINGLE HIT ON GOHAN...what do you not understand about that? Do you know how fast Gohan is?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqz5RSdQ0Kw[/YOUTUBE]

Just watch this and know that Hulk will not land a punch. This is SSJ2 Gohan dont even get me started with mystic.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> You do know the Hulk tanked blasts from Silver Surfer, who's a planetbuster on his own, right? Power Cosmic, no less, which is to ki what ki is to a matchstick.



You do know that this is World War Hulk right?


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## Vault (Nov 18, 2009)

Oh Raigen  You are reaching Sentry levels


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> LOL WTF!? Your joking right? He CANT catch 100 ki blasts going for him and he cant even fucking fly



Not a problem Surfer and Thor could fly, did'nt save them.





> Gohans ki blasts go ftl



No but it's okay it's not enough.




> ...No...hulk is not catching them....



He does'nt even need to, they won't do anything to him. Thunderclap still solves any problem. 





> I dont care who Hulk fights, did he KILL a single person in WWH with  his punches!?



Who has Gohan killed with his punches? You should care who Hulk fights because all of them are stronger than Gohan.



> His punches made weaklings fly and would demolish the ground, Gohan does that just powering up...Dont underestimate Gohan...He will fight physically on par with Hulk until Hulk gets REALLY REALLY mad but he would be dead by then. Also, he wont be able to land A SINGLE HIT ON GOHAN...what do you not understand about that? Do you know how fast Gohan is?



Gohan has'nt shown physical strength like moving tectonic plates or anything close to Hulk. People below the Hulk can lift 25 million tonnes. Again, Hulk can hit Thor so he'll be just fine.



> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqz5RSdQ0Kw[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Just watch this and know that Hulk will not land a punch. This is SSJ2 Gohan dont even get me started with mystic.



I've watched this like everyone else has. We already know what DB characters are capable, they get raped horribly by Hulk.



> You do know that this is World War Hulk right?



This is less rape?


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

Hulk has dented Adamantium has'nt he? He's also thrown people into orbit.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

> Not a problem Surfer and Thor could fly, did'nt save them.



Well obviously Surfer and Thor were weaken down to the maximum because we both know that Hulk has no chance against either of them at their full power...so that argument means jack...



> No but it's okay it's not enough.



Yes it is enough, a ki blast going at ftl not only releases the energy within but also the force is much greater due to the speed. Hulk will not glance those off.




> He does'nt even need to, they won't do anything to him. Thunderclap still solves any problem.



YES he can thunderclap one while Gohan with his speed sends them in every single direction.



> Who has Gohan killed with his punches? You should care who Hulk fights because all of them are stronger than Gohan.



Gohan killed those cell juniors which were all stronger than USSJ fighters. Most of the people Hulk fought were weakened down so thats not an argument at all. 



> Gohan has'nt shown physical strength like moving tectonic plates or anything close to Hulk. People below the Hulk can lift 25 million tonnes. Again, Hulk can hit Thor so he'll be just fine.



I havent seen that in WWH sorry and everyone was weakened so no I dont think they could.



> I've watched this like everyone else has. We already know what DB characters are capable, they get raped horribly by Hulk.



Obviously you dont or else you would know by watching the video that it is impossible for hulk to catch Gohan.



> This is less rape?



Xaviers little kid students survived... 
He showed no SPEED at ALL... Gohan not only possesses his strength but along with the speed. One fully powered Kamehameha will send him to the sun. Also did u say that NO DB character can defeat the HULK!? HAHAHAHAAHA all your credibility was just lost right there.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Surfer is pacifist, he wasn't trying against Hulk. And I've proven this on many an occasion. If Surfer wanted to take down Hulk, he can do so very, very easily, and has done so on multiple occasions. Don't try to make Hulk out to be better than he is. Any time Thor gets hit is because of PIS and *everyone* knows this. Hulk's speed, at best, is maybe around sonic speed. There is nothing showing he's any faster than this. Fighters in mid-DB were massively hypersonic.

Your idea that Hulk could touch Gohan is completely absurd, even the idea Hulk could hurt Gohan right off is also completely ridiculous. A near-death Freeza with one arm, no lower body and part of his head gone survived Namek's explosion. Planet-busting force is not enough to kill these people. Frankly Freeza at 1% of his power took a planet-buster from Vegeta and punted the damn thing into space.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Well obviously Surfer and Thor were weaken down to the maximum because we both know that Hulk has no chance against either of them at their full power...so that argument means jack...



 Hulk has kept up with them, what does this have to do with whether they could put him down?  Hulk has matched strength as well. You know Thor and Herc caused the Axis of the Earth to tilt in one of their battles right?  Hulk has shattered an asteroid twice the size of Earth. I seem to recall him fighting quicksilver somewhere as well. He's not as slow as people think, he can be fast when he wants.




> Yes it is enough, a ki blast going at ftl not only releases the energy within but also the force is much greater due to the speed. Hulk will not glance those off



Gohan is not FTL.  Also Hulk vs Ironclad disagree. Hulk has punched through some crazy shit. 



> YES he can thunderclap one while Gohan with his speed sends them in every single direction



Thunderclap that finishes of Ironclad.



> Gohan killed those cell juniors which were all stronger than USSJ fighters. Most of the people Hulk fought were weakened down so thats not an argument at all



Juggernaut was weakned down? Explain how.
Was Hyperion weakened? I don't remember
Was Ironclad? Don't remember

If they were please remind me.



> I havent seen that in WWH sorry and everyone was weakened so no I dont think they could



WWH should be able to do anything his weaker versions could. Hulk has dented adamantium and moved tectonic plates and smashed something twice the size of Earth. 



> Obviously you dont or else you would know by watching the video that it is impossible for hulk to catch Gohan



Gohan tries to punch Hulk, he regrets trying melee and takes a punch that would destroy him. One or two is max.



> *Xaviers little kid students survived...*
> He showed no SPEED at ALL... Gohan not only possesses his strength but along with the speed. One fully powered Kamehameha will send him to the sun. Also did u say that NO DB character can defeat the HULK!? HAHAHAHAAHA all your credibility was just lost right there.



Gohan does not posses any of Hulk's strength AT ALL. Kamehameha requires time to charge and what makes you think Hulk can't block it? Hulk has also sent people into orbit if I recall. The bolded is either PIS, or I must have forgotten something. When does that happen again? I'd like to go read that.



> Surfer is pacifist, he wasn't trying against Hulk. And I've proven this on many an occasion. If Surfer wanted to take down Hulk, he can do so very, very easily, and has done so on multiple occasions. Don't try to make Hulk out to be better than he is. Any time Thor gets hit is because of PIS and everyone knows this. Hulk's speed, at best, is maybe around sonic speed. There is nothing showing he's any faster than this. Fighters in mid-DB were massively hypersonic.
> 
> Your idea that Hulk could touch Gohan is completely absurd, even the idea Hulk could hurt Gohan right off is also completely ridiculous. A near-death Freeza with one arm, no lower body and part of his head gone survived Namek's explosion. Planet-busting force is not enough to kill these people. Frankly Freeza at 1% of his power took a planet-buster from Vegeta and punted the damn thing into space



 since anime feats are allowed, I suppose Vegeta's planet busting in episode 10 counts(Lol, TC needs to allow anime for this to even be remotely fair)

Frieza can survive in space, his anatomy is different from Saiyans the show made this clear. Cell even states he only survived in space thanks to Frieza's Cells. Gohan is'nt Frieza. Besides Hulk has come back from MUCH Worse. Gohan blows the planet up, who do you think that's worse for?Gohan gets near Hulk, who do you think will suffer?

Gohan being able to keep his distance won't help, Hulk gets stronger and stronger and his stamina is far above Gohan's. Hulk could go for days if he has to. Tired Gohan dies.

Gohan has one advantage and it's not much.

Hulk has the strength feats to hurt Gohan but supposedly Gohan trying Melee won't be the end of him? HAHAHA


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> You do know that this is World War Hulk right?



And Hulk's second strongest incarnation/personality is less rape how?

You aaos act like Gohan's going to be able to keep having his face bloodied by Hulk's punches, when it only take a few at the most to turn it into jelly.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Freeza's cells allow them to breathe in space, that's all. That doesn't mean anything when it comes to his durability. Freeza was on Namek when it exploded, meaning even in that severely weakened and beaten condition he withstood the force of the planet exploding. Then he comes back and Mirai Trunks turns him into kibbles'n bits effortlessly before vaporizing his pieces.


----------



## Dexion (Nov 18, 2009)

Are WWH's attacks planet busting level or higher? Thats the only way I can see him being able to seriously hurt Gohan.

Oh and seriously SS can wtfpwn Hulk if he wanted too.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Also, Anime just made things flashier. Like Vegeta's attack on Freeza that I showed. At about 6:40 in Vegeta fires it, Freeza punts at 7:15 and detonates at 7:47

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBBq-BF5Zt0[/YOUTUBE]


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

> lmao Hulk has kept up with them, what does this have to do with whether they could put him down?  Hulk has matched strength as well. You know Thor and Herc caused the Axis of the Earth to tilt in one of their battles right?  Hulk has shattered an asteroid twice the size of Earth. I seem to recall him fighting quicksilver somewhere as well. He's not as slow as people think, he can be fast when he wants.



I know that but Thor and Hercs battle have nothing to do with WWH. Hulk shattering an asteroid twice the size of earth was a good feat but Gohan can send out many many planet busters at will. Him just powering up sends people flying. Him catching quicksilver was PIS and even if he could do you really think he has that kind of combat speed? Of course not.




> Gohan is not FTL.  Also Hulk vs Ironclad disagree. Hulk has punched through some crazy shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Thunderclap that finishes of Ironclad.



Whether Gohan is FTL or not is debatable and I will not get into it here but his beams are FTL. Also take a look at the video and you will realize that Hulk has absolutely no way of even touching Gohan when he has that kind of speed. Also mind that this is only is SSJ2. Freiza saga fighters could punch through mountains, at this point Gohan punching through crazy shit is effortless.  




> Juggernaut was weakned down? Explain how.
> Was Hyperion weakened? I don't remember
> Was Ironclad? Don't remember
> 
> If they were please remind me.



Juggernaut was not weakened but he also didnt defeat him...I dont remember Hyperions or Ironclads battle please remind me.





> WWH should be able to do anything his weaker versions could. Hulk has dented adamantium and moved tectonic plates and smashed something twice the size of Earth.



But that was when he was seriously mad, he would be dead by the time he could reach that point. Also Z fighters have immense durability, as Raigen mentioned, Frieza almost destroyed survived the explosion of a planet, he was almost destroyed and had less power than a SSJ, imagine Gohans durability. 



> Gohan tries to punch Hulk, he regrets trying melee and takes a punch that would destroy him. One or two is max.



Gohan punches Hulk, Hulk gets injured, he tries to punch Gohan but Gohan is way to fast, his punch hits the air while Gohan is behind him charging a Ki blast against his back. Gohan would take MANY MANY of his punches unless Hulk is SUPER SUPER mad but even then it would take 5-10. Z fighters get smashed against mountains at tremendous speeds and forces. You are seriously underestimating their durability.



> Gohan does not posses any of Hulk's strength AT ALL. Kamehameha requires time to charge and what makes you think Hulk can't block it? Hulk has also sent people into orbit if I recall. The bolded is either PIS, or I must have forgotten something. When does that happen again? I'd like to go read that.



Gohan does, he is very very strong... There is no way Hulk can block a fully charged Kamehameha... it will send him flying while trying to block it. Sending people into orbit is not much of a feat if you can fly.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZp5DtDsBUg[/YOUTUBE]






> since anime feats are allowed, I suppose Vegeta's planet busting in episode 10 counts(Lol, TC needs to allow anime for this to even be remotely fair)



The only reason I allow Anime is because Hulk has countless feats while Gohan has a limited number.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

Dexion said:


> Are WWH's attacks planet busting level or higher? Thats the only way I can see him being able to seriously hurt Gohan.
> 
> Oh and seriously SS can wtfpwn Hulk if he wanted too.



He has shown no planet busting capability in WWH. Theoretically he could reach a level where he can planet bust but the only questions are can he survive until then and is it even possible for him to land a hit on Gohan?


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> I know that but Thor and Hercs battle have nothing to do with WWH. Hulk shattering an asteroid twice the size of earth was a good feat but Gohan can send out many many planet busters at will. Him just powering up sends people flying. Him catching quicksilver was PIS and even if he could do you really think he has that kind of combat speed? Of course not



Okay, even if he does'nt how does this help against the fact he tank everything thrown and outlast Gohan?



> Whether Gohan is FTL or not is debatable and I will not get into it here but his beams are FTL. Also take a look at the video and you will realize that Hulk has absolutely no way of even touching Gohan when he has that kind of speed. Also mind that this is only is SSJ2. Freiza saga fighters could punch through mountains, at this point Gohan punching through crazy shit is effortless



Gohan has punched through a timestorm? Hulk and Ironclad's battle was being felt across multiple dimensions if I recall. Hulk punching the asteroid out was in his weaker form not WWH. Gohan has no such feats of strength. Bannerless Hulk has punches through reality.



> Juggernaut was not weakened but he also didnt defeat him...I dont remember Hyperions or Ironclads battle please remind me



Juggernaut is powerful in his own right though due to his power source. I don't remember the other two either hence why I ask you remind me if they were weakened.



> But that was when he was seriously mad, he would be dead by the time he could reach that point. Also Z fighters have immense durability, as Raigen mentioned, Frieza almost destroyed survived the explosion of a planet, he was almost destroyed and had less power than a SSJ, imagine Gohans durability



Frieza being able to survive is due to his anatomy. This has nothing to do with powerlevels and even then Hulk has thrown an android into orbit in his weaker form. Hulk has overcome leader's glows which turns an opponent's strength back on them.  Hulk has also some insane durability feats like leaping into concentrated anti-matter. Wolverine has had trouble cutting him and offcourse he's fought the Hulkbuster suit made  by Tony Stark.



> Gohan punches Hulk, Hulk gets injured, he tries to punch Gohan but Gohan is way to fast, his punch hits the air while Gohan is behind him charging a Ki blast against his back. Gohan would take MANY MANY of his punches unless Hulk is SUPER SUPER mad but even then it would take 5-10. Z fighters get smashed against mountains at tremendous speeds and forces. You are seriously underestimating their durability



Hulk won't even feel Gohan. Mountain smashing was done by weaker versions of the Hulk this Hulk has FAR FAR FAR greater strength.



> Gohan does, he is very very strong... There is no way Hulk can block a fully charged Kamehameha... it will send him flying while trying to block it. Sending people into orbit is not much of a feat if you can fly.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZp5DtDsBUg[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



Gohan is not strong enough to take punches from Hulk. Gohan can't create hurricanes and nuclear bomb like explosions by clapping his hands or move tectonic plates or do any of things Hulk has with his strength. 25 million tonnes is nothing to most versions of the Hulk. 

All you're doing is calling PIS on everything in the end if it hurts your argument.



> He has shown no planet busting capability in WWH



Gohan has'nt shown planet busting capacity either but we know he can if weaker characters than him can. WWH can if his weaker version can.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Dude, these guys shatter mountains when their punches connect. Goku as a kid had class 20 strength just to push a boulder so Roshi would train him. Anything else and we have non-SS Vegeta training at 450x Gravity putting just his body weight into the 40ton range, not including clothing and air density and he trained to the point it was near effortless. Not to mention these guys cause typhoons and electromagnetic disturbances by just increasing their chi level. Also the threat of destroying the planet by powering up too fast.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

Again DB characters have good strength too just not at Hulk level.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

No doubt on that, but their durability is unquestionable and regardless of their strength levels, their chi attacks are what take the cake here. speedwise Hulk can't touch him and with the chi blasts Hulk will get pounded into powder faster than he can think or rage up.


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## killfox (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Also, Anime just made things flashier. Like Vegeta's attack on Freeza that I showed. At about 6:40 in Vegeta fires it, Freeza punts at 7:15 and detonates at 7:47
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBBq-BF5Zt0[/YOUTUBE]


Holy shit the explosion was bigger than the planet itself. And this was a weak version of Vegeta.


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## Hellspawn28 (Nov 18, 2009)

Holy crap I forgot about that moment in the series. It was better then when Vegito was able to kick the ball outside the Planet when Buu lauch it.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Gotta remember though that visual effect was only in the anime. It's the same attack as in the manga but only the anime flushed it out by showing the actual explosion it caused. It wasn't too much different in the anime when Freeza attacked Goku during their final battle (at 100% and SSJ respectively) and Goku caught the giant energy ball and punched it off-world where it collided with another planet seconds later and destroyed it.


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## Dexion (Nov 18, 2009)

^DBZ inconsistancy FTL?


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

killfox said:


> Holy shit the explosion was bigger than the planet itself. And this was a weak version of Vegeta.



Now imagine the effect Mystic Gohans attacks will have on Hulk. Gohan will completely vaporize him.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 18, 2009)

Unless Gohan's packing gamma-irradiated ki blasts, he won't be vaporizing shit. 

As for Hulk not killing anybody during WWH, that was because he didn't want to. The Illuminati were the only focus of his rage and revenge, so while he hurt quite a few people that he fought, he wasn't trying to kill 'em.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 18, 2009)

the level of bullshit in this thread is epic


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## Judas (Nov 18, 2009)

A T-Clap followed by a three solid punches should finish it.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

T-clap does nothing. Punches hit nothing. Gohan vaporizes him.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> T-clap does nothing. Punches hit nothing. Gohan vaporizes him.



because you say so right?

never mind that no one has ever been able to prove what you wish to push


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## Dante10 (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen, The Visionary


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## Champagne Supernova (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen and heavy_rasengan should meet and suck DBZ cock together.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

About 7:30 in, Cell Super Kamehameha. Gohan counters it easily.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kF8zXnpzAU[/YOUTUBE]


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## Dante10 (Nov 18, 2009)

Champagne Supernova said:


> Raigen and heavy_rasengan should meet and suck DBZ cock together.



Maybe we should hook them up on E-Harmony or something?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 18, 2009)

Dante10 said:


> Raigen, The Visionary



"a visionary vision is scary.." 

no..but really raigen

*Spoiler*: __


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 18, 2009)

Ahhhh, The Kingpin. What a marvelous bastard.


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## Judas (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> T-clap does nothing. Punches hit nothing. Gohan vaporizes him.



Your claim is based on...


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## Shoddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

ki blasts ftl? what the fuck is this shit. ki blasts were nowhere near ftl. the fastest shown was an inconsistency when roshi blew up the moon and even that wasn't near the speed of light.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Actually, it was. I've done the calcs. His attack was almost lightspeed in that instance and there have been other times when beams from Z-fighters have blown off-world and into deep space. One time was when Vegeta attacked Cell. Not to mention way earlier when Piccolo nuked the moon and Saiyan Saga when Goku's 4xKaioken Kamehameha blew Vegeta into the stratosphere and kept going even after Vegeta rolled off. Happens occasionally.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

Your calcs were shot down multiple times, we already have used actual feats in the manga that contradict. Gotenks feat, Buu not making to Goku and Vegeya while they were talking etc. Roshi's attack is not counted but even if it were the speeds of characters show they are not lightspeed.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

They weren't shot down, you just refuse to accept them because they actually prove dbz speeds. You refuse to accept that Roshi could destroy the moon, even when it shows him doing it, and then complain that it's inconsistent because it wasn't repeated (and how could it have been when the Moon was destroyed and thus no one could replicate it until it was wished back during the 5yr period between DB and DBZ), only then later being re-done by Piccolo when Gohan went Oozaru during training and Piccolo blew up the moon in similar fashion.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

Roshi's does'nt count because characters stronger than him can't go above Island busting? Piccolo's should count. But the point is characters after Roshi were'nt lightspeed based on feats.

No character has a feat that makes them lightspeed.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Actually, it was. I've done the calcs. His attack was almost lightspeed in that instance and there have been other times when beams from Z-fighters have blown off-world and into deep space. One time was when Vegeta attacked Cell. Not to mention way earlier when Piccolo nuked the moon and Saiyan Saga when Goku's 4xKaioken Kamehameha blew Vegeta into the stratosphere and kept going even after Vegeta rolled off. Happens occasionally.



first of all fan calcs...are made by non canon sources so even if i did take you seriously..why the hell shouldn't i just dismiss your numbers as pure speculation made by a non canon source


secondly even if i did use your numbers as a refernce..your so massively biased you probably can't be trusted

so in short


*Spoiler*: __


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Goku's Kamehameha is faster/stronger than Roshi's and it has been evaded/blocked/reacted to, which would indicate that the recipient is of equal or greater speed. This I also showed when Goku tried it on Raditz only for Raditz to evade and outrun it before dealing with the homing-super-kamehameha and blocking it one-handed. Also given that Piccolo can use attacks that can reach the Moon in seconds and destroy it and his chi attacks didn't hit or were smacked away by Nappa would indicate Nappa was even faster than them.

You can't say "Ok the attacks are that fast" and then say "but the characters aren't!" when the chars themselves have shown capable of evading them.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

Goku needing to teleport across the planet implies he's not lightspeed
Gotenks who is most certainly stronger than most DB characters was not lightspeed
Goku running on snakeway was not lightspeed
Buu taking time to reach Goku and Vegeta despite knowing their locations contradicts 

Really, no attack was lightspeed.


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## Bender (Nov 18, 2009)

Too much DBZ dickriding in this thread

Where the hell is a mod when you need one? Heavy Rasengan and Raigen the Jizz of the OBD


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Goku using IT doesn't denote their speed. Their combat speed is better than their flight speed and also no one aside from the Buu's, Cell, and Freeza's race can exist in space unaided so them not flying between planets is more them not trying to kill themselves and is the only reason they fight so damn hard to keep from destroying the Earth, cause whether or not they survived the blast, the lack of atmosphere and oxygen would kill them.

So, really, you have no case.


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## Bender (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> So, really, you have no case.



And you have poor grammar son. 

Also once again you have fail to provide us proof that DBZ Gohan's ki blasts are light speed


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

If Goku needs to teleport when at that point he should FTL, covering the globe or distance should be child's play and IT not needed. Goku was not lightspeed then. Gotenks is'nt lightspeed so no version of Goku is either. Ultimate Buu was'nt lightspeed either, he did'nt make it in time to stop Goku and Vegat from fusing.


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## Banhammer (Nov 18, 2009)

world war hulk was busting continents by walking.


lol gohan


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

I have a question.
Was the arc in DB where goku trained with kami after beating king piccolo filler?


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

After the Roshi/Piccolo argument, there's no need to prove anything further as everything after that automatically makes them lightspeed-FTL. The anime shows Roshi busting the moon in about 4-5 seconds. Moon is around 720,000miles from the Earth. Light travels at a rate around 186,000miles per second. It takes light 3.87sec to travel from Earth to the Moon. Roshi's attack is just under lightspeed. And Piccolo later replicated this, thus again proving the speed of their attacks.

You can take that however you wish, but it without a doubt proves their speed. Raditz could barely avoid Piccolo's attack and that included the fact Piccolo was off-balance after losing an arm, meaning at the least Raditz was around that level and still faster than Piccolo and Goku (whose speed probably hadn't changed much in 5yrs). Even without weights Raditz clearly dominated them, and yet he couldn't evade Gohan's headbutt. You can say that was PIS with him being surprised that a kid had a PL of over 1100 (700-900 in the anime, 1100 in the manga). Or could admit that Gohan was just fast enough when raging to tag Raditz.

Regardless of how you wanna take that it's part of the plot and story that the characters continued to develop in speed, strength and power throughout the continuation of the series. If an argument can be made for lightspeed that early in the series, then really nothing else need be proven as with the simple progression of the series would make them faster than that point many times over.

I know, you don't like it. You hate it, you'll never accept that anyone from DBZ could be that fast that early. But I don't care how you feel and it's not like Toriyama wanted to clarify nor cared himself to have to babysit people through his creation by explaining everything to them. That's what sourcebooks and stuff are for.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

You're ignoring my points and just saying the samething over and over again Raigen.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

You haven't made a point. You asked "prove Gohan's attacks are ftl". That's it. It doesn't need to be proven because their speed and attacks were already lightspeed at, really, the beginning of the series. Anything after just means FTL. There's no need for elaboration. Either accept it or...don't. Either way it doesn't change what they did.


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> You haven't made a point. You asked "prove Gohan's attacks are ftl". That's it. It doesn't need to be proven because their speed and attacks were already lightspeed at, really, the beginning of the series. Anything after just means FTL. There's no need for elaboration. Either accept it or...don't. Either way it doesn't change what they did.



You do need to prove it, because basing it off of Roshi's moonbusting feat is wrong due to that feat being inconsistant with what Roshi has shown. Unless you can actually prove it without spouting bullshit, concede.


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## Banhammer (Nov 18, 2009)

powerscalling is fun yes? so the hulk who has defeated the red hulk, counts in his victory lists one that has singlehandedly blarghed the silver surfer, doctor strange, terrax namor zordo and a celestial being known as the game master,



so, lol, gohan


----------



## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 18, 2009)

Fan made calcs aren't really canon - it's just something the OBD happens to accept if it's sound, logical, and consistent.

And using anime to make calcs when anime is not canon.  Epic.


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

I have a question.
Was the arc in DB where goku trained with kami after beating king piccolo filler?


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

It's not inconsistent. With the moon gone there was no replicating it until later when the Moon was restored via plot during the 5yr period between series when Piccolo re-destroyed the Moon. It's still valid, especially since Piccolo again proves the speed of the attacks as early back as the Saiyan Saga. Besides Roshi barely fights in the series. His first time showing his Kamehameha was blowing up a mountain by accident (he meant to blow out the fire, not destroy the mountain. He forgot how strong he was when maxed out). Then later he blew up the moon in order to get Goku to turn back to normal, the attack taking most of Roshi's strength.

The only other time we have Roshi serious about anything was against King Piccolo and Roshi openly admits that Piccolo was far stronger than he is. As Piccolo showed, a Kamehameha wasn't gonna do jack to him at the time (Kid Goku was a bit stronger than maxed Roshi and his attack hit Piccolo dead on for no effect, showing just how freakin tough King Piccolo was before regaining his youth). If you had been familiar with this you wouldn't have asked. Besides after using Mafuba Roshi died until he got rezzed later. Roshi never fights again (unless you count "World's Strongest" in which he failed).


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen speed feats say they are NOT lightspeed even after Roshi's moon busting. If Goku needs to teleport to cover a distance across the globe rather than go there by himself with his supposed lightspeed+ movement it's obvious he's not lightspeed.

Gotenks was'nt lightspeed based on feats either. At best mach 800-1000.


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> I have a question.
> Was the arc in DB where goku trained with kami after beating king piccolo filler?



Yes. 10char


----------



## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Yes. 10char



Oh.  If it wasn't, wouldn't Goku dodging lightning, which is light speed, put him at ftl?


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> Oh.  If it wasn't, wouldn't Goku dodging lightning, which is light speed, put him at ftl?



That was filler I think...and shouldn't be counted.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Raigen speed feats say they are NOT lightspeed even after Roshi's moon busting. If Goku needs to teleport to cover a distance across the globe rather than go there by himself with his supposed lightspeed+ movement it's obvious he's not lightspeed.
> 
> Gotenks was'nt lightspeed based on feats either. At best mach 800-1000.



Again, PIS, and again just proves the point of their *combat speed* being greater than their *travel speed.* I really can't see how you could keep missing this simple and plain fact. Their combat speed has always been shown to be much, much greater than their flight abilities. Hell Goku couldn't even use bakujutsu (aka Air Dance, basically their flying ability) until end of 23rd Budokai.


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> That was filler I think...and shouldn't be counted.



Do you know for sure?


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> Do you know for sure?



I'm positive, I just checked and it's not in the original manga, it's filler and thus non canon.


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> I'm positive, I just checked and it's not in the original manga, it's filler and thus non canon.



If it wasn't filler, would it prove goku was ftl before dbz?


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## Shoddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

doesn't matter anyway. lightning ranges from 1/5 to 1/2 light speed. also, since raigen is clearly wrong, why doesn't everyone just IGNORE his posts? you know, pretend they don't exist because they contribute nothing and just drag out dbz wanking?


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> If it wasn't filler, would it prove goku was ftl before dbz?



Lightnings slower than regular light though...he'd be a lightning timer if it wasn't but he wouldn't be lightspeed or above it. But that doesn't matter as it's still filler and can't be used, as the manga jumps from reviving Shenron immediantly to the next Budokai.


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> doesn't matter anyway. lightning ranges from 1/5 to 1/2 light speed. also, since raigen is clearly wrong, why doesn't everyone just IGNORE his posts? you know, pretend they don't exist because they contribute nothing and just drag out dbz wanking?



Lighting travels at the speed of light.  Why do you hear lightning before thunder?  Because lighting = light = light speed and thunder = sound = speed of sound.


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Lightnings slower than regular light though...he'd be a lightning timer if it wasn't but he wouldn't be lightspeed or above it. But that doesn't matter as it's still filler and can't be used, as the manga jumps from reviving Shenron immediantly to the next Budokai.



Lighting travels at the speed of light. Why do you hear lightning before thunder? Because lighting = light = light speed and thunder = sound = speed of sound.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

By the time lighting strikes the ground, it's reduced to around 1/3rd the speed of light roughly or less. It has everything to do with atmospheric pressure and changes in the particles in the air. There are a lot of factors. Anyway, as far as I'm seeing in the manga, Goku didn't dodge lightning on Kami's Lookout. Mr Popo did say that he needed to move as fast as lightning, and demonstrated by speeding behind Goku easily without Goku even seeing him move (and this is the Kid who years earlier made 10 images of himself while fighting Tien).


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> Lighting travels at the speed of light. Why do you hear lightning before thunder? Because lighting = light = light speed and thunder = sound = speed of sound.



First off multi quote is you're friend and should be used to avoid double posts, but as for you're statement Lightning travels at 60'000 m/s while the speed of light is while the speed of light is  186'000 miles per second. Thus Lightning is indeed slower than the speed of light itself


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## Shoddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> Lighting travels at the speed of light. Why do you hear lightning before thunder? Because lighting = light = light speed and thunder = sound = speed of sound.



you see the _light_ of the lightning, but the electrical current itself only moves between 1/5 and 1/2 the speed of light.


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

Are you guys 100% positive?


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 18, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> Are you guys 100% positive?



Yes we're positive, look it up man, hell even Wikipedia will suffice for this.


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

It said that, but it also said something about blue jets that travel 250,000 m/s.


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## Bender (Nov 18, 2009)

It's official DBZ is not FTL

Hulk wins 

Gohan loses

DBZtards say otherwise put them on your ignore list


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## Shoddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

I looked it up years ago MULTIPLE times just to check. also, wikipedia is excellent for things like these. the only times wikipedia sucks is when something with competition comes into play ( someone writing an article about a sports team for example, and exaggerating how good the team is or how bad another team is) or its a topic with that is very controversial. it basically sucks for research papers but its good for quickly finding out some factual info.


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## Shoddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> It said that, but it also said something about blue jets that travel 250,000 m/s.



250,000 meters per seconds is horribly slow compared to light. Light moves at 300,000,*000* meters per second.


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## Archreaper93 (Nov 18, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> 250,000 meters per seconds is horribly slow compared to light. Light moves at 300,000,*000* meters per second.



Yeah, forgot the extra three zeros.  I'm convinced: lighting isn't light speed.
Usually, my austism makes me very knowledgeable about these topics.


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## Raigen (Nov 18, 2009)

I don't know how accurate this is (and frankly quite doubt that any of the Z-haters would enjoy seeing it) but I made a quick inquisition as to Burter's speed in DBZ. Clicked on his desc from Absolute Anime (how canon this is, I can't say) and in it he was described as being ftl. Like I said, you probably won't enjoy it ->


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## Banhammer (Nov 18, 2009)

well marvin, I would like to ask in what way is that suposed to be even remotely impressive, but you probably wouldn't enjoy it


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## Abigail (Nov 18, 2009)

Raigen said:


> I don't know how accurate this is (and frankly quite doubt that any of the Z-haters would enjoy seeing it) but I made a quick inquisition as to Burter's speed in DBZ. Clicked on his desc from Absolute Anime (how canon this is, I can't say) and in it he was described as being ftl. Like I said, you probably won't enjoy it ->



Mkay, and that site is official I take it?

Otherwise that means nothing.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> It's official DBZ is not FTL
> 
> Hulk wins
> 
> ...



lmao and because your dumb ass has provided us with the sufficient points on how Gohan loses right? The whole thread you have came and trolled and answered with a couple useless words that everyone has ignored including those arguing on your side. hahaha how sad.

Gohan does not need to be FTL to rape Hulks ass. I have already provided countless amount of videos showing Gohans speed and how Hulk will not be able to lay a hand on him. Its just funny how you idiots hate DBZ so much that you choose to ignore facts. 

Your arguments have to be the stupidest arguments I have seen. You claim that the feats showing FTL or anything close to it is inconsistent because it only happened once and then for Hulk you argue how he catches silver surfer and breaks an asteroid twice the size of earth. hahahaha so pathetic man so pathetic. If you wanna talk about inconsistencies than at least pit it against inconsistencies instead of making bullshit claims.

NO ONE in this thread arguing for HULK has told us a way of Hulk touching GOHAN. PLEASE explain to me HOW HULK will touch GOHAN. Yes ignore it like you have done this whole thread or just talk shit which is all your good at doing. 

Hulk cant touch GOHAN.
Hulk cant FLY.
Hulk cant block or dodge hundreds of semi-planet buster ki waves heading at hypersonic(FTL debatable) speeds.

HULKS Clap will not do SHIT, as soon has puts his hands together Gohan will be behind him, and yes we all know he is that fast.

Hulk cant block hundreds of hypersonic punches.
(how strong are these punches on average? Strong enough to shatter a large mountain at least)
Hulk defeating SS or Thor is out of the question because they were completely weakened so dont even try to bring in the "oh hulk fought equal to them" bullshit.

Dont bring in his feats of catching quick silver or shattering an asteroid twice the size of earth because they are as inconsistent as DBZ's FTL energy waves and combat speed, so please dont be a hypocrite to defend your own position.

That being said, Hulk does not take this, Hulk will not take this and Hulk is never taking this but you are all free to deepthroat Hulks Large cock which i will admit is bigger than Gohans.


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 18, 2009)

Do you even know who WWHulk is?


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 18, 2009)

Considering that one thread he started, I'd say that's a "No." :rofl


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 18, 2009)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Considering that one thread he started, I'd say that's a "No." :rofl



haha great counter, talk more shit thats all your good at doing. 



> Do you even know who WWHulk is?



Yes but obviously you dont if you think he can do any of the things i stated him unable of.


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## Shoddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

if hulk is super angry and punches gohan, gohan dies. many times over in fact. he was killed by the destruction of earth.


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## Champagne Supernova (Nov 18, 2009)

Seriously OP you have no idea what your talking about so you should shut the fuck up and get out of the OBD.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 18, 2009)

heavy talks non sense..raigen lies...this other dude makes pointless claims

and the around and around we goo


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 18, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> haha great counter, talk more shit thats all your good at doing.


Oh, I'm sorry. You're acting like you actually brought up something that hasn't been shot down in a pile of burning wreckage already. You brought up how you're some sort of "huge" Hulk fan, yet don't know most of the basic shit about the character or some of his most impressive feats that make the DBverse look like bitches.

It's like you thought since this was a Naruto board that we'd all start sucking off Toriyama just as furiously as you and Raigen do. But when we didn't, you start whining, pissing, and moaning just because we throw the anime out when it comes to DB feats and that fact just gets you even more butthurt. 

There's no point in even bothering to take you seriously anymore because all you've been doing is crying like a bitch for the past few days over multiple threads. Seriously, enough's enough.


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## Shoddragon (Nov 18, 2009)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Oh, I'm sorry. You're acting like you actually brought up something that hasn't been shot down in a pile of burning wreckage already. You brought up how you're some sort of "huge" Hulk fan, yet don't know most of the basic shit about the character or some of his most impressive feats that make the DBverse look like bitches.
> 
> It's like you thought since this was a Naruto board that we'd all start sucking off Toriyama just as furiously as you and Raigen do. But when we didn't, you start whining, pissing, and moaning just because we throw the anime out when it comes to DB feats and that fact just gets you even more butthurt.
> 
> *There's no point in even bothering to take you seriously anymore* because all you've been doing is crying like a bitch for the past few days over multiple threads. Seriously, enough's enough.




why did you start taking him seriously in the first place? I mean really dude. Look at the guy's posts. its just raigen-eque dbz wanking.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Nov 19, 2009)

Alright, Heavy Rasengan, this is your first warning, and I hope you learn from it.

Those posts contained large amounts of outright insults and baiting of other members.

If people don't like you, that's just how it is, if you start spatting insults there will be actions taken to moderate such behavior.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> heavy talks non sense..raigen lies...this other dude makes pointless claims
> 
> and the around and around we goo



Immortal your the only one with some decent arguments around here. Im just gonna ignore the others. Seriously though, how do you think Hulk will touch Gohan? Even if lets say he caught people at hypersonic speeds, is his combat speed and reaction time that fast? Because if not then there is no way he could win.


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## Havoc (Nov 19, 2009)

Hulk beat Gladiator.


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## Gohan (Nov 19, 2009)

If Hulk is injuring civilians Gohan will get so pissed hell increase at a rate rivaling that of Hulk. 

Gohan has > solar system level busting kamehameha.

Gohan can fly and is way faster than Hulk.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 19, 2009)

Havoc said:


> Hulk beat Gladiator.




that's true but he did so by tossing him into radiation that he was weak too



also..greg paks..to hulk what loeb is to superman..he ruins all he touches..and his stuff should be viewed with a grain of salt

but yeah..when you can hang in the top tier leagues like hulk...can and even fuck some of them up..your too much for Z guys

and what ever..whether or not you consider Paks..umm "writing?" usable or not does not really matter at all in terms of who wins ...Hulk has sufficient reaction time feats to grab...gohan and utterly man handle him

since ya know..he isn't even remotely..lightspeed much less FTL


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## Gohan (Nov 19, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that's true but he did so by tossing him into radiation that he was weak too
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mystic is way faster than SSJ 1 Gotenks who demonstrated a relativistic feat. 

And Hulk grabs fast people like how spider man blitz thor. Most of the comic book characters all demonstrate these fly at faster than light speed but rarely do we see them fight at lightspeed or anything.


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## Lina Inverse (Nov 19, 2009)

Gohan said:


> Gohan has > solar system level busting kamehameha.


O RLY?


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## Lucifeller (Nov 19, 2009)

If this is World War Hulk, let's not forget that at the end of the series, just by WALKING, he was breaking apart the entire North American tectonic plaque - as in, the chunk of rock that the whole goddamn thing was on. It's even stated in the comic during conversation in one panel ("Two more steps like that and we're losing the entire West Coast, sir"). And keep in mind Hulk was struggling to hold back at that point and even lowered his defenses to let Iron Man take a potshot at him.

...and then it took concentrated orbital bombardment from massively powerful alien satellites (Shi'ar tech, remember? Same guys who use the M'Kraan crystal, a reality altering artifact, to power their shit) to finally put him down, and it only worked because he ALLOWED it.

Seriously, Gohan isn't killing him with his ki blasts. Especially not in bloodlusted state. And even if Gohan dodged, that'd just make him madder... which would make him stronger... which would get to the point where he'd just break the planet in half by accident... which means the absolute best Gohan can hope for is a tie, because he can't breathe in space and doesn't have IT.


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## Havoc (Nov 19, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that's true but he did so by tossing him into radiation that he was weak too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He was able to hit Glads, which was my point, and he was beating Glads before he threw him into the reactor.

I don't think Pak was even writing Hulk then.  Hulk has been hitting top tiers basically his whole "career".


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## Raigen (Nov 19, 2009)

Hulk doesn't have time to get mad. The speed difference here is so vast it's not funny. Hulk hitting people faster than him is PIS, everyone knows it. We see it all the time. Hulk's not landing a hit no matter how much you may want him to. Gohan will rain down more blows than even Reed could count on a good day. Gohan can do to Hulk what Hulk did to wolverine; bat around his skull enough to mush his brain and make him unconscious. And that's if he's feeling like he only needs to knock Hulk out instead of vaporizing him.

Vaporizing is an option and can't be dismissed. Mosty-dead Freeza wasn't vaped by a planet exploding, but got diced and turned to cinders by Mirai Trunks who doesn't even compare to the kinda power Mystic Gohan had. He was effectively stronger than a SS3 Goku. Either way he only needs base-level power for this. Including the anime isn't necessary unless you want Gohan causing quakes and tremors because of nervous foot-tapping (yes, he did this in the Great Saiyaman saga in the anime. He was tapping his foot, worried about Videl, and the whole school was shaking as a side-effect).


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## Fang (Nov 19, 2009)

Raigen said:


> About 7:30 in, Cell Super Kamehameha. Gohan counters it easily.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kF8zXnpzAU[/YOUTUBE]



Cute fantasy: by Gohan countering easily he needs Vegeta to distract and throw Super Perfect Cell off balance to beat him after a Ki duel which he was losing?

That is casually?


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## Havoc (Nov 19, 2009)

WWH is already mad, he doesn't need to build up anger.

Hulk hitting people isn't pis, he does it in every one of his appearances since his creation. 

Gohan doesn't even have the strength to punch him into unconsciousness.


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## Federer (Nov 19, 2009)

Hulk doesn't need time to get angry/strong, he can do that shit in a heartbeat. And he utterly destroys Gohan.


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## Raigen (Nov 19, 2009)

TWF said:


> Cute fantasy: by Gohan countering easily he needs Vegeta to distract and throw Super Perfect Cell off balance to beat him after a Ki duel which he was losing?
> 
> That is casually?



You're thinking later in the fight after Cell self-destructed, survived and regenerated with his Saiyan cells making him many times stronger from surviving a fatal/near-fatal wound, regenerating back to his Perfect Form (now as Super Perfect with the powerup) and when he did he wounded Gohan first off (who had powered down to SS1) and then killed Trunks. Gohan's injury weakened him and he then had to contend with a completely refreshed Cell who was stronger than before, and fight with only one arm.

This seems to be a trend with you; ignoring key points and leaving out details for the sole purpose of bashing on someone. If you have something to show, then show it. If not, then don't just blindly attack people. What I showed what was SS2 Gohan did to Cell after just gaining that level, and it shows him making Cell his bitch. Fact was he was holding back and just toying with Cell until he could knock Android #18 out of him (which he did).


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

Havoc said:


> WWH is already mad, he doesn't need to build up anger.
> 
> Hulk hitting people isn't pis, he does it in every one of his appearances since his creation.
> 
> Gohan doesn't even have the strength to punch him into unconsciousness.



I know that, I am not underestimating Hulks strength at all. I have read WWH countless times and I know he is a furious monster. But the main problem that i see in this fight is the difference of speed. For example, that video i posted a couple pages ago with SSJ2 Gohan fighting the Junior cells. His speed feat was incredible, it seemed like he was teleporting because he was so fast. I just dont see how Hulk can deal with hypersonic combat speed and reaction. That is my only problem. I do agree with you that when Hulk becomes really mad, one of his punches could prove a fatal blow but do you really think it would reach there? Gohans punches could easily level a large mountain, his punches along with his hypersonic speed on Hulks head will be fatal. Plus a Super Kamehameha and I think that could possibly end it. Energy waves in DBZ whether they are planet busters or not cause immense damage. 

That is one scenario and if you do not see it working then how about this one. Gohan who can fly is a reasonable distance away from hulk in the sky and continuously launches ki waves. Maybe that wouldnt cause fatal damage to Hulk but it could injure him to the point where one super kamehameha could do the trick.

What do you think?


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 19, 2009)

Gohan said:


> Gohan has > solar system level busting kamehameha.



Seriously?  I know DB are casual planet busters without holding back, but do you even know what the jump from planet busting to solar system level busting is?

The distance from Earth to the Sun is 1 AU - 150 million kilometers.  That's 150,000,000,000 meters.  Earth's diameter is 12,756,000 meters.  Between Earth and the Sun, you can fit 11,759 Earths in a straight line (roughly).

Now, the distance from the Sun to Neptune is about 30 AU.  Between the Sun and Neptune can fit 352,770 Earths (roughly).

Now, that's roughly the diameter of our solar system _assuming_ we stop at Neptune.  So, let's just take flat surface area, with 352,770 Earths as the radius.  352,770^2*pi = 4.36547776 × 10^11.  That's roughly 43,654,776,000 Earths to fill up our solar system - _assuming it was flat_ and _not_ squashed sphere.  That's the size difference of Earth vs Solar System.

So, casual planet busting is believable.  You wanna make the jump to solar system busting?  That jump would be saying casual building buster -> planet buster


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 19, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> I know that, I am not underestimating Hulks strength at all. I have read WWH countless times and I know he is a furious monster. But the main problem that i see in this fight is the difference of speed. For example, that video i posted a couple pages ago with SSJ2 Gohan fighting the Junior cells. His speed feat was incredible, it seemed like he was teleporting because he was so fast. I just dont see how Hulk can deal with hypersonic combat speed and reaction. That is my only problem. I do agree with you that when Hulk becomes really mad, one of his punches could prove a fatal blow but do you really think it would reach there? Gohans punches could easily level a large mountain, his punches along with his hypersonic speed on Hulks head will be fatal. Plus a Super Kamehameha and I think that could possibly end it. Energy waves in DBZ whether they are planet busters or not cause immense damage.
> 
> That is one scenario and if you do not see it working then how about this one. Gohan who can fly is a reasonable distance away from hulk in the sky and continuously launches ki waves. Maybe that wouldnt cause fatal damage to Hulk but it could injure him to the point where one super kamehameha could do the trick.
> 
> What do you think?



I think you've been ignoring everything we've said. I given feats even and I'll point this out one last time.

-Hulk has enough strength feats to kill Gohan in one or two punches
-Gohan will try melee first like all Z fighters and match strength
-Hulk has enough stamina to outlast anyone in DBZ
-Hulk has tanking feats to tank everything Gohan throws

WWH is the 2nd strongest Hulk and so he gets all of weaker Hulk versions feats but stronger. You've read WWH yet you still think Gohan can win?

Gohan be faster and have long range too bad Hulk will tank and outlast Gohan and then kill him. This is going to happen 100% Gohan is'nt throwing Hulk out of Orbit with a Kamehameha, Hulk already threw android out of orbit back in the day. Hulk has hit fast characters like quicksilver and Gladiator.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> I think you've been ignoring everything we've said. I given feats even and I'll point this out one last time.
> 
> -Hulk has enough strength feats to kill Gohan in one or two punches
> -Gohan will try melee first like all Z fighters and match strength
> ...



Hulk at base level would not be able to take out Gohan in a few punches. When he first landed on earth in WWH, his punches created holes in the ground but that is it. Gohan can take hundreds of those.  At base level their phsyical abilities are even. Hulk TAGGED quicksilver, and this only happened ONCE, even people on your side agree that this is an inconsistency and since we are not including inconsistencies of DBZ then we are not including those of WWH either. This also applies to Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size of earth. Also Hulk didnt hit Gladiator when Gladiator was going at light speed...Please dont try to mislead me. Gladiator wasnt even going fast at all when Hulk hit him...

Now that being said, I too will not claim that Gohan is ftl in any way. But I will maintain that he is hypersonic and everyone should agree to that. Hulk is nothing close to hypersonic, especially in combat.  Now if Gohan can destroy large mountains with his punches(tell me if you disagree) and is at a hypersonic speed level, then punches to Hulks head will do great damage maybe even enough to leave him unconscious. If not then yes Hulk will get more mad and more mad and his powers will increase BUT he is still not touching Gohan. 

What does Hulk throwing android out of the orbit got to do with Gohans ki beam takin Hulk out of the orbit? I see no correlation between that and I really do think that a Super Kamehameha WILL take Hulk out into space, he may be able to survive the blast but he cannot stop the force in which it is released. Hulk will tank many of Gohans ki waves but he cannot tank all! that is the point im trying to make. Do you really think Hulk will just stand there and take every single one of Gohans concentrated semi-planet busters? Come on man  that is over exaggerating.

Even if Hulk outlasts him, I still see no way of him touching Gohan. Its not lie Gohan will be like "ok im tired, im gonna come down now and let you punch me", he still has his speed and flight advantage. 

Yes I have read WWH and i STILL think Gohan would win...why is it impossible to read a comic and not have an alternate opinion?

And oh yea, Hulk cannot outlast and DBZ characters, some have the same amount of stamina as him. Also do you still think Hulk can beat ANYONE in DB verse?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 19, 2009)

Havoc said:


> He was able to hit Glads, which was my point, and he was beating Glads before he threw him into the reactor.
> 
> I don't think Pak was even writing Hulk then.  Hulk has been hitting top tiers basically his whole "career".



oh totally not disputing that he's been a tier one buster all the time

but as for the story pak did write it iirc ..and Gladz had blown hulks chest open earlier...hulks hand inexplicably...got stronger then his chest and..the rest is history

but yeah...if he can tag even a half assed written gladz he can man handle Gohan reacting to some one...who by comparison is a snail should be no trouble for hulk


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 19, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Hulk at base level would not be able to take out Gohan in a few punches. When he first landed on earth in WWH, his punches created holes in the ground but that is it. Gohan can take hundreds of those.  At base level their phsyical abilities are even. Hulk TAGGED quicksilver, and this only happened ONCE, even people on your side agree that this is an inconsistency and since we are not including inconsistencies of DBZ then we are not including those of WWH either. This also applies to Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size of earth. Also Hulk didnt hit Gladiator when Gladiator was going at light speed...Please dont try to mislead me. Gladiator wasnt even going fast at all when Hulk hit him...



Why is Hulk destroying an asteroid twice the size of Earth an inconsistency? He needed some rocket boosters to launch him but he did the rest. I'm not arguing about Gohan being mach 800+, he is fast I never said otherwise. But by your logic DB characters are'nt moving at hypersonics either when in combat and not flying. You may not like Hulk being fast but he's fought fast opponents who should have lightspeed+ movement even dodging speed. You're going to have prove the character was'nt going lightspeed.

Mislead you?  No, just telling you to stop acting like Hulk will loose because of speed disadvantage or that he's as slow you think. Hulk has fought Thor, Senty, Surfer(Though that Surfer was trapped on Earth by Galactus), Hercules, Gladiator etc. Besides what makes you think Gohan won't try melee like those other characters? I was not aware Gohan loved beamspamming. He did'nt do that to Buu or Cell. He'll try fists first. GG



> Now that being said, I too will not claim that Gohan is ftl in any way. But I will maintain that he is hypersonic and everyone should agree to that. Hulk is nothing close to hypersonic, especially in combat.  Now if Gohan can destroy large mountains with his punches(tell me if you disagree) and is at a hypersonic speed level, then punches to Hulks head will do great damage maybe even enough to leave him unconscious. If not then yes Hulk will get more mad and more mad and his powers will increase BUT he is still not touching Gohan



Gohan punching mountains is'nt impressive compared to his opponent who was busting mountains in the early days sometimes as collateral damage. And just how long do you think Gohan will be able to keep spamming blasts and flying and dodging? Hulk can just standstill and keep getting hit till Gohan gets tired. His stamina and durability feats are there, I mentioned some a page or two back yet you keep ignoring them.



> What does Hulk throwing android out of the orbit got to do with Gohans ki beam takin Hulk out of the orbit? I see no correlation between that and I really do think that a Super Kamehameha WILL take Hulk out into space, he may be able to survive the blast but he cannot stop the force in which it is released. Hulk will tank many of Gohans ki waves but he cannot tank all! that is the point im trying to make. Do you really think Hulk will just stand there and take every single one of Gohans concentrated semi-planet busters? Come on man  that is over exaggerating



Hulk having the strength to send a mammoth Android into outerspace in his early days does'nt imply he has the strength to hold back the Kamehameha's force? Come on man, Vegeta did'nt get sent into orbit despite his Garlick Gun being pushed back by Goku's Kamehameha. Vegeta at that point does'nt have Hulk level strength. Hulk can't tank all? He's survived much worse. But now you'll cry about PIS I'm sure. 



> Hulk outlasts him, I still see no way of him touching Gohan. Its not lie Gohan will be like "ok im tired, im gonna come down now and let you punch me", he still has his speed and flight advantage



Yes a Tired Gohan who has used up all of his power and failed will still survive against someone who can go for days? Gohan will have no choice but to run away to avoid the beating which is BFR.



> ave read WWH and i STILL think Gohan would win...why is it impossible to read a comic and not have an alternate opinion?



You not only allowed for anime feats to make Gohan stronger but you keep ignoring WWH is the second strongest version of the Hulk and gets all the feats of tanking and strength as his weaker versions. 

Opinion is'nt fact. You clearly are not aware of all of Hulk's tanking feats or strength feats. Punching through a timestorm is absurd. Gohan can't survive someone who has such insane feats of strength.


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## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

I remember one moment when Hulk lifted an island from the ocean floor and began to swim with it. Personally, I find it a bit humorous.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 19, 2009)

if we gonna go with the idea of hulk throwing asteroid distroying punch the first minutes of the fight then i guess that i could go on saiying that gotens would use his solar system blasting kamehameha in the first seconds of the fight i dont going to debate the speed of gohan but you guy should realize he is faster than base hulk and that he was able after being injure and with only one arm (even do it is require to use both hands to do a proper kamehameha)he was able with one atack to overpower an solar system blasting attack and destroy the perfect cell (doesnt that sounds familiar) and curve the attack (which needs concentration and chi if remember correctly) so it doesnt destroy the earth


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## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> if we gonna go with the idea of hulk throwing asteroid distroying punch the first minutes of the fight then i guess that i could go on saiying that gotens would use his solar system blasting kamehameha in the first seconds of the fight i dont going to debate the speed of gohan but you guy should realize he is faster than base hulk and that he was able after being injure and with only one arm (even do it is require to use both hands to do a proper kamehameha)he was able with one atack to overpower an *solar system blasting attack *and destroy the perfect cell (doesnt that sounds familiar) and curve the attack (which needs concentration and chi if remember correctly) so it doesnt destroy the earth



It's not clear if whether it was a solar system-busting blast or not, since Cell doesn't possess previous feats of destruction of that magnitude.


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## Federer (Nov 19, 2009)

It seems like Gohan fans have time, well use your time well and look at some feats from the Incredible Hulk:





































this



this

this

this


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 19, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> if we gonna go with the idea of hulk throwing asteroid distroying punch the first minutes of the fight then i guess that i could go on saiying that gotens would use his solar system blasting kamehameha in the first seconds of the fight i dont going to debate the speed of gohan but you guy should realize he is faster than base hulk and that he was able after being injure and with only one arm (even do it is require to use both hands to do a proper kamehameha)he was able with one atack to overpower an solar system blasting attack and destroy the perfect cell (doesnt that sounds familiar) and curve the attack (which needs concentration and chi if remember correctly) so it doesnt destroy the earth



Oh jesus another one...

Okay first off Gohan can not Solar system bust, neither can Cell, since it was not actually proven or shown, at most Gohan's a planet buster, irregardless of what Raigen and Rasengan say. 

I still feel like Hulk could win this, it's his second strongest form afterall (Right behind War Hulk who was amped up with Celestial tech), and it's not like he can't murder the planet as well (There's a reason why his followers called him World Breaker) and there's still Hulk's regen to consider.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

> Why is Hulk destroying an asteroid twice the size of Earth an inconsistency? He needed some rocket boosters to launch him but he did the rest. I'm not arguing about Gohan being mach 800+, he is fast I never said otherwise. But by your logic DB characters are'nt moving at hypersonics either when in combat and not flying. You may not like Hulk being fast but he's fought fast opponents who should have lightspeed+ movement even dodging speed. You're going to have prove the character was'nt going lightspeed.



When has he ever displayed the feat of destroying an object twice the size of earth aside from that? None right so yes it is an inconsistency. 
Yes they are moving at hypersonic speed, even narcissus who is on your side maintained that they fight at hypersonic speeds. It doesnt matter if he fought opponents with lightspeed+movement if they werent showing that movement while fighting him.... You claimed that he fought opponents with lightspeed+ attributes so you prove to me that he did. 



> Mislead you?  No, just telling you to stop acting like Hulk will loose because of speed disadvantage or that he's as slow you think. Hulk has fought Thor, Senty, Surfer(Though that Surfer was trapped on Earth by Galactus), Hercules, Gladiator etc. Besides what makes you think Gohan won't try melee like those other characters? I was not aware Gohan loved beamspamming. He did'nt do that to Buu or Cell. He'll try fists first. GG



But he will lose because of speed disadvantage....and he is as slow as i think....Sentry is generally slow so that is not a feat and unless Hulk blocked Thors lightspeed+ hammer or showed at all that he fought on par with Thor then that doesnt matter. You dont get it do you, it does not matter who he fights if they are weakened down. Thor and Surfer can rape Hulk in a second, so its not an argument to say "oh Hulk fought them so hes that good". No Hulk fought a completely weakened down version of them and that is hardly a feat at all. Again, he did not fight on par with Gladiators speed....Show me where Hulk was dodgeing and reacting to lightspeed movements and I will concede. 

When he realizes that Hulks punches are that powerful then he will beamspam. As I said before, WWHulks base form does not have enough strength to KILL Gohan. When Hulk landed on Earth his punches were mearly making holes in the ground, that is not enough to kill Gohan. When Hulk gets super angry then yes his punches will come with that fatality but the battle will be long done before then.



> Gohan punching mountains is'nt impressive compared to his opponent who was busting mountains in the early days sometimes as collateral damage. And just how long do you think Gohan will be able to keep spamming blasts and flying and dodging? Hulk can just standstill and keep getting hit till Gohan gets tired. His stamina and durability feats are there, I mentioned some a page or two back yet you keep ignoring them.



I was talking about STRENGTH feat. Im saying each of his punches has the power to shatter large mountains at the least.  Yes I agree with you that his stamina feats are there but I dont think his durability feats are there. As durable as he may be, he cannot glance of concentrated semi-planet buster waves. I havent ignored anything, please tell me something that I have ignored and I will gladly answer.




> Hulk having the strength to send a mammoth Android into outerspace in his early days does'nt imply he has the strength to hold back the Kamehameha's force? Come on man, Vegeta did'nt get sent into orbit despite his Garlick Gun being pushed back by Goku's Kamehameha. Vegeta at that point does'nt have Hulk level strength. Hulk can't tank all? He's survived much worse. But now you'll cry about PIS I'm sure.



No, the kamehameha force goes at tremendous speeds which will increase the force itself. No, Vegeta WOULD have been sent to orbit if he did not fall out of the beams range. Bad point.  When did I say Hulk cant tank at all? I didnt once state that he cant tank at all, stop making up bullshit. I stated that Hulk cannot tank NUMEROUS concentrated semi-planet busters.





> Yes a Tired Gohan who has used up all of his power and failed will still survive against someone who can go for days? Gohan will have no choice but to run away to avoid the beating which is BFR.



If the fight gets dragged on to that extent then yes i admit that would be the outcome but it will end long before then.



> You not only allowed for anime feats to make Gohan stronger but you keep ignoring WWH is the second strongest version of the Hulk and gets all the feats of tanking and strength as his weaker versions.



Dont bring in that bullshit with me, I am allowing you to use sources aside from WWH as well. None of what you said has been shown by WWH but I am still allowing other sources to be put in so dont give me that allowing anime bullshit. By default no he does not get all the feats of tanking and strength as his weaker versions, he gets the tanking and strength that is shown in WWH but since I am using anime I am allowing you to bring in other sources.




> Opinion is'nt fact. You clearly are not aware of all of Hulk's tanking feats or strength feats. Punching through a timestorm is absurd. Gohan can't survive someone who has such insane feats of strength.



Yes he cant, unless Hulk is defeated by the time he is able to show such feats...


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

Juracule Mihawk said:


> It seems like Gohan fans have time, well use your time well and look at some feats from the Incredible Hulk:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



None of that shows his lightspeed+ combat speed and reaction time bro

Ill put this video on again, correct me or tell my Hulk has even remotely this type of speed.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqz5RSdQ0Kw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Federer (Nov 19, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> None of that shows his lightspeed+ combat speed and reaction time bro
> 
> Ill put this video on again, correct me or tell my Hulk has even remotely this type of speed.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqz5RSdQ0Kw[/YOUTUBE]





Video? Well, I can't beat that, since Radditz is already FTL in the dub, remember. 

Hulk has had many fights with Thor, where he often wins, loses and ties with him. Thor solo's DB verse, what makes you even think that Gohan, fucking Gohan has a chance? My god.

And ps: I have a life, I'm not going to search for every feat from one character, if you know nothing about the Hulk, than don't reply in this thread.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 19, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> None of that shows his lightspeed+ combat speed and reaction time bro



No but it does show his regen, him moving an entire island from the bottom of the ocean, and him going toe to toe with Marvel Hercules, who himself is able to wreck entire planets, by just armwrestling with Thor. and it also shows him survivng in space and moving tectonic plates and surviving the heat of a planet's core. 

Stop downplaying crap.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 19, 2009)

so you think Gohan can survive even one punch from the Hulk? Hulk grabs Gohan and pounds hm even after he's dead. Gohan dies.

EDIT You ask why other feats work for Hulk but not Gohan? Because WWH gets powerscaling from his weaker forms. Anime DB characters are faster and stronger than their manga counterparts. Vegeta blows a planet up with his finger in episode 10. You're blatantly trying to overpower Gohan by allowing powerscaling from already more overpowered characters. If this was manga Gohan he'd be screwerd worse.

WWH still wins despite your lame attempt. Shows how overpowered he is eh?


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

Juracule Mihawk said:


> Video? Well, I can't beat that, since Radditz is already FTL in the dub, remember.
> 
> Hulk has had many fights with Thor, where he often wins, loses and ties with him. Thor solo's DB verse, what makes you even think that Gohan, fucking Gohan has a chance? My god.
> 
> And ps: I have a life, I'm not going to search for every feat from one character, if you know nothing about the Hulk, than don't reply in this thread.



LOL are you kidding me man? Thor solo's DB verse at his maximum feats and power. HULK DOES NOT STAND A SECOND AGAINST THOR! What a stupid argument...Thor can beat him which means HULK can too! This isnt preschool anymore form some arguments. Hulk doesnt stand a chance against Thor if we use ALL of Thors feats...Hulk wins, loses and ties against a very very very weakened down Thor and everyone will agree on this. 

I created this thread, and if you are not gonna look for evidence then dont post in my thread. bye.


----------



## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> No but it does show his regen, him moving an entire island from the bottom of the ocean, and him going toe to toe with Marvel Hercules, who himself is able to wreck entire planets, by just *armwrestling with Thor*. and it also shows him survivng in space and moving tectonic plates and surviving the heat of a planet's core.
> 
> Stop downplaying crap.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 19, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> When has he ever displayed the feat of destroying an object twice the size of earth aside from that? None right so yes it is an inconsistency.



your joking right? Hulks shattered shit like that several times

fuck he caused a chain reaction that destroyed a galaxy and collapsed an entire dimension once..in a hard knocks brawl with another top tier brick..

so what are you getting at?

hell He's at least matched stupid drax in power...and stupid draxs shockwaves destroyed planets 


> Yes they are moving at hypersonic speed, even narcissus who is on your side maintained that they fight at hypersonic speeds. It doesnt matter if he fought opponents with lightspeed+movement if they werent showing that movement while fighting him.... You claimed that he fought opponents with lightspeed+ attributes so you prove to me that he did.



hulks tagged enough hyper sonics to give him reaction time on the "i can kill gohan like nothing"


there really isn't anything else to say you Gohan and raigen and the new guy are just so mind bogglingly biased and agressive and ignoring shit that theres just no point


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> No but it does show his regen, him moving an entire island from the bottom of the ocean, and him going toe to toe with Marvel Hercules, who himself is able to wreck entire planets, by just armwrestling with Thor. and it also shows him survivng in space and moving tectonic plates and surviving the heat of a planet's core.
> 
> Stop downplaying crap.



which is all useless if he cant react or hit someone. I am aware of his regen and how he did it when reduced to the skeletal state, I just think Gohan with his ki waves may put him beyond that. I dont care who he fights if they are weakened down to suit his weaknesses, that is just stupid and pathetic. 



> so you think Gohan can survive even one punch from the Hulk? Hulk grabs Gohan and pounds hm even after he's dead. Gohan dies.



Bro are you reading what im saying? I said that in BASE form Gohan CAN but if HULK is pushed to the extent in which your are telling me then NO he cant.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 19, 2009)

WWH is always angry, I remember him practically foaming in the mouth against Juggernaut.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> your joking right? Hulks shattered shit like that several times
> 
> fuck he caused a chain reaction that destroyed a galaxy and collapsed an entire dimension once..in a hard knocks brawl with another top tier brick..
> 
> ...



Yeah..a chain reaction....

HULK has not fought on par with somone of that speed when it comes to combat and reaction. Can Hulk punch at hypersonic speeds? No he cant. 

WTF, I am not being biased and agressive at ALL. I am trying to have a civilized debate about a topic and I get people saying "your a dumbfuck he wins you lose" "he rapes your an idiot" 
Like wtf? 

I am not being biased, did i say gohan STOMPS? no i didnt, my argument is that Gohan can defeat him before Hulk reaches that level of madness or else yes hulks punches WOULD kill him. You guys are the ones that are like ooo HULK STOMPS, GOHAN HAS NO CHANCE. So dont talk to be about aggressiveness or bias.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 19, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> WWH is always angry, I remember him practically foaming in the mouth against Juggernaut.



Can you tell me how to insert scans that I have saved on my comp? Because when he first came to earth, he punched the ground and created a large hole, Gohan can take that level strength in the beginning.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 19, 2009)

You''ll have to save them on imageshack or something then upload them here.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 19, 2009)

one who is dismissing evidence and ignoring feats...

does not a civil debate make


----------



## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 19, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> HULK has not fought on par with somone of that speed when it comes to combat and reaction. Can Hulk punch at hypersonic speeds? No he cant.
> 
> I am not being biased, did i say gohan STOMPS? no i didnt, my argument is that Gohan can defeat him before Hulk reaches that level of madness or else yes hulks punches WOULD kill him. You guys are the ones that are like ooo HULK STOMPS, GOHAN HAS NO CHANCE. So dont talk to be about aggressiveness or bias.



You don't need to punch at hypersonic speeds to hit someone moving really really fast.  You know, the same way baseball players don't swing at the same speed as the baseball is thrown...

OBD rules basically state that if a match is made, the characters start at their peak performance and are bloodlusted with some CIS elements involved unless otherwise stated.  So wouldn't this be peak WWHulk?  Forget about "reaching that level of madness," shouldn't he already be there....


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 19, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> I know that, I am not underestimating Hulks strength at all. I have read WWH countless times and I know he is a furious monster. But the main problem that i see in this fight is the difference of speed. For example, that video i posted a couple pages ago with SSJ2 Gohan fighting the Junior cells. His speed feat was incredible, it seemed like he was teleporting because he was so fast. I just dont see how Hulk can deal with hypersonic combat speed and reaction. That is my only problem. I do agree with you that when Hulk becomes really mad, one of his punches could prove a fatal blow but do you really think it would reach there? Gohans punches could easily level a large mountain, his punches along with his hypersonic speed on Hulks head will be fatal. Plus a Super Kamehameha and I think that could possibly end it. Energy waves in DBZ whether they are planet busters or not cause immense damage.
> 
> That is one scenario and if you do not see it working then how about this one. Gohan who can fly is a reasonable distance away from hulk in the sky and continuously launches ki waves. Maybe that wouldnt cause fatal damage to Hulk but it could injure him to the point where one super kamehameha could do the trick.
> 
> What do you think?



perhaps you should actually do your research and see what the hulk has tanked . Gohan's punches level a large mountain? thats a huge fanboy fantasy. noone's punches in dragonball Z have come anywhere near even destroying a SMALL mountain. a large mountain would be something like everest, and gohan is ABSOLUTELY NOT destroying it with 1 punch dude.

GOhan's attacks are going to do NOTHING to the hulk, much less world war hulk. making hulk even madder doesn't help either. since the ki attacks are going to just do nothing, gohan is going to HAVE to try beating down hulk,  gohan is never going to just try to destroy a whole planet. then in every fight they would just planet bust. besides, then GOHAN WOULD DIE. I think the point of a fight is to survive, not kill yourself as well.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 19, 2009)

It's funny watching people talk about "base Hulk" when they don't realize that Hulk from WWH *was* the "base" Hulk.


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 19, 2009)

indeed. I am just sitting here in this thread waiting to laugh more with the DBZ wank and hyperbole.


----------



## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

HEY GUYS LETS USE FILLER AS CANNONZ


----------



## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

For what reason, I might ask?


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 19, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> For what reason, I might ask?



the user above you was being sarcastic .


----------



## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

Can't say I don't deserve it.


----------



## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

next thing you know they will say broly or krillian can solo the jla vers-


OH WAIT


----------



## Bender (Nov 19, 2009)

Is this thread still going on?


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 19, 2009)

hammer said:


> next thing you know they will say broly or krillian can solo the jla vers-
> 
> 
> OH WAIT



o gawd. he didn't say they could solo the JLA verse did he?


----------



## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> o gawd. he didn't say they could solo the JLA verse did he?



theres a thread for each of them hell in the broly one they all get 3 days prep and apparently broly blows up planet and wisn even though amazo isnt on earth neither is the latern core


we should out right ban dbz vs any usa comic verse


----------



## Bender (Nov 19, 2009)

@

the amount bullshit of all the posts  DBZtards Raigen and H_R in this thread.

My sides ...  

And here I thought watching episodes of Family Guy are funny  

What's next 

Vegeta can beat Darkseid?


----------



## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> @
> 
> the amount bullshit of all the posts  DBZtards Raigen and H_R in this thread.
> 
> ...



Krillin will rape Thanos?


----------



## Havoc (Nov 19, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh totally not disputing that he's been a tier one buster all the time
> 
> but as for the story pak did write it iirc ..and Gladz had blown hulks chest open earlier...hulks hand inexplicably...got stronger then his chest and..the rest is history
> 
> but yeah...if he can tag even a half assed written gladz he can man handle Gohan reacting to some one...who by comparison is a snail should be no trouble for hulk



Well it's not that his hand was stronger, but it was right over Glads eyes so some of the energy went back and hurt him.

Pak started righting Hulk in late 2000, I'm pretty sure this fight was in the 90's or early 2000's at the latest.


----------



## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> Krillin will rape Thanos?



theres already krillian vs jla and apparently he planet busts and wns


----------



## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

I saw it, surprising how Amazo is over-looked.


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 19, 2009)

hammer said:


> theres a thread for each of them hell in the broly one they all get 3 days prep and apparently broly blows up planet and wisn even though amazo isnt on earth neither is the latern core



Right. Sense neither are the justice league...


----------



## Havoc (Nov 19, 2009)

There are 4 Lanterns in the JL.

Were they not included in the thread?


----------



## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

whould i post in the meta-dome to reguest dbz vs comic verse be banned outside the joke dome?


no havoc they were overlooked

so was batmans prep which is real sinc ehe egts 3 days and knows the lantern core so he chould get another ring


and amazos overlooked


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 19, 2009)

it won't work, and it is a stupid idea.


----------



## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

how is it stupid all  have seen so far is using random calculation or filler


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 19, 2009)

The only way you'll get rid of that is by removing DBZ all together. actually, that won't work. you get this kind of argument from every freaking series. Banning all comiv vs DBZ battels removes some interesting possibilities, like Mr. Satan vs Green Goblin.In fact...


----------



## hammer (Nov 19, 2009)

hadomaru said:


> The only way you'll get rid of that is by removing DBZ all together. actually, that won't work. you get this kind of argument from every freaking series. Banning all comiv vs DBZ battels removes some interesting possibilities, like Mr. Satan vs Green Goblin.In fact...



obviously that would be a joke battledome topic


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 19, 2009)

Not really, Mr. Satan is wall level like Goblin.


----------



## Archreaper93 (Nov 19, 2009)

So...can we make this an official hulk victory?
I mean, I LOVE DBZ, but I know when they lose (just don't like it when they lose).
@Heavy_Rasengan and Raigen:  I love DBZ just as much as you do, but you guys should know when to admit a loss.  no one can win all the time. hulk wins this one.
Unless gohan can completely vaporize him like he did to cell, hulk will come back mad.
I only have two words for what happens after that:  HULK SMASH!!!!!!


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 19, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> It's not clear if whether it was a solar system-busting blast or not, since Cell doesn't possess previous feats of destruction of that magnitude.


but remember he just had recuperate from a virtual death by regenerating (he has saiyan genes which mean if he recuperates from a beat much more a tecnical death he comes  back exponentially stronger) and the fact that he was in perfect mode *without the androids* ( which he needs to be in perfect mode) do show he is power had increase vastly therefore it wouldn't be surprising that he comes back with power enough to blast the galaxy


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 19, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> but remember he just had recuperate from a virtual death by regenerating (he has saiyan genes which mean if he recuperates from a beat much more a tecnical death he comes  back exponentially stronger) and the fact that he was in perfect mode *without the androids* ( which he needs to be in perfect mode) do show he is power had increase vastly therefore it wouldn't be surprising that he comes back with power enough to blast the galaxy



That's speculation, we can't use things that aren't shown. does anybody even bother to read the rules.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 19, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> but remember he just had recuperate from a virtual death by regenerating (he has saiyan genes which mean if he recuperates from a beat much more a tecnical death he comes  back exponentially stronger) and the fact that he was in perfect mode *without the androids* ( which he needs to be in perfect mode) do show he is power had increase vastly therefore it wouldn't be surprising that he comes back with power enough to blast the galaxy





hammer said:


> whould i post in the meta-dome to reguest dbz vs comic verse be banned outside the joke dome?


why dbz characters has power enough to fight some if not almost all of the most powerfull characters in comics book


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 19, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> why dbz characters has power enough to fight some if not almost all of the most powerfull characters in comics book



No they don't, they get trumped almost as soon they start meeting cosmics, hell there are people on earth who can still beat them including Hulk you get Hercules, Thor, and several others.

I mean christ are you telling me they can somehow kill Beyonder who was Nigh-Omnipotent before he was retconned.


----------



## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> why dbz characters has power enough to fight some if not almost all of the most powerfull characters in comics book



No, they're outclassed in every category.


----------



## Archreaper93 (Nov 19, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> why dbz characters has power enough to fight some if not almost all of the most powerfull characters in comics book



I love DBZ, and even I don't think they could beat the likes of Imperiex, Galactus, Anit-Monitor, etc.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 19, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> I love DBZ, and even I don't think they could beat the likes of Imperiex, Galactus, Anit-Monitor, etc.



Dragonball doesn't even make it to them...


----------



## Archreaper93 (Nov 19, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Dragonball doesn't even make it to them...



Exactly, why do you think I said they would win?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 19, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> I love DBZ, and even I don't think they could beat the likes of Imperiex, Galactus, Anit-Monitor, etc.


that why i left the open possibility  clearly people like galactus anit-monitor should be left to the lord of nightmares 
who creates gods


----------



## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

You have Strange(Classic), Superman, Thor, Wonderwoman, Magneto, Flash,etc.
They would be lucky to survive 10 seconds.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 19, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> You have Strange(Classic), Superman, Thor, Wonderwoman, Magneto, Flash,etc.
> They would be lucky to survive 10 seconds.



Martian Manhunter and Aquaman, both of whom would mindrape the shit out of Dragonball.


----------



## Judas (Nov 19, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Martian Manhunter and Aquaman, both of whom would mindrape the shit out of Dragonball.



Lets not forget Bedlam and Xavier.


----------



## Archreaper93 (Nov 19, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Martian Manhunter and Aquaman, both of whom would mindrape the shit out of Dragonball.



I thought Aquaman only affected marine animals.


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 19, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> I thought Aquaman only affected marine animals.



your thinking of the gay shit cartoon aquaman.


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 19, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Martian Manhunter and Aquaman, both of whom would mindrape the shit out of Dragonball.


Despite the fact that they have telepathy and resistence to such? i can See manhunter, but Aquaman? He's a pretty good psyonic, but i doubt he could do anything to Buu.


----------



## Archreaper93 (Nov 19, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> your thinking of the gay shit cartoon aquaman.



He can use it on anything?
Is it at least stronger underwater?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 19, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> I thought Aquaman only affected marine animals.



No Aquaman is capable of giving you seizures and frying you're brain with his telepathy. He also has super-human strength. 

Martian Manhunter's basically Supes with Telepathy and Shapeshifting and a weakness to fire...

Both of whom are now Black Lanterns so thier durability has sky rockted along with the usual Lantern perks of being able to use constructs.


----------



## Archreaper93 (Nov 19, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> No Aquaman is capable of giving you seizures and frying you're brain with his telepathy. He also has super-human strength.
> 
> Martian Manhunter's basically Supes with Telepathy and Shapeshifting and a weakness to fire.



I knew the Manhunter was a powerhouse, but Aquaman?
That's threw me for a loop.


----------



## Archreaper93 (Nov 19, 2009)

Anyways, we can make other threads for these topics.
This is Gohan Vs. Hulk
HULK SMASH GOHAN DIE
ALREADY PROVEN
CLOSE
Agreed?


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 19, 2009)

jedijohn said:


> Anyways, we can make other threads for these topics.
> This is Gohan Vs. Hulk
> HULK SMASH GOHAN DIE
> ALREADY PROVEN
> CLOSE


gohan is just way to fast to base hulk it just don't gonna happen that way unless it is in blood lust and even do i have never seen hulk at hyper sonic


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 19, 2009)

Aquaman without telepathy could never beat even a freeza level foe. And like i said. Its debatable if his brand would even hurt DBZers


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 19, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> gohan is just way to fast to base hulk it just don't gonna happen that way unless it is in blood lust and even do i have never seen hulk at hyper sonic



Base Hulk in thread is World War Hulk, which is his second strongest form, and still gets all his feats minus those performed by War Hulk. Which means all those feats that were posted on the last page apply, especially the ones that happened during Planet Hulk.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 19, 2009)

I believe we've been looking for a quantifiable speed-feat from Hulk since page 1. What is Hulk's actual speed? I could see him as sonic, maybe super-sonic when he jumps. But nothing's ever really been shown beyond PIS instances with other chars.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 19, 2009)

Havoc said:


> Well it's not that his hand was stronger, but it was right over Glads eyes so some of the energy went back and hurt him.
> 
> Pak started righting Hulk in late 2000, I'm pretty sure this fight was in the 90's or early 2000's at the latest.



thats what i mean i think that issue was one of the first pak ever wrote

and the eye thing yeah thats a legit way to mess gladz up...Nova did similar shit to buy himself time once iirc 

he also bleeds black blood which is creepy


----------



## Havoc (Nov 19, 2009)

Raigen said:


> I believe we've been looking for a quantifiable speed-feat from Hulk since page 1. What is Hulk's actual speed? I could see him as sonic, maybe super-sonic when he jumps. But nothing's ever really been shown beyond PIS instances with other chars.


So all his instances of hitting fast people are PIS?


----------



## Z (Nov 19, 2009)

This thread


----------



## Raigen (Nov 19, 2009)

Havoc said:


> So all his instances of hitting fast people are PIS?



Prove me wrong. We got Spidey dodging him and he's just a touch above bullet-time. Most of WWH showed that people were trying to stop him, not kill him. Meaning they weren't exactly giving their all, and because of that got their asses kicked (many of them being Skrull though so not much of a feat there).


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 19, 2009)

honestly Emperor Joker MM is more a herald/GL lite then he is comparable to superman
in fact I'm pretty sure he'd fuck clark up something fierce

but yeah back on topic

can gohan ktfo hulk before hulk thunder clap spamms


----------



## chulance (Nov 20, 2009)

Well then time for the debate.

Hulk obviously outclasses Gohan in physical strength, does he have super human speed as well? I'm pretty sure he's invulnerable to all Gohan's DBZ level energy attacks, and Hulk has lung adaption so planet busting will be useless.

If Hulk has super speed he'll own Gohan, but isn't Gohan faster?


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

Someone disagreed with Gohan being able to shatter a mountain with a punch. What does everyone think?

Gohan is to fast for his thunderclap, Gohan will be behind hulk as he uses the clap. Anyone got scans of Hulk fighting on par with someone hypersonic+? By this I mean that the person he is fighting is actually GOING hypersonic+ while fighting Hulk.

And oh yeah, DBZ characters probably own like 70+percent of comic book characters. Just an estimate.


----------



## ScreenXSurfer (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> And oh yeah, DBZ characters probably own like 70+percent of comic book characters. Just an estimate.



And oh yeah, Galactus probably owns 100% of all of DB and DBZ and GT. Just an estimate.


----------



## chulance (Nov 20, 2009)

Gohan probably can shatter mountains with punches or power up using his aura to wipe out mountains.

Well I don't know Hulk's speed but if it matches Gohan or surpasses it, his thunder clap will rip Gohan apart. 

TTGL, Digimon, Pokemeon, Yu-gi-oh, Spawn,  Galactus, X menverse, DC verse, the rest of the marvel-verse, Watchmen, and several other fictional verses own DB/DBZ/DBGT.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 20, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Prove me wrong. We got Spidey dodging him and he's just a touch above bullet-time. Most of WWH showed that people were trying to stop him, not kill him. Meaning they weren't exactly giving their all, and because of that got their asses kicked (many of them being Skrull though so not much of a feat there).



What do you mean prove you wrong, unless you ignorantly think all the instances of him hitting fast people are PIS, then I just did.

Spiderman has outmaneuvered Silver Surfer and Firelord. 

The only person who was a skrull was Black Bolt, who still wasn't weak.

Yea, Hulk wasn't trying to kill them either...


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> And oh yeah, Galactus probably owns 100% of all of DB and DBZ and GT. Just an estimate.



No shit Galactus is like a god...Galactus rapes 100 percent of most verses...
Probably!? LOL what a dbz wanker, Galactus obviously rapes.hahahaha


> Gohan probably can shatter mountains with punches or power up using his aura to wipe out mountains.
> 
> Well I don't know Hulk's speed but if it matches Gohan or surpasses it, his thunder clap will rip Gohan apart.
> 
> TTGL, Digimon, Pokemeon, Yu-gi-oh, Spawn, Galactus, X menverse, DC verse, the rest of the marvel-verse, Watchmen, and several other fictional verses own DB/DBZ/DBGT.



Hulks speed is not even remotely close to Gohans if we are talking about reaction speed and combat speed.

uhh i dont know about Digimon, Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh..
Spawn himself will get raped. I know marvel and dc verses own but DB verse still owns 70percent+ of their comic book characters.


----------



## chulance (Nov 20, 2009)

So Hulk is massively hypersonic like the DBZ fighters?


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

chulance said:


> So Hulk is massively hypersonic like the DBZ fighters?



No not even close.


----------



## Hellspawn28 (Nov 20, 2009)

> And oh yeah, DBZ characters probably own like 70+percent of comic book characters. Just an estimate.



Lol what? I think all of the skyfathers, comsics, and the nigh Omnipotents would like a word with you.



> Spawn himself will get raped.



Depending on the version. 2nd Age and 4th Spawn would likely beat any DBZGT characters. King of hell Spawn (2nd Age) will just suck them up in obilvion, and was shown to  alter reality of hell itself. 4th age Spawn was shown to a re-create a universe in his own image. And tank a blast from God and Satan at once and was not even hurt (The blast was stated to destroy the whole universe in a single attack).


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> Lol what? I think all of the skyfathers, comsics, and the nigh Omnipotents would like a word with you.



lol wouldnt they be part of the 30 percent that they cant own?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy thats a poor estimation

especially given some of the insanity of the top tiers

plus you have those totally insane hong kong street fighter comics where..every one from ken...to his grandmother can cause universal destruction with drop kicks (no seriously not joking here...they wanked SF to an extreme ryu did a round house kick and recreated the universe or some whack ass shit)


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Nov 20, 2009)

I am not a comic expert... but I have heard and seen some  feats of hulk at respect threads.  Even if Gohan is faster than Hulk it would be like  an eagle/leopard  vs an elephant.

Gohan=eagle/leopard
Hulk=/elephant


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> heavy thats a poor estimation
> 
> especially given some of the insanity of the top tiers
> 
> plus you have those totally insane hong kong street fighter comics where..every one from ken...to his grandmother can cause universal destruction with drop kicks (no seriously not joking here...they wanked SF to an extreme ryu did a round house kick and recreated the universe or some whack ass shit)



lol are you serious!? SF being able to do that shitt.

Maybe it is a poor estimation but its because the majority of comic book characters that I know are very weak compared to the top tiers. What would be your estimation?


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## MichaelUN89 (Nov 20, 2009)

Who wins in:
speed: Gohan(not sure, since I do not know Hulk)
Strenght: Hulk
Durability: Hulk


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> lol are you serious!? SF being able to do that shitt.
> 
> Maybe it is a poor estimation but its because the majority of comic book characters that I know are very weak compared to the top tiers. What would be your estimation?



yes i'm dead fucking serious about that shit..sadly

twenty to thirty percent of any of the high tiers thats it

i can't for example see them surviving..any skyfather level opponent

God for bid the two strongest of the class Odin and SHAZAM 

you could pretty much out the entire dbu against..zues or odin or SHAz and it'd still end in a rape


----------



## chulance (Nov 20, 2009)

Well Gohan can't hurt Hulk at all, so even if he's faster it will be a stalemate.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Nov 20, 2009)

chulance said:


> Well Gohan can't hurt Hulk at all, so even if he's faster it will be a stalemate.



Yea but as we know
"You can hide but not run forever". At some point Gohan is going to run out of ki:/ and hulk is going to kill the poor dude.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 20, 2009)

Gohan is faster than Hulk.

Gohan can hurt Hulk.

Hulk can hit/hurt Gohan.

Hulk can regen.


This is all you need to know; whether you pick Hulk to win or Gohan to win, at least realize this basic info.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

Speed:Gohan(massively)
Strength: Hulk(base) 
               Hulk when mad(massively)

Durability: Hulk(massively)
Energy Projection: Gohan (massively)
Fighting Skills: Gohan
Stamina: Hulk(massively)
PLUS lets not forget Gohan can fly.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

speed gap is not massive

and gohan can't knock him out before he gets AOE'd


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## MichaelUN89 (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Speed:Gohan(massively)
> Strength: Hulk(base)
> Hulk when mad(massively)
> 
> ...



Flying is  a nice advantage. But if Hulk can jump so high as I have heard, it is not useful at all. 

Fighting skills- nice but not always work.

Lee vs polar Bear
Who wins?


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> yes i'm dead fucking serious about that shit..sadly
> 
> twenty to thirty percent of any of the high tiers thats it
> 
> ...



yeah I agree with twenty to thirty percent against high tiers, high tier comic book characters are just rapage. But how about overall including low, mid and high tier comic book characters? What would be your estimation then.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

MichaelUN89 said:


> Flying is  a nice advantage. But if Hulk can jump so high as I have heard, it is not useful at all.
> 
> Fighting skills- nice but not always work.
> 
> ...



lol yea but jumping sucks, what would be the point in jumping when the person your fighting can just move out of the way and your back on the ground. 

With Fighting skills it depends, it makes you more agile and added with hypersonic reaction and speed makes it very great.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> lol yea but jumping sucks, what would be the point in jumping when the person your fighting can just move out of the way and your back on the ground.


I can agree with you here.



> With Fighting skills it depends, it makes you more agile and added with hypersonic reaction and speed makes it very great.



Yes it depends but as I said  no matter if you are fast as a leopard or good at martial arts like Lee 

you are not going to be able to defeat an elephant even if it is clumbsy and slow.   

Here is something bad for Gohan:

hulk gets angry and destroys the planet....  Gohan dies since he can not survive in space but Hulk can.


Other scenario. 

Durability. Hulk has a crazy durability.... 

The ki is amazing, but it makes the user lose lot of energy in no time. 

Is not hard to think Gohan at some point could run out of energy and that would not be  a good news for him. 

A way for hulk to repalce ki blast is  grabing big rocks and throwing them at great speeds.


To be quite honest I doubt Gohan could win.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

honestly micheal thunder claps are omnidirectional...and they do a good deal of damage

hurling rocks may not be needed

but is certainly optional


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Nov 20, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> honestly micheal thunder claps are omnidirectional...and they do a good deal of damage
> 
> hurling rocks may not be needed
> 
> but is certainly optional



O well I  do not read comics and I am not a comic expert so I was giving an opinion based on few things I have heard and seen .


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 20, 2009)

Why is flying an advantage. These lame hulks nowadays jump to the moon


----------



## Vault (Nov 20, 2009)

This thread still going on  Really guys


----------



## Gohan (Nov 20, 2009)

*SSJ2 Gohan can already solar system bust yet alone Mystic Gohan ROFL. He doesnt even need to get mad like the hulk he can throw it out right away.*

taunting

*Tranquil you go why doesnt Goku fly across the planet instead of Instant transmission if they were Light speed?*

*Goku to Gohan: “Don’t fly too fast. Save your energy.”*

taunting
*
Hulks casual punches better have enough energy to destroy the earth (moving tetonic plates is laughable) if he wants to even make Mystic Gohan flinch.*

*Picollo easily destroyed the moon with one hand.*

taunting

*Nappa levels a portion of the earth with 2 fingers.*

taunting

taunting
*
Sayian Vegeta with a power level of 18000 fires an attack that can destroy the earth.*

taunting

taunting

*A spirit bomb that King Kai claims can destroy the planet*

taunting

*Goku says the terrible energy involved could destroy the planet.*

taunting

*50% Freeza survived it.*

taunting

*He also survives gokus full powered kamehameha. The kamehamehama where a much weaker Goku fended off a planet destroying attack from Vegeta.*

taunting

*SSJ1 Vegeta can easily destroy the planet if he was serious.*

taunting
*
Another attack.

Krillian fears for the earth.*

taunting

*So does Trunks.*

taunting

*Trunks goes Vegeta makes his attack smaller at the last second so it doesnt destroy the earth.*

taunting
*
A more powerful SSJ1 Vegeta did the same thing to Super perfect cell and he took it without a dent.*

taunting

taunting
*
Gokus kamehameha will destroy the earth.*

Link removed

*Cells one can too.*

Link removed

*Gohans returns one that pushes it like its nothing.*

Link removed
*
According to Goku Freeza could destroy the planet with a final blow but he wanted to fight Goku with his full power too.*

Link removed

*SSJ1 Gotenks a bug to Mystic Gohan clearly demonstrated relativistic feats right here.*

*SSJ1 Gotenks is so fast his scared of destroying the house just be flying.*

Link removed
*
Instead he flies with a height at least twice the earths radius.*

Link removed

*Hulk punches need much > than planet busting energy to hurt Gohan.

He needs relativistic speeds to even catch him.

Gohan also demonstrated telekinesis and shields such as when he reflected the bazooka, Goku lifting water out of the vase as well as telekentic powers such as mind reading by touching someones head.*


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## Vault (Nov 20, 2009)

> SSJ2 Gohan can already solar system bust yet alone Mystic Gohan ROFL. He doesnt even need to get mad like the hulk he can throw it out right away



  


Whut


----------



## Gohan (Nov 20, 2009)

Vault said:


> Whut



Funny none of the Z fighters were laughing when Cell said it.

Guess you probably know more.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

Gohan basically sums up this thread and why Gohan would win.


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## Vault (Nov 20, 2009)

Come back when Gohan can survive a blow from someone who can do that


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 20, 2009)

Once again, no destructive feats were shown to suggest they could solar system bust.  The ONLY thing to suggest that is one statement made by a fallible antagonist.

You can fit 43,654,776,000 Earths in our solar system, assuming it was flat and not a squashed sphere.  Sounds like a hyperbole to me.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> Once again, no destructive feats were shown to suggest they could solar system bust.  The ONLY thing to suggest that is one statement made by a fallible antagonist.
> 
> You can fit 43,654,776,000 Earths in our solar system, assuming it was flat and not a squashed sphere.  Sounds like a hyperbole to me.



but why would the writer put that in there then? There is also no previous feats to suggest that cell would be lieing and there doesnt really have to be any previous destructive feats to show it considering he recently became Perfect Cell and he was toying with everyone that he was fighting...

But i understand where your coming from, destroying a solar system is a huge leap from planet busting, I just dont understand why cell or the writer would lie about it or put it in for the fuck of it.


----------



## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 20, 2009)

Once again.  Hyperbole.  Look it up.

Seriously.  Look at the number again.

That's how many Earths can fit in our solar system - 43+ BILLION, IF IT WAS FLAT - as in a 2D cross section.  If you were to assume our solar system was a perfect sphere, it's going to contain roughly 5.85347371 × 10^16 Earths.  58,534,737,100,000,000 Earths.

Seriously.  Going from planet busting to solar system busting is like having some guy who can easily destroy a building go "RAWR IF I POWERZ UP I CAN DESTROY THE PLANET!!!1!@!1"


----------



## Raigen (Nov 20, 2009)

There are some things you're missing. Most of the solar-system is empty space and because of the vacuum there's nothing to slow down the blast caused by an attack from these guys, aside from say debris or other planets, asteroids, etc. If you try and bring in numbers it just gets more ridiculous.

Slight numbers deal for DBZ. 18k PL was enough to planet-bust. Freeza's PL in base form was I think around 530k. If you wanted to take that as numbers, Freeza at base level could deliver enough force to destroy near 30 planets in one shot. Final Form at 1% force was 1.2mil which is almost 67x what's required for planet-busting.

Even ignoring that, Hulk holding up billions of tons is not impressive when you got a guy who cleaved a planet in half effortlessly with energy from 2 of his fingers, and Freeza is considered a weakling nowadays. Mirai Trunks before all his training killed Freeza and King Cold easily, but got slapped around like a ragdoll by #18.


----------



## Fang (Nov 20, 2009)

Raigen subscribes to astrology to explain Ki behavior in space


----------



## Gohan (Nov 20, 2009)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> Once again.  Hyperbole.  Look it up.
> 
> Seriously.  Look at the number again.
> 
> ...



You realise space in itself is a vacuum because there is so much space between galaxies, stars, and planets. Our solar system is just a miniature version of that, it is mainly a vacuum as there is so much space between the planets and the suns in itself in the solar system.

Also Roshis power level of 139 can destroy the moon. 
And if we are going to use your fitting example then 49 moons fit in the earth so a power level of about 6800 can destroy the earth.

Which makes sense since this was around Nappa's power level. 

Gokus power level stated in the data book at SSJ1 was 150,000,000.
His power level after training and becoming asscended saiyan? Dont even know infact il be generous and not even include it.

Now we know



> If you are trying to figure out how much Goku's strength multiplies when he went Super Saiyan, I would say use the manga as your guide. If you go by manga you could say the first time Goku went Super Saiyan his strength multiplied atleast 40-50x.
> 
> Goku during the Frieza Saga used Kaioken x20 against a 50% Final Form Frieza who stopped the attack with one hand. Goku would have needed to double that and more to stand a chance against 100% Final Form Frieza and to win.



So say SSJ2 did the same increase.

150 000 000*50 = 7 500 000 000

Now Gokus power level was over trippled when he was powering up a kamehameha to when we was not so 

7 500 000 000*3= 22 500 000 000

Now how many earths
22 500 000 000/6800= 3 308 824 earths

Now the sun makes the MAJORITY of our solar system and the sun can fit 1/3 earths that an SSJ2 level can destroy. So even if we chop our number by about 1/2 it would suffice in destroying the solar system easily. 

Now im just going by your volume theory when really its about gravitational binding energy.


----------



## Fang (Nov 20, 2009)

Ki and geology

does it work


----------



## Fang (Nov 20, 2009)

let me explain how ki and neutrons work in a positron free environment


----------



## Raigen (Nov 20, 2009)

It's believed that Maxed Roshi can push up to somewhere around 250. His PL in the anime was shown by Bulma to be like 192 with Krillin being like 204. That's before the training to prepare for the Saiyans' Arrival. Roshi's biggest drawback is the fact he's like 120yrs old or so and no-where near his prime anymore.


----------



## Fang (Nov 20, 2009)

Would Ki be affected by a gravitional singularity


----------



## Vault (Nov 20, 2009)

Hyberbole you say? the narrator never hyberbole


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Nov 20, 2009)

Gohan wins                  .


----------



## Raigen (Nov 20, 2009)

Wasn't affected by Earth's gravity. Would it be affected by a Black Hole? Most probably. Only times we have it being used against gravity was the anime when Goku used a Kamehameha to push himself and his ship away from a star. Then there was the time when the Gravitron in Goku's ship was going honky from an electromagnetic space storm and a blast he sent up to break the cord binding his legs to the ceiling was fighting against the 100+ Gravity, Goku was weak and lost control and the blast came back to smack him in the face.

That deficiency though was overcome by the end when Goku sent multiple ki blasts around the ship to strike himself in 100x gravity and the gravity had no effect in the ki blasts. Similar occurrence later on with Vegeta training up to 450x gravity. So yeah ki can overcome gravity, depending on its users control.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

and here are the stadistic for the dragon ball characters 


*Spoiler*: __ 



the coming of Metal Freezer 
* Metal Freezer:200.000.000 
* King Cold (Segunda Forma):13.000.000 
* Trunks:220.000.000 
* Vegeta:12.000.000 
* Piccolo:2.000.000 
* Tenshinhan:600.000 
* Tenshinhan ( Kaio Ken X4):2.400.000 
* Tenshinhan (Kaio Ken X10):6.000.000 
* Tenshinhan ( Kaio Ken X20):12.000.000 
* Yamcha:120.000 
* Krilin:80.000 
* Goku:225.000.000 
* Gohan:250.000 
* Chaoz:40.000 
Android Saga 
* C-20:10.000.000 (doubtful )
* C-19:30.000.000 (doubtful )
* c-18:350.000.000 
* c-17:400.000.000 
* C-16:480.000.000 
* Vegeta:330.000.000 
* Piccolo:16.000.000 
* Goku:300.000.000 
* Goku (with the virus):35.000.000 
* Tenshinhan:11.000.000 
* Tenshinhan(Kaio Ken X20):220.000.000 
* Yamcha:1.500.000 
* Krilin:1.200.000 
* Gohan:8.000.000 
* Imperfect Cell :300.000.000 
* Cell (after absorving humans):480.000.000 
* Piccolo + Kamisama = Super Namekkusei:400.000.000 
* Tenshinhan (using Kikoho):880.000.000 
* Cell (after absorving C-17):880.000.000 
* Vegeta (in the time room):1.000.000.000 
* Trunks (first time in the time room):1.200.000.000 
* Cell Perfecto:2.500.000.000 
* Piccolo after the training in the room of time and spirit :800.000.000 
* Goku (after training in the time room ):2.000.000.000 
* Gohan (after training in the time chamber):1.900.000.000 
* Vegeta (after training in the time e room for second time):1.800.000.000 
* Trunks (after training in the time room for second time):1.750.000.000 
* Gohan SSJII: 10.000.000.000 
* super Perfect Cell : 10.000.000.000 
Trunks child:160.000.000 
* Goten child:150.000.000 
* Mr.Satan:139 
* Spopovitch:1.000.000 
* Yamu:1.000.000. 
* Videl:150 
* Goku SSJII:20.000.000.000 
* Vegeta SSJII:19.000.000.000 
* Gohan:2.500.000.000 
* Kaiohshin.1.500.000.000 
* Kibito:1.250.000.000 
* Piccolo:1.000.000.000 
* Krilin:6.500.000 
* Tenshinhan:750.000.000 
* Tenshinhan (Kaio Ken X20):15.000.000.000 
* Pui Pui:50.000.000 
* Yakon:100.000.000 
* Dabura:2.500.000.000 
* Majin Vegeta:21.000.000.000 
* Majin Boo:30.000.000.000 
* Super Boo:44.900.000.000 
* Mystic Gohan:50.000.000.000 
* Gotenks SSJIII:45.000.000.000 
* Goku SSJIII: 43.000.000.000 
* Kid Buu:42.500.000.000 
* Super Buu + Gotenks SSJIII + Piccolo:250.000.000.000 
* Super Buu + Mystic Gohan:500.000.000.000 
* Vegetto SSJ: 1.000.000.000.000


 this from the Daizenshuu 7 the dragon ball final databook now lets do the math the base attack for blowing a planet is 6800 super perfect cell level is super Perfect Cell : 10.000.000.000 now  10.000.000.000 divided by 6800 is 1470588.23529412 the sun mas is 332946 now by simple common sense cell could destroy the sun like 3 times and the sun is the 99% of the solar system mass now mystic gohan level is  50.000.000.000 i dont even gonna bother to the math is obvious the mystic gohan destroy the solar system like 15 time with one attack


----------



## Raigen (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm not trusting that cause a lot of those numbers don't make any sense at all given that even 19 and 20 were supposedly stronger than Freeza yet the numbers don't match up. Gonna need to wait for an official American translation of those books to be sure.


----------



## Lucifeller (Nov 20, 2009)

It should also be noted that when Kid Buu detonated himself, he only managed to destroy Earth. Nothing else.

And if someone here says Kid Buu was holding back, I will smack them. Kid Buu is an insane genocidal maniac, he never holds back. Overkill is his only method of attack. Despite that, the only planet that needed restoring when he went boom was Earth. And Kid Buu, while not at Gohan's level, was far stronger than any other planetbuster in DB and DBZ... which obviously means large scale destructive power does NOT directly scale to power level. Otherwise he'd have wiped out a good chunk of the galaxy.

Let's face it, when it comes to planetbusting, DBZ is massively inconsistent, even more so than Marvel Comics.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

Raigen said:


> I'm not trusting that cause a lot of those numbers don't make any sense at all given that even 19 and 20 were supposedly stronger than Freeza yet the numbers don't match up. Gonna need to wait for an official American translation of those books to be sure.


sorry my bad i forgot to write  doubtful next to the name but as for that is it in the end this is the word of the author (if some one the link for the book ill give it to you all it is in spanish do)


----------



## Raigen (Nov 20, 2009)

Luci, it should be noted that Buu didn't detonate himself on Earth. He launched an attack that was 10x planet-busting force and it was too fast to be countered. Buu just didn't care about being blown up with the planet and simply reformed afterwords. He then ported and repeated the same thing over and over again across the galaxy using Instant Transmission. Him "blowing up" is just result of him being blown away with the planet after blasting it. Kid Buu wasn't self-destructing the way Semi-Perfect Cell did.


----------



## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 20, 2009)

The reason I did the math was to show you how big our solar system was.

You know, if Neptune was on one side and Uranus, Saturn, or Jupiter was on the other side of the Sun, he'd need an explosion big enough to encompass the entire area to be able to destroy the planets.  All of the planets aren't sitting next to each other.  Granted space is a vacuum and the energy can easily pass through quite easily, no destructive feat was ever shown to be THAT big.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 20, 2009)

Aside from filler-flashback of King Vegeta nuking 3 planets at once and non-canon Brolly raping a galaxy.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

first of all the daizenshu (sp) is a databook no? why are you using something that shitty as evidence

secondly o just saw gohan scans..my god the level of assumptions he makes there...


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 20, 2009)

Hulk is as strong as plot when he has to be, but how good is he to start in Base? And no, I don't follow hulk behindthe odd comic. 

How durable is Hulk before he has a chance to get mad? Can this be proven with consitency as oppossed to som one-off shit scan that could have any number of circumstance behind them were Hulk has since changed?

How fast is Hulk's reaction speed? Again, can this be proven in the aforementioned fashion? If yes, can this further be proven to be continous so that Hulk could continously react to wtv from different angles.

How good is Hulk regen? Again, can this be proven in the aforementioned fashion with consitency? 

Last what other "powers" does Hulk have that would help him within seconds of the fight? For instances, how long does it take him to get a boost from being angry, and can anyone show there is even the smallet bit of consitency in those boost. 

Assuming no one can answer the above, it could be said Hulk is wildly inconsitent. 
Assuming the above can be answered, well, at least those "less knowledgeable" could determine who wins.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> first of all the daizenshu (sp) is a databook no? why are you using something that shitty as evidence
> 
> secondly o just saw gohan scans..my god the level of assumptions he makes there...



I'm suppose to laugh at this?  this the word of the author against you word *please refrain to do comments like this if you don't have something important* to say thank you 



now aporting something important plot reasons because the author never let cell blow the solar system reason number one many characters had been resurrected with the namekians DB if cell unleashed that attack those characters wouldnt have a way to como back to life together with almost the half of the earth that have been resurected via DB and NDB


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> I'm suppose to laugh at this?  this the word of the author against you word *please refrain to do comments like this if you don't have something important* to say thank you



you should probably..read the rules...of the board

no one uses databases here..

well people do..they then get yelled at by every one




Blackfeather Dragon said:


> now aporting something important plot reasons because the author never let cell blow the solar system reason number one many characters had been resurrected with the namekians DB if cell unleashed that attack those characters wouldnt have a way to como back to life together with almost the half of the earth that have been resurected via DB and NDB



bottom line is it he never did it making the statement in admissible


----------



## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Hulk is as strong as plot when he has to be, but how good is he to start in Base? And no, I don't follow hulk behindthe odd comic.
> *he was destroying north america by walking*
> How durable is Hulk before he has a chance to get mad? Can this be proven with consitency as oppossed to som one-off shit scan that could have any number of circumstance behind them were Hulk has since changed?
> *he was tanking hits from many mid/high tier marval heros*
> ...



replys in bold


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> The reason I did the math was to show you how big our solar system was.
> 
> You know, if Neptune was on one side and Uranus, Saturn, or Jupiter was on the other side of the Sun, he'd need an explosion big enough to encompass the entire area to be able to destroy the planets.  All of the planets aren't sitting next to each other.  Granted space is a vacuum and the energy can easily pass through quite easily, no destructive feat was ever shown to be THAT big.



Not really, the only thing holding together these planets on their ecliptic plane is the Sun...Also the two largest planets Saturn and Jupiter will be no problem considering the majority of the planet is gas with a small rocky core. Once the sun goes down, everything else will follow regardless of how far they are to each other. Since the sun's mass is 99 percent of our solar system then yes, destroying it would result in solar system busting. If you wanna equate that to star busting that you can since they are practically the same.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> bottom line is it he never did it making the statement in admissible


it is admissible because it is the way of the author to let us know it


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 20, 2009)

Where in the databooks does it say Cell can blow up a Solar System? Databooks are allowed as secondary canon if they are not contradicted. So you'll have to post it here. Besides no one above Cell showed Solar System busting attack power so most likely it's contradicted.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> replys in bold



Still waiting for someone to show me how Hulk can fight someone with hypersonic speed and reaction...Yes there is the argument "You dont have to be hypersonic to hit someone hypersonic" but if the person you are hitting also has hypersonic reaction time than that is futile...

He tanked shit from high tier characters that were made low tier to suit his weaknesses. Stop bringing that up. We both know Hulk doesnt even have a one percent chance against Surfer or Thor.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> it is admissible because it is the way of the author to let us know it



somethings only valid if its backed up by on penal evidence

that is not..


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Not really, the only thing holding together these planets on their ecliptic plane is the Sun...Also the two largest planets Saturn and Jupiter will be no problem considering the majority of the planet is gas with a small rocky core. Once the sun goes down, everything else will follow regardless of how far they are to each other. Since the sun's mass is 99 percent of our solar system then yes, destroying it would result in solar system busting. If you wanna equate that to star busting that you can since they are practically the same.



In that case, I'd still like to see a scan of a DB destructive feat that would take out the Sun.

EDIT: To add, being able to bust a solar system completely with 1 attack is different than busting a star and letting the effects of a black hole do all the work.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 20, 2009)

We give you proof but you cry about PIS. It is'nt PIS if he's been doing it multiple times.


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Still waiting for someone to show me how Hulk can fight someone with hypersonic speed and reaction...Yes there is the argument "You dont have to be hypersonic to hit someone hypersonic" but if the person you are hitting also has hypersonic reaction time than that is futile...
> 
> He tanked shit from high tier characters that were made low tier to suit his weaknesses. Stop bringing that up. *We both know Hulk doesnt even have a one percent chance against Surfer or Thor*.



thats why the weaker zombie hulk jumped ON the bored and bit SS head off?


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Where in the databooks does it say Cell can blow up a Solar System? Databooks are allowed as secondary canon if they are not contradicted. So you'll have to post it here. Besides no one above Cell showed Solar System busting attack power so most likely it's contradicted.



Im not sure if this is canon and im to lazy to find out since its a friday but when the Kais were talking about Majin Buu before he came out his ball, didnt they say he was ravaging galaxies or some shit? Again not sure if some one is knowledgeable of this then tell me.


----------



## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> *Im not sure if this is canon *and* im to lazy* to find out since its a friday but when the Kais were talking about Majin Buu before he came out his ball, didnt they say he was ravaging galaxies or some shit? Again not sure if some one is knowledgeable of this then tell me.



/your argument


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm still waiting for the databook page that says Cell was a Solar system buster. It's agreeable to use databooks as secondary canon as long as it is not contradicted but like I said Kid Buu was at best multi planet buster based on feats so the chances of Cell being a Solar system buster when people above him are'nt is null.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> thats why the weaker zombie hulk jumped ON the bored and bit SS head off?



Thats why that is complete inconsistent bullshit crossover considering Surfer can just FLT+ his ass? Im being generous so i wont mention black hole capabilities.(shit)


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> /your argument



Im asking a question dumbass? Thats not my argument, can i not ask a question without someone on my ass?


----------



## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Im asking a question dumbass? Thats not my argument, can i not ask a question with someone on my ass?



you where makng a statment and said yourself you dont belive its canon and you said you dont feel like looking it up that means your argument should be invalid because your claming somthign but too lazy from your own mouth to show proof

everything is not PIS


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> nice flamebait



Didn't you make a thread to request the banning of DBZ threads because you are annoyed of them and dont want to see them yet your here viewing them and posting in them.... Your credibility just amazes me.


----------



## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Didn't you make a thread to request the banning of DBZ threads because you are annoyed of them and dont want to see them yet your here viewing them and posting in them.... Your credibility just amazes me.



even thoughim annoyed i cant pass up a +1 post since i can restate the known facts right?


also nice baiting again


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> even thoughim annoyed i cant pass up a +1 post since i can restate the known facts right?
> 
> 
> also nice baiting again





"bwaaahhh he is baiting"


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> "bwaaahhh he is baiting"



calling the kettle black?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 20, 2009)

@HR I'm sure that was dub. I don't recall any of that in the manga and besides it's been contradicted by actual feats.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> I'm still waiting for the databook page that says Cell was a Solar system buster. It's agreeable to use databooks as secondary canon as long as it is not contradicted but like I said Kid Buu was at best multi planet buster based on feats so the chances of Cell being a Solar system buster when people above him are'nt is null.


the Daizenshuu 7 shows the leve of power i did the math base in the idea that 6800 is the power necesary to destroy a planet and guess what my math show me that cell can destroy the the sun 3 times (remember the sun is 99% of the solar system mass)or the solar system using all his power a single a kamehameha that destroy the solar system should be child play to him reading comes before the post and make sure you read it all do you guys even know how to read



> you should probably..read the rules...of the board
> 
> no one uses databases here..





> It's agreeable to use databooks as secondary canon as long as it is not contradicted


 one of you here is saying a lie trying to torn away my arguments because they true? they hurt? they dont like then? or it is that tranquil fury rewrote the rules in the last 20 minutes?


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## Sazabi24 (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> the Daizenshuu 7 shows the leve of power i did the math base in the idea that 6800 is the power necesary to destroy a planet and guess what my math show me that cell can destroy the the sun 3 times or the solar system using all his power a single a kamehameha that destroy the solar system should be child play to him reading comes before the post and make sure you read it all *do you guys even know how to read*



Um... no... I have no idea how to read what you have just wrote.

In English, there are things called commas and periods.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

again using sources of dubious canon?


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## God (Nov 20, 2009)

I pos'd heavy_rasengan. Keep it up bro, for all us DBtards out there.


----------



## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> the Daizenshuu 7 shows the leve of power i did the math base in the idea that 6800 is the power necesary to destroy a planet and guess what my math show me that cell can destroy the the sun 3 times (remember the sun is 99% of the solar system mass)or the solar system using all his power a single a kamehameha that destroy the solar system should be child play to him reading comes before the post and make sure you read it all do you guys even know how to read
> 
> 
> one of you here is saying a lie trying to torn away my arguments because they true? they hurt? they dont like then? or it is that tranquil fury rewrote the rules in the last 20 minutes?



Show me a scan of someone with 6800 power can planet bust.

Prove to me that power level scales linearly with destructive capabilities.

Or hell, just show me a scan of someone destroying the solar system.

It's because databooks generally contradict what's shown, so if something is wrong, then anything can be wrong.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> one of you here is saying a lie trying to torn away my arguments because they true? they hurt? they dont like then? or it is that tranquil fury rewrote the rules in the last 20 minutes?



if you pay attention to what he's saying I'm not wrong

when it does not contradict primary  canon it is usable

when it does it is out

Cell never showed such power..ever

thus it renders the databook invalid

some one here i believe a year or two ago put out a pretty lengthly essay on the things contradictions


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

sazabi24 said:


> Um... no... I have no idea how to read what you have just wrote.
> 
> In English, there are things called commas and periods.


something more intelligent please im asking , it is a crime here to ask for a serious counterpoint that if they are going to include sarcasm please attach something at least clever or bring something more than just pure inflamating arguments


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> something more intelligent please im asking , it is a crime here to ask for a serious counterpoint that if they are going to include sarcasm please attach something at least clever or bring something more than just pure inflamating arguments


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## Sazabi24 (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> something more intelligent please im asking , it is a crime here to ask for a serious counterpoint that if they are going to include sarcasm please attach something at least clever or bring something more than just pure inflamating arguments



I'm asking you to be literate...

USE *PERIODS*, they help you with writing.

No one takes you seriously if they can't understand what you're trying to write.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> Show me a scan of someone with 6800 power can planet bust.
> 
> Prove to me that power level scales linearly with destructive capabilities.
> 
> ...





> You realise space in itself is a vacuum because there is so much space between galaxies, stars, and planets. Our solar system is just a miniature version of that, it is mainly a vacuum as there is so much space between the planets and the suns in itself in the solar system.
> 
> Also Roshis power level of 139 can destroy the moon.
> And if we are going to use your fitting example then 49 moons fit in the earth so a power level of about 6800 can destroy the earth.
> ...


 it is that much hard to revise all the opponent arguments before  trying to counter it



> I'm asking you to be literate...
> 
> USE PERIODS, they help you with writing.
> 
> No one takes you seriously if they can't understand what you're trying to write.


points and commas are use to express a stop or pause in the sentence they do not interfere in the understanding is not like im mispelling something i dont gonna ask you to understand what im saying that beyond the powers of humanity


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## Sazabi24 (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> it is that much hard to revise all the opponent arguments before  trying to counter it



because of something called gravity, it was calced that it would take more than 2000 times as much energy to destroy the Earth than the moon. Roshi destroying the moon was a hyperbole and is not used in the OBD. And finally, Power levels don't scale linearly.



> points and commas are use to express a stop or pause in the sentence they do not interfere in the understanding is not like im mispelling something i dont gonna ask you to understand what im saying that beyond the powers of humanity



periods and commas are very important when writing english because if you dont sentences end up like this and no one will understand what you wrote i doubt anyone can understand what i just wrote but its just to prove a point so from now on try to use periods and commas if you actually live in new york then you should know how to speak and write in english


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

It is not "it is that", it is "Is it that".


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 20, 2009)

I still don't see anyone with a power level of 6800 destroying a planet.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> something more intelligent please im asking , it is a crime here to ask for a serious counterpoint that if they are going to include sarcasm please attach something at least clever or bring something more than just pure inflamating arguments



your a dupe...Whether its of Gohan or HR your a sock puppet

and some ones gonna get ya for it..

also regarding your stellar attempt to insult another poster


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> Show me a scan of someone with 6800 power can planet bust.
> 
> Prove to me that power level scales linearly with destructive capabilities.
> 
> ...





hammer said:


> It is not "it is that", it is "Is it that".


im saying it like an stament a sarcastic one and please look for something better to counter like the who im gonna counter now he shows a human level of understanding of the situation



ChINaMaN1472 said:


> I still don't see anyone with a power level of 6800 destroying a planet.


 vegeta 18.000  a ki attack strong enough to destroy earth and still have strength to create an artificiall moon and keep fighting goku without counting all other attacks a contry destruction (i think it was) ect.



> your a dupe...Whether its of Gohan or HR your a sock puppet
> 
> and some ones gonna get ya for it..
> 
> also regarding your stellar attempt to insult another poster


 good luck with that. Anyways it is insulting to ask for a little of common sense of your part and to do a good job trying to good job counterme so at least this become something challeging


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## skiboydoggy (Nov 20, 2009)

Vegeta can destroy Earth with 18 PL people. :ho


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## Sazabi24 (Nov 20, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> Vegeta can destroy Earth with 18 PL people. :ho



That means farmer with a shotgun is a moon buster


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> im saying it like an stament a sarcastic one and please look for something better to counter like the who im gonna counter now he shows a human level of undertanding of the situation
> 
> 
> > no duh your being sarcastic but it still should not be there.


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## God (Nov 20, 2009)

Everyone SHUT THE FUCK UP. heavy_rasengan and Blackfeather Dragon are right. It's over, they won.


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

Michael Jacksőn said:


> Everyone SHUT THE FUCK UP. heavy_rasengan and Blackfeather Dragon are right. It's over, they won.



reproted for flaming :ho


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> the Daizenshuu 7 shows the leve of power i did the math base in the idea that 6800 is the power necesary to destroy a planet and guess what my math show me that cell can destroy the the sun 3 times (remember the sun is 99% of the solar system mass)or the solar system using all his power a single a kamehameha that destroy the solar system should be child play to him reading comes before the post and make sure you read it all do you guys even know how to read





> one of you here is saying a lie trying to torn away my arguments because they true? they hurt? they dont like then? or it is that tranquil fury rewrote the rules in the last 20 minutes?



What is the level of power required to blow up a planet? And no it does'nt work that way. Power levels don't scale that way. You can't say character A can blow up the planet with a power level of 5 so someone with 500 can blow up 100 planets. It does'nt work that way

You have'nt proven anywhere where it says Cell could Solar System bust in the databooks. You made up your own calcs that would'nt work for power levels.

As for your second part Databooks are accepted as secondary canon ONLY if they are not contradicted. No character stronger than Cell busted a Solar system, Kid Buu blew up the planet with a powerful Ki blast so we can say he's multi-planet buster but not Solar System buster.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> Blackfeather Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > im saying it like an stament a sarcastic one and please look for something better to counter like the who im gonna counter now he shows a human level of undertanding of the situation
> ...


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## hammer (Nov 20, 2009)

which was four days ago


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

hammer said:


> which was four days ago


 sarcastic mode off: and i was bored no joke why else would i join in a forum to discuss about stuff like this is not like gohan is paying me the aparment rent really dont care who wins or lose i just decide for the one with more possiblities


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 20, 2009)

No power levels don't work that way being 500 times stronger than a planet buster does'nt mean you can bust 500 planets.

Cell can't Solar System bust because characters above him could'nt. They have shown to be multi planet busters at best but that it is NOT STAR BUSTERS NOT SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTERS NOT GALAXY NOT UNIVERSAL NOT MULTI VERSAL AND NOT OMNIVERSAL threats.

You don't even know Cell's power level so how did you make these horrible calcs again?


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Nov 20, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> No power levels don't work that way being 500 times stronger than a planet buster does'nt mean you can bust 500 planets.
> 
> Cell can't Solar System bust because characters above him could'nt. They have shown to be multi planet busters at best but that it is NOT STAR BUSTERS NOT SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTERS NOT GALAXY NOT UNIVERSAL NOT MULTI VERSAL AND NOT OMNIVERSAL threats.
> 
> You don't even know Cell's power level so how did you make these horrible calcs again?


sarcastic mode off:i thank god you havent resort to direct sarcasm like  only option i got faith in you seriuosly

now to the point kid boo was able to galaxy rape someone before him had to do it to an smaller scale to create the transition between palnet busting and galaxies busting and those were cell and gohan either way i know trhe stats i have the databook for DB


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## Lazlow (Nov 20, 2009)

Gohan in a stomp... his power blasts and speed is just too much.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> good luck with that.



you just confessed too it...that's awesome

*Spoiler*: __ 




]







Blackfeather Dragon said:


> Anyways it is insulting to ask for a little of common sense of your part and to do a good job trying to good job counterme so at least this become something challeging


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 20, 2009)

Kid Buu has never busted a Galaxy, it has never been shown in the manga. Kid Buu's best attack blew up a planet albeit very casually. You must be refering to the anime especially the dub which has things like "Raditz is faster than light" or "Kid Buu is faster than light". based on feats not being at that level.

Sorry, does'nt not count and the statement is dismissed as Kid Buu at his best never busted a Galaxy. Also anime is non-canon so none of that stupid Super Buu's scream nonsense either.


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> sarcastic mode off:i thank god you havent resort to direct sarcasm like  only option i got faith in you seriuosly
> 
> now to the point kid boo was able to galaxy rape someone before him had to do it to an smaller scale to create the transition between palnet busting and galaxies busting and those were cell and gohan either way i know trhe stats i have the databook for DB



That's filler and can't be used because it's not cannon, at most Buu is a casual Planet-Buster and no more.

Jesus this thread jumped six pages since last night, this is becoming Magneto Vs. Goku all over again.


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## Judas (Nov 20, 2009)

WTF! Six pages of debating; do people accept loses hear!?


----------



## Lucifeller (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Still waiting for someone to show me how Hulk can fight someone with hypersonic speed and reaction...Yes there is the argument "You dont have to be hypersonic to hit someone hypersonic" but if the person you are hitting also has hypersonic reaction time than that is futile...
> 
> He tanked shit from high tier characters that were made low tier to suit his weaknesses. Stop bringing that up. We both know Hulk doesnt even have a one percent chance against Surfer or Thor.



Hulk has repeatedly tagged speedsters. And among those Northstar and Quicksilver stand out, the latter THREE TIMES.

Considering that Quicksilver once complained to his shrink that to him life was like being at the slowest line when checking out of a supermarket, we KNOW that his reaction time is just as fast as his movement. Yet Hulk tagged him repeatedly in the past.

Hulk also had no trouble keeping up with Sentry, who was shown to dodge LASERS and travel at relativistic speed, during their fight at the end of World War Hulk.

You can say whatever you want about PIS, but Hulk's feats of hitting people who move at retarded speed (minimum he tagged was Mach 5, and it only goes up from there) are consistent. Most of the time he's just too obtuse to use any sort of strategy, which is how people outmaneuver him, but whenever he actually uses a minimum of thought in his actions, things hit the ground real fast and hard.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Nov 20, 2009)

I have the daizenshu and kazenban(remade version of manga with some changes)

Toriyama never included the fillers/GT and other stuff because:
1)They contradict the own plot and powerlevels of the  story
2) They do not make sense and they have lot of fail.

Broly fights toe to toe  in video games. So since you want to use non Canon
Vegeto and Gogeta are at the same level of Broly?? Of course not.

Broly: "galaxy buster"
It sounds nice but:
1)Goku vistis the galaxy that was supposed to be destroyed by Broly 
2)The galaxy  was spinning. This suggest it took many years  
3) Broly was defeated with feats that are far away from galaxy buster level.


Cell said he coul(not proven) destroy the solar system. Lets say this is true. The solar system is  1/one million   fraction  pixel of the entire milky way galaxy.  

So Buu is millions of times stronger than Cell??

I do not think so  and this is why:

1) Daizenshu says that  SSj1 is 50x power up for base form, ssj2 is 2x that and ssj3 4x times that.

Super perfect cell was pretty close to ssj2 level.  

lets say during buu saga  GOku, Gohan and Vegeta are 10 times stronger than super perfect cell, in their base saiyan form.

Following the daizenshu (canon)  At best   Goku ssj3 is 4000 times stronger than perfect cell. That is not even enought to destroy one complete pixel of the milkyway galaxy.


Strenght feats:

Goku was training with a total of 40 tons in one chapter and he needed ssj1 to handle that weight.

Let suppose that the gravity of the planet at best is 100. Something I doubt since kais are not that strong.
Goku was lifting 4000 tons  in his ssj1. With the the ssj3 power up can lift around  32k tons. 

Other example  Vegeta.
During Buu saga, he was training with a gravity of over 100,000 times the gravity of earth. Lets say Vegeta weights 100 kilograms. I do not remember well the exact the number of gravity he was using. But I am going to be super gentle with Vegeta wanking him. I am going to use a gravity of 200,000 for him. So this means Vegeta has lifting the equivalent of around 20000 tons. It is important to point that  Vegeta was using his  ssj1 form during that training and still it was difficult for him. Lets say Goku can lift simmilar weight. So Goku with ssj3 power up could lift  160,000 tons. This is the most optimistic  number for Goku. 

How many tons can Hulk lift? If what I have heard is right significantly much than this. And actually physical strenght normally has important connection with durability.  

Anyway Goku/vegeta/gohan never proved to have good durability against planet explosions. 

I heard Hulk has. And add to  that he can use regeneration.


Another contradictory feat of the anime is when Mystic Buu  uses his strongest Vanishing Ball against Vegeto.

Vegeto kicks the vanishing ball away from Earth, and the energy ball explodes in the solar system.

The explosion destroyed.... 0 planets or stars. This is feat makes the galaxy buster thing nothing more than an hyperbole. And I hate to say it since I am a Dbz fan. 

^With this feat  Cell's solar system thing is nothing but bluffing.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 20, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Still waiting for someone to show me how Hulk can fight someone with hypersonic speed and reaction...Yes there is the argument "You dont have to be hypersonic to hit someone hypersonic" but if the person you are hitting also has hypersonic reaction time than that is futile...
> 
> He tanked shit from high tier characters that were made low tier to suit his weaknesses. Stop bringing that up. We both know Hulk doesnt even have a one percent chance against Surfer or Thor.



Surfer, no.

But he has a chance against Thor.

In fact, if Thor doesn't use some of his more exotic abilities from Mjolnir, Hulk can beat him.


----------



## R00t_Decision (Nov 20, 2009)

Well I went over the first few pages of this thread and it's interesting to see people's opinions or biased psychosis. 

I'll try to be quick, blunt and partial.  Going by what I know of Old Hulk and the new powers he's been given World War Hulk (I assume this series was to create a more powerful character than any shit in Shounen, DB and Superman etc for Marvel).   I've never known the incredible Hulk to be more stronger than Superman, but hey, this is comics, things change.

I've gone over people's arguements for Gohan and mostly the Hulk.

Hulk's power comes from extremely resistant skin and super powers. He is extremely durable in physical form compared to Gohan.  Gohan would be torn apart easily by the Hulk, however, DBZ powers work based on Ki.

The higher the amount of Ki you have the more powerful you are. SSJ2 Gohan in teenform has finessed his Ki to enormous levels. Given he's one of the *top 3 strongest* warriors in DBZ I would say Gohan easily defeats the Hulk in *their highest* forms, even if he has superior abilities.  

I would imagine Hulk extremely angry _would_ kill Teen SSJ2 Gohan if he let out all his rage if he _could_ actually get a hold of him. Gohan is still a weak frail mortal who can die just like his father, and this is the enormous advantage the Hulk has over any character in DBZ.

However, again stating, DBZ works on Ki based levels. If Hulk could actually manage to grab a hold of SSJ2 Young Adult Gohan, any destructive results the Hulk would unleash on SSJ2 Gohan would be diminished by the enormous Ki levels emanating from Gohan. 
 Ki in DBZ, essentially protects the characters from destruction or total annihilation. The higher the Ki, the more deadlier, faster, and powerful you resist being killed yourself from an incredibly powerful foe.   

Now this is interesting:
Gohan's power levels lower each time he uses his energy and his protective Ki Chakra diminishes with each Ki expulsion. Meanwhile, the Hulk gets progressively stronger with every attack which makes him angrier.

Gohan is a half Saijin, and Saijin enjoy strong opponents. This gets their blood boiling. Saijins also increase their strenght tremendously when they are near death or rebound from near death. Whereas, the Hulk has amazing physical abilities, regenerative abilities that prevent him from dying easily, suffering pain and he gets stronger the angrier he gets.  

In the intelligence department Bruce Banner is one of the most intelligent men on the planet, and he's able to combine his Hulk persona with his human mind. Although, other forms of Hulk are known just to be simple minded, carefree Hulks. Gohan is one of the smartest people in the DBZ Universe.

The conflicting parallels here really make this an interesting battle, and an orthodox one at that. 

When the two go head - to -head, the Incredible Hulk probably has a gamut more experience than Gohan when it comes to facing foes. Specifically when we talk about Gohan dealing with the Hulk's abilities, Gohan has dealth with freakish monsters before going by the manga/anime content. 
Cell had ultimate regenerative powers, Buu was a pile of Goo that could hardly die unless hit with massive Ki Blasts.

In regards to Gamma Rays, in physics they are known as the most powerful force in nature and the cosmos. Marvel uses this to measure Hulks immeasurable power. You have to consider though, that Ki is measured as immeasurable power in DBZ.   If we take things into account fairly, Ki is raw energy, and Gamma Ray is a raw energy as well.  It's not unfair to decide that Ki could reach and surpass the levels of Gamma Ray energy produced.
The question is, does SSJ2 Gohan or Mystic level Gohan Ki measure or surpass that level of Gamma Ray power. If it does, then Gohan is a serious contender at any level from this ODB to destroy the Hulk or his WWHulk form. _I'll leave this open debate for you guys._

*Lets skip to an actual battle and get down to the nitty gritty.* Ultimately, I think, that if the Hulk were able to grab Gohan in SSJ2 form after several beatings, the Hulk is so strong he would kill Gohan by severely weakening his KI. However, this would imply that Gohan is stupid and he would allow himself to be destroyed by a manic monster. Gohan is a martial arts warrior, with tremendous fighting technique, trained by the two greatest fighters in the DBZ universe, Goku (his dad) and Piccolo. I don't think he would allow the Hulk to maul him into a chained event death.

Once Gohan is in SSJ2 form, his KI is so gigantic in power level it gives him speeds that outmatch anything the Hulk would probably be able to dish out.
Also on a physical level, and his fighting technique at full power Gohan would deliver hits that would probably radiates hulks body causing him to continuously heal himself, since he would probably not be able to keep up with Gohan's fast movement. 

The problem is, the Hulk (from what I've read up on recently) is so resilient any deadly blows he would get from Gohan would just be a stalemate by the Hulks resilient body and abilities. Over time, Gohan would run out of Ki, the Hulk would get angrier. Essentially making Gohan become mortal as his Ki decreased and the Hulk would reach his comic book known max potential, he would kill Gohan.

Now when we talk SSJ2 Gohan, we are talking typical SSJ2 that's an average power level in DBZ. Then, with what I have analyzed and said, is yes the Hulk could probably kill any SSJ2 fighter over a long massive battle.

Given Marvel has revamped the potential of the Hulk in the 21st century, we take the fight to Mystic Level Gohan and WWHulk. Now this is where things change dramatically. Mystic Level Gohan is some would argue the strongest fighter in DBZ at the very end, bar the fusion techniques (which make DBZ characters seem like GODS, that I could argue the Hulk wouldn't be able to even touch in WWHulk Form).   Personally I think SSJ3 Goku is more powerful than Mystical Gohan, judging by the anime and ignoring the power levels floating around the websites. Which is why I always liked SSJ4 Goku, since he would ultimately be the most powerful singular good guy.

Anyway, WWHulk is top 3 strongest in the Marvel Universe, probably the strongest. Mystical Gohan is the also in that area, so I'll cut to the chase.
Once Gohan reaches Mystical Level his Ki increases enormously. His power, his speed, his energy destruction reach a whole other level. WWHulk may have amazing abilities and powers that equal to Galactic proportions, but Gohan's Ki in DBZ is so large and so powerful that I think he would kill WWHulk with relative ease. WWHulk would put up a fight, and unleash all of his ultimate attacks, he would probably reach to anger levels never seen before, but the thing is Mystical Gohan's KI is so great that the Hulk would have a relatively tough time bringing his powers down. After a few world shattering moves by the hulk and healing abilities, Mystical Gohan would use his most deadliest moves and the KI alone would vapourize WWHulk in non existence.


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Nov 20, 2009)

WWH was defeated by freaking satellite lasers, hulk was knocked out by spiderman when he threw a truck to him by behind and in base form isnt that strong, he was defeated by abomination, gohan can throw ki ftl, and has obvious advantage speed, he can get behind green guy before he uses t-clap and throw ki attacks at the speed of light, also gohan can knock hulk before he becomes stronger, at base form he is only class 90, i dont say that hulk is going to lose here, but come on, it isnt rape either and gohan can at least make a tie


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Havoc said:


> Surfer, no.
> 
> But he has a chance against Thor.
> 
> *In fact, if Thor doesn't use some of his more exotic abilities from Mjolnir, Hulk can beat him*.



pretty mucy this time stopping atni matter frags

but honestly Thor should be able to KO hulk he's blown away worlds with a strong enough hammer toss...

@, Root....to long...just..too long..i mean..woah..holly cow L-O-N-G

i dunno whether to rep you for..the dedication of that post cause that was epic..or refute what i think you got wrong...because man if what little i could force myself read was wrong

my god..man..


----------



## Havoc (Nov 20, 2009)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> points and commas are use to express a stop or pause in the sentence they do not interfere in the understanding is not like im mispelling something i dont gonna ask you to understand what im saying that beyond the powers of humanity


Actually, a comma can change the meaning of a sentence.

The more you know.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 20, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> pretty mucy this time stopping atni matter frags
> 
> but honestly Thor should be able to KO hulk he's blown away worlds with a strong enough hammer toss...



I don't remember him blowing away a world.

I remember Stormbreaker destroying a world in a couple hits, which should mean Mjolnir can, but Hulk durability + healing > a big rock.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Havoc said:


> I don't remember him blowing away a world.



Thors done it..one time..some one else did when they deflected his shit

I'm talking seventies/eighties here 


Havoc said:


> I remember Stormbreaker destroying a world in a couple hits, which should mean Mjolnir can, but Hulk durability + healing > a big rock.



Well yeah...but at base form before he gets too cheesed off Thor should still be able to wreck hulks shit with a hit like that

well..Hulk

not say Freaking War hulk or something..


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 20, 2009)

WWH > Gohan> Regular hulk.


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Nov 20, 2009)

hadomaru said:


> WWH > Gohan> Regular hulk.



WWH was knocked by freaking satellite lasers and his only 2 worthy feats are preventing the destruction of a planet and beating an unimpressive sentry


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 20, 2009)

veget0010 said:


> WWH was knocked by freaking satellite lasers and his only 2 worthy feats are preventing the destruction of a planet and beating an unimpressive sentry



He let that happen though If I remember correctly, In fact If I recall he asked them to do it.


----------



## Genyosai (Nov 20, 2009)

Isn't Hulk just jobbing when he catches people much faster than him? If I recall, Spiderman has blitzed him more than once.

Don't know about WWH though.


----------



## Lucifeller (Nov 20, 2009)

veget0010 said:


> WWH was defeated by freaking satellite lasers



Freaking Shi'ar satellite lasers, and nearly everything the Shi'ar use is powered in some form by the M'Kraan crystal, which is a cosmic power source on par with the Phoenix freaking Force - y'know, force of cosmos that eats stars for a light snack?

Also, Hulk LET HIMSELF get knocked out. He blatantly invited Tony Stark to shoot him and stop him before he nuked the world, and did his damnedest to not offer any resistance. Even then, concentrated orbital bombardment only knocked him down, after he made himself a giant target in a specific attempt to be defeated.

Oh, and... ask yourself what Shi'ar satellites were doing orbiting Earth. Especially when the Shi'ar more than once threatened to destroy Earth should it become a hazard to the rest of the universe...

The implications of those things orbiting Earth aren't pleasant.


----------



## Hellspawn28 (Nov 20, 2009)

I think MikeU8 sums things up nicely, I can see Vegito or some the late Buu saga character wiping out a solar system maybe IMO, but not Cell. Their is a big power gab between him and how much ki it's takes to wipe out all of the Planets along with the sun in the solar system. And that the attack really did nothing really when Gohan chancled it out. It should have destroy part of the Planet as a side effect maybe?


----------



## Raigen (Nov 20, 2009)

Small note; When Gohan used his Kamehameha to blow back Cell's (before Cell exploded), Piccolo pointed out that despite all that power used, Gohan's energy hadn't been diminished at all. Only prolonged and excessive use of their power, or damage to the body will diminish their ki levels.

In any case, yes Kid Buu is not a galaxy buster. However, in Mystic Form after absorbing Gohan, he produced that giant energy ball that he stated as having energy taken from every planet he ever destroyed. It's very tricky to try and imagine just how much power that attack actually had. As far as the Manga history went, Buu was responsible for the destruction of every world in 12 of the 16 known galaxies in the DB-verse. How many planets that equates to could be incalculable. Even if the energy he took from each planet was only 1% from each world, the sheer number of planets he destroyed would bring it to levels many times beyond what even a maxed out Genkidama would possess. Despite that, Vegito easily stopped the attack and soccer-kicked it back at Mystic Buu. It's ridiculous, I know.

Anyway, orbital bombardment is sadly weak-ass garbage compared to what they were doing in DBZ. Frankly Roshi's maxed Kamehameha is better than that. So a blast from Gohan would pretty much put WWH out of commission.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 20, 2009)

The beam temporarily depowered Hulk, it didn't hurt him.

It's not even comparable to ki in anyway.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 20, 2009)

Holy shit, this is still going on?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Holy shit, this is still going on?



these threads need to shut down this one..and the cell one


----------



## Bender (Nov 20, 2009)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:
			
		

> Holy shit, this is still going on?





			
				The immortal Watchdog said:
			
		

> these threads need to shut down this one..and the cell one





^

Have you ever met a bigger DBZtard troll than Raigen 




Raigen said:


> Small note; When Gohan used his Kamehameha to blow back Cell's (before Cell exploded), Piccolo pointed out that despite all that power used, Gohan's energy hadn't been diminished at all. Only prolonged and excessive use of their power, or damage to the body will diminish their ki levels.
> 
> In any case, yes Kid Buu is not a galaxy buster. However, in Mystic Form after absorbing Gohan, he produced that giant energy ball that he stated as having energy taken from every planet he ever destroyed. It's very tricky to try and imagine just how much power that attack actually had. As far as the Manga history went, Buu was responsible for the destruction of every world in 12 of the 16 known galaxies in the DB-verse. How many planets that equates to could be incalculable. Even if the energy he took from each planet was only 1% from each world, the sheer number of planets he destroyed would bring it to levels many times beyond what even a maxed out Genkidama would possess. Despite that, Vegito easily stopped the attack and soccer-kicked it back at Mystic Buu. It's ridiculous, I know.
> 
> Anyway, orbital bombardment is sadly weak-ass garbage compared to what they were doing in DBZ. Frankly Roshi's maxed Kamehameha is better than that. So a blast from Gohan would pretty much put WWH out of commission.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 20, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> ^
> 
> Have you ever met a bigger DBZtard troll than Raigen



yes i have pencil/A

and the phenom brigade...

i can't tell whats more annoying..lunatics who invade you with a horde...make border line racist remarks now and again vanishes for a number of years then returns..with a fucking horde of morons...and rages against you like an unyielding ocean

or a dude who thinks..an advanced physics degree is important to mention in a fictional character debate..then goes on for pages about his intellectual supremecy tells you that you must respect his all mighty degree and just bashes you with endless stupiditly arrogant comments until you walk away and then calls it a vctory

Raigens vexing

but he does not give me heart burn the way the others do


----------



## God (Nov 21, 2009)

Guys, just stop. It's over, the OP won.


----------



## Hellspawn28 (Nov 21, 2009)

So the Hulk won right?


----------



## God (Nov 21, 2009)

Are you crazy? Gohan would destroy the Hulk.


----------



## R00t_Decision (Nov 21, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> In the end I think Gohan will defeat Hulk.





R00t_Decision said:


> After a few world shattering moves by the hulk and healing abilities, Mystical Gohan would use his most deadliest moves and the KI alone would vapourize WWHulk in non existence.





Michael Jacksőn said:


> Guys, just stop. It's over, the OP won.





Hellspawn28 said:


> So the Hulk won right?


..................................


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 21, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> So the Hulk won right?



yes yes he did

every one else who tried to fight it...is either trying to start a flame war

or a troll

or in it for the lulz...


----------



## God (Nov 21, 2009)

Gohan Mystic would totally mop the floor with Hulk.


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## God (Nov 21, 2009)

He's Mystic.


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## Judas (Nov 21, 2009)

You must be having fun Michael.


----------



## God (Nov 21, 2009)

Not really. I'm just trying to get a laugh out of this


----------



## Judas (Nov 21, 2009)

Oh well, Gohan for the MysticWTFPWN.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 21, 2009)

Michael Jacksőn said:


> He's Mystic.



if he had dreads..and a harem of women i'd agree


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## Bender (Nov 21, 2009)

Hulk has more hoes than Mystic Gohan will had... or will ever have..


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 21, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Hulk has more hoes than Mystic Gohan will had... or will ever have..



yes yes he does..and a man beard to boot

observe exhibit A


----------



## Gohan (Nov 21, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> yes yes he did
> 
> every one else who tried to fight it...is either trying to start a flame war
> 
> ...



And you call me arrogant. Already claiming victory as if your the oracle or something. 

Your so full of yourself you believe that people who disagree with you are 

-either trying to start a flame war

or a troll

or in it for the lulz...

No i just dont believe you because your whole argument is not convincing and you use the worse logic ever.


----------



## Kusogitsune (Nov 21, 2009)

Gohan's pretty fucked. Sure, he could blow up the earth to try to take out Hulk, but since he needs air to breathe, he'd die too.


----------



## Gohan (Nov 21, 2009)

Kusogitsune said:


> Gohan's pretty fucked. Sure, he could blow up the earth to try to take out Hulk, but since he needs air to breathe, he'd die too.



Not really since if Hulk tanks the blast then the earth wouldnt really blow up would it?


----------



## Kusogitsune (Nov 21, 2009)

Gohan said:


> Not really since if Hulk tanks the blast then the earth wouldnt really blow up would it?



Then Gohan's even more fucked, since blowing up the earth is pretty much his only chance.


----------



## Gohan (Nov 21, 2009)

Kusogitsune said:


> Then Gohan's even more fucked, since blowing up the earth is pretty much his only chance.



No as in his cells/body tanks most of the energy of the blast, breaking the hulk up.

For example japan tanking the A-bomb.

Hence the earth doesnt get blown up since most of the energy is used on the hulk.


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

You have absolutely no idea of what your talking about.


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## Omnirix (Nov 21, 2009)

Gohan said:


> No as in his cells/body tanks most of the energy of the blast, breaking the hulk up.
> 
> *For example japan tanking the A-bomb.
> 
> Hence the earth doesnt get blown up since most of the energy is used on the hulk.*



I don't get it either.......


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

it would take thousands, maybe millions of atom bombs just to LIFE WIPE. anyway, gohan's best ki attack would do nothing to hulk. gohan has no choice but attack hulk with physical attacks then because gohan likely isn't going to go for a kamikaze type attack, and then hulk tears him in half.


----------



## Genyosai (Nov 21, 2009)

Well, you can always use a would be earth busting attack fired away from the earth, ala Vegeta Final Flash.


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

Genyosai said:


> Well, you can always use a would be earth busting attack fired away from the earth, ala Vegeta Final Flash.



which would do nothing to hulk. also, gohan has no attack on the level of vegeta's final flash. by that, I mean he doesn't have an attack that concentrates so much ki and fires it off into such a huge blast. gohan's best is a super kamehameha.


----------



## Genyosai (Nov 21, 2009)

It could potentially push him into space with a little luck. Can Hulk get down from there?


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

no it wouldn't.


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 21, 2009)

I call bullsh*t on shoddragon


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

hadomaru said:


> I call bullsh*t on shoddragon



you know how hard it would be to push back world war hulk?


----------



## Genyosai (Nov 21, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> you know how hard it would be to push back world war hulk?



Can he push against the air? (This is a serious question, I'm not mocking)


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 21, 2009)

Realistically , he couldn't. He'd get shot into space, providing this doesn't take place in the time chamber. ANd its not like he wouldn't get a scratch from a super kamehameha. It wouldn't kill him, but still.


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

no, he probably wouldn't get scratched from it. this is world war hulk, one of the most powerful incarnations of hulk.


----------



## ? (Nov 21, 2009)

kamehameha to the suns should do the trick or just fly hulk sky into the sky and kick him into space with no air.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Nov 21, 2009)

Gohan said:


> No as in his cells/body tanks most of the energy of the blast, breaking the hulk up.
> 
> *For example japan tanking the A-bomb.
> 
> Hence the earth doesnt get blown up since most of the energy is used on the hulk.*



Simply... nope


----------



## Black (Nov 21, 2009)

Of course WW Hulk wins.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> no, he probably wouldn't get scratched from it. this is world war hulk, one of the most powerful incarnations of hulk.



ROFL... are you kidding me? Hulk will tank a Super-Kamehameha without being scratched? Thats just messed up man, Hulk isnt a god last I checked....
Also dont make assertions such as "tear in half" "punch to death" without first proving how Hulk can touch Gohan...

Hulk cant touch Gohan. Hulk cant fly. Gohan has hypersonic combat+reaction. 
Gohan goes for physical, lands some hits. Whether it does damage or not, Hulk cant react because Gohan is to fast, for every one punch he throws, Gohan dodges and inflicts five. 

Gohan goes to the air shoots some ki beams down at Hulk. Hulk gets pissed, jumps up to get Gohan, Gohan disappears and Hulk when in the air notices a small figure charging up a beam on the ground, to bad he cant get down in time, shot to the sun. BYE BYE HULK.

Also for the person who was arguing how Hulk has hypersonic reaction and speed that is bullshit, complete utter bullshit. Hulk tagging someone hypersonic does not make his combat and reaction hypersonic at all. I proved Gohans speeed and reaction time now you can go find the evidence that not exist of Hulk somehow punching and dodgeing at hypersonic speeds. Good luck, until then GOhan takes this.


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Nov 21, 2009)

Well gohans ki blasts are powerful. But it is important to prove first if the most powerful blast of Gohan is enough to overcome the durability of Hulk.

If not Gohan is screwed because powerful ki blast reduce significantly the energy, skills  and durability of warriors during a fight.  In dragonball ultimate attacks like a super kameha at much can be used 2 times per fight.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 21, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Also for the person who was arguing how Hulk has hypersonic reaction and speed that is bullshit, complete utter bullshit. Hulk tagging someone hypersonic does not make his combat and reaction hypersonic at all.



It shows he can hit Gohan.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

No, it doesn't. Not in any way was it shown those people were moving as fast as they could when Hulk struck them. It's a common occurrence in comics. It's how nobodies can hit Superman and why even Juggernaut can tag people like Thor. Also people forget that DB characters left the hypersonic speeds behind a long, long time ago, even before the end of the 1st series. Hulk is not touching him and the Z-crew was capable of planet-busting force by Saiyan Saga. Gohan was 6 1/2yrs old then, 7 by the time they hit Namek. He's 18 by Buu Saga.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

Havoc said:


> It shows he can hit Gohan.



No it doesnt...Not at all....

Running after someone at hypersonic speed is nothing and no where the same as punching at hypersonic speeds...Dont forget that Quicksilver obviously did not have hypersonic reaction which Gohan does. I agree with you that you do not have to have hypersonic punches to hit someone hypersonic but IF the person you are punching also has hypersonic REACTION than you CANNOT hit him because he will SEE it coming. That is how Z fighters keep up with eachother with their speed and reaction.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

MichaelUN89 said:


> Well gohans ki blasts are powerful. But it is important to prove first if the most powerful blast of Gohan is enough to overcome the durability of Hulk.
> 
> If not Gohan is screwed because powerful ki blast reduce significantly the energy, skills  and durability of warriors during a fight.  In dragonball ultimate attacks like a super kameha at much can be used 2 times per fight.



Yes I do think it can overcome Hulks durability. The Z fighters Ki waves are very important because they are EFFECTIVE against HIGHLY DURABLE opponents. That is what they are used for, that is their purpose, claiming it wont do anything to Hulk is completely ignoring when you take in that fact. For example, USSJ Vegetas punches didnt even phase perfect cell which is WHY he had to resort to the Final Flash... These attacks are meant for people with immense durability, a super kamehameha would vaporize Hulk and if not at least it would send him flying into space.


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

That is the worst form of circular logic I have ever seen.


----------



## Bender (Nov 21, 2009)

Seriously, can someone plz call a mod


----------



## MichaelUN89 (Nov 21, 2009)

Does not Hulk have good regeneration feats???


----------



## Lucifeller (Nov 21, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> ROFL... are you kidding me? Hulk will tank a Super-Kamehameha without being scratched? Thats just messed up man, Hulk isnt a god last I checked....
> Also dont make assertions such as "tear in half" "punch to death" without first proving how Hulk can touch Gohan...
> 
> Hulk cant touch Gohan. Hulk cant fly. Gohan has hypersonic combat+reaction.
> ...



Hulk tanked Cyclops's full power optic blasts at pointblank without even moving an inch. AT ALL. And that was even BEFORE World War Hulk.

Cyclops's optic blasts are concussive force in nature, meaning that yes, they pack momentum and SHOULD have blown him away, but they failed to do anything to him at all whatsoever.

And those are beams of energy packing enough power to level a mountain without much issue, so you can't even claim they are weak.

Finally, World War Hulk is INTELLIGENT. He can think, reason and make plans in advance. You are thinking of Savage Hulk, who acts without thinking at all. This is basically "Professor" Hulk on crack - Banner's intellect coupled with Savage Hulk's strength. Pretty much the strongest, most dangerous iteration of Hulk yet.



heavy_rasengan said:


> No it doesnt...Not at all....
> 
> Running after someone at hypersonic speed is nothing and no where the same as punching at hypersonic speeds...Dont forget that Quicksilver obviously did not have hypersonic reaction which Gohan does. I agree with you that you do not have to have hypersonic punches to hit someone hypersonic but IF the person you are punching also has hypersonic REACTION than you CANNOT hit him because he will SEE it coming. That is how Z fighters keep up with eachother with their speed and reaction.



Quicksilver SEES HIS ENTIRE LIFE in slow motion. Literally. Do you grasp this concept already? Do you know what that means in terms of reaction time?

Hint: bullet time. Everything that happens around him, he sees happening S L O W L Y. His reaction time is as crackish as can be, which is why usually it takes area-effect attacks that even he can't dodge to put him down.

Despite that, Hulk clocked him repeatedly, and Pietro even outright commented that he's way faster than anything that big has any right to be.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPbUcK8X6WY[/YOUTUBE]

If you wanna skip the panting and angry powering up of the attack, go right to about 7:14 in when Vegeta actually shoots the damn thing (and no it doesn't take this long in the manga). Either way, look at the size of that freakin beam.


----------



## hammer (Nov 21, 2009)

manga scans not anime


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## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

You're being picky for no reason. Happens same in both anime and manga.
here
here
here


----------



## hammer (Nov 21, 2009)

Raigen said:


> You're being picky for no reason. Happens same in both anime and manga.
> here
> here
> here



im picky because America dub is extremely inconsistent in general


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

> Hulk tanked Cyclops's full power optic blasts at pointblank without even moving an inch. AT ALL. And that was even BEFORE World War Hulk.
> 
> Cyclops's optic blasts are concussive force in nature, meaning that yes, they pack momentum and SHOULD have blown him away, but they failed to do anything to him at all whatsoever.
> 
> ...



Could cyclops optic blast panet bust? If not then it is not an issue at all. Also dont forget that the Z fighters Ki blasts are very different. Their purpose is to eliminated that Highly Durable opponent of theirs. They usually resort to an extreme ki blast after continuously fighting physically and realizing the durability of eachother. After that they realize they need a powerful Ki blast to break down that durability which is why I dont think the Hulk just tank it. 

And again, if cylcops optic blast is not at LEAST planet busting then it is useless.

I never said Hulk is unintelligent, He is smart but if he saw that Gohan could fly would he not try to jump? 



> Quicksilver SEES HIS ENTIRE LIFE in slow motion. Literally. Do you grasp this concept already? Do you know what that means in terms of reaction time?
> 
> Hint: bullet time. Everything that happens around him, he sees happening S L O W L Y. His reaction time is as crackish as can be, which is why usually it takes area-effect attacks that even he can't dodge to put him down.
> 
> Despite that, Hulk clocked him repeatedly, and Pietro even outright commented that he's way faster than anything that big has any right to be.



YES i know that, but that was not implied in the crossover. Any extremely powerful(such as Thor or SS) or extremely speedy(Quicksilver,SS) character that Hulk fights is completely weakened down to FIT his own WEAKNESSES. 

This being said, it also does not prove HULKS hypersonic COMBAT SPEEED OR REACTION!!!!!

Quicksilvers reaction time was obviously not implied in that situation for how would he not be able to dodge? 
If you HONESTLY think that the HULK has fucking hypersonic reaction time and speeds then you set the bar of comic book WANKING to the HIGHEST. This is just completely stupid.  Hulk is not hypersonic, not even his regular speed, him even CATCHING quicksilver regardless of reaction time or combat speed is INCONSISTENT because it HAPPENED only ONCE. You using that argument lets me use cells solar system busting and their FTL speeds.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

hammer said:


> im picky because America dub is extremely inconsistent in general



This wasn't about dub. Whatever was said there didn't have any impact on what actually happened, which was Vegeta's blast ripping across the planets surface and shooting into space at FTL speed.


----------



## Lucifeller (Nov 21, 2009)

This is Cyclops, tired and wounded, making a point of showing why he's the X-Men's boss by atomizing a Sentinel - and a chunk of the X-Men's property.

For the record, it's nowhere near his strongest feats. He can do worse.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

For the record, King Piccolo shits all over what Cyke can do.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 21, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> No it doesnt...Not at all....
> 
> Running after someone at hypersonic speed is nothing and no where the same as punching at hypersonic speeds...Dont forget that Quicksilver obviously did not have hypersonic reaction which Gohan does. I agree with you that you do not have to have hypersonic punches to hit someone hypersonic but IF the person you are punching also has hypersonic REACTION than you CANNOT hit him because he will SEE it coming. That is how Z fighters keep up with eachother with their speed and reaction.



You don't know anything about Quicksilver.

His reactions and movements are all hypersonic.

Hulk can hit people with hypersonic movement and reactions.  As he has shown he is able to.


----------



## Lucifeller (Nov 21, 2009)

Raigen said:


> For the record, King Piccolo shits all over what Cyke can do.



I did say that's not even his best feat, did I? Level best would be PUNCHING THROUGH GALACTUS'S ARMOR. Y'know, same armor that's not damaged in the slightest by WALKING INSIDE A SUPERNOVA.

I rest my case.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

TWF said:


> That is the worst form of circular logic I have ever seen.



Coming from a person who throughout the entire thread has only posted one sentence trolls...Circular logic can at least be better than NO LOGIC which is all you have demonstrated.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Nov 21, 2009)

for the record hu;k destroyed an asteriod 2x the size of earth with his bare fists and thunderclapped an entire dimension


----------



## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

Gonna need to prove that boyo. And frankly not impressive, especially when galactus is doubled over and dying of starvation. Frankly anyone can kick his ass at that point. Fuck I've seen a weakened, non-armored Juggernaut tank Cyke's blasts with no effect.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

Havoc said:


> You don't know anything about Quicksilver.
> 
> His reactions and movements are all hypersonic.
> 
> Hulk can hit people with hypersonic movement and reactions.  As he has shown he is able to.



No he hasnt shown he is capable of it at all. All it has shown is him catching ONE which is as inconsistent as Cell claiming solar system busting and DBZ characters going FTL. So if your going to bring that proof, then I will say that the characters go FTL and then your whole argument is shat on.

Hulk has never shown that type of speed aside from Quicksilver which was a crossover that made quicksilver look like a weakened douchebag.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

rawrawraw said:


> for the record hu;k destroyed an asteriod 2x the size of earth with his bare fists and thunderclapped an entire dimension



Yes and that shows that he can hit Gohan how? His thunderclap was when he was in a state of immense rage...He will be dead by then...Vaporized...or shot to the sun...


----------



## Lucifeller (Nov 21, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Gonna need to prove that boyo. And frankly not impressive, especially when galactus is doubled over and dying of starvation. Frankly anyone can kick his ass at that point. Fuck I've seen a weakened, non-armored Juggernaut tank Cyke's blasts with no effect.



Even when not armored, Juggernaut has Cyttorak's protection, which is magical in nature, and can't simply be brute-forced through. That protection is so strong it lets Cain shrug off BEING REDUCED TO A SKELETON.

And when Juggernaut had been depowered (ie Cyttorak revoked his protection), Cyke leveled him with his optic blasts in more than one occasion and Havok outright blew him away, which noticeably hurt him.

It should also be noted that Galactus's armor only ever sustained damage twice besides Cyke punching a hole in it with a concentrated blast. Once in Marvel Zombies, when Power Cosmic was stolen from the Surfer, amplified and fired at him in a concentrated burst (but the Marvel Zombies' Galactus was also flesh and blood, since he was eaten lol), and another time when he was first attacked by a creature from another dimension even more powerful than he was and then he got caught between two planets colliding, one of them stuffed to the gills with weapons in an attempt to kill him.

He survived the whole mess, and was really pissed and naked from the waist up. But earlier in that miniseries, he made a star go supernova and walked right into it, and his armor wasn't even singed.


----------



## Lucifeller (Nov 21, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> No he hasnt shown he is capable of it at all. All it has shown is him catching ONE which is as inconsistent as Cell claiming solar system busting and DBZ characters going FTL. So if your going to bring that proof, then I will say that the characters go FTL and then your whole argument is shat on.
> 
> Hulk has never shown that type of speed aside from Quicksilver which was a crossover that made quicksilver look like a weakened douchebag.



Hulk tagged Northstar as well, and Northstar is another speedster. He also, as mentioned, was having no trouble keeping up with Sentry, who has hypersonic feats all over the goddamn place.

He was also fighting Namor underwater EARLY IN HIS CAREER, and Namor goes retardedly fast underwater.

Face it, Hulk's feats of fighting people faster than he is and hitting them are consistent. It's just that most people see his size and go 'Oh, slow lumbering monster lololol'. Which he's not. He's way, way, way faster than he looks.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

This was when Juggs was with Excalibur and turned from Cyttorak, his powers were fading and weakening. Meaning he had no force-field and had no armor on at the time for protection. Also none of that points to Cyke's attack being stronger than a Supernova. Frankly every Herald can tank that and nothing saying Galactus didn't absorb energy from the SN. Dude multi-system busted after breaking his bonds in Annihilation and this was after he was being drained of his power to fuel weapons.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> Even when not armored, Juggernaut has Cyttorak's protection, which is magical in nature, and can't simply be brute-forced through. That protection is so strong it lets Cain shrug off BEING REDUCED TO A SKELETON.
> 
> And when Juggernaut had been depowered (ie Cyttorak revoked his protection), Cyke leveled him with his optic blasts in more than one occasion and Havok outright blew him away, which noticeably hurt him.
> 
> ...



I really, really cannot understand why you guys complain about DBZ fans using inconsistent feats when you guys do the exact same....Why complain about dbz being inconsistent when you are planning on beating it with inconsistent feats as well? Its just so stupid and annoying.

For example: "Cell has only been shown to be a planet buster and suddenly he can solar system bust when he had no previous feats of it?"

Now lets use your bullshit. Cyclops CANNOT destroy even a planet with his optic beam yet he destroyed armor that was unscathed by a supernova....? Come on....

OR

"Oh yea HULK is HYPERSONIC! because ONE TIME he caught someone HYPERSONIC even thought HE HAS NO previous feats at all of BEING REMOTELY HYPERSONIC"

ohhh wowww the credibility.....


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> Hulk tagged Northstar as well, and Northstar is another speedster. He also, as mentioned, was having no trouble keeping up with Sentry, who has hypersonic feats all over the goddamn place.
> 
> He was also fighting Namor underwater EARLY IN HIS CAREER, and Namor goes retardedly fast underwater.
> 
> Face it, Hulk's feats of fighting people faster than he is and hitting them are consistent. It's just that most people see his size and go 'Oh, slow lumbering monster lololol'. Which he's not. He's way, way, way faster than he looks.



I dont care if he TAGGED them, did HULK fight Northstar and sentry at HYPERSONIC speeds? As in, Sentry was punching at hypersonic speeds and reaction and Hulk was keeping up? Or same for Northstar?


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## Lucifeller (Nov 21, 2009)

Sentry was specifically not holding back at all and going full out against WW Hulk, and he routinely clears the distance between the ground and the stratosphere in a second or two and swats laser beans aside with his hands. I'm positive if he wasn't holding back, he was going hypersonic, which has circumstantial evidence in the fact the battle between the two caused a _hurricane_ simply from their movement as they attacked each other, which most people forget about that battle. It was bad enough that approaching them was impossible.


----------



## Havoc (Nov 21, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> No he hasnt shown he is capable of it at all. All it has shown is him catching ONE which is as inconsistent as Cell claiming solar system busting and DBZ characters going FTL. So if your going to bring that proof, then I will say that the characters go FTL and then your whole argument is shat on.
> 
> Hulk has never shown that type of speed aside from Quicksilver which was a crossover that made quicksilver look like a weakened douchebag.



Your example is flawed from the beginning, seeing as Hulk actually did it, not just claimed that he could.

Hulk consistently hits characters faster than himself, Namor, Thor, Gladiator, Sentry, Ironman, etc.  They all have hypersonic reactions and speed, with maybe the exception of Namor.  He also easily swats missiles out of the air.


----------



## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

You're wrong about things. For one, Sentry wasn't trying to beat or kill the Hulk. His only objective was 'stopping' him, and for solely that reason alone did it appear they were fighting on even ground. If Sentry truly had been going all out, there wouldn't be anything left of WWH. Hell Sentry would've launched his ass into the sun.

Also you're forgetting that hypersonic is slow. Go look at Piccolo Daimao vs Whitebeard. Got people going uncontested with King Piccolo being at least mach 20 (I believe faster, but not the issue). That's top end of high-hypersonic, and King Pic is absurdly weaker than Gohan is by Buu Saga. Frankly Gohan when Raditz arrived could've killed King Pic. Put it another way. Tien said that Goku's speed hadn't changed much since King Pic (meaning Goku was around mach 20 or so then). It's also stated that when DBZ'ers remove their weights, they're twice as fast. Basically if Goku was mach 20'ish with them on, he was mach 40'ish with them off. Not including his increase up to Raditz arrival, putting him and Piccolo somewhere around mach 50 with Raditz himself being mach 60 or higher. And that's being generous given that other evidence does suggest pointing closer to lightspeed with Piccolo's moonbusting.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 21, 2009)

this debate ended twenty one pages ago

Hulk murderstomps no one has been able to do anything to counter man this with out outright lies warping evidence and trolling

so fergetaboutit

edit-and i will say one thing for the gohan camp..Sentry's defeat against hulk was raw crap...their right about that...That being said that does not really matter..No one in the dbzu could hurt bob..and they'd last only a little bit longer then their lasting here


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 21, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> I dont care if he TAGGED them, did HULK fight Northstar and sentry at HYPERSONIC speeds? As in, Sentry was punching at hypersonic speeds and reaction and Hulk was keeping up? Or same for Northstar?



He doesn't need to, because 1 punch from Hulk is all it's going to take.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 21, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> this debate ended twenty one pages ago
> 
> Hulk murderstomps no one has been able to do anything to counter man this with out outright lies warping evidence and trolling
> 
> ...



lol yea right, no one has proven the speed disadvantage of Hulk. You guys are getting so desperate that you are using inconsistent shit like cyclops destroying armor that can survive supernova LOL, or hulks super combat speed and reaction LOL which is just pathetic.

Hulk cant touch Gohan.
Gohan super kamehameha=Hulk vaporize=GG


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## Lucifeller (Nov 21, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> lol yea right, no one has proven the speed disadvantage of Hulk. You guys are getting so desperate that you are using inconsistent shit like cyclops destroying armor that can survive supernova LOL, or hulks super combat speed and reaction LOL which is just pathetic.
> 
> Hulk cant touch Gohan.
> Gohan super kamehameha=Hulk vaporize=GG



Sigh.



> The Hulk is resistant to most forms of injury or damage. The extent varies between interpretations, but he has withstood the equivalent of *core solar temperatures*, nuclear explosions, and *planet-splitting impacts*. He has been shown to have both regenerative and adaptive healing abilities, including growing tissues to allow him to breathe underwater, surviving unprotected in space for extended periods (yet still eventually needing to breathe), and when injured, healing from most wounds within seconds.
> 
> His powerful legs allow him to leap into lower Earth orbit or across continents, and *he has displayed sufficient superhuman speed to match Thor, or the Sentry.* He also has less commonly described powers, including abilities allowing him to "home in" to his place of origin in New Mexico, resist psychic control, grow stronger from radiation or dark magic, and to see and interact with astral forms.



Please note the bold.


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## Mappa Douji (Nov 21, 2009)

Mystic Gohan should take this, considering it was decided Goku beat the Hulk here, I'd think some one stronger,faster, and more durable than Goku could do it. Not that Hulk will start off with Uber anger or anything.


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## Havoc (Nov 21, 2009)

Raigen said:


> You're wrong about things. For one, Sentry wasn't trying to beat or kill the Hulk. His only objective was 'stopping' him, and for solely that reason alone did it appear they were fighting on even ground. If Sentry truly had been going all out, there wouldn't be anything left of WWH. Hell Sentry would've launched his ass into the sun.
> 
> Also you're forgetting that hypersonic is slow. Go look at Piccolo Daimao vs Whitebeard. Got people going uncontested with King Piccolo being at least mach 20 (I believe faster, but not the issue). That's top end of high-hypersonic, and King Pic is absurdly weaker than Gohan is by Buu Saga. Frankly Gohan when Raditz arrived could've killed King Pic. Put it another way. Tien said that Goku's speed hadn't changed much since King Pic (meaning Goku was around mach 20 or so then). It's also stated that when DBZ'ers remove their weights, they're twice as fast. Basically if Goku was mach 20'ish with them on, he was mach 40'ish with them off. Not including his increase up to Raditz arrival, putting him and Piccolo somewhere around mach 50 with Raditz himself being mach 60 or higher. And that's being generous given that other evidence does suggest pointing closer to lightspeed with Piccolo's moonbusting.



Are you talking to me?

Well, even if you're not, you don't know what you're talking about in regards to Sentry.  I never said he wanted to kill Hulk, Hulk also didn't want to kill him.  Sentry is destroying Hulks body with his energy.

As for your speed calculations, post proof.  Also, post proof of Gohan's speed being mach60+.


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## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

I've been proving it since the start, you simply refuse it accept it, like everyone else who despises dbz. Piccolo beamed the moon, beam is roughly lightspeed. Same attacks are dodged by Nappa for cripes sake. Or hell, when used by a massively more powerful figure later in the series (Cell), SS2 Gohan backhanded the damn thing away. If attack is lightspeed/FTL and he effortlessly reacted to and deflected said attack, that proves ftl reaction. This has all been stated and done before. They were showing these kinds of things in early DBZ and, as I showed with scans, their attacks are that fast. Fuck Freeza's planet-cutter cut Namek in half in a second and this is a planet that's a good portion bigger than Earth.

All the evidence is against you guys and I find it odd that you don't come out of the woodworks in other threads that don't involve Marvel/DC chars.


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## Havoc (Nov 21, 2009)

Raigen said:


> I've been proving it since the start, you simply refuse it accept it, like everyone else who despises dbz. Piccolo beamed the moon, beam is roughly lightspeed. Same attacks are dodged by Nappa for cripes sake. Or hell, when used by a massively more powerful figure later in the series (Cell), SS2 Gohan backhanded the damn thing away. If attack is lightspeed/FTL and he effortlessly reacted to and deflected said attack, that proves ftl reaction. This has all been stated and done before. They were showing these kinds of things in early DBZ and, as I showed with scans, their attacks are that fast. Fuck Freeza's planet-cutter cut Namek in half in a second and this is a planet that's a good portion bigger than Earth.
> 
> All the evidence is against you guys and I find it odd that you don't come out of the woodworks in other threads that don't involve Marvel/DC chars.


By proof, I mean manga scans.

Show me scans of people going mach 60.  Preferably Gohan.

Why is it odd?  I read comics.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 21, 2009)

No timeframe was given for the attack reaching the moon, it is also an outlier since 99% of the time ki blasts don't move anywhere near that fast, and they are also readily perceivable by normal humans (who compared Trunks and Gohan's ki attacks to rockets firing in the Budokai).

Explain why it takes them several minutes to fly somewhere else on earth even at the end of the manga, and why tracking movement via displacement of air currents is still considered a viable tactic.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 21, 2009)

the answers pretty simple I'd think either their not as fast as others are claiming them to be..nor posses such destructive ability

and they want to ignore canon to push their own agenda

or they can try to make a good case for PIS

which i've actually seen done on some forums..but not here and not by theses guys


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## Raigen (Nov 21, 2009)

They weren't perceived by normal humans. Frankly every time they move they can't be seen by people even as far back as early Dragonball. The only time people notice the blasts is the train after it's fired or the explosion following contact. Also, how can you try and judge timeframe? It's not like it took years to freakin get there and obviously it had to have been within a few seconds for Gohan in DBZ to return back to normal so fast and same for Goku back during the Budokai when Roshi blew up the moon. If in either case it had taken longer Goku or Gohan would've done serious damage to the world, given they had no control and their power was 10x greater.

Also, flight time is PIS and mainly for story. Also it's a given their combat speed is greater than their flight/travel speed by leaps and bounds.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 21, 2009)

Raigen said:


> They weren't perceived by normal humans. Frankly every time they move they can't be seen by people even as far back as early Dragonball. The only time people notice the blasts is the train after it's fired or the explosion following contact.



Oh really?






 (in this one the announcer even manages to dodge it!)

I have dozens more where these came from.



> Also, how can you try and judge timeframe? It's not like it took years to freakin get there and obviously it had to have been within a few seconds for Gohan in DBZ to return back to normal so fast and same for Goku back during the Budokai when Roshi blew up the moon. If in either case it had taken longer Goku or Gohan would've done serious damage to the world, given they had no control and their power was 10x greater.



Which fits in my theory that ki blasts move faster outside of the atmosphere.



> Also, flight time is PIS and mainly for story. Also it's a given their combat speed is greater than their flight/travel speed by leaps and bounds.



Prove it.

Your argument is retarded because you are taking two incidents which act as complete outliers that are never reproduced again and contradicted many times and attempting to use them as a blanket rule.


----------



## kensfield (Nov 21, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Oh really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




lol prove it


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 21, 2009)

kensfield said:


> lol prove it



man sort of just did..


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 21, 2009)

Raigen's argument is analogous to saying "Iroh lightning-timed once so everyone in Avatar is relativistic". It just doesn't work that way.


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

Bender Ninja seriously did try to argue that at least once or twice.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 21, 2009)

kensfield said:


> lol prove it



He just did or we're you not paying attention.


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## MichaelUN89 (Nov 21, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Oh really?
> 
> * (in this one the announcer even manages to dodge it!)*



^LoL  Mike killed the light speed ki argument. Actually epic kill.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 22, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Raigen's argument is analogous to saying "Iroh lightning-timed once so everyone in Avatar is relativistic". It just doesn't work that way.



wait somebody actually claimed that?

can i has link?


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## ScreenXSurfer (Nov 22, 2009)

It's Manwe Sulimo, and I'm sure he takes it back.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 22, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> It's Manwe Sulimo, and I'm sure he takes it back.



i should hope so

based on their feats their probably comic book  peak human level  in reaction time..

but not..lightspeed


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## Hellspawn28 (Nov 22, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> (in this one the announcer even manages to dodge it!)
> 
> I have dozens more where these came from.



I believe that is a joke feat just like how Mr. Satan was able to doge a ki beam from Kid Buu.


----------



## Genyosai (Nov 22, 2009)

Yeah, because it pretty much refutes ki attacks being as fast as baseballs too.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 22, 2009)

MichaelUN89 said:


> ^LoL  Mike killed the light speed ki argument. Actually epic kill.



Yeah...thats kind of a joke...like how Mr. Satan gets dropped from ridiculous amount of heights and manages to survive...its just comic relief..

aside from that I dont think their beams are ALWAYS FTL but I think they can make it almost that fast. They have before.


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 22, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> Sigh.
> 
> 
> 
> Please note the bold.



Sigh.

Give me some real evidence on when Hulk is fighting those characters you claim. Just because those characters are fast does not mean they will fight at that level ALL the time against Hulk, in crossovers they weaken them down whether speed or strength. Did he hit a person that was FIGHTING with massively hypersonic speeds and reactions? Show me.


----------



## ?_Camorra_? (Nov 22, 2009)

Speed advantage wont matter,phact is that WWH thunderclapps Gayhan into oblivion.Not even the dragon's balls would be able to put him back togheter,atleast thats how i see it


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## heavy_rasengan (Nov 22, 2009)

?_Camorra_? said:


> Speed advantage wont matter,phact is that WWH thunderclapps Gayhan into oblivion.Not even the dragon's balls would be able to put him back togheter,atleast thats how i see it



Too bad as soon has hand go into clap formation, Gohan will be behind him charging up a beam on his back sending him into oblivion.


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## hammer (Nov 22, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Too bad as soon has hand go into clap formation, Gohan will be behind him charging up a beam on his back sending him into oblivion.



everyone in the dbz verse are ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who msut charge up there blows to do decent damage all hulk has to do is CLAP


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 22, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Too bad as soon has hand go into clap formation, Gohan will be behind him charging up a beam on his back sending him into oblivion.


Ummm... the thunderclap is omni-directional and how would Gohan know that Hulk doing it would be a very bad thing to begin with?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 22, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Too bad as soon has hand go into clap formation, Gohan will be behind him charging up a beam on his back sending him into oblivion.



that ends with hulk grabbing his face and crushing his skull kingpin style

really you have not proven anything here


----------



## hammer (Nov 22, 2009)

why has it not been brought up it takes freaking FOREVER to charge attacks that big?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 22, 2009)

hammer said:


> why has it not been brought up it takes freaking FOREVER to charge attacks that big?



Probably hasn't been taken into consideration, and not all Ki attacks take forever to charge...besides even if Gohan blasted Hulk into space, it's not like he'd die from it, as he's shown the ability to survive up there. 

Oh and Rasengan you should be aware, that if Hulk's tagged people who go Hypersonic and above, that would be putting his reaction speed, not his regular speed at Hypersonic as well, so it really wouldn't matter if Gohan came at him, as Hulk could react to it.


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## Raigen (Nov 22, 2009)

You're all quite mistaken. It takes no time at all to come up with attacks that massive and powerful. You're thinking the anime which intentionally drags out the charge-time in order to fill in the time slot. Same goes when they're powering up. It's just time-filler. Manga cuts that out entirely. It'll take less than a second, frankly less than a hundredth of a second for Gohan to let off a massive attack quite easily without his level dropping and blow away the Hulk.

You guys have a nasty habit of using anime filler to suit your own needs yet denounce it any time someone else tries to use it in proving speed or destructive force. I doubt you're even aware it only took a second for Vegeta to come up with a planet-buster on Namek, said attack which Freeza punted into space effortlessly at 1% of his power. You can make all the snide and flaming comments you want, but you have failed on every key point. Namely; Speed and power.

Gohan is ludicrously faster and more powerful than the Hulk. Yes the Hulk rules in pure Strength and the range of his durability, however it's virtually a non-factor as Hulk lacks the speed or ability to connect a blow on Gohan whereas Gohan can spam attacks on Hulk, any one of which will seriously injure or kill him. Thunderclap will not help as it can still be blocked/avoided and that still requires Hulk taking the time to put his hands together, time he simply does not have. you continue claiming he can keep up cause he's "hypersonic" and yet fail to understand that that speed level has been long overcome as far as DBZ is concerned.

You have qualms with Roshi moonbusting, a feat which puts his attack at roughly lightspeed, yet not much argument against Piccolo's moonbusting, which does the same thing and is a feat as far back as early Saiyan Saga nearly 6-7months before Vegeta and Nappa arrived. I cannot fathom how you can think that people who can use attacks at this speed level and have been shown to avoid/dodge and react to them aren't, in themselves, lightspeeders or faster. You have nothing aside from PIS, filler and pure spite going for you with nothing to actually disprove this simple point.

Not only this, but you continually and purposely ignore the blatant fact that DBZ characters are *faster in combat* than they are in flight. It's a basic and simple fact. Another thing pointing to that is their holding back, as shown in the series that even flying using more ki can affect the area around the, such as causing tidal waves and as Vegeta demonstrated on namek; tearing up the ground and even shattering hills.

And then, even when shown scans and evidence directly from the Manga itself which you hold in such high esteem, you claim some mindless garbage about how long it takes for the attack to hit or how long it was to go into space, etc. Even a child could see that no more than a few seconds or less could pass between those panels at the most. Because when you pull some ridiculous bullshit like that, it gets thrown back right at you. You can't possibly claim WWH to be hypersonic fighting any of these people when they're talking in the middle for 10min while fighting only one frame at a time. That would most definitely show that they're not moving fast at all and not even anything even remotely resembling hypersonic.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 22, 2009)

hammer said:


> why has it not been brought up it takes freaking FOREVER to charge attacks that big?



because according to these "oh so wise and objective " posters they are moving at high ftl speeds meaning that "taking for ever" really is just nano seconds ticking off

of course this is utter non sense and while gohan howling up a charge..Hull wont be standing there going "AHH WHAT IS THIS PPOOOWEERRR" for twenty minutes like DBZ villians do

and just rip his face off


----------



## R00t_Decision (Nov 22, 2009)

hammer said:


> why has it not been brought up it takes freaking FOREVER to charge attacks that big?


Charging up Ki in DBZ takes very little time. The anime is full of filler when it comes to powerups. In the new DB Kai, powers happen almost immediately.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Nov 22, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> because according to these "oh so wise and objective " posters they are moving at high ftl speeds meaning that "taking for ever" really is just nano seconds ticking off
> 
> of course this is utter non sense and while gohan howling up a charge..Hull wont be standing there going "AHH WHAT IS THIS PPOOOWEERRR" for twenty minutes like DBZ villians do
> 
> and just rip his face off



yea because he can touch him...show me evidence that Hulk fights and reacts at hypersonic speeds...I wanna see these hypersonic punches of his...


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 22, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> yea because he can touch him...show me evidence that Hulk fights and reacts at hypersonic speeds...I wanna see these hypersonic punches of his...



If he's managed to tag people who move at hypersonic speed and higher, repeatedly that would put his reaction speed at hypersonic, I don't see why you don't get that, he's fast enough to react to Gohan Ki blasts and hurl them back at him if he gets the chance.


----------



## Lord Stark (Nov 22, 2009)

Isn't Mystic Gohan is the strongest person in the DBZ verse sans Gogeta...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 22, 2009)

Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> Isn't Mystic Gohan is the strongest person in the DBZ verse sans Gogeta...



Mystic Gohan is the strongest non fused character in Dragonball, which means he gets trumped by Mystic-Super Buu and Vegetto.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 22, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> yea because he can touch him...show me evidence that Hulk fights and reacts at hypersonic speeds...I wanna see these hypersonic punches of his...



he does not need to touch him genus all he needs to do is AOE his ass


----------



## Judas (Nov 22, 2009)

As I posted before, a T-Clap and a couple solid punches are the only things needed.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 23, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> I believe that is a joke feat just like how Mr. Satan was able to doge a ki beam from Kid Buu.



He dodged a punch, but only because Mr. Buu was inside of Kid Buu and affecting his judgement. Humans constantly perceive ki beams, and DBZ fights in general, it's a lie that all DBZ fights take place at speeds too high to be perceived. Sure they can do that but only for short bursts, not for the entire fight.



Raigen said:


> You're all quite mistaken. It takes no time at all to come up with attacks that massive and powerful. You're thinking the anime which intentionally drags out the charge-time in order to fill in the time slot. Same goes when they're powering up. It's just time-filler. Manga cuts that out entirely. It'll take less than a second, frankly less than a hundredth of a second for Gohan to let off a massive attack quite easily without his level dropping and blow away the Hulk.




Prove it, because in the manga there are a bunch of huge charge up sequences where people make a big deal of it while it is happening.



> You guys have a nasty habit of using anime filler to suit your own needs yet denounce it any time someone else tries to use it in proving speed or destructive force. I doubt you're even aware it only took a second for Vegeta to come up with a planet-buster on Namek,



Vegeta never destroyed a planet.



> said attack which Freeza punted into space effortlessly at 1% of his power. You can make all the snide and flaming comments you want, but you have failed on every key point. Namely; Speed and power.



Wrong.



> Gohan is ludicrously faster and more powerful than the Hulk. Yes the Hulk rules in pure Strength and the range of his durability, however it's virtually a non-factor as Hulk lacks the speed or ability to connect a blow on Gohan whereas Gohan can spam attacks on Hulk, any one of which will seriously injure or kill him.



I can show you Hulk blitzing a guy in a way more impressive speed fight than 99% of DBZ.



> Thunderclap will not help as it can still be blocked/avoided and that still requires Hulk taking the time to put his hands together, time he simply does not have. you continue claiming he can keep up cause he's "hypersonic" and yet fail to understand that that speed level has been long overcome as far as DBZ is concerned.



Except you have fuck-all proof of that.



> You have qualms with Roshi moonbusting, a feat which puts his attack at roughly lightspeed, yet not much argument against Piccolo's moonbusting, which does the same thing and is a feat as far back as early Saiyan Saga nearly 6-7months before Vegeta and Nappa arrived. I cannot fathom how you can think that people who can use attacks at this speed level and have been shown to avoid/dodge and react to them aren't, in themselves, lightspeeders or faster.



Because those are outliers, 99% of the time ki blasts are not anywhere near as fast. I already proved this with scans. You also ignore the fact that they have never actually demonstrated anywhere near lightspeed. At all.



> Not only this, but you continually and purposely ignore the blatant fact that DBZ characters are *faster in combat* than they are in flight. It's a basic and simple fact. Another thing pointing to that is their holding back, as shown in the series that even flying using more ki can affect the area around the, such as causing tidal waves and as Vegeta demonstrated on namek; tearing up the ground and even shattering hills.



Yet the bad guys don't hold back, since they don't care about destroying stuff.

Then we have Goku tracking Yakon by air movements, you have never addressed this point, you keep dodging it.



> And then, even when shown scans and evidence directly from the Manga itself which you hold in such high esteem, you claim some mindless garbage about how long it takes for the attack to hit or how long it was to go into space, etc. Even a child could see that no more than a few seconds or less could pass between those panels at the most.



Why? Because you say so?



> Because when you pull some ridiculous bullshit like that, it gets thrown back right at you. You can't possibly claim WWH to be hypersonic fighting any of these people when they're talking in the middle for 10min while fighting only one frame at a time. That would most definitely show that they're not moving fast at all and not even anything even remotely resembling hypersonic.



WTF are you babbling about.

BTW look at this:

This robot Nova and Northstar are fighting demonstrates pretty much better speed feats than any DBZ fight has. They are fighting this thing across the entire country. Keep in mind Nova can reach FTL speed:

Reocrd 22 +reps for one thread(not OBD related though).
Reocrd 22 +reps for one thread(not OBD related though).
Reocrd 22 +reps for one thread(not OBD related though).
Reocrd 22 +reps for one thread(not OBD related though).

Nova says it's too damn fast for him to catch:

Reocrd 22 +reps for one thread(not OBD related though).

Hulk arrives and look what happens:





Now take this fucking DBZ wank and GTFO my OBD.


----------



## Shoddragon (Dec 2, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> He dodged a punch, but only because Mr. Buu was inside of Kid Buu and affecting his judgement. Humans constantly perceive ki beams, and DBZ fights in general, it's a lie that all DBZ fights take place at speeds too high to be perceived. Sure they can do that but only for short bursts, not for the entire fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Endless Mike again.


----------



## Heavenly King (Dec 3, 2009)

With a super Thunderclap the Hulk is able to deflect the Nightcrawlers sonics. Once deflected the sonics showed sufficient force as to destroy the entire otherdimensional cosmos. all citizens had to teleport to another dimension to survive. IH 126. gohan teleporting are is a no go people


King size annual 3: Hulk strikes the ground so hard that he sends shockwaves all the way from Colorado to Denmark (other side of the planet)

Also in Kind size annual 3: Hulk with another supersonic clap is able to produce a shockwave that “puts to shame the most powerful hurricanes in the history of the planet”


Secret WARs 2, #8: Beyonder searches for the Hulk and finds him in the desert. Hulk attacks the Beyonder. Beyonder puts the Hulk in stasis and begins to probe him. The Beyonder says of the Hulks inner potential:
“You are nothing but power incarnate! An infinity of power with no finite element inside!! Worse yet, you remind me of someone (himself)." 

I can show you Hulk blitzing a guy in a way more impressive speed fight than 99% of DBZ.

would like to see that scan mike p.s. my b for sending that pm


----------



## Raigen (Dec 3, 2009)

Why did you bother bringing this back up? Anyway, someone was whining about charge times for attacks. Well, I don't see any charge time for Raditz' multi-mountain busters and he's weak-sauce.
Link removed
Link removed

I don't see where you get this "huge charge time" from unless you're thinking the anime or times when characters *Held* their attacks back until it was time to fire them, like when USSJ Vegeta fought Cell and challenged him to stand his ground against the attack.


----------



## Captain America (Dec 3, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> He dodged a punch, but only because Mr. Buu was inside of Kid Buu and affecting his judgement. Humans constantly perceive ki beams, and DBZ fights in general, it's a lie that all DBZ fights take place at speeds too high to be perceived. Sure they can do that but only for short bursts, not for the entire fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, didn't know Hulk was that fast.  I'll have to go with the Hulk then.  Hulk ftw.


----------



## Hellspawn28 (Dec 3, 2009)

That was savage hulk, not WWH if I'm not mistaken since WWH is not as powerful as Savage Hulk IIRC?


----------



## Havoc (Dec 3, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> WWH is not as powerful as Savage Hulk IIRC?



What?

You have that backwards

Anyway, that's Professor Hulk.


----------



## Judas (Dec 3, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> That was savage hulk, not WWH if I'm not mistaken since WWH is not as powerful as Savage Hulk IIRC?



No, WWH is second only to War Hulk(who's amped by Celestial tech). Your probably thinking about The Professor.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 3, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> No, WWH is second only to War Hulk(who's amped by Celestial tech). Your probably thinking about The Professor.



Greg paks masturbated character was a monster of epic proprtions..author wank is your friend

that being said i find him to be the lamest hulk in terms of personality

though he did have a crowning moment of awesome when he punked X-23 and called her a shitty wolverine knock off

i miss classic hulk though when he would roar in third person and had those bad ass battle rants like when he kicked jugs ass

"BRAWWRR STUPID EGGMAN MAKE HULK ANGRY HULK WILL CRACK EGGMAN...AND BASH RAWWRRRR"

i miss that man


----------



## Judas (Dec 3, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Greg paks masturbated character was a monster of epic proprtions..author wank is your friend
> 
> that being said i find him to be the lamest hulk in terms of personality
> 
> ...



No one is more masturbated than Red Hulk. It's one of the reasons I don't want Loeb touching pen and paper.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 3, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> No one is more masturbated than Red Hulk. It's one of the reasons I don't want Loeb touching pen and paper.



jeff loeb wanted to be inolved in the up coing avengers movie...marvel said no

then he wanted  part in the new gl movie

dc told practically told him to eat a dick...

i think finally after ten years...their finally getting he needs to go....


----------



## Judas (Dec 3, 2009)

Going by Loeb standerds, Wolverine could go toe-to-toe with Galactus, it doesn't make sense. It's a good thing Marvel/DC are accepting that Jeph has over stayyed his welcome.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 3, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> Going by Loeb standerds, Wolverine could go toe-to-toe with Galactus, it doesn't make sense. It's a good thing Marvel/DC are accepting that Jeph has over stayyed his welcome.



what ever he's not nearly as bad as Garth Enis and his punisher wank and hating on super humans

that guy went over to dc once and was like "i wanna make superman a rapist and pedo..

and they told him to gtfo..


----------



## Havoc (Dec 3, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> what ever he's not nearly as bad as Garth Enis and his punisher wank and hating on super humans
> 
> that guy went over to dc once and was like "i wanna make superman a rapist and pedo..
> 
> and they told him to gtfo..


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 3, 2009)

^ 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> what ever he's not nearly as bad as Garth Enis and his punisher wank and hating on super humans
> 
> that guy went over to dc once and was like "i wanna make superman a rapist and pedo..
> 
> and they told him to gtfo..


Any sort of proof for this here anecdote?

And also, what Punisher wank. Nothing I've read through the entirety of Ennis's Punisher MAX run qualifies as wank. He gets beat on by Barracuda, the Mongolian and that old guy in the first arc, and he's shown to be very strong, skilled, durable and pain-resistant, not superhuman.


----------



## Havoc (Dec 3, 2009)

Not Punisher Max, that doesn't really have heroes in it.

but heroes in Ennis writing are usually dumbed down, like Spiderman and Wolverine.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2009)

> though he did have a crowning moment of awesome when he punked X-23 and called her a shitty wolverine knock off




Laura is awesome


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 3, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Laura is awesome



meh she's the better of rip offs i suppose





Lucaniel said:


> ^
> 
> 
> Any sort of proof for this here anecdote?



interview got posted on comicvine lj...and cbr back in 06..

Morrison ranted on it too it was funny

and...as far as Enis wank..you need to see him with super heroes 

you should also read his own comics jla analog...it's got all that shit in it

Enis hates super humans and will piss on them any chance he gets 


thats just wrong..but hilarious


----------



## Lucifeller (Dec 4, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> interview got posted on comicvine lj...and cbr back in 06..
> 
> Morrison ranted on it too it was funny



Link now. Please. Can't find it.


----------



## Heavenly King (Dec 4, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Why did you bother bringing this back up? Anyway, someone was whining about charge times for attacks. Well, I don't see any charge time for Raditz' multi-mountain busters and he's weak-sauce.
> Link removed
> Link removed
> 
> I don't see where you get this "huge charge time" from unless you're thinking the anime or times when characters *Held* their attacks back until it was time to fire them, like when USSJ Vegeta fought Cell and challenged him to stand his ground against the attack.




looks like he only destroyed a mountain top to me Link removed


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 4, 2009)

Havoc said:


> Not Punisher Max, that doesn't really have heroes in it.
> 
> but heroes in Ennis writing are usually dumbed down, like Spiderman and Wolverine.



That's what he's referring to? I thought he was saying that Ennis was writing Punisher way above his capability. Right.


----------



## evaunit001 (Dec 7, 2009)

gohan FTW
lets see gohan beat cell, who had enough power to destroy the universe


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 7, 2009)

evaunit001 said:


> gohan FTW
> lets see gohan beat cell, who had enough power to destroy the universe



why did you revive the thread?

and...yeah..Cell certainly he thought he had that level of power

didn't really show it though


----------



## Sazabi24 (Dec 7, 2009)

evaunit001 said:


> gohan FTW
> lets see gohan beat cell, who had enough power to destroy the universe





wow...


----------



## Judas (Dec 7, 2009)

evaunit001 said:


> gohan FTW
> lets see gohan beat cell, who had enough power to destroy the universe



I won't give this dignity of an insult.


----------



## hammer (Dec 7, 2009)

i sense a dupe


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 7, 2009)

Hulk is too busy making handparty to abe lincoln


----------



## Marcus Brutus (Dec 7, 2009)

hadomaru said:


> Hulk is too busy making handparty to abe lincoln



ewww that's nasty.


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 7, 2009)

Thats hulk.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 7, 2009)

evaunit001 said:


> gohan FTW
> lets see gohan beat cell, who had enough power to destroy the universe



Why'd the hell you necro this? hell you didn't evenn add anything to the opposing argument. And Cell can't even bust the Solar System (which was the original quote genius) he's nowehere fucking near universe level.

Lurk more...


----------



## Judas (Dec 7, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Why'd the hell you necro this? hell you didn't evenn add anything to the opposing argument. And Cell can't even bust the Solar System (which was the original quote genius) he's nowehere fucking near universe level.
> 
> Lurk more...



The guy had me laughing for a minute when he said Cell could destroy a universe. Ignorance is not bliss.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 7, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> The guy had me laughing for a minute when he said Cell could destroy a universe. Ignorance is not bliss.



makes me e wanna look for that drawing on Deviant art that had Odin fighting cell and buu

and them panicing and looking like they where about to piss themselves


----------



## Heavenly King (Dec 10, 2009)

evaunit001 said:


> gohan FTW
> lets see gohan beat cell, who had enough power to destroy the universe



the so called power that didn't even destroy earth at all


----------



## Hotcherie (Dec 10, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> makes me e wanna look for that drawing on Deviant art that had Odin fighting cell and buu
> 
> and them panicing and looking like they where about to piss themselves


He may be stronger, but he's much less cool.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 10, 2009)

IlikeKuriso said:


> He may be stronger, but he's much less cool.



huh? have you ever read some of the classic comics man?

"my son the power that will be unleashed will be beyond what these mortals can take as such i shall create a pocket universe to displace them in..until this battle be ended!!"

or "thou do not wish to see the true might of the lord of asgard for when i strike firm handed the souls of mortals burn to ash..and even gods fall before me"

he backs it up to

but those gotta be among the best pre battle trash talks


----------



## Endless Mike (Dec 10, 2009)

How is this not cool?


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 10, 2009)

EM is right, he is pretty Badass.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 10, 2009)

hadomaru said:


> EM is right, he is pretty Badass.



oh..and yeah thats santa clause in marvel comics..too (or used to be)

so yeah...one bad ass with a heart of gold

he was also fucking huge..i remember an unarmored odin standing up infront of thor...and The guys beer gut eclipsed thor and he couldn't even make it to odins chest


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 10, 2009)

damn, thats taller than Broly.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 10, 2009)

hadomaru said:


> damn, thats taller than Broly.



taller and wider much wider

but not more ripped i don't think


----------



## Judas (Dec 10, 2009)

Broly does roids, so of course he's more ripped.


----------



## Norrin04 (Dec 10, 2009)

IlikeKuriso said:


> He may be stronger, but he's much less cool.



Whats cool about a green egomaniac that likes to suck people up his ass and a fat pink guy that likes candy?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 11, 2009)

You could take every awesome aspect of every single DBZ character, remove all the unawesome, and just combine that into one single character, and he still wouldn't be as cool as Odin...or Thor.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Dec 11, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> The guy had me laughing for a minute when he said Cell could destroy a universe. Ignorance is not bliss.



LOL even im laughing at that


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Dec 11, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> You could take every awesome aspect of every single DBZ character, remove all the unawesome, and just combine that into one single character, and he still wouldn't be as cool as Odin...or Thor.



lol i dont know about that man. Them turning super saiyan is badass, werent you like holy fuck when you first saw Goku turning super saiyan? 
Also aside from the bitching, Vegeta is really badass.


----------



## hammer (Dec 11, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> lol i dont know about that man. Them turning super saiyan is badass, werent you like holy fuck when you first saw Goku turning super saiyan?
> Also aside from the bitching, Vegeta is really badass.



whats so badass of them screaming and turning blonde and blue eyed punks?

vegeta fails to be badass in comparisonin jsut the factor he wines he lost all badass ness in freeza saga


----------



## Havoc (Dec 11, 2009)

Vegeta is more badass than most of Marvel, stop lying to yourselves.


----------



## God (Dec 11, 2009)

Good one


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 11, 2009)

No, actually he is right. Some marvel and DC characters are badass, most aren't.


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Dec 11, 2009)

hammer said:


> whats so badass of them screaming and turning blonde and blue eyed punks?
> 
> vegeta fails to be badass in comparisonin jsut the factor he wines he lost all badass ness in freeza saga



Man the transformation is badass. The increase in strength, the glowing, the portrayal of emotion. It is all badass and completely unique. Also the timings are just perfect to make it even more badass. Yeah he does whine but his badassnesss makes up for it. 

Also, Vegeta is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more badass than thor can ever be. What a completely unoriginal character in marvel and the norse god/scandinavian prince or whatever is played out and gay. Thor does not even come close.

The most badass marvel character in my opinion is Magneto.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2009)

bad asses from marvel

Dr Doom

Magneto

Odin

Thor

Beta Ray bill (motherfucking beta ray bill)

Gladiator (when written properly)

Tyrant (jesus christ he was a bad ass)

Kingpin (especially old school)

Luke cage

The Punisher

Deadpool (fuck you wolverine you author wanked punk)

-----------------


DC

DR fate aka Kent "Rockstar" Nelson I

Superman (guy does have moments of raw awesome)

KC superman (almost everything he does)

Martian manhunter

Batman freaking batman

Alan Scott 

Cassandra Cain

Guy Gardener

Kilowog 

Black Adam

DeathStroke

----------------------

DBZ

Tien 

Vageta 

Piccolo

Roshi (back in the day any ways)


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Dec 11, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> bad asses from marvel
> 
> Dr Doom
> 
> ...



your forgetting fat buu LOL, that was one badass mofo.

Actually all the Buus are badass except ultimate buu. hes gay.

Frieza is debatable...

and for Marvel I would add Iron man and Venom. They are crazy.


----------



## God (Dec 11, 2009)

hadomaru said:


> No, actually he is right. Some marvel and DC characters are badass, most aren't.



Um nope      .


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Dec 11, 2009)

Michael Jacksőn said:


> Um nope      .



umm yea..unless your a fan of Jubilee and Squirrel girl...


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> your forgetting fat buu LOL, that was one badass mofo.
> 
> Actually all the Buus are badass except ultimate buu. hes gay.
> 
> ...



The buus wheren't bad ass they where nuts...same reason i hesitated adding deadpool and didn't add joker

tony is a sell out traitor and a little bitch...who i hope Thor or captain America kills for the bullshit he pulled during civil war


and venom dances between bad ass and crazy emo physco..


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 11, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> bad asses from marvel
> 
> Dr Doom
> 
> ...



Where the fuck is Darkseid, Hal Jordan, Captain Marvel, and countless others?

You even forgot Jonah Hex.


----------



## Judas (Dec 11, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> bad asses from marvel
> 
> *Dr Doom*





For those who don't know, the guy on the right is Captain America(Steve Rogers) in uniform.


----------



## hammer (Dec 11, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> your forgetting fat buu LOL, that was one badass mofo.
> 
> Actually all the Buus are badass except ultimate buu. hes gay.
> 
> ...



fat buu and freezza are not debatable

fat buu:I WANT CANDY BAWWW

freeza: i wear lipstiuck

iron man is  a pussy traitor


----------



## heavy_rasengan (Dec 11, 2009)

hammer said:


> fat buu and freezza are not debatable
> 
> fat buu:I WANT CANDY BAWWW
> 
> ...



hahaha sorry im not up to date with iron man he just seems bad ass. lol Buu made a fucking house from clay that came from transmuted people...that is pretty badass man. lol yea i dont know about frieza.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 11, 2009)

hammer said:


> fat buu and freezza are not debatable
> 
> fat buu:I WANT CANDY BAWWW
> 
> ...



Wrong Tony's a retard traitor now . He killed his own brain.


----------



## hammer (Dec 11, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> hahaha sorry im not up to date with iron man he just seems bad ass. lol Buu made a fucking house from clay that came from transmuted people...that is pretty badass man. lol yea i dont know about frieza.



iron man started a war with super heros


if anything reed richards would be up there for creating a robot thor

freeza is just not debatable  lmao


----------



## Judas (Dec 11, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> hahaha sorry im not up to date with iron man he just seems bad ass. lol Buu made a fucking house from clay that came from transmuted people...that is pretty badass man. lol yea i dont know about frieza.



Dr. Doom made armor from his past lover's skin.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2009)

Bluebeard said:


> Where the fuck is Darkseid, Hal Jordan, Captain Marvel, and countless others?
> 
> You even forgot Jonah Hex.



holy shit..how could i have forgotten hex and SHAZAM and captain marvel..god damn

dude hex!!

no but the reason i didn't include darkseid is because writers turned the guy into something painful and sad

and i didn't wanna add PC darkseid..because then the computer would explode from so much..bad ass


----------



## hammer (Dec 11, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Wrong Tony's a retard traitor now . He killed his own brain.



I actully need to read the storys i only read civil war and marval zombies


wtf did tony do


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2009)

hammer said:


> iron man started a war with super heros
> 
> 
> if anything reed richards would be up there for creating a robot thor
> ...



i lump richards in the same tier as tony..pussy traitors who need to get their shit ruined for what they did

richards i think also has abused his wife




AeroBlitz1316 said:


> For those who don't know, the guy on the right is Captain America(Steve Rogers) in uniform.



thats fucking awesome


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 11, 2009)

hammer said:


> I actully need to read the storys i only read civil war and marval zombies
> 
> 
> wtf did tony do



Norman Osborn (he now runs Shield...er Hammer now actually) came knocking for the Superhuman registration files, but They were lodged in Tony's brain, so Stark went on the run and eventually slowed down enough to kill most of his brain so nobody could ever get the files. as a result of this Tony can only use the Mark 0 armor you know his first armor he made in Korea.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 11, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> i lump richards in the same tier as tony..pussy traitors who need to get their shit ruined for what they did
> 
> richards i think also has abused his wife
> 
> ...



Richards has slapped his Sue before, but that was when she was evil...and said slap made her stop for some wierd reason.


----------



## hammer (Dec 11, 2009)

oh wow that is so much fail in that


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Richards has slapped his Sue before, but that was when she was evil...and said slap made her stop for some wierd reason.



aren't their others?

Reed's ability to be a caustic dick knows no bounds


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 11, 2009)

Do not doubt Reed's pimpslappery

let it be his wife




His brother (or uncle)



Or himself


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 11, 2009)




----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Dec 11, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> bad asses from marvel
> 
> Dr Doom
> 
> ...


Marvel list lacks Nova, Star-Lord, and Ronan(pre-Conquest, obviously ), but is still really fucking awesome.


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 11, 2009)

DBZ list is Lacking Bardock and Vegito and Goku.


----------



## Norrin04 (Dec 11, 2009)

How could you forget Lobo.


----------



## Untitled (Dec 11, 2009)

Where the hell has this thread gone?


----------



## Judas (Dec 11, 2009)

Untitled said:


> Where the hell has this thread gone?



It's a clusterfuck, the debate ended a long time ago.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2009)

Norrin04 said:


> How could you forget Lobo.



i feel like dying a little inside now...

how could i left that dude out

and i just got done readint he cross over where he trolls the authority too..


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## Judas (Dec 11, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> i feel like dying a little inside now...
> 
> how could i left that dude out
> 
> and i just got done readint he cross over where he trolls the authority too..



You forgot the Main Man! Stone the sinner!


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2009)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> You forgot the Main Man! Stone the sinner!



i know

fuuucck...

i'll have to prey for forgiveness to the all mighty lobo


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## Norrin04 (Dec 11, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> i know
> 
> fuuucck...
> 
> i'll have to prey for forgiveness to the all mighty lobo



Lobo is badass though...


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## Untitled (Dec 11, 2009)

This is actually fairly entertaining. 

[QUOTE="AeroBlitz1316']It's a clusterfuck, the debate ended a long time ago.[/QUOTE]

Yay for clusterfucks..


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## Lucifeller (Dec 12, 2009)

heavy_rasengan said:


> Also, Vegeta is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more badass than thor can ever be. What a completely unoriginal character in marvel and the norse god/scandinavian prince or whatever is played out and gay. Thor does not even come close.
> 
> The most badass marvel character in my opinion is Magneto.





I'm sorry, I can't HEAR your claims of Thor being less badass than Vegeta over the epic beating he inflicted on Iron Sellout.

For the record, it rapidly gets worse for Tony from that page onwards. Especially when Thor busts out the lightning bolts.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 12, 2009)

Thor could be badass, if he didn't wear that freaking helmet.


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## Glued (Dec 12, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> bad asses from marvel
> 
> Dr Doom
> 
> ...


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## Genyosai (Dec 12, 2009)

People saying Vegeta is more badass than Thor... I don't think so. He's hotblooded and drove the story, but I didn't really find him that badass because that has to include some level of respect (and even villains get it). 
I found him to be an angsty classist asshole who couldn't let go of the fact that someone could be better than him. If anything, Goku's grinning dismissal and overall character optimism towards someone being stronger than him makes him the badass, even with the woman voice actor and overall passiveness when not fighting.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 12, 2009)

i thought i mentioned Ben?


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## Havoc (Dec 12, 2009)

Genyosai said:


> People saying Vegeta is more badass than Thor... I don't think so. He's hotblooded and drove the story, but I didn't really find him that badass because that has to include some level of respect (and even villains get it).
> I found him to be an angsty classist asshole who couldn't let go of the fact that someone could be better than him. If anything, Goku's grinning dismissal and overall character optimism towards someone being stronger than him makes him the badass, even with the woman voice actor and overall passiveness when not fighting.



You think Goku is badass?


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## Hellspawn28 (Dec 13, 2009)

Why is this still thread still going on? We already argeed that WWH would win this.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 13, 2009)

Havoc said:


> You think Goku is badass?



Hey, he's way more badass than anyone in Naruto or Bleach (save perhaps Kenpachi).

Anyway the Spectre is a DC badass that has been neglected in this thread.

Although I think Kenshiro is the most badass character of all time.

(I wonder if I'll regret bumping this thread because some noob who hasn't read any of it will just come in and start making stupid arguments).


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 13, 2009)

^ Did someone call for  a noob?


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## Big Bοss (Dec 15, 2009)

gohan wins he is faster than light!!!! ....na just messing around Hulk rapes him easely.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 15, 2009)

Damnit, you necroed it again!


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## Azure Flame Fright (Dec 15, 2009)

I don't like this thread.


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