# Itachi vs Sannin



## Kakashi Hatake (Jul 24, 2013)

Serious posters only. 

*Restriction*: Izanami, Koto, Edo Tensei, Shiki Fujin
*Distance*: 15m
*Location*: Sannin Battlefield
*Knowledge*: Reputation ONLY 
*SoM*: IC

Itachi is healthy with perfect Eye sight.
Orochimaru is healthy.

Who wins?


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jul 24, 2013)

Itachi gets his head caved in. There's only a few shinobi capable of defeating all 3 sannin at once and Itachi isn't one of them.


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## Jad (Jul 24, 2013)

Wait, I am confused.

One Sannin or all three?


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## Turrin (Jul 24, 2013)

The Sannin rape. Between Orochimaru, Tsunade and J-man they essentially have full knowledge on Itachi's abilities. 

Itachi's Katon's get owned by Toad's Suitons
Itachi's good in CQC, but facing Tsunade, J-man, and Orochimaru there he is totally outclassed
Itachi's Three Tome and Finger Genjutsu get broken out of via partner method, and if anyone even falls into Itachi's Tsukuyomi Tsunade's medical ninjutsu heals the effects as it did for Sasuke. Though most likely the Sannin would simply block LOS relying on their various means of detection to fight.
Amaterasu - Shima Senses it coming and the Sannin block LOS, a Roshomon Gate, Wave of Snakes, Dust Cloud, etc... would all work fine
Susano'o - Jiraiya stuns Itachi with Frog Call and Orochimaru or Oro KB using Leech all creation stabs Itachi to death from underground. Or they use Frog Song. Or they use White Snake Poison. Or they simply outlast it with various defenses.

Itachi got nothing on the collective Sannin. Each one of the Sannin solo would present massive difficult for Itachi to defeat & in the case of J-man it's not even clear if he would defeat him. All three together are so powerful that only the absolute God-like Ninja of the Narutoverse stand any chance of winning against them.

Edit; even with just rep to go on nothing changes as all of this can be performed with only rep.


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## Lawrence777 (Jul 24, 2013)

given the lack of knowledge the sannin are going to get picked off by mangekyou starting with Tsunade (since Itachi because of rep knows she's the mednin)

They don't have the appropriate tools to just deal with Tsukiyomi/Amaterasu/Susanoo on the fly without knowledge. If they started with knowledge then it'd be different.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 24, 2013)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> *Distance*: 15m
> *Location*: Sannin Battlefield
> *Knowledge*: Reputation ONLY
> *SoM*: IC



Fairly-reasonable starting distance, no cover, and minimal intel...

Yeah, this is not a good setup for the Sannin; Itachi is someone you need a lot of specific knowledge to beat. His Jutsu don't leave any room for trial-and-error unless they can be observed on someone else or experienced and escaped, which isn't likely aside from Orochimaru shedding Amaterasu. Experiencing the Totsuka no Tsurugi or Tsukuyomi, for the Sannin, means they just lost a teammate (and, unless it's used on Orochimaru, the same can be said of Amaterasu).

The Sannin aren't pushovers and they have plenty in the way of offense and defense between the three of them, but Itachi trumps them in both regards and in speed as well. All they really have going for them is their collective versatility and brainpower, but Itachi's sharper than any of them individually and he's got the hax to compensate for having fewer techniques at his disposal. The Sannin have an utterly massive stamina advantage, but that's not really going to become a meaningful asset unless all three of them manage to stay alive long enough for Itachi's performance to take a significant drop.

That won't happen until he's cranked out three or four MS Jutsu, though, and that's incredibly dangerous with only reputation knowledge available. The Sannin have their share of nasty surprises, but most of what they bring to the table can simply be dodged or blocked on reflex; that isn't the case with Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu.

And, unlike the Sannin, Itachi can compensate for any mistakes by letting Susano'o take the hit for him whenever he's in danger.

The outcome of this match really depends on how both sides play their respective hands, but I think Itachi's better-equipped under these circumstances and that his chances are favored more often than not.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 24, 2013)

Itachi takes this mid difficulty.

Knowledge = Reputation = Sannin don't know shit about MS powers or Itachi's genjutsu prowess.

There are a handful of characters who has a shot @ defeating Itachi without knowledge, and Sannin, even when together, aren't a part of those people.


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## Augustus Haugerud (Jul 24, 2013)

> Itachi takes this mid difficulty.
> 
> Knowledge = Reputation = Sannin don't know shit about MS powers or Itachi's genjutsu prowess.
> 
> There are a handful of characters who has a shot @ defeating Itachi without knowledge, and Sannin, even when together, aren't a part of those people.



You sure do support Itachi a lot...

Itachi may be stronger than any of the Sannin alone, but seriously there's no way he can take on all 3. If the knowledge was manga I'm pretty sure Oro would provide plenty of knowledge, he is obsessed with learning all of the jutsu in the world after all.. 

  One thing I strongly believe in is even if in a mechanical way of thinking one character will win, would reputation really allow that? You'd think x would have a jutsu that would simply end y, but if they encounter one another in the story there will usually be something that makes it not so simple.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 24, 2013)

Augustus Haugerud said:


> You sure do support Itachi a lot...


Do I ?


> Itachi may be stronger than any of the Sannin alone, but seriously there's no way he can take on all 3


under these stipulations here, he surely can.



> If the knowledge was manga I'm pretty sure Oro would provide plenty of knowledge, he is obsessed with learning all of the jutsu in the world after all.


. 
Sure but the knowledge is specified to be reputation only, so that means no one here has exclusive knowledge on anyone.



> One thing I strongly believe in is even if in a mechanical way of thinking one character will win, would reputation really allow that? You'd think x would have a jutsu that would simply end y, but if they encounter one another in the story there will usually be something that makes it not so simple.



It surely would. 
Have you seen how Oro ended up against Itachi when he faced him off without exclusive knowledge ? He got genjutsu'd,  lost his hand, and was sent home tail between legs. 
That was an 11/13 year old Itachi without killing intent.

So yeah, Sannin would get decimated if they tried to take Itachi on without exclusive knowledge.


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## Veracity (Jul 24, 2013)

Sannin take this quite handly. Tsunade and Oro with their boss summoning can hold off Itachi as J-man preps SM. from there on its over.

I mean honestly, Jirayia alone defeated 3 pains with very minimal knowledge. 

Now we have 3 Sannin(who have experience working together) + all of their summonings. 
I don't think Itachi has a chance this time.


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## Empathy (Jul 24, 2013)

Why is _Shiki Fujin_ restricted?


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## tanman (Jul 24, 2013)

This thread is done quite a bit.



Empathy said:


> Why is _Shiki Fujin_ restricted?



My question as well.


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## Sadgoob (Jul 24, 2013)

Empathy said:


> Why is _Shiki Fujin_ restricted?





tanman said:


> My question as well.



Itachi Orochimaru can summon it.


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## Trojan (Jul 24, 2013)

Itachi flee as in canon from Jman alone. Against all 3 miss Itachi may get pregnant from all that rape.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Jul 24, 2013)

I have always seen Itachi as stronger than the Sannin. I made this thread quite some time ago when Jiraiya vs Itachi was still a hot topic and it instantly got locked. 

Now I know many people think Itachi can beat them, going by the type of fighter he is, he could beat them while his sick. 



Empathy said:


> Why is _Shiki Fujin_ restricted?



Maybe, in case people think Orochimaru can use it.


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## Kanki (Jul 24, 2013)

Itachi's reputation has changed throughout the series as more characters have seen what he can do.
I assume it's the rep he had at the start of the series? Otherwise he gets raped horribly by the numbers game.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Itachi gets curbstomped. Jiraiya alone is his equal (by Itachi's own fricken admission), with Orochimaru and Tsunade there as well? Nothing Itachi can do will win. He's overwhelmed by three high powered, highly intelligent ninja, his genjutsu fails since its three on one, and his MS techniques drain him too much.

Itachi isn't a god of the Narutoverse. He isn't on the same tier as KCM Minato, BM Naruto, Nagato, Hashirama, Rinnegan Obito or EMS/Edo Madara, since these characters are the only ones strong enough to defeat all three Sannin at the same time.


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## Kai (Jul 24, 2013)

With only reputation knowledge on the table it pretty much takes all three members of the Sannin to make it a debate against Itachi. They are equipped with counters against his MS jutsu but without given specificity they will use counters on what they believe the attacks seem to be, but are in fact not viable to stand against his jutsu. Perfect example of a false counter is Orochimaru tanking the strike of Itachi's sword slash, but had no idea that it was the Totsuka blade which contained sealing properties.

Another case that was covered in early part 2 is the matter of Itachi's Tsukuyomi. While conventional genjutsu defense works in most textbook cases (adjusting chakra flow, partner method), it is absolutely useless against Tsukuyomi as explained by Kakashi to those blissfully unaware. It is safe to assume that Jiraiya, the one who informed us of such methods, will be using these methods he described against Tsukuyomi with only reputation knowledge.

Amaterasu can't be countered if it is not expected.

Totsuka will end Tsunade just as easily as Orochimaru based on the fact similarity of Oro tanking attacks with substitution techniques and Tsunade tanking attacks with regeneration techniques. Her fighting behavior against Madara shows she's not afraid to allow regeneration to cover sword blows dealt by Susano'o.

Setting reputation knowledge resets Itachi as an invincible figure he used to be portrayed as in Part 1 and early Part 2. They are all susceptible to getting one shotted. Of course, with full or manga knowledge, Itachi ending it so quickly against knowledge applied to counters for his Mangekyo would be impossible.


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## Augustus Haugerud (Jul 24, 2013)

Ok I agree that Sannin take this, but I see some people saying J-man can take him on by himself. Please note people that Itachi wasn't being honest when he said that, he was downplaying his abilities to avoid a serious attempt to capture Naruto.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

Augustus Haugerud said:


> Ok I agree that Sannin take this, but I see some people saying J-man can take him on by himself. *Please note people that Itachi wasn't being honest when he said that, he was downplaying his abilities to avoid a serious attempt to capture Naruto.*



That's what I thought too. Itachi was holding back a lot up until the time he was reanimated. Once he didn't feel that need to do so anymore, he was able to go at it with Negato, who had all six paths of Pain in one body. He even let Sasuke win their fight with the belief that he actually surpassed him so that his hatred would subside. 

Am I the only one who thinks that Itachi wins this? Orochimaru was nothing to him. Even if he's the weakest, I don't see how Tsunade and Jiraiya are supposed to get passed Susano'o while defending against Amaterasu.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Augustus Haugerud said:


> Ok I agree that Sannin take this, but I see some people saying J-man can take him on by himself. Please note people that Itachi wasn't being honest when he said that, he was downplaying his abilities to avoid a serious attempt to capture Naruto.


Except he kind of _thought_ that. And not only that, Kisame would have known he was lying: they were paired together due to his past of killing comrades. Not only that, Jiraiya's feats against Nagato validate Itachi's fears, and Sage Mode (which Jiraiya knows) is tough for Itachi to even fight in the first place.

Jiraiya has consistently been shown to be Itachi's equal.



Transcendent Samurai said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that Itachi wins this? Orochimaru was nothing to him. Even if he's the weakest, I don't see how Tsunade and Jiraiya are supposed to get passed Susano'o while defending against Amaterasu.


You kind of are. Itachi doesn't take it. Orochimaru 'nothing to him'? Itachi faced Orochimaru when he was WEAKENED and won, that doesn't mean Orochimaru isn't a threat at all. And...there are SEVERAL moves Jiraiya has in his arsenal against Susano'o, Tsunade has the strength to break through it, and Orochimaru has the counters for Amaterasu.

Itachi isn't that strong. Don't wank him.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And...there are SEVERAL moves Jiraiya has in his arsenal against Susano'o



Mind describing them? My memory is really hazy.



> Tsunade has the strength to break through it



Ok. I believe that.



> and Orochimaru has the counters for Amaterasu.



Again, can you be more specific?



> Itachi isn't that strong. Don't wank him.



Who's wanking? I'm just not that familiar with the sannin's feats because I've never reread the Naruto chapters. I didn't "succumb" to any fanboyism. That post was my own thoughts. And you don't need to cut my rep just because I was asking for feedback on my opinion.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> Mind describing them? My memory is really hazy.


Doton: Yomi Numa, Senpō: Kawazu Naki, Senpo: Gamarinsho. Doton: Yomi Numa forms right under Itachi's feet inside Susano'o and since he's inside it, Susano'o can't yank him out. Susano'o also doesn't defend against sound, and Kawazu Naki can paralyze both Susano'o and Itachi momentarily, while Gamarinsho puts him into a genjutsu he can't break.



> Again, can you be more specific?


Orochimaru-style Body Replacement, since Orochimaru can use it far more than Itachi has shots for it.




> Who's wanking?


Suggesting Itachi can defeat all three Sannin at once, and that Orochimaru is no threat to him is wanking. Itachi isn't on that level of power and he has never been.


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

Jiraiya also restrained and killed a summon with his hair, may be an option here.


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## blk (Jul 24, 2013)

With reputational knowledge only, it seems unlikely for the Sannin to be able to survive a sudden usage of the MS, such as:

- Sudden Susano'o activation at short-mid distances [1 ; 2];

- Tsukuyomi;

- Massive Amaterasu shots [3 ; 4  ; 5 ; 6 ;7].

Definetly, the most dangerous MS ability in this situation for the Sannin is Amaterasu, which has the capability of one-shot Jiraya and Tsunade at the same time with a single wave.

So, depending on what Itachi uses first, this fight might be won by him with low/mid difficulty after not much time, or won with high/extreme difficulty after a tiresome battle, or simply lost.


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## BrokenBonds (Jul 24, 2013)

All three Sannin..?

This thread makes me sick.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Doton: Yomi Numa, Senpō: Kawazu Naki, Senpo: Gamarinsho. Doton: Yomi Numa forms right under Itachi's feet inside Susano'o and since he's inside it, Susano'o can't yank him out. Susano'o also doesn't defend against sound, and Kawazu Naki can paralyze both Susano'o and Itachi momentarily, while Gamarinsho puts him into a genjutsu he can't break.



Ok. So Tsunade and Jiraiya can both get passed Susanoo. 



> Orochimaru-style Body Replacement, since Orochimaru can use it far more than Itachi has shots for it.



Doesn't that only work for himself? How do Tsunade and Jiraiya avoid it?



> Suggesting Itachi can defeat all three Sannin at once, and that Orochimaru is no threat to him is wanking. Itachi isn't on that level of power and he has never been.



I'm not gonna be a troll and pull up the definition of the word wanking since I know what you mean by it, even if I don't normally use it that way. Maybe I was misled by his brief skirmish with Nagato, but it's not like he beat him alone, so I guess I was overhyping him a bit.


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## trance (Jul 24, 2013)

If Jiraiya can enter SM, they can make it interesting as SM Jiraiya has a few tricks up his sleeves and is quite cunning but in an open area, they're very vulnerable. 

These conditions definitely favor Itachi.


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

Nagato blew Amaterasu off with Shira Tensei, Oro should be able to do the same with his wind jutsu?


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## trance (Jul 24, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Nagato blew Amaterasu off with Shira Tensei, Oro should be able to do the same with his wind jutsu?



Katon > Fūton. 

Shinra Tensei is manipulating gravitational forces to repel things.


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

Trance said:


> Katon > Fūton.
> 
> Shinra Tensei is manipulating gravitational forces to repel things.



Yea I thought that about the elemental thing but it dosent really make sense why it couldnt blow it off with a strong enough wind, we saw it can get blown off. Its not like the wind will catch fire. I would think a small wind would cause it to grow but Oro did some damage to a forest.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> Ok. So Tsunade and Jiraiya can both get passed Susanoo.


Yep. 




> Doesn't that only work for himself? How do Tsunade and Jiraiya avoid it?


Itachi's Amaterasu is a bit slower than Sasuke's when in life, due to the fact even Sasuke without a Shunshin avoided it. Jiraiya is on Sasuke's level of speed in base, and gets a huge increase in Sage Mode, and Tsunade can regenerate the damage from Amaterasu with Byakugo no Jutsu until Jiraiya seals the flames with his Fire Sealing Method.




> I'm not gonna be a troll and pull up the definition of the word wanking since I know what you mean by it, even if I don't normally use it that way. Maybe I was misled by his brief skirmish with Nagato, but it's not like he beat him alone, so I guess I was overhyping him a bit.


Thank you for admitting it. Don't worry about it.


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## Trojan (Jul 24, 2013)

Trance said:


> If Jiraiya can enter SM, they can make it interesting as SM Jiraiya has a few tricks up his sleeves and is quite cunning but in an open area, they're very vulnerable.
> 
> These conditions definitely favor Itachi.



Itachi admitted that he's inferior to base Jman, and Jman did not have knowledge on him. 
according to Itachi, Kisame and Jman SM is not needed for Jman to defeat itachi.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Itachi's Amaterasu is a bit slower than Sasuke's when in life, due to the fact even Sasuke without a Shunshin avoided it.



Do people generally think that Itachi was holding back against Sasuke? Because that's the impression I had when I saw him reanimated. Did he just get a sudden powerup when he came back to life, or is there a reason why he could use Susanoo more effectively while dead?



> Tsunade can regenerate the damage from Amaterasu with Byakugo no Jutsu until Jiraiya seals the flames with his Fire Sealing Method.



Forgot about that...


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## Baroxio (Jul 24, 2013)

Lack of Knowledge on Itachi's various OHKO's mean that this battle lasts until Itachi  decides to get serious, at which point, one of the Sannin die, and their ability to contend with him decreases tremendously.

On the other hand, Itachi can contend with anything the Sannin can throw at him with just his physical abilities, Sharingan, and if necessary, Susano. So the argument devolves to such a state where one competitor has the means to take out the opponent, while the opponent lacks similar means. Like all such (non-PIS/CIS) battles, it's simply a matter of time as to when the former wins.

None of this takes into account how basic genjustu comes into play. While an argument can be made to say that Itachi's reputation includes knowledge of his Sharingan genjutsu, reputation does not allow for knowledge on the subtle illusions created via Utakata. In any given moment they or their summons can turn against each other, not only eradicating any numbers advantage they may have on him, but more than likely leaving themselves open to one of Itachi's various OHKOs.

The Sannin might be able to take this in a full knowledge match where they have the preparation to think up a strategy beforehand, but without that crucial knowledge component, they fall to genjutsu GG more often than not.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> Do people generally think that Itachi was holding back against Sasuke? Because that's the impression I had when I saw him reanimated. Did he just get a sudden powerup when he came back to life, or is there a reason why he could use Susanoo more effectively while dead?


Itachi was only holding back when Susano'o came into play. There is no 'nice' way to mind rape someone, or nice way to burn them. 

As an Edo Tensei, Itachi got buffs he didn't have in life: regeneration and unlimited chakra and stamina. In life, Itachi had VERY low stamina and chakra reserves, it was his weakness and made him limit his Mangekyo Sharingan use, with three uses completely exhausting him when he was relatively healthy (or completely healthy) in Part I. Edo Tensei eliminated that.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Itachi was only holding back when Susano'o came into play. There is no 'nice' way to mind rape someone, or nice way to burn them.
> 
> As an Edo Tensei, Itachi got buffs he didn't have in life: regeneration and unlimited chakra and stamina. In life, Itachi had VERY low stamina and chakra reserves, it was his weakness and made him limit his Mangekyo Sharingan use, with three uses completely exhausting him when he was relatively healthy (or completely healthy) in Part I. Edo Tensei eliminated that.



Oh, so he could pretty much spam his sharingan as much as he wanted, which he can't do here.

And I'm guessing he can't just catch all three of them in a Genjutsu if they have intel. Can they avoid Tsukiyomi with reputation only?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> Oh, so he could pretty much spam his sharingan as much as he wanted, which he can't do here.
> 
> And I'm guessing he can't just catch all three of them in a Genjutsu if they have intel.


Nope. Itachi has only caught one person in a genjutsu. Sharingan genjutsu is useless normally against multiple people since due to the partner method. 

And Itachi can spam the NORMAL Sharingan as much as he wanted, but Mangekyo? Costs more than 30% of his total chakra for a single use.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Nope. Itachi has only caught one person in a genjutsu. Sharingan genjutsu is useless normally against multiple people since due to the partner method.
> 
> And Itachi can spam the NORMAL Sharingan as much as he wanted, but Mangekyo? Costs more than 30% of his total chakra for a single use.



So I guess Kakashi was kind of being a dumbass when he told Asuma and Kuranai to let him fight Itachi alone. Seems like it was kind of counterproductive now.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> So I guess Kakashi was kind of being a dumbass when he told Asuma and Kuranai to let him fight Itachi alone. Seems like it was kind of counterproductive now.


Not really. Itachi could have targeted any one of them, hence why Kakashi told them to close their eyes. Tsukuyomi only works on one target, not only that Itachi has never had feats of genjutsuing multiple people simultaneously.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not really. Itachi could have targeted any one of them, hence why Kakashi told them to close their eyes. Tsukuyomi only works on one target, not only that Itachi has never had feats of genjutsuing multiple people simultaneously.



But if he could only use it on one target, then they could have released each other from the Genjutsu, right? By taking him on alone, Kakashi ensured that there was no one to free him from the Tsukiyomi.


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## Kanki (Jul 24, 2013)

The problem with Amaterasu is it requires concentration and eye contact. I sometimes think people underestimate or fail to understand the concept of out-numbering your opponent. When Itachi stares at one character, the other 2 won't just stand there. They then have an opening.


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## Lawrence777 (Jul 24, 2013)

Why can't Itachi genjutsu more than one person if there all staring at his eyes? 

The sharingan genjutsus everyone staring at it. If asuma and kurenai had there eyes open they would of been caught in the aoe alongside Kakashi.

Its just less convenient than sound to trap multiple targets with. Everything seen in the manga to date points to sharingan affecting multiple targets. The alliance even thought Itachi was controlling a chunk of there forces at one point.

With these conditions (basically no knowledge) there just going to line up and get oneshotted by techniques they don't know about. 99% of the narutoverse would get oneshotted without knowledge/prep for MS techniques so its no fault of their own.

edit:
Didn't Itachi instantly set a crow on his shoulder on fire? I also believe he immediately used it while he and Kisame were running through the toad stomach. It's had inconsistent showings is the best one can argue. We don't know if it'll be instant or take 3 secs longer.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Jul 24, 2013)

This is down to genjutsu and all three of them cannot break out of it before Itachi breaks their neck. 

Orochimaru - We seen him fail against Itachi's genjutsu, so I'm not going to discuss about this right now.
Jiraiya - His method to break genjutsu does not work as we seen from Naruto's attempt.
Tsunade - Even with great chakra control, it is still not enough to break Itachi's genjutsu. As we seen, Shi who also has great chakra control got one shotted by Sasuke regular sharingan genjutsu. This shows even with great chakra control, genjutsu will still be a threat.

Partner method is the only thing that can save them, but even then Itachi can make clones to harass one of them long enough for him to take down one Sannin. The point is there is nothing stopping Itachi from catching all of them in genjutsu at the same time as we seen its possible for multiple shinobi to be caught in the same genjutsu at the same time.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> But if he could only use it on one target, then they could have released each other from the Genjutsu, right? By taking him on alone, Kakashi ensured that there was no one to free him from the Tsukiyomi.


Tsukuyomi can't be broken via the normal partner method: it can only be broken via the Sharingan, a greater Dojutsu (The Rinnegan) or the Perfect Jinchuriki method. Kakashi was counting on his Sharingan to help him break Tsukuyomi.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Tsukuyomi can't be broken via the normal partner method: it can only be broken via the Sharingan, a greater Dojutsu (The Rinnegan) or the Perfect Jinchuriki method. Kakashi was counting on his Sharingan to help him break Tsukuyomi.



Wait, so then how are the Sannin supposed to break it? If Itachi put Jiraiya under a paralysis jutsu, could Tsunade free him from it somehow?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> Wait, so then how are the Sannin supposed to break it? If Itachi put Jiraiya under a paralysis jutsu, could Tsunade free him from it somehow?


The Sannin have shown methods which eliminates Tsukuyomi from the table. Its very easy not to get eye contact. Shackling Stakes is broken via the partner method.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai, remember that Itachi can catch all three of them into genjutsu at the same time, if he does that then its not possible for to use Partner method to break out of it.

And ignore supersaiyman12, he doesn't know what he is talking about. Its not easy to fight Itachi without eye contact. Gai had to learn a technique to fight Kakashi. This technique is very hard to learn as noted by Asuma.


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## Lawrence777 (Jul 24, 2013)

Its improbable Itachi'd catch them all in genjutsu. Its not impossible though.

The main reason Itachi's winning here is specifically the knowledge stipulation. With no knowledge and no forewarning the Sannin are going to get utterly butchered by the mangekyou techniques.


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The Sannin have shown methods which eliminates Tsukuyomi from the table. Its very easy not to get eye contact. Shackling Stakes is broken via the partner method.



I feel like the Sannin win if they have intel on the Genjutsu. OP says reputation only, but it seems to be common knowledge in the Naruto world that Uchiha can use ocular Genjutsu. Whether they know the method needed to avoid it is a pretty important factor for the outcome if you ask me.



Kakashi Hatake said:


> Transcendent Samurai, remember that Itachi can catch all three of them into genjutsu at the same time, if he does that then its not possible for to use Partner method to break out of it.



I can see them carelessly looking into his eyes and getting caught in it all at once if they don't know to avoid it. If they do, it's kind of unpredictable.



> And ignore supersaiyman12, he doesn't know what he is talking about. Its not easy to fight Itachi without eye contact. Gai had to learn a technique to fight Kakashi. This technique is very hard to learn as noted by Asuma.



I think for now I'll say that Sannin win with intel, and that Itachi wins without it. Still, I've never been a fan of using the "Genjutsu wins" argument. I always feel like the characters with stronger mentality should be able to resist it, not just those with stronger ocular powers. But that's probably just because I read too much One Piece, and the manga proves me wrong since Kakashi pretty much got mind fucked.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 24, 2013)

Transcendent Samurai said:


> I feel like the Sannin win if they have intel on the Genjutsu. OP says reputation only, but it seems to be common knowledge in the Naruto world that Uchiha can use ocular Genjutsu. Whether they know the method needed to avoid it is a pretty important factor for the outcome if you ask me.


Considering even CHIYO knew the method on how to battle a Uchiha who uses genjutsu, I don't think its out there that they can avoid Tsukuyomi and break each other out.




> I can see them carelessly looking into his eyes and getting caught in it all at once if they don't know to avoid it. If they do, it's kind of unpredictable.


...Itachi can only genjutsu people one person at a time.




> I think for now I'll say that Sannin win with intel, and that Itachi wins without it. Still, I've never been a fan of using the "Genjutsu wins" argument. I always feel like the characters with stronger mentality should be able to resist it, not just those with stronger ocular powers. But that's probably just because I read too much One Piece, and the manga proves me wrong since Kakashi pretty much got mind fucked.


Don't take what Kakashi Hatake (the member) says seriously. Itachi is his favorite character and he wanks it so much that he can't be taken seriously.

Itachi isn't strong enough to defeat all three Sannin at once. He has NEVER been put on that level, only his mega fans (like Kakashi Hatake) think he is.


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> This is down to genjutsu and all three of them cannot break out of it before Itachi breaks their neck.
> 
> Orochimaru - We seen him fail against Itachi's genjutsu, so I'm not going to discuss about this right now.


Oro was about to break out of it and was shocked that it even worked. Any of the people here can stop Itachi from attacking Oro in that small interval of him breaking out.



Kakashi Hatake said:


> And ignore supersaiyman12, he doesn't know what he is talking about. Its not easy to fight Itachi without eye contact. Gai had to learn a technique to fight Kakashi. This technique is very hard to learn as noted by Asuma.



Jiraiya thought he could do it.


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## Lawrence777 (Jul 24, 2013)

6+~ other people besides Kakashi Hatake also said Itachi'd win if the Sannin have no knowledge.

It doesn't matter if they're the legendary sannin.
They have no knowledge so they may as well be konohamaru vs the MS.
They're going to be incapacitated before they can perform 100% of their potential.
Konohamaru's max potential is a "10" and the sannin's individually are each 1000+. 
Doesn't matter if the MS defeats them all while there warming up and used only 10/1000.

They have no knowledge -> 
Tsukiyomi takes out Tsunade ->
They adapt and learn to avoid eye contact->
Amaterasu takes out another one->


or some variant is basically how the fight will end up with this knowledge stipulation.


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

They all know not to look at his eyes I dont see genjutsu as a problem, the only problem is Amaterasu and if he hits Oro with it first then it probably wont work again. If summons come out its really over. Its all a matter of what if's and Itachi needs everything to go perfect for him to win; I dont see it happening.


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## Lawrence777 (Jul 24, 2013)

They know the partner method can break them out of genjutsu. 
They don't know Itachi's tsukiyomi overrides the partner method[1].
They basically begin with enough knowledge to incorrectly conclude they can handle his genjutsu.

In addition, Itachi can just use a crow instead even if they did avoid eye contact[2].


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

But im saying no one is going to look in his eyes anyway to say he can use Tsukuyomi on them; Jiraiya thought he could take Itachi and Kisame without a partner and accurately called the genjutsu he broke a Sharingan genjutsu. I also dont know if the crow casting the genjutsu or if the crow is apart of the genjutsu.


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## Lawrence777 (Jul 24, 2013)

Recall that Itachi's crow casted Koto Amatsukami[1] basically confirming his crows can indeed cast genjutsu.

Orochimaru[2] and Jiraiya[3] have both already looked at Itachi with only reputation knowledge.

Concerning hype and statements, Kisame also asked Itachi why he needed to retreat from Jiraiya after the fact[4].


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

Itachi set that eyeball to use Koto the same way he set Sasuke's eye to use Amaterasu, its really no conclusive evidence that the crow was the one that used the genjutsu. Im not saying its a fact that it cant I just dont believe it.

And what Jiraiya said was not a hype statement because he did not know of MS. My point is saying that he thought he could beat Itachi without MS; considering he claimed he could he must know of Sharingan and an applicable way to fight against it whether it be not looking at the eyes or other. Oro thought it would not work on him for whatever reason, I personally dont think he would look at Itachi's eyes without having a good reason.

Oh and your link dosent exactly prove Jiraiya was looking at his eyes, when Naruto faced Itachi it looked like he was looking at his eyes but Itachi said he wasnt.


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## Veracity (Jul 24, 2013)

Wtf man. If Itachi was so damn legendary then why didn't he mop the floor with Jirayia and take Naruto? On top of this he had Kisame as backup. If he can solo all 3 Sannin then Jirayia should have been Genin level compared to him. Even much less with the aid of Kisame.

The Itachi wank is terrible. All of the Sannin at once? Lol that's cute.


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## Ashi (Jul 24, 2013)

Turrin said:


> The Sannin rape. Between Orochimaru, Tsunade and J-man they essentially have full knowledge on Itachi's abilities.
> 
> Itachi's Katon's get owned by Toad's Suitons
> Itachi's good in CQC, but facing Tsunade, J-man, and Orochimaru there he is totally outclassed
> ...



This ends the thread :sanji


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## Etherborn (Jul 24, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Wtf man. If Itachi was so damn legendary then why didn't he mop the floor with Jirayia and take Naruto? On top of this he had Kisame as backup. If he can solo all 3 Sannin then Jirayia should have been Genin level compared to him. Even much less with the aid of Kisame.
> 
> The Itachi wank is terrible. All of the Sannin at once? Lol that's cute.



I'm pretty sure Itachi wasn't really attempting to capture Naruto. His goal wasn't to help Akatsuki. Although I'm still undecided as to who wins this.


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> This ends the thread :sanji



The only problem with that is that while Shima can probably sense it coming she wouldnt know what exactly would be coming at them. I dont think Oro would throw up Rashomon against something he dosent know how to properly defend against. Amaterasu seems to be the only problem here.


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## Baroxio (Jul 24, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Wtf man. If Itachi was so damn legendary then why didn't he mop the floor with Jirayia and take Naruto? On top of this he had Kisame as backup. If he can solo all 3 Sannin then Jirayia should have been Genin level compared to him. Even much less with the aid of Kisame.
> 
> The Itachi wank is terrible. All of the Sannin at once? Lol that's cute.


If Itachi wanted to take Naruto he would have done so here:



That's that; Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, GG.

The simple fact that Naruto wasn't instantly genjutsu GG'd here proves that Itachi wasn't there to capture Naruto at all.

Go on. Try to explain why Itachi didn't genjutsu Naruto here and leave long before either Sasuke or Jiraiya got there. Go on; I'll wait.


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## Ashi (Jul 24, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> The only problem with that is that while Shima can probably sense it coming she wouldnt know what exactly would be coming at them. I dont think Oro would throw up Rashomon against something he dosent know how to properly defend against. Amaterasu seems to be the only problem here.



Sasuke dodged it pretty easy plus the sage mode gives a speed boost too


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## Ennoia (Jul 24, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Sasuke dodged it pretty easy plus the sage mode gives a speed boost too



But Sasuke knew what was coming at him and began to run prior to the release of Amaterasu, he was only outrunning Itachi's eyesight; Sannin wont know to do that. If they can force him to use Amaterasu to defend himself with it before he can use it for offense then they may be able to counter but its tough to call to say they can defend with their first time seeing it.


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## Veracity (Jul 24, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> If Itachi wanted to take Naruto he would have done so here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I wondered about that. 

Besides that point, the fact that Itachi was viewed as near Jirayias equal, strongly implied that Itachi would get raped by all 3 Sannin. 

Even I agree about the notion of Itachi>Jirayia. But Itachi himself said he would lose to Jirayia. Honestly we all know that Itachi was underating his abilities, but he heavily implied that Jiaryia would give him many problems alone. Now add in 2 other Sannins. Mind you, they all have roughly the same power.


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## Ashi (Jul 25, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> But Sasuke knew what was coming at him and began to run prior to the release of Amaterasu, he was only outrunning Itachi's eyesight; Sannin wont know to do that. If they can force him to use Amaterasu to defend himself with it before he can use it for offense then they may be able to counter but its tough to call to say they can defend with their first time seeing it.



...what are you talking about? When did sasuke ever see the Amaterasu before? Infant jiraiya saw it being used on his toad and what do you outrunning his eyesight   the black flames are literally CHASING him if jiraiya's faster than that then he can dodge em


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## Rain (Jul 25, 2013)

Itachi takes this one.

Once he starts unleashin his Mangekyo OHKO Armada, there really isn't much the Sannin can do.

With rep-only knowledge, at least 1 of them will look him directly in the eyes, and get OHKO-ed by Tsukuyomi. Tsunade can't really heal them in the middle of a fight, especially not in this location.

Jiraiya can't prep SM  here, Amaterasu or Yasaka no Magatama will take him down.

And without knowledge Orochimaru gets genjutsu-stomped just like in the canon.

also lol ssm12


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## Ennoia (Jul 25, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> ...what are you talking about? When did sasuke ever see the Amaterasu before? Infant jiraiya saw it being used on his toad and what do you outrunning his eyesight the black flames are literally CHASING him if jiraiya's faster than that then he can dodge em



He first saw Itachi use it on his Katon here and when he saw Itachi about to use it again he started running before it was released here. Jiraiya did not know what the black flames were or how the black flames got there, he does not know it comes out of the eyes. Jiraiya is not going to know to run from something that he dosent know about.


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## KnightGhost (Jul 25, 2013)

Jiraya is one shoted with Ama

Oro is sealed with TS.

Tsunade is brutally raped and the combination of her senju bloodine with Itachi's results in a bastard Rikudō child.


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## Wolfstein (Jul 26, 2013)

Itachi has his work cut out for him against Jiraiya_ alone_.


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## KnightGhost (Jul 26, 2013)

Wolfstein said:


> Itachi has his work cut out for him against Jiraiya_ alone_.



The reason why you didn't go into detail is because jiraya is one shoted by ama.

i dare you to come up with aargument saying otherwise like jiraya dodges or some thing.

Saying this means nothing see RS has his work cut out for him against HINATA alone GTFO.


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## Wolfstein (Jul 26, 2013)

KnightGhost said:


> The reason why you didn't go into detail is because jiraya is one shoted by ama.
> 
> i dare you to come up with aargument saying otherwise like jiraya dodges or some thing.
> 
> Saying this means nothing see RS has his work cut out for him against HINATA alone GTFO.



The reason I didn't go into detail is because that has nothing to do with this thread. If you think either Jiraiya is out of Itachi's league, or that Itachi is out of Jiraiya's, you are completely deluded. 

The opening post specifies that Itachi is in character. There is almost a one hundred percent chance, that he won't open up with Amaterasu.


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## Stermor (Jul 26, 2013)

reputation means the sannin would know or atleast expect ms jutsu's.. it is stupid to think the sannin (all of them extremly knowlegdable) don't know what it means fighting an extremly strong uchiha..  chiyo knew instantly saying the sannin don't is idiocy at best.. 

so no instant sniping with ms jutsu's.. without suprise takeout's itachi doesn't stand a chance against all 3 of them..


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## Jak N Blak (Jul 26, 2013)

Different day...same old arguments....


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## Okodi (Jul 26, 2013)

Since it is rep only, I am going to assume that all possible knowledge that Orochimaru had from Itachi, being part of the Akatsuki and Root ANBU, along with his research findings, is out the windows.

Countering Itachi's genjutsus wouldn't pose a problem seeing how the Sannin have been a team for a very long time and would quickly notice when something was off and if Tsunade is up and running She could even counter Tsukiyomi. Even if Itachi chooses to use it on her first, he is bound to feel the after effects shortly after, reducing his chance of surviving the two other Sannin.

Amaterasu will only be the most effective on Jiraiya seeing how Orochimaru can body shed and Tsunade, with Byakugo, would cut of and regenerate her limbs if needed not to forget that seeing the shape of Itachi's eyes change and the experience that the Sannin have may actually help them as well. With Orochimaru having helped Danzo with his Sharingan arms and having knowledge about Shishui's eyes, he is going to be able to understand that strained Uchiha eyes means LOS.

Susanoo is a great for defense along with its mythical weapons. It is unknown how well someone like Jiraiya and a bookworm like Tsunade might know about the artifacts displayed. With the two being around, along with the fact that Shima and Fukasaku might have been summoned for Sennin Mode, they might actually be able to identify the items faster.

A healthy Itachi may bring one Sannin down alone, but if all the Sannin are assembled to fight him then the power of their sum will be much greater than the individual pieces as they will complement each others weaknesses.


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## LordSnow (Jul 26, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Itachi takes this mid difficulty.
> 
> Knowledge = Reputation = Sannin don't know shit about MS powers or Itachi's genjutsu prowess.
> 
> There are a handful of characters who has a shot @ defeating Itachi without knowledge, and Sannin, even when together, aren't a part of those people.



*Sees sig and avatar*
*Gives up*


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## Trojan (Jul 26, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Wtf man. If Itachi was so damn legendary then why didn't he mop the floor with Jirayia and take Naruto? On top of this he had Kisame as backup. If he can solo all 3 Sannin then Jirayia should have been Genin level compared to him. Even much less with the aid of Kisame.
> 
> The Itachi wank is terrible. All of the Sannin at once? Lol that's cute.



there is No cure for stupidity. That's why. Otherwise, it's canon that Jman alone and even without
knowledge is stronger than itachi even with kisame's help.


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## Elite Uchiha (Jul 26, 2013)

The King shits on Orochimaru and Tsunade and then proceeds to go "spy" with Jiraiya


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