# For Obese People, Prejudice in Plain Sight



## Shiron (Mar 20, 2010)

> As a woman whose height and weight put me in the obese category on the body-mass-index chart, I cringed when Michelle Obama recently spoke of putting her daughters on a diet. While I'm sure the first lady's intentions are good, I'm also sure that her comments about childhood obesity will add yet another layer to the stigma of being overweight in America.
> 
> Last August, Dr. Delos M. Cosgrove, a cardiac surgeon and chief executive of the prestigious Cleveland Clinic, told a columnist for The New York Times that if he could get away with it legally, he would refuse to hire anyone who is obese. He probably could get away with it, actually, because no federal legislation protects the civil rights of fat workers, and only one state, Michigan, bans discrimination on the basis of weight.
> 
> ...


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## Mintaka (Mar 20, 2010)

Fat rights!?

W.....what the hell is this shite?  Okay I can understand if you have a glandular condition or if you have some predisposition to being larger.  However I highly doubt that that is the case for a large number of people whoa re simply to lazy or to gluttonous to become thinner.


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## Pilaf (Mar 20, 2010)

I dunno about you guys but I'm not about to take health advice from a Dr. Bacon.


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## Mintaka (Mar 20, 2010)

How utterly ironic.


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## Shiron (Mar 20, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> Fat rights!?
> 
> W.....what the hell is this shite?  Okay I can understand if you have a glandular condition or if you have some predisposition to being larger.  However I highly doubt that that is the case for a large number of people whoa re simply to lazy or to gluttonous to become thinner.


Perhaps. However, it still should not be a criteria that's usable for turning someone down a job. Someone may be overweight due to being lazy, but they also may not be, and that's something that you can't gather just from looking at person--you have to look at their resume and achievements and such as well. If they end up lazing around and not doing their job, then fire them. But to judge someone by their looks and to assume that their overweight because their lazy right off the bat isn't something that should be allowed (and is something that makes me proud to live in Michigan, as it's apparently the only state that's had the sense to ban that shit so far--it really surprised me to read that bit as I was reading this), especially since it's not going to be doing that person any favors (continually being turned down for the higher-income jobs for such reasons would just lead them to a job more towards minimum wage, meaning they won't have the income necessary to eat stuff other than more McDonald's, inability to afford going a gym/getting gym equipment, etc).


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## The Space Cowboy (Mar 20, 2010)

Obese is not a protected class.  It is not integral to your being.  Quite frankly obesity should be treated like smoking--with the accompanying sanctions & stigmatization

And for some jobs, not being obese should be considered integral to the job, much like not being a drug addict is crucial in some positions.  Don't like being turned down as an insurance risk?  Get your shit together

My father is a physician.  He is fat because he is stressed and because of what he eats + how much he eats.  I'm kinda miffed at him about it because he's going to end up dying of a massive heart attack before he sees any grandchildren. 

Obesity is going to be the cause of so much heartache & sadness as the current obese generations get older.  That is why it needs to be addressed, and why obese people pretty much deserve all the prejudice they encounter.


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## Petenshi (Mar 20, 2010)

The Space Cowboy said:


> Obese is not a protected class.  It is not integral to your being.  Quite frankly obesity should be treated like smoking--with the accompanying sanctions & stigmatization
> 
> And for some jobs, not being obese should be considered integral to the job, much like not being a drug addict is crucial in some positions.  Don't like being turned down as an insurance risk?  Get your shit together
> 
> ...



Not all obese people can help it. Body makeup controls at least 30% of it, metabolism and also diseases can also make it hard or impossible to be skinny. Secondly, people need to realize the difference between healthy weight and obese. Often they do not.


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## armorknight (Mar 20, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Not all obese people can help it. Body makeup controls at least 30% of it, metabolism and also diseases can also make it hard or impossible to be skinny. Secondly, people need to realize the difference between healthy weight and obese. Often they do not.



A select few can't truly help it, but most overweight and obese people end up that way because of bad lifestyle choices.

Obesity due to lifestyle choices is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with quickly, much like smoking and alcoholism.


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## Petenshi (Mar 20, 2010)

armorknight said:


> A select few can't truly help it, but most overweight and obese people end up that way because of bad lifestyle choices.



Most exacerbate their condition due to lifestyle choices, more often than not their metabolism is lower than others and thus they eat the same amount and get fat. Getting fat, then makes it worse as they are too deep to have motivation to take it in the opposite direction.


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## The Space Cowboy (Mar 20, 2010)

> Not all obese people can help it. Body makeup controls at least 30% of it, metabolism and also diseases can also make it hard or impossible to be skinny. Secondly, people need to realize the difference between healthy weight and obese. Often they do not.



The difficulty of climbing mountains & slaying dragons does not make those acts any less desirable or any less noble.  Nor does it make you any more courageous for staying at home and hiding beneath the rubble of your ruined home.

All obese people can "help" it.  They chose to eat the food in the first place.  That is why we do not, currently treat them like drug addicts.  If you postulate that they cannot help it, you validate discriminating against them on the grounds that they are a financial risk to the company--if that company provides health insurance as a benefit.

*
If your lifestyle does not allow for exercise or you do not wish to actively exercise, the sensible choice is to reduce your caloric intake.*

(As a side note, I have noticed there is a difference between soda-calories, and food calories--at least for me.  Food calories "stick" better)


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## armorknight (Mar 20, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Most exacerbate their condition due to lifestyle choices, more often than not their metabolism is lower than others and thus they eat the same amount and get fat. Getting fat, then makes it worse as they are too deep to have motivation to take it in the opposite direction.



Low metabolism is not going to result in obesity if one eats properly and/or exercises. It causes a little weight gain but not obesity. Lifestyle choices are usually the major factor in obesity. Just look at the current generation of obese children and adolescents. Most of them are lazy fucks who watch too much TV, eat a lot of junk food, and/or don't exercise at all. 

There are medical conditions in which the afflicted person can truly do nothing about it, but those are few and far between.

The good news is that most obese people can actually become fit if they get off their lazy asses and put effort into it.


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## Damaris (Mar 20, 2010)

My dad is massively overweight and I remember getting picked on in elementary school whenever I said my dad was a hero because he was a "fattie". It made me so angry, and I still think it's wrong that people can be discriminated against/mocked because of weight, but I never got the "fat pride" movement either. Being obese isn't a good thing. My dad's been losing weight over the past year because he finally started exercising. But he's still at risk and his body is all messed up. And that's without going into the pressure it puts on me and my sister to stay skinny. Everytime I gain a couple pounds I wonder if I'm going to end up like him, and the cycle starts all over.


Now that I think about it, this doesn't really relate to the article, but oh well.


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## Petenshi (Mar 20, 2010)

armorknight said:


> Low metabolism is not going to result in obesity if one eats properly and/or exercises. It causes a little weight gain but not obesity. Lifestyle choices are usually the major factor in obesity. *Just look at the current generation of obese children and adolescents. Most of them are lazy fucks who watch too much TV, eat a lot of junk food, and/or don't exercise at all. *
> 
> There are medical conditions in which the afflicted person can truly do nothing about it, but those are few and far between.
> 
> The good news is that most obese people can actually become fit if they get off their lazy asses and put effort into it.



Exactly, the culture of america is teaching kids to be obese.


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## The Space Cowboy (Mar 20, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Exactly, the culture of america is teaching kids to be obese.



Forget the culture.  What about the farm subsidies?


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## LouDAgreat (Mar 20, 2010)

Tough titties said the kitty.


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## krickitat (Mar 20, 2010)

Im considered obese, yet i bet I exercise more then the majority of you. I go out and hike several miles every weekend and take two walks a day walking my dog. Guess what I also love working out at the gym, I love the high it gives me and can stay on a eliptical machine for hours. In fact I love nothing more then to compete with some skinny thing next to me getting my rate and time higher. 

My failing? Poor eating habits, I eat maybe once or twice a day and because I skip breakfast by the time I eat at 9PM im starving. 
Yes I love salads I eat a ton of fruit and am low on meats and grains. But that doesnt help when you eat a huge bowl of salad because I starved myself the rest of the day. 

But guess what, I work a job where im self employed and I dont get a lunch break. the things you might term break are spent cleaning or calling back clients or washing dishes or doing laundry. 

I work just as hard as the next person and if someone asked me if I wanted to take the elevator or the stairs im going to pick the stairs. 

And BTW there are quite a few skinny people who are terribly unhealthy. I have watched skinny people eat and I massage skinny people every day. Sorry but they arent any healthier or better off then fat people. Their muscles arent in better shape and alot of them are working themselves into the grave just like all the rest of us.


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## siyrean (Mar 20, 2010)

The thing that ticks me off about that artical is that they're making it out as if it's only a "fat " thing. The prejudace isn't due to weight, it's due to how society treats those it deems unattractive, to those who are. When I was still in school I did a whole study on how attractive people always got an u fair advantage over those who were fat or sickly or had bad skin or awkward facial features or too short/tall. Are they going to start an ugly people support group now too?


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## Sen (Mar 20, 2010)

Pretty sad that they would discriminate about that on factors such as jobs, I do think that that should be illegal, but sadly as someone else pointed out it has been shown that attractiveness in general will affect those things. 

I do think that there should be programs that help prevent unhealthy obesity and such, especially for children though.  One thing that a lot of people seem to not realize is that a lot of people that might be considered overweight today were considered quite healthy years ago, so in part it's due to the current ideals of society.  I think that as long as someone is actually healthy, then their weight shouldn't play an impact on if they get a job or not.  Not sure if that is possible though since even today, studies have shown that there is still racism and sexism when it comes to things like that, so I don't really expect things to happen about this too much.


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## Sparrow (Mar 20, 2010)

Not sure if it's the popular view or not, but obese people shouldn't be handled with kid gloves. It is an unhealthy lifestyle, and while I support anyone's right to pursue it, it doesn't mean I encourage it or that anyone should support the lifestyle itself. Supporting the fat lifestyle is as good as condoning and teaching our kids that it's okay, when really they should be trying to be healthy. 

I'm so tired of hearing about "fat rights" and fat people being upset about the popular projection of what someone's image should be. Shut up fatties, you're just upset that you're not thin. Go on a diet and get some exercise or stop complaining.

Also, while on the subject of fat people, I'm beyond tired of hearing people blame everything other than themselves for their weight. It's utter bullshit. Fuck fat people, they ruin everything and just annoy me.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 20, 2010)

Whats next?? 

Drugg-addict pride?? 

Anorhexic pride?? (how many horribly underweigh make it to a top position outside fashion?) 


They have an unhealthy lifestyle. This is not something you should accept. 

Obese people are sick from work far often. Have a far higher risk of a wide range of health issues. 

OFCOURSE this is not someone you want on a high position.

1. They are a walking heart attack timebomb. Costing you...and meaning you cant rely as much on them.  
2. If they cannot even control their eating habits..how can they control such a position. 


That there are few obese persons on high positions strikes me as equally logical as that there are so few meth addicts in high positions.


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## Petenshi (Mar 20, 2010)

Zabuzalives said:


> Whats next??
> 
> Drugg-addict pride??
> 
> ...



Meth addiction affects how you work, obesity for 99% of jobs does not.


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## Kira U. Masaki (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm just going to say hypocrisy and irony at its finest from the good people on this board (tokoyami in particular given some of its comments that ive seen on other boards).


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## M?gas Strategos (Mar 20, 2010)

Obese people may contribute less to global warming as due to their ill health, they will die at a younger age than a normal person. So whilst during their lifetime, more fuel and food is consumed, they're not consuming anything when they're dead.


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## krickitat (Mar 20, 2010)

......as someone considered obese there is a difference between healthy obese and unhealthy obese. Im someone who is very active and does make attempts to control my weight. i dont eat any more calories a day then any of you I just it them at all the wrong times. I admit freely thats my fault, I chose this job knowing that I would have this schedule and chose to keep this job. 


but I HAVE worked with people who are fat and make no effort what so ever. And I have to say that as someone who does try very hard and is very active it kinda pisses me off. Here I have to live with the stigma that THIS person perpetuates. 

think of it like this, for every minority out there, and yes for the moment we are going to call fat people a minority, there is that portion of the minority that gives all the rest of them a bad reputation. 

Are all black men thugs and criminals and carry guns? 
Do all latina women wear big hoop earrings and talk like they just walked out of the bronx?
Are all native americans drunks who own casinos? 

You know thats not true, yet all I hear is Damned generalizations from almost every one of you. Fat people are lazy, fat people are a risk, fast people will die sooner.

When I hear you say that you know what I hear? ^ (use bro), chink, greaser, bitch, cracker, homo....fatass. Your words are just as messed up and biased as the people who use words like that to describe people.


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## vivEnergy (Mar 20, 2010)

krickitat said:


> ......as someone considered obese there is a difference between healthy obese and unhealthy obese. Im someone who is very active and does make attempts to control my weight. i dont eat any more calories a day then any of you I just it them at all the wrong times. I admit freely thats my fault, I chose this job knowing that I would have this schedule and chose to keep this job.
> 
> 
> but I HAVE worked with people who are fat and make no effort what so ever. And I have to say that as someone who does try very hard and is very active it kinda pisses me off. Here I have to live with the stigma that THIS person perpetuates.
> ...



So could you tell us what you are eating everyday ? (quantity wise too)


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 20, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Meth addiction affects how you work, obesity for 99% of jobs does not.



nonsense. I can name a lot of jobs with a physical requirement affected by obesity. 99% is a huge overstatement. 


Then we have the risks associated with poor health..and the costs thereof for the company. (disability leave etc.) 





The study concluded that obese women (body mass index [BMI] of 30 or higher) were 61 percent more likely to miss work time, compared to women of healthy weight. For morbidly obese women (BMI 40 or higher), the figure rose to * 118  * percent. For women, obesity was linked to absenteeism across * all occupational categories.*




So its really not that different from a recreational drug user...who would also be at higher health risk, lower work performance in several areas...and have a higher chance to be absent of work.


No one bats an eyelash if the druggy is having negative repercussions from his self-destructive life-style. Then why is this different from obesity? 

Or to stay in the line of weight. How many anorhexic patients have high profile jobs? 




im sorry but im not gonna turn a blind eye because 
1. Self destructive lifestyle
2. condition puts strain/negative effect on society/work, so it isnt just concerning the obese person anymore.


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## impersonal (Mar 20, 2010)

In other news, smelly people are discriminated against and nobody gives a shit. It's the exact same issue.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 20, 2010)

Except in a few rare cases, nobody is born a fatty, so screw you, fatties.


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## DragonHeart52 (Mar 20, 2010)

What the writer failed to include is that Cosgrove of the Cleveland Clinic bans all junk food from vending machines and also will not hire smokers. You can check out the entire article in NewsWeek Magazine from December 7, 2009 : "The Hospital that Could Cure Health Care".

It's a simple matter of his view: If you're going to be a health care worker in this place, you'll walk the talk.

Obesity is one of the biggest challenges facing the health care system in the US and is adding to cost by being the lead-in to chronic diseases.

I don't see a problem with teaching your kids to make healthy choices in food, activity, or any part of their lives.  What they do with it as they grow older is up to them, but at least avoid the start of illnesses due to overweight when they are young. I would protect my child from ingesting rat poison or toilet bowl cleaner as a toddler so why wouldn't I keep them away from poor health choices until they are old enough to understand?

Coronary artery disease, hypertension - aren't just for grown-ups anymore. Another report on the issue for your viewing pleasure which addresses how serious the issue is in US: 


Sadly, it costs more in the US to eat healthy foods than it does to eat junk.  Add in school's cutting back on physical ed and it's a combo for disaster.

[edit: I find the 'expert' consulted by CBS News darkly amusing in that an individual who probably can afford the best foods and paying a membership or a home gym sets the example that he does. Doesn't he realize that even though he's right, he still reduces his own credibility? "Physician, heal thyself."]


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## Marmite (Mar 20, 2010)

And the young prove once again, that age-old wisdom:

_History repeats itself._​
As the arguments were?and indeed continue to this day to be?trotted out against the blacks, the gays, the 'women'...so too were they used to justify their marginalization and bigotry against the fat.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> And the young prove once again, that age-old wisdom:
> 
> _History repeats itself._​
> As the arguments were—and indeed continue to this day to be—trotted out against the blacks, the gays, the 'women'...so too were they used to justify their marginalization and bigotry against the fat.



Let's see:

Black: A skin color you're born with. Cannot be changed (MJ doesn't count).
Gay: A sexual orientation you're born with. Cannot be changed.
Female: A sex you're born with. Cannot be changed (biologically).
Fat: Overweight that is gained in your life. Can be change with some effort or surgically.

Sorry, but I can't feel much sympathy for fatties whining about being oppressed.


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## ez (Mar 20, 2010)

lose some weight fatty.


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## Marmite (Mar 20, 2010)

Sauf, my dear fellow...you have me confused. I can only imagine you were putting forth some kind of refutation, but I see only _non-sequitur_. These things are inborn, yes, but of what concern is that to us?


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## Dionysus (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> And the young prove once again, that age-old wisdom:
> 
> _History repeats itself._​
> As the arguments were—and indeed continue to this day to be—trotted out against the blacks, the gays, the 'women'...so too were they used to justify their marginalization and bigotry against the fat.



I'm with Marmite.   I'm a rude dickhead and I'm discriminated upon all the time.  It's not all my fault and I shouldn't have to put up with it.  I was raised to be a dick and even though it's largely my choice to live like one, having these disagreeable social habits continue to exist should be no concern to others.

As an exceedingly invididualistic society we should start to undo the social expectations and standards we have accumulated over the millennia.

PS: everyone go fuck themselves.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 20, 2010)

There's a few people out there who truly can't help it.

But most fat people are just fucking fat.

I'm skinnier than most people, you know what that makes me?

Too lazy to work out more often.

AAAAH I'M WITHERING AWAY BECAUSE I'M LAZY, SYMPATHIZE WITH ME!!!


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## aquis45 (Mar 20, 2010)

The Space Cowboy said:


> The difficulty of climbing mountains & slaying dragons does not make those acts any less desirable or any less noble.  Nor does it make you any more courageous for staying at home and hiding beneath the rubble of your ruined home.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GpEyVZyAY8[/YOUTUBE]

I have a tendency to rate physical fitness over BMI, because BMI is bullshit. Everybody is not the exact same shape, you could just be heavy with muscle and the damn thing would call you obese.  And of course doctors don't want obese patients, they have so many other medical issues and possible complications that appear solely because of their weight.


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## Szayaikiael (Mar 20, 2010)

Fat people treat their weight like it's some sort of disability. Disabled people didn't choose it - fat people did. Don't give me that "glandular" crap. They wouldn't the fork down, and that is it. There's no two ways about it. They're fat, and it's their fault. Where do they get off complaining?

Argh... this is has annoyed me. I'm gonna go have a cupasoup.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 20, 2010)

> I'm a rude dickhead and I'm discriminated upon all the time. It's not all my fault and I shouldn't have to put up with it.


... What?

Aquis45, I agree that BMI is bullshit.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> Sauf, my dear fellow...you have me confused. I can only imagine you were putting forth some kind of refutation, but I see only _non-sequitur_. These things are inborn, yes, but of what concern is that to us?



So you honestly believe that discriminating against someone based on things they were born with and cannot be changed is the same thing as discriminating against someone based on things they chose and could change any time they want to?

So basically we should not treat people differently regardless of what choices they made in life?


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## impersonal (Mar 20, 2010)

Then there's also the fact that someone can be judged and disliked over things he's born with. It's less politically correct to talk about it, but there's evidence that some people are unintelligent, annoying, ugly or even mean genetically, and obviously all of this is going to count in the person's career. Really, if morbidly obese people weren't so big numerous you can't ignore them when they whine, this would never be an issue.


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## Cjones (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm big, but I don't complained about it. When I want to lose weight, then I"ll lose weight, but I want treat it as a disability like some do. Though either way it's wrong to deny someone a job because they're over weight. 

Also lol Dr. Bacon


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## Marmite (Mar 20, 2010)

Oh Sauf, let's drop this ridiculousness and be honest, shall we? You won't admit it here, but we both know (even if only 'on some level' in your case) that all this is retroactive rationalization simply because you want to hate 'obese' people. If it is your ambition to do so, then I shall of course not consider it my place to tell you otherwise. All I can do is encourage you to be honest to *yourself*, because one of the things that _I_ hate is a lack of 'self-integrity'. You needn't argue: If I'm 'right', all that's left is for you to acknowledge yourself. If not, it only proves that I'm an insignificant idiot.

But I do suspect that you would do well to take a leaf from impersonal's book (of honesty) here. 'Fat arguments' in the mainstream really just serve as a talking point, so you can imagine how much of a joke most arguments over it are...


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## Ech?ux (Mar 20, 2010)

> Though either way it's wrong to deny someone a job because they're over weight.


I disagree. If that actual makes the job more difficult or if you can determine that them being overweight has to do with their drive/initiative as far as doing certain things, it's fair.

Also Marmite. I don't hate Obese people. But most of them are just lazy and want to be sympathized with. They don't need "fat rights", that's just a stupid fucking idea.


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## jugni (Mar 20, 2010)

I do think it is an issue if someone is not hired because of their appearance such as being “fat.” I think there are other categories like ageism, sexism, racism, and although many do not talk about this category, it can become an issue. I do think that everyone should have a healthy diet. “Diet” has some negative connotations, but I think if healthy and balanced meals are provided for students and people in general, it is not a bad thing. I personally don’t have balanced meals at times, and I get lazy to exercise, but I know those aspects are important to have in one’s life whether you are “thin” or “fat.” Eating unhealthy food is not good in general.  Just because someone is thin, it does not necessarily mean they are active or honest individuals for a job. And just because someone is fat, it does not always mean that they are lazy, don’t exercise, or are not proper for a job.  It is easy to have those images in our mind, but they are not always correct.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 20, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Most exacerbate their condition due to lifestyle choices, more often than not their metabolism is lower than others and thus they eat the same amount and get fat. Getting fat, then makes it worse as they are too deep to have motivation to take it in the opposite direction.


Um if your metabolism is lower, you'll eat less because you'll be hungry less. Nine times out of ten obesity is laziness and over eating. 

As a lazy person who is actually not obese, I can say you kind of have to work to get there.


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## Hwon (Mar 20, 2010)

The problem here is that they are mixing and blurring the lines between criticism and discrimination.  If a person's weight is not subject to the qualifications for a job then it is discrimination to not hire them based on their weight or looks.  In this case I would agree there needs to be protections.  

However, if a person on their own time wants to treat someone else badly or be insensitive about weight, race, sex, age, etc... that's their right.  The reason people worry about being politically correct is that they fear social rejection.  It has nothing to do with it being legally wrong.


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## Sparrow (Mar 20, 2010)

Maybe we should just go ahead and make being fat illegal. It would clear up this whole mess about "fat rights."

Also I get a good laugh picturing large fella huddled in an alley getting his Dorito fix in secretely, so that's a plus.


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## Toby (Mar 20, 2010)

People are very dishonest about many things, and this is an issue where they need to take a stand. In the USA, where you have a problem both with a dysfunctional health care industry and with a rather obviously present obese group of citizens, the situation is pretty bad. The same can be said for the UK and China. Dealing with this is important since it feeds into making healthier lifestyles more expensive and because it actually makes unhealthy lifestyles cheaper.

As sick as that may sound, it's the truth, and there is no reserved right to be a burden on society or to yourself. In fact it is a problem to say that you don't care about what other people think, because they do think, and kids are much more likely to think it is acceptable if they see adults doing it. So it should start with adults.

This should be painfully obvious right now since reality-tv shows about forcing people to deal with their phobias and personal problems, such as obesity, addictions (including even consumerism) etc. are so damn popular. Society wants to see people with these problems confront them. And yet we also hold a social standard of not thinking we are better than others. There is an obvious disconnect here between the honest and the dishonest cultures that we have fostered. We can lose an entire generation to heart diseases if this keeps up.



The Space Cowboy said:


> Obese is not a protected class.  It is not integral to your being.  Quite frankly obesity should be treated like smoking--with the accompanying sanctions & stigmatization



Completely agreed.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> Oh Sauf, let's drop this ridiculousness and be honest, shall we? You won't admit it here, but we both know (even if only 'on some level' in your case) that all this is retroactive rationalization simply because you want to hate 'obese' people.



What ever gave you the impression that I hate fat people?



> If it is your ambition to do so, then I shall of course not consider it my place to tell you otherwise. All I can do is encourage you to be honest to *yourself*, because one of the things that _I_ hate is a lack of 'self-integrity'. You needn't argue: If I'm 'right', all that's left is for you to acknowledge yourself. If not, it only proves that I'm an insignificant idiot.
> 
> But I do suspect that you would do well to take a leaf from impersonal's book (of honesty) here. 'Fat arguments' in the mainstream really just serve as a talking point, so you can imagine how much of a joke most arguments over it are...



Just drop the shitty pseudo-psychology act. So far you have not addressed a single one of my arguments but instead avoided them by either attacking me directly or tossing around logical fallacies that have absolutely nothing to do with what I said.


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## Marmite (Mar 20, 2010)

Toby said:


> ...there is no reserved right to be a burden on society or to yourself...



Now, see, this seems to be the prejudice of you and many of the others in this thread: that 'obesity' is wildly unhealthy ('obesity = heart attack' etc.) and disdesirable before the fact.

The role of society and government is to provide for individuals; they adapt to the wills of persons and it was for this very end that they were created. Why, then, is it so obviously ridiculous for fat people to be tolerated or even supported by society?



Saufsoldat said:


> So far you have not addressed a single one of my arguments but instead avoided them by either attacking me directly or tossing around logical fallacies that have absolutely nothing to do with what I said.



My dear fellow, but what arguments _have_ you made? Indeed, that is the very point: You have made no arguments for your own position (other than--and I quote--"Except in a few rare cases, nobody is born a fatty, so screw you, fatties."). I asked you the relevance of 'the nature/choice' dichotomy you made and you turned the question back on me! So far all you've done is use the language and talking points of a bigot.


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## Toby (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> Now, see, this seems to be the prejudice of you and many of the others in this thread: that 'obesity' is wildly unhealthy ('obesity = heart attack' etc.) and disdesirable before the fact.
> 
> The role of society and government is to provide for individuals; they adapt to the wills of persons and it was for this very end that they were created. Why, then, is it so obviously ridiculous for fat people to be tolerated or even supported by society?



No. Stop.

I recognise that some people whose form of diabetes is clinical cannot help their condition, and that they in fact need medical assistance to ensure that they do not get heart problems later in life. That is what I recognise. That is what I urge to your attention.

What I conclude with is that those who make the choice alone and whose choices are the sole reason for being obese, are the real problem. There is no current method for helping people with certain types of diabetes to the extent that the condition is permanently solved, so we must stress that people make responsible choices. 

To respond to your post, I do not assume that this in unhealthy. I know that this is unhealthy. Go to a physician and ask them if you don't believe me. I won't debate medical facts because they are facts.

Second, the role of government is a wide-open debate to many, but its most basic function seems to be to protect people and to educate them - basic functions including raising army, police, fire-services, medical services and schooling for the public. Providing for individuals is a cultural interpretation. Where I am from the government provides for the masses. That too is cultural. I do not accept that simply because obesity exists, that it should exist. No thing should be accepted that way. The fact that people find loopholes in the amount of freedom they have so that they can live unhealthy lives has always been a problem for government.

If you are American you should know this all too well. It started with prohibition and became a war on drugs. Politics and health policy is a serious subject in the US and if you disagree then the whole health-care debate would be flying over your head. But it isn't, and that's because you realise part of the problem: The system is inefficient and bloated. 

Obese people are living on an extraordinarily extended long arm of the government already, because the government allows the unhealthy industries which provide for them to exist without the sort of taxation which similar industries such as the tobacco and alcohol industry, have to take into account.

Truly progressive societies have in fact started to tax drinks containing sugar because this is part of the problem of selling bottled water, but it can also be extended to help ensure that healthy foods should be sold in the marketplace at priority over unhealthy products which increase the chance of heart-diseases and costs which can kill or reduce the dignity of a person's life in the long run. Anyone who thinks that they should compete evenly out of some aesthetic wankery over the value of a free market should be severely beaten up because that is the exact same attitude which allows for a democracy to be hijacked by interest groups, monopolies and oligopolies.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> My dear fellow, but what arguments _have_ you made? Indeed, that is the very point: You have made no arguments for your own position (other than--and I quote--"Except in a few rare cases, nobody is born a fatty, so screw you, fatties."). I asked you the relevance of 'the nature/choice' dichotomy you made and you turned the question back on me! So far all you've done is use the language and talking points of a bigot.



I am asking you, yes, because my standpoint is universally recognized by society. Humans are responsible for choices made in their life. Even more so when these choices were made without any outside pressure. This is the standard by which we judge criminals. Are you saying we should stop doing that? Can't discriminate against a guy who murdered his wife, now can we?

What the hell are you trying to argue here? Nobody has the right to be treated equally regardless of the choices he makes in life.


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## Assimilate (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> Now, see, this seems to be the prejudice of you and many of the others in this thread: that 'obesity' is wildly unhealthy ('obesity = heart attack' etc.) and disdesirable before the fact.
> 
> The role of society and government is to provide for individuals; they adapt to the wills of persons and it was for this very end that they were created. Why, then, is it so obviously ridiculous for fat people to be tolerated or even supported by society?
> 
> ...



So, what you're saying is, you're a fatty?  And are butt-hurt?


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## impersonal (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> Now, see, this seems to be the prejudice of you and many of the others in this thread: that 'obesity' is wildly unhealthy ('obesity = heart attack' etc.) and disdesirable before the fact.


Are you arguing that obesity isn't ugly and unhealthy?
Because everything points to the fact that it is. Sometimes, fat people are healthy, but that's rather rare. Sure, some people have a fetish for obesity, but they're not exactly the majority; there's also people who like their partners to be smelly so... 

As I said earlier in this thread, being fat is, in a lot of ways, like being smelly. Being smelly: It's your fault except in very rare cases. It's disgusting. It usually comes together with health problems (poor hygienic care, like an inactive lifestyle, leads to illnesses). And it shows that you don't care much about yourself. For all of these reasons, smelly people are discriminated against.

Fat people are discriminated against for the same reasons. _(Note that fat is not as horrible for others as smell, so there's much more tolerance in the case of fat, compared to smell)_. Often, you can be fat and still be attractive, you'd just be much more attractive if you were thin. Often, fat people are doing good in other areas of their lives -- just not this one. But it's still a bad sign.

But in the end, if fat people suffer a social backslash, it's normal. It's like WOW players, meth addicts, people wearing really, really ugly clothes and people with dandruffs. The social backslash is an invitation to change their lifestyle.


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## Psych (Mar 20, 2010)

You should only have it if you have a real disorder with weight like a glandular problem.


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## Y (Mar 20, 2010)

I have little to no sympathy for people who don't take care of their bodies. You made your unhealthy choices and I'm going to judge you accordingly. If we're not to judge people based on their actions, what should our judgments be based upon?


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## krickitat (Mar 20, 2010)

I dont discount the fact that there are some out there who just dont put the fork down. I worked with alot of them and was disgusted myself. 
I just dont like the generalization, That because one fat person is guilty of a crime against self then ALL fat people are guilty of that crime. Sorry some fat people are unhireable and by the time they realize it is either to hard or too expensive to change.

the basis behind the study is that you could watch a regular weight person eat a sandwhich and be fine with it but watch and overweight person eat the same sandwhich and be disgusted. Thats not normal and its a thoughtless descrimination on such a basic and iontegral level thats its almost impossible to uproot it.

Thats just it you say you can judge them and thats fine, but you judge them based off no circumstantial evidence whatsoever. You say glandular and inherit diseases are ok but you dont KNOW the difference between one fat person who has glandular problems and a person who just eats to fill the void. You dont ever get a chance to say on your job application "oh BTW Im fat because I have a glandular condition." It stops at "im fat therefore unhireable"


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## Toby (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't fault every fat person. In fact I've made that clear, and I'm certain that everyone else in here makes the same distinction as I do. If it's medical, you can't deal with it. If you can deal with it, it's your fault.

More to the point, we just want people to care about their appearance and their problems, because when you don't care about your own problems, they become our problems.

No. Don't deny it. Health premiums are affected by it. Our kids think it is okay. A new generation of obese people shows up. It is impossible that most of the obese people in society all have a medical excuse for their situation, and while some of those people might be so poor that they cannot afford better, that still leaves a group of people whose responsibilities to shape up are being shoved down onto other people. That's what we are reacting at, and I will not be strawmanned.


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## krickitat (Mar 20, 2010)

yes but my main point out of that is that you say people who honestly have no control over it are different then people who do. But those people never get an opportunity to say. they are judged as "fat" the moment they walked through the door without anyone bothering to ask their circumstances.


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## Petenshi (Mar 20, 2010)

The point is berating them doesn't help them get better, in fact it makes it harder.


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## Marmite (Mar 20, 2010)

My point, Sauf, has been that something being a choice or not seems irrelevant to whether it is 'right or wrong'. All you've argued so far has been to state or support your original statement ("Except in a few rare cases, nobody is born a fatty, so screw you, fatties.") Surely 'screw you fatties' regardless of whether it is inborn or not. More to the point: You clearly disapprove of fat people. Why?

Watch my argument with Toby and you'll see more of my position.



Toby said:


> I know that this is unhealthy. Go to a physician and ask them if you don't believe me. I won't debate medical facts because they are facts.



I do not know this. The fat people there are typically have poor nutrition and eating habits and are extremely unfit. From what I've seen (and I admit this to be very little), the kinds of studies physicians will refer to show that 'obesity is unhealthy' to the extent it is claimed to be will not discriminate between these kinds of fat people and fat people who, say, run every day meet their nutritional requirements and eat regular meals at good time and so forth. Everybody seems to forget it when it comes to fat (usually due to bigotry, although I doubt it in your case), but correlation doesn't imply causation etc., but this is exactly the fallacy used when people point to studies of fat people with poor general health as 'proof' that 'obesity' (which really just means roughly a significant level of fatness, it seems) will do things like 'kill whole generations'. This is all despite how much society is fixated upon fatness and how much research is done into its effects. (It's worth also pointing out in general that a moderate level of fat has been claimed to be beneficial in some respects.)

So the arguments predicated upon fatness or even 'obesity' being significantly unhealthy are usually ill-founded.



Toby said:


> Second, the role of government is a wide-open debate to many, but its most basic function seems to be to protect people and to educate them - basic functions including raising army, police, fire-services, medical services and schooling for the public. Providing for individuals is a cultural interpretation. Where I am from the government provides for the masses. That too is cultural.



I thought you might say this =). 'Providing for the masses' in this sense doesn't seem to be necessarily different from what I said: Providing for the masses is still providing for individuals. Now, common interests like clean water, police and so forth are higher priorities than more specific ones like being fat. But more and more people are becoming obese and apparently don't want to stop being obese enough to do so. They enjoy eating (a lot) and not exercising enough to counteract that enough that they become obese. Many more people would appreciate their fatness and more would choose to be fat if fat people weren't constantly victims of bigotry and discrimination. If a quarter or a third or a half of a nation want to indulge their gluttonous side like that, 'who are you' to say otherwise? (Actually, I made a whole thread kinda about that question in the Philosophy section. Your contribution would be most welcome.)



Toby said:


> The fact that people find loopholes in the amount of freedom they have so that they can live unhealthy lives has always been a problem for government.



You are still presuming it wrong to 'live an unhealthy life'. That's your prerogative, of course, but you 'can't' expect other people to agree if all they're seeing is a high-level assumption. I presume you find it absurd to expect people to completely optimize their level of health, so my question becomes why do you draw that line there--such that obesity is intolerable?


And I appreciate the rest of your post: Too many people just leave it at 'fatties should get off their asses' without focusing on any of the other relevant factors.



impersonal said:


> Are you arguing that obesity isn't ugly...



A valid question, but one I see as outside the scope of the question of whether fatness/obesity should be accepted, tolerated or so forth.



impersonal said:


> [Smelliness analogy]



This is an interesting analogy, and one across which I haven't come before.

While I think it can be valid to find smells intolerable, I would say in this case too that one shouldn't presume as to the causes of a smell or marginalize a smelly person.

I don't think I could accept forcing someone out of sight or to change their appearance because they are considered unsightly. Add to that that how much of the disgust at fat people is because of bigotry or social attitudes (or even made up) in the first place, and I don't think fatness could be condemned on grounds of unsightliness.



impersonal said:


> The social backslash is an invitation to change their lifestyle.



And of course there is valid criticism to be made of _particular_ people for being fat for particular reasons. But most of the backlash is, of course, not reasonable and is harmful. (And, probably, a strong, ironic argument could be made that we've increased the obesity rate by introducing so much insecurity and stigma.)



Edit: Also, people go on about 'choice' and so forth. The only difference between 'someone with a medical condition' and that person who's tried every diet there is and comes back bigger than ever every time is that the former's case is recognized as its own formal medical condition. Despite all the stigma, look at all the fat people there are who fail to 'slim'. The only difference between choice and non-choice is a bit of probability. Probabilistically, somebody who tries to stop being obese will fail. Someone previously choosing to do things that would make them obese does not mean that they still want to be that way. It takes above-average effort to go from one to the other, so saying that someone who 'could slim' is lazy because they try but fail is fallacious; all it proves is that their willpower to slim is less than their willpower to do things against that. Just like a drug addict might want to get clean but never manage it.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> My point, Sauf, has been that something being a choice or not seems irrelevant to whether it is 'right or wrong'.



And that's just plain bullshit. We have more sympathy for someone who was blackmailed into a crime than for someone who chose to commit that crime. I have no idea why you deny such simple concepts that are universally agreed upon.



> All you've argued so far has been to state or support your original statement ("Except in a few rare cases, nobody is born a fatty, so screw you, fatties.") Surely 'screw you fatties' regardless of whether it is inborn or not. More to the point: You clearly disapprove of fat people. Why?



I disapprove of fatties whining and bathing in self-pity over the fact that they're discriminated against. You're not entitled to being fat without any negative repercussions.


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## Toby (Mar 20, 2010)

krickitat said:


> yes but my main point out of that is that you say people who honestly have no control over it are different then people who do. But those people never get an opportunity to say. they are judged as "fat" the moment they walked through the door without anyone bothering to ask their circumstances.



No, I didn't say that. Maybe I implied it but that's because I don't put enough effort into my posts any more. Anyway, obviously they are different types of people since some have medical conditions, some don't, and some of these people make better choices than others. Better should be understood in the terms of having a healthy diet. That's been my point all along and I do stand by the statement that this is the right thing to do. Not just because science says so, but because I genuinely believe it is the right thing to do.

Now as for how we judge people, there's no way I'm going to get a person's life story just because they walked in through the door. I'm certainly not interested in it. If I am, I'll ask, and I think employers should. Consider where you stand on the issue of whether employers should have access to job applicant's health background: Do you think that the amount of access they have to this information determines whether or not they will judge the person on appearances or not?



Marmite said:


> I do not know this. The fat people there are typically have poor nutrition and eating habits and are extremely unfit. From what I've seen (and I admit this to be very little), the kinds of studies physicians will refer to show that 'obesity is unhealthy' to the extent it is claimed to be will not discriminate between these kinds of fat people and fat people who, say, run every day meet their nutritional requirements and eat regular meals at good time and so forth. Everybody seems to forget it when it comes to fat (usually due to bigotry, although I doubt it in your case), but correlation doesn't imply causation etc., but this is exactly the fallacy used when people point to studies of fat people with poor general health as 'proof' that 'obesity' (which really just means roughly a significant level of fatness, it seems) will do things like 'kill whole generations'. This is all despite how much society is fixated upon fatness and how much research is done into its effects. (It's worth also pointing out in general that a moderate level of fat has been claimed to be beneficial in some respects.)
> 
> So the arguments predicated upon fatness or even 'obesity' being significantly unhealthy are usually ill-founded.



And you misunderstood me completely. It's because you use fat as interchangably as I use the word obese. That's because I am talking about obese people and not fat people. I try to avoid using the word because it's not what I want to talk about, and I don't see fatness as the subject. I know a moderate amount of fat is good for you and I'm not talking about it. I'm talking about people who make stupid decisions because their diet is unhealthy - diet meaning intake of food and corresponding exercise.

Not once did I blame people who can't help it, and more than once I have clarified that I am making the medical argument - that some decisions are bad, and they do ruin things for others. I am not making some mean joke at fat people. I know some fat guys on rowing teams with bulky muscles that would scare the bejeezers out of you guys, but they are not obese. Diet is about what you eat and what exercise you have. Perhaps this is the clarification which I should have made to begin with, since you guys don't seem to see my argument for what it is.



Marmite said:


> I thought you might say this =). 'Providing for the masses' in this sense doesn't seem to be necessarily different from what I said: Providing for the masses is still providing for individuals. Now, common interests like clean water, police and so forth are higher priorities than more specific ones like being fat. But more and more people are becoming obese and apparently don't want to stop being obese enough to do so. They enjoy eating (a lot) and not exercising enough to counteract that enough that they become obese. Many more people would appreciate their fatness and more would choose to be fat if fat people weren't constantly victims of bigotry and discrimination. If a quarter or a third or a half of a nation want to indulge their gluttonous side like that, 'who are you' to say otherwise? (Actually, I made a whole thread kinda about that question in the Philosophy section. Your contribution would be most welcome.)



1. My point was that you were wasting time on semantics. Who government provides for doesn't matter because in the end it provides for everyone. Phrase it however you wish but it does and I'm not wasting time on that any more.
2. Again, the use of the word fat as opposed to obese. This discussion isn't about fat people, but obese people. I'm sure a slightly bulged tummy isn't grounds for the sort of discrimination we're talking about here or it would be a discussion on beauty etc. 
3. The decision to eat unhealthily because it makes you happy can be likened to taking drugs because it makes you happy. Both are bad for your body. I wouldn't mind if there was some consideration for moderation here, mind you, but that's not what I'm talking about. 
4. Who am I to say otherwise? I'm using my rights to say that it is disgusting and bad for you. I don't say that to every person who I think is slightly chubby or who doesn't look like an adonis. I would say it to a close friend who is obese and who I don't want to lose. That's who I am. Don't even think of implying otherwise or you are a monster.



Marmite said:


> You are still presuming it wrong to 'live an unhealthy life'. That's your prerogative, of course, but you 'can't' expect other people to agree if all they're seeing is a high-level assumption. I presume you find it absurd to expect people to completely optimize their level of health, so my question becomes why do you draw that line there--such that obesity is intolerable?



It is not an assumption. You just admitted you don't know about this and I'm telling you it is medically speaking unhealthy - so it is unhealthy. I am not generalising as in - it's bad for your mind and spirit - though I'm sure we can find indicative proof that people who are healthier on average are either happier due to physical benefit or social approval. 

I don't assume a thing about how realistic it is to convert people, but I do think that the fast food industry is going to be the end of many countries if we don't fight it at some point. I myself find it easy to regulate how often I eat unhealthy food and there's no reason why my friends or other people shouldn't either. 



Marmite said:


> And I appreciate the rest of your post: Too many people just leave it at 'fatties should get off their asses' without focusing on any of the other relevant factors.



Well I am trying to be realistic here. I think a sugar-tax is well justified. If people were more informed about this in the USA then they'd know how large the import-barriers to sugar are there. But I bet they don't know. I bet they don't even know that there are federal documents attempting to regulate how much sugar gets into their diet based on serious medical attempts to help the people get healthy foods. I bet they don't know this because they are told that whenever government does something it means less freedom.

Since when was freedom a value in and of itself? 



Marmite said:


> A valid question, but one I see as outside the scope of the question of whether fatness/obesity should be accepted, tolerated or so forth.



I completely disagree. I see every problem and issue related both to the mental aspect of understanding it and regarding the public issue of policy - we must solve issues, not sit on our asses.

I support the initiative to provide heroin for heroin addicts because it undercuts the illegal drug market, thereby reducing exposure to crime - and because it is more efficient on a microeconomic level to provide for a need than to try vastly more expensive and probably inefficient mechanisms for rehab.

Public rehab for people who are obese is unfortunately still in the same problematic box. If the government or local communities were to pool efforts for healthy activities for kids more we might be able to avoid the problem, and increase access to good measures. But parents have to get kids out of the house, the kids have to follow up, and then one day when they grow up, they must pass on the same teachings. This is not politics, this is basically recognising that your body works in certain ways and not in the unsightly other ways that are actually a drain on society and the planet's resources.


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## Marmite (Mar 20, 2010)

Saufsoldat said:


> And that's just plain bullshit. We have more sympathy for someone who was blackmailed into a crime than for someone who chose to commit that crime. I have no idea why you deny such simple concepts that are universally agreed upon.



Bingo! More sympathy. But whether or not something is 'right or wrong' (desirable or undesirable; tolerable or intolerable) is independent of this. The killings of the born killer and the made killer are equally bad.

Now, the badness of a choice is a different matter...



Saufsoldat said:


> I disapprove of fatties whining and bathing in self-pity over the fact that they're discriminated against. You're not entitled to being fat without any negative repercussions.



This is why you're a bigot: You're still dismissing these people's complaints as 'whining', still calling them 'fatties' (although I admit that you might not realize the derogatory connotations of that word); still presuming discrimination against them to be a reasonable repercussion. You are begging the question because you're not really listening because you've already made up your mind that 'fatties are a bunch of whiners'.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> Bingo! More sympathy. But whether or not something is 'right or wrong' (desirable or undesirable; tolerable or intolerable) is independent of this. The killings of the born killer and the made killer are equally bad.



wat.

Right and wrong are not objective standards, they directly correlate with us being able to comprehend the motives that influenced the person's choice. 



> This is why you're a bigot: You're still dismissing these people's complaints as 'whining', still calling them 'fatties' (although I admit that you might not realize the derogatory connotations of that word); still presuming discrimination against them to be a reasonable repercussion. You are begging the question because you're not really listening because you've already made up your mind that 'fatties are a bunch of whiners'.



The fatties (I am well aware of the connotations, I just enjoy the thought of some fatty somewhere raging over it) in the article are whiners. Not all overweight people claim want everyone to be okay with it. I know some who want to be kicked in the ass so they finally do something about their weight. As long as they understand and acknowledge that their behavior is unhealthy, there's nothing for them to whine about. 

If I were addicted to heroine, I wouldn't want people to be okay with it, because it's destructive behavior and should be discriminated against.


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## OodboO (Mar 20, 2010)

*Fat people are viewed as the ones who have no control over themselves. 
Someone who doesn't take care of themselves. Someone who doesn't love their body enough to treasure it by eating healthy. 
Those are some of the basic prejudges that make others reject obese people in any way.
Other then the "beauty standard" people only tend to blame things on.
Rights these people are asking for are human rights, and yes they should be allowed to have a job they want if they are going to work hard regardless of their weight.

But they have no right comparing their situation to the situation black people were in. Or the situation woman were in, in the past.
The ones who were discriminated like this, were born like this. They couldn't bleach their skin or change their sex, even if they wanted to. And they were perfectly capable of preforming any task as any white man or male.

So the certain amount of different treatment in some situations is normal. I don't see the reason make a big deal out of it uless it's taking away their human rights. 

Now obese people, aren't physically capable of doing many things skinny people are. 
Then, they are unhealthy and therefore less likely to be "trusted" with something there is a chance that their health might stop them from doing.
If they are the only ones forced to enroll into a health program in a school, then it is fair as long as they are the only ones failing the health test. If that tests only consists of stepping on a scale, then I also think it's not fair. =/ 

Health is much more then that. The difference between skinny and fat people is that we can see it on fat people and rarely on skinny people. But just because skinny people "get away with it", it doesn't change the fact that fat (obese that is) people are still regularly unhealthy and easily called on that because of their appearance. 

I only partially agree with this topic.

Please make a distinction between just fat and obese. Google it, I'm too lazy to explain. *


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## Marmite (Mar 20, 2010)

Saufsoldat said:


> wat.



Quite right. I think I brainfarted there.



Saufsoldat said:


> Right and wrong are not objective standards, they directly correlate with us being able to comprehend the motives that influenced the person's choice.



So then: Why do you think that the motives for allowing oneself to become fat or choosing to become fat are always invalid?



Saufsoldat said:


> If I were addicted to heroine, I wouldn't want people to be okay with it, because it's destructive behavior and should be discriminated against.



(See what I said to Toby about this claim about the unhealthiness of obesity.)

I'd agree. But I think there are several differences. Bear in mind that it's not even the need to physically take the stuff that is so bad about drug addiction--i.e., it's not the addiction itself--but the other effects such as health effects and what these in turn cause (such as theft, aggression etc.) I have yet to hear any convincing benefits to drug addiction. For becoming or allowing oneself to become fat, however, there are a few (and I'll keep 'em brief):

-Liking the eating habits
-Sensual concerns
-Sexual concerns
-Aesthetics
-Body image, imagery etc.
-Health (mental or physical)


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## Hand Banana (Mar 20, 2010)

I used to be fat. Then I started working out and lowering the proportion of food I ate. I never changed my diet. And I never took any diet pills. How hard is that for someone to do?


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## impersonal (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:
			
		

> -Liking the eating habits
> -Sensual concerns
> -Sexual concerns
> -Aesthetics
> ...



Except for the first one, this sounds a lot like a list of advantages for _not_ being fat, whereas being fat, in an *overwhelming* majority of cases, harms sensual/sexual concerns, aesthetics, body image, and health (mental and physical).


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## Aokiji (Mar 20, 2010)

Honestly, who the hell do people think they are to tell people how to look like.


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## Marmite (Mar 20, 2010)

impersonal said:


> Except for the first one, this sounds a lot like a list of advantages for _not_ being fat, whereas being fat, in an *overwhelming* majority of cases, harms sensual/sexual concerns, aesthetics, body image, and health (mental and physical).



But can you see how they can be advantages _for_ being fat?


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## Psallo a Cappella (Mar 20, 2010)

krickitat said:


> yes but my main point out of that is that you say people who honestly have no control over it are different then people who do. But those people never get an opportunity to say. they are judged as "fat" the moment they walked through the door without anyone bothering to ask their circumstances.


People are still judged on race, clothes, posture, and their fucking hair color. We cannot truly force others to be impartial, no matter how unfair it is. We are forced, every day, to make snap-decisions based on appearance alone, and we also do it, often, unconsciously. Do you have some way to change this? Probably not.

And it has been fine for several people in this thread to defend obesity by attacking people who are naturally thin, or even just average / fit - no one has qualms about bitching about "HOMG EAT A CHEESEBURGER" or accusing someone of "not eating". These comments are also readily destructive to young women and are also a reason for eating disorders. Since I have been on both sides of the weight coin, clincially and socially, the hypocrisy is succeeding in getting on my nerves.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 20, 2010)

Aokiji said:


> Honestly, who the hell do people think they are to tell people how to look like.



your on the wrong topic. 

This thread is about people having an unhealthy self destructive lifestyle...with a high chance to cost your work/society more. 

Ofcourse there is a reaction/response..this is logical. Asking to be treated the same despite these self-caused differences is retarded.


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## impersonal (Mar 20, 2010)

Marmite said:


> But can you see how they can be advantages _for_ being fat?



There's chubby, which can be cute and healthy (especially if you're also doing sports) and there's obese. Some people wear their fat very well and I doubt they're very much discriminated against. I've never seen someone obese or morbidly obese wearing his fat well.


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## Mider T (Mar 20, 2010)

So in short, fatties complain more than skinny people about being teased.  Sounds like insecurity if I ever saw it.


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## K (Mar 20, 2010)

Am I the only one, (besides Mider T ) who find this funny?


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## bobomb (Mar 20, 2010)

Let's differentiate between "soft" and downright "obese". Soft is great! I like soft. However, you don't want to completely let yourself go.


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## full_metal_ninja (Mar 20, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppBcywxUOkc[/YOUTUBE]


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## Fuzzly (Mar 21, 2010)

Saufsoldat said:


> wat.
> 
> Right and wrong are not objective standards, they directly correlate with us being able to comprehend the motives that influenced the person's choice.
> 
> ...



Except this is retarded. If you look at anyone's life close enough you can find a number of destructive bad habits, and not everyone wants to be berated for their choices all the time. People who text and drive live unhealthy lives. People who live sedentary lives (most of America) have unhealthy choices. Most fat people recognize being fat is unhealthy. 

Are you really comparing a heroine addiction to being fat? That's a pretty bad analogy my friend. You can try to make it work, but I'm sure you know how stupid it is.

I smoke pot. Smoking pot is unhealthy. Does that mean I should be OK with people trying to troll/berate me for my choice? Telling me smoking pot is unhealthy is stating the obvious. Everyone makes unhealthy choices (even some that aren't as obvious or disagreeable as a heroine addiction) like drinking too much coffee or whatever. 

If you enjoy being a dick by pointing out every flaw in others in the hopes to aggravate them (in this case you enjoy insulting fatties) then whatever. However this won't get you very far in a non-anonymous setting, would it?

Sounds to me like you have an irrational hatred of these "pro-fat" people. At the least it's interesting to see how much you care about their feelings (you don't want them to be excepted, yet you care about their reaction to you. If you think so little of them, why do you get enjoyment out of annoying them?) I think you should take a step back and ask yourself why you enjoy trying to aggravate these people. 

My guess is that you post on these boards so you can get into arguments and "win" them because it makes you feel good. Or maybe you like to feel like you're intellectually superior so you hang around a giant website that will obviously be full of retards because it's easy. You obviously enjoy feeling superior (who doesn't?) but I think spending a large amount of time on a message board just to fuel your ego is a bit unhealthy.


You're welcome.

Edit- For the record I don't think it's good to be fat either.


----------



## superattackpea (Mar 21, 2010)

Personally I love the intro, in which she explains why healthy kids make her feel bad about herself. Honestly how screwed up psychologically do you have to be in order to see kids eating right as a slight against the fact you're lazy and fat.


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## Rukia (Mar 21, 2010)

Fat people are slow.  They always seem to impede my path at the mall or ball game.  Fat people should be ridiculed.  It might actually encourage them to lose a few pounds.  I never see fat people at my gym or any other gym I have ever worked out at.  The truth is that most of them aren't trying to be healthy.

No sympathy from me.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 21, 2010)

Rukia said:


> Fat people are slow.  They always seem to impede my path at the mall or ball game.  Fat people should be ridiculed.  It might actually encourage them to lose a few pounds.  I never see fat people at my gym or any other gym I have ever worked out at.  The truth is that most of them aren't trying to be healthy.
> 
> No sympathy from me.



You know, most fat people don't go to gyms because they are lazy. Its because they feel like their peers will ridicule them, kinda like what you're doing. Being fat isn't fun. As i said before i used to be obese. It took me a long time to build up courage to go to a gym and work out. And as i mentioned i could hear people ridiculing me for being fat.

I stopped going after that because my self esteem was really low. It wasn't until i talked to a friend who said they wouldn't mind going to the gym with me. Its not easy being fat. And a lot of people who are fat don't enjoy it. And in America's society being skinny is definitely something thats being over glorified on.


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## Fuzzly (Mar 21, 2010)

Rukia said:


> Fat people are slow.They always seem to impede my path at the mall or ball game. Fat people should be ridiculed.  It might actually encourage them to lose a few pounds.  I never see fat people at my gym or any other gym I have ever worked out at.  The truth is that most of them aren't trying to be healthy.
> 
> No sympathy from me.



Dumb people are slow. Whenever I'm at a ballgame or mall I see them trailing behind fat people making "ahh jeeze" noises as if they couldn't simply walk around them. Who knows, maybe the retards think they have to walk _through_ people to get in front of them. At the gym they drool on the equipment and on narutoforums they make god awful posts. The truth is that most of them aren't trying to be normal.

No sympathy from me.


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## First Tsurugi (Mar 21, 2010)

This reminds me of that one Family Guy episode with Robert Downey Jr.

So, will we be seeing a real NAAFP one day?


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 21, 2010)

Marmite said:


> So then: Why do you think that the motives for allowing oneself to become fat or choosing to become fat are always invalid?



Because laziness is never an admirable trait.



> (See what I said to Toby about this claim about the unhealthiness of obesity.)



It's unhealthy, period. People that are slightly overweight may generally have a better health, as nature intended for us to be able to have some fat reserves in our bodies, but I don't think anyone here is talking about those people. You may want to have a look at the definition of overweight and obesity:



			
				World Health Organization said:
			
		

> *Overweight and obesity are defined as abnormal or excessive fat accumulation that presents a risk to health.* A crude population measure of obesity is the body mass index (BMI), a person?s weight (in kilograms) divided by the square of his or her height (in metres). A person with a BMI of 30 or more is generally considered obese. A person with a BMI equal to or more than 25 is considered overweight.
> 
> Overweight and obesity are major risk factors for a number of chronic diseases, including diabetes, cardiovascular diseases and cancer. Once considered a problem only in high income countries, overweight and obesity are now dramatically on the rise in low- and middle-income countries, particularly in urban settings.



I'd agree. But I think there are several differences. Bear in mind that it's not even the need to physically take the stuff that is so bad about drug addiction--i.e., it's not the addiction itself--but the other effects such as health effects and what these in turn cause (such as theft, aggression etc.) I have yet to hear any convincing benefits to drug addiction. For becoming or allowing oneself to become fat, however, there are a few (and I'll keep 'em brief):

-Liking the eating habits
-Sensual concerns
-Sexual concerns
-Aesthetics
-Body image, imagery etc.
-Health (mental or physical)[/QUOTE]

Liking to eat is similar to liking to get high and the rest is negatively influenced by overweight.



Fuzzly said:


> Except this is retarded. If you look at anyone's life close enough you can find a number of destructive bad habits, and not everyone wants to be berated for their choices all the time. People who text and drive live unhealthy lives. People who live sedentary lives (most of America) have unhealthy choices. Most fat people recognize being fat is unhealthy.



And for the last fucking time, it's all fine by me as long as they're not expecting me to support them. I don't go around telling smokers how bad it is what they're doing and same goes for fatties but when they complain about being discriminated against, I think they need to wake up from that fantasy world that they live in. We judge people by their actions and if the sole motivation for those actions are laziness and satisfying such primitive needs as appetite (not hunger) then the judgement will not be positive.



> Are you really comparing a heroine addiction to being fat? That's a pretty bad analogy my friend. You can try to make it work, but I'm sure you know how stupid it is.



Only because the person I am debating with seems to think it's not ok to treat people differently regardless of what unhealthy choices they make.



> I smoke pot. Smoking pot is unhealthy. Does that mean I should be OK with people trying to troll/berate me for my choice? Telling me smoking pot is unhealthy is stating the obvious. Everyone makes unhealthy choices (even some that aren't as obvious or disagreeable as a heroine addiction) like drinking too much coffee or whatever.
> 
> If you enjoy being a dick by pointing out every flaw in others in the hopes to aggravate them (in this case you enjoy insulting fatties) then whatever. However this won't get you very far in a non-anonymous setting, would it?
> 
> Sounds to me like you have an irrational hatred of these "pro-fat" people. At the least it's interesting to see how much you care about their feelings (you don't want them to be excepted, yet you care about their reaction to you. If you think so little of them, why do you get enjoyment out of annoying them?) I think you should take a step back and ask yourself why you enjoy trying to aggravate these people.



For the record, it was the fatties that started. The premise of the OP is clearly fat people complaining about discrimination, so I answer. I did not go out of my way to insult fat people, they went out of their way to whine about being mistreated. That's why I felt the need to point out that fatties need to STFU.



> My guess is that you post on these boards so you can get into arguments and "win" them because it makes you feel good. Or maybe you like to feel like you're intellectually superior so you hang around a giant website that will obviously be full of retards because it's easy. You obviously enjoy feeling superior (who doesn't?) but I think spending a large amount of time on a message board just to fuel your ego is a bit unhealthy.



Wow, I never though of it this way, Dr. Freudzzly. I guess I do feel attracted to street lamps because of some childhood trauma.


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## dummy plug (Mar 21, 2010)

the obese are still in the minority


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## Gaawa-chan (Mar 21, 2010)

There is so much fucking ignorant fail in the responses to this thread. 



> Only because the person I am debating with seems to think it's not ok to treat people differently regardless of what unhealthy choices they make.



Give me a good reason why you should if what they are doing doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.
Oh, wait... you don't have one. 



Let me start by saying that people are GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED to certain weights and certain habits.  In other words, some people are more prone to a specific weight and some people are more prone to specific habits.  This is why a skinny person can eat a shit-ton and not gain any weight and an overweight person can eat three meals of yogurt and celery sticks and not lose an ounce.


But for the obese, it is not usually a matter of genetics.  Food addiction is in no way any different from a drug addiction, and as someone mentioned before, only butthurt conservatives condemn marijuana smokers and that's usually because they have no fucking idea what they're talking about.  Same thing goes here.


Those who do not understand anything about how FOOD relates to MENTAL HEALTH will obviously not understand this.  Odd, considering that our BRAIN is part of our BODY. 


You ALSO do not fix a 'bad habit' by ridiculing or making a person feel like shit for having it; at best it will do nothing and at worst it encourages the behavior.  If you think that actually helps, you need to go take a course in psychology.  And maybe have someone shove their fist up your ass for good measure.


People with a trait that has been labeled a social stigma are ashamed of it because of people like you, Saufsoldat, and guess what?  You're the kind of person who contributes to the problem.  Please go fuck yourself.



Btw, I am not overweight, nor have I ever been, as I'm sure some of you will try to write me off in that way.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 21, 2010)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Give me a good reason why you should if what they are doing doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.
> Oh, wait... you don't have one.



When did I say that I'd do?

I'm sick an tired of being strawmanned here.

The way you portray the situation, I run around, poking fatties with a stick and pointing my finger at them. As long as they acknowledge that they're the ones with the problem, not the rest of society, there is absolutely no conflict between me and overweight people.


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## Gaawa-chan (Mar 21, 2010)

armorknight said:


> Low metabolism is not going to result in obesity if one eats properly and/or exercises.



It is unwise to make such a sweeping statement as if it were absolute truth when others who have studied the subject KNOW it to be false in many instances.



Saufsoldat said:


> I disapprove of fatties whining and bathing in self-pity over the fact that they're discriminated against. You're not entitled to being fat without any negative repercussions.





Saufsoldat said:


> So basically we should not treat people differently regardless of what choices they made in life?



EVERYONE should have the right to do WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT to THEMSELVES without regards to ANYONE ELSE so long as what THEY DO does not infringe on ANYONE ELSE'S RIGHTS.



Petenshi said:


> The point is berating them doesn't help them get better, in fact it makes it harder.



At least someone got it. 



Saufsoldat said:


> When did I say that I'd do?



"Only because the person I am debating with seems to think it's not ok to treat people differently regardless of what unhealthy choices they make. "

Translation: I think it is okay to treat people differently because of unhealthy choices they make.

What I meant: Give me a good reason why you should (treat people differently because of the unhealthy choices they make) if what they are doing doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.

Still waiting...

Btw, I am wondering why you didn't actually address anything I said. 

Edit: Sauf, I'm going to bed so I won't be able to reply to whatever you say for several hours at least.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 21, 2010)

Gaawa-chan said:


> EVERYONE should have the right to do WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT to THEMSELVES without regards to ANYONE ELSE so long as what THEY DO does not infringe on ANYONE ELSE'S RIGHTS.



Which brings us back to our smelly example. Smelling does not infringe on anyone's rights so you say it would not be okay to refuse someone who smells disgusting a job?



> "Only because the person I am debating with seems to think it's not ok to treat people differently regardless of what unhealthy choices they make. "
> 
> Translation: I think it is okay to treat people differently because of unhealthy choices they make.



How does "it's ok do x" translate to "I do x"?



> What I meant: Give me a good reason why you should (treat people differently because of the unhealthy choices they make) if what they are doing doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.
> 
> Still waiting...
> 
> ...



I didn't address anything you said because it has nothing to do with my point of view. And once again, nobody should discriminate for any reason at all, I'm just saying what is justified in my opinion. 

"it's ok to do x" =/= "everyone should do x"

Really, there are so many good reasons to discriminate against overweight people. You could refuse to let them enter an elevator because they're too heavy, you could refuse them a job because their less healthy/less productive or you could refuse to sell them tickets because they don't fit in a seat.


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## Petenshi (Mar 21, 2010)

Saufsoldat said:


> Which brings us back to our smelly example. Smelling does not infringe on anyone's rights so you say it would not be okay to refuse someone who smells disgusting a job?



Smelling badly actually affects people near the person who smells. Being overweight does not. Unless your in some cramped space I suppose.





> Really, there are so many good reasons to discriminate against overweight people. You could refuse to let them enter an elevator because they're too heavy, you could refuse them a job because their less healthy/less productive or you could refuse to sell them tickets because they don't fit in a seat.



If thats the case, we should discriminate all life choices we disagree with, or think is unhealthy. Abortion, Homosexuality, Piercings, Reconstuctive surgery patients(The non-life threatening ones, as otherwise it wouldn't really be a choice.), and a whole lot of other things. It paves the way for more hate. It doesn't do any good to discriminate people period. If we were really interested in getting fat people out of society, because thats what it seems like you want to do, we would try to help them not allow them to wallow in self defeat. By no means do I think we should justify obesity, but by the same token making fun of them solves nothing.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 21, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Smelling badly actually affects people near the person who smells. Being overweight does not. Unless your in some cramped space I suppose.



It does not infringe on anyone's rights.



> If thats the case, we should discriminate all life choices we disagree with, or think is unhealthy. Abortion, Homosexuality, Piercings, Reconstuctive surgery patients(The non-life threatening ones, as otherwise it wouldn't really be a choice.), and a whole lot of other things. It paves the way for more hate. It doesn't do any good to discriminate people period. If we were really interested in getting fat people out of society, because thats what it seems like you want to do, we would try to help them not allow them to wallow in self defeat. By no means do I think we should justify obesity, but by the same token making fun of them solves nothing.



It's like talking to a motherfucking wall here. I HAVE AT NO POINT SAID THAT WE SHOULD DISCRIMINATE AGAINST FAT PEOPLE. I mean Jesus Christ, what the flying fuck?


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## Petenshi (Mar 21, 2010)

Saufsoldat said:


> It does not infringe on anyone's rights.
> 
> 
> 
> It's like talking to a motherfucking wall here. I HAVE AT NO POINT SAID THAT WE SHOULD DISCRIMINATE AGAINST FAT PEOPLE. I mean Jesus Christ, what the flying fuck?




Oh , perhaps I just misread sarcasm.


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## Le Pirate (Mar 21, 2010)

What the hell? Give the obese rights? Is this what America is coming to?


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 21, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Oh , perhaps I just misread sarcasm.



It was not sarcasm but people need to get it through their thick skull that can =/= should. I don't think anyone should do drugs, but I'm all for legalizing them. I don't think you should discriminate against fat people but I don't think it should be illegal or frowned upon. There are jobs that require good health and there's a huge difference between discriminating against someone and not accommodating someone.


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## Fuzzly (Mar 21, 2010)

Saufsoldat said:


> Wow, I never though of it this way, Dr. Freudzzly. I guess I do feel attracted to street lamps because of some childhood trauma.



The rest of your post was TL;DR, so I skipped to the end. You're welcome. Just know it's unhealthy and I don't approve of it nor should you be accepted for it.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 21, 2010)

No. No sympathy from me. Fuck you and lose weight if you don't like it. 

Also, Fuzzly, next time you call a forum you post on "a giant website that will obviously be full of retards", make sure your post count isn't in the quadruple digits.


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## Fuzzly (Mar 21, 2010)

Echo% said:


> No. No sympathy from me. Fuck you and lose weight if you don't like it.
> 
> Also, Fuzzly, next time you call a forum you post on "a giant website that will obviously be full of retards", make sure your post count isn't in the quadruple digits.



First, perhaps you may be taking me seriously (bad idea). Second, I think you're going to need to explain what exactly you're saying and the logic behind it.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 21, 2010)

Deputy Myself said:


> Thats because its becoming increasingly more uncommon.



Where the hell are these fat people in America everyone talks about? What exactly are people considering fat? I'm pretty sure this line is different for everyone. For instance some people think this is fat:



Whereas I would disagree. 

Anyways, everyone says America is full of fat people... what is it that they consider fat? Because we don't have many that I can see.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 21, 2010)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Give me a good reason why you should if what they are doing doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.
> Oh, wait... you don't have one.



One is responsible for ones choices and actions. 
Negative choices or self-destructive lifestyles will be regarded negatively. 
When this lifestyle also puts more strain on others...the critiscism and negative responses will increase. 



This logical fact of life is something the OP post was whining about. 

We should ignore that is it self-destructive
We should ignore that it is biologically natural to be regarded as unattractive
We should ignore the average reduced productivity
We should ignore the average greater costs for the workplace and society. 

We should all turn a blind eye to this...and pretend the morbidly obese are beautifull, healthy, and productive...hell LAWS should be implemented to stop ""obese discrimination"". 
This goes further then discrimination...this is trying to illegalize making distinctions...and reacting negatively to a certain lifestyle. Its insane. 

And for what??? to not to hurt their oversensitive feelings....




Gaawa-chan said:


> You ALSO do not fix a 'bad habit' by ridiculing or making a person feel like shit for having it; at best it will do nothing and at worst it encourages the behavior.


 
Playing pretend....Ignoring all the negative effects and consequences to enable the obese to live in a sheltered fantasy world where ""fat=beautifull"" and ""they are just as able and healthy as everyone else"" is DEFINATELY not how you fix a bad habit. 

you sound like an enabler of self destructive behaviour Gaawa.....


You do bring up some good points though. Too much attacks and ridicule shatters their self esteem which will not help them shake off the bad lifestyle And in some (sub)cultures there is a skewed standard going on. The anorhexic models are far from healthy. Thin people can still carry a lot of fat around the internal organs etc. etc. 

We should limit the discussion about obesity...and not drag in cultural aesthetics (eye of the beholder) in this.


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## Mider T (Mar 21, 2010)

I've seen the Member Pic thread.  

The only ones in here making excuses like "Genetic disposition" are fatties.  Nobody in shape is making the argument so I call babble.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I've seen the Member Pic thread.
> 
> The only ones in here making excuses like "Genetic disposition" are fatties.  Nobody in shape is making the argument so I call babble.



I made an argument.


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## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

What part of them isn't in plain sight?


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## Mider T (Mar 21, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> I made an argument.



You changed yourself though.


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## impersonal (Mar 21, 2010)

> Negative choices or self-destructive lifestyles will be regarded negatively.



This... An employer can choose his employees based on what he thinks of them. ie. people can be discriminated against for being poorly groomed, obese, or displaying hobbies that - in the employer's opinion - tell something negative about them. _Anything that can be revealed during an interview and hints about something in the employee's personality._

All of this is discrimination, sure, but a job interview is defined as being discriminating. Some forms of discrimination ought to be pointed at and fought against -- racism, sexism... Others - discrimination based on competence, but also on personality, motivation, and mere "gut feeling"... are normal. 

Discrimination against obese people, more often than not, is normal. There are cases in which it is problematic, all right. But take the example of the school which added physical classes for fat students - how is this abnormal? The hospital which didn't want employees destroying their own health in front of patients - how is this abnormal?


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## Eboue (Mar 21, 2010)

If we bully the vile fatties more, maybe they wont be such vile fatties.


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## Gnome (Mar 21, 2010)

i used to be fat, it's not that hard to lose weight. All i had to do was workout an hour everyday and not eat fast food ever.


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## uchia2000 (Mar 21, 2010)

Eboue said:


> If we bully the vile fatties more, maybe they wont be such vile fatties.



Don't people tend to eat more when depressed?


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## Eboue (Mar 21, 2010)

Point taken.


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## LouDAgreat (Mar 21, 2010)

You know guys, there may be an advantage to being obese:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il0PMU5xCpo&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## impersonal (Mar 21, 2010)

Eboue said:


> If we bully the vile fatties more, maybe they wont be such vile fatties.



Well, there's bullying which is stupid (whether it is because of obesity or anything else) and then there's not hiring someone, or even just letting a friend know when he's getting really unhealthy and in denial -- have you read the article? 


> Last fall, Lincoln University in southern Pennsylvania announced that it would weigh and measure all freshmen, and require those with a B.M.I. over 30 to enroll in a special fitness class. Fat rights advocates protested it as discrimination: If the fitness class was that important to student health, shouldn't everyone take it?



(I'd say that university is a bit too late to force people into healthiness; after all they're adult at this point; still the "fat rights advocates" could have found a better argument...)


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## jugni (Mar 21, 2010)

I do agree that getting a job is competitive, and many appearance related aspects do matter such as dressing professionally, good grooming, and in general, being social/outgoing, but there is a difference (in my opinion) when the only reason someone was denied the job because they appear to be ?fat? and do not fit into their ideal ?image.? The categories of gender and race are very different from this category, though at times they may over lap. There are some individuals who may ?appear? to be fat, but they are quite healthy. In general, it should be common goal to be ?healthy? individual, and not necessarily fit into a ?thin? image. People can be ?not thin? (different body types, also not necessarily always fat), and feel comfortable and be healthy. Those who are obese and are not healthy, I would agree that it would be in their best interest to change their lifestyle for their health, mental, and social reasons.

Beating individuals or mentally torturing someone to dislike themselves because they are fat is not a solution; rather, it is wrong and would hurt even more. Educating people about healthy life style, assisting them in making healthy choices, and motivating are better way to deal with this. Funding lunch programs of schools with healthy food rather than junk food would be good idea. Like someone said, it is just not the issue of ?the body,? as it also concerns the person?s mental image of their self.  For me, it is not an issue whether a person feels sympathy for them or not because sympathy cannot be forced, but to completely disregard their challenges would not be a good idea either.


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## Ruby Tuesday (Mar 21, 2010)

My question is, "Is it only obese people who are being discriminated against or is it just bigger people in general?" I'm not obese by any means but I am all around a lot bigger then most women. I am almost 6 feet tall and a size 12-14 however the fact that I a size 12-14 is mostly due to my height. The proportions are normal I just a around bigger. Am I going to be lumped in with the obese because I am big? I know weird question.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 21, 2010)

Ruby Tuesday said:


> My question is, "Is it only obese people who are being discriminated against or is it just bigger people in general?" I'm not obese by any means but I am all around a lot bigger then most women. I am almost 6 feet tall and a size 12-14 however the fact that I a size 12-14 is mostly due to my height. The proportions are normal I just a around bigger. Am I going to be lumped in with the obese because I am big? I know weird question.



Nah. Mu aunt is like 6'3" and her proportions are normal. She weighs like 220.


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## Gaawa-chan (Mar 21, 2010)

Ruby Tuesday said:


> My question is, "Is it only obese people who are being discriminated against or is it just bigger people in general?" I'm not obese by any means but I am all around a lot bigger then most women. I am almost 6 feet tall and a size 12-14 however the fact that I a size 12-14 is mostly due to my height. The proportions are normal I just a around bigger. Am I going to be lumped in with the obese because I am big? I know weird question.



People only give a darn when the issue affects them.


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## Psallo a Cappella (Mar 21, 2010)

uchia2000 said:


> Don't people tend to eat more when depressed?


Not necessarily.


Ruby Tuesday said:


> My question is, "Is it only obese people who are being discriminated against or is it just bigger people in general?" I'm not obese by any means but I am all around a lot bigger then most women. I am almost 6 feet tall and a size 12-14 however the fact that I a size 12-14 is mostly due to my height. The proportions are normal I just a around bigger. Am I going to be lumped in with the obese because I am big? I know weird question.


You do not embody obesity -  BMI is a painfully generalized method of determining the category of an individual's weight (under / over -weight). One of my closest friends fits your proportions almost exactly, reaching 5' 10ish and about the same size in clothes (though she has gained weight recently due to binge drinking). I, and others, generally do not view her as obese because, like you, her proportions fit well and she has noticeable curves. Personally I would never lump you or anyone of similar structure in with the obese because the latter group will look noticeably disproportionate, and / or have weight concentrated in one place in the body. My mother is only 5' 3'' and at one point was a size twelve - she was never obese, and she has those stout, ox-like bones that scare me to hell. Though she has lost weight, her body has remained proportioned as her weight was lost, and her stance and bones are still very stout. It's simply how she is.

Summarily, no, your size is not lumped in with the grossly obese, which is what is being discussed in the article (from what I can tell).


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## Ruby Tuesday (Mar 21, 2010)

Gaawa-chan said:


> People only give a darn when the issue affects them.



That the way of the world Gaawa-chan


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 21, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Nah. Mu aunt is like 6'3" and her proportions are normal. She weighs like 220.



 Was she an Amazon? 



Ruby Tuesday said:


> My question is, "Is it only obese people who are being discriminated against or is it just bigger people in general?" I'm not obese by any means but I am all around a lot bigger then most women. I am almost 6 feet tall and a size 12-14 however the fact that I a size 12-14 is mostly due to my height. The proportions are normal I just a around bigger. Am I going to be lumped in with the obese because I am big? I know weird question.



I don't think so, girls that are just taller and all don't really get lumped in there, but a lot of men haven issue with dating them because they don't want a woman taller than them. 



uchia2000 said:


> Don't people tend to eat more when depressed?


I tend to eat less because food would require me to move more than three feet from the bed.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 21, 2010)

> Was she an Amazon?



Nope lol, my whole family is pretty tall. In fact, my cousin(the aunt I referred to's daughter)  was six foot when she was twelve, my uncle is 6'3", my mom is like 5'11", and I'm 6'1".


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## krickitat (Mar 21, 2010)

Im considered overweight and I eat less when im stressed or depressed. I will eat like one meal a day or just sit around and eat strawberries or yogurt. During my period its usual for me to hardly eat anything at all, I will skip meals like every other day.

Funny enough this behavior makes me gain more weight when i start eating again because by that time my body is in starvation mode.


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## GrimaH (Mar 21, 2010)

> For Obese People, Prejudice in Plain Sight


\

As if they weren't already.


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## Elim Rawne (Mar 21, 2010)

Ruby Tuesday said:


> I'm not obese



First step is acceptance,Ruby


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## Hand Banana (Mar 21, 2010)

Ruby Tuesday said:


> My question is, "Is it only obese people who are being discriminated against or is it just bigger people in general?" I'm not obese by any means but I am all around a lot bigger then most women. I am almost 6 feet tall and a size 12-14 however the fact that I a size 12-14 is mostly due to my height. The proportions are normal I just a around bigger. Am I going to be lumped in with the obese because I am big? I know weird question.



Lets find out. And don't lie because you would only be lying to yourself really.


----------



## aquis45 (Mar 21, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Lets find out. And don't lie because you would only be lying to yourself really.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Put that thing away, you are gonna give everybody issues. Body fat percentages would be more accurate, but that either takes another person with a tape measure or one of the electronic scales.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Lets find out. And don't lie because you would only be lying to yourself really.



I've only a 24 BMI, though most who saw me would say I am overweight.  BMI is shit.


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## AmigoOne (Mar 21, 2010)

krickitat said:


> Im considered obese, yet i bet I exercise more then the majority of you. I go out and hike several miles every weekend and take two walks a day walking my dog. Guess what I also love working out at the gym, I love the high it gives me and can stay on a eliptical machine for hours. In fact I love nothing more then to compete with some skinny thing next to me getting my rate and time higher.
> 
> My failing? Poor eating habits, I eat maybe once or twice a day and because I skip breakfast by the time I eat at 9PM im starving.
> Yes I love salads I eat a ton of fruit and am low on meats and grains. But that doesnt help when you eat a huge bowl of salad because I starved myself the rest of the day.
> ...



You are the exception, im sure they can tell when you put those healthy activities under "hobbies" on a job application.


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## krickitat (Mar 21, 2010)

LOL but despite my own state of affairs I have never really had problems with finding jobs. 
As for relationships....the guys I usually date I think most people would agree are very handsome and fit. Only because...Im extremely active and I want to date someone who likes to hike and camp and fish as much as I do so I just dont settle for anything less. 
Except for on my birthday on tuesday....Lets not talk about THAT (still washing my curtains) 

But about job interviews, you ARE being judged the minute you walk in the door. wheather its your hairstyle, your breath, your choice of clothing or your manner of speech. I have to concentrate on not speaking with a southern accent because it makes people think Im dumb. 

I would say that if someone is overweight whether its a choice or otherwise you have the MOST control over how people perceive you. Its not just about weight its about how well you take care of yourself. Are your fingers manicured and well taken care of? HAve you been to a hair stylist in the last several weeks, are your clothes fitted to your body type, is your makeup complimentary or not there at all.

more then anything to do with weight people appreciate someone who obviously takes grooming seriously. Thats why they tell you to take such great care with your appearance before going to job interviews. This woman who states she idnt get this job and felt she was being descriminated by the interviewer....well how did she appear? Was her hair combed and styled?

To me the biggest difference between overweight and obese hasnt been about numbers its about effort. An obese person to me is someone who doesnt make any effort they have just completely let it all go. They dont get their hair done, they wear clothes from the good will or ....ewww sweats, and give off this general impression of "im fat and you need to accept that"

whereas to me someone who is just overweight takes that extra bit of care of themselves. They dont want to give the impression to everyone of "im fat and I just dont care" but "I may be overweight but thats no reason to let yourself go".

Not all of us have as much conrol of our body weights as you seem to think. And for those of you who were able to make simple changes in your life and lose weight I applaud your efforts. I hope one day to be as successful as you. 

but whether your 300 lbs or 120lbs the only thing that is ever really going to matter is appearance and how well you take care of yourself. In the end we are ALL judged by this standard.

I know it sounds alot like I have changed my tune but I have had some time to think about it and I agree....fat people are being judged. But your wrong that they are being wrongly judged or that they are the only ones being unfairly judged, they are just being judged on a different criteria.

but there ARE people out there who will hire me, there ARE very gorgeous men who will sleep with me, hell even my dog likes me and that says alot. So does everyone have the same criteria? No. So dont get hung up on the small stuff.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

aquis45 said:


> Put that thing away, you are gonna give everybody issues. Body fat percentages would be more accurate, but that either takes another person with a tape measure or one of the electronic scales.





Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> I've only a 24 BMI, though most who saw me would say I am overweight.  BMI is shit.



Ah come on fellas. Don't make me have to bring out the you mad picture. Btw I'm 30 lbs overweight according to the charts. But its mostly muscles. And my jimmy takes most of the credit. And my luggage. And my hugely inflated ego.


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## krickitat (Mar 22, 2010)

Obviously weight is relative. 

I used to work at a cell phone company, had one woman call in and asked us to make a phone that would only answer to handsome people and had ways to detect if a man was well hung or not. of course this was around 1am so she was either drunk, high (likely), or crazy. 

But I found myself saying.







I want that phone.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

krickitat said:


> Obviously weight is relative.
> 
> I used to work at a cell phone company, had one woman call in and asked us to make a phone that would only answer to handsome people and had ways to detect if a man was well hung or not. of course this was around 1am so she was either drunk, high (likely), or crazy.
> 
> ...



Gimme yo numba baby


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## krickitat (Mar 22, 2010)

I dont think it increases the magic of phone sex.
Otherwise...alaska is prolly a long way from where your at. 

But maybe you just wanted to prove a...point


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## Mael (Mar 22, 2010)

Sorry my sympathy towards the obese is next to none.  Just walking around at a Wal-Mart in Oklahoma near Fort Sill taught me not to pity them.

Walk around instead of a damn Rascal Scooter people.  Honestly...I won't accept it.


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## krickitat (Mar 22, 2010)

havent you ever had a long long loooong day and your heels are killing you but you still need to shop for dinner...and man those rascals at the front entrance look soooooooo enticing.


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## LouDAgreat (Mar 22, 2010)

Mael said:


> Sorry my sympathy towards the obese is next to none.  Just walking around at a Wal-Mart in Oklahoma near Fort Sill taught me not to pity them.
> 
> Walk around instead of a damn Rascal Scooter people.  Honestly...I won't accept it.



Be careful Maelly:


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdJvfhEDIxc[/YOUTUBE]




They'll crush you.


----------



## Mael (Mar 22, 2010)

LouDAgreat said:


> Be careful Maelly:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Or I could just outrun them...which requires oh so little effort.

I call bullshit on obese "prejudice."  1-2% of you didn't make yourselves that way.


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## Gooba (Mar 22, 2010)

Rule 1: Cardio


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 22, 2010)

Gooba said:


> Rule 1: Cardio


I am happy for us to have over weight people, the zombies will get them first.


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## Mael (Mar 22, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I am happy for us to have over weight people, the zombies will get them first.



The zombies will then actually be full, and leave the rest of us alone for a while so we have time to devise a clever scheme to rid ourselves of the plague of undeath.


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## The Space Cowboy (Mar 22, 2010)

Fact:  All really obese people are actually members of Cthulhu's cult.  He's going to need some high carb, high fat food when he arises from Rlyeh


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## horsdhaleine (Mar 22, 2010)

dummy plug said:


> the obese are still in the minority



I agree.


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## impersonal (Mar 22, 2010)

horsdhaleine said:


> I agree.


I think the cumulated weight of all obese americans constitutes a majority, compared to the cumulated weight of all healthy americans.

...Edit: actually, about 60% of the American population is overweight, including ~25% obese. I knew it was high, but_ what the fuck_.


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## horsdhaleine (Mar 22, 2010)

No shit, Thom? 

Why US in particular? Why not Canada, Netherlands, Norway, Finland, etc...? Aren't they equally affluent as well (as nations)? How come I don't see the same complaint from other countries? Are Americans bigger in bodily proportions compared to that of other countries or just whinier?


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## impersonal (Mar 22, 2010)

horsdhaleine said:


> No shit, Thom?
> 
> Why US in particular? Why not Canada, Netherlands, Norway, Finland, etc...? Aren't they equally affluent as well (as nations)? How come I don't see the same complaint from other countries? Are Americans bigger in bodily proportions compared to that of other countries or just whinier?



They're much bigger. I just had no idea it was this bad.


I didn't know Luxembourg and Hungary had it so bad, too... I also knew the UK was pretty bad, but I thought it was still better than that. Anyway, the USA's still well ahead.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Mar 22, 2010)

Well, their food has changed a lot in proportion as well.


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## DisgustingIdiot (Mar 22, 2010)

In fairness the 2002 burger looks awesome.


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## Gooba (Mar 22, 2010)

USA has it much worse because of all the subsidies to the meat and corn industry, which produces the most unhealthy food and high-fructose corn syrup.


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## Fuzzly (Mar 22, 2010)

And our increasingly sedentary lifestyle and poor health care system. Also a horrible education system that teaches our kids how to take tests but nothing about nutrition or exercise, even removing gym classes and recess times, while selling kids cupcakes, candies, chips, and sodas in almost unlimited amounts during school hours.

Hell, my school had like only 300 students but 7 pop machines! Needed? No. Profitable? Fuck yeah.


----------



## Mael (Mar 22, 2010)

Fuzzly said:


> And our increasingly sedentary lifestyle and *poor health care system*. Also a horrible education system that teaches our kids how to take tests but nothing about nutrition or exercise, even removing gym classes and recess times, while selling kids cupcakes, candies, chips, and sodas in almost unlimited amounts during school hours.
> 
> Hell, my school had like only 300 students but 7 pop machines! Needed? No. Profitable? Fuck yeah.



HANDS OFF MAH HELTHCAR, EVIL GUVMENT!  I'D RATHER BE FAT THAN A SOSHULIST!


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 22, 2010)

Excellent.  Canada seems to be bucking the trend of the anglo-fatness and is more in line with the more populated continental Euro area.  And it can't be the French part skewing the numbers since they made poutine.

Still a world away from the AZNs.


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## Toby (Mar 22, 2010)

horsdhaleine said:


> No shit, Thom?
> 
> Why US in particular? Why not Canada, Netherlands, Norway, Finland, etc...? Aren't they equally affluent as well (as nations)? How come I don't see the same complaint from other countries? Are Americans bigger in bodily proportions compared to that of other countries or just whinier?



There is a big difference between the traditional diets of those countries as well as the development of food markets there.

Norway and Scandinavian + northern European societies in general have a history of composing a diet of fish. Japan of course has historically been dependent on the sea for food. The effects this has on a population's health is actually quite tremendous since it determines which types of fat are more likely to fit in with the diet. 

So wealth is not the indicator here, though it is much easier to buy healthy food in northern Europe than in North America. It really is what you eat and what exercise you get. Add to the fact that Scandinavian societies have proper publicly funded sporting clubs and there's a different story to be told altogether. Also, consider the sports we play. We like soccer more than rugby, which is not good for big muscly chaps, so we tend to have more slim kids who played sports of that sort. Americans and Canadians play hockey and American football. Why would they raise people and think that slimness is a sporty trait? They want and need bigger athletes for these sports, so this becomes a norm at an earlier age for kids. 

Unfortunately basketball isn't popular enough in North America. I bet you this would be a whole different thing if they trained slim athletes too. The diet would change too. I can still remember when I was younger and basketball was more popular. There were a lot more slim kids around.


----------



## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Dionysus said:


> Excellent.  Canada seems to be bucking the trend of the anglo-fatness and is more in line with the more populated continental Euro area.  And it can't be the French part skewing the numbers since they made poutine.
> 
> Still a world away from the AZNs.



Really surprised Mexico made it that high.


----------



## Black Wraith (Mar 22, 2010)

impersonal said:


> They're much bigger. I just had no idea it was this bad.
> 
> 
> I didn't know Luxembourg and Hungary had it so bad, too... I also knew the UK was pretty bad, but I thought it was still better than that. Anyway, the USA's still well ahead.



Shit we're so close to the top.

Just look at the difference between the Japs and the Americans. It's fucking huge!


----------



## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

It's based off of bullshit, until I see what they count as "overweight". I've lived all up and down the East coast and there aren't that many fat people in the US.


----------



## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> It's based off of bullshit, until I see what they count as "overweight". I've lived all up and down the East coast and there aren't that many fat people in the US.



Always so negative. Its based off BMI.


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## Dionysus (Mar 22, 2010)

Toby said:


> So wealth is not the indicator here, though it is much easier to buy healthy food in northern Europe than in North America


No way.  You might say it's cheaper to buy fatty crud than fruits, vegetables, lean meat and other healthy foods, but it's remarkably simple to eat healthily in all areas of North American that I've been to.  On the same budget, I would say it's easier than in Europe.  (This is, again my experience.  It's also corroborated by the Scandinavians I've met, who remark on the cheapness of the fruits and veg in Canada.  Same can be said of the Scandinavian reaction to food prices in South Africa.)  I believe the difference comes from the price of crud relative to healthy food.

(Just look at the numbers of Canada on that graph.  That's sheer willpower to fight the US's influence.)



Toby said:


> Why would they raise people and think that slimness is a sporty trait? They want and need bigger athletes for these sports, so this becomes a norm at an earlier age for kids.


Must be all the fat Finns and Swedes playing hockey.


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## Gnome (Mar 22, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Always so negative. Its based off BMI.



The BMI is as bullshit as it gets.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Always so negative. Its based off BMI.



Exactly. BMI = bullshit.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Gnome on Fire said:


> The BMI is as bullshit as it gets.





Echo% said:


> Exactly. BMI = bullshit.



Thats not my problem.


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## The Space Cowboy (Mar 22, 2010)

Prejudice:  an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

We know, and have reasoned out that fat people will have health problems.   It is a reasonable conclusion.  Therefore it is not prejudice


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Thats not my problem.



So productive. Why did you even post? Everyone knows BMI is bullshit. Since BMI is bullshit every poll based off of it is also, guess what?


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## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> So productive. Why did you even post? Everyone knows BMI is bullshit. Since BMI is bullshit every poll based off of it is also, guess what?



It's not my problem because I'm not in charge of what they use to determine Obesity. So again stop being a bitch about it. I answered your question. If you have a problem with it write to the people who determines obesity and explain to them how faulty their system is and how you have a better solution. Of course if you had any common sense, instead of attacking my post. You would of actually just done that.


----------



## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

Actually I never attacked your post. I said BMI was bullshit, claimed the polls were bullshit, and you got defensive and said not to blame you. Piss off


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## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> *Actually I never attacked your post.* I said BMI was bullshit, claimed the polls were bullshit, and you got defensive and said not to blame you. Piss off





Echo% said:


> *So productive. Why did you even post?* Everyone knows BMI is bullshit. Since BMI is bullshit every poll based off of it is also, guess what?



I mean seriously, why do you contradict yourself all the time? Isn't this like the second time I caught you doing this? The religious thread...remember that?


----------



## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

If asking you why you post is attacking it, then I'm like a fucking forum spartan.

Now, do you in fact have something to add to the discussion besides attempting conflict?


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## BAD BD (Mar 22, 2010)

BMI is only bullshit when the person has a muscular build. Unless half of the US regularly competes in strongman competitions then the BMI is a fairly  useful comparison.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> If asking you why you post is attacking it, then I'm like a fucking forum spartan.
> 
> Now, do you in fact have something to add to the discussion besides attempting conflict?



I already added to this conversation before I got into this useless argument with you. In my post I attempted to provide a solution. Not moan and grope like you did.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

BAD BD said:


> BMI is only bullshit when the person has a muscular build. Unless half of the US regularly competes in strongman competitions then the BMI is a fairly  useful comparison.



BMI is complete bullshit on every level, not just muscular builds. weight =/= healthiness. My BMI says I'm the perfect weight for my height, but I'm skinny as all hell and definitely need to gain some pounds. It also says my aunt who is 6'3 and 220 pounds is overweight, when she's not only just healthy but in better condition than a lot of woman her age(which is 42). 

That's one example. There are hundreds. There's even a video I've seen from somewhere... I can't quite recall where, but it claims that a man who looks a little overweight is unhealthy, but the guy jogs on a treadmill every day, works out, it's just total bullshit, the entire system.

EDIT: Hand Banana stfu, will you? I was done with our "argument" when I said BMI was bullshit, ever since then all I've been doing is fucking reciprocating and reciprocating. I'm beating a dead horse.


----------



## Toby (Mar 22, 2010)

Dionysus said:


> No way.  You might say it's cheaper to buy fatty crud than fruits, vegetables, lean meat and other healthy foods, but it's remarkably simple to eat healthily in all areas of North American that I've been to.  On the same budget, I would say it's easier than in Europe.  (This is, again my experience.  It's also corroborated by the Scandinavians I've met, who remark on the cheapness of the fruits and veg in Canada.  Same can be said of the Scandinavian reaction to food prices in South Africa.)  I believe the difference comes from the price of crud relative to healthy food.
> 
> (Just look at the numbers of Canada on that graph.  That's sheer willpower to fight the US's influence.)



It's not that easy to find healthy food in North America. The price might at times be better, but the quality and availability of it in Europe I'd say gives us the upper hand. I want to give up every time I go into a supermarket and look for proper healthy foods in the US and Canada. I have to go for Whole Foods or something like that.

Then there's the difference in the ratio of junk food to other food services. I'm aware of the differences between getting a license to sell food in North America and those of trying to do the same in Europe. When you go to northern Europe it gets even harder. You will be shut down for good if you don't do a proper job in Scandinavia. Here in north America you get second, third, fourth, fifth etc. chances. Policies are different, and so are the standards.



Dionysus said:


> Must be all the fat Finns and Swedes playing hockey.



It's not that popular over there, actually.


----------



## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

In case you were wondering where I get my _ridiculous_ ideas from.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> BMI is complete bullshit on every level, not just muscular builds. weight =/= healthiness. My BMI says I'm the perfect weight for my height, but I'm skinny as all hell and definitely need to gain some pounds. It also says my aunt who is 6'3 and 220 pounds is overweight, when she's not only just healthy but in better condition than a lot of woman her age(which is 42).



Apparently she is not healthy if people her age at 42 that is inline with the chart. And if you meet the BMI, you're also ok. Don't see why you need to gain weight unless its for a sport.



> That's one example. There are hundreds. There's even a video I've seen from somewhere... I can't quite recall where, but it claims that a man who looks a little overweight is unhealthy, but the guy jogs on a treadmill every day, works out, it's just total bullshit, the entire system.



Then if you seen it somewhere it must be true 



> EDIT: Hand Banana stfu, will you? I was done with our "argument" when I said BMI was bullshit, ever since then all I've been doing is fucking reciprocating and reciprocating. I'm beating a dead horse.



I used to beat a dead horse, but P.E.T.A. came around and had to be a bitch about it. he was already dead I mean come on. Was he gonna come back from death and reuse his body?


----------



## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

> Apparently she is not healthy if people her age at 42 that is inline with the chart. And if you meet the BMI, you're also ok. Don't see why you need to gain weight unless its for a sport.


Apparently she's not healthy because she is in better physical condition than other people her age. Why didn't I think of that?


----------



## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Apparently she's not healthy because she is in better physical condition than other people her age. Why didn't I think of that?



If thats the case whats the consensus on that? Can you provide some kind of statistic comparing your Aunt is in better condition then a majority of people her age? Because if you can't...and no offense but you're talking out your ass.


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## Dionysus (Mar 22, 2010)

Toby said:


> It's not that easy to find healthy food in North America. The price might at times be better, but the quality and availability of it in Europe I'd say gives us the upper hand. I want to give up every time I go into a supermarket and look for proper healthy foods in the US and Canada. I have to go for Whole Foods or something like that.


Where are you looking for food, man?  I can go to any grocery store and find tonnes of fresh vegetables, fruits, meats.  Are you just using restaurants as examples?  I frown when I look at the shops in Europe.  Maybe the Mediterranean is different.

I _know_ Norway's shipped produce can't be as fresh.  Winter might mean poorer selection (though, thanks to the subsidized  and warmer US we can get year-round strawberries and the like), but Ontario produces some of the best fruit around.  I take it you've never had the peaches?

If you want fresh and local, go by  to know what's available at the moment.



Toby said:


> It's not that popular over there, actually.


My point actually being that hockey produces lots of lean, if more muscular, people.  Having fat isn't a plus like it is in football.  (I'm using local vernacular. )  The only issue having it as a youthful obsession, instead of soccer, would be the head injuries.


----------



## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Dionysus said:


> Where are you looking for food, man?  I can go to any grocery store and find tonnes of fresh vegetables, fruits, meats.  Are you just using restaurants as examples?



Well to be honest there are more restaurant than grocery stores. In America. But I see what you're saying.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

Hand Banana I don't need to provide you with shit, I already gave you a link which you so conveniently ignored. Though my Aunt can dunk a basketball hoop and run faster AND longer than I can.


----------



## vivEnergy (Mar 22, 2010)

BMI is as much bull**** as RDA in the sense that is its an empirical measure based on what is the median weight of healthy people.

If your idea of being healthy is getting diabetes at 10 and dying at 30 of a heart attack  then so be it.


----------



## impersonal (Mar 22, 2010)

Toby said:


> There is a big difference between the traditional diets of those countries as well as the development of food markets there.
> 
> Norway and Scandinavian + northern European societies in general have a history of composing a diet of fish. Japan of course has historically been dependent on the sea for food. The effects this has on a population's health is actually quite tremendous since it determines which types of fat are more likely to fit in with the diet.
> 
> ...



Yet the greeks, praised for their salads, are a local exception for their sheer enormous amount of fat... And we frenchmen, despite our traditionnally meaty and fat diet (cheese, steaks, lots of sauce...) not to mention the wine, are among the thinnest...

I really think many other cultural things count. When I was in the US, what most shocked me was that people would eat at any time. Hungry? Grab a sandwich. In France, I've always had 2 or 3 meals a day, sometimes with a little extra at 4pm. In a US family, I've once seen a day with 5 meals -- 10 am, 1pm, 4pm, 8pm, 11pm. Small meals all right, but still...

As for the foot offer, I'm not sure whether it follows or precedes obesity. It's harder to eat healthily in the UK compared to France; most of the supermarkets' areas are filled with absolutely disgusting sugary-fatty crap. But is it this offer that created obesity, or is the offer here because all the obese people demand it?

More sophisticated cultural things can influence how people eat. For example, some of my friends won't ever cut the food budget even when they're really poor; they consider that eating properly is, as a pleasure or as a health issue, too essential to be even regarded. Clothes, nights out and other such expenses are to be reduced first.

Traditional food is held in very high regard, and its finesse is appreciated; whereas I've seen American restaurants get praised for serving a pound of cheese-covered meat, whereas it'd just be seen as very trashy/disgusting in France...


----------



## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Hand Banana I don't need to provide you with shit, I already gave you a link which you so conveniently ignored. Though my Aunt can dunk a basketball hoop and run faster AND longer than I can.



That link doesn't validate anything. I can easily provide you with a link that says BMI is ok. But I think you mad so Imma finish with you here.

But again I seriously don't care about BMI because I'm 30lbs over my BMI. But its mostly muscles.


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 22, 2010)

impersonal said:


> I really think many other cultural things count. When I was in the US, what most shocked me was that people would eat at any time. Hungry? Grab a sandwich. In France, I've always had 2 or 3 meals a day, sometimes with a little extra at 4pm. In a US family, I've once seen a day with 5 meals -- 10 am, 1pm, 4pm, 8pm, 11pm. Small meals all right, but still...


3 meals is the common US practice.  5 meals, if properly balanced, would actually be healthier (though, 11 pm seems late for a big meal if just before bed), but time doesn't really allow for it for most.


----------



## impersonal (Mar 22, 2010)

Dionysus said:


> 3 meals is the common US practice.  5 meals, if properly balanced, would actually be healthier (though, 11 pm seems late for a big meal if just before bed), but time doesn't really allow for it for most.



5 meals? ... In some African countries, the tradition is one meal a day. And I'm not talking about starving people here, but thin girls and muscular guys, both looking healthy. The issue, imho, is not the number of meals, it's that there is no fixed tradition; and there is readily available disgusting food everywhere. It makes people more vulnerable; they can eat at any time of day, without any social stigma; they can pretend it's the scientifically healthy thing to do; they can eat alone like alcoholics drink alone...

I'm not saying that other countries are perfect, for example there's 10% of obese people in France and I think that's enormous. But maybe the social organization itself is the problem here. Just listen to these fat rights nuts -- they're a symptom of that.


----------



## Dionysus (Mar 22, 2010)

impersonal said:


> 5 meals? ... In some African countries, the tradition is one meal a day. And I'm not talking about starving people here, but thin girls and muscular guys, both looking healthy. The issue, imho, is not the number of meals, it's that there is no fixed tradition; and there is readily available disgusting food everywhere. It makes people more vulnerable; they can eat at any time of day, without any social stigma; they can pretend it's the scientifically healthy thing to do; they can eat alone like alcoholics drink alone...
> 
> I'm not saying that other countries are perfect, for example there's 10% of obese people in France and I think that's enormous. But maybe the social organization itself is the problem here. Just listen to these fat rights nuts -- they're a symptom of that.


Well, as far as my American family is concerned, there is a tradition and it's 3 meals.  They are obese, but's because they eat enormous amounts of food.

More meals is likely more healthy since is gives your body a more constant energy source as opposed to fewer meals.  Better conditioning for the metabolism.

I believe your body will more readily store fat if you only eat once per day.  If you don't eat when hungry, your body conditions itself by slowing its metabolism and creates more fat to convert to energy during these periods.  (Assuming the same energy intake for one meal or n meals.)

If you eat so much that you never feel hungry for the rest of the day... I would say a potbelly is likely too.

At least, this seems like the logical outcome to me.  Feel free to correct me if this is wrong.


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## Black Wraith (Mar 22, 2010)

How to combat obesity. The American way:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRoSJ1y1FSY[/YOUTUBE]


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Exactly. BMI = bullshit.



When 30% fits obese you have a social issue with too many people being far too overweight. And suffering coresponding health risks.  
Ofcourse you'll have some exceptions to the rule...


The panel based these definitions on evidence that health risks increase steeply in individuals with a BMI of 25+. 


There goes your whole ""fat/obese is not related to health"" ""BMI is bullshit"" 

BMI is a crude measure thats all.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

I never said being fat/obese was unrelated to your health. And BMI _is_ bullshit. First hand account, personal experience, and using my own senses is more reliable than an article. Also exceptions to a rule assumes that the rule is _usually_ right, when it's just outright fucked in this case.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> I never said being fat/obese was unrelated to your health. And BMI _is_ bullshit. First hand account, personal experience, and using my own senses is more reliable than an article. Also exceptions to a rule assumes that the rule is _usually_ right, when it's just outright fucked in this case.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> I never said being fat/obese was unrelated to your health. And BMI _is_ bullshit. First hand account, personal experience, and using my own senses is more reliable than an article. Also exceptions to a rule assumes that the rule is _usually_ right, when it's just outright fucked in this case.



studies dealing with thousands of people>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your opinion formed about single cases....



That it is a crude measure with many exceptions due to not taking into account body type and muscle/fat percentages does not mean you cannot use it as a crude rule of thumb. You just need to acknowledge its not perfect.  


The fact that BMI 30+ heavily correlates with negative effects on health disproves your point. (that BMI is utter bullshit and says nothing about weight related health)


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Mar 22, 2010)

One thing does concern me about all the rhetoric I've been hearing lately about an "obesity epidemic".  We already have far too many teens (mostly girls, but an increasing number of boys as well) suffering from eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia because society constantly tells them that you have to be stick-thin to be attractive.  Talking endlessly about an "obesity epidemic", and particularly a "childhood obesity epidemic" seems like it would make this issue even worse, and thus do more harm than good.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

Ok, seriously? Go walk to a fucking grocery store. Or a school. There's 8/10 people who look healthy sized, if maybe slightly above or below "par". These "obese" people that are taking over America? Where the fuck are they? Go find random ass fucking pictures of people in crowds. Go watch a goddamned movie. Look at the crowd. America isn't as fat as it's made out to be, unless these fatties are invisible or congregating underneath the fucking Earth's crust.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 22, 2010)

Akatsuki210 said:


> One thing does concern me about all the rhetoric I've been hearing lately about an "obesity epidemic".  We already have far too many teens (mostly girls, but an increasing number of boys as well) suffering from eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia because society constantly tells them that you have to be stick-thin to be attractive.  Talking endlessly about an "obesity epidemic", and particularly a "childhood obesity epidemic" seems like it would make this issue even worse, and thus do more harm than good.





so we have like 2% of the population with an eating disorder.

while 30% stands obese with their respective negative effects on their health. 

do the math. 


Also there is a call for a healthy weight. And a healthy lifestyle. Exercize, eat more fruits and vegetables etc. Not a call for underweight as it leads to reduced health as well. 




If you want to make things better..adress the (sub)culture where the unhealthy stick figure is promoted directly. Do not undermine other efforts to greatly improve public health out of fear a small part of society might take it the wrong way.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Ok, seriously? Go walk to a fucking grocery store. Or a school. There's 8/10 people who look healthy sized, if maybe slightly above or below "par". These "obese" people that are taking over America? Where the fuck are they? Go find random ass fucking pictures of people in crowds. Go watch a goddamned movie. Look at the crowd. America isn't as fat as it's made out to be, unless these fatties are invisible or congregating underneath the fucking Earth's crust.



even by your experience that means 2/10 people are not healthy sized. 

Then add to this the fact, obese people go out/move about less and you get the 30% the studies show. 



And is it so hard to understand that personal experience can be skewed? seeing your social circles etc.? 

Scientific studies looking at thousands of random chosen individuals>>>>>>>>> your personal experience.


But whatever. Be in denial.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

> even by your experience that means 2/10 people are not healthy sized.



Whoopity shit. That's their issue. That's not a fucking epidemic.


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## Black Wraith (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Ok, seriously? Go walk to a fucking grocery store. Or a school. There's 8/10 people who look healthy sized, if maybe slightly above or below "par". These "obese" people that are taking over America? Where the fuck are they? Go find random ass fucking pictures of people in crowds. Go watch a goddamned movie. Look at the crowd. America isn't as fat as it's made out to be, unless these fatties are invisible or congregating underneath the fucking Earth's crust.



The true American.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

> The true American.



Prejudice! Yay!


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## Black Wraith (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Prejudice! Yay!



Not prejudice. Just taking the piss out of an idiot.


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## Elim Rawne (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Ok, seriously? Go walk to* a fucking grocery store*. Or a school. There's 8/10 people who look healthy sized, if maybe slightly above or below "par". These "obese" people that are taking over America? Where the fuck are they? Go find random ass fucking pictures of people in crowds. Go watch a goddamned movie. Look at the crowd. America isn't as fat as it's made out to be, unless these fatties are invisible or congregating underneath the fucking Earth's crust.



What makes you think obese people eat fruits?
Cheer up,fatty


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## Ech?ux (Mar 22, 2010)

Black Wraith: I'm glad you're taking my piss out. Is that an English expression? Because it sounds pretty fucking gay from the US.

Also Diceman! Learn to read the whole conversation or gtfo the internet. I'm 6'1" and don't weigh more than 150.


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## Elim Rawne (Mar 22, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Black Wraith: I'm glad you're taking my piss out. Is that an English expression? Because it sounds pretty fucking gay from the US.
> 
> Also Diceman! Learn to read the whole conversation or gtfo the internet. I'm 6'1" and don't weigh more than 150.



Yes,yes and I'm 6'5 and captain of the football team
And this noob's telling me to get off the interntes


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## Psallo a Cappella (Mar 22, 2010)

impersonal said:


> I think the cumulated weight of all obese americans constitutes a majority, compared to the cumulated weight of all healthy americans.
> 
> ...Edit: actually, about 60% of the American population is overweight, including ~25% obese. I knew it was high, but_ what the fuck_.


I'm still going to say I do not, and never will, agree with with the measure for "overweight". Half the time they do not take into account frame size, which, from small frame to large frame, has a different of 20 pounds within the same inch of height. BMI is used for determining healthy weights and yet doesn't take the factor of frame into account, which to me is absolutely ridiculous. Truly obese people are not difficult to spot.



Fuzzly said:


> And our increasingly sedentary lifestyle and poor health care system. Also a horrible education system that teaches our kids how to take tests but nothing about nutrition or exercise, even removing gym classes and recess times, while selling kids cupcakes, candies, chips, and sodas in almost unlimited amounts during school hours.


I definitely agree that there have been horrible changes, most notably in the educational system [K - 12]. Children I've worked with in tutoring are fidgety, in terrible moods, unable to focus, and, having been through the system myself and currently watching my younger sibling deal with it, there are two serious issues I see: One, recess and gym class being taken away or shortened to almost nothing (especially putting recess after lunch - that's idiotic), and two, the fact that at least where I live, lunch times are either too early that children are hungry all afternoon, which definitely leads to irritability (in myself as well), or they eat so late that they purge upon lunch, usually upon fatty foods sold by the school because they aren't even allowed to eat snacks from home in class. I was a mess for a long time because they forbade me to eat in class - and I brought foods like apples and granola. I was PUT IN DETENTION for that so many times, and it forced me to gorge at lunch because I was starving and shaky by the time I was "designated" to eat. Children are forced to purge, which is a serious problem that leads to weight gain and eating disorders, especially in high school when students become self-conscious of looks and eating habits around others.



Toby said:


> It's not that easy to find healthy food in North America. The price might at times be better, but the quality and availability of it in Europe I'd say gives us the upper hand. I want to give up every time I go into a supermarket and look for proper healthy foods in the US and Canada. I have to go for Whole Foods or something like that.


I completely agree - and Whole Foods is too expensive a place to obtain all your staples. This is coming from a family that is upper-middle-class.



Dionysus said:


> 3 meals is the common US practice. 5 meals, if properly balanced, would actually be healthier (though, 11 pm seems late for a big meal if just before bed), but time doesn't really allow for it for most.


I agree with this - the problem is, however, those 5 meals are in too large of proportions. Eleven at night is generally a horrible idea and time for a meal because most people are going to bed shortly thereafter, which means the fat, good or bad, has no chance of being burnt off and will settle. Drinking before bed will cause weight gain as well. I

*Spoiler*: _Unrelated rant about lifestyle that is skippable due to personal opinion_ 



'm definitely one of the people who eats every few hours because my body tells me to do so. I can't stand huge meals (barring holidays), so all day I'm having granola and bananas and whatever I stuff in my purse before leaving so early in the morning. It's really hard to keep up - it's a lifestyle, and I do believe people have a lack of will-power when it comes to that. Don't get me wrong, I grab not-so-healthy snacks sometimes, I drink more caffeine than I should, and I love eating out. My favorite foods are breads and pasta and if I could, I would live off that alone. But I know how shitty I will feel if I stuff myself or eat sugar all day long - my mood is indicative of that. People don't do what I do, in some respect, because it's difficult to keep up with (this is excluding the issue of money - that's a rant for a different time). Rich suburbian bitches that I am around every day, on the whole, eat like crap. On the extreme, they are picking at salads with nothing but lettuce leaves and throw more than half of it away - an act not only wasteful but indicative of the lack of knowledge of portion control. The people that have the means to have a good diet do not choose do and thus do not set a good example for others. People eat when it is most convenient, and what is most convenient and forget to listen what bodies are asking for. 





Akatsuki210 said:


> One thing does concern me about all the rhetoric I've been hearing lately about an "obesity epidemic". We already have far too many teens (mostly girls, but an increasing number of boys as well) suffering from eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia because society constantly tells them that you have to be stick-thin to be attractive. Talking endlessly about an "obesity epidemic", and particularly a "childhood obesity epidemic" seems like it would make this issue even worse, and thus do more harm than good.


There's a frightening flipside to this - I can count so many girls that were thin and were driven to eat more because everyone has such a "free" view on being larger than they need to be, then felt disgusted and vomited. That sparked an eating disorder, too. All in all, we approach weight in a horrible way in general and the backlash from the obesity epidemic is causing new problems.


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## krickitat (Mar 23, 2010)

I eat fruits... in fact I had some california rolls and strawberries for dinner. 

not strawberries and cream or anything weird. just strawberries. 
Strawberries have been buy 1 get 1 free at the local supermarket and I have been buying a shitload of them. looooooove strawberries and I have been eating them with every meal. 
mmmmm strawberries.

That aside there was something I would like to address. 
People were discussing european stores vs. american. 
I wouldnt know the difference in that, I have shopped at scandanavian stores here in the US and the foods are different names and labels but it still seems to be alot of the same high fat high sugar stuff you find in the US.

But you know i have read some studies in the difference between american and french eating habits and its our perception of food that is the real difference.

Americans eat larger portions yes, but they also dont THINK about their food. Food is just something that fills you up and while you eat something that you think tastes good you dont truly take time to appreciate its flavor. For americans food is not measured in bites. We dont take a bite, put our forkdown and then chew. We eat food like its a race. so on that point most americans dont realize when they have actually become full. I found portion control was alot easier when I would take a bite, then set down the fork and seriously chew my food. after half of my meal I found that I was full and couldnt eat any more. 

another thing that leads to poor portion control is sodas or anything other then water during a meal. liquids dont 'fill you up' they actually trick your body into eating more and stop that full feeling. thats why they seriously reccomend to dieters that you not drink anything while eating and instead have a drink after your meal. 

also for alot of countries meal times are not considred work times. alot of stores wont be open in times designated as meal or family time. Whereas for a majority of americans there is no consideration for this at all. Alot of americans are overworked. this leads to people working hrough lunches or breaks, well past dinner time making it hard to have a set three meals at certain times which is the most healthy for you. whether its three meals or five having them be about the same portion at the same time of day is whats important. 

There is also the factor that many americans eat their largest meal in the evening. Foods traditionally eaten for dinner should be switched around and eaten for breakfast or lunch. By dinner time your body doesnt need pasta carbs to burn throughout the day so if your eating pasta at night and then go to bed it does you no good at all. So this time is the best time to have things like fruit, yogurt or a light salad. thinks like ruffage your body actually has to work to digest so they are best to eat at night. 


so in effect the american obesity problem is a mental problem more the anything. Until the majority of people change the way they look at food were always going to be at the top of that scale.


Me I have one main rule, I dont buy it if I have seen it in a commercial. fast food is easy since we only have one on my island and I hate mcdonals anyways. but things like shells and cheese or hamburger helper are out. Instead I buy macaroni, hamburger and make my own cheese sauce or gravy sauce. Too many people in american will buy a substitute for something they can make themselves. 

I always get a kick when I make chicken soup and offer it to friends or co-workers and they ask me "where did you buy this?" 
Well I got the chicken at the butcher, I got the celery and onions and carrots at the farmers market..."

People act like "homemade" is this secret recepie they only pass down in expensive cook books and each one takes hours to make.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 23, 2010)

krickitat said:


> I eat fruits... in fact I had some california rolls and strawberries for dinner.
> 
> not strawberries and cream or anything weird. just strawberries.
> Strawberries have been buy 1 get 1 free at the local supermarket and I have been buying a shitload of them. looooooove strawberries and I have been eating them with every meal.
> ...



*Wall of text enters the battlefield*​

*Vegeta...what does the scouter say about Wall of text's power level?*

*Nappa!!! its over 9000!*

*What 9000?1!!1!!11!11eleventy!11one!1!!1*


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## Nodonn (Mar 23, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> *Wall of text enters the battlefield*​
> 
> *Vegeta...what does the scouter say about Wall of text's power level?*
> 
> ...



That only works when it's an actual wall of text.


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## The Space Cowboy (Mar 23, 2010)

New Idea:  Eat because you like the taste of food, not the feeling of fullness.  Drink because you love the taste of soda, wine, and beer, not the feeling of being drunk or strung out on caffeine.  Love because you like the person, not the feeling of being in love.

Seems to me the root of obesity is seeking a feeling, rather than the object of the feeling.


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## Havoc (Mar 23, 2010)

Fat people are the grossness.


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## Xyloxi (Mar 23, 2010)

Black Wraith said:


> Shit we're so close to the top.
> 
> Just look at the difference between the Japs and the Americans. It's fucking huge!



I'd guess we'd be a bit lower down if it was just England on there, as opposed to Scotland making us look bad/worse.


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## krickitat (Mar 23, 2010)

FINISH HIM!
WALL OF TEXT WINS AGAIN! 


Did you totally just do a TL;DR on me? Not cool. You sir are a dirty scanner. you heard me....I said it.


On the whole descrimination thing. I actually as a massage therapist descriminate AGAINST skinny people. When I see some really thin person come in for some two hour massage it makes me wanna cry. I would much rather work on an obese person honestly, they have something i can work with. With skinny people it feels like i am grinding my arms on their bones. Its gross. Im finished and bored with them thirty minutes into the massage and have to drag it out to however long they paid for. 
hate it, its almost as bad as massaging kids. 
Kids are tight little suckers. All boney and wirey and they squirm. Skinny people too...squirming. 

give me some nice juicy chick with a little chunk on her...ahh those are my favorites. 
when I was into girls (grew out of it) I used to go for the ones who were a little heavy, ahhhh so sweet smelled so good and they were just sooooo pleasently squishy.


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## impersonal (Mar 23, 2010)

Psallo a Cappella said:


> I'm still going to say I do not, and never will, agree with with the measure for "overweight". Half the time they do not take into account frame size, which, from small frame to large frame, has a different of 20 pounds within the same inch of height. BMI is used for determining healthy weights and yet doesn't take the factor of frame into account, which to me is absolutely ridiculous. Truly obese people are not difficult to spot.


Well either frame size has enormously increased in recent years, or americans got fat. 

I mean: sure, in individual cases, BMI isn't a very accurate measure. But on a national scale, large frames and small frames compensate and so BMI is an accurate measure of which nations are fat and which aren't.



Psallo a Cappella said:


> There's a frightening flipside to this - I can count so many girls that were thin and were driven to eat more because everyone has such a "free" view on being larger than they need to be, then felt disgusted and vomited. That sparked an eating disorder, too. All in all, we approach weight in a horrible way in general and the backlash from the obesity epidemic is causing new problems.


Sometimes people with retarded lifestyles bother beautiful girls because they _assume_ they must be anorexic -- even when they very obviously are just healthily thin.



			
				krickitat said:
			
		

> I wouldnt know the difference in that, I have shopped at scandanavian stores here in the US and the foods are different names and labels but it still seems to be alot of the same high fat high sugar stuff you find in the US.


Perhaps american pseudo-scandinavian stores sell the disgusting sugary stuff. At any rate I doubt they've got the fruits/vegetables sections.



			
				krickitat said:
			
		

> People act like "homemade" is this secret recepie they only pass down in expensive cook books and each one takes hours to make.


ha ha, yeah, maybe in France being able to cook is seen as much more classy than in the US? Anyway, I'm not really a good cook, but just cooking a good full frying pan of vegetables gives you healthy food for 3 meals if you supplement it with rice/pasta and meat/eggs/fish. It's really quite easy to eat healthily, but people are just too lazy to do the required 10 minutes of cooking a day.




			
				The Space Cowboy said:
			
		

> New Idea: Eat because you like the taste of food, not the feeling of fullness. Drink because you love the taste of soda, wine, and beer, not the feeling of being drunk or strung out on caffeine. Love because you like the person, not the feeling of being in love.
> 
> Seems to me the root of obesity is seeking a feeling, rather than the object of the feeling.


I disagree... People eat because they're hungry. Sodas create a form of addiction, and when you're used to them, you're going to want more of them (simple solution: never drink any, at all). Same goes with very fatty food.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 23, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Black Wraith: *  I'm glad* you're taking my piss out. Is that an English expression? Because it sounds pretty fucking gay from the US.



It sounds ""fucking gay"" to you....yet your * glad * at the prospect of him doing said fucking gay thing to you?? 


ok then.....



Sounds like hes coming on to you Black Wraith


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## Dionysus (Mar 23, 2010)

OK, I'm going to have to hear what people are eating if they say "Europeans have better access to healthy foods."  I can buy all the fresh produce ("organic" or no; but any claims that GMOs are harmful better be packed tight with the evidence, regardless of the irrelevance in making people fat) I need and never have to touch a single sugar-packed, sodium-laced hunk of processed food.  There is no way in the forty-two hells that Europeans can have access to better than that.

They likely have better access to (often luxury) European food goods like a million varieties of cheeses, but that doesn't translate to better access to healthy food.


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## impersonal (Mar 23, 2010)

Dionysus, the difference between French and UK supermarkets is that in the UK, you've got to walk through 200 meters of crap before you reach anything remotely edible, whereas in France 70% of the available food can/should be part of a healthy diet.

In the end, in both cases it's possible to buy healthy food. It's just that in the UK you're encouraged to buy crap and the healthy food is hidden like it's a niche market for health freaks.


			
				Dionysus said:
			
		

> They likely have better access to (often luxury) European food goods like a million varieties of cheeses, but that doesn't translate to better access to healthy food.


Because cheeses are extremely over-taxed in the US doesn't mean it's a luxury here... We probably have more choice at more affordable prices because the market for healthy food is much bigger.
But as I wrote earlier, it's unclear whether the offer creates the demand, or vice versa. Perhaps UK supermarkets just got rid of the healthy stuff and replaced it with fat and sugar _because of popular demand._


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## Rakiyo (Mar 23, 2010)

armorknight said:


> A select few can't truly help it, but most overweight and obese people end up that way because of bad lifestyle choices.
> 
> Obesity due to lifestyle choices is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with quickly, much like smoking and alcoholism.



Social Standing and Financial Problems play a huge part in ones diet. Down in poorer areas Fatty foods are made more accessible as well as cheaper then the Healthier stuff where as better off areas tend to the exact opposite putting emphasis on healthy foods and jacking up the price on the bad ones. Thus why you see more obese people in poorer city areas.



The Space Cowboy said:


> Obese is not a protected class.  It is not integral to your being.  Quite frankly obesity should be treated like smoking--with the accompanying *sanctions & stigmatization*
> 
> And for some jobs, not being obese should be considered integral to the job, much like not being a drug addict is crucial in some positions.  Don't like being turned down as an insurance risk?  Get your shit together
> 
> ...



So you're all for the out right isolation and public ridicule because they don't fit the "protected class". You share the same view that men from back in the 1900s had about women who werent a protected class back then and could be discriminated for jobs. Just because it isnt a protected class now doesnt mean it shouldnt be. The outright stigimization of any group should be morally and legally reprehensible.


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## Rakiyo (Mar 23, 2010)

Damaris said:


> My dad is massively overweight and I remember getting picked on in elementary school whenever I said my dad was a hero because he was a "fattie". It made me so angry, and I still think it's wrong that people can be discriminated against/mocked because of weight, but I never got the "fat pride" movement either. *Being obese isn't a good thing. *My dad's been losing weight over the past year because he finally started exercising. But he's still at risk and his body is all messed up. And that's without going into the pressure it puts on me and my sister to stay skinny. Everytime I gain a couple pounds I wonder if I'm going to end up like him, and the cycle starts all over.
> 
> 
> Now that I think about it, this doesn't really relate to the article, but oh well.



Survival of the fittest disagrees 

Only reason why it's frowned upon here is because of the abundance of food.


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## Black Wraith (Mar 23, 2010)

Echo% said:


> Black Wraith: I'm glad you're taking my piss out. Is that an English expression? Because it sounds pretty fucking gay from the US.



This is anther reason for calling you The True American.



Zabuzalives said:


> It sounds ""fucking gay"" to you....yet your * glad * at the prospect of him doing said fucking gay thing to you??
> 
> 
> ok then.....
> ...



The guy's just pissed off because he's most likely fat.


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## Dionysus (Mar 23, 2010)

impersonal said:


> Dionysus, the difference between French and UK supermarkets is that in the UK, you've got to walk through 200 meters of crap before you reach anything remotely edible, whereas in France 70% of the available food can/should be part of a healthy diet.
> 
> In the end, in both cases it's possible to buy healthy food. It's just that in the UK you're encouraged to buy crap and the healthy food is hidden like it's a niche market for health freaks.
> 
> ...



I've not been to France, so I can't really compare.  I've only been to London in the UK, and the selection has never been so good in the city (where life seems to want you to have fish and chips and whatever and go go go).  I can see where there might be more rows upon rows of crap in North America (and, rows upon rows of everything in some of these ridiculous giga-supermarkets), but Toby is saying he is having difficulty finding any healthy food in Toronto, which I am confused about.  It might be a similar case to London of living too close to downtown where most people are just passing by and so there is smaller demand for grocery stores and more emphasis on quick meals.

Having reams of junk food around, but still having plenty of healthy produce nearby, would suggest to me poor choices and not lack of access to alternatives.

There are tonnes of subsidized fresh fruit and vegetables from the US in addition to the large amounts of agricultural products in Canada.  Following from what I said earlier, Ontario has some of the most fertile farmlands in the world and they're put to good use.  I have no difficulty buying directly from them too.

No, cheese isn't a luxury--and, in Ontario it's subsidized and rather cheap--but it's not necessary for a healthy diet.  (I wouldn't include much in any healthy diet.)  What I did mean is that lots of the European products he might like are not so easy to find.  I make all my meals from scratch, so this is not a problem.

Edit: and, if I recall, there are lots of produce and organic food stores around Kensington market area (which is by UofT's downtown campus.  Google maps seems point out a bunch.


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## Petenshi (Mar 23, 2010)

So, the thread title is about discriminating against obese people. Here is how I see it, if your for discriminating against obese people(Since it seems many of you are saying obese people are a problem in a thread about discriminating against them) then why not go a step further. Lets discriminate everybody for life choices they make good and bad. Drink coffee to much? Sorry Bean head, no job. Don't brush your teeth as often as you should? Sorry Plaque Head, no job. Have dandruff? Sorry Dry head, no job. Slouch? Sorry lazy ass, no job. The point of this is to explain we all have vices and to discriminate one when everyone has them in in poor tastes. If any you are perfect and only have perfect lifestyle choices, please stop me. It shames me that people are discussing how fat people deserve it. Who cares if they do? All of us would be walking around criticizing each other over everthing instead of working on progress.


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## impersonal (Mar 23, 2010)

> I've only been to London in the UK, and the selection has never been so good in the city (where life seems to want you to have fish and chips and whatever and go go go).


I lived in London in 2005 for 4 months, in the city, so I had ample time to see how things were. I rest my point. The food is for the most part disgusting, and for some varieties of products it's downright difficult to find the healthy one -- orange juice for example, but other stuff too. Often, there's a much cheaper but utterly repulsing alternative offered for everything relatively healthy.

Admittedly, you can have a healthy diet. You're just not really encouraged to do so, and shopping healthy requires more attention than in France for example. Overall, it gives an impression that the norm is to eat crap, and thus that it's okay to do it.


			
				Petenshi said:
			
		

> Lets discriminate everybody for life choices they make good and bad. Drink coffee to much? Sorry Bean head, no job. Don't brush your teeth as often as you should? Sorry Plaque Head, no job. Have dandruff? Sorry Dry head, no job. Slouch? Sorry lazy ass, no job.


Have you ever had a job interview? Go there looking like a hobo, even a ripped hobo, and tell me if you get the job... You won't. Looking like a hobo is a hint that you're generally a failure as a person, and thus probably incompetent and/or a source of problems sooner or later.

The same type of discrimination applies, to a much lesser extent, to people with dandruffs, drug problems or an "obesity issue". It just makes sense.


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## Dionysus (Mar 23, 2010)

impersonal said:


> I lived in London in 2005 for 4 months, in the city, so I had ample time to see how things were. I rest my point. The food is for the most part disgusting, and for some varieties of products it's downright difficult to find the healthy one -- orange juice for example, but other stuff too. Often, there's a much cheaper but utterly repulsing alternative offered for everything relatively healthy.


Well, that's all well and good, but I'm really only interested in Canada.  According to the graph you posted, the UK is quite a ways higher than Canada, which is more about most of continental Europe.

I must point out that I never once attempted to cook for myself in London, so I didn't search very hard for the good stuff.  For all I know, the healthiest food in the world could be tucked away on some side street and I'd never find it.


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## Petenshi (Mar 23, 2010)

impersonal said:


> Have you ever had a job interview? Go there looking like a hobo, even a ripped hobo, and tell me if you get the job... You won't. Looking like a hobo is a hint that you're generally a failure as a person, and thus probably incompetent and/or a source of problems sooner or later.
> 
> The same type of discrimination applies, to a much lesser extent, to people with dandruffs, drug problems or an "obesity issue". It just makes sense.



 Your logic is that only perfect people who don't have vices can get jobs. Obviously that is not true, for it it were none of us would have jobs. We are talking about what should be, not what is. I know you can't get hired like that, and I think it is ridiculously stupid. What you wear, and what you look like 99% have nothing to do with your job performance. That's why I have convinced my corporate office to allow for more comfortable clothing everyday. I proved to them that it has nothing to with anything, and that in fact employees work better when they are more comfortable.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 23, 2010)

*Unless your name is Zabuzalives or Black Wraith, please scroll to the bottom of my post.*



> Sounds like hes coming on to you Black Wraith


LOL GAY JOKES. How old are we? And isn't this the "obese civil rights" thread?

For the record, even if I were gay, is that some sort of social phenomena where you come from? omg gay people? Get over yourself.



> The guy's just pissed off because he's most likely fat.






> This is anther reason for calling you The True American.


Dude, what is your fucking issue? All the shit that's spewed from your keyboard is uncalled for fucking prejudice. Hand Banana and I disagreed, got to the point where we were near flamming, and here you are fucking blatantly calling out an entire country on being what, stupid? fat? Good call. Call the most powerful country in the world, stupid, and fat. What's your problem? My initial say was that BMI was bullshit. And EVERY one of your posts is fucking prejudice against a country. 





And then you have the fucking balls to say it's not prejudice?



Get the fuck out of here. People can disagree with my opinions of BMI all day in a thread about obesity, but stop being such a dickwad fucking talking shit about a whole country.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, to the rest of the people contributing to this thread. Dionysus, Impersonal, Petenshi, Rakiyo, and Kricketat. But I was just putting a stop to this blatant bullshit. Back on topic about what you're all talking about:

I agree with impersonal about most of those things. If you go into a job interview looking like crap, you're a lot less likely to get hired. It's all in how you present yourself. It's not _just_ weight. However if someone is very overweight, you can make the assumpti0n that their lifestyle may not be on the level that you're looking for as an employer.

EDIT:  





> What you wear, and what you look like 99% have nothing to do with your job performance.


 I disagree, somewhat. It depends on the job you're applying for. It's also got a lot to do with your presentation and speech skills, like public speaking. But clothing and looks, and ESPECIALLY hygiene have a large part in getting hired.


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## Zhariel (Mar 23, 2010)

I am considered overweight, and I can 100% say it's my fault. It doesn't effect my work, and it has minor effects on my life, but if it bothered me enough, I could change it. I'm not saying I don't feel for obese people, cause I know what that overwhelming urge to eat is like, and not feeling like it's even worth it to try and exercise. But it is, for all people. Maybe you'll always be a little big, sure, but that's no reason to not work down to a healthier weight. So, here's a guy who is technically overweight, saying it's your fault if you are :shrug


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## Elim Rawne (Mar 23, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Your logic is that only perfect people who don't have vices can get jobs. Obviously that is not true, for it it were none of us would have jobs. We are talking about what should be, not what is. I know you can't get hired like that, and I think it is ridiculously stupid. *What you wear, and what you look like 99% have nothing to do with your job performance.* That's why I have convinced my corporate office to allow for more comfortable clothing everyday. I proved to them that it has nothing to with anything, and that in fact employees work better when they are more comfortable.



If you look drunk off your ass or are drugged up,I'm pretty sure that has something to do with your job performance


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## Hand Banana (Mar 23, 2010)

Echo% said:


> I agree with impersonal about most of those things. If you go into a job interview looking like crap, you're a lot less likely to get hired. It's all in how you present yourself. It's not _just_ weight. However if someone is very overweight, you can make the assumption that their lifestyle may not be on the level that you're looking for as an employer.
> 
> EDIT:  * I disagree, somewhat. It depends on the job you're applying for. It's also got a lot to do with your presentation and speech skills, like public speaking. But clothing and looks, and ESPECIALLY hygiene have a large part in getting hired.*



Guys for the record I want to say something, the last part Echo said if you look past all his crying and you mad references, he is right. I just asked an HR rep at work is weight is something thats looked down up. And what she said was the samething Echo just said. The bolded part anyway.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 23, 2010)

Echo% said:


> *Unless your name is Zabuzalives or Black Wraith, please scroll to the bottom of my post.*
> 
> LOL GAY JOKES. How old are we? And isn't this the "obese civil rights" thread?For the record, even if I were gay, is that some sort of social phenomena where you come from? omg gay people? Get over yourself.



Gay jokes? Its a valid observation. 


You are the one claiming that what Black Wraith said """sounds fucking gay"". 

But you then admit you would be * glad * to have said ""fucking gay thing"" done to you by Black Wraith. 


Furthermore, I have no problem or issues with your homosexuality. Im from the Netherlands, were quite tolerant towards gay people. 





Your BMI=useless argument still sucks though. 

And you just shown your personal experience is close to what studies find..(25-30% obese) so why are you still discussing this? 
Seeing the health risks...having 3 times the numbers of obese people then the average western nation is a public health concern.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 23, 2010)

> Your BMI=useless argument still sucks though.


Right! Because they take muscle mass into consideration! And waist circumference too! And bone mass! And lean body mass!



My argument is valid, I'm not the only person in the world who thinks that. If you disagree, good for you.


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## Lover of Stories (Mar 23, 2010)

From the article: 





> "As soon as I shook the interviewer's hand, I knew she would not hire me," Ms. Brown said. "She gave me a look of utter disdain, and made a big deal about whether we should take the stairs or ride the elevator to the room where we were going to talk. During the actual interview, she would not even look at me and kept looking to the side." Ms. Brown, 36, who now works as an assistant dean at a college near Chicago, said she never even got a "No thank you" letter after the interview.



That's just horrible. As well as that girl being made fun of during the "wellness" campaign at her school. While fat is somewhat controllable, and not an integral part of someone, it is NOT an excuse to taunt or ridicule people, or to refuse them job oppurtunities.

Seriously. This can be really hurtful to people, and I wish the stigma would stop.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 23, 2010)

> or to refuse them job oppurtunities.


I was about to agree until you said this. Which, you're wrong. Read Handbanana, Diceman, the bottom of my own, and Impersonal's posts.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 23, 2010)

Lover of Stories said:


> From the article:
> 
> That's just horrible. As well as that girl being made fun of during the "wellness" campaign at her school. While fat is somewhat controllable, and not an integral part of someone, it is NOT an excuse to taunt or ridicule people, or to refuse them job oppurtunities.
> 
> Seriously. This can be really hurtful to people, and I wish the stigma would stop.



We don't know just how fat the fatty in question was, but I doubt they'd refuse her a job just for being a little chubby. I really have no idea why society should do anything but frown upon unhealthy, lazy behavior that all of society has to pay for.


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## @lk3mizt (Mar 23, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> *Fat rights!?
> 
> W.....what the hell is this shite?*  Okay I can understand if you have a glandular condition or if you have some predisposition to being larger.  However I highly doubt that that is the case for a large number of people whoa re simply to lazy or to gluttonous to become thinner.





Pilaf said:


> I dunno about you guys but I'm not about to take health advice from a Dr. Bacon.



     

you bastards are going to get me sent out of the library

omg, my stomach


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## Black Wraith (Mar 23, 2010)

Echo% said:


> *Unless your name is Zabuzalives or Black Wraith, please scroll to the bottom of my post.*
> 
> 
> LOL GAY JOKES. How old are we? And isn't this the "obese civil rights" thread?
> ...







> Dude, what is your fucking issue? All the shit that's spewed from your keyboard is uncalled for fucking prejudice. Hand Banana and I disagreed, got to the point where we were near flamming, and here you are fucking blatantly calling out an entire country on being what, stupid? fat? Good call. Call the most powerful country in the world, stupid, and fat. What's your problem? My initial say was that BMI was bullshit. And EVERY one of your posts is fucking prejudice against a country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






You know, learning when someone is not really being serious is a very good trait, even on the internetz.

Honestly I saw how serious your posts were and thought I'd see how you'd react. You've gotten so serious that you decided to take a damn photo to prove you're not fat.



You see what I'm doing. I'm posting random stuff which has some relevance to the discussion but is not meant to be taken seriously. I'm not posting long ass threads about it and getting angry because two guys I don't know are taking the jolly well mickey (I'm using a bit more English slang to confuse you) out of you.

In all you're an idiot.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 23, 2010)

Black Wraith said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Sorry bro I gotta do it don't hate me k, but um...


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## Black Wraith (Mar 23, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Sorry bro I gotta do it don't hate me k, but um...



It's ok


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## impersonal (Mar 23, 2010)

Lover of Stories said:


> From the article:
> 
> That's just horrible. As well as that girl being made fun of during the "wellness" campaign at her school. While fat is somewhat controllable, and not an integral part of someone, it is NOT an excuse to taunt or ridicule people, or to refuse them job oppurtunities.
> 
> Seriously. This can be really hurtful to people, and I wish the stigma would stop.


I know what you mean. Bullying never helps anyone. However, when it comes to hiring someone ... it's normal that personality traits are taken in account; and being fat is an indicator. An intelligent employer won't refuse someone just because he's fat. Most of the time, it's not going to determine whether a person is hired or not. 
But if an employer is hesitating between two persons, and one is morbidly obese while the other is in good health, well, it seems normal to me to take that into account.


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## Ech?ux (Mar 23, 2010)

My reply was going to be long but I'm just too damn happy to give a shit about what a bunch of you think. I'm going to go do something better than this shitty Naruto forum.


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## -Dargor- (Mar 23, 2010)

Being overweight = unhealthy, unfit for a lot of jobs, higher risks of strokes ect

Doesn't need much more explaining than that.

And what the hell is up with the first paragraph.


> As a woman whose height and weight put me in the obese category on the body-mass-index chart


Thats 20 words worth of trying to avoid the therm fat or overweight really...


> , I cringed when Michelle Obama recently spoke of putting her daughters on a diet. While I'm sure the first lady's intentions are good, I'm also sure that her comments about childhood obesity will add yet another layer to the stigma of being overweight in America.


Yes, because we should definitly encourage the youth into being overweight, its not like the US is the fattest country on the goddamn globe or anything. If the lady wants her kids to do some exercise its her own damn right and a fine healthy choice.

People in that country are paying way too much attention to whatever the presidents' wives say/do.

When people in a public bus see a 300lbs woman enter and take up 3 seats, it sure as hell ain't the "fat stygma" thats causing them to go wtf. When a fat guy is stuffing is face at McDonald's, spilling ketchup on his over-sized belly, it sure as hell ain't the "fat stygma" thats making passerbys lol.

Being over-weight is a problem, an unhealthy condition to be in. The only time when its fine is if you have a glandular problem, the rest are just too lazy to do something about it, don't try to use your own laziness to turn yourselves into victims.

lolstygma


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## krickitat (Mar 23, 2010)

oh no by all means keep going Im enjoying watching the show. 

echo next time take your shirt off  we can turn this into another naughty pic thread. 
I'd take my shirt off too but since so many people hate the fatties in here I guess im just gunna have to keep it on to spare all of you.


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## Havoc (Mar 23, 2010)

krickitat said:


> I'd take my shirt off too but since so many people hate the fatties in here I guess im just gunna have to keep it on to spare all of you.



Crisis averted.


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## krickitat (Mar 24, 2010)

I kno right? I almost made a serious social blunder that i doubt any of us would have recovered from quickly.


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## Havoc (Mar 24, 2010)

I don't know about that, but I definitely would not have been able to recover my appetite.


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## krickitat (Mar 24, 2010)

yes and likely flaccid for days.


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## Havoc (Mar 24, 2010)

Not likely.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 24, 2010)

Quagmire said:
			
		

> Fat chicks need love too. They just gotta pay



Indeed fella. indeed.


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## Petenshi (Mar 24, 2010)

Woah Woah Woah Woah, you said another naughty pic thread like it existed and there were mutiples of them! WHERE HAVE I BEEN?! 

Anyways, fat people do need love. However, I am interested in what they will pay with? Since we discriminate against them in this awesome country, do they have their own type of cheeseburger currency? Hmm? 

We just need to realize that being fat is a life choice just like any other, however bad it may be for the person.


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## krickitat (Mar 24, 2010)

whoa dude....you dont know about the naughty pic thread? 

LOL its in the supar sekret subforum thats invisible to people we dont like. 

Naw sorry Its in the bathhouse, which is the 18+ section of the forum. You have to request joinage to go there.
Dont get all excited or anything though....its all just raunchyness and porn everywhere. Not a serious conversation in sight unless its a serious conversation ABOUT raunchiness or porn.

Also I dont think I have ever had to pay for sex. Never even had to buy my own drinks. 

But I agree, fatties gotta pay!


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## Sanity Check (Mar 24, 2010)

Aw, no free love?  No free rides?  

Someone build a time machine back to the 70's....


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## Petenshi (Mar 24, 2010)

krickitat said:


> whoa dude....you dont know about the naughty pic thread?
> 
> LOL its in the supar sekret subforum thats invisible to people we dont like.
> 
> ...



Hmm, I hear about the BH all the time. I am too lazy to request access, maybe it will just fall in to my lap!

We all pay for sex in one way or another, sex is the ultimate quid pro quo and reciprocal altruism tool in the world.


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## krickitat (Mar 24, 2010)

yes, and last week I paid by having to wash my curtains.


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## Petenshi (Mar 24, 2010)

krickitat said:


> yes, and last week I paid by having to wash my curtains.



I see, you have that weird curtain fetish that is going around. Good thing we have healthcare now!


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## krickitat (Mar 24, 2010)

Oh _I_ didnt do anything to the curtains. I was just rudely woken up in the middle of the night to save my curtains from further embarassment.


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## Sanity Check (Mar 24, 2010)

Seeing as how I'm cleaning out my photobucket...  

A flab from the past.


*Spoiler*: __ 




I present to you, the *United States of Obesity, 2008*.


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## krickitat (Mar 24, 2010)

har har har mississippi makes sense. I have had to drive through that place and it just makes you feel fatter driving down the road.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 24, 2010)

krickitat said:


> oh no by all means keep going Im enjoying watching the show.
> 
> echo next time take your shirt off  we can turn this into another naughty pic thread.



And reveal all the folds of excess skin?? 

The amount he was raging clearly shows he is an ex-fatty who underwent major liposuction. 




krickitat said:


> I'd take my shirt off too but since so many people hate the fatties in here I guess im just gunna have to keep it on to spare all of you.



unless you have the fat in the right places 

seeing BMI does not take into account body make-up and fat% being overweight under the BMI index doesnt tell alot 

but BMI>30 is where the exceptions become rarer.


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## Jessica (Mar 24, 2010)

Reading the replies in here makes me feel really bad for big people.

If someone is overweight and isn't losing weight, maybe they have issues or something and need gentle support instead of the sort of harsh harassment people are posting in here.

But at least most of these people would never echo the things they say online in real life. They're too smart for that. 


Overweight people need support I think, like motivation and encouragement, which is an opinion I have that seems different from most people in here! But I do agree that the "fat rights" thing or whatever sound really, really ridiculous.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 24, 2010)

Jessica said:


> But at least most of these people would never echo the things they say online in real life. They're too smart for that.



Why not? They can't chase us down. 

And all of this stuff about needing support, there are groups who deserve support more and are far less responsible for their issue. Obesity is a self caused issue most of the time. All of this talk of its a disease, its genes and this that and the other, yeah its partly that but people need to take some responsibility.

Edit: Looks like Colorado might be a hottie gold mine


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## krickitat (Mar 24, 2010)

If you like sporty chicks who like to race up mountains. Hiking was never such an extreme sport until then. 

I saw an ad for overeaters anon last night in the local paper. Once you have a support group arent you legit then?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 24, 2010)

krickitat said:


> If you like sporty chicks who like to race up mountains. Hiking was never such an extreme sport until then.
> 
> I saw an ad for overeaters anon last night in the local paper. Once you have a support group arent you legit then?



True, I better go for one of the middle weight states...

And everything has a support group, there's probably one for chronic texters.


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## Petenshi (Mar 24, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> True, I better go for one of the middle weight states...
> 
> And everything has a support group, there's probably one for chronic texters.



I was looking at Kentucky, and it is very strange obesity is a problem with everyone in the whole state smoking .


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 24, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> I was looking at Kentucky, and it is very strange obesity is a problem with everyone in the whole state smoking .


Maybe they should try crack.


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## krickitat (Mar 25, 2010)

you know why tweakers lose all that weight? Cause they never shut up long enough to bite and chew food. 


noooo thanks 

I can deal with the theivery, yellow skin, cracked teeth, paranoia, the incessant need to "fix" everything, but they just dont ever shut up. If you could lose weight just from talking so much you burn calories then tweakers can do it.


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