# All nuclear bombs ever made vs Vegeta Saiyan Saga



## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

In this scenario Vegeta is in a desert far away from any human life. All nuclear bombs that were ever made are surrounding him and they explode at the same time. Does he survive? If Vegeta has no chance of hell of surviving make it 1st form Frieza instead. 

Sorry if this is noobish thread


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## Xelloss (May 22, 2011)

He survive the damage, he dies from radiation poisoning.


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## HiroshiSenju (May 22, 2011)

I'm not sure of Saiyan Saga Vegeta's durability feats, but I know he was capable of planet-busting at his level, and usually, DBZ characters can handle up to whatever they can dish out.

Although, all the nuclear bombs ever made would deal an incredible amount of destruction (perhaps enough to wipe out the planet). I'm not sure.

If this is Great Ape Vegeta, he probably can tank them.

First form Frieza takes them with ease.


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## Toriko (May 22, 2011)

survives the heat/damage, possibly dies from the radiation.

1st form freeza same


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

lets make it base form vegeta


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## OS (May 22, 2011)

He probably dies from radiation. 

But seriously we still die on Earth.


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## Toriko (May 22, 2011)

he can tank the bombs no problem, but any human fighter is going to be affected by the radiation.


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

Planet blows up so he dies in space!


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## Tranquil Fury (May 22, 2011)

He can't take this kind of heat and radiation. All nuclear bombs ever made?Yeah that will kill any DB character, they can't tank heat like that.


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## KaiserWombat (May 22, 2011)

The heat generated by a single nuclear explosive rates in the millions of degrees Kelvin, it would be pretty insane of anyone here to suggest that Saiyan Saga Vegeta could survive even one of such temperatures, much less the combined weapons arsenal.

And people have already brought up the radiation issues


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

Dragonball Roshi destroyed the moon and Piccolo could destroy the planet but if they hit Vegeta together it wouldn't faze him, so I don't think Nuclear bombs would either, though the radiation and the fact that he can't breathe in space would.


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## Thor (May 22, 2011)

Vegeta no sells the nukes.


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## Greed (May 22, 2011)

This is some pretty heavy overkill

Vegeta gets incinerated, Kaiser hit the nail on the head.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 22, 2011)

When could Piccolo in Saiyan saga blow up the planet? A Nuclear bomb is more than just explosive power, Ki attacks are not stated to have heat.


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## HiroshiSenju (May 22, 2011)

KaiserWombat said:


> The heat generated by a single nuclear explosive rates in the millions of degrees Kelvin, it would be pretty insane of anyone here to suggest that Saiyan Saga Vegeta could survive even one of such temperatures, much less the combined weapons arsenal.
> 
> And people have already brought up the radiation issues



He's right.


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

he destroyed the moon with a casual ki blast so maybe he can take out a small planet but i doubt earth


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> he destroyed the moon with a casual ki blast so maybe he can take out a small planet but i doubt earth



Master Roshi blew up the moon in dragon ball and at the end of dragonball Piccolo who was many many times stronger than roshi was threating to destroy the world.


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## Toriko (May 22, 2011)

Oh no, not this again


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## KaiserWombat (May 22, 2011)

Master Roshi's moon-busting feat is considered an outlier in the OBD due to the outrageously high destructive output being completely inconsistent with the feats of later and more powerful characters in DragonBall Part I (Roshi comments that he has no way of defeating the elderly King Piccolo without resorting to Mafuba, youthful KP > elderly KP, yet two city-busting ki blasts nearly exert his energy reserves completely and prevent him from avoiding an injured Goku's Oozaru Ken)

At least Piccolo Jr's moon-buster can be supported by the gradual upgrade to planet-destroying PLs just one arc later

The Kamehameha which wiped out Gyu Mao's castle and Fry Pan Mountain is a more accurate assessment of power for that time.


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

Don't make me search for chapter.


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## KaiserWombat (May 22, 2011)

...I'm not asking you to, I'm just telling you the forum standards


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

KaiserWombat said:


> ...I'm not asking you to, I'm just telling you the forum standards



What do you mean the forums standards? Master Roshi in Dragonball blew up the fucking moon!


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

The same Kamehameha that took out that Mountain was the same Kamehameha that blew up the earth cus both were done in buff form. The moon busting feat is a an example of PIS, cus without it Goku would of killed everybody in his Ape form


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> The same Kamehameha that took out that Mountain was the same Kamehameha that blew up the earth cus both were done in buff form. The moon busting feat is a an example of PIS, cus without it Goku would of killed everybody in his Ape form



U on bwt the yellow stuff, drip drip drip?


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

idk even know what you are saying but, in both cases he took around the same time to charge the Kamehameha. Also Roshi didn't get any large increase in power during those time periods so that makes the moon busting feat very inconsistent. It's just like Pre crisis superman's multiversal speed feat. He almost destroyed the multiverse by flying so fast and the spectre has to stop him. But in all of this other comics he only showed solar system to maybe galaxy affecting feats.


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## OS (May 22, 2011)

Physics. Put  for the picture to show in your sig. If that's what you intended in the first place


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

thanks a lot


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## Amorozov (May 22, 2011)

What is it with people talking about the planet exploding? Put all our nuclear arsenal and multiple it by million and it's still not blowing up Earth.. 

Though I doubt that Saiyan Saga Vegeta could tank the heat and radiation from even one nuke..


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> idk even know what you are saying but, in both cases he took around the same time to charge the Kamehameha. Also Roshi didn't get any large increase in power during those time periods so that makes the moon busting feat very inconsistent. It's just like Pre crisis superman's multiversal speed feat. He almost destroyed the multiverse by flying so fast and the spectre has to stop him. But in all of this other comics he only showed solar system to maybe galaxy affecting feats.



Oh your saying it's inconsistent, well it's still cannon and it's probably all his energy + his will power.


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

Both cases were all of his energy, Roshi was tired out after he used both Kamehamehas. Also he didn't gain any large power up between those two times, thus the feat is inconsistent.


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Both cases were all of his energy, Roshi was tired out after he used both Kamehamehas. Also he didn't gain any large power up between those two times, thus the feat is inconsistent.



Doesn't matter it still happened. And even if DragonballZ Piccolo hit Vegeta with his best attack it wouldn't scratch him.


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## OS (May 22, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Doesn't matter it still happened. And even if DragonballZ Piccolo hit Vegeta with his best attack it wouldn't scratch him.



That's because the clothes in Dragon Ball have planet level durability.


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## Artful Lurker (May 22, 2011)

ORIGINALxSIN said:


> That's because the clothes in Dragon Ball have planet level durability.



That's so true and Amorozov's right I don't think it would destroy the earth but Vegeta still couldn't handle the radiation.


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## Nevermind (May 22, 2011)

He survives the blast and frag. Not sure if he survives the heat. The radiation probably kills him if he survives the former.


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## Omnirix (May 22, 2011)

There's no way Vegeta is tanking millions of calvin and radiation poison. No one in DBZ except maybe the top tiers like Vegito and some forms of Buu can withstand planetbusters. Heck everyone is in shock whenever a planet busting attack is commencing. Final Flash, Cell's self detonation, Kid Buu's vanishing ball. 

DBZ was supposed to end during Freeza arc and that both Goku and Freeza are killed when Namek explodes.


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## Heavenly King (May 22, 2011)

He dies from the heat never mind the radiation poison


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## KaiserWombat (May 22, 2011)

Correction; Dragon Ball was supposed to end numerous times both before _and_ after the Freeza Saga, it was a consistency for Toriyama and his editors to continue the manga only due to popularity power.

How this particular incident backdrafted into the Internet as the most (and assumed to be the only) popular bookend is puzzling.


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

Sometimes what you see isn't what you get. Also is this event referenced to again the manga


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## Heavenly King (May 22, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Both cases were all of his energy, Roshi was tired out after he used both Kamehamehas. Also he didn't gain any large power up between those two times, thus the feat is inconsistent.




 some one has done their home work


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 22, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Ki attacks are not stated to have heat.


 Gohan used one to start  a fire once. 
Not that this is any comparison. vegeta dies from the heat/radiation


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## Deleted member 45015 (May 22, 2011)

Basically there wouldn't be enough left of Vegeta to fit in a matchbox....


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## Sazabi24 (May 22, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> Gohan used one to start  a fire once.
> Not that this is any comparison. vegeta dies from the heat/radiation



Feat wise, that makes the maximum heat of a ki blast have the heat of a small fire.


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 22, 2011)

Sazabi24 said:


> Feat wise, that makes the maximum heat of a ki blast have the heat of a small fire.


No, that makes the minimum level of heat.
It was kid Gohan i don;t think he even had a power level of 1000 yet.


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

If a nuclear explosion happened on a mountain you would see melted rock, I never saw any metal rock or metal after a ki blast. Blunt force can also cause heat igniting a fire. I believe ki blasts are just blunt force


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 22, 2011)

Blunt force lighting a fire huh care to explain?


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> Blunt force lighting a fire huh care to explain?




Lighting is hot, hit two rock together you get spark. There is your explanation


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 22, 2011)

The spark is generated by the friction of two rocks hitting together and is therefore hot. Ki doesn't work that way and even if it did tanking it would still be tanking something hot enough to light a campfire instantly.


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

Yah blunt force can generate heat, by friction and converting other forms of energy into heat. If Ki produced heat it would blow up and melt the surround rocks around that has never been demonstrated in DBZ. A lighter would light a camp fire instantly.


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## Geralt of Rivia (May 22, 2011)

Cooler got shat on by the sun, I'll take a guess and say all nukes ever made going off is hotter than the inside of the sun.


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## V3L0C1TY (May 22, 2011)

Firstly, using some common sense here, every bomb we have on the Earth ISN'T going to destroy it. 1 nuke can barely scratch the crust of the Earth. Thousands more wouldn't be much of any difference (in terms of destructive damage done to the Earth is).

Secondly, Vegeta and everyone else in DBZ/GT excluding Nova/Omega Shenron (thanks to their heat resistance, but Nova would likely die from the radiation while Omega may not) would die if they got hit by a nuclear bomb. Were talking millions upon mullions of degrees of heat here. The higher ups, such as Broly, would've been disintegrated by *lava* (which is IIRC somewhere between 1000 - 3000 degrees Fahrenheit) had he not created a barrier. Then you have the obvious radiation problems to make sure they die if they somehow did survive one.


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 22, 2011)

Freeza survived the heat of a planet exploding. so heat durability wise , they should be able to withstand lava at least.


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## Havoc (May 22, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> Freeza survived the heat of a planet exploding. so heat durability wise , they should be able to withstand lava at least.


I don't remember if he did or not, he's also not saiyan so it's irrelevant.


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## Physics Man (May 22, 2011)

GT and movie feats don't count they aren't cannon


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 23, 2011)

Havoc said:


> I don't remember if he did or not, he's also not saiyan so it's irrelevant.


he was found half dead wih most of his limbs missing in the debris of Namek, which had a particularly fiery explosion. Its usually agreed that DBZ characters could survive  a planet blowing up on them, but would die do to lack of oxygen. This still doesn't put their heat durability on Nuke level.


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## Heavenly King (May 23, 2011)

100% Ichigo said:


> Cooler got shat on by the sun, I'll take a guess and say all nukes ever made going off is hotter than the inside of the sun.



cooler and vegeta's body make up is so different


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## Reznor (May 23, 2011)

I don't think that Saiyan Saga Vegeta can survive a planet buster, but stop comparing ever nuke ever made to a planet buster. Also "millions" is probably far above the number of nukes ever made, but still much less than planet busting.


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## Shoddragon (May 23, 2011)

The radiation would kill him and I don't think anyone here could argue otherwise.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 23, 2011)

Cooler is non canon.


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## Artful Lurker (May 23, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> If a nuclear explosion happened on a mountain you would see melted rock, I never saw any metal rock or metal after a ki blast. Blunt force can also cause heat igniting a fire. I believe ki blasts are just blunt force



Frieza Saga


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## V3L0C1TY (May 23, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> Freeza survived the heat of a planet exploding. so heat durability wise , they should be able to withstand lava at least.



Vegeta cant withstand lava. Freeza can.

Freeza and Vegeta are two different beings. 

Freeza (along with Cell) explicitly stated that he can survive horrible damage whileas most others cannot. It was proven MANY times as well. Same applies for Cooler. 2 examples

-Cooler survived the horrid vacuums of space moving faster than light after being Kamehameha'd by Goku into the sun in a handful of seconds, then survived being mashed into the sun. 99% of things in the DBverse would've long been dead before they even got close to the sun.
-Freeza getting his tail chopped off numerous times is a starter. He gets his ass kicked by Goku, survives being sliced in half from the waist down and then to top it off, survived a planet excluding and still remained alive. 

If Vegeta was in either one of the those scenarios, he would've been dead. Not even Plotkai could save Broly from being burned to death by the sun in seconds whereas Cooler survived for longer than he did, despite being far weaker.


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## KaiserWombat (May 23, 2011)

If you use Cooler as an example of non-canon resistances, don't neglect to include the fact that SSjin Goku (Freeza Saga) was pratically bathing in lava at one point, plus his and Freeza's clashes in the anime were frequently in close proximity to lava with no detriment.

And depending on the nature of planetary explosions (if a planet's core can directly correlate in any way), the temperatures emitted may very well surpass that of lava's (approaching the 7000 degree Kelvin mark)


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## Skywalker (May 23, 2011)

Even if he didn't die from the bombs, he'd die after the planet is blown up.


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## Amorozov (May 23, 2011)

Skywalker said:


> Even if he didn't die from the bombs, he'd die after the planet is blown up.



How many times must this be told: even 10,000,000,000 Tzhaar bombs (the biggest nuke ever made) wouldn't be able to blow up Earth.


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## shinyzekrom (May 23, 2011)

Vegeta tanks this.

Then dies.


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## Skywalker (May 23, 2011)

Amorozov said:


> How many times must this be told: even 10,000,000,000 Tzhaar bombs (the biggest nuke ever made) wouldn't be able to blow up Earth.


Shush noob, gtfo of the BD.


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## Artful Lurker (May 23, 2011)

Skywalker said:


> Shush noob, gtfo of the BD.



STFU, he talks sense.


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## Amorozov (May 23, 2011)

Skywalker said:


> Shush noob, gtfo of the BD.



The amount actually is far more than I thought: "The term "planetbuster" is somewhat of a misnomer, since there are many different types of planets that come in many different sizes and masses. As it is used in the OBD, it generally refers to the ability to destroy at least an earth-sized planet of the same mass. As it happens, there is a formula for determining how much energy is required to scatter a body beyond the power of gravity to pull it back together. For the earth, that amount of energy is at the minimum 2.24xE32 joules. To give you some idea of how absurd that is: Tsar Bomba, the largest nuke ever detonated, is at 50 Megatons of explosive power. If we wanted to destroy earth, it would take approximately 1 quadrillion Tsar Bombas, at the bare minimum."

Though I'm not sure how reliable that calculation is, saying that we could planet bust with our nukes is just ridiculous.


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## Lina Inverse (May 23, 2011)

well apparently we can blow up the sun with nukes, so why not earth?


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## DarkBladex96 (May 24, 2011)

Every part of the explosion kills vegeta.

DB has notoriously low durability(physical) feats.

DB goku tanked a island buster but after that not much. Im pretty sure that all elements of 1000s of atomic explosions can kill vegeta. Vegeta tanking goku's planet buster was pure ki defense(manipulation). Look how goku's attacks where wrecking him and none of those physical blows was even mountain lvl, hell barely city block lvl.


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## Masa (May 24, 2011)

I'm just guessing here, but an exploding planet should create more heat through friction than a nuke.  After all, all heat is is kinetic energy and an exploding planet has many orders of magnitudes more kinetic energy than a nuke.


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## DarkBladex96 (May 24, 2011)

why did the thread go off on a tangent about the planet being blown up.....can that please stop being brought up. Its not happening in this scenario.


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## Shoddragon (May 24, 2011)

I hope noone is trying to suggest because people can tank island busters that they can tank a nuke. Destructive capacity doesn't equal heat. The heat of a nuke comes from the fusion reaction.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (May 24, 2011)

Shoddragon said:


> The heat of a nuke comes from the fusion reaction.



Not all of them. All the original nukes were fission reactions. Hell wiki says most of the energy in a hydrogen bomb comes from fission


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## Shoddragon (May 24, 2011)

That's because fission is a significantly weaker producer of energy compared to fusion. I know how it works. If it was a complete fusion reaction one nuke would fuck up the planet.


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## Masa (May 24, 2011)

Shoddragon said:


> I hope noone is trying to suggest because people can tank island busters that they can tank a nuke. Destructive capacity doesn't equal heat. The heat of a nuke comes from the fusion reaction.



Fusion requires heat to occur, the heat of a nuke comes from there being a shit load of kinetic energy in a small area, but probably not as much kinetic energy as say vaporizing an island would take.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 24, 2011)

For the last time the ki blasts do not generate as much heat as you would expect, so blowing up moons or planets does not mean they're creating that much heat nor does tanking a moon busting or planet busting Kamehameha mean they're surviving such heat. We are using Saiyan saga Vegeta who cannot tank a planet buster.

EDIT Yeah and yet even regular humans are fine after Piccolo does his thing. The Island was not destroyed and if the blast had the kind of heat something like that would require no one but Goku and Piccolo would have lived. Goku was standing on a tile, that alone discards the possibility of such heat.


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## Masa (May 24, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> For the last time the ki blasts do not generate as much heat as you would expect, so blowing up moons or planets does not mean they're creating that much heat nor does tanking a moon busting or planet busting Kamehameha mean they're surviving such heat. We are using Saiyan saga Vegeta who cannot tank a planet buster.



Things blowing up = Kinetic energy = Heat

Kinetic energy of a moon/planet exploding>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nuke


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## Tranquil Fury (May 24, 2011)

Did you miss the part where a tile is still standing after an Island has been razed?did you miss the part where Mr. Satan is still alive in Cell games? Ki is magical, it does'nt seem to generate the kind of heat such explosions should, there is plenty to support this. In short no to surviving the heat of a nuke let alone every nuke ever made and hell no to surviving the radiation as well.


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## Lucifeller (May 24, 2011)

Masa said:


> Things blowing up = Kinetic energy = Heat
> 
> Kinetic energy of a moon/planet exploding>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nuke



Kinetic energy is NOT the same as heat. It is PART of what makes up heat.

And regardless, the hottest a planet's core can get is about 40,000 degrees, from what we saw of the solar system and extrapolated for similar planets. Jupiter is a protostar (basically a failed star that didn't accumulate nearly enough mass to move past gas giant), and its core temperature has been estimated at around the aforementioned 40,000 (with its liquid surface breaking 1500 easily IIRC), but a single nuke reaches in the _tens of millions_ of degrees with no effort whatsoever. Hell, a single lightning bolt generates temperatures in excess of any planet's core, being plasma and all...

Vegeta can tank the trauma of the explosion's kinetic energy (air displacement and shockwave), but he's going to be vaporized by the heat generated by the explosion if he's ANYwhere near ground zero of even one nuke, let alone all of them at once. They may not be able to destroy the world, but I assure you that detonating them all at once will not only punch a respectable hole in Earth's surface with heat alone, but irradiate it enough that any higher lifeform will die from the rad poisoning.

And if Goku can catch a heart virus, he can catch rad poisoning. So Saiyan should be affected by it.


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## Masa (May 24, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Did you miss the part where a tile is still standing after an Island has been razed?did you miss the part where Mr. Satan is still alive in Cell games? Ki is magical, it does'nt seem to generate the kind of heat such explosions should, there is plenty to support this. In short no to surviving the heat of a nuke let alone every nuke ever made and hell no to surviving the radiation as well.


Low showings discount planets being blown up?



> Kinetic energy is NOT the same as heat. It is PART of what makes up heat.
> 
> And regardless, the hottest a planet's core can get is about 40,000 degrees, from what we saw of the solar system and extrapolated for similar planets. Jupiter is a protostar (basically a failed star that didn't accumulate nearly enough mass to move past gas giant), and its core temperature has been estimated at around the aforementioned 40,000 (with its liquid surface breaking 1500 easily IIRC), but a single nuke reaches in the tens of millions of degrees with no effort whatsoever. Hell, a single lightning bolt generates temperatures in excess of any planet's core, being plasma and all...
> 
> ...


You are saying friction between mountain-sized+ debris colliding at faster than the escape velocity of a planet wont cause more heat than a nuke?


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## Tranquil Fury (May 24, 2011)

No, your statement of the explosions having as much heat as they should is discounted by actual feats in the manga. You mentioned Piccolo's feat and I countered by mentioning a tile and those around were fine. There are plenty of examples like this and you can't call low end showing on Piccolo's feat when they can't planet bust at this point either.


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## Endless Mike (May 24, 2011)

If the concussive force doesn't get him, the heat and radiation will


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## Thor (May 24, 2011)

We don't know what type of heart virus Goku had. Why do people bring this up? The virus obviously wasn't earth borne because Bulma had no clue what it was. 

That's my 2cents on the radiation harming him.


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## Sabotage (May 24, 2011)

If the heat doesn't kill him, the radiation will.


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## Endless Mike (May 24, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Trunks said it was a virus that was going around the general population on earth.


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## Juub (May 24, 2011)

The heat and the radiation would kill Vegeta. This is Saiyan Saga we're talking about, they weren't all that strong in that time. Something fair would be Androids Saga.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 24, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> I'm pretty sure Trunks said it was a virus that was going around the general population on earth.



I remember that and the medicine he had was b/c it was common place in his time vs in DBZ's current time would be considered rare and incurable for quite some time.

If it were foreign, I can't imagine they would have a immediate vaccine even in Trunk's time since Goku was the only case and the virus would die along with him. And if they had a vaccine for a foreign virus with only one known case (even better since no one else besides maybe his friends would catch it possibly since Goku lives in a secluded area and no one else could accidentally contract it) 10+ years later, that would be odd as hell.


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## Artful Lurker (May 25, 2011)

What little fucker said ki blasts are blunt force?
Why is that when ki blast hit solid rock or desert there is a explosion(flames)?
Why did Goku hands burn when he touched Freiza's ki blast?


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> What little fucker said ki blasts are blunt force?
> Why is that when ki blast hit solid rock or desert there is a explosion(flames)?
> Why did Goku hands burn when he touched Freiza's ki blast?



Blunt force when it rubs against something with friction can cause heat. Ki blasts are enegy which be converted into heat. The blast itself doesn't need to to be hot.


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## Artful Lurker (May 25, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Blunt force when it rubs against something with friction can cause heat. Ki blasts are enegy which be converted into heat. The blast itself doesn't need to to be hot.



Then why are there flames when it connects with rocks and desert?


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

Give me a example of ki melting anything or show me some scans and I might reconsider.


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Then why are there flames when it connects with rocks and desert?



Same reason why when you hit two rocks together you get sparks


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## Artful Lurker (May 25, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Same reason why when you hit two rocks together you get sparks



LOL it wont create fire without heat and fuel.


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> LOL it wont create fire without heat and fuel.



Sparks= Heat air which has flammable gass is fuel


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Then why are there flames when it connects with rocks and desert?



Also if it was heat then when it hit the desert it would form glass cus heated sand makes glass


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## Artful Lurker (May 25, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Also if it was heat then when it hit the desert it would form glass cus heated sand makes glass



Even if you hit rocks together all day there will not be no flame without fuel such as paper or propane to burn. oxygen + heat + fuel.


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Even if you hit rocks together all day there will not be no flame without fuel such as paper or propane to burn. oxygen + heat + fuel.



Oxygen can be fuel if you make something hot enough even if it's in the middle of no where it will ignite the oxygen and cause a giant fire.


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## Artful Lurker (May 25, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Oxygen can be fuel if you make something hot enough even if it's in the middle of no where it will ignite the oxygen and cause a giant fire.



No it's not flammable.


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> No it's not flammable.



My bad I should of said atmosphere. Just look at the asteroid that killed the dinosaur, it killed them by igniting the atmosphere, because it was so hot. Also if there are hot enough sparks, that can cause a fire. If DBZ blasts were hot, they would melt stuff, they would create lava. Not craters.


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## Toriko (May 25, 2011)

Didn't Vegeta throw a fireball at Goku lol?


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

Brohan said:


> Didn't Vegeta throw a fireball at Goku lol?



IDk if that was just anime or Manga, but he could of made a fireball by using ki to generate friction on his hand or something like that. However regular ki blasts don't show any signs they are very hot. If they were you would see melted rocks and sand turning into glass.


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## Juub (May 25, 2011)

Ki blasts have heat but not anything near to nuke level. They just blow shit up.


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## Guru (May 25, 2011)

So all we really need when nuclear war breaks out is Frieza to protect us, Fo Sho!


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## Physics Man (May 25, 2011)

Juub said:


> Ki blasts have heat but not anything near to nuke level. They just blow shit up.



I'm willing to settle with that. Ki blasts  have some heat, but the main thing behind there destructiveness is there blunt force.


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## Skywalker (May 25, 2011)

Amorozov said:


> The amount actually is far more than I thought: "The term "planetbuster" is somewhat of a misnomer, since there are many different types of planets that come in many different sizes and masses. As it is used in the OBD, it generally refers to the ability to destroy at least an earth-sized planet of the same mass. As it happens, there is a formula for determining how much energy is required to scatter a body beyond the power of gravity to pull it back together. For the earth, that amount of energy is at the minimum 2.24xE32 joules. To give you some idea of how absurd that is: Tsar Bomba, the largest nuke ever detonated, is at 50 Megatons of explosive power. If we wanted to destroy earth, it would take approximately 1 quadrillion Tsar Bombas, at the bare minimum."
> 
> Though I'm not sure how reliable that calculation is, saying that we could planet bust with our nukes is just ridiculous.


Can't take a joke, can you?


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## Amorozov (May 26, 2011)

Skywalker said:


> Can't take a joke, can you?



I just wanted to make clear that we cannot planet bust with our nukes as it seemed that some here thought so.


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## Bender (May 26, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Vegeta could put up a barrier when they hit 'em with the nukes


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## Lucifeller (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> No it's not flammable.




Uh, actually, pure concentrated oxygen is highly volatile. There's a reason why there are 'no smoking' signs near oxygen canisters - even a spark is enough to ignite them and make them violently explode.

The reason why air isn't usually flammable is because 75% of our atmosphere is inert gases, not oxygen - if our atmosphere was pure oxygen, the first stray spark would torch all of us into cinders within seconds in a planetary display of flashfire, since all that's needed for that is oxygen and a bit of dust - which is everywhere.


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## Orochibuto (May 26, 2011)

Well, I dont know how people will take it since its not the manga. But I remember clearly how in the Broly movie they opened a hole to an underground magma cave and Broly immediatly proceeded to avoid it and put a barrier around it, and it was just a magma cave. Nukes would do wonders.

In general I think DBZ fighters were always lucky they always fought enemies that only blow shit up and fought like them, they never showed great versatility, if they had faced with a durable enough enemy with non conventional attacks for them it would fuck them. Even attacks like chocolate transmutation required a beam to hit you.


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## Genyosai (May 26, 2011)

Saying that a nuke produces ten million degree temperatures as an argument is misleading, because it only does so in a very brief period, on a small scale. This is the characteristic blue-violet flash you see, and then after that, as the fireball expands rapidly, the temperatures drop rapidly too, into the thousands.

Human beings can survive being hit by lighting, which has a temperature hotter than the sun, because it doesn't have enough sustained power. It may have a higher power density, but the amount of energy transferred isn't enough to atomize you as if you sat at the core of the son. 

I suppose being hit by every nuke ever is a much more chaotic story and could still kill him, but it's not like ki is absolutely confirmed not to be hot. They wanted to vaporize Buu with it at least. The only weird thing is the lack of thermal radiation outside the fireball (or ki-ball); you can either say that A: this is because ki can't be hot enough, B: the ki-explosions trap the heat inside at a high intensity, but release it outside the fireball more slowly, as if it's a spherical expanding barrier _containing_ the heat, or C: ...toonforce lolzords!

In the anime, you have feats of Goku confronting fire and lava and being burned, or in danger, but I'm not so sure there is actual proof in canon. So are is there an overt contradiction there?

On the other hand, if he could make a dense enough barrier it could help him survive the radiation, but there's no proof of that in canon either.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> My bad I should of said atmosphere. Just look at the asteroid that killed the dinosaur, it killed them by igniting the atmosphere, because it was so hot. Also if there are hot enough sparks, that can cause a fire. If DBZ blasts were hot, they would melt stuff, they would create lava. Not craters.



No the astroids do not burn the the atmosphere. Their exterior is hot and this heat is transfered but most of the damage is impact. 



Lucifeller said:


> Uh, actually, pure concentrated oxygen is highly volatile. There's a reason why there are 'no smoking' signs near oxygen canisters - even a spark is enough to ignite them and make them violently explode.
> 
> The reason why air isn't usually flammable is because 75% of our atmosphere is inert gases, not oxygen - if our atmosphere was pure oxygen, the first stray spark would torch all of us into cinders within seconds in a planetary display of flashfire, since all that's needed for that is oxygen and a bit of dust - which is everywhere.



lol, your funny. Oxygen is not a fuel it is an oxidizer.


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## Juub (May 26, 2011)

Yeah can someone post a chemical reaction of oxygen being the fuel rather than the oxidizing element? Most fuels need oxygen to produce a combustion reaction that usually results in a release of carbon dioxyde. I didn't know oxygen could be a fuel.



Physics Man said:


> Oxygen can be fuel


 Really? I didn't know that. Considering your name is physics man, I'm guessing you probably have some knowledge on chemistry. Can you post an exothermic chemical reaction with oxygen as the fuel? I wonder what will oxide it for it to burn though.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Juub said:


> Yeah can someone post a chemical reaction of oxygen being the fuel rather than the oxidizing element? Most fuels need oxygen to produce a combustion reaction that usually results in a release of carbon dioxyde. I didn't know oxygen could be a fuel.
> 
> Really? I didn't know that. Considering your name is physics man, I'm guessing you probably have some knowledge on chemistry. Can you post an exothermic chemical reaction with oxygen as the fuel? I wonder what will oxide it for it to burn though.



LOL, I seen his name and I thought he'd have a degree in physics or at least be studying it.


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## Lucifeller (May 26, 2011)

> Human beings can survive being hit by lighting, which has a temperature hotter than the sun, because it doesn't have enough sustained power. It may have a higher power density, but the amount of energy transferred isn't enough to atomize you as if you sat at the core of the son.



A lightning bolt can hit temperatures of up to 30,000 Kelvin. A nuclear explosion at ground zero can exceed _100 million Kelvin_, and even taking into account heat dispersion, it'll still be hundreds of thousands of Kelvin for a good radius around ground zero.

Bottom line, if Vegeta is anywhere near ground zero of a nuke, he's going to be reduced to his component atoms.

Also, regarding oxygen being fuel? The sun will eventually burn all the hydrogen and start processing oxygen and other heavier gases in its nuclear fusion's combustion process (becoming a red giant and crispifying half the solar system in the process, I might add). So yes, oxygen CAN be fuel, it just requires enough solicitation, like a fusion reaction.


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## Juub (May 26, 2011)

Lucifeller said:


> Also, regarding oxygen being fuel? The sun will eventually burn all the hydrogen and start processing oxygen and other heavier gases in its nuclear fusion's combustion process (becoming a red giant and crispifying half the solar system in the process, I might add). So yes, oxygen CAN be fuel, it just requires enough solicitation, like a fusion reaction.


 Never heard of that, really interesting though. Do you have a source of something? I absolutely wasn't aware the chief oxidizer could be the fuel in a combustion reaction. Makes me wonder what will oxide the oxygen if it's already being used as the fuel.


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## Lucifeller (May 26, 2011)

As I said, oxygen can be the fuel in NUCLEAR FUSION reactions - which work a bit differently than regular combustion, but ARE a form of combustion, as our Sun so clearly proves.

If you look up what the Sun's fate will ultimately be, you'll notice that all theories point to it eventually running out of hydrogen to burn, and moving on to other 'heavier' fusion materials. This, however, will cause an expansion in its size, which is how it'll go red giant.

Thankfully (?) our Sun is too small to go supergiant or nova - so there's no risk of it flashfrying everything up to and past Pluto's orbit in a giant blaze of glory and then collapsing in a black hole. The most likely fate is that it'll become a red giant, vaporizing Mercury and rendering Earth uninhabitable due to heat, and then, a long time later, will collapse in a white dwarf and become much colder due to running out of even more fusion material and starting fusion of heavy metals.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Lucifeller said:


> As I said, oxygen can be the fuel in NUCLEAR FUSION reactions - which work a bit differently than regular combustion, but ARE a form of combustion, as our Sun so clearly proves.
> 
> If you look up what the Sun's fate will ultimately be, you'll notice that all theories point to it eventually running out of hydrogen to burn, and moving on to other 'heavier' fusion materials. This, however, will cause an expansion in its size, which is how it'll go red giant.
> 
> Thankfully (?) our Sun is too small to go supergiant or nova - so there's no risk of it flashfrying everything up to and past Pluto's orbit in a giant blaze of glory and then collapsing in a black hole. The most likely fate is that it'll become a red giant, vaporizing Mercury and rendering Earth uninhabitable due to heat, and then, a long time later, will collapse in a white dwarf and become much colder due to running out of even more fusion material and starting fusion of heavy metals.



I think not, this is a fundamental.


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## Juub (May 26, 2011)

Thanks for the explanation. Considering it's nuclear physics, I ain't touching that with a 10 foot pole. I'll just talk within the boundaries of my knowledge.

Still, the argument here seemed to be that oxygen could be used as a fuel in a conventional combustion reaction, as you pointed out, it can be used as a fuel under really particular and unusual conditions but clearly not in your run-off-the-mill combustion reaction. Good thing you came in to settle the argument.


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## Lucifeller (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> I think not, this is a fundamental.



PROTIP: Nuclear physics don't work that way. Look them up, it may be an interesting read.

Nuclear fusion IS still classified as a type of combustion, since it consumes fuel materials to produce something else entirely, but it doesn't work like regular combustion.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Lucifeller said:


> PROTIP: Nuclear physics don't work that way. Look them up, it may be an interesting read.
> 
> Nuclear fusion IS still classified as a type of combustion, since it consumes fuel materials to produce something else entirely, but it doesn't work like regular combustion.



Okay give me the link and by tomorrow I'll have a definite answer for you.

Is there a link?


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## Physics Man (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> LOL, I seen his name and I thought he'd have a degree in physics or at least be studying it.



I am studying physics and completed my first year. I haven't taken chemistry in a while so I was wrong about it being a fuel. But it can be ignited, if you light a match near oxygen the oxygen will catch on fire. If the immesne blunt force a of a DBZ ki blast makes sparks or creates heat it would ignite the air around it. Look at goku's first Kamehameha it was only blunt power if the car was heating up it would of changed color somewhat, the author would of made note.


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## Physics Man (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> No the astroids do not burn the the atmosphere. Their exterior is hot and this heat is transfered but most of the damage is impact.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, your funny. Oxygen is not a fuel it is an oxidizer.



No most of the damage is over heating the atmopshere. A large asteroid might only leave a 100 km large creator not enough to destroy the planet. But by igniting the atmoshphere it can destory all life on earth.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> I am studying physics and completed my first year. I haven't taken chemistry in a while so I was wrong about it being a fuel. But it can be ignited, if you light a match near oxygen the oxygen will catch on fire. If the immesne blunt force a of a DBZ ki blast makes sparks or creates heat it would ignite the air around it. Look at goku's first Kamehameha it was only blunt power if the car was heating up it would of changed color somewhat, the author would of made note.



Question did you see the fire triangle?

PS I cover chemistry and physics


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## Physics Man (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Question did you see the fire triangle?
> 
> PS I cover chemistry and physics



No I did not while studying chemistry if


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## Physics Man (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Question did you see the fire triangle?
> 
> PS I cover chemistry and physics



No I did not


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## Supersentaiguy (May 26, 2011)

Ki Blast is screwed up. I've seen Ki used to resurrect things, out a fire, and blow people from the inside, create fire. Ki is like some sort of cosmic energy type of crap.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> No I did not


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## Lucifeller (May 26, 2011)

I can't provide you a link to nuclear physics mechanics because the damn things are TOO COMPLICATED to be explained with a handy triangle like regular combustion.

A very, very, very simplified explanation of them is 'if two atoms ram into each other violently enough, they mash together and the act releases immense amounts of heat', but that's a simpleton explanation that doesn't cover even a hundredth of the nuances of nuclear physics and how they work.

You can, if you're so inclined, scour scientific sites and your local library for more detailed information on the argument, but I'm not a teacher and stink at the whole 'explaining' stuff.

All I can tell you is nuclear fusion can release mass amounts of heat and ignite substances that aren't even supposed to catch fire thanks to it, and it doesn't require oxidants, just enough pressure to kickstart the fusion reaction and mantain it, which is why Jupiter is a failed star - it generates heat because it's huge enough to give off thermal energy thanks to minor fusion reactions, but it lacks the mass and gravitational crush necessary to kickstart it on a large scale and keep it going.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Lucifeller said:


> I can't provide you a link to nuclear physics mechanics because the damn things are TOO COMPLICATED to be explained with a handy triangle like regular combustion.
> 
> A very, very, very simplified explanation of them is 'if two atoms ram into each other violently enough, they mash together and the act releases immense amounts of heat', but that's a simpleton explanation that doesn't cover even a hundredth of the nuances of nuclear physics and how they work.
> 
> ...



Heat is not the same thing as fire.

Show the link!


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## Endless Mike (May 26, 2011)

Konohan, I have seen your posts on several threads so far, and the general trend seems to be that you never any any idea what the fuck you are talking about,


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Just because you don't know, don't assume the same about me


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## Endless Mike (May 26, 2011)

Mewtwo can beat Arceus lol


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Mewtwo can beat Arceus lol



Okay well I guess according to you kids he officially is but Iv'e seen him fight and he don't look that much more powerful than any other legendary. I didn't see him teleport heads off or erase their existence which everyone says he capable of.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 26, 2011)

He canonically is stated to have created the universe and 3 other top tier Pokemon.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

I take it you liked that.


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

The funny part is that Movie Arceus still crushes Movie Mewtwo despite how much they nerfed him in that movie.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> The funny part is that Movie Arceus still crushes Movie Mewtwo despite how much they nerfed him in that movie.



Not really Arceus gets injured, healed, then raped then gets angry and starts fighting with things he created and should be able to cut off from powers.

Mewtwo sits there swirling a drink while pokemon are fighting for their lives as a storm engulfs the world, then cuts of pokemon's powers, battles mew and finally erases memories and teleports everyone.


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Not really Arceus gets raped then gets angry and starts fighting with things he created and should be able to cut off from powers.
> 
> Mewtwo sits there swirling a drink while pokemon are fighting for their lives as a storm engulfs the world, then cuts of pokemon's powers, battles mew and finally erases memories and teleports everyone.



This changes the fact that Arceus would crush Mewtwo... how?


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> This changes the fact that Arceus would crush Mewtwo... how?



He probably would but Mewtwo still seems to dwarf his power


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> He probably would but Mewtwo still seems to dwarf his power



Arceus made a vortex of energy that dwarfed entire galaxies and caused two dimensions to collide. Just by waking up. How exactly does Mewtwo dwarf him in power?


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Arceus made a vortex of energy that dwarfed entire galaxies and caused two dimensions to collide. Just by waking up. How exactly does Mewtwo dwarf him in power?



Read what I said, Mewtwo may not be as powerful as him but he can actually use his powers. Arceus didn't even cut off other pokemon's powers. He created the trio and yet he could even reality warp them away.


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## kidgogeta (May 26, 2011)

Arceus is an abomination that should have never been created. Therefore Mewtwo wins. Infact, anything after Johto is a disgrace to Pokemon comparable to Dragon Ball GT.


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Read what I said, Mewtwo may not be as powerful as him but he can actually use his powers. Arceus didn't even cut off other pokemon's powers. He created the trio and yet he could even reality warp them away.



Arceus was really pissed off, so I think he can be forgiven for maintaining a Hulk Smash mindset. Unless you think he can give other Pokemon the ability to erase things yet not do it himself.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Arceus was really pissed off, so I think he can be forgiven for maintaining a Hulk Smash mindset. Unless you think he can give other Pokemon the ability to erase things yet not do it himself.



LOL he's meant to be GOD and he's being compared to hulk smash!

Mew seemed more celestial than this guy, hell even Mewtwo remained calmer than him!


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## Tranquil Fury (May 26, 2011)

He created 3 pokemon more powerful than Mewtwo and the universe, he knows how to use his powers if he can do all that. Mewtwo can't erase the powers of pokemon of comparable or higher level than him. The point we can all agree on is that Konohan123 is stupid, which he himself has done a good job of proving. We can conclude that Vegeta can't tank every nuclear bomb ever made, Konohan123 keeps repeating the same points not countering anything.

EDIT The point went over your head eh?


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> He created 3 pokemon more powerful than Mewtwo and the universe, he knows how to use his powers if he can do all that. Mewtwo can't erase the powers of pokemon of comparable or higher level than him. The point we can all agree on is that Konohan123 is stupid, which he himself has done a good job of proving. We can conclude that Vegeta can't tank every nuclear bomb ever made, Konohan123 keeps repeating the same points not countering anything.
> 
> EDIT The point went over your head eh?



Because people like you are not answering the question. 

Answer this fucking question - If he's so great why couldn't he lock off their powers? They might be more powerful than Mewtwo but surely they're not as powerful as Arceus. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Go suck his gold encrusted dick!


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> Answer this fucking question - If he's so great why couldn't he lock off their powers? They might be more powerful than Mewtwo but surely they're not as powerful as Arceus.



Because smashing them repeatedly until they stopped moving proved to be just as effective? Arceus had multi-galaxy level energy manipulation and enough power to move dimensions around too but didn't bother using them against the dragons.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Because smashing them repeatedly until they stopped moving proved to be just as effective? Arceus had multi-galaxy level energy manipulation and enough power to move dimensions around too but didn't bother using them against the dragons.



If that were Mewtwo and he had that power he would look at them, eyes glow blue, snap his fingers and they would be gone. Then snap his fingers again and everyone he wanted dead would be or everything wanted destroyed would be.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 26, 2011)

You admit they were stronger than Mewtwo yet Mewtwo can suddenly make beings stronger than him gone? Why did'nt he do this to Mew his equal? Stop, this thread has gone off track as it is.


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> If that were Mewtwo and he had that power he would look at them, eyes glow blue, snap his fingers and they would be gone. Then snap his fingers again and everyone he wanted dead would be or everything wanted destroyed would be.



And that's why the only thing he and Mew did in their battle was slam into each other and fire energy blasts. 

What are you even arguing at this point?


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> And that's why the only thing he and Mew did in their battle was slam into each other and fire energy blasts.
> 
> What are you even arguing at this point?



That when fighting against weaker opponents pokemon like Mew and Mewtwo look almighty.

But Arceus looks like supersayian zebra flying around! Hitting others with energy blasts.


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> That when fighting against weaker opponents pokemon like Mew and Mewtwo look almighty.
> 
> But Arceus looks like supersayian zebra flying around! Hitting others with energy blasts.



Hooray for subjective style over substance idiocy. Arceus curbstomped the rulers of time and space. That's more almighty than Mewtwo will ever get.


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## KaiserWombat (May 26, 2011)

Mewtwo's not even the most powerful Pokemon of its tier, honestly: Rayquaza has it beat in destructive capacity, speed and likely durability also.

Hell, Pokemon _*outside*_ of its tier (looking at you Darkrai) have the capacity of eliminating it through hax abilities: you simply cannot the same thing about God and his guardians of time, space, antimatter, intelligence, emotion and willpower


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

KaiserWombat said:


> Mewtwo's not even the most powerful Pokemon of its tier, honestly: Rayquaza has it beat in destructive capacity, speed and likely durability also.
> 
> Hell, Pokemon _*outside*_ of its tier (looking at you Darkrai) have the capacity of eliminating it through hax abilities: you simply cannot the same thing about God and his guardians of time, space, antimatter, intelligence, emotion and willpower



He's meant to be God and he can't do that, I thought he fucking created existence!


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> He's meant to be God and he can't do that, I thought he fucking created existence!



He did. Now stop whining.

So anyway, are we all in agreement that nukes kill Vegeta dead?


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> He did. Now stop whining.
> 
> So anyway, are we all in agreement that nukes kill Vegeta dead?



1. No he didn't he he started flying round like a zebra on steroids.

2. Yes they do.


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## Endless Mike (May 26, 2011)

This guy is so getting a wiki article....


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 26, 2011)

konohan123 said:


> 1. No he didn't he he started flying round like a zebra on steroids.



Okay, so we're just going to ignore the movie outright telling us that Arceus created Pokemon universe. Good to know.


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## Artful Lurker (May 26, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Okay, so we're just going to ignore the movie outright telling us that Arceus created Pokemon universe. Good to know.



My point - I know he's the best but he sure don't seem like it!


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## Physics Man (May 26, 2011)

First reality warping>>>>>>>>>> Mewtwo. Second how did we get from Nuclear bomb vs Vegeta, to ki blast debate, to nuclear physics and now to pokemon:


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## KaiserWombat (May 26, 2011)

Because this is the OBD

And nostalgiafags trying to undermine my love for the originals of a classic videogame franchise


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## Supersentaiguy (May 26, 2011)

omg this thread got F. derailed.


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