# Who is the Weakest Yonko



## Zero (Jan 22, 2020)

out of Kaido, Big Mom, Shanks, and Blackbeard as of this moment.


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## Silver (Jan 22, 2020)

As much as people meme on BM she did clash equally with Kaidou and 'fought' for two days without losing, so she did prove herself in my eyes. Shanks and old WB showed us something similar. 

BB is the only one that has not clashed with another Yonko and is still pretty fresh, half their bounty too, currently he is portrayed to be the weakest but that will change soon enough.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gianfi (Jan 22, 2020)

BB is the mosr recent addition so him


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## oiety (Jan 22, 2020)

BB. Don't think Big Mom mentioned him during her "if I had Elbaf, I could have beaten Shanks, Kaido, and even Whitebeard" speech. Plus the rest have clashing feats with other Yonko, i.e Shanks and WB sky split, Shanks stopping Kaido somehow, BM and Kaido sky split, and not even mentioning Rocks days. Dipping out on Shanks and then dipping out on Akainu, while not unreasonable decisions do not make for "good feats."

Its prob Kaido>BM>=Shanks>BB atm, but obviously he'll be strongest in a month's time in universe.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Djomla (Jan 22, 2020)

Probably Teach as he is still improving. But Disney Grandma once Teach does improve.


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## Steven (Jan 22, 2020)

BB for now


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## Zero (Jan 22, 2020)

I agree, Blackbeard may possibly be stronger than Big Mom right now, but we will have to see how much stronger he’s gotten after Marineford with his abilities, if he can go up against the likes of Kaido strength characters.


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## Ruse (Jan 22, 2020)

BB since he’s lacking in showings compared to the others.


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## Mob (Jan 22, 2020)

BB is the strongest, Kaido/BM take second to last and last place

Reactions: Like 1


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## charles101 (Jan 22, 2020)

oiety said:


> BB. Don't think Big Mom mentioned him during her "if I had Elbaf, I could have beaten Shanks, Kaido, and even Whitebeard" speech. Plus the rest have clashing feats with other Yonko, i.e Shanks and WB sky split, Shanks stopping Kaido somehow, BM and Kaido sky split, and not even mentioning Rocks days. Dipping out on Shanks and then dipping out on Akainu, while not unreasonable decisions do not make for "good feats."
> 
> Its prob Kaido>BM>=Shanks>BB atm, but obviously he'll be strongest in a month's time in universe.



To be fair, she was talking about past, when WB was a Yonkou and BB was some no name.

But as you said, other Yonkou got some hype from other top tiers, while BB is just standing there. Kaido and Big Mom were praised like there's no tomorow by Sengoku, Shanks got his "he has awesome crew" + fights with Mihawk, while noone seem to give crap about Blackbeard (yet). All they are saying is "well, he's getting stronger". So I do think that other Yonkou (top tiers in general) acknowledge him as legit Emperor, but still someone who's bellow veterans.

Also I'm not a huge fan of putting Shanks above Kaido or even Big Mom, just because he's important to the story. Same with Dragon, but it's offtopic.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2020)




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## Unicornsilovethem (Jan 22, 2020)

Luffy


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## Mob (Jan 22, 2020)

Teach has the most votes? what is this blasphemy
Fatty had 2 whole years to catch up and surpass the rest of his yonko colleagues, him standing anywhere below oldbeard level at this point of story would be bullshit since we know he will  be a monster who will reach and surpass legendary powerhouses like prime WB and Roger and he cant do that kind of jump from weakest yonko to the strongest pirate ever in a arc or two when from in universe perspective whole arc duration from start to finish  usually takes few days worth of time at best. Everyone assumes he is a weak ass because he isn't flexing on wg like Shanks or taking any action against other yonkos like Kaido but fail to realize that it is in his character to hide his power, he  appears weak intentionally, he is basically a wolf in a sheep clothing, but oh boy once the facade falls down and he finally makes makes his move to Raftel

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenBull956 (Jan 22, 2020)

Big Mom or Teach , don't see Shanks as weakest because Oda have been treating him very good unlike BM

Big Mom's feat of equalling Kaido for 3 days is good , but not enough for me to place her above Shanks/Teach , because she was definitely fighting Base Kaido

Teach may not get Awakenings yet , but if he was actually targeting Shanks in chapter 956 , he probably does have .

if has Awakenings already then he's the strongest , Teach > Kaido > Shanks > BM


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## RossellaFiamingo (Jan 22, 2020)

Teach


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## MO (Jan 23, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>


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## Corax (Jan 23, 2020)

Teach has no post TS feats. Weakest by feats and portrayal is BM.


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## Lyren (Jan 23, 2020)

GreenBull956 said:


> Teach may not get Awakenings yet , but if he was actually targeting Shanks in chapter 956 ,


What makes you think that? As if the marines would chase Shanks right away while 2 yonko allied themselves so Blackbeard should hurry lol ?


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## GreenBull956 (Jan 23, 2020)

Lyren said:


> What makes you think that? As if the marines would chase Shanks right away while 2 yonko allied themselves so Blackbeard should hurry lol ?


I don't think Teach went after Shanks , i think it's possible .

VIZ - Teach said : "If the Navy is going to take it... i might as well claim the prize!"

So he was going after the "prize" because Marines was trying to take something , i think it's possible he was trying to take Shanks out because whenever the Emperors were trying to meet regardless of actual intention from the Emperor(s) , Marines tried or wanted to stop them

- when Shanks tried to meet Whitebeard , Marines send numerous ships to stop them from meeting ( but RHP broke through them )
- when Big Mom was on the move to Wano ( Kaido's territory ) Kizaru wanted to intercept her , but stopped by Akainu because he didn't know Wano's Military Force power lvl

So maybe Teach wanted to use Marines' absence of power ( because Marines were trying to take "it" ) to attack Shanks


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## Beast (Jan 23, 2020)

It can only be BM.


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## Mercurial (Jan 23, 2020)

Who has the worst low end feats? Big Mom, by far, her low end feats weren't just bad, they were embarassing. 
Who has the less impressive high end feats? Big Mom, her best is fighting against Base Kaido, which any other Yonko could do as well.

So Meme. 

Teach is going to be the strongest in a in-universe short matter of time, he cannot be the weakest now. Also he had two years to grow his powers since the moment he ran away from Akainu. In OP characters become stronger in weeks, if not days, so.


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## Turrin (Jan 23, 2020)

I think Shanks is the weakest because he is the only Yonko who is handicapped his lost arm. However i expect when Shanks goes to fight Teach or whoever his final enemy is, he will reveal he has some hidden weapon or power that will compensate for this in some form. So right now he’s the weakest but I expect he’ll be much stronger later on


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## A Optimistic (Jan 23, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> Who has the less impressive high end feats? Big Mom, her best is fighting against Base Kaido, which any other Yonko could do as well.



You downplay Big Mom's impressive feat of stalemating Kaido for two days by highlighting that Kaido was in base, but also simultaneously ignore that Big Mom was missing Prom and Zeus during that fight. Also I'm not sure how Big Mom clashing with Base Kaido for two days is somehow worse than Shanks clashing with Whitebeard _once_ while Whitebeard wasn't even using his fruit?

Your obvious bias against her is showing. There's no way she has the less impressive high end feats at the moment.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Canute87 (Jan 23, 2020)

People thought Teach was stronger than Big Mom?


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## Gianfi (Jan 23, 2020)

A Optimistic said:


> You downplay Big Mom's impressive feat of stalemating Kaido for two days by highlighting that Kaido was in base, but also simultaneously ignore that Big Mom was missing Prom and Zeus during that fight. Also I'm not sure how Big Mom clashing with Base Kaido for two days is somehow worse than Shanks clashing with Whitebeard _once_ while Whitebeard wasn't even using his fruit?
> 
> Your obvious bias against her is showing. There's no way she has the less impressive high end feats at the moment.


Some people just feel insecure when they find out a strong woman can hold her own against a strong man

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Jan 24, 2020)

in terms of what I think : 

Shanks > Kaido ~ Big Mom > Teach

in terms of canon as of now 

Kaido ~ Big Mom >~ Shanks > Teach

Reactions: Like 3


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## CaptainCommander (Jan 24, 2020)

Luffy if ya count him

Otherwise Teach for now


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## Trueno (Jan 24, 2020)

Technically, Kaido is unbeatable in a 1 v 1, but we're talking about pirates who don't play fair and Marines who work together... Also, Kaido actually has been captured the most out of any of the Yonko.. So he's pretty much the weakest out of them if it's not a straight up fair fight.

Big Mom was only weak when she didn't eat and was able to keep up with Kaido for quite some time, so she's very close to his level or she might have been his equal due to her homies giving her a bump in stats... and then we also don't know what really went on up there knowing Oda's tendency for jokes and the punchline most older viewers got. Pretty sure it was a special fight though, I can't deny that.

Shanks and Blackbeard however are interesting. Blackbeard is the only known character to have wounded Shanks (without him allowing it)... and that was pre-Gura Gura and pre-Mera Mera.

I'll say that Shanks is an offensive force to be reckoned with, but he doesn't have any huge durability feats like Kaido's scales, Big Mom's aberrant body, and Blackbeard's "strange body"... so he clearly compensates with his crew of top tier guys that are probably all 1st Commander level.


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## Red Admiral (Jan 24, 2020)

yuLeopard said:


> Technically, Kaido is unbeatable in a 1 v 1, but we're talking about pirates who don't play fair and Marines who work together... Also, Kaido actually has been captured the most out of any of the Yonko.. So he's pretty much the weakest out of them if it's not a straight up fair fight.
> 
> Big Mom was only weak when she didn't eat and was able to keep up with Kaido for quite some time, so she's very close to his level or she might have been his equal due to her homies giving her a bump in stats... and then we also don't know what really went on up there knowing Oda's tendency for jokes and the punchline most older viewers got. Pretty sure it was a special fight though, I can't deny that.
> 
> ...



in one piece ... strongest people have strongest crew ...

it don't means the other side 

Xebec
Roger
Luffy

all had and will have the strongest crew of their era ... not cause they lack but HAVE power


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## Trueno (Jan 24, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> in one piece ... strongest people have strongest crew ...
> 
> it don't means the other side
> 
> ...


 Whitebeard's crew tied with Rogers, Roger teamed up with and clashed with Garp.. and most of the Yonko are equals


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## Red Admiral (Jan 24, 2020)

yuLeopard said:


> Whitebeard's crew tied with Rogers, Roger teamed up with and clashed with Garp.. and most of the Yonko are equals



16 armies of WB Pirate got low diff by Teach ...

so it's MORE THAN CLEAR the Roger Pirates didn't go all out 

Yonko are equal in powers give and take a bit

but "having the strongest crew don't means you needed the power the most"

unless Kaido himself have the very same dream ... to be the one with strongest crew

Reactions: Like 1


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## nobody (Jan 24, 2020)

It's definitely Luffy.


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## bil02 (Jan 25, 2020)

Teach is featless and has got no more hype or portrayal than the other yonkou so he is by default the weakest and i think he is by a good margin.
Since the beginning of postskip,no yonkou have given a shit about him showing they don't consider him on their level yet.
Whether he becomes overpowered in the future is irrelevant as right now all indicates teach to be the weakest.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 25, 2020)

Teach is gonna be PK-tier real soon, he cant still be the weakest

the Snitch is crippled, has shit dura and has no DF, he is for sure the weakest


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## Mob (Jan 25, 2020)

OL mentality in a nutshell
Give Zoro who was ≤ YC3 a new sword and he will jump instantly into fm/low top tier weight class in a matter of days
Give Teach who was YC3 level the most powerful paramecia devil fruit in the world and two years of training in the new world and guy is still chump among top tiers


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 25, 2020)

Yami Teach was > YC3

in fact he may have been YC1 lvl (at least in power and durability)


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## Zero (Jan 25, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> People thought Teach was stronger than Big Mom?


It's defiantly possible right, he's had a good amount of time to master his two devil fruits.  He could well be the weakest Yonko right now or even the Strongest. However with the information we have now he should be the weakest with the exception of Luffy.


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## Canute87 (Jan 25, 2020)

FlyingBison said:


> *It's defiantly possible right, he's had a good amount of time to master his two devil fruits. * He could well be the weakest Yonko right now or even the Strongest. However with the information we have now he should be the weakest with the exception of Luffy.



In 2 Years?


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## Zero (Jan 25, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> In 2 Years?


Sure, I mean he was able to fight with the Gura Gura fruit right after getting it. Two Years should be enough training to control the fruit fairly well. However we don't where he stands still compared to other Yonkos, but It's not that far-fetched to believe he'd be stronger than Big Mom by now.


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## Canute87 (Jan 25, 2020)

FlyingBison said:


> Sure, I mean he was able to fight with the Gura Gura fruit right after getting it. Two Years should be enough training to control the fruit fairly well. However we don't where he stands still compared to other Yonkos, but It's not that far-fetched to believe he'd be stronger than Big Mom by now.



Well his fight with shanks is coming soon so no point in trying to believe that growth is realistic especially seeing that luffy is going to fight him too.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 26, 2020)

Big Mom, with that portrayal man it's hard to find a yonk below her

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Jan 27, 2020)

FlyingBison said:


> Sure, I mean he was able to fight with the Gura Gura fruit right after getting it. Two Years should be enough training to control the fruit fairly well. However we don't where he stands still compared to other Yonkos, but It's not that far-fetched to believe he'd be stronger than Big Mom by now.


By that logic how many yrs has big mom had her fruit??


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## Quipchaque (Jan 27, 2020)

Big Mom.


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## Gledania (Jan 27, 2020)

MF version of Whitebeard. 

Prior to that he was the strongest.


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## Zero (Jan 27, 2020)

Neko White said:


> By that logic how many yrs has big mom had her fruit??


I don't know, but he has two fruit advantage so I assume he'll be stronger than Big Mom.


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## nmwn93 (Jan 27, 2020)

FlyingBison said:


> I don't know, but he has two fruit advantage so I assume he'll be stronger than Big Mom.


Nah i don't think so. All intents n purposes i think bn has one of the most diverse devil fruit in the series


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## MO (Jan 27, 2020)

A Optimistic said:


> You downplay Big Mom's impressive feat of stalemating Kaido for two days by highlighting that Kaido was in base, but also simultaneously ignore that Big Mom was missing Prom and Zeus during that fight. Also I'm not sure how Big Mom clashing with Base Kaido for two days is somehow worse than Shanks clashing with Whitebeard _once_ while Whitebeard wasn't even using his fruit?
> 
> Your obvious bias against her is showing. There's no way she has the less impressive high end feats at the moment.


You better Stan.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 27, 2020)

Big Momma > the Snitch
@MO


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## Draco Bolton (Jan 27, 2020)

Yeah the racist snitch will be the weakest when Teach will growing in strengh.


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## Tornado (Jan 30, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Teach is gonna be PK-tier real soon, he cant still be the weakest
> 
> the Snitch is crippled, has shit dura and has no DF, he is for sure the weakest


Random citizen 1:


> "Did you hear?! Blackbeard defeated Red hair after 15 days of fighting! The whole country <unknown> sank into the sea!"



Random citizen 2:


> "No way, I can't believe Red hair was defeated! That means Blackbeard is the new World's Strongest Man! Nobody can stand against him now!"


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## Kylo Ren (Jan 30, 2020)

I'm fckin willing to bet my Username to your desire that Shanks will not get defeated by Blackbeard. Any challenger steps up. Who will dare?


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## stealthblack (Jan 30, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> I'm fckin willing to bet my Username to your desire that Shanks will not get defeated by Blackbeard. Any challenger steps up. Who will dare?


shanks is better suited to fight blackbeard, because with the other yonkous BB can cancel their df power with his darkness fruit.

but bb has no reason to fight shanks unless shanks was a fruit user.


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## Gledania (Jan 30, 2020)

Draco Bolton said:


> Yeah the *racist* snitch



??


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## charles101 (Jan 30, 2020)

Gledania said:


> ??



Only Yonkou who has only humans in his crew.

Kaido has King and Jack for example.
WB has that one sharkboy.
BM - no comment xd
BB - Sanjuan is a Giant, right?
Even Roger had some fishman there.


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## Gledania (Jan 30, 2020)

charles101 said:


> Only Yonkou who has only humans in his crew.
> 
> Kaido has King and Jack for example.
> WB has that one sharkboy.
> ...




Add sexist to the list.

Wait... oda said shanks is a representation of himself


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## GreenBull956 (Jan 30, 2020)

charles101 said:


> Only Yonkou who has only humans in his crew.
> 
> Kaido has King and Jack for example.
> WB has that one sharkboy.
> ...


Shanks has that crew member who has a monkey


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## trance (Jan 30, 2020)

prolly teach

if not then meme

differences are minimal tho


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## charles101 (Jan 30, 2020)

GreenBull956 said:


> Shanks has that crew who has a monkey



So you're assuming it's a Minkman or something? xd It's about races, species :v


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## Draco Bolton (Jan 30, 2020)

Gledania said:


> ??





charles101 said:


> Only Yonkou who has only humans in his crew.
> 
> Kaido has King and Jack for example.
> WB has that one sharkboy.
> ...


Add No devil fruit users in his crew. He doesn't accept different person (and it was very hard for him to be with a fishmen in Roger crew).

He also seems to be a great friend with Gorosei/CD and we know they love enslave inferior races.




"You know, Luffy, with great power comes great Freedom. Gol D Roger called it "The human burden." Myself, I just call it as I see it: the responsibility of the master to discipline the servant."
Shanks looks directly at the camera.
"The fishmen, the okamas, the giants...It's our responsibility to civilize them. And if we can't? Then they shall dangle from the adam tree. The Day of the Rope is near, Luffy. We'll have every fishman under the sea dead or in chains in 10 years, and may God have me lose my arm to a weak ass seaking this very night if I'm wrong. God bless the World Government Gorosei party."


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Jan 30, 2020)

Oh snap!


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## J (Jan 30, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> I'm fckin willing to bet my Username to your desire that Shanks will not get defeated by Blackbeard. Any challenger steps up. Who will dare?



I would but "Kylo Ren" is already pretty terrible name so there'd be no point in changing it. I joke. Kinda. 



Draco Bolton said:


> Stuff



I thought you guys were making a 4Kids reference, cuz according to 4kids Shanks is apparently Irish but alas...


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## Flame (Jan 30, 2020)

People are trippin putting BB on the bottom of their list  



Gledania said:


> ??


stop being racist


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## ImpalerDragon (Jan 30, 2020)

Blackbeard is. He is hunting after devilfruits so he have need for the strenght to stay competitve.


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## Steven (Jan 30, 2020)

Flame said:


> stop being racist


Gaydania not being racist


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Jan 31, 2020)

Too soon to say. We haven't really seen what Blackbeard is capable off after the timeskip and we've never even seen Shanks engage in a real fight. From a narrative perspective it would be strange if Blackbeard and Shanks where the weakest one since one is Luffy's dark mirror image and the other his idol. Big Mom gets less hype then Kaido so I'm going to assume she's the weakest one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2020)

starts with k


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## jesusus (Jan 31, 2020)

Post time skip Whitebeard.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Zero (Jan 31, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> starts with k


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Feb 1, 2020)

Uh, maybe BM.


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## Red Admiral (Feb 1, 2020)

Shanks and Teach are the real end game top players 

save the best for the last is a simple rule

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Feb 2, 2020)

Dragon Kaido is the weakest

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Feb 2, 2020)

well after recent eve.. ah teach. but then kaido. yeahh, i know tier specialist..


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## Ludi (Feb 2, 2020)

Sadly BB probably still, however he also is the only really progressing one, so hopefully he becomes the strongest of these 4 next saga.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tornado (Feb 4, 2020)

5 votes for kaido, used to be zero last week. Looks like hes lost some respect.... 

Shanks > Kaido, due to power creep. The "bet on kaido in 1v1" is humbug


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## Quipchaque (Feb 4, 2020)

Tornado said:


> 5 votes for kaido, used to be zero last week. Looks like hes lost some respect....
> 
> Shanks > Kaido, due to power creep. The "bet on kaido in 1v1" is humbug



Eh those same peeps will backtrack immediately once Kaido fights in this Arc. You can count on that.

Anyway it has to be Big Mom or Blackbeard. Anyone who says Kaido or Shanks has some serious bias going on.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Feb 4, 2020)

I doubt that much will change regarding Kaido. He will be beaten soon. Of course he will beat or may be even kill a lot of scabbards/SN,but this won't be impressive after 970. Though he isn't the weakest yonko anyway power creep or not.


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## Quipchaque (Feb 4, 2020)

Corax said:


> I doubt that much will change regarding Kaido. He will be beaten soon. Of course he will beat or may be even kill a lot of scabbards/SN,but this won't be impressive after 970. Though he isn't the weakest yonko anyway power creep or not.



That is rather premature. Before this chapter everyone was certain Goden only injured window cause of nakama power etc and maybe that window beat him up badly before that... But imagine like what happens when Window suddenly uses hardening on his whole body and tanks sth like Ashura and king Kong Gun together? Or when he uses cotc and knocks out almost all supernova, no sells gamma knife etc? I doubt that this wouldn't sway anyone. Besides Luffy will most likely have to surpass all the admirals to win this one and that alone would already add a lot of hype on its own.


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## Turrin (Feb 4, 2020)

Kaidou or Big Mom is the weakest it’s just simple power progression. Shanks and Teach at worst are weaker now marginally and will be stronger the moment this arc ends and they actually fight. Ether way doesn’t matter Kaidou and Mom will be the weakest Yonko by the end of the series

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Feb 5, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is rather premature. Before this chapter everyone was certain Goden only injured window cause of nakama power etc and maybe that window beat him up badly before that... But imagine like what happens when Window suddenly uses hardening on his whole body and tanks sth like Ashura and king Kong Gun together? Or when he uses cotc and knocks out almost all supernova, no sells gamma knife etc? I doubt that this wouldn't sway anyone. Besides Luffy will most likely have to surpass all the admirals to win this one and that alone would already add a lot of hype on its own.


He won't face any top tiers in the final battle (and he did and couldn't beat nerfed BM). Not like he will tank full rage Gura or full rage Meigo in this arc. Yes SN and scabbards will have troubles and likely all will be KO/dead in the end,but this won't tell us much.


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## Quipchaque (Feb 5, 2020)

Corax said:


> *He won't face any top tiers in the final battle* (and he did and couldn't beat nerfed BM). Not like he will tank full rage Gura or full rage Meigo in this arc. Yes SN and scabbards will have troubles and likely all will be KO/dead in the end,but this won't tell us much.





You believe Luffy, Zoro and Sanji still arent top tiers now? I would argue Luffy has been one since Dressrosa and at latest in WCI while Zoro and Sanji became one in this Arc. Heck I would even go as far as to say that Luffy surpassed the admirals now and Zoro rivals them. Remember the story is almost over and they are destined to grow into the higher echolon not just barely scratch it.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Corax (Feb 5, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You believe Luffy, Zoro and Sanji still arent top tiers now? I would argue Luffy has been one since Dressrosa and at latest in WCI while Zoro and Sanji became one in this Arc. Heck I would even go as far as to say that Luffy surpassed the admirals now and Zoro rivals them. Remember the story is almost over and they are destined to grow into the higher echolon not just barely scratch it.


They still have at least 3 arcs (next,Raftel and Final war). They might end this arc between FM and top tier,but it is still too early for them to become top. Unless of course at Raftel they will be god tier (though this is illogical,since god Imu won't face them before the end of the final war).


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## Quipchaque (Feb 5, 2020)

Corax said:


> They still have at least 3 arcs (next,Raftel and Final war). They might end this arc between FM and top tier,but it is still too early for them to become top. Unless of course at Raftel they will be god tier (though this is illogical,since god Imu won't face them before the end of the final war).



They are taking a Yonko down bro. And arguably the strongest at that. You think that is something a bunch of high tiers can accomplish? My goodness that is legit funny. Luffy has already outdone most top tiers in a lot of feats and Zoro and Sanji scale close to him. You need to move on from your favourite characters and accept that they are about to surpass most of them.


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## Corax (Feb 5, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> They are taking a Yonko down bro. And arguably the strongest at that. You think that is something a bunch of high tiers can accomplish? My goodness that is legit funny. Luffy has already outdone most top tiers in a lot of feats and Zoro and Sanji scale close to him. You need to move on from your favourite characters and accept that they are about to surpass most of them.


They can't surpass them so fast. If Shanks/Mihawk are top tiers for example,no way end of Wano Luffy/Zoro will reach their lvl. Two arcs later may be,but not now. 3 FM+ can beat one top tier,because why not?


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## Eliyua23 (Feb 5, 2020)

I’d say Big Mom or Kaido even if you think it’s BB we know he’s getting stronger after this arc anyways and will be the 2nd strongest character in the verse behind Luffy.


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## Red Admiral (Feb 6, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Kaidou and Mom will be the weakest Yonko by the end of the series



so true


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## Dunno (Feb 6, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You believe Luffy, Zoro and Sanji still arent top tiers now? I would argue Luffy has been one since Dressrosa and at latest in WCI while Zoro and Sanji became one in this Arc. Heck I would even go as far as to say that Luffy surpassed the admirals now and Zoro rivals them. Remember the story is almost over and they are destined to grow into the higher echolon not just barely scratch it.


Do you believe a top tier could low diff another top tier?


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## Zero (Feb 6, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You believe Luffy, Zoro and Sanji still arent top tiers now? I would argue Luffy has been one since Dressrosa and at latest in WCI while Zoro and Sanji became one in this Arc. Heck I would even go as far as to say that Luffy surpassed the admirals now and Zoro rivals them. Remember the story is almost over and they are destined to grow into the higher echolon not just barely scratch it.


Luffy can barely pull wins off against a Yonko Commander without plot intervention.
He got one shotted by Kaido. (Admirals can't get one shotted by Kaido)
Zoro/Sanji are not top tiers, how would Zoro even be on par with an Admiral let alone Sanji?
The Strawhats are not very strong right now compared to Top Tiers.
Was that a troll post?


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## Quipchaque (Feb 6, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Do you believe a top tier could low diff another top tier?



Do you believe a high tier could low diff another high tier? That logic doesn't work mate.



Corax said:


> They can't surpass them so fast. If Shanks/Mihawk are top tiers for example,no way end of Wano Luffy/Zoro will reach their lvl. Two arcs later may be,but not now. 3 FM+ can beat one top tier,because why not?



Why...? And what do you mean "so fast"? It's been like 5-6 arcs since the timeskip and they are not even low top tier apparantly? That is just a bad joke and serious underestimation. :/


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## Red Admiral (Feb 6, 2020)

if people want to change side , they need to do it for just reasons 

I said Shanks was strongest before
I say Shanks is strongest now

but 970 is NO REASON for changing side



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## Zoro20 (Feb 8, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Do you believe a high tier could low diff another high tier? That logic doesn't work mate.
> 
> 
> 
> Why...? And what do you mean "so fast"? It's been like 5-6 arcs since the timeskip and they are not even low top tier apparantly? That is just a bad joke and serious underestimation. :/


for Zoro and Sanji they still not close to the top tier level 
But i agree that Luffy has to be  close to the top tier if he want to have any hope to fight Kaidou and be relevant enough with team work to defeat him


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## Patrick (Feb 9, 2020)

Currently I'm pretty sure it's Kaido >= Big Mom > Shanks > Teach but Teach will almost certainly end up the strongest and Shanks has a good case to also end up higher.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 11, 2020)

I mean if we’re being real, it can’t be BB and it can’t be Shanks. Blackbeard is obviously going to be the strongest, since he’s final villain material and there’s not much time left for him to grow so we can assume that he’s almost at his final power if he’s not already. Shanks is expected to go at it with him and we can obviously expect him to showcase something that puts him at higher level then what we currently know.

So from a EOS standpoint, those two can’t be the weakest.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Red Admiral (Feb 11, 2020)

sanninme rikudo said:


> I mean if we’re being real, it can’t be BB and it can’t be Shanks. Blackbeard is obviously going to be the strongest, since he’s final villain material and there’s not much time left for him to grow so we can assume that he’s almost at his final power if he’s not already. Shanks is expected to go at it with him and we can obviously expect him to showcase something that puts him at higher level then what we currently know.
> 
> So from a EOS standpoint, those two can’t be the weakest.



time won't apply to Teach
in less than one year he went form low high tier to low top tier by eating 2 DF
a 3rd DF can give him what he needs

by if we are talking end of story ... yes ... you are right


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## Turrin (Feb 12, 2020)

Probably Kaidou is going to end up the weakest; he’s going down first and even if BM goes down alongside him; I have a feeling that there will always be a case that BM could have done better if she was younger or had access to her full assortment of homies, while these excuses won’t apply the Kaidou.


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## Fujitora (Feb 12, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I think Shanks is the weakest because he is the only Yonko who is handicapped his lost arm. However i expect when Shanks goes to fight Teach or whoever his final enemy is, he will reveal he has some hidden weapon or power that will compensate for this in some form. So right now he’s the weakest but I expect he’ll be much stronger later on


I don’t think you understand that being the weakest yonko or strongest doesn’t mean you mid diff or lost mid diff to the rest. So you saying he will reveal something and become much stronger implies that in your mind the strongest yonko mid diffs or high diffs the rest which is not the case. All yonko are about equal, there is just a small marging if any between each of them. It’s still extreme diff.
And kaido going down first means nothing? If he goes down to a huge group but then the others fall to one or two person how do that make the former weaker? I always found that argument asinine to be honest. Context always matters.


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## Turrin (Feb 12, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> I don’t think you understand that being the weakest yonko or strongest doesn’t mean you mid diff or lost mid diff to the rest. So you saying he will reveal something and become much stronger implies that in your mind the strongest yonko mid diffs or high diffs the rest which is not the case. All yonko are about equal, there is just a small marging if any between each of them. It’s still extreme diff.
> And kaido going down first means nothing? If he goes down to a huge group but then the others fall to one or two person how do that make the former weaker? I always found that argument asinine to be honest. Context always matters.


I see no proof that the Yonko are all about Equal. Kaidou is about to loose to Luffy thanks to his Haki abilities. Shanks likely will still greatly exceed Luffy in Haki skill even after this arc; so him beating Kaidou easier then Luffy; goes without saying. If Luffy beats Kaidou with extreme diff Shanks is doing it with High diff or likely lower. And guess what happens when Kaidou attacked him; Kaidou ended up cucking down to Shanks and Shanks arrived to MF without any major injuries; further supporting Shanks can probably mid diff Kaidou; if not worse.

And no your idea that one top tier can’t mid/low diff another is not a thing in the manga otherwise can you show me a statement saying such from Oda? Realistically every main enemy is vastly surpassed by the main enemies of the next arc; that’s why Luffy who was Katakuri level got one shot by Kaidou; even though you Top Tier stans have been saying for years YFM were also top tier and couldn’t be low diffed by Yonko or Admirals


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## trance (Feb 12, 2020)

>further supporting Shanks can probably mid diff Kaidou; if not worse


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## Fujitora (Feb 12, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I see no proof that the Yonko are all about Equal. Kaidou is about to loose to Luffy thanks to his Haki abilities. Shanks likely will still greatly exceed Luffy in Haki skill even after this arc; so him beating Kaidou easier then Luffy; goes without saying. If Luffy beats Kaidou with extreme diff Shanks is doing it with High diff or likely lower. And guess what happens when Kaidou attacked him; *Kaidou ended up cucking down to Shanks and Shanks arrived to MF without any major injuries; further supporting Shanks can probably mid diff Kaidou; if not worse.*
> 
> And no your idea that one top tier can’t mid/low diff another is not a thing in the manga otherwise can you show me a statement saying such from Oda? Realistically every main enemy is vastly surpassed by the main enemies of the next arc; that’s why Luffy who was Katakuri level got one shot by Kaidou; even though you Top Tier stans have been saying for years YFM were also top tier and couldn’t be low diffed by Yonko or Admirals


No proof? You serious? WB and shanks clashed, the sky split in two. Kaido and Bm clashed, the sky and sea split in two and after a day or two of fighting no winner was decided. And theyve been in a deadlock for years, luffy is not soloing kaido. Why is it so hard for you to understand that beating someone as a group and then going on to beat another person solo does not detract from the first person getting beat?
Oh shit, i didnt read that last part. My bad, i thought you were an intelligent human being, turns out youre just an immature troll.Carry on, this conversation is over.
Not once in the mangas history have we heard of a top tier mid diffing another you dumbass. Every instance was an equal clash, taking 10 days to decide the winner in an extreme diff fight, or 2 top tiers tag teaming one. If a top tier mid diffs another then the other isnt a top tier. And omg, magellan came before ceasar and doffy. Tell me, how is ceasar massively outclassing him? And doffy for that matter you absolute ugh, you know what im not gonna bother insulting you. Probably had that happen to you your entire life. Enel came before lucci, yet enel would probably win as he had better speed feats and destructive power.You my friend, are either a troll or 10 years old.Im done answering you.


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## Turrin (Feb 12, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> No proof? You serious? WB and shanks clashed, the sky split in two. Kaido and Bm clashed, the sky and sea split in two and after a day or two of fighting no winner was decided. And theyve been in a deadlock for years, luffy is not soloing kaido. Why is it so hard for you to understand that beating someone as a group and then going on to beat another person solo does not detract from the first person getting beat?
> Oh shit, i didnt read that last part. My bad, i thought you were an intelligent human being, turns out youre just an immature troll.Carry on, this conversation is over.
> Not once in the mangas history have we heard of a top tier mid diffing another you dumbass. Every instance was an equal clash, taking 10 days to decide the winner in an extreme diff fight, or 2 top tiers tag teaming one. If a top tier mid diffs another then the other isnt a top tier. And omg, magellan came before ceasar and doffy. Tell me, how is ceasar massively outclassing him? And doffy for that matter you absolute ugh, you know what im not gonna bother insulting you. Probably had that happen to you your entire life. Enel came before lucci, yet enel would probably win as he had better speed feats and destructive power.You my friend, are either a troll or 10 years old.Im done answering you.


1- At best the sky splitting shows Shanks and WB we’re close, while Kaidou and BM are close. Which I actually agree is fairly likely; however Shanks and WB > Kaidou and BM

2- The Deadlock is not due to equality in a 1v1 Fight; it’s due to the sum total of the Yonko Military Might. In-fact the ‘dead-lock’ supports that they aren’t equal as Shanks does not have anywhere near the resources of Kaidou or BM; yet was still able to match their power 

3- We haven’t heard of a Top Tier Mid-Diffing another one in the manga; because there is no such thing as Top Tier in the One Piece manga; that’s a fan-made term lol. And as I said before characters like Doffy and YC used to be considered ‘Top Tier’ and I would hear that same shit about how none of them were going to be Mid/Low diff’d; then Katakuri was trolling Luffy’s ass after he beat Doffy and Cracker; and suddenly YC and Doffy weren’t ‘Top Tier’; and then YC1 was ‘Top Tier’ and I heard the same shit from you ‘Top Tier’ stans that no YC1 was being Low diff’d; and then Luffy got One-Shot by Kaidou and then YC1 were no longer ‘Top Tier’. So we have seen a ‘Top Tier’ get low-diffed before; you stans, just keep shifting the definition every time it happens. And now ‘Top Tier’ is Yonko; and of course we haven’t seen a Yonko get Low Diff’d yet because right now the Yonko are a benchmark for the MC just as Doffy / YC / YC1 we’re before this. Once Luffy beats a Yonko we will then see the weaker Yonko get Low / Mid Diff; or Luffy who is on Yonko level. But then of course I fully expect you stans to then say Kaidou and BM aren’t ‘Top Tier’ abs still cling to this BS made up rule, no matter how many times it’s proven wrong, and result to personal attacks because you just can’t admit your rule is made up....

3- Enel would only win against Lucci due to Logia advantage which he did not have against Luffy due to Luffy’s rubber body nullfying it. Without that Lucci destroy’s Enel as he is far faster then Luffy and far stronger. This is evident in Luffy needing two major power ups to defeat Lucci he didn’t need against Enel. So Lucci just like every other antagonist in One Piece still ups the level of overall power that Luffy needs to overcome. This is something that is literally always true. Yet somehow your going to believe that the level of Villains like Akainu and BB aren’t going to be substantially higher then Kaidou; because of your fanfic Top Tier rule...


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## Fujitora (Feb 12, 2020)

Turrin said:


> 1- At best the sky splitting shows Shanks and WB we’re close, while Kaidou and BM are close. Which I actually agree is fairly likely; *however Shanks and WB > Kaidou and BM*


You call me using manga facts fanfic when you spout bullshit like this? What is the basis of your claim? Oh wait there is none. Absolutely nothing. Nada. Come at me with arguments as to why you think this is so before ill take you seriously. And im not the one saying a top tier mid diffs or less another top tier. Thats the most retarded thing ive ever read. And you glossed over me saying that kaido is going down to a huge group. So how exactly is he way( as per your idiotic belief) weaker than an akainu that will go down one arc or two from now solo or maybe duo?
And did you just include me in all the stuff people were saying before lmfao? I never said any of that.There is a top tier and its been shown since the start of the damn manga, WB was introduced as the worlds strongest man and the yonko have been said to have been contesting him equally for territory, there you have it. Thats the ceiling. The top tier. And since admirals seem to be portrayed at the same level you have them too and then you got mihawk and i guess dragon as well. You cant be coming here spouting your gibberish and expect to be taken seriously. 
Also:
*D: Odacchi!! In the sbs from volume 82 you told us how to escape from Akainu, bears, ghosts and the like. But when I try to do this before my angered mother I'm just beaten up... Is my mother stronger than Akainu?* P.N. Star Fairy

*O:* You better watch out! you're being too brash! A mother is the strongest living being in the world, even stronger than Kaido!! Don't you dare do it again! But, you know, your mother loves you more than anyone else.
Oda *>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Your headcanon.


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## Turrin (Feb 12, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> You call me using manga facts fanfic when you spout bullshit like this? What is the basis of your claim? Oh wait there is none. Absolutely nothing. Nada. Come at me with arguments as to why you think this is so before ill take you seriously. And im not the one saying a top tier mid diffs or less another top tier. Thats the most retarded thing ive ever read. And you glossed over me saying that kaido is going down to a huge group. So how exactly is he way( as per your idiotic belief) weaker than an akainu that will go down one arc or two from now solo or maybe duo?
> Also:
> *D: Odacchi!! In the sbs from volume 82 you told us how to escape from Akainu, bears, ghosts and the like. But when I try to do this before my angered mother I'm just beaten up... Is my mother stronger than Akainu?* P.N. Star Fairy
> 
> ...


1- Can you show me where ‘Top Tier’ was mentioned in canon? Can you show me where it was stated in canon that all ‘Top Tiers’ are close enough in strength one can’t Mid-Diff another? If not then yes that concept and rule is fan made; and therefore fan fiction.

2- Your the one who asserted two characters clashing and splitting the sky implied touch equality. If we work under that assumption then Shanks should be close to WB; and WB was WSM > Kaidou and BM. Additionally as I said Shanks is a Haki Monster and Kaidou is being setup to loose to Haki; and Shanks directly dealt with Kaidou and still arrived at MF without any damage and in good enough fighting shape to stop Akainu. He’s also been saved to fight against future strong antagonist then Akainu. That should be more then enough evidence to support WB and Shanks > Akainu and BM. Not saying it’s confirmed, but that it’s likely and what I believe

3. When Kaidou goes down to a massive group of people we can talk; but that’s not how I see the match playing out and I feel people still clinging to this are in denial of what the arc is setting up. Just like these same people were saying Kaidou wasn’t going to get cucked by Odin, despite them staring at the giant scar Odin left on Kaidou right in their face the entire arc. The idea that Kaidou is going down to a huge force really became unlikely the moment BM joined him as their simply isn’t enough heroes in the arc that they can deal with all of Kaidou top men, BMs, and BM; and there still be a good amount left over to swarm Kaidou

4. And taking Oda joking in an sbs as evidence is cringe worthy


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## Fujitora (Feb 12, 2020)

Turrin said:


> 1- Can you show me where ‘Top Tier’ was mentioned in canon? Can you show me where it was stated in canon that all ‘Top Tiers’ are close enough in strength one can’t Mid-Diff another? If not then yes that concept and rule is fan made; and therefore fan fiction.
> 
> 2- Your the one who asserted two characters clashing and splitting the sky implied touch equality. If we work under that assumption then Shanks should be close to WB; and WB was WSM > Kaidou and BM. Additionally as I said Shanks is a Haki Monster and Kaidou is being setup to loose to Haki; and Shanks directly dealt with Kaidou and still arrived at MF without any damage and in good enough fighting shape to stop Akainu. He’s also been saved to fight against future strong antagonist then Akainu. That should be more then enough evidence to support WB and Shanks > Akainu and BM. Not saying it’s confirmed, but that it’s likely and what I believe
> 
> 3. When Kaidou goes down to a massive group of people we can talk; but that’s not how I see the match playing out and I feel people still clinging to this are in denial of what the arc is setting up. Just like these same people were saying Kaidou wasn’t going to get cucked by Odin, despite them staring at the giant scar Odin left on Kaidou right in their face the entire arc. The idea that Kaidou is going down to a huge force really became unlikely the moment BM joined him as their simply isn’t enough heroes in the arc that they can deal with all of Kaidou top men, BMs, and BM; and there still be a good amount left over to swarm Kaidou


I already showed you the power ceiling being WB and the other yonko being on equal terms with him competing for territory is canon. Shanks clashing with him doesnt mean that kaido wont do the same since they were all portrayed as relative equals. So if we go by that logic and that the admirals are portrayed to be as on the same level of power and the fact that it took aokiji and akainu 10 days of intense fighting to determine a winner. We can infer that none of them is gonna mid diff the other, understand?
2. We dont know the context of which shanks was able to stall kaido, if you truly believe they fought  and shanks arrived fresh with a fresh ship and crew then you are a lost cause. Again, oda said that wano will make marineford look cute. Luffy is not soloing kaido so he will go down to a team fight. Oden was being hyped up to be a beast, roger and whitebeard hyped him up beyond belief and the manga even said that after his voyage he came back a good deal stronger so i dont see the problem with him being that strong and making kaido bleed. 
3.The fact that you seem to think kaido looking worse for shove against oden back then is a bad thing for either when it should be a testament to oden's strenght and kaido who was litteraly fucking said to still be growing in power makes me think you only see things at face value. Being saved up for later means absolutely nothing, whitebeard went down in marineford yet im sure hes still as strong as the other ''top tiers''
4. If you think the current alliance can take on Kaido and Bm let alone kaido you are in for a rude awakening. The set up for the marines and some of the warlords( boa and weevil come to mind) as well as the remnants of the whitebeard pirates and blackbeard( moria didnt randomly reappear and go to him for no reason) to all converge into wano. There is no way in high heavens luffy is soloing kaido. Its not being in denial, its being logical. You cant go from being neg diffed to extreme diffing someone in less than a weak, especially after you went all out and did no damage to said person while getting SPEED blizted and one hit. The difference in stats is too insane. What luffys new haki will allow him to do is deal damage to kaido but that doesnt mean it will be enough for him to solo. He'll need help.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Feb 13, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> I already showed you the power ceiling being WB and the other yonko being on equal terms with him competing for territory is canon. Shanks clashing with him doesnt mean that kaido wont do the same since they were all portrayed as relative equals. So if we go by that logic and that the admirals are portrayed to be as on the same level of power and the fact that it took aokiji and akainu 10 days of intense fighting to determine a winner. We can infer that none of them is gonna mid diff the other, understand?
> 2. We dont know the context of which shanks was able to stall kaido, if you truly believe they fought  and shanks arrived fresh with a fresh ship and crew then you are a lost cause. Again, oda said that wano will make marineford look cute. Luffy is not soloing kaido so he will go down to a team fight. Oden was being hyped up to be a beast, roger and whitebeard hyped him up beyond belief and the manga even said that after his voyage he came back a good deal stronger so i dont see the problem with him being that strong and making kaido bleed.
> 3.The fact that you seem to think kaido looking worse for shove against oden back then is a bad thing for either when it should be a testament to oden's strenght and kaido who was litteraly fucking said to still be growing in power makes me think you only see things at face value. Being saved up for later means absolutely nothing, whitebeard went down in marineford yet im sure hes still as strong as the other ''top tiers''
> 4. If you think the current alliance can take on Kaido and Bm let alone kaido you are in for a rude awakening. The set up for the marines and some of the warlords( boa and weevil come to mind) as well as the remnants of the whitebeard pirates and blackbeard( moria didnt randomly reappear and go to him for no reason) to all converge into wano. There is no way in high heavens luffy is soloing kaido. Its not being in denial, its being logical. You cant go from being neg diffed to extreme diffing someone in less than a weak, especially after you went all out and did no damage to said person while getting SPEED blizted and one hit. The difference in stats is too insane. What luffys new haki will allow him to do is deal damage to kaido but that doesnt mean it will be enough for him to solo. He'll need help.


1- The power ceiling isn’t WB. Prime Roger and Rocks are the strongest we’ve herd of; and with Joy Boy and IM lurking in the background they might be even stronger still. Logically the power structure goes Joy Boy / IM ? Prime Roger =~ Rocks > Sick Roger =~ Prime WB > Old/Sick WB > Kaidou =~ BM

2- Shanks clashing with WB doesn’t mean Kaidou couldn’t do the same, but Kaidou hasn’t done the same. So there is no reason to say Kaidou is close to equal to Old WB at this moment. Akainu and Aokiji being close also doesn’t mean all Admirals are close; or that Kaidou is close to them. There is no reason it can’t be Old WB >= Shanks > Kaidou / BM; and no reason it can’t be Akainu >= Aokiji > Fujitora / Green Bull. Just because two Yonko or Admirals clash evenly; does not mean those 2 are equal to the other 2 or their is an unspoken role that they all have to be close; that’s the part your making up

3- Saying I’m a lost cause isn’t an argument. Can you show me proof that Kaidou didn’t cuck down time Shanks? If you can’t then, you have no argument, not matter how many insults you throw around. And Oda is hyping the story up of course he’s going to say Wano is going to be epic; that doesn’t mean the characters involved in Wano are stronger then the ones involved in MF; unless you really want to argue Kaidou and BM; are > 3 Admirals, Warlords, WB, Sengoku, and Garp combined; Oda statement obviously has nothing to do with the level of characters, just that he’s going to try to make the action and set pieces better in Wano.

4- Kaidou hype going into the arc was that he always won 1v1, even though it happens in the past Kaidou loosing to Oden 1v1; is clearly setting the stage for Luffy pulling off the same feat and beating Kaidou 1v1, whether he got stronger or otherwise, doesn’t matter. And WB wasn’t an antagonist, so he is an irrelevant example. As I said literally every successive antagonist is a much greater challenge for Luffy forcing him to up his game somehow; this is true throughout the entire manga. So yes Kaidou blowing his load her in Wano; inevitably means that the next antagonist(s) are going to be above his level and force Luffy to new heights. This is basic story telling as well.

5- Yes you can go from being Neg diff’d to winning. The same exact thing happened with Luffy vs Crocodile in Alabast. Luffy gets negged by Crocodile in their first encounter because he couldn’t damage him; which is incidentally the same issue he had with Kaidou. Then Luffy figures out a way to damage him (which is what he’s doing currently for Kaidou with Advanced CoA) and looses again Mid-Diff and then eventually wins in their final battle extreme diff. The same setup is there for Kaidou. 


Saying Admirals / Warlords / etc... are going to arrive an help Luffy is fine; but we have no evidence of that right now; and even if they did their is little guarantee that would prevent a 1v1; considering the sheer quantity of Kaidou and BM force; and the amount of YC they have as well. There are simply too many enemies in play where it makes sense that much more fighters are involved besides Luffy; also the entirity of P1 has built up to Luffy vs Kaidou; it would cheapen this drastically by having Luffy need tons of help to beat him; and that does not seem to be the plan. At best Zoro damages Kaidou with Emma before Luffy faces him, but then Luffy will probably take some damage too from Mom or a trick from Kaidou or something to even things out a bit


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## RossellaFiamingo (Feb 13, 2020)

Rakuyo said:


> >further supporting Shanks can probably mid diff Kaidou; if not worse


Bruh you're talking to the dude who believes WB Low diffs other Yonko with "Planet Busting" Gura punches.


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## Fujitora (Feb 13, 2020)

Turrin said:


> 1- The power ceiling isn’t WB. Prime Roger and Rocks are the strongest we’ve herd of; and with Joy Boy and IM lurking in the background they might be even stronger still. Logically the power structure goes Joy Boy / IM ? Prime Roger =~ Rocks > Sick Roger =~ Prime WB > Old/Sick WB > Kaidou =~ BM
> 
> 2- Shanks clashing with WB doesn’t mean Kaidou couldn’t do the same, but Kaidou hasn’t done the same. So there is no reason to say Kaidou is close to equal to Old WB at this moment. Akainu and Aokiji being close also doesn’t mean all Admirals are close; or that Kaidou is close to them. There is no reason it can’t be Old WB >= Shanks > Kaidou / BM; and no reason it can’t be Akainu >= Aokiji > Fujitora / Green Bull. Just because two Yonko or Admirals clash evenly; does not mean those 2 are equal to the other 2 or their is an unspoken role that they all have to be close; that’s the part your making up
> 
> ...


Alright man, if you say that the stuff im saying isnt an argument then yours isnt either. You are basically going against what oda and the manga tells you, which is fine. Ill just sit back and enjoy one piece as i always do. 
Sengoku said that if BM and Kaido allied then it would give birth to the worst crew in the world. And they want to take over the world. So you believe that luffy and co will stop them is kind of a stretch.
Against crocodile, luffy was stronger than him physically but couldnt touch him. In this instance, kaido vastly outclasses luffy in every single stat. Just because he may be able to hurt him now doesnt mean he cant actually beat him 1vs1, thats not the same thing.
And i like how the manga tells you that whitebeard and roger are equals. Shows them fighting equally yet you someone refuse all that and say that xebec is stronger and that roger is his equal( even tho he needed garps help to put him down. So no WB is the ceiling, and he was presented as such. And portrayal wise all yonko have been shown to be about equal, hence the deadlock. Hence them COMPETING equally for territory with WB, that shit has been going on for years.
The admiral position was shown to be a position where you need to be at a certain level to be accepted in it. The 3 admirals were portrayed equally, and the new ones were called monsters by doffy. Nothing indicates that those two are weaker except people's headcanon. 
I just cant get over the fact that you firmly believe an admiral can mid diff another and or a yonko can do the same to another one. If that was the case then there would be no deadlock mate. And sure lets ignore the fact that kaido was hyped up for climbing to his position for his individual might alone, the fact that when sengoku was announcing there bounties when he got to him he said : And last but not least. These are not the words you choose for someone whos that much weaker than everyone that was announced and for Sengoku, a man roger respected and wanted to fight. That says a lot. I honestly dont care about your headcanon but i just felt like your take on top tiers is assinine.


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## Turrin (Feb 13, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Alright man, if you say that the stuff im saying isnt an argument then yours isnt either. You are basically going against what oda and the manga tells you, which is fine. Ill just sit back and enjoy one piece as i always do.
> Sengoku said that if BM and Kaido allied then it would give birth to the worst crew in the world. And they want to take over the world. So you believe that luffy and co will stop them is kind of a stretch.
> Against crocodile, luffy was stronger than him physically but couldnt touch him. In this instance, kaido vastly outclasses luffy in every single stat. Just because he may be able to hurt him now doesnt mean he cant actually beat him 1vs1, thats not the same thing.
> And i like how the manga tells you that whitebeard and roger are equals. Shows them fighting equally yet you someone refuse all that and say that xebec is stronger and that roger is his equal( even tho he needed garps help to put him down. So no WB is the ceiling, and he was presented as such. And portrayal wise all yonko have been shown to be about equal, hence the deadlock. Hence them COMPETING equally for territory with WB, that shit has been going on for years.
> ...


1. I’m not presenting personal insults or disbelief as an argument, like you are tho....

2. I’m saying Luffy will beat Kaidou; leaving Scabards, Supernova, and other Straw Hats (and potentially other allies) to beat the rest of BM / Kaidou Crews & BM, which is way more realistic then your scenario where everyone is ganging up on Kaidou, leaving no one to fight BM, BM Crew, King, Jack, Queen, etc....

3.  You asked for a time when Luffy got Low-Diffed and then won, I gave it to you; now your back peddling. But Kaidou outclassing Luffy in every stat is made up. Kaidou has not proved faster then Luffy. He’s stronger then Luffy and more durable then him; both of these will be resolved though with Luffy strengthening his CoA Haki.

4. The manga shows Sick Roger as equal to Prime WB; and tells us that Rocks was Rogers greatest enemy; that pretty cleanly establishes Roger and Rocks in their Primes as the best

5. The Yonko have all been shown to be equal as pirates, but they all have different resources. Can you explain how it makes sense that Kaidou >= Shanks, but Red Hair Pirates can match the Beast Pirates; when the Beast Pirates have a massive army that the Red Hairs don’t. Something doesn’t add up there. It’s obvious Kaidou numbers are making up for his individual strength being inferior to Shanks.

6. Having to be at a certain level to be an Admiral doesn’t mean they are all equals. Even the Color trio being equals doesn’t mean all Admirals are on their level 

7. Kaidou climbing up to Yonko status due to his individual mightn’t is bulllshit; we see that clearly in the wano flachback where he gained the power of Wano through the machinations of the Crone and Orochi; not his individual might. Public belief doesn’t mean anything when we are shown it’s not the case

8. Sengoku showing respect to Kaidou doesn’t mean much; he’s a Yonko and deserves respect. But a huge amount of his hype is based on Lies or misconceptions.


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## Fujitora (Feb 13, 2020)

Turrin said:


> 5. The Yonko have all been shown to be equal as pirates, but they all have different resources. Can you explain how it makes sense that Kaidou >= Shanks, but Red Hair Pirates can match the Beast Pirates; when the Beast Pirates have a massive army that the Red Hairs don’t. Something doesn’t add up there. It’s obvious Kaidou numbers are making up for his individual strength being inferior to Shanks.
> 
> 8. Sengoku showing respect to Kaidou doesn’t mean much; he’s a Yonko and deserves respect. *But a huge amount of his hype is based on Lies or misconceptions*.


Shanks crew was said to be the most balanced and also having the strongest commanders. Instead of thinking that that balances out with shanks being a bit weaker than the other yonko but having a stronger crew, you took it at the reverse? Suit yourself
And please do tell me all those lies and misconceptions mate? He wasnt a yonko when he took over wano by the way.


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## Turrin (Feb 13, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Shanks crew was said to be the most balanced and also having the strongest commanders. Instead of thinking that that balances out with shanks being a bit weaker than the other yonko but having a stronger crew, you took it at the reverse? Suit yourself
> And please do tell me all those lies and misconceptions mate? He wasnt a yonko when he took over wano by the way.


1- Balanced means that they cover for each other’s weakness and skill-sets the most.

2- Do you not understand that The Beast Pirates have 20,000 Members, including the headliners, numbers, and All Stars. On-top of this Dressrosa and Doffy and Ceaser were all’s part of Kaidou power and so is Wano through Orochi. The only way that is possible is that Shanks core members are stronger then the All Stars / Head Liners and Shanks is stronger then Kaidou significantly to make up for the massive numerical advantage.

3- Dude he became a Yonko in large part due to him taking over Wano; that’s literally his seat power and he didn’t accomplish it with 1v1 fighting he accomplished it with tricks. I’m not telling you anything the story is telling you it; he lost 1v1 and had to lie his way to victory. Kaidou hype more aptly belongs to Odin lol


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