# Kishimoto on NaruHina and SasuSaku



## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

Hahaha 

Also it seems Kishi is done with Naruto for good at the end of next summer.


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## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

i will quote myself here:



Addy said:


> kishi thinks she is a terrible woman if she had another relationship that is not with the guy who tried to kill her? XD
> 
> 
> kishi,  i just cant :rofl


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## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Addy said:


> i will quote myself here:



Falling for Naruto when she confessed to Sasuke(Again) 7 chapters ago would have been retarted.


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## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)




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## Lace (Nov 20, 2014)

Who says she even had to move on to Naruto? Just drop Sasuke. Murder attempts and the verbal degrading could have been pretty believable reasons to have Sakura move on without making her a 'terrible' person


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## DemonBorn4569 (Nov 20, 2014)

Lace said:


> Who says she even had to move on to Naruto? Just drop Sasuke. Murder attempts and the verbal degrading could have been pretty believable reasons to have Sakura move on without making her a 'terrible' person



I don't think Kishi realizes how terrible of a person pre-chapter 700 Sasuke was because he's all about blaming external factors and making peoples actions independent of their character, plus the legion of Uchiha-ballwashers who would crucify Kishi if he did anything to Sasuke.


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## Jυstin (Nov 20, 2014)

Hey, kove is blind.

And in Helen Keller's case, it's also deaf.


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## Hexa (Nov 20, 2014)

There were definitely hints being dropped about Sakura possibly returning Naruto's feelings during the Sasuke and Sai arc  and up to the Immortals arc.  The Pain arc, or maybe a bit before that, I think is the point where the Hinata course was decided.   Kishimoto's assistant mentioned suggestively that _[. . .] I have the feeling that ever since Pain we haven't really seen Naruto chase after Sakura..._​Sakura's Land of Iron confession is basically an expression of Kishimoto's belief that switching from Sasuke would make Sakura a "terrible woman".  I think, more and more, the Land of Iron confession was meant as the resolution of the romantic side of Naruto and Sakura's relationship.


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## Yahiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Thats okay but i still didnt understand why kishi showed naruto having a crush on sakura in the first place?


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## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

I think the bigger news in this is the mini-series will last at most 6 months.


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## DemonBorn4569 (Nov 20, 2014)

MOHAMMAD SAQIB said:


> Thats okay but i still didnt understand why kishi showed naruto having a crush on sakura in the first place?



Because its ok to have a crush and grow out of it, especially when said crush occurs at 12 years of age.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Needless to say, Kishi has one twisted perception of women.


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## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Yeah, I was not really sure If I should translate this or not.


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## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

_Wooooooooow...._

A terrible woman, y'say? Good god


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## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

women don't understand kishi.


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## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishimoto should become a marriage counsellor.


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## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

I think Kish is trying to convey that true love (for a person) doesn't disappear, no matter what. At least I hope. And if Sakura abandoned that it would make her terrible.


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## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

well,, kishimoto has been pushing the message of 'never giving up' since ch.1 so i cant say its not overall a positive message. but obviously, it couldve been handled better


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## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> Falling for Naruto when she confessed to Sasuke(Again) 7 chapters ago would have been retarted.



that isnt what i meant. i meant the implication that a female cant fall for someone else but her first love 

it's sasuke for god's sake XD


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## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Side note. 

His comment is strange. On one level it is why I agreed with Sakura ending up with Sasuke, but on another level he thinks it makes her a character who isn't terrible. Ultimately it is about consistency: Sakura was a character who was consistently shit, so it makes sense to have that reflect in her final decision.

If he had said, ''There was a time when I was on the fence about going with Sakura, but after coming this far and just having Sakura switch over to loving Naruto would make her kind of a *sensible* woman."

I wouldn't be able to disagree with him. The end result isn't wrong; he did take the character too far the wrong way to turn back; it is his perception that is off key.


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## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

Apparently it wasn't a possibility that Sakura could still want to save Sasuke without wanting to bang him. That would have made her a "terrible woman".


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## HolyHands (Nov 20, 2014)

It really shows how Kishimoto doesn't consider Sasuke a bad person. Even if the villages were suspicious of him, Naruto still had absolute faith that he could make Sasuke a good guy again, and the overall message that is being pushed here is that it was the negative circumstances of the world that should be blamed, not Sasuke himself.

I still feel that Kishi could have done a much better job at portraying it. The redemption would have made more sense if not for the whole Kage Summit arc. That arc alone made Sasuke's redemption a lot harder to swallow because of the whole DARKNESS nonsense. But since the overall theme of team 7 is not giving up on your friends, it only makes sense that Sakura would still be there to love Sasuke when he came back, although the execution leaves a bit to be desired.


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## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

how many loves does anyone need? this is what ive never got about pairing fans, this idea you can chop n change your pairing like you would when you go shopping for an outfit. 

how does anyone even relate to that irl?

just being serious for a bit, but relationships aren't easy to build or break-up. if you don't value them, then its not really a relationship.


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## Lace (Nov 20, 2014)

DemonBorn4569 said:


> I don't think Kishi realizes how terrible of a person pre-chapter 700 Sasuke was because he's all about blaming external factors and making peoples actions independent of their character, plus the legion of Uchiha-ballwashers who would crucify Kishi if he did anything to Sasuke.



Pretty much gathered that when Kishimoto called Sasuke 'pure'


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## Deleted member 23 (Nov 20, 2014)

Addy said:


> i will quote myself here:





Seto Kaiba said:


> Needless to say, Kishi has one twisted perception of women.





Hydro Spiral said:


> _Wooooooooow...._
> 
> A terrible woman, y'say? Good god





N120 said:


> women don't understand kishi.





Gunners said:


> I wouldn't be able to disagree with him. The end result isn't wrong; he did take the character too far the wrong way to turn back; it is his perception that is off key.



Who else is going to complain about Kishi not understanding women when even Kishi said he doesn't understand women?

Can't wait for the shitstorm that will come when the full interview comes.


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## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Yeah, I was not really sure If I should translate this or not.



I saw your original translation in the movie pairing thread. It's certainly, uh, different.


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## eluna (Nov 20, 2014)

Sakura end up alone was fine,there no need to end up with a psycho,ugh Kishi


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## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

there should be a radio talk show with kishi as host, his personality and views have been as big a focus as his manga.

I'm sure he'll get excellent ratings. people will listen in even if they hate him, just the type of guy he is.


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## Phemt (Nov 20, 2014)

Knock knock.
Who's there?
It's reality check.

Hahaha.


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## elinra (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishi  

Her ending up with sauce makes her an even more terrible character than she already was .


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## Haruka Katana (Nov 20, 2014)

MOHAMMAD SAQIB said:


> Thats okay but i still didnt understand why kishi showed naruto having a crush on sakura in the first place?



It was the Editor who wanted Kishi to have a love triangle and rivalry in team 7 lol


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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

Dude, Sakura sucks either way. You shouldnt have made her a pairing fodder and redemption cushion to begin with.


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## babaGAReeb (Nov 20, 2014)

> having sakura switch over to loving naruto would make her kind of a terrible woman



lel, implying suckura isnt a terrible woman for marrying a psychopathic murderer who almost killed her


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## ShadowFox88 (Nov 20, 2014)

Holy fucking shit!!

 

I can't


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## Harbour (Nov 20, 2014)

So, he thinks that after building NaruSaku relationships during 500+ chapters Sakura changed her heart won't be good, but Naruto felt into love with Hinata during 1.5 hours of the Last Movie is definitely not "all of sudden"?
Oh that awesome logic.


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## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

I sense rustled jimmies.


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## Meia (Nov 20, 2014)

I didn't think it could get any worse and here we are....

Because you know, it's absolutely impossible for Sakura to move on to someone that isn't Naruto. 
Getting over the crush you developed when you were 13 makes you a bad person. 
This wisdom just floored me.


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## Corvida (Nov 20, 2014)

Harbour said:


> So, he thinks that after building NaruSaku relationships during 500+ chapters Sakura changed her heart won't be good,



If he had developed the NaruSaku relationship romantically, perhaps.

He didnt.

kishi didnt like the  Semper mutabile Sakura , or he woudnt  have mocked the idea in the failfession-when he expossed the narsak romantic innards for everyone to see.


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## Zynn (Nov 20, 2014)

All these comments... 

Makes me wonder if Kishi should have never listened to his editors and never created Sakura and Sasuke in the first place. Could have saved us a lot of grievances, whining, and fan wank.


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## Annamay (Nov 20, 2014)

So moving on from a guy that's consistently shut down her emotional appeals, called her annoying, tried to kill her on multiple occasions, and given her every reason to think he didn't care whether she lived or died..._ moving on from him would make her a terrible woman?_

This isn't even about shipping at this point. I don't care if Sakura had ended up with anyone but to seriously say that moving on from a guy who has caused her so much hurt for a good majority of the series would make her _a terrible woman???_

What the absolute... This is exactly why I refuse to align my own moral compass with the kind of morals Kishi is trying to sell.


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## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

The only reason that Ino isn't a terrible woman is that she chose a guy who is as close to a duplicate of Sasuke as possible. She's semi-terrible.

If she had totally moved on and picked Chouji, that would have been truly terrible.


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## Mael (Nov 20, 2014)

This is fucking hilarious.

He really did want Sakura to be tied to the whipping post after all.  Go with Naruto and asspull romance, go with Sasuke and tolerate violence/instability.  She was never meant to be strong or assertive.


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## Hitt (Nov 20, 2014)

Sakura WOULD be a terrible woman?   

Oh don't worry Kishi, she already is.  It's amazing, the story is over and he continues to shit on the character.


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## Jυstin (Nov 20, 2014)

> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 56 (21 members and 35 guests)



Holy shit.

People (like me) can say what they want about how poorly the pairings were handled, but fuck if it doesn't sell.


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## Tiller (Nov 20, 2014)

Well hopefully most people can see now just how bad of a writer this guy is. He is horrible at character development.


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## Hitt (Nov 20, 2014)

Well he DID admit to outright FORGETTING about her for a while.  The "main heroine" is just so amazing.


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## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

The execution of what Kishi wanted to portray is as almost always in part 2, extremely lacking. Sakura comes off as looking pretty terrible either way, though for NaruSaku it only went truly sour with that second confession. The Iron Country failfession could be forgiven and rationalized enough for it to still work with the narrative but that well...it made it so any of the big three happening would be terrible writing. Sakura would have been far from terrible for having come to genuinely love Naruto in the early parts of part 2, where there was definite groundwork being laid for her feelings for him growing in that direction. It seems that Kishi is saying he didn't go for the actual pairing that he gave proper development because it would make Sakura look bad for moving on from someone she hasn't seen in three years, was 12-13 when she last saw him, barely ever interacted with in any meaningful/positive way, has turned traitor and who has always rejected her advances. That being followed by multiple murder attempts and just generally treating her like garbage. This comes off as Kishi thinking that women are stuck with having feelings for and only for the first dude that catches their fancy.

Sakura ending the manga not paired with anyone or at least not Sasuke or Naruto was the only way to not make her character look terrible.


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## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Mael said:


> This is fucking hilarious.
> 
> He really did want Sakura to be tied to the whipping post after all.  Go with Naruto and asspull romance, go with Sasuke and tolerate violence/instability.  She was never meant to be strong or assertive.



Of course. He already mentioned that a long time ago.

You can say that Kishimoto sucks, but he was enterily consistant about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke.
In fact, this is the most consistant thing about Sakura.


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## C-Moon (Nov 20, 2014)

Your "heroine" ladies and gentlemen


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishimoto truly is a Japanese man.


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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

He hates her, that much is obvious.


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## Hitt (Nov 20, 2014)

C-Moon said:


> Your "heroine" ladies and gentlemen



It really is hard to find a worse example when you consider other examples of horrible "heroines" were meant to be done that way.  For instance, Asuka Langley from Evangelion.


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## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> The only reason that Ino isn't a terrible woman is that she chose a guy who is as close to a duplicate of Sasuke as possible. She's semi-terrible.
> 
> If she had totally moved on and picked Chouji, that would have been truly terrible.



come to think of it, didn't ino do the same as "terrible" sakura would have done?


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## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Zynn said:


> All these comments...
> 
> Makes me wonder if Kishi should have never listened to his editors and never created Sakura and Sasuke in the first place. Could have saved us a lot of grievances, whining, and fan wank.



This. All this butthurt because people didn't get the end they liked.  

Now we got feminist in here trying to tell Kishi what he should have done with Sakura.


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## Bishamon (Nov 20, 2014)

Ahhh, moving on from a mistreating and ungrateful piece of trash is what it's considered hineous. How far we have come.



klad said:


> Who else is going to complain about Kishi not understanding women when even Kishi said he doesn't understand women?
> 
> Can't wait for the shitstorm that will come when the full interview comes.



The fact that he doesn't understand them is obvious; It does not make the way he wrote her (and how he didn't, based on this) any better, or acceptable considering she's supposed to be the heroine.


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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

Addy said:


> come to think of it, didn't ino do the same as "terrible" sakura would have done?



She did. Right after Asuma told her to not lose to Sakura.


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## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

Addy said:


> come to think of it, didn't ino do the same as "terrible" sakura would have done?



Ino is a pretty terrible woman. Just look how she dresses.

She should have remained faithful to Sasuke for the rest of her life.


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## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Jυstin said:


> Holy shit.
> 
> People (like me) can say what they want about how poorly the pairings were handled, but fuck if it doesn't sell.



twilight, mother fucker!!!!!!!!  twilight!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Tony Lou (Nov 20, 2014)

I can see his point.

It could give fans the impression that Sakura only started giving a shit about the guy when he got famous.


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## Zynn (Nov 20, 2014)

Hitt said:


> It really is hard to find a worse example when you consider other examples of horrible "heroines" were meant to be done that way.  For instance, Asuka Langley from Evangelion.



Completely different can of worm, dude. That series had serious issues right from the start.


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## Mael (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> Ino is a pretty terrible woman. Just look how she dresses.
> 
> She should have remained faithful to Sasuke for the rest of her life.



That's slut-shamin' sexism, cishetlord.


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## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Annamay said:


> So moving on from a guy that's consistently shut down her emotional appeals, called her annoying, tried to kill her on multiple occasions, and given her every reason to think he didn't care whether she lived or died..._ moving on from him would make her a terrible woman?_
> 
> This isn't even about shipping at this point. I don't care if Sakura had ended up with anyone but to seriously say that moving on from a guy who has caused her so much hurt for a good majority of the series would make her _a terrible woman???_
> 
> What the absolute... This is exactly why I refuse to align my own moral compass with the kind of morals Kishi is trying to sell.



>This is exactly why I refuse to align my own moral compass with the kind of morals Kishi is trying to sell.

I don't think anyone does. This is why SasuSaku is the most hated pairing. It's portrayed as a good thing that it happened when it's obviously not.


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## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

So does that prove that the kushina paralulz were just a way to troll readers?


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## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

Wow Kishi is an idiot when it comes to writing romances, that's really all I have to say about this.

It would make Sakura a terrible woman to move onto Jesus incarnate over someone who tried to murder her, really Kishi.


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## babaGAReeb (Nov 20, 2014)

i wonder wtf goes through kishi fucked up mind if he believes that if a woman stops loving a man who insulted and almost killed her it makes her a terrible woman

clearly he wrote all that while simultaneously beating his wife


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## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> Ino is a pretty terrible woman. Just look how she dresses.
> 
> She should have remained faithful to Sasuke for the rest of her life.



oh god, now i think son looking like that is punishment from kishi for ending up with sai


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## Bishamon (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> Ino is a pretty terrible woman. Just look how she dresses.
> 
> She should have remained faithful to Sasuke for the rest of her life.



Should've convinced him to cheat on Sakura too while we're at it. In fact I bet that's what goes on when Sakura ain't in the house


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Nov 20, 2014)

Luiz said:


> I can see his point.
> 
> It could give fans the impression that Sakura only started giving a shit about the guy when he got famous.


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## Tony Lou (Nov 20, 2014)

Gwynbleidd said:


> Ahhh, moving on from a mistreating and ungrateful piece of trash is what it's considered hineous. How far have we come.



Ungrateful? Didn't he say "thank you" in 699?


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## Hitt (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Wow Kishi is an idiot when it comes to writing romances, that's really all I have to say about this.
> 
> It would make Sakura a terrible woman to move onto Jesus incarnate over someone who tried to murder her, really Kishi.



Not just the romances, the plot too.  The story already was plummeting downward before it crashed into the ground at 700.  This is more cake icing.


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## Zynn (Nov 20, 2014)

Aaanndd this thread turns into a bashing festa. What a glorious day we're having.


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## Tony Lou (Nov 20, 2014)

Gwynbleidd said:


> Should've convinced him to cheat on Sakura too while we're at it. In fact I bet that's what goes on when Sakura ain't in the house



Sakura is always in the house.

This is what goes on when Sasuke ain't in the house.


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## Annamay (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> This. All this butthurt because people didn't get the end they liked.
> 
> Now we got feminist in here trying to tell Kishi what he should have done with Sakura.


Don't you dare try to turn this around and make it about pairings. For some it is about pairings but how could you genuinely believe that a girl moving on from a childhood crush/love on a guy that's caused her so much misery would make her a terrible person? How?

That's a seriously messed up and damaging mindset. A terrible message to send when you're writing for a young audience.


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## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Zynn said:


> Aaanndd this thread turns into a bashing festa. What a glorious day we're having.



this is why these threads are fun


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## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...


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## C-Moon (Nov 20, 2014)

Zynn said:


> Aaanndd this thread turns into a bashing festa. What a glorious day we're having.



This is where Sakura threads usually end up.


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## mrsaphen (Nov 20, 2014)

I hope his wife bitchslaps him for saying things like this.


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## Bruce Wayne (Nov 20, 2014)

Sakura is considered the main heroine? I'm pretty sure that role belongs to Sasuke.


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## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> It would make Sakura a terrible woman to move onto Jesus incarnate over someone who tried to murder her, really Kishi.



That would have made her feelings for both look shallow.


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## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Of course. He already mentioned that a long time ago.
> 
> You can say that Kishimoto sucks, but he was enterily consistant about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke.
> *In fact, this is the most consistant thing about Sakura*.



to be fair, being consistent is a rarity in this manga


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## Hitt (Nov 20, 2014)

C-Moon said:


> This is where Sakura threads usually end up.



Her character deserves it.  And Kishi for writing that as "heroic".


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## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...



There is really no reason for NH shippers to be glad about this news, really. 

It's even worse when you consider the fact that he was on a fence about shitting on *NH* AND *SS*.

Why didn't he realize that those pairings were complete garbage?


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## Bishamon (Nov 20, 2014)

Luiz said:


> Sakura is always in the house.
> 
> This is what goes on when Sasuke ain't in the house.



Idk man
I mean she's gotta go buy them groceries sometimes



> Didn't he say "Thank you" in chapter 699?



To Sakura, someone he basically had no reason to thank at all other than the fact that she was always at the sidelines supposedly supporting him (support that he usually returned with a Chidori), while Naruto and Kakashi who are the only ones who actually did something get nothing 

and the ending is not the only thing I'm talkin' bout.


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## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> That would have made her feelings for both look shallow.



As long as Sakura still wanted to save Sasuke as a friend, it wouldn't matter if her romantic feelings for him were shallow and dissipated.


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## Tiller (Nov 20, 2014)

Annamay said:


> Don't you dare try to turn this around and make it about pairings. For some it is about pairings but how could you genuinely believe that a girl moving on from a childhood crush/love on a guy that's caused her so much misery would make her a terrible person? How?
> 
> That's a seriously messed up and damaging mindset. A terrible message to send when you're writing for a young audience.



Just another horrible theme put into this story "for 12 year olds". 

This story is truly one of the worst I've ever seen. I've never seen such an amazing premise destroyed so completely by it's own creator.


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## Mael (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> That would have made her feelings for both look shallow.



You're not very smart, huh?



Turrin said:


> Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...




Pairing tards are called tards for a reason.


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## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

Hitt said:


> Not just the romances, the plot too.  The story already was plummeting downward before it crashed into the ground at 700.  This is more cake icing.


The manga got worse because the fighting became ridiculous with all the power ups and Kishi clearly had an idea of what he wanted to do but his route to get there became increasingly convoluted and eventually just downright rushed. However I find this more retarded than all of that because it's Kishi literally arguing that Sakura would be a bad character if she decided to give up on the crush she had as a immature 12 year old for a guy that had been downright despicable towards her in favor of Jesus incarnate or even being an independent woman on her own. Clearly Kishi doesn't even realize that the reason everyone hates Sakura as a character is because the sole focus of her character is a completely unrelatable lust for Sasuke. Like I don't even see how it's possible that Kishi doesn't realize that, this is the reason she's not popular, and instead thinks that she's going to be a better character by getting with Sasuke; it's literally mind boggling how wrong and disconnected from reality Kishi is.


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## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...




Confirms?  I thought you were already 100% confident in what Kishimoto intended from the start.  "Being on the fence with Sakura" doesn't translate to your prior interpretations.


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## jazz189 (Nov 20, 2014)

Luiz said:


> I can see his point.
> 
> It could give fans the impression that Sakura only started giving a shit about the guy when he got famous.



If that's the reason why he didn't want to pair Sakura up with Naruto then that's fine.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

jazz189 said:


> If that's the reason why he didn't want to pair Sakura up with Naruto then that's fine.



Yeah, but wouldn't he have just said that if it's what he meant? Also, why would he think there's only two choices on that matter? Why not just have her plain move on?

Also, it does say a lot that he thinks that would make her look terrible and not consider that what he ultimately made her in the end does as well.


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## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...




How is that? It clearly says NaruHina was the original gameplan for the longest time. He gave some small consideration to NaruSaku at one time but then decided it would be better to stick with the original game plan. Just because he gave one of the reason for not switching his plan to NaruSaku, doesn't mean that if he didn't feel that way, that he would have decided to completely rewrite his story on a whim of the moment and make NaruSaku happen. Also seeing as NaruHina was the original gameplan it shows how NaruSaku fans were pulling evidence from thin air to support their pairing and that the author never intended for them be together.


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## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> This. All this butthurt because people didn't get the end they liked.
> 
> Now we got feminist in here trying to tell Kishi what he should have done with Sakura.


I despise feminism. However Kishi's portrayal of Sakura is just fucking terrible to the extreme. You can still like SS/NH as much as you want but decrying all criticism as just people being "salty" is really ignorant and stubborn.




Luiz said:


> I can see his point.
> 
> It could give fans the impression that Sakura only started giving a shit about the guy when he got famous.


The groundwork laid for her to be growing feelings for him in early part 2 were far before he became famous. If she only showed signs of liking him after the Pain arc, you'd have a point.


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## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Annamay said:


> Don't you dare try to turn this around and make it about pairings.


I don't have to, NS and ASS have already done it.



> That's a seriously messed up and damaging mindset. A terrible message to send when you're writing for a young audience.



Whether the message is terrible, or not is subjective. 

Kishi clearly sees no problem with it, and neither do the Japanese since they aren't having a meltdown over the ending like the Western fanbase.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Nov 20, 2014)

BS interview.

Says Sakura would be a terrible woman if she just switched to Naruto. Yet Naruto just switches to Hinata despite having the least development. 

Cool, that had to settle for Hinata.


----------



## Bellville (Nov 20, 2014)

TBH this NH vs NS bit doesn't mean that much to me without a more direct quote of where he made his final decisions. Kishi is one twisted mother fucker when it comes to the Sakura issue though. As people have mentioned, he couldn't just have her get over Sasuke and be single? If NaruSaku happened was he gonna force Sasuke with some random chick?? 


Zef said:


> That would have made her feelings for both look shallow.



You look at all the mud Sasuke dragged Sakura through and think she would have been shallow to walk away? 

Damn, maybe Kishi should be passing down his next gen series to you. Then we could have "people shouldn't leave unhealthy relationships" part 2.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)




----------



## jazz189 (Nov 20, 2014)

WolfPrinceKiba said:


> The groundwork laid for her to be growing feelings for him in early part 2 were far before he became famous. If she only showed signs of liking him after the Pain arc, you'd have a point.



He only time we ever see Sakura really consider Naruto was after he got famous, before then she was fixated on Sasuke. So  yeah we still would have gotten the impression that she only liked Naruto because he has taken Sasuke's place as the most popular guy in the village.


----------



## babaGAReeb (Nov 20, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> BS interview.
> 
> Says Sakura would be a terrible woman if she just switched to Naruto. Yet Naruto just switches to Hinata despite having the least development.
> 
> Cool, that had to settle for Hinata.


(a man can switch all he wants but a mere wimin better not even dare to switch to another guy even if he tried to kill her and insulted her)

kishis thoughts


----------



## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> That would have made her feelings for both look shallow.


As far as Sasuke goes, news flash, her feelings for him have always and will always appear shallow because Kishi never gave readers any reasoning for why Sakura would have such a deep love for him. He mistreated her throughout 90% of the series and the only reasons Sakura ever mentions for being in love with him is that he's cool, popular, and pretty; that's it. So SasuSakura was always doomed to look shallow. So her deciding that the feelings she had as a 12yo wasn't "true-love", would fit with that, because it already appeared and still does appear to be shallow.

Sakura choosing to be with Naruto may or may not look shallow, it just depends on how it's done. If Kishi played into this aspect that DBII touches on "Naruto?s words are always filled with hope. Sakura always finds hope in his words and moves ahead." and this from DBIII, "In her childhood, Sasuke was the object of her yearning, then loving feelings. Naruto was just the nuisance that would force itself between Sasuke and her, and ruin the day in some fashion. But looking back on the past after a few missions handled together, Sakura suddenly realized. In her painful moments, when she'd abandoned even the will to live, the one who'd protect her and encourage her was Naruto, the supposedly annoying one... What feelings does she harbor towards Naruto?... As of now, Sakura hasn't found the answer."

I would not find that a shallow relationship, It would find that to be healthy one and meaningful one.


----------



## Annamay (Nov 20, 2014)

Tiller said:


> Just another horrible theme put into this story "for 12 year olds".
> 
> This story is truly one of the worst I've ever seen. I've never seen such an amazing premise destroyed so completely by it's own creator.


I'm getting progressively annoyed the more I think of it. Kishi wrote the story of my childhood and he's been sowing these bizarre morals into it this whole time...




Zef said:


> That would have made her feelings for both look shallow.


When the series began Kishimoto referred to Sasuke as Sakura's "arbitrary love object." Near the series end, we still don't know what Sakura's even so into about Sasuke but Kakashi spouts that "You only need a reason to hate! (AKA you don't need a reason to love)" nonsense. He also made Kakashi think Sakura was a "kind girl" for sticking to Sasuke despite all the terrible crap he's done to her, and now we have Kishi saying she would have been terrible for moving on from her romantic feelings.

This has always been a baseless romance, the intensity of it found only in the amped-up drama. This interview is really just Kishi proving, not for the first time, that really messed up mindsets went into its creation.


----------



## Bishamon (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> This. All this butthurt because people didn't get the end they liked.
> 
> Now we got feminist in here trying to tell Kishi what he should have done with Sakura.



>feminism


Oh boy oh boy this word, we meet again. I've done nothing other than critize how shit the modern feminism movement is whenever I talk about it but apparently thinking Sakura's thing is unhealthy makes me one apparently. Fantastic.


----------



## Meat (Nov 20, 2014)

Damn i never seen so much hate in a thread. I wish im a shipper so i can understand those hatred.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Meat said:


> Damn i never seen so much hate in a thread. I wish im a shipper so i can understand those hatred.



You don't really have to be one to see how messed up his perceptions on women are.


----------



## babaGAReeb (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You don't really have to be one to see how messed up his perceptions on women are.


even some misogynists would be shocked at kishis opinion of wimin


----------



## Zyrax (Nov 20, 2014)

I am the lord of morons, the avatar of stupidness, the fool who dares to be foolisher, the patron saint of assholery, the harbinger of nincompoopery, the masta of disasta, the eater of your empty brain, the destroyer of intelligence, the maker of nonsense and the eternal enemy of making sense☻I am teh babaGAReeb!!!☻Fear me ye who have a brain for I shall suck it dry like a strawberry milkshake with a straw! A straw forged from your very own stupidity


----------



## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

I am just curious how much more smackdown Sakura will receive. Its been astonishing even for a long time hater like myself.


----------



## Tiller (Nov 20, 2014)

Meat said:


> Damn i never seen so much hate in a thread. I wish im a shipper so i can understand those hatred.



Why do you need to be a shipper to understand this? Kishimoto is basically saying that if a woman stands up for herself against an abuser she is a "horrible person". That idea should annoy you on principle.


----------



## Zynn (Nov 20, 2014)

Bellville said:


> You look at all the mud Sasuke dragged Sakura through and think she would have been shallow to walk away?



Ehh, if she wasn't being shallow as you called it then Sasuke would have died in the Summit Arc. Probably for the better, but I really don't know how the plot would have gone if that happened, though. 



> Damn, maybe Kishi should be passing down his next gen series to you. Then we could have "people shouldn't leave unhealthy relationships" part 2.



Holy shit, this again? Sasuke already made it clear from Sai/Sasuke Arc that he no longer want anything to do with Naruto and Sakura. Calling it an unhealthy when there's barely any relationship at all between them besides Naruto's and Sakura's single mindedness to bring him back to Konoha is a bit too much.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

GG Narusaku


----------



## C-Moon (Nov 20, 2014)

Bellville said:


> You look at all the mud Sasuke dragged Sakura through and think she would have been shallow to walk away?
> 
> Damn, maybe Kishi should be passing down his next gen series to you. Then we could have "people shouldn't leave unhealthy relationships" part 2.



[YOUTUBE]npHDxSvwCE0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

This also confirms Kishi's original plan was Hinata all along. 

lol@ the people saying OPPOSITE last week


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

I love how an interview about NH and NS became a Sakura bashing thread. 

OT: So where's the full interview?


----------



## mayumi (Nov 20, 2014)

Lace said:


> Who says she even had to move on to Naruto? Just drop Sasuke. Murder attempts and the verbal degrading could have been pretty believable reasons to have Sakura move on without making her a 'terrible' person



Sakura wouldn't have purpose in the manga if she isn't conceiving uchiha babies. That is basically that Kishi said. She is basically paired with Sasuke cause he need Salad for Bolt.


----------



## Meat (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You don't really have to be one to see how messed up his perceptions on women are.



Actually, i don't give a shit on kishi's perception on women's romance in a manga. this is a japanese manga so the darker, the better. If i want a good ole perfect romance then theres dysney. The real problem with kishi on portraying women in this manga is that they are sooo damn weak.


----------



## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

Its the theme of not giving up on people, no matter what people can still be redeemed can still be loved. That's the message I think kish is trying to convey. 

Don't try and twist this to something that its not. Even kishi's assistant seemed to be trying to say the manga's message is simple.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

jazz189 said:


> He only time we ever see Sakura really consider Naruto was after he got famous, before then she was fixated on Sasuke. So  yeah we still would have gotten the impression that she only liked Naruto because he has taken Sasuke's place as the most popular guy in the village.


She wasn't considering him after the Pain arc though. It was a fake confession. There are hints in early part 2 that point to Sakura having/growing romantic feelings for Naruto which Kishi could easily have gone further with if he chose too, there wasn't some big obstacle in the way of writing her as loving Naruto at that point(no one could shout asspull at it given the shallow nature of her feelings for Sasuke+his absence and betrayal), he just decided to have her stick with her old feelings because he has a warped view of women's emotions.


----------



## Selva (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishit said:
			
		

> But if after all this time, she would just all of a sudden changed her heart for Naruto, this would make her kind of a terrible woman, right?



So, here's the problem I have with this retarded statement. Sakura didn't have to change her heart to love Naruto, she didn't have to change her heart to love _anyone_ in the end. She didn't have to end up with a man to justify her existence. She had plenty of other things to focus on for the time being, being a great medic nin and inventing some shit or whatever. Just the thought that she has to get involved romantically with someone in the end is... pretty stupid to me.

Also, she'd be a terrible woman if she gave up on loving Sasuke... really? That's the same guy who trashed her all the time, demeaned her and tried to kill her more than once. Any sane woman would've moved on from this toxic shit. Sane is the keyword here tho, because Sakura is apparently anything but >.>


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Meat said:


> Actually, i don't give a shit on kishi's perception on women's romance in a manga. this is a japanese manga so the darker, the better. If i want a good ole perfect romance then theres dysney. The real problem with kishi on portraying women in this manga is that they are sooo damn weak.



What does it being Japanese have to do with it being darker? Or are you confusing Japanese media with being inherently more complex than western works? This has to do with characterization, which believe it or not, is a particularly important matter when writing a story.


----------



## Needless2say (Nov 20, 2014)

Lol@Kishi thinking that if Sakura switch her feelings from Sasuke to Naruto it will make her a terrible woman. I don't know about Sakura switching her feelings, makes her a terrible _woman_. Sounds a little too harsh. But It definitely would be terrible writing on Kishi part. 

Indeed, Kishi really does think Sakura love and devotion to Sasuke is honorable, it's the same for Naruto.

Anyways, Nothing kishi said was new, seem obvious to me. Its funny to see ppl have a melt down over the same shit again and again.

Atlas, I just going to sit back and watch the show as always.


----------



## Zyrax (Nov 20, 2014)

Both NaruSaku and SasuSaku suck 
So does Naruhina


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> Its the theme of not giving up on people, no matter what people can still be redeemed can still be loved. That's the message I think kish is trying to convey.
> 
> Don't try and twist this to something that its not. Even kishi's assistant seemed to be trying to say the manga's message is simple.



The message is simple, but it also lies in balance with other concepts. We know his intentions, that is not the same as those intentions being successful. Particularly considering Kishimoto has presented a twisted form of it.


----------



## ShadowFox88 (Nov 20, 2014)

Some of you are STILL defending this shit even after this blatantly sexist and ass backwards comments?


----------



## Bishamon (Nov 20, 2014)

Tiller said:


> Why do you need to be a shipper to understand this? Kishimoto is basically saying that if a woman stands up for herself against an abuser she is a "horrible person". That idea should annoy you on principle.



I'm guessing because if you were a shipping fan (I'm going to assume he means NS/SS shipping) you'd be more invested in the characters and stuff? I don't really give a shit about Sakura, and Sasuke is just atrocious. I have no investment in either, other than negativity.

This is just an awful, awful, awful thing to say and suggest.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

People don't seem to get how T7 relationships are portrayed.

*Sakura's undying love for Sasuke = Naruto's neverending desire to bring Sasuke back*

Hate it, say what you want but manga was clear on this. Sakura giving up on Sasuke meant the same as Naruto giving up on him and manga stated many times that it was TERRIBLE.

He just stated what manga was saying again. This is the first time I'm not jumping on sexism wagon here because it's about T7's feelings for Sasuke not the other way around.

Sasuke was never meant to be seen as an asshole. Just misguided.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> Its the theme of not giving up on people, no matter what people can still be redeemed can still be loved. That's the message I think kish is trying to convey.
> 
> Don't try and twist this to something that its not. Even kishi's assistant seemed to be trying to say the manga's message is simple.


Not giving up on people turning back to the light is one thing. Not moving on from a "love" when its extremely unhealthy not to is another.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> People don't seem to get how T7 relationships are portrayed.
> 
> *Sakura's undying love for Sasuke = Naruto's neverending desire to bring Sasuke back*
> 
> ...



This is stupid.

People know this already.

What people are saying is it's a twisted way to try and express the themes Kishimoto desired.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

NaruHina and SasuSaku WASN'T this game plan he had been going for a long time. 

He was on a fence about shitting on both of those pairings for NaruSaku. 

NaruSaku is in a WAY better position than the Zutarians and the Harmonians. 

No other mangaka would make those two shitty pairings happen.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> Its the theme of not giving up on people, no matter what people can still be redeemed can still be loved. That's the message I think kish is trying to convey.
> 
> Don't try and twist this to something that its not. Even kishi's assistant seemed to be trying to say the manga's message is simple.



Why are posting common sense? This type of post isn't allowed in the Library  You're supposed to take the interview out of context in order to make Sakura look bad.


----------



## Plague (Nov 20, 2014)

I think we are understanding him wrong (maybe) lol. 

I think what Kishi meant is that switching to Naruto would make her look shallow. Like she only likes him because of all the things he had accomplished recently. 

NaruHina being the original plan is confirmed. Being on the fence about NaruSaku is natural considering all the time the two spent together, but at the end of the day, I kinda always knew Kishi was planning on it to be Hinata in the end.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Kishimoto should become a marriage counsellor.



I legit lol'd.

I'm pro-NH, but I still know just how bad SS is for Sakura's character on many different levels. And it's really sad that Kishi had to do that to her. I think maybe LeeSaku would have been a better way to go, tbh. Would have been random as hell, but not being paired with Sasuke honestly would have raised respect for her character among countless fans. Unfortunately, it would have pissed off many more, and Kishi is obviously a businessman at heart rather than a writer.


----------



## ShinobisWill (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm no feminist, but to not see what's wrong with Kishi's comment would make me genuinely stupid or absolutely blinded by my ship preference to see what was wrong with this statement. 

Sakura would be a "terrible woman" to give up on Sasuke. That's what Kishi's telling us. That's also the justification for SasuSaku, apparently. No SasuSaku fans mad about this, apparently? No sense of pride or anything for your ships confirmation being reduced to "Sakura would be terrible to give up" by the author himself rather than "this is why she never gave up!", eh?


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Holy cock-balls there's a lot of people viewing this thread.


----------



## Zyrax (Nov 20, 2014)




----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This is stupid.
> 
> People know this already.
> 
> What people are saying is it's a twisted way to try and express the themes Kishimoto desired.



Kage Summit was a big fiasco and I'm not going to walk around it.

I think the better way to handle it was to tell Sakura about Uchiha massacre.

But alas.

469 shows all reasons why her falling for him was bad. He is just stating what we've known already.

Reactions are quite exaggerated honestly.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Zyrax said:


>



The salt is strong in this one....


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Plague said:


> I think we are understanding him wrong (maybe) lol.
> 
> I think what Kishi meant is that switching to Naruto would make her look shallow. Like she only likes him because of all the things he had accomplished recently.




The problem lies less with Kishimoto's views on women and more on that he doesn't think Sasuke did anything wrong.


Basically, this is "OBITO IS THE COOLEST GUY" in a different form.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> Kage Summit was a big fiasco and I'm not going to walk around it.
> 
> I think the better way to handle it was to tell Sakura about Uchiha massacre.
> 
> ...



You are...not seeing people's issue at all are you?

Look, yeah that would make her look bad but it says a lot that he thinks his portrayal of her isn't of a 'terrible woman' as well. The fact that he thinks that would make her worse of a character than what he has done with her is why people look upon him as having a very twisted perception of women. Why did it just have to be moving on to Naruto, for example? Why not just move on?


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 20, 2014)

posting in todays pairing shitstorm thread.


----------



## Tiller (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This is stupid.
> 
> People know this already.
> 
> What people are saying is it's a twisted way to try and express the themes Kishimoto desired.



It was horribly written and executed, and honestly is in conflict with other themes written in this story. We are suppose to believe there are "no bad guys" in this world just people "in dark places". In the same story where a secondary character took revenge for his teacher's death by beheading an immortal and burying said head under a tons of rubble. Give him an existence that must yearn for the sweet release of death by that point.

So you know if someone fucks with your friends or family, make sure they have an existence worse then death. Unless they are good looking and a  former friend... then save them no matter what horrible things they do! Murder, torturer, attempted murder, being an accomplice to starting a world war, and trying to set up a military dictatorship with you as king... all is forgiven! And not just with Sasuke, but with Madara and Obito as well.

The fact that this story doesn't even have a villain anymore is another huge problem, which looks small in comparison to the message that domestic abuse is noble. 

You can divide this story up into as simple of a theme all you want, but in the end those excuses just make the weakness of this story even more obvious to the reader.


----------



## ShinobisWill (Nov 20, 2014)

I say this as a NaruHina supporter:

If the theme is "Never give up", why did Naruto give up on Sakura? 

Do not equate Sakura's love for Sasuke to her desire to bring Sasuke back. Bringing Sasuke back, still holding a place for him in her heart even platonically would be "not giving up" on Sasuke. Sakura did not need to fuck Sasuke in order to "not give up" on him. 

But to Kishi, apparently Sakura basically needed to love Sasuke, lest she be terrible and a quitter.


----------



## pumkin1988 (Nov 20, 2014)

Don't really reply much but I just had to post something this time around

I wouldn't hate Naruto/Hinata so much & dislike Sasuke/Sakura so much if it wasn't for all those times he was talking to Minato & Kushina and all those flashbacks/parallels we had. Plus the whole Sakura confessions she kept saying she would help Naruto if the going got tough and kill Sasuke (we all know she'd betray Naruto in a heartbeat and in a way she did during the war)

I mean Kushina basically told him to find someone like herself. Hinata is the TOTAL OPPOSITE of what Kushina is. It was clearly hinted she was talking (without knowing) about Sakura and it was clear Naruto was thinking of Sakura (& inner sakura)

Then we have Minato who says if he has a gf and then the way it was set up if I remember correctly he either has a thought bubble of thinking of Sakura (NOT Hinata) or the next panel shows Sakura which again HEAVILY IMPLIES he's still in love with Sakura

Also don't forget the whole SasukexKakashi (& Sakura) fight. Naruto saved Sakura like a boss last minute before she was going to be murdered yet she still goes with Sasuke?

And I just want to state I don't hate Hinata. I'm fine he's with Hinata as I think her confession was beautiful but everyone can agree she got shitty treatment. He basically ignores her for a couple years while still fantasizing about Sakura. There is another thread that sums up my feelings titled something like "So Hinata is a second choice?"

If the author/editors knew Sakura was going to end up with Sasuke anyway why even add Karin as a character and potential lover of Sasuke? For another love triangle? Pathetic


----------



## Bellville (Nov 20, 2014)

Zynn said:


> Ehh, if she wasn't being shallow as you called it then Sasuke would have died in the Summit Arc. Probably for the better, but I really don't know how the plot would have gone if that happened, though.


 Even if she was over him romantically she still could have fumbled upon recalling Team 7. With the way Kishi wrote about Sakura's antics following that, it sounds like he had considered every possible advantage Sakura had and made it useless i.e. with the poison comment.



> Holy shit, this again? Sasuke already made it clear from Sai/Sasuke Arc that he no longer want anything to do with Naruto and Sakura. Calling it an unhealthy when there's barely any relationship at all between them besides Naruto's and Sakura's single mindedness to bring him back to Konoha is a bit too much.


It is very unhealthy, what the fuck are you on about? Naruto and Sakura chasing after someone who wants nothing to do with them and has been trying to kill them ISN'T unhealthy? 

And here I thought I was avoiding this silliness by avoiding the use of the word "abusive". Yeesh. Can't even admit it was fucked up?


----------



## Revolution (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishi: absense makes the heart grow fonder



OMG, I really wanted a better reason dead


----------



## TRN (Nov 20, 2014)

ShinobisWill said:


> I say this as a NaruHina supporter:
> 
> If the theme is "Never give up", why did Naruto give up on Sakura?
> 
> ...



Sakura was naruto goal?  That news to me


----------



## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Rios said:


> I am just curious how much more smackdown Sakura will receive. Its been astonishing even for a long time hater like myself.



how will she receive a proper smack down when sasuke isn't even at home most of the time


----------



## AceBizzle (Nov 20, 2014)

ShinobisWill said:


> I say this as a NaruHina supporter:
> 
> If the theme is "Never give up", why did Naruto give up on Sakura?
> 
> ...



For Kishi's next manga, he needs to hire a freakin' writer.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

ShinobisWill said:


> I say this as a NaruHina supporter:
> 
> If the theme is "Never give up", why did Naruto give up on Sakura?
> 
> ...



Kishimoto failed to realize with those matters comes balance. That for nearly every virtue, there's a vice that is a mirror to it.

Perseverance is a virtue for example, but without sense or reason, it becomes obsession. 

Devotion is a virtue, but without sense or reason, it becomes fanaticism.

You could go on and on.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> NaruHina and SasuSaku WASN'T this game plan he had been going for a long time.
> 
> He was on a fence about shitting on both of those pairings for NaruSaku.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure fully about the Harmonians as I barely payed attention to shipping stuff when reading Harry Potter, except remembering that when reading it was fairly obvious that Ron and Hermione would get together. It helps that with a book, we are reading from the characters POV with their thoughts. Zutara however was just rather wishful thinking, even though its my preferred ATLA pairing though I don't really ship it in that I look up material for it, I just liked their interactions and the idea of them as a couple.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Is there a translator in this thread? More of the interview is in the discussion thread for the movie


----------



## Revolution (Nov 20, 2014)

This actually makes me mad.  He can't have Sakura be anything more then a two-dementional "she was really all about Sasuke"!  She can't have aspirations to be a better person or a groundbreaking doctor or a good Shinobi or happy wih her life.  She is just "all about Sasuke".  Not even "she loves Sasuke" but only "all about" Sasuke.  

.  

I can't 

All I've ever wanted was Naruto to be deep and intelligent 
Joke is on me


----------



## Romanticide (Nov 20, 2014)

where is the source on this? Not sure i trust this...


----------



## ShadowFox88 (Nov 20, 2014)

This is turning into a hollow victory for NH/SS shippers.

Yeah, you all won.

But at what cost?


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 20, 2014)

Like the fake confession wasn't obvious enough  



Turrin said:


> Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...


----------



## Zynn (Nov 20, 2014)

Bellville said:


> It is very unhealthy, what the fuck are you on about? Naruto and Sakura chasing after someone who wants nothing to do with them and has been trying to kill them ISN'T unhealthy?
> 
> And here I thought I was avoiding this silliness by avoiding the use of the word "abusive". Yeesh. Can't even admit it was fucked up?



Mmhm. The word I'd use here is 'stupidly stubborn' and 'hopelessly naive'. They're just kids, after all. Their obliviousness to unhealthy relationship is pretty realistic, in my opinion. Lots of cases like that happen in real life too, after all. 




ChickenPotPie said:


> The problem lies less with Kishimoto's views on women and more on that he doesn't think Sasuke did anything wrong.
> 
> 
> Basically, this is "OBITO IS THE COOLEST GUY" in a different form.



Well, at least after his defeat he tried to walk the path of redemption, and if ch 700 is any indication, he never stopped doing that even after 15 years. That should count for something, right?


----------



## icemaster143 (Nov 20, 2014)

Whelp.

Kind of funny how he could thinks that Sakura turning away from a man trying to kill her would make her a terrible character.

I feel Sorry for pairing fans who devoted their time when they had a guy that thinks like this at the helm.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

ShinobisWill said:


> I say this as a NaruHina supporter:
> 
> If the theme is "Never give up", why did Naruto give up on Sakura?


 Naruto had a crush on Sakura. It's been established that his feelings for her were "feint"



> Do not equate Sakura's love for Sasuke to her desire to bring Sasuke back. Bringing Sasuke back, still holding a place for him in her heart even platonically would be "not giving up" on Sasuke.



Did you read 693? Everything you just wrote here was said by Kakashi. Sakura's second confession to Sasuke wasn't so that he would return her feelings, but an attempt to save him, and stop his descent into darkness.



> But to Kishi, apparently Sakura basically needed to love Sasuke, lest she be terrible and a quitter.


Kishi's point went over you head. This isn't what he means at all.


@Revlolution. Stop, just stop. You who shipped SK have no right to talk about a "two dimensional" female being all about Sasuke.  You're hypocrisy and delusion is truly astounding.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> The problem lies less with Kishimoto's views on women and more on that he doesn't think Sasuke did anything wrong.
> 
> 
> Basically, this is "OBITO IS THE COOLEST GUY" in a different form.


The problem lies deeply with both. The Obito thing is an apt comparison though and I'm saying that as someone who likes Obito.



Narutossss said:


> posting in todays pairing shitstorm thread.


This is more of a Kishi doesn't know how to write woman+Sakura is a terrible character thread but those basically are so deeply intertwined with how bad SS is and how bad Sasuke as a character is as well as how fucked up it is that his crimes are just handwaved away.


----------



## T7 Bateman (Nov 20, 2014)

TRN said:


> Sakura was naruto goal?  That news to me



Exactly!!! SAKURA WAS NEVER A GOAL OF NARUTOS. To think otherwise is just to have low reading comprehension imo.

Naruto's goals as listed:
1.Become Hokage(Achieved)
2.Be loved and acknowleged(Achieved)
3.Bring Sasuke back(Achieved)

Loving Sakura was never a goal. He never even loved her! His crush on Sakura was a desire, not a goal. It would have been a bonus for him in Part 1 but obviously in Part 2 that desire faded along with all NaruSaku dreams haha.

An as an NH fan since Day 1, I don't think anyone understands how awesome it feels to finally be validated after 15 years of arguing what was right in front of us. I was called wrong, stupid, delusional, and other degraded things by NaruSaku fans all over the years for shipping NH. Well guess what? IT FEELS GOOD TO BE RIGHT!! BRAG ON FELLOW NH FANS. We deserved it.


----------



## Revolution (Nov 20, 2014)

Lol,  actually trying real hard to like SS, but nothing makes me dislike it more then Kishimoto himself.  It's the most non romantic pairing in existence and we are not even shown them together in the end



My god, should have hired a fanfiction writer to come up with a better ending of those two then what we got.


----------



## TRN (Nov 20, 2014)

ShadowFox88 said:


> This is turning into a hollow victory for NH/SS shippers.
> 
> Yeah, you all won.
> 
> But at what cost?



it ok shadowfox	

You been salty for a while


----------



## Kathutet (Nov 20, 2014)




----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Revolution said:


> Lol,  actually trying real hard to like SS, but nothing makes me dislike it more then Kishimoto himself.  It's the most non romantic pairing in existence and we are not even shown them together in the end
> 
> 
> 
> My god, should have hired a fanfiction writer to come up with a better ending of those two then what we got.


Again you spout more hypocrisy.


----------



## Yahiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Out of pairings threads are born, salt is born,  hatred is born and we are able know pain.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

As an NH fan, there was no cost. Sakura could have been paired with someone else to create a better ending for her. No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NH other than the lack of moments. Actually, a better way to phrase it, is that there is nothing morally repulsive about NH at all. It's a great pairing. And it's totally independent of SS. That is, they are only mutually inclusive by one's own personal fanfiction.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

MOHAMMAD SAQIB said:


> Out of pairings threads are born, salt is born,  hatred is born and we are able know pain.



This shippers shall know Pain !



Lucky Rue said:


> As an NH fan, there was no cost. Sakura could have been paired with someone else to create a better ending for her. No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NH other than the lack of moments. Actually, a better way to phrase it, is that there is nothing morally repulsive about NH at all. It's a great pairing. And it's totally independent of SS. That is, they are only mutually inclusive by one's own personal fanfiction.



Agree with this.


----------



## Hitt (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> As an NH fan, there was no cost. Sakura could have been paired with someone else to create a better ending for her. No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NH other than the lack of moments. Actually, a better way to phrase it, is that there is nothing morally repulsive about NH at all. It's a great pairing. And it's totally independent of SS. That is, they are only mutually inclusive by one's own personal fanfiction.



This.  So many times this.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> As an NH fan, there was no cost. Sakura could have been paired with someone else to create a better ending for her. No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NH other than the lack of moments. Actually, a better way to phrase it, is that there is nothing morally repulsive about NH at all. It's a great pairing. And it's totally independent of SS. That is, they are only mutually inclusive by one's own personal fanfiction.



Except for it being a great pairing, I agree.


----------



## Kenny Florian (Nov 20, 2014)

So the whole purpose of Sakura's character was to suck Sasuke's dick? How can people like this character or think Kishi is a good writer. Lel.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Except for it being a great pairing, I agree.



So why can't it be a great pairing, Seto?


----------



## DemonBorn4569 (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> As an NH fan, there was no cost. Sakura could have been paired with someone else to create a better ending for her. No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NH other than the lack of moments. Actually, a better way to phrase it, is that there is nothing morally repulsive about NH at all. It's a great pairing. And it's totally independent of SS. That is, they are only mutually inclusive by one's own personal fanfiction.



She should have ended up with Lee and Sasuke should have become a real nomad and lone wanderer who's redemption is found in the unfulfillment of his goal (to revive his clan), at the end of the day one of the main antagonists ends up having just as happy a life as the main protagonist who wanted NOTHING but to make the world a better place.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> As an NH fan, there was no cost. Sakura could have been paired with someone else to create a better ending for her. No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NH other than the lack of moments. Actually, a better way to phrase it, is that there is nothing morally repulsive about NH at all. It's a great pairing. And it's totally independent of SS. That is, they are only mutually inclusive by one's own personal fanfiction.



> Spends 700 chapters in love with one guy.
>"No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura"

Yes. Because ending up with someone random in the last chapter would somehow add development to 699 chapters of loving Sasuke. Had she ended up with someone like Lee (Lol) then what would be the point of the past 699 chapters?


----------



## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

Nothing wrong with SS. 

it really shouldnt be called abuse, but because their fights were so one-sided that people find it easier to call it that.

and thats what really annoyed most people. she never grew a backbone, she came across as being a damsel caught in the cross fire between her love and village, but that wasnt the case. she was supposed to be hunting him.

why have her take such up such responsibility and then have her feelings compromise her missions and interactions with team-mates? i say this aspect of her story had potential if kishi actually bothered to develop her character but he didnt.

all we got was her confronting him, failing and sasuke doing what an oponent would do in such a situation fight/escape...he chose to fight though


----------



## Catalyst75 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Kishimoto failed to realize with those matters comes balance. That for nearly every virtue, there's a vice that is a mirror to it.
> 
> Perseverance is a virtue for example, *but without sense or reason, it becomes obsession*.
> 
> ...



That is why we have Karin - she is obsessed to the point of fanaticism with Sasuke, and it is meant to contrast with what Kishimoto depicts as Sakura's "Perseverance" and "Devotion".


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> > Spends 700 chapters in love with one guy.
> >"No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura"
> 
> Yes. Because ending up with someone random in the last chapter would somehow add development to 699 chapters of loving Sasuke. Had she ended up with someone like Lee (Lol) then what would be the point of the past 699 chapters?



She could've flown solo tho 

That's another option.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> So why can't it be a great pairing, Seto?



Characters like Hinata are boring, and I dislike Naruto.


----------



## Hehas (Nov 20, 2014)

This salt

Kishi is so awesome


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> That is why we have Karin - she is obsessed to the point of fanaticism with Sasuke, and it is meant to contrast with what Kishimoto depicts as Sakura's "Perseverance" and "Devotion".



Except Sakura looks obsessed and without dignity or self-respect.


----------



## Tiller (Nov 20, 2014)

Kenny Florian said:


> So the whole purpose of Sakura's character was to suck Sasuke's dick? How can people like this character or think Kishi is a good writer. Lel.



Because that's all they wanted Sakura to do in the first place. All the abuse she suffered doesn't matter, if she didn't hit the Uchiha dick she was a horrible person. Because you know she had a crush on him when she was starting middle school.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Hydro Spiral said:


> She could've flown solo tho
> 
> That's another option.



Which would have made her "lose" to Ino, and still have made the past 699 chapters pointless.


----------



## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

ShadowFox88 said:


> This is turning into a hollow victory for NH/SS shippers.
> 
> Yeah, you all won.
> 
> *But at what cost? *



countless hours reading fanfics, broken friendships, trolling the living shit out of everyone, spending days writing book long posts......... all for two pairings that only one (the unpopular one) got exactly 2 pages in the last 2 chapters ck 

oh yeah, and the other one is getting a movie they will only see when the DVD releases....... about 1o months from now....... when most of them have moved on or dont give a shit anymore.


so worth it


----------



## Bishamon (Nov 20, 2014)

MOHAMMAD SAQIB said:


> Out of pairings threads are born, salt is born,  hatred is born and we are able know pain.



You have not experienced true pain until you become a shipper in this fandom 



Lucky Rue said:


> As an NH fan, there was no cost. Sakura could have been paired with someone else to create a better ending for her. No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NH other than the lack of moments. Actually, a better way to phrase it, is that there is nothing morally repulsive about NH at all. It's a great pairing. And it's totally independent of SS. That is, they are only mutually inclusive by one's own personal fanfiction.



I agree with everything in this. I've never personally understood the inclusion that NH/SS fandoms seem to have of one another (Other than "everyone whose in love gets someone in the end" and stuff like that); I cannot fathom why so many people like them together when they're polar opposites in so many ways that it's actually kind of disgusting how compared to one another they are. One features two individuals who have never at any point (At least in the manga anyway) actually harmed the other in anyway, while the other is an assault on morality.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> > Spends 700 chapters in love with one guy.
> >"No need to act like SS or NS were the only options for Sakura"
> 
> Yes. Because ending up with someone random in the last chapter would somehow add development to 699 chapters of loving Sasuke. Had she ended up with someone like Lee (Lol) then what would be the point of the past 699 chapters?



To show that Sakura would have finally gained some self-respect.

Checkmate.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Characters like Hinata are boring, and I dislike Naruto.



I guess that makes sense from some point of view. At least (I assume, anyway) you can agree that it's not morally repulsive.


----------



## Tiller (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Characters like Hinata are boring, and I dislike Naruto.



It seems obvious now that Kishimoto decided to keep Hinata around in case he decided not to put Sakura and Naruto together. She's a great silver medal, and that's what she is designed to be. She has big tits, is complete submissive, defends her man no matter what, is from an important family, and thinks of nothing but him. In fact she seems to be the ultimate Japanese beta male's wish fulfillment.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...




I see you are still reading things with your ass Turrin.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> People are so stuck on the wording that they bypass the meaning and go straight into rage mode.
> 
> Let's take the names out the equation since people seem to see red as soon as you say N*****, S******, S*****.
> 
> ...



Why are you attempting to be logical?   I just don't understand why you aren't raging like 90% of the thread. Critical thinking and reading comprehension isn't allowed here.


----------



## Rindaman (Nov 20, 2014)

People are so stuck on the wording that they bypass the meaning and go straight into rage mode.

Let's take the names out the equation since people seem to see red as soon as you say N*****, S******, S*****.

Girl A loves Boy B, finds Boy C annoying.

Boy C becomes a badass and an all around well respected figure of the Shinobi World.

Boy B strays from the good path and becomes a misguided , destructive person serving Bonds with anyone he cares for.

Girl A decides to switch her feelings from Boy B to C only because he's the better man_ now._


Is that not shallow as fuck or am I high?


----------



## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

its shallow if the switch had everything to do with the no.1 spot and all the goodies it brings, and nothing to do with Boy A or Boy B.

depends on the intentions really.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> To show that Sakura would have finally gained some self-respect.
> 
> Checkmate.



People like you confuse him. It's one thing to not ship anything and say that, but for a NaruHina fan, a presumed ally, to say such things!? It just doesn't fit with the simple-minded dichotomies! How can you be accused of being salty now...?



> I guess that makes sense from some point of view. At least (I assume, anyway) you can agree that it's not morally repulsive.



I did say I agree with everything except it being a great pairing. I have no moral qualms with it.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> That is why we have Karin - she is obsessed to the point of fanaticism with Sasuke, and it is meant to contrast with what Kishimoto depicts as Sakura's "Perseverance" and "Devotion".


He failed spectacularly if that was his intent. If you truly think about Sakura's "love" for Sasuke, their interactions, their ages and the time periods in between interactions especially the timeskip, then she comes off as obsessed with Sasuke to the point of fanaticism even worse than Karin does. Her obsession and fanaticism are not super in your face like Karin's but they are definitely there.

You disappoint me Seto. There are many better reasons for why NH isn't a great pairing, lack of healthy conflict and chemistry chief among them.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Nov 20, 2014)

If I was taking the point seriously, I'd have gone into a lot more detail.  

Like this:

 I do believe it is a matter of the values of Japan being at work here.

The Japanese take matters such as love much more seriously than the West.  If Sakura switched from loving Sasuke to loving Naruto mid-manga, have you considered how a Japanese audience might think of that?  When I think back to her false 'confession' during the Kage Summit arc, I see precisely what would be wrong with NaruSaku had it happened - with what was said in that confession being "true" and not a ruse. 

Sasuke was no longer the "cool boy" because he is now a criminal, and Naruto was the "hero of the village".  It is quite superficial when you look at it like that.  Perhaps Kishimoto thought it'd be better for the character if she stood by her feelings for Sasuke and had them be genuine, rather than always having been some shallow, school-girl crush that was easily replaced by Naruto becoming "the hero of the village". 

I think that is why Kishi must have thought it would make Sakura look bad - how shallow it would depict her feelings as being. 

The situation with Sasuke is a bit more complicated than the "abusive boyfriend" angle a lot of people here tend to see it as.  We are talking about someone who had perceived his bonds with others to be a "weakness" that prevented him from achieving his goals, not to mention the fact that he is also from a Clan that is completely dominated by their emotions, and that evolving the Sharingan only serves to cause certain emotions to worsen in the individual. 

Sasuke only really became at peace with himself when he finally acknowledged that he understood Naruto's feelings, and admitted that Naruto was stronger. 

Kishimoto described Sasuke as "pure" in regards to his personality, as in he is pure-mindedly focused (remembering that "pure" doesn't mean "good", but "untainted") on whatever goals he has set for himself, to a terrifying extent at times.

Once Sasuke acknowledged that he understood how Naruto felt and conceded defeat - no longer chained to his path of "becoming the darkness" that all people are united against - we saw again the personality that we had caught glimpses of throughout the story, but was always buried underneath his feelings of anger or desire for vengeance.

Besides, the Japanese take the notion of friendship very seriously, which is why it is such a big part of Naruto's motivations for wanting to free Sasuke from his hate.


----------



## T7 Bateman (Nov 20, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> People are so stuck on the wording that they bypass the meaning and go straight into rage mode.
> 
> Let's take the names out the equation since people seem to see red as soon as you say N*****, S******, S*****.
> 
> ...



This. This is the reason why I found NaruSaku repulsive because that's exactly how the scenario would be. Sakura trashed Naruto for the better part of Part 1. Come Part 2, now she's all over his jock because she now realizes how much of a badass he is. Nevermind the fact that she used to credit Sasuke with Naruto's achievements(ie. Naruto vs, Gaara). Nevermind the fact that she was willing to leave with Sasuke in Part 1. Nevermind the fact that she obviously loves Sasuke and always did. 

Sakura's love for Sasuke was ultimately the only thing that made me like her, cause she was devoted to her heart and the man she gave it to. Was he perfect? No, and neither is their relationship but no matter what atrocities Sasuke committed Sakura stuck by him. It's admirable imo. Just like Hinata's love for Naruto is also admirable.


----------



## ShinobisWill (Nov 20, 2014)

Not having SasuSaku goggles equates to poor reading comprehension, I guess.

Please tell me where I can buy a pair of these goggles.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> To show that Sakura would have finally gained some self-respect.
> 
> Checkmate.
> 
> ...



> Implying Kishi thinks she lacks any to begin with.

In the end Sakura got the man she wanted (unlike Ino), became a top notch Konouchi, and helped save the world. I don't see the problem


----------



## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

> People are so stuck on the wording that they bypass the meaning and go straight into rage mode.
> 
> Let's take the names out the equation since people seem to see red as soon as you say N*****, S******, S*****.
> 
> ...



How is that shallow? She changed her feelings because Boy B's personality is completely different than before and he is now a stone cold killer. It seems like the only reason she likes Sasuke is because his name is Sasuke because no matter what he does or how he acts she loves him.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You are...not seeing people's issue at all are you?
> 
> Look, yeah that would make her look bad but it says a lot that he thinks his portrayal of her isn't of a 'terrible woman' as well. The fact that he thinks that would make her worse of a character than what he has done with her is why people look upon him as having a very twisted perception of women. Why did it just have to be moving on to Naruto, for example? Why not just move on?



Naruto's "love" and Sakura's love was no where equal to each other.

Manga also made this clear.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> Naruto's "love" and Sakura's love was no where equal to each other.
> 
> Manga also made this clear.



That in no way addresses anything I stated. So are you being dishonest on purpose, or do you not get what people are saying here?


----------



## Blu-ray (Nov 20, 2014)

Is getting the point Kishi tries to make such a difficult task?

He's not saying moving on or anything like that would make her terrible in itself, but after all the devotion she had towards Sasuke for such a long period, while never giving Naruto the time of day for the longest time, instantly flipping the script to Naruto would make her look shallow and fickle.

And how could it not? This is the exact same thing that played out during the failfession and this was the general opinion of her back then because of it.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> If I was taking the point seriously, I'd have gone into a lot more detail.
> 
> Like this:
> 
> ...





T7 Bateman said:


> This. This is the reason why I found NaruSaku repulsive because that's exactly how the scenario would be. Sakura trashed Naruto for the better part of Part 1. Come Part 2, now she's all over his jock because she now realizes how much of a badass he is. Nevermind the fact that she used to credit Sasuke with Naruto's achievements(ie. Naruto vs, Gaara). Nevermind the fact that she was willing to leave with Sasuke in Part 1. Nevermind the fact that she obviously loves Sasuke and always did.
> 
> Sakura's love for Sasuke was ultimately the only thing that made me like her, cause she was devoted to her heart and the man she gave it to. Was he perfect? No, and neither is their relationship but no matter what atrocities Sasuke committed Sakura stuck by him. It's admirable imo. Just like Hinata's love for Naruto is also admirable.



Both of you take my rep.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

thehumangod1 said:


> How is that shallow? She changed her feelings because Boy B's personality is completely different than before and he is now a stone cold killer. It seems like the only reason she likes Sasuke is because his name is Sasuke because no matter what he does or how he acts she loves him.



Why didn't she loved him before ? He was always the better man.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Tiller said:


> It seems obvious now that Kishimoto decided to keep Hinata around in case he decided not to put Sakura and Naruto together. She's a great silver medal, and that's what she is designed to be. She has big tits, is complete submissive, defends her man no matter what, is from an important family, and thinks of nothing but him. In fact she seems to be the ultimate Japanese beta male's wish fulfillment.



What the fuck is this shit? Silver medal? Oh my fucking god that's rich. I would hate to find a woman who like, loves me and stuff. And who's more feminine in both her personality and body. Goodness, that's just such a loser thing to do.

You sound like a SJW trying to use PUA terminology. And that's fucking hilarious.


----------



## T7 Bateman (Nov 20, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> Is getting the point Kishi tries to make such a difficult task?
> 
> He's not saying moving on or anything like that would make her terrible in itself, but after all the devotion she had towards Sasuke for such a long period, while never giving Naruto the time of day for the longest time, instantly flipping the script to Naruto would make her look shallow and fickle.
> 
> And how could it not? This is the exact same thing that played out during the failfession and this was the general opinion of her back then because of it.



Apparently Kishi's writing is difficult if many can't seem to understand that. Then again a lot has been misread over the years, even some simple issues such as is that.


----------



## Rindaman (Nov 20, 2014)

N120 said:


> its shallow if the switch had everything to do with the no.1 spot and all the goodies it brings, and nothing to do with Boy A or Boy B.
> 
> depends on the intentions really.



But it would. I'm speaking from the perspective of  our full knowledge from  the Summit/Iron Country arc being 100% canon at that point. Sakura made it perfectly clear what could make her fall in love with Naruto if she got over Sasuke and it was the most shallow piece of drivel Ive ever read.

Even if the confession was fake, do you really think telling a guy that you love him now since He's the _hero_ now and Sasuke the _criminal _ means its not shallow?

This is what Kishi means would make Sakura terrible woman. Her crush started on Sasuke may have started out as being superficial since like Ino, all she knew about Sauce was that he was cool and hot. After becoming his Team member she got to know him truly , his cold and distant personality and yet she still loved him, only time it faltered was when he became a full blown enemy of the world.

Kishi's thought process , whether you consider it viable or not is that Sakura would be a terrible Woman if she went from Sasuke to Naruto strictly on the basis that Naruto was the better guy only after he became Konoha's hero.   

Because it's like Kishi's editor said, Naruto's always been himself. Sasuke has always been a dick , even when he was good. If she just all of a sudden changed her feelings based on social stance it would look terribly bad and just confirm most peoples criticisms of her all the back from part 1.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> Is getting the point Kishi tries to make such a difficult task?
> 
> He's not saying moving on or anything like that would make her terrible in itself, but after all the devotion she had towards Sasuke for such a long period, while never giving Naruto the time of day for the longest time, instantly flipping the script to Naruto would make her look shallow and fickle.
> 
> And how could it not? This is the exact same thing that played out during the failfession and this was the general opinion of her back then because of it.



Well if you kept up with what people have said...

How does this make her look any better? It's speaks to Kishimoto's twisted perception that he thinks that the end he made for her as well doesn't degrade her character. Yeah, she would have looked shallow had she done that but this isn't doing her favors either. Also, why did it have to be moving on to Naruto or anyone for that matter? Again, why not just simply move on?



			
				T7 Bateman said:
			
		

> Apparently Kishi's writing is difficult if many can't seem to understand that. Then again a lot has been misread over the years, even some simple issues such as is that.



It isn't. You people are deliberately ignoring the point people have raised.


----------



## Meat (Nov 20, 2014)

Really... alot of replies on this thread in a short span of time. You can see alot of emotions here. I guess pairings are serious business to the point kishi made the ending like that. Damn... to think there are lots of interesting topics out there on KL. Anyways, guess ill just have to join the fray. ill take a look on these SS/SN/NH/SK and see what i can get out of it.


----------



## Tiller (Nov 20, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> People are so stuck on the wording that they bypass the meaning and go straight into rage mode.
> 
> Let's take the names out the equation since people seem to see red as soon as you say N*****, S******, S*****.
> 
> ...



Sakura didn't need to end up with Naruto. 

That isn't what people are bitching about by in large. You can take NH out of this. Just put it aside for a second no matter your views of that ship.

What the problem is, is that Kishimoto is saying that NO MATTER WHAT Sasuke did to Sakura (the physical and mental trauma, the attempted murders, the mental torture, him being a traitor, him attempting to set himself up as the leader of a fascist dictatorship, him being in alliance with people who tried to destroy her village and everyone she cared about) that Kishimoto would have thought that had she ended up not being with Sasuke that she would be a "terrible woman". 

Whether you like it or not many of us see that as Kishimoto saying that any woman who escapes her abuser, is a terrible human being. In other words if you love someone even if thye are bad for you, you must endure it. So every woman who has been beaten by their partner is having a fulfilling life in Kishimoto's eyes. That's bullshit.

If he was a competent writer he would understand that, and would see that. He could understand how people could get that message by what he wrote.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lel, Seto must have me on his Ignore list. Only addresses my posts if someone else is quoting me. 

Stay salty my friend.  Stay salty. ..


----------



## geG (Nov 20, 2014)

Addy said:


> kishi thinks she is a terrible woman if she had another relationship that is not with the guy who tried to kill her? XD
> 
> 
> kishi,  i just cant :rofl





Zef said:


> Falling for Naruto when she confessed to Sasuke(Again) 7 chapters ago would have been retarted.



Why not go with neither


----------



## nightmistress (Nov 20, 2014)

ShinobisWill said:


> Not having SasuSaku goggles equates to poor reading comprehension, I guess.
> 
> Please tell me where I can buy a pair of these goggles.



Here you can borrow mine 


It's a reality even without them sooo...


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

here are japanese reactions to that on twitter > "LOL" "It's a joke" "Kishimoto, what's wrong with you" "Wow, what a beautiful development" "And Naruto what's then? A ignoble man?"

as you can see , kishi is the only one fucked up guys, stop judging japanese people based on this guy


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Geg said:


> Why not go with neither



She would lose to Ino in finding love.


----------



## T7 Bateman (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Well if you kept up with what people have said...
> 
> How does this make her look any better? It's speaks to Kishimoto's twisted perception that he thinks that the end he made for her as well doesn't degrade her character. Yeah, she would have looked shallow had she done that but this isn't doing her favors either. Also, why did it have to be moving on to Naruto or anyone for that matter? Again, why not just simply move on?
> 
> ...



Nobody is deliberately ignoring the point because there is no point to elaborate on. Sakura switching over to Naruto after continuously proclaiming and showing to be in love with Sasuke is pretty shallow, especially so if the final nail in the coffin was because Sasuke became a worldwide criminal. 

And Sakura moving on is pointless when she will always love Sasuke. Being with Naruto, or Lee, or even being single for life wouldn't have changed that notion. Being alone would have made it worst and being with someone else isn't being fair to the other person.


----------



## Kathutet (Nov 20, 2014)

Just because I'm a huge noob that don't know nuthin'

How legit is this shit tho
Like, when was this interview and where was it published and everything


----------



## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> But it would. I'm speaking from the perspective of  our full knowledge from  the Summit/Iron Country arc being 100% canon at that point. Sakura made it perfectly clear what could make her fall in love with Naruto if she got over Sasuke and it was the most shallow piece of drivel Ive ever read.
> 
> Even if the confession was fake, do you really think telling a guy that you love him now since He's the _hero_ now and Sasuke the _criminal _ means its not shallow?
> 
> ...



i agree with you, forgot about that aspect of her confession.

Like yagami stated "Why didn't she loved him before ? He was always the better man. "


----------



## Rindaman (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Well if you kept up with what people have said...
> 
> How does this make her look any better? It's speaks to Kishimoto's twisted perception that he thinks that the end he made for her as well doesn't degrade her character. Yeah, she would have looked shallow had she done that but this isn't doing her favors either. Also, why did it have to be moving on to Naruto or anyone for that matter? Again, why not just simply move on?
> 
> ...



Doesn't exactly make her look better for loving Sasuke instead of being alone or moving on, it just makes her consistent with the character we've become acquainted with.  Sakura made the choice to have as much faith in Sasuke as Naruto does by standing by her feelings, despite his descent. It's corny shit , but thats Ksihi.

The moment Sakura revised her intent to see Team 7 "happy" together again, it was a forgone conclusion that she would still pursue Sasuke the moment he became good again.


----------



## Kathutet (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> She would lose to Ino in finding love.



How is this not shallow though? I'm sure there are better reasons.


----------



## geG (Nov 20, 2014)

Kenneth said:


> Just because I'm a huge noob that don't know nuthin'
> 
> How legit is this shit tho
> Like, when was this interview and where was it published and everything



I dunno about where it came from but I can at least vouch that the translation(s) is accurate


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> here are japanese reactions to that on twitter > "LOL" "It's a joke" "Kishimoto, what's wrong with you" "Wow, what a beautiful development" "And Naruto what's then? A ignoble man?"
> 
> as you can see , kishi is the only one fucked up guys, stop judging japanese people based on this guy



> Willfully ignoring the positive reactions. 

Mezzo showed up to the SS FC and posted several positive reactions.  This shit doesn't fool me.


----------



## phoenixblood (Nov 20, 2014)

nightmistress said:


> Here you can borrow mine
> 
> 
> It's a reality even without them sooo...



And the blue and red lenses match the pairing, too!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

T7 Bateman said:


> Nobody is deliberately ignoring the point because there is no point to elaborate on. Sakura switching over to Naruto after continuously proclaiming and showing to be in love with Sasuke is pretty shallow, especially so if the final nail in the coffin was because Sasuke became a worldwide criminal.
> 
> And Sakura moving on is pointless when she will always love Sasuke. Being with Naruto, or Lee, or even being single for life wouldn't have changed that notion. Being alone would have made it worst and being with someone else isn't being fair to the other person.



You just ignored it right here. 

Becoming a criminal is a very good reason to stop pursuing an individual romantically. Yet you keep ignoring that people are saying that, it doesn't have to be Naruto or ANYONE at all. It is twisted that Kishimoto thinks that what makes her a terrible woman would be that and not even realize that just as well, what he made her out to be is too.

No one is disputing events of the story here! It is the way it is, we get it. That doesn't mean it is immune from criticism. Also no, being single wouldn't have made it worse for her. I mean, how so? She would still be his friend in the end. How would it be unfair particularly considering the passage of time, and that you had other characters that loved Sasuke just as long yet moved on?


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## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Geg said:


> Why not go with neither



you have to take a side


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Kenneth said:


> How is this not shallow though? I'm sure there are better reasons.



A female lead not succeeding in getting her love interest while the supporting female character does isn't a good look. 

^This is how I think Kishi views it.


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## jamse1 (Nov 20, 2014)

What people don't understand is that japanese culture is different than us westerners. Basically if Sakura went with another guy after confessing to Sasuke, it would be considered cheating. 

_Fujiwara no Mokou_


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## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> > Willfully ignoring the positive reactions.
> 
> Mezzo showed up to the SS FC and posted several positive reactions.  This shit doesn't fool me.



she/he must have tried hard to find these positive reactions because MANY of them are pissed. i have yet to find a ''positve reaction'' myself.


----------



## Hexa (Nov 20, 2014)

Kenneth said:


> Just because I'm a huge noob that don't know nuthin'
> 
> How legit is this shit tho
> Like, when was this interview and where was it published and everything


It's from Kadokawa's Entermix magazine.  It's not clear when the actual interview took place, but the magazine is officially on sale on Friday in Japan (but, of course, is shipped to stores before that).


----------



## Kurama (Nov 20, 2014)

Gotta love how when Kishi's point is clearly "Sakura suddenly switching to Naruto after being consustently devoted to Sasuke for so long would be a really shitty thing to do" you all try to make it to be about SS and "abuse". In case you overlooked it each time they met Sakura was preparing to confront Sasuke about the path he chose, whether verbally or physically. Having faith that the Sasuke she remembered was still in there isn't immoral. She isn't willing to just go along with whatever he does, that's Karin.



Addy said:


> countless hours reading fanfics, broken friendships, trolling the living shit out of everyone, spending days writing book long posts......... all for two pairings that only one (the unpopular one) got exactly 2 pages in the last 2 chapters ck



2 chapters wrapping up all the story, most of the characters, the primary conflict. Not seeing where the big disappointment should come in when



> oh yeah, and the other one is getting a movie



A 2 hour movie full to bursting with diabeetus.



> they will only see when the DVD releases....... about 1o months from now.......


Only we in the western fandom, and we'll get leaks before then anyway. Besides, we're a relatively patient bunch. We made it through NaruSaku's bullshit for how many years after all.


 when most of them have moved on or dont give a shit anymore.


so worth it [/QUOTE]

Actually we'll get the movie while enjoying the miniseries about their kids.


On the subject of Kishi considering "shitting on NH and SS" you're only reading what you want out of his words to console yourself off of being wrong. Its pretty evident he toyed with NS in the Penis Arc likely at the editors suggestion [he wanted a "love triangle" after all] but maintained that Sakura would be devoted to Sasuke. Naruto at this time was pretty stagnant until Hinata confessed. Kishi's intent was pretty clear. He considered being serious about NS for a fleeting moment but realized how bad an idea it would be and scrapped it, illustrating this thought process in Iron Country. And no this does not upgrade Naruto's crush to love either.


----------



## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Some people are actually saying that if you love someone at one point when he's normal, then later he starts slapping you around and beating the shit out of you, then even later tries to kill you, you shouldn't be able to then fall out of love with said person? People do realize that personality is supposed to be what makes you fall in love right? Not just his name. I doubt the personality of someone who wants to beat on you and kill you is on any woman's wants list for a man.


----------



## ShinobisWill (Nov 20, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> Is getting the point Kishi tries to make such a difficult task?
> 
> He's not saying moving on or anything like that would make her terrible in itself, but after all the devotion she had towards Sasuke for such a long period, while never giving Naruto the time of day for the longest time, instantly flipping the script to Naruto would make her look shallow and fickle.
> 
> And how could it not? This is the exact same thing that played out during the failfession and this was the general opinion of her back then because of it.



Why does the possibility of Sakura ceasing to love Sasuke romantically have anything to do with Naruto directly? If Sakura gets over Sasuke, she can be with whoever she wants as an entirely separate issue from her getting over Sasuke. Or she can be with no one. If she suddenly got with Naruto only because she got over Sasuke, sure, but that's not the way it should happen to begin with.

And Sakura getting over Sasuke doesn't have to mean she gets with Naruto.


----------



## jamse1 (Nov 20, 2014)

thehumangod1 said:


> Some people are actually saying that if you love someone at one point when he's normal, then later he starts slapping you around and beating the shit out of you, then even later tries to kill you, you shouldn't be able to then fall out of love with said person? People do realize that personality is supposed to be what makes you fall in love right? Not just his name. I doubt the personality of someone who wants to beat on you and kill you is on any woman's wants list for a man.


 I agree with you for girls in different countries but love confession culture is different in japan. Once a girl/guy confesses to a guy/girl but try going after another person, it would be considered cheating sadly.


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## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Also to add to my last post; if you guys recall the chapter where Kakashi was giving a monologue on Team 7's current dreams, he said that Sakura was nice for still loving Sasuke despite him trying to kill her. I'm pretty sure Kishi thinks it's good for love and bonds to persevere murder attempts. Thats just how the author sees things


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## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

jamse1 said:


> I agree with you for girls in different countries but love confession culture is different in japan. Once a girl/guy confesses to a guy/girl but try going after another person, it would be considered cheating sadly.



I can tell you that. I did japanese class for two years.
Confessing and go see someone else ? That's a no no. Terrible


----------



## T7 Bateman (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You just ignored it right here.
> 
> Becoming a criminal is a very good reason to stop pursuing an individual romantically. Yet you keep ignoring that people are saying that, it doesn't have to be Naruto or ANYONE at all. It is twisted that Kishimoto thinks that what makes her a terrible woman would be that and not even realize that just as well, what he made her out to be is too.
> 
> No one is disputing events of the story here! No, being single wouldn't have made it worse for her. How so? She would still be his friend in the end. How would it be unfair particularly considering the passage of time, and that you had other characters that loved Sasuke just as long yet moved on?



In the NINJA world, no it's not. Real love is not bounded by social norms or what everyone else can define as acceptable. Sakura knew Sasuke before his descent so just because he has done less than reputable things(although his actions are actually pretty mild in comparison to other atrocties) she should all of sudden stop loving him?? That would have made her shallow! Her feelings would have proven to not be as a deep as proclaimed. Her sticking by and still loving Sasuke and even after all his bs is what brings her character depth, because Sakura is a devoted person. Suddenly giving up her love or switching to another for superficial reasons would make her shallow. Her sticking by Sasuke through thick and thin doesn't make her shallow at all.

Being single would have made it worst. She would just be like Tsunade who, even after all these years, still loves the SAME guy. She didn't go with anybody, and she only even entertained the Jiraya idea after he was dead. Obviously the passage of time is moot because love to characters in this story is forever. And other characters DID NOT love Sasuke, Ino doesn't love him like Sakura does if at all. 

In the end, Sasuke is just the one for Sakura and always has been to her. Her being with him in the end is not her being shallow. I honestly don't even know where that idea even came from.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

jamse1 said:


> What people don't understand is that japanese culture is different than us westerners. Basically if Sakura went with another guy after confessing to Sasuke, it would be considered cheating.
> 
> _Fujiwara no Mokou_



They are also having massive issues of courtship, marriage, and reproduction because of these concepts and expectations...so there is that to consider.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> she/he must have tried hard to find these positive reactions because MANY of them are pissed. i have yet to find a ''positve reaction'' myself.



He gave the reactions as soon as the Japanese got the chapter that Monday. Mezzo has never lied so I'll take his word over yours.


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## Kurama (Nov 20, 2014)

ShinobisWill said:


> Why does the possibility of Sakura ceasing to love Sasuke romantically have anything to do with Naruto directly? If Sakura gets over Sasuke, she can be with whoever she wants as an entirely separate issue from her getting over Sasuke. Or she can be with no one. If she suddenly got with Naruto only because she got over Sasuke, sure, but that's not the way it should happen to begin with.
> 
> And Sakura getting over Sasuke doesn't have to mean she gets with Naruto.



What part of the subject of Kishi's statement exactly being suddenly switching to Naruto after consistently loving Sasuke would look bad are you refusing to comprehend? Naruto IS the subject here, not moving on from Sasuke.


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## Mizura (Nov 20, 2014)

*sigh*

This, I could have respected:
If Kishimoto wanted Sakura to never give up on Sasuke, just like Naruto never gave up on him.

However, the big issue was this:
Naruto not giving up on Sasuke -> Naruto brought Sasuke back.
Sakura not giving up on Sasuke -> Sakura did zilch to bring him back. It was 100% Naruto. She even friggin' said so, that Naruto is the only one who could bring him back.

So basically, Sakura had to be completely devoted to Sasuke, even though her devotion was completely useless and unreciprocated? Yeah, whatever, I'm glad I stopped shipping in this fandom long ago and have moved on to other fandoms with more equal relationships since.


----------



## ShinobisWill (Nov 20, 2014)

Kurama said:


> What part of the subject of Kishi's statement exactly being suddenly switching to Naruto after consistently loving Sasuke would look bad are you refusing to comprehend? Naruto IS the subject here, not moving on from Sasuke.




I understand that the subject is Naruto. What part of me changing the subject outside of Kishi's single blurb of text regarding the subject are you not understanding? Am I not allowed to expand the topic? 

Or is it just easier for you to say "You're expanding/changing the subject" than it is to actually counter my point?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

T7 Bateman said:


> In the NINJA world, no it's not.



The ninja world isn't an amoral place.

You've defeated your own argument since Kishimoto's exact intentions were to connect with themes and concepts of this matter particularly, to reality.

It's particularly contradictory given your statements below in which you try to invoke actual concepts, but it seems you want to try and divorce the story from them when it is inconvenient to what you are attempting to present.



> Real love is not bounded by social norms or what everyone else can define as acceptable.



Every concept comes balanced with another. The matter of love being no different. Especially in this case, balanced with concepts of dignity and self-respect. 



> Sakura knew Sasuke before his descent so just because he has done less than reputable things(although his actions are actually pretty mild in comparison to other atrocties) she should all of sudden stop loving him?? That would have made her shallow! Her feelings would have proven to not be as a deep as proclaimed.



"less than reputable things"...he tried to kill her. Three times. Naruto, even more than that. He's done atrocious things that provide more than enough reason to move on.

It's particularly twisted that you actually think that it would be shallow of Sakura to move on in consideration of such events. It would not have changed the depth of her feelings, it would have simply established that she has a sense of respect and dignity for herself. That like any person, no less the idea of a 'realistic girl', she has a line that can be crossed. That she is not a blindly devoted individual that will take any kind of abuse for the sake of love. 



> Her sticking by and still loving Sasuke and even after all his bs is what brings her character depth, because Sakura is a devoted person.



No it doesn't. Because first of all, her infatuation was built on a shallow basis, and second of all, because that devotion lacks sense and reason, it comes off as obsession.



> Suddenly giving up her love or switching to another for superficial reasons would make her shallow. Her sticking by Sasuke through thick and thin doesn't make her shallow at all.



Who said it had to be sudden? Who said it had to be to anyone at all? This is what I mean, you're ignoring what people are saying. 

Her sticking with Sasuke is what made her look pathetic. Her fixation on Sasuke added no depth, because that is ultimately the only thing about it. 



> Being single would have made it worst. She would just be like Tsunade who, even after all these years, still loves the SAME guy. She didn't go with anybody, and she only even entertained the Jiraya idea after he was dead. Obviously the passage of time is moot because love to characters in this story is forever. And other characters DID NOT love Sasuke, Ino doesn't love him like Sakura does if at all.



No it wouldn't have. Being single wouldn't have done any worse for her character, especially considering the conclusion of it now. Like I said, you're ignoring what people are saying. If she moved on then that means romantically, she does not love Sasuke anymore. That doesn't make her look shallow, particularly in this case it would make her look sensible. 

False. Ino loved Sasuke, even before Sakura did. Lee loved Sakura, they both moved on evidently. 



> In the end, Sasuke is just the one for Sakura and always has been to her. Her being with him in the end is not her being shallow. I honestly don't even know where that idea even came from.



Because it was built on a shallow foundation, and because it ultimately portrays a character that has no sense of dignity or respect for herself.


----------



## jazz189 (Nov 20, 2014)

Okay, looking at the situation independent of Naruto. Sakura deciding to give up her "love" for Sasuke after Sasuke is declared an international criminal, and realizing that he a pretty terrible person, would not make her shallow, it would make her smart, because her "love" for Sasuke had shallow origins anyway. So her realizing this and deciding to stop pursuing him would be the smartest thing she has ever done.

That does not mean that Sakura needs to jump the next penis that she can find, just the opposite, the only way Sakura moving on would work would be if she decided to be alone and I don't know focus on her job as a medic for the rest of part II. That would be preferable to her not moving on from Sasuke.

Bringing Naruto into account yes her switching from Sasuke to Naruto would look shallow as fuck no way to get around that. But that doesn't mean that she still couldn't have gotten over Sasuke like Naruto got over her.


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## Needless2say (Nov 20, 2014)

Smh People are taking stuff waaaay out of context. After reading all these comments, I feel like we were reading two entirely different manga. 
Sakura was hurting because Sasuke was going further and further into the darkness. 
Sasuke attempt to kill Sakura was to show JUST how much he has fallen because of the hatred. Its was bad on Sasuke's character not Sakura's. Why because she still wanting to save her friend, someone who is/was dear to her, just like NARUTO.
Secondly, Sakura didn't want to save him in order for them to "bang". That argument was demolish in I think ch 675 and 693. 

LOL This whole SasuSaku abusive relationship argument kills me because the same logic that is being used for this can be applied to multiple relationships in the manga. Which is why I can't take this serious.
I don't understand why people are flipping their lids over this to this extent. lmao


----------



## Rindaman (Nov 20, 2014)

Holy shit, I just noticed that, when the hell did this become about moving on from Sasuke? 



Kishi's entire comment was pertaining to NarSaku and why that could never work.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> Is getting the point Kishi tries to make such a difficult task?
> 
> He's not saying moving on or anything like that would make her terrible in itself, but after all the devotion she had towards Sasuke for such a long period, while never giving Naruto the time of day for the longest time, instantly flipping the script to Naruto would make her look shallow and fickle.
> 
> And how could it not? This is the exact same thing that played out during the failfession and this was the general opinion of her back then because of it.


1. It didn't have to be instantly flipped the script, nor was it being developed that way. The way Sakura and Naruto's interactions were written in early part 2, it was easy to see that evolving into a romantic relationship. 

2. That general opinion was due to her being doing it out of guilt and one of her lines being twisted to make her look like a gold digger. If the events of early part 2 had progressed to having Sakura start showing more outward romantic feelings for Naruto around the Hunt for Itachi arc, barely anyone would have batted an eyelid.

Kishi is making it out as if it was either immediately be on Naruto's dick or have her stay "faithful" to Sasuke. Far from the only feasible options, he wouldn't have even had to work any more than what he already did as he already laid the foundation and started putting up the form. All he needed to do was complete the house he started.

3. She didn't need to move from Sasuke to Naruto. She could just be with someone else or just be not pairing in the ending.


----------



## ShinobisWill (Nov 20, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> Holy shit, I just noticed that, when the hell did this become about moving on from Sasuke?
> 
> 
> 
> Kishi's entire comment was pertaining to NarSaku and why that could never work.




Kishi's comment about why NaruSaku can't work, for starters, is narrow-minded. Sakura getting over Sasuke does not have to mean *that's the reason she falls for Naruto.*

And secondly, getting over Sasuke is a piece of the subject to begin with. Is it simply impossible for you to defend SasuSaku unless you view it from the angle of "She'd be with Naruto if not Sasuke"?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

> LOL This whole SasuSaku abusive relationship argument kills me because the same logic that is being used for this can be applied to multiple relationships in the manga. Which is why I can't take this serious.



It can and it does, especially with Sasuke's relationships with others. The fact that you admit to this is not refutation of the point. It just brings a question of why are you and others trying to present it as a romantic ideal.


----------



## FlashYoruichi (Nov 20, 2014)




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## Rindaman (Nov 20, 2014)

jazz189 said:


> *Okay, looking at the situation independent of Naruto. Sakura deciding to give up her "love" for Sasuke after Sasuke is declared an international criminal, and realizing that he a pretty terrible person, would not make her shallow, it would make her smart, because her "love" for Sasuke had shallow origins anyway. So her realizing this and deciding to stop pursuing him would be the smartest thing she has ever done.*
> 
> That does not mean that Sakura needs to jump the next penis that she can find, just the opposite, the only way Sakura moving on would work would be if she decided to be alone and I don't know focus on her job as a medic for the rest of part II. That would be preferable to her not moving on from Sasuke.



But that's not in the context Kishi meant it, so why don't we discuss what we can confirm from the interview?  He was basically asked why Narusaku didn't happen, he gave a very realistic answer considering the characters development. All most of you can say?

"Well, she shouldn't of got with Sasuke"  "She should be alone"

It's like, what? That's not up for us, the readers to decide.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

Lolllllll

He shits on everyone here.

He not only claims he was thinking of going with NS but the only reason he didn't go with NS was because of a very distorted view on women. I wonder how the nh fanfom is going to deny this. They're whole pairing is a silver medal. He only considered it as a sideship to ss.

Well, kishi is officially a crackhead. I kinda suspected it already.


----------



## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

^ he said he was on the fence, Hinata still played a role in that pairing department. He eventually stuck with NH as it made more sense.

Naruto sakura finished in chapter 3. He had to henge into the boy she liked only to hear how she didn't like him.

Naruto never really pursued her after that. Kishi never seriously pushed it either, so it makes sense why kishi would make those comments and stick with NH.


----------



## jazz189 (Nov 20, 2014)

ShinobisWill said:


> Kishi's comment about why NaruSaku can't work, for starters, is narrow-minded. Sakura getting over Sasuke does not have to mean *that's the reason she falls for Naruto.*
> 
> And secondly, getting over Sasuke is a piece of the subject to begin with. Is it simply impossible for you to defend SasuSaku unless you view it from the angle of "She'd be with Naruto if not Sasuke"?



The problem is that Part II's timeline makes it so that there wouldn't be much time before Sasuke is declared a criminal and she switches to Naruto.



Rindaman said:


> But that's not in the context Kishi meant it, so why don't we discuss what we can confirm from the interview?  He was basically asked why Narusaku didn't happen, he gave a very realistic answer considering the characters development. All most of you can say?
> 
> "Well, she shouldn't of got with Sasuke"  "She should be alone"
> 
> It's like, what? That's not up for us, the readers to decide.



That's why I followed it up by...


jazz189 said:


> *That does not mean that Sakura needs to jump the next penis that she can find,* just the opposite, the only way Sakura moving on would work would be if she decided to be alone and I don't know focus on her job as a medic for the rest of part II. That would be preferable to her not moving on from Sasuke.
> 
> *Bringing Naruto into account yes her switching from Sasuke to Naruto would look shallow as fuck no way to get around that.* But that doesn't mean that she still couldn't have gotten over Sasuke like Naruto got over her.



The timeline for Part II would make it so that if Sakura switched to Naruto, she'd look Shallow as fuck. because she'd have jumped on the next adequate penis she found.


----------



## santanico (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Lolllllll
> 
> He shits on everyone here.
> 
> ...



I don't care about SS, but as an NH fan I am pleased


----------



## Young Lord Minato (Nov 20, 2014)




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## Plague (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Lolllllll
> 
> He shits on everyone here.
> 
> ...





You got a fucked up way of interpreting things.


----------



## jamse1 (Nov 20, 2014)

"I decided on Hinata quite some time ago. There was a time when I wavered whether it shouldn't be Sakura, but if she changed her mind to Naruto after coming this far, wouldn't she be too cruel a woman (laugh). Besides, I think that in reality Sakura's wholeheartedly into Sasuke either way." This may be a little bit more accurate translation.


----------



## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

In the other thread people were blaming SP and NH fandom for the final outcome, saying they forced kishi to drop NS, when clearly kishi made his own decision.


----------



## Pseudo (Nov 20, 2014)

Hitt said:


> It really is hard to find a worse example when you consider other examples of horrible "heroines" were meant to be done that way.  For instance, Asuka Langley from Evangelion.



You can't really compare the two at all. Asuka is _supposed_ to be a messed up 14 year old. Asuka, is a bitch but she's still a complex and compelling character.

Sakura, on the other hand is a victim of bad writing. Kishi actually thinks her behavior is normal


----------



## Sunako (Nov 20, 2014)

So NaruSaku could have had it allllllll


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Can someone explain to me how Sasuke is abusive when he's clearly changed for the better in 698 & 699?


----------



## santanico (Nov 20, 2014)

N120 said:


> In the other thread people were blaming SP and NH fandom for the final outcome, saying they forced kishi to drop NS, when clearly kishi made his own decision.



yeah, we put a knife to his throat, he had no choice


----------



## Rindaman (Nov 20, 2014)

Ok, here is the money question. 

Why does NF hate Sakura for still loving Sasuke even after he tried to kill her, but not Naruto?

This is coming from  one of the biggest Naruto fans, and I'm not really too big on Sakura's character but I think a lot of the hate is unwarranted.

It all basically amounts to "Sakura is a stupid bitch because she didn't end up with Naruto and or stayed single".


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> Holy shit, I just noticed that, when the hell did this become about moving on from Sasuke?
> 
> 
> 
> Kishi's entire comment was pertaining to NarSaku and why that could never work.


No actually, it's pretty evident that he thought he could make it work, as he had considered changing his plans from NH to NS, but for some reason there was some kind of moral outrage with having Sakura move on from Sasuke. The fact that he only gave a moral outrage as his reasoning to not go with NaruSaku, as well as a consideration of going with NS, just goes to show that he thought that his original intention (NH) was not well founded.


----------



## Overhaul (Nov 20, 2014)

NS is the pairing that got away.
[youtube]Ahha3Cqe_fk[/youtube]


Sunako said:


> So NaruSaku could have had it allllllll


NS to Kishi.


----------



## Hexa (Nov 20, 2014)

We had a chapter where Sakura faked wanting to switch from Sasuke and Naruto reprimanded her.    There was a literally plot line in the story expressing the same belief that Kishimoto reiterated in the interview.

It shouldn't be a shock.  I feel like the more interesting bit is when the pairings were decided.


----------



## Dokiz1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> No actually, it's pretty evident that he thought he could make it work, as he had considered changing his plans from NH to NS, but for some reason there was some kind moral outrage with having Sakura move on from Sasuke. The fact that he only gave a moral outrage as his reasoning to not go with NaruSaku, as well as a consideration of going with NS, just goes to show that he thought that his original intention (NH) was not well founded.



well NH needs a movie after all to be justified, it says alot about their pairing.


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Sunako said:


> So NaruSaku could have had it allllllll


[YOUTUBE]rYEDA3JcQqw[/YOUTUBE]

I can accept this is as the current NS theme song.


----------



## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> Ok, here is the money question.
> 
> Why does NF hate Sakura for still loving Sasuke even after he tried to kill her, but not Naruto?
> 
> ...



Naruto forgives everyone including Obito so it's ok, and Sasuke's dick isn't one of the reasons pushing him to forgive him.

On the other hand, the only reason Sakura forgave Sasuke is because of romantic feelings. I don't lke NS and love NH but I just hate SS because it's portrayed as a good thing that they finally got together after all of Sasuke's murder attempts and how Sakura kept liking him after he kept slapping her around. And most people don't agree that that is a happy ending so seeing it portrayed that way was annoying.


----------



## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

Dokiz1 said:


> well NH needs a movie after all to be justified, it says alot about their pairing.



That could be said for all of them. Everyone got one chapter to conclude pairings, with the aim of having a movie to fill in the blanks. It's really not that hard to accept.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Lolllllll
> 
> He shits on everyone here.
> 
> ...



NH fan here, I couldn't be happier !



N120 said:


> That could be said for all of them.



Because ...  you hates what is animated ?


----------



## -JT- (Nov 20, 2014)

I'd still like a specific time frame, but I'm not stupid, I'll therefore accept that Kishimoto planned NaruHina some time in advance before the end.

However, you can't deny that it still wasn't very well developed, and he did still throw some NaruSaku bones as the series approached the end. 

Also, as many others have said, the 'terrible woman' comment is just ridiculous. Kishimoto really doesn't help himself.


----------



## Rindaman (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> No actually, it's pretty evident that he thought he could make it work, as he had considered changing his plans from NH to NS, but for some reason there was some kind of moral outrage with having Sakura move on from Sasuke. The fact that he only gave a moral outrage as his reasoning to not go with NaruSaku, as well as a consideration of going with NS, just goes to show that he thought that his original intention (NH) was not well founded.



No. He said he simply considered Narusaku. Considering something and changing your plans are too different things. But what am I saying , you're the guy creating your own interviews with Kishi.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

-JT- said:


> I'd still like a specific time frame, but I'm not stupid, I'll therefore accept that Kishimoto planned NaruHina some time in advance before the end.
> 
> However, you can't deny that it still wasn't very well developed, and he did still throw some NaruSaku bones as the series approached the end.
> 
> Also, as many others have said, the 'terrible woman' comment is just ridiculous. Kishimoto really doesn't help himself.



In japan, if you confess to someone and go see someone else after that, it's considered cheating.
And, well, cheating is not cool.


----------



## Pseudo (Nov 20, 2014)

Judging by Naruto and Sasuke's relationship he clearly doesn't understand friendship either. NaruSasu is just as toxic as SasuSaku.

And don't even get me started on the _"Obito is coolest Guy ever "_ bullshit that came out of Naruto's mouth. Dude killed your family and ruined your life for Christ's sake! Kishi doesn't understand how normal people behave at all.


----------



## N120 (Nov 20, 2014)

^.....


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> The fact that he only gave a moral outrage as his reasoning to not go with NaruSaku, as well as a consideration of going with NS, just goes to show that he thought that his original intention (NH) was not well founded.



Huh...?

If he felt it wasn't well founded enough, he could just...Like...Not do it.



Rindaman said:


> No. He said he simply considered Narusaku. Considering something and changing your plans are two different things.



Also this..


----------



## nightmistress (Nov 20, 2014)

Mizura said:


> *sigh*
> 
> This, I could have respected:
> If Kishimoto wanted Sakura to never give up on Sasuke, just like Naruto never gave up on him.
> ...



By that token Kakashi didn't do zilch either, but nobody's complaining that he didn't give up on him.  For most of us that actually ship SasuSaku and have for a long damn time (which of course never included you), 693 being a throwback to 181 was enough to prove he DID feel something, and by 699 he promises he_ will_ reciprocate when he feels he's atoned enough. And FFwd some years later, clearly he did.  I have no problem with Naruto ultimately being the one to bring him out of the darkness (title character, shounen manga, and SasuNaru  bond>>>all...at the time), but Sakura was there to help pick up the pieces and that's still a big deal.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

nightmistress said:


> By that token Kakashi didn't do zilch either, but nobody's complaining that he didn't give up on him.



 Kakashi didn't want anything from it. He was even willing to kill Sasuke outright, the only person with some sense on the team...



> For most of us that actually ship SasuSaku and have for a long damn time (which of course never included you), 693 being a throwback to 181 was enough to prove he DID feel something, and by 699 he promises he_ will_ reciprocate when he feels he's atoned enough. And FFwd some years later, clearly he did.



I bet she like most of us evidently, aren't too keen on idealizing a relationship that has the morally repugnant developments SasuSaku did. What Sasuke or Sakura may have felt being a moot point in consideration of such developments. 



> I have no problem with Naruto ultimately being the one to bring him out of the darkness (title character, shounen manga, and SasuNaru  bond>>>all...at the time), but Sakura was there to help pick up the pieces and that's still a big deal.



She didn't even do that though.


----------



## -JT- (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> In japan, if you confess to someone and go see someone else after that, it's considered cheating.
> And, well, cheating is not cool.



Wait, if the person who was confessed to sees someone else afterwards, they're considered to be cheating even if they don't reciprocate the feelings?


----------



## TItroops (Nov 20, 2014)

Hydro Spiral said:


> Huh...?
> 
> If he felt it wasn't well founded enough, he could just...Like...Not do it.
> .



But he wanted to make naruto a father and seeing as he didnt want to make sakura move on because shed be too horrible moving on from someone who tried to kill her and constantly made her feel like shit throughout the series. Why not giving Naruto to someone that only thinks of giving him babies?


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> Can someone explain to me how Sasuke is abusive when he's clearly changed for the better in 698 & 699?



It's not about that. It's about the fact that the fandom is worshiping a pairing involving a character that was a psychopath for the vast majority of the series, and using his unrealistic change of heart to justify it.

In other words, SS shippers have the same mindset that it takes to like a partner for purely their own interpretation of his/her personality no matter how fucked up he/she is.

The pairing is just something that sane people can't hop on board with. We see this stuff and think "goddamn that girl is stupid." Sure, he changed, but we can't relate to such a stupid decision because we're used to actually making good, sane decisions in life.

*The truly hardcore SS fans are validating a poisonous mindset no matter what they say otherwise.*

*I say this as an NH fan, by the way.


----------



## Suigetsu (Nov 20, 2014)

You know, if he had said "I did it for the money" I wouldnt had blamed him nor anything.

But this answer....

This guy has some really twisted perceptions... How does... Oh my god...
I am literally speecheless.


----------



## Zyrax (Nov 20, 2014)

-JT- said:


> Wait, if the person who was confessed to sees someone else afterwards, they're considered to be cheating even if they don't reciprocate the feelings?


Yes :ignoramus              .


----------



## jamse1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Pseudo said:


> Judging by Naruto and Sasuke's relationship he clearly doesn't understand friendship either. NaruSasu is just as toxic as SasuSaku.
> 
> And don't even get me started on the _"Obito is coolest Guy ever "_ bullshit that came out of Naruto's mouth. Dude killed your family and ruined your life for Christ's sake! Kishi doesn't understand how normal people behave at all.


Yep I agree.


----------



## Rindaman (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishi would have been better off just having Sakura find out about The Massacre from Sasuke himself. Then let that transition into their romantic relationship. I''m sure this was discussed at some time off panel before they have a child. But I think a panel or two like this would have worked wonders for the perception of SS.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

-JT- said:


> Wait, if the person who was confessed to sees someone else afterwards, they're considered to be cheating even if they don't reciprocate the feelings?



You must a least wait for a clear answer before deciding either. It's an unspoken rule over there. The art of confessing is a big deal.


----------



## -JT- (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> You must a least wait for a clear answer before deciding either. It's an unspoken rule over there.



I'm still confused... Who has to answer who?

So Person A confesses to Person B.
Person B doesn't confess in return to Person A.
Person B pursues Person C.

So in Japan, Person B is cheating?


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

-JT- said:


> I'm still confused... Who has to answer who?
> 
> So Person A confesses to Person B.
> Person B doesn't confess in return to Person A.
> ...




No.
Person A is cheating if she goes to see someone else before even having an answer ( Yes or No whatever. ) from Person B
Person A is confessing, Person A takes his own responsabilites for this.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> No. He said he simply considered Narusaku. Considering something and changing your plans are too different things. But what am I saying , you're the guy creating your own interviews with Kishi.


Well, one of the translations says that he was *on a fence*, and another says that he thought about it, so you might be right.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit. He planned NaruHina, OK?



Yagami1211 said:


> Until a clear answer is given, yes, why ?
> 
> No.
> Person A is cheating if she goes to see someone else before even having an answer ( Yes or No whatever. ) from Person B



See this is why Japan is having relationship problems.


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 20, 2014)

yagami, do those rules apply to gaijin hunters too


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Elicit. He planned NaruHina, OK?
> 
> 
> 
> See this is why Japan is having relationship problems.



This kind of deal is most often seen in harem or romance anime.
We rarely see a true love confession in Shonen manga like Naruto.
I mean, I wouldn't expect that from Bleach or One Piece.

Anyway, this is a japan deal. I understand this doesn't translate here very good.



Narutossss said:


> yagami, do those rules apply to gaijin hunters too



I went to japan two ears ago, you know. but I don't think so. We shouldn't talk about this here.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Lol, One Piece already got one, I think. But Luffy is asexual, so the most beautiful woman in the world got rejected. Bleach I could see happening though. Also, I see Bleach pairings being just as developed as Kishi's, only making more sense. For whatever that's worth anyways.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> This kind of deal is most often seen in harem or romance anime.
> We rarely see a true love confession in Shonen manga like Naruto.
> I mean, I wouldn't expect that from Bleach or One Piece.
> 
> Anyway, this is a japan deal. I understand this doesn't translate here very good.



I never liked Harem. I mean, particularly considering it's considered betrayal if any one of the girls stray from the guy, but they can entertain the idea of the guy balancing a group of girls. 

Oda has chosen to forego the concept entirely. Also, I have seen plenty of Japanese media that do the opposite of what you are claiming, saying "I love you" in the sense we in the west would.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I never liked Harem. I mean, particularly considering it's considered betrayal if any one of the girls stray from the guy, but they can entertain the idea of the guy balancing a group of girls.
> 
> Oda has chosen to forego the concept entirely. Also, I have seen plenty of Japanese media that do the opposite of what you are claiming, saying "I love you" in the sense we in the west would.



What do you mean ? saying "I love you" in the sense we in the west would ? The wording is different ?


----------



## Zyrax (Nov 20, 2014)

Da Autism in action


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> Can someone explain to me how Sasuke is abusive when he's clearly changed for the better in 698 & 699?





Yagami1211 said:


> What do you mean ? saying "I love you" in the sense we in the west would ? The wording is different ?



Cultural differences.


----------



## nightmistress (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Kakashi didn't want anything from it. He was even willing to kill Sasuke outright, the only person with some sense on the team...


Actually, so did Sakura...because she loved him and didn't want to see him fall any further.  The drama 



> I bet she like most of us evidently, aren't too keen on idealizing a relationship that has the morally repugnant developments SasuSaku did. What Sasuke or Sakura may have felt being a moot point in consideration of such developments.


Yet you all kept coming back considering Sasuke and Naruto's bond (which is WAY worse when it comes to anything physical) is a huge chunk of this story. 



> She didn't even do that though.


Sarada says hi.


----------



## Arthas (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> No.
> Person A is cheating if she goes to see someone else before even having an answer ( Yes or No whatever. ) from Person B
> Person A is confessing, Person A takes his own responsabilites for this.



So wait:

Person A confesses to Person B.
Person B says get lost.
Person A goes out with Person C.

Person A is a cheater?

....words fail me.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

nightmistress said:


> Actually, so did Sakura...because she loved him and didn't want to see him fall any further.


 
Kakashi was just going to kill him, and had the resolve to do it contrast to Sakura.



> Yet you all kept coming back considering Sasuke and Naruto's bond (which is WAY worse when it comes to anything physical) is a huge chunk of this story.



That in no way addresses my point. 



> Sarada says hi.



That's not "picking up the pieces" that's a result of after everything was put together.


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> I went to japan two years ago, you know. but I don't think so. We shouldn't talk about this here.


I was only joking, of course those rules don't apply to gaijin hunters


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> What do you mean ? saying "I love you" in the sense we in the west would ? The wording is different ?



I mean being in a relationship and then saying "I love you" after some time as opposed to the confession being the initiation of an exclusive relationship.


----------



## babaGAReeb (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I never liked Harem. I mean, particularly considering it's considered betrayal if any one of the girls stray from the guy, but they can entertain the idea of the guy balancing a group of girls.
> 
> Oda has chosen to forego the concept entirely. Also, I have seen plenty of Japanese media that do the opposite of what you are claiming, saying "I love you" in the sense we in the west would.



i dont understand japans obsession with "harem" either

where did this start anyway? i think harem is some arab thing


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I mean being in a relationship and then saying "I love you" after some time as opposed to the confession being the initiation of an exclusive relationship.



Ha, well, japan is little by little letting go of some of their old values, most of the teens are very west-ish. Adults don't really like that. This is not surprising, but this is kinda new.

A lot of values in Naruto are very old japan-ish.


----------



## -JT- (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> No.
> Person A is cheating if she goes to see someone else before even having an answer ( Yes or No whatever. ) from Person B
> Person A is confessing, Person A takes his own responsabilites for this.



Ohhhh I see.
You're referring to Sakura 'cheating' on Sasuke.
I thought we were originally talking Naruto.



I still have a hard time believing that marrying a man who tried to kill you three times is perceived better than falling in love with someone else, though  Kishimoto has really made things worse in these interviews, as far as his writing skills are concerned.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Arthas said:


> So wait:
> 
> Person A confesses to Person B.
> Person B says get lost.
> ...



If person B rejected Person A clearly. then no, it's ok.
Without an answer, then yes it's cheating.

However Sakura confessed twice. This is kind of a complicated matter.


----------



## Suigetsu (Nov 20, 2014)

-JT- said:


> Ohhhh I see.
> You're referring to Sakura 'cheating' on Sasuke.
> I thought we were originally talking Naruto.
> 
> ...



He should had just said, yes I took the money or was pressured by Editors or some shit.
Talk about a girl reader repellent, I am honestly disgusted by this answer. I never tought I would ever be disgusted by someone that I whole heartedly admired.

Maybe I am exagerating a bit but seriously... What the fuck? I want to see what the girls and feminists do now.


----------



## Tony Lou (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> If person B rejected Person A clearly. then no, it's ok.
> Without an answer, then yes it's cheating.
> 
> However Sakura confessed twice. This is kind of a complicated matter.



Well, Sasuke rejected her very, very clearly.

Maybe he was being a little tsundere, but he technically did.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Luiz said:


> Well, Sasuke rejected her very, very clearly.
> 
> Maybe he was being a little tsundere, but he technically did.



Well, anyway this discussion is kinda void. Sakura never gave up anyway.


----------



## Tony Lou (Nov 20, 2014)

Suigetsu said:


> He should had just said, yes I took the money or was pressured by Editors or some shit.
> Talk about a girl reader repellent, I am honestly disgusted by this answer. I never tought I would ever be disgusted by someone that I whole heartedly admired.
> 
> Maybe I am exagerating a bit but seriously... What the fuck? I want to see what the girls and feminists do now.



Who knows, could've been editors.

But money? That's... a pathetic excuse to put it bluntly.

Plot points aren't negotiated. The general level of freedom given to an anime studio perhaps, but that's it.


----------



## Tiller (Nov 20, 2014)

. That whole I got rid of all my bonds, let Naruto live on a whim, and I'm now going to destroy Itachi and the village thing wasn't a rejection? 

Thank God I was born in the west.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 20, 2014)

ShadowFox88 said:


> This is turning into a hollow victory for NH/SS shippers.
> 
> Yeah, you all won.
> 
> But at what cost?



Oh-My!

At what cost?

Endless  and priceless fun.

Never, never in 43 years I?ve seen such a show

Havent you see the waaaaaaaaaails, the tears,, the baby swappings, the  harassing tweets, the demented theories, the alternate doujins,  the delicious phases of aceptance-"only the willing get consolation". and general indignity?


----------



## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Well, anyway this discussion is kinda void. Sakura never gave up anyway.



no one gave up on sasuke. 

itachi, naruto, oro, karin.... no one


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

"A terrible woman"?

Uh...disregarding Naruto....getting over Sasuke after is not a sign of being "terrible". Its a sign of absolute common sense. You made her terrible yourself before and after the Kage summit arc even withholding that. Cause her feelings for Sasuke ended up being all she ever was in the story even before taking into account how pathetic they made her 

Of course i knew he had a twisted mind, but hearing it out of his own mouth....its disgusting.


----------



## Selva (Nov 20, 2014)

Geg said:


> Why not go with neither


Because apparently in the eyes of some if Sakura doesn't get to fuck a man in the end then she'll lose to Ino.
I don't know if I should laugh or facepalm at this.



Rindaman said:


> Ok, here is the money question.
> 
> Why does NF hate Sakura for still loving Sasuke even after he tried to kill her, but not Naruto?


Implying Naruto isn't hated a lot around these forums for this shit too >.> <.<


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

> Why does NF hate Sakura for still loving Sasuke even after he tried to kill her, but not Naruto?



Plenty despise Naruto for this, and his relationship with Sasuke. Criticisms of it have been a constant and vocal thing here, so I gotta wonder where people are that ask this.


----------



## Kusa (Nov 20, 2014)

So apparently if Sakura switched to Naruto it would mean she switched, because he became popular and that would make her look like a bitch, because that would imply  she only did because of his popularity. A very very terrible woman who only cares about something as shallow as a good reputation.

I don't understand, why some people would assume that Kishimoto refers to the time after Naruto got popular (after killing Pain). Kishimoto does not mention, *when *he was thinking about giving Narusaku a chance but deciding against it. It could have have happened way before Naruto reached the popularity he had after he killed Pain. Only because Sakura talks about women's heart being  fickle like autumn sky, it does not mean Kishimoto refers to that by talking about a sudden change in heart that would have made her look terrible. If Sakura did fall in love with Naruto and this happened way before the pain fight, it would have not looked less sudden. So there is nothing that proves that Kishimoto was against the idea of Sakura falling for Naruto, because this would mean she is only interested in his popularity. 

Even if Kishimoto got interested in the Narusaku road(but of course decided against it) after Naruto gained popularity, it would not mean Sakura suddenly got interested in Naruto because he was cool now and gained popularity. She could have fallen for him, because of 1000 different reasons that are not that shallow.

However, let's say Kishi meant exactly that. He wanted to prevent Sakura from falling in love with Naruto, because it would looked like she is only interested in him because of shallow reasons, how terrible could that be  in a manga where even murder attempts are not treated like the biggest crime ever and even the one who does this actions does still not look terrible  in the authors eyes, but a girl apparently loving a guy for his popularity is terrible. If almost anything gets  executed, i don't see how having shallow reason for someone could be such a big deal, especially if it that means having to move on from someone like Sasuke who did treat her more than badly during the whole part 2.

This is not about the Naruto theme or really about pairings, but how Kishimoto perceives 'terrible women'. From the interview(?) it does not become obvious(which i explained above), why Kishi would think that way, but nonetheless about the reason it's just funny that in this manga almost no action is seen as that terrible or gets excused, but Sakura moving on to Naruto is seen as terrible.


----------



## Bishamon (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> "A terrible woman"?
> 
> Uh...disregarding Naruto....getting over Sasuke after is not a sign of being "terrible". Its a sign of absolute common sense. You made her terrible yourself before and after the Kage summit arc even withholding that. Cause her feelings for Sasuke ended up being all she ever was in the story even before taking into account how pathetic they made her
> 
> Of course i knew he had a twisted mind, but hearing it out of his own mouth....its disgusting.



We've gone over this

The reason he says that is because of a cultural thing; Basically, to japanese people, a woman being loyal to her man is seen as a virtue of the highest order, and staying with them no matter what is considered admirable. Plus, with her having confessed, her deciding to love someone else would've been considered cheating (If he didn't say he did not reciprocate the feelings), and it's considered an almost impardonable sin.


I'm really glad I wasn't born in Japan, the more I think about it. I just can't with some of this shit, I fucking can't.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Suigetsu said:


> He should had just said, yes I took the money or was pressured by Editors or some shit.
> Talk about a girl reader repellent, I am honestly disgusted by this answer. I never tought I would ever be disgusted by someone that I whole heartedly admired.
> 
> Maybe I am exagerating a bit but seriously... What the fuck? I want to see what the girls and feminists do now.



Yeah, but it would be really bad publicity for him to outright say that he did it for the money. It's not like other authors do any different, though. They're just less obvious about it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Gwynbleidd said:


> We've gone over this
> 
> The reason he says that is because of a cultural thing; Basically, to japanese people, a woman being loyal to her man is seen as a virtue of the highest order, and staying with them no matter what is considered admirable. Plus, with her having confessed, her deciding to love someone else would've been considered cheating (If he didn't say he did not reciprocate the feelings), and it's considered an almost impardonable sin.
> 
> ...



I doubt even many Japanese believe that, I mean it's not like divorce is an alien concept over there. I know right now there is a cultural clash going on between traditional attitudes, and those attitudes arisen from modern developments and western influence.


----------



## Revolution (Nov 20, 2014)

A better argument for NH is she loved him for who he is.  A better argument for SS is Sakura found out the reasons behind Sasuke's position and supported him in a quest for justice and helped him through it.

Instead, Sakura is a horrible person if she falls out of love with someone she spent 40 minutes with for the past 5 years.


Says a lot about how Kishimoto views women and their place.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Plenty despise Naruto for this, and his relationship with Sasuke. Criticisms of it have been a constant and vocal thing here, so I gotta wonder where people are that ask this.



Because cojoncillos, that is. "People" has not slammed Naruto   about his refusal in giving up on Sasuke a third part of how Sakura had been trashed since....forever.

"Sakura could have been   a proud loner"

Y una mierda.

Sakura was for what she was and was demaded for breaching contract.

The reactions every time she pissed out of the chamber pot were alwyas like the wailings after this interview, Kishi reiterating what he simply mouthpieced after the failfession. "Sakura *suddently switching *love interest because  popularity would sound shallow "

WGAAAAAAAAAAAAGGEGEEEE







Kusanagi said:


> So apparently if Sakura switched to Naruto it would mean she switched, because he became popular and that would make her look like a bitch, because that would imply  she only did because of his popularity. A very very terrible woman who only cares about something as shallow as a good reputation.
> 
> I don't understand, why some people would assume th*at Kishimoto refers to the time after Naruto got popular (after killing Pain*). Kishimoto does not mention, *when *he was thinking about giving Narusaku a chance but deciding against it. It could have have happened way before Naruto reached the popularity he had after he killed Pain. Only because Sakura talks about women's heart being  fickle like autumn sky, it does not mean Kishimoto refers to that by talking about a sudden change in heart that would have made her look terrible[


 

That-is-precisely-the time Sakura is referencing in her failfession-"you big hero nao. whole village loves you nao, and I?m one of them"

Sorry, but Kishi chose carefully the time to do Sai?s guilt trip, Sakura?s horrified reaction and the more and more messier reasons she started giving to justify her sudden romantic love.
Just after Naruto gained the reconition of the whole village-with Sakura as poster girl.

Tragic, isnt it?


----------



## Revolution (Nov 20, 2014)

Kenny Florian said:


> So the whole purpose of Sakura's character was to suck Sasuke's dick? How can people like this character or think Kishi is a good writer. Lel.



Because she is a woman.  


Is no one concerned about her daughter and how Kishi is going to treat her?  Sarada fans want her to own and boss, but let's be real.  She's is only going to exist for the sake of male characters with Kishi's mentality (just like Sasuke only exists for Naruto).  Just because I'm a fan doesn't mean I'm in denial of canon.


----------



## Darkhope (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...




Er, no.  Re-read the interview. 

*NaruHina was the one planned from a long time ago.*  NaruSaku was only "considered" for a "moment" and then Kishi realized that it would be OOC for Sakura to do a 180 and "suddenly" switch from Sasuke to Naruto.  As the failfession pointed out.

Kishi explored and thought of different ways/paths to go with his manga, NaruSaku was one of them for a brief moment - it was never intended from the start.  This interview confirms it.  Because Kishi says "after coming this far", meaning, he was already far into the manga when he only CONSIDERED the possibility of NaruSaku.  Everything after the Pein arc was all trolling for that pairing.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> It's not about that. It's about the fact that the fandom is worshiping a pairing involving a character that was a psychopath for the vast majority of the series, and using his unrealistic change of heart to justify it.


First of all I don't "worship" SS, don't even try this condescending shit with me. Secondly Sasuke is not a psychopath nor am I using his recent redemption to justify SS, I was simply asking a question. You don't even know why I ship SS so don't project the behavior of other SS shippers on me.



> In other words, SS shippers have the same mindset



Stop generalizing.



> that it takes to like a partner for purely their own interpretation of his/her personality no matter how fucked up he/she is.


What are you saying here?



> pairing is just something that sane people can't hop on board with. We see this stuff and think "goddamn that girl is stupid." Sure, he changed, but we can't relate to such a stupid decision because we're used to actually making good, sane decisions in life.


Please, there are plenty of individuals who are competent that ship SS. Just because you personally can't relate to a character doesn't mean it's the same for others. Many people including ASS have admitted there are girls like Sakura in the real world.



> *The truly hardcore SS fans are validating a poisonous mindset no matter what they say otherwise.*
> 
> *I say this as an NH fan, by the way.



You being an NH fan isn't relevant and in no way boosts your position.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Wow Kishi is an idiot when it comes to writing romances, that's really all I have to say about this.
> 
> It would make Sakura a terrible woman to move onto Jesus incarnate over someone who tried to murder her, really Kishi.



Maybe Sakura did find someone as perfect as Jesus incarnate as too boring? 

That said I guess it was compared  to how Sakura said she did fall for Naruto just because Sasuke wasn't around anymore and Naruto was popular and stuff. Guess Kishi might have believed that true love should need a better reason to fall in love with someone than just because they are now popular and stuff. Naruto also may not have liked that she loves him only for his new found popularity and nothing deeper than that. TRUE, we never got any reason why Sakura loved Sasuke himself beyond the speculative that he was good looking and popular too. That said given how there were plenty of good looking guys like Neji or Sai whom were also quite popular BUT Sakura did not fall for any of them I think we should go with Kakashi's explanation for her love instead.

Kakashi: You only need a reason to hate someone.

That and the fact that Sakura's feeling were stated to be on a whole another level(VIZ translation) when compared to how they were at the beginning. So maybe she started to care mostly about looks or/and popularity but then her shallow love evolved into real selfless love that was capable of being so insanely forgiving?

Oh well...


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 88 (34 members and 54 guests)


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## Tyrannos (Nov 20, 2014)

Wow, really Kishi?  Really?


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Darkhope said:


> Kishi explored and thought of different ways/paths to go with his manga, NaruSaku was one of them for a brief moment - it was never intended from the start.  This interview confirms it.  Because Kishi says "after coming this far", meaning, he was already far into the manga when he only CONSIDERED the possibility of NaruSaku.  *Everything after the Pein arc was all trolling for that pairing.*



That's a lot of trolling.


----------



## Maracunator (Nov 20, 2014)

As a NaruHina fan, this interview comes as a blessing, not only continuing the vindication of things we said and believed in for years, but also comes as a warding against all those "Kishimoto gave into marketing" and "Kishimoto was forced to change the pairings" arguments that kept on popping out in willful denial about what Kishimoto had been preparing since part 1.

And as an anti-NaruSaku fan, MOAR SCHADENFREUDE! So far it is so funny to see how every damage control theory to deny the canon ending (Genjutsu, the "real" pairs being NS/SK/LH, Kishimoto doing an ending that contradicts "over 600 chapters of development" for reasons, ending was made by a stupid assistant disregarding Kishimoto's plans, etc, etc) is mercilessly destroyed each time the man himself speaks on his work.


----------



## Arthas (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> If person B rejected Person A clearly. then no, it's ok.
> Without an answer, then yes it's cheating.
> 
> However Sakura confessed twice. This is kind of a complicated matter.





Luiz said:


> Well, Sasuke rejected her very, very clearly.
> 
> Maybe he was being a little tsundere, but he technically did.






Yagami1211 said:


> Well, anyway this discussion is kinda void. Sakura never gave up anyway.




Yeah, but now Kishi / Sakura does not have the excuse that giving up on Sasuke would be cheating and look bad...



Gwynbleidd said:


> We've gone over this
> 
> The reason he says that is because of a cultural thing; Basically, to  japanese people, a woman being loyal to her man is seen as a virtue of  the highest order, and staying with them no matter what is considered  admirable. *Plus, with her having confessed, her deciding to love someone  else would've been considered cheating (If he didn't say he did not  reciprocate the feelings), and it's considered an almost impardonable  sin.*
> 
> ...



See above. Pretty sure Sasuke refused her plenty of times and I don't know about you or Kishi for that matter but if a person I confessed to tried to kill me, I would pretty much take that as rejection.


----------



## Darkhope (Nov 20, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> That's a lot of trolling.



Maybe trolling wasn't the right word.

Kage Summit was there to mock the idea of Sakura falling out of love with Sasuke and in love with Naruto.  This demolished any possible romance between Naruto and Sakura and was their resolution.  Some people did not understand, and proceeded to mistake their interactions for romance when it was never meant to be.


----------



## Sunako (Nov 20, 2014)

Maracunator said:


> As a NaruHina fan, this interview comes as a blessing, not only continuing the vindication of things we said and believed in for years, but also comes as a warding against all those "Kishimoto gave into marketing" and "Kishimoto was forced to change the pairings" arguments that kept on popping out in willful denial about what Kishimoto had been preparing since part 1.
> 
> And as an anti-NaruSaku fan, MOAR SCHADENFREUDE! So far it is so funny to see how every damage control theory to deny the canon ending (Genjutsu, the "real" pairs being NS/SK/*LH*, Kishimoto doing an ending that contradicts "over 600 chapters of development" for reasons, ending was made by a stupid assistant disregarding Kishimoto's plans, etc, etc) is mercilessly destroyed each time the man himself speaks on his work.



What is LH?


----------



## Corvida (Nov 20, 2014)

Sunako said:


> What is LH?



Probably, LeeHina. Narsakyomy at its finest.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> First of all I don't "worship" SS, don't even try this condescending shit with me. Secondly Sasuke is not a psychopath nor am I using his recent redemption to justify SS, I was simply asking a question. You don't even know why I ship SS so don't project the behavior of other SS shippers on me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You got incredibly defensive over this stuff. There's no reason to like the idea of the pairing unless you have the same mindset it takes to ignore someone's shortcomings to a point of fault just to love them. Thing is, there's a limit to how much any potential partner can do. I would never enter a romantic relationship with a woman who had ever gone off the deep-end the way Sasuke did. Similarly, any woman in her right mind wouldn't enter into a romantic relationship with a guy who had pulled a Sasuke. So, if we wouldn't do such a thing because of the inherently poisonous idea that it is, why would we bother liking the idea of such a relationship at all? By "we" I mean all level-headed people, by the way.

And the NH disclaimer was so that NH fans don't get pretentious about me being anti-NH or something. In case you haven't realized it yet, most Anti-SS speakers are usually anti-NH as well. I really hate that stereotype, but it's just a sad part of reality here.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Sunako said:


> What is LH?



Lee x Hinata? 

Those LeeHina fans...they were everywhere you know!


----------



## Maracunator (Nov 20, 2014)

Sunako said:


> What is LH?



LeeHina, there was some serious arguing that Himawari had to be Lee's daughter with Hinata while Bolt had to be Naruto's and Sakura's son.

Evidence being her hair... from a photoshopped panel that died it black so it would match Lee's hair color, and completely disregarding the blue eyes and whiskers she shares with Bolt


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> And the NH disclaimer was so that NH fans don't get pretentious about me being anti-NH or something. In case you haven't realized it yet, most Anti-SS speakers are usually anti-NH as well. I really hate that stereotype, but it's just a sad part of reality here.



You're not alone my dude


----------



## Needless2say (Nov 20, 2014)

@Seto Kaiba
My point was that it seems that the overall messages of forgiveness, unbreakable bonds, love (platonic, brotherly and/or romantic w.e) associated with these other relationships is a lot more accepted than it is with SasuSaku. What is the difference? It all comes down to people not liking the relationship plain and simple. Which is perfectly okay. 
However, this whole Kishi promoting SasuSaku abusive relationship spiel is complete bullshit LOL


----------



## Sunako (Nov 20, 2014)

What kind of drugs are some of you on I will never know


----------



## Rashman (Nov 20, 2014)

From the way I understand it, I will say that...

NaruHina/SasuSaku were the main pairings he had in mind especially in part 1. Part 1 ends with Sakura vowing to get stronger in order to help Naruto bring Sasuke back. You also have Kiba teasing Hinata about Naruto and her ultimately watching Naruto leave for his training.

At the beginning of part 2, he considered and played with the idea of NaruSaku especially in the Sai/Yamato arc. NaruSaku also stood out since neither Sasuke nor Hinata were present in the manga at the time.


 He ultimately went back to NaruHina/SasuSaku in the pain arc. After Hinata's confession, you have Sakura realize just how much Hinata loves Naruto and the we get the fake confession which ultimately killed NaruSaku. The same arc also re-established that Sakura still loved Sasuke.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Needless2say said:


> @Seto Kaiba
> My point was that it seems that the overall messages of forgiveness, unbreakable bonds, love (platonic, brotherly and/or romantic w.e) associated with these other relationships is a lot more accepted than it is with SasuSaku.



With Naruto and Sasuke? Absolutely not!

With Sasuke and Karin? Most definitely not.

For most the others that is deliberate ignorance of the circumstances of each relationship and the context and nature of their developments. 



> What is the difference? It all comes down to people not liking the relationship plain and simple. Which is perfectly okay.
> However, this whole Kishi promoting SasuSaku abusive relationship spiel is complete bullshit LOL



But he's trying to present such a relationship as positive, and try to push a positive theme through such portrayals. You are blinding yourself as to why people dislike SasuSaku in contrast to why they would dislike say, NaruHina or NaruSaku.


----------



## HolyHands (Nov 20, 2014)

Rashman said:


> From the way I understand it, I will say that...
> 
> NaruHina/SasuSaku were the main pairings he had in mind especially in part 1. Part 1 ends with Sakura vowing to get stronger in order to help Naruto bring Sasuke back. You also have Kiba teasing Hinata about Naruto and her ultimately watching Naruto leave for his training.
> 
> ...



That's how I see it too.

Obviously he had to have considered NaruSaku at some time, considering the heavy teasing going on in early part 2. But I'm guessing that when Sasuke came back into the story, he went back to NH/SS. This interview more or less proves that the failfession was specifically written to shoot down NS.

There's still questions as to when he started considering NS, and whether it was a serious consideration or just a fleeting thought that never really amounted to much. Either way, Kishi obviously didn't like it and decided against it. NS gets no seal of approval from Kishi.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 20, 2014)




----------



## Addy (Nov 20, 2014)

Kusanagi said:


> So apparently if Sakura switched to Naruto it would mean she switched, because he became popular and that would make her look like a bitch, because that would imply  she only did because of his popularity. A very very terrible woman who only cares about something as shallow as a good reputation.
> 
> I don't understand, why some people would assume that Kishimoto refers to the time after Naruto got popular (after killing Pain). Kishimoto does not mention, *when *he was thinking about giving Narusaku a chance but deciding against it. It could have have happened way before Naruto reached the popularity he had after he killed Pain. Only because Sakura talks about women's heart being  fickle like autumn sky, it does not mean Kishimoto refers to that by talking about a sudden change in heart that would have made her look terrible. If Sakura did fall in love with Naruto and this happened way before the pain fight, it would have not looked less sudden. So there is nothing that proves that Kishimoto was against the idea of Sakura falling for Naruto, because this would mean she is only interested in his popularity.
> 
> ...


wait until people make this into a pairing post


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Darkhope said:


> Maybe trolling wasn't the right word.
> 
> Kage Summit was there to mock the idea of Sakura falling out of love with Sasuke and in love with Naruto.  This demolished any possible romance between Naruto and Sakura and was their resolution.  Some people did not understand, and proceeded to mistake their interactions for romance when it was never meant to be.



I think trolling is the _right word._  How can you look at the Kushina set up and not think that?



Like this is purposefully designed to trip readers up


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Corvida said:


> Probably, LeeHina. Narsakyomy at its finest.


Poor Lee, the true genius of hard work who stood strong even when he knew that to be a good/great shinobi with just Taijutsu was nearly impossible, then even after his leg and arm were broken he still stuck to his resolve with a smile. Oh Lee, if only you were the main character in this manga, Hinata would be all over you. The green spandex may have posed a problem but hey, she didn't mind the orange jumpsuit so you would have been set.

You should have listened to Neji about that destiny stuff man. Then you wouldn't have gotten your hopes up.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Rashman said:


> From the way I understand it, I will say that...
> 
> NaruHina/SasuSaku were the main pairings he had in mind especially in part 1. Part 1 ends with Sakura vowing to get stronger in order to help Naruto bring Sasuke back. You also have Kiba teasing Hinata about Naruto and her ultimately watching Naruto leave for his training.
> 
> ...



Pretty much this. 

Some people (disappointing to hear even) seriously believe NH happened as an outcome of SS.

It's Hinata's confession that changed game, not the other way around.


----------



## Kusa (Nov 20, 2014)

Addy said:


> wait until people make this into a pairing post



no pleace not


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Gwynbleidd said:


> We've gone over this
> 
> The reason he says that is because of a cultural thing; Basically, to japanese people, a woman being loyal to her man is seen as a virtue of the highest order, and staying with them no matter what is considered admirable. Plus, with her having confessed, her deciding to love someone else would've been considered cheating (If he didn't say he did not reciprocate the feelings), and it's considered an almost impardonable sin.
> 
> ...





Not even close. "Cultural thing"? Will the excuses for Kishi never cease? 

FYI, i dismissed loving Naruto right off the bat, so it literally means nothing to me, whatever excuses made for that. 

Having Sakura chase after Sasuke, to even more detriment to her character even after that bullshit is the mark of a bad writer. And you can't say "oh its just cultural differences", cause Kishimoto acknowledges how bad SasuNaru looks in retrospect too, and knows outsiders see it as dysfunctional and fucked up with both of them being crazy people. He just doesn't care because his moral compass is fucked up

There's such a thing as bad writing and horrible morality, and Kishimoto has got it. 

I have never once read a manga or watched an anime where scenarios this terrible have ever occurred. So saying that its a "cultural thing" really has no merit and makes me laugh at the desperation.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Rashman said:


> From the way I understand it, I will say that...
> 
> NaruHina/SasuSaku were the main pairings he had in mind especially in part 1. Part 1 ends with Sakura vowing to get stronger in order to help Naruto bring Sasuke back. You also have Kiba teasing Hinata about Naruto and her ultimately watching Naruto leave for his training.
> 
> ...



This sounds like the most reasonable explanation, honestly.


----------



## Super Chief (Nov 20, 2014)

NH fans still trying to claim NaruHina was planned all along? Come the fuck on. If that were the case the manga would reflect that. Naruto would have actually had some feelings for her in the manga. The movie wouldn't be necessary. You guys are fucking delusional.

The more reasonable explanation is that Kishimoto, either by himself or on the advice of his editors, switched up the endgame pairings some time around Road to Ninja.

Be happy your ships happened. Don't be happy Kishimoto held such views, and don't be moronic enough to try to validate your hindsight bias by coming to such illogical, unsubstantiated conclusions.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Rashman said:


> From the way I understand it, I will say that...
> 
> NaruHina/SasuSaku were the main pairings he had in mind especially in part 1. Part 1 ends with Sakura vowing to get stronger in order to help Naruto bring Sasuke back. You also have Kiba teasing Hinata about Naruto and her ultimately watching Naruto leave for his training.
> 
> ...





HolyHands said:


> That's how I see it too.
> 
> Obviously he had to have considered NaruSaku at some time, considering the heavy teasing going on in early part 2. But I'm guessing that when Sasuke came back into the story, he went back to NH/SS. This interview more or less proves that the failfession was specifically written to shoot down NS.
> 
> There's still questions as to when he started considering NS, and whether it was a serious consideration or just a fleeting thought that never really amounted to much. Either way, Kishi obviously didn't like it and decided against it. NS gets no seal of approval from Kishi.



Same. Though I think there's also the question of why bait NaruSaku thereafter 

Kushina thing seems almost cruel in hindsight. lol.


----------



## Meat (Nov 20, 2014)

Damn im sure Kishi will get alot of death threats and petitions after this.

Quick Kishi! Hide yo wife! Hide yo kids! Hide yo assistants!


----------



## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> I think trolling is the _right word._  How can you look at the Kushina set up and not think that?
> 
> 
> 
> Like this is purposefully designed to trip readers up



Its all about the money like someone before said. Keep the parings fans drooling then in the end decide to please two fandoms instead of one. Profit. Sweet sweet money profit. What he said about Sakura to me is mostly made up excuses, he didnt have any particular pairing in mind, just kept everyone happy and guessing.


----------



## TItroops (Nov 20, 2014)

another translation .



> Interviewer::最終話では、ヒナタとの間に2人の子供がいることが示唆されましたが、ヒナタとナルトが結婚する未来はいつ頃固まったのでしょうか。
> 
> Interviewer:: Saishu hanashi de ha, hinata tono ma ni 2 hito no kodomo ga iru koto ga shisasaremashita ga, hinata to naruto ga kekkon suru mirai ha itsugoro katamatta no deshou ka?
> 
> ...


----------



## Tony Lou (Nov 20, 2014)

I see tons of images and gifs.

It already is an all out war over here. ck


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> You got incredibly defensive over this stuff.


  Which is not only irrelevant to our discussion, but an attempt on your part at deflecting.



> There's no reason to like the idea of the pairing unless you have the same mindset it takes to ignore someone's shortcomings to a point of fault just to love them.


Are you saying I shouldn't like a pairing in a fictional setting if I wouldn't like it in real life? 



> Thing is, there's a limit to how much any potential partner can do.


Do what? 



> I would never enter a romantic relationship with a woman who had ever gone off the deep-end the way Sasuke did.


I'm sure you wouldn't and I wouldn't want you to.



> Similarly, any woman in her right mind wouldn't enter into a romantic relationship with a guy who had pulled a Sasuke.


1) This is an opinion/assumption. I agree with you but let's not try to present this as a fact when it clearly isn't. 

2) This opinion/assumption doesn't apply to Kishi's fictional setting, and Sakura is the prime example of how it doesn't. 



> if we wouldn't do such a thing because of the inherently poisonous idea that it is, why would we bother liking the idea of such a relationship at all? By "we" I mean all level-headed people, by the way.


Because as a Sasuke fan I find it endearing that despite all the shit he did Sakura (along with Naruto & Kakashi) are willing to give him a second chance at happiness. Now I wouldn't allow such a relationship between me and another in the real world,  but this world is fictional and thus my mind is free to suspend it's disbelief into a setting where someone like Sasuke can do what he's done and still be forgiven.



> And the NH disclaimer was so that NH fans don't get pretentious about me being anti-NH or something. In case you haven't realized it yet, most Anti-SS speakers are usually anti-NH as well. I really hate that stereotype, but it's just a sad part of reality here.


I have no idea why people assume that if you ship NH you side ship SS and vice versa.

EDIT:The forum is crashing on my phone.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Meh, If I didn't translate this. Someone else would have done it anyway.


----------



## Maracunator (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> NH fans still trying to claim NaruHina was planned all along? Come the fuck on. If that were the case the manga would reflect that. Naruto would have actually had some feelings for her in the manga. The movie wouldn't be necessary. You guys are fucking delusional.
> 
> The more reasonable explanation is that Kishimoto, either by himself or on the advice of his editors, switched up the endgame pairings some time around Road to Ninja.
> 
> Be happy your ships happened. Don't be happy Kishimoto held such views, and don't be moronic enough to try to validate your hindsight bias by coming to such illogical, unsubstantiated conclusions.



You get the man himself spelling it out as the originally planned endgame with no space for interpretation. Name-calling the people who had it right all along and trying to come up with "reasonable" explanations that outright ignore what was said won't change reality.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> NH fans still trying to claim NaruHina was planned all along? Come the fuck on. If that were the case the manga would reflect that. Naruto would have actually had some feelings for her in the manga. The movie wouldn't be necessary. You guys are fucking delusional.
> 
> The more reasonable explanation is that Kishimoto, either by himself or on the advice of his editors, switched up the endgame pairings some time around Road to Ninja.
> 
> Be happy your ships happened. Don't be happy Kishimoto held such views, and don't be moronic enough to try to validate your hindsight bias by coming to such illogical, unsubstantiated conclusions.



You sound like turrin


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> NH fans still trying to claim NaruHina was planned all along? Come the fuck on. If that were the case the manga would reflect that. Naruto would have actually had some feelings for her in the manga. The movie wouldn't be necessary. You guys are fucking delusional.
> 
> The more reasonable explanation is that Kishimoto, either by himself or on the advice of his editors, switched up the endgame pairings some time around Road to Ninja.
> 
> Be happy your ships happened. Don't be happy Kishimoto held such views, and don't be moronic enough to try to validate your hindsight bias by coming to such illogical, unsubstantiated conclusions.



He had NH planned but he was also taking Sakura into consideration for a while. Then he decided to make Hinata confess her love and bring out Sakura's false confession which pretty much nailed NaruSaku out of the game if we are to take this interview at face value. Only thing is he should have resolved the NH pairing a while ago, and cemented the damn thing to the ground and not continue to display hints of NaruSaku after and keep toying with multiple factions of readers because that's why the pairing shitstorm has lasted for years.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

> JISSAI SAKURA…..jissai refers to ‘practical, come to reality’. So, with JISSAI Sakura, it means Sakura is a practical girl.



No...no she is not!

What the hell is wrong with this guy!?


----------



## Narutossss (Nov 20, 2014)

109 visitors though, lol NF never change


----------



## Super Chief (Nov 20, 2014)

I think it's funny how Kishimoto, in response to a question about how and why NaruHina happened, feels compelled to explain how and why NaruSaku didn't happen.

The way I see it, Kishimoto set up NH and SS to fail but they became to popular to do so. They were both one-sided all throughout the manga, whereas the main pairing he decided to develop mutually, this being NaruSaku, got one obvious parallel after the other and hints and teases by characters (Yamato, Sai) and hints in the data books regarding Sakura's new feelings for Naruto, and so and so forth. Then he swept this all under the rug without any resolution or closure whatsoever, canonised two pairings that simply weren't meant to be, and then told us to sit tight and wait for an explanation one month after the ending.


----------



## SLB (Nov 20, 2014)

he actually thinks loving sasuke is a good thing


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> I think it's funny how Kishimoto, in response to a question about how and why NaruHina happened, feels compelled to explain how and why NaruSaku didn't happen.
> 
> The way I've read it, Kishimoto set up NH and SS to fail but they became to popular to do so. They were both one-sided all throughout the manga, whereas the main pairing he decided to develop mutually, this being NaruSaku, got one one the nose parallel after the other and hints and teases by characters (Yamato, Sai) and notes in the data books regarding Sakura's new feelings for Naruto, and so and so forth. Then he swept this all under the rug without any resolution or closure whatsoever, canonised two pairings that simply weren't meant to be, and then told us to sit tight and wait for an explanation one month after the ending.



This is getting kinda tragic.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Also, I don't see why he still wanted to pair Sakura up with Sasuke. In this interview, he says multiple times that Sakura always loved Sasuke. Okay.... But what about Sasuke's mindset into the relationship? Why go out of your way to make him a complete dickhead to Sakura if he wanted to make them end up with each other? Could have done it through other means of actually...you know, where no violence and mistreatment is involved.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

This is a fucking disaster. I'm not watching that fucking movie. Kishi needs to retire quietly.


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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

You pairing fans are silly, just remove your colored glasses and look at it from a neutral standpoint for once.

- the guy is terrible at romance
- despite that the potential pairings became a big, huge thing he probably didnt expect
- to take advantage of that he teases all three, even involving side characters like Karin and Kiba(but mostly Minato and Kushina) into the fight
- after making fools of everyone he takes the road of least resistance - he pleases 2 of the biggest shipping fandoms and pisses off 1 instead of the opposite
- when asked about it he cant give a credible reason why the characters acted the way they did

There you go, all sorted.


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## SLB (Nov 20, 2014)

japan doe, normality

that sexual repression shows itself in spades sometimes


----------



## ShadowFox88 (Nov 20, 2014)

Still don't get why he baited NS shippers and didn't make Naruto and HInata have a normal conversation throughout the entire manga.

SMH


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## Gabe (Nov 20, 2014)

Man this is weird. Kishi has some messed up logic


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## Kusa (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> I think it's funny how Kishimoto, in response to a question about how and why NaruHina happened, feels compelled to explain how and why NaruSaku didn't happen.
> 
> The way I see it, Kishimoto set up NH and SS to fail but they became to popular to do so. They were both one-sided all throughout the manga, whereas the main pairing he decided to develop mutually, this being NaruSaku, got one obvious parallel after the other and hints and teases by characters (Yamato, Sai) and hints in the data books regarding Sakura's new feelings for Naruto, and so and so forth. Then he swept this all under the rug without any resolution or closure whatsoever, canonised two pairings that simply weren't meant to be, and then told us to sit tight and wait for an explanation one month after the ending.





Okay staphh


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## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Yeeeeeeah,  there's legitimate criticism of how this has unfolded, and then there's...That


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## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

TItroops said:


> another translation .
> 
> 
> > Interviewer::最終話では、ヒナタとの間に2人の子供がいることが示唆されましたが、ヒナタと ナルトが結婚する未来はいつ頃固まったのでしょうか。
> ...



what the hell? basically he wanted to say that Sakura wanted to let Naruto to Hinata instead of keeping him for her, Kishis  romance is fucked up.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

Rios said:


> You pairing fans are silly, just remove your colored glasses and look at it from a neutral standpoint for once.
> 
> - the guy is terrible at romance
> - despite that the potential pairings became a big, huge thing he probably didnt expect
> ...



Yeah, I think this right here is what prob happened. There is no excuse to give more development to the fake pairing(ns) than the actual pairing you want to make canon. It's so dumb. Anyways awhile the canon pairings can whine all they want that they won, it is hardly even a win at this point.


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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

ShadowFox88 said:


> Still don't get why he baited NS shippers and didn't make Naruto and HInata have a normal conversation throughout the entire manga.
> 
> SMH



He was smart. If he did establish NH early on the NS would have quieted down, he'd lose some readers, popularity, etc.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Also don't know what NaruHina shippers are happy about with this news. This confirms that NaruSakur was a strong contender at certain point and if not for the grace of Kishi's downright twisted/nonsense logic of what should define a woman's romantic relationships it would have been so. So congratz I guess...



'A strong contender?' Turrin do you seriously like reaching?


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## HolyHands (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> I think it's funny how Kishimoto, in response to a question about how and why NaruHina happened, feels compelled to explain how and why NaruSaku didn't happen.
> 
> The way I see it, Kishimoto set up NH and SS to fail but they became to popular to do so. They were both one-sided all throughout the manga, whereas the main pairing he decided to develop mutually, this being NaruSaku, got one obvious parallel after the other and hints and teases by characters (Yamato, Sai) and hints in the data books regarding Sakura's new feelings for Naruto, and so and so forth. Then he swept this all under the rug without any resolution or closure whatsoever, canonised two pairings that simply weren't meant to be, and then told us to sit tight and wait for an explanation one month after the ending.



So Kishimoto flat out states he planned on NH for a long time, considered NS, but decided against it, and you somehow managed to twist and warp that into "He never planned for NH, but changed his mind at the last minute".

Man, do you people listen to yourself? First, it's acting like The Last is a "rejection" movie, then chapter 700 being a genjutsu, then Himawari being Lee's child, and now this? Look, if you don't like NH then that's perfectly fine, but just admit that Kishimoto doesn't agree with your pairing. Stop embarrassing yourself.


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## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lel.  NS still doesn't realize how parallels work in this manga. Not everything that is paralleled happens the exact same way. Sakura parallels with Tsunade (who lost her lover), and Rin (Who's feelings for Kakashi were unrequited); she surpasses them both in this regard.


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## Lace (Nov 20, 2014)

Rios said:


> He was smart. If he did establish NH early on the NS would have quieted down, he'd lose some readers, popularity, etc.



Thing is, if NH actually had those conversations some NS fans might have come to be alright with it


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## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

If the big turnaround was during the Pein arc (which I am guessing it was), then he should have planned for Hinata to give Naruto the hug instead of Sakura and make the two talk about their relationship after the destruction. Instead, he continued to bait the fandoms.


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## Itachі (Nov 20, 2014)

Like Sakura's not a terrible woman, fucking Kishi.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> So Kishimoto flat out states he planned on NH for a long time, considered NS, but decided against it, and you somehow managed to twist and warp that into "He never planned for NH, but changed his mind at the last minute".
> 
> Man, do you people listen to yourself? First, it's acting like The Last is a "rejection" movie, then chapter 700 being a genjutsu, then Himawari being Lee's child, and now this? Look, if you don't like NH then that's perfectly fine, but just admit that Kishimoto doesn't agree with your pairing. Stop embarrassing yourself.



Who is saying all this stuff? I havent seen anyone claim half the shit you just typed up. Actually there are barely any NS shippers here in the KL. Not to mention this si rich coming from an NH shipper as your fandom cannot take even the simplest of criticism just like SS. There are people here actually arguing that the way NH happened was great. I dont know what type of delusion you must have to think that, but it must surely be over 9000.


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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

Lace said:


> Thing is, if NH actually had those conversations some NS fans might have come to be alright with it



Who cares, they can be as vocal as they want now that the manga has ended. I dont see them getting a movie or anything, in other words Kishi's crowd pleasing ways continue.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

What i'm also finding sad is that this conversation only even occurs in the context of pairings, once again cementing Sakura as nothing but a pairing fodder for the entire series, as women tend to be in Naruto. 

When asked about Sakura, it automatically goes to NS, yet there's no real talk at all about Sakura growing for her own sense of self preservation, or her own goals or morals. It still only surrounds the two teammates in which she apparently had the potential to bone 

And apparently that's okay with nothing in between to back up the character, regardless of how she acted outside of romance is irrelevant, like Hinata.

This is...


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## Super Chief (Nov 20, 2014)

Maracunator said:


> You get the man himself spelling it out as the originally planned endgame with no space for interpretation. Name-calling the people who had it right all along and trying to come up with "reasonable" explanations that outright ignore what was said won't change reality.



It's not like he's going to admit to changing his mind now when he's got a movie out hot on the heels of the manga ending. You don't find it telling he feels compelled to address why X pairing didn't happen when asked about Y?

Doing something moronic doesn't necessarily make someone a moron. Grow some thicker skin.



Pocalypse said:


> He had NH planned but he was also taking Sakura into consideration for a while. Then he decided to make Hinata confess her love and bring out Sakura's false confession which pretty much nailed NaruSaku out of the game if we are to take this interview at face value. Only thing is he should have resolved the NH pairing a while ago, and cemented the damn thing to the ground and not continue to display hints of NaruSaku after and keep toying with multiple factions of readers because that's why the pairing shitstorm has lasted for years.



He had it planned, so he says, for how long? Couldn't have been earlier than late 2012 considering Road to Ninja came out and that pandered to the NaruSaku fandom, unless you're suggesting that was some kind of troll - which would be a pretty expensive and risky joke considering how expensive and time consuming animation is.

Both before and after Road to Ninja came out, he continued to pander to the NS fandom following Sakura's false confession. 

Seems like a very odd choice to dedicate panel time to a relationship that had advanced as far as it was going to go when the endgame pairings were left underdeveloped and neglected.


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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> What i'm also finding sad is that this conversation only even occurs in the context of pairings, once again cementing Sakura as nothing but a pairing fodder for the entire series, as women tend to be in Naruto.
> 
> When asked about Sakura, it automatically goes to NS, yet there's no real talk at all about Sakura growing for her own sense of self preservation, or her own goals or morals. It still only surrounds the two teammates in which she apparently had the potential to bone
> 
> ...



Thats what she is, a convenient tool for Kishimoto to keep the pairing heat going. Sad part is he could have kept up with her Sasori fight development but baiting pairing fans is easier, so much easier.....


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## HolyHands (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Who is saying all this stuff? I havent seen anyone claim half the shit you just typed up. Actually there are barely any NS shippers here in the KL. Not to mention this si rich coming from an NH shipper as your fandom cannot take even the simplest of criticism just like SS. There are people here actually arguing that the way NH happened was great. I dont know what type of delusion you must have to think that, but it must surely be over 9000.



He literally said "Kishimoto set up NH and SS to fail but they became to popular to do so", which is a direct contradiction of Kishi's quote. And if you want to know where I got those NS theories from, just browse tumblr around a bit, it's sad.

Like I said, if you don't like NH it's fine. NH wasn't well developed, but goddamn, just admit defeat already.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Who is saying all this stuff? I havent seen anyone claim half the shit you just typed up. Actually there are barely any NS shippers here in the KL. Not to mention this si rich coming from an NH shipper as your fandom cannot take even the simplest of criticism just like SS. There are people here actually arguing that the way NH happened was great. I dont know what type of delusion you must have to think that, but it must surely be over 9000.


Kishimoto has said several times over that he had planned the ending for a long, long time Normality. When flat out asked about Naruto and Hinata here, he fricken said he had it planned. He had 'considered' Sakura and Naruto getting together but wrote it off.

Selectively reading here is selectively reading.


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## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> unless you're suggesting that was some kind of troll



Are you _really_ gonna deny that possibility tho 

The whole Kushina thing on its own is a deliberate troll in retrospect. 

And it can be written off as friendship anyway.


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## Kakashi343 (Nov 20, 2014)

> If he had said, ''There was a time when I was on the fence about going with Sakura, but after coming this far and just having Sakura switch over to loving Naruto would make her kind of a sensible woman."
> 
> I wouldn't be able to disagree with him. The end result isn't wrong; he did take the character too far the wrong way to turn back; it is his perception that is off key.



I actually agree with this I had forgotten how stupid Sakura had been throughout the series. Don't get me wrong I actually didn't have a problem with her as a character, but she was incredibly unintelligent when it came to her romance with Sasuke. He was too fucked up to her for her to just be head over heels for him eternally. I guess how pure her love was is something that attracted Sasuke, in one of his interviews Kishi describes Sasuke as a really pure person.


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## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> He had it planned, so he says, for how long? Couldn't have been earlier than late 2012 considering Road to Ninja came out and that pandered to the NaruSaku fandom, unless you're suggesting that was some kind of troll - which would be a pretty expensive and risky joke considering how expensive and time consuming animation is.
> 
> Both before and after Road to Ninja came out, he continued to pander to the NS fandom following Sakura's false confession.
> 
> Seems like a very odd choice to dedicate panel time to a relationship that had advanced as far as it was going to go when the endgame pairings were left underdeveloped and neglected.



That was the only problem he had and that was to continue to bait the fandoms with hints here and there. But the Pain arc and the Kage Summit arc suggests that he definitely had NH sorted out and SasuSaku sorted out because of the fake confession and her willingness to not stop loving Sasuke. Execution was terrible for both of the pairings because he was writing out shit which didn't make sense.


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## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

JK Rowling vs. Bryke vs. Kishi

who wins?


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## Azula (Nov 20, 2014)




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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> That was the only problem he had and that was to continue to bait the fandoms with hints here and there. But the Pain arc and the Kage Summit arc suggests that he definitely had NH sorted out and SasuSaku sorted out because of the fake confession and her willingness to not stop loving Sasuke. Execution was terrible for both of the pairings because he was writing out shit which didn't make sense.



And then we have Kushina and suddenly NaruSaku goes on top because of parallels and parents wishes. Nothing was sorted out, only more chaos and cheap  attention getting


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## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> JK Rowling vs. Bryke vs. Kishi
> 
> who wins?



At least Hermione didn't end up with Malfoy.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> He literally said "Kishimoto set up NH and SS to fail but they became to popular to do so", which is a direct contradiction of Kishi's quote. And if you want to know where I got those NS theories from, just browse tumblr around a bit, it's sad.
> 
> Like I said, if you don't like NH it's fine. NH wasn't well developed, but goddamn, just admit defeat already.




lol, tumblr is the go to places for idiots. Not surprising.

Okay. Who here is denying NH is canon? Nobody. Your fandom just hates to hear criticism of how the pairing happened. The way it happened was bullshit especially now that he said he supposedly planned it. Yet when ever those very good points are brought up the only response is "you salty, you mad, admit it we won, blah blah". If the NS fandom is bitter than your fandom is just as bitter as what they try to project onto NS. 


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kishimoto has said several times over that he had planned the ending for a long, long time Normality. When flat out asked about Naruto and Hinata here, he fricken said he had it planned. He had 'considered' Sakura and Naruto getting together but wrote it off.
> 
> Selectively reading here is selectively reading.




Do you know for how long he considered NS? It could have been months, years. You dont know. If anything he clearly highlights the fact that NH was not clear-cut at all. He in the interview says the only reason he didnt make NS canon was because he didnt want to write Sakura getting over Sasuke. NS was a big contender for NH and could have easily became canon. Selective reading is selective reading.


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## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Rios said:


> And then we have Kushina and suddenly NaruSaku goes on top because of parallels and parents wishes. Nothing was sorted out, only more chaos and cheap  attention getting



Well, yeah that's why I said the execution was terrible and the events to make the pairings canon weren't making sense because he kept throwing in other hints. Not to mention he had SasuSaku planned because apparently Sakura always loved Sasuke no matter what and yet he made the relationship abusive by allowing Sasuke to be a dickhead to her multiple times, which includes multiple killing attempts. As I said, the execution was terrible.


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## Narutossss (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> JK Rowling vs. Bryke vs. Kishi
> 
> who wins?


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## Super Chief (Nov 20, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> So Kishimoto flat out states he planned on NH for a long time, considered NS, but decided against it, and you somehow managed to twist and warp that into "He never planned for NH, but changed his mind at the last minute".
> 
> Man, do you people listen to yourself? First, it's acting like The Last is a "rejection" movie, then chapter 700 being a genjutsu, then Himawari being Lee's child, and now this? Look, if you don't like NH then that's perfectly fine, but just admit that Kishimoto doesn't agree with your pairing. Stop embarrassing yourself.



"A long time" or "quite some time" is too ambiguous to quantify, but considering the events of the series, he was developing a relationship that was never going to advance beyond friendship well into the final stretch of the manga. Ask yourself this:

what was the point in drawing such an obvious parallel between Naruto saving Sakura and Minato saving Kushina?
what was the point in Road to Ninja?
what was the point in Minato identifying Sakura as being similar to Kushina and thereby assuming she was Naruto's girlfriend?
what was the point in the CPR, why set that up, why have it be Sakura who does it, why not Hinata, or anyone else?
what was the point in using Sakura as some kind of intermediary for Naruto's thoughts during the war, why was she the one we saw worry and thinking about him the most when Hinata barely got any panel time whatsoever?

The majority of panel time Sakura had after 615 was concerned with Naruto one way or another. What was the point in all of that when, at the end of the manga, Naruto still didn't like Hinata, he still hadn't had a real conversation with her since Part I, and still hadn't even started considered her attractive on even a superficial level?

It makes so very little sense for you to argue that NaruHina was planned years and years ago based on such a ambiguous statement that cannot be reconciled with the manga.

My preferred ships didn't happen, big deal. I moved on already. I do think it odd there are people like you willing to to resort to self-deception and intellectual dishonesty to validate what the contradictory nonsense Kishimoto is spewing.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Do you know for how long he considered NS? It could have been months, years. You dont know. If anything he clearly highlights the fact that NH was not clear-cut at all. He in the interview says the only reason he didnt make NS canon was because he didnt want to write Sakura getting over Sasuke. NS was a big contender for NH and could have easily became canon. Selective reading is selective reading.


You do realize all of NaruSaku's reasonings were destroyed in 469, the big chapter which showed that _NaruSaku was never going to happen_, right? And Kishimoto never intended Sakura to be Naruto's love interest (assistant confirmed in another interview). 

NaruSaku was never going to happen. Kishimoto considered it, but that's about it. He never was going to do it since it'd betray Naruto's, Sakura's, Sasuke's, and Hinata's character arcs. That'd be bad writing Normality.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Rios said:


> Thats what she is, a convenient tool for Kishimoto to keep the pairing heat going. Sad part is he could have kept up with her Sasori fight development but baiting pairing fans is easier, so much easier.....



And yet the fans run in to praise mediocrity, its very concerning for me.


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## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Well, yeah that's why I said the execution was terrible and the events to make the pairings canon weren't making sense because he kept throwing in other hints. Not to mention he had SasuSaku planned because apparently Sakura always loved Sasuke no matter what and yet he made the relationship abusive by allowing Sasuke to be a dickhead to her multiple times, which includes multiple killing attempts. As I said, the execution was terrible.



And what does this tell you? Kishimoto has no respect for pairings or their fans, to him they are just popularity boosters, hence why I call all of this silly. 

You have been fooled and you keep playing right into his hands(thats a general statement not directed at you in particular)


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## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

So people can't comprehend what Kishimoto is saying, heh ?

As expected of NF.


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## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> JK Rowling vs. Bryke vs. Kishi
> 
> who wins?


Honestly, I think this interview needs to have a better translation in order to judge. 

So far, it seems like Kishi is at the same level of JK Rowling.

Bryke thought that the Zutarians were *completely* delusional.


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## HolyHands (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> lol, tumblr is the go to places for idiots. Not surprising.
> 
> Okay. Who here is denying NH is canon? Nobody. Your fandom just hates to hear criticism of how the pairing happened. The way it happened was bullshit especially now that he said he supposedly planned it. Yet when ever those very good points are brought up the only response is "you salty, you mad, admit it we won, blah blah". If the NS fandom is bitter than your fandom is just as bitter as what they try to project onto NS.



"B-b-b-but you guys are bad t-t-too "

If you want to say a pairing is poorly developed, you won't get any disagreement from me. Hell, anyone who looks at this manga objectively can tell that romance in this series is lousy, with each pairing having their own flaws. 

But what you're doing here isn't criticism. It's just coming up with wild conspiracies over why your pairing didn't happen, and clinging to them despite direct contradicting statements. That's why you guys get mocked more than anything.


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## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> JK Rowling vs. Bryke vs. Kishi
> 
> who wins?



JK Rowling didn't mislead her fans. Ron ending up with Hermione was always obvious. 

Bryke is a troll, but the fans kind of ask for it. 

Kishimoto... I wouldn't even say he trolled the fandom. Shit happened but those misled were lead astray because of their own wants. Minato being reminded of Kushina for example: the assessment he made was a fair one but people should have been sensible enough to realise that Naruto is more like his energetic mother as opposed to his docile father. 

Actually find the pairing fans humorous. Usually the end result is clear, but people lie to themselves. They then start to cry when they don't get what they want.


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## Super Chief (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> That was the only problem he had and that was to continue to bait the fandoms with hints here and there. But the Pain arc and the Kage Summit arc suggests that he definitely had NH sorted out and SasuSaku sorted out because of the fake confession and her willingness to not stop loving Sasuke. Execution was terrible for both of the pairings because he was writing out shit which didn't make sense.



You should read up on what hindsight bias is, because that is what your posts amount to. You're fixating on the false confession and choose to ignore the pro NS events that followed it in order to validate your argument.


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## Corvida (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> * false *confession






> [pro NS events that followed





Ol? morena, hombre.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm pretty sure he's not saying "people who fall in love more than once are terrible people."

He's saying "it would make her look bad if she randomly dropped loving Sasuke _and _simultaneously leapt into Naruto's arms with no pretense." Because there's no development there. It would just be like her fake confession all over again, Puzzling, uncomfortable, and unbelievable. 



AeroNin said:


> I think the bigger news in this is the mini-series will last at most 6 months.



I don't know why anyone expected it to last years. It was never stated to be a "Part 3" or anything like a lot of people claimed. This is no surprise. I figured it'd be 30 chapters _maximum_. Looks like it will be more like 15-20.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Oh my god...he planned NH/SS as per his own statements. There's nothing to argue on that matter.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> JK Rowling vs. Bryke vs. Kishi
> 
> who wins?



I would first need to know the criteria for 'winning'


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do realize all of NaruSaku's reasonings were destroyed in 469, the big chapter which showed that _NaruSaku was never going to happen_, right? And Kishimoto never intended Sakura to be Naruto's love interest (assistant confirmed in another interview).
> 
> NaruSaku was never going to happen. Kishimoto considered it, but that's about it. He never was going to do it since it'd betray Naruto's, Sakura's, Sasuke's, and Hinata's character arcs. That'd be bad writing Normality.



Lol NS was never going to happen yet he considered it? You just contradicted yourself right there. 

How does NS happening betray Naruto,Sasuke, or Hinata's character? Naruto didnt like Hinata till very recently. Sasuke  didnt like Sakura till very recently as well and who cares about Hinata. She is not the main character and how does not getting the dick you wanted destroy your character? That's pathetic and you know it. NH had no development and it was completely out of character for Naruto to move on fromt Sakura just like that. SS was a real character killer. NH, SS becoming canon isnt any better than NS becoming canon.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> "B-b-b-but you guys are bad t-t-too "
> 
> If you want to say a pairing is poorly developed, you won't get any disagreement from me. Hell, anyone who looks at this manga objectively can tell that romance in this series is lousy, with each pairing having their own flaws.
> 
> But what you're doing here isn't criticism. It's just coming up with wild conspiracies over why your pairing didn't happen, and clinging to them despite direct contradicting statements. That's why you guys get mocked more than anything.



Find one post of me coming up with wild conspiracy theories? Exactly, shut up.


----------



## Deleted member 23 (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> JK Rowling vs. Bryke vs. Kishi
> 
> who wins?


It depends if we get more interviews from Kishi about shipping wars. If Kishi keeps this up Zutara version 2 is not far off the horizon.


Yagami1211 said:


> So people can't comprehend what Kishimoto is saying, heh ?
> 
> As expected of NF.


It's NF you shouldn't be surprised at all. People will always twist it into something they want.

This thread is gold. Either people can't read or don't read.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Yeah. It was out of character for Naruto to move on from someone who physically abused him and pined over a criminal. Naruto did what Sakura should have done: he found a healthy relationship.


----------



## Lace (Nov 20, 2014)

This thread was fun when it was just bashing SS's dynamic.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Lol NS was never going to happen yet he considered it? You just contradicted yourself right there.
> 
> How does NS happening betray Naruto,Sasuke, or Hinata's character? Naruto didnt like Hinata till very recently. Sasuke  didnt like Sakura till very recently as well and who cares about Hinata. She is not the main character and how does not getting the dick you wanted destroy your character? That's pathetic and you know it. NH had no development and it was completely out of character for Naruto to move on fromt Sakura just like that. SS was a real character killer. NH, SS becoming canon isnt any better than NS becoming canon.



Considering something is not the same as intending to carry those considerations through, it's simply being aware there are alternative choices and routes that can be pursued *if desired*. Evidently, Kishimoto did not desire an end where NaruSaku happened; in contrast, he plainly stated that he planned NaruHina and SasuSaku. That's just how it is. You guys have to stop trying to search for explanations on why the story has ended the way it did, other than Kishimoto's own desire to end it that way.

That doesn't mean you can't criticize the ending however, but I don't see this as criticism of the ending. I just see it as an attempt to invalidate the conclusion itself.


----------



## TRN (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Lol NS was never going to happen yet he considered it? You just contradicted yourself right there.
> 
> How does NS happening betray Naruto,Sasuke, or Hinata's character? Naruto didnt like Hinata till very recently. Sasuke  didnt like Sakura till very recently as well and who cares about Hinata. She is not the main character and how does not getting the dick you wanted destroy your character? That's pathetic and you know it. NH had no development and it was completely out of character for Naruto to move on fromt Sakura just like that. SS was a real character killer. NH, SS becoming canon isnt any better than NS becoming canon.






Normality said:


> Find one post of me coming up with wild conspiracy theories? Exactly, shut up.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> You should read up on what hindsight bias is, because that is what your posts amount to. You're fixating on the false confession and choose to ignore the pro NS events that followed it in order to validate your argument.



Lol what? Let's break it down:

1) Kishi says he had NH planned.

Makes Hinata confess her love towards Naruto and makes Sakura make a false confession to Naruto, which further boosts up NH. (This is my guess on when he definitely wanted NH to be canon)

2) Kishi says Sakura always loved Sasuke no matter what.


Continues to make Sakura hold romantic feelings for Sasuke, no matter how he treated her whether it be violence, attempts on her life or just general mistreatment.

Fact of the matter is, yes, he thought of Sakura but he's said multiple times that she has always been fixated on Sasuke, no matter what. So he didn't want Sakura to end up with Naruto because apparently that would make her a terrible woman when she already is because he's failed to realize how bad the SasuSaku relationship turned out to be with the way he went about it to make it canon.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> So people can't comprehend what Kishimoto is saying, heh ?
> 
> As expected of NF.



Apparently poor reading comprehension is very prevalent here.


----------



## Super Chief (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Oh my god...he planned NH/SS as per his own statements. There's nothing to argue on that matter.



And yet he doesn't bother to mention how long ago he planned it.

But let's ignore that, as well as the fact NaruHina and SasuSaku were completely one-sided all through the manga, and while we're at it let's ignore the fact the hero's feelings for the heroine were treated as inconsequential despite bearing significant importance all throughout the manga, and let's ignore the fact Kishimoto penned a movie that was essentially a wet dream come true to NaruSaku shippers as recent as 2012, let's ignore it all so we can fixate on this one ambiguous statement and interpret it in a way that'll somehow make all of this shit make sense  - right?

I don't know who are dumber, the people trying to excuse Kishimoto's sexist remark because of "different cultural values," or people like you, who take an ambiguous statement as "some time ago" and then try to convince everyone he planned NH and SS all along, ignoring the fact he first addressed why NaruSaku didn't happen in the first place like he knew it would come up - which is reasonable considering it's the one pairing he actually developed to have mutual basis.

This isn't about proving my ship preferences are better than yours or which pairing is better than the other. It's about something as simple as being honest over the fact Kishimoto did not originally intend the endgame pairings we were given, and you and posters like you are trying your damn hardest to fit pieces of the puzzle where they don't belong to prove the contrary.

This interview and Kishimoto's response doesn't prove NH and SS wrong. If anything, it proves that NS shippers are having been right that their ship was the original OTP, and considering how much shit they've been getting, I cannot blame them for wanting to make that clear.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Lace said:


> This thread was fun when it was just bashing SS's dynamic.



Errr...nothing changes. The relationship is still fucked up no matter what way you look at it. These recent interviews actually make Kishi look so bad because he had SS planned and yet he made shit ton of fucking questionable decisions to make it canon.


----------



## Rashman (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> I think it's funny how Kishimoto, in response to a question about how and why NaruHina happened, feels compelled to explain how and why NaruSaku didn't happen.
> 
> The way I see it, Kishimoto set up NH and SS to fail but they became to popular to do so. They were both one-sided all throughout the manga, whereas the main pairing he decided to develop mutually, this being NaruSaku, got one obvious parallel after the other and hints and teases by characters (Yamato, Sai) and hints in the data books regarding Sakura's new feelings for Naruto, and so and so forth. Then he swept this all under the rug without any resolution or closure whatsoever, canonised two pairings that simply weren't meant to be, and then told us to sit tight and wait for an explanation one month after the ending.



Enough... Enough already..... your battle is over....  





Seto Kaiba said:


> This is getting kinda tragic.



Exacta!!


----------



## WolfPrinceKiba (Nov 20, 2014)

That alternate translation makes more sense and fits with that scene where Sakura is thinking of Hinata loving Naruto but with a downturned face. Her deciding against being with Naruto due to not wanting Hinata's feelings to be hurt nor wanting to hurt Naruto(she says something along the lines of her not being good enough for him when Sai confronts her though I may be wrong) due to her own confused emotions makes her out as much better as well as Kishi.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Look. Chill. I can only take his statements regarding his plans and intentions at face value. Interviews have stated he's planned it for eight, and the movie itself was in development for two years. Clearly he planned it.

Now if you wanna argue that it was shoddy writing? Poor planning? Sure, go ahead. I won't disagree, but stop trying to act like this was not his intention when he has plainly stated that it is.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> And yet he doesn't bother to mention how long ago he planned it.
> 
> But let's ignore that, as well as the fact NaruHina and SasuSaku were completely one-sided all through the manga, and while we're at it let's ignore the fact the hero's feelings for the heroine were treated as inconsequential despite bearing significant importance all throughout the manga, and let's ignore the fact Kishimoto penned a movie that was essentially a wet dream come true to NaruSaku shippers as recent as 2012, let's ignore it all so we can fixate on this one ambiguous statement and interpret it in a way that'll somehow make all of this shit make sense  - right?
> 
> ...



Someone needs to unrustle their jimmies.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Considering something is not the same as intending to carry those considerations through, it's simply being aware there are alternative choices and routes that can be pursued *if desired*. Evidently, Kishimoto did not desire an end where NaruSaku happened; in contrast, he plainly stated that he planned NaruHina and SasuSaku. That's just how it is. You guys have to stop trying to search for explanations on why the story has ended the way it did, other than Kishimoto's own desire to end it that way.
> 
> That doesn't mean you can't criticize the ending however, but I don't see this as criticism of the ending. I just see it as an attempt to invalidate the conclusion itself.



OKay you're being thick here Seto.

1.Super said NS was never going to happen. My response was that if he considered it than it could have very well happened.

2. where am I making wild theories to try explain away a terrible ending?

3.He said if NS happened it would have damaged everyone's character. I responded by saying how if Naruto didnt even like Hinata till very recently,same with Sasuke to Sakura and HInata isnt even a main character. Her wants arent as important and not getting the dick she wants isnt damaging to her character at all. 

4.NH did have no development that is why the movie is coming out and it was out of character for Naruto to give up on Sakura.We only knew he moved on at the very end. That's nuts.

Now you tell me how everything I said is me trying to explain away the ending in a crazy fashion? I'm just critizing things that are glaring faults so I dont understand why you are being thick especially being the owner of anti-NH FC. It's not I'm out here saying someone put a gun to his head and that's why NS didnt happen. I'm stating things that are obvious problems with these 2 pairings being canon that super ignored.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lace said:


> This thread was fun when it was just bashing SS's dynamic.



True intention exposed.


----------



## HolyHands (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> And yet he doesn't bother to mention how long ago he planned it.



Probably because he didn't expect some of his fans to be so rabid about it. 



> But let's ignore that, as well as the fact NaruHina and SasuSaku were completely one-sided all through the manga, and while we're at it let's ignore the fact the hero's feelings for the heroine were treated as inconsequential despite bearing significant importance all throughout the manga, and let's ignore the fact Kishimoto penned a movie that was essentially a wet dream come true to NaruSaku shippers as recent as 2012, let's ignore it all so we can fixate on this one ambiguous statement and interpret it in a way that'll somehow make all of this shit make sense  - right?
> 
> I don't know who are dumber, the people trying to excuse Kishimoto's sexist remark because of "different cultural values," or people like you, who take an ambiguous statement as "some time ago" and then try to convince everyone he planned NH and SS all along, ignoring the fact he first addressed why NaruSaku didn't happen in the first place like he knew it would come up - which is reasonable considering it's the one pairing he actually developed to have mutual basis.
> 
> ...



When talking about a pairing being canon, it's generally pretty reasonable to also explain why a rival pairing didn't happen. But apparently in your world, simply talking about NS automatically means he wanted it to happen.


----------



## ShadowFox88 (Nov 20, 2014)

Jesus.

This thread is just 

I can't even imagine the reactions had NS gone canon.

Meltdowns would've been 10x worse


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

I don't know why people have to keep saying it, NS has gone completely off the deep end with their delusions. 

You can say the proposed pairings were not written in a good or believable manner. Fine. But running yourself off the train tracks repeatedly by stating over and over again "Kishi planned NS   HE PLANNED IT SSNH WAS CAUSE OF DOIAEFNOAUEHEU EDITORS ASOIFNOEUJHOUFA OUTSIDE INFLUENCE!" Is just annoying.

Kishi planned SS and NH for a while. He said as much. Fine, he fucked up plenty of things he supposedly planned. But denying reality like this is bad even for pairingtards.


----------



## Deleted member 23 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Oh my god...he planned NH/SS as per his own statements. There's nothing to argue on that matter.


Seto is defending NH and SS? Is this forum really that bad?


Super Chief said:


> And yet he doesn't bother to mention how long ago he planned it.
> 
> But let's ignore that, as well as the fact NaruHina and SasuSaku were completely one-sided all through the manga, and while we're at it let's ignore the fact the hero's feelings for the heroine were treated as inconsequential despite bearing significant importance all throughout the manga, and let's ignore the fact Kishimoto penned a movie that was essentially a wet dream come true to NaruSaku shippers as recent as 2012, let's ignore it all so we can fixate on this one ambiguous statement and interpret it in a way that'll somehow make all of this shit make sense  - right?
> 
> ...


Try posting when you're not so mad and maybe the stuff you're saying will make sense.
Kishi planned NH and SS sometime ago, mostly like during or before the Kage summit arc.


----------



## Kusa (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Look. Chill. I can only take his statements regarding his plans and intentions at face value. Interviews have stated he's planned it for eight, and the movie itself was in development for two years. Clearly he planned it.
> 
> Now if you wanna argue that it was shoddy writing? Poor planning? Sure, go ahead. I won't disagree, but stop trying to act like this was not his intention when he has plainly stated that it is.



I agree with Seto here. If he said he planned it from the start then he did. He did a horrible job with it. Anyone with a brain can't deny this, but this does not change the fact that it was planned from the start.


----------



## Rashman (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishimoto planned NS alright...... 



....planned to kill it and troll the fans of the pairing until the bitter end.. 

​


----------



## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> let's ignore the fact Kishimoto penned a movie that was essentially a wet dream come true to NaruSaku shippers as recent as 2012,



It was NaruSaku fans wet dreams to have a movie where Sakura is still fully and completely in love with Sasuke, where she's jealous of and made fun of for her small breasts by Hinata, where she complains that Naruto isn't Sasuke and where her feelings for Naruto remain completely platonic as they have always been?


----------



## qazmko (Nov 20, 2014)

I love this threads


----------



## Maracunator (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> It's not like he's going to admit to changing his mind now when he's got a movie out hot on the heels of the manga ending. You don't find it telling he feels compelled to address why X pairing didn't happen when asked about Y?
> 
> Doing something moronic doesn't necessarily make someone a moron. Grow some thicker skin.



Yeah, it totally has to be him lying because of the movie, the idea of him telling a truth inconvenient to the pairing that didn't happen is absurd because... reasons.

Why did he say that about pairings? Perhaps because he was asked a question relevant to pairings? It's not rocket science.

More name-calling, how about if instead of dwindling in between denial and anger you simply accept the facts as they are?

Kishimoto did plan NH and SS from the beginning (SS appeared in chapter 3, and NH appeared the written exam), and after considering the thought of NS for a while he totally trashed it with the failfession (chapter 469) and from 474  until 699 he wasn't shy about reconfirming who Sakura loved no matter how certain NS fans tried to "translate away" those confirmations, kept on twisting panels out of their context to make "big pro-NS developments" out of them despite the telling flaw none had Sakura growing romantic feelings for Naruto out of them, and kept on drawing parallels with any canon/uncanon pairing that appeared to make up for the lack of romantic bonding between the both of them.

There's no shame in admitting you had it wrong in your shipping beliefs, at this point it is pretty much the most dignifying exit you can get out of this shipping war, calling people whose pairings did happen "delusional" and "moronic" and the mangaka a liar for not validating what you believed in won't give any validity to your words, it only shows how they don't have a leg to stand on. Otherwise you're setting yourself to an undignified fall similar to that suffered recently by the ones who were twisting chapter 700 to claim Bolt to be a NS child, Sarada a SK child and Himawari as a LH child and are now finding themselves contradicted by Word of God.


----------



## Super Chief (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Lol what? Let's break it down:
> 
> 1) Kishi says he had NH planned.
> 
> ...



I am about ready to give up on you.

Kishimoto planned NaruHina - of course he did, he must have at some point. The problem with your post is that you fail to see the fallacy in your interpreting of his vague statement to fit your preconceived notions that NaruHina and SasuSaku were meant all along. *The manga does not reflect this*. Hinata's feelings for Naruto were left unrequited all throughout the manga. Sakura's feelings for Sasuke were left unrequited all throughout the manga.

The only pairing that was hinted to not be entirely unrequited is NaruSaku, and it continued to have meaningful development and moments right up until the very end of the manga. That is why any argument that it was discarded as a potential pairing long ago is illogical.

Sakura loved Sasuke, yes, she did, even though at times it appeared she was falling out of love with him - likely to facilitate a NaruSaku endgame - however, this changes nothing. We've always known she loves Sasuke. Naruto has always known this, and his love for her grew more over time regardless of that fact, from a juvenile crush to selfless love.

Kishimoto's words give the impression that he is trying to distance himself from NaruSaku by downplaying the depth of a relationship he himself spent years developing, and that is only to be expected, but you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking he's above embellishing facts and spinning events and development to justify the ending that contradicted the flow of his manga.


----------



## Lace (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Errr...nothing changes. The relationship is still fucked up no matter what way you look at it. These recent interviews actually make Kishi look so bad because he had SS planned and yet he made shit ton of fucking questionable decisions to make it canon.



Did you understand what I wrote or what because that's not what I was talking about.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> OKay you're being thick here Seto.
> 
> 1.Super said NS was never going to happen. My response was that if he considered it than it could have very well happened.



IT COULD HAVE. That doesn't mean it WOULD HAVE. 



> 2. where am I making wild theories to try explain away a terrible ending?



By trying to tell yourself that Kishi's actual intentions were opposite of his stated ones.



> 3.He said if NS happened it would have damaged everyone's character. I responded by saying how if Naruto didnt even like Hinata till very recently,same with Sasuke to Sakura and HInata isnt even a main character. Her wants arent as important and not getting the dick she wants isnt damaging to her character at all.
> 
> 4.NH did have no development that is why the movie is coming out and it was out of character for Naruto to give up on Sakura.We only knew he moved on at the very end. That's nuts.



Fair enough, there is valid criticism to be had there. It's debatable...Yet again, the problem was that you and Super Chief seem to be denying his very intentions.



> Now you tell me how everything I said is me trying to explain away the ending in a crazy fashion? I'm just critizing things that are glaring faults so I dont understand why you are being thick especially being the owner of anti-NH FC. It's not I'm out here saying someone put a gun to his head and that's why NS didnt happen. I'm stating things that are obvious problems with these 2 pairings being canon that super ignored.



Me being the ANH owner doesn't mean I have to agree with you. Especially when I see what is nonsense in dealing with how the ending played out.

NaruSaku would have had the same problems NaruHina had on this. He simply did a poor job developing all three of them. SasuSaku of course being the absolute worst of it.


----------



## Lace (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> True intention exposed.



Not even exposed  I just don't give a shit about all this NS conspiracy crap.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> IT COULD HAVE. That doesn't mean it WOULD HAVE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




When did I say that? Find exactly where I said that.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lace said:


> Did you understand what I wrote or what because that's not what I was talking about.



Half the people in this thread don't understand what Kishi's trying to say in the interview so of course there will be people unable to comprehend simple posts.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

"NS was never going to happen but he considered it"

You stated this was a contradiction.

This is not a contradictory statement. You can consider a multitude of options for a situation, that doesn't mean that you intend to carry them out.


----------



## αce (Nov 20, 2014)

I've never seen more rustled jimmies. The thing I want to know is why Sasuke or Naruto fans would want that terrible character ending up with either of them....


makes no sense to me




can you nerds just get over this


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> What i'm also finding sad is that this conversation only even occurs in the context of pairings, once again cementing Sakura as nothing but a pairing fodder for the entire series, as women tend to be in Naruto.
> 
> When asked about Sakura, it automatically goes to NS, yet there's no real talk at all about Sakura growing for her own sense of self preservation, or her own goals or morals. It still only surrounds the two teammates in which she apparently had the potential to bone
> 
> ...



Man, when Sakura cut her hair in the chuunin exams, after that flashback about Sasuke liking long hair I was like, "Oh shit!" and then nothing came from it.


I think what made Tsunade a good character was that her journey in succeeding the title of Hokage superseded any sort of gender role.  Sakura had brief moments but she never grew out of the token girl and love triangle premise.

Sakura could have been easily played as an everyman.  Especially given all this talk about the broken, messed up ninja system that kind of POV would be much appreciated.  The idea that she's a self made shinobi at this point is more convincing than Naruto, the child of prophecy.  But as I expressed in another thread, I think she along with a lot of the other rookies, were too covered up by the main plot of Part 2 to really develop as individuals.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> Which is not only irrelevant to our discussion, but an attempt on your part at deflecting.
> 
> 
> Are you saying I shouldn't like a pairing in a fictional setting if I wouldn't like it in real life?
> ...



To think that a person would enjoy a fictional relationship that would otherwise be considered totally tragic and/or disgusting is to delude yourself. There's really no other explanation. If a person likes the SS pairing, that means that they have pushed aside Sasuke's wrongdoings in favor of a better head-canon version of him. This of course means that they would also be willing to do the same for a real relationship partner. And that is an absolutely abhorrent thought.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 20, 2014)

ShadowFox88 said:


> Jesus.
> 
> This thread is just
> 
> ...



No:-That has been abundantly made clear.laugh


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> "NS was never going to happen but he considered it"
> 
> You stated this was a contradiction.
> 
> This is not a contradictory statement. You can consider a multitude of options for a situation, that doesn't mean that you intend to carry them out.



Alright you are reaching. When you say something is never going to happen it means just that. He stated he considered NS which is obvious by the NS moments. It coould have happened so this whole thing of it was never going to happen is false as it COULD have happened. LeeHinata, see that was never going to happen. You cant use that when it comes to NS because he seriously considered making NS canon.


----------



## Lace (Nov 20, 2014)

αce said:


> I've never seen more rustled jimmies. The thing I want to know is why Sasuke or Naruto fans would want that terrible character ending up with either of them....
> 
> 
> makes no sense to me
> ...



I think some of us are clinging to the semblance of a good character we were presented with in the beginning of part II


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Super Chief said:


> I am about ready to give up on you.
> 
> Kishimoto planned NaruHina - of course he did, he must have at some point. The problem with your post is that you fail to see the fallacy in your interpreting of his vague statement to fit your preconceived notions that NaruHina and SasuSaku were meant all along. *The manga does not reflect this*. Hinata's feelings for Naruto were left unrequited all throughout the manga. Sakura's feelings for Sasuke were left unrequited all throughout the manga.
> 
> ...



You are in so much denial. Nothing states Kishimoto has been developing NaruSaku for "years". Hell, he didn't even say that he had NaruSaku planned at *first* then he switched to NaruHina but still considered Sakura, he straight up said NH was planned and Sakura was planned with Sasuke. Get over it. 

And you're saying the manga doesn't support this? Really? Right at the end of the manga Sakura still held romantic feelings for Sasuke and even confessed them after his revolution speech. Tough shit, but these were his intentions.


----------



## Cocidius (Nov 20, 2014)

hahaha. People are still writing essays about this? BTW that post about Road to Ninja not being a great argument for NS so true. In fact it's a piss poor one.


----------



## Sayuri (Nov 20, 2014)

It shows how differently Kishi viewed his characters than a lot of the Western fandom. He says that he thought Sakura would be a terrible person for "switching over" to Naruto, which makes sense because a large portion of the manga is about unconditional devotion to someone you love being what true friendship is about. I think Kishi saw that giving up on loving Sasuke means that she was giving up on him in general, which would have made her look bad in comparison to good boy Naruto who never gives up on anyone.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> 4.NH did have no development that is why the movie is coming out and it was out of character for Naruto to give up on Sakura.We only knew he moved on at the very end. That's nuts.



Yes it did 

It had no romantic development (which is what the movie will be for), but I'm pretty sure the Chunin Exams still happened.

And why is it out of character? Better yet, why does it matter?

Naruto pairings aside, there is nothing wrong at all with just getting over her. He can still love her as a close friend and even surrogate family member because of what they've had together. But he's had every right to move on just in general, because she turned him down multiple times and just isn't into him.

I've seen so many treat this like a betrayal, and I just don't get it. Even this notion from Kishi, that Sakura would be a terrible woman has me confused in a similar way. Granted, cultural differences and what have you, but still.


----------



## Lace (Nov 20, 2014)

Sayuri said:


> It shows how differently Kishi viewed his characters than a lot of the Western fandom. He says that he thought Sakura would be a terrible person for "switching over" to Naruto, which makes sense because a large portion of the manga is about unconditional devotion to someone you love being what true friendship is about. I think Kishi saw that giving up on loving Sasuke means that she was giving up on him in general, which would have made her look bad in comparison to good boy Naruto who never gives up on anyone.



But then Naruto moved on from Sakura.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

Hydro Spiral said:


> Yes it did
> 
> *It had no romantic development*, but I'm pretty sure the Chunin Exams still happened.
> 
> ...



WTF are you arguing about? You just admitted it yourself.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

> I've seen so many treat this like a betrayal, and I don't get it. Even this notion from Kishi, that Sakura would be a terrible woman has me confused in a similar way.



Yes, everything else seems irrelevant in comparison. It just seems to show he's got a really warped concept on the very themes he wanted to connect with people through his writing.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> To think that a person would enjoy a fictional relationship that would otherwise be considered totally tragic and/or disgusting is to delude yourself. There's really no other explanation.


 ............This is no different then people liking flawed characters, or villains. Have you by any chance heard of Game of Thrones? 



> a person likes the SS pairing, that means that they have pushed aside Sasuke's wrongdoings in favor of a better head-canon version of him. This of course means that they would also be willing to do the same for a real relationship partner. And that is an absolutely abhorrent thought.


No it doesn't The fact you think it does shows how dense you are and reveals the overall weakness in your argument. There are SS fans with partners not even comparable to Sasuke. This is like saying if you ship two people of the same gender than you must be gay in real life. Your logic sucks ass.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> Man, when Sakura cut her hair in the chuunin exams, after that flashback about Sasuke liking long hair I was like, "Oh shit!" and then nothing came from it.
> 
> 
> I think what made Tsunade a good character was that her journey in succeeding the title of Hokage superseded any sort of gender role.  Sakura had brief moments but she never grew out of the token girl and love triangle premise.
> ...



Even Tsunade was just about honoring her dead boyfriend lover or whatever. And then her dream is nothing more than being a whatever while he's in the Hokage's seat. Real nice message 

Infact, every woman we saw the dreams of had something to do with a man outside of TenTen, and that's just because she's 1010.



Cocidius said:


> hahaha. People are still writing essays about this? BTW that post about Road to Ninja not being a great argument for NS so true. In fact it's a piss poor one.



The only people who would ever use RTN as an argument for NS obviously never watched the movie.  Sakura for example saying that Naruto would never understand her like in the beginning of part 1 cause he didn't have parents and "Sasuke kun would definitely understand me" should have been their first clue.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 20, 2014)

TItroops said:


> another translation .



Yeah, but by the end you seem to imply as if Sakura never loved Sasuke and only decided to force herself out of pity by being sorry for him. Alas, if she never loved him then how could her feelings wavered if she never had them in the first place? And is it really "PRACTICAL Sakura was sympathetic of Sasuke's plight" or more like "Sakura PRACTICALLY always did think of Sasuke..."? I see nothing practical of forcing herself to love a guy who doesn't return her feelings and who always says that she annoys him. She could simply hook him with another girl or respect his wishes and leave him alone or just support him as a friend. It doesn't make sense...

Also is there a line that directly refers to Sakura being considerate of Hinata and only due to that giving up on Naruto or is it just speculation based on that panel when Sakura heals Hinata and thinks how Hinata loves Naruto?

Really...no point in giving up on Naruto just for Hinata's sake just to annoy Sasuke with a love that she supposedly does not have. Unless you mean that she loved Sasuke since god knows how long(maybe during her genin days it was still just a crush and then evolved into more) but at some point she/Kishi considered Naruto as a possible romantic option but gave up on that either because Sasuke was always in her thoughts or due her feelings for Naruto not grown strong enough or as some said because forcing herself to changing her feelings like that would make her/Kishi feel fickle.

That said if Sakura's feelings didn't switch after all does it mean that she wasn't ever in love with Naruto or that since they were wavering it means that they were but were not strong enough/too weak to make her give up on her love for Sasuke?

Anyway Kishi clearly handled all those pairings bad enough by not giving them enough development, by leaving himself an open door and so giving plenty of NS tease just in case, or by making Sasuke act like a jerk 99% of the time to make him later fall in love look like a twist or something. When writing such big series one can always be undecided which would be the best option and yeah, I guess it is possible that he was torn as to whether make NS or NH happen. Though he didn't need SS for that as he could always go for SasuIno or SasuKarin...or SasuAlone. 

Guess in a manga like Bleach, Kubo might also be torn between IchigoRukia, IchigoOrohime or like it was lately IchigoAlone...due to no shipping moments.


----------



## Sayuri (Nov 20, 2014)

Lace said:


> But then Naruto moved on from Sakura.



Yes.

Sasuke put himself in a circumstance where the easiest thing to do would have been for everyone to give up on him. He did that intentionally. Sakura was never in such a position so Naruto moving on from her doesn't make him look bad.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> WTF are you arguing about? You just admitted it yourself.



You said it had no development, and that Naruto getting over her would be out of character.

I'm saying NH had no romantic development (at least not mutually until the upcoming movie), but that the relationship has still had development despite that. The way he see's Hinata very clearly changed after the Exams, and they are far closer than when she was introduced going by 437 or 615. So there's a basis for it having happened at the end. Though the execution could've been better.

Also that there's nothing wrong with Naruto moving on. She doesn't like him like that, and they can still have their bond anyway.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Sayuri said:


> Yes.
> 
> Sasuke put himself in a circumstance where the easiest thing to do would have been for everyone to give up on him. He did that intentionally. Sakura was never in such a position so Naruto moving on from her doesn't make him look bad.



Sasuke lashing out at everyone with the intent to drive them away doesn't make their devotion to him any more endearing, or any more sane. Even in spite of his intentions, distancing oneself from such an individual is not a bad thing.


----------



## Super Chief (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> You are in so much denial. Nothing states Kishimoto has been developing NaruSaku for "years". Hell, he didn't even say that he had NaruSaku planned at *first* then he switched to NaruHina but still considered Sakura, he straight up said NH was planned and Sakura was planned with Sasuke. Get over it.
> 
> And you're saying the manga doesn't support this? Really? Right at the end of the manga Sakura still held romantic feelings for Sasuke and even confessed them after his revolution speech. Tough shit, but these were his intentions.



He didn't have to say it, it was obvious by the way the story unfolded. It's no accident Naruto and Sakura's relationship bears strong resemblance to that of Jiraiya/Tsunade, Obito/Rin and Minato/Kushina. None of this was by accident, it was all by design.

The manga doesn't support it, no, unless you can produce some kind of evidence Sasuke and Naruto like Sakura and Hinata or having any kind of attraction to them.


----------



## mayumi (Nov 20, 2014)

αce said:


> I've never seen more rustled jimmies. The thing I want to know is why Sasuke or Naruto fans would want that terrible character ending up with either of them....
> 
> 
> makes no sense to me
> ...



I think it has more to do with the fact that Sakura apparently does not have a choice of choosing neither and being single that has most facepalming.


----------



## Mael (Nov 20, 2014)

αce said:


> I've never seen more rustled jimmies. The thing I want to know is why Sasuke or Naruto fans would want that terrible character ending up with either of them....
> 
> 
> makes no sense to me
> ...



C'mon you know that's impossible.  People will never believe the sincerity of the writer when they actually admit this is what they were inevitably planning at some point in time. 

Frankly I don't care anymore.  His views are indeed bizarre but I saw him treating Sakura like a punching bag for some time.  Writing was on the wall there save for the truly naive.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishi isn't justifying why SS happened.  He's justifying why NS didn't.  The interview has little to do with SS since the interviewer wasn't asking about it; which makes this thread even more pathetic.The context of Kishi's answers went over most people's head.


----------



## Bellville (Nov 20, 2014)

Holy crapoly this thread flew off the rails.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Isn't it obvious that NS was screwed over because the guy has a twisted view of morality?

"Obito was the coolest guy"



I remember people from H&E were jumping ship after Naruto said that.


----------



## Zynn (Nov 20, 2014)

Bellville said:


> Holy crapoly this thread flew off the rails.



^Nahh, it's not really that bad. This is like a royal rumble, no?


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> Kishi isn't justifying why SS happened.  He's justifying why NS didn't.  The interview has little to do with SS since the interviewer wasn't asking about it; which makes this thread even more pathetic.The context of Kishi's answers went over most people's head.



What? He mentions twice about who Sakura's love interest is. 


?Anyway, Sakura really has always just been wholeheartedly about Sasuke?
?And I think she?s  wholeheartedly devoted to Sasuke anyway?

Even though he wasn't being asked about it, he's clearly trying to set out his intentions.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> Even Tsunade was just about honoring her dead boyfriend lover or whatever. And then her dream is nothing more than being a whatever while he's in the Hokage's seat. Real nice message



I feel like if that was the message being sent then there wouldn't be a reason to create the Nawaki character.  And you wouldn't need this backstory about Tsunade passing down her own "will of fire" through the change in ninja platoon formations.  Which has been elaborated on more than twice.


----------



## Bellville (Nov 20, 2014)

Sayuri said:


> Yes.
> 
> Sasuke put himself in a circumstance where the easiest thing to do would have been for everyone to give up on him. He did that intentionally. Sakura was never in such a position so Naruto moving on from her doesn't make him look bad.



This does not make sense. Sasuke does everything that says "get away from me" and actually doing so is negative? But Sakura just being her normal old self somehow garners Naruto moving on from her? I'm????? I'm sure this was Kishimoto's thinking too, but it makes no fucking sense from a sane person's perspective that those two things go hand in hand. Not in the slightest.


Zynn said:


> ^Nahh, it's not really that bad. This is like a royal rumble, no?


I can't even bring myself to do more than skim the NarSak essays


----------



## Sayuri (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Sasuke lashing out at everyone with the intent to drive them away doesn't make their devotion to him any more endearing, or any more sane. Even in spite of his intentions, distancing oneself from such an individual is not a bad thing.





Bellville said:


> This does not make sense. Sasuke does everything that says "get away from me" and actually doing so is negative? But Sakura just being her normal old self somehow garners Naruto moving on from her? I'm????? I'm sure this was Kishimoto's thinking too, but it makes no fucking sense from a sane person's perspective that those two things go hand in hand. Not in the slightest.
> I can't even bring myself to do more than skim the NarSak essays




This manga has shown many, many times that you shouldn't give up on people/trying to change them no matter how batshit they get. Look at Gaara -- he went crazy when even his close ones gave up on him, told everyone to stay away, and was only healed with the power of Jesusruto love. To Kishi, love means never ever giving up on that person. I am not saying whether I agree or disagree with Kishi's philosophy or whether it makes sense or not, I am merely stating that it is a pattern that the manga has followed. 

Go take a breath of fresh air; it'll dispel some negative energy that is pent up in these threads.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Sayuri said:


> This manga has shown many, many times that you shouldn't give up on people/trying to change them no matter how batshit they get. Look at Gaara -- he went crazy when even his close ones gave up on him, and was only healed with the power of Jesusruto love. I am not commenting with an opinion, merely stating that it is a pattern that the manga has followed.



The manga sells a lot of things. That doesn't mean you have to buy it. Clearly sensible people are not buying what he's selling. I'm aware of the manga's pattern, as are the people here. That's not the basis of mine's nor anyone else's contention however.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Isn't it obvious that NS was screwed over because the guy has a twisted view of morality?
> 
> "Obito was the coolest guy"
> 
> ...



.......Elicit you've got some issues.

If you'd look past your little pairing for a second, you'd realize that more important things were screwed up by Kishimoto, like the characters, and the actual trajectory of the series.

NS as a pairing is essentially irrelevant in this interview, because Kishi is indirectly confirming other more unfortunate aspects about the series based on his viewpoints.


----------



## Sayuri (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> The manga sells a lot of things. That doesn't mean you have to buy it. Clearly sensible people are not buying what he's selling. I'm aware of the manga's pattern, as are the people here. That's not the basis of mine's nor anyone else's contention however.



I agree you don't have to buy it, and it's clear that you don't. I was merely replying to someone who replied to me.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> I feel like if that was the message being sent then there wouldn't be a reason to create the Nawaki character.  And you wouldn't need this backstory about Tsunade passing down her own "will of fire" through the change in ninja platoon formations.  Which has been elaborated on more than twice.



Unfortunately a lot of things in part 1 were misleading to how they would turn out in part 2.

 In part 1 we were taught to assume that hardwork surpasses what you inherited or what fate has planned out for you, and part 2 directly negates this by proving it is all about what you inherited, where you came from and what fate has planned out for you .

Tsunade is just another casualty in a long line


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> What? He mentions twice about who Sakura's love interest is.
> 
> 
> “Anyway, Sakura really has always just been wholeheartedly about Sasuke”
> ...



Lel, what intentions?  He  simply stated that the reason NS didn't happen was because Sakura only had feelings for Sasuke, and that he felt said feelings changing to Naruto so late in the story would make her look bad. He's stating why NS didn't happen, and why NH did.


Kishi wasn't asked about SS so his response to the question over NS and NH can't be used to address why SS is canon.


----------



## Bellville (Nov 20, 2014)

Sayuri said:


> This manga has shown many, many times that you shouldn't give up on people/trying to change them no matter how batshit they get. Look at Gaara -- he went crazy when even his close ones gave up on him, told everyone to stay away, and was only healed with the power of Jesusruto love. To Kishi, love means never ever giving up on that person. I am not saying whether I agree or disagree with Kishi's philosophy or whether it makes sense or not, I am merely stating that it is a pattern that the manga has followed.
> 
> Go take a breath of fresh air; it'll dispel some negative energy that is pent up in these threads.


The pattern had the subtlety of a freight train. It became more and more problematic when nobody seemed to be able to let go no matter how heinous the behavior got. Obito sounds like the worst of the bunch considering all that he did and was forgiven for. It's twisted, and SasuSaku falls right into that fucked up pattern, so on that I'll agree. I can't say I was contesting the existence of such, but I am saying the implications of the interview are gross.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> Lel, what intentions?  He  simply stated that the reason NS didn't happen was because Sakura only had feelings for Sasuke, and that he felt said feelings changing to Naruto so late in the story would make her look bad. He's stating why NS didn't happen, and why NH did.



He *already* had NH planned. Anyone with a brain can see what he was planning with the two relationships, including SasuSaku. He's talking about all 3.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> .......Elicit you've got some issues.
> 
> If you'd look past your little pairing for a second, you'd realize that more important things were screwed up by Kishimoto, like the characters, and the actual trajectory of the series.
> 
> NS as a pairing is essentially irrelevant in this interview, because Kishi is indirectly confirming other more unfortunate aspects about the series based on his viewpoints.


You're right, it's just a little pairing, but I'm already aware of those other unfortunate aspects. I'm venting about my pairing because it's a pairing thread...


----------



## King Scoop (Nov 20, 2014)

The problem is he never developed SS. There was never a relationship between the two. Sasuke was right when he said, it was all some make believe fantasy in her head. We never even got a reason why she loved him in the first place. He tried not to make her look terrible, but completely failed at it. Moving on to someone else is what normal people do.

And what about Ino? I guess it means she's a terrible person because she moved on with her life. Kishimoto should have just stuck to writing fights and left out all this relationship crap.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> You're right, it's just a little pairing, but I'm already aware of those other unfortunate aspects. I'm venting about my pairing because it's a pairing thread...




Your attachment to NS is the wrong thing to take away from this interview, is what i'm saying. It doesn't matter, and is without merit to bring up. It dilutes the real message we should be discussing, in that the characters being discussed are empty vessels by Kishi's own admission, which is a far larger problem than who got with who.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 20, 2014)

Pairings...serious business^^

Truly, I wonder if there is another shounen manga where fans are so highly regarding shippings as to consider an endings where their favorite pairing does not happen as a failure.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> He *already* had NH planned.


I know this...



> Anyone with a brain can see what he was planning with the two relationships, including SasuSaku.


 And I know this


> He's talking about all 3.


Okay.


----------



## izanagi x izanami (Nov 20, 2014)

SS was kinda obvious since beginning of manga now..., so kishi planned SS from the beginning of manga,  

NH is pure BS


----------



## eluna (Nov 20, 2014)

izanagi x izanami said:


> NH was kinda obvious since beginning of manga...
> 
> SS is pure BS


Fixed


----------



## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

I wonder how many people cried into their pillow whilst muffling "Fuck you, Kishimoto," after the pairings were revealed. 

It looks as though some people have been traumatised.


----------



## bluemiracle (Nov 20, 2014)

Lace said:


> This thread was fun when it was just bashing SS's dynamic.


----------



## Meia (Nov 20, 2014)

I dream of a world where the entire big 3 got trolled.  

Imagine the rage, all the fandoms connecting through pure misery.


----------



## izanagi x izanami (Nov 20, 2014)

eluna said:


> Fixed



lol, salty NH fan?


----------



## santanico (Nov 20, 2014)

Gunners said:


> I wonder how many people cried into their pillow whilst muffling "Fuck you, Kishimoto," after the pairings were revealed.
> 
> It looks as though some people have been traumatised.



you'd be surprised how right you are


----------



## Itachі (Nov 20, 2014)

Shippers of the big three in Nardo, do you actually think that any of the pairings even pass mediocrity?


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 75 (29 members and 46 guests)


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Sayuri said:


> It shows how differently Kishi viewed his characters than a lot of the Western fandom. He says that he thought Sakura would be a terrible person for "switching over" to Naruto, which makes sense because a large portion of the manga is about unconditional devotion to someone you love being what true friendship is about. I think Kishi saw that giving up on loving Sasuke means that she was giving up on him in general, which would have made her look bad in comparison to good boy Naruto who never gives up on anyone.



Pretty much.



Lace said:


> But then Naruto moved on from Sakura.



I think we've reached a point where it became obvious that he never really loved Sakura <3333


----------



## Karsh (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> Hahaha


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Gunners said:


> I wonder how many people cried into their pillow whilst muffling "Fuck you, Kishimoto," after the pairings were revealed.
> 
> It looks as though some people have been traumatised.



ladyGt drew a fanart of alcoholic broken man Naruto, there is nothing lower than that tbh.

A girl made up a long ass theory on how the ending was genjutsu and how Himawari was actually Lee's daughter.

Traumatic shit, really.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Shippers of the big three in Nardo, do you actually think that any of the pairings even pass mediocrity?



Mediocrity shmediocrity.


----------



## Itachі (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Mediocrity shmediocrity.



I'll take that as a no, then.


----------



## ZE (Nov 20, 2014)

The new movie tells the story of how Naruto fell in love with Hinata.
I bet that even if you paid them, most of NS wouldn't watch the movie.


----------



## Kanga (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> *ladyGt drew a fanart of alcoholic broken man Naruto, there is nothing lower than that tbh.*
> 
> A girl made up a long ass theory on how the ending was genjutsu and how Himawari was actually Lee's daughter.
> 
> Traumatic shit, really.






Yup. That's pretty much rock bottom.


----------



## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

What if I tell you I've never watched a single Naruto movie. How about that?


----------



## eluna (Nov 20, 2014)

izanagi x izanami said:


> lol, happy NH fan?


Fixed again  and please stop using the word salt this shit become ridiculous argument


----------



## Lumia (Nov 20, 2014)

Oh wow. I'm struggling to suppress my laughter at all this denial/hatred


----------



## Itachі (Nov 20, 2014)

Rios said:


> What if I tell you I've never watched a single Naruto movie. How about that?



You lucky bastard, Naruto movies are complete and utter shit.


----------



## izanagi x izanami (Nov 20, 2014)

eluna said:


> Fixed again



 impossible, your obviously not SS fan....,kishi just trolled NH,NS fans...

NS- was never real- kishi considered it at some point but thats it 
NH-no development ,pure BS,settled with second prize
SS- planned from the beginning of manga


----------



## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> ladyGt drew a fanart of alcoholic broken man Naruto, there is nothing lower than that tbh.
> 
> A girl made up a long ass theory on how the ending was genjutsu and how Himawari was actually Lee's daughter.
> 
> Traumatic shit, really.



I don't get it. 

I mean putting things into context: if someone were to start drawing pictures of their actual love interest being a drunk and a wrote a series a series of fan fictions, in response to them entering a relationship with someone else, people would be frightened. 

I suppose it's fortunate that the obsession is directed at a fictional character and not people they can actually hurt.


----------



## Itachі (Nov 20, 2014)

I think that Kishi trolled every pairing, they all lack development.


----------



## ZE (Nov 20, 2014)

Rios said:


> What if I tell you I've never watched a single Naruto movie. How about that?



Join Date: Jun 2007

I can see why.

Back during 2004-2005, we would eat anything naruto-related. 

The first movie? 
"OMG; a Naruto movie! Can't pass this!"

Second movie?
"OMG; a Naruto movie with Gaara! Gotta see!"

Third movie?
"WTF? A Naruto movie about animals? Forget it."
I never watched another naruto movie ever since.


----------



## eluna (Nov 20, 2014)

izanagi x izanami said:


> impossible, your obviously not SS fan....,kishi just trolled NH,NS fans...


Wow give NH two kids and a happy marriage is trolling? This place never cease too amaze me


----------



## Haruka Katana (Nov 20, 2014)

ZE said:


> Join Date: Jun 2007
> 
> I can see why.
> 
> ...



2006 here (But I read Naruto since 2005). You're right bout the third movie, it looks so filler I didn't watch it 

I watched all of the shippuuden movies though :X


----------



## izanagi x izanami (Nov 20, 2014)

eluna said:


> Wow give NH two kids and a happy marriage is trolling? This place never cease too amaze me



the trolling part is.... hinata is second prize,  kishi confirmed it


----------



## Itachі (Nov 20, 2014)

izanagi x izanami said:


> the trolling part is.... hinata is second prize,  kishi confirmed it



He intended for Sakura to be Sasuke's partner, how is Hinata a second prize?


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Gunners said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> I mean putting things into context: if someone were to start drawing pictures of their actual love interest being a drunk and a wrote a series a series of fan fictions, in response to them entering a relationship with someone else, people would be frightened.
> 
> I suppose it's fortunate that the obsession is directed at a fictional character and not people they can actually hurt.



I just don't understand why _why_ why they don't wish happiness for these characters if they loved them damn much. If he didn't feel strongly about her, if he wasn't happy, Naruto wouldn't have married to Hinata, period.

There is no way you can explain shit like this: 

It's so disturbing, I'm out of words here.


----------



## eluna (Nov 20, 2014)

izanagi x izanami said:


> the trolling part is.... hinata is second prize,  kishi confirmed it



So moving on from a person don't give two fucks about you, realize you have someone important watching you and risking her life to protect you just made her silver medal?

BTW I'm done with this thread just have fun guys


----------



## Itachі (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> I just don't understand why _why_ why they don't wish happiness for these characters if they loved them damn much. If he didn't feel strongly about her, if he wasn't happy, Naruto wouldn't have married to Hinata, period.
> 
> There is no way you can explain shit like this:
> 
> It's so disturbing, I'm out of words here.



How's that bashing NaruHina though? 

Still fucking hilarious.


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> I think we've reached a point where it became obvious that he never really loved Sakura <3333


Except that he obviously did. Databook says as much, and even in this interview he thought about the possibility of narusaku but he made SS instead about Sakura would be too much of a ''bitch'', why would he consider that possibility if naruto didnt love sakura?


----------



## Overhaul (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> I just don't understand why _why_ why they don't wish happiness for these characters if they loved them damn much. If he didn't feel strongly about her, if he wasn't happy, Naruto wouldn't have married to Hinata, period.
> 
> There is no way you can explain shit like this:
> 
> It's so disturbing, I'm out of words here.


Creepiness aside,that's some damn good art.


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> I just don't understand why _why_ why they don't wish happiness for these characters if they loved them damn much. If he didn't feel strongly about her, if he wasn't happy, Naruto wouldn't have married to Hinata, period.
> 
> There is no way you can explain shit like this:
> 
> It's so disturbing, I'm out of words here.


marrying Hinata through a retcon doesnt change the fact that Naruto didnt fucking love hinata for the whole damn manga. Yes the movie, isnt the real naruto, if he was, that wouldve been made obvious in the manga that he loved her and not in the movie.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Itachі said:


> How's that bashing NaruHina though?
> 
> Still fucking hilarious.



I think the artist's trying to indicate that Naruto isn't happy with Hinata and his love life so he's some sort of a drunk


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> Except that he obviously did. Databook says as much, and even in this interview he thought about the possibility of narusaku but he made SS instead about Sakura would be too much of a ''bitch'', why would he consider that possibility if naruto didnt love sakura?



It goes for both sides really. If he really loved her he'd have stayed single until the end just like Jiraiya and Obito did. That's how it works in this manga.



Itachі said:


> How's that bashing NaruHina though?
> 
> Still fucking hilarious.



Apparently Naruto made a huge mistake by marrying Hinata and he is drowning in his sorrows because he couldn't get to be with his Sakura-chan.





Tenrol said:


> marrying Hinata through a retcon doesnt change the fact that Naruto didnt fucking love hinata for the whole damn manga. Yes the movie, isnt the real naruto, if he was, that wouldve been made obvious in the manga and not in the movie.



Jesus, that's some idiocy right here.

Kishimoto is bluntly stating NaruHina was endgame all along and he "considered NaruSaku for a moment" but in the end went with his original plan.

Do you even fucking know what retcon means?


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> marrying Hinata through a retcon doesnt change the fact that Naruto didnt fucking love hinata for the whole damn manga. Yes the movie, isnt the real naruto, if he was, that wouldve been made obvious in the manga that he loved her and not in the movie.



> Chapter 700 shows NaruHina
> Movie isn't real about NaruHina even though it's supposed to be about it

I've seen it all.


----------



## Itachі (Nov 20, 2014)

I'd rather be a depressed drunk than end up with Sakura, all I have to do now is start drinking.


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> It
> 
> 
> Jesus, that's some idiocy right here.
> ...




a retcon is that movie. in fact its the epitome of it.

''quite some time'' isnt ''all along'' but whatever. Thats quite some bad planning though if it was ''planned all along'', he planned naruhina but apparantly making naruto fall in love with Hinata wasn't in his plan at all. Instead hes resorting to SP to asspull it for him.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

I need to take a break from fandom. You people are just being dumbasses at this point.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Technically Naruto didn't really love Hinata until the movie, so most NH arguments for making sense of the pairing were shot down. 

SS arguments were always terrible so it may as well be considered an asspull.


----------



## santanico (Nov 20, 2014)

Revy said:


> Creepiness aside,that's some damn good art.



I've seen better


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> a retcon is that movie. in fact its the epitome of it.
> 
> ''quite some time'' isnt ''all along'' but whatever. Thats quite some bad planning though if it was ''planned all along'', he planned naruhina but apparantly making naruto fall in love with Hinata wasn't in his plan at all. Instead hes resorting to SP to asspull it for him.



How the fuck he can get married to her and have kids if he wasn't in love with her?

Your brain is farting, get some fresh air.

(or dunno, are you trolling?)


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> I need to take a break from fandom. You people are just being dumbasses at this point.


Yeah, go read a shoujo in which pairings like SasuSaku are done so much better.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> I need to take a break from fandom. You people are just being dumbasses at this point.



Get out then and stop acting like you're intelligent or something compared to the rest, which you aren't.


----------



## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Technically Naruto didn't really love Hinata until the movie, so most NH arguments for making sense of the pairing were shot down.
> 
> SS arguments were always terrible so it may as well be considered an asspull.



He doesn't fall in love with her romantically until the movie. But he obviously already loved her.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Yeah, go read a shoujo in which pairings like SasuSaku are done so much better.



I actually like what we got. The only thing I'd change was Iron Country. Even so, I doubt some other story could have made it better.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

thehumangod1 said:


> He doesn't fall in love with her romantically until the movie. But he obviously already loved her.


What...?


----------



## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> What...?



He loved her as a friend or whatever you wanna call a platonic love, before. Then in the movie he starts to love her as a lover.


----------



## Young Lord Minato (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Technically Naruto didn't really love Hinata until the movie, so most NH arguments for making sense of the pairing were shot down.
> 
> SS arguments were always terrible so it may as well be considered an asspull.


How does the pairing not make sense in that context? He moved on from Sakura, realized how Hinata felt and came to reciprocate those feelings. Makes plenty of sense to me.


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> How the fuck he can get married to her and have kids if he wasn't in love with her?
> 
> Your brain is farting, get some fresh air.
> 
> (or dunno, are you trolling?)



Where's the development leading to that? Because theres none. 

Sure he has kids with her, but never once he has shown romantic affection towards her for 99.9% of the manga. And youre gonna try to convince he planned naruhina all along? I wouldnt really call an asspull a plan.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

thehumangod1 said:


> He doesn't fall in love with her romantically until the movie. But he obviously already loved her.



*Get repped for your awesome sig, noob!*


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> Where's the development leading to that? Because theres none.
> 
> Sure he has kids with her, but never once he has shown romantic affection towards her for 99.9% of the manga. And youre gonna try to convince he planned naruhina all along? I wouldnt really call an asspull a plan.





Even when he's bluntly stating it was endgame all along, you come up with this fanfiction. 

Just wow.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

jamse1 said:


> What people don't understand is that japanese culture is different than us westerners. Basically if Sakura went with another guy after confessing to Sasuke, it would be considered cheating.
> 
> _Fujiwara no Mokou_



Ah, another hint Sasuke was butthurt over Sakura supposedly abandoning him during Iron Country. There's a few already. I hope Kishi confirms it. I could read a few jilted Sasuke fics.



Tenrol said:


> Where's the development leading to that? Because theres none.
> 
> Sure he has kids with her, but never once he has shown romantic affection towards her for 99.9% of the manga. And youre gonna try to convince he planned naruhina all along? I wouldnt really call an asspull a plan.



There was no on-screen resolution, but you put 2 and 2 together. Do you really think that Naruto, the hero of this manga, would've married some chick out of pity or something? Of course he likes her _romantically_. He's such a dumbass, how else would you have found the need to stick his penis inside of her vagina if he didn't like her _romantically_. He's pretty clueless.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol, please read the fucking interview, or translate it if you think you can do better.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> Where's the development leading to that? Because theres none.
> 
> Sure he has kids with her, but never once he has shown romantic affection towards her for 99.9% of the manga. And youre gonna try to convince he planned naruhina all along? I wouldnt really call an asspull a plan.


He said he planned NaruHina "quite a long time ago", considered going with NaruSaku instead, but stuck with NaruHina and SasuSaku for absolutely no good reason given. The only thing we got was moral outrage over Sakura getting over Sasuke...


----------



## A. Waltz (Nov 20, 2014)

remember that fake sakura confession? i feel like that's what kishi's talking about

she'd be a terrible women to just lie to herself and start going after naruto simply because he's the one who's easily available. "welp i couldn't get with the guy i truly wanted, so ill just jump ship to the guy i used to call a loser because he's finally cool now"

it would make her seem absolutely terrible lol.

it's more honorable for her to have waited for the one guy she's loved her entire life. a "pure" love. no matter what happened, she'd stick to him. it's different than in the west but that's what it is. why do you think kakashi calls her a pure kind girl? cuz she loves sasuke no matter what. she's complimented for it in the manga lol.

same with hinata. she always loved naruto from the very beginning, even before he became a respected person. thus she's rewarded for her pure love by having naruto in the end.

same with naruto. he always thought of sasuke as a brother and friend, and he had that love for him since they were kids. he never gave up on him, he was willing to die to bring him back because seeing him hurt also hurt him. and in the end, naruto was able to bring sasuke back, all thanks to that pure unrelenting love. 


people ask "well why didn't naruto get sakura if he's loved her since they were kids!" sakura never liked him back. it just wasn't going to happen. naruto saw this, and he decided that the best way he can make her happy is by getting sasuke back. team 7 is his family. i think that in their case, it's more of a crush. you never really saw naruto acknowledge sakura before they were on the same team. meanwhile, hinata loved naruto before they were put on teams, same with naruto->sasuke and sakura->sasuke. but when they were finally put on teams, naruto saw sakura and thought "wow she's cute!" and that was pretty much the start of that lol. it didn't have much precedence like the other pairings/loves.
also, the fact that naruto decided to bring sasuke back for sakura, kind of shows that he was willing to put that aside for them. in a sense, you could say he 'gave up', and thus his love wasn't as pure and unrelenting as the other 3 loves(well i would still call it pure but i just mean it wasn't his goal. his goal was sasuke). though im not saying that he gave up in a bad way, im just saying that he let it go. it's very honorable and mature of him. plus, how terrible would it have been for him to go after sakura in a serious manner after sasuke left? she was grieving for sasuke this entire time. sasuke was his best friend. he couldn't just go for it. it wouldn't have been pure.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> He said he planned NaruHina "quite a long time ago", considered going with NaruSaku instead, but stuck with NaruHina and SasuSaku for absolutely no good reason given. The only thing we got was moral outrage over Sakura getting over Sasuke...



He doesn't have to justify himself. It's his story after all.
Beside, it's Shonen Jump who interviews him. He can't really lie to his bosses.



A. Waltz said:


> remember that fake sakura confession? i feel like that's what kishi's talking about
> 
> she'd be a terrible women to just lie to herself and start going after naruto simply because he's the one who's easily available. "welp i couldn't get with the guy i truly wanted, so ill just jump ship to the guy i used to call a loser because he's finally cool now"
> 
> ...



Not shallow at all.


----------



## Rosi (Nov 20, 2014)

Holy shit, I missed a shitstorm 


Kishi, wow


----------



## Suigetsu (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> ladyGt drew a fanart of alcoholic broken man Naruto, there is nothing lower than that tbh.



Well, she can draw wathever the fuck pleases her for the sake of expression. What have you drawn or done?


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> Even when he's bluntly stating it was endgame all along, you come up with this fanfiction.
> 
> Just wow.



.yet he forgot to include the moment of naruto falling in love with hinata, makes sense.

even a fanfiction would make more sense than this shit.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> .yet he forgot to include the moment of naruto falling in love with hinata, makes sense.
> 
> even a fanfiction would make more sense than this shit.



He planned for the pairings but the execution was terrible. That's why there's always a huge debate.


----------



## Ultimania (Nov 20, 2014)

The ultimate proof that Kishi is not only a horrible writer, but he somehow made Naruto even worse than Dragon Ball. Congratulations Kishi, because you're a fucking winner.

I remember people calling Bleach shit and praising Naruto like the second coming of Christ. Now Bleach is more awesome than ever and Naruto...well, you get the picture.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> .yet he forgot to include the moment of naruto falling in love with hinata, makes sense.
> 
> even a fanfiction would make more sense than this shit.



We can't have a movie about love if the resolution is in the manga. Let's use our hear a bit, shall we ?



Suigetsu said:


> Well, she can draw wathever the fuck pleases her for the sake of expression. What have you drawn or done?



I did draw some stuffs when I saw a kid.
But I don't really like fanarts or fanfics ( Even on subjects I like. )
I tried to do a fanfic once ( Harry Potter ) , but I stopped because I felt I was bending the original work for my own purpose. And that's a mark of disrespect in my book.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

thehumangod1 said:


> He loved her as a friend or whatever you wanna call a platonic love, before. Then in the movie he starts to love her as a lover.


I doubt he loved her platonically...



Young Lord Minato said:


> How does the pairing not make sense in that context? He moved on from Sakura, realized how Hinata felt and came to reciprocate those feelings. Makes plenty of sense to me.


I'm talking about arguments such as the handhold being romantic, Naruto looking into Hinata's eyes being romantic, and Naruto having a piqued romantic interest in Hinata. Naruto could have moved on to someone else other than Hinata.


----------



## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> .yet he forgot to include the moment of naruto falling in love with hinata, makes sense.
> 
> even a fanfiction would make more sense than this shit.



He didn't show the moment both people in any couple fell in love. He just skipped to the epilogue and everyone was married. One of the things that makes NH better and more important than everything else is that it will be the only pairing where we actually see when both people fall in love and when they come together.



Elicit94 said:


> I doubt he loved her platonically...



Well her death caused him worse emotions than Jiraiya's so if he didn't love her then he didn't love Jiraiya either.


----------



## A. Waltz (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> He doesn't have to justify himself. It's his story after all.
> Beside, it's Shonen Jump who interviews him. He can't really lie to his bosses.
> 
> 
> ...





A. Waltz said:


> remember that fake sakura confession? i feel like that's what kishi's talking about
> 
> she'd be a terrible women to just lie to herself and start going after naruto simply because he's the one who's easily available. "welp i couldn't get with the guy i truly wanted, so ill just jump ship to the guy i used to call a loser because he's finally cool now"
> 
> ...



i added on to the post you quoted lol. yeah sakura would have been pretty shallow to have just gone after naruto. im sure that's what kishi's referring to lol.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Suigetsu said:


> Well, she can draw wathever the fuck pleases her for the sake of expression. What have you drawn or done?



She's doing a 'i'm outraged by NH / SS morals' act. While she draws Naruto as an alcoholic, which ya know, it's questionable. Her complaints are shallow and just a mask for her pairing not being canon butthurt. Same for anyone making abuse jokes or insinuating / supporting theories that there's cheating.

You can't have the cake and eat it too, ya know. I've only met one or two people who are genuine about their outrage. People who endorse or joke about this similar things have no ground to stand on while criticising something like that.


----------



## Young Lord Minato (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> I doubt he loved her platonically...
> 
> 
> I'm talking about arguments such as the handhold being romantic, Naruto looking into Hinata's eyes being romantic, and Naruto having a piqued romantic interest in Hinata. Naruto could have moved on to someone else other than Hinata.


Oh, that stuff. Yeah, I never saw that as romantic at all. Same goes for all those moments some claim to support NS or SS.


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> There was no on-screen resolution, but you put 2 and 2 together. Do you really think that Naruto, the hero of this manga, would've married some chick out of pity or something? Of course he likes her _romantically_. He's such a dumbass, how else would you have found the need to stick his penis inside of her vagina if he didn't like her _romantically_. He's pretty clueless.



The whole point of NH was to give Naruto a kid, that's all there is to it. Kishi doesnt give enough fucks about NH to show Naruto falling in love with her on panels. He couldve made Naruto falling in love with anyone that way, Hinata was just the most convenient girl since she was ready to give him babies.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

That artist needs help, but I am finding supreme irony in supporters of SasuSaku inquiring about another's state of mind. 

I mean that is what offends you all?


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That artist needs help, but I am finding supreme irony in supporters of SasuSaku inquiring about another's state of mind.
> 
> I mean that is what offends you all?



so much this.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> The whole point of NH was to give Naruto a kid, that's all there is to it. Kishi doesnt give enough fucks about NH to show Naruto falling in love with her on panels. He couldve made Naruto falling in love with anyone that way, Hinata was just the most convenient girl since she was ready to give him babies.



Yes, he spent an inane amount of time pushing the Hinata > Naruto envelope because he didn't care about the pairing and only cared about the baby.

Do you listen to yourself?



Seto Kaiba said:


> That artist needs help, but I am finding supreme irony in supporters of SasuSaku inquiring about another's state of mind.
> 
> I mean that is what offends you all?



I'm not offended by that drawing. I just don't take her (and people like her) criticism seriously. It's pairing butthurt disguised as moral outrage.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Ultimania said:


> The ultimate proof that Kishi is not only a horrible writer, but he somehow made Naruto even worse than Dragon Ball. Congratulations Kishi, because you're a fucking winner.
> 
> I remember people calling Bleach shit and praising Naruto like the second coming of Christ. Now Bleach is more awesome than ever and Naruto...well, you get the picture.



Bleach is bad in a lot of ways, but one thing it does do better than Naruto is its character relationships and emotions.


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Yes, he spent an inane amount of time pushing the Hinata > Naruto envelope because he didn't care about the pairing and only cared about the baby.
> 
> Do you listen to yourself?



Yet that didnt lead to anything from Naruto's side aka all platonic moments.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> Bleach is bad in a lot of ways, but one thing it does do better than Naruto is its character relationships and emotions.



Yeah, I can't say Kubo has really fucked anything up other than...the laws of nature of his own universe...but he is solid on characterization for the most part. At the very least, you get impressions of a guy that has a better understanding of people.


----------



## Puppetry (Nov 20, 2014)

Kishi is stupid. NH is okay. NS is better. SS is just


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> Yet that didnt lead to anything from Naruto's side aka all platonic moments.



It didn't led to anything romantic? They had two kids.





Inuhanyou said:


> Bleach is bad in a lot of ways, but one thing it does do better than Naruto is its character relationships and emotions.



Let me guess, IchiRuki fan?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

You guys also don't have to attack ladygt. She gets attacked everyday for drawing what she want to draw, cause she's NS doesn't mean she deserves to be mocked for that  Her emotions are just more visible because she's a talented artist who can draw what she's thinking. Hopefully she'll go on to be a professional artist one day and forget about the years she wasted being a hardcore NS fan


----------



## Haruka Katana (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> And I was reluctant on translating this when someone requested it, I guess you can figure out why now.



Lel this is inevitable regardless


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That artist needs help, but I am finding supreme irony in supporters of SasuSaku inquiring about another's state of mind.
> 
> I mean that is what offends you all?


I don't think we have much to worry about SasuSaku anymore. Sasuke is no longer on the path that turned him into the near crazed monster he was before. And we saw his internal monologue of why he did everything. Plus everything shows that after Sasuke was redeemed, he and Sakura got a very loving relationship.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I don't think we have much to worry about SasuSaku anymore. Sasuke is no longer on the path that turned him into the near crazed monster he was before. And we saw his internal monologue of why he did everything. Plus everything shows that after Sasuke was redeemed, he and Sakura got a very loving relationship.



Jesus Christ. Did you even follow what anyone has said at all? 

How does that excuse what he did before anyway?


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> You guys also don't have to attack ladygt. She gets attacked everyday for drawing what she want to draw, cause she's NS doesn't mean she deserves to be mocked for that  Her emotions are just more visible because she's a talented artist who can draw what she's thinking. Hopefully she'll go on to be a professional artist one day and forget about the years she wasted being a hardcore NS fan



I'm not attacking her. I hope she does another alcoholic Naruto fanart, because I found it hillarious (and even reblogged it). What I'm saying is that her moral outrage is not valid. You don't clutch your pearls while committing a crime unless you're schizophrenic. Same goes for anyone mocking or insinuating such things.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Jesus Christ. Did you even follow what anyone has said at all?
> 
> How does that excuse what he did before anyway?


Since it explains why, clear as day, what he did what he did (at least in regards to Team 7). Why he kept pushing everyone away. Now that that is solved, and that he's actively working to redeem himself, and he's returned Sakura's feelings, isn't abusing her, neglecting her, or treating her badly at all, what is the problem?

I was just adding my two cents dude, calm down.


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> It didn't led to anything romantic? They had two kids.



through an asspull yes, congratulation.  Naruto wasnt shown to love hinata for 699 chapters despite all their moments, so it cant be anything else other than an asspul.  Narutoxfoddergirl would make as much sense.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since it explains why, clear as day, what he did what he did (at least in regards to Team 7). Why he kept pushing everyone away. Now that that is solved, and that he's actively working to redeem himself, and he's returned Sakura's feelings, isn't abusing her, neglecting her, or treating her badly at all, what is the problem?
> 
> I was just adding my two cents dude, calm down.



You are repeating events in the story that no one was disputing to begin with. 

Yes we know what happened in the story, what people find all fucked up about it is how Kishi tries to portray it all as a positive, and a faithful expression of his intended themes. I'm just saying try to think for a second about how twisted your reasoning here is.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I don't think we have much to worry about SasuSaku anymore. Sasuke is no longer on the path that turned him into the near crazed monster he was before. And we saw his internal monologue of why he did everything. Plus everything shows that after Sasuke was redeemed, he and Sakura got a very loving relationship.


He's talking about the same people that would ship the pairing before it became canon, that wouldn't get offended by the blatant SasuSaku negativity, and before any promising of a loving relationship.

Sakura will have nightmares.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> through an asspull yes, congratulation.  Naruto wasnt shown to love hinata for 699 chapters despite all their moments, so i cant be anything else other than an asspul.  Narutoxfoddergirl would make as much sense.


Throughout the series we saw Naruto's affection growing for Hinata. Literally each and every major moment was a relationship upgrade between them, from strangers, to friends, to good friends, to possible love interests. Now Kishimoto is doing it justice by giving their relationship a full canon movie to explore since, from his own words, he sucks at romance, thus giving it to people who know how to pull it off right.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I don't think we have much to worry about SasuSaku anymore. Sasuke is no longer on the path that turned him into the near crazed monster he was before. And we saw his internal monologue of why he did everything. Plus everything shows that after Sasuke was redeemed, he and Sakura got a very loving relationship.





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since it explains why, clear as day, what he did what he did (at least in regards to Team 7). Why he kept pushing everyone away. Now that that is solved, and that he's actively working to redeem himself, and he's returned Sakura's feelings, isn't abusing her, neglecting her, or treating her badly at all, what is the problem?
> 
> I was just adding my two cents dude, calm down.



Someone who gets it.

Take my rep

And lol @Seto lashing out at any who shows a hint of defending SS.
The asshurt these pairings have caused will be remembered for years to come.


----------



## Tangle (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Let me guess, IchiRuki fan?



ichiruki is an awesome ship ch1p


----------



## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Throughout the series we saw Naruto's affection growing for Hinata. Literally each and every major moment was a relationship upgrade between them, from strangers, to friends, to good friends, to possible love interests. Now Kishimoto is doing it justice by giving their relationship a full canon movie to explore since, from his own words, he sucks at romance, thus giving it to people who know how to pull it off right.



The execution was poor. Hinata confessed her feelings to Naruto in a very dramatic way and he never even acknowledged that it happened. And now it looks like even the movie may pretend that it never happened, too.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> Someone who gets it.
> 
> Take my rep
> 
> ...


Do you really think you can get away with all of this?


----------



## Romanticide (Nov 20, 2014)

That translation's actually wrong, here's a truer one: *http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/689/13*


----------



## kataimiko (Nov 20, 2014)

nightmistress said:


> Here you can borrow mine
> 
> 
> It's a reality even without them sooo...



I HAVE SOME TOO!!


----------



## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

I really hate how so many NaruHina and SasuSakur fans are trying to deflect people moral outrage by just calling them irate about the pairings. I mean do people really not understand how fucked up the message of the SS pairing is, it's literally so fucked up that everyone should be agreeing that it's fucked up and it's actually mind baffling that so many are trying to undercut this.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> The execution was poor. Hinata confessed her feelings to Naruto in a very dramatic way and he never even acknowledged that it happened. And now it looks like even the movie may pretend that it never happened, too.


He did acknowledge it happened. 491 (When he was setting out for Jinchuriki training) and 558. And given how it is a SHONEN, where these types of relationships are barely explored, I'm not seeing how it is 'poor'. And people have been misinterpreting things.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Let me guess, IchiRuki fan?



I have to inquire about this one. How did you infer that?


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> Do you really think you can get away with all of this?



Get away with what? Rustling jimmies? It's not my fault people are salty.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I really hate how so many NaruHina and SasuSakur fans are trying to deflect people moral outrage by just calling them irate about the pairings. I mean do people really not understand how fucked up the message of the SS pairing is, it's literally so fucked up that everyone should be agreeing that it's fucked up and it's actually mind baffling that so many are trying to undercut this.


Again, as I said before: if Sasuke isn't abusing Sakura, neglecting her, and the two having a _truly loving relationship_-what is the problem?! He fucked up, he admitted he fucked up, now he's working on making this better. I don't like Sasuke Sakura either, but at least goddamn understand Kishimoto was trying to go for a 'love redeems' thing between them!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I really hate how so many NaruHina and SasuSakur fans are trying to deflect people moral outrage by just calling them irate about the pairings. I mean do people really not understand how fucked up the message of the SS pairing is, it's literally so fucked up that everyone should be agreeing that it's fucked up and it's actually mind baffling that so many are trying to undercut this.



Plenty of NaruHina fans have acknowledged this about SasuSaku, it's not really fair to lump them in like that. It's those supporters of SasuSaku trying to flame the shit out of people voicing criticism. Simply due to the fact that such criticism is far too difficult to logically address and even moreso, refute.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Again, as I said before: if Sasuke isn't abusing Sakura, neglecting her, and the two having a _truly loving relationship_-what is the problem?! He fucked up, he admitted he fucked up, now he's working on making this better. I don't like Sasuke Sakura either, but at least goddamn understand Kishimoto was trying to go for a 'love redeems' thing between them!



Just stop.

You're not even grasping the basics of what people are disputing here. I just told you we know what the story has, and we know what Kishimoto's intentions are. What's criticized is the execution of it all, and his idea that it was positive and a good representation of his intended themes.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm still amazed that Kishimoto set up the Kushina thing as a troll.


Bravo.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> I'm not attacking her. I hope she does another alcoholic Naruto fanart, because I found it hillarious (and even reblogged it). What I'm saying is that her moral outrage is not valid. You don't clutch your pearls while committing a crime unless you're schizophrenic. Same goes for anyone mocking or insinuating such things.



Not you specifically, in general.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

There's some other funny shit coming up.



Inuhanyou said:


> Not you specifically, in general.



I see.


----------



## kataimiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I really hate how so many NaruHina and SasuSakur fans are trying to deflect people moral outrage by just calling them irate about the pairings. I mean do people really not understand how fucked up the message of the SS pairing is, it's literally so fucked up that everyone should be agreeing that it's fucked up and it's actually mind baffling that so many are trying to undercut this.



how is it any more fucked up than Naruto forgiving Sasuke? How about Naruto forgiving Gaara? Or Hinata forgiving Neji? Hell, even Obito forgiving Kakashi and vice versa? Do you see a pattern here? This series is based off of the common theme of REDEMPTION and FORGIVENESS. This is not real life, this is a world wrought with war and turmoil, where kids are running around killing other kids. 

Just because Sakura always held romantic feelings for Sasuke, does not make her a bad person or any different than Naruto who loved Sasuke like a brother. People seem to be getting butthurt over this, because "oh noes! The evil sauce-kay got the lead girl!!1" Like, people are taking it as a personal insult to their fedora wearing "nice guy" metals.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Let me guess, IchiRuki fan?



I've owned the IchiRuki fanclub since i joined this place, so yes 

Their relationship is probably one of my favorites of all time, i like their slow mutual development as characters individually and together, that's the kind of relationship i usually go for when i read fiction.


----------



## Kait0 (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> The execution was poor. Hinata confessed her feelings to Naruto in a very dramatic way and he never even acknowledged that it happened. And now it looks like even the movie may pretend that it never happened, too.


I get the feeling Kishimoto looked back at it after the chapter was released and realized that involving romance was a bad idea and would alter the direction he wanted to take with the series too much and change Naruto's character too much away from the real focus of the series.  I'm not Kishimoto, so there's a really good chance I'm interpreting it incorrectly, but the fact that he waited until after the main conflict between Naruto and Sasuke was over to solve the problem of character feelings tells me he regrets the decision to have Hinata confess to Naruto in such a serious situation.  I'll admit that the execution was poor, but at least it's happening in some context and not just _completely_ thrown out.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Just stop.
> 
> You're not even grasping the basics of what people are disputing here. I just told you we know what the story has, and we know what Kishimoto's intentions are. What's criticized is the execution of it all, and his idea that it was positive and a good representation of his intended themes.


Fair enough. Execution could have been done better. Most of the problems with the ending could have been ironed out if Kishimoto had more time to do so, I believe.


----------



## kataimiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Kait0 said:


> I get the feeling Kishimoto looked back at it after the chapter was released and realized that involving romance was a bad idea and would alter the direction he wanted to take with the series too much and change Naruto's character too much away from the real focus of the series.  I'm not Kishimoto, so there's a really good chance I'm interpreting it incorrectly, but the fact that he waited until after the main conflict between Naruto and Sasuke was over to solve the problem of character feelings tells me he regrets the decision to have Hinata confess to Naruto in such a serious situation.  I'll admit that the execution was poor, but at least it's happening in some context and not just _completely_ thrown out.



he also openly stated that he was uncomfortable with writing romance. I mean, look at Kushina and Minato, their depicted relationship was vanilla as hell.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

kataimiko said:


> how is it any more fucked up than Naruto forgiving Sasuke? How about Naruto forgiving Gaara? Or Hinata forgiving Neji? Hell, even Obito forgiving Kakashi and vice versa? Do you see a pattern here? This series is based off of the common theme of REDEMPTION and FORGIVENESS. This is not real life, this is a world wrought with war and turmoil, where kids are running around killing other kids.
> 
> Just because Sakura always held romantic feelings for Sasuke, does not make her a bad person or any different than Naruto who loved Sasuke like a brother. People seem to be getting butthurt over this, because "oh noes! The evil sauce-kay got the lead girl!!1" Like, people are taking it as a personal insult to their fedora wearing "nice guy" metals.



Naruto is just as bad when trying to get Sasuke back considering Sasuke's caused all sorts of emotional problems for Naruto to the point that he hyperventilated.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Tenrol said:


> through an asspull yes, congratulation.  Naruto wasnt shown to love hinata for 699 chapters despite all their moments, so it cant be anything else other than an asspul.



Thank you for the congratulations. I'm sad that I can't the same towards your pairing of choice...



> Narutoxfoddergirl would make as much sense.



How, when foddergirl never showed love for Naruto, like Hinata showed love for Naruto?



Tangle said:


> ichiruki is an awesome ship ch1p



It's not gonna happen tho.



Elicit94 said:


> Do you really think you can get away with all of this?



And what are you going to do? 



Hollow'd Heart said:


> That translation's actually wrong, here's a truer one: *http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/689/13*



That's a NaruSaku fan translating and so was the other one posted on page 17. OP has the correct translation.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

kataimiko said:


> how is it any more fucked up than Naruto forgiving Sasuke? How about Naruto forgiving Gaara? Or Hinata forgiving Neji? Hell, even Obito forgiving Kakashi and vice versa? Do you see a pattern here? This series is based off of the common theme of REDEMPTION and FORGIVENESS. This is not real life, this is a world wrought with war and turmoil, where kids are running around killing other kids.
> 
> Just because Sakura always held romantic feelings for Sasuke, does not make her a bad person or any different than Naruto who loved Sasuke like a brother. People seem to be getting butthurt over this, because "oh noes! The evil sauce-kay got the lead girl!!1" Like, people are taking it as a personal insult to their fedora wearing "nice guy" metals.



Wow. You guys have no original thought among yourselves. 

Yes those are fucked up, but that's kind of the point. Kishi is trying to convey real-life values to the reader. Yet, particularly through the focus on Sasuke, has twisted them so much that people recognize it to be sure, as something he never intended I would assume. So to state it's fiction is to defeat your entire attempt to refute people's criticisms. Not only that, it is to refute your entire basis of reasoning on why for example, you'd support a relationship in the story beyond superficial matters.

Their world is a lot more simple and far less brutal than our own. Brutality does not invalidate the concepts of morality held. Particularly considering they are not an amoral society, and if they were it would be impossible to connect particular concepts and themes to the reader. For example, it would be impossible for a shipper to endear themselves to a relationship expressed in the story if the characteristics could not be identified by how they exist. In contrast, it is that criteria in which people find disgust at SasuSaku.

It does make them pathetic and lacking in dignity however. Kishimoto, in his twisted rationale thinks such a level of devotion is a positive, without taking into account that other concepts are always in balance with such virtues. That when are not considered, put the virtue at risk into twisting into a vice. Such as Naruto and Sakura's obsession with Sasuke is. You're desperately running to simple-minded dichomoties only making the point I expressed to Turrin before. That actually acknowledging what people have said is far too difficult a thing.


----------



## Zef (Nov 20, 2014)

If Sasuke was female, and SS happened I guarantee people wouldn't call it abusive.  Just Sayin


----------



## Kait0 (Nov 20, 2014)

kataimiko said:


> He also openly stated that he was uncomfortable with writing romance. I mean, look at Kushina and Minato, their depicted relationship was vanilla as hell.


So lets look at this positively; it could have escalated from the train wreck that it was to the Armageddon it could have been. 

All in all I'm fairly satisfied with how the series progressed and ended. It wasn't perfect, but it did leave you with a sense of imagining.


----------



## Jagger (Nov 20, 2014)

Sasuke was an asshole and an international criminal.

Even Kakashi had to use his influence to keep Sasuke away from execution. Let's not deny that.

Edit: Also, I don't believe NH is a bad pairing. Just that it was badly written. Like the other pairings because Kishimoto is barely average when it comes to romance.


----------



## kataimiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Wow. You guys have no original thought among yourselves.
> 
> Yes those are fucked up, but that's kind of the point. Kishi is trying to convey real-life values to the reader. So to state it's fiction is to defeat your entire attempt to refute people's criticisms. Furthermore, their world is a lot more simple and far less brutal than our own. Brutality does not invalidate the concepts held. Particularly considering they are not an amoral society, and if they were it would be impossible to connect particular concepts and themes to the reader. For example, it would be impossible for a shipper to endear themselves to a relationship expressed in the story if the characteristics could not be identified by how they exist. In contrast, it is that criteria in which people find disgust at SasuSaku.
> 
> It does make them pathetic and lacking in dignity however. Kishimoto, in his twisted rationale thinks such a level of devotion is a positive, without taking into account that other concepts are always in balance with such virtues. That when are not considered, put the virtue at risk into twisting into a vice. Such as Naruto and Sakura's obsession with Sasuke is. You're desperately running to simple-minded dichomoties only making the point I expressed to Turrin before. That actually acknowledging what people have said is far too difficult a thing.


----------



## Suigetsu (Nov 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> We can't have a movie about love if the resolution is in the manga. Let's use our hear a bit, shall we ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First fanfic I wrote was a Jurassic Park one, and that was the screenplay for a short movie I did with my toys and my sister's vhs camera. Ever since, the stuff that I write, I dont see it as fan fiction but as something that can be turned into a creative project. 

However I am very reluctant when it comes to posting that stuff in the internet.
I think Fanart can be flattering for the author, because you as an author gave inspiration to create something based on your work.
Needless to say, I draw and paint a lot and write too.

So, have you seen the new translation?


----------



## kataimiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> If Sasuke was female, and SS happened I guarantee people wouldn't call it abusive.  Just Sayin



agreed 100%.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 20, 2014)

Why is anyone insulting ladygt? She rewrote the ending because she wanted to and she can. There is nothing wrong with that.  She is talented, much more talented than 90% of you. Keep her name out your mouths.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Your concession is accepted.


----------



## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

According to some movie rumors...

Naruto started to develop feelings for Hinata after she confessed but wasn't able to "comprehend" love (why he never reached it for 2 years) and he didn't want to have a relationship with Hinata because that love might "substitute" the love of Kushina.

I will wait and see what happens in the movie. That seems plausible to me.

And people will have a much better deal understanding SasuSaku if people actually follow the theme of redemption and forgiveness in the manga.

Also I would not be surprised to the theory that Sasuke "always liked/loved Sakura" because again according to movie rumors Sasuke left Sakura because he cared for her too much so he had to save her from himself. So she wouldn't get wrapped up in the revenge storyline.
(The thread did introduce some plausible evidence)

BUT ultimately, its useless jumping to conclusions on if it makes sense or not when an entire movie to explain it about to release. The wise thing to do is wait and see the storyline play out in the "The Last"


----------



## Tangle (Nov 20, 2014)

where are all them rumours coming from?



ch1p said:


> It's not gonna happen tho.



i knowww


----------



## Jagger (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Why is anyone insulting ladygt? She rewrote the ending because she wanted to and she can. There is nothing wrong with that.  She is talented, much more talented than 90% of you. Keep her name out your mouths.


She wrote an ending that isn't even canon.

Amazing.


----------



## kataimiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Your concession is accepted.



lol, I'm not even conceding. I am just dumbfounded at your logic and lack there of. You are trying to throw real life psychoanalysis at this when in reality, this is a fucking shonen manga. I mean, holy shit.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Normality said:


> Why is anyone insulting ladygt? She rewrote the ending because she wanted to and she can. There is nothing wrong with that.  She is talented, much more talented than 90% of you. Keep her name out your mouths.


I think it was more of her reaction to events than her wanting to do NaruSaku artwork, Normality. She's free to do the rewrite, but she isn't free to be disrespectful and such.


----------



## Romanticide (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> That's a NaruSaku fan translating and so was the other one posted on page 17. OP has the correct translation.



No, on the blog it's stated the translator is fluent in japanese and not even a shipper or biased.


----------



## Tenrol (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Thank you for the congratulations. I'm sad that I can't the same towards your pairing of choice...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I did say that Hinata was the most convenient girl for Kishi to asspull Naruto ending with someone so he can have a kid.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

kataimiko said:


> lol, I'm not even conceding. I am just dumbfounded at your logic and lack there of. You are trying to throw real life psychoanalysis at this when in reality, this is a fucking shonen manga. I mean, holy shit.



This only illustrates that you didn't read my response at all. Or that if you did, predictably enough...as I stated to Turrin such things are too difficult for you guys to address. Because it forces you to acknowledge things that you'd rather remain ignorant to. Or play at ignorance to.

So again, I accept your concession.


----------



## Mizura (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> If Sasuke was female, and SS happened I guarantee people wouldn't call it abusive.  Just Sayin


... excuse me? If Sasugirl tried to kill Sakuguy several times while repeatedly putting him down, I'd tell Sakuguy to dump that crazy bitch because there are plenty of other fish in the sea. 

Unless you meant Both Sakura and Sasuke were females. But still, nah.

By the way, I always thought NH was possible. I think it probably went along these lines:
- Kishimoto said that when he created Sasuke and Sakura, his editors had told him to make a love triangle. So, it Was intended to be a triangle.
- But I wouldn't have trouble believing that even back in Part I, Kishimoto intended for Naruto to eventually end up with Hinata, who always supported him from afar.
- Somewhere along the lines, he did consider Sakura wavering in favor of Naruto, and his work may have reflected that.
- But then he decided 'nah' and left it at that. And then he mostly forgot about the pairings stuff. When he did add pairing stuff, it's like someone had to remind him.
- And then the series ended.

Throughout the series, his mind was probably 90% SasuNaru. Other relationships were an afterthought, and I'm not just talking about the romantic ones. :\


----------



## Haruka Katana (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> According to some movie rumors...
> 
> Naruto started to develop feelings for Hinata after she confessed but wasn't able to "comprehend" love (why he never reached it for 2 years) and he didn't want to have a relationship with Hinata because that love might "substitute" the love of Kushina.
> 
> ...


Them rumors, there's just too many of them


----------



## LesExit (Nov 20, 2014)

kataimiko said:


> how is it any more fucked up than Naruto forgiving Sasuke? How about Naruto forgiving Gaara? Or Hinata forgiving Neji? Hell, even Obito forgiving Kakashi and vice versa?


Ya the theme of redemption and forgiveness has been going on in this manga forever and it's been pretty over dramatic and what not. The extreme hate towards the SS forgiveness thing is probably just because it involves romance, which just tends to easily rustle peoples feather.

You've brought up sad memories though. When Neji struck Hinata's heart and then tried to kill her I was so upset . Then I actually hated him for awhile for trying to kill my favorite character :3 
but Neji became a pretty cool guy. Would like to see Naruto and Hinata talk more to their kids about him. Also wonder about the state of the Hyuga now...


----------



## MasterSitsu (Nov 20, 2014)

Eh maybe the editors forced kishi to have a typical tsunderer as lead girl and he dident know what to do with her as he wanted Hinata to be the main girl. I guess SS was just a after thought after NH and if thats the case maybe kishi was told to give her closure so maybe its not a moral issue on his part.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Nov 20, 2014)

Itachі said:


> I think that Kishi trolled every pairing, they all lack development.



HashiMada doesn't.


----------



## Hitt (Nov 20, 2014)

One thing is for damn sure, Kishi talks, and fires start.  This thread is a perfect example of that.

Another certainty is, regardless of when he planned what, NS was a consideration.  How serious?  Who knows.  When did he drop this consideration?  Who knows but the end of the Pain arc seems like a good guess.

The story seems to reflect that, as almost all positive implications of NS (except for the parallels which went fucking nowhere) were dropped around that time, and Kishi teased NH more.

The final thing this latest Kishi brouhaha DID confirm is that the narrative some rabid fans seem to be claiming, that is, NS was always a crack ship and kishi never even _thought_ of it occurring, are now debunked.  

It also continues to reinforce the idea that kishi is a hack writer of the lowest caliber.  If all of this is planned, why was it developed SO terribly?  Why was NH never reciprocated, or even TOUCHED upon by Naruto?  Why was Sasuke treating Sakura utterly harshly until the very end, even trying to kill her?

All of this is put on top of the fact Kishi completely fucked the story in the final 3rd of the manga as well, with disjointed themes and a villain so shitty she made Majin Buu look like a work of fucking genius.

The best part?  Kishi is probably not done talking.   What other crazy shit is he going to say further enlightening us to what kind of fucked up mindset he really has as a writer?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Tangle said:


> i knowww



Regardless of what happens, its not something to cry about.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Sasuke was an asshole and an international criminal.
> 
> Even Kakashi had to use his influence to keep Sasuke away from execution. Let's not deny that.
> 
> Edit: Also, I don't believe NH is a bad pairing. Just that it was badly written. Like the other pairings because Kishimoto is barely average when it comes to romance.



The end scene of kakashi talking about the the weight of Sasuke's crimes and Sakura...acting like herself was jarring for that reason.  You put it together and its like the samurai that Sasuke slained means nothing to Sakura.

Essentially its the dilemma showed at the beginning of the Kage Summit arc that was never elaborated on.  Just conveniently forgotten.


----------



## Jagger (Nov 20, 2014)

Why everytime someone points out a flaw, some fans just go and type the typical "YER BUTTHURT, M8"? It makes you look childish and incapable of holding up a reasonable argument. I mean, if it is a logical one, then, yes it should be accepted. 

In my personal case, I did not prefer any pairing because I wasn't involved into the romantical aspect of the manga (I used to be one of those childs that disliked romance because it was too 'girly'), but more the central plot and the characters (protagonists, villains, etc.). However, let us not deny how poorly written the pairings are to the point Kishimoto had to include nonsensical pairings just for the sake of showing us a "new generation of children". InoxSai only had one moment because the author neglected their character development so hard it's not even funny (Well, more Sai than Ino). Yet, they ended up together.

If you liked them, good for you. From an objective point of view, they were all poorly designed even if they were obvious from the start. Let's take a couple of views at certain things (and don't give me the retarded excuse this is a Shounen, therefore, it's okay for them to be badly written). 

Sakura and Sasuke barely had any kind of interaction (after Part I, mostly) that didn't involve Sasuke being a complete bastard, in the metaphorical sense of the word, towards her. Or Hinata's character solely being based around Naruto, Naruto and Naruto while the latter just kind of ignored her and showed a more intimate interaction with Sakura.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Naruto is just as bad when trying to get Sasuke back considering Sasuke's caused all sorts of emotional problems for Naruto to the point that he hyperventilated.



Where's the 30 page thread complaining about this? _Oh, there is none to begin with._



AeroNin said:


> According to some movie rumors...
> 
> Naruto started to develop feelings for Hinata after she confessed but wasn't able to "comprehend" love (why he never reached it for 2 years) and he didn't want to have a relationship with Hinata because that love might "substitute" the love of Kushina.



Naruto is dumb, so this may be legitimate. Weird that he'd be afraid to substitute Kushina though, that's random, and she's dead anyway.



> Also I would not be surprised to the theory that Sasuke "always liked/loved Sakura" because again according to movie rumors Sasuke left Sakura because he cared for her too much so he had to save her from himself. So she wouldn't get wrapped up in the revenge storyline.
> (The thread did introduce some plausible evidence)



Well, this is another Itachi > Sasuke parallel, so it would fit. Even so, this sounds awfully like that spoiler with Ino almost getting raped. NOT SURE IF WANT.



Tangle said:


> where are all them rumours coming from?
> 
> 
> 
> i knowww



There, there.


----------



## kataimiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This only illustrates that you didn't read my response at all. Or that if you did, predictably enough...as I stated to Turrin such things are too difficult for you guys to address. Because it forces you to acknowledge things that you'd rather remain ignorant to. Or play at ignorance to.
> 
> So again, I accept your concession.



i feel like we are rustling your jimmies.


----------



## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

Zef said:


> If Sasuke was female, and SS happened I guarantee people wouldn't call it abusive.  Just Sayin



Of course we would. In fact, we'd all be rooting for Sakura and Ino to get over that crazy bitch Sasuko and hook up with each other instead.


----------



## Narcissus (Nov 20, 2014)

There seems to be some mass delusion among shippers in general. Naruto/Sakura would've been terrible just like Naruto/Hinata and Sasuke/Sakura are.

*NONE* of those ships have good foundation, and are filled with negative themes and messages. SS is by far the worse, but Kishimoto did an awful job handling all of them.


----------



## Kait0 (Nov 20, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Edit: Also, I don't believe NH is a bad pairing. Just that it was badly written. Like the other pairings because Kishimoto is barely average when it comes to romance.


Good thing it was never advertised as a romance manga!  I followed the series without even knowing about the whole pairing circle jerk, so I wasn't phased by the ending, however I can say I prefer what I've seen to what I could have seen.  I enjoyed the series for what it was, not what it wasn't going to be.

Whose to say what Kishimoto's ambitions were when he decided to create a romantic scenario between characters.  He could have wanted to expand on the limits of his creativity by trying something different.  I will admit, though, having Hinata confess to Naruto, then throw it out for 200 chapters made me wonder if he regretted the decision to put it in in the first place.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Hitt said:


> It also continues to reinforce the idea that kishi is a hack writer of the lowest caliber.  If all of this is planned, why was it developed SO terribly?  Why was NH never reciprocated, or even TOUCHED upon by Naruto?  Why was Sasuke treating Sakura utterly harshly until the very end, even trying to kill her?


...Naruto did touch upon the confession twice over, Hitt. And its one of the major themes of the canon movie.


----------



## Rios (Nov 20, 2014)

Since we've established that both Naruto and Sakura are dumb the question now is: how dumb are they really?


----------



## Choco (Nov 20, 2014)

kataimiko said:


> i feel like we are rustling your jimmies.



Just let him win. He lives for this


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Hitt said:


> It also continues to reinforce the idea that kishi is a hack writer of the lowest caliber.  If all of this is planned, why was it developed SO terribly?  Why was NH never reciprocated, or even TOUCHED upon by Naruto?



NH was designed more on last minute SURPRISE than something that was gradual throughout the story.  Essentially that's what made Hinata's confession what it was.  The reader is supposed to act shocked when Hinata goes from a hiding coward to defending Naruto from the Akatsuki leader.  Both in action and feelings.

If they were actually fostering a relationship before this, the jump Hinata makes isn't as shocking.


----------



## Tangle (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Well, this is another Itachi > Sasuke parallel, so it would fit. Even so, this sounds awfully like that spoiler with Ino almost getting raped. NOT SURE IF WANT.



I read that Karin, Jugo and Oro die along with the Ino almost get raped spoiler


----------



## LesExit (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Naruto is dumb, so this may be legitimate. Weird that he'd be afraid to substitute Kushina though, that's random, and she's dead anyway.


I don't get the substitute Kushina thing...
that's his mom....

Maybe he thought Hinata's love was motherly  
lol this plot sounds so weird


----------



## Hitt (Nov 20, 2014)

As has been stated countless times before, pushing the development to a movie is a huge cop out.  Further, this movie starts TWO YEARS from the end at 699.  Which means NOTHING HAPPENS for two years between the two once again.  Fucking terrible.  I mean Kishi had plenty of opportunities to try to develop NH properly, but he never did.  Pushing to a movie is not an acceptable excuse for failing to develop this shit in his own manga for a full 15 years.

Instead, Kishi gives hints to stoke more pairing fires, continues to tease NS along with the others, and only at the very freaking end jams the true pairings together.  That is NOT good development.  Hell, that's not even development, period.


----------



## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...Naruto did touch upon the confession twice over, Hitt. And its one of the major themes of the canon movie.



He never did! Naruto did refer to Hinata saving him and getting stabbed a few times, once to Hinata himself, but he never acknowledged or remembered that she said she loved him.

If Hinata hadn't said "I love you" out loud, it would have had zero effect on the rest of the manga.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

^ I remember Naruto flashing back to 437 during the time his clone saved Hinata's team. Only in reference to her being strong for attacking Pein though, nothing about the confession :/



Zef said:


> If Sasuke was female, and SS happened I guarantee people wouldn't call it abusive.  Just Sayin



Uh..you mean if Sakura's gender was flipped as well? Yeah i would be still calling it dysfunctional and abusing. But because its against a woman, i call it sexist as well, cause that's all she is. 

If it was a man in Naruto's story, i doubt Sakura would be AS empty as she was in the story. He would have not been crying and acting like a useless lump most of the time Sasuke was around for starters. But also he probably would have also been holding his own weight.

Its just that dysfunctional thing kishi has for women, thinking they can only feel with their ovaries


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Where's the 30 page thread complaining about this? _Oh, there is none to begin with._



I actually made a thread about it during one of the chapters when they were fighting of how Naruto was acting like a victim towards Sasuke. Some agreed, some didn't. Either way, doesn't need to reach 30 pages to see that it's true, or was true. He took an ass whooping from Karui just so he wouldn't rat Sasuke out and then proceeded to hyperventilate during the Summit. Both Naruto and Sakura never learned to let go.


----------



## Choco (Nov 20, 2014)

Tangle said:


> I read that Karin, Jugo and Oro die along with the Ino almost get raped spoiler



Good thing that was fake.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> No, on the blog it's stated the translator is fluent in japanese and not even a shipper or biased.



You say that, but giving a view on that blog, and it's a NaruSaku fan.



Tenrol said:


> Well I did say that Hinata was the most convenient girl for Kishi to asspull Naruto ending with someone so he can have a kid.



Think carefully. Why is Hinata most convenient?



PikaCheeka said:


> HashiMada doesn't.



I kind of feel like HashiMada was a fluke tho'. So I hope he never speaks about it. Ever.



Pocalypse said:


> I actually made a thread about it during one of the chapters when they were fighting of how Naruto was acting like a victim towards Sasuke. Some agreed, some didn't. Either way, doesn't need to reach 30 pages to see that it's true, or was true. He took an ass whooping from Karui just so he wouldn't rat Sasuke out and then proceeded to hyperventilate during the Summit. Both Naruto and Sakura never learned to let go.



I'm going to be 100% genuine about this. There are plenty of relationships that tiptoe around the bush regarding this matter.

I accept Kakashi and Sasuke, Sasuke and Sakura, Itachi and Sasuke, Hashirama and Madara, all have legitimate relationships because they drew a line at some point. One of them said 'it's enough'. It doesn't matter if they didn't manage to break bonds or that they didn't go through with this or any other technicality, the fact that they drew that line was important. They're real, as far as this manga goes. 

I can't say the same for Sasuke and Naruto, so I feel like Kishi fumbled the ball. I understand what he wanted to do (and this new interview where he says their relationship is like his with his twin brother), but tbh he ruined them by doing that. Like Kishi himself admitted on another interview, they act like two lunatics, and that's what makes it unlikable for me. They're fake.

The point is though, there's a 30 page complaining about pairings, in a sea of threads complaining about pairings. I don't see a single one bashing Naruto and Sasuke in the library's front page. When they are guilty of so much more bulshit in every front. It's both more "abusive" (whatever that means) and unbelievable.

So no, I'm sorry. I don't really believe that the grand majority of people complaining here have legitimate concerns. They have butthurt or personal vendettas pushing them instead.


----------



## kataimiko (Nov 20, 2014)

Choco said:


> Just let him win. He lives for this



but I have enough gifs to last me all night!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

This dishonesty is quite a sight. You guys are seriously trying to pretend no one has ever said anything against Naruto and Sasuke's relationship, ever. Or how messed up it is. When that has been one of the more vocal criticisms against Naruto's character, even by some SasuSaku fans, hypocritically enough...

It's not psychoanalysis to know that simply put:

-Kishimoto desired his story to be a story that expressed themes of virtue and morality.

-That it is our recognition of human concepts like emotions, personality, virtues and morals, and nature of relationships and their developments, as they exist in real-life that we are able to identify them in the story. This is how the author connects these matters to the reader.

-In other words, these matters are tethered to reality, because it is reality from which they are pulled from as reference and it is reality that they can only be identified. 

So people naturally in seeing a matter like say not even just a pairing, but Shikamaru and Chouji's friendship. Readers are able to connect on some level emotionally to such a portrayal, or at the very least, recognize it as fitting the traits of what would be a good friendship. Because the characteristics and developments expressed within fall in line with such a concept of what makes a good friendship. 

In contrast, it is why people blast the friendship that exists between Naruto and Sasuke. Because it completely goes against any concept of a healthy friendship, or healthy relationship of any platonic and/or romantic nature. So in turn, this is not received as well. With that, the themes and virtues it attempts to express become twisted because of that.


----------



## Tangle (Nov 20, 2014)

Choco said:


> Good thing that was fake.



really? thaaank god


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Choco said:


> Just let him win. He lives for this



Oh boy Seto, I think you've literally pushed the crazies so far off the edge that they actually think that they're letting someone "win" by letting basic human morality prevail.


----------



## Romanticide (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> You say that, but giving a view on that blog, and it's a NaruSaku fan.



The person who translated it in not the same person on the blog.


----------



## Jυstin (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> Oh boy Seto, I think you've literally pushed the crazies so far off the edge that they actually think that they're letting someone "win" by letting basic human morality prevail.



I do this with you all the time.

I knew you never appreciated


----------



## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

Alright so I can admit when I'm wrong. I just read the raw text, and after reading it I think the translators done fucked up when translating it. So here's what I get out of the text:

" From fairly earlier we agreed on hinata.  For Sakura to waver at the final stage, and change her mind to Naruto, she'd be too heartless of a female (laughs). Since I thought Sakura was whole heartedly for Sasuke."

So it's not that Sakura would be a despicable female if she gave up on Sasuke, but rather she'd be horrible if she went with Naruto, when she really loved Sasuke. It seems like Kishi never saw her character as being in love with anyone other than Sasuke, while Naruto was actually in love with Sakura, so if she went with him it would be cruel to Naruto, because he actually loved her, but she didn't love him (that way). 

So what Kishi is saying isn't as disconnected from reality as I thought, and that leaves me having put a foot in my mouth, but just goes to show reading online trans is never a supplement for reading the actual Japanese.

However what I will say is that how early the decided on Hinata seems a bit lesser than what the online translations indicate as well, granted it still seems like they decided on Hinata earlier than I would have expected as well.

With that said, and with me admitting I was wrong about a few things and that Kishi isn't quite as big of a nut case as I thought based on the online trans out of the way, I still take issues with the information revealed in this interview, because to me it's like if Kishi never thought that Sakura would ever waver from Sasuke and he planned NaruHina fairly early on (I'm assuming that means some time in P1 or at the last early PII), than it's still like WTF Kishi in the case of both pairings. In the case of SS it's like if you knew those two were going to end up together since the start, than why have Sasuke try and kill her so many times making that relationship so deplorable and if it was going to be NaruHina than why not give Hinata more screen time and build her up as more influential character, and expand further on that relationship (rather than leave Naruto in love with Sakura throughout the entirety of the story). I could go on, but there is no need; in the end it just furthers my belief that Kishi really did not care about the pairings all that much.

Edit: And I still find Sasuke/Sakura morally deplorable, I just now think Kishi didn't care to think it through enough rather than him proactively advocating poor moral values.


----------



## Kait0 (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> He never did! Naruto did refer to Hinata saving him and getting stabbed a few times, once to Hinata himself, but he never acknowledged or remembered that she said she loved him.
> 
> If Hinata hadn't said "I love you" out loud, it would have had zero effect on the rest of the manga.


I think this has been my biggest bug throughout the entire series.  She confessed, out loud.  Okay, it was bound to happen sooner or later.  Next arc begins, never happened.  I mean, only Naruto and Hinata knew that Hinata said it, and they're both emotionally challenged, but it's still a bug.


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Jυstin said:


> I do this with you all the time.
> 
> I knew you never appreciated



Shut your crying and I'll tingle your sphincter for free later.


----------



## Jυstin (Nov 20, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> Shut your crying and I'll tingle your sphincter for free later.



I'm not crying!

Someone's been putting tears on my pillow!


----------



## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> "From fairly earlier we agreed on hinata.  For Sakura to waver at the final stage, and change her mind to Naruto, she'd be too heartless of a female (laughs). Since I thought Sakura was whole heartedly for Sasuke."
> 
> So it's not that Sakura would be a despicable female if she gave up on Sasuke, but rather she'd be horrible if she went with Naruto, when she really loved Sasuke. It seems like Kishi never saw her character as being in love with anyone other than Sasuke, while Naruto was actually in love with Sakura,



You're completely just assuming that's the reason she'd be considered "heartless" because you can pull things out of your ass?

He clearly explained that the reason she'd be heartless is because he imagined that she was always in love with Sasuke. Thus, she'd be fickle if she suddenly switched.

This isn't even NEW information, this is the kind of thing Kishi already intimated to the reader in the failfession. That is the only potentiality he sees for NaruSaku, exactly the kind of convenient and shallow lie that Sakura was making up.

Naruto never loved Sakura. End of story. (Literally.) The proof is in the fact that he decided on Hinata a long time ago. Thus he made sure to never actually commit his main character to wanting to be with some other girl before he fell in love with Hinata. It was a crush, a pale "love", and it was comic relief.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> He never did! Naruto did refer to Hinata saving him and getting stabbed a few times, once to Hinata himself, but he never acknowledged or remembered that she said she loved him.
> 
> If Hinata hadn't said "I love you" out loud, it would have had zero effect on the rest of the manga.


He did. He referenced her and said they could recognize each other by the look in their eyes. For a shonen, that's a big thing since most would just brush it off. Seriously, you want this to be a Shojo?


----------



## MasterSitsu (Nov 20, 2014)

Hitt said:


> Instead, Kishi gives hints to stoke more pairing fires, continues to tease NS along with the others, and only at the very freaking end jams the true pairings together.  That is NOT good development.  Hell, that's not even development, period.


He had Naruto Hinata planned from the very beginning it was only on his NS fans part for pumping expectation into growth as teammates honestly there on there same team its natural she would be seen more then hinata not to mention sakura is only in the story because his editors wanted a tsunderer....... Really hitt for people complaining about NH being underdone why not check out dragonballz to what set the standard for naruto


----------



## Jagger (Nov 20, 2014)

Kait0 said:


> Good thing it was never advertised as a romance manga!  I followed the series without even knowing about the whole pairing circle jerk, so I wasn't phased by the ending, however I can say I prefer what I've seen to what I could have seen.  I enjoyed the series for what it was, not what it wasn't going to be.
> 
> Whose to say what Kishimoto's ambitions were when he decided to create a romantic scenario between characters.  He could have wanted to expand on the limits of his creativity by trying something different.  I will admit, though, having Hinata confess to Naruto, then throw it out for 200 chapters made me wonder if he regretted the decision to put it in in the first place.


Doesn't make it less bad in my eyes, to be frank.


----------



## izzyisozaki (Nov 20, 2014)

> Naruto never loved Sakura. End of story. (Literally.)



please stop this bullshit already Anti-NarSak


----------



## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

Another part of the interview
"Naruto, feeling passionate love for the first time !

Hinata, since her younger years, always loved Naruto but never went on the offensive with Naruto due to her shyness and reserveness.
But the skeptical and clumsy Naruto can’t figure out Hinata’s feelings.
This movie will tell the process on how Naruto fell in love with Hinata.
The love of theses two clumsy fellow, gaze upon it !"


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Alright so I can admit when I'm wrong. I just read the raw text, and after reading it I think the translators done fucked up when translating it. So here's what I get out of the text:
> 
> " From fairly earlier we agreed on hinata.  For Sakura to waver at the final stage, and change her mind to Naruto, she'd be too heartless of a female (laughs). Since I thought Sakura was whole heartedly for Sasuke."
> 
> ...



What OP said then?



> Edit: And I still find Sasuke/Sakura morally deplorable, I just now think Kishi didn't care to think it through enough rather than him proactively advocating poor moral values.



You took this long to realise Kishi isn't advocating poor moral values? What gave it away? Was it the plot being placed in a world where they try to assassinate each other every day?



Hollow'd Heart said:


> The person who translated it in not the same person on the blog.



And I should take that person's word for granted when her blog is filled with NaruSaku tears because?

Look. What Kishi said about Sakura fits the 'fickle like the autumn skies' scene. It doesn't fit that Sakura gave up on Naruto because of Hinata. And I don't see why anyone but NS fans would cling to that. That means Hinata had no value and that AGAIN it was all about Sakura's decision in the end.

Turrin just confirmed it's exactly like OP and he was a NaruSaku fan once.


----------



## Kage (Nov 20, 2014)

Should Kishimoto's blatant sexism and shit writing be shocking to me at this point or...



Seto Kaiba said:


> This dishonesty is quite a sight. You guys are seriously trying to pretend no one has ever said anything against Naruto and Sasuke's relationship, ever. Or how messed up it is. When that has been one of the more vocal criticisms against Naruto's character, even by some SasuSaku fans, hypocritically enough...



_Some._



The biggest difference is most who enjoyed the Naruto/Sasuke dynamic didn't make it a point to incessantly _whine_ at everybody who has legitimate gripes with it. Or bother denying that it's pretty fucked up. So the only conclusion to draw from this is it has never been under the same scrutiny that poor widdle SS has unjustly been subjected to 

Them self-insert ships man.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

> Was it the plot being placed in a world where they try to assassinate each other every day?



I wonder if the people that mindlessly say things like this realize that our world is many times more brutal and morally gray than the Narutoverse ever was?


----------



## Jagger (Nov 20, 2014)

I think we all agree with something:

Kishi is an average writer that should not produce another long-running manga.


----------



## Kait0 (Nov 20, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Doesn't make it less bad in my eyes, to be frank.


I agree with you, but it also doesn't make the series any less entertaining overall.  I appreciate it for what it was meant to be and ignore all of the crap that didn't immediately provide to the story.  No amount of awful story writing will change that.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> please stop this bullshit already Anti-NarSak


Earlier interviews said Naruto's feelings for Sakura were always a light crush, not love.


----------



## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> You're completely just assuming that's the reason she'd be considered "heartless" because you can pull things out of your ass?
> 
> He clearly explained that the reason she'd be heartless is because he imagined that she was always in love with Sasuke. Thus, she'd be fickle if she suddenly switched.
> 
> This isn't even NEW information, this is the kind of thing Kishi already intimated to the reader in the failfession. That is the only potentiality he sees for NaruSaku, exactly the kind of convenient and shallow lie that Sakura was making up.


I literally said the same thing as the failconfession so what are you talking about 

I said she'd be heartless to get with Naruto, who actually loved her, when she loved Sasuke. That's literally what the point of the fail confession was, that it was heartless to toy with Naruto's emotions that way.



> Naruto never loved Sakura. End of story. (Literally.)


The reason it's heartless is because Naruto loved Sakura. Sakura prentending to be into Naruto, when he didn't love her wouldn't be heartless, because no one would care, it would just be like k whatever. It's heartless because it's fucking with Naruto's emotions, that's why in the fail confession people were getting pissed at her, because she was being a bitch to Naruto to pretend she was in love with him when he really was in love with her.


----------



## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> Another part of the interview
> 
> Says in the movie, Naruto passionately falls in love for the first time from the early translations that I gathered. Anybody can confirm if they want






> Naruto passionately falls in love for the first time





> for the first time





> The last story is: the [beginning/new]first love



I wonder just HOW MANY TIMES articles in Japan will offhandedly explain that Naruto's never been in love before (especially with Sakura) before people will realize that this is the truth and that they're incorrect?


----------



## izzyisozaki (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Earlier interviews said Naruto's feelings for Sakura were always a light crush, not love.



Earlier interviews lmao source this shit if you can

Either way I'm an SN fan and I don't give two shits about Naruto --> Sakura but I still know how to read


----------



## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He did. He referenced her and said they could recognize each other by the look in their eyes. For a shonen, that's a big thing since most would just brush it off. Seriously, you want this to be a Shojo?



Naruto would have said exactly the same thing even if Hinata hadn't confessed. He ignored her actual confession.


----------



## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> The reason it's heartless is because Naruto loved Sakura.



No it's not. You're an idiot.

She would be heartless to Sasuke, whom she would have given up on. She'd be heartless in general, a person who gives up on something she was dedicated to "for so long"/"the whole time".


----------



## Jagger (Nov 20, 2014)

I think it was pretty obvious that Naruto never felt anything as strong as "love" towards Sakura.

Or, if he did, he never showed it.


----------



## C-Moon (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I wonder if the people that mindlessly say things like this realize that our world is many times more brutal and morally gray than the Narutoverse ever was?



They only want morality thrown out the window when SS is under the microscope.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> Earlier interviews lmao source this shit if you can


It was literally posted a week ago. Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never that deep. Kishimoto confirmed it izzyisozaki.


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 20, 2014)

ch1p said:


> I'm going to be 100% genuine about this. There are plenty of relationships that tiptoe around the bush regarding this matter.
> 
> I accept Kakashi and Sasuke, Sasuke and Sakura, Itachi and Sasuke, Hashirama and Madara, all have legitimate relationships because they drew a line at some point. One of them said 'it's enough'. It doesn't matter if they didn't manage to break bonds or that they didn't go through with this or any other technicality, the fact that they drew that line was important. They're real, as far as this manga goes.
> 
> ...



Because pairings are more popular than the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke. Doesn't mean Naruto is some saint, he was in the same boat as Sakura when it concerned Sasuke. How can you glorify SasuSaku but hate the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke? Naruto and Sakura both went out of their ways to protect Sasuke at no costs and Sasuke treated them both like trash whether it be through mental or physical means. They both were fixated on Sasuke. The Kage Summit arc was literally the worst thing that could have happened to Naruto and Sakura, made both of them look like mugs.


----------



## Kait0 (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> I wonder just HOW MANY TIMES articles in Japan will offhandedly explain that Naruto's never been in love before (especially with Sakura) before people will realize that this is the truth and that they're incorrect?


Please, no...  Don't restart the crush versus love debate.  Let the movie explain it; or don't.  I would be happy with both, just so the gun remains uncocked.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

There were no interviews where Kishi said Naruto only felt lightly for Sakura. However, it's the second time the movie info is pushing 'it was a crush all along' envelope. It's all a matter of what you believe or not. If merchandise info is legitimate or not, or if the movie is canon or not.



Gipsy Danger said:


> No it's not. You're an idiot.
> 
> She would be heartless to Sasuke, whom she would have given up on. She'd be heartless in general, a person who gives up on something she was dedicated to "for so long"/"the whole time".



I tend to agree more with this TBH.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> Naruto would have said exactly the same thing even if Hinata hadn't confessed. He ignored her actual confession.


No, he didn't. If he did, he wouldn't have brought up any of those moments. Marsala, the confession was never ignored, Naruto just didn't know how to fucking respond. This is the same guy who had no idea what _familial love was_ until he met his mom, yet you expected him to address romantic love quickly?


----------



## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

”ナルトと言えば、サクラに淡い恋心を抱いていたが、今回はナルトを秘かに想っていたヒナタとの関係に変化 が…。原作で描かれていない時代に、この2人に何が起きていたのか、確かめることができそうだ ”

"Speaking of Naruto, he [once] had light/faint feelings for Sakura but this time he will change his relationship with Hinata [there will be a change in their relationship] who has always secretly been in love with him… It appears like we’ll be able to verify what happens between these two during the period of time that had not been drawn/written in the original work.”


"Naruto, feeling passionate love for the first time !

Hinata, since her younger years, always loved Naruto but never went on the offensive with Naruto due to her shyness and reserveness.
But the skeptical and clumsy Naruto can’t figure out Hinata’s feelings.
This movie will tell the process on how Naruto fell in love with Hinata.
The love of theses two clumsy fellow, gaze upon it !"

I think that should end that theory. Naruto never loved Sakura...


----------



## izzyisozaki (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It was literally posted a week ago.  Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never that deep. Kishimoto confirmed  it izzyisozaki.



Still don't see any proof

edit: Who translated it, if I may know? Either way, it doesn't look like an interview.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> You're completely just assuming that's the reason she'd be considered "heartless" because you can pull things out of your ass?
> 
> He clearly explained that the reason she'd be heartless is because he imagined that she was always in love with Sasuke. Thus, she'd be fickle if she suddenly switched.
> 
> ...



Which is what i find very unfair about Kubo's treatment of NH. If that was Kishi's intention, he fucked up their relationship with half assed misgivings about another female for years after it got old and stale. Naruto should have been waving on it it after the chunnin exams and definitely over it by the end of part 1. But we had to waddle through all that date shit with no sign of Hinata. That's not fair to her at all.

And if one is the type of person to forgive that kind of lazy writing with "oh he was obviously just doing red herrings by his editors", then low standards ahoy  I have a very critical eye, so just accepting out of manga excuses for conundrums like that is not going to be possible


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> I wonder just HOW MANY TIMES articles in Japan will offhandedly explain that Naruto's never been in love before (especially with Sakura) before people will realize that this is the truth and that they're incorrect?


Really, it's just a case of believing what you want to believe. If this movie is supposed to say that Naruto falls in love for the first time nobody should really care if Kishi had once considered going for NaruSaku, meaning that he would be strictly written as being in love with Sakura.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> Still don't see any proof


AeroNin just posted it. Seriously don't put your head in the sand.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> Naruto would have said exactly the same thing even if Hinata hadn't confessed. He ignored her actual confession.





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, he didn't. If he did, he wouldn't have brought up any of those moments. Marsala, the confession was never ignored, Naruto just didn't know how to fucking respond. This is the same guy who had no idea what _familial love was_ until he met his mom, yet you expected him to address romantic love quickly?



You're both wrong.  Kishimoto deliberately handwaved and avoided it because he didn't want to "spoil" the conclusion of the shipping until the end.


----------



## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, he didn't. If he did, he wouldn't have brought up any of those moments. Marsala, the confession was never ignored, Naruto just didn't know how to fucking respond. This is the same guy who had no idea what _familial love was_ until he met his mom, yet you expected him to address romantic love quickly?



It's absolutely ridiculous that Naruto never answered Hinata's feelings directly. He's not a complete idiot. He saw how Sakura confessed to Sasuke.



ChickenPotPie said:


> You're both wrong.  Kishimoto deliberately handwaved and avoided it because he didn't want to "spoil" the conclusion of the shipping until the end.



Well of course, that's the answer out of story. But in story, Naruto is either a complete jerk or stricken with very convenient partial amnesia.


----------



## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> I wonder just HOW MANY TIMES articles in Japan will offhandedly explain that Naruto's never been in love before (especially with Sakura) before people will realize that this is the truth and that they're incorrect?


Please excuse me if I take Kishimoto's intentions over a noncannonical source that seemingly knows so little about the manga that they don't realize Naruto already witnessed Hinata confessing to him, and therefore say that Naruto is unaware of Hinata's feelings.


----------



## Jagger (Nov 20, 2014)

I just wanted SakuIno for kinky entertainment.

NOT EVEN THAT WAS DELIVERED.

Kishi should commit Sudoku.


----------



## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> Still don't see any proof
> 
> edit: Who translated it, if I may know?



Movie article




?ナルトと言えば、サクラに淡い恋心を抱いていたが、今回はナルトを秘かに想っていたヒナタとの関係に変化 が?。原作で描かれていない時代に、この2人に何が起きていたのか、確かめることができそうだ ?

"Speaking of Naruto, he [once] had light/faint feelings for Sakura but this time he will change his relationship with Hinata [there will be a change in their relationship] who has always secretly been in love with him? It appears like we?ll be able to verify what happens between these two during the period of time that had not been drawn/written in the original work.?


----------



## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> Still don't see any proof
> 
> edit: Who translated it, if I may know?



There's also circumstantial evidence in the manga

Given that Naruto was quite happy with the outcome of events in the ending of the manga. Don't you think Naruto would have tried for some kind of last ditch confession to Sakura if he felt _anything at all_ that strongly for her? He's not the kind of person to lay down and avoid a fight.

He didn't fight because he didn't want her.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> It's absolutely ridiculous that Naruto never answered Hinata's feelings directly. He's not a complete idiot. He saw how Sakura confessed to Sasuke.


Its not that he is an idiot, Marsala. Its that he was completely _dumbfounded_ on how to respond. Naruto again didn't even know familial love until he met with his mother.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Because pairings are more popular than the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke.



You mean pairings are more popular than the main bond of the manga? HAHAHA! I find this funny. Kishi failed that relationship so very much, according to you.  I really don't care if it's more or less popular tho. It's still double standards.



> Doesn't mean Naruto is some saint, he was in the same boat as Sakura when it concerned Sasuke.



The difference is that Sakura crossed the line. Like Kakashi, Sasuke (towards Itachi) and Hashirama did. This difference is important to me.



> How can you glorify SasuSaku but hate the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke? Naruto and Sakura both went out of their ways to protect Sasuke at no costs and Sasuke treated them both like trash whether it be through mental or physical means. They both were fixated on Sasuke. The Kage Summit arc was literally the worst thing that could have happened to Naruto and Sakura, made both of them look like mugs.



I don't hate the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke, I just don't see the appeal because of how fake and forced it feels. Furthermore, I've long since stopped caring about Suenuto, because the character I liked was Naruto.

I don't glorify Kage Summit arc for SS at all either. In fact, I'd rather if it had never happened. That whole shtick was unnecessary and then we have these dumb threads too. It doesn't dampen my feelings towards the pairing in general or the idea of it though, because there's more to them than this.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

> They have butthurt or personal vendettas pushing them instead.



How do SasuSaku fans tell themselves this? The poll that was here recently, over 400 people voted on it, and of those over 260 voted against SasuSaku...

At any given time on this forum there are 300-350 active members on it, which means basically most active members voted on that poll, and you're trying to tell yourself they all had some secret vendetta as opposed to the obvious; that the majority simply saw a fucked up relationship and were disgusted by it? 

That's just as bad as the denial NaruSaku fans have had in this thread. I've seen every desperate maneuver thrown here in an attempt to validate the very real criticisms people have made. A lot of it stemming from simple-minded accusations of jealousy.


----------



## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its not that he is an idiot, Marsala. Its that he was completely _dumbfounded_ on how to respond. Naruto again didn't even know familial love until he met with his mother.



Then he's a coward or a jerk. He should have at least gone to Hinata and thanked her for her confession while saying that he didn't know how to respond yet or something.

Instead he apparently pretended that it never happened, leaving poor Hinata hanging for two years and feeling that she was the one who was too timid.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Please excuse me if I take Kishimoto's intentions over a noncannonical source that seemingly knows so little about the manga that they don't realize Naruto already witnessed Hinata confessing to him, and therefore say that Naruto is unaware of Hinata's feelings.


he wasn't unaware, he just didn't know how to respond.


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## izzyisozaki (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> He didn't fight because he didn't want her.



Could it be because she screamed her love at Sasuke once again? Nahh right? Like who would give up after the ultimate evidence that you have no chance in being more appealing than a douche gentleman like Sasuke!


----------



## Suit (Nov 20, 2014)

Jagger said:


> I just wanted SakuIno for kinky entertainment.
> 
> NOT EVEN THAT WAS DELIVERED.
> 
> Kishi should *commit Sudoku*.



Damnit Jagger, shut up.


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## Turrin (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> he wasn't unaware, he just didn't know how to respond.



The source people are citing says he was unaware.


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## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> How do SasuSaku fans tell themselves this? The poll that was here recently, over 400 people voted on it, and of those over 260 voted against SasuSaku...
> 
> At any given time on this forum there are 300-350 active members on it, which means basically most active members voted on that poll, and you're trying to tell yourself they all had some secret vendetta as opposed to the obvious; that the majority simply saw a fucked up relationship and were disgusted by it?
> 
> That's just as bad as the denial NaruSaku fans have had in this thread.



While I don't ship that stuff, in the NaruHina tag on tumblr, I've seen incorrectly cross-tagged SasuSaku posts with thousands of likes. That beats the hell out of your 260 number, your number which is tampered with just as much negative bias as tumblr is with positive bias. If you'll note, a majority of people in the Library hate Naruto the series on the whole, wish they'd never read it in the first place or desperately just wanted it over so they could stop "torturing" themselves. Of course they wouldn't support something that occurred in the ending to that very same series.


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## Kage (Nov 20, 2014)

How do Sasusaku fans just Sasusaku.

It's better not to know these things, the answers are horrible and cringe worthy.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> Then he's a coward or a jerk. He should have at least gone to Hinata and thanked her for her confession while saying that he didn't know how to respond yet or something.
> 
> Instead he apparently pretended that it never happened, leaving poor Hinata hanging for two years and feeling that she was the one who was too timid.


He's neither and you know it. An orphan, who never experienced _any_ love for what, the first 12-13 years of his life would know how to suddenly respond to romantic love? Hell, there's also the fact _he loses memories when he lost control of Kurama_ at that period so he probably had blanks.

Naruto never knew how to respond, there were bigger things than his love life that needed addressing (a fricking war, controlling the Fox, etc.) before he could even hope to get to the feelings and confession. 

And Naruto DID thank her when he assured her she was strong and that they could recognize each other by eye contact.


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## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> who would give up after the ultimate evidence that you have no chance!



Uhh

How about Naruto

Naruto never gives up, especially when provided with evidence that he has no chance.

This would contradict his core character, unless of course we consider the obvious possibility which has not been ruled out: he never wanted her that badly to begin with.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

It seems like the movie is retconning Hinata's confession. I wonder how NH would feel about that if its confirmed.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> The source people are citing says he was unaware.


Other translations make it seem he was unaware to respond.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> While I don't ship that stuff, in the NaruHina tag on tumblr, I've seen incorrectly cross-tagged SasuSaku posts with thousands of likes. That beats the hell out of your 260 number, your number which is tampered with just as much negative bias as tumblr is with positive bias.



No it's not, because here it's a tallied vote. Furthermore, what goes on in tumblr isn't relevant to what people are stating here. SasuSaku fans have continuously tried to accuse people speaking out in criticism of it here as having ulterior motives, rather than just simply finding the pairing fucked up and not liking it because of that.



> If you'll note, a majority of people in the Library hate Naruto the series on the whole, wish they'd never read it in the first place or desperately just wanted it over so they could stop "torturing" themselves. Of course they wouldn't support something that occurred in the ending to that very same series.



You are confusing contempt for the ending as just being for one reason as opposed to that contempt stemming from distinct criticisms towards particular matters that the ending addressed. Yes, a lot of people didn't like how Part II went in general, but that only tells half the story. This matter is pertaining to a specific matter of criticism.


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## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> The source people are citing says he was unaware.



On some of the translations it said Naruto couldn't "comprehend" Hinata's confession (which would make sense, that was the first time anybody has ever said I love you to Naruto)

Like posted earlier, according to some movie rumors Naruto didn't pursue a relationship with Hinata even though he started developing feelings for her because he thought it would "substitute" the love of Kushina.

Besides the manga clearly indicated that he was aware/remembered


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## izzyisozaki (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> Uhh
> 
> How about Naruto
> 
> ...



this is bullshit

Naruto has never made it a life philosophy to get into Sakura's pants

but to _help her

_he kept his promise, and got jack shit recognition for it considering Naruto/Sakura is totally lacking from 700 (and hardly there [except on Naruto's behalf] in 699). I dislike NaruSaku yet I find this treatment pretty disgusting.


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## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> It seems like the movie is retconning Hinata's confession. I wonder how NH would feel about that if its confirmed.



I'd flip a table, for the record


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## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You are confusing contempt for the ending as just being for one reason as opposed to that contempt stemming from distinct criticisms towards particular matters that the ending addressed. Yes, a lot of people didn't like how Part II went in general, but that only tells half the story. This matter is pertaining to a specific matter of criticism.




I just think it heavily colours their perspective as they read the story from week to week. A person set in their ways wants to continue feeling the way they have been over and over again like an addiction. They hate the events of Naruto, so they will continue hating the events of Naruto by looking at things from whatever perspective makes them angry.

What it all really comes down to is those that accept Sasuke's redemption/inherent goodness, and those that do not.

I believe those that do not are those whose opinions should be disregarded.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 20, 2014)

Hydro Spiral said:


> I'd flip a table, for the record



Well, then, i hope for your sake it ends up not being the case, don't want you to be damaging your furniture


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## ch1p (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> How do SasuSaku fans tell themselves this? The poll that was here recently, over 400 people voted on it, and of those over 260 voted against SasuSaku...
> 
> At any given time on this forum there are 300-350 active members on it, which means basically most active members voted on that poll, and you're trying to tell yourself they all had some secret vendetta as opposed to the obvious; that the majority simply saw a fucked up relationship and were disgusted by it?
> 
> That's just as bad as the denial NaruSaku fans have had in this thread. I've seen every desperate maneuver thrown here in an attempt to validate the very real criticisms people have made. A lot of it stemming from simple-minded accusations of jealousy.



That doesn't counter anything that I said.



Gipsy Danger said:


> While I don't ship that stuff, in the NaruHina tag on tumblr, I've seen incorrectly cross-tagged SasuSaku posts with thousands of likes. That beats the hell out of your 260 number, your number which is tampered with just as much negative bias as tumblr is with positive bias. If you'll note, a majority of people in the Library hate Naruto the series on the whole, wish they'd never read it in the first place or desperately just wanted it over so they could stop "torturing" themselves. Of course they wouldn't support something that occurred in the ending to that very same series.



This is true.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> I just think it heavily colours their perspective as they read the story from week to week. A person set in their ways wants to continue feeling the way they have been over and over again like an addiction. They hate the events of Naruto, so they will continue hating the events of Naruto by looking at things from whatever perspective makes them angry.
> 
> What it all really comes down to is those that accept Sasuke's redemption/inherent goodness, and those that do not.
> 
> I believe those that do not are those whose opinions should be disregarded.



Yet that does nothing to explain why they feel that way. Do you get what I'm saying? Behind those critical viewpoints are criticisms that vary with each specific aspect of the story.

No it doesn't, because virtually no one disputes the events as they've happened in the story. What is under criticism is the execution of it all, particularly regarding the themes Kishi attempted to express through these events.



			
				ch1p said:
			
		

> That doesn't counter anything that I said.



You didn't have a point.


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## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> this is bullshit
> 
> Naruto has never made it a life philosophy to get into Sakura's pants
> 
> ...



You're right. Naruto has never made it a life philosophy to be with Sakura.

He did swear to help her, and it was clearly in the sense of a friend and teammate. If his desire to bring Sasuke back had anything to do with helping her as somebody he romantically loved, he still would not have given up in the end of the series.

But of course, he never made any attempts on Sakura and the most obvious explanation for this remains the idea that he didn't want her as a romantic partner.


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## izzyisozaki (Nov 20, 2014)

Tumblr is a legitimate source now 

@Gipsy - No sorry, the manga contradicts that. Whether some second-hand source calls them "shallow" or not does not deny their existence in the manga.


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## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> It seems like the movie is retconning Hinata's confession. I wonder how NH would feel about that if its confirmed.



Whatever.   As long as we get a decent story.

I agreed with ch1p's assessment last night on the retcon but it's not an end-all be-all deal for me.


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## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Yet that does nothing to explain why they feel that way. Do you get what I'm saying? Behind those critical viewpoints are criticisms that vary with each specific aspect of the story.
> 
> No it doesn't, because virtually no one disputes the events as they've happened in the story. What is under criticism is the execution of it all, particularly regarding the themes Kishi attempted to express through these events.



I'm sorry, I didn't mean those that accept that Sasuke's redemption occured.


I meant those that don't accept that Sasuke's redemption was natural/justified/the correct course of action for the storyteller/done well.

Those are the people to ignore, because they are inherently disconnected with the very themes of the manga.


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## Romanticide (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> But of course, he never made any attempts on Sakura and the most obvious explanation for this remains the idea that he didn't want her as a romantic partner.



He made attempts in part 1 and 2, such as the failed kiss/forehead line before he got sick form the spoiled milk. He wanted to kiss her, and blushed at Konohamaru and Gama's pinky finger gesture.


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## Kait0 (Nov 20, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> Whatever.   As long as we get a decent story.
> 
> I agreed with ch1p's assessment last night on the retcon but it's not an end-all be-all deal for me.


This.  Don't care so long as the mystery gets solved and there is some entertainment value behind it.


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## Njaa (Nov 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> With that said, and with me admitting I was wrong about a few things and that Kishi isn't quite as big of a nut case as I thought based on the online trans out of the way, I still take issues with the information revealed in this interview, because to me it's like if Kishi never thought that Sakura would ever waver from Sasuke and he planned NaruHina fairly early on (I'm assuming that means some time in P1 or at the last early PII), than it's still like WTF Kishi in the case of both pairings. In the case of SS it's like if you knew those two were going to end up together since the start, than why have Sasuke try and kill her so many times making that relationship so deplorable and if it was going to be NaruHina than why not give Hinata more screen time and build her up as more influential character, and expand further on that relationship (rather than leave Naruto in love with Sakura throughout the entirety of the story). I could go on, but there is no need; in the end it just furthers my belief that Kishi really did not care about the pairings all that much.
> 
> .



As far as SS is concerned and especially with things that happened near the end, i honestly think Kishi was trying to do an Itachi and Sasuke type thing. Where Itachi/Sasuke remained assholes till the moment they let their masks fall and reveal their true feelings.

Now when it comes to NH it really wasn't that surprising when it comes to the manga itself since It got treated the same as most canon pairings. It being done through the females perspective and left to fill in the blanks when it came to the male PoV, then skip a decade and boom they're already together with kids (MK comes to mind as an example). The wrench in this comes ironically enough, from a movie that's suppose to show Naruto's PoV on it. 2 year timeskip along with some interesting marketing phrases that certainly leave you wondering why this way.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean those that accept that Sasuke's redemption occured.
> 
> 
> I meant those that don't accept that Sasuke's redemption was natural/justified/the correct course of action for the storyteller/done well.
> ...



No they aren't. To say that it wasn't done well or was not reasonably justified is a perfectly valid criticism to make. That is way different from denying that the events of the story occurred, and denying the intention behind them.

The themes of the manga, that the author chose to define his manga by, are not defined by the author himself. What he does is take those themes and to the best of his ability, try to portray them in a way that best resonates with people as they actually exist and are held by individuals.


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## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No they aren't. To say that it wasn't done well or was not reasonably justified is a perfectly valid criticism to make. That is way different from denying that events of the story and the intention behind them.
> 
> The themes of the manga, that the author chose to define his manga by, are not defined by the author himself. What he does is take those themes and to the best of his ability, try to portray them in a way that best resonates with people as they actually exist and are held by individuals.



They can feel free to hold those opinions. Nobody can stop anyone else from holding opinions.

But I value them as much as I would value a creationist's opinion on the teaching of evolution in public schools.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> They can feel free to hold those opinions. Nobody can stop anyone else from holding opinions.
> 
> But I value them as much as I would value a creationist's opinion on the teaching of evolution in public schools.



You're confusing criticism of a story with denying facts of a story. Which makes your analogy faulty.

It appears you are essentially saying those that did not like the writing are those whose opinions are of no value and to be dismissed, which is a pretty ridiculous thing to imply. Because you are essentially trying to say criticism should not be permitted.


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## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You're confusing criticism of a story with denying facts of a story. Which makes your analogy faulty.



I think you're confusing my stance. I'm sorry, I never meant to imply my statements had something to do with the events of the series being denied. My statement was wholly regarding my rationale for outright dismissing what I view to be biased criticism of the story. If one thinks Sasuke was evil and did not deserve redemption, then as a result, I don't care what they have to say. I agree with Kishimoto's vision on that matter, and thus the events of the manga throughout were both thematically consistent and pleasing to me.


That some would hate the events of the manga so much that they'd shut their eyes and cover their ears is an entirely different and sad topic of conversation that I don't much care to think about or discuss.


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## Revolution (Nov 20, 2014)

Let's just hope there is SS in the movie. We already see Naruto is the one pursuing Hinata.  Put some SS there so the non-shippers can see an actual relationship.


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## Darkhope (Nov 20, 2014)

No, Naruto's feelings for Sakura were never that serious.  Hence why the movie is shoving the theme "LOVE FOR THE FIRST TIME" and "NARUTO HAS HIS FIRST LOVE" in our faces.  Because Hinata is the real deal.

The run down is that NaruHina has been intended for a long time (?quite some time ago?) - so all those ?sell out? theories just flew out the window. Kishi here is pretty much saying that yes, NaruHina was always the original pairing he had in mind. At one point down the line in the story he considered Sakura as an option (it?s natural to think of the pathways you can go/explore where you can take your story) but he scrapped that idea for these reasons:

Kishi basically said that if she suddenly started to love Naruto/switch over to him after coming so far (like after so long in the manga) then she would look awful because she has always loved Sasuke and would give up her wholeheartedness for him. The last sentence confirms it: ?Sakura has always been wholeheartedly about Sasuke?. Meaning Sakura has her mind only set on Sasuke. This is something we tried to nail in those NS fans heads but they didn?t listen. Sakura has never loved Naruto romantically. Ever.

Oh and for the record? Sakura being ?terrible? has nothing to do with Hinata. NaruHina being the original pairing from ?quite long ago? is a separate sentence. I explained above the reason why Sakura would have been viewed as terrible if she ended up with Naruto. 

~

Here, another translation:



かなり前からヒナタで決めていました。

I decided that Naruto would end up with Hinata from quite a while ago

-サクラにしようかと迷った時期もあってのですが、ここへ来てサクラがナルトに心変わりしたら、さすがにサクラはひどい女過ぎるでしょう（笑）

There was a period of time when I considered Sakura ending up with Naruto, but to have Sakura come all this way and suddenly change [her feelings] towards Naruto would made her seem too horrible as a woman (laugh)<?Kishi is saying that making Sakura like Naruto all of a sudden would be going too far considering the fact that Sakura had always liked Sasuke (thus a ?horrible women?) 

-なんだかんだでサスケに対して一途なんだと思います

-I think that Sakura always had her mind set only on Sasuke.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 20, 2014)

Gipsy Danger said:


> I think you're confusing my stance. I'm sorry, I never meant to imply my statements had something to do with the events of the series being denied. My statement was wholly regarding my rationale for outright dismissing what I view to be biased criticism of the story.



Everyone has biases. That doesn't render their statements invalid in itself however.



> If one thinks Sasuke was evil and did not deserve redemption, then as a result, I don't care what they have to say. I agree with Kishimoto's vision on that matter, and thus the events of the manga throughout were both thematically consistent and pleasing to me.



Then that mindset is to dismiss criticism as a whole, and in turn, how a story is generally discussed. 



> That some would hate the events of the manga so much that they'd shut their eyes and cover their ears is an entirely different and sad topic of conversation that I don't much care to think about or discuss.



It's not about blinding oneself to it for most people, it is that what Kishi tried to present to them directly clashed with the concepts as they are commonly held. You are not going to convince a lot of people of a successful portrayal of the themes Kishimoto intended for Sasuke's situation to express in consideration of his actions. Simply because in reality, we recognize many of the things he did as inexcusable and indefensible. Their settings would not be a valid retort to such a matter exactly because Kishi wished for these matters to relate to us as existing individuals, in a positive manner.


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## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Didn't think this would turn into a 37 page shit storm.


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## Milliardo (Nov 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He's neither and you know it. An orphan, who never experienced _any_ love for what, the first 12-13 years of his life would know how to suddenly respond to romantic love? Hell, there's also the fact _he loses memories when he lost control of Kurama_ at that period so he probably had blanks.
> 
> Naruto never knew how to respond, there were bigger things than his love life that needed addressing (a fricking war, controlling the Fox, etc.) before he could even hope to get to the feelings and confession.
> 
> And Naruto DID thank her when he assured her she was strong and that they could recognize each other by eye contact.



these excuses for naruto are pathetic. naruto had plenty of time to respond to her, it takes seconds to talk to somebody wtf like ya know what he did to the bridge builder. you act like he doesn't know human emotions or something at the age sixteen.. how does he relate to other people then or where does he come up with his speeches since he doesn't know how to talk to people lol? people obviously took care of naruto when he was young too btw.

naruto comes off like a dick and coward because he brushed off someone who cared for him and can't even muster up even something as easy as "thank you I'll talk to you later." 

its fucking common sense to repond to someone who not only tried to save your life but confessed their love to you... No one is saying he had to give her an immediate answer.

nobody would do that in real life unless they were an asshole, coward, or retarded. even people who can't talk or don't know the same language would have responded in some way. there is no excuse whatsoever for it other than "kishi sucks at romance" honestly.


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## Kait0 (Nov 20, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Didn't think this would turn into a 37 page shit storm.


You didn't?  I didn't even know these kinds of circle jerks existed until like, 2 weeks ago, and even an outsider like me could see this turning into a gigantic shit storm from a mile away.


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## Cereza (Nov 20, 2014)

this shit is already 37 pages ?


Pairings could have been handled better
they could have had a little more development to make 
them credible  cause the end result is just


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## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

> Naruto has his first love
> 
> Hinata, who always had feelings for Naruto, was timid, and so she never had a chance to be assertive. And it is suspicious that Naruto even noticed her feelings for him. However, in this work/movie, the process in which Naruto falls in love with Hinata is drawn out. Let’s properly/closely watch/see for ourselves the love story of the clumbsy/awkward couple.
> 
> ...





> Hinata, who always had feelings for Naruto, was timid, and so she never had a chance to be assertive. And it is suspicious that Naruto even noticed her feelings for him.
> .
> .
> .
> ...




SO WHICH IS IT?!


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## Revolution (Nov 20, 2014)

Darkhope said:


> -なんだかんだでサスケに対して一途なんだと思います
> 
> -I think that Sakura always had her mind set only on Sasuke.





Good to know a girl somewhere put there loved Sasuke


----------



## AeroNin (Nov 20, 2014)

Q: At the end of 699, Sasuke left the village and is depicted travelling, what was the intention of writing a conclusion like this?

Kishimoto: After he did all those things, I don?t think he could really live in the village as normal. So it?s his journey of atonement. Furthermore, in the story inside my head he?s also gone out to solve the questions that weren?t answered. For example, what exactly is Kaguya, the last boss in the manga. If they don?t find out where she came from the same things could happen again, so the journey is sort of to prevent that as well. But if I explain these things at length people will think the manga might carry on even further so I skipped writing about it. Because I don?t have any plans to continue those storylines.


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## Gipsy Danger (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> SO WHICH IS IT?!



I suppose the only rational conclusions based on what this source is telling us would be that Hinata confessed her feelings to Naruto and somehow Naruto didn't understand either the nature of her confessed feelings, or the depth of them. Or he really DID have a Kyuubi memory lapse of just those exact words "I love you", even though he remembered Hinata intervening and standing up against Pain.

The Last could go out of its way to tell us his memory cuts off at "I'm just being selfish..." we've never known just want Naruto remembers of those events, other than that he recalls Hinata leaping in to the rescue. Up until now, that panel with Naruto recalling the intervention led us to believe he remembered every single thing that she said. This might not _necessarily_ be the case, although I'd still assume it is for the time being.


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## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> For example, what exactly is Kaguya, the last boss in the manga. If they don’t find out where she came from the same things could happen again, so the journey is sort of to prevent that as well. But if I explain these things at length people will think the manga might carry on even further so I skipped writing about it. Because I don’t have any plans to continue those storylines.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> Kishimoto: After he did all those things, I don’t think he could really live in the village as normal. So it’s his journey of atonement. Furthermore, in the story inside my head he’s also gone out to solve the questions that weren’t answered. For example, what exactly is Kaguya, the last boss in the manga. If they don’t find out where she came from the same things could happen again, so the journey is sort of to prevent that as well. *But if I explain these things at length people will think the manga might carry on even further so I skipped writing about it. Because I don’t have any plans to continue those storylines.*



Yo, is this why so much stuff went unexplained? 

Kishi isn't doing himself too many favors with this interview, it seems.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Lol. He couldn't be bothered to finish the story.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> Q: At the end of 699, Sasuke left the village and is depicted travelling, what was the intention of writing a conclusion like this?
> 
> Kishimoto: After he did all those things, I don?t think he could really live in the village as normal. So it?s his journey of atonement. Furthermore, in the story inside my head he?s also gone out to solve the questions that weren?t answered. For example, what exactly is Kaguya, the last boss in the manga. If they don?t find out where she came from the same things could happen again, so the journey is sort of to prevent that as well. But if I explain these things at length people will think the manga might carry on even further so I skipped writing about it. Because I don?t have any plans to continue those storylines.


Is that a legitimate translation?


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> SO WHICH IS IT?!



So they didn't retcon it out?    Well I guess we'll wait and see.


----------



## Kurama (Nov 20, 2014)

Marsala said:


> SO WHICH IS IT?!



Its pretty obviously giving a breakdown of, wait for it, development of Hinata's pursuit of Naruto. Its talkung about where it started where she's too shy to approach him and he's too oblivious to take notice of her feelings up to where she confesses.

On the subject of Naruto->Hinata, its pretty straightforward. He didn't know how to respond immediately. There's a good chance that along with Minato and Nagato are the things he wanted to talk to Tsunade about before being swept up in Criminal Sauce drama. But in the time he spent on Turtle Island, meeting his mother and getting an understanding of love for himself, he was able to at least start in his own way, hence the "In Your Eyes" moment, the "By My Side" handhold, and his reaction to her falling to MT. Kishi had to try and fit that in with the dealing of the main villains and resolving Team 7/Sasuke & Naruto's rivalry. He admits he gets embarassed writing romance but really wants to portray it properly, so he decides to flesh them out in a movie with help from romance writers. Not seeing how this is such a bad deal for NH fans.

On the subject of Naruto->Sakura, I'm not understanding the insistence that he was ever in love with her when we're never shown the actual development from the mockery it started out as. He entirely ignores her faults, ignores what she dislikes about him and is only concerned with winning over Sasuke. After that, its not even a matter of interacting with his teammates to gradually develop the maturity to fall back in recognition of SS while still growing romantic affection for Sakura, he literally pays them no mind until two specific moments: Sasuke in the Hospital Scene and Sakura in the PoaL. Naruto's growth of affection/adoration is left to another character: Hinata.

So no, he was never in love with Sakura.


----------



## mayumi (Nov 20, 2014)

LOL, he couldn't care less. Dropped any narusaku after trolling them for so long. Dropped anything kaguya related cause he couldn't be bothered or care. :rofl


----------



## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

mayumi said:


> LOL, he couldn't care less. Dropped any narusaku after trolling them for so long. Dropped anything kaguya related cause he couldn't be bothered or care. :rofl



*Looks at bank balance* *Looks at work schedule*

Peace out...


----------



## Blu-ray (Nov 20, 2014)

This thread was 10 pages when I left. How...



Zef said:


> Kishi isn't justifying why SS happened.  He's justifying why NS didn't.  The interview has little to do with SS since the interviewer wasn't asking about it; which makes this thread even more pathetic.The context of Kishi's answers went over most people's head.





Zef said:


> Lel, what intentions?  He  simply stated that the reason NS didn't happen was because Sakura only had feelings for Sasuke, and that he felt said feelings changing to Naruto so late in the story would make her look bad. He's stating why NS didn't happen, and why NH did.
> 
> 
> Kishi wasn't asked about SS so his response to the question over NS and NH can't be used to address why SS is canon.



The answer is so basic, so simple, and yet here we are.


----------



## Suigetsu (Nov 20, 2014)

Well so Naruto really is the first WSJ character that doesnt get the girl that he wants.

And no... Hinata doesnt count because she is needing a fucking movie. I guess both Naruto and Sakura where to selfless.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 20, 2014)

Why so many people in the world are single and miserable. ''He didn't get the girl he wanted", because life just delivers what you want, because moving on is not a viable option.

You're probably not going to get a fraction of the women, you're interested in, in life. What separates happy people from unhappy people is the ability to... _move on_.


----------



## Plague (Nov 20, 2014)

Suigetsu said:


> Well so Naruto really is the first WSJ character that doesnt get the girl that he wants.
> 
> And no... Hinata doesnt count because she is needing a fucking movie. I guess both Naruto and Sakura where to selfless.



If Naruto loves Hinata, isn't he getting the girl that he wants?

And if the movie is canon, what does it matter? 

This type of nitpicking just seems senseless, man.


----------



## Marsala (Nov 20, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Why so many people in the world are single and miserable. ''He didn't get the girl he wanted", because life just delivers what you want, because moving on is not a viable option.
> 
> You're probably not going to get a fraction of the women, you're interested in, in life. What separates happy people from unhappy people is the ability to... _move on_.



Unless you're a woman, in which case moving on makes you terrible.


----------



## thehumangod1 (Nov 20, 2014)

How does Naruto not get the girl he wants when it's clear Naruto's feelings for Hinata are on an entirely different level than anything he ever felt for Sakura. He had a crush on Sakura, got turned down in Part 1, later got a new crush in Hinata and fell in love. Are there some people who really think of every single girl you date after your first crush as being merely a secondary choice to your first crush?


----------



## Vermin (Nov 21, 2014)

i am getting tired of these pairing threads but i will just say one thing, kishi should never attempt to write or hint towards romance ever because he clearly doesn't know shit about incorporating it correctly into his stories


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 21, 2014)

zyken said:


> i am getting tired of these pairing threads but i will just say one thing, kishi should never attempt to write or hint towards romance ever because he clearly doesn't know shit about incorporating it correctly into his stories



He clearly did given how many people were into NaruSaku when his entire intention was the pull the rug from underneath them.


----------



## Punk Zebra (Nov 21, 2014)

As if Sakura ain't terrible already Kishi.

Although I'm a NaruHina shipper, the perfect time for Sakura to switch over to Naruto would have been around the time when Naruto attacked her by accident in Kyuubi form.


----------



## Zynn (Nov 21, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> He clearly did given how many people were into NaruSaku when his entire intention was the pull the rug from underneath them.



Nahh. It's just the fandom's capacity to overanalyze and self-delude is apparently so strong that they mistook platonic relationship as a romantic one.


----------



## Raniero (Nov 21, 2014)

Look at all the conflict Kishi causes with just a few sentences

That guy is a genius


----------



## Revolution (Nov 21, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> This thread was 10 pages when I left. How...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because Karin and Ino were also all about Sasuke, and yet here we are.

There was more chemistry between Sakura and Naruto but Hinata was created for Naruto and the manga focus is on Team 7 more then Taka and Team 10.   So SasuSaku is more of a trophy pairing.  That is why it makes sense.  It's not about depth.  It's about Naruto being the center of everything...I guess


But can someone explain to me why it would make Sakura a terrible woman to fall out of love?


----------



## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)

Revolution said:


> Because Karin and Ino were also all about Sasuke, and yet here we are.



There is a difference Sarahmint. A very crutial one. Karin and Ino didn't love Sasuke, while Sakura loved him genuinely.



> There was more chemistry between Sakura and Naruto but Hinata was created for Naruto and the manga focus is on Team 7 more then Taka and Team 10.   So SasuSaku is more of a trophy pairing.  That is why it makes sense.  It's not about depth.  It's about Naruto being the center of everything...I guess



You're a joke.



> But can someone explain to me why it would make Sakura a terrible woman to fall out of love?



Kishi said it would terrible of her forget Sasuke and to switch to Naruto. It's 469 in an interview format.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Nov 21, 2014)

What the fuck this has over 750 replies?

Anyway I found the whole interview on Reddit. The person who posted it said it came from NF but I can't find it anywhere here (I'm not searching this whole thing and there's no main thread about it). 

Does anyone know where the original post/thread is? Several parts have been translated on other sites so far beyond this one little section and it's pretty hilarious overall. I want to talk about the rest of it but am too lazy to make a thread.


----------



## Suigetsu (Nov 21, 2014)

Plague said:


> If Naruto loves Hinata, isn't he getting the girl that he wants?
> .


Read the manga again without being based.
.





> And if the movie is canon, what does it matter?
> .


Yeah I forgot that is what it matter, that is cannon. Even if it retcons the shit out of everything. But it doesnt matter cause of MUH CANON.
.





> This type of nitpicking just seems senseless, man.


Actually, I have no need to nitpick at all on matters that make sense, man.



ch1p said:


> There is a difference Sarahmint. A very crutial one. *Karin* and Ino didn't love Sasuke, while Sakura loved him genuinely.
> 
> 
> .


On Ino I agree it was crush for the looks "and Sai it's the proof YUUUCK" but on Karin I have to disagree. She was the woman that Sasuke had the most development and interaction during part 2. So how come Karin didnt love him, yet she brought out her mega chakra chains and  single handle brought down that colossal thing that the entire alliance couldnt even scratch, she went to the brink of hell for him, like in kill bill.

What did Sakura ever do for sausage besides thinking on him and squirming like a 13 year old teenager? To me that seems more like a crush than being in love.

Eitherway, if you really like SS no matter what then I wont debate about it to you because I know that I wont change your mind, I have seen many people that once used to be friends become antagonistic to each other and I am in no mood to do so with you.


----------



## jamse1 (Nov 21, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> Q: At the end of 699, Sasuke left the village and is depicted travelling, what was the intention of writing a conclusion like this?
> 
> Kishimoto: After he did all those things, I don?t think he could really live in the village as normal. So it?s his journey of atonement. Furthermore, in the story inside my head he?s also gone out to solve the questions that weren?t answered. For example, what exactly is Kaguya, the last boss in the manga. If they don?t find out where she came from the same things could happen again, so the journey is sort of to prevent that as well. But if I explain these things at length people will think the manga might carry on even further so I skipped writing about it. Because I don?t have any plans to continue those storylines.



Oh wow so Kishimoto didn't want to continue the storylines


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

PikaCheeka said:


> What the fuck this has over 750 replies?
> 
> Anyway I found the whole interview on Reddit. The person who posted it said it came from NF but I can't find it anywhere here (I'm not searching this whole thing and there's no main thread about it).
> 
> Does anyone know where the original post/thread is? Several parts have been translated on other sites so far beyond this one little section and it's pretty hilarious overall. I want to talk about the rest of it but am too lazy to make a thread.



Movie thread for The Last.


----------



## Mizura (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't know why people are using movie posters as canon material to 'prove' that Naruto never loved Sakura. Movie posters are just marketing materials, they can say whatever. It was the same with RtN.

Here's another Kishimoto interview:




> Yahagi-san told me to focus on the main character in the first two chapters. And then to use chapter 3 onward to establish the rival and heroine and *create a love-triangle relationship between the characters*. I'm not good with female characters, so I wasn't planning on this initially. But once I established the triangle, it became a lot easier to create the chapters after that. I was surprised by how good that advice was.


It Was meant to be a love-triangle from the start. Naruto got over it, but that doesn't mean he never liked Sakura (sure it was a crush, that was true of all the other relationships though).

And wasn't the correct translation for the movie poster, not "first love", but "love starts"? Since Naruto has never been in a romantic relationship before, yes, a love relationship 'started' at that point.


----------



## santanico (Nov 21, 2014)

Punk Zebra said:


> As if Sakura ain't terrible already Kishi.
> 
> Although I'm a NaruHina shipper, the perfect time for Sakura to switch over to Naruto would have been around the time when Naruto attacked her by accident in Kyuubi form.



yeah around the beginning of shippuden would've been the best time. But Kishi decided to stick to his original plan


----------



## PikaCheeka (Nov 21, 2014)

Zef said:


> Movie thread for The Last.



Even though half of it's not even about The Last? Ugh.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Original Source:


----------



## emachina (Nov 21, 2014)

If I were Kishi I would have answered the question like this:
Interviewer: "When did you decide on Hinata"?
Kishi: "Some time ago. I flipped a coin. She won".

The fallout on all sides would be epic. The amount of people who have such an unhealthy fixation on these couples is quite scary. Sure I'm glad my ship sailed. But if it didn't, I know for damn sure I wouldn't be so pissed as to be bitching about it two weeks later. Or wanting Naruto to be a cheating, child abusing, alcoholic so I could hold onto hope my ship will sail later.


----------



## Arthas (Nov 21, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I really hate how so many NaruHina and SasuSakur fans are trying to deflect people moral outrage by just calling them irate about the pairings. I mean do people really not understand how fucked up the message of the SS pairing is, it's literally so fucked up that everyone should be agreeing that it's fucked up and it's actually mind baffling that so many are trying to undercut this.



Agreed.

I am not really a fan of any pairing in the manga but I am very much anti-SasuSaku and dislike SasuKarin for the same reason.

Heck, I'd have preferred if chapter 700 had Sasuke with Tenten, Samui or even that Earth Kage's grand daughter simply because at least with them I could pretend the relationship dynamics were actually positive and had developed during the timeskip.


----------



## Raniero (Nov 21, 2014)

Suigetsu said:


> Yeah I forgot that is what it matter, that is cannon. Even if it retcons the shit out of everything. But it doesnt matter cause of MUH CANON..


God, do you even know what a fucking retcon is?


----------



## Arthas (Nov 21, 2014)

ch1p said:


> I accept Kakashi and Sasuke, Sasuke and Sakura, Itachi and Sasuke, Hashirama and Madara, all have legitimate relationships because they drew a line at some point. One of them said 'it's enough'. It doesn't matter if they didn't manage to break bonds or that they didn't go through with this or any other technicality, the fact that they drew that line was important. They're real, as far as this manga goes.
> 
> I can't say the same for Sasuke and Naruto, so I feel like Kishi fumbled the ball. I understand what he wanted to do (and this new interview where he says their relationship is like his with his twin brother), but tbh he ruined them by doing that. Like Kishi himself admitted on another interview, they act like two lunatics, and that's what makes it unlikable for me. They're fake.



Really, really agreed till here.



> The point is though, there's a 30 page complaining about pairings, in a sea of threads complaining about pairings. I don't see a single one bashing Naruto and Sasuke in the library's front page. When they are guilty of so much more bulshit in every front. It's both more "abusive" (whatever that means) and unbelievable.
> 
> So no, I'm sorry. I don't really believe that the grand majority of people complaining here have legitimate concerns. They have butthurt or personal vendettas pushing them instead.



Ch1p, the main reason why you don't see a thirty page thread on this is because all the complaining about the Naru / Sasu relationship? Well it already happened.

It happened after the Sai arc, it happened after the Naruto hyperventilating bit, practically most of part two has had threads complaining about this "relationship".

Granted I don't recall thirty page threads but I do recall multiple smaller threads which had the same effect.

Another reason for the lack of big thread on this was simply because practically everyone agreed that the NaruSasu dynamic was toxic with a few accepting (but not really liking) it as a NaruJesus characteristic.

For SasuSaku? The thread is bigger because it's not just raising one point but is also bringing up the NH, NS dynamics into it as well.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)

Arthas said:


> Ch1p, the main reason why you don't see a thirty page thread on this is because all the complaining about the Naru / Sasu relationship? Well it already happened.
> 
> It happened after the Sai arc, it happened after the Naruto hyperventilating bit, practically most of part two has had threads complaining about this "relationship".
> 
> ...



I've been here for this long, in fact before (my join date is deceiving) and I'm sorry, but I don't remember. None of the recent ?you're my friend? threads reached this long nor were they so brought up over and over again.



Suigetsu said:


> On Ino I agree it was crush for the looks "and Sai it's the proof YUUUCK" but on Karin I have to disagree. She was the woman that Sasuke had the most development and interaction during part 2. So how come Karin didnt love him, yet she brought out her mega chakra chains and  single handle brought down that colossal thing that the entire alliance couldnt even scratch, she went to the brink of hell for him, like in kill bill.
> 
> What did Sakura ever do for sausage besides thinking on him and squirming like a 13 year old teenager? To me that seems more like a crush than being in love.
> 
> Eitherway, if you really like SS no matter what then I wont debate about it to you because I know that I wont change your mind, I have seen many people that once used to be friends become antagonistic to each other and I am in no mood to do so with you.



Karin never loved him. There is not a single panel where it shows she loved him. She wanted to lick him all over and that's pretty much it. She never cared about his well being besides whether he was alive or dead. In that, she's no different from Ino, that you acnowledge never loved him.

Sasuke never had development with KArin either. She was a tool when he got her into Taka and she was a tool when he discarded. From beginning to end, he only ever cared to listen to her when she was doing her GPS shtick and sometimes he told her to STFU about it. The only moment he gave her some importance outside of her skills was when he remembered team 7.

Nah, I won't become angry or naything, no worries.


----------



## Mizura (Nov 21, 2014)

Zef said:


> Original Source:


Interesting. According to some of the Chinese translations in there, making a love-themed movie was the anime team's idea. Kishimoto thought it was a good idea though after listening to their proposal.



> 记者：和以“友情”为主题的原作相对、12月份上映的剧场版一转变为以“恋爱”为主题的故事呢。
> 岸本：以“恋爱”为主题是的主意是动画制作方出的。因为就我个人而言“如果没有好的主意还是不要做剧场版的好”，但是听了这个提案的瞬间、觉得这个“主意不错”。在漫画李只有战斗的描写而恋爱基本上没有任何的描写，也包含着那样的补充的意思、也想剧场版中刻画一下鸣人恋爱方面的成长、这样的想法一下子就膨胀开来了。


Since it's not translated directly from the Japanese, we'll need a more direct translation.



> 记者：就岸本老师而言，和在剧场版的制作中起到了什么作业呢。
> 岸本：最初找和谈话的时候，实际上脚本的初稿已经完成了。我只是在这上面让他们做了修改精益求精而已。但是因为感受到以脚本家为首的、剧场版制作人员那份对于鸣人的恋爱的那份热情，我也不禁被这份热情给感染、不知觉间就让他们做了无数次修改、连一个很小的细节都不放过。


Oh and this part says that when they went to find him, the first draft of the script was already done. He just had to fix things.


----------



## Suit (Nov 21, 2014)

Suigetsu said:


> Well so Naruto really is the first WSJ character that doesnt get the girl that he wants.
> 
> And no... Hinata doesnt count because she is needing a fucking movie. I guess both Naruto and Sakura where to selfless.



Can you even attempt to hide your salt? I mean shit, come on now. Stop this. I'm at the point where I just feel sorry for you now. I can't even bring myself to gloat anymore. If it makes you feel better to think that NS had just as much of a chance and that it was pure dumb luck that NH won, then think that. Just stop with these petty comments. Please. It's literally sad to read them.


----------



## Darkhope (Nov 21, 2014)

Suigetsu said:


> Well so Naruto really is the first WSJ character that doesnt get the girl that he wants.
> 
> And no... Hinata doesnt count because she is needing a fucking movie. I guess both Naruto and Sakura where to selfless.



You completely misread the interview.

For the record, regarding THIS image:



The main title of the section says 「ナルト、初めての恋をする」

ナルト
Naruto

初めて
For the first time [hajimete] 

の
Of [no]

恋をする
To fall in love [koi wo suru]

_Literal:_ Naruto, for the first time of falling in love

_Proper:_ *“Naruto, for the first time falls in love”* or *"Naruto, [to] falls in love for the first time"*

*The kanji for love [恋 - koi] is in red text.

This is a first real love for Naruto. *Sakura was never a real love*, as  that was retweeted by the official naruto movie twitter (and posted on the official facebook page) claims as well. Hence all the “LOVE FOR THE FIRST TIME” and “THE LAST STORY OF UZUMAKI NARUTO IS LOVE” they are slapping in our faces. I mean, it was always pretty obvious considering Naruto’s feelings for Sakura in the manga were never developed much and played as a joke most of the time.  The film will depict the process of Naruto falling in love with Hinata.



Mizura said:


> I don't know why people are using movie posters as canon material to 'prove' that Naruto never loved Sakura. Movie posters are just marketing materials, they can say whatever. It was the same with RtN.



It's in the manga too.  The movie ads just enforce it.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

More:


----------



## Mizura (Nov 21, 2014)

Darkhope:
[sp][/sp]
It was meant to be a love triangle from the start, by Design.

On the other hand, it seems the movie:
- Was written by the animation team
- Only had Kishimoto approving it and tweaking 
- Kishimoto originally intended for a DB-style "N years later" conclusion
- He decided on NaruHina quite a while ago, but the kids were apparently added on later

We need a direct Japanese -> English translation to confirm, but that's what the Chinese translations of his interviews are saying.


----------



## Raniero (Nov 21, 2014)

Just because it's called a "love triangle" doesn't necessarily mean he _loved _ Sakura.


----------



## TRN (Nov 21, 2014)

Raniero said:


> Just because it's called a "love triangle" doesn't necessarily mean he _loved _ Sakura.



Mizura with the selected reading


----------



## Zynn (Nov 21, 2014)

Ehh, crush is still a form of love, albeit weak, frail, and largely caused by superficial reasons. Hinata, though, now that's a life partner to the end of the line type of love.


----------



## Mizura (Nov 21, 2014)

Right, right, I guess 'love triangle' must have referred to Naruto -> Sasuke -> Sakura then. 

Yes, it was just a crush back then, but those still count as romantic feelings. The editors wanted Kishimoto to write and milk a romantic triangle relationship. Not hard to understand.

Well, enjoy basing your arguments on the marketing materials for a movie not-written by Kishimoto then.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

Does that even matter now?


----------



## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)

Raniero said:


> Just because it's called a "love triangle" doesn't necessarily mean he _loved _ Sakura.



This. It was always a crush.

The fact that Naruto's feelings were never serious is supported by the manga hardly ever taking them seriously. Furthermore, they had no resolution, while SS / NH had them.



Mizura said:


> Well, enjoy basing your arguments on the marketing materials for a movie not-written by Kishimoto then.



Excuse me?

You were supporting the merchandise comment 'Naruto only falls for Hinata after two years' as ruining NaruHina's development. So why are you dismissing that the same merchandise when it says that 'Naruto never loved Sakura, only had light feelings for her'?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you accept both or you accept neither.


----------



## Raniero (Nov 21, 2014)

Mizura said:


> Right, right, I guess 'love triangle' must have referred to Naruto -> Sasuke -> Sakura then.
> 
> Yes, it was just a crush back then, but those still count as romantic feelings. The editors wanted Kishimoto to write and milk a romantic relationship. Not hard to understand.
> 
> Well, enjoy basing your arguments on the marketing materials for a movie not-written by Kishimoto then.


ffs I don't think anybody with a brain _ever _ denied Naruto had feelings for Sakura.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 21, 2014)

It's Naruto.  Crush and love are the same thing


----------



## Mizura (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Does that even matter now?


I stopped shipping in Naruto like, half a decade ago (found much better series to ship in), and I've pretty much accepted that:
- Kishimoto probably planned NaruHina long ago. If you look at the end of Part I, it made sense that he had that in mind.
- At some points, Kishimoto may have entertained the idea of NaruSaku, but killed that off soon enough.

Still, it's silly to claim that Kishimoto and his editors never wanted to milk a potential love triangle or two. Team 7 was created, by design, to be a love triangle. It's just one of those formula things that Kishimoto's editors made him stuff into the series for $$.

Naruto had a crush on Sakura, he eventually moved on, and he eventually fell in love with Hinata.
That's clear.

But I don't see why people are arguing the first part based on marketing materials from a movie not-written by Kishimoto. 



ChickenPotPie said:


> It's Naruto. Crush and love are the same thing


This. All the relationships in Naruto started out as one-sided crushes.


----------



## Zynn (Nov 21, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> It's Naruto.  Crush and love are the same thing




A large number of posts in this thread would like to argue that point.


----------



## Raniero (Nov 21, 2014)

Mizura said:


> I don't see why people are arguing the first part based on marketing materials from a movie not-written by Kishimoto.


Can you not read?



			
				ChickenPotPie said:
			
		

> It's Naruto. Crush and love are the same thing


Not this stupid shit again


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 21, 2014)

Zynn said:


> A large number of posts in this thread would like to argue that point.



It should be argued that Naruto is being given more complex feelings and introspection because the movie demands it, rather than argue about something (love) in the manga that wasn't the focus in the first place


----------



## TRN (Nov 21, 2014)

Raniero said:


> Can you not read?



Apparently he can't


----------



## Zynn (Nov 21, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> It should be argued that Naruto is being given more complex feelings and introspection because the movie demands it, rather than argue about something (love) in the manga that wasn't the focus in the first place



A-re? You mean his introspection on the turtle island is not complex enough?


----------



## Mizura (Nov 21, 2014)

If you're talking about this:


This was stuff created for the movie.

Now this:

*Spoiler*: __ 







... apparently says that the movie was the animation team's idea. Though, we do need a direct translation.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 21, 2014)

Zynn said:


> A-re? You mean his introspection on the turtle island is not complex enough?



Regarding love only.  You have Kakashi saying love doesn't need a reason only hatred does.  Naruto relationships in the manga aren't that complicated.


----------



## Zynn (Nov 21, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> Regarding love only.  You have Kakashi saying love doesn't need a reason only hatred does.  Naruto relationships in the manga aren't that complicated.



Nahh, after this whole fiasco I'm rather joyed of how Kishi's decided to wash his hands off the whole romance, and just entrust it to others who's more experienced/have more expertise on the matter. Can't really blame him, you know, considering how pathetic Kishi can be when handling his romance.


----------



## Azaleia (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm half sleep so the only thing I can't manage to say is that 

- The idea of a movie bassed on "The first Love" was from the anime team.
- This makes sense since Kishi already said he's embarrased with all the love thing (I can see the word hazukashii/embarrased).
- So he said "Ah that's a good idea" and then BAM , THELAST was created.

In the end, if it wasn't for the anime team we couldn't even get a glimpse of the NaruHina relationship, just manga? Wow.


----------



## Kishido (Nov 21, 2014)

It's not that Sakura is still a terrible woman


----------



## Kurama (Nov 21, 2014)

Azaleia said:


> I'm half sleep so the only thing I can't manage to say is that
> 
> - The idea of a movie bassed on "The first Love" was from the anime team.
> - This makes sense since Kishi already said he's embarrased with all the love thing (I can see the word hazukashii/embarrased).
> ...



If the whole "its the anime teams idea" is true it only means Kishi approved and decided to make it an extension of the manga where he could give NH sufficient focus and left the romance to more capable hands. Regardless its still canon and Kishi approved so trynna flip it into RtN level is pointless.

And Mizura, ChickenPotPie, should have been pretty damn clear that theres a bigass difference between the crush Naruto never really nurtured and that was basically tacked on to spice up Team 7 interaction/ the SasNar rivalry in the beginning with that poor excuse of a "love triangle" and the actual romantic love that Sakura and Hinata actually developed in the story. By clinging to "crush is a form of love/crush and love are the same" you're trivializing the endurance and struggle both girls have gone through in the name of their love for their respective jerkass/idiot putting it level with shit like Naruto transforming into Sasuke to find out what Sakura thinks of him just to hear something he doesnt like then proceed to ignore what she just said she disliked about him and then proceeding to not even take further notice of her significantly until she's begging him to bring Sasuke back. Sakura's hugging CS Sasuke and Hinata's Proud Failure speech alone boost them far beyond that bullshit.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Their world is a lot more simple and far less brutal than our own





They-train -child-soldiers-and have been living in constant bloody wars since the foundation of the village, preempively  ethnic  cleanse a whole clan and let a branch of another mind control the younger  . You?re mixing the gore one can show in the  genre with the despiction of their world.




> . Brutality does not invalidate the concepts of morality held.



Brutality is is the justification the autor does to justify the rather curious morality of the  ninja wold, The one Messiah Naruto comes to change. Even if the anti christ ends his naration saying it wont be easy.They-sepnd-half of part 2 saying the system is rotten to the core.


----------



## Darkhope (Nov 21, 2014)

Mizura said:


> Darkhope:
> 
> It was meant to be a love triangle from the start, by Design.
> 
> ...



Mizura, in the page you just showed me it basically says that Sasuke and Sakura were an after thought and Kishi originally did not plan that love triangle.  It was his editor's idea.  Not only that, but I do remember him saying in an old interview as well that Sasuke and Sakura were his editor's idea also (to create a rival and heroine).  Ironically, that's not even the case with Hinata.  

The animators may have _suggested_ the romance theme of the movie because I do recall seeing a Japanese ad for that.  But that doesn't make a difference, because Kishi confirmed the movie as canon (or as canon as it can be). takL and others have said that Kishi is heavily involved in this movie, more so than the rest. Also because yes, NaruHina is canon in the manga and has been Kishi's intention for a long time now.  According to Hexa, Kishimoto gained the title of "script supervisor" for The Last. Looking at the credits for RtN, it doesn't seem like he had that title.






“I will continue creating manga,” he said. “I will release extra ‘Naruto’ episodes next spring.” 

“The latest film is a love story,” Kishimoto said. “It will depict what happened between the 699th and 700th manga episodes. I designed the characters and helped make the story.”



The Last is treated as chapter 699.5.  

There's a limit on how much you can actually market something before it becomes so in your face you can't get away from it or deny it.  The whole "love for the first time/a first love" is emphasized _alot_.  A slogan was never emphasized this much before.  Looking at the manga, Naruto hasn't chased Sakura romantically since before Pein (which is ironically what Kishi's assistant tweeted before the finale was released).  And even before that, he had a crush.  His feelings were always a simple "suki".  What this movie is conveying is that Naruto is actually going to fall in love this time.  It's more than what he ever felt for Sakura (on a whole different level), is what they are saying.



Mizura said:


> Well, enjoy basing your arguments on the marketing materials for a movie not-written by Kishimoto then.



You're being selective on what to support and what not to support when it comes to merchandise... Either way, this merchandise does not contradict the manga.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

Hitt said:


> It also continues to reinforce the idea that kishi is a hack writer of the lowest caliber.  If all of this is planned, why was it developed SO terribly?  Why was NH never reciprocated, or even TOUCHED upon by Naruto?  Why was Sasuke treating Sakura utterly harshly until the very end, even trying to kill her?



A couple of reasons probably

- Kishi not being good with romance.

- Not caring enough about it since romance is just a subplot and he didn't need to develop it...

- ....but cared enough to include plenty of tease to play with shippers minds. Maybe he just loves teasing or maybe it was an outright trolling. Guess it depends on how one views it.

-  Wasn't 100% decided on which one would be canon and kept them all as one sided as possible so that he could always have a way out.

- He realized that shippings sells and so decided to milk the romance resolution as long as he could. That is to the very VERY end.

- As for Sasuke being a jerk to Sakura, Kishi generally did handle Sasuke quite poorly after the Itachi fight making Sasuke into a full fledged psycho apparently for the sake of drama. Angst sells good too. And since SasuNaru bond is the core of this manga he couldn't leave it for Sakura's love to save Sasuke instead.

Oh well...what a mess.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> ladyGt drew a fanart of alcoholic broken man Naruto, there is nothing lower than that tbh.
> 
> A girl made up a long ass theory on how the ending was genjutsu and how Himawari was actually Lee's daughter.
> 
> Traumatic shit, really.



"This is not meeeee"-
I really love the alcoholic abusive dad Nardo pic since I discovered it hosted in an Spanish site. That?s the kind of soap accepted as consolation headcanon.

Along with the pre- cheat  fan fics.

Yes-one  month or two ago ago it was said here that if the narsak was made canon the amount of salt would cover the hymalayas.
It was wrong.This meltdown is becoming a legend.It?s in fulll Spanish-from Spain- style.

PENA PENITA PENAAAAAA, PENAAAAA
PENA DE MI CORASOOOOOOOOON


----------



## Mizura (Nov 21, 2014)

*sigh* We're arguing rhetorics. 



Darkhope said:


> You're being selective on what to support and what not to support when it comes to merchandise... Either way, this merchandise does not contradict the manga.


Kishimoto interview = canon.
Merchandise = not canon. Besides, the ads also imply that Naruto only became aware of Hinata's feelings 2 years later, which is ridiculous no matter how you look at it.
RtN merchandise implied all sorts of things too that turned out to be not-so-accurate.

Also:


takL said:


> here we go again.
> 
> first love is 初恋/初めての恋 in jp but it says 初めての愛
> it can mean "love for the first time" "newfound love" or "first love".
> ...





takL said:


> "the main poster for the movie version "THE LAST -NARUTO THE MOVIE-" is released!! narutos red muffler and Hinata in profile!? the catchphrase(=movie blurb)* is also worthy of note!" -K @publicity (department) #movie version
> 
> *"the last movie is the love for the first time"


The movie poster doesn't say that Hinata is Naruto's first love (初恋/初めての恋). It says other things that can be interpreted in various ways. In particular, this is the first time that Naruto actualy finds himself in a romantic Relationship, so it could easily refer to that.

And what's this about trivialising Hinata and Sakura's feelings? A lot of people did a lot for Naruto, and vice-versa. Strong feelings accomplished a lot in this manga, but romantic love arguably accomplished the least. Did Sakura's love bring back Sasuke? No, Naruto's friendship did. Did Hinata's love save Naruto from Pain? Heck no, his parents' love did. Did she protect him from that tree? No, Neji did. She talked some sense into him after that, but that's not a romantic gesture. :\

And yes, the editors are the ones who forced Kishimoto to write Sakura. But he did write it by himself, and he did so according to their guidelines, which is as a component of a love triangle.


----------



## Pirao (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Needless to say, Kishi has one twisted perception of women.



No kidding.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Mizura said:


> Right, right, I guess 'love triangle' must have referred to Naruto -> Sasuke -> Sakura then.
> 
> Yes, it was just a crush back then, but those still count as romantic feelings. The editors wanted Kishimoto to write and milk a romantic triangle relationship. Not hard to understand.
> 
> Well, enjoy basing your arguments on the marketing materials for a movie not-written by Kishimoto then.



Where were you when takL said Kishimoto made constent corrections on the anime team's script after the gave them the original draft ?
I can tell you from the original japanese text, that Kishi did the outline for the movie.


----------



## Revolution (Nov 21, 2014)

ch1p said:


> The only moment he gave her some importance outside of her skills was when he remembered team 7.
> 
> Nah, I won't become angry or naything, no worries.



That was a parallel.  The whole point of that scene was to parallel Taka with Team 7


----------



## Jυstin (Nov 21, 2014)

Sadly with the way Kishi ended things, pairings are apparently the only topics of quality worth discussing anymore.

41 pages within 24 hours is a little ridiculous.

Kishi actually made a good profit call ending the series with pairings. Look at how it gets gobbled up. Not a good literary call, but it sells.



Gwynbleidd said:


> Ahhh, moving on from a mistreating and ungrateful piece of trash is what it's considered hineous. How far we have come.



Koyomi Araragi reference in a pairings thread? How did I miss this?

I love you.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

Revolution said:


> That was a parallel.  The whole point of that scene was to parallel Taka with Team 7



More like the distorted mirror you put in a fair.
That was Team Tool?s  fate, to the the reflection of the real thing.

Look where they ended-in a Rock Lee-like parody manga versi?n.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't have time to translate all this interview.
According to takL, Kishimoto changed a shitload of stuff the anime team did for the movie.
He did create the outline for the movie.


----------



## Kusa (Nov 21, 2014)

Because he can't write romance this thread has so many pages. If he did a good job with  it most people would share the same opinion about the pairing results(that it was good) and there would be less to discuss about.


----------



## DemonBorn4569 (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm boycotting the movie and next manga unless we get a universe where SakuHina happens and NaruSasu get to watch.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yeah, let's bitch. It will make things better !


----------



## Jυstin (Nov 21, 2014)

DemonBorn4569 said:


> I'm boycotting the movie and next manga unless we get a universe where SakuHina happens and NaruSasu get to watch.


----------



## Zynn (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Yeah, let's bitch. It will make things better !



Eh, they gotta find release somehow. Just let em. 'Sides, it's kinda amusing to watch.


----------



## Haruka Katana (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> I don't have time to translate all this interview.
> According to takL, Kishimoto changed a shitload of stuff the anime team did for the movie.
> He did create the outline for the movie.



I find this hilarious, and well the anime team is pretty bad most of the time anyway. So it's a good thing.

SP:Hey Kishi, here's the draft of our-
Kishi:REJECTED


----------



## Kusa (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Yeah, let's bitch. It will make things better !



Not sure if you were refering to my post or not, but if you did i never implied this would be better.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Badalight said:


> Zef's posts in this thread are truly mind boggling.



Yes, my posts are that good. 



> I wonder if any SasukexSakura fans have ever had a single moment of intimacy in their lives.


Do you have any idea how many SS fans there are?



> Pairings are the last things I care about in Naruto FYI, and I really don't care who ended up with who, but to call the SS pairing anything but terrible writing is simply wrong.



Apparently opinions are wrong now... Define wrong, and tell me who/what determines said wrong.


----------



## Kait0 (Nov 21, 2014)

There is no wrong so long as there is idealism and opinion.  The series had it's problems, but it was entertaining enough to grasp my attentions and interests; and lets be real, it's no worse than some of that garbage on television.  Just lasted too long without answering enough of it's underlying questions.

Character couples aside, of course.  That wasn't the focus of the plot.  That said, interested seeing what happens going forward.  With the series not being about romance, it should be interesting to see how they mesh and interact with the main style of the series.


----------



## izzyisozaki (Nov 21, 2014)

ch1p said:


> There is a difference Sarahmint. A very crutial one. Karin and Ino didn't love Sasuke, while Sakura loved him genuinely.






And where was this written in the manga? Oh right, it's not.


----------



## Gino (Nov 21, 2014)

In all honestly sakura/sasuke is a terrible relationship no matter how you look at it.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Gino said:


> In all honestly sakura/sasuke is a terrible relationship no matter how you look at it.



It's a good thing then that they only entered a relationship after Sasuke was redeemed.


----------



## Gino (Nov 21, 2014)

Still doesn't undue 600+ chapters of damage.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Gino said:


> Still doesn't undue 600+ chapters of damage.



600+ chapters of damage to a bond between friends. Not a relationship between lovers


----------



## Gino (Nov 21, 2014)

So we are we going with this because we're obviously not going to agree.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

I never knew we were having a debate. I was just chatting


----------



## SLB (Nov 21, 2014)

Badalight said:


> Zef's posts in this thread are truly mind boggling.
> 
> I wonder if any SasukexSakura fans have ever had a single moment of intimacy in their lives.
> 
> Pairings are the last things I care about in Naruto FYI, and I really don't care who ended up with who, but to call the SS pairing anything but terrible writing is simply wrong.



sasusaku is just a perpetual cycle of self insertion and delusion


----------



## Gino (Nov 21, 2014)

Zef said:


> I never knew we were having a debate. I was just chatting






Phew! crisis averted then.


Moody I'll wreck your shit.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> And where was this written in the manga? Oh right, it's not.



La leche!-Dont tell me now that Kishi chose the wrong beard!


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Hey guys, I have another one on Naruto & Sasuke near door !!!


----------



## Tangle (Nov 21, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> And where was this written in the manga? Oh right, it's not.



did you really need the obvious spelled out or


----------



## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> I don't have time to translate all this interview.
> According to takL, Kishimoto changed a shitload of stuff the anime team did for the movie.
> He did create the outline for the movie.



**gasp**

What are you saying???? You're saying that the anime team has no grasp of characters and relationships that Kishi felt the need to change a shitload of stuff the anime team did for the movie?

*Who'd thought???*

I'm completely speechless.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 21, 2014)

I had no idea that Naruto pairings were this popular of a subject until fairly recently. The more you care about such an issue, the less shounen probably appeals to you.

I won't say that Sasuke and Sakura is necessarily a _good _pairing (wtf is a good pairing?), but it isn't particularly uncommon, even in the real world. I also don't believe that Sasuke will harm Sakura anymore and probably goes out of his way to atone for his treatment of her.

However, I am glad Kishimoto didn't go 100% in the other direction and show Sasuke as a henpecked husband.


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

Kish "ive decided on hinata (to be narutos lady)  since quite a long time ago. There was a time when i wondered if i should pick sakura (for the role) but now  sakura would be too thick as a  woman if she had a change of heart to give it to Naruto at this stage of the game (lol). plus actually sakura is always devoted to sasuke after all, I think."

from entermix january 2015 issue .


----------



## hokage5522 (Nov 21, 2014)

I think kish wrote sakura into a corner he couldnt get out of. I am alright with the sasusaku pairing due to the enormous amount of time kish wrote about sakura feelings for sasuke. I think it would have been a bit hard to accept sakura turning on a dime and falling for naruto, moreover it would have just felt out of place to me. I think kish look at the pairing overall and said " hey i came all this way with sakura wanting sasuke best to stick to it. i think in the end it was best, even if the pairing itself is hard to accept for many fans ( the whole trying to kill sakura bit)


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 21, 2014)

[sp][/sp]
This is probably the best translation you can find, really. From our best translator from H&E, among several japanese natives, who has already conceded defeat.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 21, 2014)

^ takL also confirmed it.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> [sp][/sp]
> This is probably the best translation you can find, really. From our best translator from H&E, among several japanese natives, who has already conceded defeat.



What are the reactions on your side of the fandom ?


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 21, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> ^ takL also confirmed it.


It's really strange how those two translations are very different.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Well, takL is a natural speaker.

But the overall meaning stay the same.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

AeroNin said:


> [sp][/sp]
> 
> Hahaha
> 
> Also it seems Kishi is done with Naruto for good at the end of next summer.




no, it would not make her a "terrible woman"
in fact, it won't make her a terrible person, kishimoto


----------



## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> What are the reactions on your side of the fandom ?



Asking why Kishi's wife married him (usually the $$$ is used), wondering whether she'll divorce him, tw: feminism and tw: abuse. They don't really understand this is interview version of the fake confession.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 21, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> It's really strange how those two translations are very different.



Actually they are pretty much the same thing.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

kishimoto sickens me 
so what, sakura can't change her mind, but sasuke can at the flick of a page?
this double hypocrisy...


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Well, takL is a natural speaker.
> 
> But the overall meaning stay the same.


One means that if Sakura would change towards Naruto during the Kage Summit arc she would be too stupid as a woman, the other means that if she had changed to Naruto she would be a terrible/awful woman.

It's different...


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

he ruined sakura 
he fucking ruined her character through sasuke, who can do whatever the fuck he wants like going from killing danzo, wanting to crush the leaf, wanting to become the hokage, and then fucking leaving the village to travel around the world. 
what the fuck


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 21, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> One means that if Sakura would change towards Naruto during the Kage Summit arc she would be a stupid woman, the other means that if she had changed to Naruto she would be a terrible woman.
> 
> It's different...



Both means her change would be sudden and would make her look like a gold digger.

Nothing more nothing less.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

Regardless of how we view Kishi's writing(good or awful) and whether we approve or hold contempt for his moral messages, the dude deserves credit for getting so many people obsessed over pairings in a manga that isn't even focused on them as it is just a minor subplot.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> kishimoto sickens me
> so what, sakura can't change her mind, but sasuke can at the flick of a page?
> this double hypocrisy...


The interview went right over your head as well. ...


Selina Kyle said:


> he ruined sakura
> he fucking ruined her character through sasuke, who can do whatever the fuck he wants like going from killing danzo, wanting to crush the leaf, wanting to become the hokage, and then fucking leaving the village to travel around the world.
> what the fuck


What the hell are you raging about?


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

ch1p said:


> **gasp**
> 
> What are you saying???? You're saying that the anime team has no grasp of characters and relationships that Kishi felt the need to change a shitload of stuff the anime team did for the movie?
> 
> ...



more like their publicist has...

well kish  says  the idea to have 'love' as the theme of the movie came from the anime production's side.  an initial draft was already done by then.
and he used it as a springboard and goosed it up via many modification requests even to the minutest details.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

in the end, all that sakura was supposed to be was her abuser's housekeeper 
and have some mental illness/obsession about her abuser 
great development there, kishi 
fantastic


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> he ruined sakura
> he fucking ruined her character through sasuke, who can do whatever the fuck he wants like going from killing danzo, wanting to crush the leaf, wanting to become the hokage, and then fucking leaving the village to travel around the world.
> what the fuck



I really don't know what you were expecting .


----------



## Revolution (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> Kish "ive decided on hinata (to be narutos lady)  since quite a long time ago. There was a time when i wondered if i should pick sakura (for the role) but now  sakura would be too thick as a  woman if she had a change of heart to give it to Naruto at this stage of the game (lol). plus actually sakura is always devoted to sasuke after all, I think."
> 
> from entermix january 2015 issue .



Thank you.  Better translation.  Kishi still said "... as a woman" so I'm still suspicious, but whatever.  Better reason that her character was always pulled towards Sasuke.

Still believe Sasuke should have only appalogized to Sakura "for hurting you" because he was right to oppose injustice.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> I really don't know what you were expecting : geg.



me neither 
there was this tiny part of me that wanted to see sakura redeem herself
because if sasuke can, why not sakura?
but no, kishi's all, 'dem wymen must know dem places.' 

just... fuck.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> in the end, all that sakura was supposed to be was her abuser's housekeeper
> and have some mental illness/obsession about her abuser
> great development there, kishi
> fantastic



You realize Kishi can't read this right?


----------



## Revolution (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> kishimoto sickens me
> so what, sakura can't change her mind, but sasuke can at the flick of a page?
> this double hypocrisy...



I know what you mean, but it's explained that Sasuke always loved Sakura back, but was too brainwashed by Itachi and Obito to do much with it.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Revolution said:


> I know what you mean, but it's explained that Sasuke always loved Sakura back, but was too brainwashed by Itachi and Obito to do much with it.



where did this come from


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> Kish "ive decided on hinata (to be narutos lady)  since quite a long time ago. There was a time when i wondered if i should pick sakura (for the role) but now  sakura would be too thick as a  woman if she had a change of heart to give it to Naruto at this stage of the game (lol). plus actually sakura is always devoted to sasuke after all, I think."
> 
> from entermix january 2015 issue .



So no mention or it implied in any way that Sakura gave up on Naruto for Hinata's sake?

Or that Sakura was "pragmatic" and chose Sasuke because she sympathized with him or something?


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> One means that if Sakura would change towards Naruto during the Kage Summit arc she would be too stupid as a woman, the other means that if she had changed to Naruto she would be a terrible/awful woman.
> 
> It's different...



during the Kage Summit arc? Kish didnt specify when.
ur translator skipped the bit "ここに来て now at this stage/after coming this far"


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

"you're a terrible woman for loving someone else other than sasuke now." 
what the fuck. 
this mindset is sickeningly unhealthy.


----------



## Revolution (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> where did this come from



The SasuSaku elitists because they know everything


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Revolution said:


> The SasuSaku elitists because they know everything



and i repeat:



Selina Kyle said:


> "you're a terrible woman for loving someone else other than sasuke now."
> what the fuck.
> this mindset is sickeningly unhealthy.



also,


----------



## Dillinger (Nov 21, 2014)

This shit is as atrocious as ever. I hope all women strive for the same absurd devotion Kishimoto portrays in his characters. That way I can do whatever I want as a man and have no worries(I AINT GOT NO WORRIES).

I would sooner watch Real Housewives then read anything else penned by Kishimoto.


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> So no mention or it implied in any way that Sakura gave up on Naruto for Hinata's sake?
> 
> Or that Sakura was "pragmatic" and chose Sasuke because she sympathized with him or something?
> 
> You missed quite the shitstorm here yesterday



yeah i was busy yesterday. what was the shitstorm about? 

and no kish says sakura has been in love with sasuke all along.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> during the Kage Summit arc? Kish didnt specify when.
> ur translator skipped the bit "ここに来て now at this stage/after coming this far"


It's really weird though.

If he had thought about choosing Sakura instead, if he didn't want Sakura looking like a gold digger all he had to do was not write a lot of the shit he did during the Kage Summit arc.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

kishi wrote this story for his kids too. 
so let's see... he's teaching his kids that it's okay for boys to go around doing whatever they want,
change their minds every second because it doesn't make him terrible for not going through his commitments, 
and that girls must strictly worship a boy she liked during her childhood because it makes her a "terrible woman" if she doesn't by the time she's nearly an adult. 
no matter how abusive/neglecting he was.

makes total sense kishi. 
your kids will definitely appreciate your moralistic approach to life. 

let that sink in for a sec.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> kishi wrote this story for his kids too.
> so let's see... he's teaching his kids that it's okay for boys to go around doing whatever they want,
> change their minds every second because it doesn't make him terrible for not going through his commitments,
> and that girls must strictly worship a boy she liked during her childhood because it makes her a "terrible woman" if she doesn't by the time she's nearly an adult.
> ...



Kishi wasn't married, nor had kids when Naruto started 



takL said:


> yeah i was busy yesterday. what was the shitstorm about?
> 
> and no kish says sakura has been in love with sasuke all along.




There's Saying Kishi sold himself to have a NaruHina ending. That he doesn't write the movie.
That Sakura shouldn't give up her love for Sasuke, but Naruto can because he's a man ... blah blah blah

That the only reasons NaruSaku didn't happen is because of his faulty outdated morality

Mostly out of context of course.

Bunch of feminists BS, really.


----------



## jamse1 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Kishi wasn't married, nor had kids when Naruto started



Exactly. That's when he started to change his manga after getting married.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Kishi wasn't married, nor had kids when Naruto started : hmm





> Even if I died someday, I want to leave a work in the world that would let my kids understand what I always wanted to tell them.







Yagami1211 said:


> There's Saying Kishi sold himself to have a NaruHina ending. That he doesn't write the movie.
> That Sakura shouldn't give up her love for Sasuke, but Naruto can because he's a man ... blah blah blah
> 
> That the only reasons NaruSaku didn't happen is because of his faulty outdated morality
> ...




what is this i don't even


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

News to me, but okay. I feel the message he was trying to write.

Anyway, since we're all happy now. How about a hug  ?


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm going to pose a question.  If Sasuke never made any attempts on Sakura's life specifically, but still committed everything else in the story as a missing nin, would that change your opinion of Sasusaku?


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> yeah i was busy yesterday. what was the shitstorm about?
> 
> and no kish says sakura has been in love with sasuke all along.



Interesting.

Nothing about Sakura being terrible if she changed Naruto's heart or Sakura's wavering feelings making her consider Naruto as a possible romance option?

Thanks a lot for all explanations man.

I do not care that much which ship is more right or wrong but it is nice to see a proper translation regarding the author's own stance on this stuff.

And that shitstorm was truly the ultimate Kishi bashing contest  with a bit of a translation war between fandoms


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> News to me, but okay. I feel the message he was trying to write.
> 
> Anyway, since we're all happy now. How about a hug : ) ?



how about no. 
you just put down women's rights by saying that it's bs and supporting kishi's "terrible woman" notion. 
nothing is out of context, minus some of the pairing fandom taking it up a notch. 
other than that, kishi supports imperialism, ultra-nationalism, sexism, and all that is hypocritical in our world. 

i'm not happy with how kishi handled his development regarding sakura and all the other female characters in this manga under the superficial facade of being "strong and beautiful."


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> how about no.
> you just put down women's rights by saying that it's bs and supporting kishi's "terrible woman" notion.
> nothing is out of context, minus some of the pairing fandom taking it up a notch.
> other than that, kishi supports imperialism, ultra-nationalism, sexism, and all that is hypocritical in our world.
> ...



Well, too bad, then


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

sakuras motto was 'my lifelong love' wasnt it?


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> sakuras motto was 'my lifelong love' wasnt it?



When was it said ? How do you write it ? ( This does seems familiar. )


----------



## Punk Zebra (Nov 21, 2014)

Revolution said:


> I know what you mean, but it's explained that Sasuke always loved Sakura back, but was too brainwashed by Itachi and Obito to do much with it.



Nope not true.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

this shit pairing that is ss...
how anyone could see that this is romantic is beyond me. 
sakura almost died for this fucking loser and all he does is fuck off like there's no tomorrow. 



Yagami1211 said:


> Well, too bad, then : (







Punk Zebra said:


> Nope not true.



revolution was just kidding btw.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> When was it said ? How do you write it ? ( This does seems familiar. )



databook 1. it made an appearance in chapter 319 years later.

一生愛の人生よ





takL said:


> more like their publicist has...
> 
> well kish  says  the idea to have 'love' as the theme of the movie came from the anime production's side.  an initial draft was already done by then.
> and he used it as a springboard and goosed it up via many modification requests even to the minutest details.



Again, on one hand, this gives me hope.  On the other hand, that synopsis and RtN. 



takL said:


> Kish "ive decided on hinata (to be narutos lady)  since quite a long time ago. There was a time when i wondered if i should pick sakura (for the role) but now  sakura would be too thick as a  woman if she had a change of heart to give it to Naruto at this stage of the game (lol). plus actually sakura is always devoted to sasuke after all, I think."
> 
> from entermix january 2015 issue .





takL said:


> during the Kage Summit arc? Kish didnt specify when.
> ur translator skipped the bit "ここに来て now at this stage/after coming this far"





takL said:


> yeah i was busy yesterday. what was the shitstorm about?
> 
> and no kish says sakura has been in love with sasuke all along.



Thanks.


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> When was it said ? How do you write it ? ( This does seems familiar. )



「一生愛の人生よ」in rin no sho  i think. oh i see chip beat me.

Kish is married with 2 children.
i hear that he met his wife when he went to the dentist as she was working for the dentist.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 21, 2014)

Guys.

It's done.

Calm down.

Take it to Anti FCs.

People are getting too overemotional about pairings here.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> Guys.
> 
> It's done.
> 
> ...



Why? This is about the story, and the library is here to discuss that. If you can't stand to see dissent, then why not follow your own advice?

I mean people are expressing their issue with the story at the end of the day as I stated, all you guys are doing is complaining about people doing something that is pertinent to the reason this section was made to begin with.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Arya Stark said:


> Guys.
> 
> It's done.
> 
> ...



you don't seem to realize that this isn't just about the pairings. 
it's about the characters and the plot.


----------



## Brian (Nov 21, 2014)

You should already know Kishimoto don't really consider female characters to be people

All of their goals revolve around males and if they are successful like Tsuna and Mei they are forever alone.

Why get upset over something said in an interview when you have an entire story that told you this.


----------



## Blu-ray (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> kishimoto sickens me
> so what, sakura can't change her mind, but sasuke can at the flick of a page?
> this double hypocrisy...



Is the flip flopping thing not the number one reason people consider Sasuke's character shit?

I thought most would be elated he spared her the same fate. It's less about her changing her mind, but doing it instantly after years of intense devotion to Sasuke specifically. You're only making things hard by taking the man's words out of context.



Selina Kyle said:


> he ruined sakura
> he fucking ruined her character through sasuke, who can do whatever the fuck he wants like going from killing danzo, wanting to crush the leaf, wanting to become the hokage, and then fucking leaving the village to travel around the world.
> what the fuck



They have a point in calling you butthurt over something like this.



Selina Kyle said:


> in the end, all that sakura was supposed to be was her abuser's housekeeper
> and have some mental illness/obsession about her abuser
> great development there, kishi
> fantastic



If only people didn't read abuse into the narrative, there would be far fewer headaches.



Selina Kyle said:


> me neither
> there was this tiny part of me that wanted to see sakura redeem herself
> because if sasuke can, why not sakura?
> but no, kishi's all, 'dem wymen must know dem places.'
> ...



Sasuke's a criminal. Sakura isn't guilty of anything. What is there to redeem?

Her only faults were being a useless, shallow, and inconsiderate bitch. She's now useful, no longer shallow, and is now considerate. What more could you want?


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

^ i'm not even sure if you're for or against ss
but it would make more sense if you're for ss



> Her only faults were being a useless, shallow, and inconsiderate bitch. She's now useful, no longer shallow, and is now considerate. What more could you want.



what a terrible thing to say for someone who ships ss.
no, wait... nvm. 
still terrible.


----------



## Elicit94 (Nov 21, 2014)

Brian said:


> You should already know Kishimoto don't really consider female characters to be people
> 
> All of their goals revolve around males and if they are successful like Tsuna and Mei they are forever alone.
> 
> Why get upset over something said in an interview when you have an entire story that told you this.



*Spoiler*: __ 








Yeah, more like almost every single female is more interested in love than ninjutsu!



Corvida said:


> Oh but it?s all in the name of  _expresing  criticism._.
> 
> The latest tirades against poor Kishi will go down to my hall of fame along with Eli?s ebola post.


Sakura will have a lot of nightmares.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> Is the flip flopping thing not the number one reason people consider Sasuke's character shit?
> 
> I thought most would be elated he spared her the same fate. It's less about her changing her mind, but doing it instantly after years of intense devotion to Sasuke specifically. You're only making things hard by taking the man's words out of context.



This ignoring the concept of standards entirely, and that the issue people had with Sakura included her obsession with Sasuke. As it ultimately did degrade her character. One, consistent change, which a moving on in a romantic sense from Sasuke would have been is not 'flip-flopping', that only shows you're not familiar with the meaning of the term.



> If only people didn't read abuse into the narrative, there would be far fewer headaches.



If only people didn't have functioning brains, then they couldn't see situations for what they are! Such woe.


----------



## HolyHands (Nov 21, 2014)

Criticism is perfectly fine.

But this thread went way beyond criticism and just straight into a series of one temper tantrum after another.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 21, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> Criticism is perfectly fine.
> 
> But this thread went way beyond criticism and just straight into a series of one temper tantrum after another.



Criticism is perfectly fine. As long as you're not criticizing our pairing or anything we like. YEAH!


----------



## Blu-ray (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> ^ i'm not even sure if you're for or against ss
> but it would make more sense if you're for ss
> 
> 
> ...



Context. She had her faults and she was redeemed. There is nothing more to want for her on the redemption side.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Normality said:


> Am I the only person who can hardly understand Corvida?



guilty is charged




VolatileSoul said:


> Context. She had her faults and she was redeemed. There is nothing more to want for her on the redemption side.



surely there was something else


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Would that suddenly render my criticism valid to you? I don't think it will, you're going on some arbitrary reasoning in an attempt to dismiss criticism as a whole.



sounds like a copout for uve never said anything poitive.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Nov 21, 2014)

I guess I'll ask my question again.  If Sasuke didn't assault Sakura in the story, but still did all the other dumb shit like attack Killer Bee, join Orochimaru, would you opinion regarding Sasusaku be the same?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> Criticism is perfectly fine.
> 
> But this thread went way beyond criticism and just straight into a series of one temper tantrum after another.



Honestly, I see most people making or attempting to make, valid points except the SasuSaku fans. As I predicted they've tried to flame the shit out of most anyone that doesn't like their little pairing.


----------



## Arya Stark (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Why? This is about the story, and the library is here to discuss that. If you can't stand to see dissent, then why not follow your own advice?
> 
> I mean people are expressing their issue with the story at the end of the day as I stated, all you guys are doing is complaining about people doing something that is pertinent to the reason this section was made to begin with.



People are insulting each other over fictional pairings. There is no "discussion" here. 

But whatever, this thread is about to be locked anyway.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh but she is so sisterly kind, isnt  she Eli?

Only in the name of duty and team.  Her love was in another level, preferably pre chapter 3




> Sakura will have a lot of nightmares.



Sakura will get Ebola!




Normality said:


> Am I the only person who can hardly understand Corvida?



I only come in raw. Use google.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> I guess I'll ask my question again.  If Sasuke didn't assault Sakura in the story, but still did all the other dumb shit like attack Killer Bee, join Orochimaru, would you opinion regarding Sasusaku be the same?



the thing is, even if sasuke didn't try to kill sakura, he still put her down emotionally as the series went by. 
that kind of neglect and lack of support doesn't make this pairing strong.



Lovely said:


> Because he doesn't agree with you he's suddenly lost his credibility. Sorry, that's not how it works. : sag



it was more like he was way too biased and i'm wondering what other things he translated based on his biases


----------



## HolyHands (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Honestly, I see most people making or attempting to make, valid points except the SasuSaku fans. As I predicted they've tried to flame the shit out of most anyone that doesn't like their little pairing.



Well the simple criticism of pairings is perfectly fine, and I think a lot of it is valid. It was those cringe worthy rants on what Kishimoto planned or conspiracy theories on editor/outside pressure that made me roll my eyes. People get way too invested in these things.


----------



## Choco (Nov 21, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> Criticism is perfectly fine.
> 
> But this thread went way beyond criticism and just straight into a series of one temper tantrum after another.



I agree with this.



Selina Kyle said:


> well, now i know not to trust takl
> he's not a credible source



Are you serious? Because he disagreed with you? lol okay.



TRN said:


> You can't even understand a children book...so i'm not suprised:ignoramus


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> sounds like a copout for uve never said anything poitive.



I predicted you'd claim that, which is why I left a message to a member here on what I found positive about the story. 



ChickenPotPie said:


> I guess I'll ask my question again.  If Sasuke didn't assault Sakura in the story, but still did all the other dumb shit like attack Killer Bee, join Orochimaru, would you opinion regarding Sasusaku be the same?



I mean he was still a jerk to her, and assuming you mean that he just as well wouldn't leave her to die like he did twice in the war arc as well; their specific relationship would not look as heinous. However, it would still make her look bad considering her knowledge of his criminal acts. Trying to kill a person is a big deal, as is leaving them to die; especially when considering you have those trying to push the idea that they are representation of an ideal of romance. Yeah he changed, as they will redundantly state, but that doesn't undo his actions.



			
				HolyHands said:
			
		

> Well the simple criticism of pairings is perfectly fine, and I think a lot of it is valid. It was those cringe worthy rants on what Kishimoto planned or conspiracy theories on editor/outside pressure that made me roll my eyes. People get way too invested in these things.



Believe me, I've had to deal with them for a while now...


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 21, 2014)

TRN said:


> You can't even understand a children book...so i'm not suprised:ignoramus




Who are you? Seriously. LOL


Corvida said:


> Oh but she is so sisterly kind, isnt  she Eli?
> 
> Only in the name of duty and team.  Her love was in another level pre chapter 3
> 
> ...



No, the points you try to make are very incoherent. It's clear English is not your strength. You're the one in need of google translator so dont try to pin this on me.


----------



## Not a Narutard (Nov 21, 2014)

I see people hide their hatred of Sasuke by calling SasuSaku abusive and unhealthy. It's like people missing  Kishimoto's intent of making the character that way, and people still think less of Sasuke because he apparently isn't allowed happiness or joy because he's evil or some shit.

It just shows that anything affliated with Sasuke in a romantic way is heresy,  despite the fact Sasuke's character revolves around love and family. And Sakura was always the answer to that. I mean it's still a shonen in the end, and Sasuke was arguably the most human concept of this cookie cutter shonen because he moved towards a vision and his duties, but was corrupted. In the end he was saved and Naruto through the power of ass whoop shatter his corrupted vision and fulfilled his duty the right way.

Sasuke was the purest character in the series IMO, he did not elevate himself to something that didn't feel right, he was natural in all of his development.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Because he was evil and is going on a trip of repentance. But no, fuck him he's not allowed to be happy or anything whatever he does or accomplish.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> no it wasn't.
> he basically came out of nowhere and called us "bitches."
> and then our criticisms were called "being butthurt."
> i'm going, 'why? just why...'



The fact a member like him who is like a saint came out and bluntly insulted y'all is the funny part less about what he said to do so.

Your questioning it but i'm giggling at it.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

At this point some may create an anti Kishi FC due to how much they complain on his writing. Or maybe that FC is out there somewhere but was kinda ignored?

Anyway at this point its all "either you are with us or against us" stance that seems to be spreading here.

One could expect that those who lost and won in this pairing war would slowly stop their mutual antagonism and agree to disagree on their views but despite over 2 weeks since the manga ended the pairing war is as intense as ever.

Someone will always bitch and someone will always gloat. Fans will be fans. Oh well, there are FCs to praise Kishi's writing I think as there are FC to hate characters like Sakura or Sasuke...both of whom are big stars in this pairing drama.

I wonder how many of those who complain about the ending would be happy with it only if Kishi hooked different characters with each other? Because apart from the pairing related stuff there is no much to complain around here apart from maybe a rushed ending. I expected more to complain of how predictable it was that Sasuke would end up redeemed or something but it is all about how awful Sakura is by sending such an awful moral message or how fu**ed up is Kishi himself. *sight*


----------



## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

Normality said:


> No, the points you try to make are very incoherent.
> 
> [



Dont get  between Eli and my chapter 4 reference, God know how many time we?ve fought about it!mad



> It's clear English is not your strength.


And you tell me this now, after so many  years?





> [You're the one in need of google translator so dont try to pin this on me.



There is no google translator in existance capable of doing the things I _do_ with the pitinglish.
So consider yourself pinned.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Because he was evil and is going on a trip of repentance. But no, fuck him he's not allowed to be happy or anything.



Do you even know what you're saying?

Do you even realize how people determine on how an individual 'deserves' happiness? Objectively no one deserves anything. We simply assume normal people deserve happiness on the presumption that they did no heinous wrong against another or group. Which is why in contrast we are less sympathetic to those that have done heinous acts against individuals. A case has to be made to people on that matter.



Choco said:


> Seto playing the victim? Wowww lol



I'm not trying to victimize anyone. I'm making a point. 

Most people here, including NaruHina fans, have made very strong and valid critique of the aspect of SasuSaku in regards to this story. All you guys seem to know how to do is dodge it by claiming individuals are salty or butthurt, or whatever kind of thing you can conjure up. Yet at the end of the day it's simple baiting and flaming to what is clear to me at least, to cover up the inability to address those criticisms.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Not a Narutard said:


> I see people hide their hatred of Sasuke by calling SasuSaku abusive and unhealthy. It's like people missing  Kishimoto's intent of making the character that way, and people still think less of Sasuke because he apparently isn't allowed happiness or joy because he's evil or some shit.
> 
> It just shows that anything affliated with Sasuke in a romantic is heresy,  despite the fact Sasuke's character revolves around love and family. And Sakura was always the answer to that.



that makes no sense because people have been talking mostly about sakura's development in regard to ss, not sasuke.  
and no, sasunaru wasn't a heresy to the sn fandom. 



Choco said:


> Seto playing the victim? Wowww lol



he wasn't.




blackguyinpinksuit said:


> The fact a member like him who is like a saint came out and bluntly insulted y'all is the funny part less about what he said to do so.
> 
> Your questioning it but i'm giggling at it.



you're saying that he was a wolf in sheep's clothing all along 
let's not


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Not a Narutard said:


> I see people hide their hatred of Sasuke by calling SasuSaku abusive and unhealthy. It's like people missing  Kishimoto's intent of making the character that way, and people still think less of Sasuke because he apparently isn't allowed happiness or joy because he's evil or some shit.
> 
> It just shows that anything affliated with Sasuke in a romantic way is heresy,  despite the fact Sasuke's character revolves around love and family. And Sakura was always the answer to that. I mean it's still a shonen in the end, and Sasuke was arguably the most human concept of this cookie cutter shonen because he moved towards a vision and his duties, but was corrupted. In the end he was saved and Naruto through the power of ass whoop shatter his corrupted vision and fulfilled his duty the right way.
> 
> Sasuke was the purest character in the series IMO, he did not elevate himself to something that didn't feel right, he was natural in all of his development.


You're wasting your time typing this. Moral police Seto will insult you for not being butthurt like him.


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> well, now i know not to trust takl
> he's not a credible source



haha! because the truth isnt credible 4 u .


----------



## Blu-ray (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> guilty is charged
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's what you quoted no?

I don't remember anything else other than editing out the "what more could you want" that I put back in.


----------



## Darkhope (Nov 21, 2014)

Thanks for the trans, takl.  so it's as I thought:
- NaruHina was always intended
- Kishi somewhere down the line only thought about NaruSaku but quickly scrapped that idea
- Went with original plan



Mizura said:


> *sigh* We're arguing rhetorics.
> 
> Kishimoto interview = canon.
> Merchandise = not canon. Besides, the ads also imply that Naruto only became aware of Hinata's feelings 2 years later, which is ridiculous no matter how you look at it.
> ...



Naruto took 2 years to actually comprehend the meaning and depth of Hinata's feelings, not that he ignored her confession. He's never known romantic love like that, and he did not understand her the first time. Oh well, that's Naruto for you. 

The first poster (main one) says はじめての愛 "hajimete no ai" which means "love for the first time". That's the poster you are talking about. The new ad that I just showed you doesn't say that. It says ナルト、初めての恋をする "Naruto, hajimete no koi wo suru" which means "Naruto, falls in love for the first time". There is a  difference. 恋をする = literally to fall in love.

Again.. I'm not denying that Naruto had a crush on Sakura. But it's clear from the manga that's all it was: a crush. His first real love of his life that's being shoved in our faces is Hinata.


----------



## Milliardo (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Because he was evil and is going on a trip of repentance. But no, fuck him he's not allowed to be happy or anything whatever he does or accomplish.


preach it my brother. 


sasusaku happened people need to get it over it already. it was always an option whether people disliked it or not. damn, i have never seen such hatred before.


----------



## Choco (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I'm not trying to victimize anyone. I'm making a point.
> 
> Most people here, including NaruHina fans, have made very strong and valid critique of the aspect of SasuSaku in regards to this story. All you guys seem to know how to do is dodge it by claiming individuals are salty or butthurt, or whatever kind of thing you can conjure up. Yet at the end of the day it's simple baiting and flaming to what is clear to me at least, to cover up the inability to address those criticisms.



Hmm, maybe that... Or maybe we just don't give a damn what you have to say


----------



## Not a Narutard (Nov 21, 2014)

Sakura didn't fall from grace, she always stayed true to herself. She excelled beyond her female peers, helped save the world and helped save the love of her life(she was a factor for Naruto to win against Sasuke) with her ending up with him and sharing her love with his lonely existence(databook).


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

Choco said:


> Hmm, maybe that... Or maybe we just don't give a damn



If you didn't, you wouldn't be here.




			
				Milliardo said:
			
		

> sasusaku happened people need to get it over it already. it was always an option whether people disliked it or not. damn, i have never seen such hatred before.



People know it happened, this isn't contended. People know it was an option, this isn't being contended either. I just see this so many times, but if you guys actually followed this why do you keep posting things like this? No one is disputing events of the story as they happened, but the criticizing the motives behind such events.

Look, this isn't any different from say, Itachi and Sasuke's brotherhood and how Kishi tries to make it out to be some great thing, but blasting it because it was presented as nothing of the sort.


----------



## Choco (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> If you didn't, you wouldn't be here.



There are many reasons to be here lol Not just that.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

Hatred isn't lacking here in the least.

(part 1) Itachi would be proud.


----------



## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> If you didn't, you wouldn't be here.



Look for the spanish verb "refocilar".


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> That's what you quoted no?: oh
> 
> I don't remember anything else other than editing out the "what more could you want" that I put back in.



nvm.
i don't think that you get it. 




Not a Narutard said:


> Sakura didn't fall from grace, she always stayed true to herself. She excelled beyond her female peers, helped save the world and helped save the love of her life(she was a factor for Naruto to win against Sasuke) with her ending up with him and sharing her love with his lonely existence(databook).



the love of her life who didn't even give a damn about her until the final chapter. 
even then he still didn't care cuz he's busy traveling.
and that's the thing about her female peers. 
kishi didn't give a crap about developing them, and he didn't even bother to develop sakura further.


----------



## sakuraboobs (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> Kish "ive decided on hinata (to be narutos lady)  since quite a long time ago. There was a time when i wondered if i should pick sakura (for the role) but now  sakura would be too thick as a  woman if she had a change of heart to give it to Naruto at this stage of the game (lol). plus actually sakura is always devoted to sasuke after all, I think."
> 
> from entermix january 2015 issue .





takL said:


> during the Kage Summit arc? Kish didnt specify when.
> ur translator skipped the bit "ここに来て now at this stage/after coming this far"






takL said:


> yeah i was busy yesterday. what was the shitstorm about?
> 
> and no kish says sakura has been in love with sasuke all along.



Thanks a lot for this. 



Selina Kyle said:


> well, now i know not to trust takl
> he's not a credible source



.....


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

@ sasusaku haters, reread the part one. as a sane boy sasuke did seem to care much about saukra.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> Her only faults were being a useless, shallow, and inconsiderate bitch. She's now useful, no longer shallow, and is now considerate. What more could you want?



this still gets me 




Selina Kyle said:


> it was more like he was way too biased and i'm wondering what other things he translated based on his biases



and here's my (neglected) answer as to why i don't believe that takl is a credible source now


----------



## Not a Narutard (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> nvm.
> i don't think that you get it.
> 
> 
> ...


You honestly think he didn't give a crap about her? wow. Even a autisc 12 year could see the shit Sasuke was spouting was was hot rhetoric to shake the readers heartstrings, it was corny as hell too. Sasuke lied to you if you think he never felt anything for Sakura.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Not a Narutard said:


> You honestly think he didn't give a crap about her? wow. Even a autisc 12 year could see the shit Sasuke was spouting was was hot rhetoric to shake the readers heartstrings, it was corny as hell too. Sasuke lied to you if you think he never felt anything for Sakura.




i don't think that you should diss people with autism that way 
and sasuke certainly didn't shake every "readers heartstrings," no matter how "corny as hell" it was.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> you're saying that he was a wolf in sheep's clothing all along
> let's not



Eh that's taking it abit far since i doubt he's truly a mean guy y'all just pissed him off. Basically all the negative energy here is enough to make even a really rational person lose their temper it's funny. This is something like comedy don't take it seriously.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)




----------



## ChronoDeus (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> yeah i was busy yesterday. what was the shitstorm about?



Mainly about the translation choice for "ひどい女". Saying that Sakura would be a terrible person if she had a change of heart to Naruto was taken by them as saying Sakura would be a terrible person if she moved on from Sasuke at all. And they pretty much proceeded to ignore all other parts of the statement in favor of raging over that one. 

Actually, I'm not sure why you translated ひどい女 as "thick as a woman". None of the definitions or usages of ひどい that I'm aware of would match any of the definitions of thick.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Eh that's taking it abit far since i doubt he's truly a mean guy y'all just pissed him off. Basically all the negative energy here is enough to make even a really rational person lose their temper it's funny. This is something like comedy don't take it seriously.



please. 
i only criticized about the nature of ss and sakura's development. 
the irony is that people started getting pissed off by the fact there was criticism about ss.
what's even more baffling is that they even went further to call others "butthurt" for those criticisms, when in fact they were "butthurt" for people making those criticisms against ss.


----------



## Not a Narutard (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> i don't think that you should diss people with autism that way
> and sasuke certainly didn't shake every "readers heartstrings," no matter how "corny as hell" it was.


To be honest even a normal kid can see the crap Sasuke was spewing.

And yes, last I check Sasuke is drama incarnate and everything he does is meant to shock and suspence the audience for angst. It's why girls make up most of the fantards of the guy.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Nov 21, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> I guess I'll ask my question again.  If Sasuke didn't assault Sakura in the story, but still did all the other dumb shit like attack Killer Bee, join Orochimaru, would you opinion regarding Sasusaku be the same?



I'd be an easier pill to swallow...Though I still wouldn't like it.


----------



## Milliardo (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> People know it happened, this isn't contended. People know it was an option, this isn't being contended either. I just see this so many times, but if you guys actually followed this why do you keep posting things like this? No one is disputing events of the story as they happened, but the criticizing the motives behind such events.
> 
> Look, this isn't any different from say, Itachi and Sasuke's brotherhood and how Kishi tries to make it out to be some great thing, but blasting it because it was presented as nothing of the sort.


well there is like 40 pages and ongoing so i'm not going to read everything that was posted man. 

i understand that people think it was horribly written and people who hate it will continue to no matter what is posted in response to their complaints. i mean its a deadlock.

there was a timeskip so why is it so hard to swallow they fell in love years later? if sasuke is a changed man and sakura didn't immediately marry him after the war then what is the problem? do we need like 30 chapters showing the development for people to be cool with it or something? I mean didn't people accept gaara's change just like that?  it seems people ignore that part and only focus on what sasuke did prior to his change. i mean there is a lot of things that i didn't like either in the manga but i didn't ignore their existence.


----------



## takL (Nov 21, 2014)

ChronoDeus said:


> Mainly about the translation choice for "ひどい女". Saying that Sakura would be a terrible person if she had a change of heart to Naruto was taken them as Sakura would be a terrible person if she moved on from Sasuke at all. And they pretty much proceeded to ignore all other parts of the statement in favor of raging over that one.
> 
> Actually, I'm not sure why you translated ひどい女 as "thick as a woman". None of the definitions or usages of ひどい that I'm aware of would match any of the definitions of thick.



in the context.　plus he says ひどい女過ぎでしょう　and　not 酷過ぎる女でしょう


----------



## Choco (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> please.
> i only criticized about the nature of ss and sakura's development.
> the irony is that people started getting pissed off by the fact there was criticism about ss.
> what's even more baffling is that they even went further to call others "butthurt" for those criticisms, when in fact they were "butthurt" for people making those criticisms against ss.



Oh pipe down. You basically said Kishi has a sickening and unhealthy mindset, and that he supports imperialism, ultra-nationalism, sexism and whatnot. Such nonsense. No wonder people called you butthurt. Nobody cares if you criticize but there's a difference between that and what you were doing.


----------



## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> i wouldnt quote a post that i couldnt make out.
> 
> as if they ever said anything positive.
> they seem to be here just to express their butthurts.





TRN said:


> You can't even understand a children book...so i'm not suprised:ignoramus





takL said:


> haha! because the truth isnt credible 4 u .





Meat said:


> YES! finally my popcorn is not wasted. I thought this thread died. Im i glad someone angry joined the fray.



I'm not the type to abide by this, but this thread going places.



Selina Kyle said:


> you're saying that he was a wolf in sheep's clothing all along
> let's not



He's tired of your insincere whining.



Not a Narutard said:


> I see people hide their hatred of Sasuke by calling SasuSaku abusive and unhealthy. It's like people missing  Kishimoto's intent of making the character that way, and people still think less of Sasuke because he apparently isn't allowed happiness or joy because he's evil or some shit.
> 
> It just shows that anything affliated with Sasuke in a romantic way is heresy,  despite the fact Sasuke's character revolves around love and family. And Sakura was always the answer to that. I mean it's still a shonen in the end, and Sasuke was arguably the most human concept of this cookie cutter shonen because he moved towards a vision and his duties, but was corrupted. In the end he was saved and Naruto through the power of ass whoop shatter his corrupted vision and fulfilled his duty the right way.
> 
> Sasuke was the purest character in the series IMO, he did not elevate himself to something that didn't feel right, he was natural in all of his development.





Yagami1211 said:


> Because he was evil and is going on a trip of repentance. But no, fuck him he's not allowed to be happy or anything whatever he does or accomplish.





Milliardo said:


> there was a timeskip so why is it so hard to swallow they fell in love years later? if sasuke is a changed man and sakura didn't immediately marry him after the war then what is the problem? do we need like 30 chapters showing the development for people to be cool with it or something? I mean didn't people accept gaara's change just like that?  it seems people ignore that part and only focus on what sasuke did prior to his change. i mean there a lot of things that i didn't like either in the manga but i didn't ignore their existence.



Sasuke is stepping up to fullfill his second chance. I don't get what's so hard to accept.



Not a Narutard said:


> Sakura didn't fall from grace, she always stayed true to herself. She excelled beyond her female peers, helped save the world and helped save the love of her life(she was a factor for Naruto to win against Sasuke) with her ending up with him and sharing her love with his lonely existence(databook).





takL said:


> @ sasusaku haters, reread the part one. as a sane boy sasuke did seem to care much about saukra.





Not a Narutard said:


> You honestly think he didn't give a crap about her? wow. Even a autisc 12 year could see the shit Sasuke was spouting was was hot rhetoric to shake the readers heartstrings, it was corny as hell too. Sasuke lied to you if you think he never felt anything for Sakura.





This manga for 12 year old middle school boys. It's so hard!



takL said:


> in the context.　plus he says ひどい女過ぎでしょう　and　not 酷過ぎる女でしょう



Can it be fickle? That's how Sakura described her feelings about 'switching' in the fake confession, which is pretty much what this interview is about.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> and here's my (neglected) answer as to why i don't believe that takl is a credible source now



Isn't pretty much everyone who knows somewhat about this plot and characters biased in some form or another? Either by liking something or not liking. That said I never heard of takL being obsessed with SS or anything and if he doesn't hate it that doesn't make him more biased than he would if he actually hated it.

Everyone is free to read trans from fans that share similar views on the manga, characters and anything else. Though of course a fellow fan isn't always the perfect translator just because he shares those views.

Eh, at this point even those that were never involved in this pairing war mess are starting to get agitated due to all this hating and stuff.

Peace people.


----------



## Selina Kyle (Nov 21, 2014)

Not a Narutard said:


> Well we are at the point of no return in this thread, it's a shonen message board and I hate Naruto. Might as well debunk some of the crap people spew.



stop this nonsense, dupe. 



Choco said:


> Oh pipe down. You basically said Kishi has a sickening and unhealthy mindset, and that he supports imperialism, ultra-nationalism, sexism and whatnot. Such nonsense. No wonder people called you butthurt. Nobody cares if you criticize but there's a difference between that and what you were doing.



you're very rude, aren't you.
and you don't see those extremist issues in this manga that kishi actually is all for. 
and no, people call me "butthurt" because they want to shut me up like you who told me to "pipe down." 




> He's tired of your insincere whining.



maybe he should take up his own advice and put me on ignore list.




Arles Celes said:


> Isn't pretty much everyone who knows somewhat about this plot and characters biased in some form or another? Either by liking something or not liking. That said I never heard of takL being obsessed with SS or anything and if he doesn't hate it that doesn't make him more biased than he would if he actually hated it.
> 
> Everyone is free to read trans from fans that share similar views on the manga, characters and anything else. Though of course a fellow fan isn't always the perfect translator just because he shares those views.
> 
> ...



yes, everyone has biases, but translations should remain clean for the audience. 
and there's always going to be for or against in anything.


----------



## Kage (Nov 21, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> I guess I'll ask my question again.  If Sasuke didn't assault Sakura in the story, but still did all the other dumb shit like attack Killer Bee, join Orochimaru, would you opinion regarding Sasusaku be the same?


More or less. I didn't think highly of it even during Part I. 12 year old Sakura was a doormat around Sasuke.

Timeskip Sakura...continued to be a doormat around Sasuke.


Selina Kyle said:


> please.
> i only criticized about the nature of ss and sakura's development.
> the irony is that people started getting pissed off by the fact there was criticism about ss.
> what's even more baffling is that they even went further to call others "butthurt" for those criticisms, when in fact they were "butthurt" for people making those criticisms against ss.



It's like they're expecting a parade, become enraged there isn't one and then decide it's just butthurt they got this all figured out but no seriously you aint got nothing for them to preen over then shut up it's not like they care or anything but why is this thread still open tho.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

So.... if Gaara got in a romantic relationship would it be considered abusive?


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

takL said:


> in the context.　plus he says ひどい女過ぎでしょう　and　not 酷過ぎる女でしょう



Cool stuff 

Also another NS translator claimed this:

Kishimoto::かなり前からヒナタで決めていました。サクラにしようかと迷った時期もあったのです が、ここへ来てサクラがナルトに心変わりしたら、さすがにサクラはひどい女過ぎでしょう（笑う）。　それに 、実際サクラはなんだかんだでサスケに対して一途なんだと思います

Kishimoto:: KANARI mae kara hinata de kimeteimashita. sakura ni shiyouka to MAYOTTA jiki mo atta no desuga, koko he kite sakura ga naruto ni kokoro kawarishitara, sasuga ni sakura ha hidoi
sugi deshou(laugh). SORE NI, JISSAI SAKURA ha NANDAKANDA de sasuke ni taishite ichizu NANDA to OMOIMASU.

You had the NaruHina person translated it as such?.

"I decided quite a while ago to go with Hinata.
There was a time when I was on the fence about going with Sakura, but after coming this far and just having Sakura switch over to loving Naruto would make her kind of a terrible woman.
Anyway, Sakura really has always just been wholeheartedly about Sasuke.?

Right?

I translate it as such. You have to really take it in context.

Interviewer:: In the last story, there is a part where small kid hinata and naruto being suggested(or hinted out in a trailer). May I know WHEN WAS IT THAT YOU FIRM, FIRM MAKE the decision that hinata marry naruto in the future?

Kishimoto:: Well, QUITE SOME TIME AGO, I have decided (Naruto to marry) with Hinata. Even though, Sakura had HER MOMENTS OF WAVERING(confused, hearts divided), (not Kishimoto were thinking twice about it, whether to put Hinata or Sakura as Naruto?s wife), for Sakura to come to that part (of marrying Naruto), she would have to change her heart and that would make her a VERY, VERY cruel woman, no? Besides/moreover, THE PRACTICAL SAKURA has been always CONSIDERATE (been thinking, if you must) to Sasuke, IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

Now?.do I think my translation is correct?

a) KANARI:: which means / CONSIDERABLY / FAIRLY / QUITE .


Kishimoto NEVER SAID that he had considered FOR A VERY LONG TIME AGO.

b) MAYOTTA is the past tense for Mayou, 迷う, and Mayou means, ?TO HAVE TWO HEARTS, TO BE DIVIDED?


So yes, KISHIMOTO ADMITTED THAT THERE WERE TIMES HE DID MAKE SAKURA THINK TWICE IN HER RELATIONSHIP WITH NARUTO AND SASUKE.

My opinion,?..Kishimoto said, ?To Come To This Stage?, Kishimoto was referring to ?To come to the stage of Sakura marrying Naruto, like how the question was referring to Hinata marrying Naruto?, Kishimoto think that Sakura would be a very cruel woman if she decided to change her heart and go after Naruto. Kishimoto was referring not to Sakura giving a chance to herself and Naruto as being a very cruel woman, Kishimoto was referring the fact that if Sakura were to decide to change her hearts towards Naruto, Sakura would be very cruel to Hinata and to some extend Naruto. That?s why Kishimoto said Sakura must get Sasuke.

Sore ni, means ?MoreOver, Besides?.

JISSAI SAKURA?..jissai refers to ?practical, come to reality?. So, with JISSAI Sakura, it means Sakura is a practical girl.


?..Has Always Been Thinking Of Sasuke.

Now, there is no words of ?love Sasuke? in Sakura?s term. Kishimoto used the term ?to omoimasu? which means ?to think?, but given in context NANDAKANDA and NANDA TO OMOIMASU, it appears to me that what Kishimoto was saying, that the ?Practical Sakura has always been in ?ONE WAY OR ANOTHER? give consideration to Sasuke?s plight.




So?..consider this, how can you say ?practical Sakura? and 'loving Sasuke since genin days' goes hand in hand?



Whats your stance on this trans takL?


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Arles Celes said:


> Cool stuff
> 
> Also another NS translator claimed this:
> 
> ...






Even I can see the guy is wrong, just by looking at this.


----------



## Sunako (Nov 21, 2014)

Zef said:


> So.... if Gaara got in a romantic relationship would it be considered abusive?



It's funny even thinking Gaara could be in a romantic relationship


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Sunako said:


> It's funny even thinking Gaara could be in a romantic relationship



Well, he does have a good relationship with Kankuro and Temari, even though he probably tried to kill them.
Kankurou hated his guts.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

I can see Gaara in a same-sex relationship tbh.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

Surprisingly Gaara stayed alone. Maybe his shadows around his eyes did make him seem creepy, maybe his new hairstyle did not gain many fangirls aor maybe Mitsuri(that sand genin girl) either died or found someone else.

That said Kankuro did not show up with any girl either. Forbidden love or eternal bromance?

He still got a nephew in Shika clone V3.


----------



## Sunako (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Well, he does have a good relationship with Kankuro and Temari, even though he probably tried to kill them.
> Kankurou hated his guts.



Being in a romantic relationship is not the same thing as having a good relationship with your siblings
Him being in a relationship would be kinda ooc since he never showed any interest in this area 
Link removed

Kishi should have focused on them more lulz



Zef said:


> I can see Gaara in a same-sex relationship tbh.



Naruto would be his only option, but that can't happen anymore because he's Sasuke's Hinata's



but this Gaara issue is off topic and it would be better if the SS vs NS vs NH vs Kishi continued


----------



## Kage (Nov 21, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> Surprisingly Gaara stayed alone. Maybe his shadows around his eyes did make him seem creepy, maybe his new hairstyle did not gain many fangirls aor maybe Mitsuri(that sand genin girl) either died or found someone else.



Or maybe Kishimoto decided to be merciful, if only to Gaara. I mean dat haircut was bad enough.


----------



## Itachі (Nov 21, 2014)

Zef said:


> So.... if Gaara got in a romantic relationship would it be considered abusive?



Nah, he hasn't really hurt anyone that's been interested in him anyway.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

takL please translate


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

Zef said:


> takL please translate



It's the official movie guide book by Kishimoto.
I don't know what's in it though.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> It's the official movie guide book by Kishimoto.
> I don't know what's in it though.



Probably more NH stuff.


----------



## mezzomarinaio (Nov 21, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not takL, but I'll give it a go.

*tries to count how many mistakes are in that translation*

Let's see... turning a name clearly marked with 'ni' into a subject, ignoring completely the 'shiou ka' preceding 'mayotta', turning a te-form into a purpose clause, translating a word meaning 'here' into 'that part', turning an if clause into a main clause, ignoring completely 'sasuga ni', confusing an adjective with an adverb, inventing a total new meaning for 'ichizuna'.

I think that pretty much covers it.


----------



## izzyisozaki (Nov 21, 2014)

Love how that as soon as Naruto redeemed Sasuke, the latter's heroine status was taken by Hinata


----------



## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> Love how that as soon as Naruto redeemed Sasuke, the latter's heroine status was taken by Hinata



All according to keikaku !


----------



## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> Love how that as soon as Naruto redeemed Sasuke, the latter's heroine status was taken by Hinata





Sasuke will be always the true Disney princess of this manga


----------



## Pocalypse (Nov 21, 2014)

izzyisozaki said:


> Love how that as soon as Naruto redeemed Sasuke, the latter's heroine status was taken by Hinata



Implying Sakura had a heroine status...

...

...

..

.


----------



## Arles Celes (Nov 21, 2014)

Isn't NaruSaku more popular in Japan than NaruHina?

Are Japan's NaruHina fans so much more dangerous?

If he was a western comic writer and did get his pairing fans as heated as he did with Naruto then he should fear ever leaving home out of fear. I know I would fear for my life if I was Kishi LOL


----------



## Revolution (Nov 21, 2014)

Selina Kyle said:


> kishi wrote this story for his kids too.
> so let's see... he's teaching his kids that it's okay for boys to go around doing whatever they want,
> change their minds every second because it doesn't make him terrible for not going through his commitments,
> and that girls must strictly worship a boy she liked during her childhood because it makes her a "terrible woman" if she doesn't by the time she's nearly an adult.
> ...



Sasuke should have apologized to Sakura for hurting her, not for seeking justice for his family, killing Danzo, or bringing the Hokage to the battlefield.  THEY SAVED EVERYONE!

Also wanted to see more work on Sasuke swooning Sakura.  Instead all we see is him hurting her, apologizing, then leaving.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Nov 21, 2014)

I hardly doubt there's any 'professional' author out there who's willing to change their story just because of fandom threats. Absolutely ridiculous notion


----------



## Blu-ray (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This ignoring the concept of standards entirely, and that the issue people had with Sakura included her obsession with Sasuke. As it ultimately did degrade her character. One, consistent change, which a moving on in a romantic sense from Sasuke would have been is not 'flip-flopping', that only shows you're not familiar with the meaning of the term.



I didn't think I'd need to be this specific given what the interview was about. It's not Sakura moving on in general, but instantly moving on to Naruto specifically, that would have made her appear to flip flop.

Whether or not moving on in general would be good for her is irrelevant here as the interview was specifically about Kishi's choice in a partner for Naruto, and his reasons for who he picked.

Simply not fucking up the story, characters, and actually writing the damn pairing would have also worked wonders for her character.



> If only people didn't have functioning brains, then they couldn't see situations for what they are! Such woe.



Oh silly me. I forgot there's no distinction between physical abuse and combat, verbal abuse and blunt honesty, and that Sasuke and Sakura were in a relationship during this time.

And how could I have forgotten Sasuke beating the shit out of Sakura in chapter 700 and calling her a waste of gametes.

Certainly there are flaws such as Sakura's unwarranted love and devotion, and Sasuke's indifference, and well, almost everything he did, but abuse? Nah I don't see it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

VolatileSoul said:


> I didn't think I'd need to be this specific given what the interview was about. It's not Sakura moving on in general, but instantly moving on to Naruto specifically, that would have made her appear to flip flop.



As you may or may not have noticed, most have said moving on doesn't have to mean to Naruto or anyone for that matter.



> Whether or not moving on in general would be good for her is irrelevant here as the interview was specifically about Kishi's choice in a partner for Naruto, and his reasons for who he picked.



Ah, but this is people's point about Kishi's warped mindset that he thinks the alternative he chose for her is a more dignified end, and that other options didn't occur to him.



> Simply not fucking up the story, characters, and actually writing the damn pairing would have also worked wonders for her character.



Yes it would have, but this isn't the case, which is why it is criticized.



> Oh silly me. I forgot there's no distinction between physical abuse and combat, verbal abuse and blunt honesty, and that Sasuke and Sakura were in a relationship during this time.
> 
> And how could I have forgotten Sasuke beating the shit out of Sakura in chapter 700 and calling her a waste of gametes



You don't have to be in a relationship to abuse someone. Neither does it come in a single form. This only illustrates, as I believe I've told you before, that you don't seem to have much of a grasp on the concept of it. You seem to think it exists only in those narrowly defined parameters that you've set for it.



> Certainly there are flaws such as Sakura's unwarranted love and devotion, and Sasuke's indifference, and well, almost everything he did, but abuse? Nah I don't see it.



Well that doesn't surprise me considering the aforementioned.


----------



## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

>"you don't have to be in a relationship to abuse someone"
> Labels SS as an abusive relationship.


----------



## Alucardemi (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm not a SasuSaku fan, as I don't personally find the relationship interesting due to not being very focused or relevant in the story and to Sasuke's character overall, leading to a less-than-enthralling construction for me, but let's be real here.

The issue is that people don't think Sakura or Naruto should be so forgiving of Sasuke, and applying value judgement to that, label what came after Sasuke's psychotic streak, as morally reprehensible.

I don't think I would be as forgiving as Naruto or Sakura, but people are infinitely varied, aren't they? What's to say what is a realistic reaction or not? The story's entire message is one of hope in others, forgiveness and never giving-up. In a story whose entire construct is like that, Sakura moving on from her devotion to Sasuke could somewhat conflict with the central theme. Instead of asking if the relationship is interesting, people ask if it represents a healthy one, and that's one way to read it, but its not how everyone reads it.

People have diverging values. If Kishimoto thinks a true friend's characteristic is hope and devotion, then it makes sense to have Sakura experience Sasuke at his most psychotic, and still hope that he could become who he once was if they just stick together.

And in that sense, I get why people, by their own peceptions, shout "abuse, abuse, reprehensible!".

But I just ask, for one moment, that you acknowledge how that does reflect as moral policing. Which is just one way to enjoy fiction.


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## Elicit94 (Nov 21, 2014)

Zef said:


> >"you don't have to be in a relationship to abuse someone"
> > Labels SS as an abusive relationship.


It was an abusive platonic relationship. Now it's probably an abusive romantic relationship.


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## Zef (Nov 21, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> It was an abusive platonic relationship. Now it's probably an abusive romantic relationship.



Yes, because Sasuke didn't change how he treated Sakura after being redeemed by Naruto.  

/sarcasm


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## Gunners (Nov 21, 2014)

I doubt the relationship is abusive, presently. The characters tend to do complete 180s when it comes to things of that nature. 

The issue isn't about how he'd treat her after the years of abuse. It is about the characters self-respect. Now, I have always believed that Sakura had none, so her decision to marry Sasuke is what I expected. What I take issue with is Kishimoto's take on the matter: believing that it makes her a decent character. If he wanted to make her respectable, she should have moved on.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 21, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> It was an abusive platonic relationship. Now it's probably an abusive romantic relationship.



You are not helping...

He thinks relationship only pertains to those romantically involved, when a relationship is simply what people have that connects them to one or more individuals. 

They were not involved romantically, yet that doesn't change for Sakura it was an abusive situation. The guy she loved after all was repeatedly trying to kill her. Then on that, almost left her to die more than once. This isn't a situation people normally would be giddy over, despite certain inevitabilities of the story. That's why you had two mass exoduses with the pairing. 

Because, as Kishi failed to realize, there are lines that can be crossed which break the threshold of the concepts he wished to touch upon. I would think the previously mentioned events would be of such to most people. In which case, it should be no surprise that they would not be supportive of it be it occurring in reality or depicted in fiction. 

And yeah, before the 100th person repeats it this applies to Naruto and Sasuke's relationship too.


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## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> As you may or may not have noticed, most have said moving on doesn't have to mean to Naruto or anyone for that matter.



Sorry but that is not neither what Kishi was telling in the interview, what Sakura was trying to do with her aborted failfession nor the story he was trying to tell.


> Ah, but this is people's point about Kishi's warped mindset that he thinks the alternative he chose for her is a more dignified end, and that other options didn't occur to him.
> 
> [




That is not the story Kishi was intending to tell.it?s not that it didnt occur to him-it?s simply that he didnt consider it, as his ending ws always, Sasuke coming back eventually to his surrogate family.



> [/You don't have to be in a relationship to abuse someone. Neither does it come in a single form. This only illustrates, as I believe I've told you before, that you don't seem to have much of a grasp on the concept of it. You seem to think it exists only in those narrowly defined parameters that you've set for it.



The narrowly defined parameters are merely,having an actual relationship to have an abusive one. Sasuke avoids any form of it , even professional ones, like the plague to the very, very end




> Elicit94 said:
> 
> 
> > It was an abusive platonic relationship. Now it's probably an abusive romantic relationship.
> ...


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## ch1p (Nov 21, 2014)

Elicit94 said:


> It was an abusive platonic relationship. Now it's probably an abusive romantic relationship.



Oh so you're acknowledging that there was a bond between Sasuke and Sakura, before the redemption took place. You're finally cracking, Elicit.


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## Rios (Nov 21, 2014)

A bond of annoyance.


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## Corvida (Nov 21, 2014)

Rios said:


> A bond of annoyance.



Do you know what that means in Sasuke-language, dont you?


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## Gunners (Nov 21, 2014)

It's funny that the issues surrounding their relationship could have easily been avoided. 

Instead of Sasuke trying to Chidori Sakura in the back, he could have asked her to heal Karin. 

Instead of trying to cut Sakura in half with the Kunai, he could have dropped it when he realised it was her. Or, Kishimoto could have gone down the route of him not realising it was her (blindness) and show him visually shocked when Naruto called his attention to it. 

The Kage arc ruined a believable happy ending. Sasuke just went too far off the deep end.


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