# Forum Reshuffle and Parent Forums



## Vandal Savage (Feb 26, 2016)

Due to a number of issues that have come up in the past and present the forum has now been reorganized to make for a more consistent forum environment and moderation approach within the various sub-forums. The section categories or "parent forums" are meant to be the greater indication of what to expect in a specific area rather than the sub-sections themselves. Example being the Anbu now being moved up top for greater visibility and absorbing some of the other sections like Konoha Times. The staff will likely still adjust some areas of the forum to round things out but for the most part the major shifting has been done.


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## Krory (Feb 26, 2016)

The "Outskirts" I expect to be a bunch of places that nobody but the niche groups want anything to do with and the staff (and some members) are just waiting patiently for them to finally die and go away forever.



> Outskirts Battledome
> Outskirts Trading Post
> The NF Cafe
> Mafia
> ...



Yep, seems pretty spot-on.


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## dr_shadow (Feb 26, 2016)

Why'd the Cafe get moved to Outskirts? Was the rent too high in Downtown?


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## Deleted member 73050 (Feb 26, 2016)

Unnecessary if you ask me.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 26, 2016)

THANK GOD THE KONOHA AD BOARD IS AT THE TOP!


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## Vandal Savage (Feb 26, 2016)

Rey said:


> The "Outskirts" I expect to be a bunch of places that nobody but the niche groups want anything to do with and the staff (and some members) are just waiting patiently for them to finally die and go away forever.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, seems pretty spot-on.



Staff sentiment about a number of those is actually the opposite. Culture and moderation style was a larger factor in how they were grouped.



mr_shadow said:


> Why'd the Cafe get moved to Outskirts? Was the rent too high in Downtown?



The cafe is a wilder zone and it was decided not to have it be one of the first sections you wander into upon accessing the forum.


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## dr_shadow (Feb 26, 2016)

Jetstorm said:


> The cafe is a wilder zone and it was decided not to have it be one of the first sections you wander into upon accessing the forum.


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## Raidoton (Feb 26, 2016)

I like the change.


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## Atlas (Feb 26, 2016)

I don't like it. Nothing is where I left it! Put it all back!


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## dr_shadow (Feb 26, 2016)

I don't, because my most frequented section just got demoted from "one of the first places you walk into" to "the LAST place you walk into".

I think they've just sentenced the Cafe to extinction.


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## ~riku~ (Feb 26, 2016)

lol this reshuffle is triggering my OCD so much 

Ad board should be in Outskirts, since it has nothing to do with official forum stuff, neither does it give rise to any discussion
RP, Mafia and Cafe should be in Downtown

Akiba district and gallery are just a huge mess. Like why are there separate sub forums for OPM, Gundam, FSN under district, but other series under gallery? Would it not make sense for it to be all under one Akiba section, with the sub forums for library and TV and then the whole list of the series that get their own sub forums? Bleach and One Piece should go there too.


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## Monna (Feb 26, 2016)

art section should be at the bottom


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## Jeroen (Feb 26, 2016)

People should use the "subscribe to forum" function.

Have all the forums you want, none of the ones you don't want.

All in the comfort of your CP.


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## NO (Feb 26, 2016)

Completely stupid. 



			
				Jetstorm said:
			
		

> Due to a number of issues that have come up in the past and present


Classic "let's pretend to have multiple reasons but let's be really vague about what they are."


The Chatterbox's activity dropped by around 60-70% due to your reorganization. The Blender is likely going to drop even further since Blenderites won't even know where it is. 

 If something isn't broken, break it, I guess. -.-


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## Frosch (Feb 26, 2016)

it took me a while to notice, you guys really screwed with me head 

If you felt some sub-sections needed to re-organized then its fine, but re-organizing the front page will be widely regarded as a bad move for generations to come


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## Kikyo (Feb 26, 2016)

Hmm, I think, overall, an improvement.  But why is the bathhouse in Downtown?


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## Krory (Feb 26, 2016)

Hahahah. Having a lazy, racist, irresponsible mod as the only mod active in the Cafe is now a "strategy" to them.

Though it's true, the rules in the Cafe are enforced even less than the Blender ever has been.


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## Krory (Feb 26, 2016)

WAD said:


> THANK GOD THE KONOHA AD BOARD IS AT THE TOP!



You know, this is sad... there are over 5,000 threads in the Konoha Ad Board.

*FIVE THOUSAND*.

An at least half of those could have been used to generate activity in the art department if a little bit of effort and advertisement was put forth.

There's also threads that could've brought activity to the dead Music and Literature Departments, and also help expand the Arcade.

But nope.


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## kire (Feb 26, 2016)

I don't think I like it either.  It's not that I don't like change or anything, but it just seems off somehow.  It lacks cohesion.
Not that anyone asked, but here's my two cents:


Anbu central seems good to me where it is.

The Akihabara District and Gallery...  Why are they the next section?  Is this a way to steer the forum away from the Naruto theme?  If not, then why are those sections 2 & 3?

I think Downtown Konoha should be above the Avenues.  If you were concerned about the Bath House being up there, then maybe Bh could be moved to the outskirts of Konoha.  

And what about moving the Cafe to the mall area?  I think it would fit there better than the outskirts.

Ok, so to sum up.  I would like the sections to be as follows:

Abnu Central -as is
Downtown Konoha - plus or minus the BH
Naruto AVE
Konoha Mall - Plus Nf Cafe
Hidden Village of Art
Outskirts of Konoha - plus or minus the BH, minus cafe
One Piece AVE
Bleach AVE
Akihabara District
Akihabara Gallery
Konoha Sanitation

The above seperates the Avenues but keeps with the flow into Akihabara.

or

Abnu Central -as is
Downtown Konoha - plus or minus the BH
Naruto AVE
One Piece AVE
Bleach AVE
Konoha Mall - Plus Nf Cafe
Hidden Village of Art
Outskirts of Konoha - plus or minus the BH, minus cafe
Akihabara District
Akihabara Gallery
Konoha Sanitation


Now granted, I don't know the reasons for this change.  I'm just telling you when I first logged it, it feels very unorganized.  Somethings off..just thought you should know..if you didn't already.


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## Yachiru (Feb 26, 2016)

This layout makes zero sense..


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## Imagine (Feb 26, 2016)

Fix this shit Jet


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## Imagine (Feb 26, 2016)

Jet

Dawg

What are you guys doing

How can you not see that this is just plain awful. This format is so unappealing

Fix it


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## Sasuke (Feb 26, 2016)

stop making unnecessary changes fggts


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## Karasu (Feb 26, 2016)

Sasuke said:


> stop making unnecessary changes fggts




 

Sorry - not helping, but


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## Karasu (Feb 26, 2016)

Meh - it's going to take some time getting used to, but I see what the focus is on and understand why it should be. 

Might need some tweaking, but it makes sense.


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## Krory (Feb 26, 2016)

Karasu said:


> Meh - it's going to take some time getting used to, but I see what the focus is on and understand why it should be.
> 
> Might need some tweaking, but it makes sense.



Yeah, bury the good sections with the garbage


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## Wolfarus (Feb 26, 2016)

I'd call myself a "cafe infrequent" (don't post in there every day, but don't ignore the section either) and even I think that posting the cafe that far down the list, much less neighboring it w/ the likes of blender/mafia is a blow to the section.

If the powers that be consider it an "unruly" section, then get more/better modding in it.


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## Krory (Feb 26, 2016)

Wolfarus said:


> I'd call myself a "cafe infrequent" (don't post in there every day, but don't ignore the section either) and even I think that posting the cafe that far down the list, much less neighboring it w/ the likes of blender/mafia is a blow to the section.
> 
> If the powers that be consider it an "unruly" section, then get more/better modding in it.



They had it, but either staff decided to take her off or she left the section, I don't know which.

As it is, the place is usually more volatile than most sections. I mean, we frequently call people ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and retards for voting for someone different than us, and the word "^ (use bro)" is thrown around more than a Klan rally.


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## Karasu (Feb 26, 2016)

Rey said:


> Yeah, bury the good sections with the garbage




Yeah, no - the primary focus is on anime and manga. I'm assuming (if you don't still) you read/watched some point in the past, which is why you are here and why more people like you will hopefully be drawn in. The other sections are fed from that.  

I'm not belittling the importance of the other sections, because they can be and are substantive (both in content and relationally).


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## Impact (Feb 26, 2016)

Sasuke said:


> stop making unnecessary changes fggts



Its bad, but this is why our CP's exist 

Stop complaining and post moar


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## ~M~ (Feb 26, 2016)

dude


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## Garfield (Feb 26, 2016)

I don't understand the strategy where you solve popular issues without popular opinion. Shouldn't this have been a larger discussion with people rather than just mostly inactive mods behind closed doors?


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## Krory (Feb 26, 2016)

Garfield said:


> I don't understand the strategy where you solve popular issues without popular opinion. Shouldn't this have been a larger discussion with people rather than just mostly inactive mods behind closed doors?



That's cute, you think mod decisions ever hinged on member opinion.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 26, 2016)

Garfield said:


> I don't understand the strategy where you solve popular issues without popular opinion. Shouldn't this have been a larger discussion with people rather than just mostly inactive mods behind closed doors?


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## ~M~ (Feb 26, 2016)

Garfield said:


> I don't understand the strategy where you solve popular issues without popular opinion. Shouldn't this have been a larger discussion with people rather than just mostly inactive mods behind closed doors?



That would involve having a representative body of some sort 

A republic of some order 

You're in the wrong place


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## ~M~ (Feb 26, 2016)

btw don't worry they're NOT inactive behind those closed doors just trust me


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## Imagine (Feb 26, 2016)

Jet

Fix

Pls


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## Enclave (Feb 26, 2016)

If you think the Caf? is unruly and thus you put it out of sight like that then give it some decent moderation, you'll probably find most in that section would welcome having some decent modding going on.


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## Krory (Feb 26, 2016)

staff face when literally everyone thinks this is the worst decision in history:


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## LesExit (Feb 26, 2016)

This new layout makes me very uncomfortable D:....it feels so off.

I'm so confused as to why the cafe was moved so far down...


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## Xiammes (Feb 26, 2016)

>not subscribing to the sections


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## Gunners (Feb 26, 2016)

What fucking idiot played a role in this shit?


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## JoJo (Feb 26, 2016)

A U T I S M
U
T
I
S
M


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## Seraphiel (Feb 26, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> >not subscribing to the sections



not now not eva :scorpy


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## Krory (Feb 26, 2016)

I miss Blue because you know he'd be the one staff member to actually have the balls to come out and say how stupid this is without remaining quiet or smiling and nodding for conformity.


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## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

Let's signal him


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## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 27, 2016)

RYUKO A SHIT


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

RYUKO A SHIT


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

inb4 we accidentally summon Trin instead


Way to go, Wad.


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> >not subscribing to the sections


>telling everyone to use niche tools instead of just giving us a good organization

We know you endorsed this reorgo, Xiammes. -.-


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## Sōsuke Aizen (Feb 27, 2016)

I don't think I can go down that low to where the cafe is.


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## Xiammes (Feb 27, 2016)

jayjay?? said:


> >telling everyone to use niche tools instead of just giving us a good organization
> 
> We know you endorsed this reorgo, Xiammes. -.-



>subscribing
>niche tool

Next you are going to tell me that ignore function is a niche tool.


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## eHav (Feb 27, 2016)

yes lets bury 2 of the most active sections just above the recycling and landfill.. wth, in most forums i go to the "general" section is the one on top.


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## Island (Feb 27, 2016)

Jetstorm said:


> *The cafe is a wilder zone* and it was decided not to have it be one of the first sections you wander into upon accessing the forum.


And this couldn't possibly be because the guy who mods the section actively trolls it rather than enforces the rules, right?


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## Demetrius (Feb 27, 2016)

WAD said:


> RYUKO A SHIT





Rey said:


> RYUKO A SHIT





Rey said:


> inb4 we accidentally summon Trin instead
> 
> 
> Way to go, Wad.


You're  terrible people and you should die.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 27, 2016)

tru


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## Seraphiel (Feb 27, 2016)

TRU


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> >subscribing
> >niche tool
> 
> Next you are going to tell me that ignore function is a niche tool.


Thanks for making it apparent that you endorsed this abomination of an update. 

I know you don't even like this shit but you supported it to get that s-mod promotion down the road. -.-

Like Kitsune, ane, and Trinity, this is why you're losing friends. 

Back in the day, when you wanted to get promoted, you told 99% of the staff to fuck off with their bullshit. Look at how far that strategy took Dream. 

Look at how desperate you are, Xiammes. Just a chess piece for Jetstorm to play whenever he needs to.


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## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

WAD said:


> RYUKO A SHIT





Rey said:


> RYUKO A SHIT





Rey said:


> inb4 we accidentally summon Trin instead
> 
> 
> Way to go, Wad.





Trinity said:


> You're  terrible people and you should die.



Was worth a shot


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Trinity said:


> You're  terrible people and you should die.



Say that to my face, witch.


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## Demetrius (Feb 27, 2016)

Rey said:


> Say that to my face, witch.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

How did the FCs not wind up in the outskirts, too? They belong there more than the Cafe.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Well then.

I should have seen that coming.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

sorry but I can't abide by some of these questionable changes 

numero uno, the ad board is a disgrace to this change, regardless of intent, the placement of the ad board suggests a clear signal that "we want activity, come here and advertise your shit". It shouldn't be one of the first sections you see and it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the other sections in Anbu Central which have to do with forum maintenance. I'm willing to believe that the recruit section fits in nicely into the overarching theme of Anbu Central, but the ad board absolutely does not, that shit needs to go back to the outskirts from whence it came.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Why are these two separate sections?


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## Impact (Feb 27, 2016)

>Konoha ad board 

Why do we even still have that section?

They really couldn't pick a better placement for that section?


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Impact said:


> >Konoha ad board
> 
> Why do we even still have that section?
> 
> They really couldn't pick a better placement for that section?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

Secondly, the cafe needs to be swapped with the bathhouse post haste, thematically alone this would make more sense but beyond that it congregates quote unquote real life sections together under one banner "Downtown Konoha" and also shuffles the Bathhouse, which is a low activity, pornography section (aka a special interest section) into the special interest super section that is The Outskirts.

I personally would also argue the Blender belongs in the Downtown Konoha supersection too but whatever, thats up to the blenderites to address. It's basically a grown up Chatterbox, so wherever the chatterbox is the Blender should be imo, there's no reason for it to be in the outskirts at all.


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## Catamount (Feb 27, 2016)

Omfg a 4th page while I was still reading the first 

While you guys at it may also delete Respect Dome, freaks me out with the smell of death each time it appears in the new posts. Like once in 2-3 months.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

I pointed out earlier, I think in this thread, there are FIVE THOUSAND THREADS in Konoha Ad Board

Each and everyone of those could have been used to give activity to one of the following:

Lit Section
Music Section
Art Section
Arcade
Roleplaying

But no, instead of trying to generate some kind of activity and encourage members to reach out and talk about stuff they say, "hey, you got something to dump just dump it here so people can't look."

And then wonder and complain why their sections are dying and begging members for help on how to make it better.


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## Xiammes (Feb 27, 2016)

jayjay?? said:


> Thanks for making it apparent that you endorsed this abomination of an update.
> 
> I know you don't even like this shit but you supported it to get that s-mod promotion down the road. -.-
> 
> ...





I supported moving things around because newbies don't need to wander into areas like the Blender or Cafe and get scared off anymore.

To be honest we could suck your dick and finger your butthole and you would still complain. Use the subscribe feature and don't look at the front page if you hate it so much.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

Adamant said:


> Omfg a 4th page while I was still reading the first
> 
> While you guys at it may also delete Respect Dome, freaks me out with the smell of death each time it appears in the new posts. Like once in 2-3 months.



don't be dumb plsu

I'd ideally like to have a level (dont meme me about this its possible) conversation with the staff about the whole thing

maybe this is the wrong thread for it


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

But someone seriously, explain Akihabara to me.

We have:

*AKIHABARA DISTRICT*

and

*AKIHABARA GALLERY*

Now aside from the arbitrary contest thread in the Gallery (again, why is the Art section dying!?), there's five sections dedicated to individual series in the gallery. Oh. Okay, so the Gallery is for SPECIFIC series and the District is for general stuff, right?



Well fuck me, I don't even know anymore.


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> I supported moving things around because newbies don't need to wander into the Blender or Cafe and get scared off anymore.
> 
> To be honest we could suck your dick and finger your butthole and you would still complain. Use the subscribe feature and don't look at the front page if you hate it so much.


This is why nobody takes the staff seriously. You guys have the perspective and debate skills of children. The once-great Xiammes is either acting like one to fit in or became one in a matter of months. 

And what a dumb reason. If you don't want to scare newbies off, then start enforcing rules properly. Funny how newbies weren't getting scared off during NF's prime, then again, *prime NF had a staff who were actually enforcing rules.*


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

It's like I said, they'd literally rather let the Cafe be known as a troll section than try to enforce rules.

That's why people get away with calling each other "^ (use bro)" and "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" without repercussion (and not in the typical joking way, as in, "Only a stupid fucking ^ (use bro) voted for Obama"-type posts). Nobody even checks sources anymore, half the front page uses blogs as sources right now.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

point three

At this current juncture I see no reason for the Akihabara Distract and Gallery to be separate from one another, they should be combined. They're modded by the same group of people, they're about the same thing, and the district only has two sections in it, the only other section this small is Konoha Sanitation and that isn't a salient example for obvious reasons.

If you combine the Gallery and the District then it allows for ease of use by both long time members and anyone new and really just makes more sense than having the district off to the side somewhere.

Alternatively, if combining them isn't an option for whatever reason, I'd really press you to explain why the DISTRICT is on top of the GALLERY, at the very, very least they should probably be swapped.


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## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

Give Dartg the power to fix this mess. 

Then demote her back to a regular joe


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Fun fact of just how dead a section like Reader's Corner/Lit Department is: I made a thread in there by mistake meant for the Cafe over two days ago, and it's still there.


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Rey said:


> It's like I said, they'd literally rather let the Cafe be known as a troll section than try to enforce rules.
> 
> That's why people get away with calling each other "^ (use bro)" and "^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" without repercussion (and not in the typical joking way, as in, "Only a stupid fucking ^ (use bro) voted for Obama"-type posts). Nobody even checks sources anymore, half the front page uses blogs as sources right now.


Administrators are so scared to touch a mod's section directly or tell them how to mod correctly that they've resorted to hiding their section from the public eye. 

What a great forum.


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## Xiammes (Feb 27, 2016)

Rey said:


> But someone seriously, explain Akihabara to me.
> 
> We have:
> 
> ...




The gallery is for series we are trying to promote with front page attention. Series like One Punch Man and Gundam don't have a consistent weekly schedule but we still want to promote them.


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

And by the way, ignoring the complaints/criticisms is the last thing you should be doing when this forum is slowly dying and you rely on the regulars to ensure that this titanic doesn't suddenly sink faster than it should.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

X I A M M E S
A
N
A
D
U


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

And if you're a mod who is scared to talk because your administrative overlords are going to think poorly of you, just quit tonight. Nobody needs you and there's plenty of terrible replacements for your dying section.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

I don't have an exact specific fourth argument but I have a general feeling I can't put into words that some of these section placements are subtly off

e.g art section above outskirts+konoha mall


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## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

A D M I N D A R T G


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Nighty said:


> sorry but I can't abide by some of these questionable changes
> 
> numero uno, the ad board is a disgrace to this change, regardless of intent, the placement of the ad board suggests a clear signal that "we want activity, come here and advertise your shit". It shouldn't be one of the first sections you see and it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the other sections in Anbu Central which have to do with forum maintenance. I'm willing to believe that the recruit section fits in nicely into the overarching theme of Anbu Central, but the ad board absolutely does not, that shit needs to go back to the outskirts from whence it came.





Nighty said:


> Secondly, the cafe needs to be swapped with the bathhouse post haste, thematically alone this would make more sense but beyond that it congregates quote unquote real life sections together under one banner "Downtown Konoha" and also shuffles the Bathhouse, which is a low activity, pornography section (aka a special interest section) into the special interest super section that is The Outskirts.
> 
> I personally would also argue the Blender belongs in the Downtown Konoha supersection too but whatever, thats up to the blenderites to address. It's basically a grown up Chatterbox, so wherever the chatterbox is the Blender should be imo, there's no reason for it to be in the outskirts at all.





Nighty said:


> don't be dumb plsu
> 
> I'd ideally like to have a level (dont meme me about this its possible) conversation with the staff about the whole thing
> 
> maybe this is the wrong thread for it





Nighty said:


> point three
> 
> At this current juncture I see no reason for the Akihabara Distract and Gallery to be separate from one another, they should be combined. They're modded by the same group of people, they're about the same thing, and the district only has two sections in it, the only other section this small is Konoha Sanitation and that isn't a salient example for obvious reasons.
> 
> ...





Nighty said:


> I don't have an exact specific fourth argument but I have a general feeling I can't put into words that some of these section placements are subtly off
> 
> e.g art section above outskirts+konoha mall






combined post for ur perusal

pls get back to me asap


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

HINT: Putting the troll sections below the art place won't give it the activity you guys want.

Art section is dying because...

1) People are getting tired of NF

2) General userbase is less hospitable

3) Other sections are taking activity away

This is all common sense shit that people won't admit is happening and keep insisting, "There must be some way to fix it!"


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## Xiammes (Feb 27, 2016)

jayjay?? said:


> This is why nobody takes the staff seriously. You guys have the perspective and debate skills of children. The once-great Xiammes is either acting like one to fit in or became one in a matter of months.
> 
> And what a dumb reason. If you don't want to scare newbies off, then start enforcing rules properly. Funny how newbies weren't getting scared off during NF's prime, then again, *prime NF had a staff who were actually enforcing rules.*



We like to accommodate everyone, we have our shitpost sections(CB, Blender) and we have our non shitpost sections(KCC). Even if we started a major crackdown on the wild sections, people would still complain.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

>Nighty trying to be nice and respectable like people actually gonna listen

You poor delusional child.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

[YOUTUBE]YLO7tCdBVrA[/YOUTUBE]

I believe


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> We like to accommodate everyone, we have our shitpost sections(CB, Blender) and we have our non shitpost sections(KCC). Even if we started a major crackdown on the wild sections, people would still complain.


I have said it plenty of times.  If you guys enforced the global rules exactly how they were written for every single section, less members would be punished in the long run. This Blender/4chan-derived "gray area" the staff created for trolls is the source of all the issues here.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

"But... but... enforce rules?! That sounds so hard!"


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## Atlas (Feb 27, 2016)

AdminJJ When?


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## Xiammes (Feb 27, 2016)

Different sections have different cultures, enforcing the rules across the board would be disastrous. Line for line rule enforcement would mean giving infractions for small shit, posting your reaction would net you with a warning. You don't want that, I don't want that.


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> Different sections have different cultures, enforcing the rules across the board would be disastrous. Line for line rule enforcement would mean giving infractions for small shit, posting your reaction would net you with a warning. You don't want that, I don't want that.


Lmfao, but that's *EXACTLY *what I want, Xiammes.  I only want to know one set of rules and follow it - every forum on the internet has this exact same policy.


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## Xiammes (Feb 27, 2016)

jayjay?? said:


> Lmfao, but that's *EXACTLY *what I want, Xiammes.  I only want to know one set of rules and follow it - every forum on the internet has this exact same policy.




>Man why does the America have so many different sets of laws
>All Towns, cities and states should have the same laws


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 27, 2016)

Blue would probably flip his lid if he logged on and saw that happening. Might be worth it for that alone.


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## Demetrius (Feb 27, 2016)

I am going to address some complaints in this thread with my very best efforts. I'm not going to tell you you'll like my answers, of course.

*Why the hell did you guys move it?! We are your userbase and we're the ones keeping this site from dying.*
Very true.

But a defeatist attitude is something that the staff refuses to carry concerning the 'death of the site', as you seem to put it. It's best we act now for new memberships than later where we're down to 100 active users per day. This doesn't _ever_ - and I want you guys to know, so listen - _ever_ mean you guys are not important in the activity levels right now. You play such a vital role in the activity now, and I'm happy alot of you have stayed.
The thing is (this thread being an example out of many things), a lot of you guys are comfortable with being vocal and you find yourselves despondent quite frequently. This is because alot of you already have a broken relationship with staff and it all goes back to the us vs them attitude. However, visitors do not. 

Visitors see the site as a tool for discussion and information; members view the site as a tight-knit community with years of rich history.  They don't see it as you guys do, and we want to give them that chance to be apart of it. The attitude and hostility toward staff can be theirs, too! if we give them an _opening_ to do so. 
This, what's happening right now, lacks context to them. If they open this thread right now with their new account after they create their Intro thread without knowledge on the culture NF, they'll become increasingly petrified resulting in their permanent disappearance. A lot of this hurts the future activity levels of the site more than you realize. 

Which brings me to the next thing..

*Just enforce the global rules, you retards. *
Let's use Xiammes word: accommodation. 

You guys won't like the global rules because there has been a gray area ever since this site was created. Sure, you think it's a great, wonderful idea now but when you see 3 CB threads lock or 19 posts deleted to follow the global rules to remain consistent and establish an overall modding style, you're going to get_ very _pissed. You're going to get disgruntled, aggravated, and generally discouraged.  

But see - the rules apply to all, but _how_ we moderate accommodates alot of the members currently. That's the fact of the matter.

Or else you have .

Yeah, that. You're going to have Q&C!Preet levels  of moderation throughout the sections you visit frequently and it won't be any less dumb in your eyes ("BUT ARE THERE ANY NF USERS ON HERE OR WHAT?" "DON'T ADVERTISE. ADVERTISING IS AGAINST THE RULES."), 10x more SCR threads in the process, and a lot less activity from you guys in the longrun. The sections you love will be dribbling with shit and modding competence. Or incompetence. You may choose whatever one you deem suitable. 

You can compare other forums to NF all you want, you're not going to like the rules regardless. The rebel in you is ready to go against the grain because that's who you are. 
*
The Adboard is an eyesore.*
So are you.

Reznor can explain how it generates cross-traffic to you in a matter of seconds. I can't. Is this_ really_ a good reason for it? Nah. Is it beneficial? Yes, in some way. Is it a permanent change? It doesn't have to be.
*
Akihabubba and things. What gives?*
Ask Xiammes.
*
Why is the Bathhouse standing in the/me way in the section after years of not being able to openly view porn and dick pics on this site? *
Ask Kitsune.


----------



## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

Did Garfield just get bodied?


----------



## Demetrius (Feb 27, 2016)

That's...not at all what I meant.


----------



## Garfield (Feb 27, 2016)

Na, I just deleted my post because I think it's not contributing to the discussion.

Look, here's the thing. You mods yourself complain or have complained about tazoo or mbxx because they came in and did stuff without any foretelling or involving you and from then on everyone has to just deal with it. From a member viewpoint, normal staff increasingly is no different. Changes just seem to happen without member involvement and members just have to deal with it. If that doesn't seem like hypocrisy, tell me.


----------



## Demetrius (Feb 27, 2016)

We can talk it out if you want. But it still comes down to that disconnect between regulars and staff and there's really no general agreement that's reached--alot of the way we communicate is flawed on both sides, imo. And yeah, it's not the best place for this discussion but it is still important and one thing to reflect upon on the current sentiments.


----------



## Enclave (Feb 27, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> I supported moving things around because newbies don't need to wander into areas like the Blender or Cafe and get scared off anymore.
> 
> To be honest we could suck your dick and finger your butthole and you would still complain. Use the subscribe feature and don't look at the front page if you hate it so much.



Then give those sections mods who will actually moderate.  Get rid of Mega as mod of the Caf?.  Get somebody who will actually do the job.  He's one of the biggest trolls on the board.

If the Caf? was properly moderated then perhaps it wouldn't threaten to scare away newbies.


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

> You guys won't like the global rules because there has been a gray area ever since this site was created. Sure, you think it's a great, wonderful idea now but when you see 3 CB threads lock or 19 posts deleted to follow the global rules to remain consistent and establish an overall modding style, you're going to get very pissed. You're going to get disgruntled, aggravated, and generally discouraged.



This is not true for the Cafe - it USED to be moderated. You couldn't get away with the language you could now, sources had to be vetted, garbage topics in general were trashed and not just garbage topics that offend the sensibilities of the current mod at hand. We've had people using sources that were disallowed even by Mega previously due to his "crackdown" and horribly skewed presentations because the "source" is actually an opinionated editorial.

Honestly, more and more it seems like what Mega said is true and that the higher-up staff is afraid of dealing with him instead of actually just enforcing the rules that used to be enforced there.



> Visitors see the site as a tool for discussion and information; members view the site as a tight-knit community with years of rich history. They don't see it as you guys do, and we want to give them that chance to be apart of it. The attitude and hostility toward staff can be theirs, too! if we give them an opening to do so.
> This, what's happening right now, lacks context to them. If they open this thread right now with their new account after they create their Intro thread without knowledge on the culture NF, they'll become increasingly petrified resulting in their permanent disappearance. A lot of this hurts the future activity levels of the site more than you realize.



This explains the Blender, and maybe the Cafe since it's no longer moderated, but what about the Chatterbox?


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 27, 2016)

ive decided

that its not really a big deal


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

The Cafe *is* a hostile place, yes, but that's because it was allowed to become such.

This is the section where a member came back from his "sabbatical" and the first thing he did was literally just post in reply to another member and say, "You're a stupid fucking ^ (use bro)."

And now it has become a common practice.

It wasn't years ago, and it doesn't NEED to be anymore - it's just, again, it's allowed to be and I'm willing to bet more people than not wouldn't mind it going back to something more friendly.

Especially if the alternative is to drop it down to a place where, let's face it, nobody is going to go. That's why it's there. That's why the Blender is there, the OBD, the Mafia, the Roleplaying section. Most of these have been on their way out and it feels like it's just a way to shake them off somewhere where people don't have to worry about it.


----------



## Wolfarus (Feb 27, 2016)

1. Put cafe back up near the top, instead of the filler in the shit sandwich that it's currently operating as.

2. Mod me for cafe. Mega needs somebody to balance his overly-trollish attitude and general prejudice's. As i give few to no shits for 99% of the human population, this naturally includes their agenda's and a full spectrum of their views, ideas, and so on - i'm naturally neutral and thus a good balance for him.

3. Cafe now has it's minimum 2 mods, and would have a much better chance of returning to SOME resemblance of a proper news/education/debate section.

Though admittedly my time available would be spotty (mostly available very late nights for a cple hours, pacific time). But it's a start. Get a cple more of these p/t admins onboard and the section would be back on it's feet.

Then we could retire mega to the baked goods store he always wanted to run, but never had the time to


----------



## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

Just revert it back to how it originally was


----------



## Wolfarus (Feb 27, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Just revert it back to how it originally was



Even if they did that, the cafe still needs to be attended too


----------



## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

They can do that, sure.


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

I don't know about Wolfarus but if he'd be willing to put forth the work, I'd say baconbits to mod the section.

Though I know he's got a lot on his plate as it is IRL.

But there's no regular there suitable enough to handle it, but as it is Mega is the least capable especially since he's gone off the deepend and now claims he DOES mod and regulate shit when we still have double threads, shit sources, rampant flaming, and of course the "meme picture replies" he insisted would get people banned (which never happened to begin with). All of which I can attest to because I have done it without so much as a _warning_.


----------



## Enclave (Feb 27, 2016)

Rey said:


> But there's no regular there suitable enough to handle it



There's a few of us regulars who could handle it, the real question is out of those who could who would actually want to?

Personally?  I could probably handle it and yet I do NOT have the time to be a full time mod.  Hell, as much as I disagree with you on a lot of issues?  You could also probably handle it.  It just takes enforcing the rules even when somebody says something you don't like but is something that's perfectly in-line with the rules.

Regardless though, Mega is a huge problem and largely responsible for the section becoming garbage.


----------



## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

Garfield said:


> Na, I just deleted my post because I think it's not contributing to the discussion.
> 
> Look, here's the thing. You mods yourself complain or have complained about tazoo or mbxx because they came in and did stuff without any foretelling or involving you and from then on everyone has to just deal with it. From a member viewpoint, normal staff increasingly is no different. Changes just seem to happen without member involvement and members just have to deal with it. If that doesn't seem like hypocrisy, tell me.



Well

You're not wrong

I'm just one guy with an amazing avatar no one has commented on yet but surely everyone is just stricken dead in the brain and unable to put into words their awe  and I can't speak for everyone or even do shit just because I can without upsetting someone somewhere sometime but... How would all of you organize the sections? I'm genuinely curious and the order can be changed whenever if most are fine with it (I hope/think/believe) so hey, it's not too late


----------



## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

Like massive fucking footnote goes here: I'm asking, not guaranteeing or even promising, ok


----------



## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

Awesome ava Kenny


----------



## Wolfarus (Feb 27, 2016)

As i think cafe is prob one of the busiest sections we have left, even 1 new mod wont be able to handle it, i agree.

Hence my suggestion to bring in a cple new mods for it, so there's better coverage. Will it be covered 24/7? prob not. But get..say..2-4 new mods, picked from members that the staff think can handle it, then see how it works out.

Nobody says these new mods will get to stay mods if they fuck it up, and if mega is truly as bad as you think he is, then the section needs all the new (mod) blood it can get until the dust settles. 

Of course before these people are publicly modded, it'd prob be a good idea to have a pow-wow w/ the smods to decide on a set of rules for the cafe, and these need to be adhered too.


----------



## Xiammes (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth your Username fucks up the currently active user list and you should feel bad.


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Enclave said:


> There's a few of us regulars who could handle it, the real question is out of those who could who would actually want to?
> 
> Personally?  I could probably handle it and yet I do NOT have the time for it.  Hell, as much as I disagree with you on a lot of issues?  You could also probably handle it.  It just takes enforcing the rules even when somebody says something you don't like but is something that's perfectly in-line with the rules.
> 
> Regardless though, Mega is a huge problem and largely responsible for the section becoming garbage.



I would sooner trust Flow than you with modship.




Kenneth said:


> Well
> 
> You're not wrong
> 
> I'm just one guy with an amazing avatar no one has commented on yet but surely everyone is just stricken dead in the brain and unable to put into words their awe  and I can't speak for everyone or even do shit just because I can without upsetting someone somewhere sometime but... How would all of you organize the sections? I'm genuinely curious and the order can be changed whenever if most are fine with it (I hope/think/believe) so hey, it's not too late





Kenneth said:


> Like massive fucking footnote goes here: I'm asking, not guaranteeing or even promising, ok



I've said tons of shit to you that you did not reply to. 

And I don't think it needed to be changed in the first place but if anything maybe just go ahead and leave ANBU Central at the top, and do something about the Akihabara sections because there is no way all those series need those individual sections, nor do they need to be split up between "District" and "Gallery." 

Also I'm still heavily against the Ad Board when mods of dying sections keep pressuring for more activity when people would rather drop stuff there.


----------



## Enclave (Feb 27, 2016)

Anyways, I work in the morning so I need to get to bed.

I stress though, the Cafe needs more modding, dumping it at the bottom of the board list will probably do nothing but make it even worse.



Rey said:


> I would sooner trust Flow than you with modship.



Heh, that's just because we don't agree on damn near anything.  Thing is?  When you're a mod you need to be able to put aside your own personal stance and moderate in an unbiased manner.  It's not hard to do and there are people in the Cafe that could certainly do it.  You thinking I couldn't do that just shows that you don't know much about me, which is fine since we have rather opposed views and do not like each other.


----------



## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> Kenneth your Username fucks up the currently active user list and you should feel bad.


Greatness does not come without sacrifice

You are that sacrifice


Rey said:


> I would sooner trust Flow than you with modship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In my defense I definitely did say hi at least once

Ad board in and of itself is pretty dumb, I'd rather see it go away forever because who cares


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Also, for the love of God, just put the Trading Post out of its misery. Only thread that's had posts within the last year is Media Request, those posts go all the way back to December on the last page with ONLY requests, not a single fill.

It's time to put the bullet in Old  Yeller.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 27, 2016)

Krory went full SJW after seeing Star Wars, he now wants to censor the mean words. The meme is real. Don't take your children to see that movie.


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> Greatness does not come without sacrifice
> 
> You are that sacrifice
> In my defense I definitely did say hi at least once
> ...



We have people advertising their stories and books that could go to Reader's Corner, people advertising their games that could go to the Arcade or maybe even Art Exhibition, maybe even Roleplaying, someone is advertising their own new manga online... like, that's just the first page of over 5000 threads.

And people wonder where all the (potential) activity and new posts are going. RIP. Guarantee someone posting about their new manga is more likely to get a response in the art section than in an adboard.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> How would all of you organize the sections? I'm genuinely curious and the order can be changed whenever if most are fine with it (I hope/think/believe) so hey, it's not too late





Nighty said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Gunners (Feb 27, 2016)

The changes look like the handiwork of an inept teenager who is trying to make a simple job look more complicated than it actually is. In terms of user experience, the changes are negligible but they are just incredibly dumb. The front of the forum is cluttered with inactive and unappealing subsections, and the Cafe has been placed in a section outside of its theme.


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Gunners said:


> The changes look like the handiwork of an inept teenager who is trying to make a simple job look more complicated than it actually is. In terms of user experience, the changes are negligible but they are just incredibly dumb. The front of the forum is cluttered with inactive and unappealing subsections, and the Cafe has been placed in a section outside of its theme.



The problem is it actually IS placed with what it's "theme" is considered these days. It's deemed an extremely hostile place that is not friendly and where rules are not enforced or even given into consideration. That's why it's lumped with the Blender and OBD. As Xiammes said, they don't want the Cafe to scare off new people.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 27, 2016)

As a member of 11 years on this forum i hate these changes more than anything ive experinced on NF that includes the FAnclub lockdown and purge which basicly took so long that most members who were active in those threads walked away from NF and destroyed the communites there ! Shame shame on staff


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## Megaharrison (Feb 27, 2016)

Worst thing staff ever did was still ban KY those threads were hilarious


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## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

Nighty said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That sounds pretty good tbh fam imo

I'll link to your post so the guys can see it and reply too


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Is there any reason not to arrange the sections by activity/importance? If the problem is toxicity levels within certain subforums, then that's what you should fix, instead of just pushing them down to hide your shame.


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## Blunt (Feb 27, 2016)

put the shit back the way it was


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Nello said:


> Is there any reason not to arrange the sections by activity/importance? If the problem is toxicity levels within certain subforums, then that's what you should fix, instead of just pushing them down to hide your shame.



Mod this guy


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

ty kenny


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Rey said:


> Mod this guy



I will take on everyone's hatred 

But seriously there are probably more qualified/active people out there


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

And mod Nighty, too.

Let them run the Cafe.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Nello said:


> I will take on everyone's hatred
> 
> But seriously there are probably more qualified/active people out there



It'd be very difficult for most places to take a step _down_ in their moderator representation.


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 27, 2016)

How about we mod krory and make him cafe sub-mod. I wanna tickle his jimmies.


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Rey said:


> It'd be very difficult for most places to take a step _down_ in their moderator representation.



What about that shadow dude from Sweden/China? He seems pretty decent and active.


----------



## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

Blunt said:


> put the shit back the way it was



Listen to Blunt. He's white


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Nello said:


> What about that shadow dude from Sweden/China? He seems pretty decent and active.



He's kind of like bacon, seems pretty cool but on very rare occasions can come across very opinionated and I'm not sure how he'd be able to translate that into modship.

But it's not like that's ever stopped them from modding someone before.


----------



## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

Is it even possible to be some kind of presence in the caf? and not appear like you have an opinion or leaning to some side

Yes
But it's crazy hard
Probably

I say we hire one trump guy and a bernie guy and maybe some other random dude and we let everyone watch the ensuing carnage

6 bucks a ticket to watch this show so I can feed my family which definitely exists, this is not a scam


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> Is it even possible to be some kind of presence in the caf? and not appear like you have an opinion or leaning to some side
> 
> Yes
> But it's crazy hard
> ...



I was thinking about that because Mega looks like a pretty hardcore Trump supporter and KidTony is in love with Bernie so you could make it happen


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> Is it even possible to be some kind of presence in the caf? and not appear like you have an opinion or leaning to some side
> 
> Yes
> But it's crazy hard
> ...



True, everyone's gonna have an opinion but I like to think some people could still manage to at least keep up on some factual things such as stopping straight-up flaming (especially when said flaming contributes nothing to the topic), or poor sources.




Nello said:


> I was thinking about that because Mega looks like a pretty hardcore Trump supporter and KidTony is in love with Bernie so you could make it happen



Dear God, you would doom us all!


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Like shit at that point, why not just make Mael and Son of Goku/Sousuke Aizen the mods.  Holy shit. That would be horrifying.


----------



## Garfield (Feb 27, 2016)

I mean, it's not like there don't exist very good examples of cafe mods. Toby and The Space Cowboy come to mind.


----------



## Enclave (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> Is it even possible to be some kind of presence in the caf? and not appear like you have an opinion or leaning to some side
> 
> Yes
> But it's crazy hard
> ...



Bah, can't sleep, fact is that everybody in the Cafe is opinionated, considering the subject matter it's unavoidable as everybody is opinionated on at least some subjects. 

Having opinions though is irrelevant, you need a mod that can put their opinions aside when enforcing the rules. I'm sure a number of people can do this, hell even Mega used to do it years ago. 

It'll take some effort on the part of the mods and admins here to review Cafe modding to ensure if they add another mod or two that they are enforcing rules instead of playing favourites but I'm certain getting the Cafe under control is more than possible.


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Garfield said:


> I mean, it's not like there don't exist very good examples of cafe mods. Toby and The Space Cowboy come to mind.



I nominate adee.

Whatever happened to that guy?


----------



## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

Garfield said:


> I mean, it's not like there don't exist very good examples of cafe mods. Toby and The Space Cowboy come to mind.


Don't make me miss toby
That's just not fair



Enclave said:


> Bah, can't sleep, fact is that everybody in the Cafe is opinionated, considering the subject matter it's unavoidable as everybody is opinionated on at least some subjects.
> 
> Having opinions though is irrelevant, you need a mod that can put their opinions aside when enforcing the rules. I'm sure a number of people can do this, hell even Mega used to do it years ago.
> 
> It'll take some effort on the part of the mods and admins here to review Cafe modding to ensure if they add another mod or two that they are enforcing rules instead of playing favourites but I'm certain getting the Cafe under control is more than possible.


Go to sleep, this isn't worth getting tired over and will be here when you wake up

Also, that wasn't the way I intended for my comment to come across, I share your view on this one

... I should also sleep but I already sacrificed much of my night to doing fuck all besides checking reddit and NF


----------



## Enclave (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> Don't make me miss toby
> That's just not fair
> 
> Go to sleep, this isn't worth getting tired over and will be here when you wake up
> ...



Oh this isn't why I can't sleep, it's just an outlet to help me go to sleep. What caused my insomnia is a combination of having a 6 month old daughter who wakes up periodically and the stress of having just bought a home which I take possession of in May.


----------



## Wolfarus (Feb 27, 2016)

Enclave said:


> ..having just bought a home which I take *possession *of in May.



Whenever i hear somebody say that, i always imagine that the bank foreclosed on somebody who was laid off at his job, because the executives are cutting back costs in all area's but their own salaries/benefits, and you happen along w/ your $ and take this family's roof away from them.

You monster


----------



## Enclave (Feb 27, 2016)

Wolfarus said:


> Whenever i hear somebody say that, i always imagine that the bank foreclosed on somebody who was laid off at his job, because the executives are cutting back costs in all area's but their own salaries/benefits, and you happen along w/ your $ and take this family's roof away from them.
> 
> You monster



Lol, in this case? It's because the family that lives there is just too big for the home now that they have a new baby, they needed to sell to upgrade. It's a great location though for my family, very child friendly area and a good elementary school literally a 3 min walk from it.


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 27, 2016)

Also, for as long as the forums are called "NarutoForums" I think the Naruto section should symbolically go on top, directly after ANBU Central. But maybe re-organize it internally to put Konoha TV above Konoha Library, since the manga is (currently) over and the anime is the main outlet for Naruto now.

House of Uzumaki could really be merged into Konoha TV I think. Isn't it ultimately just a question of "does it have manga spoilers or not?" If yes, then Library, if no, then TV.

Then you sort the other sections be descending relevance to Naruto. So first One Piece and Bleach, then other manga/anime, then sections unrelated to either.

Which STILL shouldn't put the Caf? at the very bottom I think.


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Shouldn't we have had this discussion before the Great Shuffle?


----------



## Wolfarus (Feb 27, 2016)

Nello said:


> Shouldn't we have had this discussion before the Great Shuffle?



"You youngsters think you know suffering? know heartache and rage? Peh-shaw! I was around during the Gruffle..that's great shuffle for you little whippersnappers who need things spelled out nice and purty for your ears.. of 2016.

Lord Almighty, the ruccus and the shenannigans that took place! Sections were moved! Mods were shit on! At least 2 smods swore (later in court, mind) that was the day that they became sex offenders and drug dealers/addicts, with at least 13 counts of possession twixt' them.

And you know the darndest, gallopin' hornytoadiest thing of them all?

Mega still hasnt been replaced in the cafe as a mod.."


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

I think the Academy could use a friendlier vibe too.

My reshuffle suggestions:

Move Anbu Central to the bottom
Move Downtown Konoha to the top
Move Academy Registration to Downtown Konoha
Move the Caf? to Downtown Konoha
Move Konoha Country Club to Outskirts of Konoha
Move Outskirts Battledome to Downtown Konoha (rename to Grand Battledome?)
Merge Akihabara District + Gallery
Make Akihabara Contests a subforum of Akihabara Library or wherever

Would this work with everyone? 
You probably want Konoha Times at the top, but you have Notices for that stuff anyway and you can link the thread there


----------



## Mizura (Feb 27, 2016)

- People whining because they want the news section at the top.
- Said news section being primarily populated by sensationalist news and opinionated users with rarely any specialized knowledge to share (I can only count a handful of such members).
- Said opinionated users complaining whenever attempts at moderating are made.
- Now complain that it's the mods' fault the section is a troll breeding ground.
- Now complain that anime/manga sections are at the top of an anime/manga forum (bar administrative sections, though I do agree they should be merged somewhat).

Now complain that the mods are illogical. Yeah whatever.


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> - People whining because they want the news section at the top.
> - Said news section being primarily populated by sensationalist news and opinionated users with rarely any specialized knowledge to share (I can only count a handful of such members).
> - Said opinionated users complaining whenever attempts at moderating are made.
> - Now complain that it's the mods' fault the section is a troll breeding ground.
> ...



Let's break the cynical circle and work together for a friendlier NF


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> - People whining because they want the news section at the top.
> - Said news section being primarily populated by sensationalist news and opinionated users with rarely any specialized knowledge to share (I can only count a handful of such members).
> - Said opinionated users complaining whenever attempts at moderating are made.
> - Now complain that it's the mods' fault the section is a troll breeding ground.
> ...



tfw didn't say any of this


----------



## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

The problem is that the change happened. Period


----------



## Illairen (Feb 27, 2016)

The most interesting sections...OBD and Cafe.... are at the bottom...right....



> The problem is it actually IS placed with what it's "theme" is considered these days. It's deemed an extremely hostile place that is not friendly and where rules are not enforced or even given into consideration. That's why it's lumped with the Blender and OBD. As Xiammes said, they don't want the Cafe to scare off new people.



Grow up. Stating a different opinion and arguing  is not being hostile. But well what did I expect...a few years ago I was active in the konoha library too...there you have hyperactive mods who censor you even for irony and sarcasm. I prefer the cafe/OBD mods.


----------



## Arcuya (Feb 27, 2016)

Nello said:


> I think the Academy could use a friendlier vibe too.
> 
> My reshuffle suggestions:
> 
> ...


You need to stop making suggestions nello


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Can you explain why? 

This forum has an extreme problem with cynicism, and not surprisingly this thread is full of complaints and very few solutions.


----------



## Mizura (Feb 27, 2016)

For those who need the proper explanation:

As a forum, NF needs to take new users into account as well, and new users come here to discuss manga and anime. If you add up the activity in all of the manga/anime sections, they far exceed any activity in the Cafe and Blender sections, so despite how much one insists on those sections being near the top, such an opinion is just a personal preference that's not warranted by the purpose of this forum.

At the same time, the Cafe is a rather aggressive section that is as likely to put off other users than it is to attract, while the Blender is an old clique. Those who want to frequent those sections will continue doing so. The rest, especially new users, will instead have easier access to the 'on-topic' sections.

tl:dr We're an anime/manga forum providing users with a place to discover and discuss old and new series, not a news discussion site or an exclusive club for a particular group of members.


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> For those who need the proper explanation:
> 
> As a forum, NF needs to take new users into account as well, and new users come here to discuss manga and anime. If you add up the activity in all of the manga/anime sections, they far exceed any activity in the Cafe and Blender sections, so despite how much one insists on those sections being near the top, such an opinion is just a personal preference that's not warranted by the purpose of this forum.
> 
> ...



I don't see why Anbu Central should be at the top though. It's just inefficient. And toxic forums shouldn't be hidden away when they have good potential, they should be properly moderated. And it doesn't seem all that strange to have a chit chat section at the top imo. After all the forum is primarily about its users. But I guess you could leave out the Caf? if that's never gonna work out.


----------



## Gunners (Feb 27, 2016)

It is more about putting the cafe in an out of place section. It was correctly grouped with sections that had a social theme. More over,  garbage sections have been placced at the top of the page.

Your post is focusing on what you can reason whilst ignoring the _issues_ you don't have an answer for.

Just a case of trying to validate shoddy work.


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

^ Which post are you referring to?


----------



## Mizura (Feb 27, 2016)

Nello said:


> I don't see why Anbu Central should be at the top though. It's just inefficient. And toxic forums shouldn't be hidden away when they have good potential, they should be properly moderated. And it doesn't seem all that strange to have a chit chat section at the top imo. After all the forum is primarily about its users. But I guess you could leave out the Caf? if that's never gonna work out.


They wanted to combine the Konoha Times and the rest of the forum-related sections. Personally I think some of those sections should be fused. And the thing is, the chit chat section (Blender) is mostly an old clique, insider sort of thing. Such people have no problem finding their section again and subscribing to it.



> It is more about putting the cafe in an out of place section.


So it should be fine if the cafe is moved back to Downtown? I don't have an opinion either way.



> More over, garbage sections have been placed at the top of the page.


There's only one section I know of that's garbage, and that one will be taken care of.


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## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

If you're that bothered by sections you don't care about being on top, click on the little minus at the top right of the category you don't like to hide it for the time being.


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## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> They wanted to combine the Konoha Times and the rest of the forum-related sections. Personally I think some of those sections should be fused. And the thing is, the chit chat section (Blender) is mostly an old clique, insider sort of thing. Such people have no problem finding their section again and subscribing to it.
> 
> 
> So it should be fine if the cafe is moved back to Downtown? I don't have an opinion either way.
> ...


I meant the Chatterbox more than anything when I said chit chat, but I would also include the FC section and the Caf? in that group.


Kenneth said:


> If you're that bothered by sections you don't care about being on top, click on the little minus at the top right of the category you don't like to hide it for the time being.



I'm not really bothered, i'm just trying to help


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Illairen said:


> The most interesting sections...OBD and Cafe.... are at the bottom...right....
> 
> 
> 
> Grow up. Stating a different opinion and arguing  is not being hostile. But well what did I expect...a few years ago I was active in the konoha library too...there you have hyperactive mods who censor you even for irony and sarcasm. I prefer the cafe/OBD mods.



You don't go in the Cafe much, do you? Pretty sure threatening someone, calling them a ^ (use bro), or making personal jokes about past life hardships over which presidential candidate they support is pretty hostile.

Regardless, this is literally what the staff thinks so talk to them.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> If you're that bothered by sections you don't care about being on top, click on the little minus at the top right of the category you don't like to hide it for the time being.



Which reminds me, Alt skin doesn't have that.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> For those who need the proper explanation:
> 
> As a forum, NF needs to take new users into account as well, and new users come here to discuss manga and anime. If you add up the activity in all of the manga/anime sections, they far exceed any activity in the Cafe and Blender sections, so despite how much one insists on those sections being near the top, such an opinion is just a personal preference that's not warranted by the purpose of this forum.
> 
> ...



tl;dr "We're still too lazy to get a REAL mod for the Cafe so let's just call it a troll section and be done with it."

You guys have mastered shirking responsibility. But hey, I'm sure putting a section that encourages people to go to OTHER FORUMS at the top, above a section with subsections dedicated to series half our otaku members have never even heard of, will bring in millions of new members.


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## Mizura (Feb 27, 2016)

Some sections are lose-lose propositions. If you mod more heavily, you get called a nazi. If you don't, it'd called shirking responsibility.

Regardless, there is zero reason for it to be prominently placed near the top. How the section is managed is independent of the fact that it doesn't have any reason to be on top.

> series half our otaku members have never even heard of

otaku / who've never heard of some the most popular new series ongoing right now


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## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> Some sections are lose-lose propositions. If you mod more heavily, you get called a nazi. If you don't, it'd called shirking responsibility.
> 
> Regardless, there is zero reason for it to be prominently placed near the top. How the section is managed is independent of the fact that it doesn't have any reason to be on top.
> 
> ...



What some people think about the mods doesn't matter, what matters is that you have a properly moderated and healthy forum. The Caf? in its current state is far from those things.

The reason is that you have busy forums at the top. It doesn't need to be at the very top but the alternative is that it goes below the next 5 sections. The ideal solution is to fix the Caf?, so why not give that a try before we drop the idea altogether. If it gets friendlier, we can review its position.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

"That's strange, dear, our normally well-adjusted son seems to have gotten rambunctious and disruptive and insulting in the past two years after we stopped doing any parenting whatsoever or paying any attention to him at all. What should we do, hon?"

"Fuck it, let the little retard keep running into walls, just hide him away from the neighbors so he doesn't embarrass us."


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## Gunners (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> So it should be fine if the cafe is moved back to Downtown? I don't have an opinion either way.



In my opinion, yes. It would fit with the theme of conversations typically held in person as opposed to standing out like a sore thumb in the Outskirts. 



> There's only one section I know of that's garbage, and that one will be taken care of.


Liberal use of the word garbage. The sections at the top are unappealing. 



Kenneth said:


> If you're that bothered by sections you don't care about being on top, click on the little minus at the top right of the category you don't like to hide it for the time being.



A bit of a flippant approach towards feedback. I don't think it matters whether or not the layout bothers me, or any one individual, because you cannot please everyone. However, I think it is idiotic not to take into consideration the criticism of the new layout as there is a good chance that newer members will feel the same way. 

If you stepped into a building, you wouldn't expect to be confronted with their complaints box, health and safety guidelines, ad board etc. It is gaudy and starts things off on the wrong note.


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## Enclave (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> Some sections are lose-lose propositions. If you mod more heavily, you get called a nazi. If you don't, it'd called shirking responsibility.
> 
> Regardless, there is zero reason for it to be prominently placed near the top. How the section is managed is independent of the fact that it doesn't have any reason to be on top.
> 
> ...



Yes, there would initially be some pushback in the manner you speak of with regards to actually moderating the Cafe but it would be temporary, people would get used to actually having rules to follow and would do so.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Enclave said:


> Yes, there would initially be some pushback in the manner you speak of with regards to actually moderating the Cafe but it would be temporary, people would get used to actually having rules to follow and would do so.



What baffles me is people seem to think the Cafe has always been like this.

_It has not._

Like seriously, is someone going to have to drag Dan in here to educate these people on how things were? I mean it wasn't that fucking long ago.


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## Raidoton (Feb 27, 2016)

Why do people give a shit about the Cafe? It's just a bunch of reddit threads from r/news and r/worldnews anyway.


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## Enclave (Feb 27, 2016)

Rey said:


> What baffles me is people seem to think the Cafe has always been like this.
> 
> _It has not._
> 
> Like seriously, is someone going to have to drag Dan in here to educate these people on how things were? I mean it wasn't that fucking long ago.



Oh I know, it was only a few years ago that it wasn't a shit hole.


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## Gunners (Feb 27, 2016)

The section could do with a moderator like Evil Moogle or Toby. It requires the type of flexibility most moderators on this site do not have. Either they're inattentive or too trigger happy. 

I think some conversations will always be a little bit heated because they're sometimes dealing with matters people feel strongly about. I don't think that's a bad thing as the discussions can be cathartic, but there are times where it should be stopped from going too far. Thread derailment in the form of tearing into members, with no provocation, should be prevented.


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## dr_shadow (Feb 27, 2016)

Raidoton said:


> Why do people give a shit about the Cafe? It's just a bunch of reddit threads from r/news and r/worldnews anyway.



That place is my home!!! I've been posting there for over 10 years.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Gunners said:


> The section could do with a moderator like Evil Moogle or Toby. It requires the type of flexibility most moderators on this site do not have. Either they're inattentive or too trigger happy.
> 
> I think some conversations will always be a little bit heated because they're sometimes dealing with matters people feel strongly about. I don't think that's a bad thing as the discussions can be cathartic, but there are times where it should be stopped from going too far. Thread derailment in the form of tearing into members, with no provocation, should be prevented.



I don't think anyone is suggesting - or wants to - turn it into the Country Club in terms of Gestapo-esque modding but the simple fact is a couple years ago the Cafe was functionable. Sources actually mattered and, for the most part, things were silenced before they got too heated. Years ago if Mael went around just replying to Zero by calling him a ^ (use bro) or I went around telling everyone to kill themselves in every single thread or replying with:



We would have been warned, posts deleted, and eventually banned. I know because _it happened_.

It's not out of line to think that this state of being can be brought back, nor do I think it's out of line to want it to especially when the alternative is apparently the entire staff collectively saying, "Eh, it's not important and nobody cares, just throw it in with the rest of the trash."

I mean, you're a regular there - do you honestly believe the Cafe _deserves_ to be put on the same level to call it a  "troll section" like the Blender or as throwaway meaningless as the Roleplaying and Mafia sections?


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## Atlantic Storm (Feb 27, 2016)

mr_shadow said:


> That place is my home!!! I've been posting there for over 10 years.



As a fan of mr_shadow, this post wounds my very soul.

In any case, I want to stress that the *current layout is likely not going to be the forum's final form*. Further changes are being discussed, and the suggestions that have been given in this thread are being seriously considered.


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## Megaharrison (Feb 27, 2016)

Krory is just throwing a tantrum for whatever reason. I brought up how the current sources on active threads are all acceptable and he just ignored the post to cry some more. If mean words bother him then he should move to a reddit safe space

If you babies can't handle  being treated like adults then fine, I'll get more strict. You better not bitch about the results though.


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## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

Gunners said:


> A bit of a flippant approach towards feedback. I don't think it matters whether or not the layout bothers me, or any one individual, because you cannot please everyone. However, I think it is idiotic not to take into consideration the criticism of the new layout as there is a good chance that newer members will feel the same way.
> 
> If you stepped into a building, you wouldn't expect to be confronted with their complaints box, health and safety guidelines, ad board etc. It is gaudy and starts things off on the wrong note.


I think you misunderstood what I said entirely. It's advice. I'm not discarding opinions and critique at all just because I'm telling people there's an option that could alleviate some of the scrolling annoyance they might go through if their main sections are now on the bottom because I recognize that not everyone likes these changes.

So don't call it flippant when I'm not trying to be a dick about it. It'd be flippant if I told you to "hide sections and stay mad, nerd".


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> I think you misunderstood what I said entirely. It's advice. I'm not discarding opinions and critique at all just because I'm telling people there's an option that could alleviate some of the scrolling annoyance they might go through if their main sections are now on the bottom because I recognize that not everyone likes these changes.
> 
> So don't call it flippant when I'm not trying to be a dick about it. It'd be flippant if I told you to "hide sections and stay mad, nerd".



To be fair, it's hard to convey and infer tone on the interwebs so what you said _could_ have been misconstrued as being flippant if it were in a sarcastic tone. I like to think you're not that kind of person, but it's not unheard of for people to read into it the wrong way (though you did say "for the time being" which, as Goose indicates, means things are still to be changed around possibly).


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## Garfield (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> - People whining because they want the news section at the top.
> - Said news section being primarily populated by sensationalist news and opinionated users with rarely any specialized knowledge to share (I can only count a handful of such members).
> - Said opinionated users complaining whenever attempts at moderating are made.
> - Now complain that it's the mods' fault the section is a troll breeding ground.
> ...


You know what maybe there won't be any stark reactions and "whining" if there's a conversation rather than unilateral imposition to begin with.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Garfield said:


> You know what maybe there won't be any stark reactions and "whining" if there's a conversation rather than unilateral imposition to begin with.



Hey, it worked for the Third Reich.


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## dr_shadow (Feb 27, 2016)

Again, if we're keeping the name NarutoForums rather than "Generic Manga Forums", then most newcomers will likely be people who googled "Naruto forum" or something like that.

So you might wanna feature the Naruto section prominently among the first things you see. If that's what people come looking for.

This might differ depending on the size and shape of your screen, but on my laptop screen I only see ANBU Central on first arrival, and if I scroll down to put the words "ANBU Central" at the very top edge of my browser window, still only ANBU Central, Akihabara District and Akihabara Gallery are visible. No Naruto in sight.

I need to scroll until Akihabara District is at the top of the browser window before the Naruto section barely comes into frame.


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## Demetrius (Feb 27, 2016)

> then most newcomers will likely be people who googled "Naruto forum" or something like that.


Untrue. Some recent member googled Fairy Tail forums and NF popped up, then they joined.

It's a mixed bag. Especially considering what meta-data we have and how the search engine perceives the data on this site.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Trin, stop, the people over five feet are talking.


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## Demetrius (Feb 27, 2016)

I'll bury you.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Certainly not six feet under - you wouldn't be able to climb out!


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## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 27, 2016)

holy shit i got used to the new layout (granted some sections minimized)

i am actually kinda growing fond of it?

altho honestly i think the biggest failure here is the ostensible staff issue on 'minimize stuff ya dont like then ya dinguses'

i dont think the staff should ever be discouraging their 'vets' so stay away from other sections but thats just me i guess


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## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 27, 2016)

but mostly fuck the konoha ad board


I DONT CARE ABOUT THAT SHIT

just move it now holy shit its hella triggering me


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## Vandal Savage (Feb 27, 2016)

*Spoiler*: _All Things Imagine_ 





Imagine said:


> Fix this shit Jet





Imagine said:


> Jet
> 
> Dawg
> 
> ...





Imagine said:


> Jet
> 
> Fix
> 
> Pls






Discussion is still on-going but I make no promises about how the overall forum ultimately looks.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 27, 2016)

Nighty said:


> sorry but I can't abide by some of these questionable changes
> 
> numero uno, the ad board is a disgrace to this change, regardless of intent, the placement of the ad board suggests a clear signal that "we want activity, come here and advertise your shit". It shouldn't be one of the first sections you see and it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the other sections in Anbu Central which have to do with forum maintenance. I'm willing to believe that the recruit section fits in nicely into the overarching theme of Anbu Central, but the ad board absolutely does not, that shit needs to go back to the outskirts from whence it came.



Ad Board's placement is temporary and was never likely to stay where it is. It was placed there in the initial move due to it's arrangement in one of the proposed layouts for various sub-forums, but mainly so it wouldn't be lost in the shuffle of various threads going on in the HR. We are all waiting with bated breath to see it's ultimate fate.



Nighty said:


> Secondly, the cafe needs to be swapped with the bathhouse post haste, thematically alone this would make more sense but beyond that it congregates quote unquote real life sections together under one banner "Downtown Konoha" and also shuffles the Bathhouse, which is a low activity, pornography section (aka a special interest section) into the special interest super section that is The Outskirts.
> 
> I personally would also argue the Blender belongs in the Downtown Konoha supersection too but whatever, thats up to the blenderites to address. It's basically a grown up Chatterbox, so wherever the chatterbox is the Blender should be imo, there's no reason for it to be in the outskirts at all.



The Cafe stuff has been covered by other people and it's currently being discussed in the respective Cafe thread in the HR. As for BH, it remains in Downtown because it's "on-topic" and the desire of section leadership is for it to be moderated more tightly than say the Blender or OBD. It likely won't be moved to outskirts for those reasons. Kitsune can probably elaborate more.

Blender is in Outskirts because Blender staff want the overall environment and tone to remain and Blenderites don't like mod actions happening in general. Example being someone reports something, random smod comes in to handle it, cue extremely predictable reaction all around.



Nighty said:


> don't be dumb plsu
> 
> I'd ideally like to have a level (dont meme me about this its possible) conversation with the staff about the whole thing
> 
> maybe this is the wrong thread for it



I'm fine with either area. I'll respond as time allows.



Nighty said:


> point three
> 
> At this current juncture I see no reason for the Akihabara Distract and Gallery to be separate from one another, they should be combined. They're modded by the same group of people, they're about the same thing, and the district only has two sections in it, the only other section this small is Konoha Sanitation and that isn't a salient example for obvious reasons.
> 
> ...



As it currently stands, the Akihabara sections are a noticeable chunk of the forum real estate so I see your point. I actually do think this needs to be re-evaluated so the reorganization is a nice springboard to tackle that and a number of issues that have been brought up in this thread that had been pushed aside in favor of other matters. The Akihabara staff will have a discussion about it's current set-up and see what can be tweaked from there. 



Nighty said:


> I don't have an exact specific fourth argument but I have a general feeling I can't put into words that some of these section placements are subtly off
> 
> *e.g art section above outskirts+konoha mall*



As far as the bold is concerned, HVoA was the second-to-last open section before the shift. It's been moved up a couple of places due to moderation style primarily but to benefit from closer proximity to the anime/manga+Downtown sections as a side effect.


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## Imagine (Feb 27, 2016)

Jet, bby. Just revert and forget.


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## Kathutet (Feb 27, 2016)

WAD said:


> holy shit i got used to the new layout (granted some sections minimized)
> 
> i am actually kinda growing fond of it?
> 
> ...



Wad, please

Not even pls
This is an actual "dude come on" please


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 27, 2016)

mr_shadow said:


> That place is my home!!! I've been posting there for over 10 years.



Sorry cant rep you bro


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Kenneth said:


> Wad, please
> 
> Not even pls
> This is an actual "dude come on" please



Again, to be fair, that _is_ the solution being touted. 

I'm surprised most staff just haven't gone to the, "if you don't like it then just leave," defense.


----------



## Reznor (Feb 27, 2016)

Nighty said:


> numero uno, the ad board is a disgrace to this change, regardless of intent, the placement of the ad board suggests a clear signal that "we want activity, come here and advertise your shit". It shouldn't be one of the first sections you see and it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the other sections in Anbu Central which have to do with forum maintenance. I'm willing to believe that the recruit section fits in nicely into the overarching theme of Anbu Central, but the ad board absolutely does not, that shit needs to go back to the outskirts from whence it came.


You're probably right about this. 



Nighty said:


> Secondly, the cafe needs to be swapped with the bathhouse post haste, thematically alone this would make more sense but beyond that it congregates quote unquote real life sections together under one banner "Downtown Konoha" and also shuffles the Bathhouse, which is a low activity, pornography section (aka a special interest section) into the special interest super section that is The Outskirts.


 The point about the BH is pretty good.

Regards to the Cafe, do you think it should be more strictly moderated? DK is intended to be sections that are accessible to noobs. Cafe has a lot of social rules that need to be followed to not get torn apart. A more general new/current events section in DK is a better answer to that.



> I personally would also argue the Blender belongs in the Downtown Konoha supersection too but whatever, thats up to the blenderites to address. It's basically a grown up Chatterbox, so wherever the chatterbox is the Blender should be imo, there's no reason for it to be in the outskirts at all.


 That's more an argument for CB in Outskirts, which is a more complicated issue. We want to be rowdier than KCC, but not as rowdy as the other Outskirts sections.



Nighty said:


> At this current juncture I see no reason for the Akihabara


 I'm skipping this one, since Akihabara this is a more specific issue than general forum issue, and other are better qualified to discuss this and make a decision based on that discussion.



Nighty said:


> I don't have an exact specific fourth argument but I have a general feeling I can't put into words that some of these section placements are subtly off
> e.g art section above outskirts+konoha mall


Proximity to top is the concern here, yes?

Sections near the top need to be newb friendly, sections lower down don't necessarily need to be. People that stumble in should see DK sections first.

People that signed up for the OBD know where it is and will get there. People that signed up for another reason should take a moment to get accustomed to the forum first. Do you think it's better for the OBD to have more first time posters wander in? If so, you're going to have to deal with a hell of a lot more shitty threads. If not, then why should it be at the top?

Similar argument for the Cafe.

Does this address concern 4?


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## Reznor (Feb 27, 2016)

Rey said:


> I'm surprised most staff just haven't gone to the, "if you don't like it then just leave," defense.



We outgrew that in 2012.


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## Reznor (Feb 27, 2016)

Garfield said:


> Na, I just deleted my post because I think it's not contributing to the discussion.
> 
> Look, here's the thing. You mods yourself complain or have complained about tazoo or mbxx because they came in and did stuff without any foretelling or involving you and from then on everyone has to just deal with it. From a member viewpoint, normal staff increasingly is no different. Changes just seem to happen without member involvement and members just have to deal with it. If that doesn't seem like hypocrisy, tell me.



That's a good point. Reactions in this thread make me doubt that it would be useful, but I suppose that that's not fair since before v after.

I think most of the posts in this thread are just reactions to change, but it perhaps it would be good to get opinions first. I feel like a better method of that is needed.


----------



## Freechoice (Feb 27, 2016)

What would the forum look like if sections were arranged from most popular to least popular


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## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Mizura said:


> - People whining because they want the news section at the top.
> - Said news section being primarily populated by sensationalist news and opinionated users with rarely any specialized knowledge to share (I can only count a handful of such members).
> - Said opinionated users complaining whenever attempts at moderating are made.
> - Now complain that it's the mods' fault the section is a troll breeding ground.
> ...





Mizura said:


> For those who need the proper explanation:
> 
> As a forum, NF needs to take new users into account as well, and new users come here to discuss manga and anime. If you add up the activity in all of the manga/anime sections, they far exceed any activity in the Cafe and Blender sections, so despite how much one insists on those sections being near the top, such an opinion is just a personal preference that's not warranted by the purpose of this forum.
> 
> ...


Absolutely mindboggling. You call yourself an adviser? What have you been advising, that letting this forum have 5 equivalents of some family-friendly /b/ is culture inclusive and adaptive to user post quality? Are you guys serious?  This isn't about harsh moderating, this is about users getting mad when you moderate correctly and then you bend over and let them do what they want. The internet equivalent of beta cucks, this is what the staff has been reduced to. 

 I am an active member on 2 other forums (much bigger than this) and I have never once been banned or warned on either of them. I just follow the rules and it works. And it also happens to work for both populations of the 10000 and 8000 active members that post there. The global NF rules do not work for 3 sections as far as I know (and each and every time I asked about the exceptions, I received a clear answer from Dream in Q&C), so I play the game like everyone else by abusing the rule exceptions to show you that your "exceptions" are completely stupid and will never work properly on any forum on the internet. And what happens? You guys use some foot note rule called "staff discretion" to punish at your leisure and in 20 out of 20 contexts, that's just abusing your power. Your colleagues pick and choose rules to punish by using vague exceptions to your exceptions rules. There is no consistency. You're still titled as an adviser, so, Mizura, you're as big a problem as the morons refusing to send forum warnings and punishment duration lengths because they dislike a certain member.

Don't try to say "we're protecting newbies with this new organization" when you can't even protect your current posters from staff abuse and proper rule management. 

And to answer the fucking question - how would you organize the sections and preserve their activity? You place the most active ones at the top, lmfao.


----------



## Alwaysmind (Feb 27, 2016)

Downtown is polluted. The cafe needed fresh air and that is why it is appropriate for it to be in the outskirts of the city.


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## Frosch (Feb 27, 2016)

Has anyone found themselves browsing other versions less because of the recent change? 

I didnt know about subscribing to entire forums, so I added BH, Blender and Chatterbox because they're less accessible now and now open them in the CP, but this also means I've been checking other sections less because I've no idea where everything is now and I dont really bother with the front page


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Geijutsu said:


> Has anyone found themselves browsing other versions less because of the recent change?
> 
> I didnt know about subscribing to entire forums, so I added BH, Blender and Chatterbox because they're less accessible now and now open them in the CP, but this also means I've been checking other sections less because I've no idea where everything is now and I dont really bother with the front page



I've pretty much written off the Chatterbox and only opened Art section to post some giveaways and SotW entry.

Blender I'm weening off of and considering that some in the Cafe seem more interested in just letting the place burn, I can wave goodbye to that.

And with that, I suppose it's time for me to mosey on to somewhere else. 

@Reznor - The answer is _better_ moderation for the Cafe, but now we have Mega going full Nazi because he got offended and frightened about his utilitarian control over the section if someone else more active comes in. But again, the interest seems to be more they'd rather keep things the way they are and embrace their new hostile territory with the other throwaway troll sections than become something better... so I guess an ACTUAL news/current events section might be better, as long as you get someone responsible unlike Mega to take charge.


----------



## Reznor (Feb 27, 2016)

> @Reznor - The answer is better moderation for the Cafe, but now we have Mega going full Nazi because he got offended and frightened about his utilitarian control over the section if someone else more active comes in. But again, the interest seems to be more they'd rather keep things the way they are and embrace their new hostile territory with the other throwaway troll sections than become something better... so I guess an ACTUAL news/current events section might be better, as long as you get someone responsible unlike Mega to take charge.



So are you saying somewhere in the middle of this spectrum or something not on this spectrum?

**


----------



## NO (Feb 27, 2016)

Reznor said:


> So are you saying somewhere in the middle of this spectrum or something not on this spectrum?
> 
> **


Are we going to keep discussing pointless shit like this or are you actually going to come to a plausible compromise after witnessing such a massively negative response to the reorgo?


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

Reznor said:


> So are you saying somewhere in the middle of this spectrum or something not on this spectrum?
> 
> **



Sorry, in terms of what? I think the Cafe needs better moderation. As it's been pointed out numerous times things can get heated, yes, but that's the nature of news and current events when people have difference opinions so obviously a little leeway should be allowed. My point was that there was rampant actual flaming, and I don't mean "This is so stupid," I mean, "You're a fucking retard" and "Shut up, ^ (use bro)." We haven't had sources vetted for the most part in years which has led to bias blogs and editorials being used, and even in some cases no source at *all* being posted (most recently even by another staff member).

I _never_ remember the Cafe being this bad. Well, some people would act like this, yes, but they would be punished as were teh rules. The Cafe was never exempt to flaming rules before, and the rule of sources was always enforced (sometimes Mega was even overzealous if he was personally bias against it).

So yes, I want something between complete anarchy and having your hand held as you traverse the gold-paved walkways. The point is there's been _no_ moderation there for some time, for the most part. At least a year. Hell, we had a member who came back from a "sabbatical" and the first thing he did was call someone a "^ (use bro)" in the Cafe to absolutely no warning, no punishment, and his response to the idea of having rules in the Cafe (as if the Cafe has never had rules before) was that it was being ruined because he couldn't bait anymore.

But as it stands, the regulars seem to not like the idea of things being brought "under control" so if you were to create a news/current events section that is more "user-friendly" at the top of the forum I would be 100% behind that.


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

ADDENDUM: The obvious exception being the brief stint Kitsune was made active mod there which was met with nothing but animosity, adversity, and personal attacks from the section (including its mod) so yeah, maybe a new section would be better off. Not sure what happened with her there but it made it pretty clear people don't want to play nice. Last night I liked to think people could change but seeing the response from them today, I've revamped my opinion.


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

I propose the name "Newsstand" in some fashion for the new section.


----------



## SLB (Feb 27, 2016)

#tumbleweedsubsectionlivesmatter


----------



## Magic (Feb 27, 2016)

This is like the release of Tidal, music streaming service, from Jay Z.



Mods be like "just accept it yo"


----------



## Island (Feb 27, 2016)

mr_shadow said:


> That place is my home!!! I've been posting there for over 10 years.


I feel this.

I don't post in many sections, so it's kinda a shame to see one that I do post in get shafted like this.


----------



## ~M~ (Feb 27, 2016)

WAD said:


> ive decided
> 
> that its not really a big deal


----------



## Krory (Feb 27, 2016)

The Cafe is not my section. Never has been. I was just trying to stick up for them. Hence why zero fucks if they flicker off into oblivion now as they want.


----------



## Nello (Feb 27, 2016)

Reznor said:


> Proximity to top is the concern here, yes?
> 
> Sections near the top need to be newb friendly, sections lower down don't necessarily need to be. People that stumble in should see DK sections first.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure I agree with the logic here. A section like Downtown Konoha is oriented towards its users mingling with each other, and if that's too rowdy for the newcomers, then it's just not a friendly forum, and that will reflect in all sections. I've seen my fair share of shitposting in all sections, even the Academy.

As for the shitty threads argument, is that different for any section?


----------



## Savior (Feb 28, 2016)

Should have just gotten a couple new mods for the Cafe to do away with the users who are constantly flaming every one. They know who they are.


----------



## Alwaysmind (Feb 28, 2016)

Savior said:


> Should have just gotten a couple new mods for the Cafe to do away with the users who are constantly flaming every one. They know who they are.



Perhaps volunteer mods to enforce the rules when Mega is sleeping or busy. 

(Volunteer Mod: power to edit and delete, but not to ban)


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 28, 2016)

jet 



Jetstorm said:


> Ad Board's placement is temporary and was never likely to stay where it is. It was placed there in the initial move due to it's arrangement in one of the proposed layouts for various sub-forums, but mainly so it wouldn't be lost in the shuffle of various threads going on in the HR. We are all waiting with bated breath to see it's ultimate fate.



fair enough 




Jetstorm said:


> The Cafe stuff has been covered by other people and it's currently being discussed in the respective Cafe thread in the HR. As for BH, it remains in Downtown because it's "on-topic" and the desire of section leadership is for it to be moderated more tightly than say the Blender or OBD. It likely won't be moved to outskirts for those reasons. Kitsune can probably elaborate more.



I see, so would you define the Downtown Konoha super section (is there a proper name for this?) as the "on topic" place? In that scenario I see even more reason for the cafe to be there, ostensibly the cafe should be one of the most on topic sections right?

I don't really mind about the bathhouse tbh, I just fail to see how it really slots in to the theme of downtown Konoha, I guess because there's some level of "it's about members" going on?  I suppose it also has the benefit of being hidden to anyone not in the user group so any new members might not find it for awhile if that's a concern.



Jetstorm said:


> Blender is in Outskirts because Blender staff want the overall environment and tone to remain and Blenderites don't like mod actions happening in general. Example being someone reports something, random smod comes in to handle it, cue extremely predictable reaction all around.



true, I don't really care that much about the location of the blender, I've just always seen it as a social section and therefore associate it with fanclubs and chatterbox and so on in downtown konoha 

if it's just about creating a place for blenderites to post then it can realistically be moved anywhere on the front page



Jetstorm said:


> As it currently stands, the Akihabara sections are a noticeable chunk of the forum real estate so I see your point. I actually do think this needs to be re-evaluated so the reorganization is a nice springboard to tackle that and a number of issues that have been brought up in this thread that had been pushed aside in favor of other matters. The Akihabara staff will have a discussion about it's current set-up and see what can be tweaked from there.



all righty then 



Jetstorm said:


> As far as the bold is concerned, HVoA was the second-to-last open section before the shift. It's been moved up a couple of places due to moderation style primarily but to benefit from closer proximity to the anime/manga+Downtown sections as a side effect.



I guess this is fine, at a certain level the specifics of it don't really matter, my general understanding when I wrote that first group of posts was that the shift was about moving activity generating things upwards and the art section is more of an "already established members" section from my understanding.

Perhaps part of the problem here is just how many sections there really are that you have to balance on the front page.

good talk


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 28, 2016)

rez 




Reznor said:


> Regards to the Cafe, do you think it should be more strictly moderated? DK is intended to be sections that are accessible to noobs. Cafe has a lot of social rules that need to be followed to not get torn apart. A more general new/current events section in DK is a better answer to that.



I do think the cafe needs to be more strictly moderated but mostly for things like this:


*Spoiler*: __ 





WAD said:


> man ur autism knows no bounds rofl





Savior said:


> Quality posts once again. It wouldn't shock me if my 5 year old niece can put together better sentences than you.





WAD said:


> that's unfortunate because you need to be shocked
> 
> with an electric chair





Savior said:


> I'm sure the hundreds of thousands dead in Iraq over a false war and the millions of refugees in the middle east are really grateful for the U.S. and its meddling. Get a clue and check your perspective.





Mael said:


> Which has nothing to do with this article, putz.
> 
> You're still not getting away with the fact you can't comprehend for shit.





sworder said:


> savior don't you feel a slight bit of embarrassment to be shown how dumb you are in your own thread?
> 
> you should be considering the fact that you may actually be stupid imo





Yami Munesanzun said:


> Pointing that out is _my_ schtick, you colossal ass.





Mael said:


> Too slow, slow ass.





Yami Munesanzun said:


> Gotta go fast(er).





Yami Munesanzun said:


> Oh deer lord, gnu - the moose is agitated.
> 
> Quick, someone slather maple syrup under its jowls.





Mider T said:


> Savior got embarrassed in his own thread





WAD said:


> as he regularly does
> he's fast approaching (in)sanity check tier





Savior said:


> Who are you?
> Looks like an irrelevant poster based on the fact that you can't even put together a coherent sentence.
> 
> Move along little kid.





Zyrax Pasha said:


> >Canucks and Amerilards chimping out
> Even the Rivally between Bongs and frogs is more amusing than this





Amanda said:


> It is. The Amero-Canadian bitch fight is just tedious to watch.





sworder said:


> if you can't understand the meaning of a sentence because I skipped a comma then you are much dumber than I thought, which is really fucking dumb




(just remembered this exchange from a thread I was in recently)





which don't really have anything to do with the thread itself. Admittedly the OP is partially (or even more than that) at fault for baiting the whole thing but there should be some way of combating this as well, even if it's just editing that comment out of the opening post or something?

I know it's a super fine line between "heated debate" and "off topic insults" but I hope that it's at least a little bit plausible to get rid of at least specifically posts like these:


*Spoiler*: __ 





Savior said:


> Who are you?
> Looks like an irrelevant poster based on the fact that you can't even put together a coherent sentence.
> 
> Move along little kid.






which are just absolutely irrelevant

also sidenote I'm not looking to get this specific set of posts punished or w/e because I don't think they're the absolute worst, its just something that I experienced personally in the cafe recently so could easily reference as an example. I myself am probably guilty of what I just said somewhere in my posting history, though arguably this just goes to show why that might be needed.

in so far as creating a new and improved cafe that's more newb friendly it could be an idea to look into, though that could end up as another blender vs CB dynamic where at least one of them is superfluous (to be completely honest) but both sides say it's the other.

I guess the specifics of it is up to the mods but if we're postulating ideas for that then off the top of my head maybe a split between actual news items (like SCIENTIST DISCOVERS CURE FOR CANCER) and politics (like US FOUND TO HAVE BIGGEST MILITARY SPENDING)? Actually thinking about it this might also let you fold in the debate section as well 

either way I honestly don't know, this isn't my area of expertise, I only look into the cafe occasionally 



Reznor said:


> That's more an argument for CB in Outskirts, which is a more complicated issue. We want to be rowdier than KCC, but not as rowdy as the other Outskirts sections.



it depends on your point of view I guess, I see Downtown Konoha as the social/pseudo reality section where it's more about the members themselves and what they're doing in real life than anything more abstract like discussion of One Piece. Basically to me the distinction is that the higher (in this current ordering at least) sections have a topic, like anime that you talk around and get to know people around, whereas the lower sections like the chatterbox the topic to talk around is more meta and about the users themselves, either on the forum or in real life.

from the sounds of things it seems like you see the difference between Downtown Konoha and the Outskirts as more like Moderated versus Unmoderated? Would that be correct, don't want to strawman u 



Reznor said:


> I'm skipping this one, since Akihabara this is a more specific issue than general forum issue, and other are better qualified to discuss this and make a decision based on that discussion.



got a reasonable response from jet on this so no worries senpai



Reznor said:


> Proximity to top is the concern here, yes?
> 
> Sections near the top need to be newb friendly, sections lower down don't necessarily need to be. People that stumble in should see DK sections first.
> 
> ...



well concern 4 was much lower on the totem pole than the others because I don't really care so much about the specific ordering, it was more so an issue with how certain things (like cafe in the outskirts or ad board in anbu central) don't mesh very well

it's still a concern obviously but yeah just want to clarify that a bit, anyway back to the real stuff:

I see, the staff is ordering based on moderation (or newb friendliness rather) whereas I was thinking it was kind of related to activity or w/e.

Honestly if it were up to me I think the obd needs less emphasis on rigidity atm so unless they were truly shitty (like naruto versus living tribunal) I don't see an influx of like slightly mismatched threads or w/e to be a huge problem. As long as people can recognise something basic like "okay Naruto shouldn't be fighting Superman, lets stick to Radditz for now" then I'm fine with it. Though this is more a separate issue to do with obd elitism/gentrification (is this the right word, I don't think it is, I was thinking of something else but it's caught on the tip of my tongue) rather than the reshuffling of the front page. Regardless, I think the OBD is fine where it is, because relatively it hasn't moved, this is mostly a reshuffling of things above it, it's position remains relatively static.

I also don't think the cafe and the obd are really all that similar aside from a mostly coincidental shared level of vitriol. The cafe is a place where anyone from any walk of life can post about their opinions and current event news items, whereas the OBD is somewhat more specialised in that the only people who would post would be people who at all care about something so nebulous as fictional versus debates.

also a good talk


----------



## Nello (Feb 28, 2016)

ITT admins discuss the changes with the forum nighty

Why do I bother


----------



## Mizura (Feb 28, 2016)

jayjay?? said:


> Absolutely mindboggling. You call yourself an adviser? What have you been advising


That's confidential, but I've advised quite a number of things, and much of the current changes have actually nothing to do with me. For some reason, you are directly attacking me while fully ignorant of my contributions behind the scene. Please continue, it's amusing.



> I am an active member on 2 other forums (much bigger than this) and I have never once been banned or warned on either of them.


... are you somehow trying to claim authority by never having being banned on other forums?



jayjay?? said:


> Are we going to keep discussing pointless shit like this or are you actually going to come to a plausible compromise after witnessing such a massively negative response to the reorgo?


A tiny handful of members making large amounts of large posts here does not constitute a massively negative response. Believe it or not, the majority of users who don't frequent the Cafe or Blender probably just shrugged the whole thing off.


----------



## NO (Feb 28, 2016)

Mizura said:


> That's confidential, but I've advised quite a number of things, and much of the current changes have actually nothing to do with me. For some reason, you are directly attacking me while fully ignorant of my contributions behind the scene. Please continue, it's amusing.


I don't give a darn what you advise right now, you didn't advise correctly. You came out and defended the reorgo. Your status as an adviser implies you should be stopping stupid uneducated shit like that from happening. Don't even participate in this discussion if you're going to refuse to take responsibility for something that has caused a massive uproar. 



Mizura said:


> ... are you somehow trying to claim authority by never having being banned on other forums?


? I was simply pointing out that someone like me would never have to confront a NF staff member regarding rule-breaking if your rules were line-for-line enforced. "Abusive discretion"


Mizura said:


> A tiny handful of members making large amounts of large posts here does not constitute a massively negative response.


Do you want me to count the number of unique posters that have voiced a negative opinion? That number is absolutely far from insubstantial. 


Mizura said:


> Believe it or not, the majority of users who don't frequent the Cafe or Blender probably just shrugged the whole thing off.


That's simply not true.


----------



## Kind of a big deal (Feb 28, 2016)

I can only speak for myself: After the manga ended, generally the only reason I even come to this forum is for the NF cafe. If it's at the bottom of the list now, new people will not find it and thus it will slowly get less populated. I can see this becoming the reason I stop coming here one day.


----------



## Toby (Feb 28, 2016)

Breaking my promise of not posting again

I must say I am impressed the staff is trying to make changes, and I really hope that this will work out. I don't know the goal here, but I guess this is about getting more traffic to the site, and keeping it alive. 

Maybe the reorg is working, maybe it isn't. Without the data I cannot tell you which is the case. I acknowledge the negative feedback here, and hopefully, the mods will share the results of this change. But first they should test these new reorgs because you won't see any meaningful changes in only a few days. They definitely need a few weeks of data.

Anyway, regarding new and returning users: It absolutely is a problem that many users churn out and don't come back. Without a steady number of new daily users on site, NF could disappear. So it is good they are acting now.

But as the members are pointing out, the communication between staff and membership is thin. If there are clear goals and objectives to the reorg, they are not easy to find in public sections of the forum. The members have a right to know what the goals are and you can explain it. 

If you are doing some testing on the website, I hope you are able to use both the feedback here in this thread from members, but also look at your website stats. I don't know what you have used previously, but I know there is a Google Analytics property for NF, and you should look at it to see if traffic to sections changed according to the intended goal of this site reorganisation.

Also, just to clarify something, there will need to be a change to how NF attracts members. Focusing on Naruto only makes a certain amount of sense. 

If you compare the , it is clear that Naruto can carry the interest for a place like NF for a few more years. But a new focus needs to exist. The growth rate of membership that existed in the years before 2008 were a result of the popularity of Naruto, and that's what both members and staff need to understand. That time is over and the future of this site depends on how you get more traffic from search results in Google.

Since so many members no longer are Naruto fans, it would be constructive for you to look at what the future of the site should be - together. Maybe it should be a place for all types of manga and anime, but I think there is more to this site now, and that is now permanent. Which brings me to certain sections. 

The Cafe goes first. My first and most important place on NF. The Cafe has 2 problems right now and it looks like the staff want to fix it with 1 solution, and it's going to be bad for 2 reasons. The 2 problems are a decline in quality of moderation and a decline in traffic. The first can be fixed with new mods and the second with more visibility on the landing page of NF. With the current setup I predict that:

1) You will lose out on new members who care about more than just anime. You will lose people who enjoy and who can handle an intelligent discussion. Whether that is a politics, lit or music section doesn't matter. Don't write off these members. They keep the community alive and vibrant.
2) You will lose control of other sections if you do not intervene in the Cafe with new mods. This will spread to other sections. You know it if you've modded this forum for a year or two or ten. 
Fixing the Cafe will be difficult and require some pain, but it is absolutely worth it. Those who want to mod that section and who can post intelligently will easily rise to that task.  Same goes for the OBD.

Furthermore, the Cafe is still very important to the website, for a smaller group of very active members with long tenure. Ignoring what they say is a bad idea just as ignoring the Blender would be idiotic, but at the same time, the Cafe section cannot be at the very top. That being said, it could be further up in terms of visibility, because the topics in it are engaging, and there is no lack of interest for posting there.

Now, as regards the fighting in there, that's absolutely something the staff can fix. The Cafe has never been a harder place to mod than H&L. I moderated these sections for years and - as you can tell from the posters in this thread - I did a great job at it. New people can fill my shoes. 

So pardon me but when I see any member or staff member say it's too toxic, they're completely wrong, and none of them have even tried.

I see that Island, Enclave, and several other excellent posters are still around. They could easily mod the section, or someone newer. Rey's posts also impressed me, as did Nighty's. You've proven the quality of your posts and that you could do the job.

OBD comes second. I admit I only got to know this section towards the end of my stay, but I knew its mods well.

I have a lot of respect for those who post there, the regulars, the community they built, and the attempts to save it by both staff and members. It was fabulous once and can be again. Like the Cafe, it needs some visibility to get more new members, and mods who can focus on the challenge of moderating arguments and maintaining balance of quality content.

Without the users there is no content, but without good staff, you will lose the good members. 

To summarise, here are some action points the staff and members can take to heart


Staff:
1. Post your official goals the reorganisation is for. That way the users will better understand what you are trying to achieve, and you can discuss the results with them. Share the traffic data. Look at how modern forums like reddit handle this.
2. Look at your traffic data in Google Analytics. Did you get more traffic to the sections you wanted to make more visible? And what about other sections? Any noticeable dropoff? Did the changes get more new user registrations yet? 

Note, it will take weeks and probably a month or two to see the long term changes before a new trend settles. But you should look for noticeable dips in sessions for sections that are highly exposed to this new reorg.

3. When the current experiment is done, take feedback from users. If they think moving a section up makes sense, then give them the hard numbers. How many people do browse the Cafe vs FCs per day, week and month? Your Google Analytics property should have that data.

Members:
1. Give staff the benefit of the doubt - ask them what they are trying to achieve. Don't attack. I know some of you aren't, but there are several who are just joking about this. It's not good because that will deter a more open discussion for old and new members who aren't part of the entire forum history.
2. Discuss the results with the staff - tell them how this changes your experience of NF. Do you actually see a change in traffic in your favourite section? A change of tone? 
3. Propose ways to deal with problems as usual - if the reorg changes your experience, think about what can be done to improve it. This is no different than any rule change. You can impact staff opinion. I know user feedback matters to staff, even if it is not officially a democracy.
4. Recommend new mods - because staff will select them on their own if you don't provide them a shortlist of candidates with reasons and because *you do know* who you want to mod your section.

Long term, NF would stand to benefit from how other forums handle mod-user interaction. My favourite subreddits have a very open and friendly attitude. I think the same amount of transparency is needed to improve things on NF. Hopefully you can do that and get new blood in here. Good luck.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 28, 2016)

ok     justin


----------



## Mizura (Feb 28, 2016)

jayjay?? said:


> I don't give a darn what you advise right now, you didn't advise correctly. You came out and defended the reorgo. Your status as an adviser implies you should be stopping stupid uneducated shit like that from happening. Don't even participate in this discussion if you're going to refuse to take responsibility for something that has caused a massive uproar. .


I see. You think that I, a user of this forum, do not have the right to express my approval of the changes, just because you don't approve. Carry on.



Kind of a big deal said:


> I can only speak for myself: After the manga ended, generally the only reason I even come to this forum is for the NF cafe. If it's at the bottom of the list now, new people will not find it and thus it will slowly get less populated. I can see this becoming the reason I stop coming here one day.


Well, everybody has different experiences, and in my case, although I also drifted towards the Cafe for a while after losing interest in the manga, in the long term, the Cafe put me off NF even further, or at least gave me a more negative, aggressive opinion of it. I usually come out of there feeling like I've lost time rather than finding myself more informed.

Certainly the moderation appears to be something that needs to be addressed, but in the meantime, it still isn't a reason for it to be at the top of the forums. There are many users who are only here for the Naruto discussions, OP discussions, [insert random manga] discussions, or even OBD, sports, movies, games and arts (yes, those too) discussions. The Cafe is not that unique in that regards.


----------



## Krory (Feb 28, 2016)

Just mod me for the Cafe and be done with it.


----------



## Toby (Feb 28, 2016)

lol I should take my own advice

Staff: What is the goal here? More traffic on site? More new member registrations?

If only mbxx has access to the GA property then he should share it with you. Also, upgrade to universal analytics - then Google Tag Manager. It will help you deploy stuff and tracking faster. 

In Google Analytics, you can 

1. see traffic changes in custom reports by filtering to the landing page associated with each section, and
2. see user behaviour flow in Reporting > Behaviour > Behaviour Flow

Pretty decent for comparing before - and after - if you change sitemap or location of links on the landing page. 

The cohort analysis is also good if you have a reliable user ID or something besides the standard anonymous google cookie.


----------



## Reznor (Feb 28, 2016)

We actually are putting in google analytics currently, but I have to make sure Tazmo won't ban me for touching the default skin first.


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## Toby (Feb 28, 2016)

Okay. But it's been there for a while in the page source, at least the legacy ga.js code. Is that not setup correctly? If it is setup in a reliable way then upgrading won't affect the quality of the data, but it will make it easier to deploy all the new tracking you want, or custom scripts for ads and whatnot.

Let me know if you get stuck. I work for a company with GA Premium and I think I have a guide for migrating to universal analytics and GTM.


----------



## Black Wraith (Feb 28, 2016)

The Cafe has turned into crap. Mega is a shitty mod as nothing ever seems to get moderated.

The Cafe is the reason I joined, it's still a section that I visit regularly but I very rarely post there (although my activity as a whole has gone down). The Cafe is where I've made most of my posts and it's where I've made a lot of great friends.

Mega screwed the place up, let it rot and turn into a pile of garbage. Instead of tearing down the Cafe because one guy was not stripped of his modhood is really sad.

The Cafe despertely needs better and active mods who will be able to make the section a lot better and as Toby said above give NF users something else to talk about. The more diversity in topics NF has the better the chance of survival.

Bring the Cafe near the middle. Improve the moderation.

EDIT:
On a wider note. I think this whole reshuffle is a good idea. Akhibara District it rightfully near the top but I do think that One Piece, Bleach and even Naruto Avenues should be placed inside Akhibara District. I don't think there's a need for OP or Bleach to have such a prominent presence on the home page.


----------



## Krory (Feb 28, 2016)

Someone other than me pointing out Mega is a shitty mod?!

Surely, this is madness!


----------



## Black Wraith (Feb 28, 2016)

Was just something plainly obvious. I never thought it needed pointing out.


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## Reznor (Feb 28, 2016)

> On a wider note. I think this whole reshuffle is a good idea. Akhibara District it rightfully near the top but I do think that One Piece, Bleach and even Naruto Avenues should be placed inside Akhibara District. I don't think there's a need for OP or Bleach to have such a prominent presence on the home page.


 I think OP generates traffic still. I haven't investigated Bleach/OP at all in quite a while though. I have both those Ave's collapsed.


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## Black Wraith (Feb 28, 2016)

Reznor said:


> I think OP generates traffic still. I haven't investigated Bleach/OP at all in quite a while though. I have both those Ave's collapsed.



I have most of the sections on NF collapsed. The only ones I don't are:
Akhibara District
Konoha Mall
Outskirts of Konoha (For the Cafe)
Anbu Central (For the time being)

EDIT:
Stuff like this is why he's a crappy mod. Always makes things personal:


Megaharrison said:


> Black Wraith just finds me absolutely haram, it's another nakba you could say



**


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 28, 2016)

Megaharrison said:


> Black Wraith just finds me absolutely haram, it's another nakba you could say



Give yourself a warning for this.


----------



## Island (Feb 28, 2016)

The Roleplaying Forum should really be part of some larger creative writing section in the Konoha Mall. It's awkward to lump it in with the "troll sections" just because it's always been part of the Outskirts.

The Reader's Corner has Flash Fiction contests, IIRC, so a larger creative writing forum with subforums for fiction, roleplaying, and published works would probably work well. Or you could throw us a bone and give us a "Hidden Village of Writing" category beneath the art one.

It would make sense to move the Caf? to Downtown Konoha and would be a (literal) middle ground between being at the very top and very bottom.

Not sure the difference between the Akihabara District and the Akihabara Gallery. One seems for anime/manga in general while the other seems to be for specific serious. But isn't it reasonable to assume that the people that frequent the District also frequent the Gallery? Why not just have them as one section?

Saves me from having to minimize them both.

That said, you want to keep the troll sections away from the top but have the  Questions & Complaints section up there? Every time I go there, the top thread is a semi-serious thread where the regulars are calling each other autistic. Why don't you just put that back at the bottom and make the "Rules and FAQs" section a subsection of Konoha Times or something?

It'd cut down on the clutter on the front page, to say the least, especially since the latter still has FAQs that link to Naruto Fan.

I don't really know about the Blender, but, uh, staff, have you guys tried asking them what they wanted? Lumping the OBD and the Blender together at the bottom implies that you just wanted both sections out of the way, but, you know, attract more flies with honey than vinegar or whatever.


----------



## Krory (Feb 28, 2016)

Black Wraith said:


> Was just something plainly obvious. I never thought it needed pointing out.



Judging about the backlash from regulars, seems they prefer it that way. So, again, creating a new "friendly" (for lack of a better term) news/current events section seems the better option. Mega will chase out anyone they throw in there and most of the staff don't care enough to reign him in, much less take him off.


----------



## Krory (Feb 28, 2016)

Island said:


> The Roleplaying Forum should really be part of some larger creative writing section in the Konoha Mall. It's awkward to lump it in with the "troll sections" just because it's always been part of the Outskirts.
> 
> The Reader's Corner has Flash Fiction contests, IIRC, so a larger creative writing forum with subforums for fiction, roleplaying, and published works would probably work well. *Or you could throw us a bone and give us a "Hidden Village of Writing" category beneath the art one.*



As much as I would love this, it unfortunately seems like the Literature Department/Reader's Corner is dead and Flash Fiction has long been inactive. I had suggested merging it with the writing section to generate some popularity and was fought by those who believe writing and literature is not art.

Then again with the way some things are, maybe it's for the best writing wasn't added to the art section.


----------



## lacey (Feb 28, 2016)

So far, I'm still getting used to this moving around, but it makes more sense, and it's not that bad really.



Black Wraith said:


> The Cafe has turned into crap. Mega is a shitty mod as nothing ever seems to get moderated.
> 
> Mega screwed the place up, let it rot and turn into a pile of garbage. Instead of tearing down the Cafe because one guy was not stripped of his modhood is really sad.


If anything, he contributes to the garbage himself, it's not just him not modding the place properly. 

I used to be active there too, but the place is just wretched now. It really shows the ugly side of NF (and its users) very well. I wouldn't be against just outright destroying the section and putting it out of its misery. 

But, if anyone wants a chance at saving it, get way better mods - I would personally delete the entire section, then rebuild it from scratch.


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 28, 2016)

Megaharrison said:


> This isn't in the cafe. Such behavior would not be tolerated there now.





So it's like how Swedes sleeping with prostitites in Sweden is a deadly sin but sleeping with prostitites in Thailand is exploring the local culture?


----------



## dr_shadow (Feb 28, 2016)

Megaharrison said:


> It's like now feminists hate rape except when it's done by a Muslim



I'm not gonna respond to that.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 28, 2016)

Also some of the section descriptions need to be changed.

For instance: Ask Taxman, get (non $$$) returns.


----------



## Krory (Feb 28, 2016)

Frankly I question the intelligence of anyone who can't see the staff either doesn't care or gets a giggle out of Mega, even when hr harasses other staff.


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

Ad Board was already condemned to the Outskirts with the other dying sections.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 29, 2016)

I guess I'll just wait here for rez/jet to get back to me


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

It's still funny tho.

"Hey, the Outskirts aren't the sections we don't care about that need to die in the fires of oblivion."

"*move another section they don't care about that needs to die in the fires of oblivion there*"

Not very reassuring.


----------



## Reznor (Feb 29, 2016)

> Also some of the section descriptions need to be changed.


 I was about to shorten a shit ton of them to make the scroll shorter.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 29, 2016)

I somewhat understand the new purpose of the outskirts in regards to sections like the blender and the obd in regards to the perception that historically they've been very anti-outside moderator interference and changing that now would be a recipe for disaster

I don't quite get it in regards to mafia/rp tho


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 29, 2016)

Rey said:


> Ad Board was already condemned to the Outskirts with the other dying sections.



oh shit

didn't even notice 

good work everyone


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

Nighty, stop defending the OBD. 

btw when will one of you staffers approve my suggestion for an alternate title to replace "Sith Lord" with "Jedi Master"? 

I really, really need this to complete my posting profile.

That and a rep rank. Maybe I can ask Kenny for a rep rank.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 29, 2016)

I'm contractually obligated to defend the obd, if I don't I'll get sued


----------



## Reznor (Feb 29, 2016)

> I somewhat understand the new purpose of the outskirts in regards to sections like the blender and the obd in regards to the perception that historically they've been very anti-outside moderator interference and changing that now would be a recipe for disaster


Yeah the "further down means staff hates it" isn't the goal here. Like, 50% of the posters in the Blender are admins these days. It's about more lax sections being further from newbs.



> I don't quite get it in regards to mafia/rp tho


 Hmm... not sure how to classify that.

Mafia intangibly seems more in line with those. Maybe it's the members? Idk.

RP is a good point. It might be Mall material instead.


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

So you admit you don't hate the current state of the Cafe?  That concerns me greatly.


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

Nighty said:


> I'm contractually obligated to defend the obd, if I don't I'll get sued



That is respectable.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 29, 2016)

Reznor said:


> Yeah the "further down means staff hates it" isn't the goal here. Like, 50% of the posters in the Blender are admins these days. It's about more lax sections being further from newbs.
> 
> Hmm... not sure how to classify that.
> 
> ...



well I don't know much about the specifics of the mafia section's storied history (so don't take this as gospel), just that there's been a variety of conflicts with the staff in the past. However I never really got the impression the conflicts were quite the _same _ as obd/blender


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

Nighty said:


> well I don't know much about the specifics of the mafia section's storied history (so don't take this as gospel), just that there's been a variety of conflicts with the staff in the past. However I never really got the impression the conflicts were quite the _same _ as obd/blender



Well I do recall there was a big push from "regulars" to get the Mafia section (and separated on its own) but then activity died down, Mafia games became less frequent, and the very same people who argued for a section claimed the section killed activity and directly blamed the staff for doing it.

Not saying this is everyone - there were mafia players that were against the section, like aiya (and I want to say Wad was against it but might be mistaken). But the most vocal for it ended up whining after the fact and blaming everyone but themselves and it caused a few threads of drama in the complaints section.


----------



## heartsutra (Feb 29, 2016)

Island said:


> It'd cut down on the clutter on the front page, to say the least, especially since the latter still has FAQs that link to Naruto Fan.





WAD said:


> Also some of the section descriptions need to be changed.
> 
> For instance: Ask Taxman, get (non $$$) returns.



Many staff agree. Updating/modernizing sections in general is a mid- to longterm goal and will happen gradually


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Feb 29, 2016)

u do realize how scary 'mid to longterm' sounds to us right
considering the staff's liberal use of 'soon'


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

Mid-to-long term = Within the next six years


----------



## baconbits (Feb 29, 2016)

I don't like these changes for many of the reasons Rey and jayjay already articulated.  I'm particularly concerned about the treatment of the Cafe.  This might seem petty but I've been posting in that section for ten years and its being treated in a fashion that to I personally find disrespectful.  

I don't like the fact that big changes like this occur and no one reaches out to the more reasonable veterans.  When my advice thread was moved to the Country Club the mods reached out to me and I can tell you I've always had great respect for that section simply because of a few PM's they sent me.  I could tell they valued my input.  This change doesn't have that same feeling and as a result you get what you deserve: a lot of complaining, whining and anger.

To Toby's point I wouldn't mind modding the Cafe.  It can be done.  We need some veterans that don't troll, like mr shadow, a guy on the opposite side of the political spectrum but a guy who knows his stuff.  We need three or four guys with that kind of respect to do the job.  A lot of mods have chimed in that if they mod the Cafe there will be complaints.  But in the long run there will be a lot more complaints about letting the section die and trying to replace it with a thinly veiled attempt to start over than to simply mod the section the way it should be modded.


----------



## baconbits (Feb 29, 2016)

I also don't like my thread in the relevant section being locked.  The only posts in there were constructive and it got shut down.


----------



## ~M~ (Feb 29, 2016)

You can tell the forum is bored when this is the hot button topic


----------



## ~M~ (Feb 29, 2016)

> I don't like the fact that big changes like this occur and no one reaches out to the more reasonable veterans.


Hire a crop of oldfag mods tbh tbf fam solve this regime 

Dynasty of dead bones and babes


----------



## Yak (Feb 29, 2016)

baconbits said:


> I don't like the fact that big changes like this occur and no one reaches out to the more reasonable veterans.



Although the changes don't really bother me this is the part that surprised me a little as well. I thought there would at least be an announcement beforehand but the changes came pretty sudden. Maybe the layout also reflects that is was all done on short notice and some of the changes are not really definitive yet but yes. I thought the staff would at least reach out to some. 

You know, the idea with the gazette I had early starting into this year was exactly for shit like that.


----------



## ~M~ (Feb 29, 2016)

Staff transparency has never changed once and this is not the first example of its absence.


----------



## Yak (Feb 29, 2016)

~M~ said:


> Staff transparency has never changed once and this is not the first example of its absence.



Your point being? Therefore we shouldn't expect it to happen? That doesn't sound like you, aren't you usually one of the first people to point out flaws in the staff politics or do I remember that wrong?


----------



## ~M~ (Feb 29, 2016)

Handsome Yak said:


> Your point being? Therefore we shouldn't expect it to happen? That doesn't sound like you, aren't you usually one of the first people to point out flaws in the staff politics or do I remember that wrong?



You remember correctly. I don't disagree with you. I'm being heavily sarcastic but to be honest 

No I can't be hopeful changes in how things here work but I was 

And in hindsight that makes me part of the problem I originally hated: people are afraid to speak out because it either falls on deaf ears or you're alienated. I personally made my priority making peace rather than opening eyes, in the political mud, so to say. For now


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

RIP the mods who quit because of a refusal for traff stansparency.


----------



## Yak (Feb 29, 2016)

I find myself wondering more often than not lately that the question isn't so much in "how can NF's activity be increased or preserved" but rather in "does it deserve to be increased or preserved"

Yeah this sounds awfully edgy but then again, maybe it's just really impossible. Maybe at some point you gotta accept the fact that the high life of this board is over and that even if there was a next big hit similar to Naruto's popularity and the forum started catering to that, it doesn't automatically mean it'll spark the same leap in activity rates and new members.

Maybe this forum will no be a lot less active and a lot smaller overall, regardless of its physical size made up of sections, subsections and threads. Maybe kinda just accept that and take it as it is or move on.

I mean, I see several people claim the restructuring has severe impact on their activity and motivation to post but is that really the sole reason behind it? I find that hard to believe... that would sorta imply that its so heavily dependend on what the staff does rather than the userbase defining and denerating their own activity... because, you know, they _want to be active_. 


Eehhh these are just thoughts of mine though. Some worries. I still feel such a great attachment to NF, like holy cow, I never thought feelings of nostalgica and habit could tie you so hard to one place, I almost feel like I'm doomed to haunt it even though I don't really_ really_ have a reason to stay here anymore. At least not any that couldn't be refuted with some sound arguments. Can't be the only one to feel this way though. Rather sad, actually.


----------



## ~M~ (Feb 29, 2016)

I'll go down with the ship but if it sinks there's ultimately something at fault, we don't die of old age at 12


----------



## Yak (Feb 29, 2016)

~M~ said:


> I'll go down with the ship but if it sinks there's ultimately something at fault, we don't die of old age at 12



We are like a sun that's burning too fast through its helium reserves

Or wait that actually happened



In before brown dwarf or something

The brown stands for shit


----------



## Catamount (Feb 29, 2016)

~M~ said:


> I'll go down with the ship but if it sinks there's ultimately something at fault, we don't die of old age at 12



24'd sadly.


----------



## Island (Feb 29, 2016)

Handsome Yak said:


> Yeah this sounds awfully edgy but then again, maybe it's just really impossible. Maybe at some point you gotta accept the fact that the high life of this board is over and that even if there was a next big hit similar to Naruto's popularity and the forum started catering to that, it doesn't automatically mean it'll spark the same leap in activity rates and new members.


This is spot on.

I imagine that NF became popular in the first place for being the go-to Naruto forum, but now that Naruto is over, why are new people going to come here?

Unless we come up with a new "thing" that is going to keep us at the top of Google searches that people actually make, our glory days are way behind us. I mean, how many people actually google "naruto message board" anymore?

Restructuring might slow the forum's decline, but if the staff is looking for a way to revitalize it, they should be thinking bigger. Which, realistically, unless you guys have some grand plan to make this place go viral, isn't going to happen.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Feb 29, 2016)

Don't think this is that big of a deal, most forums have their on-topic sections on top and the off-topic sections at the bottom, I never understood why it was inverted here save from "regulars want to get to the Blender with minimal effort".

Like, if I can get used to scroll to get to mafia so can you. Or perhaps use the subscribe function. I need to do it myself.

I agree there are a lot of smaller problems that need to be solved though, even if we keep this layout. The Cafe needs something done, as it has been pointed out. Like 90% of the threads there are bait, flaming/trolling is everywhere and the mod of the section is one of the most prominent trolls so it doesn't help. I support kicking the guy out if only I can finally put him on super ignore. And then get someone who can delete flaming posts on a regular basis and keep the discussions on topic.

Or do like others proposed and scrap the entire section, then start over. Don't think it's a bad idea, the (good) Cafe regulars will just move to the new section.

Otherwise... meh. I don't give a flying fuck about the Naruto Avenue so I'm fine with its current placement. I think it's actually good that the forum wants to showcase other anime/manga since it will die if it relies on Naruto for traffic.


----------



## Yak (Feb 29, 2016)

Island said:


> This is spot on.
> 
> I imagine that NF became popular in the first place for being the go-to Naruto forum, but now that Naruto is over, why are new people going to come here?
> 
> ...



The problem is that the general lookout of the forum's identiy is something Tazmo or mbxx have to fix. I... I don't really get it either, don't ask me about anything related to domains and forum tools and servers and all that shit, it's all magic mumbo-jumbo for me but apparently the rest of the staff outside those two mentioned have no power to change the grand picture afaik.

So... yeah. Balls.


----------



## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

Nobody wants to admit they shit the bed.


----------



## ~M~ (Feb 29, 2016)

He who smelt it dealt it


----------



## Megaharrison (Feb 29, 2016)

Rey said:


> RIP the mods who quit because of a refusal for traff stansparency.



Don't worry krory, I'll never quit.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 29, 2016)

Toby said:


> I don't know if Tazmo has actually monetised NF. I never had access to the adsense account or anything but I at least hope he makes enough here to cover the hosting costs + whatever shady hourly rate Mbxx operates on. It cannot be easy to find authentic Reichmarks on eBay and securely transfer them each month to that account of his in Bavaria.



Well he once said the ads were paying for the forum. If that ever ceased being true I'm sure he'd axe the thing ASAP. Also Mbxx says he doesn't get paid. You may all shudder in horror now.


----------



## Toby (Feb 29, 2016)

^ Explains everything

Perhaps Tazmo wants NF to be buried in order to hide his shady past as a businessman


----------



## heartsutra (Feb 29, 2016)

Island said:


> This is spot on.
> 
> I imagine that NF became popular in the first place for being the go-to Naruto forum, but now that Naruto is over, why are new people going to come here?
> 
> ...




The Naruto brand may not pull in as many people as before, but a fair amount of people still come to NF because they were looking for a Naruto Forum to mingle with likeminded fans, even after the Manga's end. Others in the NA stick around because they are waiting for the Boruto Manga or following the anime.


About looking for a new series to focus on and changing direction of the forum ? It'd be weird to make _series X_ the focus of this forum as long as it is still Narutoforums. The problem obviously being that it is highly confusing for potentially new members. Newbies that come here expecting a Narutoforum will be confused or disappointed & newbies that would be interested in _series X_ might not find this place to begin with which would hinder an active & healthy community from forming around _series X._

We don't have to be about Naruto only, but personally, I think we should embrace our identity as a Naruto forum instead of trying to become something completely different. It sets us apart from becoming just another general anime/manga forum.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 29, 2016)

Toby said:


> ^ Explains everything


That's what I said.



> Perhaps Tazmo wants NF to be buried in order to hide his shady past as a businessman



Have you seen the Anifreak twitter? It's a huge ass wall of copyright complaints.


----------



## Yak (Feb 29, 2016)

heartsutra said:


> The Naruto brand may not pull in as many people as before, but a fair amount of people still come to NF because they were looking for a Naruto Forum to mingle with likeminded fans, even after the Manga's end. Others in the NA stick around because they are waiting for the Boruto Manga or following the anime.
> 
> 
> About looking for a new series to focus on and changing direction of the forum ? It'd be weird to make _series X_ the focus of this forum as long as it is still Narutoforums. The problem obviously being that it is highly confusing for potentially new members. Newbies that come here expecting a Narutoforum will be confused or disappointed & newbies that would be interested in _series X_ might not find this place to begin with which would hinder an active & healthy community from forming around _series X._
> ...



But heart, you gotta realize that all of this happens on borrowed time, yes? The attention the manga receives over the years will casually dwindle, as much as this board's identiy. Imo, better break away while you can before it truly becomes a ghost town.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Feb 29, 2016)

I can't get too specific or make any guarantees either way, but potential revisions for the current forum layout are being discussed. We'll still ultimately keep to the spirit of the reshuffle, but some of the possible changes are very accommodating to some of the requests and suggestions that have been made in the thread.


----------



## Nello (Feb 29, 2016)

heartsutra said:


> The Naruto brand may not pull in as many people as before, but a fair amount of people still come to NF because they were looking for a Naruto Forum to mingle with likeminded fans, even after the Manga's end. Others in the NA stick around because they are waiting for the Boruto Manga or following the anime.
> 
> 
> About looking for a new series to focus on and changing direction of the forum ? It'd be weird to make _series X_ the focus of this forum as long as it is still Narutoforums. The problem obviously being that it is highly confusing for potentially new members. Newbies that come here expecting a Narutoforum will be confused or disappointed & newbies that would be interested in _series X_ might not find this place to begin with which would hinder an active & healthy community from forming around _series X._
> ...



It doesn't seem like there is all that much competition for general anime/manga forums though. After some quick google searching, all I could find was some small forums and the MAL forum which is way less developed than "normal" forums.

I think there is a lot of appeal in forums like this one vs websites like reddit or tumblr that aren't really designed as forums. NF could become pretty major if it generalised a little bit more and changed name.


----------



## Toby (Feb 29, 2016)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> That's what I said.
> 
> Have you seen the Anifreak twitter? It's a huge ass wall of copyright complaints.



Tazmo you Canadian


----------



## Island (Feb 29, 2016)

heartsutra said:


> The Naruto brand may not pull in as many people as before, *but a fair amount of people still come to NF because they were looking for a Naruto Forum to mingle with likeminded fans, even after the Manga's end.* Others in the NA stick around because they are waiting for the Boruto Manga or following the anime.


Perhaps, but is this a satisfactory amount of people?

There is a clear disconnect between where we are and where we want to be as a community, and this disconnect is probably getting more severe as time goes on, e.g. declining activity.

This is like saying "My house may be on fire, but my _kitchen_ is not on fire." Your house being on fire is still a problem even if the entire thing isn't.



heartsutra said:


> About looking for a new series to focus on and changing direction of the forum ? It'd be weird to make _series X_ the focus of this forum as long as it is still Narutoforums. The problem obviously being that it is highly confusing for potentially new members. Newbies that come here expecting a Narutoforum will be confused or disappointed & newbies that would be interested in _series X_ might not find this place to begin with which would hinder an active & healthy community from forming around _series X._


I don't necessarily think we should move to something else, but there are plenty of ways to attract new members. If you were a new member, why would you come here? What would you do? Why would you want to stay? Most importantly, how did you get here in the first place?

Once upon a time, these questions might have been related to reading and discussing Naruto, but how many people are actually doing this anymore? A fair amount, but, again, is that a satisfactory amount?



heartsutra said:


> We don't have to be about Naruto only, but personally, I think we should embrace our identity as a Naruto forum instead of trying to become something completely different. It sets us apart from becoming just another general anime/manga forum.


I agree with this, but I think that focusing on how we shouldn't change rather than how we should change is counter-intuitive. It's true that we could lose sight of where we came from if we try to change too drastically, but I think that's far our biggest problem.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 29, 2016)

Nighty said:


> I see, so would you define the Downtown Konoha super section (is there a proper name for this?) as the "on topic" place? In that scenario I see even more reason for the cafe to be there, ostensibly the cafe should be one of the most on topic sections right?
> 
> I don't really mind about the bathhouse tbh, I just fail to see how it really slots in to the theme of downtown Konoha, I guess because there's some level of "it's about members" going on?  I suppose it also has the benefit of being hidden to anyone not in the user group so any new members might not find it for awhile if that's a concern.



There isn't really a name for it I just refer to it as the parent forum or section category though for the last few days we've just been calling it DK which makes everyone think of Donkey Kong but yeah. Cafe's moderation level ended up supplanting it's status as an on-topic section. Assuming it gets consistently modded it would get moved with the rest of Downtown. 

BH was there based on the previous arrangement and being on-topic/about the members as you say. Kitsune can answer specifics better than I can though since I've never been involved much with the BH as a section. Nailed the hidden part pretty well I think.




> true, I don't really care that much about the location of the blender, I've just always seen it as a social section and therefore associate it with fanclubs and chatterbox and so on in downtown konoha
> 
> if it's just about creating a place for blenderites to post then it can realistically be moved anywhere on the front page



Blender discussion tends to come up fairly often even in it's less active state. There is one going on with it and the rest of the outskirts right now in terms of how liberal the category is going to be with the more aggressive behavior that is found there. 



> all righty then
> I guess this is fine, at a certain level the specifics of it don't really matter, my general understanding when I wrote that first group of posts was that the shift was about moving activity generating things upwards and the art section is more of an "already established members" section from my understanding.
> 
> Perhaps part of the problem here is just how many sections there really are that you have to balance on the front page.
> ...



The HVoA was the last section that still gets a higher level of moderation than say the Mall or OBD and that's why it was above those two. It's benefiting overall but it's more about after that you hit the Mall which is pretty hostile and then the Outskirts.

Yes, the page is rather huge and some categories are taking up a lot more space. We are intending to cut some of that down overall and hopefully make it easier to navigate for everyone.





Nello said:


> ITT admins discuss the changes with the forum nighty
> 
> Why do I bother



I swear it isn't what it looks like. 



Toby said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Toby, I miss the quantity of your contributions and quality of your posts. Please come back. 

Anyway, you made a number of great points and thanks for your feedback overall. You said a great deal of things that hopefully get addressed as we go through the whole process I know you are happy to be away from.  



Island said:


> The Roleplaying Forum should really be part of some larger creative writing section in the Konoha Mall. It's awkward to lump it in with the "troll sections" just because it's always been part of the Outskirts.
> 
> The Reader's Corner has Flash Fiction contests, IIRC, so a larger creative writing forum with subforums for fiction, roleplaying, and published works would probably work well. Or you could throw us a bone and give us a "Hidden Village of Writing" category beneath the art one.
> 
> ...



Anbu is under construction and should hopefully be done within the week. Akihabara District and Gallery being something that likely happens after that in terms of it's sheer size.

You bring up a lot of ideas and I'll ask AS how he feels about some of them as far as the RP section goes. 

Cafe is currently being discussed as far as DK vs. Outskirts goes along with it's level of moderation.

It wasn't that they were out of the way just that they could have their respective section cultures more easily and "in-house" so to speak.



WAD said:


> Also some of the section descriptions need to be changed.
> 
> For instance: Ask Taxman, get (non $$$) returns.



This is in the process of being done. Several section descriptions have already been pointed out to us.



Rey said:


> Ad Board was already condemned to the Outskirts with the other dying sections.





Nighty said:


> oh shit
> 
> didn't even notice
> 
> good work everyone



Well there is a pet project or two involved with the ad board but for the moment the other issues come first. Anbu is also in the middle of being restructured/revamped so that should be happening sooner rather than later. Ad board was just done first along with archiving Issac's Basement.



Handsome Yak said:


> Although the changes don't really bother me this is the part that surprised me a little as well. I thought there would at least be an announcement beforehand but the changes came pretty sudden. Maybe the layout also reflects that is was all done on short notice and some of the changes are not really definitive yet but yes. I thought the staff would at least reach out to some.
> 
> You know, the idea with the gazette I had early starting into this year was exactly for shit like that.



The layout isn't definitive and yeah this came about after the first issue of the gazette was put out. I've been busier due to personal matters so didn't get the chance to get with you on when the next version will potentially be.



Handsome Yak said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A number of people have expressed this so you are by no means alone on the matter.



Atlantic Storm said:


> I can't get too specific or make any guarantees either way, but potential revisions for the current forum layout are being discussed. We'll still ultimately keep to the spirit of the reshuffle, but some of the possible changes are very accommodating to some of the requests and suggestions that have been made in the thread.



This along with the cafe placement and situation in general there.



Nello said:


> It doesn't seem like there is all that much competition for general anime/manga forums though. After some quick google searching, all I could find was some small forums and the MAL forum which is way less developed than "normal" forums.
> 
> I think there is a lot of appeal in forums like this one vs websites like reddit or tumblr that aren't really designed as forums. NF could become pretty major if it generalised a little bit more and changed name.



We've actually discussed this before and Dream's pestering of mbxx about the upgrade is something that would naturally improve the rankings on google among other things.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 29, 2016)

yeah one of the big things is that does NF even have a proper mobile site? Because I'm given to understand Google tries to weed out sites that don't have this from being high priority search targets or however the system works 



			
				jet said:
			
		

> There isn't really a name for it I just refer to it as the parent forum or section category though for the last few days we've just been calling it DK which makes everyone think of Donkey Kong but yeah. Cafe's moderation level ended up supplanting it's status as an on-topic section. Assuming it gets consistently modded it would get moved with the rest of Downtown.
> 
> BH was there based on the previous arrangement and being on-topic/about the members as you say. Kitsune can answer specifics better than I can though since I've never been involved much with the BH as a section. Nailed the hidden part pretty well I think.



k



> Blender discussion tends to come up fairly often even in it's less active state. There is one going on with it and the rest of the outskirts right now in terms of how liberal the category is going to be with the more aggressive behavior that is found there.



k



> The HVoA was the last section that still gets a higher level of moderation than say the Mall or OBD and that's why it was above those two. It's benefiting overall but it's more about after that you hit the Mall which is pretty hostile and then the Outskirts.
> 
> Yes, the page is rather huge and some categories are taking up a lot more space. We are intending to cut some of that down overall and hopefully make it easier to navigate for everyone.



k

tfw u get an adequate response from the mods in a speedy fashion 

I guess at this point there's not much more to discuss, u seem to have given my input some thought and taken it on board which is more than I was actually expecting to be quite frank so kudos I suppose 



> Well there is a pet project or two involved with the ad board but for the moment the other issues come first. Anbu is also in the middle of being restructured/revamped so that should be happening sooner rather than later. Ad board was just done first along with archiving Issac's Basement.



well I'm interested in seeing where this goes 

as long as it's not in the ANBU central than hopefully whatever you're planning works out


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## Yak (Feb 29, 2016)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I can't get too specific or make any guarantees either way, but potential revisions for the current forum layout are being discussed. We'll still ultimately keep to the spirit of the reshuffle, but some of the possible changes are very accommodating to some of the requests and suggestions that have been made in the thread.



That sounds both exciting and threatening at the same time



Just like the call of an anonymous sex offender


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## Alwaysmind (Feb 29, 2016)

Why does rank have to matter? Just collpase all the other sections. The layout makes perfect sense.


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## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

So when do I get my new reprank and post rank?


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Feb 29, 2016)

I agree getting a mobile version is a huge deal. In today's age more and more people are using mobile to browse most of the time instead of computers so having an easy to browse site in the mobile would help a lot in attracting new people.

This site has ads which don't annoy really much in the PC but are very invasive on mobile, it is very heavy on data with makes it nearly impossible to browse without wifi, and logins don't last a lot which is annoying. Plus the rep button is broken on mobile. Also text can be hard to read on mobile because of the font size some times. A more compact and minimalist mobile version would help a lot.


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## Reznor (Feb 29, 2016)

Nighty said:


> well I don't know much about the specifics of the mafia section's storied history (so don't take this as gospel), just that there's been a variety of conflicts with the staff in the past. However I never really got the impression the conflicts were quite the _same _ as obd/blender



Conflict isn't the issue. The DK/Outskirts separation is an attempt to recognize two different styles of modding as both legitimate. The goal is to have parent forums have consistent tones.

Otherwise we'd have either:

1. Consistent modding across the forum. This means that: 
a. your edgy section is going to become a carebear section or 
b. it means KCC is going to become the Blender.

OR 

2. Each section is run entirely differently, which leads to the perception/reality that differences in enforcement are arbitrary. 
(I don't think the dynamic of just learning what mods allow what is a good thing.)

Instead, each parent forum is going to try to have somewhat consistent modding within it's borders. How "rowdy" and how "friendly" the Outskirts and Downtown are going to be is still being calibrated by the staff.


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## Nello (Feb 29, 2016)

Reznor said:


> Conflict isn't the issue. The DK/Outskirts separation is an attempt to recognize two different styles of modding as both legitimate. The goal is to have parent forums have consistent tones.
> 
> Otherwise we'd have either:
> 
> ...



I've basically said this before but I think it's important that DK as the forum's general chit chat section is relatively friendly so newcomers can mingle with other members and socialize. The community is an essential part of this forum.


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## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

> 1. Consistent modding across the forum. This means that:
> a. your edgy section is going to become a carebear section or
> b. it means KCC is going to become the Blender.



Wait, so the only two options you people advocate are complete chaos with no rules, and "carebear"?


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## Reznor (Feb 29, 2016)

Rey said:


> Wait, so the only two options you people advocate are complete chaos with no rules, and "carebear"?



No                       .


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## Savior (Feb 29, 2016)

Would be great to have a couple half decent mods in the Cafe. As it is, the place is just not going to attract new users. 

Love how a thread from a tabloid newspaper is left open for so long and the usual suspects let it be since it fits their agenda.


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## Krory (Feb 29, 2016)

Savior said:


> Would be great to have a couple half decent mods in the Cafe. As it is, the place is just not going to attract new users.
> 
> Love how a thread from a tabloid newspaper is left open for so long and the usual suspects let it be since it fits their agenda.



Unfortunately a lot of stuff like that, even Guardian and Gawker, go unchecked. As I mentioned there was even one recently with no source and it was left alone.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 1, 2016)

Reznor said:


> Conflict isn't the issue. The DK/Outskirts separation is an attempt to recognize two different styles of modding as both legitimate. The goal is to have parent forums have consistent tones.
> 
> Otherwise we'd have either:
> 
> ...



I feel like there should be a plausible middle ground here, especially perhaps for sections like the cafe which seem to serve a much larger purpose than either the blender or the obd in terms of what the point of the section is.


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## Krory (Mar 1, 2016)

Stop trying to be rational, nighty.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 1, 2016)

sorry


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## FLORIDA MAN (Mar 1, 2016)

stop shitposting krory


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## Krory (Mar 1, 2016)

stop triggering me wad


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## Zensuki (Mar 1, 2016)

I posted my thoughts in another thread but this seems more relevant.
Things I like:
- Cafe being moved down: most unfriendly place on the forum and will put people off.
- General Anime and Manga being moved up to make the forums less Naruto centric and build other communities.
Things I do not like:
- fanclubs being placed outside their respective sections (Naruto fanclub should be under Naruto Avenue). 

Naruto as a franchise has obviously slowed down since the conclusion of the original manga however its still one of the most popular animes around, and there is still a lot for the fandom to look forward to: anime (ending, Gaiden, Boruto, movies) and manga (monthly Boruto). Is it not still the biggest reason why people join these forums and the section that draws the most traffic? I think being the welcoming place for Naruto discussion of any kind is important for the future of this board since there aren't many alternatives (if any) that allow in depth discussion as well as forming sub communities. More focus should be placed on general anime/manga, as well as off topic communities but I don't think NF should ever abandon its focal point: Naruto.


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## Krory (Mar 1, 2016)

Sorry, we don't accept opinions from SasuSaku fans.


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## ~M~ (Mar 1, 2016)

Hey guys solution yet?


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## FLORIDA MAN (Mar 1, 2016)

Perhaps...

A...FINAL one?


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## scerpers (Mar 1, 2016)

SHOUTS OUT TO HITLER, HE BE HELLA KILLIN TONS OF JEWS


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## ~M~ (Mar 1, 2016)

WAD said:


> Perhaps...
> 
> A...FINAL one?



Calm down mega 

You'll never get smod like this


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## Gilgamesh (Mar 2, 2016)

i don't like this, everything is confusing and different.


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## ~M~ (Mar 2, 2016)

Gilgamesh said:


> i don't like this, everything is confusing and different.



These were almost my thoughts word per word as I scrolled the front page, a rare occasion 

And I tried to accept things change 

But nonetheless I gave up within 3 seconds and said fuck it, the complaints and questions section (at the top now that it's not at the bottom? IDEK) isn't as interesting as the chatterbox I'm already subscribed to. 

I really wish the 'forum leaders' could take a leadership position and inform us of issues at hand so we can be aware of where the right hand is going so the left hand isn't contrary


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