# SM Hashirama and RH Madara vs Juubito



## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

Location: VoTE(madara and hashirama era)
Distance: 50m
Knowledge: Manga.
Mindset: kill (kurama's mindset too)
Restrictions: Sun Barrier
Added feats: SS can form with PS, madara has both his rinnegan. Hashi and mads
Can interact with kurama (get chakra from)
Scenario 2: no restrictions.


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## Kyu (Feb 15, 2014)

Wut is 'RH' Madara?


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 15, 2014)

Madara soloes, especially considering the fact that he can summon Kurama,


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

Kyu said:


> Wut is 'RH' Madara?



Rinbo Hengoku Madara


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## Ersa (Feb 15, 2014)

Juubito stomps.

Sun Barrier followed up by four Juubidama ends this instantly.

Juubidara should be stronger however.


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Madara soloes, especially considering the fact that he can summon Kurama,



Should I restrict kurama? And even though I'm a madara fan, I doubt that he can solo juubito.


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Juubito stomps.
> 
> Sun Barrier followed up by four Juubidama ends this instantly.
> 
> Juubidara should be stronger however.



I restricted the barrier for scenario 1. And Shinsuusenju can be cloaked with PS.


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## The Prodigy (Feb 15, 2014)

Juubito really isn't far above Madara after he was revived and got 1 Rinnegan. Being able to blitz SM Naruto and Sai without eyes, and be able to make Sasuke's efforts at taijutsu irrelevant. Then what we've seen of his with just one eye... adding in the second eye and SM Hashirama (not the weakened edo) I don't really see how Juubito can win. I mean he's stronger than both individually, yeah. But together? I don't think so.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 15, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Should I restrict kurama? And even though I'm a madara fan, I doubt that he can solo juubito.



..................Madara with both eyes still soloes, even Madara with just 1 eye was not far behind  Juubito. Madara makes a Mokouton clone, summons Gedo Mazu and Kurama, coats both in PS armour and proceeds to destroy Juubito.


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## The Prodigy (Feb 15, 2014)

Can Madara still summon the mazou if Obito's already Juubi jin?


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

The Prodigy said:


> Can Madara still summon the mazou if Obito's already Juubi jin?



I don't think it's possible. it's probably like the whole kurama and naruto thing.


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## ARGUS (Feb 15, 2014)

Juubito wins this low/mid diff

He has the FTG level speed to avoid most of the attacks that Madara and Hashirama throw at him,,,His Juubi TBB are soo powerful that their AOE completely dwarves mountains 
[1] 
this TBB is from an incomplete juubi,,, now imagine if this power is concentrated 
while the legendary duo has the advantage of SM,, in-order to attack Juubito,, their defences are easily overcame by a barrage of JUubi TBB,,,  
RH would literally do nothing to someone as durable as Juubito,,, 
onmyouton negates most of their offense as well 
CQC is literally suicide for Madara and Hashirama  as this dude is insanely fast and his strength is far too much for Madara and Hashirama to compete
[1] 
this literally ends Madara and Hashirama
SS cannot be coated by PS since it's much mch larger than it 
They are not surviving long enough against juubito anyways since a barrage of TBB would destroy them immediately 
CK is the only offensive hope for Duo but even that is either tanked evaded or negated
Only a juubi jinchuuriki can defeat a juubi jinchuuriki


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Juubito wins this low/mid diff
> 
> He has the FTG level speed to avoid most of the attacks that Madara and Hashirama throw at him,,,His Juubi TBB are soo powerful that their AOE completely dwarves mountains
> Link removed
> ...



well In this fight, a senjutsu enhanced ps can wrap around SS.
And how can juubito negate senjutsu enhanced ninjutsu?
And once again, the sun barrier is restricted for scenario 1.

P.s I believe I've seen this post before, did you repost this?


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

Kifflom, so your telling me that juubito can negate/evade/tank a barrage of senjutsu enhanced PS coated Shinsuusenju hits?


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 15, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Juubito wins this low/mid diff
> 
> He has the FTG level speed to avoid most of the attacks that Madara and Hashirama throw at him,,,His Juubi TBB are soo powerful that their AOE completely dwarves mountains
> Link removed
> ...



No. Most of Hashiramas and Madaras techniques are not escapable, they also both have greater reflexes then Naruto and Sasuke (especially Madara) whom kept up with Juubito just fine in the end. His Jubidama got tanked by Mokujin and PS, and there is no barrier here, so god knows how far the Jubidamas will be shot. RH will do plenty to someone who got busted by a SM Rasengan, his durability is average if the attacks are SM.  the barrage won't destroy them. 

Madara soloes.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 15, 2014)

Since Hashirama is a Senjutsu user, he and Madara can probably beat Juubito the same way Nardo and Sauce did: combination attack.

Senjutsu Perfect Susano'o Kurama is basically what they used, and Shodai might even be able to throw Shinsuusenju on top of all that. And Madara has both Rinnegan here, too?

Juubito gets creamed, although the rivals will have to attack all-out to get the job done.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 15, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> ..................Madara with both eyes still soloes, even Madara with just 1 eye was not far behind  Juubito. Madara makes a Mokouton clone, summons Gedo Mazu and Kurama, coats both in PS armour and proceeds to destroy Juubito.


Juubito is on a far, far higher tier than living Madara. Eyes don't make a difference. Juubito speedblitzes him and rips him apart with his bare hands or creates four Juubi supercharged Bijudama's and fires them simultaneously. Or Juubito goes Biju Mode and wipes Madara out with Bijudama spam and Tenpenchii.

Hashirama and Madara lose, flat out.


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## ARGUS (Feb 15, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> well In this fight, a senjutsu enhanced ps can wrap around SS.
> And how can juubito negate senjutsu enhanced ninjutsu?
> And once again, the sun barrier is restricted for scenario 1.
> 
> P.s I believe I've seen this post before, did you repost this?



despite the senjutsu enhancements how can PS wrap around SS which is almost 10 times larger than itself???? 
My bad,, about the barrier restricted,,, 

and yes i have posted something similar but that matchup had only Madara against Juubito so i made some changes here to state something regarding hashirama



Destiny Monarch said:


> His Jubidama got tanked by Mokujin and PS, and there is no barrier here, so god knows how far the Jubidamas will be shot. RH will do plenty to someone who got busted by a SM Rasengan, his durability is average if the attacks are SM. *the barrage won't destroy them. *
> 
> *Madara soloes*.



No it didnt get tanked by Mokujin and PS since they both lost it afterwards
plus its possible that only 1 TBB went towards Madara and Hashirama,,,, 
1 TBB from an incomplete juubi managed to destroy an entire country miles away,,, a barrage of those TBB from a more powerful form is likely to heavily injure them,,,if not kill them 
RH would do more than SM rasengan,, however unlike the bijuu,, juubito is not a sitting duck for that attack,,he is also fastter than madara and honestly i dnt see RH to be the gamechanger here

Madara can definitely not solo,,,its not happening


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## Brooks (Feb 15, 2014)

One-eye Madara wasn't far behind Juubito....Two eye Rinngan Maadara teamed up with Hashirama should be able to take this.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 15, 2014)

Brooks said:


> One-eye Madara wasn't far behind Juubito....Two eye Rinngan Maadara teamed up with Hashirama should be able to take this.


From feats, one-eyed Madara is still WAY behind Juubito. Same with two eyes. Hashirama doesn't make a difference. If Juubito's bloodlusted, both Hashirama and Madara die before realizing Juubito even moved.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 15, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Juubito is on a far, far higher tier than living Madara. Eyes don't make a difference. Juubito speedblitzes him and rips him apart with his bare hands or creates four Juubi supercharged Bijudama's and fires them simultaneously. Or Juubito goes Biju Mode and wipes Madara out with Bijudama spam and Tenpenchii.
> 
> Hashirama and Madara lose, flat out.



Naruto and Sasuke beat Juubito, so why wouldn't Hashirama and Madara? They can use the same exact tricks, and they're a lot stronger too. Madara even has the complete Kyuubi as opposed to just the Yang half.


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## ARGUS (Feb 15, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Naruto and Sasuke beat Juubito, so why wouldn't Hashirama and Madara? They can use the same exact tricks, and they're a lot stronger too. Madara even has the complete Kyuubi as opposed to just the Yang half.



Not really it was the whole SA that beat Juubito 
and since Juubito was focusing alot of his chakra on the God treee,, he was weakened because of it,,,, Naruto & Sasuke alone wouldve died many times against juubito had it not been for Minato and Tobirama,, 2 FTG users & one of them is also a jinchhuuriki


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## Brooks (Feb 15, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> From feats, one-eyed Madara is still WAY behind Juubito. Same with two eyes. Hashirama doesn't make a difference. If Juubito's bloodlusted, both Hashirama and Madara die before realizing Juubito even moved.



Well, for once....that Juuito form blitzed a clone Hashirama(who was said to be a fodder compare to the original  one) and didn't One-eye reacted to Tobirama's FTG and toyed with EMS Sasuke(who reacted to Juubito's attacks to save Naruto)? it's logical that Two Madara would be far superior to One-eye Madara in everything including speed....Juubito can find other ways to win the match but blitzing them is out of the question.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 15, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Juubito is on a far, far higher tier than living Madara. Eyes don't make a difference. Juubito speedblitzes him and rips him apart with his bare hands or creates four Juubi supercharged Bijudama's and fires them simultaneously. Or Juubito goes Biju Mode and wipes Madara out with Bijudama spam and Tenpenchii.
> 
> Hashirama and Madara lose, flat out.



Your kidding right? You do realize that Naruto and Sasuke kept up with him right? You do realize that Madara has better eyes then Sasuke, is physically faster and has SM reflexes as well right? O
Don't spout out BS, Mdara dodges Juubito with a leg tied to his back. PS and Mokujin have already tanked the 4 Jubidamas and the barrier is restricted so the Bijudamas will be flying elsewhere. 



Kifflom!! said:


> [No it didnt get tanked by Mokujin and PS since they both lost it afterwards
> plus its possible that only 1 TBB went towards Madara and Hashirama,,,,
> 1 TBB from an incomplete juubi managed to destroy an entire country miles away,,, a barrage of those TBB from a more powerful form is likely to heavily injure them,,,if not kill them
> RH would do more than SM rasengan,, however unlike the bijuu,, juubito is not a sitting duck for that attack,,he is also fastter than madara and honestly i dnt see RH to be the gamechanger here
> ...



So what? PS and Mokujin served their purpose, which was to keep the two in tact. Madara had some bruises while Hasniramas condition was unknown. The initial tank is all he needs, from there, he begins the counter attack. A Jubidama never destroyed a country, it destroyed a village. Juubito, like the Biju, cannot counter RH which is undetectable and instant. He's faster then Madara, but he's not blitzing him so it does not matter.


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## The World (Feb 15, 2014)

Juubito is too fast and can tank most likely everything Hashi and Mads can dish out

he sweeps eventually


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## The World (Feb 15, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> *Naruto and Sasuke beat Juubito,* so why wouldn't Hashirama and Madara? They can use the same exact tricks, and they're a lot stronger too. Madara even has the complete Kyuubi as opposed to just the Yang half.



are you serious? 

Naruto tricked Obito by making him lose confidence for about a second thinking of Rin and then had the whole alliance rip out the Bijuu

We don't even know if Hashi or Mads can just enter Obito's Bijuu mindscape and delay him long enough to look the other way and rip out the Bijuu


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 15, 2014)

The World said:


> Juubito is too fast and can tank most likely everything Hashi and Mads can dish out
> 
> he sweeps eventually



Juubito was not too fast for Naruto or Sasuke..........and he was not able to tank a SM rasengan, which blew a whole in his back.


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## ARGUS (Feb 15, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Juubito was not too fast for Naruto or Sasuke..........and he was not able to tank a SM rasengan, which blew a whole in his back.



Naruto and Sasuke were backed up and marked by 2 FTG users,,,who barely managed to avoid Juubito themselves regardless of the numbers advantage 
Madara and Hashirama are slower than FTG users,,, and BM/BSM Naruto,,


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 15, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Naruto and Sasuke beat Juubito, so why wouldn't Hashirama and Madara? They can use the same exact tricks, and they're a lot stronger too. Madara even has the complete Kyuubi as opposed to just the Yang half.


Naruto and Sasuke beat Juubito since Juubito _was holding back against them._ Obito explicitly said he was holding back to test and see if Naruto would fall into despair like he did. He has no reason to do that against Hashirama and Madara and blitzes them.



Destiny Monarch said:


> Your kidding right? You do realize that Naruto and Sasuke kept up with him right?


You do realize Obito was holding back against them greatly, right? And Obito only lost since Naruto possessed the chakra's from the Biju, right?


> You do realize that Madara has better eyes then Sasuke, is physically faster and has SM reflexes as well right? O


The fact Naruto and Sasuke could even track Obito means that their sensing and eyes are a bit better than Madara and Hashirama's.


> Don't spout out BS, Mdara dodges Juubito with a leg tied to his back. PS and Mokujin have already tanked the 4 Jubidamas and the barrier is restricted so the Bijudamas will be flying elsewhere.


You're overestimating Madara's and Hashirama's reflexes and operating under the assumption Sasuke and Naruto are greatly weaker than them. And PS and Mokuton tanked the Juubidama's? Are you high? They were wiped off the map, the only Mokuton that survived was Obito's OWN.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 15, 2014)

Juubito mops the floor with them he can spam TBB RH Madara is good and all but he isn't quite on the level of Juubito


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## crystalblade13 (Feb 15, 2014)

I dont know what manga some of you are reading. juubito flys up, encircles himself with omyouton, and fires a continent buster straight down at hashi and mads.

juubito wins zero difficulty.

also, to silence destiny monarchs contant lying about ps and ss surviving the quadrupile bijudama, i've provided the links below. before the splosion, the techniques were activated, after it, hashi and mads were shown in base. indicating the destruction of their techniques. not the opposite.

words

words

words


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## ScottofFury (Feb 15, 2014)

Nothing other than Rikoudo or other Juubi Jins can fight Juubito without plot bullshit. The guy is too powerful, strong and fast. The only reason he lost is because he split his power and got TnJ.

Juubito beat everyone at the same time ..... EVERYONE


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## Jagger (Feb 15, 2014)

Just pointing out this: Realistically, Juubito should have easily beat both Naruto and Sasuke during their fight, but he was far too arrogant to do something worth enough to mention besides just avoiding their attacks and mocking them.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 15, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Just pointing out this: Realistically, Juubito should have easily beat both Naruto and Sasuke during their fight, but he was far too arrogant to do something worth enough to mention besides just avoiding their attacks and mocking them.


It wasn't even arrogance. Juubito needed to test Naruto. He craved it so his position could be proved correct.


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## StickaStick (Feb 15, 2014)

Juubito takes this low dif if he's out for the kill as stated in the OP. Fodderized kages and toyed with Naruto and the Sauce come on now.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Juubito is on a far, far higher tier than living Madara. Eyes don't make a difference. Juubito speedblitzes him and rips him apart with his bare hands or creates four Juubi supercharged Bijudama's and fires them simultaneously. Or Juubito goes Biju Mode and wipes Madara out with Bijudama spam and Tenpenchii.
> 
> Hashirama and Madara lose, flat out.



Scan showing that obito can go into bijuu mode and preform Tenpenchii please?
If not, May you not be able to create such fanfic feats other than my added feats.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> From feats, one-eyed Madara is still WAY behind Juubito. Same with two eyes. Hashirama doesn't make a difference. If Juubito's bloodlusted, both Hashirama and Madara die before realizing Juubito even moved.



Lol madara get blitzed by juubito, you do remember that he reacted and countered FTG right? Same thing goes for hashirama, they're not getting blitzed here.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Scan showing that obito can go into bijuu mode and preform Tenpenchii please?
> If not, May you not be able to create such fanfic feats other than my added feats.


Given he has full control over the Juubi, he can do Tenpenchii. And we saw him go Biju Mode when he created the Shinju Tree, remember?


Fiiction said:


> Lol madara get blitzed by juubito, you do remember that he reacted and countered FTG right? Same thing goes for hashirama, they're not getting blitzed here.


Madara never reacted nor countered Hiraishin. He sensed Tobirama's movements and chakra signature and avoided. Madara IS getting blitzed, same as Hashirama since Juubito has an overwhelming speed advantage.

Can you stop wanking Madara and Hashirama too?


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 16, 2014)

l Paragon l said:


> Juubito takes this low dif if he's out for the kill as stated in the OP. Fodderized kages and toyed with Naruto and the Sauce come on now.



Funny thing is. Madara fodderized all 9 Biju, the Sauce and the Kages............so what's your point? 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do realize Obito was holding back against them greatly, right? And Obito only lost since Naruto possessed the chakra's from the Biju, right?



You do realize that that is utter BS right? Up until the last second, Juubito was going for the kill so don't give me this nonsense. Naruto and the Sauce where able to follow and even counter attack Juubito.  



> The fact Naruto and Sasuke could even track Obito means that their sensing and eyes are a bit better than Madara and Hashirama's.



Your joking right? This is a whole new level of ridiculous LOLOLOL. Madara has both Sharingan and SM Sensing in other words, his reflexes are as good as EMS Sasukes and BSM Narutos combined, this is proven by the fact that he dodged a FTG attack FROM BEHIND while he had his guard down. Madara can easily react to Juubito, its not even a question. With EMS eyes alone he can, just like how Sasuke did, and Hashirama can just like how Naruto did. 




> You're overestimating Madara's and Hashirama's reflexes and operating under the assumption Sasuke and Naruto are greatly weaker than them. And PS and Mokuton tanked the Juubidama's? Are you high? They were wiped off the map, the only Mokuton that survived was Obito's OWN.



Overestimating them? No........no I'm not, you think that Narutos and Sasukes are better........enough said  and BTW Sasuke and Naruto ARE greatly weaker then them. You probably didnt notice that Madara beat Naruto and 8 other Biju in under a minute with absolute ease. Of course PS and Mokujin did break down, but they still tanked it for them. 




Kifflom!! said:


> Naruto and Sasuke were backed up and marked by 2 FTG users,,,who barely managed to avoid Juubito themselves regardless of the numbers advantage
> Madara and Hashirama are slower than FTG users,,, and BM/BSM Naruto,,



EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto kept up with Juubito, are you seriously trying to deny this? Madara reacted to a FTG attack from behind and off guard, that was the greatest reflexes/reaction speed feat in the manga.


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## Weapon (Feb 16, 2014)

The plus side is that we have to Senjutsu users now, so the defeat won't look that bad. Juubito will clean up this match up.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> You do realize that that is utter BS right? Up until the last second, Juubito was going for the kill so don't give me this nonsense. Naruto and the Sauce where able to follow and even counter attack Juubito.


Which is why Obito kept demanding that Naruto see how reality really was several dozen times over? He wanted to crush Naruto's spirit and force him to become just like him.




> Your joking right? This is a whole new level of ridiculous LOLOLOL. Madara has both Sharingan and SM Sensing in other words, his reflexes are as good as EMS Sasukes and BSM Narutos combined, this is proven by the fact that he dodged a FTG attack FROM BEHIND while he had his guard down. Madara can easily react to Juubito, its not even a question. With EMS eyes alone he can, just like how Sasuke did, and Hashirama can just like how Naruto did.


Madara reacted to Tobirama himself, NOT FTG. Obito wasn't using the same speed he used to tear Tobirama and Hashirama apart with his bear hands, he was still testing Naruto. You honestly ignore Obito's mindset?





> Overestimating them? No........no I'm not, you think that Narutos and Sasukes are better........enough said  and BTW Sasuke and Naruto ARE greatly weaker then them. You probably didnt notice that Madara beat Naruto and 8 other Biju in under a minute with absolute ease. Of course PS and Mokujin did break down, but they still tanked it for them.


You're Syn on Luffyforums aren't you? Your arguments are just as bad here as they are there. The Juubi is on such a higher tier than the other Biju it isn't even funny. Oh and you probably ignore Madara never faced the Biju's best attacks and plot helped him a lot in that fight since the Biju, Naruto, and Bee never went all out against him.

Sasuke and Naruto are not greatly weaker. That is an assumption and a biased one at that. If they were, they wouldn't have been able to survive against the Juubi, against Juubito's tests, etc. Naruto and Sasuke do a feat which is beyond that of Madara or Hashirama, you claim Madara and Hashirama can do the same despite things.

Oh and if Perfect Susano'o and Hashirama's Mokuton tanked the Juubidama's, _they would still be standing._ Instead, they were completely obliterated and Madara and Hashirama spent their off panels regenerating. I mean dear god, if Madara's Meteor can obliterate him, the Juubidama's would wipe him off the map.


> EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto kept up with Juubito, are you seriously trying to deny this? Madara reacted to a FTG attack from behind and off guard, that was the greatest reflexes/reaction speed feat in the manga.


EMS Sasuke and BSM (note, BIJU SAGE MODE NARUTO), kept up with a Juubito who was toying with them. Madara reacted to Tobirama HIMSELF, not the Hirashin. 

These are lowsy, dishonest arguments you're making.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 16, 2014)

By feats Juubito tears them completely new assholes

There is nothing stopping him from lol blitzing both of them or if he feels the risk of tangoing with SM Hashirama do to Senjutsu to gimping, he holds them off long enough to set up his quad _Juubidamas_ and nukes Hashi & Madara out of fucking existence (regardless if there is a barrier or not or the _firepower_ a 100% Kurama & Shinsuusenju give them) 

He's a completely different tier then them


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

The World said:


> are you serious?
> 
> Naruto tricked Obito by making him lose confidence for about a second thinking of Rin and then had the whole alliance rip out the Bijuu



Are you talking about after he got incapacitated by the ps coated kurama avatar or before when he got his so called ninjutsu nullifying shield broken by 9 sm enhanced rasengan? Or during that time where all he could think about was rin?


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## ARGUS (Feb 16, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> EMS Sasuke and BSM Naruto kept up with Juubito, are you seriously trying to deny this? Madara reacted to a FTG attack from behind and off guard, that was the greatest reflexes/reaction speed feat in the manga.



They kept up because they were both backed up by 2 FTG users
had it not been for Minato or Tobirama,,, Naruto & Sasuke wouldve lost quite easily to juubito
i never said that Madara will get blitzed by Juubito,, all i said was that Madara will not be able to overpower Juubito at all,, especially in CQC


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Are you talking about after he got incapacitated by the ps coated kurama avatar or before when he got his so called ninjutsu nullifying shield broken by 9 sm enhanced rasengan? Or during that time where all he could think about was rin?


Dude, he was purposely testing Naruto the entire fight. He wanted Naruto give into despair when he himself was seeing that his own philosophy was false. If he wanted Naruto and Sasuke dead, he would have killed them.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

I think hashi and mads are being underestimated here. They both have SM, Healing, massive chakra reserves, ps coated SS that dwarfed mountains and 100% kurama, intense reflexes, madara has speed that blitzed a sm user, he solo'd every tailed beast in two panels, solo'd Tobirama(which juubito failed to do).
If a ps coated senjutsu enhanced 60%-70% kurama avatar can defeat juubito, what's stopping a Senjutsu enhanced PS coated Shinsuusenju from doing so?


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Dude, he was purposely testing Naruto the entire fight. He wanted Naruto give into despair when he himself was seeing that his own philosophy was false. If he wanted Naruto and Sasuke dead, he would have killed them.



So he didn't want them dead? Where was this stated that juubito didn't want sasuke or naruto dead especially after their attempts to defeat him??  Sometimes I wonder....


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## ARGUS (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> So he didn't want them dead? Where was this stated that juubito didn't want sasuke or naruto dead especially after their attempts to defeat him??  Sometimes I wonder....



Maybe not sasuke but he still needed Naruuto alive, since he needed the kyuubi to speed up the infinite tsukuyomi


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Maybe not sasuke but he still needed Naruuto alive, since he needed the kyuubi to speed up the infinite tsukuyomi


Wrong. He wanted Naruto to become just like him, he wanted to crush his spirit.



Fiiction said:


> So he didn't want them dead? Where was this stated that juubito didn't want sasuke or naruto dead especially after their attempts to defeat him??  Sometimes I wonder....


Its like what Bane wanted to do to Bruce Wayne in Dark Knight Rises. He wanted to crush his spirit, destroy everything he loved, THEN kill him when his philosophy was proven right.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Maybe not sasuke but he still needed Naruuto alive, since he needed the kyuubi to speed up the infinite tsukuyomi



Didn't look he cared if he was alive or not when he put up those 4 jubbidama's with the intent to obliterate any and everyone inside of the barrier.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> I think hashi and mads are being underestimated here.


No, they're being wanked and overestimated.


> They both have SM


Very few jutsus that can capitalize on that.


> Healing


Doesn't help against quadruple Juubidama's or Yin-Yan weaponry.


> massive chakra reserves


And Obito has the full power of the Juubi behind him.


> ps coated SS that dwarfed mountains and 100% kurama


Both of which are inferior to the power of the Juubi.


> intense reflexes


Hashirama's reflexes haven't been shown to be great and Madara's had to have the Rinnegan and Sage Mode.


> madara has speed that blitzed a sm user


Same Sage Mode user who used the majority of his Senjutsu chakra in a massive attack that left him weakened, right? Have to be honest there don't we.


> he solo'd every tailed beast in two panels


1. Juubi makes every tailed beast look weak.
2. Said Biju never used their best attacks and had lobotomies and never counter attacked.


> solo'd Tobirama(which juubito failed to do).


You were saying?

Juubito blitzed and soloed Tobirama in a single move in his less powerful form. Madara could never do that.


> If a ps coated senjutsu enhanced 60%-70% kurama avatar can defeat juubito, what's stopping a Senjutsu enhanced PS coated Shinsuusenju from doing so?


Since Juubito purposely faced it instead of just flying up, wrapping himself in his Yin Yang weaponry, and spamming his Juubidama's?



Fiiction said:


> Didn't look he cared if he was alive or not when he put up those 4 jubbidama's with the intent to obliterate any and everyone inside of the barrier.


Ultimate despair. Thats what he wanted to do to Naruto.


----------



## Nikushimi (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto and Sasuke beat Juubito since Juubito _was holding back against them._ Obito explicitly said he was holding back to test and see if Naruto would fall into despair like he did. He has no reason to do that against Hashirama and Madara and blitzes them.



Uh, Obito said that BEFORE they combined their powers and whooped his monkey butt.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't "holding back" when he whipped out the Rikudou Sennin's legendary shit sword that "created the world" and tried to stab them with it. They even broke the sword.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Uh, Obito said that BEFORE they combined their powers and whooped his monkey butt.


The entire battle was Obito's attempt to break Naruto. To force him to become like him. 




> I'm pretty sure he wasn't "holding back" when he whipped out the Rikudou Sennin's legendary shit sword that "created the world" and tried to stab them with it. They even broke the sword.


He was holding back. His will was weak during that clash since Naruto wouldn't break. The entire battle was to show that Naruto doesn't break in terms of this adversity.

If Obito _wanted_ to win, he just had to do the barrier all over again or hell, just use one Bijudama point blank at Naruto and Sasuke.

Question Nikushimi: How does Hashirama and Madara counter this? The answer is, they can't. How do Hashirama and Madara get through Obito's massive speed and durability advantage? Answer is, they can't. 

All they can do is put up a feeble fight while Obito toys with them. Even if he is cut in half like Naruto and Sasuke did, without Biju Chakra to disrupt the Juubi he just instantly heals.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The entire battle was Obito's attempt to break Naruto. To force him to become like him.



Up to a point, yes.

Then Obito pulled out the Rikudou Sennin's legendary weapon and it snapped like a dry turd.



> He was holding back. His will was weak during that clash since Naruto wouldn't break. The entire battle was to show that Naruto doesn't break in terms of this adversity.



You know what did break? The Rikudou Sennin's legendary sword, which was supposedly Juubito's ace in the hole.



> If Obito _wanted_ to win, he just had to do the barrier all over again or hell, just use one Bijudama point blank at Naruto and Sasuke.



And they would've casually deflected it through the barrier with Senjutsu Perfect Susano'o Bijuu Mode.



> Question Nikushimi: How does Hashirama and Madara counter this? The answer is, they can't.



Senjutsu+Perfect Susano'o+full Kyuubi+maybe Shinsuusenju.

And if this is the living Madara with his original eyes back, then I guess that means he also has his own Sage Mode that he stole from Edo Hashirama.

Yeah, these two are monstrously more powerful than Naruto and Sasuke, who beat Juubito.



> How do Hashirama and Madara get through Obito's massive speed and durability advantage? Answer is, they can't.



They do it the same way Naruto and Sasuke did.



> All they can do is put up a feeble fight while Obito toys with them. Even if he is cut in half like Naruto and Sasuke did, without Biju Chakra to disrupt the Juubi he just instantly heals.



Madara has the Kyuubi, so getting Bijuu chakra shouldn't be a problem.


EDIT: Eww, I became a Shit Lord. When did that happen?


----------



## Garcher (Feb 16, 2014)

Friendship beat Jubito, so Madara and Hashirama can do this too


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## crystalblade13 (Feb 16, 2014)

i cant believe the people arguing for hashi and mads.

once the barrier is up, theres NOTHING hashi and mads can do. jubbito's bijudama's destroy entire countries. his black shield tanked 4 of them. the firepower the opposing team posseses is multi mountain level. aka, not even close.

and as its been pointed out. naruto and sasuke's slash would have been worth fuck all if they didnt latch the biju's chakra onto obito's biju chakra afterwards.       

I mean seriously guys? 

finally on a side note, rikudo's sword was said to be linked to "will". obito's will was shaken at the point where he fought naruto and sasuke. not that it matters since the sword is completely unnessesary here.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 16, 2014)

Why is this even being argued over? Just because you guys don't want your precious Madara to lose?
Face facts Juubidama mops the floor with them


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 16, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> i cant believe the people arguing for hashi and mads.
> 
> once the barrier is up, theres NOTHING hashi and mads can do. jubbito's bijudama's destroy entire countries. his black shield tanked 4 of them. the firepower the opposing team posseses is multi mountain level. aka, not even close.
> 
> ...



All of your point is moot because the barrier is restricted, the Jubidamas have already been tanked and a SM attack like Rasengan was able to destroy Juubito. 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Which is why Obito kept demanding that Naruto see how reality really was several dozen times over? He wanted to crush Naruto's spirit and force him to become just like him.



He was done with that after he became Juubito. This was clear, he attempted to kill him multiple times. 





> Madara reacted to Tobirama himself, NOT FTG. Obito wasn't using the same speed he used to tear Tobirama and Hashirama apart with his bear hands, he was still testing Naruto. You honestly ignore Obito's mindset?



Did you miss the part where Tobirama used FTG slash? And yes he was using the same speed, SM Naruto even said I'm getting accustomed to it, and it was a Hashirama clone BTW, the real Hashi would have dodged it. He was using full speed, I'm not ignoring anything. 






> You're Syn on Luffyforums aren't you? Your arguments are just as bad here as they are there. The Juubi is on such a higher tier than the other Biju it isn't even funny. Oh and you probably ignore Madara never faced the Biju's best attacks and plot helped him a lot in that fight since the Biju, Naruto, and Bee never went all out against him.



No, no I'm not. And I don't think you should be calling my arguments bad with the BS that you are spouting. Your spouting nothing but BS here attempting to support you argument, the Biju had no reason to not go all out, they had no counter to RH followed by Demonic Chains combo, that's that, there is really nothing you can say when the feat was right in front of us.  



> Sasuke and Naruto are not greatly weaker. That is an assumption and a biased one at that. If they were, they wouldn't have been able to survive against the Juubi, against Juubito's tests, etc. Naruto and Sasuke do a feat which is beyond that of Madara or Hashirama, you claim Madara and Hashirama can do the same despite things.



I'm going to make a thread to show how ridiculous you really are, and then you think I revenge neg you? How about you look at what you write and then maybe you will realize that I did not revenge neg you. Madara is not greatly stronger then Naruto? Dude...........he beat all 9 Biju including Naruto easily, THIS IS A FACT THAT YOU CAN'T DENY, don't say they where not trying against the last remaining and biggest threat in the series. Madara has the greatest reaction feat in Naruto, Naruto not Sasuke would be able to dodge FTG Slash from behind while caught off guard thinking they have won. Hashirama was able to dodge PS slashes and a Bijudama Shuriken and with SM his reflexes get heightened. 



> Oh and if Perfect Susano'o and Hashirama's Mokuton tanked the Juubidama's, _they would still be standing._ Instead, they were completely obliterated and Madara and Hashirama spent their off panels regenerating. I mean dear god, if Madara's Meteor can obliterate him, the Juubidama's would wipe him off the map.



They where standing when they where shown again. And Madara had bruises, which indicates that he did not have to regenerate. And then I see just how many of a hater You really are with your last sentence, which holds absolutely no relevance to this because he did not use PS to block the meteor. Your really desperate now aren't you. 



> EMS Sasuke and BSM (note, BIJU SAGE MODE NARUTO), kept up with a Juubito who was toying with them. Madara reacted to Tobirama HIMSELF, not the Hirashin.
> 
> These are lowsy, dishonest arguments you're making.



Juubito was not toying with them at that point, he brought him near death twice, once Naruto just barely tanked his attack and the other time he was saved by Hiruzen, Juubito went all out at that point. Madara dodged FTG slash from behind while being caught off guard because he had thought he won, and Madaras eyes are more advanced then Sasukes, so if Sasuke was able to so can Madara. 



Kifflom!! said:


> They kept up because they were both backed up by 2 FTG users
> had it not been for Minato or Tobirama,,, Naruto & Sasuke wouldve lost quite easily to juubito
> i never said that Madara will get blitzed by Juubito,, all i said was that Madara will not be able to overpower Juubito at all,, especially in CQC



No they kept up when they where alone as well. I never said Madara will overpower Juubito, he will be atop PS when he destroys him, which is quiet the long range.


----------



## Jagger (Feb 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Uh, Obito said that BEFORE they combined their powers and whooped his monkey butt.
> 
> I'm pretty sure he wasn't "holding back" when he whipped out the Rikudou Sennin's legendary shit sword that "created the world" and tried to stab them with it. They even broke the sword.


Nor they should survived the impact of an incoming Bijuudama. For the first half of the fight, Juubito was simlpy avoiding their attacks and staying in a defensive form instead of attacking. 

The moment he got anoyed at them, he threw them to the ground like ants. In that moment, he could have erased them the same way he erased both Hashirama's clone and Tobirama like nothing and the same way he took the Yellow Flash's arm.

But, oh well, Kishi and his things.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 16, 2014)

Juubito is stronger than either of these guys individually, but he isn't going to survive against their combined efforts.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Up to a point, yes.
> 
> Then Obito pulled out the Rikudou Sennin's legendary weapon and it snapped like a dry turd.
> 
> You know what did break? The Rikudou Sennin's legendary sword, which was supposedly Juubito's ace in the hole.



Wasn't it implied it (the sword) failed because Obito subconsciously wanted to loose?



Nikushimi said:


> And they would've casually deflected it through the barrier with Senjutsu Perfect Susano'o Bijuu Mode.



Um...no... no it wouldn't. Your really going to say BSM Shinsuusenju could physically backhand a _Juubiama_ through a barrier that contained a simultaneous *quadruple* country oneshotting Juubidama explosion

Unless your name is Minato or Tobirama *NOTHING* is getting out of that barrier point blank period, and you are going to die




Nikushimi said:


> Senjutsu+Perfect Susano'o+full Kyuubi+maybe Shinsuusenju.



.... which combined still lack the cumulative firepower of Stage 2 Shinju... something that was casually howitzering countries, something with substantially less firepower than Juubito



Nikushimi said:


> And if this is the living Madara with his original eyes back, then I guess that means he also has his own Sage Mode that he stole from Edo Hashirama.



Which still doesn't help against _Onmyoton_ or quad Juubidama's



Nikushimi said:


> Yeah, these two are monstrously more powerful than Naruto and Sasuke, who beat Juubito.



The power gap between Naruto & Sasuke vs. Hashirama and Madara is not enough to make up the 2 tier+ power difference. Juubito is the closet thing to Rikudo bar current Madara, and you think Hashi & Mads have a chance? 

Nothing was stopping Juubito from simply blitzing Naruto & Sasuke's heads off after he CST pile drove them into the ground, or simply setting up another quad Juubidama for the lols. Naruto & Sasuke beat Jubito due to plot and Obito's own PIS.... that simple



Nikushimi said:


> They do it the same way Naruto and Sasuke did.



You mean with PIS and plot on their side. Obito choose to engage in CqC rather than re nuking that quadrant of the planet



Nikushimi said:


> Madara has the Kyuubi, so getting Bijuu chakra shouldn't be a problem.



Kurama has shown he too can run out of chakra (ablight it takes a while), Shinju won't... ever

The gap between Juubito and Rinnegan Madara & SM Hashirama is about the same as Edo Itachi vs. Hebi Sasuke or a healthy Nagato vs. SM Naruto, it's an utter rape stomp


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## ZE (Feb 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Up to a point, yes.
> 
> Then Obito pulled out the Rikudou Sennin's legendary weapon and it snapped like a dry turd.
> 
> ...



That's fine and dandy but Naruto and Sasuke didn't beat Jyuubito. They cut him with a PS+BSM fusion, but Jyuubito regenerated from it. 

The only reason that cut did anything was because Naruto had the Bijuu chakra inside him that resonated with the Jyuubi power inside Obito, which later allowed Naruto, Sasuke, Minato and all of the other top tiers to pull the bijuus from Obito. 

In a fair battle, Obito would've kept regenerating from Naruto and Sasuke's attacks. In short, they had nothing that could've put Obito down. 

I mean, a mindless Jyuubi was already so above Hashirmara that the difference in strength between them was made clear with one simple physical attack. Here we're talking about an even stronger Obito than that one. Madara isn't enough to close the enormous gap that separates Jyuubito and Hashirama.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> RH Madara is good and all but he isn't quite on the level of Juubito



That's why hashirama is here.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

You guys are acting as if the 4 jubbidama's set off instantly, like madara and hashirama are just gonna stand their and wait to see what happens.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> You guys are acting as if the 4 jubbidama's set off instantly, like madara and hashirama are just gonna stand their and wait to see what happens.


They aren't having much choice Fiction. Madara and Hashirama are at Juubito's mercy the ENTIRE fight since Juubito is on such a higher tier than they are they can't even fight back effectively.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> That's why hashirama is here.


Against Juubito him being there won't really help their chances of winning


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> They aren't having much choice Fiction. Madara and Hashirama are at Juubito's mercy the ENTIRE fight since Juubito is on such a higher tier than they are they can't even fight back effectively.



How don't they have choice if juubito is taking the time to pull out the shinju? He hasn't shown the capability to use omnyouton and pull out the shinju at the same time so that's and opening right there. I'm pretty sure a yasaka magantama can do more damage then a rasengan.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Against Juubito him being there won't really help their chances of winning



Sasuke and Naruto says yes.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> How don't they have choice if juubito is taking the time to pull out the shinju? He hasn't shown the capability to use omnyouton and pull out the shinju at the same time so that's and opening right there. I'm pretty sure a yasaka magantama can do more damage then a rasengan.


Rasengan has better destructive feats while in Sage Mode and even then, Juubito _shrugged it off._ And yeah, Juubito did show he can bring out the Juubi and use omnyouton at the same time.

They don't have a choice due to how much more powerful Juubito is compared to them. He could create four Juubi Bijudama tree's, all direct them at the middle of the field and vape Hashirama and Madara with _12 Juubi Bijudamas_ while he levitates in the air.

Oh, Juubito's Yin-Yang weapons are durable enough to tank a Senjutsu, Kurama empowered massive Rasengan without breaking. Yasaka Magatama-hell all of Madara's and Hashirama's attacks aren't gonna do shit.



Fiiction said:


> Sasuke and Naruto says yes.


You really love ignoring context don't you?


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Rasengan has better destructive feats while in Sage Mode and even then, Juubito _shrugged it off._ And yeah, Juubito did show he can bring out the Juubi and use omnyouton at the same time.
> 
> They don't have a choice due to how much more powerful Juubito is compared to them. He could create four Juubi Bijudama tree's, all direct them at the middle of the field and vape Hashirama and Madara with _12 Juubi Bijudamas_ while he levitates in the air.
> 
> ...



So you're giving juubito feats he hasn't shown which he can't do at all.
A senjutsu enhanced rasengan is more destructive than a senjutsu enhanced yasaka magantama?
Madara and hashirama's attacks are useless despite having juubito's weakness?
Btw I was talking about while he was summoning the tree(with his hands on the ground)

This response and you neg rep me? Lol why do I even bother to reply to your biased comments.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> So you're giving juubito feats he hasn't shown which he can't do at all.


Why can't he do it at all? Its just making another three tree's. 


> A senjutsu enhanced rasengan is more destructive than a senjutsu enhanced yasaka magantama?


Yeah, since Yasaka Magatama has inferior feats in both.


> Madara and hashirama's attacks are useless despite having juubito's weakness?


Not much of a weakness when Madara and Hashirama can't properly capitalize on it.


> Btw I was talking about while he was summoning the tree(with his hands on the ground)


And he can make more of them.


> This response and you neg rep me? Lol why do I even bother to reply to your biased comments.


I'm biased? You're the one suggesting Madara and Hashirama win despite all logic. 'OHHH NARUTO AND SASUKE DEFEATED HIM, DURR!', you conveniently ignore Juubito wanted Naruto to defeat him subconsciously, you conveniently ignore that it was Naruto's multiple Biju Chakra that disrupted Obito (something Hashirama and Madara lack), and conveniently ignore several other factors.


----------



## Shinobi no Kami (Feb 16, 2014)

hashirama and madara utterly decimate him. 

with senjutsu, it was stated that madara solos

and hashirama by extension solos because he is stronger than madara and has sage mode attacks which obito cant negate.

*how hashirama and madara counter obito*

*Spoiler*: __ 



hashirama and madara would keep up with obito without any effort. base hashirama and base madara dodged the branches of the shinju without even looking while BSM naruto was instantly subjugated by them.



before there are stupid excuses like, the shinju goes after whoever has the most chakra and more went after naruto, there is this:

_"He's got almost as much chakra as I!"_

_"He's(Naruto) got(possesses) almost as much(close, but not quite) chakra as I(Hashirama)!"_

so no, hashirama wasnt talking about the chakra that naruto distributed. hashirama saw naruto give chakra to the alliance and concluded that narutos reserves are almost on par with his own.

but it wasnt naruto by himself. at this time, narutos chakra was melded with minato and both halves of the kyuubi.
from hashiramas statement, he is above naruto+minato+100% kurama in chakra reserves. 

although, naruto and minatos chakra dont account for much and both kyuubis chakra make up about 99.9% of the bulk of what hashirama mentioned in his statement.

since BSM naruto has inferior reaction feats to base hashirama and BSM naruto kept up with obito , sm hashirama keeps up with obito effortlessly.

sasuke is stated to have not yet surpass madara and he kept up with obito. madara by extension, keeps up with obito effortlessly.


hashirama has shown the ability to give chakra to others.

he gives madara some of his sage mode chakra and obito along with onmyoudon that couldnt even tank some rasengan from K11 are obliterated out of existence.



obitos sword is smaller than the sword of sasukes susano


which is scaled to fit into the hand of 50% kurama

the sword isnt even as big as the hand of 50% kurama. shinsuusenju dwarfs 100% kurama

the sword isnt big enough to slice a single hand off of shinsuusenju. chojo kebutsu obliterates obito who coughed blood and was left with a hole in his back by a simple rasengan:

*Spoiler*: __ 











*how the bijudama tree is countered*

*Spoiler*: __ 



the bijudama tree is worthless. without the barrier, a single one of hashiramas clones is stated to be able to move all 4 bijudamas to the ocean with jukai koutan.


the bijudama tree is only as big as PS and the mokujin. with the barrier, PS simply destroys the tree with multiple slashes before the bijudamas ever charge up.


shinsuusenju also can just pick up the tree and throw it out of the barrier, since its only as big as the PS and the mokujin which shinsuusenju dwarfs.

this is also ignoring the fact that hashirama and madara already survived the 4 juubidama and it only destroyed PS and the mokujin respectively:

madara still has susanos aura surrouding him which wouldnt be there if the bijudama completely destroyed the construct and "killed" madara.
behind hashirama, you can still see mokuton that wasnt completely destroyed.




*how the shinju is countered*

*Spoiler*: __ 



the tree branches of the shinju arent at a scale that would ever be a threat to shinsuusenju or PS.
 the majority of the roots are human sized and the biggest are only multiple times the size of sasukes legged V3 susano which is equal to 50% kurama in size


which is far smaller than 100% kurama, who can fit into the hand of shinsuusenju.

the shinju is pretty much getting ignored and the only real problem would be obito.


----------



## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

Juubito can't make more trees only one that's it. that's like saying itachi has legged susanoo, every ninja with earth and water release has Mokuton, and every hyuuga has rotation.
Since you're so good at pulling out scans, show me 4 trees that shoots out 12 jubbidama's.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> hashirama and madara utterly decimate him.
> 
> with senjutsu, it was stated that madara solos
> 
> ...



Can't wait to see super saiyan man 12's counter to this. Unless it's " he can make 4 juubi trees and shoot out 12 jubbidama.


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## Kickflip Uzumaki (Feb 16, 2014)

Juubidama barrage, GG.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

Kickflip Uzumaki said:


> Juubidama barrage, GG.



With what barrier?


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## Bonly (Feb 16, 2014)

If Kishi is using PIS on Obito just like in the manga when he was fighting most of the time then I'm sure Kishi would ass pull away for these two to win, although if not then chances are they both get nuked to hell.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

For all those people that say "4 jubbidama's gg", what's stopping PS (big enough to coat SS) from chopping the tree down?


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## Joakim3 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> For all those people that say "4 jubbidama's gg", what's stopping PS (big enough to coat SS) from chopping the tree down?



Then they'd detonate and *still* kill Hashirama and Madara seeing the AoE of just one is in the ~1000km range, and thats assuming Obito _allows_ Madara to attack the tree in the first place...

Assuming by some miracle the cut the tree... Obito ups the anti, goes full BM and howitzer nukes the lot along with the country there fighting in


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## Kai (Feb 16, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> and hashirama by extension solos because he is stronger than madara and has sage mode attacks which obito cant negate.


Why make extensions and associations that are completely irrelevant?

Hashirama outright stated a Juubi's Jin is more powerful than he is, and before Obito ascended to a new level of strength at that.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Feb 16, 2014)

Kai said:


> Why make extensions and associations that are completely irrelevant?
> 
> Hashirama outright stated a Juubi's Jin is more powerful than he is, and before Obito ascended to a new level of strength at that.



you mean hashiramas clone states that juubito is stronger than he is. in the japanese text and the VIZ, tobirama makes a remark after hashiramas statement about him just being a clone and that the outcome might change with the real hashirama around.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 16, 2014)

Lel Bijuudama's flying off the battlefield because of no barrier? PS and *Wood Human* *tanking* *four juubidama's*? 

Anyway without naruto's method of yanking the bijuu out of obito they would have got embarrassed by the juubi jin. Not to mention playing with obito's psyche. Without these advantages you need a way to survive juubidama's and madara/hashirama do not have them.

Juubito wins.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Then they'd detonate and *still* kill Hashirama and Madara seeing the AoE of just one is in the ~1000km range, and thats assuming Obito _allows_ Madara to attack the tree in the first place...
> 
> Assuming by some miracle the cut the tree... Obito ups the anti, goes full BM and howitzer nukes the lot along with the country there fighting in



Juubito goes bijuu mode then gets immobilized by hashirama's sage gates as shown in Canon.
The Shinsuusenju then beats him relentlessly while kurama coated with PS shoots bijuudama's with susanoo swords.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

Kai said:


> Why make extensions and associations that are completely irrelevant?
> 
> Hashirama outright stated a Juubi's Jin is more powerful than he is, and before Obito ascended to a new level of strength at that.



You're talking about the clone right?


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## Legendary Itachi (Feb 16, 2014)

If there is no barrier, Hashirama can send the TBB away with Jukai Koutan as he implied. 

Then you get SM Madara + SM Hashirama, who are beasts in their own tier, with KN Cloak? Imagine how powerful a Senjutsu + Kyubi-enhanced Shinsusenju + Perfect Susanoo will be. At least stronger than Friendship no Jutsu by miles 

Then there is Rinnegan, enhanced by Senjutsu + Kyubi chakra again. If fodder Hinata can repel Jubi's arm with Kyubi cloak, now you have Madara who's 100x stronger than Hinata in Base, with Senjutsu together...... 

I don't understand why the duo stands no chance in here, they have quite good chance especially in Scenario 1.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Juubito goes bijuu mode then gets immobilized by hashirama's sage gates as shown in Canon.
> The Shinsuusenju then beats him relentlessly while kurama coated with PS shoots bijuudama's with susanoo swords.



Which do nothing when it tanked it's own country shoting Juubidama + Killer B's going off inside it.... casually at that

Oh and Obito would be in control... So it would be far from mindless


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Which do nothing when it tanked it's own country shoting Juubidama + Killer B's going off inside it.... casually at that
> 
> Oh and Obito would be in control... So it would be far from mindless



What does being in control get you if your immobilized? And when has juubito transformed into bijuumode? Unless this is just mere speculation. Juubito wouldn't want to be a larger target for hashi and mads. And tepenchii gets tanked. Senjutsu does do something to the Juubi.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 16, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> What does being in control get you if your immobilized? And when has juubito transformed into bijuumode? Unless this is just mere speculation. Juubito wouldn't want to be a larger target for hashi and mads. And tepenchii gets tanked. Senjutsu does do something to the Juubi.



Because Obito would just charge a Bijudama and fire it while immobilized knowing full well Shinju can survive the blast while Hashirama & Madara can't. What do you think the god tree was? That was _one_ of Obito's BM modes essentially as he forced Shinju's Stage 2 to transform

The Juubi *Jinchuriki* has weakness to Senjutsu.... not Shinju itself. Obito goes BM and nukes Hashi, Madara and Kurama with them off the planet, and theres nothing they can do to stop it


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## Fiiction (Feb 17, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Because Obito would just charge a Bijudama and fire it while immobilized knowing full well Shinju can survive the blast while Hashirama & Madara can't. What do you think the god tree was? That was _one_ of Obito's BM modes essentially as he forced Shinju's Stage 2 to transform
> 
> The Juubi *Jinchuriki* has weakness to Senjutsu.... not Shinju itself. Obito goes BM and nukes Hashi, Madara and Kurama with them off the planet, and theres nothing they can do to stop it



So the Juubi weakness is everything then. And what stops the tree from getting cut down? Sasuke cut down a branch like it was butter and in this battle, Madara's susanoo is as big as Shinsuusenju.
And hashirama can just summon rashmons to dog the jubbidama's.


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## ARGUS (Feb 17, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> So the Juubi weakness is everything then. And what stops the tree from getting cut down? Sasuke cut down a branch like it was butter and in this battle, *Madara's susanoo is as big as Shinsuusenju.*
> And hashirama can just summon rashmons to* dog the jubbidama's*.



Madaras PS is not even half the size of SS,,, 
Juubidamas would obliterate the rashomons completely,,,, 
as for the tree,, the minute it touches any of Madara and Hashirama,, they would get extermely weakened since it instantaneously sucks up chakra


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## Fiiction (Feb 17, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Madaras PS is not even half the size of SS,,,
> Juubidamas would obliterate the rashomons completely,,,,
> as for the tree,, the minute it touches any of Madara and Hashirama,, they would get extermely weakened since it instantaneously sucks up chakra



In this fight, Madara's ps is large enough to coat SS XD.
The shinju isn't touching them, their reactions are to great as shown in Canon. And they weren't even in sage mode at the time. They're not getting touched here.
Hashirama implied that he could do something similar to what he did with the kyuubi's bijuudama.
I know the jubbidama's are a helluva lot bigger, but he seemed pretty sure he could do it.


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## Kai (Feb 17, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> you mean hashiramas clone states that juubito is stronger than he is. in the japanese text and the VIZ, tobirama makes a remark after hashiramas statement about him just being a clone and that the outcome might change with the real hashirama around.


Tobirama says they will still be outclassed even if they cancel the remaining clones. Hashi already knows that and reaffirms.



			
				Fiiction said:
			
		

> You're talking about the clone right?


And Naruto's clones for example have never spoken in representation of himself/his ability?

Many characters are stronger than Hashi's clone — Madara was playing with six of them while sitting down. Hashirama "hated to put it so bluntly" because the Juubi's Jinchuuriki is beyond even himself. That is only common sense.


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## Fiiction (Feb 17, 2014)

Kai said:


> Tobirama says they will still be outclassed even if they cancel the remaining clones. Hashi already knows that and reaffirms.
> 
> 
> And Naruto's clones for example have never spoken in representation of himself/his ability?
> ...



Yeah I agree juubito>> prime hashirama but I don't think he's stronger in this battle especially with madara and the added feats.


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