# Orochimaru VS Prime Hiruzen



## IzayaOrihara (Nov 6, 2015)

It was said Prime Hiruzen can defeat Orochimaru. Really? Well ... Lets find out!

Location: Chunin Exam Finals Stage

Starting Distance: 50 Metres

Conditions: Kill to Win

State of Mind: Both Bloodlusted.

Stipulations: Orochimaru has Part 1 Edo Tensei prepared with Fuda Tags; zombies inside coffins ready to be summoned. Assume Hiruzen knows every Jutsu in Konoha. He can use these techniques from the; 


*Spoiler*: __ 




Uzumaki Clan: Karin's Feats with Chakra Chains
Uchiha Clan: Grand Fireball etc etc No Sharingan obviosuly
Hyuuga Clan: All Jyuuken techniques that have been shown in the manga. No Byakugan of course.
Inuzuka Clan: He can perform Garoūga with Enma and transform into the 3 headed wolf Kiba used against Sakon.
Aburame Clan: , , , , 
Yamanaka Clan: Shintenshin no Jutsu
Akimichi Clan: Chō no Baika (Choji Level) and anything derived from it
Nara Clan: All of Part 1/Part 2 Shikamaru's feats with Ninpō: Kagemane no Jutsu
Sarutobi Clan: Any Katons shown by Asuma and Fodder Sarutobi Army from the War Arc
Others: Eight Gates (he can use from 1st gate to 6th gate; he has a limit of 60 seconds if he uses 1st gate, 50 seconds if he uses 2nd gate, 40 seconds if he uses 3rd gate, 30 seconds if he uses 4th gate, 20 seconds if he uses 5th and 10 seconds if he uses 6th gate; he can use Raikiri; he can use all of Kurenai's Genjutsu; can summon Tenten's Part 1/Early Part 2 Ninja Tools; and he can summon Gamaken and If Hiruzen touches Katsuyu she can absorb some of Hiruzen's chakra and use it to heal him. She can do this until Hiruzen runs out of chakra. At that point, she can no longer heal him.
Plus, Hiruzen has his Edo Feats; Body Stats; And has thrice the stamina he did when he fought against Orochimaru. Can he win? Also, assume Shirohebi Form is a last resort for Orochimaru. And only from that form, can he then transform into the Yamata no Orochi, his strongest technique.






Knowledge: Full for Orochimaru (due to extensive research) and Manga for Hiruzen (he knows about everything except Orochimaru having Edo Tensei [due to his shocked reaction] and also didn't know about the Power of the White Snake [powers Orochimaru developed after he left Konoha])

Restrictions: Shiki Fuujin (the point of this thread is to see what Hiruzen can do without suiciding). Fushi Tensei (i think thats fair considering Orochimaru is healthy here).

I know Orochimaru is hard to kill, but i also know Hiruzen is powerful, so I think this should be a fun debate!


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## Crow (Nov 6, 2015)

If this is true then Prime Hiruzen wrecks Orochimaru. 
Orochimaru will need ET to compete here.
But Hiruzen will be too good for that to even work. Old Hiruzen was a match for Orochimaru This Hiruzen Wrecks. 
I would say he holds him back with chakra chains uses a shadow clone, and hits him with his strongest technique that he has. He can also use Rakiri to kill him,  and if he gets injured he can summon Katsuyu to heal him. 
Hiruzen wins low to mid diff with these conditions.


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## hbcaptain (Nov 6, 2015)

Orochimaru got stomped here , he admited himself that 10 years before the first part (even with Edo Hashirama and Tobirama) , he would never attack someone as powerful as him so basically : Prime Hiruzen>>Orochimaru , especially wihtout Edo Tensei and the fact that we are talking about prime Hiruzen .

If you add Uzumaki chains (Hiruzen can't use it since it's genetical) , Katsuyu (since when Hiruzen can summon slugs from Shikkotsurin...) , and gates (lol) , then he simply stomps , Orochimaru doesn't stand a chance here .


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## FlamingRain (Nov 6, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Orochimaru got stomped here , he admited himself that 10 years before the first part (even with Edo Hashirama and Tobirama) , he would never attack someone as powerful as him.



Where do people keep reading this at?

I recall Orochimaru stating that had Hiruzen been 10 years younger he would have had enough strength left to succeed with Shiki Fūjin.

Is that what they mean?


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## IzayaOrihara (Nov 6, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Orochimaru got stomped here , he admited himself that 10 years before the first part (even with Edo Hashirama and Tobirama) , he would never attack someone as powerful as him so basically : Prime Hiruzen>>Orochimaru , especially wihtout Edo Tensei and the fact that we are talking about prime Hiruzen .
> 
> If you add Uzumaki chains (Hiruzen can't use it since it's genetical) , Katsuyu (since when Hiruzen can summon slugs from Shikkotsurin...) , and gates (lol) , then he simply stomps , Orochimaru doesn't stand a chance here .



But to be fair Oro didnt go all out. All he used was ET, Senei Jashu and Kusanagi. In this scenario we will see Yamata, White Snake, Manda, Sanjuu Rashomon, Extending Kusanagi. You say stomp and the other guy says wreck. Unless Hiruzen's attack potency >>> KN4 Naruto's i dont see that happening. 

BTW Chakra Chains is not Kekkei Genkai, its Hiden. Im allowing Hiruzen to summon 1% Katsuyu in this thread. 

Hiruzen cant use Shiki Fuujin here. How does he deal wiith Edos that keep regenerating because he can only keep them down with chakra chains for so long.



FlamingRain said:


> Where do people keep reading this at?
> 
> I recall Orochimaru stating that had Hiruzen been 10 years younger he would have had enough strength left to succeed with Shiki Fūjin.
> 
> Is that what they mean?


Exactly.

I haven't decided who win just yet, but before i do, someone give me a realistic scenario of how Hiruzen defeats this

or this


Ther's a lot to deal with at once.

*Spoiler*: __


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## Eliyua23 (Nov 6, 2015)

Prime Hiruzen would've been able to seal Orochimaru completely thats all thats stated my take is that Hiruzen had opportunity in his Edo form to show many more abilities than he showed in pt 1 and outside of AOE elemental attacks he still didn't display anything that could compete with a full powered Orochimaru , the problem with Hiruzen is that his GOS title went to Hashirama as the whole Senju vs Uchiha plot started to develop which left Hiruzen in limbo w/o that I doubt even in his prime he was stronger than Orochimaru as for this thread with these abilities he could defeat anyone bar Rikudo level characters


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## hbcaptain (Nov 6, 2015)

Euh no , Orochimaru began studying Uzumaki clan Fuinjutsu and Shiki Fujin only after he losts his arms :


Hiruzen confirmed in the first part that Orochimaru didn't know about Shiki Fujin :


And Orochimaru himself stated that 10 years before P1 , he would never cause a fight between him and Sandaime because of the difference of level . So literally :
Prime Hiruzen>P1 Hiruzen-10 years>>Orochimaru with both arms + Edo Hokage>P1 Orochimaru .


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 6, 2015)

6th Gated Choji-Expanded Hiruzen should destroy Orochimaru with a single punch.


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## Kai (Nov 6, 2015)

Enma states Hiruzen 10 years ago could have killed Orochimaru.



You can argue about Orochimaru's power progression in 10 years, but this time gap, when discussed during their fight, reflects more on Hiruzen's strength than it does Orochimaru's. Meaning, Prime Hiruzen should be above any Orochimaru from the Konoha Invasion and prior.

Hiruzen prime being stronger Orochimaru is just as canon as Itachi being stronger than Orochimaru.

Locking this one.


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