# Zoro vs Sanji



## Phantom Thief (Nov 12, 2018)

Probably a bad idea, but what's the OPBD's opinion of this?


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## Gledania (Nov 12, 2018)

I have better.

Sanji with knifes. Can't hit with his feets 

Zoro with feets. Can't use hands.

No haki allowed.


Who would win ?


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## Phantom Thief (Nov 12, 2018)

Gledania said:


> I have better.
> 
> Sanji with knifes. Can't hit with his feets
> 
> ...



Don't twist my thread, Bepo


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## neonlight (Nov 12, 2018)

Current Zoro mid diffs.


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## Gledania (Nov 12, 2018)

Zoro mid to high diff.

Zoro vs Raid suit Sanji extrem diff could go either way


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## Geralt-Singh (Nov 12, 2018)

Zoro mid


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## TheWiggian (Nov 12, 2018)

Zoro wins, not going to state diff since it would cause a shitstorm


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 12, 2018)

Zoro wins handily unless Sanji shows more feats in Wano.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 12, 2018)

Zoro mid-diff


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## Quipchaque (Nov 12, 2018)

Zoro with the same amount of difficulty as against Kaku.


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## Canute87 (Nov 12, 2018)

when people admit sanji needs a whole power + varia + gravity + phazon suit to take on someone with pure skill you know it's bad.


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## o0Fujitora0o (Nov 12, 2018)

the gap between the trio has widen a lot more after time skip it seems.feat suggests Luffy >> Zoro >> Sanji.

So, mid diff seems about right.


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## Canute87 (Nov 12, 2018)

o0Fujitora0o said:


> the gap between the trio has widen a lot more after time skip it seems.feat suggests Luffy > Zoro >> Sanji.
> 
> So, mid diff seems about right.



fixed.


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 12, 2018)

Zoro extreme diff just like always


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 13, 2018)

Sanji breaks his bones if he hits Zoro’s haki

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gianfi (Nov 13, 2018)

Zoro high/extreme diff as always. People are overrating Zoro (as usual). Post-skip he thought only weaklings:
-that fish man during FI arc (fodder)
-Monet (even more fodder)
-Pica (this one was decently strong)
-Fujitora (strong)
-Carrot ( too brief to be considered a fight)
-Hawkins (this one is strong)

The only fights he had with strong guys either were too short and a stalemate (vs Hawkins, Zoro took 1 life, but he also got wounded), was outclassed (vs Fujitora, but still he is and admiral so nothing to be surprised about), completely humiliated (by Carrot... i’m joking i’m Joking calm down jeeez).

On the other hand Sanji fought:
-Fodder Fish Man
-Vergo
-Donflamingo
-Sheephead
-Various BM pirates( the fixer, Madara, Daifuku, BM, other guys)

Just like Zoro, he defeated the weakest guys with little trouble (Fodder Fish Man, Sheephead, “i’m gonna fix it” guy, Madara), stalemated with strong guys (Daifuku, Vergo) and was plain overwhelmed by the Top dogs of the arc ( Donflamingo, or BM). Overall, his performance against BM, when he blocked one of her attacks, or him dodging Kata’s bean, or speedbltizing Oven, are no different than Zoro holding his own against Fuji for 30 seconds.

Even my grandma would look amazing fighting the likes of Monet

Reactions: Like 4


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## Gledania (Nov 13, 2018)

Gianfi said:


> Even my grandma would look amazing fighting the likes of Monet










> Post-skip he thought only weaklings:




Sad but true.
 fuck the luffy show.


Actually you can't proves what diff he needs since they both fighted fodders  


Zoro still mid/high diff ,unless Sanji use the raid suit and THEN he will = zoro, Wano will prove me right and you'll see 

I'm not making a bet tho I already made 2 with high risk .... you're going to make me put a carrot ava I know you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Nov 13, 2018)

Law saved Sanji from Doflamingo. 
Fujitora saved Doflamingo from Zoro. 

I think the case is quite clear.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Bernkastel (Nov 13, 2018)

Mid diff sounds good with their current feats...Sanji seriously needs upgrades if he want to hang with Zoro..

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 13, 2018)

lol @ mid diff

The duo that the author himself constantly reminds us are in a rivalry. Zoro sliced in half a giant mountainous golem, Sanji blitzed Oven. Sanji almost got his leg broken by Vergo, Zoro got ambushed by the yeti brothers and outmaneuvered by fucking Carrot.

Zoro has not beaten anyone that we know for sure would high diff Sanji, and until then, there is no way in hell it's a mid diff fight.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Furinji Saiga (Nov 13, 2018)

Bernkastel said:


> Mid diff sounds good with their current feats...Sanji seriously needs upgrades if he want to hang with Zoro..



Im going with this.


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## GilDLax (Nov 14, 2018)

Zolo has better DC of course. But that's just a matter of style. An accurate bullet through the worst point of the head kills the same as being cut in half. Do we know for sure Sanji's best kick is easier to tank or less lethal than Zolo's Daisekai?

Sanji has air walk and greater mobility+speed. He can dodge 1080 pound canon and stuffs. Zolo isn't Kin'emon so he can't cut Sanji's flame, for now.

I think people are taken in by Zolo's badassery. But LOOK is LOOK. We need actual substances. It's true Sanji was used to hype other characters but those other characters are way stronger than the ones Zolo fought except for Fuji who didn't try anw.

If I tell you A>>>5 and B<<<100 can you tell me which number is bigger? A or B? You can't. There's not enough information.

How do you know Zolo wouldn't be Parasite by DD? Or Daifuku's genie wouldn't send him flying? Zolo got pressed for a bit vs Hawkin's straw doll. What if Daifuku's genie is way stronger than that?

Sanji is also not confirmed to have gone all-out. Oda plot-shits on him before he could...no new martial art like Okama Kenpo of Iva yet, no spinning himself to maybe make even hotter flame etc. if you can imagine Zolo's techniques that aren't shown yet, I can do the same for Sanji.

All in all, sure, I would put money on Zolo but until this hypothetical all-out Zolo proves he actually exists and Sanji proves he is not any better than what he's shown, it's not anything lower than high-diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Nov 14, 2018)

Zoro sling blitzes. Sanji doesn't stand a chance.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Nov 14, 2018)

Poor Naruto fell down to mid diff for the Grandmaster.


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## gold ace (Nov 14, 2018)

Sanji currently high diffs. 

Zoro doesn’t have much over sanji atm besides dc and lethality, I just dont see how he can win.


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## Zoro20 (Nov 19, 2018)

commen sense wise 
sanji should push zoro to high diff


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## Esano (Nov 19, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Law saved Sanji from Doflamingo.
> Fujitora saved Doflamingo from Zoro.
> 
> I think the case is quite clear.


No.


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## Magentabeard (Nov 20, 2018)

Zoro mid diff, even back in thriller bark when we saw the massive difference between their thresholds it became clear that Zoro is a level above Sanji when pushed to the limit.


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## gold ace (Nov 22, 2018)

Lol at all the Zoro stans getting mad and rating my post because I spit facts


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## Dark (Nov 22, 2018)

I remember back in 2013 when if you said anything but Zoro wins extreme difficulty it was blasphemy


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 23, 2018)

Zoro, Law and Mihawk wank all boils down to people preferring the stoic, badass, "nothing personnel kido" character. That shouldn't translate to actual versus battles.

If Zoro beats a stronger character with the same amount of difficulty as Sanji beating a significantly weaker character in Wano, then we'd have a clear consensus. Hell, even if Zoro has a better performance than Sanji against the same character that would prove something.

As it stands now, Zoro's only truly impressive feat is cutting the Pica golem and then cutting through Pica's armament. But Pica is also within Sanji's realm of possibility defeating, so how does that mean that Zoro could mid diff Sanji? Stop the wank.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Extravlad (Nov 23, 2018)

Zoro low diffs as it stands.



Dark said:


> I remember back in 2013 when if you said anything but Zoro wins extreme difficulty it was blasphemy


In 2013 I was making Sanji vs Punk Hazard's door threads


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## Sweetcor (Nov 23, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> Zoro, Law and Mihawk wank all boils down to people preferring the stoic, badass, "nothing personnel kido" character. That shouldn't translate to actual versus battles.
> 
> If Zoro beats a stronger character with the same amount of difficulty as Sanji beating a significantly weaker character in Wano, then we'd have a clear consensus. Hell, even if Zoro has a better performance than Sanji against the same character that would prove something.
> 
> As it stands now, Zoro's only truly impressive feat is cutting the Pica golem and then cutting through Pica's armament. But Pica is also within Sanji's realm of possibility defeating, so how does that mean that Zoro could mid diff Sanji? Stop the wank.


Sanji wouldnt be able to do a thing against Golem Pica


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## goombanthime (Nov 23, 2018)

It's kind of sad that two main characters are still impossible to scale post time skip after 7 years.
Edit: It's more that the power scaling in OP isn't as direct as other shonen, mainly due to how big the world is. While basically every body in Naruto or bleach fought the same couple of people, things aren't as clean cut for OP. You can't say who is stronger between pre time skip supernova, doflamingo family or steroids fishman.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 23, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> Zoro, Law and Mihawk wank all boils down to people preferring the stoic, badass, "nothing personnel kido" character. That shouldn't translate to actual versus battles.
> 
> If Zoro beats a stronger character with the same amount of difficulty as Sanji beating a significantly weaker character in Wano, then we'd have a clear consensus. Hell, even if Zoro has a better performance than Sanji against the same character that would prove something.
> 
> As it stands now, Zoro's only truly impressive feat is cutting the Pica golem and then cutting through Pica's armament. But Pica is also within Sanji's realm of possibility defeating, so how does that mean that Zoro could mid diff Sanji? Stop the wank.



Zoro was proven >>stronger then Sanji the moment Oda gave him a fucking Raid suit. 

Unless you think Raid Suit Sanji can beat Zoro there is no way Zoro doesnt beat the shit out of sanji without it.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 23, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoro was proven >>stronger then Sanji the moment Oda gave him a fucking Raid suit.
> 
> Unless you think Raid Suit Sanji can beat Zoro there is no way Zoro doesnt beat the shit out of sanji without it.



By that logic, I guess it was proven Sanji was stronger pre-ts when Zoro kept upgrading his swords?

Who's to say that's not going to happen in Wano as well? It's about as likely as Sanji using his raid suit.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 23, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> By that logic, I guess it was proven Sanji was stronger pre-ts when Zoro kept upgrading his swords?
> 
> Who's to say that's not going to happen in Wano as well? It's about as likely as Sanji using his raid suit.



Comparing a slight attack power upgrade(which is all a new sword gives) to a Raid suit 

Even if they were comparable(which they arent) Zoros feats before he got new swords in Alabasta, and again in Thriller Bark were better then Sanjis already.

So again unless you think Sanji can beat Zoro right now if he puts on the raid suit. Current Wano Zoro>>Wano base Sanji


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 23, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Comparing a slight attack power upgrade(which is all a new sword gives) to a Raid suit
> 
> Even if they were comparable(which they arent) Zoros feats before he got new swords in Alabasta, and again in Thriller Bark were better then Sanjis already.
> 
> So again unless you think Sanji can beat Zoro right now if he puts on the raid suit. Current Wano Zoro>>Wano base Sanji



Yes, I'm sure you can quantify the upgrade of a raid suit we haven't even seen in action. Meanwhile we've seen the difference blade quality makes when one of Zoro's swords survived Mihawk's slash and the other two didn't.

Again, I'm not arguing that Zoro has always had slight the edge over Sanji, I'm arguing against the wankers that are saying Zoro could mid diff Sanji.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 23, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> Yes, I'm sure you can quantify the upgrade of a raid suit we haven't even seen in action. Meanwhile we've seen the difference blade quality makes when one of Zoro's swords survived Mihawk's slash and the other two didn't.



We saw the raid suits in action at whole Cake island. No reason to think Sanji wont get a similar upgrade to his abilitys.

Comparing fodder swords to grade swords. Zoro already has three grade swords, upgrading his cursed blade to a slightly better cursed blade wont be a major improvement. Like what good would that do vs sanji anyway? Getting a attack power boost isnt going to help him beat sanji. Ashura or three thousand worlds can hurt sanji just fine. 



> Again, I'm not arguing that Zoro has always had slight the edge over Sanji, I'm arguing against the wankers that are saying Zoro could mid diff Sanji.



Blame oda.

Zoro has been portrayed as a god.

Sanji has been portrayed as trash.

So why should i give Sanji bonus points for getting shit on the entire time skip? How many years does Oda need to show zoro in a positive light. Is 8 years not good enough?


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 23, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> We saw the raid suits in action at whole Cake island. No reason to think Sanji wont get a similar upgrade to his abilitys.
> 
> Comparing fodder swords to grade swords. Zoro already has three grade swords, upgrading his cursed blade to a slightly better cursed blade wont be a major improvement. Like what good would that do vs sanji anyway? Getting a attack power boost isnt going to help him beat sanji. Ashura or three thousand worlds can hurt sanji just fine.


The raid suits give abilities to the vinsmokes, Sanji already has DJ. We barely have a benchmark for the vinsmokes without their raid suits.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Blame oda.
> 
> Zoro has been portrayed as a god.
> 
> ...


How has Zoro been portrayed as a god? His only real worthwhile feat is slashing the Pica golem. Oven is comparable to Pica and he got completely blitzed by WCI Sanji.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 23, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> The raid suits give abilities to the vinsmokes, Sanji already has DJ. We barely have a benchmark for the vinsmokes without their raid suits.



Not sure why sanji having DJ would stop a raid suit from giving him more abilitys.

We know it gives Niji access to extreme speed. Ichiji light beams capable of piercing through oven, yonji powerful gripping strength. We don't need to know exact details thats for oda to decide what it gives sanji but its going to be a lot more then a slight attack power upgrade. Which is all a new sword would give zoro.



> How has Zoro been portrayed as a god? His only real worthwhile feat is slashing the Pica golem. Oven is comparable to Pica and he got completely blitzed by WCI Sanji



Fishman Island.

Zoro one shots the main villain and one shots the only other opponent besides hodi who gets a superupgrade like hodi does.

Sanji fights Wadatsumi along with Jinbei.

Punk hazord.

Zoro bitches out monet with his blood lust soon after she makes luffy look like a joke. He along with luffy kill the punk hazord dragon.

Sanji gets his legbone cracked by Vergo.

Dressrosa.

Zoro pushes back a admiral with a air slash. Looking perfectly fine vs him, and cuts up a giant mountain like butter.

Sanji gets punked by Doflamingo.

Everytime Zoro and Sanji are in a arc together Zoro looks better while sanji is put to the way side. Hell sanji was getting trolled in his own arc, his family had to save his ass in the end.
.
The portryal is very clear. Neither Zoro or Sanji have had a real fight but its crystal clear that Zoro has better portryal then sanji and its not a tiny bit like pretimeskip. Re-read one piece sanji was never treated like this before the timeskip and zoro has never consistently looked this good from doing jack shit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 24, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Fishman Island.
> 
> Zoro one shots the main villain and one shots the only other opponent besides hodi who gets a superupgrade like hodi does.
> 
> ...



Oh wishful interpretations. We're going to pretend that Monet was ever an actual threat to Luffy 

Zoro oneshots one the weakest incarnations of Hody, but of course you only mention the roids against the octopus swordsman to help your argument. Wadatsumi doesn't land a single attack and gets destroyed by Jimbei and Sanji, and he was still one of the strongest members of that shit tier crew.

DD multiple times praised Sanji's strength and ended up using parasite, from which neither Zoro could escape from.

Zoro sends a flying slash towards Fujitora, then G2/G3 Luffy proceeds to have a much better showing against the admiral towards the end of the arc.

If i'm stooping to your level of discourse, I might as well bring up Zoro getting punked by yeti brothers, carrot etc etc

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dark (Nov 24, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> If i'm stooping to your level of discourse, I might as well bring up Zoro getting punked by yeti brothers, carrot etc etc



Yet you are comparing Zoro upgrading his swords to Sanji using the raid suit


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 24, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> Oh wishful interpretations. We're going to pretend that Monet was ever an actual threat to Luffy
> 
> Zoro oneshots one the weakest incarnations of Hody, but of course you only mention the roids against the octopus swordsman to help your argument. Wadatsumi doesn't land a single attack and gets destroyed by Jimbei and Sanji, and he was still one of the strongest members of that shit tier crew.
> 
> ...



Like it or not monet successfully stalled luffy and almost made luffy faint. He literally got lucky otherwise he would of lost to monet thats a fact. Monets true powerlevel is irrelevant to the portryal that oda set up.

Its not about how strong hodi or his subordinates are. Its the fact oda had Zoro ONE SHOT THE MAIN VILLIAN, and then be the only strawhat to fight a superversion same as luffy did. Thats a direct correlation from oda to luffy and zoro. What did he give sanji? A giant fish who he had jinbei help him with.

Thats clear cut portryal cant get any more obvious. Thats not how you portryal two fighters who are of very close strength.

Praised his strength while he blocked his attacks with his feather coat 

His feats vs fuji thats hype for luffy(that people use all the time to support him actually) not hype for sanji.

If the best you can come up with is Zoro getting gased while he argued with Sanji and carrot dodging one attack from him be my guest. For every negative thing you can find for zoro i promise i can find 3 more positive things to support him and 2 negative things that oda has done to sanji


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## Dark (Nov 24, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> For every negative thing you can find for zoro i promise i can find 3 more positive things to support him and 2 negative things that oda has done to sanji


It's not about how badly Oda portrayed Sanji post-timeskip, it's how Oda wants to portray Sanji. If he decides that there is a big gap between Zoro and Sanji after the timeskip, no amount of headcanon is gonna make that less true.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 24, 2018)

Dark said:


> It's not about how badly Oda portrayed Sanji post-timeskip, it's how Oda wants to portray Sanji. If he decides that there is a big gap between Zoro and Sanji after the timeskip, no amount of headcanon is gonna make that less true.



Im not exactly sure what your getting it. 

How does Sanji and Zoros portryal not reflect the gap between the two? Of course portryal is a subjective thing but its still the author projecting his intent in the manga.


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## Dark (Nov 24, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Im not exactly sure what your getting it.
> 
> How does Sanji and Zoros portryal not reflect the gap between the two? Of course portryal is a subjective thing but its still the author projecting his intent in the manga.


I am in agreement with what you are saying. It has been clear that there is a significant gap between Zoro and Sanji post-timeskip and looks like it's increasing to a no return point. What I was saying earlier is we shouldn't be upset about how Oda decided to go with Sanji and rationalize portrayal just to maintain our tier lists.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 24, 2018)

Dark said:


> I am in agreement with what you are saying. It has been clear that there is a significant gap between Zoro and Sanji post-timeskip and looks like it's increasing to a no return point. What I was saying earlier is we shouldn't be upset about how Oda decided to go with Sanji and rationalize portrayal just to maintain our tier lists.



Ah i understand and that makes sense. 

Like i get it. For most of the manga Zoro and Sanji have been super close in strength some would argue equal at times. 

But things changed. Zoro and Sanji have not been shown as super close since EL. New mangas have started and ended since EL began and i can only afford so much to sanji. 

Of course its odas manga. He can make Raid suit sanji stronger then Zoro if he wants. So we still have to wait and see. Wano should i pray to god finally give zoro and sanji the fights they deserve and from that we can acurately compare the two.

Reactions: Like 2


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## gold ace (Nov 25, 2018)

Dark said:


> I remember back in 2013 when if you said anything but Zoro wins extreme difficulty it was blasphemy



It was the same in 2015. 3 years later, Zoro gets no new feats, sanji gets a bunch. All of a sudden Zoro low-mid diffs???

And people call me crazy for saying sanji wins??? They were equal back then, sanji shows no stuff, and he’s not stronger now??


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## HaxHax (Nov 25, 2018)

No raid suit sanji > no swords zoro



This arc is gonna be a tough pill to swallow for all the people who've been imagining huge power surges and changes in crew dynamics out of nothing

Leave them looking like Zoro after an encounter with the cool bros



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> But things changed. Zoro and Sanji have not been shown as super close since EL.



Honestly sometimes I can't tell if you believe your own bs

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 25, 2018)

HaxHax said:


> No raid suit sanji > no swords zoro



Is this suppose to be outside the norm? I don't understand the use of the emoji. 

Sanji mid diffs Zoro without his swords. Only reason its not low diff is cause Zoro is a endurance monster. 



> This arc is gonna be a tough pill to swallow for all the people who've been imagining huge power surges and changes in crew dynamics out of nothing



I think the power structure will remain roughly the same as it has always been after wano is over. 

Despite the luffy wankers sucking his dick Zoro will be close to luffys strength like he has always been. 

And with the addition of the Raid Suit Sanji will stop being trash and go right back up to standing next to Zoro in power in the crew. With the new addition jinbei being a tad bit behind. 



> Honestly sometimes I can't tell if you believe your own bs



I believe it seeing as how i said it and nothing ive said is wrong. 

Last time oda had Zoro and Sanji stand as neigh equals was in EL. When he had them fight Kaka/Jyabura. Since then Zoro and sanji havent had any opponents in the same arc that werent fodder or where one of them had a decent opponent and the other had a fodder opponent. 

Wano will be the first time since EL where they will go all out and have comparable opponents we can go off of. King/Queen(assuming they fight them).


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## HaxHax (Nov 25, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Last time oda had Zoro and Sanji stand as neigh equals was in EL. When he had them fight Kaka/Jyabura. Since then Zoro and sanji havent had any opponents in the same arc that werent fodder or where one of them had a decent opponent and the other had a fodder opponent.
> 
> Wano will be the first time since EL where they will go all out and have comparable opponents we can go off of. King/Queen(assuming they fight them).



So you choose, in the absence of numerical evidence, to imagine that Zoro has gotten far stronger, even though there is no indication of this either?

In EL we see Sanji blocking a named attack from Oars with a named attack, similarly to Zoro redirecting an unnamed attack with an unnamed attack using his new sword. Then two people get back up at the end of it all.

Then Sanji and Zoro take out a pacifista simultaneously juxtaposed with Luffy taking one out alone

Then Sanji and Zoro take out an octopus tentacle each juxtaposed with Luffy taking out the entire thing

Then Sanji and Zoro simultaneously block one of Hody's henchmen each as Luffy walks towards Hody

Not to mention that their third and current bounties are separated by little more than 3%. (zoro awarded his in the arc absent of sanji, sanji awarded his in the arc absent of zoro)

The comparisons between Sanji and Zoro are littered all over the story, so why should I expect the dynamic to have changed simply because they haven't had full-fledged fights for a long time? (apart from pica I guess?)


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## neonlight (Nov 25, 2018)

New crew dynamic will be Luffy Zoro Jimbei Sanji. EoS Sanji need not be top YC level. Otherwise, SHs alone can take out 3 admirals, which is nothing but a disgrace to WG.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 25, 2018)

HaxHax said:


> So you choose, in the absence of numerical evidence, to imagine that Zoro has gotten far stronger, even though there is no indication of this either?



If by imagine you mean go off Zoros plain as day to even Sanji fans superior portrayal.

Feats mean little until both sides have feats. Sanji and Zoro dont have enough feats to compare directly to each other. At least in my books anyway. To which my only option is to go off hype and portrayal not feats from before the time skip.



> In EL we see Sanji blocking a named attack from Oars with a named attack, similarly to Zoro redirecting an unnamed attack with an unnamed attack using his new sword. Then two people get back up at the end of it all.



Nice feats for both of them buts thats not indicitive of them being equals anymore then sanji and luffy both blocking big moms attack together is.



> Then Sanji and Zoro take out a pacifista simultaneously juxtaposed with Luffy taking one out alone



Sanji and Zoro have a rivalry thats not going to change regardless of the gap between them. Zoro and Sanji are luffys main fighters aka the M3 and that was oda showing that. All three of the attacks that used would one shot a PX. That doesnt let us know how far they are from each other or luffy for that matter.



> Then Sanji and Zoro take out an octopus tentacle each juxtaposed with Luffy taking out the entire thing



Fighting a fodder kraken together equates neigh equal fighting power how?




> Then Sanji and Zoro simultaneously block one of Hody's henchmen each as Luffy walks towards Hody



And then sanji goes on to fight wadatsumi with jinbei, while Zoro fights a superdrugged Hyouza.

Oda was showing off the M3 grouping nothing more.




> Not to mention that their third and current bounties are separated by little more than 3%. (zoro awarded his in the arc absent of sanji, sanji awarded his in the arc absent of zoro)



Bountys are irrelevant.



> The comparisons between Sanji and Zoro are littered all over the story, so why should I expect the dynamic to have changed simply because they haven't had full-fledged fights for a long time? (apart from pica I guess?)



Never said Sanji and Zoro were no longer rivals. The M3 is still very much intact until jinbei joins.

Luffy and Zoro comparions are also littered all over the story(i can list them if you want). Doesn't make them equals either.

Regardless at the end of the day Zoros portrayal has been way better then Sanjis and for good reason. Zoro is simply stronger then Sanji, oda made that painfully clear when he gave Sanji a fucking Raid suit to power his ass up. Despite what vivo might suggest Zoro possibly getting a new sword is not comparable to a raid suit in the slightest. Espicailly not in a comparison vs Sanji as getting a shiny new sword is not going to help him beat sanji.

Its not a strange thing to see luffy wankers say he mid or low diffs Zoro. Hell ive seen people say luffy stomps zoro. God forbide Zoro mid diffs sanji though despite sanjis horrendous portryal over the last 8 years espicailly in comparison to Zoros. .

Not saying you are a luffy wanker i just find it funny

Edit. This conversation is dumb anyway. Everyone is getting upgrdes this arc. For the  first time since the time skip all three of the monster trio will get real fights in the same arc. So we shall see what that is. I expect Luffy High diffs Zoro and Zoro high diffs Sanji. We shall see thougj


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## convict (Nov 25, 2018)

Currently Zoro beats him without much trouble based on portrayal. After the raid suit or whatever powerup Sanji gets it might go back to high difficulty, unless Zoro gets a major upgrade too in which case their strength won't ever be as close as it was preskip.


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## nmwn93 (Nov 25, 2018)

Idc what you ppl think but nothing suggests to me that samjis getting mid diffed by mosshead. Not at all they've always been paralleled. Extreme diff either way.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Muah (Nov 25, 2018)

A mute fight Sanji wins low diff
three swords vs Sanji could go either way extreme diff
Raid suit Sanji >Zoro

Reactions: Like 1


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## neonlight (Nov 25, 2018)

Muah said:


> A mute fight Sanji wins low diff
> three swords vs Sanji could go either way extreme diff
> Raid suit Sanji >Zoro


I see. Some people are still living in their own illusionary world.


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## gold ace (Nov 26, 2018)

What feats does Zoro have over sanji besides dc/ap/CoA?


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## Gianfi (Dec 4, 2018)

gold ace said:


> What feats does Zoro have over sanji besides dc/ap/CoA?


Zoro has more fans and wankers


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## xmysticgohanx (Dec 4, 2018)

gold ace said:


> What feats does Zoro have over sanji besides dc/ap/CoA?


 Zoro is actually portrayed to be > the FBH users. Sanji on the other hand has failed twice.

2 sword Zoro also had positive portrayal vs Hawkins, another supernova


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## Gledania (Dec 4, 2018)

Gianfi said:


> Zoro has more fans and wankers



Zoro is cooler

Reactions: Like 3


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## Phantom Thief (Dec 4, 2018)

Raid Suit Sanji could likely high diff Zoro as it currently stands, but the point in the arc that he chooses to use it is important. He won't pull that out until he's forced to use it to protect something of his at which point Zoro should likely be getting his own power-ups to combat his new opponent, thus widening the gap once again.

Oda isn't going to treat Sanji so poorly that his Wano self with a power-up would still lose to, what is essentially, Dressrosa Zoro. People like to downplay what Sanji has done more than he deserves for the memes. He's been less than expected post-skip, but he's still accomplished things like fighting Vergo with an injured body and actually looking decent. I know Vergo wasn't using his full moveset, but by the time the gas started to spread Vergo was going to begin using Hardened punches and I have no doubt a healthy Sanji could dodge those given how telegraphed they were and the level of CoO he's shown. Then we have him looking fairly decent against the Veterans of Big Mom's crew with Oda showing him blitzing Oven and stopping Daifuku's giant genie from destroying the Sunny seeming to imply a level of parity with them. The only more impressive thing Zoro has really done is defeat Pica and fight well against Hawkins, but these guy aren't much stronger than the guy's Sanji has fought to begin with. In fact, most would even argue Vergo is stronger than Pica.

So really, these notions that Sanji could barely push Zoro to mid-diff or that he'd still lose to current Zoro with a power-up is kind of silly.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gledania (Dec 4, 2018)

Phantom Thief said:


> So really, these notions that Sanji could barely push Zoro to mid-diff or that he'd still lose to current Zoro with a power-up is kind of silly.



Yup. I think Zoro would need above mid diff to face current Sanji. Like high diff tbh.

With the raid suit they will be equal.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Phantom Thief (Dec 4, 2018)

Gledania said:


> Yup. I think Zoro would need above mid diff to face current Sanji. Like high diff tbh.
> 
> With the raid suit they will be equal.



Yep, I do still think that a gap has opened up, but it isn't quite as large as people make it out to be. At worst, I think Sanji could just barely push Zoro to high-diff.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 5, 2018)

Zoro haven't even shown much to begin with since the TS.

I find it perplexing that Sanji is just going to upgrade to the level Zoro was during Dressrosa "if" he uses the raid suit and Zoro despite not even going all out yet will just sit there not growing in strenght at all, so Sanji can catch up to him again in peace.

Not bursting bubbles here, but there is no way he will just sit there, waiting for his "gag rival".


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## Intus Legere (Dec 5, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoro was proven >>stronger then Sanji the moment Oda gave him a fucking Raid suit.
> 
> Unless you think Raid Suit Sanji can beat Zoro there is no way Zoro doesnt beat the shit out of sanji without it.






Vivo Diez said:


> By that logic, I guess it was proven Sanji was stronger pre-ts when Zoro kept upgrading his swords?



I disagree, it isn't the same logic at all. What he was saying is:

(1) Zoro with the swords beats Sanji. (Therefore he MIGHT be still stronger than him without the swords.)

Which isn't quite the same as

(2) Sanji with the Raid Suit still doesn't beat Zoro. (therefore he cannot possibly be stronger than Zoro without the Raid Suit.)


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## Vivo Diez (Dec 5, 2018)

Intus Legere said:


> I disagree, it isn't the same logic at all. What he was saying is:
> 
> (1) Zoro with the swords beats Sanji. (Therefore he MIGHT be still stronger than him without the swords.)



That interpretation is that much worse, for both him and you.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 5, 2018)

Intus Legere said:


> I disagree, it isn't the same logic at all. What he was saying is:
> 
> (1) Zoro with the swords beats Sanji. (Therefore he MIGHT be still stronger than him without the swords.)
> 
> ...



Not exactly the main difference here is that Zoro was portrayed stronger then Sanji before he got any sword upgrades. 

And on that note i doubt Raid Suit Sanji can beat Zoro(although that has yet to be shown of course). If raid suit Sanji cant beat Zoro then base sanji is fucked. 

I also expect zoro to grow more then sanji this arc for obvious reasons. So perhaps current Raid Suit Sanji>Zoro but at the end of the arc they are equal or slight edge to Zoro.


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## T.D.A (Dec 5, 2018)

One is listed as the Warrior of the Straw Hat Pirates while the other is listed as the Crew Chef.


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## StarlightAshley (Dec 5, 2018)

I don't understand. Where does the idea of Sanji being stronger than Zoro come from? What in the series has ever implied or sparked this debate to begin with? Everything ive seen in the series always implies Zoro is the number 2 and Sanji is the number 3?? Zoro always fights stronger opponents, has a higher bounty, wins more fights..Is their something I'm forgetting that hints sanji was ever above Zoro?


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## HaxHax (Dec 5, 2018)

StarlightAshley said:


> has a higher bounty



heh


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## Quipchaque (Dec 5, 2018)

StarlightAshley said:


> I don't understand. Where does the idea of Sanji being stronger than Zoro come from? What in the series has ever implied or sparked this debate to begin with? Everything ive seen in the series always implies Zoro is the number 2 and Sanji is the number 3?? Zoro always fights stronger opponents, has a higher bounty, wins more fights..Is their something I'm forgetting that hints sanji was ever above Zoro?



Don't listen. No sane person would ever believe that. It is just lunatic fans like Gold Ace who love Sanji more than their own family who rank Sanji like that.


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## Etherborn (Dec 5, 2018)

Zoro mid diffs. Sanji has better speed and Observation Haki, but Zoro's strength, durability, endurance, destructive capacity, and Armaments Haki are all far superior to Sanji's. You don't take a select few stats and expect them to outweigh an abundance of others.

Yes Sanji fought Vergo who had far better feats than Pica if you don't count the golem, but the difference is that he _didn't beat his opponent, _while Zoro did.

As of now I cannot see Sanji tanking a single Daisen/Sanzen Sekai. That's not to say he'll get one shot, because unlike Pica he's actually good at dodging and most likely won't rush in head first expecting to withstand it like an idiot. In a fight between Zoro and Sanji, I'd go as far as to say that Sanji would probably be landing more hits due to being faster and having better precog, but Zoro can actually tank those hits, unlike Sanji who will be screwed after Zoro lands one or two.

Reactions: Like 3


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## StarlightAshley (Dec 5, 2018)

Also is Sanji going to be clashing aganist swords with his legs? Won't they get all sliced up??


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 5, 2018)

StarlightAshley said:


> Also is Sanji going to be clashing aganist swords with his legs? Won't they get all sliced up??



Haki

Or just dodge


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## StarlightAshley (Dec 5, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Haki
> 
> Or just dodge


I guess he could use haki on his legs! Although Zoros haki is stronger so I don't know if that would work...
also I don't think Sanji could dodge 3 swords simultaneously!


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## Geralt-Singh (Dec 6, 2018)

Zoro one shots

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aaron Tōshiro (Dec 6, 2018)

Base Sanji:Zoro mid diff
RS Sanji:Zoro high diff


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## Atem. (Dec 8, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoro was proven >>stronger then Sanji the moment Oda gave him a fucking Raid suit.
> 
> Unless you think Raid Suit Sanji can beat Zoro there is no way Zoro doesnt beat the shit out of sanji without it.



Zoro still has Ashura so i don't get your post.

Ashura-Zoro > RS-Sanji > Zoro > Sanji

Always high diff.

_____

A new sword doesn't only increases Zoro's AP but also increases his defense and lethality.


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## Atem. (Dec 8, 2018)

StarlightAshley said:


> I guess he could use haki on his legs! Although Zoros haki is stronger so I don't know if that would work...
> also I don't think Sanji could dodge 3 swords simultaneously!



Sanji could dodge Vergo from point blank-range and this after he surprisingly got his shin fractured by Vergo.

I agree Zoro's CoA is significantly better than Sanji's. CoO goes to Sanji though.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 8, 2018)

Atem said:


> Zoro still has Ashura so i don't get your post.
> 
> Ashura-Zoro > RS-Sanji > Zoro > Sanji
> 
> ...



What does Ashura have to do with anything?

Why are you comparing it to Sanji getting a raid suit? Zoros had Ashura since before the timeskip its not a new powerup.


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## Atem. (Dec 8, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What does Ashura have to do with anything?
> 
> Why are you comparing it to Sanji getting a raid suit? Zoros had Ashura since before the timeskip its not a new powerup.



You said Zoro *>>* Sanji was proven the moment Sanji got the RS but this makes no sense.

What has Sanji's upgrade to do with the power gap between Zoro and Sanji?

Even if Sanji has the RS, Zoro still has his Ashura so it doesn't mean "Since there's no way RS-Sanji is currently stronger than Zoro, it means that current Zoro beats the shit out of normal Sanji and beats RS-Sanji with a normal difficulty"

PreTS: Ashura > DJ > Zoro > Sanji
PostTS: Ashura > RS > Zoro > Sanji

Zoro upgraded every single of his preTS moves and it will be the same case for Ashura.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 9, 2018)

Atem said:


> You said Zoro *>>* Sanji was proven the moment Sanji got the RS but this makes no sense.
> 
> What has Sanji's upgrade to do with the power gap between Zoro and Sanji?



For most of one piece Zoro and Sanji have always been close to each other in strength.

So If one gets a powerup and the other doesnt then that changes the gap, but you wont find many people who think Sanji can beat Zoro even with the raid suit.  Thats mainly because Zoro has looked better then Sanji since the timeskip.



> Even if Sanji has the RS, Zoro still has his Ashura so it doesn't mean



Why are you mentioning Ashura? What does one of zoros attacks have to do with sanji getting a new powerup? It goes without saying that all of zoros moves are factored in when i make a statement that Zoro is stronger then X.



> "Since there's no way RS-Sanji is currently stronger than Zoro


,

Its possible i just doubt it though.



> it means that current Zoro beats the shit out of normal Sanji and beats RS-Sanji with a normal difficulty"



Thats what i think the current case is yes.



> PreTS: Ashura > DJ > Zoro > Sanji
> PostTS: Ashura > RS > Zoro > Sanji



Not sure why you are bringing up Ashura likes its some massive powerup but whatever. As long as we agree Zoro>Raid Suit sanji i dont care.



> Zoro upgraded every single of his preTS moves and it will be the same case for Ashura.



I would assume so. Probably has something better then ashura though i would imagine.


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## StarlightAshley (Dec 9, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> For most of one piece Zoro and Sanji have always been close to each other in strength.
> 
> So If one gets a powerup and the other doesnt then that changes the gap, but you wont find many people who think Sanji can beat Zoro even with the raid suit.  Thats mainly because Zoro has looked better then Sanji since the timeskip.
> 
> ...


 Only since the timeskip? Do you know the point where I decided that Zoro was stronger than Sanji? In the first arc Sanji was introduced where he LOST to Gin. Zoro would have definatly won that fight. and I thought "Oh I guess this character isnt as strong as zoro and luffy"

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 9, 2018)

StarlightAshley said:


> Only since the timeskip? Do you know the point where I decided that Zoro was stronger than Sanji? In the first arc Sanji was introduced where he LOST to Gin. Zoro would have definatly won that fight. and I thought "Oh I guess this character isnt as strong as zoro and luffy"



Before the timeskip you could for sure make arguements that Sanji was Equal or neigh Equal to Zoro. After the timeskip you just look silly if you do. 

Sanji only lost to Gin because he was hurt from pearl. 

Anyway i agree Zoro>Sanji(preskip as well). Its just increased since the timeskip


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## StarlightAshley (Dec 9, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Before the timeskip you could for sure make arguements that Sanji was Equal or neigh Equal to Zoro. After the timeskip you just look silly if you do.
> 
> Sanji only lost to Gin because he was hurt from pearl.
> 
> Anyway i agree Zoro>Sanji(preskip as well). Its just increased since the timeskip


Don't make excuses for Sanji being disadvantaged. Gin was in equally bad shape aswell so it was even. I can see no situation where Zoro would lose that fight even if he faught gin right after fightinng mihawk and getting that giant gash across his chest he still could beat Gin.


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## Atem. (Dec 9, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> For most of one piece Zoro and Sanji have always been close to each other in strength.
> 
> So If one gets a powerup and the other doesnt then that changes the gap, but you wont find many people who think Sanji can beat Zoro even with the raid suit.  Thats mainly because Zoro has looked better then Sanji since the timeskip.
> 
> ...



I really don't get it. Your logic is that Sanji can be never stronger than Zoro.

Why do you regard RS as a proper PU but not Ashura/or whatever Zoro's strongest technique is post time skip.

Do you also think Non-ashura-Zoro beats DJ Sanji? (PreTS)

Hypothetically, if Sanji would receive another PU now, according to your logic it would mean:



> Zoro > new PU+RS Sanji
> Zoro >> RS Sanji
> Zoro >>> Sanji



You disregard Sanji's strength with an eventual PU like the RS. It isn't set in stone he'll use it, you know? Him using it has the same possibility as Zoro pulling out PostTS-Ashura.

While I do beleibe that All-out-Zoro > All-out-Sanji, in any moment of the story.


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## Atem. (Dec 9, 2018)

StarlightAshley said:


> Don't make excuses for Sanji being disadvantaged. Gin was in equally bad shape aswell so it was even. I can see no situation where Zoro would lose that fight even if he faught gin right after fightinng mihawk and getting that giant gash across his chest he still could beat Gin.





1. Gin wasn't in equally bad shape. Read it again.
2. What you see and reality are 2 different things. I guess you also never expected for Zoro get overwhelmed by Carrot, him losing to the Yeti cool brothers, him not being able to free himself from chains in FI, him not being able to cut the birdcage, etc...


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## StarlightAshley (Dec 9, 2018)

Atem said:


> 1. Gin wasn't in equally bad shape. Read it again.
> 2. What you see and reality are 2 different things. I guess you also never expected for Zoro get overwhelmed by Carrot, him losing to the Yeti cool brothers, him not being able to free himself from chains in FI, him not being able to cut the birdcage, etc...


Overwhelmed!?!?!?!?!?!
Zoro and Carrot clashed for literally 1 seccond how did he get overwhelmed just because she ambushed him and he didnt expect her to be so agile or jump so high?
The Yeti cool brother didn't even fight them...
Fujitora was an admiral and even he couldnt break the birdcage so I wouldnt expect Zoro to be able to.

But Zoro has been in several fights throughout the series after having suffered ridiculous levels of damage. He beat all the fishman pirates while still having a huge open gash across his chest from Mihawk. If you put Zoro in the exact same situation and gave him broken ribs, he'd still win because it's what Zoro does. Especially to another weapons user, Zoro's swordskill undoubtley outclasses gins. I'm pretty sure Zoro could have beaten Don Kreig himself, let alone his henchman.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Atem. (Dec 9, 2018)

StarlightAshley said:


> Overwhelmed!?!?!?!?!?!
> Zoro and Carrot clashed for literally 1 seccond how did he get overwhelmed just because she ambushed him and he didnt expect her to be so agile or jump so high?
> The Yeti cool brother didn't even fight them...
> Fujitora was an admiral and even he couldnt break the birdcage so I wouldnt expect Zoro to be able to.
> ...



A:


StarlightAshley said:


> Don't make excuses for Sanji Zoro being disadvantaged.



-He was getting overwhelmed for that one second though.
-Yes, they didn't fight Zoro, they just beat him. Nobody said it was a proper fair and square duel.
-You are underestimating the wound done by Mihawk. According to Oda it took him 2 years to heal from that wound completely.
-I agree, Zoro could have beaten Don Krieg... but that's not the point.

Point is that mortally wounded Zoro beating Gin is just straight out baseless.

For the record, I am someone who trusts the DBs and therefore believes that Luffy and Zoro have 6/6 in strength while Sanji only has 5/6 in strength.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 9, 2018)

Atem said:


> I really don't get it. Your logic is that Sanji can be never stronger than Zoro.



Its possible i just doubt it. Zoros been stronger then sanji for what 20 years now? Don't see why that would change.

Best case i see is that Raid Suit Sanji>Current Zoro.

Zoro after his fights in wano+new sword=Raid Suit sanji.



> Why do you regard RS as a proper PU but not Ashura/or whatever Zoro's strongest technique is post time skip.



Ashura is not new thats my point. Ashura doesnt change the power dynamic between current Zoro and Sanji, because Zoro has been had Ashura its already factored in to any comparisons.

Sanji got a power up last arc the Raid Suit. Zoro has gotten no such powerup. Wano Zoro is just as strong as Dressrosa Zoro(minus the passive upgrades everyone gets each arc)



> Do you also think Non-ashura-Zoro beats DJ Sanji? (PreTS)



Yes i think he can.



> Hypothetically, if Sanji would receive another PU now, according to your logic it would mean:



That depends on his feats in relation to Zoros.




> You disregard Sanji's strength with an eventual PU like the RS. It isn't set in stone he'll use it,



Him using it this arc is not important. The fact he has it is whats important.





> While I do beleibe that All-out-Zoro > All-out-Sanji, in any moment of the story.



Then we agree Sanji without his raid suit gets hit ass beat by Zoro then?


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## Atem. (Dec 9, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Its possible i just doubt it. Zoros been stronger then sanji for what 20 years now? Don't see why that would change.



Yeah, Zoro > Sanji always, but not any version of Zoro is > Sanji.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Best case i see is that Raid Suit Sanji>Current Zoro.


 That's the normal case, imho.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoro after his fights in wano+new sword=Raid Suit sanji.


 Zoro and Sanji will never be equal, as long both went all out. Again, imo.

Zoro > Sanji.
Sanji =/> is only possible if you handicap Zoro.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ashura is not new thats my point. Ashura doesnt change the power dynamic between current Zoro and Sanji, because Zoro has been had Ashura its already factored in to any comparisons.


 Zoro upgraded every each of his preTS moves, considering this Ashura should also be upgraded.

-Shishi son son -> shi shi shi son son
-Tatsumaki (Twister) -> black rope dragon twister
-Sanzen Sekai -> ISDS
-Onigiri -> Rengoku Onigiri

So why should Ashura remain the same?



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sanji got a power up last arc the Raid Suit. Zoro has gotten no such powerup. Wano Zoro is just as strong as Dressrosa Zoro(minus the passive upgrades everyone gets each arc)


 Dressros Zoro is only as strong as his feats without Ashura. If he shows Ashura then he is > DR Zoro.

Those are 2 different versions of Zoro.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yes i think he can.


 Wholeheartedly disagree. DJ Sanji > Non-Ashura Zoro.

Ashura Zoro > DJ Sanji > Non-Ashura > Non-DJ (preTS, that is)



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> That depends on his feats in relation to Zoros.


 So why does it not depend on feats as well for the RS-Sanji?

To summarize: You said if Sanji gets another PU(my scenario) the gap depends on their feats but you also said that Zoro trashes Non-RS-Sanji since he only beats RS with a normal difficulty.

To judge the gap for my hypothetically PU you want to see feats first but for RS-Sanji you simply already judged that Zoro > RS-Sanji and Zoro>>Sanji



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Him using it this arc is not important. The fact he has it is whats important


 How come?



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Then we agree Sanji without his raid suit gets hit ass beat by Zoro then?


 If it is Ashura Zoro, yes, if it's DR-Zoro then, no.

I rank RS-Sanji ~ Queen and by all due respect I don't see the Zoro from DR with his showings in DR to beat Queen or the likes.

EDIT: Ahhhh my bad. I read "with" instead of "without". Yes we agree here. Sorry, my bad.


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## HaxHax (Dec 9, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Before the timeskip you could for sure make arguements that Sanji was Equal or neigh Equal to Zoro. After the timeskip you just look silly if you do.





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Its possible i just doubt it. Zoros been stronger then sanji for what 20 years now? *Don't see why that would change*.



Interesting how the historic power relationship between the two is only relevant insofar as it lives up to your personal desires


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 9, 2018)

Atem said:


> Yeah, Zoro > Sanji always, but not any version of Zoro is > Sanji.



I dont really like the term versions. Zoro and Sanji dont have Gears like Luffy does. I mean if you want to seperate Sanjis and Zoros stronger moves thays ok i guess but i think it gives the wrong impression. Sanji and Zoro have different attacks they dont have power up modes like Luffy or Goku. 

Anyway like i said before Raid Suit Sanji(CAN) be stronger then Zoro. Im saying i dont believe that he is. Its odas manga if he wants sanji stronger then he will be sorry if im making it seem like its some impossibility(i just very much doubt it). 



> That's the normal case, imho.



Its a possibility i wont deny that. 



> Zoro and Sanji will never be equal, as long both went all out. Again, imo.



Well thats for oda to decide im just being nice to sanji but yea i agree Zoro will always be stronger then Sanji(by the the end of a arc worst case). 



> Zoro upgraded every each of his preTS moves, considering this Ashura should also be upgraded.
> 
> -Shishi son son -> shi shi shi son son
> -Tatsumaki (Twister) -> black rope dragon twister
> ...



I agree 100 percent that Zoro has a upgraded Ashura. But by your own statement Zoro did all that during the timeskip. 



> Dressros Zoro is only as strong as his feats without Ashura


. 

Lmao what? Just because Zoro didnt use Ashura doesnt mean he is only that strong. Unless you can provide evidence that Zoro didint have a upgraded Ashura in dressrosa its the same shit. 

Punk hazord Luffy is just as strong as Dressrosa Luffy(Luffy didnt use G4 because he had no need to). 



> If he shows Ashura then he is > DR Zoro


.

No he isnt unless you can prove Zoro couldent use that same ashura in DR. 



> Those are 2 different versions of Zoro.



No they arent. 



> Wholeheartedly disagree. DJ Sanji > Non-Ashura Zoro.



I think Three Thousand Worlds or Lion song can take out Sanji just fine. 




> So why does it not depend on feats as well for the RS-Sanji?



It does as i said before RS Sanji can be stronger then Zoro i just doubt it(a lot). 



> To summarize: You said if Sanji gets another PU(my scenario) the gap depends on their feats but you also said that Zoro trashes Non-RS-Sanji since he only beats RS with a normal difficulty.
> 
> To judge the gap for my hypothetically PU you want to see feats first but for RS-Sanji you simply already judged that Zoro > RS-Sanji and Zoro>>Sanji



We havent seen RS Sanji yet so of course im making a assumption. For all we know Raid Suit sanji mid diffs Zoro. 

At the moment im giving Zoro the benfit of the doubt still that he is stronger then Raid Suit Sanji. That can of course easily change. 



> How come?



Because we know he has it. 

If luffy tells us he has a G5 after his fight with kaidou that lets us know the power dynamic between him and zoro has changed and luffy has gotten a new powerup and zoro hasent. We dont need to know exactly what G5 does or for even Luffy to use it this arc. Although it should go without saying that a G5 would be quite powerful. 

Same with the Raid suit we know its strong and Sanji has access to it. 



> If it is Ashura Zoro, yes, if it's DR-Zoro then, no.



Both zoros can use ashura until suggested otherwise.



> I rank RS-Sanji ~ Queen and by all due respect I don't see the Zoro from DR with his showings in DR to beat Queen or the likes.



True but irrelevant as Zoro didnt go all out in dressrosa so his feats not being at a level to take out queen doesnt mean much tbh. 

Well if we agree this conversation is pointless. 

Full power Zoro>=Raid Suit Sanji>base sanji

Aka Zoro potentially mid diffs base sanji


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 9, 2018)

HaxHax said:


> Interesting how the historic power relationship between the two is only relevant insofar as it lives up to your personal desires



Its as relevant as oda wants to make it. The gap between Zoro and Luffy has changed but the dynamic is still the same(Luffy>Zoro). The dynamic is the same between Zoro and Sanji the gap is just bigger same with luffy and zoro. 

And everyone bar Zoro haters can see that after the timeskip Zoros portrayal has changed significantly in his favor.

For oda to then go here Sanji have a raid suit now your stronger then Zoro after i spent the last 6 years hammering in the fact that zoros better. Its possible but very doubtful for obvious reasons.


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## Atem. (Dec 9, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I dont really like the term versions. Zoro and Sanji dont have Gears like Luffy does. I mean if you want to seperate Sanjis and Zoros stronger moves thays ok i guess but i think it gives the wrong impression. Sanji and Zoro have different attacks they dont have power up modes like Luffy or Goku.
> 
> Anyway like i said before Raid Suit Sanji(CAN) be stronger then Zoro. Im saying i dont believe that he is. Its odas manga if he wants sanji stronger then he will be sorry if im making it seem like its some impossibility(i just very much doubt it).
> 
> ...



Too many points to argue at this point, for my taste.

At least we agree on "Zoro > Sanji" and "Zoro ? RS-Sanji"

Let me just add that I believe post Wano the difficulty between all out Zoro and all out Sanji will be a high diff. (Based on the assumption they beat King and Queen respectively and with the same diff)


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 9, 2018)

Atem said:


> Too many points to argue at this point, for my taste.
> 
> At least we agree on "Zoro > Sanji" and "Zoro ? RS-Sanji"
> 
> *Let me just add that I believe post Wano the difficulty between all out Zoro and all out Sanji will be a high diff*. (Based on the assumption they beat King and Queen respectively and with the same diff)



I agree

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Dec 14, 2018)

It's luffy > Zoro > Sanji and will ever be

As fot the gap between them it's another debate.


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## Shinthia (Dec 14, 2018)

Gledania said:


> It's luffy > Zoro > Sanji and will ever be
> 
> As fot the gap between them it's another debate.


I think the gap has just widen a lot . Luffy looks way above Zoro now while Sanji looks way below Zoro .


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## Gledania (Dec 14, 2018)

Lionel Messi said:


> I think the gap has just widen a lot . Luffy looks way above Zoro now while Sanji looks way below Zoro .



I'm not sure about the gaps.

I wait for but Zoro and Sanji to go all out before judging. Because either they faced fodders , either oppenent above them (Fuji/DD) either their fight were interrupted ( vergo , Oven , Daifuku , ect ) ...
All of this of course because of fucking luffy show.


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## Thdyingbreed (Dec 14, 2018)

If anybody seriously believes Oda is actually going to require Sanji to need his RS to match current Zoro without his powerup they’re in for a rude awakening this arc Oda is not going to make Sanji look that bad by requiring him to get a powerup to keep up. I can pretty much guarantee you next time we see Zoro/Sanji together Oda is going to portray them the same way he usually does as near equals regardless of what the fans think Oda is going to scale them to each other.

Oda’s straight up reinforced there rivalry after WCI by giving them close bounties and each of them already have powerups setup in this arc after Wano it’s probably going to end up being Zoro(with Nidai)>=Raidsuit Sanji I expect the gaps to likely be similar to EL levels.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 14, 2018)

Thdyingbreed said:


> If anybody seriously believes Oda is actually going to require Sanji to need his RS to match current Zoro without his powerup they’re in for a rude awakening this arc Oda is not going to make Sanji look that bad by requiring him to get a powerup to keep up. I can pretty much guarantee you next time we see Zoro/Sanji together Oda is going to portray them the same way he usually does as near equals regardless of what the fans think Oda is going to scale them to each other.
> 
> Oda’s straight up reinforced there rivalry after WCI by giving them close bounties and each of them already have powerups setup in this arc after Wano it’s probably going to end up being Zoro(with Nidai)>=Raidsuit Sanji I expect the gaps to likely be similar to EL levels.



Nidai is a very minor upgrade. Espicailly if zoro gives Ryumas sword back in exchange. 

So either raid suit isnt a big upgrade(which it is), or zoro gives sanji the work over.


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