# How would the MS Sasuke vs MS Kakashi fight have gone if Naruto/Sakura never butt in?



## Transcendent Shinobi (Nov 13, 2014)

The fight between Sasuke and Kakashi right after danzo. The fight was at a draw until Sakura and Naruto came into the fight at the same time.

Just a reminder Kakashi was tired from sucking away sasukes Susanoo arrow and Sasuke had like a blindness Seizure from overusing his MS.

Also this is assuming Obito doesn't come to save poor Sasuke if Kakashi starts killing him.

So they are both tired and worn out but overall who do you think would of came out on top?


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## Bloo (Nov 13, 2014)

Kakashi, in my opinion. Sasuke was on the verge of blindness and was almost killed by Sakura. Kakashi wasn't entirely out of chakra and Sasuke had just gotten out of a battle with a powerful shinobi, thus he had less chakra reserves at the time.


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## trance (Nov 13, 2014)

Kakashi pushes Sauce's shit in.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 13, 2014)

Kakashi should have easily won as sasuke was blind and lost his light

But sasuke did seem superior to him at that point, kakashi was forced to kamui on his arrows and im sure sauce could of outlasted him so.

So if this is kakashi vs blind sauce he wins with no diff 

If this is just ms sauce vs pre war arc kakashi sasuke wins mid diff.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 13, 2014)

His Susano disappeared, and his MS became useless [1].There's also the chance that Kakashi would've simply killed him without warning if Sakura wasn't there to be attacked [1]. Kakashi is a very capable stealth killer (as we saw with Kakuzu and against Pain), and Sasuke didn't know Kakashi was there before he appeared. 

Either that, or wounded him to the point of no contest.

Though, from the result of this exchange [1], it's obvious Kakashi wanted to try convincing him to surrender before marking him for the kill. If Kakashi didn't witness him attempting to kill Sakura, he may well have only wanted to capture Sasuke. Because he witnessed Sasuke attempting to kill Sakura, in Kakashi's mind, Sasuke was beyond saving.

All that being said, a blind exhausted Sasuke would be murdered by most versions of Kakashi, including that one.


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## Ersa (Nov 14, 2014)

A reasonably healthy Kakashi fighting a near blind, post-Danzo fight Sasuke with little chakra.

I do wonder who wins.


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## Skywalker (Nov 14, 2014)

Kakashi beats him like a cheap hooker, Sasuke was in no condition to fight Kakashi.


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## JuicyG (Nov 14, 2014)

I'm not even sure Sasuke would beat Kakashi even when healthy and full at this point in the series.

Without knowledge on Kakashi's Kamui, I can easily anticipate Sasuke being sniped. Especially since at this point in the series, it wasn't IC for Sasuke to open up with Susano at the start of the fight, like Danzo's match. Sasuke would probably be eager to fight Kakashi in CQC and try to prove his teacher that he is superior. That's when I see Sasuke being sniped out


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## Bonly (Nov 14, 2014)

Of course Sasuke would lose. After fighting Kakashi for a little bit(after he finished fighting Danzo) he was damn near blind as well as had lost his Susanoo. Of course a pretty much fresh Kakashi for the most part would beat this weakened Sasuke


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## TheGreen1 (Nov 14, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Kakashi, in my opinion. Sasuke was on the verge of blindness and was almost killed by Sakura. Kakashi wasn't entirely out of chakra and Sasuke had just gotten out of a battle with a powerful shinobi, thus he had less chakra reserves at the time.



This. Sasuke was weak, his eyes weren't even able to manifest a regular sharingan, much less a MS. Kakashi would have curbstomped this Sauske no problem. Naruto if he didn't get poisoned, would have slaughtered Sasuke no problem, especially with SM.


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## Bonly (Nov 14, 2014)

TheGreen1 said:


> This. Sasuke was weak, *his eyes weren't even able to manifest a regular sharingan, much less a MS. *Kakashi would have curbstomped this Sauske no problem. Naruto if he didn't get poisoned, would have slaughtered Sasuke no problem, especially with SM.



Actually Sasuke did have his MS active for a short amount of time before it went away later


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## TheGreen1 (Nov 14, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Actually Sasuke did have his MS active for a short amount of time before it went away later



Well then, I stand corrected. Even so, he couldn't keep it up, and Kakashi had far more in the tank. Sasuke would have been killed.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> I'm not even sure Sasuke would beat Kakashi even when healthy and full at this point in the series.
> 
> Without knowledge on Kakashi's Kamui, I can easily anticipate Sasuke being sniped. Especially since at this point in the series, it wasn't IC for Sasuke to open up with Susano at the start of the fight, like Danzo's match. Sasuke would probably be eager to fight Kakashi in CQC and try to prove his teacher that he is superior. That's when I see Sasuke being sniped out



Wrong

Kakashi could barley run after being forced to use Kamui on one susano arrow, given sasuke stamina feats vs danzo, kakashi would have been easily outlasted had sasuke been fresh


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## JuicyG (Nov 14, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Wrong
> 
> Kakashi could barley run after being forced to use Kamui on one susano arrow, given sasuke stamina feats vs danzo, kakashi would have been easily outlasted had sasuke been fresh




Its not about being outlasted when dealing with Kamui without knowledge


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Its not about being outlasted when dealing with Kamui without knowledge



Kakashi sure didn't seem to think so 

If this was war arc i would give him the match but pre ??? Nah


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## IchLiebe (Nov 14, 2014)

Kakashi used two kamui's after a bunshin feint and three raikiri's in the pain fight. No way is one kamui doing shit stamina wise. He'll still have atleast 90% of his chakra left.


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## Hachibi (Nov 14, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Its not about being outlasted when dealing with Kamui without knowledge



Because Pre-War Kakashi can surely spam Kamui without dying.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Kakashi used two kamui's after a bunshin feint and three raikiri's in the pain fight. No way is one kamui doing shit stamina wise. He'll still have atleast 90% of his chakra left.



Because kakashi didn't  have to alter the size of his kamui due to the size of Sasuke's arrow. 


You think it cost the same amount of chakra to warp a nail then to warp sasuke's arrow??


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## Skilatry (Nov 14, 2014)

Kakashi struggled against a blind, exhausted Sasuke. He would have won that fight but only because Sasuke had just had the fight of his life against Danzo.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 14, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Because kakashi didn't  have to alter the size of his kamui due to the size of Sasuke's arrow.
> 
> You think it cost the same amount of chakra to warp a nail then to warp sasuke's arrow??



2 kamui's>1 kamui. Granted the second one killed him, he had already used a bunshin so he was at less than half by his own words. Then he used 2/3 raikiri's. So yeah he had PLENTY of chakra after that one kamui against Sasuke.


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## Mercurial (Nov 14, 2014)

Sasuke was lucky that Kakashi's intent was only to talk with him (1), (while Sasuke had clear killing intent; and Kakashi definitely not (2)(3)); Kakashi was fighting completely on the defensive, protecting himself (and Sakura before), he only decided that he would have killed Sasuke when he saw that Sasuke was completely lost in his vengeance (4)(5). Kakashi is also clearly portrayed as superior when Naruto is afraid only that Sasuke could be killed, and not Kakashi, if Kakashi attacked his past discipule; and also Zetsu quickly rushed to call Obito to save Sasuke. By feats Kakashi (without Sharingan) already stomped Sasuke (without Sharingan) in CQC; Kakashi was tired and has spent quite a bit of his chakra but Sasuke was esposed to unpredictable sight losses because of the eye strain of his Mangekyo; in a short time we would have completely lost his vision. Kakashi already proved that his Kamui was faster than the Susanoo Arrows (he could warp two of them when they were already mid-distance between Susanoo and him, and at that moment he still had the 3 tomoe Sharingan (6)(7)), Kamui also >>> Amaterasu and Susanoo is useless as a defence against it. So Kakashi pretty much would have stomped him.


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## JuicyG (Nov 14, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Because Pre-War Kakashi can surely spam Kamui without dying.




Who says he'd have to spam Kamui when Sasuke has zero knowledge....one shot should do


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> 2 kamui's>1 kamui. Granted the second one killed him, he had already used a bunshin so he was at less than half by his own words. Then he used 2/3 raikiri's. So yeah he had PLENTY of chakra after that one kamui against Sasuke.



So why did the manga have kakashi struggle to run afterwards??

Whats your explination??

The obvious answer is he had to put more chakra into this kamui due to the size of Sasuke's  arrow.


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## Blu-ray (Nov 14, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> A reasonably healthy Kakashi fighting a near blind, post-Danzo fight Sasuke with little chakra.
> 
> I do wonder who wins.







JuicyG said:


> I'm not even sure Sasuke would beat Kakashi even when healthy and full at this point in the series.
> 
> Without knowledge on Kakashi's Kamui, I can easily anticipate Sasuke being sniped. Especially since at this point in the series, it wasn't IC for Sasuke to open up with Susano at the start of the fight, like Danzo's match. Sasuke would probably be eager to fight Kakashi in CQC and try to prove his teacher that he is superior. That's when I see Sasuke being sniped out



Sasuke went into their Kage Summit clash with no knowledge on Kamui and with Kakashi intended to kill, so it's quite clear this isn't the case. And this Sasuke always IC resorted to Susano'o, so I'm not sure what your on.

Kakashi was shitting himself when tired near blind Sasuke brought out a stage 4 Susano'o. If he never successfully sniped people when he was confident he could, I sincerely doubt he's gonna accomplish it against a stronger Sasuke than what made him go 'oh shit.'


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## Hachibi (Nov 14, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Who says he'd have to spam Kamui when Sasuke has zero knowledge....one shot should do



Because unless the mindset is BL, Kamui won't be used unless he will be forced to, while Susano is pretty much IC for Sasuke to use, along with related technique like Susano's Arrow.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 14, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> So why did the manga have kakashi struggle to run afterwards??
> 
> Whats your explination??
> 
> The obvious answer is he had to put more chakra into this kamui due to the size of Sasuke's  arrow.



And you think that Kamui was SO big it took him down to almost out of chakra to the point he had trouble running? No, that's his non Uchiha body. He still had plenty of chakra. The real reason he had trouble running was plot needed Naruto to save Sakura for a dramatic entrance instead of Kakashi doing it.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> And you think that Kamui was SO big it took him down to almost out of chakra to the point he had trouble running? No, that's his non Uchiha body. He still had plenty of chakra. The real reason he had trouble running was plot needed Naruto to save Sakura for a dramatic entrance instead of Kakashi doing it.



Concession accepted as plot is not a exscuse ck

The first kamui clearly took it's toll on kakashi, if this was a fresh sasuke he was not gonna last long against amatarasu and multiple arrows being used on him, he hadn't  yet mastered his ms to the extent of war arc kakashi yet


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## Empathy (Nov 14, 2014)

If Sasuke had more energy left, he could've fired more arrows and all of them would warrant that Kakashi use _Kamui_ until he couldn't anymore after several arrows. Kakashi would die in that case, but if they had just continued without Obito and Zetsu intervening, Kakashi would've definitely killed Sasuke when he went blind trying to upgrade _Susanoo_.


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## Lawrence777 (Nov 14, 2014)

> Kakashi struggled against a blind, exhausted Sasuke. He would have won that fight but only because Sasuke had just had the fight of his life against Danzo.


This imo.
Kakashi would of won had the fight continued. Sasuke was blind and exhausted.
But a fresh Sasuke @ that point would of massacred Kakashi.

Kakashi was physically incapable of dodging the arrow[1]
So he'd have to either kamui or use a kage bushin just to survive each arrow, arrows which sasuke can spam.
Furthermore, even absorbing 1 arrow took a toll on Kakashi. His mobility was compromised afterward[2]

Just the way it was depicted Kakashi didn't seem confident @ all going against Sasuke's susano'o[3]


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## IchLiebe (Nov 14, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Concession accepted as plot is not a exscuse ck
> 
> The first kamui clearly took it's toll on kakashi, if this was a fresh sasuke he was not gonna last long against amatarasu and multiple arrows being used on him, he hadn't  yet mastered his ms to the extent of war arc kakashi yet



You are so annoying. Did I use plot as the only reason? I said it was the REAL reason as in the way kishi wrote it. I also gave an in-universe explanation which is Kakashi being non-uchiha as it takes it's toll on his body. Such as Part 1 Kakashi fighting for 10 minutes and then not being able to move for days. 

Did I say a fresh Sasuke loses? No, so quit derailing the thread. This has nothing to do with fresh Sasuke, this is Sasuke when him and Kakashi fought after the Danzo fight.

EDIT: Kakashi kamui'd two arrows not one.


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Skilatry said:


> Kakashi struggled against a blind, exhausted Sasuke. He would have won that fight but only because Sasuke had just had the fight of his life against Danzo.



When did Kakashi struggle?


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## Skilatry (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> When did Kakashi struggle?



He was struggling to run after he warped the arrow, clearly showing that using that amount of chakra took its toll on him.


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Skilatry said:


> He was struggling to run after he warped the arrow, clearly showing that using that amount of chakra took its toll on him.



Which was before Sasuke had become near blind and exhausted


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## Skilatry (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Which was before Sasuke had become near blind and exhausted



Err not really he'd just had the fight of his life against Danzo and was a complete mess, if your trying to imply that Sasuke was as fresh as a daisy when Kakashi intervened then lol.


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Skilatry said:


> Err not really he'd just had the fight of his life against Danzo and was a complete mess, if your trying to imply that Sasuke was as fresh as a daisy when Kakashi intervened then lol.



I see


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> I see



Karin doesn't heal you instantly or to 100%, when she healed tsunade, tsunade was still unable to get up or move right away.


then there's also the fact that she can't heal blindness due to ms over usage


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## Skilatry (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> I see



And whats that meant to prove? If Sasuke was at full health he wouldn't have deactivated Susanoo and gone blind like he did. He would have kept spamming arrows until Kakashi was exhausted, which honestly wouldn't have taken very long considering only one was making him struggle.


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## Jagger (Nov 14, 2014)

I guess this turned into a fresh MS Sasuke vs Pre-War Kakashi at this point.

Which is an interesting debate. In such scenario, Kakashi is more pressed as he can't spam Kamui for longer than 3 times (I believe) without struggling or feeling too tired while Sasuke, on the other hand, posessess a bigger stamina. 

I think it all comes down on how Kakashi utilizes them along with his other tricks. This is something he can't win by spamming the shit out of his eye abilities.


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Skilatry said:


> And whats that meant to prove? If Sasuke was at full health he wouldn't have deactivated Susanoo and gone blind like he did. He would have kept spamming arrows until Kakashi was exhausted, which honestly wouldn't have taken very long considering only one was making him struggle.



Uhm no?


The Suasnoo still put a huge toll on him fresh or not

And he still had a refill from Karin just then meaning he was healed from his last fight


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Karin doesn't heal you instantly or to 100%, when she healed tsunade, tsunade was still unable to get up or move right away.
> 
> 
> then there's also the fact that she can't heal blindness due to ms over usage



Tsunade was in far worse condition and she was fine after Karin healed her

She was focused saving the other kage  but she could move just fine


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## Skilatry (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Uhm no?
> 
> 
> The Suasnoo still put a huge toll on him fresh or not
> ...



Uhm yes?


He was using Susanoo and spamming his MS like crazy during the Danzo fight, he didn't go blind then.

And Karin can't heal Sasuke's eye sight, if she could then why did he go blind so quickly after immediately getting healed when that didn't happen in the Danzo fight?


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Tsunade was in far worse condition and she was fine after Karin healed her
> 
> She was focused saving the other kage  but she could move just fine



she was in worst condition i could agree.


danzo also interrupted the healing tho, and as i've already stated karin can't heal ms blindness from over usage so it doesn't matter either way.


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## Alucardemi (Nov 14, 2014)

Empathy said:


> If Sasuke had more energy left, he could've fired more arrows and all of them would warrant that Kakashi use _Kamui_ until he couldn't anymore after several arrows. Kakashi would die in that case, but if they had just continued without Obito and Zetsu intervening, Kakashi would've definitely killed Sasuke when he went blind trying to upgrade _Susanoo_.



This is accurate.

Sasuke's arrows were hyped to be stupid fast at that point in the series.


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## Ashi (Nov 14, 2014)

Skilatry said:


> Uhm yes?
> 
> 
> He was using Susanoo and spamming his MS like crazy during the Danzo fight, he didn't go blind then.
> ...





Bkprince33 said:


> she was in worst condition i could agree.
> 
> 
> danzo also interrupted the healing tho, and as i've already stated karin can't heal ms blindness from over usage so it doesn't matter either way.



It doesn't matter wether or not Karin could heal the blind because Sasuke didn't go blind until AFTER Kakashi showed up

So saying Fresh Kakashi struggled vs Blind Sasuke is inaccurate


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> It doesn't matter wether or not Karin could heal the blind because Sasuke didn't go blind until AFTER Kakashi showed up
> 
> So saying Fresh Kakashi struggled vs Blind Sasuke is inaccurate



you must have me confused with someone as all i said was kakashi would of lost had sasuke been fresh and not been blind


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## Baroxio (Nov 14, 2014)

If this is In Character at this point than Sasuke wins easily. Kakashi is far more reluctant to use his Magenkyou Sharingan than Sasuke is, and Sasuke can force a defensive Kamui easily with his Mach Speed (+) Arrows.

Of course even in a bloodlusted match, it's basically a case of Aamterasu vs Kamui, in which case Kakashi can win...only to die moments later due to black flames or at the very least sustain heavy injuries and chakra exhaustion with an immediate second use of Kamui mere seconds after the first to suck up the black flames.


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## Skilatry (Nov 14, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> It doesn't matter wether or not Karin could heal the blind because Sasuke didn't go blind until AFTER Kakashi showed up
> 
> So saying Fresh Kakashi struggled vs Blind Sasuke is inaccurate



He went blind after using one arrow, if he was at 100% he would have spammed MS like he did against Danzo and Kakashi would have got destroyed very quickly.


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## ARGUS (Nov 15, 2014)

Kakashi would/shouldd have slit his head off with kamui, 

blind sasuke would stand no chance, 
war arc kakashi needs 2 kamui warps to finish MS sasuke off


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## Hachibi (Nov 15, 2014)

Karin's heal can't regen chakra, just injury, which doesn't matter since Sasuke used much more his chakra than his physical skills at that point in time.


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## Eliyua23 (Nov 15, 2014)

It was implied that once Sasuke activated stage 4 Susanoo Kakashi could do nothing to him


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## Dominus (Nov 15, 2014)

Eliyua23 said:


> It was implied that once Sasuke activated stage 4 Susanoo Kakashi could do nothing to him



[sp=Too bad he couldn't use it anymore]
[/sp]


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## Ashi (Nov 15, 2014)

Skilatry said:


> He went blind after using one arrow, if he was at 100% he would have spammed MS like he did against Danzo and Kakashi would have got destroyed very quickly.



No he went blind after using the Full Susanoo's Possession


He could still maintain it after his arrow shot






Hachibi said:


> Karin's heal can't regen chakra, just injury, which doesn't matter since Sasuke used much more his chakra than his physical skills at that point in time.



Not true since Tsunade gained her youthful form after Sucking on Karin's chkra


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## Hexa (Nov 15, 2014)

Karin's chakra will heal wounds, but it by no means restores people to 100%.  There was a comment that *Neji: Sasuke was greatly weakened from his fight at the Gokage summit.... and against Danzo. Why didn't you just finish him off when you had the chance?*​Granted, there's also Naruto's response that it wouldn't have been easy like that due to Indra's presence.  Who knows what that meant, however.


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## Krippy (Nov 15, 2014)

Sauce would toss arrows at him until he dies. He was neither blind nor out of chakra when they were interrupted.


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## Hachibi (Nov 15, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Not true since Tsunade gained her youthful form after Sucking on Karin's chkra



Who do realise that Tsunade store chakra in her forehead while Sasuke doesn't?


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## Ashi (Nov 15, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Who do realise that Tsunade store chakra in her forehead while Sasuke doesn't?



She didn't get that chakra from herself, that's why she was in that state

She got the extra chakra from Karin which proves that it also replenishes chakra



Hexa said:


> Karin's chakra will heal wounds, but it by no means restores people to 100%.  There was a comment that *Neji: Sasuke was greatly weakened from his fight at the Gokage summit.... and against Danzo. Why didn't you just finish him off when you had the chance?*​Granted, there's also Naruto's response that it wouldn't have been easy like that due to Indra's presence.  Who knows what that meant, however.



Neji wasn't there, and that's still AFTER the fight with Kakashi


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## Skilatry (Nov 15, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> No he went blind after using the Full Susanoo's Possession
> 
> 
> He could still maintain it after his arrow shot



If he was at full health his full Susanoo wouldn't have fizzled out immediately, he would have maintained it and spammed more arrows, which would = one dead Kakashi.


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## Ashi (Nov 15, 2014)

Skilatry said:


> If he was at full health his full Susanoo wouldn't have fizzled out immediately, he would have maintained it and spammed more arrows, which would = one dead Kakashi.



It wasn't full but he definitely wasn't exhausted either


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## Skilatry (Nov 16, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> It wasn't full but he definitely wasn't exhausted either



He used one arrow, then used full Susanoo and immediately went blind and ran out of chakra, seems pretty exhausted to me.


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## I Blue I (Nov 17, 2014)

I think the confusion with regards to Karin's healing and replenishment capabilities can be attributed to the author's inconsistent treatment of medical ninjutsu. In the earlier parts of the series, medical ninjutsu and other restorative techniques were only ever shown to be able to heal injuries, but during the war arc, they also began to restore and transfer chakra, as well. If memory serves, the first ever instance of this was when Tsunade replenished Gaara and Onoki's chakra reserves during the beginning of their fight against Madara. This was a development we had never seen before, but from then on, was used far more liberally, i.e. Sakura using it to revitalize Naruto's reserves after he protected the alliance from Tenpenchii, Karin giving Tsunade chakra, etc.


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