# Nickelodean's "Avatar: The Last Airbender" Discusion, Book Three: Fire



## Ms. Jove (Jul 20, 2010)

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## Ms. Jove (Jul 20, 2010)

I have all three books on DVD, obviously bought the day they were released. But I haven't been able to talk myself into the Book 1 Collector's Edition.

I like watching the show with commercials. So without Nicktoons, I'm flipped.


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## Mider T (Jul 20, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I figured that Jove would ahve bought every version of every Avatar box set
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8KsLkXQosQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=oGjKiDWzVzY&feature=sub[/YOUTUBE]



 4:05-4:07


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## Burke (Jul 20, 2010)

Bad romance. 




Jove said:


> I have all three books on DVD, obviously bought the day they were released. But I haven't been able to talk myself into the Book 1 Collector's Edition.
> 
> I like watching the show with commercials. So without Nicktoons, I'm flipped.



Thats so unlike you.


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## Roy (Jul 20, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I figured that Jove would ahve bought every version of every Avatar box set
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8KsLkXQosQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=oGjKiDWzVzY&feature=sub[/YOUTUBE]



that bad romance joke  classic Sokka XD


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## Stevenh1990 (Jul 20, 2010)

So I was rewatching Book 3 the first ep and is it just me or is Azula waaaay more hotter without her make up on and her hair in a ponytail ?


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 20, 2010)

Stevenh1990 said:


> So I was rewatching Book 3 the first ep and is it just me or is Azula waaaay more hotter without her make up on and her hair in a ponytail ?



I thought she looked her best in Crossroads of Destiny, with the EK uniform, but _many_ have suggested The Awakening.

 I'm not into subtly incestuous interplay. so I suppose I would find something to cite besides that scene.


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 20, 2010)

Jove said:


> I thought she looked her best in Crossroads of Destiny, with the EK uniform, but _many_ have suggested The Awakening.
> 
> I'm not into subtly incestuous interplay. so I suppose I would find something to cite besides that scene.


Do you think Azula blames Zuko for Ursa?


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## Terra Branford (Jul 20, 2010)

Stevenh1990 said:


> So I was rewatching Book 3 the first ep and is it just me or is Azula waaaay more hotter without her make up on and her hair in a ponytail ?



Well, I'm not sure about hot (I'm a girl, so I really can't say) but she does look cooler/dangerous/awesome at the end of the show (B3).


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## Platinum (Jul 20, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I figured that Jove would ahve bought every version of every Avatar box set
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8KsLkXQosQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=oGjKiDWzVzY&feature=sub[/YOUTUBE]



That is just awesome


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## Burke (Jul 20, 2010)

Thank you thank you, i know i am the supplier to premium avatar videos. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRKSLnfayx0&playnext_from=TL&videos=L5etpEKDyec&feature=sub[/YOUTUBE]

First puppetbenders comes back and now ATAS picks up?


**


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## Platinum (Jul 20, 2010)

They sure are playing Avatar a lot on nick, that is a good thing. Though since I have the whole series on my Zune I usually just watch it on that.

But anyways, hope we get some new info at comic-con.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 20, 2010)

Platinum said:


> They sure are playing Avatar a lot on nick, that is a good thing. Though since I have the whole series on my Zune I usually just watch it on that.
> 
> But anyways, hope we get some new info at comic-con.



I wish I had it all on the go 

I'm missing the last part of Book 3 on DVDs, but I don't think I'm gonna get em anyways.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 21, 2010)

Stevenh1990 said:


> So I was rewatching Book 3 the first ep and is it just me or is Azula waaaay more hotter without her make up on and her hair in a ponytail ?


No, I noticed that as well. She looked like a completely different character.

You see a glimpse of it again when she's putting up her hair in the final episodes. Before she decides to play barber.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> No, I noticed that as well. She looked like a completely different character.
> 
> You see a glimpse of it again when she's putting up her hair in the final episodes. Before she decides to play barber.



I just thought she looked older


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Well, I'm not sure about hot (I'm a girl, so I really can't say) but she does look cooler/dangerous/awesome at the end of the show (B3).


You mean HETEROSEXUAL girl


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> Thank you thank you, i know i am the supplier to premium avatar videos.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRKSLnfayx0&playnext_from=TL&videos=L5etpEKDyec&feature=sub[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



Dat Jin.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You mean HETEROSEXUAL girl


I doubt my thoughts would change even if I wasn't Heterosexual.... 
So I said "girl" as in my opinions wouldn't shift no matter what my sexual orientation was/is.


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## Kno7 (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I doubt my thoughts would change even if I wasn't Heterosexual....
> So I said "girl" as in my opinions wouldn't shift no matter what my sexual orientation was/is.


I don't follow. 


And I see what you guys mean. The ponytail suits her well. Very well.


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## Nimander (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't quite remember what she looked like with the ponytail, yet for some reason I don't feel like tracking the episode down right now.  If someone would post a screenshot, I'd be much obliged. *waggles eyebrows*

Also, I was just thinking the other day that the character designs in Book 3 (the main cast in Fire Nation colors) was probably my favorite look for them throughout the entire series.  I still much prefer Aang with hair than without.


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## Platinum (Jul 21, 2010)

I agree with you. I liked Aang with hair more than his normal bald look.


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## DominusDeus (Jul 21, 2010)

Watched the movie the other day, and honestly, it was far more impressive and well done than Dragonball: Evolution. Actually looking forward to book 2 being done, and the introduction of Toph, as she's my favorite character. Her snark level is over 9000.


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

OK, who's ready for official Legend Of Korra along with a publicity still?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100721/ap_en_mo/us_tv_legend_of_korra


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## sasori54 (Jul 21, 2010)

ok seriously the movie was the most disapointing terrible movie i've ever seen. when it first came out i heard very bad reviews so i kinda refused to watch it for a couple of days then my friends called me to go and watch and i said wth why not. so while we are watching aang or should i say ong doing his bending he has to do like a 30 sec dance to do anything. sakka or should i say soko wasnt humorous at all he was very bland i would say emo. katara looked like she was 5 years old and katara and soko were eskimos not albinos. the scene were aang or once again ong gave his speach to help hiru and the earth benders one of the funniest things i've ever seen my entire life, 6 earth benders did this 30 sec rain dance to move a little rock and pass to another earth bender to throw. and the ending when i saw the wave up in the air i was standing out of my seat hoping to see something cool come out of this movie and all that happens is the fire nation runs away wtf thats not even close to what happens. i will be so pissed if M. Night Shyamalan gets to direct the second book i will have lost all faith in humanity.


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes, it sucks we get it. You're also misusing the term emo...great.
I just posted some great news. Let's forget about the film already.


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

KORRA IS A GIRL! YES!


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

And from the looks of it, she's Watertribe.


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## Superrazien (Jul 21, 2010)

^ I wonder if they will have Aangs decedent hook up with her.


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## Man in Black (Jul 21, 2010)

Looks like Korra is a badass.


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Korra's looking pretty badass in that pic.


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## rancher8 (Jul 21, 2010)

Hmm... I wonder where that pic is supposed to take place. If that city in the background is water tribe,they most likely have gained some territory. As the city in the foreground doesn't appear to be water tribe, due to the use of wood in its architecture, or perhaps its one giant city but with different districts as it looks like it may be connected by some sort of bridge. No matter the scenario, my fears that the series would be environmentally boring, due to haven already seen much of the world, have been put at ease.


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

> 'hotheaded, independent and "ready to take on the world."



Can't wait till 2011.


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## Shippingr4losers (Jul 21, 2010)

> KORRA IS A GIRL! YES!



There was a doubt she wasn't?

Anyway, looks like we're going for a timeskip. Can't wait to see what happens.


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## Man in Black (Jul 21, 2010)

Higher res screen:






> Nickelodeon said in a release that *“The Legend of Korra takes place 70 years after the events of ‘Avatar: The Last Airbender’ and follows the adventures of the Avatar after Aang – a passionate, rebellious, and fearless teenaged girl from the Southern Water Tribe named Korra.”*
> 
> Korra’s quest eventually leads her to *Republic City–the epicenter of the world of “Avatar.” A metropolis powered by steampunk-type technology, the city is inhabited by people from all nations.* Korra finds that *Republic City suffers from rampant crime and is also dealing with an anti-bender revolt.** Korra is tutored by Aang’s son, Tenzin, is the ways of airbending.*



Anti-Bender revolts? Awesome.

Steampunk? Awesomer!


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## Shippingr4losers (Jul 21, 2010)

> hotheaded, independent and "ready to take on the world."



The Boards on 4chan predict another Katara. And generally do not approve of Steampunk.


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## Man in Black (Jul 21, 2010)

Shippingr4losers said:


> The Boards on 4chan predict another Katara. And generally do not approve of Steampunk.


Who doesn't approve of Steampunk?

Lol 4chan


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## Shippingr4losers (Jul 21, 2010)

Superman Reboot Rumors!

_"My name is 4chan, troll of trolls:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"_

*Edit:* And who is Meelo?


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

> Korra is tutored by Aang?s son, Tenzin, is the ways of airbending.



So either she already knows Earth and Fire, or she's trying to learn Air early like Aang did with Fire.

Steampunk in my Avatar? Hells yeah.


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

4chan needs to burn.

Man in Black's set is epic.


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

Piekage said:


> So either she already knows Earth and Fire, or she's trying to learn Air early like Aang did with Fire.
> 
> Steampunk in my Avatar? Hells yeah.



You were right with that first part.


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## Linkdarkside (Jul 21, 2010)

Man in Black said:


> Higher res screen:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


she looks like around 15 years old from that screen.

i gues Aang died at 65? years old


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

Sweet, this sounds very interesting!


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## Superrazien (Jul 21, 2010)

Linkdarkside said:


> she looks like around 15 years old from that screen.
> 
> i gues Aang died at 65? years old



You mean 165 years old


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## Linkdarkside (Jul 21, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> You mean 165 years old


no they said 70 years after the events of the original series, if that true he died around 55 years old?.


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

Assuming he's dead at all.

/PLOT TWIST/DUAL AVATAR/OLD MAN AANG RAEP TIME


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

Aang's son, Tenzin? 

This dude should be around 30 years old, yay nay? Unless he was the youngest? LOVE INTEREST?


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

Is it just me or does Tenzin sound like a Fire Nation name?


CHEE YOUR SET BURNS MY VERY SOUL/EYES!!!!!!!!!!!11


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Linkdarkside said:


> no they said 70 years after the events of the original series, if that true he died around 55 years old?.



Aang is technically over 100 since he was frozen for 100 years.


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> You were right with that first part.



That would be an interesting change, seeing an Avatar at the end of their training from the get go.


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

Darth said:


> Is it just me or does Tenzin sound like a Fire Nation name?
> 
> 
> CHEE YOUR SET BURNS MY VERY SOUL/EYES!!!!!!!!!!!11



Yea, it does. It's probably the 'z'. Almost every firebender has a z in their name. 

WHAT!? WHY!? ITS SEXY!!!!!


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Awesome, but why I do I get the feeling there's going to be an environmental message in here?

And I wonder are they actually gonna have Aang die, or is he just going to "ascend" since he was the greatest Avatar of them all?


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## spiritmight (Jul 21, 2010)

Regarding this new, recently announced series.


FUUUUUUUCK YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

Piekage said:


> That would be an interesting change, seeing an Avatar at the end of their training from the get go.


Yeah, actually that would be pretty awesome.

So all that's left for her is fire and Air? Hmm, I wonder how they're going to pace the series? two books instead of three?


Chee said:


> Yea, it does. It's probably the 'z'. Almost every firebender has a z in their name.
> 
> WHAT!? WHY!? ITS SEXY!!!!!


I hope Aang married a sexy firebender. 

AZULA!!! 

and no. It's not. no. argh. 


Mider T said:


> Awesome, but why I do I get the feeling there's going to be an environmental message in here?
> 
> And I wonder are they actually gonna have Aang die, or is he just going to "ascend" since he was the greatest Avatar of them all?


No, to both of your points because that would be gay.


spiritmight said:


> Regarding this new, recently announced series.
> 
> 
> FUUUUUUUCK YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS



You're slow.


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

Why, you don't like the sex-God named JGL?




So what's the plot going to be for this one?


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

Calvin Klein. 

huh. I could go for that. 

And no, I RLY DUN LIEK HIM because I was told that he's a carbon copy of myself.

Which irritates me to no end.


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

yayyy when is it coming out


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

troublesum-chan said:


> yayyy when is it coming out



Some time next year, probably November.


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

yay hope i can still afford cable


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Some time next year, probably November.



This angers me.

I can't wait a year.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

I only say November because that's the way the first series started.  A mini-preview in February, then actually series in November.  Episodes take notoriously long to make.


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

Sigh, that is a long time to wait.


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## Eki (Jul 21, 2010)

this means no more aang


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

So I would imagine. 

Still, can't wait that long.

EDIT: Damnit! ninja'd by two people. One of them has an identical post to mine.

CHEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

i would rather have quality eps then fast shit though


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

I agree with t-chan, but I feel the agony



Eki said:


> this means no more aang



She still has to go into the spirit world.


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## Castiel (Jul 21, 2010)

Called my sister and told her about this a half hour ago, she still hasn't shut up


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

Your fault for calling.



SHARE THE JOY!


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

So is it confirmed to be airing on Nicktoons or Nickelodeon?


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

it better not be nicktoons


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

It should be on Nickelodeon...


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## Porcelain (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> So is it confirmed to be airing on Nicktoons or Nickelodeon?



I'mma go with Nicktoons...? That's where I've been seeing it alot.


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## Darth (Jul 21, 2010)

It probably will be Nicktoons seeing as that's their main teenage/pre-teen based audience catch.

Doesn't matter to me because some nice guy will probably just upload the full quality version on the internet for me.


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh hell yes. Korra sounds awesome in just about every way. YES to Steampunk in my Avatars.


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## Man in Black (Jul 21, 2010)

I hope Nickelodeon doesn't pull the same stunt with this series as they did with The Last Airbender.



			
				Darth said:
			
		

> Man in Black's set is epic.


Of course it is.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

I was like, where is Jove in all of this!?!
But it says hes currently viewing/fapping. 

Btw Jove, i call Korra set 


Look at those buildings! God i love the future!
Surrounding make me think earth kingdom.
And to all of those who forgot, the avatar becomes aware of who they are at 16 traditionally. So it is safe to assume shes 16-17.


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## Platinum (Jul 21, 2010)

Man in Black said:


> Higher res screen:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This sounds incredibly awesome.

It can't come fast enough.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 21, 2010)

I am intrigued to say the least...

Maybe Benders are now a rarity in the world; perhaps having even been killed off due to a backlash against the 100 year war caused by the Benders?


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## Jannoy (Jul 21, 2010)

I fangasm'd.

And it better not be on Nicktoons. The regular Nickelodean needs something other than tripe like Fairly Odd Parents and Spongebob reruns.


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Do you think Azula blames Zuko for Ursa?



If you mean that she blames him for her forced disappearance, probably not. She probably didn't think about it that deeply. She might as she rots in the mental home, but not for the first 60/61 of the series. She probably did blame Zuko in some way for the poor relationship she had with Ursa. 



Mider T said:


> I only say November because that's the way the first series started.  A mini-preview in February, then actually series in November.  Episodes take notoriously long to make.



What mini-preview? A:tLA began in February, after being pushed back a couple of times, and ran through to December with a 3 month break for Summer.




> Korra is tutored by Aang’s son, Tenzin, is the ways of airbending.



I'm interested in what this means. Teaching Korra in the "ways" of airbending does not definitely indicate that Tenzin is an airbender. I recall DiMartino saying in the Sozin's Comet book:



I am a little concerned about the steampunk elements. It's something that's been done before, and quite prolifically. The idiosyncrasies of the Avaverse lay in its archaic setting. I really would have preferred the story of the first Avatar. I wonder how Mike/Bryan/Aaron handle it.

It will not be on Nicktoons. New episodes of Avatar air on the main network. That's not going to change.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> I'm interested in what this means. Teaching Korra in the "ways" of airbending does not definitely indicate that Tenzin is an airbender. I recall DiMartino saying in the Sozin's Comet book:



Now Jove, that interview was a while ago, it is entirely possible that hes changed his views of how things will work out.


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## Jannoy (Jul 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> I am a little concerned about the steampunk elements. It's something that's been done before, and quite prolifically. The idiosyncrasies of the Avaverse lay in its archaic setting. I really would have preferred the story of the first Avatar. I wonder how Mike/Bryan/Aaron handle it.



With the hints from advanced Fire Nation technology such as their airships in the original series, the steampunk setting became inevitable once Firebenders and Waterbenders started working together after the war ended.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> I'm interested in what this means. Teaching Korra in the "ways" of airbending does not definitely indicate that Tenzin is an airbender. I recall DiMartino saying in the Sozin's Comet book:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



no more Air nomads =/= no more Air Benders

All it means is that the Air nomad culture is dead


~~

As for the steam punk thing: I think it could easily work in the Avatar world, especially in a world that has rejected bending as a way of life...and considering that the Fire Nation and those people that lived in the Air Temple were already using "steam punk Light" technology I see this as a natural progression of the culture.


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## Platinum (Jul 21, 2010)

I think the steam punk setting will work out.

Hope we get to see Sokka's descendant or descendants.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Checking, it did start in Feb, my mistake.  I think it was supposed to start in November of 2004 though.

And about Tenzin, even if he isn't an Airbender he still carries the gene, so the Airbenders might rise again.


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

Wait, so this show might premiere in Feb?


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 21, 2010)

Linkdarkside said:


> no they said 70 years after the events of the original series, if that true he died around 55 years old?.



You know, I could have sworn Ang was a bit older than 0 at the end of the series.

(Ang's age + 70 - Korra's age) 

So about mid to late 60's depending on Korra's age (which should be 16, since that's the established age for Avatars to be told who they are (Aang was  an exception).

Meaning Aang probably died at 66.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Chee said:


> Wait, so this show might premiere in Feb?



The release date will be revealed at earliest tomorrow and at latest Sunday.


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2010)

I hope Tenzin is like Sokka's age and not an old monky type guy. Well, unless he's like the Iroh of this series. I would be cool with that.

So Comic-Con starts tomorrow? Can we expect more information and maybe a teaser?


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

I think my biggest question is, what happened in the 16 years between aangs death, and korra's awakening that made people not want bending. You see, this 16 year period is a time opf uncertainty, and always has been in the world of avatar. 16 years without a higher power to deal out justice. I mean, with noone stopping him, sozin destroyed the airnomads only 11 years after the death of roku. Im sure that this "pro industrial" sect was founded by fire nation people left over who still hated the avatar. Im sure that during Aang's time as avatar, he kept it all in check, and this sect stayed underground, but after the death of Aang, they took advantage of this 16 year period. I could imagine that throughout time, countless outbursts of violence arose after the eath of an avatar. In worst cases, it becomes 16 years of chaos.



Mider T said:


> Checking, it did start in Feb, my mistake.  I think it was supposed to start in November of 2004 though.
> 
> And about Tenzin, even if he isn't an Airbender he still carries the gene, so the Airbenders might rise again.



Bryke has stated that bending trait is not genetic, it is more of a spiritual happening.

Anyone anywhere at any time could have the bending trait, but they need a teacher to turn it into ability.

Thats basically what they said.



Shade said:


> I hope Tenzin is like Sokka's age and not an old monky type guy. Well, unless he's like the Iroh of this series. I would be cool with that.
> 
> So Comic-Con starts tomorrow? Can we expect more information and maybe a teaser?



Old man? I think probably not. Yout see, aang most likely died somewhere between 60 and 65 (160 to 165 <_<) years of age. I would put Tenzin's age at 25 to 35 years old.
Hmm, or mabye this timeline would work.

Year 0: End of The last airbender

Years 10 to 30: I would place tenzins birth somewhere in here depending on many things like how early they wanted to start repopulating , and other things like If he was the youngest of many children or the first.

Year 50: Aangs death/Birth of Korra

Year 70: Beginning of The Legend of Korra.

So... ok he could be like 50, but he could also be like 30.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Shade said:


> I hope Tenzin is like Sokka's age and not an old monky type guy. Well, unless he's like the Iroh of this series. I would be cool with that.
> 
> So Comic-Con starts tomorrow? Can we expect more information and maybe a teaser?



A bit hard to believe that Tenzin will be teenaged, but Azulon had Ozai at a late age so it's not impossible.

I'm picturing Tenzin at around mid-30s.


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## Quaero (Jul 21, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I think my biggest question is, what happened in the 16 years between aangs death, and korra's awakening that made people not want bending. You see, this 16 year period is a time opf uncertainty, and always has been in the world of avatar. 16 years without a higher power to deal out justice. I mean, with noone stopping him, sozin destroyed the airnomads only 11 years after the death of roku. Im sure that this "pro industrial" sect was founded by fire nation people left over who still hated the avatar. Im sure that during Aang's time as avatar, he kept it all in check, and this sect stayed underground, but after the death of Aang, they took advantage of this 16 year period. I could imagine that throughout time, countless outbursts of violence arose after the eath of an avatar. In worst cases, it becomes 16 years of chaos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well, 16 years is not a lot compared to the previous 100 ones, so it might go a bit deeper than that.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 21, 2010)

Shade said:


> I hope Tenzin is like Sokka's age and not an old monky type guy. Well, unless he's like the Iroh of this series. I would be cool with that.



If Aang and Katara had their first kid in their early 20's Tenzin could be as old as 60.


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## Linkdarkside (Jul 21, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I was like, where is Jove in all of this!?!
> But it says hes currently viewing/fapping.
> 
> Btw Jove, i call Korra set
> ...


well could be the earth territory the fire nation gained during the war ,i doulp they gave back th land they gained by a lot of years back.


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## Quaero (Jul 21, 2010)

The city in the picture is Republic city. It's supposedly the new epicenter of the avatar world. People form all 4 nations live in there together, but is riddled with crime and anti-bender revolts.


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## Omolara (Jul 21, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> As for the steam punk thing: I think it could easily work in the Avatar world, especially in a world that has rejected bending as a way of life...and considering that the Fire Nation and those people that lived in the Air Temple were already using "steam punk Light" technology I see this as a natural progression of the culture.



That's exactly what I was thinking when I read the steam punk bit. With the Fire Nation's industrialism, and the Mechanist and Sokka's vision, I think that a steampunk world is very possible. 

And since the world seems to be turning anti-bender, it would make sense for them to use those old bending technologies to replace bending itself. Honestly, I could see Zuko (since his nation currently has control of all that technology) wanting to actually spread wealth and encourage industry the world over. That would extend to making the technology that's powered by bending accessible to non-benders. 
It's not much of a stretch.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> no more Air nomads =/= no more Air Benders
> 
> All it means is that the Air nomad culture is dead



But the first part, about the title being literal, does mean no more air benders. I always thought that was balderdash, anyway, even if Mike DiMartino was being straightforward.

As for the steampunk, I suppose it depends on how pronounced it is in the story. Although the time period of A:tLA was not unique, it was far less prevalent than steampunk. So I wonder how they maintain the show's ethos in a genre that's been done to death. Though considering the world of A:tLA, I suppose that the next logical epoch would be a by-the-definition steampunk world.


----------



## Shade (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh yeah, totally didn't think out the years difference. Hey, I guess Tenzin's age doesn't really matter, I have faith in MBA's ability to create rich characters.

So by what means do you guys think the anti-benders will revolt against the benders? The technology will have to be ramped up quite a bit in the Avatarverse if it's to compete with the might of powerful benders.


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## Omolara (Jul 21, 2010)

Linkdarkside said:


> well could be the earth territory the fire nation gained during the war ,i doulp they gave back th land they gained by a lot of years back.



I've had this fanfic idea where the former colonies aren't given back to the Earth Kingdom, but become shared territory in my head for a long time. They could eventually become independent, leading to this. It wouldn't do well to just give the colonies back and boot the Fire Nation citizens out because they'd also lived there and had families for over 100 years at the oldest of the colonies. I think that those places would have lost their identities as either Fire Nation or Earth Kingdom, as hinted at by FN reactions to our favorite "colonials".


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Non-benders in the avatarverse tend to be thinkers.  If they can capture the hearts and minds, it won't matter if benders are more powerful.  The benders will also be demonized for their natural advantage if they ever try to attack.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2010)

Speaking of fanfic, how awesome would it be if they just casually dropped little hints throughout the entire series that How I Became Yours actually happened?


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> Speaking of fanfic, how awesome would it be if they just casually dropped little hints throughout the entire series that How I Became Yours actually happened?



Ladies in gentlemen, Jove has gone crazy.

Keep it up Jove, Keep it up...


----------



## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

So the Sokka and Toph as Korra's grandparents thing will be confirmed?  She is headstrong after all

Oh that's right, I went there already


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 21, 2010)

Shade said:


> So by what means do you guys think the anti-benders will revolt against the benders? The technology will have to be ramped up quite a bit in the Avatarverse if it's to compete with the might of powerful benders.



would be kinda nice, though perhaps way too dark, if they took a kinda "_Days of Future Past_" approach to the Anti-Bender Issue...

Also, I would think that Benders wouldn't be considered freaks, but rather that their presence in the world causes wars and other unnecessary conflict and the masses just decided enough is enough.


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## Omolara (Jul 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> Speaking of fanfic, how awesome would it be if they just casually dropped little hints throughout the entire series that How I Became Yours actually happened?



Why would you even? 

I can hear the Zutarians now..

"_Steam_ punk? Steambabies!!!1 We were right!"

Why do they hate my favorite characters (everybody)?


----------



## Linkdarkside (Jul 21, 2010)

Darth said:


> Assuming he's dead at all.
> 
> /PLOT TWIST/DUAL AVATAR/OLD MAN AANG RAEP TIME


if he was alive they would be no Korra.


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

whats this about fanfictions


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2010)

Like, maybe some random people walk by Korra after something disastrous is about to happen, and one of them goes, "This will be worse than when Fire Lady Katara was poisoned and miscarried!"


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## Linkdarkside (Jul 21, 2010)

Omolara said:


> I've had this fanfic idea where the former colonies aren't given back to the Earth Kingdom, but become shared territory in my head for a long time. They could eventually *become independent*, leading to this. It wouldn't do well to just give the colonies back and boot the Fire Nation citizens out because they'd also lived there and had families for over 100 years at the oldest of the colonies. I think that those places would have lost their identities as either Fire Nation or Earth Kingdom, as hinted at by FN reactions to our favorite "colonials".


could be ,but hopefully the fire nation keep some land since they are tiny in land mass.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Rumors say that Zuko and Azula are still alive (most likely, due to the comet) but Zuko is dying.


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

nooo i dont want to see old zuko

i had a weird dream last night about zuko

nothing cool though i was in a dungeon and then i accidently strangled his pet or something so i was expecting him to come kill me but i could fly so i was going to fly as soon as he got there

but he was really nice and instead gave me a bag of pizza dough and paper and crayons to draw with

it was really weird


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## SasuOna (Jul 21, 2010)

If its steampunk its kind of offputting for me but if its done well then it can still hook me.
Korra is a girl.........and shes water tribe............perfection.

Bending revolution..........Republic.......sounds very interesting

Personally I would prefer it if old characters not appear but with Aang and Korra being the Avatar its a given she will appear.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Another rumor says by the start of the series, Korra already knows 3 elements.  It's up to Tenzin to teach her Air.  That'd be cool if the Book is called Air because of that.


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## SasuOna (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Another rumor says by the start of the series, Korra already knows 3 elements.  It's up to Tenzin to teach her Air.  That'd be cool if the Book is called Air because of that.



Are they still doing the book format with the elements?
If so that would make sense.


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## Saint_Spike (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Rumors say that Zuko and Azula are still alive (most likely, due to the comet) but Zuko is dying.



 I dont wanna see unsexy old Azula


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Remember what Aunt Wu said guys, Katara is supposed to die in her sleep after having her third great-grandchild.



SasuOna said:


> Are they still doing the book format with the elements?
> If so that would make sense.



Dunno, but it would make sense


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## Linkdarkside (Jul 21, 2010)

i think its great that a female is the main character is a animated series like this ,which is rare.


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## Platinum (Jul 21, 2010)

I really am looking forward to seeing the legacies of all of the Gaang.


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2010)

This seems more like a one-season thing if she knows the other elements already.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Rumors say that Zuko and Azula are still alive (most likely, due to the comet) but Zuko is dying.



Why would the comet need to have anything to do with that? They'd only be in their mid 80's. That's hardly unusual, especially in the Avatar universe.


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2010)

One season or not, I hope its good.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

I know, but what I'm saying is they're life force was probably strengthened.  They probably could live to be centenarians because of the comets.

Getting reports of Late 2010-Early 2011


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## Banhammer (Jul 21, 2010)

comet comes every hundred years, so I guess they'd have to be well past their 110's


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 21, 2010)

Shade said:


> This seems more like a one-season thing if she knows the other elements already.



seeing her learn all the other elements again would be boring and repetitive. Air is the only element that hasn't really been touched upon so naturally they'd want to focus on that...

If there are other seasons, i assume that it would focus more on whats going on in the world and how the Avatar will deal with it rather than focusing on training.


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

hopefully they'll have more avatar training stuff

shit like combining elements 

aang didn't have a lot of that going tbh, even in the final fight, it was just like ok have them all swirlin around me

maybe they'll come up with some more sophisticated avatar stuff for korra


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## Wesley (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I know, but what I'm saying is they're life force was probably strengthened.  They probably could live to be centenarians because of the comets.
> 
> Getting reports of Late 2010-Early 2011



Water benders have the moon and healing powers.  Wouldn't it only be natural for them to have long lives?


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## Jazzmatazz (Jul 21, 2010)

Skyscrapers. I friggin' called that.

I'm so stoked for this. Can't wait as more info drops.

Republic City? Sounds a bit like the town a superhero lives in. And these anti-bender revolts are even more intriguing.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

I was hoping Aang would have learned how to fire lightning, bloodbending, healing, metalbending, sandbending, and all that other good stuff.
Who knows?  Maybe he did later on.



Wesley said:


> Water benders have the moon and healing powers.  Wouldn't it only be natural for them to have long lives?



I wouldn't know, since we've only known of water benders dying by being killed and not by natural causes.


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## Quaero (Jul 21, 2010)

EV Spots

Official Nickelodeon Press Release


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 21, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Water benders have the moon and healing powers.  Wouldn't it only be natural for them to have long lives?



no...they live in sub zero temperatures and their diets consist mainly of whale blubber. Gran Gran was an anomaly.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> no...they live in sub zero temperatures and their diets consist mainly of whale blubber. Gran Gran was an anomaly.



They eat Tiger-Seals not whales


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok, so i assume that she will be a late teen, and will have already learned all but air by the start of the series. I predict it will be more peace keeping and less learning.


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## Platinum (Jul 21, 2010)

troublesum-chan said:


> hopefully they'll have more avatar training stuff
> 
> shit like combining elements
> 
> ...



Yeah we will probably get more specialization with the elements this time and unique uses for them.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 21, 2010)

Korra has mastered 3 elements eh? she's already better than Aang


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## Platinum (Jul 21, 2010)

It will be good though that they seem to be shifting towards more action since Korra knows three elements already and thus will needs less training.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> Korra has mastered 3 elements eh? she's already better than Aang



Except she's older than 12


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## Wesley (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> metalbending, sandbending



Toph's skill set is comes about because of her blindness and sensitive feet.  Aang shouldn't be able to learn that kind of stuff because he doesn't have the sense for it.

Face Bending should also be impossible for him, because he doesn't have Boomie's good looks.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Toph's blindness only gives her an advantage in metalbending, since she can sense the impurities in the metal.  Aang can do the same thing to a certain extent as he showed when training with her and his battle is Ozai.  

And Sandbending shouldn't really be that hard, considering there are multiple earthbenders that can do it.  It should be easier for Aang since he can bend the air as well.


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

i don't think being blind is a prereq for awesome earth bending. Of course Aang never got as good as Toph because toph had been doing earth bending since she was a child, and i think all aang got was a couple days and subsequent trial by fire in battle.

I think its less the blindness factor and more a time factor.


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2010)

> With three of the four elements under her belt (Earth, Water, and Fire), Korra seeks to master the final element, Air.



Just in case someone other than me didn't know this was confirmed.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

^That's what we were just discussing.:/


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2010)

I thought we were commenting on speculation. Anyway, where are the sources that you are getting your rumours from? I mean the late 2010 thing is debunked with the press release, so is the source all that trustworthy?


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

Yeah you would figure that Republic City would have a Chinese translation instead. It would sound better and fit in more with what the previous series established. That's about as critical as you'll ever get me to be regarding Avatar.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Has anyone read "The Legacy of Fire"?  It's a fanfic but it's pretty good.


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## Omolara (Jul 21, 2010)

Link, please?


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

It has reminded me of......Star Wars.

But Korra looks....AWESOME! 

Steampunk is my favorite thing in games/anime/manga/TV shows and everything.

I think I'm gonna love this show, she looks so strong and lithe. And the Star Wars-Vector Steampunk town is so cool


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Makes me wonder what the opening will be like.

Wait.

The Track Team will do the music, right?



> Has anyone read "The Legacy of Fire"? It's a fanfic but it's pretty good.



I did. It was awesome. One of the best portrayals of Azula and the Spirit World I've ever seen.

Anyone read ?


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Makes me wonder what the opening will be like.


Probably dark and very intense, with loads of steam.


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Omolara said:


> Link, please?







> Probably dark and very intense, with loads of steam.



That sounds dark and intense.

Well, as long as it's good as long as the Track Team does it, I don't care.


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

Taken from Zutarian idiot


> I don't think I'll be watching till it's finished. If it gets great reviews from the fans that I trust, I'll give it a chance (even with the stupid kataang kid) but I'm not ready to be heart broken again. Being pessimistic about TLA saved me a lot of that and the fandom is starting to show it's true colours again in the form of wank, so I'll be sitting here with my helmet hat until it's safe.



Wow, I hope she never tunes into the show. Talk about wank.


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

Man, Aang died pretty early, probably all the rich, vegan Fire Nation food. Tenzin sounds like a Fire Nation name, perhaps Aang and Katara lived in the Fire Nation most of the time, possibly siring a Fire Bender due to their time there. Or maybe they adopted, who knows. Also, that screencap.







Superstarseven said:


> Yeah you would figure that Republic City would have a Chinese translation instead. It would sound better and fit in more with what the previous series established. That's about as critical as you'll ever get me to be regarding Avatar.



I'd agree if Republic City would be named Minguo Chengshi or something,  most of the names for locations in AtLA were in Chinese.

As for the steampunk, could it be that Teo and his dad The Mechanist, or  the people they traveled with, founded the city?

I'd always thought how Benders would be accepted amongst the "normals" Also, RC will definately have closet Benders

As for the "normals", I'm hoping to see many of the badass variety able to take on one or many Benders.

Azula will be a toothless old witch, like that bloodbender 

Maybe Zuko will be the Iroh.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Anything from the Avatar world set in a Steampunk world with loads of dark themes (well, that's what I'm seeing) has to be spectacular.


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## SasuOna (Jul 21, 2010)

Shame Zutarans are hating but the minute they see some character that acts just like Zuko. They will be drawn back in. All positivity anyway

Korra looks cool you don't get too many female leads in cartoons nowadays.
I get a star wars vibe from the Republic city.


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Korra fanart _already_.


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

Another Zutarian idiot


> well, I was grinning like an idiot as I was reading...until the words "tenzin" and "aang's son" appeared in my line of sight. obvious Kataang kid. I can just hear the jeering now (honestly, going to bug me waaay more). .....hurrah......mike and bryan apparently live in a dream world where the first person you kiss is who you end up marrying. so much for the realism that they strived for the characters. -__-



What a moron. If Zuko had been the first guy that Katara had ever kissed, she certainly wouldn't have minded if those two ended up marrying eh? Who's living in the dream world. Oh I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this but *Tenzin* Gyatso is the name of the current Dalai Lama.


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Korra fanart _already_.


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## Mr. Obvious (Jul 21, 2010)

wait a second the series is only 70 years after avatar? and the new avatar is already in her late teens? wouldnt that mean aang died when he was in his 60's? pretty weird something tells me he didnt die naturally. maybe he was killed or sacrificed himself to protect something?


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

We don't know Korra's facial features so...

I highly doubt Aang died of natural causes

It's possible Azula also has her own sect that still doesn't recognize Zuko as the legitimate Fire Lord after 70 years.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 21, 2010)

Kataang is disgusting but I'm not gonna hate just because I'm a hater


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

Nah, Aang got fat on eggtarts, and had a cardiac infarction.


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Korra fanart _already_.



Huh. That wasn't suppose to happen. Oh well, thanks for posting the pic ReikaiDemon. It's superfly.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

That ZukoxKatara fan obviously has biased views. I agree with this: 


Superstarseven said:


> Another Zutarian idiot
> What a moron.* If Zuko had been the first guy that Katara had ever kissed, she certainly wouldn't have minded if those two ended up marrying eh?* Who's living in the dream world. Oh I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this but *Tenzin* Gyatso is the name of the current Dalai Lama.




I actually like the name 'Tenzin'. Sounds cool.


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Another Zutarian idiot
> 
> 
> What a moron. If Zuko had been the first guy that Katara had ever kissed, she certainly wouldn't have minded if those two ended up marrying eh? Who's living in the dream world. Oh I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this but *Tenzin* Gyatso is the name of the current Dalai Lama.



Wow. That was several kinds of pathetic(the Zutard not you). Some people just can't get over their butthurt. At least we (hopefully) won't have to put bs since they won't be watching.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Is it true Tenzin is the rival/evil person for Korra to fight?


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

Noooooooooooo


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Is it true Tenzin is the rival/evil person for Korra to fight?



He's Aang son and the one who's supposed to instruct her on Airbending.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> He's Aang son and the one who's supposed to instruct her on Airbending.



A lot of people are saying the word "tutored" was actually supposed to be "tortured". I have no idea why people would think that, because the sentence is:

"Aang's son, Tenzin, will tutor Korra in the ways of Airbending."

I was just asking encase others had better resources...


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> A lot of people are saying the word "tutored" was actually supposed to be "tortured". I have no idea why people would think that, because the sentence is:
> 
> "Aang's son, Tenzin, will tutor Korra in the ways of Airbending."
> 
> I was just asking encase others had better resources...



Nick released the statement, I trust them over "alot of people"


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## Platinum (Jul 21, 2010)

I am expecting one of the air temples will be repopulated with air benders.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Nick released the statement, I trust them over "alot of people"



I didn't know that...I just found all this out.

Has anyone seen this yet?

*Spoiler*: __ 




The creators of ?Avatar: The Last Airbender? say that the new spinoff series ?The Legend of Korra? will be more mature than the original show, but will still have the same sense of fun and adventure.

Nickelodeon, the network behind the original show, today announced that it will air the ?Avatar? spinoff series ?The Legend of Korra? (a working title) starting next year.

The first series took place in a world in which supernatural ?benders? have the ability to manipulate the elements of air, earth, fire and water, and focused on Aang, a young airbender who turned out to be the Avatar, a person capable of controlling all the elements. The new series takes place 70 years later in the same world and follows the new Avatar, a teen girl named Korra who has learned to bend earth, water and fire and seeks to master air under the tutelage of Aang?s son, Tenzin.

Earlier this summer, director M. Night Shyamalan released a live-action theatrical version of the first series called ?The Last Airbender? that was poorly received by critics, although it posted respectable numbers in early box office returns.

Michael DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko, the creators of ?Avatar: The Last Airbender? and ?The Legend of Korra? took the time to talk to Speakeasy today about the new series.

The Wall Street Journal: How did you come up with the idea for the spinoff?

Bryan Konietzko: When Mike and I first created ?Avatar: The Last Airbender? we always knew it would have an ending to it, that particular story. But as the show really took off, and found an audience all over the world, we knew that despite our intentions of ending that story there would probably be a time when Nickelodeon would come calling and want some more episodes?.When that time came we had this idea for jumping ahead and telling a story about the next Avatar, this girl Korra.

If there?s a new Avatar, that means Aang has passed on. If he died around age 70, isn?t that pretty young for an Avatar?

Konietzko: You gotta keep in mind that he was frozen in a state of suspended animation for 100 years, so he kind of burned up some of his extra Avatar time.

The new ?Avatar? is a woman. What inspired you to change the sex of the protagonist of the series?

Michael DiMartino: It?s not so much about changing because we had Avatar Kyoshi before Aang. We?d established that the Avatar can be male or female and we just thought let?s explore one of those more in depth, because Kyoshi was a popular character with a lot of fans and it seemed like a great opportunity to not retread what we?d done with Aang, who was a great hero, we all loved him, but we really wanted to try something different. And we have so many great female fans out there, who really responded to Katara in the first series, we thought we have the fan base who are really going to enjoy seeing the Avatar be a female.

Konietzko: Mike and I, we love those characters too, and we?ve encountered countless fans who are male who really like those characters too. We just don?t subscribe to the conventional wisdom that you can?t have an action series led by a female character. It?s kinda nonsense to us.

The one image that you released is Korra looking out on Republic City, where a lot of the new show take place. Tell me about that city.

Konietzko: That?s kind of a piece of concept art so when the show premieres next year it won?t look exactly like that but that?s the direction we?re headed. The first series was sort of a road show where every episode they were going to some new location. That was another new thing we wanted to do is root it in one big complex location but mainly one place. We were drawing inspiration from Shanghai in the 1920s and 30s and Hong Kong and even Western cities like Manhattan and even location-wise cities like Vancouver, a city that juts out on a peninsula or an island and has these big mountains around it.

Will we see characters from the previous series pop up?

DiMartino: I don?t want to give anything away, but rest assured there?s a definite link between the old series and this one.

Republic City is a city plagued by crime. There?s an anti-bender revolt. Does this new series deal with more mature themes?

Konietzko: Mike and I like a balance of tones. We never set out to make an overtly silly show or an overly serious dramatic show. We like dealing with all those things. It?s fair to say we?re dealing with some sophisticated things and the show is growing up a bit. But that said, we?re not in a calculated way trying to target another demographic. Even in the first series, it was about a world war and some pretty serious issues.

If Tenzin is Aang?s son, who is his mother?

DiMartino: [To Konietzko] We can say that, right? [To Speakeasy] It?s Katara. It?s not a huge surprise.

What did you guys think of the live-action version of ?The Last Airbender??

Konietzko: We?re just really focused on this new show right now, and kind of taking this off in its own direction and not concerning ourselves with that right now.

So you didn?t follow the casting controversy about the movie version of ?The Last Airbender??

Konietzko: We didn?t head up that film. We?re just happy to be back generating the original content in this mythology, which is what we do.

Would you like to bring a cartoon version of ?Avatar: The Last Airbender? to the big screen?

Konietzko: We would love to. I think Mike and I would absolutely love to do feature animation. Either another story, or it if worked out, one in the ?Avatar? world. We would be really excited.


Link:


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't know, it's not like trying to breed Buffalo.
Repopulating an entire culture might take a bit more than 70 years.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I don't know, it's not like trying to breed Buffalo.
> Repopulating an entire culture might take a bit more than 70 years.



If you are talking about the Airbenders, then Aang can easily Energybend them :s


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

> What did you guys think of the live-action version of “The Last Airbender”?
> 
> Konietzko: We’re just really focused on this new show right now, and kind of taking this off in its own direction and not concerning ourselves with that right now.
> 
> ...



Boom! Now don't reply back by writing that their response doesn't mean much of anything.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> If you are talking about the Airbenders, then Aang can easily Energybend them :s



Energybending isn't easy, Aang almost didn't succeed the only time he used it.


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## SasuOna (Jul 21, 2010)

Airbenders are gone Aang is not a monk and I doubt he would try and repopulate like that.

I'm not looking forward to seeing old Zuko or Azula.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Energybending isn't easy, Aang almost didn't succeed the only time he used it.



If he feels they have good, he would try it. Most likely with people he knows and trusts, like the mechanics in the Airtemple. He could turn them into real Airbenders, he knows them and knows they are pure.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> If he feels they have good, he would try it. Most likely with people he knows and trusts, like the mechanics in the Airtemple. He could turn them into real Airbenders, he knows them and knows they are pure.



Eh, that doesn't sound like something the creators would do.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Eh, that doesn't sound like something the creators would do.



But they did do it.

To the Firelord.

They won't be afraid to do it again, since the ability wasn't really used a lot, or shown a lot.

Edit:
Guys, post in the Toph FC!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

If you ask me, that's a terrible way to repopulate the Air Nomads.

It's like forcing people to convert, or infecting them with a virus. 

Remember, it's the way of life they had, not their powers that made them a distinct culture.

Plus it's just laaaaaaazy.

If the Air Nomads HAD to be revived, then the "good" way would have to be the natural way, people who seek to pursue the life of being an Air Nomad, and do it through hard work.

And it's not like the world needs Air Nomads, by their nature, they don't affect the world at large, and prefer to be isolated, sure, it's sad they're gone, but that's just how the world works, cultures die, cultures are born. It's just a very heavy grievance for Aang that his FAMILY isn't around anymore, than his culture isn't around any more.


----------



## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> If you ask me, that's a terrible way to repopulate the Air Nomads.
> 
> It's like forcing people to convert, or infecting them with a virus.
> 
> ...



I doubt Aang would force Airbending on people if they don't want it, but yeah, I pretty much agree.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> But they did do it.
> 
> To the Firelord.
> 
> ...



That was taking away his ability to save the world without Aang compromising his morals, and was more like a one time thing.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Who said he'd force them to be a Airbender.........?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

Plus, what's the point of learning to be peaceful, and enlightened if someone could just give it to you?

That should be something you learn by yourself, something you discover through personal experience.

Energybending imparts knowledge, sure, but does it impart experience that a person needs to learn on their own? And understanding of things a person should discover through their own eyes? It's just dirty to force a person to just HAVE your feelings, your personal triumphs, losses, and joys.

There would be no meaning in it, and it goes against how the Air Nomads learned.

Ozai was a special case, they needed to cripple his power with the technique, but it shouldn't serve to unnaturally bring an entire culture back through something no different than infection.

"Teaching" Airbending through Energybending would be a mere perversion of the discipline

And If Aang just gives Airbending to people, who's to say that they won't be a jerk with it?

Or that they would even be good with it?

It seems that Korra may be able to bring back Airbending, by rediscovering it from learning the means of it from Tenzin.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

So far the thing bugging me most is "Republic City"
I strongly suggest they change it.

City of Omashu
Ba Sing Se
Republic City


C'mon guys, where did that even come from!


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

^It's steampunk, futuristic.

In the Korra thread, I made the comparison of Jak and Daxter to Jak 2.


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

N??ps said:


> So far the thing bugging me most is "Republic City"
> I strongly suggest they change it.
> 
> City of Omashu
> ...


Yeah, it is a bit of the odd name out for a location, but maybe its english name serves it to make it distinct from the Bending cities.

Though, if that wasn't the case, I hope it has a non-English name by the time the series comes around


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't remember correctly...but did all Airbenders have to be Nomads? If they didn't, they wouldn't have to learn all that stuff. Desperate times call for desperate measures, if Aang wanted the culture to live and teach other Airbenders.


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## SasuOna (Jul 21, 2010)

jak and daxter 2 seems like an about right comparison. If its like technology vs bending type thing then that will be interesting as well.


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## Man in Black (Jul 21, 2010)

Republic City is a newly formed city, lacking any cultural background at all; why would it have a name like Ba Sing Se or Omashu?


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2010)

Generally, being an Air Nomad would put one on the right track of being an Airbender, because a person's nature is a far greater factor than just blood, in a Bending discipline. It goes hand in hand, I doubt bryke would make it so "easy" to bring back a culture that way. Merely energybending a culture back just has no meaning. And there's no telling that it would even take well that way.

Imagine just having a personal memento, laden with precious memories, what if you just give someone your memento? Or just a copy? Would that thing ever have a great impact or meaning to that person that it does to you? Basically, it would be devoid of heart.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

Man in Black said:


> Republic City is a newly formed city, lacking any cultural background at all; why would it have a name like Ba Sing Se or Omashu?



Well black, i do admire that direction you talking about. Like the city wants to be so different that they give it a unique name like that.

But it doesnt need hundreds of years of history to be called something like


> Minguo Chengshi


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Generally, being an Air Nomad would put one on the right track of being an Airbender, because a person's nature is a far greater factor than just blood, in a Bending discipline. It goes hand in hand, I doubt bryke would make it so "easy" to bring back a culture that way. Merely energybending a culture back just has no meaning. And there's no telling that it would even take well that way.



He could always just Energybend one or two people to just help bring back the culture.


----------



## Man in Black (Jul 21, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Well black, i do admire that direction you talking about. Like the city wants to be so different that they give it a unique name like that.
> 
> But it doesnt need hundreds of years of history to be called something like


Those cities you mentioned were probably named a very long time ago, probably when whatever asian language used by the Avatar world was still widely used. 

However, English is the most widely used language now; it's used by everyone and Republic City is a city accepting of every one.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

@Terra: That seems like a cop-out, I think Aang sees Airbending as apart of the Air Nomad culture, as sacred.  He'd probably try to do it the old fashioned way


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

Another Zutarian genius.


> I hate you Bryke with a burning passion. You just couldn't leave well enough alone. UGH!!!! Here's another thing they're going to rub into our face.



Hate away, dummy. The show was never about a romance between 2 people that had no interest in each other.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> @Terra: That seems like a cop-out, I think Aang sees Airbending as apart of the Air Nomad culture, as sacred.  He'd probably try to do it the old fashioned way



He'd have to breed with family.

He need at least one or two other families to bring the culture back using sex. 



> I hate you Bryke with a burning passion. You just couldn't leave well enough alone. UGH!!!! Here's another thing they're going to rub into our face.



Is that real.......?


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Not necessarily, if he has a kid or two with Katara, they could have kids with non-benders or any nation.  And so on and so forth.  It'll spread like wildfire.

The more sexy time the better.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I hate you Bryke with a burning passion. You just couldn't leave well enough alone. UGH!!!! Here's another thing they're going to rub into our face.
> 
> Is that real.......?



I honestly wish it weren't.
No one who's watched this show should ever feel slighted, it's a damn cartoon made to entertain. Really, that's it.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

Man in Black said:


> Those cities you mentioned were probably named a very long time ago, probably when whatever asian language used by the Avatar world was still widely used.
> 
> However, English is the most widely used language now; it's used by everyone and Republic City is a city accepting of every one.



Now that you mentioned it, the only cities with names were ancient.
But do you think that there was some sort of massive linguistic change in their world? Although they kept using the chinese characters?


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Not necessarily, if he has a kid or two with Katara, they could have kids with non-benders or any nation.  And so on and so forth.  It'll spread like wildfire.
> 
> The more sexy time the better.



What if it ends up Water or Earth, and not Air? He'd have to have another family of Airbenders completely not related to him. 



Superstarseven said:


> I honestly wish it weren't.
> No one who's watched this show should ever feel slighted, it's a damn cartoon made to entertain. Really, that's it.



I don't see why they'd be upset of a pairing anyway...


----------



## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

^That "What if" isn't really valid.  Nature has a way of correcting itself IRL, in Avatar if it felt the balance upset it would certainly deal with it.  
In the case it literally would be Aang correcting it.

Tbh, I was confused as to why so many people in Avatar were literate to begin with.  Especially with the socio-economic disparities.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

Does anyone recall the firebending avatar before roku? You know, the one shown for 2 seconds that one time


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> ^That "What if" isn't really valid.  Nature has a way of correcting itself IRL, in Avatar if it felt the balance upset it would certainly deal with it.
> In the case it literally would be Aang correcting it.
> 
> Tbh, I was confused as to why so many people in Avatar were literate to begin with.  Especially with the socio-economic disparities.



Energybending made the other elements to be bent. The Lion Turtle knew he obviously needed it...right? Its practically nature itself, since it deals with nature and all that.

Plus, he wouldn't be doing anything against nature correcting itself, he's helping it along to same an entire culture and people. Without Airbenders, the chain of the Avatar breaks, he can't just leave it to nature. 

Nature might not even correct it and bring them back, or they would have found other Airbenders during the first show when Aang disappeared, but they didn't. So I don't think Nature will step in to help.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

^If it were that easy, Aang could have populated the world with them.



N??ps said:


> Does anyone recall the firebending avatar before roku? You know, the one shown for 2 seconds that one time



Volcano Dan?  Yeah.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> ^If it were that easy, Aang could have populated the world with them.



No, he can't just do it to anyone. They have to be pure at heart and soul, like Aang. And he wouldn't have to do it to everyone. He could easily pick two or three people he knows and energy bend them.


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2010)

SS7, where are you finding these. I need to track them as well.

As for the energybending, we have no idea what energybending does beyond manipulating someone's chi. It suggests to me that you can disrupt it, but not change it's properties. You cannot make a non-bender a bender, or change someone's bending discipline. 

Also keep in mind that energybending is a strenuous and dangerous exercise. Aang would probably be unwilling, and possibly unable, to even attempt it unless the fate of the World was at stake.

I believe the Air Nomads return is almost self-evident. With the Fire Nation defeated, and especially with Aang's return, the zygote is there for the rebirth. The real problem is that Appa has nothing to spark a Sky Bison repopulation.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> SS7, where are you finding these. I need to track them as well.
> 
> As for the energybending, we have no idea what energybending does beyond manipulating someone's chi. It suggests to me that you can disrupt it, but not change it's properties. You cannot make a non-bender a bender, or change someone's bending discipline.
> 
> ...



Kind of like the dragons.


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## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> I believe the Air Nomads return is almost self-evident. With the Fire Nation defeated, and especially with Aang's return, the zygote is there for the rebirth. The real problem is that Appa has nothing to spark a Sky Bison repopulation.



Let's imagine this drawing is canon then.


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2010)

I have that, but not signed.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Let's imagine this drawing is canon then.



OHMYGOSH!

Momo babies look so cute!



> As for the energybending, we have no idea what energybending does beyond manipulating someone's chi. It suggests to me that you can disrupt it, but not change it's properties. You cannot make a non-bender a bender, or change someone's bending discipline.



Other elemental bending came from Energybending though. 
Through Energybending, came the other other elements to bend.



> Energybending is the ability to _bend life energy_. It predates the main four bending arts, as well as the _arrival_ of the Avatar and the formation of the Four Nations.
> 
> Before the arrival of the Avatar into the world and the separation of the four elements, _people bent the energy within themselves_.* They discovered the other four bending arts, and over time knowledge of Energybending was almost completely lost.* The last known keeper of the art was an ancient Lion Turtle, who later passed it down to Avatar Aang, who used it to remove Ozai's Firebending forever.



It led to the spiritual bending of their life energy so people began to bend separate elements instead of just Energybending. So it doesn't just remove your bending ability, he gave the world the Avatar and the Four Nations and their elemental bending people.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> No, he can't just do it to anyone. They have to be pure at heart and soul, like Aang. And he wouldn't have to do it to everyone. He could easily pick two or three people he knows and energy bend them.



Wait what?  Nowhere did it ever say that the recipient had to have a pure heart for any type of energy bending.  Now it's just fanfiction territory


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

but there are 2 dragons right


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Other elemental bending came from Energybending though.
> Through Energybending, came the other other elements to bend.
> 
> 
> ...



Bending came from the study and mimicry of Dragons, Sky Bison, Badger Moles, and the Moon.

Energybending was what people did in the era before the Avatar. Nothing has been said to link the eras, or suggest a throughline. People bending each other's chi, and then they began to use their chi to bend the elements. The Avatar fits into this somehow, but since Mike and Bryan decided to make a steampunk fantasy, we'll have to wait.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

troublesum-chan said:


> but there are 2 dragons right



both male


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

> Bending came from the study and mimicry of Dragons, Sky Bison, Badger Moles, and the Moon.
> 
> Energybending was what people did in the era before the Avatar. Nothing has been said to link the eras, or suggest a throughline. People bending each other's chi, and then they began to use their chi to bend the elements. The Avatar fits into this somehow, but since Mike and Bryan decided to make a steampunk fantasy, we'll have to wait.



Energybending led to seperate element bending. Dragons and Sky Bison were the original benders. It doesn't mean it came from them, merely that they were the_ first actual benders_ of the elements.
The way the humans learned of it was because they use to bend their life energy inside of themselves and that slowly changed and they could bend one element each, besides the Avatar of course.

So, original benders = Dragons, Sky Bison, Moon, Moles.

Humans learned of it how? = Through Energybending hundreds of years ago.

People could learn from the original benders _after_ they were given the power to bend the elements. They didn't _learn the skill_ off of them. 



Mider T said:


> Wait what?  Nowhere did it ever say that the recipient had to have a pure heart for any type of energy bending.  Now it's just fanfiction territory



If they aren't pure at heart, he'll get consumed with evil and be lost forever and _not be able to bend_ their life energy. The show stated so, so he couldn't just do it to anyone. Which is why I said he'd have to know them, and know if they have a pure heart.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> Bending came from the study and mimicry of Dragons, Sky Bison, Badger Moles, and the Moon.
> 
> Energybending was what people did in the era before the Avatar. Nothing has been said to link the eras, or suggest a throughline. People bending each other's chi, and then they began to use their chi to bend the elements. The Avatar fits into this somehow, but since Mike and Bryan decided to make a steampunk fantasy, we'll have to wait.



I assume you think making this a steampunk is not good for the series?


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## troublesum-chan (Jul 21, 2010)

whats with the big caucasian label


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## God (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> If they aren't pure at heart, he'll get consumed with evil and be lost forever and _not be able to bend_ their life energy. The show stated so, so he couldn't just do it to anyone. Which is why I said he'd have to know them, and know if they have a pure heart.



No, if their energy is bendable, then they lose their bending. That's why _their energy must be unbendable_. Nothing about being pure of heart iirc.


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## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> If they aren't pure at heart, he'll get consumed with evil and be lost forever and _not be able to bend_ their life energy. The show stated so, so he couldn't just do it to anyone. Which is why I said he'd have to know them, and know if they have a pure heart.



The show stated that he couldn't take away powers unless he had a pure heart, it never stated the converse.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Cubey said:


> No, if their energy is bendable, then they lose their bending. That's why _their energy must be unbendable_. Nothing about being pure of heart iirc.



If their pure energies is bendable (meaning if it is_ corruptible_) he cannot do it.

(Alright, I used the word "heart" instead of "pure energy". Shouldn't effect anything I'm saying, since they are both practically the same thing in the show. )

Also...I don't know what "iirc" means... 



> The show stated that he couldn't take away powers unless he had a pure heart, it never stated the converse.



If the people's energy is evil (or has the hesitation or slight chance of being evil) it will not work, and his own must be unbendable. He must be at good will.

Why would I mean he'd go about bending evil people into Airbenders? Of course the people would have to be good, but if they are evil, he could corrupt. Why take the chance when he can do it to people he knows are good?


----------



## Piekage (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Energybending led to seperate element bending. Dragons and Sky Bison were the original benders. It doesn't mean it came from them, merely that they were the_ first actual benders_ of the elements.
> The way the humans learned of it was because they use to bend their life energy inside of themselves and that slowly changed and they could bend one element each, besides the Avatar of course.
> 
> So, original benders = Dragons, Sky Bison, Moon, Moles.
> ...



Actually, the Lion Turtle said Aang's spirit would have to be unbendable in order to affect another's spirit. Although I guess it depends on what you consider a pure heart to be. This is what the turtle said.

"The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can touch the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light"


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Energybending led to seperate element bending. Dragons and Sky Bison were the original benders. It doesn't mean it came from them, merely that they were the_ first actual benders_ of the elements.
> The way the humans learned of it was because they use to bend their life energy inside of themselves and that slowly changed and they could bend one element each, besides the Avatar of course.
> 
> So, original benders = Dragons, Sky Bison, Moon, Moles.
> ...



This is all conjecture. The show specifically states that people learned bending from the animals. There is no canon link between energybending and elemental bending.

If you mean to say that the ability to use their chi in such a way was within them due to energybending, that's reasonable. 

The ability, yes. _Maybe_. The skill was learned from the animals.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Actually, the Lion Turtle said Aang's spirit would have to be unbendable in order to affect another's spirit. Although I guess it depends on what you consider a pure heart to be. This is what the turtle said.
> 
> "The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can touch the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light"



Spirit, Heart. I said I used the word "heart" for energy/spirit. Just switch the word around and you'll get what I mean. I think. 



Jove said:


> This is all conjecture. The show specifically states that people learned bending from the animals. There is no canon link between energybending and elemental bending.
> 
> If you mean to say that the ability to use their chi in such a way was within them due to energybending, that's reasonable.
> 
> The ability, yes. _Maybe_. The skill was learned from the animals.



But then Mike, Byan and the show states that bending _came from Energybending_ but they learned to master/better themselves with it, through animals.

EDIT:
 @ myself

Yes, Jove that was what I was getting at lol



> If you mean to say that the ability to use their chi in such a way was within them due to energybending, that's reasonable.



Yes, Energybending gave them the power to do it, they learn from the animals.


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## God (Jul 21, 2010)

Wait where did it say energybending came from animals?


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Wait where did it say energybending came from animals?



It doesn't say that. 

Animals had the ability to bend the elements first.


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## God (Jul 21, 2010)

Ok. I thought you were arguing energybending came from the animals, never mind


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Ok. I thought you were arguing energybending came from the animals, never mind



lol

Okay, sorry if I came off a little rude in that last post.


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## Burke (Jul 21, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Ok. I thought you were arguing energybending came from the animals, never mind



IT did!
Lion turtles


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## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

N??ps said:


> IT did!
> Lion turtles



No, the Turle was the last one alive to know about it, not the creator of it. 



> The last known keeper of the art was an ancient Lion Turtle, who later passed it down to Avatar Aang, who used it to remove Ozai's Firebending  forever.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> No, the Turle was the last one alive to know about it, not the creator of it.



Correct, he's the most ancient creature alive.


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## Noah (Jul 21, 2010)

.... 

I'm not reading back through all this. Someone explain to me what CRAZY NEW DEVELOPMENT there is that required more than 10 pages added in the last 24 hours.

I demand answers! :sokkaisawesomerthanyou


----------



## Mider T (Jul 21, 2010)

Noah said:


> ....
> 
> I'm not reading back through all this. Someone explain to me what CRAZY NEW DEVELOPMENT there is that required more than 10 pages added in the last 24 hours.
> 
> I demand answers! :sokkaisawesomerthanyou



Go back to the theatre, look for the Avatar: The Legend of Korra thread, it's all there.


----------



## Koi (Jul 21, 2010)

Bryke interview, about Korra!


Best part?


> *What did you guys think of the live-action version of ?The Last Airbender??*
> 
> *Konietzko:* We?re just really focused on this new show right now, and kind of taking this off in its own direction and not concerning ourselves with that right now.
> *
> ...


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 21, 2010)

your Slowpoke has evolved into a SlowKoi


----------



## Jersey Shore Jesus (Jul 21, 2010)

ok from what I just read everyone is argureing where bending came from. I do know Fire, came from Dragon, Earth, Badgermole. Thats it... Oh and Swaggerbending- Swaggersuar lol


----------



## Jazzmatazz (Jul 21, 2010)

Koi said:


> Bryke interview, about Korra!
> 
> 
> Best part?



They're pretty much like...

What movie? Don't know jack about a movie. But we would like to do our own feature length animated movie though.

And I would LOVE to see it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2010)

> What movie? Don't know jack about a movie. But we would like to do our own feature length animated movie though.
> 
> And I would LOVE to see it.



To me, that part showed how much they didn't like it....



RAGING BONER said:


> your Slowpoke has evolved into a SlowKoi


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Go back to the theatre, look for the Avatar: The Legend of Korra thread, it's all there.



_This_ is the Avatar thread. He doesn't have to go anywhere.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

If he wants to know everything about Korra is a shorter amount of pages, the Korra thread is what he should be looking at though...


----------



## uchia2000 (Jul 22, 2010)

Koi said:


> Bryke interview, about Korra!
> 
> 
> Best part?



It sounds like they hated The Last Airbender. It's been out for a few weeks now so I'm gonna assume they watched it.

I'm still waiting for a decent download to pop up though.


----------



## Noah (Jul 22, 2010)

Jove said:


> _This_ is the Avatar thread. He doesn't have to go anywhere.



Yeah, you fools!

....but I'll go look anyway.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

Guys, I think Mider T was trying to tell him if he wanted to know everything about Korra in a shorter amount of pages, since that seemed to have stopped him from reading, heading to the Korra thread was best......


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider also could have posted the limited amount of information that we have in one post. 


But he's Mider, and effort eats into a bananas freshness date.


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## Dimezanime88 (Jul 22, 2010)

You guys saw the pic and mini plot details? This sequel sounds promising.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

Depends....what image did you see? If its of a teenage girl standing before a city, yes, we have.


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## Noah (Jul 22, 2010)

Steampunk! Fuck yeah!

Wait. 70 years? And she's already learned three elements?

Well. Now we need to see why Aang died so young when compared to Roku and Kyoshi. And don't give me any crap about him being 112 already. Suspended animation doesn't count with me.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

Noah said:


> Steampunk! Fuck yeah!
> 
> Wait. 70 years? And she's already learned three elements?
> 
> Well. Now we need to see why Aang died so young when compared to Roku and Kyoshi. And don't give me any crap about him being 112 already. Suspended animation doesn't count with me.



Well, don't you think him being in an iceberg for 100 years would do _something_ to him?


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

Noah said:


> Suspended animation doesn't count with me.



but it does with Mike and Brian


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## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah I think Mike and Bryan were being ambiguous, something about the way he died would spoil the plot or cheapen it.  I believe he was killed or died of force of nature.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

spending 60 years with Katara anyone?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Yeah I think Mike and Bryan were being ambiguous, something about the way he died would spoil the plot or cheapen it.  I believe he was killed or died of force of nature.



Or maybe....just maybe....Katara killed him! :amazed

Or, Zuko's kid (whoever surpassed him) killed him in his sleep.


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## Sanity Check (Jul 22, 2010)

I thought Aang wasn't allowed to have kids?

Wasn't there some shit about him having to adhere to a jedi code of abstinence, or something like that?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> I thought Aang wasn't allowed to have kids?
> 
> Wasn't there some shit about him having to adhere to a jedi code of abstinence, or something like that?



That was when he was a Monk, he couldn't be a Monk and the Avatar.

Avatar Kyoshi and the others said so in the show, and the moment he took up the title of "Avatar" he wasn't a Monk anymore.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 22, 2010)

That's fine with me. Aang was never frozen like a Mammoth in the tundra, he was surrounded by his Spirit energy. Perhaps keeping that going for 100 years has a side effect.
If there's another explanation, I'll be fine with that too.

Just to add also, the Air Nomads aren't celibate. M&B never explained it in detail but they said that the nomads don't stay chaste their entire lives. Not sure how they pull it off but it isn't as if there's a village with an Air temple in the center. Air nomad kids are born from monks and nuns.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 22, 2010)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> I thought Aang wasn't allowed to have kids?
> 
> Wasn't there some shit about him having to adhere to a jedi code of abstinence, or something like that?



No, that horseshit was in the movie. The terrible terrible movie.

Nothing like that was ever once mentioned in the show. 

God, I hope M. Night chokes on his own ego. It's already grown big enough to push all the talent out of his brain. A little more and maybe it'll clog his throat.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> No, that horseshit was in the movie. The terrible terrible movie.
> 
> Nothing like that was ever once mentioned in the show.
> 
> God, I hope M. Night chokes on his own ego. It's already grown big enough to push all the talent out of his brain. A little more and maybe it'll clog his throat.



Aang was a Monk, Stab. He, by his law, couldn't have a family. 
Monks aren't suppose to have children, sex or many other things.

After he became Avatar, that was canceled out.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> That was when he was a Monk, he couldn't be a Monk and the Avatar.
> 
> Avatar Kyoshi and the others said so in the show, and the moment he took up the title of "Avatar" he wasn't a Monk anymore.



I'm starting to think that doesn't even apply to monks in the Avatar world, considering young monks start their training as infants.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I'm starting to think that doesn't even apply to monks in the Avatar world, considering young monks start their training as infants.



Monks are Monks. The show was going for real life Monks. That's why he doesn't use violence willingly. And it also says so in the show, remember his talk with the Airbender Avatar and Kyoshi?

You can't be called a Monk, fantasy or not, without following the law that makes you a Monk.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> That was when he was a Monk, he couldn't be a Monk and the Avatar.
> 
> Avatar Kyoshi and the others said so in the show, and the moment he took up the title of "Avatar" he wasn't a Monk anymore.



Good point.  Bah.  I'm not remembering the series too well.  Time to re-watch.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> No, that horseshit was in the movie. The terrible terrible movie.
> 
> Nothing like that was ever once mentioned in the show.
> 
> God, I hope M. Night chokes on his own ego. It's already grown big enough to push all the talent out of his brain. A little more and maybe it'll clog his throat.



That's what I was thinking, it was in the movie.  

I love how the animated series is already beginning to discredit Shyamalan's work.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

Guys, the movie said the Avatar couldn't have family. They mixed it around.

Monks aren't suppose to have family or children. But the moment Aang became the Avatar, that changed. He couldn't, by his new role, go by Monkish laws anymore.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Monks are Monks. The show was going for real life Monks. That's why he doesn't use violence willingly. And it also says so in the show, remember his talk with the Airbender Avatar and Kyoshi?
> 
> You can't be called a Monk, fantasy or not, without following the law that makes you a Monk.



The avatar world doesn't follow real life since it is a kids show and it can't address certain things (when Aang was training with Pathik, they skipped the chakra that deals with pleasure because...well where it's located and what it's associated with).  Likewise they most like aren't celibate (at least not the lower monks) because there were plenty of young airbenders


----------



## Dimezanime88 (Jul 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Monks are Monks. The show was going for real life Monks. That's why he doesn't use violence willingly. And it also says so in the show, remember his talk with the Airbender Avatar and Kyoshi?



Did you find it interesting as well when he killed that wasp-like creature in the desert when it was taking away Momo? He was all worried about killing the Firelord because he's a human being and under monk laws he isn't supposed to kill living things, but yet he does that.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

Dimezanime88 said:


> Did you find it interesting as well when he killed that wasp-like creature in the desert when it was taking away Momo? He was all worried about killing the Firelord because he's a human being and under monk laws he isn't supposed to kill living things, but yet he does that.



Debatable, that wasp wasn't confirmed as dead, and he does say in the finale that he's never killed a living thing.  But he wasn't a fully realized monk nor Avatar yet so I get where you're coming from.


----------



## Dimezanime88 (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Debatable, that wasp wasn't confirmed as dead, and he does say in the finale that he's never killed a living thing.  But he wasn't a fully realized monk nor Avatar yet so I get where you're coming from.



Did you see how determined Aang was in making sure that wasp got what it deserved? You telling me it survived an attack like that? And I could've sworn it was sliced into two... but I gotta double-check on that.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Debatable, that wasp wasn't confirmed as dead, and he does say in the finale that he's never killed a living thing.  But he wasn't a fully realized monk nor Avatar yet so I get where you're coming from.



Didn't he cut the Buzzard Wasp completely in half, even if it didn't die immediantly I don't see it living for very much longer after that...


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

He did a slice-like airbending move, but the creature was just knocked down.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> ^That "What if" isn't really valid.  Nature has a way of correcting itself IRL, in Avatar if it felt the balance upset it would certainly deal with it.
> In the case it literally would be Aang correcting it.
> 
> Tbh, I was confused as to why so many people in Avatar were literate to begin with.  Especially with the socio-economic disparities.


I assume, like China, China had the highest literacy rates of the ancient world. You just HAD to learn how to read in ancient China. Though, what confuses me, is how dialects between countries aren't different, or how the written language is pretty homogeneous. Although, there are instances where they use seal script Chinese and Traditional Chinese.

I suppose accents and slang would count, i.e., the Swamp Benders American Southern accents and vernacular.


Jove said:


> SS7, where are you finding these. I need to track them as well.
> 
> As for the energybending, we have no idea what energybending does beyond manipulating someone's chi. It suggests to me that you can disrupt it, but not change it's properties. You cannot make a non-bender a bender, or change someone's bending discipline.
> 
> ...


Yeah, there's no telling it wouldn't be lethal on the subject, how dangerous would it be to a person not compatible with it? Would their spirit be damaged?

And the biggest thing is, it's just lazy writing to make Aang simply bend back an entire culture into existence, it would be meaningless, and belittling of the genocide of his people. There's also no telling if anyone would use Airbending for a good cause, someone could abuse it, learning it the old fashion way would be safer.

As for Appa...Well, most animals are hybrids, so....



Nøøps said:


> both male


Maybe Avatar dragons are like Eastern dragons in "real life", extreme libido, and genetic viability with absolutely everything.


Jove said:


> _This_ is the Avatar thread. He doesn't have to go anywhere.


Yes, we are the Lion Turtle of NF when it comes to Avatar threads 


1mmortal 1tachi said:


> I thought Aang wasn't allowed to have kids?
> 
> Wasn't there some shit about him having to adhere to a jedi code of abstinence, or something like that?


It's more like having attachment hinders himself as the Avatar, plus, there's no law of celibacy explicitly stated in the show.


Terra Branford said:


> Monks are Monks. The show was going for real life Monks. That's why he doesn't use violence willingly. And it also says so in the show, remember his talk with the Airbender Avatar and Kyoshi?
> 
> You can't be called a Monk, fantasy or not, without following the law that makes you a Monk.


Not all Monks are the same, you're wandering into stereotype territory again....


Terra Branford said:


> Guys, the movie said the Avatar couldn't have family. They mixed it around.
> 
> Monks aren't suppose to have family or children. But the moment Aang became the Avatar, that changed. He couldn't, by his new role, go by Monkish laws anymore.


...

The hell is Monkish?

From what I gather, celibacy isn't a requirement for Air Nomads, but perhaps they have limits on breeding, perhaps to keep their population to a small, safely manageable number.

They definitely have laws of conduct pertaining to violence and diet, however, celibacy is still a question.


----------



## Dimezanime88 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hmm, yea, the stream I just viewed seems like he knocked it out. Then again, it wasn't a good quality stream.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

I've thought about it and it's possible Aang dies early not because of the freeze, but because he was in the Avatar State continuously for 100 years.  It could've used up alot of his life energy.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I've thought about it and it's possible Aang dies early not because of the freeze, but because he was in the Avatar State continuously for 100 years.  It could've used up alot of his life energy.


And then there's the crap he's been through, like getting fried by Azula

Also, Aang pigged out on eggtarts


----------



## Man in Black (Jul 22, 2010)

It would be awesome if Aang was assassinated by the Anti-Bending revolters, that'd set them up as villains pretty nicely me thinks.


----------



## Kno7 (Jul 22, 2010)

Holy crap. After 12 pages of reading, going through the new info on Korra, a pointless discussion on Energybending and more, I can finally take a breather.

A couple of things come to mind:
- Republic city was constructed _very_ quickly if the series takes place 70 years after.
- It's weird that Korra has already learned 3 elements while she is still a teen. In the Avatar versus the Firelord, we see Roku come back to the Fire Nation as a fully fledged Avatar after what looks like 10+ years at least.

More on topic: I don't recall the series stating anywhere that Monks have to be celibate. Besides, by the abundance children at the temple when Aang/Roku were young, and the seclusion of the temples from the rest of the world, it would be plausible that Monks don't adhere to celibacy.
And even if they did it'd mean that they find their kids _somewhere_, at orphanages in other nations or whatnot. Which contradicts the debate about the need of Energybending: it's more of how you're brought up, and your connection to your individual spirituality that makes you a bender. If Aang needed to repopulate the Airbenders, he'd do so by the way of the Monks: either procreate and teach his kids, either gather some children and raise them at an Air temple like how he was raised. No need for energy bending.

I call that Aang taught his son Tenzin the ways of the monk, so he could carry on the tradition of being a Airbender, while if he still had other kids, they are possibly air or other types of benders.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 22, 2010)

With technological advances and bending, perhaps city planning takes a bit faster than it would in our world.

Also - 

Zutara fan going nuts


> Why are there any Zuatara fans suprised, shocked, or hurt at a *Kataang spawn of sparkly rainbow, boring epic fail?* Bryke hates Zutara and *hates us as a fandom*. Probably made the character just to spite Zutara.
> 
> Now, now maybe tough Korra will fall in love with Tenzin's son Kataangooboobo and live happily ever after.
> 
> You know, give us the Taang we wanted in a horribly mutated fashion.



If they do hate you as part of the fandom, it's because you write garbage like this. Now if there were any coupling that wasn't a possibility, Toph and Aang together beat Zutara. How could anyone find a romantic link between those two?


----------



## SasuOna (Jul 22, 2010)

Personally I think with a female lead who is supposed to be "independent" I doubt romance will be in the cards for Korra.


----------



## Omolara (Jul 22, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> With technological advances and bending, perhaps city planning takes a bit faster than it would in our world.
> 
> Also -
> 
> ...



Because opposites attract... rather than people who are actually compatible. Zuko was totally trying to seduce her with her mother's necklace so that she would give him Aang that night with the pirates. They had a connection in Ba Sing Se!!

Only, that so-called connection was broken the minute Aang showed up and Katara just left. That was actually when I stopped liking the idea of Zutara. Well, once Mai was introduced as the girl who'd already been there, Zutara potential just kind of went down the drain. 

Taang makes absolutely no sense beyond them both being cute twelve year-olds. If you stop there and never actually consider the characters, then yeah, Taang is "obvious". 

And then there's the argument that "you just don't marry someone because you kissed them at 12". You do if you've loved that person since you first opened your eyes and she obviously came to love you back. This is a fantasy world where people can get married as early as 16. Zuko and Mai had a connection when they were 9 and 10, that apparently grew up until he was banished, and then never actually died. 

They apparently seem to think the same of Mai because a love connection between Zuko and Katara at 16 and 14 is meant to last for all time. Whereas the one between Mai and Zuko is just as shallow as Kataang. 
Why, because she wasn't all motherly toward him the way that Katara is toward everyone? Katara is compassionate, even toward her enemies. That doesn't mean she wants to do them all. 
Mai showed us in "The Beach" that despite her mother's best efforts at snuffing out all of her passion for life, Zuko is the one thing she can't help but care about. 

Despite JKR level clues, they just won't let go. They're like Harmonians. 
Yeah, Bryke hates the fandom.  No, they hate you because you hate their labor of love while daring to call yourselves fans.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

SasuOna said:


> Personally I think with a female lead who is supposed to be "independent" I doubt romance will be in the cards for Korra.



If she's anything like the cold-fish Earth Bender Avatar that painted her face scarily, no way in hell is she getting a man.

P.S. The bounty hunter woman with the giant weasel rat thing; was she in the movie?


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

Mai's mother treated her poorly?  I thought Mai's apathy was just part of her personality.


----------



## Omolara (Jul 22, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Mai's mother treated her poorly?  I thought Mai's apathy was just part of her personality.



It's a result of her mother being so strict. Having to be seen (if necessary) and not heard all her life did a number on her personality. Everything was for the sake of her father's career. So, while it wasn't outright abusive in the way that most tend to think, it was still harmful.


----------



## Superrazien (Jul 22, 2010)

I think this thread and the Korra thread should just be combined into one. Since talk about Korra will always lead back to AtLA.


----------



## Dbgohan08 (Jul 22, 2010)

There's going to be a spinoff of Avatar with a new avatar. Some girl who learns airbending from aang's son. In the final episode of the original avatar aang was told he wouldn't be reincarnated yet in the spinoff this girl is the avatar.


----------



## Piekage (Jul 22, 2010)

Wesley said:


> If she's anything like the cold-fish Earth Bender Avatar that painted her face scarily, no way in hell is she getting a man.
> 
> P.S. The bounty hunter woman with the giant weasel rat thing; was she in the movie?



Jun? Nope. She only appears in the series twice, and as awesome as she is, she's pretty easy to cut from the movie.



> I think this thread and the Korra thread should just be combined into one. Since talk about Korra will always lead back to AtLA.



Ditto.



> There's going to be a spinoff of Avatar with a new avatar. Some girl who learns airbending from aang's son. In the final episode of the original avatar aang was told he wouldn't be reincarnated yet in the spinoff this girl is the avatar.



Appreciate the heads up, but everyone hear already knows this.


----------



## Snakety69 (Jul 22, 2010)

Dbgohan08 said:


> In the final episode of the original avatar aang was told he wouldn't be reincarnated yet in the spinoff this girl is the avatar.





Who said that and when? I just recently watched the final episode, and I don't ever recall that being said.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 22, 2010)

Dbgohan08 said:


> There's going to be a spinoff of Avatar with a new avatar. Some girl who learns airbending from aang's son. In the final episode of the original avatar aang was told he wouldn't be reincarnated yet in the spinoff this girl is the avatar.



Are you responding to someone in particular?
No offense pal, but we all pretty much know this.
Uhh...thank you for coming by though. Feel free to add anything when the show starts airing.


----------



## Dbgohan08 (Jul 22, 2010)

Sorry i put that in the wrong thread plus i just mentioned it so people would know what i was talking about. About the reincarnation thing. I slightly remember it being said because since he's basically saved the world from the fire nation which was the point of the series and now there's world peace. There is no more need for an avatar therefore he is the last one. It might not be the final episode it might be another episode.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 22, 2010)

Dbgohan08 said:


> Sorry i put that in the wrong thread plus i just mentioned it so people would know what i was talking about. About the reincarnation thing. I slightly remember it being said because since he's basically saved the world from the fire nation which was the point of the series and now there's world peace. There is no more need for an avatar therefore he is the last one.



Uh...no. That's not how it works.

The Avatar is part of the world. He's there to help maintain balance, his presence is what helps maintain peace in the world. In fact, the Avatar's absence was the very reason the war was able to proliferate the way it did. Saying that because the wars over, there's no more need for an Avatar is completely missing the entire point of his purpose.

So, you take away the Avatar cause the war is over... and someone starts a new war cause there's no Avatar to stop them. 

The Avatar isn't going anywhere. There where Avatar's long before the war, there will be Avatar's long after the war, and nothing of Aang being the last was ever even remotely mentioned in the show.


----------



## Piekage (Jul 22, 2010)

Dbgohan08 said:


> Sorry i put that in the wrong thread plus i just mentioned it so people would know what i was talking about. About the reincarnation thing. I slightly remember it being said because since he's basically saved the world from the fire nation which was the point of the series and now there's world peace. There is no more need for an avatar therefore he is the last one. It might not be the final episode it might be another episode.



Stab said it best. Unless Aang is killed in the Avatar State (not bloody likely), then there will be a new Avatar after he dies.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Unless Aang is killed in the Avatar State (not bloody likely)



Azula woulda killed Aang in the avatar state if not for Katara's special oasis healing water...

Avatar state is not that badass that a good bender or some other skilled normie can't bring down.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Jul 22, 2010)

Dbgohan08 said:


> There's going to be a spinoff of Avatar with a new avatar. Some girl who learns airbending from aang's son. In the final episode of the original avatar aang was told he wouldn't be reincarnated yet in the spinoff this girl is the avatar.




i could not resist  :ho


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 22, 2010)

Omolara said:


> Taang makes absolutely no sense beyond them both being cute twelve  year-olds. If you stop there and never actually consider the characters,  then yeah, Taang is "obvious".



They have a name for that trope, it's called Toyshipping, and I think it  borders a bit on voyeuristic pedophilia...

Also, isn't it just TICKLISH how people feel like they have such a sense  of ENTITLEMENT to AtLA? 

...

 Yeah, those fans, Zutarians or not, really piss me off how they  think it's THEIR show, and that the animators and writers should cater  to THEM, or else they claim that the creators are out to slight them, and  then boycott it like it would matter. So puerile...


----------



## Piekage (Jul 22, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> Azula woulda killed Aang in the avatar state if not for Katara's special oasis healing water...


I knew someone would post this. I'm aware Azula almost killed Aang, just as I'm sure your aware that Aang wasn't trying to fight anyone and was more concerned with mastering his last chakra, at which point Azula took advantage and attacked. Azula would stand no change against the Avatar State in a direct confrontation.


RAGING BONER said:


> Avatar state is not that badass that a good bender or some other skilled normie can't bring down.


It really is. Ozai with the Comet's power couldn't touch him, and Ozai's widely acknowledged as the one of the best (if not the best) non-Avatar bender in the series. There's no named character in Avatar that stands a chance against the Avatar State in a direct confrontation.


----------



## Kno7 (Jul 22, 2010)

^Which is why I find the avatar state is so Haxxed. I hope Korra can't access the avatar state easily, just like Aang.

I'm wondering if we'll see more original uses of Waterbending in LoK. With Aang we got a taste of some pretty sweet Airbending moves that I'm sure most airbenders didn't know. I just hope Korra's fighting style is different from Katara's.


----------



## Eki (Jul 22, 2010)

like some breakdancing shit


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 22, 2010)

Kno7 said:


> ^Which is why I find the avatar state is so Haxxed.



That's kind of the point.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

Meh, I bet 2 Ozai level guys coulda brought that little punk down...


----------



## Darth (Jul 22, 2010)

hell no.

Ten at least.

Did you see what Aang was doing to Ozai's counter attacks? He was dispersing them with *minimal effort*.

And on top of that, Ozai was on the run the entire time.

No, 2 Ozai's would not have stopped Avatar State Aang.


----------



## Shade (Jul 22, 2010)

We should keep this the main Avatar thread. Burn the other one, I say.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

Probably the best times to kill an Avatar is when they're in training.  A water- bender Avatar that hadn't yet learned Earth Bending would probably be the most vunerable.  See if you can't trigger the Avatar state while there was minimal water to be had and you could probably beat him/her.  Next easiest would be an Earth bending Avatar in transit to learn Firebending.  If you caught him on a wooden boat, he'd be screwed.

(Of course, the fact that Aang froze water by using the Avatar State may imply that personal knowledge is not altogether needed to perform different kinds of bending.)


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

OOOOOORRRRRR, you could simply bust a cap in their ass...

I'm sure a steampunk world has to have a few fire arms laying around.


and nothing leads me to believe that they are bullet timers or bullet proof.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> OOOOOORRRRRR, you could simply bust a cap in their ass...
> 
> I'm sure a steampunk world has to have a few fire arms laying around.
> 
> ...



They shoot lighting at eachother.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

and if they don't know how to redirect they're fucked.


also, they do a fancy little dance before they can shoot lightning


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Probably the best times to kill an Avatar is when they're in training.  A water- bender Avatar that hadn't yet learned Earth Bending would probably be the most vunerable.  See if you can't trigger the Avatar state while there was minimal water to be had and you could probably beat him/her.  Next easiest would be an Earth bending Avatar in transit to learn Firebending.  If you caught him on a wooden boat, he'd be screwed.
> 
> (Of course, the fact that Aang froze water by using the Avatar State may imply that personal knowledge is not altogether needed to perform different kinds of bending.)



The Avatar State automatically activates in times of dire stress.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

<~~~~Officially Anti-Bender


They need to be locked away so they can't harm anyone else


----------



## SasuOna (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm just happy Korra is a water bender primarily.
If Bryke doesn't want another shitstorm from the fandom in regards to the last show. I suggest they in no way do any ship tease and just leave the trolling alone.

Not that I care but I could do without all the zutaran tears and such from crazy shippers who want a crack pairing to be the OTP.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> <~~~~Officially Anti-Bender
> 
> 
> They need to be locked away so they can't harm anyone else



I lol'd at this, because of what Bender means in Brit-slang and your avatar.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> The Avatar State automatically activates in times of dire stress.



Not automatically, otherwise the times that Avatars have been killed would have broken the chain.  It probably wouldn't proc if a mortal blow had already been struck.

And yeah, I can appreciate the anti-bender stance.  Lots of people hate Jedi, Wizards/Witches, Vampires, Werewolves, etc. etc. etc.


----------



## Quaero (Jul 22, 2010)

higher resolution of the first Korra image.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

Quaero said:


> higher resolution of the first Korra image.



She's muscular.  Small chest?  Could probably pass for a man if she wanted?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Not automatically, otherwise the times that Avatars have been killed would have broken the chain.  It probably wouldn't proc if a mortal blow had already been struck.
> 
> And yeah, I can appreciate the anti-bender stance.  Lots of people hate Jedi, Wizards/Witches, Vampires, Werewolves, etc. etc. etc.



Lemme rephrase that, it automatically comes on for Avatars that aren't fully realized.  It's a reflex that can be controlled.  If a fully-realized Avatar absolutely knew that he or she couldn't win, they'd probably get out of the Avatar right before death to continue the cycle.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 22, 2010)

Wesley said:


> She's muscular.  Small chest?  Could probably pass for a man if she wanted?



She's fit as hell..wonder if she is good at hand-to-hand combat..? 

Also we don't see her chest so the jury's still out on that..


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

Wesley said:


> And yeah, I can appreciate the anti-bender stance.  Lots of people hate Jedi, Wizards/Witches, Vampires, Werewolves, etc. etc. etc.



well if you think about it these people are responsible for a war that lasted a century, caused genocide and untold destruction as well as holding back the worlds progress by keeping the majority of the population dependant on a few "magic" users...

they are a detriment to the world; no wonder a modern city like Republic city, which is trying to better itself, wants to be rid of these malignant relics.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> She's fit as hell..wonder if she is good at hand-to-hand combat..?
> 
> Also we don't see her chest so the jury's still out on that..



She's as flat as a board.  I can tell.  

(Everyone knows Earth Nation has the biggest.)


----------



## SasuOna (Jul 22, 2010)

For the record I'm anti-bender.........always doing whatever they want and looking down on people who use technology. Their no better than the Jedi


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> well if you think about it these people are responsible for a war that lasted a century, caused genocide and untold destruction as well as holding back the worlds progress by keeping the majority of the population dependant on a few "magic" users...
> 
> they are a detriment to the world; no wonder a modern city like Republic city, which is trying to better itself, wants to be rid of these malignant relics.



The Fire Nation was all about Progress and was totally moving things forward by killing the Air Nomads and Water Benders.  Earth Nation proved a bit tough though.  All that delicious mineralized breast milk.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

Wesley said:


> The Fire Nation was all about Progress and was totally moving things forward by killing the Air Nomads and Water Benders.  Earth Nation proved a bit tough though.  All that delicious mineralized breast milk.



It was said because the Fire Nation is like it's element, wanting to cover and destroy everything then make it grow again.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 22, 2010)

SasuOna said:


> For the record I'm anti-bender.........always doing whatever they want and looking down on people who use technology. Their no better than the Jedi


yeah, Jedi Bender scum 



Wesley said:


> The Fire Nation was all about Progress and was totally moving things forward by killing the Air Nomads and Water Benders.  Earth Nation proved a bit tough though.  All that delicious mineralized breast milk.



true true, I do give props to the fire Nation for using their power to help not only their own people, but the rest of the world.


----------



## Piekage (Jul 22, 2010)

SasuOna said:


> I'm just happy Korra is a water bender primarily.
> If Bryke doesn't want another shitstorm from the fandom in regards to the last show. I suggest they in no way do any ship tease and just leave the trolling alone.
> 
> Not that I care but I could do without all the zutaran tears and such from crazy shippers who want a crack pairing to be the OTP.



Bryke seemed to enjoy pissing off fans that took shipping way to seriously, if that mock "Book 4 - Air" is any indication.

The more rabid fans of the show *coughzutarianscough* are already up in arms against Bryke anyway.. Considering the reactions of some of this people, I'm glad Katara/Aang is canon. The delusional rants in that link are awe inspiring.



> The Fire Nation was all about Progress and was totally moving things forward by killing the Air Nomads and Water Benders. Earth Nation proved a bit tough though. All that delicious mineralized breast milk.



Mass murder makes everything better.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 22, 2010)

I love shipping wars.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 22, 2010)

Shade said:


> We should keep this the main Avatar thread. Burn the other one, I say.


We shall wait for the comet 


RAGING BONER said:


> OOOOOORRRRRR, you could simply bust a cap in their ass...
> 
> I'm sure a steampunk world has to have a few fire arms laying around.
> 
> ...


Given that it's a fantasized "Middle Earth China" Gun powder should be invented.


RAGING BONER said:


> and if they don't know how to redirect they're fucked.
> 
> 
> also, they do a fancy little dance before they can shoot lightning


Depends on what kind of gun they would have available, if it's like a musket, good luck hitting anything.


Quaero said:


> higher resolution of the first Korra image.


Still reminds me of...

*Spoiler*: __ 










Wesley said:


> She's as flat as a board.  I can tell.
> 
> (Everyone knows Earth Nation has the biggest.)


Even Toph showed impressive developing mamaries  


Wesley said:


> The Fire Nation was all about Progress and was totally moving things forward by killing the Air Nomads and Water Benders.  Earth Nation proved a bit tough though.  All that delicious mineralized breast milk.


 Calcium through the roof...


----------



## Linkdarkside (Jul 22, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Bryke seemed to enjoy pissing off fans that took shipping way to seriously, if that mock "Book 4 - Air" is any indication.
> 
> The more rabid fans of the show *coughzutarianscough* are already up in arms against Bryke anyway.


----------



## Piekage (Jul 22, 2010)

Linkdarkside said:


> funniest thing i read in weeks.



Yeah, them Zutarians are silly folk.

Tempted to post Book 4 Air as a joke.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

Linkdarkside said:


> funniest thing i read in weeks.



Has there ever been a fanbase so unwilling to accept reality?


----------



## Shade (Jul 22, 2010)

Someone tell me turning capslock off is disabled on that site. Otherwise, I fear for the lives of Mike and Bryan.


----------



## Superrazien (Jul 22, 2010)

So me and my friend were thinking of how Korra could last as long as AtLA when shes already so powerful. I personally think this show needs to deal a lot more with the spirit world, and spirits in general. Maybe since the world is modernizing we will have more angry spirits, ect.


----------



## Omolara (Jul 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> They have a name for that trope, it's called Toyshipping, and I think it  borders a bit on voyeuristic pedophilia...
> 
> Also, isn't it just TICKLISH how people feel like they have such a sense  of ENTITLEMENT to AtLA?
> 
> ...



You may have something there...

Too bad Toph was all about the meat and sarcasm guy. 

I just don't get the people who do that. I can see being disappointed with the canon, but not to the point where something as trivial as preferred couples would be taken as a personal affront. It's supremely arrogant (and just a tiny bit crazy) to believe that the creators owe you anything but perhaps a good story just because you tuned in and liked something about it. They had a vision, and it didn't involve wish fulfillment or self-insertion for all. 

I'm just one of those people who likes canon, and accepts it even if I don't get everything I want. Then again, I've never had a ship sunk because I love the story for the story's sake, and that love doesn't depend on any one element.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 22, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> So me and my friend were thinking of how Korra could last as long as AtLA when shes already so powerful. I personally think this show needs to deal a lot more with the spirit world, and spirits in general.* Maybe since the world is modernizing we will have more angry spirits*, ect.


*gasp* A Miyazaki favorite! 



Omolara said:


> You may have something there...
> 
> Too bad Toph was all about the meat and sarcasm guy.
> 
> ...


Nah, fool, Toph is all wet for Suki 

Personally, I feel indifferent about KatAang, a part of me says it's kinda cliched that the lead guy and lead girl hooked up, but hey, it's not my show, and it works in Bryke's canon. They're nuts if they let something like who sticks their baby bender into the other ruin their enjoyment of one of the best original American cartoon to come around as of late, that doesn't play up the animation age ghetto.


----------



## Burke (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Has there ever been a fanbase so unwilling to accept reality?



"...HALF THE FANBASE..."
Zutarians think theyre funny.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

> So me and my friend were thinking of how Korra could last as long as AtLA when shes already so powerful. I personally think this show needs to deal a lot more with the spirit world, and spirits in general. Maybe since the world is modernizing we will have more angry spirits, ect.



That would be pretty neat, and they would be going down the same road their inspiration too. 

I am not pleased by the direction of Toph talk. Change it now!


----------



## Chee (Jul 22, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> So me and my friend were thinking of how Korra could last as long as AtLA when shes already so powerful. I personally think this show needs to deal a lot more with the spirit world, and spirits in general. Maybe since the world is modernizing we will have more angry spirits, ect.



Yea, that would be interesting.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 22, 2010)

So I was reading Bryke were considering Appa having a litter in the last scene of the series, making her a girl and pregnant all along.  The idea was scrapped.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 22, 2010)

Mider T said:


> So I was reading Bryke were considering Appa having a litter in the last scene of the series, making her a girl and pregnant all along.  The idea was scrapped.


I wouldn't have minded that.

Appa seemed too gentle, so I would have fallen for the girl. It would take some really hard thinking though, to convince me she was pregnant....


----------



## Kno7 (Jul 23, 2010)

I distinctively remember Aang calling Appa "boy" though


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

^Yeah, they were gonna make so Aang was surprised.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 23, 2010)

Toph, I thought, liked Sokka.  Even if she did, it was one-sided, since he had tons of girls his own age throwing themselves at him.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

Yeah she liked him.  But maybe, with time, he grew to like her too


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Toph, I thought, liked Sokka.  Even if she did, it was one-sided, since he had tons of girls his own age throwing themselves at him.


Hey man, no one can resist Sokka, not even the guys  He just makes it unfair to everyone in  the game 

But Toph moved on, and found the warm, normie light of TooKi pek


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 23, 2010)

Looks like the Track Team is on board for "Korra".

Can I get a "Hell Yeah!"


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

Wonder how much episodes will cost to make this time?

On average, each episode of Avatar took about a million buckaroos to make


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2010)

Shade said:


> Someone tell me turning capslock off is disabled on that site. Otherwise, I fear for the lives of Mike and Bryan.



LAPSLOCK IS FORBIDDEN

/FORMER CAPSLOCK_ATLA MEMBER


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2010)

Koi said:


> LAPSLOCK IS FORBIDDEN
> 
> /FORMER CAPSLOCK_ATLA MEMBER



Former? 


The Track Team's involvement is the best news yet, beyond the series existence.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2010)

I don't post there anymore. :\  Sorta fell off the boat.


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Jul 23, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Looks like the Track Team is on board for "Korra".
> 
> Can I get a "Hell Yeah!"



Hell Yeah!


----------



## The World (Jul 23, 2010)

I guess this thread won't get many posts after the new series comes out.


----------



## Superrazien (Jul 23, 2010)

^ Not if they combine the two. I noticed the Korra thread talks more about AtLA and this one talks more about Korra lol.


----------



## Piekage (Jul 23, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Looks like the Track Team is on board for "Korra".
> 
> Can I get a "Hell Yeah!"



Hell Yeah!!!!


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2010)

Weve already discussed the matter, were going to talk about anything related to the avatarverse, and if the korra thread doesnt like it, thats tough 
Were like a giant, and they are a ...tiny person!


----------



## Piekage (Jul 23, 2010)




----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2010)

Thanks for stretching my screen out pie


----------



## Piekage (Jul 23, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Thanks for stretching my screen out pie



I regret nothing!


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## The World (Jul 23, 2010)

How old is Korra? She has some big Breastessssssss,


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

We haven't even seen them yet  That's just fanart

And she's a teenager.


----------



## The World (Jul 23, 2010)

Thanks for crushing my dreams banana. 

Mike and Bryan better give her big breastesessesesesssss.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 23, 2010)

I love little granny Toph in this one. 


One of my favorite Avatar fan artists, DS-Hina, gets in on the action. 

*Spoiler*: __ 








And another good Fan Artist, Yamino, who apparently stole Korra's clothes. 

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

The World said:


> Thanks for crushing my dreams banana.
> 
> Mike and Bryan better give her big breastesessesesesssss.


Breasts to waterbend with!


----------



## Chee (Jul 23, 2010)

lol, wouldn't it be funny if she was flat-chested?


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2010)

..I kind of want her to be, just so she's not the typical girly-girl that Katara was.  Except that if she is I feel like too many people are going to focus on that part of her character (re: Sakura).    But I want her to looks different, just to break the mold.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

Korra's shoulders are huge, maybe she's gonna be a dickgirl


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2010)

I wonder how they figured she was the Avatar.   I mean, obviously they had the toy test and whatnot, but I wonder if she gave off any other signs or anything when she was a kid.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Korra's shoulders are huge, maybe she's gonna be a dickgirl



You're dead to me.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 23, 2010)

Chee said:


> lol, wouldn't it be funny if she was flat-chested?



I already called it.  She's going to be tiny as raisins.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Korra's shoulders are huge, maybe she's gonna be a dickgirl



lol wut?  She was obviously trying to look cool.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> You're dead to me.


I'm a zombie? 


Mider T said:


> lol wut?  She was obviously trying to look cool.


Dickgirls are cool


----------



## Wesley (Jul 23, 2010)

Everyone please stop quoting Reika.  He's going on my ignore list and I would appreciate not reading anything he says.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

What did I say?


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What did I say?



The dickgirl comment,you heathen..


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

You guys are humorless statues 

*earthbends smiles on your faces*


----------



## Chee (Jul 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You guys are humorless statues
> 
> *earthbends smiles on your faces*



Why is Reikai on your ignore list?


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2010)

~dickgirl dickgirl dickgirl~


----------



## The World (Jul 23, 2010)

O great now there is going to be dickgirl shipping too.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

That reminds me of the dickgirl Azula banging Ty Lee pic I got trolled with that traumatized me for a while 

Why does Avatar porn revile me?


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I love little granny Toph in this one.
> 
> 
> One of my favorite Avatar fan artists, DS-Hina, gets in on the action.
> ...



I do recall a conversation about how we thought that she should do something never done before with water.
Water bullets is nice.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That reminds me of the dickgirl Azula banging Ty Lee pic I got trolled with that traumatized me for a while
> 
> Why does Avatar porn revile me?



What the... .


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2010)

Anyway enough of that. This bit of info just came in.


> So, I'm currently using my iPod to type a short message, but I just got out of the avatar signing at the Nick booth. One pretty big piece of info- *Korra IS a miniseries*, and Bryke is happy because tha means they can really make an impressive 12 episodes instead of hits and misses like they felt they had with original series. Also, expect Korra to air in *LATE fall 2011*. I'll update this post with pics when I get home


----------



## Raiden (Jul 23, 2010)

Late fall 2011? Expected that.



Chee said:


> lol, wouldn't it be funny if she was flat-chested?



not really .


----------



## The World (Jul 23, 2010)

So this is the final book of Air that I had been hoping for. :33


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

Called the late fall thing, and expected it to be a mini-series.  Better than nothing.


----------



## bigdaddy (Jul 23, 2010)

its original and by far the best cartoon nickloden has ever had


----------



## Man in Black (Jul 23, 2010)

> Korra IS a miniseries



FUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCK. My hype has just been reduced by a significant amount.

EDIT: Where'd you get the info from Superstarsteven?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

Anyway, what about this mini-series Jove was talking about before Korra?


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm already calling it being delayed for one reason or another.

SHIT GUYS MAYBE URSA WILL BE AN IMPORTANT FIGURE, LIKE AFTER SHE LEFT SHE STARTED SOME AWESOME LITTLE COLLECTION OF PEOPLE THAT EVENTUALLY GREW INTO THE MAIN CITY.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2010)

A MINISERIES!

I don't think I'll watch until they make it have many seasons


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

I doubt it will, we're lucky we got this.  Bryke probably has no intention of returning to another Avatar story after Korra, they didn't even want to do this one.  I think Jove called it as a mini-series as well.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I doubt it will, we're lucky we got this.  Bryke probably has no intention of returning to another Avatar story after Korra, they didn't even want to do this one.  I think Jove called it as a mini-series as well.



Well I think Jove jinxed it for us! 

I'm going to Shish-kabob you Jove and cook you over hot, big fire and eat you!


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2010)

Man in Black said:


> EDIT: Where'd you get the info from Superstarsteven?



I commute between this board and ASN's board.
Larger collection of Avatar geeks obviously so more info leaks through.


----------



## The World (Jul 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> A MINISERIES!
> 
> I don't think I'll watch until they make it have many seasons



Popular demand might make Bryke cave in and make the series longer.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Well I think Jove jinxed it for us!
> 
> I'm going to Shish-kabob you Jove and cook you over hot, big fire and eat you!



Quite a few of us were thinking it would be a mini-series, Jove was just one that popped into my head


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I doubt it will, we're lucky we got this.  Bryke probably has no intention of returning to another Avatar story after Korra, they didn't even want to do this one.  I think Jove called it as a mini-series as well.



No, they had every intention of doing this.


> TZN: You said you have two weeks to finish off season 3. Do you know what’s next for you guys?
> 
> KONIETZKO: -Cut stuff about the movie-  Also, we’re just trying...we do have a new idea, and we’re just seeing if it’s going to happen or not.
> 
> ...



You could be right about M&B not returning to the Avatarverse after Korra though. Maybe not in series form but perhaps an Animated feature. It's all up in the air.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> No, they had every intention of doing this.
> 
> 
> You could be right about M&B not returning to the Avatarverse after Korra though. Maybe not in series form but perhaps an Animated feature. It's all up in the air.



2 weeks before they finished season 3.  I'm talking about their intentions from the beginning of the series (planning out the story)


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Quite a few of us were thinking it would be a mini-series, Jove was just one that popped into my head



Then I'll have to do the same to you and the others. 

What kind of person makes a miniseries after a very popular show? Why can't they be like everyone else and milk it?  mad


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

They want to keep the quality


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> They want to keep the quality



They made The Last Airbender, they don't have to worry about quality. We know they can do it.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

They probably don't want to risk the lightning in a bottle though
People tend to dislike sequels no matter how good they are, keeping it short will be keeping it sweet.  Besides the show is a huge project, I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to take on something so big again.

Why the complaining though?  It's a wonder we got this.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Why the complaining though?  It's a wonder we got this.


I don't like teases....


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> 2 weeks before they finished season 3.  I'm talking about their intentions from the beginning of the series (planning out the story)



Well if you say it that way, of course the idea of doing another series set in the same universe never entered their mind as they were figuring out what Aang's clothing design was going to look like. Who thinks that far ahead?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

^I don't get what you're saying...?  What I mean is, the entire Last Airbender story was planned out from the getgo.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Well if you say it that way, of course the idea of doing another series set in the same universe never entered their mind as they were figuring out what Aang's clothing design was going to look like. *Who thinks that far ahead?*



I hope I don't come off mean...but that's what writers/artists do. They plan out ahead of time, otherwise the story won't feel right, the characters will look and feel off, and the scenery will just look bad.

When you make something, you sit down and think about it. You make a world where your characters match _it_. Otherwise, its just silly and not very good.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> ^I don't get what you're saying...?  What I mean is, the entire Last Airbender story was planned out from the getgo.



What's not to get? I didn't know you were going back all the way to 2002 when you mentioned that Mike and Bryan didn't plan on doing Korra.
Of course not. But the germ of an idea was at least forming around the third season.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> What's not to get? I didn't know you were going back all the way to 2002 when you mentioned that Mike and Bryan didn't plan on doing Korra.
> Of course not. But the germ of an idea was at least forming around the third season.



You make it sound as if I was implying that they wouldn't think about it when first getting the basics of the story down.    What I meant was even after they finished planning the entire story Korra hadn't entered their mind.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> You make it sound as if I was implying that they wouldn't think about it when first getting the basics of the story down.    What I meant was even after they finished planning the entire story Korra hadn't entered their mind.



Ahh but you didn't make that clear my friend. You wrote "they didn't even want to do this one." It sounds as if Korra was almost a contractual obligation.
It's all about wording and context.

But whatever, we'll see of we get any news tomorrow.


----------



## Quaero (Jul 23, 2010)

Just one picture, and we have tons and tons of fan-art.

It's nice to see that the fandom has not lost any of it rabidness.


Edit: 


Weeeee, 100th post.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2010)

Quaero said:


> Just one picture, and we have tons and tons of fan-art.
> 
> It's nice to see that the fandom has not lost any of it rabidness.



Fans.

They will stick to you like super glue.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2010)

Won't watch? That's the kind of thing that kept the Great Depression going.

If you don't support it, then no new support for anything else Avatar.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2010)

I don't like being teased. I'm serious. 

Don't tease me with one of the great anime shows coming back just to make it a miniseries.

I will however, reconsider it if a Toph like character appears


----------



## Mider T (Jul 23, 2010)

You mean like Korra?

I don't see how this a tease from something that wasn't supposed to happen in the first place.  Like The Pacific.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

Mider T said:


> You mean like Korra?
> 
> I don't see how this a tease from something that wasn't supposed to happen in the first place.  Like The Pacific.



I don't know if Korra will be like Toph, or Sakura from Naruto. I like Sakura and all, but Toph's character is a lot better.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2010)

How is it a tease? You got a friggin new miniseries!

Plus since it's a miniseries, the quality will be high, and they're not giving you Korra for free dammit, that's just ungrateful.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> How is it a tease? You got a friggin new miniseries!
> 
> Plus since it's a miniseries, the quality will be high, and they're not giving you Korra for free dammit, that's just ungrateful.



Its a tease because its a miniseries off of a beloved series that people loved very, very much. And this miniseries will be over and then we will have nothing.

12 episodes is something BONES would do with his anime, and I HATE the way BONES teases me 

So its a tease! :meangrygif


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2010)

I suppose in a way it is. I feared that Korra would have trouble finding a connection with fans, so I figured maybe two Books, maybe 30-40 chapters. I do wonder if 12 episodes is enough, but then again, considering what we know of the story it certainly seems focused.

And if it's only 12 episodes, perhaps they might move on to another series faster.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2010)

Quality over quantity


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)




----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2010)

I'd say he's from Sokka but there's no way Suki's genes don't repress and overpower Sokka's idiot-side material.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

His name isn't water tribe though so I'm not so sure.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

Who are we talking about......? :<


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

Meelo in the picture above.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Meelo in the picture above.



I thought that was just a doodle.

So, who is this Meelo and what role will he play?


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2010)

Maybe he's an Earth kid?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

Koi said:


> Maybe he's an Earth kid?



I have a feeling its another child of Aang's....or OHMYGOSH! A decedent of Toph? *ultimatefangirlscream*


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

Koi said:


> Maybe he's an Earth kid?



He seems to have an Earth Kingdom name.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

If Toph doesn't have a mcawesome child or something, I will definitely not watch


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2010)

I don't think the name sounds particular to any Nation... perhaps he's a simple nomad. He does look like comic relief, though.

I'm in favor of less Gaang children, honestly.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2010)

So am I, Joveku.  UNLESS these Gaang children have information on  Ursa. 

Either way, you know we're going to at least run into a Zukobaby, with him being Fire Lord and all.  Since they're a royal line and all.  And man it'd be sweet to hear that after Bumi kicked it that Toph took over Omashu.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

Jove said:


> I don't think the name sounds particular to any Nation... perhaps he's a simple nomad. He does look like comic relief, though.
> 
> I'm in favor of less Gaang children, honestly.



Fire nation or Earth.

You can tell by his shirt he's not gonna be a Nomad...  probably a kid of Zuko's kids, or maybe Toph (yes! I am obsessed!)?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 24, 2010)

Prepare for imminent DAWW.

in

3

2

1...


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2010)

Koi said:


> So am I, Joveku.  UNLESS these Gaang children have information on  Ursa.
> 
> Either way, you know we're going to at least run into a Zukobaby, with him being Fire Lord and all.  Since they're a royal line and all.  And man it'd be sweet to hear that after Bumi kicked it that Toph took over Omashu.



**high-five**

Speaking of people taking of EK, I'm interested in what happened with Kuei... did he return? What did he change about Ba Sing Se when he returned?


I'm not enjoying switching back and forth between two threads...


----------



## Quaero (Jul 24, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Prepare for imminent DAWW.
> 
> in
> 
> ...






DAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Prepare for imminent DAWW.
> 
> in
> 
> ...




I'm almost cried 

At first, I was all screwed up and read the strip completely wrong and then I remembered, left to right. 

EDIT:
If that's how Korra acts, then this is going to be better than I thought


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

I re-read and it seems that all children born to Airbenders are Airbenders.  Hm, guess it's that strong spirituality.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I re-read and it seems that all children born to Airbenders are Airbenders.  Hm, guess it's that strong spirituality.



Wait....where did you read this?

So if Aang has a child who has a child, it will definitely be a Airbender?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Wait....where did you read this?
> 
> So if Aang has a child who has a child, it will definitely be a Airbender?



Avatar Extras

Seems so, not that it's unexpected


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Avatar Extras
> 
> Seems so, not that it's unexpected



Avatar Extras? 

Well then, me arguing the Energybending isn't need anymore. Not that it isn't valid


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> If Toph doesn't have a mcawesome child or something, I will definitely not watch


Hey, thanks for showing your gratefulness for Michael Dante DiMartino,Bryan Konietzko,Aaron Ehasz, John O'Bryan, Elizabeth Welch Ehasz, Tim Hedrick,James Eagan,Joshua Hamilton,Giancarlo Volpe,Pete Goldfinger,Josh Stolberg,Katie Mattila,Giancarlo Volpe,Dave Filoni,Lauren MacMullan,Ethan Spaulding,Joaquim Dos Santos,Anthony Lioi,Jeremy Zuckerman,Benjamin Wynn, Jeff Adams,Andrea Romano,Leah Buono,Sarah Noonan,Maryanne Dacey,Aldina Dias,Hye-Jung Kim,Justin Ridge,Bobby Rubio,Juan Jose Meza-Leon,Ian Graham,Kenji Ono,Giancarlo Volpe,Christofer Graham,Miyuki Hoshikawa,Ricardo F. Delgado,Tomihiro Yamaguchi,Lauren MacMullan,Jung Sangwoong,Oreste Canestrelli,Ethan Spaulding,Jimmy Lifton,Paulette Victor-Lifton,Aran Tanchum,Vincent Guisetti,Mishelle Fordham,Justin Brinsfield,Sanaa Cannella,Jeffrey Kettle,Tom Maydeck,Jeremy Zuckerman,Matthew Thomas Hall,Sergio Silva,Lou Teti, Ernest Chan, Park Min Sim...

Eh, you get the idea

You have to give Korra a chance on it's own merits, you're not showing a lot of respect by practically asking them to pander to you. You'd be no better than rabid shippers, or series bashers.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Avatar Extras?
> 
> Well then, me arguing the Energybending isn't need anymore. Not that it isn't valid



Avatar Extras shows little known facts during the show in little bubbles, it's only shown on Nicktoons at 8 p.m. on weekdays though.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Avatar Extras shows little known facts during the show in little bubbles, it's only shown on Nicktoons at 8 p.m. on weekdays though.


If only the Avatar Extras were more than insipid little blurbs about what's happening on screen at the moment. Really, it's like the Clippy


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Blah, blah.
> 
> Eh, you get the idea
> 
> You have to give Korra a chance on it's own merits, you're not showing a lot of respect by practically asking them to pander to you. You'd be no better than rabid shippers, or series bashers.



They are here to entertain me, not the other way around.  If I am not pleased as a fan, I've the right to get angry.  



Mider T said:


> Avatar Extras shows little known facts during the show in little bubbles, it's only shown on Nicktoons at 8 p.m. on weekdays though.



Oh...I never payed attention to that.  I'll try to catch it again lol


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 24, 2010)

This ones just damn funny.



And for the Korra and Katara comic I posted earlier, here's a higher resolution. I didn't realize my image host had shrunk it down so much. 

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> If only the Avatar Extras were more than insipid little blurbs about what's happening on screen at the moment. Really, it's like the Clippy



It has its moments lol, I for one enjoy the whole thing.


----------



## NU-KazeKage (Jul 24, 2010)

but i thought that the airbenders were all about unattaching them selves from the world...so how do they have children unless they still really really love sex lol


----------



## Chee (Jul 24, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> This ones just damn funny.



L.   O.          L.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> They are here to entertain me, not the other way around.  If I am not pleased as a fan, I've the right to get angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh...I never payed attention to that.  I'll try to catch it again lol


I'd think the people hard at work on Avatar would appreciate it if you didn't amount their names to "blah blah"....

I know AtLA was great an all, but allow them the freedom to make a story and its characters that doesn't have to be derivative, and live in the shadow of their predecessor. That's a huge disservice to both the original characters and story, and the new series. Being derivative does nothing but to whore out the original idea with no meaning.





stab-o-tron5000 said:


> This ones just damn funny.


Where's Momo? :<


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

NU-KazeKage said:


> but i thought that the airbenders were all about unattaching them selves from the world...so how do they have children unless they still really really love sex lol



They are the smallest nation population-wise but still procreate, whether to keep the Airbenders alive or to raise a family is not known.  What is known is that they are not celibate, unlike real-life monks.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 24, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Where's Momo? :<



Probably why Appa died.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Probably why Appa died.


Oh dear AvatarGod, Appa finally ate Momo!

...

Or he rolled over on Momo!

...

Or he stepped on...

Man, there's a lot of ways Appa can accidently kill Momo.


----------



## Narcissus (Jul 24, 2010)

So, was this posted yet?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

No, but I the Avatar booth at comic-con should be going on right now!


----------



## Superrazien (Jul 24, 2010)

^^ They seemed all to well prepared for that question lol. M.Night really annoys the hell out of me though.


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2010)

Miniseries 

Well... Bryke did say something about showing interest in an animated movie so...

I really hope that the avatarverse is neverending :>


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> This ones just damn funny.


Ah, man, this one was funny 

I watched ComiCon all day and nothing. I guess the TV special doesn't concentrate on the better things


----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

What channel did it come on?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

Mider T said:


> What channel did it come on?



G4.

It was mostly Marvel stuff.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2010)




----------



## Mider T (Jul 24, 2010)

Nobody move!


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2010)

People make Aang act so funny


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 25, 2010)

Firebending at 7 minutes


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2010)

No youtube on this computer, whats it a video of D

Korra set is half done e_e


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 25, 2010)

N??ps said:


> No youtube on this computer, whats it a video of D
> 
> Korra set is half done e_e




A Sony game for the motion controller. Its just hands making fire, not related to Avatar at all


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> A Sony game for the motion controller. Its just hands making fire, not related to Avatar at all



let down!
I was hoping korra spoiler 
Speaking of korra, check me out


----------



## Piekage (Jul 25, 2010)

N??ps said:


> let down!
> I was hoping korra spoiler
> Speaking of korra, check me out



Looking bitchin' there N??ps.


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Looking bitchin' there N??ps.



Kthx


----------



## Shade (Jul 26, 2010)

Wait...didn't Comic-Con end today? No new Korra info then? : (


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2010)

There was, a bit here and there. Nothing was shown on TV or G4, so fans who were there probably got the information.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 26, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> A Sony game for the motion controller. Its just hands making fire, not related to Avatar at all


It could be, imagine an Avatar game with Move


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 26, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> It could be, imagine an Avatar game with Move



Featuring a tutorial with Sifu Kisu in a little tv box on the upper right hand corner as you see your bender move along with you.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> It could be, imagine an Avatar game with Move



Nah, it was just a special demo game for the motion controller. It would be cool if something like that came out for Avatar, but I doubt anyone would take the chance with how the movie turned out....


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 26, 2010)

I got high hopes for Kinect too, but Move too, could also do controller free motion tracking for an awesome Avatar game.


----------



## arcanecapricorn (Jul 26, 2010)

has anyone posted this yet


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2010)

Not from that specific link, no.


----------



## arcanecapricorn (Jul 26, 2010)

Jove said:


> Not from that specific link, no.



im wondering why no one is talking about this. i i see is people ranting about bullllshit when they should be getting hyped about this


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2010)

arcanecapricorn said:


> im wondering why no one is talking about this. i i see is people ranting about bullllshit when they should be getting hyped about this



We are talking about it. Here and in the Korra thread.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2010)

arcanecapricorn said:


> im wondering why no one is talking about this. i i see is people ranting about bullllshit when they should be getting hyped about this



Well, now that you've delivered us news that broke a week ago we'll gladly relive pages 800-840.


----------



## uchia2000 (Jul 27, 2010)

The Last Airbender has broken even.


----------



## Chee (Jul 27, 2010)

uchia2000 said:


> The Last Airbender has broken even.



Production costs only? Cause they probably have another 50 million to go for advertising.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2010)

Has it? Box Office Mojo shows it as $123 million. It might make up the $150 production budget, and that itself is astounding... it won't make up the addition $130 million production budget.

PS: I'm HYPED about Legend of Korra!


----------



## Mider T (Jul 27, 2010)

Jove said:


> PS: I'm HYPED about Legend of Korra!



Judging by your earlier reactions, I'm guessing it took awhile to kick in


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2010)

My version of hyped is to thoroughly think about it. 

Too bad about SDCC being a tad underwhelming, but it was merely signings. SDCC2011 will certainly be SDCC2007-level excitement, and perhaps M&B will do something at NYCC.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm just hoping for some sort of statement during the holidays


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2010)

Well, I just noticed this:



> * As mentioned , the cabbage merchant will not appear, but "his legacy will be present in some form."
> 
> * As an evolution of the first series, The Legend of Korra will have more sophistication to it, but still keep the humor, fun hybrid animals, and action.
> 
> ...



I'll make a troll out of you.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 27, 2010)

I love how ever answer is a "Yes but...*enter oblique answer without elaboration* or *esoteric response*"


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm most interested in the revelation that they are writing each episode. I wonder if any of the old writing staff will be hired at all.


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2010)

I guess you could take any ATLA season, remove filler ad unneeded part, and you could get about 12 episodes.

I like how the first question is about the cabbage merchan


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 27, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> I guess you could take any ATLA season, remove filler ad unneeded part, and you could get about 12 episodes.
> 
> I like how the first question is about the cabbage merchan


His progeny shall be the Lettuce Vendor, striking the hearts of everyone with a cool refreshing crunch, with his cohorts, the Tomato Purveyor, the Duck-Hog Belly Clerk, and the Bread Peddler, most commonly know as...THE BREADELER!


----------



## uchia2000 (Jul 27, 2010)

Chee said:


> Production costs only? Cause they probably have another 50 million to go for advertising.


I thought the $150 million grand total included production + advertising costs? But if your right and they had extra money for advertising where was the $150 million spent on the movie? 



Jove said:


> Has it? Box Office Mojo shows it as $123 million. It might make up the $150 production budget, and that itself is astounding... it won't make up the addition $130 million production budget.
> 
> PS: I'm HYPED about Legend of Korra!


If you include foreign profits its barely above $150 million.


----------



## Skywalker (Jul 27, 2010)

I always thought they'd continue this.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2010)

Jove said:


> Well, I just noticed this:
> 
> I'll make a troll out of you.



pek

I'm glad they will be keeping the Hybrid-Animals and humor. I might reconsider and watch


----------



## Arya Stark (Jul 27, 2010)

A girl Avatar will be interesting :33


----------



## ViolentlyHappy (Jul 27, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> pek
> 
> I'm glad they will be keeping the Hybrid-Animals and humor. I might reconsider and watch



H & H is what made Avatar, _Avatar_. Those reasons alone are enough to justify watching it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2010)

ViolentlyHappy said:


> H & H is what made Avatar, _Avatar_. Those reasons alone are enough to justify watching it.



Definitely, and the actually good characters and their development.


----------



## ViolentlyHappy (Jul 27, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Definitely, and the actually good characters and their development.



That, and the animation is badass.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2010)

ViolentlyHappy said:


> That, and the animation is badass.



That's true, the best animation I've ever seen in anime. pek


----------



## rancher8 (Jul 27, 2010)

> On the *persecution of Airbenders* being compared to the X-Men registration act: "We'll see something like that, but in sort of a different structure.





I wonder if this is just a mistake by the interviewer or if airbending become much more prominent during that seven decades that have passed.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 28, 2010)

Yeah I was confused about that too...did he mean benders in general?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2010)

Oh no...its going to be like X-men? 

I don't want that!


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 28, 2010)

Just because it cost 150,000,000 to make and 130,000,000 to advertise(I dont remember if those are the exact numbers; the numbers tend to vary anyway), that doesnt mean it needs 280,000,000 to break even.

I dont know how they figure it out(it's usually different for movie). But it's not that simple.

lol, I was watching the Tonight Show and they had a funny spoof of it. 

"Avatar: The Legend of Korra" needs one thing: Beerbending.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Oh no...its going to be like X-men?
> 
> I don't want that!



I don't think you'll get that.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 28, 2010)

FirstMoon said:


> A girl Avatar will be interesting :33



One of the many things Mike and Bryan excel at is creating great female characters. SO this is something I know they'll handle great. 

I was thinking that maybe they should hold workshop for Kishimoto and try to teach him how that works. 

-  -  -  -  -

Bryan: Alright, so you've given this girl some good powers, now what are her motivations, what drives her and molds her personality. 

Kishimoto: She like boys and cry a lot. 

Mike: No, that... what? That's not motivation or personality. What we mean is, what is it she does in the show. Why is she there. 

Kishimoto: She like boys and cry a lot. 

Bryan: Jesus... I mean... jesus. Really, you've got to have something for your female characters to do. Think of how they can impact the story.

Kishimoto: Ok, Sometimes she confused about what boy she like and that makes her cry a lot. 

Bryan: fuck this, were gone. 

Kishimoto: No wait, me think of better girl character. There's one girl who knows which boy she likes, but she no cry. She just faint when boy around. 

Mike: Are you fucking serious! That's your female characters do, just very about boys and faint. 

Kishimoto: Oh, no non no. Some girl characters very complex. They cry cause they weak useless and that make them sad. 

Bryan: Have you ever even met a girl?

Kishimoto: No, but I do watch a lot of American soap opera show!

-  -  -  -  -  -

This is fun... I would keep going, but I have to go to work.


----------



## Shade (Jul 28, 2010)

More stuff from the rumour mill, some of which is confirmed.


> * Aang is featured in the series in the Spirit World, as Roku and past Avatars were to Aang in the Last Airbender.
> o This seems likely because Aang commented that no-one except a previous Avatar can really teach, or at least offer guidance to, the current Avatar about their duties beyond Bending. This reinforced an earlier statement from Gyatso to Aang that once Aang could enter the Air Temple Sanctuary he would meet someone who would help him become a better Avatar, when he finally entered the Sanctuary it contained only statues of all the previous Avatars.
> o If Aang's own experiences are any guide Aang would seem the most likely past Avatar to speak to Korra. Aang immediately felt a connection with a statue of Roku, instinctively knowing Roku's name and that Roku was his previous self, and Roku appeared to Aang more regularly then any other of his previous selves.
> * This tweet shows that there will be a character named Meelo in the series.[14] The tweet also says there will be a character named Wei Bei.[15]
> ...



Most of it sounds like conjecture though.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 28, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Just because it cost 150,000,000 to make and 130,000,000 to advertise(I dont remember if those are the exact numbers; the numbers tend to vary anyway), that doesnt mean it needs 280,000,000 to break even.
> 
> I dont know how they figure it out(it's usually different for movie). But it's not that simple.
> 
> ...



Last night's show?


----------



## The Potential (Jul 28, 2010)

I just want more Avatar. Reading all this news just makes me all the more excited! Lets go Legend of Korra!!!


----------



## sasukebaka (Jul 28, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> One of the many things Mike and Bryan excel at is creating great female characters. SO this is something I know they'll handle great.
> 
> I was thinking that maybe they should hold workshop for Kishimoto and try to teach him how that works.
> 
> ...



XD I love this

I can't wait till the Legend of Korra


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I don't think you'll get that.



Whoo!



I can't believe it took so much money to advertise. *sigh*


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2010)

I heard Dante Basco in a game i play as extra voices.
it was made last year so its nice to see him doing something post avatar.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 29, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I heard Dante Basco in a game i play as extra voices.
> it was made last year so its nice to see him doing something post avatar.


DB is a pretty active voice actor, why would you think he wouldn't get work after AtLA?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 29, 2010)

DB was famous long before Avatar, as an actor and voice actor


----------



## troublesum-chan (Jul 29, 2010)

dante bosco being in avatar was originally one of the pulls for me

rufio love<3


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2010)

Mider T said:


> DB was famous long before Avatar, as an actor and voice actor



He was?  I had no idea...

I think his voice is kinda annoying...and he's not very good at acting, but that's my opinion. But I did like American Dragon: Jake Long, that show was cool and had original characters and plot.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 29, 2010)

Dante Basco distinct voice is one of the things that makes me a fan of him lol.  His first role was in Moonwalker (the Michael Jackson movie) when he was a kid.

I remember him from that, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, like every show on Disney Channel in the early 2000s, First of the North Star dub, Hook, But I'm a Cheerleader, and A Goofy Movie.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2010)

Well...I think he's a bit too up-tight and too "I'm too good for you." and thinks his actin' don't stink, but again, that's just me lol

He was in a Goofy Movie? Which one, first or second?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Well...I think he's a bit too up-tight and too "I'm too good for you." and thinks his actin' don't stink, but again, that's just me lol
> 
> He was in a Goofy Movie? Which one, first or second?


Wait...So you don't know who Dante is, yet you say that like you know him...

What.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Wait...So you don't know who Dante is, yet you say that like you know him...
> 
> What.



I can get a vivid picture of how they are through interviews, Disney spots, Nick spots and extras on released DVDs. I get the same feeling I got from Mariah Carey, and she hates to ride with poor people.

Snobby, up-tight people.

You know you don't have to meet someone to get a taste of their personality, right? Unless I'm the only one who can read people 

And how do you know I don't know Dante, eh?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I can get a vivid picture of how they are through interviews, Disney spots, Nick spots and extras on released DVDs. I get the same feeling I got from Mariah Carey, and she hates to ride with poor people.
> 
> Snobby, up-tight people.
> 
> ...


Because you didn't know he had a life before AtLA 

You toe the line between troll and poseur...


----------



## Mider T (Jul 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Well...I think he's a bit too up-tight and too "I'm too good for you." and thinks his actin' don't stink, but again, that's just me lol
> 
> He was in a Goofy Movie? Which one, first or second?



There's only one A Goofy Movie, the other film is An Extremely Goofy Movie.

Fun fact:  Dante is also a poet and dancer.

And...he has experience so he knows what he's doing, if he gave off a snobby vibe. lol


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2010)

My bad i meant i just havent heard him in anything new since Summer 08


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2010)

Mider T said:


> There's only one A Goofy Movie, the other film is An Extremely Goofy Movie.


Goofy movies, is what I meant by which one. lol

--->

 not your childish fights again. *sigh*
*Spoiler*: __ 






ReikaiDemon said:


> Because you didn't know he had a life before AtLA
> 
> You toe the line between troll and poseur...



I knew he worked in other things, but I didn't know EVERYTHING he worked in.  besides that, how the feck did you get that?



> He was?  I had no idea...


@


> DB was famous long before Avatar, as an actor and voice actor


Encase you don't follow, I was mocking the idea of Dante being famous 

Is your diaper giving you another rash?


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2010)

Someones arguing with reikai?
Why i never 

Did some lurking and my slow self realised that in some places ATLA was called The Legend of Aang.
Appropriate no?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Goofy movies, is what I meant by which one. lol
> 
> --->
> 
> ...


Look, you just say a lot of bullshit and I just call you out on it.

It's rather trite of you to base your opinion on Dante as a person because of his interviews. It's extremely obnoxious, and disrespectful.



N??ps said:


> Someones arguing with reikai?
> Why i never
> 
> Did some lurking and my slow self realised that in some places ATLA was called The Legend of Aang.
> Appropriate no?


Well, that's because the word Bender is something profane. Though the word bender in the US is used the same way, I guess it just isn't as prominent.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 29, 2010)

Bender = ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in America
You guys are referring to a cigarette when we talk about a futurama character


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 29, 2010)

On the Dante Basco subject, I think he was 95% perfect as Zuko... the other 5% was some of the most awkward acting on the show.


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 29, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Last night's show?



The show before I posted that, whatever it was.

In DB's defense, Zuko is an awkward character to pull off. Being angsty can become trite and mawkish. But yeah, I'm not sure if I felt he did a great job. Sometimes he did, other times he felt like a non-voice actor trying to be a voice actor(even though he is, as said, an active voice actor).

Overall, I think he was fine, but probably one of the weaker VA's on the show(imo). I always thought the VA's who did Toph and Sokka were the best.


----------



## Omolara (Jul 29, 2010)

Jove said:


> On the Dante Basco subject, I think he was 95% perfect as Zuko... the other 5% was some of the most awkward acting on the show.



I think a lot of that has to do with writing and direction too. Plus, Zuko got some of the most awkward lines on the show. He was just kind of awkward all around. 

Either way, I love hearing him as a VA.

The reunion scene with Uncle gets me every single time.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 29, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Bender = ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in America
> You guys are referring to a cigarette when we talk about a futurama character


Huh, I thought it meant to be inebriated thoroughly to the point of acting like a fool.

Wouldn't your definition still mean a strong, offensive word for a gay person? You usually don't translate the meaning of the word to another vernacular.


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2010)

All this dante talk made me remember...
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLZK6gtBsw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Mider T (Jul 29, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Huh, I thought it meant to be inebriated thoroughly to the point of acting like a fool.
> 
> Wouldn't your definition still mean a strong, offensive word for a gay person? You usually don't translate the meaning of the word to another vernacular.



Bender is slang for a homosexual person is what I've been told.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 29, 2010)

Because they're bent and not straight.


----------



## Omolara (Jul 29, 2010)

I have never heard "bender" used that way. I've heard of going on a bender, but not that.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 29, 2010)

^ This.  Going out and getting wasted.


----------



## Koi (Jul 29, 2010)

I have seriously never heard 'bender' outside of the context of either Futrama or alcohol use before.  When did bender = gay happen?


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 29, 2010)

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...


...in the U.K.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 29, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...
> 
> 
> ...in the U.K.



This.  Like most Americans I've never heard Bender being used that way, just talked about by word-of-mouth.  And from what I understand it's slang that isn't widely spoken at that.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2010)

> I always thought the VA's who did Toph and Sokka were the best.




I think the best in the show for me, would be Azula, Uncle Iroh and General Zhao's actor/actresses. I didn't think Vicky's actress could do crazy Azula so good, but I was wrong. 



> I think a lot of that has to do with writing and direction too. Plus, Zuko got some of the most awkward lines on the show. He was just kind of awkward all around.



That's true. Zuko's actor seemed to have gotten a lot more awkward scenes than the rest.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Look, you just say a lot of bullshit and I just call you out on it.
> 
> It's rather trite of you to base your opinion on Dante as a person because of his interviews. It's extremely obnoxious, and disrespectful.



*Spoiler*: _Zee End-eh_ 



 

You got angry 'cause I didn't like Dante. That's childish. But sure, if not liking a bad actor is "bullshit" that needs to be "called out" (Which, you've use this before) then go ahead -- _think_ it.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 29, 2010)

^Which Iroh?  Mako or Greg Baldwin?


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2010)

I think greg did a great job.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2010)

Mider T said:


> ^Which Iroh?  Mako or Greg Baldwin?



I think they both did great, but Mako was my favorite. pek


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 29, 2010)

Well sure, Mako made the role but Greg was good enough to not be glaringly obvious that it was a different voice actor. It also helped that he read the lines perfectly. Otherwise the fandom would have made a huge fuss about "the guy who ruined Uncle Iroh". 
Mako's last VA role by the way was as Master Splinter in TMNT back in 2008, this website has a page  from various incarnations of the Ninja Turtles throughout the years and features Mako's take on him.

What you probably don't know is that Greg Baldwin was brought in to do some ADR work. Unfortunately Mako's voice probably wasn't up to snuff at the time and Greg received the Lion's share of Splinter's lines in that film. So if you check out the audio that's representing Mako's version of the character, it's actually Greg.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2010)

I still think Mako did it better....  He played Iroh perfectly, his voice was friendly sounding too pek


----------



## Mider T (Jul 30, 2010)

I think Greg was just honored to play a character voiced by Mako, I read that he studied his patterns for years and such.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 30, 2010)

Oh man...Mako had the best voice.  

But Iroh was such a great character - one of the best parts of the story.  Have to admit that I was really cut when I saw the end of his segment in _Tales of Ba Sing Se_.   

Thank God Sokka wasn't far off  

I only hope that Zuko is filled with Irohisms if he makes an appearance in this miniseries.  I couldn't imagine it any other way.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2010)

I was always able to tell the difference between Mako and Greg; it really stands out in Tales of Ba Sing Se. Greg did an admirable job, but Mako _is_ Iroh.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 30, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I think the best in the show for me, would be Azula, Uncle Iroh and General Zhao's actor/actresses. I didn't think Vicky's actress could do crazy Azula so good, but I was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I had to call you out because you were talking up a whole lot a shit about him with such confidence.  I couldn't care less if anyone likes him, but you were speaking like  it's personal.

Seriously, as an actor, I wouldn't care, but criticizing him like that as a person is just evil.

And baseless, you didn't even know who he was.


----------



## Klue (Jul 30, 2010)

How is it that Aang can speak to Roku, of whom he is the reincarnation of? It's also said that the Avatar State represents the collective power of all the past Avatars taking action at a single instance.

How does that make any sense? 

Is it that an Avatar's personality, memories, wisdom, skill and energy are reprinted on-top of a single spirit?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 30, 2010)

Klue said:


> How is it that Aang can speak to Roku, of whom he is the reincarnation of? It's also said that the Avatar State represents the collective power of all the past Avatars taking action at a single instance.
> 
> How does that make any sense?
> 
> Is it that an Avatar's personality, memories, wisdom, skill and energy are reprinted on-top of a single spirit?



Supposedly Aang can speak to any Avatar he chooses as he did did in the finale.  He'd rather take Roku's advice seeing as the war was Roku's mistake and he is of the nation of the enemy.


----------



## The Potential (Jul 30, 2010)

Mako was Iroh, period. Greg did a smashing job though i must give him a round of applause. Iroh IMO is also one of the best characters in Avatar, if not the best.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 30, 2010)

Klue said:


> How is it that Aang can speak to Roku, of whom he is the reincarnation of? It's also said that the Avatar State represents the collective power of all the past Avatars taking action at a single instance.
> 
> How does that make any sense?
> 
> Is it that an Avatar's personality, memories, wisdom, skill and energy are reprinted on-top of a single spirit?


It's a bit complicated like that, but each Avatar is a distinct individual,but basically the same spirit. It's much like how the Buddha is many individuals, and a state of being as well.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2010)

> Mako was Iroh, period. Greg did a smashing job though i must give him a round of applause. Iroh IMO is also one of the best characters in Avatar, if not the best.


Definitely. 

I barely, barely noticed that Iroh wasn't Mako (you know when lol), and when Mako died (May you rest in peace ) I thought they'd end the show. Its nice that _someone_ could do Iroh almost as great as Mako. 



ReikaiDemon said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 @ you
*Spoiler*: _*sigh*_ 



 I never ONCE said I knew him and I even said you can get an impression of people without knowing them, kinda like the how you get your impression of me.  Did I make it easy for you to understand now?
You were just itchin' to start something (again lol). Seriously, go change your diaper and stop your bawlin'. 

_*edited for errors, grammar and found quotes:*_

Also.... Did you miss this part? I never said I didn't KNOW him, jeex, what is wrong with you? If I didn't know him, I wouldn't have known he was in another shows that I LIKED. Let me explain this to you _again_, because you seemed to have missed it..._again_.



> Me:
> not your childish fights again. *sigh*





ReikaiDemon said:


> Because you didn't know he had a life before AtLA
> 
> You toe the line between troll and poseur...



I knew he worked in other things, but I didn't know EVERYTHING he worked in.  besides that, how the feck did you get that?



> Me again:
> He was?  I had no idea...


*@ (which here means I'm talking, or directing, my post toward Mider's post)*


> This is by Mider T:
> DB was *famous long* before Avatar, as an actor and voice actor


Encase you don't follow, I was *mocking* the idea of Dante being famous 

Is your diaper giving you another rash?

---> end of quotes. Also, if you need a link to the post.

Hopefully you grasped it this time *laughs*


----------



## Burke (Jul 30, 2010)

What is with you guys, you present decent arguements, but for some reason you feel the need to throw insults in at the end...

Go to PM plz


----------



## Mider T (Jul 30, 2010)

I think Mako died before Season 2 aired but had recorded some of the episodes before he passed.  Like everyone said Greg sounds alot like Mako but he's clearly not him (Mako has that gruffly voice that makes him him...it only got more apparent as the years went on due to his heavy smoking.  He died from Lung Cancer).  Having said that, I have the utmost respect for Greg Baldwin and thought he did an awesome job.

They wouldn't cancel the show just because he died


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2010)

Mider T said:
			
		

> I think Mako died before Season 2 aired but had recorded some of the episodes before he passed. Like everyone said Greg sounds alot like Mako but he's clearly not him (Mako has that gruffly voice that makes him him...it only got more apparent as the years went on due to his heavy smoking. He died from Lung Cancer). Having said that, I have the utmost respect for Greg Baldwin and thought he did an awesome job.
> 
> They wouldn't cancel the show just because he died



Well, I'm not saying Greg didn't do well or really good, just that Mako to me, was extremely good and my favorite Iroh. I would have been upset as a fan of the show and Iroh if they had just picked another person off the streets that didn't sound like Mako or didn't bring the flesh and quality Mako did, to Iroh...

Well...I didn't know that at the time, and if they had given the spot to just anyone, I don't think I'd want the show to continue >.> lol


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 30, 2010)

I never watched Season 3 so never heard Mako's replacement. Im reminded though of those Harry Potter movies when Richard Harris(Dumbledore) died and had to be replaced. It worked, but the two actors had different approaches to the characters.

Oddly, it took me awhile figure out it was Mako playing Iroh, and unlike probably a lot of you- I was familiar with Mako's work as an actor(guess it just never hit me that he went into VA). I mainly know him from the Conan movies, that crappy Chuck Norris movie(Sidekicks?), Rise: Blood Hunter, Bird People in China(Takashi Miike movie!), One of the Highlander movies(3, I think. He dies pretty quickly) Pearl Harbor and Bulletproof Monk.

Im sure I've seen more. Not really the best filmography(I only liked 2 of the movies I mentioned). But I always thought he was awesome in them.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 30, 2010)

Wait why haven't you watched Season 3 yet?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> I never watched Season 3 so never heard Mako's replacement. Im reminded though of those Harry Potter movies when Richard Harris(Dumbledore) died and had to be replaced. It worked, but the two actors had different approaches to the characters.
> 
> *Oddly, it took me awhile figure out it was Mako playing Iroh, and unlike probably a lot of you- I was familiar with Mako's work as an actor(guess it just never hit me that he went into VA).* I mainly know him from the Conan movies, that crappy Chuck Norris movie(Sidekicks?), Rise: Blood Hunter, Bird People in China(Takashi Miike movie!), One of the Highlander movies(3, I think. He dies pretty quickly) Pearl Harbor and Bulletproof Monk.
> 
> Im sure I've seen more. Not really the best filmography(I only liked 2 of the movies I mentioned). But I always thought he was awesome in them.



If you've seen season 2, then you heard him before 

Hey man, not cool....I knew him from a lot of movies, my mother loved him so much in the movies, so she played them a lot and then watched them when they aired on TV. I may not remember titles of movies (ask any of my friends, I stink at remembering things like that), but I know I watched and loved all the ones I did get to watch.


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 30, 2010)

Not watching Season 3: Interest. I was into it for awhile, but it took so long for Season 3 to come out that by the time it did, I just didnt really care.

If they get up to a 3rd movie, I might check it out again for some context.

Im sure Mako has done plenty of good movies. I just dont remember any of them. I liked the first Conan movie as well as "The Bird people of China", but thats it.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 30, 2010)

That's a shame, Season 3 is the best of them all.  There's no way the movie will do it justice.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2010)

Mider T said:


> That's a shame, Season 3 is the best of them all.  There's no way the movie will do it justice.



Speaking of the movie...how much did it make? 



MartialHorror said:


> Not watching Season 3: Interest. I was into it for awhile, but it took so long for Season 3 to come out that by the time it did, I just didnt really care.
> 
> If they get up to a 3rd movie, I might check it out again for some context.
> 
> Im sure Mako has done plenty of good movies. I just dont remember any of them. I liked the first Conan movie as well as "The Bird people of China", but thats it.



I don't think we'll see other movies (I would have loved to see them though...), but you shouldn't really let that make you not watch Season 3. It had loads of funnies lol


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 30, 2010)

There might be another movie. They're making a Narnia 3, after all, and I remember that in the U.S, that was considered a flop.

Hmm, actually I did watch one episode of Season 3. It was when they were watching the play about them. In fact, I think Rekai told me about that which was why I did it.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 30, 2010)

M. Night has already stated they'll be a movie for each book.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2010)

Mider T said:


> M. Night has already stated they'll be a movie for each book.



Yea, I know that...but "would Paramount let him make another if this movie has failed" is what I meant


----------



## Mider T (Jul 30, 2010)

Contract is a contract lol


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Contract is a contract lol



Oh, I didn't know contracts were made for more. I thought they just gave him the right to make another if he wanted without a bonding slip of paper


----------



## Narcissus (Jul 30, 2010)

Mako was a great voice actor in general. Even before avatar, he did a great job vocing Aku on Samurai Jack.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2010)

Mider T said:


> That's a shame, Season 3 is the best of them all.  There's no way the movie will do it justice.



Woah there, mister. Overall, Book 3 is the weakest, but it does contain a strong second half and one of the greatest series finales ever produced.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> Mako was a great voice actor in general. Even before avatar, he did a great job vocing Aku on Samurai Jack.



Aw man, I loved Samurai Jack so much, and I always did love Aku. pek


----------



## Mider T (Jul 30, 2010)

Jove said:


> Woah there, mister. Overall, Book 3 is the weakest, but it does contain a strong second half and one of the greatest series finales ever produced.



I enjoy slice-of-life then srs bznz  Besides, the parallels between Aang and Zuko collided in Book 3, and it wrapped up the main characters' understanding of each other.


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 30, 2010)

Technically, a contract can be broken. Think of the whole Conan(Tonight Show) thing. It will just cost the studio quite a bit of money.

But it's too early to dismiss the film as a failure. Bad reviews means nothing if the whole thing is financially successful.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> But it's too early to dismiss the film as a failure. Bad reviews means nothing if the whole thing is financially successful.



I personally didn't find the movie as bad as the reviewers were saying. I lost interest in what they were saying when they would say Twilight had better actors and better lines


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 31, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Bad reviews means nothing if the whole thing is financially successful.





Domestic Total as of Jul. 29, 2010: $125,478,277

Production Budget: $150 million

It's currently clearing about half a million a day _worldwide._ Keep in mind that the studio only keeps about 60% of the profits, on top of that notorious 130 million for advertising. As far as I can tell, this thing doesn't have a rats ass of breaking even, much less making a profit. It's over, done, that's it. 

And that makes me very happy. 

M. Night won't get the chance to ruin Toph and Azula.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 31, 2010)

I've been thinking, Tenzin should be able talk to Aang on demand through Korra since Avatar incarnations can take command of the medium host.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 31, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> M. Night won't get the chance to ruin Toph and Azula.



Well, maybe they will make another and will kick M.Night out then.

Then we would be happy, no?


----------



## Piekage (Jul 31, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Well, maybe they will make another and will kick M.Night out then.
> 
> Then we would be happy, no?



Depends on who's attached to direct the sequel. It's possible they could get someone worst than M.Night (gasp!).


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 31, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Domestic Total as of Jul. 29, 2010: $125,478,277
> 
> Production Budget: $150 million
> 
> ...



It's made over 150,000,000 total worldwide, for the record. But dont sound so sure of things. I've heard various reports over the films budget. (the lowest I've heard was 100,000,000). 

Two, unless they've released new info, saying the studio keeps about 60% of the profits is a guess. It varies per movie. A lot of advertising is done via product placement(example, Burger King promotes it via toys). So even though the advertising numbers are high, a lot of the money that went into that was not meant to go back to whoever gave it in the first place.

"Hellboy" didn't do well either, but a sequel happened. Why? DVD sales, which sometimes is more important than theatrical sales. There is a chance that TLA will be a blast on DVD.

You also need to consider the chance of a loyal cult following(take imdb for example, the highest counted rating was a 1/10. The 2nd highest? a 10/10.

While TLA isn't a runaway financial success, these factors mean that a sequel is still very possible. ESPECIALLY if they do "Legend of Korra", which would revive even more interest in the name. 

Your only hope is that the studios are concerned about the critical reception enough to say no dice. But I doubt it. If they cared about what people thought of M. Night, they wouldn't have hired him in the first place.

Thats why I say it's too early to completely write out a sequel. A movies success(or lack of) is unpredictable. "Narnia" was a huge flop domestically but a surprise success internationally. Hence, "Narnia 3". "Hellboy" was a minor success at best theatrically, but was a surprise hit on DVD. Hence, "Hellboy 2".


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 31, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Depends on who's attached to direct the sequel. It's possible they could get someone worst than M.Night (gasp!).



I actually don't think M.Night is bad, just had a bad streak. He needs to sit down and try a bit harder, or try not to make such an epic movie -- you can't force yourself to be awesome. Take the take, smell the roses...

It would be awesome to get the Lord of the Rings director


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 31, 2010)

lol, do you guys also think they should get a new cast?

As much as I'd rather they'd have a different cast to begin with, new actors would be confusing.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 31, 2010)

I loved the casting, Aang was perfect and so was Katara. Well, general Zhao, Ozai and a few others would definitely have to be changed (they didn't really pull it off). Especially Ozai...where is his beard? 

And maybe put a few of them in acting class for a bit


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2010)

They don't need a better cast, they need a better script. I wasn't appalled by the acting, though some of it was awkwardly mediocre.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 31, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I actually don't think M.Night is bad, just had a bad streak. He needs to sit down and try a bit harder, or try not to make such an epic movie -- you can't force yourself to be awesome. Take the take, smell the roses...
> 
> It would be awesome to get the Lord of the Rings director



Peter Jackson?  Doesn't he take longer than James Cameron to make a film?


----------



## Yousif77 (Jul 31, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Domestic Total as of Jul. 29, 2010: $125,478,277
> 
> Production Budget: $150 million
> 
> ...




EXACTLY!!! Try telling that to the over-zealous stans

They think the movie will make a profit in merchandise


----------



## Skywalker (Jul 31, 2010)

They should make a part 2 to this.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 31, 2010)

Jove said:


> They don't need a better cast, they need a better script. I wasn't appalled by the acting, though some of it was awkwardly mediocre.




Sometimes it was dry, but I thought the acting was good, especially since two of the main actor/actresses were new to the job. I thought Noah did so well and he looked like him too lol



> Peter Jackson? Doesn't he take longer than James Cameron to make a film?


He is the god at making films good, so I think M.Night should be fired and have Mr.Goodwithfilms make the movie.

It doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as its the best. pek


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 31, 2010)

But how or why would you bother with a sequel when they've already screwed up the source material irreparably.

He's changed the physics of the bending making it practically useless. Benders have to dance around for several seconds just to make pidley shit happen. It took 7 earthbenders to move a 50 pound stone! You know what would have been more useful than that... one normal guy picking it up and throwing it. 

Firebenders can't produce their own flames therefore making them less threatening and apparently the big bad terror of Sozins comet will... just make them as strong as they already where in the show. 

There's so much more, but my point is, the worlds already been ruined. I just don't see that it's possible to salvage it even if you get another director, you're still stuck working in the shit-Avatarverse that already been established by the first movie. 

You could do a reboot, but from the studio's perspective, why bother? 

...and for the sake of argument, lets jump ahead to the third movie. The first has already ruined it. How... Well, remember Zuko's speech. You know the speech I'm talking about. Zuko's _"The people of the Earth Kingdom are proud and strong. They can endure anything as long as they have hope."_

We'll from the imprisoned earthbenders scene in the first movie it's pretty fucking obvious that they can't endure jack shit! Nor do they seem to have any pride whatsoever since they just plumb gave the fuck up cause there weren't no one around to remind them "Hey, shitbrains, you can bend earth!"

How can they possibly convince anyone in any upcoming movie that the citizens of the Earth Kingdom are strong and resilient when we've already been shown that they're about as strong and resilient as a paper mache vagina.

Here's how the war meeting scene in the third movie will probably go (despite the fact that it won't get made).

- - - - - - - - - -

Fire Lord Ozai: Prince Zuko, you’ve been among the Earth Kingdom commoners. Do you think that adding more troops will stop these rebellionsF

Zuko: Shit yeah. I mean, holy fuck, don't you remember when we had those earthbenders trapped in a not prison surrounded by billions of tons of the one thing only they can use as a weapon and they didn't do a damn thing cause they were scared of the five guards and their campfire!?

Fire Lord Ozai: Oh, ok. Sooo, then the wars pretty much done and we don't have to bother doing anything.

Zuko: Shit dog, why even waste the energy on those limp dishrags. In fact, since those fuckers are pretty much functionally retarded, it was probably in their best interest that we conquered them and put them in camps. That way they can't hurt themselves.

Azula: Christ. I was thinking that maybe we should burn their cities down... but there so pathetic even I feel kinda bad for em.

Zuko: Yeah dad. Banishing me was the best thing you could have done for my life. It put me on the right path. I've seen that this war really was in the worlds best interest. Sorry I ever doubted you.

Ozai: Give me a hug son, then let us all go hunt the Avatar together, your sister included.

Azula: Yeah, a happy ending for everyone.

The End!


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 31, 2010)

> But how or why would you bother with a sequel when they've already screwed up the source material irreparably.



This comes down to how much you feel they screwed up the source material. It should be noted that this has happened before, much worse than TLA.

"Jurassic Park 2" for example raped its source material(although for once, I kind of prefer the movie here). JP3 followed.

Or just think about how bad the Friday the 13th movies and Nightmare on Elm Street movies became in comparison to its predecessor. That didnt stop them from being made.



> He's changed the physics of the bending making it practically useless. Benders have to dance around for several seconds just to make pidley shit happen. It took 7 earthbenders to move a 50 pound stone! You know what would have been more useful than that... one normal guy picking it up and throwing it.



Only rabid fanboys care about that kind of stuff. I watched most of the first season and all of the 2nd season and I didn't really notice how much was changed until you guys brought it up, and even then, I didn't care.

I just took it as "the more dancing it takes to bend, the more inexperienced" you are. Not everyone does elaborate moves to do something simple. The people who struggled to summon that rock were weak benders. Which imo, makes more sense when dealing with martial artists. 



> Firebenders can't produce their own flames therefore making them less threatening and apparently the big bad terror of Sozins comet will... just make them as strong as they already where in the show.



This did bug me too a bit, but I can see why they did it(it shows that Iroh is not to be fucked with; and gives Zuko something he can achieve sooner. Tbf, I always thought the whole lightning thing was pretty random in itself).

But you're being biased and unfair in this comment. Remember that in this movie, they are still the strongest nation and presumably as strong as they were within the show. They explained this fairly well in the movie and bitching is just pure fanboy nitpicking.

Imo, it works better that way in a sense. One major point of firebenders is that they are an industrial lot with heavy machinery. Having them just spurt out flames makes a lot of the potential there kind of pointless.

Plus, it's possible that creating fire like that isnt an easy Special effect to pull off.



> There's so much more, but my point is, the worlds already been ruined. I just don't see that it's possible to salvage it even if you get another director, you're still stuck working in the shit-Avatarverse that already been established by the first movie.



You sound like a fanboy grasping for attacks. Yeah, it changed some stuff, but for an adaptation, it was unusually faithful to the source material(in story, not in tone). 

Adaptations suffer because there are so many little things that cartoons lack that movies have, and vice versa. Example, if the movie kept the shows sense of humor, the sudden dramatic ending would feel out-of-place and schizo. 

There needs to be more bursts of intensity. How does one establish that Iroh is unusually strong without spoiling the lightning attack? Have a fight? Not enough time. 

A cartoon can focus on multiple characters individually(like switching between Zuko and Aang). A movie can't do that as much. It's Aang's story, so screentime has to be taken from guys like Zuko and Iroh.

I just dont think most of you appreciate what makes a movie work, and why adapting another medium is likely going to result in failure. If you change too much, you get Dragonball Evolution. If you don't change enough, you get Dragonball: The Magic Begins. It's a lose lose situation.

It's funny, because there is a lot to bitch about this movie. I just dont think people are really bitching for the right reasons.


> You could do a reboot, but from the studio's perspective, why bother?



Screw the studios, from a fans perspective, a reboot would be WAY too soon. Wait 10-20 years and then we'll talk. 





> ...and for the sake of argument, lets jump ahead to the third movie. The first has already ruined it. How... Well, remember Zuko's speech. You know the speech I'm talking about. Zuko's _"The people of the Earth Kingdom are proud and strong. They can endure anything as long as they have hope."_
> 
> We'll from the imprisoned earthbenders scene in the first movie it's pretty fucking obvious that they can't endure jack shit! Nor do they seem to have any pride whatsoever since they just plumb gave the fuck up cause there weren't no one around to remind them "Hey, shitbrains, you can bend earth!"
> 
> How can they possibly convince anyone in any upcoming movie that the citizens of the Earth Kingdom are strong and resilient when we've already been shown that they're about as strong and resilient as a paper mache vagina.



Easy. Show a scene where they show they are utter badass. It's not that hard. In the context of things, when we saw them, they had probably been broken for quite some time. Furthermore, despite the fact they were Earthbenders, there only appears to have been 2 decent ones among them(as a whole group could barely lift a rock; one creates a shield that barely is able to save him and the other creates a pretty powerful shield that completely stops the attack).

You forget that while they are Earthbenders, they were earthbenders of various skills. They even kidnapped weak kid benders. But the Fire Benders there were trained soldiers, who still put up a fight despite fighting multiple Earth Benders and Aang's group. 

In fact, without Aang's group, they probably would've lost. Now if these guys were supposed to be trained Earth kingdom soldiers as well, you might have a point. But they were presumably civilian benders. So how is this such a surprise?

The rest of your post is just fanboy tardism, so I wont bother responding.

In short, it's a bad movie, but you're being an unreasonable fan.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 31, 2010)

MartialHorror I strongly recommend you watch the series in its entirety.


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## Superrazien (Jul 31, 2010)

I think the movie made enough money to prove the name Avatar The Last Airbender is bankable, so it's possible it could get a reboot at some point. Studios do like money, but they are not entirely stupid. A sequel to this movie wont make money, just about everyone hated this, it has some of the worst reviews in years, and the target audience (the fan base) for the most part despises this.

Sequels usually have a bigger budget than the first, and the first is barely making back its budget, and the only reason its doing moderately decent is because of the name a lone. I don't think a studio is just going to poor millions in a movie they know will flop. Oh and anyone who thinks DVD sales are going to save this are on drugs. It will probably do as well on DVD as Dragonball Evolution.


@MartialHorror

You seem to have the stance that changing shit is ok, just cause its an adaption, and to a point your right. There is however no point in changing needless things. An example is Dragonball Evolution, why did Goku have to be in highschool? Or do you think Lord of the Rings would of been good if all the Hobits were 6 foot tall, and could scream out sonic waves?

They changed shit in Avatar with no reason in mind, other than to piss off fans it seems. First off they didn't even have the main purpose of the entire series (master all the elements before summers end). Firebenders need a source? Wtf this isn't X-Men. I really could go on, but I think I made my point.


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## Narcissus (Jul 31, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Aw man, I loved Samurai Jack so much, and I always did love Aku. pek



Aku was hilarious. 

As for the movie, a sequel is still possible, though I'd rather they not. I don't really want to see the series butchered any more.


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## The Potential (Jul 31, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Definitely.
> 
> I barely, barely noticed that Iroh wasn't Mako (you know when lol), and when Mako died (May you rest in peace ) I thought they'd end the show. Its nice that _someone_ could do Iroh almost as great as Mako.



Yes I know exactly when.. Cause i didn't notice either..


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## VerdantVenus (Jul 31, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> I think the movie made enough money to prove the name Avatar The Last Airbender is bankable, so it's possible it could get a reboot at some point. Studios do like money, but they are not entirely stupid. A sequel to this movie wont make money, just about everyone hated this, it has some of the worst reviews in years, and the target audience (the fan base) for the most part despises this.
> 
> Sequels usually have a bigger budget than the first, and the first is barely making back its budget, and the only reason its doing moderately decent is because of the name a lone. I don't think a studio is just going to poor millions in a movie they know will flop. Oh and anyone who thinks DVD sales are going to save this are on drugs. It will probably do as well on DVD as Dragonball Evolution.
> 
> ...


......

Should I be ashamed for wanting to see that actually?


----------



## Quaero (Jul 31, 2010)

I present you to the many faces of Korra!


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## MartialHorror (Jul 31, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> @MartialHorror
> 
> You seem to have the stance that changing shit is ok, just cause its an adaption, and to a point your right. There is however no point in changing needless things. An example is Dragonball Evolution, why did Goku have to be in highschool? Or do you think Lord of the Rings would of been good if all the Hobits were 6 foot tall, and could scream out sonic waves?
> 
> They changed shit in Avatar with no reason in mind, other than to piss off fans it seems. First off they didn't even have the main purpose of the entire series (master all the elements before summers end). Firebenders need a source? Wtf this isn't X-Men. I really could go on, but I think I made my point.



There is a difference between what you consider poor changes and what I consider poor changes. DBE is a horrible comparison.

Having Goku being a high school kid completely ruins the character. DBE seemed to be made by people who never watched the show, but were told about it.......like 10 years ago and were going off memory(or maybe they hated the show and wanted to do something they felt was more commercial). 

What does "The Last Airbender" change? That most fire benders can't summon fire, but only can manipulate. That's a pretty small change. That's just M. Night trying to improve(in his opinion) on a smaller thing while still showing respect overall to the source material.

And they did explain that change, for the record. 

Having Hobbits being 6 ft tall and firing Sonic beams would ruin the point of what a hobbit is. 

I believe you guys are just nitpicking. You hate the movie so dissect it piece by piece. That's your choice, but dont make rediculous comparisons in the process.


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## Superrazien (Jul 31, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> There is a difference between what you consider poor changes and what I consider poor changes. DBE is a horrible comparison.
> 
> Having Goku being a high school kid completely ruins the character. DBE seemed to be made by people who never watched the show, but were told about it.......like 10 years ago and were going off memory(or maybe they hated the show and wanted to do something they felt was more commercial).
> 
> ...



Um how about they changed everyone's character to the point that they are not that character. Everyone was dull, there was no humor what so ever, Katara was just a tool not a strong female character. Zuko barely had a scar which defines his character for a while. Also changing how the fire-benders bend completely changes the fire-bender philosophy of inner fire, and how they are fueled by the Sun. At least in Dragonball Evolution they tried to give the characters the same traits as the anime, Goku was kind of goofy, Bulma was bitch, Roshi was a perv, Yamcha was ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). ATLA didn't even try it is the true definition of rape.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 31, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Um how about they changed everyone's character to the point that they are not that character. Everyone was dull, there was no humor what so ever, Katara was just a tool not a strong female character. Zuko barely had a scar which defines his character for a while. Also changing how the fire-benders bend completely changes the fire-bender philosophy of inner fire, and how they are fueled by the Sun. At least in Dragonball Evolution they tried to give the characters the same traits as the anime, Goku was kind of goofy, Bulma was bitch, Roshi was a perv, Yamcha was ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). ATLA didn't even try it is the true definition of rape.



Haven't I already explained the logic behind the lack of humor......A lot? In the TV show, you can have episodes that are humor oriented and episodes that are dramatic. In movies, that kind of going back and forth would make for a rather schizophrenic tone.

Katara: I dont get the bitching here. A tool and not a strong female? Even though she was holding off Zuko for awhile and even ended up freezing him at the end? 

Zuko: Actually, the movie scar looks more realistic than the cartoon scar. Also, a nastier looking scar could've probably forced the movie into a PG-13 rating. Unreasonable complaint,.

Firebending: Except at its core, it's still the same. It's just harder for weaker firebenders to summon it from nothing. 

You're flat out wrong about DBE and are REALLY stretching here. Sure, Roshi is a perv. But Bulma was a serious, tough, brooding action girl. Goku is a love sick, normal high school boy. Yamcha isn't shown to be a womanizer or even afraid of women(you're ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) comment just shows how desperate you are here).........So you're stuck there. I dont even know why you'd bother arguing that.


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## Wesley (Jul 31, 2010)

I thought Firebending was caused by friction?


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## Terra Branford (Jul 31, 2010)

> Having Goku being a high school kid completely ruins the character. DBE seemed to be made by people who never watched the show, but were told about it.......like 10 years ago and were going off memory(or maybe they hated the show and wanted to do something they felt was more commercial).



It definitely ruined it for me. I wanted to see the mannerless boy we saw in the show (freshly out of the woods lol), even the idiotic part of him 



Quaero said:


> I present you to the many faces of Korra!



That creeps me out


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## Piekage (Jul 31, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Firebending: Except at its core, it's still the same. It's just harder for weaker firebenders to summon it from nothing.



Except making such a needless change adds a glaringly obvious wallbanger, because all anyone needs to do is put out the fire, which is incredibly easy if your slinging around large ammounts of earth or water.

I don't mind/I understand a lot of the changes the movie made, but that and keeping Earthbenders imprisoned on earth are ones that make no sense whatsoever.



> I thought Firebending was caused by friction?



Nope. Firebending is manipulating your inner fire (chi, ki, chakra, whatever you want to call it) to summon or control fire.


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## Mider T (Jul 31, 2010)

MH are you serious?  Zuko's scar looks more realistic in the movie?


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## MartialHorror (Jul 31, 2010)

Peikage: Well, yeah, it creates a plot hole. But thats a different complaint all together. As I said, it's fine to bitch about the movie. It deserves it. But people aren't bitching about the plot holes it creates, they're bitching because it's not identical to the show. 

Mider T: Personally, I don't know. It has been brought up by a lot of people but I remember hearing somewhere that M. Night appparently intentionally went that way(although to be honest, the whole idea is a bit lame. Zuko would probably be blind)


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## Piekage (Jul 31, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Peikage: Well, yeah, it creates a plot hole. But thats a different complaint all together. As I said, it's fine to bitch about the movie. It deserves it. But people aren't bitching about the plot holes it creates, they're bitching because it's not identical to the show.



I wouldn't know. I've only ever complained about the movie on it's own faults.


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## Superrazien (Jul 31, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Haven't I already explained the logic behind the lack of humor......A lot? In the TV show, you can have episodes that are humor oriented and episodes that are dramatic. In movies, that kind of going back and forth would make for a rather schizophrenic tone.



Well obviously I know they can't have as much humor as the show or anything, but in a show full of humor because its targeted at kids. To have the movie with no humor at all, well not to sound corny but thats just sad.



> Katara: I dont get the bitching here. A tool and not a strong female? Even though she was holding off Zuko for awhile and even ended up freezing him at the end?



Yup she held off Zuko, and then got him from behind. That totally makes her a strong female character. When I say not a strong female character I mean strong internally. Katara is not outspoken, doesn't have that take no shit attitude. Every scene she was in she was about to cry. 




> Zuko: Actually, the movie scar looks more realistic than the cartoon scar. Also, a nastier looking scar could've probably forced the movie into a PG-13 rating. Unreasonable complaint,.



Obviously a *CARTOON* scar can't look realistic. But it was pretty much suppose to be a 3rd degree burn, if you ever seen a 3rd degree burn you will know that the movie looks nothing even close to it.


> Firebending: Except at its core, it's still the same. It's just harder for weaker firebenders to summon it from nothing.



Um except its not. There is no talk about them gaining there strength from the sun, or using there internal flame. Plus like someone else said it makes for stupid plot point. Like why doesn't everyone just put out the fire sources.



> You're flat out wrong about DBE and are REALLY stretching here. Sure, Roshi is a perv. But Bulma was a serious, tough, brooding action girl. Goku is a love sick, normal high school boy. Yamcha isn't shown to be a womanizer or even afraid of women(you're ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) comment just shows how desperate you are here).........So you're stuck there. I dont even know why you'd bother arguing that.



Ok so Bulma was serious at least thats one trait similar to her character unlike anyone from TLA. Goku's not a normal high school boy, in fact that's the whole point of the movie of how he is not normal, but at least he is a little goofy at times. The ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) comment was meant to convey that I don't like Yamcha in the Anime, so to me him being a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in the movie is a similar character trait. It was a poor attempt at humor.



> MH are you serious? Zuko's scar looks more realistic in the movie?



It is if Zuko was attacked by a cat.


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## Terra Branford (Jul 31, 2010)

Mider T said:


> MH are you serious?  Zuko's scar looks more realistic in the movie?



I found his scar in the movie to be totally unrealistic and `tarded. They only did it to show off Petal's (?) "looks" you can tell by how small they made it 

I wanted to see the massive, burn mark on his face. The burn mark was Zuko's appearance trademark


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Katara: I dont get the bitching here. A tool and not a strong female? Even though she was holding off Zuko for awhile and even ended up freezing him at the end?



The adaption of Katara was outrageous genderfail, and her character was essentially worthless. And she didn't hold him off at all; she performed some awkward bending and was almost immediately overpowered.



MartialHorror said:


> Zuko: Actually, the movie scar looks more realistic than the cartoon scar. Also, a nastier looking scar could've probably forced the movie into a PG-13 rating. Unreasonable complaint,.



It was barely noticeable. Totally reasonable complaint.

The firebending stuff, the significance of this change has been explained far too many times. It's not a frivolous complaint. And even removed from the philosophy of the show, it's inherently illogical on it's own. I figured it was going to have a payoff for Zuko, but it turned out to simple be a totally idiotic change to canon.


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2010)

At this point, we should just start rebuking MH's points by making stuff up and saying it happened in Book 3.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 31, 2010)

> Well obviously I know they can't have as much humor as the show or anything, but in a show full of humor because its targeted at kids. To have the movie with no humor at all, well not to sound corny but thats just sad.



What do you expect them to do? Cut out the whole ending? Wouldn't that piss off fans even more? Here is what I mean.

You can make it humorous, but you have to make sure that the ending isn't meant to be dramatic or sad....at all. This is why most adaptations change A LOT from the story.

Now, a movie like "Kickass" can do it. An adult movie can get away with it. But even then, that humor usually forshadows the bleakness by making the humor more dark. "Kickass" had a very black sense of humor.

Could "The Last Airbender" do that? No, as you said, it's a kids movie. 

Now personally, I loved the shows humor and am dismayed it was gone for the movie. But you simply can't fit that kind of story into a single movie and somehow have that humor as well.




> Yup she held off Zuko, and then got him from behind. That totally makes her a strong female character. When I say not a strong female character I mean strong internally. Katara is not outspoken, doesn't have that take no shit attitude. Every scene she was in she was about to cry.



Last I checked, it was her that convinced Sokka to go rescue Aang. She  is shown to be willfull, brave and independant. She isn't particularly a well written or dynamic character, but your "she's not strong internally" comment is obviously wrong.




> Obviously a *CARTOON* scar can't look realistic. But it was pretty much suppose to be a 3rd degree burn, if you ever seen a 3rd degree burn you will know that the movie looks nothing even close to it.



Find me a PG rated movie with a realistic 3rd degree burn.



> Um except its not. There is no talk about them gaining there strength from the sun, or using there internal flame. Plus like someone else said it makes for stupid plot point. Like why doesn't everyone just put out the fire sources.



Remember that Aang is the main character and the fire benders are his enemies. Where would stating that the fire bending coming from the sun fit that wouldn't make it sound like crappy exposition?



> Ok so Bulma was serious at least thats one trait similar to her character unlike anyone from TLA. Goku's not a normal high school boy, in fact that's the whole point of the movie of how he is not normal, but at least he is a little goofy at times. The ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) comment was meant to convey that I don't like Yamcha in the Anime, so to me him being a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in the movie is a similar character trait. It was a poor attempt at humor.



Except she wasn't. Oh, she tried to be. But Bulma was pretty much a wild, adventurous teenaged girl. She ended up being the butt of many jokes and was overall, a goofy character. Even when said jokes were disturbingly tasteless(rape). 

Even if Goku was goofy, it wasnt Goku's kind of goofy. And he is pretty much a normal high school kid(albeit a super strong one). Your ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) comment can be seen as offensive, and it shows that you have no argument. You dont like him in the anime and you dont like him in the movie, so that's supposed to make him similar? Yeah....

In TLA, the characters are pretty much the same except they've lost their souls. In the cartoon, they can be dynamic. You see characters like Aang being serious and being very hard to take seriously, you see Katara being the strong chick as well as the pety chick(also, you see her as the voice of reason and the emotionally charged person). You see Iroh get to be a general badass, but then be able to sit back and enjoy life.

In the movie, they get comments and signs suggesting they are supposed to be the same as their cartoon counterparts. There is just no time to flesh them out because there is too much plot to get through. 

I find it odd that you never bring up the obvious: Sokka. You get to see serious Sokka a lot, but rarely the comedic Sokka(which was why I liked him in the cartoon). 

"The Last Airbender", as well as its characters, is pretty much the hollow shell of the cartoon. It's the cartoon stripped of its charm and soul. But otherwise, it is a faithful adaptation and probably the most faithful adaptation from cartoon/anime to movie out there. 

It is if Zuko was attacked by a cat.[/QUOTE]


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## MartialHorror (Jul 31, 2010)

Jove said:


> The adaption of Katara was outrageous genderfail, and her character was essentially worthless. And she didn't hold him off at all; she performed some awkward bending and was almost immediately overpowered.



Er, she DID hold him off. Sure, she lost. But for a novice bender fighting the Prince of the fire nation, that's pretty impressive.





> It was barely noticeable. Totally reasonable complaint.



Not when you're dealing with a PG movie. A cartoon can actually be more violent and for some reason, get away with it. I remember thinking that animated "Beowulf" movie had graphic violence, but that was PG-13.

The burn people are asking for would be too grotesque in a movie thats already pushing it.



> The firebending stuff, the significance of this change has been explained far too many times. It's not a frivolous complaint. And even removed from the philosophy of the show, it's inherently illogical on it's own. I figured it was going to have a payoff for Zuko, but it turned out to simple be a totally idiotic change to canon.



It was ultimately a pay-off for Iroh, who at that point, had yet to show his abilities. 

Zuko actually does use some of it if I recall, although he cant generate a full flame(he melts the ice with his hands).

Dont complain about the firebending thing having to be explained far too many times when I've pretty much repeated the same argument far too many times. It's what happens in a huge thread like this.


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## Burke (Jul 31, 2010)

Quaero said:


> I present you to the many faces of Korra!



I saw rage face, i saw the face from that egoraptor video, i saw zoidberg, and the brain slug on the head lol

and aku and weegee and dexters dad and aladin and sonic and rorschark

and the predator and a cat and the awesome face and ernie and helga pataki and XD

and lots of random wtf faces


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Er, she DID hold him off. Sure, she lost. But for a novice bender fighting the Prince of the fire nation, that's pretty impressive.
> 
> Dont complain about the firebending thing having to be explained far too many times when I've pretty much repeated the same argument far too many times. It's what happens in a huge thread like this.



You must be talking about a completely different scene, because Katara was easily defeated by Zuko at the Spirit Oasis.

In Book 3, there's an episode that justifies complaining about the repeated explanation of firebending. When you see it, you'll understand.


----------



## Burke (Aug 1, 2010)

Wait... MH didnt watch the whole series?

Leave


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## VerdantVenus (Aug 1, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I saw rage face, i saw the face from that egoraptor video, i saw zoidberg, and the brain slug on the head lol
> 
> and aku and weegee and dexters dad and aladin and sonic and rorschark
> 
> ...



What, no comment on the hentai face and giant tits?


----------



## Burke (Aug 1, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What, no comment on the hentai face and giant tits?



I guess my "scroll the screen so it lags" tecnique didnt catch that


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 1, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> What do you expect them to do? Cut out the whole ending? Wouldn't that piss off fans even more? Here is what I mean.
> 
> You can make it humorous, but you have to make sure that the ending isn't meant to be dramatic or sad....at all. This is why most adaptations change A LOT from the story.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

So you pretty much just confirmed its not like the cartoon, with no charm, and soul in these characters its pretty much useless since its a character driven show. Also for the record as I said many times before, the movie doesn't even follow the story of the show. We only hear a brief mention of Sozens comet at the end of the movie. The whole point of the series is for Aang to master all forms of bending before summers end. The movie however just has him going to learn water bending cause hes the Avatar and that's what Avatars do. 

Oh and how the F do you not have Avatar Roku in the dam movie. That alone is enough to know they are pissing on the fans.


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## VerdantVenus (Aug 1, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I guess my "scroll the screen so it lags" tecnique didnt catch that


Actually, I just have the animator's vision <.<


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## Terra Branford (Aug 1, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Wait... MH didnt watch the whole series?
> 
> Leave


He still watched some of it, so we should respect his opinion and look at it. I don't think he has to finish the show for him to know how special it is....right?
Unless you (@ MH) didn't even watch Season 2 fully, or are you at least starting it up?


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## VerdantVenus (Aug 1, 2010)

Deanimated by yours truly


----------



## Burke (Aug 1, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Deanimated by yours truly



How did Reikai do that!?


----------



## Mider T (Aug 1, 2010)

He sacrificed his "life" card and summoned the "too much time" trap card and put it in defense.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 1, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> This comes down to how much you feel they screwed up the source material. It should be noted that this has happened before, much worse than TLA.
> 
> "Jurassic Park 2" for example raped its source material(although for once, I kind of prefer the movie here). JP3 followed.
> 
> Or just think about how bad the Friday the 13th movies and Nightmare on Elm Street movies became in comparison to its predecessor. That didnt stop them from being made.



Yeah... ?

See, were talking about Last Airbender here. Don't see what bringing up other movies that are decidedly _not_ The Last Airbender (adaptation or not) has anything to do with this conversation. 




> Only rabid fanboys care about that kind of stuff.



Only rabid fanboys care about drastic changes to the source material for no apparent reason?



> I watched most of the first season and all of the 2nd season and I didn't really notice how much was changed until you guys brought it up, and even then, I didn't care.



Then you watched either the show or the movie with your eyes closed. Even friends of mine who have only seen the show in passing (such as commercials and channel flipping) asked me why they changed the way bending was done in the movie. 



> I just took it as "the more dancing it takes to bend, the more inexperienced" you are. Not everyone does elaborate moves to do something simple. The people who struggled to summon that rock were weak benders. Which imo, makes more sense when dealing with martial artists.



IT DOESN'T TAKE DANCING TO BEND... AT ALL! Nor does it take "elaborate moves".  That's part of my fucking point!

In the show, bending is simply an extension of the martial art. A character throws a punch and a fireball shoots out, Aang slices his hand and an airblade shoots out cuts something in half. An earthbender stomps the ground and a wall erupts from the earth. 

That's how bending is supposed to work. The fight scenes were quick paced action packed and flowed like a martial arts fight scene should. 

What we get in the movie is _You got Served_... with magic. Explain to me how that style (the movie style) is supposed to be used in up close combat when each move takes 2-5 seconds to dance out. Why wouldn't I just punch the guy in the face while he;s busy trying to pirouette out a fireball. 

Just watch this clip;


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## MartialHorror (Aug 1, 2010)

(Read the next post first. Had to cut it in half)



> What, becoming almost as useful as he already was in the first episode of the show?



*sigh* Havent I already explained this? The power ratio is still the same. The Fire Nation still kicks the crap out of everyone until Aang shows up. The dynamics are different, but the FN isn't any weaker for it. 



> Did you pay attention to the episode wherein Iroh specifically explain how lightning bending works. In conjunction with his explanation (to Zuko) in the first episode that Firebending is essentially a conversion of internal energy, it really makes a lot of sense.



That doesn't change it from being a blatant duex ex machina.



> First, they didn't explain anything fairly well in the movie. I watched it with a friend of mine that hadn't seen the show. He didn't have the first fucking clue as to what was going on. Keep in mind that this is someone who has double masters degrees in engineering and architecture, and is probably one of the smartest people I know. So the fault in understanding wasn't his.
> 
> Second, and in reference to the bolded part. How? How are they "presumably as strong as they were within the show"? Put out there fire and they're fucked! Not being able to produce their own fire is a pretty severe handicap. The only reason it seems they were able to keep this war going is because everyone else is stupid.
> 
> ...



Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree, the movie, despite being 90% exposition, didnt explain everything and often explained it poorly. That is a valid criticism. I didn't like the movie, if thats what you're thinking. 

I didn't hate it, but most of all, I respect that it was a failed venture from the beginning. You cannot adapt a show without changes or it would suck, but if you change too much, it will still suck. Thats why adaptations usually are lose, lose situations.

I support people bitching about this movie: Amaturish acting, crappy dialogue, weak exposition, poor scripting and questionable directing. 

But I think nitpickers on the issue don't respect the difference between what can be done in a TV show and what can be done in a movie. 

As for your 2nd point, I explained that earlier too. It's a plot hole. But seriously, people aren't bitching about that as much as the fact they changed it at all. 



> I... what? I don't even understand what point you're trying to make here.



The FN is the most high tech of the nations. I like the idea of fire projectiles that the benders can use to manipulate their element. It would've been better, imo, if the show used this more. Otherwise, the advanced technology feels random and comes across as a plot device(so they can build a drill to break through the wall, etc).




> Then don't make a motherfuck movie about a bunch of motherfuckers that can motherfucking shoot fire out of their motherfucking hands!!!
> 
> Jesus Christ! I don't beg my friends to go to Red Lobster for dinner then complain that there's nothing but fish on the menu!



Agreed. But for different reasons. As said, I just dont care about minor things like that. I just think adapting the series at all was a dumb idea, and reboots aren't going to fix it.  



> Only in so much as some of the characters had the same names... and in most cases they couldn't even get that right.



Settings, plot, characters, visual style and identical events. Thats being faithful. 

List all the live action movie adaptations of anime and try to compare. Even "Death Note", which is vastly superior to all of them, had to change a lot(although I felt the changes were for the better). 



> The show seemed to manage balancing those aspects just fine.



I-....you-........have you read anything I've said? THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT MEDIUMS!

A show CAN get away with balancing that. Each episode can establish its own tone. A movie CANNOT do that well unless the kind of humor fits the events(so a black comedy can also be a downer).

A book, for example, doesn't need to have a sheer climax near the end. A movie does. A show can have multiple tones per episode, a movie cannot alternate.

Otherwise you get movies like "Click", which the first half and 2nd half feel like they belong in two different movies. And kids movies would even be worse trying to do that.



> Really? Not enough time to throw in a fight scene that would need to last all of 30 seconds to show he's a badass.



Actually, no. There wouldn't be. All events in a movie MUST relate back to the main character. 



> You're honestly trying to argue that a movie couldn't waste time developing THREE FUCKING CHARACTERS! An argument I especially can't take seriously since the movie didn't even take the time to develop ONE!
> 
> The first five minutes of the TV show has more character development for Sokka, Aang and Katara than the entire movie was able to manage for ANYONE!



It can. But it has to relate back to the protagonist. Developing Katara and Sokka would be easy, because they are important to the protagonist. Developing Zuko all the way(imo, one of the few things the movie does right is developing Zuko as they did) is too early because right now, he's a sub-villain. 

Granted, M. Night failed in terms of developing any of them. In refering to converting and adapting at all, not at how well M. Night executed it.


> Well, M. Night certainly doesn't.



Why would you make such a pointless comment when I can point out that his first 3 movies were praised, his next 3 were considered okay by the masses and it's only THIS ONE that people hate?

See? Fanboyism. You forget the full scope of M. Night's filmography and go as if this is his one movie. Or you're refering to his previous few films, which you may hate but that is an opinion not shared by the masses. 

So why would you even try to bring this up?



> Bullshit!
> 
> A good writer and good directer (especially if they're the same person) can make even the most ridiculous concept work. Peter Jackson is a talented director with a great appreciation and respect for the source materiel he adapted (Lord of the Rings... in case you didn't know). M. Night Shyamalan is a hack who made a bunch of inexplicable changes to the source material cause he had no respect for it and thought he understood the soul of the source material better than the guys who fucking created it!



And you know what? Fans STILL bitch about Lotr's changes. No Tom Bambodil(or whatever his name was)? Crap! Even though Tom would never EVER EVER EVER work in a movie adaptation. 

But LOTR was exceptional and, fairly easy to adapt into a movie structure. But even if it wasn't, you're listing ONE great example. 

(and for the record, I do think that LOTR 2 and 3 struggled a bit with it. Things that worked in the book felt way too random in the movie). 

Even if I didnt like the movies, bitching about that kind of stuff(like Tom) is stupid and pety. 

The rest of your post is simply proof of your unreasonable, biased hatred of the film. You dont want to discuss. You want to bitch, to flame, and when someone calls anybody out on it, you take your anger on them.



> I don't care how inexperienced or broken they were, all they had to do was throw some dirt in the damn fire cauldron and the firebenders are fucked! Like I said earlier, since they've been so drastically handicapped by their dependence on an outside source, even civilian bender should have no problem handing them their asses once that source has been dealt with!



HAHAHAHAHAHA- Oh, you're serious. okay, how to explain this....lol....Ever notice how it takes forever for a country to stand up against a tyranical ruler even though they obviously have the better manpower? The soldiers rarely come close to having the same numbers of the overall population. Yet Governments always hold so much control. It's because of personal fear they will die, and leading a revolt will only lead to such.

Hell, China always seems to lose wars to everyone else. How did Japan conquer that big of a nation? In fact, someone is always conquering China despite its vast numbers. Fear does things to you man. Logic burns out and it comes down to self preservation. 




> Cause I expected an adaptation to be at least remotely faithful to it's source material?



No, because you hate a movie so much for changing small things that you confuse them with the big picture.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 1, 2010)

So you pretty much just confirmed its not like the cartoon, with no charm, and soul in these characters its pretty much useless since its a character driven show. Also for the record as I said many times before, the movie doesn't even follow the story of the show. We only hear a brief mention of Sozens comet at the end of the movie. The whole point of the series is for Aang to master all forms of bending before summers end. The movie however just has him going to learn water bending cause hes the Avatar and that's what Avatars do. 

Oh and how the F do you not have Avatar Roku in the dam movie. That alone is enough to know they are pissing on the fans.[/QUOTE]

lol, you say "it doesn't even follow the story of the show" and then continue to nitpick. 

The whole Sozen's comet thing was introduced pretty late- which was kind of lame in a duex ex machina kind of way, but there was really no need to address it early. In fact, considering how long it took the show to FINALLY get to that point, I'd actually take away points from the show with it. 

What's the point of having them learn all of the bending before the comet comes? To make it a race against time. This is supposed to heighten the drama and keep things faced paced and intense. 

Yet "Avatar: The Last Airbender" is one leisurely paced show. Hell, the plot often doesn't even get moving until the end of the series. That's fine, because as you said, its a character driven show and the episodes are entertaining so it works. But seriously, 80-90% of the episodes are ultimately filler. Really, was the whole sozen's comet thing really necessary? At least in the first season anyway. It did nothing for the pace or story. 

It's a harmless fault, if it is a fault at all. But if they dropped that on us early in the movie, the casual movie goer would expect that shit to happen in the movie they're watching. Then would be confused/disappointed when it didn't happen.

Imagine if Roland Emmerich's "2012" was a trilogy. but the actual destruction day didnt happen until the 3rd movie. The first two movies would be build up. That was piss A LOT of people off. 

So putting it at the end of the movie makes more sense cinematically, especially as we've spent the last 30 minutes learning the water benders big advantage.  It makes us ask: What is the Fire Benders big trump card?

Although personally, if it was me writing it, I wouldn't have had fire Lord Ozai exposit everything that happens due to it(all firebenders being able to summon flames). More mystery would've been better.

As to how they should've done it in the show......Well, dropping it early made it seem pointless as it did nothing to heighten the intensity or speed up the pace. However, revealing it in Season 3 would make it seem like a duex ex machina. Maybe if the characters were worried about what the Fire Nations trump card was because they didn't know, but find out Season 3? I dunno.

The Avatar Roku thing did confuse me. I guess a dragon is supposed to be more impressive. Maybe they were worried casual movie goers would be confused about the reincarnation thing? (For some reason, westerners think of reincarnation as being you look and act identical to your former self).

But if that was the reason, it's not a very good one. Although I still will point out that is one little plot device(one which always kind of bored me in the show).



> Yeah... ?
> 
> See, were talking about Last Airbender here. Don't see what bringing up other movies that are decidedly not The Last Airbender (adaptation or not) has anything to do with this conversation.



As plenty of people keep doing this to me(with crappy comparisons with DBE, for example), I dont see why not. Especially if it is relevant to the argument. My issue isnt that people hate this movie, it's that people don't respect the plights of an adaptation. 

Imo, a "Last Airbender" movie would not work without severe changes.



> Only rabid fanboys care about drastic changes to the source material for no apparent reason?



I'd sympathize with this if I didn't explain most of said reasons. I'd also sympathize if the pointless changes ruined the movie. Example, changing Goku into a High School kid ruins the point of the character. 

Manipulating the fire bending rules might annoy fans, but it's a stupid reason to hate an entire movie for. 



> Then you watched either the show or the movie with your eyes closed. Even friends of mine who have only seen the show in passing (such as commercials and channel flipping) asked me why they changed the way bending was done in the movie.



Using "your friends" as examples, I'm pretty sure is a logical fallacy. Plus, I have to assume you're not lying(which believe it or not, lying to prove a point is annoyingly common on the web). 

Actually, I flat out disbelieve it. As if they only watched it in passing, I doubt they would've had that much information. Unless the episode they watched was the one or two episodes that went into detail of firebending. 



> IT DOESN'T TAKE DANCING TO BEND... AT ALL! Nor does it take "elaborate moves". That's part of my fucking point!
> 
> In the show, bending is simply an extension of the martial art. A character throws a punch and a fireball shoots out, Aang slices his hand and an airblade shoots out cuts something in half. An earthbender stomps the ground and a wall erupts from the earth.
> 
> ...



Yeah, saying dancing was a poor choice of words. I'm aware that it is an extension of a martial art, but let me ask you, how does that work for a weak bender? 

If a weak Earth bender does a quick attack, does a pebble come with it? Do you know anything about martial arts?

Do you know what they're doing when they're training? Kata(or the Chinese equivalent of it). It's simply meant to master the movements.

Have you ever seen a kung fu movie? There are plenty of pointless movies, sometimes they use them to fighten. Other times it is to gain momentum(which the Earthbenders appear to be doing). Have you even noticed that you dont see the rock until their moves are over? It's off-screen. For all you know, each movement could've had its own purpose.



> In the show he actually kicked the crap out of 5 of Zhao's personal guards in 2 seconds. I consider that a bit more "I'm not to be fucked with" than just standing there shooting flames like a pretty fountain while making sure no action happened.



I talked about this with Jove. One awesome scene in the cartoon is when Zuko defeats Zhao and Zhao plays dirty, and Iroh saves him. That alone shows it's badass and you feel for Zuko. Unfortunately, in a movie that would be too out of place. It's Aang's story, not Zuko's, and especially not Iroh's.

So in terms of timing, that would the only way to show off Iroh. Now could they have done more with it? Sure. I would've preferred that Iroh swiftly overpowered Zhao.


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 1, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, you say "it doesn't even follow the story of the show" and then continue to nitpick.



I'm sorry if you think following the shows story line is nitpicking. 



> The whole Sozen's comet thing was introduced pretty late- which was kind of lame in a duex ex machina kind of way, but there was really no need to address it early. In fact, considering how long it took the show to FINALLY get to that point, I'd actually take away points from the show with it.



It was addressed about half way in the show, so it should of been addressed half way in the movie. If you don't understand the importance of Sozens comet then maybe you shouldn't be posting in the Avatar thread. 



> What's the point of having them learn all of the bending before the comet comes? To make it a race against time. This is supposed to heighten the drama and keep things faced paced and intense.



What was the point!? Have you watched the show? Yes it was a race against time, not to mention it shows off how great of a bender Aang. The show would of been bland if Aang could just take his time and master all the bending forms at his leisure. 



> Yet "Avatar: The Last Airbender" is one leisurely paced show. Hell, the plot often doesn't even get moving until the end of the series. That's fine, because as you said, its a character driven show and the episodes are entertaining so it works. But seriously, 80-90% of the episodes are ultimately filler. Really, was the whole sozen's comet thing really necessary? At least in the first season anyway. It did nothing for the pace or story.



Yeah they did have a lot of filler but it was cool. The Sozens comet this was very necessary, it obviously wasn't filler, and it set up the whole point of the show. 



> It's a harmless fault, if it is a fault at all. But if they dropped that on us early in the movie, the casual movie goer would expect that shit to happen in the movie they're watching. Then would be confused/disappointed when it didn't happen.
> 
> Imagine if Roland Emmerich's "2012" was a trilogy. but the actual destruction day didnt happen until the 3rd movie. The first two movies would be build up. That was piss A LOT of people off.
> 
> So putting it at the end of the movie makes more sense cinematically, especially as we've spent the last 30 minutes learning the water benders big advantage.  It makes us ask: What is the Fire Benders big trump card?



By this logic we should of found out Frodo had to destroy the ring at the end of the Fellowship. Or Anakin should of became Darth Vader in Episode 1.


> Although personally, if it was me writing it, I wouldn't have had fire Lord Ozai exposit everything that happens due to it(all firebenders being able to summon flames). More mystery would've been better.



There already was mystery behind the comet in the show. The mystery being how strong everyone will become. 



> As to how they should've done it in the show......Well, dropping it early made it seem pointless as it did nothing to heighten the intensity or speed up the pace. However, revealing it in Season 3 would make it seem like a duex ex machina. Maybe if the characters were worried about what the Fire Nations trump card was because they didn't know, but find out Season 3? I dunno.



No dropping it early set up a time table not only for Aang, but for the show itself, so it didn't go on for like 10 seasons. It's important for a character driven, adventure story to have a time table, and not only that but it makes Aang stand out from other Avatars.



> The Avatar Roku thing did confuse me. I guess a dragon is supposed to be more impressive. Maybe they were worried casual movie goers would be confused about the reincarnation thing? (For some reason, westerners think of reincarnation as being you look and act identical to your former self).
> 
> It's not confusing if you take into account that they obviously didn't give a shit about the source material.
> 
> But if that was the reason, it's not a very good one. Although I still will point out that is one little plot device(one which always kind of bored me in the show).



It's not confusing if you take into account that they obviously didn't give a shit about the source material.

You seem to think that we only hate the movie because of all the changes to the show, which is part of it. It is however just an all around bad movie. If we had a much better movie, with great acting, music, special effects, pacing, and character development, you wouldn't be hear as many people bitching about Fire Bending sources and shit. We however did not get that, we got one of the worst movies made in a long time, and combine that with everything they changed for no reason, it goes to show the only person this movie was targeted for was M.Night. How the hell are you going to make a kids movie and have no humor in it?  Could you imagine if M.Night made Shrek or something?


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## Mider T (Aug 1, 2010)

Sozin's Comet was introduced in the middle of the first season lol


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## Noah (Aug 1, 2010)

Jesus Christ. 

I could've sworn there was a thread dedicated to bitching about the movie awhile ago. Take this tl:dr back and forth bullshit there, or the MH's movie thread, or to PM. Just get that shit out of here. It's a circular argument with neither of you making a decent point.

Take it somewhere else and let everyone go back to their fanwanking.


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## Ms. Jove (Aug 1, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> That doesn't change it from being a blatant duex ex machina.



Wait a goddamn minute.

How, by _any_ definition of the phrase, is lightning-bending a deus ex machina? If you said bloodbending, I might be inclined to agree a bit, but lightning-bending? 

No. Wrong.


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## troublesum-chan (Aug 1, 2010)

movie was shit

end discussion


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## delirium (Aug 1, 2010)

lol Sozen's comet is filler. I like that. That's a good perspective.


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## troublesum-chan (Aug 1, 2010)

i think avatar roku was also filler

thats why mnight didn't have him in the movie

omg mnight is truly an artistic genyus

he sees underneath the underneath


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## Buskuv (Aug 1, 2010)

The Sham was just trimming the fat.

Sokka's so called "personality?"  Filler.
Sozin's Comet?  Obvious filler.
Avatar Roku?  Ultra filler.
Chinese Calligraphy? Who knows Chinese?  Filler.

Now, turning Sokka into a caricature with WORDS WORDS WORDS as his personality?  Edgy.  Creative.  Ditto for Katara.
Turning Avatar Roku into a Dragon?  Everyone likes Dragons.  It's also subtext for something Chinese that The Sham obviously knows about.
Replacing said Chinese characters with nonsense?  Deep, deep stuff, man.

The guy is a genius; I'm sorry you all don't see it.


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## delirium (Aug 1, 2010)

Bending is actually filler, too. Had to cut back on that.


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## VerdantVenus (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm gonna have to ask you guys to dial back the sarcasm, because sarcasm  meters are expensive these days, and I'm not made of money.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 1, 2010)

MH...you aren't saying that Sozen's comet was filler....are you?


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## Burke (Aug 1, 2010)

*Sarcastic Overplode*


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## MartialHorror (Aug 1, 2010)

lol, I'll respond to everything when I get back from work. 

I love how you all take the comet thing out of context. 

I said 80-90% of the show is filler. I then go into asking the necessity of Sozen's comet in the first season. 

As you all say, it's to make a point that Aang needs to hurry and learn all the elements. It's to make things more intense. But in a show thats 80-90% filler, how does that make things more intense?

I then go onto say how I think the device should've been handled. But whatever, are you all so desperate now you have to manipulate my words? It doesn't even look like you read my post, but read Superazien's response instead. Lame guys, lame.


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## Buskuv (Aug 1, 2010)

Naw, I'm not directing it at you.

I just don't like the movie.


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## Mider T (Aug 1, 2010)

Because Aang's job wasn't just to defeat the Firelord, it was to set things right with the rest of the world as well.  To become a fully realized Avatar and to grow up before (or after) his time.


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## Superrazien (Aug 1, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, I'll respond to everything when I get back from work.
> 
> I love how you all take the comet thing out of context.
> 
> ...



The truths lame?


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## Buskuv (Aug 1, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Because Aang's job wasn't just to defeat the Firelord, it was to set things right with the rest of the world as well.  To become a fully realized Avatar and to grow up before (or after) his time.



Pretty much this.

Aang's (and the whole concept of the Avtar) job was to keep balance between the nations and people of the world, not just kick the collective ass of the Fire Nation.   The whole conflict was the fact that the comet was going to make the conquering of the world by the Fire Nation a very real possibility.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 1, 2010)

I want to add something to this...

I think, from my take on it, the episodes where he went to villages and met different people helped Aang develop a worthy bond to make him want to help everyone, not just because he was an Avatar, but because he wanted to help people.

So I think the episodes where he wasn't focusing on kickin' Fire Nation butt (although he constantly was -- training and stuff...), was very important and showed how much Aang cared and how strong, caring and smart he was.

Well...that's what I thought


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 1, 2010)

Just came across this review/analysis/critique from someone named bebopsamurai. It's very similar in tone to those infamous reviews of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones by 

This basically breaks down everything wrong with The Last Airbender. Both on it's own merits as a stand alone movie and as an adaptation.

Part 1: 
Part 2: 
Part 3: 
Part 4: 
Part 5: 

Yeah, it's long, but pretty much spot on as far as I'm concerned.


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## Time Expired (Aug 1, 2010)

That's actually the first clip I've seen of the movie (previously posted by stab-o-tron5000)...no disrespect to those who saw and liked it, but I can't say I cared for it.  

This aside, Mike and Brian really owe the fans a feature length animated movie.  I loved the world they created _in the medium_ in which it was created.  They did a great job, and I think they really could have/can/will have good success on the big screen.  

With this new age they're endeavoring into with Korra, especially in consideration of the Steampunk aspect, I think people will really eat it up.  Just looking back to the the Fire Nation airships - man, they were amazing in both their design and execution (in Sozin's Comet).  If they continue down that path (with design in mind), I'm certain it will be awesome.  Which is not to say that the entire series wasn't rich in design.  Graphically, I cannot think of it's equal in backgrounds and settings.  

(Needless to say, the art was only one part of the whole which made it great).


----------



## Shade (Aug 2, 2010)

Oh man, I would kill to see an Avatar movie in movie-quality animation, if it was even half of Ghibli's. I'm not so sure a brand new story in the Avatarverse would work so well in a two-hour frame, nor would adapting the existing content (as we now know), but a new story with the characters we know really could be something special.

However, the chances of that are pretty slim thanks to M. Night; I doubt people will trust the TLA or related brand enough to spend their money on it again.


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## delirium (Aug 2, 2010)

> ...Mike and Brian really owe the fans a feature length animated movie...



Now that would be amazing.

The adventures of Toph


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 2, 2010)

Well, I wouldn't say they _owe_ it to us, but it certainly would be nice to see.


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## troublesum-chan (Aug 2, 2010)

> "It's almost as if this movie wasn't made for any ACTUAL moviegoer that currently exists, but rather some hypothetical future moviegoer that will just swallow whatever M. Night ejaculates all over their faces and in which he's apparently still relevant."



 nice links stabby


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## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

That review was awesome.

I read the entire thing.


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## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

> The whole Sozen's comet thing was introduced pretty late- which was kind of lame in a duex ex machina kind of way, but there was really no need to address it early. In fact, considering how long it took the show to FINALLY get to that point, I'd actually take away points from the show with it.



So what, you're talking about the whole _seven_ episodes before they introduce Sozin's Comet?


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## Noah (Aug 2, 2010)

So I guess the question now is....

Is MH a critic pretending to be a troll? Or a troll pretending to be a critic?

He's like some sort of Bizarro Adonis.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 2, 2010)

So wait. In your opinion, not only is lightning bending a Dues Ex Michanica... but so is Sozin's Comet...?

I would really like you to explain to me what you think a Deus Ex Mechanica is. Cause, well:

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 2, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Just came across this review/analysis/critique from someone named bebopsamurai. It's very similar in tone to those infamous reviews of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones by
> 
> This basically breaks down everything wrong with The Last Airbender. Both on it's own merits as a stand alone movie and as an adaptation.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link sir. Agreed on all accounts.



> I said 80-90% of the show is filler. I then go into asking the necessity of Sozen's comet in the first season.




What episodes were filler? I'd love a list sense you seem so sure of it.


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## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

Avatar _does_ a Deus ex Machina, but you have to watch the whole thing to find out what it is.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 2, 2010)

Just wait a second. Before we get into any of that, I really want to hear what MartialHorror thinks a Deus ex Mechanica actually is.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

He's probably asleep.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 2, 2010)

Then we have to talk about other things until he wakes up.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 2, 2010)

What part of "I'll respond when I get back from work" do you guys not understand?



Superrazien said:


> I'm sorry if you think following the shows story line is nitpicking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> *sigh* did you even rea- never mind. If you were refering to my "introducing it near the end" comment, I was refering to the movie, not the show. If you were refering to my "it takes forever to get to the point", I was refering to when Sozen's comet finally arrives



Don't act indignant with me, when you're the one who did not clearly make that distinction. And if you really were referring to when the comet arrives, then that has to be one of the more baffling arguments you've attempted.  By it's own internal logic, it took as long to tell as it should have. You're basically asking for the show to use movie logic... an inversion of what you're criticizing us for doing.

And of course there was suspense with Sozin's Comet. It was the crucial, overriding concern of the entire series. It provided the urgency to Aang's quest, something that was missing from TLA (not that Sozin's Comet could have or should have provided that urgency in the movie). What you wanted them to do with Sozin's Comet, they did with Ozai. Of course, you wouldn't even know that.

As for lightning-bending... if you have a problem with how it was introduced, I disagree but that's not important. It didn't occur in the narrative in any DEM manner, is my point. Actually, I don't believe it was ever even in the position to _be_ a deus ex machina. 

As for filler, since the show is an original story, it technically contains none, just episodes of varying consequentiality. Calling it 85-90% inconsequential is false, anyway, since nearly every episode served the overall narrative, which is probably what confounded M. Night the most.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 2, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> That is why it is there. But the problem is, Avatar is filled with 80-90% filler. Hell, I can think of at least one episode where they take the day off in Season 2. The show was obviously not in any hurry to get to Sozen's comet arriving. Hence, the intended suspense is lost amongst all that filler.



Again, out of the 61 episodes of Avatar, which ones were filler? According to you, 49 to 55 episodes weren't important to the story. Since that's a lot to go through, why not tell us which ones weren't filler?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

He may mean that when you're paring it down for making a film, you can eliminate 85-90% of the action. At least, I _hope_ that's his ultimate point.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 2, 2010)

> As for filler, since the show is an original story, it technically contains none, just episodes of varying consequentiality. Calling it 85-90% inconsequential is false, anyway, since nearly every episode served the overall narrative, which is probably what confounded M. Night the most.



...And if were using that definition of "filler", as in episodes that aren't directly necessary to the main story. Than it's still not even close to 85-90%.

More like 10%.

Almost every episode in the second season flows within the narrative. The only one's I can think off the top of my head that could be cut without effecting the story are "Avatar Day" and "Tales of Ba Sing Se". Even then, you'd probably still want the bit about Iroh Mourning Lu Ten.


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## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> ...And if were using that definition of "filler", as in episodes that aren't directly necessary to the main story. Than it's still not even close to 85-90%.
> 
> More like 10%.
> 
> Almost every episode in the second season flows within the narrative. The only one's I can think off the top of my head that could be cut without effecting the story are "Avatar Day" and "Tales of Ba Sing Se". Even then, you'd probably still want the bit about Iroh Mourning Lu Ten.



I simply refuse to recognize that definition of filler. 

But a movie person would counter that given only 2 hours, you'd have to tell a very abridged version, so, for instance, Iroh's failure at BSS might have to stand on its own, without the added effect of Lu Ten's death. 

M. Night's problem, to me, was that he just faltered at every step, whether it be choosing the source material to adapt, the act adapting the material itself, or changing aspects of the source material to fit his vision.


But on a better subject (the show), Book 2 is weird in the fandom. I saw this on the Ember Island Players page on Avatar Wiki:



> Likewise, the audience yawning and falling asleep during the section of the play dealing with "The Drill" is a reference to a vocal portion of the fanbase considering that episode to be "boring".



Who the fuck thinks The Drill is boring? I haven't seen anyone say that.


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## Noah (Aug 2, 2010)

As far as filler, there's only three episodes that really don't provide much to the story. The Great Divide, Avatar Day and The Beach; with The Beach being the one that actually, despite Jove's unbridled hated towards it, drives the story forward the most.

The problem is that what MH is calling filler, everyone else recognizes as forward moving dialog, action and character development. If you can honestly say that character development is filler, then you have no reason to be speaking on the subject. I don't know where you've studied or worked or what experiences you have that would rank your opinion higher than anyone else's here, but you're coming across as someone who took two or three courses at his community college and now thinks he's enlightened.

Call me a troll all you want for throwing out a few sarcastic lines instead of repeatedly responding to your WALLS OF TEXT OF DOOM, but it doesn't make what I said any less true. It seems like you're defending TLA simply for the sake of defending it against the crowd.


Now, with that said, I'm going back to my original statement. This shit is obnoxious and both sides are ignoring valid points and sticking to ones they don't like or can argue best. Since I've joined in and become a hypocrite, I might as well quote myself:



> Jesus Christ.
> 
> I could've sworn there was a thread dedicated to bitching about the movie awhile ago. Take this tl:dr back and forth bullshit there, or the MH's movie thread, or to PM. Just get that shit out of here. It's a circular argument with neither side making a decent point.
> 
> Take it somewhere else and let us go back to our fanwanking.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm beginning to suspect MH "watched" the show only by having mental patients describe episodes to him.

@Noah: Isn't bitching and arguing about things related to the show pretty much the purest form of fanwank. Especially when that shit is petty and insignificant. That's like mainlining fanwank!


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## Noah (Aug 2, 2010)

^ True. It is fanwank crack.

But it's bad crack when I keep seeing WALL OF TEXT OF DOOM. And even Jove's fighting back. That's gotta mean something.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

It's a character driven show.

Almost all of the episodes feature varying degrees of characterization and development, making them more or less the stronger points of the series.  The story is a backdrop for the characters and how they grow within it, despite how beautiful and well realized the backdrop actually is.

And I liked the Great Divide.


----------



## delirium (Aug 2, 2010)

How can you not like The Great Divide? Especially that ridiculous resolution


----------



## Mider T (Aug 2, 2010)

As Sokka said "Eh, let's just skip over it"

And The Drill, I've heard that the speaking parts were boring, but I didn't think so myself.


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## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

I like it a lot more after I read bebobsamurai's review and he called it a "gigantic steampunk dildo"


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## Omolara (Aug 2, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> It's a character driven show.
> 
> Almost all of the episodes feature varying degrees of characterization and development, making them more or less the stronger points of the series.  The story is a backdrop for the characters and how they grow within it, despite how beautiful and well realized the backdrop actually is.
> 
> And I liked the Great Divide.



I had a response typed up that said essentially that... then I lost it. 
The story wasn't just about the comet, or the war (intense!!!), it was about the people. Without that steady development as Aang as a person and the Avatar, and the development of his companions and even side characters in their own rights, we really wouldn't give damn about the Big Bad and his impending power boost. It was about the war in a sense that it drove many of the characters in different ways, but the focus was on how it affected those characters.

*Spoiler*: __ 



Moreover, the Avatar isn't just there to beat bad guys and be powerful, he or she must also be a part of the world in order to fully understand it and its people so that he or she may maintain balance. So, all of those episodes where we learned more about the Avatar as a human being, and the people of each nation were all a part of increasing the Avatar's knowledge of the world he lives in. Those episodes showed the very human side of any conflict. There are people fighting that war, and there are people being hurt by it and not just in a need to be rescued sort of way. 

Just defeating the Fire Lord wouldn't have been enough to restore balance to the world. Only by becoming a fully realized Avatar - mastering the elements, being the spiritual bridge, resolving conflicts, and truly becoming of the world - would Aang have been able to do that. Each book showed us a different part of the world and how it was affected by the war, even the Fire Nation itself. Heck, even Azula got development as a person as well as a villain. In Book Three, we got to see that even the villains of the world were harmed by the war, rather than just being villains for the sake of being villains. It too was a part of Aang's development as a being of the world. He needed to understand them as well. 

All of those episodes, even "The Great Divide" worked toward the goal of developing the characters and their world. 



tl;dr: This isn't Mario. Aang wasn't just supposed to stomp on bad guys and save the Princess.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

There's a reason they spent a whole season in the fire nation--you know, the unstoppable, imperialistic war machine that was hell bent on leveling and subjecting the world to their ideology.   

Without the development of the actual characters--not necessarily just Aang--the show just another vehicle for cool fight scenes.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 2, 2010)

Jove said:


> Don't act indignant with me, when you're the one who did not clearly make that distinction. And if you really were referring to when the comet arrives, then that has to be one of the more baffling arguments you've attempted.  By it's own internal logic, it took as long to tell as it should have. You're basically asking for the show to use movie logic... an inversion of what you're criticizing us for doing.



No, I was criticizing the show for its lack of suspense involving Sozin's comet. 



> And of course there was suspense with Sozin's Comet. It was the crucial, overriding concern of the entire series. It provided the urgency to Aang's quest, something that was missing from TLA (not that Sozin's Comet could have or should have provided that urgency in the movie). What you wanted them to do with Sozin's Comet, they did with Ozai. Of course, you wouldn't even know that.



Please, like 1 in every 5 episodes would mention it. TLA was comprised of, as I said, self contained stories that had little relevance to Sozin's comet.

Regardless of whether they were dealing with Zhao, Jet, or- that guy who killed Jet(don't remember his name), or even that drill- Sozin's comet was always so far away until season 3 that any suspense was nill.

Why would we worry about it if the current episode is focusing on the gang fighting Jet? If we're thinking about the comet while that is going on, then that episode must suck because we're not thinking of the current episode.

As for Ozai, not really, as I never felt any suspense from that either. Granted, I liked the fact that he was shrowded in mystery. But they didn't do with him what I wanted to do with Sozin's comet.  



> As for lightning-bending... if you have a problem with how it was introduced, I disagree but that's not important. It didn't occur in the narrative in any DEM manner, is my point. Actually, I don't believe it was ever even in the position to _be_ a deus ex machina.



Oh no! A lightning storm is threatening to destroy the boat. What's that? Iroh can redirect lightning? Oh thank heavens!

That is pure duex ex machina. 



> As for filler, since the show is an original story, it technically contains none, just episodes of varying consequentiality. Calling it 85-90% inconsequential is false, anyway, since nearly every episode served the overall narrative, which is probably what confounded M. Night the most.



You could have a point here, but I'd need to hear you describe what you consider to be the narrative. 

As I said, filler isn't always a bad thing. In fact, it can be argued that all episodes contained relevance to the characters, but not relevance to the story. 



> Again, out of the 61 episodes of Avatar, which ones were filler? According to you, 49 to 55 episodes weren't important to the story. Since that's a lot to go through, why not tell us which ones weren't filler?



lol, why don't you tell us which aren't filler and explain why? Your request is unreasonable because that would take me hours. Could I just list the episodes? Yeah, but then you might try to refute it in which the final result would be me defending any episode regardless. 


> He may mean that when you're paring it down for making a film, you can eliminate 85-90% of the action. At least, I hope that's his ultimate point.



No, smartass, when you're paring it down for making a film, you must strip the show to its basic story. Otherwise it gets convoluted. 



> I simply refuse to recognize that definition of filler.
> 
> But a movie person would counter that given only 2 hours, you'd have to tell a very abridged version, so, for instance, Iroh's failure at BSS might have to stand on its own, without the added effect of Lu Ten's death.
> 
> ...



Filler is when you pretty much when you don't have enough of a direct story to fill certain episodes, so you make it up. Most comedies are comprised of mainly filler(because that's where the jokes are).

That's why I stress that filler isn't bad. It's only bad when it's blatantly used to kill time and little effort goes into it, like in Naruto. Or it's bad in shows like "Lost", where it disrupts the flow of the episodes(like that infamous episode that killed off two characters no one liked). 




> The problem is that what MH is calling filler, everyone else recognizes as forward moving dialog, action and character development. If you can honestly say that character development is filler, then you have no reason to be speaking on the subject. I don't know where you've studied or worked or what experiences you have that would rank your opinion higher than anyone else's here, but you're coming across as someone who took two or three courses at his community college and now thinks he's enlightened.



My opinion doesn't rank any higher than anyone elses here. A pointless claim, as I think the same way about you guys. When you start claiming my opinions are invalid because I havent seen most of season 3, even though we're talking about a movie based on Season 1, then you've suddenly started to think yourself superior(not directing this at you, just the people who've made such claims).

As for character development, that would be fine if a lot of it wasn't redundant. This is why I was never a Zuko fan. How many times must we endure him feeling sorry for himself. In fact, I hated him in Season 2(where like all villains-turned-heroes, he seemed to lose 80% of his personality and just brood). Remember that I am focusing though on its affect on the story. 




> Call me a troll all you want for throwing out a few sarcastic lines instead of repeatedly responding to your WALLS OF TEXT OF DOOM, but it doesn't make what I said any less true. It seems like you're defending TLA simply for the sake of defending it against the crowd.



Doesn't stop you from being a troll. If you dont think so, learn the definition. My texts are this long(believe me, I dont like it either) because I'm arguing against multiple people at once.

I'm defending it because I take movies seriously. Just like how you all are getting pissy at anything I say that is not 110% praising the show. You take the show seriously.



> I'm beginning to suspect MH "watched" the show only by having mental patients describe episodes to him.



Mental patients....obnoxious, obsessive fans, same thing. 

(seriously though, are you even trying anymore? You're becoming quite a troll yourself). 



> it was about the people. Without that steady development as Aang as a person and the Avatar, and the development of his companions and even side characters in their own rights, we really wouldn't give damn about the Big Bad and his impending power boost.



Fair enough. Nice post.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 2, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, why don't you tell us which aren't filler and explain why? Your request is unreasonable because that would take me hours. Could I just list the episodes? Yeah, but then you might try to refute it in which the final result would be me defending any episode regardless.



Because the burden of proof is on you. You made a general statement and I'm calling you on it. If you can't even give a general idea of what episodes are filler, or even support your opinion on the subject, than you shouldn't have made the statement in the first place.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 2, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Oh no! A lightning storm is threatening to destroy the boat. What's that? Iroh can redirect lightning? Oh thank heavens!
> 
> That is pure duex ex machina.



So, in you're opinion, in a show wherien characters use magical Kung-fu to manipulate the elements. Having a Character use Magical kung-fu to manipulate an element is a duex ex machina...?

Yeah, so, "Pure" as in "Not even remotely". 

This term is similar to "Mary Sue" in that way too many people use it without actually knowing what it really means or how to apply it.



> *Noun*
> 
> deus ex machina _(plural dei ex machina)_
> 
> ...


Emphasis mine.

Explain to me how Iroh's lightning bending fits into that? Just because it's something you haven't seen before does not automatically make it a DEM.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey Stab, checked out the first chap of your fic. I liked it. Kinda reminds me of Heart of Fire, but in a good way. I'll check out more later.


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## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> As for Ozai, not really, as I never felt any suspense from that either. Granted, I liked the fact that he was shrowded in mystery. But they didn't do with him what I wanted to do with Sozin's comet.



Yes, they did. You haven't seen the entire show, so you very literally have no idea. This is why I'm having serious credibility issues with you.

And Sozin's Comet wasn't the story, it was the plot point hanging over the story. The story was Aang mastering the elements and defeating the Fire Lord. So no, they didn't have to mention it relentlessly. It merely had to exist.

Now, until you've actually seen the entirety of the show, I'm retiring from debating anything related specifically to the show with you. I'll gladly debate the movie and the relation between the two.

And for God's sake, spell deus ex machina correctly.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 2, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Because the burden of proof is on you. You made a general statement and I'm calling you on it. If you can't even give a general idea of what episodes are filler, or even support your opinion on the subject, than you shouldn't have made the statement in the first place.



Then I'll just bow out, because there is no way I'm going through every episode. 



> So, in you're opinion, in a show wherien characters use magical Kung-fu to manipulate the elements. Having a Character use Magical kung-fu to manipulate an element is a duex ex machina...?
> 
> Yeah, so, "Pure" as in "Not even remotely".
> 
> This term is similar to "Mary Sue" in that way too many people use it without actually knowing what it really means or how to apply it.



When said element has nothing to do with the element that the character is supposed to be using, it is.

Lightning and Fire are two completely different elements. If you can't figure that out then it just goes to show how much of a fanboy you are.

Bloodbending and Metal bending are stretches, but I can see the comparison. So if anyone used that to suddenly stop something, then fine. 

But when you go from fire to lightning....thats a stretch. 



> Emphasis mine.
> 
> Explain to me how Iroh's lightning bending fits into that? Just because it's something you haven't seen before does not automatically make it a DEM.



Both def's fit it. There was no any indicator that a firebender could use lightning, as they are TWO DIFFERENT ELEMENTS. 


> Yes, they did. You haven't seen the entire show, so you very literally have no idea. This is why I'm having serious credibility issues with you.
> 
> And Sozin's Comet wasn't the story, it was the plot point hanging over the story. The story was Aang mastering the elements and defeating the Fire Lord. So no, they didn't have to mention it relentlessly. It merely had to exist.
> 
> Now, until you've actually seen the entirety of the show, I'm retiring from debating anything related specifically to the show with you.



No, they didn't. Ozai was never really shown simply to make him more of a background influence. People represented him(Zhao, Azula). 

Let me guess, they show him fairly early in Season 3? Was there any notable surprise? was he a character we've seen before? 

Where did the suspense lead too? We already knew he'd be the strongest fire bender in the nation. What surprise was there?

Your "you havent seen season 3" argument is just an excuse.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Lightning and Fire are two completely different elements. If you can't figure that out then it just goes to show how much of a fanboy you are.



Well, the show also has Magma-bending somehow fall under Firebending, and not Earthbending, so this is one of those "accept the show's logic" thing. You obviously accepted the scientific inaccuracies of Inception, correct?

Though Lavabending was only seen performed by Avatars, so we're not sure regular benders can do it, but it's associated with firebending and I still say that makes no sense. _Much_less sense than Fire ---> lightning.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 2, 2010)

Jove said:


> Well, the show also has Magma-bending somehow fall under Firebending, and not Earthbending, so this is one of those "accept the show's logic" thing. You obviously accepted the scientific inaccuracies of Inception, correct?
> 
> Though Lavabending was only seen performed by Avatars, so we're not sure regular benders can do it, but it's associated with firebending and I still say that makes no sense. _Much_less sense than Fire ---> lightning.



Magma still makes more sense than lightning bending. 

It's one thing to accept the shows logic, it's another to feel cheated by it. 

But I dont really have that much of an issue with the lightning bending. I just dont like how it was introduced(as I said, they do a good job explaining it in the long run. It was just introduced so cheaply and randomly).


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Your "you havent seen season 3" argument is just an excuse.



It's not an excuse when you're trying to sound impressively detached with talk of plot structures and tropes, yet the content itself escapes you. And it's not an argument; I want you to see Book 3 so we can debate this fully.

The show effectively used Sozin's Comet. It was the one pressing issue that impressed itself upon Aang's actions. SC was very adroitly handled in a fully-planned 61 episode series, considering that it was mainly a device until it's manifestation. And actually, your desire for foreshadowing and explanation of both SC and Ozai converge near the end in a major emphatic twist.

And of course Magma-bending falling under Firebending is the most ridiculous bending aspect in the show. With Lightning, there's no direct answer to what element it should fall under; with magma, that clearly falls under.

Side note: Boskov's totally spot on about the Gaang in the Fire Nation. Those first 9 episodes of Book 3 are derided, but it's within those episodes that we learn about the people of the FN and it's culture outside the Royal Palace.


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## Omolara (Aug 2, 2010)

Lightning bending during a storm isn't a DEM, it's pure badassery. 

We'd already been introduced to the notion of firebending being bending of energy rather than manipulation of the environment. It also served as an early hint at there being more to all bending than just the basic four elements themselves. With mastery over them, one could take bending further than just freezing/ moving water, manipulating the earth, controlling the winds, and producing fire. To that end, we get bloodbending and metalbending. We may even be able to include Aang's air scooter since manipulating air in that way was apparently so unheard of that he was considered a master among other Air Nomad masters. Even so, it's not even necessary to consider a greater mastery over air since it seems the only way to separate an airbender from his or her element is to suffocate them. 

Introducing it early on placed it firmly within the logic of the Avatar universe. It also didn't do much toward resolving the issue. IIRC, it was played as a bit of a humor moment mixed in with showing us that there's more to Iroh than meets the eye. Actually, quite a few of his shining moments are played like that. It keeps him benign until he no longer has a reason to be. Perhaps if it had never been explained ("Bitter Work"), then maybe we could call it an ass-pull, but it fits within the mythology that Bryke set up. We already know that they sort of condensed the elements and made the missing" ones extensions of the established four. 

In other news, Zuko is awesome. He was supremely conflicted (my faves always are) and had a lot of baggage, and his story was one of my favorites. Season 2 was both a high and low point for him. High in terms of how complex he was shown to be, but he was also shown at his lowest. 
The way he and Aang served as each other's foil was absolutely brilliant.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 2, 2010)

My question is MH, if you've heard the stellar reviews for Season 3 and horrendous ones for the movie, why would you watch the latter and not the former?


----------



## delirium (Aug 2, 2010)

> It's not an excuse when you're trying to sound impressively detached with talk of plot structures and tropes, yet the content itself escapes you.



That's kind of a big deal here and makes this back and forth of what... 50 pages now... completely pointless. If M Night was a member of NF defending his film his name would be MartialHorror. You can't say that 80%-90% of the show is filler yet debate this as if you know what you're talking about when you're disconnected to that level. It's worse than reading a synopsis and trying to write a 10 page paper on a 500 page novel.

On the flipside, how are you even going to converse with someone about the finer points of the story with someone who both hasn't bothered to finish whole third (a very important third I might add) and who believes that all but 10% of that story doesn't progress the story? You're talking to a wall and it's just irritating yourself and everyone else who has to sit through this tail chase.

Please. This thread is now ass. Can we move on?

But who am I kidding. That's what the internet is for, right? Proving someone else wrong. And porn. Both practices of masturbation. You're just fucking yourselves.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

delirium said:


> On the flipside, how are you even going to converse with someone about the finer points of the story with someone who both hasn't bothered to finish whole third (a very important third I might add) and who believes that all but 10% of that story doesn't progress the story? You're talking to a wall and it's just irritating yourself and everyone else who has to sit through this tail chase.



I guess a certain s-mod forgets how boring it is to be MD mod. 

I like the debate, and I think MH brings a fresh voice as a movie guy. And fuck, Rekky keeps getting within 80 posts of my Avatar thread postcount lead.


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## delirium (Aug 2, 2010)

Fresh is.... generous lol

Also, I could always just stay the fuck out of the thread. Who am I to tell people what to do?


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## Mider T (Aug 2, 2010)

A former mod thats who


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

And the _MD_ mod at that.


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## Aruarian (Aug 2, 2010)

I just want to jump in and state that the link from fire to lightning isn't that far-fetched. Given that if fire has enough thermal energy to start tossing out electrons out of a gas, creating plasma, it is understandable to link it to lightning, which is also rather related to plasma. Plus the whole firebending being energy and all that, as stated before.


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## Darth (Aug 2, 2010)

I'll also jump in and defend the firebending aspect of magma bending. 

Granted, you're technically bending molten _earth_, but firebenders bend heat, not pure flame. Heat becomes flame. Who's to say you can't bend and move magma using the heat inside?

Of course, that would be quite a feat. Probably as difficult as lightning bending, if not harder. 

However, magma bending has only been shown by Avatar Rokku. Sozin himself used a different approach with the volcano. So magma-bending is likely a combination of earth-bending and fire-bending.


----------



## Quaero (Aug 2, 2010)

Link removed



> TZN: Will you be working on the new Avatar the Last Airbender series?
> 
> ANDREA ROMANO: I already am. I?ve recorded three episodes. It's seventy five years in the future.
> 
> ...



Sad news if this is legit.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 2, 2010)

7*5* years now?  And the whole old generation?  I guess it's for the best to show it's a new world but still 

And Darth, something tells me you're just itching to make a thread about this debate in the OBD


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## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

Mider T said:


> 7*5* years now?  And the whole old generation?  I guess it's for the best to show it's a new world but still
> 
> And Darth, something tells me you're just itching to *make a thread about this debate in the OBD*



This is a terrible idea and you should feel bad for even thinking about posting it.


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## delirium (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't remember tardism being in the job description of modable things. If I'd missed it though I wish I knew back then. It's NF's version of AIDS and everyone is having rampant unprotected sex. Without the pleasure of unprotected sex, of course. Because we know no one is getting any sex around here or all that pent up sexual frustration wouldn't manifest itself in walls of text. Sans Jove. He's getting too much booty that bastard!

--

Even if they're all dead I thought the show was going to have lots of flashbacks? I am kind sad at the Toph dying, though. I was hoping she'd still be alive kicking ass like Bumi. xD


----------



## Koi (Aug 2, 2010)

SHIT.  NO.  EVERYONE IS DEAD?!  God that's weak. D8


----------



## Nimander (Aug 2, 2010)

Eh.  I'll still stand by the stance that TLA, while not being wonderful, wasn't as horribly bad as so many people make it out to be.  And that is all I'll say on that.

At the very least M. Night did a few (not very many, but a few) things right.  He established Aang's connection to the Spirit Realm very early on, so that at the end when he does learn to spiritbend (if M. Night even decides to go that route) it won't seem like to be as much of an asspull as it was in the series.


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## Darth (Aug 2, 2010)

Mider T said:


> 7*5* years now?  And the whole old generation?  I guess it's for the best to show it's a new world but still
> 
> And Darth, something tells me you're just itching to make a thread about this debate in the OBD



errrr.. mebe. 

no.

kinda..

It's an interesting thought. IMO, earthbenders should be able to magmabend, but not firebenders..


----------



## delirium (Aug 2, 2010)

Because it's ambiguous only transgendered benders (lol) get to bend magma. Btw, have you heard about Roku...?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2010)

delirium said:


> Because we know no one is getting any sex around here or all that pent up sexual frustration wouldn't manifest itself in walls of text. Sans Jove. He's getting too much booty that bastard!



*adjusts tie*



Darth said:


> I'll also jump in and defend the firebending aspect of magma bending.
> 
> Granted, you're technically bending molten _earth_, but firebenders bend heat, not pure flame. Heat becomes flame. Who's to say you can't bend and move magma using the heat inside?
> 
> ...



It was never shown that firebenders could bend _heat_; I'd disagree with that interpretation. If that's the case, they could bend hot water, hot air, etc. I do agree that magmabending could likely a combo bend, at least logically.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 2, 2010)

So, have you've guys been discussing the casting roles yet? A few sites say they are beginning to look for cast...


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 2, 2010)

My uncle says airbenders should've been able to bend lightning too.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 2, 2010)

Jove said:


> It's not an excuse when you're trying to sound impressively detached with talk of plot structures and tropes, yet the content itself escapes you. And it's not an argument; I want you to see Book 3 so we can debate this fully.
> 
> The show effectively used Sozin's Comet. It was the one pressing issue that impressed itself upon Aang's actions. SC was very adroitly handled in a fully-planned 61 episode series, considering that it was mainly a device until it's manifestation. And actually, your desire for foreshadowing and explanation of both SC and Ozai converge near the end in a major emphatic twist.
> 
> ...



Well, if you feel that way, no point in arguing against it because we'll just repeat ourselves.

I also won't deny the possibility that while I am big on the movie structure, I might be a little faulty when it comes to a TV shows structure(as I dont watch many of them). My attacks on the show mainly stemmed from the differences. What works in a show won't work in a movie. I think Sozen's comet being introduced early in the movie would be a mistake. If Im criticizing it in the show, it's probably because Im taking it as the same function as it would be in a movie. 

So if you think Sozin's comet was used perfectly in the show. Fine, you have a sufficient argument there. It would just lack that effect if used in the same way in a movie. 

Imo, magma bending would make the most sense if only the Avatar could do it. While this might break Stab's(I think it was him) statement about bending just being an extension of martial arts, I think it would be interesting if certain elements could be combined. Magma would probably be a mix of fire bending and earth bending. 

But as I said, lightning is a stretch. If anything, water might make more sense in using that. Or even Metal bending. I do like how its ultimately used(it makes Azula more fearsome, although it also makes fire bending a little outdated). I just didnt like how it was introduced. 

In fact, It can be argued that its use in the storm was meant to forshadow, but it just felt weak to me.

For the record, Jove, I think you're beginning to suspect I'm right there. You fell on the "just follow the shows logic" argument. I do, I buy Earth, fire, Wind and Water bending. But the Lightning bending almost breaks that logic.

Plus, that sounds a bit much like a defense of any bad movie ever made. Watch "Superman 4". If you just followed that movies logic, then there would be nothing bad to say about it....and that movie is far inferior to TLA.



> Lightning bending during a storm isn't a DEM, it's pure badassery.



Er, it can be both. I'm reminded of how in the 70's, Godzilla often gotten attacks that seemed quite random(being able to fly using his breath, or worse, becoming a magnet that just happens to work against Mechagodzilla). It was badass stuff, and is quite fun, but that doesn't change the fact it's a DEM. 



> My question is MH, if you've heard the stellar reviews for Season 3 and horrendous ones for the movie, why would you watch the latter and not the former?



I am a huge movie buff. But not a big TV show buff. Lost is one of the few shows I stayed with till the end.

I first saw Avatar due to my sister, who is huge into cartoons and anime. I'd happen to catch a minute or so of it and thought it was surprisingly funny. Eventually I watched an episode of Season 2 and got hook and watched the whole thing. I then watched most of Season 1(not in order though, just what was on at the time), but wasnt as huge on it since I thought Toph was the best character(but it was still good).

I waited for Season 3, heard rumors that it was coming, continued waiting....and then got bored and lost interest. When it came around, I simply didnt care. Plus, I dont think it was on when I would've watched it anyway.

I saw TLA because, well, Im a movie buff, and I dont mind watching bad movies, especially if its part of the genre I'd review(martial arts). 

I will watch Season 3 one day. I just lack the time that I used to have and would rather watch it in order.

It's nothing against the show or anything. 



> That's kind of a big deal here and makes this back and forth of what... 50 pages now... completely pointless. If M Night was a member of NF defending his film his name would be MartialHorror. You can't say that 80%-90% of the show is filler yet debate this as if you know what you're talking about when you're disconnected to that level. It's worse than reading a synopsis and trying to write a 10 page paper on a 500 page novel.



Im also not a fanboy for it. I can like something but acknowledge faults. I just dont think you guys can. You're too much fanboys. 

I argue something is a DEM, one late response is "just go with the shows logic". By that logic, I am not allowed to complain about any plot hole, contrivance, DEM or anything bad about....anything. In fact, I can throw it right back at you.

Example, if I said that the show was pretty weak with its subvillains, would you freak out? Zhao, for example, lost a lot of credibility for me when he was defeated by Zuko, who was much weaker than he would eventually become. Or what about the guy who killed Jet? He gets hyped up and then gets owned EASILY. The show introduces plenty of ideas and concepts and never goes anywhere with them, although executive meddling has a lot to do with what(like they dont resolve the Zuko's Mother subplot because they had no time).

The fact is, you guys cannot take any kind of criticism against the show. It's even worse when you guys start twisting my words to make it appear as if Im criticizing the show.

Plus, if I was M. Night, I wouldn't be making this movie to begin with. If you're going to play hard in these debates, you might want to focus on what's being said. My whole argument is that THIS IS A STUPID SHOW TO ADAPT INTO A MOVIE.



> On the flipside, how are you even going to converse with someone about the finer points of the story with someone who both hasn't bothered to finish whole third (a very important third I might add) and who believes that all but 10% of that story doesn't progress the story? You're talking to a wall and it's just irritating yourself and everyone else who has to sit through this tail chase.



I've explained this so many times that if you aren't going to bother reading my posts, stop trying to argue. All you're going to do is piss me off, which in turn will make me want to piss you off. In which I won't stop this debate.

I will say this though, there is no denying that M. Night wanted to make his stamp on the show(hence, the changes). Directors can be a stiffling bunch.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 2, 2010)

Darth said:


> errrr.. mebe.
> 
> no.
> 
> ...



The only firebenders we saw magmabend were Avatars, Roku and that other unnamed fire one.

Or it could work like that sludge and mud.  Both Toph and Katara were able to bend those.


----------



## Omolara (Aug 2, 2010)

Jove said:


> *adjusts tie*
> 
> 
> 
> It was never shown that firebenders could bend _heat_; I'd disagree with that interpretation. If that's the case, they could bend hot water, hot air, etc. I do agree that magmabending could likely a combo bend, at least logically.



Didn't Sozin draw the heat out of the lava during "The Avatar and the Fire Lord"?
Maybe it just has to be _dry_ heat.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 2, 2010)

I do wish lightning had been the advanced form of airbending.  Honestly, the way the firebenders even summoned the lightning, the forms and the movement were more consistent with Tai Chi than anything else.

And Sozin "heatbending" the lava is one of those pleasant semi-plotholes I choose to ignore, especially since no other firebenders have been shown to be able to use those abilities since.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 2, 2010)

^I see it as Sozin using his unique mind.  He was said to be calculating so he probably though of ingenious ways to manipulate his bending.  Like Iroh learning to redirect lightning.

I remember the speculation that "weatherbending" was what Aang was going to use to defeat Ozai.


----------



## delirium (Aug 2, 2010)

Every element had their own broken level. Waterbenders had Bloodbending. Firebenders had Magma/Lightning. Earthbending has Toph bending metal. I was waiting for Aang's version. Like bending the air out of someone's lungs. lol

That's probably too dark. Perfect for TLA!


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2010)

delirium said:


> Every element had their own broken level. Waterbenders had Bloodbending. Firebenders had Magma/Lightning. Earthbending has Toph bending metal. I was waiting for Aang's version. Like bending the air out of someone's lungs. lol
> 
> That's probably too dark. Perfect for TLA!



They reboot Avatar...

On HBO.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 2, 2010)

Eh.  I enjoyed the series for what it was.  It mixed an imaginative world, humor and action together in a way few other series I've seen have pulled off, and kept it interesting across four years and through a writer's strike that crippled television for months.  

It may not make it on my list of all time faves, but it will be a classic I'll forever have fond memories of.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 2, 2010)

delirium said:


> Every element had their own broken level. Waterbenders had Bloodbending. Firebenders had Magma/Lightning. Earthbending has Toph bending metal. I was waiting for Aang's version. Like bending the air out of someone's lungs. lol
> 
> That's probably too dark. Perfect for TLA!



I was waiting for him to do that too...although it wouldn't have to be another ability add-on like Metal Bending. Aang was too much of a softy to do something like that


----------



## Noah (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm still a firm believer in SOUNDBENDING (kaboom!)


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 3, 2010)

The whole concept of bending has downright terrifying implications if  you were to take out of the context of a children's TV show


----------



## Mider T (Aug 3, 2010)

Or for that matter Ty Lee's chi blocking techniques, easiest way to kill a person with her agility.  Also Mai's daggers, which never actually hit somebody directly in the show.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2010)

> I'm still a firm believer in SOUNDBENDING (kaboom!)


*Nerd alert*

Like the Sound Ninja in Naruto part 1? 



Mider T said:


> Or for that matter Ty Lee's chi blocking techniques, easiest way to kill a person with her agility.  _Also Mai's daggers, which never actually hit somebody directly in the show._



I know, right? How disappointing


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 3, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Hey Stab, checked out the first chap of your fic. I liked it. Kinda reminds me of Heart of Fire, but in a good way. I'll check out more later.



COOL!


*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm actually not terribly happy with the first few chapters. I was kinda of breaking back into writing after not having done it for a while, so they're a little rough. Keep meaning to go back and re-write them, especially chapter 1 (the real "chapter 1" not the prologue) since I think my introduction of the OC comes off a too little Sue-ish (odd powers... amnesia). 

Good or bad, let me know what you think. I figure the only way to improve is with honest criticism.


----------



## Kno7 (Aug 3, 2010)

I was about to jump in the argument but


MartialHorror said:


> In fact, It can be argued that its use in the storm was meant to forshadow, but it just felt weak to me.


That's what I was going for. A weak argument as it may be, I think it's far more likely that the creators originally intended to introduce lightning as an alternate style of firebending, rather than them adding that scene of Iroh redirecting it for the badassery, and _then_ explaining its logistics in the next season. 
So foreshadowing isn't that much of a stretch, whether you approve of how the art was introduced or not.

I never really considered lightningbending a DEM. Now Toph's lie detector ability on the other hand...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I like it a lot more after I read bebobsamurai's review and he called it a "gigantic steampunk dildo"


The firenation always did have a hard on for the earthnation


MartialHorror said:


> Magma still makes more sense than lightning bending.
> 
> It's one thing to accept the shows logic, it's another to feel cheated by it.
> 
> But I dont really have that much of an issue with the lightning bending. I just dont like how it was introduced(as I said, they do a good job explaining it in the long run. It was just introduced so cheaply and randomly).


They don't actually bend lightning itself, but create superheated air lances, creating a high enough charge for visible electricity. They can only aim and fire the lightning, but have no real way to control it. It's logical enough to my opinion, perhaps it is backwards. Perhaps firebending uses an electrical charge to create fire. It is the power of life after all. But I think it has more basis in myth as well, since lightening is seen as dragons descending from heaven in asian culture, and it's obvious enough for firebenders...


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 3, 2010)

Hmmm, I remember reading how the show ends and I have a question.

Didnt to do Lightning attacks, they needed to be empty of all emotion? Isn't Azula supposed to be emotionally unstable by the final battle?

If Im wrong let me know......


----------



## Noah (Aug 3, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> *Nerd alert*
> 
> Like the Sound Ninja in Naruto part 1?



Ugh. No. Just....no.

I really don't like Naruto-Avatar comparisons. If anything, it's more like Zoom's (Flash villain) ability to snap his fingers so fast it creates an explosive shockwave. Some scientific bullshit about air compression and depression that would be far beyond my ability to think.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 3, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Hmmm, I remember reading how the show ends and I have a question.
> 
> Didnt to do Lightning attacks, they needed to be empty of all emotion? Isn't Azula supposed to be emotionally unstable by the final battle?
> 
> If Im wrong let me know......



No, to learn lightning bending they can't have any turmoil in their heart.  Since Azula was still using it while mentally unstable it must be that once you learn it, you've got it.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 3, 2010)

Noah said:


> Ugh. No. Just....no.
> 
> I really don't like Naruto-Avatar comparisons. If anything, it's more like Zoom's (Flash villain) ability to snap his fingers so fast it creates an explosive shockwave. Some scientific bullshit about air compression and depression that would be far beyond my ability to think.



This best not be an implication that Dosu wasn't the awesomest character in anything WHO WAS KILLED OFF IN THE MOST RETARDED DEATH SCENE IN ANYTHING!? ARGGGGHHHHH!


----------



## Quaero (Aug 3, 2010)

Quaero said:


> Link removed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Weird, I had thought you guys would be more upset over this.

Anyway,  carry on.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2010)

Noah said:


> Ugh. No. Just....no.
> 
> I really don't like Naruto-Avatar comparisons. If anything, it's more like Zoom's (Flash villain) ability to snap his fingers so fast it creates an explosive shockwave. Some scientific bullshit about air compression and depression that would be far beyond my ability to think.



I don't even know what that is...

Sound bending reminds _me_ of the Sound Ninja.


----------



## Kno7 (Aug 3, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Hmmm, I remember reading how the show ends and I have a question.
> 
> Didnt to do Lightning attacks, they needed to be empty of all emotion? Isn't Azula supposed to be emotionally unstable by the final battle?
> 
> If Im wrong let me know......



IIRC you needed to have "peace of mind". It's arguable that Azula was at peace in her mind with killing Zuko so she could generate lightning, or she was single-minded about doing it.

That or what Mider T said.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 3, 2010)

I also assumed it had something to do with her being so practiced at it. Kind of like how you have to really concentrate to do something when you're first learning it, but after a while it just becomes second nature and you don't even have to think about it.


----------



## Noah (Aug 3, 2010)

...who the hell is Dosu?

Terra: One of The Flash's villians (DC comics, red suit, runs real fast) is a guy named Zoom (or Reverse Flash). When he first showed up, he literally just ran around the city snapping his fingers and destroying buildings with the pressure wave. That's what I imagine, when I think of sound bending. So yeah....I guess like that one Sound kid that Shino beat.

Quaero: I'm refusing to believe anything but DINOSAURS WITH A BFG takes Toph out. Even old age.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> The whole concept of bending has downright terrifying implications if  you were to take out of the context of a children's TV show



That's exactly why I _hated_ the introduction of bloodbending.



Kno7 said:


> I never really considered lightningbending a DEM. Now Toph's lie detector ability on the other hand...



Amen, brother. It's all about the context. Toph's lie detection ability was simply stated: "I can do that." Whereas metalbending was something she learned, and in the context of Aang's training with Guru Pathik, to boot.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 3, 2010)

Noah said:


> ...who the hell is Dosu?
> 
> .



The sound-nin from Naruto who got killed by Gaara.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 3, 2010)

Bloodbending did seem a bit bizarre, because it was creepy enough to warrant a somewhat awkward episode amidst all the light hearted tones, but not creepy enough to get it cut.  

It also opened up the darker end of connotations concerning bending, when there was no real reason to do so.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2010)

Noah said:


> ...who the hell is Dosu?
> 
> Terra: One of The Flash's villians (DC comics, red suit, runs real fast) is a guy named Zoom (or Reverse Flash). When he first showed up, he literally just ran around the city snapping his fingers and destroying buildings with the pressure wave. That's what I imagine, when I think of sound bending. So yeah....I guess like that one Sound kid that Shino beat.
> 
> Quaero: I'm refusing to believe anything but DINOSAURS WITH A BFG takes Toph out. Even old age.



Oh, Flash 

Sorry about that. >.>

Although, I never knew or probably just don't remember, that Zoom character.

Okay, now that I know, that is a bit better for Soundbending than Sound Ninja :> But didn't Sound Ninjas do something similar?


----------



## Nimander (Aug 3, 2010)

Bloodbending was a dark stain on an otherwise solid season.  

I'd hate for it to make an appearance in the next series unless it's introduction is done WELL.  But I can't imagine Katara allowing that particular piece of knowledge to be passed down to anybody.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 3, 2010)

Bloodbending was meant for a Halloween episode so I thought it was a one time deal, didn't know they were going to bring it back for the Southern Raiders.  I guess it was meant to show how angry Katara felt, to use it without hesitation.


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 3, 2010)

Jove said:


> Well, the show also has Magma-bending somehow fall under Firebending, and not Earthbending, so this is one of those "accept the show's logic" thing. You obviously accepted the scientific inaccuracies of Inception, correct?
> 
> Though Lavabending was only seen performed by Avatars, so we're not sure regular benders can do it, but it's associated with firebending and I still say that makes no sense. _Much_less sense than Fire ---> lightning.



Actually, MartialHorror hit the nail on the head. According to Avatar Extras, magma bending is a combo of earth and fire bending, meaning only an Avatar (or probably a team of the two seperate benders) could do it.

--

I also had no problem when Blood bending was introduced. I enjoyed the show taking a bit of a darker turn.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 3, 2010)

I forgot about the Halloween bit.

It was probably a studio pressure thing more than anything else, and they just kind of went with it.  It would make more sense as to why it's a grinding gear shift in the season out of fucking nowhere.

Edit;

But it didn't take a 'darker turn.' It took a 'darker bathroom break at the I-95 rest stop.'  Even if there was no problem with making a darker tone in the series, the fact that it doesn't recur, is rarely used and those tones are never really brought back doesn't make it very effective.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 3, 2010)

@Narcissus: MH said that?  Pretty sure I did


----------



## Nimander (Aug 3, 2010)

I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't think the show would've better if it had been "darker".  It could be a bit childish for me at times (I'm a 21 year-old still watching cartoons and anime after all) but I felt like the tone was appropriate to the concepts and ideas of the series. 

If anything, I do wish they had expanded more on the world they lived in.  A world with only four nations seems so...small.  It would've been nice to see other nations, maybe entire other continents or things like that.  I don't know.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 3, 2010)

I felt it struck the right balance of being more or less acceptable for younger children to watch, yet still interesting to older viewers (my mom LOVES Avatar).  Unnecessary grimdark doesn't do much beyond narrowing your potential viewers and alienating a lot of them; the world worked within its own tone, and didn't need to be made lavishly violent or whatever to be interesting.

In fact, I'm glad it was done with a children's mindset, because it managed to have characterization that puts many movies to shame and is still a lot more lighthearted.  I don't think making it more 'serious' or 'dark' makes anything inherently better.


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> But it didn't take a 'darker turn.' It took a 'darker bathroom break at the I-95 rest stop.'  Even if there was no problem with making a darker tone in the series, the fact that it doesn't recur, is rarely used and those tones are never really brought back doesn't make it very effective.



That was more of what I meant. TBH, I didn't even expect to see it used again after that episode at all, seeing as it's a kid's show. I knew they would not keep that tone. I just didn't mind seeing Avatar take the approach, even shortly.



Mider T said:


> @Narcissus: MH said that?  Pretty sure I did



You may have, but I saw MH first.



MartialHorror said:


> Imo, magma bending would make the most sense if only the Avatar could do it. While this might break Stab's(I think it was him) statement about bending just being an extension of martial arts, I think it would be interesting if certain elements could be combined. Magma would probably be a mix of fire bending and earth bending.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 3, 2010)

Well, I suppose with the comet aiding Azula, she didn't need much composure to zappity zap zap


----------



## Mider T (Aug 3, 2010)

Nimander said:


> I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't think the show would've better if it had been "darker".  It could be a bit childish for me at times (I'm a 21 year-old still watching cartoons and anime after all) but I felt like the tone was appropriate to the concepts and ideas of the series.
> 
> If anything, I do wish they had expanded more on the world they lived in.  A world with only four nations seems so...small.  It would've been nice to see other nations, maybe entire other continents or things like that.  I don't know.




*Spoiler*: _Link to the map_ 



http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090728091239/avatar/images/5/5d/Avatar_World_002.jpg






> 1. Northern Water Tribe
> 2. Northern Air Temple
> 3. Western Air Temple
> 4. Ba Sing Se Zoo
> ...



I dunno, seems pretty big to me.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 3, 2010)

Jove said:


> It was never shown that firebenders could bend _heat_; I'd disagree with that interpretation. If that's the case, they could bend hot water, hot air, etc. I do agree that magmabending could likely a combo bend, at least logically.



Zuko blowing warm air into his hands and Iroh heating up tea, IIRC.

And I dissagree with the statement on hot water, as that is very different from agitated molecules in gas.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I forgot about the Halloween bit.
> 
> It was probably a studio pressure thing more than anything else, and they just kind of went with it.  It would make more sense as to why it's a grinding gear shift in the season out of fucking nowhere.



I don't know about that. Bloodbending wasn't an out of the blue thing so it was going to show up sometime in the show.

From the original series Bible:


> Waterbending at its highest skill level contains the most powerful technique among all the Bending Arts. At close ranges, an expert Waterbender uses an opponent's body against them. They harness the ample amount of water within the human body to control an opponent like a puppet master.



So it wasn't going to be blood originally but M&B kept the concept of a Waterbender controlling someone's body. Not only was water changed to blood but also the possibility of a Master waterbender doing it whenever he or she wants to. It's mentioned in the Art book also. It was the other writers who coined the term Bloodbending. No executive meddling there.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 3, 2010)

Plus considering that blood is mostly water, heh.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2010)

Id relate magma bending to cloud bending, unless you are the avatar that knows both bending arts, you will need a water and an airbender to bend clouds (as shown in The Fortuneteller), so for the art of bending magma, you will need an earthbender and a fire bender. 

Might not make much sense to us, but the show has its own logic.



Nimander said:


> I do wish lightning had been the advanced form of airbending.  Honestly, the way the firebenders even summoned the lightning, the forms and the movement were more consistent with Tai Chi than anything else.
> 
> And Sozin "heatbending" the lava is one of those pleasant semi-plotholes I choose to ignore, especially since no other firebenders have been shown to be able to use those abilities since.



The firebending avatar before Roku was shown to bend the lava out of a volcano in that 3 second snapshot he got. I know he can bend earth as well, so there is no definitive way of telling, but since in that montage of avatars, each on super bended their own element, i would say that he did it via fire and not earth.

What was his clever nickname again?


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 3, 2010)

Cloudbending isn't really a combination of water and air. Considering vapors fall under waterbending.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2010)

Hangatýr said:


> Cloudbending isn't really a combination of water and air. Considering vapors fall under waterbending.



Which is why i talked about the "shows logic".

I and any average person would know that you would only need a waterbender to bend vapor, but the way they showed that aang was airbending and katara was waterbending.

Although i could be forgeting something.... imma go check the episiode to see if they werent both waterbending.

EDIT: I was right.
Aang (to Katara): "Clouds are made of water and air, so between the two of us, we otta be able to bend them into any shape we want."

But as far as sozin goes.... i guess it proves that magma is fire bending only, but i wish it would be mre like clouds.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 3, 2010)

But didn't waterbenders bend mist/fog during Book 1?


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2010)

Hangat?r said:


> But didn't waterbenders bend mist/fog during Book 1?



Inorite.
Thats just ... what do they call it... retcon? plothole? one of those things.
Or mabye just aangs lack of knowledge of water.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm pretty sure water benders can bend the water vapor in clouds. The problem is they are too far away from them.


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 3, 2010)

N??ps said:


> The firebending avatar before Roku was shown to bend the lava out of a volcano in that 3 second snapshot he got. I know he can bend earth as well, so there is no definitive way of telling, but since in that montage of avatars, each on super bended their own element, i would say that he did it via fire and not earth.



The writers already told us in the Avatar Extras with that very scene that lava is a combination of earth and fire bending.


----------



## Klue (Aug 3, 2010)

Where can I find the Avatar Extras?


----------



## Platinum (Aug 3, 2010)

On the dvds. Or on nick. They play episodes with avatar extras.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 3, 2010)

Nimander said:


> I guess I'm one of the few that doesn't think the show would've better if it had been "darker".  It could be a bit childish for me at times (I'm a 21 year-old still watching cartoons and anime after all) but I felt like the tone was appropriate to the concepts and ideas of the series.
> 
> If anything, I do wish they had expanded more on the world they lived in.  A world with only four nations seems so...small.  It would've been nice to see other nations, maybe entire other continents or things like that.  I don't know.



Well it does have other continents, you have to remember that the nations are vast. 

I think this is shown with the Earth Kingdom, where different places have their own ruler. 

I mean they obviously travelled the around the world as they went from the South pole to the North pole.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2010)

Hangat?r said:


> Zuko blowing warm air into his hands and Iroh heating up tea, IIRC.
> 
> And I dissagree with the statement on hot water, as that is very different from agitated molecules in gas.



Yeah, Davey, it was them using the _Breath of Fire_. Heat was by proxy.

And looks like you've come to be the hard sci-fi MH?


----------



## Mider T (Aug 3, 2010)

Platinum said:


> On the dvds. Or on nick. They play episodes with avatar extras.



Not on Nick, on Nicktoons.  There is a difference.


----------



## Platinum (Aug 3, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Not on Nick, on Nicktoons.  There is a difference.



I always forget their is a difference.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 3, 2010)

Jove said:


> And looks like you've come to be the hard sci-fi MH?



What? Not sure what you mean.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2010)

I understand, both waterbenders and airbenders are able to bend clouds/fog.
And both earthbenders and firebenders can do magma?


----------



## Mider T (Aug 3, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I understand, both waterbenders and airbenders are able to bend clouds/fog.
> And both earthbenders and firebenders can do magma?



Feasibly, but judging by Roku's difficulty it probably takes the sheer power of an Avatar.


----------



## Burke (Aug 4, 2010)

Just rewatched The Avatar State, and in the montage of past avatars, the fire nation avatar before roku made 4 volcano's erupt at once with a simple motion.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 4, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Just rewatched The Avatar State, and in the montage of past avatars, the fire nation avatar before roku made 4 volcano's erupt at once with a simple motion.



Shhhhhhhhhhhhh...

That was... um, metaphorical.


----------



## Burke (Aug 4, 2010)

Jove said:


> Shhhhhhhhhhhhh...
> 
> That was... um, metaphorical.




**


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I understand, both waterbenders and airbenders are able to bend clouds/fog. And both earthbenders and firebenders can do magma?



I actually thought this too....


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

Really! The fire avatar before Roku could do that? How come I didn't see it? Must have missed it. Anyways, I am new to this part of the forum and I don't know if this question was ever asked. But, do you see any similarities with the Avatars elements and the western zodiac? I'm an Aquarius, meaning I'm an air sign. So I see myself understanding some of Aang's feelings about stuff more than others in the show.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> Really! The fire avatar before Roku could do that? How come I didn't see it? Must have missed it. Anyways, I am new to this part of the forum and I don't know if this question was ever asked. But, do you see any similarities with the Avatars elements and the western zodiac? I'm an Aquarius, meaning I'm an air sign. So I see myself understanding some of Aang's feelings about stuff more than others in the show.



I believe so..... 

I'm Fire Nation.

The movie sight actually has a test you can do.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)




----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I believe so.....
> 
> I'm Fire Nation.
> 
> The movie sight actually has a test you can do.



So you should be either an aries, a leo or a sagittarius. As I can remember, you should be fiery person. Your an ambitious person.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 4, 2010)

Magma/Lava Bending is exclusive to only Avatars. It states it in Avatar extras that it takes Fire bending & Earth bending to do so. It is possible that a fire bender and earth bender could do it though not sure .


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

Ok, nice to know. Anyone else has an idea of their element? Any fiery fire? Any Emotional water? Any practical earth? Any freedom loving air?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> So you should be either an aries, a leo or a sagittarius. As I can remember, you should be fiery person. Your an ambitious person.



Leo 

I wanted to be Earth so bad though


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

You can want to be earth. But fire is more your thing, Terra Branford. Fire is like giving you the freedom to take action and do what you want. Fire bestows upon you the gift of ambition so as not to feel like you don't wanna do anything in life. It gives you a fiery temper like fire(I think) to help you to attain your will or freedom to do. Fire signs should look at Fire Lord Ozai though and should try to remember not to emulate him. As his extreme ambitiousness, his really enraged feelings, and the incorrect use of his fire overall got him to where he is now... I hope this gives you and the other fiery signs(aries and sagittarius) some insight.


----------



## troublesum-chan (Aug 4, 2010)

i want to be an agua bonder


----------



## delirium (Aug 4, 2010)

How do you find out what zodiac sign matches to what element?


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm guessing Summer ones = Fire, Fall = Air, Winter = Water, Spring = Earth


----------



## kyrax12 (Aug 4, 2010)

I was wondering... can earth bender bend sand?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

delirium said:


> How do you find out what zodiac sign matches to what element?



Many places, but the best is at the Avatar homepage.

@tsunadefan:
I like Fire bending/benders....I just loved Earth so much more


----------



## Nodonn (Aug 4, 2010)

kyrax12 said:


> I was wondering... can earth bender bend sand?



Sandbenders?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

kyrax12 said:


> I was wondering... can earth bender bend sand?



Yes, Toph can bend sand.


----------



## troublesum-chan (Aug 4, 2010)

is gemini for agua

plz say si


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I'm guessing Summer ones = Fire, Fall = Air, Winter = Water, Spring = Earth



no, not really. its the zodiacs. fire=sagittarius,aries,leo. water=pisces,scorpio,cancer. earth=capricorn,taurus,virgo. air=aquarius,gemini,libra.


----------



## Burke (Aug 4, 2010)

Stop the non canon talk  lol


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> no, not really. its the zodiacs. fire=sagittarius,aries,leo. water=pisces,scorpio,cancer. earth=capricorn,taurus,virgo. air=aquarius,gemini,libra.



I don't get it.


----------



## Burke (Aug 4, 2010)

Thats oddly true, ive always said id want earthbending powers the most.


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I don't get it.



the horoscopes!? astrology!? the signs are placed under elements to give a general understanding of the personalities of each sign. it doesnt really have so much to do with avatar.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I don't get it.


Its Astrology and Horoscopes.


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

yeah! so most likely you would feel either attraction or understanding for a certain element. i feel both of the above for air!!!!! air means freedom!!!


----------



## troublesum-chan (Aug 4, 2010)

i guess air is pretty cool tu

brb gonna go flyin


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

ok im gonna explain each. who wants to hear theirs first! note:the explanation was explained a little by uncle iroh when zuko wanted to learn lightning. he was teaching him the balance of each element.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> the horoscopes!? astrology!? the signs are placed under elements to give a general understanding of the personalities of each sign. it doesnt really have so much to do with avatar.



I know that but why did you just choose them at a random order to match them up for elements.

I mean I always thought I'd be Earth but still


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I know that but why did you just choose them at a random order to match them up for elements.
> 
> I mean I always thought I'd be Earth but still



what? what do you mean?


----------



## delirium (Aug 4, 2010)

Explain Earth.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

I googled the Astrology and never mind, I didn't know IRL they had seasons to go with them but my question still stands.

Why are the months chosen at random to match with each element (ex: Aries, Leo, Sagittarius) what kind of order is that?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

Deeper (or earlier) in the month, it changes. I was mere days from being a Earth element.
_# Leo - July 23 -August 21
# Virgo - August 22 - September 23_


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

sorry, my inyernet was down.


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

which element is first again?


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

Can you respond to my question please?


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 4, 2010)

What was it again?


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

Just look back a page lol


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I know that but why did you just choose them at a random order to match them up for elements.
> 
> I mean I always thought I'd be Earth but still



This was the question, right? :>


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

Yeah               .


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

It wasn't random days/dates. Each zodiac sign is under neath a higher class, a "month" and personality and temper, and depending on how far you are into that month, it changes.

# Leo - July 23 - August 21 (Closer to September, so its closer to being a Virgo>)
# Virgo - August 22 - September 23

Maybe this will help 


> *Astrology Zodiac Elements*
> 
> The twelve astrology signs are grouped into four essential elements to which life would not be possible without. They are air, fire, water and earth. Each of these four elements has characteristics independent to each that the twelve astrology signs are based upon. The symbolism is so exact that the element that your astrology sign lies under greatly influences your personality traits and your characteristics. All of the elements must work in sync with each other so that one does not get out of control, they have to co-exist peacefully in order to sustain a balance in life. That is what astrology signs are about, balancing yourself and others in the game of life.



In Avatar, the Fire Nation people are almost identical to people under the Fire zodiac, personality, wants, fears, things like that.

It makes sense Earth is September, Earth is kind of a "support/security" to Earthbenders and Air Nomads want freedom -- Libra -- October.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm a Water Bender.

I don't know how I feel about this.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 4, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm a Water Bender.
> 
> I don't know how I feel about this.



The strongest bending there is.  What's there to complain about?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

Wesley said:


> The strongest bending there is.  What's there to complain about?



 I disagree 

Earth bending and Air bending is the strongest.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

Why don't they go in order though?  Chronologically I mean.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Why don't they go in order though?  Chronologically I mean.



What...the elements? 

It is in an order, the right order....unless you meant something else. Please ehs-plan. 

Fire > Water > Earth > Air.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2010)

Wesley said:


> The strongest bending there is.  What's there to complain about?



Remember the white Waterbenders?

But, waterbending had some of my favorite thing from the show:

magic healing powers
unsettlingly sharp whips
ice
bloodbending


----------



## Mider T (Aug 4, 2010)

The months for the elements, like why isn't Fire Aries, Taurus, Gemini and so on and so forth?


----------



## Wesley (Aug 4, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I disagree
> 
> Earth bending and Air bending is the strongest.



Air Bending is the weakest.  It gets points for being flexible, but lacks force.  Earth Bending is powerful, but is not very flexible.  

Water bending is both forceful and flexible.  You can do anything with it that you can with the other elements.


----------



## Omolara (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm confused by the goings on in this thread. 

In the show, the seasons corresponded to the elements - Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall = Water, Earth, Fire, Air. Are we ascribing different affinities based on how the Zodiac classifies the signs, such as Taurus being an Earth sign? Is that what's going on here?
This seems to make thing all wonky. 

After all that's been going on in here, this is an... interesting direction.

Anywho, I see we have a bending debate!

I say no one element is more powerful overall than any other.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 5, 2010)

In terms of sheer power (and availability), Earth easily takes the cake.

But, Water has a lot of uses that don't really translate into the others; the most useful of which is the seemingly unrelated magic water powers, but I can live with that.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2010)

Mider T said:


> The months for the elements, like why isn't Fire Aries, Taurus, Gemini and so on and so forth?



Oh, because this is the real order for Astrology. 

@Wesley: You have to quash my dreams, don't ya? 

@Dr. Boskov Krevorkian:


> In terms of sheer power (and availability), Earth easily takes the cake.


You and I, go together like peas and pie


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 5, 2010)

LAZER BEAM ICE BULLETS

YOU LOSE


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 5, 2010)

Mider T said:


> The months for the elements, like why isn't Fire Aries, Taurus, Gemini and so on and so forth?



The reason why its not like that is because just like a sign is at a certain month, a sign is at a certain element for the signs personality.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm still not getting it, there's a fire horoscope in nearly each season and same with the others, that doesn't make sense.


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 5, 2010)

Mider t, I'm talking about the horoscopes in general. Not only with the avatar. An aries is a fire sign because of its personality. I am just making connections with astrology and Avatar, as the show is about elements.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 5, 2010)

I know, I'm not getting why an element goes across the year (IRL).


----------



## Kno7 (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm not liking where this thread is going 

As for the debate on the elements, I'm with Omolara. No element stands out as being clearly better than the rest.


----------



## troublesum-chan (Aug 5, 2010)

airbending is not the weakest mang

u can pretty much never cut off an airbender from their powuhs without killing them

of course its a mostly defensive kind of bending if thats what u mean

but also flying is pretty bad ass u gotta give it points for that


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 5, 2010)

It doesn't go across the year, a certain sign is just underneath that category. Like how a black kid is a black american. The year has nothing to do with it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 5, 2010)

I would think that use of Chinese astrology has more to do with bending....

Like for example, I'm metal horse, of course, since AtLA uses the four classical elements instead of the five Chinese ones, I guess I'd be an earthbender or an airbender. I think that's fitting for me, airbending and earthbending meshes well with the styles I've trained under.

Of course, I don't think birth and correlation of heavenly bodies would have near as much an effect on your bending powers as personality and natural uncosmic potential would.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 5, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> It doesn't go across the year, a certain sign is just underneath that category. Like how a black kid is a black american. The year has nothing to do with it.



It has all the months of the year under the elements.


----------



## tsunadefan (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't agree Rekai. Its about the basic 4. And the elements are most likely on personality. The Chinese zodiac has wood, water, fire, earth and metal. I don't think there were wood benders in the show and the Chinese one don't have air as an element. This is why I didn't brought the Chinese one in this. By the way, I'm a water monkey! Fun lover! Monkeys are the best!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 5, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> I don't agree Rekai. Its about the basic 4. And the elements are most likely on personality. The Chinese zodiac has wood, water, fire, earth and metal. I don't think there were wood benders in the show and the Chinese one don't have air as an element. This is why I didn't brought the Chinese one in this. By the way, I'm a water monkey! Fun lover! Monkeys are the best!


Well, wood and metal are often replaced with air

There are extra degrees of detail though, like I'm not just metal horse, but yang metal horse. Therefore, it leans more towards earth, as air is a yin style.

Also, air can be thought of as a wild card, since it is free, the reason why there is no air (at least most of the time) is that air is present in ALL things, air is likened more to qi, or chi, or even the breath of all things in the universe. So, it is present in all elements as well.

Of course, there's also fixed elements as well, like Horse for example has an element of fire.

But going by year is at best, fuzzy, in fact, there is a far more complicated way of reading your fate if you calculated it waaaaaay down to the hour, day, month, place of birth, as well as year.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm a Libra, therefore I'm an airbender..... Dang!! Was so hoping I was Earth! Or Fire!!!


----------



## Al-Yasa (Aug 5, 2010)

i was born in june am i a fire element ?

my star sign is cancer


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm an Earthbender, despite having no power or affinity for earth.


----------



## The World (Aug 5, 2010)

^Me too. I'm a Taurus. Bah. At least Toph is my favorite character. 



troublesum-chan said:


> airbending is not the weakest mang
> 
> u can pretty much never cut off an airbender from their powuhs without killing them
> 
> ...



I wish there was an airbender/Avatar that trained solely in speed that would become the "Flash" of the Avatar world, so he could disappear from sight all the time or vibrate his molecules.

I mean Aang would sometimes show his superspeed but not all the time. I think I remember him running at water at one time. I forgeeet.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 5, 2010)

The World said:


> I mean Aang would sometimes show his superspeed but not all the time. I think I remember him running at water at one time. I forgeeet.



_Warriors of Kyoshi
_ when the Unagi was chasing him.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 5, 2010)

If I recall, there were two other times: The Blue Spirit and The Drill. Other than that, I can't think of anything else. Maybe Crossroads of Destiny, during the battle, if you can count that.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 5, 2010)

He used it a few times, I believe.  

If you count the time where he ran away from the sea monster, too. 

Also, about to sit down with maybe the gf and start watching book one.


----------



## IsoloKiro (Aug 5, 2010)

Jove said:


> If I recall, there were two other times: The Blue Spirit and The Drill. Other than that, I can't think of anything else. Maybe Crossroads of Destiny, during the battle, if you can count that.



He used it during The Storm as well.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 5, 2010)

Aang ran on water in The Painted Lady, he used superspeed in The Tales of Ba Sing Se


----------



## The World (Aug 5, 2010)

You guys know your stuff. 

When he used superspeed in "The Drill" was that when he ran up Ba Sing Se's wall and did a Air Scooter downwards?

Also in the next series they should definitely have a subset of Airbending. Like Soundbending.


----------



## Burke (Aug 5, 2010)

One can only hope man.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 5, 2010)

Well if it counts, Aang can blow an instrument like nobody else can.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 5, 2010)

The World said:


> You guys know your stuff.
> 
> When he used superspeed in "The Drill" was that when he ran up Ba Sing Se's wall and did a Air Scooter downwards?



That, and he ran through the Drill itself after he broke up with Sokka and Katara in order to go deliver the final blow.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 5, 2010)

Oh I was simply referring to the one time he ran across water.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 5, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Oh I was simply referring to the one time he ran across water.



One time...?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 5, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Well if it counts, Aang can blow an instrument like nobody else can.


Not all of us like to hear about your fantasies about Aang giving you a banana-job....


You know what? Bending is overrated, I wanna be a badass normal that can go toe to toe with powerful benders.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 5, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Not all of us like to hear about your fantasies about Aang giving you a banana-job....
> 
> 
> You know what? Bending is overrated, I wanna be a badass normal that can go toe to toe with powerful benders.



Pfffffffffffffff...

Looks like we'll be on opposing sides for Korra.


----------



## Noah (Aug 5, 2010)

Oh sweet. I'm an Earthbender, apparently.

Beware my iron fist! (literally)


----------



## Mider T (Aug 5, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Not all of us like to hear about your fantasies about Aang giving you a banana-job....
> 
> 
> You know what? Bending is overrated, I wanna be a badass normal that can go toe to toe with powerful benders.



You'd have to wear a ponytail.  You sure you're ready to make such a bold move?


----------



## Semiotic Sacrilege (Aug 5, 2010)

I *love* this series! I finally got around to watching it while NickToons has been playing all the seasons and I was hooked immediately! I love the character development ( Zuko for the win!  ) and the story in general. The locations they visit are awesome and the influences from different cultures around the world are great!

I can't wait for the new series! 
I was a little sad when I heard they were jumping ahead into the future but I actually think it's a good move now. The most exciting things for Aang, Zuko, Katara, etc. have already happened and some flashbacks in the new series could elaborate more on what happened in the aftermath of the war. I also like how they are changing the overall structure of the new series as in the new Avatar has already mastered three elements. That way it won't have the exact same feeling as the first series. 

Can't wait!


----------



## Shade (Aug 5, 2010)

Link removed

Great interview with the Track Team. Here's some Korra stuff:


> UGO: I know that the Airbender follow up isn't until 2011, have you guys started chatting about that with everybody and preparing to work on that show?
> 
> Jeremy Zuckerman: A little bit, very briefly. A very brief stylistic conversation. We really don't know too much.
> 
> ...


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 5, 2010)

Mider T said:


> One time...?



In the painted lady Aang waterbended himself some ice to step on to get to Katara.
In Warriors Of Kyoshi, he was running on the surface of the water.

That's where the confusion steps in.


----------



## arcanecapricorn (Aug 5, 2010)

is there any more news on the legend of koora yet?


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 5, 2010)

Regarding Korra, I don't think we'll get anything for quite a number of months.
Worst case scenario, we won't see anything until SDCC '11. 
It's possible that we could get a trickle here and there until then, hopefully some character designs at least.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 5, 2010)

Jove said:


> Pfffffffffffffff...
> 
> Looks like we'll be on opposing sides for Korra.


?


Mider T said:


> You'd have to wear a ponytail.  You sure you're ready to make such a bold move?


I've been wearing one already for most of my life now 

Anyways, lets post fanart


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2010)

This made me laugh really hard.


----------



## Koi (Aug 6, 2010)

Aang _would_. (which is why i love him)


Also, SILVER SANDWICH!


----------



## The World (Aug 6, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> This made me laugh really hard.



And Momo's little theme song would be playing the background as Aang does that. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js5V7mDe_TU&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm rewatching book one and I'm remember why I love this show so much.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 6, 2010)

Did you see the ToonZone review that lambastes Book 1?

Link removed

I contend that it's well reasoned, but I've read more reviews from this guy and he's a total charlatan. His writing has no dignity whatsoever, a classic internet blog-style writer.

And here's Ed Liu's review of the Art Book: Link removed


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2010)

Jove said:


> Did you see the ToonZone review that lambastes Book 1?
> 
> Link removed
> 
> ...



He's an anonymity writer.

I don't like the way he writes, more or less, because there's an unnecessary air of condescension and arrogance about the writing; I have no problem reading some with which I disagree, and can even find valid criticisms within (like I did here), but once again, he's got this haughty air about him that really has no reason being there.

And, good god, some of his 'reasons' kind of boggle me.


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2010)

Someone post a 'haters gunna hate' gif.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2010)

no thanks

haters gonna hate gifs are the bile of the internet


----------



## Gunners (Aug 6, 2010)

N??ps said:
			
		

> Someone post a 'haters gunna hate' gif.





			
				Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:
			
		

> no thanks
> 
> haters gonna hate gifs are the bile of the internet


Sandbagged.


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2010)

Thats like double hatin' right there


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2010)

We have valid reasons and arguments.

We don't need memes.


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> We have valid reasons and arguments.
> 
> We don't need memes.



/ADD

I like your set. 
Not sure where its from though.... monster hunter?
Mines more topic relevant


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2010)

It's from Tri, more specifically.

There's like a hundred of those types of images.


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2010)

I like the underwater fire.



> Jove  1,352
> ReikaiDemon  1,277
> Mider T  775
> Nøøps  532



Thread elites


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 6, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I like the underwater fire.
> 
> 
> 
> Thread elites


Blarg honk? *covenant*


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Blarg honk? *covenant*



yes, we are the threads covenant elites.

All the others are grunts.
Except.... Jove is a prophet


----------



## Saint_Spike (Aug 6, 2010)

Im no Grunt, Im a Freelancer

Tex Pennsylvania


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2010)

Jimmeh.
You can be a brute


----------



## Saint_Spike (Aug 6, 2010)

I call Brute Chieftain with the gravity hammer then


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2010)

St. Jimmy said:


> I call Brute Chieftain with the gravity hammer then



Get on here more often and the title is yours


----------



## Saint_Spike (Aug 6, 2010)

No wait I wanna be a Hunter


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 6, 2010)

After recently re watching the whole series over. I think pretty much by the end of book 2. Katara was Azulas equal. I just think Azula is a bit over rated.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 6, 2010)

Everytime they fought, Katara always had the upper hand on Azula.  Water > Fire.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 6, 2010)

We need that Azula fangirl that refused to accept that Zuko was Azula's equal at the end to pop in again and try to argue that Azula was better than Katara.

Though I don't think Azula was overrated at all.


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 6, 2010)

Jove said:


> We need that Azula fangirl that refused to accept that Zuko was Azula's equal at the end to pop in again and try to argue that* Azula was better than Katara.
> *
> Though I don't think Azula was overrated at all.



Katara beat Azula without a high amount of water, during Sozens comet.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 6, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Katara beat Azula without a high amount of water, during Sozens comet.



But to her, there's certainly something about it that means Azula's better. I want to see her try. 

I mean, in dialogue Katara showed fear at the thought of facing Azula. Obviously that overrides the actual physical battles.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 6, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Katara beat Azula without a high amount of water, during Sozens comet.



Logic and fangirls cannot coexist with each other.


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 6, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Logic and fangirls cannot coexist with each other.



How could I have been such a fool! lol I should of took that into account before I posted. Oh well I would like to hear a fangirls ill logic.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Logic and fangirls cannot coexist with each other.



I disagree. 

I'm a fangirl and I apply logic long before I do for whatever I'm a fangirl of...


----------



## Piekage (Aug 6, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I'm a fangirl and I apply logic long before I do for whatever I'm a fangirl of...



You speak of falsehoods ma'am. No true fangirl could subject herself to logic  without exploding. And explosions can't can't type.


----------



## Noah (Aug 6, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Katara beat Azula without a high amount of water, during Sozens comet.



Tricksy girl and her trap cards!


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2010)

Piekage said:


> You speak of falsehoods ma'am. No true fangirl could subject herself to logic  without exploding. And explosions can't can't type.



I'm a mega fangirl for DtB and I apply logic all the time and like I said, I'm a mega fangirl of DtB. pek


----------



## Noah (Aug 6, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I'm a mega fangirl for DtB and I apply logic all the time and like I said, I'm a mega fangirl of DtB. pek



If you really applied logic, you wouldn't be a fangirl of DtB snaplololol



But seriously, why would anyone be a fan of Death to Babies? That sounds like a terrible hate campaign


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2010)

Noah said:


> If you really applied logic, you wouldn't be a fangirl of DtB snaplololol


WHAT!

You insult me and my pride, sir! Darker Than BLACK is a beautifully written anime/manga with the best acting, animation and surprisingly, dubbing I've ever heard in my life 

I...I should slap you with a fish!


----------



## Piekage (Aug 6, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> WHAT!
> 
> You insult me and my pride, sir! Darker Than BLACK is a beautifully written anime/manga with the best acting, animation and surprisingly, dubbing I've ever heard in my life
> 
> I...I should slap you with a fish!



Counterattack!!!


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Counterattack!!!



Well that was the weirdest time for something like that.


----------



## The World (Aug 6, 2010)

Really? I thought it was the perfect time.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2010)

The World said:


> Really? I thought it was the perfect time.



Exactly.

It was weird because it was perfect.

And funny too


----------



## Gunners (Aug 6, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Katara beat Azula without a high amount of water, during Sozens comet.



The ''lack'' of water worked in Katara's favour as Azula let her guard down. In a straight up battle, fresh mind, balanced field, Azula would tax her ass.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2010)

Gunners said:


> The ''lack'' of water worked in Katara's favour as Azula let her guard down. In a straight up battle, fresh mind, balanced field, Azula would tax her ass.



Definitely, plus Azula was mentally distracted.... :<


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 7, 2010)

Gunners said:


> The ''lack'' of water worked in Katara's favour as Azula let her guard down. In a straight up battle, fresh mind, balanced field, Azula would tax her ass.



Didn't work in CoD. Katara is simply a poor match-up for Azula.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 7, 2010)

Have to agree with Jove here*. Even though I'm a fairly adamant Azula fanboy, Waterbenders just have a distinct advantage over firebenders. 

Though, Azula's crazy certainly didn't help her either. 

As for Zuko being Azula's equal. That's tough to say. My personal opinion is that, had she had her mind about her, Azula would have beaten him in a one on one battle. It wouldn't have been an easy battle for her (certainly not as easy as she's been able to handle him in the past), but as long as she took Zuzu seriously. She probably would have come out on top. 

Going back to the Katara match up. Even if Azula was in her right mind, it still would have been a difficult fight for her. Azula looses in a straight up battle. If she wants to trump Katara, she'd have to out think her, and I don't think any of us doubt that she'd be capable of that. 

Of course, that's if she's in a right state of mind, which she wasn't. I'd even say that the added advantage of the comet actually worked against her. Once Zuko was out of the picture, she probably figured the fight was as good as over. After all, that filthy little water tribe girl didn't have anything giving her superpowers, might as well just toy with her. Just watch the way she charges and fires her lightening. She actually lays down on the roof in sort of a casual lounging position before letting the bolt fly.

She wasn't taking Katara seriously and she paid the price. 



*and I mean that literally, I _have _to agree with Jove or else I get put in the box again.


----------



## Darth (Aug 7, 2010)

A straight minded, no nonsense Azula fighting a straight minded Katara during Sozin's Comet would likely win pretty much hands down. Katara doesn't really have an answer to Azula's lightning, and a sane Azula would probably think to auto-thaw herself out of the ice if ever she was frozen.

Not only that, but her fire tech pretty much evaporates anything Katara could throw at her. I mean, short of fighting on a river or lake, Katara doesn't exactly have much of an advantage.


----------



## Noah (Aug 7, 2010)

Darth said:


> A straight minded, no nonsense Azula fighting a straight minded Katara during Sozin's Comet would likely win pretty much hands down. Katara doesn't really have an answer to Azula's lightning, and *a sane Azula would probably think to auto-thaw herself out of the ice if ever she was frozen.*
> 
> Not only that, but her fire tech pretty much evaporates anything Katara could throw at her. I mean, short of fighting on a river or lake, Katara doesn't exactly have much of an advantage.



That was always my question after seeing Sozin's Comet. In book one, Zuko is able to melt the ice just because it's morning. Super powered Azula shouldn't even really have to think about melting it. That little ice trap shouldn't have been a problem for her. Hell, even if she didn't thaw herself, I imagine she'd be able to melt the chains too.

But I guess it can be attributed to her being Nutty McCrazyTown and not thinking rationally.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2010)

If Katara had been fighting a saner Azula, Azula would have melted herself out of the ice (or tried to) and would have definintly won the battle. pek


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 7, 2010)

Wasn't it water encased in ice? I'm pretty sure it was.


----------



## Noah (Aug 7, 2010)

I think it's more like Katara was reverting the ice to water as she moved


----------



## Mider T (Aug 7, 2010)

If she was trapped in ice, all she'd have to do is the breath of fire.  It's not one of her preferred moves (she only uses it while insane) but anything to win.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 7, 2010)

Jove said:


> Didn't work in CoD. Katara is simply a poor match-up for Azula.



Weren't they under ground away from sun light and in a damp location?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 7, 2010)

It wasn't a damp location, but it was underground. Though, it didn't appear to hinder Azula, nor Zuko. In fact, it was the most powerful we've seen Zuko yet. The same technique that Katara used to trap Azula would have worked anywhere there is water available. Katara is, most likely, the second best Waterbender in the World, you know.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 7, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I'm a fangirl and I apply logic long before I do for whatever I'm a fangirl of...





Piekage said:


> You speak of falsehoods ma'am. No true fangirl could subject herself to logic  without exploding. And explosions can't can't type.





Terra Branford said:


> WHAT!
> 
> You insult me and my pride, sir! Darker Than BLACK is a beautifully written anime/manga with the best acting, animation and surprisingly, dubbing I've ever heard in my life
> 
> I...I should slap you with a fish!


Point, match: Piekage

Pie must be the long lost Freelancer, Florida.


----------



## Kno7 (Aug 7, 2010)

Jove said:


> It wasn't a damp location, but it was underground. Though, it didn't appear to hinder Azula, nor Zuko. In fact, it was the most powerful we've seen Zuko yet. The same technique that Katara used to trap Azula would have worked anywhere there is water available. Katara is, most likely, the second best Waterbender in the World, you know.



Agreed, Being underground doesn't seem to affect firebenders at all. Mere seconds after the solar eclipse Ozai and Azula seemed to be able to generate fully powered fire/electricity, aswell as in CoD.


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2010)

What happened to T ;-;


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2010)

Not all fangirls -- most are... -- are rabid fangirls. But let's look at the _fanboys_ (). I have a few crazy things I've heard from_ loads_ of them, so don't me started! Just because others are a bit rabid, does not mean I am 

Yea, what happened to Mider T?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 7, 2010)

Midder was being spammy in the Academy Registration; his Lamebook phase had already put him on notice.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 7, 2010)

I just realized I'll never get to see Toph city bending.


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2010)

How longs the ban.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I just realized I'll never get to see Toph city bending.



Well there is an episode where she recreates Omashu in the sand pek


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 7, 2010)

I only have Book one downloaded right now, so I'm excited for having two and getting to meet Toph all over again.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 7, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Point, match: Piekage
> 
> Pie must be the *long lost *Freelancer, Florida.



For now.



> If she was trapped in ice, all she'd have to do is the breath of fire. It's not one of her preferred moves (she only uses it while insane) but anything to win.



She might not have been able to move, let alone breathe(and fire comes from the breath after all). Every inch of her was frozen solid after all. At least that, and being crazy, was what I always thought when Azula didn't free herself.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2010)

Piekage said:


> She might _not have been able to move, let alone breathe(and fire comes from the breath after all). _Every inch of her was frozen solid after all. At least that, and being crazy, was what I always thought when Azula didn't free herself.



If Katara could do it by breathing out through her nose, so could Azula, a far more experienced fighter....


----------



## Piekage (Aug 7, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> If Katara could do it by breathing out through her nose, so could Azula, a far more experienced fighter....



Katara is a Waterbender though, so it's not so hard to believe that she'd be able to break free.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Katara is a Waterbender though, so it's not so hard to believe that she'd be able to break free.



But if she could breathe out through her nose, so could Azula. Zuko did it, and he _even_ in the movie lol


----------



## Piekage (Aug 7, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> But if she could breathe out through her nose, so could Azula. Zuko did it, and he _even_ in the movie lol



Katara had planned on freezing herself and probably prepared herself. Has someone ever sat on your chest? It's like that; constricting your chest/stomach makes it harder to breathe, and all of Azula's body was constricted all at once. And her mouth was closed iirc, so if she wanted to Breath of Fire she'd turn her mouth into ash. Besides, Breath of Fire would have probably done more damage than good; scolding hot water doesn't feel very good, and if she did have difficulty breathing, she may not have been able to evaporate enough of it so that she didn't get burned. It's also possible that Katara actively kept Azula contained while she tied Azula up. 

Not saying Azula couldn't have gotten out, but it's not so unbelievable that she didn't.

Zuko's entire body wasn't frozen. And let us not talk of the movie. I'm only just recovering from the trauma that thing has inflicted on my psyche.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Katara had planned on freezing herself and probably prepared herself. Has someone ever sat on your chest? It's like that; constricting your chest/stomach makes it harder to breathe, and all of Azula's body was constricted all at once. And her mouth was closed iirc, so if she wanted to Breath of Fire she'd turn her mouth into ash. Besides, Breath of Fire would have probably done more damage than good; scolding hot water doesn't feel very good, and if she did have difficulty breathing, she may not have been able to evaporate enough of it so that she didn't get burned. It's also possible that Katara actively kept Azula contained while she tied Azula up.
> 
> Not saying Azula couldn't have gotten out, but it's not so unbelievable that she didn't.
> 
> Zuko's entire body wasn't frozen. And let us not talk of the movie. I'm only just recovering from the trauma that thing has inflicted on my psyche.



She doesn't have to use the Breath of Fire, she could have done what Zuko did -- used his hands, breathed out through his nose. Anything.

She was just too insane at the moment to think clearly.

Katara would have lost if she were sane 

Well, considering she was very screwed up at the moment, I know its believable. Just sayin' Azula is better


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 8, 2010)

Iroh is better than both of them.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> She doesn't have to use the Breath of Fire, she could have done what Zuko did -- used his hands, breathed out through his nose. Anything.
> 
> She was just too insane at the moment to think clearly.
> 
> ...



With Sozin's Comet? Yeah, a sane Azula probably is better, but base Azula isn't quite as good (_very thin_ line) as base Katara, as Crossroads of Destiny has shown.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> She doesn't have to use the Breath of Fire, she could have done what Zuko did -- used his hands, breathed out through his nose.



But how? There's a pretty significant difference between exhaling into a solid rather than a liquid. Azula was encased in ice, not water. Where was her breath going to go?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 8, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> But how? There's a pretty significant difference between exhaling into a solid rather than a liquid. Azula was encased in ice, not water. Where was her breath going to go?


She probably learned she needed to do that after she froze Zuko, neat how that comes back.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> But how? There's a pretty significant difference between exhaling into a solid rather than a liquid. Azula was encased in ice, not water. Where was her breath going to go?



It would, I guess, heat up at the entrance of her nose until it started to melt.

However Zuko managed it, she could too. I don't know how, its Avatar world, they bend elements. 

You can watch how he does it. Azula could have applied that to her skills, every Fire bender should know it. 

Long review is here.

Its around 20:30.  Azula coulda, she just didn't....


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 8, 2010)

Also consider that it took Zuko a couple of seconds to actually do that. In that same amount of time Katara already had Azula chained to the grate. It pretty much comes down to reaction time. Katara caught an overconfident (and de-sane) Azula by surprise and was able to take advantage of it before Azula recovered.

This is coming from an Azula fanboy by the way. Just one that has no problem giving Katara her due props in that fight.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 8, 2010)

i was disappointed by the movie but it was ok. however i didnt watch the second two books so im confused.
 () ()
 (oo)
 (><)


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 8, 2010)

Honestly, why does this debate on this little matter have to be so long?  It happened, it's canon, end of story. Azula either does or she doesn't have the ability to break free. Either way, she didn't take opportunity, whether or not she was able to, it's irrelevant now.


----------



## Kno7 (Aug 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> It would, I guess, heat up at the entrance of her nose until it started to melt.
> 
> However Zuko managed it, she could too. I don't know how, its Avatar world, they bend elements.
> 
> ...



Terra, Stab is also pointing out that Zuko was incased in _water_, not ice. Just watch the sequence and look at how different it is to Azula's. While Zuko was trapped he could even talk, Azula could only move her eyes, she was paralyzed.

Stating Azula could do it because Zuko could is not a valid argument; they were in two different positions completely.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 8, 2010)

I love how Azula nerfed herself in that fight by suddenly losing every single one of her fucking marbles.  Simultaneously.  I mean, even though the foundation was laid in some of the earlier episodes, she went through a complete mental breakdown in ONE SHOW.  

I still find myself chuckling about that when I think about it.

Still, that didn't stop Zuko vs. Azula from being my favorite fight in the finale.  Followed closely by the White Lotus Society handing out ass-whoopings like condoms at a free clinic.  Then Iron Toph and the antics of Sokka ("My space sword!").  Last in the list was Aang vs. Ozai.  I didn't enjoy this one very much.

Speaking of which, I kinda had a feeling they would indeed do another show from the time that Sokka, you guessed it, lost his sword.  The later cliffhanger regarding the fate fo Zuko's mother further sealed the deal for me on this one.

So, I figure that Sokka's sword is gonna make a cameo appearance in Korra along with us finally finding out what happened to Zuko's mom.


----------



## Omolara (Aug 8, 2010)

Katara completely immobilized both of them, and both were gasping and choking once it was over. 
Zuko could at least move and used the last of his ability to do so/ breathe to melt the ice. Yes, Azula was slipping mentally, but lets give Katara her credit here. 
It seems that you need to at least be able to do those things to bend, and Azula could apparently do neither.
Katara gave herself time to take a deep breath before freezing them both. Azula didn't get that chance.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 8, 2010)

Nimander said:


> I love how Azula nerfed herself in that fight by suddenly losing every single one of her fucking marbles.  Simultaneously.  I mean, even though the foundation was laid in some of the earlier episodes, she went through a complete mental breakdown in ONE SHOW.
> 
> I still find myself chuckling about that when I think about it.
> 
> ...


That would be pretty amusing that it's just around in the background or something


----------



## Darth (Aug 8, 2010)

Sokka's sword in the Legend of Korra?

That'd be epic.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 8, 2010)

Good-bye, cool space sword


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 8, 2010)

N??ps said:


> How longs the ban.



A week.


A few things to add to the Azula v. Katara discussion:

1. Piekage is exactly right. It's not like Katara savored the moment. She quickly immobilized Azula. Even if Azula had melted the ice, Katara still would have the advantage and would have constrained her. She outmaneuvered completely. A sane Azula could have fallen for it as well.

2. This just shows how much more appropriate Zuko would have been to become Fire Lord over Azula. The underlying aspect of Zuko's story was that by traveling throughout the World, even as a banished Prince and later as a refugee, he understood the intricacies of the other Nations. 

So, he simply knows more than Azula. He's experienced more. One of those experiences involves being in Arctic environments and, of course, being frozen in ice. Azula looked totally baffled at being frozen. I'm not sure a totally focused Azula wouldn't be confused, either. And confused long enough for Katara to restrain her.


----------



## Burke (Aug 8, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Honestly, why does this debate on this little matter have to be so long?



Fangirls


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 8, 2010)

I see, well them fangirls need to get laid


----------



## Burke (Aug 8, 2010)

Ill ask you guys since i like you most.
What wih the recen changes in some peoples sets where its their existing set except someone has a duck bill and there is the face of some guy with glasses


----------



## Platinum (Aug 8, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Ill ask you guys since i like you most.
> What wih the recen changes in some peoples sets where its their existing set except someone has a duck bill and there is the face of some guy with glasses



It's a blender thing.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 8, 2010)

it's GYROMANCY!


----------



## Burke (Aug 8, 2010)

Ugh, blender people. They need to go back to 4chan 
cept T


----------



## Shade (Aug 9, 2010)

I hope this thread doesn't dip to the second page of the Theatre like it did during the season 3 gap era.


----------



## Burke (Aug 9, 2010)

That would be horrible 
cmon were #1 in the section gaiz!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 9, 2010)

N??ps said:


> That would be horrible
> cmon were #1 in the section gaiz!


I'd rather we do it through legitimate means. Besides, we'll practically be glued to the top once Korra premiers


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 9, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> _Also consider that it took Zuko a couple of seconds to actually do that. In that same amount of time Katara already had Azula chained to the grate. It pretty much comes down to reaction time. Katara caught an overconfident (and de-sane) Azula by surprise and was able to take advantage of it before Azula recovered._
> 
> This is coming from an Azula fanboy by the way. Just one that has no problem giving Katara her due props in that fight.



Well, the surprise thing definitely makes sense. So basically Katara won a lamers' way? 
If Azula had her rematch...if only :ho



Kno7 said:


> Terra, Stab is also pointing out that Zuko was incased in _water_, not ice. Just watch the sequence and look at how different it is to Azula's. While Zuko was trapped he could even talk, Azula could only move her eyes, she was paralyzed.
> -----Stating Azula could do it because Zuko could is not a valid argument; they were in two different positions completely.



Zuko was encased in ice though. Ice is ice, the only difference (the different situation they were in) was that Zuko's head was free >.> Yea, that is different, but not enough to hinder her powers, but--

And actually, she's a far more experienced firebender than Zuko. If Zuko, a lesser of her, could manage to break free, then so could have Azula -- a comet was there to help her out too. But she was far too unstable and lost her battlefield prowess.

Katara won this match.

Next time -- maybe  -- when Azula isn't in her mental house, she will get her rematch and destroy Katara!


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 9, 2010)

Hmmm, I was watching an interview with M. Night Shyalaman about the movie(prior to it actually coming out), since i know how everyone here loves to talk about the movie. 

It's odd because because he goes back and forth. On one hand, he states that he's lucky that the studios allow him to use his "voice"(cheesy ass terminology, by the way), suggesting that contrary to my earlier claims, the movie was not studio hijacked.

However, in the same interview, he also seems to be defending himself with lines like: "There is so much material that it's hard to fit it all in". 

It's as if he knows people are going to be criticial of it, while stating that it was "his" movie. Strange.


----------



## Koi (Aug 9, 2010)

It's like he's trying to backpedal but go forward at the same time.  Seriously I just think the dude is a hardcore megalomaniac.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 9, 2010)

Yeah, he certainly seems to be full of himself.

I would like to know if there are any interviews of him after it was released.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 9, 2010)

Since it was released prior to any actual backlash feedback, I'd assume he knew what he was releasing, and didn't want to seem like he wasn't backing his own movie.  Or, yes, he really could be that delusional about himself and his talents.


----------



## Noah (Aug 10, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Yeah, he certainly seems to be full of himself.
> 
> I would like to know if there are any interviews of him after it was released.





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Since it was released prior to any actual backlash feedback, I'd assume he knew what he was releasing, and didn't want to seem like he wasn't backing his own movie.  *Or, yes, he really could be that delusional about himself and his talents.*[/QUOTE
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C76QBg2p78[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 10, 2010)

I think what we got here is...

The Predestination Paradox!

M. Night went back in time, to rectify the whole thing, but ended up exactly causing the movie now as it stands, maybe even making it a tiny bit worse. Now, he killed his past self, and have to live as himself before the movie.


----------



## The World (Aug 10, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Katara beat Azula without a high amount of water, during Sozens comet.



Wasn't it stated in the show itself that if Azula had not lost her mind and was in complete control that she would have beat both Zuko and Katara?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 10, 2010)

The World said:


> Wasn't it stated in the show itself that if Azula had not lost her mind and was in complete control that she would have beat both Zuko and Katara?



Absolutely not.


----------



## The World (Aug 10, 2010)

Hrmmm I remember Zuko stating something along those lines, that he would have lost if Azule was sane.


----------



## Kno7 (Aug 10, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Zuko was encased in ice though. Ice is ice, the only difference (the different situation they were in) was that Zuko's head was free >.> Yea, that is different, but not enough to hinder her powers, but--


Nah, the way Katara swirls the water around Zuko and then transforms it into ice suggests that he's only surrounded by ice, not necessarily encased. His head was free, he could move and talk and we could hear, hence, he not completely encased in ice. Azula was completely frozen solid, she could only move her eyes.
Actually just by the sound of Zuko's voice, it sounds like he's in a bubble, an ice bubble in fact.




Terra Branford said:


> And actually, she's a far more experienced firebender than Zuko.


Debatable. I'd bet that Zuko has faced more waterbending than Azula due to his banishment. So while Azula might be more proficient in firebending, Zuko's actual experience compensates for it, especially against a waterbender.



Terra Branford said:


> If Zuko, *a lesser of her*, could manage to break free, then so could have Azula -- a comet was there to help her out too. But she was far too unstable and lost her battlefield prowess.
> 
> Katara won this match.
> 
> Next time -- maybe  -- when Azula isn't in her mental house, she will get her rematch and destroy Katara!


Again, you're just stating _if Zuko could Azula could_ which is a bad argument. Azula isn't a hyped up version of Zuko; she lacks the experience Zuko has against waterbenders, and the way Katara trapped her was much more effective than Zuko's case.

If you're saying she was caught off guard because she was going mental, then _maybe_. But saying "Zuko could so Azula should too"? I'm not buying it.

Destroying Katara? I think CoD proved Katara'd be a fair match up against her.


----------



## uchia2000 (Aug 10, 2010)

Was there any specified reason why Azula didn't kill Katara in the Earth Kingdom?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 10, 2010)

uchia2000 said:


> Was there any specified reason why Azula didn't kill Katara in the Earth Kingdom?


If I had to guess, secks


----------



## Piekage (Aug 10, 2010)

The World said:


> Hrmmm I remember Zuko stating something along those lines, that he would have lost if Azule was sane.



True enough, but he said that they two of them would need to work together to beat her, not that they would both lose. 



> Was there any specified reason why Azula didn't kill Katara in the Earth Kingdom?



Teh secks of course.

What's more likely though, Azula probably wanted information from Katara and intended to use her as bait against Aang at some point. Unbeknownst to her, Aang had a spiritual vision that warned him Katara was in danger.

But secks is a better answer.


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 10, 2010)

The World said:


> Hrmmm I remember Zuko stating something along those lines, that he would have lost if Azule was sane.



No he didn't say that he would lose. I think he was just being cautious, it would be stupid to under estimate her. If we look at the facts, Zuko had been Azulas equal since he came to terms with himself, and learned the true meaning of firebending. As far as firebending goes he was her equal, but experience wise he was far ahead of her. Zuko has been through so much more shit than Azula, and he is a better fighter without bending, so I think Zuko could of beat her no matter how sane she was. Katara already proved she is better than Azula at CoD.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 10, 2010)

In all likelihood, Azula didn't care who Katara was at all until Ba Sing Se. She was focused solely on Aang, so really that was Katara's chance to take out Azula. But, of course, she was afraid of her and no one realized the opportunity.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 10, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> No he didn't say that he would lose. I think he was just being cautious, it would be stupid to under estimate her. If we look at the facts, Zuko had been Azulas equal since he came to terms with himself, and learned the true meaning of firebending. As far as firebending goes he was her equal, but experience wise he was far ahead of her. Zuko has been through so much more shit than Azula, and he is a better fighter without bending, so I think Zuko could of beat her no matter how sane she was. Katara already proved she is better than Azula at CoD.



I still don't see anything that would show them as equal? At Boiling Rock there wasn't really enough of a battle to make a judgment. At the beginning of "The Southern Raiders", yeah, they basically fought to a stand still, but given the huge grin on Azula's face during the entire battle (which could also be a sign that she was already starting to loose it). I got the feeling she wasn't taking him seriously. Then, by Sozin's Comet, she'd pretty much gone loony tunes.


----------



## Burke (Aug 10, 2010)

I expect Jove to make 10 full posts on each legend of korra episode


----------



## Shade (Aug 10, 2010)

^ Hopefully, it's of enough quality to warrant such a response.

Rewatching Season 1 makes me feel old. A lot can happen in five years.


----------



## IsoloKiro (Aug 10, 2010)

So I just watched the episode Lake Laogai again and when the gang triggered Jet's memories of the Fire Nation destroying his home, was that Colonel Mongke they showed leading the attack?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 10, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I still don't see anything that would show them as equal? At Boiling Rock there wasn't really enough of a battle to make a judgment. At the beginning of "The Southern Raiders", yeah, they basically fought to a stand still, but given the huge grin on Azula's face during the entire battle (which could also be a sign that she was already starting to loose it). I got the feeling she wasn't taking him seriously. Then, by Sozin's Comet, she'd pretty much gone loony tunes.



But would you agree that we also did not see Zuko fighting to his fullest vs. Azula?

And really, it doesn't matter much because Avatar doesn't have power levels beyond the Avatar, and no elemental strengths/vulnerabilities that I could ascertain. It's one of the greatest charms of the series.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 10, 2010)

IsoloKiro said:


> So I just watched the episode Lake Laogai again and when the gang triggered Jet's memories of the Fire Nation destroying his home, was that Colonel Mongke they showed leading the attack?



IF I recall, yes.

That episode kind of bugged me. Jet, who could fight Zuko and Aang fairly evenly, is killed by a generic attack(that if I recall, Zuko was hit with and survived).

Sure, presumably his killer is pretty tough, but the end of the episode makes a joke of him and he never really gets to show any skill.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 10, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> IF I recall, yes.
> 
> That episode kind of bugged me. Jet, who could fight Zuko and Aang fairly evenly, is killed by a generic attack(that if I recall, Zuko was hit with and survived).
> 
> Sure, presumably his killer is pretty tough, but the end of the episode makes a joke of him and he never really gets to show any skill.


My guess is that Jet didn't take it like Zuko did, and wasn't prepared to lessen the impact. I doubt fighting Earthbenders was ever a high priority for Jet


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 10, 2010)

Jove said:


> But would you agree that we also did not see Zuko fighting to his fullest vs. Azula?



Oh certainly. I was just having issues with 




> And really, it doesn't matter much because Avatar doesn't have power levels beyond the Avatar, and no elemental strengths/vulnerabilities that I could ascertain. It's one of the greatest charms of the series.



Agreed completely. And since were talking about Azula anyway. This was just something that I was thinking about earlier today. This was pretty much triggered by people on another board try to pass off Azula as being "evil from birth".

Here, from the Avatar and the Fire Lord



> Zuko: "You sent this, didn't youF I found the secret history. Which, by the way should be renamed "the history most people already know." The note said that I needed to know about my great-grandfather's death, but he was still alive in the end."
> 
> Iroh: "No?he wasn't."
> 
> ...



If Zuko has that struggle within him because of who his ancestors are, then shouldn't Azula also. Her being favored by Ozai sure didn't help, and that she never really had to struggle with anything. Either while growing up or anything like what Zuko went through. She was sheltered and raised by a sociopath. Because of all that, she never really had to deal with any sort of inner conflict, or at least it made it much easier for her to ignore. 

That is, until her friends turned on her, then her father abandoned her. I think a big part of her breakdown was because, for the first time in her life, she had reason to start doubting herself and her choices. Unfortunately, whereas Zuko had years to work through his inner conflicts and finally figure out who he was. Azula had that thrust onto her in the course of a day (I figure it started at Boiling Rock, but didn't really hit her until the incident with her father).

Which was apparently not quiet enough time.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 10, 2010)

Azula and Zuko were just fundamentally different.  Recall the reason for Zuko being banished in the first place: standing up to his father for fear that some of his comrades would be killed in battle IIRC.  Azula, to the best of my recollection, NEVER showed that level of regard for anyone else.  She was born self-centered, and her environment only exacerbated that basic flaw in her personality.

Now, had the siblings had a better environment to be raised in, Zuko could very well have been the person to set Azula on the straight and narrow somewhere further down the road.  But without Zuko or her mother there to provide a contrast to what she saw all around her, Azula completely and totally became a product of her environment.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 10, 2010)

Kno7 said:


> Nah, the way Katara swirls the water around Zuko and then transforms it into ice suggests that he's only surrounded by ice, not necessarily encased. His head was free, he could move and talk and we could hear, hence, he not completely encased in ice. Azula was completely frozen solid, she could only move her eyes.
> Actually just by the sound of Zuko's voice, it sounds like he's in a bubble, an ice bubble in fact.



His body was encased, but his head wasn't. It wasn't a empty shell around him, or he really wouldn't have needed to use fire, but break free. His hands and head was free...

Wait, you know there are two times when he was frozen in ice, right? Once in a dome of ice, and then another when she smashes him against the wall and then the sun rises.




Kno7 said:


> Debatable. I'd bet that Zuko has faced more waterbending than Azula due to his banishment. So while Azula might be more proficient in firebending, Zuko's actual experience compensates for it, especially against a waterbender.



Azula is a battle expert, she would/does know far more than Zuko. She knew exactly what Katara would do in previous episodes, but her insanity broke that part.



Kno7 said:


> Again, you're just stating _if Zuko could Azula could_ which is a bad argument. Azula isn't a hyped up version of Zuko; she lacks the experience Zuko has against waterbenders, and the way Katara trapped her was much more effective than Zuko's case.
> 
> If you're saying she was caught off guard because she was going mental, then _maybe_. But saying "Zuko could so Azula should too"? I'm not buying it.
> 
> Destroying Katara? I think CoD proved Katara'd be a fair match up against her.



Because she was far advanced in this type of thing than Zuko, the show states so I believe, also you can see it for yourself watching the show. That's why it was a "my sister has been the ultimate daughter" thing. (forget the exact words he says lol) She is far more advanced in battle techniques than he is, far more. It was the fact that she was breaking down that she lost against Katara. And in a normal circumstance, Azula would have broken through/out of the ice.

She was too busy freaking out to pay attention, but Azula would still own.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 10, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I still don't see anything that would show them as equal? At Boiling Rock there wasn't really enough of a battle to make a judgment. At the beginning of "The Southern Raiders", yeah, they basically fought to a stand still, but given the huge grin on Azula's face during the entire battle (which could also be a sign that she was already starting to loose it). I got the feeling she wasn't taking him seriously. Then, by Sozin's Comet, she'd pretty much gone loony tunes.



She was looking forward to being an only child. Grinning during a fight isn't a sign of not taking the battle seriously, in her case it showed eagerness to get the job done.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 11, 2010)

Gunners said:


> She was looking forward to being an only child. Grinning during a fight isn't a sign of not taking the battle seriously, in her case it showed eagerness to get the job done.



That's what I thought it was.

I don't think she started to lose it at that time, I think it was a little after, once she got the time to think about everything and the past. 

I mostly saw her grins as a "Let's get this battle started already!" grin.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 11, 2010)

I think that grin was more under the shade of sadistic glee than eagerness to scrap...


----------



## Burke (Aug 11, 2010)

Are we still discussing Azula's capability?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 11, 2010)

Sort of. I was making a case for her not being totally evil. 



Nimander said:


> Azula and Zuko were just fundamentally different.  Recall the reason for Zuko being banished in the first place: standing up to his father for fear that some of his comrades would be killed in battle IIRC.  Azula, to the best of my recollection, NEVER showed that level of regard for anyone else.  She was born self-centered, and her environment only exacerbated that basic flaw in her personality.
> 
> Now, had the siblings had a better environment to be raised in, Zuko could very well have been the person to set Azula on the straight and narrow somewhere further down the road.  But without Zuko or her mother there to provide a contrast to what she saw all around her, Azula completely and totally became a product of her environment.



That's actually what I was trying to get at. It's sort of a nature vs. nurture thing. Some people are just far more susceptible to their environment than others.  Zuko was actually a much stronger person than Azula was and was able to keep to his own nature despite his upbringing. Though being shunned by his father and getting more attention his mother probably helped.

Azula on the other hand was more of a "nurture" type personality, and was therefore far more susceptible to her environment.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 11, 2010)

There might be a genetic aspect as well, Zuko inheriting most of the traits of his maternal side, with Azula inheriting the paternal attributes. In fact, you can see it a bit in the character designs. There is no striking resemblance between any of the four, but I see a slight physical resemblance between Ursa and Zuko, and between Ozai and Azula.

It's an interesting aspect to consider, because it makes you wonder about how this was fated, and I find that the more I consider the story, the more fate become an issue within it (along with causation/determinism, free will, etc.).


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 11, 2010)

Jove said:


> There might be a genetic aspect as well, Zuko inheriting most of the traits of his maternal side, with Azula inheriting the paternal attributes. In fact, you can see it a bit in the character designs. There is no striking resemblance between any of the four, but I see a slight physical resemblance between Ursa and Zuko, and between Ozai and Azula.
> 
> It's an interesting aspect to consider, because it makes you wonder about how this was fated, and I find that the more I consider the story, the more fate become an issue within it (along with causation/determinism, free will, etc.).


Ursa's granpop was Roku, right?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 11, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Ursa's granpop was Roku, right?



Yup, that's why I think the delineation goes a bit genetically. Since, as was said before, Azula can be traced back to Roku as well, there has to be something concrete that separates them. But as stab mentioned, "nuture" is a big part as well... more specifically, it can help rehabilitate Azula.

But to be fair, it only works because we know a little about Roku's personality. Roku is the Avatar, yes, but that is not passed down onto Zuko. So being the descendant of an Avatar really doesn't mean much.

Now that I think about it, Zuko's indecisiveness is probably from Roku.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 11, 2010)

I also have a theory that Ozai realized that Azula could potentially surpass him one day (because of her natural talent), and pretty much manipulated her emotionally. Purposefully creating a rift between her and Ursa while reinforcing her dependence on him just to make sure she wouldn't turn against and try to overthrow him.

It also makes it much more ironic that the kid he considered too weak to worry about was the one that ended up doing just that.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 11, 2010)

Ozai's downfall was underestimating Zuko.  He was an integral part of the fall of the Fire Nation (the current one, anyways) and Ozai's new world order shtick, and he arguably he wouldn't have been if he had been treated differently.  He may not have agreed with his Father's tactics, but it was only because he was banished and shamed that he followed and eventually trained the Avatar.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 11, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Ozai's downfall was underestimating Zuko.  He was an integral part of the fall of the Fire Nation (the current one, anyways) and Ozai's new world order shtick, and he arguably he wouldn't have been if he had been treated differently.  _He may not have agreed with his Father's tactics, but it was only because he was banished and shamed that he followed and eventually trained the Avatar_.



Yup, that's what Ozai gets for acting so high and mighty. Like thinkin' Iroh _wouldn't_ have taught Zuko to redirect lighting. 

_I sorta knew that Zuko would end up being good from the start, and then released when Aang's first teacher left that Zuko would fill in -- although I didn't know when, I just knew it _


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 11, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I also have a theory that Ozai realized that Azula could potentially surpass him one day (because of her natural talent), and pretty much manipulated her emotionally. Purposefully creating a rift between her and Ursa while reinforcing her dependence on him just to make sure she wouldn't turn against and try to overthrow him.



That's an interesting theory, but I don't think Azula had much chance of surpassing Ozai. At least, not before age took care of it for her.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 11, 2010)

Was I the only one who guessed Azula was going to lose her shit pretty early in the series?


----------



## Gunners (Aug 11, 2010)

I can't remember things clearly but didn't Azula suggest that her and Zuko should overthrow Ozai together.

I personally think Azula would have made an attempt on Ozai's life when she reached her 20s or 30s.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 11, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Was I the only one who guessed Azula was going to lose her shit pretty early in the series?



Nah, I had a feeling she would too. :>

She wasn't exactly stable appearing when she'd go out and attack (with the intent to kill) her brother, or a 12 year old boy.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 11, 2010)

Naw, that's not really what tipped me off.

She was incredibly gifted, and subsequently very confident in herself.  But, he also lived in fantasy world where everything was going to work for her forever--that she was unstoppable, and it was obvious that once things stopped going her way, she'd break apart like a tower of beer cans in a hurricane.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 11, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Naw, that's not really what tipped me off.
> 
> She was incredibly gifted, and subsequently very confident in herself.  But, he also lived in fantasy world where everything was going to work for her forever--that she was unstoppable, and it was obvious that once things stopped going her way, she'd break apart like a tower of beer cans in a hurricane.



I thought that one day her constant fighting at her brother would tire her down, mentally of course, and then that weakness was pushed over the edge at the end, when she was freaking out and seeing her mother. The Beach episode really gave it away though, you can totally tell she's gonna fall apart soon.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 11, 2010)

Jove said:


> There is no striking resemblance between any of the four, but I see a slight physical resemblance between Ursa and Zuko, and between Ozai and Azula.



Really now?
Ozai was made to look like an older Zuko without a scar.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 11, 2010)

I actually didn't see the Azula breakdown coming until the final Book, but by then it was indeed becoming increasingly obvious that her mind was, how should I say this: _fragile_.

But Azula fit the mad genius trope perfectly, so I suppose it shouldn't have come to me as slowly as it did.  And for some reason, I especially love those characters the most in stories I read, or in this case, watch.  Because they honestly can go either way.  The insanity that comes with their unparalleled genius either makes them awesome villains (and if Azula wasn't awesome, she came pretty damn close) or awesome tragic heroes (Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars comes to mind for this example).  

Either way it's a classic "lesson" about how the gifts we can so envy in others can come with their own drawbacks or prices, and that we should be content with what we have.  Or something like that.

How did I get on this train of thought again?


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 12, 2010)

Momo       .


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 12, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Really now?
> Ozai was made to look like an older Zuko without a scar.



If that was their intention, I never saw it. I always saw a closer resemblance between Zuko and Ursa.


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

lol Azula's evilness in the whole "The Beach" episode is friggin hilarious   

I'm curious to know why she isn't in the complete monster trope of Tvtropes with all the shit she does tho.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 12, 2010)

Typical Azula 

She couldn't exactly fit in, why not destroy the house?


----------



## Burke (Aug 12, 2010)

Yo Jove, your sharper than the hulls of a fire navy fleet


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

I just started watching Avatar and I FUCKING LOVE IT! 

pek pek pek

On the final book and I'm not sure which my favorite moment is


----------



## Nimander (Aug 12, 2010)

I need to rewatch Book 3.  Beyond the finale, I don't remember too many specifics and only really the moments that stick out.  

But Zuko redirecting the lightning and basically instapwning his dad is high on my list.


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

^

Oi not to be rude but could you plz spoil tag some of that shit?


----------



## Gunners (Aug 12, 2010)

In theory he could have murdered his dad right there and then.

One thing that made me happy was the fact that they didn't half bake Ozai and Azula. I thought they'd see the light in the end to satisfy the soccer mums. Instead he tried burning down the entire Earth Kingdom.


----------



## Omolara (Aug 12, 2010)

Bender said:


> I just started watching Avatar and I FUCKING LOVE IT!
> 
> pek pek pek
> 
> On the final book and I'm not sure which my favorite moment is



What episode are you on now?


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

Omolara said:


> What episode are you on now?



2 episodes away from the finale now 

Been watching Avatar non-stop since yesterday


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 12, 2010)

@Bender:

Yesh, now you are on the dark side. :ho


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 12, 2010)

Gunners said:


> In theory he could have murdered his dad right there and then.
> 
> One thing that made me happy was the fact that they didn't half bake Ozai and Azula. I thought they'd see the light in the end to satisfy the soccer mums. Instead he tried burning down the entire Earth Kingdom.



The guy was basically going to create a mass genocide of the earth benders, rebuild the entire world in his image, and generally have a creepy god complex the entire time.

Avatar was pretty good at pushing 'kiddie' limits.


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

Finished 

One of the best cartoon series Nickelodeon's ever hosted on their channel. 

100%  _*GOOD*_


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 12, 2010)

(spoiler tags). 

Don't you mean...Roku 

Just kidding


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Nah, the real badass was:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...






The real Bad-ass is





Out of all the characters in the show Toph is my the best pek pek


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 12, 2010)

Gunners said:


> In theory he could have murdered his dad right there and then.
> 
> One thing that made me happy was the fact that they didn't half bake Ozai and Azula. I thought they'd see the light in the end to satisfy the soccer mums. Instead he tried burning down the entire Earth Kingdom.


What do you mean theory? <__< I don't think that's the right word you wanna use...

I assume he didn't kill Ozai because he want to know where his mom is.


----------



## The World (Aug 12, 2010)

My favorite badasses are

Avatar Roku and Iroh the _DRAGON OF THE WEST!_

Also Toph.


----------



## Semiotic Sacrilege (Aug 12, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Would it be a stretch to get ya to say _the_ best show ever?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's my second favorite behind the first half of Death Note. 

I know it's cliche but Zuko was definitely the most badass to me.

I warn you... the image you are about to see is almost too badass for anyone person to handle... You've been warned.


*Spoiler*: __ 










But seriously, I loved his whole character... You almost never see such amazing character progression in any series, and it doesn't hurt that he's voiced by Rufio.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 12, 2010)

He's also AMERICAN DRAGON JAKE LONG


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 13, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I assume he didn't kill Ozai because he want to know where his mom is.



He didn't kill Ozai for the same reason Iroh refused to fight Ozai. It wouldn't have been the right way to end the war. It would have just been seen as a son killing his father to gain power. Even if it meant a successful invasion, it would have probably left everyone suspicious of Zuko's motivations. 

Pretty convenient time to turn "good", Just in time to claim you were trying to help the AVatar and the invasion force. What a nice little bonus that you get to grab the title of Fire Lord for yourself. 

At least that's how the rest of the world would see it. Zuko just being opportunistic and corrupt. Exactly what the world has come to expect from the Fire Nation. 

All in all. It was actually pretty important to the whole balance of the world, not just philosophically or symbolically, but politically, that Aang be the one that defeated the Fire Lord.


----------



## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

That and Ozai would have destroyed him.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 13, 2010)

Well, Zuko could have done it pretty easily with that redirected lightning blast. He just chose not to.


----------



## Burke (Aug 13, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> He's also AMERICAN DRAGON JAKE LONG



U wanna die?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 13, 2010)

Yeah guys, your top two badasses right here, in the same picture, and this is _not_ debatable:


----------



## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Well, Zuko could have done it pretty easily with that redirected lightning blast. He just chose not to.


What? He blasted Ozai with it. Still doesn't mean Ozai is down for the count.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6sTSFcmnzo&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Burke (Aug 13, 2010)

Jove said:


> Yeah guys, your top two badasses right here, in the same picture, and this is _not_ debatable:




*I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT!*

(What im trying to say Jove is that if sokka had the beard, then your statement would be true. Until then...)


----------



## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> *I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT!*
> 
> (What im trying to say Jove is that if sokka had the beard, then your statement would be true. Until then...)





Flameo Nøøps Flameooooo.


----------



## Burke (Aug 13, 2010)

Did... did i do something wrong? 
What is an Hotlink?
Is like Hotcakes?


----------



## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

Btw your both wrong. Biggest badass right hur.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 13, 2010)

The World said:


> What? He blasted Ozai with it. Still doesn't mean Ozai is down for the count.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6sTSFcmnzo&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]



He blasted the ground in front of Ozai, which threw him back. If he'd hit Ozai, he'd be dead.


----------



## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

Aang didn't die. 

It also looked like he can barely control the direction with all that energy.
I'm pretty sure he hit the ground because he couldn't aim it properly.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 13, 2010)

Well, speaking as a person who got shocked once, you're kinda "paralyzed" after you get hit with a good jolt


----------



## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

These guys can take it. They are blatantly superhuman. 

Look at 2:02 only a superhuman can do that, and only a father of one superhuman can surely be superhumanerrr. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBi58UGGS-I[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 13, 2010)

The World said:


> Aang didn't die.
> 
> It also looked like he can barely control the direction with all that energy.
> I'm pretty sure he hit the ground because he couldn't aim it properly.



Give the guy a break lol it was his first time directing lightning, and it was from the most powerful firebender.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 13, 2010)

Anyone have a link that parody gif of Aang doing exaggerated Earthbending only to have it slowly cross the screen as he's finished?


----------



## Irishwonder (Aug 13, 2010)




----------



## The World (Aug 13, 2010)

Ugh that stain should be wiped from the world and replaced with how Aang should be doing Earthbending! WITH MANLINESS!


----------



## Oreole (Aug 13, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Yeah, he certainly seems to be full of himself.
> 
> I would like to know if there are any interviews of him after it was released.


 
Heres  one more closer. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZF9taBciRA&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

Link removed


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 13, 2010)

Irishwonder said:


>



Oh snap, that's funny 

Poor Earthbenders, I think they were screwed over the most in the movie....


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok42tQSxDjU&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Toph is the greatest pek pek pek


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 13, 2010)

It's well established that Hawky stands alone at the top of the Avatar scale.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 13, 2010)

Whatchuu talkin' 'bout, foo'?

Flopsie FTW.


----------



## Kno7 (Aug 13, 2010)

Wth? _Momo_ is at the top.


			
				Aang said:
			
		

> Lord Momo of the Momo Dynasty, your Momoness



100% Prooooved.


----------



## SpeKtoR (Aug 13, 2010)

Avatar deserves its own section!
I wounder what the Movie will be like, it comes to my country in 7 days... reviews say its terrible but i got to see for myself..


----------



## Burke (Aug 13, 2010)

I see that Terra is attempting to surpass my posts!
Well Terra, ill say that ur female posts are only half


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 13, 2010)

Kno7 said:


> Wth? _Momo_ is at the top.
> 
> 
> 100% Prooooved.



That's damning testimony: canon even.  

Momo fo sho.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 13, 2010)

Bender said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok42tQSxDjU&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Toph is the greatest pek pek pek



I know, right? pek pek pek


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 13, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> He blasted the ground in front of Ozai, which threw him back. If he'd hit Ozai, he'd be dead.



At this part, I was really hoping to see a redo of their Agni Kai, would have been awesome.


----------



## Burke (Aug 13, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> 777 ftw...



What r u jesus? :amazed


----------



## Omolara (Aug 14, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> At this part, I was really hoping to see a redo of their Agni Kai, would have been awesome.



Nah. Ozai would never have fought honorably anyway, and having Zuko prevail (or at least escape afterward) to show that he was the more honorable of the two would have been completely unrealistic. 
Besides, it would have cheapened Zuko's exit speech if he'd stayed and fought him. His walking away showed that he was far above Ozai and his influence, and that dealing with him was not worth his time. THAT is far more awesome than simply fighting him. That look on Ozai's face was from being owned with words and the loss of power over his son. 
There was no point in sticking around and fighting him when he'd already won. 

It was a perfect inversion of the power that Azula showed over Sokka at the same time.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 14, 2010)

Omolara said:


> Nah. Ozai would never have fought honorably anyway, and having Zuko prevail (or at least escape afterward) to show that he was the more honorable of the two would have been completely unrealistic.



Well, neither of them would have to have won, just a battle and then Zuko realized that its the Avatar's job to dethrone Ozai and then escapes, or runs. It still would have been awesome though, to see two firebenders fight to the almost death. 



> Besides, it would have cheapened Zuko's exit speech if he'd stayed and fought him. His walking away showed that he was far above Ozai and his influence, and that dealing with him was not worth his time. THAT is far more awesome than simply fighting him. That look on Ozai's face was from being owned with words and the loss of power over his son.
> There was no point in sticking around and fighting him when he'd already won.


Okay...that *is* far better 

Okay, maybe before that or something. Or after. In the manga....wait, I forgot for a moment Ozai lost his powers.


----------



## Shade (Aug 14, 2010)

With the amount of Avatar statues in the Air Temple, it seems like it's been a long long time that they've been active. And if the world's still relatively not developed, or inconsistently so, I wonder what the Avatarverse was like with the first Avatar, however many thousands of years ago it was.

Also, how do you guys check the post count per thread? *cue insecurity for being active here the longest and asking nub question*


----------



## Gunners (Aug 14, 2010)

Shade said:


> With the amount of Avatar statues in the Air Temple, it seems like it's been a long long time that they've been active. And if the world's still relatively not developed, or inconsistently so, I wonder what the Avatarverse was like with the first Avatar, however many thousands of years ago it was.
> 
> Also, how do you guys check the post count per thread? *cue insecurity for being here the longest and asking nub question*



Thread / Thread Starter  	Last Post    	*Replies*  	Views 

Just look at the number in the replies column and add one to it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 14, 2010)

Shade said:


> With the amount of Avatar statues in the Air Temple, it seems like it's been a long long time that they've been active. And if the world's still relatively not developed, or inconsistently so, I wonder what the Avatarverse was like with the first Avatar, however many thousands of years ago it was.



I was really hoping Mike and Bryan went with that concept...

One thing I wonder about is: has the world industrialized already at least once? The amount of Avatars before Aang, and the length of Avatar ages, suggest to me that it's conceivable that the world had industrialized and then crumbled. Roger ebert interpreted the current Avatar world as a post-acopalyptic world; the question is, how long after, if at all?

If not, the Avatar world took an awful long time to get around to industrial/steel production. Which then makes me wonder what kind of civilization level existed when the Avatar Spirit was created. The Avatar seems to be congruous with a level of civilization beyond hunter-gatherer... but that's a lot of lifetimes to go from that to what the Fire Nation was creating, much slower than our world.


----------



## Burke (Aug 14, 2010)

And then you have to wonder how old Omashu is. I mean you cant have the avatar without bending arts, and earthbending was founded by oma and shu, and by the looks of those flashbacks, the era that predated the avatar still looked relatively the same.

Then theres the age of the order fo the white lodus which predates the founding of the four nations which means there was a time when everyone of each bending art lived together in harmony.

I really wish they would flesh out avatars past


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 14, 2010)

Try and push for an Avatar encyclopedia reference book.
The Art book seems to be doing fairly well, being in it's third printing and all, so it'd be great to own a compendium of all the info that's out there and material that can be expanded upon.

Just an idea.


----------



## Burke (Aug 14, 2010)

I smell a non shipping related petition!


----------



## Noah (Aug 14, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I smell a non shipping related petition!



Bullshit! They don't exist!


----------



## Mider T (Aug 14, 2010)

Kind of glad I got banned at 777 posts in this thread, but it's good to be back.

So what's new?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 14, 2010)

N??ps said:


> And then you have to wonder how old Omashu is. I mean you cant have the avatar without bending arts, and earthbending was founded by oma and shu, and by the looks of those flashbacks, the era that predated the avatar still looked relatively the same.
> 
> Then theres the age of the order fo the white lodus which predates the founding of the four nations which means there was a time when everyone of each bending art lived together in harmony.
> 
> I really wish they would flesh out avatars past


That, and the chinese they wrote was TOTALly ancient.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 14, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Kind of glad I got banned at 777 posts in this thread, but it's good to be back.
> 
> So what's new?



Nothing really.

We were discussing early, who was better/who would win. Katara, or Sane Azula. And why Azula didn't easily break free of the ice case Katara put her in.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 15, 2010)

There was also a lengthy discussion regarding my genitals... but it got deleted for some reason. 

Shame you missed it.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 15, 2010)

The World said:


> Ugh that stain should be wiped from the world and replaced with how Aang should be doing Earthbending! WITH MANLINESS!



Aang Superman'ing his way through that rock is also one of my favorite moments in Book 3.  I remember when I saw that scene for the first time in the season preview after ComiCon IIR the time C: buckets and buckets, I tell you.



Omolara said:


> Nah. Ozai would never have fought honorably anyway, and having Zuko prevail (or at least escape afterward) to show that he was the more honorable of the two would have been completely unrealistic.
> Besides, it would have cheapened Zuko's exit speech if he'd stayed and fought him. His walking away showed that he was far above Ozai and his influence, and that dealing with him was not worth his time. THAT is far more awesome than simply fighting him. That look on Ozai's face was from being owned with words and the loss of power over his son.
> There was no point in sticking around and fighting him when he'd already won.
> 
> It was a perfect inversion of the power that Azula showed over Sokka at the same time.



This.  In addition to the other points about how it would've been seen as corrupt if Zuko had killed him right then and there.  But from where I stand, Zuko had Ozai dead to rights with that redirected bolt.  Had it hit him instead of the ground in front of him...?  Kentucky Fried Firelord.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 15, 2010)

I don't know why but that was one of the coolest fight scenes in the whole series.  Maybe because it was so unexpected, at night, with a large battlefield.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 15, 2010)

That was one of the best fights in the season, and probably in the entire show.  Sparky Sparky Boom Man was one of those characters whose potential was just shitted on.

I don't know; to me, the last half of Book 3 was less action-filled (and less-engaging to an extent) than the first half was.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 15, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That, and the chinese they wrote was TOTALly ancient.



So Rekky, could you elaborate upon this? I'm interested in some of the intricacies of this part of the series.


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 15, 2010)

Azula was one of my favorite characters in the show. I am also of the opinion that she would have beaten either Zuko or Katara in a one-on-one match had she not gone insane, though not both of them together.

I really wish there was more clarity on her at the end.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 15, 2010)

I think my favourite character was Zuko. With regards to Azula at the end not much could be said at the end. When Ty-Lee and Mei betrayed her, her world collapsed along with her sanity, I think she gained stability through believing she could control everything with fear, when that was shattered, she lost comfort and felt vulnerable. She probably ended up in a mental institution. 

With regards to her fighting Zuko, I think in a straight up duel Zuko would win as she would have to fight him the same was as she did insane. In an actual fight I think she'd be able to use her smarts to edge a win, like using individuals as bait ( Like she did Katara) would be considered natural.

One thing I liked about Avatar was the fact that skill and concentration was an important factor in fights. I liked the way Aang beat Zhao without launching an attack, also Zuko beating Zhao by upsetting his balance.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 15, 2010)

Gunners said:


> One thing I liked about Avatar was the fact that skill and concentration was an important factor in fights. I liked the way Aang beat Zhao without launching an attack, also Zuko beating Zhao by upsetting his balance.



Exactly. Without balderdash power levels, the fights were more captivating and served the narrative far better than a "Character x gains new power" plot point.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I don't know why but that was one of the coolest fight scenes in the whole series.  Maybe because it was so unexpected, at night, with a large battlefield.



Hehehe, I thought it was Aang's impressive earthbending 

My favorite part in the episode, is when they wake up and Toph skids to a stop and then causes a avalanche like move against Combustion man and then Aang grabs her and then goes out to distract him. Ah gosh, it was so awesome mygoshfangirlscream

So cool.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 15, 2010)

When it comes to somebody saving Toph, I always thought it was pretty awesome how Jet caught her mid-air with his hookswords and she flipped to a stand when they were fighting the Dai Li in the crystal catacombs.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> When it comes to somebody saving Toph, I always thought it was pretty awesome how Jet caught her mid-air with his hookswords and she flipped to a stand when they were fighting the Dai Li in the crystal catacombs.



...What? I...I don't remember this! Episode, or episode name? I gotta watch


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 15, 2010)

Jove said:


> So Rekky, could you elaborate upon this? I'm interested in some of the intricacies of this part of the series.


Well, the world of Avatar uses "Traditional" chinese, and possibly cleric chinese as well. Traditional is the "modern" way of writing chinese today. The cave of Omashu seems to have been using bronze script, or niao-chong-shu, literally "birds and worms writing". These are first introduced in the late 700 to late 400 BC, until the Qin dynasty, yet were still sparingly used during the han and even tang dynasty.


----------



## MCTDread (Aug 15, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> ...What? I...I don't remember this! Episode, or episode name? I gotta watch





I believe the episode is Lake Laogai. Season 2.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 15, 2010)

Admiral Bly32 said:


> I believe the episode is Lake Laogai. Season 2.



Ah, thank you!

I'm gonna go and watch. And then report back my love of the episode.


----------



## Raiden (Aug 15, 2010)

Wish I could go vacation at Ember Island .

I miss this series a lot.


----------



## Burke (Aug 15, 2010)

Speaking of Avatar, i just saw Scott Pilgrim


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 15, 2010)

Dang, I can't find a place to watch the episode without horrible amounts of popups. I'll try Anime-Media!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 15, 2010)

It's funny how normal animals are mythical in Avatar.


----------



## Batman (Aug 15, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Dang, I can't find a place to watch the episode without horrible amounts of popups. I'll try Anime-Media!



Gotta get that Netflix. They're all on watch instantly.

I love my netflix watch instantly. 


I've been watching this series again and it's so much fun. I can't wait for the next go around that follows that girl Korra (i think).


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 15, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Speaking of Avatar, i just saw Scott Pilgrim



What does that have to do with Scott Pilgrim?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 16, 2010)

Kataras voice actress (Mae Whitman) play's one of the evil-ex's. Take a wild guess which one.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 16, 2010)

She was in an old LMN movie I saw, she really slimmed down.


----------



## Koi (Aug 16, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, the world of Avatar uses "Traditional" chinese, and possibly cleric chinese as well. Traditional is the "modern" way of writing chinese today. The cave of Omashu seems to have been using bronze script, or niao-chong-shu, literally "birds and worms writing". These are first introduced in the late 700 to late 400 BC, until the Qin dynasty, yet were still sparingly used during the han and even tang dynasty.


Wouldn't that make sense, though, seeing as the ~SECRET TUNNEL~ and such have probably been there for hundreds of years prior?  So it would be like walking into a really old church and seeing things written in Latin rather than whatever the modern vernacular is?


----------



## Nimander (Aug 16, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Hehehe, I thought it was Aang's impressive earthbending
> 
> My favorite part in the episode, is when they wake up and Toph skids to a stop and then causes a avalanche like move against Combustion man and then Aang grabs her and then goes out to distract him. Ah gosh, it was so awesome mygoshfangirlscream
> 
> So cool.



Yeeeeeeessssssssssss.



Fuck yeah, Toph.:33


----------



## Mider T (Aug 16, 2010)

Unconfirmed source says the casting and storyboarding for the first 3 episodes of Korra is done.


----------



## Irishwonder (Aug 16, 2010)

I hope we get to see Aang's funeral


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 16, 2010)

Andrea Romano did mention in an interview a week ago that she had just finished recording 3 episodes.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 16, 2010)

So much for 9 months an episode, even if they aren't full length


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 16, 2010)

Nimander said:


> Yeeeeeeessssssssssss.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck yeah, Toph.:33


Toph seriously came down with the case of the bewbies in book 3


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 16, 2010)

Mider T said:


> So much for 9 months an episode, even if they aren't full length



What do you mean? Those episodes are mostly likely in Korea being animated right now. They'll probably return at the end of Spring or so for music scoring, editing and ADR work.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 16, 2010)

So most of the length is due to the episode traveling from country to country.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 16, 2010)

I wish in-house animation would return...


----------



## Burke (Aug 16, 2010)

Whos this andrea person?


----------



## IsoloKiro (Aug 16, 2010)

She's the casting director for all great animated shows.


----------



## Sassy (Aug 16, 2010)

I have watched Avatar The Last Airbender ever since it aired.

There's just everything.

ANd more :ho


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 16, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I wish in-house animation would return...



How good are you at working with Flash?


----------



## The Potential (Aug 16, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> Azula was one of my favorite characters in the show. I am also of the opinion that she would have beaten either Zuko or Katara in a one-on-one match had she not gone insane, though not both of them together.
> 
> I really wish there was more clarity on her at the end.



I agree with you that Azula was one of the great things about Avatar. She most likely coulnd't have beaten Katara though. Refer to: The Crossroads of Destiny fight scene.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 16, 2010)

Nimander said:


> Yeeeeeeessssssssssss.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck yeah, Toph.:33



Toph is the awesomest, awesomest, koolest character ever 

Thanks for that, by the way


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 16, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> How good are you at working with Flash?


I picked up a trick or two, nothing fancy though, just frame work.


----------



## Burke (Aug 16, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I picked up a trick or two, nothing fancy though, just frame work.



I too have dabbled


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 16, 2010)

I got one gif on dA


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 16, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> I agree with you that Azula was one of the great things about Avatar. She most likely coulnd't have beaten Katara though. Refer to: The Crossroads of Destiny fight scene.



I disagree 

Katara won 'cause Azula was sick in the head, and remains to be seen as so. Well, if I remember right, she goes to a mental institute...but still, if Azula had been perfectly sane, the battle's outcome would have been in her favor.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 16, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I disagree
> 
> Katara won 'cause Azula was sick in the head, and remains to be seen as so. Well, if I remember right, she goes to a mental institute...but still, if Azula had been perfectly sane, the battle's outcome would have been in her favor.



No my friend you misunderstand. I'm talking about the battle at the end of Book Two not Book Three. Plus being powered by Sozin's comet gives her the advantage by far. Why do you think Katara had to use her brain not her brawn in that fight?

I'm not trying to take anything from Azula. I just saw Katara best her and im pointing it out.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> No my friend you misunderstand. I'm talking about the battle at the end of Book Two not Book Three. Plus being powered by Sozin's comet gives her the advantage by far. Why do you think Katara had to use her brain not her brawn in that fight?
> 
> I'm not trying to take anything from Azula. I just saw Katara best her and im pointing it out.



Ah, book 2.  sorry. lol

Still, Azula is still the best and far more superior to Katara. 

*is tired lol*


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 17, 2010)

IDK.  If Katara went "Southern Raiders" on Azula, she might have a real bad day.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> IDK.  If Katara went "Southern Raiders" on Azula, she might have a real bad day.



Azula is the best. She is a genius when it comes to battle. When sane, Katara would never be able to defeat her. She would need help from Zuko or Aang.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 17, 2010)

What good is all the talent in the world if you can't control your body?  Katara did a little bloodbending in that episode.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> What good is all the talent in the world if you can't control your body?  Katara did a little bloodbending in that episode.



Katara can't always Bloodbend, not that she would if she could.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 17, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Toph seriously came down with the case of the bewbies in book 3



Cover up, RD: your pedo side is showing.

But seriously, I'm not seeing it.  Maybe I do have to go back and watch the series again...



Terra Branford said:


> Toph is the awesomest, awesomest, koolest character ever
> 
> Thanks for that, by the way



Yes, Toph was hands down my favorite character in the entire series.  If M. Night fucks up her character in the movie sequel I will be among the first to put a hit on him.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 17, 2010)

Yes yes, I understand - but I qualified my response.  In any event, I think there's a bias towards Azula whereas she had received training (most likely the very best) since she was a child.  Katara...obviously not so much.  All things being equal, I very much believe all things would be equal.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 17, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Azula is the best. She is a genius when it comes to battle. When sane, Katara would never be able to defeat her. She would need help from Zuko or Aang.



Hey! Azula is great but she did get bested by Katara in a fare fight. We all saw it.

Remember, Zuko had to bail her out in that fight they had.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 17, 2010)

^ Great sig Stark.  That's one scene I really wish they would have shown (despite the fact that the guards face was extremely telling).


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Hey! Azula is great but she did get bested by Katara in a fare fight. We all saw it.
> 
> Remember, Zuko had to bail her out in that fight they had.



It wasn't really fair, considering Azula was out of her mind crazy.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 17, 2010)

Azula was nothing short of a prodigy, she was a real badass.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 17, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> It wasn't really fair, considering Azula was out of her mind crazy.



Not that fight. Either way someone had the advantage that fight: Katara because Azula was insane or Azula if she wasn't insane Sozin's comet.

The battle I'm speaking of is the last chapter of Book Two: The Crossroads of Destiny Part 2. In which Azula and Katara had a one on one. Katara bested her then Zuko came in and helped out his sister. They were also both sane in this fight with no power ups.




> ^ Great sig Stark. That's one scene I really wish they would have shown (despite the fact that the guards face was extremely telling).




Thank you! Man I wish they did to. I guess that scene was so GAR that if humans like ourselves saw it out minds would implode on themselves.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 17, 2010)

Agreed


----------



## The Potential (Aug 17, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Agreed



Iroh =


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 17, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Not that fight. Either way someone had the advantage that fight: Katara because Azula was insane or Azula if she wasn't insane Sozin's comet.
> 
> The battle I'm speaking of is the last chapter of Book Two: The Crossroads of Destiny Part 2. In which Azula and Katara had a one on one. Katara bested her then Zuko came in and helped out his sister. They were also both sane in this fight with no power ups.



There's no explanation for it, from an Azula fan-point. Katara clearly bested her, in a straight one-on-one scenario. If Zuko didn't save Azula, Katara would have damaged her badly. Zuko basically changed the fate of Ba Sing Se with that one move.


Now that I think about it, this is a fun argument that is totally pointless with the movie characters. Imagine arguing Movie!Katara v. Movie!Azula

*Argument*: Movie!Azula: probably pretty hardcore and as sadistic as the real Azula, but Katara's a Waterbender and would simply put out Azula's fire source due to M. Night's ridiculous bending philosophy.

*Counter-Argument*: Doesn't matter. Movie!Katara is worthless and can barely bend.


Argument over.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 17, 2010)

Jove said:


> There's no explanation for it, from an Azula fan-point. Katara clearly bested her, in a straight one-on-one scenario. If Zuko didn't save Azula, Katara would have damaged her badly. Zuko basically changed the fate of Ba Sing Se with that one move.
> 
> 
> Now that I think about it, this is a fun argument that is totally pointless with the movie characters. Imagine arguing Movie!Katara v. Movie!Azula
> ...



OMG! :rofl :rofl Thats so how that argument would go.

The reason I even argued though is because it was hard to except that my Avatar fandom had Naruto type fans that place X>>>>>>everyone.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 17, 2010)

Well, the beauty of Avatar is that just about anyone can beat just about anyone else on the right day.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 17, 2010)

Jove said:


> Well, the beauty of Avatar is that just about anyone can beat just about anyone else on the right day.



Thats exactly why I love Avatar. It makes me shed man tears.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 17, 2010)

Hawky vs. Ozai: Rumble in the Jungle


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 17, 2010)

Except Hawky. No one can defeat him.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 17, 2010)

Nimander said:


> Cover up, RD: your pedo side is showing.


*attacks your pressure points to make your eyeballs explode*


Jove said:


> Except Hawky. No one can defeat him.


That Raven Eagle never showed up after Hawky got attack. I assumed he made a turkey dinner out of that sucka fo' gettin' all up in his grille.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

> Yes, Toph was hands down my favorite character in the entire series. If M. Night fucks up her character in the movie sequel I will be among the first to put a hit on him.


....

You'd be second in line, first being me, of course.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 17, 2010)

Nimander said:


> Yes, Toph was hands down my favorite character in the entire series.  If M. Night fucks up her character in the movie sequel I will be among the first to put a hit on him.



I already have my sniper ready in his neihbors window. Awaiting the Inevitable.


----------



## Burke (Aug 17, 2010)

Nice set Terra.
So... now weve moved on into crack fights?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> Nice set Terra.
> So... now weve moved on into crack fights?



Thanks, Native American wolf with Keewatin Eskimo saying pek

I don't know, I thought we were discussing something different...


----------



## The World (Aug 17, 2010)

Mark Hamill's voice shatters Hawky into a million pieces.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

The World said:


> Mark Hamill's voice shatters Hawky into a million pieces.



(Nice set)

Didn't Mark stop his role as the Joker recently? 

If so, Hawky wins.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 17, 2010)

Sure he retired as The Joker but he'll always be Ozai.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Sure he retired as The Joker but he'll always be Ozai.



I only see him as retired Joker now. :<


----------



## The World (Aug 17, 2010)

He is Luke Joker and Ozai. I'm sorry but that's too much win for lil' Hawky's heart to handle. It asplodes.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 17, 2010)

The World said:


> He is Luke Joker and Ozai. I'm sorry but that's too much win for lil' Hawky's heart to handle. It asplodes.



I can't believe he played Ozai.

That is...so weird and awesome at the same time. pek


----------



## The Potential (Aug 18, 2010)

The World said:


> Mark Hamill's voice shatters Hawky into a million pieces.



Mark Hamill as in B:TAS, the guy who played the Joker?? He plays Ozai???


----------



## Mider T (Aug 18, 2010)

Yeah.  I dunno how his voice changed so much from Star Wars


----------



## Nimander (Aug 18, 2010)

He finally went over to the Dark Side.


----------



## Omolara (Aug 18, 2010)

My reaction upon hearing Ozai for the first time: "No f*cking way." 
It's like his voice was made for evil, and crazy laughter.


----------



## Burke (Aug 18, 2010)

I never knew it was mark hamill.
I heard he is reprising his role as the joker for upcoming games.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 18, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Yeah.  I dunno how his voice changed so much from Star Wars



He is a talented actor, can change his awesome voice. 

When I first heard (four days ago from my sister) I couldn't believe it. Didn't sound like him.... :/


----------



## The Potential (Aug 18, 2010)

The Joker is fliping Ozai! Thats awesome, he is a good voice actor. I never knew..


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 18, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> The Joker is fliping Ozai! Thats awesome, he is a good voice actor. I never knew..



Doesn't sound like him, huh?

And I was wondering why Ozai's voice was so freakin' awesome too.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 18, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Doesn't sound like him, huh?
> 
> And I was wondering why Ozai's voice was so freakin' awesome too.



Shit yeah! i was Flabergasted to find out Ozai is the Joker. It really blew my mind how i didn't notice at all. That in it self just shows how good a voice actor Mark Hamill is.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 18, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Shit yeah! i was Flabergasted to find out Ozai is the Joker. It really blew my mind how i didn't notice at all. That in it self just shows how good a voice actor Mark Hamill is.



Well, with Mark changing his voice so well, its easy to not know, I think.

I grew up with Star Wars constantly playing my home, toys, games, posters -- everything. And I didn't notice until recently either.

No wonder Ozai had a badass voice.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 18, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Well, with Mark changing his voice so well, its easy to not know, I think.
> 
> I grew up with Star Wars constantly playing my home, toys, games, posters -- everything. And I didn't notice until recently either.
> 
> No wonder Ozai had a badass voice.



Seriously! He officialy got more badass once I found out this information.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 18, 2010)

But Fore Lord Sozin was Ron Perlman.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> But Fore Lord Sozin was Ron Perlman.



Slade? As in the Teen Titians guy? 

I didn't know he played him.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 18, 2010)

Ron Perlman's done a _lot_ more than that.


----------



## Burke (Aug 18, 2010)

Hm, i guss i can hear that as well too.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> Ron Perlman's done a _lot_ more than that.



Yea, but I only knew him from that and the motorcycle show


----------



## The Potential (Aug 18, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Slade? As in the Teen Titians guy?
> 
> I didn't know he played him.



Holy crap!! Sozin is Slade. I can hear it now!


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> Ron Perlman's done a _lot_ more than that.



Somehow, in some way, Ron Perlman is in _everything_.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 18, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Somehow, in some way, Ron Perlman is in _everything_.



Surprisingly, a lot of movies I've watched have him in it. Its so weird how I notice those sort of things after having someone play in one of my favorite shows.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 19, 2010)

By the way, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet but Kisu's confirmed on his facebook page that he is definitely working on Korra.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 19, 2010)

The Avatar world wouldn't be the same without Sifu Kisu.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 19, 2010)

I also just checked Box Office Mojo...

TLA has grossed $200 million total, including worldwide. How the fuck is this even possible?


----------



## Burke (Aug 19, 2010)

Scott pilgrim made only 10 mil on opening weekend 
Its like the best movie ive seen this year!
Damned expendables.



Jove said:


> I also just checked Box Office Mojo...
> 
> TLA has grossed $200 million total, including worldwide. How the fuck is this even possible?



This means that TLA is in the top 500 highest grossing movies ever. There was a list that ... lists all movies that gross higher than 200 million.
There are about 460 something


----------



## Mider T (Aug 19, 2010)

Americans make the best movies so have the best standards, when you open in places like Latvia they think American shit is a feast on a platter.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 19, 2010)

Jove said:


> I also just checked Box Office Mojo...
> 
> TLA has grossed $200 million total, including worldwide. How the fuck is this even possible?



It really comes down to the fact that they were really smart about when to get it in theaters. A bit over half of it's total domestic gross was made on the opening weekend... 4th of July weekend. A lot of people had family in town, when that happens, whole families usually end up seeing movies together. Which usually means you'll end up at a "family" movie. Toy Story had already been out for two weeks, anyone with little kids had most likely already seen it. 

So then, what are your other alternatives... Twilight? Yeah, unless you're a teenage girl, most people (especially ones with little kids) aren't going to a movie about a girl and her quest to fuck her way through the AD&D Monsters compendium (3rd edition). That pretty much left Airbender as the only alternative for most families on the 4th of July weekend. 

Say what you want about Paramount, they know when to schedule a release.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 19, 2010)

Jove said:


> I also just checked Box Office Mojo...
> 
> TLA has grossed $200 million total, including worldwide. How the fuck is this even possible?



Because...it was actually good and haters gonna hate? 

@Noops:
Whenever you speak of Scott Pilgrim, I sigh and then cry.

I really wanted to see that movie, like really, really bad.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 19, 2010)

Jove said:


> I also just checked Box Office Mojo...
> 
> TLA has grossed $200 million total, including worldwide. How the fuck is this even possible?



This makes me very sad.

But, generally speaking, when it come to the general population, the actual quality of the movie is pretty far down the list when trying to get people to see a movie.  Paramount, like Stab said, knows when and how to release a movie. Hype, viral marketing, clever commercial editing and the general blockbuster feel probably outweighed the fact that it was terrible.

Avatar had:

plenty of regular sponsoring (toys, happy meals, etc)
XBOX HUEG, grandoise adverts and commercials
an established and loyal fanbase
one of the best release weekends they could imagine
someone who knew when to release the movie so it coincided with a large family holiday and little comparative competition


----------



## Nimander (Aug 20, 2010)

Jove said:


> Ron Perlman's done a _lot_ more than that.








Jove said:


> By the way, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet but Kisu's confirmed on his facebook page that he is definitely working on Korra.







Jove said:


> I also just checked Box Office Mojo...
> 
> TLA has grossed $200 million total, including worldwide. How the fuck is this even possible?


----------



## Noah (Aug 20, 2010)

So....speaking of Scott Pilgrim.

Who else kept waiting for Roxy to waterbend during her fight(despite already having read the comic)? On the other hand, now I keep Katara as a BiFURIOUS!! emo ninja.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

I wonder if, by the end of this year, M.Night will consider making another movie and actually trying harder and not taking anything from anyone to cut his movie down. 

 what I said lol


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 20, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Because...it was actually good and haters gonna hate?
> 
> @Noops:
> Whenever you speak of Scott Pilgrim, I sigh and then cry.
> ...


Even though they changed a LOT, it was an AWESOME movie, proves that you  can do a proper adaptation only if you keep to the spirit of the source material, and deviate only in the right ways.

On a aside, Micheal Cera's destiny was to play Scott Pilgrim, the universe demanded it.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 20, 2010)

It had to be reemphasized, Terra.

And I am honestly surprised the movie grossed $200 million.  I enjoyed it for the most part, but I didn't know there was that much turnout worldwide.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 20, 2010)

Noah said:


> So....speaking of Scott Pilgrim.
> 
> Who else kept waiting for Roxy to waterbend during her fight(despite already having read the comic)? On the other hand, now I keep Katara as a BiFURIOUS!! emo ninja.



For me, the most surreal part of the film.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 20, 2010)

Noah said:


> So....speaking of Scott Pilgrim.
> 
> Who else kept waiting for Roxy to waterbend during her fight(despite already having read the comic)? On the other hand, now I keep Katara as a BiFURIOUS!! emo ninja.



I remember watching Mae Whitman as a little girl on Fox Family back in the early 00's so I don't really associate her with any one role. Although in an earlier role she had on an FX drama series her character does say the "N" word if you want to be surprised even more I guess. Can't imagine Katara saying that eh? Also, not picking up any Emo vibe from her character.


----------



## Burke (Aug 20, 2010)

She scared and scarred me in that movie :<
and i liked it.
See you sunday


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

Nimander said:


> It had to be reemphasized, Terra.
> 
> And I am honestly surprised the movie grossed $200 million.  I enjoyed it for the most part, but I didn't know there was that much turnout worldwide.


Ah, I see 

Well, I for one hope a second comes out but this one tries to stay true to the story line and show. I don't think I'd enjoy a different Toph. :/


----------



## Burke (Aug 20, 2010)

Oh, im kind of on the fence about that matter.
I think mabye yes because toph will be asian.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Oh, im kind of on the fence about that matter.
> I think mabye yes because toph will be asian.



Toph better be Asian if a second comes out. Or my anger will come down on M.night like a thousands hammers of Zeus' rage.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 20, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Toph better be Asian if a second comes out. Or my anger will come down on M.night like a thousands hammers of Zeus' rage.


Uh, Thor is the one with the hammer...


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Uh, Thor is the one with the hammer...



Um, I don't care.

It is Zues that has the rage I want. 



> Toph better be Asian if a second comes out. Or my anger will come down on M.night like a thousands hammers of Zeus' rage.



I will come down on him like hammers *in*_ Zeus' rage_.

Seriously, if you are going to start something, at least do it right :/


----------



## RAGING BONER (Aug 20, 2010)

lol M. Night do a book 2?


Well, he better get started early on that whole "Toph grounding" thing...


----------



## The Potential (Aug 20, 2010)

........ You guys don't actually think he will do Toph justice do you? He wont.. Did you see TLA????


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> lol M. Night do a book 2?
> 
> 
> Well, he better get started early on that whole "Toph grounding" thing...



Yea, its been confirmed already. So....I guess we wait since the movie is doing well ^,^



> ........ You guys don't actually think he will do Toph justice do you? He wont.. Did you see TLA????


----------



## Noah (Aug 20, 2010)

Wait. You liked that......thing?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 20, 2010)

Haters gonna hate:  the worst meme ever.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 20, 2010)

Noah said:


> Wait. You liked that......thing?



Same thing I said.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

@Noah: I made that very clear I thought, when the movie came out and when everyone was dissin'. 


@Dr:
Cool 

@Stark:
Haters gonna hate. 



Seriously, why does it matter if I liked it? I liked it, it doesn't hurt you any.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 20, 2010)

Nah, that's not what bothers me.

I just fucking hate "haters gonna hate."


----------



## Noah (Aug 20, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Haters gonna hate:  the worst meme ever.



Only when it's used in the wrong context(this would be one of the wrong ones). Or if it's anything aside from that pic of the eagle on water.




Terra Branford said:


> @Noah: I made that very clear I thought, when the movie came out and when everyone was dissin'.
> 
> 
> Seriously, why does it matter if I liked it? I liked it, it doesn't hurt you any.



It's not so much that you liked it (although that's still a problem). It's HOW you liked it.

Seriously. How? It's atrocious. In the case of TLA, seeking the sweet release of suicide is actually a viable option. Seriously. It's the only time suicide wouldn't be considered a mortal sin. If there is a hell, then it is filled with that movie and Twilight, playing side-by-side simultaneously in an infinite loop.

And that's before I put into account that it raped the heart and soul of the series and shat on it's chest afterwards.

So. Again. HOW?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Nah, that's not what bothers me.
> 
> I just fucking hate "haters gonna hate."



I know. I just meant "cool". When it is overused, it is stupid. But when there is a perfect time for it, it is so needed


----------



## The Potential (Aug 20, 2010)

No, it actually hurts me a little inside.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 20, 2010)

Oh yeah, finally started Book 2 today.

Watched 2 episodes, and getting ready for Toph's intro.  Aww yeah.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> No, it actually hurts me a little inside.



As I said: Haters gonna hate.

It is obviously good for it to sell so well. People expected WAY too much out of it, they thought he would be able to recreate a special series (Like the LoTR books) and that it would be better than anything else. You expected too much and was disappointed and now you hate because it was exactly how you wanted it to be, which hundreds of millions of others wanted their own take on it.

It was impossible to please everyone, and most of those hater reviews, were Twilight people :/



> Watched 2 episodes, and getting ready for Toph's intro. Aww yeah.


Oh my gosh!

You are going to love it so much pek

Toph is da boss.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 20, 2010)

I actually thought it was going to be alright....


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> I actually thought it was going to be alright....



You expected it to be something of great value, and I think I said it before the movie, I said it was going to be "average". :>


----------



## The Potential (Aug 20, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> You expected it to be something of great value, and I think I said it before the movie, I said it was going to be "average". :>



No, I didn't expect it to of great value and I also didn't hate it as much as I put off. I liked Iroh.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> No, I didn't expect it to of great value and I also didn't hate it as much as I put off. I liked Iroh.



Oh my gosh? Really? I loved Iroh! I felt he could have been a lot more peaceful and tea-loving, even fatter, but eh.


----------



## The Potential (Aug 20, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Oh my gosh? Really? I loved Iroh! I felt he could have been a lot more peaceful and tea-loving, even fatter, but eh.



Yeah, I just like to bash on it cause it wasn't what I expected but i didn't hate it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 20, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Um, I don't care.
> 
> It is Zues that has the rage I want.
> 
> ...


Hey, fuck you, it was just a joke, I'm not trying to start anything, you snippy cunt.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 20, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Yeah, I just like to bash on it cause it wasn't what I expected but i didn't hate it.



Really? You jerkin' my chain? 

Because if not, that's how it is with a lot of things.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Hey, fuck you, it was just a joke, I'm not trying to start anything, you snippy cunt.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 20, 2010)

Okay, now you're genuinely acting like a troll, who's starting what now?


----------



## The Potential (Aug 20, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Really? You jerkin' my chain?
> 
> Because if not, that's how it is with a lot of things.



Nope i'm not "Jerking your chain".


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 21, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Nope i'm not "Jerking your chain".



Ah, okay. I have had experience with people jerkin' my chain before, so....yea lol


----------



## Noah (Aug 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Hey, fuck you, it was just a joke, I'm not trying to start anything, you snippy cunt.






> Okay, now you're genuinely acting like a troll, who's starting what now?



...really? REALLY?

Unless my sarcasm meter is waaaaaaay off, your escalation judgement needs work. Completely uncalled for.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 21, 2010)

Noah said:


> ...really? REALLY?
> 
> Unless my sarcasm meter is waaaaaaay off, your escalation judgement needs work. Completely uncalled for.



I think she was talking to me about that. :/

Unless you already knew that.


----------



## Nimander (Aug 21, 2010)

at this whole page.

Anyway, I'm tired of personally explaining my reasons for liking the movie.  I liked it.  You didn't.  Let's just leave it at that.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 21, 2010)

Nimander said:


> at this whole page.
> 
> Anyway, I'm tired of personally explaining my reasons for liking the movie.  I liked it.  You didn't.  Let's just leave it at that.



May I ask why you liked it? Personally, I enjoyed it very much for a lot of reasons, mostly for how good of an actor Noah was for his first movie.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 21, 2010)

What vibes does Reikai give off to make you call him a she?


----------



## Nimander (Aug 21, 2010)

Well, I loved seeing some of the elements from the film come to life.  For example, I loved that one scene where Aang is escaping from the ship and he suddenly flies with his glider.  I don't know if it's just cause I've always wanted to fly like that myself, or if it was just the sheer wonder of it, but that scene kinda took my breath away.  

I did like, for the most part, the changes they made to Aang's character.  Despite him being the main character in the series, I can't ever truly say he was one of my favorites.  The "seriousness" added to his character, I think, has potential for growth in a slightly different direction than we saw in the film, which I have no problem with personally.  I don't know that I'd enjoy the movies if they were "verbatim" copies of the source material.  Adaptation can be good.

I personally loved a lot of the fights they gave Aang, and they were among my favorite parts of the movie.  The fact that the special effects were AWESOME didn't hurt either.  

But what I think made me like the movie the most was the ending.  When the dragon told Aang to let his emotions go through his bending and grieve.  The same way water dams and build up if held back, emotions do as well.  Which was why Aang's waterbending, which was highly in tune with his emotions, was so erratic throughout the movie.  But it was only when he let go of his emotions and let them flow naturally that he was able to master the form.  And the fact that it was Tai'chi chosen to do this, the form that emphasizes redirection of flows, that made it all the more symbolic.  


*Spoiler*: _Mini Theory_ 




The direction I think M. Night is gonna take with the adaptation to Aang's character is that Aang's innate connection to the Spirit World and the real world is going to be affected directly by his emotions.  Each of the Books is going to have an emotional challenge for Aang to overcome, and he must master not only the forms, but himself through the process.  Otherwise, the world itself will suffer because of his emotions.  

Look at all the power he wielded at the end of the movie.  Imagine if he'd been Earthbending in the Avatar State, or Firebending with enormous amounts of rage inside him.  He himself could easily become as much of a threat to the world as Ozai is if he doesn't learn to use master himself completely.  

To me, it'd be a more mature storyline for him with a lot of potential for a more satisfying ending to the story.  Others will disagree with me, but that's my theory and opinion of things.




Anyway, I'll admit there were some parts of the movie that were just downright cheesy, and some that were just downright shitty.  But for me, the good outweighed the bad and I enjoyed it overall.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 21, 2010)

Mider T said:


> What vibes does Reikai give off to make you call him a she?



Oh, she is a he?

Oh....well, how emotional she he is and....his sig image


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 21, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Oh, she is a he?
> 
> Oh....well, how emotional she he is and....his sig image


That doesn't make sense.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That doesn't make sense.



What doesn't make sense?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> What doesn't make sense?





> *how emotional she he is and....his sig image*


That strikeout is also unnecessarily instigating


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That strikeout is also unnecessarily instigating



I was waiting for a confirmation of your gender. The other member could have been wrong and encase he was, I struck out the "she" and encase he wasn't right, I kept it. :>


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 22, 2010)

Still doesn't make sense, how is emotional relevant at all to my pic


----------



## Noah (Aug 22, 2010)

Emotion and your sig have no relation. 

You look very ladylike in your sig.

You snap at Terra for no real reason and have emotional outbursts when people say something you don't like and/or find mildly offensive.

Ergo, gender confusion. Not that hard to figure out, really


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 22, 2010)

Reading these tweets from British people about the film has certainly made me understand more why Avatar's subtitle was The Legend Of Aang in the 4 years since I started watching.



> Glinner
> Have just been informed that 'The Last Airbender' contains the line "From the day you were born, I knew you were a bender."



Futurama must be 50x funnier across the pond.


----------



## arcanecapricorn (Aug 22, 2010)

has there been any new updates on the legend of korra series yet,  a trailer anything??????????


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 22, 2010)

Noah said:


> Emotion and your sig have no relation.
> 
> You look very ladylike in your sig.
> 
> ...


It's just the last damn straw  She's always assuming I'm trying to start something.

And as I recall, emotion isn't a gender specific thing


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 22, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Nimander said:


> Well, I loved seeing some of the elements from the film come to life.  For example, I loved that one scene where Aang is escaping from the ship and he suddenly flies with his glider.  I don't know if it's just cause I've always wanted to fly like that myself, or if it was just the sheer wonder of it, but that scene kinda took my breath away.
> 
> I did like, for the most part, the changes they made to Aang's character.  Despite him being the main character in the series, I can't ever truly say he was one of my favorites.  The "seriousness" added to his character, I think, has potential for growth in a slightly different direction than we saw in the film, which I have no problem with personally.  I don't know that I'd enjoy the movies if they were "verbatim" copies of the source material.  Adaptation can be good.
> 
> ...







Sorry for the late reply. I didn't want to get back at you when I was tired. I wanted my post to be full and alive 

I think that scene had to be among my favorites. It was so close to the show's scene, that I immiedatly loved it. It awed the people in the thearter room, I know that 'cause they wouldn't be silent after (lol). 

I liked the part when he glanced back at Zuko and then jumped over the edge and then you could see him ahead of the ship on his glider. Made me think I was watching the show again.

Hm, I think the same. I liked that Aang had a growth of seriousness added to him, but at the same time, he rally needed his kid side back. This is a twelve year old boy who was taken up for an adult's job afterall. I was hoping to see him very serious in the movie, but with some kiddish elements. Like "Wanna go Peguin sleding with me?" I admit, that would have been awkward to see in the movie, but something to that degree would have been nice.

Aang wasn't my favorite in the show either. But I did enjoy his humor and his goofiness but when a serious situation came up, it didn't seem a bit odd to see him get all serious and Avatar-y. Well, it just would have made his character feel more "open" in the movie if he had something that was "Aang".

Yea, the fight scenes were so awesome! The effects really pulled it together! I have to say, my favorite fight scene was at the end, between Zuko and Aang. I just loved how they applies Aang's gentle battle side. Second fav, would have to be when the Blue Spirit came to resque Aang and they were helping each other.

Wow, I thought I was going crazy or something. When I mentioned why I thought he was having a hard time waterbending to my sisters (they were upset 'cause Aang was supposed to be better at it at Katara when they were practicing in the show) they immiedatly dismissed the idea 'cause Aang was supposed to grasp it faster and better than she. I told them it was because of his emotions and like how true "bending" would be in real life, he would have to let his emotions go, like Patik (Is that how you spell it?) trained Aang in the show. Glad I'm not the only one who thought/thinks this. :>


*Spoiler*: _reply to your spoiler_ 



Actually, I would love to see those elements applied to the movies. I always thought he would need a lot more emotinal training as well as Avatar training. We are talking about a little boy who is now holding the world on his shoulders. I would love to see Aang overcoming an emotinal battle, it was pretty nice in the show when Appa went missing. That episode showed how if he let his anger go unshowed, he took it out on people. He even went Avatar on the Sand Benders.

Personally, I enjoyed Aang's mature side in the movie, it made him seem more human, more kid like. I still hope to see some of his goofiness though, so hopfully when the second movie comes out, he'll have some moments.




I think the worst part for me....was the Earth Bender scene. I just was so upset that he did that. They were surrounded by rock (which they had to be told by Aang?), and it took four men to throw a tiny rock. I also didn't like how much stances it took for the bending forms to bend water. It was like five-ten minutes for each bending scene. 

Also, knowing that so many scenes were cut out made me angry. I really wanted to see the scene with Aang in the temple and he blew out all the candles. That looked so freakin' awesome and I didn't even get to see it. And then another scene with him training on pinnicles of rock. *sigh*

When it comes out on DVD, I am going to buy it. Because I really enjoyed it.



> has there been any new updates on the legend of korra series yet, a trailer anything??????????


No trailers yet, or anything. I think we'll see trailers or tease vids in late October maybe. 




Noah said:


> Emotion and your sig have no relation.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Thank you, Noah. I wasn't sure how to explain that. 

Actually Reikai, you've been pretty upset and always starting things with me. It wasn't me, it was you. Alas though, I did continue the fiascos...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 22, 2010)

Well, that would work better if you weren't so predisposed to thinking I have nothing to do than starting something with you  It's just getting demeaning now.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, that would work better if you weren't so predisposed to thinking I have nothing to do than starting something with you  It's just getting demeaning now.



Oh come one, Reikai, you can't be this...well, you know.

Others, I'm sure of it, have noticed you jumping at the chance for a fight with me. You do it ALL the time. You just did with "Thor's hammer". You could claim it was a joke (what's to laugh about that? You were trying to correct me to start something) but we all know it wasn't, just like all the childish fights you started with me prior to this moment. 

Sure, and _I'm_ the one demeaning myself. *sigh*

But I did and always will, hope and ask for a end. I even asked for it a few times and denied. I'll continue to hope to see that end, but I doubt it'll see light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Oh come one, Reikai, you can't be this...well, you know.
> 
> Others, I'm sure of it, have noticed you jumping at the chance for a fight with me. You do it ALL the time. You just did with "Thor's hammer". You could claim it was a joke (what's to laugh about that? You were trying to correct me to start something) but we all know it wasn't, just like all the childish fights you started with me prior to this moment.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I'm talking about, stop getting hung up on your self, you seriously thought I was trying to start a fight over some stupid throw away comment? You're full of yourself.

And now this holier than thou act is just rubbing salt into the wound. Seriously, I was never trying to start anything with that fucking Zeus thing.

My prior history with you shouldn't be a justification for how you should color all your future interactions with me, and seriously, it's as much your fault as it is mine, just don't fucking say anything if you feel like it might lead to some stupid tirade, god dammit.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 22, 2010)

Zuko's cool.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 22, 2010)

Jove said:


> Zuko's cool.


You mean hot.

Katara's cool.


----------



## Noah (Aug 22, 2010)

He means spicy.

Ya know. Cuz he's indian.


----------



## Burke (Aug 22, 2010)

They should call this one, Avatar: The Last Lady Bender 

(heres to 900!)


----------



## Koi (Aug 22, 2010)

Zuko is SILVER SANDWICH.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 22, 2010)

Koi said:


> Zuko is SILVER SANDWICH.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 22, 2010)

> Zuko's cool.


Cool I can agree with. 

Not hot or spicy. That, my friends, would go to The Boulder. 



> Zuko is SILVER SANDWICH.


I don't get it. I'm sure its probably supposed to be easy though lol



ReikaiDemon said:


> This is exactly what I'm talking about, stop getting hung up on your self, you seriously thought I was trying to start a fight over some stupid throw away comment? You're full of yourself.
> 
> And now this holier than thou act is just rubbing salt into the wound. Seriously, I was never trying to start anything with that fucking Zeus thing.


Really now? Everyone here notices or noticed, how hostile you've been toward me for a LONG time. I'm not acting holier than thou when I did indeed, ask for such things and you rudely rejected it. I even remember apologizing to you.  

You've been on my case for a very, very, very long time now over a damn misunderstanding on your part. I even explained to you what I had meant in a doubly fashion and you were still upset and remain to be so. I tried over and over again to clear the water, but you'd just stir the mud up again.



> My prior history with you shouldn't be a justification for how you should color all your future interactions with me, and seriously, it's as much your fault as it is mine, just don't fucking say anything if you feel like it might lead to some stupid tirade, god dammit.


Didn't I already say I continued the fiascoes when I shouldn't have? But I was also the adult when they happened and asked for a end, apologized time and time again and stopped them myself.

Okay Reikai. You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I saw, witnessed and have experienced. :sigh

I'll say it again though: I'm sorry Reikai, for _whatever_ I might have done to wrong you.

Again, hopefully it'll end. But I doubt that will happen. I hope you have a nice day and a nice life, Reikai. :s


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm rebuilding my Isuzu Trooper engine and decided that Fire Nation colors would be a good choice (what with them being the only real "industrialized" nation an all). 



Just made an upgrade 5 minutes ago:


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 23, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I'm rebuilding my Isuzu Trooper engine and decided that Fire Nation colors would be a good choice (what with them being the only real "industrialized" nation an all).
> 
> 
> 
> Just made an upgrade 5 minutes ago:



Isuzu Trooper engine?

What...? Can that thing actually be used? :amazed

Awesome by the way!


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Isuzu Trooper engine?
> 
> What...? Can that thing actually be used?



Yup!

Just got all the parts back from the machine shop a few days ago and spent the last few days getting it assembled (with help from a much more knowledgeable friend of mine). We're also adding a supercharger to it (that will get painted to). Should have it back in and running within the next week or so. 

Don't worry I'll take pictures.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 23, 2010)

Now add treads and grappling hooks.


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Aug 23, 2010)

Just came upon this. His face is freaking hilarious. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdqKgl4n00w&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 23, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Yup!
> 
> Just got all the parts back from the machine shop a few days ago and spent the last few days getting it assembled (with help from a much more knowledgeable friend of mine). We're also adding a supercharger to it (that will get painted to). Should have it back in and running within the next week or so.
> 
> Don't worry I'll take pictures.




Woah, the convergence of nerd and anti-nerd culture.


----------



## Burke (Aug 23, 2010)

Jove said:


> Woah, the convergence of nerd and anti-nerd culture.



So this engine is like a bastard child of sorts.
Stab, was it you who was going to craft that boomerang some time ago?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 23, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Yup!
> 
> Just got all the parts back from the machine shop a few days ago and spent the last few days getting it assembled (with help from a much more knowledgeable friend of mine). We're also adding a supercharger to it (that will get painted to). Should have it back in and running within the next week or so.
> 
> Don't worry I'll take pictures.



I don't understand much for cars and engines, but maybe I can learn more than I know 

I can't wait to see the finished pics, if it looked great now, it'll look better later.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 25, 2010)

Here it is a little bit further along. Those gold "pipes" on top (which is the intake manifold) will eventually be replaced with a supercharger. Which will add about 100 hp or so. 





*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 25, 2010)

Impressive project. Extra points for originality.

So this is making the rounds today. Endorsed by Edgar Wright himself on his Twitter page.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpzkDnu-nTo&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 25, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Here it is a little bit further along. Those gold "pipes" on top (which is the intake manifold) will eventually be replaced with a supercharger. Which will add about 100 hp or so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those pictures makes it even bigger looking lol

It looks really nice, Stab. What will you use it for exactly? My father built an engine and just kept it in the shed, to look at lol


----------



## Zabuza (Aug 25, 2010)

I went watch the movie today. Finally >.< Well all I got to say is, great special effects (even though didn't make much of an impact in 3D), great music, and good scenarios.

The acting was really poor, the characters too limited, and the story pace too fast and confusing.

The anime is really that much better but still I give it a 5/10 and will probably go watch the next one if it ever comes out.


----------



## Burke (Aug 26, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Impressive project. Extra points for originality.
> 
> So this is making the rounds today. Endorsed by Edgar Wright himself on his Twitter page.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpzkDnu-nTo&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]



Damn, that was seriously one of he best movies ive seen in a long time, and people are barely even noticing it. I mean its soooo good.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 26, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Impressive project. Extra points for originality.
> 
> So this is making the rounds today. Endorsed by Edgar Wright himself on his Twitter page.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpzkDnu-nTo&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]



That was several kinds of awesome, better than the Matrix version. Especially loving the end with Bumi. Kind of ironic that Ozai, the strongest opponent Aang ever beat, plays Matthew Patel, the first Evil Ex.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 26, 2010)

Chuck Norris said:


> I went watch the movie today. Finally >.< Well all I got to say is, great special effects (even though didn't make much of an impact in 3D), great music, and good scenarios.
> 
> The acting was really poor, the characters too limited, and the story pace too fast and confusing.
> 
> The anime is really that much better but still I give it a 5/10 and will probably go watch the next one if it ever comes out.


Its still in theaters? :amazed

That's nice to hear pek I will totally watch the next one as well....if it comes out. lol


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 26, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Impressive project. Extra points for originality.
> 
> So this is making the rounds today. Endorsed by Edgar Wright himself on his Twitter page.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpzkDnu-nTo&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]


Oh shit, Aang hit Azula's boob.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 26, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Oh shit, Aang hit Azula's boob.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 26, 2010)

Jove!


Dang, Aang most really like the ladies...and boobs!


----------



## Nimander (Aug 26, 2010)

Oh, wow.  That WAS impressive.  

It reminds me very much of the TTGL/Pirates of the Caribbean AMV (it actually won an award of some sort in some film contest).


----------



## Burke (Aug 26, 2010)

Who can tell me of sites that would give up to date news on the advancement of 'the legend of korra'?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 26, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Who can tell me of sites that would give up to date news on the advancement of 'the legend of korra'?



Where I get all my news before anything else.


----------



## Burke (Aug 26, 2010)

Ohoho, look at miss up to date <____<


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 26, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Ohoho, look at miss up to date <____<





Is that a good thing...or am I being mocked? >.>


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 27, 2010)

Quite obvious which one  it is here...


----------



## Noah (Aug 27, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Quite obvious which one  it is here...



....Jesus Christ. Seriously, again?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 27, 2010)

No.

Good god.

Get that shit out of here, guys.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 27, 2010)

I didn't do anything!


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 27, 2010)

You're both suspended!


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 27, 2010)

^ Tell em Doc!


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 27, 2010)

I wonder if its a possibility that we might get some serious news in September.


----------



## Shade (Aug 27, 2010)

So, Sifu Kisu is all kinds of awesome.


----------



## Burke (Aug 27, 2010)

Wait, i just got major confusion.
What am i in trouble for?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 27, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Wait, i just got major confusion.
> What am i in trouble for?



Not you. Reikai said something to me, Noah came in and then Dr said he suspended us -- Reikai and Myself :>


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 27, 2010)

Even the passenger gets in trouble.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 27, 2010)

How old are you Terra? Mid-late teens?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 27, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> How old are you Terra? Mid-late teens?



Just turned 18...why?


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 27, 2010)

wat is this.... i dont even.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 27, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> wat is this.... i dont even.



What is what?

The show? Did you read something about Korra you didn't like?

>.>


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 27, 2010)

As the oldest person here I would just like to say *Don't make me turn this car around!*

Now, let's get back to the Avatar talk.  It's an interview with Dee Bradley Baker, here's the relevant part. 



> Right now (my) kids are working through Nickelodeon’s Avatar series, which I’m very proud of and which – it’s something that’s really important to me: Clone Wars means a lot to me, and Avatar means a lot to me too – I did all the creatures in that. Well, the new Avatar, they put out an audition and they wanted a flashback for the younger Avatar – who is now a girl – from when she was this little fireball five-year-old. I had my 10-year-old audition for it, and it was just two sentences, and, well, my five-year-old said, “Daddy, I want to audition. I want to try this, too,” and so I let her give it a shot. And she booked it. And the name of the series is The Last Airbender: The Journey of Korra – and my daughter’s name is Cora. It was just kind of an odd serendipity. To have her involved, with her playing a namesake, the heroic character of the show, that’s pretty cool. Pretty wonderful.
> 
> (Note: Nickelodeon announced the spinoff will be called The Legend of Korra in a July 21 press release, and Baker has confirmed he’s working on it, too.)


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 27, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> As the oldest person here I would just like to say *Don't make me turn this car around!*
> 
> Now, let's get back to the Avatar talk.  It's an interview with Dee Bradley Baker, here's the relevant part.


Wow, that is so weird she got the part and her name is Cora. :amazed

Will she just be playing the flashback of Korra, or all the way?

Ah man, I hope this show gives us some awesome, female kicking other people's ass moments! That would be so freakin' awesome! pek


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 27, 2010)

She's just playing the flashback 5 year-old Korra.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 27, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> She's just playing the flashback 5 year-old Korra.


Aw, phew. I was getting confused reading that *sigh* I have problems


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> What is what?
> 
> The show? Did you read something about Korra you didn't like?
> 
> >.>



nah im just natrually confused
wat is korra??
() ()
(oo) 
(><)


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> nah im just natrually confused
> wat is korra??
> () ()
> (oo)
> (><)



Korra is the new Avatar series about a female Avatar. Her name is Korra. And nopes, she's not related to Aang :>


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 28, 2010)

Technically, she is related to Aang


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 28, 2010)

Technically shes _is_ Aang.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Yea, but I meant blood related. In case he/she thought he/she was gonna think Korra is a _descendant_ of Aang


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 28, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Technically shes _is_ Aang.


Metaphysically, both correct, confusingly.

Same way on the incarnations of Buddha.

Feels like Harry Potter, where most of the characters are related to each other in some way.

Say, the family tree in Avatar is kinda biggish...


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 28, 2010)

It's also why the Aang/Azula crack ship really weirds me out. Great-grandfather/granddaughter psuedo spiritual i*c*st just isn't right.

Of corse I'm talking about a fandom wherein some people ship Zuko/Azula and Sokka/Katara so...


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 28, 2010)

Do mean the entire thing is batshit insane?

Because it is.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 28, 2010)

Hey, i*c*st is the new lesbian


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> It's also why the Aang/Azula crack ship really weirds me out. Great-grandfather/granddaughter psuedo spiritual i*c*st just isn't right.
> 
> Of corse I'm talking about a fandom wherein some people ship Zuko/Azula and Sokka/Katara so...



It utterly creeps me out as well, Stab. Its just.....ewww.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 28, 2010)

I'm wondering if there are people here unfamiliar with the Escape From The Spirit World promotion before the premiere of Book 3. People are always being turned on to the show for the first time the series finale so it wouldn't surprise me.

Well in the series universe, it takes place after Azula shoots Aang. He's in the Spirit world and has to reconnect with his former lives. So you would go to the website, play a game and unlock an animated comic. I figured that I'd link up the chapters for you to see.

Roku

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBJGQodSHw[/YOUTUBE]




Kyoshi

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqnfCsqLPpE&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]



Kuruk

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q826lFB0I3s&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]



Yangchen

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJyfxHEGRqI&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]




All the info here is canonical and will give you further insight into material from all three seasons. If you'd like to go through the entire thing, the website is still up


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 28, 2010)

I tried to play it once, couldn't seem to get around to it for some reason.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Kyoshi
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Oh my gosh! That was so cool! I'm gonna watch Kuruk next 

Thanks for those! I've never heard or seen them before! pek


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Korra is the new Avatar series about a female Avatar. Her name is Korra. And nopes, she's not related to Aang :>



where does it come on at.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> where does it come on at.



Same as previous channel.

I don't know when the show comes out though :/


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

excellent... pek


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> excellent... pek



Unless I'm wrong.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Unless I'm wrong.


hmmmmm fuck it. its still excellent


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> hmmmmm fuck it. its still excellent



I hope I'm not wrong though, that the show will be a big hit and they will make more than 12 episodes pek


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I hope I'm not wrong though, that the show will be a big hit and they will make more than 12 episodes pek



oh like some of the other shows lol. i hate spinoffs.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> oh like some of the other shows lol. i hate spinoffs.



Its not a spin-off, its official, but they said there will only be twelve. I guess because the story is told quickly?

Personally, I don't think I can get attached to characters in only 12 episodes.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Its not a spin-off, its official, but they said there will only be twelve. I guess because the story is told quickly?
> 
> Personally, I don't think I can get attached to characters in only 12 episodes.



oh well that sux. but i still hate spinoffs. jimmy neutron was the only successful one.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> oh well that sux. but i still hate spinoffs. jimmy neutron was the only successful one.



Jimmy Neutron? The show with the kid who had a peanut shaped haircut?


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Jimmy Neutron? The show with the kid who had a peanut shaped haircut?



yes. where do u live if u dont mind me asking.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> yes. where do u live if u dont mind me asking.



America.

I didn't much like that show :/


----------



## Burke (Aug 28, 2010)

Oh yeah, on the note of failing movie to show cartoon spinoff, disney fails. Except lilo and stitch...
But jimmy neutron got it right. Eventually it felt like the movie was a spinof from the cartoons.



Terra Branford said:


> Just turned 18...why?



----
as for on topic, thanks for the korra news stab.


----------



## K (Aug 28, 2010)

This series is gonna blooooooooow.


----------



## Burke (Aug 28, 2010)

Kay said:


> This series is gonna blooooooooow.



Like in a good way?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Kay said:


> This series is gonna blooooooooow.



If I may ask.....Why?




> as for on topic, thanks for the news.



What? >.> I don't get it.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> America.
> 
> I didn't much like that show :/



nor did i but it was popular.


----------



## Burke (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> If I may ask.....Why?


Dont feed thyne troll.



> What? >.> I don't get it.



 because 

and that last bit was for the new korra news, and was directed to stab


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

> Dont feed thyne troll.





awww now i want a troll . or one of those dragons off of avatar.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 28, 2010)

Wait.....Yakari is a troll? Is that what you're saying :< Man, I freakin' suck at this >.>

What about my age? 

Oh, I knew the end of your post was at Stab, I just quoted the post and was too lazy to cut the rest out


----------



## Burke (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> awww now i want a troll . or one of those dragons off of avatar.



TARUK MAK TO!



Terra Branford said:


> Wait.....Yakari is a troll? Is that what you're saying :< Man, I freakin' suck at this >.>


Not yakari, i wastalin bout Kay.



> What about my age?


Nuthin... Im just used to all girls on the intenet being far away from my age in either direction. Change is good.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 28, 2010)

They don't extend miniseries, but if reception is high, and creative forces willing, perhaps there will be a sequel to it.


----------



## Burke (Aug 28, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> They don't extend miniseries, but if reception is high, and creative forces willing, perhaps there will be a sequel to it.



Yes but when i hear mini series, i think two hour long installments on HBO.

Do you think that nick would make the episodes an hour long? Thats all we can hope for now :<


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Wait.....Yakari is a troll? Is that what you're saying :< Man, I freakin' suck at this >.>



awwwww do i act like one


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 28, 2010)

N??ps said:


> TARUK MAK TO!



??? wat is this...i dont even.....


----------



## Burke (Aug 28, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> awwwww do i act like one



I said not you crazy!


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 29, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I said not you crazy!



damn you adhd!!!! whoa my sister almost spilled my guinness.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 29, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Yes but when i hear mini series, i think two hour long installments on HBO.
> 
> Do you think that nick would make the episodes an hour long? Thats all we can hope for now :<


I guess it would be nice if they were an hour long, though, if that means sacrificing quality and content, then it's forgivable not to do so.


----------



## Burke (Aug 29, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I guess it would be nice if they were an hour long, though, if that means sacrificing quality and content, then it's forgivable not to do so.



what would you give for 12 hours of show over 6?
Theyre awesome, im sure they could retain quality


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2010)

I'm gonna watch the rest of those, or try to, tomorrow when I get back on the PC 



N??ps said:


> Nuthin... Im just used to all girls on the intenet being far away from my age in either direction. Change is good.


Oh I see


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 29, 2010)

^^gettin kinky innit.. whoops i ruined the moment


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 29, 2010)

m'srry....heh heh


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 29, 2010)

N??ps said:


> what would you give for 12 hours of show over 6?
> Theyre awesome, im sure they could retain quality


Just depends how they planned out their content.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 29, 2010)

Alright, this things ready to go back in;


Problem is, well... We built it in the living room and it weighs about 400 lbs.! How the hell do we get this thing down to the garage?

Like this;


This is actually after we got it down the stairs, but you can see how we lifted it (that's me by the way). We took some straps, tied them to anchor points on the engine, and slung them over our shoulders. That way we could carry it in a way such that our legs were doing most of the work instead of our arms. 

Now all that's left is getting this thing put back in my Isuzu Sky Bison, uh, I mean Trooper, my Isuzu Trooper (damn did I just give away too much info on what we plan on doing to the outside of my vehicle).


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 29, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Alright, this things ready to go back in;
> 
> 
> Problem is, well... We built it in the living room and it weighs about 400 lbs.! How the hell do we get this thing down to the garage?
> ...


Should've asked The Boulder, he needs work these days.


----------



## Burke (Aug 29, 2010)

Mabye we should all post pics of ourselves to get better aquainted.
Reikai are ahead when it comes to that.
Weve only seen Joves hands if i recall.

Next step, build a fire nation themed HOT rod


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Alright, this things ready to go back in;
> 
> 
> Problem is, well... We built it in the living room and it weighs about 400 lbs.! How the hell do we get this thing down to the garage?
> ...



Hm....you could ask around for some strong men to help ya out ^,^

Or, the hard way. Take it apart and rebuild in garage.


----------



## Burke (Aug 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Hm....you could ask around for some strong men to help ya out ^,^
> 
> Or, the hard way. Take it apart and rebuild in garage.



Or tear apart the house, and get a crane.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 29, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Mabye we should all post pics of ourselves to get better aquainted.
> Reikai are ahead when it comes to that.
> Weve only seen Joves hands if i recall.



Really. Idk how ... haha


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 29, 2010)

i c u lurking


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 29, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> i c u lurking


Please, don't double post and spam here.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Or tear apart the house, and get a crane.



That would be more tedious than rebuilding 

And money consuming.


----------



## K (Aug 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> If I may ask.....Why?



No, you may not.

Do not question me.

My statement is unquestionable, silly mortal.



N??ps said:


> Dont feed thyne troll.



Hey, hey you, suck me.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2010)

Kay said:


> No, you may not.
> Do not question me.
> My statement is unquestionable, silly mortal..



I demand an answer immediately! 
Anyone who dislikes Avatar in anyway, will surely perish by my hand!


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 29, 2010)

Are they going to make more avatar movies?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> Are they going to make more avatar movies?



M.Night said he was going to and has the clear to.

Because of the success the first has gone through, we can expect to see another. But he could always change his mind.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 29, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> Are they going to make more avatar movies?


Who knows? It could go either way, but most likely will continue on.

That is, if complaints don't factor in on the decisions over the movie, which it usually doesn't


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 29, 2010)

Would it be possible to demote him to producer, have different people write and direct the other two without it being a breach of contract?
I think there might be too much damage done. Just scrap the film series altogether.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 29, 2010)

Right now: 130 million domestic, 95 million foreign, 225 million total.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> As the oldest person here I would just  like to say *Don't make me turn this car around!*



You're older than I am? 

Since you don't have your birth date listed, I can't use my mod powers and check.



Superstarseven said:


> I'm wondering if there are people here unfamiliar with the Escape From The Spirit World promotion before the premiere of Book 3. People are always being turned on to the show for the first time the series finale so it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> Well in the series universe, it takes place after Azula shoots Aang. He's in the Spirit world and has to reconnect with his former lives. So you would go to the website, play a game and unlock an animated comic. I figured that I'd link up the chapters for you to see.
> 
> All the info here is canonical and will give you further insight into material from all three seasons. If you'd like to go through the entire thing, the website is still up



Remember the swirl of fan activity around that? 

That was in the throes of desperation, late winter 2007. Everyone was dying for a premiere date, and the rumors of a fall premiere was starting to look more credible. Then this was announced and everyone thought that this _must_ be tied in with a March/April date. 

At that time, Avatar had a one-hour block of reruns every Saturday in the late morning. Over four weeks, they would give the passwords out during those airings. But because Nick.com's website is so fucked up, people had been able to guess the passwords for all four by like 4 AM the first Saturday, 7 something hours before the first password was supposed to be revealed.

Then the first three videos were up, and by the time Nick got around to taking them down they were already ripped and distributed. And because the fourth video was never made available, the excitement around it's contents was off the charts. I always feel like that video doesn't get enough credit, because people were so intent on getting an airdate.

I also remember how cool it was to have Mike officially confirm that it was canon. It was written by him and animated/scored by the Avatar team, so it couldn't be anything _but_ canon, really, but it was nice to hear it from the source.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Would it be possible to demote him to producer, have different people write and direct the other two without it being a breach of contract?
> I think there might be too much damage done. Just scrap the film series altogether.



That would be really good for the movies. If we could get less activity from M.Night as possible, the movie might be even better.

Unless, of course, the new one is worse


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> That would be really good for the movies. If we could get less activity from M.Night as possible, the movie might be even better.
> 
> Unless, of course, the new one is worse



The best thing for the movie would be to let it rest for 2 years. Then have someone with talent, and an actually love for the story do the film.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 29, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> The best thing for the movie would be to let it rest for 2 years. Then have someone with talent, and an actually love for the story do the film.



M.Night loved the film.


I think that's the problem here.

We need someone who isn't too close. Like how they deal it to cops when its a case they are too close to.

Remove and reappoint.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 30, 2010)

Jove said:


> You're older than I am?
> 
> Since you don't have your birth date listed, I can't use my mod powers and check.



Let me put it this way. I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" in the theater... and not the special re-release. I mean the first time around.


----------



## Piekage (Aug 30, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Let me put it this way. I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" in the theater... and not the special re-release. I mean the first time around.



I saw Moses waterbend the sea. Srsly.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 30, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Let me put it this way. I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" in the theater... and not the special re-release. I mean the first time around.



But if you were a baby, you'd only be a few years older than me, and several thousand years younger than Piekage.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 30, 2010)

I dont think "The Last Airbender" has broke even yet, so I dunno if they will make another one.

I'm mixed as to whether they should continue. On one hand, I didnt mind the movie. On the other, its not a financial success and most people who saw it disliked it(which means less people will watch it).

Even though M. Night had the go ahead, they can still take the project away from him. Not sure if that will benefit or harm the picture(as I do believe in M. Night's skills, but TLA was certainly not a good movie either). 

Remember they spent like $50,000,000 on a superman project that never even got off the ground. So they may just cancel it.

I dont like the idea of a reboot any time soon either. I dont like it when people encourage the studios to try again quickly after the films failure. It means more remakes.

As much as I disliked "Superman Returns", I dont want to see it rebooted any time soon. I was also against "Incredible Hulk" and "Punisher Warzone" being reboots.


----------



## Superrazien (Aug 30, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> I dont think "The Last Airbender" has broke even yet, so I dunno if they will make another one.
> 
> I'm mixed as to whether they should continue. On one hand, I didnt mind the movie. On the other, its not a financial success and most people who saw it disliked it(which means less people will watch it).
> 
> ...



Yeah but an Avatar reboot could be real epic. I don't think Superman, Hulk, or Punisher could ever be as epic as Avatar.


----------



## DominusDeus (Aug 30, 2010)

The Last Airbender has earned a worldwide total of $225,495,508. That's $75.5M above its budget.


----------



## Burke (Aug 30, 2010)

Lol Kay neg repped me for truth telling


----------



## ღMomoღ (Aug 30, 2010)

hmm ı think cartoon was better then movie but still liked the movie too
what u guys thinking about it?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 30, 2010)

Well, I can't exactly call it the worst movie ever made, since there are certainly worse movies out there, but it's certainly the worst movie ever made for 150 million dollars!

So, in my official opinion, dollar for dollar, it's absolutely the worst movie ever made.


----------



## Noah (Aug 30, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Yeah but an Avatar reboot could be real epic. I don't think Superman, Hulk, or Punisher could ever be as epic as Avatar.



Superman Returns was crap, but a new Superman movie really was needed. And III and IV really needed to be ignored.

Incredible Hulk was better than Ang Lee's Hulk. Actually, I like it. I don't really see why it's bashed so much.

But Punisher...have you ever SEEN Punisher Warzone? That shit is BEYOND epic!

Beyond GALACTIC!

You might even say it's.....AVATAR.


----------



## Evilene (Aug 30, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> Are they going to make more avatar movies?



Under new direction, I wouldn't mind.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 30, 2010)

Jove said:


> Remember the swirl of fan activity around that?
> 
> That was in the throes of desperation, late winter 2007. Everyone was dying for a premiere date, and the rumors of a fall premiere was starting to look more credible. Then this was announced and everyone thought that this _must_ be tied in with a March/April date.



Yeah the only thing is that the fandom forgot how long it takes to complete an episode. March would have been ideal if only Nick hadn't greenlighted the third season during the summer of '06. Cartoon seasons don't have to set airdates along with new TV fall lineups. If Nickelodeon had ordered the new episodes around the first airings of _Bitter Work_ or _The Chase_ then that grueling 10 month period could have been avoided completely.

Perhaps I'm ignorant to how television works but I think that if you're 7-8 episodes into a television show, you can gauge how well it's doing and if it warrants investing another $20million for another season. Avatar wasn't Spongebob or Rugrats. It had a continuing storyline that people wanted to see resolved. I still don't see why they sat on their hands for so long knowing full well how long it takes to animate 20 episodes. The situation isn't the same as with Adult Swim ordering new episodes of anything, Nick has the money.

Rant over? Yes. 
I remember how excited the fandom over this little news item.


That attached image of the DVD cover is just as exciting as the promo art of Legend Of Korra is to the fans of the show right now.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 30, 2010)

I remember when we first started hearing the rumors that it was Nick's fault after all. But I distinctly remember a sprinkling of debate about when Book 3 would begin and I believe the DongbuFeng guys were the first to speculate that Fall 2007 was a possibility, way back in December 2006.

It's still baffling. They obviously gave the go-ahead for Book 2 fairly quickly, since The Avatar State aired only 3 months after The Siege of the North. Which would suggest that the decision to move ahead with Book 3 came, relatively, *6 months* later than they had greenlit Book 2. And Book 2's ratings were excellent. Totally inexcusable.

I mean, they did an entire goddamn Burger King promotion during the Summer of 2006. Obviously, that had to be planned well in advance, so if that was put through, why wait for getting Book 3 going? Fucking hell, there are sweeps in November too, guys.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 30, 2010)

> Yeah but an Avatar reboot could be real epic. I don't think Superman, Hulk, or Punisher could ever be as epic as Avatar.



Maybe, but fitting in a whole season worth of story into a movie is not an easy task. Thats why I tend to sympathize a little bit more with M. Night and the movie. To me, it's a near impossible task.

Could it be done? Sure. I just dont know how unless you change a lot. 

Im less kind when the changes are pointless. Dragonball is also difficult to make into a movie, but when you change THAT much, then you have no excuse.

But it Avatar was done right, it certainly would be epic. 



> The Last Airbender has earned a worldwide total of $225,495,508. That's $75.5M above its budget.



Studios usually only get half of its gross. Hence, if it grossed 300,000,000. the studio who made it probably got 150,000,000. So they're still a good 40 million from breaking even. It will probably do so on DVD(maybe even profit a little). 

That, and the negative response means that a sequel probably wouldnt be too profitable.



> Well, I can't exactly call it the worst movie ever made, since there are certainly worse movies out there, but it's certainly the worst movie ever made for 150 million dollars!
> 
> So, in my official opinion, dollar for dollar, it's absolutely the worst movie ever made.



Perhaps. Have you seen Cuthroat Island?(that movie apparently lost the studio over 100,000,000 dollars). I havent seen it, and I have to confess....I cant think of a worst movie that cost that much off the top of my head.



> Superman Returns was crap, but a new Superman movie really was needed. And III and IV really needed to be ignored.
> 
> Incredible Hulk was better than Ang Lee's Hulk. Actually, I like it. I don't really see why it's bashed so much.
> 
> ...



Incredible Hulk isnt bashed that much. I thought the movie was okay(same with the 03 Hulk), but did it have to be a full on remake?

My problem both with that and the Punisher Warzone is that they could've been fine with just ignoring the previous entries. Then while being reboots, they can still fit in the continuity of the previous films if you want them to be a sequel. But instead, both movies have one exposition scene that completely rewrites Punisher 04 and Hulk 03. 

I hate that kind of shit.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 30, 2010)

I suppose they're taking the comic book approach to writing comic book movies.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 31, 2010)

I've lost faith in all children's programming executive meddling since around late-2007 :/


----------



## Burke (Aug 31, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I've lost faith in all children's programming executive meddling since around late-2007 :/



Oh thats so true, i cant stand to be on nick or CN for more than 2 minutes.
I actually really like Nicktoons tho. Because its got old stuff. I also like iron man


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Aug 31, 2010)

If they made another movie and put in japanese ledgends they need to get it right. And they need to make the dragons look real and not like puppets.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 31, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> If they made another movie and put in japanese ledgends they need to get it right. And they need to make the dragons look real and not like puppets.


Huuuuuh       ?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 31, 2010)

I second Reikai's "Huh"!?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 31, 2010)

Throw in a third, while we're at it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 31, 2010)

Great, now I feel like a cultist


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 31, 2010)

I disagree. I fully understand whatever it was that was said.

They need to adapt Japanese legend properly. 

And the dragons need to look like real-life dragons.


----------



## Noah (Sep 1, 2010)

Yes. We need dinosaurs.


----------



## Burke (Sep 1, 2010)

Jove said:


> I disagree. I fully understand whatever it was that was said.
> 
> They need to adapt Japanese legend properly.
> 
> And the dragons need to look like real-life dragons.



Yes Jove, real life dragons, like the ones that actually existed.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 1, 2010)




----------



## The Red Gil (Sep 1, 2010)

Mider T watches Nickelodean?

Holy Shit.


----------



## Kisame (Sep 1, 2010)

Avatar was good really, for the lulz sometimes too


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 2, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Yes Jove, real life dragons, like the ones that actually existed.



well for the budget to be that big they could make das dragons look more real on das computer.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 2, 2010)

Also, those dragons aren't exclusively Japanese... <.<

And I don't recall much actual myth being used, most of it was original mythology they wrote...


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 2, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Also, those dragons aren't exclusively Japanese... <.<
> 
> And I don't recall much actual myth being used, most of it was original mythology they wrote...



i read that yin and yang were dragon and not koy. shouldve gotten it closer like with lizards


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2010)

lol no

It was fine the way it was.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Sep 2, 2010)

Gil said:


> Mider T watches Nickelodean?
> 
> Holy Shit.


 Does that make him cool or gay? :amazed


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 2, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> lol no
> 
> It was fine the way it was.


true. the theater i saw it sucked so im sure its better that what i saw.


CrazyMoronX said:


> Does that make him cool or gay? :amazed



both


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2010)

I meant the show.

I haven't seen the movie; if I wanted to watch an abortion of cinematography I'd go watch Dragon Ball and have a laugh at the very least.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 2, 2010)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Does that make him cool or gay? :amazed



I think that watching anything on Logo TV makes you gay.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm not cool or gay or hot or straight

I wonder if Aang absorbed Ozai's fire powers instead of abolishing him.  Easy, cheap way of learning lightning bending.


----------



## Toaster (Sep 2, 2010)

Okay even if there's been 1000 posts about it, the movie.. was so bad...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 2, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> i read that yin and yang were dragon and not koy. shouldve gotten it closer like with lizards


Uh, you know, you should probably stop listening to whatever sources you have, because you are COMPLETELY wrong.

And I should know, being CHINESE after all, and having studied my culture FOR MOST OF MY LIFE.

Also, the koi aren't named Ying and Yang, they're Tui and Laa(sp?). They're based on the Taijtu, yes, but the Taijtu was NEVER a creature in of itself.

That's like saying the human concept of hot and cold are BEINGS.

However, when describing the Taijitu when it was first introduced, it was DESCRIBED in shape, LIKE(But NOT being fish itself) two FISH head to tail. Making koi that resemble the symbol was never unfounded.


----------



## Burke (Sep 2, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Uh, you know, you should probably stop listening to whatever sources you have, because you are COMPLETELY wrong.
> 
> And I should know, being CHINESE after all, and having studied my culture FOR MOST OF MY LIFE.
> 
> ...



Reikai, you are the smart


----------



## Koi (Sep 3, 2010)




----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 3, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Uh, you know, you should probably stop listening to whatever sources you have, because you are COMPLETELY wrong.
> 
> And I should know, being CHINESE after all, and having studied my culture FOR MOST OF MY LIFE.
> 
> ...


hmmm i read it off of wiki and ledgends of myths.com i guess the only thing to say about it Lies all of it lies!! (refering to das websites.)


----------



## Time Expired (Sep 3, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I wonder if Aang absorbed Ozai's fire powers instead of abolishing him.  Easy, cheap way of learning lightning bending.



You will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to ours. Resistance is futile.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 3, 2010)

Borg Aang is a force to be reckoned with, that is until Patrick Stewart pulls a big damn heroes.

...

I think I know how Aang died...


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 3, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Borg Aang is a force to be reckoned with, that is until Patrick Stewart pulls a big damn heroes.
> 
> ...
> 
> I think I know how Aang died...



Aang died??!!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 3, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> Aang died??!!



So how many episodes of the show have you seen?


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 3, 2010)

I just read the slashfiction, Jove.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 3, 2010)

I just read my own 10000 character posts.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 3, 2010)

The first 3 seasons and half of the forth.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 3, 2010)

I've heard of this secret fourth season. How did you manage to get your hands on it?


----------



## Burke (Sep 3, 2010)

Jove said:


> I just read my own 10000 character posts.



equally as disturbing


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 3, 2010)

I read all of your minds...And I will never be the same again...


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 4, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I've heard of this secret fourth season. How did you manage to get your hands on it?



im not quite sure if it was the real one but i visited some website and it was there. the voices and appearences were das same but i dont know. its been two years


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 4, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> im not quite sure if it was the real one but i visited some website and it was there. the voices and appearences were das same but i dont know. its been two years



Wait -- what are we talking about?

Link? Pictures? Actor names? :amazed


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 4, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> im not quite sure if it was the real one but i visited some website and it was there. the voices and appearences were das same but i dont know. its been two years



Whatever you saw, it was not a fourth season.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 5, 2010)

Don't tell him/her that till a link is shared! :amazed

I wonder what he/she did see 



Nøøps said:


> Yes Jove, real life dragons, like the ones that actually existed.



Dragons exist!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 5, 2010)

Well, it couldn't have been the Escape from the Spirit World shorts since that doesn't have voices, and the chibi shorts obviously...


That would be pretty awesome if someone mistook the chibi shorts for legitimate episodes, but I doubt it. And I can't think of any fan made replications...


OH THAT REMINDS ME! What became of the Zutara project? Did they finish that yet?!


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 5, 2010)

Jove said:


> OH THAT REMINDS ME! What became of the Zutara project? Did they finish that yet?!



Zutara project? :amazed


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 5, 2010)

Yeah, a bunch of loony Zutarians on DeviantArt decided to redo the finale with a Zutara ending. They'd do the animation, write the script, and do the VO's. And, of course, the Zutara Loony Maharajah Greenifyme is Katara.

And, inexplicably...

They got Dante fucking Bosco to agree to voice Zuko. 

But I haven't heard anything in a while; last I saw they were still working on it in between real life stuff.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 5, 2010)

Jove said:


> Yeah, a bunch of loony Zutarians on DeviantArt decided to redo the finale with a Zutara ending. They'd do the animation, write the script, and do the VO's. And, of course, the Zutara Loony Maharajah Greenifyme is Katara.
> 
> And, inexplicably...
> 
> ...



Poor Dante.

He too, can't face the truth.


----------



## Burke (Sep 5, 2010)

Damn, i guess rufio really needs work. 
I really wish, if anything, that the bryke releases canon "extended avatarverse" type novels. Ahh books.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 5, 2010)

They must've bribed Dante with some hefty change.  I didn't know he liked voicing Zuko as much as he liked trolling them.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 5, 2010)

Jove said:


> Yeah, a bunch of loony Zutarians on DeviantArt decided to redo the finale with a Zutara ending. They'd do the animation, write the script, and do the VO's. And, of course, the Zutara Loony Maharajah Greenifyme is Katara.
> 
> And, inexplicably...
> 
> ...


I'm convinced DB was just trolling them or something.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 5, 2010)

There is a fourth season; I've seen it.

My dad works for Nickalodeon.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 5, 2010)

Mider T said:


> They must've bribed Dante with some hefty change.  I didn't know he liked voicing Zuko as much as he liked trolling them.



Dante is clearly a Zutara fan.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 5, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> There is a fourth season; I've seen it.
> 
> My dad works for Nickalodeon.


Yes, and my uncle is your dad, and he's a real life ninja pirate automail user.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 5, 2010)

Jove said:


> Yeah, a bunch of loony Zutarians on DeviantArt decided to redo the finale with a Zutara ending. They'd do the animation, write the script, and do the VO's. And, of course, the Zutara Loony Maharajah Greenifyme is Katara.
> 
> And, inexplicably...
> 
> ...



The last update was posted on August 9th by the mastermind behind the poorly titled Zutara Re-finale, she went on to say, 





> Stalled until I get backgrounds from my artists.




I don't know where it is but I do remember reading that Dante's voice track is done and some of the people working on this have heard it. I'm sure nobody here has seen this but it's the winning video entry to the "Zutara remake" opening contest way back in 2008 when the lunacy was at it's fever pitch. 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3Be7uCYN5M[/YOUTUBE]

This contender made more sense then the others primarily because many of the other submissions mistook Avatar for an anime and used a J-pop song under the images. Not really sure what they were thinking there. When would Avatar ever have utilized a modern pop song--Japanese or English?


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 5, 2010)

Well, a general rule of thumb is:

Regardless of what it is, which setting it has, who wrote it, what it's about or who produced it, Jpop is never relevant and should never be used for anything.  Ever.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 5, 2010)

I was about to say, that sounds like an overemotional attempt to emulate the Track Team. Now it seems like they used a very restrained J-pop song. Still incongruous, though.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 6, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Don't tell him/her that till a link is shared! :amazed
> 
> I wonder what he/she did see



she. but i cant find it. it looked das same as das show. hmmm. WTF DID I C?????


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 6, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> she. but i cant find it. it looked das same as das show. hmmm. WTF DID I C?????



What did you see? 

Do you remember anything? Google terms or something? Actor names, hints? Any words in the article/website?


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 6, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> What did you see?
> 
> Do you remember anything? Google terms or something? Actor names, hints? Any words in the article/website?



it was two years ago on my old computer that crashed cuz i spilled beer on. we couldn't get anything off of it. I was on forums when it happened and it screwed my account up. i had to make this one instead. u could look it up but i doubt u find das right one.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 6, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> it was two years ago on my old computer that crashed cuz i spilled beer on. we couldn't get anything off of it. I was on forums when it happened and it screwed my account up. i had to make this one instead. u could look it up but i doubt u find das right one.



Okay....but what did you do to get this information? What did you time? What was your old username? I could look it up that way.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 6, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Well, a general rule of thumb is:
> 
> Regardless of what it is, which setting it has, who wrote it, what it's about or who produced it, Jpop is never relevant and should never be used for anything.  Ever.


J-pop only happens in anime because it's basically advertisement for that band's album, rather than having anything relevant written to the show.


Yakari Umino said:


> it was two years ago on my old computer that crashed cuz i spilled beer on. we couldn't get anything off of it. I was on forums when it happened and it screwed my account up. i had to make this one instead. u could look it up but i doubt u find das right one.


Really? Beer? You don't sound old enough for beer. Then again, I'm not old enough for beer.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 6, 2010)

I agree about that.

You are 13. How did you get beer? Steal it?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 6, 2010)

Wait a sec...How do you spill beer on the computer in a way that damages something specifically on a server? You don't keep your account in your computer...The most common way you spill something on something that is computer related, is the keyboard, and that won't damage your computer, just the keyboard...

Unless you purposefully opened your computer, and pour it in there, I doubt you could short it out. Even if you spilled it on the power outlet, there's little chance it would do damage. 

But that's irrelevant to how it could affect, in any capacity, your NF Forum account. Your story is fishier than Japan's morning fish auctions.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 6, 2010)

Well, spilling on the computer could make it so she couldn't access her computer and account, which is where its located.


I think that's what she meant


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 6, 2010)

Still though, you could easily retrieve access to your account at any other computer, even if you forgot the password, you could still reset it in less than five minutes.

I think he or she was either banned, and had to make a new account, or that he or she never went here before, or that he or she is mistaken, and went to another Naruto forum, and thought that since he or she couldn't log in here, that her or his account was fragged.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 6, 2010)

Probably 

Well, that's what I thought she meant. Personally, when I lost my PC, I lost my account information and it took me months to remember it. Of course, it wasn't on this forum lol


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 6, 2010)

I cut my toe on my toenail...

Speaking of computers, I wanted to build one with my grant money, but decided to buy a laptop instead, so I can rewatch Avatar on the move


----------



## Tony Lou (Sep 7, 2010)

I herd this movie sucks. Not gonna watch it.


----------



## Piekage (Sep 7, 2010)

The Luiz said:


> I herd this movie sucks. Not gonna watch it.



The movie does ( ,   ), the awesome show does not. Watch it if you haven't already.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 7, 2010)

The Luiz said:


> I herd this movie sucks. Not gonna watch it.



Yeah, when you word it that way it's almost as if we left 18k posts for a bad film.


----------



## Burke (Sep 7, 2010)

Its sad how it got 8th in box office for summer and scott pilgrim didnt even break top 20....


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I agree about that.
> 
> You are 13. How did you get beer? Steal it?


no it was in das fridge already bought. and i was sharing it with someone so it wasnt really mine.


ReikaiDemon said:


> Wait a sec...How do you spill beer on the computer in a way that damages something specifically on a server? You don't keep your account in your computer...The most common way you spill something on something that is computer related, is the keyboard, and that won't damage your computer, just the keyboard...
> 
> Unless you purposefully opened your computer, and pour it in there, I doubt you could short it out. Even if you spilled it on the power outlet, there's little chance it would do damage.
> 
> But that's irrelevant to how it could affect, in any capacity, your NF Forum account. Your story is fishier than Japan's morning fish auctions.


It was a laptop when it happened it signed me out of my email. i dont remember das password to das email. i couldnt reset it w/o the email.


ReikaiDemon said:


> Really? Beer? You don't sound old enough for beer. Then again, I'm not old enough for beer.


half non alchohalic. my dad is irish. mom is german. both drink. theyre divorced but still...
You know that makes my life sound kinda not suckish.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 8, 2010)

I think that people here might find this interesting. So as you might know, The Last Airbender has a tie-in game available on Wii. Apparently it's been receiving praise for it's soundtrack so the composer has decided to release it online...for free.


Personal opinion: I dug it. It's much more eastern sounding than the soundtrack for the film. Download it and write down what you think.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 8, 2010)

That's amazing.

At least something good came of this.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 8, 2010)

Did M. Night have control over choosing the composer for the film's soundtrack?  If so this is hilarious.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 8, 2010)

He chose his favored composer, and it turned out to be dreadfully boring but not particularly offensive.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 8, 2010)

it wont download... grrrrr


----------



## Burke (Sep 8, 2010)

How did the game play out?
What were reviews like


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 8, 2010)

N??ps said:


> How did the game play out?
> What were reviews like






> Nintendo Power
> 
> Outside of an *epic soundtrack* and a few cool graphic effects(such as displacing snow when you run through it and knocking off enemies' armor when you attack them), The Last Airbender is a pretty unspectacular action-adventure game. [_Aug 2010, p.91_]



It's probably as fun as those lame series tie-in games.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 8, 2010)

Jove said:


> He chose his favored composer, and it turned out to be dreadfully boring but not particularly offensive.


Isn't that one of the taglines from one of the few positive reviews of the movie?


----------



## Wan (Sep 9, 2010)

Piekage said:


> The movie does ( ,   ), the awesome show does not. Watch it if you haven't already.



That was _glorious_.



Jove said:


> He chose his favored composer, and it turned out to be dreadfully boring but not particularly offensive.



Well, the thing about the soundtrack is that the little bit we heard in the teaser trailer last summer was _awesome._  Epic as anything from the show.  But the soundtrack, along with the rest of the trailer, amounted to nothing in the movie.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 9, 2010)

I always found this bit interesting from the UGO interview with the Track Team.



> Matt Patches: I know you guys weren't involved with The Last Airbender film, but did James Newtown Howard [the film's composer] ever contact you looking for inspiration or questions?
> 
> Benjamin Wynn: I would've loved to talk to him, but we never talked to him. In the credits in the end, you can hear very subtly three notes of the main Aang theme. It plays very quietly on some sort of keyboard instrument. A little nod, which I appreciated. There were other moments, unless I'm convincing myself, where it sounded like a nod to the show. I'd love to talk to him about it. I thought it was really cool!



I know exactly what 3 notes Ben was talking about, in fact I was taken aback when I heard it because it did sound like JNH was going into Aang's theme for a bit. It's pretty cool that he picked up on it but I'm not 100% convinced that it was a nod to the show's music unless I read that James watched a few episodes of the show.
Mick Gordon from the game soundtrack seems to have captured the spirit of the series a bit more. I think there's even an Armenian Duduk on one track, Which is funny because James used a duduk player for the Blood Diamond score but not for TLA.

For those that don't know, the duduk is used as the sound for the Sunghi Horn on the show.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 9, 2010)

For shame, the shovelware game has a more faithful soundtrack than the movie.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 9, 2010)

You know, I love the Track Team. I love them separately, I love them together, but James Newton Howard almost certainly paid them _no homage whatsoever_. There's no guarantee he even watched the show at all. I'm sure that was for a reason, too, if true; he wanted it to be a wholly original work, not incumbent upon someone else's.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 9, 2010)

The Sham really kind of took the name, the characters, the blurb on the back of Book 1 and made his own fanfiction of it--it just so happened that he had more money to work on it than most people will every earn in their entire life time.

He took direct control over almost everything.


----------



## Burke (Sep 9, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> It's probably as fun as those lame series tie-in games.



Ah yes, man, i want to know where my sidescroller fighter avatar game is!
U know leik mortal kombat olol


----------



## Deweze (Sep 9, 2010)

Hi                                         .


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 9, 2010)

hey Deweze.

Are  they gonna make a second movie since that one did so well on das charts?


----------



## Mider T (Sep 9, 2010)

^And a third.  One for each book.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 9, 2010)

i hope m night doesnt make them. and they should get someone else to play zuko.
Btw
ZUko
ZUtarra
aZUla
coincedence? i think not.


----------



## Deweze (Sep 9, 2010)

This show was surprisingly good.


----------



## Burke (Sep 9, 2010)

Yakari Umino said:


> i hope m night doesnt make them. and they should get someone else to play zuko.
> Btw
> ZUko
> ZUtarra
> ...



whats the correlation?


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 9, 2010)

N??ps said:


> whats the correlation?



well i thought it was strange that das family would all have names with zu in them. thats al


----------



## Wan (Sep 10, 2010)

Zs are popular in Fire Nation names, especially in the Royal Family:

*Z*uko
*Z*hao
O*z*ai
A*z*ula
A*z*ulon
So*z*in
Ku*z*on

Btw, you do know that "Zutarra" is not a character, right?


----------



## Noah (Sep 10, 2010)

........

I'm still trying to figure out if everyone is just inadvertently feeding a troll here.


----------



## Wan (Sep 10, 2010)

Hmmm...nah, not annoying enough to be a troll yet.  Just a noob. (I'm one to talk...)


----------



## Noah (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm basing it more on the mystical 4th season than anything else. Of course it's possible, he/she was referring to the post-DOBS episodes. I mean, there was, what, 6 years between them?

Also: That Wii game soundtrack is epic. Like, halfway to the track team-level epic.


----------



## Nimander (Sep 10, 2010)

I still stand by the assertion that the movie was tolerable, if not good, and that I'm looking forward to the direction that M. Night will take Aang's character in the sequels.  

Of all the main characters, Aang was probably the one I liked the least in the series itself.  I would've loved to see some different development with him in some areas.  So maybe M. Night will deliver.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 10, 2010)

Noah said:


> Also: That Wii game soundtrack is epic. Like, halfway to the track team-level epic.



Yeah, the composer sent me an e-mail and answered a question of mine.



> Your ears are completely correct - for Airbender I wanted to record a lot of ethnic instruments and I ended up buying an Oud, two Duduks, two Bansuri, two Indonesian flutes and a Mijwiz.  I can't quite remember which is in _The Sinking Ship_ but I can't definitely hear the Mijwiz in there at 00:54 and there's a Bansuri at 00:17.



Another interesting bit was this - 


> The biggest challenge was having to write the music for the video game before James Newton Howard wrote the score for the film.  I also wasn't able to contact him to ask him what sort of style he was going to do, so there was definitely a lot of guess work involved.



Nice guy. 
By the way for those that don't know, The Track Team will be providing the music for the upcoming Kung Fu Panda series which should air sometime in the fall.

Check out this interesting thing I found -
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3QubK68sYQ&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Piekage (Sep 10, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> That was _glorious_.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the thing about the soundtrack is that the little bit we heard in the teaser trailer last summer was _awesome._  Epic as anything from the show.  But the soundtrack, along with the rest of the trailer, amounted to nothing in the movie.



Glad you enjoyed it.



> I still stand by the assertion that the movie was tolerable, if not good, and that I'm looking forward to the direction that M. Night will take Aang's character in the sequels.
> 
> Of all the main characters, Aang was probably the one I liked the least in the series itself. I would've loved to see some different development with him in some areas. So maybe M. Night will deliver.



To each his own. I've said my say on the movie; it's shit, almost everything about it is shit, and M Night ruined the first season because he's an arrogant has-been who ignored any advice he was offered in favor of making his Avatar fanfic a reality. How that movie made back it's budget I'll never know, but I guess it's not the first time people paid money to watch garbage.

So, as good as it feels to hate that piece of shit, lets avoid the subject. Nothing good can come of it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 10, 2010)

So SS7, what was the composers feelings about the show and the Track Team? I know you must have asked something akin to that.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 10, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Yeah, the composer sent me an e-mail and answered a question of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 10, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Zs are popular in Fire Nation names, especially in the Royal Family:
> 
> *Z*uko
> *Z*hao
> ...



yea i figured. I couldn't remeber das other names. i knowed they had z in them though.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 10, 2010)

Deliberate troll.  Has to be.


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 10, 2010)

ok wat is a troll???


----------



## Mider T (Sep 10, 2010)

)


----------



## Yakari Kaiya Nicometo (Sep 10, 2010)

thank you. Is avatar chinese or ameican??


----------



## Mider T (Sep 10, 2010)

^Try to keep us updated from time to time on which episode you're on.  What you think about it so far and your predictions.



Yakari Umino said:


> thank you. Is avatar chinese or ameican??



Read the link before responding again.  Then read the wiki entry for Avatar.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 10, 2010)

Jove said:


> So SS7, what was the composers feelings about the show and the Track Team? I know you must have asked something akin to that.



I mentioned them in regards to what ethnic instruments they used for the show's cues. That's why you see Mr. Gordon list off the instruments he used for his pieces. There was no clear indication that he knew who they were but I'd like to suggest a few tracks from the series OST for him to listen to. He's most likely done with anything Airbender so at this point it would just be an appreciation of peers.


----------



## Burke (Sep 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just started watching this series today, and finished the first two episodes, and I am so glad that I finally (and I must emphasize that word) am able to watch this series, for I have been eager to watch this series for some time now, yet been too busy with following other series to do so. Now that I have finished the other series that I was following, however, I can watch this one free of any hindrances in doing so. I have heard that this series is one of the best western animated series in many years, and I hope that it can live up to that expectation of mine. This is actually the first time in many years that I have been so excited to watch a new television series, so I hope to enjoy it as thoroughly as I possibly can.
> 
> Thus far, I fortunately have been able to avoid having any major plot elements of the series spoiled for me, which is good, for I shall feel a greater sense of drama and suspense while I am watching it. Of course, I already know several facts about the series, such as
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Your wall of text impresses jove


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 10, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Man, I really want ATLA to be dubbed in either Cantonese or Mandarin...



But then the Avatar world's script would have to be Middle English.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 11, 2010)

Mider T said:


> ^Try to keep us updated from time to time on which episode you're on.  What you think about it so far and your predictions.



I shall keep you updated, as I did when I was watching _Code Geass,_ but I shall likely post in this thread after every several episodes, rather than every single episode, to save time. Also, I shall be watching this series on my computer simultaneously with _Teen Titans_ and _X-Men: Evolution,_ two other extremely good western animated series (although I have already seen about fifty percent of the episodes of each of those series, so I already have some familiarity with them), so I am not certain if I shall post in this thread every day.



Nøøps said:


> Your wall of text impresses jove



Are you being sarcastic or serious? The reason that my previous post was so long was that it was my first post made after starting this series, so I naturally had much to say about it. My following posts will likely be not quite as long as it.

I am up to only episode 3 currently, as I had to work tonight (if I did not have to work, I likely would have been much further by now), but I noticed something else; the "penguins" in this series had an extra set of wings and the facial features of otters, making them very different from real-world penguins, and Appa, in addition to being a flying buffalo, has six legs, which no normal buffalo has, yet no one in the series remarked upon these traits. Should I presume that these are perfectly normal traits within the _Avatar_ universe?

Also, I was very pleased that Zuko is a skilled melee fighter and not overly reliant upon his fire-bending abilities, for he would not have enough depth, in my view, if he used only one fighting style constantly. I was also very pleased that Aang's identity as the Avatar was revealed in the second episode, because it was very obvious, even if I had not already known that. I am very glad that this series did not do what _Trigun_ did: having Vash follow Milly and Meryl for five or six episodes before his identity was finally revealed, when again, it was very obvious to the audience.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 11, 2010)

Animals in the Avatar world are hybrid animals.  You'll see what the gang thinks later when they encounter a "realistic" animal.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 11, 2010)

Jove said:


> But then the Avatar world's script would have to be Middle English.


Nah, they'll just be all Bronze Script


----------



## Burke (Sep 11, 2010)

I was being serious!
Its been a while since jove has had intelligent people to talk with


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> that Zuko is somewhat like Vegeta, and that Zuko and Katara are a frequent fan-preferred couple over Aang and Katara



Wow. 

The people that ship Zuko and Katara are simply the louder, more vitriolic of the two. People that ship Aang and Katara are too smug and impressed with themselves to overpower the sheer volume of Zutara. I wouldn't say there's one or the other, though; I'd put the numbers at 55% Zutara, 45% Kataang.

I think that *character you haven't encountered yet* and Sokka is the big ship, honestly.

Zuko's scar is explained in one of the better episodes of the series. In that episode, we also learn about the situation that led to Aang being in an iceberg for 100 years. It's one of the many examples of Aang-Zuko narrative parallels in episodes.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 11, 2010)

To tell the truth, I'm not into Avatar shipping, but watching the drama is sooooo delicious


----------



## Burke (Sep 11, 2010)

If theres anything that i "ship" it would be couples that already are together, i hate crack
Im a sucka for naruhina tho


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 11, 2010)

I am far too early in the series to be supporting any couples, but I am certain that I shall develop preferences of my own as I progress, but why must Jove torment me by referring to "that character I have not encountered yet?" And since he mentioned Sokka, I dislike Sokka's sexist attitude, and am glad that first Katara and then the warriors of Kyoshi injured his pride and proved that such an attitude was folly. Hopefully, Sokka will develop better respect for women as the series progresses. In also dislike how in episode 3, Aang so casually stated that he was the Avatar; surely, he must realize that doing so will draw attention to him, either causing other people to think him crazy or wish him dead? I believe that he should be far more discreet about his identity.



Nøøps said:


> I was being serious!
> Its been a while since jove has had intelligent people to talk with



Thank you very much, Nøøps; I always attempt to speak in an intelligent manner whenever I communicate with other people, but on the internet, I unfortunately do not always encounter other people who speak intelligently.

*EDIT:* I just saw the scene where word passed from person to person, and Zuko learned where Aang was located; I guess that the maturity that Aang displayed in the first episode was unfortunately only temporary.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 11, 2010)

*Dang, I need to make some free time from school and studying to post on this forum again lol*

@DemonDragonJ:
Started the series? 

Yea, Sokka's sexism....I forgot about that. I loved the Kyoshi warriors episode.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 12, 2010)

Yeah, one of the few times they incorporated Japanese instead of archaic Chinese.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 12, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Yeah, one of the few times they incorporated Japanese instead of archaic Chinese.



The name "Kyoshi" also sounds Japanese, but it I find that it sounds more masculine than feminine (similar to how "Kyoji" is masculine), so it seems to me that the creators of the series might not have researched everything as well as they could have by giving a female character a masculine name.

Why was there only one man on Kyoshi Island? Were all the other men killed in battle, or away fighting? That was never explained, unless it is explained later.

By the way, has anyone been to this series' page on the _TVTropes_ website? I have, and I found a link that was very interesting, under the "Estrogen Brigade" section. Apparently, the target demographic of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is boys ages 10 and 11, so how does one explain ?


----------



## Burke (Sep 12, 2010)

Well think about it this way, it sounds masculine, yes, but remember they were warriors, a role usually portrayed by men. Also, if it sounds masculine, well its avatar kyoshi's name, she couldnt help it sounded masculine.

Why is my bandwith beeing exceeded for some of the smileys? :l


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> At the end of the fourth episode, I was glad to see that Sokka was beginning to reconsider his attitude about women, and I was also glad that Suki told him that a woman could be a warrior without ceasing to be a woman. However, despite my pleasure at seeing Suki humiliate Sokka, I was also glad to see Sokka knock her down, as well, for she also was arrogant; it was both humorous and satisfying for me to see the look of complete surprise on Suki's face, which made it very clear that she was using the same excuse that Sokka had used earlier in that episode, that he had allowed Suki to knock him down. Although Sokka and Suki have only just met each other, I cannot help but wonder if they shall meet again, and I certainly detected hints of attraction between them.
> 
> In the previous episode, when Aang named the lemur Momo, I noticed that he named Momo after the lemur had taken a fruit from Sokka; was that fruit a peach _("momo"_ is the Japanese word for "peach")?



When I saw how he acted toward women, I didn't like his character much. But after that episode (ad he changed lol) he was cool to me. 

Suki is awesome, its cool if she has arrogance 



> Why is my bandwith beeing exceeded for some of the smileys? :l


Me too


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 12, 2010)

Sokka is possibly the most satisfying character arc in the whole show. I was debating whether to even say that, because I want his arc to present itself organically to you, but you seem pretty bright. Pay close attention to Sokka as you make your way through Book 2 and 3.


Language on Avatar was, and continues to be, a big discussion. I've always accepted it as presented. Their script is Chinese, they speak English, and somehow they have a form of English that contains foreign words (ie, they have the word "momo," which means "peaches," but they also have the word "peaches.").


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 12, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> Well think about it this way, it sounds masculine, yes, but remember they were warriors, a role usually portrayed by men. Also, if it sounds masculine, well its avatar kyoshi's name, she couldnt help it sounded masculine.



Yes, I can understand that, but I have also noticed that certain characters' names are pronounced differently from how their spellings would suggest. For example, Sokka's name is pronounced as either "sah-kah" or "sock-ah," yet I thought that it was "soh-kah" or "soak-ah," which to me makes more sense phonetically. Iroh's name is pronounced as "ai-roh" or "eye-row," yet I expected it to be pronounced as "ee-roh," which again is what the spelling suggests phonetically. Again, I shall presume that this is the result of a world modeled after ancient Asian cultures in a series created in the United States.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 12, 2010)

Soh-Kah brings back memories of the movie, which we'd rather not talk about.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 12, 2010)

Jove said:


> Sokka is possibly the most satisfying character arc in the whole show. I was debating whether to even say that, because I want his arc to present itself organically to you, but you seem pretty bright. Pay close attention to Sokka as you make your way through Book 2 and 3.
> 
> 
> Language on Avatar was, and continues to be, a big discussion. I've always accepted it as presented. Their script is Chinese, they speak English, and somehow they have a form of English that contains foreign words (ie, they have the word "momo," which means "peaches," but they also have the word "peaches.").



Sounds like English. lol

I'm getting into linguistics, and the way Avatar presents its language is almost exactly like English, except English writes in its own script, and the show in Chinese... 

Iroh is supposed to be pronounced "Eye-row" and I don't know about Sokka, but I pronounce and will always pronounce it, "Sok-Ah" simply because it sounds better and that's how I believe it is pronounced. lol


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 12, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Soh-Kah brings back memories of the movie, which we'd rather not talk about.



I have not seen the live-action movie, and currently have no intention doing so.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 12, 2010)

I think they just speak the language the audience predominantly speak

It's more for the audience's convenience than canonical reasons 

Also, since Momo is a proper noun, it doesn't get translated to peaches.

Or, I guess you could get strange, and say Japanese exists, and all Japanese words are heard as is.

That goes for other languages as well, names like Azula and stuff


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I think they just speak the language the audience predominantly speak
> 
> It's more for the audience's convenience than canonical reasons
> 
> Also, since Momo is a proper noun, it doesn't get translated to peaches.



Right, but why would Momo exist in their world? They call him Momo because he had a peach.

The thing about the language they speak probably sticks with me more because I read a thread somewhere else where some dude claimed that the characters _actually_ speak Chinese, as if Mike and Bryan simply translated what the people in the world they created speak. It was created by English speakers, it's not a real-Earth location. They speak English. I'm still appalled by that guy's logic.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 12, 2010)

Jove said:


> Right, but why would Momo exist in their world? They call him Momo because he had a peach.
> 
> The thing about the language they speak probably sticks with me more because I read a thread somewhere else where some dude claimed that the characters _actually_ speak Chinese, as if Mike and Bryan simply translated what the people in the world they created speak. It was created by English speakers, it's not a real-Earth location. They speak English. I'm still appalled by that guy's logic.


Well, we could think of it like this. Aang is a nomad, presumably, he and his kind would know other languages.

There's nothing against other languages in Avatar I believe.

However, it's strange how they hop all over the world (or the main continents at least) and never run into any language barriers aside from local vernacular. They touched very lightly on this with "flameo" and "hotman"

Chinese as a spoken language varies so much regionally, that speakers of one dialect would be unable to understand another dialect as if it were a whole other language, and then there's accents and such

As for the origins of other languages, have we always assumed that the map of the avatar world is a complete map of their world?

Though, there have been lingual jokes of english, like Justice is Just US and lettuce leaf, there was also the Ba Sing Se/Na sing se

As for written language, they flubbed up quite a few I believe.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 12, 2010)

I'm pretty sure they confirmed it in their ASN interview, that the map we see is akin to the flat-maps of our world.

What you bring up, Rekky, is pretty much standard everywhere. Europe itself has multiple languages, but even in particular countries there are dialect issues (from personal experience, the Netherlands has dialects in every _province_, and the Netherlands is barely the size of Southern New England). And I know that I have troubles understanding people from Eastern Massachusetts sometimes, and that's only 90 miles.

I'd say that's a bigger issue than Asian-looking people writing Chinese and speaking English.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 12, 2010)

Jove said:


> I'm pretty sure they confirmed it in their ASN interview, that the map we see is akin to the flat-maps of our world.
> 
> What you bring up, Rekky, is pretty much standard everywhere. Europe itself has multiple languages, but even in particular countries there are dialect issues (from personal experience, the Netherlands has dialects in every _province_, and the Netherlands is barely the size of Southern New England). And I know that I have troubles understanding people from Eastern Massachusetts sometimes, and that's only 90 miles.
> 
> I'd say that's a bigger issue than Asian-looking people writing Chinese and speaking English.


Chinese is sort of a special case though, the written language is decipherable to any speaker of any dialect if they both learned to read and write Chinese. 

Funnily enough, in Avatar, everybody can understand each others speech, yet can also read Chinese no matter WHAT form is being used, even if it is ancient. Well, except Toph of course, she can't read anything...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 12, 2010)

In a way, it almost seems like at some point there was a worldwide intent to conform to a singular language, yet retained a number of loanword and phrases. That's the only explanation for the Ba/Na Sing Se joke, which has always baffled me.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 12, 2010)

Jove said:


> In a way, it almost seems like at some point there was a worldwide intent to conform to a singular language, yet retained a number of loanword and phrases. That's the only explanation for the Ba/Na Sing Se joke, which has always baffled me.


Seems to baffle the Gaang too


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 12, 2010)

Maybe it's a Ba Sing Se thing. For a city-state obsessed with it's own tradition, maybe it retained some archaic language.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 12, 2010)

While we are discussing languages so thoroughly, I shall mention that before I started properly watching the series, I saw one episode on television, in which Azula appeared, and I noticed that when the characters said her name, they placed a strong emphasis on its middle syllable, i.e. "ah-_zu_-lah," rather than emphasizing none of the syllables, such as in the Japanese name Sakura, which is what I was expecting. Would it really have been that difficult for the people who created this series to have spent a slightly greater amount of effort to ensure that the character's name sounded more authentically Asian?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 12, 2010)

Azula is based on azul, so it's inherently inauthentic. You're nitpicking.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds like the English language. Loanwords, loan-phrases -- things like that. Its like another bastard child of all languages, much like English. Anglo-Saxon met Norman tongue, Roman Latin,  Germanic sounds, African adjectives and Greek verbs and a whole lot more squeezed together, bred like mad and created the mostly-regular Latin-grammar system and then spread like fire across the Europe.

So maybe for Avatar, its the same, except its just English, Chinese and Japanese (?)?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> While we are discussing languages so  thoroughly, I shall mention that before I started properly watching the  series, I saw one episode on television, in which Azula appeared, and I  noticed that when the characters said her name, they placed a strong  emphasis on its middle syllable, i.e. "ah-_zu_-lah," rather than  emphasizing none of the syllables, such as in the Japanese name Sakura,  which is what I was expecting. Would it really have been that difficult  for the people who created this series to have spent a slightly greater  amount of effort to ensure that the character's name sounded more  authentically Asian?


Well, Azula isn't really an asian name...

Edit: Reminder to self: refresh next time...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 12, 2010)

I mean, the show went out of its way to be authentic, having Sifu Kisu choreograph everything and having an on-call calligraphy/translation expert as well as two cultural experts.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 12, 2010)

There's no argument that they brought something original, and more culture to American animation.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 12, 2010)

Jove said:


> I mean, the show went out of its way to be authentic, having Sifu Kisu choreograph everything and having an on-call calligraphy/translation expert as well as two cultural experts.



You're absolutely right. Mike and Bryan could've easily given Nickelodeon something like Legend Of The Dragon but thank the heavens that they wanted to make something sincere. Asian culture was treated with respect and not as set-dressing. It was really the effort to go that extra mile which really set it apart from other animated series.


----------



## Burke (Sep 13, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> You're absolutely right. Mike and Bryan could've easily given Nickelodeon something like Legend Of The Dragon but thank the heavens that they wanted to make something sincere. Asian culture was treated with respect and not as set-dressing. It was really the effort to go that extra mile which really set it apart from other animated series.



Does Shaolin (Xiolin) Showdown fall under the category of "Legend of the Dragon"-like. Cause it was a damned good show. Good animation, good story, humerous at most points serious at others.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 13, 2010)

I admit to liking Xiolin Showdown on occasion.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 13, 2010)

I like the fact that Xiaolin Showdown didn't take itself too seriously.  Yes it was a show heavily submerged in Chinese influences, but at the end of the day it's a kid's show for Western kids and the humor wasn't half bad.


----------



## Burke (Sep 13, 2010)

T, your sig scares me, remove it from my sight


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 13, 2010)

Only the Avatar has the ability to bend more than one element.  That's about it.

And, you'll just have to trust us on Bumi.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 13, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I was wondering about benders and when and where they are born. How is it that only fire-benders are born into the Fire Nation, earth-benders into the Earth Kingdom, and so on? I suppose that one explanation is that in prehistoric times, benders of the same element began to congregate together, which is how the four nations developed, but what if a bender of an element was born into a nation that did not specialize in that element? Would that person need to seek a mentor elsewhere, or learn how to bend on their own? And is bending an inherited ability, or is it completely random? The fact that Katara can bend but her brother, Sokka, cannot, suggests to me that the ability to bend can manifest randomly in any person.




An oft-quoted interview with Mike and Bryan:



> RM: Okay, next I know I'm going really left brained and you can call me a geek because I am, but in "The Fortuneteller" you have a pair of twins...kids...one is an earthbender and one isn't. So is bending genetic, or is it some sort of spiritual thing? How does it work?
> 
> BK: Mike and I just got new puppies. They're brothers. They have the same mother and father. Same litter. Mike's dog can just sit in a crate and be happy as a clam. My dog just loses all control...everything. Who knows why these things happen? They're beyond our full understanding.
> 
> ...


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 13, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Does Shaolin (Xiolin) Showdown fall under the category of "Legend of the Dragon"-like. Cause it was a damned good show. Good animation, good story, humerous at most points serious at others.



No, Xiaolin Showdown along with American Dragon and Life and Times of Juniper Lee were much more comedy based than Avatar is. I suppose that in a way they can be forgiven if not as much work was put into their respective episodes. Gotta give credit to Judd Winick for always referring to Juniper as the Te Xuan Ze rather than using an English translation for what her role was on the show. Xiaolin also had the benefit of being created by a Chinese woman so fact checking came straight from the top.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 13, 2010)

Wait, should I be shamed for liking Xiaolin Showdown as much as I did? I enjoyed that and American Dragon very much 

>.>


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 13, 2010)

I didn't like any of those shows <.<

Anyways, there's a lot of factors that MAY add up to siring a bender, talent, blood, upbringing and spirituality.


----------



## Burke (Sep 13, 2010)

Jove said:


> An oft-quoted interview with Mike and Bryan:



I love this prt of the interview, its so deep.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 13, 2010)

I'd prefer kibbies


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 13, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I love this prt of the interview, its so deep.



Yeah, I'm not really sure why they didn't go fully on the record with this, but it could just be the way the dude constructed the interview. He makes it seem like it's off-the-record, when it always seemed more like further clarifications that they didn't think of on the spot when he first asked.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 14, 2010)

I found Aang's masquerade as an elderly man to be quite humorous, and he was clearly enjoying it, but can anyone remember what the false name he used was? It was complicated, but it sounded vaguely Greek.

Did anyone else realize that the king was Bumi before he revealed himself?

Jove, I thank you for your explanation, but I now am wondering about something else: do all humans in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ live in the four nations, or are there settlements that are not affiliated with the nations? Clearly, the four nations are the largest and most influential factions, but I find it unrealistic that there would not be numerous tiny settlements that were uninvolved in the political activities of the four major nations.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 14, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I didn't like any of those shows <.<
> 
> Anyways, there's a lot of factors that MAY add up to siring a bender, talent, blood, upbringing and spirituality.



Wow, not even American Dragon? That show was pretty good, and I was surprised that I wasn't annoyed by the animation.


----------



## Klue (Sep 14, 2010)

Anything new regarding the new series?


----------



## Wan (Sep 14, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Jove, I thank you for your explanation, but I now am wondering about something else: do all humans in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ live in the four nations, or are there settlements that are not affiliated with the nations? Clearly, the four nations are the largest and most influential factions, but I find it unrealistic that there would not be numerous tiny settlements that were uninvolved in the political activities of the four major nations.



The Earth Kingdom seems less like a united kingdom and more like a confederation of smaller nations that contribute to the same military and national identity in order to fight the Fire Nation.  For example, Bumi is the king of the city of Omashu, but he isn't actually king of the whole Earth Kingdom- that title belongs to Kuei in Ba Sing Se (which will be mentioned in an upcoming episode).  The Fire Nation is definitely a unified empire ruled firmly by Fire Lord Ozai.  The Water Tribes- well, describing the nature of the water tribes might be a little spoilerific.  We don't really know much about the organization of the Air Nomads, but their name doesn't suggest much centralized government.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 14, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Did anyone else realize that the king was Bumi before he revealed himself?



I didn't start watching until early in Book 2, so I already knew by the time I watched that episode, but it's definitely more of an audience omniscience thing. It works, though, because obviously the Original Three wouldn't expect someone to be Aang's age naturally.

Since it doesn't appear that they are aware of the examples of people living to exceptional lengths in the Avaverse.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 14, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I found Aang's masquerade as an elderly man to be quite humorous, and eh was clearly enjoying it, but can anyone remember what the false name he used was? It was complicated, but it sounded vaguely Greek.


Bonzu Pipinpadaloxicopolis, according to avatar.wikia.com.


DemonDragonJ said:


> I thank you for your explanation, but I now am wondering about something else: do all humans in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ live in the four nations, or are there settlements that are not affiliated with the nations? Clearly, the four nations are the largest and most influential factions, but I find it unrealistic that there would not be numerous tiny settlements that were uninvolved in the political activities of the four major nations.





Mordin Solus said:


> The Earth Kingdom seems less like a united kingdom and more like a confederation of smaller nations that contribute to the same military and national identity in order to fight the Fire Nation.  For example, Bumi is the king of the city of Omashu, but he isn't actually king of the whole Earth Kingdom- that title belongs to Kuei in Ba Sing Se (which will be mentioned in an upcoming episode).  The Fire Nation is definitely a unified empire ruled firmly by Fire Lord Ozai.  The Water Tribes- well, describing the nature of the water tribes might be a little spoilerific.  We don't really know much about the organization of the Air Nomads, but their name doesn't suggest much centralized government.


There are some off-shoot groups, like the Kyoshi Warriors, that are loosely tied to one of the four nations. You'll meet more in later episodes.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 14, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Bonzu Pipinpadaloxicopolis, according to avatar.wikia.com.
> 
> There are some off-shoot groups, like the Kyoshi Warriors, that are loosely tied to one of the four nations. You'll meet more in later episodes.



That's Bonzu Pipinpadaloxicopolis _the Third_ to you, son.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 14, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> That's Bonzu Pipinpadaloxicopolis _the Third_ to you, son.


 I felt this was appropriate


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 14, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> That's Bonzu Pipinpadaloxicopolis _the Third_ to you, son.


This whipper-snapper is humbled. 


ReikaiDemon said:


> I felt this was appropriate


----------



## Raiden (Sep 14, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I felt this was appropriate



Haha nice .


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 14, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Bonzu Pipinpadaloxicopolis, according to avatar.wikia.com.





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> That's Bonzu Pipinpadaloxicopolis _the Third_ to you, son.



Thank you very much, and what an interesting name that is, although even if Aang did create that name completely at random, it is rather unusual that a character in an Asian-themed world would create a Greek-sounding name. Despite that, however, it was very impressive how quickly Katara played along with the facade.

I just finished watching episode 6, and I have a question for the users of this forum: when watching a television series or movie or reading a book, have you ever become exasperated at how unintelligently the characters within that story were acting? I have felt that way numerous times, but this episode was particularly egregious; first, Katara openly revealed herself to Haru when there was absolutely no guarantee that he would be friendly to her; secondly, the trio bluntly stated aloud that they had seen Haru earth-bending when he denied any knowledge of such an event in a tone that suggested such activity was dangerous; third, the soldiers from the Fire Nation first though that Momo was earthbending and then failed to realize that the entire scenario was staged, even when Sokka and Katara's dialogue was clearly forced and rehearsed. Do these characters thrive on being unintelligent? Do the creators of this series believe that the audience will find such behavior entertaining?

Two other instances that were not quite as egregious as the above three, but still annoying, were that Haru's name was pronounced with too much emphasis on the second syllable ("Haru" is an actual Japanese name, and the second syllable is not stressed) and that Katara was _in the middle of the ocean_ yet did not bend any of the water at all. I understand that she is still developing her skill, but she could at least have made some effort in the battle that ensued. What does everyone else say? Are you ever annoyed when characters in a fictional work act in an unintelligent manner?



ReikaiDemon said:


> I felt this was appropriate



Is that Korra from the new series? Wow, I have only just started this series, and already a new series is being planned (although I suppose that such news should not be such a surprise, for it has already been five years since the series premiered and it is an immensely popular series). Regardless of that, that is a hilarious image, and I shall give you +rep for it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 14, 2010)

If you're already frustrated with Katara putting her the Gaang's safety at risk recklessly, have fun with the next 55 episodes. But, you know, in a properly written serial series characters have flaws.

But at this point in the series, she can barely waterbend with purpose. And that's with an ample and accessible water source. The water she'd need is over the side of a giant prison ship; she's not able to bend that adroitly yet.



DemonDragonJ said:


> ; third, the soldiers from the Fire Nation first though that Momo was earthbending and then failed to realize that the entire scenario was staged, even when Sokka and Katara's dialogue was clearly forced and rehearsed. Do these characters thrive on being unintelligent? Do the creators of this series believe that the audience will find such behavior entertaining?



I know, right? It's almost like that scene was exaggerated, as if for humorous effect.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 14, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching episode 6, and I have a question for the users of this forum: when watching a television series or movie or reading a book, have you ever become exasperated at how unintelligently the characters within that story were acting? I have felt that way numerous times, but this episode was particularly egregious; first, Katara openly revealed herself to Haru when there was absolutely no guarantee that he would be friendly to her; secondly, the trio bluntly stated aloud that they had seen Haru earth-bending when he denied any knowledge of such an event in a tone that suggested such activity was dangerous;


All three come from cultures where bending isn't really frowned upon or hidden (within the culture anyway) so they didn't understand. Plus, Haru isn't a fire-bender so he can immediately be trusted.  They are kids afterall.


> third, the soldiers from the Fire Nation first though that Momo was earthbending and then failed to realize that the entire scenario was staged, even when Sokka and Katara's dialogue was clearly forced and rehearsed.


This is done for comedy.


> Two other instances that were not quite as egregious as the above three, but still annoying were that Haru's name was pronounced with too much emphasis on the second syllable ("Haru" is an actual Japanese name, and the second syllable is not stressed)


Quite a number of the names are given American pronunciations because, after all, it is an American production for an American audience.


> and that Katara was _in the middle of the ocean_ yet did not bend any of the water at all. I understand that she is still developing her skill, but she could at least have made some effort in the battle that ensued.


Katara is still rather weak in controlled water-bending at this point. The water is also out of sight and rather far away (the prison is raised up quite a bit above the ocean).


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 14, 2010)

Honestly, does it make the show any better how names are pronounced?

It's a bit too superficial to matter.

It's like Shar said, it's an American show, so of course the foreign nouns would be Anglicized. The voice actors are of various backgrounds and talents. They can't all be Yuri Lowenthal.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 14, 2010)

Jove said:


> I know, right? It's almost like that scene was exaggerated, as if for humorous effect.



Well you know what Avatar Extras said.  Fire Nation's purpose is to make students into hard-bodied, weak-minded soldiers.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 14, 2010)

> ; third, the soldiers from the Fire Nation first though that Momo was earthbending and then failed to realize that the entire scenario was staged, even when Sokka and Katara's dialogue was clearly forced and rehearsed. Do these characters thrive on being unintelligent? Do the creators of this series believe that the audience will find such behavior entertaining?



SPOILER INSIDE! SORRY I FORGOT TO SPOILE TAG IT BEFORE LOL


*Spoiler*: __ 



Why wouldn't they think this wasn't staged?

There are animals In the Avatar world who can Earthbend. How could they tell a animal that was supposed to be extinct, couldn't Earthbend? 

I know I'd feel that way! lol
(but then again, I'd be concerned about a cat+money+bat thing really)


----------



## Mider T (Sep 14, 2010)

Shhh, Terra spoilers.  He's only on Book 1.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 14, 2010)

I was listening through my Avatar music collection today, and when I got to the music from Kyoshi's Escape from the Spirit World short, it really struck me how well-developed her character was, a shining example of mimesis. And in merely a few physical appearances.

*DemondragonJ, dont read further*


I kinda think they could totally make a Kyoshi mini-series. It could be totally hilarious. We know she has grandchildren, so give her a Sokka-like husband. She has such an Earthbender attitude; she's like Toph but more austere. This would fulfill a Tokka fantasy by proxy, too. I'd also like to see her relationship with Kuruk, because they are so fundamentally different in personality.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 14, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Shhh, Terra spoilers.  He's only on Book 1.


Oh! Sorry about that! Fixed it right up lol

@Jove:
MORE SPOILERS, DON'T GO FURTHER DemonDragon!


*Spoiler*: __ 




Grandchildren?

Did I just misread?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 14, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Oh! Sorry about that! Fixed it right up lol
> 
> @Jove:
> MORE SPOILERS, DON'T GO FURTHER DemonDragon!
> ...



Oh, dear. I meant to say daughter. In Avatar Extras, they noted that Kyoshi had a daughter named Koko. One of the girl's in Aang's harem during the Warriord of Kyoshi was named after her.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 14, 2010)

Jove said:


> Oh, dear. I meant to say daughter. In Avatar Extras, they noted that Kyoshi had a daughter named Koko. One of the girl's in Aang's harem during the Warriord of Kyoshi was named after her.



Oh I see.

I didn't catch the Extras.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 14, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Jove_ 



Spoiler tags, dost thou knoweth of their usage?

Seeing more descendants of previous avatars might be interesting. Though Toph belongs to Iroh, not Sokka.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 14, 2010)

So, what kind of Dere type is Toph?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 14, 2010)

I dislike being a late arrival to a series, for I must avoid conversations in which veteran watchers are engaging; I only hope that I remember to go back to this page and read the concealed text after I progress through the series.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 14, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> *Spoiler*: _Jove_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: _Shaidar_ 




Ewww!

You don't mean...Toph and...and Iroh, do ya! :amazed


----------



## Mider T (Sep 14, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> So, what kind of Dere type is Toph?



Type A Tsundere.  A bit of Bokkuko characteristics too.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 14, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Type A Tsundere.  A bit of Bokkuko characteristics too.


Ahaha, definately bokkuko, she did like protoToph after all...


----------



## Mider T (Sep 14, 2010)

It's another reason why I'm interested in hearing the Japanese dub


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> It's another reason why I'm interested in hearing the Japanese dub



There were a few on the Japanese Nick website a few weeks ago. Maybe they are still there...? Although the show never made it to the second season I believe, or so I was told. >.>


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 15, 2010)

The Japanese dub was awful, though. 


Dutch dub, however, was spot on.


----------



## Burke (Sep 15, 2010)

Yeah japan just gave all the girls squeaky voices and called it a day


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 15, 2010)

I've seen a clip or two, and Azula's voice does not fit _at all!_

She'd try and threaten me, and I'd just pinch her cheeks _Aw! aren't you just so cute!_


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 15, 2010)

Everything animated in japan has be ultra cute or it doesn't sell.

So the dub is fucking shit.


----------



## The Potential (Sep 15, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I dislike being a late arrival to a series, for I must avoid conversations in which veteran watchers are engaging; I only hope that I remember to go back to this page and read the concealed text after I progress through the series.



Welcome aboard fellow Avatar fan.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 15, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> *Spoiler*: _Shaidar_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: _Yep, keep moving, DemonDragonJ_ 



What's wrong with the Tiroph pairing? 
They shared tea, spent hours alone with each other, and dispensed advice, and Toph recognizes Iroh by earth-bending after that one encounter.


----------



## Wan (Sep 15, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> *Spoiler*: _Yep, keep moving, DemonDragonJ_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Um...I would hope Iroh's not into pedophilia...


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 15, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



In my mind, and thankfully as well as the creators', Iroh isn't a cradle robber.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 15, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> *Spoiler*: _Yep, keep moving, DemonDragonJ_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: _NO LOOKING!_ 




Because he's old and that would be pedophilia! 

And I still believe he has a wife, but left to protect Zuko 




(replies shortened to hide spoilers lol)
@Mordin:


@Dr:


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 15, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Maybe his wife died?


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 16, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe his wife died?




*Spoiler*: _MAJOR SPOILERS!_ 





I hope not. He would lose his son and his wife. 
*that episode made me cry! *


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 16, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> *Spoiler*: _MAJOR SPOILERS!_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



Might be possible that Iroh is a widower, though, before or after the Ba Sing Se seige is the question


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 16, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Might be possible that Iroh is a widower, though, before or after the Ba Sing Se seige is the question




*Spoiler*: _SPOILERS_ 




Don't say such things! 

Poor Iroh has suffered enough.  That poor old man. He lost too much. I hope he has a wife, or she's at least still alive just so his character has some happiness to his end.....


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 16, 2010)

I just watched the two "Winter Solstice" episodes, and I just learned that Commander Zhao is voiced by Jason Isaacs, the same actor who plays Lucius Malfoy in the _Harry Potter_ movies. I never realized that, because his voice as Zhao is so different from his normal voice, gruff instead of smooth, temperamental and angry instead of calm and suave.

In these episodes, Avatar Roku mentioned a comet whose power was harnessed by the fire lord Sozin over a century before the current events of the series. Regrettably, I know that the final episodes of this series are entitled _"Sozin's Comet"_ and that several years pass during the course of the series, yet Avatar Roku said that the comet would return in the summer following the current winter solstice, so is there a discrepancy of some form here, or should I simply wait and watch the series to learn what happens? I wish that I did not have that knowledge so early in the series, but being a late arrival to this series makes such spoilers nearly unavoidable.

I noticed that earth-benders and water-benders need to have a reliable source of either earth or water to use their bending abilities (because air is practically omnipresent, a lack of air for air-benders is usually not a problem), but fire-benders can apparently conjure fire from nothing and thus do not need a pre-existing fire to bend. Why is that? Is that not unbalanced and unfair, or does the fact that fire is never as abundant as the other elements balance that situation? I know that in the live-action movie, fire-benders needed external sources of flame, but many fans did not like that. What can anyone here say on that subject?


----------



## Mider T (Sep 16, 2010)

Several years don't pass.  Series started in Winter, ended in Summer.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 16, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In these episodes, Avatar Roku mentioned a comet whose power was harnessed by the fire lord Sozin over a century before the current events of the series. Regrettably, I know that the final episodes of this series are entitled _"Sozin's Comet"_ and that several years pass during the course of the series, yet Avatar Roku said that the comet would return in the summer following the current winter solstice, so is there a discrepancy of some form here, or should I simply wait and watch the series to learn what happens? I wish that I did not have that knowledge so early in the series, but being a late arrival to this series makes such spoilers nearly unavoidable.



Nope, it doesn't take place over several years. The entire series takes place in the time line Roku outlined. Roughly one year. 



> I noticed that earth-benders and water-benders need to have a reliable source of either earth or water to use their bending abilities (because air is practically omnipresent, a lack of air for air-benders is usually not a problem), but fire-benders can apparently conjure fire from nothing and thus do not need a pre-existing fire to bend. Why is that? Is that not unbalanced and unfair, or does the fact that fire is never as abundant as the other elements balance that situation? I know that in the live-action movie, fire-benders needed external sources of flame, but many fans did not like that. What can anyone here say on that subject?



Keep in mind that, unlike the other three elements, fire isn't matter. Water, Earth and air are all physical things, fire is energy. As Iroh explained in the first episode, firebenders essentially convert their internal energy (chi) into fire.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 16, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Several years don't pass.  Series started in Winter, ended in Summer.





stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Nope, it doesn't take place over several years. The entire series takes place in the time line Roku outlined. Roughly one year.



I see; I must have heard wrong or simply formed that idea when I heard that Aang's voice changes due to his actor's voice changing, Sokka becomes far more badass later, and certain characters' appearances change. So, the entire series occurs over the course of several months? That is a very short duration in which to have a series in which many events happen and the characters undergo great development; is that very realistic? I hope that the series does not feel rushed or poorly-executed as it reaches its conclusion, for I have seen too many good series ruined by a poorly-executed finale.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Keep in mind that, unlike the other three elements, fire isn't matter. Water, Earth and air are all physical things, fire is energy. As Iroh explained in the first episode, firebenders essentially convert their internal energy (chi) into fire.



Yes, that does make sense, and it also answers my next question: bending is a _chi/ki_-based ability? That would explain why Aang's eyes and tattoos glow bright white when he uses the Avatar's power.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 16, 2010)

As you move along with the series, you'll probably savor the more emphasis on the philosophy of bending that pops up every so often. There are a few episodes that expound upon it, and contains some of the more profound writing in the series.


As for the finale, it's one of the best finales ever made, fully realized and breathtaking. You need to let go of your reservations.


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## Muk (Sep 17, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I see; I must have heard wrong or simply formed that idea when I heard that Aang's voice changes due to his actor's voice changing, Sokka becomes far more badass later, and certain characters' appearances change. So, the entire series occurs over the course of several months? That is a very short duration in which to have a series in which many events happen and the characters undergo great development; is that very realistic? I hope that the series does not feel rushed or poorly-executed as it reaches its conclusion, for I have seen too many good series ruined by a poorly-executed finale.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that does make sense, and it also answers my next question: bending is a _chi/ki_-based ability? That would explain why Aang's eyes and tattoos glow bright white when he uses the Avatar's power.



go watch the serie, it won't disappoint

and about bending its based on chinese wushu


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## Muk (Sep 17, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> *Spoiler*: _SPOILERS_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



why are we spoiler tagging again? c ause of the new guy?


*Spoiler*: __ 




i think his wife is dead. else he would have brought her over after opening his tea shop. i mean we don't see him with his wife at all.

i think he's a widow, but i think he's over the fact that his wife is dead. but his son's death seems to hit him hardest

and i think Iroh would wait until toph is of age


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## Sedaiv (Sep 17, 2010)

Iroh's wife is most likely deceases as he spends 90% of his time with Zuko. Now after the war has ended, it's obvious that he spends his time at his tea shop in Ba Sing Se (SP?). 

Muk: The word you're looking for is "Widower" as "Widow" refers to a woman who has lost her husband, such as my mother, Jackie Kennedy, or Mary Lincoln. A Widower is a man who has lost his wife such as Byakuya Kuchiki, Isshin Kurosaki.

Remember this: The loss of a parent is hard, the pain you go through after losing a parent is servere, trust me I know. But the lost of a child is 100X harder, again: I almost died during my army days and as my friend Ralph put it, the pain I am going through with my dads death wis 100x greater if I had died.

Also the shows been over for some years now, don't put up spoiler tags seriously.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm not spoiler tagging, DDJ understands and spoiler tagging is unsightly. I'll just continue to say:

DEMONDRAGON J, DON'T LOOK!!!

and try to keep it basic.



I mean, the biggest indicator is that there's no woman with Iroh at the end. But keep in mind, animosity must still run deep at certain levels of the Fire Nation. A simply glance at recent history would suggest that there's probably a number of very important people that need to be deprogrammed. It's a reason I'm ambivalent towards the idea of a coda mini-series involving post-war rebuilding; it would be a great concept and could be pretty deep and meaningful, but I'm happy with the way the series ended.

Again, it all comes back to the main question: why didn't we get our Iroh mini? Why not answer the pressing concerns that we never got closure for in the main series. How are we supposed to infer how his connection to the Spirit World happened? How did a human manage to go there?


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## Superstarseven (Sep 17, 2010)

I would totally be for something that shows us the time period between the death of Lu Ten and his return to the Fire Nation. An animated series focusing on a man's literal Spiritual journey after the loss of his son would be absolutely groundbreaking for an American cartoon. Only thing would be convincing Nickelodeon to give up several weeks of a primetime slot to a show starring a man in his 60's. The premise sounds too emotional and mature for anything on that network.

What could work though is something for a market Nick hasn't entered into yet which is original content made for home video. I think that it could work as a 90 minute DTV (or OVA for you Anime fans). The average rate for the DCAU DTV films seem to be about $3.5 million so with that budget you can have some nice quality animation and probably supply The Track Team with an orchestra. I'd snap that up in a second.

This actually could work for any story M&B want to tell in that universe, provided that they're not done with that world after Korra airs.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 17, 2010)

Jove said:


> As for the finale, it's one of the best finales ever made, fully realized and breathtaking. You need to let go of your reservations.



Very few of the series that I have watched have had satisfying conclusions; those that have are few and far between, but I shall attempt to be open-minded about the finale for this series.

I just finished the next episode, and it was good that the trio finally found a scroll with water-bending techniques, from which Katara could learn, although both the fact that Aang learned to waterbend so quickly and easily, and that Katara was jealous of that fact, was very predictable to me, but I have seen that type of occurrence before; I imagine that a younger viewer would not have such familiarity.

I believe that Katara should not be so angry at the pace at which Aang was learning; he is the Avatar, after all, and his ability to learn water-bending answers two questions to which I have been seeking answers: first, Aang does not need to be using his power as the Avatar to bend more than one element; second, the avatar is not the only person who can bend more than one element, as Aang was clearly not in his Avatar state when he was learning water-bending.

I wish that Zuko would not be so impulsive and quick to anger, as that trait has now been problematic for him several times, and I also wish that he would heed his uncle’s advice more frequently. I particularly liked Iroh’s advice about the lotus tile from the game that he was playing; Zuko would have been wise to have heeded that advice, in my opinion.

Also in the episode, Zuko and Katara interacted directly for the first time, and after seeing that interaction, I wonder how some people can believe that they would be a good romantic match. I shall presume that Zuko’s relations with the heroes improve as time passes. I currently do not know what Zuko’s ultimate fate is at the end of the series, but I shall state right now that I would not at all be surprised if he eventually becomes an unwillingly ally of theirs, just as Vegeta and Seto Kaiba did to the heroes of their respective series.

I also am interested in why Zuko was banished from the Fire Nation, and I imagine that the reason for that is related to the origin of his burned face, although I certain that such information shall be revealed soon enough.

I liked how Sokka compensated for his lack of physical prowess by using guile and trickery to turn the pirates and Zuko against each other; that was very clever.

I noticed that when the pirates were sailing away with Zuko's boat, one of them turned around and put his hands on his pants; was he about to moon the people standing on the shore? It is a pity that _Nickelodoen,_ as I now may never know what that pirate was doing, although I can certainly imagine that he was doing so.

However, I am bothered that thus far, nearly every person from the Fire Nation is treated by both the main characters and the series itself as enemies. I understand the need for a clear antagonist in the series, and Zuko, Azula, Commander Zhao, and Fire Lord Ozai fill that role, but surely not _everyone_ in the Fire Nation is evil or militaristic? And surely not everyone who is not a member of the Fire Nation is heroic? Hopefully, as the series progresses, I shall see that a person’s nationality/political affiliation is not an indicator of their alignment _(Dungeons & Dragons_ terminology).

I also have noticed that a cabbage merchant has appeared on occasion, and that his stand is wrecked every time that he appears. I wonder if he shall ever be significant to the plot in the future, or if he is a joke character the way that Pandaman in _One Piece_ is?

For the purposes of earth-bending, what is considered to be "earth?" Is it only stone and sand, or is soil also applicable? Why is metal not considered "earth?" Because is has been artificially altered? Can a water-bender use their own body's fluids for their ability? I imagine that that would be useful if there was no external source of water present.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 17, 2010)

I wish I could go further beyond telling you "keep watching," but that's really the most accurate thing I can say.

As for treating _every_ Fire Nation citizen as an enemy... they are immersed in total war, and most people, especially from the Water Tribe, have no experience with the Fire Nation beyond warfare. Again, keep watching, but for now they're entirely logical feelings. But neither Aang nor the series, at this point in the show, treat the Fire Nation as malicious. At this point, pretty much the only Fire Nation we've even seen are the antagonists and army folk.


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## Burke (Sep 17, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Very few of the series that I have watched have had satisfying conclusions; those that have are few and far between, but I shall attempt to be open-minded about the finale for this series.
> 
> I just finished the next episode, and it was good that the trio finally found a scroll with water-bending techniques, from which Katara could learn, although both the fact that Aang learned to waterbend so quickly and easily, and that Katara was jealous of that fact, was very predictable to me, but I have seen that type of occurrence before; I imagine that a younger viewer would not have such familiarity.
> 
> ...



Since when do Zutarians follow logic and reason?


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 17, 2010)

Well, Aang not only masters waterbending easily because he is the Avatar, but it's also because Airbending is a yin style, as is Waterbending.

However, only Avatars have the capacity to bend more than one element, they do not have to be in the Avatar State to do so.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 17, 2010)

Well, keep in mind that at this point in the series (I believe Chapter 9) the Avatar State is just an enigmatic quirk. I could see that misinterpretation possibly arising.


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## Burke (Sep 17, 2010)

Jove said:


> Well, keep in mind that at this point in the series (I believe Chapter 9) the Avatar State is just an enigmatic quirk. I could see that misinterpretation possibly arising.



Oh yeah, by episode nine its just like... "Why are his eyes blue  "


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## Level7N00b (Sep 17, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe his wife died?




*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm under the impression that as the Crown Prince, Iroh was married off to some noblewoman. But she died somewhere along the way. Iroh flirts a few times in the series, so he is very likely single. 






DemonDragonJ said:


> I noticed that earth-benders and water-benders need to have a reliable source of either earth or water to use their bending abilities (because air is practically omnipresent, a lack of air for air-benders is usually not a problem), but fire-benders can apparently conjure fire from nothing and thus do not need a pre-existing fire to bend. Why is that? Is that not unbalanced and unfair, or does the fact that fire is never as abundant as the other elements balance that situation? I know that in the live-action movie, fire-benders needed external sources of flame, but many fans did not like that. What can anyone here say on that subject?



That would actually be worse. Finding water is a lot easier than finding a source of fire, so it is actually more balanced that they are able to create fire, and not need an already existing source.


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## Terra Branford (Sep 17, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm under the impression that as the Crown Prince, Iroh was married off to some noblewoman. But she died somewhere along the way. Iroh flirts a few times in the series, so he is very likely single.




*Spoiler*: _:O_ 





I always found his flirting the gentleman's kind, and most of his flirting was done to get them someplace. I think that would call for some flirting, doncha think?


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 18, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> Since when do Zutarians follow logic and reason?



What is a "Zutarian," and are they reputed for not being logical or reasonable?



ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, Aang not only masters waterbending easily because he is the Avatar, but it's also because Airbending is a yin style, as is Waterbending.
> 
> However, only Avatars have the capacity to bend more than one element, they do not have to be in the Avatar State to do so.



I am new to this series, so please forgive me if I sound obstinate, but if Aang does not need to be in his Avatar state to bend more than one element, what reason is there that other people cannot bend more than one element? Have the creators of the series ever commented on this subject?

This series is aimed at children, so it can never become too violent, but could a fire-bender cause a person to spontaneously combust from within, an air-bender vacuum out the air from a person's lungs and asphyxiate them, or a water bender either dehydrate a person or cause the person's blood to explode from their body?

Even if such violence cannot be shown, I am glad that this series allows use of words such as "death," "die," and "kill," for far too many children's series today do not allow such words (the worst offenders by far being _Power Rangers),_ nor does the series avoid the concepts of war and death in general. I like that, for it appeals to me as an older watcher.

As for my earlier question, I just watched the episode in which Jet appeared for the first time, and i was very glad that Jet and his group were not automatically good because they opposed the Fire Nation, nor was the old man automatically evil because he was from the Fire Nation. I thought that Jet was quite a nice person when he first appeared, as did Aang and Katara, but as soon as he attacked the elderly man, I knew his true character, as did Sokka, so I am very glad that not all morality is "black-and-white" in this series.


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## SuperCoolCola (Sep 18, 2010)

i luuuv avatar the last air bender,but the movie was horrible >.<


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## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

Some of things you see DDJ...I think you've seen spoilers

Zutara refers to shippers of Zuko and Katara in a romantic sense

And "dead" is used in the series.  Previously, that wasn't allowed on Nick until around 2003 (Spongebob was the first series to use it, and hilariously so).  I can't remember if "killed" "die" or "death" is but it's possibly since Avatar is TV-14 IIRC


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 18, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Some of things you see DDJ...I think you've seen spoilers



Yes, I unfortunately know several things about this series that do not occur until later, but how did you know that I knew those things?


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## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

You're comments, they're dangerously close to future events.

Did you read my other points, btw?


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is a "Zutarian," and are they reputed for not being logical or reasonable?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They touched upon it in the promotional material, like the trading  cards, a well known evil water bender manipulated the water in people's  stomachs. Canonical veracity is understandably in question.

Bending is complex, as for a bender with multiple bending styles, it may  have to do with the Avatar's spirit being "pliable", as bending is  closely tied to the mind and spirit. It is a question of compatibility.

The Avatar is the only being that can bend all elements, that is known so far.

I'm afraid this is as close as I can explain it without going into spoiler territory, so, just keep watching


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## Superstarseven (Sep 18, 2010)

Mider T said:


> .  I can't remember if "killed" "die" or "death" is but it's possibly since Avatar is TV-14 IIRC



Wow, if Avatar were TV-14 you'd be seeing blood, burned flesh, cut limbs and dead bodies.
It's only rated TV-Y7-FV though.
That's the same rating as Ben 10:Alien Force, Teen Titans and surprisingly, The Marvelous Misadventures Of Flapjack.


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## Buskuv (Sep 18, 2010)

Avatar is TV Y7, bro.


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## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

I learned something today /kyle


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Wow, if Avatar were TV-14 you'd be seeing blood, burned flesh, cut limbs and dead bodies.
> It's only rated TV-Y7-FV though.
> That's the same rating as Ben 10:Alien Force, Teen Titans and surprisingly, The Marvelous Misadventures Of Flapjack.


Speaking of Ben 10, I think they ruined it with Alien Force, and definitely soiled it irreversibly with Ultimate Alien.


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## Buskuv (Sep 18, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I learned something today /kyle




*Spoiler*: __ 



It really shouldn't be; either FCC watchdogs are really thick, or they're being lax on it.  Episodes like the Bloodbending one would barely qualify as TV PG, let alone Y7


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## Superstarseven (Sep 18, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Avatar is TV Y7, bro.



Thanks, I was starting to doubt myself before I checked but it's definitely TV-Y7-FV.

FV of course meaning Fantasy Violence which Avatar has tons of.

Oh also, guys, check out Sym-bionic Titans. Looks like Genndy Tartakovsky has himself another winner.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

And again, TV-7 is perfectly acceptable. One of the reasons a show like Avatar can resonate, certainly with me more than other insufferably canonized shows like The Wire or Mad Men, is that being a "kid's show" allow for a much greater clarity of concepts and ethos. They aren't allowed to be too abstruse, but artistic impulse in Avatar's case) prevents them from being to explicit, either.

Avatar was a great balance. It treated it's characters not as impeccable, nor as one-dimensional archetypes; they were layered, and if they were archetypes it was in a monomythic sense. 

As for why only the Avatar can bend multiple elements, that's simple. The Avatar is the bridge between the corporeal world and the Spirit World. Only he possesses that connection, so while everyone else only harbors a spiritual connection to their element, he carries a spiritual connection to everything. He very literally exists to keep balance between the world.

If I recall correctly, the creators described it as an inhibitor of sorts that prevents anyone else from bending more than one. And thankfully, this isn't a Bleach-type "surpass the boundaries and evolve" situation.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> As for why only the Avatar can bend multiple elements, that's simple. The Avatar is the bridge between the corporeal world and the Spirit World. Only he possesses that connection, so while everyone else only harbors a spiritual connection to their element, he carries a spiritual connection to everything. He very literally exists to keep balance between the world.
> 
> If I recall correctly, the creators described it as an inhibitor of sorts that prevents anyone else from bending more than one. And thankfully, this isn't a Bleach-type "surpass the boundaries and evolve" situation.



If only the Avatar can bend more than one element, is that not completely unfair to all other characters? Once Aang masters all the elements, how will any opponent be able to face him in battle without being defeated easily?

And what is wrong with _Bleach's_ "surpass the boundaries and evolve" situation? I like that type of attitude; never giving up or surrendering no matter what the obstacles are, being able to surpass one's own power to overcome anything that is restricting one's self.


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## Piekage (Sep 18, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If only the Avatar can bend more than one element, is that not completely unfair to all other characters? Once Aang masters all the elements, how will any opponent be able to face him in battle without being defeated easily?



That's actually a frequently debated topic amoungst Avatar fans; is it ok for the Avatar alone to wield such power? 

Odds are, no person in the Avatarverse can face a fully realized Avatar in battle and win. But odds are if they're opposing the Avatar or trying to fight him, then they're agenda isn't in the best interest of anyone else. 


DemonDragonJ said:


> And what is wrong with _Bleach's_ "surpass the boundaries and evolve" situation? I like that type of attitude; never giving up or surrendering no matter what the obstacles are, being able to surpass one's own power to overcome anything that is restricting one's self.



Because it wouldn't make sense in a show like Avatar. The "one element per bender" rule is an established rule within the show, and breaking the shows internal logic like that hurts the show's integrity. Besides, there are plenty of ways to show resolve and determination without giving a character even more power ups.

In Bleach, power ups seem to come out of nowhere with little to no build up and surprising frequency. To date Ichigo's had 5 powerups. That seems like an awful lot, especially since each one is hyped up to be the best thing ever and next arc it's like he's back to square one. At least with something like Naruto it makes sense; Nine Tails = Nine potential forms, or with DBZ, and Vegeta hyping the "super saiyan" a while before Goku becomes one, and even then it's still a powerful form well into the Cell Saga. This is just my opinion of course, and I could be mistaken with some things.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If only the Avatar can bend more than one element, is that not completely unfair to all other characters? Once Aang masters all the elements, how will any opponent be able to face him in battle without being defeated easily?
> 
> And what is wrong with _Bleach's_ "surpass the boundaries and evolve" situation? I like that type of attitude; never giving up or surrendering no matter what the obstacles are, being able to surpass one's own power to overcome anything that is restricting one's self.




Well, for one thing it's hackneyed and a hoax of dreadful writing, at least in Bleach's case. Avatar eclipses all these things by presenting character growth in a organic way. No one powers up in Avatar just because they want to; they either figure things out or they earn it.

Of course, the specific problem with _Bleach's situation_ is that it is superficial and, even apart from all the memes, trollish.


The reason only the Avatar can wield that power is because, as Piekage says, the Avatar universe's internal logic depends upon it. If you devise a world, you can't reconstruct it just to fit your plot turns (as in, for instance... Bleach!). The balance of the Avatar world dictates this, _depends_ upon it, and it's not negotiable. I suppose this isn't a spoiler, since it's not integral to the plot, but the Avatar did not exist forever in that world. He exists for a reason, and it's beyond human control.

So as for fairness... yes, in a fictional sense it's totally unfair and the writers/creators certainly gave themselves a hurdle. But they're adept writers and manage it well, and continue to do so.

And it's not _entirely_ unfair. An elite bender in a specific discipline can hold ground against an Avatar, at least for a little while. Fighting in Avatar isn't just power levels. You'll see characters better opponents that on paper they shouldn't; like real life, things such as mental focus, fatigue, and strategy all work in cohesion with fighting ability. 

Now, as for an Avatar in the Avatar State... that's quite a bit different, but it's not all gloom for a regular bender. The Avatar State is complex. You'll learn more about that pretty soon.


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## Deweze (Sep 18, 2010)

avatar rated MA would be mindblowing


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## Buskuv (Sep 18, 2010)

Not really.

I don't see how copious amounts of blood or sex would add anything to the series.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

I mean, for me... I had a problem with them even introducing Bloodbending into the show. It was just too far, opened up too many unwelcome possibilities.


The context's just not right. Conversely I wouldn't expect a Y-7 or Y-14 version of _Boardwalk Empire_ to be any more enlightening, even if it was written to the standards of _Avatar_.


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## Burke (Sep 18, 2010)

So your a fan of boardwalk empire jove?
Any good?


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

I don't know, actually. I just needed a gritty drama to reference. It certainly _looks_ worthy.


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## Level7N00b (Sep 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> I mean, for me... I had a problem with them even introducing Bloodbending into the show. It was just too far, opened up too many unwelcome possibilities.
> 
> 
> The context's just not right. Conversely I wouldn't expect a Y-7 or Y-14 version of _Boardwalk Empire_ to be any more enlightening, even if it was written to the standards of _Avatar_.



I know what you mean. When Hama dubbed it, it kinda just gave a seriously creepy vibe to the entire episode. And even Katara said it was freaky.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

Bleach's power up crap is trite...

And the Avatar being able to bend all the elements is as unfair as  military personnel being allowed to use guns civilians can't. The Avatar  is a guardian of sorts.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Bloodbending, I deem, is all filler. Even that one episode with the character development for Katara.


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## Prowler (Sep 18, 2010)

worst movie of the decade, right here.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 18, 2010)

This thread is for the show, not the movie.


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## Buskuv (Sep 18, 2010)

Prowler said:


> worst movie of the decade, right here.



Begone, you.

Shoo.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 18, 2010)

Well, Prowler is right. The movie was terrible. It actually serves as a perfect example of how to do everything wrong with an adaptation. 

The show on the other hand is fantastic.


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## Buskuv (Sep 18, 2010)

I'm not disagreeing, but we already had like a hundred pages on it.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

Sooo....How bout dem Badgermoles?


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## Level7N00b (Sep 18, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Sooo....How bout dem Badgermoles?



It's all about the dragons. That's where the sauce is.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

If I had to rank my top 10 favorite hybrid animals, it would go:

*10. Otter Penguin*


*9. Elephant Koi*


*8. Rabbaroo's*


*7. Saber-tooth Moose-Lion*


*6. Otter Koala*


*5. Turtle Seals*


*4. Toucan Puffins*


*3. Badgermoles*


*2. Turtle Ducks* (a requisite top 3 for any Avatarling)




*1. Sparrow-keets*





Obviously, Sky Bison, Flying Lemurs, and Dragon Hawks are exempt and above such rankings.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

I dunno why I keep rootin' for the Ba Sing Se Badgermoles, half the team is blind.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

The Avatar World totally needs professional sports. Imagine the home field advantage Omashu would have.


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## Deweze (Sep 18, 2010)

Remember when they seen a bear, lol


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

The Capital City Dragon Hawks sure have been cleaning up ever since that got that new hurler from Shu Jing


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## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

Why did the kids find a bear so weird but not a hawk?


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Why did the kids find a bear so weird but not a hawk?


Because Hawky was a Dragon Hawk.


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## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

Was he?  Source?


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

Hawky was _the_ Dragon Hawk.


VPS


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## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

> Dragon Hawks are one of the few non-hybrid animals in the series along with Bosco, Miyuki, and wood frogs



Even more confusing.  And who is Miyuki?


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

Miyuki was The Herbalist's cat.

And the trivia thing on the wikia is unreliable. Of course Dragon Hawks are hybrids. They don't cite things fully, and it technically doesn't exist anymore, but this was on Nick.com's Avatar page. That's where we found out that Hawky was living on the Bei Fong Estate.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

Refresh my memory...who's the Herbalist again?

And I wasn't aware that Hawky is living on the Bei Fong estate...or how he even found it.  Any other trivia?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Refresh my memory...who's the Herbalist again?
> 
> And I wasn't aware that Hawky is living on the Bei Fong estate...or how he even found it.  Any other trivia?



The Herbalist was the woman who helped Aang during The Blue Spirit and told him about the frozen frogs.


No one really knows _how_ Hawky found Gaoling or the BF Estate. Well, besides this thread who understand that Hawky can do anything. 

Hawky showed incredible intelligence, bonding with Sokka and seemingly understanding his speech.

Awwwww, I miss Hawky. He should have been Sokka's foil for the rest of the series.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

Blue Spirit episode never sticks to my memory for one reason or another.  Dunno why either, it was a good episode.

And Sokka is destined to lose everything he loves.  Hawky, Yue, his Boomerang, his Space Sword, his Cactus Juice...it just isn't fair


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

Aang could totally use the Avatar State and his Earthbending sense to find Space Sword.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> Aang could totally use the Avatar State and his Earthbending sense to find Space Sword.


That's interesting, could an Avatar practically be omnipotent if he or she goes into the Avatar State, and use the earthbending sense to feel the ENTIRE WORLD?


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 18, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That's interesting, could an Avatar practically be omnipotent if he or she goes into the Avatar State, and use the earthbending sense to feel the ENTIRE WORLD?



I don't know if that would make them _omnipotent_...


----------



## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

I still say someone in Korra is going to find it lol


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I don't know if that would make them _omnipotent_...



Oh Boskov, you know what Rekky meant. 

I knew Rekky would see that I was only half-joking. With that power enhanced by the Avatar State, an Avatar could at the very least have an incredible detailed vision of a _very_ large area. 

Cool subplot: Ba Sing Se. A Long Feng type sweet talks an Avatar with persuasive political arguments, and tricks an Avatar into using that power to essentially spy on the entirety of Ba Sing Se, literally knowing what everyone is doing at all times.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 18, 2010)

Avatar wouldn't stand for those kind of shenanigans.

Though, in pure theory, what's to stop the Avatar from being corrupted on a personal level?  Basically, using his powers to control the world however he sees fit; it's not a huge stretch, considering each and every Avatar is simply another person, with the destiny of being able to bend, and trained, in each of the four elements.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> Oh Boskov, you know what Rekky meant.
> 
> I knew Rekky would see that I was only half-joking. With that power enhanced by the Avatar State, an Avatar could at the very least have an incredible detailed vision of a _very_ large area.
> 
> Cool subplot: Ba Sing Se. A Long Feng type sweet talks an Avatar with persuasive political arguments, and tricks an Avatar into using that power to essentially spy on the entirety of Ba Sing Se, literally knowing what everyone is doing at all times.


Though, I think with Earthbending sense, it would be useful for inanimate objects and such, since Aang can already sense living things through that spiritual connection thing.

There's probably safeguards for a corrupt Avatar, possibly possession.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> Aang could totally use the Avatar State and his Earthbending sense to find Space Sword.



I think it it highly improbable that Sokka used that entire meteorite to forge his space sword.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

I bet the Space Sword left a crater when it landed.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 18, 2010)

I just finished _The Great Divide,_ and while I was not surprised to see two tribes with a century-long feud, I was moderately surprised at the origin of the feud and how a simple ball game could be distorted into a bitter rivalry, but then I was _very_ surprised to learn that Aang made that story so that he could placate the tribes. It seems that the true story of the feud will remain unknown, but perhaps that is the best solution, for it adds an element of mystery to the situation.

I noticed that the scout from the Gan Jin tribe was voiced by the same actor as Robin from the _Teen Titans_ animated series, but I wish that he had lowered his voice, for his character was an adult but had the voice of an adolescent. Who was the actress for the leader of the Zhang tribe? Her voice sounded familiar to me.

I liked the canyon crawlers very much; some of the animals thus far in the series have been too silly for my liking, but the canyon crawlers were awesome.

Someone mentioned that they would like to see a _TV MA_-rated version of this series, and while I am not certain that this franchise needs to have more violence or sexual content, I would greatly appreciate it not having so much silly or ridiculous content. In both this series, and other western animated series, I am sorry to say that I have seen far more immature and unintelligent arguing, name-calling, and bickering than what I see in Japanese animation. I believe that this series could be far better if it contained less childish emotions and more battling or plot development.

And while I am on that subject, I notice that several users several pages ago mentioned that they did not like the Japanese dub of this series; that is interesting to hear, because I have heard many people (on this forum and elsewhere) say that they do not like the English dubs of Japanese animation. It seems to me that the best solution here is to always watch a television series in its native language, which is what I do; I _always_ watch Japanese animation in it original Japanese language, I am watching _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ in its original English language, and when I eventually watch _Amelie_ and _Pan's Labyrinth,_ I shall watch them in _their_ native languages (French and Spanish, respectively).

One other thing that I do not like about this series is that while bending is very impressive, it is thus far the only supernatural/magical power that has been shown to exist in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender;_ I would like it if other forms of supernatural power existed, as well, to add greater depth and diversity to the series. What does everyone else say about that?


----------



## Mider T (Sep 18, 2010)

That guy has been voicing cartoons for a long time.  His voice hasn't changed since a 1991 episode of Rugrats IIRC, he also used to be the narrator for Jetix.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 18, 2010)

Mider T said:


> That guy has been voicing cartoons for a long time.  His voice hasn't changed since a 1991 episode of Rugrats IIRC, he also used to be the narrator for Jetix.



As true as that may be, it was still very odd to hear an adult speaking with a voice that seemed more appropriate for an adolescent.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished _The Great Divide,_ and while I was not surprised to see two tribes with a century-long feud, I was moderately surprised at the origin of the feud and how a simple ball game could be distorted into a bitter rivalry, but then I was _very_ surprised to learn that Aang made that story so that he could placate the tribes. It seems that the true story of the feud will remain unknown, but perhaps that is the best solution, for it adds an element of mystery to the situation.
> 
> I noticed that the scout from the Gan Jin tribe was voiced by the same actor as Robin from the _Teen Titans_ animated series, but I wish that he had lowered his voice, for his character was an adult but had the voice of an adolescent. Who was the actress for the leader of the Zhang tribe? Her voice sounded familiar to me.
> 
> ...


All I have to say is, keep watching before you make up your mind about things.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 18, 2010)

You can't really blame a show intentionally aimed a children, and featuring surprisingly realistic _children_ protagonists for having some childish humor.  I'd also like to point out that much of the humor is layered, and often character driven, much like the show.  It would seem out of place, and much less interesting, if the characters were more serious and solely focused on trying to plagiarize Final Fantasy.

The series strikes a balance of being accessible to more people without pandering to anyone.  It's more mature than most anime, in the sense that it has actual character development, and a coherent plot.  Making things darker, stupidly violent or sleazy doesn't make it better, or mature--quite the opposite, in a lot of cases.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 19, 2010)

You'll see more Airbending slices as the show goes on.
Also, there's not too much Aang could do when bound besides run super quickly and blow people away with his mouth. As a fully realized Avatar, Aang would be able to do much more. Stay tuned.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 19, 2010)

He's also completely opposed to killing; he says so several times as early as the first few episodes.  He only uses violence when necessary.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 19, 2010)

If he wanted, he could probably suck all the air out of his enemies lungs.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 19, 2010)

Like I said, this is why I really had a problem with Bloodbending. I can tolerate it, since it was an interesting risk (unlike the totally baseless risk the took with _that_ episode), but it opens up these conceptual ideas, taking bending much farther than it should.

Because of bloodbending all the outlandish ideas people had, where they extrapolated each discipline to each conceivable property, were validated. It's interesting because it acknowledged the potential excess and frightening nature of bending, but still... creeps me out.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 19, 2010)

Halloween Episode.

Network obligations are a bitch.


----------



## Burke (Sep 19, 2010)

Curse them for taking advanage of avatars version of filler that was the beginning of the third season!


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 19, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In _The Great Divide,_ Aang bent a razor-thin stream of air to slice a fruit in half for Momo and Appa, but why had he never done that before? Doing so would have been immensely useful, especially when his arms were bound in the first episode.
> 
> (Wow, this is the shortest post that I have made in this thread, thus far!)



Airbending philosophy teaches that all life, even the smallest insect is sacred. And Aang takes it very seriously. Hell, he doesn't even eat meat! He usually avoids, evades, blocks, and restrains. He hardly ever outright attacks his enemies with all he has.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 19, 2010)

Plus, given how bending works,_ it might not even be possible for Aang to hurt someone with Airbending_


----------



## Mider T (Sep 19, 2010)

What do you mean by hurt?  His airblasts knock people out when they hit the walls.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 19, 2010)

Well, consider that harming people grievously is so against Aang's principles, that his airbending might conk out before he could kill someone.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 19, 2010)

Airbending can very likely kill. Look at Gyatso, he was kicking ass and taking names, judging by the bodies around his corpse.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 19, 2010)

I have a hard time accepting that airbending can do much. Again, I abhor bloodbending. Every theoretically possible use of bending, based on the element, now gets far more credence than it deserves.

Even bloodbending is severely limited; once a month, and only by the most elite water benders.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 19, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Airbending can very likely kill. Look at Gyatso, he was kicking ass and taking names, judging by the bodies around his corpse.


Yes, airbending could be potentially lethal, but Aang himself still doesn't have a hard enough heart to do it.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 19, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Yes, airbending could be potentially lethal, but Aang himself still doesn't have a hard enough heart to do it.



Tell that to the Buzzard-Wasp.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 19, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Airbending can very likely kill. Look at Gyatso, he was kicking ass and taking names, judging by the bodies around his corpse.



That's pretty conclusive, and graphic, evidence.  A dozen fire nation skeletons around an airbender makes it pretty obvious that they can, and will, given the right circumstances, kill fairly easily.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 19, 2010)

Alright well according to the series bible - 



> While Airbending is the most dynamic of the Bending Arts, it lacks a deadly finishing move. This fact reflects principles of the Air Nomads, which teach that all life is precious and conflict should be avoided whenever possible.



It would be interesting to know how exactly those Fire Nation soldiers died around him and how Gyatso finally came to his end as well. The implications of the Air Nomad genocide is pretty horrible when you really think of it. All of Aang's pals either speared or burned to death. I also imagine that the Nurseries were just burned rather than killing the infants and toddlers one by one. It most likely had to be done by the most ruthless firebender in the ranks.

It'd be interesting also to know how long it took until the last known Air nomad was taken down. It's not insane to think that anyone seen or known to have aided or abetted an Air nomad was put to death as an example. No reason to ship them back all the way to the Fire Nation to imprison them. Lots left unsaid in the series which is why I hope Mike & Bryan do something similar in the future to what Greg Weisman (creator of Gargoyles) does which is answer burning questions from the fans on a website.


----------



## Noah (Sep 19, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Alright well according to the series bible -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sokka has already explained this.

Airbending SLICE!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 20, 2010)

I just finished episode twelve, and at last, Zuko's backstory is explained. I strongly suspected that he had had a disagreement of some form with his father, but now I know the details. He appeared to be younger in that flashback, and I see that he had more hair, as well. What happened to the rest of his hair? Why is it gone? Did he shave it, or did it burn away? It was rather surprising seeing Zuko being younger and more idealistic than his current self: bitter and full of resentment and anger, and I was even more surprised to see that he decided to allow Aang to escape so that he ensure the safety of his ship and crew. This episode was the first episode that allowed the audience to sympathize with Zuko by showing that he has great tragedy in his past.

I also liked how more information about Aang's past was revealed, including how he came to be trapped in the ice where Katara and Sokka found him. An even better aspect of the episode was that it alternated between Aang and Zuko's pasts, allowing the audience to see how they were very different, yet very similar at the same time. Aang learning to not dwell on the past and instead focus on the present and future was also very pleasing to see.

This episode is the first one in which Fire Lord Ozai appeared, but his face was not shown, and only one or two lines spoken by him were heard. I see that he is a very mysterious character at this moment, although he could rival Gendo Ikari from _Neon Genesis Evangelion_ in terms of having mutual enmity with his son (although not equal or surpass, because in my mind, no father/son enmity will ever equal that of Shinji and Gendo Ikari). I also noticed that Azula appeared for the first time, in the flashback. First-time watchers would not know who she was, but this series has been around for five years now, so I knew who she was at a first glance, and I also noticed that she bore a rather sadistic grin on her face. From both that and what I have heard about her, I believe that it is safe for me to presume that she is fond of causing pain and is overall a very malevolent person. I cannot wait to see and Ozai appear in the present storyline. I just wonder how Iroh can be so different from the rest of his family: laid-back and compassionate rather than strict and merciless.

I notice that the Avatar is always said to keep peace and balance in the world, but what if an Avatar wished to conquer the world instead? What if the Avatar was a brutal tyrant, like Ozai (or, even better, if Ozai was the Avatar; or better still, what if Azula were the Avatar)? What if the Avatar decided that the best way to bring about peace and balance was to subjugate all the peoples of the world and have themselves be the one who decides the definitions of "peace" and "balance?" Would that be an interesting plot twist, an idea of a different sort of conflict around which to build a story? In my opinion, that would be such an awesome idea for the new series, although it seems to me that Korra will be the main hero of that series, regrettably.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 20, 2010)

The only place Zuko is unable to grow hair is around his scar.  Also, that day changed him.  Notice the parallels between Zuko and Aang's stories?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 20, 2010)

As far as I see, sympathy for Zuko was sown right in Chapter 3, but The Storm certainly was the first direct instance.

It's been brought up quite a bit, the idea of an evil or misguided Avatar. I believe that there is an inherent impasse that prevents an Avatar from following this path, related to the deep spiritual connection the Avatar has with the Earth, the Spirit World, and his/her past lives.

It would be an interesting idea, but I'd be more intrigued by the concept of an Avatar that is unable to reach his/her potential due to such a thing, not an Avatar that is amoral or immoral.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 20, 2010)

Mider T said:


> The only place Zuko is unable to grow hair is around his scar.  Also, that day changed him.  Notice the parallels between Zuko and Aang's stories?



If Zuko can still grow hair on the top of his head, why did he shave it? Is it related to his pursuit of the Avatar?

And yes, I did notice the parallels between Aang and Zuko, and I even said as much in my previous post.


----------



## Burke (Sep 20, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If Zuko can still grow hair on the top of his head, why did he shave it? Is it related to his pursuit of the Avatar?
> 
> And yes, I did notice the parallels between Aang and Zuko, and I even said as much in my previous post.



Eh, i always figured it was a style choice


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 20, 2010)

I am watching the episode _The Blue Spirit_ currently, and in the scene where Zhao was speaking to Shinu, I did hear a similarity in Jason Isaacs' (Zhao's actor) voice to his (Isaacs') normal voice, and he is very skilled to be able to suppress his English accent and sound almost like an American.

I have also been wondering something else: why do the people of Katara and Sokka's tribe have dark skin when they live in a region of the world that is cold and has little sunlight, yet the people of the Fire Nation have very fair skin, despite living close to the equator of the world? I understand that the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is not our world, but it still is rather interesting to me.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 20, 2010)

The poles of our planet don't necessarily have little sunlight--they shift between almost constant darkness and almost constant sunlight.  As for the reasoning, I don't know about the Fire Nation, but the Water Tribe designs were based off of the  people, who do have dark skin, while living in the Artic regions of our planet.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 20, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> The poles of our planet don't necessarily have little sunlight--they shift between almost constant darkness and almost constant sunlight.  As for the reasoning, I don't know about the Fire Nation, but the Water Tribe designs were based off of the  people, who do have dark skin, while living in the Artic regions of our planet.



Yes, I did suspect that the Water Tribe was based off the Inuit, so I shall accept that as an explanation for the situation.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 20, 2010)

The Fire Nation seem to be based off the Chinese, from what I can see.


----------



## Burke (Sep 20, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> The Fire Nation seem to be based off the Chinese, from what I can see.



I would say japanese.
The earth kingdom reminds me more of the chinese.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 20, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> The Fire Nation seem to be based off the Chinese, from what I can see.



Yes, I surmised that, as well.

I just finished watching _The Blue Spirit,_ and I see that the relationship between Aang and Zuko has become more complex, with the two of them having fought the same enemy together. The dynamics between the two of them actually some of the best that I have seen since Goku and Vegeta in _Dragon Ball,_ like a better-executed version of Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry from _Naruto,_ although that does not mean that Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry is poorly-executed.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 20, 2010)

The Fire Nation are, like the other nations, an amalgam of several different historical societies, but Imperial Japan, and, philosophically, Imperial England, are definitely the most prominent.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 20, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Tell that to the Buzzard-Wasp.


It's hasn't been confirmed whether or not that thing died.


Superstarseven said:


> Alright well according to the series bible -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bare hands? Or maybe repeated strikes smothered them.



DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished episode twelve, and at last, Zuko's backstory is explained. I strongly suspected that he had had a disagreement of some form with his father, but now I know the details. He appeared to be younger in that flashback, and I see that he had more hair, as well. What happened to the rest of his hair? Why is it gone? Did he shave it, or did it burn away? It was rather surprising seeing Zuko being younger and more idealistic than his current self: bitter and full of resentment and anger, and I was even more surprised to see that he decided to allow Aang to escape so that he ensure the safety of his ship and crew. This episode was the first episode that allowed the audience to sympathize with Zuko by showing that he has great tragedy in his past.
> 
> I also liked how more information about Aang's past was revealed, including how he came to be trapped in the ice where Katara and Sokka found him. An even better aspect of the episode was that it alternated between Aang and Zuko's pasts, allowing the audience to see how they were very different, yet very similar at the same time. Aang learning to not dwell on the past and instead focus on the present and future was also very pleasing to see.
> 
> ...


He's just shaved.

Dunno why, perhaps it's could signify his exiled status, but he kept his knot to still show he is allied with the Fire Nation.

Or it's that whole, bald is evil thing.


Level7N00b said:


> The Fire Nation seem to be based off the Chinese, from what I can see.





N??ps said:


> I would say japanese.
> The earth kingdom reminds me more of the chinese.


They're broad enough to represent both of those interpretations. Another interpretation is that each nation is like a different era or ethnic group of China.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 20, 2010)

That's a subtle beauty in Avatar; since it's hard to exactly place the nations, it becomes a more broad statement on humanity and politics in general, unhindered by specific critique.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> As for the platypus-bear, I find that be a very bizarre combination of creatures; even if such animals are common in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ then there must still be what we would consider normal animals, for why else would it be called a "platypus-bear" if there were not bears or platypuses in their world? If neither of those animals existed, then the playtpus-bear would have a completely different name.


Obligatory "just keep watching" comment.


> As for it releasing an egg when it was frightened by Appa, I do not believe that such an occurrence can happen in actuality. Some animals, including humans, may lose control of their bladders or intestines, thus releasing their liquid or solid waste, when frightened, but eggs are completely different, for they are not continually produced by the body, and because the body invests such a great amount of resources into the development of an egg, it would never release one due to fright.


It's a common gag in children's shows, usually done with chickens.


> On that subject, how is it acceptable to show such an action in a children's series? From what I have seen, most series are very strict and almost never allow depictions of excretion or vomiting to be shown, nor a human woman giving birth, yet the release of an egg is allowed? *There really is little difference between that and the other actions*, from the perspective of the audience, for all involve expulsions from the body,


Except the laying of eggs is a lot cleaner than the examples you mentioned. No messy fluids.


> and such depictions may also cause the viewers to develop the false idea that egg-laying animals release their eggs when subjected to extreme fear.


 Are you taking that this seriously?


> The reason that I said above that that scene was risque or suggestive is because some people may find such an action to be erotic; I know that the platypus-bear was not a human, but the concept is the same. I admit that I was reminded of _Night Shift Nurses_ when I saw the animal expel an egg from its body (I notice that the opening on its body from which the egg emerged was not shown); people who have seen that anime series will know what I am talking about.


Wow.  Anything can be turned into erotica, so that isn't really saying anything. It's a children's show; the animators don't expect that of their target audience.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 21, 2010)

My girlfriend brought that up, how can there be hybrid animals when the normal animals are apparently quite sparse. As in, where did they get the language to name these animals.


My best explanation: we've seen farms where they apparently breed and experiment with these sort of hybrids (episode 207, especially). So _long_ ago, there was a very purposeful movement to combine animals, for whatever goddamned reason that might be, and now these animals are the "normal" ones. I won't even guess how long before the start of the series, and, obviously, that's difficult considering the simple technology of the time, but they do have script...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 21, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Except the laying of eggs is a lot cleaner than the examples you mentioned. No messy fluids.



That is not necessarily true; in order for an egg to pass through an animal's birth canal comfortably, it needs to be lubricated to reduce friction, and animals that are born live, such as placental mammals, may often be covered with amniotic fluids when they are born.



Shaidar Haran said:


> Are you taking that this seriously?



Yes, because I take _everything_ seriously. I actually am very surprised that other users here are still surprised that I take things so seriously. I thought that everyone here would know by this time how serious I am about everything in my life.


----------



## Noah (Sep 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> My girlfriend brought that up, how can there be hybrid animals when the normal animals are apparently quite sparse. As in, where did they get the language to name these animals.
> 
> 
> My best explanation: we've seen farms where they apparently breed and experiment with these sort of hybrids (episode 207, especially). So _long_ ago, there was a very purposeful movement to combine animals, for whatever goddamned reason that might be, and now these animals are the "normal" ones. I won't even guess how long before the start of the series, and, obviously, that's difficult considering the simple technology of the time, but they do have script...



Better answer:

Herp derp, who cares?!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 21, 2010)

912 pages, motherfather.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 21, 2010)

I just finished _Bato of the Water Tribe,_ and first, the plot device of Aang fearing that Katara and Sokka would leave him, Aang leaving before he could hear a crucial sentence, Aang hiding the message, Aang leaving the others, then them finally getting back together, is a plot deivce that I have seen many times in all manner of television series; animated and live-action, Japanese and western, those for children and those for older audiences. At this point in my life, such an occurrence is rather cliche and predictable, but I suppose that no television series can ever be perfect.

Second, it was very good to see Sokka have significant character development for the first time in the series; it was fifteen episodes into the first season, but it was still immensely enjoying to see him finally acting more maturely. I do hope that he continues to become wiser and more like a proper leader as the series progresses.

Third, this episode had what I consider to be the most intense fight thus far in the series, and also an example of the series' excellent choreography. I did not know that Appa could bend, or that any animals not possessing human intelligence could do so. I hope that June appears again, for I found her to be an interesting character, and I especially like her shirshu; what a fearsome beast it was. When the shirshu inserted its snout into Zuko's ship and sniffed the air to find the fugitive, was anyone reminded of the scene in the first _Land Before Time_ movie when the Sharptooth first appeared and was sniffing around for Littlefoot and Cera? I was, for that scene (the _Land Before Time_ scene) was one of the most frightening movie scenes in my childhood. The Shirshu even gave a roar very similar to that of the Sharptooth when it was fighting Appa toward the end of the episode, which I thought was very cool.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 21, 2010)

*Reads the Platypus Bear post*

DDJ...Y-you're kidding, right?...


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I did not know that Appa could bend, or that any animals not possessing human intelligence could do so.


Another obligatory "just keep watching" comment.
However, yeah, Appa flies by airbending. And Momo can earthbend.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *Reads the Platypus Bear post*
> 
> DDJ...Y-you're kidding, right?...



Did you not read my previous post? I am not kidding; I am completely serious.



Shaidar Haran said:


> Another obligatory "just keep watching" comment.



Could you please stop saying that? I am finding it to be rather bothersome.



Shaidar Haran said:


> And Momo can earthbend.



Are you being serious, or sarcastic?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Could you please stop saying that? I am finding it to be rather bothersome.


Talking to people who will often have to hold their tongues is quite bothersome anyways.


> Are you being serious, or sarcastic?


Quite serious. It was in the episode with Haru and the Earth Kingdom prisoners. Momo quite clearly earthbends. Did you miss the episode?


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 21, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Quite serious. It was in the episode with Haru and the Earth Kingdom prisoners. Momo quite clearly earthbends. Did you miss the episode?



That was a ploy by Katara and Sokka to infiltrate the prison, and it was supposed to be Katara who would be thought to be an earth-bender, not Momo.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That was a ploy by Katara and Sokka to infiltrate the prison, and it was supposed to be Katara who would be thought to be an earth-bender, not Momo.


The Fire Nation soldier clearly indicates that Momo is earthbending; he all but ignores Katara and Sokka. And Katara's a waterbender, not an earthbender.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 21, 2010)

Well, you didn't want spoilers, so we're being nice 

But really, you are looking into stuff like P.Bear too much. Just relax, there's a lot of jokes in this series.


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## Level7N00b (Sep 21, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished _Bato of the Water Tribe,_ and first, the plot device of Aang fearing that Katara and Sokka would leave him, Aang leaving before he could hear a crucial sentence, Aang hiding the message, Aang leaving the others, then them finally getting back together, is a plot deivce that I have seen many times in all manner of television series; animated and live-action, Japanese and western, those for children and those for older audiences. At this point in my life, such an occurrence is rather cliche and predictable, but I suppose that no television series can ever be perfect.
> 
> Second, it was very good to see Sokka have significant character development for the first time in the series; it was fifteen episodes into the first season, but it was still immensely enjoying to see him finally acting more maturely. I do hope that he continues to become wiser and more like a proper leader as the series progresses.
> 
> Third, this episode had what I consider to be the most intense fight thus far in the series, and also an example of the series' excellent choreography. I did not know that Appa could bend, or that any animals not possessing human intelligence could do so. I hope that June appears again, for I found her to be an interesting character, and I especially like her shirshu; what a fearsome beast it was. When the shirshu inserted its snout into Zuko's ship and sniffed the air to find the fugitive, was anyone reminded of the scene in the first _Land Before Time_ movie when the Sharptooth first appeared and was sniffing around for Littlefoot and Cera? I was, for that scene (the _Land Before Time_ scene) was one of the most frightening movie scenes in my childhood. The Shirshu even gave a roar very similar to that of the Sharptooth when it was fighting Appa toward the end of the episode, which I thought was very cool.







Yes, Appa can Airbend. Air Nomads learned it from the Sky Bison in the first place.


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## Koi (Sep 22, 2010)

How sad is it to realize that after Appa dies, Sky Bison are probably extinct? 8C


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 22, 2010)

Koi said:


> How sad is it to realize that after Appa dies, Sky Bison are probably extinct? 8C


I'm sure there's Bat Lemur Bisons in the future 

There seems to be a very loose genetic viability in the Avatar world.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 22, 2010)

In the episode that I just finished watching, Sokka and Katara's fatehr, Hakoda, was seen for the first time, and that reminded that I unfortunately know that there is an "I am your father"-type moment much later in the series (I did not want to learn such information, but it was written on a page at _TV Tropes),_ although I thankfully know nothing else about that event apart from the fact that it occurs.

Therefore, will having knowledge that an event occurs, yet not knowing any details of its occurrence, affect the level of surprise that I experience from the event? For example, I played _Final Fantasy VII_ for the first time many years after it had been released, so I already knew about Aerith dying, but I did not know when it would happen, and I had started to care for the characters, so I still felt a great emotional response to seeing her death. I hope that it will be the same with this series here.


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2010)

You know one of the most hilarious moments in Avatar, when Pakku gave his speech about how Katara proved hardwork can go above natural talent. funny considering how Katara never had any formal training and she was basically owning all the other water bending students under Pakku. Sure she's not on the same level as Aang, but she easily surpassed all those kids. Also it was hilarious how Sokka and Yue fell in love after just meeting one another and how Yue's betrothed was basically the biggest incompetent jerk one could ever imagine. Even better was how Pakku just happened to have once been betrothed to katara's mom.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 22, 2010)

I believe it was implied that Katara had been working assiduously in between 118 and 119.




DemonDragonJ said:


> Could you please stop saying that? I am finding it to be rather bothersome



I'm finding you very bothersome. Shall we ignore you until you finish 321?


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2010)

Jove said:


> I believe it was implied that Katara had been working assiduously in between 118 and 119.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Compared to Northern Water Tribesmen who were already Pakku's student?


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 22, 2010)

Well, the exact quote is:

*Master Pakku*: Katara, you have advanced more quickly than any student I have ever trained. You have proven that with fierce determination, passion and hard work you can accomplish anything. (Turning to look o.c.) Raw talent alone is not enough.


Over the regular students, it's plausible. Katara was singularly determined to properly learn water bending. They certainly didn't seem to have bold personalities.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 22, 2010)

Ben Grimm said:


> Compared to Northern Water Tribesmen who were already Pakku's student?



None of which had ever seen actual combat and, as rules in the north dictate, some of those kids where probably there because they _had_ to be, not because they wanted to be. Equate that to our world, how hard does a kid try at a sport if his parents forced him to be in it rather then him wanting to be in it. 

In other words, those other students were there because it was simply a stage in their life, something they were obligated by their culture to learn. Katara, on the other hand, desperately wanted to learn waterbending and had an honest love for the skill driving her to learn. On top of all that, unlike the other students, in the back of Katara's mind, she knows that she _has_ to learn these skills because she knows she'll be leaving the NWT and going back into combat on top of teaching the Avatar. Having an actual goal and need for a skill set tends to be a much better driving force for learning it other than just _learn this because you're supposed to_.

It's really not all that unusual that she pushed past the other students so fast.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 22, 2010)

Ben Grimm said:


> Even better was how Pakku just happened to have once been betrothed to katara's *grandmother*.


^^ Corrected.


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## Buskuv (Sep 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> For example, I played _Final Fantasy VII_ for the first time many years after it had been released, so I already knew about Aerith dying, but I did not know when it would happen, and I had started to care for the characters, so I still felt a great emotional response to seeing her death. I hope that it will be the same with this series here.



The only thing that bothered me about this, on the first play through, she died with all my nice armor on.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 22, 2010)

When Sokka and Katara were speaking with Bato, they mentioned "The Blubber Fiasco," and when Aang asked about it, he was told that it was a "long story;" was that a "Noodle Incident?" If anyone here is unfamiliar with that term, a Noodle Incident, named for such an incident in _Calvin and Hobbes,_ is something in a work of fiction that is often referenced or alluded to but never explained in detail.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> The only thing that bothered me about this, on the first play through, she died with all my nice armor on.



I am sorry to hear that, but I thought that the game automatically removes all her items when she leaves the party, and if it does not, the best solution would be to remove them manually.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 22, 2010)

Yeah, they pulled a Noodle Incident, it's a frequently used trope in all shows.  It won't be the last time it's used in Avatar.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When Sokka and Katara were speaking with Bato, they mentioned "The Blubber Fiasco," and when Aang asked about it, he was told that it was a "long story;" was that a "Noodle Incident?" If anyone here is unfamiliar with that term, a Noodle Incident, named for such an incident in _Calvin and Hobbes,_ is something in a work of fiction that is often referenced or alluded to but never explained in detail.


Sadly, yes.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 22, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Sadly, yes.



I would not say that it is sad, for that allows us, the audience, to imagine what the incident was, and the incident is likely to be far more hilarious in our minds, or at least that was the belief of Bill Watterson, the author of _Calvin and Hobbes_ and the person who coined the term "Noodle Incident."

I just finished watching _The Deserter,_ and while it was not good that Katara was burned, it was good that she discovered that she could heal with her water-bending ability, and that Aang vowed to not fire-bend again. I believe that it is too early for Aang to learn fire-bending, for he has only begun to learn water-bending, has not at all learned earth-bending, and fire-bending is Zuko's primary advantage over him, and I definitely believe that it is still too early for Aang and Zuko to have a decisive final battle. I also found it to be especially profound how Jeong-Jeong spoke of the philosophy of fire-bending and of how it is so dangerous, and how Zhao was brutal and undisciplined, traits that allowed Aang to taunt him into a frenzied rage. What a great series this is!


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 22, 2010)

Glad you're enjoying it. It only gets better.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 23, 2010)

Oh, and keep watching. 


And oh hey guys.... look at the bottom of the Theater.


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## Buskuv (Sep 23, 2010)

I don't think I've ever looked at the theatre mods.

Is it you or Kim?


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 23, 2010)

I just became one today. Para's been a Theater mod for as long as I can remember. I've not mastered two mod elements. Within a year I will be ready to face and defeat Tazmo.


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## Buskuv (Sep 23, 2010)

Jove said:


> I just became one today. Para's been a Theater mod for as long as I can remember. I've *not* mastered two mod elements. Within a year I will be ready to face and defeat Tazmo.



Sounds about right.

But, Tazmo's probably too busy being rich off of idiots' money.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 23, 2010)

Jove said:


> I just became one today. Para's been a Theater mod for as long as I can remember.


So you're going to fix the thread title, yes?


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 23, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Sounds about right.
> 
> But, Tazmo's probably too busy being rich off of idiots' money.



It is right. I've mastered two, now I need to master two more and I'll be able to defeat the PLUS! Lord. I'll have to deal with War Minister Mbxx and Grand Secretariat Mugen first, though.




Shaidar Haran said:


> So you're going to fix the thread title, yes?


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 23, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I would not say that it is sad, for that allows us, the audience, to imagine what the incident was, and the incident is likely to be far more hilarious in our minds, or at least that was the belief of Bill Watterson, the author of _Calvin and Hobbes_ and the person who coined the term "Noodle Incident."
> 
> I just finished watching _The Deserter,_ and while it was not good that Katara was burned, it was good that she discovered that she could heal with her water-bending ability, and that Aang vowed to not fire-bend again. I believe that it is too early for Aang to learn fire-bending, for he has only begun to learn water-bending, has not at all learned earth-bending, and fire-bending is Zuko's primary advantage over him, and I definitely believe that it is still too early for Aang and Zuko to have a decisive final battle. I also found it to be especially profound how Jeong-Jeong spoke of the philosophy of fire-bending and of how it is so dangerous, and how Zhao was brutal and undisciplined, traits that allowed Aang to taunt him into a frenzied rage. What a great series this is!



Jeong Jeong was the best thing about that episode, and it was a shame that he didn't get more appearances.


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## Burke (Sep 23, 2010)

Im glad that we dominate the top of the theatre to this day 
oh and congratz jovey


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 23, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Jeong Jeong was the best thing about that episode, and it was a shame that he didn't get more appearances.



Really? That is very unfortunate; I thought that Jeong Jeong was a very awesome character.

I just finished _The Northern Air Temple_ and _The Waterbending Master,_ and I was pleased to see a greater focus on Sokka; I like how he is using intelligence and strategy to compensate for lack of combat ability. I believe that I can safely say that he is my second favorite character after Zuko, and as for Zuko himself, I am glad that he is employing subtlety for once; I knew that he and Iroh would not be fooled by Zhao's scheme. 

The Mechanist revealing that he was making weapons for the Fire Nation to help his son is a plot device that I have seen before, but it works, and I imagine that the younger watchers of this series would not have experienced such a device as often as I have. The siege engines that the Fire Nation had were remarkably impressive, but both them and the boats seen thus far make me wonder exactly what level of technological development the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ has.

When the trio reached the Northern Water Tribe, I was surprised to see how large and powerful it was in comparison to the Southern Water Tribe; how can there be such a difference between the two tribes, I wonder? I was displeased by Pakku's sexist attitude, but at least he agreed to teach Katara water-bending eventually. Their fight was an excellent one; I hope to see more of such fights as the series progresses. Katara looked quite good with her hair down, so I hope that she wears it unbound more often.

Pakku being the former lover of Katara and Sokka's grandmother was a moderate surprise, but I really hope that that was not the "I am your father"-type surprise that I have heard about, for it was not nearly significant enough to me to be worthy of that line. I hope that Pakku has more appearances that did Jeong Jeong.

The way in which Sokka and Yue so quickly developed feelings for each other was rather difficult to believe, but it was very unfortunate that Yue was already engaged to another person. I have heard that Sokka eventually has romantic developments with Suki from Kyoshi, so perhaps this occurrence would explain why that happens.

I am anticipating a massive battle in the next two episodes, so I shall be watching them with high expectations.


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## Level7N00b (Sep 23, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Really? That is very unfortunate; I thought that Jeong Jeong was a very awesome character.
> 
> I just finished _The Northern Air Temple_ and _The Waterbending Master,_ and I was pleased to see a greater focus on Sokka; I like how he is using intelligence and strategy to compensate for lack of combat ability. I believe that I can safely say that he is my second favorite character after Zuko, and as for Zuko himself, I am glad that he is employing subtlety for once; I knew that he and Iroh would not be fooled by Zhao's scheme.
> 
> ...



It is likely because they have a greater army. The Southern Water Tribe even in it's prime is still,The Northern Tribe, that is why it has remained unconquered for the 100 years of the war.

Oh and Karata's hair, you'll be seeing more of it being own.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 23, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The way in which Sokka and Yue so quickly developed feelings for each other was rather difficult to believe



The exact opposite of the movie.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 23, 2010)

Jove said:


> The exact opposite of the movie.



I have not yet seen the movie, and currently have no intention of doing so, for I doubt that it is as good as the original series.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 23, 2010)

Speaking of the movie, look what I posted way back in December 2008:



Jove said:


> this is all pretty simple:
> 
> Present - 2010: This is not going to happen.
> Summer 2010: This is not happening.
> 2011 - End of Days: That never happened.




Devastatingly accurate.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 23, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Really? That is very unfortunate; I thought that Jeong Jeong was a very awesome character.
> 
> I just finished _The Northern Air Temple_ and _The Waterbending Master,_ and I was pleased to see a greater focus on Sokka; I like how he is using intelligence and strategy to compensate for lack of combat ability. I believe that I can safely say that he is my second favorite character after Zuko, and as for Zuko himself, I am glad that he is employing subtlety for once; I knew that he and Iroh would not be fooled by Zhao's scheme.
> 
> ...


Well, they're up to steam engine and pneumatic technology. That's pretty much a given, since Firebenders are practically born smelters and engines themselves. 

Funny how Firebenders have to use water to run their engines as well, it's like a subtle message about yin and yang.

One thing I really feel impressed with, is that the writers seem to have a very strong grasp of Chinese philosophy. So many people confuse the yin and yang as good and evil. Many of the moral dualities are fuzzy, much like how in Chinese philosophy, good and evil are disgracefully too simple and heavy handed to describe people.


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## Buskuv (Sep 24, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, they're up to steam engine and pneumatic technology. That's pretty much a given, since Firebenders are practically born smelters and engines themselves.
> 
> Funny how Firebenders have to use water to run their engines as well, it's like a subtle message about yin and yang.
> 
> One thing I really feel impressed with, is that the writers seem to have a very strong grasp of Chinese philosophy. So many people confuse the yin and yang as good and evil. Many of the moral dualities are fuzzy, much like how in Chinese philosophy, good and evil are disgracefully too simple and heavy handed to describe people.




*Spoiler*: __ 



They do a fantastic example of that in The Firebending Masters episode.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 24, 2010)

I just finished watching the final episodes of the first season, and what excellent episodes they were! I see that Yue's fiancee, Han, was rather arrogant and self-centered, so it was very humorous for me to see him bravely assault Admiral Zhao, only to have Zhao side-step his attack and throw him into the water. Yue's fate, however, was not so humorous; it was tragic, actually. Sokka, and especially her father, must have been stricken with sorrow.

I really feel sympathy for Zuko; his life has been incredibly difficult, and there seems to be no happy ending for him any time in the near future. I hope that things get better for him eventually.

Aang entering his avatar state and forming a giant monster from the water was very impressive; I wonder if he can do that with the other elements, as well?

Now that the Fire Nation has been driven out of the Water Tribe's territory, where shall they strike next? The Earth Kingdom has yet to be featured strongly in the series, so it would make sense for the next season to focus on it.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 24, 2010)

There's a lot of debate about which finale was better, Book 1 or Book 2. They are inherently different, I'll say that. And they are both brilliant. In the enormous post sequence where I ranked every episode, I ranked the final episode of Book 1 #4, and the finale of Book 2 was #1.

Book 2 is Earth. It takes places almost entirely within the Earth Kingdom. It is, quite simply, of the the best seasons of any show ever produced. You're going to learn a lot more about the intricacies of the show, especially bending, politics, and the Avatar State.

As for Zuko, his journey is arduous. He's not even close to the abyss of his descent yet.

Also, Han talk allows me to post this:


----------



## Burke (Sep 24, 2010)

Admiral Zhang!


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## Mider T (Sep 24, 2010)

I personally preferred the Season 2 because the ending was unexpected.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 24, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Admiral Zhang!



II thought he said "Admiral Choi"

At any rate, what's up with that guy mispronouncing names?


----------



## Burke (Sep 24, 2010)

He was doing his m night impression!
Aha! i just realised that meaning


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## Superstarseven (Sep 25, 2010)

Second banning for our good friend Mider T?


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 25, 2010)

Oh, way more than that. T's earned a one month vacation this time.


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## Burke (Sep 25, 2010)

Cmon, its mider T for christs sake, what could he be doing?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 25, 2010)

Don't ask me, I just work here.


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## Buskuv (Sep 25, 2010)

What is this, Mider T general?


----------



## Koi (Sep 25, 2010)

Joveku you have mastered the art of Theaterbending!  Or.. Musicbending, and now you've moved _on_ to Theaterbending?  Either way, flameo budday. (there is a gif of Wang Fire clapping that I would totally insert here if I could find it again)


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 26, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Long Post_ 





Level7N00b said:


> II thought he said "Admiral Choi"
> 
> At any rate, what's up with that guy mispronouncing names?



I believe that that was done as a humorous portrayal of Han's arrogance and how he thinks of only himself. The other characters, and the creators of this series, however, do not have that excuse, for I have already stated in my earlier posts how a number of names are not being pronounced in a phonetically correct manner. This series is set in a world modeled after ancient China and Japan, and the languages of those countries do not use the Roman alphabet, so when names from those languages are written in the Roman alphabet, they are usually written in the most phonetically-correct form. For example, consider any Japanese animated series that is discussed on this forum, and one will see that Japanese names are written in a form that is unambiguous and phonetically-correct. Because the names in _Avatar: TLA_ (the full name is too long to write every time) are supposed to be Chinese or Japanese names written in Roman letters, one would expect them to be phonetically sensible. Most of the names are, but several are not, although perhaps that is simply because I am so strict about proper grammar and language, while apparently the production staff of this series are not.

I forgot to state my opinion of Koh, the Trickster Spirit before, so I shall say that I found him to be very creepy yet very awesome at the same time, and I especially like the smooth and sinister voice with which he spoke. I hope that he appears again, for he is too good a character to not explore further.

I started the second season, and I see that General Fong was determined to use Aang's avatar power as a weapon; no one in the episode said this, but I believe that Fong is very similar to Fire Lord Ozai or other Fire Nation leaders: determined to win at any cost, and desiring to crush his enemies. It would have been nice for one of the trio to have explicitly said that to Fong, to see what his reaction would have been.

Again, the writers were able to have risqué or suggestive content in a series aimed at young children: first, Aang drank tea that was explicitly referred to as a “stimulant;” second, the manner in which he acted after drinking it was clearly reminiscent of a person under the influence of a stimulant; and third, Sokka apparently kicked two guards in their crotches. I like how they have been able to do that.

Finally, Azula has appeared! Wow, I thought that Zuko was short-tempered, arrogant, and intolerant of failure or imperfection, but Azula has all of his traits, both positive and negative, magnified many times over. I cannot wait to see more of her. Her name seems to be derived from the word _azul,_ which is Latin and Spanish for “blue,” a color that is often associated with water, tranquility, and logic, yet she does not have blue eyes, nor is she very tranquil, although she does appear to be somewhat logical, at least when her arrogance and temper are not hindering her logic. Is that not ironic or strange?

I suspected immediately, as did Iroh, that she had ulterior motives when she told Zuko that their father wished for him to return home, for such an offer was simply too good to be true. I also find it rather humorous, but also rather face-palm-worthy, that the officer with Azula would make such a foolish mistake as to use the word “prisoner” when they were supposed to be subtle about such a mission. How unintelligent could a person be to make such a mistake as that?

I see that Azula is able to generate lightning from her hands and fingertips. Is that another type of fire-bending? I would imagine so, with the explanation that lightning is more focused and concentrated that ordinary fire (in actuality, they are not the same), which would be a display of Azula’s great skill and talent in that art. With that being said, is it possible to generate blue fire when fire-bending? Blue fire is much hotter than orange fire, so I would imagine that an especially skilled fire-bender would be able to do so.

Azula was clearly superior to Zuko in terms of fighting and fire-bending skill, yet Iroh deflected her attack and then threw her from the ship very easily. Is Iroh extremely powerful, or did he simply have the element of surprise? I would imagine that he would be powerful, as the brother of the Fire Lord and one of the Fire Nation's greatest generals, but I do not want him to be the one to have the final fight with Azula at the end; I believe that that honor belongs to Zuko, the ignored and cast-aside child of the Fire Lord, because defeating Azula would be a great victory for him and proof that he is not weak or worthless. He has greater reason than anyone else to fight her.

After seeing how Sokka reacted to Suki and the other warriors of Kyoshi, I wonder how he will react to seeing Azula? Of course, Azula has none of Suki's mercy or compassion, so I doubt that such a meeting would end well for Sokka.

At the end, when Zuko and Iroh cut their hair, were they symbolically showing that they had severed all connections with the Fire Nation? I notice that nearly every important character from the Fire Nation has their hair in a topknot, so it is logical that by removing that topknot, a person would be renouncing their connection with it.

Overall, the second season has started off just as strongly as the first one did, in my mind, so I am still enjoying every moment of it.


----------



## Burke (Sep 26, 2010)

Yes the show has asian influence, but it is not asia, so if the original canon of the series pronounces a name a certain way then that is the way that it is pronounced. I mean you could also make the same argument that "They speak english but write in kanji like characters" but the answer for that, as well as the pronunciation argument, will always be "It doesnt matter"


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 26, 2010)

Yeah, the severance of the topknot was a symbolic ritual. Pay close attention to the knife they used; it plays importance later on in the season.

Azula's blue fire is more like a trademark, and indicative of her personality. As for Iroh... well, I suppose it's not a spoiler to tell you that Iroh is _very_ powerful. In Book 2, you're going to learn a lot more about Iroh's personal character


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 26, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: _Long Post_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It could be that, or he may just have a general problem or remembering names. He did once refer to Sokka as _Sooka_, with a long "O". So, might not be his fault totally. 

Koh was an interesting character. I doubt he is evil, just probably amoral, seeing as he was obviously trying to trick Aang into making some facial expressions. Hell, he even said he hadn't gotten a child's face in a long time. Sounds kinda creepy if you know what I mean. 

Indeed. General Fong was fighting for the "cause" but he was one step away from being evil, what with putting Aang's crew in danger, just to try and get the Avatar State to juice up. He kinda strikes me as a guy who hates to wait and takes a lot of shortcuts. Probably cheated in school too. 

I won't go into detail about lightning bending, but I will just say that only a select handful of Firebenders are able to use it. It will be explained later in the series.

And yes, Iroh>>>>>Azula many times over.  You will soon come to realize that Iroh isn't just a lazy, tea addict.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 26, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: _Long Post_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Buh? What does this have to do with anything?I'm sorry, but I fee a bit confused everytime you post your thoughts on AtLA, you kinda jump from thing to thing, and go into strange tangents like eye colors, or something superficial regarded as important.

Anyways, I think you should relax a bit on the language, they don't have as much experience in asian languages, and have advisors that help out from time to time. It's not really important to focus on a small thing, while it does add a degree more of culture, they are focused more in making the story enjoyable. They do have fun bilingual bonuses though. I think the initial characters at least, didn't have a focus on having their names mean anything per se. The Hanzi of their names came way later, and there is a bit of awkwardness in the meanings and phonetics.

Azula though, does mean something, she was named after Azulon, and both were named after the constellation house of the blue dragon. Azul is blue in Portuguese and Spanish, lon or long is dragon. La just has a feminine connotation to it.

Azula's flames were probably put in because of her name, but yes, she uses blue flames, and physically, they are hotter than most other firebender's flames. 

As for lightning, there are scientific reasons for it, and it's related to heat.

The topknots were most likely inspired by the hair cultures of China and Japan. When Chinese used to wear ques, cutting it off would mean treason, and breaking ties to the person's country. It's more closer to Bushido, where I think a samurai breaks his allegiance to their master by cutting their topknot off.



N??ps said:


> Yes the show has asian influence, but it is not asia, so if the original canon of the series pronounces a name a certain way then that is the way that it is pronounced. I mean you could also make the same argument that "They speak english but write in_* kanji*_ like characters" but the answer for that, as well as the pronunciation argument, will always be "It doesnt matter"


_*HANZI*_


----------



## Burke (Sep 26, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> _*HANZI*_



I know i know, while i was typing i was like, "What was that word reikai used? .... Forget it, im sure hes going to tell me anyways."


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 26, 2010)

Obligatory "How the hell does Chit Sang have grey eyes?!" response.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 26, 2010)

Jove said:


> Obligatory "How the hell does Chit Sang have grey eyes?!" response.



Elementary my dear Jove. Same reason Ty Lee doesn't.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 26, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Elementary my dear Jove. Same reason Ty Lee doesn't.



But she can't bend. He's a firebender, but his eyes aren't hazel... so I'm wondering where that trait came from and if he perhaps has mixed heritage.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 26, 2010)

I assumed gold eyes were mostly common amongst nobles and such. and I thought the grey eyes were indicative of ash.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 26, 2010)

I guess it depends. Most of the soldiers I recall having the gold/hazel eyes. Just checked through screencaps, and some kids had different irises (one kid even had green), but as far I can see Chit Sang's the only official firebender I've seen with different colored eyes.

I always associated gray with Air Nomads and Earth Kingdom.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 26, 2010)

The only real constant among eye color in the series seems to be with the water tribesman all having blue eyes and the some Fire Nation citizens having gold eyes . The Earth Kingdom and fire nation seem to have more mixed heritage amongst its populace. We see brown, blue and green eyes in the earth kingdom. Grey, gold and brown eyes in the Fire nation. Aang had gray eyes, so that's a bit of a crossover between the Air Nomads and the Fire Nation, and I'm sure that gets even more mixed in the Fire Nation colonies in the Earth Kingdom.

All in all, eye color isn't a real good indication of which nation someone is from.


----------



## Nimander (Sep 26, 2010)

I always wondered whether it would be possible for a bender to be able to bend more than one element.  Not all four like the Avatar, but two, maybe even three if the genetic traits turn out to be co-dominant and not cancel each other out.

Maybe we'll even see something like this in Korra: a group of people that has been "breeding" for a superbender over generations.  

*starts imagining nice fanfic premise*


----------



## Koi (Sep 26, 2010)

Didn't Roku's wife have gray eyes too?  Not sure if she was a bender, though.. or if she was, we never saw it.

Also Bryke I believe stated that if two benders of different elements got together, then their kid would bend one element or the other, or neither.


----------



## Burke (Sep 26, 2010)

Koi said:


> Not sure if she was a bender



:ho
Oh i sure hope so!


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 26, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I assumed gold eyes were mostly common amongst nobles and such. and I thought the grey eyes were indicative of ash.



Ty Lee is a noble, and her eyes aren't gold/amber so I guess it might just be so she looked different in Azula's trio? Also, Piandao is dark skinned, with brown eyes. 



Nimander said:


> I always wondered whether it would be possible for a bender to be able to bend more than one element.  Not all four like the Avatar, but two, maybe even three if the genetic traits turn out to be co-dominant and not cancel each other out.



That's actually kind of a bad idea. It makes the Avatar meaningless if someone else can bend more than one element. 



Koi said:


> Didn't Roku's wife have gray eyes too?  Not sure if she was a bender, though.. or if she was, we never saw it.
> 
> *Also Bryke I believe stated that if two benders of different elements got together, then their kid would bend one element or the other, or neither.*



Yes, Ta Min had grey eyes as well. 

And lol at this, I could see the kid raging if he/she got stuck with the element they didn't want.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 26, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Ty Lee is a noble, and her eyes aren't gold/amber so I guess it might just be so she looked different in Azula's trio? Also, Piandao is dark skinned, with brown eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hence, "mostly common"


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 27, 2010)

I just finished watching _The Cave of the Two Lovers,_ and it was interesting to learn the supposed origin of the city of Omashu. It seems to me that the traveling musicians who joined the trio are this series' equivalent of hippies, judging from their clothing and personalities. I found myself sympathizing with Sokka whenever he smacked his forehead; why do so many people, in both this series and other series, act so unintelligently so frequently? It boggles my mind that these people can still be alive.

I found it to be rather humorous that Zuko and Iroh would prefer to be captured by the Earth Kingdom than by Azula, but I can perfectly understand their preference; from what I have seen of Azula, I would never want to be caught be her, either.

When Katara offered to kiss Aang, and he refused, I nearly smacked my own forehead, the way that Sokka had been doing for the entire episode; how could Aang turn down such an offer? If I had been in that situation, I would have kissed Katara without hesitation; of course, I am nearly ten years older than she is currently (I am 23, Katara is 14), but in a medieval world, such as the one in which this series is set, people cared far less about such age differences than they do today.

I currently am in the middle of watching _Return to Omashu,_ and thus far, the most interesting aspect of the episode was the appearance of two new characters, both from the Fire Nation: Mei and Ty Lee. Mei's personality reminded of Raven from the _Teen Titans_ animated series (and I have already mentioned elsewhere that Azula reminds me of Blackfire), and her fighting style was interesting, although I wish that more of it was shown. She is the first non-bender in the series to be a competent fighter, as Sokka has not displayed any exceptional combat ability thus far, so I hope that she appears more often as the series continues. Ty Lee's personality reminded me of Starfire from _Teen Titans,_ which makes me wonder how she could possibly be a friend of Azula's, for their personalities are so utterly different from each other. I hope that she is also a fighter, using her acrobatic skills as an asset in combat. Now that I have these characters have appeared, I can finally understand everything that is occurring in  of fanart, featuring a crossover between _Avatar: TLA_ and _Teen Titans._

While I am on that subject, is it just a coincidence that a new character joins the heroes (an example of the "Sixth Ranger" trope from _TV Tropes)_ in the second season of each series? I imagine so, but the similarities are rather striking, especially when one takes into account that each character can manipulate earth and stone.


----------



## Burke (Sep 27, 2010)

And now that i think about it ty lee is so starfire in personality


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 27, 2010)

Actually, it's spelled Mai. Yes, we know... even I shake my head at that one, but I like that pronunciation better anyway, no matter how incorrect it kind of is.


The first part of Book 2 is a bit controversial. Some people at the time considered them "filler" and were very concerned. I think it's hogwash, not merely because an original story by definition cannot contain filler but because they are truly gripping and enchanting episodes. I believe that The Avatar State and The Swamp contain some of the most beautiful sequences in the show.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Again, the writers were able to have risqu? or suggestive content in a series aimed at young children: *first, Aang drank tea that was explicitly referred to as a ?stimulant;? second, the manner in which he acted after drinking it was clearly reminiscent of a person under the influence of a stimulant;* and third, Sokka apparently kicked two guards in their crotches. I like how they have been able to do that.


 Caffeinated beverages are risque or suggestive?


----------



## Ryth76 (Sep 27, 2010)

Yeah, that's what I don't get.  Since when has it been considered anything but comedy when someone drinks something that makes them energetic?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 27, 2010)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Caffeinated beverages are risque or suggestive?



Well, caffeine is a drug, and some people are concerned about children seeing depictions of drug intoxication in visual media, so I thought that some people would consider it to be risque because it may encourage children to consume caffeine.

I am still watching _Return to Omashu_ (the reason that it is taking so long is because I was switching between tasks on my computer; otherwise, I would have finished the episode hours ago), and I see that Mai is also a friend of Azula; what a surprise that is, the three of them being friends when they are as different from each other as it is possible to be, but perhaps that is not so surprising, for Aang, Katara, and Sokka have very different personalities from each other.

I was rather displeased to see that the governor's son happened to be carried along by the refugees from Omashu, but I was very pleased to see that not much time was spent on the heroes needing to care for him. When the governor agreed to exchange his son for Bumi, I thought that that was great for the heroes: they will be rescuing Bumi without needing to break him out. Azula arriving in Omashu at the same time was not surprising, so I cannot imagine that the exchange will be without difficulties; it would be too boring if the heroes were able to rescue Bumi too easily.

As for Azula, I see that she wished for a dangerous and potentially deadly performance at the circus, displaying what I consider to be sadistic tendencies. It is too bad that this series is meant for younger audiences, because otherwise, Azula could be far more evil and sadistic than she already is (I wonder if she would be a good dominatrix? ).


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _The Cave of the Two Lovers,_ and it was interesting to learn the supposed origin of the city of Omashu. It seems to me that the traveling musicians who joined the trio are this series' equivalent of hippies, judging from their clothing and personalities. I found myself sympathizing with Sokka whenever he smacked his forehead; why do so many people, in both this series and other series, act so unintelligently so frequently? It boggles my mind that these people can still be alive.
> 
> I found it to be rather humorous that Zuko and Iroh would prefer to be captured by the Earth Kingdom than by Azula, but I can perfectly understand their preference; from what I have seen of Azula, I would never want to be caught be her, either.
> 
> ...



I doubt that it was supposed to be a humorous situation though. They would have rather gone to toe Earth Kingdom, facing the possibility of being arrested, and very likely killed. The fact that they chose such a fate highly hints at Azula's cruelty toward prisoners. 

Mai's is obviously supposed to be Avatar's version of a goth, with her bored and depressed personality, and Ty Lee is supposed to be depicted as the closest thing to a valley girl. And yes, despite the radical differences in personality, and what one would expect Mai does not at all seem to mind Ty Lee's personality.

As for the sixth ranger, you will see soon enough.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Well, caffeine is a drug, and some people are concerned about children seeing depictions of drug intoxication in visual media, so I thought that some people would consider it to be risque because it may encourage children to consume caffeine.



Funny enough, you'll actually get to witness some substance intoxication coming up in a later episode. It's a fan favorite moment.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 27, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> I doubt that it was supposed to be a humorous situation though. They would have rather gone to toe Earth Kingdom, facing the possibility of being arrested, and very likely killed. The fact that they chose such a fate highly hints at Azula's cruelty toward prisoners.
> 
> Mai's is obviously supposed to be Avatar's version of a goth, with her bored and depressed personality, and Ty Lee is supposed to be depicted as the closest thing to a valley girl. And yes, despite the radical differences in personality, and what one would expect Mai does not at all seem to mind Ty Lee's personality.
> 
> As for the sixth ranger, you will see soon enough.


Goth is actually just a style, the depressed and cynical is emo.

Something about Mai is just so damn familiar, I can't put my finger on it, but I've seen a character who acts, looks, and sounds just like her. Might be deja vu though...


> I would have kissed Katara without hesitation; of course, I am nearly  ten years older than she is currently (I am 23, Katara is 14)


Um, that's really creepy. Though, the reason why that people marry young in medieval times, is because they had shorter life expectancies. People in Avatar, especially benders, have long lifespans. Of course, since the world is embroiled in a century long war, naturally, the leading causes of death is murder, execution, starvation, what have you. That probably balances out to something.

Being a Nick show, there's not much, if any about sexual culture in AtlA. Though, we do know pre-arranged marriages exist from place to place, and there are marriages where each one has a choice. Age of consent is an unknown.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 27, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Funny enough, you'll actually get to witness some substance intoxication coming up in a later episode. It's a fan favorite moment.



Yes, I have heard about that, so I shall definitely be anticipating that episode eagerly.

I see that Bumi wished to remain in Omashu, for remaining steadfast is a part of the philosophy of earth-bending. I imagine that Aang will experience greater difficulty in learning to earth-bend than he did in learning to water-bend, for the principles and philosophy of earth-bending are very different from those of air- or water-bending.



Level7N00b said:


> That's actually kind of a bad idea. It makes the Avatar meaningless if someone else can bend more than one element.



I must disagree with your opinion here, Level 7 Noob; the purpose of the Avatar is to serve as the link between the mortal world and the spirit world while also maintaining balance in the mortal world, and I do not believe that such a task necessitates the monopoly of the Avatar on bending more than one element. As long as another person can bend only two or three elements, but not all four, and does not have the same level of skill that the Avatar possesses in doing so, I do not imagine that the Avatar would become unnecessary. Plus, I severely dislike seeing one character in any fictional series completely overshadow other characters (major offenders in this area include Goku from _Dragon Ball,_ Naruto, Sasuke, and Madra in _Naruto,_ and Aizen and Ichigo from _Bleach)._

This series draws on ancient Asian myths and folklore, although I believe that the idea of four basic elements is Greek in origin, but in both Asian and Greek folklore, there exists the idea of _void_ or _ether,_ absolute nothingness or pure spiritual energy. I have had an idea since I started following this series, and I wish to ask about it.

If, in a fan-fiction, I were to introduce the concept of the void as an element, would doing so disrupt the established mechanics and fundamental principles of the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_ On one side, the idea of four elements is very strong and there has been no mention of a fifth element, but on the other side, the revelation of a fifth element could add a level of surprise and mystery to a fan-written story, and also make for an interesting antagonist, one who wishes to return the world to a state of nothingness and oblivion. What can anyone here say about that?


----------



## Wan (Sep 27, 2010)

The Avatar is meant to keep balance, and to do he or she is granted more power than ordinary benders by being able to bend all four elements.  I'm of the opinion that having cross-bred benders controlling two or three elements undermines the Avatar in both a tactical sense and an authoritative sense- the Avatar just wouldn't be so special anymore.  Normal benders already can rival the Avatar when it comes to sheer bending power in their single element- King Bumi and Master Pakku are a couple examples of this you've already seen (Pakku even pulled off the same water-spout technique that Aang used in the series premiere).  So I would be firmly opposed to there being benders of multiple elements- that is, unless the point of introducing them _is_ to undermine the Avatar.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 27, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> The Avatar is meant to keep balance, and to do he or she is granted more power than ordinary benders by being able to bend all four elements.  I'm of the opinion that having cross-bred benders controlling two or three elements undermines the Avatar in both a tactical sense and an authoritative sense- the Avatar just wouldn't be so special anymore.  Normal benders already can rival the Avatar when it comes to sheer bending power in their single element- King Bumi and Master Pakku are a couple examples of this you've already seen (Pakku even pulled off the same water-spout technique that Aang used in the series premiere).  So I would be firmly opposed to there being benders of multiple elements- *that is, unless the point of introducing them is to undermine the Avatar.*



What if a normal bender wished to take the Avatar's power for their own? Not in the way that General Fong did, but to actually siphon the Avatar's power from their body into their own? Would that make an interesting plot?

And why should the Avatar be so special? Have you read _Naruto_ or _Bleach?_ Several main characters in each of those series have recently become so powerful that all other characters seem nearly useless in comparison, and many users here, including myself, greatly dislike that. The Avatar being far above any other bender in power is making him or her a "Mary Sue," a character who is perfect and has no significant flaws in comparison to other characters in the same work. I know that Aang is not perfect or without flaws, but it still seems unfair that only he can bend more than one element. Once he masters all the elements, no other bender can hope to be a fair opponent for him, so it does not seem right for only one being to have such great power.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 27, 2010)

Using Bleach really isn't a good example, Kubo is a bad mangaka in every sense of the word.

Because the Avatar is that special, more important than any one individual. Having multiple people controlling more than one element would kill the Avatar's significance.

Benders like Ozai, Bumi, Iroh, Pakku, and Jeong Jeong at the absolute strongest can likely give the Avatar a good run for his money. Imagine them with another bending discipline under their belt. That's mean anybody them could, if they chose, do the Avatar's job themselves, making the Avatar a moot point. So it's not like the Avatar is god, he can very well be defeated, however in a open on one battle, anyone would likely be smart to head for the hills.


----------



## Wan (Sep 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What if a normal bender wished to take the Avatar's power for their own? Not in the way that General Fong did, but to actually siphon the Avatar's power from their body into their own? Would that make an interesting plot?
> 
> And why should the Avatar be so special? Have you read _Naruto_ or _Bleach?_ Several main characters in each of those series have recently become so powerful that all other characters seem nearly useless in comparison, and many users here, including myself, greatly dislike that. The Avatar being far above any other bender in power is making him or her a "Mary Sue," a character who is perfect and has no significant flaws in comparison to other characters in the same work. I know that Aang is not perfect or without flaws, but it still seems unfair that only he can bend more than one element. Once he masters all the elements, no other bender can hope to be a fair opponent for him, so it does not seem right for only one being to have such great power.



My point is not that the Avatar exclusively controlling multiple elements is a good thing regarding the story.  My point is that, like it or not, it already is that way in the show.  Introducing multi-element benders would undermine Aang's importance.  It would make Aang's quest to master the elements in order to defeat the Fire Lord pointless, as some average Joe who happens to control multiple elements could do the same.  It would also make meaningless the connection the Avatar provides between the nations, as he or she is continuously reincarnated in a cycle. Whether or not the focus on the Avatar is a good thing, if the focus was lost the show would lose its identity.  It's called _Avatar_, after all.

But with that said, I don't really agree that focusing on a single character is an entirely bad thing.  Much mythology and modern storytelling do the same thing.  We see the focus on a single hero in the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh and the Anglo-Saxon Epic of Beowulf.  We see it throughout Greek mythology- Heracles, Perseus, Achilles, etc.  We see it in modern stories- Luke Skywalker in Star Wars, Superman and Batman, etc.  The Lord of the Rings would have lost a good amount of dramatic effect if any of the Fellowship could carry the Ring.  Yes, such focus runs the risk of creating a "Mary Sue", but does not necessarily produce that.


----------



## SuperCoolCola (Sep 27, 2010)

like uncle iroh once said..."mordin solus is right,the avatar has his job,so shut the fuck up,and choose ur own destiny"


----------



## Wan (Sep 27, 2010)

That's...rather rude.  I can't imagine Iroh being so insulting.


----------



## SuperCoolCola (Sep 27, 2010)

XD ur right,uncle iroh would spank me T.T


----------



## Muk (Sep 28, 2010)

and you'd like it


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 28, 2010)

Fire spank!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 28, 2010)

Bloody hell, let's debate the word "filler" or something.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 28, 2010)

Jove said:


> I think it's hogwash, not merely because* an original story by definition cannot contain filler* but because they are truly gripping and enchanting episodes.


Speaking of The Beach...


DemonDragonJ said:


> Well, caffeine is a drug, and some people are concerned about children seeing depictions of drug intoxication in visual media, so I thought that some people would consider it to be risque because it may encourage children to consume caffeine.


Well, it is portrayed in a rather bad light in the show.
Caffeine itself is a socially-accepted drug, for the most part, anyways.


DemonDragonJ said:


> I must disagree with your opinion here, Level 7 Noob; the purpose of the Avatar is to serve as the link between the mortal world and the spirit world while also maintaining balance in the mortal world, and I do not believe that such a task necessitates the monopoly of the Avatar on bending more than one element. As long as another person can bend only two or three elements, but not all four, and does not have the same level of skill that the Avatar possesses in doing so, I do not imagine that the Avatar would become unnecessary.


I always thought that the Avatar's ability also came from being reincarnated as benders of different elements. It's never touched on whether or not everyone else in the Avatar-verse also goes through the cycle of reincarnation.

If they aren't and the Avatar's ability does lie with reincarnation, then they wouldn't be able to bend more than one element because they wouldn't have that connection.


> This series draws on ancient Asian myths and folklore, although I believe that the idea of four basic elements is Greek in origin, but in both Asian and Greek folklore, there exists the idea of _void_ or _ether,_ absolute nothingness or pure spiritual energy. I have had an idea since I started following this series, and I wish to ask about it.


Obligatory "Just keep watching" comment.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 28, 2010)

Actually, there can be filler in an unadapted series, nothing of consequence should happen, and it should never be referenced again in the canon


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 28, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Actually, there can be filler in an unadapted series, nothing of consequence should happen, and it should never be referenced again in the canon



That's not filler, just an inconsequential part of the story.

Anyway, it's accomplished it's diversionary task.


----------



## Wan (Sep 29, 2010)

Well folks looks like The Last Airbender made 300 million worldwide.



Since it has managed to make a profit Nickelodeon will probably greenlight a Book 2 movie.  Let's pray that Shyamalamadingdong is kicked out of any involvement with the sequel.


----------



## Shade (Sep 29, 2010)

^ DDDDDDDDDDD:


----------



## Ryth76 (Sep 29, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Well folks looks like The Last Airbender made 300 million worldwide.
> 
> 
> 
> Since it has managed to make a profit Nickelodeon will probably greenlight a Book 2 movie.



God, no!! 



Mordin Solus said:


> Let's pray that Shyamalamadingdong is kicked out of any involvement with the sequel.



Yes, please, Nickelodeon take a hint and get rid of the guy!


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 29, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Goth is actually just a style, the depressed and cynical is emo.
> 
> Something about Mai is just so damn familiar, I can't put my finger on it, but I've seen a character who acts, looks, and sounds just like her. Might be deja vu though...



Level7noob isn't that far off.



> *Bryan Konietzko* -  She's our interpretation of a stereotypical goth teenager or something and I just imagined her in her dark bedroom throwing stuff into the wall. It just grew out of this boredom.



There he was explaining Mai's specialty of stiletto throwing. 
And then there's this.



> *Cricket Leigh *(voice of Mai) -
> I've been doing "Mai" for 3 seasons & this year we were nominated for an Emmy, so it's a pretty cool gig. I love that I can play this teenaged *Chinese* Goth air bender!



I highlighted something I found interesting in that quote.
Anyway "depressed and cynical" are adjectives that can more closely be associated with Generation X and the grunge movement. Emo is more about wearing your heart on your sleeve, Well at least it used to be in my era.


----------



## Ryth76 (Sep 29, 2010)

Goth is often cynical, somewhat depressed in a less extreme way than 'emo', dark poetry spouting, somber, and almost arrogant with very interesting tastes in clothing. 

Emo is always overly emotional in a negative sense (sad, etc), really depressed, weepy, depressed poetry spouting (usually very emotional), sometimes cynical, and many emos will actually _paint cuts_ on their arms and _show them off_.  

Mai was definitely not emo.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 29, 2010)

I could talk about what is and isn't emo for days but watch this - 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY-mlfb94j4&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

The fans are saying that this confirms the wasted potential of Noah Ringer as Aang.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 29, 2010)

Goth and emo are genres of music. After that, who cares. But yes, Mai is more goth. And a lot of the pipas and such they play on the show work best played very much akin to a post-punk style, which is the basis of Goth. So... Goth.


This doesn't reflect well on M. Night's visionary capabilities when Noah Ringer's normal speaking voice and tone are pretty identical to Movie Aang's, who was supposed to be a sullen, bereaved character. Why not just maintain's Aang's television persona, in that case?


----------



## Koi (Sep 29, 2010)

Awh man, I really like Noah.


----------



## Wan (Sep 29, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I could talk about what is and isn't emo for days but watch this -
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY-mlfb94j4&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> The fans are saying that this confirms the wasted potential of Noah Ringer as Aang.



Yeah, that kid could easily have played Aang's true personality under the right direction.  Just another bit of the original series' spirit that Shyamalan took and crushed beneath his heel.

I've heard that Noah was a fan of the show before.  I wonder if he ever said "But this isn't the way it happened on the show" and then Shyamalan was like, "Shut up, this is the way I'm doing it."


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 29, 2010)

I still can't get over some of the hate leveled on this kid. I mean, it certainly wasn't as bad as what Nicola Peltz or Jackson Rathbone got from fans. Actually, I'd say most people were pretty rational about reserving their hatred for the people in charge and not Noah. And it's hard to overlook that he has a very accurate Aang look to him.


But I still can't get over people talking about how his "forms" were off, and other such nonsense, after the first teaser trailer. Obviously they were implying, and sometimes explicitly stated, that an Asian kid would have done better.

Noah Ringer is a goddamn martial arts prodigy. The kid already has black belts. His forms are fine. I'm still very steamed about all of this.


----------



## Superrazien (Sep 29, 2010)

Jove said:


> I still can't get over some of the hate leveled on this kid. I mean, it certainly wasn't as bad as what Nicola Peltz or Jackson Rathbone got from fans. Actually, I'd say most people were pretty rational about reserving their hatred for the people in charge and not Noah. And it's hard to overlook that he has a very accurate Aang look to him.
> 
> 
> But I still can't get over people talking about how his "forms" were off, and other such nonsense, after the first teaser trailer. Obviously they were implying, and sometimes explicitly stated, that an Asian kid would have done better.
> ...



Nothing against Noah but black belts in most Americanized martial arts, is little more than false hope.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 29, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Nothing against Noah but black belts in most Americanized martial arts, is little more than false hope.


Truth.

Also, it's hard for me to believe that's Noah, HE HAS LIFE AND EMOTION.


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## Wan (Sep 29, 2010)

Yeah.  I had a "black belt" in Tae Kwon Do when I was 12 but certainly wasn't any kind of prodigy.  The instructors were more focused on satisfying the "Black belt in 3 years!" guarantee my parents paid for.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 29, 2010)

God bless America, and all its McDojos


----------



## Koi (Sep 29, 2010)

Really all that video shows is that Shamwow had a complete and utter disregard for his source material.  I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 29, 2010)

During _Return to Omashu,_ I see that Ty Lee can indeed fight, that her fighting style does incorporate her acrobatic skills, and that she uses pressure-point attacks, which no one else in the entire series has used thus far. Now that there are two non-benders who are competent fighters and can actually match a bender, at lest for a certain duration, I feel that Sokka really needs to improve himself if he is to remain relevant as the series continues.

I finished watching _The Swamp_ earlier today, although I have been busy, so I could not post about it until now, and I found it interesting that Hu could make the vines move with his water-bending. Although it was still bending, it was good to see a more esoteric use of such ability, for I do not imagine that many other water-benders can manipulate plants by bending the water within them. And while I am on that subject, I liked how Aang was able to synchronize with the entire swamp and sense the life-force of all the creatures living within it, although my enthusiasm from that ability was somewhat dampened by the fact that it was a function of Aang being the Avatar. I am still waiting, and hoping, to see supernatural powers that are not related to either bending or the Avatar.

Does anyone here believe that the tribe that the trio encountered in the swamp seemed modeled after people from the southern United States? I do not wish to be insulting or discriminatory, but their personalities, accents, and manners of speech certainly seemed to suggest such a possibility.

I noticed that Zuko's hair was black originally, but after he cut it, and allowed it to grow back, it is regrowing as a brownish-gray color. Why is that? Was he using dye before, or now? Or has it changed because of the great stress and turmoil that Zuko is currently experiencing? Or did the animators simply make such a change on a whim?


----------



## Wan (Sep 30, 2010)

Well, Sokka did save Katara after Ty Lee disabled her bending, didn't he?

The swamp benders are stereotypical hillbillies, just like the nomads were stereotypical hippies.  You'll see another (hilarious) stereotype in an upcoming episode.

As for Zuko's hair, it's still black.  That will become clear as it get longer.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 30, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> During _Return to Omashu,_ I see that Ty Lee can indeed fight, that her fighting style does incorporate her acrobatic skills, and that she uses pressure-point attacks, which no one else in the entire series has used thus far. Now that there are two non-benders who are competent fighters and can actually match a bender, at lest for a certain duration, I feel that Sokka really needs to improve himself if he is to remain relevant as the series continues.
> 
> I finished watching _The Swamp_ earlier today, although I have been busy, so I could not post about it until now, and I found it interesting that Hu could make the vines move with his water-bending. Although it was still bending, it was good to see a more esoteric use of such ability, for I do not imagine that many other water-benders can manipulate plants by bending the water within them. And while I am on that subject, I liked how Aang was able to synchronize with the entire swamp and sense the life-force of all the creatures living within it, although my enthusiasm from that ability was somewhat dampened by the fact that it was a function of Aang being the Avatar. I am still waiting, and hoping, to see supernatural powers that are not related to either bending or the Avatar.
> 
> ...


I think it's apt, their appearance is modeled after south east asians

Also, THROWDOWN


----------



## Koi (Sep 30, 2010)

Zuko's hair was lighter because when your hair is cropped close it's not as thick in appearance.  There's no density to it.  It'll get dark as it grows out.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 30, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Does anyone here believe that the tribe that the trio encountered in the swamp seemed modeled after people from the southern United States? I do not wish to be insulting or discriminatory, but their personalities, accents, and manners of speech certainly seemed to suggest such a possibility.



That's exactly who they are based upon. 




DemonDragonJ said:


> I am still waiting, and hoping, to see supernatural powers that are not related to either bending or the Avatar



You're basically asking for the entire conceit of the show to be undermined. 

Although there is one character that is close, he is still a bender. Just a very unique one.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 30, 2010)

Jove said:


> You're basically asking for the entire conceit of the show to be undermined.



How is that so? I do not see how introducing powers other than bending or the Avatar would undermine anything; that would simply be another fascinating aspect of the universe of this series. Bending is awesome, but it is also limited; manipulating the four elements can go only so far; what about telepathy, teleportation, shapeshifting, invisibility, illusions, transmutation of substances, superhuman strength, speed, and endurance, and other common magical abilities from traditional fantasy? Why do they not have a place in _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_


----------



## Nodonn (Sep 30, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How is that so? I do not see how introducing powers other than bending or the Avatar would undermine anything; that would simply be another fascinating aspect of the universe of this series. Bending is awesome, but it is also limited; manipulating the four elements can go only so far; what about telepathy, teleportation, shapeshifting, invisibility, illusions, transmutation of substances, superhuman strength, speed, and endurance, and other common magical abilities from traditional fantasy? Why do they not have a place in _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_



Because the entire world is built on bending.
The world is divided in 4 nations and all of their cultures lean heavily on their respective elements.
Adding something like teleportation to that would be totally out of place.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 30, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How is that so? I do not see how introducing powers other than bending or the Avatar would undermine anything; that would simply be another fascinating aspect of the universe of this series. Bending is awesome, but it is also limited; manipulating the four elements can go only so far; what about telepathy, teleportation, shapeshifting, invisibility, illusions, transmutation of substances, superhuman strength, speed, and endurance, and other common magical abilities from traditional fantasy? Why do they not have a place in _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_



What purpose would they serve? Bending exists because of the Avatar; without the Avatar Spirit, it would be our world with differently shaped continents. It's the philosophy of the show. There's no basis for any other ability. It would undermine the substance of the show.

This makes as much sense to me as wishing there was more blood and realistic violence and gore in the story and animation.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 30, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How is that so? I do not see how introducing powers other than bending or the Avatar would undermine anything; that would simply be another fascinating aspect of the universe of this series. Bending is awesome, but it is also limited; manipulating the four elements can go only so far; what about telepathy, teleportation, shapeshifting, invisibility, illusions, transmutation of substances, superhuman strength, speed, and endurance, and other common magical abilities from traditional fantasy? Why do they not have a place in _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_



Don't get your hopes too far up. it is not going to happen. The series id built around bending as the main supernatural powers of the show. And the four bending arts go beyond what you think of immediately, you merely need to use your imagination, such as a certain Waterbender will show later on. Only spirits would likely exhibit any of the powers you mentioned.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 30, 2010)

Except to them, bending is as vanilla as ballet.


----------



## Burke (Sep 30, 2010)

I like you J.

Also, i wont reveal much to you, but sokka gains majo relevence much later on


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 30, 2010)

Very well, I shall concede that it does seem unlikely to me that any supernatural powers not related to bending or the Avatar will appear in this series. They may be out of place in this series, so I am glad that they exist in other fictional series.

I made a mistake earlier: when I said that Mai and Ty Lee were the first non-benders to be competent fighters, I forgot about Suki and the warriors of Kyoshi; they were actually the first non-benders to be competent fighters who were seen in the series. My new complaint is that nearly every bender is overly reliant upon their abilities as a bender. Apart from one or two scenes of Zuko and Iroh fighting several opponents hand-to-hand, nearly every bender in this series has been using their power exclusively for fighting. I would like to see benders who are not overly reliant upon their powers in this series.



Nøøps said:


> I like you J.
> 
> Also, i wont reveal much to you, but sokka gains majo relevence much later on



I expect him to, because he is the sibling of the lead female character and a major character in his own right.

And when you say that you like me, why do you say that, and in what way do you like me?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 30, 2010)

There's some. And obviously Iroh and Zuko can't bend while refugees in the Earth Kingdom, right? A little after halfway through the season you're going to see an astounding fight.

And although Azula is an extremely adept fighter aside from her bending, her use of perspicacity and strategy is clearly her greatest advantage.


----------



## Burke (Sep 30, 2010)

You provide a sense of nostalgia to the entire thread as we, the old fans, remember a time when _we_ were new to the lore of the avatar universe! Im jsut happy that you are able to view the episodes one right after the other with no annoying 6 month+ long hiatus


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 30, 2010)

Zuko is far from defenseless without bending. It is just that he is likely more at home with it. As the Blue Spirit, he snuck into a Fire Nation fortress, filled with soldiers and rescued Aang, with only the swords on his back, and one badass Oni mask.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 30, 2010)

N??ps said:


> You provide a sense of nostalgia to the entire thread as we, the old fans, remember a time when _we_ were new to the lore of the avatar universe! Im jsut happy that you are able to view the episodes one right after the other with no annoying 6 month+ long hiatus



I look back with fondness even towards the hiatus. The agony of Summer 2007, the unpredictability of Spring 2008...



Level7N00b said:


> Zuko is far from defenseless without bending. It is just that he is likely more at home with it. As the Blue Spirit, he snuck into a Fire Nation fortress, filled with soldiers and rescued Aang, with only the swords on his back, and one badass Oni mask.



Well, let's face it... Zuko as the Blue Spirit was essentially unbeatable. Fully Realized Avatars and a certain sentient messenger hawk would be the only feasible matches.


----------



## Wan (Sep 30, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I made a mistake earlier: when I said that Mai and Ty Lee were the first non-benders to be competent fighters, I forgot about Suki and the warriors of Kyoshi; they were actually the first non-benders to be competent fighters who were seen in the series. My new complaint is that nearly every bender is overly reliant upon their abilities as a bender. Apart from one or two scenes of Zuko and Iroh fighting several opponents hand-to-hand, nearly every bender in this series has been using their power exclusively for fighting. I would like to see benders who are not overly reliant upon their powers in this series.



Don't forget Jet.  Or the pirates.  Or Jun and her shirshu.


----------



## Level7N00b (Sep 30, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Don't forget Jet.  Or the pirates.  Or Jun and her shirshu.



Longshot was decent as well.


----------



## Wan (Sep 30, 2010)

Speaking of archers, there's the Yuu Yan archers as well.


----------



## Superrazien (Sep 30, 2010)

Koi said:


> Really all that video shows is that Shamwow had a complete and utter disregard for his source material.  I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY.



I am still convinced that he actually couldn't stand Avatar. Maybe his kids made him watch it, so for revenge he raped the movie in every way. Even going so far as to cast a great choice for Aang (Or ONG!) and then changing Aangs character completely.


----------



## Wan (Sep 30, 2010)

No, he did like Avatar.  He did pay attention to major events- Aang finding the remains of the Air Nomads, the story of Zuko's agni kai, the Blue Spirit, etc.- and try to adapt them to a movie.  Where he erred is the audience he made the movie for.  He basically made the movie for himself. He removed the spirit of the original show and replaced it with his preferred spirit, what he thinks the show could and should have been.  Unfortunately, what he thinks the show should have been is vastly different than what the rest of the fans wanted.

Basically, he made a big-budget fanfiction rewrite of Book 1 rather than a movie for all fans to watch.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 30, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Don't forget Jet.  Or the pirates.  Or Jun and her shirshu.





Level7N00b said:


> Longshot was decent as well.





Mordin Solus said:


> Speaking of archers, there's the Yuu Yan archers as well.



So, I was wrong again; there have actually been many competent fighters thus far who are not benders, it is simply that Sokka is not yet one of those fighters; I really hope that he becomes more badass soon.


----------



## Piekage (Oct 1, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> No, he did like Avatar.  He did pay attention to major events- Aang finding the remains of the Air Nomads, the story of Zuko's agni kai, the Blue Spirit, etc.- and try to adapt them to a movie.  Where he erred is the audience he made the movie for.  He basically made the movie for himself. He removed the spirit of the original show and replaced it with his preferred spirit, what he thinks the show could and should have been.  Unfortunately, what he thinks the show should have been is vastly different than what the rest of the fans wanted.
> 
> Basically, he made a big-budget fanfiction rewrite of Book 1 rather than a movie for all fans to watch.



That, and the fact that he shoved too much shit into too short a runtime. 

I think M Night liked the show, but he just wasn't right for the movie, because he's a fan and every fan has different ideas on what the show is about and how it should be. I'm sure Zutarians love (certain parts of) the show, but they would never be able to adapt it into a good movie, for obvious reasons. IMO the people that should have directed the movie should have been the creators themselves, or at least give them a large input on the project.



> So, I was wrong again; there have actually been many competent fighters thus far who are not benders, it is simply that Sokka is not yet one of those fighters; I really hope that he becomes more badass soon.



He will.


----------



## Sonikk (Oct 1, 2010)

Sucks
If you are only between the age 12 and 15 you should watch it. I don't recommend to watch this movie for the ages above 16.


----------



## Superrazien (Oct 1, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> No, he did like Avatar.  He did pay attention to major events- Aang finding the remains of the Air Nomads, the story of Zuko's agni kai, the Blue Spirit, etc.- and try to adapt them to a movie.  Where he erred is the audience he made the movie for.  He basically made the movie for himself. He removed the spirit of the original show and replaced it with his preferred spirit, what he thinks the show could and should have been.  Unfortunately, what he thinks the show should have been is vastly different than what the rest of the fans wanted.
> 
> Basically, he made a big-budget fanfiction rewrite of Book 1 rather than a movie for all fans to watch.



Well you don't need to be a fan to know major events. You could just Wikipedia it. Considering the way he presented those major events was full of fail, and nothing like the show. Oh and don't get me started on Sozens comet, you want to talk about major events. How about leaving the most major event out of the movie, until the very last scene. Oh and no ROKU! lol its w/e though its already made. I just get so mad when I think about it.


----------



## ღMomoღ (Oct 1, 2010)

Sonikk said:


> Sucks
> If you are only between the age 12 and 15 you should watch it. I don't recommend to watch this movie for the ages above 16.



why is that?
even my mom really likes it


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 1, 2010)

Well, you have to be good at martial arts to be a good bender.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 1, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, you have to be good at martial arts to be a good bender.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Combustion Man


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 1, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Combustion Man


Seemed like a more internal fighter


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 1, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Combustion Man



Oh please, Boskov. You know what you're doing there. Speaking of, we actually don't know his capabilities as a fighter. He was able to parry Zuko pretty effortlessly.

And obviously he works out.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 1, 2010)

You like muscular men, Jove?


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 1, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Combustion Man




*Spoiler*: __ 



Is far from helpless without bending.


----------



## Noah (Oct 1, 2010)

Sonikk said:


> Sucks
> If you are only between the age 12 and 15 you should watch it. I don't recommend to watch this movie for the ages above 16.



Phew. It's a good think you said movie. We sure did dodge a bullet there.


Anyway. If you can't appreciate the epic that is Sokka now, then you might not be prepared for the galactic(literally) that is Sokka later on.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 1, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> You like muscular men, Jove?



I don't know character design art, but I know what I like. 



Noah said:


> Anyway. If you can't appreciate the epic that is Sokka now, then you might not be prepared for the galactic(literally) that is Sokka later on.



Who truly was? I think we all were specifically because this thread trained us.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 1, 2010)

I just finished watching _Avatar Day,_ and Mayor Tong reminded me very much of the Emperor's advisor from Disney's _Mulan;_ even their voices were similar.

To the best of my recollection, this episode was Kyoshi's first proper appearance in the series (any previous appearance of hers was only in paintings or when Roku was speaking of the cycle of reincarnation to Aang) and her first speaking appearance in the series. I hope that she appears again.

I see that Zuko has parted ways with Iroh; I wonder what adventures each of them will have next?



Noah said:


> Anyway. If you can't appreciate the epic that is Sokka now, then you might not be prepared for the galactic(literally) that is Sokka later on.



I am sorry, but at the point in the series at which I am now, Sokka does not at all match my idea of "epic," although I am certain that later, he shall.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 1, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _Avatar Day,_ and Mayor Tong reminded me very much of the Emperor's advisor from Disney's _Mulan;_ even their voices were similar.
> 
> To the best of my recollection, this episode was Kyoshi's first proper appearance in the series (any previous appearance of hers was only in paintings or when Roku was speaking of the cycle of reincarnation to Aang) and her first speaking appearance in the series. I hope that she appears again.
> 
> ...



Book 2: Chapter Seven is very unique and quite a risk for an American kid's show in it's basic conceit, and was the episode that made me start to get serious about the show. I've seen a lot of people say they started to become real fans of the show because of Chapter Seven.

And Chapter Six is a fan favorite, perhaps _the_ fan favorite.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 1, 2010)

Jove said:


> Book 2: Chapter Seven is very unique and quite a risk for an American kid's show in it's basic conceit, and was the episode that made me start to get serious about the show. I've seen a lot of people say they started to become real fans of the show because of Chapter Seven.
> 
> And Chapter Six is a fan favorite, perhaps _the_ fan favorite.



Why is episode six of season 2 a fan-favorite? And I have not yet started watching episode 7 yet, for I am also watching _Teen Titans_ and _X-Men: Evolution_ at the same time as _Avatar,_ so I do not yet know why it is such a significant episode, but I hope to watch it soon today, and when I do, I shall post my thoughts about it.


----------



## Shade (Oct 1, 2010)

I will just leave this here. CDQ DOWNLOAD

The beginning part of the credits at the end is cool though, check that out. Also interesting is the fact that Mike and Bryan's names are mentioned about third or fourth when the credits start. I'm fairly certain this doesn't reflect their actual involvement in the film.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 1, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why is episode six of season 2 a fan-favorite? And I have not yet started watching episode 7 yet, for I am also watching _Teen Titans_ and _X-Men: Evolution_ at the same time as _Avatar,_ so I do not yet know why it is such a significant episode, but I hope to watch it soon today, and when I do, I shall post my thoughts about it.



Have you watched Book Two: Chapter Six yet? It's pretty self-evident.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 2, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Jove said:


> Have you watched Book Two: Chapter Six yet? It's pretty self-evident.



I am watching it now, and I can see what you mean, why many people like it. I liked how Katara was being very seductive with the two boys, but I wish that more of that had been shown, rather than only the end result, with them being frozen in ice. I liked the scene where the trio goes to the competition, which was highly reminiscent of a modern-day wrestling match, although the attitudes that Sokka and Katara displayed during it were too stereotypical for my liking.

I see that Toph displays two different personalities; a mild-mannered wealthy child, and a tough-talking street-wise child, but if she is a member of the prominent Bei Fong family, how does no one know that she exists? The boys at the school said that the Bei Fong family has no daughter, yet her existence does not seem to be a very great secret, from what I have seen thus far. I was expecting Toph's name to be pronounced with a long "O" sound, yet the guards pronounced it was a short "O" sound, and while I am on that subject, "Toph" sounds like a very masculine name to me (i.e., similar to "Topher," as in Topher Grace, who is a man), nor does it sound even remotely Chinese or even Asian, so I find it to be both unfitting for a girl and out of place in this Asian-themed world.

Because this series has been around for several years now, I already know that Toph joins the trio in their adventure, but I thankfully do not know the exact details of that occurrence, so there is still some mystery there for me. I said this already, but does it not seem rather interesting that a character with earth-related powers joins the heroes in the second season of both _Avatar_ and _Teen Titans?_ I am certain that this is merely a coincidence, but the similarities are quite interesting.

Why did the trio leap over the walls of the Bei Fong household? Would it really have been that difficult for them to go to the front gates and seek an audience with the Bei Fong family? *EDIT:* nevermind, I see that they chose to do so, after all. I shall presume that Toph is keeping her earth-bending skill and fights at the stadium a secret from her family because they would not want their daughter engaging in such dangerous activity. I just hope that she is not an annoying brat for the rest of the series.

I see that Toph defeated the Boulder quite easily, and his facial expression when that happened suggested that he had been struck in his testicles, which is now the second time that such an implication has been made in this series (the first time being when Sokka apparently struck two guards in their groins in the first episode of the second season). However, Aang defeated Toph rather easily, which suggests that she is not accustomed to fighting opponents such as him; the Boulder was likely a much more typical opponent for her.

Is the origin of Toph's blindness explained? I am wondering if she was born blind, or if she lost her sense of sight later in life. Please do not say how she became blind, but simply say if that subject is explained in the series itself. *EDIT:* nevermind, again, for I just reached the part where Toph says that she was born blind.

I have only seen very little of Toph currently, but who here thinks that she would be a good romantic match for Aang? She is the same age as him, and thus far seems to be able to relate to him in a way that Katara cannot. I am not saying that I support them as a couple, for I currently support Aang and Katara, the canon couple, but I am merely asking if anyone here has thought that such a pairing would be feasible.

I notice that in the opening sequence of each episode, a bender of each element is shown: Pakku for water, Azula for fire, and Aang for air, but I do not know the earth-bender in the opening. Is he a character who will appear later, or who has already appeared, and I simply have not noticed?

At the end of the episode, I was very surprised that Toph's father did not accept her wish of greater freedom and instead wished to restrict her further; I thought that the display that she gave in the arena would change his mind. Well, I suppose that that was a way for the writers to insert additional drama into the series, and I see that Toph's father has hired Yu and Xin Fu to retrieve Toph; I expect some conflicts and battles to result from that plot twist.


----------



## Koi (Oct 2, 2010)

Shade said:


> I will just leave this here. CDQ DOWNLOAD
> 
> The beginning part of the credits at the end is cool though, check that out. Also interesting is the fact that Mike and Bryan's names are mentioned about third or fourth when the credits start. *I'm fairly certain this doesn't reflect their actual involvement in the film*.



lol definitely not.  There was an interview from a few months ago where they dodged the question while basically disowning the film.  In a classy way, of course, because they are Bryke.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 2, 2010)

Has anyone ever thought of a potential Aang & Toph pairing?

Hmmm...


----------



## Wan (Oct 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I notice that in the opening sequence of each episode, a bender of each element is shown: Pakku for water, Azula for fire, and Aang for air, but I do not know the earth-bender in the opening. Is he a character who will appear later, or who has already appeared, and I simply have not noticed?



The earthbender is the Boulder.


----------



## Koi (Oct 2, 2010)

I multiship the crap out of the Gaang, but for some reason I just can't warm up to Taang.  I can't explain why, but maybe it's because they're both so childish?  That might make me hypocritical because I enjoy Kataang but realize it's not all that great until a few years after the series, but.. Taang just rubs me the wrong way.  I just don't see the chemistry, even potentially.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 2, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Has anyone ever thought of a potential Aang & Toph pairing?
> 
> Hmmm...



I have. But I don't support it, or oppose it. Their personalities and way of thinking are pretty different from what tht other is used to. But at the same time, there is that whole opposites attract thing. In the end, I'm just not for it.


----------



## Koi (Oct 2, 2010)

Some of the fanart is cute though.   But really that goes with any pairing.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 2, 2010)

I actually linked to that in response to DDJ's post from a page back. He's not aware of the Taang 'ship and who supports it the most. Of course I'm talking about those lovely Zutarians. I forgot who wrote that pairing Aang with Toph is more like a consolation prize since he wouldn't have anyone, figuring that Katara must be with Zuko at the end.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 2, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Has anyone ever thought of a potential Aang & Toph pairing?
> 
> Hmmm...



Now I wish that I had bothered to search around myself, for I feel rather foolish for needing another user to find such a link for me.



Mordin Solus said:


> The earthbender is the Boulder.



Why does he appear in the opening sequence? The other three benders are all very important characters to the story, but the Boulder seemed to be more of a one-shot character to me.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 2, 2010)

Tangy orange goodness


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why does he appear in the opening sequence? The other three benders are all very important characters to the story, but the Boulder seemed to be more of a one-shot character to me.



That was going to be Toph's original design, a tall, muscular boy. But they felt like throwing a curve ball and put in a small, fragile looking girl instead. And it was a good idea IMO.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 2, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Tangy orange goodness



What does that mean? Is that a response to another user's question?



Level7N00b said:


> That was going to be Toph's original design, a tall, muscular boy. But they felt like throwing a curve ball and put in a small, fragile looking girl instead. And it was a good idea IMO.



Yes, that make sense; what a clever idea that was.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 2, 2010)

Because the Boulder is the single greatest character in the Avatar universe.


----------



## Burke (Oct 2, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> That was going to be Toph's original design, a tall, muscular boy. But they felt like throwing a curve ball and put in a small, fragile looking girl instead. And it was a good idea IMO.



No way!

Hmm that also adds another level of humor to a certain episode near the end of the series


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 2, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> The earthbender is the Boulder.



Actually, it's


*Spoiler*: __ 



Sud, Roku's Earthbending teacher, who is, in fact, based on the early designs for Toph






Superstarseven said:


> I actually linked to that in response to DDJ's post from a page back. He's not aware of the Taang 'ship and who supports it the most. Of course I'm talking about those lovely Zutarians. I forgot who wrote that pairing Aang with Toph is more like a consolation prize since he wouldn't have anyone, figuring that Katara must be with Zuko at the end.



Oh, brother. Seriously, how can you ship Toph with anyone but Sokka? I can see a few other crack ships, but Aang and Toph and not shippable. Not unless you want to go way outside the series and ship adult versions.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 2, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Has anyone ever thought of a potential Aang & Toph pairing?



This is the Avatar fandom you're talking about here (and when it comes to shipping, I do mean FanDUMB). You can think of any two characters in the series, and I can guarantee you there's an entire community of people out there who ship them. ANY OF THEM!

I'm not going to look (for the sake of my own sanity) but there's probably people who even ship Appa and Ozai.


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## Koi (Oct 2, 2010)

I SHIP ROZIN.  I AM NOT ASHAMED.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Because the Boulder is the single greatest character in the Avatar universe.



[boss]YEEEAH[/boss]


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## Level7N00b (Oct 2, 2010)

Koi said:


> I SHIP ROZIN.  I AM NOT ASHAMED.
> 
> 
> 
> [boss]YEEEAH[/boss]



I'm confident that's a common ship among the yaoi lovers.

I personally am a dedicated Jinko shipper and I ain't afraid to say it.


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## Koi (Oct 2, 2010)

Pfft, Junroh is better.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 3, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Does Toph ever let her hair down later in the series, or is fan-art the only place that I shall be able to see that?

I just watched _Zuko Alone,_ and what a fantastic and awesome episode it was! Finally, an episode focusing on Zuko, my favorite character! Every other episode thus far, has focused on the main trio, so this was a welcome departure from that formula, although I somehow suspect that episodes such as this will be very few and far between. Zuko was already my favorite character, but this episode has cemented his status as such, and it is unlikely that I shall like another character more than him, now. To this day, there has not been a single series that I followed where the main character was my favorite character, and this trend is continued with this series, as well. Does anyone else have such preferences? Who else here finds rivals and side-characters to be more interesting that the heroes?

As for the episode itself, in the flashback, when I saw a young Azula, my first thought was "how did Azula go from being such a sweet child to being the ruthless, domineering, and possibly insane person she is now?" Then, however, as the episode progressed, I saw her knock over Ty Lee after Ty Lee performed a better flip than she had and laugh about it, set fire to an apple on Mai's head so that Zuko would "rescue" Mai, then suggest that if Iroh died, Ozai would be the next heir to the throne. After that, my thought was "how was Azula displaying such behavior at such a young age?" Is she sociopathic, I wonder?

I see that Zuko had an excellent relationship with his mother, Ursa, in complete contrast to his relationship with his father, Ozai. Azula, however, was completely the opposite, displaying hostility toward her mother but affection toward her father. Does anyone here believe that there is a Freudian interpretation to this situation, that both Zuko and Azula have Oedipus Complexes? Why has Ozai's face not been shown yet? Is that to make him more mysterious?

I see that tension between fathers and sons is apparently not unusual in the Fire Nation, for Ozai had tension with his own father, Azulon, and that Azulon apparently was not fond of Zuko, either, asking Ozai to sacrifice him for suggesting that Iroh be disinherited. Zuko really has had a difficult life thus far. I really hope that Zuko confronts his father and stands up to him without fear or hesitation; that would be such an epic scene.

This episode was neither Ozai's first appearance nor his first speaking appearance, but it was his first plot-significant appearance; he is voiced by _Mark Hamill,_ which I find to be utterly awesome, yet his voice does not resemble either Hamill's normal voice nor his voice as the Joker from _Batman: the Animated Series_ (and as a side note, that is my favorite portrayal of the Joker ever), but it is still an excellent voice regardless of that.

I see that Ursa has vanished from Zuko's life; it seems to me that she is dead, but her fate was not explicitly stated, so I shall keep watching to see if she appears or is mentioned again.

This episode reveals how Zuko received the dagger that he has been carrying, and I wonder if it will continue to be important as the series progresses?

Usually, in situations where one sibling overshadows another, it is the older sibling who is the more popular and talented of the two, but here, the younger sibling, Azula, is the one who is favored by her father. I do not mind this departure from the usual archetype, but I still believe that it would have been better if Azula had been the older sibling. There is a reason that most sibling rivalries involve the younger sibling being the underdog (Itachi and Sasuke are an excellent example): it seems more understandable that way. I shall not allow that thought to bother me very greatly, however, and I still like the rivalry between Zuko and Azula regardless of who is the older sibling. I really hope that Zuko defeats Azula eventually, so that he can prove to his father that he is not weak and worthless, and also break Azula's arrogant nature so that she will never look down upon him again. I shall be extremely displeased if anyone but Zuko defeats Azula in the end; she is his designated nemesis, just as Itachi was to Sasuke and Goku and Vegeta were to each other.

I liked how Zuko befriended Gansu and his family, seeing how their life was a difficult struggle, but I cannot believe that everyone shunned and hated him, especially after everything that he did to protect and help them. Will anyone, apart from Iroh, ever acknowledge him and treat him in a friendly manner?

Zuko's swords must have been quite strong to resist the rock being hurled at him by Gow, or perhaps he was infusing them with his _ki?_

Jove, as you said, this episode was very unique and remarkable for a series meant for children, with how it gave such a stark depiction of parental abandonment and the tragedy of losing a relative in warfare. It is very unfortunate that not too many more episodes of this series will be like this one, I am certain.


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## Buskuv (Oct 3, 2010)

You've hit that point where those gears begin to spin, and most people realize there's something between the lines in this series.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You will see Toph let her hair down in the series. But not for any long amount of time. Her hair is about shoulder length, IIRC.

Zuko is also my favorite character, and I do enjoy seeing episodes with him rather than the main characters as well. And, Azula was never a nice child. She only put on a front for her mother, an I get the suspicion she didn't even really buy it.  And the reason for her behavior in the first place will be explained later. But basically, she takes more after er father is the easiest way to say it. 

It is because Ursa and Ozai themselves are different with their children. Azula cannot behave the way she wants to around her mother. But her personality doesn't bother Ozai at all. 

Lets just chalk it up to Zuko's swords being good metal. There are no ki enhanced weapons in Avatar.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Jove, as you said, this episode was very unique and remarkable for a series meant for children, with how it gave such a stark depiction of parental abandonment and the tragedy of losing a relative in warfare. It is very unfortunate that not too many more episodes of this series will be like this one, I am certain.



That, and a kid's show which entirely neglects the main characters for an entire episode. Quite daring, I believe.

Also, I love that episode because it has Spaghetti Western themes. A shrewd use of Western influence in the show.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> You've hit that point where those gears begin to spin, and most people realize there's something between the lines in this series.



I realized that this series has great depth from almost the first episode.


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## Buskuv (Oct 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I realized that this series has great depth from almost the first episode.



I know; I've read all of your posts.  

I felt there was something else working underneath everything within the first couple of episodes--simply by the presentation of the subject matter, and the take on it.

I meant most people.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 3, 2010)

Superior metallurgy perhaps, bending enhances metallurgy by a lot, also, metallurgic culture in China is quite extensive, and to the world's knowledge, is so far, the first culture to use chromium in metals to enhance durability. They also had a lot of techniques that persist to this day.


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## Burke (Oct 3, 2010)

I need to greatly expand my vocabulary. Jove and J's conversation is beyond my abilities.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 3, 2010)

You know, I started to read Naruto again...

*Spoiler*: __ 




The whole elemental ninjutsu thing, originating out of a neutral ninjutsu thing seems awfully familiar...


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 3, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You know, I started to read Naruto again...
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Mike and Bryan ripped them off.


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## Superstarseven (Oct 3, 2010)

I think that I'm going to post up that Avatar Spirits documentary. Perhaps make it a permanent part of my signature so that no one misses out on it.
Anyone here opposed to that idea? I distinctly recall ddl's of season 3 episodes on this thread after they aired.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 3, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Nøøps said:


> I need to greatly expand my vocabulary. Jove and J's conversation is beyond my abilities.



I am very glad that I am helping you to learn new words,  or, as I should say, I am most exuberant to be informed that my discourses and interactions with the other inhabitants of this electronic community are facilitating the development and expansion of your inventory of words. 



ReikaiDemon said:


> You know, I started to read Naruto again...
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



If you are refrring to the fact that _Avatar_ and _Naruto_ are very similar to each other, many people apart from have noticed, and I wish to mention that _Naruto_ originated in 1999, six years before _Avatar_ originated in 2005, so _Naruto_ used the idea before _Avatar_ did. However, the idea of being able to control the elements of nature is almost as old as humanity itself, so no one series can claim to have originated that idea, nor would it fair or wise to accuse one series of copying another in regards to that subject.

I noticed in the previous episode that Ursa had long sharp fingernails, just as Azula does, which I find to be rather unusual; such an adornment seems perfectly suitable for Azula, but very bizarre on Ursa, contrasting her gentle and caring personality.

I just finished watching _The Chase,_ and I see that Toph is being problematic for the rest of the team; I dislike her attitude, but tension between the protagonists of a series helps to make the plot more interesting and shows that the heroes are not flawless. I liked how she met up with Iroh and the conversation she had with him, and was very glad the she rejoined the heroes at the end. It was very pleasing to see everyone united against Azula in such a manner, and seeing Aang, Katara, Toph, and Zuko each fire an attack of their element was amazingly impressive. However, Azula being able to repel all four attacks simultaneously was also quite impressive, as was her clever observation that Aang was attempting to deceive her by trailing Appa's fur in one direction while Appa himself flew in another direction. The part where she knew who went in which direction must have been a lucky guess, for there was no evidence that it was Aang who was carrying Appa's fur while Katara and Sokka were the ones riding Appa himself.

I enjoyed seeing Mai and Ty Lee fight again, and I see that Sokka actually fought quite well himself this time, at least for a short duration; I am very pleased by that. So, this is where the line "victory is boring" originated; I never imagined that its initial use would be rather unrelated to how it is most often used.

Mai and Ty Lee's interactions with each other definitely seems similar to those of Raven and Starfire from the _Teen Titans_ animated series; I had made such an observation after watching _Return to Omashu,_ but the was only the first time that I had seen those two, so I now have further observed them and their behavior, and am certain on that subject.

The three-way battle (and I mean a violent battle, in which the combatants are seeking to kill each other, not the other type of battle, although that would also be exciting to watch, albeit in a different manner) between Aang, Azula, and Zuko was very thrilling to watch; each of them was trying to eliminate the other two, making the conflict much more complex. I did find a certain amount of humor in the fact that when both Azula and Zuko chased Aang into the ruined building, Azula was able to avoid falling off the ledge, while Zuko ran right off it to the floor below. Zuko is my favorite character, but I am sorry to say that just that one time, I laughed at his expense.

I have decided that Azula might now be my favorite character after Zuko, for I like her strategic abilities, fire-bending prowess, and the fact that she is a female "magnificent bastard," an archetype that is usually male (i.e., Emperor Palpatine, Lelouch vi Britannia, Light Yagami, David Xanatos, and Sosuke Aizen). Also, when one sibling overshadows another sibling, they usually are of the same gender, so seeing a rivalry between two siblings of opposite genders is a welcome departure from the normal depiction (and it certainly helps, or at least does not hinder, fans imagining incestuous relationships between those siblings).

I knew immediately that Azula had a plan when she apparently surrendered to the heroes, but if Iroh was also suspicious, why was he surprised by Azula's sudden attack? I shall presume that Azula attacked him because he was likely the most powerful bender present in that scene at the time, so by eliminating him, Azula weakened her foes.

The vehicle that Azula was using to pursue the heroes was very awesome, but how is it that only the Fire Nation has such advanced technology in comparison to the other nations? While I am asking that question, how is it that only the air-benders were eliminated by the Fire Nation, when both earth-benders and water-benders still exist? Both of those phenomena seem to be rather unfair, maybe not from an in-universe perspective, but definitely from an out-of-universe perspective (i.e., the writers were being biased). What can anyone else say about that?

By the way, I have noticed that nearly every bender in this series moves their body to bend an element, and when Mai pinned Katara's arms to the tree, Katara could not bend the water. In fact, only Bumi has used his bending power through willpower alone, which make me wish to ask: do most benders need to physically move their body to manipulate an element?


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 3, 2010)

By the way, I spoilered it because you haven't seen the very end of the series yet, so you don't know what I'm talking about yet anyways...


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## Wan (Oct 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The part where she knew who went in which direction must have been a lucky guess, for there was no evidence that it was Aang who was carrying Appa's fur while Katara and Sokka were the ones riding Appa himself.



Well, the broken trees had to be done by Appa, and the trail had to be left by someone flying.  Aang is the only one able to fly apart from Appa.  Logical conclusion:  Aang left the trail.



> I knew immediately that Azula had a plan when she apparently surrendered to the heroes, but if Iroh was also suspicious, why was he surprised by Azula's sudden attack? I shall presume that Azula attacked him because he was likely the most powerful bender present in that scene at the time, so by eliminating him, Azula weakened her foes.



Perhaps Iroh was expecting an attack on the others, thus diverting attention from himself.  Or he worried that Zuko would take that opportunity to get Aang.  Whatever the reason, Azula noticed Iroh's distraction, and exploited it.



> The vehicle that Azula was using to pursue the heroes was very awesome, but how is it that only the Fire Nation has such advanced technology in comparison to the other nations? While I am asking that question, how is it that only the air-benders were eliminated by the Fire Nation, when both earth-benders and water-benders still exist? Both of those phenomena seem to be rather unfair, maybe not from an in-universe perspective, but definitely from an out-of-universe perspective (i.e., the writers were being biased). What can anyone else say about that?



Presumably their knowledge of fire and how it works helps them in working with steam and combustion engines, and the other nations lack this knowledge.



> By the way, I have noticed that nearly every bender in this series moves their body to bend an element, and when Mai pinned Katara's arms to the tree, Katara could not bend the water. In fact, only Bumi has used his bending power through willpower alone, which make me wish to ask: do most benders need to physically move their body to manipulate an element



Most do.  The exception to this seem to be an Avatar in the Avatar State, for doing things like maintaining an air sphere.  Also back in "The Waterbending Master" Pakku released Katara from an ice spike cage without any noticeable movement.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 3, 2010)

Bumi does have to move to bend though, the difference is that he can use his face, which was why he was making those funny faces.

I suppose you can think back to the line they used in the Matrix, that' it is not the spoon that bends, but yourself.


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## Piekage (Oct 4, 2010)

Hey guys. Legend of Korra became Journey of Korra, according to this thing. Sorry if it's been posted already.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 4, 2010)

I prefer Legend. Journey seems a bit incongruous in Avatar terms. I suppose it still works, though...


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## Level7N00b (Oct 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It just so happens that a lot of the fauna are native to the Fire Nation. And a lot of them happen to make good war cavalry.

The Earth Kingdom is fucking huge!!! The other Nations are puny in comparison. Ba Sing Se is called a city, but in reality, it is actually more of a small country, because it even dwarfs what would me called a metropolis. 

The Southern Water Tribe, as you saw, was tiny, no threat at all. The Northern Water Tribe however, has a huge city, as well as elemental and area advantage, which is why the Fire Nation never took them down.

Also, the Avatar was being reincarnated into the Air Nomads, making them the hugest threat. Fire Lord Sozin had no prejudice toward them, but he considered them a danger, so the y had to disappear.

And yes, Waterbending is totally dependent on the bender's emotional state, and their arms.


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## Superstarseven (Oct 4, 2010)

OK then, here it is.

*Avatar Spirits* 

*Spoiler*: __ 



CDQ DOWNLOAD




Kinda has an Indie doc feel to it. 32 minutes total, pretty cool look into the making of the show and it's impact.

One interesting scene towards the end have Mike and Bryan visiting their former offices which were vacant at the time of filming but which I imagine are now again staffed with the people working on Korra.


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## Burke (Oct 4, 2010)

Avatar: The Learning of Korra

I predict this next 

Watching the video, that fat guy who does southern mantis, ha, never expected that


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## Shade (Oct 5, 2010)

Wow, I just read the Zuk's Story prequel manga to the movie and not only is it much better than the actual movie, but good enough to be considered canon. It fills in the events of Zuko's life between when he is scarred by Ozai to the beginning of the movie/series. It's surprisingly well-written and has a much better grasp of the characters and environment than the movie could ever hope to have. I can tell it's a success because it actually felt like a chapter from the series. I'd advise even the movie-haters to check it out.


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## Superstarseven (Oct 5, 2010)

Shade said:


> Wow, I just read the Zuk's Story prequel manga to the movie and not only is it much better than the actual movie, but good enough to be considered canon. It fills in the events of Zuko's life between when he is scarred by Ozai to the beginning of the movie/series. It's surprisingly well-written and has a much better grasp of the characters and environment than the movie could ever hope to have. I can tell it's a success because it actually felt like a chapter from the series. I'd advise even the movie-haters to check it out.



That's because the writers have a great reverence for the series and have close ties to the people who worked on it. If they were outsiders, it probably wouldn't have been as good as you found it to be.


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## Muk (Oct 5, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> OK then, here it is.
> 
> *Avatar Spirits*
> 
> ...



do you have a ddl link for avatar spirits? its annoying me to hell to stream it off meagavid


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## Shade (Oct 5, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> That's because the writers have a great reverence for the series and have close ties to the people who worked on it. If they were outsiders, it probably wouldn't have been as good as you found it to be.



Yeah, it's obvious (aside from the cover) that the writers really cared for the series and understood it as opposed to Shyamalan. I have a feeling that if they wrote the movie, it would turn out much better as well.


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## Koi (Oct 5, 2010)

Oh man, so I got my artbook today, and the foreword is by MNS.  It's kind of embarassing.  The book is completely gorgeous otherwise.


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## Nodonn (Oct 6, 2010)

Muk said:


> do you have a ddl link for avatar spirits? its annoying me to hell to stream it off meagavid



Just change the ''video'' part of the url to ''upload''.


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## DarkLordOfKichiku (Oct 6, 2010)

Just wanted to ask.. Are there any subtitled avatar epsiodes around? Being deaf, I consider the lack of subtitles in Avatar extemly irritating to say the least - and as the case seems to be, a subtitled version isn't sold in any store that I've come across, neither in english nor my native language, so...?


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## Terra Branford (Oct 6, 2010)

Anything new on Korra? 

You know, ever since I heard about this new Avatar series, I've been hearing the name "Korra" every where. In Astro Boy, in a few world ending movies and a few new reporters. :0

Although it was spelled "Cora"....


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 6, 2010)

DarkLordOfKichiku said:


> Just wanted to ask.. Are there any subtitled avatar epsiodes around? Being deaf, I consider the lack of subtitles in Avatar extemly irritating to say the least - and as the case seems to be, a subtitled version isn't sold in any store that I've come across, neither in english nor my native language, so...?


Closed Captions on TV are the best you have now, if there aren't any subtitled Avatar episodes.


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## DarkLordOfKichiku (Oct 6, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Closed Captions on TV are the best you have now, if there aren't any subtitled Avatar episodes.




I see...   . Things looks bad for me then. Ah well, thanks anyway  .


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## Burke (Oct 6, 2010)

DarkLordOfKichiku said:


> I see...   . Things looks bad for me then. Ah well, thanks anyway  .



Are there any twisted people out there who subtitles the foreign dubs?
That could work lol


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 6, 2010)

I just finished watching _Bitter Work,_ and I liked how there were again parallels between Aang and Zuko, with each of them attempting to learn new bending techniques. I was expecting Aang to have more trouble learning earth-bending, being that it is very different from air- and water-bending; it would be unfair if he were to master another element so easily, so it is more dramatic to the plot if he has difficulty in learning how to earth-bend, especially considering that earth is the complete opposite of air in the same way that water and fire are opposites of each other. I really hope that Zuko can master advanced fire-bending techniques, for he has had such difficulty with them before; he really needs to become more powerful if he is to remain a viable fighter as the series progresses, in my opinion.

I noticed that this episode also contained suggestive material, as have previous episodes: first, the satchel that Toph held containing nuts very much resembled a male scrotum, at least in my view. Next, the manner in which she cracked the nuts with Aang's staff was not explicitly sexual, but it definitely was was suggestive of a man being struck in the testicles. Third, Aang said that his staff was a "delicate instrument," to which Toph responded, "your staff is not the only delicate instrument around here." Did anyone else believe that that scene could be interpreted in a manner different from its obvious manner? This series certainly has had a great amount of risque content for being intended for a young audience.

I have noticed that Iroh is voiced by  who has provided voices for several other characters in western animated series, notably Aku in _Samurai Jack._ He was a native of Japan, but moved to the United States after World War II. I shall presume that Japanese is his native language, judging from his accent, but he speaks English fluently, so I am wondering if he provided the voice for Iroh in the Japanese version of the series, which would actually be very awesome, in my mind. Does anyone here have any information on that subject? I searched myself, but found very little actual information.

On the subject of Iroh, how did he survive Azula's attack? He was blasted through the chest with a bolt of lightning, and Zuko refused Katara's assistance, so I suppose that he must have been extremely lucky. It was very pleasing, however, to hear Iroh say that "[Azula] is crazy and must be taken down;" finally, an in-universe character has said what I am certain many members of the audience were thinking (at least I was thinking that)!


----------



## Quaero (Oct 6, 2010)

DarkLordOfKichiku said:


> I see...   . Things looks bad for me then. Ah well, thanks anyway  .




Download

Download

Download

You'll have to watch on your PC, and probably will have to tweak them a bit to get the right timing. 

If you need help on how to set it up, just ask.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 6, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _Bitter Work,_ and I liked how there were again parallels between Aang and Zuko, with each of them attempting to learn new bending techniques. I was expecting Aang to have more trouble learning earth-bending, being that it is very different from air- and water-bending; it would be unfair if he were to master another element so easily, so it is more dramatic to the plot if he has difficulty in learning how to earth-bend, especially considering that earth is the complete opposite of air in the same way that water and fire are opposites of each other. I really hope that Zuko can master advanced fire-bending techniques, for he has had such difficulty with them before; he really needs to become more powerful if he is to remain a viable fighter as the series progresses, in my opinion.
> 
> I noticed that this episode also contained suggestive material, as have previous episodes: first, the satchel that Toph held containing nuts very much resembled a male scrotum, at least in my view. Next, the manner in which she cracked the nuts with Aang's staff was not explicitly sexual, but it definitely was was suggestive of a man being struck in the testicles. Third, Aang said that his staff was a "delicate instrument," to which Toph responded, "your staff is not the only delicate instrument around here." Did anyone else believe that that scene could be interpreted in a manner different from its obvious manner? This series certainly has had a great amount of risque content for being intended for a young audience.
> 
> ...


Well, he did have trouble learning Earthbending, and I still think that outside of the Avatar state, Toph is still stronger in Earthbending than Aang.

I never even thought of that scene as euphemistically emasculating, interesting.

I think Mako died before they started the dub for AtlA in Japan, I'm not sure.

As for Iroh surviving Azula's bolt, he can probably redirect lightning in much more other ways, I believe that Iroh showed Zuko the basic root technique for redirection, while Iroh has yet to show Zuko how to expand upon it. I like how AtlA works in many aspects of asian martial arts culture so thoroughly and respectfully without being trite or gratuitously violent; and showing it as an art as it is called, than just a different way to punch someone. (eff bloodbending though). Lightning Redirection is basically use of Chi Kung, and I think it's also a great way to show that a bender can utilize the aspects of all bending styles. LR is truly diverse when you break it down, it utilizes the Jings every bending style needs to work. LR is not just taking aspects of Waterbending and applying it to Firebending, but uses Earthbending knowledge and Airbending knowledge; it's a diverse harmony of all the bending cultures.


----------



## Wan (Oct 7, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have noticed that Iroh is voiced by  who has provided voices for several other characters in western animated series, notably Aku in _Samurai Jack._ He was a native of Japan, but moved to the United States after World War II. I shall presume that Japanese is his native language, judging from his accent, but he speaks English fluently, so I am wondering if he provided the voice for Iroh in the Japanese version of the series, which would actually be very awesome, in my mind. Does anyone here have any information on that subject? I searched myself, but found very little actual information.



No; to my knowledge, Mako passed away before Avatar was dubbed into Japanese.



> On the subject of Iroh, how did he survive Azula's attack? He was blasted through the chest with a bolt of lightning, and Zuko refused Katara's assistance, so I suppose that he must have been extremely lucky. It was very pleasing, however, to hear Iroh say that "[Azula] is crazy and must be taken down;" finally, an in-universe character has said what I am certain many members of the audience were thinking (at least I was thinking that)!



Azula doesn't use lightning all the time.  Most of the time she just uses special blue fire, which is not nearly as deadly as lightning.  As Iroh demonstrated, you need broad, sweeping movements to separate the energies and create lightning.  For example, this is lightning (end of first link and beginning of second link):




In fact, this one moment from "The Chase" is the _only_ time Azula has actually used lightning since "The Avatar State".


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## Shade (Oct 7, 2010)




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## Dragonus Nesha (Oct 7, 2010)

Yeah, images from the latest chapter being posted outside of Konoha Telegrams is a no-no.


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## Koi (Oct 7, 2010)

You gotta admit, for the manga being as crappy as it is, that is a pretty awesome move on Kishi's part.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 7, 2010)

Actually, Shade, colossal turtles/tortoises that have entire landmasses upon their backs is not a new idea at all; it originates in ancient Asian mythology and folklore. Therefore, it would be completely wrong to accuse _Naruto_ of copying the idea from _Avatar: the Last Airbender._



Mordin Solus said:


> No; to my knowledge, Mako passed away before Avatar was dubbed into Japanese.



That is very unfortunate, as he would have been perfect for that role, and it is not very often that one voice actor provides the voice for their character in both a series' native language and in its foreign language dubs.



Mordin Solus said:


> Azula doesn't use lightning all the time.  Most of the time she just uses special blue fire, which is not nearly as deadly as lightning.  As Iroh demonstrated, you need broad, sweeping movements to separate the energies and create lightning.  For example, this is lightning (end of first link and beginning of second link):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see; it is often very difficult to distinguish between lighting and blue fire, because they have very similar appearances, so I hope that it is understandable that I confused the two. However, that still does not explain how Iroh survived the attack. Was he simply very resilient?

Will there eventually be a battle where Iroh fights to the fullest of his abilities? I hope so, because I am certain that he is very powerful, but please do not reveal any details of such an occurrence, for I wish to be surprised and impressed.


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## CrazyMoronX (Oct 7, 2010)

It's not relegated to asia.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 7, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _Bitter Work,_ and I liked how there were again parallels between Aang and Zuko, with each of them attempting to learn new bending techniques. I was expecting Aang to have more trouble learning earth-bending, being that it is very different from air- and water-bending; it would be unfair if he were to master another element so easily, so it is more dramatic to the plot if he has difficulty in learning how to earth-bend, especially considering that earth is the complete opposite of air in the same way that water and fire are opposites of each other. I really hope that Zuko can master advanced fire-bending techniques, for he has had such difficulty with them before; he really needs to become more powerful if he is to remain a viable fighter as the series progresses, in my opinion.
> 
> I noticed that this episode also contained suggestive material, as have previous episodes: first, the satchel that Toph held containing nuts very much resembled a male scrotum, at least in my view. Next, the manner in which she cracked the nuts with Aang's staff was not explicitly sexual, but it definitely was was suggestive of a man being struck in the testicles. Third, Aang said that his staff was a "delicate instrument," to which Toph responded, "your staff is not the only delicate instrument around here." Did anyone else believe that that scene could be interpreted in a manner different from its obvious manner? This series certainly has had a great amount of risque content for being intended for a young audience.
> 
> ...






Iroh wasn't shot with lightning, he was hit with fire, and it didn't blast straight through him. The only explanation is that Iroh's pimp barrier is so durable, he can't be killed by such weak attacks. 

Also, Azula cannot fire lightning that quickly, never has.


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## DarkLordOfKichiku (Oct 7, 2010)

Quaero said:


> Download
> 
> Download
> 
> ...



Watching on my PC is no big thing  .

However, having no idea how to set it up (or what to use to set it up, if anything special is required for that), I most certainly have to ask for your help...


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## Superstarseven (Oct 7, 2010)

DarkLordOfKichiku said:


> Watching on my PC is no big thing  .
> 
> However, having no idea how to set it up (or what to use to set it up, if anything special is required for that), I most certainly have to ask for your help...


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 8, 2010)

In _Bitter Work,_ Aang refers to Katara and Toph as _"Shifu_ Katara" and _"Shifu_ Toph," but in Asian cultures, one usually places a person's title after their name (i.e., "Katara-_shifu"_ or "Toph-_shifu"),_ but Aang's usage of the words is not automatically incorrect. In my Karate school, the students address the teachers with their titles before their names because the teachers are not Japanese (i.e., _"Sensei_ Steve" instead of "Steve-_Senesi");_ if the teachers were Japanese, the students would address them with their titles after their names. A further example of this is that in Japanese animation, when a non-Japanese name is spoken, it is spoken in the proper order for the culture from which that name derived, not in Japanese order (for example, Malik Ishtar's name in _Yu-Gi-Oh_ was spoken in that order because he was not Japanese, but Mai Kujaku's name was spoken with the surname first because she was Japanese). Therefore, I can conclude that because "Katara" and "Toph" are not actual Asian names (or at least "Toph" is not), the placement of the Asian title _Shifu_ before the names, rather than after them, is acceptable.

I just watched _The Library,_ and it was yet another excellent episode of the series. I really liked Professor Zei and his pursuit of knowledge, which reminded me somewhat of Indiana Jones. I hope that Wan Shi Tong was merciful to him after the library sunk into the desert, and on the subject of Wan Shi Tong, I found him to be a very interesting character. I liked how he was very menacing and stern, and I am not certain between him or Koh who is creepier and more frightening. I also liked the theme of that episode, with the conflict between pursuing knowledge for the purpose of achieving a goal or simply for its own sake. I wish that the humans and Wan Shi Tong could have reached an understanding on how the knowledge of the library was to be used; it was very unfortunate that they ultimately fought each other.

So, fire-benders lose their power during a solar eclipse? I see that that parallels how water-benders lose their power during a lunar eclipse. Now, I am wondering if there are any natural phenomena that cause air- or earth-benders to lose their powers?

When Aang, Katara, Sokka, and Professor Zei were climbing up the tower, why did Toph not simply bend a column of sand and lift them directly to the window? That would have been far more sensible, in my mind.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 8, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In _Bitter Work,_
> 
> I just watched _The Library,_ and it was yet another excellent episode of the series. I really liked Professor Zei and his pursuit of knowledge, which reminded me somewhat of Indiana Jones. I hope that Wan Shi Tong was merciful to him after the library sunk into the desert, and on the subject of Wan Shi Tong, I found him to be a very interesting character. I liked how he was very menacing and stern, and I am not certain between him or Koh who is creepier and more frightening. I also liked the theme of that episode, with the conflict between pursuing knowledge for the purpose of achieving a goal or simply for its own sake. I wish that the humans and Wan Shi Tong could have reached an understanding on how the knowledge of the library was to be used; it was very unfortunate that they ultimately fought each other.
> 
> ...



Koh was easily creepier. Even when Wan Shi Tong said humans were not permitted in his library, he was civil about it. He didn't outright attack or threaten anyone until they violated his trust and his rules. Koh was very amoral and was obviously attempting to goad Aang into making facial expressions to steal his face. But, that may be my hate for centipedes talking, because a giant ass one crawling around me would make me a little creeped out. I eat Wan Shi Tong's cousins for dinner though. 

And no, Airbenders and Earthbenders cannot lose their powers. Earthbenders can be cut off from earth, as you've seen. And Airbenders can be trapped in small enclosed spaces, but there is nothing that totally shuts them off completely.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 8, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In _Bitter Work,_ Aang refers to Katara and Toph as _"Shifu_ Katara" and _"Shifu_ Toph," but in Asian cultures, one usually places a person's title after their name (i.e., "Katara-_shifu"_ or "Toph-_shifu"),_ but Aang's usage of the words is not automatically incorrect. In my Karate school, the students address the teachers with their titles before their names because the teachers are not Japanese (i.e., _"Sensei_ Steve" instead of "Steve-_Senesi");_ if the teachers were Japanese, the students would address them with their titles after their names. A further example of this is that in Japanese animation, when a non-Japanese name is spoken, it is spoken in the proper order for the culture from which that name derived, not in Japanese order (for example, Malik Ishtar's name in _Yu-Gi-Oh_ was spoken in that order because he was not Japanese, but Mai Kujaku's name was spoken with the surname first because she was Japanese). Therefore, I can conclude that because "Katara" and "Toph" are not actual Asian names (or at least "Toph" is not), the placement of the Asian title _Shifu_ before the names, rather than after them, is acceptable.
> 
> I just watched _The Library,_ and it was yet another excellent episode of the series. I really liked Professor Zei and his pursuit of knowledge, which reminded me somewhat of Indiana Jones. I hope that Wan Shi Tong was merciful to him after the library sunk into the desert, and on the subject of Wan Shi Tong, I found him to be a very interesting character. I liked how he was very menacing and stern, and I am not certain between him or Koh who is creepier and more frightening. I also liked the theme of that episode, with the conflict between pursuing knowledge for the purpose of achieving a goal or simply for its own sake. I wish that the humans and Wan Shi Tong could have reached an understanding on how the knowledge of the library was to be used; it was very unfortunate that they ultimately fought each other.
> 
> ...


I think you're just splitting hairs now


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 8, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When Aang, Katara, Sokka, and Professor Zei were climbing up the tower, why did Toph not simply bend a column of sand and lift them directly to the window? That would have been far more sensible, in my mind.



Because she is a poor sandbender. She says so herself in the episode.


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## The Potential (Oct 8, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On the subject of Iroh, how did he survive Azula's attack? He was blasted through the chest with a bolt of lightning, and Zuko refused Katara's assistance, so I suppose that he must have been extremely lucky. It was very pleasing, however, to hear Iroh say that "[Azula] is crazy and must be taken down;" finally, an in-universe character has said what I am certain many members of the audience were thinking (at least I was thinking that)!



It was Azula's Signature Blue Firebending that hit Iroh, not her Lightning Bending. As for why he survived. It's better to think of it like a bullet doesn't always kill, you have to hit someone in the right area for surtain death. Same goes for the Bending in ATLA.

It also probaly helps that he is also a FireBender.


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## Burke (Oct 8, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Koh was easily creepier. Even when Wan Shi Tong said humans were not permitted in his library, he was civil about it. He didn't outright attack or threaten anyone until they violated his trust and his rules. Koh was very amoral and was obviously attempting to goad Aang into making facial expressions to steal his face. But, that may be my hate for centipedes talking, because a giant ass one crawling around me would make me a little creeped out. I eat Wan Shi Tong's cousins for dinner though.
> 
> And no, Airbenders and Earthbenders cannot lose their powers. Earthbenders can be cut off from earth, as you've seen. And Airbenders can be trapped in small enclosed spaces, but there is nothing that totally shuts them off completely.



yeah so basicaly there is no "eclipse" for earth or airbenders


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Oct 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In _Bitter Work,_ Aang refers to Katara and Toph as _"Shifu_ Katara" and _"Shifu_ Toph," but in Asian cultures, one usually places a person's title after their name (i.e., "Katara-_shifu"_ or "Toph-_shifu"),_ but Aang's usage of the words is not automatically incorrect. In my Karate school, the students address the teachers with their titles before their names because the teachers are not Japanese (i.e., _"Sensei_ Steve" instead of "Steve-_Senesi");_ if the teachers were Japanese, the students would address them with their titles after their names. A further example of this is that in Japanese animation, when a non-Japanese name is spoken, it is spoken in the proper order for the culture from which that name derived, not in Japanese order (for example, Malik Ishtar's name in _Yu-Gi-Oh_ was spoken in that order because he was not Japanese, but Mai Kujaku's name was spoken with the surname first because she was Japanese). Therefore, I can conclude that because "Katara" and "Toph" are not actual Asian names (or at least "Toph" is not), the placement of the Asian title _Shifu_ before the names, rather than after them, is acceptable.



The only reason they say it as Shifu Katara/Shifu Toph is because the way titles/names are spoken in English compared to Chinese/Japanese language.

In English, its Title first then Surname like Mr 'So and So'. In chinese or japanese, we say it as Surname first then Title. 

For Eg, Mr in Chinese is 


If in English, you call someone 'Mr Lee'. In chinese, I would say 李先生 (If u translate to English literally, 'Lee Mr') Same goes for any title, Surname first then Title. Its like how Chinese and Japanese surnames go first then our actual names while English names then to call it First Names and then last Names (Surnames).

I live in an Asian country and if I am speaking to lets say, my teacher in english, I'm still going to call him 'Mr So and So' but if I speak to him in Chinese, its going to be 'So and so' 老师 (Teacher/Sensei). This is just a language difference, nothing more. If your name was John Smith and you go to China and be a teacher, the students will call you 'Smith (Whatever it is translated in Chinese) 老师'. There is no bias in names or whatnot.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 9, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> And no, Airbenders and Earthbenders cannot lose their powers. Earthbenders can be cut off from earth, as you've seen. And Airbenders can be trapped in small enclosed spaces, but there is nothing that totally shuts them off completely.





N??ps said:


> yeah so basicaly there is no "eclipse" for earth or airbenders



Is that not unfair? Why do water- and fire-benders have such a great weakness when air- and earth-benders do not?



Jove said:


> Because she is a poor sandbender. She says so herself in the episode.



Yes, that does make sense, but is sand not simply another form of earth (i.e., solid rocks ground into a fine powder)?



ReikaiDemon said:


> I think you're just splitting hairs now



How am I doing that?


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## Piekage (Oct 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is that not unfair? Why do water- and fire-benders have such a great weakness when air- and earth-benders do not?



It wouldn't make any sense to create such a weakness for either element. Solar and Luner Eclipses are naturally occuring phenomena, and since Waterbending and Firebending are powered or derived from the Moon and Sun respectively, it makes sense that being cut off from their sources would take away such abilities. Air and Earth are all around us. I can't think of any naturally occuring phenomena that would fiesibly cut off one's access to Air or Earth, and manufactering one for the sake of giving every element a weakness seems like poor writing, especially when there are better ways of creating geniune tension and good story. Aang's got plenty enough conflict in the series as it is, so cutting him off his first or third element doesn't seem like it would serve any real purpose from a narrative point of view.

Besides, Eclipses are pretty rare stuff, so it's not as if that weakness is so noticable that it creates an unfair rift in power between the elements. And considering Waterbending and Firebending have the most quirks compared to Earth and Air, what with Healing and Lightning and a few others, Water and Fire being effected by Lunar and Solar eclipses isn't that big a deal, IMO anyway. Not to mention that the Sun and Moon also power up both Fire and Waterbenders. Air and Earth have no such advantage.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is that not unfair? Why do water- and fire-benders have such a great weakness when air- and earth-benders do not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No. Hardly anyone knows where the Moon Spirit and Ocean Spirits are, therefore, Waterbending being cut off is *highly *unlikely. And the eclipse does not last forever, not enough time to make a huge advantage if it's a war. 

And yes, Sandbending is an Earthbending sub-technique, however, Toph isn't familiar with it, which creates her inadequacy in bending it.

It may seem unbalanced, but when you look at it all, the elements are more or less equal.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that does make sense, but is sand not simply another form of earth (i.e., solid rocks ground into a fine powder)?



Based on the way Toph "sees" and bends, sand apparently poses a problem due to it's particle nature. Of course, so is a lot of stuff an Earthbender bends, so it must be about the level of refinement.


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## Burke (Oct 9, 2010)

But its apparent that toph is able to work much better with sand later on.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 9, 2010)

N??ps said:


> But its apparent that toph is able to work much better with sand later on.



Yes, but I'm addressing someone unaware of that.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is that not unfair? Why do water- and fire-benders have such a great weakness when air- and earth-benders do not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you'd enjoy it better if you didn't focus on such extraneous details, just saying.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 9, 2010)

I think it's pretty clear that Earthbenders are at the greatest disadvantage, because they can be completely divorced from their element. 

Unless you follow M. Night's ridiculous mythology, Firebenders can only be separated from their own element if you cool them, and elite Firebenders can simply use their internal heat to counter that.

Airbenders will always be around air, but this is balanced by their elemental philosophy being defensive.

Waterbenders seem to me to be at the greatest advantage, because their element can be found everywhere akin to air and their element utilizes both offensive and defensive strategies. And it can heal. And it is the most flexible element, by property shifting. Waterbending's pretty geared up when you think about it.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 9, 2010)

They all have some pretty big weaknesses too!

Airbending seriously lacks fatal moves. Of course, there are things that can potentially be done to harm someone, like sucking the air from their body, but that's countered by Airbender philosophy. Not to mention them being in enclosed spaces limits their "avoid and evade" tactics.

Earthbending can be totally cut off if you were say, in a metal fortress, no earth there and your done for. Or, the amount of earth in the area can also severely limit an Earthbeneder's power. 

Firebending lacks defensive moves, seeing as it's a confrontational element. And as we know, the sun is the very source of Firebending, no sun, goodbye flames. Being in places such as the North Pole or in heavy rain may also be a weakness.

Waterbending can be disrupted by the emotional state of it's user. And only particularly powerful benders can drag water from sources such as plants and use that as their weapon. Also, the lunar eclipse shuts Waterbending down as well.


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## Shadow Hawk (Oct 9, 2010)

Avatar is awesome! It tops the whole HST!


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## Piekage (Oct 10, 2010)

Not my thing, but if you have time to kill, make your own (female) Avatar character.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 10, 2010)

Only female? Aw damn...Oh well, I'll just make the boobs zero, and it'll look like me


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 10, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Airbending seriously lacks fatal moves. Of course, there are things that can potentially be done to harm someone, like sucking the air from their body



I refuse to believe this is a real possibility. This is exactly why bloodbending was a bad idea to canonize.


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## Platinum (Oct 10, 2010)

Why would the Airbender's want to develop fatal airbending moves in the first place?

They didn't believe in violence so they wouldn't want to develop moves that could kill someone. It's more of a defensive bending style than an offensive one.

And I doubt they would be able to pull the air out of people even if they wanted too. Waterbenders need power from the moon to pull off bloodbending. Airbenders don't have an extra source to draw power from.


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## Burke (Oct 10, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Only female? Aw damn...Oh well, I'll just make the boobs zero, and it'll look like me



Dont beat yourself up


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## Level7N00b (Oct 10, 2010)

Jove said:


> I refuse to believe this is a real possibility. This is exactly why bloodbending was a bad idea to canonize.



Its okay, they could still push you off a cliff. Remember Aang and Jet fighting in the trees? If there weren't so many branches, Jet's hook swords wouldn't have saved him and he'd have crashed into the ground. Yummy yummy road pizza.

But, I didn't like the Bloodbending idea, it made the episode really sinister. If the show wasn't TV-Y7, it would have been okay though.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 10, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Its okay, they could still push you off a cliff. Remember Aang and Jet fighting in the trees? If there weren't so many branches, Jet's hook swords wouldn't have saved him and he'd have crashed into the ground. Yummy yummy road pizza.
> 
> But, I didn't like the Bloodbending idea, it made the episode really sinister. If the show wasn't TV-Y7, it would have been okay though.



He would have landed on a fluffy pile of leaves, encasing a soft fur center.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 10, 2010)

Jove said:


> He would have landed on a fluffy pile of leaves, encasing a soft fur center.



Eh, whateves. He was due to die at the end of next season anyjow.


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## Buskuv (Oct 10, 2010)

Platinum said:


> Why would the Airbender's want to develop fatal airbending moves in the first place?
> 
> They didn't believe in violence so they wouldn't want to develop moves that could kill someone. It's more of a defensive bending style than an offensive one.
> 
> And I doubt they would be able to pull the air out of people even if they wanted too. Waterbenders need power from the moon to pull off bloodbending. Airbenders don't have an extra source to draw power from.



I don't know if there was an inherent focus, but the pile of Fire Nation soldier skeletons around Giatso's body shows they can indeed kill with their bending--in his case, quite effectively, considering the number of soldiers.

But they really just died of old age!


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Oct 10, 2010)

Aang mentioned them being able to create Wind Swords so that seems like an offensive use of Airbending to me. If they're gonna take the time to create a blade out of air, its going to be used to cut/slash people.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 10, 2010)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> Aang mentioned them being able to create Wind Swords so that seems like an offensive use of Airbending to me. If they're gonna take the time to create a blade out of air, its going to be used to cut/slash people.



That would have been such an epic weapon. pek


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 10, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I don't know if there was an inherent focus, but the pile of Fire Nation soldier skeletons around Giatso's body shows they can indeed kill with their bending--in his case, quite effectively, considering the number of soldiers.
> 
> But they really just died of old age!



Exactly. Impressed by the strength and determination of the Air Nomads, they defected and lived the rest of their lives in the Southern Air Temple. The death ritual was to die in prayer to Gyatso's remains.


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## Burke (Oct 10, 2010)

Jove said:


> Exactly. Impressed by the strength and determination of the Air Nomads, they defected and lived the rest of their lives in the Southern Air Temple. The death ritual was to die in prayer to Gyatso's remains.



Canon


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## Sillay (Oct 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I noticed that this episode also contained suggestive material, as have previous episodes: first, the satchel that Toph held containing nuts very much resembled a male scrotum, at least in my view. Next, the manner in which she cracked the nuts with Aang's staff was not explicitly sexual, but it definitely was was suggestive of a man being struck in the testicles. Third, Aang said that his staff was a "delicate instrument," to which Toph responded, "your staff is not the only delicate instrument around here." Did anyone else believe that that scene could be interpreted in a manner different from its obvious manner? This series certainly has had a great amount of risque content for being intended for a young audience.



As you said, the scene could be interpreted in more than one way. I myself didn't interpret the scene the same way you did, but often, writers will insert innuendos so the show will be as interesting and comical as it is for an eight year old, for a forty five year old.


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## Ice Cream (Oct 10, 2010)

Jove said:


> I refuse to believe this is a real possibility. This is exactly why bloodbending was a bad idea to canonize.



That episode always seemed random to me although the
blood bending was a nice concept. I guess it could even be 
possible for water benders to quickly kill individuals by stopping
blood flow to the heart/rushing blood to the head.

Just wondering but why was Azula's fire blue?

Also, during the episode when the dragons showed Zuko/Aang
a spectrum of flames, is it possible for fire benders
to possess other colors other than blue/red?


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 10, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Not my thing, but if you have time to kill, make your own (female) Avatar character.



Thank _you_, Alisa Christopher. You've once again found a way to waste so much of my time....


Azula's fire bending is blue in part due to her personality, mainly because it was something to bolster her character. A trademark, so to say.

Conceivably, firebenders should be able to bend several different colors.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 10, 2010)

Ice Cream said:


> That episode always seemed random to me although the
> blood bending was a nice concept. I guess it could even be
> possible for water benders to quickly kill individuals by stopping
> blood flow to the heart/rushing blood to the head.
> ...



Her fire burns blue because it's hotter than normal fire. I suppose it's meant to signify Azula's prodigious level of Firebending.

Also, the dragons are the original Firebenders, it's not at all far fetched to say they can do shit we never even saw.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _The Desert,_ and I see that Iroh is a member of a secret organization; that is very fascinating, and I hope that more of it is revealed as the series continues.
> 
> However, I was disappointed that Zuko did not notice that the man in the tavern was attempting to create a diversion so that he (Zuko) and Iroh could escape. Zuko rashly presumed that the man was turning against them, and this is not the first time that he has failed to notice something that I thought was very obvious.
> 
> ...



Appa shares a spiritual bond with Aang, it is a *very *big deal if someone abuses him to the other. Appa is the last of his kind, just like Aang, and an animal life partner. The Sandbenders abducting Appa is serious fucking business to Aang. The way he sees it, with the Fire Nation having killed his people, he'll be damned if someone else takes away another family member. 

Also, without Appa, the chances of the getting out of the desert were slim, had plot not been on their sides. So that is a reason for them all to overreact, not just Aang. Try to remember, in the end, Aang is only a boy, and you can't expect him to be calm when to him, the worst thing in the world just happened.

There isn't one. Airbenders are raised from birth to respect life. Living how they do, the chances are low they would grow up as bullies to even start disrespecting life in the first place, and then turn to be flat out killers as a result.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _The Desert,_ and I see that Iroh is a member of a secret organization; that is very fascinating, and I hope that more of it is revealed as the series continues.
> 
> However, I was disappointed that Zuko did not notice that the man in the tavern was attempting to create a diversion so that he (Zuko) and Iroh could escape. Zuko rashly presumed that the man was turning against them, and this is not the first time that he has failed to notice something that I thought was very obvious.
> 
> ...



Zuko was never a man of subtlety.

Appa isn't just a "trustworthy companion", he is many things, the last part of his completely eradicated culture, the last of his kind, even a kind of a brother. For an airbender, the sky bison that has chosen them is an inseparable part of their very being. Appa has been with Aang from his earliest life. Aside from Bumi, Appa is the only living thing that he has from a century ago.

Nope, not possible. It's nearly mandatory to be pacifistic to make airbending work in a sense; otherwise, one would be a poor airbender. And airbending itself is very ineffective in coercing and hurting people relative to the other bending disciplines. I suppose you can blow some off a cliff, or buffet them with sustained gusts for a while, but I highly doubt those applications would be effective towards a mass domination scheme.

And if anyone disagrees to airbening philosophy, then they can just leave and not be an airbender then.


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## Wan (Oct 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I asked this already, but because I did not receive a response, I shall ask it again: do Zuko and Azula have Oedipus Complexes? Each of them has a very strong attraction to their opposite-sex parent and a very strong hostility toward their same-sex parent, so I am wondering what the other users of this forum believe. What can anyone else here say on that subject?



Dude.  It's a kid's TV show.  You're reading waaaaaay too much into things.

I'd say it's not just a matter of Zuko and Azula particularly liking one parent, but of Ozai and Ursa particularly loving one of their children.  In "Zuko Alone", it was made clear what they thought of their children- Ursa doted on Zuko, while muttering "What is wrong with that child?" about Azula under her breath.  Ozai was proud of Azula's firebending prowess, while Zuko's attempt at a display made him frown even before Zuko began.  Such attention by one parent and disdain by the other will naturally cause a child to prefer the loving parent, regardless of gender.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 10, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Dude.  It's a kid's TV show.  You're reading waaaaaay too much into things.
> 
> I'd say it's not just a matter of Zuko and Azula particularly liking one parent, but of Ozai and Ursa particularly loving one of their children.  In "Zuko Alone", it was made clear what they thought of their children- Ursa doted on Zuko, while muttering "What is wrong with that child?" about Azula under her breath.  Ozai was proud of Azula's firebending prowess, while Zuko's attempt at a display made him frown even before Zuko began.  Such attention by one parent and disdain by the other will naturally cause a child to prefer the loving parent, regardless of gender.


Plus Ozai didn't get much attention being the youngest childm so he's sorta letting it happen inversely.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 10, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Dude.  It's a kid's TV show.  You're reading waaaaaay too much into things.



I read deeply into nearly every series that I follow, so my doing so for _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is nothing unusual for me.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 10, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Plus Ozai didn't get much attention being the youngest childm so he's sorta letting it happen inversely.



Yeah, it was a sort of give what you got situation.


----------



## Kirito (Oct 11, 2010)

Dunno about this if anyone knows about this info. Sorry if it's been mentioned already.



> 'Tenzin is bald(has shaved head), just like Aang.'


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 11, 2010)

It's not worthwhile information anyway, but I'm only partially convinced we can trust this source.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 11, 2010)

I forgot to comment on the fact that Sokka ingested juice from the cactus in _The Desert;_ I shall presume that that was the "substance intoxication" to which another user referred several pages ago. I found Sokka's behavior while intoxicated to be very humorous, but I was disappointed that neither Toph nor Katara drank any of the cactus juice, either. Was anyone else disappointed by that? What sort of behavior would they have demonstrated if they had become intoxicated, as well?


----------



## Koi (Oct 11, 2010)

I like the fact that Aang's son is named Tenzin.  Tenzin Gyatso is/was the Dalai Lama's name, so it works beautifully.

Also, I'm gonna flip through my artbook maybe tonight and write down a few interesting little facts that I got out of it, to share with you all.


----------



## Piekage (Oct 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I forgot to comment on the fact that Sokka ingested juice from the cactus in _The Desert;_ I shall presume that that was the "substance intoxication" to which another user referred several pages ago. I found Sokka's behavior while intoxicated to be very humorous, but I was disappointed that neither Toph nor Katara drank any of the cactus juice, either. Was anyone else disappointed by that? What sort of behavior would they have demonstrated if they had become intoxicated, as well?



I am. One thing I always wondered though, why didn't Katara take some of that Cactus water for bending purposes? Sure, she couldn't have drunk any of it, but I'm sure it would be handy in a fight all the same(like against those Gaint Wasps). Imagine Katara using it against a person. Imagine her using it against one of the Dangerous Ladies?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 11, 2010)

Track Team put a signed page of sheet music from the show up for charity auction!!!!!


----------



## Burke (Oct 11, 2010)

Daw i was hoping for tenzin to have hair


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 11, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Daw i was hoping for tenzin to have hair



With that being said, is Aang naturally bald, or does he shave his head? If he shaves his head, why has he never been shown doing it, and how does he shave it with no apparent razor?


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 11, 2010)

Aang as well as presumably all the Air Nomads shave their hair, save the females. Also, it is not particularly important to show, but he does shave his hair when it begins to grow out. You will see it happen soon enough.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 11, 2010)

Piekage said:


> I am. One thing I always wondered though, why didn't Katara take some of that Cactus water for bending purposes? Sure, she couldn't have drunk any of it, but I'm sure it would be handy in a fight all the same(like against those Gaint Wasps). Imagine Katara using it against a person. Imagine her using it against one of the Dangerous Ladies?



Are you saying that Katara would fight her enemies by causing them to become intoxicated?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I forgot to comment on the fact that Sokka ingested juice from the cactus in _The Desert;_ I shall presume that that was the "substance intoxication" to which another user referred several pages ago. I found Sokka's behavior while intoxicated to be very humorous, but I was disappointed that neither Toph nor Katara drank any of the cactus juice, either. Was anyone else disappointed by that? What sort of behavior would they have demonstrated if they had become intoxicated, as well?



I've thought about that once, Mostly, cactus juice is safe to drink in real life, however, in a desert situation, it's advised against, because it'll dehydrate you. I dunno if Sokka was acting that way because he was dehydrated, or that the cacti there are psychotropic. 



Piekage said:


> I am. One thing I always wondered though, why didn't Katara take some of that Cactus water for bending purposes? Sure, she couldn't have drunk any of it, but I'm sure it would be handy in a fight all the same(like against those Gaint Wasps). Imagine Katara using it against a person. Imagine her using it against one of the Dangerous Ladies?


Possibly, the gel like consistency of cactus juice interferes with it, or that it's not pure enough to control well.


DemonDragonJ said:


> With that being said, is Aang naturally bald, or does he shave his head? If he shaves his head, why has he never been shown doing it, and how does he shave it with no apparent razor?


I'd like to say keep watching, but I know how much that annoys you, and to say keep watching is basically saying yes anyways.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 11, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Aang as well as presumably all the Air Nomads shave their hair, save the females. Also, it is not particularly important to show, but he does shave his hair when it begins to grow out. You will see it happen soon enough.



Why do the Air Nomads shave their heads? Is such a practice somehow important to their philosophy?


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why do the Air Nomads shave their heads? Is such a practice somehow important to their philosophy?


Basically take everything you know about Buddhism, and that's your answer


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## Rannic (Oct 12, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Daw i was hoping for tenzin to have hair



Me too, but it's all good.


----------



## Piekage (Oct 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you saying that Katara would fight her enemies by causing them to become intoxicated?



No. At least, not purposely. I just think it would be a funny side effect of her weapon. I'm mainly interested in seeing other characters reactions to the Cactus Juice.



> Possibly, the gel like consistency of cactus juice interferes with it, or that it's not pure enough to control well.



Possibly. Still, I was curious that Katara didn't even try bending it, even when she was in need of Water to fight with at the time. I guess the creators wanted to avoid Katra using a "spiked" weapon in combat, given the reaction the juice has on a person.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 12, 2010)

Gregg Easterbrook gives a sensible nod to A:tLA in this week's Tuesday Morning Quarterback:




So there we have it: our first confirmed Brookings Institute Avatard.


----------



## Noah (Oct 12, 2010)

The comment on the picture really makes me wish Aang and Appa did write the movie.


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## Superstarseven (Oct 13, 2010)

Dee Baker tweeted that he finished recording an episode of Korra. He's equally adept at reading lines for a human character as well as Animals, which is what he's known for, I can't imagine that he's doing ADR already for an episode that was sent back to the U.S. 

I'd like for Nick to release the cast list already.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 14, 2010)

I just finished watching _The Drill,_ which was the one episode of this series that I saw on television before watching its entirety on my computer, which is what I am doing now. Much of that episode did not make sense to me, for I had no knowledge of the series at that time, but I thankfully had forgotten most of it, and it made much more sense now that I have been watching the series from the beginning.

In my mind, there was such a great amount of suggestive content in that episode, mainly relating to the titular drill itself. First, it was incredibly phallic in its appearance. Second, it was designed to penetrate the walls of a city, and in traditional mythology and folklore, cities are often regarded as being feminine because they protect and shelter their inhabitants, like a mother. Third, the manner in which the slurry exited the rear of the drill was unpleasantly reminiscent of a person experiencing a bad instance of diarrhea (anyone who has watched _Night Shift Nurses_ will understand that perfectly). Fourth, the manner in which the slurry poured out from where the drill was penetrating the wall was suggestive, but I shall not provide a detailed description of how it was; I am certain that most users here can imagine what I am implying with that statement. On that subject, I thought I saw a screenshot on a website somewhere where slurry pours out from the front of the drill, which of course would be the most suggestive scene of all, but that did not happen in this episode. Does that happen in the next episode, or did I see an edited or deleted screenshot?

On a less suggestive subject, I find the drill to be slightly too high-tech for the ancient setting that this series has, but because this series is set in a fictional world, I suppose that I shall need to accept that apparent anachronism.

Apart from the sexual innuendos in this episode, I liked how Azula was very observant and not content to dismiss the cloud that Toph bent as merely a cloud. However, I think that War Minister Qin was very unintelligent to believe that the cloud was nothing, for even if I had not know that Toph had generated the cloud, it was very obvious to me that the cloud was meant to be a distraction.

I rather dislike Ty Lee's overly enthusiastic and spaced-out personality; I experience enough of that with Starfire in the _Teen Titans_ animated series. The manner in which she reacted to the cloud was very annoying. In her first appearance, when she said "my aura has never been pinker," what did she mean? Does anyone here believe that line may have been suggestive in some manner (yes, I do find many lines in many series to be innuendos or sexually suggestive, even if one would be a very obscure innuendo at best)? Why do Ty Lee and Mai tolerate and obey Azula? In Zuko's flashback, Azula was horrible to them, yet they remain friendly to her to the present storyline; I find that to be very interesting.

I see that Jet now knows that Iroh and Zuko are fire-benders, and he now dislikes them because of that. I cannot believe that he is so discriminatory that he will hate someone he previously was fond of, simply because of their nationality. He had undeniable proof that not all people from the Fire Nation were evil, yet he ignored it because such knowledge contradicted the philosophy around which his entire life is based.

I liked how Iroh and Zuko met up with Than and Ying, how Iroh met up with Toph in an earlier episode, and how Zuko met up with Jet; there are many characters in this series, yet nonw are ever completely forgotten, and all of their lives intertwine with the others’ at least once, at some points in time. I like series that do that.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 14, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _The Drill,_ which was the one episode of this series that I saw on television before watching its entirety on my computer, which is what I am doing now. Much of that episode did not make sense to me, for I had no knowledge of the series at that time, but I thankfully had forgotten most of it, and it made much more sense now that I have been watching the series from the beginning.
> 
> In my mind, there was such a great amount of suggestive content in that episode, mainly relating to the titular drill itself. First, it was incredibly phallic in its appearance. Second, it was designed to penetrate the walls of a city, and in traditional mythology and folklore, cities are often regarded as being feminine because they protect and shelter their inhabitants, like a mother. Third, the manner in which the slurry exited the rear of the drill was unpleasantly reminiscent of a person experiencing a bad instance of diarrhea (anyone who has watched _Night Shift Nurses_ will understand that perfectly). Fourth, the manner in which the slurry poured out from where the drill was penetrating the wall was suggestive, but I shall not provide a detailed description of how it was; I am certain that most users here can imagine what I am implying with that statement. On that subject, I thought I saw a screenshot on a website somewhere where slurry pours out from the front of the drill, which of course would be the most suggestive scene of all, but that did not happen in this episode. Does that happen in the next episode, or did I see an edited or deleted screenshot?
> 
> ...


Er, wut?

...

I think you're inserting too much of your own subtext into this show.  It's just like that Scrotie McBoogerballs episode of South Park.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 14, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Er, wut?
> 
> ...
> 
> I think you're inserting too much of your own subtext into this show. It's just like that Scrotie McBoogerballs episode of South Park.



I am not "inserting my own subtext into the show," in your words; I am merely stating my observations and opinion of the series and interpreting it in my own manner. Surely, I am allowed to do that? Every person does that when they follow a fictional series, so I believe that there is nothing wrong with me doing so, as well.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 14, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _The Drill,_ which was the one episode of this series that I saw on television before watching its entirety on my computer, which is what I am doing now. Much of that episode did not make sense to me, for I had no knowledge of the series at that time, but I thankfully had forgotten most of it, and it made much more sense now that I have been watching the series from the beginning.
> 
> In my mind, there was such a great amount of suggestive content in that episode, mainly relating to the titular drill itself. First, it was incredibly phallic in its appearance. Second, it was designed to penetrate the walls of a city, and in traditional mythology and folklore, cities are often regarded as being feminine because they protect and shelter their inhabitants, like a mother. Third, the manner in which the slurry exited the rear of the drill was unpleasantly reminiscent of a person experiencing a bad instance of diarrhea (anyone who has watched _Night Shift Nurses_ will understand that perfectly). Fourth, the manner in which the slurry poured out from where the drill was penetrating the wall was suggestive, but I shall not provide a detailed description of how it was; I am certain that most users here can imagine what I am implying with that statement. On that subject, I thought I saw a screenshot on a website somewhere where slurry pours out from the front of the drill, which of course would be the most suggestive scene of all, but that did not happen in this episode. Does that happen in the next episode, or did I see an edited or deleted screenshot?
> 
> ...







Ty Lee's meaning was that she had never in her life been happier than when she was in the circus. It had nothing to do with a sexual innuendo, because she claims multiple times in the series she is able to see the auras of other people. 

Mai and Ty Lee are afraid of what Azula would do to the if they didn't obey, however their history growing up together likely makes it so they can be at ease around he, knowing she doesn't just randomly snap at people. 

Jet watched his parents and village burn t the ground, all done by the Fire Nation, and to top it off, he was only a boy when it happened. He has every right to be angry however, he does throw his anger at those who do not deserve it, such as that old man who couldn't have hurt Jet if he tried. To him, all people from the Fire Nation are guilty, regardless if they are involved in the war or not.


----------



## Burke (Oct 14, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am not "inserting my own subtext into the show," in your words; I am merely stating my observations and opinion of the series and interpreting it in my own manner. Surely, I am allowed to do that? Every person does that when they follow a fictional series, so I believe that there is nothing wrong with me doing so, as well.



This may be, but there is such a thing as _over_ analyzing.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 14, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Ty Lee's meaning was that she had never in her life been happier than when she was in the circus. It had nothing to do with a sexual innuendo, because she claims multiple times in the series she is able to see the auras of other people.



Yes, I know that perfectly well, but I did not wish to waste such an opportunity; a line such as that is very easy for someone such as myself to interpret in any number of ways, which is what I have been doing for this entire series, and every fictional series that I follow.



Level7N00b said:


> Mai and Ty Lee are afraid of what Azula would do to the if they didn't obey, however their history growing up together likely makes it so they can be at ease around he, knowing she doesn't just randomly snap at people.
> 
> Jet watched his parents and village burn t the ground, all done by the Fire Nation, and to top it off, he was only a boy when it happened. He has every right to be angry however, he does throw his anger at those who do not deserve it, such as that old man who couldn't have hurt Jet if he tried. To him, all people from the Fire Nation are guilty, regardless if they are involved in the war or not.



Yes, I understand both of those situations well enough, but I hope that Jet eventually realizes and accepts that not every citizen of the Fire Nation is evil, and that Mai and Ty Lee eventually decide that they do not need to follow Azula and obey her every command.

Also, to change subjects, if Toph can perceive her environment by sensing vibrations through the ground, could a blind air-bender perceive their environment by sensing vibrations in the air?

On that subject, even if the Air Nomads were annihilated by the Fire Nation, how could no new air-benders be born after Aang froze himself in the ice? That seems to be very illogical to me. I understand that making Aang the titular "last airbender" makes him more unique, but that also gives the audience a very limited exposure to the art of air-bending. What if another air-bender had a very different bending style than Aang's? I really would like to see more non-avatar air-benders.

Finally, does anyone here perceive the great irony of Mark Hamill playing Fire Lord Ozai, an evil and abusive father who treats his son poorly because that son wished to use his powers for a good cause? I certainly do, and I am also certain that I am using the term "irony" properly ion this case (that is to say, this is an an example of true irony, not a misuse of term).


----------



## Piekage (Oct 15, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, to change subjects, if Toph can perceive her environment by sensing vibrations through the ground, could a blind air-bender perceive their environment by sensing vibrations in the air?


It might be possible, but only because it hasn't been denied by the creators as far as I know. That's not some thing they really explore in the series. Although Aang never mentioned anything about that when he meet Toph or saw her blind bending, so it might not be possible.


DemonDragonJ said:


> On that subject, even if the Air Nomads were annihilated by the Fire Nation, how could no new air-benders be born after Aang froze himself in the ice? That seems to be very illogical to me. I understand that making Aang the titular "last airbender" makes him more unique, but that also gives the audience a very limited exposure to the art of air-bending. What if another air-bender had a very different bending style than Aang's? I really would like to see more non-avatar air-benders.


It's never fully explained, in series or otherwise, how a person aquires bending. I think one of the creators mentioned outside an interview that a person could be born with the potential, but never realize it without training or a spritual connection. So it's possible an Airbender was born after the genocide, but with no one to train him he never realized his abilities.

Of course you also have to consider an Airbender born after the war started would be made aware that every one of his kind was killed by the FN, and he or his parents would probably hide his identity.

And for a humorous look on how the Airbenders come back post series, I direct anyone interested to this. Spoilers for, well, just DemonDragonJ really.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 15, 2010)

Piekage said:


> It might be possible, but only because it hasn't been denied by the creators as far as I know. That's not some thing they really explore in the series. Although Aang never mentioned anything about that when he meet Toph or saw her blind bending, so it might not be possible.
> 
> It's never fully explained, in series or otherwise, how a person aquires bending. I think one of the creators mentioned outside an interview that a person could be born with the potential, but never realize it without training or a spritual connection. So it's possible an Airbender was born after the genocide, but with no one to train him he never realized his abilities.
> 
> ...



The first part of your post is very sensible, and it is approximately what I was imagining, as well. As for the second part of your post, I read the fanficiton to which you provided a link, and at this point, its content was not as great a spoiler as it would have been if I had read it earlier. Of course, it is not canonical, so that also helps it to not be as great of a spoiler as it could be. The only part of it that I did not understand were the first two sentences: 





> "Ty Lee's twins did not come as a surprise, not when Sokka thinks about it; it explains a lot about her, actually."


How would giving birth to twins explain much about Ty Lee?


----------



## Burke (Oct 15, 2010)

Has J read HIBY yet?


----------



## Piekage (Oct 15, 2010)

How I became Yours, or HIBY for short, is one of the worst pieces of ficton in existance. It's a webcomic about Zuko and Katara getting together post series. Everything about this comic is horrible; the "characters" behave like they're in a soap opera and are incredibly out of character, the Asian inspired world of Avatar is replaced with someting from Cinderella or Snow White, the art is obviously traced from various sources, and the author repeatedly uses real life pics with drawn segments of the comic.

Also, the story is shit. TVtropes probably has more on the subject.


----------



## Burke (Oct 15, 2010)

Yeah, i dare you to critically analyze it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 16, 2010)

Piekage said:


> How I became Yours, or HIBY for short, is one of the worst pieces of ficton in existance. It's a webcomic about Zuko and Katara getting together post series. Everything about this comic is horrible; the "characters" behave like they're in a soap opera and are incredibly out of character, the Asian inspired world of Avatar is replaced with someting from Cinderella or Snow White, the art is obviously traced from various sources, and the author repeatedly uses real life pics with drawn segments of the comic.
> 
> Also, the story is shit. TVtropes probably has more on the subject.



So, it is the _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ equivalent of _My Immortal_ or _Forbiden Fruit: the Tempation of Edward Cullen_ (yes, the author of that story misspelled some words in its title)?



N??ps said:


> Yeah, i dare you to critically analyze it.



If I can find the free time, and possibly tolerate the apparently poor writing, perhaps I shall do so. I normally have a strong aversion to poor plots (which is why I shall never watch the _American Pie_ series, the _Scary Movie_ series, _Not Another Teen Movie,_ or the countless parodies that have been made of popular movies recently), but I shall at least attempt to check out the webcomic, to see if it is worth my time and brain power.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that Jet and Zuko's fight was very impressive and that their fighting styles were very similar to each other. I also found it to be very odd that no _Dai Li_ agents were following any of the heroes despite Long Feng's promise that they would, and that the people of the city did not seem to be oppressed or ignorant. That is very unusual, in my mind.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 16, 2010)

Carved pumpkins today with an aunt and one of my little cousins. I haven't carved a pumpkin in a decade, but I still decided to try to do Korra. It's really sloppy, but Korra herself came out ok:


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 16, 2010)

Damn dude, that's the work of an artiste.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 16, 2010)

Not really. There's a reason some of them are so small. The detailed ones are really sloppy. I need to clean it up. It was kind of a last minute thing. The print I found was here: 

The guy never tested it. The smallest carving knife we had still wasn't small and thin enough, so some buildings had to go. 

Korra came out pretty well, though.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 16, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, to change subjects, if Toph can perceive her environment by sensing vibrations through the ground, could a blind air-bender perceive their environment by sensing vibrations in the air?
> 
> On that subject, even if the Air Nomads were annihilated by the Fire Nation, how could no new air-benders be born after Aang froze himself in the ice? That seems to be very illogical to me. I understand that making Aang the titular &quot;last airbender&quot; makes him more unique, but that also gives the audience a very limited exposure to the art of air-bending. What if another air-bender had a very different bending style than Aang's? I really would like to see more non-avatar air-benders.
> 
> Finally, does anyone here perceive the great irony of Mark Hamill playing Fire Lord Ozai, an evil and abusive father who treats his son poorly because that son wished to use his powers for a good cause? I certainly do, and I am also certain that I am using the term &quot;irony&quot; properly ion this case (that is to say, this is an an example of true irony, not a misuse of term).



Yes, it's called a damn good sense of hearing, anyone with working ears is able to do it.   
</br> 
If I recall, to be a master airbender, you have to invent a unique move to be granted tattoos. So essentially, all Master Airbenders have unique move over each other. However, I doubt there is a large deviance in discipline and style. The Air Nomad &quot;nation&quot; is a very small culture compared to the rest of the world; this also makes it unfortunately very easy for them to get exterminated. And despite being nomads, they sure like to stay concentrated at the temples. There is a hundred years between the start of the war and Aang's awakening, so they have ample time to kill every airbender. And any living airbender would just make one of the largest parts of Aang's character defunct. Unless if you count Appa as another Airbender, because technically, he is.</br>   
</br> 
 I didn't really find it ironic, I did find it typical though, Mark Hamill has pretty much been a villain voice actor for most of his career</br>  





Jove said:


> Carved pumpkins today with an aunt and one of my little cousins. I haven't carved a pumpkin in a decade, but I still decided to try to do Korra. It's really sloppy, but Korra herself came out ok:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



The Korra one is awesome, You should get another gourd, use more rind thinning to bring out the contrast of values.  Edit: dammit, fucking formatting is broke again


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 16, 2010)

Yeah, that was tough. I was just scraping forever. The guy basically took the Korra image and colored over it. The image so small I had to blow it up 3x, and even then the buildings are so difficult. What I really wanted to do was have it go all the way around the pumpkin, but I didn't have any long paper.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 16, 2010)

Tape more paper?


----------



## Shade (Oct 16, 2010)

There is a high-res version of that picture available. Unless this is the one you used and it was still too small. Part  2

Big enough to be my wallpaper.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 17, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I didn't really find it ironic, I did find it typical though, Mark Hamill has pretty much been a villain voice actor for most of his career.



I believe that a joke is not funny if it needs to be explained, and similarly, irony loses its effect when it needs to be explained, but I must do so here.

The irony of the situation is derived from the fact that Mark Hamill's most famous role is that of Luke Skywalker in the _Star Wars_ movies. His character's (Luke's) father is not at all a loving parent and wishes for him (Luke) to use his powers for evil. As Fire Lord Ozai, Mark Hamill is now the abusive, evil parent who wishes for his son (Zuko) to use his (Zuko's) powers for evil purposes, thus completely reversing his role (from an out-of-universe perspective).


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 17, 2010)

I know what you meant before, but it's just not sticking to me much.  Too broad of an effort to make it work.
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Ozai just doesn't want Zuko, period, he doesn't want to use Zuko or steer him towards "evil" as you say it. Ozai believed that the Avatar was already long dead, so he sent Zuko on an impossible quest to capture the Avatar to make his punishment really final. To Ozai, Zuko is a pest, ; stemming from his relationship with his father, as a second born son. Ozai has been neglected because of his second born status, and now that he has two children, he lavishes Azula merely for being second born.   It's not too much of a stretch to say that he only had two kids in the first place, so that he can dote on the younger child.


  As for Vader and Luke, that's the farthest thing from Zuko and Ozai's relationship. Vader still shows that he cares about Luke in some regard, and only wants to steer Luke to the dark side so that he can be safe at his side.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 17, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I know what you meant before, but it's just not sticking to me much.  Too broad of an effort to make it work.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, I understand, and with that being said, my desire to see Zuko prove himself to Ozai and Azula is greater than ever. I really want to see Zuko show the two of them that he is not weak or worthless, and also to see their great egos damaged. I also can understand how Azula being the younger sibling is an important part of her relationship with Zuko, even if I am more accustomed to the idea of the older sibling being the favored one.

When the protagonists arrived in Ba Sing Se, how did Joo Dee know their names? I know that their reputation is increasing, but at that point, I did not believe that it had increased to the point that they were renowned across the world, so it is rather suspicious that she knew so much about them, despite having never met them before.

I just finished watching _Appa's Lost Days,_ and I found that to be a very interesting episode; at last, what happened to Appa has been revealed! I see that he had an incredibly difficult ordeal after being abducted by the desert bandits. Even after reaching Ba Sing Se, he was captured by Long Feng; I really hope that he will be reuitned with Aang soon.

Why did Long Feng with to capture Appa, anyway? Would doing so allow him to control Aang? Is he seeking to use Aang's power for his own gain?

Seeing Suki and the Kyoshi warriors fight Azula, Ty Lee, and Mai was a welcome sight; this is the first battle in which only women fought, and although I strongly suspected that the Kyoshi warriors would be defeated, it still was an excellent battle, especially considering that there was only one bender (albeit an incredibly powerful bender) participating in it.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 17, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I understand, and with that being said, my desire to see Zuko prove himself to Ozai and Azula is greater than ever. I really want to see Zuko show the two of them that he is not weak or worthless, and also to see their great egos damaged. I also can understand how Azula being the younger sibling is an important part of her relationship with Zuko, even if I am more accustomed to the idea of the older sibling being the favored one.
> 
> When the protagonists arrived in Ba Sing Se, how did Joo Dee know their names? I know that their reputation is increasing, but at that point, I did not believe that it had increased to the point that they were renowned across the world, so it is rather suspicious that she knew so much about them, despite having never met them before.
> 
> ...



For Joo Dee, you'll start seeing some creepy Big Brother stuff in Ba Sing Se


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## Burke (Oct 17, 2010)

Actually J, Long Feng taking Appa was more of a bargaining chip where in exchange for appa, Aang and the gang would keep their noses out of Ba Sing Se's buissiness.

or atleast, thats how i thought it was playing out by the time i was on the episode you are on.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 17, 2010)

I just finished watching _Lake Laogai,_ and I did indeed see a creepy scene where many women were being trained to be Joo Dee; that was very disturbing. I hope that the heroes can break the tyrannical control that Long Feng and the _Dai Li_ have over Ba Sing Se.

Has anyone here noticed that in the second season, the Fire Nation is not quite as major an antagonist as it was in the first season? The heroes are encountering a greater amount of conflicts with either the Earth Kingdom elite or minor villains and antagonists. I like that, for it gives greater depth and complexity to the world of the series.

It was very good to see Appa reunited with Aang; he has been through a terrible ordeal, and now he is together with his friend and companion, again.

I like how Zuko and Iroh have a chance for a new life, and I am glad that Iroh finally chastised Zuko for his recklessness. It is rather unfortunate that Zuko shall not don his Blue Spirit identity again, but I am glad that he is now focusing on making his own destiny. Of course, I do not expect Iroh and Zuko's new life to last forever, for the plot and rule of drama demand that they return to the Fire Nation to confront Ozai and Azula, as unfortunate as that may be for them.

I doubt that Long Feng is gone from the story just yet; the heroes may have defeated him, but it was only a minor victory, not a complete and crushing defeat.

How unfortunate it is that Jet has died; I liked his personality and fighting style, even if I disagreed with his extremist attitude. I regrettably learned of his death before watching that episode, and even before I started watching the series, simply because the series is so very popular, similarly to how I knew that Aerith would die in _Final Fantasy VII_ before I played that game. However, in both situations, I did not know when or where the characters' deaths would occur, so they still had great emotional impact for me (or at least Aerith's death did, at this point in the series, and in my life, I have learned to not be greatly surprised by major characters dying, especially because I have been reading _A Song of Ice and Fire,_ in which many characters die).

Now that the heroes have Appa back, what is there to do? Will they attempt to liberate Ba Sing Se? And what about the elderly man whom Appa encountered?



Nøøps said:


> Actually J, Long Feng taking Appa was more of a bargaining chip where in exchange for appa, Aang and the gang would keep their noses out of Ba Sing Se's buissiness.
> 
> or atleast, thats how i thought it was playing out by the time i was on the episode you are on.



Yes, that does make sense to me, but now that he has lost that bargaining chip, what power does he have against the heroes?


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## Burke (Oct 17, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _Lake Laogai,_ and I did indeed see a creepy scene where many women were being trained to be Joo Dee; that was very disturbing. I hope that the heroes can break the tyrannical control that Long Feng and the _Dai Li_ have over Ba Sing Se.
> 
> Has anyone here noticed that in the second season, the Fire Nation is not quite as major an antagonist as it was in the first season? The heroes are encountering a greater amount of conflicts with either the Earth Kingdom elite or minor villains and antagonists. I like that, for it gives greater depth and complexity to the world of the series.
> 
> ...



Lol, are those last questions more rhetorical, because we know the exact answers to them.


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## Wan (Oct 17, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Has anyone here noticed that in the second season, the Fire Nation is not quite as major an antagonist as it was in the first season? The heroes are encountering a greater amount of conflicts with either the Earth Kingdom elite or minor villains and antagonists. I like that, for it gives greater depth and complexity to the world of the series.



Indeed.  That's part of what made season 2 so fantastic, from a storytelling perspective.  Avatar has never been a show with entirely clean-cut lines between good and evil.  In season 1, we saw that not all of those from the Fire Nation were evil- Shyu the fire sage helped Aang at Roku's temple, Jeong Jeong tried to help Aang learn firebending, and Iroh lashed out at Zhao for killing the Moon Spirit.  We also saw a bit that the Earth Kingdom was not good- Jet, specifically, and also the Mechanist who was supplying the Fire Nation with weapon designs (he actually designed the Drill- there's a schematic for it in the weapon room at the Northern Air Temple).  In Season 2, we get even more Earth Kingdom antagonists- General Fong in the very first episode, the soldiers Zuko encountered, Xin Fu, and the Dai Li.  This theme of some Fire Nation people being good and some outside being evil will continue into season 3, though not as strongly as season 2.  I agree, this unpredictability of who are truly allies or really enemies is part of what makes Avatar so rich and enjoyable.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 17, 2010)

If Sozin's Comet enhances the power of fire-bending, is there any natural phenomenon that enhances the bending of the other elements?

If Sozin's Comet appeared in the sky at the same time that a solar eclipse occurred, how would such a combination of events affect the power of fire-bending?

It seems that apart from the power of the Avatar and bending, there are no other supernatural or magical powers in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender._ However, could an item or object have magical power, or would that violate the established rules of supernatural power in this series' universe?


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 18, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If Sozin's Comet enhances the power of fire-bending, is there any natural phenomenon that enhances the bending of the other elements?
> 
> If Sozin's Comet appeared in the sky at the same time that a solar eclipse occurred, how would such a combination of events affect the power of fire-bending?
> 
> It seems that apart from the power of the Avatar and bending, there are no other supernatural or magical powers in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender._ However, could an item or object have magical power, or would that violate the established rules of supernatural power in this series' universe?


It's full moon for Waterbenders, that's about it. The two polar opposite bending styles are only ones that have known power boosts.

If Sozin's Comet occurred during an eclipse, then regular power firebenders. 

And I thought we went over this already, there are.


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## Darth (Oct 18, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I believe that a joke is not funny if it needs to be explained, and similarly, irony loses its effect when it needs to be explained, but I must do so here.
> 
> The irony of the situation is derived from the fact that Mark Hamill's most famous role is that of Luke Skywalker in the _Star Wars_ movies. His character's (Luke's) father is not at all a loving parent and wishes for him (Luke) to use his powers for evil. As Fire Lord Ozai, Mark Hamill is now the abusive, evil parent who wishes for his son (Zuko) to use his (Zuko's) powers for evil purposes, thus completely reversing his role (from an out-of-universe perspective).



Actually, Mark Hamill just voiced a fairly main protagonist in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep.

So there goes that theory.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 18, 2010)

Darth said:


> Actually, Mark Hamill just voiced a fairly main protagonist in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep.
> 
> So there goes that theory.



What theory? I was not forming any theory, I was merely stating that Mark Hamill's role as Ozai is a complete reversal of his role as Luke Sjywalker. Also, the fact that Hamill provided the voice for a protagonist in a _Kingdom Hearts_ game is irrelevant to this subject.

I just finished watching _The Earth King,_ and before I comment on that episode, I noticed that Sokka had his club in that episode, despite the fact that it was among the items that the desert bandits removed from Appa's saddle in _Appa's Lost Days._ How did Sokka recover it? He was never shown to be recovering it, and I highly doubt that the bandits would politely return it to him.

In many series, both western and Japanese, I have become frustrated with seeing the heroes feebly attempt to get out of a dangerous situation, or otherwise act in a very unintelligent manner that leads them into many awkward situations. Therefore, it was a very welcome sight for the heroes to storm the Earth King's palace without hesitation and defeat the guards, although the Earth King was completely correct when he said that he could not trust the heroes after all that they had done.

I see that the Earth King himself was a rather timid man, but he did have some common sense, despite having never been outside of his palace. I am glad that the heroes had to work to prove that a war was occurring; I do not want making progress to be too easy for them.

I am glad that Long Feng was arrested, but also that the Dai Li remains loyal to him; I believe that Long Feng can still contribute to the plot (that is, I believe that it is too soon for his role to be over yet).

I was worried about Zuko's health when he became ill, but I now am glad that he has recovered and decided to help Iroh with his tea shop. His dream, however, was a very interesting one, and I wonder if it foreshadows any future events of the series.

Finally, I also like how Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee disguised themselves as Kyoshi warriors to gain access to Ba Sing Se; that was a very clever tactic, for no one in Ba Sing Se has ever met the Kyoshi warriors and thus would not know that the three of them were impostors.

With that being said, I have been wondering about something: Azula has thus far been operating and conquering territory in her father's name, but what if she decided that that was insufficient for her? What if she wanted to conquer territory in the name of "Fire Lady Azula?" Would her attempting to overthrow her father be an interesting plot twist?


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## Level7N00b (Oct 18, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If Sozin's Comet enhances the power of fire-bending, is there any natural phenomenon that enhances the bending of the other elements?
> 
> If Sozin's Comet appeared in the sky at the same time that a solar eclipse occurred, how would such a combination of events affect the power of fire-bending?
> 
> It seems that apart from the power of the Avatar and bending, there are no other supernatural or magical powers in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender._ However, could an item or object have magical power, or would that violate the established rules of supernatural power in this series' universe?



There are a lot of factors that can help or hinder a person's bending.

Firebending is enhanced by Sozin's Comet. A solar eclipse shuts it off. Bending in warm places helps Firebending, as well as when the sun's high in the sky. And Firebending's more powerful during the day.

A full moon amps up Waterbending, and a lunar eclipse cuts it off. Waterbending is also stronger at nighttime in general.

And yes, bending is the only supernatural power in the series. And there aren't any items that can help you become powerful. Your either born a bender and become excellent at it, or you better train you ass off like Jet, Mai, and Ty Lee so you can fight on par with masters like Aang and Katara.

And, Azula cannot overthrow Ozai, she just doesn't have the means to do so.


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## Burke (Oct 18, 2010)

Even if the sun was eclipsed, the firebending would still be super powerful during the comet. While it is in orbit, firebenders use it as their source of heightened power, and not as an enhancement.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 18, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _another wall of text contained within_ 







Nøøps said:


> Even if the sun was eclipsed, the firebending would still be super powerful during the comet. While it is in orbit, firebenders use it as their source of heightened power, and not as an enhancement.



Yes, that makes sense to me, and I am glad to hear that, for it would be too anti-climactic for the main antagonists of the series to be completely powerless when the time for the final battled arrived.



Level7N00b said:


> There are a lot of factors that can help or hinder a person's bending.
> 
> Firebending is enhanced by Sozin's Comet. A solar eclipse shuts it off. Bending in warm places helps Firebending, as well as when the sun's high in the sky. And Firebending's more powerful during the day.
> 
> ...



I agree with most of what you have said here, Level7Noob, except for the final line. Azula has shown that she is remarkably talented and resourceful (and she is even listed under the "Magificent Bastard" page at _TV Tropes),_ and although she certainly is not at the same level of "magnificent bastardy" as Aizen, Light Yagami, or Emperor Palpatine, I do not believe that it is impossible for her to that she could find people in the Fire Nation who would be willing to support her in an attempt to overthrow her father.

I just watched _The Guru,_ and first, how unfortunate it is for the heroes that they revealed information to Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee; however, that is a sign that the three of them were successful at infiltrating the Earth Kingdom. before I continue on that subject, is there a collective term for the team of Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee? There being a name for their team would be very convenient. I also believe that they look very attractive dressed in Kyoshi warrior clothing with Kyoshi warrior face-paint.

Toph being able to bend metal was quite an impressive feat, and I was wondering if an earth-bender would eventually be able to do that, for metal is derived from the earth, but it simply is altered.

It was very touching to see Sokka be reunited with his father, and his father acknowledge him as a warrior, but very unfortunate that Sokka had to leave so soon after arriving to go help Katara.

As for the Guru himself, I have much to say, and ask. First, the Guru mentioned _chakra,_ which is a concept in actuality, originating in India, and also the concept from which the Chinese concept of _chi_ and the Japanese concept of _ki_ are derived. In the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ are _chakra_ and _chi_ the same thing, or are they different?

Can an ordinary bender (such as Toph, Katara, or Zuko) master their _chakra?_ What about a non-bender (such as Sokka, Mai, or Ty Lee)? If any of them could master their _chakra,_ what effect would doing so have upon them?

I was very glad that Aang was unable to completely master his _chakra_ and left to rescue Katara, because he seemed to be mastering his _chakra_ too quickly, and it still is too early, in my mind, for him to have complete control over his Avatar state.

I expect the second season's finale to be as awesome as that of the first season. I have started it now, and I shall post again when I have finished watching it.


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## Wan (Oct 18, 2010)

Chi and chakra are separate things in Avatar.  Chi is the network of energy through the body which is used to enable bending; chakras are that specific line of "energy pools", apparently unrelated to bending as a whole.  As for non-Avatars unlocking their chakras, I don't know if there would be a tangible benefit like allowing access to the Avatar State.  It probably would help people emotionally, though. (Zuko could certainly use it...)


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 18, 2010)

There is no conceivable way for Azula to overthrow Ozai. Not only is his power world's above hers, his cunning and treachery is as well. She's simply a lesser version of him, and thus makes for a worthy antagonist in a show where the Big Bad is concealed most of the time.


The fandom took it upon themselves to call the Fire Nation girls Ozai's Angels.


As for the season finale of Book 2, I ranked it #1 in my 11-part ranking.


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## Burke (Oct 18, 2010)

Jove said:


> There is no conceivable way for Azula to overthrow Ozai. Not only is his power world's above hers, his cunning and treachery is as well. She's simply a lesser version of him, and thus makes for a worthy antagonist in a show where the Big Bad is concealed most of the time.
> 
> 
> The fandom took it upon themselves to call the Fire Nation girls Ozai's Angels.
> ...



Whats a discussion about Azulas power without touching on the fine topic of "NO SHE WAS MENTALLY UNSTABLE QQQQQQQ"


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## Ausorrin (Oct 18, 2010)

Hey you guys, just wanted tp talk about my favorite characer Uncle Iroh.

Now when Iroh was first introduced, I honestly thought he was just gonna be for comical use and nothing else.  As the series progressed, I realized that he had more depth to him depth is a good thing.  Like when the ying and yang spirits were about to be destroyed, Iroh objected to them being killed.

As the series went on, it was revealed that Iroh was actually next in line to be fire lord but after his son died, he couldn't handle it.  In the episode "tales of ba sing se", which is my favorite episode from Season 2, Iroh is shown helping various people around the town.  At the end of his section, he is shown paying respect to his deceased son.  I later learned that one of the people that played in Samurai  Jack was honored as well which was cool too.  I think his name was Mako.

As the series was progressing, the old comical guy was turning into a mentor for Zuko.  He provided hope and helped Zuko though some of the most imporant times in his life.  

Then, it was revealed that he was part of the White Lotus.  The scene where him and the other members take back Ba Sing Se is one of the best moments of the show for me.  His deep breathing under Sozin's Comet was enough to bring fire around him.  At the end, Iroh was shown liberating the city.

Iroh is one of my favorite characters from the show.  He had a reason for doing a lot of things.  He had depth to him and he showed Zuko the right path.

As a side note, do you guys think that Iroh could have taken on Fire Lord Ozai and beat him?


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## Burke (Oct 18, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Dont look J!_ 





Ausorrin said:


> Hey you guys, just wanted tp talk about my favorite characer Uncle Iroh.
> 
> Now when Iroh was first introduced, I honestly thought he was just gonna be for comical use and nothing else.  As the series progressed, I realized that he had more depth to him depth is a good thing.  Like when the ying and yang spirits were about to be destroyed, Iroh objected to them being killed.
> 
> ...






That would be Aku, the Shapeshifting Master of


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## Heloves (Oct 18, 2010)

So what's the new Avatar show going to be about?


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 18, 2010)

Azula is actually too much of a daddy's girl to ever think of overthrowing Ozai

Despite seeming so self-reliant, she invests a lot of emotional worth in the people around her, especially her father. So she IS weak, like all people are.


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## Ausorrin (Oct 18, 2010)

helovestowrite said:


> So what's the new Avatar show going to be about?




It's gonna be called " The Legend of Korra".  Korra is the next avatar and is from the souther water tribe.  She has already mastered earth, water, and fire and needs to learn air.  Also, Aang's son Tenzin will be helping her.  I think it was said that Aang died early because he was frozen for so long.  Since it is a spinoff from avatar the last aribender, you know it's gonna amazing and become the best show on Nickelodeon.  

Here's a link


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 18, 2010)

Nøøps, at this point in the series, I already know everything that Ausorrin mentioned in his or her post, so there is no need to caution me against reading it.



Jove said:


> There is no conceivable way for Azula to overthrow Ozai. Not only is his power world's above hers, his cunning and treachery is as well. She's simply a lesser version of him, and thus makes for a worthy antagonist in a show where the Big Bad is concealed most of the time.



Ozai is a greater version of Azula?  Wow: he must be a major badass, in that case.  Can he create blue fire or lightning? If Azula can, and he is more powerful than Azula, I would imagine that he could.



Jove said:


> The fandom took it upon themselves to call the Fire Nation girls Ozai's Angels.



Is that name a reference to Charlie's Angels?



Jove said:


> As for the season finale of Book 2, I ranked it #1 in my 11-part ranking.



I just finished watching it, and I also found it to be very impressive, but I shall make a separate post for my thoughts on it, as I have much to say about it.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 18, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Noops, at this point in the series, I already know everything that Ausorrin mentioned in their post, so there is no need to caution me against reading it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, blue is exclusive to Azula, because she is calm and focused, while Ozai is more raging and passionate.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 18, 2010)

Which itself is amusingly ironic, since Ozai's confidence level is gargantuan compared to Azula's, even when Azula was at her most sincerely haughty.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 19, 2010)

Well, he is the Goddamn Joker


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## ElementX (Oct 19, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Nah, blue is exclusive to Azula, because she is calm and focused, while Ozai is more raging and passionate.



But isn't blue fire even more intense than regular flames? I get the color imagery but still. 

Btw first time posting in this thread. I love the show, can't wait for Korra.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 19, 2010)

Ausorrin said:


> As a side note, do you guys think that Iroh could have taken on Fire Lord Ozai and beat him?




*Spoiler*: __ 



Personally, I think Iroh would defeat Ozai, He said, he didn't know if he could. But Iroh isn't one to boast about his own powers, and was just being cautious. Iroh has techniques Ozai doesn't know, such as being taught be Ran and Shaw, as well as lightning redirection, something Ozai also doesn't know, and obviously has never seen before. Not to mention, Iroh's a better strategist and tactician. Overall, it'd be a close fight, but I still see Ozai losing.






DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, Ozai can create lightning. However, he cnannot use blue fire. That would take away it's importance from Azula and make her not seem so unique. And yes, Ozai would stomp Azula's pretty face in.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 19, 2010)

Well, the second season did not end with a massive battle, as did the first season, but it was still an excellent ending. I was glad to see that Aang, Sokka, and Toph allied with Iroh to rescue Zuko and Katara, forgetting their old differences to work toward a common cause.

On the subject of Zuko and Katara, when the two of them were imprisoned together, that was the third time that the two of them have directly interacted with each other (the first being when Zuko captured Katara in _The Waterbending Scroll_ and the second being when Zuko fought Katara in _The Siege of the North),_ but this is the first time that they have interacted in a positive manner. I shall imagine that this is the first scene that inspired the idea of Zuko and Katara being a romantic couple, but it is only a single scene, which is not sufficient for supporting a relationship between th two of them. Therefore, I shall imagine that they two of them interact much more frequently in the final season, especially considering that it is likely that a significant portion of the third season shall be set in the Fire Nation.

Because of how Zuko and Katara interacted in this episode, I was very surprised that Zuko chose to ally himself with Azula and attack Aang and Katara. I was hoping that he had decided to stop attempting to regain his father's approval and make a new life for himself. I really hope that Zuko does not remain this way, and that he has a happy ending eventually.

I also was very impressed to see that Katara was giving Azula a good fight, but I was glad that Zuko interrupted that fight, because, although I have said this many times now, only Zuko should have the privilege of being the one to defeat Azula.

When Katara offered to use the special water from the North Pole to heal Zuko's scar, but was interrupted before she could do so, I suspected that she would need it to heal another drastic injury, as the vial containing that water had not been mentioned since its introduction prior to that scene.

The most emotional and surprising part of this episode was Azula striking Aang with lightning while he was in the Avatar state. It was very fortunate that Katara was able to heal his initial injury, but that did not seem to guarantee that he would survive, and because Aang was fatally wounded while he was in the Avatar state, will the cycle of reincarnation be broken, and the Avatar's power lost forever?

As for Ba Sing Se, the city has now been taken over by a new government, one even more tyrannical than the previous one. I certainly hope that the citizens of the city can survive under this new regime.

In summary, this was an excellent finale for the second season, and I hope the the third season is as excellent as were the first two.


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## Wan (Oct 19, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On the subject of Zuko and Katara, when the two of them were imprisoned together, that was the third time that the two of them have directly interacted with each other (the first being when Zuko captured Katara in _The Waterbending Scroll_ and the second being when Zuko fought Katara in _The Siege of the North),_ but this is the first time that they have interacted in a positive manner. I shall imagine that this is the first scene that inspired the idea of Zuko and Katara being a romantic couple, but it is only a single scene, which is not sufficient for supporting a relationship between th two of them. Therefore, I shall imagine that they two of them interact much more frequently in the final season, especially considering that it is likely that a significant portion of the third season shall be set in the Fire Nation.



Not really, Zutara got started up by the scene in "The Waterbending Scroll".  Crazy people seemed to think there was some kind of sexual tension in that scene.  The creators knew about Zutara shippers by the time they made "Crossroads of Destiny", and made that scene, along with a suggestive TV spot leading up to its premiere, to mess with the Zutara shippers.  They did it again a couple times in season 3.



> Because of how Zuko and Katara interacted in this episode, I was very surprised that Zuko chose to ally himself with Azula and attack Aang and Katara. I was hoping that he had decided to stop attempting to regain his father's approval and make a new life for himself. I really hope that Zuko does not remain this way, and that he has a happy ending eventually.



Keep in mind that Zuko's goals have never changed.  He still wants to regain his honor, the respect of his father, and the privilege to return home.  He has no reason to see his father as evil- at least, no more than he initially had when exiled.  He now sees the merit of Aang's quest to bring peace, but he wants his position as Prince of the Fire Nation more than he wants that peace.  He is good, and wants to do good, but does not see the Fire Nation and his father as evil.



> The most emotional and surprising part of this episode was Azula striking Aang with lightning while he was in the Avatar state. It was very fortunate that Katara was able to heal his initial injury, but that did not seem to guarantee that he would survive, and because Aang was fatally wounded while he was in the Avatar state, will the cycle of reincarnation be broken, and the Avatar's power lost forever?



The obvious answer is "no", since the upcoming series focuses on the next Avatar after Aang.  However, there was a danger of the Avatar spirit being lost after the lightning.  In an online flash comic series between season 2 and season 3, Aang had to go into the spirit world while unconscious and reconnect with his four most recent lives.  Meanwhile, Koh tried to stop him.  The whole thing seemed unnecessary, though, as it was explained to Aang that when he awoke he would have no memory of this.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 19, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Not really, Zutara got started up by the scene in "The Waterbending Scroll".  Crazy people seemed to think there was some kind of sexual tension in that scene.  The creators knew about Zutara shippers by the time they made "Crossroads of Destiny", and made that scene, along with a suggestive TV spot leading up to its premiere, to mess with the Zutara shippers.  They did it again a couple times in season 3.



I agree with this. The Zutara shippers seem to think that there is some sort of connection between Zuko and Katara that will inevitably make hem get together in the end. 

Stupid pairing is stupid.


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## herpaderpaderp (Oct 19, 2010)

That's true Zutara is so cute >w<!!!


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## Superstarseven (Oct 19, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Not really, Zutara got started up by the scene in "The Waterbending Scroll". The creators knew about Zutara shippers by the time they made "Crossroads of Destiny", and made that scene, along with a suggestive TV spot leading up to its premiere, to mess with the Zutara shippers.  They did it again a couple times in season 3.



I remember the one you're talking about. It was a static image of Katara touching Zuko's face and the very first promo for the second season finale. Mike and Bryan had nothing to do with that though. They _did_ have everything to do with Book 4:Air. Now that was having fun with Zutara shippers.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 19, 2010)

Technically, Zutara really began in Imprisoned.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 19, 2010)

Damn I linked up to one of the ZUTARA Evidence for the Intellectual Dummy videos, not realizing that these were done while Book 3 was airing.
Suffice it to say, they were insane.


----------



## Iria (Oct 19, 2010)

I heard Zutara and I came running pek

The joke is that most Zutarians don't really care about canon, or contrary evidence etc. we just like the idea of the pairing.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Oct 19, 2010)

I thought Zutara was a character I had forgotten.


But, no, it's some gay pairing.


----------



## Iria (Oct 19, 2010)

Its quite heterosexual


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Oct 19, 2010)

Not that kinda gay, brah. The kind of gay that makes you want to have sex. With women.


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## Wan (Oct 19, 2010)

Iria said:


> I heard Zutara and I came running pek
> 
> The joke is that most Zutarians don't really care about canon, or contrary evidence etc. we just like the idea of the pairing.



Now you say that, and you're reasonable for saying that.  But there were some crazy Zutara diehards that insisted Zutara would happen all the way up to the series finale.  Some insane people, I'm sure, held out hope Katara would break up with Aang and go with Zuko even after the finale.  Tenzin kind of puts a wrench in that theory.


----------



## Iria (Oct 19, 2010)

I admit that I was hoping for a turn up-to and through the finale. I cherished the moments between the two, especially the Southern Raiders, an episode which to Zutarians was like a shooting star of light and happiness...brilliant and fleeting. 

And I admit it was hard to watch those final seconds of the finale and most Zutarians worth their salt end the series as the scene pans out to everyone in the tea-house and refuse to watch or acknowledge anything further.

But with time and patience I understand that it never was and never will be, except in my own fantasies  And that has become kind of a source of strength for our fandom: We survived the Zutarian let-down. We can survive anything*!



* read: Live action movie, Tenzin etc.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 19, 2010)

Iria said:


> Its quite heterosexual


Really? Isn't Zuko a girl?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 19, 2010)

Hey Renee, do you ship Taang? You're a Zutarian, so it should be self-evident, but you're a rational Zutarian so you might not. Or, you might even _sincerely_ ship it.


----------



## Iria (Oct 19, 2010)

Jove said:


> Hey Renee, do you ship Taang? You're a Zutarian, so it should be self-evident, but you're a rational Zutarian so you might not. Or, you might even _sincerely_ ship it.



No. I like Aang alone. At least for now (as in the whole of the first series, not having seen anything from the new one) it seems to me his light-hearted childishness is better suited to being a "nomad" romantically for awhile.

Toph's sexuality is questionable to me. But shes much too young for such foolishness, lol. 



Hangat?r said:


> Fucking shippers...



The mark of a solidly interesting story with true depth of characters is the ability to analyze the relationships between them all


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## Ryth76 (Oct 19, 2010)

> No. I like Aang alone. At least for now (as in the whole of the first series, not having seen anything from the new one) it seems to me his light-hearted childishness is better suited to being a "nomad" romantically for awhile.


Same here, only I prefer Katara with no one, too.

I don't really mind most ships with them, as long as it's not Kataang or Zutara, but I don't really like them either.


> Toph's sexuality is questionable to me. But shes much too young for such foolishness, lol.


How is she too young?  And how is her sexuality questionable?


> The mark of a solidly interesting story with true depth of characters is the ability to analyze the relationships between them all



Quoted for truth. :33


----------



## Wan (Oct 19, 2010)

Iria said:


> The mark of a solidly interesting story with true depth of characters is the ability to analyze the relationships between them all



Hamlet x Ophelia   Hamlet x Horatio


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 19, 2010)

Iria said:


> Toph's sexuality is questionable to me.



She likes Sokka.


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## Ryth76 (Oct 19, 2010)

Exactly what I was thinking.

She _could _be bi, but it's very clear she is attracted to the opposite sex.  Thus, she is either straight or bi with a preference for guys.


----------



## Iria (Oct 19, 2010)

Shes 12 years old rofl 

I try not to ship pre-teens.

Try being the operative word.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 19, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I can understand the possibility of Zuko and Katara being a couple, but if a couple that exists in canon makes that pairing impossible, then I believe that any people who continue to support it are being somewhat irrational and fanatic, and I apply this philosophy to the fandom of any popular series.

I understand the feelings of these people, truly, I do; I once supported Rukia/Ichigo and Uryu/Orihime in _Bleach,_ but after events in recent chapters of that series, I  now support Ruki/Renji, Orihime/Ichigo, and Uryu/Nemu. In _Naruto,_ I support Sasuke/Sakura and Naruto/Hinata, and am very worried that these pairings may not become a reality, mostly because a pairing of Naruto and Sakura is still possible. In _Onegai Teacher,_ I briefly entertained the possibility of Kei and Maho being a couple, but then fully supported Kei/Mizuho when the series made it apparent that they were an official couple. In _Tenchi Muyo!,_ I support the pairing of Tenchi and Sasami, despite Ayeka and Ryoko being more likely candidates for forming a couple with Tenchi. By far my greatest disappoint was in _Digimon Adventure 02,_ when Takeru and Hikari did not become a couple at the end. I felt devastated and betrayed when I witnessed their fate, but I eventually overcame such feelings, and I believe that anyone who is displeased that Katara and Zuko did not become a couple would be wise to overcome their feelings on that subject.

As for the idea of alternate universe fanfiction, I am less certain about that; I am planning on writing alternate universe fiction for one or several series that I am following, but I believe that if a person is excessive in indulging in such fiction, they can become irrational and forget what actually happened in the series.

Now, to change the subject: I just watched the first episode of season three, and I see that it started quite intensely. First, where have the Duke and Pipsqueak been for all this time? Will that be explained, I hope? Is Katara the only water-bender in the entire Southern Water Tribe? Regardless of that, her skills seem to have improved tremendously. I liked the interaction between her and her father Hakoda, and was very glad that the two of them reconciled at the end.

On the subject of Hakoda, I would rather not make a spectacle about the pronunciation of names in this series, but I simply am bothered by how his name is spoken. Do most English speakers have a problem with pronouncing Asian names? "Hakoda" is an actual Japanese name, but the characters in the series stress its middle syllable, which native Japanese speakers would not do. Of course, I am perfectly aware that Japanese people have difficulty with English names, and that I am being somewhat obsessive on this subject, but not stressing the middle or second syllable of many names (such as Azula, Omashu, Haru, or Hakoda) is a remarkably easy task that requires almost no effort. How difficult can it be for a native English-speaker to adjust their speech pattern in such a manner?

That subject aside, I also see that Aang's hair has been growing, as he has been unable to shave it. It is a very different appearance for him, but I like it, and hope that he grows it out longer.

With that being said, I see that Zuko has regrown his hair, as well, and on the subject of Zuko, I see that he has finally regained his honor and is now in his father's favor. However, when I learned that Azula gave the credit for defeating Aang to Zuko, I knew that she had a reason for doing so, and I was not disappointed. If Aang should somehow be still alive, Zuko would be shamed and dishonored even more than before, and he could not expose Azula's treachery without making the situation even worse for himself.

When Zuko confronted Azula in her bedchamber, did anyone here detect any sexual tension between the two of them, especially with Azula's poses and tone of voice? I have heard some people speak of incestuous subtext between the two of them, but I regard it with the same attitude that I have for the idea of Katara and Zuko being romantic couple: I simply acknowledge that it is feasible, but not likely.

Finally, Ozai's face has been revealed! I have waited to see it since his first appearances in Zuko's flashbacks, but isee that he is quite young in his appearance, actually, which makes me wonder how many years younger he is than Iroh, his brother, who looks to be in his early fifties. I was excited about him being voiced by Mark Hamill, but now that I have heard him speak for more than one or two lines at a time, I am sorry to say I find his voice to be rather ordinary and not sufficiently distinctive for such a major antagonist. Mark Hamill's Joker voice was unmistakable and perfectly suited his character, but I cannot say the same for Ozai's voice. Perhaps I shall grow to like it as time passes, and perhaps in a more dramatic scene, Hamill will be able to make it sound more distinctive.

I also am glad that Aang has decided to remain in hiding, for he does have a major advantage now that everyone believes him to be dead. I also see that he was filled with regret because he was not able to save Ba Sing Se, so I wonder if the final season will be much darker and more serious than were the first two seasons.


(Wow, my posts in this thread are extremely substantial in terms of word count!)


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 19, 2010)

Iria said:


> Shes 12 years old rofl
> 
> I try not to ship pre-teens.
> 
> Try being the operative word.



12 year olds can have crushes.  They can also have innocent romantic relationships. 

Not really important, but from my own personal experience, when I was 7, I had a crush on an 8-year-old, who had an 8-year-old _girlfriend_ who he spent all his time with talking and being generally sweet to.   Granted, my first real crush was when I was 4 on one of my peers, but that's aside the point.  And nothing has changed since then.  When I worked with kids for my church a few years back as a teenager, I still saw things like that.

But whatever floats your boat.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 19, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Really? Isn't Zuko a girl?



Are you being serious or sarcastic? Zuko is a man, and he is very masculine in his appearance and mannerisms, or at least I believe him to be so. What about him seems feminine to you?



Iria said:


> Toph's sexuality is questionable to me. But shes much too young for such foolishness, lol.



I am not certain about the "too young" part of your post, but being that this series is meant for children, it is not likely that the sexual preferences of the characters, or even their sexuality at all, shall be addressed within the series itself. That is very unfortunate, in my mind, for while I do believe that this series works well at its current age rating, it being rated TV-14 would have allowed for a greater range of behaviors by the characters and plot conflicts in the story. As for Toph herself, she seems to be heterosexual to me, but unless someone asks the creators of the series that question at a convention, I am not certain that the audience shall have a proper answer to it.



Iria said:


> The mark of a solidly interesting story with true depth of characters is the ability to analyze the relationships between them all



Yes, I absolutely agree with this statement, and also state that I believe that the characters in this series have great depth in terms of personality and development as the series progresses.


----------



## Iria (Oct 19, 2010)

I want to respond to (actually: read) your post Demon, but let me just correct an error I made about saying "Toph is too young," first.

Since we are all talking about "ship" preferences I will rephrase it to "I am not interested in shipping Toph."

I think its perfectly natural to have romantic feelings at the age of 12. In fact, I think I did myself. 

But much like my view of Aang, there is a youthful and free-spirited air about Toph that makes me want her to hold on to her independence (in its truest sense) for awhile longer.

I have no problem with Taangers or even Kataangers (the canon winners in this whole thing). Its just, respectfully, not my cup-of-tea.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 19, 2010)

Demon, regarding your question about The Duke and Pipsqueak. The creators decided to do something interesting and bridge the story from the fall of Ba Sing Se to where we see Aang wake up through comics that were released in an all Avatar edition of the now defunct Nick Magazine. The Duke and Pipsqueak decided to go their own ways soon after finding Jet's actions too extreme with the flooding of the Earth Kingdom city, which explains their absence from Season 2 during the Ba Sing Se mini-arc.

They eventually find their way on the very Fire Nation ship that Hakoda and his men hijacked trying to steal food. So they make nice with the rest of team Avatar and there you have it. I'll find a link to it so that you can read it. There's also another comic where you see the start of Zuko and Mai's romantic relationship and why he ultimately decided to leave for the Fire Nation.

Anyway DDJ, if one had to argue for a less restrictive rating I think that TV-PG would be the way to go. The series definitely pushed their TV-Y7 rating to it's limit so all it would have needed is perhaps a bit more freedom to cover what you talked about. TV-14 would have just allowed perhaps for some more intense violence and harsher language which probably wouldn't have served the show very well.
Mike and Bryan did say that the one thing Nick censored from the show was a much more graphic depiction of Jet's death. A TV-PG-V rating would have most likely allowed for that scene to be animated.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 20, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Demon, regarding your question about The Duke and Pipsqueak. The creators decided to do something interesting and bridge the story from the fall of Ba Sing Se to where we see Aang wake up through comics that were released in an all Avatar edition of the now defunct Nick Magazine. The Duke and Pipsqueak decided to go their own ways soon after finding Jet's actions too extreme with the flooding of the Earth Kingdom city, which explains their absence from Season 2 during the Ba Sing Se mini-arc.
> 
> They eventually find their way on the very Fire Nation ship that Hakoda and his men hijacked trying to steal food. So they make nice with the rest of team Avatar and there you have it. I'll find a link to it so that you can read it. There's also another comic where you see the start of Zuko and Mai's romantic relationship and why he ultimately decided to leave for the Fire Nation.
> 
> ...



Yes, the explanation about The Duke and Pipsqueak makes sense, and I was not aware of the existence of the TV-PG rating, or I would have suggested it, instead.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 20, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's no point in complaining about the names 

However, I do have a complaint on how their names are written in Chinese, which is a bit awkward in pronunciation and meaningwise 

And no, I did not sense any sexual tension in that scene, because none exists in it.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 20, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, Katara is the only Waterbender in the Southern Tribe. As you noticed in the beginning, he Southern Water Tribe is puny compared to the Northern Tribe, in size, and population, because the Northern Tribe has Waterbenders out the ass!

Yes, I noticed it too. I was quite obvious that there was something sexual about the way Azula motioned herself around Zuko. And that was the moment the Zucest shippers started the pairing, writing those i*c*st stories. You;ll hear lotsa reason why people think there could be something more than animosity between them most likely. 

Iroh is in his sixties, Ozai is in his forties or fifties. But either way, the dude can pass for being 35! But Ozai's calm voice is not so interesting, just wait until you hear him raise his voice to someone, or better yet, scream. It really feels more _him_.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 20, 2010)

Figured I'd post this here.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fKbby1U1Ts&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Apparently the kid in this video was an used as a basis for Aang according to the creators.
This was released in 2002 which is right around the time Mike and Bryan were forming ideas for what kind of show Avatar would be.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 20, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> There's no point in complaining about the names
> 
> However, I do have a complaint on how their names are written in Chinese, which is a bit awkward in pronunciation and meaningwise
> 
> And no, I did not sense any sexual tension in that scene, because none exists in it.



But in fairness, Rekky, a lot of people interpreted that scene as exploding in sexual tension. I kinda of picked up that vibe as well, and it wasn't voluntary; I think it was just an unfortunate sequence of set and design choices.

So, for once, DDJ hasn't gone out of his way to imbue sex into the narrative.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 20, 2010)

Jove said:


> But in fairness, Rekky, a lot of people interpreted that scene as exploding in sexual tension. I kinda of picked up that vibe as well, and it wasn't voluntary; I think it was just an unfortunate sequence of set and design choices.
> 
> So, for once, DDJ hasn't gone out of his way to imbue sex into the narrative.


I suppose I'm a shade more innocent or something to not see it


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## CrazyMoronX (Oct 20, 2010)

What does "shipping" mean? Because if that's Avatar slang for bonin', I'm all over it.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 20, 2010)

CrazyMoronX said:


> What does "shipping" mean? Because if that's Avatar slang for bonin', I'm all over it.



Relationships.

Aang-Katara, or as the fans call it Kataang shipping means you support them as a couple.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Oct 20, 2010)

Oh, you people and your silly words. 

I totally ship Toporonx.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 20, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am not certain how I should react to that last line; are you saying that I can perceive sexual subtext in any story that I follow?



It appears that way. I'm still trying to grasp how excessive it was in The Drill.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 20, 2010)

Jove said:


> It appears that way. I'm still trying to grasp how excessive it was in The Drill.



Are you referring to the physical item of the drill and its assault on the walls of Ba Sing Se, or to my commentary on it?


----------



## Burke (Oct 20, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you referring to the physical item of the drill and its assault on the walls of Ba Sing Se, or to my commentary on it?



That was a major one. Along with your view of Ty lee's "pink" aura.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 20, 2010)

N??ps said:


> That was a major one. Along with your view of Ty lee's "pink" aura.



I admit that my comment about Ty Lee's aura was rather unnecessary, for only by a great stretch of imagination could her words be considered to be suggestive, but surely, I cannot be the only person here who thought that the drill was very suggestive. I explained my reason for believing so in a thorough and logical manner, so I actually am surprised that no one else here believes that the drill or its assault upon Ba Sing Se were suggestive.


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 20, 2010)

You're not alone.  I think it's very easy to see suggestive themes in _The Drill_.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 20, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> You're not alone.  I think it's very easy to see suggestive themes in _The Drill_.



Good; I am very glad to learn that I am not the only user here who saw suggestive themes regarding the drill.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 20, 2010)

I was really hoping that the DVD would contain some of the scenes the commercials showed but the movie never played. My hopes were crushed with what I've read recently, that and it comes out on the 16th of November. 

Can't believe there isn't anything new about the series yet :/


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 21, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> You're not alone.  I think it's very easy to see suggestive themes in _The Drill_.


Yes, it was quite obviously an allegorical take of Tim the Toolman Taylor's constant clashing with Al Borland's peace of mind. The Drill obviously represented Tim Taylor's destructive lust to put more power into everything. One could say that the Drill was a manifestation of the trifling energy Tim has against Ba Sing Se; which is obviously allegorical of Al Borland's more reserved and wisened restraint. If you listen closely, the grinding and the groaning of the machinery in the drill is actually Tim Taylor's well known grunts slowed down several times and played on top of each other. The firenation was a wise choice to represent Tim Taylor, lust for more power, a brash self-confidence in it's own wisdom and sense. And the Earth Kingdom too could not have been a better fit for Al Borland. As you know, geographically superimposed on our world map, Ba Sing Se coincides with the area of Scotland where the local tribe's plaid pattern is now a very common pattern for flannel shirts. And like Al Borland, the Earth Kingdom is closed off, stout, wise, and a bit vainglorious in it's self assurance. And of course, who can forget, that since at the time, Avatar was only a few time slots away from Home Improvement on Nick at Nite. 

But obviously, the subtext was just screaming at us about the controversial topic that since the airing of the episode, has remained a haunting, and chilling relevant point. Yes, who could miss the deep commentary The Drill had about the pollen count? Before then, I was a staunch supporter of the mold count awareness. That is, until I saw the drill. The Drill was the pollen count's An Inconvenient Truth, and the issues it imparted to us still raises many debates today.

And for good measure, Nietzsche's Super Man, and some Sigmund Freud, sure, why not?

Speaking of Freud, sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry DDJ, as I wrote before--their romantic relationship won't be explained in the series.
Read this
*[VOTE Mexican God]*


----------



## Time Expired (Oct 21, 2010)

^ lol ReikaiDemon



DemonDragonJ said:


> I admit that my comment about Ty Lee's aura was rather unnecessary, for only by a great stretch of imagination could her words be considered to be suggestive, but surely, I cannot be the only person here who thought that the drill was very suggestive. I explained my reason for believing so in a thorough and logical manner, so I actually am surprised that no one else here believes that the drill or its assault upon Ba Sing Se were suggestive.



Nah - I think you'll find very few people who will agree with your appraisal.  Respectfully, I believe your opinion on the episode was/is seriously overreaching.  The drill is simply a drill: a siege/breach weapon adapted to suit the shows specific style.  What's more, the technology is not out of place either within this episode or series in general.  It's intermixed throughout, and later developments (such as the drill itself or Fire Nation airships) were foreshadowed within Book 1 - specifically _The Northern Air Temple_ and the creations of the Mechanist.  It very much serves as an platform for the steampunk aspects carried forward into the new series.

In far as what you've seen concerning "suggestive" material, well - it's all Azula's fault.  I mean, she's driving that ENORMOUS phallus.  She's the one assulting those walls...or, to further complicate, she's in charge ordering War Minister _Ching_ to carry out the assault.  

It's just all so wrong.


----------



## Noah (Oct 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> durrhurr derpty derp herp.



Anyone with a sense of cinematography, imagery or symbolism should be able to see what DDJ was talking about. I remember more than one person in this thread mentioning it before he came along, and I can absolutely see it. Is it there? Yeah. Is it supposed to really mean anything, aside from a drill going into a wall? Nope.

He's not wrong, but he's looking a bit too far into it. The pink aura thing is really stretching it though. That's nothing more than her character being a girly girl. Don't worry, though! There's plenty of dirty innuendo (some subtle, and some not at all) to come in Book 3. This book is all about defeating FireLords and dicks getting wet. 

 Also: 
*Spoiler*: __ 





No symbolism, my ass


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 21, 2010)

Noah said:


> Anyone with a sense of cinematography, imagery or symbolism should be able to see what DDJ was talking about. I remember more than one person in this thread mentioning it before he came along, and I can absolutely see it. Is it there? Yeah. Is it supposed to really mean anything, aside from a drill going into a wall? Nope.



But that's exactly the point. It's not substantive evaluation. You can't go anywhere with it, and it's ridiculous to begin with. Of course it looks phallic. _It's a fucking drill_.

Pointing that out says nothing about the narrative, says nothing about Avatar's allegorical reflections upon the human condition. It's nothing. Unless it's being mentioned ironically, then it's a BIG something.

Speaking of, I wish we had a Theater pic at the top of the page, like Society Library. That pic would be the Theater pic forever, and Para and I would have to physically fight over it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 21, 2010)

I suppose this means Azula is a futanari.

Not that that changes anything, or is it new...


----------



## Noah (Oct 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> But that's exactly the point. It's not substantive evaluation. You can't go anywhere with it, and it's ridiculous to begin with. Of course it looks phallic. _It's a fucking drill_.



Partially correct. It's a _fucking drill that builds up with goo and EXPLODES all over teenage girls and plasters cheerleader chicks to the wall_

GOO. EXPLOSION.



> Pointing that out says nothing about the narrative, says nothing about Avatar's allegorical reflections upon the human condition. It's nothing. Unless it's being mentioned ironically, then it's a BIG something.



Well yeah. Pointing it out does nothing for the viewer or the story.

Until you remember you're watching a GIANT PENETRATING CYLINDRICAL DEVICE FILL WITH GOO AND EXPLODE.

Azula saw Ba Sing Se and was all 



> Speaking of, I wish we had a Theater pic at the top of the page, like Society Library. That pic would be the Theater pic forever, and Para and I would have to physically fight over it.



Well, derp. There's nothing else in history that can compare.

....except possibly the original SL image. That thing was AVATAR.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 21, 2010)

Me personally, I was waiting for Sokka to hijack the the drill, and activate it's mecha mode that the Firenation for some reason didn't know of. 

Then, he dons sunglasses.

It was the day I stopped believing


----------



## Burke (Oct 21, 2010)

Hmm, goo explosion... Ok, you got me Noah


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Could you possibly explain that statement? How would Azula being a _futanari/_hermaphrodite "not change anything," or how would it be "nothing new?"


Man, you're no fun


----------



## Burke (Oct 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Man, you're no fun



Dude, and this is coming from reikai, like, the king of keeping arguments going




jk, loves you kinda


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 21, 2010)

I wonder what happened to the Earth King? I hope that in his travels across the world, he does not encounter too much danger or trouble.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Me personally, I was waiting for Sokka to hijack the the drill, and activate it's mecha mode that the Firenation for some reason didn't know of.
> 
> Then, he dons sunglasses.
> 
> It was the day I stopped believing



Are you a fan of _Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann,_ might I ask?



Superstarseven said:


> Sorry DDJ, as I wrote before--their romantic relationship won't be explained in the series.
> Read this
> *[VOTE Mexican God]*



Thank you for providing that link; are those comics considered to be canon to the series? They certainly seemed to be, to me. Why was that scene not in the series? I liked that scene; it gave more depth to the pairing of Zuko and Mai and was also a respite from the increasingly-serious main storyline of the series. When Mai said "now we are even," to Zuko, was she referring to the time when Zuko accidentally knocked her into the water in an attempt to extinguish the apple atop her head that Azula had set ablaze?

Anyway, I just watched _The Painted Lady,_ and I do not have as much to say about that episode as I have about other episodes. I was glad that Katara made an effort to assist the people of Jang Hui, but I noticed a possible plot hole in that episode; the Painted Lady was not mentioned until after the first time that Katara had assisted the people under her identity, so how did Katara know of the legend to be able to act as the Painted Lady?

I liked how in that episode, the Fire Nation's common citizens were also being affected negatively by the war effort, so the other nations are no the only people suffering currently, and I was also glad that the protagonists were able to cleanse the river and free the village from the factory's influence. I hope that they continue to assist people that they encounter (despite Sokka's reluctance to do so), for doing so will likely affect the overall attitude of the people of the Fire Nation toward other nations and life in general.

Reikai Demon, your post does not answer my question: again, how would Azula being a hermaphrodite not be surprising? Would such a condition be considered inappropriate for a TV-Y7-rated series?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I was glad that Katara made an effort to assist the people of Jang Hui, but I noticed a possible plot hole in that episode; the Painted Lady was not mentioned until after the first time that Katara had assisted the people under her identity, so how did Katara know of the legend to be able to act as the Painted Lady?



I'm pretty sure that Katara herself specifically states (while explaining the whole thing to Aang) that she didn't dress as the painted lady the first time she went into the village (at night). I was only after hearing the villagers talk about the painted lady the next day that she decided to use that as a disguise in her subsequent visits.


----------



## JellyButter (Oct 21, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> I agree with this. The Zutara shippers seem to think that there is some sort of connection between Zuko and Katara that will inevitably make hem get together in the end.
> 
> Stupid pairing is stupid.



They were suppose to be love -___-

Now Katara's with Aang.
What kind of pairing !?
I mean can it get any cuter than ZukoxKatara ?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 21, 2010)

Except for the part where neither Katara or Zuko ever showed even the slightest romantic interest in each other in any way whatsoever.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 21, 2010)

I support the canonical couples of Aang/Katara and Zuko/Mai, and I must admit that there has been very little positive interaction between Zuko and Katara, so I sympathize with people who support that couple despite it not being a feasible one. However, I do believe that the creators of this series are being rather nasty toward people who support that couple; I just saw this video on _YouTube,_ and while I do not support the pairing of Katara and Zuko, I do not see any need to treat it with the level of contempt that DiMartino and Konietzko have for it; the comment that Sokka made in that video was very rude, in my opinion. I believe that the fans have a right to support that couples that they wish to support, and by telling people that they "will forever have doomed relationships" if they support a non-canonical couple is simply heinous, in mind.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I'm pretty sure that Katara herself specifically states (while explaining the whole thing to Aang) that she didn't dress as the painted lady the first time she went into the village (at night). I was only after hearing the villagers talk about the painted lady the next day that she decided to use that as a disguise in her subsequent visits.



I suppose that I missed that detail; thank you for pointing it out to me.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 21, 2010)

JellyButter said:


> They were suppose to be love -___-
> 
> Now Katara's with Aang.
> What kind of pairing !?
> I mean can it get any cuter than ZukoxKatara ?



Eh, just my opinion. I could care less, as long as Zuko didn't end up with Katara.


----------



## Time Expired (Oct 21, 2010)

Not much for shipping, but IMO Zuko and Mai were born for one another.  Thought it was hysterical when Ty Lee was chasing/flirting with Sokka.  Despite the fact that Hakoda voiced my opinion of Suki during the second half of _The Boiling Rock_ perfectly, I would have been happy either way it went for Sokka.   It's all good  



H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Carved pumpkins today with an aunt and one of my little cousins. I haven't carved a pumpkin in a decade, but I still decided to try to do Korra. It's really sloppy, but Korra herself came out ok:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __





That's some good stuff ~ by Jove...  



Seriously, it's wicked.


----------



## Piekage (Oct 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I support the canonical couples of Aang/Katara and Zuko/Mai, and I must admit that there has been very little positive interaction between Zuko and Katara, so I sympathize with people who support that couple despite it not being a feasible one. However, I do believe that the creators of this series are being rather nasty toward people who support that couple; I just saw this video on _YouTube,_ and while I do not support the pairing of Katara and Zuko, I do not see any need to treat it with the level of contempt that DiMartino and Konietzko have for it; the comment that Sokka made in that video was very rude, in my opinion. I believe that the fans have a right to support that couples that they wish to support, and by telling people that they "will forever have doomed relationships" if they support a non-canonical couple is simply heinous, in mind.



Really? I always thought they were joking. Seemed like something made in good fun, especially since the seem to make fun of every couple thing in that vid.


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 21, 2010)

It was a joke, but that doesn't make it feel any less mean or uncalled for.  And the timing was horrendous.


----------



## Noah (Oct 21, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> It was a joke, but that doesn't make it feel any less mean or uncalled for.  And the timing was horrendous.



On the contrary, it was absolutely called for and perfectly timed.

When something is so passionately defended, the only right thing to do is rub it in the loser's face.


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 21, 2010)

Uh... No.  Just no.

Most people call that being a sore winner and acting very childish and unsportsmanlike.


----------



## Noah (Oct 21, 2010)

Winners don't have time for sportsmanship.

Not that it matters anyway, since the only thing Bryke won at was having an AVATAR show conclude on Nick. If they were being sore winners, they would've showed a mock trailer for Zim instead.


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## Ryth76 (Oct 21, 2010)

-Facepalm-  That wasn't my point.  My point was that rubbing it in the faces of the losers because they were/are passionate about a ship that sunk isn't necessary or nice.  Let alone 'the right thing to do'.

And I disagree.  Winners shouldn't rub their win in the losers' faces.  Otherwise they prove themselves the real losers. Or at least that is the general belief on the subject where I live.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 21, 2010)

I think people who let that shit get to them is just at fault as the offender for investing so much worth into it. 

People just need to lighten up, take a step back; it's pretty ridiculous to boo hoo and ha ha over a bunch of cartoon characters pairing off canonically.

In fact, being a cartoon is no excuse either, ANY pairing, whether in real life or fiction, it's useless to get riled up over.


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## Noah (Oct 21, 2010)

Sounds like you come from a place full of losers. Judging by your set location, I'd say I'm right. 

Where I come from, you either bask silently in your victory or tell the loser "Good try! Better luck next time!" and then punch them in the dangle.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 21, 2010)

Noah said:


> Sounds like you come from a place full of losers. Judging by your set location, I'd say I'm right.
> 
> Where I come from, you either bask silently in your victory or tell the loser "Good try! Better luck next time!" and then punch them in the dangle.


No, I come from a place where it's rather pathetic to invest so much worth into who hooks up with who, regardless of who wins or loses.

Also, that was unnecessarily rude of you to say that about me, why so confrontational?


----------



## Noah (Oct 21, 2010)

^That was directed at Ryth. You just happened to post while I was spending 7 minutes deciding how many zaru's I need to throw in.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 21, 2010)

Noah said:


> ^That was directed at Ryth. You just happened to post while I was spending 7 minutes deciding how many zaru's I need to throw in.


My apologies *offers cookies*


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## Noah (Oct 21, 2010)

I only accept said cookies if they are made with the blood and tears of a thousand Zutarans and baked in a pan constructed from the bones of Jackie Diaz herself.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 21, 2010)

Noah said:


> I only accept said cookies if they are made with the blood and tears of a thousand Zutarans and baked in a pan constructed from the bones of Jackie Diaz herself.


What a coincidence, I got the recipe from Martha Stewart


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 22, 2010)

I believe that in a competition or a battle, both the winner and loser should demonstrate proper sportsmanship. I apply this philosophy to every aspect of my life, and this includes romantic pairings in fictional stories. In summary, I believe that both those who do support the pairing of Zuko and Katara, and more importantly, those who do not support it, need to act maturely and respect both the other group's opinion and also the actual events of the series.

To change the subject, I just finished watching _Sokka's Master,_ and at last, there is an episode focused on Sokka and his development as a character. I have been waiting nearly three seasons for such an episode. Sokka is the only non-bender in the group of heroes, so I was wondering for how much longer he could tolerate that or when there would be an episode dedicated to him and how he dealt with that situation. I liked his interactions with Piandao, especially how he was honest and did not boast about his skills (or lack thereof). I was hoping for more than a single episode focusing on Sokka's training with Piandao, because it seemed to me that he was not with Piandao for a very great duration, but it was still excellent to see him growing and developing as a character. Hopefully, Sokka will be much more badass and awesome for the remainder of the series, being able to fight with impressive skill and not being such an awkward and sarcastic joker anymore.

Being made from a meteorite, does Sokka's sword have any special properties, apart from likely being incredibly strong and nearly indestructible? Even if it does not, being nearly indestructible is a very impressive quality itself, so I am definitely very fond of Sokka's new weapon (the sword that he forged from the meteorite, to be specific).

Another highlight of this episode for me was Iroh training himself in prison. For being his age, he is in remarkably good physical condition, and I am hoping to see him eventually break out of that prison and be a complete badass when doing so.

I see that Piandao is also a member of the order of the White Lotus; I am now wondering what exactly that order is, for it obviously is very important to the story, yet almost nothing has been revealed about it thus far. I really hope that Sokka is sufficiently wise and intelligent to keep that tile and not throw it away, for I am certain that it will be important later (i.e., it is a "Chekov's Gun"-type item).


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 22, 2010)

*@Posts above DemonDragonJ's*

I still do not find Bryke's joke appropriate, especially after how some Avatar episodes were advertised and how Nick Magazine handled the subject of ships, but that's my personal opinion.  And nothing anyone says is going to change that.



Noah said:


> Sounds like you come from a place full of losers. Judging by your set location, I'd say I'm right.



It's called a joke.  It's just some thing I put in for the lulz.  



> Where I come from, you either bask silently in your victory or tell the loser "Good try! Better luck next time!" and then punch them in the dangle.


The former sounds like how things are where I come from, and part of the latter.  Until you reached the part with the punch.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I believe that in a competition or a battle, both the winner and loser should demonstrate proper sportsmanship. I apply this philosophy to every aspect of my life, and this includes romantic pairings in fictional stories. In summary, I believe that both those who do support the pairing of Zuko and Katara, and more importantly, those who do not support it, need to act maturely and respect both the other group's opinion and also the actual events of the series.
> 
> To change the subject, I just finished watching _Sokka's Master,_ and at last, there is an episode focused on Sokka and his development as a character. I have been waiting nearly three seasons for such an episode. Sokka is the only non-bender in the group of heroes, so I was wondering for how much longer he could tolerate that or when there would be an episode dedicated to him and how he dealt with that situation. I liked his interactions with Piandao, especially how he was honest and did not boast about his skills (or lack thereof). I was hoping for more than a single episode focusing on Sokka's training with Piandao, because it seemed to me that he was not with Piandao for a very great duration, but it was still excellent to see him growing and developing as a character. Hopefully, Sokka will be much more badass and awesome for the remainder of the series, being able to fight with impressive skill and not being such an awkward and sarcastic joker anymore.
> 
> ...


Yes, Sokka can use the sword to steal the bending attacks from other benders and whip it back at them, or store for later use.

He can also imbue it with his chi, and shoot low powered beams, each averaging the power of a fairly strong punch. 

Piandao is much more skilled with it though, when he steals Sokka's  sword, his beams can punch through thick walls, and snap steel.

And if close enough, he can call it back to his hand. It is the only weapon that can exist in both the spirit realm and the main realm; therefore, it is the only weapon that is able to slay Koh.


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 22, 2010)

Sokka will still be awkward and sarcastic (what would he be without his sarcasm?), but he's kinda cool with the sword.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Yes, Sokka can use the sword to steal the bending attacks from other benders and whip it back at them, or store for later use.


Wait...he can? :amazed

I didn't see any of this...


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## Noah (Oct 22, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> It's called a joke.  It's just some thing I put in for the lulz.



For the lulz is not a term that can be fully understood with your level of humor, kind sir. But that's okay. It is to be expected.



> The former sounds like how things are where I come from, and part of the latter.  Until you reached the part with the punch.



Where I come from, everyone looks like this guy: 

Not only do we all look exactly like this, but this is the required victory pose in which we must silently bask. The pose is to be held for no less than 41 minutes, and if it is even a second short, you forfeit your victory and the village proceeds to defecate in your shoes while you are forced to watch the mayor take advantage of your girl.

If, however, you have done the math and realized that you cannot hold this pose for the allotted time, you have the option of the "So sorry, bro" bagsmash.

That is a secondary option only, but unfortunately, in the hurried times that we live it, it's becoming more like our primary celebratory anthem.

P.S. Space Sword is broken. Airships, tanks, and firebenders in general don't stand a chance against Sokka once he gets that thing. It's almost unfair how God Tier that thing is.


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 22, 2010)

> For the lulz is not a term that can be fully understood with your level of humor, *kind sir*. But that's okay. It is to be expected.



I'm a woman.   And stop being such a jerk just because I don't share your opinions.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Yes, Sokka can use the sword to steal the bending attacks from other benders and whip it back at them, or store for later use.


Really.

Can his sword really do all that?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

Noah said:


> For the lulz is not a term that can be fully understood with your level of humor, kind sir. But that's okay. It is to be expected.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even Aang in his Avatar state didn't stand a chance, he was almost killed by Sokka by accident. I thought it was pretty shoddy that they copped out by having Sokka feel too guilty from using it more in the future when they tried to give Sokka more power by letting him absorb Aang's bending attacks in his Avatar state.


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## Ryth76 (Oct 22, 2010)

*@Terra:* Lol, no.  He's just joking around.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> *@Terra:* Lol, no.  He's just joking around.



Whoo, thank goodness.

I thought I missed something like a book or mini episodes whilst I was gone


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

Party poopers


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## Noah (Oct 22, 2010)

Something is seriously wrong with a thread when I'm agreeing with Reikai


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## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

Party poopers?!

You guys were making me think I had gone insane!


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Party poopers?!
> 
> You guys were making me think I had gone insane!


You don't need us for that


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## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You don't need us for that



Please, I'm the most sane person on this forum 

Unless you mean the cool insane that also qualifies for the sexy insane


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

This is an asylum after all


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

Space Sword is still the #2 as far as Sokka Accessories go.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Space Sword is still the #2 as far as Sokka Accessories go.



Its only cool 'cause Sokka uses it 



ReikaiDemon said:


> This is an asylum after all


Maybe for you and Noah  I wasn't the one talking nonsense about Space Swords


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

I haven't made a list in here in a while. How about it?


*Top 5 Sokka Accessories*

5. Ponytail Holder

4. Katara

3. Boomerang

2. Space Sword

1. Hawky


*SOKKA IS HAWKY'S ACCESSORY*


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## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

Katara? Huh wha?


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

It was pretty awesome how Sokka went all Batman after his trauma with his sword. His mini-rangs never seemed to run out for some reason.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Katara? Huh wha?



Sokka made brilliant use of her a number of times.


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## Noah (Oct 22, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I haven't made a list in here in a while. How about it?
> 
> 
> *Top 5 Sokka Accessories*
> ...



I believe you mean Warrior Wolf Tail Holder.

And I can't believe you forgot Momo. He had to borrow him to get Suki all riled up, remember? That's gotta put him above Katara.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

Just an aside, the last Mystery Inc. episode was genius, Harlan Ellison AND Lovecraft? *mind blown* And Jeffrey Combs playing the Lovecraft expy and Harlan Ellison AS HIMSELF? The new Scooby has won it's place in my heart for me


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

Noah said:


> I believe you mean Warrior Wolf Tail Holder.
> 
> And I can't believe you forgot Momo. He had to borrow him to get Suki all riled up, remember? That's gotta put him above Katara.




But Momo was more of a Toph Accessory.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

So Sokka put her into his accessory list? lol


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

The way Sokka used her to Waterbend Aang out of the iceberg made the entire show possible.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> The way Sokka used her to Waterbend Aang out of the iceberg made the entire show possible.



Still, its a little harsh of Sokka


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 22, 2010)

Two other things that I forgot to mention that I liked about _Sokka's Master_ were: first, how Piandao believed that knowledge of swordfighting is not limited to members of any one nation; and second, the armor that Aang tested while in the weapon shop; that armor was very badass.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 22, 2010)

I believe it's either a homage or a parody (or both) of Nightmare's armor, from Soul Calibur.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 22, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I just finished watching _The Beach,_ and I enjoyed this episode very much. I expect to receive mixed reactions to my following statement, but I definitely believe that this episode, or at least the first half of it, contained a great amount of sexual and suggestive content, mostly in the interactions between Mai, Ty Lee, Azula, Zuko, and the guests at the party. A particularly noteworthy instance of this was when Azula said that Ty Lee was "easy" and "a tease" after Ty Lee had been attracting the attention of many boys. Although I believe that Azula could have been more tactful in what she said, I agree with her that Ty Lee is rather "ignorant" and naive.

At first, I thought that this episode was evidence that the series had taken inspiration from Japanese animation, providing the audience with an "obligatory beach episode," but it actually was a very serious episode, providing much insight into the personalities and backgrounds of the main Fire Nation characters. The scene where Azula, Zuko, Mai, and Ty Lee were conversing around the campfire was my favorite scene in the episode. I understand Zuko's anger and confusion perfectly, for I felt very similar (albeit not quite to such an extreme extent) when I was his age. It was also good to see Mai expressing emotion for once, even if the emotion was anger, and I also appreciated learning more about Ty Lee's background.

I was surprised by how Azula was acting in this episode, for she seemed almost normal, or as close to normal as she can be. She normally seems to be sadistic and maniacal, yet her personality was rather subdued in this episode (with the exception of two scenes, which I shall address shortly), and I almost sympathize with her (the keyword in that sentence being "almost"). I notice that she was jealous of Ty Lee's ability to attract the boys at the party, and while I do not normally hold such a belief, I wonder if Azula had ever had a meaningful romantic relationship, she may have been different than how she is now.

Of course, Azula could suppress her megalomaniacal tendencies for only so long, and when she made dramatic exclamations after winning the Kuai Ball game and then after kissing Chan, I found her actions to be rather humorous than serious. I also see that she was applying her exceptional tactical skills to the game of Kuai Ball, noticing the pigtailed girl's weakness and exploiting it, not that the four of them needed to do so, with their great physical prowess.

As I mentioned before, I see that this episode contained fanservice, but it also contained fan _disservice_ in the form of Li and Lo first attempting to strike the same pose that they had when they were younger and then revealing their swimsuits. Zuko attempting to not vomit and Mai covering his eyes in response to those actions were quite humorous.

How might have the people at the party have reacted if Zuko and Azula revealed their true identities? Would they be show respect, or would they not believe them?

As for Team Avatar, I see that not much of the episode focused on them, but Aang was very foolish to dive into a large pool of water where anyone could see him, and did so immediately after Toph warned him to be careful. Aang was remarkably lucky that Zuko had hired Combustion Man to prevent anyone from ever learning that he (Aang) was alive.

On the subject of Combustion Man, I found him to be very awesome, especially his ability to bend with only his thoughts. It is very unfortunate that Combustion Man will likely be only a "villain of the week"-type character, as the idea of bending without physical movements is very awesome and would actually be very useful for many characters. I imagine that his special bending ability is related to the tattoo on his forehead?

Finally, the scene at the end of the episode, in which Zuko, Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee destroy the house, was very interesting but also somewhat disturbing to me. It was great to see the arrogant Chan and Ruon-Jian humiliated in such a manner, but that was definitely disproportionate retribution, in my mind. Also, the fact that the four of them had grins on their faces during and after wreaking havoc on the house was rather unsettling. I can perfectly understand Azula enjoying such destruction, but not any of the others, and especially not Ty Lee, who is always very cheerful and does not become angry very easily. I know that they finally bonded and felt like actual friends to the first time in many years, but the fact that they did so by destroying other people's homes and lives makes me wonder if they have sociopathic tendencies.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I believe it's either a homage or a parody (or both) of Nightmare's armor, from Soul Calibur.



Yes, I did see the resemblance.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is "The Beach"? I am afraid you are mistaken, and watched another show.

Also, CM doesn't bend with his thoughts, he internally bends, using a chi kung-like technique. Technically, everyone uses their mind to bend, CM purely uses breath control.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What is "The Beach"? I am afraid you are mistaken, and watched another show.



According to this website , the fifth episode of the third season is indeed entitled _"The Beach,"_ so I do not know why you said that.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Also, CM doesn't bend with his thoughts, he internally bends, using a chi kung-like technique. Technically, everyone uses their mind to bend, CM purely uses breath control.



Yes, that makes sense to me, but it is still very impressive that he does not need to use his limbs to control his element. Why has no other bender, apart from Bumi, learned that skill? It would be remarkably advantageous in battle, in my opinion.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> According to this website , the fifth episode of the third season is indeed entitled _"The Beach,"_ so I do not know why you said that.



That never happened.


Also, Aang's armor is a parody of those things and a joking nod to all the suggestions that Mike and Bryan had received when devising Aang's character.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> According to this website , the fifth episode of the third season is indeed entitled _"The Beach,"_ so I do not know why you said that.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that makes sense to me, but it is still very impressive that he does not need to use his limbs to control his element. Why has no other bender, apart from Bumi, learned that skill? It would be remarkably advantageous in battle, in my opinion.


For one, it's not really advantageous, you're hurling huge explosions,  sure; but you're pretty much a turret. Anyone quick enough could close  the gap, or if you're outnumbered, you'd be pinned down. Which is why he  always finds a high vantage point or someplace not easy to get to, and  snipe the crowds. He's less a combatant, and more a sniper. There's  limited uses in a fight when using his style of bending. It has large  radius of splash damage, so it would be suicidal in close ranges; it  takes a relatively long time to charge, and there's no way to alter it's  trajectory once fired.

Plus, to make things worse, CM is quite stupid.

What is this beach you keep talking about? I think you watched some fan video or something.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

No, Rekky, he means The Beach that aired on Nick.

The "Make Your Own Episode of Avatar and We'll Air It and Therefore It Will Become Canon" contest that Nick ran with the Burger King tie-in.

 I remember I was SURE that I had a pull-off winner, but the adhesive was too strong and I couldn't for the life of me pull it off.


----------



## Time Expired (Oct 22, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> But Momo was more of a Toph Accessory.



Momo is in ascendancy, above all, on high: Toph was his accessory.

Momo


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 22, 2010)

@DDJ: No, they aren't at all mentally unstable. It was more of a being a teenager and just doing things that any retarded teenager would do. In the end, they all got closer to each other and learned something about themselves.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that makes sense to me, but it is still very impressive that he does not need to use his limbs to control his element. Why has no other bender, apart from Bumi, learned that skill? It would be remarkably advantageous in battle, in my opinion.



Because it is a unique skill that only Combustion Man knows. He apparently discovered it at a young age and screwed up, thus blowing off his own arm and leg, which is why he wears fake ones. His bending style isn't of great use in close range because he could possibly hurt himself, which is why he is always at a distance.


----------



## Omolara (Oct 22, 2010)

^ Really? I was always under the impression that he tried to bring his mother back from the dead. 

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> No, Rekky, he means The Beach that aired on Nick.
> 
> The "Make Your Own Episode of Avatar and We'll Air It and Therefore It Will Become Canon" contest that Nick ran with the Burger King tie-in.
> 
> I remember I was SURE that I had a pull-off winner, but the adhesive was too strong and I couldn't for the life of me pull it off.


Was it the one where the Burger King activated the Whopper State?


Omolara said:


> ^ Really? I was always under the impression that he tried to bring his mother back from the dead.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


And then he got turned into a Homunculus


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 22, 2010)

Omolara said:


> ^ Really? I was always under the impression that he tried to bring his mother back from the dead.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Family connections man nothing to the CM. He is only focused with blowing things up.


----------



## Time Expired (Oct 22, 2010)

Omolara said:


> ^ Really? I was always under the impression that he tried to bring his mother back from the dead.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



                   .


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

CM must be a Mythbuster


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Was it the one where the Burger King activated the Whopper State?



But was twarted thanks to a last-minute double cross by CROISSAN'WICH? Man.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 22, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> But was twarted thanks to a last-minute double cross by CROISSAN'WICH? Man.


OMFG, spoilers please!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 22, 2010)

I'm not pandering to those that need them at this point. 

"Burger King, you and your forefathers have underestimated the BK™ Ultimate Breakfast Platter, and now you must pay the ultimate price. "


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 22, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> The "Make Your Own Episode of Avatar and We'll Air It and Therefore It Will Become Canon" contest that Nick ran with the Burger King tie-in.



Wait, what? What was this about?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 23, 2010)

How else would you explain The Beach?


----------



## NeoKurama (Oct 23, 2010)

I remember how I started liking this show just 2 years ago.


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 23, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> How else would you explain The Beach?





Good writing.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 23, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> How else would you explain The Beach?



I double-checked and triple-checked the _Avatar: the Last Airbender Wikia_ page, and there was no indication that _The Beach_ was the result of a contest in which fans could write their own episode of the series. It seems to me that you are in denial about that episode for some reason, and I believe that being in denial about anything is extremely unhealthy for any person.


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 23, 2010)

A lot of Avatar fans dislike the episode for some reason.  I thought it was pretty good, honestly.


----------



## Noah (Oct 23, 2010)

The Beach was by far the greatest piece of animation and writing since Ren & Stimpy came back. Anyone who disagrees is obviously a r'tahd. 

...and at which point are we finally just going to rename this thread "Gullibility: The Thread (Guest Starring Aang & Friends)" ?


----------



## Koi (Oct 23, 2010)

I don't care what anyone says: I liked _The Beach_.  It was a fun episode. 

Just hearing Azula say, "My mother thought I was a monster.  She was right, of course, but it still hurt. /poutface" was totally worth it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 23, 2010)

I can't seem to read the last few posts here for some reason, I think my mind may be trying to protect me for some reason...


----------



## Koi (Oct 23, 2010)

​


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 23, 2010)

Wow. Are the last several minutes of The Beach really that bad?
Guys, seriously. Get off it already. Cyber choke for everyone if it continues.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 23, 2010)

_981 minutes of incredibly satisfying mimesis_

_Zuko walks into old house_

_Zuko walks towards fire_

*ZUKO*: _(aggressively)_NOW I'M JUST GOING TO TELL YOU HOW I FUCKING FEEL!

*AZULA*: _(condescendingly)_NOT BEFORE I EXPLICITLY STATE MY FEELINGS FIRST

*TY LEE*: (passionately)THE BOTH OF YOU CAN JUST SIT THERE WHILE I READ MY CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT RIGHT OFF THE PAGE

MAI: I'm just here for the fire. 


_MEANWHILE..._




*AANG*: (excitedly) LET'S GO TO THE BURGER KING ON WHALE TAIL ISLAND NEXT!


----------



## Koi (Oct 23, 2010)

.._I_ want to go to the Burger King on Whale Tale Island.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 23, 2010)

Must be a vegetarian Burger King


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 23, 2010)

He got a garden salad with unsalted french fries and a Dutch Apple Pie.


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 23, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I double-checked and triple-checked the _Avatar: the Last Airbender Wikia_ page, and there was no indication that _The Beach_ was the result of a contest in which fans could write their own episode of the series. It seems to me that you are in denial about that episode for some reason, and I believe that being in denial about anything is extremely unhealthy for any person.







Ryth76 said:


> A lot of Avatar fans dislike the episode for some reason.  I thought it was pretty good, honestly.



Heh, I wasn't aware of that.


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 23, 2010)

Depends on what part of the internet you're at, I suppose.  Still, it wasn't (and isn't, in some sites) a popular episode.  Still, pretty much everyone agreed that 'The Great Divide' was still the worst.


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 23, 2010)

Now "The Great Divide" I heard about a lot. People were very vocal with their dislike for that episode, and I  don't blame them one bit.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 23, 2010)

The Great Divide wasn't that awesome. It really had a cop out ending.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 23, 2010)

Thought, the Gainax styled animation was neat


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 24, 2010)

When Aang attended the Fire Nation school in _The Headband,_ the other students were being discouraged from expressing themselves or engaging in fun activities, yet the similarly-aged citizens of Ember Island did not appear to have such stern discipline in their lives. Why is that? Is it because Ember Island is farther away from the mainland of the Fire Nation?


I really liked that image at the end of _The Beach,_ although Ty Lee's mouth looks funny in the semi-realistic art style that is being used in it.


Why do you post that image in response to my post?


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 24, 2010)

It's quite obvious that there is some brain washing going on in the schools of the Fire Nation. The children are taught the Fire Nation is the greatest civilization ever, but they leave out some *pretty *crucial details in their lesson plans. Like how Aang pointed out the Air Nomads had no military, since they were pacifists, making it seem as if the Air Nomad Genocide was an actual battle, rather than a sneak attack.


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 24, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why do you post that image in response to my post?



Because it became pretty obvious that he wasn't being serious.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 24, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When Aang attended the Fire Nation school in _The Headband,_ the other students were being discouraged from expressing themselves or engaging in fun activities, yet the similarly-aged citizens of Ember Island did not appear to have such stern discipline in their lives. Why is that? Is it because Ember Island is farther away from the mainland of the Fire Nation?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Level7N00b said:


> It's quite obvious that there is some brain washing going on in the schools of the Fire Nation. The children are taught the Fire Nation is the greatest civilization ever, but they leave out some *pretty *crucial details in their lesson plans. Like how Aang pointed out the Air Nomads had no military, since they were pacifists, making it seem as if the Air Nomad Genocide was an actual battle, rather than a sneak attack.


It's not unlike early Communist China, or even now. Perhaps in Firenation schools, the Air Nomad genocide were treated like a necessary cultural and economic reform like Mao era China. Like the occupation of Tibet and the persecution of the monks, nuns, and monasteries. Or even the undermining and persecution of the Shaolin.


----------



## NeoKurama (Oct 24, 2010)

I remember the marathon that came on teen nick.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Oct 25, 2010)

i watched the movie, that shit was awesome!!!

seriously though, i'm a big m night shymalan fan, might be the last one   anyway, he did a real good job with it, the only thing that fell flat was the relationship btwn white haired girl and the dude, but everything else was cool.

the racism was overblown, i'm sure the indians will turn good later, i'm thinking.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 25, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Thought, the Gainax styled animation was neat



Exactly. Great Divide is completely inconsequential, with barely any relevance or impact upon the plot, if any. But it was an amusing episode that contained those beautiful animation tricks. Avatar never experimented with it's fundamental art style, so I find those two sections to be a real treat.

And it's always fun to find myself subconsciously favoring the Zhangs because Katara supports the Gan Jins each time.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 25, 2010)

As far as animation goes, I was kind of hoping they'd reanimate the 1st season to look more like the second and third.  Also the first few episodes' score sounded a bit...off point.

If there's one thing I missed here it's reading DDJ's posts.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 25, 2010)

I just finished watching _The Avatar and the Firelord,_ but I do not have the time to post my thoughts about it now, so I shall do so later.



Mider T said:


> If there's one thing I missed here it's reading DDJ's posts.



I am very pleased to hear you say that; thank you very much. Why exactly did you miss reading my posts, I am wondering?


----------



## Mider T (Oct 25, 2010)

Btw, since I've been banned did we get any news on Korra?

@DDJ: You're style is unique to say the least.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone post quite the way you do.  Entertaining and informative, and the least bit funny


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 25, 2010)

I have noticed that Toph's name is both very masculine, despite her being a girl, and sounds similar to the English word "tough," which is an appropriate word to describe her personality. Is this deliberate, or merely a coincidence?

I also notice that the terms "bathroom" and "potty" have been used more than once in this series; those terms, as far as I can recall, are modern terms, and thus are out of place in a world modeled after ancient China. Therefore, is it reasonable to presume that their use in this series is because the target audience would be familiar with such terms?



Mider T said:


> Btw, since I've been banned did we get any news on Korra?
> 
> @DDJ: You're style is unique to say the least.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone post quite the way you do.  Entertaining and informative, and the least bit funny



I have not heard any new information about _Avatar: the Legend of Korra,_ but I am not diligently keeping track of that series until I finish the original series, so other users here may have more information about it that I do. And again, I am glad to hear that you like my posts; I do make a great effort to ensure that my writing style is wholly unique and different from that of everyone else.

As for _The Avatar and the Fire Lord,_ I found that episode to be a very intriguing episode, with many surprising twists and revelations. So, Fire Lord Sozin and Avatar Roku were best friends? That definitely adds a new element and character depth to both Roku and Sozin, and also helps to reinforce the idea that not everyone in the Fire Nation is evil. I already knew that since the first season, but in the case that there were any people in the audience who still thought that every citizen of the Fire nation was evil, this episode would remove any lingering doubt on that subject.

Roku and Sozin's relationship to me seems very similar to the relationship between Dumbledore and Grindelwald in the _Harry Potter_ series, not in that an antagonist and protagonist were once good friends, as that archetype is nearly as old as is storytelling itself, but in that they seemed to be more than simply "good friends." Does anyone here believe that there may be any homoerotic subtext in their relationship, or were they strictly platonic?

The revelation that Zuko is a descendant of Roku was also a surprise; that must be the "I am your father"-type revelation that I heard about on _TV Tropes._ Unfortunately, my prior knowledge of that revelation lessened its impact somewhat, although I thankfully did not know when it would occur or its details, so it still produced some amount of surprise in its revelation. This again adds complexity to Zuko's character, his relationship and parallels with Aang, and his internal struggle, which is why he is my favorite character in this series.

That episode also revealed that Aang was born shortly after Roku died, which likely means that each new Avatar is born shortly after the previous Avatar dies, rather than many years later. Will the identities of Aang's parents be revealed, or are they deliberately left unrevealed, to make his background blank?

I also see that a new voice actor, Greg Baldwin, has replaced Mako Iwamatsu as the voice of Iroh, because Iwamatsu died. His role is acceptable, but I am very accustomed to Iroh's first voice actor, so I shall attempt to not compare the two of them excessively and judge Baldwin on his own merits.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 25, 2010)

It was deliberate.

And no, I didn't pick any gay vibes.  Just good friends.

Also, that's how reincarnation works, born shortly/nearly immediately after the death of the previous life.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 25, 2010)

Toph's original design was a teenage, muscular boy. However they decided to throw in a curve ball and make her a seemingly feeble little girl, but with a contrasting personality. So, no, not a coinkidink.

It seemed that Sozin was indeed somewhat of a normal prince that obviously did not start out as a bad person. It is obvious that something in the 12 years Roku went away, Sozin underwent a change with his whole unification idea.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 25, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have noticed that Toph's name is both very masculine, despite her being a girl, and sounds similar to the English word "tough," which is an appropriate word to describe her personality. Is this deliberate, or merely a coincidence?
> 
> I also notice that the terms "bathroom" and "potty" have been used more than once in this series; those terms, as far as I can recall, are modern terms, and thus are out of place in a world modeled after ancient China. Therefore, is it reasonable to presume that their use in this series is because the target audience would be familiar with such terms?
> 
> ...


I like that it sounds like tofu too. In fact that's how it sounds written in Chinese. But yeah, Toph isn't a word in any language, and was made up to sound like tough. Also, her name written in Chinese has been changed twice in meaning, but remained the same phonetically.

What else do you want them to call it? The place where we go to pee and poop? 

Aang is sort of a special case when it comes to Avatar succession.

As for Sozin and Roku, no, it's just you.

Though, in Chinese culture, friendship is a very sacred thing. 

Offtopic, a little culture to amuse and enlighten, the Sichuan art of Face Changing is hundreds of years old, and has yet to be revealed how it is done to the people at large. It reminded me of Koh, and Hexadecimal.[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEgaC7EEsoc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 25, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> As for Sozin and Roku, no, it's just you.



That said, people in the fandom shipped this pairing like _crazy_. Possibly one of the top 5 most fervently shipped ships.


----------



## Koi (Oct 26, 2010)

I heard Rozin and I had to come in.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 26, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> That said, people in the fandom shipped this pairing like _crazy_. Possibly one of the top 5 most fervently shipped ships.



What are the other four pairings, in that case?

Also, on the subject of pairings, I have already stated that I support Zuko/Mai and Katara/Aang, but I do admit that Zuko/Katara has some appeal. Aang is only twelve years old physically and psychologically, and I would rather not see him become committed to a single person at such a young age. However, one pairing that makes no sense to me is that of Sokka and Azula; how did that pairing form? At the point in the series where I am currently, the two of them have never interacted at all, which is actually very unfortunate, because I am certain that interactions between the two of them would be very entertaining, so is the pairing of them a result of their siblings being paired?

Reikai Demon, I shall give you +rep for mentioning Hexadecimal from _Reboot;_ that is my favorite western animated series ever! It is very unfortunate that it is very obscure today.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 26, 2010)

Sokka gets all the ladies, that's fact


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 26, 2010)

Koi said:


> I heard Rozin and I had to come in.



LIKE I SAID 



DemonDragonJ said:


> What are the other four pairings, in that case?



Zutara
Kataang
Tokka
Zhao + Cake


----------



## Koi (Oct 26, 2010)

Zhao+Cake is really the only true OTP of the series.  All others pale in comparison.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 26, 2010)

The Sokka Azula thing probably came from the fact that they're the same age and he's the only one of the Gaang that Azula's ever addressed by name.  If she wasn't batshit their personalities might mesh as well.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 26, 2010)

He'l be taming that shrew rite


----------



## Wan (Oct 26, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Roku and Sozin's relationship to me seems very similar to the relationship between Dumbledore and Grindelwald in the _Harry Potter_ series, not in that an antagonist and protagonist were once good friends, as that archetype is nearly as old as is storytelling itself, but in that they seemed to be more than simply "good friends." Does anyone here believe that there may be any homoerotic subtext in their relationship, or were they strictly platonic.



NO.  Why is it that, in both fiction and history, whenever readers come across a strong friendship between two males their reaction is "OMG they must be GAY?"  Guys can have strong friendships without sexual attraction, you know.  It likely crossed the writers' minds at some point that "This could be taken an odd way...", but I highly doubt it was intended that way.  

We see from their first appearance as teens that Roku already had feelings for the woman he would marry.  There's no reason to believe he was attracted to Sozin, or vice versa.  And there wasn't any indication of bitterness that would have resulted at Roku's wedding (prior to Sozin's little talk).


----------



## Mider T (Oct 26, 2010)

^Despite the similarities between the relationship of Aang and Zuko, there was a little Azula and Zuko relationship thrown in there.  Jealousy, loyalty to the world rather the nation, feeling of inadequacy; like half of the whole nine yards.  



ReikaiDemon said:


> He'l be taming that shrew rite



More like pitching woo to a screwball:ho


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 26, 2010)

Mider T said:


> *The Sokka Azula thing probably came from the fact that they're the same age* and he's the only one of the Gaang that Azula's ever addressed by name.  If she wasn't batshit their personalities might mesh as well.



I'm pretty sure it simply comes from people wanting to ship the two "hot" characters together.


----------



## Burke (Oct 26, 2010)

Koi said:


> Zhao+Cake is really the only true OTP of the series.  All others pale in comparison.



Zhao + Fish
Its canon though.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 26, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I'm pretty sure it simply comes from people wanting to ship the two "hot" characters together.



That, and the Jackie Diaz effect.


----------



## Burke (Oct 26, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> That, and the Jackie Diaz effect.



no new name, NO NEW NAME!


----------



## Mider T (Oct 27, 2010)

I just realized I semi-spoiled something for you with that last comment so I won't respond to you again until you get a little further into the series


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How does he do that? I have noticed that myself, but I find it to be difficult to imagine that with a personality like his (i.e., being sarcastic and a source of comic relief), he would be as successful as he is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wood is unbendable.

Also, you're gross


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 27, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Wood is unbendable.
> 
> Also, you're gross



Your first sentences makes sense, except that wood is flammable, and thus  not suitable for containing fire-benders.

What do you mean by your second sentence? And is that all you have to say to my extensive post: a mere two sentences?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Your first sentences makes sense, except that wood is flammable, and thus  not suitable for containing fire-benders.
> 
> What do you mean by your second sentence? And is that all you have to say to my extensive post: a mere two sentences?


The wood cages were never meant to contain Firebenders, so you're missing the big point.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 27, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> The wood cages were never meant to contain Firebenders, so you're missing the big point.



Yes, that makes sense to me, but what about your second sentence? Why do you say that I am "gross?"


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On the subject of Azula, I have been wondering something: is she truly and completely evil, or is she simply the way she is because of something that may have occurred in her past? It certainly seems to me that she is simply evil and does not have any tragic background to explain her personality, but her interactions with her friends and brother during _The Beach_ were very uncharacteristic for her, so I could not help but wonder if she was displaying genuine remorse during that episode. What does everyone else say? Will that question of mine be answered close to the end of the series?



There's one scene in the beach that I absolutely love. This one;



It's short and the feeling of it is over pretty quick, but for just that brief moment, you get the idea that Azula was honestly concerned about him. As far as her mother, not that I want to give away too much, but yeah, that thing she said about her mother is what Azula actually believes, and it's something that bothers her much more than she lets on. 

As for a specific defining moment of tragedy, no, I can't say she has anything like that, _but_ being raised by a sociopath who's "love" (not something I'm sure Ozai's even capable of) were entirely dependent on your performance, well... that can't be good for the psyche.

Though it's hard to talk about this too much without getting into spoiler territory, so we should probably pick this conversation up again after you watch the finale. 



Mordin Solus said:


> NO.  Why is it that, in both fiction and history, whenever readers come across a strong friendship between two males their reaction is "OMG they must be GAY?"  Guys can have strong friendships without sexual attraction, you know.  It likely crossed the writers' minds at some point that "This could be taken an odd way...", but I highly doubt it was intended that way.



Its not just males. The entire TyZula ship seems to be based around this too, as there's absolutely no indication of it in the show. At all!

Yet, the fact that the writers never specifically said that they weren't lesbian lovers must mean (in a shippers mind) that it's totally cannon!



DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that makes sense to me, but what about your second sentence? Why do you say that I am "gross?"



Reikai and I watched that video you made. Look, I know money can be hard to come by right now, but you didn't need to go and do _that!_ You should be ashamed of youself! 

I'll admit, impressive though. I didn't even think that was physically possible.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 27, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> There's one scene in the beach that I absolutely love. This one;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At their best, Azula and Zuko probably do care for each other. But their contrasting personalities and overall views on life drive them apart. There are very small hints in the series that they do love one another, but they just cannot co-exist for very long.

Well, there was a hint a while ago that maybe Ozai tried to be a good father and husband, but his overall lust for power was stronger.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 28, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Reikai and I watched that video you made. Look, I know money can be hard to come by right now, but you didn't need to go and do _that!_ You should be ashamed of youself!
> 
> I'll admit, impressive though. I didn't even think that was physically possible.



I did not make any video of any type; you must be making a mistake.


----------



## Klue (Oct 28, 2010)

Any new information regarding the second series? It's been awhile, hasn't it?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 28, 2010)

I don't think we'll really see anything until mid to late 2011. When the news broke that there _would_ be a new series, everything was still in the preliminary planning stages, and for the most part, still it. I don't think they've even started working on the actual episodes yet.

I expect we'll be getting a steady but slow trickle of news (as we have been), but don't expect anything significant (such as a trailer or anything) for a while yet. I would guess that the show is still about a year off as is.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 28, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Reikai and I watched that video you made. Look, I know money can be hard to come by right now, but you didn't need to go and do _that!_ You should be ashamed of youself!
> 
> I'll admit, impressive though. I didn't even think that was physically possible.



I thought we were ignoring that, since he's been working so arduously to comment upon every episode. I know I'm not judging him anymore for it. He's clearly moved on; let go of the past, stab. Seriously.




DemonDragonJ said:


> I see that Combustion Man was not defeated in this episode, which make him more of a recurring villain than a one-shot villain or "villain of the week," and I also was wondering how he got his name. "Combustion Man" does seem to be the type of name that Sokka would give to a person who can "make things explode with his mind," as he himself said.



Sokka did exactly that in that very episode.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 28, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I don't think we'll really see anything until mid to late 2011. When the news broke that there _would_ be a new series, everything was still in the preliminary planning stages, and for the most part, still it. I don't think they've even started working on the actual episodes yet.




Everything is out of the planning stages and in production right now. Episodes have already been written and recorded which means that some of them are being animated in Korea right now. Several episodes should be fully done by this time next year.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 28, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I thought we were ignoring that, since he's been working so arduously to comment upon every episode. I know I'm not judging him anymore for it. He's clearly moved on; let go of the past, stab. Seriously.



_*What are you talking about?!*_ What did I do that everyone has decided to ignore?



H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Sokka did exactly that in that very episode.



What are you taking about? What did Sokka do in that episode? Are you referring to how Sokka is the one who named the assassin "Combustion Man?" If so, I know that, and that is why I said "that does sound like the type of name that Sokka would give to someone" in my previous post.

And on the subject  of Sokka, it seems to me that any hopes that I have of him becoming more badass and a better fighter are not likely to be fulfilled. I am already eight episodes into the final season of the series, so there is very little time for him to become more skilled and badass in a believable manner. I just hope that he has at least one proper and epic fight before the end of the series, as he has not had one at all thus far.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 28, 2010)

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I found the scene where Katara and Toph were fighting in the mud to be very entertaining; it is very unfortunate that that scene was very short.

I just finished watching _The Puppetmaster,_ and I see that this is the infamous "bloodbending episode" that everyone has been mentioning. I liked the idea of being able to manipulate the water within a person's body, and the fact that such an ability could be used only during a full moon was an excellent way to balance it. I also liked the ending, where Katara, despite her reluctance to employ such a skill, used it to stop Hama from killing Aang and Sokka; Hama's words at the end were particularly satisfying to me.

I do feel sympathy for Hama, but she was being zealous and vengeful, just as Jet was; not everyone in the Fire Nation is evil, and it is unfortunate that there are many people who do not realize that.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 28, 2010)

Of all the times to bring up sexual connotations, the mudfight would be it


----------



## Noah (Oct 28, 2010)

I've come to a very important decision!

DDJ's new name is Literal Jim. Please apply this to your posts ASAP.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 28, 2010)

Just started watching this, at the fortuneteller episode now. Love Sokka.

"Well, can your _science_ explain why it rains?"
"YES, YES, IT CAN!"


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 28, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Of all the times to bring up sexual connotations, the mudfight would be it



Actually, I did not perceive any, or much, sexual context in the mud-fighting scene, because the idea of engaging in sexual activity in mud is not at all appealing to me.



Noah said:


> I've come to a very important decision!
> 
> DDJ's new name is Literal Jim. Please apply this to your posts ASAP.



What does that mean? And I shall not use the name "Literal Jim" in my posts.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Just started watching this, at the fortuneteller episode now. Love Sokka.
> 
> "Well, can your _science_ explain why it rains?"
> "YES, YES, IT CAN!"



I often find myself agreeing with Sokka on many subjects; he seems to focus on rational and logical explanations, or at least does so more often than nearly any other character, so I often find myself sympathizing with him.

I was rather disappointed that in _The Puppetmaster,_ no actual blood was shown, despite the prevalence of blood-bending in the episode. I was hoping that Hama would cause blood to burst from a person's blood vessels and use the blood as a liquid blade while the person slowly died, but I suppose that such content would not be allowed in a TV-Y7-rated series.

And how fitting it is that I would watch this episode only several days before Halloween this year, when this episode was originally a Halloween special for the series in the year that it premiered. My timing was excellent.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 28, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What are you taking about? What did Sokka do in that episode? Are you referring to how Sokka is the one who named the assassin "Combustion Man?" If so, I know that, and that is why I said "that does sound like the type of name that Sokka would give to someone" in my previous post.



I'm talking about this:




DemonDragonJ said:


> I see that Combustion Man was not defeated in this episode, which make him more of a recurring villain than a one-shot villain or "villain of the week," *and I also was wondering how he got his name*. "Combustion Man" does seem to be the type of name that Sokka would give to a person who can "make things explode with his mind," as he himself said.



And there you have it: Sokka gave him his name. If you knew that, than you worded that paragraph dreadfully.


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## Burke (Oct 28, 2010)

Hey Guess what Jove.
Change your name back.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 28, 2010)

It's my spooky Halloween name.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 28, 2010)

Jove's presence drives everyone insane.

I could think of many reasons how bloodbending is bad for a person's health, regardless of surviving it.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 28, 2010)

"I laugh at gravity all the time. Ha ha ha...gravity"

Lulzy aang.

Love this show. Im sure it gets even better in the second and third acts.


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## Burke (Oct 28, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> It's my spooky Halloween name.



You and your mod abilities.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 28, 2010)

In the case that I was not sufficiently clear in one of my earlier posts, I was implying that Katara could have used her own urine as a source of water for her water-bending to slash through the bars, which, in that situation, would have been a perfectly logical course of action. However, am I correct in presuming that such a course of action would not be allowed on a TV-Y7-rated series, despite it being a perfectly logical course of action?



H.P. Jovecraft said:


> It's my spooky Halloween name.



I like it; I believe that it is very awesome, and I shall actually give you +rep for it.


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## Gunners (Oct 28, 2010)

> Just started watching this, at the fortuneteller episode now. Love Sokka.
> 
> "Well, can your science explain why it rains?"
> "YES, YES, IT CAN!"


I remember laughing and feeling bad for him.


> "I laugh at gravity all the time. Ha ha ha...gravity"
> 
> Lulzy aang.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 28, 2010)

Gunners said:


> I remember laughing and feeling bad for him.


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## Superstarseven (Oct 28, 2010)

Koizilla "anti-climactic"? I've never seen that assessment of the season 1 finale before.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 28, 2010)

Must be M. Night.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 28, 2010)

I mean don't get me wrong, I loved it, I just didn't like how Avatar Aang singlehandedly ended the battle.

The return of the moon, and Yuei's sacrifice (while obviously very important) didn't alter the tide of the battle at all. I would have liked to have seen the Waterbenders have a part in winning the battle. Perhaps by having avatar aang go straight for the ships while the benders dealt with the infantry?


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## Wan (Oct 29, 2010)

Well, it was kind of integral to keeping the whole balance of the world, not just winning the battle...


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 29, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Well, it was kind of integral to keeping the whole balance of the world, not just winning the battle...



Yea, I knew that. Hence the "while obviously very important" line. Guess I should have been more clear.

Still, the return of the moon could have been a great comeback scene for the waterbenders, and it's something I would have liked to see. Mooned up Waterbenders repelling the invading forces while Waterzilla Aang takes down the fleet.


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## Ryth76 (Oct 29, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Actually, I did not perceive any, or much, sexual context in the mud-fighting scene, because the idea of engaging in sexual activity in mud is not at all appealing to me.



You've never heard of girls mud wrestling? That is _very _much steeped in sexual context.  It doesn't have anything to do with sexual activity in mud.  It literally is just about girls mud wrestling.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 29, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> You've never heard of girls mud wrestling? That is _very _much steeped in sexual context.  It doesn't have anything to do with sexual activity in mud.  It literally is just about girls mud wrestling.


  I believe that DDJ's powers is inversely proportional to the actual sexual intent the creators put into a scene. Whereas an innocent scene of Momo eating peaches could be construed as cunnilingus, while a blatantly sexy scene like Zuko's banana dance completely falls off the radar


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## ღMomoღ (Oct 29, 2010)

^oh looool 
ı really love this series


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 29, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> You've never heard of girls mud wrestling? That is _very _much steeped in sexual context. It doesn't have anything to do with sexual activity in mud. It literally is just about girls mud wrestling.



I do find appeal in two or more women wrestling, but not in mud; I find mud to be dirty and gross, and that reduces any appeal from the activity.

Why is it that Roku is the Avatar who appears in the opening sequence? What is special about him?

How did Sozin know that the next Avatar would be born as an airbender? Did he simply guess, or did he somehow possess special knowledge?

When Sokka gave a piece of the meteorite to Toph,he referred to it as "space earth," to which Katara responded, "if it is from space, it is not from earth," but in this world, outer space travel does not exist, so how would the characters have even the _concept_ of outer space?

Would it have been an interesting plot twist for the heroes to discover another airbender halfway through the series, who had been in hiding because of the Fire Nation's persecution of airbenders? I have heard people speak of how the airbenders need to be "repopulated," so a female airbender appearing in the series would have been very suitable for that, in my opinion (anyone here who has seen _The Dark Crystal_ will understand what I am saying).


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## Level7N00b (Oct 29, 2010)

It seems that when a new Avatar needs assistance from another Avatar, it is usually the one before them that ends them a hand, as seen when Aang usually goes to Roku before anyone else.

Its not a huge secret about the Avatar Cycle, so Sozin likely knew about it from schooling or something of the like. 

No. Any other Airbender besides Aang and Appa would completely ruin the entire show.  It'd be cliche, and it'd also defeat the purpose of the series being called the _Last _Airbender.


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## Mider T (Oct 29, 2010)

It's probably for the best.  Avatars usually have aspects in their personalities that their previous incarnation lacked.  Roku had mercy that Kyoshi didn't, Kyoshi had the drive that Kuruk didn't, Kuruk had...well..fun that Yangchen didn't.


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## The Boss (Oct 29, 2010)

I final saw that rock part... I have never lol'd so hard in my life. Thank you M.Knight. Thank you.


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## Klue (Oct 29, 2010)

Patiently waiting for a new Avatar series to arrive, is probably one of the hardest things I have ever done.

It's been far too long.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 29, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Its not a huge secret about the Avatar Cycle, so Sozin likely knew about it from schooling or something of the like.



I do not like the idea of there being a cycle of nations in which the Avatar appears, for that is both predictable, as was clearly seen when Sozin eliminated the Airbenders, and also unfair, for why should only the four great nations be places where an Avatar can be born? What if a new nation rose to power? Would that nation be included into the Avatar cycle? I believe that if the Avatar was born randomly into any location in the world at all, that would be more sensible and fair to all nations.



Level7N00b said:


> No. Any other Airbender besides Aang and Appa would completely ruin the entire show.  It'd be cliche, and it'd also defeat the purpose of the series being called the _Last _Airbender.



The idea of the main hero being the "last of their kind" is not at all a new idea; it has been used countless times in many fictional series across the world, so it is just as great a _cliche_ as the idea of another airbender appearing in this series. I do not believe that such an idea would have ruined the series, if the other airbender also believed themselves to the last of their kind; in _The Dark Crystal,_ Jen and Kira each believed themselves to be the last living gelfing, yet when the encountered each other, they decided to travel together, because that would beneficial for both of them, and they eventually fell in love with each other. By that same logic, I believe that a female airbender would have been the best possible romantic match for Aang (Katara could still be the lead female character), because the two of them would have had much in common.


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## Mider T (Oct 29, 2010)

The idea of "what-if the cultures disappear or integrate?" should be an interesting one in LoK.


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## The Potential (Oct 29, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How does he do that? I have noticed that myself, but I find it to be difficult to imagine that with a personality like his (i.e., being sarcastic and a source of comic relief), he would be as successful as he is.



My personality is alot like Sokka's and I have no problem with the ladies. It's not that hard to believe.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 29, 2010)

Two airbenders do not always make airbender babies, this isn't like Noah's ark.

And that would be moot anyways, as the offspring of Aang would have to marry themselves off to people of other cultures anyways, unless if you're suggesting i*c*st. If that's the case, then the air nomads are more doomed than ever.

Thirdly, it is not blood that makes the Air Nomads, it is culture. Aang doesn't even have to HAVE KIDS HIMSELF to revive the Air Nomads.

And it's not a cycle of nations, it's a cycle of benders. Even if another nation pooped itself out from the depths of the Avaearth itself, the cycle is still dependent on the bender, not nation. Nations were born out of benders of like elements coming together, not the other way around. By the law of averages, it's just a lot more likely for a Firebender avatar to be born in the firenation, because that's where most of the firebenders in the world live!

Also, it is still a complex set of factors how a bender is born, it is the sum of potential, hard work, upbringing, and linage that determines a bender. And those factors are quite flexible.

In fact, it's quite possible that a great deal of people posses the means to be an airbender in the avatar world But because there is no guidance for these individuals to culture their abilities, airbending remains, for the most part, a nearly dead art.

And it's hardly unfair for every nation to know the cycle, it's impossible for them to not know anyways. They ALL know, how would that be unfair? Neither of them gain the advantage of intel over the next Avatar cycle, and the Avatar is damn hard to kill. Plus if one nation decides on a whim, to slaughter a whole nation to break the Avatar chain, they'd quickly be met with the opposition of the rest of the world. Where have we seen this before? I'm scratching my head. OH YEAH, THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE SHOW. It's also effin' insane for anyone to think of doing such a thing, they'd be screwing themselves, and destroy the world.


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## Nodonn (Oct 29, 2010)

> I do not like the idea of there being a cycle of nations in which the Avatar appears, for that is both predictable, as was clearly seen when Sozin eliminated the Airbenders, and also unfair, for why should only the four great nations be places where an Avatar can be born? What if a new nation rose to power? Would that nation be included into the Avatar cycle? I believe that if the Avatar was born randomly into any location in the world at all, that would be more sensible and fair to all nations.



So what if a new nation appears? An avatar that would be born in the water tribes would be born in a place where waterbenders live. Unless a new nation is born where people bend the element of Luxembourg that's not going to be much of a problem.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 29, 2010)

Even if some new Nation comes up, it will make no difference. The Avatars are born into not only the next Nation, but the Nation that corresponds to the element. There are four elements in Avatar, so there are only Four Nations that are of any consequence. And randomizing it throws off the supposed balance that is supposedly so important in the series. These things have to follow an order.

So unless Lightbenders and Shadowbenders, as retarded as that sounds, somehow spring up out of nowhere, then that idea is not possible.

_Besides_, going by the Avatar's map, there is no place for even a decent sized nation to appear. The Earth Kingdom is the size of a *continent*, and take up most of the world. The Fire Nation is a series of archipelago that covers the western half of the world. The Water Tribes cover the north and south poles. And there is an Air Temple at each corner of the globe. Not much room for another entire nation.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 29, 2010)

I think most of this series just goes over DDJ's head


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## Noah (Oct 29, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I think anything that isn't teen sex analogies just goes over Literal Jim's head



Fixed.


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## The Potential (Oct 29, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I think most of this series just goes over DDJ's head



I think he/she is looking way to far into it. Rather then just enjoying the series like we do with a open mind.

I swear some of his/her post pinch my nerves....


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## The Potential (Oct 29, 2010)

Whoa buddy take it easy... Even though *SOME* of your post pinch my nerves, it doesn't take away from the fact that I enjoy reading them. I just wonder why you think so much into a well, kids series.

No reason to Neg me..


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 29, 2010)

It wouldn't matter anyways if it WERE random, each nation's Avatar temple calls out to the world that the Avatar is born. And the Avatar is told of their status traditionally at sixteen. 

Also, it's about BALANCE, the Avatar cycle matches the cycle of our seasons, summer, spring, fall and winter. It is a thing of nature, as constant as the seasons.

And what would happen if the Avatar is born as a bender of one element more than once in a row?

The Avatar line would be DEAD.

If it were random, and if all the benders of one element were wiped out, then the Avatar is born into the same element; the avatar line would fail because there would be no other bender of that element to be born into.

At least with Aang, they have more than a century or three for a new Airbender Avatar to be born.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 29, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Whoa buddy take it easy... Even though *SOME* of your post pinch my nerves, it doesn't take away from the fact that I enjoy reading them. I just wonder why you think so much into a well, kids series.
> 
> No reason to Neg me..



Unfortunately, I cannot undo the reputation that I have given, so I shall see if I can give you +rep in the near future to balance it.

And the reason that I am reading deeply into this series is that I read deeply into every series that I follow, so my doing so is nothing unusual for me.

Some time ago, a user mentioned that after the traveling singers, who were modeled after real-world hippies, and the swamp tribe members, who were modeled after real-world citizens of the southern United States, there would be a third group of people in the series who were modeled after actual people. However, I do not recall seeing any such group, so have they not appeared yet at where I am in the series?


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## The Potential (Oct 29, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot undo the reputation that I have given, so I shall see if I can give you +rep in the near future to balance it.
> 
> And the reason that I am reading deeply into this series is that I read deeply into every series that I follow, so my doing so is nothing unusual for me.
> 
> Some time ago, a user mentioned that after the traveling singers, who were modeled after real-world hippies, and the swamp tribe members, who were modeled after real-world citizens of the southern United States, there would be a third group of people in the series who were modeled after actual people. However, I do not recall seeing any such group, so have they not appeared yet at where I am in the series?



It's cool bro, no hard feelings. As for your question. I'm not so sure. Even if I did know I couldn't tell you for that would be spoiler..

I know one thing, I can't wait for you to finish the series. For my spoiler warning was put up for your sake and I urge you not to click it..


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 29, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot undo the reputation that I have given, so I shall see if I can give you +rep in the near future to balance it.
> 
> And the reason that I am reading deeply into this series is that I read deeply into every series that I follow, so my doing so is nothing unusual for me.
> 
> Some time ago, a user mentioned that after the traveling singers, who were modeled after real-world hippies, and the swamp tribe members, who were modeled after real-world citizens of the southern United States, there would be a third group of people in the series who were modeled after actual people. However, I do not recall seeing any such group, so have they not appeared yet at where I am in the series?


Those were way back in like, Book One.

The Swampbenders also share similar cultural influences of Asian people in temperate jungle areas and pacific islands. But their vernacular and accent is certainly modeled after the southern drawl and creole accents.

The wandering musicians are also a neat blend of American culture and Asian culture as well, sharing some designs of Korean and Chinese clothing. The music as well is traditionally similar to Korean and Chinese music.

Fun fact, Derek Basco was the fat one, Moku, and is the brother of Dante Basco, the voice actor of Zuko. Later on, Derek would voice Zuko in one form.


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## DgM (Oct 29, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Also, *it is still a complex set of factors how a bender is born*, *it is the sum of potential, hard work, upbringing, and linage that determines a bender*. And those factors are quite flexible.
> .



Sorry i lol'ed.
I felt disappointed with the ending of Avatar, they could have at least written two endings, the PG ending were all Aang does is take away the fire lords fire bending, and then the 12+ where he beats the shit out of him and then take away his fire bending or something else like that.


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## Gunners (Oct 29, 2010)

> I do not like the idea of there being a cycle of nations in which the Avatar appears, for that is both predictable, as was clearly seen when Sozin eliminated the Airbenders, and also unfair, for why should only the four great nations be places where an Avatar can be born? What if a new nation rose to power? Would that nation be included into the Avatar cycle? I believe that if the Avatar was born randomly into any location in the world at all, that would be more sensible and fair to all nations.


Water ( Winter)->Earth (Spring)->Fire ( Summer)-> Air ( Autumn). 

The avatar shifting to the nation in that manner represents the balance of the four seasons. If the Avatar were to appear in some random nation ( though there are only 4), it would break the balance. 

A key feature of this show is maintaining a balance so you could say it would betray the series foundations if it did what you want. What you're complaining about is akin to asking why Summer doesn't come about twice a year, or why Spring doesn't swap places with winter.
__________


> I felt disappointed with the ending of Avatar, they could have at least written two endings, the PG ending were all Aang does is take away the fire lords fire bending, and then the 12+ where he beats the shit out of him and then take away his fire bending or something else like that.


Posts like this show an individuals immaturity, disappointed by the lack of over the top violence, _smh_.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 29, 2010)

DDJ don't take this the wrong way or anything, but a lot of the things you're nitpicking and complaining about seem like you're doing so simply for the sake of nitpicking and complaining.

Like randomizing the Avatar state, I really don't see what possible difference that could make, or why the rules of the cycle established in the show would even seem 'unfair'?

And earlier when you seemed upset that there wasn't other types of magical fantasy stuff in Avatar other than bending, and you even used the defense of something along the lines of "well, other fantasy worlds have magic and stuff, why does this one just have bending."  Well A) Because this isn't those worlds, it's Avatar. It has the rules it's creators set up for it. and B) That would be like complaining that their wasn't lightsabers in Lord of the Rings or getting upset that no one in the Harry Potter movies could shoot lasers out of their eyes, cause hey, they did it in X-Men!

I mean really, half the shit you complain about just seem completely arbitrary and silly. I just don't get it. What's next, you don't understand why Aangs arrow was made blue instead of green? Are you going to complain that Sokka's boomerang should have been called a "wakledeedoo" instead of "boomerang" because boomerang is an Australian wor. Would you like Zuko's scar to be on the right side of his face instead of the left because the voices in you're head told you it made more asia fantasy green pork blubber squirrel  fire fire brain hemorrhage!


In other words, please just sit back relax. Take a few breaths and enjoy the show. Keep up the episode reviews, I like them, just stop trying to over think every little detail so damn much!!!


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## Nizuma Eiji (Oct 29, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> In other words, please just sit back relax. Take a few breaths and enjoy the show. Keep up the episode reviews, I like them, just stop trying to over think every little detail so damn much!!!



I've felt this way forever!


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## The Potential (Oct 29, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> DDJ don't take this the wrong way or anything, but a lot of the things you're nitpicking and complaining about seem like you're doing so simply for the sake of nitpicking and complaining.
> 
> Like randomizing the Avatar state, I really don't see what possible difference that could make, or why the rules of the cycle established in the show would even seem 'unfair'?
> 
> ...



Wow this really sums up how I was feeling... Keep up the reviews DDJ.


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## Burke (Oct 29, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> DDJ don't take this the wrong way or anything, but a lot of the things you're nitpicking and complaining about seem like you're doing so simply for the sake of nitpicking and complaining.
> 
> Like randomizing the Avatar state, I really don't see what possible difference that could make, or why the rules of the cycle established in the show would even seem 'unfair'?
> 
> ...



And now a five paragraph essay as to why this offends him.
DDJ, its all yours.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 29, 2010)

DgM said:


> Sorry i lol'ed.
> I felt disappointed with the ending of Avatar, they could have at least written two endings, the PG ending were all Aang does is take away the fire lords fire bending, and then the 12+ where he beats the shit out of him and then take away his fire bending or something else like that.



Honestly, where do these fucking people come from? 

Is it not enough to accept the show for what it was? Was the final fight not intricately choreographed enough? I fundamentally do not understand this intense desire to dumb down the show.


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## Mider T (Oct 30, 2010)

I'm guessing those are the type Nick is currently catering to.


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## Castiel (Oct 30, 2010)

I know seriously it was a good final fight, its a kids show of course he wasn't going to kill anyone, and you know what, that's the kind of person Aang is and the writers made that point very fucking clear.  So it never felt like a cop-out to me, hell It would have been just plain weird for Aang to go "ok I give up, I'm going to kill him",


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 30, 2010)

Gojira said:


> I know seriously it was a good final fight, its a kids show of course he wasn't going to kill anyone, and you know what, that's the kind of person Aang is and the writers made that point very fucking clear.  So it never felt like a cop-out to me, hell It would have been just plain weird for Aang to go "ok I give up, I'm going to kill him",


indeed, I never understood why so many people want Aang to kill  something. Basically throwing away everything about him and all the events in  the series leading up to the end.

It's like wanting Batman to kill.

I think Aang wouldn't kill regardless of the rating of the show.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 30, 2010)

Yeah, I saw Aang's almost childish optimism was an important trait, he won by not chaning the kind of person he was.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 30, 2010)

In response to what many users here have said, I suppose that I am complaining excessively, and that I should stop doing so; I also admit that, after thoroughly considering the idea of the Avatar cycle, the manner in which it follows a pattern, and one that mirrors the cycle of the seasons, is actually very logical and sensible for the series. And I no longer am bothered by the lack of other supernatural powers in this series, for the universe functions quite well as it is. I shall make an effort to not complain so frequently from now on as I watch this series, and I hope that that decision shall please everyone else here.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 30, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I think Aang wouldn't kill regardless of the rating of the show.



You know, to that point I think Mike and Bryan kind of reveled in the Y-7 rating. Artistry tends to flourish best with structure and limits, and they thrived with balancing upon that boundary. And I think it forced them to keep their concepts and themes simpler, and at the same time led them to present them more subtly.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 30, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> You know, to that point I think Mike and Bryan kind of reveled in the Y-7 rating. Artistry tends to flourish best with structure and limits, and they thrived with balancing upon that boundary. And I think it forced them to keep their concepts and themes simpler, and at the same time led them to present them more subtly.


That reminds me, how in the commentary for the brilliant Batman: The Animated Series, that Bruce Timm, Paul Dini and the rest were actually grateful sometimes for the really unforgiving standards the network had on their show. They were especially proud in the Robin's Reckoning two-parter, where the standards imposed on the animators and writers kept making them revise the death scene of Dick Grayson's parents over and over, until they created a tasteful, yet extremely emotionally striking scene; accomplishing far more than their first attempt.


----------



## Nodonn (Oct 30, 2010)

The problem I have with the ending is that a lot of time was taken up by the turtlelion scenes.
Considering the fact that the only change to Aang after his internal journey is that he can energybend now, we might as well have had a magic turtleliondragonfly come up at the house to teach him that.
Would've opened up a lot of time for more awesomeness.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 30, 2010)

The turtlelion scenes were Aang's internal struggle. They are the most important in the entire first half of the finale.


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## Nodonn (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't care much for internal struggles that wouldn't be missed if cut out from the plot. If the finale had aired without that whole internal struggle you wouldn't have noticed. Aang went in not wanting to kill Ozai knowing that everyone wanted him to, and he came out not wanting to kill Ozai knowing that everyone wanted him to.


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## Ms. Jove (Oct 30, 2010)

The show would have been empty without it, and Aang's dilemma would have been much more cursory.


----------



## ElementX (Oct 30, 2010)

I think that Aang's whole dilemma about having to kill Ozai was kind of an excuse on the creator's part to avoid having to kill off any characters (or to have any of the heroes kill). The reason I say this is because the concern was not voiced by Aang anywhere before in the series, even in Nightmares and Daydreams when he was preparing to battle Ozai. Something tells me Nick got on them after Jet's death. 

That said, I think they handled it very well. His internal struggle was very true to his character and it made the finale even more interesting. I just wish they had foreshadowed Aang's conflict before, and maybe thrown a hint at the existence of Spiritbending.


----------



## Ryth76 (Oct 30, 2010)

> but in this world, outer space travel does not exist, so how would the characters have even the _concept_ of outer space?


 Actually, we developed a concept of outer space _before _space travel.  Also, it's a fantasy with steampunk themes.


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## Nodonn (Oct 30, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> The show would have been empty without it, and Aang's dilemma would have been much more cursory.



As it stands the dilemma is utterly irrelevant anyway.
Aang doesn't have any tough moral dilemma to solve, he just gets a third option handed to him by the deus ex machina turtle.


----------



## hitokugutsu (Oct 30, 2010)

Gojira said:


> I know seriously it was a good final fight, its a kids show of course he wasn't going to kill anyone, and you know what, that's the kind of person Aang is and the writers made that point very fucking clear.  So it never felt like a cop-out to me, hell It would have been just plain weird for Aang to go "ok I give up, I'm going to kill him",



You can turn around any way you like but Aand vs Oozai sucked balls. The internal struggle Aang had was suddenly solved by the biggest deus ex machina in the form of a lion turtle 

Zuko vs Azula was a good fight. But once again there were factors that made no sense for Azula's character. Azula has alway been shown as cold and calculating, and suddenly by getting a higher position she gets psycho?? 

Dont get me wrong, I love the series but the finale was a huge dissapoitnment. Not to mention the lack of Iroh


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 30, 2010)

Are you kidding about Azula?

Her fall from grace into paranoia was one of the best I've seen in a long time--cartoon or not.  It wasn't "getting a higher position then OOPS BONKERS!"--it was a gradual decline hinted all the way back at Boiling Rock, right up until the finale. It was well written, subtle and integral to the story dynamics and the general quality of the series.  Don't give me this crap.


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## Burke (Oct 30, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> Actually, we developed a concept of outer space _before _space travel.  Also, it's a fantasy with steampunk themes.



That was a stupid question wasnt it. -_-

I mean, the Mayans predicted when the Sun would align with the center of the galaxy. (December 2012 )

So i mean it couldnt have been that hard for the people of avatar.


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## Superstarseven (Oct 30, 2010)

LionTurtle being a Deus Ex Machina, we're seriously going into that garbage again?
Dammit, would it have been more acceptable if Energybending was mentioned quickly in  a season 1 episode. Would that have shut people up?
Really gets the bloodboiling when people won't see it any other way 3 years later.


----------



## The Potential (Oct 30, 2010)

The Lionturtle and Energy Bending was actually forshadowed, in earlier episodes: The Swamp, The Library, The Guru and The Crossroads of Destiny. Actualy, the LionTurtle was forshadowed thru out the entire series. That thing poped up everywhere, if you actually noticed. So it's not so much of a "Deus Ex Machina"


----------



## Nodonn (Oct 30, 2010)

A magic turtle came out of nowhere and gave Aang a magic ability NEVER ever mentioned in the slightest to get out of a tough moral situation.

How is that _not_ a deus ex machina?



> The Lionturtle and Energy Bending was actually forshadowed, in earlier episodes: The Swamp, The Library, The Guru and The Crossroads of Destiny.



You need to refresh my memory because I remember nothing like energybending from those episodes.
Could you really after watching those episodes come to the logical conclusion that Aang should be able to grab somebody by the throat and take his bending away?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 30, 2010)

hitokugutsu said:


> You can turn around any way you like but Aand vs Oozai sucked balls. The internal struggle Aang had was suddenly solved by the biggest deus ex machina in the form of a lion turtle
> 
> Zuko vs Azula was a good fight. But once again there were factors that made no sense for Azula's character. Azula has alway been shown as cold and calculating, and suddenly by getting a higher position she gets psycho??
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I love the series but the finale was a huge dissapoitnment. Not to mention the lack of Iroh


Made enough sense for me, despite Azula's perceived strengths, she's a very emotionally fragile person. Plus, being the savvy person that she is, attaining such a high position makes you a prime target for usurpation.


N??ps said:


> That was a stupid question wasnt it. -_-
> 
> I mean, the Mayans predicted when the Sun would align with the center of the galaxy. (December 2012 )
> 
> So i mean it couldnt have been that hard for the people of avatar.


Heck, people long since devised that the earth is round, centuries before the space age.

And astronomy is a big thing in ancient asia


----------



## ElementX (Oct 30, 2010)

I know there was an image of the Lion Turtle in The Library. But where else was it?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 30, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Ryth76 said:


> Actually, we developed a concept of outer space _before _space travel.  Also, it's a fantasy with steampunk themes.



What I meant to ask was: how would the people of the _Avatar_ world know that beyond the world, there was nothingness, a black void, empty space? If they have never traveled that high, how could they know what was beyond the atmosphere?

I just finished watching _Day of the Black Sun,_ and what awesome episodes those were! They had so much action and drama, and great character interactions, as well, plus many great fight scenes.

First, I enjoyed those great fights scenes; everyone was very badass, especially Sokka; at last, this is what I have waited for nearly three seasons to see! I was very pleased to see him fighting in a completely serious manner, not becoming intimidated by his enemies, and actually fighting with great skill. I still am hoping that he will have a dramatic one-on-one fight with someone before the end of the series, as Aang is destined to fight Ozai and Zuko clearly will have a final fight against Azula.

Second, I liked how many characters from previous episodes appeared to assist with the invasion, which helped to show that this series has an excellent sense of continuity, which some western animated series lack. That gave the entire invasion a greater sense of depth and emotion, and also was a good moment of nostalgia for any people who may have liked those characters.

Third, the strategy and vehicles were very impressive, as was the fact that Sokka had masterminded nearly all of it. He may not be as skilled a combatant as are his friends, but he is definitely one of the most intelligent characters in this series.

Fourth, I liked how Azula had prepared for the invasion and was her usual confident self against the heroes; even without being able to firebend, she was able to fight them exceptionally well. So, that is where she addresses Sokka by his name? The manner in which she did it seemed to be perfectly in character for her, but I cannot imagine that being sufficient cause for people to believe that they could be a good couple (I support Sokka/Suki as a pairing, in the case that it is relevant and because I have not yet mentioned it in this thread). However, when Sokka charged Azula and slammed her against the wall, that was thus far the only time that any person other than Zuko has been in such close physical proximity to Azula, and if the situation were not so serious, I could _almost_ perceive a sexual subtext in the interaction between the two of them.

Fifth, I liked how Aang kissed Katara, and it was real this time. I was so very glad to see that, because he may not have survived, and he needed to make his feelings known prior to leaving. I see that no one else witnessed their interaction, but I now want to see how they shall react to such a turn of events.

Sixth, and most of all, I liked how Zuko finally confronted his father and rebuked him. That was my favorite scene of the entire episode, and one of my favorite scenes in the entire series. At last, Zuko told his father exactly what he (Zuko) thought about the Fire Nation, the Fire Nation's militarism, and their relationship to each other. I knew that Ozai would not at all be pleased by Zuko'd actions, but I was glad that Zuko has severed his ties with Ozai and no longer seeks to win his favor. I also was glad to see that Ozai can produce lightning, and even more pleased to see Zuko redirect it. I would like to have seen Zuko kill Ozai himself, while Ozai could not firebend, as Zuko deserves that privilege more than any other character in the series, but I suppose that such an action would have been too anti-climactic, and because Aang is the main protagonist of the series, he will be the one to fight the main antagonist. Did anyone here see similarities in Zuko's confrontation of Ozai to Luke Skywalker standing before Emperor Palpatine in _Star Wars, Episode VI?_ I thought that there were some, especially with how Ozai dismissed his guards before speaking to Zuko.

There were a few minor things that I did not like about this series, but they are few in number and minor in severity. Apart from Zuko not killing Ozai, I did not like that no one from the Northern Water Tribe participated in the invasion, but the presence of the Foggy Swamp Tribe balanced that. It was good to see female members of the Foggy Swamp Tribe, as only male members had been shown previously. I noticed that their movements when waterbending and Katara's movements seemed rather similar, which is unusual, because I though that they Foggy Swamp waterbending style was different from the style of the Northern and Southern Water Tribes (i.e., with stiff limbs and jerky movements rather than graceful, flowing movements). I saw that a member of the Foggy Swamp froze water into ice, despite there being no ice where they live, so is it safe to presume that either Katara or another waterbender from the poles taught that member how to freeze water?

Also, does anyone else here believe that the idea of lunar and solar eclipses rendering water- and fire-benders powerless is a rather cheap _deus ex machina_ (or _diabolus ex machina,_ depending upon which faction you support)? It worked for the plot, but if the ability to bend an element is derived from one's own internal _ki,_ which is generated by their own body, how could the environment affect that? I can understand the environment having some effect upon bending, for the environment does affect living beings in actuality, but to completely disable one's ability to bend does seem very extreme and difficult to believe to me.

Ultimately, I enjoyed these two episodes very much, and hope the the remaining episodes are at least as good as these were.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 30, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> A magic turtle came out of nowhere and gave Aang a magic ability NEVER ever mentioned in the slightest to get out of a tough moral situation.
> 
> How is that _not_ a deus ex machina?
> 
> ...




I don't know, does it even matter? It was well conceived, adroitly presented, made sense within the plot of the finale, and aligned with the philosophy of the show. So they held one trick for the end. Oy vey.


----------



## Nodonn (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't really think the moon/sun thing is a DEM per se, more of a silly jump in logic



> I don't know, does it even matter? It was well conceived, adroitly presented, made sense within the plot of the finale, and aligned with the philosophy of the show. So they held one trick for the end. Oy vey.



And it made Aang's personal struggle utterly irrelevant.
That's the beef I have with it.

I honestly think Aang got kind of shafted in general in the finale. His hard work mastering the elements didn't really pay off. He just defeated Ozai by 1) getting poked with a rock in the back and 2) using a skill the lionturtle thought him in a few seconds.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 30, 2010)

Those are two different things.

The poke in the back, that certainly could be a deus ex machina. Even now, it doesn't make much sense.

Energybending, however, did not belittle Aang's struggle, it validated it. It was an organic conclusion, only achieved through Aang's rumination.


----------



## The Potential (Oct 30, 2010)

Damn! My computer just went ape shit and shut me out. Here are some images of Lionturtles:

Here we have one in the series pilot:

And here in the Ep The Library:


Wish I could find more images but you can see Lionturltes thru out the series in there architecture. You just have to pay attention. Also, Aang runs into a Lionturtle statue in the shows opening.

As for the EnergyBending. Aang uses a form of it to find Appa in The Swamp, and The Guru uses it on, Appa to help him find, Aang.[ironic] Granted it wasn't on the level Aang used it on Ozai but it wasn't unheard of.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 30, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I mean, the Mayans predicted when the Sun would align with the center of the galaxy. (December 2012 )



Sorry but have to point this out.  That's not what they predicted nor is that correct.


----------



## Mαri (Oct 30, 2010)

ElementX said:


> I think that Aang's whole dilemma about having to kill Ozai was kind of an *excuse* on the creator's part to avoid having to kill off any characters (or to have any of the heroes kill). The reason I say this is because the concern was not voiced by Aang anywhere before in the series, even in Nightmares and Daydreams when he was preparing to battle Ozai. Something tells me Nick got on them after Jet's death.



It wasn't an excuse. It's in his character that he didn't want to kill Ozai. Aang is a 12 year old monk. The mere thought of killing someone at his age not only frightens him but, even worse, his friends think he should, too. It's not in his moral to kill people, whether that being right or wrong, and it shows kids (the targeted audience, anyway) that killing isn't the right answer.

If Aang had killed Ozai at the end, he would've abandoned all morals he once had. There would have been a larger outrage toward that type of ending, not only because he contradicted himself in the end, but because some type of parents, somewhere, would inevitably complain about it, and the last thing the writing staff wants is concerned parents complaining about their content, as Nickelodeon would have to drop their show altogether (If a large enough complaint ensued).

EDIT: Also, I read here on wiki, that 


> Bryan and Mike explain in the commentary for "The Ember Island Players" that Nickelodeon  was against showing kids being fatally wounded or outright killed, especially by a violent attack. It also couldn't be revealed during the rest of the story, so Toph sensing that Jet was lying (that he'd be okay) was how they chose to confirm it for the viewers. Also, in the Avatar Extras for "The Ember Island Players", a commentary bubble says "For the record: Jet is dead".





ElementX said:


> That said, I think they handled it very well. His internal struggle was very true to his character and it made the finale even more interesting. I just wish they had foreshadowed Aang's conflict before, and maybe thrown a hint at the existence of Spiritbending.



That's true, if they had foreshadowed the existence of Spiritbending it was too subtle for most people to pick up, unless they were purposely searching for it.

I personally liked the finale. Azulas downfall being one of my favorites of the darker themes, especially for a kids show. Since Azula had controlled people like Mai and Tai Lee with fear, they ended up betraying her, staining her mind that whoever got close to her would inevitably betray her. Also since Azula has always controlled people with fear, she predicted everyone else would end up betraying her like Mai and Tai Lee. Not to mention, countless times in history that dictators or "leaders" being a target of assassination. With that in mind, it makes sense as to why Azula went psycho in the end of the show. It was all a perfect blend of character development and logic, and that's one aspect to the show that I admire the most.

The writers obviously planned the entire thing out almost to perfection (one being the flawed foreshadowing or mention of spirit bending) and kept their composure throughout the execution. Not one episode was a waste that I can think of off the top of my head. Almost every character had a round and likable personality about them and always had a reason for what they did. 

A great series in short, that may have a childish character, but a deep and adult theme that could appeal to all ages.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 30, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't get it, where did you get the idea that people in Avatar know what space is?

And Zuko killing Ozai would jest be a dirty internal affair of a corrupt family. It would just perpetuate the long history of bloody murder of the firenation. It would be nothing less than a son killing his father to take the throne, and would spoil Zuko's character by making him commit such an inconceivably dirty act.

They can still firebend, just nothing above a small ember or a flaccid puff of smoke. It's sort of a spiritual thing rather than something scientific. It's like the taijitu or ying-yang as you english speaking people call it, when yang is weak, ying is strong. Firebending uses yang principles and elements, a solar eclipse is seen as when yang is at it's weakest. Bending arts are as internal as they are environmental.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 30, 2010)

It's kinda funny how many roles the dude who voiced Robin in TT has.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 30, 2010)

Indeed, he's been doing for at least 20 years now as well.  Hell he was the Jetix announcer at one point.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 30, 2010)

Yea, true.

Its just really funny seeing him as Robin and then seeing him as a scraggly beach bum hitting on Ty Lee.

And next time I beat somebody at volleyball...or anything for that matter.

"Yes! We have defeated you for all time! You will never rise from the ashes of your shame and humiliation!""


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## The Potential (Oct 30, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, true.
> 
> Its just really funny seeing him as Robin and then seeing him as a scraggly beach bum hitting on Ty Lee.
> 
> ...



He also plays Bucky in that new Avengers series..


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 30, 2010)

Watching Day of Black Sun now. Fuck yea Zuko.

"Your uncle has gotten to you hasn't he?"
"Yes...he has  "

EDIT: Lightning redirection FTW!


----------



## Mider T (Oct 30, 2010)

"Perhaps he can teach you the ways of tea and failure!"

Ozai's highest point in the series, right there.


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## NeoKurama (Oct 30, 2010)

I need to get some episodes on dvd.


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## Level7N00b (Oct 30, 2010)

It seems to me Ozai was very sure he would not have been able to defeat Zuko, even though he did not have his bending, and Zuko only had his swords. I like how that seemed to insinuate that Zuko would have made Ozai into confetti if he decided to go ahead with that fight.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 30, 2010)

Mider T said:


> "Perhaps he can teach you the ways of tea and failure!"
> 
> Ozai's highest point in the series, right there.



Admittedly, I couldn't help but think. "Tea, Failure, and LIGHTNING REDIRECTION, BITCH!"


----------



## Time Expired (Oct 30, 2010)

Caught part of _Siege of the North_ on tv as I fell asleep.  Koh was an interesting kind of fellow wasn't he...which is to say creepy.


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## The Potential (Oct 30, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Caught part of _Siege of the North_ on tv as I fell asleep.  Koh was an interesting kind of fellow wasn't he...which is to say creepy.



Koh is awesome. I couldn't keep a straight face infront of that monster if I tried. I'd be shittin bricks.


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## Time Expired (Oct 30, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Koh is awesome. I couldn't keep a straight face infront of that monster if I tried. I'd be shittin bricks.



 me too.  I think I'd either be sheting em or trying to screw with him  and not be able to stop laughing when he turned around to catch me.


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## The Potential (Oct 30, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> me too.  I think I'd either be sheting em or trying to screw with him  and not be able to stop laughing when he turned around to catch me.



And this is how Koh gets a new face.


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## Burke (Oct 31, 2010)

Im loving the new traffic.
Im finally understanding how epic ATLA _still_ is.

If only the show had 4000 episodes, then it would join one piece and bleach as a sub forum


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## Ryth76 (Oct 31, 2010)

> What I meant to ask was: how would the people of the _Avatar_ world know that beyond the world, there was nothingness, a black void, empty space? If they have never traveled that high, how could they know what was beyond the atmosphere?



The void empty space was known about long before anyone traveled that high.  Much of what we know about space was discovered by observation, reasoning, and mathematics, not direct interaction.  Even if they didn't mean the empty space, space is still what we call what's out there, so it probably has little to do with them knowing how void outer space is and more to do with using a term kids would know and understand.


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## The Potential (Oct 31, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Im loving the new traffic.
> Im finally understanding how epic ATLA _still_ is.
> 
> If only the show had 4000 episodes, then it would join one piece and bleach as a sub forum



ATLA is and will always be epic! It doesn't help that Korra is coming out, so we still have years left of traffic to come.

All Hail Avatar!!!


----------



## Shade (Oct 31, 2010)

I don't think it a difficult feat at all with this level of traffic to reach 20 000 posts before we get some actual Korra info.

Actually, we can probably even do it by the end of the year at this rate.


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## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

Ryth76 said:


> The void empty space was known about long before anyone traveled that high.  Much of what we know about space was discovered by observation, reasoning, and mathematics, not direct interaction.  Even if they didn't mean the empty space, space is still what we call what's out there, so it probably has little to do with them knowing how void outer space is and more to do with using a term kids would know and understand.


I'm surprised DDJ didn't go on a tirade about calling it the Heaven Sword or something in line with the show's cultural influences.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 31, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I'm surprised DDJ didn't go on a tirade about calling it the Heaven Sword or something in line with the show's cultural influences.



That name would have made more sense, to me, but I decided that I do not need to complain about _everything_ in this series, and I do not like that you expected me to "go on a tirade" about it.

Two other things that I forgot to mention about _The Day of Black Sun_ were first, that I did not like how Aang shaved his head again; I know that a shaved head is his trademark appearance, but I was hoping that he would grow his hair long and flowing, for the purposes of having a different hairstyle. Second, I liked Ozai's revelation about Ursa and the night that she disappeared; he was not explicit, but Ozai implied that Ursa killed Azulon so that Ozai could become the next Fire Lord. In Ursa's only appearance, she did not seem to me to be the type of person who would kill another, but if she sought to protect her son, I can imagine her resorting to extreme measures; her comment about the mother duck protecting its young would also apply to her, as well.

Where were Mai and Ty Lee during the invasion? Their ability to fight without bending would surely have been a great asset to the Fire Nation forces with the eclipse suppressing all fire-bending.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 31, 2010)

Duck or bear, since both are pretty frightening to protect their kin.  I only put bear in there since Ursa is the latin term for it.

And while I can't speak for Ty Lee, Mai probably was in no mood to fight due to the letter Zuko gave her.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 31, 2010)

I personally think Ursa poisoned Azulon in his sleep. I did not for one minute buy that crap about him just dying, when people in Avatar live to be 100+ and still going strong. I didn't particularly dislike him as a character but it did give him a mysterious ending. Ozai said Ursa did "treasonous things" so I guess we can only speculate what it was.


----------



## The Potential (Oct 31, 2010)

It was Sexual Gestures and Poisoned tea!!! Iroh likes tea so I'm sure that came from somewhere, why not his own father. Ursa knew this would calm him down after he gave the command to kill her son. He was most likely hurting inside which made him vulnerable and susceptible to her sneaky ways. 


Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if deep down he wanted Ursa for himself.

So thats the story. Ursa comes in with her woman like charm, sits right down on Azulon's lap, plays with his ear and offers him a nice hot cup of tea. Next scene is her waking Zuko.


----------



## NeoKurama (Oct 31, 2010)

If I had to choose I would be an earth bender.


----------



## ElementX (Oct 31, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Where were Mai and Ty Lee during the invasion? Their ability to fight without bending would surely have been a great asset to the Fire Nation forces with the eclipse suppressing all fire-bending.



Wow I just noticed that. They definitely should have been with Azula. Why would she choose Dai Li Agents over them? 

And as for Mai being upset about the letter... she wouldn't have read the letter prior to the invasion, would she?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 31, 2010)

NeoKurama said:


> If I had to choose I would be an earth bender.



I would probably be a firebender, if I could chose an element, because I like how fire is very powerful and can burn nearly anything, if it sufficiently hot. When I was younger, I was very emotional and became angry frequently, so I feel an affinity for fire, and especially for Zuko, in whom I see similarities to my younger self (although Zuko is more extreme than I was).


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That name would have made more sense, to me, but I decided that I do not need to complain about _everything_ in this series, and I do not like that you expected me to "go on a tirade" about it.
> 
> Two other things that I forgot to mention about _The Day of Black Sun_ were first, that I did not like how Aang shaved his head again; I know that a shaved head is his trademark appearance, but I was hoping that he would grow his hair long and flowing, for the purposes of having a different hairstyle. Second, I liked Ozai's revelation about Ursa and the night that she disappeared; he was not explicit, but Ozai implied that Ursa killed Azulon so that Ozai could become the next Fire Lord. In Ursa's only appearance, she did not seem to me to be the type of person who would kill another, but if she sought to protect her son, I can imagine her resorting to extreme measures; her comment about the mother duck protecting its young would also apply to her, as well.
> 
> Where were Mai and Ty Lee during the invasion? Their ability to fight without bending would surely have been a great asset to the Fire Nation forces with the eclipse suppressing all fire-bending.



So you want Aang to be like every other generic pretty boy hero?

And it's not because of "trademark". It's his character, the greater part of the series was about him coming to grips with the tenuous ties he has to his dying culture. Also, it's how Aang sees himself, the hair is just a lie that Aang doesn't want to perpetuate.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 31, 2010)

I preferred Aang with hair, regardless.


----------



## hitokugutsu (Oct 31, 2010)

The writers already atmitted somewehere they had more plans with Zuko's mom but couldn't/didn't execute them.

Would explain the half-ass story when Azula's mom suddenly appeared in her visions


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 31, 2010)

Not really sure how Ursa appearing as a vision was a "half-ass story" but OK.


----------



## Level7N00b (Oct 31, 2010)

There were more than a few episodes they could have cut out to make room for Ursa's story. But yeah. they were on a time limit, from what I heard.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 31, 2010)

When Aang was dreaming about himself confronting Ozai, why would either he or Ozai care about whether or not they were wearing pants? In an actual life-or-death situation, one does not have time to worry about if they are fully-clothed or not.

After Aang awoke from his day dream of kissing Katara, Katara asked him about what he was dreaming, and he responded, "living underwater?" Was there any deep, hidden meaning to that response, or was it merely intended to be humorous?



ReikaiDemon said:


> So you want Aang to be like every other generic pretty boy hero?
> 
> And it's not because of "trademark". It's his character, the greater part of the series was about him coming to grips with the tenuous ties he has to his dying culture. Also, it's how Aang sees himself, the hair is just a lie that Aang doesn't want to perpetuate.



The second part of your response makes sense, but I do not see how Aang growing out his hair would have made him a "generic pretty-boy hero;" and not every hero in animation, either western or Japanese, is a "pretty boy"/_bishonen,_ only a certain number of them are.

And I, also, was very disappointed by the fact that Ursa had so little screentime in the story; network regulations and time constraints certainly are very annoying.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 31, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *When Aang was dreaming about himself confronting Ozai, why would either he or Ozai care about whether or not they were wearing pants? In an actual life-or-death situation, one does not have time to worry about if they are fully-clothed or not.
> 
> After Aang awoke from his day dream of kissing Katara, Katara asked him about what he was dreaming, and he responded, "living underwater?" Was there any deep, hidden meaning to that response, or was it merely intended to be humorous?*
> 
> ...





It's one giant humor filler episode, remember it's the same episode where Appa and Momo in Aang's mind gain voices and fight like samurai...the no pants scene as well as the dragonball parody reflect the humorus quality of the episode.

Honestly how could you not tell this by watching the episode...i mean the episode doesn't have a deep meaning or anything...it's filler and nothing else


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 31, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When Aang was dreaming about himself confronting Ozai, why would either he or Ozai care about whether or not they were wearing pants? In an actual life-or-death situation, one does not have time to worry about if they are fully-clothed or not.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 31, 2010)




----------



## Nodonn (Oct 31, 2010)

> After Aang awoke from his day dream of kissing Katara, Katara asked him about what he was dreaming, and he responded, "living underwater?" Was there any deep, hidden meaning to that response, or was it merely intended to be humorous?



[DDJ mode] It's actually a subtle criticism of capitalism and its effect on society. [/DDJ mode]


----------



## Banhammer (Oct 31, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I preferred Aang with hair, regardless.



I thought it was a nice change of look, if it were to be temporary.

Like a christmas decoration. In the summer


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When Aang was dreaming about himself confronting Ozai, why would either he or Ozai care about whether or not they were wearing pants? In an actual life-or-death situation, one does not have time to worry about if they are fully-clothed or not.
> 
> After Aang awoke from his day dream of kissing Katara, Katara asked him about what he was dreaming, and he responded, "living underwater?" Was there any deep, hidden meaning to that response, or was it merely intended to be humorous?
> 
> ...


To the first part of your post...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 31, 2010)

"My first girlfriend turned into the moon."
"That's rough, buddy."


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> "My first girlfriend turned into the moon."
> "That's rough, buddy."


Yeah, all that weight she gained


----------



## Time Expired (Oct 31, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> "My first girlfriend turned into the moon."
> "That's rough, buddy."



Quite possibly one of the best lines from Zuko - even more hysterical in that he didn't inquire about it whatsoever.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 31, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Quite possibly one of the best lines from Zuko - even more hysterical in that he didn't inquire about it whatsoever.



Zuko is a good Bro...although he totally cockblocked Sokka later.


----------



## The Potential (Oct 31, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> he totally cockblocked Sokka later.



 He so did!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Quite possibly one of the best lines from Zuko - even more hysterical in that he didn't inquire about it whatsoever.


Well, he was there somewhat


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 31, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Quite possibly one of the best lines from Zuko - even more hysterical in that he didn't inquire about it whatsoever.



"I'm never happy."

Side note: 1500 post barrier...

BREACHED.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> "I'm never happy."
> 
> Side note: 1500 post barrier...
> 
> BREACHED.


HONOOOOOOR!

Neat trivia thing, Dante's brother was the voice of ham Zuko


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 31, 2010)

Watching Sozin's comet now.

Good god are the old people in this show badass.

Edit: AIRSHIP SLICE!


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Oct 31, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> HONOOOOOOR!
> 
> Neat trivia thing, Dante's brother was the voice of ham Zuko





I'm so glad I saved this gif.


----------



## Time Expired (Oct 31, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Zuko is a good Bro...although he totally cockblocked Sokka later.



 

Sokka - hair down...rose in mouth . 



ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, he was there somewhat



Only kicking Zhao's ass  



H.P. Jovecraft said:


> "I'm never happy."
> 
> Side note: 1500 post barrier...
> 
> BREACHED.



Serving yet again to show he and Mai - perfection.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Sokka - hair down...rose in mouth .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like Daria and the dude sitting on her hair


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 31, 2010)

Finished the series, definitely one of the best animated shows i've ever seen. In particular, I loved Zuko becoming Fire Lord, since once again it meant that the Avatar and the Fire Lord were friends.

I'm curious though, did Aang have any idea Zuko was related to Roku?

My only actual complaint with the series was the lack of resolution of the Ursa storyline. Hopefully Korra helps with that.


----------



## Mider T (Oct 31, 2010)

I thought it was her neck, not her hair?


----------



## The Potential (Oct 31, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Finished the series, definitely one of the best animated shows i've ever seen. In particular, I loved Zuko becoming Fire Lord, since once again it meant that the Avatar and the Fire Lord were friends.
> 
> I'm curious though, did Aang have any idea Zuko was related to Roku?
> 
> My only actual complaint with the series was the lack of resolution of the Ursa storyline. Hopefully Korra helps with that.



Welcome to the club bro.

Now I'm just waiting for DDJ to finish the series so I can free my Set and let loose it's awesomeness.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 31, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I'm curious though, did Aang have any idea Zuko was related to Roku?



I'd presume that he found out after the final battles, but officially he does not.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

Mider T has an interesting dichotomy in his recent set, his avatar is from a yaoi, and his sig gif is from an undeniably hetero anime


----------



## The Potential (Oct 31, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I'd presume that he found out after the final battles, but officially he does not.



Your a Mod, so I think you can help me here. How can I put up a moving Avatar? I have tried it and it wont work.



On topic: Any news on Korra?


----------



## Shade (Oct 31, 2010)

Nothing new to report on Korra x 9001.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 31, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Your a Mod, so I think you can help me here. How can I put up a moving Avatar? I have tried it and it wont work.



Upload a gif as your avatar.

No new news on Korra at the moment. Right now they are working away.


----------



## The Potential (Oct 31, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Upload a gif as your avatar.
> 
> No new news on Korra at the moment. Right now they are working away.



Funny thing, the Avatar I have now is a gif. It just wont move. 




*Edit:* Oh look, I made it work....


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 31, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Oh you are to die for  I dare say, DDJ has given this senior thread new life.



Thank you very much, Reikai Demon, if that is a compliment.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Oct 31, 2010)

I can't say for the rest of our Jovedom here, but I am amused


----------



## The Potential (Oct 31, 2010)

I agree with Reikai. Welcome to the club DDJ

I miss Terra. Where did she run off to?


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 31, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> I agree with Reikai. Welcome to the club DDJ
> 
> I miss Terra. Where did she run off to?



Here.

I had a lot to do... xD

And plus, since I'm done with the series, I didn't want to stop all the long posts that were being made lol

Also, I don't want to accidentally mention a spoiler to anyone and feel bad for it >.<



> Nothing new to report on Korra x 9001.


Any news on Korra?


----------



## The Potential (Nov 1, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Here.
> 
> I had a lot to do... xD
> 
> ...



 Terras back! Trust me you wouldn't have stoped the long post being made. Have you met the new guy DDJ?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 1, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I'd presume that he found out after the final battles, but officially he does not.



I was actually really surprised it wasn't mentioned when he wanted to join, or in the Sun Warriors ep when Zuko was freaking about being judged based on his ancestry.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 1, 2010)

Hey, I'm gonna leak from HR. This might be me demodded, as the #1 rule is not to leak. But it's my gift to you:





*Spoiler*: __ 



The staff is _heavily_ pro-Avatar


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 1, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Terras back! Trust me you wouldn't have stoped the long post being made. Have you met the new guy DDJ?



I remember him posting here when I was post


----------



## The Potential (Nov 1, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I remember him posting here when I was post




Yeah well, he's new to the series and is now at the middle of season 3. He post his reviews about the Ep's he has recently watched. It's a nice read honestly, I enjoy them.

I'm just awaiting for the day he finishes the series, so I can free my Set from spoilers..


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 1, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Yeah well, he's new to the series and is now at the middle of season 3. He post his reviews about the Ep's he has recently watched. It's a nice read honestly, I enjoy them.
> 
> I'm just awaiting for the day he finishes the series, so I can free my Set from spoilers..



Ah, the one making the huge posts about the episodes.

Yes, I remember him.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 1, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Ah, the one making the huge posts about the episodes.
> 
> Yes, I remember him.



Yeah thats the one.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 1, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> It's one giant humor filler episode, remember it's the same episode where Appa and Momo in Aang's mind gain voices and fight like samurai...the no pants scene as well as the dragonball parody reflect the humorus quality of the episode.
> 
> Honestly how could you not tell this by watching the episode...i mean the episode doesn't have a deep meaning or anything...it's filler and nothing else



No, no it's not a filler episode. Damn people love using that word. Every episode after the Awakening was leading up to them reaching the rendezvous point of the invasion. Hence the traveling from village to village gathering supplies and intel. There they are and Aang is going nuts because of the invasion happening in a few days. The audience knows better but in his mind, this is the huge showdown between Ozai and Himself. So not only that but you've got the Zuko B-plot which will directly be referenced in a HUGE way later on down and was instrumental in him leaving to join the Avatar.

I'm not sure if we need to redefine the term filler or not.
It's just such a dismissive designation and especially frustrating when it's not used correctly.


----------



## Burke (Nov 1, 2010)

Everything is canon+important=not filler

go back to bleach or naruto where fillers belong


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 1, 2010)

Well, not to belabor the point, but I must have spent at least 50 posts trying to argue that original works cannot contain filler.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 1, 2010)

Well...with those shows the term is much more apt. Generally because Japan doesn't do season breaks so material is made up to literally fill the time between the break of the original story continuity. At least with The Great Divide you find out that Earth Kingdom residents are being uprooted from their homes and trying to make their way to Ba Sing Se which of course plays a bigger part in the story later on.

I prefer standalone when referring to certain Avatar episodes. You can't just jump into Siege of The North part II for example but watching The Northern Air Temple shouldn't pose a problem for a first time watcher. You have to remember too that Avatar was influenced by the TV series Kung Fu so just from that alone you can see why going from village to village became an important part of the show.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 1, 2010)

The denotation of filler should be applied to all adapted media but the conotation should never leave the world of anime/manga/light novels/visual novels/picture dramas/radio dramas.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 1, 2010)

I understand that filler is probably not the appropriate term for these episodes, but when I see an episode that does not contribute to the central plot, does not involve any significant character development and can basically be skipped without detriment to the series as a whole, then I call it filler.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 1, 2010)

ElementX said:


> I understand that filler is probably not the appropriate term for these episodes, but when I see an episode that does not contribute to the central plot, does not involve any significant character development and can basically be skipped without detriment to the series as a whole, then I call it filler.


Seconded .


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 1, 2010)

Un-seconded. Use the correct terminology. It's not filler, stop calling it that just because you can't think of a proper word for it.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 1, 2010)

You can't just apply the word to anything within the story that you don't like. Sorry, that's how it is. I believe that Mike or Bryan responded to those accusations in the Q&A portion of the Sozin's Comet novelization. After a while I guess that they had it with defending their work and stated that Korra would contain no filler episodes. Even though Airbender had none to start with.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 1, 2010)

It seems to me that the users of this forum are using two differing definitions of the term "filler." The first definition is the most literal, the most proper, and the best-known: episodes or chapters in a series adapted from another series that are not present in the source material to allow the creator of the source material to produce additional chapters or episodes of it. The second definition is more figurative and also less proper: episodes or chapters in an original work that do not seem to contribute to the overall central story of the series. The various filler arcs from _Bleach_ and _Naruto_ are examples of the first type of filler, while some people apparently believe that some episodes of _Avatar: the last Airbender,_ such as _The Great Divide_ or _Nightmares and Daydreams,_ are of the second type. However, I disagree with that sentiment, as _The Great Divide_ helped to reveal more about the people and the world of the series, and _Nightmares and Daydreams_ showed the effect that Aang's anxiety about fighting the Fire Lord was having on him.

I just finished watching _The Western Air Temple,_ and I now see that the heroes have visited every air temple except for the eastern one, although Aang visited that temple in _The Guru_ and learning about his _chakra._ I liked how the Western Air Temple's design was so very different from those of the the three air temples; building it directly into the cliff is certainly an excellent method for concealing it.

When Haru referred to The Duke as simply "Duke," The Duke correctd him by saying, "It's _The_ Duke;" however, that is not grammatically correct. If a person has "the" in their name or title, that word is used when referring to them indirectly, but not directly, so Haru was actually correct in how he addressed The Duke. On the subject of The Duke and Haru, I was disappointed by how they and Teo had little presence in this episode. I know that they are only secondary characters, but I would like to see them have more screentime before the end of the series.

I was wondering when Combustion Man would appear again, and I see that he was finally defeated; it was good that Sokka was the one who dealt the final strike, but I am still hoping for Sokka to battle an opponent in a melee fight. Why, however, did Combustion Man attempt to use his fire-bending after the strike to his head had disrupted his _ki/chakra_ flow? That seems to be very unintelligent to me. Wow, Combustion Man actually died; that is only the second time in fifty-two episodes, that I have seen currently, that a character has died, despite the incredible battles and supernatural powers that have been shown thus far (the first was Zhao in _Siege of the North)._

Finally, my favorite part of the episode was Zuko's presence and his attempt to reconcile with the others. I can understand their reluctance to trust him, but they were awfully harsh toward him; do they not understand the hardships that he has endured? In my opinion, he has suffered from far worse adversities than have any of other protagonists. I was glad that the team eventually accepted him, although Katara certainly was angry and mildly frightening at the end of the episode. It seems to me that she is still upset about Zuko's decision in _The Crossroads of Destiny,_ although I believe that she could be dealing with her emotions in a better manner.

Now that Aang has a fire-bending teacher, I wonder how well he will learn the art? I am rather disappointed by that, however, because that will take away the only advantage that Zuko, Azula, and Ozai have over him. How, exactly, will Ozai be a challenge to Aang if he (Ozai) can bed only one element while Aang can bend all four?


----------



## Wan (Nov 1, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When Haru referred to The Duke as simply "Duke," The Duke correctd him by saying, "It's _The_ Duke;" however, that is not grammatically correct. If a person has "the" in their name or title, that word is used when referring to them indirectly, but not indirectly, so Haru was actually correct in how he addressed The Duke.



Really?  Of all things, you find _this_ worth noting???


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> It seems to me that the users of this forum are using two differing definitions of the term "filler." The first definition is the most literal, the most proper, and the best-known: episodes or chapters in a series adapted from another series that are not present in the source material to allow the creator of the source material to produce additional chapters or episodes of it. The second definition is more figurative and also less proper: episodes or chapters in an original work that do not seem to contribute to the overall central story of the series. The various filler arcs from _Bleach_ and _Naruto_ are examples of the first type of filler, while some people apparently believe that some episodes of _Avatar: the last Airbender,_ such as _The Great Divide_ or _Nightmares and Daydreams,_ are of the second type. However, I disagree with that sentiment, as _The Great Divide_ helped to reveal more about the people and the world of the series, and _Nightmares and Daydreams_ showed the effect that Aang's anxiety about fighting the Fire Lord was having on him.
> 
> I just finished watching _The Western Air Temple,_ and I now see that the heroes have visited every air temple except for the eastern one, although Aang visited that temple in _The Guru_ and learning about his _chakra._ I liked how the Western Air Temple's design was so very different from those of the the three air temples; building it directly into the cliff is certainly an excellent method for concealing it.
> 
> ...


It was meant to be funny, not a Harvard dissertation on the English language.

And Chakra is only an energy in Naruto, Sokka hit him in A CHAKRA though, or at least a point on his meridian. 

And Combustion Man was never smart, much like a Terminator without higher sophisticated programming.

And as for Ozai dis/advantage....Well, let's just say Aang has  his work cut out for him.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 2, 2010)

Okay. Enough of that. Onto other business.
Will the entire series ever be remastered in high definition and released on Blu-ray? Would you double dip if that were the case?

Also DDJ, you missed Jet's death in Lake Laogai.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When Haru referred to The Duke as simply "Duke," The Duke correctd him by saying, "It's _The_ Duke;" however, that is not grammatically correct. If a person has "the" in their name or title, that word is used when referring to them indirectly, but not indirectly, so Haru was actually correct in how he addressed The Duke. On the subject of The Duke and Haru, I was disappointed by how they and Teo had little presence in this episode. I know that they are only secondary characters, but I would like to see them have more screentime before the end of the series.



You know...I noticed that to. :/



			
				SuperStarSeven said:
			
		

> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> *Also DDJ, you missed Jet's death in Lake Laogai.*


Oh my gosh! I don't remember that


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 2, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Okay. Enough of that. Onto other business.
> Will the entire series ever be remastered in high definition and released on Blu-ray? Would you double dip if that were the case?
> 
> Also DDJ, you missed Jet's death in Lake Laogai.


Now that I have a PS3, yes.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 2, 2010)

Does anyone here believe that the opening of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is somewhat similar to the opening of _Gargoyles,_ below?
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygrEVnrg3Ic[/YOUTUBE]
Both openings have a main character narrating and providing an explanation of the series and its world, and, of course, both are some of the finest western animated series ever made, in my opinion (although _Reboot_ is still my favorite).



Superstarseven said:


> Also DDJ, you missed Jet's death in Lake Laogai.



Yes, I nearly forgot about that; I suppose that the fact that Jet did not die on-screen is the reason that I did not recall it for my above post.

I just finished watching _The Firebending Masters,_ and first, Zuko simply cannot get a break, can he? He seems to attract misfortune more so than any other character in this series. Being unable to firebend, and at a crucial moment, was very bad. I know that he inability to bend is meant to be interpreted literally and at face value, and I suspect that some people may be tiring of me offering alternate interpretations of this series, but Zuko's inability to properly firebend to me was reminiscent of the Freudian concept of castration anxiety, a metaphorical degradation or loss of power.

The idea of needing to learn firebending from the original masters of the art was definitely a good concept, and this episode was the first episode where Aang and Zuko work as a team to accomplish a common goal. I immediately suspected that the two masters would be dragons, and I was not disappointed. I wonder if there is any connection between Zuko's vision of two dragons back in the second season and this episode?

I am glad that Zuko has finally overcome his anger and rage and found a new method for firebending, one that originates from his vitality and passion. It is very unfortunate that the Fire Nation has lost the true meaning of firebending and instead is fueled by rage and hatred. Perhaps Zuko shall be able to change that; and if not, he should certainly now be able to fight Azula equally, especially with Sozin's Comet empowering his bending.

Did anyone here believe that Aang and Zuko's initial approach to the city of the Sun Warriors, and discovery of the Sunstone, were reminiscent of the opening scene of _Raiders of the Lost Ark?_ I was actually half-expecting a giant boulder to appear after Zuko picked up the Sunstone. And did anyone here find the Dragon Dance that Aang and Zuko performed to be similar to the Fusion Dance from _Dragon Ball?_ I certainly did.

Well, Aang is now capable of bending all four elements; that is awesome, yet I cannot help feeling that Katara, Toph, and Zuko now are less impressive  because their own abilities are less unique now. Hopefully, they shall demonstrate that they are still useful and can perform feats that Aang cannot (and I also hope that generating lighting remains exclusive to Azula and Ozai).


----------



## Mider T (Nov 2, 2010)

Zuko became The Woobie to balance out Sokka's recent level up in badass.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 2, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





DemonDragonJ said:


> It seems to me that the users of this forum are using two differing definitions of the term "filler." The first definition is the most literal, the most proper, and the best-known: episodes or chapters in a series adapted from another series that are not present in the source material to allow the creator of the source material to produce additional chapters or episodes of it. The second definition is more figurative and also less proper: episodes or chapters in an original work that do not seem to contribute to the overall central story of the series. The various filler arcs from _Bleach_ and _Naruto_ are examples of the first type of filler, while some people apparently believe that some episodes of _Avatar: the last Airbender,_ such as _The Great Divide_ or _Nightmares and Daydreams,_ are of the second type. However, I disagree with that sentiment, as _The Great Divide_ helped to reveal more about the people and the world of the series, and _Nightmares and Daydreams_ showed the effect that Aang's anxiety about fighting the Fire Lord was having on him.
> 
> I just finished watching _The Western Air Temple,_ and I now see that the heroes have visited every air temple except for the eastern one, although Aang visited that temple in _The Guru_ and learning about his _chakra._ I liked how the Western Air Temple's design was so very different from those of the the three air temples; building it directly into the cliff is certainly an excellent method for concealing it.
> 
> ...






No, Katara was the one who was unecessarily hars to Zuko. But this probably stms from what happened with them in Ba Sing Se. At the same time, Zuko was still so confused back then, and he took what seemed to him, ike the right path. He'd get his honor, his father's respect, and everything else. What the hell could go wrong, right? 

But he betrayed Iroh in doing so, and that was simply not  a price Zuko was willing to pay because he wasn't being himself and was just putting up a huge front. Indeed, what Zuko's had to go through is far worse than everything the Gang has had to tackle.

And, you are still underestimating Ozai. You'll see soon enough. 

Also, Katara, Sokka, and Toph are in no way being downplayed. They can still go toe-to-toe with Aang using only one element.


----------



## Wan (Nov 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I just finished watching _The Firebending Masters,_ and first, Zuko simply cannot get a break, can he? He seems to attract misfortune more so than any other character in this series. Being unable to firebend, and at a crucial moment, was very bad. I know that he inability to bend is meant to be interpreted literally and at face value, and I suspect that some people may be tiring of me offering alternate interpretations of this series, but Zuko's inability to properly firebend to me was reminiscent of the Freudian concept of castration anxiety, a metaphorical degradation or loss of power.





Oh no, I'm not tiring of your "alternate interpretations".  It's strangely entertaining to see you pull sexual connotations out of scenes where no one else had even considered it, and the creators likely never thought of it that way.


> Did anyone here believe that Aang and Zuko's initial approach to the city of the Sun Warriors, and discovery of the Sunstone, were reminiscent of the opening scene of _Raiders of the Lost Ark?_ I was actually half-expecting a giant boulder to appear after Zuko picked up the Sunstone. And did anyone here find the Dragon Dance that Aang and Zuko performed to be similar to the Fusion Dance from _Dragon Ball?_ I certainly did.



Yes, when the episode first aired many fans noted the similarity.



> Well, Aang is now capable of bending all four elements; that is awesome, yet I cannot help feeling that Katara, Toph, and Zuko now are less impressive  because their own abilities are less unique now. Hopefully, they shall demonstrate that they are still useful and can perform feats that Aang cannot (and I also hope that generating lighting remains exclusive to Azula and Ozai).



Katara's still got bloodbending.  Toph still has metalbending.  Zuko still has his swords.  Those are things Aang cannot do.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 2, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> And Chakra is only an energy in Naruto, Sokka hit him in A CHAKRA though, or at least a point on his meridian.



Forgive me for asking this, but could you please explain that in a manner that is easier to comprehend? I normally can understand nearly anything that I hear or read, but the manner in which you spoke that line is making it difficult for me to understand its exact meaning.



Mider T said:


> Zuko became The Woobie to balance out Sokka's recent level up in badass.



That really annoys me, as Zuko is my favorite character, and seeing him become less badass is bothersome. Why does this series even need a "woobie," anyway? Would it not be better to have _another_ badass character among the protagonists; a greater number of badass characters means that more awesomeness shall occur.



Mordin Solus said:


> Oh no, I'm not tiring of your "alternate interpretations".  It's strangely entertaining to see you pull sexual connotations out of scenes where no one else had even considered it, and the creators likely never thought of it that way.



Are you being serious or sarcastic? I cannot tell. If you are being serious, then I thank you very much.



Mordin Solus said:


> Katara's still got bloodbending.  Toph still has metalbending.  Zuko still has his swords.  Those are things Aang cannot do.



Good, I hope that it remains that way, and I also hope that Aang does not learn to create lightning, for I wish for that ability to remain unique to Azula and Ozai.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Forgive me for asking this, but could you please explain that in a manner that is easier to comprehend? I normally can understand nearly anything that I hear or read, but the manner in which you spoke that line is making it difficult for me to understand its exact meaning.
> 
> 
> Good, I hope that it remains that way, and I also hope that Aang does not learn to create lightning, for I wish for that ability to remain unique to Azula and Ozai.





> Why, however, did Combustion Man attempt to use his fire-bending after the strike to his head had disrupted his _ki/*chakra*_flow?



Rest assured, only the royal family so far has been known to be able to generate lightning.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 2, 2010)

> Also, Katara, Sokka, and Toph are in no way being downplayed. They can still go toe-to-toe with Aang using only one element.


Lol Aang would mop the floor with them.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Forgive me for asking this, but could you please explain that in a manner that is easier to comprehend? I normally can understand nearly anything that I hear or read, but the manner in which you spoke that line is making it difficult for me to understand its exact meaning.


 
Chakra is the main energy source in Naruto. 
Combustion Man was hit in the Third eye/Ajna chakra.
Aang's chakras are blocked right now but his Ki is still flowing so using his power is not a problem for him except for the Avatar state of course. If a Ninja's chakras are blocked in Naruto, they can't do jack squat.

Very simple. Avatar just uses Chakras in the original correct meaning.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That really annoys me, as Zuko is my favorite character, and seeing him become less badass is bothersome. Why does this series even need a "woobie," anyway? Would it not be better to have _another_ badass character among the protagonists; a greater number of badass characters means that more awesomeness shall occur.



I think making Zuko look like that was to show his transformation from a SUPA SRS Prince to just a normal kid and one of the gang.  Failure humanizes people, and well done for keeping Zuko's strong character while pushing him a bit Bryke.

Also to quote Syndrome "When everyone is special, no one will be."  All series should at least have one comic relief or deadpan snarker.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Nov 2, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Combustion Man was hit in the Third eye/Ajna chakra.


Which Guru Pathik labelled as the Light Chakra, which is blocked by illusion.
So boomerang is an illusion.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 2, 2010)

I don't really get how Zuko got depowered.

Despite everyone saying different, I think he was equal to Azula (and better than wacko Azula) one vs. one.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 2, 2010)

Vampire Beel said:


> Which Guru Pathik labelled as the Light Chakra, which is blocked by illusion.
> So boomerang is an illusion.


Illusion = lie
Cake = lie
Illusion = cake
Boomerang = illusion

The boomerang is a cake.

The boomerang is a lie.

Combustion Man has diabeetus


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Nov 2, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Illusion = lie
> Cake = lie
> Illusion = cake
> Boomerang = illusion
> ...





> Combustion Man has diabeetus






I wonder how strong "Healthy" Combustion Man would be compared to "Sick" Combustion Man.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 2, 2010)

What the fuck?

Cake is NOT a lie. It's like a Cartesian measure of reality in the Avatar world.


----------



## Aruarian (Nov 2, 2010)

Anyone that's actually played Portal (you know, rather than those late ass bandwagoners) knows that the Cake was, in fact, not a lie.


----------



## Koi (Nov 2, 2010)

ZHAO LOVES CAKE AND HATES LIES

UNLESS THEY ARE LIES TO MAKE HIS FABULOUS SELF SEEM MORE FABULOUS


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 2, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Lol Aang would mop the floor with them.



I'd have to disagree considering one of them has mastered the element far beyond what Aang has done.

Toph could easily hold her own. The only real way Aang could win -- unless in Avatar state which is basically a cheat () -- is if Aang floated off the ground like his first encounter with her and Toph couldn't "see" him.


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 2, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Good, I hope that it remains that way, and I also hope that Aang does not learn to create lightning, for I wish for that ability to remain unique to Azula and Ozai.



Forgetting about Iroh buddy.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 2, 2010)

I would also assume Jeong Jeong knows how to create lightning, what with his philosophy on bending being all about control of the element and one's self. But given his negative views on Firebending in general, I'd say he wouldn't bother using it at all. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 3, 2010)

@Nizuma Eiji:
I don't think he's seen that yet, Nizuma. 

Encase he hasn't, you should spoiler it or something


----------



## The Potential (Nov 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> (and I also hope that generating lighting remains exclusive to Azula and Ozai).



Forgeting someone are we?


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 3, 2010)

Guys! He might not be there yet or something >.<


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 3, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Chakra is the main energy source in Naruto.
> Combustion Man was hit in the Third eye/Ajna chakra.
> Aang's chakras are blocked right now but his Ki is still flowing so using his power is not a problem for him except for the Avatar state of course. If a Ninja's chakras are blocked in Naruto, they can't do jack squat.
> 
> Very simple. Avatar just uses Chakras in the original correct meaning.



Yes, that does make sense.



Nizuma Eiji said:


> Forgetting about Iroh buddy.





Stark042 said:


> Forgeting someone are we?



Yes, I did forget about Iroh, but if he can use lightning, then I do not see why Zuko cannot, either.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I did forget about Iroh, but if he can use lightning, then I do not see why Zuko cannot, either.


What episode are you currently on...?

Might be a spoiler! 

*Spoiler*: __ 





If you are on or pass the episode, continue to read.

_Generating lightning involves a circular motion with the arms. Mentally, it involves a complete *absence of emotion and peace of mind, and physically it requires separating the energies of yin and yang (also an interpretation of positive and negative electric charge)*. When the yin and yang collide together to become whole again, lightning is created, and the bender only guides, rather than controls, the lightning's direction. Because of this complexity, a lightning attack usually takes much longer to initiate than standard fire attacks, though skilled benders, like Ozai, have been shown to generate lightning much faster than others. _


Zuko can't do that stuff.


----------



## Wan (Nov 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you being serious or sarcastic? I cannot tell. If you are being serious, then I thank you very much.



Hmm...I suppose the tone I would use in person would be slightly sarcastic, but I mean what I say.  Your posts are strangely entertaining.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I did forget about Iroh, but if he can use lightning, then I do not see why Zuko cannot, either.



Remember the episode "Bitter Work"?  Iroh tried teaching Zuko how to create lightning, but Zuko could not, due to his inner emotional turmoil.  Because of his turmoil, he could not separate the spiritual energies of ying and yang stably to create lightning.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 3, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Remember the episode "Bitter Work"?  Iroh tried teaching Zuko how to create lightning, but Zuko could not, due to his inner emotional turmoil.  Because of his turmoil, he could not separate the spiritual energies of ying and yang stably to create lightning.



You explained it better than the article at the Avatar Wikia xD


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 3, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> @Nizuma Eiji:
> I don't think he's seen that yet, Nizuma.
> 
> Encase he hasn't, you should spoiler it or something



I wouldn't just spoil that Terra, I started reading his posts. He's like in the final stretch of season 3 right now. 

And that's the first time someone's ever used my name in a sentence like that. I quite like it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 3, 2010)

Nizuma Eiji said:


> I wouldn't just spoil that Terra, I started reading his posts. He's like in the final stretch of season 3 right now.
> 
> And that's the first time someone's ever used my name in a sentence like that. I quite like it.



Yea, I know that now lol I just didn't want it to be spoiled for him 

No one has ever called you Nizuma before?


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 3, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Yea, I know that now lol I just didn't want it to be spoiled for him
> 
> No one has ever called you Nizuma before?



Not at all. I've been quoted, but it seems like people dodge using the name. It's tragic.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 3, 2010)

My username is a misheard lyric from a Superdrag song. It's not as if I'm deluded enough to consider myself a Super star or anything. Just an homage to one of my favorite music combos.

Thanks for changing your set, Terra. Now I don't have to think about Selena Gomez when I'm replying to you. I'm much better at being real around Canadian Jews.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Remember the episode "Bitter Work"?  Iroh tried teaching Zuko how to create lightning, but Zuko could not, due to his inner emotional turmoil.  Because of his turmoil, he could not separate the spiritual energies of ying and yang stably to create lightning.



You'd think that after western air temple he'd be able to do it. AND, you'd think that Azula wouldn't have been able to do it in the finale.


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 3, 2010)

It's probably something that gets much easier after repeated use. While learning it it requires perfect inner peace and concentration and all that but when you're as used to doing it as Azula it gets a lot easier.
That's my guess anyway.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 3, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> It's probably something that gets much easier after repeated use. While learning it it requires perfect inner peace and concentration and all that but when you're as used to doing it as Azula it gets a lot easier.
> That's my guess anyway.



That's how I always saw it. It's like learning anything really. The more you practice, the easier it becomes, and the less you have to think about it. Even if at first that task seemed impossible.

There's also no guarantee that the Iroh's way is the only way. For all we now, Ozai could have taught Azula how to create lightning in a different manner.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> That's how I always saw it. It's like learning anything really. The more you practice, the easier it becomes, and the less you have to think about it. Even if at first that task seemed impossible.
> 
> There's also no guarantee that the Iroh's way is the only way. For all we now, Ozai could have taught Azula how to create lightning in a different manner.



Yea, I attributed Azula's use of it to her being a prodigy, and repeated use. Same with Ozai, who despite most likely being mega pissed at Zuko, was able to whip up two bolts in an instant. They're just that good.

But I was still surprised that Zuko couldn't do it once he went good. Especially since he seemed to be a champ at redirection.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 3, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> But I was still surprised that Zuko couldn't do it once he went good. Especially since he seemed to be a champ at redirection.



I always figured he probably could do it he wanted to at that point, but there wasn't any reason to. Really you wouldn't use lightning unless you were trying to kill your opponent, which is why Iroh never really used it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

ElementX said:


> I always figured he probably could do it he wanted to at that point, but there wasn't any reason to. Really you wouldn't use lightning unless you were trying to kill your opponent, which is why Iroh never really used it.



Yea, that makes sense.

That, and it'd be kind of silly for Zuko to use it against Azula, since it would turn the match into a quickdraw contest, something Azula (who's much more experienced with lightning) would probably win.

Redirection was smarter, since the shooter is open once they make the shot, and essentially gambles on whether or not the target can redirect it. For Zuko, it was a sure thing, since if he could redirect Ozai's, he could redirect Azula's.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 3, 2010)

Zuko pwning Ozai was a good moment in the series. I'm glad he realised what honour was as he looked like a bitch playing happy family with a man who burnt half his face off.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

Best moment was: "Your uncle has rubbed off on you, hasn't he?" "Yes, he has."


----------



## Wan (Nov 3, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> But I was still surprised that Zuko couldn't do it once he went good. Especially since he seemed to be a champ at redirection.



He didn't have Iroh available to continue his training.  Even if he could separate the energies with stability, there's no guarantee he would generate a powerful lightning bolt, or be able to control that lightning bolt.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, that makes sense.
> 
> That, and it'd be kind of silly for Zuko to use it against Azula, since it would turn the match into a quickdraw contest, something Azula (who's much more experienced with lightning) would probably win.
> 
> Redirection was smarter, since the shooter is open once they make the shot, and essentially gambles on whether or not the target can redirect it. For Zuko, it was a sure thing, since if he could redirect Ozai's, he could redirect Azula's.



If Zuko knew both the generation and redirection techniques, he would definitely have an upper hand on Azula, who can't redirect.


----------



## Burke (Nov 3, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Best moment was: "Your uncle has rubbed off on you, hasn't he?" "Yes, he has."



Tea and failure 
that gives me an idea


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> He didn't have Iroh available to continue his training.  Even if he could separate the energies with stability, there's no guarantee he would generate a powerful lightning bolt, or be able to control that lightning bolt.



Point.



> If Zuko knew both the generation and redirection techniques, he would definitely have an upper hand on Azula, who can't redirect.



Yea, Im just talking about a direct confrontation. Using redirection against generation as opposed to generation against generation is clearly the smarter option.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 3, 2010)

The reason that I wished for Zuko to be able to generate lightning was so that he could balance the number of people who can do so. Here are the facts:

Ozai, Iroh, and Azula are the people who can generate lightning.

Ozai and Azula are villains, while Iroh is a hero.

Ozai and Iroh are siblings, while Zuko and Azula are siblings.

Therefore, by my logic, Zuko being able to generate lightning would balance the situation by having two heroes and two villains each capable of generating lightning and also having each member of two different sets of siblings being able to do so, as well.



Mordin Solus said:


> If Zuko knew both the generation and redirection techniques, *he would definitely have an upper hand on Azula, who can't redirect.*



Azula cannot redirect lightning? I am surprised by that, judging from how she is so very skilled in every other aspect of fire-bending; where was that fact revealed or stated, might I ask? And I disagree with the first part of your statement, because Azula has thus far shown that she is more skilled than Zuko in normal fire-bending, although I am hoping that he is able to fight her equally, and defeat her, before the end of the series.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 3, 2010)

> Azula cannot redirect lightning? I am surprised by that, judging from how she is so very skilled in every other aspect of fire-bending; where was that fact revealed or stated, might I ask?


It's a technique Iroh developed studying water benders. Considering Ozai and Azula's arrogance and lack of appreciation for the other bending arts it doesn't seem like a move they would develop.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 3, 2010)

Not to mention Azula and Ozai never really went on the "world trek" that Azulon, Iroh, and Zuko did.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 3, 2010)

Gunners said:


> It's a technique Iroh developed studying water benders. Considering Ozai and Azula's arrogance and lack of appreciation for the other bending arts it doesn't seem like a move they would develop.



Yes, that does make perfect sense to me.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

So was anyone else hoping for some higher form of airbending? Like the air equivalent to blood/metal/lightning bending.


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 3, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So was anyone else hoping for some higher form of airbending? Like the air equivalent to blood/metal/lightning bending.



Didn't really think of it too much. Though I did wish airbenders were capable of bending the air out of people and killing them.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 3, 2010)

> So was anyone else hoping for some higher form of airbending? Like the air equivalent to blood/metal/lightning bending.



Not me.

Airbending itself, to me, already had different levels of airbending. It could do almost everything. With enough airbending, one could move rock and water 



Nizuma Eiji said:


> Not at all. I've been quoted, but it seems like people dodge using the name. It's tragic.



Ah, I see xD



Superstarseven said:


> Thanks for changing your set, Terra. Now I don't have to think about Selena Gomez when I'm replying to you. I'm much better at being real around Canadian Jews.



What was wrong with Selena?  She's great! I decided Seth, he's so cute and funny. plus all his movies are so awesome.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 3, 2010)

Ozai and Azula would not even think to attempt lightning redirection. Neither of them have any appreciation for cultures outside of their own. Iroh thought the move up by watching Waterbenders, studying them, something Ozai and Azula wouldn't do. And this xenophobia is what prohibits that.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Not me.
> 
> Airbending itself, to me, already had different levels of airbending. It could do almost everything. With enough airbending, one could move rock and water



True. Airbending is definitely the best of the 4.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 3, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So was anyone else hoping for some higher form of airbending? Like the air equivalent to blood/metal/lightning bending.



Perhaps, but what would that be? There is no logical extension of airbending, as there is for the other elements, as you noted above. The best that I can imagine is the ability to transform ordinary air into toxic gas, but that may be too esoteric to be included under only airbending; it may be more logical as a combination of airbending and firebending.

Also, if two benders of two different elements breed, what element will their offspring be able to bend? Tenzin, the son of Aang and Katara, is an airbender, but why would Aang's native element be dominant over Katara's native element?

Can people other than the Avatar (benders or non-benders) sense the _ki_ of living beings, or is that ability exclusive to the avatar? Ty Lee seems to be able to do so, but she may have only been speaking metaphorically, not literally. Can a bender of a specific element sense another bender of the same element when the second bender bends their element (like how channelers in _The Wheel of Time_ can sense another person channeling the appropriate half of the One Power)?



Nizuma Eiji said:


> Didn't really think of it too much. Though I did wish airbenders were capable of bending the air out of people and killing them.



Yes, I would like to see that, as well, and also a waterbender making a person's blood literally explode from their vessels, or a firebender making a person spontaneously combust from within. Unfortunately, the target audience of this series will likely prevent such graphic depictions from being shown within it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 3, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> True. Airbending is definitely the best of the 4.



I wouldn't say best...to me, it was given an unfair advantage over all the elements. :/

I personally find Earthbending as the best 



pek


----------



## The Potential (Nov 3, 2010)

Anyone wonder why Zuko wanted to egg Azula on to Lightning bend? If she hadn't turned her attention to Katara, was Zuko planing on killing her? For I don't see what the point would be in this situation to just blast the ground like he did with Ozai.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 3, 2010)

It's random, completely random. Besides, plot says another Airbender has to be around for Korra if you don't like the first answer.

Besides, it's a spiritual thing, not genetic.


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I would like to see that, as well, and also a waterbender making a person's blood literally explode from their vessels, or a firebender making a person spontaneously combust from within. Unfortunately, the target audience of this series will likely prevent such graphic depictions from being shown within it.



I mean the action would be so anti-airbender, but it'd be a fantastic final resort. 

Never thought of the attacks you described. But it would be interesting.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 3, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Anyone wonder why Zuko wanted to egg Azula on to Lightning bend? If she hadn't turned her attention to Katara, was Zuko planing on killing her? For I don't see what the point would be in this situation to just blast the ground like he did with Ozai.



I think he wanted to show her he could beat her. I doubt he would have directed it back at her, but rather as a point of "I _can_ beat you if I wanted".


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The reason that I wished for Zuko to be able to generate lightning was so that he could balance the number of people who can do so. Here are the facts:
> 
> Ozai, Iroh, and Azula are the people who can generate lightning.
> 
> ...


No no no no, that's is wroooong. 

It's not like math or anything, there just isn't any need for Zuko to go zappy, and it betrays a key point of Zuko's character.

Lightning generation is called "cold-blooded fire" in the series. Zuko  doesn't possess the ability to kill his emotions, and do it. He's a man  of passion, and morals, there's no possible place in his heart to give  him the ability to do it. Even if he could bend lightning, he certainly  can't bring himself to fire it effectively; because, as surprising as it  sounds, Zuko doesn't have the state of mind to kill. 

That's an arbitrary reason for wanting Zuko to FIYA LAZORS, because  three of his relatives can. That's not logic, that's just wanting stuff  to be nice and neat to satisfy the OCD in people.


DemonDragonJ said:


> Perhaps, but what would that be? There is no logical extension of airbending, as there is for the other elements, as you noted above. The best that I can imagine is the ability to transform ordinary air into toxic gas, but that may be too esoteric to be included under only airbending; it may be more logical as a combination of airbending and firebending.
> 
> Also, if two benders of two different elements breed, what element will their offspring be able to bend? Tenzin, the son of Aang and Katara, is an airbender, but why would Aang's native element be dominant over Katara's native element?
> 
> ...


In one of the Stories of Ba Sing Se, it could've been soundbending, which Aang used to extend the range of that bison whistle. 

And other people than the Avatar can sense other people, Huu, Guru Pathik, and most likely other enlightened characters.

Ty Lee might be a different case, she might only be able to "see auras" as she claims, but not really sense others nearby. 

And I thought we already went over this, parentage won't give a person two styles. Heck, it isn't even guaranteed that a child of two bender parents COULD sire an individual capable of bending.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 3, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> No no no no, that's is wroooong.
> 
> It's not like math or anything, there just isn't any need for Zuko to go zappy, and it betrays a key point of Zuko's character.
> 
> ...



I agree, Aang extended the range of the bison whistle over a lot of the lower ring of Ba Sing Se, but, Soundbending wouldn't be very useful in a fight, methinks.

Jeong Jeong also may be enlightened. He received a vision from Avatar Roku and wasn't at all surprised about what was going on. I believe things like that happen to him from time to time.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 3, 2010)

It would make sense that Airbending would have a secondary power that is non-lethal.


----------



## Noah (Nov 4, 2010)

Oh! That's right! I had never even thought of the Bison whistle when I tried to justify soundbending.

Forget that nancyboy lung-collapse technique, Aang can make your head explode with bass waves.

Soundbending. It's canon.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 4, 2010)

Oh, bloody hell, no he can't. He can fake-soundbend, that's all. Stop this sanguinary balderdash this instant.


----------



## Koi (Nov 4, 2010)

Hah, like Hulk's sonic claps? 




Okay I'll stop now.

I brought Season 1 to work with me the other day, and this awesome new guy had never seen it, but we're only at The Great Divide and he seems really into it.  He loves Iroh already, so that's always a good sign.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 4, 2010)

Soundbending sounds like its from Naruto


----------



## Noah (Nov 4, 2010)

Less like Naruto, more like Scott Pilgrim. Giant sound energy Donkey Kong ftw 

....or even the dumb deaf lady from Heroes. But not Naruto.

EDIT: Yeah! Hulk claps! or Zoom snaps!


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Nov 4, 2010)

Was it ever clearly shown or stated who the most skilled non-bender is at any point throughout the series? (Be gentle).


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 4, 2010)

Piandao maybe?


----------



## Gunners (Nov 4, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I think he wanted to show her he could beat her. I doubt he would have directed it back at her, but rather as a point of "I _can_ beat you if I wanted".



I think he would have struck her down. His conversation with Aang ( Saying he needed to kill his father) shows that he would do what it takes in the moment. Actually it would be better to say I think he intended to direct it back at her, in the heat of the moment he probably wouldn't have it in him to kill his little sister.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 4, 2010)

Not to mention it was an Agni Kai. Azula was clearly trying to fight to the death. Zuko understood that, and he knew taking her down was a necessity. This wasn't like his duel with Zhao, where there wasn't anything at stake. He was fighting for the Fire Nation. He had to be prepared to kill her if necessary, just like he expected Aang to do with Ozai.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 4, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Piandao maybe?



I agree. If his "solo's 100 soldiers on his own" hype is true, that puts every other non-bender to shame.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 4, 2010)

Anyway ever notice how the Old Masters mirror the Gaang? 

Piandao-Sokka
Bumi-Toph
Pakku-Katara
Jeong Jeong-Zuko
Iroh-Aang


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 4, 2010)

So, the Avatar is born in a cycle of the elements, but is there any factor that determines whether the Avatar will be born as a male or a female, or is that completely random?

As I have mentioned before, I am watching _X-Men: Evolution_ and the _Teen Titans_ animated series simultaneously with _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ and I just finished the third seasons of the former two series, so I shall now be watching the final several episodes of _Avatar_ back-to-back, without any interruption between them, so I expect to finish the entire series in the next several days.

I just finished watching _The Boiling Rock,_ and it was good to see Sokka and Zuko working together; the two of them are nearly as good of a team as are Aang and Zuko, although they are both more mature and rational than Aang (at least usually), which was essential for such a delicate mission as freeing prisoners. I do not wish to insult Aang, but I do not believe that he would have had the level of patience and subtlety that they displayed; he would have preferred a dramatic entrance and exit, such as when he burst into the Fire Nation palace.

It also was good to see Suki and Hakoda again, and hopefully, they will remain with the party this time, instead of joining the main heroes for one episode and then leaving again, as they did the previous two times.

I see that Zuko was actually able to match Azula fairly well in combat this time, likely because of his new fire-bending techniques; I would like to see a Fire Nation-style firebender comment on how the Sun Warrior style is different from theirs, but that is not the most important of things at this point in the series.

Finally, my favorite part of those episodes was the scene at the end, where Mai and Ty Lee turned against Azula; I was nearly as surprised as Azula was to see that happen, but I had been hoping that Mai and Ty Lee would eventually decide to no longer tolerate her domineering and oppressive attitude. It was immensely satisfying to see the surprise on Azula's face when Ty Lee struck her, although I was sincerely hoping that either Mai or Ty Lee would verbally rebuke Azula and state that they would not stand for her attitude any longer, similarly to how Zuko rebuked Ozai. Either way, that was very awesome, and I hope that Mai and Ty Lee realize that the Fire Nation is tyrannical and decide to aid the heroes in their quest.

When Azula made it apparent that she was going to attack Mai, was she about to use lightning? Her movements seemed to suggest so. I also noticed that this is now twice that Azula was struck by a sneak attack when attempting to use lightning; she needs to be more observant when using such a time-consuming technique, although, in her defense, Ty Lee was far less likely to attack her than was Iroh, having never displayed open hostility prior to that scene. How would either Mai or Ty Lee fare in a fair fight against Azula? Would they be able to fight equally with her, or would her bending be too powerful for them?


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 4, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> I agree. If his "solo's 100 soldiers on his own" hype is true, that puts every other non-bender to shame.



Even if it were only 14 soldiers, what a great Legend to follow you around.

So the Track Team have posted this up on their FB page.


> ATLA Fans! We've learned that more signatures could very well make the soundtrack come to life. Get your friends and family to all participate and one day the soundtrack will be released. Keep up the great work.



I signed it but if someone could please explain to an ignorant man such as myself what exactly Nickelodeon would've lost simply offering it an iTunes exclusive the day after the finale aired back in 2008. There has to be some crazy business decision I'm missing here. I mean even if they were slightly worried that it wouldn't sell enough physical copies...why not just online only?  I'm sure there was enough demand for one back before the 3rd season aired.

Anyway just explain this to me and help me to understand. If the answer is "It's just not that simple" then just state the reasons as to why and it'll help me get peace of mind.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 4, 2010)

ElementX said:


> Anyway ever notice how the Old Masters mirror the Gaang?
> 
> Piandao-Sokka
> Bumi-Toph
> ...



Yes, I have noticed that, but because the Old Masters were born first, it would be more accurate to say that Team Avatar mirrors the Old Masters. How does Aang mirror Iroh? Most of the others are obvious parallels, but that one I do not understand.


----------



## Wan (Nov 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When Azula made it apparent that she was going to attack Mai, was she about to use lightning? Her movements seemed to suggest so. I also noticed that this is now twice that Azula was struck by a sneak attack when attempting to use lightning; she needs to be more observant when using such a time-consuming technique, although, in her defense, Ty Lee was far less likely to attack her than was Iroh, having never displayed open hostility prior to that scene. How would either Mai or Ty Lee fare in a fair fight against Azula? Would they be able to fight equally with her, or would her bending be too powerful for them?



Perhaps Azula was going to use lightning, but at such a short range against a quick fighter like Mai, she likely was just going to firebend.  Mai has no defense against firebending, so Azula had no reason to use lightning.

In a straight fight, I do not think Mai or Ty Lee alone would be able to defeat Azula. Darts and shuriken from Mai can be dodged and blown away with firebending, while as noted Mai has no defense against Azula's lightning.  Suki demonstrated that a good martial artist can deflect Ty Lee's pressure point strikes, and Azula certainly is a good martial artist.



Superstarseven said:


> Even if it were only 14 soldiers, what a great Legend to follow you around.
> 
> So the Track Team have posted this up on their FB page.
> 
> ...



Signed!  As for why Nickelodeon hasn't released this in the first place, the network executives are just stupid.  We've know this since the massive delay before the last half of season 3 was aired, and then they were all aired in a single week.  Also, these are the same execs who greenlit a movie adaptation of Book 1 and let M. Night Shyamalan write and direct it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 4, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Perhaps Azula was going to use lightning, but at such a short range against a quick fighter like Mai, she likely was just going to firebend.  Mai has no defense against firebending, so Azula had no reason to use lightning.



Really? After what Mai did, I would expect Azula to shoot to kill; she does not tolerate insubordination, disobedience, and especially not traitors.

I forgot to mention several of my favorite humorous lines from _The Boiling Rock._ First, when Sokka said, "My first girlfriend turned into the moon," and Zuko replied, "That's rough buddy," the tone that he used actually caused me to laugh aloud; not very forcefully, of course, but more intensely than what I had for previous lines. Next, when Mai said, "I don't need protection," and Zuko followed, "Believe me, she doesn't," I did not laugh, but I did grin; I know that that line was meant to be taken literally, but I still imagine it having an alternative meaning. Finally, when Toph asked, "did you get any meat?", and Sokka replied (paraphrased, I cannot recall his exact words), "The best type of meat," I grinned again, for I was not expecting him to refer to his father and girlfriend in such a manner.


----------



## Wan (Nov 4, 2010)

Azula can kill with firebending as well as lightning.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Next, when Mai said, "I don't need protection," and Zuko followed, "Believe me, she doesn't," I did not laugh, but I did grin; I know that that line was meant to be taken literally, but I still imagine it having an alternative meaning.



 I swear your mind works in strange ways DDJ.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 4, 2010)

She was going to strike her down with lightning, you can see her hand motion and the way she was pointing her fingers.



> I don't need protection," and Zuko followed, "Believe me, she doesn't," I did not laugh, but I did grin; I know that that line was meant to be taken literally, but I still imagine it having an alternative meaning.


You need to get your mind out the gutter lol.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 4, 2010)

Gunners said:


> She was going to strike her down with lightning, you can see her hand motion and the way she was pointing her fingers



If she even could. Not many on came off as a fighter as well as Mai did; was there every a point where she was even vulnerable?

Which I suppose is good, an example of grounded skill defeating even adroit bender


----------



## ElementX (Nov 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I have noticed that, but because the Old Masters were born first, it would be more accurate to say that Team Avatar mirrors the Old Masters. How does Aang mirror Iroh? Most of the others are obvious parallels, but that one I do not understand.



You haven't finished the series have you? 

Iroh may have been a stretch, but I chose him to mirror Aang rather than Zuko because of his appreciation of other cultures, and easygoing attitude. And that's pretty much all I will say.

Don't worry, there aren't any serious parallels.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 4, 2010)

Azula was geting ready to Firebend when she was going to strike Mai. The motions look similar to Lightningbending but were missing one fatal thing. Lightning. When Lightningbending, you are generating it thru the motions of your body and hands before you release it. Although the motions look similar, there is no lightning seen. She was fixing to Firebend.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 4, 2010)

If Azula was going to use lightning, she would have gotten hit first. At that range, there was no way she could charge, aim, and fire lightning before Mai shot at her.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 4, 2010)

Noah said:


> Less like Naruto, more like Scott Pilgrim. Giant sound energy Donkey Kong ftw
> 
> ....or even the dumb deaf lady from Heroes. But not Naruto.
> 
> EDIT: Yeah! Hulk claps! or Zoom snaps!


Oh, very well
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5lanjFi6qo[/YOUTUBE]


DemonDragonJ said:


> Really? After what Mai did, I would expect Azula to shoot to kill; she does not tolerate insubordination, disobedience, and especially not traitors.
> 
> I forgot to mention several of my favorite humorous lines from _The Boiling Rock._ First, when Sokka said, "My first girlfriend turned into the moon," and Zuko replied, "That's rough buddy," the tone that he used actually caused me to laugh aloud; not very forcefully, of course, but more intensely than what I had for previous lines. Next, when Mai said, "I don't need protection," and Zuko followed, "Believe me, she doesn't," I did not laugh, but I did grin; I know that that line was meant to be taken literally, but I still imagine it having an alternative meaning. Finally, when Toph asked, "did you get any meat?", and Sokka replied (paraphrased, I cannot recall his exact words), "The best type of meat," I grinned again, for I was not expecting him to refer to his father and girlfriend in such a manner.


Well, Mai an Ty Lee are her best friends, so, even if she was planning to retaliate, I bet she held back, or was really dumbstruck. After all, choosing to lightning bend so close to Mai was a big lapse in judgment for her.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 4, 2010)

Gunners said:


> I think he would have struck her down. His conversation with Aang ( Saying he needed to kill his father) shows that he would do what it takes in the moment. Actually it would be better to say I think he intended to direct it back at her, in the heat of the moment he probably wouldn't have it in him to kill his little sister.



His father is a entirely different case than his sister. His sister grew up with this man. I doubt he would have killed his sister, not killing her after or during the show's end, proves that


----------



## The Potential (Nov 4, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> His father is a entirely different case than his sister. His sister grew up with this man. I doubt he would have killed his sister, not killing her after or during the show's end, proves that



Well, he had no need to just "off" her after the battle. She no longer posed an immediate threat.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 4, 2010)

The pilot is only available on the Book 1 Box Set Bonus Disc, and it contains audio commentary from Mike and Bryan. as far as I know, it does not exist in public without their commentary over it.


----------



## Piekage (Nov 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did Mai's parents wait for thirteen years to have another child? Does anyone here find that to be unusual? I do, because my brother and I are only two years apart in age, and all of my friends who have siblings have a difference of one to four years between them. And how is it possible that all seven daughters in Ty Lee's family (including Ty Lee herself) would be exactly alike in appearance? I would imagine that the best explanation would be that they are septuplets, but I do not wish to contemplate the idea of a single woman carrying that many children simultaneously.



It's possible that Mai's parents didn't want another child after Mai, or that they didn't think Mai's mother would be capable of having another. One fanon explaination I read is that Mai's mother had a rough childbirth with Mai, so they didn't try for another out of fear for the mother's health.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 4, 2010)

I always thought they waited simply because age didn't really matter to them....


----------



## Wan (Nov 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did Mai's parents wait for thirteen years to have another child? Does anyone here find that to be unusual? I do, because my brother and I are only two years apart in age, and all of my friends who have siblings have a difference of one to four years between them. And how is it possible that all seven daughters in Ty Lee's family (including Ty Lee herself) would be exactly alike in appearance? I would imagine that the best explanation would be that they are septuplets, but I do not wish to contemplate the idea of a single woman carrying that many children simultaneously.



I've know a few families to have such large gaps between children.



> Now, with that being said, I just finished watching _The Southern Raiders,_ and I have much to say about the scene in the beginning, where Suki was about to enter Sokka's tent and Sokka was waiting in a most interesting pose. I admit that many of my statements prior to this episode were great stretches of imagination, and that most of any perceived "innuendos" were simply in my mind, but this time, there is absolutely no way that the innuendo in that scene was unintentional. In my mind, everything that was occurring suggested that Sokka and Suki fully intended to "get it on" that night, and would have done so if Zuko had not interrupted (curse you, Zuko!).  And such an action would not have been unrealistic or nonsensical, either; the final battle is rapidly approaching, and there is the very real chance that none of the heroes will survive, so spending a night of making love and being intimate would actually be perfectly acceptable thing to do, at least in my mind.



Oh yes.  That scene was definitely intentional.  There's a thing TV Tropes calles , and here the creators of Avatar demonstrated their mastery of it.




> Now, as for the main plot of this episode, I liked how it dealt with the death of Katara's mother, for that has been a significant recurring theme during the course of this series, and I was glad that she finally was able to have closure on that subject, although I do agree with Aang and Sokka that she was being irrational and vengeful; I am surprised that Zukoa greed to assist her, despite knowing from experience what the desire for vengeance can do to a person. At the end, I was glad that she spared Yon Rha's life, although I was disappointed that Yon Rha was so pitiful and pathetic; I was hoping that he would be more confident and not afraid to face Katara's wrath, but that was not the case.



Zuko's always been a man of action.  He has learned from his past not the revenge is bad, but that the goal he was seeking after- capturing the Avatar and restoring his honor- was not the right goal.  That was not a goal of vengeance, but rather one of redemption- Zuko learned that he indeed needed redemption, but not in the way he thought.



> When Katara confronted Yon Rha, was anyone here reminded of _The Princess Bride?_ Specifically,
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Lol.  No, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's kind of funny.



> On that subject, Katara's mother's name, Kya, was originally Katara's name in the unaired pilot episode of the series. I have never seen that episode, but wish to watch it before I finish the series, so does anyone here know how I can find that episode? I have searched around, but thus far, I have not been able to find it.



The unaired pilot episode was included on the bonus disc of the Season 1 DVD box set.  However, it played with a commentary by the creators that could not be turned off, so you can't just watch the episode for what it is.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 4, 2010)

Here's some wishful thinking--perhaps they'll save it for the season 1 Blu-Ray.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did Mai's parents wait for thirteen years to have another child? Does anyone here find that to be unusual? I do, because my brother and I are only two years apart in age, and all of my friends who have siblings have a difference of one to four years between them. And how is it possible that all seven daughters in Ty Lee's family (including Ty Lee herself) would be exactly alike in appearance? I would imagine that the best explanation would be that they are septuplets, but I do not wish to contemplate the idea of a single woman carrying that many children simultaneously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I see how comparing the life and culture of your personal family is SUCH a valid comparison for a cartoon family dredged in a culture that is mostly alien to it's first audience. Yes.

I can also see how comparable you are in credentials and wisdom to people who made a career out of anthropological study; with certification they earned from several years of prior study in accredited institutions of learning and years more of tempering their minds and repute with experience in other cultures and countries.

And that is sooooo applicable to a cartoon series. I mean, what better ground for the Freudian safari of the primal recesses of the human beast can there be than a cartoon with better than average writers and a projected demographic of preteens? 

I'm so in awe of armchair psychoanalysts, they are like the archeologists of the streets, I think armchair psychoanalysts are at the same level as people who really do make contributions to the human library. I do not think this is the least bit insulting to those people. Not. One. Bit.

No, it's definitely not trite. Yep, not trite at all, nope nope nope, none at allll.

You are such a vanguard of truth and enlightenment for us stinkin' humans in this barbaric Victorianesq age of self-repressive mental castration and sterilization. 

Yep.

....

Yeeeeeep.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 5, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Yes, I see how comparing the life and culture of your personal family is SUCH a valid comparison for a cartoon family dredged in a culture that is mostly alien to it's first audience. Yes.
> 
> I can also see how comparable you are in credentials and wisdom to people who made a career out of anthropological study; with certification they earned from several years of prior study in accredited institutions of learning and years more of tempering their minds and repute with experience in other cultures and countries.
> 
> ...



Is it necessary for you to be so sarcastic in response to my post, Reikai Demon? I was being very serious and sincere in what I wrote; I put my feelings and emotions into it, and I find your response to be very insulting. Never did I claim to be superior to anyone else here, or to have a better understanding of this series than do the other users of this forum; I merely wished to provide my own opinions and insight on the subject, so I believe that your response is rather insensitive and callous.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Here's some wishful thinking--perhaps they'll save it for the season 1 Blu-Ray.



I hope so and hope not.

'Cause I don't have a Blu-Ray player xD

EDIT:
Wow...yea, I don't see why you had to be either, ReikaiDemon


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 5, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is it necessary for you to be so sarcastic in response to my post, Reikai Demon? I was being very serious and sincere in what I wrote; I put my feelings and emotions into it, and I find your response to be very insulting. Never did I claim to be superior to anyone else here, or to have a better understanding of this series than do the other users of this forum; I merely wished to provide my own opinions and insight on the subject, so I believe that your response is rather insensitive and callous.


I dunno, you sound awfully passive aggressive here...



> I believe that many people are too uptight or sensitive about sexuality, and should instead accept its importance in life.


Anyways, if you really wanna pick a cartoon's gonads, go for Batman. Heck, Bruce Timm drew porn of the show in his off time.

Though, yeah, you were right that Sokka waiting for Suki like that was a sexual reference. But it's played more for laughs than it is an adroit allegorical thingy about human sexuality. 

Look, we're not repressed, it's just that, it's kinda hard to take you seriously when you go on these armchair Freud tangents on Avatar. And no offense, it kinda sounds like you're trying too hard to sound smart.

But, that's just little ole me. It doesn't really bother me as much as some of the things you just don't get about the series. Seriously though, I typically roll my eyes halfways or so, but generally, I think it's amusing, albeit trite in annoying kind of way.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 5, 2010)

Rekky was being sarcastic?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 5, 2010)

Uh oh, now we're venturing into the territory where it's hard to tell what's sarcasm and what's not now.

Great going, me.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 5, 2010)

A few things about Mai's little brother. They might not have the same mother. Wouldn't be unusual for a nobleman to marry a few times and have children spread out over a long period of time. Another possibility, I doubt contraceptives in that time period were all that reliable. 

Also, thinking about what Mai says during the beach episode, it seems her father was fairly busy during her childhood and may not have wanted to deal with another child at the time (since it doesn't seem that he even had much time for her). Now that he's acquired a position he's happy with (He was apparently important enough that Ozai gave him an entire city), maybe he decided he finally had time for another child. 

And as far as needing a real life analog; My sisters are 37, 21, and 19 (I'm a bit closer to the oldest one).


----------



## Burke (Nov 5, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> A few things about Mai's little brother. They might not have the same mother. Wouldn't be unusual for a nobleman to marry a few times and have children spread out over a long period of time. Another possibility, I doubt contraceptives in that time period were all that reliable.
> 
> Also, thinking about what Mai says during the beach episode, it seems her father was fairly busy during her childhood and may not have wanted to deal with another child at the time (since it doesn't seem that he even had much time for her). Now that he's acquired a position he's happy with (He was apparently important enough that Ozai gave him an entire city), maybe he decided he finally had time for another child.
> 
> And as far as needing a real life analog; My sisters are 37, 21, and 19 (I'm a bit closer to the oldest one).



Damn stab, i never realized.

Oh and whats this, the Beach is helpful in discovering a characters background? Who knew!?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 5, 2010)

And here it is in gif form.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 5, 2010)

Is that for cereal?
That's full contact martial arts fighting right there.

There's also this news.


I personally find the linetest more fascinating but this is really interesting news also.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 5, 2010)

I just finished watching _The Ember Island Players,_ and I see that this episode served three important purposes. First, it was a "breather episode," one that is less serious than normal, immediately prior to the grand finale. Second, it is a recap of the entire series, albeit a very abbreviated and inaccurate one, for viewers both old and new, prior to the grand finale. Third, it is very apparently a response from the creators of the series to the various aspects of the fandom of this series, most notably the people who support Zuko and Katara as a romantic couple.

Many of my reactions were similar to those of the main characters as they watched the play, although not quite as extreme, although I did also laugh along with Toph at several scenes. I see that there is still tension between Aang and Katara, which is unfortunate, but I suppose that that tension exists for the purposes of drama, so that it can be resolved in the finale.

When Sokka spoke the the actor who was playing him, I wonder how the actor would have reacted if he had known that the person to whom he was speaking was the real Sokka, or how the child dressed as Aang would have reacted to the fact that the Zuko to whom he/she was speaking was the real Zuko. Their reactions would have been great to see.

I hope that Iroh appears in the finale, as he has had very little screen time in season three, thus far, and the same is true for many other characters who have had very few appearances, thus far. I hope that every important character who is still alive participates in the final battle, in some manner.

Wow, I have now reached the finale four episodes of the series! I am so very excited, yet I also feel slightly sad, knowing that this epic story will soon be ending. I am expecting the finale to be unbelievably awesome, and I hope that my expectations are not too high, so that I am not disappointed by it. I am not certain how long it shall take me to watch it, but I shall post my thoughts about the finale after I have finished watching it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 5, 2010)

EIP reminded me of that anecdote where Charlie Chaplin lost in a Charlie Chaplin lookalike contest.


----------



## Wan (Nov 5, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> And here it is in gif form.



Is this official?  If so- damn, Korra is going to be beast.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 5, 2010)

Everything points to a big 'ole yes.
Posted on a Korean blog with links to work done by kihyun ryu who's working on the new show. This looks fantastic. Ryu has done some great work on Airbender in the past. He designed Jet and the Freedom Fighters and also gave life to Foaming mouth guy.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 5, 2010)

Let's see how DEM SHOULDERS play out.  I'm hoping it's just because she's puffing out her chest to show her strength.

Also, if her personality is how I think it is, she might end up a Toph-like tsundere since there will be romance.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> And here it is in gif form.



Is that official? pek

Korra is going to be so friggin' awesome!


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 5, 2010)

That gif is jizz worthy. 
All my excitement for Korra is coming rushing back.


----------



## Darth (Nov 5, 2010)

That gif really is awesome..


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 5, 2010)

I guess this means Korra will have a slightly higher rating than the parent show.

Bending was a convenient way to avoid full contact fighting, and it makes sense that in Korra, given the stigma bending has for some people, that more scenes of full contact fighting would be present.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 5, 2010)

So Korra will be similar to Zuko in the sense that they are both wonderful benders and also, have amazing skills in martial arts.

I like it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> So Korra will be similar to Zuko in the sense that they are both wonderful benders and also, have amazing skills in martial arts.
> 
> I like it.



I saw resemblance to Ty Lee. 

I hope she's a _lot_ like Toph pek


----------



## Wan (Nov 5, 2010)

Lol, all it takes is a simple gif of some line drawings to get us all excited.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Lol, all it takes is a simple gif of some line drawings to get us all excited.



I would have gotten excited over just another picture of Korra


----------



## The Potential (Nov 5, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I saw resemblance to Ty Lee.
> 
> I hope she's a _lot_ like Toph pek



Yes, at first thought Ty lee because of the fighting stlye. I said Zuko concidering the fact that they are both great benders with other wonderful skills. Ty Lee on the other hand, is just an excellent fighter. 

Thats all.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 5, 2010)

Looks like Kisu's not resting on his laurels.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 5, 2010)

Yes, I suppose it does look close to Ty Lee's Dim Mak, though, the  double fisted punch looks more like a Shaolin technique, or Ba Gua  Zhang.

Understandably though, those styles share some techniques.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 5, 2010)

I wonder if this indicates less elemental fighting.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Yes, at first thought Ty lee because of the fighting stlye. I said Zuko concidering the fact that they are both great benders with other wonderful skills. Ty Lee on the other hand, is just an excellent fighter.
> 
> Thats all.



I was watching a movie the other day called "WuShu Warrior" and the art style looked a lot like Airbending and a little bit of Ty Lee.

This gif reminds me of it xD


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 5, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I was watching a movie the other day called "WuShu Warrior" and the art style looked a lot like Airbending and a little bit of Ty Lee.
> 
> This gif reminds me of it xD


Sounds like Ba Gua then


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Sounds like Ba Gua then



It also said it was taolu and sanda (I know sanda is sparring and I think the first is um...stances?) 

I did a youtube search, and I found this. And after watching a few videos, it did look a lot like this and it is even called "Wushu". 

[YOUTUBE]WHxgls-R22Q[/YOUTUBE]

Well, whatever it is, Jet Li uses it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 5, 2010)

It has been 70 years... perhaps Iroh's philosophy has taken hold, and the different bending disiplines learned techniques from each other.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> It has been 70 years... perhaps Iroh's philosophy has taken hold, and the different bending disiplines learned techniques from each other.



You mean like, for example, earthbenders inspiring waterbenders to adopt a similar style?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 5, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> You mean like, for example, earthbenders inspiring waterbenders to adopt a similar style?



I'd be very interested to see Earthbender techniques in waterbending. Imagine Toph's Praying Mantis done physically on the water.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I'd be very interested to see Earthbender techniques in waterbending. Imagine Toph's Praying Mantis done physically on the water.



That would be awesome 

I hope its done. It would be neat to see Airbending mixed with Earthbending or Firebending with Airbending.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 5, 2010)

Wushu isn't the name of a single martial art, it just literally means martial arts.





H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I'd be very interested to see Earthbender techniques in waterbending. Imagine Toph's Praying Mantis done physically on the water.


Does that mean walking on water?

You know, oddly enough, there wasn't enough underwater waterbending in the show.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 5, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> It has been 70 years... perhaps Iroh's philosophy has taken hold, and the different bending disiplines learned techniques from each other.



Writers, make it happen!


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Wushu isn't the name of a single martial art, it



Ah, okay then xD


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 5, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Wushu isn't the name of a single martial art, it just literally means martial arts.
> Does that mean walking on water?
> 
> You know, oddly enough, there wasn't enough underwater waterbending in the show.



Yeah, kind of Painted Lady like water bending.

Underwater... all I can think of is that bubble they made to cross Serpent's Pass.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 5, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> You mean like, for example, earthbenders inspiring waterbenders to adopt a similar style?



Isn't sand (which is linked to earth) bending similar in style to water bending?


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Isn't sand (which is linked to earth) bending similar in style to water bending?



I don't remember how it looks. But from my foggy memory, not from what I saw.


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 5, 2010)

Lol Toph in _The Serpent's Pass_: 

Administrator: Oh! The Golden Seal of the Flying Boar, it is my pleasure to help anyone of the Bei Fong family. 

Toph: It *IS* your pleasure. 

 

She's so damn unpretentious, I almost barfed up a lung when she threw her clout around and handed that bitchy administrator her ass right then and there.

Toph rocks


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Lol Toph in _The Serpent's Pass_:
> Administrator: Oh! The Golden Seal of the Flying Boar, it is my pleasure to help anyone of the Bei Fong family.
> Toph: It *IS* your pleasure.
> 
> ...



I agree pek

Why can't the world's animes/shows have more characters as awesome as Toph?


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 5, 2010)

^ dunno  - but it should happen.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 5, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> ^ dunno  - but it should happen.



We didn't get enough Toph in the series.  I wish there had been more episodes with her in it...she is such an awesome character.


----------



## Darth (Nov 5, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> That would be awesome
> 
> I hope its done. It would be neat to see Airbending mixed with Earthbending or Firebending with Airbending.



That's kind of an oxymoron though.

Firebending is fierce movement while airbending is constant fluidity. You can't really combine the two.

Earthbending is all about solidity while waterbending is all about momentum and control.

They don't match either.

You could probably match Firebending and Waterbending. Or Earth and fire. But it would be just weird to see any other combinations IMO.


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 6, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> We didn't get enough Toph in the series.  I wish there had been more episodes with her in it...she is such an awesome character.



Absolutely!  

They did such a good job on everyone.  Despite the fact that she came in late, she fit in so well with the group.  It's like she was always there.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 6, 2010)

Darth said:


> That's kind of an oxymoron though.
> 
> Firebending is fierce movement while airbending is constant fluidity. You can't really combine the two.
> 
> ...



The fire bending implemented by the military is about fierce movement, if you look at the fire bending used by Zuko after the dragon episode it became fluid. You see in his fight with Azula where he started to break dance. 

If you look at sand bending, they have to have fluid movement to travel on their vehicle.

I wouldn't say it is weird to see other combinations because in a way we have seen how they could potential mesh it just wasn't made obvious.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 6, 2010)

I'm not really talking about amalgamation, but yeah, it's not impossible. Air and Fire are complementary elements, so it wouldn't be a stretch for those two at all.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 6, 2010)

The lineart looks awesome. 

There definitely seems like she is using some airbending movements there though. Which is funny because that is supposed to be the one art she hasn't mastered.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

@Darth:

Okay, but what about the fire bending style Zuko uses after the dragon episode?




Soul Assassin said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> They did such a good job on everyone.  Despite the fact that she came in late, she fit in so well with the group.  It's like she was always there.



She makes the group....original and pure win. pek


----------



## Gunners (Nov 6, 2010)

Looking back at Sozin's comet people amuse me with their complaints about the show not being mature enough because of the lack of blood shed. As far as I'm concerned the scene with Azula rolling around on the ground was darker than having some scrub killed on the battlefield.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 6, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I agree pek
> 
> Why can't the world's animes/shows have more characters as awesome as Toph?


That's a rather loaded statement...


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 6, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Looking back at Sozin's comet people amuse me with their complaints about the show not being mature enough because of the lack of blood shed. As far as I'm concerned the scene with Azula rolling around on the ground was darker than having some scrub killed on the battlefield.



The main character was killed (or at the very least mortally wounded), brought back to life and spent 2 weeks in a coma. All at the tender age of 12.
Isn't the show aimed at 6-11 year old boys? I don't worry about that criticism, it's most definitely mature enough. Plus, one could always bring up how many cartoon series integrate the genocide or ethnic cleansing of an entire race into it's plot. It's not as if the Air nomads were whisked away to another dimension.
The Last Airbender is most definitely not a hollow title.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 6, 2010)

The show transcended that kind of balderdash. Instead of showing flagrant violence and bloodshed, it actually humanized the battles more and explored the underlying things associated with such things.


----------



## Koi (Nov 6, 2010)

..The show had genocide.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 6, 2010)

How did Pu-on Tim, the playwright who wrote the play _The Boy in the Iceberg,_ obtain such a great amount of information about the protagonists' adventures? Although it was partially inaccurate, it was surprising close to what actually happened, so I am wondering about that. Did Pu-on Tim interview the various people whom the heroes encountered? That seems to be the most logical explanation to me, but several scenes that were portrayed in the play were not witnessed by anyone apart from the main characters, such as the death of Zhao, so I wonder how Pu-on Tim learned about those events. Have the creators of the series ever offered an explanation for this occurrence?


----------



## Gunners (Nov 6, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How did Pu-on Tim, the playwright who wrote the play _The Boy in the Iceberg,_ obtain such a great amount of information about the protagonists' adventures? Although it was partially inaccurate, it was surprising close to what actually happened, so I am wondering about that. Did Pu-on Tim interview the various people whom the heroes encountered? That seems to be the most logical explanation to me, but several scenes that were portrayed in the play were not witnessed by anyone apart from the main characters, such as the death of Zhao, so I wonder how Pu-on Tim learned about those events. Have the creators of the series ever offered an explanation for this occurrence?


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 6, 2010)

I'll point you in the direction of the show's dialogue.



> Sokka: (He flips the poster back) Listen to this. (Cut to a frontal shot of Sokka with the back of the poster facing the camera) “The Boy in the Iceberg is a new production from acclaimed playwright Pu On Tim who scoured (Cut to the poster as camera pans up on the main characters with heavily exaggerated features. Sokka is pictured as a muscled man in his Season 2 outfit) the globe gathering information on the Avatar from the icy South Pole to the heart of Ba Sing Se. (Cut to an overhead shot of the scene) *His sources including singing nomads, pirates, prisoners of war and a surprisingly knowledgeable merchant of cabbage*.”


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 6, 2010)

No offense DDJ, I just find this funny as hell. 

Don't look to far into it bud. Just take it as it is. A light hearted bit of fun before, for lack of a better term "shit gets real".


----------



## Wan (Nov 6, 2010)

Gunners said:


> The fire bending implemented by the military is about fierce movement, if you look at the fire bending used by Zuko after the dragon episode it became fluid. You see in his fight with Azula where he started to break dance.


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 6, 2010)




----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 6, 2010)

I am in the middle of watching the finale now, and I just finished the first of the four episodes, and I have several things to say about it. First, this is why I wanted Zuko to kill Ozai during the eclipse, because I suspected that Aang would have qualms about doing so, while Zuko clearly did not. Second, I see that for the first time, there is tension between Azula and Ozai; that is very surprising. I wonder if Ozai is planning to dispose of Azula the way that he disposed of Zuko. Third, it is good to see Jun again, for she appeared in only a single episode of the first season prior to this episode. Finally, I see that Ozai's pride has reached a new level; while declaring himself to be "The Phoenix King" was very awesome, it is also very arrogant, and I believe that the more arrogant a person is, the more dramatic and humiliating their defeat shall be.

The finale has started well, and hope that it continues to be impressive.


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 6, 2010)

This is the first time that I am posting in this thread.  I did not really care for this show until I played the video game based on it for the Gamecube in 2007.  The game is all right, but it kept crashing.

When I started to watch Avatar, I was amazed by how well-written it was.  The writers did an amazing job with all of the characters and it teeming with awesome females.  I have seen all of the episodes and I even got my sister hooked on it for a time.  I have not gotten around to seeing what M. night Shyamalan (sp) did to the story but have heard mostly bad reviews.

Honestly, I want to know WTF happened to the Book of Air.  Shouldn't the show have started wih it?


----------



## Mider T (Nov 6, 2010)

What's the point of a Book of Air when Aang already knows Airbending?


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 6, 2010)

Mider T said:


> What's the point of a Book of Air when Aang already knows Airbending?



That book would have completed the series because all of the other elements were named.  I asked if it would have been good if it came before the other books because it could have showed Aang before he was frozen in the iceberg.  I am sure that I am not the only one who has thought of this.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 6, 2010)

No offense but that idea is pretty dumb.  We've been given flashbacks and info to know that Aang mastered Airbending at age 10, and was a prodigy at age 6.  He traveled a bit as apart of his Nomad Monk training.  How much more did we need to know?

Point is, he knew Airbending when the story started.


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 6, 2010)

Still, I think it could have worked if interesting characters were introduced and there was foreshadowing to Aang meeting Katara and Sokka.  We could have seen Aang meeting Bumi and Kuzon (sp) and the lead-up to the South Air Temple being raided.

It is a moot point now, but then they should not have named the other seasons after the other elements if they were going to leave out Air.  Anyway, I have read that the series was cut short because the executives at Nickelodeon were upset that the wrong demographic was watching the show.  If this is true and perhaps another season was made, I wonder what they would have named it.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 6, 2010)

I've never heard that. When one watches the show it never gives the impression of a work that was cut short. I've heard that about Invader Zim though. Now if that series had lasted longer than it did, we probably would've never seen Avatar.
If you're confused about that, it's all detailed in the Art book.


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 6, 2010)

I never watched Invader Zim. Can you elaborate?


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 6, 2010)

Senju Warrior said:


> I never watched Invader Zim. Can you elaborate?



Seriously? Wow, it's not a long-forgotten program like Mike, Lu and Og.
It's Invader Zim!

Anyway cartoon historian Jerry Beck had this to say on the subject - 


> Invader Zim barely lasted two seasons and has been relegated to cult status among animation buffs and devotees of Jhonen Vazquez?s comic book work. The show was too dark and subversive for Nick?s core demographic ? and much of the humor flew past the heads of their younger viewers


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 6, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Seriously? Wow, it's not a long-forgotten program like Mike, Lu and Og.
> It's Invader Zim!
> 
> Anyway cartoon historian Jerry Beck had this to say on the subject -
> ...



I get your point...Still, I think there is beauty to be found in the Avatar series due to the character development, angles and scenery.  Maybe both series could have coexisted if the executives were not as obsessed with demographics.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 6, 2010)

No, you see Bryan Konietzko was working on Invader Zim when it was canceled. The free time allowed him to think up ideas with Mike Dimartino. When Nick was looking to start up their very first Action-Adventure show then that gave Mike and Bryan an opportunity to pitch a show about a Kung Fu fighting monk.

I enjoyed Zim but if it's cancellation allowed for the creation of Avatar then I'm glad it ended when it did.


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 6, 2010)

Now, I understand.  Thank you for explaining that to me.  I should check out Invader Zim when I can.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 6, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am in the middle of watching the finale now, and I just finished the first of the four episodes, and I have several things to say about it. First, this is why I wanted Zuko to kill Ozai during the eclipse, because I suspected that Aang would have qualms about doing so, while Zuko clearly did not. Second, I see that for the first time, there is tension between Azula and Ozai; that is very surprising. I wonder if Ozai is planning to dispose of Azula the way that he disposed of Zuko. Third, it is good to see Jun again, for she appeared in only a single episode of the first season prior to this episode. Finally, I see that Ozai's pride has reached a new level; while declaring himself to be "The Phoenix King" was very awesome, it is also very arrogant, and I believe that the more arrogant a person is, the more dramatic and humiliating their defeat shall be.
> 
> The finale has started well, and hope that it continues to be impressive.


No.

Like I and many others have said before, it massively goes against the grain of Zuko's character and what is right.

End. Of. Story.


----------



## Burke (Nov 6, 2010)

I propose a 

*1000th Page 
Avatar-ganza-versery 
Thread Party*​
There will be ample amounts of critical thinking, theories, speculations, and general discussion. More so than ever before!
Heres to 1000 pages men, and terra, cant wait!
Cheers!​


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 6, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I propose a 1000th page Thread Party Avatarganza.
> There will be ample amounts of critical thinking, theories, speculations, and general discussion. More so than ever before!
> Heres to 1000 pages men, and terra, cant wait.
> 
> Cheers



OK, but who's house should we meet at?


----------



## Burke (Nov 6, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> OK, but who's house should we meet at?



I need adult supervision sooo.... party at stabs place!

jk, it shall take place in our fine "discusion" thread.


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 6, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I propose a
> 
> *1000th Page
> Avatar-ganza-versery
> ...



Will DDJ be there to read way too much into things?
A party isn't complete without him asking if Momo's dance is some subtle criticism on society.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 6, 2010)

Bryan worked on Invader Zim? 

Wow, I never knew that. The two series are so different.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 6, 2010)

I shall bring the cabbage cake


----------



## Wan (Nov 6, 2010)

Senju Warrior said:


> Still, I think it could have worked if interesting characters were introduced and there was foreshadowing to Aang meeting Katara and Sokka.  We could have seen Aang meeting Bumi and Kuzon (sp) and the lead-up to the South Air Temple being raided.
> 
> It is a moot point now, but then they should not have named the other seasons after the other elements if they were going to leave out Air.  Anyway, I have read that the series was cut short because the executives at Nickelodeon were upset that the wrong demographic was watching the show.  If this is true and perhaps another season was made, I wonder what they would have named it.



Is this naming thing really such a big deal? 

No, there is no truth to the idea that the show was cut short.  Mike DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko, the creators of Avatar, conceived A: TLA from the start as a story with a definite beginning, middle, and end (roughly divided between learning waterbending, earthbending, and firebending).  It was always going to have only three seasons, because the creators wanted the show to crescendo and go out with a bang rather than randomly trail off until it lost popularity and got canceled.  Personally, I think the show was much better for it.

The executives did fumble with it, specifically with the airing of season 3.  First, they waited around 9 months after season 2 before they premiered season 3.  Annoying, but they had a solid nine weeks of new episodes, so it was tolerable.  Then they waited another 9 months before airing the second half of season 3, and when they finally aired the episodes, they were all played in the same week.  They were also stupid enough to somehow release a season 3 DVD with a bunch of episodes before they even aired.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 6, 2010)

ElementX said:


> Bryan worked on Invader Zim?
> 
> Wow, I never knew that. The two series are so different.



Yeah man, when you work in Television you're all over the place.


----------



## Burke (Nov 6, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> Will DDJ be there to read way too much into things?
> A party isn't complete without him asking if Momo's dance is some subtle criticism on society.



And how.



ReikaiDemon said:


> I shall bring the cabbage cake



Reikai approved.


----------



## Shɑnɑ (Nov 6, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> And here it is in gif form.



That's awesome, I've been lurking the thread and decided to post when I saw this  Korra's fighting style is amazing!

Part of me hope that she won't be like Aang, but more like Toph.


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 6, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Is this naming thing really such a big deal?



That is just one of my little bugaboos.  Moving on...



Mordin Solus said:


> No, there is no truth to the idea that the show was cut short.  Mike DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko, the creators of Avatar, conceived A: TLA from the start as a story with a definite beginning, middle, and end (roughly divided between learning waterbending, earthbending, and firebending).  It was always going to have only three seasons, because the creators wanted the show to crescendo and go out with a bang rather than randomly trail off until it lost popularity and got canceled.  Personally, I think the show was much better for it.
> 
> The executives did fumble with it, specifically with the airing of season 3.  First, they waited around 9 months after season 2 before they premiered season 3.  Annoying, but they had a solid nine weeks of new episodes, so it was tolerable.  Then they waited another 9 months before airing the second half of season 3, and when they finally aired the episodes, they were all played in the same week.  They were also stupid enough to somehow release a season 3 DVD with a bunch of episodes before they even aired.



I started to watch Avatar in 2007, so I was aware of the breaks between Seasons 2 and 3 and between the first parts of Season 3, so I was particularly annoyed by that. 

It has been awhile since I have seen the show but I realize that it was pretty much complete.  It ended strong.   

Also, I also heard about a website that allowed people to view episodes of the series. I think it was called watchavatar.com.


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 6, 2010)

Senju Warrior said:


> Now, I understand.  Thank you for explaining that to me.  I should check out Invader Zim when I can.



I shall smite thee with piggies of doom until you do stupid Earth monkey.  

*throws piggy*

Just kidding - you might laugh at this once you watch the show.  Can't believe you haven't seen it.  It's righteous.  I find it very strange and, well, let's just say Zim is a little intense lol.



Farfalla. said:


> That's awesome, I've been lurking the thread and decided to post when I saw this  Korra's fighting style is amazing!
> 
> Part of me hope that she won't be like Aang, but more like Toph.



That's wicked.  Cannot wait until this starts.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 6, 2010)

N??ps said:


> I need adult supervision sooo.... party at stabs place!
> 
> jk, it shall take place in our fine "discusion" thread.



OK, I'll have to clean up a bit though. I'm also living back in Illinois and not California, so some people might need to carpool.


----------



## Wan (Nov 6, 2010)

Senju Warrior said:


> Also, I also heard about a website that allowed people to view episodes of the series. I think it was called watchavatar.com.



Technically, watching episodes online for free like that is illegal.  There are only two places online that I know of where you can watch the episodes on demand legally- Nickelodeon's official website, but they only have a few episodes, and Netflix, if you have an online subscription.  They have the whole series on demand, and you can register game consoles to Netflix so you can watch it on TV.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

Oh come on guys, leave DemonDragonJ alone. I think its awesome that he makes those posts! I saw a lot behind things in the show too and wondered about it as well. No need to give him facepalm images and the such. 

@N??ps:
I can't believe we're this far into the thread. 




Farfalla. said:


> Part of me hope that she won't be like Aang, but more like Toph.


I remember hearing she'll be a little bit like Toph...I think.

I certainly hope so xD


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 6, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Technically, watching episodes online for free like that is illegal.  There are only two places online that I know of where you can watch the episodes on demand legally- Nickelodeon's official website, but they only have a few episodes, and Netflix, if you have an online subscription.  They have the whole series on demand, and you can register game consoles to Netflix so you can watch it on TV.



Oh, I never went there, I just heard of it.  I wonder who leaked them.  I plan on patronizing the show by buying the seasons on DVD eventually.  I heard that NickToons is overplaying the show just like they are with SpongeBob.  There is such a thing as too much of a good thing....


----------



## ElementX (Nov 6, 2010)

Lol I remember how in the first season of Avatar, The Kyoshi Warriors was considered the girl power episode. At that point Suki was really the only action chick had, as Katara was still a waterbending rookie. 

One season later, Katara becomes a Waterbending master and we are introduced to Azula, Ty Lee, Mai and Toph. Now the main character of the next series is a girl. Kishimoto should take notes.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 6, 2010)

It's odd how rare long Shuang Dao are to find, even Wushu foils are of the short versions.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

ElementX said:


> Lol I remember how in the first season of Avatar, The Kyoshi Warriors was considered the girl power episode. At that point Suki was really the only action chick had, as Katara was still a waterbending rookie.
> 
> One season later, Katara becomes a Waterbending master and we are introduced to Azula, Ty Lee, Mai and Toph. Now the main character of the next series is a girl. *Kishimoto should take notes.*



He should. And also note that they are strong and not like the females he makes


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 6, 2010)

I think Kishimoto should take notes on how to write a goddamn story.

His cardboard characterization is the least of his problems--and that says a lot.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 6, 2010)

Azula: And since you can't see, I'm rolling my eyes. 

Lol.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

@Dr. Boskov Krevorkian:
I think that would be too much for him 



Gunners said:


> Azula: And since you can't see, I'm rolling my eyes.
> 
> Lol.





Poor Toph....


----------



## Burke (Nov 6, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> And here it is in gif form.



Wow, huge news, how did i miss this.
Fist to body contact? Thats like.... so not nickelodeons style. I mean when looking at ATLA where they came up with bending BECAUSE they couldnt have characters throwing punches.
I sure hope this is what the show is really like. Man, if we thought ATLA pushed nicks limits....

Also, seeing as they dont do anything in the show without first referring to existing martial arts styles, is anyone here able to tell what style that is.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

Looking at that gif, I can't help but feel that this show will have more "violence" and more "mature" themes.

If they can show Dragon Ball Z with beating each other and killing each other, I certainly hope its a bit more mature


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 6, 2010)

VIOLENCE IS IN NO WAY INDICATIVE OF MATURITY

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> VIOLENCE IS IN NO WAY INDICATIVE OF MATURITY
> 
> JESUS FUCKING CHRIST



I used violence because I couldn't think of the right word for it 

I meant like more action scenes and stuff. Parents usually label it as violence, so I used that term. lol


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 6, 2010)

Well, I didn't mean it at you.  Sorry. 

I just hate the "golly, my incredibly mature self would love to see more pointless violence and gratuitous language like I see in my big boy anime like Bleach and Naruto" crowd.  There's absolutely no reason for that kinda stupid shit.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Well, I didn't mean it at you.  Sorry.
> 
> I just hate the "golly, my incredibly mature self would love to see more pointless violence and gratuitous language like I see in my big boy anime like Bleach and Naruto" crowd.  There's absolutely no reason for that kinda stupid shit.



Ah, okay.

I don't like crude language, which is why I thought Avatar was so awesome. And I don't like Bleach, or Naruto much anymore. :/

I agree, there isn't a need for it. I just want to see more action scenes, that would be awesome! pek 

(especially if its for Earthbenders )


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 6, 2010)

Page 1000, I'm reposting "The Post." Page 1000 will be me, and me alone. Twenty-tuple post.

I shall lock the thread and post at my own pace.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Page 1000, I'm reposting "The Post." Page 1000 will be me, and me alone. Twenty-tuple post.
> 
> *I shall lock the thread and post at my own pace. *



Cheater


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 6, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I think Kishimoto should take notes on how to write a goddamn story.
> 
> His cardboard characterization is the least of his problems--and that says a lot.


Which is odd, since he was so much better in part one. Maybe the real Kishimoto died, and his twin is taking over. But since Masashi's brother hates him, he's flanderizing it


Terra Branford said:


> @Dr. Boskov Krevorkian:
> I think that would be too much for him
> 
> 
> ...


Such a shame, you're a Toph fan, yet don't you know the worst thing you could do to Toph is PITY HER for her blindness?

And besides, she's not poor, she's richer than god. 

...

All of them


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Such a shame, you're a Toph fan, yet don't you know the worst thing you could do to Toph is PITY HER for her blindness?
> 
> And besides, she's not poor, she's richer than god.
> 
> ...



Actually, I was going "Poor Toph" because everyone always teases her and pities her, example being Azula.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 6, 2010)

Except Sokka, because he's her doll.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Except Sokka, because he's her doll.




Toph owns all as property.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 6, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Actually, I was going "Poor Toph" because everyone always teases her and pities her, example being Azula.


She's still the kind of person who would hate being pitied for anything.

Blind or not.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> She's still the kind of person who would hate being pitied for anything.
> 
> Blind or not.



And? I already know this. I'm not giving pity to her because she's blind, but pity to those who think its pitiful to be blind who tease and ridicule her. 

She's gotta deal with them.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 6, 2010)




----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 6, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> [Zuko draws his swords] "Think again. I am going to speak my mind and you are going to listen."
> 
> Now I see why Ozai sat his ass down.



Ozai was all talk anyways 

He thought he was a man or powerful 'cause he beat up on his kid.


----------



## Piekage (Nov 6, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Page 1000, I'm reposting "The Post." Page 1000 will be me, and me alone. Twenty-tuple post.
> 
> I shall lock the thread and post at my own pace.



Abusing your mod-like powers for evil is wrong.

Buuut, I do want to see "The Post" without hunting it down.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 7, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Maybe the real Kishimoto died, and his twin is taking over. But since Masashi's brother hates him, he's flanderizing it



 I wonder....


----------



## Aruarian (Nov 7, 2010)

lolwushu, talk about useless. Unless it's Sanda


----------



## Burke (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Page 1000, I'm reposting "The Post." Page 1000 will be me, and me alone. Twenty-tuple post.
> 
> I shall lock the thread and post at my own pace.



I can respect that, and then i was DDJ to make HIS own 20 page list to counteract yours, and well ahve this big debate 

And then, we shall party.

Im serious about this guys, someones gotta organize this.


----------



## Koi (Nov 7, 2010)

So!



> The New Avatar Series!!!
> By dantebasco
> 
> For all you Avatar: The Last Airbender Fans… I’m talking about to the ones who love the animated series. I just want to give you a heads up… I just recorded an episode today in which I play a character that is a big surprise… (at least it was to me) & I must say it was so great to be back in that world and seeing a bunch of the old crew, including the Director Andrea Romano, the creators Mike DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko… I love you guys. Even seeing our sound engineer, Justin and Shannon in casting was great. Its like a family reunion. I did miss Mae Whitman and sent her a text from the sound booth.
> ...




LET THE SPECULATION BEGIN!



I'm hoping it's the Maiko son or something. :3


----------



## Mider T (Nov 7, 2010)

In the words of Sokka "That warms my heart"


----------



## Mider T (Nov 7, 2010)

I like to think the OotWL was started by Yangchen, it calms me.

Kyoshi is an Earthbender, known to be a proud and stubborn people.  They prefer to do things the direct, confrontational way and I believe that scene was to show that the Avatar was no different.  Aang is the exact opposite since he's an Airbender, hence why he had so much trouble freeing himself from his Air Nomadic morals and taking on duties exclusive to the Avatar.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 7, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did Sokka and Zuko deny performing any significant activity on the day of the eclipse? After what Bumi told them, their stories would have been excellent responses to his, in my mind.



I think it was just meant to be funny man.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 7, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I like to think the OotWL was started by Yangchen, it calms me.



I'm pretty sure that Yeng Chen was the Air Nomad Avatar just before Aang, and I think the OotWL is a lot older than that.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 7, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I'm pretty sure that Yeng Chen was the Air Nomad Avatar just before Aang, and I think the OotWL is a lot older than that.



Yeng Chen lived I would say at least 400 years ago, maybe more. That's not a long time?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 7, 2010)

ElementX said:


> Yeng Chen lived I would say at least 400 years ago, maybe more. That's not a long time?



*Piandao:* "We?re all part of the same *ancient* secret society. A group that transcends the divisions of the 4 nations."

I certainly don't think 400 years qualifies as "ancient". Old yes, ancient no.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 7, 2010)

Though not in the same way, Azula did call Sozin ancient at age 102.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 7, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am in the middle of watching _Sozin's Comet, Part 2: the Old Masters,_ and it is great to see such characters as Pakku, Jeong Jeong, Bumi, and Piandao again! I am so very glad that the storywriters did not forget about them. However, why have only men been shown as members of the Order of the White Lotus? Are there any women in that order at all?
> 
> I see that Aang did not like Kyoshi's advice, but he was very immature to say, "I knew that I shouldn't have asked Kyoshi," because Kyoshi is entitled to have her own worldview, and if Aang does not like, he must accept that it differs from his own. However, I believe that Kyoshi's attitude makes the idea of a tyrannical Avatar (imagine Sozin as the Avatar) more feasible, which is what I wish to do in a fan-fiction story.
> 
> ...


I assumed that they were the closest members of the lotus in proximity to the Gaang at the time. presumably, the other members were off preparing for the invasion, while the ones who knew the Gaang personally, felt it best to coordinate the Gaang in person, and debrief them on stuff; beating out any need to explain and introduce themselves further.

Kyoshi was kind of tyrannical, but, she was a benevolent tyrant, and her actions only served to aid the world. She is argued to be one of the most effective Avatars. Then again, I feel tyrant isn't the right word to express her, I'd say she's more hard hearted, holds her duty as a higher cause, yet mindful of her powers and responsibility. There's only one selfish Avatar that we know of, but he's too goofy of a dude, and lived in a time of peace, so his duty as the avatar wasn't needed much. This allowed him to indulge himself. Still, the Avatar only serves to balance the world, and be the bridge between the spirit realm and the physical world, and it's likely that it's not possible to have an "evil" Avatar per se.

Bumi: Escape I didn?t escape, everybody else escaped. There I was back  in Omashu, waiting for just the right moment. I didn?t know what or when  but I knew I?d know it when I knew it. An eclipse. That would do it.




stab-o-tron5000 said:


> *Piandao:* "We?re all part of the same *ancient* secret society. A group that transcends the divisions of the 4 nations."
> 
> I certainly don't think 400 years qualifies as "ancient". Old yes, ancient no.


Well, are we counting up to the death of Yang Chen, or the moment she founded the lotus?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> I can respect that, and then i was DDJ to make HIS own 20 page list to counteract yours, and well ahve this big debate
> 
> And then, we shall party.
> 
> Im serious about this guys, someones gotta organize this.



No, just me. 

There's no counteracting my post, anyway.




DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did Sokka and Zuko deny performing any significant activity on the day of the eclipse? After what Bumi told them, their stories would have been excellent responses to his, in my mind.











*Spoiler*: __ 



http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle0t9r68ih?from=Main.DontExplainTheJoke
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 7, 2010)

Many universities are 400 years old.
Let's just say I've never heard anyone talk about the ancient University of Amsterdam.

Humans are an entirely different story.

Edit: Oh DDJ, you never cease to amaze me


----------



## CrazyAries (Nov 7, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am in the middle of watching _Sozin's Comet, Part 2: the Old Masters,_ and it is great to see such characters as Pakku, Jeong Jeong, Bumi, and Piandao again! I am so very glad that the storywriters did not forget about them. However, why have only men been shown as members of the Order of the White Lotus? Are there any women in that order at all?
> 
> I see that Aang did not like Kyoshi's advice, but he was very immature to say, "I knew that I shouldn't have asked Kyoshi," because Kyoshi is entitled to have her own worldview, and if Aang does not like, he must accept that it differs from his own. However, I believe that Kyoshi's attitude makes the idea of a tyrannical Avatar (imagine Sozin as the Avatar) more feasible, which is what I wish to do in a fan-fiction story.
> 
> ...



For your first question:  That does not really bother me, as the the story at large is teeming with awesome females in the forefront.  We have Katara, Toph, Suki, Tai Lee, Mei and Azula.  

Also, the story never really shied away from the topic of sexism.  Let's not forget that when Aang, Katara and Sokka visted the Northern Water Tribe, women were relegated as healers and men as fighters.  The Order of the White Lotus could have had such a tradition and started as a men's group.

For your second question, I believe *Mider T* did a good enough job explaining it: 



Mider T said:


> I like to think the OotWL was started by Yangchen, it calms me.
> 
> Kyoshi is an Earthbender, known to be a proud and stubborn people.  They prefer to do things the direct, confrontational way and I believe that scene was to show that the Avatar was no different.  Aang is the exact opposite since he's an Airbender, hence why he had so much trouble freeing himself from his Air Nomadic morals and taking on duties exclusive to the Avatar.



Kyoshi is my favorite incarnation of the Avatar, besides Aang. 

It has been a while since I have seen the finale, so I cannot really help you with your other questions.  Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought there was a flashback showing Bumi overpowering some of his captors.  That could just be my imagination. (Don't bite my head off.)

*Edit:*  I got this exerpt from :



> Bumi would spend several weeks imprisoned in his city, waiting for the right moment to escape. That moment came on the Day of Black Sun. He broke out of his prison by Earthbending with his face. Taking advantage of the Firebender's loss of power, he single-handedly liberated Omashu and destroyed Ozai's statue at the top of the city, sending it sliding down and off the edge of the city, before laughing and taking a bite of Jennomite, retaking his city in minutes. He later joined the Order of the White Lotus at Ba Sing Se.



I do not remember how much of that was shown, but it was an impressive feat for a 112-year-old man to retake his city.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 7, 2010)

DDJ is the kid/alien/robot sidekick of our superhero league.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 7, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> DDJ is the kid/alien/robot sidekick of our superhero league.



. Thats sounds quite right RD, quite right.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 7, 2010)

I highly doubt the Order of the White Lotus is sexist. The main points of it, as Piandao stated is that knowledge belongs to all, not any one nation or gender. So I believe it is more likely that only male members were just shown, rather than only male members existing.

Also, I personally think Kyoshi was the best Avatar. She was a beast!

Oh and, an Avatar being straight up evil, I highly doubt that'll ever happen. But, a well intentioned extremist, that I can see.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 7, 2010)

Out of the previous Avatars, I liked Roku the most, because he was from the Fire Nation, and fire is my favorite element.


----------



## Shade (Nov 7, 2010)

^ Well, by that logic, all of the Firebender Avatars should be your favourite, right? You gotta have a more specific reason than that.

*awaits text storm*


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 7, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes that does seem logical, for it would be unnecessary expenditure of time to introduce further members of the Order of the White Lotus so close to the final battle. I am certain that there are women in the Order, but they simply were not shown.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sure there are failsafes to preventing a selfish Avatar. 

That error is present on even some DVDs, weirdly, it seems like the broadcast episode was the only clean one.

On the contrary, that nets you quite a few benefits. For one, it's unlikely you'll ever die (Unless if you're Jason Todd or something), and you'll always be the unknown quantity that foils a supervillian'(s') successful attempt at restraining the league.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 7, 2010)

> Also, the story never really shied away from the topic of sexism. Let's not forget that when Aang, Katara and Sokka visted the Northern Water Tribe, women were relegated as healers and men as fighters. The Order of the White Lotus could have had such a tradition and started as a men's group.
> 
> For your second question, I believe Mider T did a good enough job explaining it:


That episode made me lol. I think When Katara challeneged Pakku to a fight and he walked passed her saying ''Go back to the healing hut with the other women where you belong''.
___________


> All of this makes sense, but the reason that I am so fascinated by the idea of an evil and tyrannical Avatar is that such an Avatar would be a great contrast to all the previous Avatars who have been shown. And, as I said before, what if the Avatar interpreted their task of bringing balance to the world as necessitating extreme measures or oppressive attitudes? That has happened in actuality (think of the Crusades or religious extremists who believe that they are working to bring balance to the world), so I do not see why it could not happen in this series, either.


It's doubtful that they would interpret things in such a drastically different way. You have to remember that they are essentially reincarnation, granted they have their own identity and lives we know some traits remain consistent due to them picking the same toys at birth.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 7, 2010)

Actually that audio dropout was present in the original broadcast of the finale on Nickelodeon. Just to let you know DDJ, the several million who watched it experienced the same thing.


----------



## Burke (Nov 7, 2010)

Koi said:


> So!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Definetly a son or grandson of zuko. Obvious is obvious 
/speculation


----------



## Wan (Nov 7, 2010)

DemonDragonJ, since you probably don't know this, and some of the other member's don't, I'll just throw this out there-

Avatar Kyoshi founded the Dai Li.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 7, 2010)

Looks like I was right about the Dante thing, or at least it appears to be.

And DDJ you kind of hurt my feelings when you didn't respond to me


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 7, 2010)

> What does that mean? What did I do, this time, to deserve such a response?



You are a very funny man.


You actually remind me a of Karl Pilkington.
Nas
I can totally see DDJ giving us an analysis like that.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> Many universities are 400 years old.
> Let's just say I've never heard anyone talk about the ancient University of Amsterdam.
> 
> Humans are an entirely different story.
> ...



Ancient University of Groningen.


----------



## Burke (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Ancient University of Groningen.



Ancient University of Hogwartz?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 7, 2010)

Durmstrang for the win


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> Ancient University of Hogwartz?



I find this post to be quite perplexing. The subject at the time was that of legitimate real-life collegiate institutions, so I wonder why you would respond with a fictional educational establish, no less one that caters to those students at the secondary level.


----------



## Shɑnɑ (Nov 7, 2010)

Koi said:


> So!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wonder if it will be a grandson of Zuko, I'd like for him to play a character that isn't that much like Zuko this time around.



Mordin Solus said:


> DemonDragonJ, since you probably don't know this, and some of the other member's don't, I'll just throw this out there-
> 
> Avatar Kyoshi founded the Dai Li.



I didn't know that, and I watch the marathons all the time. That's pretty cool.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 7, 2010)

I knew Avatar Kyoshi founded the Dai Li.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

Farfalla. said:


> I wonder if it will be a grandson of Zuko, I'd like for him to play a character that isn't that much like Zuko this time around.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that, and I watch the marathons all the time. That's pretty cool.



It was one of the side comments in one of the Escape from the Spirit World shorts. When I think about it, Kyoshi's was really informative. We learned that she liked to 230, as well.

Can't think of anything else significant from the others, besides that Fire Sage Shyu's grandfather didn't just know Roku, but was his mentor.


----------



## Wan (Nov 7, 2010)

Kuruk's gave his background with his wife and Koh, revealing the Avatar that had girlfriend's face stolen, as Koh had alluded in Siege of the North. But it was kind of pointless because it was just reiterated when Aang talked to Kuruk in Sozin's Comet.


----------



## Burke (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I find this post to be quite perplexing. The subject at the time was that of legitimate real-life collegiate institutions, so I wonder why you would respond with a fictional educational establish, no less one that caters to those students at the secondary level.



Ancient city of middle earth


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Ancient city of middle earth



Is this supposed to mean something? I have been outside of the thread for a few months now, as my post count has noticeably dropped from my usually prolific pace. Did I perhaps stumble upon an in-joke and not recognize it? If so, I am terribly sorry. Sometimes I respond without fully taking the necessary time to assess the climate of the thread. Yes, I do find that to be very humorous, and I shall rep you for that as you seem to valuable rep at an unhealthy level.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 7, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> DemonDragonJ, since you probably don't know this, and some of the other member's don't, I'll just throw this out there-
> 
> Avatar Kyoshi founded the Dai Li.



I was aware of this information as well.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 7, 2010)

Seems Jove's trying to make our friend DDJ feel more at home


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 7, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Ancient city of middle earth


Ancient city in the middle of the Earth.

Holy shit, molemen and morlocks, haul ass everyone.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 7, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Ancient city of middle earth



LOTRs


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 7, 2010)

Goofs.

Goofs, the lot of ya.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Seems Jove's trying to make our friend DDJ feel more at home



Actually, Mider, it happened first in Yuan Dynasty China. Even though the Mongols savagely usurped power, they made overt attempts to emulate the Chinese. The name itself is a giveaway.

The Chinese did everything before everyone. 

Also, hanzi and Wudang chuan and the Three Gorges Dam and yaoi.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Actually, Mider, it happened first in Yuan Dynasty China. Even though the Mongols savagely usurped power, they made overt attempts to emulate the Chinese. The name itself is a giveaway.
> 
> The Chinese did everything before everyone.
> 
> Also, hanzi and Wudang chuan and the Three Gorges Dam and yaoi.


The secret was the sweat and broken backs of the non-consenting 

Times a millionz


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 7, 2010)

Mider T said:


> And DDJ you kind of hurt my feelings when you didn't respond to me



I am very sorry about that, Mider T, so I shall rectify that mistake now.



Mider T said:


> Kyoshi is an Earthbender, known to be a proud and stubborn people. They prefer to do things the direct, confrontational way and I believe that scene was to show that the Avatar was no different. Aang is the exact opposite since he's an Airbender, hence why he had so much trouble freeing himself from his Air Nomadic morals and taking on duties exclusive to the Avatar.



Yes, as I have said, that does make sense to me, but I believe that in every person's life, both in actuality and in a fictional series, that person shall at least once find themselves in a situation where their personal beliefs are challenged and they must act in a manner that is opposed to the essential philosophies around which their entire lives are based. Aang is now finding himself in such a situation, and I wonder if any previous Avatars ever had such difficulty.

As for the detail about Kyoshi founding the _Dai Li,_ I do not recall that fact ever being mentioned in the series itself, but I did read it on the _Wikia_ site for this series, and I like that. It is good to know that not all Avatars are perfect saints, who are unwilling to employ drastic measures to achieve their own goals.



Shade said:


> ^ Well, by that logic, all of the Firebender Avatars should be your favourite, right? You gotta have a more specific reason than that.



I also like how Roku is very calm and collected, unlike Aang, but is not as extreme as Kyoshi, nor as lax regarding his status as Avatar as was Kuruk. Yangchen also can be described as such, except that she was a native airbender, not a firebender, so therefore, I am more fond of Roku than of her.

I finished watching the second of the four episodes of the season finale, and I see that Zuko is finally going to have his final fight with Azula; I actually am more excited about that (if only slightly) than I am about Aang fighting Ozai, mostly because Zuko is my favorite character in the series, Azula also is high on my list of favorite characters, and their fight has been being built up for a significant portion of the series.

I suppose that Katara assisting Zuko will be acceptable; I wish that Zuko would fight Azula alone, as she is his destined opponent, but perhaps Katara will instead fight masses of enemy foot soldiers instead. Conversely, I do believe that Katara has reason to fight Azula as well, as they are (in my opinion) the two primary female characters of this series (I consider Toph to be a very close third after them), and Azula has been a significant antagonist to her and her friends. Seeing a non-firebender fight Azula while Sozin's Comet is in the sky would be interesting to watch, to see if Katara can prove to be a worthy opponent for Azula.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 7, 2010)

The Dai Li weren't always corrupt, I'm sure the Dai Li were an upstanding police force when Kyoshi was still around.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 7, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> As for the detail about Kyoshi founding the _Dai Li,_ I do not recall that fact ever being mentioned in the series itself, but I did read it on the _Wikia_ site for this series, and I like that. It is good to know that not all Avatars are perfect saints, who are unwilling to employ drastic measures to achieve their own goals.



I like how Avatar Kyoshi acted about the death of Chin the Conqueror. She's my favorite because she was different.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

I'd like to know more about the previous Fire Avatar that did _this_:


----------



## Mider T (Nov 7, 2010)

Excellent use of firebending and earthbending.  Aang saw this vision, so I wonder, had he not been fearing for his life, could he have bended the lava at the forest?


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I'd like to know more about the previous Fire Avatar that did _this_:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



I think its time I rewatch...'cause I don't remember this at all.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I'd like to know more about the previous Fire Avatar that did _this_:



Well Avatar Kyoshi was able to move a large section of the earth which led to that guys death. If the guy was good at Earth bending it should be within his capabilities to move the plates under the earth to create the pressure needed for eruption?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

The physics of Magmabending is one of the more open debates they left us. If that Avatar was able to do so, why couldn't Roku? Was it old age? Is it possible to bend the lava outward, but supremely more difficult to suppress it? Was it simply his proximity to the toxic fumes?


I think it's one of the more peculiar things about the show's mythology.




Gunners said:


> Well Avatar Kyoshi was able to move a large section of the earth which led to that guys death. If the guy was good at Earth bending it should be within his capabilities to move the plates under the earth to create the pressure needed for eruption?



Yet another aspect. What are the particulars of Magmabending, and is Tectonic Plate bending feasible? I'd imagine it'd be pretty centralized, but there's no way Roku couldn't do it.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm inclined to believe it would have been too dangerous for a volcano that has already erupted (meaning he'd try to stop the eruption while rerouting the different flows of lava) and to protect the village with power that great and dangerous.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 7, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> The Dai Li weren't always corrupt, I'm sure the Dai Li were an upstanding police force when Kyoshi was still around.



Yes, but that is a phenomenon that occurs in reality, and unfortunately, far too frequently, in my opinion, so I believe that it is good that this series is referencing the real world. The 1st Baron Acton of England is reported to have said (paraphrased), "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." I myself do not agree with that philosophy, but I do concede that it does have some merit in certain situations, and the _Dai Li_ and their leader, Long Feng, may be an excellent example of its validity.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> The physics of Magmabending is one of the more open debates they left us. If that Avatar was able to do so, why couldn't Roku? Was it old age? Is it possible to bend the lava outward, but supremely more difficult to suppress it? Was it simply his proximity to the toxic fumes?



I like to believe it was because of his age and the fumes...but wasn't he the best Firebender Avatar?


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 7, 2010)

Roku was getting old, and he was breathing in the toxic fumes from the volcano. Not to mention he didn't use the Avatar State. Even so, he was doing just fine on his own, I'd say the fumes are mainly what did him in.

Would Lavabending be a mix of Earthbending, Firebending, and Waterbending?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> The physics of Magmabending is one of the more open debates they left us. If that Avatar was able to do so, why couldn't Roku? Was it old age? Is it possible to bend the lava outward, but supremely more difficult to suppress it? Was it simply his proximity to the toxic fumes?
> 
> I think it's one of the more peculiar things about the show's mythology.
> 
> Yet another aspect. What are the particulars of Magmabending, and is Tectonic Plate bending feasible? I'd imagine it'd be pretty centralized, but there's no way Roku couldn't do it.



I believe that bending magma would require both firebending and earthbending, so either only the Avatar could perform such a feat, or a team of a firebender and an earth bender would need to work in synchronization to achieve it. Magma is molten rock (for example, in the _Dungeons & Dragons_ role-playing game, a magma elemental is compsoed of both tthe elements of earth and fire), so I imagine that bending only one element would not be sufficient.



Level7N00b said:


> Would Lavabending be a mix of Earthbending, Firebending, and Waterbending?



Lava and magma do not contain any water, so waterbending would be irrelevant and unnecessary in manipulating it, at least from my perspective.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 7, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Would Lavabending be a mix of Earthbending, Firebending, and Waterbending?


That's what I always thought. It would definitely require Earthbending


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I like to believe it was because of his age and the fumes...but wasn't he the best Firebender Avatar?



Who knows? The previous one could apparently Magmabend the fuck out of volcanos. 

In The Southern Air Temple, we saw that there have been a _lot_ of Avatars before Aang, enough to spiral to the peak of the temple. At least several thousands of years worth of generations... there are quite a few Avatars to consider in your power rankings.


Side note: Magmabending is an amalgam of Earthbending and Firebending, exclusive only to Avatars.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 7, 2010)

gotta love it!


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 7, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Who knows? The previous one could apparently Magmabend the fuck out of volcanos.
> 
> In The Southern Air Temple, we saw that there have been a _lot_ of Avatars before Aang, enough to spiral to the peak of the temple. At least several thousands of years worth of generations... there are quite a few Avatars to consider in your power rankings.
> 
> ...



Hmm...I thought I heard somewhere that Roku was the most powerful Firebender and from that, I always asked myself "Why didn't he bend the lava?"

Wait...didn't he bend the lava in the caves below his tower?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

I still don't understand why regular Earthbenders are not able to bend lava/magma, but hey, it's Mike and Bryan's mythos.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 7, 2010)

I believe Roku also showed Magmabending in The Winter Solstice Ep.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 7, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> I believe Roku also showed Magmabending in The Winter Solstice Ep.



Exactly!

Did he Magmabend the tunnels?


----------



## The Potential (Nov 7, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Did he Magmabend the tunnels?



No. He used Earthbending on the floor to open it, then he shot the Magma from it. Inturn that pretty much destroyed the temple on that island, if my memory serves me correctly.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 7, 2010)

Shyu noted that he carved out the underground tunnels, and he destroyed the temple in a display of ferocious powers. It was actually the first display of that kind of bending.

Then we saw the penultimate Fire Avatar perform that ridiculous move, and then Kyoshi used the technique to separate Kyoshi Island. Roku bookended it in Avatar and the Fire Lord.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 8, 2010)

So the magma tunnels I saw...weren't made by Roku? Man, I'm confused T.T

I really need to rewatch, but I don't own a DVD player anymore to play my DVDs (plus the audio...horrible!) and the online stuff I've found is horrible.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> So the magma tunnels I saw...weren't made by Roku? Man, I'm confused T.T
> 
> I really need to rewatch, but I don't own a DVD player anymore to play my DVDs (plus the audio...horrible!) and the online stuff I've found is horrible.



Does your comp/laptop not have a DVD player?


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 8, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Does your comp/laptop not have a DVD player?



It does, but I lack a graphics card and when I put it in, it crashed my PC 

Anyone have any good sites to watch? Mine sucks...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> So the magma tunnels I saw...weren't made by Roku? Man, I'm confused T.T
> 
> I really need to rewatch, but I don't own a DVD player anymore to play my DVDs (plus the audio...horrible!) and the online stuff I've found is horrible.



No, no. Roku carved them out while he was alive. And then, as a Spirit, through Aang, he destroyed the temple. 

One thing that I wonder... did he use the Avatar State to do something as innocuous as carve out those tunnels. Or is Magmabending possible outside of the Avatar State? Because if it is, we never saw it. In fact, the picture I posted always suggested to me that they were linked, but maybe not.



Terra Branford said:


> It does, but I lack a graphics card and when I put it in, it crashed my PC
> 
> Anyone have any good sites to watch? Mine sucks...



Link removed


----------



## The Potential (Nov 8, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> One thing that I wonder... did he use the Avatar State to do something as innocuous as carve out those tunnels. Or is Magmabending possible outside of the Avatar State? Because if it is, we never saw it. In fact, the picture I posted always suggested to me that they were linked, but maybe not.



Based on what we have seen, Im inclined to believe that Magmabending is something only made possible when in the Avatar State.

When we first saw it used, Roku was indeed in the Avatar State, then once again with the unamed Fire Avatar. I believe Kyoshi used it to seperate the island, she was also in the Avatar State. Lastly, Roku uses it once more In The Avatar and The Firelord Ep to break the Magma free from the volcano.

All signs point to it.


----------



## Wan (Nov 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Hmm...I thought I heard somewhere that Roku was the most powerful Firebender and from that, I always asked myself "Why didn't he bend the lava?"
> 
> Wait...didn't he bend the lava in the caves below his tower?



He did, and he in fact held down the whole second eruption while Sozin drained the heat from it.  It's just that holding it down like that wasn't enough- he needed a permanent solution to redirect or seal the lava, one that didn't involve him just standing there until the end of time.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 8, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> He did, and he in fact held down the whole second eruption while Sozin drained the heat from it.  It's just that holding it down like that wasn't enough- he needed a permanent solution to redirect or seal the lava, one that didn't involve him just standing there until the end of time.



Ah yes, I forgot about Roku doing that. Well, that changes my views on Magmabending now because when Roku did that, he was not in The Avatar State.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 8, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> No, no. Roku carved them out while he was alive. And then, as a Spirit, through Aang, he destroyed the temple.
> 
> One thing that I wonder... did he use the Avatar State to do something as innocuous as carve out those tunnels. Or is Magmabending possible outside of the Avatar State? Because if it is, we never saw it. In fact, the picture I posted always suggested to me that they were linked, but maybe not.
> 
> ...



Carved them out? Did he do with with Magmabending, or something else?

Ah, thank you for the link, Jove!


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

You dont need the AS to bend different elements at the same time do you?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 8, 2010)

But he did go into the Avatar State by then...


----------



## The Potential (Nov 8, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> You dont need the AS to bend different elements at the same time do you?



At first I thought so, but after recalling my memory with a little help from *Mordin*, Roku achieved this feat without The Avatar State.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 8, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> At first I thought so, but after recalling my memory with a little help from *Mordin*, Roku achieved this feat without The Avatar State.



He did....?

Wow, that's it. I really -- really -- need to watch. I'm starting tonight instead of tomorrow.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> He did....?
> 
> Wow, that's it. I really -- really -- need to watch. I'm starting tonight instead of tomorrow.



Don't take my word for it, I could very well be wrong. Perhaps I don't fully understand how The Avatar State works.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> At first I thought so, but after recalling my memory with a little help from *Mordin*, Roku achieved this feat without The Avatar State.



AS draws on all the power and expertise you have from your past lives into that moment so you would be very powerful. 

But you can bend different elements quickly in succession and perhaps elements at the same time without AS, as long as you have had mastered bending in those arts imo.


----------



## Koi (Nov 8, 2010)




----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 8, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I believe that bending magma would require both firebending and earthbending, so either only the Avatar could perform such a feat, or a team of a firebender and an earth bender would need to work in synchronization to achieve it. Magma is molten rock (for example, in the _Dungeons & Dragons_ role-playing game, a magma elemental is compsoed of both tthe elements of earth and fire), so I imagine that bending only one element would not be sufficient.
> 
> 
> 
> Lava and magma do not contain any water, so waterbending would be irrelevant and unnecessary in manipulating it, at least from my perspective.


I think what L7N means, is that, since molten rock is in a liquid state, that the usage of Waterbending is best suited to manipulate the dynamically fluid state of the magma/lava.


H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Who knows? The previous one could apparently Magmabend the fuck out of volcanos.
> 
> In The Southern Air Temple, we saw that there have been a _lot_ of Avatars before Aang, enough to spiral to the peak of the temple. At least several thousands of years worth of generations... there are quite a few Avatars to consider in your power rankings.
> 
> ...


Or at least a minimum of one firebender, and one earthbender working in tandem.


Terra Branford said:


> Hmm...I thought I heard somewhere that Roku was the most powerful Firebender and from that, I always asked myself "Why didn't he bend the lava?"
> 
> Wait...didn't he bend the lava in the caves below his tower?



It could be that one can still be one of the most powerful bender of one element, yet not know a skill other benders know. 

Being the most powerful bender of one element doesn't necessarily mean they have knowledge of every skill under their style.

As for Roku fighting that volcano, I think it's a combination of urgency, and not making the thing seem cheap storywise.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 8, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Or at least a minimum of one firebender, and one earthbender working in tandem.



See, now this is interesting. We know that there is a sort of spiritual inhibitor that prevents everyone but the Avatar from bending more than one element. But is there something that would prevent the merging of two or more elemental disciplines by people working in tandem?

I'm leaning towards yes.

I mean, technically we saw Toph and Katara Sluurybend. But slurry is just rock and water. As far as elements in different forms... I don't know. I still say magma should strictly Earthbending. If Waterbenders can freeze _and_ melt ice/evaporate water, Earthbenders should be able to melt rock.


----------



## Wan (Nov 8, 2010)

Hmm...no, I don't think it would work that way.  Waterbending is control over a single molecule- H2O- and its various physical states.  Earthbending is the control over various molecules and atoms in the solid state that falls under "earth".  Take that out of its solid state, and the earthbender can no longer control it.  Just to illustrate, you wouldn't say that an airbender can bend liquid and frozen oxygen, now would you?


----------



## Shade (Nov 8, 2010)

^ What Mordin said.

I think Mike and Bryan can be excused for this little inconsistency because they achieved what they were going for in that scene, which is that Fire Avatar looking like a badass mofo.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> I mean, technically we saw Toph and Katara Sluurybend. But slurry is just rock and water. As far as elements in different forms... I don't know. I still say magma should strictly Earthbending. If Waterbenders can freeze _and_ melt ice/evaporate water, Earthbenders should be able to melt rock.



Not neccessarily, water as an element can easily change from solid, liquid to gas relatively easy around the natural envvironment. 

However it is much more rare to find melting/liquid rock and therefore would be much more diffiuclt for earthbenders to create/control such a state of rock.  I mean they can literally erect solid walls of earth/rock or make them topple and crumble down to pebbles and dirt, thats cool enough I say.

But think about this, does a firebender heat  water or melt ice the same a waterbender would....?


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 8, 2010)

> However it is much more rare to find melting/liquid rock and therefore would be much more diffiuclt for earthbenders to create/control such a state of rock.



That makes no sense.
So if people lived within the earth waterbenders couldn't bend ice and earthbenders could bend magma?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 8, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Hmm...no, I don't think it would work that way.  Waterbending is control over a single molecule- H2O- and its various physical states.  Earthbending is the control over various molecules and atoms in the solid state that falls under "earth".  Take that out of its solid state, and the earthbender can no longer control it.  Just to illustrate, you wouldn't say that an airbender can bend liquid and frozen oxygen, now would you?



I would.

Bending is spiritual control of an element, and it's properties. I don't see it as a molecular manipulation at all. It's entirely conceptual.

But it _is_ control over the complete nature of the element. Benders do not bend "liquid," or "solid."* So if there is liquid oxygen, yes, an Airbender should be able to manipulate it.



Waking Dreamer said:


> But think about this, does a firebender heat  water or melt ice the same a waterbender would....?



Now that is an intriguing thought. I'm going to say no, based on what I just said. Firebenders are using heat from their element, Waterbenders are controlling the element itself.


*Firebenders might be able to bend "heat," but just like bloodbending I don't even like to acknowledge that little Book 3 addition.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> That makes no sense.
> So if people lived within the earth waterbenders couldn't bend ice and earthbenders could bend magma?



The very nature of water is that it can change from the different states much easier than rock/earth. It takes much less energy to change water into steam or ice into water. 

How much energy must there be placed into earth/rock to make it melt? Much more energy than melting ice or turning water into steam...still with me...?

How often do you find flowing rivers of magma compared to flowing rivers of water? How much easier is to maintain the state of lava compared to the various states of water within the enviornments where benders live? Thats why waterbenders can bend the different states of water easier than the earthbenders forcing rock to change state as well...

Was it that hard to understand....?


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 8, 2010)

Why are you talking like I'm retarded?
How about you don't post things completely wrong next time?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 8, 2010)

I am currently watching _Sozin's Comet. Part 3: Into the Inferno,_ and I see that Azula has grown quite accustomed to her new position as the Fire Lord very quickly. I see that she wasted no time in remodeling the throne room to better match her personality, but why do the blue flames appear to be darker than the orange flames that were there before? Azula's comment to one of her servants while they were grooming her about "leaving a pit in my [her] cherry" makes me wonder if Azula has her servants perform any other "services" for her.  Seriously, that would be completely in line with her personality; can anyone else here imagine Azula wearing a skimpy leather outfit, wielding a whip, and being domineering toward her servants and/or prisoners? I certainly can. 

Conversely, I see that Azula is becoming paranoid and distrustful of all her servants, even if they actually are loyal to her. I see that Mai and Ty Lee's betrayal has left her wondering if anyone else who was apparently loyal to her is actually conspiring against her. Her vision of her mother, Ursa, was also an excellent twist to the story, and it seems to support my idea that there was tension between the two of them just as there was between Zuko and Ozai. After everything that has occurred, and everything that has been revealed about her, it seems to me that Azula is not truly evil, as is Ozai, but simply mentally unstable and very violent. I cannot wait to see her fight against Zuko and Katara.

That was the main highlight of the episode to me, but it was also very good to see Zuko and Iroh re-unite and learning that Iroh was not angry with Zuko. I also liked how Toph formed a suit of armor around herself with the metal door on the airship, and the fact that she needed to use her bending every second to move it was even more impressive. Sokka's plan to commandeer and airship was awesome, but how could the workers on it be so unintelligent as to be fooled by his ploy? They are at war, so why would the captain be celebrating someone's birthday?

Where are Haru, Hakoda, Teo, the Duke, and Chit Sang? They departed in _The Western Air Temple_ and have not appeared since. This is the second-to-final episode of the entire series, and it would be very unfortunate if their final appearance was an undignified and un-dramatic exit through a stone wall. I hope that they appear again, soon.

I was wondering something else: does Sozin's Comet enhance the firebending of an Avatar whose native element is not fire, such as Aand, Kuruk, or Kyoshi? Does it enhance lightning generation and redirection, as well? And will a solar or lunar eclipse prevent the avatar from using fire-or water-bending?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I was wondering something else: does Sozin's Comet enhance the firebending of an Avatar whose native element is not fire, such as Aand, Kuruk, or Kyoshi? Does it enhance lightning generation and redirection, as well? And will a solar or lunar eclipse prevent the avatar from using fire-or water-bending?



The comet and moon should enhance all firebenders and waterbenders respectively. 

Even if its not the current Avatars native element, the nature of being the Avatar makes them also a firbeneder and a waterbender and therefore should get the boost.



Nodonn said:


> Why are you talking like I'm retarded?
> How about you don't post things completely wrong next time?



My last post was just an elaboration of my previous post there is no difference. If you find something completely wrong with what I posted I can only see it as that you STILL dont get it....

Unless you which to enlighten me on my completely wrong logic...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 8, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> The comet and moon should enhance all firebenders and waterbenders respectively.
> 
> Even if its not the current Avatars native element, the nature of being the Avatar makes them also a firbeneder and a waterbender and therefore should get the boost.



Yes, that is what I imagined, but I wanted to be certain about it.

I just reached the end of _Into the Inferno_ and started _Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang,_ and now Ozai's voice is more distinctive, and it does sound similar to the voice of the Joker in _Batman: the Animated Series_ (both characters are voiced by Mark Hamill); I like that. While the Joker will forever be Mark Hamill's greatest voice role, in my mind, Ozai is also an excellent role for him, as well.

When Azula fired lightning at Katara, how was Zuko able to intercept it? Lightning moves at 22,000 miles per hour, and I highly doubt that Zuko can move that fast. Should I accept that occurrence as being necessary for dramatic effect? And if Ozai, Azula, and Jeong Jeong can use fire to propel themselves and fly, why not Zuko, as well? Is that simply not characteristic for him?

At last, I have reached the final episode of the series; I am so excited about it! I am hoping for an epic grand finale to this awesome series!


----------



## Mider T (Nov 8, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Conversely, I see that Azula is becoming paranoid and distrustful of all her servants, even if they actually are loyal to her. I see that Mai and Ty Lee's betrayal has left her wondering if anyone else who was apparently loyal to her is actually conspiring against her. Her vision of her mother, Ursa, was also an excellent twist to the story, and it seems to support my idea that there was tension between the two of them just as there was between Zuko and Ozai. After everything that has occurred, and everything that has been revealed about her, it seems to me that Azula is not truly evil, as is Ozai, but simply mentally unstable and very violent. I cannot wait to see her fight against Zuko and Katara.



I think Iroh said it best- "She's crazy and she needs to go down".  Seriously, Azula isn't just evil...there's something wrong with her upstairs.  Besides the obvious sign of a sociopath she makes efforts to be nearer to Zuko when he's already on her side, reveals things that won't benefit her in the slightest, and generally just toys around with people and their emotions.



> Where are Haru, Hakoda, Teo, the Duke, and Chit Sang? They departed in _The Western Air Temple_ and have not appeared since. This is the second-to-final episode of the entire series, and it would be very unfortunate if their final appearance was an undignified and un-dramatic exit through a stone wall. I hope that they appear again, soon.



They'll be back but I'm pretty sure they're helping out in their own way.


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

> When Azula fired lightning at Katara, how was Zuko able to intercept it? Lightning moves at 22,000 miles per hour, and I highly doubt that Zuko can move that fast. Should I accept that occurrence as being necessary for dramatic effect? And if Ozai, Azula, and Jeong Jeong can use fire to propel themselves and fly, why not Zuko, as well? Is that simply not characteristic for him?



Its possible if Zuko started running before Azula fired the lightning - and this is the Avatarverse, the elements are more in fused with chi than our 'science." So its not really our world lightning with all its associated properties...


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## Koi (Nov 8, 2010)

I'm.. kinda gonna take a shot in the dark and say that.. you know, normal, real-world physics don't apply in the Avatar world?


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 8, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Azula's comment to one of her servants while they were grooming her about "leaving a pit in my [her] cherry" makes me wonder if Azula has her servants perform any other "services" for her.  Seriously, that would be completely in line with her personality; can anyone else here imagine Azula in a skimpy leather outfit, wielding a whip, and being domineering toward her servants and/or prisoners? I certainly can.


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## Mider T (Nov 8, 2010)

It makes me sad to see that DDJ is at the end of the series, no more reviews


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 8, 2010)

> Seriously, that would be completely in line with her personality; can anyone else here imagine Azula in a skimpy leather outfit, wielding a whip, and being domineering toward her servants and/or prisoners? I certainly can.



She did say something along the lines of, "Suki being her favourite to play with." :amazed

searches for Suki and Azula fanart:ho


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## Burke (Nov 8, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> The physics of Magmabending is one of the more open debates they left us. If that Avatar was able to do so, why couldn't Roku? Was it old age? Is it possible to bend the lava outward, but supremely more difficult to suppress it? Was it simply his proximity to the toxic fumes?
> 
> 
> I think it's one of the more peculiar things about the show's mythology.
> ...



Must spread rep before giving it to H. P. Jovecraft again 

@DDJ you know, there is this one slashfic where azula and katara...


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 8, 2010)

N??ps said:


> @DDJ you know, there is this one slashfic where azula and katara...



And femslash pics of TyZula.


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## Burke (Nov 8, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> And femslash pics of TyZula.



Oh ho ho i know the one


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## Terra Branford (Nov 8, 2010)

After watching 10 episodes straight (skipped two because oddly, they would not start on that site), I couldn't help but think about all the shows whose movement is not as fluid as Avatar was....


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## Koi (Nov 8, 2010)

A smaller budget means less money can be spent on animation.  The budget for Avatar was clearly a lot, especially toward the end, as the animation gets better and better.  Even the first few episodes are visibly choppy, with few inbetweens.


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## Terra Branford (Nov 8, 2010)

Oh...I thought it was because they were really good 

I saw some Naruto episodes (or was it movies?) were the fluid motion was almost as good. lol


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 8, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Its possible if Zuko started running before Azula fired the lightning - and this is the Avatarverse, the elements are more in fused with chi than our 'science." So its not really our world lightning with all its associated properties...


Plus, I don't think it's as powerful as natural lightning. Even in our modern times, we still can't produce an electric arc anywhere near as powerful as real lightning.

I'm guessing it's as powerful as an arc from a Tesla coil, imbued with kung fu magic.

I mean, not magic, Bending isn't regarded as magic in the series.


Mider T said:


> It makes me sad to see that DDJ is at the end of the series, no more reviews


Lets take a note from the Justice League, wipe his mind like Dr. Light and Batman.


H.P. Jovecraft said:


> And femslash pics of TyZula.


I know at least one of them has a dickgirl


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 8, 2010)

Except the now five episodes of Book 1 that would play and the seven (including The Blind Bandit T.T) that won't load for me, I'm currently on The Serpent's Pass. Its going really slow, but there is a lot I forgot about this episode xD

Really good. lol


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## Burke (Nov 8, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I know at least one of them has a dickgirl



I know the one


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## The Potential (Nov 8, 2010)

DDJ has reached Avatars end. Now it is time to release my set!

Signature, you are now freed from your Spoiler restrictions! Let loose your awesome glory!!!


----------



## Shade (Nov 8, 2010)

I still think bending is something you can't really analyse too much in the given context because it's inconsistent. The idea of the the four bendable 'elements' is already too scientifically inaccurate to set out clear lines for what can and can't be bent, even by the show's rules. And applying further scientific analysis such as molecular properties of each isn't worth much either.


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## Superstarseven (Nov 8, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Oh...I thought it was because they were really good
> 
> I saw some Naruto episodes (or was it movies?) were the fluid motion was almost as good. lol



Probably the films. Those are how I got into Naruto in the first place. 
I suppose that seeing a standalone flick, independent of any story arc contained within the show, really helped me to get into that world. The show doesn't have any season breaks so it would be like taking Avatar's $20million and spreading it over 35 episodes. It's something nutty like that, I don't have the exact numbers. Animation is held back but they'll try and go all out if it's an important fight scene.


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## Wan (Nov 9, 2010)

Indeed...in the DVD commentary by Bryke on "Sozin's Comet", they talked about how the animation studio over in Korea really wanted to go all out for the show's finale, as a sendoff to the show they enjoyed working on.  They didn't just make sure the animation quality was as good as they could make it, but they also added various details to the imagery that they were not asked to.  For example, it was the animation studio's idea to put in a large amount of smoke coming from the forest as Ozai burned it down.


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## ElementX (Nov 9, 2010)

There are some notable Naruto episodes where the animation is incredibly slick and fluid. 

Lee vs. Gaara
Naruto vs. Sasuke 
Sakura and Chiyo vs. Sasori and his puppet army 

Just to name a few


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## ElementX (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> As a matter of fact, I asked if I could start a thread for erotic material of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ in the _Konoha Bathhouse_ sub-forum, but my request was denied because too many characters in the series are very young. I was very displeased by that decree, but I shall tolerate, for this is the internet, and if I search thoroughly, I can find anything that I seek.



 More power to you man.

Thanks for the reviews though DDJ, brought me back to why I love this series so much.


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## Wan (Nov 9, 2010)

*edit* Nevermind, misread...



> Did Toph ever reconcile with her parents? Did u and Xin Fu ever escape from the coffin in which Toph trapped them? What happened to Long Feng and the _Dai Li?_ What happened to Longshot and Smellerbee? Most importantly, did Zuko ever learn what happened to Ursa? I wonder if there will ever be supplemental materials that provide the answer to that last question?



The creators of Avatar wanted to deal with Zuko's mother in some kind of post-series animated special, but that never happened.  Hopefully we'll see a resolution of that plotline in "Legend of Korra".



> Can other people, apart from the Avatar, use energybending? I would imagine so, as the Lion Turtle said that it predates the Avatar. If one loses their ability to bend, can it be restored by the Avatar? Can a person recover their bending ability themselves? Can the Avatar give a person the ability to bend an additional element, or replace the element that they can bend? Can a non-bender gain the ability to bend, from either themselves or the Avatar? I imagine that if the answer to any of these questions is "yes," then there may be nearly-limitless possibilities for what can be achieved.



Possibly, and possibly not.  Since it predates the Avatar, then it follows that one does not have to be the Avatar in order to energybend.  However, it is possible that energybending as a whole was removed from the population when the Avatar came to be, limiting everyone to bending the elements.  Thus, a waterbender would not be able to energybend any more than he would be able to firebend.  The Avatar is still capable of learning energybending, though, because all forms of bending are open to the Avatar.

As for using energybending to give a person the ability to bend as well as take it away, we do not know.  I would certainly say it fits in with the concept of energybending, but we have no proof of the ability.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 9, 2010)

Well one part I thought they missed out on is Zuko and Sokka sword sparring in the temple. It was basically foreshadowed when Sokka was teasing Zuko about training Aang especially since he had his sword on his back while he did it!

It was a good opportunity for Zuko to call out Sokka and have him put "his sword where his mouth is" and to have some decent fighting action that didnt involve FN mooks...


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## Wan (Nov 9, 2010)

A Sokka vs. Zuko swordfight would have been


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 9, 2010)

Sokka and Zuko did have a swordfight...


In the comics.


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 9, 2010)

Yeah, Sokka learning to use the sword was his way of getting stronger as everyone else was training and lerning new abilities like metalbening, bloddbending, lightning redirecting, AS etc. 

I wanted to see his new skills put to the test...!



H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Sokka and Zuko did have a swordfight...
> 
> 
> In the comics.



Who won?


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 9, 2010)

H.P. Jovecraft said:


> Sokka and Zuko did have a swordfight...
> 
> 
> In the comics.



Wattt? :amazed

Comics? >.<

Who won? Sokka, right?


----------



## Wan (Nov 9, 2010)

The comic was supposed to be in another all-Avatar Nickmag, but to my knowledge Nickmag was canceled so the comic was never published.


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 9, 2010)

It should have been like this:

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 9, 2010)

Well, Energybending isn't a godhax thing, Aang nearly lost when he used it on Ozai


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Second, while the appearance of the Lion Turtle was foreshadowed more than once, I believe that the ability to use energybending was definitely a _deus ex machina_/"asspull" that allowed Aang to escape from a moral predicament. *There had been no foreshadowing or hint of its existence at all*,


See Huu of the Foggy Swamp Tribe and Guru Pathik with Appa.


> and I also believe that it was actually a fate worse than death for Ozai. I feel that it would have been far more merciful to have killed Ozai than leaving him alive and powerless, because, unlike Azula, I believe that he does not have the potential to redeem himself, and I believe in being merciful to even one's greatest enemies.


Meh, either side could be seen as "merciful."


> Additionally, energybending makes the Avatar even more over-powered than before,


How so? It's a physical battle of wills basically. Ozai even almost beats out Aang.


> Did Toph ever reconcile with her parents?


That is the assumption. She does have Katara send Hawky with a note to her parents.


> Can other people, apart from the Avatar, use energybending?


Seeing as how the Lion Turtle mentions how the art predates the Avatar and how Huu and Pathik use similar techniques, I would assume that yes, others can Energybend.

If anything, Energybending is similar to basic Firebending and to healing with Waterbending.


----------



## Nimander (Nov 9, 2010)

I'm glad I'm not the only person who saw the "spiritbending" as an asspull.  

Maybe I didn't catch the foreshadowing from earlier seasons that other fans have pointed out were there.  But when that solution came about, it just felt so...cheap that it ruined Aang's resolution in the story for me. 

His storyline was and forever will be the one I enjoyed the least out of parallel stories told in the finale.  Zuko-Azula was WAY more enjoyable, with Sokka-Toph following directly behind.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 9, 2010)

A sword fight would have been tight. Especially since Sokka was so outclassed the first time he fought Zuko.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 9, 2010)

Sokka is the Batman of Avatar


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 9, 2010)

I forgot to mention in my previous that I liked how Ty Lee joined the Kyoshi warriors; I am certain that she will fit in very well with them.

Is Mai now the fire lady, if Zuko is the fire lord? What about Sokka and Suki? if they are to remain together, one of them will need to move to the other's homeland, and the same is true for Aang and Katara.

At the end of Aang and Ozai's fight, if Ozai ahd not attempted to attack Aang one final time, is it possible that Aang would not have used energybending on him? What would have happened if Aang had lost the battle of wills against Ozai?

I happened to find this image on _Encyclopedia Dramatica,_and I thought that I would post it here, because I found it to be highly amusing, and a reminder that the creators of a fictional series do not need to obey the whims and desires of their fans.



ElementX said:


> A sword fight would have been tight. Especially since Sokka was so outclassed the first time he fought Zuko.



If I recall correctly, the only time that Sokka and Zuko have directly fought each other is in the first episode, when Zuko invaded Sokka's village.

Another mystery that I forgot to mention above was the fate of Sokka's sword and boomerang; did he ever recover them? If not, perhaps they shall become legendary relics for the next generation of adventurers in _Avatar: the Legend of Korra?_ Does anyone here believe that that would be an interesting plot twist?

On that subject, I doubt that any mention of Zuko pursuing his mother will be made in _Avatar: the Legend of Korra,_ for three reasons: first, that series is set seventy-five years after this one, so it is likely that both of them shall be dead by that time, so their story will likely not be relevant by that time; second, the series will be only twelve episodes in duration, which I believe is insufficient time, when combined with the next reason; and third, the series shall focus on Korra, and with only twelve episodes, I imagine that nearly all of those episodes shall focus on Korra herself, with little space available for any other characters.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Sokka is the Batman of Avatar



I agree with this, except that Batman is ultra-serious, and never displays any sense of humor at all, unlike Sokka, who very frequently makes jokes or sarcastic remarks.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I forgot to mention in my previous that I liked how Ty Lee joined the Kyoshi warriors; I am certain that she will fit in very well with them.
> 
> Is Mai now the fire lady, if Zuko is the fire lord? What about Sokka and Suki? if they are to remain together, one of them will need to move to the other's homeland, and the same is true for Aang and Katara.
> 
> ...


Dead? No way, the lifespan of benders in Avatar are pretty long. 

And even if they were dead, that still wouldn't stop the closure of Zuko's search. They could easily say that Zuko found her by word of a relative or friend.


----------



## Muk (Nov 9, 2010)

maybe when they do a flashback with korra learning firebending

that's when they show zuko's closure


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I forgot to mention in my previous that I liked how Ty Lee joined the Kyoshi warriors; I am certain that she will fit in very well with them.
> 
> Is Mai now the fire lady, if Zuko is the fire lord? What about Sokka and Suki? if they are to remain together, one of them will need to move to the other's homeland, and the same is true for Aang and Katara.
> 
> ...


Sokka is Nightwing/Dick Grayson with Batman's smarts


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 9, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Sokka is Nightwing/Dick Grayson with Batman's smarts



I must disagree; Sokka is intelligent, but I doubt that he is anywhere close to Batman's level of intelligence. Batman is a super-genius who can prepare for virtually any scenario (see the "crazy prepared" trope at _TV Tropes),_ while Sokka demonstrated a lack of plans more than once.

How does everyone here imagine that this series will be remembered in five, ten, or more years from now? Will it be immortalized as one of the greatest examples of western animation, as are _Batman: the Animated Series_ or the _Gargoyles_ series, or will it vanish into obscurity, as have _Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys_ and _Reboot_ (which is very unfortunate)?


----------



## Mider T (Nov 9, 2010)

I disagree with that.  I sure as hell don't think of TMNT when I think of classic cartoons, but I do think of Gargoyles.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 9, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I disagree with that.  I sure as hell don't think of TMNT when I think of classic cartoons, but I do think of Gargoyles.



I am very glad to hear that, as _Gargoyles_ is one of my favorite western animated series, second only to _Reboot._ I actually have seen very few episodes of the 1987 _TMNT_ series, and none at all of the 2003 series.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:
			
		

> How does everyone here imagine that this series will be remembered in five, ten, or more years from now? Will it be immortalized as one of the greatest examples of western animation, as are _Batman: the Animated Series_ or the 1987 _Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles_ series, or will it vanish into obscurity, as have _Gargoyles_ and _Reboot_ (which is very unfortunate)?



I thought Gargoyles was held in high regard similarly to Batman:TAS?

And Rebbot was great!

The franchise will continue in Korra so it wont be forgotten easily.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How does everyone here imagine that this series will be remembered in five, ten, or more years from now? *Will it be immortalized as one of the greatest examples of western animation,* as are _Batman: the Animated Series_ or the 1987 _Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles_ series, or will it vanish into obscurity, as have _Gargoyles_ and _Reboot_ (which is very unfortunate)?



Considering how active this, as well as a lot of other Avatar related communities, still are 2 years after the finale. Yes, I'd say that's a fairly good assumption.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 9, 2010)

If I recall correctly (and I was waiting for SS7 to jump in), Sokka and Zuko fought to a draw, but it was clear that Zuko had the upper hand.

Or was that Bumi v. Toph? I'm having trouble finding the scans right now.


And if anyone's the goddamn Batman in Avatar, it's zuko as the Blue Spirit. In fact, Blue Spirit Zuko is beyond Batman.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 9, 2010)

I remember the outcomes were Bumi Vs. Toph being a draw and Zuko winning outright over Sokka in their sword fight. What I really want to see is that Aang/Kuzon adventure, that one has some interesting art.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 9, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I remember the outcomes were Bumi Vs. Toph being a draw and Zuko winning outright over Sokka in their sword fight. What I really want to see is that Aang/Kuzon adventure, that one has some interesting art.



Toph....not win?

No, I have to express how alarming Sokka losing to Zuko is


----------



## The Potential (Nov 9, 2010)

Zuko and Sokka fought?? When, where? How could I have missed something of such *Epicness!!!!*







*Spoiler*: __ 



And I'm not talking about Kyoshi Island.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 9, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Zuko and Sokka fought?? When, where? How could I have missed something of such *Epicness!!!!*



It was in a comic, from what I've read.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 9, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> It was in a comic, from what I've read.



I must find this Comic!!!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I must disagree; Sokka is intelligent, but I doubt that he is anywhere close to Batman's level of intelligence. Batman is a super-genius who can prepare for virtually any scenario (see the "crazy prepared" trope at _TV Tropes),_ while Sokka demonstrated a lack of plans more than once.
> 
> How does everyone here imagine that this series will be remembered in five, ten, or more years from now? Will it be immortalized as one of the greatest examples of western animation, as are _Batman: the Animated Series_ or the 1987 _Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles_ series, or will it vanish into obscurity, as have _Gargoyles_ and _Reboot_ (which is very unfortunate)?


You make a great straight man.

Although, Sokka does show that he has Batman level strategic planning. Like taking out CM for example, is like Batman regularly taking out Superman.

...

Both with, and without Kryptonite.


----------



## Noah (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I must disagree; Sokka is intelligent, but I doubt that he is anywhere close to Batman's level of intelligence. Batman is a super-genius who can prepare for virtually any scenario (see the "crazy prepared" trope at _TV Tropes),_ while Sokka demonstrated a lack of plans more than once.
> 
> How does everyone here imagine that this series will be remembered in five, ten, or more years from now? Will it be immortalized as one of the greatest examples of western animation, as are _Batman: the Animated Series_ or the 1987 _Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles_ series, or will it vanish into obscurity, as have _Gargoyles_ and _Reboot_ (which is very unfortunate)?



I like to think of Sokka more like Ted Kord Blue Beetle, just, you know, without the whole getting-shot-in-the-head thing.

And even if Avatar eventually does fall into obscurity, it will always be one of those examples that animators and hopefuls will look back on as inspiration. Pretty much everything about the series was done right, and it will be recognized by the industry for that for a long time, I think, just like Batman:TAS and Gargoyles. I never paid attention to Reboot, but it is held in pretty high regards.

TMNT though....ugh. TMNT has the same problem that a lot of things from the 80's have: It's looked back on fondly due to nostalgia, but in all reality, it's shit. The 2003 TMNT was much better in every aspect.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 9, 2010)

Noah said:


> TMNT though....ugh. TMNT has the same problem that a lot of things from the 80's have: It's looked back on fondly due to nostalgia, but in all reality, it's shit. The 2003 TMNT was much better in every aspect.



Was Mighty Max made in the 80s or 90s? I only have my childhood memories to gauge that show but damn I thought that was awesome...Epic and ahead of its time...they have the finale where I think he even actually loses...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 9, 2010)

Noah said:


> I like to think of Sokka more like Ted Kord Blue Beetle, just, you know, without the whole getting-shot-in-the-head thing.
> 
> And even if Avatar eventually does fall into obscurity, it will always be one of those examples that animators and hopefuls will look back on as inspiration. Pretty much everything about the series was done right, and it will be recognized by the industry for that for a long time, I think, just like Batman:TAS and Gargoyles. I never paid attention to Reboot, but it is held in pretty high regards.
> 
> TMNT though....ugh. TMNT has the same problem that a lot of things from the 80's have: It's looked back on fondly due to nostalgia, but in all reality, it's shit. The 2003 TMNT was much better in every aspect.



Definately 2k3 tmnt for the win

Much more faithful to the comic, yet original in it's own right. Shockingly, the only good thing 4Kids ever did.

Also, I may be wrong, but I think some of the Avatar writers work on TMNT.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 9, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Was Mighty Max made in the 80s or 90s? I only have my childhood memories to gauge that show but damn I thought that was awesome...Epic and ahead of its time...they have the finale where I think he even actually loses...



Early 90's.
An enjoyable animated series based on a Toyline, go figure. You're right in remembering that the hero did fail...but he was able to go back into time to set everything right. Essentially the show ends where it began.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 9, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Toph....not win?



But against Bumi, a draw is a good result for her.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 9, 2010)

Jove said:


> But against Bumi, a draw is a good result for her.



Toph is ultimate. She should have won.... 

Oh well, two great Earthbenders drawing is good too!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 9, 2010)

It seems to me that _Gargoyles_ is better-known than what I thought it was, so I shall edit my above post to use two different examples for both well-known and obscure western animated series.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 9, 2010)

Reboot. Oh the memories I have with that show.pek


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 9, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Toph is ultimate. She should have won....
> 
> Oh well, two great Earthbenders drawing is good too!



Bumi's still the greatest Earthbender in the world. Toph is just the prodigy that will surpass him.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 9, 2010)

Jove said:


> Bumi's still the greatest Earthbender in the world. Toph is just the prodigy that will surpass him.



I always wanted to ask....can Bumi Metalbender? I never saw him do it...and when he broke free, if he did know how to do it, why didn't he use that method?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 9, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Reboot. Oh the memories I have with that show.pek



I am very glad to hear that you liked that series; it is unquestionably my favorite western animated series to this current day; of course, I do like _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ very much, but thus far, I have never seen a western animated series that equals the awesomeness of _Reboot._



Terra Branford said:


> I always wanted to ask....can Bumi Metalbender? I never saw him do it...and when he broke free, if he did know how to do it, why didn't he use that method?



I shall guess that he cannot, because Toph would not be able to surpass him, otherwise; that technique is unique to her, and it shall be a part of what shall make her the greatest earthbender ever.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I shall guess that he cannot, because Toph would not be able to surpass him, otherwise; that technique is unique to her, and it shall be a part of what shall make her the greatest earthbender ever.



That's what I hoped pek

Thank goodness! The show needs a little girl who can do something the others can't. Thank goodness!


----------



## The Potential (Nov 9, 2010)

Can you guys imagine a 25 year old Toph Metalbending an entire ship?

Sure that might be a bit much, but a man can dream.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 9, 2010)

Toph also needs to learn from Bumi; his creativity is something she lacks. She'll be the ultimate Earthbender by the time she's 21.

Ultimate _non-Avatar_ Earthbender.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 9, 2010)

Jove said:


> Toph also needs to learn from Bumi; his creativity is something she lacks. She'll be the ultimate Earthbender by the time she's 21.
> 
> Ultimate _non-Avatar_ Earthbender.



Completely agree with this.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 10, 2010)

Jove said:


> Toph also needs to learn from Bumi; his creativity is something she lacks. She'll be the ultimate Earthbender by the time she's 21.
> 
> Ultimate _non-Avatar_ Earthbender.





Agreed!

Although here is where my fangirl comes in and I think she's better than an Avatar


----------



## The Potential (Nov 10, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Agreed!
> 
> Although here is where my fangirl comes in and I think she's better than an Avatar



Stop it Miss Branford! Stop it right there!


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 10, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Can you guys imagine a 25 year old Toph Metalbending an entire ship?
> 
> Sure that might be a bit much, but a man can dream.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 10, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Stop it Miss Branford! Stop it right there!



But its true canonz!


----------



## The Potential (Nov 10, 2010)




----------



## Klue (Nov 10, 2010)

Epic pics and gifs, keep them coming.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 10, 2010)

Oh i'll keep them coming, or my favortie character isn't Sokka.





*Spoiler*: __ 



My Set and Avatar beg to differ though.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 10, 2010)

Oh Zhao, always causing problems like a comic book villain


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 10, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> But its true canonz!



Well, it's not _disproven_.


There was debate a while back about whether the Avatar was the best bender in each discipline. I don't even remember what the arguments were, but in the end the show gave us two clues:

1. Roku dominating his teachers in 306.

2. AvatarExtras explicitly stating that Aang was the best Firebender in the world by the end of the series. And Aang was a novice. 

It's pretty incredible, the depths of an Avatar's power. Just makes you appreciate what a true bending monster Ozai was


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 10, 2010)

Jove said:


> Well, it's not _disproven_.
> 
> 
> There was debate a while back about whether the Avatar was the best bender in each discipline. I don't even remember what the arguments were, but in the end the show gave us two clues:
> ...


Well...well Aang had a cheat-win power behind him


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 10, 2010)

Epic.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 10, 2010)

Well about the Zuko vs Sokka, the only true way to settle a winner is have them face each other at their prime and when they accumulated a decent amount of experience for themselves.
*
SWT Warrior Sokka*


*VS

Fire Lord Zuko*


----------



## Stalin (Nov 10, 2010)

Zuko looks badass,


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 10, 2010)

No offense, but Zuko looks like he's doing a gay sun king-esque dance.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 10, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> No offense, but Zuko looks like he's doing a gay sun king-esque dance.



*Zuko:* _"It's not a dance. It's a firebending form. It's a sacred form that happens to be thousands of years old!" _

_"The...
.
.
.
.
Dancing Dragon. "_


----------



## Koi (Nov 10, 2010)

GOT DAMN SOKKA

Clearly taking a page out of his father's own book of hotness, I see.


----------



## Burke (Nov 10, 2010)

So to sum DDJ in one phrase, it would be safe to call him an "educated pervert."


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Would you say that to his face, while he was performing that dance?
> 
> And what is "gay" about the Sun Warrior firebending style? How is that dance homosexual in any manner?



Read DDJ, read.

I never said sun warrior, I said sun king.


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 10, 2010)

I would explain but I´m sure it´ll take way too much time to explain that ´gay´ does not necessarily have to mean ´homosexual´.


----------



## Burke (Nov 10, 2010)

I do believe hes trying to say that that representation of zuko is homo erotic


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 10, 2010)

I pray for the Avatar world that Zuko was not a Louis XIV. Might explain some of the particulars about Korra's world.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 10, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> I would explain but I´m sure it´ll take way too much time to explain that ´gay´ does not necessarily have to mean ´homosexual´.



Well I'm with DDJ on this one.
I don't use Gay any other way. Well...perhaps if I lived in 1924.
Wait did someone say that Zuko looked like Sasuke?


----------



## The Potential (Nov 10, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well about the Zuko vs Sokka, the only true way to settle a winner is have them face each other at their prime and when they accumulated a decent amount of experience for themselves.
> *
> SWT Warrior Sokka*
> 
> ...



Flameo sir, flameo.


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> No, I said that Sokka resembled Sasuke in the image that Waking Dreamer posted several posts ago, although Zuko certainly does resemble Sasuke in the image that you posted.
> 
> As for the subject of the word "gay," I use it strictly as synonym for "homosexual," and in no other way, although even then, I usually use the proper word "homosexual" and not any slang terms.



I don't see Sokka's resemblance.  In that picture Sokka is way more masculine and badass than Sasuke could ever be.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 10, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> I don't see Sokka's resemblance.  In that picture Sokka is way more masculine and badass than Sasuke could ever be.



His whole character design prevents him from ever looking manly. Sasuke will always and forever be..... A "Pretty Boy".


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2010)

It's not like Kishimoto can't draw badass characters.  Raikage and Killer Bee are a couple examples.  Kishimoto should have taken the break between part 1 and part 2 to show that Sasuke had grown and buffed up so he actually looked like a fighter.  Alas, it is far too late for that now.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 10, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> It's not like Kishimoto can't draw badass characters.  Raikage and Killer Bee are a couple examples.  Kishimoto should have taken the break between part 1 and part 2 to show that Sasuke had grown and buffed up so he actually looked like a fighter.  Alas, it is far too late for that now.



Yeah, Raikage and Bee-san look pretty badass. As you said though, It's to late for Sasuke now.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 10, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well about the Zuko vs Sokka, the only true way to settle a winner is have them face each other at their prime and when they accumulated a decent amount of experience for themselves.
> *
> SWT Warrior Sokka*
> 
> ...


My only complaint is that the anatomy is royally fudged up on the Sokka one.


DemonDragonJ said:


> No, I said that Sokka resembled Sasuke in the image that Waking Dreamer posted several posts ago, although Zuko certainly does resemble Sasuke in the image that you posted.
> 
> As for the subject of the word "gay," I use it strictly as synonym for "homosexual," and in no other way, although even then, I usually use the proper word "homosexual" and not any slang terms.


Homosexuals actually coined the word gay, it was a positive word that denotes them as equal value to heterosexuals and carries a positive connotation. It is still acceptable to call a homosexual individual gay, obviously, using the word gay to express negative shit is bad.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 10, 2010)

I swear I will stab every last one of you in the face if you don't STOP GAYING UP THE AVATAR THREAD WITH A SAMANTICS DEBATE ABOUT THE WORD "GAY".


----------



## Riley (Nov 10, 2010)

Why is it that everyone doesn't think it wasn't an asspull that Aang didn't lose Katara romantically? I mean seriously, they reference the whole Zuko X Katara and it potentially looking enchanting but just shift that shit. Cool for you guys unusual for me. Just someone plz a good explanation is all I need. And don't neg and run *cough*like *cough*Castiel*cough* *cough*.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 10, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I swear I will stab every last one of you in the face if you don't STOP GAYING UP THE AVATAR THREAD WITH A SAMANTICS DEBATE ABOUT THE WORD "GAY".


Aw, we love you too, but we just traded up for the new stab-a-tron 6000


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 10, 2010)

Riley said:


> Why is it that everyone doesn't think it wasn't an asspull that Aang didn't lose Katara romantically? I mean seriously, they reference the whole Zuko X Katara and it potentially looking enchanting but just shift that shit. Cool for you guys unusual for me. Just someone plz a good explanation is all I need. And don't neg and run *cough*like *cough*Castiel*cough* *cough*.



Are you saying that you saw romantic chemistry between Zuko and Katara in the show?


----------



## Riley (Nov 10, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Are you saying that you saw romantic chemistry between Zuko and Katara in the show?



The last episode Crossroads of destiny?

The Sozin's comet 2 hour finale?

I'm not going to go into further detail in fear of a shipping war, but yeah I was a little surprised.


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2010)

Riley said:


> Why is it that everyone doesn't think it wasn't an asspull that Aang didn't lose Katara romantically? I mean seriously, they reference the whole Zuko X Katara and it potentially looking enchanting but just shift that shit. Cool for you guys unusual for me. Just someone plz a good explanation is all I need. And don't neg and run *cough*like *cough*Castiel*cough* *cough*.



How _was_ it an asspull?  It's been clear since Aang first looked into Katara's eyes that he would end up with her.  There's been development of it in episodes like "The Fortune Teller", "The Cave of Two Lovers", "The Serpent's Pass", "The Guru", "The Headband", "The Invasion", and "The Ember Island Players".

On top of that, we know that Katara and Zuko do not have feelings for each other, and in fact are averse to the idea of getting together.  First of all, Zuko's got his own girlfriend, Mai.  Mai sacrificed her own freedom to help Zuko escape in "The Boiling Rock".  It would be incredibly dickish for him to leave Mai for Katara after that.  Secondly, in "The Ember Island Players", when the stage Zuko and Katara say that they are in love, the real Zuko and Katara are creeped out by it and edge away from each other.  After "The Southern Raiders", there are no more hard feelings between Zuko and Katara, but there are no romantic feelings either.

I'll take this opportunity to repost what DemonDragonJ found a few pages back.


----------



## Riley (Nov 10, 2010)

LOL


Okay but you agree with me that the Energybending bit was a last minute decision right?


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2010)

"Last minute decision"?  How so?


----------



## Riley (Nov 10, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> "Last minute decision"?  How so?



Because at first during the invasion Aang doesn't even contemplate the idea of it and it's only several episodes later he does. Plus it's not as gracefully elaborated on like the Avatar state. I mean people actually removed other people's "bending" seems like a cheap concept.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 10, 2010)

I have been wondering something: what purpose did Momo serve for the heroes? Appa was useful for transportation, but Momo did not perform any useful function, apart from pilfering items maybe once, and they were not even the items that the heroes needed. Was he around for moral support and comic relief?



Mordin Solus said:


> I don't see Sokka's resemblance.  In that picture Sokka is way more masculine and badass than Sasuke could ever be.



I must disagree; Sokka is badass in that image, but that image is only fanart, and unfortunately, Sokka never achieved that level of badassery in the canonical series, as awesome as that would have been. And I also believe that Sasuke, while certainly not as badass as characters such as the Raikage or Killerbee, he is fairly badass in his own right, at least when compared with the other members of the twelve rookies from the _Chunin_ exam.

And regardless of who is more badass, I am of the opinion that Sasuke could defeat nearly every warrior in the entire _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ universe in a one-on-one battle; only a fully-realized avatar would have any chance against him. I am not saying that he can solo this series' universe, although he certainly would come very close to doing so, but none of the fighters in this _A:tLA_ have super-speed or defense against mental attacks, and that also means that a significant number of characters from _Bleach_ could easily solo this universe, as well.

Anyway, I wish to divert myself from discussing the comparison of other fictional series to this one, for there are other threads in which that can be done, and I shall post several of my own favorite pieces of fan-art.

*Spoiler*: _Zuko with a red dragon_ 







*Spoiler*: _Zuko firebending_ 







*Spoiler*: _All the primary main characters_ 







*Spoiler*: _Many major characters, both primary and secondary_ 






I find each of these images to be very detailed and well-drawn, capturing each character's personality and emotions very thoroughly.


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2010)

Riley said:
			
		

> Because at first during the invasion Aang doesn't even contemplate the idea of it and it's only several episodes later he does. Plus it's not as gracefully elaborated on like the Avatar state. I mean people actually removed other people's "bending" seems like a cheap concept.



He may have hoped to capture Ozai while he was helpless during the eclipse, or frankly, the thought had never even occurred to him.  He'd never had to kill anyone in his fights before.  It was only Zuko saying "What are you going to do when you face my father?" at the end of "The Southern Raiders" that got Aang thinking about just _what_ he was going to do.

Energybending was elaborated more on the Avatar flash website on Nick.com (now defunct).  The Lion Turtle describes it as "bending the energy within ourselves", so it's pretty clear that it has other uses besides removing bending abilities.  That specific ability was the one most useful for Aang at the time.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 10, 2010)

He was given the ability by the Lion Turtle


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I must disagree; Sokka is badass in that image, but that image is only fanart, and unfortunately, Sokka never achieved that level of badassery in the canonical series, as awesome as that would have been. And I also believe that Sasuke, while certainly not as badass as characters such as the Raikage or Killerbee, he is fairly badass in his own right, at least when compared with the other members of the twelve rookies from the _Chunin_ exam.



I know, that's why I said "in that picture".  The 12 rookies are not a very high standard of badassery.  Honestly, take badass icons from just about any series, and Sasuke doesn't compare.



> And regardless of who is more badass, I am of the opinion that Sasuke could defeat nearly every warrior in the entire _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ universe in a one-on-one battle; only a fully-realized avatar would have any chance against him. I am not saying that he can solo this series' universe, although he certainly would come very close to doing so, but none of the fighters in this _A:tLA_ have super-speed or defense against mental attacks, and that also means that a significant number of characters from _Bleach_ could easily solo this universe, as well.



That's a discussion for the OBD. 



> Anyway, I wish to divert myself from discussing the comparison of other fictional series to this one, for there are other threads in which that can be done, and I shall post several of my own favorite pieces of fan-art.
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Zuko with a red dragon_
> 
> ...



_Very_ nice.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 10, 2010)

Riley said:


> Okay but you agree with me that the Energybending bit was a last minute decision right?



Yes, I do believe that it was a poorly-executed _deus ex machina_ that allowed Aang to escape from a moral dilemma because it had not ever been foreshadowed at all in the series, and I also wish that Ozai had died a glorious and dramatic death rather than having such an undignified and disgraceful end.


----------



## Riley (Nov 10, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Energybending was elaborated more on the Avatar flash website on Nick.com (now defunct).  The Lion Turtle describes it as "bending the energy within ourselves", so it's pretty clear that it has other uses besides removing bending abilities.  That specific ability was the one most useful for Aang at the time.



Okay, but here's the thing:

Next time, they come up with a new concept how about not ripping it off from Ty Lee's special ability!? I mean seriously, that's essentially what Energybending comes off as with Aang removing Ozai's firebending.


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2010)

...ok, not a problem for me, but whatever floats your boat bro.


----------



## Riley (Nov 10, 2010)

Btw what do you guys think of Jet?


Dude's one of my fave characters

Also here's this cool AMV I found

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5MGQMbo9HQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have been wondering something: what purpose did Momo serve for the heroes? Appa was useful for transportation, but Momo did not perform any useful function, apart from pilfering items maybe once, and they were not even the items that the heroes needed. Was he around for moral support and comic relief?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, that's cold, you don't need a reason to keep a friend/pet.

Sasuke beat-um, what?

Well, I guess he could, he cheats. And I guess he could win if Avatar was written by Kishimoto, but then, that's just not Avatar anymore.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I do believe that it was a poorly-executed _deus ex machina_ that allowed Aang to escape from a moral dilemma because it had not ever been foreshadowed at all in the series, and I also wish that Ozai had died a glorious and dramatic death rather than having such an undignified and disgraceful end.


Geez, that would just be romanticizing evil people like Ozai. Ozai is a man of power, it's a very apt punishment for him to spend his whole life without his godly bending powers, and his authority. 

I suppose Aang could've broke Ozai's arms irreparably or something; achieving the same effect, but that would just be too egregiously gratuitously violent for Aang. Aang just killing him would be destroying his character, and I would find it tasteless.


----------



## Riley (Nov 10, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I suppose Aang could've broke Ozai's arms irreparably or something; achieving the same effect, but that would just be too egregiously gratuitously violent for Aang.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Riley (Nov 10, 2010)

Or make Aang's speech to Ozai something like this:


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 10, 2010)

Riley said:


> ReikaiDemon said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose Aang could've broke Ozai's arms irreparably or something; achieving the same effect, but that would just be too egregiously gratuitously violent for Aang.
> ...


----------



## Koi (Nov 11, 2010)

The Lion Turtle was in the Library.. :3  Or, a picture of it was.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 11, 2010)

Even if you believe it was a deus ex machina, it was _not_ poorly executed. It made perfect sense within the episode and was a breathtaking denouement.

They saved a surprise for the end... oh well. It worked.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 11, 2010)

Riley said:


> Btw what do you guys think of Jet?



I liked Jet....sometimes he annoyed me though. But the episode where he was fighting Zuko, that was cool


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 11, 2010)

Riley said:


> The last episode Crossroads of destiny?
> 
> The Sozin's comet 2 hour finale?
> 
> I'm not going to go into further detail in fear of a shipping war, but yeah I was a little surprised.



Seriously, buddy?


----------



## Phunin (Nov 11, 2010)

Riley said:


> Btw what do you guys think of Jet?
> 
> 
> Dude's one of my fave characters
> ...



Lol, I liked Jet too. One of my favorite characters. Did not have to depend on bending to fight. HE reminded me of uhh, the blue demon or whatever that person was that Zuko dressed as.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 11, 2010)

Phunin said:


> Lol, I liked Jet too. One of my favorite characters. Did not have to depend on bending to fight. HE reminded me of uhh, the blue demon or whatever that person was that Zuko dressed as.



Blue spirit. In the future show some respect and do a google search.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 11, 2010)

Yeah. Now _that_ was a "seriously, buddy?" moment. Getting the name of the undefeated Avatar character incorrect.


----------



## Level7N00b (Nov 11, 2010)

Wish there could have been more Blue Spirit.


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## Riley (Nov 11, 2010)

Jove said:
			
		

> it was _not_ poorly executed. It made perfect sense within the episode and was a breathtaking denouement.



It was a concept created to get Aang to take down Firelord Ozai without having to kill him. At the northern water tribe Aang sunk the entire navy I'm pretty sure when those sailors go into the freezing water they die and i didn't see any life boats so there were definitely deaths. That's why I don't like Energybending.


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## CrazyAries (Nov 11, 2010)

Riley said:


> It was a concept created to get Aang to take down Firelord Ozai without having to kill him. At the northern water tribe Aang sunk the entire navy I'm pretty sure when those sailors go into the freezing water they die and i didn't see any life boats so there were definitely deaths. That's why I don't like Energybending.



That is indeed a conundrum, but Aang sunk those ships before he had full control of the Avatar State. His actions weighed heavily on him and he was later shown to have nightmares because of them.

I do not feel that the energybending was an asspull, but a surprise that best fit Aang's character.  I feel that his talk with the lion turtle was an adequate build up to Aang's final decision. He did not want to kill again.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 11, 2010)

Riley said:


> It was a concept created to get Aang to take down Firelord Ozai without having to kill him. At the northern water tribe Aang sunk the entire navy I'm pretty sure when those sailors go into the freezing water they die and i didn't see any life boats so there were definitely deaths. That's why I don't like Energybending.


No, the ocean spirit drowned those mooks, Aang was merely the medium


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 11, 2010)

Riley said:


> It was a concept created to get Aang to take down Firelord Ozai without having to kill him. At the northern water tribe Aang sunk the entire navy I'm pretty sure when those sailors go into the freezing water they die and i didn't see any life boats so there were definitely deaths. That's why I don't like Energybending.




Well, yeah, Avatar had that problem throughout it's entire run. When Katara crashed those warships in day of Black Sun, did they fall onto a mound of fluffy cotton stuffing? Of course not. What do you think happened to the war ship workers that Sokka dropped into the ocean? Hell, when Aang raised the tide to put out the fire, one of them was probably impaled on Space Sword.


Best to just imagine that once they're out of frame, they are out of mind. This was going to be a direct killing. Not like Aang was that mature anyway; he summoned the four previous Avatars and didn't even listen to them. I still contend that none of them actually told Aang to kill Ozai; they gave vague advice, hoping he'd find his own way. He projected his own prejudice onto their wisdom...

But yeah, if that is your problem with Energybending, I can understand. I respect it more than the deus ex machina argument, since it was pretty cool and beautifully rendered, which kind of nullifies the "narrative error" aspect.


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## Buskuv (Nov 11, 2010)

I'm sorry, I'm going to refer to the series as Avatar: the Last Deus ex Machina


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 11, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm sorry, I'm going to refer to the series as Avatar: the Last Deus ex Machina



Little _late_ with that comment, aren't you.


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## Buskuv (Nov 11, 2010)

It's never too late

to bring up the "Deus ex" comment.


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## The Potential (Nov 11, 2010)

A bit distasteful though.


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 11, 2010)

Well energybending and the lion turtle is one thing but what about the Avatar State?

Would the that be considered an asspull?

Seriously, he learned to overcome his fear of firebending to have a chance against Ozai without the avatar state.He never spent anytime in S3 trying to reobtain it, and then it suddenly comes in a saves the day...?


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 11, 2010)

Deus Ex was a good game

I hath no idea what it has to do with AtLA


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 11, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Deus Ex was a good game
> 
> I hath no idea what it has to do with AtLA



The term  (Latin for "god out of the machine") refers to a plot device that is often illogical or inexplicably solves a conflict in the plot of a series without foreshadowing or in a manner that makes little sense.

As I have said before, I believe that the presence of energybending was a _deus ex machina,_ because it allowed Aang to escape from a moral dilemma. However, I will admit that I also was highly dissatisfied with Ozai's fate; if I were the Avatar, or, more importantly, a co-creator of the series, I would have given Ozai a very dramatic and awesome death, as I believe that a character of his caliber deserves.


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## Mider T (Nov 11, 2010)

Death would have been an easy route out.  I believe it was poetic justice for an ultra-nationalist, elitist, racist (in bender terms) like Ozai to lose his powers, status, family, and respect.  For him, it's a fate worse than death seeing what he hated most and believed to be weak overcome his vision of the world at his very best.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 11, 2010)

Ozai was an irredeemable Big Bad that was only physically present in a handful of episodes. He didn't deserve anything glorious, and compared to the ending Mike and Bryan devised, a death would seem cheap.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The term  (Latin for "god out of the machine") refers to a plot device that is often illogical or inexplicably solves a conflict in the plot of a series without foreshadowing or in a manner that makes little sense.
> 
> As I have said before, I believe that the presence of energybending was a _deus ex machina,_ because it allowed Aang to escape from a moral dilemma. However, I will admit that I also was highly dissatisfied with Ozai's fate; if I were the Avatar, or, more importantly, a co-creator of the series, I would have given Ozai a very dramatic and awesome death, as I believe that a character of his caliber deserves.


You know, I thought it was pretty funny how literally you take my sharp sarcasm. 


Mider T said:


> Death would have been an easy route out.  I believe it was poetic justice for an ultra-nationalist, elitist, racist (in bender terms) like Ozai to lose his powers, status, family, and respect.  For him, it's a fate worse than death seeing what he hated most and believed to be weak overcome his vision of the world at his very best.


Seconded.

Take Hitler for example, because of his suicide, he never got his full comeuppance. In his death, he has become a martyr, and still serves to inspire more idiots down the line, keeping his values afloat. Had he been humiliated fully, and thoroughly, and brought to justice, Neo-Nazism and other offshoots would be taken even less seriously, or not exist possibly.

Although, this is a different matter, the Avatar is much like a righteous god, so no doubt, his/her's actions would be taken seriously regardless. 

Though, I'd like to think there is a far greater strength in sparing the life of a monster like Ozai. For many reasons, I think if Aang killed Ozai, it may carry the connotation to the world that the Avatar killed him out of fear for his life. Such a weakness of image could be fatal. Another is that, had Aang killed Ozai, it could only further the bloody, painful, and fearful century of war. It would justify murder to solve a mass atrocity, and possibly suggest to the many that there is a power vacuum waiting to be filled by those bloodthirsty enough. Who knows, maybe Ursa would be out for Aang's neck out of revenge. It's the same argument for Zuko killing Ozai to succeed to the throne. Mere patricide in Zuko's case; it would only paint his image red as the new Firelord, they would only fear him, not revere him. 

Oh, and I bet it's really demoralizing for Azula, I think Azula would redouble her crazy and efforts against Zuko and the Gaang. With Ozai's living punishment, I bet Azula lost a lot of faith in Ozai, who for the most part, is a strong enabler for her ruthless state. In sparing Ozai, Azula has a possible chance to be reformed.

Anyways, a few reasons out of many I have thought of.


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## Stunna (Nov 11, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Wish there could have been more Blue Spirit.


Totally. Is it just me, or did Avatar feel rushed?


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 11, 2010)

Stunna said:


> Totally. Is it just me, or did Avatar feel rushed?


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 11, 2010)

Gif speak is worth a trillion volumes of words


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## Stunna (Nov 11, 2010)

Didn't it though?


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 11, 2010)

Maybe if you're watching it back to back online or DVD or something.

I felt it was reasonably paced, comfortable even.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 11, 2010)

Because when Day of Black Sun aired I thought to myself, "Were those last 9 episodes _really_ enough build-up? "


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 11, 2010)

It felt rushed as in not enough was happening in the last half a dozens eps at the very least. 

This resulted in the finale giving the good guys ALL the answers and power to win before it ended. 

I dont believe the gAang were still relaxing in the ep before the finale...


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 11, 2010)

Stunna said:


> Didn't it though?





Waking Dreamer said:


> It felt rushed as in not enough was happening in the last half a dozens eps at the very least.
> 
> This resulted in the finale giving the good guys ALL the answers and power to win before it ended.
> 
> I dont believe the gAang were still relaxing in the ep before the finale...




Alright then, time to do some IP checks.


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## Stunna (Nov 11, 2010)

I felt like Avatar could've gone to at least 80 episodes.


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## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

Stunna said:


> I felt like Avatar could've gone to at least 80 episodes.



If only....I dreamed of this when it ended.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Terra, why must you always want the worst for Avatar?

I have a feeling that Avatar was nothing more than a distraction of eyecandy and words for you.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 12, 2010)

Come on now, Rekky. You can't hold it against her for wanting more Avatar.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Jove said:


> Come on now, Rekky. You can't hold it against her for wanting more Avatar.


I would much rather Avatar keep their dignity, than flaccidly flail around tens of episodes into a long needed finale.

Remember kids, Quality > Quantity

But Quantity of Quality= Expensive and difficult

There have been far too many dead horses beaten. Pokemon, Naruto, Bleach...

Avatar was far more than enough awesome for me.


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## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Terra, why must you always want the worst for Avatar?
> 
> I have a feeling that Avatar was nothing more than a distraction of eyecandy and words for you.



Because it was awesome and the only good show I've ever seen (Besides GITS, Eureka Seven and Gundams) so naturally, when I see something good, I'll want more.

Now way could more episodes make it  bad


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Moderation was clearly a virtue that has failed to grasp you


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 12, 2010)

Who would like to grasp a moderator?


And yes, more episodes could make it bad, even if I trust that M&B would have made it work.


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## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

Avatar could have pulled off a longer series and it would have been just as awesome. 

Or at least I trust that they wouldn't fail us.


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## Noah (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm gonna have to go ahead and side with Jove and Rek on this one. The length was perfect. If we absolutely needed more episodes, we really only needed one. Maybe two.

Maybe. But probably not.

P.S. Energybending > Your argument, all of you.


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## Gunners (Nov 12, 2010)

The series needed to end when it did. I'm sort of busy now so I won't go into much detail but Sozin's comment was always coming near.


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## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

We wanted more Avatar and we're getting it. This time it will be in the form of a female.


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## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

Noah said:


> I'm gonna have to go ahead and side with Jove and Rek on this one. The length was perfect. If we absolutely needed more episodes, we really only needed one. Maybe two.
> 
> Maybe. But probably not.
> 
> P.S. Energybending > Your argument, all of you.



Any more Avatar than after the first? 12 more episodes will not fill my appetite


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Better than having the series dry down to a shallow puddle.

Think of it as a tootsie roll pop, better if you don't chew it up before your tongue even tastes the candy shell.

Korra must be packed with depth if it has to resolve itself in 12 episodes.

And I think it's far more preferable for a new Avatar series to be made of Brycycle's free will than having it wheedled out of them by voracious fans. Or worse, having the Avatar mythos taken over by Nick execs, and sold off to another studio of writers, wherein they will endlessly make episodes, diminishing what little spirit it had of the original in the first place.

You know, like Pokemon after one of it's main writers died.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Better than having the series dry down to a shallow puddle.
> 
> Think of it as a tootsie roll pop, better if you don't chew it up before your tongue even tastes the candy shell.
> 
> Korra must be packed with depth if it has to resolve itself in 12 episodes.



Tootsie roll pops are good either way though 

I don't think it would have dried down...well, I would have been happy with short films I guess. Like the Cars shorts. Those are pretty good


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## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Tootsie roll pops are good either way though
> 
> I don't think it would have dried down...well, I would have been happy with short films I guess. Like the Cars shorts. Those are pretty good



You mean like this.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> You mean like this.



Yes! But more to the length....


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## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Yes! But more to the length....



They really should have made more of those Avatar shorts. They were *AWESOME!!*


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> You mean like this.


It's funny that it looks more like a kamehameha/hadoken than water.

Hmmm, Did Avatar invent the chibi side series genre? I can't remember seeing chibi series of popular anime before Avatar. Well, there's that Gundam series, but I dunno how that counts since the Gundams were sentient robots, and the humans were not really chibi...

Haruhi for example has a chibiseries 

Well, about adding more episodes to the main series. Terra, you like Toph right?

Well, I think making Avatar long would be bad for your enjoyment of Toph, since the growth of the characters in Avatar were made to fit three seasons. Even before the last episodes, they've grown as far as they could, believably. 

There would be no way to go, than to march right into character decay, or a complete stasis. Plus, with the major threats to the balance of the world gone, there is no conflict, other than, god forbid, insipid teen dramas or comedies, or dramadies due to Nick being...Nick. 

I bet even you would feel like it would overstay it's emphatic welcome. Imagine, they make Toph more and more bratty to carry the episodes jokes along. Then she becomes whiny and emo a few more episodes down the line, playing up her handicaps as a tragic affliction, despite living quite happily and quite capable without her sight. But of course, they just have to justify SOME personal and interpersonal conflict to justify having the episodes after the finale. Then, when you just had about enough of that, Toph is suddenly frilly. Oh dears. Here comes the "a very special episode". For some reason, the advent of hormones has cause a strong willed self assured girl to be all weak and helpless. Great, now we're gonna introduce some contrived romance, and brand new characters just so she can have a crush her age that isn't already taken. Of course, the writers have to nerf Toph to make her non-threatening, despite the fact that's what most of us love her for. She will, from time to time, carry the idiot ball, and be in situations of peril that she could easily get out of.

And then lo and behold, at least one or two of her new love interests have to save her. One of them is a completely ineffectual normal, who just happens to have a bad habit of getting in way over his head. (Or her if Nick decides to be all progressive and stuff, chunky chicken noodle style! Yeah! Yeah....).

Then after that arc is finished, more ineffectual adventures with the now enormously flanderized Toph and co.

I bet even less than halfway through the new season of series right after book three, Toph will no longer be the character you know and love. 

Well, that's my post apocalyptic vision at least, if they decided to make the original series longer, it would feel really padded out, watered down, and pack less of an impact than it's original three season run.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> It's funny that it looks more like a *kamehameha/hadoken than water*.



You know, I was thinking the exact think...

Of course I love my Toph. But I trust them. They wouldn't have harmed it any, unless they sold the rights to someone else and then it was ruined.

Mini-episodes would have been nice. Like how some of the DBZ movies say they are canon, but its really hard to pin-point the story but you can actually do it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Really? I don't think any of the DBZ movies were canon. 

Though, they do have their own canon.

Like Broly or Cooler


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Really? I don't think any of the DBZ movies were canon.
> 
> Though, they do have their own canon.
> 
> Like Broly or Cooler



Well, everything but GT and if there are, GT movies can be considered canon. But people like to say GT isn't really canon "canon" because the real creator helped with only the ending episodes.


*Spoiler*: __ 



You can pin-poin the movies to the show when what the creator gave us. Like when Goten, Trunks and Videl go looking for the dragon balls. That's supposed to happen around Majin Buu's time (Fat one). For when Goku and Vegeta do the fusion dance (not the earrings) first when they are fighting in the Dead world, its right when Goku has to go back to the Heavens after teaching the boys how to do the fusion dance. Vegeta is there because he blew himself up prior to that and helped up in Hell with no body. But because the employee messed up and destroyed the Other world's order, Vegeta was temp given a body as the all the villains spilled back onto Earth. During which, the kids already learned how to do the fusion tech and were (is said) heading back to Kami's Look out. 

If you concentrate on what the creators of the movies tell you and then watch em, you can see where they are supposed to be tied in -- by their word. 




So if DBZ can do it, so can Avatar


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Well, everything but GT and if there are, GT movies can be considered canon. But people like to say GT isn't really canon "canon" because the real creator helped with only the ending episodes.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Well, the problem with that is they never made the series with movies in mind. Even with those movies attributed to key events in the series, they will still have inconsistencies, uncomfortable pacing, etc. It is the movies that are shoehorned into the canon, that coincidentally share some key events. But that in of itself does not make the movie canon. The only exceptions would be something like One Piece's movies, that make an arc from the manga into a movie.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, the problem with that is they never made the series with movies in mind. Even with those movies attributed to key events in the series, they will still have inconsistencies, uncomfortable pacing, etc. It is the movies that are shoehorned into the canon, that coincidentally share some key events. But that in of itself does not make the movie canon. The only exceptions would be something like One Piece's movies, that make an arc from the manga into a movie.



The pacing is fine, but yea, there are a few inconsistencies, but they aren't that bad. Well, if they say its canon and it just has a one scene problem, its canon 

I've never watched One Piece...so I can't judge that xD


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## Noah (Nov 12, 2010)

DBZ's movie canon is really only anime canon. The first movie with Garlic Jr is canon in the anime, but non-existant in the manga. I think the only other ones that are supposed to be anime-canon is, possibly, the Cooler movies and the one with Trunks' sword. But that last one messes up the already-retarded timeline.

I don't care what Toriyama or anyone else says, Broly is manga-canon, goddammit. That dude is too badass to be called filler.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 12, 2010)

Jove said:


> Alright then, time to do some IP checks.



I dont get it, what was that supposes to mean?


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

I never liked the fact that I couldn't place Broly in a strength class, where as I could place everyone else...

Like, who is he as strong as or equal to?


----------



## Shade (Nov 12, 2010)

DBZ in mah Avatar thread?




:sanji


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 12, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> I dont get it, what was that supposes to mean?



I had to make sure you weren't the same person, since I found it very difficult to believe two people would share that opinion in this thread at the same time.

Even though it turns out you are two different people, I still don't believe it.


Your post was even more unbelievable. The last half dozen episodes before the finale: 

The Western Air Temple
The Firebending Masters
The Boiling Rock, Part 1
The Boiling Rock, Part 2
The Southern Raiders
The Ember Island Players


So, not enough was happening in those episodes for you?


----------



## Quaero (Nov 12, 2010)

Hello guys, back from the dead with great news. 








> ATLA Fans! We've learned that more signatures could very well make the soundtrack come to life. Get your friends and family to all participate and one day the soundtrack will be released. Keep up the great work.




Foaming from the mouth and flailing wildly is advised.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

Yeah, that info sounds pretty great.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 12, 2010)

A soundtrack was never released?

Also, Haruhi did the chibi series before Avatar did (I think)


----------



## Stunna (Nov 12, 2010)

Jove said:


> The Western Air Temple
> The Firebending Masters
> The Boiling Rock, Part 1
> The Boiling Rock, Part 2
> ...


No...


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## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

Stunna said:


> No...



To each his own I suppose...


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 12, 2010)

If Nick were to make an animated Avatar film like those Anime movies then they'd have to take that same approach of picking a specific point in the series. Could it take place during the time that Aang, Katara and Sokka are making their way to the north pole? If you want to put Toph in the mix then of course it would have to be as they're making their way to Ba Sing Se. 
You're saying that you enjoy a larger cast? How about Aang, Katara, Sokka, Suki, Toph and Zuko right before the Day Of Black Sun? 

This would never happen unless I myself provided the $40million it would take to finance it. I'm just saying that for an animated film to happen, that would be the likely scenario. A film set after the events of the finale you say? Wow. I think that would work even less.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> A film set after the events of the finale you say? Wow. I think that would work even less.



Why don't you think that could work for Avatar? The series itself was grand! I don't see why a movie after the events of the series end wouldn't work.

Please, you must explain.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 12, 2010)

See a film where the Avatar rebuilds the world?
It just seems like something no one would understand unless they see the series.
Way too much backstory there. Any of those Nick films based on their cartoon series worked because every episode was standalone. I wouldn't necessarily have to go back to the first episode of Hey Arnold! to understand that film.

I couldn't see it working without mentioning how Aang had to defeat Ozai or the damage that the Fire Nation had done. Would it be the craziest idea ever executed? No. If it were to attempt to bring in an audience not familiar with the series, there'd have to some dynamic writers working on it.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> See a film where the Avatar rebuilds the world?
> It just seems like something no one would understand unless they see the series.
> Way too much backstory there. Any of those Nick films based on their cartoon series worked because every episode was standalone. I wouldn't necessarily have to go back to the first episode of Hey Arnold! to understand that film.
> 
> I couldn't see it working without mentioning how Aang had to defeat Ozai or the damage that the Fire Nation had done. Would it be the craziest idea ever executed? No. If it were to attempt to bring in an audience not familiar with the series, there'd have to some dynamic writers working on it.



I understand your point then. Your speaking from a producers point of view, based on ratings and the audiance and well, the cash they could make from it. Yes, if thats the case then no it woulnd't work.

I was more so speaking from a fan stand point, like it's something that would work for the fans. 

At the same point, DC is making animated movies like *Batman Under The Red Hood* and I'm more then sure the general population wouldn't understand the depth in which that story was formed. Yet, DC continues to produce them.

In my opinion those Animated films are for the fans, not the general population.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 12, 2010)

An Avatar DTV would totally work. All it has to promote is that it contains the answer to the mystery as to whether Zuko found his mom and how. Japan does these also, right?
30 minute side stories called OVA's.


----------



## Burke (Nov 12, 2010)

Most are ussualy 45 min to an hour long.

30 pages left mates.
500 posts.
Cant wait.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 12, 2010)

Most OVAs are 30-35 minutes long lol


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Nov 12, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> A film set after the events of the finale you say? Wow. I think that would work even less.


I could stand to watch 2 hours of Zuko and friends breaking into and taking down whatever prison Ursa was stashed in.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 12, 2010)

Vampire Beel said:


> I could stand to watch 2 hours of Zuko and friends breaking into and taking down whatever prison Ursa was stashed in.



Uh... why would the Fire Lord need to break into a prison to free someone instead of just, you know, pardoning them.
*
Chapter 1*
_Prison Break_

After several months, Fire Lord Zuko finally locates the prison where his mother has been kept in for the last several years. Slowly and carefully he walks up to the guards.

"Hey, Fire Lord Zuko here. My mom's locked up in here right."

"Uh, yes sir."

"Cool, let her out."

"Yes sir"


THE END.


----------



## MartialHorror (Nov 12, 2010)

Hmmm, well, apparently The Last Airbender broke even(finally). 

It's grossed 317,000,000.

Usually, the studio only gets half that. So that means they got around $158,500,000 on a budget of $150,000,000. So it's finally making money.So with DVD money, it will be a success(albeit probably a modest one),

However, I doubt a sequel will be made. M Night stated that while he's still attached, he's not actively working on it(he's making something else). This sounds like he's trying to back out with his dignity intact. The kids will get older, so if he isnt working on it immediately, you can probably figure he's not.

But then again, they did a similar thing with Narnia, so you never know.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Nov 12, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Uh... why would the Fire Lord need to break into a prison to free someone instead of just, you know, pardoning them.


They may refuse to recognize Zuko's authority or are just stubborn like Combustion Man was.

And this is assuming the prison is allied with the Fire Nation.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 12, 2010)

Vampire Beel said:


> I could stand to watch 2 hours of Zuko and friends breaking into and taking down whatever prison Ursa was stashed in.



How about the Escape and Hunt for Azula...?!


----------



## Gunners (Nov 12, 2010)

Vampire Beel said:


> They may refuse to recognize Zuko's authority or are just stubborn like Combustion Man was.
> 
> And this is assuming the prison is allied with the Fire Nation.



If they are not allied with the fire nation what sensible reason would they have to detain her?

It just wouldn't make sense. Zuko is essentially the firelord, friend of the Avatar, nephew of the man who saved Ba Sing Sei. He has access to an army. 

There would be no realistic obstacle.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> How about the Escape and Hunt for Azula...?!


Fancy clothes for a prisoner...


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 12, 2010)

I don't think there's much of an exciting grand adventure to tell of when Zuko find his mom. An emotional one for sure but I see it like this, if the reunion was storyboarded for the finale but cut for time in an already action-packed 84 minutes then there probably wasn't a whole lot before it.
Not much grounds to spend $5million on a DTV.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Fancy clothes for a prisoner...



Meh, she could be Zuko's special prisoner...



MartialHorror said:


> Hmmm, well, apparently The Last Airbender broke even(finally).
> 
> However, I doubt a sequel will be made. M Night stated that while he's still attached, he's not actively working on it(he's making something else). This sounds like he's trying to back out with his dignity intact. The kids will get older, so if he isnt working on it immediately, you can probably figure he's not.



I think if M.Night isnt involved rhat would only give the sequeal if its made better rep/fresh start.


----------



## Burke (Nov 12, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Hmmm, well, apparently The Last Airbender broke even(finally).
> 
> It's grossed 317,000,000.
> 
> ...



Ah good to see you back martial, have you met DDJ?
DDJ, this was the last guy to challenge the word of Jove


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> How about the Escape and Hunt for Azula...?!




:33 :33

That image is awesome! If only we got to see something of Azula after word...


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> How about the Escape and Hunt for Azula...?!



I wonder if Azula dies in prison....


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> I wonder if Azula dies in prison....



I heard that she's sent to a institute...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Nah, she just becomes friends with Pamela Isely and Harleen Quinzel


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Nah, she just becomes friends with Pamela Isely and Harleen Quinzel



Is all that sarcasm really necessary? Lighten up, get like Momo.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

I wasn't aware that was sarcasm


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I wasn't aware that was sarcasm



 What do you call it then?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

A cross-meta joke.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> A cross-meta joke.



What ever that is.:sweat

Ok, no hard feelings.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn teaming up with Azula would be all kinds of fun though


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn teaming up with Azula would be all kinds of fun though



That would be.....

There would always be this eerie feeling, that they all want to double cross each other.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 12, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> This sounds like he's trying to back out with his dignity intact.



LIttle late for that.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Hmmm, well, apparently The Last Airbender broke even(finally).
> 
> It's grossed 317,000,000.
> 
> ...



Oh...I want another. Who knows, knowing what he did wrong before might help him better it. I'm still convinced that Paramount was holding him back...


----------



## Stunna (Nov 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn teaming up with Azula would be all kinds of rape though


Yes it would.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 12, 2010)

TLA was between, enjoyable and bad IMO. If he were to make another I'd see it. You wouldn't see me paying full ticket price though.


----------



## Stunna (Nov 12, 2010)

TLA was bullcrap. 1 out of 5. I want my money back.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 12, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Oh...I want another. Who knows, knowing what he did wrong before might help him better it. I'm still convinced that Paramount was holding him back...



Oh for...

How many terrible movies does the man have to make before you stop making excuses for him? Go look up his rating on rottentomatoes.com It's a pretty constant downward spiral for everything after 6th sense. Airbender being the worst (6%).

The only one holding M. Night back is M. Night. And if he's learned anything from his mistakes it's only how to make the same ones bigger and more catastrophic. Just find an interview with the guy. He's got such an ego that _he doesn't think he makes mistakes_. He honestly believes that his movies are so amazing that critics just can't comprehend just how awesome they are! It's everyone else's fault, not his!

The man's a hack. He doesn't deserve to direct porn, much less another Hollywood film.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Oh for...
> 
> How many terrible movies does the man have to make before you stop making excuses for him? Go look up his rating on rottentomatoes.com It's a pretty constant downward spiral for everything after 6th sense. Airbender being the worst (6%).
> 
> ...


Didn't rottentomatoes give Twilight a good score? 

His other movies suck, but I liked Avatar. Yea, it could have been better, but I enjoyed it.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 12, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Didn't rottentomatoes give Twilight a good score?



No.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 12, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Oh for...
> 
> How many terrible movies does the man have to make before you stop making excuses for him? Go look up his rating on rottentomatoes.com It's a pretty constant downward spiral for everything after 6th sense. Airbender being the worst (6%).
> 
> ...


If M. Night directed porn, there'd be a lot of traps...


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

How much did they give Avatar? 

Nevermind, I don't mind much. I loved Eragon and that movie was labeled as terrible. Sure it twisted a lot, but I still enjoyed it...


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 12, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> How much did they give Avatar?
> 
> Nevermind, I don't mind much. I loved Eragon and that movie was labeled as terrible. Sure it twisted a lot, but I still enjoyed it...



Too bad, I'm answering ayway. 



And to be clear, Rottentomatoes doesn't actually rate the movies. They just accumulate the ratings of other critics and give the movie it's rating based on whether it was a "good" (fresh) or "bad" (rotten) review. 

Meaning only 6% percent of movie critics world wide thought Airbender was worth a shit.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 12, 2010)

First, when I clicked your link, it asked me to download a favicon..what is that?

I knew it...so they gave Twilight a better score. I don't trust a site that does that because I know for a fact how bad Twilight is...

Oh, I thank you for posting all of this, but...I'm still gonna like it


----------



## Wan (Nov 13, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Oh for...
> 
> How many terrible movies does the man have to make before you stop making excuses for him? Go look up his rating on rottentomatoes.com It's a pretty constant downward spiral for everything after 6th sense. Airbender being the worst (6%).
> 
> ...



Indeed.  Here's what he said when Vulture informed him of how The Last Airbender was panned:

"I don?t know what to say to that stuff. I bring as much integrity to the table as humanly possible. It must be a language thing, in terms of a particular accent, a storytelling accent. I can only see it this certain way and I don?t know how to think in another language. I think these are exactly the visions that are in my head, so I don?t know how to adjust it without being me. It would be like asking a painter to change to a completely different style. I don?t know."

So it's not any problem with his writing, how his characters are developed, or the acting.  That's all perfect, or at least, has "as much integrity as humanly possible", so it couldn't be better.  It's the critics and average filmgoers who just don't speak his "language" and don't get his style.  It's their fault they don't like the movie, not his!

Good lord, what an ego...


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

Okay, you guys hate it. Why can't I love it? Why can't I like something? If I followed the fad, I'd just be a tool. I loved the movie, except for the long bending movements and the fact that Paramount made M.Night cut the movie in half, it was still good.


----------



## Wan (Nov 13, 2010)

I have a problem with people liking the movie because that increases the chances of a sequel being made again by M. Night.  I'd rather resources be put towards stuff like Legend of Korra or a theatrical animated film set in the Avatar world than another M. Night Airbender movie.

And don't say that Paramount forced Shyamalan to do anything.  He had control over the movie; any and all of its failings are his doing.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

Actually...Paramount DID force him to cut his movie down because "children couldn't pay attention to anything longer than an hour".

Well then, you don't like it and I like it. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 13, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Actually...Paramount DID force him to cut his movie down because "children couldn't pay attention to anything longer than an hour".
> 
> Well then, you don't like it and I like it. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...


Where the heck are you even getting this? Pluto?


----------



## Noah (Nov 13, 2010)

M. Night never has a studio breathing down his neck. I remember reading some time ago that he has full creative control over his movies. If that's true, then everything we say about his talentless ass is 100% true. 

P.S: If you like this movie your opinion is, in fact, poop.


----------



## Wan (Nov 13, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Actually...Paramount DID force him to cut his movie down because "children couldn't pay attention to anything longer than an hour".





M. Night sure doesn't talk like he was forced to remove anything.  "All my movies are the Director's Cut".


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Where the heck are you even getting this? Pluto?



No, but Pluto is nice around these times... 

I provided the interview of it way back in this thread. The avatar site deletes all pieces, so it probably won't be there. But I can try xD



Noah said:


> P.S: If you like this movie your opinion is, in fact, poop.



Then I guess it is. Granted it could  have be way better, I still enjoyed it. Wasn't as big as a waste of money as Alice in Wonderland


----------



## Noah (Nov 13, 2010)

Oh! Now I remember. Mark Wahlberg was on Opie and Anthony promoting The Happening when it came out, and they asked him if it was a giant pile like The Village and Lady in the Water was. Wahlberg wouldn't answer (promoting his movie and all ), but said that if there's something wrong with it, it's because M.Night had full creative control over it. Then he went on a little mini-rant about how some people would make tiny suggestions or comments about a scene and he would tweak right the fuck out.

I'll have to try and find audio from that interview.

I miss O&A


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

Why aren't I allowed to like it? Does it bother you guys that much? I'm sure you guys like a lot of things that are deemed "terrible" but do I attack you for it?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 13, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> No, but Pluto is nice around these times...


I like Neptune better, Pluto's economy has been going down the gravity well ever since it's reclassification.

Oh yeah, and it's atmosphere is solid falling debris at this time of the year.


----------



## Stunna (Nov 13, 2010)

I respect your opinion...


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

Thank you Stunna! :33

@Reikai:
It became hard living on Pluto, so I moved to Jupiter. So much prettier.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 13, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Thank you Stunna! :33
> 
> @Reikai:
> It became hard living on Pluto, so I moved to Jupiter. So much prettier.


How the heck do you cope with the gravity there? 

I don't like Jupiter much, smells like old piss there. Like literally, all that ammonia in the atmosphere


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

I'm from Jupiter. I was born and raised there. We watch movies like Avatar all the time, and the gravity helps me train to beat Goku.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 13, 2010)

I do admit that Jupiter has good schools there, that is if you can cope with having about a few feet knocked off your height growing up there, and leathery skin.

Course, I like Neptune, and that's a gas giant too, so what do I know?


----------



## MartialHorror (Nov 13, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Ah good to see you back martial, have you met DDJ?
> DDJ, this was the last guy to challenge the word of Jove



Who's Jove again?



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Oh for...
> 
> How many terrible movies does the man have to make before you stop making excuses for him? Go look up his rating on rottentomatoes.com It's a pretty constant downward spiral for everything after 6th sense. Airbender being the worst (6%).
> 
> ...



People will always make excuses-er, defend him based on his previous successes(and I actually prefer Signs and Unbreakable to the Sixth Sense.....so yeah; and I dont mind The VIllage Either. 

But I agree with just about everyone else. It's hard to claim the studio hijacked the production when he keeps stressing he much creative control he has. Maybe calling him a hack is harsh. I think he could do great stuff still, but NOT WHEN HE HAS FULL CONTROL.

I did think "Devil" was pretty good, if that counts. So he should maybe back away from writing/directing for a little bit.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 13, 2010)

Jove is the mod and lead poster in this thread, come on MH


----------



## MartialHorror (Nov 13, 2010)

If he's the person I'm thinking of, he neg rep'ed me and ran away from a debate. So.......yeah, don't mess with Jove because of that whoever is trying to challenge him....unless he isn't who I'm thinking of, in which I simply dont remember.


----------



## Shade (Nov 13, 2010)

To be fair, anyone who considers TLA worth defending is generally a troll.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 13, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> If he's the person I'm thinking of, he neg rep'ed me and ran away from a debate. So.......yeah, don't mess with Jove because of that whoever is trying to challenge him....unless he isn't who I'm thinking of, in which I simply dont remember.



When?  What debates?  Links?

You remember almost every movie but this...


----------



## MartialHorror (Nov 13, 2010)

Mider T said:


> When?  What debates?  Links?
> 
> You remember almost every movie but this...



Yup, it was him. 8-18-2010. "Oh I get it. You're purposefully misunderstanding me."- Jove.

But it was in the Scott Pilgrim thread. No surprise there, as that fandom is an insecure lot. 

I remember a lot about movies, but I tend to forget everything else. lol.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 13, 2010)

Still haven't seen that movie...buuuuut that debate is just too juicy to miss so I'll search for it.

I also don't have any reps from that far back


----------



## The Potential (Nov 13, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> I remember a lot about movies, but I tend to forget everything else. lol.



Lol, I hear you bro. I'm the same way with surtain things.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 13, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> If he's the person I'm thinking of, he neg rep'ed me and ran away from a debate. So.......yeah, don't mess with Jove because of that whoever is trying to challenge him....unless he isn't who I'm thinking of, in which I simply dont remember.




I might have negged you, but I most certainly did not run away from any debate with you. If I remember, our debate simply faded naturally.




Terra Branford said:


> I'm from Jupiter. I was born and raised there. We watch movies like Avatar all the time, and the gravity helps me train to beat Goku.





ReikaiDemon said:


> I do admit that Jupiter has good schools there, that is if you can cope with having about a few feet knocked off your height growing up there, and leathery skin.
> 
> Course, I like Neptune, and that's a gas giant too, so what do I know?



I _am_ Jupiter.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 13, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Yup, it was him. 8-18-2010. "Oh I get it. You're purposefully misunderstanding me."- Jove.
> 
> But it was in the Scott Pilgrim thread. No surprise there, as that fandom is an insecure lot.
> 
> I remember a lot about movies, but I tend to forget everything else. lol.


I thought Scott Pilgrim fans were better than that. 


Jove said:


> I _am_ Jupiter.


...

*Imagines Jove in a sailor schoolgirl outfit*

Oh gawd!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 13, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I thought Scott Pilgrim fans were better than that.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...






Jove
noun \ˈjōv\
Definition of JOVE
: jupiter ?often used interjectionally to express surprise or agreement especially in the phrase by Jove
Origin of JOVE
Latin Jov-, Juppiter
First Known Use: 14th century
Rhymes with JOVE
clove, cove, drove, fauve, grove, mauve, rove, stove, trove


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

Shade said:


> To be fair, anyone who considers TLA worth defending is generally a troll.



I'm not a troll. I just have different opinions and different loves. If I went around lovin' what you guys loved and hatin' what I loved', then I'd just be your shadow and I'd be really depressed livin' the life of someone else.

@Jove:
You aren't Jupiter. I know Jupiter


----------



## The Potential (Nov 13, 2010)

In this Gif, Roku utilized all four bending disciplines. I noticed something about he's Firebending. It was quite large, Sozins Comet type large.

Either they just used that to showcase his elements, with no back bone to it. Or Roku is a strong ass Firebender.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 13, 2010)

I remember the audible gasps when they that came up in the trailer shown at the famous SDCC '07 panel. Chilling stuff.

But yes, the latter is the truth. Roku was a _strong_ bender. The pinnacle of all four elements during his time.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 13, 2010)

The second amazing thing about it is, he continued to stream each bending discipline without directly focusing on it.

Roku is one badass mofo.


*Spoiler*: __ 



 1K POST COUNT!!


----------



## Mider T (Nov 13, 2010)

Well I imagine that's one of the requirements to becoming a fully-realized Avatar.  I'd imagine Aang will learn metalbending and lightning sometime in his life.


----------



## MartialHorror (Nov 13, 2010)

Jove said:


> I might have negged you, but I most certainly did not run away from any debate with you. If I remember, our debate simply faded naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You negg'ed me and refused to respond to me again. In this thread, however, it faded naturally. 



> I thought Scott Pilgrim fans were better than that.



Meh, it's the same with any fandom that backs a movie that bombed or was unfairly panned thats reputation hasnt begun to age yet. 

To a point, TLA did that with Avatar fans, who (correctly) panicked thinking that the movie would ruin its reputation. Thats why phrases like 'whoever liked the movie is a troll' get thrown around.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 13, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> You negg'ed me and refused to respond to me again. In this thread, however, it faded naturally.



I'd imagine so, since the Scott Pilgrim thread came after this one, so I knew where a debate in that one portended. And since I'm not a Scott Pilgrim fan, just a sympathizer, we'd be arguing concepts and I certainly had no interest in taking that any further.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 13, 2010)

Why are you whining about a neg? I would say take it on the chin but it's not even something that should bother you.

Also Jove you shouldn't entertain his immaturity.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 13, 2010)

At age 54 Jove is certainly the oldest poster in this thread but a valuable part of this community. His contributions to this thread are endless.
If you've never listened to archives of his show, you're doing yourself a disservice. 
Much bigger music geek than myself and his voice sounds like David Cross performing Tobias Fünke.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

Anyway...

I hope we see something about Korra by the end of this year. At least another GIF or something. Another art piece or a interview...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 13, 2010)

Holy fuck, someone has listened to my show? 

Hey SS, you'll be interested to know that myself, and legitimate forum legends delirium and dr. boskov krevorkian have been recording podcast radio shows. 

Three MDers that are Blender friendly and adore Avatar.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 13, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> You negg'ed me and refused to respond to me again. In this thread, however, it faded naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Huh, I thought the movie was pretty good, it was faithful while still taking liberties with the source.


Superstarseven said:


> At age 54 Jove is certainly the oldest poster in this thread but a valuable part of this community. His contributions to this thread are endless.
> If you've never listened to archives of his show, you're doing yourself a disservice.
> Much bigger music geek than myself and his voice sounds like David Cross performing Tobias F?nke.


Fifty four? Jove, you cradle robber you


----------



## Mider T (Nov 13, 2010)

Jove said:


> Holy fuck, someone has listened to my show?
> 
> Hey SS, you'll be interested to know that myself, and legitimate forum legends delirium and dr. boskov krevorkian have been recording podcast radio shows.
> 
> Three MDers that are Blender friendly and adore Avatar.



Fuck you Jove

_Fuck you_


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 13, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Fifty four? Jove, you cradle robber you



I most certainly am not. 

Though one of the biggest Avatarlings I know is my 49 year-old aunt. Without her young daughter, I probably never would have found Avatar.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 13, 2010)

Yeah, that fire blast looks a little too awesome even for the Avatar.


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## MartialHorror (Nov 13, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Why are you whining about a neg? I would say take it on the chin but it's not even something that should bother you.
> 
> Also Jove you shouldn't entertain his immaturity.



I'm not whining about a neg. Speaking of immaturity, as you completely took this issue out of context, you're probably one of those bandwagon jumper debators. You know, the ones who leach on other people's respect so you look good too.

I say this because if you read what lead up to this, I made a neutral post involving TLA finally breaking even. Someone responded with something like: "This was the last guy to challenge the word of Jove". 

So apparently not only does Jove have a lot of respect(which to be fair, I do remember enjoying arguing with him until that SP battle), but apparently he beat me somehow(hence, my absence).

So I responded that Jove just neg'ed me and ran away in our last debate. Jove claimed he didn't run(he just happened to cease posting). Jove's response to me(now) actually pretty much difused the situation, and I was willing to accept that. Your comment just pissed me off. No, your comment only exists to piss me off. hence, you're a troll.

I'm completely willing to end it here, Gunnars. If you want to respond, you're just fanning the flames.



> Huh, I thought the movie was pretty good, it was faithful while still taking liberties with the source.



Are you talking about Scott Pilgrim or are you being sarcastic about TLA. If it;s the latter, keep in mind that some will honestly think that way. If they believe that, they are not a troll. If they dont and are just trying to piss you off, then they are.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 13, 2010)

Ohhhh, ok, I just checked the Scott Pilgrim thread. We weren't even really arguing about the movie. I just brought up a related point about how the word hipster is misused these days, since Scott Pilgrim is anything but a hipster, he just listen to music hipsters listen to, ie: he's just an indie kid. Obviously, it hits close to home for me.

But anyway, it was merely that you misconstrued what I said have any relevance to what people were talking about in the thread, when it was a total non-sequitor diatribe.


As for the word of me... ehhh, that's just the way Nøøps posts.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 13, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Are you talking about Scott Pilgrim or are you being sarcastic about TLA. If it;s the latter, keep in mind that some will honestly think that way. If they believe that, they are not a troll. If they dont and are just trying to piss you off, then they are.


Scott Pilgrim, felt it captured the spirit of the series really well.


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## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

I guess one has to read Scott Pilgrim to know why the movie skipped the way it did...


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## Shade (Nov 13, 2010)

I didn't say I had a problem with people liking the movie, but when you try to defend it, then it's just trollish. If you compare any aspect of this movie (e.g. martial arts, action-adventure aimed at kids, special effects, music) to ones which have had similar elements, you'll notice this movie was outdone in just about every respect. All you have going for it is your preference for the show and the bits of it that have been retained, which isn't a compliment to the movie, but to the show.


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## Superstarseven (Nov 13, 2010)

I'd like to know when exactly Emo, scene and Goth formed an unholy alliance. People apparently cannot distinguish between the three. I'm not sure when that happened, perhaps around 2004-2005?
Anyway someone said something about Hipsters so I have to link to an old favorite.

[YOUTUBE]
Link 2[/YOUTUBE]


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## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

Why would defending something be labeled as trollish? Are you a troll for defending the opinion of the movie being bad? I certainly don't think so, nor would I ever.

The idea of such a thing meaning troll is just absurd to me. I thought trolls were something completely different....


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## MartialHorror (Nov 13, 2010)

> Ohhhh, ok, I just checked the Scott Pilgrim thread. We weren't even really arguing about the movie. I just brought up a related point about how the word hipster is misused these days, since Scott Pilgrim is anything but a hipster, he just listen to music hipsters listen to, ie: he's just an indie kid. Obviously, it hits close to home for me.
> 
> But anyway, it was merely that you misconstrued what I said have any relevance to what people were talking about in the thread, when it was a total non-sequitor diatribe.
> 
> ...



I'm aware, although I dont see how that justifies or explains anything.



> I didn't say I had a problem with people liking the movie, but when you try to defend it, then it's just trollish. If you compare any aspect of this movie (e.g. martial arts, action-adventure aimed at kids, special effects, music) to ones which have had similar elements, you'll notice this movie was outdone in just about every respect. All you have going for it is your preference for the show and the bits of it that have been retained, which isn't a compliment to the movie, but to the show.



Er, what? Defending it isn't trolling, as I said, unless you're being dishonest and trying to piss people off. Saying 'it's been outdone by other movies' means NOTHING. "The Burning" is a slasher that is beaten in terms of gore, writing, direction, nudity, etc by other notable slashers. That still doesn't mean I wouldn't defend it if I liked it(which I do). 

I didn't like TLA, but I didnt really hate it either. I have a soft spot for spectacles and if I think its been hated on unfairly, I'll defend it. Honestly, I think what you're doing is a bit more troll'ish than anything a fan of the movie(all......1 of them? Terra...yeah, Terra) is doing. 

I guess that means everyone who likes and defends any movie is a troll. Or wait, no, apparently YOUR standards of film is what matters. Too bad, because I was going to call everyone in this thread a troll for defending a cartoon....because you know, other cartoons have better plots, animation, action, comedy, etc.



> Scott Pilgrim, felt it captured the spirit of the series really well.



Oh, well, it's not that people are hating the movie. It's just that certain fans get all agitated when you state anything less-than-perfect about it. I honestly can't wait to see the movie. The response should be......interesting.


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## Burke (Nov 13, 2010)

@Jove wait... how old are you



Jove said:


> As for the word of me... ehhh, that's just the way Nøøps posts.



Over exaggerated praise that borders on sarcasm?
Oh Jove 

@EveryoneIGuess 
I can say that i am one of the people who loved scott pilgrim vs the world, and wonders why in the world noone saw it.
It was seriously miles better than the expendables, and that showed in proffessional critic reviews. It just boggles me.


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## Terra Branford (Nov 13, 2010)

I saw it, I just didn't get it. It was good, and a little funny. But I couldn't get what was going on xD


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## Shade (Nov 14, 2010)

MartialHorror said:


> Er, what? Defending it isn't trolling, as I said, unless you're being dishonest and trying to piss people off. Saying 'it's been outdone by other movies' means NOTHING. "The Burning" is a slasher that is beaten in terms of gore, writing, direction, nudity, etc by other notable slashers. That still doesn't mean I wouldn't defend it if I liked it(which I do).
> I didn't like TLA, but I didnt really hate it either. I have a soft spot for spectacles and if I think its been hated on unfairly, I'll defend it. Honestly, I think what you're doing is a bit more troll'ish than anything a fan of the movie(all......1 of them? Terra...yeah, Terra) is doing.



You could defend it all you want (to no end if its been done better before). When you come to a thread and talk about a movie that's pretty much universally panned here and take the side of the person who made that happen, I consider that trolling. You know we're not very big fans of M. Night here and you've scuffled with people here in the past for trying to defend him.  Defending something devoid of merit is meaningless, and thus the post has no reason to be there, which is in the troll spectrum.

Do people here generally want to talk about the movie's failures anymore or would they rather pretend it didn't happen because it's a stain on the show's name? Knowing full well we don't care for the movie, you come here and praise the person who's the reason behind its failure. You reached a stalemate on that point with the most wordy member here so I don't think you were really expecting it to be a point of discussion for any of the rest of us either. I'm not instigating you're not allowed to post wherever you want in a forum, but when you do it without reason and know people might be pissed off because of it, that's trolling to me.



> I guess that means everyone who likes and defends any movie is a troll. Or wait, no, apparently YOUR standards of film is what matters.



Glaring straw man aside...



> Too bad, because I was going to call everyone in this thread a troll for defending a cartoon....because you know, other cartoons have better plots, animation, action, comedy, etc.



Oh, but do they?


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## MartialHorror (Nov 14, 2010)

Er, for the record, I apologize for bringing up the Jove thing. It was kind of petty and I nearly sparked a flame war for it.

As for Shade though,



> You could defend it all you want (to no end if its been done better before). When you come to a thread and talk about a movie that's pretty much universally panned here and take the side of the person who made that happen, I consider that trolling. You know we're not very big fans of M. Night here and you've scuffled with people here in the past for trying to defend him. Defending something devoid of merit is meaningless, and thus the post has no reason to be there, which is in the troll spectrum.



Having controversial opinions and expressing them is not trolling. Furthermore, you're confusing your opinion with fact with phrases like 'devoid of merit'. What gives you the right to set in stone somethings quality?



> Do people here generally want to talk about the movie's failures anymore or would they rather pretend it didn't happen because it's a stain on the show's name? Knowing full well we don't care for the movie, you come here and praise the person who's the reason behind its failure. You reached a stalemate on that point with the most wordy member here so I don't think you were really expecting it to be a point of discussion for any of the rest of us either. I'm not instigating you're not allowed to post wherever you want in a forum, but when you do it without reason and know people might be pissed off because of it, that's trolling to me.



LOL! This is what I mean when I say the fandom is insecure. You try to pretend the movie doesn't exist because of its effect on the cartoon....which is none. If anything, it actually has gotten more people to watch the cartoon out of curiosity(people thinking the movie is pure shit so want to see why everyones loves the cartoon; they check it out based on curiosity).

And it's not really trolling regardless. You can say "that is what it is to me" all you want. You're changing a definition. 



> Oh, but do they?



Yes.

Here is some food for thought. Movies that are popular now were once panned. If I went to Blade Runners detractors and tried to explain why it's a good movie, would that make me a troll? 

There's too many holes in your logic. Based on it, you can't say anything bad about a movie everyone loves, and vice versa.


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## Shade (Nov 14, 2010)

Again, I didn't say you don't have the right to come here and express your opinion, just that when your intention behind doing so is to incite flames, it's a troll post. And as for 'devoid of merit', if we have seen the same movie and you consider the label unfitting, then it says more about your taste than the quality of the movie. And this is what 'universally panned' means: 





When a movie is critically and commercially successful, do you not consider someone who flames it without providing a reason to be a troll? Then the opposite is also true. And as for M. Night, despite what he may have done in the past, to call him anything but a hack, now that he's proven to everyone what sort of movie he makes with full creative control and solid base material, is absurd. 

And if you're going to use examples, you'll have to do better than Blade Runner. That movie was never so fervently panned as this movie was. And please do enlighten me on a cartoon series that outdoes ATLA in all its aspects.


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## Superstarseven (Nov 14, 2010)

The Care Bears, obviously.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 14, 2010)

We need to work out some kind of Fantasy Football system for upcoming Avatar series.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 14, 2010)

I suppose that Ozai's fate, to have his bending ability removed and to be imprisoned, was fitting for him, but I did not like how Aang, Toph, Sokka, and Suki, all of whom are children and adolescents, stood over him, a grown adult, relatively unharmed, and taunted him. I do not care if he was a brutal tyrant and their enemy, I believe that the protagonists should have been far more respectful to Ozai and allowed him to keep his dignity, especially considering that he was more than twice their age.

And while I am on that subject, did anyone else not like it how none of the protagonists died, nor suffered any severe injuries? I like the protagonists, and I am glad that they survived, but that seems to be slightly _too_ happy of an ending for the series, especially considering that it focused on a war between powerful factions with awesome supernatural power. Surely, perhaps one or several of the old masters dying for the future generation would have been acceptable, or should I attribute the overly-positive conclusion to the fact that this series is aimed at a young demographic?

Also on that subject, when Hama and the other water-benders were imprisoned by the Fie Nation, the soldiers were very careful to not allow any water near the prisoners, to keep their limbs restrained, and to feed them with poles. However, apart from the target age demographic of the series, how did the Fire Nation soldiers prevent the water-benders from using their own bodily fluids, such as blood and urine, as a source of water for their art? That was a desperate situation, and thus would require desperate measures for survival, but perhaps the water-benders were simply so crushed by despair and broken in will that they no longer desired to fight?

As I have stated before, I have noticed similarities between certain characters in _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ and in the _Teen Titans_ animated series, as both are (in my mind) exceptionally good western animated series aimed at the same audience and have a number of other similarities, as well. To be more specific, the similarities that I noticed are as follows:

*Aang-->Beast Boy;* both are among the youngest members of their teams, both are fun-loving and usually not very serious.

*Sokka-->Cyborg:* not as obvious as the above, or the below, examples, but both are the older males in their groups and often more serious than the younger males. Both are also adept at working with items and technology and both also have had a great amount of on-screen romantic relationships with female characters.

*Zuko-->Robin:* both are very driven in their work, both are very serious, to the point that their friends and companions stated that they needed to relax or that they were being to extreme. Both also pursue another major character in the series (Slade for Robin, and Aang for Zuko) for the first season of their respective series.

*Ty Lee-->Starfire:* both are very cheerful and optimistic in their personalities, but often are socially awkward or unaware of the customs of other cultures.

*Mai-->Raven:* both are very serious, although in the same way as Zuko and Robin, display almost no emotion, and also serve as the straight person to Ty Lee and Starfire's comical personae.

*Toph-->Terra:* both can manipulate earth and stone, although their personalities are not perfectly identical.

*Azula-->Blackfire:* each of these characters is the sister of a main protagonist and was always the more favored sibling, although their desire for power is great and their mental stability is questionable.

Other similarities may exist, but those are the most noticeable ones, and some characters, such as Katara, have no clear counterpart in the other series. I know that similarities between characters in different series are not uncommon, but rarely are there such a great number of similarities between the characters of different series as there are here. Has anyone else here noticed these similarities, or others that I have not mentioned here?


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## Gunners (Nov 14, 2010)

> I suppose that Ozai's fate, to have his bending ability removed and to be imprisoned, was fitting for him, but I did not like how Aang, Toph, Sokka, and Suki, all of whom are children and adolescents, stood over him, a grown adult, relatively unharmed, and taunted him. I do not care if he was a brutal tyrant and their enemy, I believe that the protagonists should have been far more respectful to Ozai and allowed him to keep his dignity, especially considering that he was more than twice their age.


Why would they show him respect? He was burning down the Earth Kingdom with a grin on his face. With regards to Sokka he has a good reason to hate him as he is represents the individuals who took the life of his mother. 



> And while I am on that subject, did anyone else not like it how none of the protagonists died, nor suffered any serve injuries? I like the protagonists, and I am glad that they survived, but that seems to be slightly too happy of an ending for the series, especially considering that it focused on a war between powerful factions with awesome supernatural power. Surely, perhaps one or several of the old masters dying for the future generation would have been acceptable, or should I attribute the overly-positive conclusion to the fact that this series is aimed at a young demographic?


What do you mean by serious injuries? Obviously none of the characters got crippled but I'm pretty sure the lightning bolt Zuko took shaved some years off his life expectancy. With regards to Sokka he broke his leg.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 14, 2010)

All the main characters, kneeling in a bathtub full of boiling hot blood, kowtowing to Ozai.

That's the ending.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 14, 2010)

Jove said:


> All the main characters, kneeling in a bathtub full of boiling hot blood, kowtowing to Ozai.
> 
> That's the ending.


If you mess up the quick time events on your TV remote


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## Burke (Nov 14, 2010)

N??ps said:


> @Jove wait... how old are you



The question cannot be avoided


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 14, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> If you mess up the quick time events on your TV remote



T'is true.

And if you play the episode backwards, Ozai wins, everyone retreats to Ember Island, Ozai is crowned Emperor of the World, and then he goes over his Earth Kingdom Decimation plan with his trusted Generals as a celebration.


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## Koi (Nov 14, 2010)

Also

HONOOOOOOOR!


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 14, 2010)

Jove said:


> T'is true.
> 
> And if you play the episode backwards, Ozai wins, everyone retreats to Ember Island, Ozai is crowned Emperor of the World, and then he goes over his Earth Kingdom Decimation plan with his trusted Generals as a celebration.


That's a secret Trophy/Achievement


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 14, 2010)

Koi said:


> Also
> 
> HONOOOOOOOR!


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 14, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Why would they show him respect? He was burning down the Earth Kingdom with a grin on his face. With regards to Sokka he has a good reason to hate him as he is represents the individuals who took the life of his mother.



I suppose that you have a good point there, so even if I do not agree with your opinion, I shall respect it.



Gunners said:


> What do you mean by serious injuries? Obviously none of the characters got crippled but I'm pretty sure the lightning bolt Zuko took shaved some years off his life expectancy. With regards to Sokka he broke his leg.



Yes, but the characters were _fighting a war,_ and wars very often have casualties, so I still wish that at least one major protagonist had died during the final battle.

While I am discussing that subject, why is it that Zhao and Combustion Man's deaths were shown on-screen, while Jet's death was very ambiguous until it was clarified in the _Avatar Extras?_ Did the creators wish for it to initially be more mysterious?


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## Koi (Nov 15, 2010)

I would date the hell out of Wang Fire.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 15, 2010)

You don't _date_ Wang Fire.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 15, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I suppose that you have a good point there, so even if I do not agree with your opinion, I shall respect it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right, so, I guess if the world took Hitler alive, then we should've gave him a fucking banquet or something. And while we're at it, we can send him to Brazil to live out the rest of his day comfortably. 

Well, why would it be realistic if one of the main characters died? WHY? There's plenty of wars where generals and top soldiers DIDN'T die. Also, that was just the final battle/invasion of the war, there have been battles in wars where few people died.

And would it honestly add or detract from a series to make it a bit less "realistic"?

And there's no damn point in debating changes to the series now, _it's been two years_, and you don't have any creative power over the series anyways.

Demanding changes to the series because of what you think should happen sounds a lot like a certain Indian we all know. What you think what happens for sure in war does not make it so, nor is it relevant; it's not their aim to make a cartoon exactly like the world. Royalty engage in i*c*st in other Kingdoms to contain the reach of their rule to their family; does that mean Avatar would be a shit show if Ozai wasn't married to his sister? The Qin emperor drank mercury to prolong his own life, should the Firelords or the Earth King do that because they are an allegorical equivalent of ancient China? Common ancient peoples have bad teeth, should every character have yellow crooked chompers?

I don't understand why you'd stop at the whole war thing, and not everything else that was "wrong" about this series. The thing is, I don't think you're enjoying this series more than you are complaining that it isn't LIKE other series, or LIFE. 

I think it would be succinctly summed up as one big "So what?"

Seriously, it's just superfluous details, that do nothing to enforce the already solid narrative of the show. Sure, a couple of tassels on those nipples might make things a little more pleasant, but really, it can do fine with, and fine without; because it is just a pointless detail.

And as for the onscreen deaths, executive meddling, that is all.


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## Koi (Nov 15, 2010)

Jove said:


> You don't _date_ Wang Fire.



..Well then.  What do we.. _do_? /suggestive eyebrow wiggle


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## Noah (Nov 15, 2010)

Koi said:


> ..Well then.  What do we.. _do_? /suggestive eyebrow wiggle



_You_ stay silent, adore him and do whatever he says.

_He_ just does.


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## Koi (Nov 15, 2010)

I'm assuming they don't call him _*Wang*_ fire for nothing, then.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 15, 2010)




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## Wan (Nov 15, 2010)

You know, I've been thinking.  When it comes to the sequence of events, the movie that shall not be named was fairly faithful to the series.  In fact, I could have actually enjoyed the movie, even if still disappointed, if only one thing had been better- the writing.  My god, the writing. 

"We could be friends, you know."

"Earthbenders! Why are you acting this way? You are powerful and amazing people! You don't need to live like this! There is earth right beneath your feet! The ground is an extension of who you are!"

"There are a lot of pretty girls here Zuko. You could settle down here, and you could have a blessed life. You don't have to continue this Zuko."

"We have to show them that we believe in our beliefs as much as they believe in theirs."

"Aang? Can you hear me? I knew you were real. I always knew you'd return."


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## MartialHorror (Nov 15, 2010)

Shade said:


> Again, I didn't say you don't have the right to come here and express your opinion, just that when your intention behind doing so is to incite flames, it's a troll post. And as for 'devoid of merit', if we have seen the same movie and you consider the label unfitting, then it says more about your taste than the quality of the movie. And this is what 'universally panned' means:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1) As you indicate that sparking a flame war was my intent and probably think the same of Terra, then you're obviously wrong. You make presumptions that people are doing that based on YOUR opinions of the film. The problem with calling people 'trolls' is that soon you tend to throw that term out at anyone who simply disagrees with you, which you appear to be doing.

2) Er, how does that effect my tastes in film? I can find good things in movies far worse than TLA. Example, Troll has some unique and interesting special effects. Troll 2(the so called worst movie ever) has moments of decent photography. TLA has good set design and also some ambitious photography. This stuff might not be able to make the movie good, but it's certainly there. So I just proved that the film is not 'devoid of merit' as you say. Now you can respond in 2 ways

- That it still doesnt stop the film from sucking, which I more-or-less already said.

-I'm wrong. If you do respond with this, make sure you have a pretty damn argument about it, otherwise you'll once again fail to see the subjectivity of your opinions.

3) Also, dont throw that 'universallly panned' shit at me. For one, using the critics as an example is meaningless. Much like the troll name calling, you tend to have people proclaiming the critics words as correct but then turn on them as soon as they hate a movie you like. I've already told you that classics today were panned at the time of their release. Granted, I doubt this will happen with TLA. But it goes to show that argument is pointless.

4) 





> When a movie is critically and commercially successful, do you not consider someone who flames it without providing a reason to be a troll? Then the opposite is also true. And as for M. Night, despite what he may have done in the past, to call him anything but a hack, now that he's proven to everyone what sort of movie he makes with full creative control and solid base material, is absurd.



Depends. Sometimes, a person might just be THAT pissed off at the movie. A troll is just somebody who posts simply for the sake of pissing someone off. Kind of like Gunnars post about me. 

If you want to hate M. Night for his recent works, then fine. But to state that 'calling him anything else but a hack is absurd' is arrogant. Example, here is how I look at a directors quality. If their good movies impress me more than their bad movies piss me off, I'll like them. One of my favorite directors is Lucio Fulci, an Italian horror director(speaking of being panned at the time...). I love him for his greater works, and even for his more uneven works. But he's also made some unwatchable shit. Unfortunately, he probably has more bad stuff than good stuff. But I call myself a fan because of his good stuff, and if he were alive, I'd still support him in hopes that he will make one final good movie(he died in 94, but after years of awful movies in a row, he churned out one pretty good movie before he died). 

I feel the same way with M. Night. He obviously has talent, because multiple good movies in a row isnt luck. But he's some bad movies too(although honestly, I've only hated one). But since he's made some movies that I like, I'll have hope he'll turn out a good one even if he continues to make more crappy movies. Honestly, I think he has a Goerge Lucas complex(he has good ideas and such, he just needs someone else to help filter the bad. But since he's become popular, he doesnt think he needs one).

So you telling me I should feel otherwise is a bit........off-putting. Being negative like that, to me, is just pointless.  



> And if you're going to use examples, you'll have to do better than Blade Runner. That movie was never so fervently panned as this movie was. And please do enlighten me on a cartoon series that outdoes ATLA in all its aspects.



Pretty much every horror film prior to the 90's(obviously there were exceptions) was panned when it was released. Some great movies they were too(Curse of Frankenstein baby!). With that said, I wont deny that TLA will probably always be remembered as a bad movie. My whole point was that 'universally panned' is a shaky claim. 

As for what TV shows outdo Avatar. Give me a little time on that, because honestly, I'm not a big TV person. Anyway, does anime count? 

(I will also say, for the record, that I do love the show and do consider it one of the best of our time. But I'm sure I can find shows that beat it in either animations, martial arts, plot and comedy)


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## Superstarseven (Nov 15, 2010)

I already answered what shows outdo Avatar for you, MartialHorror.
Care Bears was indeed the right answer.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Nov 15, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> While I am discussing that subject, why is it that Zhao and Combustion Man's deaths were shown on-screen, while Jet's death was very ambiguos until it was clarified in the _Avatar Extras?_ Did the creators wish for it to initially be more mysterious?


Jet is a teenager, a "kid."
Zhao and Combustion Man are adults.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 15, 2010)

I don't know what show you guys have been watching, but Neither Zhao or Combustion Man's deaths were shown on-screen.


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## Burke (Nov 15, 2010)

Martial and DDJ, team up and fight Jove in a words battle 



DemonDragonJ said:


> While I am discussing that subject, why is it that Zhao and Combustion Man's deaths were shown on-screen, while Jet's death was very ambiguos until it was clarified in the _Avatar Extras?_ Did the creators wish for it to initially be more mysterious?



Cause hes alive
/trolled


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## Stunna (Nov 15, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I don't know what show you guys have been watching, but Neither Zhao or Combustion Man's deaths were shown on-screen.


lol



DemonDragonJ said:


> While I am discussing that subject, why is it that Zhao and Combustion Man's deaths were shown on-screen, while Jet's death was very ambiguos until it was clarified in the _Avatar Extras?_ Did the creators wish for it to initially be more mysterious?


Actually, Jet's death was practically confirmed in the same episode. I think it was Smellerbee who said that Jet will be alright, and then the Gaang walked off. Toph walked up beside Sokka and said "She's lying".


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## Koi (Nov 15, 2010)

I feel like I was one of the few who didn't think Jet's death was ambiguous?


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 15, 2010)

Koi said:


> I feel like I was one of the few who didn't think Jet's death was ambiguous?



No, I thought Jet's death was pretty damn obvious too. In fact, I didn't realize there was any confusion about it until the joke about it in "Ember Island Players". Even then, I only found out that that joke was put in because people thought's Jet's death wasn't clear. Which I found a bit bewildering. 

To be perfectly honest, both Zhao's and Combustion Man's death's were a lot more ambiguous than Jet's was. I thought Toph's "He's lying" to Jet's "I'lll be fine" made it pretty clear what the score was. On the other hand, we only see Zhao get dragged off by the ocean spirit. There's never a clear conclusion to what happens to him. Did he get dragged into the spirit world (like Hei-Bei did to Sokka)? Did he get drowned? Did the spirit just drag him back to the oasis and he's now a prisoner of the Northern Tribe?

Heck, Zhao's "death" was unclear enough that "Ruftoon" (one of the storyboarders/fanartists) made her own "Zhao if the watertribe" fancomic about Zhao having his memory erased and becoming part of the watertribe. 

Then there's Combustion Man. He's been at the heart of his own explosion before. So that's obviously enough to kill him. Though it is implied that he fell into the canyon below. But, honestly, how many characters in Avatar have fallen a great distance without getting hurt. ...that would be just about all of them. So for all we now, he's sitting injured, armless and pissed off at the bottom of that canyon. Just waiting for a fanfic writer to drag him back for a chance at revenge.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 15, 2010)

Koi said:


> I feel like I was one of the few who didn't think Jet's death was ambiguous?



What the?!

I didn't know he died! I thought it just left it off to interpretation!


----------



## The Potential (Nov 15, 2010)

Yes Terra, He's dead.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 15, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Yes Terra, He's dead.


Worms are eating his head


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 15, 2010)

I didn't think he died...

I am sad now.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 15, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I didn't think he died...
> 
> I am sad now.



You never watched Avatar extras, Terra?


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 15, 2010)

No, I never got to. Mider (or was it Jove?) mentioned Extras a long time ago and I was like "wat?"


----------



## The Potential (Nov 15, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> No, I never got to. Mider (or was it Jove?) mentioned Extras a long time ago and I was like "wat?"



Well It's pretty much director commentary episodes. They confirmed Jet's death on there, during the Ember Island Players Episode.




*Spoiler*: __ 



 This thread has 19K+ replies!!! Thats the most in KT! Man Avatar is popular.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 15, 2010)

Ah man that is depressing...at least he died a hero


----------



## The Potential (Nov 16, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Ah man that is depressing...at least he died a hero



Indeed he did.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 16, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Indeed he did.



I always wondered why he didn't reappear....Avatar killed of a good character. I will miss him even though it happened a long time ago.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 16, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I always wondered why he didn't reappear....Avatar killed of a good character. I will miss him even though it happened a long time ago.



Jet will forever be in our hearts.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 16, 2010)

Now as to the fate of Smellerbee and Longshot...can't help with that.
Worst case scenario - they were killed also.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 16, 2010)

No! Not Smellerbee!


----------



## Burke (Nov 16, 2010)

Yeah smellerbee and longshot were perfectly fine, they didnt take a rock to the ... whole body.

I doubt


----------



## JellyButter (Nov 16, 2010)

I want ZukoxKatara


----------



## Wan (Nov 16, 2010)

JellyButter said:


> I want ZukoxKatara



Well you ain't gettin it.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 16, 2010)




----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 17, 2010)

There's a great reason as to why the posters in the Zuko x Katara fanclub don't overlap with the people who post here.


----------



## Noah (Nov 17, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> There's a great reason as to why the posters in the Zuko x Katara fanclub don't overlap with the people who post here.



Oh! Oh!

Is it because they can't pass the mandatory IQ test?!


----------



## Koi (Nov 17, 2010)

All I see is Michael Steele.


Also, does anyone have a link to this one fanart, that.. it's like, a collection of smaller Avatar-related drawings?  It's a long, vertical image that includes the Gaang with different pokeymans?  I thought I had it saved, but I was wrong.


----------



## Wan (Nov 17, 2010)

Shortpacked on Bruce Wayne's recent announcement.

Everyone who thought that keeping scenes that were cut would have made the movie better...you're wrong.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 17, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> WOW Gold
> 
> Everyone who thought that keeping scenes that were cut would have made the movie better...you're wrong.



Whatever you just tried to do, you did it wrong.


----------



## Wan (Nov 17, 2010)

Oops.  Fixed.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 17, 2010)

And to take the edge off that. Here's a preview of the Rifftrax

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39zOCnMb2DA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 17, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> here.
> 
> Everyone who thought that keeping scenes that were cut would have made the movie better...you're wrong.


This is a joke right?

Why are they doing a Wing Chun exercise?

And that water attack was sloooow.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 17, 2010)

There's this guy on Deviantart who spams up the comments section of new Avatar fanart asking people to please sign a petition for Paramount to release an uncut edition of this film. He's relentless and doesn't reply back if you leave a message for him. After seeing that crap, there is absolutely no way this travesty could be improved. 

That scene showed why Sifu Kisu was originally asking for 6 months to train with all the actors in the Kung Fu disciplines. Wing Chun, seriously?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 17, 2010)

Ugh, dreadful. What compelled M. Night to direct these kinds of performances. The tension in the actor's performances sound like repression. And with that Noah Ringer backstage video, we know that's exactly what it is.


----------



## Koi (Nov 17, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> here.
> 
> Everyone who thought that keeping scenes that were cut would have made the movie better...you're wrong.



What.

The fuck.


----------



## Noah (Nov 17, 2010)

Sweet Jesus.

Everything about this movie is bad. Literally, everything.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 17, 2010)

To mark the upcoming release of M. Nights latest DVD release "The Last Airbender" (which rates a whoping 6% on rottentomatoes.com), I would like to share my theories on WTF happened to this once promising director.

(note: for the sake of redundancy, all scenarios take place during the filming of "Signs". Which explains why it's a good movie up until the terrible ending.)

‎1) He contracted a brain parasite that's been slowly eating away at his grey matter. Hence the steadily decreasing quality of each subsequent film. 

2) He murdered the person that actually wrote Sixth Sense and Unbreakable and stole the wor...k as his own after hiding the body (Signs was unfinished).

3) He's a pod person. The real M. Night was Killed by aliens and replaced by a bodysnatcher. This would explain why (especially in "The Last Airbender") and doesn't actually "get" how humans are supposed to interact... On any level (wether it be how they talk to each other, both in the emotional inflection and the actual content of the dialogue, or in how they respond to thins happening around them). Nor does the alien piloting its M. Night shell really undrestand how we, as a species, actually tell a story. It's trying it's damnedest, but it just can't quite get it. 

In reality, it's probably a combination of all three.


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 17, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> here.
> 
> Everyone who thought that keeping scenes that were cut would have made the movie better...you're wrong.



That has got to be the chillest water I've ever seen.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 17, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> here.
> 
> Everyone who thought that keeping scenes that were cut would have made the movie better...you're wrong.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 17, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> here.
> 
> Everyone who thought that keeping scenes that were cut would have made the movie better...you're wrong.



My ears are bleeding...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 17, 2010)

The kids sound so bored, like kids in public school


----------



## ElementX (Nov 18, 2010)

I wonder how his kids (who he claims loved the series as much as he did) felt about the movie?


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 18, 2010)

If they have any sense they went to stay with grandma over the summer and never came back.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 18, 2010)

Watching the Ember Island Players again, this episode is probably the most hilarious because of all the characters reactions and just listening to the jokes without thinking of anything else.  Anybody got a link to all of the screenshots?



Nizuma Eiji said:


> If they have any sense they went to stay with grandma over the summer and never came back.


----------



## Stalin (Nov 18, 2010)

Bad movies aren't worth hating, unless you channel that hatred through snarking. the worst part  about bad adaptations is the fan bitching. I'm not trying to bash anyone but fanboy and girls are really whiny about bad adaptations.


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Nov 18, 2010)

I honestly didn't even think of that.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 19, 2010)

Does anyone here believe that Azula may possibly be able to regain her sanity or reconcile with such people as Zuko, Mai, or Ty Lee (I highly doubt that she will ever reconcile with Aang, Sokka, Toph, Suki, or Katara)? I know that she was very effective as a villain, and I enjoyed seeing her torment the heroes, but I do believe that she is not completely evil and does have a chance, however small, at redemption.

What does everyone else believe? Do you even want to see Azula regain her sanity and reconcile with the other characters?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 19, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Does anyone here believe that Azula may possibly be able to regain her sanity or reconcile with such people as Zuko, Mai, or Ty Lee (I highly doubt that she will ever reconcile with Aang, Sokka, Toph, Suki, or Katara)? I know that she was very effective as a villain, and I enjoyed seeing her torment the heroes, but I do believe that she is not completely evil and does have a chance, however small, at redemption.
> 
> What does everyone else believe? Do you even want to see Azula regain her sanity and reconcile with the other characters?



Well, I am currently on chapter 31 of a fanfic I've been writing specifically about Azula's fate after the war. 

So in other words. No.


----------



## Tomasu H. (Nov 19, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Well, I am currently on chapter 31 of a fanfic I've been writing specifically about Azula's fate after the war.
> 
> So in other words. No.


Don't make me go _Misery_ on your ass.  Change the story, and I'll make you some pancakes or something.


----------



## Tomasu H. (Nov 19, 2010)

Anyone else eagerly anticipating "Avater: The Legend of Korra"?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 19, 2010)

Avian005 said:


> Don't make me go _Misery_ on your ass.  Change the story, and I'll make you some pancakes or something.



I...

What?


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm kinda likin' the new guy.

Also - hey guys, do you remember that scene in the show where Aang liberates that African village?


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YToyaLSLQM0&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 19, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I'm kinda likin' the new guy.
> 
> Also - hey guys, do you remember that scene in the show where Aang liberates that African village?


----------



## Burke (Nov 19, 2010)

If anything im glad they made the eath kingdom a sort of AfricAsia


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 19, 2010)

watching the movie for the first time

what should i expect


----------



## The Potential (Nov 19, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I'm kinda likin' the new guy.
> 
> Also - hey guys, do you remember that scene in the show where Aang liberates that African village?
> 
> ...



There is a reason this scene was deleted...


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 19, 2010)

Bleeding from the eyes and brain damage.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 19, 2010)

Wow it seems like the movie had/has every thing going for it aside from the crappy acting from every one not from the fire nation

bit impressed actually


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 19, 2010)

Zen-aku said:


> Wow it seems like the movie had/has every thing going for it aside from the crappy acting from every one not from the fire nation
> 
> bit impressed actually



I suppose if you like the video equivalent of a blurb of Avatar: The Last Airbender as acted by my 3rd grade class, it's pretty impressive.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 19, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I suppose if you like the video equivalent of a blurb of Avatar: The Last Airbender as acted by my 3rd grade class, it's pretty impressive.



i said the acting was terrible

Art design, clever little things and the special effects are what  impressed me

again most the acting was terrible


----------



## Shade (Nov 19, 2010)

If not replying to Martial means keeping him out of this thread, I'm all for it.


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 19, 2010)

Zen-aku said:


> i said the acting was terrible
> 
> Art design, clever little things and the special effects are what  impressed me
> 
> again most the acting was terrible



All of the backdrops and scenery seem drab and colorless, as opposed to the vivid colors of the series; the martial arts and subsequent bending is hilariously bad, and that's half CG.  

They had a big budget, I'll give you that.

Acting doesn't excuse the "skeletal-even-for-an-adaptation" storyboard, nor the bizarre idea that Katara telling us what happened over pan shots would be interesting.  It's no more bad than a lot of tripe that gets released, but it's certainly going to be set a low bar to be impressive.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 19, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> All of the backdrops and scenery seem drab and colorless, as opposed to the vivid colors of the series; the martial arts and subsequent bending is hilariously bad, and that's half CG.


   Real life will do that to you

and yes there were parts were the cgi blew but their were a couple of legitimately impressive moments



> Acting doesn't excuse the "skeletal-even-for-an-adaptation" storyboard, nor the bizarre idea that Katara telling us what happened over pan shots would be interesting.  It's no more bad than a lot of tripe that gets released, but it's certainly going to be set a low bar to be impressive.


 i am not gonna disagree but i feel had they had some decent acting  from the main three characters it would of bumped the entire movie up to a B

because the they did do a good job of  putting scenes form the series on too the screen


----------



## JellyButter (Nov 19, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Well you ain't gettin it.



-________-
Sure aint..


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 19, 2010)

Zen-aku said:
			
		

> i said the acting was terrible





			
				Zen-aku said:
			
		

> i am not gonna disagree but i feel had they had some decent acting  from the main three characters it would of bumped the entire movie up to a B



Make up your mind.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 19, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Make up your mind.



for what i said it would of been a better movie with decent acting.....


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 19, 2010)

Speaking of, you know what I miss? Actual special effects, with CGI assisting it only when necessary.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 19, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Speaking of, you know what I miss? Actual special effects, with CGI assisting it only when necessary.



its all about execution really


----------



## Koi (Nov 19, 2010)

I hold fast to my opinion that Jurassic Park has some of the best special effects _ever._  For Rekai's reasoning, mostly.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 19, 2010)

Zen-aku said:


> i am not gonna disagree but i feel had they had some decent acting  from the main three characters it would of bumped the entire movie up to a B
> 
> because the they did do a good job of  putting scenes form the series on too the screen



Decent acting wouldn't have resulted in better dialogue, a more coherent plot, or a director with dignity. It might have bumped it up to a D-.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 19, 2010)

Koi said:


> I hold fast to my opinion that Jurassic Park has some of the best special effects _ever._  For Rekai's reasoning, mostly.


Just so _YES_


Jove said:


> Decent acting wouldn't have resulted in better dialogue, a more coherent plot, or a director with dignity. It might have bumped it up to a D-.


Might bump it down for the experience though. You'll start to feel sorry for the actors and guilty for hating the movie, resulting in you leaving the theater more sad face possibly...

Imagine, these kids could've had a good career in acting if the movie possibly didn't ruin their resume. Well, if they had dreams of thespian-hood.


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 20, 2010)

Jove said:


> Decent acting wouldn't have resulted in better dialogue, a more coherent plot, or a director with dignity. It might have bumped it up to a D-.



i blame the the actors for the dialogue sounding wonky actually

as for the plot ehhh, again better actors would of atleast made it forgivable for a fan

IMO


----------



## Wan (Nov 20, 2010)

No...no, the dialogue was bad, no matter how it was acted.

There's no salvaging a line like "We have to show them that we believe in our beliefs as much as they believe in theirs."  Or the utter stupidity of "Earthbenders! Why are you acting this way? You are powerful and amazing people! You don't need to live like this! There is earth right beneath your feet! The ground is an extension of who you are!"


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 20, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> No...no, the dialogue was bad, no matter how it was acted.
> 
> There's no salvaging a line like "We have to show them that we believe in our beliefs as much as they believe in theirs."  Or the utter stupidity of "Earthbenders! Why are you acting this way? You are powerful and amazing people! You don't need to live like this! There is earth right beneath your feet! The ground is an extension of who you are!"



eh fair enough


----------



## Koi (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm amazed that anyone who's not blind and has legs ever takes any damage in a bending fight.  I mean, it takes everyone at least five seconds of tai-chi or whatever MNS was going for to even activate their bending.  When you see them gearing up, just.. you know.. move three steps out of the way?


Superstarseven said:


> I'm kinda likin' the new guy.
> 
> Also - hey guys, do you remember that scene in the show where Aang liberates that African village?
> 
> ...



*what the flying fuck*


----------



## Zen-aku (Nov 20, 2010)

they did the gearing up in the show to [not as much] but it wasn't a out of left field thing like  how he Gimped fire bending


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 20, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I'm kinda likin' the new guy.
> 
> Also - hey guys, do you remember that scene in the show where Aang liberates that African village?
> 
> ...



I think the primary reason they cut that scene was because it showed Ong smiling.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 20, 2010)

It's almost like M. Night read all the racebending stuff and said, "Oh, you think it;s racist just to cast white people?! Well then, you just watch what _I do_ with them" and storyboarded that repugnant scene immediately.


----------



## Bender (Nov 20, 2010)

YAY!

They're showing an Avatar season one marathon on Nicktoons!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 20, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I think the primary reason they cut that scene was because it showed Ong smiling.


Bong can't smile?


----------



## Bender (Nov 20, 2010)

I must admit I was thinking like Riley with Aang not killing fire lord Ozai being a major asspull but after seeing the finale yesterday I take it back: it was the right thing to do.

Also is it just me or is Avatar Kyoshi the coolest Avatar EVER? 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aIdRWPBfjk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqnfCsqLPpE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Ausorrin (Nov 20, 2010)

Which do you guys think is better- blood bending or metal bending.


----------



## Bender (Nov 20, 2010)

^

Metal bending

It was just plain sweet how Toph came up with it on the spot.

Bloodbending is meh..

Also if I'm correct couldn't Toph tear apart Fire nations airships using it?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 20, 2010)

I like bloodbending because it fits the philosophy of waterbending perfectly.

And while being the epitome of waterbending strategy, its balanced in being able to be preformed only during a full moon by waterbending masters.

Metalbending is cool but a bit more of a haxx move that was given to Toph so the story could move on.


----------



## Bender (Nov 20, 2010)

^

It's because Toph's tight like that 

She a bad ol' bitch


----------



## Wan (Nov 20, 2010)

Bender said:


> Also if I'm correct couldn't Toph tear apart Fire nations airships using it?



She could probably take down one ship, but then it would crash and she wouldn't be able to get to the rest of the ships.


----------



## Burke (Nov 20, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> She could probably take down one ship, but then it would crash and she wouldn't be able to get to the rest of the ships.



But your forgetting one key move

"AIRSHIP SLICE!"


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 20, 2010)

Ausorrin said:


> Which do you guys think is better- blood bending or metal bending.



I like them both really, although blood bending is obviously more sinister as you're taking control over someone's body.  Comparing the two, metal bending seems more of a progression of earth bending, and more versatile.  Blood bending is very limited (seemingly only against one person) and only during a full moon.  Doesn't really seem like a progression of the discipline (for want of a better term).


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 20, 2010)

I've just though of something funny/gross...

Bloodbending is a monthly thing.

Let it sink in...


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 20, 2010)

^ I actually initially wrote "once a month" and decided against in trying to avoid just that.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 21, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Blood bending is very limited (seemingly only against one person) and only during a full moon.  Doesn't really seem like a progression of the discipline (for want of a better term).



But it fits waterbending philosophy to the highest order.


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 21, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> But it fits waterbending philosophy to the highest order.



How do you mean?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 21, 2010)

Waterbending's strength is its defensive capabilities which, rather than supporting a separate set of offensive methods, are transformed into attacks and counters - defense into offense. Rather than simply stopping to deflect an attack, Waterbending's defensive maneuvers focus on control, achieved through turning an opponent's own strength against him, instead of directly harming the opponent.

What waterbending move emphasizes the above better than bloodbending?


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 21, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Waterbending's strength is its defensive capabilities which, rather than supporting a separate set of offensive methods, are transformed into attacks and counters - defense into offense. Rather than simply stopping to deflect an attack, Waterbending's defensive maneuvers focus on control, achieved through turning an opponent's own strength against him, instead of directly harming the opponent.
> 
> What waterbending move emphasizes the above better than bloodbending?



Sorry, but I don't see blood bending as turning someone's own strength against them (first defensive then offensive).  I simply see it as taking control over someone's body whereas they're mostly comprised of water.  Certainly I could see a person's body as their strength - how else might they have any power if not for their body...but that seems like quite a stretch and not at all in line with what you're conveying in your description.  

I'm inclined to think that all of the different benders embrace the same philosophy: defend under attack and counterattack as fluidly as possible (perhaps to greater or lesser degrees as the situation allows).  And defensive measures, regardless of who is using them, focus on control and don't necessarily directly harm the opponent.  However, this is simply true of many martial arts.  But again, I really don't see it as a defensive measure turned offensive, especially with the fluidity that you've ascribed to water bending in general (which I agree with and accept cum grano salis).  I'm certain it could lend itself to both with mutual exclusivity, such as to say if someone is attacking simply arrest their motion in defense - or attack and rip their limbs off, crush their organs, or burst vessels.  The contrary is true as well - a blood bender could cause harm while defending.  

So to answer your question...I guess probably many of them?  IDK I haven't really studied them.  I see it as very different than most if not all of the other techniques used by water benders.


----------



## Bender (Nov 21, 2010)

Hey question you guys:

Who was stronger Avatar Kyoshi or Avatar Roku?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 21, 2010)

Ausorrin said:


> Which do you guys think is better- blood bending or metal bending.



I have a serious issue with the very conceit of bloodbending being introduced into the show, so metalbending. Metalbending actually had plot relevance (in a narrative sense, with Toph's discovery of the ability mimicking Aang's lessons from  Pathik).



Bender said:


> Hey question you guys:
> 
> Who was stronger Avatar Kyoshi or Avatar Roku?



_Excellent_ question.

I'm going to say Roku, merely for the elite level skill he demonstrated in all four elements, and the advantage of one extra generation in the Avatar State.


My gut wants to say Kyoshi, though, because of her clinical approach to things. She wouldn't have let Sozin run free.


----------



## Bender (Nov 21, 2010)

@ Jove 

Not to mention Avatar  Kyoshi was able to severe landmasses like when  she separated Kyoshi island from  the Earth Kingdom.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Nov 21, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> Sorry, but I don't see blood bending as turning someone's own strength against them (first defensive then offensive).  I simply see it as taking control over someone's body whereas they're mostly comprised of water.  Certainly I could see a person's body as their strength - how else might they have any power if not for their body...but that seems like quite a stretch and not at all in line with what you're conveying in your description.



Well that description was from avatar wiki, and I agree with it. Waterbending style comes from* control*, especially against other waterbenders -where you just dont control the element your using but also controlling the opponents, the person with the *greater control of the elemental source* being used in the battle, has the higher chance of being the victor - see Katara vs Pakku.



> I'm inclined to think that all of the different benders embrace the same philosophy: defend under attack and counterattack as fluidly as possible (perhaps to greater or lesser degrees as the situation allows).  And defensive measures, regardless of who is using them, focus on control and don't necessarily directly harm the opponent.  However, this is simply true of many martial arts.



Not really, they all generally have a distinctive difference. 

eg. Description for firebending:

_These martial arts feature quick, successive attacks that exert extreme power for just a moment (much like an explosion, called ging lik). It optimizes a strong continuous offense, sacrificing defense for greater power, the principle behind a preemptive strike, making Firebending the most aggressive of the four bending arts. _



> But again, I really don't see it as a defensive measure turned offensive, especially with the fluidity that you've ascribed to water bending in general (which I agree with and accept cum grano salis).  I'm certain it could lend itself to both with mutual exclusivity, such as to say if someone is attacking simply arrest their motion in defense - or attack and rip their limbs off, crush their organs, or burst vessels.  The contrary is true as well - a blood bender could cause harm while defending.



Well like before in waterbender battles_ control of the element_ is key since they dont produce their own like fire or air, and earth is usually more abundant and their style consists or resistance and then attacking afterwards.

Out of all of the bending styles they are more likely to use the opponents attacking water for _their own use _to create a defense, attack back or constrain them. Thats where the fluidity comes from, instead of dodging (air), stopping (earth) the attack the waterbender prefer to"guide" the attack back, or use it for their own purposes.

The power of Bloodbending gives ulitmate control to the most important _water element_ in the battle, the one in the opponents body. What the bender can do with the source is up in the air, but the bending arts were never give moral associations - e.g. good bending, evil bending. What we do know it is capable of one of, if not the most quickest way to victory without a direct attack - through control, the opponent is _made to surrender_ and the battle end. 

That is the power and creativeness of the bloodbending concept.



> So to answer your question...I guess probably many of them?  IDK I haven't really studied them.  I see it as very different than most if not all of the other techniques used by water benders.



I cant really think of one...as effective as bloodbending. A battle involves opposing forces confronting each other, trying to wear the other one down to submission/ non-resistance. 

The power of bloodbending takes that concept and cuts the middle man (attacking/defending/dodging) and reaches the ending in the most simple way.


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 21, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well that description was from avatar wiki, and I agree with it. Waterbending style comes from* control*, especially against other waterbenders -where you just dont control the element your using but also controlling the opponents, the person with the *greater control of the elemental source* being used in the battle, has the higher chance of being the victor - see Katara vs Pakku.



Regardless of who wrote this, you're using it/citing it to make your point.  And you go right on agreeing with it.  I'm not saying I can't ascend to the notion.  Is blood mostly comprised of water which is a waterbender's elemental source?  Certainly - that goes without saying.  While I feel the aforementioned definition works well for waterbending in general, it's so heavy laden with "offense this" and "defense that," it just doesn't pair up well with bloodbending IMO.  Seriously, I don't see it as turning anyone's strength against them (perhaps on an elemental level, waterbender vs waterbender).  In that regard it could almost be considered a religious experience.  But, I don't see bloodbending as a defensive measure which smoothly transitions into an offensive measure.  I see it as a light switch: click - game over.  I believe that's an accurate analogy. 



> Not really, they all generally have a distinctive difference.
> 
> eg. Description for firebending:
> 
> ...



No I qualified my response and believe it still stands.  All benders defend under attack and counterattack as fluidly as possible - this is not exclusive to waterbending (which was my point). The fluidity I'm speaking to is simply efficacy in combat and conservation of motion.  It has more to do with the interplay in reading a situation and preparing for what comes next than the element being used.  All of the benders try to be as fluid as possible in this regard - Toph is an amazing example.  Wasn't it spoken of her that she uses neutral gin?  She listens before striking, evades when necessary, blocks when necessary, even moves dirt to induce groin pulls when necessary.  And I don't believe you can simply stereotype, generalize, or state that airbenders evade or dodge, earthbenders block, and firebenders simply attack, attack, attack (each being prone to these gestures).  There are a multitude of different variables, not the least of which are idiosyncratic fighting preferences, the situational context in which the conflict is taking place, what type of elements are coming into play, and a user's level of proficiency.  

If you're going to strictly limit your analysis to the elements and combat between opponents within a given discipline, water may have the highest degree of...transitional fluidity(?) between offender/defender.  IDK, and certainly between elements this breaks down.   But that wasn't my point.  I was making argument concerning the definition, and showing that it's generic or fluffy enough to be applied to all of the benders (thus my mention of this being true of most martial arts IRL).    



> The power of Bloodbending gives ulitmate control to the most important _water element_ in the battle, the one in the opponents body. What the bender can do with the source is up in the air, but the bending arts were never give moral associations - e.g. good bending, evil bending. What we do know it is capable of one of, if not the most quickest way to victory without a direct attack - through control, the opponent is _made to surrender_ and the battle end.
> 
> That is the power and creativeness of the bloodbending concept.
> 
> ...



Yes - and it does this once a month at night.  You're right in that it fits waterbending philosophy to the highest order, all the way down to the point of greatest power during the full moon (looking past my earlier nitpicking with the definition).  But I don't see it as a progression of the art in the way I see metalbending as a progression of earthbending.  



And I've just got to say you're an excellent writer.  You've a great style and make excellent, compelling arguments.  Amazing writer - reps!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 21, 2010)

I still contend that it was a line that the show should not have crossed.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 21, 2010)

People, Bloodbending was just a stupid Halloween thing brought on by meddling executives.


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## Superstarseven (Nov 21, 2010)

Someone should have brought it up to Mike and Bryan after they presented the series bible to the writers.
Bloodbending goes back to the show's conception.


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## Burke (Nov 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> People, Bloodbending was just a stupid Halloween thing brought on by meddling executives.



Not this...



Superstarseven said:


> Someone should have brought it up to Mike and Bryan after they presented the series bible to the writers.
> Bloodbending goes back to the show's conception.



This


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 21, 2010)

Either way, it's consistent with _aspects_ of Waterbender philosophy, but inconsistent with the ethos of the show. Bending is about a spiritual connection with the element, not control over every single facet of its properties.

Does emphasize just how haxxed out Waterbending can be, though.


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## Time Expired (Nov 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> I still contend that it was a line that the show should not have crossed.



I want to hear more. [Edit] - oops you posted before me.  Talk about being prompt.  

...wait - get out of my mind!   



ReikaiDemon said:


> People, Bloodbending was just a stupid Halloween thing brought on by meddling executives.



You're a meddling executive.

 jk 

I hate to say it, but I thought it was used to great effect in _The Southern Raiders_.  I don't think I've ever seen Katara so hurt or angry; it was almost unbearable.  The emotional contrast between the two times she's used the technique was played masterfully.  The fact that she used it fully expressed her bitterness, torment, and frame of mind.  Her final resolve and repentance thereafter spoke clearly in the end after everything played out.  

Zuko's face however, a picture of horror as she took control of her opponent.  I'm just amazed at the detail they put into this work.  Man - it's just genius.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 21, 2010)

Well, it was her period after all


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 21, 2010)

REKKY, DON'T EVEN.

I suppose it was used well in Southern Raiders. I dislike just as much how it opened the door; now air can be sucked out of lungs, etc. They've never tempered it, like they later clarified that Energybending was only capable of being performed by an Avatar.


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> Bending is about a spiritual connection with the element, not control over every single facet of its properties.
> 
> Does emphasize just how haxxed out Waterbending can be, though.



Well thats part of one of the more sophisticated themes of the show. Power and the use and abuse of it. The fire nation is a prime example of this. With the knowledge of gaining a better connection with their firebendng as the comet soared by - they used it to exterminate the Air Nomads and launch a 100-year War.

I like the Puppet Master not because I could speculate how you devastating waterbending could be from then on, but how it portrayed the brutal affects of war. Not just on how FN did wrong to others, but how good people like Hama could be twisted by war. Hama was a sweet, caring old woman to those not from the FN, but was malicious to FN soldiers and citizens. 

She reinforced Jets character in the effects of war, but was even more poignant seeing as how she was not only from a WT but she was from the SWT and the last remaining SWT wtaerbender. Corruption and malicious intent can manifest itself in all types of people.



> Yes - and it does this once a month at night. You're right in that it it fits waterbending philosophy to the highest order, all the way down to the point of greatest power during the full moon (looking past my earlier nitpicking with the definition). But I don't see it as a progression of the art in the way I see metalbending as a progression of earthbending.



Well I see Bloodbending akin to Lightningbending, more situational but is a clear exclamation mark to their core bending philosophies.


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## Wan (Nov 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> REKKY, DON'T EVEN.
> 
> I suppose it was used well in Southern Raiders. I dislike just as much how it opened the door; now air can be sucked out of lungs, etc. They've never tempered it, like they later clarified that Energybending was only capable of being performed by an Avatar.



They never stated that about energybending, to my knowledge; the only detail given is that very few Avatars have known about energybending, and even fewer have mastered it.


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## Burke (Nov 21, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> They never stated that about energybending, to my knowledge; the only detail given is that very few Avatars have known about energybending, and even fewer have mastered it.



Yes, but to me, and to most viewers, the mention of the word Avatar leads me to believe that only they can do it.


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## ElementX (Nov 21, 2010)

Each bending art has a dark side to it. Firebenders can scar people or strike them down with lightning. Earthbenders can potentially bury people alive, like that one insane general displayed with Katara. Airbenders can slice people apart although they don't as it's against their general philosophy. Bloodbending is just another way of showing the more grim ways bending can used.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 21, 2010)

Jove said:


> I suppose it was used well in Southern Raiders. I dislike just as much how it opened the door; now air can be sucked out of lungs, etc. They've never tempered it, *like they later clarified that Energybending was only capable of being performed by an Avatar.*



Where was that ever stated? And how is that possible, if energybending predates the Avatar? I do not like the idea of the Avatar having new and awesome powers that no other character has; it is unfair to the other characters.

Did anyone else find it to be unfortunate that Iroh and Ozai were never shown in the same scene together? I would like to have seen how the two of them interacted with each other.

Iroh is the only character who has been shown to be capable of both generating and redirecting lightning, but might Zuko have learned to generate lighting, after he became more emotionally calm and stable, with less conflict in his life? Also, if a bender redirected lightning, could they add their own lightning to it, as well? Think of how Nel in _Bleach_ can add her own _cero_ to an existing _cero_ that she absorbs and redirects with her _cero doble_ technique. I cannot imagine why that would not be possible in _Avatar: the Last Airbender._


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## ElementX (Nov 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Did anyone else find it to be unfortunate that Iroh and Ozai were never shown in the same scene together? I would like to have seen how the two of them interacted with each other.



Yes, I would have really liked to see that. Iroh was so much older than Ozai, that I wonder how it must have felt to for him to see Ozai turn out the way he did. Also you have to wonder why exactly Ozai turned into such a monster. Zuko Alone seems to hint that there might have been some favoritism going on (Azulon caring more about Iroh than Ozai). Anyway, a scene either in present or flashback would have been great.


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## Wan (Nov 21, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Did anyone else find it to be unfortunate that Iroh and Ozai were never shown in the same scene together? I would like to have seen how the two of them interacted with each other.



It is unfortunate.  However, I feel that not having Iroh and Ozai in the same scene in season 3 was a wise decision; such a scene would have demanded Mako's voice acting chops to balance out Mark Hamill.  Think Iroh confronting Zhao at the North Pole's Spirit Oasis, but x1000.



> Iroh is the only character who has been shown to be capable of both generating and redirecting lightning, but might Zuko have learned to generate lighting, after he became more emotionally calm and stable, with less conflict in his life? Also, if a bender redirected lightning, could they add their own lightning to it, as well? Think of how Nel in _Bleach_ can add her own _cero_ to an existing _cero_ that she absorbs and redirects with her _cero doble_ technique. I cannot imagine why that would not be possible in _Avatar: the Last Airbender._



I think it's very likely that Zuko is able to generate lightning at this point. However, I don't think the generation and redirection techniques can be combined; the are separate in execution (generation involves manipulating energy outside the body, while redirection involves directing the lightning through the body) and both are dangerous to execute (generation blows up in your face if done improperly, and redirection fries your heart if done improperly).  Anyone who tried combining the techniques would likely end up dead.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Where was that ever stated? And how is that possible, if energybending predates the Avatar? I do not like the idea of the Avatar having new and awesome powers that no other character has; it is unfair to the other characters.



He's the _Avatar_; it's the logic of the goddamn show for things to be unbalanced in his or her favor. Your feelings don't matter.



Mordin Solus said:


> They never stated that about energybending, to my knowledge; the only detail given is that very few Avatars have known about energybending, and even fewer have mastered it.



They did. It was in the supplemental Nick.com material:



It's an important point. And it's perfectly consistent with the show's mythology, because predating the Avatar means nothing. The presence of the Avatar changed the Spiritual composite of the world; only the Avatar has a connection to the Spirit World; it would follow that bending another's energy would be solely invested in the Avatar.

A more relevant point is the danger involved in it's use, because a lot of people seemed to miss this point from the finale. I recall people wondering if Aang was going to energybend Airbending back into existence, and other completely idiotic ideas. He probably never used it again.


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## The Potential (Nov 22, 2010)

I'll have to agree with, Mordin Solus on this one.


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## Wan (Nov 22, 2010)

Jove said:


> They did. It was in the supplemental Nick.com material:
> 
> 
> 
> It's an important point. And it's perfectly consistent with the show's mythology, because predating the Avatar means nothing. The presence of the Avatar changed the Spiritual composite of the world; only the Avatar has a connection to the Spirit World; it would follow that bending another's energy would be solely invested in the Avatar.



I see.



> A more relevant point is the danger involved in it's use, because a lot of people seemed to miss this point from the finale. I recall people wondering if Aang was going to energybend Airbending back into existence, and other completely idiotic ideas. He probably never used it again.



Agreed.  Some people say Aang was a coward or selfish for putting his beliefs over the task at hand.  It's actually the opposite; killing Ozai with lightning would have been safer and easier than energybending.  And of course he adhered to his beliefs; that's the point of having beliefs.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 22, 2010)

Oh, I should point out that people have doubted the credibility of the Nick.com stuff, but there have been very specific things, such as Sozin's age and backstory, that line up exactly with things we know directly from Mike and Bryan. I generally trust it.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 22, 2010)

Jove said:


> He's the _Avatar_; it's the logic of the goddamn show for things to be unbalanced in his or her favor. Your feelings don't matter.



In that case, do you accept Naruto Uzumaki or Ichigo Kurosaki being overpowered compared to the other characters in their own series?


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In that case, do you accept Naruto Uzumaki or Ichigo Kurosaki being overpowered compared to the other characters in their own series?



You can't compare the three. Avatar is specifically based upon the main character being invested with more power than anyone. This isn't narrative based; it's the world the show is set in, aside from plot.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 22, 2010)

Jove said:


> You can't compare the three. Avatar is specifically based upon the main character being invested with more power than anyone. This isn't narrative based; it's the world the show is set in, aside from plot.


I don't think he understands at all, I mean, we have gone over this with him like a billion fucking times now.

I postulate this, DDJ just can't effin' comprehend the damn show.

I mean, this is a guy that hangs up on the use of the word bathroom in the show, and thinks it's worth mentioning because it's a stupid, tiny insignificant anachronism. Nevermind the fact it's a whole nother fuckin' world. 

This is a guy that watches the show with the display pressed against his eyeballs, with the premises of other shows applied to it instead of taking the world of the series as it is.

I thought it was funny how he just doesn't fucking get it, but now, it's  just plain exasperating, and an effort for me to unroll my eyeballs  after reading his posts, so I have normal coordination to do the shit I  do day to day.


So lets just give up, and get the broom, and sweep him into that dark corner of this room.

Harumph!


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 22, 2010)

COME ON NOW, REKKY.

It's an honest point he's trying to make.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 22, 2010)

Jove said:


> COME ON NOW, REKKY.
> 
> It's an honest point he's trying to make.


And I've been honest when I expressed my sentiments about him, but that doesn't make it right, neither does it make him right.


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## Noah (Nov 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In that case, do you accept Naruto Uzumaki or Ichigo Kurosaki being overpowered compared to the other characters in their own series?



It's specifically stated that the Avatar is better and more awesomer than everyone else. This is a staple fact of the world Avatar exists in. His whole job is to become overpowered.

Your examples are just characters in their own worlds who happen to be overpowered. Aang (and the other incarnations) exists specifically to be overpowered when compared to his world.

How is this confusing?


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 22, 2010)

Though, to answer his question: I don't believe he's the most powerful, and lolblech.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 22, 2010)

One of the reasons that I dislike the Avatar being overpowered is that we, the audience, are supposed to regard the Avatar as the hero of the story, and I dislike an overpowered hero even more than an overpowered villain. With an overpowered villain, the heroes must find a method to battle that villain and have a chance of surviving, often using strategy and tactics, and there is much drama and excitement, but with an overpowered hero, that hero is likely to win their battles too easily, and there is less tension or suspense.

Plus, I am still not pleased that Aang thought that removing Ozai's ability to bend was more merciful than death; I believe that Aang was very naive to do so, for to me, that was a fate much worse than death.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 22, 2010)

Did you miss the part where they made Aang 12 and untrained? Cause that was a pretty big part.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 22, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Did you miss the part where they made Aang 12 and untrained? Cause that was a pretty big part.



No, I did not miss that part, but at the end of the series, when he has fully mastered all four bending arts and the avatar state, how will anyone be able to battle him? If a new villain arises, how will there be any conflict and tension if Aang can defeat that new villain easily?


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 22, 2010)

There are no new villains. There's not going to be another season. This isn't Dragon Ball Z, this isn't bleach, this isn't Naruto. It's not a "villain of the week" "constant escalation of powers" type show. You don't have to get your panties in a knot about Aang's next conflict _because there is no next conflic_t. Aang's story has been told, the series is done, so I don't see what you're getting upset about.


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## The Potential (Nov 22, 2010)

Aang's next serious conflict: The Avatar vs......*THE WORLD!!!*


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> No, I did not miss that part, but at the end of the series, when he has fully mastered all four bending arts and the avatar state, how will anyone be able to battle him? If a new villain arises, how will there be any conflict and tension if Aang can defeat that new villain easily?



It doesn't have to be about physically defeating someone, you know. Was Avatar and the Fire Lord any less compelling with Roku essentially uknockoutable?


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 22, 2010)

Caution! severe speculation ahead!



Jove said:


> It doesn't have to be about physically defeating someone, you know. Was Avatar and the Fire Lord any less compelling with Roku essentially uknockoutable?



Exactly! Why do you think the new series (Korra) focuses on an anti-bender rebellion. Because it creates a conflict that Korra can't "win" by using brute force. If she just attacks with her bending, that proves them right. I think that will be a huge focus of the new series. That the Avatar has to be as much a diplomat as a warrior. In fact, probably even more so. 

The Avatars power acts as a deterrent to physical action. Though that doesn't mean he can just go around attacking anyone he disagrees with. That would actually make him just as bad as the bad guys. Something Aang himself specifically states in the finale.


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## Bender (Nov 22, 2010)

I'll admit Energybending lightshow looks cool and whatnot but seriously talk about poorly written. Using what little time the show had left for Aang to have second thoughts about killing is lame. Instead of conjuring a new type of bending to prevent him from killing that time should've been spent trying to call the avatar state at will. 

Also I know people said it was the right punishment for Ozai because of his attachment to firebending but meh. When you have a title like Energybending you expect something more pure ki-oriented. What wouldve been more kick-ass had Aang sealed Ozai's mind in the spirit world for eternity. 

And hopefully one day while Ozai wandering around aimlessly in the spirit world he comes across Koh the face stealer.


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## Wan (Nov 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> One of the reasons that I dislike the Avatar being overpowered is that we, the audience, are supposed to regard the Avatar as the hero of the story, and I dislike an overpowered hero even more than an overpowered villain. With an overpowered villain, the heroes must find a method to battle that villain and have a chance of surviving, often using strategy and tactics, and there is much drama and excitement, but with an overpowered hero, that hero is likely to win their battles too easily, and there is less tension or suspense.



I would agree, if Aang actually was overpowered for most of the show.  But he wasn't.  The elements?  Started with only one of them, and even when he learned more he wasn't the best at them.  The Avatar State?  Couldn't control it, and it was actually disabled during season 3 until the end.  The Ocean Spirit?  A one-time thing.  

Most villains have been able to fight Aang evenly -- Azula matched him throughout season 2 and won the final battle, even though Aang tried tried tapping into his godly power of overpoweredness.  Aang didn't stand a chance against Combustion Man.  Ozai clearly had the upper hand in the first part of their battle.  

However, ultimately, Aang needed to _win._  In order for the hero to win, he needs to be better than the villain in some way- smarter, stronger, or just plain luckier.  At the very end, Aang went the "stronger" route.  It doesn't make the ending any cheaper than if Aang had somehow outsmarted Ozai.  And the fact that Aang can control the Avatar State and is overpowered now doesn't matter, because the show is _over._  There's no more need for drama and excitement.

Unless you thought there was a chance that Aang would _not_ win?



> Plus, I am still not pleased that Aang thought that removing Ozai's ability to bend was more merciful than death; I believe that Aang was very naive to do so, for to me, that was a fate much worse than death.



I don't think Aang ever believed that removing bending was more merciful.  He simply was philosophically opposed to killing, no matter what the person.


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 22, 2010)

Bender said:


> I'll admit Energybending lightshow looks cool and whatnot but seriously talk about poorly written. Using what little time the show had left for Aang to have second thoughts about killing is lame. Instead of conjuring a new type of bending to prevent him from killing that time should've been spent trying to call the avatar state at will.
> 
> Also I know people said it was the right punishment for Ozai because of his attachment to firebending but meh. When you have a title like Energybending you expect something more pure ki-oriented. What wouldve been more kick-ass had Aang sealed Ozai's mind in the spirit world for eternity.
> 
> And hopefully one day while Ozai wandering around aimlessly in the spirit world he comes across Koh the face stealer.



Yeah, honestly Aang could not defeat Ozai at all without Avatarstate. I mean call it cliche but Id prefer it if Aang had some sort of epiphiany to get inot the AS first, then unlocking the energy bending.



> In order for the hero to win, he needs to be better than the villain in some way- smarter, stronger, or just plain luckier. At the very end, Aang went the "stronger" route. It doesn't make the ending any cheaper than if Aang had somehow outsmarted Ozai.



Yeah, but he didnt even work to get to the "stronger" route.
While Aang was in that earth shell getting toasted by Ozai they should have shown him trying to desparately reconnect with his cosmic powers and open his gates or something. Better than getting jabbed by some random rock. He could/should have died right there. Once AS was reached Ozai was already defeated whether energybending was used or not.

Also, that reminds me Iroh went inot the spiritual world at one time, its a shame they never decided to ellaborate on this in the last season.


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## Bender (Nov 22, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Also, that reminds me Iroh went inot the spiritual world at one time, its a shame they never decided to ellaborate on this in the last season.



For realz

 I would've loved to know if Iroh went face to face (Pun intended  ) with Koh the face stealer. Because in all honesty I can't see anyone but Aang being able to best him. Also does Koh LITERALLY rip your face off when you make an expression or it's like Harry Potter's dementor's kiss and it's sucked away once you make contact with him?

Seriously, if there's any fate worse than death on the show it's having your face taken by Koh's creepy ass.

Yesterday I saw the episode for the first time in full-length when Koh made his appearance and made me go  .


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 22, 2010)

^ Yeah.

Though the spirit world is huge. I dont think Iroh would have had to meet Koh if he was wandering the spirit world. It was becuase of the pandabear spirit that guided Aang to Koh.

I would still keep a check on Ozai if he was sent to the spirit world, like Zhao he would probably spend that time trying to get some new type of power to rule with.


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## Bender (Nov 22, 2010)

Waking Dreamer said:


> ^ Yeah.
> 
> Though the spirit world is huge. I dont think Iroh would have had to meet Koh if he was wandering the spirit world.



Realz? 

I thought Koh was an enigmatic and unpredictable character? I mean wasn't he lying through his teeth about forgiving Aang's past incarnation for trying to kill him and baiting him so he could take his face?



> I would still keep a check on Ozai if he was sent to the spirit world, like Zhao he would probably spend that time trying to get some new type of power to rule with.



Isn't the spirit world inhabited by the Avatars like Avatar Roku? Couldn't they keep a watch on him something like what the six sages in Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time did with Ganondorf?


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## Waking Dreamer (Nov 22, 2010)

Bender said:


> Realz?
> 
> I thought Koh was an enigmatic and unpredictable character? I mean wasn't he lying through his teeth about forgiving Aang's past incarnation for trying to kill him and baiting him so he could take his face?



Koh is meant to be one of the oldest spirits I think hes got his own turff in the spiritworld. With his knowledge he has people/spirits come to him and tests them to see if he could take their face while he answers their questions. I dont think he goes around prowling for every Spirit world tourist looking around. Iroh was looking for answers but I dont think he necessarily had to go to Koh to have them answered. 

Like I said we've only seen like a fraction of the spirit world. I would love to see Irohs trip and seeing the different spirits/location he would have encountered. Id actually like a stand-alone episode/OVA consisting of Iroh leaving the seige at Ba Sing Se and then his travels to the spiritworld, water tribe (lightning redirection), meeting/joining the White Lotus before eventually going back to the FN and greeting un an unscarred Zuko. 



Bender said:


> Isn't the spirit world inhabited by the Avatars like Avatar Roku? Couldn't they keep a watch on him something like what the six sages in Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time did with Ganondorf?



I not sure about that, never thought about it really. I got the impression due to reincarnation that they remained with the current avatar. If its true though,  I dont see whats stopping the WT Avatar from marching into Koh's crib and busting him up. lol


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## Burke (Nov 22, 2010)

I like to see that Jove respects his adversaries.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Nov 22, 2010)

Even though the Avatar is "overpowered," an untrained Avatar can still be taken down [see: The Blue Spirit] and even a trained Avatar can still need others' help [see: The Avatar and the Fire Lord]. Aang has this incredible power but, for most of the series, doesn't know how to truly control it. The Avatars, no matter how powerful they seem, are still human and flawed.

Which is why I liked the ending of Aang vs. Ozai, Aang showed control over the Avatar State by suppressing it when dealing the final blow.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Nov 22, 2010)

Take in consideration as well that Aang was raised by the air nomads, they teached him to value life over everything. Aang was also vegetarian, to prevent himself to eat meat. That was another reason why he couldn't bring himself to kill Ozai, it would be going against his own values and way of living, those things mattered to him as much as fulfilling his duty as the Avatar.

His decision to strip Ozai from his firebending was logical.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 22, 2010)

Come one guys, DDJ just doesn't get it, he's thinking on the level of every other generic money turning shonen series out there.

And I thought I had some good reasons why crippling Ozai spiritually is a preferable end.



> Take Hitler for example, because of his suicide, he never got his full  comeuppance. In his death, he has become a martyr, and still serves to  inspire more idiots down the line, keeping his values afloat. Had he  been humiliated fully, and thoroughly, and brought to justice,  Neo-Nazism and other offshoots would be taken even less seriously, or  not exist possibly.
> 
> Although, this is a different matter, the Avatar is much like a  righteous god, so no doubt, his/her's actions would be taken seriously  regardless.
> 
> ...



And come on, what the fuck could Ozai do? He's limp as linguine.


----------



## Koi (Nov 22, 2010)




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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Come one guys, DDJ just doesn't get it, he's thinking on the level of every other generic money turning shonen series out there.



I greatly resent this statement, for some _shonen_ manga series are anything but "generic" in my mind, such as _One Piece._

Additionally, _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ contains many elements that are often associated with _shonen_ manga, such as an emphasis on friendship and teamwork, the usage of supernatural powers, and a fantastic world very different from our own, with unusual creatures and exotic cultures. Obviously, those elements can appear in nearly any fictional story, but they are definitely elements that are commonly seen in _shonen_ manga.

Finally, I give a great effort to be mature and rational, and to give a critical analysis of every fictional series that I follow. There are professional reviewers, who are paid to provide critical analyses of fictional media and whose opinions are held in high regard, so I am attempting to do the same. Surely, my attempts at critical thinking regarding this series are admirable rather than laughable, worthy of respect rather than scorn?


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 23, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I greatly resent this statement, for some _shonen_ manga series are anything but "generic" in my mind, such as _One Piece._


Did I mention One Piece was part of it? No.



> Additionally, _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ contains many elements that are often associated with _shonen_ manga, such as an emphasis on friendship and teamwork, the usage of supernatural powers, and a fantastic world very different from our own, with unusual creatures and exotic cultures. Obviously, those elements can appear in nearly any fictional story, but they are definitely elements that are commonly seen in _shonen_ manga.


Granted, but nothing is all that cut an dried. For one, you're just going by the basest, superficial details that nine times out of ten, don't make a difference in it's depth and sum of it's parts. 

It's like that tired, but apt adage of apples and oranges.


> Finally, I give a great effort to be mature and rational, and to give a critical analysis of every fictional series that I follow. There are professional reviewers, who are paid to provide critical analyses of fictional media and whose opinions are held in high regard, so I am attempting to do the same. Surely, my attempts at critical thinking regarding this series are admirable rather than laughable, worthy of respect rather than scorn?


Well, you should know those professional analysts get flak too, just because they're professional, doesn't mean they're right. And anyone can imitate, but as I recall, you need a certain amount of credentials and study to do the things they do. Not to mention actual contributions to the respective craft.

Was Roger Ebert some random dick in a movie theater that stood up and shout to everybody what he got from the movie? No, he's a screenwriter, and took the time out of his life learning about the craft he criticizes. 

Sure, nothing is stopping you from imitating him and others, but don't expect to be on the money, don't expect to be respected on that, and don't expect that you won't get challenged on your views. 

I for one, don't think you are thinking critically enough, and I think it's erroneous of you to place works like Naruto and Bleach and Teen Titans on the same level as Avatar, and then judge Avatar not by it's own laws, premise and world, but by others, merely because it's demographic and genre happen to coincide, vaguely or otherwise.

Watch Avatar as Avatar first, take off the filters, then do that armchair analyst shtick 

You spend a lot of time on insignificant details, the language ("bathroom", names, etc.), but don't bother thinking about the big picture. You're taking this series episode by episode, bit by bit, but not putting them together. You're watching the series heavily tainted by other series at the front of your mind, rather than taking the show as it is, and THEN making comparisons. 

Then you expect to string along a bunch of fancy words and concepts, and expect to be taken seriously in the same breath as thinking Ty Lee's pink aura comments was about her vagina or something. 

To me, it just feels like you're parroting a bunch of things that most people accept as smart, and then expecting to be taken as an erudite intellectual by just loosely tacking them on by mere semantics. 

No, you're just lookin' at the shiny oily rainbow on top of the water that leaked out of your motorboat, pointing out which ones look like tits, and make it out to be some kind of allegorical parallel of an Oedipus Complex.

That's not deep analysis, that's just dressing shit up.

Also, didn't you once mistake the Yin and Yang as evil and good? I don't remember, it happens too much here.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm sorry Rekky, but I really wish you went another route than Hitler. There has to be a Chinese equivalent. We all have our roles: I'm the European history guy, you're the Chinese history gu...al. 

I really don't care about DDJ's analysis of the show, though I don't disagree. I just feel no joy in his posts. I've assaulted this thread with more words than him, especially during my rankings, but at least I tried to be funny in between the pedantic language.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 23, 2010)

I think what we're getting at is, we like you DDJ, you just need to learn to loosen up a little bit. Like, I don't know, try getting drunk for your next post. See how that works. 

Personally I don't post_ unless _I'm drunk. And yes, that counts for this post as well. And yes, I'm also aware that it's 10 in the morning and a week day. Oh well, off to work for me!


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## Koi (Nov 23, 2010)

I've never been drunk.  I sorta feel like I'm missing out on something.


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## Nodonn (Nov 23, 2010)

Koi said:


> I've never been drunk.  I sorta feel like I'm missing out on something.



You should watch Korra exclusively while shitfaced, it'll probably be the best show you've ever seen.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 23, 2010)

Jove said:


> I'm sorry Rekky, but I really wish you went another route than Hitler. There has to be a Chinese equivalent. We all have our roles: I'm the European history guy, you're the Chinese history gu...al.
> 
> I really don't care about DDJ's analysis of the show, though I don't disagree. I just feel no joy in his posts. I've assaulted this thread with more words than him, especially during my rankings, but at least I tried to be funny in between the pedantic language.


It's the law of the internet, Hitler must be invoked





stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I think what we're getting at is, we  like you DDJ, you just need to learn to loosen up a little bit. Like, I  don't know, try getting drunk for your next post. See how that works.
> 
> Personally I don't post_ unless _I'm drunk. And yes, that counts  for this post as well. And yes, I'm also aware that it's 10 in the  morning and a week day. Oh well, off to work for me!


Ah yes, I forgot to mention that.

That's why I said that DDJ wasn't "enjoying" the series when he first posted his thoughts.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 23, 2010)

Don't get us wrong DDJ. I'd hate for you to feel like we're just piling on here, but Jove touched on something with his "lack of joy" comment. I could be totally wrong here, but judging from your posts alone, it almost feels as though you're watching this show with intention of analyzing/critiquing as you're primary intention rather than watching it for the pleasure of it. 

That could just be the way you write, and if you actually want to be a writer, you need to figure out how to get some emotions in there. I used to do the same thing. In 2003, two friends and I walked from St. Charles, Illinois to San Fransisco, California. We documented the entire trip in online journals that we updated daily (with a laptop and a primitive dail-up cell phone connection). _The_ biggest complaint I started getting on my journals was that they had details but no emotions. No soul. I've actually started working on a book based on that little adventure of ours, so I've had to go back and read what I wrote, and holy shit is it boring. _I_ know what I was feeling at the time, but I never bothered to translate any of that emotion into the words, so my experience came across with all the pizazz of a grocery list. 

I've since then figured out how to write with emotions, to get _myself_ into the words. You need to do the same. Otherwise your posts will continue to sound like they were written by a robot doing it damnedest to imitate how it thinks humans react to these things called "feelings".

Ok, gotta get back to work.


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## Buskuv (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm not entirely comfortable with the level of Godwin's Law in this thread.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 23, 2010)

Oh, I suppose were all supposed to post the way _you _want us to post. Is that it!

You're worse than Hitler!


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## Buskuv (Nov 23, 2010)

I wonder if they have a similar term for Firelord Sozin in the Avatar world.


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## The Potential (Nov 23, 2010)

I think he just writes like that guys. It use to tweak my nerves to. Not that it still doesn't, I just accept him for what he is.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 23, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I think what we're getting at is, we like you DDJ, you just need to learn to loosen up a little bit. Like, I don't know, try getting drunk for your next post. See how that works.
> 
> Personally I don't post_ unless _I'm drunk. And yes, that counts for this post as well. And yes, I'm also aware that it's 10 in the morning and a week day. Oh well, off to work for me!



I never drink alcohol, at all, except on very rare occasions, as I wish to retain my mental faculties at all times, plus I simply do not see the need to be in an intoxicated condition; I can enjoy myself and have a perfectly good time without being in an altered state of mind.

And with that being said, I have been enjoying this series immensely, even if no one here believes that, and I have stated as much in many of the posts that I have made in this thread. The _only_ elements of the series that I significantly disliked were the Avatar being overpowered and Ozai not dying (surely, someone else could have finished him after Aang removed his ability to bend); I thoroughly enjoyed everything else about the series.

If my writing style does not seem to convey my emotions, then I apologize for that, but that is my own unique style, and I do not wish to change it for the convenience of other people. I actually like to write very much, and I have written a number of poems and short stories, most of which I keep stored on my computer. However, after I finish watching _X-Men: Evolution_ and _Teen Titans_ on my computer, I plan to greatly reduce the amount of time that I spend using my computer to watch movies and television series and instead spend more time writing and posting my writing online, so hopefully, you will then have a better idea of my writing style, as my posts this forum are hardly the best example of my actual writing ability.

To change the subject, I would have liked it if there had been a scene of Zuko and Sokka conversing, and talking about their respective sisters, being that each of them is the older brother of their family. For example, I could almost imagine dialogue such as this:

*Sokka:* My sister can be so annoying at times!
*Zuko:* You think she's bad? My sister has tried to _kill me,_ and on multiple occasions!
*Sokka:* That's rough, buddy.

I cannot exactly duplicate their unique manners of speech, but that is a crude imaginary scenario that I developed in several seconds. Does anyone else here wish that such an exchange had occurred between the two older brothers of the series?



Stark042 said:


> I think he just writes like that guys. It use to tweak my nerves to. Not that it still doesn't, I just accept him for what he is.



If you are referring to me, I thank you very much for your kind words, Stark.


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## The Potential (Nov 23, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Sokka:* My sister can be so annoying at times!
> *Zuko:* You think she's bad? My sister has tried to _kill me,_ and on multiple occasions!
> *Sokka:* That's rough, buddy.
> 
> ...



I suppose they did that on *The Boiling Rock* Ep. The way you put it is also quite funny. How I love Sokka and Zuko.

And your welcome my kind sir.


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## Burke (Nov 23, 2010)

Jove said:


> I'm sorry Rekky, but I really wish you went another route than Hitler. There has to be a Chinese equivalent. We all have our roles: I'm the European history guy, you're the Chinese history gu...al.



Youve been Joved


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 23, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I never drink alcohol, at all, except on very rare occasions,



1) When I said you should drunk and post, that is what we humans commonly refer to AS A JOKE! I understand that you're programming apparently doesn't allow you to "get" those. As proven by previous posts



DemonDragonJ said:


> as I wish to retain my mental faculties at all times, plus I simply do not see the need to be in an intoxicated condition; I can enjoy myself and have a perfectly good time without being in an altered state of mind.



2) Remember when I said you need to loosen up... Yeah, that above quote is a textbook example of being way too fucking uptight.

I'm not exactly advocating that you drink or anything else, but anyone who states "I wish to retain my mental faculties *at all times*" should probably consider scheduling a surgery in order to remove that stick from so far up their ass.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 23, 2010)




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## Buskuv (Nov 23, 2010)

That's just mean.

We still have along way to go before we see any episodes, so now I just want to see it.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 23, 2010)

I just love how Basco has embraced the Rufio thing.


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 23, 2010)

It would be funny if Rufio makes a small cameo in Korra xD

I can see Rufio in Avatar seriously, he's close enough to believably fit the Avatar style.


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## The Potential (Nov 23, 2010)

Perhaps he will play a nephew of Zuko's...


But then that would mean......


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 23, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Perhaps he will play a nephew of Zuko's...
> 
> 
> But then that would mean......


And then Zuko is the Iroh to Azula's son


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## The Potential (Nov 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> And then Zuko is the Iroh to Azula's son



But didn't they say all the old main characters were dead?


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## Superstarseven (Nov 23, 2010)

Well...Dante isn't a chameleon VA with lots of range. Whoever this new character is, he'll most likely sound like exactly like Zuko. They could do pitch his voice up as Disney did with American Dragon but that would mean that he's portraying a pre-teen.
"Skeletons in The closet", what in the world could that be about? I wonder if Mike and Bryan could be moving away from titling episodes the way they did in The Last Airbender.

So many questions and there hasn't even been a cast list revealed. Now that I think about it, why exactly was Greg Baldwin's name under wraps for such a long time before season 3 premiered? I didn't see the need for that.


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## Time Expired (Nov 23, 2010)

I wonder who's going to be the voice for Momo...because they sure as hell better have Momo


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 24, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> I wonder who's going to be the voice for Momo...because they sure as hell better have Momo


Bison-lemurs


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## Proxy (Nov 24, 2010)

Jove said:


>





Rufio. That brings me back to Hook. If only he was still that age. His voice and Rufio's attitude would have been the best Zuko.

Does anyone think that was one of the reasons for him being picked as the VA to begin with?

P.S. Was it said when the new Avatar would be coming out?


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## Superstarseven (Nov 24, 2010)

Fall 2011.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 24, 2010)

It could also be a fake title, like they did in Book 3.


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## The Potential (Nov 24, 2010)

Fall 2011.... Thats so next year from now.


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## Jazzmatazz (Nov 24, 2010)

Jove said:


> It could also be a fake title, like they did in Book 3.



Or just a working title. The episode won't air for a year, so they could easily change it.

Besides "Skeletons in the Closet" doesn't sound very Avatar...y.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 24, 2010)

It's also a pretty bland and dreadfully unoriginal one, as well. This is not "City of Walls and Secrets;" I expect more from them.


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## Burke (Nov 24, 2010)

Just checked Dante's twitter and he says hes working with a lady called Eva Marie Saint, she played clark kents "mom" in the last movie, anyways, she is 86 years old! So, heres to you all who are hoping to see old main characters! No doubt she played either toph katara or suki or someone.


> Durr hurr but they said that...


Cling to your negativity!

Damn it jove its hard to type with bouncing booties staring at me.
Change your sig man!


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## CrazyAries (Nov 24, 2010)

Jove said:


>





Jove said:


> I just love how Basco has embraced the Rufio thing.





ReikaiDemon said:


> It would be funny if Rufio makes a small cameo in Korra xD
> 
> I can see Rufio in Avatar seriously, he's close enough to believably fit the Avatar style.





Superstarseven said:


> Well...Dante isn't a chameleon VA with lots of range. Whoever this new character is, he'll most likely sound like exactly like Zuko. They could do pitch his voice up as Disney did with American Dragon but that would mean that he's portraying a pre-teen.
> "Skeletons in The closet", what in the world could that be about? I wonder if Mike and Bryan could be moving away from titling episodes the way they did in The Last Airbender.
> 
> So many questions and there hasn't even been a cast list revealed. Now that I think about it, why exactly was Greg Baldwin's name under wraps for such a long time before season 3 premiered? I didn't see the need for that.





Proxy said:


> Rufio. That brings me back to Hook. If only he was still that age. His voice and Rufio's attitude would have been the best Zuko.
> 
> Does anyone think that was one of the reasons for him being picked as the VA to begin with?
> 
> P.S. Was it said when the new Avatar would be coming out?



I actually watched the movie Hook and always remembered Rufio. ( Side note: Jet and his gang were like the Lost Boys, without the flying and timelessness.) When I first saw Avatar and heard Zuko's voice, I remarked at how familiar it sounded.  I quickly remembered Hook and the young man who replaced Peter Pan as the leader of the Lost Boys.  I also saw Jake Long.


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## Superstarseven (Nov 24, 2010)

Apparently Rob Paulsen has a role on Korra also. Information was extracted via his Twitter account.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 25, 2010)

To my favorite people on the internet:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9dfW7nO3U[/YOUTUBE]


And don't forget to watch it tonight! And by all music nerd like me and listen to Vince Guaraldi Trio tonight.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 25, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> 1) When I said you should drunk and post, that is what we humans commonly refer to AS A JOKE! I understand that you're programming apparently doesn't allow you to "get" those. As proven by previous posts
> 
> 2) Remember when I said you need to loosen up... Yeah, that above quote is a textbook example of being way too fucking uptight.
> 
> I'm not exactly advocating that you drink or anything else, but anyone who states "I wish to retain my mental faculties *at all times*" should probably consider scheduling a surgery in order to remove that stick from so far up their ass.



You are not the first person to say to me that I am too uptight, Stab-O-Tron. I wish to deny such a claim, but if so many people have made such an observation, I fear that there may be some truth to it.

So, do you have any advice on how I can make my posts seem less "robotic" and more "natural?" How can I better convey my emotions and feelings in my writing?


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## The Potential (Nov 25, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> You are not the first person to say to me that I am too uptight, Stab-O-Tron. I wish to deny such a claim, but if so many people have made such an observation, I fear that there may be some truth to it.
> 
> So, do you have any advice on how I can make my posts seem less "robotic" and more "natural?" How can I better convey my emotions and feelings in my writing?



You remind me of Sai from Naruto.


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## Superstarseven (Nov 25, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> So, do you have any advice on how I can make my posts seem less "robotic" and more "natural?" How can I better convey my emotions and feelings in my writing?



What Stark is saying is you should start using contractions. It's not a sign of lesser intelligence, don't worry. By not using the term gay to refer to something that you simply don't like, you're already in a league above a large majority of people. I mean the way you write doesn't translate to your regular speech--correct?
Also DDJ, where are you from? If you're American then what geographic region of the U.S.?


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 25, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> You remind me of Sai from Naruto.


Without the creepy ambiguously gay vibe, and more of an awkward asexual tone


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 25, 2010)

No, it's not unusual, surnames back then, have mainly been utilized for noble families.


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## CrazyAries (Nov 26, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I know that nearly all of the main cast are dead by the time of _Avatar: Legend of Korra,_ but do you believe that Katara lived long enough to teach Korra to waterbend? I would very much like to see that; it would be a very emotionally-moving spiritual connection between the two of them.
> 
> Why is Toph one of the few characters in the entire series to have a family name? Is that not unusual?
> 
> And how is it possible that _all_ of the main characters will be dead by the time of the events in the new series? I know that seventy-five years is a long time, but some people in both actuality and the _Avatar: TLA_ universe have lived for over a century, so I do not see why perhaps one of two main characters from this series could still be alive and very old by the time that Korra is born and grown to adolescence. What does everyone else have to say about that?



It bothers me, as well, that the events of "Korra" will only take place 75 years after the end of "Avatar: The Last Airbender".  I believe that Kyoshi was around over 300 years before Aang was born and Roku's life was only shortened when he tried to fight the volcano.  His former friend, Forelord Sozin lived past the age of 100.  King Bumi lived to be at least 112 years old.  That would be nice if Katara had a hand in Korra's development.


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## Wan (Nov 26, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am not certain if I can bring myself to use contractions, at least not on an internet forum. In actuality, I give a great effort to keep my speech as formal and proper as possible, just as I do online, but doing do in actuality is more difficult than it is to do online, as I often am more excited then and I also do not have the benefit of being able to visually review my words before I say them, as I do here. Therefore, while my speech in actuality is still noticeably different from that of my friends and even my family members, it is not quite as rigid or mechanical as it is here online.



It's...not supposed to be.  There's a reason formal speech is called that -- because it's supposed to be _more_ eloquent and refined than normal speech.  An ordinary conversation is not the same thing as a valedictorian speech.  An post on an unofficial forum dedicated to a manga/anime series is not the same thing as a term paper.  They call for different language usage.  Writing reviews of a television show and posting on a forum is not professional, doesn't need to be, and using formal language does _not_ make it professional.  Such language doesn't gain anything here other than, as you have observed, coming across as robotic and impersonal.  So why write posts like that? 

You're with friendly people.  The best way to be friendly back is to talk on our level, not seek to elevate yourself as "formal and proper".  Are you then suggesting that we're improper?


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 26, 2010)

Senju Warrior said:


> It bothers me, as well, that the events of "Korra" will only take place 75 years after the end of "Avatar: The Last Airbender".  I believe that Kyoshi was around over 300 years before Aang was born and Roku's life was only shortened when he tried to fight the volcano.  His former friend, Forelord Sozin lived past the age of 100.  King Bumi lived to be at least 112 years old.  That would be nice if Katara had a hand in Korra's development.


Well, Aang did intensively hibernate for a century


Mordin Solus said:


> It's...not supposed to be.  There's a reason formal speech is called that -- because it's supposed to be _more_ eloquent and refined than normal speech.  An ordinary conversation is not the same thing as a valedictorian speech.  An post on an unofficial forum dedicated to a manga/anime series is not the same thing as a term paper.  They call for different language usage.  Writing reviews of a television show and posting on a forum is not professional, doesn't need to be, and using formal language does _not_ make it professional.  Such language doesn't gain anything here other than, as you have observed, coming across as robotic and impersonal.  So why write posts like that?
> 
> You're with friendly people.  The best way to be friendly back is to talk on our level, not seek to elevate yourself as "formal and proper".  Are you then suggesting that we're improper?


Yeah, and it's kind of condescending <.<

Not that we feel threatened or anything, it just feels belittling.


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## CrazyAries (Nov 26, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, Aang did intensively hibernate for a century



Yes, I have thought about that...do you suppose the hibernation shortened Aang's life, or will it be shown that he went down swinging?


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## ElementX (Nov 26, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> To change topics completely, do you believe that Sokka became the chief of the Southern Water Tribe eventually? He was the son of the current chief, so I imagine that he would have, unless that position is not hereditary.



I suggested on the other thread that Sokka might one day become chief. To which somebody replied, "thats a gd thry". So yea 

Anyway, DDJ your speech kind of comes off like this:

I don't think the way you talk is condescending or anything. I always thought you were genuine. It's just different. But that's just me.


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## Ms. Jove (Nov 26, 2010)

Senju Warrior said:


> It bothers me, as well, that the events of "Korra" will only take place 75 years after the end of "Avatar: The Last Airbender".  I believe that Kyoshi was around over 300 years before Aang was born and Roku's life was only shortened when he tried to fight the volcano.  His former friend, Forelord Sozin lived past the age of 100.  King Bumi lived to be at least 112 years old.  That would be nice if Katara had a hand in Korra's development.



It's a point, but just because some have lived that long doesn't mean everyone equally powerful and spiritually aware will. Roku was already quite aged by the time he died, and depending on who you believe he was merely in his mid 50's to mid 60's. The only reason Sozin made to past 100 was because of the comet.

The way people live longer is something they could work with in future series, for sure.


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## CrazyAries (Nov 26, 2010)

Jove said:


> It's a point, but just because some have lived that long doesn't mean everyone equally powerful and spiritually aware will. Roku was already quite aged by the time he died, and depending on who you believe he was merely in his mid 50's to mid 60's. The only reason Sozin made to past 100 was because of the comet.
> 
> The way people live longer is something they could work with in future series, for sure.



It would also be interesting to know what Bumi's secret was.....


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## VerdantVenus (Nov 26, 2010)

Senju Warrior said:


> It would also be interesting to know what Bumi's secret was.....


Coming out of the closet?

Hey, if Dumbledore was...


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## Kirito (Nov 26, 2010)

Senju Warrior said:


> It would also be interesting to know what Bumi's secret was.....



Bumi x Toph


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 26, 2010)

I think it would be kind of awesome if the only character from the first series still alive in "Korra" was Bumi.


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## Wan (Nov 26, 2010)

Hey, Kyoshi lived to be over two centuries old, why can't Bumi!


----------



## Gunners (Nov 26, 2010)

Aang and Zuko having short lives I can understand as they both suffered severe injuries. I assumed Sokka and Toph would live long. 

Perhaps they died in battle.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 26, 2010)

Toph died the way she lived...

Eating pork rinds nonstop/


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 26, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> No, it's not unusual, surnames back then, have mainly been utilized for noble families.



In that case, why does the Fire Nation's royal family not have a family name, or if they do, why was it never stated in the series?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 26, 2010)

I don't know, man... _because_?


----------



## Gunners (Nov 26, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In that case, why does the Fire Nation's royal family not have a family name, or if they do, why was it never stated in the series?



Their titles speak for itself. Firelord, Firelord, Prince, Princess.


----------



## ~Kyo~ (Nov 26, 2010)

wow dont mean to be extremely late to the convo but, theres potentially another series coming out, following up the avatar series? Holy shit how the hell did I not know about this?



wow just read the wikki it is true then. Awesome


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 26, 2010)

Twas pleasantly surprised myself


----------



## Burke (Nov 26, 2010)

Hey new guys! Sure hope you stick around, Im Noops, the threads greeter. Not really much else for me to be, i leave the discussion up to reikai and sir jove.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 27, 2010)

Here's the entirety of the deleted scene from the film that I posted a couple days back.

*1. "Stay the Night" (Blunt, Robson, Tedder, Marley) – 3:36*

Kyoshi Warriors make an appearance - look out for them.


----------



## Burke (Nov 27, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Here's the entirety of the deleted scene from the film that I posted a couple days back.
> 
> *1. "Stay the Night" (Blunt, Robson, Tedder, Marley) – 3:36*
> 
> Kyoshi Warriors make an appearance - look out for them.



I think i cried a bit.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 27, 2010)

I missed them. I did notice the crew members in shot at 1:15; I didn't notice that before.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm sorry guys, don't know why I re-linked to the video I originally posted.

Here's the actual video I meant to link to - 


*1. "Stay the Night" (Blunt, Robson, Tedder, Marley) – 3:36*


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 27, 2010)

Ridiculous. Even with how dreadful the movie ended up being, the editing actually saved it. What amateurish scripting and direction.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 27, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I think it would be kind of awesome if the only character from the first series still alive in "Korra" was Bumi.



:rofl That would seriously just be..


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 27, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> I'm sorry guys, don't know why I re-linked to the video I originally posted.
> 
> Here's the actual video I meant to link to -
> 
> ...





> To have put Aunt Wu in this scene would have been too much like making  the fans happy. And we know what lengths Shyamalan went to to avoid  doing that.


Dear god, why? The series never called attention to the language, and we have this fake medium guessing the English alphabet.

Well, there you have it, this would've been a WORSE adaptation if they DID keep everything in.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 27, 2010)

And what's the point of this, that diviners are bogus? That they use cold reading? Well, the show did this, and with much more grace and wisdom.

A totally wasted scene, and, surprise surprise, even with the deleted scenes there is no character development. In fact, proportionally less.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 27, 2010)

Bit of a rip from Harry Potter kinda, so-called diviner gets possessed and has a real vision/omen.

I know it's been done before, but HP is the only one I can recall now <_<


----------



## Burke (Nov 27, 2010)

To think the film couldhave been worse...


----------



## Noah (Nov 27, 2010)

I have now watched all 3 deleted scenes. I can't explain why, but my face feels similar to what I expect stroke victims feel. Surely it's coincidental.


Can you use your Ultimo Mod powers to add that to the smiley list? And code it :TLA ? Please?


----------



## Anbu Deidara (Nov 27, 2010)

I can't remember the last time I watched Avatar but I saw all the episodes and all of them are great and I look forward to watching them again soon.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 28, 2010)

Deep denial going on right here - 


> *Some guy on Facebook*:
> Guys as far as legend of korra goes nick have said nothing and being in charge of the company I think they have some sway. From the forums to the nick site there is nothing to support the series bar a few deviant art pictures (yes they are ...from deviant art) and an outlined plot that sounds like its from x-men.
> 
> I honestly don't think nick wants another avatar series. Avatar was expensive to make millions of dollars an episode and it didn't validate the cost over cheaper shows. The games and toys don't sell nearly as well as any other series on nick.
> ...



He's an ass that needed to be coRRected.


----------



## Noah (Nov 28, 2010)

^ don't you mean Korracted?


----------



## Burke (Nov 28, 2010)

Yes, even though Danta Basco makes frequent tweets that he is going over to nick studios to record


----------



## The Potential (Nov 28, 2010)

Noah said:


> ^ don't you mean *Korracted?*



 good one bro.


----------



## ~Kyo~ (Nov 28, 2010)

> I honestly don't think nick wants another avatar series. Avatar was expensive to make millions of dollars an episode and it didn't validate the cost over cheaper shows. The games and toys don't sell nearly as well as any other series on nick.
> They prefer (as do most buisnesses) to put there money into series that make a huge profit. Things like icarly that are cheap to make, they stick here picture on a 50p stationary set and then its worth £4.00.
> Think disney with hanna montana, cheap to make and cheap to merchandise and the series brings in billions.
> For a series to be a succes it has to bring in double what it cost to make to make it a run away succes, avatar didn't.
> Over time its made loads but that isn't enough for a company to validate another series.



lul, and the series OBVIOUSLY didnt make BILLIONS of dollars, nor did it receive WORLD recognition, nor did the show win multiple GLOBAL awards? Right.
Nor was a movie made to try and pilot off its success even more (which horribley failed, leave it to shamalyn to make one really good move years ago and fail at almost every one he makes after)

Thats quite possibley the dumbest thing ive heard since sliced bread.


----------



## ElementX (Nov 28, 2010)

To his credit, as successful a show Avatar was, Nick completely screwed it over at the end of the third season. Showing the entire last half of the season during the _summer_? Not to mention airing the finale on a Saturday.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 28, 2010)

The entire third season was promoted terribly. It's almost as if Nick felt the online fandom that had increased with each year was enough to not spend airtime on airing promos and spots. Sure the hardcore fans had the date of the season premiere marked on the calendars but the casual fans, understandingly, forgot about the show after 10 months.

Promotion of Book 3 should have begun 3 months before the start date. I remember the ratings, the show didn't even crack a million. Back At The Barnyard took Avatar's 8pm timeslot and were getting around a 3.3 share and there wasn't even a trickle down either, it's as if everyone tuned out. Now the week that Nick were burning off the rest of season 3 after about a 4 or 5 month break, the promotions and marketing department got up off their behinds and started advertising the show finally. 

For airing on a Saturday, the series finale did get a solid 5 share which were the highest in the show's history. Whether it would have received a higher rating on a weekday...we'll never know.


----------



## Shade (Nov 29, 2010)

I'm glad Nick isn't like another certain US network which cancels quality shows at even a slight dip in viewership.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 29, 2010)

Shade said:


> I'm glad Nick isn't like another certain US network which cancels quality shows at even a slight dip in viewership.


Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! Me! ME! ME!

Okay, um. 

What is Fox?


----------



## Noah (Nov 29, 2010)

Eff FOX, seriously. I want my goddamn Sarah Connor Chronicles back. The show was shit for the first season and they renewed it. Season Two got seriously epic galacticAVATAR....and they moved it to Fridays; the nursing home of network tv shows.

At least with Avatar, we got an ending despite the stupid shit Nick did. I'll give them credit for that.


----------



## Wan (Nov 30, 2010)

> Some guy on Facebook:
> Guys as far as legend of korra goes nick have said nothing and being in charge of the company I think they have some sway. From the forums to the nick site there is nothing to support the series bar a few deviant art pictures (yes they are ...from deviant art) and an outlined plot that sounds like its from x-men.
> 
> I honestly don't think nick wants another avatar series. Avatar was expensive to make millions of dollars an episode and it didn't validate the cost over cheaper shows. The games and toys don't sell nearly as well as any other series on nick.
> ...



Someone got handed the idiot ball.  So that's where Zuko put it after he went to join Aang...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 30, 2010)




----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 30, 2010)

I've seen those pictures linked to before. The similarity comes from the curvature of their backs and the forearm bands that they're wearing.


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 30, 2010)

Because, you know, that's such an uncommon pose.

The only similarity is the Final Fantasy series having no actual male characters, so the waste lines are similar.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 30, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


>



What point is trying to be made here? I have missed out on the last few pages..


----------



## Quaero (Nov 30, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]X6kQ-rV5ark[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]30sjoX1kuYg[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]kQr0quRT97A[/YOUTUBE]

Not sure if this has been posted here before. 

It's a behind the scenes video about the series, it shows the development of the show from the initial pitch until the very finale. It came in the collectors edition of the water book I think. 



Anyway, for those who haven't watched it yet, do yourselves a favor an WATCH IT RIGHT NOW!


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 30, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Because, you know, that's such an uncommon pose.
> 
> The only similarity is the Final Fantasy series having no actual male characters, so the waste lines are similar.



Auron and Baltheir would like a word with you. 

Other than that though. Yeah, the rest is a gaggle of effeminate boy men. Hell, when I first saw a picture of Lightning's face (in 13) I just assumed it was going to be a dude until I saw boobs and a miniskirt.


----------



## The Potential (Nov 30, 2010)

Quaero said:


> [YOUTUBE]X6kQ-rV5ark[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> [YOUTUBE]30sjoX1kuYg[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> [YOUTUBE]kQr0quRT97A[/YOUTUBE]



Man how I love and miss Avatar! There will never be another show quite like it.


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 30, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Auron and Baltheir would like a word with you.
> 
> Other than that though. Yeah, the rest is a gaggle of effeminate boy men. Hell, when I first saw a picture of Lightning's face (in 13) I just assumed it was going to be a dude until I saw boobs and a miniskirt.



I guess you're right there.

But Nomura should not design anymore characters.  Ever.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 30, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I guess you're right there.
> 
> But Nomura should not design anymore characters.  Ever.


Never thought I'd meet a fellow Nomura dissenter. I get so ostracized on Gamefaqs for voicing my dislikes for Nomura >_>


----------



## Wan (Nov 30, 2010)

Quaero said:


> [YOUTUBE]X6kQ-rV5ark[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> [YOUTUBE]30sjoX1kuYg[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for posting this!  I especially like the first video where a lot of the people who worked on the show give there names.  It's good to see the faces of the people who made it part of their careers to work on the show.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Auron and Baltheir would like a word with you.
> 
> Other than that though. Yeah, the rest is a gaggle of effeminate boy men. Hell, when I first saw a picture of Lightning's face (in 13) I just assumed it was going to be a dude until I saw boobs and a miniskirt.



The male characters in VI seemed alright.  But maybe that's just because that was before FF jumped into the third dimension.  Still, it's hard to imagine guys like Sabin or Cyan being effeminate.


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 30, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Never thought I'd meet a fellow Nomura dissenter. I get so ostracized on Gamefaqs for voicing my dislikes for Nomura >_>



There's a plenty--and arguably so, considering.

BELTS AND ZIPPERS


----------



## VerdantVenus (Nov 30, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> There's a plenty--and arguably so, considering.
> 
> BELTS AND ZIPPERS


LEATHER FETISH


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 1, 2010)

In _The Ember Island Players,_ I liked the scene where the actress playing Azula said, "Look over there, Zuko! It's your honor!" I found that line to be very humorous, but also slightly accurate. Did anyone else like that line?


----------



## Misha-San (Dec 1, 2010)

lol I laughed at that part I also like the part of the little kid telling Zuko's scar is on the wrong side xD


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 1, 2010)

Misha-San said:


> lol I laughed at that part I also like the part of the little kid telling Zuko's scar is on the wrong side xD



I wonder if that boy ever learned that that was the actual Zuko to whom he was speaking, or if anyone learned that the actual people themselves were present at the play?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 1, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I wonder if that boy ever learned that that was the actual Zuko to whom he was speaking, or if anyone learned that the actual people themselves were present at the play?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if the ticket lady realized that was the real Avatar she was speaking to.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if Aang ever got Sokka's Fire Flakes?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if Zuko ever found his HONOOOOOOR!!!!

Not his honor you know, his HONOOOOOOR!!!! Completely different thing.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 2, 2010)

Did Momo's little heart ever get mended after being rejected by Puppet Momo?  He just wanted to save the species!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if those guys Sokka dropped into the ocean survived.


----------



## Shade (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder what happened to Jet.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if Aang stuck his tongue in Katara's mouth at the end?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 2, 2010)

Shade said:


> I wonder what happened to Jet.


He blasted off again


----------



## Noah (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if Sokka ever ended up realizing he can't draw and enrolled in an art school?


----------



## Koi (Dec 2, 2010)

I wondering if those pirates ever considered a different career path?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if Bloodbending is a healthy alternative to ED medicine.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if any of the villagers cared enough to get Shuu/Doc proper medical attention for his multiple personality disorder?


----------



## Koi (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if Meng ever married a man with big ears?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 2, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I wonder if any of the villagers cared enough to get Shuu/Doc proper medical attention for his multiple personality disorder?


Bushi would have convinced them not to look into Dock and Xu's dissociative identity disorder.

Though I wonder if he has a personality for sexing up the Painted Lady.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 2, 2010)

If Zuko angsts in a forest, and no one is around to hear him, does he make fan girls wet?


----------



## Koi (Dec 2, 2010)

No he just whines and whines and SILVER SANDWICH


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 2, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> If Zuko angsts in a forest, and no one is around to hear him, does he make fan girls wet?


Only if the Unagi can see the resulting flames.


----------



## Noah (Dec 2, 2010)

Will Cabbage Merchant ever get to open his Cabbage Restaurant? And if he does, will it be successful enough to become a chain and franchise it in varying Earth Kingdom villages?


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 2, 2010)

Jackie Diaz of How I Became Yours fame posted a video of herself high on hash.
This girl has to be a member of Mensa.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 2, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Jackie Diaz of How I Became Yours fame posted a video of herself high on hash.
> This girl has to be a member of Mensa.



It's good to know that no matter how stupid someone shows themselves to be, they can always find new ways to reassert it.


----------



## Undead (Dec 2, 2010)

Hey guys, where is a good site(s) for watching all the episodes of Avatar? Can't find a good site.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 2, 2010)

dubhappy.com or watch-avatar.com if it still exists.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 2, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> Jackie Diaz of How I Became Yours fame posted a video of herself high on hash.
> This girl has to be a member of Mensa.





​




Mider T said:


> dubhappy.com or watch-avatar.com if it still exists.




NO. Stop directing people to these sites. Go to this, an actual Avatar fansite.


----------



## Shade (Dec 2, 2010)

^ Franky. 

That panel was gold.


----------



## Burke (Dec 2, 2010)

Koi said:


> No he just whines and whines and SILVER SANDWICH



What is this supposed to mean? I dont...

OH i see


----------



## The Potential (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder what happend to, Sokka's space sword.


----------



## ElementX (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder how Sozin could get his wife pregnant at the age of 82. 

Also to those who don't know, Nick posted the majority of the episodes for free on their official site.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if 9 months after the show, this came back to haunt everyone:


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 2, 2010)

Wow, if only Nick could air episodes on their prime channel.


----------



## Shade (Dec 2, 2010)

^ Nick Canada shows 2 episodes a day on weekends.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 2, 2010)

Shade said:


> ^ Nick Canada shows 2 episodes a day on weekends.


Hate US Nick so much...


----------



## Mider T (Dec 2, 2010)

Love Nicktoons so much.  Nick is getting pretty good again what with that new Butch Hartman cartoon and Planet Sheen.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 2, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Love Nicktoons so much.  Nick is getting pretty good again what with that new Butch Hartman cartoon and Planet Sheen.


*Doesn't have Nicktoons*

Avatar dammit!

*Peels you*


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 2, 2010)

I mean, do I _really_ have to add a whole package to my cable just for Nicktoons? Am I almost to that point?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 2, 2010)

Sounds like you're local cable company has a monopoly in the area..feels good to be able to pick in choose because of competition


----------



## Koi (Dec 2, 2010)

..I honestly do wonder what happened to the Earth King and Bosco.


----------



## CrazyAries (Dec 2, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> I wonder what happend to, Sokka's space sword.



That was an awesome sword. 



Jove said:


> I wonder if 9 months after the show, this came back to haunt everyone:



That would mean that it was not just the power that drove Azula insane, but the hormones. .....



Jove said:


> I mean, do I _really_ have to add a whole package to my cable just for Nicktoons? Am I almost to that point?



Do you have Time Warner?  I did and hated it.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 2, 2010)

When I feel like answering any of these questions I stop myself.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 2, 2010)

Koi said:


> ..I honestly do wonder what happened to the Earth King and Bosco.



Me, too. I get the feeling that his "journey" with Bosco suggests that he would return to Ba Sing Se and rule as an Avatar version of enlightened despotism.


----------



## Wan (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if Foamy ever met the Cabbage Guy.


----------



## Koi (Dec 3, 2010)

SOKKA LOST HIS VIRGINITY IN _THE SOUTHERN RAIDERS_.

I'm being completely serious.  Why was he waiting for Suki in the tent, with flowers and candles?  Why was she so nervous and jumpy?  Most importantly, what was Sokka seen making the next day?  A string of flowers-- _a lei_.


----------



## Omolara (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm pretty sure that Azula's a virgin. She may know how to use sex appeal, but she'd never lower herself to actually doing it with anyone she could manipulate that way. 
One can have sex appeal (dear God, WHY are we discussing this?) and know how to use it without actually _having_ sex.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

Koi said:


> SOKKA LOST HIS VIRGINITY IN _THE SOUTHERN RAIDERS_.
> 
> I'm being completely serious.  Why was he waiting for Suki in the tent, with flowers and candles?  Why was she so nervous and jumpy?  Most importantly, what was Sokka seen making the next day?  A string of flowers-- _a lei_.


Zuko wanted some of Sokka too.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> And while I am on that subject, I have a question to ask; I am not certain how some users may react to it, but I wish to ask it, anyway.
> 
> From the beginning to the end of the series, which characters do you believe were and were not virgins? I have already asked that question for _Naruto, Bleach,_ and _One Piece,_ so I now wish to ask it for this series, as well.





Ok, seriously. You won't type with contractions for fear of not being "proper", but then you apply that eloquent verbosity to posts about which particular cartoon characters are boning?

You. Have. Issues!

And god help me. So must I because I'm going to respond. 



DemonDragonJ said:


> I imagine that Aang, Sokka, Katara, Toph, and likely Zuko were all virgins, at least at the beginning of the series, as were most of the younger characters, while most of the older characters, such as Hakoda, Kanna, Pakku, Bumi, Ozai, and Iroh were not, and the ones who were parents obviously were not. I believe that it is safe to presume that Mai and Ty Lee were, as well, but *Azula is much less certain, as I can easily image that she used her sex appeal to manipulate others, as she is so skilled at doing.*



1. SHE'S 14!

2. She's also a princess and arguably the second most powerful person in the Fire Nation. Both as a bender, and politically. She has the power to order someone's execution as easily as one would order a sandwich, and most likely has no particular reservations about doing such (the execution, not the sandwich). So please explain to me why in god's name would she need to whore herself out to get what she wants?




DemonDragonJ said:


> It is entirely possible that Sokka may have had sexual relations with Suki before the final battle, but obviously, there is no conclusive evidence of that.



I think that was pretty heavily implied in "The Southern Raiders" episode. 




DemonDragonJ said:


> Jet and his freedom fighters experienced many horrors and lived a difficult and uncertain life, so there is definitely a possibility that they may have engaged in sexual activity, *either willingly or unwillingly.*



Fuck me!? Are you actually suggesting that Jet and his gang were running around the forest _RAPING PEOPLE!?!?_

Allow me to quote myself on this one.



			
				Stab-o-tron5000 said:
			
		

> You. Have. Issues!





DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, to change topic again, do you believe that any of the heroes may have left some legacy behind, in the case that future heroes would need to protect the world again from a great threat?



It's shit like this that make people question whether you "get" the show...

YES! They left something behind to help future generations deal with a great threat. IT'S CALLED *THE AVATAR!*

You may have caught them talking about him/her once or twice during the run of the show.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Imagine if one of them left behind advice, bending techniques, or items to assist future generations, such as Sokka's sword, water from the spirit oasis, or a fragment of Sozin's Comet;



Why? Sokka's sword was just a sword. It doesn't have magic powers. It wouldn't do anything to aid any future warrior that _any other sword_ wouldn't also do. The water from the spirit oasis isn't theirs to "hand down" and even if the Avatar world had some kind of space program, what would a "fragment of Sozin's Comet" even do. Make a pretty necklace? It effects the  
firebenders because it's a massive flaming comet that gives them another, closer, source of energy to draw from other than the sun. A little tiny non-flamming fragment isn't going to do anything. 




DemonDragonJ said:


> would that not be an interesting idea?



No.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 3, 2010)

Omolara said:


> I'm pretty sure that Azula's a virgin. She may know how to use sex appeal, but she'd never lower herself to actually doing it with anyone she could manipulate that way.



No she doesn't. Watch "The Beach" again (despite Jove's protests). That was kinda the whole point of her part in the episode. She knows how to get what she wants through threats and violence. She has no idea how to use sex appeal.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 3, 2010)

DDJ always brings up the most pressing issues in a way that's entertaining to read, but articulate and nicely put.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Ok, seriously. You won't type with contractions for fear of not being "proper", but then you apply that eloquent verbosity to posts about which particular cartoon characters are boning?
> 
> You. Have. Issues!
> 
> ...


Your posts are my orgasms.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 3, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Your posts are my orgasms.



You're welcome.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> You're welcome.


I regret to blame you over my sticky panties though.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm going to have to agree with Reikai on this one.


----------



## Nimander (Dec 3, 2010)

CrazyAries said:


> That was an awesome sword.



It'll make a cameo in the next series; count on it.


----------



## Omolara (Dec 3, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> No she doesn't. Watch "The Beach" again (despite Jove's protests). *That was kinda the whole point of her part in the episode.* She knows how to get what she wants through threats and violence. She has no idea how to use sex appeal.



And then there's that. 
I was just responding to the assertion that using sexual appeal and having had sex go hand in hand. That isn't so. 
One can be seductive without ever getting into bed with anyone. 

But, as you said, Azula isn't really sexual. _Seductive_ in a way, but not one to get what she wants in a sexual way. And yes, for the love of God, she is 14. 

You've seen what's out there on FFN, does this subject matter really surprise you?


----------



## Koi (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd say Azula is more sensual than sexual.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 3, 2010)

Koi said:


> I'd say Azula is more sensual than sexual.



I'm fully in the "neither" camp. The one time she was sensual was in The Awakening, and she was supposed to be seem shadowy and it came off _way_ beyond what they intended.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

I think from a power standpoint, she's seductive.

But more from a charismatic leader kind of way than sexual.

Hell, the Dai Li followed her because of her power.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 3, 2010)

Azula's all talk.  She's a master of manipulation, so of course she'll naturally know how to use her feminine charms to get what she wants.  She'd still be a noob in snoo snoo though.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 3, 2010)

Yes, but did DemonDragonJ mean it in a way even resembling that level?


Long Feng was a fool. I feel like if Bumi was in that situation he would have stared her right in the face in crushed her coup on his own.

Actually, I'd like to submit to our congress that Bumi > Azula and would defeat her 8 out of 10 times.


----------



## Noah (Dec 3, 2010)

Representative ThisGuy approves of said proposal.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 3, 2010)

Representative Nodonn requests that we don't waste time on the obvious.


----------



## Wan (Dec 3, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Ok, seriously. You won't type with contractions for fear of not being "proper", but then you apply that eloquent verbosity to posts about which particular cartoon characters are boning?
> 
> You. Have. Issues!



Approved 100%.  DDJ is no more "proper-minded" than a random lurker one could find in the Bath House.  There's a thing called "style over substance", and I think DDJ might be majorly overcompensating one for the other, so he can talk himself to sleep at night thinking he's better than the average pervert.


----------



## ElementX (Dec 3, 2010)

So are we in agreement that Sokka and Suki are the only ones that got it on? Cuz Zuko and Mai had a lot of off screen time together...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 3, 2010)

ElementX said:


> So are we in agreement that Sokka and Suki are the only ones that got it on? Cuz Zuko and Mai had a lot of off screen time together...



Yes, I also think that the interactions between Mai and Zuko were very suggestive, such as when they were kissing and then interrupted by Azula; they just ignored Azula and Mai left only when Azula said that Ty Lee requires assistance with something. Imagine how far they would have gone if Azula had not interrupted?


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 3, 2010)

IT BEGINS!

YES! DANCE, _DANCE!_

Also, 200 posts left.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 3, 2010)

Are you a robot DDJ?


----------



## Wan (Dec 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I take great offense at this post. Why is it considered to be "perverse" to discuss the sexuality of fictional characters? Sexuality is a normal part of human life, and I do not believe that it is a topic that should be a taboo or one that is kept hidden from the general populace. I am attempting to discuss this subject in a mature and rational manner, and I actually am of the opinion that by calling me a "pervert," or by responding to my posts in the manner that they are, the other users of this forum are being less than fully mature about this subject. So, is it possible that everyone here can give me some leeway for exercising my powers of logic and analysis, which only humans among all the animals on this world possess?



She's _fourteen._  Why would you even think that way about her?  There should be a natural aversion to bringing that subject up about someone so young.  I know fourteen year old girls.  Most often, they are _not_ in the physical or emotional state to be ready for such activity.  The fact that you bring it up without even a hint of shame indicates perversion in that respect.

Secondly, yes, sexuality is a normal part of life.  However, there are two things you don't seem to get about it.  First of all, for the vast majority of history, sexuality has only been considered "proper" within a marriage relationship.  That may seem to be changing with the modern generation, but in my view that is simply this generation becoming "improper" and immoral compared to the standard all other generations have had.  If one is trying to be proper, he or she should abstain from supporting that movement, not wholeheartedly embrace it.  You are probing for opinions on fictional characters not in marriage relationships, and thus are being improper.

Secondly, sexuality has always been a topic of _discretion._  Do we go around talking about Barack Obama's sex life with Michelle Obama?  No, of course not!  That would be the pinnacle of disrespecting the two, aside from making racist comments about them.  Propriety on this subject does not change just because some characters, be they real or fictional, intrigue you more than others.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 3, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> Representative Nodonn requests that we don't waste time on the obvious.




As Avatar Joveku, you'll do whatever I want and indulge whatever I say.




ElementX said:


> So are we in agreement that Sokka and Suki are the only ones that got it on? Cuz Zuko and Mai had a lot of off screen time together...




If we're talking about who had sex on the show, what do you think Pakku's first order of business was when he got to the Southern Water Tribe?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *my powers of logic and analysis, which only humans among all the animals on this world possess?*


Wait, whuuut?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 3, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Wait, whuuut?



Let me translate. 



			
				DemonDragonJ said:
			
		

> I take myself *waaaay* to fucking seriously!



This is how I imagine a conversation between DDJ and his friends going down. First, let me post how a normal session of "giving some shit" goes between normal humans.

"Hey assface, you want to do something tonight."

"Eh, sure. What you got in mind douche?"

- - - - -

What probably happens between DDJ and his friends. 

"Hey assface, you want to do something tonight."

"Under normal circumstances I would agree to the possibly of scheduling an activity. Though I take offense to the decision you have made to insult me. I believe you could have asked such a question with out doing so and adding such is a sign of immaturity on your part. I do not believe my face has any qualities that would cause you to draw a comparison between the two. I also believe that, through the years I have contributed enough to this friendship as to not be subject to such harsh and unnecessary criticism.

That being said, I would be most curious as to which particular activity 
you had in mind."


----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2010)

Jove said:


> As Avatar Joveku, you'll do whatever I want and indulge whatever I say.


Seconded



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Let me translate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think DDJ is a Cylon


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 3, 2010)

I hope this is the part where DDJ throws down the neghammer and calls our mothers whores so we finally know he's human.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> Seconded
> 
> 
> 
> I think DDJ is a Cylon


Spoiler: We're all Cylons.

I don't know DDJ's deal though.





> No, I am a human, and proud to be one; why do you ask such a question?  Could a robot speak in such an intellectual manner? Could a robot have a  favorite character in this series? Could a robot become annoyed by the  responses that the other users have given to my posts? The answer to all  three questions is no, because robots are not yet sufficiently advanced  to have intelligence comparable to that of humans.



Oh snap, oh no you dinnit! Hey, guess what? Servophobes are so 90's, get with the times.

My robot ancestors did not suffer y2k to put up with this shit.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> No, I am a human, and proud to be one; why do you ask such a question? Could a robot speak in such an intellectual manner? Could a robot have a favorite character in this series? Could a robot become annoyed by the responses that the other users have given to my posts? The answer to all three questions is no, because robots are not yet sufficiently advanced to have intelligence comparable to that of humans.



That's just what I'd expect a robot to say!

In all seriousness. Did you miss the part where I hinted that maybe you should stop taking yourself so seriously? Because holy shit.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 3, 2010)

I think experience has thought us that if it's hinted at, DDJ will interpret the shit out of it.
I think he got it


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 3, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> I hope this is the part where DDJ throws down the neghammer and calls our mothers whores so we finally know he's human.



Pathetic fools! Do you really believe that I will allow your childish taunting to upset me? I am not so weak-willed as to be goaded by such words!


How was that? Was that sufficient to convince that I am a human (not that I needed to prove it)?


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 3, 2010)

everyone here is stupid


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> everyone here is stupid



Why do you say that? What have we done to cause you to form such an opinion?


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 3, 2010)

**


----------



## Noah (Dec 3, 2010)

There are days when I have faith in people.

...and then I come here and want to kill myself to spare any future misery.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 3, 2010)




----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 3, 2010)

And just what is that supposed to mean?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> everyone here is stupid


And LOVING IT


----------



## Gunners (Dec 3, 2010)

> "Under normal circumstances I would agree to the possibly of scheduling an activity. Though I take offense to the decision you have made to insult me. I believe you could have asked such a question with out doing so and adding such is a sign of immaturity on your part. I do not believe my face has any qualities that would cause you to draw a comparison between the two. I also believe that, through the years I have contributed enough to this friendship as to not be subject to such harsh and unnecessary criticism.


Classical.     .


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 3, 2010)




----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> [noum]----------[/um]



Dashes? Cmon atleast leave me a secret message.
**


----------



## Shade (Dec 3, 2010)

DDJ might be a chatbot.


----------



## The Potential (Dec 3, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Let me translate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:rofl

This *Literaly*, made me laugh and start to tear. You sir, are funny.


----------



## Wan (Dec 3, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, she is fourteen years old, but she appears and acts as if she were much older. Many of the main characters in _Bleach_ and _Naruto_ are very young, yet there is an abundance of erotic material featuring them, and I have never seen you complain about that. Plus, Azula is a fictional character, so he age is completely irrelevant. She is not molded after a real person, nor does a real person portray her, apart from her voice; she exists only as images drawn on paper or digital information stored on a computer. I explained very thoroughly in an entry on my blog on this forum why and how animated and illustrated erotica is not the same as live-action erotica. I find Azula to be physically attractive and I admire her assertive personality, even if I dislike how she manipulates other people to get her way and therefore causes them great psychological torment. If I wish to wonder about her sexual status, or that of any other character, I believe that I have the freedom to do so, and the fact that I can discuss it without shame means simply that I am comfortable discussing such subjects, compared to some people who may not be comfortable doing so; it means nothing, more and nothing less, than that.



Of course it's relevant when it's a fictional character.  If Azula was back to the age she was shown in "Zuko Alone", would it not be perverted to talk about her sexuality then?  She retains all the same character traits -- sadism, manipulation, prodigious talent -- the only thing that has changed is her age.

And sure, you have the freedom to talk about the sexuality of any fictional character of any age.  I also have the freedom to call you improper and a pervert for doing so.



> We must agree to disagree on that subject, in that case, for I do not believe that the subject of sexuality should be limited to a committed marriage. However this is not the thread in which to discuss such a subject, so I shall not say anything more on it here.



Very well.  I must point out the irony, though, that for someone who presumes to be proper, you are rebelling against a moral and tradition that most generations have considered very proper.



> I unfortunately must agree with you on this subject, but only as far as real-life people are concerned. Fictional characters are exactly that-fictional characters-and I therefore believe that there is no problem with discussing their sex lives, just as there is no problem with discussing their favorite colors, favorite foods, or other aspects of their personal lives. They obviously are not in any position to respond, or even care about what the audience thinks of them.



So what would you say if someone started discussing the sex lives of Spongebob Squarepants, Mickey Mouse, or Mario?


> Now to change subjects completely, could a non-firebender, or a non-bender, redirect lightning if they had perfect control of their ki? After all, Iroh developed the technique from observing waterbenders, so I wonder if it is possible for other benders, or even normal people, to utilize, it, as well.



I don't think so, because lighting generation is limited to firebending.  Other benders are able to manipulate their own chi within their body, but they cannot use their chi to either generate or influence lightning.



Shade said:


> DDJ might be a chatbot.



I wonder if he's related to Cleverbot.


----------



## ElementX (Dec 3, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> So what would you say if someone started discussing the sex lives of Spongebob Squarepants, Mickey Mouse, or Mario?



C'mon, stop acting like you never thought about Minnie and Peach in that way. As for spongebob...


----------



## ElementX (Dec 3, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> everyone here is stupid



Are you implying that certain people on this thread are trolling?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 3, 2010)

I wonder how Professor Zei is doing in the subterranean library.


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 3, 2010)

Owl food


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

Shade said:


> DDJ might be a chatbot.


Oooor...The chatbots are DDJ! OMG


Jove said:


> I wonder how Professor Zei is doing in the subterranean library.





Soul Assassin said:


> Owl food


Owl *WIFE*


----------



## Koi (Dec 3, 2010)

Owlowlwifefoxyknowledgeseeker orgy?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 3, 2010)

Koi said:


> Owlowlwifefoxyknowledgeseeker orgy?


God demn furries in mah Avatar?! <_<


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> She is not molded after a real person,* nor does a real person portray her*, apart from her voice; she exists only as images drawn on paper or digital information stored on a computer.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Summer Bishil says, "Back up, bitch."


----------



## Gunners (Dec 4, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:
			
		

> What probably happens between DDJ and his friends.
> 
> "Hey assface, you want to do something tonight."
> 
> "Under normal circumstances I would agree to the possibly of scheduling an activity. Though I take offense to the decision you have made to insult me. I believe you could have asked such a question with out doing so and adding such is a sign of immaturity on your part. I do not believe my face has any qualities that would cause you to draw a comparison between the two. I also believe that, through the years I have contributed enough to this friendship as to not be subject to such harsh and unnecessary criticism.





			
				DemonDragonJ said:
			
		

> No, I am a human, and proud to be one; why do you ask such a question? Could a robot speak in such an intellectual manner? Could a robot have a favorite character in this series? Could a robot become annoyed by the responses that the other users have given to my posts? The answer to all three questions is no, because robots are not yet sufficiently advanced to have intelligence comparable to that of humans.


The posts occurring so close to one another makes it 10x funnier.


----------



## The Potential (Dec 4, 2010)

Gunners said:


> The posts occurring so close to one another makes it 10x funnier.



20x! It just proved his point so well.


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> God demn furries in mah Avatar?! <_<



Next thing you know well see katara with a tail


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 4, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The answer to all three questions is no, because robots are not yet sufficiently advanced to have intelligence comparable to that of humans


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 4, 2010)

Jove said:


> ​



By some strange coincidence, I had "human after all" (a song by Daft Punk) playing in my other tab while browsing when I opened this thread. 

That was somewhat surreal.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 4, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> By some strange coincidence, I had "human after all" (a song by Daft Punk) playing in my other tab while browsing when I opened this thread.
> 
> That was somewhat surreal.




GOOD. I like seeing excellent taste in my peoples.


I wonder if Zuko got to meet Chong, Lily and Moku. I wonder if they are the royal band now.


----------



## Koi (Dec 4, 2010)

Zuko probably thought they were really cool but didn't wanna sound like a lewzer so he'd never actually admit it out loud.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 4, 2010)

That actually makes me think, Koi...


I'm more pleased than ever that we never got an addendum miniseries, a coda showing the Gaang grown up. Because right now I'm thinking about whether Zuko became a cool leader, whether he just became a goofy one... and now I'm so _very_ excited for that first episode of Korra, where we might get a quick rundown of what happened after the Comet.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 4, 2010)

Taking pointers from Bumi and Kuei


----------



## Koi (Dec 4, 2010)

I feel like Zuko was probably kind of goofy and insecure at first, but with proper guidance from Iroh and the Order, he probably came into himself over time.


----------



## Burke (Dec 5, 2010)

Jove said:


> GOOD. I like seeing excellent taste in my peoples.
> 
> 
> I wonder if Zuko got to meet Chong, Lily and Moku. I wonder if they are the royal band now.



Dude, I breath Daft Punk!
Ive watched Interstella 5555 like 20 times


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 5, 2010)

I would like to have seen a "distant finale" at the end of the final episode, similar to what was done at the end of _Digimon Adventure 02,_ but perhaps only three to five years into the future, so that we could see what had happened to the world in that time, how it had recovered from the war, and also to see the main characters older and what they were doing several years later. I am certain that the writers of this series would be able to execute such a scene very well.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 5, 2010)

> I would like to have seen a "distant finale" at the end of the final episode, similar to what was done at the end of Digimon Adventure 02



This should never ever ever be made as a suggestion.

It's like saying that a show would be better if centred around a romance like Twilight. Whether that would improve the show or not, you don't name fucking Twilight as your example.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm quite satisfied that they left that up to us. And I hope they give us an _adequate_ picture in Korra, but leave plenty for us to ponder.


----------



## The Potential (Dec 5, 2010)

I guess if we're left to ponder, this thread will reach 40K Post.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 5, 2010)

This thread will reach 40k anyway, eventually. I'm expecting at least 20 immediate pages an episode.


----------



## The Potential (Dec 5, 2010)

Oh how I can't wait till next year. I wonder how many post this thread will have by the time Korra airs.

I also wonder will there ever be another series like ATLA. I have been on this planet for 20 years, and no other show has cought my eye like Avatar did.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 5, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> I also wonder will there ever be another series like ATLA. I have been on this planet for 20 years, and no other show has caught my eye like Avatar did.



I'll agree with that. Now does that say something about how good Avatar is or how subpar American animated series are? The show is always mentioned in the same breath as Batman:TAS and Gargoyles. Those series are about 3 years apart and ATLA came 10 years after Gargoyles. 

What were we watching all that time? What have we been watching after Avatar ended? There aren't many series that had such a cross-generational appeal as ATLA either. What exactly makes a "kiddy" show appeal to people ranging from the ages of 6-60?

Anyway, think of all that while you watch Mike Dimartino draw Aang as if he came out of a Miyazaki film.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK7tw2vo19U[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Burke (Dec 5, 2010)

Jove said:


> I'm quite satisfied that they left that up to us. And I hope they give us an _adequate_ picture in Korra, but leave plenty for us to ponder.



I do to, but i really did like Digimons future finale



Jove said:


> This thread will reach 40k anyway, eventually. I'm expecting at least 20 immediate pages an episode.



That reminds me, make sure you have The Post ready to go


----------



## Wan (Dec 7, 2010)

I wonder if Zhao and Jet are playing Pai Sho in the Spirit World.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 7, 2010)

I realised not to long ago that Admiral Zhao was was voiced by Jason Isaacs. An underrated character in my honest opinion ''This will truly be one for the history books general Iroh''- before talking about wiping out the water tribe civilisation.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 7, 2010)

Sometimes History truly does take place on a platform. suck on _that_ Patrick Joyce. 


I wouldn't call Zhao underrated, though. Certainly not within the fandom.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 7, 2010)

Chops to rival the whole Victorian-era he did have.  All he needed was a bowler hat and a corn pipe and we'd be in business.


----------



## Burke (Dec 7, 2010)

Dude, :datsideburns


----------



## ElementX (Dec 7, 2010)

Well he did destroy the moon. I guess that's an accomplishment. Good job Zhao 

LOL Zhao you loser.

"I don't know why, but I thought you'd be _better_ than Zuko."


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 7, 2010)

And thanks to his many failures, we have the ZhaoFace:


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 7, 2010)

Jove, you should Avatar up the season, get an avy with REAL turtle doves. Real Avatar Turtle Doves


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 7, 2010)

But I like our Turtle Doves. 

I want 22 of them this Christmas season.


----------



## Wan (Dec 7, 2010)

(by Booter-Freak)


----------



## Koi (Dec 7, 2010)

HAHA.  That totally works.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 8, 2010)

Never noticed how Simian-like Zhao's sideburns seem to be.


----------



## Burke (Dec 8, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> And thanks to his many failures, we have the ZhaoFace:



$20,000 dollars worth of happiness to whoever can photoshop that frown into a smile


----------



## Quaero (Dec 8, 2010)

I did what I could.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 8, 2010)

I could do better


----------



## Shade (Dec 8, 2010)

The number of Zhao on this page pleases me and is fitting for the month.

Link removed


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 8, 2010)

One simply does not flip Zhao's mouth.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 8, 2010)




----------



## Koi (Dec 8, 2010)

For you, Zhao~


----------



## Wan (Dec 9, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> ​



This thread is what win is made of.  Thanks to it, I have discovered Daft Punk.


----------



## ElementX (Dec 9, 2010)

I always wanted to see a scene where Azula and Zhao interacted. Something tells me he hated her more than Zuko.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 9, 2010)

ElementX said:


> I always wanted to see a scene where Azula and Zhao interacted. Something tells me he hated her more than Zuko.



I would not be surprised it he did; after all, she was everything that he wished to be, but was not: a talented firebender, a skilled and successful tactician, and in good standing with the Fire Lord. I am certain that if they ever interacted, Zhao would treat Azula with grudging respect, obeying her only because of her position and power.

I also noticed that Avatar Kuruk, Roku's Waterbending Teacher, and Hakoda are very similar in appearance. Is it possible that they are related? After all, other avatars have been connected to certain other characters, such as Aang and Katara's son, Tenzin, teaching Korra the art of airbending and Roku being Zuko's ancestor.

On that subject, how was it not well-known that Ursa was a descendant of Roku? Roku was famous in the Fire Nation for being both the Avatar and a friend of Fire Lord Sozin, and many people attended his wedding to Ta Min, so I find it odd that no one knew of his connection to Ursa and her children. One logical explanation would be that Ta Min gave birth in secret and never publicly announced that she had children, plus, she and Roku lived on a secluded island, so it actually is not at all implausible that no one knew of Ursa's connection to Roku and Ta Min.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 9, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I would not be surprised it he did; after all, she was everything that he wished to be, but was not: a talented firebender, a skilled and successful tactician, and in good standing with the Fire Lord. I am certain that if they ever interacted, Zhao would treat Azula with grudging respect, obeying her only because of her position and power.
> 
> I also noticed that Avatar Kuruk, Roku's Waterbending Teacher, and Hakoda are very similar in appearance. Is it possible that they are related? After all, other avatars have been connected to certain other characters, such as Aang and Katara's son, Tenzin, teaching Korra the art of airbending and Roku being Zuko's ancestor.
> 
> On that subject, how was it not well-known that Ursa was a descendant of Roku? Roku was famous in the Fire Nation for being both the Avatar and a friend of Fire Lord Sozin, and many people attended his wedding to Ta Min, so I find it odd that no one knew of his connection to Ursa and her children. One logical explanation would be that Ta Min gave birth in secret and never publicly announced that she had children, plus, she and Roku lived on a secluded island, so it actually is not at all implausible that no one knew of Ursa's connection to Roku and Ta Min.


It's possibly misinformation on behalf of the Fire Nation over a century, or could simply be a loss of information.


----------



## Burke (Dec 9, 2010)

Without reading, are we discussing the possibilities of Zhao ending up in the water tribe? :ho


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 9, 2010)

The Storm suggested to me that Zhao and Azula were probably quite agreeable with one another.

No, I am not referring to fucking, although I have seen some suggest a future marriage between the two.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 10, 2010)

Every fanfiction I read has Mai hating Zhao

Like
where did that even come from that everyone thinks that?


----------



## Eki (Dec 10, 2010)

she is too happy to be hatin


----------



## Koi (Dec 10, 2010)

Four calling reptile birds,
three arctic hens
two turtleducks,
and a possum chicken in a purple berry tree~


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I also noticed that Avatar Kuruk, Roku's Waterbending Teacher, and Hakoda are very similar in appearance.



So, what you're saying is, all Watertribesman look the same to you.

_Racist._


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 10, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> So, what you're saying is, all Watertribesman look the same to you.
> 
> _Racist._


I was waiting for someone to say it <.<


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 10, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Every fanfiction I read has Mai hating Zhao
> 
> Like
> where did that even come from that everyone thinks that?



I think they made that up because they are overdoing her personality...?


----------



## Koi (Dec 10, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> So, what you're saying is, all Watertribesman look the same to you.
> 
> _Racist._



Whatever, I'd hit _all of them._


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 10, 2010)

Koi said:


> Whatever, I'd hit _all of them._


Once you go blubber, your legs will be rubber.


----------



## ElementX (Dec 10, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Without reading, are we discussing the possibilities of Zhao ending up in the water tribe? :ho



Are you talking about that comic that claimed Zhao actually survived but lost his memory and was accepted into the water tribe? 

 silly comics pretending to be canon.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 10, 2010)

ElementX said:


> Are you talking about that comic that claimed Zhao actually survived but lost his memory and was accepted into the water tribe?
> 
> silly comics pretending to be canon.



The artist () actually got hired on as a storyboard artist halfway through season two because of that comic. She's also the one that was doing those Avatar comics for the Nick magazine before it got canceled and the comics were canned.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 10, 2010)

She also came up with the concept of Aang being found years later by the Water Tribe siblings. So you have a mid 30's Katara, Sokka helping out 12 year old Aang while Zuko deals with a senior past-his-prime Zhao.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 10, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> She also came up with the concept of Aang being found years later by the Water Tribe siblings. So you have a mid 30's Katara, Sokka helping out 12 year old Aang while Zuko deals with a senior past-his-prime Zhao.




She never did finish that, did she?


----------



## Noah (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I hope that that explanation resolves this issue.



It certainly does not. If anything, it only worsens your stance and throws a 467 layers of denial on it.

Also: Water Tribe is fun stuff. Better than pretty much every other narrative-based Avatar fanstuffs. If nothing else, it's not the worst there is. We all know which one wins that award.


----------



## Piekage (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That is utterly false, Stab-O-Tron; how did you infer such an emotion from my statement, which I believe was perfectly rational and utterly innocuous?
> 
> I was _not_ saying that all members of the Water Tribes look similar to each other; only _*those particular three.*_ And I believe that they _are_ similar, as I shall demonstrate.
> *Spoiler*: _Kuruk_
> ...



I'm pretty sure Stab was joking.

Water Tribe was pretty awesome.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 10, 2010)

Noah said:


> It certainly does not. If anything, it only worsens your stance and throws a 467 layers of denial on it.



How does it do that?



Piekage said:


> I'm pretty sure Stab was joking.
> 
> Water Tribe was pretty awesome.



Why would he joke about such a serious topic as that, and how could I possibly know that he was joking? I thought that he was being serious, which is why I wrote that detailed post in response to his post.

And I also find the Water Tribes to be awesome, but my favorite faction in this series is the Fire Nation.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 10, 2010)

Geez, way to kill the fun yet again, DDJ, you soulless blob <_<


----------



## Noah (Dec 10, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Geez, way to kill the fun yet again, DDJ, you soulless blob <_<



He can't be soulless! Cuz then he'd be a robot! And, as he's taught us all, we don't have the AI for robots yet!

New idea. I'm no longer going to call him Literal Jim. From now on it's Kaptain Killjoy. Or maybe Mr FunDestroyer. Or the SighMaster. Haven't decided yet.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 10, 2010)

Noah said:


> He can't be soulless! Cuz then he'd be a robot! And, as he's taught us all, we don't have the AI for robots yet!


My robot ancestry doth protest. See he's racist again the Water Tribes and automatons.





> New idea. I'm no longer going to call him Literal Jim. From now on it's  Kaptain Killjoy. Or maybe Mr FunDestroyer. Or the SighMaster. Haven't  decided yet.



So, he's M. Night?


----------



## Noah (Dec 10, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> My robot ancestry doth protest. See he's racist again the Water Tribes and automatons.
> 
> So, he's M. Night?



M.Night has, or at least had, charisma


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why would he joke about such a serious topic as that



Cause that's what funny people do. We make jokes. Though I do believe that I am the first person to ever make a joke pertaining to race. 



DemonDragonJ said:


> and how could I possibly know that he was joking?



Everyone else seemed to get it. Perhaps you should contact your manufacturer and see if maybe they have an update available for your humor protocol software. Though make sure to check your serial number first. It differs with each model. 



DemonDragonJ said:


> I thought that he was being serious, which is why I wrote that detailed post in response to his post.



On the off chance that you're not a robot, I have something to ask. When you were growing up as a child, did you're parents savagely beat you every time you laughed or smiled? Or perhaps you went through some other kind of humor related trauma. Maybe a comedian killed your parents in front of you one night as your family left the comedy club and you've spent the intervening years traveling the world training your mind and body to not get jokes?

Or, as I'm beginning to suspect, you're just one hell of a troll and you've been playing with us this entire time. I actually hope this is the case, because I don't want to believe that someone could be this obtuse on purpose.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 10, 2010)




----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 10, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Cause that's what funny people do. We make jokes. Though I do believe that I am the first person to ever make a joke pertaining to race.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I feel sorry for DDJ, being a self-hating robot...

Also, the savage beatings could explain it's weird preference for i*c*st.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 10, 2010)

Jove, why is it that you are quoting my responses with images of very diabolical-looking characters? Are you implying something?

And why is nearly every user in this thread treating me in such a manner? What did I ever do to any of you to deserve this treatment? This is exactly the type of treatment that I received at the _Dicefreaks_ online community, after several years of everyone being nice to me, before I was banned from it (that is correct: _they_ banned _me;_ I did not resign from that community, for I was giving my best effort to get along with the other users there). Do any of you realize that this behavior may be considered by some people to be harassment and bullying? Are we not mature people on this forum, and not children, who do not need to throw juvenile insults and taunts at each other to have a good time?

And no one has answered my question, yet: do you believe that Kuruk, Roku's Waterbending Teacher, and Hakoda are related somehow, or is it simply a coincidence that they are so similar in appearance?


----------



## Gunners (Dec 10, 2010)

> And no one has answered my question, yet: do you believe that Kuruk, Roku's Waterbending Teacher, and Hakoda are related somehow, or is it simply a coincidence that they are so similar in appearance?


There's a possibility he is related to Kuruk though the blood would have thinned to the point of being irrelevant. If you look at the water tribe they're not exactly large and Kuruk was born 400 before the the present time. 

If he had a child then I'd say it was likely, but he may have lived the rest of his life celibate due to his wife to be getting killed.


----------



## Noah (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> This is exactly the type of treatment that I received at the _Dicefreaks_ online community, after several years of everyone being nice to me, before I was banned from it (that is correct: _they_ banned _me;_ I did not resign from that community, for I was giving my best effort to get along with the other users there). Do any of you realize that this behavior may be considered by some people to be harassment and bullying?



Who's the common denominator, sweetie?  



> And no one has answered my question, yet: do you believe that Kuruk, Roku's Waterbending Teacher, and Hakoda are related somehow, or is it simply a coincidence that they are so similar in appearance?



Sure. Hakoda and Sokka could be related to Kuruk in the same way that I'm (allegedly)related to Hernan Cortes; so distantly it doesn't matter.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 10, 2010)

Gunners said:


> There's a possibility he is related to Kuruk though the blood would have thinned to the point of being irrelevant. If you look at the water tribe they're not exactly large and Kuruk was born 400 before the the present time.
> 
> If he had a child then I'd say it was likely, but he may have lived the rest of his life celibate due to his wife to be getting killed.



Yes, that is what I myself believed, but I wished to see if anyone else believed that.

Now _that_ is the type of response that I was seeking: I hope that everyone else has observed this exchange here, one that was very swift, efficient, and had no time wasted on unnecessary insults.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> On the off chance that you're not a robot, I have something to ask. When you were growing up as a child, did you're parents savagely beat you every time you laughed or smiled? Or perhaps you went through some other kind of humor related trauma. Maybe a comedian killed your parents in front of you one night as your family left the comedy club and you've spent the intervening years traveling the world training your mind and body to not get jokes?



My childhood was very happy, my parents are still alive today, and I get along with them very well, Stab-O-Tron, although that is none of your business. Are you referencing Batman's origin story in your post? As awesome as it would be for my life to be similar to his, I unfortunately never had any such experience; my life has been very mundane and ordinary, thus far.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Or, as I'm beginning to suspect, you're just one hell of a troll and you've been playing with us this entire time. I actually hope this is the case, because I don't want to believe that someone could be this obtuse on purpose.



I am not obtuse, I simply have difficulty understanding some forms of humor, sarcasm, or informal language. That has been a significant problem of mine for a significant part of my life, and I would like to believe that it has greatly decreased in recent years, yet the behavior of the other users here has led to question that belief.

If anyone here does not like my manner of speech or esoteric sense of humor, I am sorry, but you must tolerate them. I tolerate your excessive informal language and crude humor without asking you to alter them, so I shall ask that you give me that same courtesy.



Noah said:


> Sure. Hakoda and Sokka could be related to Kuruk in the same way that I'm (allegedly)related to Hernan Cortes; so distantly it doesn't matter.



Yes, I know that any relation between them would be too distant to be relevant, as each of them lived at least a century apart from the other two, but I still wish to bring up that subject for discussion, to learn what the other users here had ti say about it.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 10, 2010)

I swear to god DDJ, when the brain tumors start popping up I'm sending you the bill.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Jove, why is it that you are quoting my responses with images of very diabolical-looking characters? Are you implying something?
> 
> *And why is nearly every user in this thread treating me in such a manner? What did I ever do to any of you to deserve this treatment?Dicefreaks* *This is exactly the type of treatment that I received at the  online community*, after several years of everyone being nice to me, before I was banned from it (that is correct: _they_ banned _me;_ I did not resign from that community, for I was giving my best effort to get along with the other users there). Do any of you realize that this behavior may be considered by some people to be harassment and bullying? Are we not mature people on this forum, and not children, who do not need to throw juvenile insults and taunts at each other to have a good time?
> 
> And no one has answered my question, yet: do you believe that Kuruk, Roku's Waterbending Teacher, and Hakoda are related somehow, or is it simply a coincidence that they are so similar in appearance?


Really? That doesn't tell you about _anything_ about how you come off as?

You're taking this too far buddy. If anything, you're _asking_ for it. This austere you have can't possibly be real, can it? And someone who seems to grasp the basics of humor, as previously proven, it's odd that you've forgotten. 





> *Do any of you realize that this behavior may be considered by some  people to be harassment and bullying? Are we not mature people on this  forum, and not children, who do not need to throw juvenile insults and  taunts at each other to have a good time?*


Dear tap-dancing Avatar Christ 

You are...A character, that's for sure 

If it wasn't the blind dissection of the series, it's your reaction to us abnormal cartoon watching mutants


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 10, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> I swear to god DDJ, when the brain tumors start popping up I'm sending you the bill.



 ...


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 10, 2010)

Is that... a non-serious response from DDJ?



I didn't think I would live to see the day...


----------



## Mider T (Dec 10, 2010)

He's made jokes before


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> ...


Now this is starting to feel like some kind of uncanny valley...

It's like Batman laughing. Or the Cabbage Merchant selling LETTUCE.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I* tolerate your excessive informal language* and crude humor without asking you to alter them..



I'm just going to respond to this part right here. I won't even bring up how terribly condescending you sound (even though I just did), I just want to try to help you understand why people find you a little odd. 

First off, *Formal* _does not mean_ *correct*. Insisting on using formal language in an informal setting (such as this) and wondering why we keep giving you shit about it would be like showing up to play basketball with your friends wearing a suit and tie and wondering why they keep giving you funny looks. 

Do you understand?

I'll say it again. *Formal* _does not equal_ *correct*.

There's a time and place for formal. There's a time and place to be casual. And in the exact same manner that dressing up in a suit and tie to go hang out with some friends just to play video games would be considered improper and odd behavior. So is it also considered odd and improper to insist on using formal language in such a casual and informal setting as an internet forum dedicated to a cartoon.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 10, 2010)

I hate the word tolerate, it's like you're begrudgingly trying to put up with something.

Either it's a poor choice of words, or you just called us all idiots in a way you don't expect us to decipher right away.


----------



## Burke (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Jove, why is it that you are quoting my responses with images of very diabolical-looking characters? Are you implying something?



He is associating the proper words you use, and the way that you act here with that of some sort of villain who thinks highly of themselves, and therefore speaks in such a way.

/words

Also, a question, have you ever called anyone a fool?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 10, 2010)

N??ps said:


> He is associating the proper words you use, and the way that you act here with that of some sort of villain who thinks highly of themselves, and therefore speaks in such a way.
> 
> /words
> 
> *Also, a question, have you ever called anyone a fool?*



A few pages back in fact.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Pathetic fools! Do you really believe that I will allow your childish taunting to upset me? I am not so weak-willed as to be goaded by such words!
> 
> 
> How was that? Was that sufficient to convince that I am a human (not that I needed to prove it)?


----------



## Stalin (Dec 10, 2010)

I think Avatar the Last Airbender is a pretty cool guy. eh fights against them firebenders and doesn't afraid of anything.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 10, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:
			
		

> do you believe that Kuruk, Roku's Waterbending Teacher, and Hakoda are related somehow, or is it simply a coincidence that they are so similar in appearance?


As someone else mentioned, neither Water Tribe is teeming with people, so there is a chance the three are related, but as was also mentioned, the time difference probably waters down the relevance.
And the similarities may simply have to do with the hair and beard styles shaping their faces.

*Spoiler*: __ 





> This is exactly the type of treatment that I received at the Dicefreaks online community, after several years of everyone being nice to me, before I was banned from it (that is correct: they banned me; I did not resign from that community, for I was giving my best effort to get along with the other users there). Do any of you realize that this behavior may be considered by some people to be harassment and bullying? Are we not mature people on this forum, and not children, who do not need to throw juvenile insults and taunts at each other to have a good time?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 10, 2010)

And for the record, I don't see much resemblance at all between those Water Tribe characters.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 10, 2010)

They all look like cartoon characters to me.


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## Ms. Jove (Dec 10, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> They all look like cartoon characters to me.








I wonder if The Flamios played Zuko's coronation afterparty.


----------



## ElementX (Dec 10, 2010)

Wow, I do see the similarity now. Never noticed it before. Although it is probably due to the hairstyle.


----------



## Jagon Fox (Dec 10, 2010)

I hear there might be an avatar spin-off called the legend of korra about the next avatar.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 10, 2010)

There's no "Might" about it. It's already in production.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 10, 2010)

Jagon Fox said:


> I hear there might be an avatar spin-off called the legend of korra about the next avatar.



That's insane! Where did you hear or read something crazy like that?


----------



## Burke (Dec 11, 2010)

Jove i remind you once more, and one last time, prepare...

THE POST

(dramatic music)



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> A few pages back in fact.



Ahahah i knew it, see what im talking about, just like some sort of villain.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 11, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I'm just going to respond to this part right here. I won't even bring up how terribly condescending you sound (even though I just did), I just want to try to help you understand why people find you a little odd.
> 
> First off, *Formal* _does not mean_ *correct*. Insisting on using formal language in an informal setting (such as this) and wondering why we keep giving you shit about it would be like showing up to play basketball with your friends wearing a suit and tie and wondering why they keep giving you funny looks.
> 
> ...



That is simply how I speak; I shall not alter the manner in which I speak for any person or for any reason, so how can I retain my unique speech pattern while making it seem less condescending? I certainly do not want the other users here to believe that I am insulting them in any manner, because I have no intention of doing so and wish to get along well with all of them.

To change topic, how do people identify the Avatar? Does the Avatar's _ki_ feel different from that of other people, or is it guesswork?

And why did Sozin eliminate the Air Nomads in the hope of eliminating the Avatar? I believe that it would have been a far more intelligent and wiser strategy to approach the nomads in a friendly manner, establish a positive relationship with them, and then abduct the infant Avatar when they least expect it. Sozin could then return to the Fire Nation, where he would be nearly untouchable by his enemies, and then raise the Avatar as his own offspring, gradually instilling his beliefs and worldview into the child. Why did he not do that? Was he too arrogant and aggressive to devise and employ such a subtle strategy?


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> To change topic, how do people identify the Avatar? Does the Avatar's _ki_ feel different from that of other people, or is it guesswork?




You mean, how is he picked? Well I certainly don't believe that anyone can feel people's Ki on the show. I imagine it's much easier for the Air Nomads, being such a small population and all. With such a lesser concentration of people, the Senior monks simply have to check the records for the infants born within the week that the previous Avatar died. After a certain age the child would go through the test and that would be that. Finding the Avatar within the Fire Nation or Earth Kingdom might take years though.

Perhaps the child does something extraordinary with her native element at such a young age which is enough to contact a traveling party of Monks/Sages to at least come and see him/her. The window of time is at least 16 years to find the next Avatar.


----------



## Wan (Dec 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> To change topic, how do people identify the Avatar? Does the Avatar's _ki_ feel different from that of other people, or is it guesswork?



The same way the Dalai Lama is "found".  When the current Avatar dies, newborns are given four Avatar relics -- toys that all Avatars enjoyed playing with. If the child consistently plays with those four toys above others, he/she is the Avatar.  This is explained in the season 1 ep "The Storm".


----------



## Koi (Dec 11, 2010)

At least it's not a generally blind search like the Dalai Lama, though.  They'll know the general vicinity of where to look due to the element cycle, which is a plus.  I do wonder if there is additional divination used to help find the next Avatar, though.  I remember reading somewhere that the previous Dalai Lama's body had its head turn in a certain direction or something, which tipped them off to where to look, but that's still pretty general.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 11, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> The same way the Dalai Lama is "found".  When the current Avatar dies, newborns are given four Avatar relics -- toys that all Avatars enjoyed playing with. If the child consistently plays with those four toys above others, he/she is the Avatar.  This is explained in the season 1 ep "The Storm".



Even that method cannot be perfect, Mordin. What if the new Avatar does not like the toys that the previous Avatar did, or what if, by coincidence, a child who is not the Avatar prefers the toys that would normally be preferred by the Avatar? That method seems simply far too unreliable to me.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 11, 2010)

Superstarseven said:


> You mean, how is he picked? *Well I certainly don't believe that anyone can feel people's Ki on the show*. I imagine it's much easier for the Air Nomads, being such a small population and all. With such a lesser concentration of people, the Senior monks simply have to check the records for the infants born within the week that the previous Avatar died. After a certain age the child would go through the test and that would be that. Finding the Avatar within the Fire Nation or Earth Kingdom might take years though.
> 
> Perhaps the child does something extraordinary with her native element at such a young age which is enough to contact a traveling party of Monks/Sages to at least come and see him/her. The window of time is at least 16 years to find the next Avatar.


What do you call what Aang and Huu and Guru Pathik does?

Also DDJ, they use the Chinese pronunciation of the word, so it is _Chi_, not ki.


DemonDragonJ said:


> Even that method cannot be perfect, Mordin. What if the new Avatar does not like the toys that the previous Avatar did, or what if, by coincidence, a child who is not the Avatar prefers the toys that would normally be preferred by the Avatar? That method seems simply far too unreliable to me.


Avatar Christ, really? Are you really trying to apply "real world logic" to a method that has worked in the mythos, as yet known, for centuries? And just because doubt can be cast on something, doesn't make it unrealistic for it not to be subverted. You seem to think doubt=real. Which is wrong.

And several other things, one, it's a _cartoon_ in a universe that prescribes to _their own rules_.

Secondly, realism=/=quality


----------



## Burke (Dec 11, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What do you call what Aang and Huu and Guru Pathik does?
> 
> Also DDJ, they use the Chinese pronunciation of the word, so it is _Chi_, not ki.
> 
> Avatar Christ, really? Are you really trying to apply "real world logic" to a method that has worked in the mythos, as yet known, for centuries? And just because doubt can be cast on something, doesn't make it unrealistic for it not to be subverted. You seem to think doubt=real. Which is wrong.



Next your gunna say chakra is Kakra

... kakra...
Sounds like some sort of phallic godzilla monster

Rook out! Ish Kakuraaa!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 11, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Next your gunna say chakra is Kakra
> 
> ... kakra...
> Sounds like some sort of phallic godzilla monster
> ...


They say it verbatim in the show, straight from the mouths of many characters


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 11, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Also DDJ, they use the Chinese pronunciation of the word, so it is _Chi_, not ki.



Yes, I know that, but I prefer to use the Japanese pronunciation, because I am more familiar with that term, that term seems to be better-known in the United States, at least from what I have seen, and using two different words for the same thing is simply too unusual for me.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Avatar Christ, really? Are you really trying to apply "real world logic" to a method that has worked in the mythos, as yet known, for centuries? And just because doubt can be cast on something, doesn't make it unrealistic for it not to be subverted. You seem to think doubt=real. Which is wrong.



Yes, you have a good point, there, but I simply wished to point out how nothing can be flawless, and express my dislike at such an arbitrary method being used for something as important as identifying the Avatar.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 11, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What do you call what Aang and Huu and Guru Pathik does?
> 
> Also DDJ, they use the Chinese pronunciation of the word, so it is _Chi_, not ki.




Actually, I'm not sure how to explain how Guru Pathik did it... some sort of enlightenment?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 11, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Actually, I'm not sure how to explain how Guru Pathik did it... some sort of enlightenment?



I do not know everything about this subject, but I would not be surprised if the concept of "enlightenment" was related to the concept of _chi/ki._


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Yes, I know that, but I prefer to use the Japanese pronunciation, because I am more familiar with that term, that term seems to be better-known in the United States, at least from what I have seen, and using two different words for the same thing is simply too unusual for me.*


...

I don't even know where to start. I will say one word. Egregious.


> Yes, you have a good point, there, but I simply wished to point out how  nothing can be flawless, and express my dislike at such an arbitrary  method being used for something as important as identifying the  Avatar.


Well, I'm sure the faiths from which the practice was derived from would appreciate it if you didn't call their sacred rites "arbitrary" and trivialize them because it doesn't mesh with your beliefs.

But, hey, what do I know? I mean, it's not as if I'm Buddhist, right? *sarcasm*


Two Turtle Joves said:


> Actually, I'm not sure how to explain how Guru Pathik did it... some sort of enlightenment?


Probably a far more advanced way than Huu, there's a reason why Huu was meditating under that tree, he was trying to attain the same level of enlightenment as Guru Pathik.

It probably has something to do with the impact each individual has on each other's life, like a network. People that are significant, or known to that person, or soon to be known are probably easier to discern than a stranger on the other side of the world. Possibly in Guru Pathik's instance, he attained the capacity to know EVERYONE.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 11, 2010)

And, with apologies to DDJ, the Avatar's ability to do this trumps everyone else in the World.

I wonder if Pathik is still alive in Korra. I think it's a very legitimate possibility, even if they don't mention it.


----------



## Shade (Dec 11, 2010)

After this has blown over and the Korra train really gets rolling, this portion of the thread shall be remembered as The DDJ Era.


----------



## Kno7 (Dec 11, 2010)

The era in which I did not post once due to the sheer awkwardness of the discussion.

Any news on Korra?


----------



## Gunners (Dec 11, 2010)

> To change topic, how do people identify the Avatar? Does the Avatar's ki feel different from that of other people, or is it guesswork?


I don't know if the same applies for different nations, but at birth they give the Avatar toys to play with I think they represent the elements, anyway they pick the same every time. 



> And why did Sozin eliminate the Air Nomads in the hope of eliminating the Avatar? I believe that it would have been a far more intelligent and wiser strategy to approach the nomads in a friendly manner, establish a positive relationship with them, and then abduct the infant Avatar when they least expect it. Sozin could then return to the Fire Nation, where he would be nearly untouchable by his enemies, and then raise the Avatar as his own offspring, gradually instilling his beliefs and worldview into the child. Why did he not do that? Was he too arrogant and aggressive to devise and employ such a subtle strategy?


You have to remember that the Air Normad's told Aang he was the Avatar early because of Sozin he was already conquering nations and starting wars so they would never trust him. In the event that they did trust Sozin they wouldn't threat over war meaning the fact that Aang was the Avatar would be a secret until he is 16.


----------



## Shade (Dec 11, 2010)

Gah, I emailed Nick Canada asking them whether they're gonna air Korra next fall and got an automated response telling me that they can't reply to my email due to the sheer amount they receive, but assured me that they read _all _their emails.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 11, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *What if the new Avatar does not like the toys that the previous Avatar did*, or what if, by coincidence, a child who is not the Avatar prefers the toys that would normally be preferred by the Avatar?


The new Avatar will always like them because those topys will stand out to him/her and seem comfortable.


DemonDragonJ said:


> using two different words for the same thing is simply too unusual for me.


 Have you seen the English language or even any language for that matter? They all have words that overlap.


> Yes, you have a good point, there, but I simply wished to point out how nothing can be flawless, and express my dislike at such an arbitrary method being used for something as important as identifying the Avatar.


How is it an arbitrary method?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 11, 2010)

Shade said:


> Gah, I emailed Nick Canada asking them whether they're gonna air Korra next fall and got an automated response telling me that they can't reply to my email due to the sheer amount they receive, but assured me that they read _all _their emails.





It history truly does set precedent, you bastards will probably get the show before we do.


----------



## Koi (Dec 11, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> And, with apologies to DDJ, the Avatar's ability to do this trumps everyone else in the World.
> 
> I wonder if Pathik is still alive in Korra. I think it's a very legitimate possibility, even if they don't mention it.



Maybe he self-preserved with all that onion-banana juice.


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 11, 2010)

Koi said:


> Maybe he self-preserved with all that onion-banana juice.



 that would likely do it, right?


----------



## blakstealth (Dec 11, 2010)

Just finished season 3 on DVD.

Oh lawd oh lawd. Perfection.


----------



## Kno7 (Dec 11, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> It history truly does set precedent, you bastards will probably get the show before we do.



Did the show really air earlier in Canada?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 11, 2010)

301 aired the same day as the US, but a few hours earlier.

The season premiere.

In another country.

Earlier.


Then the mayhem of 312 airing in Canada 14 December 2007 and 313 airing in Canada 4 January 2008. Neither episode would be aired in the US until July 2008. (DVD released in May 2008, and that's a whole other fiasco.)


And add to that UK Nick aired:

306 on 24 October 2007 (26 October in the US)
307 on 25 October 2007 (2 November in the US)
308 on 25 October 2007 (9 November in the US)
309 on 26 October 2007 (16 November in the US)

And the Nederland's Nick airing: 

310 on 23 November 2007 (30 November in the US)
311 on 26 November 2007 (30 November in the US)



Book 3 was a gigantic clusterfuck, a totally disgraceful performance by Nickelodeon.


----------



## Proxy (Dec 11, 2010)

My cabbages


----------



## Burke (Dec 11, 2010)

Proxy said:


> My cabbages



My cabbages?


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 11, 2010)

Let me just keeping this wagon train a movin'.


----------



## Kno7 (Dec 11, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> 301 aired the same day as the US, but a few hours earlier.
> 
> The season premiere.
> 
> ...



Wow, I had no idea.  I didn't have Nickelodeon's channel at the time. As a matter of fact I still don't, but I might get it...just in case Nick makes a shitty move like that again


----------



## Koi (Dec 11, 2010)

Lol I caught the reference to a 'snailsloth' during SCpt1.  THAT IS TRAGIC.  A snailsloth.  Could you imagine?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 11, 2010)

Koi said:


> Lol I caught the reference to a 'snailsloth' during SCpt1.  THAT IS TRAGIC.  A snailsloth.  Could you imagine?


I bet a lot of head trauma that those Snailsloths would drop out of trees when spooked.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 12, 2010)

Shade said:


> After this has blown over and the Korra train really gets rolling, this portion of the thread shall be remembered as The DDJ Era.



Should I take that comment as a compliment, or as an insult?



Shaidar Haran said:


> How is it an arbitrary method?



First, I need to define the word "arbitrary," and this link  provides several definitions of it.

Second, I believe that the method is arbitrary because it is based off the interpretation of the monks, rather than logical, verifiable evidence. The monks believe that the child who prefers those specific toys is the Avatar, when I pointed out that there are at least two ways in which that method can be uncertain. If I lived in the _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ universe, I would seek to employ a more rational and scientific method for identifying the Avatar, although what that method would be, I am not certain at this moment. I shall respond later when I have determined such a method.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Should I take that comment as a compliment, or as an insult?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree, find a rational, scientific method, TO FIND A MAGICAL REINCARNATING CHRIST FIGURE AMONGST CHILDREN.

Dude, you just don't effing get it, it _IS_ a logical, verifiable method in _their_ universe, how many times are we gonna have to scream shrilly against your thick skull?

YOUR RULES=/=AVATAR RULES

It is metaphysics, why the fuck would you try to apply the science of the physical world to a kid who can talk to dead people that he or she once was? Are you gonna test their piss?

"Oh, please piss in this cup, and shit in this pan, we need to test your filthy leavings to determine that you have the formless spirits of hundreds of generations of past physical gods that has kept our world together for centuries. I mean, it's not like we can test your very soul for what is definitely a strong, influential subconscious presence. But seriously mang, you're gonna have to give us your shit, and you better have not had any corn!"

If you can't tell, I'm belittling your suspension of disbelief, and how fucking fragile it is. 

AND YES, I AM USING PROFANITIES. Oh dear, I guess that makes me a complete, and total uncivilized idiot with an opinion that has no meaning now, because I used words that made your high, little proper testicles recede into your body. 

If that method of finding the Avatar has worked infallibly since times ancient, then who are you to say that it's inaccurate? Well? Do you have personal experience finding reincarnated individuals? Christ man, you make my head hurt with your myopic logic.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 12, 2010)

It's very simple. It has _always_ worked in the Avatar World. They live in a world where there is a proven, definable Spirit World, and the mysteries of that World present itself.


There is no debate, or even a reason for a debate on this.


----------



## Shade (Dec 12, 2010)

So how should we celebrate Page 1000? Only 15 more posts to decide so let's not waste them.

I say we repost the best posts that have been written about the series in the thread, limiting it to one per user (Jove ). Or maybe we can make that page entirely one which has all the Korra information we know so far (and we can keep updating it) so that when someone posts in the thread with "OMG did u gais here aboot nu avatar srs?", we can direct them there. Actually, though the latter may be useful, it wouldn't be much of a celebration.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 12, 2010)

This thread had a very slow start, 2 or 3 episodes would air before anyone began posting about them. By the time I came here it was pretty active although it would sometimes end up on page 2.


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 12, 2010)

Haven't been in this thread since DDJ finished the series. What'd I miss?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 12, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Haven't been in this thread since DDJ finished the series. What'd I miss?



DDJ recently revealed that he's been added to Korra's writing staff for the final 6 episodes.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 12, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> DDJ recently revealed that he's been added to Korra's writing staff for the final 6 episodes.


And M.Night is skipping the rest of the series, to make a Korra movie with a release this March.


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 12, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> DDJ recently revealed that he's been added to Korra's writing staff for the final 6 episodes.



Im not expecting Korra to be as good as the first series anyway, so I wont be surprised by anything, come what may.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 12, 2010)

Page 1000 will consist solely of a full series analysis of the series by DDJ.
Make it happen.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 12, 2010)

> If that method of finding the Avatar has worked infallibly since times ancient, then who are you to say that it's inaccurate? Well? *Do you have personal experience finding reincarnated individuals?* Christ man, you make my head hurt with your myopic logic.


Lol. **


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 12, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> Page 1000 will consist solely of a full series analysis of the series by DDJ.
> Make it happen.


Page 1001 will consist of posts of "Wait, wut." gifs, and succinct pics of expression of their bewilderment at the previous page.

Also, a random noob going on about how they just heard of Korra.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 12, 2010)

SO GUYS, WHEN DOES THE NEW EPISODE AIR???????????


----------



## Gunners (Dec 12, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Im not expecting Korra to be as good as the first series anyway, so I wont be surprised by anything, come what may.



To be honest I have high expectations for it, at first it bothered me that the series was short but looking at series like Samurai Champloo and Trigun I realise that it can work, so long as they cut out filler episodes and get to the point early.


----------



## Koi (Dec 12, 2010)

Can we just have an entire page of Wang Fire facts?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm preparing something that will at least begin on page 1000. It will take some work, because Rekky was using an insane amount of smileys those years ago...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 12, 2010)

When Wang Fire does a push up, he just keeps his hands planted, the Earth obliges to move his arms for him.

Wang Fire is drug-free, it's the way to be

Wang Fire once punched a Moose Lion so hard, that it cried. Not because the Moose Lion itself was hurt, but that its body hurt Wang Fires magnificent fist.

Wang Fire invented a language comprised of entirely of meat, with "Flameo" and "Hotman as its only vowels. Only uncool people can't understand it.

Wang Fire looks at most of that things that make people ask "Why?". Wang Fire just says. "Why not?"

Unaaaaaaagi.

Wang Fire claps on one side of the world, on the other, a tear of joy is shed.

No party is like a Wang Fire party because technically, it has no beginning, it has no end, it just is.

Wang Fire cried once. Okay, maybe twice...Alright alright, he cried a bunch of times, but we all cried with him.

Wang Fire always believes in sharing, except when it comes to fire flakes.

Wang Fire wrote a book once, we're still reading the first page.

Wang Fire greets the moon every night so that it will rise and fall every night. Sometimes, it turns pink.

How to spell Wang Fire


Wow, is that Wang Fire?
AAAAHHH! OMG, LOOK, IT'S WANG FIRE!
No way, can it really be Wang Fire?
Goodness gracious! IT'S WANG FIRE!
...Wang...FIRE!
FLAMEO! Wang Fire is here!
I can't believe it's Wang Fire!
Really? It's really Wang Fire?
 Eh, who cares about Wang Fire? (Toph)
Wang Fire has a heart, why won't you?

Wang Fire prefers long walks on The Beach. Wait, no, no one likes long walks on The Beach. Not even Wang Fire.

Wang Fire once tripped, he never got back up, we just moved the world to his orientation. 

Wang Fire is in each and every one of us. Except Wang Fire, because, dude, that would be weird.

Wang Fire made Azula sane, and Ozai a fun loving, tie-dye shirt wearing superdad. And all he did was listen...

Talking to Wang Fire solves all your problems, even ones you didn't know you were gonna have yet.

Unicorn tears cure broken hearts, Chuck Norris tears cure cancer, Wang Fire tears don't need to cure anything, because you just had to talk to him. Also, come on, you have Wang Fire tears now!

Wang Fire's beard can write in 15 different languages, but they can only write Wang Fire.

However, just reading Wang Fire, written by Wang Fire in any language, gives you all you need to know.

When Wang Fire crosses his arms, time feels a little slower, candy tastes a little sweeter, and kittens can giggle and smile with chortling, smirking puppies.

Wang Fire is on Santa's Wang Fire list.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 12, 2010)

Rekky, you keep editing, but I'm not going anywhere until I christen the new millenium.

Also, goddamn you and all your smileys. I may just have to screenshot it all.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 12, 2010)

SO     CLOSE


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 12, 2010)




----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 12, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Rekky, you keep editing, but I'm not going anywhere until I christen the new millenium.
> 
> Also, goddamn you and all your smileys. I may just have to screenshot it all.


Windows 7s snipping tool is quite handy


----------



## Gunners (Dec 12, 2010)

Indeed.    .


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 12, 2010)

*Starts throwing champagne bottles at everyone*


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 12, 2010)

What I think was my favorite time in the thread...


*The Immortal Poetry Phase*​


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 12, 2010)

I don't even recognize me


----------



## Shade (Dec 12, 2010)

Brilliant.

Now how about that 20 000th post...

By the way, very fitting avatar there, DDJ.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 12, 2010)

ReikaiDemon, I can suspend my disbelief and employ my imagination exceptionally well. I like to write, and have written a number of short stories and poems both for my classes at school and for leisure, and I believe that I am very good at being creative and imaginative.

As for the method of detecting the Avatar, if it works in the series, then I suppose that I should not criticize it, even if I disagree with it.



Two Turtle Joves said:


> DDJ recently revealed that he's been added to Korra's writing staff for the final 6 episodes.



As awesome as it would be for me to be involved in the production of the next series, I am simply an ordinary civilian, who, despite my fondness for the series, cannot hope to write as great a story as what has already been written.

Actually, on that subject, I shall confess, in complete seriousness, that while I enjoyed this series immensely, I secretly feel jealous of its creators, for having produced such an excellent and well-written story, and that is a significant reason for my great cynicism and overly-critical attitude toward this series. I must respect them for the effort that they put into making this franchise, but I find myself questioning my own writing abilities, so I know that I should not be comparing myself to the creators of this series, who are professionals and have great experience in the area of storytelling.

On that subject, I notice that Katara's name contains the word "katar," which is a type of weapon, yet she herself does not use such a weapon, nor does anyone else is this series. Long before I watched this series, or even before this series was made, I was planning on having a character in a story of my own named Katara, whose most distinctive trait would be her usage of katars as weapons, which would be rare in the setting of the story. Obviously, I have no evidence to support this claim, but that is beside the point; the main point is this: if I were to create a character named Katara in a story of my own, set in my own fictional universe, who had no similarity at all to the Katara of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ apart from her name, would anyone think that I was copying or plagiarizing from this series? I certainly hope not, because I find it to be a name that is simultaneously elegant and fierce. And, if anyone is wondering, any stories that I write I shall post for free on _FanFiction.net_ or _FictionPress.com_ because I do not believe that I am quite so skilled as to be able to make money from my writings.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 12, 2010)

It begins.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 12, 2010)

Shade said:


> By the way, very fitting avatar there, DDJ.



Thank you very much; I deliberately chose it in response to the comments that I have been receiving from the users of this thread; I employed the philosophy of "If you can't beat them, join them." I am showing that I am not bothered by the statements of the other users, and that I revel in being humorless and curmudgeonly.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 12, 2010)

Another validation to post again.

Delicious.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 12, 2010)

DDJ do you have a serious avatar to explain your like posting style, or vice versa?


----------



## Burke (Dec 12, 2010)

What ever happened to filling the entire 1000th page with The Post?

YOU LIE


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 12, 2010)

Mider T said:


> DDJ do you have a serious avatar to explain your like posting style, or vice versa?



Yes, I chose this avatar to match my manner of speech and general attitude toward certain aspects of my life. Many people, both on this forum and in actuality, have told me that I am very serious and uptight, often even to an excessive extent, so I see no need to deny their statements.


----------



## Burke (Dec 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I chose this avatar to match my manner of speech and general attitude toward certain aspects of my life. Many people, both on this forum and in actuality, have told me that I am very serious and uptight, often even to an excessive extent, so I see no need to deny their statements.



How does that stick feel DDJ


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 12, 2010)

N??ps said:


> How does that stick feel DDJ


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 12, 2010)

So much for Jove.


----------



## Noah (Dec 12, 2010)

A character named Katara that uses katars?

Sweet Jesus. Pretty soon we'll have the completely original idea of a fire-user named Blaze.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Thank you very much; I deliberately chose it in response to the comments that I have been receiving from the users of this thread; I employed the philosophy of *"If you can't beat them, join them."* I am showing that I am not bothered by the statements of the other users, and that I revel in being humorless and curmudgeonly.



Even though he was quoting someone else, I would like to congratulate DDJ for using a contraction.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 12, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Even though he was quoting someone else, I would like to congratulate DDJ for using a contraction.



I would like to congratulate him for finding people that tolerate his behaviour.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 12, 2010)

Noah said:


> A character named Katara that uses katars?
> 
> Sweet Jesus. Pretty soon we'll have the completely original idea of a fire-user named Blaze.


You took the keystrokes out of my hands 



> even if I disagree with it.



You're hopeless


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> However, I do hope that I can find a long-term romantic partner who will tolerate my unique behavior, but that is a subject for another thread.


Wait, wut.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I shall confess that I, on occasion, am very impressed with how other people can tolerate me,



Herpa derp


----------



## Noah (Dec 12, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Do not become accustomed to it, as that is the only way in which I shall ever use contractions, informal language, or vulgar words: when quoting another person or singing a song.



So what you're saying is that you're dead set on making sure all communication from your side sounds forced and unnatural. Cool beans, dude. 





> What is wrong with that idea? I think that it is a very awesome idea, and I actually attempt to give many characters in my stories names that are either alliterative or somehow describe their personality or appearance (not all characters, of course, but certain ones who are famous for whatever reason).



The age of comic book superhero codenames is over with. In the creative world, it's considered amateurish and, despite the thought process that may go into the naming, uncreative. The same goes for naming someone after a God, mythological figure or legendary hero. The creative part in the naming process now revolves around making a name fluid, catchy and natural. All that other stuff is old hat.

Naming someone after their weapon or skill is akin to naming a ninja-type character, Ninja.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 13, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Herpa derp



Thank you very much, Mider T. I was hoping for a thread such as that.



Noah said:


> The age of comic book superhero codenames is over with. In the creative world, it's considered amateurish and, despite the thought process that may go into the naming, uncreative. The same goes for naming someone after a God, mythological figure or legendary hero. The creative part in the naming process now revolves around making a name fluid, catchy and natural. All that other stuff is old hat.
> 
> Naming someone after their weapon or skill is akin to naming a ninja-type character, Ninja.



In my stories, which I am in the process of writing and hope to someday post online, the majority of characters (more than half of them) do not have names that are puns or related to their abilities or personalities, and the characters that do have a very logical explanation for having such meaningful names. If you wish for specific examples, let me know, and I shall send them to you by private message, as I do not wish to reveal any information about my stories prior to publishing them.

As for _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ some of the character's names are related to their appearances or personalities. I cannot provide specific examples, but I am certain that this website  will provide further information on the subject.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 13, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Thank you very much, Mider T. I was hoping for a thread such as that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That doesn't change anything, Comic Book names are still dorky 

If anything, that makes it dorkier. Maybe even coming off as a deliberate ironic thing. Which would be awesome, if I didn't know you were actually serious about it.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 13, 2010)

Herpa derp , Herpa derp , Herpa derp


----------



## Burke (Dec 13, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Wait, wut.



I was confused too, this whole time i figured he was asexual


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 13, 2010)

N??ps said:


> What ever happened to filling the entire 1000th page with The Post?
> 
> YOU LIE



Fine.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 13, 2010)

Noah said:


> The age of comic book superhero codenames is over with. In the creative world, it's considered amateurish and, despite the thought process that may go into the naming, uncreative. The same goes for naming someone after a God, mythological figure or legendary hero. The creative part in the naming process now revolves around making a name fluid, catchy and natural. All that other stuff is old hat.
> 
> Naming someone after their weapon or skill is akin to naming a ninja-type character, Ninja.





ReikaiDemon said:


> That doesn't change anything, Comic Book names are still dorky
> 
> If anything, that makes it dorkier. Maybe even coming off as a deliberate ironic thing. Which would be awesome, if I didn't know you were actually serious about it.



Now that the two of you have made this argument, I shall ask you to defend it; please provide me with an example of a name that you believe to be "dorky" or "weird" and then a name that is more "normal." Because you have made the claim, the burden of proof is upon the two of you.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 13, 2010)

Actually, Katara's original name was Qatara. 

She was a bid-bender.


----------



## Burke (Dec 13, 2010)

Woah Jove, no need to feel forced to do it. because of your attitude, i request that you delete it 












Oh and just a question, that quoting thing your using recently, ive never seen it before, wheres it from?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 13, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Now that the two of you have made this argument, I shall ask you to defend it; please provide me with an example of a name that you believe to be "dorky" or "weird" and then a name that is more "normal." Because you have made the claim, the burden of proof is upon the two of you.


Okay, so you'd accept the fact, that you yourself, a staunch advocate of "realism" somehow accepts that through the odds; lets say someone like Otto Octavius; ends up with a total of eight limbs and coins the moniker Dr. Octopus? 

No matter what reason you have, it's still a dated trope to have a character's name be indicative of their fate or character. It's near the level of lazy pun work. Other people have tried, it may have been less contrived in those instances, but most of the time, it's still no better than calling someone "Bad Dude A, and his dashing arch-nemesis Righteous Man 1." And have their names be, I dunno, "Baron Cthulu X. Puppykicker the VI and Gandhi Heartlover".  

You of all people, I'm surprised. You grind your gears on things in Avatar that doesn't meet your expectations of the real world, like the use of the word bathroom, or how toys can find the Avatar because it just doesn't mesh with our scientific process.

Earned titles and self-coined monikers are different, but given names somehow tell what that character is like several years after their birth? Wouldn't that seem ridiculous to DDJ?

...

Who are you, and what have you done with that dullard?!

I mean, hell, even comic book writers know how ridiculous it is; Edward Nigma, The Riddler for example, seemed to have crossed the line. So they retconned that he was Edward Nashton, and legally changed his name for shits and giggles. 

The practice is dorky, sure, but it's not stupid, or offensive. It's even fun, but what really gets me is that you're trying to make it _believable_. And that is just confounding on many levels. One of the biggest is the kind of person you are, the other, seems like too much focus would be put into pigeonholing your characters into their "epithetical vocation" than anything else, like say the story, or the characters as believable people. It's a gimmick. Just a base gimmick, it doesn't be made believable, and even if you do try, people will still see it as the same level as every other piece of fiction that names their characters in relation to their lot in life, or character. And it _is_.

Not to discourage or anything, I just think it's confounding on many levels for you.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 13, 2010)

.....

I'm hoping to change the subject from whatever happened. This is a tired out question, I know:

Anything new? Interviews? Creators cancel the show or something?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes, they cancelled Korra because the movie bombed


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 13, 2010)

DDJ said:
			
		

> a bunch of crap about character names





ReikaiDemon said:


> ...and then some more crap



I can just imagine VIctor Von Doom (who later became Dr. Doom of Fantastic 4 fame) in first grade.

Teacher: And what do you want to be when you grow up?

Victor: Bitch, my last names "Doom!" What do you think I'm going to do when I grow up? Run a soup kitchen. NO! I'm going to try and take over the world. I'm not saying I want to, but really, what choice do I have. Now leave me and go grade the papers. Doom has spoken!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 13, 2010)

Sokka probably should have been an accessories designer.


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 13, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Sokka probably should have been an accessories designer.



What you talkin about Willis?


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 13, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Yes, they cancelled Korra because the movie bombed



That can't be true because the movie earned a lot of money 

Oh yea, did I tell you guys? I own the movie now...the deleted scenes were....ug! They still advertised the scenes they cut from the movie, within the DVD. That angered me beyond anything. I wanted to take the DVD and shove it up M.Night's backdoor!


----------



## Noah (Dec 14, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Okay, so you'd accept the fact, that you yourself, a staunch advocate of "realism" somehow accepts that through the odds; lets say someone like Otto Octavius; ends up with a total of eight limbs and coins the moniker Dr. Octopus?
> 
> No matter what reason you have, it's still a dated trope to have a character's name be indicative of their fate or character. It's near the level of lazy pun work. Other people have tried, it may have been less contrived in those instances, but most of the time, it's still no better than calling someone "Bad Dude A, and his dashing arch-nemesis Righteous Man 1." And have their names be, I dunno, "Baron Cthulu X. Puppykicker the VI and Gandhi Heartlover".
> 
> ...



Yes. That.

I don't feel like defending my stance, because I don't have the energy for it.Those two or three paragraphs in my previous posts are all you people are getting from me over this. That's the most energy I've put into an argument in, something like, three years. 

Also:
Owen Wallace
Graham Aikman
Joe Black (awful movie, awesome name)
Lester Freeman
Cartwright McDowell

Not all original names, but those names are boss, goddammit.


----------



## Bender (Dec 14, 2010)

I love Nicktoons so much pek  pek

They're showing 3 season Avatar marathon next Monday


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 14, 2010)

Noah said:


> Yes. That.
> 
> I don't feel like defending my stance, because I don't have the energy for it.Those two or three paragraphs in my previous posts are all you people are getting from me over this. That's the most energy I've put into an argument in, something like, three years.
> 
> ...



You missed one.  I got your back


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 14, 2010)

Noah said:


> Yes. That.
> 
> I don't feel like defending my stance, because I don't have the energy for it.Those two or three paragraphs in my previous posts are all you people are getting from me over this. That's the most energy I've put into an argument in, something like, three years.
> 
> ...



Marcellus Wallace


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 14, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Marcellus Wallace



...What        ?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 14, 2010)




----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 14, 2010)

Soul Assassin said:


> ...What        ?


English, friend, do you speak it?


----------



## Noah (Dec 14, 2010)

#3-5 are awesome. The rest are poop. 

Oh! I can't believe I forgot one!
Chauncey FacebreakMcMastersmashpunch


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 14, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> English, friend, do you speak it?



 Yes! Yes        !


----------



## Burke (Dec 14, 2010)

This is really cool, but the resource officer at my school is officially called.

Officer Gunn


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 14, 2010)

So, from the responses that I have received, it seems that most users here believe that if I created a character named Katara who used katars as her weapons, that would be weird or cliche, even if I gave a great effort to give her a well-developed personality and ensure that she was completely dissimilar to the Katara of _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_

On the subject of Katara, has anyone noticed that she and Aang are the only official romantic couple in the series were both people are benders? I am rather disappointed that Zuko did not have a female bender as his romantic interest.

And on that subject, was anyone else disappointed that Azula was the only important female firebender in the entire series? Or that Katara was the only important waterbender at all in the series (Aang is the Avatar, so he does not count, and Pakku was also important, but not to as great an extent as Katara)? Or that more firebenders and earthbenders were seen in the series than waterbenders or airbenders (the airbenders were eliminated, but more appearances in flashbacks would have been appreciated)?

Finally, I noticed that only three official couples existed by the end of this series: Aang and Katara, Zuko and Mai, Sokka and Suki, which leaves, Toph, Ty Lee, Azula, Haru, and Teo among the younger cast members without romantic partners by the end of the series. I know that not every character needs to have a romantic partner, but is it not unfortunate that only very few characters in the series became canonical couples?


----------



## Koi (Dec 14, 2010)

Nøøps said:


> This is really cool, but the resource officer at my school is officially called.
> 
> Officer Gunn



The guy who sends out the Rutgers crime alert emails is named Kenneth B. Cop.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 14, 2010)

Noah said:


> So what you're saying is that you're dead set on making sure all communication from your side sounds forced and unnatural. Cool beans, dude.



Perhaps for you, such speech is "unnatural" or "forced," but for me, such speech is perfectly natural and easy, and I am accustomed to speaking in such a manner, having done so for a significant portion of my life.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 14, 2010)

Allow me to dissect your post into multiple parts so as that I can give an accurate and in depth response to each individual point. 




DemonDragonJ said:


> On the subject of Katara, has anyone noticed that she and Aang are the only official romantic couple in the series were both people are benders? I am rather disappointed that Zuko did not have a female bender as his romantic interest.



Do you have like, a hat or something full of random strips of paper. One filled with characters names. Another filled with random events from the show. Then a third filled with adjectives, nouns and complaints that you pick from so you can string together a crazy Madlib of unrelated inconsequential shit to bitch about. 

Because that's the only scenario in which I can possibly imagine that would lead to some of the posts you make. 



DemonDragonJ said:


> And on that subject, was anyone else disappointed that Azula was the only important female firebender in the entire series?



No. 




DemonDragonJ said:


> Or that Katara was the only important waterbender at all in the series (Aang is the Avatar, so he does not count, and Pakku was also important, but not to as great an extent as Katara)?



No.




DemonDragonJ said:


> Or that more firebenders and earthbenders were seen in the series than waterbenders or airbenders (the airbenders were eliminated, but more appearances in flashbacks would have been appreciated)?



No.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Finally, I noticed that only three official couples existed by the end of this series: Aang and Katara, Zuko and Mai, Sokka and Suki, which leaves, Toph, Ty Lee, Azula, Haru, and Teo among the younger cast members without romantic partners by the end of the series. I know that not every character needs to have a romantic partner, but is it not unfortunate that only very few characters in the series became canonical couples?



No.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Perhaps for you, such speech is "unnatural" or "forced," but for me, such speech is perfectly natural and easy, and I am accustomed to speaking in such a manner, having done so for a significant portion of my life.



Wait, wait, wait. Are you honestly saying that this is how you actually speak in real life. This isn't just how you post. You really actually speak this way too!?


Like, _really?_


----------



## Noah (Dec 14, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> So, from the responses that I have received, it seems that most users here believe that if I created a character named Katara who used katars as her weapons, that would be weird or cliche, even if I gave a great effort to give her a well-developed personality and *ensure that she was completely dissimilar to the Katara of Avatar: the Last Airbender?*



It has absolutely nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that you're developing a character named after her gimmick. To have someone's name be so closely tied to his/her weapon, ability, power, or skill is essentially shoe-horning. As I said before, it's the same as giving a stealthy assassin the name Ninja. It's wholly uncreative and gimmicky.

It has nothing to do with her name being so similar to the existing Katara. I don't know where that idea came from.


EDIT:




DemonDragonJ said:


> Perhaps for you, such speech is "unnatural" or "forced," but for me, such speech is perfectly natural and easy, and I am accustomed to speaking in such a manner, having done so for a significant portion of my life.



Unless you live in a ye olde english village over thy hill yonder, where everyone speaks without using any form of slang or grammatical shortenings, then yes, it's going to feel forced. The only people who won't find it forced and unnatural are other people who speak in the same manner. Unfortunately, you, kind roboman, are in the vast minority.

Part of being human is adaptation. Switch from ROM and start adapting.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 14, 2010)

If only the show was 120 episodes, with every other season comprised of episodes focusing on completely arbitrary people in the Avatar World.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 15, 2010)

My mom likes Avatar.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 15, 2010)

Who's her favorite character?


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 15, 2010)

I never asked.

It's probably Katara.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 15, 2010)

(let's change the subject guys ^.^)



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> My mom likes Avatar.



Ahem...

Mine too! :33

I think her favorite is Aang or Sokka


----------



## Piekage (Dec 15, 2010)

My folks actually enjoyed the movie since they hadn't seen the show yet. Then they did, and saw that abomination for what it was. Good times.


----------



## Foxve (Dec 15, 2010)

Does everyone here know that a spin-off series of the show is currently being developed? It's called "Avatar: Legend of Korra". It will feature the next avatar after aang(which happens to be a girl named Korra from the water tribe) having to master airbending from Aang and Katara's son Tenzin to stop a anti-bender revolt.....


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh really? You are the first person to tell us


----------



## Foxve (Dec 15, 2010)

It's supposed to air in November 2011. 

Here's a


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 15, 2010)

Foxve said:


> It's supposed to air in November 2011.
> 
> Here's a


I'm sorry, let me try that again

Oh _really_? You are the _first_ person to tell us.


----------



## Foxve (Dec 15, 2010)

Sarcasm's hard to take on this forum if you can't tell what it is. That being said, just trying to be nice


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 15, 2010)

We really appreciate it. New faces are always welcome.


Now start from page 248 and work you way up.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 16, 2010)

And I want a full report on my desk by lunch time tomorrow or you're off the force!

_You're a loose cannon Foxve!_


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 16, 2010)

He's a loose cannon cop who _doesn't_ play by the rules.


----------



## Burke (Dec 16, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> We really appreciate it. New faces are always welcome.
> 
> 
> Now start from page 248 and work you way up.



Why is that the page you joined?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 16, 2010)

To sum up Page 248:





JB the Jedi said:


> Omg ! why are we waiting this long, this is torture. I better get into another series so the waiting won't hurt as much. * Don't think Avatar thoughts *





Superstarseven said:


> Who wants more of the official Avatar Japanese Dub?





/root said:


> I've just started watching this.
> 
> I'm about...11 episodes in.
> 
> I don't mind it so far, but that Great Divide episode or w/e it was called, with the split tribes. That was annoying as hell.


ayoz
This message has been deleted by Robotkiller. Reason: No. It wasn't out the last time you asked, or the time before that. Or the time before that.


Cenyane said:


> same here................





Two Turtle Joves said:


> Woah, I've got BIG news! Tvshowsondvd.com just reported that the Book 3, Vol. 3 DVD will be released *May 6*. It will include DOBS, Pt. 2: The Eclipse, The Western Air Temple, The Firebending Masters, The Boiling Rock: Pt. 1, and The Boiling Rock: Pt. 2.
> 
> So working backwards from that date, we can be assured that Nick will start airing new episodes by *April 4th* at the latest. It will probably be before that, though, to ensure that the finale aira during mid-May. I'd expect March 21 or March 28.
> 
> And check out the fucking cover!





Superstarseven said:


> Great art! So we can be assured that there is going to be some major Aang firebending *sigh* _pwnage_ in the Boiling Rock 2-parter.





Hio said:


> Fuck Yeah, Fucking Cover is Fucking!





Misha-San said:


> Nice cover Zuko looks smexy....





Sunuvmann said:


> I want to sex that cover. Its beautiful





Blix said:


> That is awesome art there.





Gamble said:


> That cover is fucking brilliant.





Omolara said:


> Sweet! The 6th is my birthday! I just started this series (everybody was reccing it) last week and watched all three books in three days since I was off work. I am so in love with this show now! Too bad about the wait though...





Nizuma Eiji said:


> ^^^Every episode of Avatar so far in 3 DAYS????? Nice shit man.





kewlmyc said:


> That cover is beautiful, man.





Superstarseven said:


> Yes this show usually does a fine job gaining new fans. It has done what people originally thought it wouldn't which is find an audience among Anime geeks. Otherwise you'd have another Totally Spies or W.I.T.C.H which deserve the very small fandom that they have. Anyway what started you on this mission to see the entire show up to the latest episode? Friend suggestion...something you always wanted to do but never found the time?





Kage said:


> very awesome cover
> 
> wonder how much the volume will cost?





Proxy said:


> What happened to ep 14? Did it come out as yet?





Stallyns808 said:


> Nope.  Might have to wait 'til April for new episodes of Avatar to air.





JB the Jedi said:


> Awesome Cover !
> 
> Aang is about to be a Beast !





Muk said:


> say isn't the production of avatar being done in canada? or so at least i thought ...
> 
> so the writers strike shouldn't technically affect the production right?
> 
> or am i just being miss informed?????


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 16, 2010)

I seem like an ass.


----------



## The Potential (Dec 16, 2010)

Piekage said:


> My folks actually enjoyed the movie since they hadn't seen the show yet. Then they did, and saw that abomination for what it was. Good times.



Alot of people [my family excluding my two little brothers] that didn't watch the show seem to enjoy the movie. 

I'd really have loved to have my family watch the series after the movie and get the same reaction you did.

Simply priceless!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 16, 2010)

I only posted once on that page? 

My first page was 192. December 4th, 2007. 51 episodes into the show. 811 pages ago.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 16, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> I only posted once on that page?
> 
> My first page was 192. December 4th, 2007. 51 episodes into the show. 811 pages ago.


When was I?! When was I?! :33


----------



## Burke (Dec 16, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> When was I?! When was I?! :33



While were at it, find me. :ho



Superstarseven said:


> I seem like an ass.



What do you have against totally spies!?


----------



## Koi (Dec 16, 2010)

Hey guys!  Did you hear about the new Avatar series they're making?!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 16, 2010)

Koi said:


> Hey guys!  Did you hear about the new Avatar series they're making?!


Yes! All the characters are cute kitties! :33


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 16, 2010)

They tapped into the limitless potential of an emergent Eastern Massachusetts talent named Deemon D. Raygonjae. Overt sexual context, polysyllabic dialogue, and excessive focus on tertiary characters, sorely missing from A:tLA, will drive this exciting new enterprise.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 16, 2010)

Foxve said:


> It's supposed to air in November 2011.
> 
> Here's a



I didn't know they had a date set. :amazed

Thank you for sharing, Foxve :>


----------



## CrazyAries (Dec 16, 2010)

Foxve said:


> It's supposed to air in November 2011.
> 
> Here's a



I do believe that I have the homepage of that site bookmarked.  Still, there are going to make us wait....


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm feeling a mixture of joy and being very fucking upset. It's kind of like "Yay, we're waiting on new Avatar!" and "Dammit, MORE waiting on new Avatar". But that's just me being bitchy.


----------



## Koi (Dec 17, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Yes! All the characters are cute kitties! :33



YESSSSSSSS.

They can cast my one kittah as Ty Lee.  And the other one can be Appa.  She's a big fatty.


----------



## Burke (Dec 17, 2010)

Koi said:


> YESSSSSSSS.
> 
> They can cast my one kittah as Ty Lee.  And the other one can be Appa.  She's a big fatty.



Kitty parade


----------



## Gunners (Dec 17, 2010)

Am I the only person who disliked Katara?


----------



## Adonis (Dec 17, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Am I the only person who disliked Katara?



Nah, she was a bitch and rarely got called on it.


----------



## CrazyAries (Dec 17, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Am I the only person who disliked Katara?



So, that is why you enjoyed it when Paku overwhelmed her.

Of course you are not the only one who disliked Katara.  Not all characters will have fans and not all fans will like certain characters.


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 17, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Am I the only person who disliked Katara?



There were times I did massively dislike her. Especially when she was hatin' on my boy Zuko.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 17, 2010)

I said this several hundred pages ago, but it truly is amazing the percentage of problems the Gaang dealt with could be traced back to Katara's idiotic stubbornness.

So thanks for episodic plot, Katara.


----------



## Burke (Dec 17, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> I said this several hundred pages ago, but it truly is amazing the percentage of problems the Gaang dealt with could be traced back to Katara's idiotic stubbornness.
> 
> So thanks for episodic plot, Katara.



I would like to see you make a list. I ask, not out of doubt, but out of interest.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 17, 2010)

I'll make one in the New Year: Katara's 10 Worst Fucking Balderdash Decisions.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 17, 2010)

I didn't like her much, but I don't hate her. She is just extremely annoying a lot of the times xD


----------



## Adonis (Dec 17, 2010)

Katara telling Toph: "Stars sure are beautiful tonight. Too bad YOU can't see them!" is pure bitch. I don't care if they were having a little tiff; you've got to be one ignorant slut to say some cruel shit like that.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I actually sort of got shut down by a shitty Avatar fanfic nut.

I was trying to explain how a "plucky teen/preteen who has somehow mastered talents and skills far beyond their years" was veering into Mary Sue territory when she pointed out that that describes 95% of the protagonists and major antagonists. The super-Jesus of the universe is 12, Katara is virtually a waterbending master at 14-15 in a few months' time, Sokka mastered swordsmanship in like a week and could hold his own against those twice his senior before that, Toph is... Toph, Azula would be Machiavelli's wet dream if he were a pedo and didn't write *The Prince* ironically, etc.

Point is, it's sort of hard to mock people for such transparent wish fulfillment when the fiction they're inserting their "author avatar" into is a child's playground of martial arts and political intrigue.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 17, 2010)

Maybe Hakoda's lineage is special


----------



## Gunners (Dec 17, 2010)

Adonis said:
			
		

> Nah, she was a bitch and rarely got called on it.





> Katara telling Toph: "Stars sure are beautiful tonight. Too bad YOU can't see them!" is pure bitch. I don't care if they were having a little tiff; you've got to be one ignorant slut to say some cruel shit like that.


Ties together nicely. If it was any other character they'd have people chastising them for how horrible their comments were.


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 17, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Katara telling Toph: "Stars sure are beautiful tonight. Too bad YOU can't see them!" is pure bitch. I don't care if they were having a little tiff; you've got to be one ignorant slut to say some cruel shit like that.



Not to mention she continued to antagonize her throughout their overnight journey. 

The morning after when Appa fell asleep and they landed:_ "Of course we could have gotten some sleep earlier if Toph didn't have such issues."_

That was a really petty thing to say. They'd all been without sleep, stalked, and attacked. Then when they finally have a second's peace, Katara brings up some old shit no one was even thinking about, thus starting drama in the group.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 17, 2010)

One thing that made me laugh was when she laughed at Aang saying ''I knew you wouldn't understand'' and he reminded her of the fact that his civilisation was wiped out.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 17, 2010)

Theory: Katara just started puberty


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 17, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Point is, it's sort of hard to mock people for such transparent wish fulfillment when the fiction they're inserting their "author avatar" into is a child's playground of martial arts and political intrigue.



Oh, balderdash. Avatar at least presented struggle and growth effectively. There isn't much mystery to how this coterie of prodigies became so powerful. 

How much fanfic does that? And anyway, Mary Sue is about context and in fanfic it is almost always cheap and self-congratulatory. 

You were100% right and that fanfic nut sounds cluelessly defensive, like far too much of the Avatar fandom.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 17, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Katara telling Toph: "Stars sure are beautiful tonight. Too bad YOU can't see them!" is pure bitch. I don't care if they were having a little tiff; you've got to be one ignorant slut to say some cruel shit like that.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------


I wanted to kill Katara after I heard that.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 17, 2010)

Actually, I thought it was a moment of clarity for Katara. You don't push around the push-arounder.


----------



## CrazyAries (Dec 17, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I didn't know they had a date set. :amazed
> 
> Thank you for sharing, Foxve :>





Terra Branford said:


> I wanted to kill Katara after I heard that.



These posts were exactly 24 hours apart. 

Anyway, I generally like Katara, but I did not like her in that episode (in the final season) where she took Zuko to hunt down that former firebender who killed her mother.  She did have her bitchy moments, but that meant that she was not perfect.  I hate perfect characters.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 17, 2010)

CrazyAries said:


> *These posts were exactly 24 hours apart.
> *
> Anyway, I generally like Katara, but I did not like her in that episode (in the final season) where she took Zuko to hunt down that former firebender who killed her mother.  She did have her bitchy moments, but that meant that she was not perfect.  I hate perfect characters.



Is that bad? 

I've never seen a perfect character. There isn't such a thing as perfect character....is there?


----------



## Koi (Dec 18, 2010)

Adonis said:


> Katara telling Toph: "Stars sure are beautiful tonight. Too bad YOU can't see them!" is pure bitch. I don't care if they were having a little tiff; you've got to be one* ignorant slut* to say some cruel shit like that.



..Is Katara really not free from the slutshaming?


----------



## Adonis (Dec 18, 2010)

Koi said:


> ..Is Katara really not free from the slutshaming?



Thanks to watching Dan Akroyd in the Weekend Update SNL skit, I try to crowbar in "ignorant slut" from the classic "Jane, you ignorant slut" into any post disparaging a female.

I have no opinion on Katara's slutitude one way or the other.


----------



## Koi (Dec 18, 2010)

Shit, I am using 'slutitude' in _everything_ now.


----------



## CrazyAries (Dec 18, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Is that bad?
> 
> I've never seen a perfect character. There isn't such a thing as perfect character....is there?



No, it's cool. 

I have one "perfect" character in mind.  He is in another story.

*Spoiler*: __ 



His name starts with M-I  and ends with -nato.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 18, 2010)

There was an unfortunate lack of slutitude on the show. Yeah, powerful and substantive female charactersWHATEVER. Even Ty Lee was just a shell of slutitude, a pale facsimile of the real thing. 


And sketch, not skit. /humorsnob


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 18, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Even Ty Lee was just a shell of slutitude, a pale facsimile of the real thing.





Not my Ty Lee!


----------



## Shade (Dec 18, 2010)

And how would rate June on this slutitude spectrum of yours?


----------



## Koi (Dec 18, 2010)

JUN DOESN'T NEED A MAN


----------



## hehey (Dec 18, 2010)

Who the hell is June??!!


----------



## Burke (Dec 18, 2010)

I just know you all will appreciate these 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGgzS8kC0h4[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJeD4ErwO04&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Piekage (Dec 18, 2010)

hehey said:


> Who the hell is June??!!



Hottest female on the show .


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 18, 2010)

Piekage said:


> Hottest female on the show .



You crossed it out when you realized you misread "June" as "Jin."


----------



## Burke (Dec 18, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> You crossed it out when you realized you misread "June" as "Jin."



He misread June as Jyuu di

"Which one?"

All of them, at the same time.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 19, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> They tapped into the limitless potential of an emergent Eastern Massachusetts talent named Deemon D. Raygonjae. Overt sexual context, polysyllabic dialogue, and excessive focus on tertiary characters, sorely missing from A:tLA, will drive this exciting new enterprise.



Is this comment referring to me? If it is, I am not bothered so much by your sarcasm now as I was when I first started posting in this thread, but I dislike your announcing _on a public forum_ where I live. And how did you know were I live, anyway? I do not recall every revealing that information to you.

And what is wrong with polysyllabic dialogue, or with focusing on minor characters? The minor characters need screen time, as well; what about _Bleach_ and _Naruto?_ The minor characters in those series have very little screen time, at all.  As for polysyllabic dialogue, I believe that it helps to make a person seem to be more intelligent; and I know perfectly well that it does not indicate that they _are_ intelligent, but I like polysyllabic words more than I do monosyllabic words.



Gunners said:


> Am I the only person who disliked Katara?



There were several situations where I did not like Katara's behavior, such as when she insulted Toph's blindness, when she threatened Zuko, or when she froze the two boys in ice to learn where Earth Rumble VI was being held, but I believe that she overall was a very kind and caring person, and certainly was not as evil as Ozai or Azula or as extreme as Jet.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Theory: Katara just started puberty



Well, she is fourteen years old, but I do not believe that that excuses her behavior, and are you implying that when children being to go through puberty, they become very angry and hostile toward other people?

Also, to continue my talking about minor characters, is anyone displeased that Kanna, Katara and Sokka's grandmother, appeared only the first two episodes, and then never appeared again? I certainly am. And what about the girl, Nini, mentioned only once by Katara in a ghost story? I would very much like to learn more about her.

Or is it that the creators of the series are deliberately leaving certain characters mysterious, so that the audience can use their own imagination about them? I like that, as well.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 19, 2010)

What did you expect? Action-grandma traveling the world on a flying bison kickin' fire nation ass?
There was absolutely no place for her to appear in the story.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 19, 2010)

Why does our robot keep bringing up Naruto and Bleach?


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 19, 2010)

> Pakku



Incredibly skilled waterbender.



> Piandao



Legendary swordsman.



> Jeong-Jeong



Former fire nation admiral, a legend in the Fire Nation.



> Iroh



He's motherfucking Iroh.



> Kanna



Elderly housewife from a place where there have been no known female warriors and all the waterbenders have been taken away. Also she lives in one of the most utterly irrelevant places in the world.

Which one of those won't get much screentime dearest DDJ?

And before you ask, imagine Bumi in the southern water tribe during the Fire Nation raids. He would rape the shit out of them. Having someone as strong as them there would break the plot.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 19, 2010)

And while I'm on the subject of talking about shit only DDJ would think about. Why didn't they spend more time focusing on Sang-gook. He was the kid Katara beat in her bending sparring while training with Pakku, but that's the last we ever see of him. How come they didn't follow up on him at all. I think the ramifications of him being beaten by a girl in a society that traditionally thought little of allowing women to fight would have created an interesting dynamic to pursue in further plots. Did his friends make fun of him, was he taunted about it at school. Did he start to train harder after that so he could prove himself to Master Pakku. Or has he sworn revenge against Katara?

Why would they bring up such a critical point of character development then just never address it again as though it didn't happen?

I just don't like it when minor characters are, for some bizarre reason, given less relevance and screen time than the shows primary cast.


In other news:



DemonDragonJ said:


> As for polysyllabic dialogue, I believe that it helps to make a person seem to be more intelligent; and I know perfectly well that it does not indicate that they _are_ intelligent, but I like polysyllabic words more than I do monosyllabic words.



It actually comes across more desperate then intelligent. Like you're trying as hard as you can to sound smart instead of just participating in the conversation. 

Hey everyone, look at me! Look at me! See how big my brain is! See all these big words I'm using!

As for the rest of your last couple posts. I think I'll just quote myself once again. 



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> DDJ don't take this the wrong way or anything, but a lot of the things you're nitpicking and complaining about seem like you're doing so simply for the sake of nitpicking and complaining.
> 
> Like randomizing the Avatar state, I really don't see what possible difference that could make, or why the rules of the cycle established in the show would even seem 'unfair'?
> 
> ...



...and why do the girls in the water tribe put their hair in those loops. I don't feel that was ever adequately explained. Speaking of the water tribe, was anyone else disappointed that they never addressed the fishing techniques implemented to harvest their major food staple? They showed them eating several times, but never did we get an explanation of whether or not they sent out fishing expeditions or if the fish at the banquet they threw for Aang were harvested from fish stock ponds kept in the village for ease of access. I feel that such an important detail of their socio-economic structure shouldn't have just been left out in such a manner.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 19, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> And while I'm on the subject of talking about shit only DDJ would think about. Why didn't they spend more time focusing on Sang-gook. He was the kid Katara beat in her bending sparring while training with Pakku, but that's the last we ever see of him. How come they didn't follow up on him at all. I think the ramifications of him being beaten by a girl in a society that traditionally thought little of allowing women to fight would have created an interesting dynamic to pursue in further plots. Did his friends make fun of him, was he taunted about it at school. Did he start to train harder after that so he could prove himself to Master Pakku. Or has he sworn revenge against Katara?
> 
> Why would they bring up such a critical point of character development then just never address it again as though it didn't happen?
> 
> ...


He probably became a ladyboy


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

@Thepostssofar:
................

Ahem, anyway.

Let's move off of whatever is the problem now and focus on something else, eh?

How about that we have to wait so friggin' long for Korra's show.

I am only gonna be raged from that.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 19, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> They tapped into the limitless potential of an emergent Eastern Massachusetts talent named Deemon D. Raygonjae. Overt sexual context, polysyllabic dialogue, and excessive focus on tertiary characters, sorely missing from A:tLA, will drive this exciting new enterprise.



DDJ negged me for this post. But, as you can see, this was about Deemon D. Ragonjae, not DemonDragonJ.

Furthermore, DemonDragonJ is probably not his real name. Obviously, he'll instantly regret this mistake.


----------



## Koi (Dec 19, 2010)

I kind of feel bad about picking on DDJ, tbh, but.. I mean the posts were cute at first but dude come on really.  To the vernacular you go.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't know why he negged me, anyway. Not only was I talking about a different person, as I clearly demonstrated but I'm not even harsh towards him.


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> I don't know why he negged me, anyway. Not only was I talking about a different person, as I clearly demonstrated but I'm not even harsh towards him.



"Cannot give Jove any more reps."
I just do it so much 

ALSO, did yall see the videos i posted?


----------



## Koi (Dec 19, 2010)

You mean, you cannot find a valid reason with which to determine his disapproval of your post, because the subject of your ire has never been he himself?


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 19, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> I don't know why he negged me, anyway. Not only was I talking about a different person, as I clearly demonstrated but I'm not even harsh towards him.



Why did he neg you?

I've been calling him (not so subtly) an idiot in nearly everything I post, everywhere I see him post and all I get is confusion.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

N??ps said:


> "Cannot give Jove any more reps."
> I just do it so much
> 
> ALSO, did yall see the videos i posted?



No, I didn't see the post 

Way, way, way, way too posts/debate/fights.

Which page was it on?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 19, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> Elderly housewife from a place where there have been no known female warriors and all the waterbenders have been taken away. Also she lives in one of the most utterly irrelevant places in the world.
> 
> Which one of those won't get much screentime dearest DDJ?



I was asking for an _out-of-universe_ reason, not an _in-universe_ one; i.e., why did the creators choose to not give Kanna a major role in the series? I shall confess now that I dislike housewives, stay-at-home mothers, or any women in fictional stories who do not fight and have adventures with men; in other words, not only do I like seeing women being equals to the men in stories, I actually expect it, and find it annoying when women need to prove themselves to men, rather than being automatically regarded as their equals.

And even if Hanna never fought in battle, surely she could have appeared again at the end of the series to say positive words to her grandchildren?



Two Turtle Joves said:


> DDJ negged me for this post. But, as you can see, this was about Deemon D. Ragonjae, not DemonDragonJ.
> 
> Furthermore, DemonDragonJ is probably not his real name. Obviously, he'll instantly regret this mistake.



Do you really expect me to believe that there is a person who has a user name similar to mine, lives where I live, and has opinions similar to my own about this series? I admit that it is possible, but it is extremely unlikely and improbable.

And yes, DemonDragonJ is not my real name, but I shall never reveal my real name to you, if this is how you treat me as an anonymous internet user; I would never tolerate such treatment in actuality.

And Jove, you still have not revealed how you know where I live, and I do not appreciate you stating such information on a publicly viewable forum. I ask that you first inform me of how you know where I live, and then that you please do not repeat such information.

However, if you really wish to argue the semantics of this situation, then I shall admit that I was wrong, but the manner in which everyone is treating me here is becoming very annoying. I have feelings, also, even if I do not seem to, and I wish to be able to participate in this discussion along with everyone else, but I cannot if I do not feel welcomed by the other users.



Nodonn said:


> Why did he neg you?
> 
> I've been calling him (not so subtly) an idiot in nearly everything I post, everywhere I see him post and all I get is confusion.



I gave Jove -rep because I am becoming increasingly frustrated with the behavior of the other users toward me in this thread. Even if everyone else believes that their words do not bother me, they do; I am hurt by your callousness and deeply desire to be accepted by the other users of this forum. And why have you been insulting me in such an un-subtle manner? Did I ever do anything that personally offended you? If not, then I shall ask you to stop, but if I did, I would like to discuss the subject privately, so that I can resolve it. I do not like to have unsettled or unresolved conflicts with other people, either on the internet or in actuality.

To change subjects completely, I notice that all the previous Avatars wore the clothing of their native peoples, but what if there was an Avatar  who completely severed all ties that they had to their place of origin and deliberately kept their past shrouded in mystery, so that they seemed to be a true unifier of the nations, with no special ties to any of them? I would like to see that very much.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 19, 2010)

I can tell you exactly how I found out. I checked your IP because I thought you might be a dupe. Now, I could say the exact city where you live, but I kept it quite general, since I was only joking and it was meant to be lighthearted.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 19, 2010)

I find it funny that 
1. DDJ has a Christmas set, with Jesus as his Avatar. Now, this can mean many unfortunate things.
2. Associating Jesus with Christmas is lulz^8 power. 
3. Pagan holidays are fuckin' AWESOME
4. Jesus in DDJ's avatar is white= lulz^12 power

Anyways, I doubt an Avatar would sever ties with their home, because one  of the themes in this series is CULTURE, and to treasure your culture.  More so for Aang, for there is nothing left of his culture. I do suppose  there is an ambassadorship involved as well. 

Spirituality plays into culture as well. Now, there are Avatars that do  integrate other parts of culture into their outfit, but to sever all  ties to one's culture would be cold, and tells the rest of the world  that he or she holds no love for their people, and by proxy, the world  at large.


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> No, I didn't see the post
> 
> Way, way, way, way too posts/debate/fights.
> 
> Which page was it on?





N??ps said:


> I just know you all will appreciate these
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGgzS8kC0h4[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJeD4ErwO04&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]



I hope you all notice them this time.
Advert your attention from DDJ


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I find it funny that
> *2. Associating Jesus with Christmas is lulz^8 power. *



You are joking right? 

Do you not know what "Christ-Mas" is? Before it was turned into "gaining presents"? 
Here: 

Christians do associate Jesus with Christmas. Christians Celebrate Christmas as the birth of Jesus _Christ_.

He could say the same about your set.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 19, 2010)

How could he say the same thing about my set? Mine has nothing to do with holidays, religion, or anything related. 

Do you even know how a reversal of wit works?

Oh, how cute, you linked to wikipedia.

Jesus being born on the 25th is as illogical as him being white and looking like Jim Cavizel.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

@Nøøps:
Thanks, I'll watch em now! :33


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 19, 2010)

Don't you bring this fuckin' bullshit here.

You're just as combative, Terra.  

Don't even start--both of you.

Fuck.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Don't you bring this fuckin' bullshit here.
> 
> You're just as combative, Terra.
> 
> ...



Its better than what's been goin' on. I've been "combative" because of previous attacks from him/her to me out of no where.

But fine, I won't start anything after this. I would still like to hold the comment about him poking fights with DDJ.

The posts about/for/against DDJ have been going on for pages and pages.

I've tried changing the subject a million times xD


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 19, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Its still terrible and funny, and not funny in a good way. Where did I say you had a religious thread? One doesn't have to have a religious or holiday sig for it to be utterly terrible and funny (not in a good way).
> 
> Do you even know about half the stuff you talk about?
> From the looks of it, no, you don't.
> ...


You said this



> He could say the same about your set.



Which doesn't make sense as a retort because I had nothing in my set in relation to DDJ's set.

What exactly have I said in the past few days? Didn't you say you weren't keeping up with the recent posts?

I'm not trying to start fights.

And you misunderstand what I say most of the time, that doesn't mean I know nothing. It's contentious of you in the same way to say I know nothing I talk about. 

And Wikipedia isn't trustworthy, going to the library and studying around yields more information than going to wikipedia.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 19, 2010)

PPPPPPFFFFFF


This isn't the cafe.  This is a nice thread with intelligent people.

Not a vile place for vile children to wax platitudinous.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

@Noops:
The first video won't work for me. I tried going to Youtube to see it, but it says I'm not allowed to view it... :/

@ReikaiDemon:
Okay Reikai, because this post was totally not trying to start something. 

But as Dr. said, let's not bring this "shite" back.


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You said this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cmon Reikai, its DDJ, i know he'll find SOMETHING about your sig to complain about .



> I find it insulting that you would even consider asking me to "fight your brute". What a barbaric request, if not a demand.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

Noops, do you have another link to the first video?

It won't work for me....


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 19, 2010)

Who wants to call what the Cabbage Man will be in Korra?

I'm placing money on Cabbaged-based Franchise.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Who wants to call what the Cabbage Man will be in Korra?
> 
> I'm placing money on Cabbaged-based Franchise.


I'm thinking pumpkins. They can break easily xD

But he might appear as the same Cabbage man.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 19, 2010)

That would be an ancient cabbage man.

The guy was a geezer when the Gaang was in their teens.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm guessing he started a company which is now an EBUL MONOPOLISTIC CORPORATION


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 19, 2010)

Sorry, kind doctor, couldn't see your post before I posted mine, I'll stop, but, one more thing, everyone else, ignore this spoiler


*Spoiler*: __ 



Jesus was never born in winter, the bible proves to the contrary






> I find it insulting that you would even consider asking me to "fight your brute". What a barbaric request, if not a demand.



I dislike the word barbaric, it's a word of racism. 

Anyways, culture is a big theme in Avatar. It's one of Aang's main struggles.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 19, 2010)

Alright, theory time:

Cabbage man had enough of those hooligans and their bullshit.  So while they're away saving the world from the Phoenix King, he slowly starts amassing wealth.  During the 70 years between the series, the Cabbage Man begins a corporate empire that slowly envelops the world, and he begins to enact his revenge with clever social direction, leading the people to the anti-bender sentiment they have when Korra begins.

Cabbage man is the final villain.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> That would be an ancient cabbage man.
> 
> The guy was a geezer when the Gaang was in their teens.



xD

Ooops, I meant with the same theme. Cabbage instead of something else.


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 19, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Alright, theory time:
> 
> Cabbage man had enough of those hooligans and their bullshit.  So while they're away saving the world from the Phoenix King, he slowly starts amassing wealth.  During the 70 years between the series, the Cabbage Man begins a corporate empire that slowly envelops the world, and he begins to enact his revenge with clever social direction, leading the people to the anti-bender sentiment they have when Korra begins.
> 
> Cabbage man is the final villain.



Lol - exactly what I was going to write as I began reading the exchange XD.


----------



## Noah (Dec 19, 2010)

So.....to sum up the last two pages: "Boo hoo hoo."

Sounds about right. 

In other news, I am in full support of Cabbage Man Geese Howard.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

Noah said:


> So.....to sum up the last two pages: "Boo hoo hoo."
> 
> Sounds about right.
> 
> In other news, I am in full support of Cabbage Man Geese Howard.



That seems more like the sum of the last 10-20 pages xD

They probably won't even add a Cabbage Man/Cabbage like man.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 19, 2010)

Lettuce man

Or

Brussel Sprout MAn


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Noops, do you have another link to the first video?
> 
> It won't work for me....



Sorry, i guess it got taken down for legal purposes.

it was a video of a riff on the movie.

Just search on youtube "best of rifftrax the last airbender"


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 19, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Sorry, i guess it got taken down for legal purposes.
> 
> it was a video of a riff on the movie.
> 
> Just search on youtube "best of rifftrax the last airbender"





Oh that has to be the funny video for this movie I've seen so far. 

"He's pushing us back by several feet. Flee in terror!"




Poor Last Airbender...


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2010)

Link removed

To everyone else just follow the link to youtube


----------



## Mider T (Dec 20, 2010)

^

Nah, I think Bryke were were smart to stay with the more spiritual/animalism elements and away from the religious ones.  The closest reference we got was probably in Avatar Day.


----------



## Koi (Dec 20, 2010)

I bet Zuko just kind of slipped in his own birthday as a national holiday.  Just because.

Iroh would have totally had a National Tea Appreciation Day.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 20, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I find that to be very disturbing, Jove. Do you have that ability because you are a moderator? I do not at all feel safe and secure posting on this forum if its members can learn such information about other members.
> 
> Reikai Demon, I know that there is evidence that Jesus may not have been born on December 25, but I also know that the celebration of Christmas was moved to that day because a pagan holiday was celebrated on that day, and early Christians wished to gain more followers for their faith. As for the image of Jesus in the avatar, most cultures have deities who resemble themselves: the Greek deities resembled Greek people, the Norse deities resembled Nordic people, and because I am Caucasian, I prefer a Caucasian Jesus, just as I am certain that African people would prefer an African Jesus or Asian people would prefer an Asian Jesus.
> 
> ...


Probably Kill the Avatar day/Avatar Day in that one town.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 20, 2010)

Koi said:


> I bet Zuko just kind of slipped in his own birthday as a national holiday.  Just because.
> 
> Iroh would have totally had a National Tea Appreciation Day.



xD

I could see Iroh doing that. Not much for Zuko as I don't really know his character much, but I'll go with the people who watch it more than me


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 20, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I find that to be very disturbing, Jove. Do you have that ability because you are a moderator? I do not at all feel safe and secure posting on this forum if its members can learn such information about other members.



That's just a moderator ability. Any forum you join will have the same deal. Mods can always see your IP. I moderate on the Cracked.com forums and it's the same deal. It's generally so you can see if someone has duplicate accounts. 




DemonDragonJ said:


> With that being said, does anyone here believe that it would have been interesting to have a Christmas-themed episode of _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_ I ask this because _The Puppetmaster_ seemed to be a Halloween-themed episode, and both Halloween and Christmas are popular holidays in the United States, the country where this series originated.



Eh, I don't think a Christmas Episode would have worked out all that well. The Halloween ep. was a bit of a stretch as it was, and even then didn't actually have anything to do with Halloween. It was just a creepier then usual episode. A Christmas episode would have been even more awkward to pull off, especially since Christmas is a bit more of a western civilization deal 
anyway (I could be wrong on that, and I'm sure Reikai will correct me). 



DemonDragonJ said:


> While it is true that the Avatar is regarded by many people as the savior of the world, what if there had been a group of people who worshiped the Avatar as a god-like figure and followed him or her with religious zeal? I believe that that may have been an interesting idea for the series. What does everyone else have to say on that subject?



That was one of the things I really liked about the show. Was that Aang was never really seen as that type figure. He's seen more as a protector than a savior.  And if he does get "worshiped", it's only in the vain that a celebrity would, not a religious leader. I think the people kind of have an understanding that, while the Avatar _is_ someone special, he is also just a human being.


Oh, and DDJ, sorry if some of my previous posts seemed a bit mean spirited. It's just my sense of humor. I never meant to make you feel unwanted here. So I'll try to be a little more mindful of how I come across in the future.


----------



## Piekage (Dec 20, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> You crossed it out when you realized you misread "June" as "Jin."



Actually true. No I didn't.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 20, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> That's just a moderator ability. Any forum you join will have the same deal. Mods can always see your IP. I moderate on the Cracked.com forums and it's the same deal. It's generally so you can see if someone has duplicate accounts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, Christmas is basically a western tradition. Winter solstice is  celebrated in many cultures, but the cultures that modern day Christmas  drew upon were mainly the Germanic pagans(the Norse especially) and  Romans. 

Although, there is a Winter Solstice celebration similar to Christmas,  somewhat, which is celebrated amongst the majority of the East Asians.  Though, the similarity is only in that families get together, other than  that, we just make and eat sticky lumps of rice. Basically, if Avatar  were to have a Dongzhi Festival episode, people would seldom think  "Christmas". A New Years episode would be much more relatable.

I think it's kinda stupid to have Christmas episodes in shows where it  just wouldn't make sense. Like the Flintstones for example, or if we  must keep going back to it, Naruto.

I bet some incarnations of the Avatar are celebrated though, like Kyoshi was.


----------



## Koi (Dec 20, 2010)

Hey guys, you know what I won't be doing tonight?

WATERBENDING.


----------



## Superrazien (Dec 20, 2010)

Any idea when they will have more information, maybe even a trailer for the new series?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 20, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Any idea when they will have more information, maybe even *a trailer for the new series*?


Knowing Nickelodeon, probably sometime late 2012.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 20, 2010)

After the premiere?


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 20, 2010)

Mider T said:


> After the premiere?



Most likely.

I rarely saw the Avatar commercials when it was airing and I had my TV on that channel everyday....


----------



## Nimander (Dec 20, 2010)

Koi said:


> Hey guys, you know what I won't be doing tonight?
> 
> WATERBENDING.



I feel both proud and sad that I'm the only one who got this.  

Won't see the lunar eclipse where I live cause of this shitty cloud cover.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 20, 2010)

Yeah, unfortunately it's snowing like crazy in the Chicago area. So no eclipse for me either.


----------



## Friday (Dec 21, 2010)

Wow I was just about to post this "I can't water bend thing" because of the eclipse. Haha. It's nice to know that some Avatar benders are so dedicated that they would also catch this.


----------



## Noah (Dec 21, 2010)

Stupid 100% coverage with complete lack of Christmas snow. 

I wanna be able to not-waterbend too!


----------



## Koi (Dec 21, 2010)

WHO TURNED THE WATERBENDING OFF

GOD DAMMIT

I WAS JUST GOING TO MAKE A LATE-NIGHT ICE SCULPTURE


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 21, 2010)

Haha, I'm an Earthbender, I'm not affected by anything short of being thrown into space.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 21, 2010)

ASTEROID BENDING

AHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Koi (Dec 21, 2010)

..I do wonder if Earthbenders have some sort of supernatural seasonal weakness.  But then again probably not, since they learned from Badgermoles and not the moon.


----------



## Ausorrin (Dec 21, 2010)

With all the pros and cons, earthbending would have to be the best.  You can use it almost anywhere and its durability is great for offence and defense.  It's a shame more waterbenders didn't learn blood bending.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 21, 2010)

I figure earthbending also has the most practical uses. You can make shelter in a snap. Entire buildings even. Create bridges. Pretty much anything construction related. I remember when I was working for a friend, helping him with a six unit condo he was building. It took a a few weeks just to get the pit dug for th foundation (as well as trenches for the footing) an earthbender would have had that done in an hour.


----------



## Ausorrin (Dec 21, 2010)

They also need to learn how to volcano bend.  Apparently, Avatar Roku's weak against smoke and I fail to see how he didn't airbend out of there.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 21, 2010)

Smoke? That gas was toxic and he caught a nice blast of it right to the face.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 21, 2010)

Roku... weak against something? What is this balderdash?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 21, 2010)

With his weakness being gas, Roku would never have survived in the Northern Air Temple and all its natural gas. He might have trouble with even the Foggy Swamp Tribe.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 21, 2010)

True fact, Roku faints when someone farts.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 21, 2010)

Ausorrin said:


> With all the pros and cons, earthbending would have to be the best.  You can use it almost anywhere and its durability is great for offence and defense.  It's a shame more waterbenders didn't learn blood bending.





stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I figure earthbending also has the most practical uses. You can make shelter in a snap. Entire buildings even. Create bridges. Pretty much anything construction related. I remember when I was working for a friend, helping him with a six unit condo he was building. It took a a few weeks just to get the pit dug for th foundation (as well as trenches for the footing) an earthbender would have had that done in an hour.



Earthbending is awesome, yes, but another user pointed out earlier in this thread that earthbenders are the only benders who can be completely separated from their element, such as by bringing them high into the sky or placing them on a platform in the middle of the ocean. From what I observed, most earthbenders, with the exception of Bumi, need to be in contact with the earth to bend it, and again, apart from Bumi, earthbenders need to move their bodies more than any other type of bender to bend their element. Also, earthbending seems to emphasize the movements of the lower body, which contrasts the other three elements, which emphasize the movements of the upper body. This may not automatically be a vulnerability, but if an earthbender's feet are immobilized or attacked, which can be done fairly easily in this universe, they will be rendered powerless or nearly so.


----------



## Burke (Dec 21, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> True fact, Roku faints when someone farts.



This right here ended it. Too funny


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 21, 2010)

I thought everyone's weakness was toxic gas.....


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 22, 2010)

Of course, it all depends on how strong the Earthbender is.

Even if you separate an Earthbender from the Earth, if they were sufficiently strong enough, they could move earth from a distance beneath, or around them.

Then again, any bender, with sufficient strength could overpower any of the other elements.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Earthbending is awesome, yes, but another user pointed out earlier in this thread *that earthbenders are the only benders who can be completely separated from their element, such as by bringing them high into the sky or placing them on a platform in the middle of the ocean. *--



Well, I don't think a lot of Earthbenders will be taken off of solid ground very easily, unless they were children.


----------



## Koi (Dec 22, 2010)

Well, with only one airbender around I don't think they have to worry much about that anyway.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 22, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Well, I don't think a lot of Earthbenders will be taken off of solid ground very easily, unless they were children.



Perhaps that is true, but I was being completely hypothetical in my earlier statement, so I imagine that it is not relevant whether or not an earthbender could be easily separated from the ground.


----------



## Burke (Dec 22, 2010)

Did everyone get to see the videos i posted


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> earthbenders are the only benders who can be completely separated from their element,


 Airbenders in space.


----------



## Adonis (Dec 22, 2010)

Couldn't an earthbender pull a Gaara and carry around earth in a gourd like Katara carries her water in her cask-bottle thingy?

Likewise, couldn't a talented earthbender move around through the ground as if it were water? There was a Mole dude who fought Toph like this in the tournament episode and one of the Earth kings sank Katara into the ground as if it were water when trying to instigate Aang's avatar state. Why not earthbend from underground? You'd be untouchable until you had to come up for air.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 22, 2010)

Snow Miser said:


> Airbenders in space.



Yes, I did forget about that, but in a world inspired by, and modeled after, ancient China, I highly doubt that any travel to outer space will be occurring at any point in the near future, so the idea of an airbender being powerless in outer space is not of the greatest importance currently.


----------



## ElementX (Dec 22, 2010)

Did anyone else want to see more Plantbending? I thought it could have been taken farther than just bending seaweed and swamp vines, but I guess they couldn't take it _too_ far without it getting ridiculous.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I did forget about that, but in a world inspired by, and modeled after, ancient China, I highly doubt that any travel to outer space will be occurring at any point in the near future, so the idea of an airbender being powerless in outer space is not of the greatest importance currently.


Unless if rocket chairs worked.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 22, 2010)

> Airbenders in space.


That's true...but how does one go about in the Avatar universe, getting into space? And why would they want to....?

I was under the impression they never set foot in space, and I never thought about them knowing there was no air in space... 


>.<


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 22, 2010)

Perhaps Airbending is manipulating a difference in pressure. They might be able to cope in a vacuum. Although temperature would be a different story.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 22, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I did forget about that, but in a world inspired by, and modeled after, ancient China, I highly doubt that any travel to outer space will be occurring at any point in the near future, so the idea of an airbender being powerless in outer space is not of the greatest importance currently.


Then plop the Airbender in the ocean.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 22, 2010)

Oh Snow Miser, I love your set pek

Ahem, anyway! I meant to post this last night, but I was too tired (haven't slept in days):



Noah said:


> Stupid 100% coverage with complete lack of Christmas snow.
> 
> I wanna be able to not-waterbend too!



Why don't you want to be able to waterbend?  

You should be afraid of not having a moon, waterbender!


----------



## Koi (Dec 22, 2010)

All this holiday renaming is confusing. D8


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 22, 2010)

Koi said:


> All this holiday renaming is confusing. D8



Holiday renaming? What do you mean?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2010)

Probably for the staff.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Why don't you want to be able to waterbend?
> 
> You should be afraid of not having a moon, waterbender!


You're supporting another bending discipline?! :legasp


Koi said:


> All this holiday renaming is confusing. D8


Mods aren't allowed to be festive?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2010)

Your join dates and post counts don't lie

Unless you're Hollie


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Your join dates and post counts don't lie


I also have Snow Miser "in your throats, suckin' your bloods." Gives him a whole new shade of creepy.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 23, 2010)

Snow Miser said:


> You're supporting another bending discipline?! :legasp
> Mods aren't allowed to be festive?



No, just sayin. If they are waterbenders, why would they not want to waterbend? xD


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> No, just sayin. If they are waterbenders, why would they not want to waterbend? xD


[See: Jeong Jeong]


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 23, 2010)

Snow Miser said:


> [See: Jeong Jeong]



I'm not Jeong Jeong. I'm me, the second best Earthbender 

I love my bending element. Just amazed me that waterbenders don't like their element 

And sadly, I didn't know who Jeong Jeong was by the name. I thought you were talking about the firebender, but I thought his name was something entirely different xD


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I'm not Jeong Jeong. I'm me, the second best Earthbender
> 
> I love my bending element. Just amazed me that waterbenders don't like their element



Jeong Jeong is a Firebender who hates Firebending (to a degree). He sees it as a tool of only destruction. A Waterbender could see Waterbending the same way, especially the men of the Northern Water Tribe.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 23, 2010)

Half of all benders in the Northern Water Tribe dedicate themselves solely to healing.
If any emo destruction waterbenders pop up you just have to point at them and say ''Look at all the freaking healers dipshit.'' to stamp it out.

Doesn't work that well with firebending.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Perhaps Airbending is manipulating a difference in pressure. .



Too far. I expect better from you, Rekky.


----------



## Burke (Dec 23, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> Half of all benders in the Northern Water Tribe dedicate themselves solely to healing.
> If any emo destruction waterbenders pop up you just have to point at them and say ''Look at all the freaking healers dipshit.'' to stamp it out.
> 
> Doesn't work that well with firebending.



Yes, but there could be the sorts of people who dont waterbend, because they like prefer a sword, and view waterbending as i dunno cheating or... not civil... kinda like how Obi Wan feels about blasters


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 23, 2010)

Peanut butter and Chocolate go great together. Science and magic Kung fu... not so much.

Please stop trying to mix the two. They taste terrible together.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 23, 2010)

Now I'm imagining firebenders using firebending to heal people

''His leg is broken, do something!!''
''OUT OF THE WAY I GOT THIS!''
FWOOSH!


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 23, 2010)

Or, you know, that fire essentially makes human civilization possible.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 23, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Too far. I expect better from you, Rekky.


Too much DDJ?


----------



## Burke (Dec 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Too much DDJ?



Just a bit, i think you need a bit more Jove in your posts.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 23, 2010)

I been awesome far too long, cut me a break


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 23, 2010)

I think Nicktoons are on their 53rd Avatar marathon since the show ended. That channel loves them some Aang. No joke I actually counted 12 airings of Avatar from 12am-12pm...that was a regular broadcasting day, folks. Nick prime can't be bothered to air episodes of their first(and only) action/adventure show even once.
I'm just thinking that it can't be that much of a ratings sinkhole if their sister service channel airs it that much.


----------



## tsunadefan (Dec 23, 2010)

oh wow! 1011 pages of just talking about avatar!!


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2010)

NO WAI!!!!!!11


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 23, 2010)

lol we don't talk about avatar in here


----------



## tsunadefan (Dec 23, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> lol we don't talk about avatar in here



wait! this is "avatar the last air bender" discussions, right?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 23, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> wait! this is "avatar the last air bender" discussions, right?


No, this is Avatar by James Cameron.

Specifically, this is about how it rips off James Cameron, and how much TLA sucks.

Lets get back on track.

Man, I hate Avatar the Last Airbender, it has an original story, and that pisses me off. I hate original stories, I wanna be spoonfed the same goodness that has been done forever.


----------



## tsunadefan (Dec 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> No, this is Avatar by James Cameron.
> 
> Specifically, this is about how it rips off James Cameron, and how much TLA sucks.
> 
> ...



there was an avatar like this created before? what is TLA? you hate original stories?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> there was an avatar like this created before? what is TLA? you hate original stories?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> there was an avatar like this created before? what is TLA? you hate original stories?



We can't stand original stories in here.  You either like blue furries or gtfo.


----------



## tsunadefan (Dec 23, 2010)

???? that explains a lot....


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 23, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> there was an avatar like this created before? what is TLA? you hate original stories?



He was being sarcastic, Tsunadefan


----------



## The Potential (Dec 23, 2010)

Gotta love sarcasm.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> there was an avatar like this created before? what is TLA?


James Cameron's movie Avatar came out before the movie for the series Avatar: The Last Airbender, and to prevent confusion between the two movies, the movie was renamed The Last Airbender (TLA).


> you hate original stories?


Sarcasm, sweetie.


----------



## tsunadefan (Dec 23, 2010)

ooohhhh!!! lol! why he gotta pull my leg?!?! lol. i kinda had a feeling when the guy behind kaley cuoco held up a sign reading "sarcasm" on the paper. lol. and this thread is about the movie? not the anime?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> ooohhhh!!! lol! why he gotta pull my leg?!?! lol. i kinda had a feeling when the guy behind kaley cuoco held up a sign reading "sarcasm" on the paper. lol. and this thread is about the movie? not the anime?


No, the thread is largely about the cartoon, not an anime. There was a stint with it being about the movie.

And yes, we are aware of the coming second series, Avatar: Legend of Korra.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 23, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> ooohhhh!!! lol! why he gotta pull my leg?!?! lol. i kinda had a feeling when the guy behind kaley cuoco held up a sign reading "sarcasm" on the paper. lol. and this thread is about the movie? not the anime?



Its about them both, but a lot of people here hated the movie...


----------



## The Potential (Dec 23, 2010)

Yes, for we love the movie..


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 23, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Yes, for we love the movie..



...

I liked it


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> ...
> 
> I liked it


So did one of my roommates. Though he doesn't really have an appreciation for the show.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 23, 2010)

Snow Miser said:


> So did one of my roommates. Though he doesn't really have an appreciation for the show.



He didn't like the show? 

Weird...I haven't met someone who liked the movie and hated the show xD


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> He didn't like the show?
> 
> Weird...I haven't met someone who liked the movie and hated the show xD


It's not that he hated the show; he's simply only seen parts of one or two episodes. So he had nothing to really judge the movie against.


----------



## tsunadefan (Dec 23, 2010)

oh ok. the movie was ok.a little too much changes though.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 23, 2010)

Snow Miser said:


> It's not that he hated the show; he's simply only seen parts of one or two episodes. So he had nothing to really judge the movie against.



Oh, okay xD

You should tie him to a chair and force him to watch.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 23, 2010)

Hey, whut are you guys doing having an Avatar discussion in mah Avatar discussion?!


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm betting there will be one surviving from the original series and her name will be 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Kanna


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 23, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I'm betting there will be one surviving from the original series and her name will be
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...





She'd be so old!


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> She'd be so old!



That's my Xmas presents to you guys


----------



## Burke (Dec 23, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Hey, whut are you guys doing having an Avatar discussion in mah Avatar discussion?!


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 24, 2010)

Mider T said:


> That's my Xmas presents to you guys



xD

Oh that troll face is genius.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 24, 2010)

tsunadefan said:


> wait! this is "avatar the last air bender" discussions, right?





ReikaiDemon said:


> Hey, whut are you guys doing having an Avatar discussion in mah Avatar discussion?!




As you can see, this is the "Avatar: The Last Airbender" Discusion thread. Rekky, you're in a slump.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 24, 2010)

It's funny, cause whenever I come in here the conversation usually isn't Avatar related, lol.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 24, 2010)

That's even funnier to me because it's always Avatar-related. I guess we really have developed our own language-game in this thread.


----------



## Burke (Dec 24, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> As you can see, this is the "Avatar: The Last Airbender" Discusion thread. Rekky, you're in a slump.



by "Nickelodean"


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 24, 2010)

Hey, Dimez' rush to create a topic has become our own little distinctive thing.
Those spelling errors will always remain.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 24, 2010)

I can only think of two times where the topic wasn't on Avatar.

This has to be the most on-topic thread in this forum xD

P.S
Merry Christmas guys! :33 I hope you have a beautiful day!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 24, 2010)

We don't celebrate Christmas here 

We celebrate Avatar Day


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 25, 2010)

Merry Christmas, Avatarlings.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 25, 2010)

Merry Christmas!
​


----------



## Noah (Dec 25, 2010)

Merry Christmas! May you gain similar presents to what Aang got!


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 25, 2010)

Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas!


----------



## Burke (Dec 25, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Merry Christmas, Avatarlings.



Im so getting a set



Snow Miser said:


> Merry Christmas!
> ​



YEAH, oh wait its coal.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 25, 2010)

(Its actually Christmas day now...so Merry Christmas!)

Oh! Doesn't anyone have any more Christmas Avvy pics?


----------



## Wan (Dec 26, 2010)

Merry slightly belated Christmas everyone!  I got the art book as a gift and it is awesome.  All the concept art and line drawings are great, and the stories about the creation of the show and the ideas that went into the episodes are fantastic as well.  Turns out, Sifu Kisu was not the only guy who worked on Avatar that got an animated incarnation.  We just all recognize him because we've seen him so much.

I find the foreword by M. Night Shymalan to be highly ironic.  And on that note, typing "the last airbender" into a Google news search will get a lot of 10 worst movies of the year lists.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 26, 2010)

Merry Christmas, Mordin Solus! :33

You got the art book? Oh, awesome! How much did it contain? Was it mega awesome? Did it have many pages? pek


----------



## Wan (Dec 26, 2010)

Mega, MEGA awesome.  It's 184 pages, has a 24 page chapter detailing the creation of the show from when Mike and Bryan first met, through their pitch to Eric Coleman at Nickelodeon (sounds like an awesome guy, btw), to the conception of the characters, all the way to when they spent 4 months in South Korea making the pilot episode.  It goes through episode by episode, giving at least a page to each episode but often more.  Sozin's Comet has 10 pages.  There's a 10 page section in the back for ancillary art (the DVD cases, promotional art, comics, etc.)  It's also hardcover with thick, quality pages!

I heartily recommend it to ANYONE who is a fan of Avatar: TLA.


----------



## Burke (Dec 26, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Merry slightly belated Christmas everyone!  I got the art book as a gift and it is awesome.  All the concept art and line drawings are great, and the stories about the creation of the show and the ideas that went into the episodes are fantastic as well.  Turns out, Sifu Kisu was not the only guy who worked on Avatar that got an animated incarnation.  We just all recognize him because we've seen him so much.
> 
> I find the foreword by M. Night Shymalan to be highly ironic.  And on that note, typing "the last airbender" into a Google news search will get a lot of 10 worst movies of the year lists.



He got a reincarnation? 

...

Piandao?

Who else got a reincarnation.


----------



## Wan (Dec 26, 2010)

Yes, Piandao.  Let's see...June is supposed to be modeled after the postproduction supervisor, Lisa Yang.  Jeong Jeong is based on the president of DR Movie, one of the Korean production studios that worked on Avatar.  Due and Tho (the swampbenders) are modeled after Doug TenNapel and Carlos Ramos, the creators of the Nickelodeon shows Catscratch and The X's, respectively.  Joo Dee was based on the "infinitely chipper" line producer Miken Wong.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 26, 2010)

It is now my life's goal to find and marry their post-production supervisor.


----------



## Burke (Dec 26, 2010)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> It is now my life's goal to find and marry their post-production supervisor.



To the internet!


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 26, 2010)

I know....you guys don't like the movie, but I watched the DVD today (looked a lot better on my TV than in the theaters) and I got to thinking that I really want to see another, or at least a reboot. I still enjoyed it except that pathetic part with the Earthbenders (ugh!).

I'm really, really interested in seeing Azula's actress and who they will pick for Toph (who better be good!) and how much they will make sure they get right. Maybe M.Night will allow others to work on the script or whatnot and help more than before.

I don't know why I suddenly got excited. I just really want to see a sequel xD

I'd like to ask a question though and I ask if y ou could answer it honestly? The movie took $150 million to make it and it grossed $319,038,279. Do you guys see another coming? Pretend its not this movie getting another one, but something else that was really good, do you think these numbers will call for another movie...?

(Yes, I know, no one really liked it...I'm just expressing my fandom )


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 26, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> but I watched the DVD today (looked a lot better on my TV than in the theaters)


Did you see it in 3D? That could be why.


> and I got to thinking that I really want to see another, or at least a reboot. I still enjoyed it except that pathetic part with the Earthbenders (ugh!).
> 
> I'm really, really interested in seeing Azula's actress and who they will pick for Toph (who better be good!) and how much they will make sure they get right. Maybe M.Night will allow others to work on the script or whatnot and help more than before.


I'd rather M. Night not be involved at all.

I would like to see a movie(s) about Book 2.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 26, 2010)

Nah, 3D makes me and my sister really sick, so we didn't see it in 3D. The screen was really stretched and foggy. It was really ugly xD

I'd rather he not be involve as well, unless he really, really increases his talent and makes the second a lot better. Like Lord of the Rings :33

Oh, Toph would be so awesome to see! I wonder who they'd get to play her? I've been searchin' lately for names or little girls who might know how to do Martial Arts (Like Noah) but I haven't found any yet


----------



## The Potential (Dec 26, 2010)

M. Night would make Toph a man. You know, cause it sounds like tough. I'm sure he is sexiest...


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 26, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> M. Night would make Toph a man. You know, cause it sounds like tough. I'm sure he is sexiest...



No, I think he would make her the best. If he loves Suki and the Earth Kingdom the way he expresses, then he will do fine with them. He loved Suki so much, he decided she needed much more time xD

But you never know. I just hope they keep her the same. I will hate him forever (not as a person, as a movie maker xD) if he changed her.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 26, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Nah, 3D makes me and my sister really sick, so we didn't see it in 3D. The screen was really stretched and foggy. It was really ugly xD


Guess it was just the movie theater then.


> I'd rather he not be involve as well, unless he really, really increases his talent and makes the second a lot better.


There is wishful thinking and then there is _wishful thinking_.


----------



## The Potential (Dec 26, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> No, I think he would make her the best. If he loves Suki and the Earth Kingdom the way he expresses, then he will do fine with them. He loved Suki so much, he decided she needed much more time xD
> 
> But you never know. I just hope they keep her the same. I will hate him forever (not as a person, as a movie maker xD) if he changed her.



Don't set your hopes to high sweetheart.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 26, 2010)

Snow Miser said:


> Guess it was just the movie theater then.
> There is wishful thinking and then there is _wishful thinking_.





Stark042 said:


> Don't set your hopes to high sweetheart.



Oh, you guys need to have a little faith! :33

Its very hard to make a great movie, let alone good. It takes the greatest (Director of LotR) to make the greatest. M.Night needs practice, he's been in a slump lately.


----------



## The Potential (Dec 26, 2010)

I thought, *Devil* was good.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 26, 2010)

The world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is modeled mostly after ancient mainland Asia, although there are some exceptions, such as the water tribes being inspired by Inuit people (who are Native Americans), the foggy swamp tribe being (apparently) modeled after people of the southern United States, and the Sun Warriors being modeled after both Native Americans such as the Aztecs or Mayans and also southeast Asian cultures. None of those people in actuality have fair skin, fair hair, or eyes any color other than very dark brown, with very rare exceptions. Therefore, I find it interesting that while people in this series can have gray, blue, green, or gold eyes, there are no people with red or blonde hair. What does everyone else have to say about that?

Also, because the animals of this series are almost certainly hybrids of animals from actuality, is it not interesting that there are no human hybrids or humans with unusual traits? Although the world is vast and varied already, I would not have had a problem with seeing humans different from what I would consider to be "normal."

Was anyone ever annoyed by Sokka's sarcasm and skepticism? While his personality would have been tolerable if he was not in every episode, the fact that I had to endure his sarcastic and cynical personality in _every episode_ was rather annoying, at least to me. What does everyone else have to say about that?


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 26, 2010)

I loved Sokka's attitude. It was great in each and every episode :33

And when you put his awesomeness together with Toph's attitude, you get a whole bunch of funnies xD

Sokka is the only character that could actually pull this type of character off. So I loved it, never annoyed. I have to say that I was a bit annoyed (or rather...bored?) with all the enforcement of Zuko. Or at least I felt like they were forcing him on the show...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, because the animals of this series are almost certainly hybrids of animals from actuality, is it not interesting that there are no human hybrids or humans with unusual traits? Although the world is vast and varied already, I would not have had a problem with seeing humans different from what I would consider to be "normal."


Oh...Oh GOD NO. Ugh, just...No....No....NO!


Anyways, happy Boxing Day, well, at least for a few hours more for some of us


----------



## The Potential (Dec 27, 2010)

Sokka is one of my favorite characters. Nuff said!


----------



## Burke (Dec 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, because the animals of this series are almost certainly hybrids of animals from actuality, is it not interesting that there are no human hybrids or humans with unusual traits? Although the world is vast and varied already, I would not have had a problem with seeing humans different from what I would consider to be "normal."



Yeah like humans who can shoot fire from their hands, or control the air around them.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Yeah like humans who can shoot fire from their hands, or control the air around them.



I know you weren't being serious about this, but I think he means, for example, humans with dog ears or some other difference in the humans the way they included it into the animals.

If that makes sense xD

(so sorta like the races in FF12...? Right, DDJ? >.<)


----------



## Burke (Dec 27, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I know you weren't being serious about this, but I think he means, for example, humans with dog ears or some other difference in the humans the way they included it into the animals.
> 
> If that makes sense xD
> 
> (so sorta like the races in FF12...? Right, DDJ? >.<)



OH! So i guess DDJ is a furry.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

N??ps said:


> OH! So i guess DDJ is a furry.


>.<

I'm just postin' what I gathered from the post.

I like dragon-people and wolf-people, so, maybe I'm the whatever that is


----------



## Burke (Dec 27, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> >.<
> 
> I'm just postin' what I gathered from the post.
> 
> I like dragon-people and wolf-people, so, maybe I'm the whatever that is



Wolf people are usually the default furries for women


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Therefore, I find it interesting that while people in this series can have gray, blue, green, or gold eyes, there are no people with red or blonde hair.


Hmm, I'd have to go back and look; I'm sure the Airbenders shaving their heads throws this off a bit though.

And Suki's always seemed reddish to me.


> the fact that I had to endure his cynical personality in _every episode_ was rather annoying, at least to me.


Well, if opposites attract...


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

N??ps said:


> Wolf people are usually the default furries for women



They are? 

I thought it was because I just adore that animal :33
Oh snap, now I need my Native American set back xD

(I'll save my set for next year )


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 27, 2010)

so whens this legend of Korra 'posta air?


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> so whens this legend of Korra 'posta air?



2011, the end of the year. Or that's what the post said a few pages back....


----------



## The Potential (Dec 27, 2010)

Snow Miser said:


> Well, if opposites attract...



Oh no he dident.


*Spoiler*: __ 



:rofl


----------



## Shade (Dec 27, 2010)

An Avatar MMORPG actually wouldn't be too bad, if done right. You have a rich history, a large spectrum of locations with the world already mapped out, various MMO type creatures and best of all, a ton of room to expand on everything. I'm sure the idea is old but if Korra is as successful as ATLA, Nick should let a good game developer make it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

Shade said:


> An Avatar MMORPG actually wouldn't be too bad, if done right. You have a rich history, a large spectrum of locations with the world already mapped out, various MMO type creatures and best of all, a ton of room to expand on everything. I'm sure the idea is old but if Korra is as successful as ATLA, Nick should let a good game developer make it.



Oh that would be awesome! :33

Especially if it took the route the DBO is taking and allows you to create your character 

EDIT:
xD

If you check the post count for the thread, it says "toomany". 
ustream.tv/channel/lightweightheavy-radio


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 27, 2010)

4 factions, each vying for supremacy...i could dig it...


----------



## The Potential (Dec 27, 2010)

Those types of games are more for adults are they not? Nick is trying to appeal to little boys and girls. Not us, honestly.

Avatar:TLA's world does fit very well with a game like that though.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

Stark042 said:


> Those types of games are more for adults are they not? Nick is trying to appeal to little boys and girls. Not us, honestly.
> 
> Avatar:TLA's world does fit very well with a game like that though.



If they made it like DBO, which appeals to children/kids/teens, then it would be successful for Avatar as well C:


----------



## The Potential (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm not familiar with your acronyms..


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 27, 2010)

Dragon Ball Online...

you can be Human/Saiyan, Dragon race or a Majin...


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> .* I am searching for a woman who will be essentially a female version of myself,* although I know that such a woman will be difficult to locate, so I may settle for a woman who is very similar to me.



trust me, that shits not all its cracked up to be...it will get pretty boring and/or annoying _reeaaaal_ quick.


----------



## Noah (Dec 27, 2010)

Working robo-women don't exist yet? :rimshot


----------



## The Potential (Dec 27, 2010)

A relationship without emotion................


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 27, 2010)

Noah said:


> Working robo-women don't exist yet? :rimshot





Stark042 said:


> A relationship without emotion................



_I'm going to insert my penis into your vagina now.

yes, please do, I think it might be pleasurable._


----------



## The Potential (Dec 27, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> _I'm going to insert my penis into your vagina now.
> 
> yes, please do, I think it might be pleasurable._



:rofl That sounds like no fun at all.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 27, 2010)

why is :rimshot not a smilie yet?


----------



## Burke (Dec 27, 2010)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> why is :rimshot not a smilie yet?



:fapfapfap


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> Dragon Ball Online...
> 
> you can be Human/Saiyan, Dragon race or a Majin...



Oh you know about DBO? 

What the heckle are we talkin' about now?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I noticed that at least two of the Air Temples were single-sex communities, with only men in one and only women in another. I find this to be very odd, as the Air Nomads seemed to be very open-minded people who promoted freedom of thought. Why would they practice such segregation? The most likely reason is to prevent amorous relationships, but if the Air Nomads are liberal and open-minded, why would they care what their students do in their spare time?
> 
> 
> 
> I did not mean that I wish for a woman who is _identical_ to me, but I do wish for one who is very similar to me, especially in terms of personal preferences and political and social beliefs.




They're monks.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 27, 2010)

Honestly, that's as stupid as asking why there aren't nuns in a monastery for monks and friars.

I'm sure there's also a neat yin and yang reference to which temples are for the female monks.

Plus they each visit other temples, they're not completely excluded from each other.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 27, 2010)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> They're monks.



What does that mean? Does being a monk automatically mean that a person takes a vow of celibacy?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm sure they realized they had to procreate at some point, but living together like IRL is a distraction from their duties.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What does that mean? Does being a monk automatically mean that a person takes a vow of celibacy?



Here ya go, Demon 

It might have reasons why. I'm sure there is :>

A Monk is a male giving his live to contemplation and prayers. So he dedicates his life to religious services.


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 27, 2010)

I wonder if newborn Air Nomad are separated from their parents at birth? Gyatso was Aang's guardian, and Zuko said Aang wouldn't know of fathers, since he was raised by monks. 

I wonder what's up with all that?


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 27, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> I wonder if newborn Air Nomad are separated from their parents at birth? Gyatso was Aang's guardian, and Zuko said Aang wouldn't know of fathers, since he was raised by monks.
> 
> I wonder what's up with all that?



He was probably an orphan....


----------



## Wan (Dec 28, 2010)

Finally! The art book names the Fire Nation capital as "Royal Caldera City". It always annoyed me that the capital was never named in the show.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 28, 2010)

Gaaahhh.......

Royal Caldera City? Huh? If it wasn't mentioned in the show, how'd ya know about it? 

Well, that is another piece of new information xD


----------



## Wan (Dec 28, 2010)

As I said, it was named in the art book.

Your set...it's from the Resident Evil movies?  I'm getting a bad feeling about your taste in movies...


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 28, 2010)

But when did the art book come out? Recently? If so, how did you know? (Sorry, I messed up what I meant xD)

Resident Evil Afterlife, yes. I thought it was a fantastic movie, and the gross it made certainly tells me that as well considering it took 60 million to make and made loads more. 
I love the movies...well, the one when they were in the Nevada Desert wasn't that great...

Who doesn't love RE movies?  Alice is badass!


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 28, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> He was probably an orphan....


Air nomad sperm is carried on the wind and as such, all air nomad fathers are anonymous.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 28, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> As I said, it was named in the art book.


I've been meaning to get my hands on one of those.


> Your set...it's from the Resident Evil movies?  I'm getting a bad feeling about your taste in movies...


There's nothing wrong with a little Milla Jovovich running about.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 28, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> Air nomad sperm is carried on the wind and as such, all air nomad fathers are anonymous.



xD
Oh dear! Who carries the Air nomad sperm for 9 months then? The female Monastics? Or does it follow the sperm's example and begin to form life in the air? 



Snow Miser said:


> There's nothing wrong with a little Milla Jovovich running about.


pek

There is never enough Milla and Alice! pek


----------



## Wan (Dec 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> But when did the art book come out? Recently? If so, how did you know? (Sorry, I messed up what I meant xD)



It was published back in the summer.





> Resident Evil Afterlife, yes. I thought it was a fantastic movie, and the gross it made certainly tells me that as well considering it took 60 million to make and made loads more.
> I love the movies...well, the one when they were in the Nevada Desert wasn't that great...



Popularity does _not_ prove that a movie has quality.  Hello, Twilight.  Hello, Transformers 2.  Hello, James Cameron's blasphemy.



> Who doesn't love RE movies?  Alice is badass!





But then, don't take me seriously.  I'm just poking fun at the fact that you like both TLA and RE:A.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 29, 2010)

Ah, I thought you knew before the art book was being made. I was like "wat?!" >.<



Mordin Solus said:


> Popularity does _not_ prove that a movie has quality.  Hello, Twilight.  Hello, Transformers 2.  Hello, James Cameron's blasphemy.
> 
> But then, don't take me seriously.  I'm just poking fun at the fact that you like both TLA and RE:A.



*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm terribly sorry, but I couldn't care less, really, what rottentomatoes say. Sorry xD

Yes, those movies aren't very good. But who can judge what's good and what's bad? Some find it bad and some find it good. If I followed RottenTomatoes or some other person for believing a movie is bad, I'd be no different than a tool and a fool. People hated DragonHeart and its a brilliant movie! 

RE Afterlife is a fantastic movie. People didn't like it because it make a woman stronger than a man (they can deny it all they want) and wasn't "as" epic as the video games. They can stop their whining about that! Of course nothing could be "as" good as the games.

Besides, it made WAY too much money for it being "bad". Way too much.

 why do you wanna poke fun at me?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 29, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> As I said, it was named in the art book.
> 
> Your set...it's from the Resident Evil movies?  I'm getting a bad feeling about your taste in movies...


Yeah, seriously <_<


----------



## Wan (Dec 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Ah, I thought you knew before the art book was being made. I was like "wat?!" >.<



No, I found out by reading the art book.


> I'm terribly sorry, but I couldn't care less, really, what rottentomatoes say. Sorry xD



Yeah, but you asked who doesn't love RE movies.  The answer: critics.  But that doesn't mean that you have to agree with them. 



> Yes, those movies aren't very good. But who can judge what's good and what's bad? Some find it bad and some find it good. If I followed RottenTomatoes or some other person for believing a movie is bad, I'd be no different than a tool and a fool. People hated DragonHeart and its a brilliant movie!



Certain things can be judged objectively about a movie.  How natural the writing sounds, how original the plot is, how believable the acting is, how much of the movie contributes to the plot and how much is just padding and filler.  Whether or not each quality is good or bad -- and whether or not the movie is good or bad on whole -- is a matter of opinion.



> RE Afterlife is a fantastic movie. People didn't like it because it make a woman stronger than a man (they can deny it all they want) and wasn't "as" epic as the video games. They can stop their whining about that! Of course nothing could be "as" good as the games.



Seriously? You're blaming bad reviews on...sexism? 

If so, why did Salt, in which the main character was also female, get a  than RE: Afterlife, despite being released in the same summer?  Also, I'm pretty sure most critics have never played an RE game to compare the movie to.



> Besides, it made WAY too much money for it being "bad". Way too much.



Twilight is a good movie now!  It made way too much money to deserve the mockery it gets on a daily basis!  Also, Justin Bieber is a genius musician!



> why do you wanna poke fun at me?



Because when you cry, the universe weeps with you.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 29, 2010)

@Mordin Solus:
It wasn't a question you were supposed to answer. 

All the people I've meet admitted it was because she was "too strong" and way stronger than all the males in the movie. I'm only telling you why they feel that way. Of course they won't admit it on a review. But when the 50 people I've met so far has told me that's the reason, it is enough xD

But when you make me cry, I get really sad


----------



## Noah (Dec 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> Yes, those movies aren't very good. But who can judge what's good and what's bad? Some find it bad and some find it good. *If I followed RottenTomatoes or some other person for believing a movie is bad, I'd be no different than a tool and a fool.* People hated DragonHeart and its a brilliant movie!
> 
> RE Afterlife is a fantastic movie. *People didn't like it because it make a woman stronger than a man* (they can deny it all they want) and wasn't "as" epic as the video games. They can stop their whining about that! Of course nothing could be "as" good as the games.
> 
> ...



1. If you listened to RottenTomatos, it means you'd agree with most of the professionals who know wtf makes a good or, at the very least, an entertaining movie. A tool and a fool would make a statement like the third bolded part. 

2. Lol. People hate it because it's Paul W.S. Anderson doing what he does best: Taking a dump on film, putting his woman in the middle of it and adding a nu-metal soundtrack to it. That guy hasn't made a single good movie. And, unfortunately, I'm including MK1 in that statement.

3. lollerskating roflcopters. Clearly you've never seen a parody movie post-Scary Movie 1, because they make an ungodly amount of money.


EDIT:





> All the people I've meet admitted it was because she was "too strong" and way stronger than all the males in the movie. I'm only telling you why they feel that way. Of course they won't admit it on a review. But when the 50 people I've met so far has told me that's the reason, it is enough xD



It's not because she's too strong that they say that. It's because shes the very embodiment of a Mary Sue.


----------



## Wan (Dec 29, 2010)

It can't be the source of the sour critical reception.  Need I remind you about Final Fantasy VI?  The very character your username is named after is more powerful in magic than any of the rest of the party.  Yet it continues to be considered one of the best FF games.  Sexism isn't why critics would call a movie bad.

Your sadness...it moves humanity into making the world a better place.  Thus do I poke fun at you, for the greater good of all.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 29, 2010)

@Noah:
I've seen that movie. A lot of people find it funny, that's most likely why they went to see it.

So I should just follow suit and like what you guys like and hate what you hate and completely disregard what I find entertaining? 

Why are you all picking on me?! 

I like my movies. RE: Afterlife is good! The action, the 3D, the acting, the script. It was good. Good I tell you! And then there was the spaz who said it wasn't original. No shite Sherlock, its a ZOMBIE movie. Those aren't ever going to be original 

As I said before, no one can judge what's good or what's bad. A lot of people hate the Inheritance Cycle and its a great series. A lot of people hate things just to hate them. A lot of people hate Harry Potter and LOADS of people disagree. You can't be the one to say what's good or what's bad. You just can't be.

No one person or group is in charge of that.

@Mordin Solus:
They were upset that a woman was stronger and wasn't even a character in the games. I'm just telling you what the haters have told me 

Yes, that's not always a reason, yes. But in this case, they were angry Alice was a badass and the males weren't...

Besides, Terra Branford is part Esper, she is a Hybrid. Of course she'd be better than her team in magic. That's also a reason why Alice is stronger than the males, yet they were upset about it....


----------



## Wan (Dec 29, 2010)

Badass females are fine as long as the movie they are in doesn't suffer.  A _twelve year old_ female badass works (Toph).  But they can't hold up a movie by themselves.

Now, I haven't played any RE game or seen the movies, but introducing a whole new character that wasn't in the games would annoy me, regardless of gender.  How would you feel if M. Night Shyamalan had introduced some new "Second Avatar" that went and kicked the Fire Lord's ass while Aang & co were wandering around?


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 29, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Badass females are fine as long as the movie they are in doesn't suffer.  A _twelve year old_ female badass works (Toph).  But they can't hold up a movie by themselves.
> 
> Now, I haven't played any RE game or seen the movies, but introducing a whole new character that wasn't in the games would annoy me, regardless of gender.  How would you feel if M. Night Shyamalan had introduced some new "Second Avatar" that went and kicked the Fire Lord's ass while Aang & co were wandering around?


That is completely different. Alice isn't like adding a new Avatar to Avatar to replace Aang. Alice is a character designed by them. She's not taking away from the other characters, who are seen in the movie. Chris, Claire, Jill, Wesker and the rest. She's a great character and she's awesome. She gets screwed over my Umbrella so naturally, she wants her revenge 

You haven't seen the movies or played the games? Huh wha? You should totally play the games and then see the movies. The third movie isn't that good, I admit, but Afterlife and the first are fantastic. :33


----------



## Wan (Dec 29, 2010)

Meh, the survival horror genre of games isn't really my cup of tea.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 29, 2010)

Wait, is someone seriously arguing FOR a Mary Sue character?

Wish fulfillment much? >_>

I mean, even with RE's cheesy writing, at least the characters are grounded enough, and human to be believable. At least before the huge change in direction for the series.

I won't get into this because it's opinion on opinion, but I will get on it because it is terrible writing.


----------



## Noah (Dec 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> @Noah:
> I've seen that movie. A lot of people find it funny, that's most likely why they went to see it.



Post SM1. Meaning, after that. The original Scary Movie was the last truly funny parody movie, but every [Genre] Movie that has come out since makes money hand over fist.




> So I should just follow suit and like what you guys like and hate what you hate and completely disregard what I find entertaining?



Absolutely.



> Why are you all picking on me?!



If you can give us 62 reasons not to, we'll stop.



> I like my movies. RE: Afterlife is good! The action, the 3D, the acting, the script. It was good. Good I tell you! And then there was the spaz who said it wasn't original. No shite Sherlock, its a ZOMBIE movie. Those aren't ever going to be original



I'll let this argument slide, based solely on the fact that you're young and your taste will hopefully develop with age.



> As I said before, no one can judge what's good or what's bad. A lot of people hate the Inheritance Cycle and its a great series. A lot of people hate things just to hate them. A lot of people hate Harry Potter and LOADS of people disagree. You can't be the one to say what's good or what's bad. You just can't be.



I spent six years in a film school. I sure as shit can tell you what movies are good and bad. 



> No one person or group is in charge of that.


True critics(about 40% of the RT critics) are. They're the only ones who really see film as an art form. The audience just wants entertainment and the executives (the ones who decide what gets made) only want the business.



> They were upset that a woman was stronger and wasn't even a character in the games.



This right here is the definition of a Mary Sue. Female or not, an original character should not be the end-all-be-all of an already established story.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 29, 2010)

@Noah:
I'd rather like what I like and hate what I hate. If I loved what others loved, I'd like FF7 and that game is terrible (okay, not terrible, but certainly not godly). If I liked what others liked, I'd like the faulty Halo games that is so "popular". If I liked what others liked, I wouldn't like dragons, wolves and many other things I simply adore. 

62 reasons? How about the reason: "what have I done to you guys?" >.<
(you could paste it 61 more times lol)

I may be young, but my taste won't change. 



> This right here is the definition of a Mary Sue. Female or not, an original character should not be the end-all-be-all of an already established story.


Mary-Sue? How? 

I think people need to see this as Alice's own game. Think of it as if she had games instead. This is her game, the movie is her game. She is injected with the T-Virus, of course she'll be strong.

You are guys are upsetting me!  Therefore I shall remove myself from the thread until the morning.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 29, 2010)

I think there is bias here, simply because Milla is Alice.

Alice itself is not a bad idea, since in RE, they tend to switch characters for each game a lot. A character that would stay around as the main focus for all the sequels sounds like a necessary measure as a framing device for the non-fans. However, they simply went over the top, and basically made a female good Wesker, with Sue tendencies. Worse than that, they rewrote the entire mythos to revolve around her, sounds like a huge disservice to the fans, the original series, and an offense to good writing.


----------



## Wan (Dec 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> 62 reasons? How about the reason: "what have I done to you guys?" >.<
> (you could paste it 61 more times lol)



You gave Paramount your money for a _The Last Airbender_ DVD.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 29, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> You gave Paramount your money for a _The Last Airbender_ DVD.



Technically my grandparents did. xD

Why can't we just agree to disagree? I'd very much like that option being played out instead of what's happening right now...


----------



## Wan (Dec 29, 2010)

Sure.  All you have to do is stop asking questions about why people don't like it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 29, 2010)

I'll do that as soon as you guys stop pickin' on people who likes things others don't. 

Alright, I gotta head to bed. I better not come back to this thread to see bad things about my movies, or you'll all pay! 



Night! :33


----------



## Noah (Dec 29, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Sure.  All you have to do is stop asking questions about why people don't like it.



AND AGREE THAT WE ARE RIGHT!



> I think there is bias here, simply because Milla is Alice.



This is probably a large part of it, but it's more than that.
The character Alice was dropped into a psuedo-RE1. Okay, fine. I'll accept that. Using an original character in place of an established one isn't the worst idea, but it's not a real good one either.

The problem is that Anderson then took Alice and put her DIRECTLY into RE3 (with hints of RE2, since it takes place at roughly the same time). She overshadowed the established characters and then the plot formed around her existence. That's where we run into the issue with her being a Sue. If RE:A had been more original like the first movie was, we'd just be bitching that it's not really RE. The real problem is that he made and OC, developed her, put her in the already existing story, and then let her take the wheel, all while becoming LadyWesker.

The fact that it's the women he goes to sleep at night with is just the catalyst to the issue.


----------



## Wan (Dec 29, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I'll do that as soon as you guys stop pickin' on people who likes things others don't.
> 
> Alright, I gotta head to bed. I better not come back to this thread to see bad things about my movies, or you'll all pay!
> 
> ...



Good night Terra!


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 30, 2010)

Alright. New Years party at my friends house! Who's showin' up?

(it's in the Chicago area. That should be more than enough info for you to find it)

See you guys there!


----------



## Noah (Dec 30, 2010)

Chicago?! Fantastic! I shall surely use this new information about your general area of living, along with your username and the IP I'll convince Jove to give me, to find out where you are! I shall destroy your credit, your home, and you family! Then, when I'm all done with that, I'll give you a real human brain....and RAPE YOU!

....oh wait. You name mixed me up. I confused you and the general region in which you reside with another robot.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 30, 2010)

Oh... so you're not going to do that then?

Cause I was getting kind of excited.


----------



## Ino Yamanaka (Dec 30, 2010)

I love this show, my favorite character is Ty Lee.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 30, 2010)

INamineI said:


> I love this show, my favorite character is Ty Lee.



Ty Lee is a great character! :33

She's one of my favorites! Her and Toph would make an excellent team


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 30, 2010)

I have a question.

Which other nation in the Avatarverse do you think would be most likely to start up a full scale war? We know each nation has good and bad people in it, we've even been given examples of each nation's evil in the show. But which nation do you think could pull off a full scale invasion of the other nations, and commit atrocities as the Fire Nation has?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 30, 2010)

Earth Kingdom for sure


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 30, 2010)

Who has the ability to do it? Probably the Earth Kingdom, or the Water Nation.

I don't think the Earth Kingdom would, but if they did want to, they could achieve it. But I think it would be easier for the Water Nation to take over and start a war like the Fire Nation had. Water is everyone, just like for rock.

But that's just what I think xD


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 30, 2010)

The Water Tribes starting a war is suicude.

The were undefeated until Zhao used seriously underhanded tactics. They had home turf advantage, as well as location advantage that gives them all the water they need, and more. But not only that, the location also works against Firebenders.

Taking a war anywhere but the north/south pole or somewhere with massive amounts of water is asking to be killed. They wouldn't last long at all. And don't even get me started on the fact that they only have the Northern Tribe to fight.

I think I agree with RekaiDemon, Earth Kingdom has everything they need to start a war.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 30, 2010)

Well, you can always pull water from lots of places. Or they could pull a Katara and carry around some water. A good water-bender doesn't need a _whole_ ocean lol


----------



## Wan (Dec 31, 2010)

I agree with Level7 -- the Water Tribes are in no position to start a war.  All we've seen of them is the sizable city of the Northern tribe and Sokka and Katara's small home tribe at the south pole.  _Maybe_ there's a few other tribes scattered about, but there's just no way from what we've seen that the Water Tribes have nearly enough manpower to invade the Fire Nation or Earth Kingdom.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 31, 2010)

The Water tribe is very strong, they could totally start a war... 

Fine! Garr! The Earth Kingdom would then! 

Anyway...I probably asked this before, so I searched the thread but no luck. But here it is anyway. Does anyone know what Earth bending is based on?


----------



## Noah (Dec 31, 2010)

I always got the impression that the Earth Kingdom was huge. Like....covers half the planet huge.

Fire Nation is technologically advanced and seems to have a better formed military.
Water Tribe is powerful in their own element, but they really only have one (or two?) southern villages and the northern city.
Air Nomads are....well, dead. 

So Earth Kingdom, being as expansive as it seems, would be the next logical choice.

Also, another example of Terra need to conform.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 31, 2010)

Poor Air Nomads. Do you think if they still existed they would be the most powerful and in a better seat to start a war? Or less than the Water Tribe?



Noah said:


> Also, another example of Terra need to conform.


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 31, 2010)

The Earth Kingdom itself was the main problem in the war before Aang came along.   I mean, seriously, Ba Sing Se itself isn't even a city. It's more like a small country. The Earth Kingdom itself is more like a continent! 

However the Fire Nation's superior technology helped them out immensely. Which is why they weren't immediately stomped.



Terra Branford said:


> Anyway...I probably asked this before, so I searched the thread but no luck. But here it is anyway. Does anyone know what Earth bending is based on?



I think Toph's style is based on Preying Mantis.



Terra Branford said:


> Poor Air Nomads. Do you think if they still existed they would be the most powerful and in a better seat to start a war? Or less than the Water Tribe?



The Air Nomads wouldn't last long because as Aang said, they have no real military. And despite their civilization being comprised solely of Airbenders, they don't have the numbers to start a war.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 31, 2010)

So you don't think their Aribending skills would have put them in any leap ahead of the Water or Earth in terms of a starting a war? I always believed if there were enough, they would probably be the most powerful 



> I think Toph's style is based on Preying Mantis.


But isn't there something its based on though...? The whole art, not just one person's style of it... If that makes sense xD


----------



## Wan (Dec 31, 2010)

Earthbending is based on Hun Gar style kung fu.  Toph's bending is based on Southern Praying Mantis style kung fu.

Again, there were not enough airbenders.  Their only settlements were four temples.  Not nearly enough to sustain a war.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 31, 2010)

Airbenders cannot, and WILL NOT start a war, they're a peaceful culture. It's laughable to even think that they could. 

Waterbenders can survive a war, but would be hardpresssed to press an offensive. They're a people with an extremely good defensive position, like Russia; but unlike Russia it would take days, or even months to infiltrate points of interest on land. By that time, any half decent intelligence network would've sent alarm before they could mount an attack. Also, the entirety of the Water Tribes arsenal are hunting weapons and naval countermeasures. Pretty much useless in landlocked Earth Kingdom. Besides that, an army of Water Benders would be out of their element if they invade far into land. Sure, they can take water with them, but they'd be in a similar situation if they were to get invaded. Being surrounded by land, an Earth Bending army could easily crush an army of belligerent Water Benders.

It would come down to a war of attrition between the Water Tribes and the Earth Kingdom. They're both in a position of a humongous stalemate.

I don't think they would fight though, they might become allies, since they don't have a beef with each other. Most likely, they'll take revenge on the Firenation. If they were to join, between them, they control the land and sea.


----------



## Wan (Dec 31, 2010)

Yeah, that worked out well for the last 100 years.


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 31, 2010)

Sozin's plan was fucking genius! He put the Fire Nation in a winning position from the start. 

Wiping out the Air Nomads, thus eliminating the Avatar, even though he didn't was brilliant. If Aang really did die, the Fire Nation would have 16 years to wreak havoc, and there's be no Air Nomads to teach him/her, thus depowering the Avatar. And Fire Lord Azulon could just pick him off. 

Genius.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Dec 31, 2010)

Mordin Solus said:


> Yeah, that worked out well for the last 100 years.


Well, I imagine that after Zuko was crowned, he'd demilitarize the  country. They only got into an advantageous situation after the comet.  After the war, they'd be on a clean battle field, seeing as they may  have withdrew all soldiers from the bases and naval platforms. 

Also, keep in mind, the Earth Nation kept a strong defense against the  Fire Nation for about a century, only until the comet passed a second  time was the only time the Earth Nation actually faced the threat of  losing.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 31, 2010)

Going further, if you had to rank the nations by ability to conquer the rest of the world, Earth Kingdom would be the clear number one.


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## Terra Branford (Dec 31, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Airbenders cannot, and WILL NOT start a war, they're a peaceful culture. It's laughable to even think that they could.



I asked if they had the power/skills to do it it would place them higher in power to be able to start a war, not that they would do it. Their abilities could defend against Earth, Water and Fire...


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 31, 2010)

So I convinced my friend to start watching A:TLA a few days ago and is ~10 episodes into Season 2 and loving it.

It's fun to spread infectionsaddictions.


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## Gunners (Dec 31, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> I have a question.
> 
> Which other nation in the Avatarverse do you think would be most likely to start up a full scale war? We know each nation has good and bad people in it, we've even been given examples of each nation's evil in the show. But which nation do you think could pull off a full scale invasion of the other nations, and commit atrocities as the Fire Nation has?



Earth Kingdom, I think some guy was in the process of doing what Sozin did before Kyoshi put a stop to him.


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## Burke (Dec 31, 2010)

Happy new years avatards.


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## VerdantVenus (Dec 31, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I asked if they had the power/skills to do it it would place them higher in power to be able to start a war, not that they would do it. Their abilities could defend against Earth, Water and Fire...


That's why I said they cannot do it, because Airbending is not an offensive art, and the Air Nomads don't have any technological advantages over the other nations. Their numbers especially are ill suited for a war.


----------



## Level7N00b (Dec 31, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Earth Kingdom, I think some guy was in the process of doing what Sozin did before Kyoshi put a stop to him.



Chin the Conqueror. He was expanding his army to all sides of the Earth Kingdom. However, Kyoshi said nothing about him trying to take over the world.


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## Stunna (Dec 31, 2010)

I believe that the Earth Kingdom would be capable of pulling off a global invasion like the Fire Nation, albeit some difficulty with the Water Tribes, but nothing they wouldn't be able to eventually overcome.

Earth FTW.


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## Terra Branford (Dec 31, 2010)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That's why I said they cannot do it, because Airbending is not an offensive art, and the Air Nomads don't have any technological advantages over the other nations. Their numbers especially are ill suited for a war.


Yea, they don't use it offensively...but that Airbending could really hurt! xD

Ever been in front of one of those really, really, really big fans? The ones they use in movies to create powerful winds? Well, I have and it hurt! lol

So it _could_ be used offensively.....


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## Stunna (Dec 31, 2010)

I think if honed appropriately, Airbending could become the most lethal of the elements.

Think about it. What do we breath to survive?

An Airbender could hone their skills to cut off our oxygen supply, or constantly retract our breathes... There's some Fridge Horror.


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## Terra Branford (Dec 31, 2010)

Stunna said:


> I think if honed appropriately, Airbending could become the most lethal of the elements.
> 
> Think about it. What do we breath to survive?
> 
> An Airbender could hone their skills to cut off our oxygen supply, or constantly retract our breathes... There's some Fridge Horror.



Like having a vacuum stuck against your mouth! 

It would be the scariest bending ever. *shudders*


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## Gunners (Jan 1, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That's why I said they cannot do it, because Airbending is not an offensive art, and the Air Nomads don't have any technological advantages over the other nations. Their numbers especially are ill suited for a war.



Air bending can be used lethally, I think people overlook the effects of gravity too much, if they sent someone flying into the air, they'd be in for a rude departure when they hit the ground. 

It doesn't look offensive because Aang is the only air bender we have seen fight who tries his very best not to kill. If a character had his capabilities but a killing streak to him you'd see how lethal the art can be. 



			
				Level700 said:
			
		

> Chin the Conqueror. He was expanding his army to all sides of the Earth Kingdom. However, Kyoshi said nothing about him trying to take over the world.


He took control of the Earth Kingdom, the fact that his name is Chin the Conqueror pretty much highlights what he was all about. You don't need to outright state that his intention was to ''take over the world'' individuals like him would capture what is within their grasp as they have the mindset of wanting to spread their control.
____________


> I believe that the Earth Kingdom would be capable of pulling off a global invasion like the Fire Nation, albeit some difficulty with the Water Tribes, but nothing they wouldn't be able to eventually overcome.
> 
> Earth FTW.


If they brought a fight to the Water tribe they would get curb stomped.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Yea, they don't use it offensively...but that Airbending could really hurt! xD
> 
> Ever been in front of one of those really, really, really big fans? The ones they use in movies to create powerful winds? Well, I have and it hurt! lol
> 
> So it _could_ be used offensively.....


Yeah, but it would only mildly inconvenience their opponents, especially if they're facing their polar opposite, the Earthbenders. They still need numbers though, at best, they could only fight one large battle, or many futile skirmishes.



Stunna said:


> I think if honed appropriately, Airbending could become the most lethal of the elements.
> 
> Think about it. What do we breath to survive?
> 
> An Airbender could hone their skills to cut off our oxygen supply, or constantly retract our breathes... There's some Fridge Horror.


We don't know if they have control over the individual periodic elements of air. Plus Airbenders don't have a boost to help them manipulate air better; at least not that we know of. I'm guessing that controlling an element from inside another person is difficult for some reason, hence why Waterbenders who know Bloodbending, needs to be at their peak power to utilize it.

Also, Airbenders seem to control the movement of air, rather than the presence of air, so it's unknown if they can create a vacuum. Creating a vacuum in open air would be difficult, since more air would rush in to fill the absence of air. It wouldn't mesh well with the Airbending style, which is graceful, flowing circular movements, a vacuum sounds like they would have to stay stationary, which goes against the Jing the Airbenders use. 

They could create a tornado possibly, but Earthbenders have the advantage of burrowing underground, and creating instant bunkers. Weatherbending was a fanon theory that was thought to be potentially possible, but that doesn't offer major advantages over Earthbenders, and if there were Waterbenders on the Earthbenders side, then they cover all the disadvantages of their partner.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Yeah, but it would only mildly inconvenience their opponents, especially if they're facing their polar opposite, the Earthbenders. They still need numbers though, at best, they could only fight one large battle, or many futile skirmishes.



Aang handled himself quiet nicely with Toph, and she's a great Earthbender. Earth might be Air's opposite, but that doesn't mean Airbending can't be effective against Earthbending.

Giant tornado, powerful winds and the list could go on. 

Though I do believe Earthbending is far better


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Aang handled himself quiet nicely with Toph, and she's a great Earthbender. Earth might be Air's opposite, but that doesn't mean Airbending can't be effective against Earthbending.
> 
> Giant tornado, powerful winds and the list could go on.
> 
> Though I do believe Earthbending is far better


Yes, but he was working on Toph's disadvantage, she can't "see" Aang very well because of his "floaty" steps.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Yes, but he was working on Toph's disadvantage, she can't "see" Aang very well because of his "floaty" steps.



Not the floating so she couldn't see episode, that wasn't really what I was referencing to... He could push boulders around (the episode when the Fire Nation is breaking into the Earth kingdom is a good example) and break them in half and whatnot.

Airbending is very deadly.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Not the floating so she couldn't see episode, that wasn't really what I was referencing to... He could push boulders around (the episode when the Fire Nation is breaking into the Earth kingdom is a good example) and break them in half and whatnot.
> 
> Airbending is very deadly.


Wait, wasn't he using his Earthbending for those?...


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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Wait, wasn't he using his Earthbending for those?...



Not that I remember...I remember him running up that wall and then moving the rock with Airbending and using Air Slices to cut the boulders.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jan 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Not that I remember...I remember him running up that wall and then moving the rock with Airbending and using Air Slices to cut the boulders.



It depends if you see air slashes through the boulders, otherwise I would say its earthbending.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> It depends if you see air slashes through the boulders, otherwise I would say its earthbending.



You can see this weird outline around the boulders in the episodes. Unless my eye sight is even worse than I thought xD


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## Shade (Jan 1, 2011)

Nick Canada started a Avatar marathon today and they're going to show all the episodes without any break. 

It's Avatar extras with the pop-up info but it's different info than the Extras I've seen on YouTube so I'm not sure what that's about. Anyway, I'll be in front of my TV for the next 24 hours.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

Shade said:


> Nick Canada started a Avatar marathon today and they're going to show all the episodes without any break.
> 
> It's Avatar extras with the pop-up info but it's different info than the Extras I've seen on YouTube so I'm not sure what that's about. Anyway, I'll be in front of my TV for the next 24 hours.



Lucky you.

They probably won't replay the same 2-3 episodes all day for you.


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## Stunna (Jan 1, 2011)

I hate "Avatar Extras". They barely give any real information, just 90% puns and unfunny jokes.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 1, 2011)




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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

Yes, he moved the boulders with Earthbending...isn't that what I said? 

Of course I wasn't speaking about when he was building that rock block or when his hand became all rocky. Hm, yes, it certainly looks like Earthbending for the cutting part.

But being able to move and throw them is what I meant anyway. Air isn't completely useless against Earth to the point that it becomes less stronger or any less deadly.

Airbending is by far the deadliest. I would rather face a Firebender or a Earthbender than a Airbender xD


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Yes, he moved the boulders with Earthbending...isn't that what I said?
> 
> Of course I wasn't speaking about when he was building that rock block or when his hand became all rocky. Hm, yes, it certainly looks like Earthbending for the cutting part.
> 
> ...


Except, Aang used Earthbending to throw and move the rocks...

And Airbending isn't the deadliest art.

But even then, it still doesn't help them in a campaign against the world, the whole of the Air Nomads won't be able to put up a good fight against the other three benders.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Except, Aang used Earthbending to throw and move the rocks...
> 
> And Airbending isn't the deadliest art.
> 
> But even then, it still doesn't help them in a campaign against the world, the whole of the Air Nomads won't be able to put up a good fight against the other three benders.



Um...did you not see the Air shield-like-bubble thing around the rocks when he turned them and shot them off at Azula? 



Airbending is far deadly then water, fire and earth. You can swim from water and hold your breath, you can possible outrun earth or do something else, I dunno, go on water. Maybe Firebending is a little worse than the other two, but Airbending can get you everywhere and you can't escape a bubble being made around you where the bender is taking all the air out of it.

Alright, Happy New Years everyone! Unfortunately, I have to go to bed to get up early tomorrow xD
Night y'all!


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## Wan (Jan 1, 2011)

Airbending's weakness is it doesn't really have any "finishing moves".  And no, sucking the air out of someone's lungs is fanon, just like bloodbending iswas until season three.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Um...did you not see the Air shield-like-bubble thing around the rocks when he turned them and shot them off at Azula?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, and I said that Aang used airbending to assist braking of the falling rock, while using Earthbending as well. 

And that's a bad example, if you're already in the water, you're already dead in a Waterbender's grasp. Not even Olympic swimmers can out swim a wave or whirlpool. The thing is, the more distance you put between you and an Airbender, the safer you are if you were to get hit. Another thing is, that when an Airbender traps you, you're more or less just winded, while if an Earthbender traps you, you got broken bones from running face first into a rock wall. And I doubt it's easy to run from an Earthbender if they could make instant walls.

I don't get why you are asserting that Airbending is the deadliest art, Airbending is the most peaceful of the arts. I feel like you're only saying this for the sake of disagreement. This STILL doesn't change that the Air Nomads CAN'T fight a successful world war against three other vastly powerful nations.


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## Gunners (Jan 1, 2011)

Air bending isn't more peaceful than any of the elements.


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## Level7N00b (Jan 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I hate "Avatar Extras". They barely give any real information, just 90% puns and unfunny jokes.



Not to mention things you probably could have deduced on your own.



Mordin Solus said:


> Airbending's weakness is it doesn't really have any "finishing moves".  And no, sucking the air out of someone's lungs is fanon, just like bloodbending iswas until season three.



This. Unless you are at a high altitude with your glider, Airbenders lack the means to kill someone.



Gunners said:


> Air bending isn't more peaceful than any of the elements.



Tell that to the random extras Gyatso probably Airbended off the mountain before he died of boredom.


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## Gunners (Jan 1, 2011)

> Airbending's weakness is it doesn't really have any "finishing moves". And no, sucking the air out of someone's lungs is fanon, just like bloodbending iswas until season three.


Like I said before, flinging someone in the air then letting gravity take care of business would do the trick.


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## Superstarseven (Jan 1, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Airbending's weakness is it doesn't really have any "finishing moves".  And no, sucking the air out of someone's lungs is fanon, just like bloodbending iswas until season three.



Hey, you may not like Bloodbending but a waterbender controlling someone's movement was something mentioned in the series bible before the first season was animated.


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## Wan (Jan 1, 2011)

Yes, I know; I have the art book too.  I don't really have anything against bloodbending, I was just joking around.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

> Yes, and I said that Aang used airbending to assist braking of the falling rock, while using Earthbending as well.


...but you just...you just: "Except, Aang used Earthbending to throw and move the rocks..." to my "But being able to move and throw them is what I meant anyway."
I said he used airbending to push and throw the rocks at Azula and you kept saying he used Earthbending. >.<

If space matters for Airbending, than it matters for fire, earth and water as well. A waterbender can't get you from far away, neither can a Firebender. Maybe its different for Earthbending...

You can't really use "distance" against Airbending...



> I don't get why you are asserting that Airbending is the deadliest art, Airbending is the most peaceful of the arts.


Its _used_ peacefully, that doesn't mean the power behind it is peaceful and can't harm or be the most deadliest. I can use many things that are dangerous peacefully. There are powerful styles of Martial Arts/Kung Fu/whatnot that can hurt you but are _used_ peacefully.



> Air bending isn't more peaceful than any of the elements.


No its not the most peaceful....Its very deadly. Airbenders don't use it aggressively, but that doesn't mean its not the deadliest.



> Airbending's weakness is it doesn't really have any "finishing moves". And no, sucking the air out of someone's lungs is fanon, just like bloodbending iswas until season three.


Again I'll bring up the giant fans and how bad they can hurt and possibly kill you. People die in powerful winds a LOT.


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## Level7N00b (Jan 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> If space matters for Airbending, than it matters for fire, earth and water as well. A waterbender can't get you from far away, neither can a Firebender. Maybe its different for Earthbending...
> 
> You can't really use "distance" against Airbending...



I think area is what he meant.

For Airbenders, they are always on the move. Avoid and evade is their basic strategy. If they are in an enclosed space, that strategy doesn't work. And it also gives them less air to work with if they are in a small room or anything like it.

Each element has its own weakness to balance it out. Waterbenders are stronger in places Firebenders are weak in. Strengths/Weaknesses do not apply to all four elements as a whole.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 1, 2011)

Level7N00b said:


> I think area is what he meant.


Hm, I think he really meant space/distance...

I coulda sworn I've seen Aang function perfectly well in small areas. 

Yes, Airbending does have its weakness, I'm not denying that. But Airbending is far more deadlier than the others (well, Firebending could be argued I suppose xD)


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 2, 2011)

I would rather not restart an old discussion, but I shall anyway; while I am not terribly upset that no major protagonist died in by the end of the series, I am very upset that none of them were severely crippled or broken in body or mind, _Only_ Azula and Ozai were broken in body and spirit, and they were both villains. I would have greatly liked it if a major hero, such as Aang, Sokka, Katara, or Zuko had been crippled as well, yet all of them were perfectly healthy by the end of the series. On one hand, I am glad that the heroes are able to have enjoyable and prosperous lives, but on the other hand, it seems terribly unfair to the villains that they would suffer so greatly. If the heroes must have a very happy ending, it would have been nice for Ozai and Azula to not have had to suffer so greatly; I really do not like the difference in the fates of the heroes and the villains.

Also on that subject, does anyone else not like the fact that Ozai is the _only_ bender to have lost his bending ability? he was one of the most powerful benders in the series, and now he is powerless! Why couldn't Aang have deprived another, lesser bender of their ability, as well, just so that Ozai was not the only person who needed to suffer such a fate. And what right did Aang have to deliver such a punishment upon Ozai, anyway? The avatar is not a deity, despite his or her great power, and it was very arbitrary, and also quite tyrannical, in my mind, for Aang to decide that Ozai deserved to suffer such a fate, in my mind.

Now, to move away from that topic, I have learned that there are a number of characters who appear only in the trading card game of this franchise, and thus are not considered to be canonical characters. I find this to be rather regrettable, as they seem to be very interesting characters. Does anyone else wish for more information to be given about these characters, to expand their personalities and give them more depth, or it is better to leave them to the imaginations (and fan works) of the audience?


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

I never really thought of Azula as a villain. She was just lost and manipulated by her father...



Trading cards? What?! Where have I been! I look through the card sections of stores all the time! >.<


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## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I would have greatly liked it if a major hero, such as Aang, Sokka, Katara, or Zuko had been crippled as well, yet all of them were perfectly healthy by the end of the series.


Zuko is scarred and put under tremendous responsibility.
Toph is blind.
Katara has intimate knowledge of Bloodbending.
Aang is scarred and is put under tremendous pressure.


> Also on that subject, does anyone else not like the fact that Ozai is the _only_ bender to have lost his bending ability? he was one of the most powerful benders in the series, and now he is powerless! Why couldn't Aang have deprived another, lesser bender of their ability, as well, just so that Ozai was not the only person who needed to suffer such a fate. And what right did Aang have to deliver such a punishment upon Ozai, anyway?


Ozai shows he's not responsible enough for such power. He attempts to scar the Earth and as the Earth's spirit, Aang prevents him from ever doing so again.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> ...but you just...you just: "Except, Aang used Earthbending to throw and move the rocks..." to my "But being able to move and throw them is what I meant anyway."
> I said he used airbending to push and throw the rocks at Azula and you kept saying he used Earthbending. >.<
> 
> If space matters for Airbending, than it matters for fire, earth and water as well. A waterbender can't get you from far away, neither can a Firebender. Maybe its different for Earthbending...
> ...


No, Aang didn't use Airbending to throw and push rocks at Azula, he used it to help bring the falling rock to a stop. It's also conceivable that he was also using Earthbending in conjunction to Airbending to stop that rock from falling on him. Earthbenders can levitate rocks, after Aang stopped the rock, he used Earthbending to throw it.

What I meant is that if you're about a hundred feet away from each bender, which would hurt the least? A rock to the ribs would definitely hurt more than a strong gust. A fireball will definitely cause tissue damage, while water might knock you off your feet, but it's definitely got more kinetic energy than air. A waterbender has a chance to catch you at a distance more than an Airbender. Earthbenders too can have the potential to snare you in many ways. With firebending, it may be slim, but it's far more a chance than airbending.

I'm not saying Airbending is completely impotent, I'm saying compared to the rest of the elements, it does the least amount of damage. It takes a huge amount of effort to kill someone with airbending, it's possible, but it takes far less effort for all the other arts. I mean, you can drown people in a mass of water with Waterbending, crush people to a mush between two rocks with Earthbending, and barbecue people with Firebending. It makes no sense what so ever to say out of all the bending styles, Airbending is the most powerful.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I never really thought of Azula as a villain. She was just lost and manipulated by her father...



Azula's insanity wasn't brought upon, or enabled by Ozai, she was apparently born a cruel and vindictive person, and was pushed over the edge by her mother's supposed disdain for her, and preference of Zuko.

Tragic, yes, but I have no remorse for her.


----------



## Noah (Jan 2, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> Zuko is scarred and put under tremendous responsibility.
> Toph is blind.
> Katara has intimate knowledge of Bloodbending.
> Aang is scarred and is put under tremendous pressure.
> Ozai shows he's not responsible enough for such power. He attempts to scar the Earth and as the Earth's spirit, Aang prevents him from ever doing so again.



This. And also, it's a children's story. Where would any of the main kids dying make any sense to a story aimed at children?


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

What is with DDJ's sadistic fascination with the wishes of impairing the health of Avatar's characters? <_<


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

> Azula's insanity wasn't brought upon, or enabled by Ozai, she was apparently born a cruel and vindictive person, and was pushed over the edge by her mother's supposed disdain for her, and preference of Zuko.
> 
> Tragic, yes, but I have no remorse for her.


Didn't you see the Ember Island episode?

She wasn't born that way, she was raised and drilled that way by Ozai. She just wanted her parent's love and have them proud of her.... :c

@ReikaiDemon:
..... He did use Airbending, I even took a snapshot and if he had used Earthbending to throw the first rock, why didn't he use Earthbending to stop the rock instead of using Airbending? That seems very illogical for Aang since he most seems logical with his Airbending...But whatever. Let's just drop it, I already know where this is going.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Didn't you see the Ember Island episode?
> 
> She wasn't born that way, she was raised and drilled that way by Ozai. She just wanted her parent's love and have them proud of her.... :c



I haven't seen _The Beach_ in awhile. I should re-watch it.


----------



## Piekage (Jan 2, 2011)

> I would rather not restart an old discussion, but I shall anyway; while I am not terribly upset that no major protagonist died in by the end of the series, I am very upset that none of them were severely crippled or broken in body or mind, Only Azula and Ozai were broken in body and spirit, and they were both villains. I would have greatly liked it if a major hero, such as Aang, Sokka, Katara, or Zuko had been crippled as well, yet all of them were perfectly healthy by the end of the series. On one hand, I am glad that the heroes are able to have enjoyable and prosperous lives, but on the other hand, it seems terribly unfair to the villains that they would suffer so greatly. If the heroes must have a very happy ending, it would have been nice for Ozai and Azula to not have had to suffer so greatly; I really do not like the difference in the fates of the heroes and the villains.



As Jove pointed out, plenty of Avatar characters have injuries and disabilities. They just rarely got angsty about it. How would any further injuries or impairments make the story better?

Why is it unfair? Ozai and Azula dug their own graves by being assholes. Genocide is not ok, and suggesting it and trying to carry it out is pretty fucked up, so both of them deserve what they got. And this is a children's show, so what did you expect?



DemonDragonJ said:


> Also on that subject, does anyone else not like the fact that Ozai is the _only_ bender to have lost his bending ability? he was one of the most powerful benders in the series, and now he is powerless! Why couldn't Aang have deprived another, lesser bender of their ability, as well, just so that Ozai was not the only person who needed to suffer such a fate. And what right did Aang have to deliver such a punishment upon Ozai, anyway? The avatar is not a deity, despite his or her great power, and it was very arbitrary, and also quite tyrannical, in my mind, for Aang to decide that Ozai deserved to suffer such a fate, in my mind.



What would have been the point of Aang stripping another of their Bending? Especially on the very last episode? Especially since Ozai is a complete monster that deserves no sympathy whatsoever for the atrocities he gladly commited? I'm baffled that you consider what Aang did was tyrannical, when he only took the action he took to prevent an actual tyrant from burning *an entire nation *to the ground. Consider what Ozai would have done if Aang didn't kill or strip him of his bending. More people would have been killed because Aang can't watch Ozai 24/7. Just so Ozai won't feel lonely in the "Former Benders" club? Stripping a power hungry, murderous tyrant of all his power in exchange for world peace seems like a pretty even trade to me.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Didn't you see the Ember Island episode?
> 
> She wasn't born that way, she was raised and drilled that way by Ozai. She just wanted her parent's love and have them proud of her.... :c
> 
> ...


I said it about a post or two before my last one to you, he used both because it was falling too fast for Earthbending alone. If he used Airbending to hold the rock up, then there should be a constant blue air on it, but it disappears afterwards. There is no jet, cyclone or pocket of air when he threw the rock. It was not being propelled or blown by airbending.

It's also possible that he's still adapting to his knowledge of Earthbending, and he's more learned in Airbending than Earthbending. So perhaps to make up for his relatively lesser power in Earthbending, that he augments it with Airbending.

But, as I said, it still doesn't help in a war to take over the world if Airbenders COULD "Earthbend" with airbending.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I haven't seen _The Beach_ in awhile. I should re-watch it.



Doh! That's what the episode is called.....?

Why was I thinking Ember Island then?


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## Piekage (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Didn't you see the Ember Island episode?
> 
> She wasn't born that way, she was raised and drilled that way by Ozai. She just wanted her parent's love and have them proud of her.... :c



Who _is_ born evil? Azula may have some sympathetic moments, but considering what she did or was willing to do throughout the series, like trying to enslave/kill Iroh, Zuko and Aang multiple times, taking over Ba Sing Se, trying to kill her friends, and suggesting mass genocide puts her well within villain territory.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

Piekage said:


> Who _is_ born evil? Azula may have some sympathetic moments, but considering what she did or was willing to do throughout the series, like trying to enslave/kill Iroh, Zuko and Aang multiple times, taking over Ba Sing Se, trying to kill her friends, and suggesting mass genocide puts her well within villain territory.



No one is born evil...at least I don't think they are.

Azula has done evil things, but she isn't really evil. As I said before, she's just been manipulated and hurt. She just wanted her father to love her and doing those things was the only thing Ozai cared about.

Zuko tried doing the same thing. Capturing the Avatar, threatening to burn a village down and whatnot...but he's not evil.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Piekage said:


> Who _is_ born evil? Azula may have some sympathetic moments, but considering what she did or was willing to do throughout the series, like trying to enslave/kill Iroh, Zuko and Aang multiple times, taking over Ba Sing Se, trying to kill her friends, and suggesting mass genocide puts her well within villain territory.





Terra Branford said:


> No one is born evil...at least I don't think they are.
> 
> Azula has done evil things, but she isn't really evil. As I said before, she's just been manipulated and hurt. She just wanted her father to love her and doing those things was the only thing Ozai cared about.
> 
> Zuko tried doing the same thing. Capturing the Avatar, threatening to burn a village down and whatnot...but he's not evil.


I'm with Pie here, regardless of whether or not that you were born evil, it does not negate and excuse the magnitude of one's actions. 

Ozai was a cute baby, but he's still a megalomaniac tyrant who continued the war in full stride and pride.  

Also, if we're arguing with the philosophy of the blank slate, keep in mind, the other side of that is that no one is born good either.

Zuko is not comparable to Azula, because unlike Azula, Zuko tried to make up for his sins, and knows what he did was evil.

Azula couldn't care less about anyone elses pain, she's selfish. She has never once looked back on her actions, and considered what she did was wrong; only what she could do to please herself, and Ozai. She was ready to kill Zuko, and suggested mass genocide without batting an eye. I bet she has never considered Mai and Ty Lee her friends, just favored hands, or possessions.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 2, 2011)

I was going to respond to Terra but ReikaiDemon said all that needs to be said on the matter.

I'd like to point out that the only time we have seen Azula display sadness is when her dad told her to stay at home whilst he burned the world to the ground.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 2, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> Zuko is scarred and put under tremendous responsibility.
> Toph is blind.
> Katara has intimate knowledge of Bloodbending.
> Aang is scarred and is put under tremendous pressure.



Yes, but all of them have recovered from or learned to live with those injuries or handicaps, so their conditions are not the same as those of Ozai and Azula, who do not appear as if they will be able to recover at any point in the near future of the storyline.



Snow Miser said:


> Ozai shows he's not responsible enough for such power. He attempts to scar the Earth and as the Earth's spirit, Aang prevents him from ever doing so again.



Again, I shall ask: what authority did Aang have to judge Ozai? I do not believe that being the Avatar should allow him to punish other people, and especially not in such a manner.



Noah said:


> This. And also, it's a children's story. Where would any of the main kids dying make any sense to a story aimed at children?



Why does this being a series for children necessitate it having a happy ending? Such a great number of people seem to have that unfortunate (in my mind) belief, most notably the Walt Disney Corporation, but apparently, Nickelodeon, as well. And the main characters dying would make perfect sense, it would simply, be very tragic.



ReikaiDemon said:


> What is with DDJ's sadistic fascination with the wishes of impairing the health of Avatar's characters? <_<



I have been reading _A Song of Ice and Fire_ by George R.R. Martin, a series in which the main characters suffer many terrible tragedies, and I shall admit that it had influenced how I perceive other series. I now find that it strains my credibility or suspension of disbelief when the protagonists of a story accomplish their goals too easily or without major obstacles or sacrifices.



Piekage said:


> What would have been the point of Aang stripping another of their Bending? Especially on the very last episode? Especially since Ozai is a complete monster that deserves no sympathy whatsoever for the atrocities he gladly commited? I'm baffled that you consider what Aang did was tyrannical, when he only took the action he took to prevent an actual tyrant from burning *an entire nation *to the ground. Consider what Ozai would have done if Aang didn't kill or strip him of his bending. More people would have been killed because Aang can't watch Ozai 24/7. Just so Ozai won't feel lonely in the "Former Benders" club? Stripping a power hungry, murderous tyrant of all his power in exchange for world peace seems like a pretty even trade to me.



I suppose that I am still angry that Ozai is alive and suffering currently; I really wish that someone had killed him _after_ Aang deprived him of his ability to bend, so that his last moments would be moments of glory, rather than a pathetic and broken shell of his former self.

Now, to be completely theoretical, why couldn't Aang, or another Avatar, assist the Fire Lord, either Sozin or Ozai, in their quest for world domination?  In a certain, twisted sense, uniting the entire world under a single government, even a tyrannical one, would be bringing balance to the world, because their would be no disagreements between people or nations and no one would wish to cause any trouble for fear of punishment. And I shall admit that if _I_ were the Avatar in this franchise, I would not be as peaceful as Aang was; I would likely be very similar to Ozai or Sozin in terms of personality.

However, I now must state that the above paragraph was completely theoretical, because in actuality, I am utterly opposed to tyrannical governments, and sometimes any government at all, for I support the idea of complete and unrestricted personal freedom for all people, as long as they do not wish to cause harm or suffering to other people.


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## Nodonn (Jan 2, 2011)

> I would not be as peaceful as Aang was; I would likely be very similar to Ozai or Sozin in terms of personality.
> 
> However, I now must state that the above paragraph was completely theoretical, because in actuality, I am utterly opposed to tyrannical governments



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SHNJqvFqt4[/YOUTUBE]


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## Gunners (Jan 2, 2011)

> Yes, but all of them have recovered from or learned to live with those injuries or handicaps, so their conditions are not the same as those of Ozai and Azula, who do not appear as if they will be able to recover at any point in the near future of the storyline.


Because they are villains. This isn't exactly a difficult concept to understand. If Ozai wasn't an evil individual he would be able to live a normal life like most other benders. With Azula I guess she is crazy but that can be seen as the consequences of her actions. 


> Again, I shall ask: what authority did Aang have to judge Ozai? I do not believe that being the Avatar should allow him to punish other people, and especially not in such a manner.


The avatar is essentially the Earth's spirit in human form, he has 100,000 years + worth of experience and his job is to maintain balance in the world. Ozai was in the process of disrupting that balance he had every right to discipline Ozai. 


> Why does this being a series for children necessitate it having a happy ending? Such a great number of people seem to have that unfortunate (in my mind) belief, most notably the Walt Disney Corporation, but apparently, Nickelodeon, as well. And the main characters dying would make perfect sense, it would simply, be very tragic.


The main character dying would make about as much sense as the main character living. Avatar being a children's series gives the authors every right to go with a positive ending over a negative ending when it will not effect the quality. 

You wanting to see bloodshed and sorrow in the series reeks of the insecurity people have when watching something that is directed at children. Wanting to see shit that they feel appeals to them as a 'mature viewer'. 



> I have been reading A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin, a series in which the main characters suffer many terrible tragedies, and I shall admit that it had influenced how I perceive other series. I now find that it strains my credibility or suspension of disbelief when the protagonists of a story accomplish their goals too easily or without major obstacles or sacrifices.


So you admit that you are narrow minded. 

Putting that aside it is a bit stupid to say that Aang accomplished his goals without sacrifice or major obstacles. He pretty much struggled with mastering the elements for 3 seasons and inner turmoil of how to deal with Ozai without taking his life. Losing his connection to the avatar state and the guilt of the world's problems. 

As for sacrifice, he lost his people and culture. He also had his life span cut by 100 years. 



> I suppose that I am still angry that Ozai is alive and suffering currently; I really wish that someone had killed him after Aang deprived him of his ability to bend, so that his last moments would be moments of glory, rather than a pathetic and broken shell of his former self.


What you wish for is irrelevant. You're speaking as though Iroh was some noble badass like Iroh. He wasn't, he was a horrible man who tried murdering an entire nation, he deserved to be humbled and as Zuko said it might put him on the right path. 


> Now, to be completely theoretical, why couldn't Aang, or another Avatar, assist the Fire Lord, either Sozin or Ozai, in their quest for world domination? In a certain, twisted sense, uniting the entire world under a single government, even a tyrannical one, would be bringing balance to the world, because their would be no disagreements between people or nations and no one would wish to cause any trouble for fear of punishment. And I shall admit that if I were the Avatar in this franchise, I would not be as peaceful as Aang was; I would likely be very similar to Ozai or Sozin in terms of personality.


It would effect the balance. You're overlooking the impact spirituality plays in the series. If the fire nation crushed the other nations there would be an imbalance of the elements and an imbalance of cultures in the world.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 2, 2011)

I do not have the time or the patience to respond to every point of yours, Gunners, so I shall choose only those that I find to be most important.



Gunners said:


> You wanting to see bloodshed and sorrow in the series reeks of the insecurity people have when watching something that is directed at children. Wanting to see shit that they feel appeals to them as a 'mature viewer'.



I am _not_ "insecure," as you say; I can watch series such as this one, _Gargoyles, Reboot,_ or _Teen Titans_ without having any problems with doing so, so I am greatly offended by that statement.



Gunners said:


> So you admit that you are narrow minded.



I am _not_ "narrow-minded," as you say; in every aspect of my life, I attempt to be open minded and accept differing viewpoints, even if I do not agree with them, so again, I take great offense from your statement.



Gunners said:


> What you wish for is irrelevant. You're speaking as though Iroh was some noble badass like Iroh. He wasn't, he was a horrible man who tried murdering an entire nation, he deserved to be humbled and as Zuko said it might put him on the right path.



I know that perfectly well that Ozai was evil and megalomaniacal, but that is why I like him as a character. He was not noble, but he _was_ a badass, and I do not like seeing badass characters become less so. As for his attempt at genocide, why should I care about the people he attempted to kill? They are fictional characters in a fictional universe; I do not care about most people in actuality, except for those who are emotionally close to me, so characters from a fictional story most certainly are not worth my time and caring.

Finally, there is something that is very important that I wish to discuss. In this thread, I have kept all of my posts relevant to the discussion of this fictional series, and I have _never_ made any comments about the beliefs or personality traits of the other users here. However, other users here have _repeatedly_ made very negative comments about my beliefs and personality, which I believe are completely unprovoked and unjustified. Do all of you realize that you are being terribly impolite and actually rather cruel when you make comments about me as a person, when I have never done so to you?



Nodonn said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SHNJqvFqt4[/YOUTUBE]



I shall say to you the same thing that I said to Gunners: please keep any comments about me as a person out of this discussion, as they are irrelevant to it. I am allowed to have my own opinion, and I _did_ say that I was being _completely theoretical._


----------



## Gunners (Jan 2, 2011)

> I am not "insecure," as you say; I can watch series such as this one, Gargoyles, Reboot, or Teen Titans without having any problems with doing so, so I am greatly offended by that statement.














> I am not "narrow-minded," as you say; in every aspect of my life, I attempt to be open minded and accept differing viewpoints, even if I do not agree with them, so again, I take great offense from your statement.












________
In all seriousness you are insecure. You cannot watch series such as this without a problem because you're constantly complaining about the lack of bloodshed or characters not getting maimed. When the excess violence or gloom would not improve the quality of the series individual seeking it come across as wanting the series to be ''edgy'' so it fits their age group. 

You are a narrow minded individual, having a different opinion to normal human beings doesn't make you open minded. 



> I know that perfectly well that Ozai was evil and megalomaniacal, but that is why I like him as a character. He was not noble, but he was a badass, and I do not like seeing badass characters become less so. As for his attempt at genocide, why should I care about the people he attempted to kill? They are fictional characters in a fictional universe; I do not care about most people in actuality, except for those who are emotionally close to me, so characters from a fictional story most certainly are not worth my time and caring.


Challenging your 13 year old son and burning his face is badass? Attemping to spit roast a 12 year old boy is badass? Those are the actions of a bully not a badass. That being said he did those actions with style. 

Anyway it isn't about you caring about his attempt at genocide it's about his actions within the series. He had to be punished for it as the people within the series would care about his actions and the creators would try and show that. So him losing his abilities and rotting in a cell is a justified and fitting end for him. 



> Finally, there is something that is very important that I wish to discuss. In this thread, I have kept all of my posts relevant to the discussion of this fictional series, and I have never made any comments about the beliefs or personality traits of the other users here. However, other users here have repeatedly made very negative comments about my beliefs and personality, which I believe are completely unprovoked and unjustified. Do all of you realize that you are being terribly impolite and actually rather cruel when you make comments about me as a person, when I have never done so to you?


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 2, 2011)

> I shall say to you the same thing that I said to Gunners: please keep any comments about me as a person out of this discussion, as they are irrelevant to it. I am allowed to have my own opinion, and I did say that I was being completely theoretical.



You just said the only reason you aren't a brutal genocidal dictator is because you lack the power.
You're either evil or an idiot.
I'm going to say you're an idiot.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 2, 2011)

Gunners, my patience with you is wearing very thin now, so I shall keep my post very brief.

Who are you to say that I am "insecure" or "narrow-minded?" What authority do you have to make such a judgment of my personality?

I have now decided that your words do not matter; I am not going to allow your words to bother me, and regardless of what you say, I _know_ that I am not insecure or narrow-minded; the words of one person will not counter the assurance that I have from my friends and family that I am secure and open-minded.

As for Ozai "attempting to spit-roast a 12-year-old bay," Aang is the Avatar, not an ordinary child, so Ozai was not being a bully in that situation.

Finally, what is the name of that song that you posted, and how is it relevant to this discussion?



Nodonn said:


> You just said the only reason you aren't a brutal genocidal dictator is because you lack the power.
> You're either evil or an idiot.
> I'm going to say you're an idiot.



I am neither an idiot nor am I evil, and I do not appreciate you making such comments. Again, *I WAS BEING COMPLETELY THEORETICAL* with that statement, and I also *HAVE NEVER MADE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT YOU AS A PERSON,* so I shall ask you to please not make any comments about me as a person, either.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 2, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





DemonDragonJ said:


> I would rather not restart an old discussion, but I shall anyway; while I am not terribly upset that no major protagonist died in by the end of the series, I am very upset that none of them were severely crippled or broken in body or mind, _Only_ Azula and Ozai were broken in body and spirit, and they were both villains. I would have greatly liked it if a major hero, such as Aang, Sokka, Katara, or Zuko had been crippled as well, yet all of them were perfectly healthy by the end of the series. On one hand, I am glad that the heroes are able to have enjoyable and prosperous lives, but on the other hand, it seems terribly unfair to the villains that they would suffer so greatly. If the heroes must have a very happy ending, it would have been nice for Ozai and Azula to not have had to suffer so greatly; I really do not like the difference in the fates of the heroes and the villains.
> 
> Also on that subject, does anyone else not like the fact that Ozai is the _only_ bender to have lost his bending ability? he was one of the most powerful benders in the series, and now he is powerless! Why couldn't Aang have deprived another, lesser bender of their ability, as well, just so that Ozai was not the only person who needed to suffer such a fate. And what right did Aang have to deliver such a punishment upon Ozai, anyway? The avatar is not a deity, despite his or her great power, and it was very arbitrary, and also quite tyrannical, in my mind, for Aang to decide that Ozai deserved to suffer such a fate, in my mind.
> QUOTE]








DemonDragonJ said:


> Remember, this is a kid's show. Its the only reason why things weren't more violent that they already were. And I dunno how you can ask for more when Avatar already got tons of shit past the radar. Ozai had to be stripped of his bending because Aang couldn't kill him, the network would have gotten in trouble. Ozai deserved all the suffering he's going to get. He falls into the Complete Monster category and deserves no sympathy from anyone. Azula however, I will cut some slack.
> 
> Ozai is the only bender who needed to lose his powers. If they put him inn jail without it, they'd have to come up with some super mega restraint device that would probably look like human degradation when he's put into it. Besides, having his bending and just being imprisoned is still far too dangerous for someone like him. Taking his bending was  a favor to the world, as anyone in Avatarverse and they'll agree. The case was never so sever that Aang needed to Energybend anyone else.
> 
> ...


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## Burke (Jan 2, 2011)

Has anyone seen Turtle Joves lately?


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## Nodonn (Jan 2, 2011)

> I am neither an idiot nor am I evil, and I do not appreciate you making such comments. Again, I WAS BEING COMPLETELY THEORETICAL with that statement, and I also HAVE NEVER MADE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT YOU AS A PERSON, so I shall ask you to please not make any comments about me as a person, either.



Do you know what theoretical means? It means that you were talking about what you would do in that specific situation. 
You just said that you would be a genocidal maniac  if you had the power.
You're an idiot.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I haven't seen _The Beach_ in awhile. I should re-watch it.







But, to conclude:


*A Contention to DemonDragonJ's Contentions*​


*I. The Avatar has supreme authority and power.* 


...A. This is the essence of the series

.....1. There's no use fighting the entire basis for a show.

.....2. A successful premise

...B. This does not inhibit the show.

.....1. The show's action comes from the Avatar's struggles

.......a. In maintaining peace

.......b. In understanding his or her powers

.....2. The Avatar is not invincible, either

.....C. The are very few meaningful ways to contend this premise



*II. This was not a tragic tale*


...A. It was a heroic tale.

.....1. It is monomyth, in fact

.......a. They acknowledge the influence of Joseph Campbell in a commentary

.....2. Monomythic heroic tales are seldom tragic.

.....3. Because of it's nature, a major death would have been out of context.

...B. The Beach was quite tragic

.....1. I mean, honestly guys

.....2. Look, I understand what you were trying to do...

.......a. Seriously, I really do...



*III. Undermining yourself*


...A. 





DemonDragonJ said:


> *I suppose that I am still angry that Ozai is alive and suffering currently*; I really wish that someone had killed him _after_ Aang deprived him of his ability to bend, so that his last moments would be moments of glory, rather than a pathetic and broken shell of his former self.




...B. 





DemonDragonJ said:


> As for his attempt at genocide, why should I care about the people he attempted to kill? They are fictional characters in a fictional universe; I do not care about most people in actuality, except for those who are emotionally close to me, so *characters from a fictional story most certainly are not worth my time and caring*



...C. Caring is a two-way street

.....1. Sometimes fandom clouds the doors of perception

...D. On the subject of the fictional of major and unseen characters

.....1. Both are equally fictional

.....2. Relevance doesn't preclude point B from undermining point A



*IV. Acceptance* 

...A. Finding ways to critique the show for what it is

.....1. Asking  "why?" instead of "why not?"

.......a. Intellectually moving with the current, not against it

.......b. Getting to the core of the mythology

.......c. Understanding the Avatar World instead of misunderstanding it

.....2. Less futile arguments

.......a. Contentions that can legitimately be answered, "Because."



*V. Conclusion*

...A. Thread activity at a stable and healthy rate

...B. I'm still Avatar Joveku, even if I was gone for two weeks

.....1. I got engaged, and she got me the Artbook for Christmas

.......a. Not in that order 

.......b. One did not lead to the other 

...C. Happy New Year, Avatar Thread


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## Nodonn (Jan 2, 2011)

You got engaged? Congratulations dude.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jan 2, 2011)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> .....1. I got engaged, and she got me the Artbook for Christmas
> 
> .......a. Not in that order
> 
> ...



Congratulations dude!

But be honest, you asked her to marry you _because _she got you the art book. Didn't you.


----------



## Piekage (Jan 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I know that perfectly well that Ozai was evil and megalomaniacal, but that is why I like him as a character. He was not noble, but he was a badass, and I do not like seeing badass characters become less so. As for his attempt at genocide, why should I care about the people he attempted to kill? They are fictional characters in a fictional universe; I do not care about most people in actuality, except for those who are emotionally close to me, so characters from a fictional story most certainly are not worth my time and caring.



Then why should you or us care about Ozai? He's just as fictional as the characters you don't care about. Ozai is badass, but some people don't like characters that try and kill millions of people. I myself don't like Ozai's actions because I can imagine myself as a random Earth Kingdom citizen and how scared shitless I'd be when I saw a fleet of airships rain fire over my country. With me right below them. 



DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, but all of them have recovered from or learned to live with those injuries or handicaps, so their conditions are not the same as those of Ozai and Azula, who do not appear as if they will be able to recover at any point in the near future of the storyline.


You say that like it's a bad thing. Being able to deal with injuries and disabilities as well as they had suggests good character growth, and a reminder to the audience that just because we suffer from tragedy or physical impairment, we can still go on with our lives. I would think that a good lesson for kids to learn.


DemonDragonJ said:


> Again, I shall ask: what authority did Aang have to judge Ozai? I do not believe that being the Avatar should allow him to punish other people, and especially not in such a manner.


That's like asking what right the police have to stop people from killing people and robbing banks. Scratch that, that's like asking why Superman wouldn't stop someone from killing your family while he was right there.

For one, it's been stated multiple times that Aang is the spirit of the planet reincarnated in human form. For two, what should Aang have done? Allow Ozai to commit mass genocide? Consider what would have hapened if Ozai had been allowed his bending? Consider what he did when he *had* his bending. If a person bought a gun with the intention of killing people for fun, would you try and stop this person before he loaded the damn thing? It's not about judging Ozai. Aang did what he had to do to protect people's lives, even Ozai's.


DemonDragonJ said:


> Why does this being a series for children necessitate it having a happy ending? Such a great number of people seem to have that unfortunate (in my mind) belief, most notably the Walt Disney Corporation, but apparently, Nickelodeon, as well. And the main characters dying would make perfect sense, it would simply, be very tragic.


How would it make perfect sense? It doesn't fit the narrative at all. In Cowboy Bebop, there's plenty of moments that hint towards Spike's death; Vicious said he's the only one who could kill him(which Spike agreed with), Spike said the only reasons he lives was to be with Julia and kill Vicious, there's plenty of build up beforehand that would suggest that when Spike entered the Red Dragon HQ, he wasn't coming out.

Avatar has always been an optimistic, hero's journey. Most of the time Good prevailed over Evil. Killing any of the main characters would have gone against the tone of the show.

Bringing up Disney, how many of them have tragic or bittersweet endings? I'm well aware of the Mufasa and Bambi's dad and all that, but I can't recall a single one where the good guys die at the end. I could be wrong though.


DemonDragonJ said:


> I suppose that I am still angry that Ozai is alive and suffering currently; I really wish that someone had killed him _after_ Aang deprived him of his ability to bend, so that his last moments would be moments of glory, rather than a pathetic and broken shell of his former self.


That's fine, but why are you angry to begin with? Ozai's fate is very fitting. He prided himself on his bending and power, and despised those he considered weak. In the end, he because what he hated most, weak. Killing him would be doing him a service, because he'll never have the power he once had.


DemonDragonJ said:


> Now, to be completely theoretical, why couldn't Aang, or another Avatar, assist the Fire Lord, either Sozin or Ozai, in their quest for world domination?  In a certain, twisted sense, uniting the entire world under a single government, even a tyrannical one, would be bringing balance to the world, because their would be no disagreements between people or nations and no one would wish to cause any trouble for fear of punishment. And I shall admit that if _I_ were the Avatar in this franchise, I would not be as peaceful as Aang was; I would likely be very similar to Ozai or Sozin in terms of personality.


Then the show would be entirely different. Everything would be different. So different that there's no point in discussing this, because an Aang or Roku that would take over the world wouldn't* be *the Aang and Roku we know and love. Your purposing that two characters would do things that they would never do.

Also, your logic is flawed. Unless the FN killed every single non Fire Nation citizen, there would be plenty of disagreements. The main reason that Ozai was going to burn the Earth Kingdom was* because *Zuko said the EK would never yield to Fire Nation rule. 

And lets not forget that this idea also goes right back to what you said, and I quote,



DemonDragonJ said:


> *Again, I shall ask: what authority did Aang have to judge Ozai? I do not believe that being the Avatar should allow him to punish other people, and especially not in such a manner.*



What gives Ozai or Aang or anyone else the right to rule the world? What gives them the right to conquer nations and impose their will over anyone else?



DemonDragonJ said:


> However, I now must state that the above paragraph was completely theoretical, because in actuality, I am utterly opposed to tyrannical governments, and sometimes any government at all, for I support the idea of complete and unrestricted personal freedom for all people, as long as they do not wish to cause harm or suffering to other people.



That is directly at odds with this.



DemonDragonJ said:


> And I shall admit that if _I_ were the Avatar in this franchise, I would not be as peaceful as Aang was; I would likely be very similar to Ozai or Sozin in terms of personality.



I'm not saying you support tyrannical governments and the like. But well, you are.

EDIT - Curse you Jove.

And Congrats!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Congratulations dude!
> 
> But be honest, you asked her to marry you _because _she got you the art book. Didn't you.



My outline clearly says differently.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 2, 2011)

I believe myself to be a rational and intellectual person, but Jove's post shows me that I have much progress to make if I wish to truly be such an individual. I realize that I do not need to keep bring up the subject of Ozai's fate, so I shall stop doing so now, although I wish to ask one other thing: why have none of the Avatars shown in the series enjoyed having their power, reveling in it? I am _not_ saying that they should be like Ozai or Sozin, but why could there not be an Avatar with a positive, optimistic personality like Sokka's? Why were they are so serious and grim?

Jove, how are you so calm, intellectual, and wise? One of my greatest aspirations in life is to be calm, stoic, and serene (which is why I admire such characters as Byakuya Kuchiki, Itachi Uchiha, and Sesshomaru so greatly), yet I am full of anger, frustration and turmoil (which is why Zuko is my favorite character in this series), so I must ask you how you have achieved such a state of existence. And I am very glad to hear that you are soon going to be married, although I am slightly jealous; recently, one of my cousins became engaged to be married, and so did a friend of mine. To be fair, they are twenty-nine and thirty years old, and I am only twenty-three, but I am still bothered by that fact. How old are you, Jove, might I ask?

On that subject, I usually do not care for the tradition of New Years' Resolutions, but this year, I have resolved that I will obtain both a steady full-time job and a steady romantic relationship by next December. Perhaps if I can obtain those, I shall have more peace and serenity in my life.

Now, to change the subject again, does anyone wish that the characters who are exclusive to the _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ trading card game would have greater depth and development from what they have already had, or is it better to leave them to the imagination of the audience?



Piekage said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing. Being able to deal with injuries and disabilities as well as they had suggests good character growth, and a reminder to the audience that just because we suffer from tragedy or physical impairment, we can still go on with our lives. I would think that a good lesson for kids to learn.



In that case, what about Azula and Ozai? Will they be able to recover from their injuries and traumas? I _do_ believe that it is good that the protagonists are able to overcome their difficulties and become stronger, but I am hoping that the antagonists can do so, as well.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm not serene, calm, or wise, as much as I'd like to be. I just saw that you had enough arguments going on, so I went a different route. Superstarseven likes to joke that I'm in my 40's, but I'm in my mid-20's.

As for the trading card game, obviously Afiko the Air Nomad Traitor is the most interesting, but I would have like to see Kinto the malicious prankster Waterbender canonized. He would have fit into the show perfectly, a mixture of Aang and Jet's personalities.


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## Shade (Jan 2, 2011)

You got the Artbook? _Sweet_. Congrats, man.



And the engagement thing too.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Urg....Okay, I have a few things to say that may become tldr.

1. DDJ just doesn't effin' get Avatar

2. If DDJ is a rational, intellectual person, then why does he feel the need to keep trying to assert that "fact"?.

3. Liking "mature" elements, fiction, and activities does not make oneself mature and smart. E.G. Mortal Kombat, cursing, drugs.

4. Nor is it "cool"

5. DDJ says he is open minded, yet cannot accept that a person can go through a war "unscathed". Being open minded means one is willing to think over what one has once thought was verbatim.

6. It is not DDJ's place to determine what is true or not by not accepting what could be possible. For example, in real life, many people escape disasters, battles and the entirety of wars unharmed. Audie Murphy for one, who even suggested the movie adaptation of his tour of duty be toned down, because it would seem too unrealistic to audiences that a five foot short guy with asthma could take on the German army like he did. 

7. If one is said to be closed minded, isn't it rather proving of that accusation if that one were to say they AREN'T closeminded?

8. I don't care what DDJ says, it's obvious he isn't enjoying Avatar. At least not in the way it should be.

9. Trying to live up to a fictional character...I have no comment.

Congratulations Jove! Nice score with the art book! And I guess that engagement thing is cool too .


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## Piekage (Jan 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In that case, what about Azula and Ozai? Will they be able to recover from their injuries and traumas? I _do_ believe that it is good that the protagonists are able to overcome their difficulties and become stronger, but I am hoping that the antagonists can do so, as well.



I think Azula can do so, with enough time. Whether or not she'll be redeemed is another matter entirely. I've seen some good post series fanfiction that all seem pretty believable in the context of the series (Water Tribe showcasing Evil Azula and the Heart of Fire trilogy focusing on a Good Azula), but of course Korra will(hopefully, if Bryke isn't feeling trollish) shed some light on Azula's fate. I'd imagine her 'alignment' would be tied to how she comes out of her insanity.

Ozai, well, I guess it's possible now that he's been humbled by Aang and realized the error of his ways, but I honestly see him being bitter for the rest of his days. Ozai was a decent man at some point and I imagine he did love his family to some degree, but if that's the case he casted aside the love of his family for power willingly. He's got no real reason to change himself; his remaining family hates him(well, there's Azula, but she has her own problems to work through), and with Aang around he'll never have the power he once had, so even if he's freed it'll be a hollow existince for him. Ozai lived for the power he wielded during the series, and with no way to regain that power and unable to enjoy what freedom from prison can offer, I don't think he'll get past what happened during the last ep.

But hey, could be wrong.

A few fanfics I've read likes to redeem Ozai, or at least show that he's not that much of a dick anymore, telling Zuko not to make the mistakes he's made and such. Though he still considers himself the Phoenix King, he's resigned himself to his fate.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 2, 2011)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> I'm not serene, calm, or wise, as much as I'd like to be. I just saw that you had enough arguments going on, so I went a different route. Superstarseven likes to joke that I'm in my 40's, but I'm in my mid-20's.



Well, you certainly were far more serene and calm that I was, so to me, you certainly seemed to be a paragon of those traits. And I am surprised that you are that you are so young; the fact that you are now engaged to be married led me to believe that you are older than that.



Two Turtle Joves said:


> As for the trading card game, obviously Afiko the Air Nomad Traitor is the most interesting, but I would have like to see Kinto the malicious prankster Waterbender canonized. He would have fit into the show perfectly, a mixture of Aang and Jet's personalities.



I myself would like to learn more about Jojo, the "Kissing Bandit," or Malu, a young airbender who was among the first of the casualties of the war. I wonder if a series of fan-fiction stories about each of these characters would be an interesting route to take?



ReikaiDemon said:


> Urg....Okay, I have a few things to say that may become tldr.
> 
> 1. DDJ just doesn't effin' get Avatar
> 
> ...



1: What does that mean? How do I "not get _Avatar?"_

2: Because I do not want people to ever doubt that fact.

3: I perfectly agree with this point, but at no point during this thread did I ever say or imply that I held such a belief.

4: Same as #3.

5: I can discuss the subjects of i*c*st and pedophilia without shame or hesitation, and as for the heroes surviving the war, I suppose that I am upset about what happened to Ozai and Azula, as they were some of my favorite characters. I shall make a greater effort in the future to be truly open-minded, especially if doing so will lead you to stop criticizing me.

6: Very well, I shall concede that point to you.

7: Same as #6.

8: You cannot feel my emotions, so you cannot possibly know whether I am or am not enjoying this series.

9: I never said that I wish to imitate any of those characters. I merely see many similarities between Zuko and myself, and thus sympathize with him, and I admire the fact that Byakuya, Itachi, and Sesshomaru can be calm in almost any situation, even the most dire of battles or struggles.

Now that you have said that, and that I have responded to it, Reikai Demon, will you _please_ stop criticizing my personality traits? It really is becoming annoying, and, for the third time, I have _never_ attacked another user's personality in this thread, or, to the best of my recollection, in any thread in this forum, so I ask that all users show that same respect to me.


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## Level7N00b (Jan 2, 2011)

Ozai is not going to be redeemed. I have no doubt about it. He's going to sit in his prison cell in anger for the rest of his life. 

Azula however, isn't as hopeless. I think with time, she can be healed. But as far as redeemed, I'm not sure. I wouldn't mind seeing her become a better person, but I would like nothing more for her to remain somewhat mean to everyone around her at the same time. You know, just to make sure she's really still Azula.



DemonDragonJ said:


> 1: What does that mean? How do I "not get _Avatar?"_



He means, you ask questions, and to be blunt, stupid questions as to why this or that does not happen in Avatar. Multiple people have explained it and you do sometimes persist and continuously ask why the natural balance of the show does not bend more to what you would prefer.

Like the "Are there other supernatural powers in Avatar?" question you had.


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## Stunna (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Doh! That's what the episode is called.....?
> 
> Why was I thinking Ember Island then?


To be fair, it takes place on Ember Island, but then again, so does _Ember Island Players_


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

> I'd like to point out that the only time we have seen Azula display sadness is when her dad told her to stay at home whilst he burned the world to the ground.


I still don't see her as evil.  She has mental problems, or at least that's the impression I got from it, especially one of the last episodes (forget which it was) when it showed her being pampered by maids and whatnot and then she had a breakdown. It was happening at the mirror scene... >.<

But yes, she is a villain, though I think she's not actually evil, just lost. 



> To be fair, it takes place on Ember Island, but then again, so does Ember Island Players




That's why I thought it was called Ember Island. I should look over the episode lists again...
I can't remember names of episodes for anything anyway, not even for Darker Than BLACK and I am in love with that series xD

@Two Turtle Joves:
Congratulations, Jove! :33


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 2, 2011)

Level7N00b said:


> Ozai is not going to be redeemed. I have no doubt about it. He's going to sit in his prison cell in anger for the rest of his life.
> 
> Azula however, isn't as hopeless. I think with time, she can be healed. But as far as redeemed, I'm not sure. I wouldn't mind seeing her become a better person, but I would like nothing more for her to remain somewhat mean to everyone around her at the same time. You know, just to make sure she's really still Azula.



I also do not believe that Ozai can redeem himself, and I have no desire for him to do so; he was the main villain of the series, and I believe that his is completely evil. As for Azula, I do believe that she has some chance of redeeming herself, but I am not certain if I wish for her to do so, as I like her as a villain.

I have another question, which I have asked before, but I wish to ask it again. What if Azula had decided to overthrow Ozai and become the ruler of the Fire Nation, and eventually, the world, herself? I have been told that she was not as powerful as Ozai, but she was far more intelligent and calculating, in my mind, and surely, the creators of the series could have made her more powerful, if they had chosen to do so. I must emphasize that I believe that the way the series did progress was very awesome and quite well-written, but would that not be an interesting "what if?/alternate universe"-type scenario?



Level7N00b said:


> Like the "Are there other supernatural powers in Avatar?" question you had.



In my defense, I was new to the series at that time, and I did not yet fully understand everything about the universe of _Avatar: the Last Airbender._

And on that subject, I am not certain if being the Avatar would be as awesome as it may initially seem to be. While the ability to manipulate the elements of nature is very impressive, I would much rather have Rogue's, Jean Grey's, or Professor X's powers, as they are far more versatile (as least in the manner in which I would use them) and can be used directly on other living beings.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

> Now that you have said that, and that I have responded to it, Reikai Demon, will you _please_ stop criticizing my personality traits? It really is becoming annoying, and, for the third time, I have _never_  attacked another user's personality in this thread, or, to the best of  my recollection, in any thread in this forum, so I ask that all users  show that same respect to me.


You just make it too easy, almost as if you were instigating it.

And willingness to talk about a few things others deem socially unacceptable is not open minded in of itself. Heck, it sounds pretty closeminded to think that one CAN'T be openminded if one DOESN'T talk about shocking things.


Terra Branford said:


> I still don't see her as evil.  She has mental problems, or at least that's the impression I got from it, especially one of the last episodes (forget which it was) when it showed her being pampered by maids and whatnot and then she had a breakdown. It was happening at the mirror scene... >.<
> 
> But yes, she is a villain, though I think she's not actually evil, just lost.


Zuko was lost, Azula is amoral.

Granted, she does have a chance at salvation, but that still doesn't excuse her massive acts of evil. She still needs to accept responsibility for what she has done. Zuko was fortunate not to have gone as far as Azula, making his debts a drop in the ocean compared to Azula.





DemonDragonJ said:


> I also do not believe that Ozai can redeem himself, and I have no desire for him to do so; he was the main villain of the series, and I believe that his is completely evil. As for Azula, I do believe that she has some chance of redeeming herself, but I am not certain if I wish for her to do so, as I like her as a villain.
> 
> I have another question, which I have asked before, but I wish to ask it again. What if Azula had decided to overthrow Ozai and become the ruler of the Fire Nation, and eventually, the world, herself? I have been told that she was not as powerful as Ozai, but she was far more intelligent and calculating, in my mind, and surely, the creators of the series could have made her more powerful, if they had chosen to do so. I must emphasize that I believe that the way the series did progress was very awesome and quite well-written, but would that not be an interesting "what if?/alternate universe"-type scenario?
> 
> ...


It's not about being awesome, it's about duty to preserving peace in the world. Another thing is that you need to stop judging Avatar on Gargoyles, X-Men, whatever merits, and judge it on it's own merits. I also feel that you prefer to homogenize your "favored" series, I think that might remove everything unique about those titles if they each try to be one thing...It seems like an affront to the creators of those series.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> And willingness to talk about a few things others deem socially unacceptable is not open minded in of itself. Heck, it sounds pretty closeminded to think that one CAN'T be openminded if one DOESN'T talk about shocking things.



Then how can I be _truly_ open-minded? I wish to be so, as being open-minded is a very important aspect of my overall philosophy and outlook on life. I dislike seeing or hearing about other people being close-minded, and I do not wish to be hypocritical or self-contradicting, as I believe that hypocrisy is a very negative trait.



ReikaiDemon said:


> It's not about being awesome, it's about duty to preserving peace in the world. Another thing is that you need to stop judging Avatar on Gargoyles, X-Men, whatever merits, and judge it on it's own merits. I also feel that you prefer to homogenize your "favored" series, I think that might remove everything unique about those titles if they each try to be one thing...It seems like an affront to the creators of those series.



I have judged _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ on its own merits, without comparing it to another series. When I finished watching the final episode, I stated that I found it to be a series that contained action, comedy, drama, and even some romance, and was overall very exciting, entertaining, and occasionally emotionally-stirring. While it is true that this series is not my favorite western animated series, that itself is not a comparison to other series, and I also stated that I believe that _Avatar_ is one of the best western animated series to be made in the past decade, but I never said that it was so because of being similar to another western animated series.

To be more detailed, my three favorite western animated series are, in order, _Reboot, Gargoyles,_ and _Avatar: the Last Airbender._ Each series has its own distinct traits that appeal to me and make them what they are, and I therefore have no desire to blend them with each other. Doing so would be akin to mixing two or more of my favorite foods, each of which is different from the others, which may cause their individual elements to clash and cause the result to be less appealing than the items were prior to the combining. I like how each series is different from the other two, and if they were all the same, they each lose their appeal to me.

I hope that that is a sufficient explanation of my thoughts and beliefs on this subject.

Now, to change the subject, what type of companions might Korra gain in her quest? I am hoping that she will have at least one companion from each major faction, just as Aang did, but I am hoping that they will be different from Aang's companions. Or might she have no companions at all, preferring to work alone? With so little information confirmed about the new series, there is much for the fans to speculate about it.


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## ElementX (Jan 2, 2011)

I think it's a testament to the writers and the directors of the series that they were able to take a character as unsympathetic and seemingly beyond redemption as Azula, and manage to make you understand and feel sorry for her over the course of the last few episodes. I don't believe that a character necessarily needs to be sympathetic to be a good character (especially in the case of a villain) but that doesn't stop a character from having depth. I think the biggest tragedy with Azula is not that you think she could have been redeemed (if she could it would have been a lot harder than Zuko, that's for sure) but that you feel that she is a victim of circumstance. We have no way of knowing if Azula was born a sociopath, but it's likely that Ozai didn't help the situation. Zuko at least had his mother and Iroh. Despite all the suffering that Zuko went through, you kind of end up feeling like Azula got the short straw, and that reversal was really well done.


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## Burke (Jan 2, 2011)

And then Jove got some.
to sum it up
best christmas ever 



Two Turtle Joves said:


> I'm not serene, calm, or wise, as much as I'd like to be. I just saw that you had enough arguments going on, so I went a different route. Superstarseven likes to joke that I'm in my 40's, but I'm in my mid-20's.
> 
> As for the trading card game, obviously Afiko the Air Nomad Traitor is the most interesting, but I would have like to see Kinto the malicious prankster Waterbender canonized. He would have fit into the show perfectly, a mixture of Aang and Jet's personalities.



How long has avatar had a TCG


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## Buskuv (Jan 2, 2011)

If Azula is somehow less "evil" by virtue of the fact that we know she had a shitty childhood then Ozai could be assumed just the same--I doubt his family life was nurturing or loving, and probably just the same as passed to Azula.  Having Azula show signs of human weakness doesn't make her any less of a villain, just a well written character.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

N??ps said:


> And then Jove got some.
> to sum it up
> best christmas ever
> 
> ...


Since time began...On motorcycles


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

> How long has avatar had a TCG


Are the giant profile cards the game cards? They are as old as the first DVD releases, if I remember correctly. If by "game cards" from the earlier posts meant _those_ things, I got them in the DVD packs, had no idea they were game cards.... xD

*Dang, those are some big game cards lol*



> Granted, she does have a chance at salvation, but that still doesn't excuse her massive acts of evil. She still needs to accept responsibility for what she has done. Zuko was fortunate not to have gone as far as Azula, making his debts a drop in the ocean compared to Azula.


Who said anything about excusing her acts of evil?


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

I doubt Korra will have more than Tenzin and maybe one other person. in her group. There's only so much they can fit into 12 episodes.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Are the giant profile cards the game cards? They are as old as the first DVD releases, if I remember correctly. If by "game cards" from the earlier posts meant _those_ things, I got them in the DVD packs, had no idea they were game cards.... xD
> 
> *Dang, those are some big game cards lol*
> 
> ...


Then why are you defending Azula?


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

If I remember correctly, isn't Terra an Azula fangirl? They're pretty rabid and persistent.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

> I doubt Korra will have more than Tenzin and maybe one other person. in her group. There's only so much they can fit into 12 episodes.



Only 3? It does seem likely that they can only include that much... *sigh*
I can't believe we are only going to get 12 episodes. What can they possible fit in that short amount? 

I hope it doesn't have a boring plot.... 



ReikaiDemon said:


> Then why are you defending Azula?



Just because I was defending her doesn't mean I was trying to excuse her evil acts. All I was pointing out is that she isn't really evil, but just mislead and manipulated.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Only 3? It does seem likely that they can only include that much... *sigh*
> I can't believe we are only going to get 12 episodes. What can they possible fit in that short amount?
> 
> I hope it doesn't have a boring plot....
> ...


Well, sorry, but that sounds like she should be forgiven for her actions because of the circumstances of her behavior. You mean to tell me, Azula, who just loves to manipulate people and cause pain both physically and emotionally is not evil?


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, sorry, but that sounds like she should be forgiven for her actions because of the circumstances of her behavior. You mean to tell me, Azula, who just loves to manipulate people and cause pain both physically and emotionally is not evil?



Sorry it sounds that way to you....

She COULD be forgiven for her actions, if Gaang wishes it and she is sorry about it. Zuko's evil acts might not have been as bad as hers, but they forgave him and he was "evil" at the time.

Why do you think she loves to do those things? She grew up with a psycho father who burned his son's face and banished him and taught his daughter to kill Avatars, even if they are children.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Only 3? It does seem likely that they can only include that much... *sigh*
> I can't believe we are only going to get 12 episodes. What can they possible fit in that short amount?
> 
> I hope it doesn't have a boring plot....



One arc. Basically like the Ba Sing Se arc of Book 2 as the entire series. Which would be brilliant.

Some speculate that like the first series was originally picked up for 13 and then extended, so will Korra. Sounds like conjecture to me; Mike and Bryan certainly seem like they are containing this story to 12 episodes.

Then on to the story of the first Avatar.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

It is always good to know what Bryke said about her:

“Is Azula really as evil as she seems? Or is there more to her?

Mike: As with all the Avatar characters, even Azula has a softer side, though it's buried very deep. As " The Beach" and " Sozin's Comet" showed, she has a lot of unresolved issues with her mother. She really feels that her mother didn't love her as much as Zuko, and this drives her crazy, literally.

Bryan: There are obviously some truly evil people in the world, but in the case of Azula, her repressed emotions and jealousies corroded her spirit and made her become that way. It is possible that she could turned out better in a healthier environment, but growing up in a royal family of a nation seeking world domination proved to exacerbate her problems. But Zuko and Katara spared her life, and who knows she might have a chance to heal."

Source: Sozin's Comet book, page 63

The use of fear to control people was an overcompensation to hide her insecurity. Azula couldn't trust or rely on anyone for love because she thought her mother loved Zuko and Ozai's love was conditional. Ozai was corrupting and using her as a tool and she knew it. What a great parent Ozai was! Ursa was too focused on Zuko and didn't ask Ozai to stop neglecting her son and corrupting her daughter. Exploiting, corrupting and pressuring children are forms of emotional child abuse.Even Toph described the Fire Nation Royal Family as messed up.


Well, if she becomes the villain in Korra, she will pull another Sozin and her descendants will end up like Ozai or Zuko. Or she will be an Uchiha wannabe.
Azula vs. Zuko might look like Uchiha vs Senju.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> One arc. Basically like the Ba Sing Se arc of Book 2 as the entire series. Which would be brilliant.
> 
> Some speculate that like the first series was originally picked up for 13 and then extended, so will Korra. Sounds like conjecture to me; Mike and Bryan certainly seem like they are containing this story to 12 episodes.
> 
> Then on to the story of the first Avatar.


Awww.... 

Well, I hope they make it good and the story not flat or anything. If they make it bad, it might just ruin the series for a lot of newcomers. >.>

That would actually be very interesting hearing about the first Avatar.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Sorry it sounds that way to you....
> 
> She COULD be forgiven for her actions, if Gaang wishes it and she is sorry about it. Zuko's evil acts might not have been as bad as hers, but they forgave him and he was "evil" at the time.
> 
> Why do you think she loves to do those things? She grew up with a psycho father who burned his son's face and banished him and taught his daughter to kill Avatars, even if they are children.


Why does the Gaang have a say over Azula's sins? Isn't it up to the countless people she has wronged? The fact of the matter is, she has never shown remorse for her actions. She wasn't forced to enjoy what she did, she just does.

And it still doesn't matter if she did have a malicious childhood, she grew up to be evil, what matters is the grievances she caused others. It's still her fault as much as it is Ozais fault, and regardless of what she turns out to be in the future, she needs to accept responsibility of her actions. It doesn't reduce the severity of evilness of her ill deeds, it's just a reason. 

I mean, imagine if you're from a village that has suffered a siege led by Azula, imagine that your family was lost. Does it affect your pain any less or more if you were told "it's not her fault she was evil"? No.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

^ Please read the interview I just posted. It explained everything. Azula needs therapy and good parenting.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

> Mike: As with all the Avatar characters, even Azula has a softer side, though it's buried very deep. As " The Beach" and " Sozin's Comet" showed, *she has a lot of unresolved issues with her mother. She really feels that her mother didn't love her as much as Zuko, and this drives her crazy, literally.*


Yea! Even Mike knows it! :33

@ReikaiDemon:
Who else has she harmed besides Aang and his friends? I'm sure others, if there are others, would forgive a girl who's been hurt and confused and lost her way and became crazy. You do know that if a child feels as if they aren't love, things WILL happen to their sanity, right? You wouldn't believe the depth of pain and frustrations/whatnot I've seen to children/teens who feel that way and the way they act out or try to get their parent's love and attention.

Its not her fault. She's done evil things, but she is NOT evil.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

That's because Mike made her.

But regardless, Bryan considers Azula to be truly evil, we just know why.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *That's because Mike made her.*
> 
> But regardless, Bryan considers Azula to be truly evil, we just know why.



And did Bryan make her or was it just Mike?

If it was just Mike, his thoughts and opinions on it matters more than Bryan's. lol

The fact of the matter is, yes, she has done some horrible things, but that doesn't make her evil. She's been mislead and hurt. People change, people have some pretty f'd up reasons to act the way they do.

She's in deeper than Zuko, yes, but she's just as forgivable as he is or at least, not really "evil" evil.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

Gansu said:


> Bryan: *There are obviously some truly evil people in the world, but in the case of Azula,*



Bryan excluded Azula from the truly evil people. Mike and Bryan made the whole show not just Azula.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

But, alas, on the show she was evil.

The evidence that she had a more compassionate side comes from The Beach. Take _that_ for what it's worth.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Yea! Even Mike knows it! :33
> 
> @ReikaiDemon:
> Who else has she harmed besides Aang and his friends? I'm sure others, if there are others, would forgive a girl who's been hurt and confused and lost her way and became crazy. You do know that if a child feels as if they aren't love, things WILL happen to their sanity, right? You wouldn't believe the depth of pain and frustrations/whatnot I've seen to children/teens who feel that way and the way they act out or try to get their parent's love and attention.
> ...


You know what I meant, they both wrote her character.

So you would seriously consider forgiving Azula over the charred bodies of your family?

It IS her fault, seriously, pretty much almost every evil person has this "excuse". But it DOESN'T excuse them, same with Azula. Fault and reason are different things, there is a reason for her behavior, but reason doesn't make her less evil. Nor does it dissolve fault.




Gansu said:


> Bryan excluded Azula from the truly evil people.  Mike and Bryan made the whole show not just Azula.


No, he didn't


> Bryan: There are obviously some truly evil people in the world, but in   the case of Azula, her repressed emotions and jealousies corroded her   spirit and made her become *that way.*


As in the factors of her life made her truly evil.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

@ Two Turtle Joves: Do you Azula more than Bryke?  Having a good side that is buried due to circumstances doesn't mean pure evil.

@ Reika Demon: A person might not be forgiven but it doesn't stop his/her redemption. If I use your logic, Iroh wouldn't be truly redeemed because Lu Ten, his son died for a lie. Yes, Bryan excluded her from them. Read the interview again please.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> So you would seriously consider forgiving Azula over the charred bodies of your family?



Come on Rekky; that's dangerously close to Jet's logic. If she's rehabilitated, then at the very least you should acknowledge her.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Gansu said:


> @ Two Turtle Joves: Do you Azula more than Bryke?  Having a good side that is buried due to circumstances doesn't mean pure evil.
> 
> @ Reika Demon: A person might not be forgiven but it doesn't stop his/her redemption. If I use your logic, Iroh wouldn't be truly redeemed because Lu Ten, his son died for a lie. Yes, Bryan excluded her from them. Read the interview again please.


But the difference is that Azula has never put effort towards her redemption. That's the difference between evil and good. Until Azula does something about her crimes, she remains evil rather than misguided.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

That is what the therapy is for. She was misguided and even her hallucination showed that.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Come on Rekky; that's dangerously close to Jet's logic. If she's rehabilitated, then at the very least you should acknowledge her.


That's just common thinking, sure, there will be a few people in the Avatar world to forgive her, but only when she sees the error of her ways. The pain still remains potent, but the capacity to forgive depends on the victim, and what the aggressor has done to redeem themselves. 

Once Azula is rehabilitated, there will still be people to hate and blame her, but then she has the right to accept forgiveness. She can either live with guilt, or try and help those that she had wronged.

Some will forgive her because once she had been healed, she won't be that person any more.

But one other thing will still remain. She will acknowledge that at one point in her life, she was evil, she did bad things, and while she is no longer that person, it was still her fault. What remains to be done with that is up to her victims and herself.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

Azula herself was a victim of emotional child abuse. Will Zuko ask the Air Nomads for forgiveness? No,because they are gone long time ago. But he can do his best and which he actually doing after the end of the war.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Gansu said:


> Azula herself was a victim of emotional child abuse. Will Zuko ask the Air Nomads for forgiveness? No,because they are gone long time ago. But he can do his best and which he actually doing after the end of the war.


The genocide of the Air Nomads was a century ago, Zuko had no part in their deaths. It is not his personal responsibility or right to ask that.

This is about personal responsibility, Azula is at fault for what she had personally done, what is done with that fault, as I said, is up to her and her victims.

And why are we concerned if others forgive her or not? It's up to them, not us.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

Did Zuko knock every door in the Water Tribes and the Earth kingdom asking for forgiveness?  Even if few persons from the earth kingdom or the water tribe didn't forgive him, was he irredeemable? No.The same thing applies to Azula. Forgiven by many or not, she might be redeemed.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

@ReikaiDemon:

You obviously didn't read my post about children and the inflences that come from not being loved. Put yourself in her situation with an evil parent that doesn't love you unless you harm people and become like him and a mother you believe with all your heart, doesn't love you. Let's see how evil you turnout.



> So you would seriously consider forgiving Azula over the charred bodies of your family?



Me? You ask if I'd forgive? If she was truly sorry, yes, I would. My family, because I know them and they say it to me all the time about these sorts of situations, would want me to forgive a person who was honestly sorry and never acted that way again. Well, _maybe_ not my father xD

Aang is forgiving. Sokka proved to be as well, and so did Toph. The only one who had a "problem" forgiving, was Katara. She lost family to the Fire Nation and even SHE managed to forgive.

No, I could tell you many "true" evil things. What she has done is evil, yes, but not _true_ evil. True evil is like in the Batman movies when The Joker was going to have the innocent people decide on death or giving other people up making them "evil and tainted", or having the "evil" people pick to kill even more innocent people than they probably did before they were caught. There are a lot of "true" evils in this world. Azula's acts are evil, but they don't match up to _true evil_.

Who else has Azula hurt besides Gaang and her own personal friends? You haven't answered that yet....  Either way, I'm sure they'd forgive. A lot of people are forgiving. 



> Fault and reason are different things, there is a reason for her behavior, but reason doesn't make her less evil. Nor does it dissolve fault.



Mike summed it up pretty well. Bryan sums it up well.



> There are obviously some truly evil people in the world, *but in the case of Azula*, her repressed emotions and jealousies corroded her spirit and made her become that way. *It is possible that she could turned out better in a healthier environment, but growing up in a royal family of a nation seeking world domination proved to exacerbate her problems.*



"but in the case of Azula" he is showing a difference from "truly evil people" in the world by saying "*but* in the case of Azula" meaning he is showing us she isn't "truly" evil, just mislead/hurt and has grown up in a terrible environment. 

But I could ask my Literature Professor or my Literature friends (they majoring in it [I've just only begun]) what the "but in the case of Azula" could mean from the previous part of the sentence....

Consider the circumstances in which a man was raised before you think you can predict his intentions/heart.

EDIT:



> Did Zuko knock every door in the Water Tribes and the Earth kingdom asking for forgiveness? Even if few persons from the earth kingdom or the water tribe didn't forgive him, was he irredeemable? No.The same thing applies to Azula. Forgiven by many or not, she might be redeemed.


I think Gansu's post is talking about him attacking their village for Aang, which is still bad believe it or not xD


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 2, 2011)

Gansu said:


> Did Zuko knock every door in the Water Tribes and the Earth kingdom asking for forgiveness?  Even if few persons from the earth kingdom or the water tribe didn't forgive him, was he irredeemable? No.The same thing applies to Azula. Forgiven by many or not, she might be redeemed.



Oh, balderdash. The culpabilities of Zuko and Azula in this war are fundamentally different.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

^It doesn't mean that she is beyond redemption.


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## Noah (Jan 2, 2011)

Stop your argues and debates, people! The true answer is obvious!

Public execution!

...drowning by urine bending!


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Gansu said:


> Did Zuko knock every door in the Water Tribes and the Earth kingdom asking for forgiveness? The same thing applies to Azula. Forgiven or not, she might be redeemed.


Zuko is the Firelord now, he can benefit victims of the war in his position. 

But Zuko himself did not cause as much severe trouble for others. And I said Zuko was not comparable to Azula because of their differences in actions. 

Zuko had very little personal blame to take that wasn't already forgiven, he did however, inherit the responsibilities of the Firelord, so by proxy, while the war was not his fault, and the losses occurred was not his fault, it is his duty to rectify them. 

So in hindsight, he'd be doing MORE good than he had done bad to his name. Well, at least in the name of Zuko, in the name of the royal Firenation family, it's his duty to repair the damage.


Terra Branford said:


> @ReikaiDemon:
> 
> You obviously didn't read my post about children and the inflences that come from not being loved. Put yourself in her situation with an evil parent that doesn't love you unless you harm people and become like him and a mother you believe with all your heart, doesn't love you. Let's see how evil you turnout.
> 
> ...


Yes, I can understand that you may forgive Azula, if she has taken steps to be genuinely sorry for her actions. But it's entirely unrealistic to think that everyone should feel the same way you should for Azula. It's pure fact that while there will be people in the Avatar world to forgive her, there too remains people in the Avatar world to continue blaming her. It's just their right to do so. 

And many criminals had the same kind of childhoods, they still have personal responsibility for their actions.

I hold no personal feelings of condemnation or absolve for Azula, I just think that she is evil from the context and effect of her actions, not the reason for her behavior. Until she realizes the deeds to her name, until she has feelings of guilt, until she stops enjoying the pain of others, her status of evil still remains. I do think it's possible that she will one day have the words "WAS evil" to her name, but until then, she is "still evil". Just because I recognize Azula as evil, doesn't mean I won't forgive her (even though she has done nothing to me, being a cartoon and all. This is where I feel like we have no right in forgiving her for actions she had done to others.).

For Katara, she didn't forgive the Southern Raider, she felt that he wasn't worth her effort in revenge anymore, because he ended up being a pathetic, sniveling man.

And I'm sorry, but I'd recognize examples of evil in real life over examples of evil in Batman or rather, any fiction when arguing the case of morals. 

While there is nothing wrong with that, I feel it's a bit one sided to just learn from fiction.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

@ReikaiDemon:
My way about her? Mike and Bryan even told you she's not truly evil...but okay, sure.



> For Katara, she didn't forgive the Southern Raider, she felt that he wasn't worth her effort in revenge anymore, because he ended up being a pathetic, sniveling man.


Didn't I say Zuko? That she forgave Zuko...? Okay, I didn't say Zuko in that part, but I was talking about Zuko. xD Its why I was talking about Aang, Toph and Sokka's forgiveness in a union like that:



> Aang is forgiving. Sokka proved to be as well, and so did Toph. The only one who had a "problem" forgiving (Zuko's name was supposed to be right here ), was Katara. She lost family to the Fire Nation and even SHE managed to forgive.



Plus, I already talked about Zuko's evils being forgiven before that, so I thought everyone knew what I was talking about lol



> And I'm sorry, but I'd recognize examples of evil in real life over examples of evil in Batman or rather, any fiction when arguing the case of morals.


Yet your judging evils done in a cartoon?


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

Everyone deserve a second chance even the Fire Lord, that was what Aang said in The Avatar and The Fire Lord. Zuko said to his father that banishment made him a better person and perhaps his father's time in jail could redeem him.

 Understanding a person doesn't justify his/her actions.  Azula was wrong, true. She must heal then she could help Zuko to make up for her deeds that been committed in the name of The Fire Nation. What about Ozai and Ursa? Why we just blame the kids and forget the parents? Ursa didn't mean to hurt Azula but accidentally she did.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @ReikaiDemon:
> My way about her? Mike and Bryan even told you she's not truly evil...but okay, sure.
> 
> 
> ...


No, I'm judging your application of your morals to Azula's. Which you also brought up people who became evil in real life, which is arguable on a non-fictional basis.

Also, you weren't very clear in that regard, so I was confused about whether or not you were mentioning that Southern Raider guy.

I'd say Katara was blaming Zuko more for betraying them, her feelings of the Fire Nation were transferred onto Zuko because he used to work for them. 

Once Zuko redeemed himself of what he did to them, Katara forgave Zuko, but not the firenation.





Gansu said:


> Everyone deserve a second chance even the Fire  Lord, that was what Aang said in The Avatar and The Fire Lord. Zuko said  to his father that banishment made him a better person and perhaps his  father's time in jail could redeem him.
> 
> Understanding a person doesn't justify his/her actions.  Azula was  wrong, true. She must heal then she could help Zuko to make up for her  deeds that been committed in the name of The Fire Nation. What about  Ozai and Ursa? Why we just blame the kids and forget the parents? Ursa  didn't mean to hurt Azula but accidentally she did.


That's what I'm arguing about! ARGH! Evil people still have the chance  to redeem themselves, taking account for your actions and accepting that  they were wrong is what an evil person needs to do to redeem  themselves.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

@ReikaiDemon:
Last time I checked Batmas isn't real....and I don't believe I posted real-life examples of truly evil actions other than saying I COULD bring up real-life examples of evil. It doesn't matter if its fiction or not, evil is evil. lol
If someone killed someone in real life, its evil. If someone in a fiction killed someone in a fiction, its still evil.

I know, sorry about being confusing. I forgot to add it again, though I thought after I finished the post others would catch it so I was also just very lazy and thought "they'll get it...right?" 

Well, for whatever reasons Katara hated him for, she managed to forgive him even though he tried to kill them all time and time again, especially sending um, what was that guys name? Had an eye on his forehead? lol



> That's what I'm arguing about! ARGH! Evil people still have the chance to redeem themselves, taking account for your actions and accepting that they were wrong is what an evil person needs to do to redeem themselves.


Yes, we know that. 

But Azula isn't "truly evil" like you think. Mike and Bryan even say so. She's just a little bit over what Zuko has done. Truly evil in the show, is what Firelord Ozai was doing and did. That's true evil.


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

Katara not forgiving the Fire Nation didn't stop Zuko from restoring the honor of his nation. The Fire Nation people have to know the truth because it is their right before they have a chance to redeem themselves.

@Terra Branford: The name of the assassin sent by Zuko called Combustion Man according to Sokka. XD


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @ReikaiDemon:
> Last time I checked Batmas isn't real....and I don't believe I posted real-life examples of truly evil actions other than saying I COULD bring up real-life examples of evil. It doesn't matter if its fiction or not, evil is evil. lol
> If someone killed someone in real life, its evil. If someone in a fiction killed someone in a fiction, its still evil.
> 
> ...


I wasn't talking about batman, I was talking about your point that unloving parents could make you evil.

The example in Batman was a thought experiment taken to a glurgy, unrealistic level when all the prisoners unanimously vetoed the detonation of the other boat. I just don't think it's a valid point in arguing for the morals of evil people.

CM, short for Chicken Man, er, I mean Combustion Man.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 2, 2011)

Ah, well, still. Why can't real-life evils be applied to fiction evils and the reasons as to why people act that way? Its pretty dumb sounding if one can't apply them like that. Evil is evil no matter what its in and reasons are reasons no matter what its in: fiction or real. :/

Oh yea, Combustion Man xD

(wait, why was it "glurgy, unrealistic level" in Batman? You don't think people would do what happened in the movie in real life? Why? I know I wouldn't vote another boat to death no matter who was in it....)


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## Gansu (Jan 2, 2011)

Unloving parents can make normal kids evil. Zuko was a clear example.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 2, 2011)

Gansu said:


> Katara not forgiving the Fire Nation didn't stop Zuko from restoring the honor of his nation. The Fire Nation people have to know the truth because it is their right before they have a chance to redeem themselves.
> 
> @Terra Branford: The name of the assassin sent by Zuko called Combustion Man according to Sokka. XD


Yes, but it's not the same Firenation anymore when Zuko came to power. Katara may still blame the previous regime, especially Ozai. It's clear that she hasn't forgiven the aggressor that directly wronged her.





Terra Branford said:


> Ah, well, still. Why can't real-life  evils be applied to fiction evils and the reasons as to why people act  that way? Its pretty dumb sounding if one can't apply them like that.  Evil is evil no matter what its in and reasons are reasons no matter  what its in: fiction or real. :/
> 
> Oh yea, Combustion Man xD
> 
> (wait, why was it "glurgy, unrealistic level" in Batman? You don't think  people would do what happened in the movie in real life? Why? I know I  wouldn't vote another boat to death no matter who was in it....)


No, you could compare the evils of life and fiction to each other, it's  just that TDK was a bad example, because the boat with the hardened  criminals threw out the remote. I doubt you would share the same mindset  with a hardened criminal, so comparing yourself to one is not  applicable.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> No, you could compare the evils of life and fiction to each other, it's  just that TDK was a bad example, because the boat with the hardened  criminals threw out the remote. I doubt you would share the same mindset  with a hardened criminal, so comparing yourself to one is not  applicable.


I will repost my earlier quote:"Consider the circumstances in which a man was raised before _you think _you can _predict his intentions/heart._"

You cannot be serious about knowing how someone will react. I never compared myself to a hardened criminal, I said I'd never decide to blow of a ship *full of people*, regardless of *what they have done*. They could be full of murders and I wouldn't blow them up. Why? Because that would make me no different than a murderer. 

Many criminals regret what they have done and actually change, so you cannot *know* what a criminal would do in such a situation. That's absurd thinking. Its like me telling you how you'd react to a situation only YOU know how you'd react to....

People change. Criminals change. Besides, you never know, most of the criminals on that ship had probably robbed a bank or something and didn't actually kill anyone. :/


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 3, 2011)

Gansu said:


> Unloving parents can make normal kids evil. Zuko was a clear example.


I'm not arguing against it, it's just that we got into this debate with  the application of real life catalysts for evil, and then the  application of a rather unrealistic example of redemption in evil people  from TDK.

But, as long as we're in it...Many people had unloving parents, but they turned out "alright" morally. Zuko and Azula had a slightly different case of loving parents shaping their characters. Ursa loved Zuko unconditionally, while Ozai loved Azula because of her second born status and perhaps later, her ability. 

Although, that's not to say Ursa didn't love Azula, perhaps she did. Perhaps Azula saw Ursa's doting on Zuko as preference of him over her. Lets face it, Zuko was kind of a pussy as a kid, Azula seemed quite independent, despite being so dependent on attention and the favors of Ozai. So while maybe Ursa loved both of them, she felt Zuko needed more care than Azula, who seemed emotionally strong. 

That's kinda funny, their problems came out of their parents loving them too much more than too little...


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## Gansu (Jan 3, 2011)

Toph told the gAang to consider the way Zuko was raised by his father. Katara felt sorry for Azula, so she might forgive her. Certainly, she knew how Ozai corrupted and abused her psychologically.

Zuko himself said banishment made him a better person and  let's not forget Iroh. Azula had no guidance. Their environment were completely different, even Bryke said that.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> ----So while maybe Ursa loved both of them, she felt Zuko needed *more care than Azula, who seemed emotionally strong*.



A parent should know that's when its a problem and they need more attention...Wow, Ursa must have been a bad mom to Azula. Dang, poor girl 

It shouldn't have mattered who "appeared" emotionally stronger than the other, a parent shouldn't have decided to give more love and care to one child than another instead of both.

That's just screwed up.


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## Gansu (Jan 3, 2011)

^ And Ursa knew Ozai neglected Zuko but she didn't ask him to stop it.  When she returns, she will see the result of trusting Ozai.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I will repost my earlier quote:"Consider the circumstances in which a man was raised before _you think _you can _predict his intentions/heart._"
> 
> You cannot be serious about knowing how someone will react. I never compared myself to a hardened criminal, I said I'd never decide to blow of a ship *full of people*, regardless of *what they have done*. They could be full of murders and I wouldn't blow them up. Why? Because that would make me no different than a murderer.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid your vagueness has confused me yet again



> I know I  wouldn't vote another boat to death no matter who was in it....


 I inferred that since you brought up the example of redemption from the boat experiment from the criminal's side, that I thought you'd remain on that point.

The problem was the entire body of the criminals on that boat unanimously agreeing on not to blow the other boat up. They aren't blue collar criminals, they're maximum security convicts. The kind that shank and rape each other, not grand larcenists or people who dodged their taxes. While it's true that some of them would object to detonating the other boat, and that some are regretful of their actions, or are not guilty, there still remains those convicts who do not share those feelings. And consider the context as well, Gotham is one of the most violent crime ridden cities in comics.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 3, 2011)

@ReikaiDemon:

Vagueness? I wasn't being vague...What confused you? That seemed pretty straight forward. :/

Here's what I said again...

*Spoiler*: __ 





Terra Branford said:


> I will repost my earlier quote:"Consider the circumstances in which a man was raised before _you think _you can _predict his intentions/heart._"
> 
> You cannot be serious about knowing how someone will react. I never compared myself to a hardened criminal, I said I'd never decide to blow of a ship *full of people*, regardless of *what they have done*. They could be full of murders and I wouldn't blow them up. Why? Because that would make me no different than a murderer.
> 
> ...








Again you're deciding to pick the actions of another person. Again you think you know how someone will react simply because of something they DID in the past. You cannot know _who will react_ and _how_. You cannot seriously think you know criminals wouldn't have done what they did in that movie. :amazed

You must have agreed with The Joker when he thought people would be so evil and pitted against each other that they would become exactly what he was....


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> A parent should know that's when its a problem and they need more attention...Wow, Ursa must have been a bad mom to Azula. Dang, poor girl
> 
> It shouldn't have mattered who "appeared" emotionally stronger than the other, a parent shouldn't have decided to give more love and care to one child than another instead of both.
> 
> That's just screwed up.


Well, I guess that's just dramatic irony. But I don't think it's Ursa's fault alone. I think it's a variety of factors, the day Ursa was exiled was probably what finally broke her. Instead of blaming Ozai, she blamed Zuko, not only for seemingly, stealing her love, but also thinking that it's Zuko's fault that she was banished. It could also be a misunderstanding that Azula, thinking that Ursa didn't coddle her, meant that she didn't love her. Or that because Ursa didn't love Azula in the same way Ozai did, probably mistook that she held no love for her. I don't think it's anyones fault but Ozai's really.





Terra Branford said:


> @ReikaiDemon:
> 
> Vagueness? I wasn't being vague...What confused you? That seemed pretty straight forward. :/
> 
> ...


My problem was that it was unrealistic because it was ALL THE PRISONERS agreeing not to blow up the boat. 

I'm saying while it's believable that a percentage of the prisoners  won't do it, there are still a percentage of prisoners who WILL do it. 

And the Joker's belief in TDK was that everyone is selfish, obviously a far throw from my belief that NOT EVERYONE is selfish.

The wallbanger was that every other prisoner was reserved in silence and  no protest from the others when ONE prisoner stepped up, and removed  the option to blow up the other boat. It is obviously a glurge scene for  the holier than thou people than an adroit, realistic commentary on  human morals.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, I guess that's just dramatic irony. But I don't think it's Ursa's fault alone. I think it's a variety of factors, the day Ursa was exiled was probably what finally broke her. Instead of blaming Ozai, she blamed Zuko, not only for seemingly, stealing her love, but also thinking that it's Zuko's fault that she was banished. *It could also be a misunderstanding that Azula, thinking that Ursa didn't coddle her, meant that she didn't love her.* Or that because Ursa didn't love Azula in the same way Ozai did, probably mistook that she held no love for her. I don't think it's anyones fault but Ozai's really.



Misunderstanding? How is a child to know that when a parent doesn't coddle you, show signs of loving you or pays more attention to a OLDER sibling (?), that it means they still love them, they just don't show it to only them?

Gosh, Azula had it 100x worse than Zuko yet that boy cried about it all the time >.<

Ursa was a horrible mother. I can't believe a mother would do that, fiction or not. That is just messed up. No wonder Zuko had it better until his father banished him. I'd rather have a scar on my face and be banished with one parent's love then to continue to strive for one parent's love because the other just didn't love me or show the love. 

Azula must have been really desperate for a parent's love to follow and listen to her crazy father... 
Ozai didn't love Azula, he used her talent for Firebending/Lightingbending and made her into his slave-thing to hunt and find people to hurt them. Ozai doesn't love anyone but himself and power. Or that's how it comes off....

(Reikai...why do  you keep deleting your posts? >.< It messes up my post when I quote you before you delete it lol)


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## Gansu (Jan 3, 2011)

Ursa wasn't a perfect mother. She did love Azula but she didn't think straight. Her biggest mistake was the inability to stop Ozai from abusing their children because she didn't know he was abusive. Good intentions but bad actions.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Misunderstanding? How is a child to know that when a parent doesn't coddle you, show signs of loving you or pays more attention to a OLDER sibling (?), that it means they still love them, they just don't show it to only them?
> 
> Gosh, Azula had it 100x worse than Zuko yet that boy cried about it all the time >.<
> 
> ...


Because new people keep posting as I write a post, after I press enter, I then reply to the new posts and expect more people to post again. I want to get rid of back to back posts by copying my new post and pasting it in the post before it.

It happens to lots of families, it doesn't make Ursa a bad person, it's just unfortunate. I don't think it's Azula's perceived neglect that caused her to be evil, but rather Ursa's banishment that drove her to darkness. It's possible that she loved Ursa, but when Ozai banished her, she was confused at who to blame. She couldn't blame Ozai, she "loves" Ozai too much, maybe even fears him. Perhaps she bottled up that hate, and directed it more towards Zuko. 

The feelings of neglect possibly came later, as at the time when Ursa was around, she probably didn't think much of it; thinking that it may have been laughable that Ursa was doting on Zuko because he was "weak" and needed her as a crutch. It probably wasn't as severe as she made it out to be, as the years go by, those negative feelings tend to distort and amplify old memories. Human memory isn't exactly reliable. 

I think it was entirely Ozai's fault, he was the one who banished her, and was an enabler for Azula's less than noble notions.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 3, 2011)

Gansu said:


> Ursa wasn't a perfect mother. She did love Azula but she didn't think straight. Her biggest mistake was the inability to stop Ozai from abusing their children because she didn't know he was abusive. Good intentions but bad actions.



Hogwash. Ursa is not to blame for Azula's fabricated insecurities, or Ozai's repulsive parenting. They lived in a goddamn patriarchal Absolute Monarchy; what was she going to do?


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## Piekage (Jan 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Gosh, Azula had it 100x worse than Zuko yet that boy cried about it all the time >.<


The only affection Zuko got was from his mother, and that was taken from him when Ursa left. Zuko had to live in an enviroment that favored strong and skilled benders, which he was not at the time, with no emotional support whatsoever, which was made worse by the fact that he was the first born. His own father would have killed him without hesitation, so I really wouldn't say he had it better.

Actually, you're right, but not for the reasons you think. Because Zuko was the unfavorite Ozai refused to get his claws in him like he did to Azula, which saved him from the emotional trauma Azula suffered.


Terra Branford said:


> Ursa was a horrible mother. I can't believe a mother would do that, fiction or not. That is just messed up. No wonder Zuko had it better until his father banished him. I'd rather have a scar on my face and be banished with one parent's love then to continue to strive for one parent's love because the other just didn't love me or show the love.


That's an unfair assumption. We got all of one, maybe two flashbacks with Ursa, both from Zuko's point of view, so how are we to know Ursa and Azula's level of interaction? All we have is Azula's opinion of what her mother thought of her, and Azula wasn't exactly a nice child based on what little we see in the flashbacks either, so Ursa had good reason to scold or question her.

What's more likely? Ozai was actively damaging Azula and Ursa's relationship by keeping the two away from each other as much as possible, and lying to the child to further twist her to his liking. Would it surprise anyone if we got a flashback with something like this?

Ozai: You must be wary of your mother, Azula. You see how she coddles your brother? It's because she's afraid of you; of what you can do and of who you are.

I imagine Ozai fed her a bunch of lies about how she couldn't trust her mother too.



Terra Branford said:


> Azula must have been really desperate for a parent's love to follow and listen to her crazy father...
> Ozai didn't love Azula, he used her talent for Firebending/Lightingbending and made her into his slave-thing to hunt and find people to hurt them. Ozai doesn't love anyone but himself and power. Or that's how it comes off....


How is Azula to know what Ozai thinks or feels? It's obvious to us what Ozai thinks of his children, but Azula grew up her entire life thinking her father cared about her. All that grooming could easily be mistaken for love; especially from a parent.

And consider how good Azula is at whatever she does. One of the best Firebenders in the series; conquered Ba Sing Se when everyone(including Iroh) before her failed; capable of matching an Avatar with three elements under his belt. You really think Ozai's not going to try and keep her under his grasp by any means possible?


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2011)

Saw that edit Jove, oddest one yet


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## Terra Branford (Jan 3, 2011)

Sorry for the late replies! I've been trying to learn one of my native tongues -- Russian -- and now its really, really late xD

@Reikai:
Ah okay. I wasn't sure why you kept deleting your posts. I had you quoted one moment and then when I previewed, it was all gone xD

I'm sorry, but if a parent does that to a child, you are a horrible person. 



> Hogwash. Ursa is not to blame for Azula's fabricated insecurities, or Ozai's repulsive parenting. They lived in a goddamn patriarchal Absolute Monarchy; what was she going to do?


Its not very fabricated when the creators said it...is it? 


@Piekage:
Zuko still had the affection. Yes, he lost his mother and the affection he received from her. Now think about Azula and how her older brother was treated better than her, loved better and given more attention and then remove the mother figure out of the light.

Its not hard to think about why Azula is the way she is....



> How is Azula to know what Ozai thinks or feels? It's obvious to us what Ozai thinks of his children, but Azula grew up her entire life thinking her father cared about her. All that grooming could easily be mistaken for love; especially from a parent.


The episode where he left her behind said it all. He was just using her to gain power for himself....



> What's more likely? Ozai was actively damaging Azula and Ursa's relationship by keeping the two away from each other as much as possible, and lying to the child to further twist her to his liking. Would it surprise anyone if we got a flashback with something like this?
> 
> Ozai: You must be wary of your mother, Azula. You see how she coddles your brother? It's because she's afraid of you; of what you can do and of who you are.


Oh my gosh! That's sad 

Still, that is what I mean. She's not evil, she was twisted, manipulated and felt as if she wasn't loved. And with what Ursa did, it definitively didn't say "Azula, I love you my baby girl." It came off the complete opposite...



> And consider how good Azula is at whatever she does. One of the best Firebenders in the series; conquered Ba Sing Se when everyone(including Iroh) before her failed; capable of matching an Avatar with three elements under his belt. You really think Ozai's not going to try and keep her under his grasp by any means possible?


That's what I've been saying.

Manipulation, using her and hurting her relationships. If a child feels that way, they are going to have some kind of problem.... It doesn't make her "truly evil" just misguided and hurt.

Goodnight everyone and sorry for the late and stale replay >.<


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm sensing a 10 on my Draco in Leather Pants meter.

Draco in Leather Pants, meet Azula in Latex Catsuit.


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## Piekage (Jan 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @Piekage:
> Zuko still had the affection. Yes, he lost his mother and the affection he received from her. Now think about Azula and how her older brother was treated better than her, loved better and given more attention and then remove the mother figure out of the light.


From who? After his mother left who supported him? Not at all supporting/justifying what Ozai did to Azula, but she had someone to attach herself to, someone to support her firebending and stuff. Zuko couldn't do anything right, his mother was gone, his father thought he was a failure.


Terra Branford said:


> The episode where he left her behind said it all. He was just using her to gain power for himself....


Before that, when she was growing up. Azula did see what Ozai thought of her eventually, but how could she growing up?


Terra Branford said:


> Oh my gosh! That's sad
> 
> Still, that is what I mean. She's not evil, she was twisted, manipulated and felt as if she wasn't loved. And with what Ursa did, it definitively didn't say "Azula, I love you my baby girl." It came off the complete opposite...


When? When she said "What is wrong with that girl?"? Cause that's a legitimate question. Azula's behavior as a child wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. She burned Iroh's gift with the glee of a kid buring ants on the sidewalk. She set Mai's hair on fire and could have injured her severely, without a shred of remorse after the fact. Kids her age at the time typically see that something is wrong with their actions by the way people act and look appropriately remorseful. IIRC Azula looked insulted that someone could consider her actions reproachable. Azula needed a lot of things as a child. Loving parents is one, some discipline to kick her off that high horse is another.


Terra Branford said:


> That's what I've been saying.
> 
> Manipulation, using her and hurting her relationships. If a child feels that way, they are going to have some kind of problem.... It doesn't make her "truly evil" just misguided and hurt.


While I agree to a point, we can't call Freudian Excuse on every bad thing Azula does throughout the series. She has to be held accountable for her own actions for some of the things she did. Ozai didn't order her to capture or kill Aang, or abandon Mai's brother, or attack Iroh, or use the drill, or conquer Ba Sing Se. Azula's young so a good deal of what she does can be attributed to her father to some degree, but Azula knows right from wrong; by her own words she thinks she's a monster. And had the Gaang failed to stop the Fire Nation, Azula would have continued her path and become evil in her own right, and not just by association.

That'd be like blaming Fire Nation society, or Azulon, or Sozin for shaping Ozai to be the man he is. Those elements helped raise him, but the decision to burn his son's face and scorch the earth are his alone.

Night.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 3, 2011)

Mider T said:


> Saw that edit Jove, oddest one yet



Say what? What did I edit?



Terra Branford said:


> Its not very fabricated when the creators said it...is it?



They only mentioned an "unhealthy environment;" I doubt Ursa had anything to do with that. Azula misinterpreted Ursa's scolding of her, which was in no way irrational from what we saw, as hatred, because it violated the system they lived under.


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2011)

Balderdash into Hogwash


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 3, 2011)

Looking through Avatar, there are still little details that surprise me.

Like for example, the language

I expected the Fire Nation's name to be written as 火國 Huo Guo, literally Fire Country.

But look at the seal for the Fire Lord (the red stamp thing)


It says 列 (lie) with  火 (huo) underneath it and then 火國 (huo guo) when it mentions the Fire Nation. Now, writing 列 (lie) with  火 (lie) is an old way of writing 烈 (lie, but with an entirely different meaning). Lie without huo is nothing threatening or special, but when written the other way, combined with huo, or four strokes under it, it mean VIOLENT! and FIREY! or BLAZING! It becomes an intense word, an ANGRY word. But it can also denote a passionate enthusiasm. Considering the nature of the Fire Nation over a century, I think people are inclined to take the ANGRY VIOLENT RELENTLESS FIRE NATION over the passionate Fire Nation. 

Do you think perhaps Zuko may drop that word from the name of the Fire Nation? Sounds possible it was an addition to the name after they started the war or something. Although, Fire Benders and firenation citizens are passionate and enthusiastic, so it's also likely that it was a part of the Fire Nation's name already and it's coincidental that they can pervert it to its more negative connotation. 

Also, it's ironic that the slanderous way of writing Zuko's name yields a pronunciation exactly as we normally hear the characters say it. When Iroh and Zuko desert, on their wanted poster, Zuko is written with the character 祖 Zu for ancestor, grandfather, forefather, etc. and 寇 Kou for enemy or bandit, or thief. Basically, it's either calling him a traitor to the family line, or a thief of their lineage's name. It's a far cry from how it seems to be written for real in the tales of Ba Sing Se, which sounds like Su Ke. I actually think there's large levels of cleverness in this; I wouldn't put it past Ozai to name Zuko that way when he was born. After all, Ozai was the second born child, which Azulon neglected. It wouldn't sound too far for him to consider that Iroh was robbing him, Ozai, of the right to be Firelord. Ozai believed that he was far more capable of being Fire Lord than Iroh. Since Zuko was first born, like Iroh, in a sweet, yet twisted way, this technically makes Ozai name Zuko in "honor" of Iroh. It sounds even more awesome to think that Zuko changed the way to write his name to shake off the terrible meaning of the name Ozai given him. It could also be sweet that Ursa showed Zuko a kinder way to write his name. Su Ke could be the name Ursa gave him, and Zu Kou is the name Ozai gave.

Holy shit, the language in Avatar tells its own story!


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## Buskuv (Jan 3, 2011)

Mider T said:


> Balderdash into Hogwash



Balderwash!


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## Wan (Jan 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Looking through Avatar, there are still little details that surprise me.
> 
> Like for example, the language
> 
> ...



The attention to little details is great.  The art book explains that the show hired Chinese calligraphy expert Dr. Siu-Leung Lee to translate everything for the show.  S.L. Lee typically used classical Chinese, but he also used archaic Chinese for for old texts on the spirits and elements.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 3, 2011)

@Piekage:
Yes, I'm not denying she hasn't done anything evil. I know she has.

But there is a reason for the way she grew up. She was treated horrible, her mother showered more attention on her older brother, her father is a crazy person who was the only person left she could fight to get parental love for.

Children who grow in situations like that will come out far different than those who grew up with at least one legit parent who loved them, especially openly....

Ursa might have loved Azula, but because she didn't openly express it or do as she did with Zuko, Azula took it wrong and became damaged. 

@ReikaiDemon:
Dang, that is a lot of detail behind it. Either that, or it was crazy coincidence xD

@Two Turtle Joves:
Well to a child -- especially a younger one -- giving love to a older sibling more, especially openly, is a sign of having more love for him/her or a special child/favorite in the family. It can hurt and mess with the mind of anyone.


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## Piekage (Jan 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @Piekage:
> Yes, I'm not denying she hasn't done anything evil. I know she has.
> 
> But there is a reason for the way she grew up. She was treated horrible, her mother showered more attention on her older brother, her father is a crazy person who was the only person left she could fight to get parental love for.
> ...



What proof do you have of any of this? What makes you think Azula was treated horribly based on what we see in flashbacks? What proof do you have that Ursa didn't try and express her love for Azula like she did with Zuko? What makes you think Ursa had the opportunity to express any love to Azula?

Nothing wrong with conjecture, but we don't see nearly enough of Azula's home life to determine the things your suggesting. We only get a couple of flashbacks that focus on Zuko. Unless Brian or Mike said something about it, I don't see where your getting your statements from. Sure, Azula was a pretty twisted individual during the series, but there are a number of factors that can be attributed to this, including her trust and abandonment issues, which were both directly addressed in the series, but 'people treating her horribly'? Who treated her wrongly? Why would they do this when she's a prodigy and the Fire Lord's daughter? What proof do you have?


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## Terra Branford (Jan 3, 2011)

Well, by horribly, I mean Ursa not expressing her love as she did for Zuko. My proof? Azula's my proof, especially in the last episodes. Her breakdown of seeing her mother who said "I always loved you Azula (might not be the exact words xD)" and Azula's reply is my proof.

Ursa must have treated Zuko a lot better or differently, than she did for Azula.

Mike and Bryan did say she grew up in a bad environment. 



> There are obviously some truly evil people in the world, but in the case of Azula, her repressed emotions and jealousies corroded her spirit and made her become that way. It is possible that she could turned out better in a *healthier environment*, but growing up in a royal family of a nation seeking world domination proved to exacerbate her problems.



Him saying that if she grew up in a healthier environment sorta invokes the thought that she grew up in a bad/terrible one. Sure Ursa might have loved her, but she didn't express it right and it hurt and damaged Azula.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 3, 2011)

I mean, what was Ursa supposed to do? _Reward_ Azula's sociopathic behavior? She was a real parent and Azula was too self-absorbed to realize that.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 3, 2011)

*saunters into room*

Hi guys! Isn't it a great day for some fanon?! MMM-MMM! I LOVE FANON! 

Although some fanon I like less than others :33

Especially ones tainted by DiLP


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## ElementX (Jan 3, 2011)

I don't think Ursa was a bad mother. She noticed that Zuko was being neglected by his father and so she made sure she could give him all the love she could. I'm sure Ursa loved  Azula as well, but she couldn't ignore what her daughter was becoming. She scolded her daughter to counter Ozai's praise. Besides, even at such a young age Azula was good at hiding her feelings. Azula didn't even seem like she cared the day her mother disappeared.Of course, we know now that probably wasn't the case. Ursa probably wasn't aware Azula felt the way she did.


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## Gunners (Jan 4, 2011)

> Well, by horribly, I mean Ursa not expressing her love as she did for Zuko. My proof? Azula's my proof, especially in the last episodes. Her breakdown of seeing her mother who said "I always loved you Azula (might not be the exact words xD)" and Azula's reply is my proof.
> 
> Ursa must have treated Zuko a lot better or differently, than she did for Azula.
> 
> Mike and Bryan did say she grew up in a bad environment.


It's not clear that Ursa must have treated a lot better or differently. You realise that Azula grew up in a setting where she was praised by everyone and Zuko was pretty much seen as the disgrace. Her mother showing equal affection to Zuko would be enough to piss her off when she is arrogant enough to feel her actions grant her right to better treatment. 

That being said you can't expect Ursa to treat Azula the same because Azula doesn't listen.


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## Gansu (Jan 4, 2011)

Apparently, Ursa didn't know Ozai corrupted Azula. If she knew, she would stop him. She didn't show Azula her love very well. Also, she was well aware that Ozai neglected Zuko but didn't do anything to stop him. After her banishment, she was unable to protect Zuko and the scar on his face was the proof. Any parenting expert would say the treatment of the kids might not be the same but in the same time parents have to make sure that their children know they are loved. Ursa made a mistake by not changing the environment.

Azula ( over-indulgence,corruption, terrorizing, exploitation, having high expectation , and abandonment )and Zuko ( neglect, abandonment,rejection and physical abuse) were victim of child abuse.
The abuse in the case of Azula was sneaky and in the case of Zuko it was apparent.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 4, 2011)

I am not going to become involved in the discussion of Azula's morality, or lack thereof; there is ample evidence to support both the argument that she is completely evil and the argument that she is merely a victim of her circumstances, so I believe that both arguments are equally valid. I wish to instead discuss another topic.

Did anyone find it to be unfortunate that Longshot and Smellerbee never appeared again after Jet died? I was hoping that they would return for the final battle, but they did not. Perhaps they decided to retire from fighting and live a peaceful life? What does everyone else believe?


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 4, 2011)

My guess would be ritual suicide


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 4, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> My guess would be ritual suicide



That is a very pessimistic and negative viewpoint to have, RekaiDemon, especially when Longshot and Smellerbee decided to be positive and optimistic and not allow Jet's death to torment them; are you being sarcastic or humorous, I hope?


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 4, 2011)

Do you not see Kruemel?


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## tsunadefan (Jan 4, 2011)

sorry to cut in on your ursa talk, but i have found the personality from each element!! imma give ya'll the definition of earth people.

Taurus, Virgo, and Capricorn—earth elements: The Earth signs show propriety. They are conventional, proper and fitting. They follow what is socially acceptable in conduct, behavior and speech. They have excellent manners and are very polite. They are prudent and have a deep regard for conventional rules of behavior. The Earth signs by nature are merchants. They are the storekeepers, barterers and traders. They are at their best when buying or selling material or tangible commodities. Most are very business oriented. The Earth signs have a physical nature. They have a characteristic love for the material, tangible things. They derive pleasure from sensory stimulation such as taste, smell and feel. They surround themselves with tangible and material items such as fine furniture, art and jewelry; most have a nice home that is meticulous and expertly decorated. They have good taste in clothing and most are connoisseurs of food and drink. The Earth signs' emotions are aroused by sensory stimulation. Each of the five senses can produce an emotional response. Sight, sound, touch, smell and taste brings both joy or depression. Nice peaceful surroundings, lively music, quality crafted materials, pleasant smelling tasty foods as well as financial security are all conditions required for an emotionally happy stable Earth sign. Earth signs are normally not prone to physical violence, however, as in any situation.

hope i am allowed to do this!


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## Burke (Jan 4, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *saunters into room*
> 
> Hi guys! Isn't it a great day for some fanon?! MMM-MMM! I LOVE FANON!
> 
> ...



*I isToo lazy to look back through pages...*
Whats wrong?


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## Terra Branford (Jan 4, 2011)

> That being said you can't expect Ursa to treat Azula the same because Azula doesn't listen.


So Ursa was punishing her?

I don't care if Ursa thought she had a reason not to treat Azula the same, its still wrong of a parent...

But right, let's drop it and move onto a new subject xD


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## Piekage (Jan 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> So Ursa was punishing her?
> 
> I don't care if Ursa thought she had a reason not to treat Azula the same, its still wrong of a parent...



I'm sure he meant by listen, that Azula didn't want to hear about that love crap, in which case it's her own fault.

It makes more sense to me that Ozai was sabotaging Azula's and Ursa's relationship. We don't see near enough to suggest that she would ignore Azula's emotions, purposefully or otherwise, so why would she, unless Ozai had keep them apart often or lied to Azula to further corrupt her, and simply didn't give her a chance to allow Ursa to influence Azula in any meaningful way. And consider that this is Ozai raising her, who favors fear and dominion over love and loyalty. With a person like that teaching and influencing her, is it any surprise Azula turned out living by those principals?

And if we take Azula's illusion during Sozin's Comet as such; a delusion from her mind or something, then it would appear that she did know her mother cared about her on some level and was denying it to justify her attitude and actions towards others(that people couldn't be trusted and only betray you, and that fear is the only way to get what you want).


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## Gunners (Jan 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> So Ursa was punishing her?
> 
> I don't care if Ursa thought she had a reason not to treat Azula the same, its still wrong of a parent...
> 
> But right, let's drop it and move onto a new subject xD



No let's not move on to a new topic. 

Ursa wasn't punishing Azula just look at things this way. If your child fucks up then shows remorse for their actions you are going to comfort them afterwards as essentially it reinforces the positive behaviour they displayed. 

If your child fucks up, you tell them off about it and they don't give a shit about your words or your actions, why are you going to hug them? You would essentially be saying ''It's okay to be a bitch and not care''. 

It isn't wrong as a parent as you don't reward cruel behaviour.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 4, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Ursa wasn't punishing Azula just look at things this way. If your child fucks up then shows remorse for their actions you are going to comfort them afterwards as essentially it reinforces the positive behaviour they displayed.
> 
> If your child fucks up, you tell them off about it and they don't give a shit about your words or your actions, why are you going to hug them? You would essentially be saying ''It's okay to be a bitch and not care''.
> 
> It isn't wrong as a parent as you don't reward cruel behaviour.


Sure as hell sounds like a punishment. Child acts up, so naturally, you punish them by not showing your supposed "love".

You don't not love your child because they are having problems or if they are _ACTING_ up when they feel the way they do. When you see a child acting that way, you're supposed to care and nurture them, not give up on showing your love or expressing it to them, because _CLEARLY_ she needed/s help.

A real parent would have known this. Ursa had a favorite and it was Zuko, it is obvious. Sure she loved Azula, but she helped push Azula to where she is now by not showing her the same love, no matter _HOW_ Azula reacted to her mother's scolding or whatever her mother did, you don't treat your kids that way.

And if you'd treat your kid that way, then I'm sorry, something is wrong here. :/


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 4, 2011)

Punishment IS an act of love 

To not do anything about it, or encouraging bad behavior is not love.

I shudder to think of the day you become a parent.

Do you think Ursa was berating Azula for shits and giggles? Or to be a bitch? No, she was trying to fix what Ozai has been feeding her.

Therefore, I stand by my claim that Ozai is the most to blame, as well as Azula herself.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 5, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *Punishment IS an act of love
> To not do anything about it, or encouraging bad behavior is not love.
> 
> I shudder to think of the day you become a parent.*
> ...



Wow...I'm actually not surprised to see your post so filled with obvious negative energy toward me, Reikai (which seems to never really go away xD). 

I think you're confused here, Reikai. I'm not saying she shouldn't have punished Azula (you'll fail to grasp this though), I'm saying her WAY of punishing Azula is fecked up.

As punishment, you don't stop showing your love to a child. You have some serious problems if you think that way. 



ReikaiDemon said:


> I shudder to think of the day you become a parent.



Oh wait....was that the part where I was supposed to care what you think? 

P.S
I also think you need to take time to actually read posts before you go off. I never ONCE said Ursa _shouldn't _have punished Azula. I said, in short: "When your child acts up (in whatever way, you pick) that is never a reason to punish them by not expressing your love to them."


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 5, 2011)

What? Has Ursa been hitting her? The only examples of punishment we've seen Ursa giving was a short scolding. She wasn't even YELLING at her.

I don't care that you don't care what I think, I'm just fearing the mental safety of any children you may or about to have.

There's an obvious bias going on here, if it were any other character that you didn't like, you wouldn't care.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 5, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *What? Has Ursa been hitting her?* The only examples of punishment we've seen Ursa giving was a short scolding. She wasn't even YELLING at her.
> 
> I don't care that you don't care what I think, I'm just fearing the mental safety of any children you may or about to have.



Oh dear god, are you serious? Where the FLIP did I saw Ursa hit her? Where in the world did you get that from? What in the world would make you.... oh just forget it. 

Oh man, you really are seeing things that aren't there 



> I don't care that you don't care what I think, I'm just fearing the mental safety of any children you may or about to have.





Says the one who thinks not expressing love to a child is a "reasonable" punishment xD

Good, we'll run a test. Which child will feel more loved. Yours or mine. I have no doubt in my mind your child will feel hated or not as loved. Can't wait to hear about your own little Zuko situation. :/



> There's an obvious bias going on here, if it were any other character that you didn't like, you wouldn't care.


What are you blabbing on about? Bias because...I think you aren't suppose to punish your child by not expressing love to them?

.....

Did you question your "obvious bias" before you starting posting about things that didn't even exist in my posts?


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Oh dear god, are you serious? Where the FLIP did I saw Ursa hit her? Where in the world did you get that from? What in the world would make you.... oh just forget it.
> 
> Oh man, you really are seeing things that aren't there
> 
> ...


No, that was a rhetorical question, I was not saying that you said that Ursa was hitting Azula.

Ursa wasn't neglecting her, she was trying to reason with her as best she could.

She was showing her enough attention, and we've only seen the parts where Azula was acting up.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 5, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> No, that was a rhetorical question, I was not saying that you said that Ursa was hitting Azula.
> 
> Ursa wasn't neglecting her, she was trying to reason with her as best she could.
> 
> She was showing her enough attention, and we've only seen the parts where Azula was acting up.



Expressing love more for one child when another clearly needs it badly (acts up in the oddest ways) is not "reasoning". 

Its a horrible _punishment_. 

Really? Where do you get this "enough attention" from?  Unless the show I watched was COMPLETELY different than the one you watched (or vice versa) then I don't ever remember seeing an episode where she was giving Azula any kind of attention (yesh yesh, because she was acting up that's why, by "reason", Ursa didn't express love to her ). 

EDIT:
You know what...its not worth it. It won't go anywhere no matter how long I repeat myself. Its late, I'm sick and quiet frankly, very tired of the continuous attitude you throw at me and the long and always expected silence and "take it" attitude I keep putting forth. So!

Good night everyone.


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## VerdantVenus (Jan 5, 2011)

this samurai technique Where in this episode does it show in the least that Ursa was neglecting Azula? She even calls her _darling_ and Azula seems to be on good speaking terms with her.

This is the only episode where we see Azula interacting with Ursa in her youth, we can only make inferences on her relationship from Azula in basically less than five minutes of animation they have given us. Since this is an episode from Zuko's point of view, we only see Zuko spending more time with Ursa just from perspective. This does not mean she spends more time with Zuko over Azula. The fact that she takes an active role in parenting Azula by having a talk with her, and Azula's familiarity with speaking to her does not convey in the least that Ursa has been giving Azula LESS attention than what you have assumed.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 5, 2011)

I don't know how the hell you've derived all this, Terra, but it's totally divorced from the show and the characterizations in the show.

This sounds dangerously close to an attempt to retcon Azula as inherently good, and slandering one of the most valorous characters in the process.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 5, 2011)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> I don't know how the hell you've derived all this, Terra, but it's totally divorced from the show and the characterizations in the show.
> 
> This sounds dangerously close to an attempt to retcon Azula as inherently good, and slandering one of the most valorous characters in the process.


Thank you, someone had to say it.


----------



## Gansu (Jan 5, 2011)

No one in the avatar world was born evil. Watch The Avatar and The Fire Lord and listen to what Aang said," Roku was just as much Fire Nation as Sozin was, right If anything, their story proves anyone's capable of great good and great evil. Everyone, even the Fire Lord
and the Fire Nation have to be treated like they're worth giving a chance. And I also think it was about friendships. "

Bryke said Azula wasn't truly evil, she became evil because of the way she was raised. If you ask any psychiatrist or parenting expert they would say corrupting the child is emotional abuse. 

Ursa loved Azula and disciplined her because she loved. Azula was confused as her hallucination showed. Ursa's mistakes were not eliminating the influence Ozai who instilled the bad behavior in Azula, not spending more time with her as much as Zuko  and together , giving more power to an abusive parent, and ineffectively protecting Zuko from his father.  You can't discipline a child without dealing with the source of the problem which was in Azula's case was Ozai.

Even Zuko said in The Ember Island players that his family was happy in the past. Ozai was a normal person until his desire for power made him a monster and a terrible father as Zuko said in The Phoenix King.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 5, 2011)

I highly doubt Ozai was ever a normal person. As seen in that flashback where he placed his arm around Zuko, he may have tried to be a good father. But, his desire for power and world domination are obviouslly stronger than his feelings for his family.

Hell, when he became the Phoenix King, he just threw away the title of Fire Lord and toosed it to Azula. He even saif it had no meaning to him.


----------



## ElementX (Jan 5, 2011)

I doubt Ozai was born evil. He's an interesting case though. There are hints that there may have been some favoritism going on with Azulon. Seriously, who tells their son to kill their own child has a punishment for insensitivity?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 5, 2011)

ElementX said:


> I doubt Ozai was born evil. He's an interesting case though. There are hints that there may have been some favoritism going on with Azulon. Seriously, who tells their son to kill their own child has a punishment for insensitivity?


Azula always lies


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 5, 2011)

ElementX said:


> I doubt Ozai was born evil. He's an interesting case though. There are hints that there may have been some favoritism going on with Azulon. Seriously, who tells their son to kill their own child has a punishment for insensitivity?



A bit more than hints. Azulon looks at Ozai as if he's just backup for Iroh and doesn't seem at all interested in Azula's advanced Firebending. And he didn't seem to care much when Zuko screwed up either. If he's such a Firebending prodigy himself, he's have no tolerance for failure. Ozai and his family are second worries for Azulon.

Iroh was definitely his favorite by a long shot. He was outraged at the mere suggestion that he take something from Iroh that he deserves by birth. This relationship with his father is very likely why Ozai acts the way he does with his own.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 5, 2011)

I said that I would not become involved in this discussion, but I must now rescind my earlier words, for I do not wish to leave this subject without my own input.



Level7N00b said:


> A bit more than hints. Azulon looks at Ozai as if he's just backup for Iroh and doesn't seem at all interested in Azula's advanced Firebending. And he didn't seem to care much when Zuko screwed up either. If he's such a Firebending prodigy himself, he's have no tolerance for failure. Ozai and his family are second worries for Azulon.
> 
> Iroh was definitely his favorite by a long shot. He was outraged at the mere suggestion that he take something from Iroh that he deserves by birth. This relationship with his father is very likely why Ozai acts the way he does with his own.



I shall agree with this statement, but I do not believe that Ozai having a stern and uncaring father at all justifies him treating his own children in such a manner. He had the option to not repeat his own father's actions, but did not do so, so he is still guilty, in my mind.


----------



## Burke (Jan 5, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I said that I would not become involved in this discussion, but I must now rescind my earlier words, for I do not wish to leave this subject without my own input.



This is why we need


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jan 5, 2011)

I actually have a good deal to add to this subject (as you know I would) but, I'm at work so I won't be able to do so until tonight.

So in other words, No one is allowed to change the subject until then.

P.S. @DDJ; trying to understanding Ozai's motivation doesn't mean we're defending or excusing his actions.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 5, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> P.S. @DDJ; trying to understanding Ozai's motivation doesn't mean we're defending or excusing his actions.



I agree with that idea, as I never said that you were defending his actions, and the same idea applies to Azula; I agree that her treatment by her parents did affect her development, but it in no way excuses her actions, as she has committed more than her share of evil deeds.

I have said this before, and I will not be bothered if anyone disagrees with me, but I definitely perceived Freudian themes to the tension in the Fire Nation royal family, especially with the sons and fathers. I actually think that I could make a music video from the scenes were tension between Zuko and Ozai is displayed using the songs _Dyers Eve_ by Metallica or _My Father_ by Chastisement; the lyrics of both of those songs match very well with the tone of the tension between father and son (although even better examples would be Lelouch and Charles from _Code Geass_ or, the greatest example of all, Shini and Gendo in _Evangelion)._

To change topic again, did Longshot and Smellerbee seem to be a romantic couple to anyone here, or were they just good friends? I certainly believe that they may have been a romantic couple.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 5, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> To change topic again, did Longshot and Smellerbee seem to be a romantic couple to anyone here, or were they just good friends? I certainly believe that they may have been a romantic couple.



You actually might be on to something with this one. It's been suggested somewhere, semi-officially, I believe.


----------



## Piekage (Jan 5, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> To change topic again, did Longshot and Smellerbee seem to be a romantic couple to anyone here, or were they just good friends? I certainly believe that they may have been a romantic couple.



That alwys seemed the case to me, after Longshot comforting Smellerbee about her looks. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they were a couple, though friendship isn'nt far fetched.


----------



## Burke (Jan 5, 2011)

Something that i just remembered as being confusing to me is why Smellerbee and longshot died with Jet?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jan 5, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Something that i just remembered as being confusing to me is why Smellerbee and longshot died with Jet?



Because they were poor and had to share the same heart.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 5, 2011)

I noticed that many of the main characters in this series had one-shot romances with secondary or minor characters: Aang with Meng and On-Ji; Katara (despite her denial) with Haru, Jet, and possibly Zuko; Sokka with Yue, and, to a lesser extent, Toph and possibly Ty Lee; Zuko with Song and Jin; and Azula with Chan. I believe that this helped to give greater depth and realism to the characters, allowing the audience to feel as if they were actual people. What does everyone else have to say about that?


----------



## The Potential (Jan 5, 2011)

Ty Lee & Toph both had the hots for Sokka. Sokka's the man.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 5, 2011)

TophxSuki for the ween


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 5, 2011)

TophXIroh FTMLW!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 6, 2011)

Um...Okay...


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

Huge fan of the series, especially Azula. :33


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 6, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Huge fan of the series, especially Azula. :33



I am glad to hear that, as Azula was one of my favorite characters, as well , although Zuko is still my most favorite character.

On that subject, I find it to be a departure from my usual preferences for Zuko to be my favorite character in this series. For example, Byakuya Kuchiki, Itachi Uchiha, Sesshomaru, and Portgas D. Ace are among my favorite characters in _Bleach, Naruto, Inuyasha,_ and _One Piece,_ as they are all "stern older brothers," although Ace is much less than the other three. Zuko is the older sibling in his family, but Azula is actually a much better example of the archetype than he is, as she is initially more talented, more in control of her emotions, and in a more respected position in her society, which all four of the characters I mentioned above are in comparison to the heroes of their series (Ichigo Kurosaki, Naurto Uzumaki, Inuyasha, and Monkey D. Luffy). Does anyone here think that this departure in my preferences has any meaning, or is it simply a difference in preference?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 6, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Huge fan of the series, especially Azula. :33




Then you came at just the right time. We just recently discovered that Azula is the only infallible character in the series.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am glad to hear that, as Azula was one of my favorite characters, as well.



Her cunning/deception is what makes me so fond of her. Not to mention her battle prowess. The fact that she's pretty only makes her even better. 



Two Turtle Joves said:


> Then you came at just the right time. We just recently discovered that Azula is the only infallible character in the series.



Really now?  Wonderful. What source?

I heard that there's going to be a 12-episode sequel, "Avatar: Legend of Korra." Sounds kind of interesting, though no more Azula.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 6, 2011)

Source: The last ten pages or so.

We also found out that she inherently benevolent.


----------



## Burke (Jan 6, 2011)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Then you came at just the right time. We just recently discovered that Azula is the only infallible character in the series.



Such sprinkles of sarcasm.
yum yum


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 6, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Her cunning/deception is what makes me so fond of her. Not to mention her battle prowess. The fact that she's pretty only makes her even better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, it answers to...


And apparently, thinks Ursa is a monster that eats Airbender babies.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

I see. This is good to read.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 6, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Um...Okay...



What does that mean? What is wrong with me stating my opinion and expressing my dislike for Sokka's personality?

Also, on the subject of Azula, I read on the _Wiki_ website for this series that the storywriters had originally planned for Azula to have an arranged marriage in the third season, but the idea was later abandoned. What does everyone else have to say about that? Do you believe that that would have been an interesting idea, or is it better to have been abandoned?


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

Well, at least she'd have conquered the love aspect she'd never done before.

"We will be the strongest couple! We will dominate the Earth!"

 Gotta love a power-hungry psycho bitch. One of my favourite quotes of her was:

Azula (staring into the bonfire): My own mother thought I was a monster...(lighthearted) she was right of course, but it still hurt."



Azula was also supposed to be a boy, along with Toph. Really glad she ended up a chick.


----------



## CrazyAries (Jan 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What does that mean? What is wrong with me stating my opinion and expressing my dislike for Sokka's personality?
> 
> Also, on the subject of Azula, I read on the _Wiki_ website for this series that the storywriters had originally planned for Azula to have an arranged marriage in the third season, but the idea was later abandoned. What does everyone else have to say about that? Do you believe that that would have been an interesting idea, or is it better to have been abandoned?



I do not think any guy would have been ready for Azula. 




LegendaryBeauty said:


> Well, at least she'd have conquered the love aspect she'd never done before.
> 
> "We will be the strongest couple! We will dominate the Earth!"
> 
> ...



I am glad that Toph and Azula turned out to be girls, as well.  Azula put a new spin on sibling rivalry.  We usually see brothers in such a situation.  It was a breath of fresh air to have the younger *sister* be the more talented sibling.  I am not an Azula fan, but I appreciate what she and her friends brought to the series.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

CrazyAries said:


> I am glad that Toph and Azula turned out to be girls, as well.  Azula put a new spin on sibling rivalry.  We usually see brothers in such a situation.  It was a breath of fresh air to have the younger *sister* be the more talented sibling.  I am not an Azula fan, but I appreciate what she and her friends brought to the series.



Not an Azula fan?!

I've never seen such blatant blasphemy.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 6, 2011)

Oh, I forgot to mention that several dozen pages ago we talked everything through, and determined that even with their head-to-head battles, Azula > Katara because Katara once referred to Azula's blue fire as "scary."


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

I'd buy it. 

Lightning > Water, after all. But Hama was just badass, with her blood-bending. That woman was an ingenious villain.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 6, 2011)

Iroh


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

Second favourite character.  Old men who appear weak/calm but can kick ass and dispense advice are badass.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 6, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Second favourite character.  Old men who appear weak/calm but can kick ass and dispense advice are badass.



I can respect that.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

Azula vs Iroh, go go go.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 6, 2011)

Iroh

Bends her over his knee and firespanks, while making her repeat all the teas in the world in order of Iroh's preference, quantity and price..


----------



## The Potential (Jan 6, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Iroh
> 
> Bends her over his knee and firespanks, while making her repeat all the teas in the world in order of Iroh's preference, quantity and price..



 That would be priceless!!!


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

She got him before.  Though it was off-guard.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 6, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> She got him before.  Though it was off-guard.



Sneaky little bitch..


----------



## ElementX (Jan 6, 2011)

Yeah, Iroh would put the smackdown on her.

Azula vs. Toph would be interesting though, the only time they faced each other was when Azula had her firebending disabled.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

Sneaky little bitch is her middle name. 

Azula's got agility/reflexes on him, though.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 6, 2011)

Come to think about it. Based on Toph's ablities and inabilities, I don't believe she has really whole heartedly faced an opponent that wasn't an Earth Bender.

Could she stand her own against opponents such as Aang, Azula, Zuko or Katara based on her inability to see?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 6, 2011)

Toph fangirls v. Azula fangirls.


That's the real fight.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

Toph has shown she's more than capable of holding her own, so long as it doesn't involve swimming. Or burning her feet, rendering her 'sight' useless, as shown accidentally by Zuko.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 6, 2011)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Toph fangirls v. Azula fangirls.
> 
> 
> That's the real fight.



Wheres Terra when you need her.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

I had the Mai and Ty Lee to my Azula deal with her.


----------



## Gansu (Jan 6, 2011)

Azula lied but not every time. She didn't lie when she said she mother issues and her hallucination backed that up. She is the second most complex character in the show after Zuko.

Iroh doesn't approve of child abuse such as excessive punishment like Ozai did to Zuko.

I think Toph, Azula and katara are equally strong.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 6, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Stark042 said:


> I can respect that.





Dat Iroh. 



LegendaryBeauty said:


> Azula vs Iroh, go go go.



Iroh easily knocks her on her ass.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 6, 2011)

Stark042 said:


> I can respect that.


You know, without seeing the end of that gif, it's really easy to think Iroh flew through the ceiling like Hancock.


----------



## Burke (Jan 6, 2011)

Stark042 said:


> I can respect that.



That bread didnt know what hit it.


----------



## ElementX (Jan 6, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You know, without seeing the end of that gif, it's really easy to think Iroh flew through the ceiling like Hancock.



Iroh doesn't need sozin's comet to fly :ho


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

Aside from when she went insane, did Azula ever breathe fire in a fight?


----------



## Noah (Jan 6, 2011)

Nope, that was reserved for The Dragon of the West only.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 6, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Aside from when she went insane, did Azula ever breathe fire in a fight?



Nah, I don't believe so, but it counts.

Seems thier whole family did at one point in the series, with the exception of Azulon, Sozin, Roku & Ursa.

Hell, even Aang did it!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 6, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Iroh doesn't need sozin's comet to fly :ho


He can fly even in the penumbra of an eclipse


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 6, 2011)

Stark042 said:


> Nah, I don't believe so, but it counts.
> 
> Seems thier whole family did at one point in the series, with the exception of Azulon, Sozin, Roku & Ursa.
> 
> Hell, even Aang did it!



:datAvatar

Well, at least we know she can do it. Now if only she knew lightning redirection


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 6, 2011)

Stark042 said:


> Seems thier whole family did at one point in the series, with the exception of Azulon, Sozin, Roku & Ursa.



Yeah, their whole family, save for this entire half that didn't.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 6, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> :datAvatar
> 
> Well, at least we know she can do it. Now if only she knew lightning redirection



I would have raged if they did they.


----------



## Noah (Jan 6, 2011)

.....when did Zuko spit fire? If you guys mean in the coolers at Boiling Rock, I'm discounting that little girly puff.


----------



## Burke (Jan 6, 2011)

Two Turtle Joves said:


> Yeah, their whole family, save for this entire half that didn't.



Oh Jove


----------



## The Potential (Jan 6, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> :datAvatar
> 
> Well, at least we know she can do it. Now if only she knew lightning redirection



I'd rage!!!

Redirection should only be reserved for the good guys. Speaking of redirectin.....

Dat Zuko





Two Turtle Joves said:


> Yeah, their whole family, save for this entire half that didn't.



Sarcasm, I can take it.



Noah said:


> .....when did Zuko spit fire? If you guys mean in the coolers at Boiling Rock, I'm discounting that little girly puff.



He also did it during Seige of The North, so it counts...


----------



## tsunadefan (Jan 6, 2011)

tsunadefan said:


> sorry to cut in on your ursa talk, but i have found the personality from each element!! imma give ya'll the definition of earth people.
> 
> Taurus, Virgo, and Capricorn?earth elements: The Earth signs show propriety. They are conventional, proper and fitting. They follow what is socially acceptable in conduct, behavior and speech. They have excellent manners and are very polite. They are prudent and have a deep regard for conventional rules of behavior. The Earth signs by nature are merchants. They are the storekeepers, barterers and traders. They are at their best when buying or selling material or tangible commodities. Most are very business oriented. The Earth signs have a physical nature. They have a characteristic love for the material, tangible things. They derive pleasure from sensory stimulation such as taste, smell and feel. They surround themselves with tangible and material items such as fine furniture, art and jewelry; most have a nice home that is meticulous and expertly decorated. They have good taste in clothing and most are connoisseurs of food and drink. The Earth signs' emotions are aroused by sensory stimulation. Each of the five senses can produce an emotional response. Sight, sound, touch, smell and taste brings both joy or depression. Nice peaceful surroundings, lively music, quality crafted materials, pleasant smelling tasty foods as well as financial security are all conditions required for an emotionally happy stable Earth sign. Earth signs are normally not prone to physical violence, however, as in any situation.
> 
> hope i am allowed to do this!



so aum, i guess no one cared about the above paragraph?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Even more interesting, Aang and Katara danced together in front of the students from the school, which was perfectly acceptable to us, the audience, as we knew the truth of their relationship, but the students believed that Katara was Aang?s mother, so would it not seem unusual to the students that Aang (using the name of Kuzon) was dancing in a particularly sensuous manner with his apparent mother?


1. She had a different style of dress and hair when portraying Sapphire Fire.
2. If they did recognize her, they'd be more surprised that she was no longer pregnant.
3. None of the other students may have seen Sokka and Katara at the school.


> why should only the heroes have the ability to redirect lighting? I see no reason that Azula or Ozai (before he was depowered) could learn to redirect lightning.


They would have had to study Waterbending, a lesser style.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 6, 2011)

tsunadefan said:


> so aum, i guess no one cared about the above paragraph?



That certainly is not true, but perhaps it was not quite as interesting as other posts. Please do not be offended, as I believe that is a very fascinating observation, but I was simply busy with my own post, and did not wish for it to be any longer than it was.

What elements might match with the other signs of the western zodiac? My familiarity with them is only minimal, so I cannot offer my own input on that subject.



Snow Miser said:


> 1. She had a different style of dress and hair when portraying Sapphire Fire.
> 2. If they did recognize her, they'd be more surprised that she was no longer pregnant.
> 3. None of the other students may have seen Sokka and Katara at the school.
> They would have had to study Waterbending, a lesser style.



Yes, those do seem to be logical explanations to me, except for one thing: Zuko did not need to study waterbending to learn how to redirect lightning, so surely Ozai or Azula would not need to do so, either? And would having a different hairstyle or set of clothing really affect Katara's appearance that drastically?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 6, 2011)

You're no fun, DDJ 

And stop bringing up Bleach and Naruto already, you're making it look like those are the only things ever in the world remotely similar to Avatar. And it sounds like you have a tiny reference pool 

And why the i*c*st? Does it improve Avatar in some way I'm not aware of? 

We get it, you like incestuous child porn  

And Lightning Redirection is a "good guy" technique, because it's a technique of cross-cultural understanding. I think a bit of racism/belief in racial superiority/nationalism would be present in Avatar due to the century long war. No doubt, the strongest offenders would be Ozai and Azula who man not deign themselves to "sully" their art with others.

And besides that, no one else ever dishes out the lightening out on them regularly, while Zuko and Iroh needs to know it, because they are primary opponents to the other two people that chargin dey lazors.

I think it's actually a technique that utilizes almost all the bending arts. For one, you have to be rooted, and waiting for the right time to act: Earthbending. You must be fluid, pulling the current with grace and care, redirecting the power:Waterbending. Then you have to manipulate it through the sea of chi, the stomach, which Firebending utilizes the most of by breathing through it. Obviously, with Airbending being extinct for a century, it's absent; although, you might say that the turning motion and redirection is from Airbending. 

Anyways, it requires a state of mind that Ozai and Azula may not be able to grasp.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Zuko did not need to study waterbending to learn how to redirect lightning, so surely Ozai or Azula would not need to do so, either?


Their other choice is to listen to Iroh, something both think themselves better than.


> And would having a different hairstyle or set of clothing really affect Katara's appearance that drastically?


For people who would have had only a quick glance, yes.


----------



## tsunadefan (Jan 6, 2011)

tsunadefan said:


> so aum, i guess no one cared about the above paragraph?



guess not......


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




     

I used to think this was just bad schtick, but I'm beginning to wonder.  I was going to comment on the whole i*c*st thingy, but I just don't know where to start.  Perhaps I'll just simply say NOOOOO!  Or, suggest that you should seek professional help.


Ironically, when I read the comments concerning Iroh and Azula, the first thing that came to mind was that Iroh would totally spank Azula  this should not - but invariably will - lend itself to i*c*st in your mind.  

I digress


----------



## Piekage (Jan 7, 2011)

tsunadefan said:


> guess not......



I thought it was interesting, but I have no idea to respond to that. It's a nice tidbit of info though.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

Well then, you are certainly wasting your brain power 

It may work in other series, but it's not what Avatar was written for. It just doesn't fit, and would detract and cheapen the show in a way that it seems to be pandering to mock "intellectuals" like you. Sex between family isn't mature material, it's just taboo. It would alienate a lot of people for the sake of tickling your sick fancy. 

Go ahead, you have every right to fantasize about it at length, but to suggest that it should be explored in depth in the series canon is just an ostentatious flaunt of shamelessness you call enlightenment. 

I've decided. You have no mind comprehending anything "good" or truly intelligent. You stare at the finger, while we marvel at the moon, you fill your mouth with proverbs, while we fill our minds with them. I think all you are just imitating on what people think is thought-provoking, fair, and "realistic". Honestly, it's all just posturing I see. 

Just because they don't explore a taboo, doesn't make it worth doing so, nor makes it at all relevant to the narrative of Avatar.


TL;DR!
You have the balls to say you're disappointed in Avatar because Sokka and Katara don't bump uglies 

DISAPPOINTED 

IN AVATAR

FOR STAYING TRUE TO THEIR THEMES AND FOCUS.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On that subject, the subject of incestuous subtext, I was rather disappointed by the lack of it between Sokka and Katara. While I believe that it is good that their relationship is far closer to what most people would consider to be “normal” in comparison to that of Zuko and Azula, it is rather unfortunate that that relative “normality” *leaves less room for certain thoughts or alternate interpretations by the audience*.



How is this "unfortunate?" And why for _that_, of all reasons? 



Oh, and as for Azula going bonkers as Zuko reaches his potential... yes, it's sad and gives Azula fangirls far too much to build specious arguments with, but he held his own on the gondola in Boiling Rock against her, and that was before the meltdown.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Meh - schtick: you stepped on the gas a little too hard.  And I didn't mention "that topic" - so I can't mention it again.  You went there all by your lonesome; and trust me, I'm not going to chase you down that rabbit hole.


----------



## Noah (Jan 7, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




GREATLY_OFFENDED.EXE 

.......

This whole i*c*st thing is baffling. Where, aside from PervBot's CPU, does this even come from? 

Seriously. These last 10 pages or so are starting to make my head hurt. I think.....I think....I think Avatar may be ruined for me now. I'm gonna go power through the whole series and hope I'm wrong. 

Oh. And work a batch to any Zuko/Azula and Sokka/Katara interaction I see.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 7, 2011)

Noah said:


> GREATLY_OFFENDED.EXE
> 
> .......
> 
> ...



DDJ wants to bone his cousin.
Check the bathhouse.


----------



## Shade (Jan 7, 2011)

DDJ


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

Shade said:


> DDJ


DDJ also argued against the prohibition of possession of child porn in the BH


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

See, this is why I just stay in my little areas and let the other mods tell me when something is worth going to (95% of the time: to mock).

Also, _please_ tell me that "work a batch" does not mean what I think it's meant to mean.


----------



## Koi (Jan 7, 2011)

..'Work a batch'?  That's.. new.


p.s.: Joveku instead of warning people of your modly powers when they're being dicks you should just post this:


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

Thank you, Nodonn. Without you pointing it out, I would have missed this gem:



DemonDragonJ said:


> First, I am not joking, at all. I do find appeal in viewing erotic material that features incestuous relationships, and in all seriousness, I do find my female first cousins to be attractive and very much wish to engage in sexual activity with at least one of them before I die. However, that topic is not one that I shall discuss in this thread, so I shall ask you to not mention it again here.o



It says a bit about me that I was so focused on defending Avatar's sincerity that I completely missed this but... a new landmark in the Avatar thread.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 7, 2011)

I'd ship Azula/Zuko if they weren't siblings. In fact, I may ship it, but in a sibling context, i.e. not incestuous but admiring the dynamic relationship they share.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> I'd ship Azula/Zuko if they weren't siblings. In fact, I may ship it, but in a sibling context, i.e. not incestuous but admiring the dynamic relationship they share.


See, why can't you be as reasonable as LB here? 

Not every tension between two or more characters has to be sexual.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

Oh, wait. I wasn't supposed to mention that totally unsolicited piece of information here again.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm not going to assume that siblings that had tension would display a sexual subtext (herp derp, I contradicted myself via the usage of "display" and "subtext", i.e. something that's not particularly visible upon first glance). Why can't they ust be siblings that are out to outdo/kill each other? What about murderous tension? What about affectionate tension, albeit a sexual kind?

 i*c*st and underage? You're sick, DDJ.

But I still love you.


----------



## Koi (Jan 7, 2011)

I like the Sokka/Katara sibling relationship because they remind me of my bro and myself sometimes.  They love each other dearly but sometimes they both probably just want to punch the other in the throat.  

The multifaceted dynamic between Zuko and Azula was done soooo well.  I think that's what I like best about those two characters.  And it was completely believable, even for a kids' show.  It wasn't over the top, it had the right about of subtlety to it to give their relationship a real depth and multiple tensions that were constantly pulling in one direction or another.

Also, having a bro of my own who I love dearly even when he's being kind o a dick, i*c*st makes me gag.  Unless it's like, step-siblings who met when they were a little older.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 7, 2011)

Noah said:


> GREATLY_OFFENDED.EXE
> 
> .......
> 
> This whole i*c*st thing is baffling. Where, aside from PervBot's CPU, does this even come from?



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-eWsMMJwZ4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 7, 2011)

...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

Koi said:


> Also, having a bro of my own who I love dearly even when he's being kind o a dick, i*c*st makes me gag.  Unless it's like, step-siblings who met when they were a little older.



OMAIGAUD WHY U SO SINGLE0MINDED BITCH /livejournal

Oh _right_, because _obviously_ _*everyone*_ who _loves_ fetish _engages_ in that fetish. /sfdrama


And so on and so on, and yet the proof is in the posting. i*c*st is gross.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 7, 2011)

Yaoi i*c*st is hawt. 

/Hypocrite


----------



## The Potential (Jan 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, I am not joking, at all. I do find appeal in viewing erotic material that features incestuous relationships, and in all seriousness, I do find my female first cousins to be attractive and very much wish to engage in sexual activity with at least one of them before I die. However, that topic is not one that I shall discuss in this thread, so I shall ask you to not mention it again here.
> 
> Second, I am fond of only certain forms of i*c*st, specifically, that between siblings or cousins, so that definitely excludes anything that involves Iroh and Azula together. Even if it was not incestuous, and even if Iroh did get himself into better physical condition later in the series, I do not at all wish to picture him, or any elderly person, engaging in sexual activity; I prefer to see nubile young people making love in fictional media.





Nodonn said:


> DDJ wants to bone his cousin.
> Check the bathhouse.





ReikaiDemon said:


> DDJ also argued against the prohibition of possession of child porn in the BH





Level7N00b said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-eWsMMJwZ4[/YOUTUBE]




.......



Someone message me when were talking about *Avatar The Last Airbender* again please.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 7, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Stark042 said:


> .......
> 
> 
> 
> Someone message me when were talking about *Avatar The Last Airbender* again please.






Hey, I didn't say I like Zucest. 

I only ship one person with Zuko. pek


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

Level7N00b said:


> Hey, I didn't say I like Zucest.
> 
> I only ship one person with Zuko. pek


Yes, ZukoxHonor is my OTP


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 7, 2011)

AzulaxPower is mine.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> AzulaxPower is mine.



Ouch. Bryke teased that even more than Zutara.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

I laugh at those ZukoxAngst shippers, it was obvious that it was never gonna last.

And it's so onesided too.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

I know, right? Zuko's always the bottom.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 7, 2011)

ZukoxHonor.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

I see you lurking, stab. Wherever the thread is right now, you're not off the hook for this:



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I actually have a good deal to add to this subject (as you know I would) but, I'm at work so I won't be able to do so until tonight.
> 
> So in other words, No one is allowed to change the subject until then.


----------



## Gansu (Jan 7, 2011)

Jove said:


> Ouch. Bryke teased that even more than Zutara.



I don't think they did, if I remember correctly. Azula X love, ZukoX honor ,Iroh X good life and Ozai X power were more obvious.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

IrohxTea should be obvious to everyone.


----------



## Noah (Jan 7, 2011)

Jove said:


> See, this is why I just stay in my little areas and let the other mods tell me when something is worth going to (95% of the time: to mock).
> 
> Also, _please_ tell me that "work a batch" does not mean what I think it's meant to mean.







> ..'Work a batch'? That's.. new.



Mid-90's talk, kids! Disappeared with "all that and a bag of chips". 




Level7N00b said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-eWsMMJwZ4[/YOUTUBE]



Well. There it is. How could I even forget that Zuko went to rape, but was instead raped himself. It's like Avatar is just one 61 episode adaptation of Cruel Intentions!


----------



## Piekage (Jan 7, 2011)

This is Avatar related right?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

Zuko, Aquaman?

Surely, there could be a better DC character for Zuko than Aquaman.


----------



## Piekage (Jan 7, 2011)

Two-Face maybe? I think it's too obvious, but here it is.


----------



## Noah (Jan 7, 2011)

Is that Aquaman? He's all I can come up with, but it doesn't look much like him. But he is the king of a kingdom now...

I suppose the obvious choice is Firestorm.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 7, 2011)

Toph/Green Lantern.

Sokka/Batman:

Zuko/??????


----------



## Piekage (Jan 7, 2011)

Noah said:


> Is that Aquaman? He's all I can come up with, but it doesn't look much like him. But he is the king of a kingdom now...
> 
> I suppose the obvious choice is Firestorm.



I'm guessing so. Outfit matches.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 7, 2011)

I am beginning to worry that I am quickly losing any credibility that I may have in the view of the other users of this forum, but I hope that it is not too late for me to reverse the damage that I have done.

Since we are now on the subject of pairings and romantic couples, I noticed that among the three canonical couples (Aang/Katara, Sokka/Suki, and Zuko/Mai), only one of them (Sokka/Suki) was comprised of two people of equal power. They were both ordinary humans, while Zuko was a firebender and Mai was an ordinary human, and while Katara was a bender, Aang was the Avatar, making both him and Zuko far more powerful than their romantic partners. I was rather disappointed by that, but what does everyone else have to say about that? I know that this is likely to be a subject that does not need to be discussed, but I still wish to hear what other users have to say about it.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 7, 2011)

> I am *beginning* to worry that I am quickly *losing* any credibility that I may have in the view of the other users of this forum, but I hope that it is not too late for me to reverse the damage that I have done.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am beginning to worry that I am quickly losing any credibility that I may have in the view of the other users of this forum, but I hope that it is not too late for me to reverse the damage that I have done.
> 
> Since we are now on the subject of pairings and romantic couples, I noticed that among the three canonical couples (Aang/Katara, Sokka/Suki, and Zuko/Mai), only one of them (Sokka/Suki) was comprised of two people of equal power. They were both ordinary humans, while Zuko was a firebender and Mai was an ordinary human, and while Katara was a bender, Aang was the Avatar, making both him and Zuko far more powerful than their romantic partners. I was rather disappointed by that, but what does everyone else have to say about that? I know that this is likely a subject that does not need to be discussed, but I still wish to hear what other users have to say about it.



Personally, I don't see either of them being more powerful than the other in any other way then Bending. Aang nor Katara seem like they would fight over who's more dominant, same goes for Zuko and Mai. However, I get the feeling that Suki may be a bit more dominant than Sokka is.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 7, 2011)

Level7N00b said:


> Personally, I don't see either of them being more powerful than the other in any other way then Bending. Aang nor Katara seem like they would fight over who's more dominant, same goes for Zuko and Mai. However, I get the feeling that Suki may be a bit more dominant than Sokka is.



Yes, I thought that also, but what about in the rare event that an actual fight occurs between them? What may happen, then? I know that an actual fight is not likely to occur, but I was being completely theoretical.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 7, 2011)

right? 

But seriously, given the overtly evident rich fantasies DDJ enjoys, are you really surprised by that statement?


----------



## Gunners (Jan 7, 2011)

Level7N00b said:


> Personally, I don't see either of them being more powerful than the other in any other way then Bending. Aang nor Katara seem like they would fight over who's more dominant, same goes for Zuko and Mai. However, I get the feeling that Suki may be a bit more dominant than Sokka is.



Nah Suki is surprisingly soft around Sokka. Well it isn't surprising as she explained why she liked being around Sokka back in book one but you get my overall point?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jan 7, 2011)

Jove said:


> I see you lurking, stab. Wherever the thread is right now, you're not off the hook for this:



I still plan on making that post, I've just been sick the last few days and all my energy has gone to just getting me through my workday. So when I get home, lying on the couch and doing nothing tends to win any arguments over doing absolutly anything else.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 7, 2011)

Yeah, I've been sick, too. 


As for dominance in couples, Zuko and Aang might have a bending edge, but I don't think there's _any_ imbalance between them and their spouses. In the case of Zuko, I think Mai's exceptional agility, accuracy with stilettos, and innate ability to fight against benders, as evidenced numerous times in the series, balances things. 

In the case of Aang, I think Katara's forceful, overbearing personality in comparison with his passive one completely balances them. I'd be more scared to fight Katara than Aang.


----------



## Noah (Jan 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am beginning to worry that I am quickly losing any credibility that I may have in the view of the other users of this forum, but I hope that it is not too late for me to reverse the damage that I have done.







> Since we are now on the subject of pairings and romantic couples, I noticed that among the three canonical couples (Aang/Katara, Sokka/Suki, and Zuko/Mai), only one of them (Sokka/Suki) was comprised of two people of equal power. They were both ordinary humans, while Zuko was a firebender and Mai was an ordinary human, and while Katara was a bender, Aang was the Avatar, making both him and Zuko far more powerful than their romantic partners. I was rather disappointed by that, but what does everyone else have to say about that? I know that this is likely to be a subject that does not need to be discussed, but I still wish to hear what other users have to say about it.



Clearly, it's because men are better than women. In the case of Sokka, he's too boss to care. He knows that, after all the kung fu and smart alack remarks, he's gonna go back to his igloo to find a nice meal, his slippers, and a ninja wearing only her apron.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

I wasn't aware DDJ had any credibility to begin with


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jan 7, 2011)

Jove said:


> Yeah, I've been sick, too.



I don't know if it's because of the cold itself or the cold medicine I took for it, but I currently feel like the physical embodiment of a Keannu Reeve's "Woah!"


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 7, 2011)

Jove said:


> As for dominance in couples, Zuko and Aang might have a bending edge, but I don't think there's _any_ imbalance between them and their spouses. In the case of Zuko, I think Mai's exceptional agility, accuracy with stilettos, and innate ability to fight against benders, as evidenced numerous times in the series, balances things.
> 
> In the case of Aang, I think Katara's forceful, overbearing personality in comparison with his passive one completely balances them. I'd be more scared to fight Katara than Aang.



Yes, I suppose that that is indeed a logical explanation.

Now, to change to subject, the world and people of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ are inspired by ancient Asian cultures, especially Chinese and Japanese, so why are the Water Tribes inspired by Inuit people? That seems to be a rather random addition to me, but was it to add greater diversity to the world of this series? If that was the case, it certainly succeeded at that goal, in my mind.

Also on that subject, how well did names, titles, jokes, and cultural references translate in foreign dubs of this series? And how did people in Japan and China react to it? Some Japanese animated series either do not translate well into foreign languages or are set in the United States, so this is a reversal of that scenario. it would be interesting to see how other cultures reacted to this series, if any content needed to be altered in other languages, and if any people preferred to watch it in its native English language with subtitles of their language, just as many people in this country (myself included) prefer to watch foreign media in their native languages with English subtitles.



Soul Assassin said:


> But seriously, given the overtly evident rich fantasy life DDJ enjoys, are you really surprised by that statement?



I do not have a "fantasy life," I simply give an effort to be positive and optimistic in everything that I do, and I always attempt to see the "bright side of life," to use a well-known phrase.



ReikaiDemon said:


> I wasn't aware DDJ had any credibility to begin with



I have tolerated your incessant insults for some time, Reikai Demon, but that is simply too much; I shall give you -rep for it, and I also shall speak to Jove about your behavior. If I were a moderator, would you speak to me in such a manner? Because I certainly would not tolerate such behavior of yours, if I were.

And as for my credibility, surely, you did not think of me as you do now when I first joined this forum? I must have had _some_ credibility when I was a new member. And if I did, then it is logical that I can regain it; something that is possessed can be lost, but, conversely, something that is lost can be regained.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 7, 2011)

Credibility, like respect, is earned 

As much as disrespect can be earned, naturally inverse to respect 

Thus is the nature of the Taijitu 

And boo-hoo, how can I ever recover from this crushing shame of neg rep? 

Time for seppuku


----------



## Koi (Jan 7, 2011)

ngl the constant DDJ-bashing makes me kinda uncomfortable.

Anyway, the real OTP here is ZhaoCake _anyway._


----------



## Piekage (Jan 7, 2011)

Koi said:


> ngl the constant DDJ-bashing makes me kinda uncomfortable.
> 
> Anyway, the real OTP here is ZhaoCake _anyway._



_Anyone_Cake is a OTP. Dat Cake is a real bicycle.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 7, 2011)

Koi said:


> ngl the constant DDJ-bashing makes me kinda uncomfortable.
> 
> Anyway, the real OTP here is ZhaoCake _anyway._



He brings it on to himself, I'm just waiting for this nguy to start talking in third person.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I do not have a "fantasy life," I simply give an effort to be positive and optimistic in everything that I do, and I always attempt to see the "bright side of life," to use a well-known phrase.




*Spoiler*: __ 



 The bright side of life...and i*c*st.  You're really quite a character  

This is like the third post I've messed up in the last few days.  I'm coming off of some serious pain medication for my back.  Sorry all.  I should have written "rich fantasies."  I certainly didn't mean fantasy life whereas that lies in direct opposition to my thoughts, and doesn't really make any damn sense with what I wrote. 

To be blunt DDJ, I think what you've written is ridiculous.  It's obvious that you write about these things for shock value *yawns* - but, quite frankly, it just fizzles.  Yes, a blind person can see your statements are in perfect contrast to your pretentious, too straight laced, stick up your ass writer's voice.  Ha ha  - it's worn thin.  Shut the hell up already.




Edit sorry Koi - here, I'll spoil this.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 7, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 7, 2011)

1,030+ pages.
20,650+ posts.
It was an honor seeing the thread get so far.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 7, 2011)

I always wanted to see a flash back of Iroh's son, Lu Ten, while he was older.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 8, 2011)

Stark042 said:


> I always wanted to see a flash back of Iroh's son, Lu Ten, while he was older.



I would like to have seen any appearance of Lu Ten while he was alive; the only appearances that Lu Ten has in the series is his while Iroh is mourning him during _Tales of Ba Sing Se,_ a flashback of him as a child in _Bitter Work,_ and a mention during _Zuko Alone._ However, perhaps the storywriters deliberately did not give Lu Ten a major presence in this series, to allow the audience to use their imaginations to form their own interpretations of his character.


----------



## Koi (Jan 8, 2011)

Piekage said:


> _Anyone_Cake is a OTP. Dat Cake is a real bicycle.





_Mmmmmm._





Edit: But wait!











Searching 'Zuko cake' yields disappointingly little.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 8, 2011)

OK guys, you might have heard some rumblings around the forum, and I want to be the first to be the one to tell you guys:

This thread is being broken up.

Like the Soviet Union.

Like Yugoslavia.

Like the 17 Provinces. 


It's come down from above that, for some reason, threads over 10,000 posts are a menace to the forum and must be suppressed. 300 threads, almost entirely within the FCs, were named. Threads were going to be pruned, without warning, but thankfully we stepped in. Now there's the other option: splitting.

So I'm going to be splitting our beloved thread into three parts. I don't want to do this. I don't agree with it and I'm not even going to put on the public facade of agreeing with it. But there's nothing that we can do. It was either this or every post over a year old would have vanished, out of the blue.

We made it to 1,000 pages. We're probably the last thread that will ever do that.

I also made sure that nobody would ever take our beloved thread and it's glory away. I'm screencapping the whole goddamn thread. In fact, I'm posting this from page 932. Yes, 932 pages have been screencapped.

So within the next few days, I'll be moving the first 10,000 posts into it's own thread. Then the next ten thousand into it's own thread. And then this, the behemoth thread of the Theater, will be a tiny little thread again.

I may actually make three archive threads, so that I keep more into this main thread. I may cut off by date, so that this thread stretches back to around late-June (pre-movie). Either way, things will look different. We're just going to have to go with it.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 8, 2011)

screen cap it and then wki it

wait, will the post count go down?


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 8, 2011)

So now the thread will still be there, but stored in three parts?
How is that going to change anything?


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 8, 2011)

Way to take care of this thread Jove.  Your dedication is impressive.


----------



## Shade (Jan 8, 2011)

That sucks 

This monolithic thread was a cherished and vital part of not only NF but Avatar fandom.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 8, 2011)

I'll be sad to see it split.

How does the spliting of a thread actually work?


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 8, 2011)

Will this be the place to discuss Korra as well?  Half the fun of the new series will be comparing it to the old.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 8, 2011)

Yeah, everything will go here.  The only difference will be that several hundred pages are being moved into their own threads. Our omnibus thread is being divided.

And: mission accomplished. 5 GB of screencaps.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 8, 2011)

TO THE CLOUD!

 I'm still gonna be the second highest poster, right?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> TO THE CLOUD!
> 
> I'm still gonna be the second highest poster, right?



I dunno, you'll probably eclipse me now.

In the archives, though, I'll now always stand alone at the top.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 8, 2011)

We're at the same count as of this post 

Get ready Jove, only one of us shall be Firelord


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> We're at the same count as of this post
> 
> Get ready Jove, only one of us shall be Firelord



I may not have the greatest number of posts in this thread, but I am very pleased to see that at least I am on that list.


----------



## Burke (Jan 8, 2011)

5th? I was 4th... until this new kid named terra started spamming the thread 
Love ya girl!

I think that now would be the best time to seriously petition an avatar subforum ^_^ 

You know, so we still ahve a way to keep all of our awesomeness in realitvely the same place!


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> We're at the same count as of this post
> 
> Get ready Jove, only one of us shall be Firelord



Melon Lord>>>Fire Lord 

You should have known better Reikai.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 8, 2011)

Obviously you caught up in the last two weeks, which is fine.

I'm still Avatar Joveku.


----------



## Burke (Jan 8, 2011)

So, recap, there will be three A:TLA threads after the split, two 500 page ones acting as archives, and one with the left over pages that will serve as the active main thread. And apparently when that reaches 500 pages, it too will become an archive, and a new thread will be made ( BY JOVE AND JOVE ONLY )
right?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 8, 2011)

Just think, it all started with Dime whipping up a "discusion" thread one day, and that humble little thing became this :33

I could cry


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 8, 2011)

I think that whenever it reaches 500/250 pages, I'll just archive it all again. It will ALWAYS be Nickelodean's "Avatar: The Last Airbender" Discusion.

On a side note: as I blister through pages in other places, trying to satisfy this ridiculous decree... god DAMN 40 posts per page is garbage.


----------



## Burke (Jan 8, 2011)

What are you saying 40 a page? waa?
I thought 20 a page was normals


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 8, 2011)

Jove hasn't been using the cool kid settings from the start? 

You are no Avatar to me 

...

Okay, you are, but I'm still disappointed in you


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 8, 2011)

Yeah, 20ppp is the only way you should be viewing NF. Not like some decadent lush like Rekky. He truly is the Fire Lord, and I'm the affable, populist Avatar everyone looks to for help.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 8, 2011)

Hey, that Firelord is my father 

I am not my father


----------



## Koi (Jan 8, 2011)

When you split the thread, can you retitle the locked one Book One: Air?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 8, 2011)

Koi said:


> When you split the thread, can you retitle the locked one Book One: Air?







I was thinking of eras. For instance:


The Has the New Chapter Been Released Era


One thing I noticed screencapping all this... say what you will about DDJ, but at least he's not MartialHorror, right?


----------



## Piekage (Jan 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> We're at the same count as of this post
> 
> Get ready Jove, only one of us shall be Firelord



*Is happy he made the list*

Yay for last place! Your next Superrazien.


> One thing I noticed screencapping all this... say what you will about DDJ, but at least he's not MartialHorror, right?



Truth.


----------



## Burke (Jan 8, 2011)

I liked when martial came back while DDJ was in full swing, but i was dissapointed to not see the epic troll war i had expected from it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 8, 2011)

DDJ has yet to see the movie right? <_<

When he starts to talk about it, lets invite MH >_>


----------



## Shade (Jan 8, 2011)

Are we really going to invite MH? Please tell me we're not going to invite MH.

Sturdy as this thread is, it too has limits on its troll threshold.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 8, 2011)

Koi said:


> Searching 'Zuko cake' yields disappointingly little.


Cause they were all burnt on one side.


----------



## Koi (Jan 8, 2011)

Jove said:


> I was thinking of eras. For instance:
> 
> 
> The Has the New Chapter Been Released Era
> ...


Hah!  Eras work too. :3

Can we vote on what they'll  be called?



Snow Miser said:


> Cause they were all burnt on one side.


Oh wait!  Zuko hates cake.  He only enjoys silver sandwiches.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 8, 2011)

Just take a bite


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 9, 2011)

Why is it necessary to divide this thread into several smaller threads? Do larger threads use greater bandwidth on the server that hosts this website? And how did Reikai Demon view the total number of posts by each user in this thread? I have attempted to find that feature, but been unable to do so, so could another user assist me in locating it?



ReikaiDemon said:


> DDJ has yet to see the movie right? <_<
> 
> When he starts to talk about it, lets invite MH >_>



I have not yet seen M. Night Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender,_ but I have heard many negative reviews of it, similar to the reception of _Dragon Ball: Evolution,_ so I am not certain that I will enjoy it, and thus, I am not likely to see it at any point in the near future.

The fact that you have mentioned the user Martial Horror makes me wish to ask: what was he like in his posts, and is it a good thing or a bad thing that you wish to see me engage him in conversation?

To return to the subject of the series, the main antagonists of _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ will be an anti-bender movement, it seems. Why would they oppose benders? While it is true that benders can cause great destruction, they also can be very useful and helpful to society, and even their powers are not unlimited. I hope that not _every_ person in the new series is opposed to benders and bending, because opposing benders simply because of their power is very irrational, in my mind.

And on the subject of parings, I would like to have seen Haru paired with either Toph, because they were both Earthbenders, or Ty Lee, because the two of them were among the most recurring and important characters apart from the primary characters of the series.


----------



## Burke (Jan 9, 2011)

Shade said:


> Are we really going to invite MH? Please tell me we're not going to invite MH.
> 
> Sturdy as this thread is, it too has limits on its troll threshold.



It is quite a gamble sure, we are not certain of the outcomes if we were to add MH and DDJ to the same thread.

either

MH + DDJ = troll catastophy

or

MH + DDJ = the dissapearance of both


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 9, 2011)

I think after a century of war, they'd be within their rights to hate benders...


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 9, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> To return to the subject of the series, the main antagonists of _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ will be an anti-bender movement, it seems. Why would they oppose benders? While it is true that benders can cause great destruction, they also can be very useful and helpful to society, and even their powers are not unlimited. I hope that not _every_ person in the new series is opposed to benders and bending, because opposing benders simply because of their power is very irrational, in my mind.
> 
> And on the subject of parings, I would like to have seen Haru paired with either Toph, because they were both Earthbenders, or Ty Lee, because the two of them were among the most recurring and important characters apart from the primary characters of the series.



That's the point. People _can _be irrational. And when people are afraid and in large groups, shit tends to get real. _Really _real. 

And Haru had almost zero lines after the episode that focused on him. Just because he was on screen doesn't mean he was an important character. He and Toph never even spoke to each other.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 9, 2011)

Well, the beauty of course is that I can change the titles whenever, so we can take our time naming our legacies.

The 10K limit is just the maximum. I can break it down as small as I'd like. I can make a thread just for Finale Week, or something like that. I can break it down by Books. Whatever.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 9, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I think after a century of war, they'd be within their rights to hate benders...



That would be true, except for the fact that benders were also fighting against the Fire Nation, not simply for it, and than numerous non-benders fought on all sides in the war, as well.



Level7N00b said:


> And Haru had almost zero lines after the episode that focused on him. Just because he was on screen doesn't mean he was an important character. He and Toph never even spoke to each other.



Yes, I know that, but I was being purely hypothetical, as other users were discussing the subject of parings several pages ago. Surely, there is nothing wrong with speaking in hypothetical terms?


----------



## Koi (Jan 9, 2011)

Joveku you should break it down to stages in your Avatar training.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 9, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That would be true, except for the fact that benders were also fighting against the Fire Nation, not simply for it, and than numerous non-benders fought on all sides in the war, as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know that, but I was being purely hypothetical, as other users were discussing the subject of parings several pages ago. Surely, there is nothing wrong with speaking in hypothetical terms?


It was a conflict that involved benders, therefore the popular notion would be that benders are to blame. 

Also, don't forget that many Earthbenders committed heinous acts as well, against their own people no less. Regardless of who is actually at fault, it doesn't matter, it's a realistic view of irrational hate. 

Besides, benders are going to be outmoded by technology, so most people don't need bending anymore.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 9, 2011)

Koi said:


> Joveku you should break it down to stages in your Avatar training.



See, you always know what's up. You're definitely my War Minister.


Oh, and Haru ends up with Azula. Is Canon.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 9, 2011)

> That would be true, except for the fact that benders were also fighting against the Fire Nation, not simply for it, and than numerous non-benders fought on all sides in the war, as well.


Look at things this way. If someone like Superman came to Earth how would you feel? Some people would idolise him, some with live in fear of the day that he decides to step outside the law as there is essentially nothing to keep him in check. 

That part deals with the fact that they have no control over individuals with superhuman abilities. 

Going a step further, suppose Superman decided to populate the Earth. As a normal individual how would you feel when random individuals start displaying abilities that you could never hope to compete with? They have a different mentality their father who's job is to protect the world. You would live your life in fear. 

The fire nation was once a peaceful nation that belief changed with the newer generation. 

Overall point is people have good reason to believe benders have the capability of upsetting the world's balance.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 9, 2011)

People should be scared shitless of earthbenders, since they can just pull you down into the ground whenever they want to without leaving evidence. At least when the other benders murder you there's still a corpse to deal with.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd be interested to see if the anti-bender strategy takes Ty Lee's method to a grander scale. Technological ways to block chi.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 10, 2011)

Bullet through the head tends to block chi very well


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

OK guys, here's how it's going to play out. Let me know what you think.


Book 1: Water -  The Beginning to Finale Week (Establishment of thread akin to early episodes, the triumph of Finale Week being our Seige of the North)

Book 2: Earth - Finale Week to The Movie (Begins with the aftermath of Book 1, a long and confusing period that ends in utter defeat)

Book 3: Fire - Korra Press Release to Present (Begins with a new hope, settles into new territory, the old characters learn to deal with the new ones)


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 10, 2011)

Jove said:


> I'd be interested to see if the anti-bender strategy takes Ty Lee's method to a grander scale. Technological ways to block chi.


It would be lulz if a group tried to kill the sun and moon.

Apparently, it was said somewhere that Earthbenders had a boost in the spring time...


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 10, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> It would be lulz if a group tried to kill the sun and moon.
> 
> Apparently, it was said somewhere that Earthbenders had a boost in the spring time...



Really

I heard that Waterbenders are commonly born in Winter, Earthbenders in Spring, Firebenders in Summer, and Airbenders in Autumn.

For Firebenders and Waterbenders, it's understandable, the temperature is advantageous to their bending. Not sure about Earth and Air though.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

I think it was in that Avatar Pocket Guide, right? The bending disciplines all have complementary seasons.

We need to get to 30k so I can make the next chapter in our saga, Avatar Discusion: the Legend of Koirra.


----------



## Burke (Jan 10, 2011)

10,000 posts, 9 months, lets do this

_"Its the final count doooowwwn!!~~"_


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 10, 2011)

Must always have a typo in the thread title.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

So what I'm going to do is let the original thread keep it's number. I'm going to break the end off first, and then split the other side. Then they will be locked and stand as monoliths.

And I mean monoliths in the _2001: a Space Odyssey_ sense. This thread will be a catalyst for future earthling evolution.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 10, 2011)

My DDJaydar is coming along nicely.
I was able to identify 


> Is it Good to Have a Romantic Partner who is Similar to Oneself?


as a DDJ thread without looking at the name of the OP


----------



## Noah (Jan 10, 2011)

Jove said:


> So what I'm going to do is let the original thread keep it's number. I'm going to break the end off first, and then split the other side. Then they will be locked and stand as monoliths.
> 
> And I mean monoliths in the _2001: a Space Odyssey_ sense. This thread will be a catalyst for future earthling evolution.



But! What about those who don't believe in evolution!? Or have evolved so far beyond human standards that we can only label them as robots because their thinking is so infallibly logical?!

What about theeeeeemmmmmmm?!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 10, 2011)

Jove said:


> I think it was in that Avatar Pocket Guide, right? The bending disciplines all have complementary seasons.
> 
> We need to get to 30k so I can make the next chapter in our saga, Avatar Discusion: the Legend of Koirra.


Yeah, but some bit of trivia actually says that Earthbenders are stronger in the spring. Could be just something minor for all the benders though, in their respective seasons, rather than something like the full moon and the comet.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

Alright, here it is. We are now in Book 3. By the numbers, this split counts as our failed invasion. Now, time to make the big split and put the links at the front. Back in fucking forever.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow, I have the most posts in this book.

Though, Terra is second...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

I'll take care of that soon enough. You two just got that way from bickering at each other. Fucking collusion.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 10, 2011)

Hey, when you go to war with the firenation, flames will rise


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

Oddly enough, with the way the thread breaks down, I'm not the top poster in any incarnation of the thread.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> Bullet through the head tends to block chi very well



That is true, except for the fact that firearms do not currently exist in the universe of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ and that shooting someone through the head will, under normal circumstances, kill them, thus defeating the purpose of Ty Lee's _ki-_disrupting technique. The purpose of her fighting style was to disable an enemy without needing to kill them, in the case that they needed to be captured alive.

And how is it that Ty Lee was the only person with the ability to block another person's _ki?_ In hundreds or thousands of years, I am certain that there must have been other people with the ability, but no mention of the ability was ever made outside of Ty Lee' using it, which I find to be very odd. And why did Mai not learn the ability? She is not a bender, yet she frequently fights against benders, so she could certainly make use of that technique, plus, in my mind, she has a better disposition for it; to me, Ty Lee's overly-cheerful personality is not at all the personality that would match with a fighting style that disables an opponent by disrupting the flow of their _ki:_ I would usually expect such a fighting style to be used by someone with Mai's or Azula's personalities.



Gunners said:


> Look at things this way. If someone like Superman came to Earth how would you feel? Some people would idolise him, some with live in fear of the day that he decides to step outside the law as there is essentially nothing to keep him in check.
> 
> That part deals with the fact that they have no control over individuals with superhuman abilities.
> 
> ...



You do have a good point there, but I hope that the anti-benders do not _seriously_ expect that the benders will cease to use their power simply because the anti-benders are distrustful of it. They have that power, and they should not be ashamed to use it. For example, in actuality, I strongly support the right of the people to privately own and carry firearms. If another person, whether they were a government official or an ordinary civilian, told me that I had no right to own or carry that firearm and then demanded that I relinquish it, I would point the firearm at that person and say "try to take if from me." Similarly, I hope that any bender in _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ who is threatened by a non-bender will return the threat with their power, because they should not submit to discrimination.

I notice that this "anti-bender sentiment" in _The Legend of Korra_ seems to be similar to the anti-mutant sentiment in the _X-Men_ franchise: has anyone else noticed that?



Nodonn said:


> My DDJaydar is coming along nicely.
> I was able to identify
> 
> 
> ...



I am not certain if I should be pleased or displeased that you are actively searching for threads that I start, although it is good that you were able to identify it as one that I had started simply by reading the title, as I do wish to ensure that my writing style is unmistakably different from that of any other user on this forum. However, why did you believe that it was necessary to mention that in this thread? That thread has no relation at all to this one here, so I believe that your mention of it was completely unnecessary.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That is true, except for the fact that firearms do not currently exist in the universe of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ and that shooting someone through the head will, under normal circumstances, kill them, thus defeating the purpose of Ty Lee's _ki-_disrupting technique. The purpose of her fighting style was to disable an enemy without needing to kill them, in the case that they needed to be captured alive.
> 
> And how is it that Ty Lee was the only person with the ability to block another person's _ki?_ In hundreds or thousands of years, I am certain that there must have been other people with the ability, but no mention of the ability was ever made outside of Ty Lee' using it, which I find to be very odd. And why did Mai not learn the ability? She is not a bender, yet she frequently fights against benders, so she could certainly make use of that technique, plus, in my mind, she has a better disposition for it; to me, Ty Lee's overly-cheerful personality is not at all the personality that would match with a fighting style that disables an opponent by disrupting the flow of their _ki:_ I would usually expect such a fighting style to be used by someone with Mai's or Azula's personalities.
> 
> ...


The way things have been advancing, firearms will come into existence within a few generations. There are already chemical explosives in the series.

Also, it irks me that you insist on using Ki. Ki and Chi/Qi are different things culturally. In Japan, Ki has it's own belief system, in that it is intent and things yet not to be known that carry energy. In Avatar, they use the Chinese meaning for Chi as a universal energy. Also, you're coming off like a certain someone who made a certain movie, with certain changes to certain names because that certain person thought that it was more culturally relevant to that certain person...Certainly...Pronounce it the way it is in the series.

Well, a bullet to the noggin would certainly stop the use and flow of chi for the person that once was. The body still holds chi though 

Feels rather like Princess Mononoke, and a few of Miyazaki's other features. It's allegorical of nature being killed by industrialism.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Also, it irks me that you insist on using Ki. Ki and Chi/Qi are different things culturally. In Japan, Ki has it's own belief system, in that it is intent and things yet not to be known that carry energy. In Avatar, they use the Chinese meaning for Chi as a universal energy. Also, you're coming off like a certain someone who made a certain movie, with certain changes to certain names because that certain person thought that it was more culturally relevant to that certain person...Certainly...Pronounce it the way it is in the series.



I was not aware that _Chi_ and _Ki_ were not the same thing, Reikai Demon; I merely thought that _"ki"_ was the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word. For example, I know that _Tianxia_ means "under heaven" in Chinese, and that the Japanese pronunciation of the word _Tenka,_ has the same definition and differs only in pronunciation, so I presumed that it was the same with _chi_ and _ki._ Therefore, I hope that you will forgive me for not being aware that there was a different.

By the way, are you Asian, Reikai Demon? You speak of Asian culture in such manner that you seem to be Asian, so I wish to know, and if you are, I certainly would not presume to disagree with someone who would have firsthand knowledge of such a subject.

However, I do not at all appreciate the fact that you are comparing me to M. Night Shyamalan (who else could that "certain someone" who made a "certain movie" be?); he attempted to provide a completely different portrayal of the world of this series, while I merely wrote one word that was different from the word that was used in the series.

And why do you pick apart my statements without actually responding to them? Your above post would not have been nearly as bothersome if you had _actually answered my question_ after you had informed me of the fact that _chi_ and _ki_ are not the same, and actually, with that being said, can you prove that they different? Since you made the claim, the burden of proof is upon you. I went to the _Wikipedia_ for _chi,_ and it did not mention any difference in the Chinese and Japanese versions of the philosophy, apart from the pronunciation of the word, so I must presume that you are deriving your information from another source.

On the subject of the difference between Chinese and Japanese culture, would this series have been any different if its world had been modeled more strongly after ancient Japan than ancient China, apart from the names of the characters and locations. I myself am much more fond of Japanese culture than I am of Chinese culture, but that certainly did not detract from my enjoyment of the series: I simply am speaking in hypothetical terms.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

The "Me " in Rekky's sig is not ironic.

As for the show focusing more on Japanese culture... I wouldn't say the show _focused_ more on one culture over another. The nature of the Avatar world would make a narrative reliant upon the Earth Kingdom; Japanese history can be found in the Fire Nation, and was prominent as well.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I was not aware that _Chi_ and _Ki_ were not the same thing, Reikai Demon; I merely thought that _"ki"_ was the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word. For example, I know that _Tianxia_ means "under heaven" in Chinese, and that the Japanese pronunciation of the word _Tenka,_ has the same definition and differs only in pronunciation, so I presumed that it was the same with _chi_ and _ki._ Therefore, I hope that you will forgive me for not being aware that there was a different.
> 
> By the way, are you Asian, Reikai Demon? You speak of Asian culture in such manner that you seem to be Asian, so I wish to know, and if you are, I certainly would not presume to disagree with someone who would have firsthand knowledge of such a subject.
> 
> ...


They are different languages, if they share the same words and meanings, they would be dialects. 

As for proof, it's not much talked about in the west, the same way people in the west mistakenly misinterpret the Taijitu. Ask people close to the cultures, they will know. Wikipedia is terrible for subtle things like this. In fact, you need to look no farther than the language. In Japanese, the characters for Ki forms words for feelings, surroundings, and senses. The way they use the word Ki, in context, is so often used to describe intent and feeling from a person. That's why you hear things like "I sense a murderous ki..." in anime. 

Ignorance is no excuse when you refuse to take things exactly as it is written and pronounced in an established way in the series. That's just an effort to stay ignorant.

M. Night didn't know that Aang in the series was actually pronounced close to Tibetan and some Chinese ways to pronounce his name; especially since the characters written for his name isn't pronounced with a hard ONG as in bong. It was preference and ignorance.

Also, I thought you already knew a long time ago, I think I remember when you asked if I was Japanese or Chinese.

Why do you like Japanese culture more?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 10, 2011)

Dang, we're gonna be in the pruning process, guys. 

This is a sad loss. 

Asian Drama FC


> 74426 Nickelodean's "Avatar: The Last Airbender" Discusion - Naruto Forums



I was wondering why I couldn't find the thread....


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Dang, we're gonna be in the pruning process, guys.
> 
> This is a sad loss.
> 
> Asian Drama FC



Oh for God's sake...

Take a look around, Terra. Notice anything different?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 10, 2011)

Jove said:


> Oh for God's sake...
> 
> Take a look around, Terra. Notice anything different?



Yes, I do. That's why I couldn't find the thread and the title is different. xD
It wasn't really hard to see the title, the owner of the thread and everything else. 

(I had edited my post c: )


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

Yeah, we _were_ going to get pruned, and this whole directive is fucking ridicuous. Mbxx is wholly detestable, but he swears that the forum was being hindered by those threads. Even though most of those threads have been over 10k for years.


By the way, in Book 2: Earth, I'm going to list The Post as our Secret of the Fire Nation event.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 10, 2011)

I haven't seen a difference in the performance of the site, if they've pruned other threads already. When I was entering the thread, it took forever to get in.

I have a hard time believing it was the threads causing the problems. But then again, I've never owned Vb before. :/

EDIT:
Well, I suppose the thread was too big. Whenever I tried to check who posted and how many, it would say "way too many" and not list names and whatnot xD


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 10, 2011)

Yeah, that was another change he made without telling us. He made it impossible to view "who posted" on threads over 10,000.


I think I need to review the Art Book. It really is transcendent. Also, the Track Team still have not made their "announcement." Godammit, the time has come for an OST; make it official.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 10, 2011)

So it begins..


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> They are different languages, if they share the same words and meanings, they would be dialects.
> 
> As for proof, it's not much talked about in the west, the same way people in the west mistakenly misinterpret the Taijitu. Ask people close to the cultures, they will know. Wikipedia is terrible for subtle things like this. In fact, you need to look no farther than the language. In Japanese, the characters for Ki forms words for feelings, surroundings, and senses. The way they use the word Ki, in context, is so often used to describe intent and feeling from a person. That's why you hear things like "I sense a murderous ki..." in anime.
> 
> ...



In that case, I will definitely concede this subject to you, as you obviously possess great knowledge of it.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Also, I thought you already knew a long time ago, I think I remember when you asked if I was Japanese or Chinese.



I cannot recall that at all, I am sorry to say, but I thank you for answering my question, again, in that case. You speak English quite fluently, Reikai Demon, for it not being your native language; has anyone here ever told you that?



ReikaiDemon said:


> Why do you like Japanese culture more?



I am more fond of Japanese culture both because I the Japanese language sounds better to my ears, me being a native English speaker, and because I am more familiar with it, and I am more familiar with it because of the great amount of Japanese animation that I watch and I am also a student of Kenpo Karate, a Japanese martial art (although the style that I practice was founded by an American master, so is almost certainly not the same as a style directly from Japan). Of course, I know that neither of these factors is sufficient to be highly knowledgeable about Japanese culture, but I have learned about it from other sources, as well, such as history books in my school or online research. I do wish to visit Japan at some point in the future, but I first wish to be able to speak Japanese fluently, and I shall also need money to travel there, as well.

Now, again, I shall ask: how is it that no mention of the ability to disrupt the flow of a person's _chi_ was ever made outside of Ty Lee's usage of the ability, and why did Mai not learn the technique?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In that case, I will definitely concede this subject to you, as you obviously possess great knowledge of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Please, don't patronize me like it's impossible for me or anyone else to learn a language

That's a somewhat shallow reason to like Japanese culture...

It's just a martial arts epic trope. Knowledge of a style goes hand in hand with a character's personality, and there are usually few individuals that know the same martial art. 

Foreign manipulation of chi has been demonstrated by Waterbenders, only it's the restoration of the flow of chi to areas of the body.

Perhaps, going into fanon now, with Firebending being the yang to Waterbending; it may be a martial art known in the Firenation. Popular theory was that the founder of Tai Chi also founded Dim Mak. Tai Chi is the style they use for Waterbending, while Dim Mak is Ty Lee's style. A person's martial arts in a martial arts epic, is often indicative of their lineage. Now, it could be that somehow, Ty Lee has Waterbender ancestry; and somehow, they gradually became nobility. This must be at least more than a century ago, before the Firenation war. 

Although, she could just be a person that knows a unique style. Like they say, the absence of evidence isn't necessarily the evidence of absence. She may just be the one person we see of many that just aren't mentioned.

She did tour in a circus for a stretch of her life, so she may have just picked it up somewhere.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Please, don't patronize me like it's impossible for me or anyone else to learn a language.



I was not patronizing you; I meant that as a serious compliment, but words that are typed cannot convey tone of voice or emotion, which likely led to the misunderstanding.



ReikaiDemon said:


> That's a somewhat shallow reason to like Japanese culture...



It is the only reason that I have, and surely, a shallow reason is better than no reason at all? Plus, I was being honest with you, and I believe that it is better to be honest on such a subject than to lie.

How is it that you are so wise and intellectual? I give an effort to be that way, but I have found that doing so is not easy. I do not wish to live my life being "shallow," as you phrase it.



ReikaiDemon said:


> It's just a martial arts epic trope. Knowledge of a style goes hand in hand with a character's personality, and there are usually few individuals that know the same martial art.
> 
> Foreign manipulation of chi has been demonstrated by Waterbenders, only it's the restoration of the flow of chi to areas of the body.
> 
> ...



Yes, again, that is a very rational and logical explanation.


----------



## The Potential (Jan 10, 2011)

Why does Reikai dislike DDJ so much..??


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2011)

Stark042 said:


> Why does Reikai dislike DDJ so much..??



I have been wondering the same thing: I am giving my best effort to be polite to him, yet he still makes remarks that nearly any normal person would consider to be rude. I _have_ been giving an effort to improve the quality of my posts, so I am hoping that he will not be as stern in responding to them. Posts like his are exactly the type of responses that I was receiving during my time as a member of the _Dicefreaks_ online forum, and also the reason that I have no desire to return to that community.

To return to the subject of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ *this* is why I identify with Zuko so strongly: I give my best efforts to be polite to other people, yet I frequently am met with hostility or indifference. Of course, my own life has not been nearly as traumatic or dangerous as was Zuko's, but just as Zuko did, however, I intend to use these difficulties to make myself stronger, so that I will be better able to endure such harsh treatment.

On the subject of Zuko, do you believe that the tension and enmity between him and his father was one of the better examples of such a relationship in fiction? I certainly found it to be a very emotional and intense relationship, and was immensely pleased when Zuko finally told Ozai that he (Zuko) would not tolerate his father's harsh treatment any further.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 11, 2011)

Stark042 said:


> Why does Reikai dislike DDJ so much..??



Newcomer eh? He is a pretentious narrow minded individual, annoying too.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 11, 2011)

But Rekky tends to get single-minded about things, and it takes a long time to reverse Rekky's impression of you. Luckily, we hit it off immediately. 


As for Zuko and Ozai's relationship... it was an exquisite portrayal, and the very sparse screentime they shared (I would guess maybe 10 minutes total in the whole series) only makes the depiction that much more impressive.


----------



## arcanecapricorn (Jan 11, 2011)

has there been any update on the legend of korra series yet? anyone?.......


----------



## The Potential (Jan 11, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Newcomer eh? He is a pretentious narrow minded individual, annoying too.



No, I've seen what DDJ can do, he has annoyed me a couple of times, but Rekky... lol. It's to an extreme, even when he did nothing.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 11, 2011)

Stark042 said:


> No, I've seen what DDJ can do, he has annoyed me a couple of times, but Rekky... lol. It's to an extreme, even when he did nothing.



In that situation it wasn't extreme, DDJ was being culturally disrespectful.


----------



## Burke (Jan 11, 2011)

Hmm my posting influence on this thread is signifigantly lower...
Must spam now!


----------



## Mider T (Jan 11, 2011)

Never a dull day in the Avatar thread, always holding us over


----------



## Noah (Jan 11, 2011)

Gunners said:


> In that situation it wasn't extreme, DDJ was being culturally disrespectful.



Hey now. Respect is a two way street. Those cultures gotta EARN it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 11, 2011)

Nøøps said:


> Hmm my posting influence on this thread is signifigantly lower...
> Must spam now!


You do that, and I shall rain fury upon you with the shrieking horror of a thousand BAT LEMURS!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 11, 2011)

I'll be in the corner...


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 12, 2011)

In the past few days I've been having more problems with this forum going down than in the past year.
I thought the pruning was supposed to make things better?


----------



## The Potential (Jan 12, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> In the past few days I've been having more problems with this forum going down than in the past year.
> I thought the pruning was supposed to make things better?



Agreed!!!


----------



## Burke (Jan 12, 2011)

im concerned that there havent been 20+ posts a day anymore.... wait... wheres DDJ


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 12, 2011)

We pruned him.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 12, 2011)

Jove said:


> We pruned him.


Inconceivable.


----------



## Wan (Jan 13, 2011)

I do not think that word means what you think it means.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 13, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> I do not think that word means what you think it means.



?adjective1.not conceivable; unimaginable; unthinkable 

 2.unbelievable; incredible.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 13, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> I do not think that word means what you think it means.



Inigo Montoya - quality since 1987


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 13, 2011)

OH! The Princess Bride. Man it's been forever.


----------



## Burke (Jan 13, 2011)

You see reikai here in america land we have these things called movies and...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 13, 2011)

N??ps said:


> You see reikai here in america land we have these things called movies and...


Really? Well we have something called books...


----------



## Burke (Jan 13, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Really? Well we have something called books...



You mean those paper thingies?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 13, 2011)

No, he means the 20-episode Avatar seasons. We're in the Avatar thread, you dolt.


----------



## Burke (Jan 13, 2011)

Jove said:


> No, he means the 20-episode Avatar seasons. We're in the Avatar thread, you dolt.



Darn, im such a let down


----------



## Stunna (Jan 13, 2011)

lmao

Has there been any news on Korra lately?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 13, 2011)

None that I've noticed. Last I recall was Dante Basco's twitter updates.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 13, 2011)

What the hell is with all the Azula sets on the forum?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 13, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> What the hell is with all the Azula sets on the forum?


We exert a certain pressure


----------



## CrazyAries (Jan 14, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> What the hell is with all the Azula sets on the forum?



How many have you seen?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 14, 2011)

That gives me an idea for new top 5:


*Characters with the Craziest Fandom*​

*5. Hawky*

_Driven insane by the lack of recognition for this valorous, magnificent paragon of everything good and decent._


*4. Toph*

_Toph's fans are good kind of bonkers. Intently devoted, but rarely at the unsavory level exhibited by fans of other characters. But the devotion is intense. It doesn't go much further beyond that; unfortunately, Toph's fandom often gets brushed aside by the shipping and loony fandoms._


*3. Zhao*

_Zhao's fanbase is another good kind of crazy. They make fun fanart, write interesting fanfiction, invent fandom-wide memes... all the things that are the sinews of a great fan culture. Cake, Water Tribe Zhao, Sideburns... all are instantly evocative to Avatarlings, for good reason._


*2. Azula*

_Azula always lies, a certain disgraced Prince once said. To Azula fangirls/boys, she's never lost either. There's an admirable insanity to the way they completely defy logic and twist canon to placer Azula at the apex of the Avatar World._


*1. Zuko*

_Two words: Banished Prince. The crazies in the Zutara equation fall heavily on the Zuko side of things. Many will also remember their totally histrionic and/or nihilistic reaction to Zuko's decision at the end of Book 1. There's a really odd Livejournal ethos to Zuko's hardcore fanbase, and that's why they get the nod; Azula's crazies are confrontational, but Zuko's crazies create ungodly drama._


----------



## Burke (Jan 15, 2011)

Jove said:


> That gives me an idea for new top 5:
> 
> 
> *Characters with the Craziest Fandom*​
> ...



And so is the word of Jove.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 15, 2011)

CrazyAries said:


> How many have you seen?



You know...that nasty little emoticon  lends itself to some very vile implications.  One might be tempted to think you're saying: 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Biatch please 




*Spoiler*: __ 



GTFO 




*Spoiler*: __ 



or even - Alright...clearly you have your head up your ass 




I didn't count them.  But for your information  I've seen _plenty_. 



 jk seen a few.


----------



## ElementX (Jan 15, 2011)

Jove said:


> That gives me an idea for new top 5:
> 
> 
> *Characters with the Craziest Fandom*​
> ...



Four of those characters are from the Fire Nation. What's up with that?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 15, 2011)

Fire's an unstable element.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 15, 2011)

Jove's an unstable element.

 just kidding of course.


----------



## Shade (Jan 15, 2011)

Hawky has fandom, let alone crazy fandom? Beside Jove, I mean.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 15, 2011)

Rekky's the BNF of the Hawky Squadron.


----------



## Jeroen (Jan 15, 2011)

Just watched the movie. 
I knew it would suck, but, damn, I didn't expect it to be this bad....


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 15, 2011)

No mention of Wang Fiyah's fandom? I suspect bias.


----------



## Bender (Jan 15, 2011)

Wanna know who my favorite bender is on the show?


----------



## Gunners (Jan 15, 2011)

I should probably get around to watching the Avatar movie, it's sat next to watching all the Twilight movies and finishing DBE.


----------



## ElementX (Jan 15, 2011)

Gunners said:


> I should probably get around to watching the Avatar movie, it's sat next to watching all the Twilight movies and finishing DBE.



The best of the worst, huh?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 15, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> No mention of Wang Fiyah's fandom? I suspect bias.



That fandom is an appropriate level of devoted.


----------



## CrazyAries (Jan 15, 2011)

R o f l c o p t e r said:


> Just watched the movie.
> I knew it would suck, but, damn, I didn't expect it to be this bad....



So you finally posted. 

I am going to watch that movie out of morbid curiosity.


----------



## Burke (Jan 15, 2011)

i watched it on dubhappy, not sure why they had it.


----------



## Jeroen (Jan 16, 2011)

CrazyAries said:


> So you finally posted.
> 
> I am going to watch that movie out of morbid curiosity.


 
Yeah... I figured I might as well. 

I recommend not watching it.. but I can understand why you'd wanna watch it tho. It's the same reason I watched DBE and one of the Twilight movies. 

I rewatched the first season of A:TLA right after watching the movie.. just to get the shittyness of the movie out of my head.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 16, 2011)

If Combustion Man had still been alive when Sozin's Comet had arrived, how might his unique form of firebending been enhanced? Would have have been able to do perform any new feats, or would he simply, have been capable of producing larger explosions? And does anyone else find it to be unfortunate that among the protagonists, only Toph possessed a unique form of bending (the abilities to sense vibrations and to bend metal), while more than one antagonist possessed rare of unique bending abilities (Azula's blue fire, Combustion Man's ability to create explosions, Hama's bloodbending, or Azula and Ozai's ability to generate lightning)? Actually, Katara demonstrated that she was capable of using bloodbending, but she disassociated herself with the technique and its creator, and Iroh could generate lightning, but he did so only to demonstrate the ability to Zuko. Several firebenders breathed fire, so I am not including that as one of the "rare or unique abilities" that I mentioned above.

To change the subject, does the ability to redirect lightning seem to be determined more strongly by physical strength and constitution or by mental strength and willpower? I am asking because I seek to incorporate such an ability into a _Dungeons & Dragons_ campaign that I shall soon be running, and I need to decide if a fortitude save or a will save shall be needed to determine the success of an attempt to use the ability.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 16, 2011)

> If Combustion Man had still been alive when Sozin's Comet had arrived, how might his unique form of firebending been enhanced? Would have have been able to do perform any new feats, or would he simply, have been capable of producing larger explosions? And does anyone else find it to be unfortunate that among the protagonists, only Toph possessed a unique form of bending (the abilities to sense vibrations and to bend metal), while more than one antagonist possessed rare of unique bending abilities (Azula's blue fire, Combustion Man's ability to create explosions, Hama's bloodbending, or Azula and Ozai's ability to generate lightning)? Actually, Katara demonstrated that she was capable of using bloodbending, but she disassociated herself with the technique and its creator, and Iroh could generate lightning, but he did so only to demonstrate the ability to Zuko. Several firebenders breathed fire, so I am not including that as one of the "rare or unique abilities" that I mentioned above.


Zuko can redirect lightning, Katara can bloodbend and remove water from air. If I can remember things correctly Iroh also used lightning to blast through the wall when they were being chased by the Dai Lee.

You can't complain about protagonist lacking certain abilities then choose to overlook the facts that show your complaints are unnecessary.


----------



## Mangopunch (Jan 16, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If Combustion Man had still been alive when Sozin's Comet had arrived, how might his unique form of firebending been enhanced? Would have have been able to do perform any new feats, or would he simply, have been capable of producing larger explosions? And does anyone else find it to be unfortunate that among the protagonists, only Toph possessed a unique form of bending (the abilities to sense vibrations and to bend metal), while more than one antagonist possessed rare of unique bending abilities (Azula's blue fire, Combustion Man's ability to create explosions, Hama's bloodbending, or Azula and Ozai's ability to generate lightning)? Actually, Katara demonstrated that she was capable of using bloodbending, but she disassociated herself with the technique and its creator, and Iroh could generate lightning, but he did so only to demonstrate the ability to Zuko. Several firebenders breathed fire, so I am not including that as one of the "rare or unique abilities" that I mentioned above.
> 
> To change the subject, does the ability to redirect lightning seem to be determined more strongly by physical strength and constitution or by mental strength and willpower? I am asking because I seek to incorporate such an ability into a _Dungeons & Dragons_ campaign that I shall soon be running, and I need to decide if a fortitude save or a will save shall be needed to determine the success of an attempt to use the ability.



-Zuko's special fire ability-To make the fangirls hot. 
-Aang-energy bending
-Katara-She still learned bloodbending and used it in rage, so she is not totally above the skill.
-Sokka's boomerang>bending

I would say the ability to redirect lightning is not pertaining to strength or willpower but more along the lines of skill. The stomach is the center of chi and it holds the lightning that is absorbed. It is like a breath in and then out as the basis of the technique(Iroh says it is based on water bending, which is in turn based on tai chi), absorption then reflection. A calm mind to redirect just like one has to have a calm mind to concentrate the breath.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 16, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> a _Dungeons & Dragons_ campaign that I shall soon be running



That may be the most ominous sentence I have ever read.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 16, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Zuko can redirect lightning, Katara can bloodbend and remove water from air. If I can remember things correctly Iroh also used lightning to blast through the wall when they were being chased by the Dai Lee.
> 
> You can't complain about protagonist lacking certain abilities then choose to overlook the facts that show your complaints are unnecessary.



I did mention how Katara has disowned the ability to bloodbend, but I did forget about Zuko and Iroh's abilities in my previous post. It was an honest and simple mistake, so I did not _choose_ to overlook anything; my memory simply failed on that particular subject.

Again, how might have Combustion Man's powers have been enhanced by Sozin's Comet? I imagine he would have been able to create even more massive explosions, but would he have been able to perform other firebending feats, as well?



Nodonn said:


> That may be the most ominous sentence I have ever read.



How is my sentence "ominous," might I ask?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 17, 2011)

Toph had an entirely different style of Earthbending

Lightning Redirection requires care in dexterity and timing.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 17, 2011)

Jove said:


> That gives me an idea for new top 5:
> *Characters with the Craziest Fandom*​*4. Toph*
> 
> _Toph's fans are good kind of bonkers. Intently devoted, but rarely at the unsavory level exhibited by fans of other characters. But the devotion is intense. It doesn't go much further beyond that; unfortunately, Toph's fandom often gets brushed aside by the shipping and loony fandoms._



I'm curious now. I need to know if I need to contain myself xD

Have I ever been unsavory when it came to Toph? 

I don't really ship her with anyone either...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 17, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Lightning Redirection requires care in dexterity and timing.



That would suggest a reflex save in _Dungeons & Dragons,_ and now that I have received several different forms of feedback, I unfortunately am no closer to being able to incorporate the ability into my game that I was previously.


----------



## Burke (Jan 17, 2011)

Lets hope that in Korra they tell us whether or not toph ever got to go on her adventure with zuko


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 17, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Lets hope that in Korra they tell us whether or not toph ever got to go on her adventure with zuko



I myself am interested in learning whether or not Toph ever reconciled with her parents, and of course, the greatest mystery of all: what happened to Ursa, and did Zuko ever learn her fate?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 17, 2011)

Uh, word of god says Toph did reconcile. Also, Hawky is with her now.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't recall seeing for certain that they reconciled, Rekky? Where did you see that?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 17, 2011)

Jove said:


> I don't recall seeing for certain that they reconciled, Rekky? Where did you see that?


Really? I thought I heard it from you...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, Hawky did end up with the Bei Fongs, according to Nick.com. We really need to ask M&B about the Nick.com material, because some of it has to have been taken directly from M&B (the Sozin stuff).

But, you know... if Hawky is on the Bei Fong estate then they all reconciled, because you know Hawky would have made sure of it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 17, 2011)

Hawky would fly through hell and Zeus' wrath to get there...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 17, 2011)

I am hesitant to ask this, but why did Sokka name his pet hawk "Hawky?" That would be the equivalent of naming a pet cat "kitty." Surely, someone as intelligent as him could have conceived a better name for a bird?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 17, 2011)

Because Hawky is the hawk of hawks.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 17, 2011)

I think a better question would be why haven't they created a mini-series of Hawky's adventures.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 17, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Hawky would fly through hades and Zeus' wrath to get there...



Fixed  ...it's a Greek thing 

4k in the Avatar thread - I'm Legendary


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 17, 2011)

Seeing as pure animals are almost mystical, it would be like naming it a Jabberwocky <_<



Soul Assassin said:


> Fixed  ...it's a Greek thing
> 
> 4k in the Avatar thread - I'm Legendary



Fool, Hawky is so epic, he can fly through the myth of ALL the cultures.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 17, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Seeing as pure animals are almost mystical, it would be like naming it a Jabberwocky <_<
> Fool, Hawky is so epic, he can fly through the myth of ALL the cultures.



 

I stand corrected good Sir


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 17, 2011)

Besides, Hades is the god, isn't it just the Underworld?


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 17, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Besides, Hades is the god, isn't it just the Underworld?



Hades is used to refer to both (the deity and the realm).


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 17, 2011)

Does Zeus' wrath really matter? Zeus better keep his wrath in check if Hawky's around.


Jupiter can get away with it, though.


----------



## ElementX (Jan 17, 2011)

Now I know why Hawky only appeared in one episode. They didn't want him outshining the Avatar.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 18, 2011)

In complete seriousness, why was Hawky present for only a single episode before being removed from the series, from an out-of-universe perspective? If Appa and Momo were sufficiently important to the plot to be present for the entire series, why not Hawky, as well?

And also on that subject, what purpose did Momo serve in the plot? While it is true that he was able to obtain items, untie ropes, or similarly delicate tasks, he was not nearly as useful as Appa, who provided both transportation and combat capability. So, again, if Momo was important to the plot, why could Hawky not be, as well?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 18, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> And also on that subject, what purpose did Momo serve?


Comedic relief. And one of the last ties Aang had to the Air Nomads' culture.

They used all of their jokes with Hawky in that one episode.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 18, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In complete seriousness, why was Hawky present for only a single episode before being removed from the series, from an out-of-universe perspective? If Appa and Momo were sufficiently important to the plot to be present for the entire series, why not Hawky, as well?
> 
> *And also on that subject, what purpose did Momo serve in the plot?* While it is true that he was able to obtain items, untie ropes, or similarly delicate tasks, he was not nearly as useful as Appa, who provided both transportation and combat capability. So, again, if Momo was important to the plot, why could Hawky not be, as well?


You're starting to sound like a certain someone again...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 18, 2011)

Momo saved Aang in The Drill.

He was also Sokka's back-up meat supply.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jan 18, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In complete seriousness, why was Hawky present for only a single episode before being removed from the series, from an out-of-universe perspective? If Appa and Momo were sufficiently important to the plot to be present for the entire series, why not Hawky, as well?
> 
> And also on that subject, what purpose did Momo serve in the plot? While it is true that he was able to obtain items, untie ropes, or similarly delicate tasks, he was not nearly as useful as Appa, who provided both transportation and combat capability. So, again, *if Momo was important to the plot, why could Hawky not be, as well?*



Because Momo had the spot covered already. The hawk wasn't important. Save if they were hungry.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 18, 2011)

> And also on that subject, what purpose did Momo serve in the plot? While it is true that he was able to obtain items, untie ropes, or similarly delicate tasks, he was not nearly as useful as Appa, who provided both transportation and combat capability. So, again, if Momo was important to the plot, why could Hawky not be, as well?


Momo represents a part of Aang's civilisation so looking at things realistically it makes sense that Aang would carry him around as he serves as a reminded of some sort, another piece of home so to speak. 

Hawky was a messenger Hawk, his purpose was to deliver messages so it was realistic for the creators to have Hawky absent whilst delivering a message to Toph's parents.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 18, 2011)

Level7N00b said:


> The hawk wasn't important.



Excuse me? "The hawk," as you disgracefully called him, was _too_ important.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 19, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> Comedic relief. And one of the last ties Aang had to the Air Nomads' culture.





Gunners said:


> Momo represents a part of Aang's civilisation so looking at things realistically it makes sense that Aang would carry him around as he serves as a reminded of some sort, another piece of home so to speak.



I do not recall the lemurs ever being connected to the Air Nomads, for I thought that the Sky Bisons were the animals with which the Air Nomads associated themselves. And why was it necessary to have Momo as comic relief? I thought that Sokka provided sufficient comic relief by himself.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 19, 2011)

Jesus Christ, can't a chink have a pet?


----------



## Nizuma Eiji (Jan 19, 2011)

Just to whore it out. I am too now a proud owner of the Avatar artbook. Money. Well. Spent.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 19, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Now I know why Hawky only appeared in one episode. They didn't want him outshining the Avatar.



xD

And they don't give Hawky his own show because they are afraid it'll do better than the original


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 19, 2011)

Momo was going to be the reincarnation of Gyatso, but that was never brought up or confirmed on the show. The concept of it remains, however; Momo is Aang's connection to his lost culture. Appa is simply his friend/soul mate animal.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 19, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Now I know why Hawky only appeared in one episode. They didn't want him outshining the Avatar.



It's a little known fact that Hawky and Momo didn't get along very well IRL.  Despite both being true professionals, producers believed that off camera tensions would eventually bleed through into their respective characters and the show would suffer as a result.  Hawky left for the good of the show, head held high, carrying with him the respect of the entire cast and crew.  

*teardrop*


...Gunners - quality ava there


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 19, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Jesus Christ, can't a chink have a pet?



First, I dislike your usage of an offensive word, but I shall ignore it, as it is irrelevant to this subject. Second, I am opposed to the concept of pets, as I believe that if a person keeps a non-human animal, they should be doing so for a good reason, such as performing a specific task or being a food supply. On that subject, Momo did help the heroes on more than one occasion, so I suppose that the reason that I was complaining about him earlier was that he was too "cute" in appearance, which neither Appa nor Hawky were (I dislike cute things, if I have never mentioned that before).



Jove said:


> Momo was going to be the reincarnation of Gyatso, but that was never brought up or confirmed on the show. The concept of it remains, however; Momo is Aang's connection to his lost culture. Appa is simply his friend/soul mate animal.



That would have been a very interesting idea; it is very unfortunate that that idea was abandoned.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 19, 2011)

> *I do not recall the lemurs ever being connected to the Air Nomads, for I thought that the Sky Bisons were the animals with which the Air Nomads associated themselves.* And why was it necessary to have Momo as comic relief? I thought that Sokka provided sufficient comic relief by himself.


Aang: You, me and Appa we're all that's left of this place. We have to stick together. 

Episode 3.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 19, 2011)

Hawky was adorable. 





Regal.


----------



## Amrun (Jan 19, 2011)

Sky lemurs were totally a huge Air Nomad thing.

Also, Appa is totally adorable.  My friend and I call him "kittypillar" as an inside joke, but it basically means OMG ADORABLE. pek


----------



## Muk (Jan 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That would suggest a reflex save in _Dungeons & Dragons,_ and now that I have received several different forms of feedback, I unfortunately am no closer to being able to incorporate the ability into my game that I was previously.



redirect lightning: readied action
will save

you ready the redirecting as seen with zuko or aang (that's the timing part)

will save cause you need a calm mind to control the flow of energy to direct it down into your stomach and out the other way.

when you are not concentrating you see what happens as zuuko gets shot by azula as she hits katara instead.

there ya go, problem solved.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 19, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Aang: You, me and Appa we're all that's left of this place. We have to stick together.
> 
> Episode 3.



Yes, I forgot about that, as it has been some time since I finished this series, and I have watched each episode only once, so I do not expect to remember every single detail of it.



Muk said:


> redirect lightning: readied action
> will save
> 
> you ready the redirecting as seen with zuko or aang (that's the timing part)
> ...



That does seem to be a logical manner in which lightning redirection would function mechanically, but most effects in _Dungeons & Dragons_ that allow a saving throw require only a single saving throw, so requiring a concentration skill check as well would make the process of redirecting the attack too complicated, so I would just say that Zuko failed his will save when he intercepted Azula's attack on Katara.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> And why was it necessary to have Momo as comic relief? I thought that Sokka provided sufficient comic relief by himself.


 So series can't have more than one source of comic relief? And there are jokes and gags that Momo can pull off that Sokka can't.


----------



## Muk (Jan 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I forgot about that, as it has been some time since I finished this series, and I have watched each episode only once, so I do not expect to remember every single detail of it.
> 
> 
> 
> That does seem to be a logical manner in which lightning redirection would function mechanically, but most effects in _Dungeons & Dragons_ that allow a saving throw require only a single saving throw, so requiring a concentration skill check as well would make the process of redirecting the attack too complicated, so I would just say that Zuko failed his will save when he intercepted Azula's attack on Katara.



i didn't say anything about needing a concentration check. what i said was "when you are not concentrating" as in failing your will power/will save

i stated the mechanics at the front which are: ready action, will save.

i was just giving reason why i was thinking along those lines.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 19, 2011)

I found out this forum has an ignore function today.
My life will be a whole lot better from now on.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 19, 2011)

> Yes, I forgot about that, as it has been some time since I finished this series, and I have watched each episode only once, so I do not expect to remember every single detail of it.


It's not a case of forgetting as all I did was give you a piece of fact that proves what common sense should tell you. You overlooked it because you view every episode thinking ''What can I complain about'', naturally you will miss and ignore the blatantly obvious.


----------



## Noah (Jan 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, I dislike your usage of an offensive word, but I shall ignore it, as it is irrelevant to this subject.



Boo hoo. He's chinese, he's allowed.



> Second, I am opposed to the concept of pets, as I believe that if a person keeps a non-human animal, they should be doing so for a good reason, such as performing a specific task or being a food supply.



Assuming you ever swindle someone into spawning with you, I feel horrible for those children. 
"Dad, can we get a puppy?"
"Nay, young offspring! However, I find that there may be two plausible two circumstances in which I may find myself in veritable agreement with thy proposal. Is it at all possible for said canine to mow yonder lawn, or shalt we be dining upon said canine when it reaches the approximate age of two celestial cycles?"

Pets already perform a task. It's called unconditional love and companionship.



> (I dislike cute things, if I have never mentioned that before).



Herpderp? Does not compute.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm interested in the term "non-human animal" was used. I'm trying to envision this cleanly, but The Gimp has popped into my head every 3 seconds.




Nodonn said:


> I found out this forum has an ignore function today.
> My life will be a whole lot better from now on.



Not if you want to ignore me.


----------



## Noah (Jan 19, 2011)

Jove said:


> I'm interested in the term "non-human animal" was used. I'm trying to envision this cleanly, but The Gimp has popped into my head every 3 seconds.



I don't even know how I glazed over it.

I am not intrigued. Satisfy my curiosity, lowly mortals! Find me an answer to "totally-human animal pet"!


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 19, 2011)

Noah said:


> I don't even know how I glazed over it.
> 
> I am not intrigued. Satisfy my curiosity, lowly mortals! Find me an answer to "totally-human animal pet"!





I think this will satiate your curiosity. Evidently this very notion (totally-human animal pet) is not without precedent.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 19, 2011)

Jove said:


> Not if you want to ignore me.



There's really only one person I want to ignore and you can probably guess who it is


----------



## Burke (Jan 19, 2011)

Jove said:


> I'm interested in the term "non-human animal" was used. I'm trying to envision this cleanly, but The Gimp has popped into my head every 3 seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ill make sure that one day that horse becomes an official smiley


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 19, 2011)

Jove said:


> Nodonn said:
> 
> 
> > I found out this forum has an ignore function today.
> ...


Or me.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 19, 2011)

So, basically, you support the enslavement of people.


----------



## Koi (Jan 19, 2011)

Okay I'm surprised it took that many posts to catch the 'non-human animal thing.'


Wut.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 19, 2011)

Wait, what?

I thought I was in the Avatar thread, what is this.


----------



## Koi (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm trying to tie the subject of keeping non-human animals into the Avatarverse, but.. I just can't do it.  I got nothin'.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 19, 2011)

DDJ, what is a non-human animal?

Or a human animal, for that matter.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 19, 2011)

Koi said:


> I'm trying to tie the subject of keeping non-human animals into the Avatarverse, but.. I just can't do it.  I got nothin'.



Well, hybrid animals... you know.... hybrid animals!


----------



## Koi (Jan 19, 2011)

You mean the Earth King's personbear?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 19, 2011)

Oh snap! Does Avatar World have the...


----------



## Koi (Jan 19, 2011)

GWOAD.

GWOOOOOOOOAAAAAD.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 19, 2011)

Funny how he doesn't seem so scary in the Avatarverse. I bet Basco could take him.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 19, 2011)

Koi said:


> GWOAD.
> 
> GWOOOOOOOOAAAAAD.



Nuoh my gawd!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 19, 2011)

I dunno whether to laugh at, or feel sorry for DDJ 

But DDJ, seriously, get a sense of humor 

And a heart


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 19, 2011)

AZUUUUUUUUUUUULAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 19, 2011)

Jove said:


> So, basically, you support the enslavement of people.



_How_ did you derive that from my statement?



ReikaiDemon said:


> I dunno whether to laugh at, or feel sorry for DDJ
> 
> But DDJ, seriously, get a sense of humor
> 
> And a heart



I _do_ have a sense of humor, but it is extremely esoteric, so if someone else is unable to comprehend or even detect it, that is not my fault. And I _do_ "have a heart," to use your phrase, but it is reserved for only those people who are emotionality close to me, which excludes any users on this forum and all non-human animals.

Now, to return to the subject of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ I have said before that Zuko is my favorite character in the series, for I admire how he endured numerous terrible ordeals and survived through trials that would have broken and destroyed people with weaker wills. I believe that he was one of the most interesting, multi-faceted, and well-developed characters in the series, and I enjoyed every moment that he was present on the screen. What about everyone else? What are your opinions of Zuko as a character? Did anyone else here find him to be as interesting as I did?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> And if I did have children...
> 
> I would not allow them to have any pets, for I believe that non-human animals should be kept only for food or to perform specific tasks.
> 
> ...As for the "unconditional love and companionship" that you mentioned, I believe that a human will be more than sufficient for providing such companionship.



Suggests to me that you would want your future children to have humans as pets.


And yes, I found Zuko interesting. His struggle was the true basis of the show.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 19, 2011)

Jove said:


> Oh snap! Does Avatar World have the...


lol

Depending on how they would go about it, it could either be extremely funny looking or extremely scary like that Turtle-lion... 

---

Why is it that people think animals are slaves? Don't get an animal if its not going to be part of your family. My dogs are a part of my family, all my animals are. I treat them like family and they treat me the same...somethings wrong if you only want a pet to feed and watch for amusement, they aren't suppose to be like. "Man's best friend" and all...

And especially for dogs and cats (ducks if you ever had one), they love you and want a home to be loved in and taken care of...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 19, 2011)

Jove said:


> Suggests to me that you would want your future children to have humans as pets.



It seems to me that you misinterpreted my statement, so I shall now clear any confusion that there may be on this subject.

When I said that humans are the best companions, I was referring to them being so as romantic partners or ordinary friends, not as pets, meaning that they would be equal to each other. And while it is true that I enjoy having complete control over every aspect of my personal universe, my children would be a completely different matter, as I believe that every person deserves to have their personal freedom and should never be subjugated to the will of another person.


----------



## Wan (Jan 20, 2011)

There sure was confusion, though mostly not on Jove's part...


----------



## Koi (Jan 20, 2011)

DDJ I'M PRETTY SURE IF YOU WERE AN AIR NOMAD, YOU'D HAVE A FLYING BISON WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, _OKAY._


----------



## Noah (Jan 20, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> It seems to me that you misinterpreted my statement, so I shall now clear any confusion that there may be on this subject.
> 
> When I said that humans are the best companions, I was referring to them being so as romantic partners or ordinary friends, not as pets, meaning that they would be equal to each other.



Oooohhhhh....now I get it. This is part of that "gay marriage slippery slope" argument I keep hearing. "If a man can marry a man, what's to stop a man from marrying his dog?" leads directly into DDJ getting a puppy. 




> And while it is true that I enjoy having complete control over every aspect of my personal universe, my children would be a completely different matter, as I believe that every person deserves to have their personal freedom and should never be subjugated to the will of another person.



And then what happens when the kid comes home and says "Yo pops, wut up dawg?"

Will bricks be shat?!


----------



## Koi (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm sure Momo hated hanging out with the Fearsome Foursome and having a guaranteed food supply and new things to explore and do all the time.  You know, because that was _oppressive._


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 20, 2011)

Noah said:


> Oooohhhhh....now I get it. This is part of that "gay marriage slippery slope" argument I keep hearing. "If a man can marry a man, what's to stop a man from marrying his dog?" leads directly into DDJ getting a puppy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or worse, CONTRACTIONS! *GASP*

Seriously DDJ, Momo is a _friend_ 

Do you understand the word _friend_? 

A friend isn't a tool, or a food supply. Aang doesn't eat meat at all. 

Seriously, get a heart dude, and a sense of humor.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 20, 2011)

My ingenious plan to ignore DDJ doesn't work out that well when everyone's quoting him


----------



## Gunners (Jan 20, 2011)

> Seriously, get a heart dude, and a sense of humor.



Sorry


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 20, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Sorry


Quick hide Toto!


----------



## Burke (Jan 20, 2011)

Koi said:


> DDJ I'M PRETTY SURE IF YOU WERE AN AIR NOMAD, YOU'D HAVE A FLYING BISON WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, _OKAY._



Its a joint realtionship, kind of like the Bantha and the Sand people


----------



## Gunners (Jan 20, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> Quick hide Toto!




DDJ friendly.


----------



## arcanecapricorn (Jan 20, 2011)

is there any new update on the legend of korra???? anything anyone????


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 20, 2011)

It was cancelled.

Sorry.


----------



## Noah (Jan 20, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> Quick hide Toto!



Too late


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 20, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> It was cancelled.
> 
> Sorry.



Even if this isn't real, it still sorta broke my heart a little. 

Well I suppose my way, way earlier statement about having some sort of concept art or something by the end of last year was wrong.

So here's a new prediction. 

June/August might get us something... xD


I'm seeing the freakiest advertisement on this forum. A giant is holding a tiny kitten in his hand shaped like a snake. Its scaring me T.T


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 20, 2011)

Noah said:


> Too late


Toto never looked so good. 


			
				Terra Branford said:
			
		

> June/August might get us something...


That's if Nickelodeon is being nice.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 20, 2011)

> I am pleased to see that at least one other user here has an opinion of non-human animals that is similar to my own.


Is this the sense of humour you were telling us about?


----------



## ElementX (Jan 20, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> You have become a victim of _my_ ingenious plan. .



Hey wait a minute....

Wait. a. minute. 

Now I am suspicious. What is your ingenious plan?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 20, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> That's if Nickelodeon is being nice.


And they most likely will not be nice to their biggest fandom (or am I wrong in that assumption?). 

They'll tease us and make us wait 'til October or November


----------



## Noah (Jan 20, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Hey wait a minute....
> 
> Wait. a. minute.
> 
> Now I am suspicious. What is your ingenious plan?



To give us all aneurysms. I can certainly feel one developing after that last post.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 20, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> And they most likely will not be nice to their biggest fandom (or am I wrong in that assumption?).
> 
> They'll tease us and make us wait 'til October or November



That's been the projected date since the beginning. It's all logical and predictably mappable:

Late-Spring - Announcement of Avatar-related business at CC.

Comicon 2011 - Panel with Mike and Bryan. Premiere date announced, as well as a presentation involving character designs, backgrounds, and some clips.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 20, 2011)

It has?

All I ever read/heard was that it would be released later this year... 

I missed a lot it seems lol


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 20, 2011)

Fall 2011. I'm presumed that meant either October or early November.

With October, they could run 12 straight and finish in December.

But perhaps they'll split it up; half in Fall and half in Spring.

Or maybe they actually will get picked up for additional episodes.


Whatever happens, I can guarantee one thing: I won't even acknowledge the Korra thread, and I find it hilarious that dude bumped it because we weren't talking about Avatar enough in this thread.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 20, 2011)

Ah, as long as they don't pull a switch and change the date, then I suppose I can't wait a bit longer. But its lame to not have any other information for the show this far in...

Why won't you want to acknowledge the Korra thread? I'm just curious xD


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 20, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> And they most likely will not be nice to their biggest fandom (or am I wrong in that assumption?).


We don't even begin to hold a candle against Spongebob.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 20, 2011)

Jove said:


> Whatever happens, I can guarantee one thing: I won't even acknowledge the Korra thread, and I find it hilarious that dude bumped it because we weren't talking about Avatar enough in this thread.



W-Wow.

I bumped the thread because this one is about Book Three: Fire, and talking about a completely different show in here would be irrelevant, and technical spam, so I posted my Korra relevant post in the, you guessed it: Korra thread.

I'm curious as to your ignoring of the thread as well.


----------



## Shade (Jan 20, 2011)

Yeah, I was gonna say shows like Fairly Oddparents and iiCarly have huge fanbases in the 6-12 range, who primarily make up the merch buying force. Nick will probably want to capitalize on that a lot more than broke-ass teenagers.

And Jove, why not just get rid of the other thread?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 20, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> We don't even begin to hold a candle against Spongebob.



Really?

Dang it! We need the Spongebob fans to turn into Avatar fans as wel, so it boosts our numbers.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 20, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I bumped the thread because this one is about Book Three: Fire, and talking about a completely different show in here would be irrelevant, and technical spam, so I posted my Korra relevant post in the, you guessed it: Korra thread.


Not quite. The thread was renamed because of the '11 almighty splitting of threads. It just worked out that the sections of the thread could be made into allusions of the three seasons.

However, the series of threads is treated as a general thread for the Avatar series, including the movie for a while.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 20, 2011)

Stunna said:


> W-Wow.
> 
> I bumped the thread because this one is about Book Three: Fire, and talking about a completely different show in here would be irrelevant, and technical spam, so I posted my Korra relevant post in the, you guessed it: Korra thread.
> 
> I'm curious as to your ignoring of the thread as well.




I'm not. I was just joking. Both threads are fine.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 20, 2011)

Just making sure I wasn't being called out for trying to do the right thing

>__>

Sorry.


----------



## Burke (Jan 20, 2011)

Stunna said:


> W-Wow.
> 
> I bumped the thread because this one is about Book Three: Fire, and talking about a completely different show in here would be irrelevant, and technical spam, so I posted my Korra relevant post in the, you guessed it: Korra thread.
> 
> I'm curious as to your ignoring of the thread as well.



Damn, this new thing is causing so much confusion...
What are we going to do about this jove?
Rename the thread to make it easily understandable?
Delete the korra thread?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 20, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Is this the sense of humour you were telling us about?



Actually, I was completely serious with that statement, but if you wish to interpret it in such a manner, I will not tell you that you are wrong.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 22, 2011)

No no no, THIS is a sense of humor.


			
				Kenneth said:
			
		

> DemonDragonJ said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose that that forest is a popular location for amorous couples who are seeking a place to make love in private and without interruption.
> ...


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 22, 2011)

Why is it that every time I enter the thread there is somethin' always goin' on in here? lol

Can't we talk avatar again? :3


----------



## Koi (Jan 22, 2011)

I would definitely not want to have sex in the woods.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 22, 2011)

Who would? 

You could get poked and bitten! And poison oak could get on ya!


----------



## Mider T (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 22, 2011)

Don't worry Mider, I think I can decipher what's been going. 


There is talk of sex in forests, what humor is and on the last page Jove, Stunna and I were discussing the Avatar Korra thread and the fandom level of Avatar being less than Spongebob's fandom.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 22, 2011)

You know what, Stunna was right. Talk about Avatar, godammit.


Best Locations, go!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 22, 2011)

Jove said:


> You know what, Stunna was right. Talk about Avatar, godammit.
> 
> 
> Best Locations, go!


The Library


----------



## Morpha (Jan 22, 2011)

Zuko's pants Ba Sing Se


----------



## Burke (Jan 22, 2011)

Morpha said:


> Zuko's pants Ba Sing Se



Who are you!? 



Jove said:


> You know what, Stunna was right. Talk about Avatar, godammit.
> 
> 
> Best Locations, go!



Um um the Western Air Temple.

Im a sucker for grand architecture.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 22, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Who are you!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WHAT. YOU DENY WAN SHI TONG'S GLORIOUS BUTTRESSES!?


----------



## Koi (Jan 22, 2011)

Jove said:


> You know what, Stunna was right. Talk about Avatar, godammit.
> 
> 
> Best Locations, go!



Wait, for sex, or?


I personally adore the architecture in Ozai's throne room because it combines Asian and Egyptian styles, which are two of my favorites.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jan 22, 2011)

Ba Sing Se. Especially cause of its cool name.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 22, 2011)

BUT BUT BUT, BUTTRESSES!


----------



## Noah (Jan 22, 2011)

Secret tunnel! Secret tunnel! Through the mountain! SECRET SECRET SECRET SECRET TUNNELLLLLLLL!!!

...yeah.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 22, 2011)

Ba Sing Se. Favorite location in the entire show. And then the whole Earth Kingdom :33

And then finally, the Southern Air Temple (if that's the one hanging upside down).


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 22, 2011)

Despite the epic beauty of Wan Shi Tong's glorious buttresses, I really liked Ba Sing Se. 



Noah said:


> Secret tunnel! Secret tunnel! Through the mountain! SECRET SECRET SECRET SECRET TUNNELLLLLLLL!!!
> 
> ...yeah.




And DIE                   .


----------



## Mider T (Jan 23, 2011)

Jove said:


> You know what, Stunna was right. Talk about Avatar, godammit.
> 
> 
> Best Locations, go!



Piandao's countryside vs. Sokka's interpretation for it.  Who will be the victor?


----------



## Koi (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm going with 'the edit of that scene that exists with him painting a Wang Fire beard and muscles on the paper.'  Because when Wang Fire wins, _we all win._


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 23, 2011)

I always thought Full Moon Bay was a beautiful spot that we never got to fully experience.


----------



## Burke (Jan 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Ba Sing Se. Favorite location in the entire show. And then the whole Earth Kingdom :33
> 
> And then finally, the Southern Air Temple (if that's the one hanging upside down).



Thats the western n_n


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 23, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Thats the western n_n



Doh! That would probably explain why they could got to the temple 

I haven't watch the episodes around _that_ part in a long time....


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 23, 2011)

You know, I'm almost positive that I did a top 5 locations... but I'll do one:


*Top 5 Locations in Avatar*

Ba Sing Se, in its entirety, not eligible.




*5. Full Moon Bay* _from The Serpent's Pass_




*4. Wulong Forest* _from Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno and Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Aang the Avatar_




*3. Omashu* _from The King of Omashu and Return to Omashu_




*2. The Northern Water Tribe* _from the Siege of the North Trilogy_




*1. Old Ba Sing Se (the Catacombs)* _from The Crossroads of Destiny_.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 23, 2011)

And now we are all travel agents


----------



## EnterTheTao (Jan 23, 2011)

Best location for me was the grave Iroh made, but of course I'm just nostalgic for that moment.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 23, 2011)

Wow... that one's specific. Maybe I could package it as a Historical Walking Tour Trip. 1 day, 2 Nights, accommodations in Outer Ba Sing Se. Meals not included. Trip to Zoo optional.


----------



## Koi (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm assuming Joo Dee will be our walking tour guide?  (Except in my head I'm thinking of her being like the tour guide at the Alamo, in Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, post-Ozai.)


----------



## EnterTheTao (Jan 23, 2011)

The Ba Sing Se Zoo.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> I'm assuming Joo Dee will be our walking tour guide?  (Except in my head I'm thinking of her being like the tour guide at the Alamo, in Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, post-Ozai.)




No way. Definitely Long Feng. That sultry voice deserves better than a dimly lit, damp jail cell.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 24, 2011)

Jove said:


> No way. Definitely Long Feng. That sultry voice deserves better than a dimly lit, damp jail cell.


That would be funny if he was half-hearted about it 

When they get to Ba Sing Se, he'll mutter things like "I used to run this place"


----------



## Koi (Jan 24, 2011)

Oh my god, you're so right.  That tour would be about 90% women _all the time_.


----------



## Noah (Jan 24, 2011)

Jove somehow failed at his list.

WHERE IS SECRET TUNNEL?!


----------



## Koi (Jan 24, 2011)

Jove is just waiting to Chongroll us all.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 24, 2011)

My list is the top 5. Secret Tunnel isn't even in the Top 10.


----------



## Koi (Jan 24, 2011)

Secret Tunnel is in a class all its own.


----------



## Noah (Jan 24, 2011)

A list without Secret Tunnel tells me there's a closet Zutara fan making it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 24, 2011)

Noah said:


> Jove somehow failed at his list.
> 
> WHERE IS SECRET TUNNEL?!


EXACTLY, Where is the Secret Tunnel?

That's why it's called the Secret Tunnel.

Because, you know. It's a tunnel...

....

Oh, and it's secret.


----------



## Burke (Jan 24, 2011)

Jove said:


> My list is the top 5. Secret Tunnel isn't even in the Top 10.



please tell me the western air temple is in the top ten atleast!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 25, 2011)

In _The Firebending Masters,_ Zuko learned a new form of firebending, which was actually the original form of firebending; in which fire is perceived as a physical manifestation of pure life force and passion, not merely anger and rage, which was the form that was familiar to most people in the Fire Nation. I was expecting other firebenders to comment on Zuko's different form of firebending, or that it would at least appear to be different from his original style, but no one ever commented on it, nor did it appear to be any different from his original style, apart from him apparently having better control and skill in general. What does everyone else say about that?

And on the subject of locations, I am not entirely certain where my favorite location would be in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender._ The poles where the Water Tribes live are too cold for my liking, and such cities as Omashu, Ba Sing Se, or the Fire Nation's royal city are too large and too strictly governed for me to be comfortable in them. Perhaps one of the smaller villages in either the Fire Nation or the Earth Kingdom would be very nice and peaceful places in which I could live and go about my daily activities.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 25, 2011)

It's the absolute base form of Firebending, knowing it just allows them to understand Firebending better


----------



## Noah (Jan 25, 2011)

Pretty much that. At this point, all it really does is help Zuko and Aang to understand the nature behind firebending, and firebending itself. Maybe in time Zuko will learn epic rainbow flames, but at this point it's just an emotional and spiritual attachment to the art, me thinks.


----------



## ElementX (Jan 25, 2011)

Actually Zuko's form did look different to me after he met the Masters. He was able to deflect fire blasts in a way he never showed in the other seasons.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 25, 2011)

The idea is not where you would want to live, DDJ. 


*Latter Half of the Top 10 Locations in Avatar*




*10. The Bei Fong Estate* _from The Blind Bandit_




*09. Black Cliffs* _from Nightmares and Daydreams and The Day of Black Sun_




*08. The Western Air Temple* _in The Western Air Temple through The Southern Raiders_



*07. Piandao's House* _from Sokka's Master_




*6. The Eastern Air Temple* _in Appa's Lost Days and The Guru_



I'm a sucker for Bays and inlets, so sue me.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 25, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> It's the absolute base form of Firebending, knowing it just allows them to understand Firebending better





Noah said:


> Pretty much that. At this point, all it really does is help Zuko and Aang to understand the nature behind firebending, and firebending itself. Maybe in time Zuko will learn epic rainbow flames, but at this point it's just an emotional and spiritual attachment to the art, me thinks.





ElementX said:


> Actually Zuko's form did look different to me after he met the Masters. He was able to deflect fire blasts in a way he never showed in the other seasons.



Yes, that is very good, and it does make sense, but I still am wondering why no other firebender commented on how Zuko's firebending was different; surely, it must have _felt_ different, if he was now viewing fire as an expression of life and all emotions, not merely anger and hatred.



Jove said:


> The idea is not where you would want to live, DDJ.



In that case, what traits qualify a location to be one of the "Top Ten Locations in _Avatar?"_ Are you simply choosing your own personal top ten favorites, or are these locations the top ten favorites of the cretors of the series?


----------



## Gunners (Jan 25, 2011)

> Yes, that is very good, and it does make sense, but I still am wondering why no other firebender commented on how Zuko's firebending was different; surely, it must have felt different, if he was now viewing fire as an expression of life and all emotions, not merely anger and hatred.


Why would they comment on it? He has been left to his own devices for some years, if you knew him you'd expect some things to be different. If you didn't know him personally his overall skill level not his style would stand out.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 25, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In that case, what traits qualify a location to be one of the "Top Ten Locations in _Avatar?"_ Are you simply choosing your own personal top ten favorites, or are these locations the top ten favorites of the cretors of the series?



The best settings on the show. The best designs. 

And no, my Top 10 lists are not official, but they are the Top 10 regardless.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 25, 2011)

Watched _The Blue Spirit_ last night - one of my favorite episodes.  

The animation is really great - the colors seem so soft.  But in discussing favorite locations, the whole area in the mountains (the ruins of Taku) just looks so serene.  And I really loved the canvas covered greenhouse the old lady had.  

Lol Ang: you're crazy aren't you?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 25, 2011)

My favorite is Ember Island, more specifically the Beach.


----------



## Burke (Jan 25, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> My favorite is Ember Island, more specifically the Beach.



Great location.
Great episode.
Great choice!

jove


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 25, 2011)

How many people personally know Zuko anyways? 

Besides, the only other time Zuko really let it out was during the comet, in which case, anyone else besides the Gaang and the White Lotus would chalk up his increase in power to the comet.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 25, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Why would they comment on it? He has been left to his own devices for some years, if you knew him you'd expect some things to be different. If you didn't know him personally his overall skill level not his style would stand out.





ReikaiDemon said:


> How many people personally know Zuko anyways?
> 
> Besides, the only other time Zuko really let it out was during the comet, in which case, anyone else besides the Gaang and the White Lotus would chalk up his increase in power to the comet.



Yes, that does make sense regarding his increase in skill, but what about the change in his emotion when firebending? Is the situation the same, there, as well, that no one knew him well enough to notice the change in his emotions?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 25, 2011)

You're a master of splitting hairs


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 25, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You're a master of splitting hairs



Thank you very much.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah, so anyway, one of the things I noticed when researching locations is that there's such a distinctness to each of the Air Temples. Different architecture, different purposes...


To rank them:

4. Northern Air Temple

3. Southern Air Temple

2. Western Air Temple

1. Eastern Air Temple


We pretty much saw flashbacks of all four, and the reason I put the Eastern the highest is because of the brilliant open air forums throughout, probably because it seemed to serve as a nursery for Sky Bison.

Western Air Temple seemed to revel is it's lavish and ostentatious design. 

Southern Air Temple's design has been derided by Konietzko as underdeveloped, but I found it's presentation to be perhaps the most congruous with air bender philosophy. It's sober and unordained, but there's a subtle beauty and playfulness to it, as well.

Northern Air Temple was probably the least developed, for plot reasons.


----------



## Burke (Jan 26, 2011)

I figured that you all would be interested, but Grey Delisle, Dante Basco and Mark Hamill will all soon be main characters in a new cartoon show called zevo-3. From what i know so far, its going to be about some kids fighting villains. Oh and guess whose the villan. 

Now i have long since lost hope for modern cartoons, but i dont think ill ever lose hope in grey dante or especially the mastermind mark hamill

@Jove doesnt ostentacious mean something along the lines of "commands attention to itself", but i thought that the W.A.T. was designed in that way in order to keep itself rather hidden


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 26, 2011)

Nøøps said:


> I figured that you all would be interested, but Grey Delisle, Dante Basco and Mark Hamill will all soon be main characters in a new cartoon show called zevo-3. From what i know so far, its going to be about some kids fighting villains. Oh and guess whose the villan.



I shall presume that Mark Hamill will be voicing the villainous character, but I thought that he was retiring from voice acting? I heard that after the newest _Batman_ video game, he would no longer be voicing the Joker, which caused me to presume that he was retiring from voice acting altogether, but if that is not true, then why is he no longer performing the Joker? Has he grown tired of playing the Joker?

As for the series itself, it sounds vaguely interesting, but I cannot follow any new television series, either Japanese or western, at this moment, especially not now that I am returning to school.

By the way, and I know that you will likely be annoyed by me saying this, you said "whose,' which is grammatically incorrect; the proper word in that sentence would be "who's," a contraction of "who is."


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I shall presume that Mark Hamill will be voicing the villainous character, but I thought that he was retiring from voice acting? I heard that after the newest _Batman_ video game, he would no longer be voicing the Joker, which caused me to presume that he was retiring from voice acting altogether, but if that is not true, then why is he no longer performing the Joker? Has he grown tired of playing the Joker?
> 
> As for the series itself, it sounds vaguely interesting, but I cannot follow any new television series, either Japanese or western, at this moment, especially not now that I am returning to school.
> 
> *By the way, and I know that you will likely be annoyed by me saying this, you said "whose,' which is grammatically incorrect; the proper word in that sentence would be "who's" a contraction of "who is."*



Oh wow, just when I think you couldn't be more of a tool 

Why start now? There have been scads of grammatically incorrect posts here. 

As for Hammil's retirement from the Joker, it's probably because since his voice is aging, he feels like he might not do him justice in the future. I've played Arkham Asylum (Who hasn't?), and his Joker isn't quite as energetic, and didn't hit as high of notes as his previous renditions. 

Luckily, the next game would justify this more, with Joker recuperating from Titan.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 26, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Oh wow, just when I think you couldn't be more of a tool
> 
> Why start now? There have been scads of grammatically incorrect posts here.
> 
> ...



Your explanation of Mark Hamill's voice makes sense, as it is very similar to what I myself was thinking on that subject. As for your other statement, I know that there are other grammatically incorrect posts in both this thread and the entire forum, and I have learned to ignore most of them, but that was a particularly grievous error, and I wished to inform Nøøps of it. Why do you care about when I point out grammatical errors in other user's posts, when such actions do not involve you?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 26, 2011)

As if you don't know, it's often rude, sometimes even offensive to correct someone in front of others 

And annoying 

And condescending 

It's hardly a grievous error, the world hasn't stopped turning, and planes are still up in the air.

And Noops is my friend, even if he is Noops .


----------



## Burke (Jan 26, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> As if you don't know, it's often rude, sometimes even offensive to correct someone in front of others
> 
> And annoying
> 
> ...



And Reikai is my friend even if he's asian. 

Before i go, 
Who's sock is this!


----------



## Koi (Jan 26, 2011)

Can this be the Avatar thread, and not the DDJ-antagonizing thread?

Please?


----------



## Burke (Jan 26, 2011)

Koi said:


> Can this be the Avatar thread, and not the DDJ-antagonizing thread?
> 
> Please?



How about the Koi glomping thread.
Can we be the Koi glomping thread?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 26, 2011)

N??ps said:


> How about the Koi glomping thread.
> Can we be the Koi glomping thread?


Only if you're glomping Koizilla.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 27, 2011)

Koi said:


> Can this be the Avatar thread, and not the DDJ-antagonizing thread?
> 
> Please?



Yes, I thank you for your kind words, Koi.

I have been wondering something: apart from Hama, there were no waterbenders who were evil or villainous, at least not in the main storyline (there was a young man named Kinto in the trading card game, but that is not considered to be canonical). And I also noticed that the ruler of the Fire Nation is known as the Fire Lord or Fire Lady, and that the ruler of Ba Sing Se is the Earth King, but the chiefs of the water tribes do not seem to have a special title for themselves. Therefore, if the chief of one of the Water Tribes were a waterbender who used ice exclusively, as opposed to water in its liquid state, and called themselves the Ice Lord, would they seem to be imitating the Fire Lord from the Fire Nation? I imagine so, but I would very much like to see more waterbenders use ice in addition to water in its liquid state.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 27, 2011)

No, they wouldn't. The titles are political. It's in the names.

The Earth _Kingdom_, a confederated group of city-states, ruled by a overriding monarch. In this case, the king is the epicenter of political power and culture. And so he takes the title king.


The Fire _Nation_, being a nation-state ruled by an absolute monarchy. Deeming itself a "nation" is significant; it shows the precedence of land. The potentate, the king, was the Highest Lord, with his vast demesne and control of nobility. The Fire Lord title signifies that the entire Fire Nation is, inherently, his or her sovereign land.

Even apart from that interpretation, canon dictates that the FN was once rules by a council of Fire Sages, with the head Sage being the Fire Lord. So there is a Theocratic element to it.


The Water _Tribe_ are ruled by chieftains. Totally different set of social and cultural commitments and responsibilities, not to mention a society that functions entirely different than the city-state/nation-state. He's not a lord, or a king. The Northern Water Tribe _might_ evolve into something close enough to foment an "Ice Lord," or whatever you want to call it. I doubt it would ever happen in the South.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 27, 2011)

Jove said:


> I doubt it would ever happen in the South.


O ye of little faith.
The South will rise again!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 27, 2011)

Jove said:


> No, they wouldn't. The titles are political. It's in the names.
> 
> The Earth _Kingdom_, a confederated group of city-states, ruled by a overriding monarch. In this case, the king is the epicenter of political power and culture. And so he takes the title king.
> 
> ...



Yes, that does make sense, and I like those differences between the factions, for those differences give them greater variety and help the world to feel more developed and interesting. In that case, I wish to rephrase my question: would anyone here like to see a waterbender character who associates themselves with such terms as "ice," "cold," "frigid," who uses ice more often than liquid water as a weapon, and who shows no emotions at all? I certainly would.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 27, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> O ye of little faith.
> The South will rise again!



**Supports your demodship**


An ice-heavy waterbender would be interesting. It would make me go through the whole debate of it all over again though. Putting aside the "they just can" aspect of it, it's a pretty strange bit of mythology that Waterbenders can control heat and cold to make steam or ice.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jan 27, 2011)

Firebending is internal because you don't find fire lying around lolz. The idea is that your chi can ignite the oxygen in the air. Waterbending looks external because of having sources of water, but it could be considered internal as well because of ice bending. If you can control a mass of water with chi than if you control the speed the water is going you can either create steam or ice, ice seems to be easier.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 27, 2011)

Wuzzman said:


> Firebending is internal because you don't find fire lying around lolz. The idea is that your chi can ignite the oxygen in the air.



Well, that's the first I've heard that concept.


I never truly understood how a Waterbender's breath turned water into ice.


----------



## Koi (Jan 27, 2011)

It's probably just a Rule of Cool thing.  Like how SSBM can firebend with his head, and Bumi with his eyebrow.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 27, 2011)

Well, if we're going by Chinese metaphysical concepts, if Bending is controlling yin and yang, then it may be possible to explain in a less contrived scientific way.

One of the things about yin and yang, is that when one wanes, other other is stronger. Waterbending is definitely a yin style, but that doesn't mean yang is completely absent in it, yin and yang can never be separated, much like a magnet will always have poles, no matter how much you split it. 

So while Waterbending is predominantly a Yin style, control of yang is still necessary to manipulate yin, either directly, or through fluctuating yin. 

So I think the state changing is creating an imbalance of yin and yang, it seems that benders are able to control both, seeing as Iroh told Zuko, that to create lightning, you would need to forcibly cause an unnatural rend between yin and yang.

So to create ice, you have to manipulate yin to be stronger than yang, and vice versa for steam. A waterbender could just act on yin to make it work, or both.

Oh, and as an example how inseparable yin and yang are, consider ice. It's cold, yet it's hard and sharp, qualities yang has. 

I'm not sure if I remember right, but do waterbenders just control the change of states, and they don't actually manipulate ice and steam? It's like lightning bending, they can create and direct it, but not bend it.

An ice bender sounds like they would be like an earthbender, except with the cool refreshing bite of ice.


----------



## Koi (Jan 27, 2011)

If I could bend ice, I would always do so with a witty, ice-related pun to go along with it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 27, 2011)

Koi said:


> If I could bend ice, I would always do so with a witty, ice-related pun to go along with it.


What, no overly long monologue of redundancy?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 27, 2011)

Yeah, they can control ice and steam. Recall Katara sending the ice sheets at Pakku during their fight.

That would be hilarious if someone had a sort of defect and could only bend ice. It would be like firebenders needed a source of fire to bend. Totally ridiculous!


----------



## Burke (Jan 27, 2011)

Koi said:


> If I could bend ice, I would always do so with a witty, ice-related pun to go along with it.



"ICE to meet you!"
HWAH!


----------



## Noah (Jan 27, 2011)

"Chill out."
"You need to cool down."
"You're treading on thin ice."
"Ice to meet....dammit.


I would run around like I was in Metal Gear. When I snuck up on somone, I'd fingerbang them and yell "Freeze!" and then, ya know, freeze them. And then I'd be all like "I'm one cool cat."


----------



## ElementX (Jan 27, 2011)

Just looked up Zevo-3. It's been airing for awhile. It's about three teens who are contaminated by radiation or something and now they have superpowers. The main dude can change his body into metal, the girl has super strong hair (no really), and get this... Dante Basco's character has _Ice Powers_. 

Anyway it's actually just a spin off of the Skechers sneaker commercials. So yeah. Go advertising.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 27, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Just looked up Zevo-3. It's been airing for awhile. It's about three teens who are contaminated by radiation or something and now they have superpowers. The main dude can change his body into metal, the girl has super strong hair (no really), and get this... Dante Basco's character has _Ice Powers_.
> 
> Anyway it's actually just a spin off of the Skechers sneaker commercials. So yeah. Go advertising.


Oh yeah, I heard about that a while ago, Hammil was Dr. Stankfoot, when we were discussing what his current and past roles are.


----------



## Burke (Jan 27, 2011)

Oh... sorry i didnt know, well, atleast my disdain for new cartoons holds firm


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 27, 2011)

Noah said:


> "Chill out."
> "You need to cool down."
> "You're treading on thin ice."
> "Ice to meet....dammit.
> ...



When I spoke of wishing to see a character who was "cold" and emotionless, I was in no way referring to a character who would make ridiculous puns that involved ice or cold temperatures. I was referring to a character such as Sesshomaru, Itachi Uchiha, Byakuya Kuchiki, Zechs Marquise, or Seto Kaiba, all of whom are extremely stern and cold in personality, have no sense of humor, and almost never display any emotions at all. Very few characters in _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ if any, were like that, so I would like to see a stern and emotionless character in _The Legend of Korra,_ even if such a character is only a minor character.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 27, 2011)

Those guys are booooring 

And Kaiba was much better in his original characterization than that hogwash anime adaptation.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 27, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Those guys are booooring
> 
> And Kaiba was much better in his original characterization than that hogwash anime adaptation.



Perhaps they are boring to you, and I respect your opinion of them, but they are among my favorite characters from each of their respective series, Reikai Demon. Please allow each user of forum thread to have their own favorite characters, and we shall dot eh same for you.

And what is this "hogwash anime adaptation" to which you are referring? To the best of my knowledge, the _Yu-Gi-Oh_ television series was adapted faithfully from the original manga, with only minor differences in certain instances. I was not aware of Kaiba's personality being very different between the manga and the anime.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 27, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Perhaps they are boring to you, and I respect your opinion of them, but they are among my favorite characters from each of their respective series, Reikai Demon. Please allow each user of forum thread to have their own favorite characters, and we shall dot eh same for you.
> 
> And what is this "hogwash anime adaptation" to which you are referring? To the best of my knowledge, the _Yu-Gi-Oh_ television series *was adapted faithfully from the original manga*, with* only minor differences* in certain instances. *I was not aware of Kaiba's personality being very different between the manga and the anime.*



Massive contradiction
 

You are no longer allowed to form an opinion on that series anymore.


----------



## Noah (Jan 27, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Those guys are booooring .



Said it for me.

Take any 'cold and calculating' character and give them Arnold Mr. Freeze's personality. Character improvement x one majirbpltgillzillion.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 27, 2011)

Noah said:


> Said it for me.
> 
> Take any 'cold and calculating' character and give them Arnold Mr. Freeze's personality. Character improvement x one majirbpltgillzillion.


Actually, I think it's inaccurate to say any of those guys had personality to begin with.

...

Why am I not surprised that DDJ likes them?...

They're not stern and cold, they're just zombies.

Also, ironically enough, BTAS Mr. Freeze was stern and cold,_claimed_ to be emotionless, but was actually interesting...

As for Kaiba, hell, even Yugioh Abridged was more faithful to Kaiba than the anime was.

...

BTAS Freeze also used puns, but strangely, it was menacing <.<

Well, more poetic than punny.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 27, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Massive contradiction
> 
> 
> You are no longer allowed to form an opinion on that series anymore.



Rather than insult me, would it not be far more polite and productive to enlighten me to the differences between the manga and anime of that franchise, so that I will have better knowledge in the future?



ReikaiDemon said:


> They're not stern and cold, they're just zombies.
> 
> Also, ironically enough, BTAS Mr. Freeze was stern and cold,_claimed_ to be emotionless, but was actually interesting...
> 
> As for Kaiba, hell, even Yugioh Abridged was more faithful to Kaiba than the anime was.



If you want zombies, watch _Night of the Living Dead_ or _Resident Evil:_ the creatures in those movies are zombies. The characters whom I mentioned did have personalities, but they simply did not display them easily or often.

And how was Mr. Freeze "more interesting" than the characters whom I mentioned, or _"Yu-Gi-Oh Abridged_ Kaiba" "more faithful" to the manga Kaiba? Please provide a detailed explanation for both examples.



Noah said:


> Said it for me.
> 
> Take any 'cold and calculating' character and give them Arnold Mr. Freeze's personality. Character improvement x one majirbpltgillzillion.



I must disagree with you on that subject, for I believe that Arnold Schwarzenegger's portrayal of Mr. Freeze was a terrible mockery of the character, and I do not believe that giving his personality to any other fictional character would improve the other character in any way.


----------



## Noah (Jan 27, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Actually, I think it's inaccurate to say any of those guys had personality to begin with.



But Itachi was a good guy ALL ALONG!





> Also, ironically enough, BTAS Mr. Freeze was stern and cold,_claimed_ to be emotionless, but was actually interesting...
> 
> As for Kaiba, hell, even Yugioh Abridged was more faithful to Kaiba than the anime was.
> 
> ...



BTAS is like the Jesus of western, non-Avatar animation. They managed to take a boring Batman villain (Freeze) and turn him into something amazing. Actually....they did that with pretty much everyone. Even Harley Quinn, an animated original character, was so epic that she had to be made comic canon.

The episode of Batman Beyond with Mr. Freeze may be the single best episode of that show. Only 'Epilogue' can come close to that.




Literal Jim said:


> I must disagree with you on that subject, for I believe that Arnold Schwarzenegger's portrayal of Mr. Freeze was a terrible mockery of the character, and I do not believe that giving his personality to any other fictional character would improve the other character in any way.



Right. I forgot. Having a comic relief character in anything is like taking a shit on an apple pie your grandmother made for you.

That whole thing was a mockery. That's why Arnold made it epic.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 28, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Rather than insult me, would it not be far more polite and productive to enlighten me to the differences between the manga and anime of that franchise, so that I will have better knowledge in the future?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: _Boring wall of anti-ddj text_ 




Seriously, you're no fun, can't you take a joke without being a wet blanket?

I'll be frank, you're annoying and dull. When I say zombies, most would know what I'm talking about, slow shambling creatures with no opinion or motivation. Metaphorically, those characters you like are like zombies, slow shambling creatures with no real motivation. Sure, it's not verbatim, but it's pretty fitting as a joke or metaphor. The problem is that it seems you don't take it as a analogy, but as it is literally said.

There is a reason why those characters act like that. To serve merely as a completely unrelateable, and unsympathetic antagonistic force. To be cold is to show disdain, or emotional distance from a person or thing. Not because one is calm, but because one has absolutely no moral or personal heed towards that thing. Almost like how one can pay no mind or conscience towards _insects_ being trod upon. 

It can either be out of disgust, or out of a personal sense of superiority that is so high, even paying that target with attention and disrespect is a waste of time. 

Stern could be a good thing, but they exhibit the negative, selfish, and disrespectful aspects of it. I don't know why you want to look up to cartoon characters as _role models for living life_, but these guys? They're calm because they don't want to pay ANYONE respect, or else it would be a waste of energy to pay anyone mind, because they believe they're all beneath them. This doesn't even mean they are strong, or confident, or formed any personality. They act as a complete tool to a cause. Having a personality is not befitting of a tool. 

Sesshomaru= fervent upholding of his father's name and lineage, complete racist, only keeps Rin safe because it may have something to do with using his sword. 

Itachi= complete commitment to revenge, meant more to him than any sense of morality, too weak and stupid to oppose the massacre of his clan so as to keep appearances up, just for the sake of revenge to AVENGE his clan. Yeah, think about that, to avenge the Uchiha name, he DESECRATES it, and allows his brother to suffer because it finally caught up to him. And then it destroys him, yeah, real good choice for a role model there. 

Kuchiki Byakuya, committed to Seireitei justice so much, he has no sense of justice himself, and ends up almost succeeding in upholding unjust decisions from those who impersonated the law there. 

They all seem contradictory to what you claim to be, respectful, calm, intelligent. Yet, they seem to fit you how you really are, or at least how we see you. How ironic. 

They reason why you don't see characters like this in Avatar, save for Combustion Man, is because they aren't cheap writers, it's lazy to write an emotionless, devoid of personality character. It takes no effort to write one, and it's not believable. It's also cliche, those guys are a dime a dozen, not unique, not relateable, and asking for such ridiculous kinds of villains is asking them to be bad writers.

Mr. Freeze was sympathetic, that's what made him interesting. Many felt he was justified in taking out revenge on Boyle. And he didn't do it out of some belief he could bring his wife back, he did it because he thought his wife was dead, he was mutated, and has nothing else to live or love for, but revenge. He was human, even though out of most of the Batman villains, he was biologically, the most removed from being human. The pain he felt was believable.

As for Kaiba, it's true that you shouldn't form an opinion on the manga from the anime that was adapted from it. Kaiba was a cruel, vindictive bastard, who traumatized his little brother for the lulz. He was greedy, and vengeful. He was a minor villain who had a chance at redemption. Popularity of the card game recursively made what was so far an awesome manga, into an advertising gimmick.

As for Arnold's Mr Freeze, it's a joke, and another jab at those personality lacking characters. Any sort of personality would be better than being an emotional equivalent of a brick.

There, now you ruined the jokes for taking them literally, and making me explain them, and made me type a long boring response to you, because you won't demand anything less than a simple response that could get the same point across just as well  

Just like that previous statement, aha, meta .






> BTAS is like the Jesus of western, non-Avatar animation. They managed to  take a boring Batman villain (Freeze) and turn him into something  amazing. Actually....they did that with pretty much everyone. Even  Harley Quinn, an animated original character, was so epic that she had  to be made comic canon.
> 
> The episode of Batman Beyond with Mr. Freeze may be the single best  episode of that show. Only 'Epilogue' can come close to that.



QFT


----------



## Koi (Jan 28, 2011)

SO ANYWAY.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jan 28, 2011)

ReikaiDemon nail to head good sir.


----------



## Koi (Jan 28, 2011)

You mean.. hammer to head of nail?


----------



## Wuzzman (Jan 28, 2011)

Koi said:


> You mean.. hammer to head of nail?



nail to head sounds cooler.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 28, 2011)

It never gets old for me

Also Koi, I can only imagine how ansy the fanbase is getting at Ms. Broadway Shoulders.


----------



## Ryuji Yamazaki (Jan 28, 2011)

The Ultimate Avatar:The Last Airbender Showdown of Ultimate Destiny


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 28, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Very few characters in _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ if any, were like that, so I would like to see a stern and emotionless character in _The Legend of Korra,_ even if such a character is only a minor character.


 Ozai, June, Sparky Sparky Boom Man Combustion Man, and Kyoshi weren't enough.


----------



## Koi (Jan 28, 2011)

Does Joo Dee count as emotionless?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 28, 2011)

Koi said:


> Does Joo Dee count as emotionless?


Which one? 

That reminds me, the Dai Li were fairly emotionless.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 28, 2011)

Let's not forget frigid Mai.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 28, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> Let's not forget frigid Mai.


I was going to mention her as many aren't deep enough to see the nuances of emotion.  But then I decided I wouldn't tarnish her image like that.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 28, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> I was going to mention her *as many aren't deep enough to see the nuances of emotion*.  But then I decided I wouldn't tarnish her image like that.



*gets smacked across face* 

Ouch! 

 DN's keen on Mai...



She's actually a great character - she provided good contrast between Tai Lee, and Azula as well.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 28, 2011)

This character, that character...

Guys: Long Feng.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 28, 2011)

Long Feng  

There can be only one Long Feng...


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 28, 2011)

Jove said:


> Guys: Long Feng.


 He always seemed angry to me, never really emotionless.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 28, 2011)

Temperament analysis of Avatar


----------



## Koi (Jan 28, 2011)

Yeah, Long Feng was ruthless and conniving.  I don't know if he was stony enough to warrant 'emotionless.'  He definitely showed hubris and rage.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 28, 2011)

No. 

Long Feng.


----------



## Koi (Jan 28, 2011)

..I hear Clancy Brown is actually a really nice guy.


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 28, 2011)

Koi said:


> ..I hear Clancy Brown is actually a really nice guy.



He can't be - he played...*The Kurgan*.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 28, 2011)

I believe I'd put Clancy Brown...


Oh hell, I'll rank them.


*Top 5 Voice Actors on Avatar*​

*5.* Jack Desena

*4.* Jason Isaacs

*3.* Clancy Brown

*2.* Grey DeLisle

* Dee Bradley Baker

*1.* Mako


----------



## Burke (Jan 28, 2011)

Waaat, Dante basco is like the new king of kids show voice overs!
hes like the new Scott Menville
hes like the male Grey Delisle
Hes like a young Yuri Lowenthall


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 28, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Waaat, Dante basco is like the new king of kids show voice overs!
> hes like the new Scott Menville
> hes like the male Grey Delisle
> Hes like a young Yuri Lowenthall




whatanincredibleliethatwas


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2011)

Jove said:


> I believe I'd put Clancy Brown...
> 
> 
> Oh hell, I'll rank them.
> ...



How could you not mention Mark Hamill?  He is a legend, a famous and talented voice actor who has portrayed numerous characters who will likely be remembered for many years into the future. I can understand that each viewer may have their own preferences for voice actors, but I do believe that it is a terrible injustice to not mention him, the voice actor of Ozai, but to mention that actors who played the voices for _Sokka, Momo, and Appa!_


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 29, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How could you not mention Mark Hamill?  He is a legend, a famous and talented voice actor who has portrayed numerous characters who will likely be remembered for many years into the future. I can understand that each viewer may have their own preferences for voice actors, but I do believe that it is a terrible injustice to not mention him, the voice actor of Ozai, but to mention that actors who played the voices for _Sokka, Momo, and Appa!_


Trying too hard.

IT wouldn't be fair, Hamill had much less time on the show than others, that would be a disservice to the actors who have spent more time, and effort than Hamill.

He would've been a nominee if Ozai had more lines in Avatar. The mainstays have much more of a chance to prove themselves. Just because you like him for his other roles in other serials, has no bearing on which voice actor was better on Avatar alone.

Is it really fair to those who had lines in every episode, to be superseded by a person who recorded a few lines here or there?


----------



## Stunna (Jan 29, 2011)

No Dante Basco?

List incomplete.


----------



## Koi (Jan 29, 2011)

I'd honestly say that Dee Bradly Baker probably has the most impressive resume.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 29, 2011)

Koi said:


> I'd honestly say that Dee Bradly Baker probably has the most impressive resume.


That guy is like Tom Kenny, in just about everything.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Trying too hard.
> 
> IT wouldn't be fair, Hamill had much less time on the show than others, that would be a disservice to the actors who have spent more time, and effort than Hamill.
> 
> ...



Yes, I suppose that you are correct there, but Ozai's lack of screentime and lines made him more mysterious and menacing, which, in my mind, are always good traits for an antagonist to have.



Noah said:


> Right. I forgot. Having a comic relief character in anything is like taking a shit on an apple pie your grandmother made for you.



Actually, that is not what I believe; a sense of humor works for some characters, such as Aang or Sokka, but Mr. Freeze is _supposed_ to be emotionless; that is a part of his character. He had a difficult childhood, and then his wife became so ill that she fell into a near-death-like state, forcing him to freeze her so that she would live while he attempted to find a cure for her, all of which certainly affected his psychological state. Therefore, Arnold Schwarzenegger's portrayal of him was, to me, a travesty because it did not include that lack of emotion that was a result of his detachment from the world.

And as for the characters whom I mentioned earlier, they _did_ have emotions, but they almost never displayed those emotions, except under rare circumstances. Additionally, in comparison to the heroes of their series, who are excessively emotional, in my mind, of course they would seem to be lacking in emotions. Finally, I also wish to point out that every character whom I mentioned previously is significantly older than his heroic counterpart, and that most people in actuality are very emotional when they are young and learn to control their emotions better as the grow older.



Snow Miser said:


> Ozai, June, Sparky Sparky Boom Man Combustion Man, and Kyoshi weren't enough.



Kyoshi was well-portrayed to me; she was stern and stoic, but still was interesting because of her belief that she was right and just, even if her methods were seen as extreme by other people (myself included). Ozai and Jun certainly did display emotion, and I am sorry to say that I found Combustion Man to be only mildly interesting. He worked well as an antagonist who recurred for several episodes and was then defeated; he was different from the characters whom I mentioned earlier in that he was not meant to be present for the entire remainder of the series, and thus did not have any hidden character depth, as did the others.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 29, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I suppose that you are correct there, but Ozai's lack of screentime and lines made him more mysterious and menacing, which, in my mind, are always good traits for an antagonist to have.



Except that has nothing to do with the voice actor's talent, that's a story and character thing.




> And as for the characters whom I mentioned earlier, they _did_ have emotions, but they almost never displayed those emotions, except under rare circumstances. Additionally, in comparison to the heroes of their series, who are excessively emotional, in my mind, of course they would seem to be lacking in emotions. Finally, I also wish to point out that every character whom I mentioned previously is significantly older than his heroic counterpart, and that most people in actuality are very emotional when they are young and learn to control their emotions better as the grow older.


No, those characters were poorly written, and designed to be antagonistic forces. They have no real personality of their own that isn't dictated by serving a cause that the protagonist is opposed to.

Why else do you think they are drawn so attractive? They don't have much going on up there.



> Kyoshi was well-portrayed to me; she was stern and stoic, but still was interesting because of her belief that she was right and just, even if her methods were seen as extreme by other people (myself included).


Chin was a tyrannical conqueror who was going to conquer the continent.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 29, 2011)

Stunna said:


> No Dante Basco?
> 
> List incomplete.



No, he's nowhere near the top 5. For instance:

"whatanincredibleliethatwas"



Tom Kenny will always be the guy from Mr. Show.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Except that has nothing to do with the voice actor's talent, that's a story and character thing.



You are correct there, but Mark Hamill is still my favorite actor out of all those in the series (which is actually not relevant to the topic, but I still wished to mention it, anyway).



ReikaiDemon said:


> No, those characters were poorly written, and designed to be antagonistic forces. They have no real personality of their own that isn't dictated by serving a cause that the protagonist is opposed to.
> 
> Why else do you think they are drawn so attractive? They don't have much going on up there.



I still say that that is your opinion, not a fact, but I do not wish to debate that subject any further, so I shall allow you to have your opinion and ask that we now move to the next point in our conversation.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Chin was a tyrannical conqueror who was going to conquer the continent.



The only proof of that fact, that Chin the Conqueror was a tyrant, is Kyoshi's word. She may have been the Avatar, but she was still one person, so her word cannot be accepted by the audience, or the characters within the series, as truth.


----------



## Burke (Jan 29, 2011)

Jove said:


> No, he's nowhere near the top 5. For instance:
> 
> "whatanincredibleliethatwas"
> 
> ...



How long have you had this intense rufio hatred.


----------



## Piekage (Jan 29, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The only proof of that fact, that Chin the Conqueror was a tyrant, is Kyoshi's word. She may have been the Avatar, but she was still one person, so her word cannot be accepted by the audience, or the characters within the series, as truth.



We have no reason to believe Kyoshi lied; she's been dead for years and clearly doesn't care what people think of her now. We have no reason to believe that Kyoshi would attack someone for no reason either. There is also nothing else to contradict this. If the creators had intended on Chin being something other then what was presented to us, they'd have shown it to us. Anything else is speculation that probably won't be confirmed officially, so discussing "Maybe Chin was a nice guy" or whatever is pointless.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 29, 2011)

N??ps said:


> How long have you had this intense rufio hatred.



I have an intense "Basco made a number of peculiar acting choices throughout the series."


----------



## Ino Yamanaka (Jan 29, 2011)

I loved watching Ty Lee actually fighting more. Made me happy.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 29, 2011)

Piekage said:


> We have no reason to believe Kyoshi lied; she's been dead for years and clearly doesn't care what people think of her now. We have no reason to believe that Kyoshi would attack someone for no reason either. There is also nothing else to contradict this. If the creators had intended on Chin being something other then what was presented to us, they'd have shown it to us. Anything else is speculation that probably won't be confirmed officially, so discussing "Maybe Chin was a nice guy" or whatever is pointless.


This. 

Honestly, where the heck are you getting this sympathy for the villainous bastards in Avatar?

First it was Ozai before his grand attempt at CONTINENT WIDE genocide, now, it is Chin, a guy that is the equivalent of the Qin emperor of China and Genghis Khan.

And Kyoshi was pretty gracious of Chin too, she didn't kill him until he posed threat to the peace of the Earth Continent. He had his warnings well in advance.


----------



## Koi (Jan 29, 2011)

That's true.  Kiyoshi probably could have killed him with mind bullets from half a world away.  She went easy on him.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Jan 29, 2011)

Koi said:


> That's true.  Kiyoshi probably could have killed him with mind bullets from half a world away.  She went easy on him.



Pretty sure a kick to the groin with her size 27 boot would have done it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 29, 2011)

Koi said:


> That's true.  Kiyoshi probably could have killed him with mind bullets from half a world away.  She went easy on him.


That yak never had a chance


----------



## Koi (Jan 29, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> Pretty sure a kick to the groin with her size 27 boot would have done it.


My brain automatically went, 'And that'd be a size 25ish in mens' shoes!  Maybe a 26 because half sizes don't run that big!' 

I need to find another job. Sigh.



ReikaiDemon said:


> That yak never had a chance


THAT'S TELEKINESIS, REKAI!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2011)

Piekage said:


> We have no reason to believe Kyoshi lied; she's been dead for years and clearly doesn't care what people think of her now. We have no reason to believe that Kyoshi would attack someone for no reason either. There is also nothing else to contradict this. If the creators had intended on Chin being something other then what was presented to us, they'd have shown it to us. Anything else is speculation that probably won't be confirmed officially, so discussing "Maybe Chin was a nice guy" or whatever is pointless.





ReikaiDemon said:


> Honestly, where the heck are you getting this sympathy for the villainous bastards in Avatar?



I never said or implied that I was sympathizing with the villains, and I agree that, despite the fact that the only proof that Chin was a ruthless tyrant is the word of one person, it _is_ still the only proof that exists, and that, from little was shown of Kyoshi, she would have no reason to lie about Chin's personality. I was being completely hypothetical when I made my earlier statement, and I wish to encourage the other users of this forum to never take anything for the truth unless they have tangible, reliable, and verifiable evidence of it being true, both in the context of a fictional series and in actuality.

For example,
*Spoiler*: _Naruto spoilers_ 



far too many members (in my mind) of this forum who have read the _Naruto_ manga series are accepting Madara Uchiha's word that the Uchiha clan was discriminated against by the village of Konoha, and that the Uchiha clan was plotting to overthrow the village's government, as truth, when there is no evidence, apart from Madara's word, that this story is true. Unlike Kyoshi, Madara is a highly deceptive and manipulative person, so anything that he says is highly unreliable, yet many users here seem to believe that what he is saying is true, while I am waiting for definitive evidence from Kishimoto on that subject. This is not completely relevant to the main subject that I was discussing previously, but it is an example of the mentality that I have whenever a character in a fictional series is seen only in the flashback of another character, as the character relating the story may be biased in doing so. Surely, the other users here can understand that viewpoint, and why it is always good to have a reasonable amount of skepticism when dealing with "word-of-mouth" information?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 29, 2011)

DDJ...The series is over, if they wanted to paint Chin as a goodie two shoes who kissed babies, they would've. 

But what stands is what is shown, besides that, he was a WARLORD, he got his power by force. 

No amount of long winded, ill-fitted analogies will change the fact that Kyoshi was well within her decision to end Chin's tyranny. Especially not "evidence" FROM OTHER SERIES. I also advise you to go back, and watch that scene again. She never really killed Chin directly, it was Chin's fault for not getting to safety himself. 

Chin was a minor character, there is no further depth given beyond what has been shown.


Here is your summary. 

And for goodness sakes, learn what brevity means. We don't need the life story of Itachi to know how Naruto went. Besides that, technically, it's against the rules because you've dropped one motherload of a spoiler bomb outside of the Naruto section of the forums.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 30, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> DDJ...The series is over, if they wanted to paint Chin as a goodie two shoes who kissed babies, they would've.
> 
> But what stands is what is shown, besides that, he was a WARLORD, he got his power by force.
> 
> ...



I shall no longer argue the subject of Chin the Conqueror, because I now have stated my opinion about him, and there is no need to debate the subject of him any further. As for the _Naruto_ issue, I thought that that particular piece of information was common knowledge on this forum at this point in time, as it has been more than a year in actuality since that information was revealed, but if you believe that it is not common knowledge at this point, I shall conceal it properly.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 30, 2011)

The only instance, that I recall, of unreliable narrator in Avatar was The Great Divide. This is a kid's show, and the reason it works at a level equal to or greater than "adult" shows is that being oriented towards children requires a clarity of ideas in the writing.




Also, Koi-chan: FOTC > The D. 

MD mod's weight, though, goes fully behind the Tenacious D album as a legitimate record.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 30, 2011)

So under this ''Chin was really a nice guy who loved puppies'' theory, what explanation is there for the ''the conquerer'' part of his name?

Just a really ironic and unfortunate surname?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 30, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> So under this ''Chin was really a nice guy who loved puppies'' theory, what explanation is there for the ''the conquerer'' part of his name?
> 
> Just a really ironic and unfortunate surname?



I never said that I doubted that Chin was a brutal tyrant, and I also never said that I had any reason to suspect that Kyoshi would lie about such a subject, but I did wish to point out to the users of this forum that it is very dangerous to accept a person's words without tangible evidence.

Now, because this conversation became incredibly diverted from the subject that I mentioned earlier, I shall ask my question one more time: would a waterbender who used ice more often than water in its liquid form and had a "cold" personality be an interesting character, whether they were major or minor, or would such a character seem to be out of place in this series' universe?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 30, 2011)

> I never said that I doubted that Chin was a brutal tyrant, and I also  never said that I had any reason to suspect that Kyoshi would lie about  such a subject, but I did wish to point out to the users of this forum  that it is very dangerous to accept a person's words without tangible  evidence.



Oh right, the world stops turning if we take a cartoon's word for truth 

DDJ, you're not as clever as you think you are.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 30, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Oh right, the world stops turning if we take a cartoon's word for truth



Again, you are "putting words in my mouth," implying that I said something that I did not actually say. If a person takes something that was said in a fictional series to be truth, without any actual evidence, that is not such a great problem, but in actuality, it is a completely different matter.



ReikaiDemon said:


> DDJ, you're not as clever as you think you are.



If I allow your words to bother me, then you will be correct, but I shall not allow your words to bother me. You are simply one person out of hundreds or even thousands who are members of this forum, so there is no reason for me to even pay attention to what you say, let alone allow your words to bother me. You may say what you wish to say about me, but I have numerous other people, both on this forum and in actuality, who treat me with respect, are polite to me, and genuinely appreciate my company and conversation, so I shall focus on their words and not on yours.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 30, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Again, you are "putting words in my mouth," implying that I said something that I did not actually say. If a person takes something that was said in a fictional series to be truth, without any actual evidence, that is not such a great problem, but in actuality, it is a completely different matter.
> 
> 
> 
> If I allow your words to bother me, then you will be correct, but I shall not allow your words to bother me. You are simply one person out of hundreds or even thousands who are members of this forum, so there is no reason for me to even pay attention to what you say, let alone allow your words to bother me. You may say what you wish to say about me, but I have numerous other people, both on this forum and in actuality, who treat me with respect, are polite to me, and genuinely appreciate my company and conversation, so I shall focus on their words and not on yours.


And this is also a completely different matter.

It's not applicable or relevant, there is no grounds to refute it. What would make sense is to doubt whatever comes out of Azula's mouth. She lies a lot, and there's no reason not to doubt her. While Kyoshi's personality doesn't lend herself to any untruthful behavior, neither did it benefit Aang for her to tell the truth. If she wanted Aang to go unpunished, then she would've lied, and said she didn't cause Chin's death. For a person of justice, in a court of law, there is very little doubt that she was telling the truth.

I think you have a poor judge of situation and character.

And like I said before, respect can be earned and lost, you had principle respect when I met you, you promptly lost it, and you continue to add to my disrespect for you with stuff like this, and your ill thought out views of what's right.


----------



## Noah (Jan 30, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Again, you are "putting words in my mouth," implying that I said something that I did not actually say. If a person takes something that was said in a fictional series to be truth, without any actual evidence, that is not such a great problem, but in actuality, it is a completely different matter.
> 
> 
> 
> If I allow your words to bother me, then you will be correct, but I shall not allow your words to bother me. You are simply one person out of hundreds or even thousands who are members of this forum, so there is no reason for me to even pay attention to what you say, let alone allow your words to bother me. You may say what you wish to say about me, but I have numerous other people, both on this forum and in actuality, who treat me with respect, are polite to me, and genuinely appreciate my company and conversation, so I shall focus on their words and not on yours.



Your response is basically the equivalent of "Well, Mommy says I'm the most handsomest boy in the whole wide world."

Awesome.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 30, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If I allow your words to bother me, then you will be correct, but I shall not allow your words to bother me. You are simply one person out of hundreds or even thousands who are members of this forum, so there is no reason for me to even pay attention to what you say, let alone allow your words to bother me. You may say what you wish to say about me, but I have numerous other people, both on this forum and in actuality, who treat me with respect, are polite to me, and genuinely appreciate my company and conversation, so I shall focus on their words and not on yours.



I would like to write you a prescription for a pair of testicles.
Pick them up at your friends wallet when you're telling them how you couldn't handle anyone else other than the people whom you've selected to surround yourself with.
And I do say this as a fairly high ranking member of this forum


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 31, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> It's not applicable or relevant, there is no grounds to refute it. What would make sense is to doubt whatever comes out of Azula's mouth. She lies a lot, and there's no reason not to doubt her. While Kyoshi's personality doesn't lend herself to any untruthful behavior, neither did it benefit Aang for her to tell the truth. If she wanted Aang to go unpunished, then she would've lied, and said she didn't cause Chin's death. For a person of justice, in a court of law, there is very little doubt that she was telling the truth.



I agree with you about this subject, and I was indeed suspicious of anything that Azula said; unlike Kyoshi, she was not a trustworthy person.



ReikaiDemon said:


> And like I said before, respect can be earned and lost, you had principle respect when I met you, you promptly lost it, and you continue to add to my disrespect for you with stuff like this, and your ill thought out views of what's right.



In that case, how can I regain your respect? I do not like to leave unresolved tension or grudges between myself and other people, so I wish to resolve this issue, if that is possible.



Noah said:


> Your response is basically the equivalent of "Well, Mommy says I'm the most handsomest boy in the whole wide world."



So, are you saying that I _should_ allow Reikai Demon's words to bother me, rather than simply ignoring them, which, in my mind, if a far more mature course of action?



Banhammer said:


> I would like to write you a prescription for a pair of testicles.
> Pick them up at your friends wallet when you're telling them how you couldn't handle anyone else other than the people whom you've selected to surround yourself with.
> And I do say this as a fairly high ranking member of this forum



So, are you saying that I need to tolerate Reikai Demon's comments? I am doing that currently, but he still insults me. I have never insulted him at all, so could you ask him to cease insulting me? I am not asking him to like me as a person, but surely it is not too much for me to ask for him to stop insulting me?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 31, 2011)

This thread is turning into the Gang without Sokka.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Jove said:


> This thread is turning into the Gang without Sokka.



In complete seriousness and honesty, I am giving my best effort to be polite and to defuse any hostilities, but it seems to me that my efforts are currently less than successful. Surely, you can help redirect this thread back to an actual discussion of _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_


----------



## Burke (Jan 31, 2011)

Jove said:


> This thread is turning into the Gang without Sokka.



Are you saying we lack humor?

@DDJ stop saying "shall", "I am going" is a perfect substitute for "I shall", and it makes you sound less like a prude


----------



## Gunners (Jan 31, 2011)

> So, are you saying that I should allow Reikai Demon's words to bother me, rather than simply ignoring them, which, in my mind, if a far more mature course of action?


He's saying that you should consider the possibility that the people who are annoyed with your behaviour are justified in feeling that way. People that only listen to the good things said about them do not grow and never see their errors.



> In complete seriousness and honesty, I am giving my best effort to be polite and to defuse any hostilities, but it seems to me that my efforts are currently less than successful. Surely, you can help redirect this thread back to an actual discussion of Avatar: the Last Airbender?


_Balderwash_, the last page had you pointing out a minor spelling mistake. That is a sure fire way to diffuse hostility [sarcasm]. Also speaking to people, in a way that you feel, in a respectable tone does not automatically equal polite. It comes in like you are patronising everyone you speak to.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jan 31, 2011)

Basically, what everyone said


----------



## Koi (Jan 31, 2011)

I think there's an ignore feature for a reason.  And that reason is to _keep the Avatar thread at least somewhat on track_.


----------



## Burke (Jan 31, 2011)

My personalyignore feature is...
Look at post
If its a wall of text, dont even bother
next post
etc


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Gunners said:


> He's saying that you should consider the possibility that the people who are annoyed with your behaviour are justified in feeling that way. People that only listen to the good things said about them do not grow and never see their errors.



Well, I believe that I am doing that, for I am no longer mentioning aspects of the series that I disliked and have agreed that the other users of this forum that their logic is sound on various subjects. What else is there to do?



Nøøps said:


> @DDJ stop saying "shall", "I am going" is a perfect substitute for "I shall", and it makes you sound less like a prude



Why do so many users on this forum seem to be bothered by the manner in which I speak? Not long ago, I a moderator reminded me to respect the fact that some users here may have dyslexia or similar conditions that may inhibit their ability to use proper grammar or spelling when typing, so I therefore believe that it is only fair to ask that other users here respect the fact that I am extremely adamant about using proper grammar and formal language at all times.



Koi said:


> I think there's an ignore feature for a reason.  And that reason is to _keep the Avatar thread at least somewhat on track_.



I do wish to remain on the subject of the series, but, I am reluctant to admit, I am running out of ideas for things to say about the series in the thread, but I still wish to participate in its discussion, which is a likely reason for some of my posts being poorly-thought-out or inflammatory.


----------



## Koi (Jan 31, 2011)

Okay let's say everyone in this thread could bend whatever element they wanted.  What would everyone pick?!


I'd pick water  because holy crap the many, many uses.  And maybe I'd learn to like the beach!


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Jan 31, 2011)

Fire for the ability to throw some lightning.  god knows I have been shocked more time than I can remember while doing electrical work sure would have helped those times


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Koi said:


> Okay let's say everyone in this thread could bend whatever element they wanted.  What would everyone pick?!
> 
> 
> I'd pick water  because holy crap the many, many uses.  And maybe I'd learn to like the beach!



I find each element to have its own appeal, but I would definitely choose fire, for I perceive it as the most powerful and passionate of the elements, and I am very fond of seeing flames burn and blaze. Plus, shooting fire from my hands would be the closest that I could get to being able to perform a _ki_ blast attack, like those in countless Japanese animated series, such as _Dragon Ball._


----------



## Noah (Feb 1, 2011)

Under the assumption I could learn all aspects of the element, I'd go with Earth. What's that? Build my own brick and mortar mansion with working plumbing? Yes please.

Second choice is air. It just seems so convenient in everyday life. Flying, speed, slicing....man. I wanna wind slice something now.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 1, 2011)

Jove said:


> This thread is turning into the Gang without Sokka.


"What an incredible lie that was!"


Koi said:


> Okay let's say everyone in this thread could bend whatever element they wanted.  What would everyone pick?!


Recently, I've found myself drawn to the idea of Earthbending.


Noah said:


> I wanna air slice something now.


----------



## silly (Feb 1, 2011)

Is there anything out yet, besides the 3 seasons of airbender?


----------



## Mider T (Feb 1, 2011)

I've said it before, but even though I'd want to be a firebender I'd probably be an earthbender.  It suits me more.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 1, 2011)

silly said:


> Is there anything out yet, besides the 3 seasons of airbender?


Just _The Last Airbender_, the movie directed by M. Night Shyamalan.


----------



## Mider T (Feb 1, 2011)

This is a new page and I didn't respond to him for a reason, you weren't supposed to acknowledge him


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 1, 2011)

Mider T said:


> I've said it before, but even though I'd want to be a firebender I'd probably be an earthbender.  It suits me more.


 No, you're more suited to being a Waterbender specializing in bending the water in bananas.


----------



## silly (Feb 1, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> Just _The Last Airbender_, the movie directed by M. Night Shyamalan.



Oh yea.. the movie was terribad, at first I was wondering why it had so low ratings, but after trying to watch it.. even the dialogs were like fanmade


----------



## Eki (Feb 1, 2011)

NO ONE SPEAK OF THAT MOVIE. IT NEVER HAPPENED


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 1, 2011)

Koi said:


> Okay let's say everyone in this thread could bend whatever element they wanted.  What would everyone pick?!
> 
> 
> I'd pick water  because holy crap the many, many uses.  And maybe I'd learn to like the beach!




No one could learn to like The Beach. 


I'd bend air, no question. Airbending is the discipline of freedom and I could cool tea faster. 

Though Waterbending would be pretty cool, to melt some of this fucking snow.


----------



## Burke (Feb 1, 2011)

Jove said:


> No one could learn to like The Beach.
> 
> 
> I'd bend air, no question. Airbending is the discipline of freedom and I could cool tea faster.
> ...



Which is worse, The Beach, or M. Night's The Last Airbender.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 1, 2011)

The Beach, at least, is still Avatar.

We can all agree that The Last Airbender was a completely unrelated project M. Night independently made that coincidentally shared a few character names and plot beats.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 1, 2011)

Jove said:


> The Beach, at least, is still Avatar.
> 
> We can all agree that The Last Airbender was a completely unrelated project M. Night independently made that coincidentally shared a few character names and plot beats.



Was the movie really that bad? I have been considering seeing it, but it has received much negative criticism, so I would rather not spend any time to watch it if it is not worth the time and brain cells of mine that doing so would use.


----------



## Jeroen (Feb 1, 2011)

Koi said:


> Okay let's say everyone in this thread could bend whatever element they wanted. What would everyone pick?!


 
While I can see the usefulness for each element, I'd go with Earth.



Jove said:


> No one could learn to like The Beach.


 
I.. liked that episode. 



Jove said:


> We can all agree that The Last Airbender was a completely unrelated project M. Night independently made that coincidentally shared a few character names and plot beats.


 
I can, wholeheartedly, agree with that.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 1, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Was the movie really that bad? I have been considering seeing it, but it has received much negative criticism, so I would rather not spend any time to watch it if it is not worth the time and brain cells of mine that doing so would use.



Since when are you bothered by negative criticism?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 1, 2011)

Ignore the men behind the curtain of water.





DemonDragonJ said:


> Was the movie really that bad? I have been considering seeing it, but it has received much negative criticism, so I would rather not spend any time to watch it if it is not worth the time and brain cells of mine that doing so would use.


But don't worry, as soon as you walk outside that door, you'll start feeling better. You'll remember that you don't believe any of their crap. You're in control of your own life, remember?


----------



## Burke (Feb 1, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Was the movie really that bad? I have been considering seeing it, but it has received much negative criticism, so I would rather not spend any time to watch it if it is not worth the time and brain cells of mine that doing so would use.



If watching the movie will give you more to discuss with us, then...

Hell no, never watch it!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 1, 2011)

That's an interesting question, are we considering the use of bending powers in modern day, or in a world like Avatar?

I think Earthbending would most likely be prohibited, because it causes damage to roads and side walks and what not.Maybe it will be restricted to industrial use, like how bulldozers need a specialized license for use.

Waterbending would seem like it has no issues, collateral damagewise. Might be popular as a leisure style. 

I'm sure Firebending would be stigmatized, and would be regulated how certain guns are only available to military use.

Airbending would be the same as Waterbending.

Interesting, yin elements get the least amount of problems today than the yang elements.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That's an interesting question, are we considering the use of bending powers in modern day, or in a world like Avatar?
> 
> I think Earthbending would most likely be prohibited, because it causes damage to roads and side walks and what not.Maybe it will be restricted to industrial use, like how bulldozers need a specialized license for use.
> 
> ...



How would certain bending styles be prohibited or regulated? By other benders, I presume? However, the difference with bending, as opposed to firearms, is that bending is an inherent ability that is a part of a person's being, so attempting to make a person not use that ability would be very foolish and tyrannical, like asking an artist not to work their art or a musician not to play music.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 2, 2011)

I can't murder people indiscriminately without getting caught with music.


----------



## Noah (Feb 2, 2011)

And certain types of music and art have been banned before in history.

Well, maybe music was just frowned upon, but art was definitely banned in......somewhere at some point in time.


----------



## Burke (Feb 2, 2011)

Noah said:


> And certain types of music and art have been banned before in history.
> 
> Well, maybe music was just frowned upon, but art was definitely banned in......somewhere at some point in time.



What is art histories?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 2, 2011)

How to inhibit bending is shown in the first series. In Imprisoned or in The runaway, by putting benders in situations that prevents them from bending. Or, more subtly, in the Ba Sing Se mini-arc; Azula took the city down without any bending, just psychological manipulation.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How would certain bending styles be prohibited or regulated? By other benders, I presume? However, the difference with bending, as opposed to firearms, is that bending is an inherent ability that is a part of a person's being, so attempting to make a person not use that ability would be very foolish and tyrannical, like asking an artist not to work their art or a musician not to play music.



It's not tyrannical if it's for the benefit of others. For example, learning to pick locks can do harm, but as a locksmith, it's a profession to benefit others. In a different, hypothetical world that was run by locks and keys, picking locks would carry an ethical responsibility, which some people lack. Then it becomes law to enforce and regulate against the misuse of lock picking.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. There will be laws against the misuse of bending. I'm sure that people will abide by such laws, because some benders realize the responsibility that comes with their abilities. It's destructive for example, to Earthbend near roads and buildings, where it could endanger lives, and costs a lot in damages. To legislate laws to regulate bending is not a slippery slope to complete oppression.





Noah said:


> And certain types of music and art have been banned before in history.
> 
> Well, maybe music was just frowned upon, but art was definitely banned in......somewhere at some point in time.


You know what's funny? A _chord_ was once banned in music under the Catholic Church.


----------



## Koi (Feb 2, 2011)

Jove said:


> How to inhibit bending is shown in the first series. In Imprisoned or in The runaway, by putting benders in situations that prevents them from bending. *Or, more subtly, in the Ba Sing Se mini-arc; Azula took the city down without any bending, just psychological manipulation.*



So you could say she's a.. _mind bender_.


----------



## Noah (Feb 2, 2011)

Looks like it's time we ban psychological manipulation!

NO FAVORS FOR ANYONE!


----------



## Koi (Feb 2, 2011)

BUT.. CONNIVING IS ALL I HAVE!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 2, 2011)

Koi said:


> So you could say she's a.. _mind bender_.


No! Mind _TAKING_!

[sp][/sp]


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 2, 2011)

Find a smaller version, Rekky.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 2, 2011)

Looks okay for me

[sp][/sp]


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 2, 2011)

It's gargantuan on mine... I'll change it back.


Funny how we arbitrarily came around to what is possibly a major theme of Korra... what we're talking about now are probably the same kinds of murmurs that led to the revolt. 


Rekky's right, though... it's not oppression. It's not even utilitarianism. as society advances, it would be almost imperative to control bending.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 2, 2011)

Jove said:


> It's gargantuan on mine... I'll change it back.
> 
> 
> Funny how we arbitrarily came around to what is possibly a major theme of Korra...


Everything is connected 

Or....

MIND TAKING!

OOO WEEEE OOOOO!!


----------



## Koi (Feb 2, 2011)

It's 4kx3k pixels for me.

And you're right, bending regulation makes total sense as society advances, _maybe_.  The amount of restriction depends if they develop with the aid of bending or not, though.  Because one of the things I love about the Avatar universe is how they use bending for EVERYTHING.  Need a quick wall and gate?  Get some earthbenders.  Gotta power a hot air balloon?  Firebenders are your guys.  Hell, if the air nomads hadn't been wiped out they could have had alternate forms of air travel, or at least could develop them in the future.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 2, 2011)

Really? Must be my add-ons then...

I'm sure they have benders in their police force to combat belligerent benders. Even if they weren't suddenly in our modern society, the Avatar world was bound to have laws already existing in regards to benders and the use of their powers. Or at least socially acceptable norms, and ethics.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 2, 2011)

What would asphalt bending be? The stones would be Earthbending... but what about the actual asphalt?


----------



## Ninamori Espeon (Feb 2, 2011)

I used to love this show, especially when they were in Ba Sing Se, that was my favorite.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 2, 2011)

Jove said:


> What would asphalt bending be? The stones would be Earthbending... but what about the actual asphalt?


The rocks in the asphalt?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> The rocks in the asphalt?



You have the stones, and you have the asphalt material, the binding agent. The stones would obviously be Earthbending, but the stones don't mean a damn thing.


What would the asphalt fall under? What does petroleum fall under? Could it even be manipulated by bending as we know it? I mean, you can't really bend the organisms that make it up, so why would you be able to bend it?


----------



## EnterTheTao (Feb 3, 2011)

I want Legend of Korra news.


----------



## Koi (Feb 3, 2011)

Isn't there supposed to be some at whatever Con is coming up next or something?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 3, 2011)

Jove said:


> Rekky's right, though... it's not oppression. It's not even utilitarianism. as society advances, it would be almost imperative to control bending.



Would it not be very difficult to control bending? If enough benders wished to oppose governmental control, and if they outnumbered the benders who worked for the government, would they then have a great advantage? As for myself, if I were a bender, I certainly would not allow anyone to tell me how I could and could not use my ability.

And before anyone suggests that I am anti-government or an anarchist, I shall say that I am not not; I understand the importance of the government in protecting the people and helping to keep society orderly and nonviolent, but I am confident in my personal ability to protect myself and live my life without the assistance of the government. In other words, I shall accept the government's presence and authority, but only when doing so does not directly prevent me from achieving a goal of mine, and because my goals usually are not goals that will directly oppose the government or cause harm to others, I do not need to worry that this attitude will be troublesome for me as I live my life.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 3, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Would it not be very difficult to control bending? If enough benders wished to oppose governmental control, and if they outnumbered the benders who worked for the government, would they then have a great advantage? As for myself, if I were a bender, I certainly would not allow anyone to tell me how I could and could not use my ability.
> 
> And before anyone suggests that I am anti-government or an anarchist, I shall say that I am not not; I understand the importance of the government in protecting the people and helping to keep society orderly and nonviolent, but I am confident in my personal ability to protect myself and live my life without the assistance of the government. In other words, I shall accept the government's presence and authority, but only when doing so does not directly prevent me from achieving a goal of mine, and because my goals usually are not goals that will directly oppose the government or cause harm to others, I do not need to worry that this attitude will be troublesome for me as I live my life.


That's a very narrow, ill thought view. What they tell you how to use bending would probably already fit with your personal ethics, such as not using boulders to crush people, or not toppling a building. 

Nearly everyone can drive, but there are laws against plowing the front end of your Ford into a library, or recklessly speeding in a dense pedestrian area.

It won't be something like, you can't bend, period.


----------



## Gunners (Feb 3, 2011)

> Would it not be very difficult to control bending? If enough benders wished to oppose governmental control, and if they outnumbered the benders who worked for the government, would they then have a great advantage? As for myself, if I were a bender, I certainly would not allow anyone to tell me how I could and could not use my ability.


Then you'd get taken down and locked up. 

If I had to pick an element it would be air, in day to day life I guess it would have the most use.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 3, 2011)

You can charge people on hot days


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That's a very narrow, ill thought view. What they tell you how to use bending would probably already fit with your personal ethics, such as not using boulders to crush people, or not toppling a building.
> 
> Nearly everyone can drive, but there are laws against plowing the front end of your Ford into a library, or recklessly speeding in a dense pedestrian area.
> 
> It won't be something like, you can't bend, period.



That is different, and I would not have a problem with such a law. Only if I was told that I could not bend at all would I be displeased.



Gunners said:


> Then you'd get taken down and locked up.



What if I were an extremely skilled bender, or even the Avatar, or if I were a member of a group of benders who outnumbered the law-enforcing benders?


----------



## Noah (Feb 3, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What if I were an extremely skilled bender, or even the Avatar, or if I were a member of a group of benders who outnumbered the law-enforcing benders?



You'd be a criminal/terrorist. You're always trying to apply real world situations, laws and physics to the Avatar world, but you can't grasp this?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 3, 2011)

Okay, so breaking away from the whole "everyone wants to be/believes they could be a bender" thing, what would it be like to be a "normal" person? That means no proficiency in martial arts, or special strengths. 

Would you not be afraid of what could happen to you? You have no way of defending yourself, or worse, your loved ones. Benders run, or are prominent in a lot of things, infrastructure, military, industry, you may not feel like it, but certainly someone feels like there's some preferential treatment here. Obviously, people will be afraid, and why shouldn't they? 

They did cause a war that lasted a century, after all. Some may feel it conspiratorial that the benders are also in charge of most governments. 

A lot of abuse can be wrought. 

From a viewpoint of a non-bender, for most, it would seem right to restrict their powers. But from a bender's standpoint, some would feel they should not kowtow to powerless scum, or be denied their culture. Some benders though, realize that one has to be responsible with their knowledge, it is no different than any inherent ability. Abuse is possible as much as responsible use. 

Even with benders policing other benders, there's still a large risk, there's no real way to completely restrict a bender from, say, unleashing a fireball in a crowded town square, or having a fight in a populated area. The law is there, it only depends on the faith people have in the law, and the social agreement of benders to adhere to it. Understandably, non-benders will still be afraid, because those in breech of the law only get punished after they broke the law. 

But it's still necessary for regulation on bending, it gives people peace of mind, and reaffirms the ethics of benders responsible enough to understand the consequences, and warns potential trouble makers that there will be legal action if they were to hurt someone.

And besides, in Avatar, most benders not working in commute, or industry, or entertainment, are in the whatever military their home has. Bending is mostly, a martial art, as in, an art for war, or fighting. It's not too far off from laws in the history of our world. Those who practice iron hand kung fu, noticeably have calloused and conditioned hands. Such people with hands like those of iron hand kung fu, are put under more scrutiny in society than others, because of their potential to harm someone. Often, those who learn martial arts, and are not in the military, are frowned upon in society, because mostly, people abuse martial arts for crime, or for personal superiority. 

Gangs often learn martial arts solely for that purpose. Martial arts weaponry have been banned in most societies from carrying it in public.

The reasoning is understandable, what use could you have for a weapon or knowledge suited for war in a peaceful society? In that case, some would feel like it's squandering their powers, by not using it in a place most suited and most used. Much like gun laws, some guns are plain restricted from the public.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Okay, so breaking away from the whole "everyone wants to be/believes they could be a bender" thing, what would it be like to be a "normal" person? That means no proficiency in martial arts, or special strengths.
> 
> Would you not be afraid of what could happen to you? You have no way of defending yourself, or worse, your loved ones. Benders run, or are prominent in a lot of things, infrastructure, military, industry, you may not feel like it, but certainly someone feels like there's some preferential treatment here. Obviously, people will be afraid, and why shouldn't they?
> 
> ...



The only thing I can do join the benevolent order of sokka's soldier or B.O.S.S. for short.  Every member would get a boomerang, and meat.  One must pass the minimum level of sarcasm to be accepted suffice it to say some folks in this thread would not meet the minimum sarcasm requirements.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 3, 2011)

Noah said:


> You'd be a criminal/terrorist. You're always trying to apply real world situations, laws and physics to the Avatar world, but you can't grasp this?



There is the philosophy of "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter," but that seems too close to Jet's extremism, and I always attempt to avoid being extreme in anything that I do, except for being extremely devoted to doing well in school, at my job, and getting along well with other people.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 3, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Would it not be very difficult to control bending?


Just add a little LionTurtle Spiritbending magic.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 3, 2011)

Terrorism is politically motivated violence in the basest of terms, it would also be considered terrorism to produce an atmosphere of fear. Creating a large group of benders in opposition to law-enforcement sounds like it will cause a large atmosphere of fear.


----------



## Burke (Feb 3, 2011)

Jove said:


> It's gargantuan on mine... I'll change it back.
> 
> 
> Funny how we arbitrarily came around to what is possibly a major theme of Korra... what we're talking about now are probably the same kinds of murmurs that led to the revolt.



Oh crap, WERE GETTING ON TOPIC!

QUICKLY! THIS IS A DDJ EMERGENCY





DemonDragonJ said:


> There is the philosophy of "one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter," but that seems too close to Jet's extremism, and I always attempt to avoid being extreme in anything that I do, except for being extremely devoted to doing well in school, at my job, and getting along well with other people.



Whew, thanks, we almost stayed on topic.



> But Noops, arent you yourself, by discussing DDJ's posts, staying off topic?


----------



## Gunners (Feb 3, 2011)

> What if I were an extremely skilled bender, or even the Avatar, or if I were a member of a group of benders who outnumbered the law-enforcing benders?


A seasoned sniper would take care of you.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 3, 2011)

Gunners said:


> A seasoned sniper would take care of you.



Except for the fact that snipers do not exist in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ unless you are referring to a sniper with a longbow or crossbow. And if I were a bender, of course I would consider such a possibility, and train myself to be aware of, and deflect, attacks from snipers.



Snow Miser said:


> Just add a little LionTurtle Spiritbending magic.



Thankfully, spiritbending is incredibly rare, so I doubt that it would ever be a major concern for me, and if it were a concern, I would rather be killed than lose my ability to bend. Thus, if I was overpowered by my enemies, I would either ask to be mercifully killed or fight with such intensity that killing me would be the only option for them.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Terrorism is politically motivated violence in the basest of terms, it would also be considered terrorism to produce an atmosphere of fear. Creating a large group of benders in opposition to law-enforcement sounds like it will cause a large atmosphere of fear.



At this moment in my life, I have no desire to utilize such tactics, so it would be the same if I were a bender in the world of _Avatar,_ so I therefore do not believe that I would need to worry about any anti-bending groups attempting to restrict my usage of whatever bending ability that I possessed.


----------



## Darkbalmunk (Feb 3, 2011)

Gunners said:


> A seasoned sniper would take care of you.



Hmmm didnt they have a sumwat of a sniper with Mr eyeball in the forehead man fire bending baldy dude.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Except for the fact that snipers do not exist in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ unless you are referring to a sniper with a longbow or crossbow. And if I were a bender, of course I would consider such a possibility, and train myself to be aware of, and deflect, attacks from snipers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DDJ, snipers BEGAN as archers, you can't prepare for an arrow through the head. Arrows are virtually silent, and a good sniper will always aim for your blind spot. Plus, they even have an advantage over rifle snipers, so scope glare. And that's pending any technological advancements, such as guns, or special benders, like Combustion Man

And as I said before, unless if you are doing something useful with your bending ability, running the trains, smelting ores, or fighting in the military or police force, you WON'T face any trouble. Bending is foremost, a martial art, do you really think everyone's fears are unfounded if you accumulated a large group of Benders not aligned to any cause but your own? In fact, you'd be doing more damage to your kind.

If the Avatar is around, they'll most likely put a stop to you, and if the current Avatar got knowledge of Spiritbending from Aang in a past life, you can bet that he or she will take away your powers, as you so rightfully deserve.

And you still haven't considered how other benders and non-benders may feel, in the wake of a century long war, it would be morally irresponsible to inspire such selfishness. And I will reiterate once again, the laws won't affect you if you are good, such as not having duels to the death in a populated area, or upturning buildings. If you don't like it, then you're a criminal, you're destroying the peace, and making it harder for Benders to be taken peacefully.


----------



## silly (Feb 4, 2011)

Anyone got the link to the OSTs?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 4, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> DDJ, snipers BEGAN as archers, you can't prepare for an arrow through the head. Arrows are virtually silent, and a good sniper will always aim for your blind spot. Plus, they even have an advantage over rifle snipers, so scope glare. And that's pending any technological advancements, such as guns, or special benders, like Combustion Man
> 
> And as I said before, unless if you are doing something useful with your bending ability, running the trains, smelting ores, or fighting in the military or police force, you WON'T face any trouble. Bending is foremost, a martial art, do you really think everyone's fears are unfounded if you accumulated a large group of Benders not aligned to any cause but your own? In fact, you'd be doing more damage to your kind.
> 
> ...



When did I ever say, or imply, that I wished to disrupt the peace of the _Avatar_ universe, or become a terrorist? I never did, so why are you saying such stern words to me? Additionally, there is no guarantee that the Avatar of that time period would have the same views as Aang, so hopefully, they would choose death over spiritbending as a punishment. Finally, this is not completely relevant, but I believe that snipers are cowardly, so I would much rather be defeated by an opponent who will fight me face-to-face.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When did I ever say, or imply, that I wished to disrupt the peace of the _Avatar_ universe, or become a terrorist? I never did, so why are you saying such stern words to me? Additionally, there is no guarantee that the Avatar of that time period would have the same views as Aang, so hopefully, they would choose death over spiritbending as a punishment. Finally, this is not completely relevant, but I believe that snipers are cowardly, so I would much rather be defeated by an opponent who will fight me face-to-face.


You seem to keep jumping to the conclusion that bending is banned altogether.

Also, you're not a sniper, so you have no grounds to say they are cowards. You're American, right? That's a rather large disservice to the snipers who fought on behalf of your country.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 4, 2011)

silly said:


> Anyone got the link to the OSTs?



There is no OST. Not yet. Rumor is there might be one soon. 

I have a collection of snippets that found their way online at various points: Click this link to start reading.


Some of the pieces were taken from the Track Team Myspace pages:




And this interview with mp3s liberally strewn throughout:




The fanpage that compiled a lot of it doesn't exist anymore.


----------



## Noah (Feb 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When did I ever say, or imply, that I wished to disrupt the peace of the _Avatar_ universe, or become a terrorist? I never did, so why are you saying such stern words to me? Additionally, there is no guarantee that the Avatar of that time period would have the same views as Aang, so hopefully, they would choose death over spiritbending as a punishment. Finally, this is not completely relevant, but I believe that snipers are cowardly, so I would much rather be defeated by an opponent who will fight me face-to-face.



Hm?


*Spoiler*: __ 





DemonDragonJ said:


> Would it not be very difficult to control bending? If enough benders wished to oppose governmental control, and if they outnumbered the benders who worked for the government, would they then have a great advantage? As for myself, if I were a bender, I certainly would not allow anyone to tell me how I could and could not use my ability.





DemonDragonJ said:


> What if I were an extremely skilled bender, or even the Avatar, or if I were a member of a group of benders who outnumbered the law-enforcing benders?






Sounds like a terrorist to me. One I'd have no problem popping from 200 yards out with my epic sharpened rock sniper cannon blaster. 

Cowards or not, snipers are nearly always the last one laughing. You can keep your silly pride.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When did I ever say, or imply, that I wished to disrupt the peace of the _Avatar_ universe, or become a terrorist? I never did, so why are you saying such stern words to me? Additionally, there is no guarantee that the Avatar of that time period would have the same views as Aang, so hopefully, they would choose death over spiritbending as a punishment. Finally, this is not completely relevant, but I believe that snipers are cowardly, so I would much rather be defeated by an opponent who will fight me face-to-face.



Seargent Carlos Hathcock would strongly disagree


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 4, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You seem to keep jumping to the conclusion that bending is banned altogether.



I never said that; you are just drawing that conclusion from my words.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Also, you're not a sniper, so you have no grounds to say they are cowards. You're American, right? That's a rather large disservice to the snipers who fought on behalf of your country.



I am an American, and I am very proud of that fact, but I believe that the government of my country is involving itself too much in the affairs of other countries and not paying sufficient attention to its own affairs. And while I am not a sniper, I have been involved in several fist-fights in my life, although most of them were when I was much younger. From those fights, I developed the belief that it is best to fight one's opponents face-to-face, to show that one has the courage to put themselves at risk by giving their opponent a chance to strike back.



Noah said:


> Sounds like a terrorist to me. One I'd have no problem popping from 200 yards out with my epic sharpened rock sniper cannon blaster.
> 
> Cowards or not, snipers are nearly always the last one laughing. You can keep your silly pride.



Pride is not the same thing as arrogance, Noah, for I have great pride in my country, and in my own abilities, but I do not believe that my country is superior to other countries, or that I am superior to other people. Similarly, I have pride when fighting or competing. While it obviously would be very foolish to reveal my strategy to my opponent, I will never strike from the shadows or when my opponent's back is turned; I will allow them to see my face so that they will know that I respect them as an opponent and, if I defeat them, the last thing that they see will be my face, so that they will have the honor of knowing who defeated them.



The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> Seargent Carlos Hathcock would strongly disagree



I certainly respect Sergeant Hathcock for his achievements, but I still find more honor in fighting openly, rather than from a hidden location, as I made clear above.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I certainly respect Sergeant Hathcock for his achievements, but I still find more honor in fighting openly, rather than from a hidden location, as I made clear above.



I forgot you only respond to logic so annoying anyway... While you are correct when fighting one on one for your own pride it is honorable to face your opponent even you have to rationalize that when more is at stake besides that one most throw away attachment to such formalities.

 man has a bomb and you have 2 options snipe him from 2500 yards or put down your gun walk the mile and a half introduce yourself and declare "prepare yourself for fisticuffs sir " oh wait he just detonated the bomb as you were setting down your gun and heading down the stairs.

a sniper is a tool of the army they are an important part of battle strategy they are what you would call a long range fighting specialist.  Just imagine if you will if someone had sniped hitler before he ordered the death of 6 million people.  One "cowardly" act for a shit ton of lives.  The logic engine that is your brain should be able to process the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.


----------



## Koi (Feb 4, 2011)

Whoa, whoa.  Godwin's Law.. in MY Avatar thread?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 4, 2011)

Yeah, Godwin's Law is _not_ permissible here. I will enforce this from here on out. This is the Avatar thread, and your Theater mod is an avatar obsessive with a History degree. I expect better.


----------



## Burke (Feb 4, 2011)

For the noobs in the forum, godwins law is... ?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 4, 2011)

Nøøps said:


> For the noobs in the forum, godwins law is... ?



Basically the longer a dicussion goes on, the more chance hitler or Nazi's will be brought up in said discussion.

But yes, can we divert from that subject


----------



## Noah (Feb 4, 2011)

Jove said:


> Yeah, Godwin's Law is _not_ permissible here. I will enforce this from here on out. This is the Avatar thread, and your Theater mod is an avatar obsessive with a History degree. I expect better.



What if we relate it to Inglorious Basterds instead of history? Dem nazzys sure know how to blow up in a theater! Amirite, fellaz?!

On a semi-related note, I've been thinking about my spiked rock sniping cannon. I don't know how effective it would be. I imagine it's just be an extra long pipe with a scope on it. So I'd set up my shot, then have to step back and punch-bend the rock out the barrel. But at that point, the target could have moved since I can't aim and fire. 

On another note, I bet my actions as a real life sniper would be the same as sniping in any game: POW! *cackle*
Respect for my opponent? Nah. He needs to spot me to get my respect.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 4, 2011)

If you can legitimately connect anything in Avatar to the National Socialist Party of 1930's and 40's Germany, I'll allow it. 

Any generalities are balderdash and unwelcome and will be deleted. Find another fascist state to reference, preferably pre or post WWII.


----------



## Noah (Feb 4, 2011)

Jove said:


> If you can legitimately connect anything in Avatar to the National Socialist Party of 1930's and 40's Germany, I'll allow it.
> 
> Any generalities are balderdash and unwelcome and will be deleted. Find another fascist state to reference, preferably pre or post WWII.



I tried really hard to tie something in Avatar to the Republicans and FOX News for about ten seconds, but I gave up and decided to just say this instead.


----------



## Koi (Feb 4, 2011)

Jove said:


> Yeah, Godwin's Law is _not_ permissible here. I will enforce this from here on out. This is the Avatar thread, and your Theater mod is an avatar obsessive with a History degree. I expect better.



Heil Der Jovek--.. 




I mean, .


Anyway, I remember reading a while ago that the Dai Li were somehow sorta based upon Chiang Kai-Shek's own elite agent force or something.  Does anyone know anything about that?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 4, 2011)

Dai Li was the name of the man that headed the more nefarious aspects of Chaing's government. He was a gloriously unscrupulous dude. I'm sure Rekky would be able to give a more detailed explanation. 

I'm not sure what exactly was the basis for the Dai Li as a force... probably a composite of any number of _____-shirt societies and forces taken from dystopian fiction.


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## VerdantVenus (Feb 4, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Snipers_ 



It's definitely not cowardly to be covering your  buddies as a sniper. They can be far safer than if you were to adhere to  your stubborn ideals, and be shoulder to shoulder with them. That kind  of thinking is what they try to drill out of you, because it costs lives  to be a righteous idiot.

And you think getting into one fistfight makes you qualified to talk at  all at length about warfare and conflict? Revoke your wisdom card,  that's 12 points way overdue.

It's hard work to be a sniper, it has a high rate of PTSD, because  snipers tend to witness firsthand of their kill, or the deaths of their  comrades. Even if they are at a distance from their enemy, it's closer  behind enemy lines than most jobs, and they're the ones who are most  likely to be killed on sight or executed as a prisoner, because they're  that "one bastard who's killing my friends". 







> On a semi-related note, I've been thinking about my spiked rock sniping  cannon. I don't know how effective it would be. I imagine it's just be  an extra long pipe with a scope on it. So I'd set up my shot, then have  to step back and punch-bend the rock out the barrel. But at that point,  the target could have moved since I can't aim and fire.


That's why you gotta lead on your target. Bend where they're going instead of where they are 

I guess you can curve it while it flies too.

Well, I can think how Ozai isn't Hitler. 

The blimps the Firenation had, weren't particularly successful, but Ozai  still used them. Whereas, Paratroopers in the Nazi army turned out to  be a large failure, and Hitler stopped the Nazi army from using them. 

Hitler mostly caused the fall of the Nazis with his crazy decisions and  unwillingness to listen to his supervisors, especially when it came to  Russia, where it was their biggest downfall because he split his army to  fight an impossible battle.

Ozai though, was not the cause of the Firenation's fall, and he made pretty brilliant plans in conquering the world.





Jove said:


> Dai Li was the name of the man that headed the more  nefarious aspects of Chaing's government. He was a gloriously  unscrupulous dude. I'm sure Rekky would be able to give a more detailed  explanation.
> 
> I'm not sure what exactly was the basis for the Dai Li as a force...  probably a composite of any number of _____-shirt societies and forces  taken from dystopian fiction.


Pretty much this.

There's a reason why they call him the Himmler of China-Oh damn you Godwin's law.

Anyways, I guess Chiang's Blue Shirt Society and the BIS together is  closer to what Avatar's Dai Li was. Like the Dai Li, they were loyal to  Chiang, and were doing intel jobs and secret police work. 

But generally, it's more taken from Orwell.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 5, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> There's a reason why they call him the Himmler of China-Oh damn you Godwin's law.



Oh no, that's perfectly acceptable, a sound and interesting bit of History, especially off the usual "REVOLUTION than some stuff than CIVIL WAR than some stuff and then WORLD WAR TWOOOO oh and stuff happened in other countries before and after us."


I always loved that Long Feng's official title was Cultural Minister. Very loaded.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 5, 2011)

Actually probably the best snipers from a bending standpoint would be air or water.  I mean air could make up a massive blow gun or something.  Water could use really sharp icicles and some hydraulics.

Sorry jove  I suppose I could have used Stalin or Pol Pot


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 5, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *Spoiler*: _Snipers_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Perhaps my earlier comment about snipers was rather rude and poorly-deliberated; if I had taken a moment to consider the scenario that you just mentioned, I would not have said such a thing. However, I myself still prefer a direct face-to-face fight, and that belief will apply in any fictional universe, as well.


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## DemonDragonJ (Feb 5, 2011)

What were the false names that Katara and Toph used to enter the party in _City of Walls and Secrets?_ I cannot recall that detail. And why did Katara need to use a false name? I can understand Toph needing to do so, as she is the daughter of a wealthy family, but at that point in the series, Katara was not well-known, so I see little reason for her to be concealing her true identity.


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## Burke (Feb 6, 2011)

At the bottom of your posts, you should be able to locate a button that says "edit".


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## Ms. Jove (Feb 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What were the false names that Katara and Toph used to enter the party in _City of Walls and Secrets?_ I cannot recall that detail. And why did Katara need to use a false name? I can understand Toph needing to do so, as she is the daughter of a wealthy family, but at that point in the series, Katara was not well-known, so I see little reason for her to be concealing her true identity.




Katara was Kwa Mei. Katara named Toph Dung. Or at least that's what it says on the transcript I read. I couldn't make it out by ear.

You can find excellent transcripts here: 


As for why Katara would need one, she has a Water Tribe name and a fake name is still better than using her real name. Considering their situation, the less traceable elements in their travels the better.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 6, 2011)

Jove said:


> Katara was Kwa Mei. Katara named Toph Dung. Or at least that's what it says on the transcript I read. I couldn't make it out by ear.
> 
> You can find excellent transcripts here:
> 
> ...


For a translation, Katara's alias sounds like hua mei (there is a very soft k sound when pronouncing hua, like Chanukkah), which means beautiful flower.

Toph is most like dun, with an added g for that bilingual bonus. Dun means a lot of things without knowing what the character used for it is.

墩=Dirt, mound, a block of stone, etc.

噸=Metric ton

蹲=Crouch, squat, idle around, loiter

All of these are dun pronounced with a long u

盾=Shield

遁=Cover, conceal (referring to oneself)

鈍=This is what Katara probably meant for Toph's alias, it means obtuse, blunt, dull, and most of all FLAT xD. The way it is written is the character for metal and the character representing a person cutting with difficulty. As in a person struggling to cut with a dull knife.

沌=Confused, chaotic, murky as in water


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## DemonDragonJ (Feb 6, 2011)

N??ps said:


> At the bottom of your posts, you should be able to locate a button that says "edit".



What does that mean? I am perfectly aware of the _edit_ function, and have used it many times, so I do not understand why you are telling me this.

As for Katara and Toph's false names, I thank Jove and Reikai Demon for their answers, and that is indeed the reason for which I suspected that Katara used a false name herself, but why would anyone in Ba Sing Se care if a member of the Water Tribe entered that party? Would they not want her to tell stories of the outside world?


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## Wan (Feb 7, 2011)

You double-posted.  If you want to say something more and there have been no more posts after yours, you should just use the edit function and add it to your last post.  Less bandwidth for the site is used that way.  It's a common policy on most forums.


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## DemonDragonJ (Feb 7, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> You double-posted.  If you want to say something more and there have been no more posts after yours, you should just use the edit function and add it to your last post.  Less bandwidth for the site is used that way.  It's a common policy on most forums.



Yes, I am aware of that, except that fourteen hours passed between my two posts, so I believe that my doing so is not a major concern. If less time had passed between my two posts, then I would indeed have edited the first post to include the content of the second post.



theonlydevice007 said:


> Fantastic work done by James Cameron He is the master



I enjoyed that movie, but you are mentioning the wrong _Avatar_ here: this thread is about _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ an animated television series that was shown on _Nickelodeon._


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## Burke (Feb 7, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> You double-posted.  If you want to say something more and there have been no more posts after yours, you should just use the edit function and add it to your last post.  Less bandwidth for the site is used that way.  It's a common policy on most forums.



The kicker is that Billy punished me for telling him so.


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 8, 2011)

> Is there ANYWHERE I can find full episodes of this show in Japanese or Chinese, I just want to get a more authentic feel while I'm watching. any links to any websites will be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!



You come across the strangest things on the Internet.


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## Ms. Jove (Feb 8, 2011)

Well, obviously they are _actually_ speaking Chinese on the show.


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## DemonDragonJ (Feb 8, 2011)

Jove said:


> Well, obviously they are _actually_ speaking Chinese on the show.



I must disagree; _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is set in a fictional universe that may be modeled after ancient China, but it is not actually ancient China, so referring to their language as Chinese is not completely accurate. The reason that we, the audience, hear it as English is likely because it is easier for the audience, and that the writers of the series did not wish to develop an artificial language for the series. The same could be said of any series set in a world modeled after medieval Europe or the _Star Wars_ universe.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 8, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I must disagree; _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is set in a fictional universe that may be modeled after ancient China, but it is not actually ancient China, so referring to their language as Chinese is not completely accurate. The reason that we, the audience, hear it as English is likely because it is easier for the audience, and that the writers of the series did not wish to develop an artificial language for the series. The same could be said of any series set in a world modeled after medieval Europe or the _Star Wars_ universe.


Ba Sing Se and Na Sing Se, Katara's and Toph's aliases, chi, the writing...They all say otherwise.


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## Ms. Jove (Feb 8, 2011)

I'm not even going to delineate this again.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Ba Sing Se and Na Sing Se, Katara's and Toph's aliases, chi, the writing...They all say otherwise.



The names and writing are clearly Chinese, but because China does not exist in the universe of this series, the word "Chinese" is not completely accurate, in my mind.


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## Nodonn (Feb 8, 2011)

Why don't you call it ''A language similiar in every single way to Chinese but because the Avatarverse does not actually have a country named China where this language originated from I refuse to actually call it Chinese'' while us normal people call it ''Chinese''.


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## Superstarseven (Feb 8, 2011)

Finally! Some news.

I always thought that comic books were a great medium to dive into for further adventures set in the Avatar world.


Since Mike and Bryan will be involved, looks like these stories will be canon. I'm looking forward to them.


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## VerdantVenus (Feb 8, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The names and writing are clearly Chinese, but because China does not exist in the universe of this series, the word "Chinese" is not completely accurate, in my mind.


Oh, so you're just splitting hairs again 

Of course we know, stop condescending to us when we already know there is a terms in canon and discussion segregation 


Nodonn said:


> Why don't you call it ''A language similiar in every single way to Chinese but because the Avatarverse does not actually have a country named China where this language originated from I refuse to actually call it Chinese'' while us normal people call it ''Chinese''.



This times a billion trillion


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 8, 2011)

Alright dammit, once again:

The write in Chinese. Not Avatar equivalent to Chinese. It's Chinese. That's a fact.

The speak English. Earth English. English peppered with random foreign words without any explanation for why, in a world with one language, some words mean other things.

But this works because that's how things are in the Avatar World. English voice, Chinese script.


----------



## Koi (Feb 8, 2011)

I personally just like to think it's been translated for the audience by a great and powerful Avatar's spiritbending capabilities.  Otherwise I feel like they do speak Chinese.  If.. that makes any god damned sense.

Kind of like how in historical dramas taking place anywhere in Europe hollywood automatically just gives all their actors an English accent, but we know they're really supposed to be speaking German, Latin, etc.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 8, 2011)

Jove said:


> Alright dammit, once again:
> 
> The write in Chinese. Not Avatar equivalent to Chinese. It's Chinese. That's a fact.
> 
> ...


Basically what Koi said.

It's not possible to get spoken English out of written Chinese or vice versa, those language systems are completely different.

Anyways, I want Avatar in Chinese not because of authenticity, but because my parents want to understand the story without me <_<


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 8, 2011)

That doesn't work. Those examples are works tied to very specific, real locations. This is a fictional place; it's totally plausible that they speak one language and write in another.

I find the notion that they are "actually speaking Chinese" to be overthinking it at best. At worst, it's balderdash. Sorry, girls.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 8, 2011)

Then what does it make of Avatar dubbed in other languages?

And as far as I know, the words are rarely random. It's usually a common convention to preserve proper nouns as they are spoken, in translated works.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Then what does it make of Avatar dubbed in other languages?



Balderdash.


Except for the Dutch dub. That's canon. Ik ben een Aardemeester. 


One thing I did just think of, though, is that it does go both ways. If it was English, why would they have Ba/Na Sing Se, etc.? But if it was Chinese, why would they have to translate it? And where does momo, a Japanese word, come in? I'm pretty sure they used some French loanwords at times, too.

Oh bloody hell, does this just come down to Rule of Cool again? >.<



But don't forget that, as M. Night pointed out, Mike and Bryan got it all wrong anyway.


----------



## Wan (Feb 8, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Finally! Some news.
> 
> I always thought that comic books were a great medium to dive into for further adventures set in the Avatar world.
> 
> ...



Ah crap.  My favorite game series Mass Effect gets a new comic series, and now Avatar is getting a published comic?  I may have to actually go to a comic book store.

I hope the comics from the canned Nickmag get in this.


----------



## Koi (Feb 8, 2011)

What about in a series like, say.. Naruto?  They speak and write in Japanese, so in the dub they speak English but any unedited text will be in Japanese.  Can't we consider Avatar sort of.. dubbed for convenience?  (I mean, it probably is just Rule of Cool, though.  It isn't really something that affects things either way, anyway.)


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 8, 2011)

Jove said:


> Balderdash.
> 
> 
> Except for the Dutch dub. That's canon. Ik ben een Aardemeester.
> ...


Well, momo is actually a word in Chinese, but it doesn't mean peach. Considering that Aang is a nomad, it's understandable that he had been familiar with other languages and cultures.

It was never said that there was only one language in Avatar.

Ba/Na Sing Se has a lampshade hung on it just to make the joke work for unfamiliar audiences, since it is foremost, an American series. I don't think the Gaang didn't get it, just thought it wasn't funny. 


If it was dubbed in Mandarin, the joke would work in a different way, but to the same effect, as a guy trying to repeat or explain it as if it will be funnier the second time around, or that it wasn't clear. Or that the dialect is unfamiliar to them. Or he spoke in poetic Chinese often used for writing to save ink and paper.

Also, the world of Avatar works differently, before the war, it seemed  that the other nations were close together, and were on and off again  for centuries. A homogenization of language is to be expected, but even  in China, where the language is homogenized, there are dialects.

Chinese is a strange language, many dialects, one written language, most know more than one dialect.

Given its setting, it would be a strong connotation that Chinese is a widely understood language, unless said otherwise by the writers. 

Obviously, the writing and spoken language correspond, like the characters for names and other proper nouns.

Of course, it was for English audiences foremost, so jokes like lettuce leaf and justice/us exist.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 8, 2011)

Koi said:


> What about in a series like, say.. Naruto?  They speak and write in Japanese, so in the dub they speak English but any unedited text will be in Japanese.  Can't we consider Avatar sort of.. dubbed for convenience?  (I mean, it probably is just Rule of Cool, though.  It isn't really something that affects things either way, anyway.)



But Avatar isn't a dub. A dub takes the original and translates it for a foreign audience; we're talking about the original work itself. Since it's an original work that uses English language and Chinese text, that's it's internal logic.

I dunno. I'm sticking with a hybrid.


Bringing Naruto into things.


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## VerdantVenus (Feb 8, 2011)

Avatar IS dubbed, every animation that has sound and speech are dubbed.

And that's beside the point, Avatar is dubbed in other languages as well, is it still english then?


----------



## Koi (Feb 8, 2011)

I'm just saying.  Why would they speak in a completely different language than the one used their writing system?  Like Rekai said, that implies that they can both read and speak Chinese, and that it's just translated for the audience.

Though really I'm pretty sure Rule of Cool is the definitive answer.


----------



## Semiotic Sacrilege (Feb 9, 2011)

Hey everyone, I just wanted to share this short Fan-fiction I made about Zuko. I really love the character and I've been thinking about writing a large Fan-fiction that would span the entire series and even some events before and after the series... all from Zuko's side of things.

I decided to write this as a preview and this is by no means final, but any feedback would be greatly appreciated...




*Spoiler*: __ 





> *Zuko: Tales of a Dishonored Prince
> Part 1: Moments Grasp, Lost in Defeat!
> *
> _Written by: Dillon Taylor
> ...


----------



## Roronoa Zoro (Feb 9, 2011)

Zuko


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 9, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Avatar IS dubbed, every animation that has sound and speech are dubbed.
> 
> And that's beside the point, Avatar is dubbed in other languages as well, is it still english then?



Well, no but let me be clear about it.
Avatar is a pre-lay animated show so whatever comes after those original voice recordings is dubbed. If Greg Baldwin is asked to come in and do some ADR for some of Mako's lines that weren't up to snuff in an episode, then those recordings were technically dubbed. Same goes for grunts or any other action noises. Those are always added in post-production. That's the key word there. Any original audio recorded purposely that's tacked onto an edited film can be considered dubbing. 

Is that what you were referring to? In that case I _suppose_ you can say that all Animated series and films include dubbed audio but really whenever mentions the term dub they're almost always referring to the language track.
As an aspiring Voice actor, I always use the term in that sense.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 9, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well, no but let's get specific here.
> Avatar is a pre-lay animated show so whatever comes after those original voice recordings is dubbed. If Greg Baldwin is asked to come in and do some ADR for some of Mako's lines that weren't up to snuff in an episode, then those recordings were technically dubbed. Same goes for grunts or any other action noises. Those are always added in post-production. That's the key word there. Any original audio recorded purposely that's tacked onto an edited film can be considered dubbing.
> 
> Is that what you were referring to? In that case I _suppose_ you can say that all Animated series and films include dubbed audio but really whenever mentions the term dub they're almost always referring to the language track.
> As an aspiring Voice actor, I always use the term in that sense.



I recall that on one installment of _Hey! Answerman!_ on _Anime News Network,_ the Answerman stated that with any animation, either Japanese or western, the voices and sound effects are recorded after the art and animation are completed. Why is that practice done? By doing that, the options for voice-acting are restricted, as the actors must conform their lines to the animation. Would it not make more sense to first record the voices and sound effects, which would give the actors far greater freedom to say whatever they wish to say, as the animation would then need to match the voices, not the other way around?


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 9, 2011)

This _Answerman_ is very much wrong, man. I'm familiar with Western animation so I will say that 99.9% of the time, the voices are recorded first. Occasionally the actor will be called in after the animation has come back from Korea and will be asked to record a scream, grunt or sound relative to the action they're seeing on the screen. Although you'll only see mouth flaps, I'm sure Japanimation (going old school) works the same way.
The Japanese actors for Dragonball Kai for example are dubbing in their performances because the producers are scrubbing all the original audio for those original 20 year old episodes. But the dialogue for those shows were originally recorded and animated to the performances and those awesome screams were added in after the animation was brought back and edited.

Voice acting is an interesting profession.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 9, 2011)

Is it even feasible to animate first? It would be a technical nightmare, I'd imagine.




ReikaiDemon said:


> Avatar IS dubbed, every animation that has sound and speech are dubbed.



Yes, it's dubbed as per the definition of the word dub I wasn't even referring to.  Calling the original voice acting dubbed is like calling an episode of an original series in any context "filler." 

Yeah, I'M GOING THERE, REKKY! WHO GIVES A FUCK ANYMORE? MBXX TRASHED OUR MONOLITH THREAD LET JUST POST LIKE FUCKING ANIMALS FUCKING!




ReikaiDemon said:


> And that's beside the point, Avatar is dubbed in other languages as well, is it still english then?



I'm not really sure what point you and Koi are trying to make. Dubbing for a foreign audience is about utility. Networks could simply subtitle it, but for obvious reasons they do not.* 

If Avatar is like, _conceptually_ dubbed so that the characters speak English... then we're really reaching break point. 

But we're talking about the original work itself. Mike and Bryan speak American English. Unless they are more pretentious than they've ever let on, the show was conceived in their heads with English speaking characters. I tend to side with that. They wanted Chinese script, but the characters speak their language. It doesn't make sense by our anthropological alignment, but it does in theirs.


I actually think it adds to the depth. I dunno, maybe at some point English became the lingua franca of the Avatarverse centuries ago. 







*Except in the Netherlands, where they just subtitle anything in English. If you're familiar with the Dutch, that would be obvious as well. With kid's show, though, they do dub, though. I know, I need to shut the fuck up about the Netherlands.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 9, 2011)

I remember from the commentary on the Finding Nemo dvd that they recorded the voices first so the mannerisms of the actor could be used in the animation.
I'm sure this is relevant in some way 


Used to be they subtitled kids shows as well over here, nowadays everything gets a shitty dub 
Ever seen one of those horrible live action Disney shows with a dub that's both horribly written, doesn't even care about syncing up with mouth flabs and is delivered by horrible actors?
*shudders*


----------



## Koi (Feb 9, 2011)

^Standard practice in animation.  I'm not sure it had very much bearing upon Avatar, though.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 9, 2011)

Nodonn, you're Dutch? 

My fiancee lives in Groningen. It's my favorite city in the World. I got to watch an episode of Avatar visiting her grandparents in Veendam. The Blind Bandit. I thought the acting was pretty good.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 9, 2011)

I am, and Groningen is awesome. Really open and free unlike claustrophobic Amsterdam.

The Avatar dub isn't bad in any way and the show itself can carry a mediocre dub easily anyway. The problem is in the shows that exist in the space between mediocre and fucking horrible, we just don't have enough decent voice actors to make it work.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 9, 2011)

On a side note, here is a new photo album from Konietzko's website. He went to Yosemite National Park in December and the pictures are transcendent.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 9, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> This _Answerman_ is very much wrong, man. I'm familiar with Western animation so I will say that 99.9% of the time, the voices are recorded first. Occasionally the actor will be called in after the animation has come back from Korea and will be asked to record a scream, grunt or sound relative to the action they're seeing on the screen. Although you'll only see mouth flaps, I'm sure Japanimation (going old school) works the same way.
> The Japanese actors for Dragonball Kai for example are dubbing in their performances because the producers are scrubbing all the original audio for those original 20 year old episodes. But the dialogue for those shows were originally recorded and animated to the performances and those awesome screams were added in after the animation was brought back and edited.
> 
> Voice acting is an interesting profession.



That is fascinating, SuperStarSeven, but also refreshing to hear, as I do believe that recording the voices first is better for an animated series, as that gives the voice actors and script writers greater freedom for the characters' lines.

I wished to pursue a career in voice acting at one point, as I like to be very dramatic in my speech at times and believe that I have some talent for altering my voice, but I decided that that was not my ideal career path, as it is a very "hit-or-miss" career, where one must be very skilled to succeed.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Feb 9, 2011)

Damn, I didn't realize that my subscription to this thread died with the pruning. I was wondering why it hadn't updated in so long. 

So what did I miss?

Oh, and since I've been gone, I don't know if this has been reported yet. 





> Following the breakout success of last year’s Avatar: The Last Airbender — The Art of the Animated Series, Dark Horse is proud to collaborate with Nickelodeon on a comprehensive publishing program built around this beloved and exciting Emmy-winning animated series!
> 
> The first installment of this new series will be released on Free Comic Book Day, May 7, with two introductory short stories — including the unpublished tale “Relics” and the iconic Dirty Is Only Skin Deep... This free comic will be packaged with Lucasfilm’s Star Wars: The Clone Wars in a special flip-book comic, available only at your local comic book shop.
> 
> ...



Bolded the part I'm most excited about. We might finally get an answer as to Ursa and Azula's fates.


----------



## Koi (Feb 9, 2011)

Hopefully they're good stories.  And not like the crap in the kids' novel things. \:


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 9, 2011)

The confusion over whether Animation or Voices coming first goes back a long way. The opening scene in Mrs. Doubtfire of Robin Williams in a studio providing his voice to a Chuck Jones cartoon didn't help. VO is very hit-or-miss because it's show business. It'd be like anyone telling you that they want to be a professional singer or a working actor. Just as much competition in the field. I wouldn't start auditioning for real until I'm as good or better than all the people getting work right now.


Also, Yeah I posted that info on page 227. Nobody really cared for some reason. Koi those books you were referring to were written for the intended audience in mind. If you didn't know, Avatar's main demographic is supposed to be Boy ages 7-11. Dark Horse doesn't publish anything for that age group. The Art book was most certainly meant to be bought by the much older fans of the show who could appreciate the work that went into creating it.

The Nick comics are much more juvenile but once they get into events set during the time after Ozai's defeat, the quality should be on the same level as the show itself especially with Mike and Bryan contributing. They'll most likely either write the first issue or hand off a list of ideas with someone else handling the writing.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Feb 9, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The _Gargoyles_ comic series published by Slave Labor Graphics had far less restrictions and far greater freedom than did the television series, such as more intense violence, stronger language, and greater suggestive and sexual content. I hope that the same applies to this series, and with Dark Horse Comics as the publisher, a company that is known for dark and intense series, I believe that there is a good chance for the same freedom to be applied to this series, as well.



Haven't we had this discussion with you, like, several dozen times already; Sex, violence and naugty language *does not equal maturity. *

I would actually argue that it tends to have the opposite effect. 

Only 14 year old boys (and those of an equal mental maturity) are the types that think these things actually make something "better".


----------



## Bolt Crank (Feb 9, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> > Following the breakout success of last year?s Avatar: The Last Airbender ? The Art of the Animated Series, Dark Horse is proud to collaborate with Nickelodeon on a comprehensive publishing program built around this beloved and exciting Emmy-winning animated series!
> >
> > The first installment of this new series will be released on Free Comic Book Day, May 7, with two introductory short stories ? including the unpublished tale ?Relics? and the iconic Dirty Is Only Skin Deep... This free comic will be packaged with Lucasfilm?s Star Wars: The Clone Wars in a special flip-book comic, available only at your local comic book shop.
> >
> ...


----------



## Noah (Feb 9, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Haven't we had this discussion with you, like, several dozen times already; Sex, violence and naugty language *does not equal maturity. *
> 
> I would actually argue that it tends to have the opposite effect.
> 
> Only 14 year old boys (and those of an equal mental maturity) are the types that think these things actually make something "better".



Whoa, whoa, WHOA! Are you trying to say that having 22 pages each month of Zuko slicing people up and graphically burning them isn't mature?! Or that a 6 issue arc about Sokka grabbing titties and smacking asses is immature?! No way man!

Just imagine the rape scene when Ty Lee first disables Sokka! And then Katara.....

SO MUCH MATURE MATERIAL CAN BE MADE!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 9, 2011)

That's the New Adventures, Noah.

_As the Gaang matures and their intellect grows wider and more shrewd, they gradually realize that winners get away with rape. Literally. Like, sexually assaulting people. Follow Aang and his beloved friends as they continue their adventures, traveling across the Avatar World once more, and once again raping the fuck out of everything in their path. But again: literally!_


----------



## Koi (Feb 9, 2011)

Maybe we'll even get an appearance from a dickwolf!  I mean, it's the Avatar universe.  Hybrid animals abound!


----------



## Semiotic Sacrilege (Feb 9, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> This _Answerman_ is very much wrong, man. I'm familiar with Western animation so I will say that 99.9% of the time, the voices are recorded first. Occasionally the actor will be called in after the animation has come back from Korea and will be asked to record a scream, grunt or sound relative to the action they're seeing on the screen. Although you'll only see mouth flaps, I'm sure Japanimation (going old school) works the same way.
> The Japanese actors for Dragonball Kai for example are dubbing in their performances because the producers are scrubbing all the original audio for those original 20 year old episodes. But the dialogue for those shows were originally recorded and animated to the performances and those awesome screams were added in after the animation was brought back and edited.
> 
> Voice acting is an interesting profession.



I can confirm this as well. I'm also an aspiring voice actor, and Yuri Lowenthal & Tera Platt wrote a book called "Voice Acting Voice-Over: What it's like behind the mic". Awesome book, and this subject is covered pretty well if I remember correctly. There is also an interview on youtube where the actors of Avatar and the creator, or VO director, or somebody else that's important, mention that all the voices are recorded first, and then if the animation doesn't come to match those voices, the actors will go back in and re-record their lines to match the animation better. Grunts and other sound effects from fighting and falling, etc., ARE done AFTER the animation is completed though. The voices are always originally done first however.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 9, 2011)

All jesting aside, the restrictions actually benefit Avatar.

And even without the restrictions, it would betray the spirit of the series to throw "shit" in.

Besides, wouldn't it complicate the matters of language in Avatar further?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 9, 2011)

Basically, anything kids think they're cool for liking because it makes them feel grown up
_
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]Critics  who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely  descriptive term, cannot be adults themselves. To be concerned about  being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush  at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of  childhood and adolescence.... [/FONT][/FONT]_
~C.S. Lewis.


----------



## Burke (Feb 9, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> All jesting aside, the restrictions actually benefit Avatar.
> 
> And even without the restrictions, it would betray the spirit of the series to throw "shit" in.
> 
> Besides, wouldn't it complicate the matters of language in Avatar further?



Even worse, literal feces.


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 9, 2011)

I do know that Jet's death was supposed be much more graphic than it was. According to the creators it was one of the only instances where Nick stepped in an asked to change something. What I don't understand, and please answer if you know, is why they seemingly wussed out on describing how Jet was originally supposed to die. Mike or Bryan didn't go further beyond saying that Nick execs requesting the change at a Comic-Con panel and another instance where they stopped dead in their tracks during the Lake Laogai commentary.

??? Would Nickelodeon really disallow them from talking about a scene change publicly?
You know I just realized while I was writing this that Giancarlo Volpe has been there from the beginning and no longer works for Nick. If I find out, I'll post it here.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 10, 2011)

All right, so having extreme violence, sexuality, or vulgar language does not make a series mature, and _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is quite good as it is, but I would not mind seeing at least some bloodshed, as it did strain my suspension of disbelief that the series centers on a _war_ and contains depictions of _genocide,_ yet the characters seemed to not suffer grave injuries or mutilations to their bodies, apart from Zuko's or Aang's scars.

With that being said, why did Azula not immediately attack Katara after striking Aang in _Crossroads of Destiny?_ Katara was obviously too surprised to defend herself, and doing so would have prevented her from healing Aang, which in turn would likely have prevented Aang from recovering. And on that subject, how did Aang enter the Avatar State during his battle against Ozai? I recall that Guru Pathik told Aang that his (Aang's) material attachments, and his unwillingness to renounce them, would prevent him from doing so, so was Aang able to enter the Avatar State because of the dire and desperate situation in which he was?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Feb 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> With that being said, why did Azula not immediately attack Katara after striking Aang in _Crossroads of Destiny?_ Katara was obviously too surprised to defend herself, and doing so would have prevented her from healing Aang, which in turn would likely have prevented Aang from recovering.


Azula was reveling in her triumph at that point. Plus, she wasn't aware that death could be healed with water from the Spirit Oasis or that Katara had such water.


> And on that subject, how did Aang enter the Avatar State during his battle against Ozai? I recall that Guru Pathik told Aang that his (Aang's) material attachments, and his unwillingness to renounce them, would prevent him from doing so, so was Aang able to enter the Avatar State because of the dire and desperate situation in which he was?


Aang unlocked his final chakra right before Azula struck him with lightning. However, the lightning twisted his chakra, preventing him from accessing the Avatar State until the rock hit him.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 10, 2011)

You know, as far as Jet's death goes, I think Nick made the right call. Jet's death is much more memorable due to the ambiguousness of it. Sometimes an officious administrative presence can help, can inspire the artist to think more creatively. Obviously, I'm thinking of Blur as a clear example.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 10, 2011)

Robin's Reckoning benefited a lot from Standards and Practices


----------



## Castiel (Feb 10, 2011)

Officla Avatar "Season 4" comic announced, the creators are backing it.


I'm hopeful, Dark Horse usually does good with licenses, if say IDW or some other company were doing it I'd be cautious.

edit: lol jove told me I was late


----------



## Bender (Feb 10, 2011)

Jove said:


> You know, as far as Jet's death goes, I think Nick made the right call. Jet's death is much more memorable due to the ambiguousness of it. Sometimes an officious administrative presence can help, can inspire the artist to think more creatively. Obviously, I'm thinking of Blur as a clear example.



I agree. The ambiguity of Jet's death drew more attention than it being shown. Honestly, though I can't imagine Avatar The Last Airbender being dyed in blood.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 11, 2011)

Wow am I crazy slow just found out the girl who plays Roxy Ricter (evil ex 4) in Scott Pilgrim vs the World is the chick who does Katara's voice mind=blown.

So trying to picture katara saying she is bi-furious


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 11, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> Wow am I crazy slow just found out the girl who plays Roxy Ricter (evil ex 4) in Scott Pilgrim vs the World is the chick who does Katara's voice mind=blown.
> 
> So trying to picture katara saying she is bi-furious


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 12, 2011)

I've followed Mae's career from a child actress on a delightful little show called _State Of Grace_ (also starring Alia Shawkat) that aired on Fox Family-all the way to her role on _Parenthood_.


----------



## Burke (Feb 12, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> Wow am I crazy slow just found out the girl who plays Roxy Ricter (evil ex 4) in Scott Pilgrim vs the World is the chick who does Katara's voice mind=blown.
> 
> So trying to picture katara saying she is bi-furious



Ive only said it openly here twice.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 12, 2011)

I have not seen _Scott Pilgrim versus the World,_ but I have heard of it, and it seems to be a most interesting movie, and if one of the actors from _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is in it, I would be interested to see how their character in that movie is different from their character in this series.

Also, that video that Reikai Demon posted reminded me that, in the final episode, when Ty Lee stated that she "bonded" with the Kyoshi warriors in prison, I found that statement to be very suggestive, and her broad grim when she said that line certainly lent credence to such thoughts. Did anyone else here find that line to be suggestive, as well, or am I again allowing my imagination to cause me to see things that are not truly there?


----------



## Gunners (Feb 12, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, that video that Reikai Demon posted reminded me that, in the final episode, when Ty Lee stated that she "bonded" with the Kyoshi warriors in prison, I found that statement to be very suggestive, and her broad grim when she said that line certainly lent credence to such thoughts. Did anyone else here find that line to be suggestive, as well, *or am I again allowing my imagination to cause me to see things that are not truly there?*


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 12, 2011)

Is stupidity a bannable offense?


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 12, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Ive only said it openly here twice.



Yeah but in my defense on my setup there are 230 pages in this thread  which = 4600 posts and I am not reading through all of them to find your 2 posts but here is some rep congrats


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 12, 2011)

I think someone needs a bit more dedication to the thread, I think.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 12, 2011)

Jove said:


> I think someone needs a bit more dedication to the thread, I think.



Why the hate Jove, Why the Hate?  It is V-day on Monday after all can't we just kiss and make up


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 12, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> Why the hate Jove, Why the Hate?  It is V-day on Monday after all can't we just kiss and make up


Only I can kiss Jove


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 12, 2011)

but what about Pilaf


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 12, 2011)

He hasn't been around for a month


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 12, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> Is stupidity a bannable offense?



I was not aware that being fond of female homosexuality was considered to be "stupid." And no, stupidity is not a bannable offense, to the best of my knowledge; as appealing as the idea may be, "stupidity" is a very subjective term, so making it a crime would lead to many difficult situations. Additionally, if you do not like my posts, you can simply ignore them, as I am not forcing you to read them.


Are you saying that either A: you take everything at face value, and never attempt to find a deeper meaning in anything; or B: that you do not find the idea of female homosexuality to be appealing (presuming that you are a heterosexual male, of course)?


----------



## Gunners (Feb 12, 2011)

> Are you saying that either A: you take everything at face value, and never attempt to find a deeper meaning in anything; or B: that you do not find the idea of female homosexuality to be appealing (presuming that you are a heterosexual male, of course)?


Or C: You are again allowing your imagination to cause you to see things that are not truly there.

It's not hard to figure out what I was ''attempting'' to say seeing as I highlighted the part of your post that expressed my belief.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 12, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Or C: You are again allowing your imagination to cause you to see things that are not truly there.
> 
> It's not hard to figure out what I was ''attempting'' to say seeing as I highlighted the part of your post that expressed my belief.



Very well, I cannot argue with that, so I shall not attempt to; however, I still am certain that I cannot be the only person to have had such thoughts regarding that scene. Actually, I did not give that line any further thought until I saw it mentioned on the "Fetish Fuel" page at _TV Tropes,_ so there is proof that someone else, apart from myself, found Ty Lee's line to be suggestive.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 14, 2011)

*HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY, AVATAR THREAD*


----------



## Castiel (Feb 15, 2011)

Solicit





> *AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER—THE LOST ADVENTURES
> 
> Aaron Ehasz (W), Josh Hamilton (W), Tim Hedrick (W), Dave Roman (W), J. Torres (W), Joaquim Dos Santos (A), Elsa Garagarza (A), Gurihiru (A), Corey Lewis (A), Johane Matte (W/A), Ethan Spaulding (A), and others*
> 
> ...


----------



## Burke (Feb 15, 2011)

Got those comics were uninteresting 
I really hated the one where they had like an OC contest, and decicded some gothic chick who made a "shadow bending" character should be one of the winners -_-
needless to say i lost respect


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 15, 2011)

I don't think that those comics were meant for the older crowd who watched the series. They're lighthearted, goofier and never get into the seriousness of the war. The new proposed comics will most likely be the complete opposite of that, which I welcome, otherwise it'd be a comedy title.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 15, 2011)

Yeah this collection is mainly to collect the stuff that's already been out/shit they never published, before they go to Season 4.


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## Koi (Feb 16, 2011)

Comic preview!
Amazon.co.uk


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## Ms. Jove (Feb 16, 2011)

News from the Track Team:



> and we're still working on getting the ATLA soundtrack released! trust us, if we could have it out tomorrow, we would!!





> there are still no concrete plans to release the ATLA soundtrack. nickelodeon has to give permission


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 16, 2011)

Koi said:


> Comic preview!
> Link removed




*Spoiler*: __ 



I just read the preview, and while it was interesting, it was far too similar to the instance of Zhao capturing Aang in the television series for my liking; however, that was only a preview, so perhaps the full story will be more original than what little was shown.


----------



## FeiHong (Feb 16, 2011)

Koi said:


> Comic preview!
> Link removed



Wait is this the one that's suppose to be right after the final episode?


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## Ms. Jove (Feb 16, 2011)

It's a bit too similar to how Zhao caught Aang in the film for my liking.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Feb 16, 2011)

Little more news:





> here are the writers on Lost Adventures… Aaron Ehasz, Josh Hamilton, Tim Hedrick, Johane Matte, Dave Roman, J. Torres, and others.
> 
> Here are the artists… Joaquim Dos Santos, Elsa Garagarza, Gurihiru, Corey Lewis, Johane Matte, Ethan Spaulding, and others, with Bryan Konietzko as cover artist.



So yeah, it's shaping up to look pretty good.


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## Superstarseven (Feb 16, 2011)

Jove said:


> It's a bit too similar to how Zhao caught Aang in the film for my liking.



That's pretty scary. You should probably blame parallel thinking for that.
I'm looking forward to reading the Kuzon and Aang story. Aang probably has a wealth of adventures from traveling around the world before he was frozen, definitely some good material waiting to be tapped into there.


----------



## Koi (Feb 17, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _CATBENDING_ 





I do this _all the time._


----------



## Time Expired (Feb 17, 2011)

^  that's hysterical - I do it all the time myself.


----------



## Burke (Feb 17, 2011)

Jove said:


> It's a bit too similar to how Zhao caught Aang in the film for my liking.



eh dont worry, one they get into telling what happened after the end of the show, then itll actually matter 



FeiHong said:


> Wait is this the one that's suppose to be right after the final episode?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 17, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I'm looking forward to reading the Kuzon and Aang story. Aang probably has a wealth of adventures from traveling around the world before he was frozen, definitely some good material waiting to be tapped into there.



Perhaps that is true, but remember that Aang was born during the middle of a war and that he spent much of his early life in the Southern Air Temple; then he froze himself in ice at the age of only twelve years for an entire century. I am certain that he had adventures from before he was frozen, but I doubt that he had as many as would be expected from a character who had been alive for an entire century. However, I also would like to learn more about Aang's friend Kuzon, why he was so special to Aang that Aang used his name, and if he is still alive, as is Bumi.


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## Ms. Jove (Feb 17, 2011)

You mean that he was born before the beginning of the War.


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## DemonDragonJ (Feb 17, 2011)

Jove said:


> You mean that he was born before the beginning of the War.



A minor technicality, in my opinion, because had Sozin not already started to make movements toward conquering the other nations at that time?


----------



## ElementX (Feb 17, 2011)

Hey. Guess what?


It's February. And we still don't know what Korra's face looks like


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> A minor technicality, in my opinion, because had Sozin not already started to make movements toward conquering the other nations at that time?



But then Roku intimidated him and forced him to cease. 

The minor technicality is quite major, since the whole point is that Aang never knew of the war, despite traveling the world as a nomad and presumptive Avatar.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 17, 2011)

Jove said:


> But then Roku intimidated him and forced him to cease.
> 
> The minor technicality is quite major, since the whole point is that Aang never knew of the war, despite traveling the world as a nomad and presumptive Avatar.



Yes, that does make sense.



ElementX said:


> Hey. Guess what?
> 
> 
> It's February. And we still don't know what Korra's face looks like



Is that bad? The premiere of the new series is still nine months into the future, so I do not imagine that there is any reason to be upset over such a fact. I myself am hoping that Korra will be a descendant of Sokka and Suki and therefore bear at least a slight resemble to Katara, Kya, or Kanna.


----------



## ElementX (Feb 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is that bad? The premiere of the new series is still nine months into the future, so I do not imagine that there is any reason to be upset over such a fact. I myself am hoping that Korra will be a descendant of Sokka and Suki and therefore bear at least a slight resemble to Katara, Kya, or Kanna.



I mean they have plenty of time, true. But it wouldn't hurt to throw a bone at the fans, especially since they released the Korra pic last summer.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 18, 2011)

I'd actually be really excited if they held back on everything until SDCC. We'd have an insane summer in anticipation of the premiere. And it would be pretty charming to maintain a leakfree operation in 2011.


Though it is proper to point out that A:tLA originally was supposed to air in Fall 2004 and was pushed back to Feb 2005.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 21, 2011)

There's not enough President's Day Avatar fanart. Like, none.


----------



## Terra Branford (Feb 21, 2011)

I didn't want to disappoint myself even more by peaking into this thread until August, but I had a feeling something happened.

Looks like I got disappointed. 



ElementX said:


> It's February. And we still don't know what Korra's face looks like


----------



## Heloves (Feb 22, 2011)

I know you guys are anticipating an awesome new series premier of Avatar..but let me just warn you about the possibility...Dragon Ball GT... ... so I hope this doesn't end up like some other famous anime franchises that blew it with the sequel...just expressing my worries


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Feb 22, 2011)

Except that GT was put together by the corporation that owned the "Dragon Ball" name for the sole purpose of making more money.  Toriyama (probably not spelled right), the guy who created DBZ, had nothing to do with it and was actually against it being made. 

With Korra, it was the original creators who got the ball rolling, who are writing the story, and who are in control of the project.  In fact, other then them, they've also re-assembled almost the entire team from the first series to work on this one. 

Other than being a sequel series, there _are_ no parallels between this and DBGT.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 23, 2011)

I have heard that _Avatar: The Legend of Korra_ is supposed to last for only twelve episodes, far fewer than the original series. However, what possibility may there be that if the series is sufficiently popular, it will be extended beyond its projected twelve-episode duration?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 23, 2011)

That depends on whether this was a decision by Mike and Bryan or simply an order by Nick.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 24, 2011)

Jove said:


> That depends on whether this was a decision by Mike and Bryan or simply an order by Nick.



Forgive me for asking such a question, but how is such a factor important in this situation?


----------



## Noah (Feb 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Forgive me for asking such a question, but how is such a factor important in this situation?



....really?

If Mike and Bryan say they only want the story to be 12 episodes, then that means they're writing a story built to fit 12 episodes. If Nick orderer more episodes, then a lot of things would be shoe-horned in, and a lot of canon filler would have to be developed for the story. This happens to TV shows like LOST, where it was written to be only 5 seasons of 20 episodes. Then ABC tried to milk the cash cow and it ended up being stretched to, what, 130? That's how we get episodes like the Nikki and Paulo episode.

If Nick put the limit on, then it's possible M&B had a larger story that has to be cut down. Then, if Nick asks for more partway through, they have existing canon material to fill in the space instead of coming up with stuff. It'd be almost like a director's cut.

Imagine 'The Great Divide', which ultimately had no bearing on the original Avatar as a whole. If M&B were suddenly forced to add more episodes to their planned story, we'd get a lot more like that.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 25, 2011)

The best case scenario is that this is just the next part of the Avatar story. That Nick will allow M&B to tell a number of stories. Aang's story was 61 chapters, Korra's is 12. The next one could be 6, could be 16, could be 76.

The downside is that Nick is notorious with screwing them on pickups. Korra shouldn't even have been an issue; it should have been pre-emptively green-lit. But it wasn't, and Mike and Bryan still have to "pitch" ideas, even if it's just perfunctory.

Which isn't a problem... except that it takes so long to make episodes that any delay leads to big gaps. Korra will air over 3 full years after Airbender completed. So let's say Korra does well enough to warrant another Avatar story... it might too late for another story because M&B might not be up for taking another 3 years of their lives for one project.

But maybe M&B have decided that Avatar is their legacy, and they'll go with it as long as they can. We can hope.


----------



## Palpatine (Feb 25, 2011)

A new mini series...

I was actually totally unaware of this until now.


----------



## Heloves (Feb 25, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Except that GT was put together by the corporation that owned the "Dragon Ball" name for the sole purpose of making more money.  Toriyama (probably not spelled right), the guy who created DBZ, had nothing to do with it and was actually against it being made.
> 
> With Korra, it was the original creators who got the ball rolling, who are writing the story, and who are in control of the project.  In fact, other then them, they've also re-assembled almost the entire team from the first series to work on this one.
> 
> Other than being a sequel series, there _are_ no parallels between this and DBGT.



Well at least I know more info that I did before thanks


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 25, 2011)

I want screens/trailer of this new show already! lol


----------



## Jena (Feb 25, 2011)

Is it just me, or does it seem like it's taking an extremely long time for the Legend of Korra to be released?

I remember seeing that promo image of her standing in front of the city before the movie [ofwhichweshallnotspeak] came out.

Er-wait, I guess that was only a year ago. So maybe it hasn't been quite that long. It just feels like a really long time because I'm going through Avatar withdrawal.


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 25, 2011)

Korra seems to be going at a normal pace. It hasn't been a full year yet but it will be when the show starts airing. Although we all saw that concept art during the summer of 2010, we don't know how long after final approval was given on character designs, when the scripts were written, the show was casted, and when Korea started the animation. So combining that with the 9 months it takes to animate an episode and then the ADR, sound design, and music that needs to be added--13 or 14 months seems pretty reasonable.


----------



## Burke (Feb 25, 2011)

Jove said:


> The best case scenario is that this is just the next part of the Avatar story. That Nick will allow M&B to tell a number of stories. Aang's story was 61 chapters, Korra's is 12. The next one could be 6, could be 16, could be 76.
> 
> The downside is that Nick is notorious with screwing them on pickups. Korra shouldn't even have been an issue; it should have been pre-emptively green-lit. But it wasn't, and Mike and Bryan still have to "pitch" ideas, even if it's just perfunctory.
> 
> ...



Another determining factor in all of this is the effective dumming down of cartoons these days especially in CN and Nick. I really dont see the situation improving as time goes on.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 25, 2011)

Noah said:


> ....really?
> 
> If Mike and Bryan say they only want the story to be 12 episodes, then that means they're writing a story built to fit 12 episodes. If Nick orderer more episodes, then a lot of things would be shoe-horned in, and a lot of canon filler would have to be developed for the story. This happens to TV shows like LOST, where it was written to be only 5 seasons of 20 episodes. Then ABC tried to milk the cash cow and it ended up being stretched to, what, 130? That's how we get episodes like the Nikki and Paulo episode.
> 
> ...



Yes, that does make sense to me; I am not familiar with _Lost,_ but I have seen that phenomenon occur in other television series, so I am familiar with it.

As for _The Great Divide,_ I do not understand why so many people dislike that episode. While it is true that it did not advance the overall plot of the series, it did help to add depth and realism to the world of the series by focusing on tribes of people who were not connected to the main characters, and I like episodes in any series that take a respite from focusing on the main characters to instead focus on minor characters.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Feb 25, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Another determining factor in all of this is the effective dumming down of cartoons these days especially in CN and Nick. I really dont see the situation improving as time goes on.



The "dumbing down" of... anything really, is a complete myth.  The problem stem from 2 main factors.

1) the fact that when we look at the past we tend to only remember the things we liked, and forget the things we didn't.  

2) This same phenomena is also a cultural one. A good example would be that of listening to a "Classic Rock" radio station.  You can sit there, listening to all that great old music and it's so easy to think to yourself, man music used to be so much better, but it wasn't. When you listen to a classic 70's music station, it's not like you're getting a random selection of all the music that played in the 70's. You're getting a ransom selection of only the best songs from the 70's.  That stuff that we've held onto as a culture _because it was good._

The truth is, there was just as many shitty songs on the radio in the 70 as there is now, but no one remembers those shitty songs, and the fact that no one remembers the shitty songs makes us look at the past with rose tinted glasses and mistakenly think that all this stuff was better in the past simply because we don't bother keeping a mental record of all the we didn't like. 

Here,  does a better job of explaining what I'm trying to get at. 



> There are two things that skew our cultural memory on things like music.
> 
> First of all, you have the fact that the crap from previous eras gets forgotten, leaving only the great stuff behind. Those songs on classic rock stations are obviously cherry-picked as the best and most indicative of an entire era; it's not a random sampling of all the music available at the time. Modern rock or pop stations, on the other hand, have to play whatever's come out in the past six months or so.
> 
> So there is a filter applied to the old stuff. Even most of the music in Mozart's day was bullshit. And because it was bullshit, nobody felt the need to keep copies. And what was preserved isn't played today. Because it's bullshit. So it's easy to look back at Mozart's era (or the 1960s, or whatever) and assume that because only the classics survive in our memory, everything made back then was a classic.


----------



## Noah (Feb 25, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> As for _The Great Divide,_ I do not understand why so many people dislike that episode. While it is true that it did not advance the overall plot of the series, it did help to add depth and realism to the world of the series by focusing on tribes of people who were not connected to the main characters, and I like episodes in any series that take a respite from focusing on the main characters to instead focus on minor characters.



Right. But what happens to the story as a whole if it were to be removed? Absolutely nothing. That's what would happen if M&B made the length decision, but Nick convinced them to make more. We'd get episodes that expand on main characters, side characters, and the overall world. I'm sure they wouldn't be bad episodes, but they'd be unnecessary, just like The Great Divide. It's not bad, it's just unnecessary.


----------



## Burke (Feb 25, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> The "dumbing down" of... anything really, is a complete myth.  The problem stem from 2 main factors.
> 
> 1) the fact that when we look at the past we tend to only remember the things we liked, and forget the things we didn't.
> 
> ...



lol, I actually read that exact article. I love cracked.
But have you seen the connection with new shows? Flapjack, the regular show, MAD, new seasons of spongebob.
Theyve even started saying 'crap' on CN pretty often.
Im hindsight, dumming down wasnt the best terminology.
They are catering as they always do to the newest generation of children. I am less mad at the stations as i am at this new generation. I fear that they will grow and care not for story or character development, but only random, poorly placed potty humor.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 25, 2011)

N??ps said:


> lol, I actually read that exact article. I love cracked.
> But have you seen the connection with new shows? Flapjack, the regular show, MAD, new seasons of spongebob.
> Theyve even started saying 'crap' on CN pretty often.
> Im hindsight, dumming down wasnt the best terminology.
> They are catering as they always do to the newest generation of children. I am less mad at the stations as i am at this new generation. I fear that they will grow and care not for story or character development, but only random, poorly placed potty humor.


Ugh, MAD is complete garbage, and not even FUNNY garbage. Just lazy shit that dares to call itself comedy.


----------



## Burke (Feb 25, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Ugh, MAD is complete garbage, and not even FUNNY garbage. Just lazy shit that dares to call itself comedy.



Exactly! But when the majority of pre teens love said garbage, what do you think they will go for. . .

Lets hope they never lose sight of Mike and Bryan's greatness.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 26, 2011)

It's always going to be an uphill battle for Mike and Bryan, and it was the whole time with the first show. Lest we forget the dilemmas that were a consistent part of the Avatar:the Last Airbender experience: episodes pushed back a week without any notification, a complete abandonment of the show by the network, etc.

We were lucky to get the first show, mainly because Eric Coleman loved M&B and no one could go over his head if he wanted a show made by them, which he did.

So if  a Coleman-less Nick pursued Korra, we should take that for what it is: a promising sign.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 27, 2011)

On the subject of trends in western animation recently, I do agree with Stab-O-Tron that nostalgia may cause a person to have a skewed view of their own past; I myself have a preference for western animated series from the 1990's, having lived my childhood during that decade. However, I also agree with N??ps that there have been changes in western animation recently. I have watched a number of episodes from recent western animated series, and in some, but not all, of them, I have noticed a greater prevalence of crude humor, less realistic violence, and a lack of complex themes, such as death or moral ambiguity. Of course, not all recent western animated series are like this, with _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ being a noteworthy example of a series that "respects the viewers' intelligence," as I prefer to phrase it, but the trend is still rather bothersome to me, nevertheless.

On that subject, I noticed that in _Teen Titans,_ the concept of death was usually avoided, and even words such as "death" and "die" were rarely spoken, while _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ did not have this problem. Why is that? Why with this series able to have greater freedom to discuss such subjects when another western animated series from the same decade with a similar concept and target demographic did not?


----------



## Gunners (Feb 27, 2011)

> lol, I actually read that exact article. I love cracked.
> But have you seen the connection with new shows? Flapjack, the regular show, MAD, new seasons of spongebob.
> Theyve even started saying 'crap' on CN pretty often.
> Im hindsight, dumming down wasnt the best terminology.
> They are catering as they always do to the newest generation of children. I am less mad at the stations as i am at this new generation. I fear that they will grow and care not for story or character development, but only random, poorly placed potty humor.


Because of you I'm tempted to walk to Sainsburys and buy a box of flapjacks


----------



## Burke (Feb 27, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Because of you I'm tempted to walk to Sainsburys and buy a box of flapjacks



can you get me some with pecans.
oh and maple syrup of course
thanks bro


----------



## Jena (Feb 27, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On that subject, I noticed that in _Teen Titans,_ the concept of death was usually avoided, and even words such as "death" and "die" were rarely spoken, while _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ did not have this problem. Why is that? Why with this series able to have greater freedom to discuss such subjects when another western animated series from the same decade with a similar concept and target demographic did not?



I don't know if this is the reason, but wasn't Teen Titans on the WB while Avatar was on Nick? It could be a scrutiny issue. Basic access TV channels can't get away with as much as the cable channels can.

Or it could be a personal choice thing on the creators' part. Avatar on the whole delt with much deeper themes than Teen Titans did. Not to say that Teen Titans didn't touch on darker topics, but it wasn't at the level that Avatar did. Hell-the whole premise of Avatar is rebellion against dictatorial oppression.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 27, 2011)

Avatar by it's very nature deals with death and mortality. 

I do recall a bit of discussion before the finale about how they are going to deal with murder and killing, though. I think we were all a bit surprised when Aang came right out and said it, so it's not like Avatar was free from those issues.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 27, 2011)

Jena said:


> I don't know if this is the reason, but wasn't Teen Titans on the WB while Avatar was on Nick? It could be a scrutiny issue. *Basic access TV channels can't get away with as much as the cable channels can.*



Why is that? That seems to be very unfair to me. And _Teen Titans_ was shown on _Cartoon Network,_ which is also a premium channel, not a basic channel.



Jena said:


> Or it could be a personal choice thing on the creators' part. Avatar on the whole delt with much deeper themes than Teen Titans did. Not to say that Teen Titans didn't touch on darker topics, but it wasn't at the level that Avatar did. Hell-the whole premise of Avatar is rebellion against dictatorial oppression.



Yes, that makes sense, but _Teen Titans_ had Slade, a diabolical mastermind who expressed a rather disturbing interest in three adolescents (Robin, Terra, and Raven) and put them through many deadly ordeals, and Trigon, a twenty-foot-tall demon with red skin and powers of flame who was the near embodiment of evil in that series' universe. Such topics as those are very dark, in my mind, so I wonder how the writers of that series could not have delved more deeply into such topics?


----------



## kyrax12 (Feb 27, 2011)

Is it me or was Avatar kinda like Suikoden in plot?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 27, 2011)

kyrax12 said:


> Is it me or was Avatar kinda like Suikoden in plot?



I don't know, I've never heard of it and a cursory glance at it's story suggests cursory similarities.


Avatar's plot is very much based on monomyth; it's easy to compare it to innumerable stories.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 27, 2011)

kyrax12 said:


> Is it me or was Avatar kinda like Suikoden in plot?





Jove said:


> I don't know, I've never heard of it and a cursory glance at it's story suggests cursory similarities.
> 
> Avatar's plot is very much based on monomyth; it's easy to compare it to innumerable stories.



I agree that the plot of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is unquestionably similar to the plots of many other stories, but that does not mean that it is a poorly-written story. I found it to be a very enjoyable tale that blended numerous dramatic elements together into a form that provided both entertainment and some level of though-provoking depth. I hope that western animation continues to provide such stories as this in the future.

On the subject of western animation overall, while I am not currently seeking to follow any new series, I am interested to know if there are any other series similar to _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ in the case that I decide to follow a new series. I have heard positive statements about _Ben 10, Danny Phantom,_ and _Kim Possible,_ so if I am fond of _Avatar, Teen Titans,_ or _X-Men: Evolution,_ would I enjoy those series, as well?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 27, 2011)

I hear Star Wars a lot as well. But when people look to the same source material (Campbell) obviously things will appear similar. I've always found that to be a really facile comparison, anyway. Comparing Avatar to Star Wars, or Suikoden, or whatever based on plot structure is like comparing two people based on skeletal structure: similarities are easy to find, but it's the other stuff that matters.


Symbionic Titan's pretty good, although it doesn't have much depth yet.


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## VerdantVenus (Feb 27, 2011)

Jove said:


> I hear Star Wars a lot as well. But when people look to the same source material (Campbell) obviously things will appear similar. I've always found that to be a really facile comparison, anyway. Comparing Avatar to Star Wars, or Suikoden, or whatever based on plot structure is like comparing two people based on skeletal structure: similarities are easy to find, but it's the other stuff that matters.
> 
> 
> Symbionic Titan's pretty good, although it doesn't have much depth yet.


That and writers who worked on Avatar have their hands in Star Wars, TMNT and stuff.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 27, 2011)

Even so, Star Wars is the laziest reference there is, and it's almost always a shallow one, too.


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## Superstarseven (Feb 27, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> That and writers who worked on Avatar have their hands in Star Wars, TMNT and stuff.



Clone Wars I know because of Filoni and Giancarlo Volpe but I'm not seeing any Avatar writers who have worked on TMNT according to IMDB. I'm assuming you mean the 2003 revamp? Other than that it did kill some time as I got to see what the writers have worked on before or since. I'm seeing stuff as diverse as the Nick & Jessica Variety Hour and Piranha 3D.


----------



## Jena (Feb 27, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why is that? That seems to be very unfair to me. And _Teen Titans_ was shown on _Cartoon Network,_ which is also a premium channel, not a basic channel.
> 
> I have heard positive statements about Ben 10, Danny Phantom, and Kim Possible, so if I am fond of Avatar, Teen Titans, or X-Men: Evolution, would I enjoy those series, as well?



I think because [before digital television] everyone with a TV received basic access television automatically, whereas you have to pay extra for cable. I'm not sure if there's an actual "rule" or anything, but it's something that I've noticed. The kid's shows on basic access TV are (typically) more tame than the ones on cable TV.

Oh boy, I haven't watched Kim Possible, Danny Phantom, or Ben 10 in a few years so sorry if my nostalgia makes them seem better than they actually were, but I think you'll like them. Kim Possible and Danny Phantom are better than Ben 10 IMO, but Ben 10 is pretty good too. They don't really "dig deeper", though, if you know what I mean. American Dragon: Jake Long is another really good one. The guy who voiced Prince Zuko also voices the main character.


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## Shade (Feb 27, 2011)

Clone Wars Tartakovsky is one of the best pieces of Western animation IMO. And 2008 Clone Wars is actually really good in parts once you get past the weak first season. I would recommend checking that out if you're into Star Wars at all.


----------



## Time Expired (Feb 27, 2011)

Out of curiosity, does anyone think firearms will be making an appearance in Korra?


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 27, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that makes sense, but _Teen Titans_ had Slade, a diabolical mastermind who expressed a rather disturbing interest in three adolescents (Robin, Terra, and Raven) and put them through many deadly ordeals, and Trigon, a twenty-foot-tall demon with red skin and powers of flame who was the near embodiment of evil in that series' universe. Such topics as those are very dark, in my mind, so I wonder how the writers of that series could not have delved more deeply into such topics?



Cartoons based off of comic books tend to be _vastly_ watered down from their original stories. This is also true with Teen Titans, which was made to be much more light-hearted than the comics. So by comparison the TT cartoon wasn't that dark, though it had some dark themes. 


Jove said:


> Symbionic Titan's pretty good, although it doesn't have much depth yet.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb7MdnJFSxA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Quaero (Feb 28, 2011)

Wow, I'm alive. Who knew?


Posting fan art as part for my return. 




Faster


----------



## Time Expired (Feb 28, 2011)

Mmm - the Emperor's new art I see.  Check your links.  ^^


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## Ms. Jove (Feb 28, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> Out of curiosity, does anyone think firearms will be making an appearance in Korra?



I'm pretty sure this came up a while ago, but I doubt it. I think it would be pretty charmless, if it did, unless it was totally archaic weaponry. I'm happy to keep things fully grounding in bending.





Narcissus said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb7MdnJFSxA[/YOUTUBE]




Well yeah, there's that. But it seems like the show's not yet started to address concepts the way Avatar did. There's a depth to the characterization, but the show's pretty much been nothing but characterization.


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## Time Expired (Feb 28, 2011)

Jove said:


> *I'm pretty sure this came up a while ago, but I doubt it. I think it would be pretty charmless, if it did, unless it was totally archaic weaponry. I'm happy to keep things fully grounding in bending.*
> 
> Well yeah, there's that. But it seems like the show's not yet started to address concepts the way Avatar did. There's a depth to the characterization, but the show's pretty much been nothing but characterization.



I think it's an interesting notion - and yeah I think it would have to be relatively primitive as well.  The thought came in light of an anti-bending sentiment, I was thinking it might go a long way as an equalizer.  And in Steampunk fiction there are some firearms.  

This aside, it should be interesting to see how they balance technology and bending.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 28, 2011)

Introducing guns into the Avatar universe seems weird and jarring. But I trust that with Mike and Bryan at the helm it wouldn't be _Shadow the Hedgehog_; they'd make it work.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 28, 2011)

An equalizer only really works if it requires an equal amount of effort to master.
Having 10 year olds with guns kill master benders who've trained for decades wouldn't work.


----------



## Jena (Feb 28, 2011)

I hope they don't introduce guns. It would take out the charm. Plus bending is a thousand times cooler than a propelled piece of metal.
Although I suppose if someone could pull it off, it would be Mike and Bryan.


----------



## Superstarseven (Feb 28, 2011)

It's a real possibility that Automobiles will be introduced in Korra due to the technology we've already seen in The Last Airbender. That suspension bridge we see in the concept art isn't clear enough to see if the denizens of Republic City ride around in Ostrich-Horse and buggies or perhaps even Zixing ches.
If I do see everyone in the city riding bicycles, there'll be a huge smile across my face.


----------



## Bender (Feb 28, 2011)

^

Now that's just plain retarded

Automobiles?


----------



## Buskuv (Feb 28, 2011)

Bender said:


> ^
> 
> Now that's just plain retarded
> 
> Automobiles?



Yeah, it's not like they have Tanks or Submarines or Airships, right?

Automobiles?

Ppfbbfbfbbfbb


----------



## Bender (Feb 28, 2011)

^

The airships was a good idea and definitely fit in the show. The idea of cars or shit is an uncomfortable element in Legend of Korra.  If anything the idea of guns for the opposing for called the Anti-Benders sounds far more appropriate.


----------



## Buskuv (Feb 28, 2011)

That really doesn't chance the fact that they practically had vehicles, just being engineered along the lines of a Bender-prolific society.


----------



## Bender (Feb 28, 2011)

Granted

However, it's still an unusual image even in a show where technology is semi-unique as the world of Avatar.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 28, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Wow, I'm alive. Who knew?
> 
> 
> Posting fan art as part for my return.
> ...



I found the third image to be rather disturbing, but the first image was very humorous, especially Tenzin's face after Aang gives him advice for attracting women. I can definitely image a scene such as that actually occurring in the series, but it is unlikely to be shown, as Tenzin's age is said to be from 41 to 71 in _Avatar: the Legend of Korra,_ although I suppose that flashbacks of his past can be shown.

On the subject of _The Legend of Korra,_ I would rather not see firearms or automobiles because they would seem to be out of place in the ancient China-inspired world of _Avatar._ Plus, with the existence of bending, technological advances may not be as great a necessity as they are in our world. In actuality, magical powers and forces do not exist (as far as science has proven), so technological advances were and still are necessary to make society more comfortable and secure, but with the existence of bending in _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ completely new technological advances are not as great a necessity, so I imagine that any technological advances will work with bending rather than being completely independent of it.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 28, 2011)

You know the Chinese had invented gunpowder more than a thousand years ago right?

Ancient-China inspired stuff leaves a setting right open to guns.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 28, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> You know the Chinese had invented gunpowder more than a thousand years ago right?
> 
> Ancient-China inspired stuff leaves a setting right open to guns.



Yes, except that the ability to magically manipulate fire did not exist in ancient China, which necessitated the discovery and use of explosive powders. Because firebending exists in the world of _Avatar,_ explosive powders may not be as relevant as they are in actuality.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 28, 2011)

Unless every non-bender has a personal bender slave there certainly is a need for fire related advancements.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Feb 28, 2011)

Oh, right. DDJ probably doesn't know Jackie Diaz's iconic work. DDJ, all I can say is that that picture is ironic; now, imagine if it was totally serious, and 450,000% more absurd and histrionic. You're nearly at the level of insanity and balderdash that springs from the mind of Jackie Diaz.




It could be possible that everything mentioned will be in the series, framed as making bending obsolete. I'm not sure how much they can manage in 12 episodes. I think we can expect that a lot in Korra, content-wise and structurally, will be jarring for us.


----------



## Quaero (Feb 28, 2011)

> Yes, except that the ability magically manipulate fire did not exist in ancient China, which necessitated the discovery and use of explosive powders. Because firebending exists in the world of Avatar, explosive powders may not be as relevant as they are in actuality.



While this is true, the ability to control fire is completely different from having actual explosive materials. 

An explosion rarely has actual fire (This is what Hollywood would have you think), in reality its destructive force comes from the pressure it generates, not whatever flames may result from it.


----------



## Time Expired (Feb 28, 2011)

Jove said:


> Introducing guns into the Avatar universe seems weird and jarring. But I trust that with Mike and Bryan at the helm it wouldn't be _Shadow the Hedgehog_; they'd make it work.



I agree; it does seem out of step with their reality.  It was just a thought, but in pursuit of that notion, I think it represents a progression of existing technology or ideas.  The Fire Nation airships droped some type of incendiary device or bomb.  Controlling or focusing that energy to an end isn't that far fetched (Edit: but in light of the general overall feel of Avatar, firearms might have much too hard an edge). 



Nodonn said:


> An equalizer only really works if it requires an equal amount of effort to master.  Having 10 year olds with guns kill master benders who've trained for decades wouldn't work.



I understand what you're saying regarding the balance of power in the story.  However, people without the ability to bend are at a severe disadvantage.  I think that's one aspect _Korra_ is going to be dealing with - leveling the playing field.  It should be interesting to see what they come up with.  



Jena said:


> I hope they don't introduce guns. It would take out the charm. Plus bending is a thousand times cooler than a propelled piece of metal.
> Although I suppose if someone could pull it off, it would be Mike and Bryan.



Well said - takes away the charm.  

They have really done an amazing job in balancing the action and martial aspects of the show with the perception of violence.  This is especially true when you look at Zuko's face, think of Katara's mother, or remember Long Feng taking Jet out.  We know these events took place, but they've been softened substantially.  

I hope it's understood that I don't want guns in because I think it would be cool, or a good idea for the story.  It's just that it seems technology is going to be playing a preeminent part in the new series, and their world having being at war for such considerable periods of time, I think it's a real consideration.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Feb 28, 2011)

Jove said:


> Oh, right. DDJ probably doesn't know Jackie Diaz's iconic work. DDJ, all I can say is that that picture is ironic; now, imagine if it was totally serious, and 450,000% more absurd and histrionic. You're nearly at the level of insanity and balderdash that springs from the mind of Jackie Diaz.



Who is Jackie Diaz? I searched for that name using an internet search engine, but the results were numerous and varied, so it seems that there is no one single Jackie Diaz who is famous for whatever reason.



Jove said:


> It could be possible that everything mentioned will be in the series, framed as making bending obsolete. I'm not sure how much they can manage in 12 episodes. I think we can expect that a lot in Korra, content-wise and structurally, will be jarring for us.



Why would bending become obsolete? Bending is a central element of this franchise and the stories set in it, so I cannot imagine the story writers writing such a story.



Quaero said:


> While this is true, the ability to control fire is completely different from having actual explosive materials.
> 
> An explosion rarely has actual fire (This is what Hollywood would have you think), in reality its destructive force comes from the pressure it generates, not whatever flames may result from it.



Yes, I know that, but a blast of air simply is not as visually impressive as a blast of flame, and I am certain that if the flames are sufficiently hot, they can be just as devastating as the pressure from an explosion. Plus, a blast of air cannot burn or disintegrate physical materials the way that fire can, so if it is necessary to incinerate something, rather than merely knocking it back, firebending will still be relevant. Plus, I like seeing fire in explosions in the media that I follow.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Feb 28, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> You know the Chinese had invented gunpowder more than a thousand years ago right?
> 
> Ancient-China inspired stuff leaves a setting right open to guns.


They also had seismographs, large mining drills, natural gas pipelines, milling and processing lines to break grains and minerals, chromium use in metallurgy, advanced metallurgy in general, clocks, etc....

Of course, they were bass ackwards traditionalists that held back, and even destroyed god knows what other progress was going on in ancient China. 

Back to Avatar, they have chemical explosives, so there's no doubt that guns can be possibly made in the Avatarverse, the question is if they find out and decide how to put them together.

Also, a gun doesn't necessarily have to utilize combustion. Despite air guns being relatively recent by "ancient standards", it is possible and probably preferable to make pneumatic guns in the Avatarverse, if only solely for its steampunk qualities. They're newer than gunpowder, but have that weird archaic charm that would fit all too well in Avatar.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 1, 2011)

I wouldn't mind either way if they choose to or not to include more advanced technology. I do highly doubt that we'll see the apperance of firearms though. But as long as the writers can make it believable and it works well with the story I'll be happy, because I'm positive they won't make anything so advanced that it renders benders useless.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 1, 2011)

Question is, can they introduce handguns without bumping up the TV rating?
Now I know that if someone were to actually get shot--that's a TV-PG right there but just brandishing one or shooting it with stormtrooper accuracy could fall right between the TV-Y7-FV or TV-G rating depending on how frequently we see them used. 

Andrea Romano (voice director) was interviewed by Toonzone.net recently and had this to say on the progress of the new show.



> TZN: Do you have a status update on the new Avatar series, The Legend of Korra?
> 
> ANDREA ROMANO: It’s awesome! I couldn’t be more proud. It’s a lot of the same that worked on the original series, The Last Airbender, and so the quality will be exactly what to expect. It’s a beautiful cast. It’s beautifully written. The two creators of the series, Bryan Konietzko and Michael DiMartino, wrote every single script of this one which is unlike The Last Airbender, where they had writers. They wrote every single one [here] so the quality is high. The animation is going to be stunning. It will be exactly what people want it to be.
> 
> ...



She'd know more than I would but I hope that it airs earlier than 2012.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 1, 2011)

I definitely trust her judgment on the show, even taking into account her involvement. She's been involved in a lot of things, but she gushes over Avatar.


DDJ, when you google Jackie Diaz, make sure to include "How I Became Yours." Technically it doesn't exist anymore, but there's enough said about it to piece together the pure insanity of it all.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 1, 2011)

Jove said:


> DDJ, when you google Jackie Diaz, make sure to include "How I Became Yours." Technically it doesn't exist anymore, but there's enough said about it to piece together the pure insanity of it all.



Yes, I know the name of _How I Became Yours._ I am not intimately familiar with that story, but I have read several pages of it and know that it is a piece of fanfiction similar to _My Immortal_ or _Light and Dark: the Adventures of Dark Yagami,_ all of which are famous for being so horrifically poorly-written that they actually are somewhat humorous and entertaining.



Superstarseven said:


> Question is, can they introduce handguns without bumping up the TV rating?
> Now I know that if someone were to actually get shot--that's a TV-PG right there but just brandishing one or shooting it with stormtrooper accuracy could fall right between the TV-Y7-FV or TV-G rating depending on how frequently we see them used.



Realistic firearms were used in _Gargoyles,_ and Eliza was even shot by one in an episode that focused on gun safety, although they also coexisted with energy-based firearms, as well. In both _Teen Titans_ and _X-Men: Evolution,_ firearms were used, although no character was actually injured by them, and all three of those series were rated TV-Y7, so I imagine that _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ may possibly be able to portray firearms without an increase in rating.


----------



## Burke (Mar 1, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb7MdnJFSxA[/YOUTUBE]



...
saying i rest my case or i told ya so seem s bit too cliche at this point...

jesus am i going to have to tell my children not to watch cartoons?

Arent these the same guys behind Dexters Lab?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 1, 2011)

That's one scene from the show. Do yourself a favor and watch Symbionic Titan, or don't have children at all.


----------



## Burke (Mar 1, 2011)

Jove said:


> That's one scene from the show. Do yourself a favor and watch Symbionic Titan, or don't have children at all.



I probably wont be able to due to that "kick to tha balls" 

But i have seen more of this show and i do have to say i got a bit bored 

I really cant explain.... and its not that im solely into action porn... but i dunno


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 1, 2011)

There was also an episode of Static Shock where Richie was shot by a gun in an episode about gun control. To my knowledge, Static Shock kept its rating.


N??ps said:


> ...
> saying i rest my case or i told ya so seem s bit too cliche at this point...
> 
> jesus am i going to have to tell my children not to watch cartoons?
> ...



Yes, I believe they are. But this isn't anything new, cartoons have snuck stuff in like this all the time. For example:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xmAC9Qu908[/YOUTUBE]

Dexter's Lab also showed Dexter's naked body as well. Kids more than likely won't catch on to it, and to my understanding, Symbionic Titan is a pretty good cartoon.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 1, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I know the name of _How I Became Yours._ I am not intimately familiar with that story, but I have read several pages of it and know that it is a piece of fanfiction similar to _My Immortal_ or _Light and Dark: the Adventures of Dark Yagami,_ all of which are famous for being so horrifically poorly-written that they actually are somewhat humorous and entertaining.
> 
> 
> 
> Realistic firearms were used in _Gargoyles,_ and Eliza was even shot by one in an episode that focused on gun safety, although they also coexisted with energy-based firearms, as well. In both _Teen Titans_ and _X-Men: Evolution,_ firearms were used, although no character was actually injured by them, and all three of those series were rated TV-Y7, so I imagine that _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ may possibly be able to portray firearms without an increase in rating.


I think Light and Dark is intentionally like that...


----------



## Burke (Mar 1, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> There was also an episode of Static Shock where Richie was shot by a gun in an episode about gun control. To my knowledge, Static Shock kept its rating.
> 
> 
> Yes, I believe they are. But this isn't anything new, cartoons have snuck stuff in like this all the time. For example:
> ...



A good point


----------



## Quaero (Mar 1, 2011)

Jove said:


> Technically it doesn't exist anymore



Oh Jove, so wonderfully naive. 

My AoX review is up on my blog...


*Spoiler*: __ 




Also, she made a sequel.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 1, 2011)

Notice the same face for all of them <_<


----------



## Jena (Mar 1, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Oh Jove, so wonderfully naive.
> 
> My AoX review is up on my blog...
> 
> ...



Damn it, I totally want to read this now, but my computer doesn't have the ability to open .rar files.

I don't suppose you have a .zip version?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 1, 2011)

Jena said:


> Damn it, I totally want to read this now, but my computer doesn't have the ability to open .rar files.
> 
> I don't suppose you have a .zip version?


Get CDisplay, and open with


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 2, 2011)

I SAID TECHNICALLY AND THAT'S STILL TRUE!


There was a time, a moment found somewhere in the first thread I believe, where Jackie Diaz was just the girl that took those photos of herself as Katara that the guys quite appreciated.


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## Jena (Mar 2, 2011)

Nevermind, I figured out how to open it.

And my god.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 2, 2011)

And when you're arguing with an anti-shipper that shipping is harmless fun and how it actually makes a fandom better and enhances appreciation of a show, and the anti-shipper plays the How I Became Yours Card...


Science is still searching for a comeback.


----------



## Noah (Mar 2, 2011)

I REFUSE TO READ THAT TRASH.

I skimmed through that god awful Bleach one she made. If I go through this one, I may just have to scoop out that other eye.


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## Koi (Mar 2, 2011)

Is that the one that has its own TVTropes page?

YES IT IS.  Haha Mai you hor.


Is that a sequel?  Because.. _Lilith_.  That is all.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 2, 2011)

Koi said:


> Is that the one that has its own TVTropes page?
> 
> YES IT IS.  Haha Mai you hor.
> 
> ...


All significant fanwork is, troll or otherwise


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Notice the same face for all of them <_<



In actuality, a person's face is the most unique and complex part of their external appearance, as humans identify each other primarily by facial features, so they are also the most difficult to illustrate. A friend of mine who is a skilled artist has told me this, although I definitely believe that the person who made that image was being lazy and certainly could have expended slightly more effort to give the characters in the image a greater variety in their facial features.


----------



## Jena (Mar 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In actuality, a person's face is the most unique and complex part of their external appearance, as humans identify each other primarily by facial features, so they are also the most difficult to illustrate. A friend of mine who is a skilled artist has told me this, although I definitely believe that the person who made that image was being lazy and certainly could have expended slightly more effort to give the characters in the image a greater variety in their facial features.



No, I think they mean that she literally uses the same face over and over again in one page. 
For example...


----------



## Koi (Mar 2, 2011)

Is that an _actual_ page?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 2, 2011)

Jena said:


> No, I think they mean that she literally uses the same face over and over again in one page.
> For example...


The only thing that moved is Aang 

And he didn't even move, he was obviously rotated in the same pose >____>


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 3, 2011)

This I got to here!!!


----------



## Burke (Mar 3, 2011)

when do i get to call you Jove again


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> The only thing that moved is Aang
> 
> And he didn't even move, he was obviously rotated in the same pose >____>



Yes, that is a rather ridiculous tactic for the author of that story to use, especially how Aang's leg is still bent, even when Zuko and Sokka are holding him in a horizontal position. I also notice that their faces are exactly the same in every image, as well. How can someone be so lazy when writing a story?


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## Noah (Mar 3, 2011)

I'd like to see an open dialogue between DDJ and The Creature Diaz.

It'd be entertaining, me thinks.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 3, 2011)

Noah said:


> I'd like to see an open dialogue between DDJ and The Creature Diaz.
> 
> It'd be entertaining, me thinks.


But we don't have a sacrifice to call her from the depths of the rotting swamp she dwells beneath.


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## Noah (Mar 3, 2011)

M. Night!


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## Nodonn (Mar 3, 2011)

Noah said:


> I'd like to see an open dialogue between DDJ and The Creature Diaz.
> 
> It'd be entertaining, me thinks.



I suspect that DDJ and Diaz are related, annoyingness like that must be genetic. An open dialogue would probably end in DDJ trying to bone Diaz. We can't risk either of them procreating.

In response to this post DDJ will now say that annoyingness is not genetic


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 4, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> I suspect that DDJ and Diaz are related, annoyingness like that must be genetic. An open dialogue would probably end in DDJ trying to bone Diaz. We can't risk either of them procreating.
> 
> In response to this post DDJ will now say that annoyingness is not genetic



I am not related to Jackie Diaz, the author of _How I Became Yours,_ and although I do not wish to prove your words true, annoyingness is not a genetic condition; it is strictly in the mind of the person observing the behavior.

Nor would I seek to engage in sexual activity with a person whom I have never met, and whether or not I reproduce is none of your business, at all.


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## Nodonn (Mar 4, 2011)

*Fistpump*


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 4, 2011)

Are you suggesting that if a discussion led to the discovery that DDj and Diaz were related, DDj would want to have sed with her that much more strongly?

Where do you people get these ideas, huh? AND WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER PROGRAMME?


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 4, 2011)

dBs said:


> Are you suggesting that if a discussion led to the discovery that DDj and Diaz were related, DDj would want to have sed with her that much more strongly?
> 
> Where do you people get these ideas, huh? AND WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER PROGRAMME?


DDJ has an i*c*st thing


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 4, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> DDJ has an i*c*st thing



Yes, I do, but that is not relevant to the subject of this thread, so I shall ask that you not mention or discuss it here.


----------



## Burke (Mar 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I do, but that is not relevant to the subject of this thread, so I shall ask that you not mention or discuss it here.



Exactly guys, lets ju-



EDIT: sig vvvv


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## Noah (Mar 5, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I do, but that is not relevant to the subject of this thread, so I shall ask that you not mention or discuss it here.



Oh ho ho! But the decision is not yours to ma--wait wtf! I meant an actual conversation when I mentioned them, not some dirty cousin rape fantasy.

What have I done?! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 5, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Oh Jove, so wonderfully naive.
> 
> My AoX review is up on my blog...
> 
> ...


Oh gods....is this what I think it is? 

Not a sequel!


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 5, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> DDJ has an i*c*st thing








Really though, I was unaware of the sequel. I've slacked off too much.


----------



## Nodonn (Mar 5, 2011)

dBs said:


> Really though, I was unaware of the sequel. I've slacked off too much.



Go check the bathhouse, the dude has a thread asking how he can bone his cousin.


----------



## Noah (Mar 5, 2011)

....considering Its "art style", I wonder how many years it took It to make those fancy fire and lighting effects in photoshop.

But I'll just assume one of the tardfans did it for It.


----------



## Burke (Mar 5, 2011)

Noah said:


> ....considering Its "art style", I wonder how many years it took It to make those fancy fire and lighting effects in photoshop.
> 
> But I'll just assume one of the tardfans did it for It.



I think that we found out that she like copy pastas other peoples work.
Which is why the art looks decent at some points.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 5, 2011)

Well that whole page got tainted fast


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 5, 2011)

Best. Timing. Ever.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 5, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What if I do? Why do you care about such aspects of my personal life? You are acting as if I am doing something wrong or unusual by having such a desire, but relationships between first cousins are not terribly uncommon in certain areas of the world, and even in the United States or Europe; there have been certain instances of such relationships. For example, Franklin D. Roosevelt married his first cousin, Eleanor Roosevelt, Edgar Allen Poe married his first cousin, Virginia, and Charles Darwin married his first cousin, Emma.




FDR and Eleanor were distant cousins. Poe's marriage, by any decent standards, was unsavory. It is not unusually historically; that's not a justification for anything. You should know that history is an excellent source of example against it. 


And that's the last I want to hear about this right now.



Oh, and we'll discuss anything related to the show, including awful fanfiction.


----------



## Burke (Mar 5, 2011)

dBs said:


> FDR and Eleanor were distant cousins. Poe's marriage, by any decent standards, was unsavory. It is not unusually historically; that's not a justification for anything. You should know that history is an excellent source of example against it.
> 
> 
> And that's the last I want to hear about this right now.
> ...



Yeah, wasnt she also 12 years old


----------



## Koi (Mar 6, 2011)

..Can't tell if this is legit or not, but in either case:



> Nickelodeon
> Exclusive rendering of the heroine of “The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra.”
> 
> March 6, 2011, 6:00 PM ET
> ...


----------



## Jena (Mar 6, 2011)

Legit or not, that art is badass.


----------



## Burke (Mar 6, 2011)

wow that cityscape looks pretty modern.
and legit or not, i approve!


----------



## Koi (Mar 6, 2011)

Wall Street Journal claims they'll have more series details tomorrow, btw.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 6, 2011)

That's as legit as it gets. Second guessing on the internet is, sadly, way too common. Speakeasy gave us the first interview with M&B about this show so I think it's great that they snagged a followup. Tons of work has been done since that first promo concept art was released in the summer so it'll be great to have more details.

The fanartists weren't too far off with her face.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 6, 2011)

Korra looks amazing. I made a post in the other thread and then thought about it being fake. I hope not, but I hope so at the same time. I don't want the show to be titled "The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra" it sounds really stupid...

EDIT:
Nevermind.....


----------



## Shade (Mar 6, 2011)

The picture looks great but I'm not liking this 'next year' business. I wonder if this serves as a confirmation that we will indeed be getting the series in 2012.


----------



## ElementX (Mar 7, 2011)

Korra looks great.

Two things worry me though:

*The Last Airbender*: The Legend of Korra 

*Next year*

...what's the deal?


----------



## Noah (Mar 7, 2011)

Hrm....it seems Cameron was really thorough when he claimed rights to "Avatar".

Dick move, Jimmy. Dick move.


----------



## Koi (Mar 7, 2011)

^I'm thinking the same thing. \:  Fuck that guy, seriously.



Even if this has nothing to do with him and it's just a transcription error, fuck James Cameron anyway.


----------



## Nodonn (Mar 7, 2011)

Man, I can't wait to read some A Feast for Crows: A Dance With Dragons and The Chamber of Secrets: The Prisoner of Azkaban after watching The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 7, 2011)

The title just seems way too strange, I'm sure Mike and Bryan had every intention of naming the show either Avatar:The Legend of Korra or Avatar:The Journey Of Korra
I can come up with a reasoning for it within the context of the show but why mess with the franchise name?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 7, 2011)

You know, it could just be a mistake as well.


----------



## Jena (Mar 7, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> You know, it could just be a mistake as well.



But conspiracy theories are so much more fun!


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 7, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> You know, it could just be a mistake as well.



Because Avatar fans are so relentless, the writer of the article is responding directly to questions and left this:



> Christopher John Farley wrote:
> 
> Nickelodeon told me the title is ?The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra.? The show doesn?t come out until next year, so my guess is they could always shorten it.



He wrote it a second time several comments later. I remember that the first bit of news we received about this show was that Viacom copyrighted the name _Avatar:The Legend Of Korra_. Can't wait for that interview to be posted.

Well the other news is that the cast list has been posted.

Janet Varney as KORRA
Kiernan Shipka as JINORA 
Daniel Dae Kim as HIROSHI SATO
David Faustino as MAKO
Sheychelle Gabriel as ASAMI 
Lance Hendrickson as LIEUTENANT
JK Simmons as TENZIN

The people that I'm not familiar with are the first 2. I've heard David Faustino voice a TV ad campaign and casting someone from the film was an interesting choice but I trust Andrea Romano so I'm not worried.


----------



## CrazyAries (Mar 7, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Because Avatar fans are so relentless, the writer of the article is responding directly to questions and left this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If that is the David Faustino that I thing of, he was "Bud Bundy" on "Married with Children".  It was a sitcom on FOX.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 7, 2011)

Yep, should be one in the same but it's a voice role so you won't be thinking "THAT'S BUD BUNDY!!!???!?!" when you hear him. Wanna hear how he sounds when he's not attached to that character?

David Faustino VO Demo


----------



## CrazyAries (Mar 7, 2011)

I never would have guessed that he was doing that voice-over work. 

However, the first time I heard Zuko's voice, I instantly recognized it.  I remembered Dante Basco from "Hook".


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 7, 2011)

Tons of On-screen and Theatre actors do VO work on the side. I'm hearing Tim Allen's voice all over the TV nowadays for example. 
Dante didn't make enough of a dent for me to remember how his voice sounded in _Hook _but I do remember a short that aired on Cartoon Network titled _Kitty Bobo_ where he voiced the main role and it clicked when I heard Zuko.


----------



## CrazyAries (Mar 7, 2011)

Of course, and voice actors are given the opportunity to snag more gigs in a short time.

Basco just has an easily recognizable voice.  It did take me awhile to figure out that he was voicing Jake Long.


----------



## Noah (Mar 7, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Because Avatar fans are so relentless, the writer of the article is responding directly to questions and left this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I totally misread that as Jim Varney. 



> Daniel Dae Kim as HIROSHI SATO
> David Faustino as MAKO
> JK Simmons as TENZIN



Gasp! It's Jin! And Bud! And that guy who's the awesome dad in every movie, even though I can't think of a single example!

Gasp! :gasp

....wait. Tenzin is Aang's son, right? Katara must've had him, like, 5 minutes after the final credits.


----------



## ElementX (Mar 7, 2011)

Noah said:


> ....wait. Tenzin is Aang's son, right? Katara must've had him, like, 5 minutes after the final credits.



LOL that kiss went farther than we thought it did...

JK Simmons ! That's crazy, I didn't even know he was into voice acting.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 7, 2011)

This new information about _The Legend of Korra_ is fascinating indeed. It is good to finally see Korra's face, and she does seem to have at least a slight resemblance to Katara, which may lend credence to the fan theory that Korra is a biological descendant of Sokka and Suki (her being a biological decedent of Katara would be extremely unlikely and also too coincidental). I still am hoping that Katara will be her waterbending teacher, which would be a very nice dramatic touch.

I see that a number of new voice actors are being hired to play the roles of a number of new characters; that is very good, but why did the animation studio bother to hire new actors? Surely, the same actors from the first series could play new roles in the new series? Doing so would save a great amount of time and effort in finding new actors and also give the existing actors more opportunity to use their skills, unless the studio wishes to find new actors with new talents.

I wonder who the other characters are? Most likely, they will be people whom Korra encounters in her journey, but it obviously is still too early to be certain about such things. I see that one of the characters has a surname, which will make him the first character in this series to possess such a trait, and one of the few characters in the entire franchise, including Toph and her parents.

I know that I should not complain about such a thing, but I hope that the actors do not stress the middle syllables of the characters' names in this series. I am not certain about Jinora, but Asami, Hiroshi, and Mako are all actual Japanese names, and, as with all Japanese names, no syllable in the name is stressed more than another when the name is spoken.

I also see that J.K. Simmons, who has a low-pitched voice, will be providing the voice of Tenzin, which makes it very likely that Tenzin will already be quite old by the time that Korra seeks his instruction. I was rather hoping to see a student/teacher romance between Tenzin and Korra, but that was already unlikely from the beginning and is now even less likely. Hopefully, Korra will have romance of some form in the series, but with it planned to last for only twelve episodes, I am not certain how likely that shall be.

On a different note, I now have great hope for Tenzin to be very similar to Iroh from the first series: i.e., a total badass. Hopefully, he will not be as pacifistic as his father was, but being an airbender makes it likely that he will be pacifistic, unfortunately. Please note that I am not advocating war and opposing pacifism, but I do not like characters who go to extreme measures to avoid violence, such as Aang when fighting Ozai or Orihime Inoue from _Bleach._

Overall, I am now very excited about the new series, but I hope that it can match the hype and expectation that it has, for some television series and movies have been unable to live up to their hype and thus not been well-received by audiences (such as the third _Spiderman, X-Men,_ and _Pirates of the Caribbean_ movies, in my mind). Therefore, I shall wait and watch at least several episodes of the series before I form an opinion of it.



Noah said:


> ....wait. Tenzin is Aang's son, right? Katara must've had him, like, 5 minutes after the final credits.



Actually, on the _wiki_ for _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ the  for Tenzin estimates that his minimum age is likely to be 41 and his maximum age is likely to be 71, so he shall already be very old during the series, although I am hoping that at least some flashbacks of his past, also showing Aang and Katara as his parents, will be shown.


----------



## Burke (Mar 7, 2011)

Aww, you just know they named that character Mako after the great himself :33



Superstarseven said:


> Janet Varney as KORRA
> Kiernan Shipka as JINORA
> Daniel Dae Kim as HIROSHI SATO
> David Faustino as MAKO
> ...




Alright well, seeing as i must not be the only one confused about who most of these people are, ill help some people out

KORRA
*Janet Varney*
Video Summary of Episode 2
(directly related to Rifftraxs, so, i have faith.)
So the character must be... I dunno, a typical heroine? ... well, I know I like her voice.

JINORA
*Kiernan Shipka* 
Video Summary of Episode 2
(Main character in Mad Men, and i figure some arrogant child actor)
So the character must be... A little girl, maybe an ally of korra.

HIROSHI SATO
*Daniel Dae Kim*
Video Summary of Episode 2
(Lost, Hawaii Five-O, and whats this, General Fong? )
So the character must be... super asian!

MAKO
*David Faustino*
Video Summary of Episode 2
(Married with Children, after that, your typical child star.)
So the character must be... a man... probably an ally of korra.

ASAMI
*SEYchelle Gabriel* 
Video Summary of Episode 2
(She played Yue in ... THAT movie )
So the character must be... well, i think shell be some chick korra has to save, if not, another ally of korra.

LIEUTENANT
*Lance Henrickson* 
Video Summary of Episode 2
(Throughout his extensive career, he plays the villain quite alot, also is going to be in the next Tron movie.)
So the character must be... well, im sure most of you have figured this, but i speculate hes the main villain.

TENZIN
*JK Simmons* (AKA Motha Fuckin JK Simmons)
Video Summary of Episode 2
(Wow, tenzin must be fairly old, i was hoping for 41 lol, and from what ive seen of JK's roles, he might even be grumpy)
So the character must be... old and gruff 

Did i help? :33



Noah said:


> Gasp! It's Jin! And Bud! And that guy who's the awesome dad in every movie, even though I can't think of a single example!



Juno!
Do i win?


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 7, 2011)

I am surprised that Janet is playing Korra. I watched a lot of stuff with her in it...though I never thought her stuff was really big. JK Simmons and the dude from Lost? This is weird casting...

I think I like Janet's voice...It sounds like it'll match Korra perfectly, if she acts well 



> Juno!
> Do i win?


Yes, JK was the father in Juno, but I didn't really think he was a bad father....

EDIT:
Wait, I just re-read that. J.K as Tenzin? That sounds bad


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 7, 2011)

Why is it weird casting? These people are actors. The minute you think of them as "the guy from lost" or "J.J. Jameson from the Spider-man movies" then you're not giving them a chance.  If you didn't think that Daniel Kim was weird as General Fong, why bring him up?


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## Terra Branford (Mar 7, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Why is it weird casting? These people are actors. The minute you think of them as "the guy from lost" or "J.J. Jameson from the Spider-man movies" then you're not giving them a chance.  If you didn't think that Daniel Kim was weird as General Fong, why bring him up?



I say weird because of all the actors they picked (that didn't really include Daniel Kim....), not that they represent a problem. By "weird" I mean I didn't expect them to pick any of those people, especially J.K Simmons and Daniel Kim _again_....


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## ElementX (Mar 7, 2011)

Its pretty much confirmed that the series won't air until 2012. The WSJ said that a Kung Fu Panda TV series will air this year and Korra will follow next 

Also, I'm becoming more worried that the title change is accurate. 

Cameron...


----------



## Noah (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm starting to think the title change might not so much be because of Otheravatar, but just to keep consistency with.....The Heap That Shall Not Be Named. As awful as it was, it probably brought in a whole slew of new fans (somehow), and they know it by that name. Saying "Avatar" makes them think of blue people. I don't like it, but I'm thinking that's the logic behind it.

And, thinking further, I don't know why I'm surprised by AWESOME DAD being Tenzin. If Korra is 14-16, then Tenzin would have to be her age at the very least. But since LOK takes place 70 years after TLA, that'd have Katara giving birth in her mid-70's. 

I'll assume they had Tenzin somewhere in their 20s, so 60ish sounds like a reasonable age. Wtf was I, and every fanartist, thinking before?


----------



## Gunners (Mar 8, 2011)

At this point in time shouldn't Tenzin have a child close to Korra in age or slightly older?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 8, 2011)

Gunners said:


> At this point in time shouldn't Tenzin have a child close to Korra in age or slightly older?



That certainly is possible, but no information about such a possibility has yet been revealed.

However, I have been wondering about the very idea of setting this new series seventy-five years after the first series. Why is that being done? Seventy-five years is a long time, an entire human lifetime, actually, so I imagine that the world of the series will have changed greatly by that time. Why not have this series set only twenty-five to fifty years after the original series? If that was done, most of the original characters would still be alive and the world would not be terribly different, unless that is the intent of the story writers?



Noah said:


> I'm starting to think the title change might not so much be because of Otheravatar, but just to keep consistency with.....The Heap That Shall Not Be Named. As awful as it was, it probably brought in a whole slew of new fans (somehow), and they know it by that name. Saying "Avatar" makes them think of blue people. I don't like it, but I'm thinking that's the logic behind it.



Why are you criticizing James Cameron's _Avatar?_ I thought that it was an excellent movie, even if its plot was rather familiar and archetypal. And he actually started development on it in 1994, long before _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ was conceived in 2001, so he actually did use the word "avatar" first for his production, although I still believe that he has no right to deny other people from using it.



Noah said:


> And, thinking further, I don't know why I'm surprised by AWESOME DAD being Tenzin. If Korra is 14-16, then Tenzin would have to be her age at the very least. But since LOK takes place 70 years after TLA, that'd have Katara giving birth in her mid-70's.



This page  explains that Tenzin's minimum likely age is 41 and that his maximum likely age is 71, or at least it did, until today. I have no idea why that information was removed from the page, but it was.



Noah said:


> I'll assume they had Tenzin somewhere in their 20s, so 60ish sounds like a reasonable age. Wtf was I, and every fanartist, thinking before?



I shall presume that most of the fans are young (from adolescents to early twenties in age), and they would therefore prefer the main charterers to be approximately the same age as them, as the characters would be easier to identify with.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't like the Korra thread outscooping us. 





So:

---- 26 episodes

---- Confirmation that there will be either more seasons and more series.

---- Mike and Bryan aren't exactly in agreement on Korra's age. 

---- Cars and motorcycles

---- There will be some kind of answer to the Ursa Question

---- Even through print, you can feel their discomfort when asked about the live-action film

---- CJF knows his stuff. He an excellent critic and having him be such a fan is obviously a very cool thing.



So, 26 episodes, like a proper anime... I wonder how that will play out. They've already done so much work on the first 12... I wonder if they'll go for integration or amend the shows to build towards a back 14.

But there we go: waiting until 2012 has a purpose, and a worthy one at that.


----------



## Koi (Mar 8, 2011)

..Cars and motorcycles, _what._


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 8, 2011)

Korra better not ride a goddamn motorcycle or else we're going to be on the slippery slope to:


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## Quaero (Mar 8, 2011)

> ---- 26 episodes



I'm fairly sure Korra will be 12 episodes long, the other 14 must be something else.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 8, 2011)

The way he worded it ("14 _more_ shows") suggests 26.


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## Koi (Mar 8, 2011)

dBs said:


> Korra better not ride a goddamn motorcycle or else we're going to be on the slippery slope to:



You know, if Korra does ride anything I HOPE it's a motorcycle.  Because fuck yeah, non-feminine girls who still get to have agency as women and be badassed while doing so.  I mean, look at that tattoo on her arm.  Fucking sick.  I love her already.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 8, 2011)

Girl power doesn't have to be trite. Keep the Renegade out of my Avatar, please.


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## Noah (Mar 8, 2011)

dBs said:


> ---- There will be some kind of answer to the Ursa Question




An answer? Do they mean "YES ZUKO FINDS HIS MOTHER FOR CHRISSAKES" like the end of TLA basically screams in our face? If he didn't find her, there would have been no point to that scene.


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## Nodonn (Mar 8, 2011)

I wonder how Ursa could be relevant in any way to Korra's story.
This is going to be some of the most awkwardly forced exposition ever.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 8, 2011)

Pai Sho on motorcycles.


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## Burke (Mar 8, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Its pretty much confirmed that the series won't air until 2012. The WSJ said that a Kung Fu Panda TV series will air this year and Korra will follow next



You dont say?
A Tv series ... + 7 MOVIES
Yeah, theyre planning to make 6 more.
I really would rather not see kung fu panda become a "thing". I mean, i liked the first one, but ... cmon :|



ReikaiDemon said:


> Pai Sho on motorcycles.



Oh god reikai just created a meme. 

... quickly, someone turn that into an image.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 8, 2011)

No one cares to hear about your tiny pools of reference, or how derivative you want Korra to be 

Shouldn't we just be content with Korra just being Korra, and not Naruto, or Bleach, or whatever?


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> No one cares to hear about your tiny pools of reference, or how derivative you want Korra to be
> 
> Shouldn't we just be content with Korra just being Korra, and not Naruto, or Bleach, or whatever?



Did I say that I wanted _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ to be derivative? The reason that I enjoyed the first series was that it was very different from many other western animated series that had been created before it, so I am hoping that this new series shall also be like that.

And why do you keep saying that I have a "tiny pool of reference?" _Bleach_ and _Naruto_ are _not_ the only fictional series that I have followed, but they are two of my favorites and have many of my favorite characters, which is why I frequently mention them. What if I said that I hoped that this new _Avatar_ series would have awesome swordfights in a manner reminiscent of _Rurouni Kenshin,_ intense personal drama on the level of such shows as _Fringe_ or _CSI,_ or plot twists as complex as those in _A Song of Ice and Fire?_ Would you still say that I had a limited pool of reference, then?

Also, you cannot presume that other users here have the same opinion as yourself on certain subjects; in this case, what other people think of my posts. Most users here are very polite to me and actually enjoy conversing with me, so I ask that you speak only for yourself on such subjects.

Finally, do you have some personal vendetta against me? I thought that we had resolved any remaining tension between us, and I am giving my best effort to be polite, yet you continue to provoke me in such a manner, focusing on a _single, minor aspect of my post,_ while also _completely ignoring the rest of my post,_ as if to influence the perception that other users of this forum have of me. I do not like that, as one my focus on the entirety of my posts, or any users posts, to truly understand them.

I have no personal vendetta against you, Reikai Demon, and I have been extremely reasonable with you, thus far, but I do not appreciate your aggressive and completely unwarranted behavior toward me, which I have _never seen you exhibit toward anyone else,_ and I shall you to stop immediately, because I have limits to how much I can tolerate, as does every person.


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## Noah (Mar 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Shouldn't we just be content with Korra just being Korra, and not Naruto, or Bleach, or whatever?



*ABSOLUTELY NOT*

We must always be able to make the inaccurate comparison of Avatar to far inferior pieces of fiction in our never-ending mission to bring down quality western story telling! And when comparing western animation with other western animation, we must always compare two things that are completely dissimilar and have no relevance to each other!

Also:



> Also, you cannot presume that other users here have the same opinion as yourself on certain subjects; in this case, what other people think of my posts.



CONFORM. CONFORM OR BE ELIMINATED.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 8, 2011)

Noah said:


> *ABSOLUTELY NOT*
> 
> We must always be able to make the inaccurate comparison of Avatar to far inferior pieces of fiction in our never-ending mission to bring down quality western story telling! And when comparing western animation with other western animation, we must always compare two things that are completely dissimilar and have no relevance to each other!



I hope that you are being sarcastic when you say this, because I definitely believe that any fictional series, including _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ should be judged by its own merits, and not by how it compares to other series.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Mar 8, 2011)




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## Ms. Jove (Mar 8, 2011)

They say the Ursa thing won't be in Korra; it'll be in some other project, apparently.


It's too bad that Korra is hotheaded, like every protagonist in a shonen manga. What we needed is a unusually placid character, like every antihero secondary character in a shonen manga.


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## Noah (Mar 8, 2011)

I vote for a depressing main character. Not an emo turd, just someone who's depressing. Depressing, but likable.


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## Gunners (Mar 8, 2011)

26 episodes  that has brightened my mood.


----------



## Shade (Mar 8, 2011)

I imagine we'll be hearing about Ursa in the comics that follow Book 3.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 8, 2011)

12 more episodes being added sounds great, but I'm worried about the quality of the show now. I wasn't expecting them to add more to the list before it was released but a little after when people demanded it or it was clear it was doing well.

I hope the show is good and I hope Korra doesn't disappoint me. pek


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 8, 2011)

I see there's an abundance of balderdash in the Korra thread. Boy, do I hate those nonexistant "incorrectly positioned" episodes that spoiled Avatar.




Terra Branford said:


> 12 more episodes being added sounds great, but I'm worried about the quality of the show now. I wasn't expecting them to add more to the list before it was released but a little after when people demanded it or it was clear it was doing well.
> 
> I hope the show is good and I hope Korra doesn't disappoint me. pek





Yeah, I wonder when that happened because Mike and Bryan don't refer to the extra 14 at all in the interview.


----------



## Quaero (Mar 9, 2011)

My god...

I've just had an eureka moment...

DemonDragonJ is Sheldon.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 9, 2011)

dBs said:


> It's too bad that Korra is hotheaded, like every protagonist in a shonen manga. What we needed is a unusually placid character, like every antihero secondary character in a shonen manga.



Why must you mock me in such a manner? If you disagree with what I say, surely, you could be more polite about it and directly say so, rather than repeating my words in a manner that is decidedly less mature and more sarcastic than the manner in which I stated them originally?

I was completely serious when I made my above statement, because it is only logical (at least it is, to me) that if Korra is emotional and hot-headed (i.e., a "red _oni"),_ then there should be a calm and rational character (being unnaturally stern is optional; i.e., a "blue _oni")_ to balance her personality and add variety to the characters of the series. Surely, there is nothing wrong with having a cast of characters with a great diversity of personalities?



Quaero said:


> My god...
> 
> I've just had an eureka moment...
> 
> DemonDragonJ is Sheldon.



If you are referring to Sheldon Cooper from _The Big Bang Theory,_ I have seen only one episode of that series, but from that one episode, as much as I do not wish to agree with you, I did notice that Sheldon was remarkably similar to myself, or, more accurately, myself from several years ago, when I was still in high school. I would like to believe that I have improved my social skills from that point in my life, so that I can interact with people in a more normal and easy manner.


----------



## Noah (Mar 9, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why must you mock me in such a manner? If you disagree with what I say, surely, you could be more polite about it and directly say so, rather than repeating my words in a manner that is decidedly less mature and more sarcastic than the manner in which I stated them originally?
> 
> I was completely serious when I made my above statement, because it is only logical (at least it is, to me) that if Korra is emotional and hot-headed (i.e., a "red _oni"),_ then there should be a calm and rational character (being unnaturally stern is optional; i.e., a "blue _oni")_ to balance her personality and add variety to the characters of the series. *Surely, there is nothing wrong with having a cast of characters with a great diversity of personalities?*



Sweet Jesus, man. Get off your high horse. Not everything is about you, especially this one. Hot-blooded lead characters are a stereotype and, god forbid, some of us don't want one. That's part of what made Aang's story so great; he was immature and childish, not hot-blooded. That was reserved for the anti-hero character, Zuko.

Sure, having an impulsive character (you red oni, whatever the hell that is) as a main character can work well. But, as Jove noted, and you pissed yourself over, it's a stereotype and practically every Japanese series has it. It's old hat. No one wants it anymore. The Gaang worked so well because the were missing about half the stereotypical personalities that you're likely referring to in the bolded statement.




> If you are referring to Sheldon Cooper from _The Big Bang Theory,_ I have seen only one episode of that series, but from that one episode, as much as I do not wish to agree with you, I did notice that Sheldon was remarkably similar to myself, or, more accurately, myself from several years ago, when I was still in high school. I would like to believe that I have improved my social skills from that point in my life, so that I can interact with people in a more normal and easy manner.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 9, 2011)

Noah said:


> Sweet Jesus, man. Get off your high horse. Not everything is about you, especially this one. Hot-blooded lead characters are a stereotype and, god forbid, some of us don't want one. That's part of what made Aang's story so great; he was immature and childish, not hot-blooded. That was reserved for the anti-hero character, Zuko.



Did I ever state that I believed that this subject was about me?

And Are you actually saying that some people _liked_ Aang being childish and immature? I find that to be difficult to believe, as being childish and immature are very negative traits (at least in my mind) and can easily contribute toward a person getting into great trouble. I much prefer characters in a fictional series to be mature and thoughtful.



Noah said:


> Sure, having an impulsive character (you red oni, whatever the hell that is) as a main character can work well. But, as Jove noted, and you pissed yourself over, it's a stereotype and practically every Japanese series has it. It's old hat. No one wants it anymore. The Gaang worked so well because the were missing about half the stereotypical personalities that you're likely referring to in the bolded statement.



For an explanation of the terms red _oni_ and _blue oni,_ read this web page .

As for the other part of that paragraph, I still believe that each major protagonist in the series could be used as an example of one or more well-known character archetypes, but that is not automatically a negative thing, as you seem to believe.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 10, 2011)

Of course people liked Aang when he was childish and immature. Why is fun a negative trait?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Mar 10, 2011)

dBs said:


> Of course people liked Aang when he was childish and immature. Why is fun a negative trait?


Because fun is unproductive.  Geez, Jove, get with the program.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 10, 2011)

I very much enjoyed the difference Aang offered as being a hero and what the show gave us, of course. He was childish, fun, immature but yet he was pretty smart too. I wouldn't have liked the show or Aang as much if not at all, if Aang was like Naruto/Ichigo or some other character like that.

Gaang and the show was perfect, especially with how the characters were. :3


----------



## Jena (Mar 10, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I very much enjoyed the difference Aang offered as being a hero and what the show gave us, of course. He was childish, fun, immature but yet he was pretty smart too. I wouldn't have liked the show or Aang as much if not at all, if Aang was like Naruto/Ichigo or some other character like that.
> 
> Gaang and the show was perfect, especially with how the characters were. :3



And let's not forget that whole dilemma with not wanting to kill the Firelord. Most shows of similar plot focus on simply defeating the big bad. Aang, however, struggled with the morality of killing his enemy. This sounds really cheesy, but I love the way that they handled it. Avatar showed that death isn't the answer to everything.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 10, 2011)

Jena said:


> And let's not forget that whole dilemma with not wanting to kill the Firelord. Most shows of similar plot focus on simply defeating the big bad. Aang, however, struggled with the morality of killing his enemy. This sounds really cheesy, but I love the way that they handled it. Avatar showed that death isn't the answer to everything.



Oh yea, I liked how they handled that as well. I didn't want Aang to be tainted by killing someone, I wanted him to keep his roots to the Monks and to be gentle. The way they went, I think, was the best way to go.

If they had made Aang kill the Firelord, it wouldn't have felt right or fit his character.


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## Koi (Mar 10, 2011)

Azula brofist, everybodah.


----------



## Noah (Mar 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Did I ever state that I believed that this subject was about me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do what now? 




> And Are you actually saying that some people _liked_ Aang being childish and immature? I find that to be difficult to believe, as being childish and immature are very negative traits (at least in my mind) and can easily contribute toward a person getting into great trouble. I much prefer characters in a fictional series to be mature and thoughtful.



Even without considering it's a story about a boy taking his place as a man, yeah, there are people who liked it. Wtf would I want a wise and sage-like 12 year old for? Mature and thoughtful is fine, but not for kids.




> As for the other part of that paragraph, I still believe that each major protagonist in the series could be used as an example of one or more well-known character archetypes, but that is not automatically a negative thing, as you seem to believe.



Automatically a negative thing? Absolutely not.

The problem with archetypes is this: THEY ARE ARCHETYPES. They've been done before. Many times before. So many times that it's hard to make one good. Original and out-of-the-box character types are far more interesting that something that's been done in every other story in existence. 

Just to spite your archetypes, I hope one of the new group is retarded. And I don't mean the stereotypical silly, screw-up, comedy relief Simple Jack retard. I mean the depressing, get no enjoyment out of watching, drooling, limping, can't feed himself, crapped his pants, force the audience to shift uncomfortably in their seat and look away from the screen retard. Hell, they can even name him HerpDerp McGerp.

Then he can defeat the big bad through sheer depression.

I think I'd like the arguments and debates following that episode.


----------



## ElementX (Mar 10, 2011)

I like that Korra's personality is different than Aang's, but I'm hoping she doesn't come off as just a Toph expy.  Seeing how great the characterization in the first series was though, I have high hopes. 

And I also want to know more about the supporting cast now. Man, we probably have to wait a while to get more information again


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 10, 2011)

Noah said:


> I think I'd like the arguments and debates following that episode.



Probably just a slight variant on what it always is:

10/10!!! WHAT THAT GUY DID WAS SO COOL!



Obviously, characters will fall into certain archetypes. Every character in Avatar was an archetype at first. It's a bit of a concern when you hear Korra described as "headstrong" and "fiery", but also as "vulnerable." I mean, you can just hear the story beats. But you know, the first few episodes are all about how much fun and engaging the show can be, so you can get through all the setup balderdash and start really understanding the characters.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 10, 2011)

dBs said:


> Of course people liked Aang when he was childish and immature. Why is fun a negative trait?



Being fun is not a negative trait, but being immature is, because being immature implies that a person cannot handle problems in a rational manner; they may seek a solution that is not feasible or causes greater harm than did the initial problem.



Jena said:


> And let's not forget that whole dilemma with not wanting to kill the Firelord. Most shows of similar plot focus on simply defeating the big bad. Aang, however, struggled with the morality of killing his enemy. This sounds really cheesy, but I love the way that they handled it. Avatar showed that death isn't the answer to everything.





Terra Branford said:


> Oh yea, I liked how they handled that as well. I didn't want Aang to be tainted by killing someone, I wanted him to keep his roots to the Monks and to be gentle. The way they went, I think, was the best way to go.
> 
> If they had made Aang kill the Firelord, it wouldn't have felt right or fit his character.



I agree that killing one's enemies is not always the solution, but I also strongly believe that there are fates worse than death, and Ozai's ultimate fate is such a fate. I would rather not restart discussion of this subject, but if one examines the situation from a perspective other than Aang's, one might conclude that leaving Ozai alive and broken is actually far more cruel and less merciful than simply killing him. Surely, it is not good for younger members of the audience to learn that being cruel to one's enemies is a viable solution?



Koi said:


> Azula brofist, everybodah.



Azula is female, so referring to such an action as a "brofist" when she performs it is not completely accurate, but I certainly do appreciate the gesture, nevertheless.



Noah said:


> Just to spite your archetypes, I hope one of the new group is retarded. And I don't mean the stereotypical silly, screw-up, comedy relief Simple Jack retard. I mean the depressing, get no enjoyment out of watching, drooling, limping, can't feed himself, crapped his pants, force the audience to shift uncomfortably in their seat and look away from the screen retard. Hell, they can even name him HerpDerp McGerp.
> 
> Then he can defeat the big bad through sheer depression.
> 
> I think I'd like the arguments and debates following that episode.



I sincerely hope that you are not being serious when you say that, because I cannot imagine that any person in the audience would wish to see such a character; I certainly do not.

And why do you seek to spite my archetypes? Did I make some personal insult toward you of which I am not aware? I really do not appreciate how numerous users on this forum are are making personal attacks against me and my beliefs; I can tolerate certain insults, but not insults that are directed straight at me or my personal beliefs.


----------



## Burke (Mar 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Azula is female, so referring to such an action as a "brofist" when she performs it is not completely accurate, but I certainly do appreciate the gesture, nevertheless.



I dont even know what to say to this...


----------



## Gunners (Mar 10, 2011)

> Even without considering it's a story about a boy taking his place as a man, yeah, there are people who liked it. Wtf would I want a *wise and sage-like 12 year old* for? *Mature and thoughtful* is fine, but not for kids.


We actually got that through Aang, the creators just did a good job of not forcing it down our throats.


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## Superstarseven (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm looking forward to brand new AMV's by BlackSSK. He hasn't been in the thread for quite some time.


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## Bender (Mar 10, 2011)

Although I disagreed with the concept of Ozai's defeat I've finally come to terms with it. Reviewing Aang's child-like personality traits and etc I believe it would've been total hell for him to take Ozai's life.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 10, 2011)

I actually think Aang was his most immature in the finale, but, you know, he ended the series as an 13/113 year old. 


Now the question becomes what Aang will be like in Korra. Will he be an adult version of himself, sort of a fun Kuruk? Is that too simple? Did he become more serious, maybe because something happened to one of the Gaang? Or is it worth it to distort Aang's character when he'll simply be a background character this time?


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## Dragonus Nesha (Mar 10, 2011)

Nøøps said:


> I dont even know what to say to this...


Sissy-fist!​


dBs said:


> Now the question becomes what Aang will be like in Korra. Will he be an adult version of himself, sort of a fun Kuruk? Is that too simple? Did he become more serious, maybe because something happened to one of the Gaang? Or is it worth it to distort Aang's character when he'll simply be a background character this time?


I'm hoping for him to be like Gyatso: wise and sage-like but with a joke always at hand.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 10, 2011)

Actually, I call it "sisfist" and I often use that term when I do something with my sisters xD

@DDJ:

I don't think Ozai would have preferred death over living. Something about his personality makes me think so >.< 

Besides, this way Ozai has a chance to mentally ill x


----------



## The Potential (Mar 10, 2011)

Hey Terra.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 10, 2011)

Nøøps said:


> I dont even know what to say to this...



Now that I think more thoroughly about it, perhaps my comment on that subject was not worth either the time that I spent typing it, the time that other users spent reading it, or the space on the server that it is now occupying.



Board Foot said:


> I'm hoping for him to be like Gyatso: wise and sage-like but with a joke always at hand.



That is what I myself imagined, especially after I saw this piece of fanart .


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## Terra Branford (Mar 10, 2011)

> I'm hoping for him to be like Gyatso: wise and sage-like but with a joke always at hand.


Gyatso already did _that type_ of character though...oh wait, and Toph did Korra's >.<



The Potential said:


> Hey Terra.



Hello there! I see you have changed your name


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## Noah (Mar 10, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Gyatso already did _that type_ of character though...oh wait, and Toph did Korra's >.<



No. Toph did AWESOME. Toph is her own character model.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Now that I think more thoroughly about it, perhaps my comment on that subject was not worth either the time that I spent typing it, the time that other users spent reading it, or the space on the server that it is now occupying.



I'm going to add this to every forum announcement the staff makes from now on. Something NF should always keep in mind.


Except in this thread. 


And enough of this language debate. Obviously Azula gives brofists.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 10, 2011)

Noah said:


> No. Toph did AWESOME. Toph is her own character model.



I agree, Toph is AWESOME! :33

I meant Toph did Korra by _giving_ Korra _someone to be_ 

If that makes sense....?


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## Bender (Mar 10, 2011)

dBs said:


> Now the question becomes what Aang will be like in Korra.



Shouldn't Aang be dead by the time of Legend of Korra?


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 10, 2011)

Bender said:


> Shouldn't Aang be dead by the time of Legend of Korra?



Yes, he's going to be long dead. Its 70 (or sixty?) years after the last show and if I remember right, his long sleep in the icechamber took a lot of energy from him so it lessened his Avatar life span.

But that's only if I remember what I was told correctly xD


----------



## Jena (Mar 10, 2011)

Bender said:


> Shouldn't Aang be dead by the time of Legend of Korra?



Yeah. Not to mention that Korra is the *next* Avatar. Logic dictates that Aang would be dead.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 10, 2011)

Bender said:


> Shouldn't Aang be dead by the time of Legend of Korra?



Yes, but only in the physical sense. I believe what dBs was referring to was his role as Korra's mentor in the same way that Roku was a mentor to him.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 10, 2011)

On the subject of the Avatar cycle, I was wondering something: each new Avatar adds their memories and experiences to the pool of past lives that can be accessed by the current Avatar, but would that process not mean that each new Avatar may possibly be more powerful than even their predecessors, with this process continuing and escalating as time passes?

The only manner in which I can imagine that this process is balanced to ensure that it does not become too powerful is that the identities and memories of the older Avatars eventually fade away into nothingness as newer Avatars are born. What does everyone else have to say on this subject?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 10, 2011)

I think that idea completely misses the point, because, as I have to point out to you once again, the whole basis of the Avatar world and system is that the Avatar is supposed to be astoundingly powerful to maintain balance in the world and between the animal world and Spirit World.

In short, this doesn't need to be balanced because _it is what creates balance_. 


There no reason to even have the Avatar State or the Avatar Spirit itself if the spirit fades. Come on.


Will Korra surpass Aang? That's not a given. Past Avatars should have had knowledge of Spirit Bending, but Aang had to discover it on his own. It's not like every piece of knowledge becomes cogent and utilized once he becomes fully realized.

But her potential is higher than his.


----------



## ElementX (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm really interested in what's up with this new anti-bending revolution. I'm guessing they have some type of technology on their side that helps them combat benders, otherwise they'd get quashed pretty easily. Not to say that they won't have any advanced martial artists on their side, but I can't imagine that they would be able to pose a real threat without something more.


----------



## CrazyAries (Mar 11, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On the subject of the Avatar cycle, I was wondering something: each new Avatar adds their memories and experiences to the pool of past lives that can be accessed by the current Avatar, but would that process not mean that each new Avatar may possibly be more powerful than even their predecessors, with this process continuing and escalating as time passes?
> 
> The only manner in which I can imagine that this process is balanced to ensure that it does not become too powerful is that the identities and memories of the older Avatars eventually fade away into nothingness as newer Avatars are born. What does everyone else have to say on this subject?





dBs said:


> I think that idea completely misses the point, because, as I have to point out to you once again, the whole basis of the Avatar world and system is that the Avatar is supposed to be astoundingly powerful to maintain balance in the world and between the animal world and Spirit World.
> 
> In short, this doesn't need to be balanced because _it is what creates balance_.
> 
> ...



This is a really good question.  I think that the Avatar is ultimately as powerful as he needs to be.  He may have the memories from his past incarnations, but he has use his spiritual powers in order to access them and ultimately has to relearn how to bend all of the elements.  The current personality of the current Avatar and the situation will determine how he uses the elements and how fast the bending is developed and mastered.  There is extra emphasis on the situation.  Aang was pressed for time, and the threat that Ozai posed was far to great for Aang to rest.


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## Wan (Mar 11, 2011)

dBs said:


> Will Korra surpass Aang? That's not a given. Past Avatars should have had knowledge of Spirit Bending, but Aang had to discover it on his own. It's not like every piece of knowledge becomes cogent and utilized once he becomes fully realized.
> 
> But her potential is higher than his.



Korra has a lot of work to do if she is to surpass Aang.  Aang will probably be remembered as one of the greatest Avatars of all time.  He essentially singled-handedly brought an end to a hundred year war where armies and kings had failed, by beating the Fire Lord himself during Sozin's comet, all while still at the physical age of 12.  Songs will be sung about Aang for centuries to come.  

Compared to the other Avatars...Roku essentially let the War happen, so he may be remembered as one of the worst Avatars in history.  Kyoshi stopped Chin the Conqueror, and did the monumental feat of creating Kyoshi Island, so she's pretty good.  She did found the Dai Li though, which ended up as a major problem for her successor.  Kuruk, from what we can tell, was a arrogant, uncaring bum, and may very well have DIED going after Koh.  We don't really know anything about Yangchen.

Speaking of Koh...I'm still waiting for Koh's cryptic "We'll meet again" to Aang to be fulfilled.  Maybe he meant in Aang's next life.  I also am waiting for an elaboration on Iroh's journey to the Spirit World that Zhao mentioned.  And of course Zuko to find his mom.

So many unused plot threads.


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## Gunners (Mar 11, 2011)

> Compared to the other Avatars...Roku essentially let the War happen, so he may be remembered as one of the worst Avatars in history. Kyoshi stopped Chin the Conqueror, and did the monumental feat of creating Kyoshi Island, so she's pretty good. She did found the Dai Li though, which ended up as a major problem for her successor. Kuruk, from what we can tell, was a arrogant, uncaring bum, and may very well have DIED going after Koh. We don't really know anything about Yangchen.


Apparently her ( Yangchen) efforts led to an era of peace which allowed Kuruk to slack off. Kuruk wasn't a none caring bum, he lived in a peaceful era so he could take it easy.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 11, 2011)

When Aang reappeared, though, we saw that people blamed him for the war. I don't believe Roku took much of the heat for it, since it technically began over a decade after his death. If anything, his presence and immense power precluded war.

Roku was a monster, so surpassing him probably seemed daunting, but circumstance aided Aang. And, obviously, Spiritbending bridged the gap in ability.


Going back to DDJ's point, I bet that in the Avatar world a lot of people actually rejoice over how powerful Avatars become, because it means the next one should be even stronger. And when you think about the immediate predecessors of Korra, the Kyoshi-Roku-Aang grouping, the expectations for Korra must be outrageous.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 11, 2011)

dBs said:


> Going back to DDJ's point, I bet that in the Avatar world a lot of people actually rejoice over how powerful Avatars become, because it means the next one should be even stronger. And when you think about the immediate predecessors of Korra, the Kyoshi-Roku-Aang grouping, the expectations for Korra must be outrageous.



I wonder if high expectations for Korra will be a major plot point in this series? Will Korra find that people expect from her more than she can deliver, and feel stress from that situation, possibly causing her to doubt her abilities or experience some other emotional torment? If such a plot can be well-written, I certainly would like to see it.


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## JellyButter (Mar 11, 2011)

Toph is most DEFF the best character now.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 12, 2011)

JellyButter said:


> Toph is most DEFF the best character now.



What traits does she have that make her the "best" character, in your view? Such a designation is highly subjective because another follower of the franchise may believe that another character is the "best."


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 12, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What traits does she have that make her the "best" character, in your view? Such a designation is highly subjective because another follower of the franchise may believe that another character is the "best."


Can you be any more of a tool, captain obvious?


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm more interested in why she's the best _now_.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 12, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Can you be any more of a tool, captain obvious?



Would it really take too much effort for you to _not_ pick away at every post that I make?


----------



## Burke (Mar 12, 2011)

Oh god, i was really trying to deny it at first, but i guess the show really is going to be called the last airbender: the legend of korra...

one part of me is ust so furiated with james cameron or the production company for Avatar, seeing as they are most likely to blame for this.

the other part of me knows that im going to have to deal with it. i mean, on one hand it could be compared to tron, where the title really doesnt mean anything anymore, you know, because tron was basically a minor villian in the second movie. But, then you could compare it, like others have pointed out, to calling the second starwars movie "A New Hope: The Empire Strikes Back"

really i think they should have put up a fight to keep the name...


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## Terra Branford (Mar 12, 2011)

@N??ps:
So its official now? The title will be like the movie with the Korra extension? 
I really hoped that wasn't so, but I guess it doesn't matter since Tenzin might be the last airbender....?

(As a Star Wars fan, I don't mind really, what they call the movie. Lucas chose the name and allowed it, so I'm happy with it )



DemonDragonJ said:


> What traits does she have that make her the "best" character, in your view? Such a designation is highly subjective because another follower of the franchise may believe that another character is the "best."



Hey wait...if its subjective, why must the reason for Toph to be "the best" be clarified? 

But if I must as a rabid fan: Because she's amazing. Its hard to explain how is she the greatest in the show, Toph is just the best. No words can describe her awesomeness. pek


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## CrazyAries (Mar 12, 2011)

Forgive me if this has been asked before:  Why don't they just call the show, "The Legend of Korra"?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 12, 2011)

It's a good question. Anything but this awkward, double-barreled name. Let's hope something changes in a year.


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## Gunners (Mar 12, 2011)

How about calling Avatar:The Legend of Korra. I don't think this is Cameron's fault in terms of copyrighting shit, I think it is more along the lines of Avatar feeling that the names create confusion and bending their will because of it.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 12, 2011)

CrazyAries said:


> Forgive me if this has been asked before:  Why don't they just call the show, "The Legend of Korra"?



Let's hope they do that instead. If they don't.... >.>


----------



## Shade (Mar 12, 2011)

From a marketing POV, it seems reasonable to have TLA as the main title if there's trouble with having Avatar, in order to have some brand recognition. But the fact of the matter is that the majority of watchers will be ATLA fans who have been anticipating the show for a long time. If anything, the TLA brand might turn people off the show, seeing it associated to the Hollywood trash. I'm all for calling it 'The Legend of Korra', if not something a little less clichéd. (In fact, I'm a little miffed at Mike and Bryan for having picked this title in the first place.)

Anyway, do we know anything about the airdate aside from 2012? If they started production on TLOK last summer with 12 episodes for a Fall 2011 release, I'm thinking another 14 might push the airdate to Fall 2012.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 12, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Would it really take too much effort for you to _not_ pick away at every post that I make?



You made several posts in the last few days, and I comment on one of them since my last reply, that's hardly picking away at "every" post.

And that's ironic, now you know how it feels on the other end.

Also surprising, you didn't go into a wall of text rant.

Anyways, this whole affair with James Cameron is still as stupid as it was years ago. What fucking gives, Paramount? You had every legal right to Avatar as a trademark, and a team of lawyers, but back down because big dick James fucking Cameron throws a hissy fit over not having Avatar as the title for his subpar movie tech demo thing.

Hell, it was entirely possible to successfully defend against Cameron, but they just let him have it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 13, 2011)

Shade said:


> Anyway, do we know anything about the airdate aside from 2012? If they started production on TLOK last summer with 12 episodes for a Fall 2011 release, I'm thinking another 14 might push the airdate to Fall 2012.



Well, perhaps they will do it like Book 1 and 2, and have a spring run, a few month break, and then a fall run. From this point, that would give them over a year and a half.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 13, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Hey wait...if its subjective, why must the reason for Toph to be "the best" be clarified?
> 
> But if I must as a rabid fan: Because she's amazing. Its hard to explain how is she the greatest in the show, Toph is just the best. No words can describe her awesomeness. pek



Yes, I suppose that you are correct, and I while certainly found Toph's character to be entertaining  and interesting, she was definitely not my favorite character in the series; I did not like how she was extremely immature, self-centered, or used foul language (or as foul language as could be used in a television series aimed at younger audiences).



ReikaiDemon said:


> You made several posts in the last few days, and I comment on one of them since my last reply, that's hardly picking away at "every" post.
> 
> And that's ironic, now you know how it feels on the other end.
> 
> Also surprising, you didn't go into a wall of text rant.



First, I was not in a very good mood at the time that I made that post, so that, combined with previous interactions that we have had, must have led me to believe that you were commenting on every post that I made.

Second, that seems to be very a vengeful thing to say, and what do you mean when you say "now you know how it feels on the other end?"

Third, I did not make a very long post in response because there was no need to do so at that time (there is now, of course, but there was not then).



ReikaiDemon said:


> Anyways, this whole affair with James Cameron is still as stupid as it was years ago. What fucking gives, Paramount? You had every legal right to Avatar as a trademark, and a team of lawyers, but back down because big dick James fucking Cameron throws a hissy fit over not having Avatar as the title for his subpar movie tech demo thing.
> 
> Hell, it was entirely possible to successfully defend against Cameron, but they just let him have it.



Yes, I also am displeased with how James Cameron is apparently monopolizing the term "avatar," but I am not certain what ordinary people, such as the users of this forum, can do about it. Hopefully, Nickelodeon will not submit to any legal pressure from Cameron and use the term nevertheless; also, the term "avatar" is much more central to the plot of this series that it is to James Cameron's _Avatar,_ so it would be very odd to me if this series could not use the term in its title while Cameron's movie can.


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## Narcissus (Mar 13, 2011)

Toph was by far one of the best characters of Avatar. Her personality was fun and unique among the Gaang, and I liked the showing between her softer side and her normal behavior. She was also one of the funniest characters. I found her the second best female character after Azula.

As for the name change for Korra, it's stupid. Utterly stupid. That's all that really needs to be said about it.


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## Burke (Mar 13, 2011)

Toph is definetly the BEST character.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 13, 2011)

> Second, that seems to be very a vengeful thing to say, and what do you  mean when you say "now you know how it feels on the other end?"



It's an instance of the "pot calling the kettle black"

Although, I'm somewhat glad that James Cameron stole the rights to Avatar, because The Last Airbender was totally heinous. But now, it's worse now because Korra has to share the shit colored glasses view as the movie. So that little grace was negated and then made worse.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 13, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Toph was by far one of the best characters of Avatar. Her personality was fun and unique among the Gaang, and I liked the showing between her softer side and her normal behavior. She was also one of the funniest characters. I found her the second best female character after Azula.
> 
> As for the name change for Korra, it's stupid. Utterly stupid. That's all that really needs to be said about it.


I share your views about why Toph being the best/one of the best. She was very unique among her friends and gave great humor. 

Azula! 



Nøøps said:


> Toph is definetly the BEST character.



I love the Toph love :33



DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I suppose that you are correct, and I while certainly found Toph's character to be entertaining  and interesting, she was definitely not my favorite character in the series; I did not like how she was extremely immature, self-centered, or used foul language (or as foul language as could be used in a television series aimed at younger audiences).



She's a child, she's going to be immature. Even Aang is immature. And if Toph was self-centered, she wouldn't have tried to save Gaang or Appa...well, okay, she sorta is but not to the degree you think  

Her foul language made her humor, her whole character is what makes her good. She was original, funny, strong, self-assured (yet we see her soft side with Katara) and confident. That makes her a great character pek


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## Narcissus (Mar 14, 2011)

Like Terra said, Toph was a child, so she was naturally going to be immature. Being one of the most powerful benders in the world at such a young age only increased that. 

I fiund Azula the best of the female characters though because she had some amazing development, going from a princess who lived in a world where everything always went her way into insanity. Katara was good, but I didn't find her personality as appealing as Toph and Azula.

But it's undeniable that Toph was great.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 14, 2011)

I think we can all agree that the best character was not human.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 14, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Like Terra said, Toph was a child, so she was naturally going to be immature. Being one of the most powerful benders in the world at such a young age only increased that.
> 
> I fiund Azula the best of the female characters though because she had some amazing development, going from a princess who lived in a world where everything always went her way into insanity. Katara was good, but I didn't find her personality as appealing as Toph and Azula.
> 
> But it's undeniable that Toph was great.


*_*the*_ strongest bender in the Avatar world*

That's exactly why I love Azula so much as well. Out of all the characters, Toph and Azula stood out the most to me. I too, enjoyed how Azula developed and sadly, into her sanity. 

Azula charmed me instantly :33



dBs said:


> I think we can all agree that the best character was not human.



Hawky, Momo, Appa, Space Sword or Boomerange cannot compete with the great Toph


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 14, 2011)

Foul language? I don't remember Toph using foul language. Informal, yes, but not profane.


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## Noah (Mar 14, 2011)

dBs said:


> I think we can all agree that the best character was not human.



This is true. Wang Fire has ascended far beyond the mortal limits of the human being.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 14, 2011)

Noah said:


> This is true. Wang Fire has ascended far beyond the mortal limits of the human being.


But Boomerang always comes back


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## Terra Branford (Mar 14, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Foul language? I don't remember Toph using foul language. Informal, yes, but not profane.



This is more than enough to show Toph's foul language. 
[YOUTUBE]0UQYwn-slQo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Jena (Mar 14, 2011)

dBs said:


> I think we can all agree that the best character was not human.




*Spoiler*: _Hawky's epicness will live forever._


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## Narcissus (Mar 14, 2011)

He'll steal their faces. :ho


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 14, 2011)

I meant cake, Zhao's love interest.


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## Jena (Mar 14, 2011)

dBs said:


> I meant cake, Zhao's love interest.



Did you know that the actor who plays Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies voiced Admiral Zhao? I discovered that the other day and it BLEW MUH MIND.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 14, 2011)

Jason Isaacs has been in a lot of stuff. I remember when we were all aghast that he wasn't cast in the movie as Zhao...


Now we're all relieved he wasn't tainted by that garbage.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 14, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> I fiund Azula the best of the female characters though because she had some amazing development, going from a princess who lived in a world where everything always went her way into insanity. Katara was good, but I didn't find her personality as appealing as Toph and Azula.





Terra Branford said:


> That's exactly why I love Azula so much as well. Out of all the characters, Toph and Azula stood out the most to me. I too, enjoyed how Azula developed and sadly, into her sanity.
> 
> Azula charmed me instantly :33



Yes, Azula was also one of my favorite characters in the series, because of her great firebending skill, ability to manipulate other into doing her bidding, and overall evilness and awesomess. She was evil, but I do find her fate at the end of the series to be very tragic.

My favorite character of all is Zuko, as I have said before, because of the great difficulties and trials that he undergoes during the series, to which I can relate.

I also am very fond of Ozai and Iroh; Ozai, for being a megalomaniacal tyrant; and Iroh, for being very wise and knowledgeable yet also very powerful. Does that fact that many of my favorite characters are from the Fire Nation royal family mean anything, or is it simply a coincidence?

On the subject of the Fire Nation's royal family, the only major member of it who did not at all seem to be warlike or aggressive was Ursa, the descendant of Roku, wife of Ozai, and mother of Zuko and Azula. While she certainly seemed to be an exceptionally good mother, the only time she every actually appeared in the series was in a flashback of Zuko's, and Zuko's perspective regarding her may be biased in her favor. I have seen other users here debating whether or not Azula was truly evil, and if her personality and hidden insecurity was the result of the different treatment by her parents or simply her own arrogance, so I, therefore, am wondering about Ursa, as well. Was Ursa truly as loving and as caring as she seemed to be, or did she deliberately disregard Azula and favor Zuko as Ozai disregarded Zuko and favored Azula, albeit in a far more subtle manner? Azula clearly believed so. Ozai also implied that Ursa may have had a role in Azulon's death, so I believe that there is the possibility, however slight, that Ursa's _"yamato nadeshiko"_ image may have been a facade, hiding a far more dangerous true nature. What does everyone else say about that?


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## CrazyMoronX (Mar 14, 2011)

Mine favorite was that old fat dude. Iroh or whatever.


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## Gunners (Mar 14, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Mine favorite was that old fat dude. Iroh or whatever.



He _trimmed down_.


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## Nodonn (Mar 14, 2011)

DDJ what could possibly be the point of making a character practically irrelevant to the plot secretly a psychopath who emotionally tortured her daughter against all appearances?

I suppose you could theorize that Roku was actually spending all his time fapping to 16 year olds instead of preserving balance and that his entire story was a well fabricated lie but _what would be the fucking point?_


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 14, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On the subject of the Fire Nation's royal family, the only major member of it who did not at all seem to be warlike or aggressive was *Ursa, the descendant of Roku, wife of Ozai, and mother of Zuko and Azula.*



Oh, _that _Ursa.

Thank god you clarified her genealogy, or I may have confused her with one of the several other Ursa's in the series.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 14, 2011)

Ironically, Azula is a proper cold, calm character until the end.

Rather than being an aloof git with nothing else to say as a substitute for a real personality and intelligence.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 14, 2011)

So any talk of the earth king and his bear making a cameo in the new series


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 14, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Oh, _that _Ursa.
> 
> Thank god you clarified her genealogy, or I may have confused her with one of the several other Ursa's in the series.



I believe that sarcasm is not necessary for a discussion of this subject, so I ask that you please refrain from speaking in such a tone. The reason for which I mentioned her relations with the other characters was for dramatic effect, as referring to her as simply "Ursa" seemed to be very anticlimactic to me.



Nodonn said:


> DDJ what could possibly be the point of making a character practically irrelevant to the plot secretly a psychopath who emotionally tortured her daughter against all appearances?
> 
> I suppose you could theorize that Roku was actually spending all his time fapping to 16 year olds instead of preserving balance and that his entire story was a well fabricated lie but _what would be the fucking point?_



The point is that I am wondering about a character who had very little screentime because she was very important to a major character in the series (Zuko). Many people like to wonder if there is more to something than what is immediately apparent; for example, is the tale of Little Red Riding Hood as simple as it seems to be: a story of a young girl encountering a wolf as she travels through the forest to her grandmother's house, or is it also a metaphor for the dangers of the world beyond what is familiar to a person? Was the Trojan Horse a literal horse, or was it a symbol for something else? Are stories of giants and dwarves inspired by normal humans with medical conditions that are now clearly understood?

All of these are examples of scientific analysis, from which some people make their entire careers. I saw how some people were debating whether Azula was truly evil or simply misunderstood, and I decided that I wished to start another debate: what is wrong with wishing to do that? I observed three facts that made me wonder if Ursa was what she seemed to be and wish to learn more about her: first, her only appearance is in a flashback of Zuko's, which may provide a biased depiction of her, as Zuko clearly loved her very much (I actually believe that he was slightly _too_ fond of her, but that is not relevant to this subject), so there is very little information about her, at this moment; second, Azula has a different perception of her than does Zuko, and she must have a reason for this, so clearly, Zuko's side of the story is not the only side and therefore cannot be taken as being infallibly correct; third, Ozai strongly implied to Zuko that Ursa was somehow involed in Azulon's death, and that was not in a flashback, so there is no chance of bias or misinterpretation there. It is true that Ozai may have been saying such a thing merely to torment Zuko, but it is suspicious that Ursa disappeared without warning on the same day that Azulon died, plus Ozai was never shown to be very deceptive in the way that Azula is; he preferred direct action over subtlety, so there was likely some truth to his words in that instance.

It is true that Ursa had only a minor role in the overall story of the series, but she was mentioned numerous times after she disappeared, so her importance cannot be underestimated, plus, it simply is fun and exciting to form interesting theories about the various characters in a fictional series such as this. After all, the characters in this series have greater depth and development than do the characters from other western animated series, so there is more room and opportunity for the audience to speculate about them.

Is that a satisfying explanation, I hope?



ReikaiDemon said:


> Ironically, Azula is a proper cold, calm character until the end.
> 
> Rather than being an aloof git with nothing else to say as a substitute for a real personality and intelligence.



To whom are you comparing Azula, if I may ask?


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 14, 2011)

> believe that sarcasm is not necessary for a discussion of this subject, so I ask that you please refrain from speaking in such a tone.



I wasn't speaking.


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## Koi (Mar 14, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> So any talk of the earth king and his bear making a cameo in the new series



I want the franchise to reboot so we can have good movies with Stephen Colbert as the Earth King.


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## Jena (Mar 14, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is wrong with what I am doing? I am actually attempting to look for depth and development in this series, rather than taking it at face value; many of the other users here have said that that is what makes this series so special in comparison to many other western animated series, so what is wrong with me doing what I am doing?
> 
> And again, I shall state that you are only one person, so it is very presumptuous of you to speak as if every other user here shares your opinion on this subject.



I don't know you...either of you, but as an outside observation, DDJ, you tend to word things in a condescending tone. That might be partially why you are having problems


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## Burke (Mar 14, 2011)

dBs said:


> I think we can all agree that the best character was not human.



I believe this is in support of my "Toph must be an alien" theory

jk


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## Terra Branford (Mar 14, 2011)

> I want the franchise to reboot so we can have good movies with Stephen Colbert as the Earth King.


Why Stephen Colbert as the Earth king?


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## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 14, 2011)

Koi said:


> I want the franchise to reboot so we can have good movies with Stephen Colbert as the Earth King.



 you think they could cast Stewart as King Bumi



Terra Branford said:


> Why Stephen Colbert as the Earth king?



better question is why not


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 14, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I shall presume that you are referring to such characters as Itachi Uchiha from _Naruto,_ Byakuya Kuchiki from _Bleach,_ or Sesshomaru from _Inuyasha,_as I have stated that they are among my favorite characters in Japanese animation and manga because they are "stern odedr brothers."



Those were three of the most boring characters I've ever come across (it doesn't help that they come from some pretty bad manga/anime series). 

You can try to give a character depth (LOL BLEACH), but they'll still come off as boring when they have no personality. Itachi is the best of the three, but still nothing special.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 14, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that is true, unfortunately; the users of the other forum of which I was a member did start to become very nasty to me after I had been a member of it for several years, despite the fact that I was extremely polite and respectful toward every one of them, even the users whom I did not like.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm sure you're tired of hearing this, but doesn't it occur to you that your "improperly formal" mannerism is what warrant this in the first place? And doesn't it occur to you that it's rather condescending in a way that is enough to cause people to dislike you? I mean really, you should know now, and how stubborn it seems for you to avoid contractions and continue the holier-than-thou implications of your manner of speech. 

You just have to read the air better.

That, and your literal thinking is ironic, seeing as you're taking things at face value by how they're said, and not meant. Like that silly Azula Brofist thing. 

The rather needless restating of canon clutters up a lot of your posts. It would be more efficient and easier to read if any questions are raised over confusion of any canon after you made your main point. In short, keep it simple, it doesn't make you simple. Like, you don't need to keep italicize series titles like an MLA paper, and you don't need to say "X from series Y". Really, it's all fluff and cruft

Do I have to find that beast? It's under a spoiler tag, somewhere, and I don't feel like looking for it. Though, I think I was repped several times for it. By the way, the people who agreed didn't have very flattering things to say, so I know I'm not the only person.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 14, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> you think they could cast Stewart as King Bumi
> 
> 
> 
> better question is why not


John Stewart would be the Earth King, and Rob Riggle as Bosco


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## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 14, 2011)

they should get that little asian girl from scott pilgrim to be toph.  You know the one who was the drummer.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 14, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> better question is why not


Stephen wouldn't fit the part 

Oh wait...the Earth king is the skinny dude with the bear, isn't it? Nevermind then


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 14, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Those were three of the most boring characters I've ever come across (it doesn't help that they come from some pretty bad manga/anime series).
> 
> You can try to give a character depth (LOL BLEACH), but they'll still come off as boring when they have no personality. Itachi is the best of the three, but still nothing special.



That is your opinion, Narcissus, and I shall respect it, just as I hope that you shall respect mine on this subject. And I shall say to you what I said to Reikai Demon; they do have depth, provided one reads the series from which they originate properly and maintains an open mind on the subject.



Jena said:


> I don't know you...either of you, but as an outside observation, DDJ, you tend to word things in a condescending tone. That might be partially why you are having problems





ReikaiDemon said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why do people not like the manner in which I speak? I am not doing it to insult or condescend the other users of this forum; that is simply how I speak. My manner of speech may seem odd or forced to everyone else here, but it is perfectly natural for me, as I have been using it for nearly my entire life. Additionally, I have said this before, but I shall say it again; if I can tolerate countless users on the internet using horrifically improper grammar and butchering the English language, surely all of those users can tolerate me, one user, using extremely proper and formal language; is that too much to ask?

Reikai Demon, that comment you made about receiving +rep for your post really bothers me, as I do not receive +rep nearly as often as I would like to, and I have actually received more -rep than what I would like to receive. As much as I do not wish to ask you this, what do you do to receive such great amounts of +rep? I checked myself and several other users in this thread, and I am slightly behind a significant percentage of the users who have posted here, and that bothers me. Plus, it seems to me that you are bragging when you make such a statement, as if you are proclaiming yourself to be superior.

Finally, I do not want to hear it from you only that other users here do not like the manner in which I speak. I have grown tired of snide comments from other users in response to my sincerity, so I shall say this very clearly, to avoid any misunderstanding: if a user here has a problem with the manner in which I speak, I ask that they say so explicitly and clearly, either in this thread or on my user profile page. I cannot stand lying and false politeness; I prefer honesty in all situations, even if being honest means expressing a negative opinion. On the other hand, surely there are some users here who are not bothered by my manner of speech? It cannot be possible that literally _every_ user on this forum here dislikes the manner in which I speak, I hope?


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## Narcissus (Mar 14, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That is your opinion, Narcissus, and I shall respect it, just as I hope that you shall respect mine on this subject. And I shall say to you what I said to Reikai Demon; they do have depth, provided one reads the series from which they originate properly and maintains an open mind on the subject.



The only one who may had a little depth to him was Itachi. Byakuya's situation was predictable and and not deep at all, and Sesshomaru just had some turn heel change because Rin tried to take care of him. 

I'd imagine you have not gotten into many works of fiction that includes real levels of depth. Avatar, for example, actually does a better job than any of those three you named with development, and there are still series out there that handle it better.


> Why do people not like the manner in which I speak? I am not doing it to insult or condescend the other users of this forum; that is simply how I speak. My manner of speech may seem odd or forced to everyone else here, but it is perfectly natural for me, as I have been using it for nearly my entire life. Additionally, I have said this before, but I shall say it again; if I can tolerate countless users on the internet using horrifically improper grammar and butchering the English language, surely all of those users can tolerate me, one user, using extremely proper and formal language; is that too much to ask?



We're getting way off-topic discussing your personal internet life. Really, everyone should just move on. But I'll give a quick and honest answer.

This is the internet. You're going to find people who don't like you or something you do no matter what. People insult and make fun of others who butcher the English language too. I've seen it. In your case, your excessive verbosity can be annoying to read through, and your overly-proper style does sometimes come off as condescending, even if that isn't your intention.


> On the other hand, surely there are some users here who are not bothered by my manner of speech? It cannot be possible that literally _every_ user on this forum here dislikes the manner in which I speak, I hope?



Your manner of speech isn't the only reason people across the forum have a problem with you. You also seem to have difficulty understanding sarcasm or simple jokes, many times taking the fun out of things. And there are a lot of people who dislike your threads in the Bathhouse.

At any rate, I really think we should change the subject, because these kind of things have the tendency to get too heated. Jove may be displeased.


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## Jena (Mar 14, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Off topic_ 




This is for DDJ, because you said that you wanted people to be upfront with you. I'm not trying to attack you. This is just my take, based on what I've seen. If you want to ignore it, then you're going to ignore it, but if you're interested, here it is.

DDJ, the reason why it sounds condescending is because you use a combination of passive language, lengthy sentences, and, for lack of a better word, hoity-toity expressions. 
As this is a forum website, the general levels of grammar and proper word choice are slack. Not to the point of blatant awfulness (à la "i liek sasuke-kun is gr8t lolz"), but to the point where it's understood that you don't have to be whipping out your best diction. When people excessively go to the trouble of insuring that their posts are written to superior quality, it comes off as "That poster thinks that they're better than everyone else by rubbing in how smart they are."

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that, but that's what I'm seeing. People will be more open to you if they feel like you are open to them. When they see an impenetrable wall of lengthy text, they're going to feel like you're talking down to them instead of at them.

Additionally, wording such as this:


> You did? I must have missed that, so could you please either reiterate what you said, or at least provide me with a link to where you explained your reasoning for having your belief?


Doesn't help you much. I can see that you're trying to be polite, but it comes off as condescending. It's like when you were a child and did something naughty, and then an adult would come talk to you. People don't like feeling like you're trying to scold them.

You don't have to type like a rabid monkey with a third-grader's understanding of the English language, but balance is needed. Losen up a bit. I _totally_ understand writing in a certain way, and that's fine if you want to continue doing what you're doing. Just know that means that people will dislike you and will be inclined to disregard your opinion. 





The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> they should get that little asian girl from scott pilgrim to be toph.  You know the one who was the drummer.


She wasn't Asian...I don't think...


And if we're casting, then Arnold Schwarzenegger should play Toph. 
...now I'm busy imagining all of Toph's lines as spoken by AHNOLD. 
_"TVINKLE TOES!"_


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 14, 2011)

Jena said:


> She wasn't Asian...I don't think...
> 
> 
> And if we're casting, then Arnold Schwarzenegger should play Toph.
> ...



I'm pretty sure The Gr8 Destroyer was talking about the little asian girl that was the drummer for the band that got incinerated during Scott's first fight. Not the drummer of Scott's band.


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## Shade (Mar 14, 2011)

Yeah, I believe Trasha was being referred to:


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## Terra Branford (Mar 14, 2011)

@Shade:
She wouldn't make a great Toph!  


Jena said:


> And if we're casting, then *Arnold Schwarzenegger should play Toph. *
> ...now I'm busy imagining all of Toph's lines as spoken by AHNOLD.
> _"TVINKLE TOES!"_



I want to stomp on you for that.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 14, 2011)

While I can say this with less keystrokes,and everyone else probably said more succinctly by the time I finish; I?m gonna type it in a way you can only understand. A massive wall of text, expanding on commonly known details in excess.

*Spoiler*: __ 




Do you really expect total strangers to know? Barring any major advancement in nutropics, people can't read minds. While I'm sure there's a minority of strangers who, upon meeting you, believe you aren't forcing it, the majority don't think so and are annoyed by it. I believe that it doesn't matter how you mean it, it matters how the people you talk to interpret it. Grammar is only half, or even less than half of language. What you aren't explicitly saying, you also need to think through. Context, tone, brevity, language is so much more than just typing out words in understandable arrangements.

People on the internet are hardly huge offenders of breaking language conventions. Deviating from proper norms of how to form English, or any language is a fact of human nature, it's as old as language itself. Otherwise, no language would ever change, tongues that are still spoken always change. We drop the e from old, we spell aluminum and color differently, punctuation marks are abbreviated from archaic phrases to denote the stops and tones of sentences.

On the internet, it doesn't matter as long as you can understand what could be said. It's also unreasonable to demand all people to put the same effort one would to write a college level dissertation when talking about cartoons on the internet. There's no real monetary incentive, it's all emotional. When a user feels like something is serious enough to, they?d put effort into wording it carefully and properly; but most importantly, in a way that can be best understood. 

And that's not even taking into account that some places on the internet impose character limits, like Twitter, so of course some english is "mangled" on purpose to get the message across. I could go on and on, how your stance isn't necessarily right, I can also go on how it isn't wrong either. Tolerate I believe, is a bad word for it, acceptance I feel is much more suited. To tolerate, is to begrudgingly put up with something, and it's unreasonable to expect people to be "smarter" about grammar.

I'm sure you're not even aware of some breeches of proper english that you've committed, as I do of my grasp of the language. While you lament that the English language is being butchered, you yourself butchered the Chinese and Japanese language on an almost racist ideal that since the languages are similar, then you can freely substitute Chinese words for Japanese because of your disrespectful cultural preference. That gives off the connotation that you respect Chinese culture less, so you won?t deign your high and mighty self to PROPERLY respect my language, and the canon of Avatar as well. 

Word density does not denote an abundance of intelligence, only ostentation. Being brief takes skill as well, and is much more efficient for the reader to be able to digest your message. Heck, chunking up what you want to get across in as many words as possible is counterintuitive in most cases. Most wouldn?t even begin to try reading such massive walls of text, or skim through them, and only get a fraction of what you want to convey. You?re not an easy person to talk to, that?s my opinion, but I know for a fact that I?m not the only one to think this. The way you state your feelings about people ?improperly? typing english on the internet also comes across as saying that those same people are inferior to you. Your insistence on typing this way is the same, it just carries a large connotation of superiority. But it?s mainly how you remark about people who don?t type like you do, and how you address others. In short, it?s grating, and demeaning. You may not mean it, but that?s just how some people take it.

As for me, I?m not doing anything special to get +reps, I just carry on being me. I brought it up, because when you get a rep for a post, it links your rep console to that post. I let you know that all the reps I got regarding you are positive, to rebut your claim that I?m the only person who thinks about you like this. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for your -reps for just being yourself, well, that just says everything. You can either change, or accept that a lot of people just don?t like you for many reasons.

And since you like intellectual mumbo jumbo, my background in Sociology compels me to bring up the Looking Glass Theory of Charles Horton Cooley. All people imagine how they appear to others, imagine how other people judge them, and whether or not they accept or reject those judgments.

And I?ll just leave it at that as food for thought.






Terra Branford said:


> @Shade:
> She wouldn't make a great Toph!
> 
> 
> I want to stomp on you for that.


But Tuff is awesome


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## Terra Branford (Mar 15, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> But Tuff is awesome



That girl doesn't suit Toph at all.  

Toph's actress needs to be perfect. I'm sure there's some 10-12 year old girl out there who would be absolutely awesome and well suited for the great Toph. :3


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## Dragonus Nesha (Mar 15, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Thank god you clarified her genealogy, or I may have confused her with one of the several other Ursa's in the series.


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## Noah (Mar 15, 2011)

Hrm....I want to respond to things, but I have no energy. So I'm delegating exactly 3 sentences to each subject.

On DDJ: People bitch about the way you type because it's ANNOYING. For someone who wants to be liked so well, you're absolutely AWFUL at conforming and/or adapting to social norms. Everything else the others have said is 561% correct.

On Ursa: Clearly she's the only one in the family who has a soul, so that's why Zuko gravitates towards her. Azula thinks(or can see) that she favors Zuko, so she feels resentment to the point where she thinks Ursa might hate her. How is this so hard to figure out?

On Earth King casting: Make it Stephen Colbert. Then cast him again as Bosco. Then again as EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER, except...

On Toph Casting: She's the only one who isn't Stephen, but is instead the drummer from Crash and the Boys. That middle finger holds the authority that the 3rd best character (behind Wang Fire and boomerang) need. Alison Pill must be killed with fire, for it is a hideous thing that frightens children.

....possibly kill it with......Wang Fire?


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 15, 2011)

Alright, no more DDJ stuff. 

Anyway, Colbert can't be every character because Gene Hackman has to be Zhao.

And enough of the Ursa nonsense. She killed Azulon because she had to; Azula's feeling of neglect are all either self-inflicted or imagined. Azula always lies. And she hurts turtle-ducks, and it's well established that Ursa will have NONE of that.


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## Noah (Mar 15, 2011)

dBs said:


> Anyway, Colbert can't be every character because Gene Hackman has to be Zhao.




Incorrect statement! Zhao will be played by a Gene Hackman being played by Stephen Colbert. Cake will be played by a Taquito.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 15, 2011)

dBs said:


> And enough of the Ursa nonsense. She killed Azulon because she had to; Azula's feeling of neglect are all either self-inflicted or imagined. Azula always lies. And she hurts turtle-ducks, and it's well established that Ursa will have NONE of that.


I know you said enough about Ursa...but dang, I still can't believe Avatar actually made her kill Azulon off.  That and Jet's death was probably the most darkest parts in the show that I can remember xD

I expected to see her holding a bloody dagger the next scene >.<


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## Superstarseven (Mar 15, 2011)

With all this talk about Toph before, might any of you be interested in how she would sound as a Teenager?

16 Year old Toph


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 15, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I know you said enough about Ursa...but dang, I still can't believe Avatar actually made her kill Azulon off.  That and Jet's death was probably the most darkest parts in the show that I can remember xD
> 
> I expected to see her holding a bloody dagger the next scene >.<



Ooo, darkest moment in Avatar. That sounds like a top 5...


That I'll have to do tomorrow. 


Jet's Death and the circumstances of Azulon's demise are definitely contenders. I'm pretty sure what #1 will be, though, and it's neither.


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## Jena (Mar 15, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> With all this talk about Toph before, might any of you be interested in how she would sound as a Teenager?
> 
> 16 Year old Toph



Her IMDB page has the most unintentionally depressing sentence:


> Trivia: Said the last line ever in the Nickelodeon animated series "Avatar: The Last Airbender" (2005).


Sadly, that is also all the info that she is afforded. No summary, no birthdate. Just that one sentence.


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## Gunners (Mar 15, 2011)

Where would you rank the benders without their ability to bend?

I mean I always saw people like Zuko, Azula and Aang as characters who could get by on their physical abilities need be, Iroh too when I think about his moment during the eclipse. Toph and Katara I see as weaklings without bending but I don't know where to place Ozai. His physique seems good but when he was challenged by Zuko during the eclipse he sat down.


> I know you said enough about Ursa...but dang, I still can't believe Avatar actually made her kill Azulon off.  That and Jet's death was probably the most darkest parts in the show that I can remember xD


Pales in comparison to Sozen using the comet to roast the Air nomads out of existence.


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## Narcissus (Mar 15, 2011)

dBs said:


> Ooo, darkest moment in Avatar. That sounds like a top 5...
> 
> 
> That I'll have to do tomorrow.
> ...





Azulon's demise, Jet's death, Katara and Sokka's mother's death, Zuko getting his face burned, Zhao's death...?

Bonus: Bloodbending :ho


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 15, 2011)

When I made my previous post in this thread, I was in an extremely emotional state of mind, but now I have had several hours of sleep and thus can post in a more rational manner.

Reikai Demon, your points in your previous posts are all valid, and I have become weary of this discussion, so I shall accept that you have your own opinions on certain subjects and that I cannot change them. Hopefully, this shall provide proper closure on this subject.

Now, to return to the actual subject of the series, I noticed that benders of different elements used their powers in conjunction, most notably when Katara and Toph purified the water of the village of Jang Hui, or using different elements to bend the same substance, as evidenced by Katara and Toph fighting each other with mud. However, I noticed that an airbender and a firebender never used their powers in conjunction, which is very unfortunate, as I am certain such a combination would be very effective, with the airbender using their powers to feed the flames of the firebender, making them even more powerful.

What does everyone else say about that? Would it not have been awesome to have seen Aang and Zuko, for example, create a massive swirling cyclone of flame when fighting together? I certainly would like to have seen such an occurrence.


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## Banhammer (Mar 15, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Azulon's demise, Jet's death, Katara and Sokka's mother's death, Zuko getting his face burned, Zhao's death...?
> 
> Bonus: Bloodbending :ho



The Air Nomads Genocide
The Southern Water Tribe Death Camps
Bloodbending
Ursa Shenanigans
Jet's death

Those are pretty much top 4


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## Jena (Mar 15, 2011)

Don't forget Tales of Ba Sing Se!
I know I'm not the only one who got teary-eyed over Uncle Iroh's day...


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## Burke (Mar 15, 2011)

I don think were going for sadness, more on the side of darkneeeessss


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## Glued (Mar 15, 2011)

This thread lacks combustion man


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## Burke (Mar 15, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> This thread lacks combustion man



Played by Vin Deisel of course


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 15, 2011)

Yeah, I mean... the genocide of the Air Nomads was dark, but I'm talking about things that actually happened on the show. The darkest scenes/episodes, you could say.


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## Burke (Mar 15, 2011)

dBs said:


> Yeah, I mean... the genocide of the Air Nomads was dark, but I'm talking about things that actually happened on the show. The darkest scenes/episodes, you could say.



That time the cabbage man's cabbage cart got destroyed.
I cried.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 15, 2011)

N??ps said:


> That time the cabbage man's cabbage cart got destroyed.
> I cried.



Don't motherfucking blow my #1 you wanker.


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## Noah (Mar 15, 2011)

dBs said:


> Don't motherfucking blow my #1 you wanker.



How about that one time that guy went into a seizure and no one gave a shit? He could have died and no one bothered to pay attention to all the foam coming out of his mouth? Yo, fuck Kyoshi Island. That place is a little too hood.


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## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 15, 2011)

Noah said:


> Hrm....I want to respond to things, but I have no energy. So I'm delegating exactly 3 sentences to each subject.
> 
> On DDJ: People bitch about the way you type because it's ANNOYING. For someone who wants to be liked so well, you're absolutely AWFUL at conforming and/or adapting to social norms. Everything else the others have said is 561% correct.
> 
> ...



You know allison pill doesnt look to bad in pillars of earth.  Although it could just be the chainmail, armor, and sword thats doing it for me 

also The Rock for combustion man or sokka and kotarra's dad, Samo Hung for Iroh and michael cera is shot with a bazooka if he even thinks about trying out for a part.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 15, 2011)

For me, the some of the darkest elements (not specific scenes or episodes) of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ are as follows, in no particular order (covered with spoiler tags because of their length).
*Spoiler*: _#1_ 



*The Air Nomad Genocide*
The concept of this, an entire ethnic group being violently eliminated, was something that is not often seen in stories aimed for a younger audience, helping the viewers to realize how series it is to exterminate an entire culture simply because of one person within that culture, which has happened in actuality only too often, unfortunately. This occurrence was the driving force for the entire series, setting into motion the plot and events that affected all of the main characters, either directly or indirectly, most notably Aang, for he lost everything that was familiar to him, making him a stranger in a world that had changed very drastically from the one that he had known before.



*Spoiler*: _#2_ 



*The Fire Nation's Treatment of Enemy Benders*
Members of the Fire Nation's military were shown to treat benders from other factions with extreme prejudice and cruelty; such as locking them in cages and depriving them of both food and sleep to prevent them from being able to use their bending abilities. This helped to establish the fact that the Fire Nation's military was one of the major enemies of the series and show that war was a very nasty and horrifying experience. Another major aspect of this theme was that of vengeance and extremism; both Hama and Jet lost their families to the war and thus hated the Fire Nation, but they each retaliated against it by using methods that were just as extreme and violent as the methods that the Fire Nation used. The war also caused Katara and Sokka to lose their mother, serving as a major motivation for each of them, although the two of them used different strategies to cope with it, one far more aggressive than the other. Katara became enraged when she found the man who had killed her mother, and very nearly killed him for revenge, but she ultimately decided to spare him, even if she did not forgive him, another important lesson for the audience to learn.



*Spoiler*: _#3_ 



*Zuko's Backstory and the Fire Nation's Royal Family*
Zuko is one of the most complex and conflicted characters in the series, or at least he is, in my mind. His father hated him and treated him as if he were worthless while favoring Zuko's sister, Azula, who was more talented as a firebender and popular than was Zuko. Zuko's mother did love him very much, but she mysteriously vanished when he was still a child, leaving him defenseless against his father and sister, and it was several years later that his father burned his face and then exiled him from the Fire Nation, merely because he spoke out of turn and _had a perfectly legitimate point for doing so._ It was also revealed that Zuko's father and uncle had a relationship similar to that of Zuko and Azula when they were younger, which led to Oxai having tension with his own father. Then there were hints that Ursa somehow was involved with the death of Azulon, Zuko's grandfather, and even before that, Sozin, the ancestor of Azulon, Ozai, Zuko, and Azula, was a cruel and despotic tyrant who wished to conquer the world. Therefore, the entire royal family had a history of deception, parental favoritism and abuse, and violent succession of father by son. This again was an element not seen very frequently in western animation before and helped the audience to develop a better understanding of Zuko and what factors helped shape him into the person who he was in the series. Perhaps some viewers had harsh family backgrounds and therefore could sympathize with the suffering that Zuko had endured.


Those are my favorite dark elements from the story, and if anyone is wondering why I needed to explain each on in detail, I was providing my own analysis of each one and how I believed that it was important, which is what DBS (formerly known as Jove) did when he made his lists of the "Top Ten Locations in _Avatar: TLA"_ or "Top Ten Episodes of _Avatar: TLA."_ I hope that I was sufficiently thorough in my explanations and that my posts is easily comprehensible to anyone who may read it.

As for the subject of possible actors to play the characters in a live-action _Avatar: TLA_ movie, I would suggest Dwayne Johnson to play the Boulder, as the Boulder was modeled after him (when he was still known as "The Rock"), so it would be a perfect fit, in my mind.


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## Glued (Mar 15, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Played by Vin Deisel of course



Not just that, but when you think about it, you realize that Combustion Man is the only Avatar character to actually die on-screen.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 15, 2011)

Actually, I made a Top 61 Episode of Avatar list. 


That's a great point about the Fire Nation's treatment of enemy benders, especially prisoners. The squalor the prisoners lived in is, unfortunately, historically accurate.


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## Jena (Mar 15, 2011)

N??ps said:


> I don think were going for sadness, more on the side of darkneeeessss



Oh pish posh. ....


Live action movie: How about Viggo Mortensen for Sokka/Katara's father?


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## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 15, 2011)

I would also like to see Piandao played by Ken Watanabe


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## Narcissus (Mar 15, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Not just that, but when you think about it, you realize that Combustion Man is the only Avatar character to actually die on-screen.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 15, 2011)

Hm, so since my last post, I've been trying to think of _other_ dark moments. I can only recall the Airbenders being wiped out AND Iroh's son's death... >.<


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 15, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When I made my previous post in this thread, I was in an extremely emotional state of mind, but now I have had several hours of sleep and thus can post in a more rational manner.
> 
> Reikai Demon, your points in your previous posts are all valid, and I have become weary of this discussion, so I shall accept that you have your own opinions on certain subjects and that I cannot change them. Hopefully, this shall provide proper closure on this subject.
> 
> ...


I see problems with that, Aang is pacifistic, that sounds too indiscriminate of an attack; it'll harm too many people. Zuko on the other hand, is a redeemed person, for both his own sake, and the story, it would look bad for his image as a hero now to use unnecessary dangerous moves. The gaang aren't killers and maimers, they mostly incapacitate and run.

And that whole idea just doesn't mesh well with the kind of show Avatar is.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 16, 2011)

dBs said:


> Actually, I made a Top 61 Episode of Avatar list.



There are 61 episodes total in the series, so were you essentially ranking all the episodes in order from your least to most favorite?



ReikaiDemon said:


> I see problems with that, Aang is pacifistic, that sounds too indiscriminate of an attack; it'll harm too many people. Zuko on the other hand, is a redeemed person, for both his own sake, and the story, it would look bad for his image as a hero now to use unnecessary dangerous moves. The gaang aren't killers and maimers, they mostly incapacitate and run.
> 
> And that whole idea just doesn't mesh well with the kind of show Avatar is.



Yes, I suppose that that is true, and your second point likely excludes more aggressive benders from using such a tactic, as well.



The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> I would also like to see Piandao played by Ken Watanabe



That would certainly be a good match, but I would not mind seeing Jackie Chan or Jet Li play him or another character. If not Piandao, what other characters could they play? What about Michelle Yeoh or Ziyi Zhang? I can imagine Yeoh as Ursa, Kya, Yangchen, or even Kyoshi and Zhang as a younger female character, such as Azula, Mai, or Suki (she is 32 years old, but she has a very youthful appearance, which would assist her in playing such roles).


----------



## Burke (Mar 16, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> There are 61 episodes total in the series, so were you essentially ranking all the episodes in order from your least to most favorite?



Jove loves all of the episodes, except one, which he explained, so it is more like a ranking of his favorite to his most favorite favorite ever times a thousand.


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## Nodonn (Mar 16, 2011)

> There are 61 episodes total in the series, so were you essentially ranking all the episodes in order from your least to most favorite?



That's what you would think, but he actually opened the episodes in notepad, assigned a number to each character and added all the numbers up. The ranking is based on those numbers.


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## VerdantVenus (Mar 16, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Jove loves all of the episodes, except one, which he explained, so it is more like a ranking of his favorite to his most favorite favorite ever times a thousand.


The Beach is his favorite


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 16, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> That's what you would think, but he actually opened the episodes in notepad, assigned a number to each character and added all the numbers up. The ranking is based on those numbers.




This ain't no notepad:


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## Burke (Mar 16, 2011)

dBs said:


> This ain't no notepad:



In the game, this is what we call "getting joved"


----------



## Shade (Mar 16, 2011)

Note how he places The Beach on a completely different level than the other episodes. Must have a very special place for him, that episode.


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## Superstarseven (Mar 16, 2011)

That episode was still better than a good 80% of Western Animation.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 16, 2011)

Shade said:


> Note how he places The Beach on a completely  different level than the other episodes. Must have a very special place  for him, that episode.


And it's in red


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## Koi (Mar 16, 2011)

Joveku, your handwriting is sweet.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 17, 2011)

That's what it looks like when I know people are going to be seeing it. And even then, it's a very careful version of it. Most of the time, it looks like this:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.



I also wouldn't disagree that The Beach was better than 80% of all Western animation. It just happens to be worse than 100% of all other Avatar episode.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 17, 2011)

I do not understand why some viewers do not like _The Beach_ (the episode). I also usually disregard episodes in fictional series that are centered on a beach or hot spring as filler and fanservice (and an excuse to have the characters wear skimpy clothing), and while this series' beach episode did indeed feature its characters wearing skimpy clothing, it also contained important character depth and development for the four main characters from the Fire Nation (Zuko, Azula, Ty Lee, and Mai), which was very important later in the series. Plus, even apart from the character development, I found the rest of the episode, including the game of _Kuai_ Ball, the party at Chan's house, and the attack of Combustion Man at the end, to be very entertaining, so I believe that it was definitely an important episode for the series overall and wonder why other people seem to dislike it.


----------



## Glued (Mar 17, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> That episode was still better than a good 80% of Western Animation.



[YOUTUBE]5BaOvM9jXKg[/YOUTUBE]

Only good thing about that episode was Combustion Man kicking ass.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Only good thing about that episode was Combustion Man kicking ass.



So, are you saying that you have no interest in the sights of numerous nubile and physically-fit young people, wearing skimpy clothing, engaging in intense physical activity to the point that they are panting and sweating? Or what about the insights into the psyches of Zuko, Azula, Mai, or Ty Lee, in which the audience learned that Mai and Azula are not as perfect as they seem to be or that Ty Lee's overly-optimistic personality is actually her method of coping with insecurity from having _six_ sisters who were all identical to her in appearance? And what about the four of them exacting vengeance on Chan and Ruon-Jian and bonding with each other in the process? Surely, those were enjoyable and substantial aspects of that episode, as well?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 17, 2011)

I love it when insights are explicitly told to the audience by the characters themselves. It's much cleaner that way.


----------



## DracoStorm (Mar 17, 2011)

The Beach was awful.  Not only did it fail when it came to fanservice (Nick allowed bikinis on their other shows but they have to wear sarongs and shirts on this one? Please) but the 'character' part was so forced and poorly executed it was painful.  It's like the writers said 'we never really developed these characters, so let's make them read some bios around a campfire for two minutes to fix that'.  Considering these characters get written out of the show a few episodes later, it's clear they didn't care about them much.  Plus the Combustion Man stuff was clearly there because God forbid we have an episode with no action in it (I guess the kids would get bored) and ruined the whole atmosphere of the episode :\  It felt very fanfic-y and amateurish with how they tried to inject some 'depth' into these one dimensional characters; especially when most of it is never mentioned again in the show.


----------



## Glued (Mar 17, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> The Beach was awful.  Not only did it fail when it came to fanservice (Nick allowed bikinis on their other shows but they have to wear sarongs and shirts on this one? Please) but the 'character' part was so forced and poorly executed it was painful.  It's like the writers said 'we never really developed these characters, so let's make them read some bios around a campfire for two minutes to fix that'.  Considering these characters get written out of the show a few episodes later, it's clear they didn't care about them much.  Plus the Combustion Man stuff was clearly there because God forbid we have an episode with no action in it (I guess the kids would get bored) and ruined the whole atmosphere of the episode :\  It felt very fanfic-y and amateurish with how they tried to inject some 'depth' into these one dimensional characters; especially when most of it is never mentioned again in the show.


 Combustion Man was awesome.



DemonDragonJ said:


> So, are you saying that you have no interest in the sights of numerous nubile and physically-fit young people, wearing skimpy clothing, engaging in intense physical activity to the point that they are panting and sweating? Or what about the insights into the psyches of Zuko, Azula, Mai, or Ty Lee, in which the audience learned that Mai and Azula are not as perfect as they seem to be or that Ty Lee's overly-optimistic personality is actually her method of coping with insecurity from having _six_ sisters who were all identical to her in appearance? And what about the four of them exacting vengeance on Chan and Ruon-Jian and bonding with each other in the process? Surely, those were enjoyable and substantial aspects of that episode, as well?



Only if its all girls.
2) Mai and Tai Lee were forced to reveal their pasts when it wasn't even necessary. Always show, don't tell.

I remember in Mummy's Alive when Presley found out his father was working with the bad guys. Nephitiri sat down with Presley and told him the story of how she won her first chariot race, and her father's best compliment was that he wished she had been her son. She didn't tell how she felt about it, anyone could figure it out.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 17, 2011)

dBs said:


> I love it when insights are explicitly told to the audience by the characters themselves. It's much cleaner that way.



Are you being sarcastic, or serious with that statement? I honestly am not certain.

Regardless of that, I had no problem at all with the manner in which the character exposition was executed. Mai and Ty Lee shared their stories with Zuko and Azula after the siblings spoke of their own internal conflicts, perhaps as a method for consoling them. After all four of them had shared their stories with each other, either Ty Lee stated how she felt better and the situation seemed to be less tense than what it had been before, and that is the reason that I believe that the story writers had the characters share their feelings verbally, so that they could form a better relationship with each other.


----------



## Glued (Mar 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you being sarcastic, or serious with that statement? I honestly am not certain.
> 
> Regardless of that, I had no problem at all with the manner in which the character exposition was executed. Mai and Ty Lee shared their stories with Zuko and Azula after the siblings spoke of their own internal conflicts, perhaps as a method for consoling them. After all four of them had shared their stories with each other, either Ty Lee stated how she felt better and the situation seemed to be less tense than what it had been before, and that is the reason that I believe that the story writers had the characters share their feelings verbally, so that they could form a better relationship with each other.



No, Mai was just being catty with Tai Lee and Azula was teasing Mai, which of course coincidentally happens to be at the same time that Zuko is taking a piss. It was poorly executed.

Remember when Zuko was sneaking into the Northern Water Tribe stronghold to kidnap the Avatar. Iroh was so worried that he told Zuko how Liu Ten died and how he considered Zuko to be his own.

That is how its done right.


----------



## Jena (Mar 17, 2011)

I liked the Beach. Guess I'm one of the few. I thought it was kind of funny.
It wasn't my favorite episode, but I enjoyed it.


----------



## Burke (Mar 17, 2011)

dBs said:


> I love it when insights are explicitly told to the audience by the characters themselves. It's much cleaner that way.



Ah Jove, the master as usual.

You know, i thought about you the other day, because the opening sequence to the new movie rango has the same sort of thing. Youd have to see for yourself. The movie actually is great though.


----------



## DracoStorm (Mar 17, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Combustion Man was awesome.


 I hated him.  He had zero personality, had zero explanation for his powers or anything, and pretty much only existed to let the heroes fight something for the first half of the season to keep the kid's entertained because Zuko and Azula were busy having beach parties and sitting around. As soon as stuff happened he was written off the show, thankfully, and never mentioned again.  Really awful character, because he's a non-characters more or less.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 17, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> I hated him.  He had zero personality, had zero explanation for his powers or anything, and pretty much only existed to let the heroes fight something for the first half of the season to keep the kid's entertained because Zuko and Azula were busy having beach parties and sitting around. As soon as stuff happened he was written off the show, thankfully, and never mentioned again.  Really awful character, because he's a non-characters more or less.



That is one way of interpreting Combustion Man, but I prefer to view him as an antagonist who was created by the storywriters to perform one particular, specific function, and he performed that one particular, specific function well. You are correct in saying that he had "zero personality" and "zero explanation for his powers" because he was _not supposed_ to be a deep or complex character in the way that Zuko or Azula, for example, were. He was merely a recurring villain for several episodes who gave the heroes a serious challenge but was not important to the overall story.

However, I do believe that that was a very regrettable decision by the story writers, as Combustion Man certainly had the potential to be far more significant to the overall story, and his unique form of firebending was also very fascinating; it could possibly have been one of the most powerful forms of bending seen in the series, but because of his lack of relevance to the overall story, it was not explored in greater detail.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 18, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> I hated him.  He had zero personality, had zero explanation for his powers or anything, and pretty much only existed to let the heroes fight something for the first half of the season to keep the kid's entertained because Zuko and Azula were busy having beach parties and sitting around. As soon as stuff happened he was written off the show, thankfully, and never mentioned again.  Really awful character, because he's a non-characters more or less.



I don't think he was supposed to have any type of personality. Just a guy set out to do a job. I enjoyed how fearsome he was. Guy was a monster with an incredible power. Also you have great insight into the show, you must have sat in on some writer's meetings.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 18, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> I hated him.  He had zero personality, had zero explanation for his powers or anything, and pretty much only existed to let the heroes fight something for the first half of the season to keep the kid's entertained because Zuko and Azula were busy having beach parties and sitting around. As soon as stuff happened he was written off the show, thankfully, and never mentioned again.  Really awful character, because he's a non-characters more or less.



I don't think he was supposed to have a personality. He was there to be a dead-set Assassin and he preformed that job well...enough. xD


----------



## DracoStorm (Mar 18, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I don't think he was supposed to have any type of personality. Just a guy set out to do a job. I enjoyed how fearsome he was. Guy was a monster with an incredible power. Also you have great insight into the show, you must have sat in on some writer's meetings.


 I've interned long enough to learn how executives think in television; and I like to think it's pretty obvious that's why he was introduced and dropped so quickly. ^^;   I just didn't like him.  The 'threatening' aspect didn't even work for me either since this is Avatar we're talking about; where they're not even allowed to punch each other; so I find trying to play up 'scary' or 'threatening' aspects in American kid's shows pointless.


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## Ms. Jove (Mar 18, 2011)

I don't see anything wrong with the assessment, SS7. The only flaw was that Combustion Man wasn't a disappointment in concept, just execution.


The idea that "threatening" is a pointless sentiment in Avatar is complete balderdash. Azula played that role in the entirety of Book 2.


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## Superstarseven (Mar 18, 2011)

It's not executives that were running Avatar. 
Perhaps it if it were a show that was meant to push merchandise, then it'd be a different story. Purely creator driven for the most part.


----------



## Time Expired (Mar 18, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> I hated him.  He had zero personality, had zero explanation for his powers or anything, and pretty much only existed to let the heroes fight something for the first half of the season to keep the kid's entertained because Zuko and Azula were busy having beach parties and sitting around. As soon as stuff happened he was written off the show, thankfully, and never mentioned again.  Really awful character, because he's a non-characters more or less.



:ho so much hatred.  I love it.


----------



## Glued (Mar 18, 2011)

combustion man has a beard and body parts

all arguments are invalid


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 18, 2011)

Tenzin, the child of Aang and Korra, will be the first canonical multi-ethnic character in the series, so I wonder what coloration he will have. Both Aang and Katara have dark hair, but Aang has fair skin and gray eyes while Katara has tanned skin and blue eyes, so while it is likely that eh will have dark hair, his eye and skin color are less certain. However, I imagine that if he will be an airbender, he will likely have fair skin and gray eyes, as did Aang. What does everyone else believe?

Ben Girmm, I shall give you +rep for that reference to _Mummies Alive._ I saw only three or four episodes of that series, but from what little I saw of it, it was an excellent western animated series for its time. Unfortunately, it has now vanished into obscurity, as no person to whom I have spoken has ever heard of it.


----------



## Jena (Mar 18, 2011)

Who is this "combustion man" that you speak of? I know him as Sparky.


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## Superstarseven (Mar 18, 2011)

He might prefer his full name, Sparky Sparky Boom Man.


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## Glued (Mar 18, 2011)

Combustion Man, Is Not Amused


----------



## Glued (Mar 18, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Tenzin, the child of Aang and Korra, will be the first canonical multi-ethnic character in the series, so I wonder what coloration he will have. Both Aang and Katara have dark hair, but Aang has fair skin and gray eyes while Katara has tanned skin and blue eyes, so while it is likely that eh will have dark hair, his eye and skin color are less certain. However, I imagine that if he will be an airbender, he will likely have fair skin and gray eyes, as did Aang. What does everyone else believe?
> 
> Ben Girmm, I shall give you +rep for that reference to _Mummies Alive._ I saw only three or four episodes of that series, but from what little I saw of it, it was an excellent western animated series for its time. Unfortunately, it has now vanished into obscurity, as no person to whom I have spoken has ever heard of it.



All episodes are on youtube.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 18, 2011)

I have to half agree on DracoStorm's Combustion Man Assessment.  While I don't think it's necessary to give his character much depth, that's not why he was there, I really didn't like the way got rid of him.  I just felt that given how powerful he was, they should have had a much more climactic battle as a send off.  Instead he just became a plot device to get Zuko in the group, and once that was achieved, they pretty much tossed him off a cliff because the story didn't need him anymore.


(I actually brought him back in my fanfic just so I could give him a more awesome "send off" battle.)


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 18, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Tenzin, the child of Aang and Korra, will be the first canonical multi-ethnic character in the series, so I wonder what coloration he will have. Both Aang and Katara have dark hair, but Aang has fair skin and gray eyes while Katara has tanned skin and blue eyes, so while it is likely that eh will have dark hair, his eye and skin color are less certain. However, I imagine that if he will be an airbender, he will likely have fair skin and gray eyes, as did Aang. What does everyone else believe?


Why is that important? 

And Ethnic doesn't mean different skin color only.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 18, 2011)

I think it's an interesting thought, though. Things were pretty homogeneous in the four nations...


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 18, 2011)

Ah, Jove's back.

You have to see this dB'S guy, he's so much like you, it's creepy


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 18, 2011)

I don't see why so many people don't like The Beach episode 

It was a perfectly fine episode


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 18, 2011)

The Beach felt too forced. I did at least get some laughs out of it though, but the development part was just messy. Also didn't like The Great Divide.

Combustion Man was an interesting concept with a lot of potential gone to waste. He was meant to just be an assassin, I know, but I agree that his defeat and overall use was a little too underwhelming. But sometimes fiction simply needs devices to take up time, and he was a really good and creative character made to accompish just that.

Still, I would've like some explaination about his brand of firebending.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 18, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> The Beach felt too forced. I did at least get some laughs out of it though, but the development part was just messy. Also didn't like The Great Divide.
> 
> Combustion Man was an interesting concept with a lot of potential gone to waste. He was meant to just be an assassin, I know, but I agree that his defeat and overall use was a little too underwhelming. But sometimes fiction simply needs devices to take up time, and he was a really good and creative character made to accompish just that.
> 
> Still, I would've like some explaination about his brand of firebending.


I'm gonna laugh if Zuko was being a skinflint and hired CM because he was a bargain bin mercenary who sells merely because of his limited gimmick.

How else would he have lost his arm?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 19, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Why is that important?
> 
> And Ethnic doesn't mean different skin color only.



It is important because his heritage will help to promote understanding and cooperation between the different groups of people in the world. And I know perfectly well that ethnicity is not limited to a person's physical coloration, but surely there is nothing wrong with me speculating what Tenzin's coloration will be (especially considering that his parents have different coloration in hair, eyes, and skin)?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 19, 2011)

You disappoint me, Avatar fandom


----------



## Noah (Mar 19, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You disappoint me, Avatar fandom



Ehhh. It's great in theory, awful in execution. Be less disappointed in the fandom, and more in the collective intarwarbz.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 19, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You disappoint me, Avatar fandom



... 

That's like, the silliest meme I've ever seen...

Okay, probably not _the_ silliest, but still.


----------



## DracoStorm (Mar 19, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> It's not executives that were running Avatar.
> Perhaps it if it were a show that was meant to push merchandise, then it'd be a different story. Purely creator driven for the most part.


 Avatar had quite a lot of executive meddling to it; the third season especially had to be rewritten a lot due to executives dipping their fingers into the punch bowl (I wouldn't be surprised if Combustion Man was one of those additions). The writers mentioned before about a lot of rewrites and delays because of it. I think the existence of the movie would be enough to tell you that. And let's be honest, the only reason it didn't push merchandise more was because all the merchandising lines they had bombed.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 19, 2011)

Where exactly are you getting this from, my friend?
Is this inside info that the online fandom wasn't privy to?
I haven't even heard this from the most hardcore Avatar fan.


----------



## Glued (Mar 19, 2011)

Wait a minute, Korra is set in a steampunk era.

What if this era has its own combustion man who can power a steam punk armor suit using his combustion powers.

That would be so awesome.


----------



## Nodonn (Mar 19, 2011)

''A movie was made about the first season, therefore the third season was heavily rewritten because of executive meddling.''

I'm not sure I follow the logic there, care to enlighten me?


----------



## Gunners (Mar 19, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> ''A movie was made about the first season, therefore the third season was heavily rewritten because of executive meddling.''
> 
> I'm not sure I follow the logic there, care to enlighten me?



News to me, maybe they thought the first movie would be a big success so they wanted the third season to be easy to turn in to a movie.


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## ElementX (Mar 19, 2011)

Pics or it didn't happen.


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## DracoStorm (Mar 20, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> ''A movie was made about the first season, therefore the third season was heavily rewritten because of executive meddling.''
> 
> I'm not sure I follow the logic there, care to enlighten me?


 I mean executives definitely have a big hand in the show as they milked out a live-action Shamalmayanman movie, which the creators have all but said they were against from the start.  Executive suits supersede the 'creators' all the time.

The third season rewrites have nothing to do with the movie, just more executive meddling.  That's why there was such a huge year+ gap in the third season between episodes; they had to change and rewrite a lot of things.  For example, a promotional flier they handed out (for I think the DVD release) said they originally wanted to do a few TV movies to end the series, but those got scrapped once the LA movie was announced and went into production, hence why the ending to the show was awful and left a lot of stuff unresolved like Zuko's mom and all the side characters; they had to kind of rewrite things to beating Ozai so suddenly (and why Azula suddenly goes crazy with no build up) .


----------



## Jena (Mar 20, 2011)

The movie came out 2 years after the third season ended....


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## DracoStorm (Mar 20, 2011)

It was in production back when the third season was.  It takes like 2+ years to make a movie on average.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 20, 2011)

Nearly every television series suffers from "executive meddling" at some point in its existence. For example, _Gargoyles_ lasted for three seasons, but after the second season ended, the Walt Disney Corporation hired a new team of story writers to write the third season, which resulted in that season having overall poorer plots and character development in comparison to the first two seasons. The reason for which the Walt Disney Corporation did this was that the series was not popular enough and they did not wish to invest in it any further, and for that reason, neither fans of the series nor the creator of the series, Greg Weisman, himself consider the third season to be canonical. The same happened with _Reboot,_ my favorite western animated series ever; the first two seasons had strict censorship of violence and sexuality, but when the series was moved to a different television channel for its third season, that censorship greatly decreased. The series originally ended after its third season, with a very satisfying conclusion (in my mind) to its story, but it was renewed for a fourth season several years after the third season had ended, which resulted in that season being (again, in my mind) poorly-written in comparison to the third season and then ending with a cliffhanger (albeit one of the most frustrating yet epic cliffhangers ever, in my mind), and currently, there is no news (last I checked) as to whether either _Reboot_ or _Gargoyles_ will ever have new canonical incarnations.

As unfortunate as it may be, this phenomenon is all too common, and even _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ seems to have suffered from it, but, unlike the other series that I mentioned above, it seemed to endure that executive meddling and had a very awesome and dramatically satisfying conclusion to its story. Therefore, I am hopeful that the new series also will be able to endure any executive meddling that it may encounter.


----------



## Glued (Mar 20, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Nearly every television series suffers from "executive meddling" at some point in its existence*. For example, _Gargoyles_ lasted for three seasons, but after the second season ended, the Walt Disney Corporation hired a new team of story writers to write the third season, which resulted in that season having overall poorer plots and character development in comparison to the first two seasons. The reason for which the Walt Disney Corporation did this was that the series was not popular enough and they did not wish to invest in it any further, and for that reason, neither fans of the series nor the creator of the series, Greg Weisman, himself consider the third season to be canonical. The same happened with _Reboot,_ my favorite western animated series ever; the first two seasons had strict censorship of violence and sexuality, but when the series was moved to a different television channel for its third season, that censorship greatly decreased. The series originally ended after its third season, with a very satisfying conclusion (in my mind) to its story, but it was renewed for a fourth season several years after the third season had ended, which resulted in that season being (again, in my mind) poorly-written in comparison to the third season and then ending with a cliffhanger (albeit one of the most frustrating yet epic cliffhangers ever, in my mind), and currently, there is no news (last I checked) as to whether either _Reboot_ or _Gargoyles_ will ever have new canonical incarnations.
> 
> As unfortunate as it may be, this phenomenon is all too common, and even _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ seems to have suffered from it, but, unlike the other series that I mentioned above, it seemed to endure that executive meddling and had a very awesome and dramatically satisfying conclusion to its story. Therefore, I am hopeful that the new series also will be able to endure any executive meddling that it may encounter.



Rough Necks, Starship troopers only had 3 episodes before prematurely ending.

However I am thankful that stuff like Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys ended on a good note.

Beast Wars had Skorpanok and Terrasaur die offscreen

Street Sharks got overextended with the Dinovengers

Yeah, Captain Simian is the only thing I can think of that seemed free from meddling


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 20, 2011)

I'd love to hear a source on these rewrites, because the only thing I've heard about executive balderdash regarding Book 3 was the hesitation to renew, which was the ultimate reason for the gap.

Executive meddling has about the same merit as saying a show is "rushed;" it's an easy, facile phrase that's a safe way to avoid any sort of legitimate insight. Let me point out again that executive meddling often leads to more shrewd and creative writing.


Any idea that Mike and Bryan were against the movie from the start, or have ever even remotely hinted at this, is false.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 20, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> The third season rewrites have nothing to do with the movie, just more executive meddling.  That's why there was such a huge year+ gap in the third season between episodes; they had to change and rewrite a lot of things.  For example, a promotional flier they handed out (for I think the DVD release) said they originally wanted to do a few TV movies to end the series, but those got scrapped once the LA movie was announced and went into production, hence why the ending to the show was awful and left a lot of stuff unresolved like Zuko's mom and all the side characters; they had to kind of rewrite things to beating Ozai so suddenly (and why Azula suddenly goes crazy with no build up) .




Whoa you went off there. The third season was greenlighted pretty late, right around the ending of Book 2. I'm not sure when the writers came back from their retreat to brainstorm ideas and started working on the show again but that explains that agonizing 9 month wait. As for the 8 month wait between November and July, Western Air Temple and Firebending Masters was seen in Canada in January of 2008. The Boiling rock 2 parter was available on DVD in May of 2008. Now the U.S. airings for the remaining episodes starting with Western Air Temple started the week of July 14. Massive rewrites don't really fit into that timeline.

I do know that Mike and Bryan worked on the finale up until the screening in L.A. which was probably sometime in June. Also I remember that flier, the fandom went crazy when it was made public. Mike and Bryan were asked about it and they were dumbfounded. I certainly don't remember reading anything about them wanting to end the series with 3 hour movies. Why have a 4 episode series finale? Anyway that explains all that. You can think what you want to about the other stuff, I'm not going to bother. Also if you can get those quotes from John O'Bryan, Aaron and Elizabeth Ehasz about all that executive meddling, I'd absolutely love to read it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 21, 2011)

I noticed that the currency in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ has no name (it was simply referred to as "copper pieces" or "gold pieces" in _The Waterbending Scroll_ and never given a name at all in any other episode). I understand that this may have been done for the convenience of the audience, but with all the detail that the creators of the franchise put into the rest of the world, its people, its culture, and its supernatural elements, I expected them to have a name for the currency, as well. What does everyone else say about that?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Mar 21, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I noticed that the currency in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ has no name (it was simply referred to as "copper pieces" or "gold pieces" in _The Waterbending Scroll_ and never given a name at all in any other episode). I understand that this may have been done for the convenience of the audience, but with all the detail that the creators of the franchise put into the rest of the world, its people, its culture, and its supernatural elements, I expected them to have a name for the currency, as well. What does everyone else say about that?


What kind of name(s) were you expecting? For the currency as a whole or the individual coins?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 21, 2011)

Board Foot said:


> What kind of name(s) were you expecting? For the currency as a whole or the individual coins?



I was expecting a name for both the currency as a whole and the individual coins, preferably something that sounded vaguely Chinese or Japanese, to keep with the theme of the series.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 21, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I was expecting a name for both the currency as a whole and the individual coins, preferably something that sounded vaguely Chinese or Japanese, to keep with the theme of the series.



I say we call them Ching-Chongs.


----------



## Jena (Mar 21, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I say we call them Ching-Chongs.




You'll be right at home at UCLA.


----------



## Wan (Mar 21, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> I mean executives definitely have a big hand in the show as they milked out a live-action Shamalmayanman movie, which the creators have all but said they were against from the start.  Executive suits supersede the 'creators' all the time.
> 
> The third season rewrites have nothing to do with the movie, just more executive meddling.  That's why there was such a huge year+ gap in the third season between episodes; they had to change and rewrite a lot of things.  For example, a promotional flier they handed out (for I think the DVD release) said they originally wanted to do a few TV movies to end the series, but those got scrapped once the LA movie was announced and went into production, hence why the ending to the show was awful and left a lot of stuff unresolved like Zuko's mom and all the side characters; they had to kind of rewrite things to beating Ozai so suddenly (and why Azula suddenly goes crazy with no build up) .



I think you're in the wrong here.  Whatever the plans were for TV movies, they did not affect the story arc of the series.  Mike and Bryan were always very keen on the show having a concise story that ended after 3 seasons.  This is mentioned over and over again in interviews, the DVD commentaries, a documentary of the series available on Youtube, and in the "Art of the Animated Series" book.  Never once is it hinted that story material had to be crammed into Sozin's Comet because of cancelled TV movies (btw, Sozin's Comet essentially _was_ a TV movie).

That poster is copyrighted 2008.  Sozin's Comet was well into production by 2008, and delayed in being aired.  (a director for the series, Giancarlo Volpe, expressed his frustration on deviantArt that episodes for the second half of season 3 were delayed despite being finished) If TV movies were in fact planned, all that poster proves is that Sozin's Comet was made with the mindset that those movies would still be made.

As for unresolved or rushed plotlines:  beating Ozai was...kind of the whole point of the show.  The confrontation during Sozin's Comet was set up since way back in season 1 with "The Winter Solstice" two-parter.  I don't really understand how that could be rushed.  Azula's madness had a reason established in "The Boiling Rock" and was hinted at by her behavior in "The Southern Raiders".  Most movies have radical character development in the span of time Azula was given, and that does not automatically make them considered rushed.

Zuko's mom is an unfortunate case.  The DVD commentary to Sozin's Comet reveals that it was a "executive decision" by Mike DiMartino to remove the reunion from the finale.  He wanted to do that particular story justice separately at a later date rather than tack it on at the end -- and TV movies are _not_ mentioned in conjunction with this.  He may not have really known how he would handle the story, just that he wanted it separate.  Hopefully he'll finally have a chance to do that with Legend of Korra.

BTW, the creators seemed very enthusiastic about the live-action movie at the start, judging by an "interview" of M. Night Shyamalan by them on the Season 2 bonus disc.  That probably all changed once Shyamalamadingdong actually started making the movie...


----------



## Burke (Mar 21, 2011)

Jove said:


> I'd love to hear a source on these rewrites, because the only thing I've heard about executive balderdash regarding Book 3 was the hesitation to renew, which was the ultimate reason for the gap.
> 
> Executive meddling has about the same merit as saying a show is "rushed;" it's an easy, facile phrase that's a safe way to avoid any sort of legitimate insight. Let me point out again that executive meddling often leads to more shrewd and creative writing.
> 
> ...



I feel the same way about the word "fodder"
Overused, and over time has really lost its true meaning, and is now just a cheap and simple descriptor for lazy people.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 21, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I noticed that the currency in the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ has no name (it was simply referred to as "copper pieces" or "gold pieces" in _The Waterbending Scroll_ and never given a name at all in any other episode). I understand that this may have been done for the convenience of the audience, but with all the detail that the creators of the franchise put into the rest of the world, its people, its culture, and its supernatural elements, I expected them to have a name for the currency, as well. What does everyone else say about that?


There's really no need to dedicate or derive a term for the money, since it hardly ever comes up.

The bigger mystery is how they get money to live on in the first place 

They almost always have sufficient funds to splurge from time to time.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Mar 21, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> There's really no need to dedicate or derive a term for the money, since it hardly ever comes up.
> 
> The bigger mystery is how they get money to live on in the first place
> 
> They almost always have sufficient funds to splurge from time to time.


Except when they have to trade with nuts and nuts that may actually be rocks.


----------



## DracoStorm (Mar 21, 2011)

Jove said:


> I'd love to hear a source on these rewrites, because the only thing I've heard about executive balderdash regarding Book 3 was the hesitation to renew, which was the ultimate reason for the gap.



At comic-con one year they mentioned they originally had plans to conclude the Zuko's mom storyline but it was cut in the end to 'do it right'.  Then Nickelodeon pulled the plug on the planned movies they had in the works.  



> Any idea that Mike and Bryan were against the movie from the start, or have ever even remotely hinted at this, is false.


 Of course, they'd be fools to bad talk it and burn their bridges with Nickelodeon.  However, considering the way they treat it in interviews and quickly try to change the subject and dismiss it and refuse to comment on it, well, silence says a lot.


----------



## Wan (Mar 21, 2011)

So...what are you arguing?  You seem to contradict yourself.  The Zuko's mom plotline was left for later movies, but Azula's madness and Ozai's downfall were rushed because the movies were cancelled?  They can't both be true.

As for the live-action movie, it's not just a matter of silence.  As I said, Mike & Bryan were very enthusiastic for the movie in their "interview" of Shyamalan on the Season 2 bonus disc.


----------



## Koi (Mar 21, 2011)

..And then the movie actually happened and in subsequent interviews they quietly and politely kind of disowned it.


----------



## DracoStorm (Mar 21, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> So...what are you arguing?  You seem to contradict yourself.  The Zuko's mom plotline was left for later movies, but Azula's madness and Ozai's downfall were rushed because the movies were cancelled?  They can't both be true.


 All I know is the later part of the season had production issues, I'm merely speculating what I think suffered because of it.  We can just chalk it up to bad writing I guess, but I'd bet the movies had something to do with it.



> As for the live-action movie, it's not just a matter of silence.  As I said, Mike & Bryan were very enthusiastic for the movie in their "interview" of Shyamalan on the Season 2 bonus disc.


 Then isn't that a good example of it not being 'creator controlled'? That was the whole point.  This is assuming they didn't fake that enthusiasm for PR


----------



## Wan (Mar 21, 2011)

I get the feeling that you're just rambling on with no real point or evidence.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 21, 2011)

I wish most series had that problem of "bad writing".
As beautiful as a show like Skyland looked, I can watch The Painted Lady for 2 hours straight and be more engaged.


----------



## Nodonn (Mar 22, 2011)

> At comic-con one year they mentioned they originally had plans to conclude the Zuko's mom storyline but it was cut in the end to 'do it right'. Then Nickelodeon pulled the plug on the planned movies they had in the works.



Stop placing quotation marks where they don't belong. They canned Ursa's storyline because they couldn't do it right within the episodes they had left, not because they ''couldn't do it right nudge nudge wink wink''.


----------



## Noah (Mar 22, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> Stop placing quotation marks where they don't belong. They canned Ursa's storyline because they couldn't do it right within the episodes they had left, not because they ''couldn't do it right nudge nudge wink wink''.



Oddly enough, by not showing the Ursa story they "did it right". By having that scene with Ozai, it's implied that Zuko will find his mother. We don't need to see that, especially when we already saw him reconcile with his uncle just two episodes earlier. Seeing the Ursa ending would be the same as a time skip epilogue that shows Aang and Katara getting married or having Tenzin. It'd have the same shoehorn feeling that the Harry Potter ending had.

It's better off not being seen.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 22, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> All I know is the later part of the season had production issues, I'm merely speculating what I think suffered because of it.  We can just chalk it up to bad writing I guess, but I'd bet the movies had something to do with it.



So, basically, all of Book 3 was terribly written?


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 22, 2011)

Yes, Jove.Yes.
A better show deserved that Peabody award.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 22, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> There's really no need to dedicate or derive a term for the money, since it hardly ever comes up.
> 
> The bigger mystery is how they get money to live on in the first place
> 
> They almost always have sufficient funds to splurge from time to time.



Your first point does make sense, so I shall agree with it,. but who is the "they" whom you are referencing in your second and third points? If you are referring to the main protagonists, I shall presume that they either had money in their possession from the beginning of the series, and brought it with them in their travels, they stole it from other people, or they performed jobs and tasks in the various towns to which they traveled as they went about their adventure.



Noah said:


> Oddly enough, by not showing the Ursa story they "did it right". By having that scene with Ozai, it's implied that Zuko will find his mother. We don't need to see that, especially when we already saw him reconcile with his uncle just two episodes earlier. Seeing the Ursa ending would be the same as a time skip epilogue that shows Aang and Katara getting married or having Tenzin. It'd have the same shoehorn feeling that the Harry Potter ending had.
> 
> It's better off not being seen.



I would have had no problem with such an ending, and even enjoyed it, as it would have provided a feeling of conclusion and "full circle" to the story; plus, most of the protagonists were very young, and seeing them as adults would have been nice, as I much prefer to have adults (or at least adolescents) as the main characters in stories that I follow, rather than children.


----------



## Glued (Mar 22, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Yes, Jove.Yes.
> A better show deserved that Peabody award.



Blues Clues won that award as well.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Mar 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Blues Clues won that award as well.


 Ever since Camp Lazlo and other similar shows won multiple Emmys and other kinds of awards, I've always treated awards as a joke.

Blue Clues winning some makes me laugh though


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Blues Clues won that award as well.




What are you implying about Blue's Clues? :repstorm


----------



## Jena (Mar 22, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I would have had no problem with such an ending, and even enjoyed it, as it would have provided a feeling of conclusion and "full circle" to the story; plus, most of the protagonists were very young, and seeing them as adults would have been nice, as I much prefer to have adults (or at least adolescents) as the main characters in stories that I follow, rather than children.



I completely disagree. I hate it when things do that. Rarely does it ever work, and it usually just feels like the creators thought that all the fans would assume that the characters died unless they specifically show them as adults. 

Case in point: Harry Potter. No, it's ok. I think I'm finally over it.

I like it when a series ends on a happy note. I can use my imagination and figure out what happened when they grew up. When a normally slow-paced series suddenly skips forward ten years just to show everyone as an adult, it makes me annoyed.


----------



## Glued (Mar 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Ever since Camp Lazlo and other similar shows won multiple Emmys and other kinds of awards, I've always treated awards as a joke.
> 
> Blue Clues winning some makes me laugh though



Camp Lazlo won Emmys, how is that possible?


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Blues Clues won that award as well.



So did a documentary on the March 29, 2002, Jerusalem suicide bombing. The Peabody Awards are pretty broad.
Blue's Clues is apparently an excellent show for it's intended audience.
That doesn't diminish receiving the award in any way. There aren't any categories.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 22, 2011)

That biggest turd episode of South Park got an Emmy over Avatar <_<


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 22, 2011)

Wasn't it the WoW episode? And no matter, City of Walls and secrets was clearly superior to all other nominees... but they had to make up to South Park for all the years they simply gave the Simpsons the award for merely existing.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 22, 2011)

Yeah although Avatar can still claim that it's an Emmy award winning series, it would have been nice if it had won the title of outstanding animated program.
It seems that though that since 2005, it's been a contest between South Park and The Simpsons.

Also I'd like to say one thing about _Korra_.
I just hope that it's an entertaining show. To go nuts over whether it'll live up to the original is a bit silly. If it's as good as say _Batman Beyond_ was, I'll be content.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 22, 2011)

What's all this talk about a rewrite of Book 3? 

Blues Clues was one of my little brother's favorite shows when he was a kid xD
It wasn't bad, or at least I didn't think it was bad. xD


----------



## Jena (Mar 22, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> What's all this talk about a rewrite of Book 3?
> 
> Blues Clues was one of my little brother's favorite shows when he was a kid xD
> It wasn't bad, or at least I didn't think it was bad. xD



What. 

And I agre, Blue's Clues isn't that bad. Compared to the other garbage out there for children, it's practically well-written! 
Plus when you watch it as a kid you get to pretend you're like Sherlock Holmes. But instead of solving a murder and inhaling drugs, you're trying to find an androgynous dog while stuffing crayons in your mouth.


----------



## Koi (Mar 22, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]uGQj7WFbkG8[/YOUTUBE]
I would watch the shit out of this movie.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 23, 2011)

Jena said:


> What.
> 
> And I agre, Blue's Clues isn't that bad. Compared to the other garbage out there for children, it's practically well-written!
> Plus when you watch it as a kid you get to pretend you're like Sherlock Holmes. But instead of solving a murder and inhaling drugs, you're trying to find an androgynous dog while stuffing crayons in your mouth.



Something about rewitting or a rewrite to Book 3? I just skimmed the pages....so I'm just asking about it xD

I thought it was a darling show. :33 I loved the Salt, Pepper and Paprika shakers pek


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 23, 2011)

We squashed that. There were no rewrites.


----------



## DracoStorm (Mar 23, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> We squashed that. There were no rewrites.


 Aside from all the ones there were you mean.  People even mentioned the Ursa thing being dropped and all that jazz.

Camp Lazlo won an Emmy, though? That's kinda sad.  More proof animation isn't taken seriously in America... then again, Simpsons and South Park have been winning it for years so that's no surprise.  It's like the animation category is on autopilot and it's just an afterthought.


----------



## Jena (Mar 23, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> Aside from all the ones there were you mean.  People even mentioned the Ursa thing being dropped and all that jazz.
> 
> Camp Lazlo won an Emmy, though? That's kinda sad.  More proof animation isn't taken seriously in America... then again, Simpsons and South Park have been winning it for years so that's no surprise.  It's like the animation category is on autopilot and it's just an afterthought.



Simpsons and South Park shouldn't count as animation IMO. The main point of those shows _isn't_ that they're animated: the main point is comedy and social satire. Simpsons is drawn in a really simple style and South Park is cut out of paper (or, at least, it was. Now I think they use computers, but I digress). Don't get me wrong, I like both of them, but I think it's stupid that they're in the same category as something like Avatar when the animation is just an afterthought. They should just be in the normal comedy category if they aren't already.

And is Camp Lazlo that retarded show about the moose or whatever that teaches anthropomorphic boy scouts?


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 23, 2011)

I believe that Simpsons staff figure they have better chances of being nominated at all in the Animated category than with regular sitcoms. With 10 wins, why rock the boat at all?
Also looking at the nominees for this year I don't think that _Alien Earths_ should have been nominated simply because of the live action interviews with the astronomers.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 23, 2011)

Alright, let's just squash something else here: Blue's Clues was a legitimately great show. It raises a number of important questions, like how Steve made it through his twenties without knowing what a lamp looked like, and so on. 

I was a big fan of Mailbox and Paprika.


Why wasn't Avatar nominated for anything in Book 3? They probably could have nominated Day of Black Sun for the 2008 awards and one of the finale episodes for 2009...


I just saw that Margaritaville won an emmy for South Park... I'm more disappointed that Matt and Trey thought that was a worthy episode to nominate than anything.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 23, 2011)

Nick should have submitted the series finale to be nominated for the Outstanding Animated Program (for Programming One Hour or More) category in 2009.
There were only 2 nominees!


----------



## Wan (Mar 23, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> Aside from all the ones there were you mean.  People even mentioned the Ursa thing being dropped and all that jazz.



Stop exaggerating.  The only known case of changes to the writing was Ursa being pushed out of the finale, and that wasn't necessarily a "rewrite", just Mike DiMartino vetoing her from being in before she was written in at all.

Oh, and Jove, Season 3 did get nominated for, and won, some Annie awards.


----------



## Noah (Mar 23, 2011)

Wait.

WAIT!

I just realized. A TV show had rewrites?! How dare any sort of visual medium have rewrites! God damn those executives and their pesky meddling. Everyone knows the first version is always the best. ALWAYS.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 23, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Stop exaggerating.  The only known case of changes to the writing was Ursa being pushed out of the finale, and that wasn't necessarily a "rewrite", just Mike DiMartino vetoing her from being in before she was written in at all.
> 
> Oh, and Jove, Season 3 did get nominated for, and won, some Annie awards.



That's true. I was pretty upset The Track Team got snubbed. Actually, the Annie Awards generally maltreated Avatar all-around.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Mar 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Camp Lazlo won Emmys, how is that possible


 Awards are a joke.  I think actually having them is a detriment to a series at this point.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 23, 2011)

It was indeed unfortunate that _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ did not win any academy awards for its story or visuals; I definitely would choose it over _The Simpsons_ or _South Park,_ but apparently, more people are fond of those series than of _Avatar,_ so I shall accept that fact.

Hopefully, however, _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ will be nominated for, and win, at least one academy award when the next event is held; if there is a way for ordinary people, such as myself, to vote, I shall definitely take advantage of such a method and vote for it (after having watched the series, of course).


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 23, 2011)

Whoa, DDJ. No one is talking about winning Oscars here.
The Emmys are awarded to programs that have demonstrated "Excellence in Television".


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 23, 2011)

Fuck it, AtLA wins the ReikaiDemon award for Being Fucking Awesome in Every Way, mainstream awards are irrelevant


----------



## Burke (Mar 23, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Fuck it, AtLA wins the ReikaiDemon award for Being Fucking Awesome in Every Way, mainstream awards are irrelevant



insert hipstercat photo


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 23, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Whoa, DDJ. No one is talking about winning Oscars here.
> The Emmys are awarded to programs that have demonstrated "Excellence in Television".



I did not specify what type of award I wanted _A:tLA_ to win; I simply said that it would be nice to see it win an award of some type.


----------



## Wan (Mar 23, 2011)

"Academy" awards usually mean Oscars.


----------



## Glued (Mar 24, 2011)

to heck all this the only award Avatar needs is a Combustion Man award


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 24, 2011)

Well, it doesn't really matter if other shows got rewards. This doesn't mean Avatar isn't as good (or better) than the others.

Though Avatar is a 0 compared to Blues Clues


----------



## Jena (Mar 24, 2011)




----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Well, it doesn't really matter if other shows got rewards. This doesn't mean Avatar isn't as good (or better) than the others.
> 
> Though Avatar is a 0 compared to Blues Clues



Why even compare Avatar to Blues Clue's in the first place?
Apples and oranges, my dear.


----------



## Wan (Mar 24, 2011)

That question doesn't make sense.  If I was asked, I would just answer "Apples".

Better to compare apples to bicycles.


----------



## Burke (Mar 24, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> That question doesn't make sense.  If I was asked, I would just answer "Apples".
> 
> Better to compare apples to bicycles.



I see because the question of apples or oranges has a sensical answer whereas the question of apples or bicycles would make people wonder why there is even a question of preference of one over the other.

Oh yeah totally, fuck apples, its bike riding time.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 24, 2011)

I dunno, Steve going through the picture on the wall is kind of like going to the Spirit World.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 24, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Why even compare Avatar to Blues Clue's in the first place?
> Apples and oranges, my dear.



You're right. Why compare?

Its easy to see Blues Clues as the winner. pek



Jena said:


>



Oh, I love the Mai one! :33

*saves!*


----------



## Glued (Mar 24, 2011)

People actually like Blues Clues?

I am stunned, shocked and Stupefied.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 24, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> People actually like Blues Clues?
> 
> I am stunned, shocked and Stupefied.


Blues Clues was awesome....


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Mar 24, 2011)

Most of you are probably to young or not canadian or lived by canada but, before blues clues there was Mr. Dressup.  And he was awesome.


----------



## Bender (Mar 25, 2011)




----------



## Jena (Mar 25, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> Most of you are probably to young or not canadian or lived by canada but, before blues clues there was Mr. Dressup.  And he was awesome.



Bananas in Pajamas OWNS Mr. Dressup.


----------



## Bender (Mar 25, 2011)

^

JENA!



I LOVE THAT SHOW! 

The best thing in my childhood pek pek


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 25, 2011)

I liked how Roku's backstory was revealed and how it was connected to Sozin's story and legacy, and by extension, Sozin's descendants, but I would like to have seen more backstory for Kyoshi, Kuruk, or Yangchen, the Avatars before Roku. Did anyone else here wish to have more information about them, or are their backstories not important, because how long before the present story they lived?


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 25, 2011)

Well, according to Wikipedia for Avatar awards:

*Spoiler*: __ 



Awards Outcome 

2005 Pulcinella Awards:[53] 
Best Action/Adventure TV Series Won 
Best TV Series Won 
33rd Annie Awards:[54] 
Best Animated Television Production Nominated 
Storyboarding in an Animated Television Production (The Deserter) Won 
Writing for an Animated Television Production (The Fortuneteller) Nominated 
34th Annie Awards:[55] 
Character Animation in a Television Production (The Blind Bandit) Won 
Directing in an Animated Television Production (The Drill) Won 
36th Annie Awards:[56] 
Best Animated Television Production for Children Won 
Directing in an Animated Television Production (Joaquim Dos Santos for Into the Inferno) Won 
2007 Genesis Awards: 
Outstanding Children's Programming (Appa's Lost Days) Won 
Primetime Emmy Awards: 
Outstanding Animated Program (City of Walls and Secrets) Nominated 
Individual Achievement Award (Sang-Jin Kim for Lake Laogai) Won 
Nickelodeon Kid's Choice Awards 2008: 
Favorite Cartoon[57] Won 
Annecy 2008: 
TV series (Joaquim Dos Santos for The Day of Black Sun Part 2: The Eclipse)[58] Nominated 
56th Golden Reel Awards: 
Best Sound Editing in a Television Animation (Avatar Aang)[59] Nominated 
2008 Peabody Awards: 
"Unusually complex characters and healthy respect for the consequences of warfare"[60] Won




And Blue's Clues can easily be a fun show for kids. I used to always watch it with my sister years ago.


----------



## Darth (Mar 25, 2011)

any updates on the new release? I haven't really been following. Think it's possible for whoever did the OP to post updates?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 25, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Well, according to Wikipedia for Avatar awards:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



That is an impressive collection of awards, so I do not believe that there is any reason to be upset that _Avatar_ did not win one particular award.


----------



## Burke (Mar 25, 2011)

Darth said:


> any updates on the new release? I haven't really been following. Think it's possible for whoever did the OP to post updates?



Plentty including a cast of most characters and a face shot of korra, unless youve already heard of this.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 25, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Well, according to Wikipedia for Avatar awards:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Oh wow, that is a lot of awards. Well, it definitely deserved them, that's for sure.



> Character Animation in a Television Production (The Blind Bandit) Won




pek

_(I wonder if Blues Clues still plays on TV. I forget so much about it...)_


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 25, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> _(I wonder if Blues Clues still plays on TV. I forget so much about it...)_



Blue's Clues:
*Original run* September 8, 1996 (1996-09-08) ? August 6, 2006 (2006-08-06) 
*Status* Ended 

Wikipedia may be shit for a research paper, but it's great for checking quick facts.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 25, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Blue's Clues:
> *Original run* September 8, 1996 (1996-09-08) – August 6, 2006 (2006-08-06)
> *Status* Ended
> 
> Wikipedia may be shit for a research paper, but it's great for checking quick facts.



I didn't mean if it was still running as in "new" episodes, but reruns and if so, on which channel?


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 25, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I didn't mean if it was still running as in "new" episodes, but reruns and if so, on which channel?



Ah, I see. In that case, no idea.


----------



## Jena (Mar 25, 2011)

I _think_ they still play it on Nick during their morning program when they play the other little kids' shows.


----------



## Burke (Mar 25, 2011)

On the topic of cartoons, bens set reminded me.

What the hell is CN thinking?
Instead of bringing Teen Titans back, they start another DC kid hero show where AQUALAD IS THE LEADER.
:|
if there was ever a better time to kill ones self


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm not really happy about only getting an image of Korra so far into the year. They should have included another character's design as well 



N??ps said:


> On the topic of cartoons, bens set reminded me.
> What the hell is CN thinking?
> *Instead of bringing Teen Titans back, they start another DC kid hero show where AQUALAD IS THE LEADER*. :| if there was ever a better time to kill ones self



Teen Titans was awesome the way it is, they should bring it back for the large fan base they had/have. :33 Aqualad...


----------



## Burke (Mar 26, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I'm not really happy about only getting an image of Korra so far into the year. They should have included another character's design as well
> 
> 
> 
> Teen Titans was awesome the way it is, they should bring it back for the large fan base they had/have. :33 Aqualad...



Dont get me wrong, i actually liked the aqualad from the teen titans, but in young justice, its some other guy :|


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 26, 2011)

Funny stuff.

*BK Rapper Cashmere Preps Mixtape Series 'Avatar: The Last Airbender'*



> Brooklyn rap messenger Cashmere is prepping for the release of his forthcoming concept mixtape series *Avatar: The Last Airbender*, which will be released as a 4-part series including The Book Of Water, The Book Of Earth, The Book Of Fire, and The Book Of Air, via independent record label The Cash Administration.



Anyone here a Cigar smoking man/woman?
Try an Airbender. 
*La Flor Dominicana Air Bender*

Explanation for the name?


> Air Bender cigars, another offering of Litto Gomez, feature such a powerful profile that he named them after the classic Kung Fu movies in which powerful warriors “bend the air.”



Right, all those classic Kung Fu movies where people who manipulate elements are called benders. I think I saw Leung Kar Yan star in one.


----------



## Glued (Mar 26, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Dont get me wrong, i actually liked the aqualad from the teen titans, but in young justice, its some other guy :|



That would be Garth


----------



## Shade (Mar 28, 2011)

We do not let the Korra thread take our place.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 28, 2011)

Nøøps said:


> On the topic of cartoons, bens set reminded me.
> 
> What the hell is CN thinking?
> Instead of bringing Teen Titans back, they start another DC kid hero show where AQUALAD IS THE LEADER.
> ...



Young Justice is actually an ok show. It still has a number of flaws, but it's still new and keeps improving as more episodes are released. A lot of people are seeing it as possibly being one of the better comic book-based cartoons in a while.


Nøøps said:


> Dont get me wrong, i actually liked the aqualad from the teen titans, but in young justice, its some other guy :|



)


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 28, 2011)

@Shade:
Why not? Same discussion, right...? 



Narcissus said:


> Young Justice is actually an ok show. It still has a number of flaws, but it's still new and keeps improving as more episodes are released. A lot of people are seeing it as possibly being one of the better comic book-based cartoons in a while.



Really? Its actually good? :amazed Maybe I should watch it.  

I actually consider The Spectacular Spider-Man to be my favorite comic-book based cartoon *I even think its the best xD*


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 28, 2011)

Spectacular Spider-Man is the one I've seen receive the most praise in recent time, and I still haven't watched it yet. I need to get to that.

But Young Justice is at least decent, though the characters are a bit annoying in the beginning. But they are getting better, especially after the last two episodes, and there is a lot of good material to keep things interesting. It's no Justice League or Teen Titans, but certainly worth a look.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Mar 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Teen Titans was awesome the way it is, they should bring it back for the large fan base they had/have. :33 Aqualad...


 Seriously? Young Justice is far, far, better than Teen Titans is.  Teen Titans just threw random chibis all over and claimed it was 'anime', not actually taking the writing and plotline aspects from anime which is why people loved anime in the first place.  The characters we're all annoying (not that YJ's aren't, but at least Aqualad is bearable, which is more than you can say about Teen Titan's five main kids) Young Justice at least has far better writing and a story..  Granted, it's nowhere near as good as Iron Man: Armored Adventures, but still.  I'm glad they went a more serious route with YJ, which is how TT should have been in the first place.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 28, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Seriously? Young Justice is far, far, better than Teen Titans is.  Teen Titans just threw random chibis all over and claimed it was 'anime', not actually taking the writing and plotline aspects from anime which is why people loved anime in the first place.  The characters we're all annoying (not that YJ's aren't, but at least Aqualad is bearable, which is more than you can say about Teen Titan's five main kids) Young Justice at least has far better writing and a story..  Granted, it's nowhere near as good as Iron Man: Armored Adventures, but still.  I'm glad they went a more serious route with YJ, which is how TT should have been in the first place.



Teen Titans was originally made for a younger age group, which is why it came off as childish at first. But as it went on, it started to become more mature.

_"[The show] started out skewed a lot younger... but along the way, I think the producers discovered it was reaching a wider audience. ... [the show] got into some darker story lines, and they introduced a lot more characters, so they expanded on it, and they let the show evolve with the audience."_
—J. Torres, Titans Companion 2 by Glen Cadigan​
And Teen Titans did well with most of their characters, in particular Slade and Raven.

As of now, Young Justice is not the better show. It might surpass Teen Titans down the line, but right now it is still too new and hasn't had nearly enough development yet.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Mar 28, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Teen Titans was originally made for a younger age group, which is why it came off as childish at first. But as it went on, it started to become more mature.


 Avatar was made for a younger age group and had none of these problems.



> As of now, Young Justice is not the better show. It might surpass Teen Titans down the line, but right now it is still too new and hasn't had nearly enough development yet.


 Young Justice already shows far more development and focus on an actual story and actual character development than Teen Titans ever did (the stuff with Speedy/Red Arrow is already better handled than Terra ever was).  At best, you had a few episode in TT that involved the season's big bad (Slade, Blood, Terra, etc) mixed in with about 3/4ths of the season being wacky, lame filler episodes with silly comedic villains like Control Freak, Ding Dong Daddy, Mad Mod, Hive Five, and various others.  The show was way too episodic and lacked a real story.  Crispin Freeman did a funny rant on it back when the show aired and I agree with everything he said about it.


----------



## Burke (Mar 28, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Young Justice is actually an ok show. It still has a number of flaws, but it's still new and keeps improving as more episodes are released. A lot of people are seeing it as possibly being one of the better comic book-based cartoons in a while.
> 
> 
> )



I like the brightest day panel, so i would have prefered the young justice version with that hair and no giant ass gills.
Also, at any rate, an aqualad is an aqualad is an aqualad, they never have any place as a leader imho.

"Sorry Superboy and (mothafuckin) Robin, take a back seat cause here comes AQUALAD"

anyone 10 years ago would die of laughter



Akimichi Juro said:


> Seriously?



Yes, kids who joined in the last month, and therefore whose opinion i do not value, seriously.

that was for Mad Mod


----------



## Glued (Mar 28, 2011)

N??ps said:


> I like the brightest day panel, so i would have prefered the young justice version with that hair and no giant ass gills.
> Also, at any rate, an aqualad is an aqualad is an aqualad, they never have any place as a leader imho.
> 
> "Sorry Superboy and (mothafuckin) Robin, take a back seat cause here comes AQUALAD"
> ...



Aquaman himself once disbanded Justice League.
Black Canary once lead the League
Martian Manhunter was once leader of the Justice league international.


----------



## Noah (Mar 28, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Aquaman himself once disbanded Justice League.
> Black Canary once lead the League
> Martian Manhunter was once leader of the Justice league international.



1. Arthur probably pulled some Namor shit and was all "Stay out my ocean then!"
2. Wasn't that the Booster Gold/Blue Beeter/Maxwell Whatshisname  JLA?
3. Yeah, but no one cares about JLI. And MM is basically Superman with telepathy, so it'd be okay.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 28, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Avatar was made for a younger age group and had none of these problems.



Avatar is also a much better than Young justice, so that really doesn't help your case.


> Young Justice already shows far more development and focus on an actual story and actual character development than Teen Titans ever did (the stuff with Speedy/Red Arrow is already better handled than Terra ever was).  At best, you had a few episode in TT that involved the season's big bad (Slade, Blood, Terra, etc) mixed in with about 3/4ths of the season being wacky, lame filler episodes with silly comedic villains like Control Freak, Ding Dong Daddy, Mad Mod, Hive Five, and various others.  The show was way too episodic and lacked a real story.  Crispin Freeman did a funny rant on it back when the show aired and I agree with everything he said about it.



The Speedy/Red Arrow angle has not been fully fleshed out yet, so no on that. So far, the villains of Teen Titans have been better (Slade, Terra, Trigon, Brother Blood). And a lot of the villain of the week episodes you're talking about were just for fun, and it worked well. And not to mention that a show can be episodic and still be great. Batman: TAS was episodic and better than Teen Titans, Avatar, and Young Justice. It's more in how well the series is handled. Young Justice still has too many flaws that it is working out.




N??ps said:


> Also, at any rate, an aqualad is an aqualad is an aqualad, they never have any place as a leader imho.
> 
> "Sorry Superboy and (mothafuckin) Robin, take a back seat cause here comes AQUALAD"
> 
> anyone 10 years ago would die of laughter



_That's_ your reason for disliking the show? 

If you watched it, you'd know why he is the leader of the team. The other members just are not suited for it yet. And there are a good number of people who are actually happy to see Robin taking a back seat for once.

Besides, there is a good chance Aqualad might die by the end of the first season.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 28, 2011)

I enjoyed _Teen Titans_ very thoroughly, despite being far older than its target demographic. While I did prefer the darker and more serious episodes (any that focused on Raven, for example), I still watched every episode in its entirety and enjoyed them. Similarly, in _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ my favorite character was Zuko, and I therefore enjoyed any episodes that focused strongly on him, but I still watched every episode completely. Therefore, I believe that each series did very well to have both serious and humorous moments throughout its duration, provided that they remained separate and did not hinder each other, which they did very well in most cases.

On the subject of comparing _Teen Titans_ to _Young Justice,_ I have not seen _Young Justice,_ but I presume that it has a different target demographic than did _Teen Titans,_ so comparisons between the two series may not be completely fair; I would much prefer to judge each series by its own merits rather than by comparing it to the other.

To change subject, which I hope does not bother anyone, at the end of the series, there were three canonical couples: Aang/Katara, Zuko/Mai, and Sokka/Suki. Aang and Katara likely settled at the Southern Water Tribe, being that Aang had no home to return to, and Zuko and Mai remained in the Fire Nation, as that was their homeland and Zuko was the Fire Lord, but where did Sokka and Suki settle at the end? Both of their homes were still intact, and neither of them had a particularly strong reason to either remain in their homelands or move to the other's homeland, so I am wondering how they chose to resolve that conflict? What does everyone else imagine?


----------



## Glued (Mar 28, 2011)

Noah said:


> 1. Arthur probably pulled some Namor shit and was all "Stay out my ocean then!"



Nope, when the World needed the Justice League, Superman, Wondy, Bats, Green Lantern and Flash were all absent. The JLA watch tower was wrecked.

Aquaman was so appalled by the mishandling that he publicly disbanded the Justice League in order to remake it. Martian Manhunter approved.

He then snubbed Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Black Canary and Green Arrow, since they didn't have time to be full time leaguers.

This all took place after the death of Aquaman's son, and his wife going nuts and being institutionalized. He had some free time to train and recreate the league.



> 2. Wasn't that the Booster Gold/Blue Beeter/Maxwell Whatshisname  JLA?



No, that that was the JLI under Martian Manhunter. Black Canary was the leader of the of the Justice League of America. Commanding Zatanna, Red Tornado, Green Lantern, Vixen and etc...



> 3. Yeah, but no one cares about JLI. And MM is basically Superman with telepathy, so it'd be okay.



Actually, people do. Booster Gold, Guy Gardner and Blue Beetle were all great. Hell we got to see Batman knock out Guy Gardner.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Mar 28, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> The Speedy/Red Arrow angle has not been fully fleshed out yet, so no on that. So far, the villains of Teen Titans have been better (Slade, Terra, Trigon, Brother Blood). And a lot of the villain of the week episodes you're talking about were just for fun, and it worked well. And not to mention that a show can be episodic and still be great. Batman: TAS was episodic and better than Teen Titans, Avatar, and Young Justice. It's more in how well the series is handled. Young Justice still has too many flaws that it is working out.


 Linking to someone's top 100 list doesn't really help your claim.  Lists are subjective by nature, after all, and I could post mine and we'd be evenly matched.  Just like saying Batman is better.  Fine if you think that, but man, Avatar? Really? You sure you're not using nostalgia goggles? Avatar actually fleshed out it's characters, had a set story, and actually had an ending. Batman was always the Joker or whatever villain popping up and being captured by the end of the episode, thrown into prison, then repeating it next week.  Teen Titans was similar, though at least had a set villain very season, even if only three or four episodes involved it and the rest was filler; a much better track record than Batman at least.  Young Justice seems to do a better job than that.  Superhero shows have come a long way since the days of the 90s and seem to get better each time.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 28, 2011)

> To change subject, which I hope does not bother anyone, at the end of the series, there were three canonical couples: Aang/Katara, Zuko/Mai, and Sokka/Suki. Aang and Katara likely settled at the Southern Water Tribe, being that Aang had no home to return to, and Zuko and Mai remained in the Fire Nation, as that was their homeland and Zuko was the Fire Lord, but where did Sokka and Suki settle at the end? Both of their homes were still intact, and neither of them had a particularly strong reason to either remain in their homelands or move to the other's homeland, so I am wondering how they chose to resolve that conflict? What does everyone else imagine?



I have wondered about this as well, mostly because out of the older characters Suki was among my favorites.

I think that Sokka would have went to live with Suki *for* Suki. I have a hard time believing (had this discussion with a few others) Sokka would force her out in the middle of the ocea for his Tribe...

But then again, *I* can never really know. xD


Akimichi Juro said:


> Seriously? Young Justice is far, far, better than Teen Titans is.  Teen Titans just threw random chibis all over and claimed it was 'anime', not actually taking the writing and plotline aspects from anime which is why people loved anime in the first place.  The characters we're all annoying (not that YJ's aren't, but at least Aqualad is bearable, which is more than you can say about Teen Titan's five main kids) Young Justice at least has far better writing and a story..  Granted, it's nowhere near as good as Iron Man: Armored Adventures, but still.  I'm glad they went a more serious route with YJ, which is how TT should have been in the first place.


Luckily for the sake of this argument, I had watched a few episodes of Young Justice last night. It is good, from what I've seen, but its not as good as Teen Titans thus far. But I will have to watch more episodes first. 

(Also...yay! Jesse McCartney! :3)


*Spoiler*: __ 




Seriously. Many, many, many fans of the show or even watched it honestly, would agree with me. Well, at least not labeled it as you have. 

The only reason it got canceled, was because of Cartoon Network and the developers, not because it was a terrible show or that no one was watching it.

What was unbearable about Teen Titan's characters? Seriously, you have been the only one I have ever met since the start of the show to the end and then to this point, to say the characters were annoying...at least "all" of them. I have heard "Sometimes Robin can be annoying..." or "Man, some episodes of Beast Boy got annoying!" but never of them all.

I have a feeling you watched a few episodes of TT and then quickly labeled it as bad. 

All animes have chibis in them. This doesn't automatically make the show bad or worse than another. That was just a stupid reason to use. And once the show got further into it and its ratings grew, it started to lessen the chibis, as you can see by the development the Raven episodes received.

The villains in TT were very good, especially Slader and Trigon. I didn't see Terra as a villain because well...if you watched the show you would know xD


----------



## Burke (Mar 29, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> If you watched it, you'd know why he is the leader of the team. The other members just are not suited for it yet. And there are a good number of people who are actually happy to see Robin taking a back seat for once.
> 
> Besides, there is a good chance Aqualad might die by the end of the first season.



i choose to remain ignorant


----------



## VerdantVenus (Mar 29, 2011)

They just dropped Sym-Biotic Titan.

It's kinda funny that Aqualad looks like a young Drebin, and shares the same VA


----------



## Noah (Mar 29, 2011)

^Dammit, really? I saw a couple episodes and it had promise. Like, Spectacular Spider-Man level promise. 




Terra Branford said:


> (Also...yay! Jesse McCartney! :3)



I swear, every time you post I find another reason to want to uppercut you through a roof.


----------



## Burke (Mar 29, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> They just dropped Sym-Biotic Titan.



booty quake it

classic new cartoon network :l
That makes like the 40th canceled new show since "the days of the end of toonami"



Noah said:


> I swear, every time you post I find another reason to want to uppercut you through a roof.



In a friendly way


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 29, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Spectacular Spider-Man is the one I've seen receive the most praise in recent time, and I still haven't watched it yet. I need to get to that.
> 
> But Young Justice is at least decent, though the characters are a bit annoying in the beginning. But they are getting better, especially after the last two episodes, and there is a lot of good material to keep things interesting. It's no Justice League or Teen Titans, but certainly worth a look.



Its a awesome Spider-man show. At first, I only watched for the animation which I found pretty good, but then it actually turned out to be good.  I was devastated to hear about its cancellation. 

Oh, about Young Justice...I have watched to the most recent episode. I like it and its worth a watch, but its nothing like Teen Titans. >.<

So far, Robin is actually my favorite :/



Noah said:


> I swear, every time you post I find another reason to want to uppercut you through a roof.


There's a person who doesn't like Roxas, err, I mean Jesse?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 30, 2011)

Does anyone here wonder if Sokka eventually recovered his boomerang and sword after the final battle? And why did he not give them names? If his boomerang had great sentimental value to him, and his sword (the one that he forged from the meteor) was the focus of an entire episode, would it not seem appropriate, from both an in-universe and an out-of-universe perspective, for them to have their own unique names?


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Mar 30, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Seriously. Many, many, many fans of the show or even watched it honestly, would agree with me. Well, at least not labeled it as you have.


 So fans of the show would say it's good?   I sure hope so.



> The only reason it got canceled, was because of Cartoon Network and the developers, not because it was a terrible show or that no one was watching it.


 Just because something is popular doesn't make it good...



> What was unbearable about Teen Titan's characters? Seriously, you have been the only one I have ever met since the start of the show to the end and then to this point, to say the characters were annoying...at least "all" of them. I have heard "Sometimes Robin can be annoying..." or "Man, some episodes of Beast Boy got annoying!" but never of them all.


 Really? I see tons of people who complain about them, even ignoring the bitter and unpleasable comic book fanboys.  Starfire is a complete moron and the writers seem to think that being new to a new culture makes you brain-dead and stupid.  Admittedly, Miss Martian is the same way (sadly), but at least she doesn't sprout stupid things like a fetish for mustard or talk like "I am be having this waffle of hope, joyous yes?".  Beast Boy is probably the worst; he acts like he's 7.. I mean, he makes jokes based on boogers of all things. 



> All animes have chibis in them. This doesn't automatically make the show bad or worse than another. That was just a stupid reason to use. And once the show got further into it and its ratings grew, it started to lessen the chibis, as you can see by the development the Raven episodes received.


 Um, my point was that it just relied on anime-esque gimmicks and shoe-horned them in whenever it could.  They ended up using more chibis than any actual anime I've ever seen.  They toned it down later on, but that's like three seasons later.  Avatar seems like the only show that took 'anime influence' as 'actually having a plot, developing the characters, and giving the show a story'.  Teen Titans and other shows just ape the art style/expressions while doing the same episodic American style storytelling.  

I think Crispin Freeman's comments on Teen Titans explains it pretty well


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 30, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Does anyone here wonder if Sokka eventually recovered his boomerang and sword after the final battle? And why did he not give them names? If his boomerang had great sentimental value to him, and his sword (the one that he forged from the meteor) was the focus of an entire episode, would it not seem appropriate, from both an in-universe and an out-of-universe perspective, for them to have their own unique names?



He did give them names: Boomerang and Space Sword.


Sokka is utilitarian.


----------



## ElementX (Mar 30, 2011)

Sometimes the simple names are the best ones.


----------



## Burke (Mar 30, 2011)

Jove said:


> He did give them names: Boomerang and Space Sword.
> 
> 
> Sokka is utilitarian.



i would think it wouldnt be tat difficult just to search the area for his items later on. Hopefully it makes a cameo in korra


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 30, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Linking to someone's top 100 list doesn't really help your claim.  Lists are subjective by nature, after all, and I could post mine and we'd be evenly matched.  Just like saying Batman is better.  Fine if you think that, but man, Avatar? Really? You sure you're not using nostalgia goggles? Avatar actually fleshed out it's characters, had a set story, and actually had an ending. Batman was always the Joker or whatever villain popping up and being captured by the end of the episode, thrown into prison, then repeating it next week.  Teen Titans was similar, though at least had a set villain very season, even if only three or four episodes involved it and the rest was filler; a much better track record than Batman at least.  Young Justice seems to do a better job than that.  Superhero shows have come a long way since the days of the 90s and seem to get better each time.



No, I'm not looking at it through nostalgia goggles. The characters and episodic-themed plots of Batman: TAS were well-writen and interesting enoug to make that show a great cartoon. Guess what. Justic League started the same way, with the two-episode plotlines. It is also a better cartoon than Teen Titans, Avatar, and Young Justice. Superhero shows are more like a rollercoaster; they have their ups and downs. But as it stands Teen Titans, as of now, was a better cartoon than Young Justice is.


N??ps said:


> i choose to remain ignorant



As you have the right to do.


Terra Branford said:


> Its a awesome Spider-man show. At first, I only watched for the animation which I found pretty good, but then it actually turned out to be good.  I was devastated to hear about its cancellation.
> 
> Oh, about Young Justice...I have watched to the most recent episode. I like it and its worth a watch, but its nothing like Teen Titans. >.<
> 
> So far, Robin is actually my favorite :/



Well then I'll have to get around to watching it sometime soon then. And yeah, I agree about Young Justice. Glad you're liking it for what it's dones so far though.


----------



## Superstarseven (Mar 30, 2011)

Justice League was a fine, fine program but Avatar's much more interesting.
I'll reserve my opinion how Young Justice is fairing against Teen Titans.
9 Episodes compared to 65, if it's even up for debate then it must be doing pretty good.


----------



## Narcissus (Mar 30, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Justice League was a fine, fine program but Avatar's much more interesting.



I have to disagree. Of course, I don't think it's a fair comparison since Justice League draws on ideas and characters who are already interesting and well known, _and does it right_, but I found myself liing the ideas, action, characters and dialogue in Justice League more than Avatar.

Of course, that doesn't take away from Avatar being a great show though.


> I'll reserve my opinion how Young Justice is fairing against Teen Titans.
> 9 Episodes compared to 65, if it's even up for debate then it must be doing pretty good.



I think Young Justice may very well have the potential to become better than Teen Titans in the future because they are using some good ideas, but they still need a good amount of development first though. But it is a good cartoon worth the watch.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 30, 2011)

> Does anyone here wonder if Sokka eventually recovered his boomerang and sword after the final battle? And why did he not give them names? If his boomerang had great sentimental value to him, and his sword (the one that he forged from the meteor) was the focus of an entire episode, would it not seem appropriate, from both an in-universe and an out-of-universe perspective, for them to have their own unique names?


He did give them names. Boomerang and Space Sword :3

I don't think Sokka would leave his Space Sword behind or even his Boomerang. They saved him too much for him to turn his back on them 



Narcissus said:


> Well then I'll have to get around to watching it sometime soon then. And yeah, I agree about Young Justice. Glad you're liking it for what it's dones so far though.



I think you'd really like it.  The animation is very fluid and Peter's character is pretty good. The villains are great as well, except one bird villain, I find him really annoying. xD 

Its pretty good. I'm likin' Miss Martian and Superboy. I thought Superboy was going to be annoying and all goody-goody-two-shoes like Superman. I was wrong, he's actually pretty good. But Robin remains my favorite, I like his hacking skills. 



Akimichi Juro said:


> So fans of the show would say it's good?   I sure hope so.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Please read my posts. 


> Seriously. Many, many, many fans of the show *or even watched it honestly, would agree with me.* Well, at least not labeled it as you have.



People who watched it who wasn't fans, liked it and as I said, or at least not label it as you have.

And when a rare person comes along who complains over the show doesn't mean its bad. So why must we listen to you...?  


Akimichi Juro said:


> Just because something is popular doesn't make it good...


The majority of people liked it because it was good not because it was popular. It was a good show...why does it bother you so?

But I suppose since its ratings and fans aren't enough to determine a good show/book/ect, then Avatar: The Last Airbender is garbage? Or how about M.A.S.H? Or how about Justice League? Or even Young Justice (when/if it grows)?



Akimichi Juro said:


> Really? I see tons of people who complain about them, even ignoring the bitter and unpleasable comic book fanboys.  Starfire is a complete moron and the writers seem to think that being new to a new culture makes you brain-dead and stupid.  Admittedly, Miss Martian is the same way (sadly), but at least she doesn't sprout stupid things like a fetish for mustard or talk like "I am be having this waffle of hope, joyous yes?".  Beast Boy is probably the worst; he acts like he's 7.. I mean, he makes jokes based on boogers of all things.


Really? Who besides people like you who hate the show? :/

You obviously did not watch the show. Starfire isn't a moron, she's actually smart. xD She's ignorant of *Earth's cultures and behavior* because she grew up on a different planet. The same case is with Miss Martian. 

Beast Boy is the humorous role. Robin seems to be that role in Young Justice. Where is your complaining of that? 

You must remember that this is a kid's show. What was he suppose to joke about? Sex and whores? 

I suppose you would be a complete moron as well if you were taken from wherever you live and thrown into a new community with people you have no idea how to act around. Right?



Akimichi Juro said:


> Um, my point was that it just relied on anime-esque gimmicks and shoe-horned them in whenever it could.  They ended up using more chibis than any actual anime I've ever seen.  They toned it down later on, but that's like three seasons later.  Avatar seems like the only show that took 'anime influence' as 'actually having a plot, developing the characters, and giving the show a story'.  Teen Titans and other shows just ape the art style/expressions while doing the same episodic American style storytelling.


As a big fan of the show, I can honestly say you are wrong. It wasn't "three seasons later" it was after season one, to be exact. And then vastly descreased by the middle of Season 2 and then vanished in 3 and then left no trace in Season 4.  Sure they kept some anime faces and some times with the chibis, so? If you hate a show for something like that, well then...geez xD

Of course Avatar is different. It doesn't seem fair to compare Teen Titians to Avatar: The Last Airbender as it wouldn't be fair to compare AtLA to Young Justice or for example, The Spectacular Spider-Man.

Teen Titans had a plot, were you not watching it? The style of it was perfectly fine, but since you find Teen Titan's story-telling bad, what do you think of Young Justice? You obviously don't know that the show was created to be a cross-mixture (but not completely) of Teen Titans (the show) and Young Justice (the DC Comics) and that they had received the animation's adaptation off of Teen Titans (the show).

Without Teen Titans, you wouldn't have this Young Justice anime you like so much.



Akimichi Juro said:


> I think Crispin Freeman's comments on Teen Titans explains it pretty well



Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd I don't care about Crispin Freeman's comments on Teen Titans. One idiot says one thing and I'm to follow? No thank you. He's the kind of dude who acts in dumb anime like Naruto and Bleach, so his comments mean _nothing_ to me.

I watched it and gave an *honest* review. People who say the show was terrible obviously haven't seen it or are extremely butthurt over the epicness of it 

But okay. You don't like Teen Titans which is just weird, others like it. Let's just leave it at that, eh? :33


----------



## Ms. Jove (Mar 30, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> He did give them names. Boomerang and Space Sword :3



That's an amazing point. Amazing to the exact wording.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 30, 2011)

Jove said:


> That's an amazing point. Amazing to the exact wording.


Did I miss something while I was writing my last post...?


----------



## Burke (Mar 31, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Did I miss something while I was writing my last post...?



Lol ahh jove.
He just said the same exact thing on the last page is all.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 31, 2011)

I noticed that most Air Nomads were able to fly by using their power to create a draft sufficient to keep their gliders aloft, but doing so occupied their arms, which prevented the nomads from using them for combat. What if an airbender had a mechanical array attached to their body (like a pack or an extra set of clothing) that they could activate with a press of a lever or a certain body movement, causing wings to expand and provide them with sufficient lift (like the common depictions of ninjas in popular culture, whose accuracy I am uncertain of)? Such a method would (to me) look cool and also allow the airbender to use their arms while flying, likely for other airbending techniques. What does everyone else say about that idea?



Jove said:


> He did give them names: Boomerang and Space Sword.





Terra Branford said:


> He did give them names. Boomerang and Space Sword :3



I can accept "Space Sword" as a name, because it can function as a proper noun, even if it is very uncreative, but the word "boomerang" is the type of object that Sokka's boomerang is (i.e., a common noun), so how can that be its proper name?


----------



## Noah (Mar 31, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I can accept "Space Sword" as a name, because it can function as a proper noun, even if it is very uncreative, but the word "boomerang" is the type of object that Sokka's boomerang is (i.e., a common noun), so how can that be its proper name?



I don't think you noticed, but Sokka doesn't have time for cutesy nicknames. He simply calls it as he sees it. And his word is law.


----------



## The Potential (Mar 31, 2011)

Sparky Sparky Boom Man FTW!


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 31, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I can accept "Space Sword" as a name, because it can function as a proper noun, even if it is very uncreative, but the word "boomerang" is the type of object that Sokka's boomerang is (i.e., a common noun), so how can that be its proper name?



Well, that's just what he called his boomerang. Boomerang 

That's why the hawk was Hawky, the sword Space Sword, boomerang as Boomerang. 



N??ps said:


> Lol ahh jove.
> He just said the same exact thing on the last page is all.



Oh okay, now I understand. >.>


----------



## Burke (Apr 1, 2011)

Noah said:


> I don't think you noticed, but Sokka doesn't have time for cutesy nicknames. He simply calls it as he sees it. And his word is law.



hawky
wang fire
sparky sparky boom man
are among examples lol


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 1, 2011)

And, as you'll notice, all are elite level elites in the Avatar Universe.


----------



## Noah (Apr 1, 2011)

N??ps said:


> hawky
> wang fire
> sparky sparky boom man
> are among examples lol



Wang Fire was the only one where he got slightly creative. But it is also, amazingly enough, the most literal of them all. I'll trust that we all understand what that means. However, if anyone needs an explanation, they can go ask Suki


----------



## ElementX (Apr 1, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I noticed that most Air Nomads were able to fly by using their power to create a draft sufficient to keep their gliders aloft, but doing so occupied their arms, which prevented the nomads from using them for combat. What if an airbender had a mechanical array attached to their body (like a pack or an extra set of clothing) that they could activate with a press of a lever or a certain body movement, causing wings to expand and provide them with sufficient lift (like the common depictions of ninjas in popular culture, whose accuracy I am uncertain of)? Such a method would (to me) look cool and also allow the airbender to use their arms while flying, likely for other airbending techniques. What does everyone else say about that idea?




That actually sounds kinda cool. Maybe they'll have something like that in the more technology-oriented Korra.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 2, 2011)

Well, let's pose this question:

Which discipline do you think will exploit the new technology the best?


Not which one is the most propitious for it, or the most adept... and also considering the context of the Avatar World, post-Era of Ozai.


Fire Nation was already fully advanced, proto-steampunk in the first series. But has Korra moved beyond steampunk, or be a variant of it? And the Fire archipelago was relatively unaffected by the War.

Earth Kingdom has the raw materials, manpower, and strength. But their nation was devastated, forced into cultural and technological stasis. And would being a _confederated_ monarchy hold them back?

Air Nomads have an instant and endless energy resource, but obviously zero manpower and are rebuilding a culture one person at a time. And, of course, their basic philosophy would be anathema to such thing.

Water Tribe has the largest and most exploitable resource, and one that is, obviously, vital to steampunk. But they are also half a culture, and the most traditionalist entity in the Avatar World. 


But, considering that Republic City is unlike anything we've seen in the Avatar world, hw much of this applies? How much prejudice would their be to Firebenders? Who would thrive in a city where resources are presumably shared?


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 2, 2011)

Much of the infrastructure of the Earth Kingdom _was_ based on bending--transport, military, everyday uses, construction.  The rest applies for most of the bending world--using their powers not only as combat but as a natural extension of their everyday lives.  Having been accustomed to these powers (which probably are so commonplace they don't have that name) most of the cultures in the wold of Avatar are reliant on them for quite a bit.

But not everyone is a bender.  

I don't recall if it was ever discussed or even mentioned about the bender/non-bender ratio,  but a city bases upon technological advancement, one that shares the resources and technology of all the old nations would benefit everyone else, all the people who were once reliant on bending powers.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 2, 2011)

Jove said:


> Well, let's pose this question:
> 
> Which discipline do you think will exploit the new technology the best?
> 
> ...



Hopefully, benders of all four elements will exist in the Republic City, as each of their abilities can be used in different manners to help with technological advances, and such a blend of people will help to promote greater understanding and peace between the nations and cultures of the world.

On the subject of Sokka and his names for various people or objects, why is it that he object to Toph calling Aang "Twinkletoes" (or, more accurately, Aang responding to that name), but used such childish and "unmanly" (by his definition) names as "Hawky" or "Sparky-Sparky Boom Man?" It seems to me that his is contradicting himself in such situations.


----------



## The Gr8 Destroyer (Apr 2, 2011)

You know what I am pumped for?  The look of grown up aang.  You know one way or another the spirit of Aang will be chatting with Korra at some point.  Should be pretty nifty.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 2, 2011)

The Gr8 Destroyer said:


> You know what I am pumped for?  The look of grown up aang.  You know one way or another the spirit of Aang will be chatting with Korra at some point.  Should be pretty nifty.



I have seen numerous fanart images of Aang (and other characters from _Avatar)_ as adults, and some of them seem to be fairly well-imagined in depicting the characters as they would appear older. I myself imagine that he will likely appear to be simply a taller and older version of himself from the first series, perhaps with a mustache similar to Gyatso's. If Katara is still alive, I imagine that she will resemble her grandmother, Kanna, as Katara also resembled Kanna when she was younger. I also imagine that Sokka, Zuko, and Azula would also grow to bear strong resemblances to their parents, as they apparently had such resembles as children and adolescents, as well.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 3, 2011)

Hi, I'm back.

Man, I was really expecting to forget more, but thankfully, I still remembered Avatar and this thread.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Hi, I'm back.
> 
> Man, I was really expecting to forget more, but thankfully, I still remembered Avatar and this thread.



Were you absent from this forum for some reason?


----------



## Burke (Apr 3, 2011)

Oh hey, i just won a state wide 3D animation contest...
thought you might care
:33


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 3, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Were you absent from this forum for some reason?


Who're you?


----------



## Jena (Apr 3, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Oh hey, i just won a state wide 3D animation contest...
> thought you might care
> :33



Congrats!

I just ordered Avatar The Last Airbender: The Art of the Animated Series and Avatar the Last Airbender: The Lost Scrolls from Amazon. I am so cool.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 3, 2011)

That's awesome. The art book will blow you away. It's exquisite.


I'm thinking that in Republic City, I'd rank the disciplines that will thrive in the new technology as:

Water
Fire
Earth
Air

I'm putting a lot of importance on the vitality of water, here. And I think Fire is the easy answer.


----------



## Koi (Apr 3, 2011)

The artbook is SO GOOD.  I reeeeeeally hope they release one for Korra, too.  And an OST would be divine.


----------



## Burke (Apr 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Who're you?



IDK, he just showed up one day.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 3, 2011)

Nøøps said:


> IDK, he just showed up one day.



Did not all of us do that, at certain points in time?


----------



## Nodonn (Apr 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Who're you?



You're better off not knowing, just click that ignore button and live your life in blissful ignorance.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 3, 2011)

Nodonn said:


> You're better off not knowing, just click that ignore button and live your life in blissful ignorance.


Okei dokei, if you say so.

I don't seem to remember you either though.


----------



## Burke (Apr 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Okei dokei, if you say so.
> 
> I don't seem to remember you either though.



IDK, he just showed up one day.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 3, 2011)

Reikai Demon, are you joking, or do you seriously not remember users such as myself and Nodonn?


----------



## Koi (Apr 4, 2011)

I dunno if anyone else knows who the Mark Reads guy is (he reviews books and watches shows and stuff-- he's done Harry Potter, Twilight, Doctor Who, etc.) but he's starting to watch Avatar on Wednesday.  I dunno if he's doing one or two episodes at a time though, but you can read when he starts at Markwatches.net.  

I like reading his reviews but the community of posters gets really preoccupied with shipping sometimes so.. yeah.  Fair warning.


----------



## Burke (Apr 4, 2011)

Koi said:


> I dunno if anyone else knows who the Mark Reads guy is (he reviews books and watches shows and stuff-- he's done Harry Potter, Twilight, Doctor Who, etc.) but he's starting to watch Avatar on Wednesday.  I dunno if he's doing one or two episodes at a time though, but you can read when he starts at Markwatches.net.
> 
> I like reading his reviews but the community of posters gets really preoccupied with shipping sometimes so.. yeah.  Fair warning.



Wait a sec...
WHO'S KOI!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 4, 2011)

Koi said:


> I dunno if anyone else knows who the Mark Reads guy is (he reviews books and watches shows and stuff-- he's done Harry Potter, Twilight, Doctor Who, etc.) but he's starting to watch Avatar on Wednesday.  I dunno if he's doing one or two episodes at a time though, but you can read when he starts at Markwatches.net.
> 
> I like reading his reviews but the community of posters gets really preoccupied with shipping sometimes so.. yeah.  Fair warning.



Good find. 

I'm ready for a renewal of shipping animosity.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 4, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Wait a sec...
> WHO'S KOI!


Yeah, can we stop playing around?

I'm really confused now, what are we talking about now?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 4, 2011)

I really liked the opening of this series, with Katara narrating and briefly summarizing the plot and concept of the series, but it did become very monotonous after the first season (which unfortunately also happened with the otherwise epic intro of _Gargoyles,_ another great western animated series, in my mind). I would like to have had a different opening for each season, or different characters providing the opening narration (as was done in the third season of _Reboot,_ yet another western animated series) for variety. What does everyone else say about that?


----------



## Koi (Apr 4, 2011)

I would have liked THE BOULDER to be the narraror.

But that's probably just me.


----------



## Jena (Apr 4, 2011)

I actually really liked the opening. It did get monotonous after a while, but I don't think it was too bad. The opening was perfect tone-wise for the show. I think that a sugary sweet pop opening typical of other Nick shows would've been really distracting and against the "feeling" of the show, if that makes sense.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 5, 2011)

This was a pretty big debate leading up to The Awakening. I understood the urge, but I'm glad that there was consistency between all three seasons. It was a stabilizing factor in the show, we could always expect that specific open.

I'm pleased that there was no Chapter elevated over another, and that no Chapter seems peculiar due to an amended opening.


----------



## NeoKurama (Apr 5, 2011)

Just rewatched "The beach" episode. This would be my favorite episode.


----------



## Gnome (Apr 5, 2011)

I just finished watching the whole show for the first time. Really good, maybe I should listen to other peoples recommendations more.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 5, 2011)

The opening minute of the series tells more about the history and world of Avatar than the entire Last Airbender Movie.   I'm pretty content with it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 6, 2011)

Jena said:


> I actually really liked the opening. It did get monotonous after a while, but I don't think it was too bad. The opening was perfect tone-wise for the show. I think that a sugary sweet pop opening typical of other Nick shows would've been really distracting and against the "feeling" of the show, if that makes sense.





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> The opening minute of the series tells more about the history and world of Avatar than the entire Last Airbender Movie. I'm pretty content with it.



I do not dislike the tone of the opening, but I do dislike how it always featured the exact same scenes, the exact same character narrating it, and the exact same dialogue. It would have been nice to have had opening narrated by Aang, Sokka, Zuko, Toph, or Azula, providing their own perspective on the background of the series and their beliefs and motivations. Surely, such a tactic would have added additional diversity to the series?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 6, 2011)

NeoKurama said:


> Just rewatched "The beach" episode. This would be my favorite episode.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 6, 2011)

What's this Korra business?


----------



## Burke (Apr 6, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What's this Korra business?



Honestly you must be joking sir!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 6, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Honestly you must be joking sir!



If he is, then I suggest that you do not respond to it, as doping so will only encourage him to continue exhibiting such behavior.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 6, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Honestly you must be joking sir!


No, I have retrograde amnesia from a recent procedure.


----------



## Narcissus (Apr 6, 2011)

Meh, I was always fine with the opening. I felt it had a dramatic touch that worked well for the show. I guess they could've changed it, but it never bothered me that they didn't. 

ReikaiDemon is seriously amusing me in this thread.


----------



## ElementX (Apr 6, 2011)

I was hoping to see a new opening for the finale. It would have been cool to hear Katara narrate everything that happened up to that point. But for the most part the opening is pretty excellent so I can't sweat it.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 6, 2011)

Seriously, I can't remember, I'm not joking -.-


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 6, 2011)

Tell us about real life firebending.


----------



## Jena (Apr 6, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Seriously, I can't remember, I'm not joking -.-



 .


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 6, 2011)

You mean that acupuncturist that can burn paper with his hand?

I haven't forgotten everything in my life, I've forgotten a lot of people and events recently and other points in my life.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 6, 2011)

Do you remember me? We go way back. 

And pay no attention to that thread. I"ll roll with the punches here:


Mike and Bryan's new project
in technologically advanced Avatar world set 70 years after first series
Water Avatar named Korra, a teenage girl
Taught airbending by Aang and Katara's son
Quell's anti-bender revolt
In a place called Republic City where people of all bending disciplines reside
Originally going to be a 12 episode mini-series
Now bumped up to 26 episodes
Track Team doing music


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 6, 2011)

Of course I remember you, though, I don't remember that set you have now.

So it's a new series? I kinda have mixed feelings on that...


----------



## Wan (Apr 6, 2011)

Wait.  There could be a bright side to this.

Do you not remember the live-action movie?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 6, 2011)

Not outside of M.Night being on it, other than that, that's all I know.


----------



## Wan (Apr 6, 2011)

It was an absolute piece of horse crap.  Avoid it at all costs.


----------



## Superstarseven (Apr 7, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> It was an absolute piece of horse crap.  Avoid it at all costs.



I disagree and so does this critic- 


> Pitch perfect and brilliantly acted, The Last Airbender is a stunning achievement, helmed with a purity and honesty that captures not just the illegal abortion story at its core but the constant, unremarked negotiations necessary for survival in the final days of the Soviet bloc.


----------



## Kno7 (Apr 7, 2011)

Jove said:


> Do you remember me? We go way back.
> 
> And pay no attention to that thread. I"ll roll with the punches here:
> 
> ...



Woah. How did I _not_ know that? That's great news. Well I guess it really isn't news anymore.

Kinda sucks they're naming it _The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra
_ though. Damn you Cameron.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 7, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> No, I have retrograde amnesia from a recent procedure.



So, you can recall that you are a member of an online forum, but you cannot recall the specific members of the forum?



Narcissus said:


> ReikaiDemon is seriously amusing me in this thread.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I still believe that he is joking, but if he truly is suffering from amnesia, and does not recall certain details of his interactions here, I shall use that as an opportunity to reconcile with him and hope that I can establish a better relationship than what we have had in the past.


And if _The Legend of Korra_ is being increased to 26 episodes, I imagine that it may have more time to explore the characters and world seventy years after the first series, which I believe is definitely a good thing.


----------



## Noah (Apr 7, 2011)

Assuming this isn't an extended April Fool's Joke. You're all doing it wrong. Except SuperStarSeven. He gets an A+


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 7, 2011)

No, I am serious, I needed to get ECT for my severe depression


----------



## Burke (Apr 7, 2011)

but... in the years ive been on this thread ive never seen you have this before. Youve never asked us this stuff.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 8, 2011)

N??ps said:


> but... in the years ive been on this thread ive never seen you have this before. Youve never asked us this stuff.


?

I don't think I had ECT before.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Apr 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> ?
> 
> I don't think I had ECT before.



Maybe you forgot about it.


----------



## Burke (Apr 8, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Maybe you forgot about it.



buh dum chh


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 8, 2011)

Gee, you're so supportive


----------



## Burke (Apr 8, 2011)

Well since its a recent development then, how did it come about?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 8, 2011)

I already told you, I underwent ECT to treat my severe depression at the end of March.


----------



## Burke (Apr 8, 2011)

Oh i must have forgotten...
buh dum chh


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 8, 2011)

Yeah, that's not funny, I'm scared


----------



## Burke (Apr 8, 2011)

So its just some certain recent stuff or all recent stuff


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 8, 2011)

What? No, I've been depressed for a long time, the treatment was what was recent.


----------



## Burke (Apr 8, 2011)

and it was the treatment that made you forget?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 8, 2011)

We never really saw much depression in Avatar, did we?

There was some moping from Sokka, some cursory apathy from Mai, and unbridled angst from Zuko. Season 1 Aang had some latent issues, like in The Storm and Bato of the Water Tribe... but not much. Even amongst the people beaten down by the Fire Nation, they usually displayed either nihilism or anguish.

I think the only two episode based around someone's depression was Sokka's Master and The Serpent's Pass, and Sokka's Master got past that pretty quickly.


I don't know... am I missing something?


----------



## Gunners (Apr 8, 2011)

Jove said:


> We never really saw much depression in Avatar, did we?
> 
> There was some moping from Sokka, some cursory apathy from Mai, and unbridled angst from Zuko. Season 1 Aang had some latent issues, like in The Storm and Bato of the Water Tribe... but not much. Even amongst the people beaten down by the Fire Nation, they usually displayed either nihilism or anguish.
> 
> ...



Jet, Katara looking for her mother's killer. Toph missing her family.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm not sure those are examples of depression, though.


But I can see it with Jet, yes.


----------



## Koi (Apr 8, 2011)

Iroh after Lu Ten's death/the failed siege, btw.

Azula was definitely PTSD-y.  But really only toward like the last hour.  Zuko too, _maybe_, but I don't think it was as extreme because he had other things to work on.  Though I would have loved to see some more about him between the time when Ursa left and he was banished.  I'm sure that was a really shitty period in his life too.


----------



## Burke (Apr 8, 2011)

Jove said:


> I'm not sure those are examples of depression, though.
> 
> 
> But I can see it with Jet, yes.



intense negative emotion maybe

i like some seriousness in my cartoons


----------



## Noah (Apr 9, 2011)

Koi said:


> Iroh after Lu Ten's death/the failed siege, btw.



I'd call that grief before depression, since he was pretty chipper walking around town all day.

EDIT: Eh, read that wrong. I was thinking about during Tales of Ba Sing Se. You're right. That was a lot of depression mixed in with that grief.


----------



## A Optimistic (Apr 9, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Where would you rank the benders without their ability to bend?
> 
> I mean I always saw people like Zuko, Azula and Aang as characters who could get by on their physical abilities need be, Iroh too when I think about his moment during the eclipse. Toph and Katara I see as weaklings without bending but I don't know where to place Ozai. *His physique seems good but when he was challenged by Zuko during the eclipse he sat down*.
> 
> Pales in comparison to Sozen using the comet to roast the Air nomads out of existence.



He sat down because Zuko was wielding two scimitars. Ozai would knock Zuko's lights out in a physical fight any day of the week.


----------



## Burke (Apr 9, 2011)

Noah said:


> I'd call that grief before depression, since he was pretty chipper walking around town all day.
> 
> EDIT: Eh, read that wrong. I was thinking about during Tales of Ba Sing Se. You're right. That was a lot of depression mixed in with that grief.



Sounds like he needed whatever reikai got


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 10, 2011)

Avalon said:


> He sat down because Zuko was wielding two scimitars. Ozai would knock Zuko's lights out in a physical fight any day of the week.


Not scimitars


----------



## Koi (Apr 10, 2011)

I think it's.. Korra?  And Yue?  As.. ponies.


I feel conflicted.


----------



## Jena (Apr 10, 2011)

Koi said:


> I think it's.. Korra?  And Yue?  As.. ponies.
> 
> 
> I feel conflicted.



Ummmmmmm.....


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 10, 2011)

Koi said:


> I think it's.. Korra?  And Yue?  As.. ponies.
> 
> 
> I feel conflicted.



Oh cool, maybe this will inspire the girl on deviantart that does the custom My Little Pony's.


----------



## troublesum-chan (Apr 10, 2011)

i diagnose the avatar characters with acute adolescence


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 11, 2011)

Avalon said:


> He sat down because Zuko was wielding two scimitars. Ozai would knock Zuko's lights out in a physical fight any day of the week.



Do you have any proof of that?

Also, another user mentioned this several pages ago, and I agree with that user: it was rather unfortunate that only Zuko, Aang, and Katara had major one-on-one fights against a central antagonist (Aang against Ozai, and Zuko and Katara against Azula). I definitely wish that Sokka and Toph had each had a major fight against a powerful antagonist. What does everyone else say about that? Hopefully, the side characters in _The Legend of Korra_ shall have their own major fights, as well.


----------



## Wan (Apr 11, 2011)

Not at the expense of the plot moving forward.  There is more to storytelling than contrived fights, even in a shonen-esque series.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 11, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Not at the expense of the plot moving forward.  There is more to storytelling than contrived fights, even in a shonen-esque series.



What do you mean by "contrived?" I do not believe that such fights would interrupt the flow of the story, if they were well-executed, and the writers of this series certainly demonstrated that they were capable of executing its events well.


----------



## Wan (Apr 11, 2011)

If they take up 75% of the episode's running time, they would.  Which is what would be necessary to give more main characters their own 1v1 fights.  It kind of works for anime, because they can drag things out over multiple episodes, but due to the differences in network management American cartoons get much less episodes than anime.  (Compare Avatar's 61 episodes to the many hundreds of episodes of Naruto, Bleach, Dragonball, etc.)

More fights + same limited amount of episodes = less plot.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 11, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> If they take up 75% of the episode's running time, they would.  Which is what would be necessary to give more main characters their own 1v1 fights.  It kind of works for anime, because they can drag things out over multiple episodes, but due to the differences in network management American cartoons get much less episodes than anime.  (Compare Avatar's 61 episodes to the many hundreds of episodes of Naruto, Bleach, Dragonball, etc.)
> 
> More fights + same limited amount of episodes = less plot.



Yes, you do have a good point there, Mordin, so I suppose that Aang, Katara, and Zuko were chosen to have major fights because they were the most important protagonists and likely the most powerful, as well.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 11, 2011)

I felt like Sokka and Toph were given an ancillary task, but it wasn't merely something for them to do.

I mean yes, technically, it is. And I'm sure someone could come into this thread, firing off tropes and egregiously fastidious platitudes fresh from their 2nd Year Screenwriting class... but it was executed so well that it masked the diversionary aspect of it. They did the yeoman work that allowed the main battles to progress unhindered.


Reminds me of the time the White Lotus subplot was erroneously deemed "fanservice." I could feel my blood reach a rolling boil over that one.


----------



## Koi (Apr 11, 2011)

Anyone who dismissed the White Lotus subplot as 'fanservice' is just jealous that they're not in the club.


----------



## Jena (Apr 11, 2011)

Jove said:


> Reminds me of the time the White Lotus subplot was erroneously deemed "fanservice." I could feel my blood reach a rolling boil over that one.


People honestly said that?


----------



## FeiHong (Apr 12, 2011)

Do you guys know when the Comic of Avatar: the last air bender will come out?


----------



## Koi (Apr 12, 2011)

Was that set for June or am I making that up?  But I think it was June or July..


----------



## Superstarseven (Apr 12, 2011)

Koi said:


> Was that set for June or am I making that up?  But I think it was June or July..



Yeah, _The Lost Adventures_ will be released on July 13th and "Season 4" is set to debut next year.


----------



## Koi (Apr 12, 2011)

Oh btw that Markreads thing starts some time today.  *DYNAMIC EXIT*

First review will probably go up around 1 PST, I think.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 12, 2011)

Does anyone here read any _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ fancomics? I usually avoid those, or fancomics from any fictional series, simply because many of them are less than well-written or feature the characters acting very out-of-character, but I found a fancomic entitled _The Inferno King,_ and although it is not canonical, I find it to be an extremely well-written story, with the events seeming to be a logical extension of the canonical series and the characters acting very much in character. I found it completely by accident, but I recommend it to anyone here who is looking for more _Avatar_ action now that the first series has ended and the next series will not be premiering for some time yet.


----------



## Superstarseven (Apr 12, 2011)

Some great news if you're a fan of The Track Team. Their DC Showcase album is available to order.


For those that don't know- on some of the recent DC animated DTV movies, The Track Team has been scoring all the music. I don't know if they're also credited with sound design as with Last Airbender. Check out the music from The Spectre. Very cool 70's cop show feel.

Speaking of Last Airbender, apparently someone found some music embedded on their official site with the title of _Korrafulltheme_. So of course it's now being made available for all Avatards to hear. 
*here*

Few things: I enjoyed listening to it and it's certainly a departure from their work on the previous show. I really like that it's an update from the earlier theme, it connects the 2 series together. The original intro music was great but this is much darker. It has me wondering if Korra will have a much more electronic sounding score throughout. What do you guys think?


----------



## Wan (Apr 12, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Speaking of Last Airbender, apparently someone found some music embedded on their official site with the title of _Korrafulltheme_. So of course it's now being made available for all Avatards to hear.
> *here*
> 
> Few things: I enjoyed listening to it and it's certainly a departure from their work on the previous show. I really like that it's an update from the earlier theme, it connects the 2 series together. The original intro music was great but this is much darker. It has me wondering if Korra will have a much more electronic sounding score throughout. What do you guys think?



Hmm.  Much more techno feel, to go along with the presumably more steampunkish setting.  I like; this has potential.


----------



## Burke (Apr 12, 2011)

Ah, just what i needed today, thanks man.
So it seems as if we will be treated to this during the epic moments of the show.


----------



## Superstarseven (Apr 12, 2011)

> *Jeremy Zuckerman*
> I think I remember Bryan mentioning industrial or somehow it sounded like we might be able to use some of our electronic...know how or whatever...to enter it into some the score, which sounded pretty cool. That was a long time ago when we had the conversation so I'm not sure if that still really applies, but I think at the very least the industrial nature of that city is going to influence the music some how.



here.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 12, 2011)

Not a fan of the supposed new theme, and hope it's just a random version of the Avatar theme. Sounds like nondescript electro-goth, like Curve or something. Pretty uninspired.


----------



## Jena (Apr 12, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Speaking of Last Airbender, apparently someone found some music embedded on their official site with the title of _Korrafulltheme_. So of course it's now being made available for all Avatards to hear.
> *here*



That is awesome!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 12, 2011)

There is soooo much to read here x.x


----------



## Koi (Apr 12, 2011)

Ohhh I do not like that. \:  It sounds like it belongs in a video game load screen or something.


----------



## Burke (Apr 12, 2011)

Jove said:


> Not a fan of the supposed new theme, and hope it's just a random version of the Avatar theme. Sounds like nondescript electro-goth, like Curve or something. Pretty uninspired.



Its the track team man, never hold any doubt!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 12, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> There is soooo much to read here x.x



Do you need links to the previous two threads?


----------



## ElementX (Apr 12, 2011)

I like it. Classic avatar meets futuristic steampunk sound. Makes me more excited


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 12, 2011)

Jove said:


> Do you need links to the previous two threads?


Why did we do that anyways?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 13, 2011)

Mbxx decreed it, and that German creep outranks all of us combined. Apparently threads over 10,000 posts were slowing the forum down.

He was going to delete every thread over 10k until we managed to let us archive them instead. 


Then there were a few errors so he publicly threw us under the bus like a total cunt and told everyone that he would do it himself. 

We're still waiting for him to finish, months later.



Before anyone could touch _this_ thread, not only did I personally break it down, but I screenshotted all 1000+ pages manually.

Thread 1 runs from the premiere to the Finale.
Thread 2 runs from The aftermath of the Finale to the aftermath of the film.
This thread runs from the day the Korra test art was released to the present.


----------



## Koi (Apr 13, 2011)

Speaking of, does anyone know when we're supposed to get more Korra information?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 13, 2011)

I dunno... unfortunately NYCC is going to be in Fall again, so maybe Comic Con? 

In late-July.


----------



## Koi (Apr 13, 2011)

Nooooooo. D8

I wish Bryke had a production blog or SOMETHING.


----------



## Superstarseven (Apr 13, 2011)

Jove said:


> Before anyone could touch _this_ thread, not only did I personally break it down, but I screenshotted all 1000+ pages manually.
> 
> Thread 1 runs from the premiere to the Finale.
> Thread 2 runs from The aftermath of the Finale to the aftermath of the film.
> This thread runs from the day the Korra test art was released to the present.



My word, man. Sure I enjoyed the thread but was that amount of archiving necessary? I don't even think anyone bothered to do that for the original Superman is a Dick thread on the Allspark forum and those posts actually inspired an episode of Batman:Brave and the Bold.

By the way, how crazy is it that the actress who played Yue has a role on the new show? That's a bit beyond coincidence. I'd love to know the story behind that bit of casting. Here's something cool, Mako vs. Bruce Lee
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uhrB5MEcEs[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Jena (Apr 13, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> By the way, how crazy is it that the actress who played Yue has a role on the new show? That's a bit beyond coincidence. I'd love to know the story behind that bit of casting. Here's something cool, Mako vs. Bruce Lee
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uhrB5MEcEs[/YOUTUBE]



God Bruce Lee was awesome. I used to watch his movies with my dad on Sundays after church. /goodtimes

I don't think it's that unusual. The show reused voice actors/actresses in the past that they thought were good. For example, Jessie Flowers played Meng in season 1 and the creators liked her so much that they brought her back to do Toph.


----------



## Noah (Apr 13, 2011)

I like the Korra theme, but it doesn't sound very steampunk-like. It's sounds more....I don't even know what I'd call it. Neopunk? Almost like a Megaman X style dystopian future.

I guess we'll just have to see how the world ends up looking.


----------



## Kno7 (Apr 13, 2011)

I agree with Noah, I'm not getting the steampunk vibe.


----------



## Quaero (Apr 13, 2011)

Fireman Sam 5 DVD Boxset

Korra theme debunked.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 13, 2011)

It just didn't seem up to the Track Team's level, honestly. Glad to see that's confirmed.


----------



## Gnome (Apr 13, 2011)

That songs not half bad.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 13, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> My word, man. Sure I enjoyed the thread but was that amount of archiving necessary? I don't even think anyone bothered to do that for the original Superman is a Dick thread on the Allspark forum and those posts actually inspired an episode of Batman:Brave and the Bold.
> 
> By the way, how crazy is it that the actress who played Yue has a role on the new show? That's a bit beyond coincidence. I'd love to know the story behind that bit of casting. Here's something cool, Mako vs. Bruce Lee


----------



## Burke (Apr 13, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Fireman Sam 5 DVD Boxset
> 
> Korra theme debunked.



Oh so that wasnt really the theme?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 13, 2011)

I always thought that Zuko would have been more mysterious and interesting if he had kept the scarred part of his face concealed with a mask or strip of cloth, rather than openly displaying it, which would have allowed him to dramatically unveil it at a moment of tension in the story as part of his character development. What does everyone else say about that?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 13, 2011)

I believe that would have been pretty generic and hackneyed, and Zuko's bold display of his scar was one of the things that made him interesting. And it made his character more malleable, as well. Instead of closing opportunities, it provided them; Zuko couldn't hide his scar so he had to openly deal with the pain associated with it.


----------



## ElementX (Apr 13, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Fireman Sam 5 DVD Boxset
> 
> Korra theme debunked.





I knew that >.>

Cool remix though.


----------



## Burke (Apr 13, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Oh so that wasnt really the theme?



Well? Is this so?


----------



## Piekage (Apr 13, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I always thought that Zuko would have been more mysterious and interesting if he had kept the scarred part of his face concealed with a mask or strip of cloth, rather than openly displaying it, which would have allowed him to dramatically unveil it at a moment of tension in the story as part of his character development. What does everyone else say about that?



That seems boring. Everyone and their mother has done the dramatic reveal/unmasking. It's just not exciting anymore unless it's something worth hiding, like Pride's Ultimate Eye in Fullmetal Alchemist. If all Zuko's hiding is a scar it makes him seem cowardly and unwilling to deal with his problems. Like Jove said it's a more interesting character trait to have Zuko display his scar in the open and deal with the trauma associated with it then hide it until the right moment for the sake of drama.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 14, 2011)

I can see why you guys told me to ignore that guy


----------



## Jena (Apr 14, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I always thought that Zuko would have been more mysterious and interesting if he had kept the scarred part of his face concealed with a mask or strip of cloth, rather than openly displaying it, which would have allowed him to dramatically unveil it at a moment of tension in the story as part of his character development. What does everyone else say about that?



No.

Everyone else pretty much said why that would've been terrible, so I'm not going to beat it in further. On that note, one of the first things I noticed about Zuko's character when I started watching Avatar was that he had his scar on display. I remember thinking how refreshing it was _not_ to have it hidden.

Also, if you want "deeper" reasons, it goes against his character. When we first meet him he bears a great deal of shame regarding the scar. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's almost like he felt like he had to constantly have some reminder of his "treachery" and dishonorment. From a character standpoint, it wouldn't have made sense for him to hide it.

And grammar Nazis, yes I am aware that dishonorment is not a word. Hopefully you understand what I mean there and if you want to troll the thesaurus to find a verb form of dishonor, be my guest.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 14, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Jove said:


> I believe that would have been pretty generic and hackneyed, and Zuko's bold display of his scar was one of the things that made him interesting. And it made his character more malleable, as well. Instead of closing opportunities, it provided them; Zuko couldn't hide his scar so he had to openly deal with the pain associated with it.





Piekage said:


> That seems boring. Everyone and their mother has done the dramatic reveal/unmasking. It's just not exciting anymore unless it's something worth hiding, like Pride's Ultimate Eye in Fullmetal Alchemist. If all Zuko's hiding is a scar it makes him seem cowardly and unwilling to deal with his problems. Like Jove said it's a more interesting character trait to have Zuko display his scar in the open and deal with the trauma associated with it then hide it until the right moment for the sake of drama.





Piekage said:


> That seems boring. Everyone and their mother has done the dramatic reveal/unmasking. It's just not exciting anymore unless it's something worth hiding, like Pride's Ultimate Eye in Fullmetal Alchemist. If all Zuko's hiding is a scar it makes him seem cowardly and unwilling to deal with his problems. Like Jove said it's a more interesting character trait to have Zuko display his scar in the open and deal with the trauma associated with it then hide it until the right moment for the sake of drama.





Jena said:


> No.
> 
> Everyone else pretty much said why that would've been terrible, so I'm not going to beat it in further. On that note, one of the first things I noticed about Zuko's character when I started watching Avatar was that he had his scar on display. I remember thinking how refreshing it was _not_ to have it hidden.
> 
> Also, if you want "deeper" reasons, it goes against his character. When we first meet him he bears a great deal of shame regarding the scar. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's almost like he felt like he had to constantly have some reminder of his "treachery" and dishonorment. From a character standpoint, it wouldn't have made sense for him to hide it.





Yes, I understand perfectly well that Zuko openly displayed his scar to show that he accepted it and was attempting to deal with the strife and tension that led to him receiving it and that it symbolized, but I simply was asking a question and being hypothetical about it, just to hear your opinions of the situation.



ReikaiDemon said:


> I can see why you guys told me to ignore that guy



If you are talking about me, please, _please_ do not renew the tension that existed between us before; I wish to make a fresh new start with you, if it is true that you cannot recall your previous activities on this forum.

I also ask that you not allow the other users here to influence your opinion of me, or any other user; please make your own judgments after interacting with another user for a significant duration.


----------



## Noah (Apr 14, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I understand perfectly well that Zuko openly displayed his scar to showed that he accepted it and was attempting to deal with the strife and tension that led to him receiving it and that it symbolized, but I simply was asking a question and being hypothetical about it, so there is no need to gang up against me in such a manner.



You ask a question. Three people respond and agree with each other. Ganging up would be if they all called you stupid for having a stupid idea. It just so happens the idea has been played out a thousand times already and, although I'm sure it would've been the best of the thousand, it would have just been another cliche`. Hiding a face only serves for mystery and emphasized character design. The moment the face is revealed, no one cares anymore.

If you didn't want people ganging up on you (which I'm doing now) for promoting ideas that either go completely against the flow of Avatar or are just re-hashed ideas from other places, maybe you shouldn't bring them up. I don't know if you've realized this yet but, regardless of what you think, you are terribly uncreative.




> If you are talking about me, please, _please_ do not renew the tension that existed between us before; I wish to make a fresh new start with you, if it is true that you cannot recall your previous activities on this forum.



Dude can't remember who you are. Clearly it's your own fault.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 14, 2011)

Noah said:


> You ask a question. Three people respond and agree with each other. Ganging up would be if they all called you stupid for having a stupid idea. It just so happens the idea has been played out a thousand times already and, although I'm sure it would've been the best of the thousand, it would have just been another cliche`. Hiding a face only serves for mystery and emphasized character design. The moment the face is revealed, no one cares anymore.
> a
> If you didn't want people ganging up on you (which I'm doing now) for promoting ideas that either go completely against the flow of Avatar or are just re-hashed ideas from other places, maybe you shouldn't bring them up. I don't know if you've realized this yet but, regardless of what you think, you are terribly uncreative.



Yes, that makes sense, and I have edited my post above to be less confrontational, but why do you say that I am uncreative?



Noah said:


> Dude can't remember who you are. Clearly it's your own fault.



How is it my fault that he cannot recall who I am?


----------



## Burke (Apr 14, 2011)

Is that going to be the theme or was it proved to be false info.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 14, 2011)

PROVEN TO BE FALSE


----------



## Superstarseven (Apr 15, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Is that going to be the theme or was it proved to be false info.



You must have really liked it, eh?


----------



## Burke (Apr 15, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> You must have really liked it, eh?



No i just wanted to know cause i did NOT prefer ir.



Jove said:


> PROVEN TO BE FALSE



THANKYOUSIR


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 15, 2011)

What does everyone here believe that Toph did after the war ended, as she grew older? Aang likely continued his work as the Avatar, with Katara likely assisting him; Sokka may have become the new chief of the Southern Water Tribe, or he may have moved to Kyoshi Island, where Suki had a position of importance; Zuko and Mai became the rulers of the Fire Nation; and Iroh likely retired to work in his tea shop; but what about Toph? Did she continue to fight in the Earth Rumbles, or perhaps become a teacher of other earthbenders? What does everyone else believe?


----------



## Burke (Apr 15, 2011)

She went home and became an obedient child until she was put into an arranged marriage. She lived a horribly normal life. 
the end


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 15, 2011)

N??ps said:


> She went home and became an obedient child until she was put into an arranged marriage. She lived a horribly normal life.
> the end



I hope that you are joking when you say that, because Toph, being as strong-willed and as fiercely independent as she is, would never settle into such a lifestyle.


----------



## Koi (Apr 15, 2011)

Toph probably went into cagefighting.

Or if not, I hope Bumi like groomed her to be his successor or something.  Just because.


----------



## Burke (Apr 15, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I hope that you are joking when you say that, because Toph, being as strong-willed and as fiercely independent as she is, would never settle into such a lifestyle.



ok who has that Big Bang Theory sarcasm picture, i need it right about now.


----------



## Piekage (Apr 16, 2011)

N??ps said:


> ok who has that Big Bang Theory sarcasm picture, i need it right about now.



This thing?



Seriously DDJ, you gotta learn to detect sarcasm. It's like learning how to breath, but for the internet.


----------



## ElementX (Apr 16, 2011)

It would be cool if Toph one day became the head of the Dai Li and reformed them.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 16, 2011)

ElementX said:


> It would be cool if Toph one day became the head of the Dai Li and reformed them.



That is definitely a very interesting idea, because the series itself never does explain what happened to the _Dai Li_ after Azula dismissed them from her service.



Piekage said:


> Seriously DDJ, you gotta learn to detect sarcasm. It's like learning how to breath, but for the internet.



I shall put that image into my signature, as I find that it suits me perfectly. Thank you very much for making me aware of its existence.


----------



## Burke (Apr 16, 2011)

i do not think that this word means what you think it means


----------



## Jena (Apr 16, 2011)

So I go to Nickelodean Universe today, all pumped up and ready to blow my money on Avatar stuff.
In a giant store FILLED with merchandise, they had exactly three things for Avatar:
A plushie of Aang, A plushie of Katara, and a mug that I already own.

I don't care if Spongebob is your more popular show, get rid of some of its crap and replace it with Avatar things!


----------



## Burke (Apr 16, 2011)

i genuinely dislike nickelodeon at times when they dont air avatar.

If only there was a nicktoons network store. aha aha


----------



## ElementX (Apr 16, 2011)

Yeah, Nick definitely doesn't have as much appreciation for Avatar as they should. What they did with Season 3 was ridiculous.


----------



## Superstarseven (Apr 17, 2011)

Nickelodeon hasn't aired Avatar since the series finale. No reruns during the third season by the way. 
Nicktoons Network from I remember (not a part of my cable package anymore) aired Avatar episodes 8 times during a regular 24 hour broadcast day from monday-friday.


----------



## Shade (Apr 17, 2011)

Yeah, I catch Avatar on Nicktoons all the time. It's pretty great.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 17, 2011)

Why would Nickelodeon not be showing re-runs of _Avatar_ when it is one of their most popular series (from what I have observed)?


----------



## Noah (Apr 17, 2011)

Because it, like Invader Zim, appealed to an age bracket they weren't initially intending and they apparently hate that. And it's not as popular as it's made out to be. It's popular, but the other shows on Nick get far better ratings.

In other words: executive meddling.


----------



## Burke (Apr 17, 2011)

Meaning to say that they were intending to appeal to people under 13 years of age, but failed to realize that that generation find humor in shows like adventure time, the regular show, and the 'new' spongebob. So instead of staying with good programming and more quality viewers, they would rather stick with the half witted programming.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 17, 2011)

Nøøps said:


> Meaning to say that they were intending to appeal to people under 13 years of age, but failed to realize that that generation find humor in shows like adventure time, the regular show, and the 'new' spongebob. So instead of staying with good programming and more quality viewers, they would rather stick with the half witted programming.



Why would they do that? I fail to comprehend how a television company could possibly prefer "half-witted programming" over "good programming."


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 17, 2011)

In the old days of Book 2, Avatar would air at 8:30 every Friday, would be replayed every Saturday morning (with another 3 episodes), and two episodes of Avatar would air every weekday afternoon.


Good times.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 17, 2011)

Well, what do you expect from an MTV network?


----------



## Jena (Apr 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why would they do that? I fail to comprehend how a television company could possibly prefer "half-witted programming" over "good programming."



They get more money.

Look, I'm not saying it's right or anything, but pretend that you are an executive for a television company. Your bottom line is to make the most money possible. Ignoring personal views, which would you air: 
The show that brings in 12 million viewers, or the show that brings in 3 million?

Wish it wasn't so, but it is. And it's always been that way. Why do you think they play Spongebob and Dora so much?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 17, 2011)

Jena said:


> They get more money.
> 
> Look, I'm not saying it's right or anything, but pretend that you are an executive for a television company. Your bottom line is to make the most money possible. Ignoring personal views, which would you air:
> The show that brings in 12 million viewers, or the show that brings in 3 million?
> ...



In that case, my new question is this: why would viewers prefer to watch _Dora the Explorer_ or _Spongebob Squarepants_ instead of _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 17, 2011)

DDJ, I'll tell you what.

Look up the term 'lowest common denominator.'

Then we'll talk.


----------



## Jena (Apr 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In that case, my new question is this: why would viewers prefer to watch _Dora the Explorer_ or _Spongebob Squarepants_ instead of _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_



Because they're four years old.

Most of Nick's viewership are little kids-a lot of whom aren't in school yet so their parents plop them down in front of the TV all day. They want flashing lights and yellow sponges that laugh. They don't want to watch/can't understand anything with a plot.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 17, 2011)

Geez even if I dropped 40 IQ points, even I can understand why Spongebob and Dora can draw so much people.


----------



## Noah (Apr 17, 2011)

I swear, sometimes it's like dealing with a very well-written target Nick viewer.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 17, 2011)

There's no point in lamenting it. Avatar has substance, and that generally involves foregoing a measure of accessibility. Avatar did pretty well, and keep in mind that Nick had a bit of administrative shakeup around the time of Book 3.

None of it adequately explains why they simply betrayed the show, with hardly any publicity for Book 3's premiere, no repeats, etc. I know the figures bombed (so badly they cancelled the Fire series even after they had already started production), but other stuff did really well.


----------



## Eki (Apr 17, 2011)

Nick hasn't been the same since the 90's.


----------



## Burke (Apr 17, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Geez even if I dropped 40 IQ points, even I can understand why Spongebob and Dora can draw so much people.



oh cmon reikai, im sure you could still figure it out with an IQ of 6


----------



## Koi (Apr 17, 2011)

Spongebob isn't my favorite show, but when I am watching it I'm not looking for quality entertainment.  It's like how if I want a cheeseburger, McDonald's isn't going to be my first choice, but I'll go to McDonald's when I want a McDonald's cheeseburger.  Spongebob is like visual junk food.  Avatar is the fillet mignon of children's programming.


If that makes any sense.


----------



## ElementX (Apr 17, 2011)

Noah said:


> And it's not as popular as it's made out to be. It's popular, but the other shows on Nick get far better ratings.



I thought Avatar was one of it's highest rated shows. It's new episodes averaged about 3.1 million viewers.


----------



## Jena (Apr 17, 2011)

Koi said:


> Spongebob isn't my favorite show, but when I am watching it I'm not looking for quality entertainment.  It's like how if I want a cheeseburger, McDonald's isn't going to be my first choice, but I'll go to McDonald's when I want a McDonald's cheeseburger.  Spongebob is like visual junk food.  Avatar is the fillet mignon of children's programming.
> 
> 
> If that makes any sense.



That's a really good comparison. And I completely agree.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Apr 17, 2011)

N??ps said:


> oh cmon reikai, im sure you could still figure it out with an IQ of 6


That hurts you know 

I just found out that my procedure did affect my IQ, and I'm trying to come to terms with it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 18, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> DDJ, I'll tell you what.
> 
> Look up the term 'lowest common denominator.'
> 
> Then we'll talk.



Yes,I am familiar with that term, and that some story writers attempt to appeal to that demographic, but I sincerely hope that _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ continues the practice that the first series started of having complex plots and well-developed characters, rather than attempting to appeal to the "lowest common denominator." If I ever were a script writer for a television series or a movie, I would never do such a thing; I hold myself to a far higher standard of storytelling than that.


----------



## Jena (Apr 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes,I am familiar with that term, and that some story writers attempt to appeal to that demographic, but I sincerely hope that _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ continues the practice that the first series started of having complex plots and well-developed characters, rather than attempting to appeal to the "lowest common denominator." If I ever were a script writer for a television series or a movie, I would never do such a thing; I hold myself to a far higher standard of storytelling than that.



I'm guilty of looking down on the low-brow and, for lack of a better word, crappy kid's programming (and just programming in general), but a thing to keep in mind is that it's really easy to sit on the outside and say "I have intellectual integrity and I wouldn't fall to that" when, in reality, you don't know. I'm assuming most people haven't been in an executive or writing position at that level.

And that would be "you" in the collective sense, not "you" as in YOU. I really wish English had a word for that [Besides y'all. I feel like you have to be sitting on fence in Texas, spitting over your shoulder and listening to country music in order to use that word.].

/yeahthat'sofftopic


----------



## Wan (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm just glad that, even with executive meddling with regards to advertising and scheduling, Mike and Bryan got to finish the show.  Too many great shows have been shanked by executives way before their time (i.e. Firefly).  On top of that, the show even got proper DVD box set releases.  That's more than other decent Nickelodeon shows, such as Danny Phantom, can say.



ElementX said:


> I thought Avatar was one of it's highest rated shows. It's new episodes averaged about 3.1 million viewers.



That's small time compared to Nick's bigger hits like Spongebob and FOP.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 19, 2011)

Jena said:


> I'm guilty of looking down on the low-brow and, for lack of a better word, crappy kid's programming (and just programming in general), but a thing to keep in mind is that it's really easy to sit on the outside and say "I have intellectual integrity and I wouldn't fall to that" when, in reality, you don't know. I'm assuming most people haven't been in an executive or writing position at that level.
> 
> And that would be "you" in the collective sense, not "you" as in YOU. I really wish English had a word for that [Besides y'all. I feel like you have to be sitting on fence in Texas, spitting over your shoulder and listening to country music in order to use that word.].
> 
> /yeahthat'sofftopic



I will confess that I am very fond of The Three Stooges, _The Red Green Show, Caddyshack, The Blues Brothers,_ or _Ed, Edd, N' Eddy,_ which are not exactly the most intellectual form of entertainment (although I am not fond of such movies as _Superbad, Knocked Up,_ the _Scary Movie_ series, the _American Pie_ series), so I suppose that I should not be so quick to disregard such series as _Spongebob Squarepants_ or Dora the Explorer as being unworthy of attention.


----------



## Burke (Apr 19, 2011)

Jena said:


> I'm guilty of looking down on the low-brow and, for lack of a better word, crappy kid's programming (and just programming in general), but a thing to keep in mind is that it's really easy to sit on the outside and say "I have intellectual integrity and I wouldn't fall to that" when, in reality, you don't know. I'm assuming most people haven't been in an executive or writing position at that level.
> 
> And that would be "you" in the collective sense, not "you" as in YOU. I really wish English had a word for that [Besides y'all. I feel like you have to be sitting on fence in Texas, spitting over your shoulder and listening to country music in order to use that word.].
> 
> /yeahthat'sofftopic



Well there are points where it would be more correct to say "one" instead of "you"


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Apr 20, 2011)

Anyone up for some ridiculously good Korra fanart. 

(and if the answer was "no", too bad, here it is anyway.)


----------



## Koi (Apr 20, 2011)

I JUST came in to post that! 

Ah well.  Have more fanarts anyway!

*Spoiler*: __ 






Man I so hope there is old lady Toph in the series for real.


----------



## Burke (Apr 20, 2011)

Koi said:


> I JUST came in to post that!
> 
> Ah well.  Have more fanarts anyway!
> 
> ...



I wish i could see the look on this artists face when they finally realize that tenzin is most likely in his 50's

On a related note, i hope tenzin sounds like Cave Johnson xD
(The character JK Simmons played in Portal 2)


----------



## ElementX (Apr 21, 2011)

Something tells me they were lying when they said all of the Last Airbender characters were dead, so that it would be that more surprising when we see old man Sokka or old lady Toph.


----------



## Koi (Apr 21, 2011)

I think they just said Aang was dead, no?  Huge chance we'll see his spirit, though.  And we'll probably see some images of Zuko too, being the ruler of a nation and all.


----------



## Burke (Apr 21, 2011)

were definetly going to see their grown up faces in some form or another for various reasons.... all of which are "fan service"


----------



## Koi (Apr 21, 2011)

And you know what?  I am totally okay with that.


----------



## The Potential (Apr 22, 2011)

Gotta' love fan service.


----------



## Jena (Apr 22, 2011)

Koi said:


> And you know what?  I am totally okay with that.



I will bust out my greatest fangirl scream if when we get to Grandma Toph.


----------



## Koi (Apr 24, 2011)

Can someone explain this to me?




And some more stuff from lolbender@tumblr..

*Spoiler*: __ 












Hahaha.  Pretty slick, Aang.


----------



## Koi (Apr 24, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 












("The real reason Toph left.")


----------



## Jena (Apr 24, 2011)

I love Aang's face in the last panel.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> Can someone explain this to me?




Woah... what the hell is that from? 


I'm baffled; I have no clue what those things are from... maybe SS7 knows something?


----------



## Koi (Apr 24, 2011)

All I know is that I WANT ONE.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 24, 2011)

I dunno... maybe it's that new trend where kids are going to college basketball games with gigantic cutouts of random pop culture things, like a giant Woody:




Maybe this guy found some fanart and blew it up...


----------



## Koi (Apr 25, 2011)

What in the hell.. ? 


*Spoiler*: __ 




LOL BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH BLIND


----------



## Jena (Apr 25, 2011)

Jove said:


> I dunno... maybe it's that new trend where kids are going to college basketball games with gigantic cutouts of random pop culture things, like a giant Woody:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that real? It kind of looks like photoshop to me


----------



## Superstarseven (Apr 25, 2011)

Jove said:


> Woah... what the hell is that from?
> 
> 
> I'm baffled; I have no clue what those things are from... maybe SS7 knows something?



Yeah I remember when she posted that picture on her blog.
Goes all the way back to the third season production. No huge story behind them, just some gag cutouts made to make the staff laugh. They're great though.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Apr 25, 2011)

Jena said:


> Is that real? It kind of looks like photoshop to me



Here's another:




It's something that started at San Diego State. It's become their trademark.



Also: SOKKA LINUS!!!


----------



## ElementX (Apr 30, 2011)

"The real reason Toph left"


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 1, 2011)

Those are awesome images, Koi, and I especially like the ones of Aang grinning evilly and elderly Azula attempting to train her heir to kill the Avatar.



ElementX said:


> "The real reason Toph left"



I suppose that she was, in the immortal words of the Beach Boys, _[puts on sunglasses]_  "picking up good vibrations."  (Or would those be "bad vibrations," in this case?)

As for fanart, I found this image, which I thought was quite humorous ( is its source); I hope that you enjoy it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 1, 2011)

This guy did a lot of Bleachified Avatar stuff WAY back: 


It's always creeped me out because Bleach is so dreadful,  but back in 2006 it wasn't, so I remember things like Espada Zuko pretty fondly. Makes me nostalgic for the heady days of the Avatar fandom; it was an exhilarating time.


----------



## ElementX (May 1, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I suppose that she was, in the immortal words of the Beach Boys, _[puts on sunglasses]_  "picking up good vibrations."  (Or would those be "bad vibrations," in this case?)



 

Kinda makes you wonder how weird it must have felt sleeping next to Sokka's tent after Suki joined the group.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 2, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Kinda makes you wonder how weird it must have felt sleeping next to Sokka's tent after Suki joined the group.



I suppose that Toph either moved to a different location, far from where Sokka and Suki were, or she decided that she wanted to be a part of their action, as well  (Sokka and Suki seem much more liberal-minded in terms of romance, to me, and are thus more likely to accept the idea of polyamory, plus there were hints of romance between Toph and Sokka at certain points in the series).

And on the subject of Toph, in that last image that Koi posted, why does Toph seem to be proportioned differently from the other women in that image (her body seems to be normal in size, but her head is far larger than Suki's or Ty Lee's)? And what is occurring in the image of Aang and Jake Sully? I do not understand the subject matter of that one.

Now, on a more serious subject, I liked how Toph surrounded herself with armor of stone and then later metal, after she developed her metalbending ability to a sufficient level, and how Aang surrounded himself with a sphere of air during his final battle against Ozai, but why did no waterbender ever surround themselves with a swirling sphere of water or ice or a firebender surround themselves with blazing ball of flame? Such tactics would have provided them with excellent defense, or would they have placed too great of a strain upon the user?


----------



## Koi (May 2, 2011)

She looks slightly out of proportion in that fanart, but Toph is shorter and stocker.  She's something like six heads tall whereas Sokka, for example, is I think eight.


----------



## Jena (May 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I suppose that Toph either moved to a different location, far from where Sokka and Suki were, or she decided that she wanted to be a part of their action, as well  (Sokka and Suki seem much more liberal-minded in terms of romance, to me, and are thus more likely to accept the idea of polyamory, plus there were hints of romance between Toph and Sokka at certain points in the series).
> 
> And on the subject of Toph, in that last image that Koi posted, why does Toph seem to be proportioned differently from the other women in that image (her body seems to be normal in size, but her head is far larger than Suki's or Ty Lee's)? And what is occurring in the image of Aang and Jake Sully? I do not understand the subject matter of that one.
> 
> Now, on a more serious subject, I liked how Toph surrounded herself with armor of stone and then later metal, after she developed her metalbending ability to a sufficient level, and how Aang surrounded himself with a sphere of air during his final battle against Ozai, but why did no waterbender ever surround themselves with a swirling sphere of water or ice or a firebender surround themselves with blazing ball of flame? Such tactics would have provided them with excellent defense, or would they have placed too great of a strain upon the user?



Oh god, I hope not! Toph is way too young to be getting some action.

Children are sometimes drawn with disproportionally bigger heads. Proportionately, their heads tend to be bigger to begin with. So sometimes artists draw the head bigger purposely. 

I don't know about the water bending thing, but firebenders probably wouldn't want to surround themselves with a deadly inferno. A sphere of fire would be _really_ hot. When they use firebending, the flame isn't close to their bodies for very long. A stagnant defense of flame would probably do more harm to the bender than good.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 2, 2011)

Koi said:


> She looks slightly out of proportion in that fanart, but Toph is shorter and stocker.  She's something like six heads tall whereas Sokka, for example, is I think eight.



I know that she is short in height, but why does her head appear to be so large? At age twelve, she should be starting to develop the proportions of an adult, and although she is not as old as the other female characters of the series, she should not look like an oversized child, in my mind.



Jena said:


> Oh god, I hope not! Toph is way too young to be getting some action.



By modern standards, yes, she is, but in many medieval societies, including ancient China, after which the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is modeled, girls and women were expected to be wives or even mothers at very young ages, and some of them may have experienced sexual activity for the first time at young ages, as well, because men often believed that they could do whatever they wanted with them.



Jena said:


> I don't know about the water bending thing, but firebenders probably wouldn't want to surround themselves with a deadly inferno. A sphere of fire would be _really_ hot. When they use firebending, the flame isn't close to their bodies for very long. A stagnant defense of flame would probably do more harm to the bender than good.



So Firebenders are not immune to the heat of the flames that they are bending? If that is true, then I can perfectly understand why they would not surround themselves with a sphere of flame.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 2, 2011)

*takes DDJ off ignore*

*reads this*


> By modern standards, yes, she is, but in many medieval societies, including ancient China, after which the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_  is modeled, girls and women were expected to be wives or even mothers  at very young ages, and some of them may have experienced sexual  activity for the first time at young ages, as well, because men often  believed that they could do whatever they wanted with them.



....

*puts DDJ back on ignore*


----------



## Jena (May 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> By modern standards, yes, she is, but in many medieval societies, including ancient China, after which the world of _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is modeled, girls and women were expected to be wives or even mothers at very young ages, and some of them may have experienced sexual activity for the first time at young ages, as well, because men often believed that they could do whatever they wanted with them.



...I'm not even going to touch that.



> So Firebenders are not immune to the heat of the flames that they are bending? If that is true, then I can perfectly understand why they would not surround themselves with a sphere of flame.


Zuko was still able to be burned, so I assume that they're not immune to heat/flame.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *takes DDJ off ignore*
> 
> *reads this*
> 
> ...



If my post above is not correct, please enlighten me, so that I can avoid making such a mistake again. I certainly have no intention of disrespecting your culture, Reikai Demon.


----------



## Wan (May 2, 2011)

It's not a matter of disrespecting Chinese culture.  It's a matter of current culture.  Do you honestly not see anything wrong in suggesting a 12 year old girl joining in the sexual activities of a 16 year old couple?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 2, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> It's not a matter of disrespecting Chinese culture.  It's a matter of current culture.  Do you honestly not see anything wrong in suggesting a 12 year old girl joining in the sexual activities of a 16 year old couple?



What is "wrong" is a matter of personal opinion, but I do agree that twelve years is too young to be engaging in sexual activity; I was merely joking in my above post, attempting to make humor from a situation that was already humorous to begin with. And, of course, there is no actual evidence in the series that Sokka and Suki had a sexual relationship of any type; that is merely the imagination of the fans, including myself.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> And, of course, there is no actual evidence in the series that Sokka and Suki had a sexual relationship of any type; that is merely the imagination of the fans, including myself.



No, it's actually pretty heavily implied in "The Southern Raiders" that Sokka and Suki were gettin' it on.


----------



## Jena (May 2, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> No, it's actually pretty heavily implied in "The Southern Raiders" that Sokka and Suki were gettin' it on.



You don't know that. He probably was just waiting in his tent with a rose in his mouth for Suki to come in and help him garden his bush.

Rosebush, I mean. The bush that he got the rose from. It was probably in the corner of his tent.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 3, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> No, it's actually pretty heavily implied in "The Southern Raiders" that Sokka and Suki were gettin' it on.



Yes, I myself do believe that the storywriters were indeed implying such a thing, but I doubt that they will ever explicitly answer any questions from the audience on that subject, both to maintain the mystery of the matter and because of the young target demographic of the series.



Jena said:


> You don't know that. He probably was just waiting in his tent with a rose in his mouth for Suki to come in and help him garden his bush.
> 
> Rosebush, I mean. The bush that he got the rose from. It was probably in the corner of his tent.


----------



## Koi (May 3, 2011)

Sokka was seen wearing a _lei_ the next morning.


----------



## Wan (May 3, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is "wrong" is a matter of personal opinion, but I do agree that twelve years is too young to be engaging in sexual activity; I was merely joking in my above post, attempting to make humor from a situation that was already humorous to begin with. And, of course, there is no actual evidence in the series that Sokka and Suki had a sexual relationship of any type; that is merely the imagination of the fans, including myself.



Ah, so not only are you immune to sarcasm, but can't really be sarcastic either.  Good grief, you _are_ Sheldon Cooper.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 3, 2011)

I think it's a blessing my amnesia included this guy >_>


----------



## Terra Branford (May 3, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> No, it's actually pretty heavily implied in "The Southern Raiders" that Sokka and Suki were gettin' it on.



That's the impression I got. 

My little brother asked "are they gonna make a baby?" xD
*First I was shocked he asked, and then I was ""*


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I think it's a blessing my amnesia included this guy >_>



Oh, how history naturally cycles itself. 


I'm actually of the opinion that Sokka and Suki weren't doing anything in the tent beyond romantic dinners and philosophy.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 3, 2011)

Koi said:


> Sokka was seen wearing a _lei_ the next morning.



Is there some cultural significance for a person to be wearing a _lei,_ or is that a pun on the word's similarity to the word "lay," a slang term for engaging in sexual activity?



Mordin Solus said:


> Ah, so not only are you immune to sarcasm, but can't really be sarcastic either.  Good grief, you _are_ Sheldon Cooper.



I believe that sarcasm is a very negative emotion, one that is unhealthy for both the person expressing it and those who experience it, so I therefore attempt to avoid expressing it whenever I can.



ReikaiDemon said:


> I think it's a blessing my amnesia included this guy >_>



You are not serious about that, are you? I know that I may seem to be rather difficult to interact with initially, but I would like to believe that I am  very friendly and entertaining, once one has become better acquainted with me.


----------



## Quaero (May 3, 2011)

Look who is back from the dead.


----------



## Quaero (May 3, 2011)

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

In most ancient cultures, the age before being considered an adult was way lower than what is today, and since Avatar uses said cultural influences in it's show, it's sort of justifiable. 

If anything, the writers managed to make the characters sound way more older/mature than the age they have been said to be.


----------



## Jena (May 3, 2011)

But if that were the case, we would've probably seen more married teenagers and children on the show while the Gaang were traveling around and meeting people.

And all the female characters would be stoned to death for not being in the kitchen.


----------



## Noah (May 3, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is there some cultural significance for a person to be wearing a _lei,_ or is that a pun on the word's similarity to the word "lay," a slang term for engaging in sexual activity?



Surely, you jest? You can see a giant drill piercing a wall as a penis smashing into a waiting vagina, but you can't pick up that Sokka got laid through a symbolic lei?

Retire your brain. Now. I banish you from further discussion.





> You are not serious about that, are you? I know that I may seem to be rather difficult to interact with initially, but *I would like to believe* that I am  very friendly and entertaining, once one has become better acquainted with me.



And I would like to believe I can still be an astronaut if I try real hard.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (May 3, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is there some cultural significance for a person to be wearing a _lei,_ or is that a pun on the word's similarity to the word "lay," a slang term for engaging in sexual activity?


 Yeah, it's pretty dumb.  Probably one of the biggest  moment I've seen out of the Avatar fanbase.  I don't get why people are so obsessed with trying to inject stuff into the show to make it seem more 'mature' or 'darker' than it really is.  Especially since you see more direct sexual stuff in Nickelodeon's other shows anyway.  The show itself was extremely kiddy and immature, but it seems some people can't accept that and try to make it out like its The Sopranos or something.


----------



## Gunners (May 3, 2011)

> I suppose that Toph either moved to a different location, far from where Sokka and Suki were, or she decided that she wanted to be a part of their action, as well (Sokka and Suki seem much more liberal-minded in terms of romance, to me, and are thus more likely to accept the idea of polyamory, plus there were hints of romance between Toph and Sokka at certain points in the series).





> but why did no waterbender ever surround themselves with a swirling sphere of water or ice or a firebender surround themselves with blazing ball of flame? Such tactics would have provided them with excellent defense, or would they have placed too great of a strain upon the user?


Traditionally Water benders do not take attacks head on, they redirect the opponents attack. Before you argue that traditionally air benders evade attacks rather than take them head on you have to remember that Aang adopted the traits of all the elements so you are more likely to see him use individual elements in an unconventional manner.

Further more we have seen Water benders surround themselves in Water, Katara's octopus and we have seen Firebenders use Fire as spherical shield, Azula and Zuko ( against Combustion man).


----------



## Burke (May 3, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Look who is back from the dead.



To anyone who forgot, tenzin is most likely in his 50's.
that will be all


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 3, 2011)

> but why did no waterbender ever surround themselves with a swirling sphere of water or ice *or a firebender surround themselves with blazing ball of flame?* Such tactics would have provided them with excellent defense, or would they have placed too great of a strain upon the user?



Try to keep in mind that being a firebender, doesn't make you fireproof (as evidenced by Zuko's scar).  So surrounding yourself in a ball of flame seems like a really really bad idea.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 3, 2011)

I have noticed that most fanart images of Tenzin feature him with hair atop his head and facial hair. How likely is it that he will actually have such features in the actual series? Air Nomads usually shave their heads and do not often have facial hair (with Gyatso being a notable exception), so I wonder if Tenzin will the be same.


----------



## Jena (May 3, 2011)

N??ps said:


> To anyone who forgot, tenzin is most likely in his 50's.
> that will be all


Enough of your lies!!!


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 3, 2011)

I think it's a testament to how batshit this fandom can be when there are people who honestly want to ship a 50-60ish year Tenzin with the a 17-18 years old girl who's also the re-incarnation of his dead father. 

Seriously, the fuck is wrong with these people?


----------



## Jena (May 3, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I think it's a testament to how batshit this fandom can be when there are people who honestly want to ship a 50-60ish year Tenzin with the a 17-18 years old girl who's also the re-incarnation of his dead father.
> 
> Seriously, the fuck is wrong with these people?



I don't know, dude. First Zutara, now this.



_Shitstorm in 3....2....1_


----------



## Burke (May 3, 2011)

ZUTARAISREALOMFGHOWCOULDYOUEVENDENYSOMETHINGSOOBVIOUSANDIHATEYOUFOREVENSAYINGTHAT


----------



## Noah (May 3, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I think it's a testament to how batshit this fandom can be when there are people who honestly want to ship a 50-60ish year Tenzin with the a 17-18 years old girl who's also the re-incarnation of his dead father.
> 
> Seriously, the fuck is wrong with these people?



Eff that. I say good for Tenzin. Let that old man show her a few tricks.


----------



## Wan (May 3, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Yeah, it's pretty dumb.  Probably one of the biggest  moment I've seen out of the Avatar fanbase.  I don't get why people are so obsessed with trying to inject stuff into the show to make it seem more 'mature' or 'darker' than it really is.  Especially since you see more direct sexual stuff in Nickelodeon's other shows anyway.  The show itself was extremely kiddy and immature, but it seems some people can't accept that and try to make it out like its The Sopranos or something.



So...a show premised upon _genocide_ and _child abuse_ is "extremely kiddy and immature?"  GTFO.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 3, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> So...a show premised upon _genocide_ and _child abuse_ is "extremely kiddy and immature?"  GTFO.



I believe he meant that in a complimentary way. Maybe.


----------



## Superstarseven (May 3, 2011)

The Care Bears is extremely kiddie and immature.


----------



## Mider T (May 3, 2011)

Somebody point me in  the direction of all the news on Korra that's been released since the beginning of this year.

I won't ask you to tell me:ho


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 4, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Try to keep in mind that being a firebender, doesn't make you fireproof (as evidenced by Zuko's scar).  So surrounding yourself in a ball of flame seems like a really really bad idea.



I know that firebenders are not immune to the fire of other firebenders, but I was wondering if they were immune to their own fire, and knowing that they are not is slightly disappointing.


----------



## Mider T (May 4, 2011)

What's with these random ass pictures?


----------



## Koi (May 4, 2011)

It's a Boston Skyterrier.


----------



## Jena (May 4, 2011)

I think it's cute pek


----------



## Mider T (May 4, 2011)

Ah, very clever  However the pictures are still quite hilarious and qute. 

I can spell that with a Q because I think of Qi when I think of the blue arrow.


----------



## Wan (May 4, 2011)

Mider T said:


> Somebody point me in  the direction of all the news on Korra that's been released since the beginning of this year.
> 
> I won't ask you to tell me:ho



No worries, I'll put it all in one place for you.

Well, a picture of Korra has been released:



A cast list has been released:

Janet Varney as KORRA
Kiernan Shipka as JINORA  
Daniel Dae Kim as HIROSHI SATO 
David Faustino as MAKO 
Seychelle Gabriel as ASAMI  
Lance Henriksen as LIEUTENANT
P.J. Byrne as BOLIN
JK Simmons as TENZIN

And Dante Basco wasn't officially listed, but he tweeted that he has been doing some voice sessions for the show, reportedly for a new character that has something to do with Zuko.  Dee Bradley Baker is also returning to voice another creature and a person.

(BTW:  Lance Henriksen!  Heck yeah!)

The Track Team is back to compose the score for the show.

26 episodes have been ordered by Nickelodeon.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 4, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Try to keep in mind that being a firebender, doesn't make you fireproof (as evidenced by Zuko's scar).  So surrounding yourself in a ball of flame seems like a really really bad idea.


And waterbenders aren't immune against drowning.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I know that firebenders are not immune to the fire of other firebenders, but I was wondering if they were immune to their own fire, and knowing that they are not is slightly disappointing.



I... that's... I don't even... What?

Are you basing this on the fact that soldiers are immune to their own bullets.  Or how knights are immune to their own swords?  Or how it's always so easy to tell which suicide bombers made their own explosives, what with them being immune to their own dynamite an all...

Seriously, how in your mind does that statement even make the remotest bit of sense?  What would be different about their fire that would make it not burn them.  Congratulations, out of all the arbitrary nitpicks you've brought up about the show that aren't actually things than anyone other than you would even remotely think is an issue, this one takes the cake.


----------



## Wan (May 4, 2011)

Anyways...has anyone gotten frustrated when you tried to look for a specific scene from Avatar, and could only find a crapton of AMVs?


----------



## Darth (May 4, 2011)

lol youtube.

You know how I find a specific scene from avatar? I look through my dvd's until I find the one with the episode in which the scene is from. 

Too pro for you.


----------



## Wan (May 4, 2011)

Well yeah, there's that (I do own all the DVDs btw), and stuff like Netflix.  But sometimes I want to share scenes with other people online! (Full disclosure:  I was looking for the scene where Azula hallucinates seeing her mother so I could post it and then point and laugh more at Akimichi Juro calling the show "extremely kiddy and immature")


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 4, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I... that's... I don't even... What?
> 
> Are you basing this on the fact that soldiers are immune to their own bullets.  Or how knights are immune to their own swords?  Or how it's always so easy to tell which suicide bombers made their own explosives, what with them being immune to their own dynamite an all...
> 
> Seriously, how in your mind does that statement even make the remotest bit of sense? What would be different about their fire that would make it not burn them. Congratulations, out of all the arbitrary nitpicks you've brought up about the show that aren't actually things than anyone other than you would even remotely think is an issue, this one takes the cake.



I have played many video games and watched numerous fictional television series, and in many of them, a person is not affected by their own energy-based attacks, because that energy was produced by their own body (similar to how a venomous animal is usually not affected by its own venom), although that is also often a plot device for the sake of the audience or player so that the main protagonist cannot be injured in a manner that would be embarrassing or detrimental to the story. Therefore, I was hoping that the same would be true in this series, but I can accept that it is not.

Reikai Demon, water is different because it is physical, while fire and lightning are not.

Is that a satisfactory explanation, I hope?


----------



## Jena (May 4, 2011)

I think the crackdown for copyright is especially hard when it comes to Avatar.


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## DemonDragonJ (May 4, 2011)

Jena said:


> I think the crackdown for copyright is especially hard when it comes to Avatar.



Are your referring to how the sequel series will not have the word _"Avatar"_ in its title because of its usage by James Cameron? If so, I agree that it is very unfortunate, indeed, that such legal difficulties are occurring.


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## Buskuv (May 4, 2011)

I'm torn.

On one hand, I actually think the costume is pretty clever and would get something similar if I had a small dog.  On the other, it's hosted on a site called 'daily squee.'

I can't, in good conscious, condone or promote such a site.


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## Shiranui (May 4, 2011)

Is there anyone here who has an especially elegant picture of Avatar Roku or Avatar Kyoshi? It's extremely difficult to find good fanart for these characters.

Perhaps I'm being too vague with "elegant" and "good". If you need an example, I can give you one.


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## DemonDragonJ (May 4, 2011)

Shiranui said:


> Is there anyone here who has an especially elegant picture of Avatar Roku or Avatar Kyoshi? It's extremely difficult to find good fanart for these characters.
> 
> Perhaps I'm being too vague with "elegant" and "good". If you need an example, I can give you one.



I conducted a search, and these are what I found.


*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_


Those last two are my favorite of this group. I shall post a series of images of Kyoshi in my next post.


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## Glued (May 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are your referring to how the sequel series will not have the word _"Avatar"_ in its title because of its usage by James Cameron? If so, I agree that it is very unfortunate, indeed, that such legal difficulties are occurring.



And its retarded as hell, Avatar is a HINDI word. Does Cameron own the Hindi language. In fact Avatar is an ancient Sanskrit word. Does Cameron own ancient Sanskrit. 

The man is a douche.


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## Akimichi Juro (May 4, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> So...a show premised upon _genocide_ and _child abuse_ is "extremely kiddy and immature?"  GTFO.


 Please; tons of shows have that stuff, and Avatar treated it no different.  Any violence in the show was done before the show even began, just like any other show that had 'a terrible war besieged us in the past and the ancient civilizations were almost wiped out'.  Now, if the Fire Nation actually killed tons of people on screen, I'll be impressed.  Actually I probably wouldn't since I don't find violence particularly 'deep' or 'mature'.  As far as a show about war goes, it was pretty awful, and the fact you can invade multiple cities and have no one die is pretty silly.  As for child abuse, please, even Hey Arnold had a better depiction of child abuse with Helga than this show did. Avatar is definitely one of the worst fan-bases I've seen out there on the internet for posts like these who try to make a big deal out of small things, which is why I'm always so hesitant to even mention I liked the show.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 4, 2011)

Now, for images of Kyoshi that I found.
*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_
(technically, this one is actually Suki, but I included it because it was very well-drawn, and the Kyoshi Warriors do have very similar appearances in their distinctive face paint and clothing.



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by  of _Deviant Art_


Again, I saved my two favorites for last, and I hope that everyone enjoys these images.


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## DemonDragonJ (May 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> And its retarded as hell, Avatar is a HINDI word. Does Cameron own the Hindi language. In fact Avatar is an ancient Sanskrit word. Does Cameron own ancient Sanskrit.
> 
> The man is a douche.



Yes, I agree that James Cameron should not have exclusive usage of the word _"Avatar,"_ but unfortunately, his movie is now so well-known that most average people are likely to associate the word with his movie.

As for him being a _"douche,"_ as you phrased it, there are, unfortunately, people such as that in this world; there are several such people at the restaurant where I work, and I must tolerate their behavior, even if I do not wish to do so. The best advice that I can offer in this situation is to tolerate Cameron's personality and actions and simply keep referring to the television series as _"Avatar;"_ perhaps, in time, the legal troubles will decrease the the series will again be able to use the word in its actual title.


----------



## Wan (May 4, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Please; tons of shows have that stuff, and Avatar treated it no different.  Any violence in the show was done before the show even began, just like any other show that had 'a terrible war besieged us in the past and the ancient civilizations were almost wiped out'.  Now, if the Fire Nation actually killed tons of people on screen, I'll be impressed.  Actually I probably wouldn't since I don't find violence particularly 'deep' or 'mature'.  As far as a show about war goes, it was pretty awful, and the fact you can invade multiple cities and have no one die is pretty silly.  As for child abuse, please, even Hey Arnold had a better depiction of child abuse with Helga than this show did. Avatar is definitely one of the worst fan-bases I've seen out there on the internet for posts like these who try to make a big deal out of small things, which is why I'm always so hesitant to even mention I liked the show.



I'm glad you don't necessarily equate violence with maturity.  I agree, but I didn't bring up violence for violence's sake.  I brought up the strong theme of genocide in the show.  The Air Nomads weren't just some ancient civilization that was almost wiped out, they are Aang's people, his friends and family, and they were all killed.  How is it "extremely kiddy and immature" for Aang to come to terms with the fact that virtually everyone he knew, including his mentor, were murdered?  These aren't some far-off people to Aang; from his perspective, he talked to them no more than a few days ago.  And the show had him come to terms with their loss in the second episode.  A few episodes later, it had him experience survivor's guilt for not being there to help protect them.  It makes a difference to his character -- when the Northern Water Tribe falls under attack, he says resolutely, "I wasn't there when the Fire Nation attacked my people. I'm going to make a difference this time."

Obviously, as a Y7 rated show, Avatar has limitations on how it can portray violence.  But the war is never trivialized.  For example, in "The Avatar State", General Fong guilt trips Aang into trying to control the Avatar State by pointing out the consequences of war.  He shows Aang men who had been injured in battle (), saying, "That's the infirmary, and those soldiers are the lucky ones.  They came back.  Every day the Fire Nation takes lives.  People are dying, Aang!  You could end it, now!  Think about it."  Again, how exactly is this "extremely kiddy and immature"?  A show can be for kids (not _that_ 4Kids ) while still addressing mature themes.  Some other examples:  Batman: The Animated Series, Gargoyles.

As for your argument "Plenty of other shows do it too":  No.  No they don't.  I challenge you to find one show that deals with genocide in the way Avatar does.  And even if you did, it wouldn't prove what you are arguing.  If every other show had themes of rape in it, would that make it an "extremely kiddy and immature" subject?  No, of course not.


----------



## Shade (May 4, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> ...which is why I'm always so hesitant to even mention I liked the show.



You had me fooled.



			
				DemonDragonJ said:
			
		

> Reikai Demon, water is different because it is physical, while fire and lightning are not.



wat


----------



## Jena (May 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are your referring to how the sequel series will not have the word _"Avatar"_ in its title because of its usage by James Cameron? If so, I agree that it is very unfortunate, indeed, that such legal difficulties are occurring.



No, I mean that the clips are taken off of youtube immediately and that it's relatively hard to find the show online.

But, yeah, the whole Avatar/Avatar thing is just stupid.


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## Glued (May 4, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> As for your argument "Plenty of other shows do it too":  *No.  No they don't.  I challenge you to find one show that deals with genocide in the way Avatar does.*  And even if you did, it wouldn't prove what you are arguing.  If every other show had themes of rape in it, would that make it an "extremely kiddy and immature" subject?  No, of course not.



Exosquad dealt with genocide as did X-men. God I miss the 90s.

Transformers Animated did have a rape reference such as when Ratchet talked to Optimus about how a part of him had been taken away during the war. How he felt helpless as another bot took a piece of him as a trophy. It wasn't rape, but for Ratchet it was a similar feeling. This same bot later tried to take out Optimus Primes grappling hooks. Later Ratchet is finally willing to talk to Optimus about it. It freaked out Ratchet to the point where didn't even want to face that bot again.

In Conan the Adventurer, Conan once travels to the future where Set, a giant snake god, has taken over the world. He finds Jezmine who has been turned into a Snake woman. Before Conan leaves and goes back to the past, Jezmine battles Set. Jezmine turns into a gigantic snake to battle Set and she states, "You will never touch me again."

Why Set gave Jezmine the power to become a giant snake and what did she mean by, "You will never touch me again." Well that is up to the viewers interpretation.


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## Wan (May 4, 2011)

Genocide as in attempted genocide, or genocide as in it happened and the main character has to live with it?


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## Glued (May 4, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Genocide as in attempted genocide, or genocide as in it happened and the main character has to live with it?



Exosquad was like a poor man's gundam. Phaeton tried to destroy the human race and although apparently half the fleet was wiped out. Only 4 named characters died and De'Leon came back to life, well sort of, he was cloned and the clone had all his memories. Humans were sent into the sun aboard ships. Phaeton killed his own men, sacrificed his own men. He used humans for slavery because humans had created Neo Sapiens for slavery.


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## DemonDragonJ (May 4, 2011)

Jena said:


> No, I mean that the clips are taken off of youtube immediately and that it's relatively hard to find the show online.
> 
> But, yeah, the whole Avatar/Avatar thing is just stupid.



Yes, I find that be very annoying, as well.

Ben Grimm: _Gargoyles_ dealt with the theme of genocide, as well, with the entire Wyvern Clan, except for Goliath, Demona, Hudson, Lexington, Brooklyn, Broadway, and Bronx being killed (of course, Iago, Desdemona, and Othello were resorted to life much later, but the pain of loss was still felt by both the characters and the audience).

As for the idea of _Avatar_ having "mature," themes, I agree that violence is not automatically a "mature" subject, but the manner in which is was handled in this series was.

Obviously, because this series was meant for a young audience, the themes of war and genocide could not be explicitly shown, but for some viewers, especially children, this created an atmosphere of mystery and dread, as the quality of something being unknown often makes it far more terrifying, at least I believe that it does. I especially liked how nearly every member of the primary cast (specifically Katara, Sokka, Zuko, Azula, and Toph) had issues with their parents, then there were also the themes of Aang dealing with the fact that his entire culture was exterminated, the totalitarian government of Ba Sing Se, and the great tension in the Fire Nation Royal Family, all of which are issues that could not be resolved quickly and easily. Helping the young audience to realize that certain problems require a long time and possibly great personal sacrifice to solve, and also the idea that some people simply will not cooperate with others or stop hating them, were what made the series "mature," in my mind.


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## Glued (May 4, 2011)

One of the things that I really respect for Avatar is how Ba Sing Se paralleled the state control of free speech in China. The people of Ba Sing Se, were prevented from speaking, one of them being a university student. The Joo Dee program was a bit much, but it was equivalent to how tourists in China often don't see the darker side. It reminded me of the Olympics, how China tried to cover up the slums and Ghettos of Beijing.


----------



## The World (May 4, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I think it's a testament to how batshit this fandom can be when there are people who honestly want to ship a 50-60ish year Tenzin with the a 17-18 years old girl who's also the re-incarnation of his dead father.
> 
> Seriously, the fuck is wrong with these people?



Are you calling Aang a hermaphrodite?


----------



## Burke (May 4, 2011)

oh please, dragonball did genocide like 12 times


----------



## Wan (May 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Exosquad was like a poor man's gundam. Phaeton tried to destroy the human race and although apparently half the fleet was wiped out. Only 4 named characters died and De'Leon came back to life, well sort of, he was cloned and the clone had all his memories. Humans were sent into the sun aboard ships. Phaeton killed his own men, sacrificed his own men. He used humans for slavery because humans had created Neo Sapiens for slavery.



So, this happened during the show, not right before it?  It may have happened on a similar scale, but that doesn't mean it was focused on as strongly as in Avatar.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Ben Grimm: _Gargoyles_ dealt with the theme of genocide, as well, with the entire Wyvern Clan, except for Goliath, Demona, Hudson, Lexington, Brooklyn, Broadway, and Bronx being killed (of course, Iago, Desdemona, and Othello were resorted to life much later, but the pain of loss was still felt by both the characters and the audience).



I haven't actually watched Gargoyles.  Is the fact that they are the last of the Wyvern Clan an important part of their characters?  As in, do they experience guilt for surviving, sadness for the loss, etc.?  Either way, Gargoyles is regarded as one of the darkest and most sophisticated shows in Western animation.  So any similarities Avatar has to it with regard to themes would be a good thing, indicating the show's maturity.



N??ps said:


> oh please, dragonball did genocide like 12 times



Yeah, but good luck trying to find something thematically mature in Dragonball.


----------



## Burke (May 4, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Yeah, but good luck trying to find something thematically mature in Dragonball.



I think i remember gokus penis on multiple occasions


----------



## Glued (May 4, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> So, this happened during the show, not right before it?  It may have happened on a similar scale, but that doesn't mean it was focused on as strongly as in Avatar.


Exosquad was war; it had suicide, military incompetence, genetic experimentation, eugenics programs, politics, slavery, spying, weapons of mass destruction. It dealt with creativity and human intelligence in terms of creating new weapons. Phaeton at one point wanted to destroy the art of humanity like Rembrandt and Leonard Da Vinci. 

Phaeton in his final hours preached like Adolph Hitler about the Neo Sapien order. 

The good thing about exosquad, it ended with Phaetons defeat.

The bad thing about exosquad, a new alien enemy appeared at the last episode. It was cancelled after this episode.



Mordin Solus said:


> Yeah, but good luck trying to find something thematically mature in Dragonball.




You just had to open that can of worms.

DEAR GOD RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, FLAME WAR OVER THE HEDGE!!!


----------



## Jena (May 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> You just had to open that can of worms.
> 
> DEAR GOD RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, FLAME WAR OVER THE HEDGE!!!



inb4 Dragonball is overrated.


----------



## Glued (May 4, 2011)

Do you guys seriously want to open this can of worms?


----------



## Burke (May 4, 2011)

Nope, back to avatar.


----------



## Glued (May 4, 2011)

Yes, and let us keep it as such.


----------



## Jena (May 4, 2011)

Awesome Azula vids


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## DemonDragonJ (May 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Exosquad was war; it had suicide, military incompetence, genetic experimentation, eugenics programs, politics, slavery, spying, weapons of mass destruction. It dealt with creativity and human intelligence in terms of creating new weapons. Phaeton at one point wanted to destroy the art of humanity like Rembrandt and Leonard Da Vinci.
> 
> Phaeton in his final hours preached like Adolph Hitler about the Neo Sapien order.
> 
> ...



WOW! I have heard of _Exo Squad,_ but never seen it, but this post here makes me want to see it very much. How did I miss such a great western animated series as this?

Also, Ben Grimm, that instance of a new enemy appearing and then the series being canceled is exactly what happened with _Teen Titans_ a decade later; in the twelfth episode of the fifth season, the Brotherhood of Evil and all the other major villains were finally defeated, and that seemed to be the perfect conclusion for the series, but then there was another episode, in which a new enemy appeared, and that episode ended without explaining anything. It was so horrifically frustrating; to me, that ending and the ending of season four of _Reboot_ are some of the worst instances of storylines being cut short in Western animation.


----------



## Terra Branford (May 4, 2011)

It is going too slow. I wish they would release something else. Like an animation, or maybe more pictures of Korra or another character.

That would be cool if Tenzin had like a Padawan Ponytail, or maybe long hair. 



Quaero said:


> Look who is back from the dead.



I loved the creepy, dead look Korra got when Aang appeared 

*Ending kinda creeped me out xD*



Koi said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh poor Toph 



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I think it's a testament to how batshit this fandom can be when there are people who honestly want to ship a 50-60ish year Tenzin with the a 17-18 years old girl who's also the re-incarnation of his dead father.
> 
> Seriously, the fuck is wrong with these people?



I hope no one would ship that. >.>

*All I have to say is "dragonball is awesome" pek*


----------



## Glued (May 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> WOW! I have heard of _Exo Squad,_ but never seen it, but this post here makes me want to see it very much. How did I miss such a great western animated series as this?
> 
> Also, Ben Grimm, that instance of a new enemy appearing and then the series being canceled is exactly what happened with _Teen Titans_ a decade later; in the twelfth episode of the fifth season, the Brotherhood of Evil and all the other major villains were finally defeated, and that seemed to be the perfect conclusion for the series, but then there was another episode, in which a new enemy appeared, and that episode ended without explaining anything. It was so horrifically frustrating; to me, that ending and the ending of season four of _Reboot_ are some of the worst instances of storylines being cut short in Western animation.



all 52 episodes are on hulu.

season 1 1-13

now i want android.

season 2 1-39

Covers of Friday can be entertaining


----------



## ElementX (May 4, 2011)

Yeah they need to reveal another character fast so people can stop shipping Korra with Tenzin just because he is the only male we know. You read the comic. It ain't gonna work.


----------



## Glued (May 4, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Yeah they need to reveal another character fast so people can stop shipping Korra with Tenzin just because he is the only male we know. You read the comic. It ain't gonna work.



the comi relief


----------



## Jena (May 4, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Yeah they need to reveal another character fast so people can stop shipping Korra with Tenzin just because he is the only male we know. You read the comic. It ain't gonna work.



I'm going to start shipping Korra and Cabbage Merchant's son.


----------



## Wan (May 4, 2011)

More like the Cabbage Merchant's grandson.


----------



## Terra Branford (May 5, 2011)

Korra and the grandson of the Cabbage merchant?

Sounds like true romance. :33


----------



## Wan (May 5, 2011)

No, the heart of Cabbage Man's grandson belongs to the grandaughter of Foaming Mouth Guy.


----------



## Glued (May 5, 2011)

One of these days the Cabbages will revolt and all of you non-believers shall pay, ATTACK OF THE KILLER CABBAGES!!!


Seriously though, Cabbage Man deserves some justice.

I hope his future Cabage Patch Kids get appropriate restitution.

Head of lettuce should roll.

If not than justice is rotten and it needs a new gardener.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> all 52 episodes are on hulu.
> 
> season 1 1-13
> 
> ...



Thank you, Ben Grimm. I would prefer to have the episodes on my computer's hard drive, so that I can watch them even if I do not have a connection to the internet and do so at my own pace and without commercial interruption, but if that is not a viable option, I shall watch them online.



Ben Grimm said:


> One of these days the Cabbages will revolt and all of you non-believers shall pay, ATTACK OF THE KILLER CABBAGES!!!
> 
> 
> Seriously though, Cabbage Man deserves some justice.
> ...



Nice puns, BG, and one a more serious note, the creators of the series have said that the Cabbage Merchant will have some legacy in the new series. I wonder what that legacy shall be?


----------



## Glued (May 5, 2011)

You shall all fear the grandson of the cabbage merchant. We shall see a whole new type of bending, cabbage bending.

Of course Huu was bending plants before.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 5, 2011)

Shade said:


> You had me fooled.
> 
> 
> 
> wat


Looks like someone fails physics and all logical sense 

So what are fire and lightning? Are they imaginary then? I suppose I'll start immolating myself right now, I'll be alright as long as I don't believe in it.

Should we even care if someone like Avatar and its fandom or not? I thought we were mature. If not for the sake of honoring opinion, then at least for the smug sense of maturity over dissenting opinion.


----------



## Burke (May 5, 2011)

Reikai's having an "i dont want to live on this planet anymore" moments


----------



## Koi (May 5, 2011)




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## Jena (May 5, 2011)

This is amazing!


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## Glued (May 5, 2011)

Floozy, hehe, cracks me up.


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## Wan (May 5, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Should we even care if someone like Avatar and its fandom or not? I thought we were mature. If not for the sake of honoring opinion, then at least for the smug sense of maturity over dissenting opinion.



It wasn't that he didn't like Avatar. He apparently enjoyed it (although for what, I don't know.  He thinks the story is kiddy, and on another occasion he criticized the action.  What's left?  The humor?)  but called it "extremely kiddy and immature".  That's factually wrong.


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## Glued (May 5, 2011)

Avatar, Mature? 

At some points perhaps, others, not really.

For example Princess Yue's arranged marriage, why not just bash us with a hammer with the words, "arranged marriage is bad," over our heads. No subtlety.

The Witch Hama however was well done with how she learned blood bending locked inside a cage. It was a good example of what life is like in a concentration camp.


----------



## Wan (May 5, 2011)

However mature Avatar is, it's definitely not extremely immature, which is what Akimichi Juro trolled in here to say.


----------



## Glued (May 5, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> However mature Avatar is, it's definitely not extremely immature, which is what Akimichi Juro trolled in here to say.



Concentration camps, internment camps, group lethargy, narcissism, secret police, ban on free speech, refugees trying to escape into the city for protection, technology leading to self destruction, animal abuse, responsibility and environmentalism. 

on the other hand.

Kids tricking elite guards. Kids leading adults into battle despite inability to even give a proper speech. Kids at the age of 11 tackling romantic issues, forced character revelations, contrived devices.

Its all in the eye of the beholder. Akimichi Juro's opinion is neither trolling nor not trolling.

For example when people talk about Captain Planet, people always say that its just a kid's program. Despite the fact it tackled some serious environmental issues.

Samurai Jack can be reduced to guys yelling at each other. However it also had a deep poetic meaning in episodes such as the 4 seasons.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 5, 2011)

Now that two different users have commented about my assertion that "water is physical, fire and lighting are not," I must explain my statement in greater detail.

Water is composed of atoms, physical matter. It can exist and retain its form without a continuous input of energy.

That is not true with fire and lightning. Fire is a reaction that needs fuel, oxygen, and heat to be sustained. Lightning is the transfer of electrical ions from one location in physical space to another. It is not a constant state of existence; it lasts for a mere fraction of a second. Neither fire nor lightning are composed of physical matter (i.e., molecules and atoms), to the best of my knowledge. I shall now immediately add a disclaimer to my post by saying that I am no expert in the area of physics, chemistry, or other sciences that involve the study of heat and electricity, so I am not be completely accurate in what I say, but I am hoping that I have made my point clear when I stated that water was not the same as fire and lightning.


----------



## Glued (May 5, 2011)

Anyways, on a different note. Korra lives in a steam punk anti bender world. I'm guessing the villains will be like radical puritans on a holy crusade trying to exterminate the evil bender witches and warlocks.

They might try to go the x-men route with this.




DemonDragonJ said:


> Now that two different users have commented about my assertion that "water is physical, fire and lighting are not," I must explain my statement in greater detail.
> 
> Water is composed of atoms, physical matter. It can exist and retain its form without a continuous input of energy.
> 
> That is not true with fire and lightning. Fire is a reaction that needs fuel, oxygen, and heat to be sustained. Lightning is the transfer of electrical ions from one location in physical space to another. It is not a constant state of existence; it lasts for a mere fraction of a second. Neither fire nor lightning are composed of physical matter (i.e., molecules and atoms), to the best of my knowledge. I shall now immediately add a disclaimer to my post by saying that I am no expert in the area of physics, chemistry, or other sciences that involve the study of heat and electricity, so I am not be completely accurate in what I say, but I am hoping that I have made my point clear when I stated that water was not the same as fire and lightning.




Zuko, "Fire is energy."

There you go.


----------



## Time Expired (May 5, 2011)

Just got done watching _The Runaway_.  Everyone knows that Bei Fong created metalbending, but she showcases her other greatest creation in this episode: earthgrifting  

 love all the little hustles they pull.  Particularly fond of Toph acting like she gets clocked by the carriages - lol - constable Wang Fire is on the scene to make sure she's properly compensated.  Gotta love Sokka  




Thanks for posting that Koi.  Tis very cool/about died laughing


----------



## Wan (May 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Concentration camps, internment camps, group lethargy, narcissism, secret police, ban on free speech, refugees trying to escape into the city for protection, technology leading to self destruction, animal abuse, responsibility and environmentalism.
> 
> on the other hand.
> 
> ...



The show could have its immature moments, but that does not make it "extremely immature" on whole.  Such a statement implies that the mature elements of the show either don't exist or are vastly outweighed by the immature moments.  That is just not true.

Btw...none of the characters are 11.  Aang's 12


----------



## Burke (May 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> forced character revelations



Oh cmawn.
Name one full episode completely devoted to this.

...


----------



## Time Expired (May 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Concentration camps, internment camps, group lethargy, narcissism, secret police, ban on free speech, refugees trying to escape into the city for protection, technology leading to self destruction, animal abuse, responsibility and environmentalism.
> 
> on the other hand.
> 
> ...



I hope you're not talking about the Scotsman.  That's totally out of line


----------



## Superstarseven (May 5, 2011)

That's pretty funny because Samurai Jack contained just a little more dialogue than your standard Tom and Jerry Cartoon.


----------



## Glued (May 5, 2011)

First rule of literature, show, don't tell.

Samurai despite all its mindless violence and screaming, had some episodes with great symbolism. For example the episode where Jack overcomes Mad Jack upon finding inner peace. Another would be when Jack faces the 4 seasons, each with its own deadliness. Another episode was when Jack killed a sentient robot. The robot was just trying to get his dog back. Its one of the only western series I know where the main character actually killed an innocent being.


[Youtube]IcucW3MfMOY[/Youtube]


----------



## Superstarseven (May 5, 2011)

Figured some here would find this interesting.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utbmAiLW4TQ[/YOUTUBE]
This is a voice acting panel that occurred at some Anime convention back in March. They invited some con-goers to participate in a scene from _The Runaway_ with them.

I also see that nobody linked this news story


----------



## Jena (May 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Samurai Jack can be reduced to guys yelling at each other. However it also had a deep poetic meaning in episodes such as the 4 seasons.



I have to say, I've _never_ heard that complaint before.

If anything, people don't like how _little_ dialogue it had. They thought it was too "artsy".

For the record, I completely disagree. I love/d Samurai Jack.


----------



## Time Expired (May 6, 2011)

Samurai Jack in the Avatar thread...I'm like freaking out a little bit.  

 



Superstarseven said:


> Figured some here would find this interesting.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



That was pretty cool ^^.  Lol Jack DeSokka 

Reps +


----------



## Roxyluv (May 6, 2011)

Ok I am out of the loop so I will just ask
Is the new season out and does anyone have a good link to watch it


----------



## Jena (May 6, 2011)

You mean Legend of Korra?
Not out yet, unfortunately. Gotta wait a bit longer.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 6, 2011)

If you mean energy is not solid, then yes, but it's still PHYSICAL

Heck, you don't even need to be a physicist to have the common sense that fire burns.


----------



## Time Expired (May 6, 2011)

Wait...fire does what now?


----------



## Roxyluv (May 6, 2011)

Jena said:


> You mean Legend of Korra?
> Not out yet, unfortunately. Gotta wait a bit longer.



yea I mean Legend of Korra

when is it supposed to be out


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 6, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> If you mean energy is not solid, then yes, but it's still PHYSICAL
> 
> Heck, you don't even need to be a physicist to have the common sense that fire burns.



Fire burns, but it is not composed of atoms and molecules, and needs a continuous input of energy to be sustained, so I shall agree with your statement that it "is not solid, but still physical."

And of course I have the common sense to know that fire burns; I have been burned myself several times at the restaurant where I work, although the burns were not severe and my skin has thankfully recovered from them.


----------



## Burke (May 6, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Figured some here would find this interesting.
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utbmAiLW4TQ[/YOUTUBE]
> This is a voice acting panel that occurred at some Anime convention back in March. They invited some con-goers to participate in a scene from _The Runaway_ with them.
> 
> I also see that nobody linked this news story



Jessie eisenberg could ahve played sokka apparently


----------



## Quaero (May 6, 2011)

> If you mean energy is not solid, then yes, but it's still PHYSICAL
> 
> Heck, you don't even need to be a physicist to have the common sense that fire burns.



Actually...

E=mc^2 is proof that energy can be solid. 

The more you know!


----------



## Time Expired (May 6, 2011)

Wait...energy does what now?


----------



## Wan (May 6, 2011)

Energy, going by the most basic definition, is simply "the ability to do work."  Nothing necessitates that it is physical.  A ball rolling down a hill has energy (kinetic energy).  Is that energy physical?  No.  A stretched rubber band has energy (potential energy).  Is that energy physical?  No.


----------



## Shade (May 7, 2011)

Hey, DDJ.


*Spoiler*: __ 



*phys?i?cal* [fiz-i-kuhl]

1. of or pertaining to that which is material: the physical universe; the physical sciences.
2. noting or pertaining to the properties of matter and energy other than those peculiar to living matter.


----------



## Terra Branford (May 7, 2011)

Roxyluv said:


> yea I mean Legend of Korra
> 
> when is it supposed to be out



I don't think there is a release date, but maybe the end of 2011? Or about June/July of 2012...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 7, 2011)

Could we please move away from the "physical versus energy" subject, now? I was being slightly impulsive, and did not thoroughly deliberate my thoughts, when I made my post earlier, so I would like to bring a conclusion to that topic that I started.

With there being a city named Republic City in _The Legend of Korra,_ is it likely that the monarchies of the Earth Kingdom and Fire Nation may have been abolished or be in decline? That could certainly provide for interesting story lines in the next series.


----------



## Burke (May 8, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Could we please move away from the "physical versus energy" subject, now? I was being slightly impulsive, and did not thoroughly deliberate my thoughts, when I made my post earlier, so I would like to bring a conclusion to that topic that I started.
> 
> With there being a city named Republic City in _The Legend of Korra,_ is it likely that the monarchies of the Earth Kingdom and Fire Nation may have been abolished or be in decline? That could certainly provide for interesting story lines in the next series.



The fire nation im sure is strong, but i will bet that not all was right with the earthkingdom once the king left. My money says republic city is in/near the earth kingdom


----------



## Terra Branford (May 8, 2011)

Maybe its a city built to overthrow the two? Or maybe its a city that is trying to be separated from them?


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 8, 2011)

I doubt anything's been overthrown. It's almost certainly in the Earth Kingdom, and the cities of the EK seem to be more akin to city-states, so it's plausible that Republic City is simply a EK city-state that evolved.

Probably as a result of the work of Aang and Zuko. RC could be to the Gaang what the Dai Li was to Kyoshi: pristine intentions that had unforeseen historical complications.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 8, 2011)

Jove said:


> Probably as a result of the work of Aang and Zuko. RC could be to the Gaang what the Dai Li was to Kyoshi: pristine intentions that had unforeseen historical complications.



That would be very awesome, in my mind; it would show that even a belief that is good and honorable can be twisted into something sinister and corrupt.


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## masterriku (May 10, 2011)

*THE LAST AIRBENDER*:LEGEND OF KORRA

EXPLAIN THIS SHIT!!!

oh hai guys.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 10, 2011)

James Cameron.


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## Terra Branford (May 10, 2011)

Is this fanart?


----------



## Wan (May 10, 2011)

Probably.  The art doesn't quite seem to fit with the style and quality of the first show.

It makes me wonder though, what will Aang's spirit look like?  He may appear like an old man such as Roku, but Kyoshi, Kuruk, and Yangchen all had a rather younger appearance than Roku.


----------



## Burke (May 10, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Is this fanart?



If i say i hope not then that means that aang died fairly young thanks to being frozen.

sad he died so young if thats the case


----------



## Terra Branford (May 10, 2011)

I kinda like how Aang looks int he image, but how Korra is drawn makes me think fanart. Something's up with that butt


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 10, 2011)

Aang is supposed to have cheeks. Verdict: Fanart.


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## Buskuv (May 10, 2011)

Unless Aang died a premature death to complications from his anorexia, fanart.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 10, 2011)

He didn't want to eat veggies, now that he found out they're living things too


----------



## Jena (May 10, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Unless Aang died a premature death to complications from his anorexia, fanart.



 This made me laugh.


----------



## Koi (May 10, 2011)

I want it to be fanart.. but I also want it to be real just so we could have SOME new information.  Is that bad?


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 10, 2011)

You're a horrible person, but that kitty sig is so great that you're also the greatest person to take breath.


I'd say we should just resign ourselves to the possibility that we won't hear a damn thing until SDCC.


----------



## Wan (May 10, 2011)

N??ps said:


> If i say i hope not then that means that aang died fairly young thanks to being frozen.
> 
> sad he died so young if thats the case





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Unless Aang died a premature death to complications from his anorexia, fanart.



That's the thing, though.  Yangchen, Kuruk, and Kyoshi's spirits all did not appear as they would have looked when they died.  Definitely not Kyoshi, who lived to be over 200 years old.  So an Avatar's spirit doesn't necessarily look as he or she did upon death.

And no, Aang can't have died young.  Korra's only 16, and the show is 70 something years after the end of A:TLA, so Aang had to be (physically) around 65 years old.


----------



## Terra Branford (May 10, 2011)

Yea...I thought Aang died around late 60


----------



## Superstarseven (May 11, 2011)

Seriously, no one's ever seen that piece before? 
Guess I have less of a life than I thought.

Anyway, yes. Fanart all the way. This was done back when the concept art was floating around.
See the artist's portfolio


----------



## Terra Branford (May 11, 2011)

I don't spend much time on fanart searching


----------



## Pseudo (May 11, 2011)

Since all the nations are supposed to be at peace, who is the troll who messes things up?


----------



## Glued (May 11, 2011)

ThePsuedo said:


> Since all the nations are supposed to be at peace, who is the troll who messes things up?



Probably some non-bender. In a world where non-benders must exist, why should they not rebel. If I am a bender, immediately from my birth I am given an advantage that a non-bender will lack. It is inevitable for those in power to abuse that power.

For example, I am a farmer with no means to defend myself. I have magic people shooting fire at me, all I can do is run.

One day a dude offers me a stick that can fire a metal ball at high velocities allowing me to kill said fire magician.

I would start a damn revolution with that sort of power.

Indeed the whole concept of an Avatar maintaining a balance between Nomads, Tribal people, City State Kingdoms and an Imperial State is oppressive in itself. If I am in the Earth Kingdom, I must obey the local king of either Omashu or whatever City State I am in. If I am in the water tribe, I must obey the Chieftan of said tribe. The Fire Nation is an imperial monarchy.

How can I as a common be represented? How can I as a commoner sieze power for myself?

A philosophy of maintaining balance and tradition is foolish, change is inevitable. Technology is continuously expanding.


----------



## Shade (May 11, 2011)

ThePsuedo said:


> Since all the nations are supposed to be at peace, who is the troll who messes things up?



Non-benders who get sick of bender authority, I'm guessing. And with advancing technology, they finally have the means to turn the tide.


----------



## Glued (May 11, 2011)

Reminds me of X-men. The mutants are Homo Superior. Magneto points out how can mutants not rule and dominate, due to the fact that they are innately superior. A mutant has gifts a normal person does not have. Why not use said gifts to dominate?


----------



## Mexicano27 (May 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> For example, I am a farmer with no means to defend myself. I have magic people shooting fire at me, all I can do is run.
> 
> One day a dude offers me a stick that can fire a metal ball at high velocities allowing me to kill said fire magician.
> 
> I would start a damn revolution with that sort of power.



Woah, what? Did they confirm firearms have been invented, or are you just giving an example?


----------



## Terra Branford (May 11, 2011)

I wonder if guns will be involved in the show...


----------



## Wan (May 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> A philosophy of maintaining balance and tradition is foolish, change is inevitable. Technology is continuously expanding.



I wonder if this will be a theme for the show.


----------



## Mexicano27 (May 11, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I wonder if guns will be involved in the show...



I see it as pretty doubtful, to be honest. If they exist, they'd likely be limited to arquebuses or muskets, and they'd never be able to kill anybody with one. Big reason why BG's post caught my attention.


----------



## ElementX (May 12, 2011)

Also guys...it's _impossible_ for Aang to have died young. The show takes place over 70 years into the future. Korra is a teenager, and she would have been born no later than a week after Aang's death.


----------



## Burke (May 12, 2011)

oh, ok, so 65... well in that case, if they show him as like decrepid, imma be mad. 65 certainly isnt decrepid, especially in avatar.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 12, 2011)

I can't find it right now, but I remember reading that Mike and Bryan specifically didn't want firearms in the Avatar-verse.  It's inevitable at some point when you go far enough into the future, but I don't think they'll have them in this show.  As far as Aang's death, M & B said the reason Aang died so relatively young (for an Avatar), is because he burned up a lot of energy in the iceberg.  Since he was in the Avatar state for 100 straight years.


----------



## Time Expired (May 12, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I wonder if guns will be involved in the show...



I wondered myself.  It seems even the very mention of guns gets shot down  

Though I think it's a distinct possibility I don't know what kind of a feeling/negative vibes it would bring to the show.  They did an excellent job of balancing action, violence, and lethal force.  Interestingly, even archery was used sparingly and creatively.  IIRC in the episode _The Blue Spirit_, the elite Yu Yan knocked Zuko out with a blunt-point (or perhaps it was implied).


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 12, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Also guys...it's _impossible_ for Aang to have died young. The show takes place over 70 years into the future. Korra is a teenager, and she would have been born no later than a week after Aang's death.



And he was already 112.


----------



## Burke (May 12, 2011)

if that horse had a command on this forum, what would it be?

i thiiink...
:logic
:dontmindme
lol


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 13, 2011)

:jove 


Inside info: don't hold your breath.


----------



## Mider T (May 13, 2011)

So Aang should have known in a small tribe such as the Southern Water Benders when he was getting on in years and somebody got pregnant game was almost over.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 13, 2011)

It does not seem likely to happen at any point in the near future of this franchise, but I still want to see a tyrannical Avatar who believes that oppressing the people of the world will bring balance, similar to what Sozin was doing. I also would like to see an Avatar who is fiendishly clever and extremely skilled at manipulating other people, similar to Azula. Those would be welcome (to me) departures from the excessively saintly Avatars who have been shown thus far.


----------



## Koi (May 13, 2011)

I'd actually be really interested to see that.  Honestly though, I bet if Aang hadn't died, and there was someone a Fire-based Avatar in the years of the war we probably would have seen something like that.  But you're right, Sozin's probably the closest we'll get.

Kuruk was supposed to be kind of a total dick or something though, right?


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 13, 2011)

Koi said:


> I'd actually be really interested to see that.  Honestly though, I bet if Aang hadn't died, and there was someone a Fire-based Avatar in the years of the war we probably would have seen something like that.  But you're right, Sozin's probably the closest we'll get.
> 
> Kuruk was supposed to be kind of a total dick or something though, right?




Ehhhhhh... maybe a douche, not a dick. He was a surfer dude, insouciant and casual and more interested in making lotus tornados than maintaining balance in the world. But there was no strife to handle, so it didn't matter. He could travel the world impressing girls and being a detached oaf without consequences (besides leaving himself open to Koh).


Which makes me wonder whether the personality of the Avatar has a slight influence on the world around them. Kuruk was casual, Kyoshi was stern, Aang was conflicted... coincidence or context?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 13, 2011)

Jove, on the subject of Koh, he told Aang that they "would meet again," but they never did, which I found to be very disappointing; was anyone else disappointed by that?


----------



## Jena (May 13, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Jove, on the subject of Koh, he told Aang that they "would meet again," but they never did, which I found to be very disappointing; was anyone else disappointed by that?



EXTREMELY. I was hoping to see Koh in the final battle.

Although, this makes it very likely that he will appear to Korra.


----------



## Muk (May 13, 2011)

so korra still hasn't aired yet?


----------



## Time Expired (May 13, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Jove, on the subject of Koh, he told Aang that they "would meet again," but they never did, which I found to be very disappointing; was anyone else disappointed by that?



Totally.  The thing was freaky.  I scream like a little girl when an ordinary centipede runs out in someone's basement   I would definitely have to go right into the Avatar State and rain down fiery hot death upon Koh. 

...ohhh no bending in the Spirit realm.   how about bug spray?  Do they have any of that?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 13, 2011)

On the subject of the Spirit Realm, can other people, apart from the Avatar, travel to it? I cannot see why very spiritual people such as Guru Pathik, Huu, or Iroh could not visit it. And can someone with strong willpower alter its substance or physics, as it is spiritual, not physical?


----------



## Glued (May 13, 2011)

Zhaio did mention that Iroh had some problems with the spirits during his invasion of Ba Sing Se.

Iroh doesn't really seem like the enlightened type. He's too attached to this world.

The Guru however seems to be able to transcend to a higher level along with Aang.


----------



## ElementX (May 13, 2011)

Iroh can see spirits, which may mean that he has visited the Spirit Realm at least once. 

The original series took place in little under a year. Aang has the rest of his life to go through, and a place in the Spirit Realm after that, so Koh has plenty of time for a reunion.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 13, 2011)

Koh was referring to the Avatar in general, not Aang specificly.


----------



## Burke (May 13, 2011)

^ Exactly, Well see Koh face Korra


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 13, 2011)

It worries me when it was said that Iroh once went to the spirit realm. Well, half of it worries me, he could meditate to there, but the other possibility is suicide...


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 13, 2011)

I can't remember if I made a list of it, but I'd rank Iroh's trip to the Spirit World as the #1 unexplored story in the series, even above Ursa. It adds to Iroh's mystic appeal and mysterious history, but I really want to know how the hell he got there and why he maintains some of those qualities.


----------



## Wan (May 13, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Jove, on the subject of Koh, he told Aang that they "would meet again," but they never did, which I found to be very disappointing; was anyone else disappointed by that?



Aang actually did encounter Koh again, in the "Escape from the Spirit World" web game/flash comic that occured between seasons 1 and 2.  He just has no memory of it.


----------



## Terra Branford (May 13, 2011)

What? Iroh may have visited the Spirit Realm?


----------



## Jena (May 13, 2011)

Jove said:


> I can't remember if I made a list of it, but I'd rank Iroh's trip to the Spirit World as the #1 unexplored story in the series, even above Ursa. It adds to Iroh's mystic appeal and mysterious history, but I really want to know how the hell he got there and why he maintains some of those qualities.



Wait, wait, when did this happen? When did he say he went to the spirit world? 
Either I missed that or (more likely) I'm having trouble remembering.


----------



## Koi (May 13, 2011)

I wonder if it had anything to do with his relationship with the dragons.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 13, 2011)

_*Zhao*: I discovered a hidden library, underground in fact. I tore through scroll after scroll. One of them contained a detailed illustration and the words moon and ocean. I knew then that these spirits could be found  and killed. (The memory ends with a close up of Zhao's eyes, then fade to the present.) And that it was my destiny to do so.

*Iroh *(angry): Zhao, the Spirits are not to be trifled with!

*Zhao *(patronizingly): Yes, yes, I know you fear the Spirits, Iroh. I've heard rumors about your journey into the Spirit World. But the Ocean and Moon gave up their immortality to become a part of our world  (cut to a shot behind the two, showing the assault on the city) and now they will face the consequences!_


What we've seen from Iroh suggests the rumors are true. If I remember correctly, somewhere (maybe an interview?) it was said that he went to the SW in response to Lu Ten's death.


----------



## Terra Branford (May 13, 2011)

Thanks for that Jove. I must have not heard that part or it was completely wiped from my mind 

Poor Iroh. Every time I think of Iroh, I think of the episode (forget the name xD) where it switches between the characters. Very sad


----------



## Jena (May 14, 2011)

Jove said:


> _*Zhao*: I discovered a hidden library, underground in fact. I tore through scroll after scroll. One of them contained a detailed illustration and the words moon and ocean. I knew then that these spirits could be found  and killed. (The memory ends with a close up of Zhao's eyes, then fade to the present.) And that it was my destiny to do so.
> 
> *Iroh *(angry): Zhao, the Spirits are not to be trifled with!
> 
> ...



Thanks! I totally forgot about that.


----------



## Koi (May 14, 2011)

OH GOD THAT MAKES IT ABOUT TEN THOUSAND TIMES SADDER

8CCCC


----------



## Time Expired (May 14, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Thanks for that Jove. I must have not heard that part or it was completely wiped from my mind
> 
> *Poor Iroh. Every time I think of Iroh, I think of the episode (forget the name xD) where it switches between the characters. Very sad *



Tales of Ba Sing Se


----------



## Jena (May 14, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Thanks for that Jove. I must have not heard that part or it was completely wiped from my mind
> 
> Poor Iroh. Every time I think of Iroh, I think of the episode (forget the name xD) where it switches between the characters. Very sad



Bwahaha 

I'm not kidding, I've seen that episode at least three times and I still tear up at that part. I KNOW IT'S COMING BUT I'M NEVER PREPARED.


----------



## Gunners (May 14, 2011)

Yeah that scene along with Iroh hugging Zuko were emotional.


----------



## Time Expired (May 14, 2011)

Jena said:


> Bwahaha
> 
> I'm not kidding, I've seen that episode at least three times and I still tear up at that part. I KNOW IT'S COMING BUT I'M NEVER PREPARED.



I don't know if there is a way to brace yourself for Iroh's grief.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 14, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Aang actually did encounter Koh again, in the "Escape from the Spirit World" web game/flash comic that occured between seasons 1 and 2.  He just has no memory of it.



Is a flash game such as that considered to be canonical to the main television series, or merely filler?


----------



## Terra Branford (May 14, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is a flash game such as that considered to be canonical to the main television series, or merely filler?



If they signed off on it or helped with it, then it should be....


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 14, 2011)

It's very likely that Iroh was suicidal, and possibly gave him the means to traverse to the SW.

But it's also possible that he didn't have to die, and that his grief  was powerful enough to spur him on a journey through the world to find a  way to the SW, or that his grief alone allowed him go beyond the  "physical" world.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 14, 2011)

Escape from the Spirit World is 100% canon. It was written by Mike, soundtracked by the Track team, and animated by the Avatar crew.

Mike confirmed its canonical status in an interview, so all of it, from Kyoshi's age to her creation of the Dai Li, is canon.


----------



## Wan (May 14, 2011)

Jove said:


> [What we've seen from Iroh suggests the rumors are true. If I remember correctly, somewhere (maybe an interview?) it was said that he went to the SW in response to Lu Ten's death.



Also, Iroh saw Aang and Roku's dragon fly by in "The Winter Solstice, Part 1"



DemonDragonJ said:


> Is a flash game such as that considered to be canonical to the main television series, or merely filler?



It's canon.  Along with what Jove said, it was included on the bonus disc to the Season 2 DVD box set.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 14, 2011)

Jove said:


> Escape from the Spirit World is 100% canon. It was written by Mike, soundtracked by the Track team, and animated by the Avatar crew.
> 
> Mike confirmed its canonical status in an interview, so all of it, from Kyoshi's age to her creation of the Dai Li, is canon.





Mordin Solus said:


> It's canon. Along with what Jove said, it was included on the bonus disc to the Season 2 DVD box set.



Yes, that makes sense; it is always nice when the creators of a series provide information that was not provided in the series itself. Conversely, it is usually very frustrating when the creators of a series do _not_ provide information that is not provided within the series itself.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 14, 2011)

I never beat that game, Koh stole my face and I just gave up and planned to play it another day


----------



## Terra Branford (May 14, 2011)

I've never even heard of the flash game. I was really out of the Avatar news


----------



## Jena (May 14, 2011)

Where can you play the game? Is it online or do you have to buy it?


----------



## Koi (May 14, 2011)

It was online at Nick.com but I'm not sure if it's still active. (Probably not.)


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 15, 2011)

Oh, there's a great story to Escape from the Spirit World.

I'm not sure what the thread was like back in February 2007. I came about in November, mainly because of the preposterous tactic UK Nick employed of airing 305-309 in one week, well before they aired in the US. I haven't gone back and read through, but when I came around the thread only had a couple hundred pages (and that was through episode 311), so I imagine they didn't fly thorugh pages like we would have.



Anyway, so Crossroads of Destiny aired in December 2006. At the time, Avatar was clearly a priority for Nickelodeon. The Burger King promotion to promote the second half of Book 2 was a success, and Avatar was aired quite frequently on the main network. In fact, not only did they air repeats of new episodes over the weekend (something they did not once in Book 3), they actually had a Saturday morning Avatar block from 11 AM to 12 Noon.

Obviously, there was a maelstrom of fan activity in response to Crossroads of Destiny (which one sad, uninspired fan ranked the #1  episode of the show in a character-limit destroying series of posts on an non-Avatar anime forum). Because Book 1 debuted in February, and Book 2 debuted in March, the fandom remained kinetic in anticipation of a quick turnaround. Discussion remained heavy through January and into February.

I should point out that from the beginning there had been rumors of an extended hiatus, but they were dismissed as unrealistic gossip.

So when Escape from the Spirit World was announced, it seemed improbable that it would not lead to an airdate for 301. Most speculated a late-March-Mid April season premiere.

The way Escape from the Spirit World worked was that each Saturday, for four Saturdays in a row, a password would be provided during the aforementioned Avatar block. You would then go to the Escape from the Spirit World game and play a flash game. If you beat the game, you would be prompted for the password, and, once entered, you would be shown a video chronicling Aang's journey to recapture his Avatar Spirit by meeting the previous four Avatars in the Spirit World.

So, Saturday morning, practically at 12:01, people started to flood the Escape from the Spirit World page and test passwords. By 6 AM, all the passwords had been determined. It was ridiculous. The first one was Bosco. The second, third, and fourth were the names of the Avatars themselves. Kyoshi, Kuruk, and Yangchen... 

We thought they were just placeholder names... but that's what they ended up being in the end. That's how much effort Nick.com was putting into this thing. We were all a little perplexed.


But it was cool because their lax casualness, which we should have seen a baleful portend, led to most of the fandom viewing the first three videos in the four-part story by the time the Avatar block aired later that morning. In fact, by the early afternoon the three videos were ripped and uploaded. Most of us had the physical videos of the first three parts of Escape from the Spirit World on our hard drives by that night.

The fourth, however, was blocked. It remained blocked throughout the process, which meant that we all had to wait a very arduous three weeks to view it. This was interpreted to mean one thing, and one thing only: AIRDATE.

Obviously, the reason they didn't want us to see the culminating video was because it contained something worth withholding. It had to be an airdate announcement.

So, at 12:01 on Yangchen Saturday, the Avatar fandom flooded the Escape from the Spirit World game, anxiously proceeded through the perfunctory game, entered the totally uninspired password, and waited for the video to load...

And it was a very beautifully told lecture on friendship and perseverance by Yangchen. And nothing more. Just the physically spoken moral of the Escape from the Spirit World story (and, in part, the Avatar story itself, I suppose).

Fan shock.

Fan dissension.

And then we dug in and entrenched for the long wait until we heard a goddamn word about when Book 3 would air. And I watched the agonizing process as the fandom slowly withered to nearly nothing, until mid-July, when SDCC sparked the fandom resurrection, which has continued unabated until today.


And that's the story of Escape from the Spirit World.


----------



## Burke (May 15, 2011)

> (which one sad, uninspired fan ranked the #1 episode of the show in a character-limit destroying series of posts on an non-Avatar anime forum).


----------



## Jena (May 15, 2011)

^Thank you good sir! 

I'm kind of glad I didn't know about it at the time. That was back when I had really crappy dial-up internet so I couldn't play games or watch videos on my computer. That's really cool though. I'll bet it was fun to be in on that.


----------



## Burke (May 15, 2011)

Korra fanart is mostly bad, so imma do it justice, gimme a few days 

edit: for a sketch


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 15, 2011)

I am wondering if Korra will gather companions from all the different nations  of the world as she travels around it, as did Aang. Does anyone else here hope that she does that?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 15, 2011)

Nice find, Reikai Demon; as unfortunate as that image may be, it is the truth, as James Cameron had started development on his _Avatar_ at least a decade before it was released.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 16, 2011)

When you see it...


----------



## Jena (May 16, 2011)

^OH MY GOD


----------



## Burke (May 16, 2011)

Bricks hath been shat.

WHICH EPISODE WAS THIS


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 16, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Bricks hath been shat.
> 
> WHICH EPISODE WAS THIS



Newest one I believe.


----------



## Koi (May 16, 2011)

Holy crap!  Is that real?!  I haven't watched the Simpsons in a long time.


----------



## Superstarseven (May 16, 2011)

Big thanks goes out to the eagle-eyed fan who was able to spot this because I know I didn't. The Cleveland show had someone cosplaying as Naruto and my thoughts immediately went to how cool it would be if an Avatar reference was made on one of those prime-time animated series. Boom! Not only did it happen on the same night but also on the longest-running one. 

Actually Cleveland show _did_ make a joke about throwing stuff at M. Night Shyamalan during a Comic-con panel, figured that would be as close as a shout-out to the franchise as it would get. Glad I was proven wrong.


----------



## Mexicano27 (May 16, 2011)

Hahaha. Pretty good catch.


----------



## Koi (May 17, 2011)

Colbert made a joke about having to watch The Last Airbender as a punishment in hell.  I think it was in reference to Osama Bin Laden's death but I don't remember.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 17, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> When you see it...



Excellent find, Stab-O-Tron; I shall definitely give you +rep for it.


----------



## Terra Branford (May 17, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> When you see it...



Is that really in the episode? 

Thanks for sharing the image, Stab 

*my little brother and sister will love to see this xD*


----------



## Wan (May 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Nice find, Reikai Demon; as unfortunate as that image may be, it is the truth, as James Cameron had started development on his _Avatar_ at least a decade before it was released.



Bah.  He should've made a fuss when the show first started using the name, then.  Not be like "Oh yeah, you know that name you've used for all three seasons of your show and that everyone knows you by?  I've been "planning" on using it for a decade.  Sucker."  Total jerk move.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> When you see it...



Now that is awesome.


----------



## Superstarseven (May 17, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Bah.  He should've made a fuss when the show first started using the name, then.  Not be like "Oh yeah, you know that name you've used for all three seasons of your show and that everyone knows you by?  I've been "planning" on using it for a decade.  Sucker."  Total jerk move.



See if if he wants to use that argument for his proposed trilogy of films, that's fine. It's his realm. What I don't understand is why that had to carry over to the animated franchise. The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra doesn't make much sense. Why would the subtitle be used to kick off a new story in the franchise? It's a specific plot point that was relevant to the first series. 

Now if it turns out that Mike and Bryan planned to stick the with that title from the start, there would have to be a hell of an explanation for it. I'm a blind loyalist too so if they have to satisfy me with an answer for anything regarding Avatar, it's serious.


----------



## Shade (May 17, 2011)

^ I agree that it's a bullshit to use the old subtitle as the main title now, but what other choice would Mike and Bryan have? They needed to a name with some sort of callback to the old series to connect them for the general Nick-watching populace and with 'Avatar' taken, they had to go with the next best choice (which isn't very good at all).


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 17, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Bah.  He should've made a fuss when the show first started using the name, then.  Not be like "Oh yeah, you know that name you've used for all three seasons of your show and that everyone knows you by?  I've been "planning" on using it for a decade.  Sucker."  Total jerk move.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that is awesome.


James Cameron shouldn't even have any power over the word Avatar, as far as I know, he didn't have any trademark rights over the title, and that Avatar was just a minor inkling as a suggested title.

Paramount doesn't seem to give two shits about the franchise, and instead of ending the matter in a legally successful manner, they let that douche have it. 

And I wholeheartedly think he chose that heinous free font Papyrus over the original fonts his designers made just to spite.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 17, 2011)

I am displeased that the word "Avatar" is not being used in the title of the new series, but as long as they use it in the series itself, I will not be _too_ displeased.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 17, 2011)

That Simpsons thing floored me. Crazy Avatarling Jove is now seriously trying to convince me to buy that DVD set to hear the commentary and see if they mention it. 

Probably not; it was probably something the animators just threw in on their own. 


And there's really only one logical side to the name right story: if the show was allowed to use the name previously, they should be allowed to use it now. 


But keep this in mind: remember how Apple and The Beatles were in constant litigation? Basically, the Beatles trademarked Apple in 1968 for their disastrous record label/everything company. When Steve Jobs, et al broke through in the earl 80's under the name Apple, the Beatles and their legal team were totally cool with that, so long as Apple Computers remained a computer-based company and did not infringe upon the entertainment industry.

When Apple did, all hell broke loose. Eventually it was settled, but it was still balderdash. I don't care _what_ Apple makes; I'll never be a Mac person. Itunes is a necessary evil, only because they saturated the market before anyone else even got off the ground.


But the moral is: The Beatles were in the right, Apples totally overstepped. Not merely for having the audacity to challenge The Beatles, but the agreement was pretty clear. So perhaps there was an existing agreement.


This all breaks down because:

1. James Cameron is not the Beatles.

2. Apple is not Avatar, the Beatles of everything not related to music (except the Track Team, The Beatles of that kind of music). 

Cameron's team should just act like civil human beings and let a superior product use their original name. 

Het Einde.


----------



## Wan (May 17, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Now if it turns out that Mike and Bryan planned to stick the with that title from the start, there would have to be a hell of an explanation for it. I'm a blind loyalist too so if they have to satisfy me with an answer for anything regarding Avatar, it's serious.



Well, with Aang dead his son Tenzin might be the last airbender now.

I fear someday the DVDs of the first show will be rereleased with the title "Avatar" removed, and the intro of each episode will be edited likewise.  I will never be happier to have my original DVD box set releases than on that day...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 17, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Well, with Aang dead his son Tenzin might be the last airbender now.
> 
> I fear someday the DVDs of the first show will be released with the title "Avatar" removed, and the intro of each episode will be edited likewise.  I will never be happier to have my original DVD box set releases than on that day...



First, how could they possibly remove references to the Avatar, when the Avatar is the central aspect of the series and the franchise?

Second, bending ability is not necessarily genetic, as Sokka cannot bend the way that Katara can, and there is no evidence that Toph's parents can bend, so I fail to see how Tenzin will then be the last airbender after Aang dies.

And on that subject, how is it possible that the Fire Nation killed _every_ airbender? I do not see how it is realistically feasible that Aang was the _only_ airbender to survive the massacre. What does everyone else say about that?


----------



## Shade (May 17, 2011)

From what I've heard, James Cameron had the name trademarked from the mid-90s when he completed and submitted the script. But Jove is right, if that's the case, Nick shouldn't have been allowed to use it in the first place. 

If the subtitle wasn't as generic as it is, I would hope that we get a small-font 'The Last Airbender' on top (the way it says Nickelodeon for the original series) with the subtitle emboldened in the foreground. Unfortunately, it's a disappointment on either side of the colon.


----------



## Wan (May 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, how could they possibly remove references to the Avatar, when the Avatar is the central aspect of the series and the franchise?



I mean remove the word "Avatar" from the DVD cover and the opening title.



> Second, bending ability is not necessarily genetic, as Sokka cannot bend the way that Katara can, and there is no evidence that Toph's parents can bend, so I fail to see how Tenzin will then be the last airbender after Aang dies.



It's not necessarily genetic, but it seems to be directly tied to ethnicity.  A Firebender could never, ever be born to an Earth Kingdom family.  With no more Air Nomads, there is no one else to give birth to an Airbender.



> And on that subject, how is it possible that the Fire Nation killed _every_ airbender? I do not see how it is realistically feasible that Aang was the _only_ airbender to survive the massacre. What does everyone else say about that?



The Air Nomads seemed to have the smallest (or second smallest) population of the Four Nations.  Unlike the continent-spanning Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom cultures, the Air Nomads were limited to four rather small temple settlements.  Exterminate all four of the temples, and maybe do some persecution of them worldwide to make sure they're gone, and no more airbenders.  The few survivors who escaped deep into the Earth Kingdom probably interbred, had no Airbender offspring, and were dead by the time that Aang awoke from the iceberg.

Although there is a fan theory that Ty Lee has Airbender ancestry -- she has seemingly supernatural acrobatic abilities, and her irises are grey like airbenders (all other Fire Nation characters have golden yellow irises)


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 18, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> It's not necessarily genetic, but it seems to be directly tied to ethnicity.A Firebender could never, ever be born to an Earth Kingdom family. With no more Air Nomads, there is no one else to give birth to an Airbender.



I believe that more airbenders will be born as the world itself seeks to restored balance and repair the damage inflicted by the war, as that is a major theme of this story.



Mordin Solus said:


> Although there is a fan theory that Ty Lee has Airbender ancestry -- she has seemingly supernatural acrobatic abilities, and her irises are grey like airbenders (all other Fire Nation characters have golden yellow irises)



That does seem to be an interesting theory, except that Ta Min and Mai also have gray eyes instead of the usual gold of people from the Fire Nation, and neither of them seems to have incredible acrobatic abilities (actually, Mai does have such ability, but her personality is very different from that of a typical airbender).


----------



## Wan (May 18, 2011)

Mai doesn't have grey eyes.



But you're right, Ta Min does.


----------



## Noah (May 18, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> (actually, Mai does have such ability, but her personality is very different from that of a typical airbender).



Unless it's some sort of chemical imbalance, genetics have no effect on someone's personality. Especially as far removed as she would be from the airbenders. How is that even a point worth noting?


----------



## Storywriter (May 18, 2011)

i have seen the whole serie and i really hate it that my couple didn`t get together *cry* but i did like the ending


----------



## Burke (May 18, 2011)

In regards to the previous conversation on bending and genetics, all i have to say is that it has been said before, by the creators no less, that bending ability has nothing to do with genetics. I know that that has been stated before, but it goes further. Meaning that even if no airbemder exists in the world, there will still always be people with the hidden skill of being able to airbend. The only problem is that there would be no people to teach them. I would not doubt that tenzin or aang took it upon themselves to teach those with potential airbending.


----------



## Wan (May 18, 2011)

The creators have said that there is a genetic factor, but it's not only genetics.


----------



## Burke (May 18, 2011)

anyone anywhere at any time regardless of ancestry can become a bender of any element, most are just unaware until they are taught to bring it forth.


----------



## Wan (May 18, 2011)

No.  Source?


----------



## Burke (May 18, 2011)

Yes, it was in an interview that bryke did, but ill have to wait till jove gets back, he'll know the one.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 18, 2011)

I remember the interview. I'm pretty sure that's not what they meant.




> *RM:* Okay, next I know I'm going really left brained and you can call me a geek because I am, but in "The Fortuneteller" you have a pair of twins...kids...one is an earthbender and one isn't. So is bending genetic, or is it some sort of spiritual thing? How does it work?
> 
> *BK:* Mike and I just got new puppies. They're brothers. They have the same mother and father. Same litter. Mike's dog can just sit in a crate and be happy as a clam. My dog just loses all control...everything. Who knows why these things happen? They're beyond our full understanding.
> 
> ...





There's quite a few interviews here, actually:


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 18, 2011)

This comes up quite a bit, so I've compiled a short list of important interviews with Avatar personnel:



The first place you need to go is ASN:




During the latter half of Book 2 (ASN's peak) and the hiatus before Book 3, they conducted interviews with:


*Mike and Bryan (April 2007)*
*Director Giancarlo Volpe (June 2006)*
*The Track Team (July/August 2006)*
*Sifu Kisu (October 2006)*
*Voice Director Andrea Roman (May 2007)*
*Jessie Flower (Toph) (December 2006/January 2007)*
*Crawford Wilson (Jet) (November 2006)*
*Johanna Braddy (Yue) (November/December 2006)*


_The interview with Mike and Bryan is the most in-depth, fan-centric interview in existence.Obviously, being conducted in early 2007 it doesn't address a lot of issues that arose due to Book 3, but it touches upon just about all the major questions of mythology and internal logic. This interview is out main source, as fans, for the workings of the Avatar World._



*Animation Insider Interview with Mike and Bryan, In depth from 2005*: 

_This interview goes fully into detail about the creation of the show and Bryke's inspirations/conceits at the beginning of the series. Long, but fascinating._



*Toonzone Interview at NYCC 2008*: rest of the album can be found here

_This interview is comparable to the ASN interview, with remarkably insightful and incisive questions by Ed Lui, TZ's resident Avatarling and one of the critical forces supporting the show._



*Toonzone Interview with Director Joaquim dos Santos*: rest of the album can be found here



*Soundtrack.net Interview of The Track Team*: 

_Contains a number of mp3 snippets from the show. If you'd like a full collection of Track Team Avatar compositions on the web, a sort of guerilla OST, PM me._




*Scan of Interview with M&B sometime in 2006*: 







*Sozin's Comet (Book) Interview Scans*:

rest of the album can be found here




*ATLAO Jeremy Zukerman (Track Team composer) interview*: 



*Tor.com Interview with Mike and Bryan, July 2010*: Tor have got a tribute to Sladen up on their website.



*Wall Street Journal Interview with Mike & Bryan, July 2010*: 



*Wall Street Journal Interview with Mike & Bryan, March 2011*: 

_This is the interview you want if you're unaware of any recent Korra developments, or are just now finding out about Korra._


----------



## Burke (May 18, 2011)

Jove said:


> I remember the interview. I'm pretty sure that's not what they meant.



well in the opinion of jove, what did you get from it?


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 18, 2011)

N??ps said:


> anyone anywhere at any time regardless of ancestry can become a bender of any element, most are just unaware until they are taught to bring it forth.





N??ps said:


> well in the opinion of jove, what did you get from it?



That bending is partially based on genetics, and that if you are born with bending potential it's possible that you could either reach your potential, exceed it, or never unlock it at all. And that bending is not purely based on genetics, so there is some randomness to it, but whether someone has potential to be a bender is a delicate interplay of the two.


I didn't interpret it to be as random as you put it, at least not in what element people bend. I don't think a random Water Tribe child would randomly acquire the ability to Airbend, for instance.

In the A:tLA universe, I believe it's delineated clearly; miscegenation (nation-wise) seems rare in that time period of Avatar. With Korra and beyond, it's more relevant, but in Aang's time, it seems almost impossible that nyone would bend an element outside their particular Nation's.


----------



## Wan (May 19, 2011)

Thanks for the sources, Jove...bit of an overload, really, but good to have all that in one place!  So it's what I thought -- some genetic influence, but with other factors, such as spiritual factors.  No ground to make a claim like "anyone anywhere at any time regardless of ancestry can become a bender of any element."  If that were the case, we would see at least a few firebenders born in the middle of the Earth kingdom.  And the extinction of the Air Nomads wouldn't be such a big deal.

I do think that there may be concealed Air Nomad ancestry amongst the people of the Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom that could lead to the rebirth of the Air Nomads.  Or Aang might use energybending on those he finds worthy to become airbenders.  But maybe that's just wishful thinking.


----------



## Shade (May 19, 2011)

Hey Jove, the links you put on the first page of this thread and the other two threads are broken because of the URL change.


----------



## Burke (May 19, 2011)

A quick pencil drawing.

NOT THE HEAD IS NOT SMALL SHES JUST LOOKING DOWN A BIT 

someone buy me photoshop so i can make decent stuff


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 19, 2011)

Shade said:


> Hey Jove, the links you put on the first page of this thread and the other two threads are broken because of the URL change.



I fixed them, and I also want to let everyone know:

When the time comes, as we reach 500 pages/10,000 posts, we need to make the new thread before that threshold is reached. I do _not_ want Tazmo making the thread. Even if I'm not around, just make it.


----------



## Burke (May 19, 2011)

who's tazmo ?

NEVERMIND


----------



## Shiranui (May 19, 2011)

If you were cast into the world of _Avatar_, which element would you want to be endowed with? (a fairly generic question, I know. Forgive me)


----------



## Burke (May 19, 2011)

Shiranui said:


> If you were cast into the world of _Avatar_, which element would you want to be endowed with? (a fairly generic question, I know. Forgive me)



forgiven





















aaaaaaand forgotten


----------



## Shiranui (May 19, 2011)

How generous of you.


----------



## Jena (May 19, 2011)

Shiranui said:


> If you were cast into the world of _Avatar_, which element would you want to be endowed with? (a fairly generic question, I know. Forgive me)



Generic, but alright.
Water.


----------



## Glued (May 19, 2011)

Shiranui said:


> If you were cast into the world of _Avatar_, which element would you want to be endowed with? (a fairly generic question, I know. Forgive me)



BENJAMIN GRIMM...I mean earth.


----------



## Burke (May 19, 2011)

Earth of course


----------



## Time Expired (May 19, 2011)

Shiranui said:


> If you were cast into the world of _Avatar_, which element would you want to be endowed with? (a fairly generic question, I know. Forgive me)



Energy - old school Lion Turtle style bending 




Outside of this (which is not an element) I can't decide


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 19, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Mai doesn't have grey eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> But you're right, Ta Min does.



I forgot that Mai has gold eyes, as she always has them narrowed, nearly closed, so it was difficult to notice their color.



Noah said:


> Unless it's some sort of chemical imbalance, genetics have no effect on someone's personality. Especially as far removed as she would be from the airbenders. How is that even a point worth noting?



Yes, I believe absolutely that genetics do not influence a person's personality, because I believe that human intelligence is stronger than instinct or biology. I even made a major point of that in a thread some time ago (I cannot recall the exact thread, but I do recall that I was adamant in expressing my belief).



N??ps said:


> anyone anywhere at any time regardless of ancestry can become a bender of any element, most are just unaware until they are taught to bring it forth.



Yes, from what I observed that does seem to be the case, plus it would be only fair for that to be how bending works, otherwise there would be no way that someone from a certain nation could have the ability to bend an element different from that of their nation.



Shiranui said:


> If you were cast into the world of _Avatar_, which element would you want to be endowed with? (a fairly generic question, I know. Forgive me)



I would wish to have the ability to bend fire, as I like how fire is very powerful and visually-impressive, plus, because it is so dangerous, it requires very precise control to wield properly, and I would like to prove that I have such control and precision.


----------



## Wan (May 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, from what I observed that does seem to be the case, plus it would be only fair for that to be how bending works, otherwise there would be no way that someone from a certain nation could have the ability to bend an element different from that of their nation.



Wow.  Obvious tautology is obvious.  (And we just had this discussion, and it is _not_ the case)


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (May 19, 2011)

Shiranui said:


> If you were cast into the world of _Avatar_, which element would you want to be endowed with? (a fairly generic question, I know. Forgive me)


I would want Air but I fit more with Water or Earth.


----------



## Time Expired (May 19, 2011)

Prolly Earth, but I'd want to try them all just to find out fo sho


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 19, 2011)

Earthbending, because it's extremely practical


----------



## Wan (May 20, 2011)

Interesting...DDJ, you might be interested in this too.  You were wondering how the Fire Nation could have entirely wiped out the Air Nomads with no survivors.  Well, according to the new comic book "Relics" (I haven't read it yet, but it's detailed on the Avatar Wiki: ) there _were_ survivors from the initial Fire Nation attack on the air temples.  These survivors sought refuge in the Earth Kingdom, but the Fire Nation built caves filled with Air Nomad relics and spread rumors that Air Nomads could find refuge there.  In reality, it was all a trap by the Fire Nation, and they killed any Air Nomad that came into the caves.


----------



## Shiranui (May 20, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> BENJAMIN GRIMM...I mean earth.





N??ps said:


> Earth of course





ReikaiDemon said:


> Earthbending, because it's extremely practical



As I'm sure you all have done, I've always wondered why some Earthbenders insisted upon attacking with a simple boulder. They can do far better!



Jena said:


> Generic, but alright.
> Water.





Shaidar Haran said:


> I would want Air but I fit more with Water or Earth.



Water would be my choice. Hama's terrifying display of sorcery inspired some fantastic (but sinister) daydreams.


----------



## Burke (May 20, 2011)

How i feel more or less
Rules of the Ponynet


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 20, 2011)

Shiranui said:


> As I'm sure you all have done, I've always wondered why some Earthbenders insisted upon attacking with a simple boulder. They can do far better!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fight? Goodness no! That is against my sensibilities, you can build cities with Earthbending, cheap homes for all. Any place with dirt or stone, you can make a house in seconds.


----------



## Shiranui (May 20, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Fight? Goodness no! That is against my sensibilities, you can build cities with Earthbending, cheap homes for all. Any place with dirt or stone, you can make a house in seconds.



My barbaric nature led me to believe that you chose Earth for combat! Perhaps I need to evaluate my priorities.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 20, 2011)

I'd totally be an Airbender. Defensive-minded and has travel advantages.


Oh, and RIP to Randy Savage. No one in real-life ever embodied the spirit of Firebending more.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 20, 2011)

So, what element would some real life people, most likely, celebrities, would bend?


----------



## Glued (May 20, 2011)

Shiranui said:


> As I'm sure you all have done, I've always wondered why some Earthbenders insisted upon attacking with a simple boulder. They can do far better!



I picked Earth because it represents my favorite fictional character since I was 7 years of age.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 21, 2011)

Rocky?

It's Rocky isn't it?


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 21, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Rocky?
> 
> It's Rocky isn't it?


Swamp Thing?


----------



## Koi (May 21, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Interesting...DDJ, you might be interested in this too.  You were wondering how the Fire Nation could have entirely wiped out the Air Nomads with no survivors.  Well, according to the new comic book "Relics" (I haven't read it yet, but it's detailed on the Avatar Wiki: ) there _were_ survivors from the initial Fire Nation attack on the air temples.  These survivors sought refuge in the Earth Kingdom, but the Fire Nation built caves filled with Air Nomad relics and spread rumors that Air Nomads could find refuge there.  In reality, it was all a trap by the Fire Nation, and they killed any Air Nomad that came into the caves.



Good god damn that is HORRIBLE.  That's like.. straight out of Nazi death camps horrible.  But I still can't wait for the comics.


----------



## Jena (May 21, 2011)

Koi said:


> Good god damn that is HORRIBLE.  That's like.. straight out of Nazi death camps horrible.  But I still can't wait for the comics.



You can read that one  (scroll down).


----------



## Glued (May 21, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Swamp Thing?



No its not Swamp Thing, but +rep for knowing who Swamp Thing is. Mad Respect.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Rocky?
> 
> It's Rocky isn't it?



No its not Rocky, but good guess.

Earth really is the most versatile of the elements though. You can manipulate sand, crystals, boulders, metal. You can make yourself armor like Toph. You can even use it to sense the world around you. You can even bend by moving your facial muscle like King Bumi.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 22, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Interesting...DDJ, you might be interested in this too.  You were wondering how the Fire Nation could have entirely wiped out the Air Nomads with no survivors.  Well, according to the new comic book "Relics" (I haven't read it yet, but it's detailed on the Avatar Wiki: ) there _were_ survivors from the initial Fire Nation attack on the air temples.  These survivors sought refuge in the Earth Kingdom, but the Fire Nation built caves filled with Air Nomad relics and spread rumors that Air Nomads could find refuge there.  In reality, it was all a trap by the Fire Nation, and they killed any Air Nomad that came into the caves.



Yes, I did read that comic, and I found it to be very unfortunate and cruel that that the story writers could lead both Aang and the audience into believing that other Airbenders could have survived, only to crush those hopes. Why must they do that?

Also, on that subject, why kill all the airbenders simply because the new Avatar was one of them? Is that not very excessive and needlessly violent? And why bother seeking to kill the next Avatar at all, when they would be reborn _again_ after that?

To make the subject less serious, I recall the scene where Katara found a portrait of Ozai as an infant, believing it to be Zuko, and when she learned who the image actually depicted, she could not believe that Ozai had ever been happy, even as a child. I really wish that the entire group had found a portrait of Ursa, which would have allowed Sokka or Aang to comment on how attractive Ursa was (i.e., "your mother is quite a looker, Zuko,"), and possibly eliciting an interesting reaction from Zuko. Would anyone else here liked to have seen such an occurrence in the series?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 22, 2011)

So, this guy (Mark) has a website (on the internet of all places) were he watches shows, spoiler free and without any previous knowledge of the show, and does an episode by episode review (one a day) as he watches them.

He recently started in on Avatar (he just started season 2), and so far he abso-fucking-lutly loves it.



			
				from his most recent review of "Return to Omashu" said:
			
		

> ...But there’s a part of me that thinks it might be fun on an intellectual level to try another series I’m bound to dislike, if only because I am in fear of repeating myself or becoming stale to all of you who choose to read my writing. This episode sparked that desire in me again, but not for the reason I think you would consider.
> 
> I cannot find anything to hate this show for. And while watching “Return to Omashu,” I honestly could not believe how ridiculously invested in these characters I am after like…A MONTH. A MONTH! On top of all this, I’m entertained on an emotional level, a mental level, and a purely superficial level.
> 
> I cannot find a reason to dislike this. And I am trying, but nothing is even something I could come up with if I stretch logic to its extreme or read subtle subtexts that no one else sees. I can’t!



I really really like reading his reviews because it so much reminds me of what it was like my first time seeing this show. A big part of the fun as well is reading all his speculations, predictions and hopes about what will and won't happen.

Link removed

And just a warning. If you're going to post comments on his site: NO SPOILERS!


----------



## Jena (May 22, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, on that subject, why kill all the airbenders simply because the new Avatar was one of them? Is that not very excessive and needlessly violent? And why bother seeking to kill the next Avatar at all, when they would be reborn _again_ after that?


I guess they just wanted the Avatar out of the way until the fire nation was stronger and had more control. 



> To make the subject less serious, I recall the scene where Katara found a portrait of Ozai as an infant, believing it to be Zuko, and when she learned who the image actually depicted, she could not believe that Ozai had ever been happy, even as a child.


I really liked that moment. I don't really have time right now to dive into all the implications and what-not of it, but it was another place where the show "blurred the line". 
Yeah....I can word it in my head but not write it so that it makes sense. Whatever. 



> I really wish that the entire group had found a portrait of Ursa, which would have allowed Sokka or Aang to comment on how attractive Ursa was (i.e., "your mother is quite a looker, Zuko,"), and possibly eliciting an interesting reaction from Zuko. Would anyone else here liked to have seen such an occurrence in the series?


To be honest, no.
It would've been a little weird.
If they _only_ had that, or _only_ had Katara discover the firelord's portrait, that would've been fine. To do both would've been, frankly, dumb.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 22, 2011)

Jena said:


> To be honest, no.
> It would've been a little weird.
> If they _only_ had that, or _only_ had Katara discover the firelord's portrait, that would've been fine. To do both would've been, frankly, dumb.



Yes, that scene was more important to the plot, so I can understand why it was done in the series. I am certain that there is no shortage of fan-fiction that somehow involves the younger male charatcers of the series commenting on Ursa's physical appearance.


----------



## Wan (May 22, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, on that subject, why kill all the airbenders simply because the new Avatar was one of them? Is that not very excessive and needlessly violent? And why bother seeking to kill the next Avatar at all, when they would be reborn _again_ after that?



Fire Lord Sozin realized that the Avatar could be a threat even at the young age of 12 -- and indeed, no more than a year after Aang awoke from the iceberg he defeated Fire Lord Ozai.  A baby Water Tribe avatar would be much less of a immediate threat, and even once grown up his or her potential threat level would be lower since he or she would not be able to learn airbending.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> So, this guy (Mark) has a website (on the internet of all places) were he watches shows, spoiler free and without any previous knowledge of the show, and does an episode by episode review (one a day) as he watches them.
> 
> He recently started in on Avatar (he just started season 2), and so far he abso-fucking-lutly loves it.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I've been following Mark's episode-by-episode reviews.  It's quite entertaining to read his reactions to the awesome parts from each episode, and get his in-depth viewpoint on it.  Although he does seem to like CAPS LOCK a bit too much.


----------



## Pseudo (May 22, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Fire Lord Sozin realized that the Avatar could be a threat even at the young age of 12 -- and indeed, no more than a year after Aang awoke from the iceberg he defeated Fire Lord Ozai.  *A baby Water Tribe avatar would be much less of a immediate threat, and even once grown up his or her potential threat level would be lower since he or she would not be able to learn airbending.*



So how is this new Avatar going to learn airbending?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 22, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> So how is this new Avatar going to learn airbending?



From Aang's son, Tenzin, who is also an airbender, and hopefully, a very skilled airbender.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 22, 2011)

That's one of the things I'm really excited about. I wonder how Tenzin fits into the new Avatar World. Being the son of Aang and Katara, and possibly the only living Airbender, he's possibly more of a celebrity than Korra.


----------



## Mider T (May 22, 2011)

World doesn't seem too keen on benders this time around.


----------



## Lebron Flocka James (May 22, 2011)

Can someone give me the link to the info on the new show.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 22, 2011)




----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 22, 2011)

Mider T said:


> World doesn't seem too keen on benders this time around.



Hopefully, the people who dislike benders may change their minds by the end of the series and realize that not all benders are evil or destructive, that some are actually very beneficial to society, and not oppose bending of any type.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 23, 2011)

It could just be a small cult within Republic City.


----------



## Gunners (May 23, 2011)

> Also, on that subject, why kill all the airbenders simply because the new Avatar was one of them? Is that not very excessive and needlessly violent? And why bother seeking to kill the next Avatar at all, when they would be reborn again after that?


Even if the Avatar was reborn the process would be delayed giving them enough time to gain a strong foothold. The violence was excessive but ultimately it shifted the balance in their favour which is what they were after. 

That being said what you brought up reminds me of Zhao's conversation with Aang where he said he would keep him alive 'but just barely'. An overlooked villain.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 23, 2011)

Whether the benders are evil or not are irrelevant, it's a valid fear, benders really do have a very high seat in society, and they are in charge of a lot of stuff. 

It only takes one bender to do something bad that could affect a massive amount of people, intentional or not. 

And that's not taking into account how outclassed non-benders are in the midst of benders. There are little job opportunities for a mason in Earth Kingdom cities, given how an Earthbender of moderate skill can make a building in a snap. In a military nation such as the Firenation, Firebenders clearly are put first in society for their abilities, not only for their fighting ability, but in industry as well.

And the world just suffered a century long war all for the sake of benders, how would you feel if you were a non-bender who had to fight a war for benders, or were affected by a war that isn't relevant to you?


----------



## Wan (May 23, 2011)

Gunners said:


> That being said what you brought up reminds me of Zhao's conversation with Aang where he said he would keep him alive 'but just barely'. An overlooked villain.



If he'd gone all the way with that, he should have cut Aang's limbs off and had him spoon-fed for the rest of his life.  But that would be much too grimdark for a kid's show, even Avatar.


----------



## Jena (May 23, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> If he'd gone all the way with that, he should have cut Aang's limbs off and had him spoon-fed for the rest of his life.  But that would be much too grimdark for a kid's show, even Avatar.


Something tells me Nickelodeon would've had a few problems with that.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 23, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Whether the benders are evil or not are irrelevant, it's a valid fear, benders really do have a very high seat in society, and they are in charge of a lot of stuff.
> 
> It only takes one bender to do something bad that could affect a massive amount of people, intentional or not.
> 
> ...



You make good points, Reikai Demon, but I still must disagree with you. A person in the series cannot judge all benders by the actions of a few. This is an irrational "mob mentality;" if the people were to simply take a moment to deliberate the situation, they would realize that benders are humans as well and need to be evaluated on an individual basis, not as a group.

I hope that most people in the series will be rational on this subject and not panic, as common bystanders are so often inclined to do in both actuality and fictional stories, although I suspect that that shall not be the case, for the purposes of drama and tension. I know that if I were a non-bender in this series' universe, I would be rational and open-minded on this subject and treat benders with the same respect and kindness that I would give to normal people. If I were a bender, I would be very polite and respectful to all people to show that not all benders are evil.

As for your statement about "being affected by a war that is not relevant to you," that is a truth about all wars, in both fiction and actuality. There have been many civilians in all nations of our world who have been affected by wars, despite them not being directly involved in the wars, so the war from _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ is nothing special in that regard.


----------



## Glued (May 23, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> You make good points, Reikai Demon, but I still must disagree with you. A person in the series cannot judge all benders by the actions of a few. .



Yes I can judge Benders by the action of a few. Maybe not their opinions or traits, but I can judge what type of power they have. I can judge that they have abilities I do not and that they have an edge in life. I can judge that my own children will not have the same edge in life as the children of Benders.

"Superior ability breeds superior ambition." -Spock.



> This is an irrational "mob mentality;" if the people were to simply take a moment to deliberate the situation, they would realize that benders are humans as well and need to be evaluated on an individual basis, not as a group.



Debatable. Benders are capable of feats normal humans cannot. They are in essence Superhuman, Supermen. They're better than us. We can't bend, they can. Its that simple. Therefore they are different. In Harry Potter, we normal humans were downgraded to the level of "Muggles."



> I hope that most people in the series will be rational on this subject and not panic, as common bystanders are so often inclined to do in both actuality and fictional stories, although I suspect that that shall not be the case, for the purposes of drama and tension. I know that if I were a non-bender in this series' universe, I would be rational and open-minded on this subject and treat benders with the same respect and kindness that I would give to normal people. If I were a bender, I would be very polite and respectful to all people to show that not all benders are evil.



You don't know what type of person you would be like. To assume that you would be rational and open-minded is a very presumptous. Imagine that your parents were harmed by benders. Imagine if your world was turned upside down by benders. Imagine that you wanted a job, and you didn't get it because a bender got it. Toph could make a sculpture in a second that would take a professional artist years. Look at Nazi Germany, all it took was 5 years of depression and a charismatic leader who pulled them out of said depression to turn them against Jews as a whole. Many of us like to pretend that we would be like Schindler, who tried to protect the jews, but in reality majority of us would simply follow along.

Unless you believe that you were BORN with a certain disposition to being open-minded. You are a subject to your environment.


----------



## Jena (May 23, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, Ben Grimm, I am _absolutely certain_ that if a member of a certain group (benders, in this case) wronged me somehow, I would _not_ judge all members of that group by the actions of that one member; I am _that_ open-minded.


Good for you.
I'd also like to point out that it's easy to sit on the outside and say you wouldn't do something without ever having actually experienced it. 
So unless you've lived through something comprable, you don't know.



> Second, some people simply have different capabilities than others; there are some people who are stronger, faster, or smarter than others, and the other people must either become better themselves or learn to live accept that the other people are better than themselves.


It is different though. It's like another _class_ of people who are super-powered and who are actively involved in every aspect of life.




> so I sincerely hope that you and Reikai Demon are not seriously suggesting that they (the anti-benders) are actually justified in their beliefs and that they should be allowed to discriminate against benders.


I don't think anyone is saying that. They're just pointing out the motivation behind it and how you can _understand_ why the anti-bender movement would take root.



> In a similar idea, until I learn more about the anti-benders, I believe that they are zealots who act upon emotion rather than reason and are also close-minded and discriminatory, as such people in actuality so often are.


Which is true, but what happens in real life is that the masses look for someone to blame their problems on. That doesn't mean that they can't have reasons behind their discrimination. However stupid those reason may be.



> Plus, there is one more very important fact that I must mention: most of the protagonists of the franchise are benders themselves, so the audience is expected to perceive the story, and thus, the anti-benders, from the perspective of the protagonists. Therefore, if the heroes view the anti-benders as being evil or adversaries, so shall I, a member of the audience.


Which is what you're supposed to do. 
People were just discussing the possible rationale beside the anti-bending movement. It's important to know an enemy as well as an ally. (Ugh, I didn't mean that to sound like some metaphysical bullshit.)


----------



## Glued (May 23, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, Ben Grimm, I am _absolutely certain_ that if a member of a certain group (benders, in this case) wronged me somehow, I would _not_ judge all members of that group by the actions of that one member; I am _that_ open-minded.
> 
> .



LOL, except you don't live in the Avatar universe. You were raised in certain environment that sculpted who you are. Its really not that hard to turn people in your favor, read Orwell's 1984.




> Second, some people simply have different capabilities than others; there are some people who are stronger, faster, or smarter than others, and the other people must either become better themselves or learn to live accept that the other people are better than themselves. Michael Phelps is a better athlete than am I; Steven Hawking is smarter than myself; and Bill Gates is a better businessperson than me and has far more money than I likely will ever have, and while I do on occasion envy these people for the abilities and accomplishments, I have never wished any harm upon them nor desired to prevent them from using their abilities, which is what the anti-benders in the new _Avatar_ series apparently wish to do, so I sincerely hope that you and Reikai Demon are not seriously suggesting that they (the anti-benders) are actually justified in their beliefs and that they should be allowed to discriminate against benders.



Except the benders have abilities that can actually kill people. This goes beyond mere smarts. Benders have abilities that normal humans cannot even accomplish with hard work. Their abilities allow them to conquer and subjugate others. 

In a realistic environment, I would most certainly be worried about the safety of non-benders.



> What if someone suggested that the Nazis were completely justified in discriminating against Jews, Gypsies, Africans, and other non-WASPs? What if someone suggested that the various equal rights movements of the 1960's and 1970's were wrong and should never have occurred? To use another fictional example, what if a superhuman in Marvel Comics supported the adoption of the Superhuman Registration Act? Tony Stark and Peter Parker did, and many other superhumans, most notably Steve Rogers, did not at all like that decision. In a similar idea, until I learn more about the anti-benders, I believe that they are zealots who act upon emotion rather than reason and are also close-minded and discriminatory, as such people in actuality so often are.



Except Jews, Gypsies, Africans and non-Wasps don't have the ability to wipe out entire fleets of ships such as in the northern siege when Aang bonded with the Ocean Spirit. They can't cut through tanks like Master Pakku. They can't fire lightning from their hands. They can't defeat an entire army like King Bumi and hurl houses at their opponents.

Perhaps they are close-minded zealots who merely hate. I'm hoping for a Machiavellan type villain like Lex Luthor, who sees the greatest accomplishments of man outshined by something other.



> Plus, there is one more very important fact that I must mention: most of the protagonists of the franchise are benders themselves, so the audience is expected to perceive the story, and thus, the anti-benders, from the perspective of the protagonists. Therefore, if the heroes view the anti-benders as being evil or adversaries, so shall I, a member of the audience



A pity really, I rather hope for some shades of grey. However puritanical zealots can sometimes be very interesting villains, Warhammer 40k for example.


----------



## hehey (May 24, 2011)

Aang had better have had more than one kid, ...world needs more airbenders.


----------



## Glued (May 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have read that book, and I am certain that I would never be converted to supporting such an utterly evil and tyrannical government as Big Brother. I am an extremely strong-willed individual who always seeks to have his own way in everything; if I do not have my way, I shall give my best effort to convince another person to agree with me. And that usually does not work; I constantly attempt to get my parents to agree with me on certain issues, or to convince my friends to try a different activity in weekends than what they do currently, but I usually have no success in doing so. Therefore, how likely is it that someone will be able to alter my viewpoint on a certain subject about which I have such a strong conviction?
> .



Strong will, you wouldn't even remember the meaning of the word "will." All history of open mindedness will be wiped out. Remember your parents raised you as did your environment. Do you know why vikings pillaged and stole, because their own land was absolutely useless for the growth of crop. A culture of warfare was made, so the only path into Valhalla was a death in battle. 'Strong will' every man has his breaking point. Otherwise you get tortured to the point where you become a drooling vegetable. In a world where ignorance is wisdom and slavery is freedom, you would rise above it all because you have knowledge no one else on the planet can even acquire, because knowledge has been wiped out. You wouldn't know racism was bad because no one ever taught you it was bad. You couldn't cling to your ideals because those ideals wouldn't even exist, so what is the point of strong will.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 24, 2011)

hehey said:


> Aang had better have had more than one kid, ...world needs more airbenders.



Yes, I agree with you there, and I am certain that we shall learn more about that eventually.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 24, 2011)

I think DDJ needs to take a class in sociology.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 24, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I think DDJ needs to take a class in sociology.



I have, as a matter of fact, and I wonder why you mention it in this thread. Why do you say such a thing?


----------



## Jena (May 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have, as a matter of fact, and I wonder why you mention it in this thread. Why do you say such a thing?



Because of your naive optimism regarding totalitarian situations, I'm guessing.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 24, 2011)

Jena said:


> Because of your naive optimism regarding totalitarian situations, I'm guessing.



I am optimistic about everything in life; that is how I live every day and never fall into despair. Very little can ever cause me to be depressed for a significant duration, as I always recover and focus on the positive aspects on my life.

Please do not ever call me "naive;" I know perfectly well that not all people will be rational in certain situations, but I do not allow that to dampen my enthusiasm or my efforts to promote equality and understanding.


----------



## Burke (May 24, 2011)

DDJ, beacon of optimism, im buyin it.


----------



## Noah (May 24, 2011)

Beacon of optimism, or a goddamn cartoon character?


----------



## Narcissus (May 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> master manipulators as Light Yagami, *Sosuke Aizen*, Emperor Palpatine, or David Xanatos.



One of these things is not like the other, and one of these things just doesn't belong.

But this entire little argument has been keeping me highly entertained.

Please everyone, carry on.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 24, 2011)

Speaking of folks reviewing Avatar (we were still speaking about that right? cause that was what my last post was about, and my posts are the only ones I pay attention to, so I'll just assume that we were), 



> Beginning May 31 as well will be Hayden Childs’ revisit of the animated series Avatar: The Last Airbender, a show that may seem like a simple kids cartoon at first blush but one that boasts a surprisingly complex and deep mythology. These reviews will post at 2 p.m.


----------



## Burke (May 24, 2011)

Welp, we know how Jove time will be occupied for a while 

It cant get any bette-



> Beginning June 4 at 2 p.m. every Saturday, Simon Abrams takes you into outer space and also possibly the wild, wild west with Cowboy Bebop.



... FREE AT LAST FREE AT LAST GREAT GOD ALMIGHTY WERE FREE AT LAST


----------



## DemonDragonJ (May 24, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> One of these things is not like the other, and one of these things just doesn't belong.



How is Aizen not a master manipulator, as are the others whom I mentioned? Have you not read _Bleach?_


----------



## Glued (May 25, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How is Aizen not a master manipulator, as are the others whom I mentioned? Have you not read _Bleach?_



Aizen's manipulations sound like asspulls.

There is no goddamn way that he could have manipulated events so that Ichigo would run into Kenpachi. Ichigo and his friends all landed randomly. He could have just as easily ended up facing Mayuri instead.

There is a difference between show and tell. Sherlock homes has been shown to be a better detective than Batman. Although many batman writers try to argue that Batman is better, if you read Sherlock Holmes, you will understand that Holmes is genuinely written as a better detective. No matter how hard Grant Morrison tries to make us believe otherwise. Batman is a great detective, but I have never seen any proof that he is above Sherlock.

Another example would be Admiral Thrawn, who predicted Leia would be hiding on Kashyyk simply because Chewbacca was a member of the crew.  I was face palming so hard. Leia could have been hiding anywhere in the entire Republic and he guessed her location just because Chewbacca was part of the crew. 

Another time I was reading Fantastic Four. The "Editor" apparently retconned all of Doom's defeats to either being Doombots or Kristoff. I looked at that comic and said bullshit. One of the most stupidest cop-outs in Marvel is whenever someone beats Doom, they find out later it was a Doombot. Hell I once read a fight where Doom and Reed were fighting through moments in time. When Doom lost it was revealed, it was Kristoff in Doom's place. I say bullshit. When the fuck did Doom and Kristoff switch places.

A lot of times Authors try to create characters smarter than themselves, but end up failing. Kishimoto says Shikamaru has a huge IQ. All he did was lead Hidan to a hole.

Now a great manipulator was Iago from Shakespeare's Othello. Shakespeare showed how Iago manipulated everyone in the series.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 25, 2011)

I nominate Ben Grimm for...Well, whatever awesome position this thread needs for him


----------



## Burke (May 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Aizen's manipulations sound like asspulls.
> 
> There is no goddamn way that he could have manipulated events so that Ichigo would run into Kenpachi. Ichigo and his friends all landed randomly. He could have just as easily ended up facing Mayuri instead.
> 
> ...



A perfect argument.
Except

Kashyyyk has three y's.
LOLWHYDOIKNOWTHIS


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 30, 2011)

Come on dammit. Not page 2. 


Alright, fanart:


A blatantly Caucasian Katara:


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 30, 2011)

Is that Megan Fox?


----------



## Jena (May 30, 2011)

I like it, but would be better if it wasn't, like you said, blatantly caucasian.


ReikaiDemon said:


> Is that Megan Fox?




I miss Avatar. 
I was just thinking about it the other day. My brother, my friend, her sister, and I would all get together and crowd around the TV (or computer). And we would make popcorn and then fangirl every twelve seconds. Those were good times.

Korra needs to come out soon, damn it! There's nothing left on TV to distract myself in the meantime.


----------



## Buskuv (May 30, 2011)

White people!


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 30, 2011)

Short people!


----------



## Glued (May 30, 2011)

Dean Cain's Japanese heritage says hello



Black Luthor doesn't mind either



Is that Heimdall, Whitest God in all of Asgard?


----------



## Koi (May 30, 2011)

>No hair loopies

Definitely not Katara.


----------



## Time Expired (May 30, 2011)

Jove said:


> Come on dammit. Not page 2.
> 
> 
> Alright, fanart:
> ...



 Euro-Katara...I think I'm picking up a little Kristen Stewart in the face.

Edit: This aside - it's really good work.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (May 30, 2011)

Jove said:


> Come on dammit. Not page 2.
> 
> 
> Alright, fanart:
> ...



Why do I have the distinct feeling that if I went to that's artists page, I'd find out she looks suspiciously like her version of Katara.


----------



## Ms. Jove (May 30, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Why do I have the distinct feeling that if I went to that's artists page, I'd find out she looks suspiciously like her version of Katara.



Her Swedishness is a coincidence.


----------



## Burke (May 30, 2011)

Personally, i loved Heimdall in the movie, and i prefer black luthor, i like him best, but Cain was part of the worst thing with superman in its name since superman 4, so no, he CANT be superman, or, a good one at that. Regardless, i always saw aang as white, but ringer was not the best aang... too pudgy and not enough acting experience.

And M night, pay attention to hollywood, you ALWAYS get an actor older than their part. The exception being Aangs VA in the show


----------



## Superstarseven (May 30, 2011)

Luthor wasn't a black man in Superman:TAS. Although Kingpin was portrayed as a black man in _MTV's Spider-Man: The New Animated Series_.


----------



## Koi (May 31, 2011)

I thought Heimdall was a fucking boss among bosses in Thor.  I didn't care that he was being played by a black dude, it only mattered that he was being played by one intimidating friend, and that certainly fit.


----------



## Buskuv (May 31, 2011)

In reference to his armor--being the brightest in all of Asgard, you goof.


----------



## VerdantVenus (May 31, 2011)

Nick Fury, but I don't think it really matters, race isn't essential to those kind of roles.


----------



## Burke (May 31, 2011)

i like black nick fury


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 1, 2011)

wtf is going on, are they going to make a sequel to the movie, is that what u guys are talking about? i thought it's a fine enough movie.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 1, 2011)

Nickelodeon is making another animated series to debut this fall; it'll be called _The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra_.

As for a sequel to the movie, I think it's fate is still up in the air.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 1, 2011)

people like to hate on shymalan, i think it's uncalled for.  i can watch _any_ m knight movie at any time and enjoy it.  frankly i would never watch this show, but i would watch the movie by m knight.

the other thing that bothers me is that deb patel is a pretty good actor , it's a shame if he doesn't reprise his role.  also the girl who's his sister in the movie (summer bishil) is super hot, so any time u can see more of her , the better.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 1, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> frankly i would never watch this show,


Then why are you here? 


> people like to hate on shymalan, i think it's uncalled for.


Then you really can't appreciate what M. Night did to the movie.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 1, 2011)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Then why are you here?



derp  





> i would watch the movie by m knight





Shaidar Haran said:


> Then you really can't appreciate what M. Night did to the movie.



yeah, he put a bunch of great talent together, some hot chicks, wrapped it in awesome effects and action...ummm, what else...


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 1, 2011)

And the thread is more about the TV series than the movie. The film technically has its own thread.


NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> he put a bunch of great talent together,


And didn't have them use any of it.


----------



## ElementX (Jun 1, 2011)

Minorities get far less roles than whites, and there are a lot less minority characters in genre fiction. So it's upsetting when they take a character and make him white for no good reason. Changing a white character's race may be annoying to some, but at least it's increasing diversity and giving more play to an underrepresented group. Yes, it's a double standard, but not a bad one.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 1, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> people like to hate on shymalan, i think it's uncalled for.  i can watch _any_ m *knight* movie at any time and enjoy it.  frankly i would never watch this show, but i would watch the movie by m *knight*
> 
> the other thing that bothers me is that deb patel is a pretty good actor , it's a shame if he doesn't reprise his role.  also the girl who's his sister in the movie (summer bishil) is super hot, so any time u can see more of her , the better.


----------



## Bazu'aal (Jun 1, 2011)

So any new details on the Korra series?
and if there is a FC for this series then I request joinage!


----------



## Piekage (Jun 1, 2011)

Don't know it it's been posted, but here's some Avatar reviews.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 1, 2011)

*sigh* If you didn't know what the original series was like, why would you say the movie is better? -_-


----------



## Narcissus (Jun 1, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> derp
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, he put a bunch of great talent together, some hot chicks, wrapped it in awesome effects and action...ummm, what else...



Shymalan completely destroyed the story and the characters and spat in the faces of the fans. That abortion of a movie was a disgrace, along with the majority of his films.

Stop the trolling.


----------



## Piekage (Jun 1, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> wtf is going on, are they going to make a sequel to the movie, is that what u guys are talking about?* i thought it's a fine enough movie*.



It's not, .


----------



## Wan (Jun 1, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> people like to hate on shymalan, i think it's uncalled for.  i can watch _any_ m knight movie at any time and enjoy it.  frankly i would never watch this show, but i would watch the movie by m knight.
> 
> the other thing that bothers me is that deb patel is a pretty good actor , it's a shame if he doesn't reprise his role.  also the girl who's his sister in the movie (summer bishil) is super hot, so any time u can see more of her , the better.


----------



## Glued (Jun 2, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> people like to hate on shymalan, i think it's uncalled for.  i can watch _any_ m knight movie at any time and enjoy it.  frankly i would never watch this show, but i would watch the movie by m knight.
> 
> the other thing that bothers me is that deb patel is a pretty good actor , it's a shame if he doesn't reprise his role.  also the girl who's his sister in the movie (summer bishil) is super hot, so any time u can see more of her , the better.



Why do you make me bring out Sinestro?

[YOUTUBE]MNS9MzGOQtU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## NeoKurama (Jun 2, 2011)

When this thread reaches 10k posts, will the title be called,
" Nickelodean's "Avatar: The Last Airbender" Discusion, Book One: Water part 2"?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> *sigh* If you didn't know what the original series was like, why would you say the movie is better? -_-



i don't know the original, but i'm totally cool with just the movie version of the story.  i didn't say it's better, i'm just not gonna get into the animated story. no time or interest.



Narcissus said:


> Shymalan completely destroyed the story and the characters and spat in the faces of the fans. That abortion of a movie was a disgrace, along with the majority of his films.
> 
> Stop the trolling.



well, i don't know about that. as a standalone, i think the movie is fine, if u know the backstory, which i don't , then it could be a problem, but not my problem.



Ben Grimm said:


> Why do you make me bring out Sinestro?
> 
> [YOUTUBE]MNS9MzGOQtU[/YOUTUBE]



nah, i like m night.  i think he's over-shit on.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 2, 2011)

This movie is 94 minutes long, you had time <_<

I think that with the three episodes you could've watched, would've been far more fulfilling than the whole movie.

I think you're trolling too, you're lusting over child actors, and somehow, having sex bait makes a movie worth watching.

How was the movie enjoyable? Did you understand what was going on and why?


----------



## Narcissus (Jun 2, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> well, i don't know about that. as a standalone, i think the movie is fine, if u know the backstory, which i don't , then it could be a problem, but not my problem.



Even without the back story, the movie is awful. It is so sloppy it's not even funny.

Bad dialogue.
Bad acting.
Bad character development.
Bad story telling.

That's just as a standalone. It's only that much worse when you do know the back story, and you realize that they changed the pronunciation of the characters' names, the way in which a firebender bends, the character motives, replace Roku with a dragon, etc, etc, etc.

The movie is terrible.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> This movie is 94 minutes long, you had time <_<
> 
> I think that with the three episodes you could've watched, would've been far more fulfilling than the whole movie.
> 
> ...



lol  child actors, summer bishil makes me lust, chick is 21, smoking hot, not a child.  

I definitely understood what was going on , and i'll explain why in the next sentence...



Narcissus said:


> Even without the back story, the movie is awful. It is so sloppy it's not even funny.
> 
> Bad dialogue.
> Bad acting.
> ...



i understand the things u r saying, and there was some slop and schlock in the movie, but i attributed this to airbender being a movie predominately for kids (hello, nickolodeon).  believe me , i cut movies like alvin and the chipmunks and yogi bear and even tmnt alot of slack bc i know they are meant for dumb kids, not full grown adults.  i don't have a heart attack about characters motives.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 2, 2011)

Says the one who who has a sig that idolizes ass of a cartoon character that is canonically 15

Kids aren't stupid, and it being a "children's movie" doesn't change the fact that as a movie, it's broken all over.

And you're invoking a false comparison here.


----------



## Narcissus (Jun 2, 2011)

I only just noticed this.


DemonDragonJ said:


> How is Aizen not a master manipulator, as are the others whom I mentioned? Have you not read _Bleach?_



Why would you ask if I'd read Bleach if I just made the comment about Aizen not being a "master manipulator?" Clearly I have read it, despite it being some of the worst garbage to ever appear in the genre.

Ben pretty much covered the reasons why Aizen is not some master of manipulation, thankfully saving me the trouble. 


Ben Grimm said:


> Aizen's manipulations sound like asspulls.
> 
> There is no goddamn way that he could have manipulated events so that Ichigo would run into Kenpachi. Ichigo and his friends all landed randomly. He could have just as easily ended up facing Mayuri instead.
> 
> ...



Thank you Ben. I'll have to rep you for this.


NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> i understand the things u r saying, and there was some slop and schlock in the movie, but i attributed this to airbender being a movie predominately for kids (hello, nickolodeon).  believe me , i cut movies like alvin and the chipmunks and yogi bear and even tmnt alot of slack bc i know they are meant for dumb kids, not full grown adults.  i don't have a heart attack about characters motives.



Funny thing about this is that the cartoon was aimed at kids as well, yet it displayed a great use of character development (excluding one particular episode, and I'm sure everyone knows which), dialogue, story telling, and it had real emotional value.

And Avatar is far from the only example. Movie, shows, and cartoons can be aimed at kids and still be well written. Don't misunderstand me, I can enjoy something just for the fun of it, but there is a limit. The Last Airbender went well past that limit by the first 30 minutes.

I didn't expect you to care about the character motives since I listed that under the things the fans would further hate. Had you watched the cartoon though, you would know that Zhao would not have hesitated to kill the Ocean Spirit, that it was his plan and not the Fire Lord's, and that Iroh would've never told Yue to sacrifice herself.


----------



## Time Expired (Jun 2, 2011)

^ great post Narcissus.  Reps. 



NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> people like to hate on shymalan, i think it's uncalled for.  i can watch _any_ m knight movie at any time and enjoy it.  frankly i would never watch this show, but i would watch the movie by m knight.
> 
> the other thing that bothers me is that deb patel is a pretty good actor , it's a shame if he doesn't reprise his role.  also the girl who's his sister in the movie (summer bishil) is super hot, so any time u can see more of her , the better.



Shyamalan has had some interesting ideas but IMO has yet to have any real, lasting success.  He came close to his earlier hit _The Sixth Sense_ with _Signs_, but it fell short and rightfully so.  I think he's still finding himself (and when he does, I expect good things).  It's going to come with difficulty because what he likes to dabble in (magic realism, fate, etc.) has to be approached very subtly.   Having said that I don't think he should have been elected for this project as I don't think it's a good fit.  Actually I'll go as far as saying that it should not have been attempted as live action (so perhaps it's only half his fault that it flopped badly).  

A movie was a great idea, but I think it should have been offered as an animated feature.  I will never see the film.  I don't think it stands to reason that Avatar can make the jump to a live action feature successfully.  The story has a charm all its own, and part of that charm is the medium.  Animation is quite an amazing art; in the right hands it can be impossibly dramatic and amazingly funny.  AtLA is very well balanced in both, but funny is one of the biggest parts of the show that I understand Shyamalan decided to downplay or forsake altogether.  I can appreciate his reasoning because I doubt seriously the show's humor (especially the physical aspects) could be captured.  And the show deserves to be funny - the world deserves a funny Sokka.


----------



## Burke (Jun 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Says the one who who has a sig that idolizes ass of a cartoon character that is canonically 15
> 
> Kids aren't stupid, and it being a "children's movie" doesn't change the fact that as a movie, it's broken all over.
> 
> And you're invoking a false comparison here.



Heynow.
I think hes wrong just as much as you.
But leave Hinata's fine ass out of it 

On a related note, wheres Jove! He needs to douse him in the gasoline of logic.

Or we could get DDJ on him to talk him to death.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 2, 2011)

I disaproove of Doom's disrespect, but yeah, anyone that says "Aizen" as a reference to manipulators deserve to get euthanized


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jun 2, 2011)

Aizen's sole claim to legitimate manipulations is his ability to provoke people like Hitsugaya, who would readily do so at the drop of a hat anyway, into attacking him without thinking.

Also, why are we discussing Aizen again?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 2, 2011)

N??ps said:


> On a related note, wheres Jove! He needs to douse him in the gasoline of logic.



Sorry, I got hit by a tornado. 


PS: Onion AV Club has started to review Avatar.


----------



## Burke (Jun 2, 2011)

Jove said:


> Sorry, I got hit by a tornado.
> 
> 
> PS: Onion AV Club has started to review Avatar.



Today?
Well, Jove, i now decree that it is your sole duty to provide links to these reviews every week for those lazy bitches you call avatar colleagues. I will also expect your thoughts on the review in a well thought out essay.


----------



## Narcissus (Jun 2, 2011)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Aizen's sole claim to legitimate manipulations is his ability to provoke people like Hitsugaya, who would readily do so at the drop of a hat anyway, into attacking him without thinking.
> 
> Also, why are we discussing Aizen again?



Because DDJ tried to claim him to be a masterful manipulator among several others in fiction two pages back.


Jove said:


> Sorry, I got hit by a tornado.



I feel your pain.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 3, 2011)

Jove said:


> Sorry, I got hit by a tornado.
> 
> 
> PS: Onion AV Club has started to review Avatar.



Is The Onion AV club trying to reach a preschool audience? I mean Avatar after all is an "extremely kiddy and immature show". I fail to see why an adult publication would want to review this program.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 3, 2011)

Noops, it's the freakin' Onion


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 3, 2011)

Do you people really not know about Narutosimpson?

Really?


----------



## Glued (Jun 3, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Do you people really not know about Narutosimpson?
> 
> Really?



Why do you think I bought out Sinestro?


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 3, 2011)

narutosimpson is the illest


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 3, 2011)

That was a rather sad attempt at trolling then, if it was trolling.


----------



## Time Expired (Jun 3, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> narutosimpson is the illest



 I still think you like Shamilama...you do, don't you - you trollish troll?  

Admit it


----------



## Burke (Jun 3, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Noops, it's the freakin' Onion



A serious website that has serious content, whats your point


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 3, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> I still think you like Shamilama...you do, don't you - you trollish troll?
> 
> Admit it



i do like shaymalan, i don't even pretend i don't


----------



## Time Expired (Jun 3, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> i do like shaymalan, i don't even pretend i don't



Spoken like a true troll


----------



## Jena (Jun 3, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> i do like shaymalan, i don't even pretend i don't



Even The Happening? 


I still like some of Sham...shayma...shamalo....shmayaanlana's older movies. 6th Sense and Unbreakable are still pretty good.
Actually...Unbreakable is good. I want to watch that movie now...



But the Avatar movie is horrendous. If you saw it while recovering from a lobotomy, I could see how you might enjoy it. Which is fine, but you can't say that it's better than the source material if you've only seen 1 episode of it.


----------



## Burke (Jun 5, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> i do like shaymalan, i don't even pretend i don't



Cmon man.
Lady in the water.
cmon


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 5, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> I disaproove of Doom's disrespect, but yeah, anyone that says "Aizen" as a reference to manipulators deserve to get euthanized



You have every right to state your opinion on this subject, but could you possibly be more polite when doing so? And if Aizen were an actual person, would you tell him that to his face? :ho


----------



## Mider T (Jun 5, 2011)

People don't know about NS?  You guys got to get out of the Theatre some.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 5, 2011)

Mider T said:


> People don't know about NS?  You guys got to get out of the Theatre some.



Forgive me for asking, but what is "NS?"


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 5, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Forgive me for asking, but what is "NS?"



NarutoSimpson, longtime NF rabble-rouser.

He personally confided to me that he's a huge Avatar fan.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 5, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Cmon man.
> Lady in the water.
> cmon



lady in the water was cool, it wasn't his best movie, but it was a weird adventure story that i  enjoyed.

as for m night and his race switching, this is _nothing new_ if you've watched his works, he rarely features minorities/non-whites in significant roles in his movies, disappointingly since he is actually a dark non-white.   but i've learned to expect that from him.


Jove said:


> NarutoSimpson, longtime NF rabble-rouser.
> 
> He personally confided to me that he's a huge Avatar fan.



It's ultimate now


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 5, 2011)

Jove said:


> NarutoSimpson, longtime NF rabble-rouser.
> 
> He personally confided to me that he's a huge Avatar fan.



Yes, I am familiar with NarutoSimpson, and I enjoy his conversations, mostly.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 5, 2011)

Ah yes, as of April 11th NS transcended his former self and become NarutoSimpsonUltimate. He's one of those weirdos that purposefully posts in the Cafe.


----------



## Wan (Jun 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> You have every right to state your opinion on this subject, but could you possibly be more polite when doing so? And if Aizen were an actual person, would you tell him that to his face? :ho



He wouldn't, but I'm absolutely sure he would tell it to Kubo's face.


----------



## MF NaruSimpson (Jun 6, 2011)

Jove said:


> Ah yes, as of April 11th NS transcended his former self and become NarutoSimpsonUltimate. He's one of those weirdos that purposefully posts in the Cafe.



that's the nicest thing anybody's every said about me


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> You have every right to state your opinion on this subject, but could you possibly be more polite when doing so? And if Aizen were an actual person, would you tell him that to his face? :ho


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 6, 2011)

Why do you frequently post that image in response to posts of mine? I believe that that is now the third time that you have done so, and it really is very impolite.

To change the subject, does anyone here wonder if the new series will contain any subtle (or, in some cases, not-so-subtle) suggestive content, as did the original series? I certainly would not at all be bothered if it did.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why do you frequently post that image in response to posts of mine? I believe that that is now the third time that you have done so, and it really is very impolite.


Coincidentally, Tyrion hits Joffery three times as well.


> To change the subject, does anyone here wonder if the new series will contain any subtle (or, in some cases, not-so-subtle) suggestive content, as did the original series? I certainly would not at all be bothered if it did.


Are you on a sexual innuendo kick again?


----------



## Glued (Jun 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> You have every right to state your opinion on this subject, but could you possibly be more polite when doing so? And if Aizen were an actual person, would you tell him that to his face? :ho



I will say this to Aizen, he was able to manipulate lots of people for the simple reason that he can gain control over all senses. Because of a supernatural power, not because of actual skill, cunning and intelligence.


----------



## Koi (Jun 6, 2011)

Yeah, Aizen was a manipulator because of the deus ex machina thing, it turns out, rather than his actual skill.  In his defense he really did have everyone going until he revealed that asspull.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Wang Fire would make the best detective.


----------



## Jena (Jun 6, 2011)

What is this from? It looks really familiar.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jun 6, 2011)

"Game of Thrones" on HBO. Second episode I believe.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 6, 2011)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Coincidentally, Tyrion hits Joffery three times as well.



Please do not _ever_ compare me with Joffrey; he is a cruel and sadistic person who has no compassion for others and demands harsh punishment for even the most minor of offenses. I am very kind, compassionate, and understand that people have differing opinions on certain subjects.



Shaidar Haran said:


> Are you on a sexual innuendo kick again?



Yes, and what is wrong with me doing so? Please do not accuse me of being immature, as many tales and myths from cultures around the world have subtle sexual content, and historic researchers are not accused of being immature for noticing that content. I would like to believe that I am being observant and looking beyond what is immediately apparent by attempt9ing to find subliminal content in this series, or any other fictional series that I follow.

Now, I have answered your question, so could you please answer mine?


----------



## Jena (Jun 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, and what is wrong with me doing so?



It comes off as creepy, especially how you write it in your cold clinical diction.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 6, 2011)

Jena said:


> It comes off as creepy, especially how you write it in your cold clinical diction.



I write with "cold, clinical diction," as you phrase it, because that is how professional researchers write, and I am attempting to emulate them. If other users find the manner in which I write to be "creepy," they can simply ignore me, and I will not be offended if they do so.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 6, 2011)

here

I doodled.

 Also, writing this post is funner than typing <3


----------



## Jena (Jun 6, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> here
> 
> I doodled.
> 
> Also, writing this post is funner than typing <3



I was afraid it was going to be you drawing a penis or something 
That's really cute though! And actually pretty hypnotic to watch.



DemonDragonJ said:


> I write with "cold, clinical diction," as you phrase it, because that is how professional researchers, write, and I am attempting to emulate them. If other users find the manner in which I write to be "creepy," they can simply ignore me, and I will not be offended if they do so.


1) You used too many commas and 2) I'm going to keep this brief because it seems futile and I don't really care...but: there is a time and place for everything. People are going to be less inclined to take you seriously when you write in passive eloquent language on the internet. The reason why professional researchers write like that is because they are communicating with _other_ professional researchers. Part of writing is knowing your audience. If you want people to connect with what you're saying/writing and to examine it further, you'll need to appeal to them. You wouldn't walk up to a third grader and say "I'm rather displeased with the status of the recently evicted pseudo-planet, aren't you? It saddens me that I will no longer be able to rely on the mnemonic device I learned in my youth." and, likewise, you wouldn't tell your college professor "I want Pluto to still be a planet cause I can't use the rhyme thingy no more!"

But whatever. You don't seem to be concerned with effective communication and are more engaged in (allegedly) unintentionally making yourself sound like a pretentious ass so go ahead and write however you want to your heart's content. Just stop asking why people are baiting and mocking you. It's not a great mystery.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 7, 2011)

Jena said:


> 1) You used too many commas and 2) I'm going to keep this brief because it seems futile and I don't really care...but: there is a time and place for everything. People are going to be less inclined to take you seriously when you write in passive eloquent language on the internet. The reason why professional researchers write like that is because they are communicating with _other_ professional researchers. Part of writing is knowing your audience. If you want people to connect with what you're saying/writing and to examine it further, you'll need to appeal to them. You wouldn't walk up to a third grader and say "I'm rather displeased with the status of the recently evicted pseudo-planet, aren't you? It saddens me that I will no longer be able to rely on the mnemonic device I learned in my youth." and, likewise, you wouldn't tell your college professor "I want Pluto to still be a planet cause I can't use the rhyme thingy no more!"
> 
> But whatever. You don't seem to be concerned with effective communication and are more engaged in (allegedly) unintentionally making yourself sound like a pretentious ass so go ahead and write however you want to your heart's content. Just stop asking why people are baiting and mocking you. It's not a great mystery.



First, thank you for noticing that I used too many commas; I did not notice that I did so.

Second, are you daring to say that it is my fault that the other users here are being so rude to me? How many times must I say that I am being a paragon of politeness and friendliness to everyone here? I always am very respectful toward other users here and never openly or directly insult any of them, so if they do not like my manner of speech, that is their problem, and their fault, not mine.

Now, could we please return to the subject of _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_ I really do not wish to continue defending my manner of speech, which I should not need to do, anyway, as doing so causes great tension and strife between the users of this forum. I would like to focus on the television series to which this thread is dedicated, as I enjoyed it very much and am awaiting the new series eagerly.

With that being said, while I have not seen M. Night Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender,_ I did believe that having Aang's tattoos have intricate patterns, rather than being solid in color, was an interesting idea, as the solid stripes were rather ordinary and unexciting, to me. What does everyone else say about that?

And on that subject, what if Tenzin or any other airbenders in the new series have tattoos that are different from the standard airbender tattoos? That would certainly be interesting, at least to me.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 7, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> here
> 
> I doodled.
> 
> Also, writing this post is funner than typing <3






​


----------



## Burke (Jun 7, 2011)

did you guys catch my korra fanart


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 7, 2011)

N??ps said:


> did you guys catch my korra fanart



No, because I was not aware that you illustrated any. Please post it here, or provide links to where you have posted it, so that I may see it, and offer you my opinion of it.


----------



## Burke (Jun 7, 2011)

N??ps said:


> A quick pencil drawing.
> 
> NOT THE HEAD IS NOT SMALL SHES JUST LOOKING DOWN A BIT
> 
> someone buy me photoshop so i can make decent stuff




foundit


----------



## ArcticSiren (Jun 8, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> With that being said, while I have not seen M. Night Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender,_ I did believe that having Aang's tattoos have intricate patterns, rather than being solid in color, was an interesting idea, as the solid stripes were rather ordinary and unexciting, to me. What does everyone else say about that?



The tattoos were okay, but I didn't really like them much, that may just be because I have a grudge against the movie though. I just feel like instead of worrying about something so little, like the tattoos looking nicer, they should have worked on the story. 

I guess the pattern is interesting though, as opposed to the solid color.


----------



## Wan (Jun 8, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, thank you for noticing that I used too many commas; I did not notice that I did so.
> 
> Second, are you daring to say that it is my fault that the other users here are being so rude to me? How many times must I say that I am being a paragon of politeness and friendliness to everyone here? I always am very respectful toward other users here and never openly or directly insult any of them, so if they do not like my manner of speech, that is their problem, and their fault, not mine.



People _don't  like_ others who are "paragons of politeness" all the time.  It can come off as pretentious, snotty, artificial, and impersonal.  Let's have a look at just what the word "professional" means, shall we? (from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary)

1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot> 

Now, what does that all tie back into?  A _profession_.  Is posting on a forum a profession?  Is being an Avatar fan a profession?  No.  Social forums are not the place for excessive professionalism, _because there is nothing to be professional about._  If you can't understand this, perhaps you just shouldn't post on social forums at all.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 9, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> People _don't  like_ others who are "paragons of politeness" all the time.  It can come off as pretentious, snotty, artificial, and impersonal.  Let's have a look at just what the word "professional" means, shall we? (from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary)
> 
> 1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
> 2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
> ...



Are you saying that I should be more like certain users of this forum, who are rude and impolite to nearly everyone, making scathing remarks and giving out -rep when doing so is completely unjustified? I will never be like those users, as I hold myself to a much higher standard of behavior, politeness, and respect than that. I have said this before, but I shall say it again: if other users here do not like the manner in which I speak, _*that is their problem, NOT MINE!!!!!!*_

Now, could we _please_ remain focused on the main topic of this thread, _Avatar: the Last Airbender?_ Having to discuss my manner of speech with other users causes me to experience immense stress and frustration, and the general rudeness of certain users here does not help, at all, so I wish to avoid such discussion, if I can.


----------



## Wan (Jun 9, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you saying that I should be more like certain users of this forum, who are rude and impolite to nearly everyone, making scathing remarks and giving out -rep when doing so is completely unjustified? I will never be like those users, as I hold myself to a much higher standard of behavior, politeness, and respect than that. I have said this before, but I shall say it again: if other users here do not like the manner in which I speak, _*that is their problem, NOT MINE!!!!!!*_



No.  That's not what I am saying.  Different environments call for different kinds of politeness, and a casual internet forum calls for a more informal kind of politeness than a professional environment.  One can be informal without being rude.  Blaming others for their response to your demeanor is likely only to aggravate their attitude towards you.

But fine, I'll drop the subject, I'm sure I'm not the first to say this to you nor shall I be the last.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 9, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> No.  That's not what I am saying.  Different environments call for different kinds of politeness, and a casual internet forum calls for a more informal kind of politeness than a professional environment.  One can be informal without being rude. Blaming others for their response to your demeanor is likely only to aggravate their attitude towards you.
> 
> But fine, I'll drop the subject, I'm sure I'm not the first to say this to you nor shall I be the last.



Thank you very much; I am glad that we have reached an understanding on this subject.

At the end of the original series, there were three official couples, and of those three, one couple (Aang and Katara) has been confirmed to have at least one descendant (Tenzin). What about the other two couples (Mai and Zuko, Sokka and Suki)? I am hoping that they also had descendants, and that such descendants may be appear in the new series. Does anyone else here hope for such a thing?


----------



## Burke (Jun 9, 2011)

Well definetly see a decendant of zuko and mai. Dante has said he voices a part in the series and he dropped hints.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 9, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Well definetly see a decendant of zuko and mai. Dante has said he voices a part in the series and he dropped hints.



I wonder if a descendant of Zuko and Mai shall be the new Fire Lord/Lady, and if that is the case, will there still be tension in the Fire Nation royal family, or did that cycle finally end with Zuko?


----------



## Wan (Jun 9, 2011)

I definitely think we'll see a descendant of Zuko and Mai sitting on the Fire Nation throne.


----------



## Noah (Jun 9, 2011)

It's only been one or two generations since Zuko took the throne. Unless there was some huge uprising that shattered the core of the Fire Nation, I have no doubt we'll see his next of kin in charge of the Fire Nation.


----------



## Burke (Jun 9, 2011)

i say grandson if dante is voicing


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 9, 2011)

I wasn't so sure before, but now that they beefed up the episode count, I'd be willing to bet that we not only see the progeny of all three, but we'll get some answers about post-show ships that happened. Bet we find out who Toph ended up with, certainly.


----------



## Jena (Jun 9, 2011)

Jove said:


> I wasn't so sure before, but now that they beefed up the episode count, I'd be willing to bet that we not only see the progeny of all three, but we'll get some answers about post-show ships that happened. Bet we find out who Toph ended up with, certainly.



My money's on The Boulder


----------



## Noah (Jun 9, 2011)

I vote no one. She's so awesome no one can handle her and she just reproduces off of her own awesome.

Watch. You'll see she spit up a rock that cracked and a tiny Toph came out with all of her memories. Just like Piccolo.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 9, 2011)

Jena said:


> My money's on The Boulder


Iroh!  He's the only free man she had any real connection to.


----------



## Jena (Jun 9, 2011)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Iroh!  He's the only free man she had any real connection to.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 9, 2011)

I, also, am eager to learn what legacy Toph may have in _The Legend of Korra._ I would not at all be surprised if she joined the Order of the White Lotus and became very similar to Bumi in her old age.


----------



## Koi (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm thinking nobody, but she probably had a harem of awesome, manly men to wash her feet for her.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 9, 2011)

Koi said:


> I'm thinking nobody, but she probably had a harem of awesome, manly men to wash her feet for her.


And by wash, you mean slather in mud


----------



## Stunna (Jun 9, 2011)

Ugh, I hate it when the show shows her feet.

I mean, come on.


----------



## Wan (Jun 10, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Ugh, I hate it when the show shows her feet.
> 
> I mean, come on.



What sort of nonsense is this.  Toph's feet are like Aang's arrow.  Or Sokka's boomerang.  Or Katara's hair loopies. 

TophxTheDuke foreva


----------



## Stunna (Jun 10, 2011)

If you like watching little girl walk on feces, then sure.


----------



## Koi (Jun 10, 2011)

What.


----------



## Stunna (Jun 10, 2011)

Her feet look like she walks in diarrhea, and frankly it makes me sick thinking about it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 10, 2011)

What disrespect to an entire culture.


----------



## Stunna (Jun 10, 2011)

I freaking hate feet. Least favorite part of the body after the bellybutton.


----------



## Jena (Jun 10, 2011)

Stunna said:


> If you like watching little girl walk on feces, then sure.



Were you looking through my search history again?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jun 10, 2011)

...

Anyway. Anyone else get the feeling that the whole thing about everyone from the first show being dead in the Korra timeline is just a smokescreen so it will be a surprise when a few of them actually do show up?  I mean seriously, they'd only be in their mid-80's, and we've seen plenty of characters well past that in the Avatar world (Bumi and Kyoshi being the most obvious examples).


----------



## Wan (Jun 10, 2011)

I certainly hope so.


----------



## Sasuke Uchiha (Jun 10, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> ...
> 
> Anyway. Anyone else get the feeling that the whole thing about everyone from the first show being dead in the Korra timeline is just a smokescreen so it will be a surprise when a few of them actually do show up?  I mean seriously, they'd only be in their mid-80's, and we've seen plenty of characters well past that in the Avatar world (Bumi and Kyoshi being the most obvious examples).



I don't like the idea of that. I mean it isn't so bad. But I'd much like to see their kids who should look just like them. The better either have Toph or a Toph kid is all I know.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 10, 2011)

I'm sure Iroh gives Toph plenty of herbal baths for her feet. 


stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Anyone else get the feeling that the whole thing about everyone from the first show being dead in the Korra timeline is just a smokescreen so it will be a surprise when a few of them actually do show up?


That seals it; Bumi will still be cackling it up in Omashu.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 10, 2011)

Well, they didn't say that _everyone_ is dead.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 10, 2011)

I'm sure with how sensitive Toph's feet are, she gets feetgasms


----------



## Quaero (Jun 11, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I'm sure with how sensitive Toph's feet are, she gets feetgasms



I can't believe I'm doing this...

Sensitive != erogenous. 

Your eyeballs are very sensitive, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't enjoy someone rubbing them.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 11, 2011)

Felt I had to share this review I saw on Netflix of the series as a whole - 



> I have to admit this is a hooking t.v. show!! But if I could I would like to rate it a big 0! Or an F for falior!! If you like japenese cartoons this is the t.v. show for you other wise thumbs down!



This might have been written either by a troll who's been around the block a few times or a child. I don't think that I'd read anything more contradictory in my life.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 11, 2011)

Quaero said:


> I can't believe I'm doing this...
> 
> Sensitive != erogenous.
> 
> Your eyeballs are very sensitive, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't enjoy someone rubbing them.


Actually, people report that they get orgasms from eye licking 

And feet are a known erogenous zone


----------



## Burke (Jun 11, 2011)

hahahahahhdwuahfuhaiwudhauiwdhlbagrabragralbr

new topic


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 11, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Actually, people report that they get orgasms from eye licking


Iroh wouldn't have to worry about hurting Toph's vision either.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 12, 2011)

Toph is so gifted


----------



## Wan (Jun 12, 2011)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Iroh wouldn't have to worry about hurting Toph's vision either.



Ew...just...no pervy old man with underage girl sex in mah Avatar.  kthx.


----------



## Time Expired (Jun 12, 2011)

Shaidar Haran said:


> Iroh wouldn't have to worry about hurting Toph's vision either.




​
                 .


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 12, 2011)

As expected, Drag creeps everyone the fuck out. Eyeball licking is a gross trend, and orgasms resultant are a preposterous myth.

Mike and Bryan need to get more Korra info out pretty soon; look what the bored fanbase is coming to... I'd do a top 5 list but I can't even think of one right now.


----------



## Wan (Jun 12, 2011)

Top 5...Toph-isms?  (Snoozles, twinkletoes, sugar queen, etc?)


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 13, 2011)

I still am wondering if Azula shall have any legacy in _The Legend of Korra?_ I definitely am hoping that her story is not finished.

I also do not like how Toph prefers to have her feet dirty, but I shall not question her preference, as I do not appreciate having my preferences questioned.


----------



## Jena (Jun 13, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I still am wondering if Azula shall have any legacy in _The Legend of Korra?_ I definitely am hoping that her story is not finished.



I'm hoping for this somewhere along the line.


*Spoiler*: __ 








 Azula is too BAMF to be contained.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 13, 2011)

Jena said:


> I'm hoping for this somewhere along the line.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I have seen that image before, and I am very fond of it; I can definitely imagine Azula breaking from from prison in such a manner, similar to how Iroh did in _Day of the Black Sun._


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jun 13, 2011)

Personally, I would love to see an 84 year old Azula show up as a member of the White Lotus. Complete with a scene where Aang momentarily takes over Korra (like Kyoshi did to Aang in "Avatar Day") so he can say hi to an old friend.

A few reasons for wanting this.  Azula's my favorite character , but that didn't happen till the second to last episode (Into the Inferno, which was the episode Azula suffered her mental breakdown).  Up till that episode, I wanted to see her get her comeuppance, as I imagine everyone else did.  But, with what happened to her in that episode, when it did finally happen, I couldn't help but feel sorry for her.  There was a lot going on with her character in those final episodes, and I feel that bringing her back as a villain, or at the least, her leaving a legacy of a villain, sort of makes all that eleventh hour character development/deconstruction almost pointless. 

On top of that, I think it would just be a great way to screw with poeple. Since I think most fans expect Azula to have left a villains legacy, and it would be a great way for them to flip that expectation.


----------



## Wan (Jun 13, 2011)

...while that would be interesting to see, it would be VERY hard to pull off properly.  Azula was nowhere near that way either before or after her breakdown.  There would have to be at least a whole episode devoted to her switch-around, perhaps more, and I don't know if that would fit in on a "next-generation" type show like Korra.  To have her show up with saying, "Yeah, I'm one of the good guys now" with a quick voice-over'd flashback explaining how she turned around would be extremely cheap and I would hate it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 14, 2011)

I dunno; I'd prefer for as much as possible from the first series to remain open. The Azula Question is one I'd rather have left unanswered.


----------



## Noah (Jun 14, 2011)

^ I was starting to wonder if I was the only person who liked open endings that let you infer for yourself. As I've said before, I really don't need to see Zuko find his mom. The fact that he asked Ozai means he did/will.

I would really love there were only a few things that linked back to the first series. Aang's spirit showing up would be an obvious one. Then maybe a mention on each of the other members of the Gaang, but that's it. Linking Korra and Last Airbender is one of those cases where less is probably better than more.


----------



## Jena (Jun 14, 2011)

I'd rather have loose endings than stupid Lucas-type: "let's shoehorn everyone and everything possible into this regardless of sense to mildly entertain the fanboys."


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 14, 2011)

Noah said:


> ^ I was starting to wonder if I was the only person who liked open endings that let you infer for yourself. As I've said before, I really don't need to see Zuko find his mom. The fact that he asked Ozai means he did/will.
> 
> I would really love there were only a few things that linked back to the first series. Aang's spirit showing up would be an obvious one. Then maybe a mention on each of the other members of the Gaang, but that's it. Linking Korra and Last Airbender is one of those cases where less is probably better than more.



I think it would actually be pretty cool if they expanded upon Spiritbending a bit, showing it's detriments. The supplementary material (I believe it was Nick.com) gave crucial insights like how only the Avatar can perform it and how it's a _last_ resort.

But then again, we still get people who didn't catch how dangerous it is to accomplish. You know, that subtle hint of Aang coming literally a pixel away from being completely corrupted. 

You know, with connections to the Gaang, there's subtle ways they can allude to their post-series actions. I mean, at this point it's the direct history of the Avatar World. The Battle of Wulong Forest (with the Great Agni Kai and the Liberation of Ba Sing Se) is to the Korra Epoch what WWII is to ours.

As far as open ends... I still say the one thing I wished they touched upon was Iroh's trip to the Spirit World. Even if was just in still Flash animation ala Escape from the Spirit World. It still confounds and mystifies me.


----------



## Noah (Jun 14, 2011)

Jove said:


> I think it would actually be pretty cool if they expanded upon Spiritbending a bit, showing it's detriments. The supplementary material (I believe it was Nick.com) gave crucial insights like how only the Avatar can perform it and how it's a _last_ resort.
> 
> But then again, we still get people who didn't catch how dangerous it is to. You know, that subtle hint of Aang coming literally a pixel away from being completely corrupted.
> 
> ...



Well, obviously a lot of the events immediately following the end of TLA is going to be touched upon, and I wouldn't be surprised at mentions of what happened with the Gaang or how they impacted the world individually (maybe mentions of an epic Bumi vs Toph battle or some such shenanigans), but I would rather not here about Azula rehabilitation or anything like that. 

Maybe I should have been a little more specific. If it follows the lore of the Avatar itself then, yes, explain away. Tell us about spiritbending, Koh, Lion Turtles and even the great library(not directly Avatar related, but it does hold the mysteries of the world). Hell, Iroh's journey to the spirit world can even be lumped in that group. Actually, it should be lumped in there. But that's really the only things that should be explored.

Actually...I think my whole argument is against seeing some sort of concrete resolution on the Zuko's mom thing. Everytime I try to think up an example of what not to see, all I get is that. I just really don't want to see/hear it. So maybe my argument is "If it was hinted at and it's not directly related to the mythology of the Avatar itself, don't show it."


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 16, 2011)

Well guys, don't forget about the Dark Horse comic series that will pick up where Book 3 left off. I'm sure those will expand much more on the story rather than having Korra try to cram everything in.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jun 16, 2011)

I seriously can't wait for those. And when I say I'm serious, I mean it. I'm cryo-freezing myself until that's published.


----------



## Bazu'aal (Jun 16, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well guys, don't forget about the Dark Horse comic series that will pick up where Book 3 left off. I'm sure those will expand much more on the story rather than having Korra try to cram everything in.



First time hearing this.


----------



## Jena (Jun 16, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well guys, don't forget about the Dark Horse comic series that will pick up where Book 3 left off. I'm sure those will expand much more on the story rather than having Korra try to cram everything in.



Wait, what now?

What.

Why have I not heard about this???


----------



## Noah (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm with Jena. I demand an explanation for why this is the first I've heard of this!


----------



## Stunna (Jun 16, 2011)

Yeah, what the heck is this? And if it doesn't continue the plot how I have imagined it to be, it will be utter crap in my eyes.


*Spoiler*: _I know no one asked, but here's how I would continue it_ 



It would pick up after a three year time-skip. In those three years, Katara and Sokka will have returned to the Southern Water Tribe with their father and the other tribesmen; Toph would become leader of the Dai-Li in Ba Sing Se; Iroh would continue heading the Jasmine Dragon; Zuko would continue to be the Fire Lord; and Aang will have been traveling the globe, doing Avatar business and having mastered the Avatar State after training with Guru Pathik. Aang would reunite with Sokka and Katara, just in time to find out that Zuko has gone missing. Tasked with retrieving him, the "Gaang" would be reunited for the first time in years to track him down, unknowing that Zuko has left on his own accord to locate his mother.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jun 16, 2011)

If it takes Zuko any longer than 2 weeks to find his mom after becoming the ruler of an entire country including access to all the resources that entails, then he's very very shitty at his job.


----------



## Stunna (Jun 16, 2011)

Or his mom could be involved with some underground conspiring organization. In which case he wouldn't suck so much.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 16, 2011)

I did indeed post this when it hit the 'net. Nobody said anything even then.




> Additionally, Dark Horse will create all-new Airbender stories that will be published as digest-style original graphic novels—conveniently sized paperback collections—in early 2012. Picking up where the season three finale left off, this new series will follow the further adventures of Aang and his friends, as they help to rebuild a world torn apart by 100 years of war.
> 
> “We had a great experience collaborating with Dark Horse on Avatar: The Last Airbender — The Art of the Animated Series,” series co-creator Michael Dante DiMartino said. “We are excited to work closely with them once again to bring the further adventures of Avatar Aang and his friends to the comic world.”


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 16, 2011)

I recall we said quite a bit about them. 


PS: I want my smod color to be sky blue in honor of Aang's arrows, but YK's color is too similar.


----------



## Burke (Jun 16, 2011)

WOWOWOW
Jove, congratz.
*Remembers the days of Jove, the normal member*

Heres to jove, the most sensible smod in the forums.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 16, 2011)

Jove said:


> I recall we said quite a bit about them.
> 
> (



I don't remember that. The news was posted and we quickly went on to other things.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 16, 2011)

Oh right. Yes, when _you_ posted it we all moved on immediately. But then Stab reposted it and then we talked about it for a bit. Ah, Stab. 


No, it looks like it got caught up in the big debate about what language the characters speak on Avatar. We could speculate on what they might do. I'm not familiar with Dark Horse outside of Avatar, so I'm not sure what tone the stories will be. I'm just excited that they will be fully canon.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 16, 2011)

Well I believe that I wrote once that Dark Horse don't publish any titles that target a really young audience. I believe that these comics will most likely go for a much more mature tone than the comics meant for Nick magazine.


----------



## Jena (Jun 16, 2011)

Doesn't Dark Horse do a lot of horror/adult stuff?


----------



## Stunna (Jun 16, 2011)

Maybe I can have my dark time skip after all!


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2011)

Jena said:


> Doesn't Dark Horse do a lot of horror/adult stuff?


 
They're just like Marvel and DC.  

Well, not exactly like.  They're the third largest comic publisher behind the big 2; they are famous for, mainly, comics from Star Wars and Hellboy.


----------



## Glued (Jun 16, 2011)

Jena said:


> Doesn't Dark Horse do a lot of horror/adult stuff?



Dark Horse does a lot of stuff.

They distribute Hellboy, BRPD, and Goon
They at one time distributed Godzilla comics.
They distribute Star Wars Comics
They distribute Aliens Comics
They distribute Predators comics
They distribute Conan Comics
They distribute Buffy and Angel Comics
They distribute Solomon Cane Comics


----------



## Glued (Jun 16, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> *They're just like Marvel and DC.  *
> .





> *They're just like Marvel and DC.  *





> *They're just like Marvel and DC.  *





> *They're just like Marvel and DC.  *


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2011)

For those unacquainted with them, or in general.  

People seem to think Dark Horse is this niche, ultra underground publisher when they're the third biggest distributor of comics in the US.


----------



## Aruarian (Jun 16, 2011)

Doesn't Dark Horse do manga as well? I know they did Hellsing.

*ED!*t: And Gantz, Blade of the Immortal, Berserk, Ghost in the Shell, Trigun and a lot of others.


----------



## Glued (Jun 16, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> For those unacquainted with them, or in general.
> 
> People seem to think Dark Horse is this niche, ultra underground publisher when they're the third biggest distributor of comics in the US.



Which is still less than 5% of the market even after DC's sudden drop after Flashpoint


----------



## Stunna (Jun 16, 2011)

Wow, I've never heard of anything beyond Dark Horse on that chart. Save for Viz.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 16, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Wow, I've never heard of anything beyond Dark Horse on that chart. Save for Viz.



Not even Image? I'm sure you've at least heard of Spawn.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 16, 2011)

It's a big .01%.


----------



## Glued (Jun 16, 2011)

If Image ever got ahold of a television company, they would be able secure a position as top 3 along with DC and Marvel.

The Savage Dragon had his own Cartoon series back in the 90s.

Firebreather even had his own CGI movie on Cartoon Network recently.


----------



## Stunna (Jun 16, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Not even Image? I'm sure you've at least heard of Spawn.



I've heard of Spawn, yeah. I'm sure I've heard of some of their series, but as for the name of the companies themselves? Nope.


----------



## Glued (Jun 16, 2011)

Hmm...the sun must have been in your eyes...or should I say...your EYE.

Sorry I just had to get that off my chest after seeing your signature.


----------



## Narcissus (Jun 17, 2011)

Avatar comics by Dark Horse, huh? Sounds interesting. I'll have to be sure to check that out.


----------



## Burke (Jun 17, 2011)

Its been almost a year since our first news of Korra :S
How long must we wait!


----------



## blakstealth (Jun 17, 2011)

Isn't it supposed to come out this year? Or was it 2012?


----------



## Burke (Jun 17, 2011)

It will most likely follow the norms of television releases so either fall of this year, february of next year, or, god help us, fall of next year.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm fully expecting 2012.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 17, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Its been almost a year since our first news of Korra :S
> How long must we wait!



Hopefully we'll know in 5 weeks.


----------



## Burke (Jun 17, 2011)

You speak of Comiccon im sure?

edit: Jove is officially over 9000 
On a related note, for some reason my CP is displaying all of the rep ive gotten since ive started, and according to it, Jove has repped me the most with a total of 14 times =w=


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 17, 2011)

Too bad I have barely any rep power. You need to sidle up to some heavyweight with a 2005 join date.

I don't see anything scheduled yet with Mike and Bryan, but I'd be shocked if _nothing_ happens.


So, what are we looking for in the Dark Horse stories? I have a feeling that since they are probably self-contained vignettes we won't get _too_ much depth.

But, for instance, would it bother you if they spent more time on moving forward and less on hanging plots from the series? Would you tune out any new characters that play a part in the stories?


----------



## Time Expired (Jun 17, 2011)

Jove is super, congratulations man. 



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm fully expecting 2012.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 17, 2011)

I'd be satisfied with either a continuing story or a smattering of single shots.

There might be too much pressure to fulfill hangers left from the original series and that might dampen the story's ability to be unique; since we've been told loose ends would be wrapped up in Korra, I'd like to see either post-Phoenix King Fire Nation and the rest of the world or just stories from around the world leading up to the new series.


----------



## bachaa (Jun 17, 2011)

Anyone else know that they're making a spin-off mini series in 2012?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jun 17, 2011)

Dude, seriously.  I know it's a long thread an all, but the post _directly above yours_ specifically mentions the spinoff.


----------



## bachaa (Jun 17, 2011)

lol my bad


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jun 17, 2011)

No prob. We're all excited about it, you just happen to be like, the tenth person that's posted a "do you know about the new show" post in the middle of a discussion about the new show.  So if I came across a little short, I didn't mean too.

By all means stick around,  this is a happening place. Crack open a beer, get analytical with DemonDragonJ, goof around with Noops, talk about the the best episode of Avatar ever with Jove (hint, it involves a beach), and have a good time.


----------



## bachaa (Jun 17, 2011)

Haha sounds great


----------



## Time Expired (Jun 17, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'd be satisfied with either a continuing story or a smattering of single shots.
> 
> There might be too much pressure to fulfill hangers left from the original series and that might dampen the story's ability to be unique; since we've been told loose ends would be wrapped up in Korra, I'd like to see either post-Phoenix King Fire Nation and the rest of the world or just stories from around the world leading up to the new series.



Certainly.  While I've no doubt these guys could successfully tie up loose ends in Korra, several of these issues could be given the kind of attention that would be cumbersome.  The issue with Ursa, for instance, would be rather nice as a stand-alone methinks.  

...speaking of which - *Stab*, I just read the prologue of your fanfic.  Tis very good.  I'm going to plow through the rest.  Reps.


----------



## Quaero (Jun 17, 2011)

I wonder if Mike and Bryan will throw a bone (read again) the Zutarians in the comics?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 18, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> No prob. We're all excited about it, you just happen to be like, the tenth person that's posted a "do you know about the new show" post in the middle of a discussion about the new show.  So if I came across a little short, I didn't mean too.
> 
> By all means stick around,  this is a happening place. Crack open a beer, get analytical with DemonDragonJ, goof around with Noops, talk about the the best episode of Avatar ever with Jove (hint, it involves a beach), and have a good time.


What do I do?


----------



## Burke (Jun 18, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What do I do?



Call noops an idiot when he goofs around, what else is there to do?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yeah, really Stab... how do you forget Rekky?


----------



## Wan (Jun 19, 2011)

Wow.  Youtube's pretty quick with its copyright enforcement.  I tried uploading a quick video of Aang and Ozai's fight and immediately Youtube was all like NO.  You are infringing on Viacom's copyright.  VIDEO BLOCKED IN ALL COUNTRIES.

And it wasn't even the title "Aang vs Ozai" that gave it away.  I re-uploaded the video with just the title "Test" and it still got blocked.  I don't think that's because I was flagged, either.  I then uploaded a trailer for Mass Effect 2 just labeled "Test 2", which it STILL IDENTIFIED as EA copyrighted material, but allowed to be uploaded because EA isn't schizo about people spreading around their content.

Freakin Youtube.  Freakin Viacom...

Edit:  Bah.  DailyMotion did it too.  From what I understand it's thanks to an audio detection company called "Audible Magic".  All the major video hosting sites use it to automatically remove videos that match even portions of music, TV shows, and movies in their database.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 19, 2011)

So uncool, stop being so uncool, googletube


----------



## Bazu'aal (Jun 19, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Wow.  Youtube's pretty quick with its copyright enforcement.  I tried uploading a quick video of Aang and Ozai's fight and immediately Youtube was all like NO.  You are infringing on Viacom's copyright.  VIDEO BLOCKED IN ALL COUNTRIES.
> 
> And it wasn't even the title "Aang vs Ozai" that gave it away.  I re-uploaded the video with just the title "Test" and it still got blocked.  I don't think that's because I was flagged, either.  I then uploaded a trailer for Mass Effect 2 just labeled "Test 2", which it STILL IDENTIFIED as EA copyrighted material, but allowed to be uploaded because EA isn't schizo about people spreading around their content.
> 
> ...



Well that explains it. I always wondered how such videos got taken down so quickly. 

Gah, I hate this crap. Industries need to stop being so anal and move towards the 21st century.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 19, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'd be satisfied with either a continuing story or a smattering of single shots.
> 
> There might be too much pressure to fulfill hangers left from the original series and that might dampen the story's ability to be unique; since we've been told loose ends would be wrapped up in Korra, I'd like to see either post-Phoenix King Fire Nation and the rest of the world or just stories from around the world leading up to the new series.





Soul Assassin said:


> Certainly.  While I've no doubt these guys could successfully tie up loose ends in Korra, several of these issues could be given the kind of attention that would be cumbersome.  The issue with Ursa, for instance, would be rather nice as a stand-alone methinks.




With the way they are being packaged -as paperback graphic novels- I wonder if they will simply be more like a chapter of the show, each somewhat self-contained. If the concept is showing them rebuilding the Avatar world, I think we can safely rule out new villains, multi-story arcs, etc.

I expect trips to hotspots that will satisfy fans, like Ba Sing Se and Kyoshi Island and maybe somewhere random like Jang Hui. But if Mike and Bryan and Avatar team members are involved I anticipate expansion: new locations, stories based on theme.

Hopefully they have enough room in these GN's to have b-stories.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 19, 2011)

Sacrifice said:


> Well that explains it. I always wondered how such videos got taken down so quickly.
> 
> Gah, I hate this crap. Industries need to stop being so anal and move towards the 21st century.



Yes, I agree with you; so many companies are being ridiculously strict about their copyright enforcement, and doing so is preventing fans from properly enjoying their franchises or sharing them with others.

As for the series itself, I would like to see more side-stories and focus on minor characters, as I did enjoy the focus on the main charatcers, I believe that minor characters help to give the world more depth and realism. Hopefully, the writers of any supplemental materials shall have this opinion, as well, and act upon it.


----------



## Glued (Jun 20, 2011)

There is one thing wrong with this thread, Not enough COMBUSTION MAN!!!


----------



## Jena (Jun 20, 2011)

I saw this comercial on TV today and it reminded me of Avatar.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 20, 2011)

Ah, so that's where he ended up


----------



## Glued (Jun 20, 2011)

Its sad that in this series, the Wind Bisons are probably all extinct.

A shame really.

I've always wondered how a Wind Bison burger or a Wind Bison steak would taste.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 20, 2011)

What no bison testicles?

Are you on a diet?

Wait, they're low in fat!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 21, 2011)

Anyone keeping up the the AV Club reviews? If you haven't, and you're confused by the top:



> Also, no more letter grades.  Just assume that they’re all A- except for those that are clearly deservings of some stripe of B or, perhaps, an A+



So that's good, but also incredibly lazy and takes away much of the anticipation of each review.


----------



## Piekage (Jun 21, 2011)

Jove said:


> Anyone keeping up the the AV Club reviews? If you haven't, and you're confused by the top:
> 
> 
> 
> So that's good, but also incredibly lazy and takes away much of the anticipation of each review.



I had forgotten about them. I'll have to check it out.

Anyone familar with Mark Watches? He's (Mark) watching it too. It's nice to read the perspective of someone completely ignorant of the series and watch the guesses he makes about how the series will play out. He's actually gotten a few of them right.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah, that was mentioned a while back. I've fallen behind on his reviews.


----------



## Wan (Jun 21, 2011)

Jove said:


> Anyone keeping up the the AV Club reviews? If you haven't, and you're confused by the top:
> 
> 
> 
> So that's good, but also incredibly lazy and takes away much of the anticipation of each review.



The Beach is an A+.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 22, 2011)

No. A+++ with an added cherry on top.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 22, 2011)

It's an anguished face with a minus sign freshly branded on it, the flesh still sizzling and the skin charred and cracking.


----------



## Glued (Jun 22, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> No. A+++ with an added cherry on top.



Why, expositional storytelling?

The Beach was a disgrace, I'm sorry, but it was. First rule of storytelling, show, don't tell.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 22, 2011)

I thought it was a nice homage to the Breakfast Club with head injuries


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Why, expositional storytelling?
> 
> The Beach was a disgrace, I'm sorry, but it was. First rule of storytelling, show, don't tell.



Are you saying that actual flashbacks of the characters' back stories should have been shown, rather than the characters merely talking about them? I do agree with that idea, but perhaps doing so would have taken more time than the 22-minute time slot that most television episodes occupy, so the story writers needed to adapt to that format. Regardless of that, I still enjoyed _The Beach_ immensely, because of the character interaction, the humorous (and also very suggestive) content, the presence of Combustion Man, and how Zuko, Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee achieved stronger bonds of friendship by the end of the episode.

I have wondered: how would Zuko react to someone (Sokka, for example) telling him that they found his mother, Ursa, to be attractive? Would he simply say ,"thank you" and not make a great deal of out it, or would he be slightly disturbed, and react with anger toward the person who spoke?


----------



## Jena (Jun 22, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have wondered: how would Zuko react to someone (Sokka, for example) telling him that they found his mother, Ursa, to be attractive? Would he simply say ,"thank you" and not make a great deal of out it, or would he be slightly disturbed, and react with anger toward the person who spoke?



You already asked this.


----------



## Stunna (Jun 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Why, expositional storytelling?
> 
> The Beach was a disgrace, I'm sorry, but it was. First rule of storytelling, show, don't tell.



I agree with this.

It was an interesting episode, and I'm glad they covered some character's back-stories and fleshed them out, but it should have been handled better.

Though the part where Zuko breaks down about his father in front of the fire is one of my favorite parts of the series.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 22, 2011)

Jena said:


> You already asked this.



Yes, but I did not receive a proper answer for it, and it is a perfectly legitimate question to ask, even if other users do not like it. I am not forcing you to answer it, my good friend, so there is no need to be so exasperated over it, in my mind.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 22, 2011)

Of course he'd be angry. He's _Zuko._


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 23, 2011)

Jove said:


> Of course he'd be angry. He's _Zuko._



Yes, I can imagine that he would be, especially considering how he reacts very defensively and aggressively toward perceived insults and how he seems to be slightly _too_ fond of his mother, in my mind.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 23, 2011)

You know, now that I think about it, there were subtle changes in the character's personalities, but essentially they remained the same. For instance, Zuko is less anguished, but he's still temperamental. Aang is still cavalier and adventurous, but more confident.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 23, 2011)

Jove said:


> You know, now that I think about it, there were subtle changes in the character's personalities, but essentially they remained the same. For instance, Zuko is less anguished, but he's still temperamental. Aang is still cavalier and adventurous, but more confident.



Yes, I noticed that, as well, and other charatcers evolved as time passed, also. For example, Toph and Katara gradually became less abrasive as they progressed in their journey, and Sokka learned to become a mature and responsible leader. To me, such continuity and character development is a sign of a well-written story. Azula and Ozai, however, were unable to change and adapt as the series progressed, which is likely a major factor in their downfalls.

On that subject, did anyone else feel that the renewed bonds between Zuko, Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee were shattered after _The Boiling Rock,_ essentially undoing all the character development from _The Beach?_ I certainly believed so.


----------



## Jena (Jun 23, 2011)

^Well, Zuko and Mai patched things up. I think that Ty Lee and Mai never really broke from each other. Boiling Rock was more about Ty Lee and Mai defying Azula. Mai and Zuko had an argument, but if you'll remember, later Mai decided that she trusted Zuko. She defied Azula and Ty Lee sided with Mai, attacking Azula.

I'm going to assume that they never made up with Azula. She doesn't seem the forgiving type.


----------



## Wan (Jun 29, 2011)

So.  With the anti-bending revolution going on during Legend of Korra, the creators have said there will be an anti-bending villain who is a challenge for Korra.  But how could he pose a threat to Korra?  Maybe he uses technology to rival the sheer power the Avatar wields.  How scary would THAT be?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jun 29, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> So.  With the anti-bending revolution going on during Legend of Korra, the creators have said there will be an anti-bending villain who is a challenge for Korra.  But how could he pose a threat to Korra?  Maybe he uses technology to rival the sheer power the Avatar wields.  How scary would THAT be?


Oh dear Avatar, he or she found the Space Sword!


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 29, 2011)

newspaper ad for seobb's bday
*
Legend Of Korra panel at San Diego Comic-Con*

UGO has been great with Avatar news for quite some time now. So there you go, if anyone here is going to Comic-Con then you've got something else to look forward to. From what I remember about the last Avatar panel it was absolutely packed and an hour of that went to something that aired on TV a few days prior. One question I do want asked, just so that it's out the way, is about the name change from Avatar to The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra.


----------



## Jena (Jun 29, 2011)

^If anyone here makes it to that, you _have_ to post up what they say about the new series.

LIKE MAYBE WE'LL ACTUALLY GET SOME REAL INFORMATION, GUIZ


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 29, 2011)

Debuting mid-2012. 

I wouldn't expect much, though. The Q&A's with Mike and Bryan have only worked once. I bet we get a little package, though.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jun 29, 2011)

I expect about as much as they're willing to release. Finished footage? That's a real longshot. I'm sure that some episodes have been sent back from Korea but it's probably too raw. I doubt that the Track team have begun any work on sound design or music. Then again I could be dead wrong but I'm sure that some concept pieces, backgrounds and storyboard will be shown.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 29, 2011)

I didn't mean a SDCC 2007-like package; just some brief clips/sketches that exhibit the Avatar World and characters in Korra's time. I don't think it's outlandish to consider that _some_ finished product could be available.


----------



## Jena (Jun 29, 2011)

^We'll get exactly one more image of Korra.
We've seen her from the back and the front. The time is ripe for a profile picture.

That will be all. And we'll like it.


----------



## Burke (Jun 30, 2011)

i demand nudey pictures


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jun 30, 2011)

It's actually been in production for a while now, so some finished product really wouldn't be out of the question.


----------



## Burke (Jun 30, 2011)

Just imagine... there are people in this world who know the entire plot to the legend of korra ._.


----------



## Koi (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm hoping they announce that sky bison are immortal and Appa's still floating around somewhere.


----------



## Glued (Jun 30, 2011)

I hope that Appa is alive...I'd invite him to my place for a summer barbeque.


----------



## Jena (Jun 30, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I hope that Appa is alive...I'd invite him to my place for a summer barbeque.



What _does_ Appa eat? Is he a herbivore, carnivore, or an omnivore?


----------



## Glued (Jun 30, 2011)

Jena said:


> What _does_ Appa eat? Is he a herbivore, carnivore, or an omnivore?



I plan on serving Bison Sirloin sandwiches.

[YOUTUBE]H44T7C5wwnE[/YOUTUBE]

The Avatar world is such a beautiful place.

Turtle Ducks, Platypus Bears, and etc.

Its a shame that Aang is a vegetarian. Goku would have enjoyed the wildlife in Avatar much more.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jun 30, 2011)

Appa didn't eat Momo.

Appa is herbivore.


----------



## Glued (Jun 30, 2011)

Don't worry, I plan on making Appa the Main Cour... I mean Main Event.


----------



## Koi (Jun 30, 2011)

Definitely a herbivore, judging from those teeth.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jun 30, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I plan on serving Bison Sirloin sandwiches.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]H44T7C5wwnE[/YOUTUBE]



That looks so very delicious; I should try that recipe at some point in the future. 



Ben Grimm said:


> The Avatar world is such a beautiful place.
> 
> Turtle Ducks, Platypus Bears, and etc.
> 
> Its a shame that Aang is a vegetarian. Goku would have enjoyed the wildlife in Avatar much more.



Those are my thoughts, exactly; hopefully, Korra shall not be a vegetarian, as Aang was.



Koi said:


> Definitely a herbivore, judging from those teeth.



Exactly; I was about to point out that exact fact, myself, plus, Appa is a bison, and bison are herbivores. Therefore, I hope that if the heroes of the next series have an animals companion, it is a carnivore.


----------



## Time Expired (Jun 30, 2011)

2012 ._.                   .


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 1, 2011)

So many thinking Ben Grimm was planning to treat Appa to more than a seasoning-and-hot-coal rub down.


 Bison butt has never sounded more delectable.


----------



## Glued (Jul 1, 2011)

I wonder, does a turtleduck taste like a turtle or like a duck


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 1, 2011)

A waterfowl with reptile guts.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I wonder, does a turtleduck taste like a turtle or like a duck



I imagine that it likely has its own distinct flavor, as does every animal.



Dragonus Nesha said:


> So many thinking Ben Grimm was planning to treat Appa to more than a seasoning-and-hot-coal rub down.
> 
> 
> Bison butt has never sounded more delectable.



Yes, I am thinking the same thing; however, one could easily replace Appa's name with that of any attractive female character from the series, and that paragraph would have a very different connotation, indeed.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 1, 2011)

> _The Sixth Sense_ - A Kids' Show on Nickelodeon
> ​ The Story You Know:
> Haley Joel Osment sees dead people, then it is revealed that **SPOILERS** Bruce Willis has been dead the whole time and somehow never notices that other people aren't talking to him. **END SPOILERS**
> 
> ...



Holy shit, a pattern


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 1, 2011)

I bet he doesn't even have a daughter.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 1, 2011)

What a twist!


----------



## Koi (Jul 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I wonder, does a turtleduck taste like a turtle or like a duck



Either way it's probably REALLY gamey and oily.  I do adore duck, though.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 1, 2011)

Call in Andrew Zimmern. He'll try it without flinching.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I wonder, does a turtleduck taste like a turtle or like a duck



Having tried it recently I can inform that it tastes like...chicken.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 1, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> Having tried it recently I can inform that it tastes like...chicken.


What kind of chicken? Chicken Mole, or chickendillo?

...

Who ever heard of a plain ole' chicken?


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 1, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What kind of chicken? Chicken Mole, or chickendillo?
> 
> ...
> 
> Who ever heard of a plain ole' chicken?





Ah really?  Where I come from, the Fire Nation colonies, it's ahh pretty normal.  Just plain ole' chicken.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 1, 2011)

You lie, what makes you lie?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 1, 2011)

I can't believe how much time I've spent watching the videos of those BBQ Bros Grimm youtube'd. I feel ashamed because he roasted and ate Appa meat, but that guy has the most oddly mesmerizing voice...


----------



## Burke (Jul 2, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> Ah really?  Where I come from, the Fire Nation colonies, it's ahh pretty normal.  Just plain ole' chicken.



damned colonials


----------



## Glued (Jul 2, 2011)

I wonder if the Fire Nation colonists in the Earth Kingdom were sent back to their homelands afterwards.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm really tired of this whole everything needs a movie thing


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 3, 2011)

Avatar needs an animated movie.


----------



## Burke (Jul 3, 2011)

Seconded. Jove -><-Me


----------



## Wan (Jul 3, 2011)

Jove said:


> Avatar needs an animated movie.



Quoted for truth.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 3, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I wonder if the Fire Nation colonists in the Earth Kingdom were sent back to their homelands afterwards.



Looking at history, I doubt it. At least, not forcibly sent back. A sizable percentage would have left willingly, and the remaining proportion assimilated. 

I would bet that the isolated settlements integrated to a degree. 

Whereas the settlements that were already "integrated," by having a sovereign FN population move in after subjugation, probably saw a lot of that FN populace move back.


Korra's new episode order is really exciting in that regard; they can expand a bit, and maybe we'll get to see more of the intricacies of 80 years of equal multiculturalism.


----------



## Marco (Jul 3, 2011)

What have we here?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 3, 2011)

_Shit!_ Everyone hide, Marco found us!


----------



## Marco (Jul 3, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> _Shit!_ Everyone hide, Marco found us!


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 3, 2011)

I also just realized that with that "Marco found us" comment, I completely missed a perfect opportunity to segue into a Marco Polo joke.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 3, 2011)

I got him to post here with that set of his. Mission accomplished. Now we kick him out so that our inner circle retains it's exclusivity. /horsegif


----------



## Marco (Jul 3, 2011)

Jove said:


> I got him to post here with that set of his. Mission accomplished. Now we kick him out so that our inner circle retains it's exclusivity. /horsegif



:amazed


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 3, 2011)

That's a pretty set


----------



## Burke (Jul 3, 2011)

Jove said:


> I got him to post here with that set of his. Mission accomplished. Now we kick him out so that our inner circle retains it's exclusivity. /horsegif





Marco said:


> :amazed


----------



## Gunners (Jul 3, 2011)

Wait is it 26 episodes instead of 12?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 3, 2011)

Yep. Nick ordered an additional 14 episodes.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 4, 2011)

Marco said:


> :amazed




-..



And yeah, with 26 episodes... Grimm really touched upon what will hopefully be a major topic, considering that Republic City is a multi-element town. How did the world react to the intermingling; there's no way the segregation of tradition was restored, or even that people wanted it.


----------



## Burke (Jul 4, 2011)

A major plot point i assumes
-..


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 7, 2011)

News from the Track Team:



> Hey guys. Great news! We'll be doing TWO panels at Comic Con this year! A very cool BMI panel called 'Character of Music' on 7/21 at 2:30 in room 6A and a dedicated 'Legend of Korra' panel on 7/23 4pm in room 6BCF.
> 
> ATLA creators Bryan Konietzko and Mike Dimartino will be at both panels!


----------



## Burke (Jul 7, 2011)

Its official, they have mastered the art of being in two places at once.

In other news!
JeffPalmer, the youtube guy, not the porn star, has started back up, this time with TLOK news. If you remember i posted a few of his videos back when we were excited to see how this new live action avatar movie would turn out. 

But anyways, the second thing he is doing is turning his viewers on to this cool new french cartoon called Wakfu, named after and loosely based on the MMO by the same name.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N3xiJ-mdcc&feature=feedu[/YOUTUBE]

Its got a unique animation style which i admire, and after looking into it, some of its characters are the same "types" of characters that we know from avatar. Including the free spirited 12 year old hero, 13 year old heroine he falls for, and the 16 year old comic relief yet wants to show his strength character. 
Now i gotta say, This was posted in the BH (it's not inappropriate or anything)


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 7, 2011)

> Hey guys. Great news! We'll be doing TWO panels at Comic Con this year! A very cool BMI panel called 'Character of Music' on 7/21 at 2:30 in room 6A and a dedicated 'Legend of Korra' panel on 7/23 4pm in room 6BCF.
> 
> ATLA creators Bryan Konietzko and Mike Dimartino will be at both panels!


I believe a "Fuck Yeah!" is in order.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 7, 2011)

It is indeed.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 7, 2011)

I see Wang Fire and Avatar state


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 8, 2011)

Hmmm...


The Lost Adventures comic should come out July 13, but you can order it on Amazon. Amazon lists it's release date as July 5.


Oh well, I ordered mine.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 9, 2011)

What's the comic supposed to cover Jove?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 9, 2011)

Whatever you set it on.

_BaDum tsshh!_


----------



## Jena (Jul 9, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Whatever you set it on.
> 
> _BaDum tsshh!_



Terrible, terrible. 



The comic is supposed to cover the events between A:tla and Korra, right?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 9, 2011)

No, not this one. This a collection of comics from Nick Mag, as well as a number of unpublished ones. I believe these all take place within the A:tLA timeframe. But it should contain such classics as the Bumi v. Toph comic and the Zuko v. Sokka comic. I'm not sure if the DVD comics are included.

They were made by staff members, including artists, directors, and, most importantly, staff writers like Joshua Hamilton and Katie Matilla. It's safe in assuming that they are almost certainly canon.

The post-War comics will come out early next year as a series of small paperback graphic novels.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 9, 2011)

Those are what I'm waiting for.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 9, 2011)

Being that Azula could produce blue flames, what possibility is there that they may be a character in the new series who can produce flames of other colors, such as green, violet, or even black? I would find that to be very interesting, indeed. Or would it be better to have Azula as the only character in the series who can produce flames of a color other than the standard red-orange?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 9, 2011)

I thought her flames were blue because blue fire is hotter than red fire. The next hottest being green, and then white if memory serves.


----------



## Jena (Jul 9, 2011)

^That's what I assumed as well...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 10, 2011)

Her flames were blue because her name is Azula and it provided a unique character trait. So I wouldn't say it's _impossible_, but it would have to be the right situation. Mike and Bryan wouldn't force it.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Being that Azula could produce blue flames, what possibility is there that they may be a character in the new series who can produce flames of other colors, such as green, violet, or even black? I would find that to be very interesting, indeed. Or would it be better to have Azula as the only character in the series who can produce flames of a color other than the standard red-orange?



Black isn't a color fire can be. And just from normal combustion alone, neither is violet or green.  Don't get me wrong, fire can be violet or green, but that color change depends on the fuel source, not the intensity of the flames.  Under the normal spectrum (meaning the color is being produced by the flames intensity and not it's fuel source), from cooler to hotter, the color of fire goes; Red, orange, white, blue.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 10, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Black isn't a color fire can be. And just from normal combustion alone, neither is violet or green.  Don't get me wrong, fire can be violet or green, but that color change depends on the fuel source, not the intensity of the flames.  Under the normal spectrum (meaning the color is being produced by the flames intensity and not it's fuel source), from cooler to hotter, the color of fire goes; Red, orange, white, blue.



Yes, that is true, but while bending does have rules by which it functions, it is clearly a supernatural ability that does not obey the normal laws of physics, so I thought that virtually any color would be possible when using it.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 10, 2011)

[See: The Firebending Masters]

Our Lords Ran and Shaw could teach you people a few things.


----------



## Glued (Jul 10, 2011)

I want only one thing from Legend of Korra.

"Blood for the blood God, Blood for the Blood God, Blood for the Blood God.

More Sacrifices, More Death, More Glorious Carnage!!!"

[Youtube]ZAfPGgzcOVY[/Youtube]


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 10, 2011)

Me, too; I need to feel like the stakes are higher.


----------



## Glued (Jul 10, 2011)

Combustion Man and Zhaio, the ony men with names that died on-screen. Let us never forget their courage.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 10, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I thought her flames were blue because blue fire is hotter than red fire. The next hottest being green, and then white if memory serves.



I thought this as well. Well...I remember hearing in the show that it was something her grandfather (Or was it her father?) could do and that it was hotter. 

Looks like I have to rewatch. Again.


----------



## Wan (Jul 10, 2011)

Nah, blue flames was an Azula-only thing, and never explained.  It was only mentioned once, by Katara, as something out of the ordinary.


----------



## Koi (Jul 12, 2011)

Artbook says they're blue to show that her flames burn hotter than is typical for firebenders-- a reference to her skill and personality, I believe.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 12, 2011)

Didn't I just cover this whole "color of fire thin"?  I'm not just talking out of my butt here.  This is factual information _you can actually look up!_   The color of fire in accordance to it's heat isn't some kind of otherworldly mystery. This is factual information that doesn't need to be debated upon as though it were some unknown philosophical quandary.  Here, I'll quote myself again.  



> Black isn't a color fire can be.  And just from normal combustion alone, neither is violet or green. Don't get me wrong, fire can be violet or green, but that color change depends on the fuel source, not the intensity of the flames. Under the normal spectrum (meaning the color is being produced by the flames intensity and not it's fuel source), from cooler to hotter, the color of fire goes; Red, orange, white, blue.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 12, 2011)

Then I'll quote myself: 





> [See: The Firebending Masters]
> 
> Our Lords Ran and Shaw could teach you people a few things.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 12, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> The color of fire in accordance to it's heat isn't some kind of otherworldly mystery.



You mean, in real life or the otherwordly show we're debating? 

A Firebender could be considered a fuel source, no?


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 12, 2011)

Jove said:


> You mean, in real life or the otherwordly show we're debating?
> 
> A Firebender could be considered a fuel source, no?



Firebenders may not obey the laws of thermodynamics, but they do stay faithful to just about everything else.
Firebenders do not generate fire from combustion, they make fire out of heating air. Hiperheated air = plasma = flames.
Ergo, the color of the flame is directly reliant on heat, not fuel.
Note that firebenders get neutered when heat sources are cut off (freezer)
Notice how there's no smoke (CO2) that comes out of firebending itself but from the things fire benders aim their fire at.
Notice how they manipulate electricity generation by fucking with air heat.



That is all


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 12, 2011)

Sorry, it was late and I've been spending way too much time in the debate threads lately.  I'll let myself out.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 12, 2011)

Well, I'm an OBDer so I need to step in


----------



## Burke (Jul 12, 2011)

Yeah Jove, did you ever consider _that_?
:jove


----------



## Kisame (Jul 12, 2011)

I have a crush on Katara.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 12, 2011)

I have a crush on Appa.


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 12, 2011)

I have a crush on Guru Pathik.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 12, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> Firebenders may not obey the laws of thermodynamics, but they do stay faithful to just about everything else.
> Firebenders do not generate fire from combustion, they make fire out of heating air. Hiperheated air = plasma = flames.
> Ergo, the color of the flame is directly reliant on heat, not fuel.
> Note that firebenders get neutered when heat sources are cut off (freezer)
> ...




Oh great, OBD hoopla in the Avatar thread. 

Go ahead, source me, beyond OBD conjecture, on firebending being the heating of air.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 12, 2011)

I've a question: Why is this thread named after book three? The threads for books one and two are never posted in, and the discussions in this thread exceed that of simply the third season.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 12, 2011)

There are no book-related threads.

When mbxx decided that he was going to delete any threads over 10000 posts without telling us, we formed a union to stop him. It was then up to us to split the threads so that they were under the 10,000 threshold.

The thread was gigantic at that point (well over 1000 pages), so I split it up into three sections, based on content:

Thread # 1: Debut to the airing of the Finale

Thread #2: The reactions to the Finale to the day before the first Korra promotion image was released.

Thread #3: The release of the Korra image to present day.

The naming was just thematic.


----------



## Burke (Jul 12, 2011)

Thread #2, also known as "The Great Depression"


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 12, 2011)

There was a little Joving with the titles.

If you catch my drift.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 12, 2011)

On the possibility of  above and beyond fiction. 



Shark said:


> I have a crush on Katara.



 



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I have a crush on Appa.







narutoguy03 said:


> I have a crush on Guru Pathik.










AND...
​
  let's not mess with perfection.




Koi said:


> *Artbook* says they're blue to show that her flames burn hotter than is typical for firebenders-- a reference to her skill and personality, I believe.



The artbook - worth having?  Pencil drawings and cells?  Really good schtuff?  Anyone?


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 12, 2011)

Our love is real.

This is real, raw emotion, and nothing say will change anything.

We are in _love._


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 12, 2011)

I was watching random episodes last night and decided on the last one. I have a question I was hoping someone could answer?

When the Firelord is beating Aang against the rocks with his fire blasts (while he's in the rock shell) and manages to blow the shell up, Aang hits his back against the rock which turns him into his Avatar State.

Does this mean that because Azula struck Aang with her lightning when he was releasing his last Chakra he couldn't get into the Avatar State? And that hitting that mark made it so he could?  Or could he have gone into the Avatar State at any moment and just decided against it...?

*If I wasn't clear, I'll try to reform my post.*


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 12, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> The artbook - worth having?  Pencil drawings and cells?  Really good schtuff?  Anyone?



Yeah it's fantastic, I bought it last year. It should be either in it's 4th or 5th printing now. 
Avatar used digital ink and paint. Cells from the show would be cool to own if they existed.


----------



## Jena (Jul 12, 2011)

Artbook is _ definitely_ worth the money. Lots of pretty pictures and fun facts.

Easily the best thing I've bought this whole year.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 12, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I was watching random episodes last night and decided on the last one. I have a question I was hoping someone could answer?
> 
> When the Firelord is beating Aang against the rocks with his fire blasts (while he's in the rock shell) and manages to blow the shell up, Aang hits his back against the rock which turns him into his Avatar State.
> 
> ...



I'm fairly certain that was explained directly in the show; she blocked his chakra flow so he could not access the avatar state.

The deux ex machina of the finale was Firelord (excuse me, Phoenix King) Ozai accidentally hitting him against that conveniently placed rock and allowing him to achieve the Avatar state.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 12, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm fairly certain that was explained directly in the show; she blocked his chakra flow so he could not access the avatar state.
> 
> The deux ex machina of the finale was Firelord (excuse me, Phoenix King) Ozai accidentally hitting him against that conveniently placed rock and allowing him to achieve the Avatar state.



Yes, his chakra was blocked, but he unlocked it right before he was struck, didn't he? If not, that episode certainly painted it as if he achieved it before being struck. xD

And thanks! I was a little confused when I had first seen the episode. I was like "Go Avatar Aang!" from the very start


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 12, 2011)

Jena said:


> Artbook is _ definitely_ worth the money. Lots of pretty pictures and fun facts.
> 
> Easily the best thing I've bought this whole year.





Superstarseven said:


> Yeah it's fantastic, I bought it last year. It should be either in it's 4th or 5th printing now.
> *Avatar used digital ink and paint. Cells from the show would be cool to own if they existed.*



Thanks for the heads up guys. *wishlist*  

Wow I didn't understand (but in retrospect it makes sense) that this is all digital now.  I guess I got thrown off from a few things. I saw one of the artists on Nick draw Katara by hand (on paper) in a demo.  Also, some scenes look a little different.  For instance, the entire scene as the gaang makes their way into the Earth Kingdom palace in _The Earth King_ looked different.  And in one of my favorite scenes from _Sozin's Comet_, the animation with the airships lifting off looked badass somewhat different as well.

Very cool nevertheless.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 13, 2011)

You know, Qi/Chi can be read as breath...

So the whole air thing isn't too far off from both mysticism and physics...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 13, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> You know, Qi/Chi can be read as breath...
> 
> So the whole air thing isn't too far off from both mysticism and physics...




Could be.

I'm just saying that nothing yet shown precludes Mike and Bryan from using an exotic color if they could find a reasonable way to use it in the narrative.


----------



## Friday (Jul 13, 2011)

To the guy who said he had a crush on Appa: That's really weird. I always emotionally connected with how Aang felt about Appa because he was like my pet. I would be so sad if my husky got lost or got stolen  and my husky is soo cute awww


----------



## Burke (Jul 13, 2011)

I know right, besides, Momo is far more attractive.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 14, 2011)

Bison butt > Momo


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 14, 2011)

What about Hawky...


----------



## Jena (Jul 14, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> What about Hawky...



Hawky transcends sexiness. He _is_ sex itself.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 14, 2011)

Jena said:


> Hawky transcends sexiness. He _is_ sex itself.



 so sexah!

...it begins   And if I'm not mistaken, I thought ReikaiDemon had a Hawky thing going on too.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 14, 2011)

I have an intellectual crush on Hawky.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 14, 2011)

Jove said:


> I have an intellectual crush on Hawky.



 how very decent and highbrow.  Now I'm not suggesting that you're being untruthful, but your response does beg the question...you're not the least bit attracted to Hawky's physical self?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 14, 2011)

Hawky's physical self is no match for his metaphysical self.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 15, 2011)

^ You have passed the test.  Remove your hand from the box, young human.  

...Jena - I'm sorry, but it's the _gom jabbar_ for you.


----------



## Jena (Jul 15, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> ^ You have passed the test.  Remove your hand from the box, young human.
> 
> ...Jena - I'm sorry, but it's the _gom jabbar_ for you.


----------



## Burke (Jul 15, 2011)

hmm, gom jabbar meant something different back in my day


----------



## Jena (Jul 16, 2011)

Isn't that the ring-thing from Dune?

I only saw that movie like once when I was 5 because I have no appreciation for fine film.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 16, 2011)

N??ps said:


> hmm, gom jabbar meant something different back in my day



 ...alright what did I step in this time? 



Jena said:


> Isn't that the ring-thing from Dune?
> 
> I only saw that movie like once when I was 5 because I have no appreciation for fine film.



Sorry, that was kind of random.  Regarding the film - I think the novel was well received (it won both a Hugo and Nebula award), but the film bombed.


----------



## Friday (Jul 16, 2011)

Any new news as of the last five or so months.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 17, 2011)

No, dude. Why do you think we're prepping ourselves for Comic-Con next week?


----------



## Friday (Jul 17, 2011)

I'll check back next week then


----------



## Stunna (Jul 18, 2011)

Currently rewatching this show after having not seen it in months.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 18, 2011)

The Onion AV guy has been moving along with the reviews., He was pretty harsh on The Great Divide, but his combined analysis of The Waterbending Scroll and Jet really made me evaluate those episodes again. excellent stuff.


----------



## Burke (Jul 18, 2011)

Jove, since when did you undergo a sex and color change operation


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 18, 2011)

This morning. The name change was a surprise. The color change was my own doing.

I'm paprika now.


----------



## Burke (Jul 18, 2011)

But you are all man 

And what about "avatar blue" (im calling copyrights, crayola)


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 18, 2011)

Paprika?  That's...that's mauve


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 18, 2011)

Hex triplet #990044. 


Not affiliated to any nation. I am aligning myself with Ty Lee this time.


----------



## Burke (Jul 18, 2011)

~:|
if anything, make your title "St." instead
do you know how badass that is D:


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 18, 2011)

Check it out, you guys!


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 18, 2011)

BMI? Body Mass Index?





N??ps said:


> if anything, make your title "St." instead


Extenuating circumstances preclude such an outcome.


----------



## Burke (Jul 18, 2011)

Bryan looks like Peter Parker



Dragonus Nesha said:


> Extenuating circumstances preclude such an outcome.



As i forsaw


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 18, 2011)

I am certain that this has been mentioned already, but might Sokka's sword (the one that he forged under Piandao's tutelage) appear or at least be referenced in _The Legend of Korra?_ I would find it to be very unfortunate if such an interesting item simply vanished without a trace.

On that subject, it seemed to me that Sokka never used his sword as a proper sword, the way that someone such as Kenshin from _Rurouni Kenshin_ would; he seemed to swing it randomly or haphazardly, but never in a manner that was practical or properly offensive, in my mind. Does anyone else here have a similar opinion on that subject?


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 18, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On that subject, it seemed to me that Sokka never used his sword as a proper sword, the way that someone such as Kenshin from _Rurouni Kenshin_ would; he seemed to swing it randomly or haphazardly, but never in a manner that was practical or properly offensive, in my mind. Does anyone else here have a similar opinion on that subject?



I have to agree with this. Sokka never really seemed to get a handle on his sword. However, Piandao seemed to trust Sokka's own resourcefulness and versatility in using it. Water is the element of change; Sokka adapts to the situation and the sword...well...Sokka tends to use it to hack and slash, mainly. I don't think he's familiar with the "traditional" mechanics of a Fire Nation sword.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 19, 2011)

He had a day's worth of training, who'd expect him to properly utilize it. That's one complaint about the show I have: I think some concepts are grasped by the character's too quickly. The basics of an element are often mastered in an episode or two.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 19, 2011)

I wondered myself why the characters took to bending/sword training so easily. The thing with Sokka is that I think he could have taken to fighting with swords quite easily if he had one, which he did not until Book 3. He's shown to be proficient with Boomerang and his other weapon. 

Katara, like Azula, is a prodigy. She picks up fast on waterbending moves, but yeah, I agree, mastery is quite a different level. 

Toph...she's a Master. She's been doing it consciously her entire life, continues to listen and wait and learn.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 19, 2011)

Personally, I thought that both Appa and Momo showed an even greater aptitude and skill with the blade.   The greatest example of swordsmanship recorded in the series is demonstrated between the two in _Nightmares and Daydreams_.


----------



## Burke (Jul 19, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> Personally, I thought that both Appa and Momo showed an even greater aptitude and skill with the blade.   The greatest example of swordsmanship recorded in the series is demonstrated between the two in _Nightmares and Daydreams_.



Exactly, i cant believe that they learned and apparently mastered swordsmanship to such a degree in such a short time.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 19, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Exactly, i cant believe that they learned and apparently mastered swordsmanship to such a degree in such a short time.



Extraordinary


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 19, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Exactly, i cant believe that they learned and apparently mastered swordsmanship to such a degree in such a short time.



They did not master swordmanship; that was merely an exhaustion-induced hallucination of Aang's.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 19, 2011)

He was being sarcastic.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> They did not master swordmanship; that was merely an exhaustion-induced hallucination of Aang's.



Or perhaps it was Aang's condition which allow him to see Appa and Momo's true selves.   Many strange things happened in those days, and we may never be able to truly divine between reality and hallucination.  


...I believe they are great warriors


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 19, 2011)

Stunna said:


> He was being sarcastic.



I know that, but I strongly dislike sarcasm or the use thereof, so I was expressing that opinion in my previous post.



Soul Assassin said:


> Or perhaps it was Aang's condition which allow him to see Appa and Momo's true selves. Many strange things happened in those days, and we may never be able to truly divine between reality and hallucination.



I cannot argue with that; you have a very good point there.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I know that, but I strongly dislike sarcasm or the use thereof, so I was expressing that opinion in my previous post.
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot argue with that; you have a very good point there.




No no - it was a complete load of bollocks; you had it right the first time. We were screwing around. If you're ever in doubt about this in the future, it's pretty much a safe bet that I'm kidding around when I post.


----------



## Burke (Jul 19, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> No no - it was a complete load of bollocks; you had it right the first time. We were screwing around. If you're ever in doubt about this in the future, it's pretty much a safe bet that I'm kidding around when I post.



Except now, soul is super srs.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 19, 2011)

Aang didn't hallucinate a goddamn thing. He was just sleepy; all of that actually happened.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 19, 2011)

Okay, why the hell did that demon guy bring up Ruroni Kenshin?


----------



## Jena (Jul 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> They did not master swordmanship; that was merely an exhaustion-induced hallucination of Aang's.



It was no such thing. 

It totally happened!!!!!


P.S. Did you know that momo's design for that scene was inspired by Miyamoto Usagi? 

Derp derp duh derp!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 19, 2011)

Honestly, I'm surprised why I don't find this guy funny with how serious he is 

But rather pathetic and derivative instead


----------



## Jena (Jul 19, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Honestly, I'm surprised why I don't find this guy funny with how serious he is
> 
> But rather pathetic and derivative instead



That better be directed at a certain dragon and not me. 
I'm just precious. 

I used to care, but then I learned to stop worrying and love the idiot.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 19, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Except now, soul is super srs.



Well - even that's somewhat of a difficult issue.  If I say I'm kidding in most of my posts how can one be certain if that post is to be taken seriously? 

And of course by saying this I mean ~



*Spoiler*: __ 






Greatest swordsmen eva! 


​


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 19, 2011)

Jena said:


> That better be directed at a certain dragon and not me.
> I'm just precious.
> 
> I used to care, but then I learned to stop worrying and love the idiot.


Yeah, that DDJ guy.

He makes my precious bodily fluids sad


----------



## Noah (Jul 19, 2011)

It's like I'm having deja vu! Only better, because this has actually already happened before!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 19, 2011)

It has, but we now have the added element of Rekky being totally baffled by the whole thing. Before it was just attack dog Rekky... now it has that extra layer of existentialism.


I am super excited for SDCC. Finally, after a very long few years, I can scour ebay for rare merch. There better be some, dammit.


----------



## Burke (Jul 19, 2011)

It might just cost less to go to SDCC itself.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 19, 2011)

N??ps said:


> It might just cost less to go to SDCC itself.



It's always been reasonable thus far. Even the poster signed by Mike and Bryan was pretty cheap, less than $20.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 20, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Okay, why the hell did that demon guy bring up Ruroni Kenshin?



Because I was saying that Sokka's swordsmanship was not even close to Kenshin's swordsmanship, and lamenting that fact.



ReikaiDemon said:


> Honestly, I'm surprised why I don't find this guy funny with how serious he is
> 
> But rather pathetic and derivative instead





ReikaiDemon said:


> Yeah, that DDJ guy.
> 
> He makes my precious bodily fluids sad



What have I ever done to you? I have no quarrel with you, good sir, yet you seem to have one with me. I would like to discuss this subject in a mature and intelligent manner with you, if you shall agree to do the same thing.



Jena said:


> I used to care, but then I learned to stop worrying and love the idiot.



I take great offense to being called an "idiot:" I always had straight A's from first through twelfth grade; I graduated from my college with highest honors; on an intelligence test, I scored above average (I cannot recall my exact score, but I was told that it was very high, although not quite genius-level); I have passed the CompTIA A+ exam and am now studying for the CompTIA network+ exam; and I give mt best effort to stay informed of current events and possess random facts and trivia about a variety of subjects, so, forgive me for boasting, but I believe myself to be very intelligent. If you are commenting on my social skills, however, then I have no problem with admitting that I am not as skilled as other people, but I am far better than I was years ago. When I was younger, my social skills were atrocious, but I have made great progress to reach the point where I am now.


----------



## Jena (Jul 20, 2011)

Thrilling. We're all very happy for you and your alleged progress.


Anyway, I may have asked this already, but is anyone in here planning on going to Comic Con? I'm sure the internet will be all a dither with Avatar updates the next day after CC, but it would be nice to hear a first-hand account.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 20, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> It has, but we now have the added element of Rekky being totally baffled by the whole thing. Before it was just attack dog Rekky... now it has that extra layer of existentialism.
> 
> 
> I am super excited for SDCC. Finally, after a very long few years, I can scour ebay for rare merch. There better be some, dammit.


Attack dog?...What was I like with this guy before my treatment?


----------



## Noah (Jul 20, 2011)

Vicious. 'Twas quite entertaining.

Personally, I'm hoping he starts working pirate speak in with his Ye Olde mannerisms. 

As far as SDCC goes, from what I've heard it's become a giant mess in the last 6 years or so. Instead of it being a con for comic fans, it's turned into an over-populated mess that just caters to Hollywood adaptations. Aside from a few things each year, I'm never really too excited about it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 20, 2011)

I find the San Diego Comic Conference to be somewhat fascinating, and would possibly be interested in attending it, but I am far too busy with school currently, I live too far away from San Diego, and I have very little money, as well. Perhaps in the future, I may consider attending it, if I have more money, more free time, and if it is sufficiently interesting. For those users here who do attend the event, I would be very interested in hearing about your experience at it.


----------



## Burke (Jul 20, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Attack dog?...What was I like with this guy before my treatment?



you were best friends


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 20, 2011)

Noah said:


> Vicious. 'Twas quite entertaining.
> 
> Personally, I'm hoping he starts working pirate speak in with his Ye Olde mannerisms.
> 
> As far as SDCC goes, from what I've heard it's become a giant mess in the last 6 years or so. Instead of it being a con for comic fans, it's turned into an over-populated mess that just caters to Hollywood adaptations. Aside from a few things each year, I'm never really too excited about it.



Has it? Even so, you only have to go to the panels that you are interested in. 



ReikaiDemon said:


> Attack dog?...What was I like with this guy before my treatment?



I had to separate you many times. You were pretty relentless. It was pretty incredible.


----------



## Wan (Jul 20, 2011)

So, I just bought "The Lost Adventures" collection of comic book short stories, some of which had been published previously (like the comics set between Books 2 and 3 that were in the all-Avatar Nickmag).  Some of the new ones are pretty interesting -- there's more detail given about how the Airbenders were hunted down, there's (mostly comedic) "duels" between Zuko & Sokka and Toph & Bumi, and there's a story about a time that Combustion Man attacked Aang and Sokka on a train.

Interesting fact:  Zuko started training with Master Piandao when he was a kid!


----------



## Noah (Jul 20, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Has it? Even so, you only have to go to the panels that you are interested in.



That's true, but it still makes for an overcrowded mess. I went to Anime North in Toronto this year and that was packed. I waited in line for an hour and a half(only 150 were seated, but 500 people were in line) for a Scott Pilgrim panel. If Brian Lee O'Malley had been there, I could understand, but it was literally just three kids talking about their favorite parts in the movie and how it matched with the comics.

AN supposedly had 24,000 people there. If SDCC can fit much more than that, I probably wouldn't bother unless I lived in San Diego.


----------



## Koi (Jul 20, 2011)

Wait, is the Avatar panel in THIS ComicCon or the next one?  I always forget that there's two.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 20, 2011)

This one:


Thursday, July 21
2:30-3:30 PM
*The Character of Music* with BMI and White Bear PR

Composer and executive producer teams discuss the dynamics of music in film and television. Dan Licht and Sara Colleton (Dexter), *Jeremy Zuckerman, Benjamin Wynn, and Bryan Konietzko, Michael Dante DiMartino (Avatar the Last Airbender)*, and Noah Sorota and Mark Verheiden (Falling Skies) discuss their working relationship, how music plays a character in their stories, and the intense process of scoring their projects. Moderated by BMI's director of film & TV Relations Anne Cecere. Attendees will get a sneak peek into their work and receive fun giveaways. Room 6A 



And the big one:

Saturday, July 23
4:00-5:00 PM
*Finally! Nickelodeon: The Last Airbender: Legend of Korra: Exclusive First Look *

Creator team Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino, co-executive producer Joaquim Dos Santos, supervising producer Ki-Hyun Ryu, and composing team Ben Wynn and Jeremy Zuckerman give an exclusive sneak peek at the continuation of this element-bending saga. Moderated by Megan Casey, executive in charge for Nickelodeon. Room 6BCF


----------



## Koi (Jul 21, 2011)

Man, sometimes I hate being an east-coaster. 8C


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

We'll make it. Just do what I'm going to do. Stay up as late as possible Friday, then sleep as long as you possibly can.

I plan to stay up until 9:30 AM Saturday morning and sleep until 8:15 PM that night. when I wake up, the news should just start trickling in.


----------



## Wan (Jul 21, 2011)

:33 I love The Track Team.  Those guys did some top-notch work on Avatar.  Here are some of my favorite tracks (that have been released online.  I want an official soundtrack CD, damnit!)












The "Agni Kai" track, played during Zuko and Zhao's first Agni Kai.  I have no idea why this track disappeared after book 1, it was so awesome. 












"Leaves From The Vine", the song Iroh sings in honor of his fallen son.  












"Reconciliation", when Zuko reunites with Iroh and begs for his forgiveness.  Iroh only says that he was never angry with Zuko, only afraid he'd lost his way. Beautiful. 

And of course












"The Last Agni Kai", played during Zuko and Azula's duel.  Honestly I would have been thrilled if a reprise of the original "Agni Kai" track had been played, but then we wouldn't have this PHENOMENAL track. :33

I could go on and on, The Track Team just made incredible music.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

I was always partial to:

[YOUTUBE]14453JmowR0[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]40lWnTM7Bck[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]vWihpEtNj2o[/YOUTUBE]

And my absolute favorite:

[YOUTUBE]ExwgzjmbQT8[/YOUTUBE]


The layering of counter-melodies. 


Some Youtube guy is hawking an OST comp, but it's not as good as the one I curated.


----------



## Wan (Jul 21, 2011)

All fantastic tracks as well. :33


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

I almost lament that they will move closer to modernity with the new series. 

But it's going to be phenomenal, and as proof I offer the entirety of The Headband. There's this one jazzy cue as Aang tries to fit in with the Fire market crowd that is transcendent.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

My favorite one is definitely the Agni Kai theme. Every single time it comes on it makes me want to jump up and start firebending. It's why Zuko vs. Zhao Round 1 is one of my favorite fights.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

Funny, though, because that cue actually pops up quite a bit in the early episodes, if you listen closely. But it's eternally cleaved to that one majestic scene. 

I've always been awestruck by how the Track Team re-imagines their own work. The numerous variations on the Main Theme (such as, for instance, the Final Blow, which for years dominated my last.fm), the way they would exploit certain character cues (like how they've used the Dai Li's theme in incredibly subtle ways to foreshadow their appearances)... they are amazing.

It kills me that I can't be at SDCC right today to hear them on that panel. Is there something preventing SDCC from streaming panels? I'd gladly pay to stream the two Avatar-related ones this year, even if it meant buying a huge package deal.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 21, 2011)

Ah, this is such a great series. (Yes, I'm utterly late to the party.) 

In terms of music, my favourite from the series was in this scene.

What are your favourite episodes, people? (I would go back through the thread and check for opinions on this, but too many pages to wade through, eek.)


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

Oh come on DB. You've gotta read THE POST, my 15,000 word ranking of every episode I made to commenorate my 1000th post in the Avatar thread. 


Part 1: 
Part 2: 
Part 3: 
Part 4: 
Part 5: 
Part 6: 
Part 7: 
Part 8: 
Part 9: 
Part 10: 
Part 11: 


The List Itself:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Unrated: The Beach
60: The Painted Lady
59. The King of Omashu
58. The Waterbending Scroll
57. The Awakening
56. The Great Divide
55. Avatar Day
54. The Headband
53. The Fortuneteller
52. Return to Omashu
51. The Western Air Temple
50. The Northern Air Temple
49. The Boy in the Iceberg
48. The Southern Raiders
47. The Runaway
46. Imprisoned
45. The Avatar Returns
44. The Firebending Masters
43. Bitter Work
42. The Avatar and the Firelord
41. The Tales of Ba Sing Se
40. The Puppetmaster
39. Nightmares and Daydreams
38. Jet
37. The Ember Island Players
36. The Warriors of Kyoshi
35.5 The Debut (The Boy in the Iceberg and The Avatar Returns)
35. The Library
34. Appa’s Lost Days
33. The Spirit World (Winter Solstice, Part 1)
32. The Earth King
31. The Waterbending Master
30. The Boiling Rock, Part 1
29. The Boiling Rock, Part 2
28. The Desert
27. The Serpent’s Pass
26. The Day of Black Sun, Part 1
25. The Day of Black Sun, Part 2
24. The Swamp
23. Bato of the Water Tribe
22. The Cave of Two Lovers
21. Sozin’s Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King
20. The Southern Air Temple
19. The Deserter
18. The Blind Bandit
17. Lake Laogai
16. The Avatar State
15. Siege of the North, Part 1
14. The Guru
13. Avatar Roku (Winter Solstice, Part 2)
12. The Chase
11. Sozin’s Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters
10. Sokka’s Master
9. The Blue Spirit
8. The Storm
7. Sozin’s Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno
6. The Drill
5. Sozin’s Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang
4. Siege of the North, Part 2
3.5. Siege of the North
3. Zuko Alone
2.5: The Book 2 Finale (The Guru and The Crossroads of Destiny)
2. City of Walls and Secrets
1. The Crossroads of Destiny
0. Sozin’s Comet (Sozin’s Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King, Sozin’s Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters, Sozin’s Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno, and Sozin’s 






Though I gotta say, it _has_ been two years since I made this... maybe it's time to make it all over again!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

Geez, you sure don't care for 'The Beach', lol. I like that episode, save for the exposition fest at the end.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 21, 2011)

Damn, Jove, haha. I'm going to read through that, sweet. 

And I also like _The Beach_...in fact it's actually one of my favourites! Normally I don't like that sort of thing, but it was amusingly goofy and it's interesting to see those four characters together and the dynamic between them, even though it was cursed with the feel of an 'exposition fest', as Stunna points out. 

_Avatar_ is one of those rare shows where I actually 'clicked' with the humour...that rarely ever happens to me, and I normally only enjoy the more serious, sombre elements, but for some reason this series had me laughing constantly.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

Now I want to make a list like that! I'll just have to wait until Nickelodeon starts the series over again.


----------



## Jena (Jul 21, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Oh come on DB. You've gotta read THE POST, my 15,000 word ranking of every episode I made to commenorate my 1000th post in the Avatar thread.
> 
> 
> Part 1:
> ...



You must have a lot of free time on your hands. 
But seriously, this is cool. I'll definitely read it later!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

argh...too many episodes...argh

I give up already. 

I guess I'll just resume loving them all


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 21, 2011)

Stunna said:


> argh...too many episodes...argh
> 
> I give up already.
> 
> I guess I'll just resume loving them all



There's only 60-ish episodes.

It won't take that long.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

No, I mean to put them in order from favorite to least favorite. I'm re-watching regardless.


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 21, 2011)

Stunna said:


> No, I mean to put them in order from favorite to least favorite. I'm re-watching regardless.



Oh.

But couldn't you make the list as you watch?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm too indecisive. But I suppose I can try.


----------



## Jena (Jul 21, 2011)

I couldn't list them 
Unless we were going to rank by most-seen episodes, in which case the one where they meet Toph, the pilot, and the Ember Island Players are at the top.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 21, 2011)

Ah, Toph. It's because I saw her that I got into Avatar: The Last Airbender. She's my most favorite character there!


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 21, 2011)

Jena said:


> the Ember Island Players are at the top.



This was hilarious. 

I can't rank episodes in order either (too damned difficult). My favourites in general are probably: _Jet, The Storm, The Blue Spirit, The Cave of Two Lovers, Zuko Alone, The Library, The Desert_, Iroh?s story in _Tales of Ba Sing Se, The Southern Raiders_ and _The Ember Island Players_.

(And yes, _The Beach_ )

There are plenty of other good episodes, so I've probably forgotten a few. (I also really liked the paranoia and eeriness in _City of Walls and Secrets_.)


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

I have a good topic question: What would you do differently to make a better live-action movie? I'll go ahead and save people the trouble of saying not to white-wash.


----------



## Jena (Jul 21, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I have a good topic question: What would you do differently to make a better live-action movie? I'll go ahead and save people the trouble of saying not to white-wash.



Start by making it cartoon instead of live action. 

If that isn't an option, get rid of whitewashing (wait, you already said that) make the movie an installment, not a summary. I hate to cite the Naruto movies as a positive example, but something more similar to them would be better. The Kataang is already established, and they have to go on a quest. So, basically, just a long episode.

Trying to adapt something like Avatar that is so long into a movie is probably not going to work out. There's no way to do it unless you completely skim over like 80% of the episodes. Which is, IMO, annoying. So I'd rather have a filler-tastic adventure. If anyone could pull it off, it'd be Mike and Bryan.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

The way I would handle covering the episodes is by starting with running time. I would make the first one around two, maybe two and a half hours; combining some episodes. For example, off the top of my head, it'd be easy to combine the episodes "The Warriors of Kyoshi" and "The King of Omashu" by stationing the Kyoshi Warriors in Omashu on a mission of some sort. All of Book One would be covered in the first movie, and then Book Two would be broken up into two parts, each around two hours as well. Same with Book Three, so there would be five movies total by the end.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

There are 61 episodes, each 24 minutes long. Thus, if you watched them all back-to-back without any breaks, it would take you 1 day (and 24 minutes). I've always wanted to try this... the Avatar Challenge.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2011)

Noops, stop messing with me, I have no sympathy for people who try to fuck with my head, I'm vulnerable and prefer if you DIDN'T try to confuse or implant false memories in my head.

You dick.


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Oh come on DB. You've gotta read THE POST, my 15,000 word ranking of every episode I made to commenorate my 1000th post in the Avatar thread.
> 
> 
> Part 1:
> ...



named by me, i hold copyrights to "The Post"



ReikaiDemon said:


> Noops, stop messing with me, I have no sympathy for people who try to fuck with my head, I'm vulnerable and prefer if you DIDN'T try to confuse or implant false memories in my head.
> 
> You dick.



noted


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

OH MY GOD THEY'RE SELLING THESE PRINTS AT SDCC.

THEY'RE BEING SOLD AT THE NICK BOOTH, THIS IS TOTALLY LEGIT!


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

its a fucking polar bear dog
ITS A DOG
AND A POLAR BEAR
_AND SHES FUCKING RIDING IT_


----------



## Iria (Jul 21, 2011)

Wow that is gorgeous. 

And that animal looks awesome. Like a giant polar bear dog thingy


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

OMG, I can't believe we're already getting major news. Korra's animal companion! 


WhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsnameWhatsitsname


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm in love. I want one.


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> OH MY GOD THEY'RE SELLING THESE PRINTS AT SDCC.
> 
> THEY'RE BEING SOLD AT THE NICK BOOTH, THIS IS TOTALLY LEGIT!



bottom page'd


----------



## Jena (Jul 21, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> OH MY GOD THEY'RE SELLING THESE PRINTS AT SDCC.
> 
> THEY'RE BEING SOLD AT THE NICK BOOTH, THIS IS TOTALLY LEGIT!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

That picture is so tight. Sigged.


----------



## Wan (Jul 21, 2011)




----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

They only made 50 of these prints. I will pay whatever is necessary to get one if someone puts one up for auction on ebay. I will go to a very dark place to make sure I win.


----------



## Noah (Jul 21, 2011)

My pants! They're suddenly so uncomfortably tight! What is happening down ther--oh. Avatar related fan boner. Problem solved.

NEED MORE INFO ON POLARDOG!


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2011)

Oh my gosh! That is so awesome! What is that thing she's riding? I hope its the new Appa to the show! Oh man this show is going to rock pek

I hope higher quality comes out, that would totally make my day :33


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> They only made 50 of these prints. I will pay whatever is necessary to get one if someone puts one up for auction on ebay. I will go to a very dark place to make sure I win.



But Jove, what if the show sucks?

I logged in and noticed that the page count had increased and started reading posts where I left off, I saw your profile pic and thought to myself "hey that's some damn good fanart right there. This is awesome. We're closer to the finish line than we were a year ago but there's still a long way to go. Polar-Bear Dog gets a thumbs up from me. Everyone who bought the Artbook had speculated that he would show up in _Korra_ and most likely be her animal companion. He also looks a ton better than the sketch, the final design looks great.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

What a stoic-looking beast. And such a high level of hybridization; looks like he/she inherited the essence of both animals.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey Jove, check out the new title design for the show.

Source

Rotate for better viewing angle.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

Got it:


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

Another excellent contribution


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

Looks like there's no talking ourselves around it anymore. "The Last Airbender" is not going anywhere.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2011)

Oooh, I can't wait for some trailers. Even a 15 second trailer would be absolutely spectacular! 

I wonder, if this animal is indeed the new Appa, are others going to be riding around with Korra and if so, would this animal be able to carry more than two people? If not, do you guys think its possible any new characters will have their own form of transportation?

Also, the new font is pretty cool looking. But why change it? Is it because of James Cameron?


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2011)

I think it's pretty obvious that people want to hear 2 questions answered during the Q&A session at the end, "What did you guys think of the film?" and "Why the title change from Avatar to The Last Airbender?".




Oh wait and maybe "Will we see Zuko's mom?"


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

Man, this is starting to feel like 2007 again.




Superstarseven said:


> I think it's pretty obvious that people want to hear 2 questions answered during the Q&A session at the end, "What did you guys think of the film?" and "Why the title change from Avatar to The Last Airbender?".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"You guys were always hanging around and talking about M. Night before the film, and since the movie came out, you haven't been seen with him, or even mentioned him by name. Is that a coincidence?"


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

Well in interviews they didnt go past saying "we were not much involved with the making of the film"

To me, that is enough. God knows they were dissapointed in it.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2011)

Sifu Kisu has gone on record to say that he thought the film was terrible and Giancarlo Volpe who was a storyboard artist/director on the series has also expressed his dislike of the film. Probably the two highest profile (so far) people associated with the series that have a negative opinion on the film. 

If Mike and Bryan were to come out with publicly with a positive review, they'd be the nicest people in the world for wanting to spare M. Night's feelings because there's no way they left with a smile on their face after attending the premiere of that movie. This is why I don't expect them to rip on James Cameron over the name fiasco, they really do seem that nice and don't want to start any trouble or flick a lighter onto that bridge.


----------



## Jena (Jul 21, 2011)

Mike and Bryan don't sem like they really want to start fights. They'll probably keep tight-lipped about disappointment with M. Night or Cameron.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2011)

> If Mike and Bryan were to come out with publicly with a positive review, they'd be the nicest people in the world for wanting to spare M. Night's feelings because there's no way they left with a smile on their face after attending the premiere of that movie. This is why I don't expect them to rip on James Cameron over the name fiasco, they really do seem that nice and don't want to start any trouble or flick a lighter onto that bridge.


It would kind of be funny if they made some kind of joke relating to it in Korra though. xD


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

If I was involved in the creation of 'Avatar', I would openly revolt against Shyamalan. There is zero reason why 'The Last Airbender' should have been as bad as it was.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 21, 2011)

Oooohhh, what a lovely polar-bear dog~ I love dogs! 

Love that picture of Korra and her spirit animal companion. I can't wait for The Legend of Korra to air on Nick. 

And hey guys! It's been over a year since that hideous parody of the ATLA movie The Last Airbender was made, and no sequel in sight! HURRAH!!


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Oooohhh, what a lovely polar-bear dog~ I love dogs!
> 
> Love that picture of Korra and her spirit animal companion. I can't wait for The Legend of Korra to air on Nick.
> 
> And hey guys! It's been over a year since that hideous parody of the ATLA movie The Last Airbender was made, and no sequel in sight! HURRAH!!



woah, i just realized. excellent observation


----------



## Wan (Jul 21, 2011)

You know, Korra's polar dog looks a lot like very, very early concept art for Appa, before they swung over to a sea manatee/Catbus inspired look.





Coincidence?  I think NOT. 



Ms. Jove said:


> Looks like there's no talking ourselves around it anymore. "The Last Airbender" is not going anywhere.



  It will always be Avatar: The Legend of Korra in my heart.


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

the best part about it is it really does look like a sort of wild artic dog that could exist


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 21, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> You know, Korra's polar dog looks a lot like very, very early concept art for Appa, *before they swung over to a sea manatee/Catbus inspired look*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Catbus.  Catbus?   that's the best. Perfect description.


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

honestly, that things melting my heart
WHY CANT YOU EXIST


----------



## Wan (Jul 21, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> Catbus.  Catbus?   that's the best. Perfect description.



Well yeah, Miyazaki's works heavily influenced Avatar and I think the creators once mentioned the Catbus as an inspiration for Appa...


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 21, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Well yeah, Miyazaki's works heavily influenced Avatar and I think the creators once mentioned the Catbus as an inspiration for Appa...



I'd no idea: you learn something new everyday


----------



## blakstealth (Jul 21, 2011)

That thing's so pudgy and fluffy looking.


----------



## Wan (Jul 21, 2011)

Makes me want to roll around with it in the snow and rub its belly. :33

But at the same time it's such an..._elegant_ creature.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> It would kind of be funny if they made some kind of joke relating to it in Korra though. xD


I could see it, some sort of Ember Island Play joke, a dispute over titles, and stuff, it would be hilarious


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 21, 2011)

I already like that pobog better than Appa.


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> I already like that pobog better than Appa.



Pobog...
100 internets for you Coteaz


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm getting the Summer-2007 vibe again. A little flutter in my gut. Feels good.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2011)

Definitely an inspiration.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 21, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> I already like that pobog better than Appa.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

It's freaking Appa. They have to work to outdo him.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 21, 2011)

I really hope that it is Korra's animal companion and not just a one-off promotional jig.

That would cut deep.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> I really hope that it is Korra's animal companion and not just a one-off promotional jig.
> 
> That would cut deep.



If it can only seat one person, then it probably won't be her spirit companion, me thinks.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 21, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> If it can only seat one person, then it probably won't be her spirit companion, me thinks.


Does an Avatar animal companion need to be a multi-seater? Appa was and Roku's dragon may have been (can't remember if both he and Sozin rode it simultaneously), but there's no real rule as far as I know.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 21, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> You know, Korra's polar dog looks a lot like very, very early concept art for Appa, before they swung over to a sea manatee/Catbus inspired look.
> 
> 
> /QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Does an Avatar animal companion need to be a multi-seater? Appa was and Roku's dragon may have been (can't remember if both he and Sozin rode it simultaneously), but there's no real rule as far as I know.



I don't think so, but the show has other characters I assume will accompany Korra through her travels.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Does an Avatar animal companion need to be a multi-seater? Appa was and Roku's dragon may have been (can't remember if both he and Sozin rode it simultaneously), but there's no real rule as far as I know.



I thought Korra was travelling alone anyway, so extra room wouldn't be necessary.


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

and who says that this will be an long epic journey like ATLA? Most of the action is taking place in one city


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 21, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I don't think so, but the show has other characters I assume will accompany Korra through her travels.


One solution would be to give them all fuzzy boss critters for their own. 

edit: Also, yeah, they're in a city so it may not be necessary.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 21, 2011)

I very much like that creature atop which Korra is riding in that image; until it has a proper name, I shall likely refer to it as a "bearhound," as that name is cool and interesting to me. If that truly shall be a companion of hers throughout the entire series, I am very glad to see that the new avatar has a carnivore as their animal companion, although the fact that it likely cannot fly shall be a major disadvantage over Appa ability to do so. I hope that any human companions she may gather during the series are soon revealed, as well.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 21, 2011)

Well if she's traveling along then I suppose it is the new Appa. 

I didn't know the story started in the city. I thought she was living with the Water Tribe and would then go to the city... 



Coteaz said:


> One solution would be to give them all fuzzy boss critters for their own.



Maybe, or maybe she'll meet all her friends within the city when she arrives...?


----------



## Glued (Jul 21, 2011)

This does not look tastey at all. 

I'd rather have fried dragon, bison burger or Badgermole soup.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

I hope they come out with some "Expanded Universe" material like 'Star Wars'. Graphic novels and stuff following different characters that fleshes out the 'Avatar' world even more so.


----------



## Glued (Jul 21, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I hope they come out with some "Expanded Universe" material like 'Star Wars'. Graphic novels and stuff following different characters that fleshes out the 'Avatar' world even more so.



I saw an Avatar comic in my local store, it was about the Gaang. I thought about buying it, but I plan on purchasing the Aquaman: Essential and Aquaman: Death of Prince.

I do remember something about an Armadillo beast meeting with Sokka though.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 21, 2011)

Adventures that don't relate to the main characters.


----------



## Glued (Jul 21, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Adventures that don't relate to the main characters.



Aside from the Transformers universe. EUs in general don't work out too well.

I say this due to the fact that current transformers comics continue off the classic g1 cartoons.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 21, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> If it can only seat one person, then it probably won't be her spirit companion, me thinks.


Well, her companions may have to cling uncomfortably close to her...


----------



## Noah (Jul 21, 2011)

Clearly PolarDog (henceforth named Mr Ruffletop) will be a sled dogbear, and will drag an epic sled for the Korrang to drink their tea and peepee into golden toilets.

Clearly.


----------



## Burke (Jul 21, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Well, her companions may have to cling uncomfortably close to her...



or comfortably close


----------



## Piekage (Jul 22, 2011)

So what's going on he...

...

pek


----------



## Wan (Jul 22, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Actually Mordin, that's the original concept art for the Polar Bear dog. That was back when Avatar was going to be set 1000 years set in the future. Appa came a little later.



If you want to be technical, it was an early idea for an animal companion that was eventually replaced by Appa.  Still, the point is the animal's design harkens back to the zygote stage of Avatar's life. 



Stunna said:


> I hope they come out with some "Expanded Universe" material like 'Star Wars'. Graphic novels and stuff following different characters that fleshes out the 'Avatar' world even more so.



A graphic novel collection of short stories, both new ones and previously published, called "The Lost Adventures" was recently published.  Next year there's supposed to be a graphic novel series released about how Aang and co. help restore the world after the war.  That's as much of an "expanded universe" outside of the TV shows that we are going to get, but honestly I think it's good.  I don't think Avatar has quite a strong enough fan base to make EU material focused on characters other than the main ones and be successful.

Ok, time for a DDJ style question. *puts monacle on*  I am curious as to whether Korra's animal companion is male or female.  Aang and Roku's animal companions matched their gender; perhaps the Avatar's animal companion always matches his or her gender.  That would mean that the animal companions of Kyoshi and Yangchen were female as well.


----------



## Koi (Jul 22, 2011)

^I want it to be a chick but have an attitude like Amaterasu from Okami.  I like how Ammy was more or less translated to be female in the English version but was faaaaaar from the 'mother' that everyone said she was.  She was sometimes moody, untrusting, and often violent _but she got shit done._



Ms. Jove said:


> OH MY GOD THEY'RE SELLING THESE PRINTS AT SDCC.
> 
> THEY'RE BEING SOLD AT THE NICK BOOTH, THIS IS TOTALLY LEGIT!



GOD DAMN EAST COST FUUUUUUUCK


I JUST.. I WANT IT TO BE REAL.  AND I WANT TO RUN UP TO IT AND THROW MY ARMS AROUND ITS NECK AND BURY MY FACE IN HIS FUR BECAUSE I BET IT'S SOFT AND WARM AND WOULD MAKE AN EXCELLENT BLANKET IF IT WASN'T SO GOD DAMNED ADORABLE.


----------



## Burke (Jul 22, 2011)

Koi said:


> ^I want it to be a chick but have an attitude like Amaterasu from Okami.  I like how Ammy was more or less translated to be female in the English version but was faaaaaar from the 'mother' that everyone said she was.  She was sometimes moody, untrusting, and often violent _but she got shit done._
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But what about cats, koi?


----------



## Koi (Jul 22, 2011)

Hey I like kittays too but giant fluffy beardogs?  Count me in.  

OH OH

YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE??  It's like Bryke saw this video and decided to MAKE IT AN ANIMAL.
[YOUTUBE]JE-Nyt4Bmi8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Burke (Jul 22, 2011)

people work quick :\


----------



## Noah (Jul 22, 2011)

Koi said:


> Hey I like kittays too but giant fluffy beardogs?  Count me in.
> 
> OH OH
> 
> ...



Holy crap. 1:26 is adorable. I WANT THAT AND I WANT IT NOW!


----------



## Shade (Jul 22, 2011)

The art is fantastic! It's amazing how a single image can make you feel like Mike and Bryan are up to their prime creative magic. I hope we get some more info and maybe a teaser at CC.

Also, the Korra title card we should have gotten: 

Using this until I can shoop myself a better quality one.


----------



## Koi (Jul 22, 2011)

I am going to be sad if there's a heartbreaking goodbye scene, with Korra telling polarbeardog that she has to leave her/him home so she can go save the world so she/he has to be a good polarbeardog and watch out for everyone and fight off the polar leopards while she's gone but they'll meet again soon!  I HAVE THE TEARS READY, BRYKE.  BRING IT ON.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 22, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Ok, time for a DDJ style question. *puts monacle on*  I am curious as to whether Korra's animal companion is male or female.  Aang and Roku's animal companions matched their gender; perhaps the Avatar's animal companion always matches his or her gender.  That would mean that the animal companions of Kyoshi and Yangchen were female as well.



I actually was not planning to ask such a question, as the gender of Korra's animal made no difference, to me, but, now that you have asked about it, I, also, am curious to know whether it is male or female.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 22, 2011)

Koi said:


> ^I want it to be a chick but have an attitude like Amaterasu from Okami.  I like how Ammy was more or less translated to be female in the English version but was faaaaaar from the 'mother' that everyone said she was.  She was sometimes moody, untrusting, and often violent _but she got shit done._




There are only girl cats and boy dogs. Everyone knows this.


----------



## Glued (Jul 22, 2011)

Girl or Boy, I am disappoint.

Who on Earth would want to eat a bear or a dog when they could have a bison?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 22, 2011)

at 1:48, that dude can totally be an Avatar character


----------



## Glued (Jul 22, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> at 1:48, that dude can totally be an Avatar character



What dude?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> What dude?



Stoic New Age Yukon Dude in the video Koi posted.


I just now found out that the guy that plays Rufus Dawes in the new Gettysburg documentary is Andr? Sogliuzzo...


That is, King Bumi/Hakoda. I really wish I knew that when I watched it.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 22, 2011)

Koi said:


> Hey I like kittays too but giant fluffy beardogs?  Count me in.
> 
> OH OH
> 
> ...



Oh...my... 

This is just as sweet as that baby hippo/old tortoise story...:amazed


----------



## Koi (Jul 22, 2011)

..Maybe polarbeardog is what Bryke REALLY meant when they said there would be motorcycles in this series.  In which case, that is the cutest motorcycle I've ever seen.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 22, 2011)

Speaking of things Bryke say, here's something from yesterday that will _not_ make any of us squee. This is from a report of the Music Panel that Bryke + The Track Team were on:



> The first fan question was about the retail availability of television soundtracks. Licht suggested checking iTunes as many can be purchased. "Except ours," cried out the team behind Nickelodeon's "Airbender" in unison. *"It's pretty frustrating when people block [the release]," added "Airbender" executive producer Bryan Konietzko. "At least you can watch the show and listen to [the music]," he added, to cheers from the audience.*




People are fucking blocking the release of an Avatar OST. They are _blocking it_!


----------



## Piekage (Jul 22, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Speaking of things Bryke say, here's something from yesterday that will _not_ make any of us squee. This is from a report of the Music Panel that Bryke + The Track Team were on:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



...the FUCK is this shit?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 22, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> People are fucking blocking the release of an Avatar OST. They are _blocking it_!


----------



## Glued (Jul 22, 2011)

What is OST?


----------



## Koi (Jul 22, 2011)

Well, they should be covered in raw meat and sent to live in a wolfbat-infested cave forever and ever.  The end.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> What is OST?



Original Sound Track.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 22, 2011)

Happy thoughts. Etsy has a Momo hat!


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 22, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Happy thoughts. Etsy has a Momo hat!


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 22, 2011)

Momo hat is cute.

I was just rewatching Jet vs Zuko. Aside from the battle, the scene beforehand made me grin.

_[JET dramatically bursts into the tea shop, brandishing weapons.]_

JET: I'm tired of waiting...these two men are Fire Benders! (...) I saw the old man heating his tea!

GUARD [_looks at his friend and raises his eyebrow, then back at JET_]: ...He works in a tea shop.

Even the small moments like that are ace.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 22, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Speaking of things Bryke say, here's something from yesterday that will _not_ make any of us squee. This is from a report of the Music Panel that Bryke + The Track Team were on:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh god, I'm sure it's bullshit related to James Cameron or M.Night, or both


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

This is it, its saturday gents.
Jove, see you tonite.


----------



## Wan (Jul 23, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Speaking of things Bryke say, here's something from yesterday that will _not_ make any of us squee. This is from a report of the Music Panel that Bryke + The Track Team were on:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Oh come on, Nick execs.  Get some common sense here.  If you don't release them on a physical disc, why not release them digitally to iTunes?  It's virtually no cost to you and fans would gobble it up!


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

Nick execs...common sense.  

...well there's your problem.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Today is the day.

My body is ready.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Can we agree upon the name of that animal being 'polar hound'?


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Today is the day.
> 
> My body is ready.



What's happening today? I just found out about the new series! What's happening today!?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> Can we agree upon the name of that animal being 'polar hound'?


Foo Foo Cuddly Poops II. 


Fenix Down said:


> What's happening today? I just found out about the new series! What's happening today!?


ComiCon panel(s).


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> Can we agree upon the name of that animal being 'polar hound'?



its a Pobog


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 23, 2011)

N??ps said:


> its a Pobog


?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

I believe the technical name Polar Hound is best, yes.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

I like the name 'Polar Hound'.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

I can't find any indication of who drew it; can we presume it was Bryan? It looks like his work, certainly.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

I like polar hound myself.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Personally I'd rather be an Air Nomad or Earth Bender.


----------



## BlazingCobaltX (Jul 23, 2011)

Nah, I prefer Fire or Water, but I'd love to be the Avatar. Avatar Cobalt from the Fire Nation, bitchez.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

​


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Earthbending is more useful than firebending


----------



## Glued (Jul 23, 2011)

How about we call it dinner.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> How about we call it dinner.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 23, 2011)

Directly from sources at SDCC.



foamy.gif  !!!!!!!!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

HOLY CRAP THAT MASKED MAN LOOKS LIKE A BOSS.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

KORRA LOOKS SO GOD DAMNED SASSY


----------



## Gunners (Jul 23, 2011)

Is the guy on the right Aang's son or an Earthbender?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

That's an earthbender. Tenzin is ancient, and an airbender.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 23, 2011)

My God, I was not ready.

Hurry up.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

I ship her and the fire dude already.  God dammit.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm assuming the earthbender dude is Meelo.  Mainly cause he looks like someone that might be named Meelo.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

I guess he sorta looks like Meelo.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 23, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Directly from sources at SDCC.
> 
> 
> 
> foamy.gif  !!!!!!!!



BY.

THE.

SPIRITS!!!! 

O_______O

I CAN'T WAIT FOR KORRA TO AIR ON NICK!!!!


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

I dunno, I always thought a name like Meelo would definitely be something thought up by Sokka.  And then Suki lost a bet when she was pregnant so.. Meelo.  Though he looks too young to be their kid, I suppose.


----------



## LoT (Jul 23, 2011)

I really need a trailer right now!


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Shit be trippin...I'm ready for a trailer.


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Shit be trippin...I'm ready for a trailer.



I ain't ready for the trailer.

I died when I saw that poster.

So I don't wanna know what'll happen to me when a trailer comes out.


----------



## Glued (Jul 23, 2011)

Oh boy a young Earth Bender and a young Fire Bender on both sides of Korra. I can hear the shippers already.

Earth X Water is better.
Fire X Water is better.

Run, run from the upcoming storm


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Earth X Water = Mud

Fire X Water = Steam

I think I find the latter more attractive.


----------



## tsunadefan (Jul 23, 2011)

hello? im new to this thread. nice to see ya'll.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Oh boy. The rabid Katara&Zuko fangirls will undoubtedly latch onto the fire-dude and Korra. 

Gonna be ugly.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> I ship her and the fire dude already.  God dammit.




I ship her and sturdy-built Earthbender dude. The thought of shipping her and ripped Fire Bro...


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

It doesn't matter because arctic polarhound will make sure she has no boyfriends ever and can continue rocking the world as a free bitch.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Hm, i figured jove would ahve more of a grand reaction to this.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Posters are hard to get truly excited for after the famed Combustion Man SDCC 2007 one.

I like the design on the masked villain. But again, what if he turns out to be a red herring like CM?

I can't tell if the Fire Defensive Stance Brah is wearing a scarf or a mantle, but I want one.

I will pay whatever is necessary to get one. I don't really care about the autographs, but I doubt many exist without an autograph. 


PS: Turns out Josh Middleton did the print.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

JOSH MIDDLETON, I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT.  I knew that style looked familiar but I couldn't figure out why.  Danke Joveku. :>

Also I thought Firebrah was wearing a tie at first, actually.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

kk which one of these guys do you think voices the men
Daniel Dae Kim - Hiroshi Sato
David Faustino - Mako
P.J. Byrne - Bolin
Dante Basco - TBA


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm guessing Faustino is the Fire Bro. Mako sounds FN and I don't think he can make a voice that would fit Earth Dude.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

remember back when we got that leak. it was like some sort of audition form that some 6 year old was doing for the show


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Posters are hard to get truly excited for after the famed Combustion Man SDCC 2007 one.
> 
> I like the design on the masked villain. But again, what if he turns out to be a red herring like CM?




It's different because we knew that the Fire Lord was the show's huge villain, the new guy in between Aang and Zuko with the third eye tattoo seemed mysterious and we figured he might play a bigger role than he actually did. We know very little about Korra but from the information that has been given, one can surmise that the masked man must be this series' villain. Someone has to lead this Anti-Bending revolt so I'm putting my bets on him.

For those interested, the Korean dude that will be with Mike, Bryan and Joaquim today is named Ki-hyun Ryu. He's responsible for creating Foamy and designing Jet and his Freedom Fighters. The Korra linetest we all got excited for several months ago was animated by him. As Supervising producer, I believe that this is the highest position he's held on an Animated program thus far.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> It's different because we knew that the Fire Lord was the show's huge villain, the new guy in between Aang and Zuko with the third eye tattoo seemed mysterious and we figured he might play a bigger role than he actually did. We know very little about Korra but from the information that has been given, one can surmise that the masked man must be this series' villain. Someone has to lead this Anti-Bending revolt so I'm putting my bets on him.



I hope that's the case.


Get in the mood:


[YOUTUBE]EqFjzzMb5Xk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]W5QUHLGytdA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)




----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Greenifyme's DA Page said:
			
		

> UM HELLO HOT FIREBENDER DUDE, YES I WILL HAVE ANOTHER FIRE/WATER SHIP, THANK YOU FOR ASKING




Looks like the next two years will be be a plentiful harvest of insane fan wankery, indeed.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Let's check out what people are tweeting.



> No way I'm getting into LEGEND OF KORRA panel. I've only seen lines this long in SOYLENT GREEN.





> Waiting in line for legend of korra which is at four the line almost completely raps around at least half the building



Seems about right. I expect that panel to be packed on all sides. All the hardcore fans who care about nothing else that's going on today are already Panel squatting and have already sat through 3 or 2 today.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 23, 2011)

OH GOD I HAVE STAYED AWAY FROM THIS THREAD FOR SOME TIME NOW

THEN I SAW THAT GODLY PIC

OH PLEASE WHEN ARE THE TRAILERS COMING OUT

NICK YOU BETTER NOT DISAPPOINT


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Its obvious that Bryke are such nice guys that theyre pleasing the zutaras. I really dont mind that though.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't think so but someone brought this up - 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5hn-lMGPpI[/YOUTUBE]

Those 2 guys are the dudes that Korra was fighting in the line test I linked to. Everything matches up.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm thinking about going to the NY comic con this year (first con ever, oh god) but I don't think there's going to be a Nick panel, unfortunately. \:


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Thank god for sifu kisu


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> I'm thinking about going to the NY comic con this year (first con ever, oh god) but I don't think there's going to be a Nick panel, unfortunately. \:



If there is, I'm going. Balderdash prevented me from going in '08. I will not miss this one, even if I have to drive into the goddamn city.




Wonder if we'll hear any new music tonight...


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Well assuming that there's some sort of teaser, The Track Team may have composed something original for it. I'm awaiting the live tweeting that will occur, even though Twitter was available back in '07 and '08 for the Airbender panels, the whole world hadn't latched onto it yet. So glad that I don't have to keep refreshing a thread on ASN for the latest updates.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well assuming that there's some sort of teaser, The Track Team may have composed something original for it. I'm awaiting the live tweeting that will occur, even though Twitter was available back in '07 and '08 for the Airbender panels, the whole world hadn't latched onto it yet. So glad that I don't have to keep refreshing a thread on ASN for the latest updates.



Who are you keeping an eye on right now?


G4 seems to be going out of their way top ignore this panel, by the way.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Well G4 didn't even care about TLA, the line may have stretched around the building to attend the panel today but Korra will get no attention from that network.
It seems like Avatarmom is a safe bet to follow right now on Twitter. She did get us our first glimpse of the post and she's been inside the room where they're holding the panel for a while now.


----------



## Quaero (Jul 23, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> G4 seems to be going out of their way top ignore this panel, by the way.



Knowing how fervent Avatar fans are, they probably just cant get inside the god damn room.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2011)

G4 as usual, sucks sweaty cheesy balls.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Getting into Legend of Korra was easier than expected. Hope it starts on time so I can get in enough before going to Fringe!


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Gotta give props to UGO for providing coverage of the Panel.
The "Re-Blog if you don't like the Reboot" on Tumblr is up to 2.3 million reblogs now

I'd love to know how getting into this -  
was easier than expected.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

I've got Avatar Mom, Alison Wilgus, and Mark Oshiro, and I'm refreshing a Korra search. Also keeping my eye on Tout.


EDIT: HERE WE GO




> Nick rep says Legend of Korra is happening because of fan outcry for more from the Avatar creators.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Trailer time for Legend of Korra. The room is gonna shake





> Legend of Korra trailer!


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Ohhhhhhhh snap


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Great, and now we wait a couple hours for a LQ leak to youtube :|



> Nick rep says Legend of Korra is happening because of fan outcry for more from the Avatar creators.


roughly translates to
"the only reason we greenlit this is because we see the potential for a fuckton of money"


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Foot in mouth. Apparently there is a trailer.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Omg legend of korra trailer was amazing





			
				Mark Does Stuff said:
			
		

> LEGEND OF KORRA TRAILER. OH MY GOD. NO ONE IS PREPARED. AMAZING.





> LEGEND OF KORRA TRAILER. OH MY GOD. NO ONE IS PREPARED. AMAZING.





> The polarbear dog has different back legs than front, Korra's firebending is awesome looking!





> HOLY FUCK THE LEGEND OF KORRA TRAILER IS SO FUCKING INTENSE AND AMAZING HOLY FUCK AHHH ASGDHDJFJDHD





			
				amiraelizabeth said:
			
		

> I think I had a cardiac episode from the awesomeness of KORRA!!!! Holy crap it was amazing!! I'm shaking..





			
				Avatar Mom said:
			
		

> They just showed the trailer, they use the epic music from 3rd season trailer. I AM SHAKING





> Animation and art direction are beautiful and the world looks VERY different 70 years in the future. Wow.




I'm freaking out.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

STOP SPOILING YOURSELF JOVEMAN
YOUR GOING TO RUIN THE SURPRISE ON YOUR VIRGIN EYES


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Showing concept art! YES! Dear movies, you can do this too, you know....we love it.





> korra has a really cool red costume as well as her water nation garb





> Totally different from Aang, Korra was designed by Ki-Hyundai Ryu




vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

I dunno, reaction seems mixed


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

I groaned because I realize that I wasn't going to be able to see it a second after it was shown.

Different Angles from Korra model sheet.

click here


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> OMG Aang and Zuko, after the war, founded a city together


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

I.. I have a lot of feelings.. that I shouldn't have.. as a straight chick..


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

> MarkDoesStuff
> Brothers will be on the team. One is a firebender, one is an earthbender. !!!!!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Part of Korra's team are brothers, one is an earth bender, one is a fire bender.





> The feel is very "1920s Jazzy Manhattan/Shanghai Dickens" and whatever you think that is - that's it. They nail it.





> One of the brothers is named Mako, named after the late actor who was the voice of Uncle Iro on Avatar


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

I like the secondary cut, but ive grown to like her first hairstyle.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

I totally knew they were brothers. I just doubted it because they are benders of two different elements.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

WHAT

THEY'RE BROTHERS

OT3 DON'T JUDGE ME


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


>



David Faustino - Mako
P.J. Byrne - Bolin

ladies and gentlemen


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Forget it. I'm just going to post like crazy and merge later.



> brothers: mako and bolin. one's a fire bender one's an earth bender







> The united republic was founded by aang and zuko


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Ah haha I love his eyebrows.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

So once again the Avatar's allies are siblings. Routine, but no problem.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

i... wish... i was there...


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Naga is the polar bear dog that Korra rides. She is her best friend!!





> Pabu: red panda and a black-footed ferret. Bolin's buddy. A fire ferret!!!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

FIRE FERRET!!!!!!!!


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

I immediatly accept the polar hounds name.

EDIT:
hello new momo


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't. Naga are Hindu snake-women.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

my god, were getting sozins comet attendance levels here.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



> FLYING BISON ARE BACK!!!





> New species of flying lemurs!!!!!!


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

THREE KATAANG BABIES OMG


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

OH GOD FLYIN BISON YES YES YES


NO POST TIME LIMIT, FUCK _YOU_


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

WELL?
WELL!?
CMON WHO ARE THEY


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

> MarkDoesStuff Mark Oshiro
> Two seasons of 12 eps each. That seems to be what they hinted at.
> 
> 
> ...


Confirms what we already guessed/knew, sort of


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

THE INTERNET CANNOT GO FAST ENOUGH


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Mako is the brooding...not as amuch as Zuko, Bolin is the younger, goofier brother. Kind of naive.





> Bolin is a way of incorp the original type of character they wanted for Toph





> Tenzin is very serious, but when his kids are crazy, he can be really funny, tries to be the "zen master" but loses his patience sometimes





> Meelo is Tenzins little boy





> Tenzin has 3 airbenders kids, Pemma however is not a bender





> Jinora, bookworm, oldest of Tenzins kids




This is Tenzin!!!


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Why would it matter that Korra has two brothers as allies?


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

edit: beaten by Jove

Tenzin looks like a typical serious monk.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

2 WATERBENDERS 1 AIRBENDER THAT IS ADORABLE HOLY SHIT


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Wait so Tenzin has.. four kids, and one's just not a bender, or?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Aang finds a heard of sky bison after the war





> Here's a bit to chew on from the trailer: Shot of a statue of an older Aang, A shot of a flying bison (Appa still alive?) flying over...





> Iki talks a mile a minute and is really fun and crazy





> The revolutionaries called the Equalists


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Revolutionaries = The Equalists

Anti-benders, prob

edit: screw it, I'll let Jove do all the work


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Probably.  Though I'd love to hear about fringe benders who think they're like ~greater than~ or whatever because they can bend and others can't.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> All of the "bad guys" are masked, very steampunk esque





> Chi Blockers are his henchmen, Ty lees discipline spread





> METALBENDER COPS (!!!!!!!!)





> Toph traveled the world and taught earthbenders how to harness the ability, a rare thing, but they are the elite, swap team of Republic city



Interesting...


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Equalists are Chi-Blockers like Ty Lee. Nice


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Keep the updates coming.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

idkwhatimtalkingaboutjoveyoucandoallthework


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

> METALBENDER COPS!!!!! Toph traveled world to teach earthbenders how to bend metal. !!!!!!


KJDGFKJBSNFKGJBSGKJH


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

> TOPHS DAUGHTER IS THE CHIEF OF POLICE OF THE METALBENDER COPS!!


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

I FEEL LIKE WEEPING YOU GUYS


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> TOPHS DAUGHTER IS CHIEF OF POLICE





> ..no word on who the father is





> spools on their back that release and contract metal cables so they can zip around the city





TOPH'S DAUGHTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Korra versus metalbenders. Probending is a sport!!





> The whole city comes to pro bending arena to watch the elements battle each other





> "Pro-bending" teams of 3 benders (one of each discipline) against eachother





> Briane created the rule book, spent an hour explaining it to the animators using virtual players on a hand drawn arena



DDDDDDDDDDDD


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

So...metal Spiderman huh


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

this is me right now, i can't even


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Pro-Bending? That's so sick I could vomit my guts. In a good way.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

> Lauren Montegomary is also coming back for the second season!





> Josh Middleton is coming on for the second season, which is why the exclusive posters were such a great way to introduce him to us





> Going to show a clip! Sifu Kisu is back for the show, same classic styles are back...they sound VERY excited for it, and will be bringing...





> in mixed martial arts styles for pro bending, brought in professional fighter, influenced from "tricking" flashy martial art styles




DREAM TEAM~!!!! 





> Ok, season one: 12 eps. Season two: 14 eps.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

The 26 eps will be split into 2 seasons.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

DUDE
PROBENDING
IM DYING


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

So S1 = original miniseries, S2 = continuation.

Makes sense.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

WE NEED MORE EPISOHOHOHOOOODES


----------



## Noah (Jul 23, 2011)

wtf is a probending?!

Actually, nevermind. I'll come back later and wank then!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

They are watching video of people exhibiting martial arts source material.



> For music "What would is sound like in the 20's if the Chinese invented Jazz?"



I KNEW IT WOULD BE JAZZ! 




> Brian: We really need your guys continued help...to get the soundtrack.





> Encouraging us to CONTACT NICK and let them know we will buy it!




NAGA!!!!

The "Re-Blog if you don't like the Reboot" on Tumblr is up to 2.3 million reblogs now



> Don't have a premiere date yet, theres just a lot of stuff that has to happen before Korra can take center stage.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

NAGA!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

It's over. *exhale*

I've worked up a sweat with all this furious posting.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Well that was exciting


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> It's over. *exhale*
> 
> I've worked up a sweat with all this furious posting.



Now combine all that into one post thats organized filled with spoiler tags


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

Pretty cool.  Toph's daughter - looking steamesque.  Not sure I understand the devices they'll be carrying on their back - but we'll find out.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm compiling all the info, but first...


THE TRAILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

News: First (Real) Trailer for Wong Kar Wai's THE GRANDMASTERS Has Finally Arrived!


Edit: I'm welling up, you guys. I can't handle it anymore.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2011)

Dear god, this thread is exploding


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

jfc I have no idea how everyone managed to say SO QUIET during that!  I would have been flipping out.


----------



## Quaero (Jul 23, 2011)

News: First (Real) Trailer for Wong Kar Wai's THE GRANDMASTERS Has Finally Arrived!

Oh I wonder what this could be...

[edit]

Beaten to it...


----------



## Quaero (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> jfc I have no idea how everyone managed to say SO QUIET during that!  I would have been flipping out.



they showed it twice.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Urgh, need that trailer in higher quality now


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 23, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I'm compiling all the info, but first...
> 
> 
> THE TRAILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...



OMG!!!!  
I've got that tingly feeling going up and down my spine right now.


----------



## Taurus Versant (Jul 23, 2011)

So excited.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

i spent about a minute rubbing the goosebumps off my arms and legs.
i dont think ive ever felt this hype before...


----------



## Jena (Jul 23, 2011)

All this information! pek

OMG OMG OMG I'm so excited for Korra now! Even more excited than I was before! I'm gonna pee!!!!!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm the most excited to see a Pro-Bending match.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

I was about to comment on how the drastic social change might have been too much, but really, in the real world, 70 years really can change a lot. They definetly went through a hyper industrial revolution.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]CLDmI3ieauo[/YOUTUBE]
Better quality trailer.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Ohhhh god that is so good.  How long til we get an 'official' trailer online, do you think?


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

ooohhh.... not soon


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Name spelling are guesses, obviously.

Recap:

--- This show happened due to fan demand.

--- Bryke were unsure, but the ideas came naturally and quickly.

--- One of things that excited Bryke was differentiating between Korra and Aang.

--- Korra is meant to be akin to a tough snowboarder.

--- She was conceived to be more rugged than Aang.

--- The musical concept is "if the Chinese invented Jazz."

--- Korra's Animal Companion is a female Polar Bear Dog named Naga.

--- The New Team Avatar will be a trio: Korra and two brothers named Mako and Bolin.

---Mako and Bolin are brothers, both benders, but of different disciplines.

--- Mako is a Firebender, and the brooding type.

--- Mako is named after _the_ Mako.

--- Bolin is the younger brother, a goofy Earthbender.

--- Mako's animal companion is named Paboo/Pabu.

--- Paboo/Pabu is a Fire Ferret, a hybrid of red panda and ferret.

---Republic City is now "United Republic."

--- UR was founded by Aang and Zuko.

--- UR is meant to be a multi-bender utopia.

--- UR is based on 1920's Shanghai.

--- Aang found a herd of Sky Bison after the war. 

--- There are new species of Flying Lemur.

--- Toph travelled the World, teaching metalbending.

--- Ty Lee's Chi blocking style has spread.

--- Aang and Katara had three kids.

--- Tenzin is the youngest.

--- Tenzin had three children with a non-bender named Pema.

--- Jinora, the studious one. Iki, the fun and crazy one. Meelo, the young goofy one.

--- Tenzin looks like a total badass and he's serious as fuck, but can be funny.

--- Toph's Daughter is the chief of police.

--- The police are metalbenders and they zipline around the city.

--- The anti-bending group are called The Equalists.

--- They fight using Ty Lee chi blocking technique.

--- They are led by a masked man named Oman.

--- There will be two seasons.

--- Season 1 will be 12 episodes , 2eason 2 14 episodes.

--- Lauren Montgomery and Josh Middleton will be on board for Season 2.

--- Kisu will be undertaking his normal role for Korra.

--- There is an arena sport called Pro Bending.

--- Pro bending will look to MMA and flashy martial arts styles for inspiration.


----------



## Noah (Jul 23, 2011)

I want it. I want it now.

That world is practically unrecognizable when compared to the first one.

Fuck, this can't come soon enough.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

So we (and by that i mean me) can get a better idea on the characters.

This guy plays Bolin
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fce5YR2ccc[/YOUTUBE]

This guy plays Mako
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSCFgv9JV7U[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Official trailer is up on Nick.com guys!


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm already in love with the Equalists. Basically combining the Dai Li with Ty Lee and nifty masks.


----------



## Jena (Jul 23, 2011)

Dat trailer. 

MUH GAWD


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Find it here somewhere.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Find it here somewhere.


I honestly cannot find it. Very nice layout they have there.


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 23, 2011)

Love it. Can't wait. Looks beautiful.

I also feel that a part of why I love avatar is the fact that it's not japanese...


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

on a related note
Jove, i command you to analyze the shit out of this video.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLDmI3ieauo&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

I'll take a crack at it before Jove.

0:01 - 1:40: EVERYTHING IS AMAZING


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Best comment I've seen so far.



> this looks really dumb and its really throwing me off is this girl suppose to be the new avatar or something? i don't think it will replace the original



And this was written on the Korra fan group on Facebook.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

A well thought out response.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Avatar Facebook page has the HD version


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

..And yet none of that tells us where Ursa is.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

ok i know its not me, but that official video is definetly sped up like 10 percent :|


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Some of the comments left on the Korra fan page are hair-pullingly frustrating. 
The ignorance of anything related to the show is astounding.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

I analyze later. Now I upload:

Link removed


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

I just saw the trailer. It's astounding; not only did I get chills, I teared up. I swear to God. It looks so good, there are no words.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 23, 2011)

Everyone knows ProBending is fake


----------



## Noah (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> ..And yet none of that tells us where Ursa is.



Spoiler alert: She dead, yo. 






ReikaiDemon said:


> Everyone knows ProBending is fake



Oh. Oh! Can we please have an elderly The Boulder playing the Vince McMahon type character in the pro-bending arena?!


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I just saw the trailer. It's astounding; not only did I get chills, I teared up. I swear to God. It looks so good, there are no words.



No, there are words. These.


> this looks really dumb and its really throwing me off is this girl suppose to be the new avatar or something? i don't think it will replace the original



That's all anyone needs to say.


----------



## Shade (Jul 23, 2011)

The HD trailer's neither on  he Nick site nor the FB page. Anyone got a link?

EDIT: Fuck, t's region locked to the US. WTF Nick!?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

I hope they don't do that to Pro-Bending. They already played that WWF card with that Earthbending circuit in Season Two.

Edit: The trailer is most definitely on the FB page, I just saw it.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Shade said:


> The HD trailer's neither on  he Nick site nor the FB page. Anyone got a link?
> 
> EDIT: Fuck, t's region locked to the US. WTF Nick!?


It'll be uploaded to Youtube by tomorrow. People at Avatarspirit are working on it


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

For those who _can_ see it.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

What if America did Harry Potter?

Direct link to fullscreen player, no dicking around with Nick.com


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 23, 2011)

if someone has a program like v-downloader to rip the hd video for us non USA guys that would be great.

v-downloader is free and takes like 1 min.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> if someone has a program like v-downloader to rip the hd video for us non USA guys that would be great.
> 
> v-downloader is free and takes like 1 min.


[YOUTUBE]m_VkHYtS6MY[/YOUTUBE]
Official HQ trailer on Youtube

Well, it's sort of HQ. 720p, but still a little small.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 23, 2011)

This is a good day.


----------



## blakstealth (Jul 23, 2011)

Sup guys- OH SHIT new trailer WHATTT

*clicks link*

*watches....HOOOLLLLYYY MOTHER*

*trademark Avatar theme kicks in halfway ACTION EVERYWHERE OOOMMMMGGGGGGG*

#(JFENCEIGTHSBIWRUWURHF


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

blakstealth said:


> #(JFENCEIGTHSBIWRUWURHF



The text based representation of an orgasm ^^^


----------



## Iria (Jul 23, 2011)

Naga and Chinese Jazz and popo metal benders and pro-bending 

This is so exciting!

And dat trailer.


----------



## blakstealth (Jul 23, 2011)

N??ps said:


> The text based representation of an orgasm ^^^


aw lawd..

I just came home feeling all tired and sore..now I'm rewarded with God's work.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 23, 2011)

Some of that look set in modern day  

I had the idea this was confirmed as a steampunk setting


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

I was going to say the United Republic looked a bit _too_ modern, but I have no clue what 20's Shanghai looked like, so I refrained from saying anything due to my frame of reference, or lack thereof.


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 23, 2011)




----------



## Taurus Versant (Jul 23, 2011)

Aang found a skybison herd :33


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Keep in mind Jove, make sure you take HQ screencaps of all the scenes you analyze. :3


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Makes sense. I always thought it was weird that Appa was the only Sky Bison left. I mean, they can fly. Why would they stay at the temples so the firebenders could slaughter them too?


----------



## Iria (Jul 23, 2011)

So I am already digging this Mako guy. And what a nice tribute to name him that. Damn those creators are classy.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I was going to say the United Republic looked a bit _too_ modern, but I have no clue what 20's Shanghai looked like, so I refrained from saying anything due to my frame of reference, or lack thereof.


Their industrial revolution could have progressed at a much faster rate compared to ours, especially considering that they would have bending to help it along (firebending for steam engines/smelting, metalbending for construction, etc).


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Too late for screencaps. Not too late to change my set.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes, that makes sense.


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Their industrial revolution could have progressed at a much faster rate compared to ours, especially considering that they would have bending to help it along (firebending for steam engines/smelting, metalbending for construction, etc).


Yeah this sounds right. I'm thinking it was this United Nation that set things in motion.

With fire, earth and water benders all living in one place they probably quickly realized how useful the bending was with constructing buildings and structures etc as well as for general construction and infrastructure.

So maybe it's just that place which is so advanced, while everywhere else is still catching up.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> So maybe it's just that place which is so advanced, while everywhere else is still catching up.


Korra's home in the trailer was a typical Water Tribe ice-hut, so the United Republic (as the epicenter of the industrial revolution) is likely decades ahead of the remainder of the world.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

The "Re-Blog if you don't like the Reboot" on Tumblr is up to 2.3 million reblogs now 
^ Another place with all the info and photos complied, along with links to Nick so we can tell them to man up and release the OST.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

_*YOU GUYS*_



IT'S TENZIN
WITH HIS FAMILY
JDBSGKJBEKGJBSKGJBSEKRJ,GBLKNGT


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

Amazing - watched the trailer several times.  

Looks like we see Mako, perhaps, at 00.45.  It looks as though Korra dissipates some firebending, they meet hand to hand, and she appears to bend his hands back forcefully.  If it is Mako, we see him again at 00.48 being pitched through a clockmaker's shop window lol.  They're both wearing street clothes (not the uniform for Pro-Bending as seen @ 00:49).  But it really looks like the same gent @ 1:16 - guessing it might be him.  

Definitely seeing some Pro-Bending action (Korra seems as though she's wearing some red protective gear - much like one might wear in contact sports). Also there appears to be an arena at 00:41, 00.49. She seem to be training or competing @ 1:04/1:05.   

It looks like we see a cop, an Earthbending elite, at 0.54 (notice the green color of his uniform, and there is an insignia on his hat).  He's running and leaping off a rooftop, evidently chasing Korra atop Naga below, and for the briefest moment we see cords extending from his right wrist (you really have to be Johnny on the spot with the pause button to see it @ 0.54).  Another (perhaps the same) cop can be seen @ 1.01/1.02 projecting cords at Korra - you'll notice their body armor and chord gizmo (on their back).  And a better shot of the uniform 1.02/1.03 (subtle green with grey metal armor).  

And we see Korra vs. Equalists starting at 00:45, 00.57, 00.59 - 1.00, and final shot @ 1:10-1:11 (mask with red insignia centered on forehead at 00.45 as he flips in the foreground - matches final shot @ 00:59).  They seem very impressive: Korra looks like a hands on kinda girl - and it looks like they're keep pace with her. 

There is a heavy suspension bridge and airships of new design @ 00:32.  There are also, what appears to be anyway, automobiles @ 00.59, crashing into one another as Korra rounds a corner on Naga.  Makes sense given the bridge and layout as I can see so far, though we do still see a pedestrian park @ 00:37.  

Korra drawing up water @ 00:27 - I'm immediately stricken by the force of the water. It looks immensely powerful compared to the old intro.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Has two gifs from the trailer at the moment but they'll probably get more as they get made.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Ok, so I see:

--- Looks like Korra and the Brothers walking outside United Republic?

--- Sky Bison around a steeple... possibly Aang's Island? I'm apreuming all Avatars get an island.

--- It kind of looks like they've bred sky Bison to be wider, because those saddles look a lot more spacious.

--- Can't make out the symbol on the gate of the town the SB flies into, but it looks very Village of the Week. And it kinda looks like a hybrid of Fire and Air architecture.

--- Aang looks no more than 25. I'm seriously hopeful Aang stayed cleanshaven his whole life. 

--- Whatever Aang is holding, it is peculiar. The circular top has ridged carving... it must be related to airbending but I can't see how.

--- A lot of this reminds me of Book 1, Chapter 1, when they had time to really embellish the art. The skyscapes are breathtaking.

--- I'd be interested to hear which country Konietzko based the geography upon.

--- Aang looks very stoic... I'd have figured him to capture his jovial side. Perhaps he tempered with age? 

--- Korra looks _really_ concerned and somber in the next shot. Are those people her parents, perhaps?

--- I wonder if that's the SWT proper or just a random village in the SWT. Is this the extent to which the SWT was rebuilt?

--- UR looks amazing at night. 

--- The shot with the bridge... those are some totally gear Airships. It doesn't look like the design has changed too much in 70 years, though.

--- The guy that walks by Korra apears to be wearing a stange amalgam of traditional and near-modern clothing. He's wearing clothing that wouldn't be out of place in ATLA, but that jacket and hat are very early 20th.

--- He also looks like he's wearing a bowtie. 

--- The shot with the palace... kind of looks like the Earth King's palace, no?

--- The palace also looks amazingly out of place beside the modern-looking buildings. I wonder how prevalent the clash of epochs will be in the show.

--- Korra looks awfully happy when firebending. 

--- I wonder if that will be an established theme as well. Bryke noted how keen they were to show the differences between Aang and Korra. Maybe this is also to show how different two Avatars can be. Aang's personality led him to naturally favor waterbending as his secondary element. Maybe Korra's temperament suits firebending.

--- Korra looks pretty good in her Fire outfit. She must seriously be drawn to firebending.

--- Oh brother, Mako does kind of look like Zuko. 

--- Go frame by frame (or, as best we can right now), and you can see the subtle ways they animate the fights. Korra and Mako are fighting in a style very adapted to chi-blocking. I wonder if Ba Gua has a greater influence in the post-Aang world.

--- So I'm guessing she meets the brothers at a Pro bending exhibition?


Alright, fine, I took some screenshots to satisfy Noops. I'll post them next.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Joveku, Korra looks naked in that picture.  Is that on puuuuuuuuurpose?


----------



## DracoStorm (Jul 23, 2011)

That was kinda disappointing.  The designs look really generic (I know they're Americans copying Anime, but it does look like DevaintArt fan characters) and I dislike how they might play Korra like some Kim Possible with her two idiot male sidekicks.  I just hope they don't fall into the pitfall of denying anything girly about her like they did before.  It's the main problem with female superheros; they're just men with boobs, which is kinda lame.  America seems to still be behind when it comes to writing for females.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Screenshots for my arbitrary analysis. They are merely frames I really liked:


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> That was kinda disappointing.  The designs look really generic (I know they're Americans copying Anime, but it does look like DevaintArt fan characters) and I dislike how they might play Korra like some Kim Possible with her two idiot male sidekicks.  I just hope they don't fall into the pitfall of denying anything girly about her like they did before.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Kim prolly' wasn't the best example there. She was plenty girly.


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 23, 2011)

Those screens, my god, I can't hold them back:


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2011)

The animation...it is so gorgeous! pek

The brown haired boy at the end reminds me of Sokka...this is great news. 

Was that a car I saw...? I hope not, that would just be, I dunno.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah, it looks like an automobile; a welcome addition to the universe if you ask me.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Was that a car I saw...? I hope not, that would just be, I dunno.


Giant zeppelins are okay, but 1920s-era cars aren't? 

But yeah, the trailer shows a truck crashing into a car. Both very early-style.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Giant zeppelins are okay, but 1920s-era cars aren't?
> 
> But yeah, the trailer shows a truck crashing into a car. Both very early-style.



'Cause this means closer to guns, which no bender will be able to fight against. 

Giant animals that are mixed species are awesome!


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> 'Cause this means closer to guns, which no bender will be able to fight against.


M&B said no guns. Can't remember where, but they said it.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 23, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> I dislike how they might play Korra like some Kim Possible with her two idiot male sidekicks.  I just hope they don't fall into the pitfall of denying anything girly about her like they did before.  It's the main problem with female superheros; they're just men with boobs, which is kinda lame.  America seems to still be behind when it comes to writing for females.



I know what you mean when it comes to the shoddy handling of most female characters, but I trust Team Avatar in this area. I think they did a great job for females in ATLA.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> That was kinda disappointing.  The designs look really generic (I know they're Americans copying Anime, but it does look like DevaintArt fan characters) and I dislike how they might play Korra like some Kim Possible with her two idiot male sidekicks.  I just hope they don't fall into the pitfall of denying anything girly about her like they did before.  It's the main problem with female superheros; they're just men with boobs, which is kinda lame.  America seems to still be behind when it comes to writing for females.



How do you mean generic?  What...they all have arms and legs?  And I think it's a little too early to even make guesses at personalities and intelligence - for any of the characters.  Korra looks aggressive, but she is fighting/competing.  We'll just have to wait and see what her personality is like.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> _*YOU GUYS*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Koi said:


> Has two gifs from the trailer at the moment but they'll probably get more as they get made.



Reposting cause they were at the end of the last page.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> Reposting cause they were at the end of the last page.



That's awesome.  

Gotta say - I'm just pissed it's going to take so long to get this on tv.  It's going to feel like forever.


----------



## DracoStorm (Jul 23, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Kim prolly' wasn't the best example there. She was plenty girly.



The girly part wasn't about Kim, but the typical Hollywood action girl and superhero female heroes.


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 23, 2011)

I guess 70 years plus 'magic' would help speed things up by this much, especially if it's only in the United Republic too.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

What the heck? How old is Tenzin? His kids look no older than 12.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> Koi said:
> 
> 
> > _*YOU GUYS*_
> ...



Jinora kind of looks like Young Azula.


----------



## DracoStorm (Jul 23, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I know what you mean when it comes to the shoddy handling of most female characters, but I trust Team Avatar in this area. I think they did a great job for females in ATLA.



I though the females in the first series were terrible.  They pretty much became master benders with no training at all (unlike Aang and Zuko who had to train).  Katara masted water bending between episodes/seasons, Toph started out better than all the male wrestlers/army guys, and etcetera.  They were really poorly written in that regard; they never had to work like the guys did, but I think that's because American stuff is afraid of having girls strain themselves or stuggle out of fear of being called sexist.  Japan seems more open to that.



Soul Assassin said:


> How do you mean generic?  What...they all have arms and legs?



Just they look like background characters.  Korra is Katara only slightly muscular and with different hair.  Her two guys look like random backgrounders or fan characters you'd see on DevaintArt from Avatar fanfics.


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 23, 2011)

I want to see Zuko's son. I thought he was mentioned as a character?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Stunna said:


> What the heck? How old is Tenzin? His kids look no older than 12.



Well, let's math this out.

This takes place 70 years after The Battle of Wulong Forest.

Aang was 12 then.

If Aang had Tenzin, his youngest son, in his late 30's, Tenzin woudl have been born about 45 years ago.

So if Tenzin is 45-50, then he had the kids somewhere in his late 30's/early 40's.

It's possible.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2011)

I wonder if Korra will be aggressive when battling. I know they said she'd be more "tough" or whatever word they used, but it really looks like she enjoys kicking people's butts.

Or did I just see that? 

I think I will love this show. I can't believe Bud from Married with Children is in it 


Coteaz said:


> M&B said no guns. Can't remember where, but they said it.



I know, but its close. And it kind of saddens me.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

I hadn't done the math, I just assumed he was old as heck.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Jinora kind of looks like Young Azula.



If she's the one directly in front of the mother - that's exactly what I thought at first glance.  I'm maybe picking up a little Ty Lee in there too - perhaps it's the color of her clothes however.  IDK.  



DracoStorm said:


> I though the females in the first series were terrible.  They pretty much became master benders with no training at all (unlike Aang and Zuko who had to train).  Katara masted water bending between episodes/seasons, Toph started out better than all the male wrestlers/army guys, and etcetera.  They were really poorly written in that regard; they never had to work like the guys did, but I think that's because American stuff is afraid of having girls strain themselves or stuggle out of fear of being called sexist.  Japan seems more open to that.
> 
> Just they look like background characters.  Korra is Katara only slightly muscular and with different hair.  Her two guys look like random backgrounders or fan characters you'd see on DevaintArt from Avatar fanfics.



Similar perhaps (Korra) - but I would assume that there would be some similarities.  Inasmuch as the two gents are concerned - meh - I say good for the DeviantArt crowd as they did themselves proud?  I think they're fine.  IMO the folks at Avatar do not disappoint.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Id hate to come anywhere close to agreeing with this obvious hater, but i will say that im a bit ... i dunno... dissapointed that theres a goofy chubby guy and a handsome "more brooding" guy.

EDIT: on a related note, where the hell is DDJ?


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

How old is Korra + co?  Like, 16-17?  Older?  Let's say she's 18, at max, which puts Aang dying 52 years after the series' end, or at the age of 64-5.  Tenzin is going to be at LEAST in his late thirties, but probably his early forties, so he probably had a lot of Airbender shit going on which meant he put off having kids for a few years.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Id hate to come anywhere close to agreeing with this obvious hater, but i will say that im a bit ... i dunno... dissapointed that theres a goofy chubby guy and a handsome "more brooding" guy.
> 
> EDIT: on a related note, where the hell is DDJ?



Shut up  

jk

He's prolly watching the vid x 1000.


----------



## Jena (Jul 23, 2011)

DracoStorm said:


> I though the females in the first series were terrible.  They pretty much became master benders with no training at all (unlike Aang and Zuko who had to train).  Katara masted water bending between episodes/seasons, Toph started out better than all the male wrestlers/army guys, and etcetera.  They were really poorly written in that regard; they never had to work like the guys did, but I think that's because American stuff is afraid of having girls strain themselves or stuggle out of fear of being called sexist.  Japan seems more open to that.
> 
> 
> 
> Just they look like background characters.  Korra is Katara only slightly muscular and with different hair.  Her two guys look like random backgrounders or fan characters you'd see on DevaintArt from Avatar fanfics.



Meh. 
I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. I _can_ agree that Toph started out hyper-powered, but I completely disagree with Katara. When the series started, she could only perform basic waterbending. Then there was the arch in season 1 where the Gataang traveled to the other water tribe so that Katara could find a master, and we also do see Katara training throughout the series and her abilities improve. You have to keep in mind that the series is mostly about Aaang growing and learning. Time spent watching the rest of Gataang train would eat away at the time available to see Aang train. We don't really need to see every member improving in the same detail-and I don't think that the show spent more time showing Sokka and Zuko train than it did Katara and Toph.

I think that Korra looks similiar to Katara because a lot of the waterbenders do look similiar. They all have the same hair color, skin color, and eye color. And I don't get the background character/fan character comparison at all, but...


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> How old is Korra + co?  Like, 16-17?  Older?  Let's say she's 18, at max, which puts Aang dying 52 years after the series' end, or at the age of 64-5.  Tenzin is going to be at LEAST in his late thirties, but probably his early forties, so he probably had a lot of Airbender shit going on which meant he put off having kids for a few years.



Maybe a war or two.
Nothing spurs progress like a good war


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Id hate to come anywhere close to agreeing with this obvious hater, but i will say that im a bit ... i dunno... dissapointed that theres a goofy chubby guy and a handsome "more brooding" guy.



All I can do is shrug. Most television characters are base types of some kind at the beginning of most narratives. Just trust Bryke's ability to provide nuance and idiosyncrasy.


I'm wondering whether Tenzin might have been a late child for Aang and Katara, like Azulon was for Sozin. If Tenzin was the only Airbender they had, maybe he was their last chance, so to speak.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2011)

I can't believe Bud (Married with Children) plays the kid at the end. If IMDB is correct, that is.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Jena said:


> Meh.
> I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. I agree that Toph started out hyper-powered,...



hey now, of course she started out really powerful, but that was because she had been intensly training with the founders of freaking earthbending for years.


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 23, 2011)

How will M Night screw up the pronounciation of Korra's name? 
(please don't let that abomination ever get this far).


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I can't believe Bud (Married with Children) plays the kid at the end. If IMDB is correct, that is.



Right?  Should be interesting.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Fenix Down said:


> How will M Night screw up the pronounciation of Korra's name?
> (please don't let that abomination ever get this far).



Screw that. Shyamalan will never get his hands on Korra. Or Book Two.

Ah, I see your white text.


----------



## Jena (Jul 23, 2011)

N??ps said:


> hey now, of course she started out really powerful, but that was because she had been intensly training with the founders of freaking earthbending for years.



Yup.
I didn't say that it didn't make sense for her to be hyperpowerful, I just said that she _was_.

That's not meant to sound snarky or angry, FYI.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

incorrect, he plays mako, the skinny brother. The guy at the end is Bolin.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 23, 2011)

That trailer looks amazing, and I hope that this means that the premiere date for the new series is approaching. I hope that the series explains how Korra is already capable of bending more than one element at the beginning of the series, and I am rather displeased that she has mastered those arts so quickly, as bending was stated (I cannot recall by whom) to be an art that can take a long time to master.

Apart from that, it is good to see that Korra has companions in her quest, and it is very interesting to see that they are brothers who bend different elements. I am rather disappointed that they are elements that could be considered "allied" elements, rather than being elements that are diametrically opposed to each other, but I am glad to see that, for the first time, members of the same family are capable of bending different elements.

I now am very excited for the new series, so I hope that more information is revealed about it soon.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 23, 2011)

The one car and truck that was shown did definitely look like something from the 1920's. Not sure what they looked like from memory with all those Social Studies textbooks I had to read back in the late 80s/early 90's so I had to consult Google images.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

BB KORRA






AANG'S GRANDBABIES





better quality Bolin/Mako




Closeup of Toph's daughter




Not quite sure who these are.



I dunno why the second one isn't working right, but the link is:
SECRET JAPAN OFFICIAL SITE


Apparently Bryke said only Bolin will end up with a romance?  Which I'm cool with because I think I like him better already.   I don't think I can do a Zuko Lite.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

Wait, Korra is from the Water Tribes, but knew firebending as a small child? Either she's the greatest Avatar ever or something's amiss.


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 23, 2011)

I love how much they've shown how much she loves Bestbending*, even going back to when she was a tyke. 

*Firebending, i mean.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2011)

> That trailer looks amazing, and I hope that this means that the premiere date for the new series is approaching. I hope that the series explains how Korra is already capable of bending more than one element at the beginning of the series, and I am rather displeased that she has mastered those arts so quickly, as bending was stated (I cannot recall by whom) to be an art that can take a long time to master.


Aang pretty much mastered the elements in a few months (or was it one year?). She's 16+ and it looks like she is extremely capable.

I hope she's tough as nails. It would be friggin' awesome. pek



> Wait, Korra is from the Water Tribes, but knew firebending as a small child? Either she's the greatest Avatar ever or something's amiss.


She probably traveled, or maybe there is a Firebender present?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 23, 2011)

I am rather disappointed at how the brothers Bolin and Mako have names that are completely dissimilar, but perhaps they shall also have drastically different personalities from each other, as well?

And I also agree that Korra being able to bend fire at such a young age is improbable, as she is from the Water Tribe. Does her stomach (as a child) seem to be too large for a child to anyone here? I certainly believe so.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 23, 2011)

2 seasons makes some sense since it must be costing Nickelodeon good money to make the show.

Live-action such as Icarly must cost less and they are able to make more episodes


----------



## hehey (Jul 23, 2011)

Are Bolin and Mako necessarily even real brothers, perhaps they are just best buddies who call themselves brothers but really aren't.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2011)

TOPH HAS A DAUGHTER!? WHO IS THE FATHER?

The Duke....?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

My name's Tyler and my brother's name is Josh.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Aang pretty much mastered the elements in a few months (or was it one year?). She's 16+ and it looks like she is extremely capable.
> 
> I hope she's tough as nails. It would be friggin' awesome. pek
> 
> ...



Yes, that could be true, but it still is a bothersome plot device that appears far too often for my liking, as a character who can master a complex art in a relatively brief duration is an insult to peopel who spend their entire lvies mastering an art.



Terra Branford said:


> TOPH HAS A DAUGHTER!? WHO IS THE FATHER?
> 
> The Duke....?



I would prefer that Haru be the father, as I believe that he and Toph would be a great couple.



Stunna said:


> My name's Tyler and my brother's name is Josh.



I strongly recommend against revealing your real name on the internet, and I cannot argue with the choices of whoever gave you and your brother your names. However, I was merely stating my preference; if I have children, I shall give them names that are very similar, and in any stories that I write, members of the same family will have names that follow a pattern, to show that they are members of the same family.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am rather disappointed at how the brothers Bolin and Mako have names that are completely dissimilar, but perhaps they shall also have drastically different personalities from each other, as well?
> 
> And I also agree that Korra being able to bend fire at such a young age is improbable, as she is from the Water Tribe. Does her stomach (as a child) seem to be too large for a child to anyone here? I certainly believe so.



Not at all.  Lots of little kids have little belly pudge at that age.  Even when they look rather thin, and then.. babyfat.  I used to work at a day care, she looks completely normal to me.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 23, 2011)

The swift mastering of elements is one of my complaints from the past series.


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> TOPH HAS A DAUGHTER!? WHO IS THE FATHER?
> 
> The Duke....?



The Boulder


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> *TOPH HAS A DAUGHTER!?* WHO IS THE FATHER?
> 
> The Duke....?




 

I was waiting for you to notice...



DemonDragonJ said:


> I am rather disappointed at how the brothers Bolin and Mako have names that are completely dissimilar, but perhaps they shall also have drastically different personalities from each other, as well?
> 
> And I also agree that Korra being able to bend fire at such a young age is improbable, as she is from the Water Tribe. *Does her stomach (as a child) seem to be too large for a child to anyone here? I certainly believe so.*



That little Buddha there?   Nah - tis normal.


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

Bolin and his eyebrows. :>


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

NEW LEMURS!


AND FIRE FERRETT!


----------



## Koi (Jul 23, 2011)

SKY BISON RETURN!






D'you think they chose to make the Aang statue really young-looking on purpose?  Or was he just like Michael J. Fox and never aged past like sixteen?



Also, I'm guessing this is the first time she meets Bolin and Mako?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that could be true, but it still is a bothersome plot device that appears far too often for my liking, as a character who can master a complex art in a relatively brief duration is an insult to peopel who spend their entire lvies mastering an art.
> 
> I would prefer that Haru be the father, as I believe that he and Toph would be a great couple.



Its likely to  happen, especially if she's got a Toph attitude or w "extreme Toph" attitude. I think its awesome, really, really awesome. I was hoping for a serious, butt kicking girl and I finally got one delivered in the most beautiful art I have seen in a really really long time :33

Haru!? That dude is three thousand years older than Toph! 

She sound signs of something between The Duke :33

*Ahem...fan girl out lol*



Soul Assassin said:


> I was waiting for you to notice...



I notice everything that is related to my Toph pek

@thebouldercomment:



Is Korra going to get the Fire Ferret! :amazed


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 23, 2011)

Koi said:


> Bolin and his eyebrows. :>



I find heavy eyebrows to be unattractive, but hopefully, Bolin has an awesome personality so that his physical appearance is irrelevant.



N??ps said:


> EDIT: on a related note, where the hell is DDJ?



I thank you for your concern; it is good to know that other users here care about me. pek

I have not posted until now because I have been very busy today; my birthday was earlier this week, but my family could not celebrate it until today, so we had a party today at my house, so I was away from my computer interacting with our guests and having a good time. Then, after our guests had departed, my brother and I went to a movie theater to see _Captain America: the First Avenger,_ which, I would like to add, was a completely awesome film, so it is only now that I have been able to post in this thread.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm liking the fire ferrets...alright - I like ferrets anywho.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 23, 2011)

> I find heavy eyebrows to be unattractive, but hopefully, Bolin was an awesome personality so that his physical appearance is irrelevant.



What's wrong with his eyebrows? They seem normal too me. Not every soul on the planet, even the Avatar world, will look like a model or somethin'. 

I think Bolin looks so handsome! He's funny (from what I saw lol), he's got a great looking smile, a wonderful looking personality and even better...he's an Earth bender! THAT IS SO FRIGGIN' AWESOME!

**

@Soul Assassin:
I love ferrets too. I had the luck of holding one...so soft, so adorable! :33

Will this one be able to spit fire? It would remind me of Cyndaquil from Pokemon if it can lol



> And I also agree that Korra being able to bend fire at such a young age is improbable, as she is from the Water Tribe. Does her stomach (as a child) seem to be too large for a child to anyone here? I certainly believe so.



Kids that age tend to have bellies like that.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 23, 2011)

Well Happy Birthday, DDJ.


Korra knowing Firebending confirms what I interpreted earlier: her personality led to a natural affinity for firebending.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

Dude... dude... finally, a character i can cosplay as!
Sure im probably a bit taller than he is, but dude, its perfect.


----------



## Jena (Jul 23, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am rather disappointed at how the brothers Bolin and Mako have names that are completely dissimilar, but perhaps they shall also have drastically different personalities from each other, as well?


Somone already responded to the little kid thing, so...

I can see where you're coming from where in fiction many siblings have similiar names, but IRL (in my experience) most siblings only have similiar names if their twins. Children usually have radicially different names.

Unless you live in my creepy family, where my parents insisted that my brother, me, and our dog have the exact same initials and first names close to the same length.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that could be true, but it still is a bothersome plot device that appears far too often for my liking, as a character who can master a complex art in a relatively brief duration is an insult to peopel who spend their entire lvies mastering an art.


Although it has a lot of adult fans, Avatar is primarily a show for children. It's boring to watch people train in real time. That's why they usually only show a little of the training and then move on to something else.



> I would prefer that Haru be the father, as I believe that he and Toph would be a great couple.






> I strongly recommend against revealing your real name on the internet, and I cannot argue with the choices of whoever gave you and your brother your names.


Which is good advice, but he only revelead his _first_ name, which also happens to be very common. If a stalker somehow even found out what town he lived in, said stalker would have to sift through the 30 or so Tylers that innevitably live in the same area.


----------



## Burke (Jul 23, 2011)

DDJ said:
			
		

> I am rather disappointed at how the brothers Bolin and Mako have names that are completely dissimilar, but perhaps they shall also have drastically different personalities from each other, as well?



Yes, Bolin is goofy, and Mako is, as jove put it, zuko-lite, as far as brooding goes. Although they seemingly both share a passion to fight.


----------



## Wan (Jul 23, 2011)

OH SWEET MOTHER OF THE USA

Trailer=awesome.  Designs=awesome.  Setting=awesome.  Everything=AWESOME.

I shall borrow a phrase from Mark Oshiro:  _Everything is wonderful and nothing hurts._

Mass Effect 3 used to be my most anticipated event of 2012 but NO.  That would be LEGEND OF KORRA.

I just love everything.  The more up-close-and-personal approach to fighting.  The steampunk/Roarin' 20s setting.  The CONTINUATION of one of the BEST TV SHOWS of ALL TIME.

Someone take me to the hospital, I've had an Avatar anticipation overdose!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)




----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

So its *confirmed* that's Toph's daughter?

I hope Bolin can fight really good, that would make him even awesomer-er in my eyes. An earthbending, kick-butt, funny, original looking character. :33

Also, what's up with the new Lemurs? Are they northern or opposite of whatever Momo was...?

EDIT:
Mako looks more like Jet than Zuko, me thinks... 

Also, Korra looks absolutely gorgeous! pek


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Korrasexual


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

You must spread some Reputation before giving it to Ms. Jove again.


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> ❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Korrasexual


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> ❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Korrasexual


Basically.

I'm have a lot of inappropriate thoughts right now.  


Also, did we ever find out what happened to Smellerbee and Longshot?


Height chart!


Mako concept art!


Korra faces!  She vaguely resembles Sokka.


Mako faces.. and he reminds me Dante Basco LOLOL


NM JUST MEELO


Mako costume designs.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh for fuck's sake.


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

Eh, ive got nothing better to do at midnight, lemme go back and gather all the pics.


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 24, 2011)

I have a feeling that this will be even better than TLA.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Oh for fuck's sake.



That was extremely, extremely fast... 

EDIT:
She's putting her spirit animal-thing in danger! You shouldn't be anywhere near cars with an animal! Everyone knows this!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

For some reason I doubt that, but I'm always happy to be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Iria (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm Korrako shipping already.

Or maybe Korrko.

Marra?



Will Zutarians finally have our fire and water?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh, come on.


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 24, 2011)

Aren't they supposed to be brothers?


----------



## Iria (Jul 24, 2011)

oh wow


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)




----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Brothers. 



Ms. Jove said:


> Oh, come on.



This will not be buried on the last page. They are already crack shipping. Avatarlings are special.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

omg ;___;


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Oh, come on.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Shade (Jul 24, 2011)

My god, Zutara drama all over again.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

That little girl is _adorable._


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 24, 2011)

To go from revulsion to HNNNNNNGGGGGGGing in a second flat. This show.


----------



## Iria (Jul 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> omg ;___;



d'awww this is precious :33


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

I THINK I STAN FOR BOLIN ALREADY.



Anyone know what this symbol means?



MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELOOOO


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

1. It would be super cool if people could spoiler pictures.

2. That kid has derp face, bad.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

The little girl with the brown hair and the bun on the one side kinda looks like a character I've seen before, what where? 

I saw a lot of Mako concept art, unless those were other characters? 

Oh snap! Aang's grandson has a HUGE head 



> I'm Korrako shipping already.
> 
> Or maybe Korrko.
> 
> Marra?


Nopes.

It is Borra.


----------



## Iria (Jul 24, 2011)

OMG if the heroine ends up with another bubbly quirky short guy I'm gunna strangle a small invertebrate


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

I personally would prefer romance not play a part in Korra's life.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

No, Korra should end up with _me._


----------



## Jena (Jul 24, 2011)

WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE? WE DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE CHARACTERS EXCEPT WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AND WHAT ELEMENT THEY BEND AND YOU'RE _ALREADY_ SHIPPING THEM?

Well, I guess this _is_ the internet.

Although I can already tell there is going to be Kataang vs. Zutara v. 2.0 with Katara and her two male companions.


----------



## hehey (Jul 24, 2011)

not too much romance i hope, plz to the gods/


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Idk, I just tend to dislike the ~brooding male hero.  And something about the other reminds me  vaguely of, say.. Dayakka, from TTGL, who I loved.


----------



## Iria (Jul 24, 2011)

She's 16-17. Theres gotta be a WHOLE LOT of civil unrest for her not to at least think about it.

But be warned all you anti-shippers, even if there isnt anything in the canon, you won't be able to stop us cracky fangirls


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

She could be asexual. Or play for the other team.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

How about we OT3 and call it a day?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Jena said:


> WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE? WE DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE CHARACTERS EXCEPT WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AND WHAT ELEMENT THEY BEND AND YOU'RE _ALREADY_ SHIPPING THEM?
> 
> Well, I guess this _is_ the internet.
> 
> Although I can already tell there is going to be Kataang vs. Zutara v. 2.0 with Katara and her two male companions.



I wasn't being serious, but I do like Bolin and Korra  But I wouldn't really care either way as long as Korra kicks ass (more so than the two boys lol) and Bolin is amazing. :33


----------



## Jena (Jul 24, 2011)

Iria said:


> She's 16-17. Theres gotta be a WHOLE LOT of civil unrest for her not to at least think about it.
> 
> But be warned all you anti-shippers, even if there isnt anything in the canon, you won't be able to stop us cracky fangirls



I'll wait until at least after the first episode to start shipping. 


They'll probably have romance, or at least hints. It's popular with the fans. The love triangle even more so.



@Terra: You're fine, lol. That was more directed at the people already drawing fanart.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Shipping is in the DNA of Avatar. There is no separating them, and they are naturally intertwined. This is good. In fact...


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

I will admit, though.. it will be lolarious if Mako is just like, 'Yeah I'm too busy brooding to be interested in girls, sry2say.'


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Sounds like Sasuke. Do not want.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

I can't stop staring at Korra's shoulders.


Also


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

@Koi:
Why? They look normal to me...


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

Ok guys, what do you think.
Should we call the group the Korral?
How about the Korra-van...


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

How about the "Korrew"? Korra + Crew.


----------



## Jena (Jul 24, 2011)

This thread is my Korrcaine.

Thanks for posting all the comic con stuff, Koi. pek


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh korrap...


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm going korrazy!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Man, these jokes are korrany.


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

4th one on the way!
heres how i see it. She gives birth, then names it something that pleases the fans (psst, like _aang_)
/series end


----------



## ElementX (Jul 24, 2011)

Trailer is awesome. Thread is awesome. Everything is awesome at the moment. 

I wonder what they're going to do to make Mako different from Zuko? If he ends up as just the brooding firebender I think there is going to be some backlash from people. 

Aang's grandkids are cute... even though I sense Meelo is going to be either funny and adorable or _really_ annoying.


----------



## Taurus Versant (Jul 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> I can't stop staring at Korra's shoulders.
> 
> 
> Also



korraandherbitches.jpg


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

I hope Korra physically abuses them. That would be hilarious.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

^ It absolutely would! pek



N??ps said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who is that....?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

I think that's Tenzin's wife.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Tenzin's wife!   I was actually gonna post that.

Anyone think the other three could be triplets?


----------



## masterriku (Jul 24, 2011)

Tenzin's wife


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Tenzin's wife.

Edit:  Gah! Ninja'd x3!


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

She looks different in that piece from the others me thinks... 

I want to hear more about Toph's daughter! All I know is that Toph opened a metalbending police academy


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Yes. Her name is Pema (maybe Peema). She's produced three airbenders... the discipline's revival starts with her!


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

I think she (Toph's daughter) might play a big part in the series.  She seems to be in the preliminary drawing for the teaser poster.


..You mean, three airbenders _so far_.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Odd...


We heard nothing about descendents from Zuko and Mai...


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Odd...
> 
> 
> We heard nothing about descendents from Zuko and Mai...



Maybe we'll know by the end of the week? Or maybe they...don't exist.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Forget about Zuko's offspring, I want to know about what became of his mother. Maybe in an unrelated EU comic or something?


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 24, 2011)

They founded the city on where Zuko found her remains.


----------



## Lilykt7 (Jul 24, 2011)

lost my shit and watched the trailer 4 times with my friends via google+ lol now we're watching the last episode of atla again


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Fenix Down said:


> They founded the city on where Zuko found her.


Wait, seriously? For the past three years I always thought Zuko's search for Ursa was going to be mysterious and conspiracy related.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Hm.  Speaking of, I'd love to know how the international politics changed.  Specifically, if there is still a Fire Lord.  And how Omashu is doing.  I wonder how the industrialization changed that city.


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

What industrialization?  Some crazy old dude chucked everything out of the city that the engineers from United Republic tried to build...


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> What industrialization?  Some crazy old dude chucked everything out of the city that the engineers from United Republic tried to build...



He's long dead now so it would have to be a new crazy old dude. And odds are the changes have effected Omashu too.


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Hey, Kyoshi lived to be over 200, so why not Bumi?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

And I wonder what ultimately happened to everyone's favorite princess, Azula. I wonder if she was ever rehabilitated. I swear, they better give us some EU material!


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Wait, seriously? For the past three years I always thought Zuko's search for Ursa was going to be mysterious and conspiracy related.



It was just a guess. I remember hearing about how a comic would detail his search, and figured that ending it with him founding the city where he found her (mysteries and conspiracies still in play of course). It would be a nice bridge to the next series. 



Koi said:


> Hm.  Speaking of, I'd love to know how the international politics changed.  Specifically, if there is still a Fire Lord.  And how Omashu is doing.  I wonder how the industrialization changed that city.



I hope we get to see Ba Sing Say.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Mordin Solus said:


> Hey, Kyoshi lived to be over 200, so why not Bumi?


Because Kyoshi was special! Bumi can't take the  special from Kyoshi!


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Because Kyoshi was special! Bumi can't take the  special from Kyoshi!



But...but...Bumi's special too.


----------



## Waveblade (Jul 24, 2011)

MY BODY WAS NOT READY


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 24, 2011)

Holy shit,finally..

And it all looks so good.

Heck,even the shippers are back in full force!

This should be interesting..


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

I wonder if Hawky had babies.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 24, 2011)

Guys, there's a special series of comics that will be published by Dark Horse which will chronicle everything that happened at the end of the series to Korra's timeline. Try to swallow your disappointment if you don't see everything that you wanted to know animated.


----------



## Jena (Jul 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> I wonder if Hawky had babies.



Koh x Hawky OTP


----------



## Lilykt7 (Jul 24, 2011)

wuuuuuuuuuuuuut. OMG YES.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> How about we OT3 and call it a day?


----------



## Lilykt7 (Jul 24, 2011)

this fandom is so crazy i love it


----------



## Jena (Jul 24, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


>



I spat up my water.


----------



## Waveblade (Jul 24, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


>



Korra is pimpin'. It is known.


----------



## Taurus Versant (Jul 24, 2011)

Korra has all of the bitches.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 24, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


>



SO FAST!!

So goddamn fast.. 

And Bolin is manning the rear gun I see..


----------



## Bolliewolliepoepapas (Jul 24, 2011)

Just struck me that we don't see Korra earth bending in the trailer. She doesn't know how yet?


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 24, 2011)

Bolliewolliepoepapas said:


> Just struck me that we don't see Korra earth bending in the trailer. She doesn't know how yet?



She knows, there just wasn't a clip in the trailer with her demonstrating any Earthbending moves. Can you wait until next year for another trailer where clips from all 12 completed episodes will be shown?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> SKY BISON RETURN!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sure they modeled that statue of Aang at the age of his greatest moment in the war.



Soul Assassin said:


> I'm liking the fire ferrets...alright - I like ferrets anywho.


It looks like a red panda and a ferret had babies


Koi said:


> I THINK I STAN FOR BOLIN ALREADY.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know what this symbol means?


That looks like Ping, means eveness, peace, flat, level

I'm guessing it's related to the Equalization movement, because when Ping is attached to 等 deng, which also means equal, and rank, it makes the word equal, and when attached to 定 ding, to settle, or fix, it means to stabilize 

With fan, it's ordinary

with heng, it's balance, equilibrium.

Ping is used in a lot of words (commoner, safety, tranquill,supress, calm down...) that could stand for their cause, so I'm guessing they want to encompass all meanings by just using Ping, which by itself, makes sense, by basically meaning to level the playing field in the world affairs. Even that mask can be described as Ping.

I'm digging the industrialization, it does look like early 20th century Shanghai. A few years after the British imperialism it seems similar to.

Even in real world China, the modernization was quite drastic.


----------



## Glued (Jul 24, 2011)

Nice trailer, looks awesome.



DracoStorm said:


> That was kinda disappointing.  The designs look really generic (I know they're Americans copying Anime, but it does look like DevaintArt fan characters) and I dislike how they might play Korra like some Kim Possible with her two idiot male sidekicks.  I just hope they don't fall into the pitfall of denying anything girly about her like they did before.  It's the main problem with female superheros; they're just men with boobs, which is kinda lame.  America seems to still be behind when it comes to writing for females.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 24, 2011)

In the past several days, there has been so much activity in this thread that Noops has gone from being forty posts behind me in terms of posts in this thread to only six. I know that I cannot surpass Terra Branford, Jove, or Reikai Demon in terms of posts in this thread, but I can at least ensure that no one surpasses me for fourth place.



Stunna said:


> I hope Korra physically abuses them. That would be hilarious.



How would that be hilarious? Physical abuse is a very serious subject, and people often are very traumatized by in actuality. Or were you somehow using a light definition of the term "abuse?" On that subject, I see very often in Japanese animation, and recently in western animation, as well, the lead female character will often treat the lead male character in a very hostile manner: Chi-Chi and Goku in _Dragon Ball,_ Sakura and Naruto in _Naruto,_ Kagome and Inuyasha in _Inuyasha,_ plus numerous other series, as well. Why do the male characters tolerate such behavior? I certainly would not, if I were in those situations. If the male characters were the ones who were abusing the females, most people in the audience would dislike that, so why is such behavior tolerated when female characters demonstrate it toward male characters?

As for Toph having a daughter, that is very interesting; I wonder if she is also an earthbender, and, as she is already very old, if she has any children of her own?

As for the brothers Bolin and Mako, if Mako is similar to Zuko in personality, I expect that I may grow to be very fond of him, as Zuko was my favorite character from the original series.



Zen-aku said:


>



Very nice, indeed.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Screenshots for my arbitrary analysis. They are merely frames I really liked:


HD trailer were?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2011)

That looks like the Golden Gate Bridge


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 24, 2011)

Linkdarkside said:


> HD trailer were?


What if America did Harry Potter?

Begun the shipping wars have


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Linkdarkside said:


> HD trailer were?



This is as good as it gets right now: What if America did Harry Potter?




ReikaiDemon said:


> That looks like the Golden Gate Bridge



I'm trying to think... what was the highest caliber bridge in A:tLA? The one connecting the platform to Ran and Shaw's caves? Nothing like this, though...



Hey Rekky, what goes through your mind when you see explanations like "Shanghai Dickens" for the setting and "in the 20's if the Chinese invented Jazz" for the music?


----------



## LoT (Jul 24, 2011)

Can someone rehost the trailer? Can't see it here in germany


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 24, 2011)

Korra looks cool but the steampunk world seems sort of static and lifeless.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 24, 2011)

LoT said:


> Can someone rehost the trailer? Can't see it here in germany


[YOUTUBE]m_VkHYtS6MY[/YOUTUBE]



> Korra looks cool but the steampunk world seems sort of static and lifeless.


We've barely seen anything yet. Way too early to make that judgement.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> This is as good as it gets right now: What if America did Harry Potter?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Little street urchins with Ques who use them to trip the Bobbies?

Uh, sharp dressed gang members with Mauser pistols?

I dunno.

I haven't heard the music yet, but I can imagine it.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


>


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Bridge reference point debate is ongoing. Some have considered the GGB, like Rekky. I'm pretty convinced by the proponents of the Brooklyn Bridge.







Manhattan Bridge is another intriguing one, with it's metalwork:




Time to do some research. There goes my Sunday.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

The artbook is going to come out and Bryke is going to say that they referenced some bridge we've never heard of.   Or that they just looked at suspension bridges in general and threw all their ideas into one.


----------



## Pseudo (Jul 24, 2011)

The teaser was cool,I guess. Who are the baddies this time?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> The teaser was cool,I guess. Who are the baddies this time?



They're called the Equalists, and they use the same chi-blocking technique popularized by Ty Lee. They're lead by some guy named Omar, and they's anti-benders.


----------



## Narcissus (Jul 24, 2011)

Just saw the trailer. Very exciting.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

I love this fandom.


ONLY ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Jul 24, 2011)

Wait, just noticed at the end of the trailer - instead of the title being Avatar: The Legend of Korra, it's 
The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra? 

wtf?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

That sort of irks me now too. Is 'The Last Airbender' now the main title for the entire franchise now? If so that makes no sense, cause' Tenzin and his family are airbenders.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Blame James Cameron.


No, really.  Go on.  It's his fault.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Well, to be fair, he did come up with _his_ 'Avatar' thing first. But I think the cartoon deserves the title more.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Except that's like copyrighting the word 'Angel' or 'Pharaoh' or 'Lama'.  It's not a word he came up with himself, it's a Hindu concept that's been around for thousands of years.  And they have entirely different applications between the two franchises.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Then what's stopping Michael and Bryan from continuing to use it? It fits their series so much better.


----------



## LoT (Jul 24, 2011)

I wonder why there is still no BluRay of the original Series.


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

Ah i think i understand how this is going to play out.
The series will start with korra learning her third element, fire. I see evidence in that first screencap that that is the armor her tutor is having her wear.
Then Something along the lines of. "i need to learn air blah blah blah oh the last avatars son is in the city blah blah blah."


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Well, to be fair, he did come up with _his_ 'Avatar' thing first. But I think the cartoon deserves the title more.



He doesn't own the word Avatar though...


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

Swear to god this is me. pek
I MUST LEARN HOW TO COSPLAY


----------



## Iria (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh man now that Avatar thing is bugging me too. I understand not using it for a movie title but for tv series that would have included the "Legend of Korra" descriptor thats just wrong. 

Shame on you Jimmy Cam if this is your doing! 



ReikaiDemon said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh wow that makes perfect sense.

Thanks for the info  


Superstarseven said:


> Guys, there's a special series of comics that will be published by Dark Horse which will chronicle everything that happened at the end of the series to Korra's timeline. Try to swallow your disappointment if you don't see everything that you wanted to know animated.



Wait, is this substantiated? When will this be released?


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

Iria said:


> Wait, is this substantiated? When will this be released?



Yes it is substantiated, and... i dunno, it'll come out before the show does. :/


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

> Guys, there's a special series of comics that will be published by Dark Horse which will chronicle everything that happened at the end of the series to Korra's timeline. Try to swallow your disappointment if you don't see everything that you wanted to know animated.


Sounds awesome to me :33

Hopefully though something about Sokka and Toph will be explained. 


Is this official, or fanart?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Comics come out early 2012. 




As for Korra learning firebending, I believe it was stated yesterday that air is the only element that she needs to learn.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Awesome, expanded universe!


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Is that the same book that was supposed to come out this month?  Or is that another one?


Also, it looks like Korra's getting in trouble with the law for some reason or another.  From the screencaps she's obviously fighting those metalbender cops.  Maybe something related to pro bending?



N??ps said:


> Swear to god this is me. pek
> I MUST LEARN HOW TO COSPLAY



I think we need proof..


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

all i need to do is form my hair that way and were good.
im a stocky goofy guy with large eyebrows 
thing is im tall, but i can make this work


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Thank goodness the comics will be out early 2012. The wait for Korra shouldn't be a completely lonely one. xD


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 24, 2011)

According to the Avatar Wiki, the non-Chi Blocking Equalists are the ones wearing Splinter Cell combat suits. Could they be steampunk quasi-power armor that lets them fight on equal standing to benders?

The one fighting Korra in the trailer seemed to be doing quite well.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Oman is a boss. I already like him more than Ozai.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Oman is a boss. I already like him more than Ozai.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Dat           mask.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Oman is a boss. I already like him more than Ozai.



Ozai was willing to beat on children to win his battles. Ozai is pretty evil


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Just watch, I bet there's going to be an episode where Oman devours a bunch of orphans and puppies.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> As for Korra learning firebending, I believe it was stated yesterday that air is the only element that she needs to learn.



Will there be an explanation for how she learned firebending and earthbending? I would find it to be very unfortunate if such details were never revealed in the series.


----------



## Darth (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm curious. How will people recognize her as the Avatar? I mean, Aang had it rough with an arrow on his head and arms, but Korra doesn't seem to look anything other than your average buff as hell waterbending chick. 

Until she starts bending more than one element at a time, she'll probably go unnoticed.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

I wonder if those were her parents and if so, why she looks so sad. Anyone think she might have been kicked out or something (village vote or maybe the parents felt that way?)? 



DemonDragonJ said:


> Will there be an explanation for how she learned firebending and earthbending? I would find it to be very unfortunate if such details were never revealed in the series.



It probably won't _show_ us how she learned them, maybe just an explanation for it or a few, small flashbacks...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Ozai was willing to beat on children to win his battles. Ozai is pretty evil



Yes, I agree; Ozai and Azula were extremely good (at being evil) villains, so Oman will have a difficult task of comparing to them, in my mind, but I am certain that the story writers can achieve such a feat if they put their best effort into doing so.



Terra Branford said:


> It probably won't _show_ us how she learned them, maybe just an explanation for it or a few, small flashbacks...



Yes, that is what I myself was imagining; that seems to be the best way to explain those details.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

By no means do I mean to say that Ozai was a bad or disappointing villain; I was just stating my immense interest in Oman.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I wonder if those were her parents and if so, why she looks so sad. Anyone think she might have been kicked out or something (village vote or maybe the parents felt that way?)?



Well, she has to learn three other elements.  Or, at the very least, she has to seek out the ONE living airbender, you know?  Even if she knows Fire and Earth she still has to find Tenzin, so maybe that's why she's leaving?  I mean, the guy's probably in demand.  I doubt he has time to go _to_ the Water tribes, but I hope the nations have become more codependent anyway.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> Well, she has to learn three other elements.  Or, at the very least, she has to seek out the ONE living airbender, you know?  Even if she knows Fire and Earth she still has to find Tenzin, so maybe that's why she's leaving?  I mean, the guy's probably in demand.  I doubt he has time to go _to_ the Water tribes, but I hope the nations have become more codependent anyway.



Yes, that's definitely the reason for her leaving, but something just seems fishy about the scene. 

Oh wells, I suppose we'll find out next year. lol


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

..I wonder what Tenzin actually does, though.  Like.. he probably lives in United Republic but, doing what?  He doesn't have anyone to teach except Korra.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

So Tenzin's kids can't airbend either? Not even one of them?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

I assumed he lived in an Air Temple. I realize how little sense that makes since most of the show takes place in the United Republic, but still.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 24, 2011)

Republic City is a painfully stupid name. I'm going to be wincing at its use 26 episodes from now. An Avatar also feels a little redundant in a more modern world setting and people adgitating for equal rights with Benders isn't going to help that.

Intrestingly Korra seems really keen on Fire Bending. She does't use anyting else which is unusual for a water avatar since its her natural opposing element. But maybe Air will be the one she has the most trouble with.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Republic City was renamed United Republic. I'm satisfied with either.


----------



## Darth (Jul 24, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Republic City is a painfully stupid name. I'm going to be wincing at its use 26 episodes from now. An Avatar also feels a little redundant in a more modern world setting and people adgitating for equal rights with Benders isn't going to help that.
> 
> Intrestingly Korra seems really keen on Fire Bending. She does't use anyting else which is unusual for a water avatar since its her natural opposing element. But maybe Air will be the one she has the most trouble with.



Republic City as a name is perfectly fine for a show airing on Nicktoons. I personally don't see anything wrong with the name. The city itself exists to separate cultural boundaries set by the 4 nations, so giving it a cultural name would be hypocritical.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 24, 2011)

Clearly Toph's daughter is also the daughter of Iroh. The facial features just scream it.


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 24, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Clearly Toph's daughter is also the daughter of Iroh. The facial features just scream it.


Don't. Just don't.

On a lighter note...

A metalbending police force sounds amazing.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but the guy who made this was present at Comi-con:


*Spoiler*: __ 





> My ‘main event’ at Comic-Con was defintely the Legend of Korra panel which I waited four hours for. It seems Nickelodeon finally decided to throw us Last Airbender fans a bone this year at the San Diego Comic-Con. Not only did we get to see an amazing trailer, but detailed concept art and a lot of information regarding the upcoming series. First, well start with the key-points they unloaded on us:
> 
> * The new time period takes place 70 years after Aang and his allies restored peace to the world.
> * A core theme in the show is airbender spirituality.
> ...





Source: click here

Paboo! Its such a cute name for the ferret! So Aang had other kids!? Awesome! So the Republic City was founded by Aang and Zuko? I wonder why *that* spot 

Too bad they wouldn't mention Toph's hubby.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 24, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> Don't. Just don't.


What? Don't declare the obvious truth?! 


Terra Branford said:


> Too bad they wouldn't mention Toph's hubby.


Why state the obvious?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Why state the obvious?



Yea, we all know it was The Duke. :ho

I wonder where Aang's other kids are, and if they will be shown and whether or not they will air bend or not. :3


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

Toph's daughter was immaculate.  She accumulated too much sheer awesome within her tiny little body and had to let some of it out somehow, for risk of decimating everything around her due to overexposure of that much pure awesome.  So, Toph's daughter doesn't have a father.  She's 50% Toph, 50% undiluted awesome.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Yea, we all know it was The Duke. :ho


 Despite his name, The Duke is too lowly to marry Toph.

Iroh is the only worthy option. pek


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Why are you guys still calling it Republic City? It's United Republic now.


And there is not one shred of Duke influence in that magnificent specimen. Koi got the genealogy; you guys need to listen in deference to her.


I'm a little confused by when that guy says...



> It seems Nickelodeon finally decided to throw us Last Airbender fans a bone this year at the San Diego Comic-Con.



This is balderdash. Nickelodeon gave us quite a bit at SDCC every year that the show aired.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

@Jove:

I think he meant by finally giving us a trailer for Korra 



> Toph's daughter was immaculate. She accumulated too much sheer awesome within her tiny little body and had to let some of it out somehow, for risk of decimating everything around her due to overexposure of that much pure awesome. So, Toph's daughter doesn't have a father. She's 50% Toph, 50% undiluted awesome.


I could agree with that one. :33


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> Toph's daughter was immaculate.  She accumulated too much sheer awesome within her tiny little body and had to let some of it out somehow, for risk of decimating everything around her due to overexposure of that much pure awesome.  So, Toph's daughter doesn't have a father.  She's 50% Toph, 50% undiluted awesome.



Immaculate conception would mean that Toph was pure and sinless.


----------



## Quaero (Jul 24, 2011)

Koi said:


> Toph's daughter was immaculate.  She accumulated too much sheer awesome within her tiny little body and had to let some of it out somehow, for risk of decimating everything around her due to overexposure of that much pure awesome.  So, Toph's daughter doesn't have a father.  She's 50% Toph, 50% undiluted awesome.



So, she is 150% undiluted awesome?


----------



## Kirito (Jul 24, 2011)

I hope Toph's husband was The Duke.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Immaculate conception would mean that Toph was pure and sinless.



As she was. 

But wait... 

She had the audacity to challenge Bumi...


Theory is officially denied.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 24, 2011)

Studio Mir out of Seoul, South Korea is now being tasked with animating the whole series. I know that the animation certainly looked different to me while watching the teaser. The fluidity displayed reminded me of Moi Animation who replaced DR Movie in the 3rd season. Studio Mir looks like they do great work. Also LeSean Thomas who was head character designer of The Boondocks TV series was brought on board as Storyboard artist. 

I don't know if that means anything to anyone else but he's a fine artist and a great addition to the long list of talented people who have worked on the franchise which includes Dave Filoni, Lauren MacMullan, Giancarlo Volpe and a host of other illustrators.


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

i love the activity, makes me nostalgic


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 24, 2011)

Well, we've been given a ton of info that many of us have been waiting a year for. Feels good to indulge in some speculation, analyzing, and straight-up fun. Right now I'm watching that episode of The Simpsons where we saw a shot of Avatar's 4 nation symbols representing the elements in a classroom.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Studio Mir out of Seoul, South Korea is now being tasked with animating the whole series. I know that the animation certainly looked different to me while watching the teaser. The fluidity displayed reminded me of Moi Animation who replaced DR Movie in the 3rd season. Studio Mir looks like they do great work. Also LeSean Thomas who was head character designer of The Boondocks TV series was brought on board as Storyboard artist.
> 
> I don't know if that means anything to anyone else but he's a fine artist and a great addition to the long list of talented people who have worked on the franchise which includes Dave Filoni, Lauren MacMullan, Giancarlo Volpe and a host of other illustrators.



It really seems like they've assembled a legitimately elite team to produce this one. I'm super excited to see how season two pans out when they beef they staff up even further. 

One thing I'm interested in is if they've added any writers since they got the 14 episode bump.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> So Tenzin's kids can't airbend either? Not even one of them?



All three of them are airbenders.


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> They're called the Equalists, and they use the same chi-blocking technique popularized by Ty Lee. They're lead by some guy named Omar, and they's anti-benders.



That would be _Oman._


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

I wish they would release an encyclopedia to cover all the flora and fauna of the 'Avatar' universe.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Or better yet, an encyclopedia to cover all of the Avatar universe. :33


stab-o-tron5000 said:


> All three of them are airbenders.



That's what I thought.  Well then Tenzin will have his kids to teach as well 

Oh! Oh! I wonder if Korra will be learning besides Tenzin's kids. She would probably be really annoyed by that. 



> One thing I'm interested in is if they've added any writers since they got the 14 episode bump.


I read somewhere last night that they kept the original writers (or was it Mike and Bryan?) through the new show.  Or maybe it was for the comic I read about last night


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

What I heard is that Mike and Bryan are writing all the episodes themselves, in order to have a tighter story with 0 filler.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

At the very least, we have the Avatar Wikia, which is top notch and constantly updated. Though they almost never cite any of the information, so unless you specifically know the source of the canon (if it's not directly from an episode), then you just have to take the article at it's word. And that's not a good thing. 


Like, I was just researching Roku today, and in his article they listed his birth year as 82 BSC (Before Sozin's comet). 

They determined this by doing the maths based on his shared birthday with Sozin. Sozin lived to be 102. Since he lived 20 years after the Comet, which would be 12 years after Roku's death/Aang's birth, we was 70 years old when Roku died. Thus, Roku must also be 70. 

Problem is, that info doesn't match up with the birth year-lifespan of Kyoshi; it's 12 years off. It's a rare timeline gaff and it drives me fucking batty. Avatar Wikia moves Kyoshi's birth back 12 years. I say that's bollocks.


So yeah, an official fact book would be great, because they have some things that need explicating.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Oman said:


> What I heard is that Mike and Bryan are writing all the episodes themselves, in order to have a tighter story with 0 filler.



Ah, yes, that's exactly what I read as well. I just could not remember if it was for the comics or for Korra.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

I must know more about this universe! I must have _moar._


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

They said that they would write the entire series before the 14 episode addition came about. I'm curious if they are taking that on by themselves or getting assistance.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> At the very least, we have the Avatar Wikia, which is top notch and constantly updated. Though they almost never cite any of the information, so unless you specifically know the source of the canon (if it's not directly from an episode), then you just have to take the article at it's word. And that's not a good thing.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Sadly most wikias are exactly like that. 

It would be interesting to know the founders of the cities, or maybe some history behind their world, animals, plants, the star system, more about the planet etc etc

EDIT:
lol

Would it be a wrong of me to claim that it looks like Korra is a 'better' fighter than Aang was during the show?


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 24, 2011)

> Problem is, that info doesn't match up with the birth year-lifespan of Kyoshi; it's 12 years off. It's a rare timeline gaff and it drives me fucking batty. Avatar Wikia moves Kyoshi's birth back 12 years. I say that's bollocks.



Twelve years

As in the age of Aang at the time of his disappearance?


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

I do hope Mike and Bryan put their absolute best into the writing.  Honestly, while they were good creators and producers, I don't think M&B were the best writers on the first show.  And I've seen the "story bible" from before the show was made, some of the ideas were...way out there.  But now that they are "seasoned", so to speak, from the first show I trust that they will make a high-quality story.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

What story bible?


----------



## Raiden (Jul 24, 2011)

Amazing animation in the preview.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Oman said:


> I do hope Mike and Bryan put their absolute best into the writing.  Honestly, while they were good creators and producers, I don't think M&B were the best writers on the first show.  And I've seen the "story bible" from before the show was made, some of the ideas were...way out there.  But now that they are "seasoned", so to speak, from the first show I trust that they will make a high-quality story.



Story bible? What do you mean? I've never heard of this...


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> EDIT:
> lol
> 
> Would it be a wrong of me to claim that it looks like Korra is a 'better' fighter than Aang was during the show?



Not at all. 



Stunna said:


> What story bible?



I read it a while ago, but I can't find it online again.  It was really early in the production cycle, when Azula was intended to be a male "Prince Azul" and be Zuko's older brother.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> Twelve years
> 
> As in the age of Aang at the time of his disappearance?



You'd think that, but it's actually just to fit the discrepancy.

Kyoshi was born 400 years before the series began. In their terms, 300 BSC.

She lived to be 230, meaning she died 70 BSC. If Roku died in 12 BSC, that means he should have been 58 when he died.

But he should be 70, since he was born on the same day as Sozin. So instead of saying Kyoshi was born 400 BSC, they list her birth as 412 BSC.

Basically, you assume that the 400 Year figure given by the Kyoshi Warriors is just a rounded number. But that's the thing... we have to assume that.



The other main one I can think of is Azulon's reign. Bryan said he ruled for 75 years. This is totally consistent with everything we know. Sozin died 20 ASC (After Sozin's Comet, their delineation). Azulon died 5-6 years before the show begins, which is 100 ASC.

Problem is, they explictly say in Zuko Alone that Azulon ruled for 23 years. Even now, no one knows why they said that.


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)




----------



## Jena (Jul 24, 2011)

^I love that first one!


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Korra is so awesome! pek Saved it! I know I'll be able to use that in the future


----------



## Koi (Jul 24, 2011)

You guys.  What if Toph married LONGSHOT?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Longshot? Nah, I'm sure he ended up with Smellerbee.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Tumblr is a goldmine right now.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

I have a question about the Avatar series: Is the unblocking of the Chakras the only way that an Avatar can master the Avatar State, or does it come naturally after all the elements have been mastered?


----------



## Kirito (Jul 24, 2011)

so when are the aang vs korra threads gonna start? or the gaang vs team korra gonna begin?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Kirito said:


> so when are the aang vs korra threads gonna start? or the gaang vs team korra gonna begin?



Soon, when *I* see more of Korra.


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Kirito said:


> so when are the aang vs korra threads gonna start? or the gaang vs team korra gonna begin?



When the show gets going.  I can already tell right off the bat that end-of-series Korra will be tougher and a better fighter than end-of-series Aang.


----------



## Burke (Jul 24, 2011)

Kirito said:


> so when are the aang vs korra threads gonna start? or the gaang vs *team korra* gonna begin?



You mean the _Korral_?


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

You mean the _Korrew?_


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm still in favor of Korrew.

Edit: Yo, I've copyrighted that term, Oman.


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I'm still in favor of Korrew.
> 
> Edit: Yo, I've copyrighted that term, Oman.



Then I shall give payment in reps.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 24, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Ah i think i understand how this is going to play out.
> The series will start with korra learning her third element, fire. I see evidence in that first screencap that that is the armor her tutor is having her wear.
> Then Something along the lines of. "i need to learn air blah blah blah oh the last avatars son is in the city blah blah blah."


I think that's her Pro Bending uniform actually.


Terra Branford said:


> Sadly most wikias are exactly like that.
> 
> It would be interesting to know the founders of the cities, or maybe some history behind their world, animals, plants, the star system, more about the planet etc etc
> 
> ...


It would be neat to do it in the style of an ancient chinese book or something, with yellowed pages as if by age.

I would say that's not wrong, but solely because Korra probably isn't as pacifistic as Aang, so she would tend to smash through opponents instead of trying to disable, or lose them.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I have a question about the Avatar series: Is the unblocking of the Chakras the only way that an Avatar can master the Avatar State, or does it come naturally after all the elements have been mastered?


Just in case someone missed my question.


----------



## Jena (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I have a question about the Avatar series: Is the unblocking of the Chakras the only way that an Avatar can master the Avatar State, or does it come naturally after all the elements have been mastered?



Uhh....I dunno. 

I'm guessing that an Avatar has to unblock the chakras and not just master all four elements.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> It would be neat to do it in the style of an ancient chinese book or something, with yellowed pages as if by age.
> 
> I would say that's not wrong, but solely because Korra probably isn't as pacifistic as Aang, so she would tend to smash through opponents instead of trying to disable, or lose them.



That would be neat! It would feel as if it came out of the show. I'm tired of the Book/show/game guidebooks always having a plain color and just the words on the jacket. 

So its safe to say (Toph >) Korra > Aang > Ozai > Sokka > Zuko > Katara > Appa?



> I have a question about the Avatar series: Is the unblocking of the Chakras the only way that an Avatar can master the Avatar State, or does it come naturally after all the elements have been mastered?


Maybe Aang had to do it so he could use the elements as if he _personally_ mastered them? Through the other Avatars?

EDIT:

There is already Korra x Mako fanfictions >.>


----------



## Wan (Jul 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> So its safe to say (Toph >) Korra > Aang > Ozai > Sokka > Zuko > Katara > Appa?



Nay. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Melon Lord, Wang Fire, and Hawky: and these three are one.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Wait, what order is that list in? Strongest to weakest?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Wait, what order is that list in? Strongest to weakest?



> greater than


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

Whatever, I meant to ask if it was ranking them in power.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Whatever, I meant to ask if it was ranking them in power.



Oh, in power. And here is the list of the most epic/awesome characters: Toph > Korra > Bolin > Sokka > Suki > Aang > Momo > Appa > Katara > Zuko


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Toph isn't even the most powerful Earthbender. 


Just talked to a friend of mine for an hour on the phone about Korra. He spent the whole time telling me how he's not buying into it and he thinks Mike and Bryan have made a terrible mistake, going piece-by-piece on why everything sucks and will suck.

I'm almost positive he was trolling me.

I'll have to stop being friends with him anyway, just in case. Well, it's been a fun 17 years, buddy!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

lol, Who said anything about Toph being the best bender?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 24, 2011)

Isn't that the essence of Terra's rankings? Or is it just a bald expression of her Toph fangirlism?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 24, 2011)

She was ranking them in order of favorite characters I thought.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 24, 2011)

> Toph isn't even the most powerful Earthbender.




She bends without seeing with her eyes and can bend metal! Who then? 



Ms. Jove said:


> Isn't that the essence of Terra's rankings? Or is it just a bald expression of her Toph fangirlism?



I am a Toph fangirl, this is true. pek 

Ahem...You are both correct. First one I did was about bending power (not really in "force" power, but in the ability of controlling the elements the best) second one I posted was about my favorites and who I thought was epic.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> She bends without seeing with her eyes and can bend metal! Who then?



Aang. 


Korra v Aang should be an interesting thing to witness in its development. Korra might be more powerful, but I have to see how well her defense is to compare them.


If Korra even bothers with defense.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 25, 2011)

Korrew is my preferred handle for the group.
Korrew vs Gaang prepare for all out war.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

Yesssss, success.

Quick, to Avatar Wiki to claim the name!


----------



## Iria (Jul 25, 2011)

I am having a hard time keeping a set

The gifs are becoming more readily available and the fanart is just exploding and its only been like a day haha 

Also I like the term Korrew too

And the shipping of Mako X Korra is pretty universally being referred to as Makorra. Aww yea


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Is it? I was hoping for Korko. 

So has the other one been decided? I like Korlin, but I bet Boko or Bolko wins out.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> There is already Korra x Mako fanfictions >.>



zutarians are funny


----------



## Iria (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm seeing alot of "Borra" 

But it cant possibly be Makorra and Borra could it

*Sigh* shippers these days

Back in my day we walked uphill in the snow and had distinctive ship names 

EDIT:

yes the delicious fanfics are flowing


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Borra is weak and disheartening. That's not even proper portmanteau.


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

im sure you mean BROlin 


And seeing as bolin is the only one finding love in the series, all of your crack is meaningless


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

sifu zuko? with katara?


----------



## Iria (Jul 25, 2011)

lol crazy fic writers 


@ Joveles, you should help out the poor BROlin (lol) X Korra shippers because they are seriously being lead astray

these are the days when we may potentially solidify our _noms de guerre_ forever!


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

Give AMV makers an inch and theyll take a mile.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T1LYbLQoL4&feature=channel_video_title[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm too mesmerized by Mako's strong jawline. 

Fuck you, Bryke. You knew exactly what you were doing when you birthed that kid. You're just toying with everyone again.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

i .. thought there wasn't gonna be any romance for korra or mako, and only BROlin was gonna get some


----------



## Jena (Jul 25, 2011)

Seriously?



We don't even really know the characters' personalities yet. Sure Mako looks emo, but how do you know he isn't a happy-go-lucky guy who cracks jokes and skips through fields of daises?


----------



## Iria (Jul 25, 2011)

i too am a little worried he might be TOO good looking

plus the delightfully executed scarf and ab fab ensemble

mako...are you 

no 

maybe he just has a keen sense of style and his character will offset his too-goodlookingness



N??ps said:


> Give AMV makers an inch and theyll take a mile.
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T1LYbLQoL4&feature=channel_video_title[/YOUTUBE]



frick awesome 



also where is this "Only Bolin will be gettin some" rumor coming from?


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I'm too mesmerized by Mako's strong jawline.
> 
> Fuck you, Bryke. You knew exactly what you were doing when you birthed that kid. You're just toying with everyone again.



You shouldn't be surprised they have been trolling the fandom since the first season


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

lol even meelo and tenzin are in the action now


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Iria said:


> i too am a little worried he might be TOO good looking
> 
> plus the delightfully executed scarf and ab fab ensemble
> 
> ...




I've been trying to ignore the scarf. You know how excited I get over scarves...


Man, I can just see people dying inside when Mako doesn't canonship with anyone.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

Iria said:


> also where is this "Only Bolin will be gettin some" rumor coming from?



im sure it came from this thread from jove or something

bryke said something like that ... i think


----------



## Iria (Jul 25, 2011)

Ouchies


nuuu


----------



## Koi (Jul 25, 2011)

I.. I want Mako to get with Toph's daughter.

COUGAR ON THE PROWL.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

GAHHH, you had to mention the scarf now I can't stop thinking about it. 

In the midst of a heat wave, I still want to wear it. I want to wear it right now.


I want the scarf to have it's own backstory and quirks.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

there's some korra x oman shipping now

i swear the lifeblood of this series is fangirling and shipping


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I've been trying to ignore the scarf. You know how excited I get over scarves...
> 
> 
> Man, I can just see people dying inside when Mako doesn't canonship with anyone.



You know what.

The more I think about it the more certain I become that this will be _exactly_ what Bryke do. 

Whatever.  I ship Korroman.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> You know what.
> 
> The more I think about it the more certain I become that this will be _exactly_ what Bryke do.
> 
> Whatever.  I ship Korroman.





there you go my korman shipper


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Kirito said:


> there you go my korman shipper



...that doesn't mean I want to see fanart. :S Thanks though.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

You better hope it's actually "Oman." That'll be a precious namechange down the tubes if it's spelled differently. 


I'm preemptively kid-shipping Jinora and the first person her age that we meet.


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> You better hope it's actually "Oman." That'll be a precious namechange down the tubes if it's spelled differently.



...

Bryke don't fail me now!


----------



## Koi (Jul 25, 2011)

I haven't shipped an OT# this hard since LotR.


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Ok, now _that_ is precious.

Goodness, I usually don't care for fanart, but this fandom...:33


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Koi said:


> I haven't shipped an OT# this hard since LotR.



You down with OT3? (Yeah you know me!) *Raises roof*


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Umm...what does OT#/OT3 mean?


----------



## Jena (Jul 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> Umm...what does OT#/OT3 mean?



OTP=One true pairing
OT3= One true three way pairing


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Jena said:


> OTP=One true pairing
> OT3= One true three way pairing



Ah.  Then I'll ship OT3...as a platonic ship.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 25, 2011)

I wanna ride the Brycycle


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Will Zutarians ship Tenzin and Police Chief Bei Fong? This is a crucial development.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow. I just had to catch up with everything and now I'm hyped! That's pretty much all I have to say...

Oh, and Korra is hot.


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Will Zutarians ship Tenzin and Police Chief Bei Fong? This is a crucial development.



Well, since Tenzin is already married, that's the only ship that could be legitimately called "wrong".

It will still happen though.


----------



## Shade (Jul 25, 2011)

Iria said:
			
		

> @ Joveles, you should help out the poor BROlin (lol) X Korra shippers because they are seriously being lead astray
> 
> these are the days when we may potentially solidify our noms de guerre forever!



How about Korralin?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Aang.
> 
> 
> Korra v Aang should be an interesting thing to witness in its development. Korra might be more powerful, but I have to see how well her defense is to compare them.
> ...


Aang himself wasn't personally, as far as I saw. But its really no fair since he can channel previous Earthbenders. 



Ms. Jove said:


> Borra is weak and disheartening. That's not even proper portmanteau.



I'll kill you, Jove. 



Iria said:


> @ Joveles, you should help out the poor BROlin (lol) X Korra shippers because they are seriously being lead astray







Kirito said:


> zutarians are funny



lol

_*From now on, I will slaughter any who speaks ill of BorraxKorra! *_


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Wow. I just had to catch up with everything and now I'm hyped! That's pretty much all I have to say...
> 
> Oh, and Korra is hot.




I swear, I still can't shake that she looks topless


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 25, 2011)

So I've read a few comparisons regarding the animation in the trailer and how it's similar to FMA. Is anyone else seeing that?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 25, 2011)

Probably the same animation workshop, or equal to


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I swear, I still can't shake that she looks topless



Oh come on Rekky.  My view of that pic is forever perverted...


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 25, 2011)

It looks like convenient censorship.


----------



## Koi (Jul 25, 2011)

And that's what I love about that picture.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 25, 2011)

Koi said:


> And that's what I love about that picture.


It's animation too, so that means they can't have possibly missed what it looks like


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

I must point out that in the surrounding clip Korra very clearly has a top on.  It's just tight fitting.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> I must point out that in the surrounding clip Korra very clearly has a top on.  It's just tight fitting.



Shhh we dont need to know that


----------



## BlazingCobaltX (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Aang.
> 
> 
> Korra v Aang should be an interesting thing to witness in its development. Korra might be more powerful, but I have to see how well her defense is to compare them.
> ...



I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but Aang is dead in The Legend of Korra. Would be Awesome tho.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jul 25, 2011)

In a way, I'm beginning to have doubts the sequel'll live up to the original.  

Hope I'm wrong, tho.


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 25, 2011)

Blazing CobaltX said:


> I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but Aang is dead in The Legend of Korra. Would be Awesome tho.



I believe she knows that.

But I think she's talking about debating on who's stronger, not actually witnessing the fight.

I do hope that Aang does play some part though, like Roku did with him as a spiritual guide or something.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

where was that korra amv that got out just minutes after the HD trailer was released?


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 25, 2011)

I bet Aang will appear like Rhoku did at some point. I think Zuko is slated to appear at some point as well.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 25, 2011)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> In a way, I'm beginning to have doubts the sequel'll live up to the original.
> 
> Hope I'm wrong, tho.



I hope so, as well, but I would like to say that sequels often do not match their originals simply by virtue of the fact that they are sequels, and they are often repeating what their originals did. Of course, not all sequels are inferior to their originals, so I also am very hopeful for this new series.



ReikaiDemon said:


> I swear, I still can't shake that she looks topless





ReikaiDemon said:


> It's animation too, so that means they can't have possibly missed what it looks like



Has anyone noticed Korra's facial expression in that image? She seems to be enjoying bending the fire rather too much for it to be a normal rush of exhilaration from feeling such power.


----------



## Bioness (Jul 25, 2011)




----------



## tari101190 (Jul 25, 2011)

wow, amazing. the gif is split in 3 sections though...

i'm hoping the intro will show 4 benders doing a sequence like this. Tenzin, Korra, Mako and Bolin.


----------



## Utopia Realm (Jul 25, 2011)

When's the season premiere again? Need to jot this stuff dfown more.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 25, 2011)

Utopia Realm said:


> When's the season premiere again? Need to jot this stuff dfown more.


Hasn't been decided yet.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Yes, I was talking about "Korra v. Aang" in the context of their differences in characterization, something Mike&Bryan touched upon in the panel.

And, more specifically, their fighting differences. The trailer makes it seem like Korra is a tumultuous, straightforward fighter, so I'm interested to see how her defensive capabilities are, since Aang was a brilliant defensive fighter.

I wonder if that might be part of the story. Korra, the Waterbending Avatar that fights like a Firebender, has to learn the defensive style of Airbending. If Tenzin is like his father, then that will be a major clash between the two.

Though, funny enough, that's the clash that Aang the Airbender and Jeong Jeong the Firebender had.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

Am I the only one who thinks that an Avatar fighting game would be sick?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Absolutely. How awesome would it be if they made a spin-off Probending game taking characters from both series? 


The thing I desire most is a WoW like immersive environment game set in the Avatar World. Avatar: Legends of the Arena didn't exactly fulfill that wish.


----------



## Quaero (Jul 25, 2011)

"The Krew" rolls better off the tongue IMO.



> Am I the only one who thinks that an Avatar fighting game would be sick?



Fighter, RPG, Action-Adventure...

The setting works, but strangely no one seems interested.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

How about the Korr-terie?

Right?

Korrterie?

Like...

**adjusts bowtie, whips scarf, and goes back to lecture on 14th Century Peasant Uprisings**


----------



## Koi (Jul 25, 2011)




----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jul 25, 2011)

Why is there shipwank already? Seeing the characters, it kinda figures which one of the brothers I'd wind up seeing the most of in such things...oh well, my expectations lie in the series, not the fandom.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow; it is very incredible that so much fan art is being made so quickly after official announcements are made; that is clear evidence of how popular the franchise is.

On the subject of fan art, and in response to another user's comment several pages ago about Korra being "buff," I found this wonderful piece of fan art , which I shall also post below, for everyone's viewing pleasure. 


tari101190 said:


> i'm hoping the intro will show 4 benders doing a sequence like this. Tenzin, Korra, Mako and Bolin.



I also am hoping for such an opening sequence, to show continuity with the previous series. Perhaps in this series, if such a device is used, different characters will provide the opening narration as the series progresses, as the opening narration of the original series did eventually become rather monotonous, to me.


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

Too many muscles


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

back here at my place when i showed some people the 720 p trailer

"dude a new movie is coming? why's it cartoons? wasn't it live-action?"

"oh avatar was a cartoon at first?"

"why's a girl the avatar and why does she look buff?"

"it would be awesome if aang met korra."


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

educate them


----------



## Kirito (Jul 25, 2011)

i tried but they were more interested with linkin park 

edit: for some reason the trailer was removed from YT


----------



## tari101190 (Jul 25, 2011)

Kirito said:


> i tried but they were more interested with linkin park


wow they sound cool already. no sarcasm. i love linkin park.

but just watch avatar with them around so they can see.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

They'll make fun of you. There's an age of limitations that you can get people into cartoons.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> They'll make fun of you. There's an age of limitations that you can get people into cartoons.



Is that really true for everyone?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

Well obviously not for _everyone_, but it's a nice rule of thumb from personal experience.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 25, 2011)

So someone apparently recorded the entire panel.
Here's part 1 -[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwmCEr264sA[/YOUTUBE]

If you were kept interested through the whole thing then click on it and watch the other 4 parts.


----------



## BlazingCobaltX (Jul 25, 2011)

Korra is awesome! :33

And could the United Republicbe be the new-build Ba Sing Se? I mean that they rebuilt it to something better.


----------



## DedValve (Jul 25, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I swear, I still can't shake that she looks topless



CANNOT UNSEE


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

Why would you want to?


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 25, 2011)

Blazing CobaltX said:


> Korra is awesome! :33
> 
> And could the United Republicbe be the new-build Ba Sing Se? I mean that they rebuilt it to something better.



Bah Sing Se was never destroyed, so I don't see why it needs to be rebuilt.

The Republic was probably made in or near (or of) the Fire Nation colonies. That explains how Zuko could co-found it and how it could have Benders of all nations living in it. It would also be a way of Zuko trying to make up for what his predecessors did, by dismantling the Fire Nation colonial empire without evicting the Fire Nation peoples who had been settled there for decades.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 25, 2011)

I can see the shirt on my screen. I can see the collar, the arm sleeve-part-things and the part of the shirt around her waist. She doesn't look topless to me.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm sorry.


----------



## Quaero (Jul 25, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I'm sorry.



Sorry about what?


----------



## Iria (Jul 25, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> So someone apparently recorded the entire panel.
> Here's part 1 -[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwmCEr264sA[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> If you were kept interested through the whole thing then click on it and watch the other 4 parts.



Ah thank you so much I was looking for something like this 

/reps

Something that almost immediately strikes me: Bryan Konietzko is kind of a hottie wtf how did I not notice this before :3


----------



## Pinkie Pie (Jul 25, 2011)

Avatar was the best thing Nick has had in a long time. Legend of Korra will continue that trend, I'm sure. Really though, they should've stuck with Avatar as the title.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Yuck, Oh No Ono, The Poison Control Center, Times New Viking, Memory Tapes, Jazztronik, Iceage, Fitness Forever, Ponytail, White Denim, Cymbals Eat Guitars, Radical Dads...


Ok, I've successfully countered the blemish of Linkin Park being mentioned in the thread. 



As for UR being BSS, I don't believe that is possible because UR appears to be at the base of a mountain range, and is seated beside a water source. BSS had neither of those features.


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

I forgive your obscure tastes in music


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 25, 2011)

Harley Q said:


> Avatar was the best thing Nick has had in a long time. Legend of Korra will continue that trend, I'm sure. Really though, they should've stuck with Avatar as the title.



They couldn't keep the title because of James Cameron (right now I can't remember if that's his name! lol). They would have if they could have.


----------



## Glued (Jul 25, 2011)

Fire and Air are the most useful elements due to the fact their everywhere on earth.

Earthbenders at sea, their useless.
Waterbenders in the desert, they require clouds or something.

probably why Korra uses mostly fire.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

*Can someone post the link to all of the pictures released at Comic-Con.*


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Fire and Air are the most useful elements due to the fact their everywhere on earth.
> 
> Earthbenders at sea, their useless.
> Waterbenders in the desert, they require clouds or something.
> ...



I actually think that Korra uses fire because it suits her personality.

Heck,there's even that sketch of her as a baby using fire..

Also,she seems to relish the rush of battle.

Heck,Aang would have never had a wicked smile on his face at the thought of cracking a few skulls.

I see Korra does..


Also I hope after they finish this,and if this is a success,the creators will tell the tale of the very first Avatar.

That's something that I really want to see!


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> *Can someone post the link to all of the pictures released at Comic-Con.*



Is this what you mean?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Fire and Air are the most useful elements due to the fact their everywhere on earth.
> 
> Earthbenders at sea, their useless.
> Waterbenders in the desert, they require clouds or something.
> ...




She uses fire so she can grill bison whenever she wants. 



Facebook Poll: What Is Your Favorite Season?


Book 1: 1,885 Votes

Book 2: 4,533 Votes

Book 3: 15,962 Votes


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> She uses fire so she can grill bison whenever she wants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im sorry Jove, but the finale is better than crossroads of destiny
kthx


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I just finished watching through the entire series, and I'd say my favorite book may be Earth.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I just finished watching through the entire series, and I'd say my favorite book may be Earth.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Im sorry Jove, but the finale is better than crossroads of destiny
> kthx


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 25, 2011)

Jove would be powerless without Tumblr.

Earth is the best.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Book 3 had allot of pointless filler


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm not saying that 'Sozin's Comet' was bad; it was an almost perfect conclusion to the series. But 'The Crossroads of Destiny' was epic. Characters chose sides, the heroes were weakened, and the villains congregated and conquered. It was like 'The Empire Strikes Back'.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Actually, I'd put the Finale, in its totality, as the zenith of the series.

But Book 2 was the best season, by far. Book 1 also deserves way more votes than that. It'll be fun in a few years debating which of the Korra seasons was superior, With only two it should be pretty vicious.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I do agree that Book One deserves more love. But, I do still prefer Book Two.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 25, 2011)

I am not certain if I have a favorite season, but my favorite episode is definitely _Zuko Alone,_ because it focused on Zuko, who is my favorite character in the series. It provided a great amount of backstory for Zuko, most notably introducing his mother, revealing much of his motivation for wishing to prove his worth to his father and the overall tension within the Fire Nation's royal family. I do hope that _The Legend of Korra_ has at least one episode of that nature.



Zen-aku said:


> Book 3 had allot of pointless filler



Such as?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

_The Beach_, _The Painted Lady_, _Nightmares and Daydreams_, and _The Ember Island Players_ could have been removed.


----------



## Jena (Jul 25, 2011)

You crazy, _maaaan_. The Ember Island Players was esential to the plot.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 25, 2011)

I love them all, though Earth gets my vote. A lot of bending and fighting existed for it. :33

I just started the series from start again...forgot how Aang's voice drastically changed and how sexist Sokka was xD


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

With the conspiracies, battles, and development it delivered, book two definitely gets it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> With the conspiracies, battles, and development it delivered, book two definitely gets it.



Exactly. Besides Toph's entrance, the best part of the season was Azula's break in and all the crazy controlling leaders. Absolutely villain


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

The best part of the season was Appa's perseverance and dedication to Aang.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 25, 2011)

Book two is my favourite, yeah.


----------



## Raiden (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks for putting up that video about the panel! Awesome.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Such as?





Stunna said:


> _The Beach_, _The Painted Lady_, _Nightmares and Daydreams_, and _The Ember Island Players_ could have been removed.



Nightmares and Daydreams was Actually important to the plot  and Ember Island Players was awesome

Even the beach manged to make it self useful but

The Painted Lady? The Runaway, and ESPECIALLY The Puppetmaster were all unless and Pointless


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Nightmares and Daydreams was Actually important to the plot  and Ember Island Players was awesome
> 
> Even the beach manged to make it self useful but
> 
> The Painted Lady? The Runaway, and ESPECIALLY The Puppetmaster were all unless and Pointless




Woah there, young man. They had diminished relevance.

Useless, pointless... too extreme. No. Bad. Repent.


And at the very least they were enjoyable episodes.






*Spoiler*: __ 



Except for The Blech which was artless balderdash and never happened


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Nightmares and Daydreams was Actually important to the plot


No it wasn't. You can skip it and you'll miss almost nothing.



> and Ember Island Players was awesome


As awesome as it may be, it was nothing more than a glorified sitcom flashback montage.



> Even the beach manged to make it self usefu


It's a great episode overall (save for the exposition full conclusion), but still filler.



> The Painted Lady? The Runaway, and ESPECIALLY The Puppetmaster were all unless and Pointless


Runaway, arguably so, but Puppetmaster was not. It showed how Katara learned Bloodbending.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> No it wasn't. You can skip it and you'll miss almost nothing.


 they do allot of forshadowing it also is important to Zuko's Devlopment




> It's a great episode overall (save for the exposition full conclusion), but still filler.


 I Argue that it is an important Characterization Episode



> but Puppetmaster was not. It showed how Katara learned Bloodbending.



But she never used it, it never mattered,  they could of cut it out completely and u wouldn't even miss it





Ms. Jove said:


> Woah there, young man. They had diminished relevance.
> 
> Useless, pointless... too extreme.
> 
> ...




The runaway was Really Boring IMO


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> The runaway was Really Boring IMO







Also, I must protest yet again:


Filler is the inappropriate term. Avatar is an original narrative, and thus it is impossible for it to contain "filler," by its strictest terms. Inconsequential is the more accurate way to describe them.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> But she never used it, it never mattered,  they could of cut it out completely and u wouldn't even miss it


I'm willing to concede on most of that, but I completely disagree here. One, she _did_ use it in _The Southern Raiders_, and two, it developed her character as much as those other episodes developed their respective ones.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> One, she _did_ use it in _The Southern Raiders_,


 but not that it was memorable or even important really and two, 


> it developed her character as much as those other episodes developed their respective ones.


 i Don't think so, They never brought it up again after that, we never saw her struggling with he temptation of using it or any thing


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I thought it was plenty memorable and important. We see in _The Puppetmaster_ how much Katara disagrees with the utilizing of Bloodbending, and how distraught she becomes when she's forced to use it. It shows us just how angry and determined she is over finding her mother's murderer in _The Southern Raiders_ that she's willing to stoop to using Bloodbending of her own accord, and as a first resort. She didn't have to be tempted, she was full of so much rage that it was almost instinctive.


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Book 3 had allot of pointless filler



Book 3 was more episodic than Book 2 was, sure.  But that doesn't make the episodes filler.  And being boring doesn't make them filler either.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

But we already new She had a temper i dont think the Blood bending added any thing



> Book 3 was more episodic than Book 2 was, sure. But that doesn't make the episodes filler. And being boring doesn't make them filler either.


 I'd Say that a bunch of them having no real Plot Relevance make them filler in my book


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> but not that it was memorable or even important really and two,
> i Don't think so, They never brought it up again after that, we never saw her struggling with he temptation of using it or any thing



I disagree completely, I think Katara voluntarily using bloodbending was one of the most memorable moments in the whole series in regard to her character. To see someone who is normally so soft and compassionate willingly using a technique like that -- a technique that horrified her -- was a powerful moment in a great episode, and it added an interesting element to her characterisation. 

On another note, I'm not a big fan of _The Painted Lady_ either.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 25, 2011)

_The Runaway_ was fun/epic, and I enjoyed _The Painted Lady_ as well.  



Zen-aku said:


> *but not that it was memorable or even important really and two, *
> i Don't think so, They never brought it up again after that, we never saw her struggling with he temptation of using it or any thing



I thought the entire point of its use in _The Southern Raiders_ was that she was wrong for wanting revenge, and she clearly stepped beyond what she felt was right and wrong by using a technique that she was wholly against.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I agree with Dream Brother. I don't wish to pursue this argument any further, as I've already stated why I believe it's unarguably relevant to Katara's character; you have to choose to roll with it or not.


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

Im glad that after 3 years of no avatar, we can still have these conversations :>


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

You can say that again. After re-watching the entire series I need to talk about this stuff!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Swear to God, I'm going to filter that word out of here.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 25, 2011)

What word might that be


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

I dont think they used there time well in book three 

Toph never gets her Field Trip

We never get a look at Zuko's Teaching method

The Other kids [Haru, Duke Ect.] dont even get lines

but they found time for the runaway?


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> I'd Say that a bunch of them having no real Plot Relevance make them filler in my book



That's a myopic view of the series.  The episodes can still have relevance to character development and the world.  Not everything has to specifically tie in to things later in the show (especially when the episodes in question are very close to the _end_ of the show).


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I think there was a lot of time that could have been better spent. Time spent on fil-excuse me, _inconsequential_ episodes such as _The Runaway_ could have been spent on stretching out training exercises. One of my problems with the series is that the characters learn and master skills far too quickly. I mean, take _Sokka's Master_ as an example. Sokka becomes a competent, if not great swordsman with only one day of training (only half of which was combat centered), and another one or two of sword construction. I understand he has warrior experience with his father being the greatest one in the Southern Water Tribe, but at least a week of training. A day is ridiculous.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

>>The Beach is an important characterization episode

>> But The Puppetmaster wasn't


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Wait, who said that?  BURN HIM.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

They did a much better job following up stuff set up in the beach then they did in the Puppetmaster



Oman said:


> That's a myopic view of the series.  The episodes can still have relevance to character development and the world.  Not everything has to specifically tie in to things later in the show (especially when the episodes in question are very close to the _end_ of the show).



You liked the Great Divide Didn't you?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

You know something I would love to hear more about? The era before the first Avatar. This is why I want Expanded Universe!


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know something I would love to hear more about? The era before the first Avatar. This is why I want Expanded Universe!



It was somewhat interesting what the lion turtle said regarding times past.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 25, 2011)

Odd. A number of the episodes people considered "filler" would have essentially left out Sparky Sparky Boom Man Combustion Man, making his appearance in The Western Air Temple mean even less.

And yet, people also complain about not seeing enough of him...


----------



## Wan (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> They did a much better job following up stuff set up in the beach then they did in the Puppetmaster





No.  No they didn't.  And it mattered more to character development and world building.



> You liked the Great Divide Didn't you?



...no.  No I didn't.  It's a pointless episode but it's still not filler.



Stunna said:


> You know something I would love to hear more about? The era before the first Avatar. This is why I want Expanded Universe!



If it's some kind of novelization you're looking for...I don't think that will ever happen.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I like to think that before the Bending Arts were created, and there was only Energybending, people used it to manipulate their physical attributes so as to give themselves super strength, speed, and chi powers like Dragon Ball. 
lolno that's retarded.

I will write my own Expanded Universe!!


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

omfg, avatar was dragonball 
explodinghead.gif


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

I liked The Great Divide.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

But you hate _The Beach_?



> explodinghead.gif


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Odd. A number of the episodes people considered "filler" would have left out Sparky Sparky Boom Man Combustion Man out, making his appearance in The Western Air Temple mean even less.
> 
> And yet, people also complain about not seeing enough of him...



he should of gotten an episode that focused on him


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

Or an Expanded Universe graphic novel.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> They did a much better job following up stuff set up in the beach then they did in the Puppetmaster




I wouldn't disagree, but they did enough with what we were left with from The Puppetmaster.

Even if I despise the concept of bloodbending.




Zen-aku said:


> he should of gotten an episode that focused on him



No doubt about that. His potential was never fully realized.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 25, 2011)

Puppetmaster > nightmares and daydreams
Puppetmaster > ember island players



Bloody hell its the first and only time you see an evil waterbender, the corruption of good and glimpses of the cruelties of prisoners of war.

I mean chained up by your hands all day/night till you die...


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

Why do you hate bloodbending?


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> No.  No they didn't.  And it mattered more to character development and world building.


i dont think so, knowing there was Blood bending was cool but i dont think it added any thing


> ...no.  No I didn't.  It's a pointless episode but it's still not filler.


that's what most people Consider to be filler


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I liked The Great Divide.



Oh, and what position did it have in your top 60?
:jove


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Why do you hate bloodbending?



I've always hated the conceit and the implications. It opened the door where every conceivable property of an element could be fully exploited. Bending was always kind of charming; you bend what you see. after bloodbending, anything was plausible...




N??ps said:


> Oh, and what position did it have in your top 60?
> :jove



Two years ago, it was #56. But like I said: if it has a number, I liked it.


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I've always hated the conceit and the implications. It opened the door where every conceivable property of an element could be fully exploited. Bending was always kind of charming; you bend what you see. after bloodbending, anything was plausible...



sucking air out of peoples lungs with airbending, firebending to dehydrate people mummy style, or like earthbending a couple sand grains and havving them zip around inside someones brain.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> i dont think so, knowing there was Blood bending was cool but i dont think it added any thing





Waking Dreamer said:


> Bloody hell its the first and only time you see an evil waterbender, the corruption of good and glimpses of the cruelties of prisoners of war.
> 
> I mean chained up by your hands all day/night till you die...



**


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I guess I can understand what you're saying, but it only makes sense. I mean, if you can manipulate the water in a cloud, why not in the blood? Why not from the air or from the plants?

@Noops: Okay, I can definitely see what you mean now; but I don't think we should ignore the fact that it's possible. I'd rather the extremes be acknowledged than boundaries be set on the imagination.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 25, 2011)

I wish Bryke actually delved a little more into bloodbending. They just let it hang there. I mean, I did love how Katara used her regular style waterbending to stop Azula from straight up electrocuting her up the nose, but if Katara saw the style of the Foggy Swamp Style tribe, she could've done something like that...


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 25, 2011)

Also, didnt Puppetmasters show how the FN ship became a relic/wreck in the SWT? 

Not to mention how the FN actually eliminated all of the SWT waterbenders, which was the primary dilemma for Katara and her waterbending skills for most of all of season 1...?

Or the pristine, natural beauty that could still be found on the islands of the FN.

How is that episode NOT choc full of *world-building aspects*? How many world-building points did we get from Nightmares and daydreams...?


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Also, didnt Puppetmasters show how the FN ship became a relic/wreck in the SWT?
> 
> Not to mention how the FN actually eliminated all of the SWT waterbenders, which was the primary dilemma for Katara and her waterbending skills for most of all of season 1...?
> 
> ...


yes they painted a better picture but it didn't ADD any thing imo

nothing important any way, like i didn't need to know how the ship got there



> How many world-building points did we get from Nightmares and daydreams...?


 the foreshadowing, not to mention the parts with Zuko are what leads to his defection, and its a big "OOOOO" moment when u go back and watch it after seeing the finale


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> yes they painted a better picture but it didn't ADD any thing imo
> 
> nothing important any way, like i didn't need to know how the ship got there
> 
> the foreshadowing, not to mention the parts with Zuko are what leads to his defection, and its a big "OOOOO" moment when u go back and watch it after seeing the finale



what was the OH moment


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

You know something I wouldn't be surprised to find in _The Legend of Korra_? Soundbending, a secondary art to airbending. That is, unless you count that scene from _Tales of Ba Sing Se_ where Aang amplifies his Bison Whistle to rally the zoo escapees.

*Edit:* I think he's referring to Zuko's revelation that he was on the wrong side upon hearing Ozai's plans for Earth Kingdom genocide at the war meeting.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 25, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> yes they painted a better picture but it didn't ADD any thing imo
> 
> nothing important any way, like i didn't need to know how the ship got there



The episode fleshed out the past, and seeing how they froze the ship was awesome, I wouldnt want that left on the cutting room floor for the world.



> the foreshadowing, not to mention the parts with Zuko are what leads to his defection, and its a big "OOOOO" moment when u go back and watch it after seeing the finale



What foreshadowing? The part where Zuko had doubts about his choice.

How many minutes of that episode did that actually take though? What about the rest of the episode...did that add to anything further on?


----------



## Burke (Jul 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> How many minutes of that episode did that actually take though? What about the rest of the episode...did that add to anything further on?



Samurai Momo

:jove


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 25, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Samurai Momo
> 
> :jove



Well Samurai Momo would have solo'd Ozai, but that's Aang's job so they couldnt bring him back later on....


What Im basically saying is...painting a richer/deeper world is just as awesome as getting things done in the present time. EIPs and N&Ds didnt really do either.  Trippy? Yes. Amusing? Kinda. 

But if you had those episodes or say past flashbacks like Iroh's trip into the spirit world and Ursa's disappearance/hiding/death of Firelord...which would you chose?

Id chose turning point history over selective humor any day of the week...


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know something I wouldn't be surprised to find in _The Legend of Korra_? Soundbending, a secondary art to airbending.



Mmm, Soundbending. I'd really like to see that. 

Oh, do you you guys think that Korra would have learned bloodbending?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

I strongly doubt it. The only known people who know bloodbending are Hama, whom wouldn't be capable of passing it on to anyone else, and Katara, who would refuse to do so.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 25, 2011)

Doesn't necessarily prevent someone from rediscovering it like Hama did.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 25, 2011)

That's true, but I doubt Korra is going to be the kind of person to advocate it's usage anyway.


----------



## Koi (Jul 25, 2011)

via
Bye bye Bats


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 25, 2011)

the blood Bending thing wouldn't  have  been Pointless to me if she had used it in the finale or maybe had been shown regretting her decision to use it in the first place more


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

This is one of my favorite airbending techniques.


----------



## Jena (Jul 26, 2011)

I just realized something...
So they've announced a lot of the voice actors who will appear in the new series, but have they announced who will be voicing Korra yet?


----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

Janet Varney

and on that note, we apparently learned many more voices on the show!

wikipedia has the scoop


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)




----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

*Skoochy* - (Zach Callison) 

Unknown (Rob Paulsen)
Unknown (Eva Marie Saint)
Unknown (Richard Epcar)
Unknown (Dante Basco)


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Just listened to some Janet Varney. She's fine as Korra.


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)

re: MY CURRENT FEELINGS


----------



## Wan (Jul 26, 2011)

I just watched the whole SDCC panel on Youtube.  It's interesting that while they say the United Republic is the place Aang and Zuko co-founded, the just call it a "place", not specifically a city.  Later in the panel they still refer to the city itself as "Republic City."

So maybe the United Republic is its own multi-bender nation-state independent from the three nations and Republic City is its capital?


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)

..I decided that I would become a lesbian for Korra.  Not even kidding.  If she was real and a lesbian and wanted me, I would do it in a second.  NOT ASHAMED.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 26, 2011)

Koi said:


>


 Toph's and Zuko's attacks don't match ones shown on their scrolls.


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 26, 2011)

Janet Varney as Korra - that could work very well.



Koi said:


> ..I decided that I would become a lesbian for Korra.  Not even kidding.  If she was real and a lesbian and wanted me, I would do it in a second.  NOT ASHAMED.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __




 that's nice dear...


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 26, 2011)

Excuse me i gotta go do....Some non-Fap Related things...


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)




----------



## Jena (Jul 26, 2011)

Dat gif. 

I would go lesbo for Korra as well.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Darn it Koi, spoiler tag.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)

No Spoiler Tag necessary. Spam away. 


Though I already posted the Bitch Step the Fuck Off one, young lady.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Be cool Koi, not all of our computers can operate fast enough for your pics


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)




----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

**


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 26, 2011)

Curses! Noops now has more posts in this thread than do I; 475 to my 468 at the time of this post here. I cannot allow such an occurrence; I must regain my position in this thread.

I wonder if the main villain of the new series shall operate from behind the scenes, as Ozai did, or be much more active, as Azula was? The fact that he is wearing a mask would seem to suggest the former, but he could also be active and using the mask to conceal his true identity. I am definitely interested to learn more about him.

With that being said, to change the subject, briefly, I was rather disappointed at how Ozai was rather inactive for a significant duration of the series; he was the main villain and was also very important to Zuko, but the only time that he ever fought was during the finale, while he was powered-up by Sozin's Comet; not enough of his firebending skill was shown outside of that scene, in my mind.

To change subject again, the creators of this series made the world very detailed, especially with customs, festivals, and traditions, but they did not provide a great amount of information about marriage customs (apart from Pakku and Hama's romance), festival regarding the birth of children, or funerals. I imagine that such details were either not important to the plot or avoided because of the young target audience of the series. Would anyone else here like to have more information about such customs?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

I want to know everything about everything in the Avatar universe.


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)

Awwh I missed this in the trailer. :>


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I want to know everything about everything in the Avatar universe.



I just Want To know if my  theory about the First Avatar is Correct


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)




----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)

Fine, I'll be the one to be respectful of Stunna. 



*Spoiler*: __ 



Actually, the pics are just too big.


----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

You just like those old ba sing se crystals


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)

Sexy backs and sexy arms.  Bryke, it's like you just _know._


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 26, 2011)

I second the notion of spoiler tagging the image spam.


DemonDragonJ said:


> I was rather disappointed at how Ozai was rather inactive for a significant duration of the series; he was the main villain and was also very important to Zuko, but the only time that he ever fought was during the finale, while he was powered-up by Sozin's Comet; not enough of his firebending skill was shown outside of that scene, in my mind.


Who would he have fought though? And much of his menace came from being this faceless monster behind everything.


> the creators of this series made the world very detailed, especially with customs, festivals, and traditions, but they did not provide a great amount of information about marriage customs (apart from Pakku and Hama's romance),


Roku and Ta Min's marriage is shown.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)




----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I want to know everything about everything in the Avatar universe.



In that case, I suggest that you either continue to post in this thread and engage in conversation with the other users, or browse around the internet and find information across its vast and varied expanse.



Dragonus Nesha said:


> Who would he have fought though? And much of his menace came from being this faceless monster behind everything.



Yes, that is indeed very true, but we still never did see his firebending skill without the power of Sozin's Comet, and we likely never shall, now.



Dragonus Nesha said:


> Roku and Ta Min's marriage is shown.



Yes, that covers marriage customs in two of the four nations, but I still would like to know about marriage customs in the Earth Kingdom and for the Air Nomads; perhaps with Toph and Aang both having children, at least one of whom has children of their own, those mysteries may be explained.


----------



## Jena (Jul 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> To change subject again, the creators of this series made the world very detailed, especially with customs, festivals, and traditions, but they did not provide a great amount of information about marriage customs (apart from Pakku and Hama's romance), festival regarding the birth of children, or funerals. I imagine that such details were either not important to the plot or avoided because of the young target audience of the series. Would anyone else here like to have more information about such customs?



The "Lost Scrolls" book/s have more details about such things. I can post some quotes from it if you want, or you can buy it on Amazon. It's only like $5.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

What does it tell us that we don't already know?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that is indeed very true, but we still never did see his firebending skill without the power of Sozin's Comet, and we likely never shall, now.


We catch glimpses in his fights with Zuko and hints from Iroh's comments.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 26, 2011)

so whats with all the mako hipster jokes?


----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

scarf = hipster apparently :|


----------



## Jena (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> What does it tell us that we don't already know?



More detail about customs, animals, a little about history.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 26, 2011)

If Mako wore the scarf along with a porkpie hat, tanktop and Khaki shorts...then one could definitely call him a hipster. I live in Brooklyn so I know what I'm talking about.

Nobody has linked to this video yet?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMbwBhl1x-Q[/YOUTUBE]

We get to see the new MMA and "Tricking" choreography that will be integrated into the new show.


----------



## Darth (Jul 26, 2011)

WHY SO MUCH FANART ALREADY?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> If Mako wore the scarf along with a porkpie hat, tanktop and Khaki shorts...then one could definitely call him a hipster. I live in Brooklyn so I know what I'm talking about.
> 
> Nobody has linked to this video yet?
> 
> ...




I love it. I wonder why the person that taped the panel decided not to film that stuff. 


PS: For those unaware, Ginormous = Bryan Konietzko.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 26, 2011)

Darth said:


> WHY SO MUCH FANART ALREADY?



The fanart has existed since the first promo art piece that was unveiled for Korra last year at SDCC. Mind you, all we got to see of her was a back shot until a few months ago. Now that the fandom has been given so much material to work with, the fanart is exploding.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

First of all.

Kickass image.

Second of all..I do hope they wear this at some high-level event in Republic City.

We've already seen fedoras and it would be..awesome..


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)

My lust for fanart is nowhere near expended.


One thing that was mentioned earlier... now that I've seen the panel, I'm perplexed by the terminology. United Republic sounded great, but then Mike started referring to the utilitarian Republic City again.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 26, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMbwBhl1x-Q[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> We get to see the new MMA and "Tricking" choreography that will be integrated into the new show.



So Will "MMA" be Firebending or Earthbending


----------



## Taurus Versant (Jul 26, 2011)

Welp, thanks Koi, I've officially started a folder for Korra arts.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Because there are not enough pics of the brothers:



And the..hmm..Krew is it?


----------



## Taurus Versant (Jul 26, 2011)

I can literally only refer to them as Korra and her Bitches

That will forever be the official name in my heart.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 26, 2011)

Kitches?


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 26, 2011)

Korra and the Korrew
It works for all of them


----------



## Waveblade (Jul 26, 2011)

It's interesting with the fanart of Bolin and Mako that none I have found have brown eyes. And brown eyes were shown on the concept sketches and such.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Waveblade said:


> It's interesting with the fanart of Bolin and Mako that none I have found have brown eyes. And brown eyes were shown on the concept sketches and such.



Hmm..


Well,these are the sketches for Korra,Bolin and Mako:



*Spoiler*: __ 












It looks to me that the fangirls got the colour of their eyes right.


----------



## Hana (Jul 26, 2011)

Gah, how many years has it been since I was excited about Avatar? Too many. The trailer looked amazing. The style and plot are new and interesting. The characters so far look great. My favorite trailer from Comic Con. 

I have only seen tiny glimpses of the brothers, but I already know my favorite is going to be Brolin. I mean his name is just made of win. 

*Spoiler*: _from reddit_


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Hana said:


> Gah, how many years has it been since I was excited about Avatar? Too many. The trailer looked amazing. The style and plot are new and interesting. The characters so far look great. My favorite trailer from Comic Con.
> 
> I have only seen tiny glimpses of the brothers, but I already know my favorite is going to be Brolin. I mean his name is just made of win.
> 
> *Spoiler*: _from reddit_



Well,it's clear that the creators of the show engineered the brothers for pure,maximum,fangirl bait effect..

I mean,if you thought that the shipping stuff with TLA was bad..this will make that look like nothing!


----------



## Hana (Jul 26, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> Well,it's clear that the creators of the show engineered the brothers for pure,maximum,fangirl bait effect..
> 
> I mean,if you thought that the shipping stuff with TLA was bad..this will make that look like nothing!



I don't want to think about it. That Zutara thing still gives me nightmares. 

I know there will be romance. I mean they are teenagers, and that was a popular aspect to some fans from the previous series. It's just not the part I enjoy.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Hana said:


> I don't want to think about it. That Zutara thing still gives me nightmares.
> 
> I know there will be romance. I mean they are teenagers, and that was a popular aspect to some fans from the previous series. It's just not the part I enjoy.



I actually went to the most popular (I think at least) forum for the Avatar series,AvatarSpirit it was called,to find more new stuff about Legend Of Korra.

The biggest thread on that forum by far was the shipping thread..

It's basically now Bolin&Korra vs Mako&Korra (it seems the old Katara&Zuko fangirls migrated here!) vs...Bolin&Mako.

Oh lordy..


----------



## Robert Haydn (Jul 26, 2011)

HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE!!!	

Did the new Avatar series start yet?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 26, 2011)

Robert Haydn said:


> HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE!!!
> 
> Did the new Avatar series start yet?



We're already into 3 episodes where have you been...?!


*Spoiler*: __ 



No. It hasnt started yet.


----------



## Robert Haydn (Jul 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> We're already into 3 episodes where have you been...?!
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


....I wanna neg you, I really do. 
I'd have been so happy if it was already 3 episodes in.
Than I could just sit and watch them all one after the other.

Thanks for clearing that up, but you got my hopes up unnecessarily than shot them down the moment after. Didn't know you were this cruel.  

EDIT: Found the trailer


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Okay people,here is all the concept art I could find:



*Spoiler*: __ 























Aww yeah!


----------



## Kirito (Jul 26, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> I actually went to the most popular (I think at least) forum for the Avatar series,AvatarSpirit it was called,to find more new stuff about Legend Of Korra.
> 
> The biggest thread on that forum by far was the shipping thread..
> 
> ...



You forgot Korra x Oman.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Kirito said:


> You forgot Korra x Oman.



Actually,I chose to forget it!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 26, 2011)

Waveblade said:


> It's interesting with the fanart of Bolin and Mako that none I have found have brown eyes. And brown eyes were shown on the concept sketches and such.



Perhaps most of the artists find brown eyes to be too mundane?



Ciupy said:


> It looks to me that the fangirls got the colour of their eyes right.



Forgive me for asking, but how do you know that all of the artists are female, or why are you presuming that they are all female?

Now, I have noticed that two of Korra's companions are benders, and, more specifically, an earthbender and a firebender, but will they have an airbender (not counting Korra, the Avatar) in their party? What about a non-bender, to have a role similar to what Sokka had in the original series? I certainly would like to see a skilled martial artist who fights in melee combat with great proficiency.


----------



## Nimander (Jul 26, 2011)

Conveniently forgot about this for the past 7 months or so due to real life shit, only to make my way back to this thread to find out a trailer has been released.

Holy shit, my body is ready for this series to drop.  Like, NOW.  I'm 23, and after watching this have finally accepted that I'll love animated shows for as long as I live, if they're at the level of quality that this one is.


----------



## Drakor (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow I was shocked when I heard there was a new Avatar being made, I like how their bending has become somewhat less powerful than in the last series in accordance to the new era.

Shows how people forget traditions and drop it readily for the new age of "peace". Makes them truly look and seem like they're the last of their kind just like how Aang was the only air bender shown. I still hope and pray that the Avatar State still holds the badassness it did when Aang went against Ozai however.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

It's sort of funny, I was in fourth grade when the original series started, and I'll be a junior in high school when the new one debuts.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

> Forgive me for asking, but how do you know that all of the artists are female, or why are you presuming that they are all female?



Just a hunch..




Drakor said:


> Wow I was shocked when I heard there was a new Avatar being made, I like how their bending has become somewhat less powerful than in the last series in accordance to the new era.
> 
> Shows how people forget traditions and drop it readily for the new age of "peace". Makes them truly look and seem like they're the last of their kind just like how Aang was the only air bender shown. I still hope and pray that the Avatar State still holds the badassness it did when Aang went against Ozai however.




Where did you see that Bending has become less powerful?

I see Korra and both Bolin and Mako kicking ass and taking names.

It's just that the Equalists have risen and are trying to destroy the perceived (or not) threat of the benders.


----------



## Drakor (Jul 26, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> Where did you see that Bending has become less powerful?
> 
> I see Korra and both Bolin and Mako kicking ass and taking names.
> 
> It's just that the Equalists have risen and are trying to destroy the perceived (or not) threat of the benders.


Time to not watch Glee anymore, my dreams have been fulfilled.

Just the trailer alone shows you that their bending is no where on the level of the older benders. Just compare Zuko vs Azula and watch Korra's fight. This is good and ironically, makes the old age badass troupes possible.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

The only reason the fight between Zuko and Azula was so explosive was because they were empowered by Sozin's Comet. I really don't see a difference in power between the original series and the bending portrayed in the trailer.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Drakor said:


> Time to not watch Glee anymore, my dreams have been fulfilled.
> 
> Just the trailer alone shows you that their bending is no where on the level of the older benders. Just compare Zuko vs Azula and watch Korra's fight. This is good and ironically, makes the old age badass troupes possible.



Ever thought that fighting at full power in a city could,ya know,result in human casualties and huge property damage?

I'd say they fight at full power in that combat arena.

Look at what they can do there:


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Dude, I can't freaking wait to see a Pro-Bending match. They better have a video game spin-off of it.


----------



## Drakor (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> The only reason the fight between Zuko and Azula was so explosive was because they were empowered by Sozin's Comet. I really don't see a difference in power between the original series and the bending portrayed in the trailer.


I wasn't reffering to their fight during the end, but the escape from the prison.


Ciupy said:


> Ever thought that fighting at full power in a city could,ya know,result in human casualties and huge property damage?
> 
> I'd say the fight at full power in that combat arena.
> 
> Look at what they can do there:


Yea, that picture has changed my mind didn't see it there in that trailer.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Dude, I can't freaking wait to see a Pro-Bending match. They better have a video game spin-off of it.



Oh heck yeah.

I think one rule is that you have to have a team composed of three different kind of benders.

Shit,they look so cool here:




The protection equipment looks a lot like Fire Nation battle gear I think..

Edit:

Drakor,I think they said that the styles of bending have evolved as well.

So we will see MMA and trick fighting as well incorporated into the different bending arts.

Can't wait to see that..


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)

^Their equipment reminds me of Smellerbee's armor.  Specifically the breastplate thing she wore.


CAST M. NIGHT SHYAMALON'S KORRA!

Kiera Knightly as Korra
Zac Efron as Mako
Someone Completely Not Fitting the Character as Bolin
Keanu Reeves as Tenzin
Naga is just a white German shepherd


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Seth Rogen as Bolin.


----------



## Koi (Jul 26, 2011)

LOL YES.  Or the kid from Super Bad.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

^Stop it..just stop it!


It's interesting that bending has become by this time more of a sport that promotes camaraderie and companionship than the art of war that was before..


----------



## Drakor (Jul 26, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> Drakor,I think they said that the styles of bending have evolved as well.
> 
> So we will see MMA and trick fighting as well incorporated into the different bending arts.
> 
> Can't wait to see that..



Yea I hope Zuko passed down the method of lightning bending to someone trust worthy. More likely Azula may teach it though...probably the new villain if she hasn't reformed. Also hope to see Toph expanding on metal bending and teaching someone 

The new modern combat styles certainly does fit this era of the series. If M. Night DOES make a new movie...hopefully he'll take the bad reviews made by fans and rethink his choices on how he directs and hires


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 26, 2011)

I notice that most benders use their elements to attack from afar, so I would like to see a bender use their element to fight in melee combat. Also, Combustion Man was a firebender who could use his power in only a very specific, albeit highly effective, form. Therefore, I would like to see a person who is a firebender, but cannot actually produce flame without a physical medium. Such a person, to compensate for their inadequate firebending skill, has trained themselves with melee weapons and is an expert in their use, so wields a sword or other item in battle, and uses their power to cause it to burn with fire. This would be similar to how Zuko once combined his firebending with his twin sword fighting style in _Zuko Alone,_ except that this would be the character's entire fighting style, rather than a one-time instance (think of Piandao wielding a sword that was aflame). What does everyone else have to say? Would that be an interesting idea?



Ciupy said:


> It's interesting that bending has become by this time more of a sport that promotes camaraderie and companionship than the art of war that was before.



I like that very much; it is similar to how, in the two or more centuries between _Zoids: Chaotic Century_ and _Zoids: New Century Zero,_ Zoids went from being weapons of war to use in tournaments; or how in _Mobile Fighter G Gundam,_ Gundams were used in competitions rather than total war, as in all the other series. I hope for some awesome fight scenes, and I shall admit that I cannot help but think of _Dragon Ball,_ which help to popularize the plot element of "martial arts tournaments" in modern media.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Drakor said:


> Yea I hope Zuko passed down the method of lightning bending to someone trust worthy.


Zuko never learned lightning generation, only redirection.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I notice that most benders use their elements to attack from afar, so I would like to see a bender use their element to fight in melee combat. Also, Combustion Man was a firebender who could use his power in only a very specific, albeit highly effective, form. Therefore, I would like to see a person who is a firebender, but cannot actually produce flame without a physical medium. Such a person, to compensate for their inadequate firebending skill, has trained themselves with melee weapons and is an expert in their use, so wields a sword or other item in battle, and uses their power to cause it to burn with fire. This would be similar to how Zuko once combined his firebending with his twin sword fighting style in _Zuko Alone,_ except that this would be the character's entire fighting style, rather than a one-time instance (think of Piandao using a sword that aflame). What does everyone else have to say? Would that be an interesting idea?



Well yeah,that would be kickass really..

Actually,I see this as being the case with Korra and strangely Oman.

She looks like an incredible physical (offensive I might add) fighter.

There is one promo pic of her fighting multiple Equalists hand-to-hand,and beating the shit out of them.

Also,I could see Oman being able to actually "cancel" bending not just by applying Ty Lee's technique,but actually something similar to spiritbending.


----------



## Drakor (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Zuko never learned lightning generation, only redirection.


Iroh taught him the principle methods of how its created...not just how to redirect. It was just a failure on his part that he couldn't put the generation of it into action.

Edit: That would be really great if they made a character fight like that DemonDragonJ


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Iroh may have explained the process, but that doesn't mean that Zuko mastered it, nor does it mean he's capable of performing it. Iroh stated that only a select few firebenders are capable of separating their yin and yang energy to generate lightning.


----------



## Drakor (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Iroh may have explained the process, but that doesn't mean that Zuko mastered it, nor does it mean he's capable of performing it. Iroh stated that only a select few firebenders are capable of separating their yin and yang energy to generate lightning.


Yea...and he can just tell someone trust worthy enough that information. Its just like someone teaching a person lacking upper body strength how to properly deadlift a 300, they may not be able to do it but they still know the methods on how to do it. Can even use it for teaching someone how to do the high jump but they can't put out enough speed to meet the height but can still teach another. Same goes for boxing.

Another thing I forgot...Bloodbending :amazed


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Unless it's rediscovered I don't think bloodbending will recover prominence. The only known users being Hama, who is incapable of passing it on, and Katara, who would be against doing so.


----------



## Drakor (Jul 26, 2011)

Yea I agree, highly doubt Katara would ever do it again after she performed it on an innocent and on Hama. I'm just hoping some villains will use one of the unique bendings that were created sometime down the line though


----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

Drakor said:


> Also hope to see Toph expanding on metal bending and teaching someone



You should stick around more, because we already know she did just that. United Republic, the main setting of the story, has a special swat team elite force of metal bending cops, and Toph's daughter is the police chief!


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

N??ps said:


> You should stick around more, because we already know she did just that. United Republic, the main setting of the story, has a special swat team elite force of metal bending cops, and Toph's daughter is the police chief!



Heh.


I really do hope that at least Old Granma Toph is around as the strongest Earthbender alive..

The awesome would be off the scale!


And I wonder who Toph's husband was..if she ever had any..

Edit:

I think I saw a fanart of that..let me check..

Edit Edit:

Well,it's the best I could find!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Unfortunately, I think it was confirmed that all of Team Avatar from the original have passed on.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Unfortunately, I think it was confirmed that all of Team Avatar from the original have passed on.



Oh..

Where?

I mean..we have seen some pretty old dudes in TLA.

I could chalk Kyoshi's extreme lifespan to the fact that she was an Avatar..but we have Bumi as well.

So you mean none of the original cast survived into their 90's..


----------



## Glued (Jul 26, 2011)

Guru Prathik had a long life too, didn't he?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

There's an interview somewhere, but I'm too lazy to source.

Edit: Yeah, Pathik was 150 in the original series, but he presumably had a diet strictly of onion and banana juice and spent all day meditating and what-not. If that doesn't give you longevity I dunno what will.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Guru Prathik had a long life too, didn't he?



You mean this guy? 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7GDAu5p3f4[/YOUTUBE]

Yeah,I think so.


----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> Oh..
> 
> Where?
> 
> ...



actually 80's


----------



## Glued (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> There's an interview somewhere, but I'm too lazy to source.
> 
> Edit: Yeah, Pathik was 150 in the original series, but he presumably had a diet strictly of onion and banana juice and spent all day meditating and what-not. If that doesn't give you longevity I dunno what will.



It actually wouldn't, the human body needs more nutrients than just those found in onion and banana juice.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

It's a fantasy universe with flying bison and sheep-pigs, I think monks can live off of onion and banana juice.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

N??ps said:


> actually 80's



Well..they didn't survive until they entered their 90'th year!

Also check this out:







Look how good the Equalists are at hand-to-hand combat that could fuck up an elemental bender.

That's a pretty wicked new style.

And that's just a mook.

I can't wait to see what Oman is capable of!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 26, 2011)

Drakor said:


> Another thing I forgot...Bloodbending :amazed



I cannot imagine that Katara would want to teach bloodbending to another waterbender, but one cannot be certain, as Katara's personality may change, she may accidentally teach another waterbender the style, or she may be forced to teach it to someone.

I do hope that Zuko eventually learned to generate lightning as well as redirect it, as he eventually overcame his internal strife that was preventing him from using the technique initially.

On that subject, in a fan-comic that I read online, Azula uses the hypnotism techniques of the _Dai Li_ to brainwash a number of firebenders and deprive them of any emotions, making them able to generate lightning and thus far more dangerous in combat. What does everyone think of that?



Stunna said:


> Unfortunately, I think it was confirmed that all of Team Avatar from the original have passed on.



That is very unfortunate, and also rather odd, as other characters lived to be very old, so why not the main characters from the first series, as well?



Ciupy said:


> Also check this out:
> 
> Look how good the Equalists are at hand-to-hand combat that could fuck up an elemental bender.
> 
> ...



Yes, I agree that that is very awesome, as well, but does anyone else here believe that the character's positions, as well as Korra's facial expression, in that final image, are rather sexually suggestive? I certainly believe that they are.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I agree that that is very awesome, as well, but does anyone else here believe that the character's positions, as well as Korra's facial expression, in that final image, are rather suggestive? I certainly believe that they are.



Wait..what?

I see surprise..and pain on Korra's face.

You could associate that with  a lot of things,but I don't think it's that obvious in this case.

I'm willing to bet that that is one of the very first confrontations with the Equalists and is a painful lesson for Korra (which it seems prefers CQC) that she doesn't really know everything yet and that she can't underestimate her opponents.


----------



## Glued (Jul 26, 2011)

Oman is probably just Azula in disguise?


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oman is probably just Azula in disguise?



I don't think Azula would fight for "the small guy" so to say.

And wouldn't she be an old hag by now?


I prefer she stays in the past and we get an awesome new enemy with incredible skill in martial arts,enough to rival the greatest benders actually..


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

You know what I would like to see? An Avatar who chose to abuse his powers instead of using them for world peace.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oman is probably just Azula in disguise?


More likely to be Ozai. If he can't rule the world with his bending, he'll rule the world with his anti-bending.

Of course, since the punishment for abusing bending is getting energybent into a non-bender, then that for abusing anti-bending would be getting energybent into a bender.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know what I would like to see? An Avatar who chose to abuse his powers instead of using them for world peace.



Hmm.

Did it ever happened ?

I mean..who the fuck could stop him/her in that case?

Aren't all Avatars intrinsically good?

Edit:

Kinda "Magneto and the Brotherhood of Mutants"-ish don'tcha think Nesha?


----------



## Noah (Jul 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I agree that that is very awesome, as well, but does anyone else here believe that the character's positions, as well as Korra's facial expression, in that final image, are rather suggestive? I certainly believe that they are.



Yeah. It suggests surprise and pain.

Sometimes I wonder why I'm still surprised when you say shit like that.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Did it ever happened ?
> 
> ...



I don't think so. I mean, what's stopping them from being corrupted? We've seen how hostile Aang was when Appa was stolen.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I don't think so. I mean, what's stopping them from being corrupted? We've seen how hostile Aang was when Appa was stolen.





I don't know,I always thought that the good nature of the original Avatar,whoever that was,always resurfaces in all the Avatars,regardless of their gender and personality.


All Avatars have basically the same Spirit Of The Planet as their soul no?

I always imagined that the soul is transmited anew to any new Avatar and that the memories of the previous Avatar together with countless others are basically a part of the subconciousness of the new Avatar,always there but unable to reach them unless a special situation calls for it.

That's my take on it anyway.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

I was going to ask if the Dai Li's brainwashing would have any affect on Aang, but then I realized that if Jet was capable of breaking the spell, Aang would too.


----------



## Glued (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know what I would like to see? An Avatar who chose to abuse his powers instead of using them for world peace.



Read Superman: Red Son, same exact concept. Bringing peace, with a FIST of COMMUNISM.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Read Superman: Red Son, same exact concept. Bringing peace, with a FIST of COMMUNISM.



You mean,kinda like an Avatar choosing to basically conquer the known world in order to stop all wars and then bring equality to all by force,with him as the unquestionable pillar of strenght and leadership?


----------



## Robert Haydn (Jul 26, 2011)

So this series is so far in the future that there's no chance of anyone from the 1st series still being alive right? I was really looking forward to seeing an old Azula.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 26, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> More likely to be Ozai. If he can't rule the world with his bending, he'll rule the world with his anti-bending.



Yes, I'm sure the world will fear a 120 year old depowered loon.



Robert Haydn said:


> So this series is so far in the future that there's no chance of anyone from the 1st series still being alive right? I was really looking forward to seeing an old Azula.



Its 70 years in the future. Most of the cast are dead, but some might still be around.

Avatar Kyoshi actually lived something like 230 years, but she seems to have been kind of exceptional.


----------



## Gunners (Jul 26, 2011)

I wonder if the different cultures integrating with one another with effect how the elements are applied in battle.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 26, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Yes, I'm sure the world will fear a 120 year old depowered loon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well,she DID have the biggest feet of any Avatar that has ever lived!

Edit:

Gunner,they did say that the fighting/bending styles evolved.


----------



## Gunners (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know what I would like to see? An Avatar who chose to abuse his powers instead of using them for world peace.



It wouldn't happen, at the end of the day they are reincarnations. Certain traits would pass on which is why they all pick the same toys at birth.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know what I would like to see? An Avatar who chose to abuse his powers instead of using them for world peace.



Yes, I have been wanting to see such a character for a great while now, but the story writers seem to be intent on keeping the Avatar as the hero of the series.



Ciupy said:


> Wait..what?
> 
> I see surprise..and pain on Korra's face.
> 
> You could associate that with  a lot of things,but I don't think it's that obvious in this case.





Noah said:


> Yeah. It suggests surprise and pain.
> 
> Sometimes I wonder why I'm still surprised when you say shit like that.




*Spoiler*: _More of my perception of sexual content in non-sexual contexts_ 



I see that I need to explicitly spell out what I meant in my previous post: the position in which Korra and the other person are greatly resembles a sexual position, and Korra's facial expression resembles one of pleasure, to me. I am perfectly entitled to my opinion on this subject, and, as I have said before, fighting and sexual activity are remarkably similar, so I believe that my perception of that scene is justified.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I have been wanting to see such a character for a great while now, but the story writers seem to be intent on keeping the Avatar as the hero of the series.


There's nothing wrong with keeping the Avatars as heros...


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 26, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> If Mako wore the scarf along with a porkpie hat, tanktop and Khaki shorts...then one could definitely call him a hipster. I live in Brooklyn so I know what I'm talking about.
> 
> Nobody has linked to this video yet?
> 
> ...



The martial arts always present well - the music however is so unusual and almost surreal - very cool what they've done.  The "tricking" somehow reminds me of freerunning for whatever reason (possibly just the fluidity and execution of the motions themselves).  It's impressive.  

I have to say that the steampunk aspect seems to be firmly rooted in our reality, but without the nuances (or seeing exactly what they have planned in the show) it is premature to say that.  I really can't wait to see what they've come up with.  

I'm just grateful that these guys get to step up again, have been afforded an opportunity to expand their world, and continue to create.  It's just so right.


----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know what I would like to see? An Avatar who chose to abuse his powers instead of using them for world peace.



weve discussed this many times thanks to DDJ, and we always determin no, the avatar cant be evil. He would not be able to connect to the spirit world in the proper way, and his past lives simply would not lend him their strength.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh I didn't intend to beat a dead horse.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)

And, to be honest, I don't find that premise interesting, either.



I wonder how United Republic is viewed by the rest of the Avatar World. Mike mentioned that the nations still exist, and that UR is this lateral entity in the world...

Bryan mentioned NYC a lot. I wonder if UR is seen as either an escape or a place of opportunity to the more ambitious in the Avaverse, whereas the more traditional are either confused or threatened by it.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

I wasn't talking about a series revolving around such a character. Maybe they view the United Republic in the same light that other countries view the US...?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

Evil Avatars wouldn't offer up much of a watch either, me thinks.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 26, 2011)

I watched the trailer and was struck with an idea: the original intro started with Aang, Azula, Pakku, and the Rock Boulder demonstrating the four elements; what if Korra demonstrated water, earth, and fire and air was either left out or demonstrated by Tenzin.

Leaving it out would be somewhat of a storytelling element for the intro since it is the element Korra lacks. Of course, this could be confusing to those new to the series.

Perhaps the anti-bending style will be demonstrated in the intro.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

I guess she will bend all the elements. The reason I say this is because of the waterbending scene the trailer released...


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 26, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I guess she will bend all the elements. The reason I say this is because of the waterbending scene the trailer released...


That's what got me thinking about it, but I don't see why they would have her airbending since its the seemingly central point of the series.
Granted, they didn't have Aang replace the other characters as he learned them.


----------



## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like Korra will have herself a male harem


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> That's what got me thinking about it, but I don't see why they would have her airbending since its the seemingly central point of the series.
> Granted, they didn't have Aang replace the other characters as he learned them.



They could make it Tenzin, or one of his kids or other one of Aang's kids. Or they could still use Korra because she'll learn it in the future anyways.


----------



## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

I like your set Terra


----------



## Jena (Jul 26, 2011)

Or they could just keep the shadow-people from the original for the opening.


----------



## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

I take it you guys also have a problem with them excluding the "Avatar" piece from the title and instead choosing "The Last airbender"


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

Bender said:


> I take it you guys also have a problem with them excluding the "Avatar" piece from the title and instead choosing "The Last airbender"



We do, yesh. It should have been "Avatar: Legend of Korra"


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

I would easily prefer 'The Last Airbender' as the title if it wasn't for the fact that there is now more than one.


----------



## Jena (Jul 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I would easily prefer 'The Last Airbender' as the title if it wasn't for the fact that there is now more than one.



 Yeah, good point.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

It doesn't really make sense though, she's not the Last Airbender T.T


----------



## Bender (Jul 26, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> We do, yesh. It should have been "Avatar: Legend of Korra"



Well I assume it's because the sequel to Avatar is coming in 2012 which is the reason for the title being changed.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

Bender said:


> Well I assume it's because the sequel to Avatar is coming in 2012 which is the reason for the title being changed.



You do mean dances with smurfs Avatar, right...? They have like two-three more movies, two more movies and a prequel, I do believe. 

Avatar, the show, deserves the title a lot more than JC's movie.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

I thought 'Avatar 2' came out in 2013.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)

Fanart time!


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

Fanart from me. Not the literal art, I just added more color and threw the text and border on there.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 26, 2011)

And Mako does a Zuko impersonation.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)

Going through all this fanart, it's still so jarring to see a Waterbender firebending.

It does seem like the community has picked up on the "Korra likes Fire" aspect of the trailer, because it's predominant in the art.


----------



## Taurus Versant (Jul 26, 2011)

would have made things more comfortable when living with the water tribe.

Or just wetter.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

I hope Korra acts that way (but not entirely ya know?) pek


----------



## Quaero (Jul 26, 2011)

If you want to get technical about it, there is only one fully realized airbender left.

The kids don't have their arrows yet y'see.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 26, 2011)

Probably one of the strangest reviews I've ever read about the original series.



> This series never did it for me.
> The world felt unnatural, non-believable - all. the. time.
> A lot of cartoons (especially with fictional worlds) have this problem. Even The LOTR Trilogy felt strange, sometimes.
> 
> ...


----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

what a prude


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

Quaero said:


> If you want to get technical about it, there is only one fully realized airbender left.
> 
> The kids don't have their arrows yet y'see.



They are still airbenders though, master or no.  



> This series never did it for me.
> *The world felt unnatural, non-believable - all. the. time.*
> A lot of cartoons (especially with fictional worlds) have this problem. Even The LOTR Trilogy felt strange, sometimes.
> 
> ...



Please.

Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Wan (Jul 26, 2011)

His point about Minas Tirith is actually an inaccuray in the movies.  In the books the fields around Minas Tirith are filled with farmland, not shallow plains and grassland as portrayed in the movies.

But I just wouldn't expect that person to enjoy Avatar: The Last Airbender.  Fantasy in general doesn't seem to be is cup of tea.  And you know, that's alright.  If he doesn't enjoy it he doesn't enjoy it, he doesn't enjoy it.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 26, 2011)

He's a really materialistic person whose closed-minded views are affecting the way he enjoys a mode of entertainment. He's the kind of person who never had a childhood.

Leave that shithead alone to his "realistic" entertainment. I guess he might NEVER watch TV shows because let's face it, they're "unrealistic".


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 26, 2011)

I've never known many people to dislike ATLA. Sure, some elements may seem unrealistic, but hey, this is a fantasy world. If there are some plotholes that exist, some wise fanfics explore it. I like the canon series, and I've recommended it to some of my friends.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

The only people I've ever met who dislike are kids at school who won't give it a chance on merit of being a cartoon.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

Honestly?

I haven't met anyone who dislikes the show  I have met people who never watched, but never watched and disliked...


----------



## Wan (Jul 26, 2011)

I gotta agree.  Everyone I've talked to that saw at least some of the show thought it was good.


----------



## Glued (Jul 26, 2011)

This should be Bolin's theme song. Just replace Rollin with Bolin.

[Youtube]rdmfVyPrqcc[/Youtube]


----------



## Kirito (Jul 26, 2011)

in other related news, i heard that the equalist leader's name is OMEN, not oman

oman (pun intended) that must pretty much suck for you, 1 namechange down the drain


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

'Omen'? As small and trivial of a change that is, it's not as cool as 'Oman'.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

Kirito said:


> in other related news, i heard that the equalist leader's name is OMEN, not oman
> 
> oman (pun intended) that must pretty much suck for you, 1 namechange down the drain



According to wikia and the people who were present at Comi-con, it is "Oman".


----------



## Shade (Jul 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm, you're going to give Jove an aneurysm by posting Limp Bizkit in here. :|


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 26, 2011)

I forget did they mention the age of Korra or the others again?

Anyway Im really diggin' the Korrew character design, they seem to be older and have more toned and developed bodies/muscles. You can believe they could actually be bending/martial arts masters.

They look a lot like that Sokka vs Zuko (swordfight) fanart a while back.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 26, 2011)

It was believable for a 12-13 year old boy to know Martial arts to me...was I the only one?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 26, 2011)

In 'Avatar' my suspension of disbelief is pretty suspended. So obviously not.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> I forget did they mention the age of Korra or the others again?




Korra is 17. That's the only confirmed age thus far.

We've done some maths and figured that Tenzin must be in his late 40's-Early 50's.



As far as the Oman/Omen thing goes, it definitely sounds like Bryan says "Oman" in the panel video.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 26, 2011)

Nooooo, this thread moves too fast for me now!





Ciupy said:


> Because there are not enough pics of the brothers:


It looks like he's cranking his crank.


Ciupy said:


> Okay people,here is all the concept art I could find:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a pretty unsettling shot

Hmm, his mask looks like it could be influenced by Peking Opera...

Which is another layer to the character Ping on his front, which if paired with ju, means Peking Opera.

And in Peking Opera, masks are a way to show a character's personality and such.

"Gold and silver colors are usually used for gods and spirits. The main color in 						a facial makeup symbolizes the disposition of the character."

Here's a link to what white means in a opera


Yellow, if we can call the goldish parts of his mask, yellow


Red


It seems to fit what we can glean from Oman/Omen now.

There is meaning in patterns as well, but I don't think, there are any particular patterns used in his mask that relates to Peking characters.

I'd say at best, it could be White Full, which is usually depicted for tyrants and such, with black details, suggesting ulterior motives or something secretive.  


Ciupy said:


> Ever thought that fighting at full power in a city could,ya know,result in human casualties and huge property damage?
> 
> I'd say they fight at full power in that combat arena.
> 
> Look at what they can do there:


I knew there'd be bowler hats for some reason.


----------



## Lilykt7 (Jul 26, 2011)

pressed party pooper on tumblr makes me wanna get a tumblr just so i can tease her. it silly to love a show that hasn't come out yet but it's just as silly to hate it. patienceeeeeee.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 26, 2011)

In season 1 Zuko had a decent physique, so him swimming though freezing water, getting slammed against a wall, enduring an explosion (though that's not the reason he survived) etc. seemed manageable. 

Him being the oldest of the kids allowed the character designers to give him that muscle tone. But I dont know why they made him skinny by season 3.

With the older Korrew I look forward to more impact in their fight sequences.


----------



## Shade (Jul 26, 2011)

Am I the only one whose mind jumped to Dr. Doom when we got the first legit Korra poster from SDCC? 

Also, might be a coincidence, but 'Naga' is an anagram of 'Aang'.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 26, 2011)

I even made a "Latveria conquered the Fire Nation?" joke in response to when I posted that poster for my LP friends, one of them asked "Why is Dr. Doom in Avatar now?".


----------



## Burke (Jul 26, 2011)

I dont know what to feel


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 26, 2011)

N??ps said:


> I dont know what to feel



What is that?


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is that?



i wanna say its oman


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

I           don't.


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## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> According to wikia and the people who were present at Comi-con, it is "Oman".



"Amon was the confirmed name from IBGraham on DeviantArt, he worked on the first season for Korra. And no release date was announced at Comic Con"

Time to not watch Glee anymore, my dreams have been fulfilled.

from that vid.

what to believe now 

OMAN? OMEN? AMON?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 27, 2011)

Amon is hilariously close to Anon


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Hmmm... the second time they show the character, it does sound closer to Amon than Oman. First time still sounds like Oman to me, but I guess it's settled with Ian Graham's DA post..


Let's all celebrate Mordin losing a namechange!


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 27, 2011)

> Avatar The Legend of Kor..."
> This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement from claimants including:
> 
> * Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation
> ...



That's the message you get when you click on the video that Nickelodeon helped to take down. So I'm wondering what stake any of those entities have in Korra. Isn't 20th Century Fox responsible for not allowing Nick to use _Avatar_ as a title? I don't know of any connection between Viacom and UMG. TV Tokyo came out of nowhere. How is Japan involved with this program?
Hey if you know why those names appear and would like to clue me in as to why, please go ahead. Forgive my ignorance.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

TV Tokyo must have thought Avatar was anime instead of fake anime.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

Does TV Tokyo have the rights to Korra? Were they the ones who broadcasted ATLA?

Lol Mordin Solus.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 27, 2011)

Maybe someone had some music or whatever in it.

Some doofs on Youtube have little intros with a personal logo and a bit of a mini AMV before the content.

So I saw nine minutes of the new Thundercats.

The animation seems really familiar of Avatar somehow...

Could they be using the same studios?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 27, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Let's all celebrate Mordin losing a namechange!



Why would you want to celebrate such a thing? That is sadistic and cruel, in my mind.


----------



## Wan (Jul 27, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Hmmm... the second time they show the character, it does sound closer to Amon than Oman. First time still sounds like Oman to me, but I guess it's settled with Ian Graham's DA post..
> 
> 
> Let's all celebrate Mordin losing a namechange!


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## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why would you want to celebrate such a thing? That is sadistic and cruel, in my mind.



cant tell if troll


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> That's the message you get when you click on the video that Nickelodeon helped to take down. So I'm wondering what stake any of those entities have in Korra. Isn't 20th Century Fox responsible for not allowing Nick to use _Avatar_ as a title? I don't know of any connection between Viacom and UMG. TV Tokyo came out of nowhere. How is Japan involved with this program?
> Hey if you know why those names appear and would like to clue me in as to why, please go ahead. Forgive my ignorance.



for some reason it's back up again 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDg0_sMkY4c&feature=channel_video_title[/YOUTUBE]

a good review of the trailer. found it when i was searching for his review on the latest op chap


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 27, 2011)

Hmm, surprisingly difficult to find a good _Avatar_ music video...


----------



## Koi (Jul 27, 2011)

On the Facebook page they said some people were having a speed issue.


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

Koi said:


> On the Facebook page they said some people were having a speed issue.



You didnt notice? The trailer was definatly like 20% sped up


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Hmm, surprisingly difficult to find a good _Avatar_ music video...



I believe I found one. I just forgot how I found it since I just stumbled upon it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Korra posters going anywhere from $30-50. 

No sign of anyone selling a print.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 27, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Hmm, surprisingly difficult to find a good _Avatar_ music video...


Check blackssk's posts in this thread(s).


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 27, 2011)

I loved his videos but I think his account was taken down a while ago. Haven't heard a peep from him his since the finale.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 27, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I loved his videos but I think his account was taken down a while ago. Haven't heard a peep from him his since the finale.


No, his account still exists; he was even on earlier today.
He seems to be sticking to the Graphics Studio.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

can anybody PM me a link on the pixiv link of korra? thanks


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 27, 2011)

blackssk's vids don't seem to be working anymore, damn.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 27, 2011)

Kirito said:


> in other related news, i heard that the equalist leader's name is OMEN, not oman
> 
> oman (pun intended) that must pretty much suck for you, 1 namechange down the drain



Are you sure its not oman 
hmmm


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 27, 2011)

N??ps said:


> cant tell if troll



I am not trolling; I *NEVER* troll anyone, for any reason; do I need to have a line in my signature that clarifies that all posts that I make are completely serious, unless I clearly specify otherwise?

What new name does Mordin Solus have now, may I ask?


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

Regardless im sure Jove was being ironic seeing at it is in fact not an event one would celebrate. :jove


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> Are you sure its not oman
> hmmm



From Korra storyboard artist Ian Graham's DA page:



> First I want to thank everyone who put together the Avatar fan panel at SDCC and most of all :iconethereal-glutton: She was great and made things run smooth as ice.
> I want to thank the Avatar fans who showed up! A great group who I know will not be disappointed in Korra. I would also like to thank my friends:iconbarrypresh: :iconrufftoon: who went to support me and the panel . I hope you guys all had a good time! I know I did! Seeing the great costumes and all the enthusiasm for Avatar and Korra just warms my heart!
> *I can't wait to see all the Korra, Mako,Bolin and Amon costumes next year!!!!*
> 
> ...




Ian had posted things before about working on the show, such as:



> This was my first week on Korra and I can tell you right now that Korra will not dissapoint! It is amazing!! Everyone involved is so talented It makes me realize I need to up my game. With so much great work around me it should not be a problem. Now, I can not talk about the story on any level but I can say It is gonna be A GREAT RIDE! Mike and Bryan have a true vision for The Legend of Korra and I am so proude to be a part of it. My first Day was more about setting up my office ,learning the show and Reading the scripts but soon after that I was droped into a heavy workload. It is nice to work with my old friends and to be back at Nick after 2 years away. This is also the first time I have worked directly with  blacksataguni and let me say he is as nice as he is talented, A true master of his craft.
> 
> Ian




Ian was a Storyboard Artist and Assistant Director during the first series. He's a solid resource, so until further notice it looks like we're all going with Amon.


----------



## Jena (Jul 27, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Hmm, surprisingly difficult to find a good _Avatar_ music video...



Here are some.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 27, 2011)

Jena:

Thanks for those. My favourite was the first one. It doesn't seem to fall into the common trap of overindulging with flashy effects -- it keeps it minimal and effective. I also like how it focuses on Zuko and Aang, as the series really felt like it was ultimately their story at heart. Not a big fan of the song, but it was much more bearable than the usual stuff I've come across on Youtube. (Although when I saw the title of 'All I Need' I was actually hoping for the Radiohead track, haha.)


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Jena:
> 
> Thanks for those. My favourite was the first one. It doesn't seem to fall into the common trap of overindulging with flashy effects -- it keeps it minimal and effective. I also like how it focuses on Zuko and Aang, as the series really felt like it was ultimately their story at heart.



One of the more satisfying things in the fandom near the end of the show's run was when Mike & Bryan started to refer to the show as "Aang and Zuko's story" instead of just "Aang's story."


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Zuko's my favorite character, so darn straight.


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## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Truthfully, Avatar was a "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead" type story focusing on the side characters in the Tale of Hawky.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Kirito said:


> for some reason it's back up again
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDg0_sMkY4c&feature=channel_video_title[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> a good review of the trailer. found it when i was searching for his review on the latest op chap


"She's a kickass Avatar"

I agree. 

And he likes Toph? This guy knows his stuff. 

*Good review :3*


----------



## Jena (Jul 27, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Jena:
> 
> Thanks for those. My favourite was the first one. It doesn't seem to fall into the common trap of overindulging with flashy effects -- it keeps it minimal and effective. I also like how it focuses on Zuko and Aang, as the series really felt like it was ultimately their story at heart. Not a big fan of the song, but it was much more bearable than the usual stuff I've come across on Youtube. (Although when I saw the title of 'All I Need' I was actually hoping for the Radiohead track, haha.)



No problem. 

The first one is easily my favorite as well.


----------



## Bender (Jul 27, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Going through all this fanart, it's still so jarring to see a Waterbender firebending.
> 
> It does seem like the community has picked up on the "Korra likes Fire" aspect of the trailer, because it's predominant in the art.



Water bending is my favorite bending principle and makes me   to see both of them being used.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Earthbending > Waterbending


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 27, 2011)

Waterbenders always seemed to be my favorites but I have a soft spot for firebenders too


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## Bender (Jul 27, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Earthbending > Waterbending



Earthbending sucks


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Wrong. Earthbending is great because not only can it be as destructive as firebending, but it can also be just as good of a defensive art as airbending.


----------



## Bender (Jul 27, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Wrong. Earthbending is great because not only can it be as destructive as firebending, but it can also be just as good of a defensive art as airbending.



Yeah but it's special bend-type move Bloodbending allows you to control that person like a puppet. :33


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

I'd just stay away from you on the full moon until I developed an even deadlier sub-art of earthbending.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Bender said:


> Earthbending sucks



It does not suck! 

It can be used for offense and defense; its just as destructive as firebending, evasive like Airbending and very useful for defense like Waterbending. And  you can metal bend! Someone wearing metal? OH SNAP YOU JUST KILLED THEM.



> Yeah but it's special bend-type move Bloodbending allows you to control that person like a puppet.


Only during a full moon.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Does anyone think that Aang passed on the art of energybending to anyone? Seems like a terrible thing to allow to fall back into obscurity.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Does anyone think that Aang passed on the art of energybending to anyone? Seems like a terrible thing to allow to fall back into obscurity.



Maybe. If not, Korra could always talk with him or the other Avatars that knew it. 

Aren't there other Lion Turtles?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

I don't know if there are others, but seeing as how the one who taught it to Aang was around in the era before the Avatars, I would guess so.

Something I'm surprised we haven't seen an earthbender do is use the art to create soldiers of stone and manipulate them. If I was an earthbender, that would be my signature fighting style. Safe and effective.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I don't know if there are others, but seeing as how the one who taught it to Aang was around in the era before the Avatars, I would guess so.
> _
> Something I'm surprised we haven't seen an earthbender do is use the art to create soldiers of stone and manipulate them. If I was an earthbender, that would be my signature fighting style. Safe and effective._



Well, technically Toph did so when she was playing as the Fire Lord. Sorta.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Technically you're right, yeah. I'd forgotten about that; but that was just creating dummies out of stone and popping them out of the ground. I'm talking about creating a soldier out of the earth with limbs and a sword and controlling it like a puppet. You know, running, swinging his limbs, the works.

Speaking of bending arts, has anyone here heard of shadowbending? It's exclusive to an Avatar comic? The Avatar Wiki doesn't have a page on it, so I'm curious as to what it is and how it's performed. I don't see what that has to do with air, water, earth, or fire.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 27, 2011)

I agree that earthbending is cool. On first glance it seems like the most unglamorous or most uninteresting out of all the elements, but after seeing how it was depicted in the series (especially through Toph, and moments like her big fight in her introductory episode) I gained respect for it. 

If I had a choice, I'd go for Air, though. (Which fits my personality, anyway.) Fire is too dangerous to people around you, Water is cool but somehow not as interesting, and Earth is very practical but not my style. 



> One of the more satisfying things in the fandom near the end of the show's run was when Mike & Bryan started to refer to the show as "Aang and Zuko's story" instead of just "Aang's story."



I'm surprised it took them that long -- the setup for that angle seems to be clear from as far back as _The Storm_. Maybe even they didn't realise how significant Zuko would eventually become?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

According to Nick.com, Energybending has only ever been learned by a few Avatars. I doubt Aang could teach it to anyone other than an Avatar.


Make you consider how the strength of Avatars is passed on. If other Avatars knew of Energybending, they must have been ancient. If Energybending were to persist, Aang would have to pass it on to one of the next few in the cycle.


Or tell them where to find the lion-turtle.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Would it be possible for one to fly using earthbending, like Terra on Teen Titans? You know, standing on a boulder and then using earthbending to levitate it?



> Speaking of bending arts, has anyone here heard of shadowbending? It's exclusive to an Avatar comic? The Avatar Wiki doesn't have a page on it, so I'm curious as to what it is and how it's performed. I don't see what that has to do with air, water, earth, or fire.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

Shadowbending? It's too much like bloodbending imo, only easier to use and cheaper.


----------



## Bender (Jul 27, 2011)

> It can be used for offense and defense; its just as destructive as firebending, evasive like Airbending and very useful for defense like Waterbending. And  you can metal bend! Someone wearing metal? OH SNAP YOU JUST KILLED THEM.




Oh and what Waterbending is chop liver? You can do the same with Waterbending. 

@Stunna


Yeah, it does sound too much like bloodbending :S


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 27, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Shadowbending? It's too much like bloodbending imo, only easier to use and cheaper.



Also, would bending shadows not technically be bending light, as shadows are merely the absence of light (in this universe, anyway, as shadows are in fact a force of their own in some fantasy universe).


----------



## Glued (Jul 27, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> It was believable for a 12-13 year old boy to know Martial arts to me...was I the only one?



In Thailand, Muay Thai Kickboxers at the age of 5 or 6 get their legs broken on purpose so that the bone will regrow back stronger. Though they do not get into the ring until much later in life, training begins at a young age.

Average Muay Thai fighter will retire by the age of 25.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Bender said:


> Oh and what Waterbending is chop liver? You can do the same with Waterbending.


I think a boulder twice your size will do more damage and provide more protection than water. 



> @Stunna: Yeah, it does sound too much like bloodbending :S


Yeah, but I want to know how it's even freaking possible. Shadows have nothing to do with the four arts.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Bender said:


> Oh and what Waterbending is chop liver? You can do the same with Waterbending.


I love Waterbending, but Earthbending is the most useful next to Airbending.

You can make ice sure, but that can be easily destroyed. It takes a lot to destroy a Earthbender's defense when its done right I mean (you can see a big example of this from the last episodes of Aang's battle against Ozai.).

@Ben Grimm:
Oh wow, thanks for sharing Ben! I was basing this on some personal experience and on all the little kids I know that are trained in martial arts


----------



## Taurus Versant (Jul 27, 2011)

If we're holding a favourite bending poll than yeah, earthbending here :ho


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Shadowbending is brought up, but not Cookie Dough Bending, from the very same comic?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Cookie-dough bending is more plausible than shadowbending. You can bend the water in the dough to make it move. There's no water, earth, air, or fire in a shadow.

Edit: There is milk in dough, right? I don't know, I don't bake.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

You don't bend the water in the cookie dough. You _bend the cookie dough_.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 27, 2011)

I, for one, support the concept of cookie bending.


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> You don't bend the water in the cookie dough. You _bend the cookie dough_.



Oh my god, that chapter pissed me off so much.

In a competition with thousands of entrants, they pick shadowbending, cookiedough bending, and a girl snowboarder with short shorts


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> You don't bend the water in the cookie dough. You _bend the cookie dough_.




I guess I should just give up and disregard anything that's not the cartoon all-together.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

What use is _cookie dough bending_ in the Avatar universe other than being a cheap imitation of Mother May Eye?

Well, if that means there are other countries aside from the Four Nations (underground nation of shadowbenders perhaps) and the next avatar after korra will learn it, then WHY NOT?

edit: 2nd paragraph talking about shadowbending


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Oh my god, that chapter pissed me off so much.
> 
> In a competition with thousands of entrants, they pick shadowbending, cookiedough bending, and a girl snowboarder with short shorts



Wait, they held a contest for fans to create their own bending arts, and they chose those?!

Shaking my fucking head.


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> You don't bend the water in the cookie dough. You _bend the cookie dough_.





Stunna said:


> I guess I should just give up and disregard anything that's not the cartoon all-together.



​
:jove


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Wait, they held a contest for fans to create their own bending arts, and they chose those?!
> 
> Shaking my fucking head.



No, it was a contest for OC's in general...
IMO that makes it more pathetic


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

You're right, it does. No wonder that Analay chick looks so bad. I wish I could have submitted someone.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

looks like the avatar wiki changed it to amon now

its really funny


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 27, 2011)

Someone say cookie dough?

*hungry*


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

This revelation makes me want to hurt people. Really badly.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

There are endless uses to Cookie Dough Bending, as there are endless situations in which you would need it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Oman, Omen, and Amon have been his names thus far but WHICH IS IT!? Its like he's the Faceless God or something T.T I like Amon a lot better than Oman, so I hope its that one if its going to change. Omen doesn't sound right for him. 

What? Cookie bending...?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

I prefer 'Oman' to 'Amon', but the latter does make more sense.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

Avatar: I can't .. learn cookie dough bending.
Katara v2: You can do it, you're the Avatar!
Avatar: I promised my Sifu never to learn something like that. It doesn't do anything except bend cookies! What use is that in real life?
Sokka v2: It's useful! You can always know what you're 'cookin' now, geddit? Haha ...ha.
Katara v2: *glares* Maybe it can be useful when defending yourself when you're in the kitchen I guess ...

i dunno people, how can cookie dough bending be useful in-verse


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

I feel dirty and angry and... jealous.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Avatar: I can't .. learn cookie dough bending.
> Katara v2: You can do it, you're the Avatar!
> Avatar: I promised my Sifu never to learn something like that. It doesn't do anything except bend cookies! What use is that in real life?
> Sokka v2: It's useful! You can always know what you're 'cookin' now, geddit? Haha ...ha.
> ...







You'll always need cookies. You'll always need Cookie Dough Bending.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

maybe make an AU of the avatarverse, and the bending arts there consist of cookie dough bending, shadow bending, color bending, and fruit bending perhaps


----------



## Darth (Jul 27, 2011)

This thread....

Not enough results people.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm sorry, I just can't get over this. I can't believe they accepted submissions with characters bending anything other than water, earth, or fire. I would have given those kids the finger. Hard.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I prefer 'Oman' to 'Amon', but the latter does make more sense.



Agreed; Amon does make more sense than Oman, both the Hebrew and Egyptian definition of it. I wasn't sure why they decided on Oman before because the name just didn't match him me thinks. 

Amon sounds so much better, and I can picture myself saying "Amon just*insertevilactionhere*!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Where did our Koi go? I guess I'll put up some fanarts...


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

I miss volcano bender bob


----------



## Nicodemus (Jul 27, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I'm sorry, I just can't get over this. I can't believe they accepted submissions with characters bending anything other than water, earth, or fire. I would have given those kids the finger. Hard.



But what about.....


*GENDER BENDING????*


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

i havent seen rule 63 hanging around avatar that much. then again, i havent been looking


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> But what about.....
> 
> 
> *GENDER BENDING????*



Not touching that one with a ten-foot pole.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> But what about.....
> 
> 
> *GENDER BENDING????*



if you knew what the op fandom had been up to the last 5 years


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXN9NI5at_Y&feature=feedu[/YOUTUBE]

at first i 

but then i avatarded


----------



## Nicodemus (Jul 27, 2011)

N??ps said:


> i havent seen rule 63 hanging around avatar that much. then again, i havent been looking









two for one


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

Nicodemus said:


> two for one
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



then again, i havent been looking 

then again, i havent been looking 

then again, i havent been looking


----------



## Kirito (Jul 27, 2011)

i just wish we could've seen this


----------



## Nicodemus (Jul 27, 2011)

N??ps said:


> then again, i havent been looking
> 
> then again, i havent been looking
> 
> then again, i havent been looking



Obviously you were simply far too busy, so I took some time out my schedule to aid you.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Kirito said:


> i just wish we could've seen this



I absolutely adore that fanart of Toph. pek its my absolute favorite. Such beautiful art! :33



Ms. Jove said:


> Where did our Koi go? I guess I'll put up some fanarts...


AWESOME! :3

Saved!


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 27, 2011)

OOOoooohh, me like Toph fanart!


----------



## Wan (Jul 27, 2011)

Kirito said:


> i just wish we could've seen this



I dunno...seems a little too J-pop style girly for Toph.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 27, 2011)

Sucks for you Oman, your name change seems to be for nothing.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

The only part that throws me off is her cleanness and her "nice" face. 

She needs dirty feet, a bit more relaxed sitting position and a slightly more "relaxed" facial expression. 

EDIT:
I'm sure they would be willing to fix the name for him without it counting...


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 27, 2011)

That picture of Toph is lovely, but I agree that it seems too...pretty, for lack of a better word. It's a great piece, though.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

Anything Toph is awesome and epic. It matters not that this image shows her on a more "girly" side than what would be normal for her -- Toph is Toph.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 27, 2011)

After seeing the bear-hound that Korra is riding, I wonder what other new fantastic creatures may appear in this new series; I would find a liger to be a very awesome addition to the series, or would the fact that ligers exist in actuality exclude them from this series (although Kuei's bear was proof that animals from our world do exist in the world of _Avatar)?_


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 27, 2011)

It is called Naga 

I wouldn't say that actual animals in our world can't exist in Avatar. They have dogs, fish, cats, deer and more...right?


----------



## Burke (Jul 27, 2011)

and bears


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 27, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> EDIT:
> I'm sure they would be willing to fix the name for him without it counting...









Also:


----------



## Friday (Jul 27, 2011)

Saw a few awesome AMVs a few pages back. Really good.

I'm so excited for Korra!


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 27, 2011)

Kirito said:


> i just wish we could've seen this



Oh man...that's impressive.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2011)

Hey, I was just wondering...will Tenzin have a Sky Bison or the new Sky Bison...? Or maybe any of his children...?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 28, 2011)

That last piece I posted (Korra & Pabu) looks pretty traced, to be honest. But I still like it.


----------



## Bender (Jul 28, 2011)

Kirito said:


> i just wish we could've seen this



If Toph was actually looking like this when she got older the dude who married her is one lucky friend.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2011)

Bender said:


> If Toph was actually looking like this when she got older the dude who married her is one lucky friend.



Even if she didn't look like that, the man is lucky. She's Toph!


----------



## Burke (Jul 28, 2011)

its obvious toph is lesbian for suki, and her daughter came from a primitive form of invetro


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Oman, Omen, and Amon have been his names thus far but WHICH IS IT!? Its like he's the Faceless God or something T.T I like Amon a lot better than Oman, so I hope its that one if its going to change. Omen doesn't sound right for him.
> 
> What? Cookie bending...?


He does have gold on his mask after all...


Stunna said:


> I'm sorry, I just can't get over this. I can't believe they accepted submissions with characters bending anything other than water, earth, or fire. I would have given those kids the finger. Hard.


I think that's illegal


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 28, 2011)

New fanart time!


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2011)

@Art posted:
OH MY GOSH ITS MAKING ME LOVE BOLIN MORE! pek


What the....? 





ReikaiDemon said:


> He does have gold on his mask after all...
> 
> I think that's illegal


Yes he does...? What does the gold mask mean exactly?


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @Art posted:
> OH MY GOSH ITS MAKING ME LOVE BOLIN MORE! pek
> 
> 
> ...



That's actually a pic since before people saw Korra's face.

And fuck yeah Bolin.

I knew I'd like his character when I saw those expressions of his that the good people drew.

He will have an awesome character.

In comparison,Mako was basically drawn with the blank,smug,Sasuke'ish expression.

Edit:

Also this:


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> That's actually a pic since before people saw Korra's face.
> 
> And fuck yeah Bolin. I knew I'd like his character when I saw those expressions of his that the good people drew. He will have an awesome character.
> 
> In comparison,Mako was basically drawn with the blank,smug,Sasuke'ish expression.



Its a common character to make, the Sasuke type... 



Ciupy said:


> Also this:



Oh my gosh she's so adorable. 

I wonder if she'll really act like that though. That would be extremely awesome.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Its a common character to make, the Sasuke type...



Now the question is this:

Did they make him to appease the Zutara fans and basically give us Zutara.2 or is this an elaborate troll,in the end Korra ending up with Bolin or with nobody?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2011)

Its a troll. Mike and Bryan has never gone for the obvious, typical pairing (Katara and Zuko). Plus, we have reason to believe Bolin is the only one to be romantically involved and something to do with Korra getting a teenager relationship (or something) as well. I believe it was stated a few pages back....? 

I wouldn't appreciate the obvious, that's for sure. I get enough typical, non refreshing things in the other cartoon/animes that I watch. Avatar better not become one of those other...things.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Its a troll. Mike and Bryan has never gone for the obvious, typical pairing (Katara and Zuko).* Plus, we have reason to believe Bolin is the only one to be romantically involved and something to do with Korra getting a teenager relationship (or something) as well. I believe it was stated a few pages back....? *
> I wouldn't appreciate the obvious, that's for sure. I get enough typical, non refreshing things in the other cartoon/animes that I watch. Avatar better not become one of those other...things.



Oh,I never heard about that..

Interesting..


I basically don't want to see Bolin as a joke-only character.

He better kick ass when the time comes just as much as Mako and Korra.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> Oh,I never heard about that..
> 
> Interesting..
> 
> ...



I will try to find the page...and if I can, I recall reading an article for the Korra part. If I find them, I'll post 'em back.

It looks like he can kickass as well as be funny, so here's hoping he isn't a _direct_ copy of Sokka (though nothing was wrong with Sokka! lol).

He's an Earthbender, he'll kickass.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I will try to find the page...and if I can, I recall reading an article for the Korra part. If I find them, I'll post 'em back.
> 
> It looks like he can kickass as well as be funny, so here's hoping he isn't a _direct_ copy of Sokka (though nothing was wrong with Sokka! lol).
> 
> He's an Earthbender, he'll kickass.



True that.

His fighting style seems to me to be a combination of Hung Gar,MMA and Wrestling,while his brother Mako's stances remind me of Jeet June Do.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 28, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> Now the question is this:
> 
> Did they make him to appease the Zutara fans and basically give us Zutara.2 or is this an elaborate troll,in the end Korra ending up with Bolin or with nobody?



That part of the fanbase will be happy with whatever they get. I doubt they created Mako purposely for his aesthetic


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @Art posted:
> OH MY GOSH ITS MAKING ME LOVE BOLIN MORE! pek
> 
> 
> ...


In Peking Opera, gold or silver on a mask shows that the character is a god or spirit.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 28, 2011)

I know I'm late to the party but I just stumbled upon the trailer.

I am so spazzing right now.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Its a troll. Mike and Bryan has never gone for the obvious, typical pairing (Katara and Zuko). Plus, we have reason to believe Bolin is the only one to be romantically involved and something to do with Korra getting a teenager relationship (or something) as well. I believe it was stated a few pages back....?
> 
> I wouldn't appreciate the obvious, that's for sure. I get enough typical, non refreshing things in the other cartoon/animes that I watch. Avatar better not become one of those other...things.



How was Zuko and Katara an "obvious" or "typical" pairing? It seemed to me that the pairing between Aang and Katara was being built from the very beginning, making it the "obvious" and "typical" romance.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

I agree. I don't think some of the romances in Avatar were that deep to begin with. They just sort of worked because they were in Avatar.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 28, 2011)

Typical teen romance and there will be a love triangle in the show.
Well you know this already tells me that its not going to be that deep but yeah Korrew romance is all but confirmed.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 28, 2011)

If there's a clear love triangle it would be interesting. 

NOT an interpretative Katarra/Zuko cave moment - but as in both the guys at various points in time clearly try to express some sort of affection towards Korra or her to them. 

And while I wouldnt want it to be at the fore front, Id like events in previous episodes to have some reference in consecutive episodes. NOT a - _I express my confession to you_ but its forgotten and not brought up again till 3 episodes later.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

Bender said:


> If Toph was actually looking like this when she got older the dude who married her is one lucky friend.



Back to ATLA for a moment, I really hope Toph got together with Sokka since Suki had no time for males. However basing on the pic ...


*Spoiler*: __ 








... I wouldn't be surprised that Toph married Zuko. I mean, look at those eyes. Those eyes are Fire Lord eyes, and eyes are usually used as a determinator for lineage or something.

But I'm still holding hope for Toph x Duke too :33


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 28, 2011)

Kirito said:


> But I'm still holding hope for Toph x *Duke* too :33



That would be _The Duke_..


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> That would be _The Duke_..



I like Duke more, it's cooler


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Toph married someone from the EK, considering Chief Bei Fong has the trademark emerald eyes.


As for the pairings, traditionally Zutara would be obvious, but in the context of the show you couldn't get any safer than Kataang.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 28, 2011)

...

It was Momo!

*runs*


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I'm pretty sure Toph married someone from the EK, considering Chief Bei Fong has the trademark emerald eyes.



Really? Maybe it's Toph's eyes, you know, if she wasn't blind.

... wait, Chief Bei Fong? Is that really her name?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 28, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> ...
> 
> It was Momo!
> 
> *runs*









Mystery solved.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

Candidate number 1 for the Chief's father. I can't believe I missed this.


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

Just an FYI:  They fixed the official trailer on Nick.com.  It's no longer sped up with high-pitched audio.

STILL gives me chills. :33


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

Oman said:


> Just an FYI:  They fixed the official trailer on Nick.com.  It's no longer sped up with high-pitched audio.



so how's the namechange doing for you? 

on topic: thank god. i couldn't handle bolin's voice going squeak


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 28, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Candidate number 1 for the Chief's father. I can't believe I missed this.



Holy continuity, Batman.





			
				Ms. Jove said:
			
		

> As for the pairings, traditionally Zutara would be obvious, but in the context of the show you couldn't get any safer than Kataang.



Traditionally?

How so?


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

Kirito said:


> so how's the namechange doing for you?
> 
> on topic: thank god. i couldn't handle bolin's voice going squeak


----------



## Burke (Jul 28, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Really? Maybe it's Toph's eyes, you know, if she wasn't blind.
> 
> ... wait, Chief Bei Fong? Is that really her name?



Well no its not her name, but i believe that that is what she likes to be called. Im sure we will know her first name at some point


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Candidate number 1 for the Chief's father. I can't believe I missed this.



Aww, that's so sweet; I couldn't pick a better father myself.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

Wait, so does this mean I officially got dibs on who Toph married? :33


----------



## Burke (Jul 28, 2011)

where is that from anyways, did someone make that? or is it legit


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

N??ps said:


> where is that from anyways, did someone make that? or is it legit



it's legit man, 100% related to the show.


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

I don't think it's canon actually; it seems to fall under the category of the easy-reader novels, which were not written by anyone on the show or involved in the show.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Kirito said:


> I like Duke more, it's cooler



Technically and grammatically speaking, he would be "The Duke" when referred to indirectly, and "Duke" when addressed directly.

As for that comic, it does not prove that Ohev, the boy, is Chief Bei Fong's father, but it is very good evidence, as Toph never had any strong romance with any other male character. I was rather hoping that Toph would get together with a major character from the main series, but as long as she found love eventually, I am satisfied.


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Technically and grammatically speaking, he would be "The Duke" when referred to indirectly, and "Duke" when addressed directly.
> 
> As for that comic, it does not prove that Ohev, the boy, is Chief Bei Fong's father, but it is very good evidence, as Toph never had any strong romance with any other male character. I was rather hoping that Toph would get together with a major character from the main series, but as long as she found love eventually, I am satisfied.



I told you, it's _The_ Duke!


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

Oman said:


> I don't think it's canon actually; it seems to fall under the category of the easy-reader novels, which were not written by anyone on the show or involved in the show.



You have a point there. But you never know you know. Bryke is especially mindful of what his fans think.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

I wouldn't be surprised if it was revealed that there are more airbenders than just Tenzin and his family in The Legend of Korra. I mean, I've always found it hard to believe that all of the Air Nomads were slain in the genocides at the war's advent. I mean, they're nomads. Why would they all be at the air temples during the Fire Nation's attacks?


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

Actually a comic  titled "Relics" published in "Avatar: The Last Airbender -- The Lost Adventures" addresses that.  Apparently there were some surivivors that slipped away from the original attack and sought refuge in the Earth Kingdom.  Rather than hunt them directly, the Fire Nation set up caves filled with Air Nomad relics and spread rumors that these caves were safe havens for Air Nomad survivors to gather.  In reality they were traps.  In the comic (set during Book 1) Zhao tried using the same tactic on Aang, but he escaped.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Jul 28, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it was revealed that there are more airbenders than just Tenzin and his family in The Legend of Korra. I mean, I've always found it hard to believe that all of the Air Nomads were slain in the genocides at the war's advent. I mean, they're nomads. Why would they all be at the air temples during the Fire Nation's attacks?


They had a comic thing, where the Fire Nation military lured airbenders to supposed safe havens, and slaughtered them


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Oman said:


> I don't think it's canon actually; it seems to fall under the category of the easy-reader novels, which were not written by anyone on the show or involved in the show.



Even if it is not canon, it still is a fairly interesting story, and I did notice that some of its content, both in the dialogue and the images, was rather suggestive, as were numerous other scenes in the main series.

I still am eager to learn who the new Fire Lord or Fire Lady of the Fire Nation is in _The Legend of Korra;_ what sort of person shall they be? Will they be as major as Ozai was, or will they be only a minor character, as was Kuei? And what of Omashu? I believe that it is safe to presume that Ba Sing Se shall still be very relevant seventy years later, but what of the Earth Kingdom's second-largest city? I would like to see what has become of it.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

Oman said:


> Actually a comic  titled "Relics" published in "Avatar: The Last Airbender -- The Lost Adventures" addresses that.  Apparently there were some surivivors that slipped away from the original attack and sought refuge in the Earth Kingdom.  Rather than hunt them directly, the Fire Nation set up caves filled with Air Nomad relics and spread rumors that these caves were safe havens for Air Nomad survivors to gather.  In reality they were traps.  In the comic (set during Book 1) Zhao tried using the same tactic on Aang, but he escaped.





ReikaiDemon said:


> They had a comic thing, where the Fire Nation military lured airbenders to supposed safe havens, and slaughtered them


That's cool, I'd never read that. However, I still think there would be at least _some_ Nomads, but it doesn't bother me, just a thought.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Stunna said:


> That's cool, I'd never read that. However, I still think there would be at least _some_ Nomads, but it doesn't bother me, just a thought.



Yes, I myself was hoping that other Air Nomads, apart from Aang, had survived, but apparently the story writers were very serious and literal when they wrote the title of _The Last Airbender._



Oman said:


> I told you, it's _The_ Duke!



I did agree with you, but only under certain circumstances, as I explained above.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

I read that the reason that Iroh could see Roku's dragon, Fang, in _The Spirit World: Winter Solstice Part 1_ was because he traveled to the Spirit World to search for the spirit of his late son, Lu Ten. Is there a comic that shows this, and does anyone know how Iroh did it?


----------



## Shade (Jul 28, 2011)

I wonder if the two seasons will be titled thematically like the original series. I doubt they'll be element names because Korra knows three already, plus it's not like she'll be travelling through the respective lands pertaining to the element like Aang did.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 28, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I myself was hoping that other Air Nomads, apart from Aang, had survived, but apparently the story writers were very serious and literal when they wrote the title of _The Last Airbender._



I still find it odd that monks could be terms "nomads". And I never could quite believe that ALL Air Nomads were massacred. They could have easily slipped into one of the three nations and intermarried with the local people. Having descendants isn't impossible. 

At least there's still fanfiction...


----------



## Quaero (Jul 28, 2011)

Was someone asking for older!Toph fan art?


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 28, 2011)

Well that's how it was. They've devoted themselves to a belief system and traveled the world. Even if an Air nomad decided to try and assimilate into another nation and somehow have a child, there's no way he would've endangered his or the child's life by teaching Airbending moves. If the Air nomad is going to live in secret then he would have to turn his back on his nationality all the way.


----------



## Bender (Jul 28, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Was someone asking for older!Toph fan art?



hubba hubba


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 28, 2011)

Hey, not bad, Bender! Where'd you find it? 

I've seen better, though.


----------



## Bender (Jul 28, 2011)

^

lol I didn't find that image Quaero did


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 28, 2011)

So does anyone know why Korra,Mako, and Bolin form the Bending MMA team?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> So does anyone know why Korra,Mako, and Bolin form the Bending MMA team?



Likely to oppose the anti-benders to show them that bending is not evil, but possibly also simply to be very awesome and badass, as well.



Bender said:


> hubba hubba



I agree; that is a very nice image.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 28, 2011)

Alright, nice pic, Quaero! 

Hey guys, I was wondering...Korra is sixteen, right? And she already knows three of the elemental bending arts. The Avatar isn't told their true identity until they're sixteen. When do you guys think Korra was told she was the Avatar, and when did she start her bending training?


----------



## Bender (Jul 28, 2011)

Ya know it's a damn shame we never got to see Toph go head to head with Azula like Zuko, Aang, and Sokka did.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 28, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Likely to oppose the anti-benders to show them that bending is not evil, but possibly also simply *to be very awesome and badass*, as well.



Mission accomplished.



Now all we have to do is wait for fall 2012 to come.

Just terrific.



Ruby Moon said:


> Alright, nice pic, Quaero!
> 
> Hey guys, I was wondering...Korra is sixteen, right? And she already knows three of the elemental bending arts. The Avatar isn't told their true identity until they're sixteen. When do you guys think Korra was told she was the Avatar, and when did she start her bending training?



First, I thought she is 17. I'll have to check on that. 

Second, after Aang I don't know if they would continue waiting until the avatar has become 16. Perhaps the world has a greater need for the avatar now and they might tell her sooner.

Third, when she left home to start her training in the trailer (I assume that was what was happening and those two people were her parents) she doesn't look that much younger than we  see her in the rest of the trailer. A year, 2 years maybe?

So either she left at age 16 and learned earthbending and firebending in more than one year or started traveling earlier and has had more time to study those elements.

Both are plausible, but my money is on her starting at age 16. If Aang could learn all that in less than one year, she should be able to do so as well.

And, this is also speculation on my part, it seems she was still training her firebending in the trailer. The parts with her wearing the predominately red outfit. Or it was a pro bending match.

EDIT: Rewatched it. That was a pro bending outfit. 

/My two cents.


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I read that the reason that Iroh could see Roku's dragon, Fang, in _The Spirit World: Winter Solstice Part 1_ was because he traveled to the Spirit World to search for the spirit of his late son, Lu Ten. Is there a comic that shows this, and does anyone know how Iroh did it?



No such comic exists, unfortunately. 



Ruby Moon said:


> Alright, nice pic, Quaero!
> 
> Hey guys, I was wondering...Korra is sixteen, right? And she already knows three of the elemental bending arts. The Avatar isn't told their true identity until they're sixteen. When do you guys think Korra was told she was the Avatar, and when did she start her bending training?



Maybe she's just awesome enough that she discovered her multiple bending abilities by herself.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 28, 2011)

Hmm...and here I thought that learning each art takes years to master. Like with Roku. 

It could be that Korra is a prodigy and just picks up bending like it's nothing.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jul 28, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> Mission accomplished.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, here's a picture of her from the panel;



She's firebending, and only looks about 7 or 8 years old.  So it seem that she learned she was the Avatar at a much younger age than even Aang did.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 28, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Actually, here's a picture of her from the panel;
> 
> 
> 
> She's firebending, and only looks about 7 or 8 years old.  So it seem that she learned she was the Avatar at a much younger age than even Aang did.



Isn't that concept art? I thought those were pictures drawn at an early stage of development.

I have not read the transcripts of the presentation at the con, so I don't know if that's canon.

/massive avatard


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 28, 2011)

^ Hey, cool! A young Korra. I wonder who took her to the Fire Nation...


----------



## SakugaDaichi (Jul 28, 2011)

Found this cool amv of the trailer while looking for it 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHHi2lTTdGo&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 28, 2011)

In response to the trailer



> this looks like a waterdown mcdonaldized version of anime!! Compare this trailer with anything that norio matsumoto has animated on naruto and birdy.. Both are for tv, but the talent level between the two shows is astounding~
> 
> It surprises me so much that there are so many americans here who feel the need to waterdown everything outside their own cultural bubble!
> 
> ...


----------



## Gunners (Jul 28, 2011)

Is that your response or a copy and paste from somewhere.


----------



## Jena (Jul 28, 2011)

> this looks like a waterdown mcdonaldized version of anime!! Compare this trailer with anything that norio matsumoto has animated on naruto and birdy.. Both are for tv, but the talent level between the two shows is astounding~
> 
> It surprises me so much that there are so many americans here who feel the need to waterdown everything outside their own cultural bubble!
> 
> ...




I don't even know where to begin, honestly.


----------



## Burke (Jul 28, 2011)

Shes not wearing a damned probending outfit in that scene. Probending takes place in an arena, and she is obviously at one of the poles.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 28, 2011)

First off that's crap. Look at the raw pencil test of this animation from the first season.



We don't need to see work by a Japanese artist to "school" us on our failure to see what a good anime should look like. Forget the fact that Avatar isn't an Anime, mind you.  The fight sequences in Avatar looked great and from what we've seen in Korra, they're going to look even better. That guy is an ass.

You can't tell me that the Zuko vs Jet fight scene wasn't pretty impressive.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZnLRnZTdFo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Bender (Jul 28, 2011)

@Superstar Seven

Jet was the man

It's a goddamn shame he died. 

Zuko vs Jet was pretty good imo


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 28, 2011)

^ I was at first unsure whether or not Jet died, but I was hoping he was still alive. Too bad Bryke decided to kill him off.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

I didn't think there was any ambiguity to his fate. I mean, Smellerbee said he would be alright, and Toph said she was lying. If anyone would know, it'd be Toph.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 28, 2011)

^ I hoped against hope...


----------



## Jena (Jul 28, 2011)

I love how they made a joke about the ambiguity of Jet's death in the Ember Island Players episode.


----------



## masterriku (Jul 28, 2011)

It's not 2006 anymore we know Jet is 100% dead because it was confirm in a 2007 panel.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 28, 2011)

I KNOW HE'S DEAD DAMMIT! STOP TAUNTING ME!!!


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Alright, nice pic, Quaero!
> 
> Hey guys, I was wondering...Korra is sixteen, right? And she already knows three of the elemental bending arts. The Avatar isn't told their true identity until they're sixteen. When do you guys think Korra was told she was the Avatar, and when did she start her bending training?


I read that she was seventeen..

Maybe she started at an early age? Probably around Aang's age or maybe even before that.


----------



## blakstealth (Jul 28, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> In response to the trailer


It's just wrong. Nothing else to it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 28, 2011)

masterriku said:


> It's not 2006 anymore we know Jet is 100% dead because it was confirm in a 2007 panel.



Wasn't it confirmed in show with Toph's comment...? 



> this looks like a waterdown mcdonaldized version of anime!! Compare this trailer with anything that norio matsumoto has animated on naruto and birdy.. Both are for tv, but the talent level between the two shows is astounding~
> 
> It surprises me so much that there are so many americans here who feel the need to waterdown everything outside their own cultural bubble!
> 
> ...


Eh, no. In comparison Naruto and Bleach look like dung modeled into shapes similar to a human's body. Avatar has and always will be the best animation, at least over Naruto,  Bleach and One Piece.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Wasn't it confirmed in show with Toph's comment...?



Its only heavily implied. Toph's comment merely highlights Jet's acceptance that he was dying. 

It would have been nice (perhaps expected) for the remaining Freedom Fighters to unite towards the finale and pay respects to their fallen leader. Though not to make things too solemn they touched back on it with a quick gag/skit instead.


----------



## Bender (Jul 28, 2011)

masterriku said:


> It's not 2006 anymore we know Jet is 100% dead because it was confirm in a 2007 panel.



Not only that but they confirmed it in the commentary in the "Ember Island" play episode.

In addition you'd have to be fucking ridiculous to think someone taking a solid hit from an earthbending shot to the chest.


@ Waking Dreamer

I think the Dai Li killed them.

Especially considering how Aang and gang had them chasing after them after leaving behind Smellerbee and Longshot.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 28, 2011)

But what would have happened to Smellerbee and Longshot? It looked as if they were planning to make a last stand so....the fact of whether those two actually survived the series...is actually a bigger question mark than Jets survival...


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

I assumed the Dai Li only captured them, and once Ba Sing Se was released from the Fire Nation's grasp by the White Lotus they were freed and lived out the remainder of their lives in the city.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 28, 2011)

I just realized that there are no references to the number 108 in _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ which is rather odd, as the number 108 is rather significant in Asian culture, and the writers of the series did add many elements of Asian culture to it. Perhaps the number 108 shall be referenced in the new series?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 28, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I assumed the Dai Li only captured them, and once Ba Sing Se was released from the Fire Nation's grasp by the White Lotus they were freed and lived out the remainder of their lives in the city.



That would make sense. 

It is a shame though that while the final battles that would determine the fate of the Avatarverse takes place, capable fighters are left in a prison cell.


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> In response to the trailer



Has this person actually seen the original show?


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> But what would have happened to Smellerbee and Longshot? It looked as if they were planning to make a last stand so....the fact of whether those two actually survived the series...is actually a bigger question mark than Jets survival...



If they DID survive ... then I wager they have a son named Jet in the new series. The son can dual wield like Jet can, and also fall back on archery. I mean, the "Korrew" needs a non-bender, and what better candidate than that kind of guy?

Or maybe he's old like Tenzin


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 28, 2011)

Oman said:


> Has this person actually seen the original show?



I seriously doubt it. There were some dazzling pieces of animation spread throughout all 3 books. Naruto's budget has to be spread out much farther because those ongoing anime don't take season breaks so you'll get the occasional burst of fine animation usually during fight scenes. Then of course there are the openings which are a tease because the actual movement in the program doesn't match to the fluidity in those intros. 

Avatar was solid all the way through. Backgrounds, storyboards, key animation, in-betweening, direction. Excellent. Like I wrote before, I don't need to see what some Japanese animator did for a 2 minute sequence. How does the overall episode stand on it's own? Don't show me a little spot of brilliance and then 7 minutes of static characters exchanging dialogue.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

^in addition to that, typical Japanese anime episodes are worked on for 3 weeks, iirc an Avatar ep was worked on for 3 months.


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I seriously doubt it. There were some dazzling pieces of animation spread throughout all 3 books. Naruto's budget has to be spread out much farther because those ongoing anime don't take season breaks so you'll get the occasional burst of fine animation usually during fight scenes. Then of course there are the openings which are a tease because the actual movement in the program doesn't match to the fluidity in those intros.
> 
> Avatar was solid all the way through. Backgrounds, storyboards, key animation, in-betweening, direction. Excellent. Like I wrote before, I don't need to see what some Japanese animator did for a 2 minute sequence. How does the overall episode stand on it's own? Don't show me a little spot of brilliance and then 7 minutes of static characters exchanging dialogue.



I found the place you got the post, and I think the guy's just trolling.  Either that or he's a 12 year old weeaboo who thinks anime is the best thing EVER and nothing from the west could ever match it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 28, 2011)

Kirito said:


> ^in addition to that, typical Japanese anime episodes are worked on for 3 weeks, iirc an Avatar ep was worked on for 3 months.



I do not doubt your words, judging from the animation and storytelling quality of this series, but do you have any evidence of that, please?


----------



## Kirito (Jul 28, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I do not doubt your words, judging from the animation and storytelling quality of this series, but do you have any evidence of that, please?



It's actually 2 sources, and I don't know where to get them now since it's so far in the past already lol. The 3 months thing I got from Avatarspirit forums, and the 3 weeks I got from AP Forums. They were both posts from mods of the respective forums, and I trust their word.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 28, 2011)

I recall Mike and Bryan saying that an episode in it's totality takes 9 months to complete, from the time they begin work in the US to the return of material from Korea and post-production.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 28, 2011)

Oman said:


> I found the place you got the post, and I think the guy's just trolling.  Either that or he's a 12 year old weeaboo who thinks anime is the best thing EVER and nothing from the west could ever match it.



Truth is I think the guy actually believes this and I have to add my 2 cents all the time. It's a problem of mine. I can admit that the artist he referred to is a fine animator but he's probably one of those guys who wants to be right all the time, he'd even call that Zuko Vs. Jet scene I linked to as rubbish. To him Avatar is one of the worst looking shows he's seen. 

One has to wonder if a show like Avatar and Phineas & Ferb are on the same level visually to him. Well, I won't be throwing out my Artbook any time soon.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I recall Mike and Bryan saying that an episode in it's totality takes 9 months to complete, from the time they begin work in the US to the return of material from Korea and post-production.


I can't help but lol when comparing that to the production of a single South Park episode, which takes about a week.


----------



## Wan (Jul 28, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well, I won't be throwing out my Artbook any time soon.



Amen to that!


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 28, 2011)

Well the Avatar series had the resources to pull in the quality animation studios, martial arts masters/choreographers, motion camera technologies, the time and the mostly non-competitive animated action series of western animation. 

Why wouldnt they produce high quality work? Comparisons to Naruto/Bleach anime is flawed because higher-ups dont want breaks in between episodes. They want a weekly episode for most of the year which leads to the horrible anime fillers and sluggish pacing...

If you want some viable comparison between Avatar and anime you need to  look at the more shorter series like the 13, 26, and 50 episode anime series.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 28, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I can't help but lol when comparing that to the production of a single South Park episode, which takes about a week.



Well the great thing about that quick turnaround is that the episodes can cover topical subjects. The Boondocks never got really political because the episodes would have seemed dated 9 months later. So it sacrificed that and ended up being one of the best looking American animated programs for adults.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 28, 2011)

Well to be fair, The Boondocks is still a political show, it's just more subtle about it than the comics.


----------



## Jena (Jul 28, 2011)

I always liked K Chronicles better than Boondocks.

/this has nothing to do with anything


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 28, 2011)

If Macgruder wanted it to be almost exactly like the series, he could have gone with a flash animation studio and they could have churned out episodes within 2 weeks. Just have Huey and Riley walking around and griping for a half hour.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

I was wondering guys...is it possible for an Avatar to "accidentally" bend another element before they come across a master to teach them? What I mean is, is it possible Korra bent fire when she was a kid without someone telling her she could do so?

*sorry if I make zero sense, I'm not sure how to work it *


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

Unless they're in the Avatar State, I don't believe so.


----------



## Wan (Jul 29, 2011)

I think it's possible.  I mean, how else would one find out that they're a bender at all?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Unless they're in the Avatar State, I don't believe so.



So its impossible for an Avatar to bend an element before he gains a master? Oh man, that's kinda lame. 

EDIT:

@Oman:
That's what I was thinking! How could anyone find out they could bend at all if that was so? 

Could Toph's "masters" be an example of what I'm talking about....? Its the only time I can recall someone bending an element without a master "telling" them what to do, she did it herself and continued to learn from the Badgermoles.


----------



## Jena (Jul 29, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Could Toph's "masters" be an example of what I'm talking about....? Its the only time I can recall someone bending an element without a master "telling" them what to do, she did it herself and continued to learn from the Badgermoles.


Katara also figured out how to waterbend (rudimentarily, anyway) without a master.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

So its safe to say it can be done then? Because judging by how great Korra is with Firebending, she's been at it for a while and I think the only logical explanation is that she was bending fire before she left her village by a accidental discovery...


----------



## Wan (Jul 29, 2011)

I think it can be done, but doesn't happen often.  Though it may have happened for Korra.


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I was wondering guys...is it possible for an Avatar to "accidentally" bend another element before they come across a master to teach them? What I mean is, is it possible Korra bent fire when she was a kid without someone telling her she could do so?
> 
> *sorry if I make zero sense, I'm not sure how to work it *



yes
im sure aang waterbended before he learned it

right?


----------



## Wan (Jul 29, 2011)

N??ps said:


> yes
> im sure aang waterbended before he learned it
> 
> right?



"Possible" does not mean "probable" or "always", N??ps.


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2011)

Oman said:


> "Possible" does not mean "probable" or "always", N??ps.



I understand Amon Oman


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

N??ps said:


> yes
> im sure aang waterbended before he learned it
> 
> right?



Didn't he have Katara teach him before he "actually" waterbended though? Someone has been arguing with me that its impossible for Korra to bend before she was taught by a master, and I just thought to ask you guys about it.


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Didn't he have Katara teach him before he "actually" waterbended though? Someone has been arguing with me that its impossible for Korra to bend before she was taught by a master, and I just thought to ask you guys about it.



yeah, he didnt know the forms, but he controlled water with his mind so... lol


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 29, 2011)

Bending is related to your emotions and you dont need to be taught how to experience your emotions, so like Katara you can expeirence some of your bending powers before even being taught.

Korra experiencing firebending at the age of eight is unlikely Id say since her natural affinity is waterbending (with firebending being opposite), but since there is already concept art we cant say its not possible.


----------



## Wan (Jul 29, 2011)

N??ps said:


> I understand Amon Oman


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

Alright, thanks for answering my questions guys! Wasn't sure on my own! :33


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 29, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I recall Mike and Bryan saying that an episode in it's totality takes 9 months to complete, from the time they begin work in the US to the return of material from Korea and post-production.



Wow! That is very intense; for a 61-episode series, that is a total of 549 months, or 45 years and 9 months! I must admire that level of determination, but it is obvious that the series did not actually take that long to create, so either creators of the series were exaggerating slightly, or multiple episodes were produced simultaneously.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 29, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Wow! That is very intense; for a 61-episode series, that is a total of 549 months, or 45 years and 9 months! I must admire that level of determination, but it is obvious that the series did not actually take that long to create, so either creators of the series were exaggerating slightly, or multiple episodes were produced simultaneously.



You got it right on the nose with that last one. I don't know what the production time for a flash animated program like Johnny Test or something is but episodes of hand drawn animated shows in America all take 9 months to finish. Even something as simple looking as The Simpsons is accomplished in that amount of time. You know my first education on how an animated show is produced can be traced back to an episode of Tiny Toon Adventures called _Animaniacs_.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzDnfPcvPyU[/YOUTUBE]

This is from 1990-1991 so the digital revolution was years away at this point. The painstaking labor of inking and painting a character on a cell doesn't apply anymore. In fact, drawing backgrounds, layouts or animation isn't even done on paper. They're done on these - [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_RcC5tvs1k[/YOUTUBE]

The average production time for a traditional animated film coming out out of Disney would be about 2 1/2 - 3 Years. Those are animated on 1's which means that there's a drawing for every 24 frames of film. Most Television animation is drawn on 2's or sometimes 3's.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

Just flipping through the screenshots of the trailer. 



Two things come to mind.

1. Being the avatar makes you ripped.

2. Avatar is bringing sexy back.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 29, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> Just flipping through the screenshots of the trailer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah,holy shit,that's an awesome back for a woman..

She is really,really fit and..thick..

Heck,just look at this:



*Spoiler*: __ 









Wow..


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 29, 2011)

Korra vs Azula (at her peak and non-crazy) at the FN palace (where she versed Zuko and Katarra), who would win!


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 29, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Korra vs Azula (at her peak and non-crazy) at the FN palace (where she versed Zuko and Katarra), who would win!



In strictly hand-to-hand combat?

Did ya see those muscles?


Korra would likely merk her.

In bending..I'd say as much,especially as Korra has the multiple elements advantage AND she seems to enjoy combat..at least as much as Azula..


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

cookie bending.

on topic: i guess benders 70 years into the future would be a lot better than benders from the past since the art of earthbending by sifu toph, the art of chi blocking by ty lee has been spread throughout the world.

would the gaang fare well here?

now that i think about it ... would you people like a time travel arc where korra accidentally sends the gaang into her time frame? 

edit:



what.


----------



## blakstealth (Jul 29, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> Yeah,holy shit,that's an awesome back for a woman..
> 
> She is really,really fit and..thick..
> 
> ...


Goddamn, Korra..goddamn


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 29, 2011)

Ciupy said:


> In strictly hand-to-hand combat?
> 
> Did ya see those muscles?
> 
> ...



Well Azula is still hella fast and agile. She was still out maneuvering Aang, Toph and Sokka with no firebending powers. How about against Azula and her two Dai Li agents...? 

Though if that becomes one sided how about Korrew vs Azula & 2 Dai Li agents. 

*_Goes into complete speculation_*

Though it would be interesting to see how 1Firebender + 2Earthbenders vs 1Firebender + 1Earthbender + 1Water/Earth/Firebender (no AS though) would go.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

blakstealth said:


> Goddamn, Korra..goddamn



begs the age old question:

does korra .. you know ... SHAVE those armpits


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> on topic: i guess benders 70 years into the future would be a lot better than benders from the past since the art of earthbending by sifu toph, the art of chi blocking by ty lee has been spread throughout the world.
> 
> would the gaang fare well here?
> 
> now that i think about it ... would you people like a time travel arc where korra accidentally sends the gaang into her time frame?




Well Id like to see a round of Korra vs Zuko, Toph and Katarra. How would the Masters of bending from a different generation fare against Korra. 

_*Gets idea for fanart*_


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well Id like to see a round of Korra vs Zuko, Toph and Katarra. How would the Masters of bending from a different generation fare against Korra.
> 
> _*Gets idea for fanart*_



i'd assume if korra and aang ever battled right now aang would win, even with the handicap of aang only using airbending. korra has in NO WAY encountered a master airbender before. she has no idea how they fight and how they move about .. i guess.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 29, 2011)

Korra is ripped because she already knows earthbending most likely


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> Korra is ripped because she already knows earthbending most likely



Just look at what happened to Aang when he learned earthbending.

The boy buffed up pretty quick.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 29, 2011)

As Amon seems to be somewhat similar to Ozai, currently, I wonder if there shall be a character in _The Legend of Korra_ who is similar to Azula? Would anyone else here like to see such a character?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

Maybe a second-in-command, but not someone with a similar personality.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

so i rewatched cave of two lovers today for no apparent reason. who do you think korra will go with if they EVER encounter that cave again?


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 29, 2011)

She'll likely go with killing her singing traveling companions - which I support 100 percent.  

...damn this is going to be sweet.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> so i rewatched cave of two lovers today for no apparent reason. who do you think korra will go with if they EVER encounter that cave again?



The series is going to take place in United Republic (That was the name, right?), so I don't know if she is going to take excursions to Omashu. I think they are going to focus on exploring that city(state). Like Ba Sing Se in the second season of the last series.

The tunnels wouldn't keep her for long. Korra would just punch through the walls with her bare fists, without bending. Or wrestle the badger moles into submission, make them her bitches and ride them bareback out of the cave.

As for any romantic entanglement, I don't know. I just have this feeling that there won't be that much focus on her love life. If it's handled well, and I'm sure Bryke can manage that, I will support any pairing.  As long as  they sneek in a few hints to sex in there like they did in the third season, that was handled quite well.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Soul Assassin said:


> She'll likely go with killing her singing traveling companions - which I support 100 percent.
> 
> ...damn this is going to be sweet.



You have a morbid sense of humor. 



MunchKing said:


> The series is going to take place in United Republic (That was the name, right?), so I don't know if she is going to take excursions to Omashu. I think they are going to focus on exploring that city(state). Like Ba Sing Se in the second season of the last series.
> 
> The tunnels wouldn't keep her for long. Korra would just punch through the walls with her bare fists, without bending. Or wrestle the badger moles into submission, make them her bitches and ride them bareback out of the cave.
> 
> As for any romantic entanglement, I don't know. I just have this feeling that there won't be that much focus on her love life. If it's handled well, and I'm sure Bryke can manage that, I will support any pairing.  As long as  they sneek in a few hints to sex in there like they did in the third season, that was handled quite well.



Oh right. She learned Earthbending already, and I agree too with United Republic being the main location for everything. Man the new series has a huge spot to fill.

United Republic sounds like some kind of drugstore to me.

Sex hints? Care to fill me in? The only sex hint I remember was Sokka expecting Suki in his tent.


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> Just flipping through the screenshots of the trailer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Look at that mans cloths. 
Its the exact same as Mako's
Discuss


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm thinking one of two things:

1. Mako was part of some kind of Mafia, wanted out, and had to enlist Korra's help in doing so.

2. It's just a United Republic fashion and coincidental.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> You have a morbid sense of humor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The episode Nightmares and Daydreams. Just watch Zuko and Mai. Sending the servants away to fetch a fruit tart (with rose petals on top)? Mai trying to cheer Zuko up with offering to order a whole lot of fruit tarts a bit later when he hears of the war meeting? Not as obvious as Sokka and Suki, I admit.

It were the little things they snuck in that made me chuckle, although the Sokka/Suki thing was as subtle as a sledgehammer.



N??ps said:


> Look at that mans cloths.
> Its the exact same as Mako's
> Discuss



1. It's someone Mako knows and just happens to have bought the same outfit. To avoid an embarrassing social situation with a peer, he asks Korra to come up with a solution.

2. Mako managed to piss off Korra by pulling a mean prank on her, resulting in a chase scene. He escapes her wrath by disappearing in the crowd. Korra sees someone that has the same build, hair color and outfit as him and charges blindly.

Hilarity ensues.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Stunna said:


> 2. It's just a United Republic fashion and coincidental.



*cue hipster fashion joke*



MunchKing said:


> The episode Nightmares and Daydreams. Just watch Zuko and Mai. Sending the servants away to fetch a fruit tart (with rose petals on top)? Mai trying to cheer Zuko up with offering to order a whole lot of fruit tarts a bit later when he hears of the war meeting? Not as obvious as Sokka and Suki, I admit.
> 
> It were the little things they snuck in that made me chuckle, although the Sokka/Suki thing was as subtle as a sledgehammer.



Wow. You people really go out of the way to research these things, or you just caught it first time you saw it?

Anyway, I rewatched it, and yes, even in the Avatarverse obligatory lover sex after a hard day's work even if you're still 17 exists too. Props.


----------



## DedValve (Jul 29, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> You got it right on the nose with that last one. I don't know what the production time for a flash animated program like Johnny Test or something is but episodes of hand drawn animated shows in America all take 9 months to finish. Even something as simple looking as The Simpsons is accomplished in that amount of time. You know my first education on how an animated show is produced can be traced back to an episode of Tiny Toon Adventures called _Animaniacs_.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzDnfPcvPyU[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



It's sort of funny that it takes months for these shows to be completed even after how far technology as advanced. Makes me appreciate that a south park episode can be done in a matter of days.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> *cue hipster fashion joke*
> 
> Wow. You people really go out of the way to research these things, or you just caught it first time you saw it?
> 
> Anyway, I rewatched it, and yes, even in the Avatarverse obligatory lover sex after a hard day's work even if you're still 17 exists too. Props.



I noticed the second time I saw the episode that when the scene goes back to Zuko and Mai, it's morning. That meant he stayed the night. The last time we saw them was when they sent the servants away.

I put two and two together. Once you figure that out, you catch a few things you missed the first time.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

I only noticed that one once I read about it on TV Tropes.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I only noticed that one once I read about it on TV Tropes.



It was also the page where I found out the visual pun of Sokka making a flower necklace ( a lei ) after he got laid.

Don't click. Tvtropes will eat your soul.


----------



## DedValve (Jul 29, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I only noticed that one once I read about it on TV Tropes.



You've just destroyed my innocence.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

Mission accomplished.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

DedValve said:


> You've just destroyed my innocence.



I willingly destroyed mine a long time ago. 

I'm in the mood for "fruit tarts" now dammit.


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> It was also the page where I found out the visual pun of Sokka making a flower necklace ( a lei ) after he got laid.



lol It was so unnecessary to make a "Getting crap past the radar" on Sokka getting laid. It was so obvious what happened with him and Suki. 

Myst've been a shit ton of bribing by the producers to get that scene past the censor.  




> Don't click. Tvtropes will eat your soul.



Tvtropes already ate my soul


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 29, 2011)

So anyway...




			
				The Track Team said:
			
		

> Music and Sound design for Korra is going well! Half-way through the first ep. Emotional!




Just in case anyone was a little overeager after Bryan's plane-on-tarmac analogy, there's still quite a bit they have to do.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 29, 2011)

Bender said:


> It was so obvious what happened with him and Suki.


And Toph watched the whole thing.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 29, 2011)

Hey, Toph can't...

Oh...


OHHHH...


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> And Toph watched the whole thing.



Of course.

After going back to the girls tent she had a little "action" with her and was so turned on she went to watch what happened with her and Sokka.


----------



## DedValve (Jul 29, 2011)

I can never look at the goddamn drill the same way again. I hate you Stunna. I really do.

EDIT: Oh you guys are ruining this show for me!

Not toph ;( 

This is the reason I never joined any avatar sites when I was watching the show, I thought things would change with korra


----------



## Jena (Jul 29, 2011)

Bender said:


> Of course.
> 
> After going back to the girls tent she had a little "action" with her and was so turned on she went to watch what happened with her and Sokka.





Or, rather, not sure if serious or just mocking DDJ


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2011)

Jena said:


> Or, rather, not sure if serious or just mocking DDJ




A little both.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

yknow i asked you people if you were okay with korra meeting the gaang through some freak time traveling right?

whaddya know there's fanart of it

edit: wait toph can see?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

Time travel in Avatar? Do not want.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> wait toph can see?


Behold the true capabilities of Energybending.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

DedValve said:


> I can never look at the goddamn drill the same way again. I hate you Stunna. I really do.



When I first witnessed the walls of Ba Sing Se being penetrated by a giant drill, which spilled a white sticky sludge as it progressed into the fortifications, I wondered what the creators were thinking. 

The Gaang and Ozai's angels being covered in said sludge after Aang worked the top of the drill and finished the job just made it funnier.



DedValve said:


> EDIT: Oh you guys are ruining this show for me!
> 
> Not toph ;(
> 
> This is the reason I never joined any avatar sites when I was watching the show, I thought things would change with korra



You underestimate this fandom.

Especially with ladies  already turning Korrasexual.


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Time travel in Avatar? Do not want.



Timebending


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 29, 2011)

>>Overthinking symbolism into The Drill


>>You won't even see the banhammer coming.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> >>Overthinking symbolism into The Drill
> 
> 
> >>You won't even see the banhammer coming.



I'll play nice. I promise.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 29, 2011)

I am glad to see that I am not the only viewer here who noticed the frequent innuendos and subtle suggestive content. 

There was also the scene in _The Beach,_ where Toph made a comment about Aang "being exposed," but Aang responded that he was wearing clothing. There was the scene in _The Headband,_ when Aang and Katara danced, and were breathing heavily afterward. There was another scene in _The Beach,_ where, after Mai rejected either Chan or Ruon-Jian (I cannot recall who), Zuko said, "have fun by yourself, loserboy." There was another scene in _The Beach,_ where Azula and Ty Lee were discussing attracting boys, Azula accused Ty Lee of being "a tease," and Ty Lee remarked that the boys were probably afraid that Azula would "do terrible things to them." There was the scene in _The Boiling Rock,_ where Mai states that she "does not need protection," and Zuko agrees. Then, there was the scene where Azula was lying in bed, acting in a very seductive manner toward Zuko. And, of course, my favorite innuendo: the Drill; it was a massive cylindrical object that was designed to penetrate the walls of Ba Sing Se, the "impenetrable city," and the manner in which the slurry burst from it was also extremely blatant, as well.



Bender said:


> After going back to the girls tent she had a little "action" with her and was so turned on she went to watch what happened with her and Sokka.



Do not forget the scene where Ty Lee remarked that she had "bonded" with the Kyoshi warriors in prison, and was grinning broadly when she said so.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 29, 2011)

"Notice" and "invent" are not the same.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 29, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> "Notice" and "invent" are not the same.



Are you saying that the content that I perceived existed only in my own mind?


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> >>Overthinking symbolism into The Drill



lol

just look at this article:



I'm pretty sure that the "drill" was what Sokka was thinking about during his and Suki's "encounter" in "The southern Raiders" episode.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 29, 2011)

Ok, I'll guess we'll  have to tone it down at little. 

I read somewhere that there will be a graphic novel by Dark Horse Comics detailing the Gaang after the war, events that happened in the gap between that series and Korra. 



> Additionally, Dark Horse will create all-new Airbender stories that will be published as digest-style original graphic novels?conveniently sized paperback collections?in early 2012. Picking up where the season three finale left off, this new series will follow the further adventures of Aang and his friends, as they help to rebuild a world torn apart by 100 years of war.



Does anyone know if some will be sold in Europe? I would like to read those.

Edit: Going to bed. Found this gem on deviant art.



The blues brothers.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 29, 2011)

This may not mean much but for anyone interested - 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIJYEaBH1Yk[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

Someone post a link to a tumblr page full of Zuko gifs.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 29, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you saying that the content that I perceived existed only in my own mind?








Stunna said:


> Someone post a link to a tumblr page full of Zuko gifs.




I'll have to research more deeply, but this should hold you over:


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm capped, but I.O.U.


----------



## Jena (Jul 29, 2011)

DedValve said:


> This is the reason I never joined any avatar sites when I was watching the show, I thought things would change with korra



IKR? I'll never forget the first time I dared to type in "Avatar" in the deviantart search function. My innocence was shattered*. I think that was when I first discovered that Zutara _actually_ existed-one of the people I watched the show with liked the couple, but she hated Mai so the rest of us thought she just wanted Katara to end up with Zuko because of her hatred, but nope, turns out that was an actual ship with a rabid religious-like following.

I may have to avoid this thread when Korra actually airs. I don't want you filthy internet people tainting my show. 


*Well, my _Avatar_ innocence anyway. I think my innocence was originally destroyed when we got our internet returned and I decided to type "Full Metal Alchemist and Edward" into Google and the first result was a picture of Armstrong pounding him from behind over a table.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 29, 2011)

Jena said:


> IKR? I'll never forget the first time I dared to type in "Avatar" in the deviantart search function. My innocence was shattered*. I think that was when I first discovered that Zutara _actually_ existed-one of the people I watched the show with liked the couple, but she hated Mai so the rest of us thought she just wanted Katara to end up with Zuko because of her hatred, but nope, turns out that was an actual ship with a rabid religious-like following.
> 
> I may have to avoid this thread when Korra actually airs. I don't want you filthy internet people tainting my show.
> 
> ...



Wow,talk about a rough awakening..

I wonder if M&B will take the series even further into the future of the Avatar-verse..

They DID say that the original vision was for a bender in the future,with flying cars and shit!


----------



## Quaero (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm not sure where, but I remember reading an article saying that one of the stories Byrke was interested in telling in the ATLA universe was the tale of the first Avatar...

My memory could be playing tricks on me though.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 29, 2011)

Quaero said:


> I'm not sure where, but I remember reading an article saying that *one of the stories Byrke was interested in telling in the ATLA universe was the tale of the first Avatar...*My memory could be playing tricks on me though.



I think I heard about that as well.

Fuck yeah,I'd want to know who the first Avatar was and his/her story..

I always imagined that the first Avatar was alot like Siddhartha..


----------



## Burke (Jul 29, 2011)

i dunno, it could be weird going into korra, and then going back so far as the first avatar.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 29, 2011)

N??ps said:


> i dunno, it could be weird going into korra, and then going back so far as the first avatar.



Well,for what it's worth,I don't think Legend Of Korra is going to be that long.

Plus,you would go basically from steampunk to the mythical times of the first Avatar.

It would have an epic feel for sure!


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

> wait toph can see?


No, but she 'sees' through Earthbending/vibrations/etc etc.


----------



## Kirito (Jul 29, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No, but she 'sees' through Earthbending/vibrations/etc etc.



no no look at the pic once again

she's looking directly at korra's face. when toph expects a person she just looks in that person's general direction right


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 29, 2011)

Quaero said:


> I'm not sure where, but I remember reading an article saying that one of the stories Byrke was interested in telling in the ATLA universe was the tale of the first Avatar...
> 
> My memory could be playing tricks on me though.




I believe that was in the ASN interview.


In fact, it's less jarring to go from Korra to the initial Avatar; Korra acts as a transitory story for the audience. Obviously the fandom have not disengaged themselves from the original characters, even after three years, so going into a completely unrelated story would be disorienting and unsatisfactory for a lot of people.

But with this story, the story of Korra, a story developed to be self-contained (or so it appears at this point)... Korra almost seems liken the series that provides us all with some closure and allows us to move on.


If the Avatar franchise folds without delving into the story of the first Avatar, that would be a shame. But maybe Mike & Bryan consider that story too conceptual for a Nickelodeon audience.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

Kirito said:


> *no no look at the pic once again*
> 
> she's looking directly at korra's face. when toph expects a person she just looks in that person's general direction right



Picture? I didn't see a picture...  And she, Toph, is looking at Korra? Do you have a link to this image?


----------



## Jena (Jul 29, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Picture? I didn't see a picture...  And she, Toph, is looking at Korra? Do you have a link to this image?



Here      .


*Spoiler*: __ 






Kirito said:


> yknow i asked you people if you were okay with korra meeting the gaang through some freak time traveling right?
> 
> whaddya know there's fanart of it
> 
> edit: wait toph can see?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 29, 2011)

Toph can see the entire figure of a person, from head to toes. I'm sure she'd know where to point her head to make... 'eye contact'.


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 29, 2011)

Has there been any new news on Korra recently?

I'm on vacay so I'm not on the net much and don't have much time to read through the 30+ pages since I left.

D:


----------



## Jena (Jul 29, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> Has there been any new news on Korra recently?
> 
> I'm on vacay so I'm not on the net much and don't have much time to read through the 30+ pages since I left.
> 
> D:





_Yes_. There's been a ton of information from Comic Con. Maybe someone can gather it all up for you...

There's a trailer up on the Nick website, at the very least, you can watch that. Voice actors have been announced, Korra's companions have been revealed, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

Jena said:


> Here      .
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



That's a niceart piece 

I was assuming it was official art he/she was referring to...but either way, she can "see" the person through vibrations, and I'm sure she can see where their head would be too...

@narutoguy03:
A trailer, some characters, story and more has been released. Here is a compressed version of the news thus far:


*Spoiler*: __ 




Trailer:



Release Date is so far dated to be: Fall 2012.

*Characters Thus far:*
Korra, Avatar, Waterbender
Naga, Korra's Spirit Animal
Bolin, earthbender, brother of Mako.
Mako, firebender, brother of Bolin 
Tenzin, Airbender, Aang's son (assuming the oldest and the teacher of Korra)
Pema, Tenzin's wife; pregnant once more
Jinora, Tenzin's oldest child, a bookworm girl!
Ikki, Tenzin's second oldest, a speedy mouth, super active girl.
Meelo, Tenzin's youngest child thus far.
!!!! Bei Fong, Toph's daughter; leader of the Metalbenders (which Toph founded)

Oman/Omen/Amon, villain!
(reason for multi names is because no one is sure; current alleged name is "Amon")

Photobucket with all the concepts/arts:


Some gifs:


Some art:






*Spoiler*: __ 





> My ‘main event’ at Comic-Con was defintely the Legend of Korra panel which I waited four hours for. It seems Nickelodeon finally decided to throw us Last Airbender fans a bone this year at the San Diego Comic-Con. Not only did we get to see an amazing trailer, but detailed concept art and a lot of information regarding the upcoming series. First, well start with the key-points they unloaded on us:
> 
> * The new time period takes place 70 years after Aang and his allies restored peace to the world.
> * A core theme in the show is airbender spirituality.
> ...


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 29, 2011)

I was here for the most part when this thread blew up with all that Korra stuff.

But I should re-word my question lol.

Has there been any major news since Monday?

That was the last time I remember looking at this thread.


----------



## Jena (Jul 29, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> I was here for the most part when this thread blew up with all that Korra stuff.
> 
> But I should re-word my question lol.
> 
> ...



Oh, ha-ha. I thought you hadn't been here in a few months and were just checking in.

Um...I'm not sure. I don't think there has been more information released, other than maybe some stuff from comic-con being trickled onto the internet. Nothing major though.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 29, 2011)

Not that I'm aware of...unless you count Oman's name being changed (which probably isn't 100% right) to Amon as news?


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 29, 2011)

Amon?

I like that better.

Makes him sound badass.


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> That's a niceart piece
> 
> I was assuming it was official art he/she was referring to...but either way, she can "see" the person through vibrations, and I'm sure she can see where their head would be too...
> 
> ...



Thats.... :S

A very painful waiting date


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Part of getting back into the rhythm of the Avatar fandom is getting used to the preposterous waiting again.


----------



## Koi (Jul 30, 2011)




----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

Wow, that's pretty good! She just needs to hit the gym.


----------



## Wang Fire (Jul 30, 2011)

Or learn Earthbending.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 30, 2011)

shouldn't she be white


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 30, 2011)

That's a pretty good cosplay


----------



## Koi (Jul 30, 2011)

Pfft, I'd still kill to look as good as she does.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2011)

Wow, that is a good cosplay! If only there was video of her **doing backflips or something. pek



Bender said:


> Thats.... :S
> 
> A very painful waiting date



I know, its such a long wait. But Jove is right.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Well then, there I spy some Korra-Yue shipping fanart. 


Other stuff:





Someone made a Pabu:


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 30, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Other stuff:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh that Paboo is so adorable! I wish I could do that kind of work. If I could, I would make a Paboo a little bigger than a cat so it can be a teddy. pek

That's a really nice fanart of Korra! I'm saving it and adding to to my Korra library. :3


----------



## Burke (Jul 30, 2011)

for DDJ or whatever


----------



## Koi (Jul 30, 2011)

..You know, that cosplay is from last weekend.  I wonder if she was the girl they had AT the panel.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

I assumed she was...


Edit: After checking the video, that's definitely her.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 30, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Well then, there I spy some *Korra-Yue *shipping fanart.




Oh,I saw a pic of that as well and it had great art actually.

Couldn't post it here without getting my ass banned though!


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 30, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Part of getting back into the rhythm of the Avatar fandom is getting used to the preposterous waiting again.



One year of waiting is nothing to veteran avatar fans. Nothing.  

Because we know it's worth it.

also 

Dat cosplay


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

You know a story I really want to see? An alternate reality story that shows what would have happened if Aang was killed during Sozin's Comet, the Avatar reincarnation cycle was broken, almost all of Team Avatar (at least Katara, Zuko, the White Lotus, and maybe Toph) was killed, and Ozai and Azula won the war for the Fire Nation, successfully taking over the world. I think it would be sick to see a new rebellion led by Sokka and Suki, sort of like John Conner and his wife, in a post-apocalyptic future. Maybe ten years or so. In that time, Sokka could have completed his sword training under Piandao, mastered archery under the Yu Yan, learned the chi-blocking technique somehow, and kicked butt as the new protagonist.


----------



## Koi (Jul 30, 2011)

*ACCURATE*


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Alright, the fandom aging is really frustrating me. 3-6 years ago, I could get anything I wanted on ebay for a sensible price. There wouldn't even be much competition. I got just about every SDCC giveaway from 2005-2008.

For instance: The hologram cards from 2007 everyone went nuts for? I got them for like 10 bucks the week after.


Korra posters are going for 50 bucks Buy It Now, and up to at least that much in auction. Not the limited edition prints, mind you, the fucking regular posters.

Not the regular posters signed by Mike & Bryan and Joaquim... just the posters themselves, unadorned. I got the SDCC2008 poster, signed by Mike and Bryan, for half that. Bloody hell.


These fucking kids now have disposable income. God damn it.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 30, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know a story I really want to see? An alternate reality story that shows what would have happened if Aang was killed during Sozin's Comet, the Avatar reincarnation cycle was broken, almost all of Team Avatar (at least Katara, Zuko, the White Lotus, and maybe Toph) was killed, and Ozai and Azula won the war for the Fire Nation, successfully taking over the world. I think it would be sick to see a new rebellion led by Sokka and Suki, sort of like John Conner and his wife, in a post-apocalyptic future. Maybe ten years or so. In that time, Sokka could have completed his sword training under Piandao, mastered archery under the Yu Yan, learned the chi-blocking technique somehow, and kicked butt as the new protagonist.



I'm sure there is some dark fanfiction out there that suits your needs. But that is waaay to dark for Nick. 

And honestly, Toph could never be killed. She'd just challenge Death to a wrestling match and make it cry like a little girl.



Koi said:


> *ACCURATE*



I want that on billboards. Imagine seeing that on your daily commute.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

And to answer your question from a while ago, MK, I haven't seen anything about a European release of these things. The best you could do is bite the bullet and get it shipped there from Amazon. Or find someone with an Amazon account willing to let you buy it through them and have them ship it.

Where in Belgium are you, Flemish or Walloon?


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 30, 2011)

Well Jove, the obvious solution to that financial problem would be to...not buy the poster.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

The obvious solution is for these fucking kids to leave the fandom.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 30, 2011)

50 dollars just for a poster?

An awesome poster with gorgeous  artwork, but still just a poster.



Ms. Jove said:


> And to answer your question from a while ago, MK, I haven't seen anything about a European release of these things. The best you could do is bite the bullet and get it shipped there from Amazon. Or find someone with an Amazon account willing to let you buy it through them and have them ship it.
> 
> Where in Belgium are you, Flemish or Walloon?



Flanders. You're right, that probably would be best. Oh well, it's still a long wait.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Ah, interesting. I've caught an episode of the Dutch dub and I thought it was pretty good, at least as good as the rumblings made it out to be.

And you guys got Day of Black Sun first, inexplicably. That was a wild week. I remember Distant Horizon would only allow people to discuss that episode if they did so in Dutch.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 30, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Ah, interesting. I've caught an episode of the Dutch dub and I thought it was pretty good, at least as good as the rumblings made it out to be.
> 
> And you guys got Day of Black Sun first, inexplicably. That was a wild week. I remember Distant Horizon would only allow people to discuss that episode if they did so in Dutch.



That was an interesting decision by the network, to say the least. 

My only problem with the Dutch dub was the voice of Aang. His voice actress wasn't suited for him.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 30, 2011)

I used to fly Walloons as a kid.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

I used to be quite upset by the airing in Nederland, taken as the confluence of premiere's outside the US. Some argued against this, but I still find it inherently unfair when a show premieres outside it's native country. Where else does this happen? How many other examples of this even exist?


That said, I've come around on the Dutch airing, for a number of reasons but the most pragmatic being that the Low Countries house a serious Avatar fandom, from what I've observed. I always see fanart from there, and the "Top Listeners" page on The Track Team's last.fm always has at least a few people from the region.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 30, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know a story I really want to see? An alternate reality story that shows what would have happened if Aang was killed during Sozin's Comet, the Avatar reincarnation cycle was broken, almost all of Team Avatar (at least Katara, Zuko, the White Lotus, and maybe Toph) was killed, and Ozai and Azula won the war for the Fire Nation, successfully taking over the world. I think it would be sick to see a new rebellion led by Sokka and Suki, sort of like John Conner and his wife, in a post-apocalyptic future. Maybe ten years or so. In that time, Sokka could have completed his sword training under Piandao, mastered archery under the Yu Yan, learned the chi-blocking technique somehow, and kicked butt as the new protagonist.



I agree with MunchKing that that would be too dark to Nickelodeon, but that would indeed make an awesome fanfiction, and an awesome story. If I had more free time, perhaps I could write such a story myself, but I currently am too busy with various other tasks that I have.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 30, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I used to be quite upset by the airing in Nederland, taken as the confluence of premiere's outside the US. Some argued against this, but I still find it inherently unfair when a show premieres outside it's native country. Where else does this happen? How many other examples of this even exist?
> 
> 
> That said, I've come around on the Dutch airing, for a number of reasons but the most pragmatic being that the Low Countries house a serious Avatar fandom, from what I've observed. I always see fanart from there, and the "Top Listeners" page on The Track Team's last.fm always has at least a few people from the region.



Nickelodeon did the same thing with Danny Phantom with airing new episodes in South America. The fandom was huge over there. The main difference was the time difference between domestic airings and airings of the spanish dubs. The US had to wait several weeks for their episodes after the dubs had aired.

But yeah the Dutch speaking fandom was treated very nicely by Nickelodeon. I remember the  Avatar Marathons in the build up to the airings of the 3rd season and the series finale. And sometimes just Avatar reruns back to back for the heck of it.

I was like


----------



## Jena (Jul 30, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You know a story I really want to see? An alternate reality story that shows what would have happened if Aang was killed during Sozin's Comet, the Avatar reincarnation cycle was broken, almost all of Team Avatar (at least Katara, Zuko, the White Lotus, and maybe Toph) was killed, and Ozai and Azula won the war for the Fire Nation, successfully taking over the world. I think it would be sick to see a new rebellion led by Sokka and Suki, sort of like John Conner and his wife, in a post-apocalyptic future. Maybe ten years or so. In that time, Sokka could have completed his sword training under Piandao, mastered archery under the Yu Yan, learned the chi-blocking technique somehow, and kicked butt as the new protagonist.


 Personally, I would've hated that. I'm a sucker for happy endings. I wanted Aang to defeat the firelord. I'm sure we all knew he would in the end, but...

The story would be interesting, though. I'll give you that. 



Ms. Jove said:


> Alright, the fandom aging is really frustrating me. 3-6 years ago, I could get anything I wanted on ebay for a sensible price. There wouldn't even be much competition. I got just about every SDCC giveaway from 2005-2008.
> 
> For instance: The hologram cards from 2007 everyone went nuts for? I got them for like 10 bucks the week after.
> 
> ...


NO U KNOW WHUT MAKES ME SEETHE WIT RAGE?

Ok, so Nickelodeon Universe, yeah? When it first opened up, Avatar was in its hay-day so they had a _ton_ of Avatar stuff everywhere to buy (and a guy in an Aang costume thankyouverymuch). They quickly realized, however, that fucking Spongebob and Dora are the only things the stupid little brat tourists like, so they stopped selling everything Avatar-related except for cups (that I already own every version of thankyouverymuch) and a poster book for the movie. With the upsurge of Korra stuff coming out of comic-con, I thought that, surely now there might be more stuff. So I crawled out of bed, crawled into the car, drove out to Nickelodeon Universe (which ain't exactly a short trip), got some ice cream, crawled to every store in that god-forsaken theme park, and *NYET* NOTHING ZILCH. The freakin' Nickelodeon store-mecca-epicenter has nothing Avatar-related. Oh, wait, sorry, they have a mug that I already own and a deck of playing cards. Surrounding by three walls of fucking Spongebob.
Fuck you Nickelodeon Universe. Fuck you very much. 
Also they don't have any Danny Phantom stuff. 

I did ride on the Avatar ride, but it's not the same thing.

Guess I'll have to stick to the internet, but by the sound of things that isn't much better.



Koi said:


> *ACCURATE*


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

I wouldn't want that to be the canonical ending, just a what if story. :rofl


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

I remember back in 2006-2007 when people were calling and mail ordering from the theme parks and NU. I believe this was the period when the Appa plushes sold out online, so that was the only way to get one.

I myself got the deck of cards, some keychains, the mini mug, and some other stuff.


----------



## Sparrow (Jul 30, 2011)

So I just acquired all three Avatar seasons and I'm about to begin watching them for the first time (lol late), but I do have a question.

I'm usually a big fan of badass normal characters that lack powers, but still manage to compete with and/or be a threat to powered individuals (in Avatars case, benders). Are there some badass normals in Avatar that can hang with the various benders or are the normal warriors completely outclassed?

I'm sure I'll enjoy it either way, but I'm just curious.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 30, 2011)

Sparrow said:


> Are there some badass normals in Avatar that can hang with the various benders or are the normal warriors completely outclassed?
> 
> I'm sure I'll enjoy it either way, but I'm just curious.


Oh, you have nothing to worry about here bro.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

Yeah the series definitely has them, but most of them can only handle minor or inconsequential characters like soldiers. That is, until you get to season two.


----------



## Wan (Jul 30, 2011)

Sparrow said:


> So I just acquired all three Avatar seasons and I'm about to begin watching them for the first time (lol late), but I do have a question.
> 
> I'm usually a big fan of badass normal characters that lack powers, but still manage to compete with and/or be a threat to powered individuals (in Avatars case, benders). Are there some badass normals in Avatar that can hang with the various benders or are the normal warriors completely outclassed?
> 
> I'm sure I'll enjoy it either way, but I'm just curious.



Yes there will be some, and enjoy the show!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Sparrow said:


> I'm usually a big fan of badass normal characters that lack powers, but still manage to compete with and/or be a threat to powered individuals (in Avatars case, benders). Are there some badass normals in Avatar that can hang with the various benders or are the normal warriors completely outclassed?
> 
> I'm sure I'll enjoy it either way, but I'm just curious.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

lolwut, they get curbstomped by anyone stronger than Mongke and his Rough Rhinos.


----------



## Coteaz (Jul 30, 2011)

Masked dynamite-throwing dude was always my favorite Rough Rider.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Stunna said:


> lolwut, they get curbstomped by anyone stronger than Mongke and his Rough Rhinos.



I edited them out because I upon further thought I considered it to be a spoiler.


But...


----------



## Time Expired (Jul 30, 2011)

​
              .


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

Do so, lol


*Spoiler*: __ 



Sokka is never shown to be able to capably fight, and defeat, anyone stronger than your basic Fire Nation mook without assistance, save for Combustion Man, which was luck. The strongest people the Kyoshi Warriors fought were Azula, Ty Lee, and Mai, and they lost.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

I didn't post Sokka, I posted Wang Fire. Wake up.

Even so, you're being myopic. Sokka defeated an entire goddamn Air Fleet.


The Kyoshi Warriors were posted an extension of Suki. No argument can be made against her without completely abdicating all dignity.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I didn't post Sokka, I posted Wang Fire. Wake up.


My mistake. lol



> Even so, you're being myopic. Sokka defeated an entire goddamn Air Fleet.


Cause he was in a goddamn air ship! 



> The Kyoshi Warriors were posted an extension of Suki. No argument can be made against her without completely abdicating all dignity.


Man, I love Suki as much as the next guy, but she was beaten by both Zuko and Azula without a drop of sweat from either.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Cause he was in a goddamn air ship!
> 
> 
> Man, I love Suki as much as the next guy, but she was beaten by both Zuko and Azula without a drop of sweat from either.




A. That doesn't refute anything. Of course he was in a goddamn air ship. Your myopia is strangling you.


B. Well, there goes your dignity. Citing fights we never even fully saw...


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm not myopic 

If he was on foot he wouldn't be able to do jack! 

And we know she lost cause she was imprisoned. 

You just made me use three emoticons. I _never_ use three emoticons. smh


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

You used one emoticon. Three times. 


I'm merely saying, those characters meet his criteria. Sokka was able to compete with his intellect. Suki was able to compete with her mobility. Hawky had to be written out of the show.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

>.>

<.<

>.<

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I just think Ty Lee and Mai would have been better examples.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 30, 2011)

For non-benders who can fight against benders:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Master Piandao
Ty Lee
Mai
Yuyan Archers
Jet
Suki (EOS)
Sokka (EOS)
Longshot (maybe)


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Stunna said:


> >.>
> 
> <.<
> 
> ...




Or Jet.

And I guess the ultimate would be Piandao.



Those choices are too sexy for me. I went with the sober.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

Jet probably wouldn't be the best. He only beat Aang because he refused to fight back, and he couldn't defeat Zuko, who too also refused to fight. At least seriously. I don't know, would Jet defeat EOS Sokka?


----------



## Koi (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm still holding on to my pet theory of TophxLongshot. 

Look at the Bei Fong Chief of Police.  She seems tall and thin with a slightly long face.  And hey, maybe she was the one who actually came up with the idea to bend those wires to get around the city.. due to her impeccable aim.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Koi said:


> I'm still holding on to my pet theory of TophxLongshot.
> 
> Look at the Bei Fong Chief of Police.  She seems tall and thin with a slightly long face.  And hey, maybe she was the one who actually came up with the idea to bend those wires to get around the city.. due to her impeccable aim.




Sokka was off-limits, so she had to find the next strongest jawline.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 30, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Jet probably wouldn't be the best. He only beat Aang because he refused to fight back, and he couldn't defeat Zuko, who too also refused to fight. At least seriously. I don't know, would Jet defeat EOS Sokka?



Jet is still pretty agile with his tiger-hook swords, keeping up with Aang in the trees, and Zuko is a top-tier swordsman holding his own with Airbending Aang against troops of FN soldiers and Firebenders in Blue Spirit. 

Jet tagging or not getting owned by either of them means he could defeat skilled fighters/benders with his A-game. 

I think Jet could stalemate with EOS Sokka if you dont consider that his space sword would slice right through the tiger-hooks.

Also, I think the Pirates and June can hold their own against benders.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

Yeah Jet could hold his own, but if Aang and Zuko had fought back with bending he would have been out like a light. He's by no means a weak fighter though, as you can't expect most people to combat with the two main characters.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 30, 2011)

True. Id say Zuko is actually a Master Firebender (EOS at least) and better than every other firebender who isnt given a name. He just looks to fall short since hes compared to Azula, Ozai, Iroh etc. 

Katarra, Zuko and Top are actually really broken when it comes to bending powers. They would be in the top 90-95% of their respective bending arts. If you can give them some sort of trouble, you would have to be pretty good yourself.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

What is this acronym EOS?


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> True. Id say Zuko is actually a Master Firebender (EOS at least) and better than every other firebender who isnt given a name.


I'd say he's at that level by the end of book one.



> He just looks to fall short since hes compared to Azula, Ozai, Iroh etc.


True. I was shocked to find that by the end of the series he hadn't surpassed any of these, but at the same time it seems appropriate. I don't like it when people are nerfed just to make someone else look good.



> Katara, Zuko and Toph are actually really broken when it comes to bending powers. They would be in the top 90-95% of their respective bending arts. If you can give them some sort of trouble, you would have to be pretty good yourself.


I don't think Katara deserved to be as skilled of a bender as she was by the end of the series. I mean, she became one of the world's best in the span of a few months.

EOS = End of Series


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

By my interpretation, Zuko had at the very least equaled Azula by the end.


But obviously he'll probably never reach the heights of Ozai or Iroh. At least not in orthodox terms.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

I don't think so. Both Iroh and Zuko conceded that Zuko had yet to match Azula's skill by the time Sozin's Comet arrived, and the only reason Zuko was capable getting the upper hand during their Agni Kai was because of her descent into insanity. I like to think he'll eventually become as strong as at least Iroh. Just my thoughts on the matter.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

I've always found that notion misguided. The signs were there that Zuko's power after his encounter with Ran and Shaw could match Azula's. He neutralized her bending without much effort above the Boiling Lake.

I don't think her insanity brought her down to his level, it simply gave Zuko the edge to win. If she was completely sane during the Agni Kai, I believe it would have been a stalemate. One that Zuko could have plausibly won.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

You know, that does make sense; but Zuko fought Azula at the Boiling Lake before he and Aang visited the Sun Warriors.

I know you know this, your phrasing just bugged me cause' it appears out of chronological order.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)

Firebending Masters was the episode before the Boiling Lake saga. 


I don't think either one of us are necessarily correct, anyway. In the end, the narrative switch is way cooler than either one of them prevailing. That's one of my favorite things about the series: for almost the entirety of the show, Azula is the stable one and Zuko is the one on the brink of collapse. But then it turns out Azula's stability was tenuous and Zuko's instability was superficial.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 30, 2011)

Wow, I feel like a freaking retard, I swear to God. 

I usually know what I'm talking about, honest!

You know, it's only now that I'm realizing how much of a piss fight Zhao was.


----------



## Koi (Jul 30, 2011)

Zuko WAS winning the Agni Kai, or so it seemed.  I feel like the only reason Azula was able to best him was because she played dirty.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 30, 2011)

Koi said:


> I'm still holding on to my pet theory of TophxLongshot.



It seemed to me that Longshot may have had romance with Smellerbee, so I am not certain if Toph and Longshot would be a feasible couple in the series.

As for Zuko, I definitely believed that he had finally become Azula's equal by the end of the series, and could likely reach Ozai's level of power with time and training, which is almost certainly how Ozai became as powerful as he was.



Koi said:


> Zuko WAS winning the Agni Kai, or so it seemed.  I feel like the only reason Azula was able to best him was because she played dirty.



Yes, I agree completely, and although it was good that Katara defeated Azula at the end, Katara's finishing move was rather "dirty," also, in my mind, although one could then argue, and I would agree, that Azula should have been more aware of her environment, and it was Azula's own fault that she was caught off-guard by Katara's water attack.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 30, 2011)




----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 31, 2011)

^ lol I wonder if Korra will have the same title card for the eps


----------



## Wan (Jul 31, 2011)

I wonder of the seasons will still called "Books" and if so what they'll be named after.


----------



## Darth (Jul 31, 2011)

Oman said:


> I wonder of the seasons will still called "Books" and if so what they'll be named after.



Books sounded appropriate for the series. The series is called "*The Legend* of Korra" so it would make sense.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jul 31, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I agree completely, and although it was good that Katara defeated Azula at the end, Katara's finishing move was rather "dirty," also, in my mind, although one could then argue, and I would agree, that Azula should have been more aware of her environment, and it was Azula's own fault that she was caught off-guard by Katara's water attack.


It wasn't dirty, she was just using her surroundings and some intelligence to defeat Azula. Besides, that's basically what Earthbenders and Waterbenders have to do...


----------



## Wan (Jul 31, 2011)

Well, if Superstarseven can bring up random criticisms, I will too!

I watched a guy do a video review of the whole series.  Overall, he enjoyed the series and thought it had really awesome moments.  What threw me for a loop is that he considers "The Storm" and "The Blue Spirit" pointless "filler" and even directly recommends skipping over them.  Now that's misguided enough, but what makes it more confusing is that he has nothing but praise for "Zuko Alone", although he still calls it "filler" for some reason.  Doesn't Zuko Alone functionally accomplish the exact same thing that "The Storm" did, expanding on a character's backstory?

Make no mistake though, he still loved the series.  The review can be found


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 31, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> ^ lol I wonder if Korra will have the same title card for the eps



Would fans think it awesome if Korra continues the cycle, and start off with

_Book 4: _
_*Air*_

_Chapter 1:__ 
*[insert ep name]*_​
Since people were wondering if there was or wished for a fourth season if just to complete the "book series"....? 


Also, people will say Azula's a bit crazy nature towards the end made her not as strong as she was at the end of Season 2. So Katarra and  Zuko were not fighting her at her most potent unfortunately...


----------



## Wan (Jul 31, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Would fans think it awesome if Korra continues the cycle, and start off with
> 
> _Book 4: _
> _*Air*_
> ...



Oh wow, this is...fridge brilliance!  Since Korra is learning _air_ from Tenzin it would make complete sense!


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 31, 2011)

That's why I hate the term filler. People either don't know when or how to use it correctly. Can you believe that I once saw a write-up that called _The Firebending Masters_ a filler episode? Here we get to Zuko finally beginning Firebending lessons with Aang, something that is vital for him to become a fully realized Avatar, and someone dismisses it as filler.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 31, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> That's why I hate the term filler. People either don't know when or how to use it correctly. Can you believe that I once saw a write-up that called _The Firebending Masters_ a filler episode? Here we get to Zuko finally beginning Firebending lessons with Aang, something that is vital for him to become a fully realized Avatar, and someone dismisses it as filler.



Not to mention it expands Firebending history, dragon history and Iroh's Dragon of the West history.

People dont even know that when an episode expands notable aspects of the avatar world/mythos/ history its still relevant.  

Thats why I smh when people say Puppetmaster is irrelevant...


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 31, 2011)

^ Cause it is


----------



## Jena (Jul 31, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> That's why I hate the term filler. People either don't know when or how to use it correctly. Can you believe that I once saw a write-up that called _The Firebending Masters_ a filler episode? Here we get to Zuko finally beginning Firebending lessons with Aang, something that is vital for him to become a fully realized Avatar, and someone dismisses it as filler.



Yeah...I always thought "filler" only applied to manga/anime. And that "filler" meant anything that appears in an anime that doesn't appear in the original manga.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 31, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> ^ Cause it is



Well...as you know, I disagree. 

If anything EIP is more "filler" than Puppetmaster.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> ^ Cause it is






Technically, filler could apply to any media that adapts a narrative from another medium. For example, a television show adapting a book.


But, as I will forever espouse, Avatar was an original story and thus it is impossible for any of the episodes to be considered true "filler." What are they filling out in an original work?

You could say the episode order, but they were aware of the number of episodes since the beginning. That did not affect the storytelling.


----------



## Wan (Jul 31, 2011)

The abomination masquerading under the title "The Last Airbender" just released on Netflix Instant.  I never bothered wasting my DVD queue on the movie, but I though maybe I'll give the movie another shake at no direct cost to me because it's online...nope.  Can't stand 10 minutes of it.  Maybe I'll use this opportunity to do a point-by-point criticism of the movie, though.  Of course I could never top bebopsamurai's comprehensive analysis.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

I've read through some of the latest posts and I have to ask, what does EOS mean? It doesn't seem as it refers to an episode title, and it might have to do with his sword, but I just don't get it.


----------



## Wan (Jul 31, 2011)

"End of series", usually referring to the level of skill a character had at the end.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 31, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well...as you know, I disagree.
> 
> If anything EIP is more "filler" than Puppetmaster.



EIP Doesn't pretend to be  any ting but

Where as PM Makes you think it will matter to the overall plot then ends up Disappointing you


It's like the Dark Ocean episode of Digimon


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 31, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> EIP Doesn't pretend to be  any ting but
> 
> Where as PM Makes you think it will matter to the overall plot then ends up Disappointing you.



I was completely satisfied by the end of PM and the Avatar series was better for it. Its the episodes later on that need to be judge as to whether they disappoint you as such - and thats their responsibility NOT PM.  

Thats like saying mentions of Iroh's Spirit World journey and Ursa's disappearance were filler because they never came full circle...as in you never learn the details in regards to those events.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

Thank you Oman.. Gosh this forum and it's abbreviations. It's hard to keep up. Seriously, I saw someone refer to the Sage of Six Paths as SO6P.. like wtf.. but anyway, that's off topic.

Why can't we just accept that these episodes that seem filler are for character development? Honestly, some of these episodes that seemed filler were very memorable and often funny, and an excellent way to develop the characters and give them a breath of fresh air for some time.

Nightmares and Daydreams was one of the funniest episodes because of the Momo and Appa scene. You have to remember that the show gains a lot of great ratings from its comic relief moments. It can't all be "lets be srs and fight the fiyah lord and destroy the fiyah nation!!!11" The group needed a breather, and if it counts for anything, that's what Nightmares and Daydreams was about.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 31, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> I was completely satisfied by the end of PM and the Avatar series was better for it. Its the episodes later on that need to be judge as to whether they disappoint you as such - and thats their responsibility NOT PM.
> 
> Thats like saying mentions of Iroh's Spirit World journey and Ursa's disappearance were filler because they never came full circle...as in you never learn the details in regards to those events.



those are presented as separate stories, were as the Shit in PM should of mattered more to our lead Female character

I wasn't expecting much, Katara Angsting a little next episode, questioning her anger in the southern raiders

any thing would of been nice


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 31, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> those are presented as separate stories, were as the Shit in PM should of mattered more to our lead Female character
> 
> I wasn't expecting much, Katara Angsting a little next episode, questioning her anger in the southern raiders
> 
> any thing would of been nice



Eh, Puppetmaster used it's 20min time effectively expanding the history/verse/swt benders and Katarra's psychology (and the added touch of humor throughout various bits). If you want more reference to said episode look at the future or next episode...

Nightmares and Daydreams, wouldn't that be where your problem is....?


----------



## Wan (Jul 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> Why can't we just accept that these episodes that seem filler are for character development? Honestly, some of these episodes that seemed filler were very memorable and often funny, and an excellent way to develop the characters and give them a breath of fresh air for some time.
> 
> Nightmares and Daydreams was one of the funniest episodes because of the Momo and Appa scene. You have to remember that the show gains a lot of great ratings from its comic relief moments. It can't all be "lets be srs and fight the fiyah lord and destroy the fiyah nation!!!11" The group needed a breather, and if it counts for anything, that's what Nightmares and Daydreams was about.



Amen!  _Not everything has to serve the plot._  As long as the plot is there and done well, writers can use episodes to explore characters and the world of Avatar in general.  For example, "The Runaway" is generally considered rather "filler"-ish and not very good because it didn't progress the plot.  I, however, enjoyed it.  It provided Toph some much-needed character development, showing her vulnerability and that she still cares for her parents.  As awesome as Toph was, she had very few moments like that on the show, and the moment in "The Runaway" was welcome.  It also had some nice characterization for Sokka and Katara -- for once, _Sokka_ got to talk about how the loss of their mother affected him.



Zen-aku said:


> those are presented as separate stories, were as the Shit in PM should of mattered more to our lead Female character
> 
> I wasn't expecting much, Katara Angsting a little next episode, questioning her anger in the southern raiders
> 
> any thing would of been nice



It did.  Katara bloodbended the leader of the Souther Raiders, but it was the wrong person.  She didn't express anything after that -- in words.  But simply the look in her eyes when she realized "It's not him" and released him showed that she realized what she was doing was wrong.  Nothing more needed to be said, as we already know that in her right mind she loathes bloodbending.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

How can you say that "The Puppetmaster" didn't matter to the plot? Katara is part of the main plot, isn't she? Her anger and mistrust was prevalent in Book 3. She needed to get over that and the events in "The Puppetmaster" and "The Southern Raiders" led up to her conquering that anger, which all led to the success of the final mission. They're stepping stones, not filler episodes.

Even Tales of Ba Sing Se, where there are different stories that seem irrelevant touch upon the main characters and their feelings. Hell, Tales of Ba Sing Se actually had the biggest group of writers than any other episode.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

Also, you can parallel Katara's actions in "The Southern Raiders" to Aang's tasks at the end of the series. Aang hesitated killing the Fire Lord, and one of his biggest problems was that he couldn't accept killing him. Same for Katara, coming in from a different direction. She wanted revenge and was ready to kill the man who murdered her mother, but decided that killing wasn't the answer. And don't get me started on how Zuko fits into all this.

Filler episode my ass. Attempt to say that another episode is filler and I will do my best to disprove it.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 31, 2011)

I thought it was very interesting to see the Southern Water Tribe in it's prime before it became a casualty of the war. It wasn't as majestic at the NWT but it certainly wasn't small as humble when we first saw it in the first 2 episodes.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 31, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I thought it was very interesting to see the Southern Water Tribe in it's prime before it became a casualty of the war. It wasn't as majestic at the NWT but it certainly wasn't small as humble when we first saw it in the first 2 episodes.



Exactly, seeing Katarra's grandma in her youth, her ties with Hama and actually seeing groups of SWT benders fighting FN forces was a sight to see!

It would be a tragedy if they had removed all that from the series and leave SWT waterbenders to nothing more then stories Katarra would cling on to and share with Aang (which it was till PM changed all that with the flashbacks and Hama)...


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

I totally agree. We needed as few unanswered questions in the series as possible. Though I really still wish that we could learn more about Zuko's mother.. Maybe this spinoff will teach us something.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jul 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> I totally agree. We needed as few unanswered questions in the series as possible. Though I really still wish that we could learn more about Zuko's mother.. Maybe this spinoff will teach us something.



Was there mention of Zuko's relative/descendants in the new series? They could always mention stories of the Fire Lord during the time of peace and his family. Perhaps his reunion with his long exiled/hiding mother...


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh youth.



> I wish it wasn't on Nickelodeon. I LOVED ATLA as a kid but now that I'm 17, I'd probably enjoy this a lot more if it had more violence and bad language. Two things I shouldn't expect if it's on Nickelodeon. Oh well, I'll be watching it either way.



To be young and dumb again.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> I totally agree. We needed as few unanswered questions in the series as possible. Though I really still wish that we could learn more about Zuko's mother.. Maybe this spinoff will teach us something.



I'm hoping that gets covered in a flash back episode.



Superstarseven said:


> Oh youth.
> 
> 
> 
> To be young and dumb again.



Bad language and senseless stupid violence=mature story.

Fact.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 31, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Exactly, seeing Katarra's grandma in her youth, her ties with Hama and actually seeing groups of SWT benders fighting FN forces was a sight to see!
> 
> It would be a tragedy if they had removed all that from the series and leave SWT waterbenders to nothing more then stories Katarra would cling on to and share with Aang (which it was till PM changed all that with the flashbacks and Hama)...



I remember watching that episode. Hama scared the crap out of me. You knew something was off about that woman, but you couldn't put your finger on it. The chilling background music, the moment Hama revealed her talent at bloodbending, the people locked up in the dungeon and the realization that she has been doing this for years.

Brrr...

In my opinion there was only one episode they could have cut out and nothing would have changed. The Great Divide.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh yeah the great divide is easily one of the most dull episodes of the series.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 31, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> In my opinion there was only one episode they could have cut out and nothing would have changed. The Great Divide.



So I suppose you felt validated when it was essentially cut out of the performance that the Ember Island Players put on.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 31, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> So I suppose you felt validated when it was essentially cut out of the performance that the Ember Island Players put on.



That was hilarious. The entire play cracked me up. Other highlights were the actor for Toph and the way the Jet character died.


----------



## Platinum (Jul 31, 2011)

Ember Island Players was one of my favorite episodes.

More shows should do their recap eps like that.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 31, 2011)

I just noticed something on a screenshot from the trailer. The shot of the city park.

Big picture.



Are that Korra and Naga, chillin' relaxin' all cool?

That thing that looks like a rock seems to be Naga with her riding gear on.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 31, 2011)

Anyone calling 'The Puppetmaster' filler or inconsequential has zero idea what he's talking about. Zero.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 31, 2011)

platinum you homo, you shouldn't be allowed to like avatar


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 31, 2011)

> What threw me for a loop is that he considers "The Storm" and "The Blue Spirit" pointless "filler" and even directly recommends skipping over them.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

Although not many cartoons follow a storyline, for those that do, I think that Avatar had the funniest recap episode amongst them. Tear bending just made me roll on the floor so hard.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 31, 2011)

Does anyone think that we'll ever see a firebender with more powerful bending than Azula? I say Azula and not Ozai because the former has blue fire, which is hotter than red fire (though not to say that Azula was better than Ozai, as there's more to a bender than just power. See Zhao.)


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2011)

Well, even with the blue fire, Azula was weaker in power than Ozai. She was inferior to him in every way. The blue flame was cosmetic.


I doubt we'll see blue flames again, I can definitely say that.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

I think it'll take away from Azula's character to duplicate the flame's color.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 31, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Eh, Puppetmaster used it's 20min time effectively expanding the history/verse/swt benders


 Not to the point that it was worth it the only real new tidbit we learned was that the FN didn't Just kill the Water Benders out right



> and Katarra's psychology


 Except there is no Real Follow Through



> If you want more reference to said episode look at the future or next episode...
> 
> Nightmares and Daydreams, wouldn't that be where your problem is....?


 I do not believe the Writers were making this up as they went along so i am looking at the  whole of book three,  my critisism" is that Book three has to much filer and episodes that don't amount to anything



Oman said:


> It did.  Katara bloodbended the leader of the Souther Raiders, but it was the wrong person.  She didn't express anything after that -- in words.  But simply the look in her eyes when she realized "It's not him" and released him showed that she realized what she was doing was wrong.


 Except that is is more or less guess work and  Katara was  Still on a rampage after that, if she Really Regretted her actions they should of shown her ...you know Regretting

What really gets me about the "filler" episodes in book three is the Writers  obviously know they are strapped for time [so to speak] after they have Zuko join the group, they lampshade it even

Try and tell me the Runaway and The Painted lady couldn't have worked better in the second half of the Season


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2011)

From this point, I'm crossing out any use of the word filler non-ironically. 


What sense would Painted Lady and The Runaway make after Day of Black Sun? They would have been _completely_ inconsequential at that point, and a jarring sea change. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but the balance of Book 3 was deliberate, and I wouldn't sacrifice the exquisiteness of latter half to give more relevance to the former half.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 31, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> From this point, I'm crossing out any use of the word filler non-ironically.
> 
> 
> What sense would Painted Lady and The Runaway make after Day of Black Sun? They would have been _completely_ inconsequential at that point, and a jarring sea change. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but the balance of Book 3 was deliberate, and I wouldn't sacrifice the exquisiteness of latter half to give more relevance to the former half.



Delibratly bad?

Like i liked Book 3 the good episodes are all phenomenal, but poor pacing holds it back from surpassing book 2


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Delibratly bad?
> 
> Like i liked Book 3 the good episodes are all phenomenal, but poor pacing holds it back from surpassing book 2




You could say misguided. To call it "bad" is preposterous and callow.

They could have been much more precise, conceptually, with the first half, obviously. It wouldn't have taken much; if their premise was to casually display the Fire Nation itself in the weeks leading up to DoBS, they could have presented that more explicitly.

They are still commendable episodes. They have higher degrees of _inconsequence_, but not entirely, due to the characterization and presentation of ideas that exhibit themselves in later episodes.


The latter half of Book 3 was excellent. It had a focus that the former half was deficient in at times.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 31, 2011)

I could have done without _The Painted Lady_, but I think all the other season 3 episodes have at least one redeeming aspect. Even _The Runaway_, which I wasn't a big fan of, had a nice scene between Sokka and Toph, with Katara listening in. _The Headband_, which felt like one of the weaker episodes of the season, also gave us some insight into the schooling of the Fire Nation and gave the 'enemies' more of a personalised, human depiction. It also features Aang indulging in the extraverted fun that was mainly denied to him after he was announced as the Avatar...almost like trying to relive his childhood and ignore the task he never wanted in the first place. 

As for _The Puppetmaster_, I think that was an important and interesting episode in regard to Katara and the fact that it shows us a morally dubious Waterbender who goes against the stereotype of Water being the healing, defensive, passive element. It would be far easier to criticise _Nightmares and Daydreams_. (Although  was great fun.)


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2011)

And, also:






Pabu. 






The fandom went right into mid-season form.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 31, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> Try and tell me the Runaway and The Painted lady couldn't have worked better in the second half of the Season



Runaway and Painted Lady couldn't have worked better in the second half of the Season.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

I cannot wait to see him


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Runaway and Painted Lady couldn't have worked better in the second half of the Season.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 31, 2011)




----------



## Bender (Jul 31, 2011)

Hopefully, we see a character like "The Blue Spirit" in Avatar Legend of Korra except it isn't one of the main characters alter ego like it was for Zuko. I want a cool anti-hero type of dude who's all like "I work alone" type.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> I cannot wait to see him



Why does he remind me of Edward from Twilight? 

























































*Spoiler*: __ 



Bolin fo life..


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jul 31, 2011)

Never seen some of those pieces


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

How dare you compare him to that


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> How dare you compare him to that



It's the hair.


----------



## MunchKing (Jul 31, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I could have done without _The Painted Lady_, but I think all the other season 3 episodes have at least one redeeming aspect. Even _The Runaway_, which I wasn't a big fan of, had a nice scene between Sokka and Toph, with Katara listening in. _The Headband_, which felt like one of the weaker episodes of the season, ...



Slander! That was the episode that gave us WANG FIRE, PARAGON OF MANLINESS.



Dream Brother said:


> ... also gave us some insight into the schooling of the Fire Nation and gave the 'enemies' more of a personalised, human depiction. It also features Aang indulging in the extraverted fun that was mainly denied to him after he was announced as the Avatar...almost like trying to relive his childhood and ignore the task he never wanted in the first place.



The dance and the fight on the school yard were a lot of fun. 



Dream Brother said:


> It would be far easier to criticise _Nightmares and Daydreams_. (Although  was great fun.)



Baby, you're my forever girl. 

/suave



Ciupy said:


> Why does he remind me of Edward from Twilight?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Makes me wonder if he can sparkle in the sunlight.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

Don't even with that twilight bullshit.

Also, does anyone else have like 3 or 4 friends named Tenzin? I found it extremely funny that they named Aang's son Tenzin.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> Don't even with that twilight bullshit.
> 
> Also, does anyone else have like 3 or 4 friends named Tenzin? I found it extremely funny that they named Aang's son Tenzin.



Okay,how about the fact that Mako's voice actor is the guy who also played Bud.

As in Bud Bundy..




How cute,they even have the same hair!


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm okay with that 

Married... with children was hilarious.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 31, 2011)

While we are discussing the subject of "filler," I would like to say that while I find _The Beach_ to be an entertaining, informative, and important episode in terms of character development, I agree that it was too quick about providing information about Mai and Ty Lee's pasts and characters. I would like to have had more screen time and a more detailed explanation of their backstories, and how they came to be the people they were in the present storyline. Of course, there were not nearly as major characters as were Zuko and Azula, so perhaps the story writers believed that they did not need detailed back stories.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> I'm okay with that
> 
> Married... with children was hilarious.



Fuck yeah.

But I just can't imagine David Faustino actually doing a brooding guy.

I admit I am really curious about how Mako will sound.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 31, 2011)

It's OK, you've tied him with a show that you grew up loving.
David doesn't possess a great vocal range but when you hear him as Mako, it won't be as easily recognizable as say the first time you heard Katey Sagal voice Leela for example. I'll link you to his Commercial voice demo 
Listen here
This way you can separate the voice from the face and get an idea for how Mako will sound.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 31, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> It's OK, you've tied him with a show that you grew up loving.
> David doesn't possess a great vocal range but when you hear him as Mako, it won't be as easily recognizable as say the first time you heard Katey Sagal voice Leela for example. I'll link you to his Commercial voice demo
> Listen here
> This way you can separate the voice from the face and get an idea for how Mako will sound.



Hmm,he actually sounds a little too young to play Mako.

I mean..I expected an older,more deep voice for him.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

He sounds fine to me. Can't wait for him and his brother.


----------



## Burke (Jul 31, 2011)

Anf of course, bolin has the voice you would expect from a stocky, goofy guy, but im ok with this.


----------



## Ciupy (Jul 31, 2011)

N??ps said:


> Anf of course, bolin has the voice you would expect from a stocky, goofy guy, but im ok with this.



I truly hope Bolin will be much more than just the goofy comic relief..


----------



## Burke (Jul 31, 2011)

hes also a badass earthbender, i mean just look at that poster


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

If he's anything like Sokka was then it will be awesome.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm sure in 2004 you could have looked at Zuko and wondered how Dante Basco's voice would match that design.


----------



## Burke (Jul 31, 2011)

oh god, dont mention TBA
(time before avatar)


----------



## Superstarseven (Jul 31, 2011)

PJ Byrne is voicing Bolin, right? 
I enjoy the read that he's given to the Papa Murphy's copy right at the beginning of his commercial demo. Perhaps Bolin will be given that type of personality? 
Listen Here.
Just a tad bit of a vocal similarity to Jack DeSena.


----------



## Friday (Jul 31, 2011)

N??ps said:


> oh god, dont mention TBA
> (time before avatar)



TBA? Really? No, just no.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 31, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]ZUd2mi5at5U[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Glued (Jul 31, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]fR7nEtA-p1Q[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 31, 2011)

The Iroh and Zuko relationship might be my favourite part of the whole series...so unexpected, and so damned good. In terms of music videos, I've always been surprised that no one has made one for them using the Cat Stevens _Father and Son_ song.


----------



## Glued (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh yeah check out what I found on Deviantart. Inside joke being that JK Simmons will be the voice of Tenzin


----------



## Glued (Jul 31, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> The Iroh and Zuko relationship might be my favourite part of the whole series...so unexpected, and so damned good. In terms of music videos, I've always been surprised that no one has made one for them using the Cat Stevens _Father and Son_ song.



Cat Stevens, I should listen to that.

Oh yeah, check this out, not a huge fan of pop music, but this seems alright

[YOUTUBE]Fud3HnSWL3M[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Jena (Jul 31, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> [YOUTUBE]ZUd2mi5at5U[/YOUTUBE]


I love that person's videos. 


*Spoiler*: _Kataang_


----------



## Wan (Jul 31, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh yeah check out what I found on Deviantart. Inside joke being that JK Simmons will be the voice of Tenzin



Alright, I've been thinking.  When destiny gives you lime-lemons, don't make lime-lemonade.  Make destiny take the lime-lemons BACK!  Get mad!  I don't want your damn lime-lemons!  What am I supposed to do with these?  Demand to see destiny's sifu!  Make destiny rue the day it thought it could give Tenzin lime-lemons!  Do you know who I am?  I'm the airbender who's going to blow your house down!  With the lime-lemons!  I'm going to get my kids to make a lime-lemon fan that blows your house down!


----------



## Quaero (Jul 31, 2011)

Actually, the cross-thing only goes for animals, not vegetables, still, that was spot on.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> TBA? Really? No, just no.



That's what I was going to say lol


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jul 31, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Well, even with the blue fire, Azula was weaker in power than Ozai. She was inferior to him in every way. The blue flame was cosmetic.



I believe that Azula definitely had the potential to surpass Ozai, as did Gohan to Goku in _Dragon Ball,_ but I highly doubt that we shall ever see her achieve that potential, unfortunately. 



Ben Grimm said:


> Oh yeah check out what I found on Deviantart. Inside joke being that JK Simmons will be the voice of Tenzin



That image is so awesome, Ben Grimm; thank you for sharing it with us.


----------



## Zen-aku (Jul 31, 2011)

whats the best fight in the series?


----------



## Jena (Jul 31, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> whats the best fight in the series?



I liked the fight between Zuko and Azula at the end of the series. 

I'm not sure if that's my _favorite_, though.


----------



## Stunna (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't know about the best, but two of my favorites off the top of my head are the fights between Zuko and Zhao in _The Southern Air Temple_, and Aang versus Jet in _Jet_.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 31, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> whats the best fight in the series?


 Dataset too large.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Jul 31, 2011)

^ As much as I loved Toph's curbstoming the Earth Rumble guys, I loved the one in the Drill episode where Aang and Azula fought.


----------



## Wan (Aug 1, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Dataset too large.



Quoted for absolute truth.  So much awesome is hard to stick out of...


----------



## Zen-aku (Aug 1, 2011)

No Love for the "Gaang" Emasculating the entire Earth Kingdom army in "The Earth King"?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

I assumed you meant one on one fights.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 1, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> whats the best fight in the series?



Honestly? Any Toph fight.

But I think the best in the series is when when Toph and Aang (and the rest, but I'm mostly talking about the T & A scenes) are Earthbending the king's men away easily. That's actually one of my favorite episodes because of the bending and scenes...and the "Sorry!"s


----------



## Platinum (Aug 1, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> whats the best fight in the series?



The mexican standoff between zuko aang and azula was pretty awesome.

That and the Zuko and Azula vs Aang and Katara fights are probably my favorites.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Aug 1, 2011)

I think my favorite fight would be the aang vs Zuko fights in season 1 or when Katara fought pakku


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 1, 2011)

My Top 10 (Excluding The Finale):


1. Azula and Zuko v. Aang and Katara (_Crossroads of Destiny_)

2. Aang v. Azula. v. Zuko (_The Chase_)

3. Azula v Aang (_The Drill_)

4. Zuko v Jet (_City of Walls and Secrets_)

5. Aang, Katara, Sokka, Jet, Longshot, and Smellerbee v. Long Feng & The Dai Li (_Lake Laogai_

6. Aang & The Blue Spirit v. The Fire Nation's Pohuai Stronghold Soldiers.

7. Zuko v. The Earth Kingdom "Soldiers" (_Zuko Alone_)

8. Sokka v. Piandao (_Sokka's Master_)

9. Sokka & Zuko v. Azula, Suki v. Ty Lee (_The Boiling Rock_)

10. Aang v. Zuko (_Bato of the Water Tribe_)



And this is leaving off Appa. v Boarcupine.


----------



## Burke (Aug 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> That's what I was going to say lol



Lol, i did that in part because someone said they hated all the acronyms 



Ms. Jove said:


> My Top 10 (Excluding The Finale):
> 
> 
> 1. Azula and Zuko v. Aang and Katara (_Crossroads of Destiny_)
> ...



You forgot Appa v. Momo


----------



## Friday (Aug 1, 2011)

Appa vs Momo


----------



## Darth (Aug 1, 2011)

^ You guys beat me to it.


----------



## Makyuusen (Aug 1, 2011)

How do people think ty lee and mai would fair against zuko without firebening and just his swords. Also was it ever shown what that tornado was in The Swamp episode that brought the group down from the sky.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

I think Zuko would hold his own for a little bit, but Ty Lee is too fast for him to handle with just swords. And it was left ambiguous who summoned the tornado, but it's heavily implied that the swamp is magic.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 1, 2011)

Has Ty Lee versed an armed warrior on the level of Zuko though?

I think Zuko has the edge with his swords since even Ozai didnt dare challenge him when he had no Firebending.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

Ozai _did_ challenge Zuko. He called him a coward for trying to leave during the eclipse, stalling or not; and it's not like Zuko's invincible or anything with them. The leader of the corrupt earthbening soldiers in _Zuko Alone_ was having a field day with him before he fell back on his firebending.


----------



## God (Aug 1, 2011)

Mai is whack, Ty Lee would be a problem though.

Fav fights:

1. Aang vs Ozai
2. Azula vs Katara/Zuko


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

Mai isn't whack, but her kunai and what not wouldn't be able to overcome Zuko's swords.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 1, 2011)

Kunai? At 15-16, she was definitely an expert with those stilettos. Just because Avatar was a TV-Y7 rated show, I didn't doubt for a second that she could cause some serious damage.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Ozai _did_ challenge Zuko. He called him a coward for trying to leave during the eclipse, stalling or not; and it's not like Zuko's invincible or anything with them. The leader of the corrupt earthbening soldiers in _Zuko Alone_ was having a field day with him before he fell back on his firebending.



He stalled while Zuko had his swords. If he had not have them he wouldnt even have let Zuko say half of what he did. He tried to keep Zuko to stay longer becuase only with his firebending could he beat Zuko with his swords.  

Zuko was getting pressed by an Earthbender using mauls to earthbend large boulders at him. 

All forms of bending aside, Zuko is one of the more deadlier fighters probably superior to Mai, and Ty Lee as well. Suki could hold her own against Ty Lee with her new unarmed style, Zuko's swordmanship would be a lot of trouble for Ty Lee imo.


----------



## God (Aug 1, 2011)

Mai had never been a good fighter


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 1, 2011)

I watched the show, I beg to disagree.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 1, 2011)

Cubey said:


> Mai had never been a good fighter



I disagree with that statement, but it is true that Mai and Ty Lee never had a serious one-on-one fight during the series, in which they could demonstrate the full extent of their abilities. It is unfortunate, but apparently the writers believed that they did not need to have their own fights.

My own favorite fight was definitely the final fight between Zuko and Azula and the end of the series, as it was the culmination of the rivalry that had existed between the siblings for years and Zuko finally proved that he was as skilled a firebender as Azula was. I really enjoyed the drama and tension of that fight, and I do hope that there is a fight of that magnitude in _The Legend of Korra._


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 1, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> My own favorite fight was definitely the final fight between Zuko and Azula and the end of the series, as it was the culmination of the rivalry that had existed between the siblings for years and Zuko finally proved that he was as skilled a firebender as Azula was. I really enjoyed the drama and tension of that fight, and I do hope that there is a fight of that magnitude in _The Legend of Korra._



That's also my favorite one.

And the background music that was playing before Azula tried to strike Katara was amazing. It went so well with the sound of the Firebending and made the fight more epic than it already was.

I love the music The Track Team makes.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 1, 2011)

I wanted to see a Toph vs King Bumi fight.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

I have a feeling that Bumi would win that easily.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 1, 2011)

Kirito said:


> I wanted to see a Toph vs King Bumi fight.



You can see it here: 


Also, Ty Lee would get limbs hacked off if she fought a broadsword-armed Zuko.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

That fight was mad lame. I knew they were gonna pull some BS and make it a tie.


----------



## Klue (Aug 1, 2011)

Anyone know where I can find the Avatar Comic Book? 

Avatar: The Last Airbender—The Lost Adventure!!

*Edit*: Oh snap!


----------



## Burke (Aug 1, 2011)

Klue said:


> Anyone know where I can find the Avatar Comic Book?
> 
> Avatar: The Last Airbender?The Lost Adventure!!
> 
> *Edit*: Oh snap!


glad i could help


----------



## Klue (Aug 1, 2011)

N??ps said:


> glad i could help



I saw Ms. Jove's post. 

Do you know where I can find more pics?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> That fight was mad lame. I knew they were gonna pull some BS and make it a tie.



Perhaps the story writers believed that it would be anti-climactic to have a clear winner between Bumi and Toph, that it would be better to leave the question of who the world's greatest earthbender was an ambiguous one?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

Then they shouldn't have addressed the question if you ask me.


----------



## Wan (Aug 1, 2011)

Klue said:


> Anyone know where I can find the Avatar Comic Book?
> 
> Avatar: The Last Airbender?The Lost Adventure!!
> 
> *Edit*: Oh snap!



You can find it in the graphic novel & manga section of any retail bookstore.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 1, 2011)

It's a delicate issue. Obviously, the greatest non-Avatar Earthbender in the World at the conclusion of the show was Bumi. But Toph was guaranteed to surpass him, possibly within the next few years. So a stalemate isn't _that_ egregious. 

It's fanservice, anyway.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

Sure, but a tie is almost always a cop-out conclusion regardless. They should have had Bumi defeat Toph as a lesson in humility and a catalyst to encourage self-improvement.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 1, 2011)

Bumi vs. Toph? I would've loved to see that too. Though, Toph got better on her own, without Bumi's help.


----------



## Burke (Aug 1, 2011)

Damn it jove, change your name, people will think youre a trap


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 1, 2011)

I had no idea about _Avatar_ back when it was actually airing, so it's awesome to watch stuff like this and see the sheer hysteria of the fans:


----------



## Burke (Aug 1, 2011)

I dont know whether to consider you lucky, because you never had to deal with a hiatus, or pity you becasue you never got to participate :<


----------



## Darth (Aug 1, 2011)

I remember watching the first episode of Avatar: The Last Airbender when it was being aired on Nickleodeon. 

And my awe.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

I remember that as well. Good times. Good times.


----------



## Jena (Aug 1, 2011)

N??ps said:


> I dont know whether to consider you lucky, because you never had to deal with a hiatus, or pity you becasue you never got to participate :<



Probably luck, because waiting for the new episodes to come out was a bitch.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Sure, but a tie is almost always a cop-out conclusion regardless. They should have had Bumi defeat Toph as a lesson in humility and a catalyst to encourage self-improvement.



It was a silly one-off, and, as you will find out when Terra comes in here and reads this, Toph fangirls and fucking insane and would flip out if she lost to anyone ever.




Dream Brother said:


> I had no idea about _Avatar_ back when it was actually airing, so it's awesome to watch stuff like this and see the sheer hysteria of the fans:


----------



## StrawHatCrew (Aug 1, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I had no idea about _Avatar_ back when it was actually airing, so it's awesome to watch stuff like this and see the sheer hysteria of the fans:


----------



## BlazingCobaltX (Aug 1, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I had no idea about _Avatar_ back when it was actually airing, so it's awesome to watch stuff like this and see the sheer hysteria of the fans:


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 1, 2011)

Off the top of my head, the people who truly agonized waiting between seasons would probably be fans of The Venture Brothers. 4 seasons have aired since it's premiere in 2004. That's torture.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 1, 2011)

For those that weren't around, they were even gloating afterwards.

I can't find the video, but someone caught up with noted Zutarian lunatic Greenifyme after the trailer and she was as smug as fuck. It's hilarious.


----------



## Wan (Aug 1, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I had no idea about _Avatar_ back when it was actually airing, so it's awesome to watch stuff like this and see the sheer hysteria of the fans:


----------



## Koi (Aug 1, 2011)

Was she really?  Rolling my eyes pretty hard right now.


----------



## Jena (Aug 1, 2011)

Darth said:


> I remember watching the first episode of Avatar: The Last Airbender when it was being aired on Nickleodeon.
> 
> And my awe.



I didn't start watching until the end of book 1 (I caught up with the show online).

My friend's sister was _obsessed_ with it. My friend and I would get pissed at her because we'd want to use the computer to watch Naruto () and she'd hog it. One day, she forced us to sit there and actually watch the show. My mind was blown and the rest is history. 
 

Out of curiosity, did you guys watch the show online or on Nick? I didn't have cable, so I watched most of the show online. Sometimes I'd watch it at a friend's house, though. I watched all the season finales on TV and the premier of book 2 and book 3. And then random episodes here and there on TV.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 1, 2011)

Oman said:


> The funny thing about that trailer is that while none of the episodes after The Day of Black Sun had aired in the US at the time, Western Air Temple and The Firebending Masters had aired in Canada...and both they and The Boiling Rock were already released _on DVD_ worldwide.  So the fans had already seen half that stuff before airing.  Silly Nickelodeon



Boiling Rock hadn't been released yet. NYCC was a couple months before that Volume came out.


I remember people were _very_ upset at the end because the Q&A session only had enough time for two questions. The reason for that was because they had technical issues with the projectors (I believe), and so that ate into the panel's hour. I think it cut 15 whole minutes out of it.


The Nickelodeon Executive's brilliant observation?

"You Avatar fans are used to waiting, right?"


Needless to say, I was much more impressed with Roland Poindexter at the Korra panel. He seemed like someone who was genuinely excited about the show, the show's universe, and the fandom.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 1, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> For those that weren't around, they were even gloating afterwards.
> 
> I can't find the video, but someone caught up with noted Zutarian lunatic Greenifyme after the trailer and she was as smug as fuck. It's hilarious.



 Seriously?  I'd pay real money to see the video.  

...alright - a buck or two anyway.


----------



## Wan (Aug 1, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Boiling Rock hadn't been released yet. NYCC was a couple months before that Volume came out.



Oh, ok.  But still.  Most, if not all, the fans at NYCC had probably already seen recordings of The Western Air Temple and The Firebending Masters by then.  And the DVD was still released before they or The Boiling Rock aired in the US.

But the trailer made up for that by master trolling the shippers. 



> Needless to say, I was much more impressed with Roland Poindexter at the Korra panel. He seemed like someone who was genuinely excited about the show, the show's universe, and the fandom.



Yeah, he did seem genuine.  Though I did roll my eyes when he thanked the crowd for being general Nickelodeon fans and naming shows like Fanboy and Chum-Chum and iCarly -- shows which most Avatar fans are more likely to hate or at least not care about.  But he did seem to respect the show's creators and was excited about where the show is going.

What I found interesting was that Bryan & Mike weren't trying to convince Nickelodeon to make a new show.  According to Roland and echoed by Bryke, the fans' demand for a continuation of the world of Avatar made _Nickelodeon_ approach Mike & Bryan and ask if they could do a something new in the world of Avatar.  I think we can all agree it seems like that was a marvelous decision.  

And VERY thankfully, that cinematic fiasco that shall not be named doesn't seem to have had any effect on the production of Korra other than the title.  The Nickelodeon executives seem to be able to separate the success of the cartoon series from the failure of the movie, and rightfully so.


----------



## Friday (Aug 1, 2011)

Wow I remember seeing that too.. back in the long wait between book 2 and 3, and then seeing the episodes online. Gosh.. seeing those people get excited made me excited.. Definitely gonna rewatch book 3 soon.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 1, 2011)

Oman said:


> Oh, ok.  But still.  Most, if not all, the fans at NYCC had probably already seen recordings of The Western Air Temple and The Firebending Masters by then.  And the DVD was still released before they or The Boiling Rock aired in the US.
> 
> But the trailer made up for that by master trolling the shippers.




Definitely. They knew exactly what they were doing. 


Of course, Zutarians lambasted them afterwards for this "cruelty."


I'm sure Makorrans will lambaste them for designing to hot characters and showing them off at SDCC, tricking them into shipping them, and then not putting them together.


And on that note, Makorra is not a proper shipping name and I can't believe these kids adopted it so quickly. Unless the names are monosyllabic, you can't have a shipping name with the entirety of one character's name.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 1, 2011)

The hiatus was so long that I assumed the show was cancelled. You can imagine my surprise when I was channel surfing one day and I saw Team Avatar dressed like Fire Nation civilians.


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 1, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> For those that weren't around, they were even gloating afterwards.
> 
> I can't find the video, but someone caught up with noted Zutarian lunatic Greenifyme after the trailer and she was as smug as fuck. It's hilarious.



Someone needs to find this video...


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 1, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I had no idea about _Avatar_ back when it was actually airing, so it's awesome to watch stuff like this and see the sheer hysteria of the fans:


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 1, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> And on that note, Makorra is not a proper shipping name and I can't believe these kids adopted it so quickly. Unless the names are monosyllabic, you can't have a shipping name with the entirety of one character's name.



Why must a pairing have a portmanteau for its name? I see this trend in nearly every fandom that I have seen, and it can be very annoying at times, at least to me. Is it also not too early to be forming ay pairings between the characters from the new series, as it has not even premiered yet, and so little is know about their personalities?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2011)

The portmanteau names are fun. I love that the Avatar fandom is so rabid that we're already immersing ourselves in the intricacies and language-games of it all.

I just don't like Makorra.


----------



## Koi (Aug 2, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> And on that note, Makorra is not a proper shipping name and I can't believe these kids adopted it so quickly. Unless the names are monosyllabic, you can't have a shipping name with the entirety of one character's name.


What about Kataang? 

Honestly I hope there's just shipbait left and right and then no pairing happens.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh dammit, I forgot about that. Kataang isn't even like portmanteau anymore. It's like some word that's existed since prehistory, waiting to be realized. 


Oh, but Aang is one syllable, so it would have to be that way.


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 2, 2011)

Koi said:


> What about Kataang?
> 
> Honestly I hope there's just shipbait left and right and then no pairing happens.



She said except for monosyllabic names.

D:

Oh, and I finally got a chance to watch the whole panel.

Just being there seems like it would be so amazing.

I need to go to at least once in my life.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh, to clarify:

Ms. Jove is a bit of a joke at my expense. One of the admins, I won't say who, changed it on me. I am definitely a guy, frail and pale as I am.


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh, my bad. Lol.

newfag here.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2011)

Well, it's a new development. 


That's cool, though. I'm glad you're here, even when this fresh. This was the first place I posted.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 2, 2011)

Y'know, just putting it out here.

I was one of the fans that didn't get every pairing right, at least when it came to the main characters in series where pairings weren't set in stone. I rooted for Aya in Ichigo, I rooted for Noe in True Tears, I rooted for Tomoyo in Clannad ... I never got one concrete pairing right.

Then came Avatar. I rooted for Kataang all the way, since I genuinely liked the ship. However, when the Book 3 SDCC trailer came, it was full of Zutara teasers. I was like, oh well, here it goes again. That disappointment came in more when Ember Island happened. Mai was in Boiling Rock, and I was so sure Zutara would happen.

Kiss happened at the end though, and that's why ATLA is a memorable series for me. It was the first series that didn't disappoint.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 2, 2011)

Definitely Kirito. First series that didn't disappoint me. There wasn't an episode or development that I disagreed with.  Its such a fun show to watch, and to me it never really gets old. 

I liked Kataang because it wasn't the typical "cool" guy gets the girl. Aang was such an airy character, fun, and definitely deserved some love (the end kiss was sweet too lol). Though I could be biased, I really like Zuko with Mai.


----------



## Wan (Aug 2, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Y'know, just putting it out here.
> 
> I was one of the fans that didn't get every pairing right, at least when it came to the main characters in series where pairings weren't set in stone. I rooted for Aya in Ichigo, I rooted for Noe in True Tears, I rooted for Tomoyo in Clannad ... I never got one concrete pairing right.
> 
> ...



Really?  I was 100% sure that Maiko would happen after The Boiling Rock.  After what Mai did for him, no way would Zuko have just given up on her.  At least, not without totally not deserving Katara afterwards and thus ruining whatever potential for romance there was.

Wasn't there some Zutara fan comic that actually made Mai the villain...?


----------



## Shade (Aug 2, 2011)

Following the proper rules of portmanteau, some possible ones for Korra/Mako:

KorrKo
MakRa
KorAko 
KorrMa

Maybe it's better we stick with Makorra.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2011)

No, Korko will do just fine. 




Oman said:


> Wasn't there some Zutara fan comic that actually made Mai the villain...?


----------



## Jena (Aug 2, 2011)

Oman said:


> Wasn't there some Zutara fan comic that actually made Mai the villain...?



Oh God man, no!

NO

Bury the thought in your mind before it's too late! If you seek the truth, it will destroy you!

     .


----------



## Shade (Aug 2, 2011)

Welp, this whole page is tainted.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 2, 2011)

I like Korrko better than the others. Sounds korazy. 



Jena said:


> Oh God man, no!
> 
> NO
> 
> ...


----------



## Koi (Aug 2, 2011)

Debating whether I want to try and stay up for tonight's Pottermore clue makes me think about how sweet it would be if Bryke did something similar and made a place to dump all the extra information they have for the Avatarverse with some neat game elements on the side.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 2, 2011)

Oman said:


> Wasn't there some Zutara fan comic that actually made Mai the villain...?


I just read it with my sister. We couldn't stop. 

A lot of copy pasta in that...thing. I'm not sure I understood what was going on beside Katara got preggy with Zuko's baby while he was married to Mai who is mega villain I guess...?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 2, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> A lot of copy pasta in that...thing. I'm not sure I understood what was going on beside Katara got preggy with Zuko's baby while he was married to Mai who is mega villain I guess...?



WTF...that was in the storyline...?!

Isnt that like a chapter from the Twilight series...?


----------



## Kirito (Aug 2, 2011)

Oman said:


> Really?  I was 100% sure that Maiko would happen after The Boiling Rock.  After what Mai did for him, no way would Zuko have just given up on her.  At least, not without totally not deserving Katara afterwards and thus ruining whatever potential for romance there was.



At that time, it was my inner pessimist. 

EDIT: Sorry but I can't help but laugh at your name. 



Jena said:


> Oh God man, no!
> 
> NO
> 
> ...



These crazy Zutarians. 

EDIT: I couldn't bring myself to read after page 18 of the first chapter ...  it's too dark for me


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 2, 2011)

It seems to me that the anti-benders, or equalists, their proper name, are a rather zealous faction, not unlike the crusaders or Spanish Inquisition in our world, and Amon is their leader, a person who sways the masses with his charisma and rallies his followers by convincing them that benders are evil and need to be eliminated. However, I hope that at least some of the equalists are not completely evil or overly zealous and can be convinced that not all benders are evil. Does anyone else here share that hope?


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 2, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> It seems to me that the anti-benders, or equalists, their proper name, are a rather zealous faction, not unlike the crusaders or Spanish Inquisition in our world, and Amon is their leader, a person who sways the masses with his charisma and rallies his followers by convincing them that benders are evil and need to be eliminated. However, I hope that at least some of the equalists are not completely evil or overly zealous and can be convinced that not all benders are evil. Does anyone else here share that hope?



I would hope so too.

'Cause if they're all completely evil and one way-minded, then they'd be so boring.

We'd be getting the same thing over and over again in Korra.

I think there could be a Zuko-like character in Korra though.


----------



## Burke (Aug 2, 2011)

my suggestion of St. Jove still stands 

also jove, i herd you gave it hard to rafaella


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2011)

The Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades were institutional. The Equalists appear to be the exact opposite...



N??ps said:


> my suggestion of St. Jove still stands
> 
> also jove, i herd you gave it hard to rafaella



That idiot that got banned for autoplay? Wasn't me.


----------



## Burke (Aug 2, 2011)

Explain this autoplay


----------



## Stunna (Aug 2, 2011)

You know, autoplay is when someone posts an MP3 that automatically starts playing a song when the page is reached. Some members started complaining about it so now apparently it's banned. Thank God.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 2, 2011)

Autoplay is posting youtube that *auto*matically *play*s when a page is opened. We've set things up so that you can't just post autoplay. Someone would have to go out of his or her way to post autoplay.


It's obnoxious. That thing was one of the unfortunate first casualties.


----------



## Jena (Aug 2, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Autoplay is posting youtube that *auto*matically *play*s when a page is opened. We've set things up so that you can't just post autoplay. Someone would have to go out of his or her way to post autoplay.
> 
> 
> It's obnoxious. That thing was one of the unfortunate first casualties.



Wait...like in their sig, or on their profile, or...?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 2, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> WTF...that was in the storyline...?!
> 
> Isnt that like a chapter from the Twilight series...?



Probably is, I'm not sure.


----------



## Quaero (Aug 2, 2011)

Chiming in late on the discussion, but I believe that in a Toph vs Bumi fight, Bumi would win. Mainly because Toph has never faced an earthbender that could actually give her a run for her money.


----------



## Shade (Aug 2, 2011)

Some new fan art:


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 2, 2011)

Shade said:


> Some new fan art:



BOLIN, BOLIN, BOLIN!

Ahem...very nice fanarts, Shade. Thank you for sharing! They shall be added to my Korra library pek

EDIT:




Quaero said:


> Chiming in late on the discussion, but I believe that in a Toph vs Bumi fight, Bumi would win. Mainly because Toph has never faced an earthbender that could actually give her a run for her money.





Toph can only lose against an Avatar/Aang.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 3, 2011)

Koi said:


> Debating whether I want to try and stay up for tonight's Pottermore clue makes me think about how sweet it would be if Bryke did something similar and made a place to dump all the extra information they have for the Avatarverse with some neat game elements on the side.



Good thinking. I'd like to see something like that, as well. Hehe, good thing I already have my registration for Pottermore...


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Perfect place to wank Azula.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

lol yeah



wait



what


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Well, it's not like she needs it.  Her feats speak for themselves.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

Who's wanking off azula? 

Women and their harry potters


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

The series is wanking Azula. 

Slayer of the Avatar. Only plot saved him.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

Zuko did too in the second episode.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Did the Avatar effectively die?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

Well, no... but he was knocked unconscious and was going to drown!


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Did the Avatar effectively die?



she cold cocked him from behind


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

>Expecting villains to play fairly


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

Yeah. Zuko had the gall to take Aang on one on one and win. 

Albeit temporarily.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

admittedly, that was season 1 aang.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Azula also could've killed Aang while on the drill, but she wanted him to be conscious for his death. Seems out of character for Azula, but then again, I guess Aang had to live.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> >Expecting villains to play fairly



Azula's dirty play is fair pek


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

N??ps said:


> admittedly, that was season 1 aang.



_Shhhhhh!_**


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

oh shit i just got an idea.

Terra (tophs bitch)
LB (azulas bitch)

Toph vs Azula

/debate


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Azula's such a magnificent bastard. She's got a killer instinct that's _so_ Firebender. I just love it. 

Edit: Azula's lightning broke clean through Toph's raised wall of earth. I think the outcome is clear.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

N??ps said:


> oh shit i just got an idea.
> 
> Terra (tophs bitch)
> LB (azulas bitch)
> ...


Azula.

    /debate


----------



## Jena (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Azula also could've killed Aang while on the drill, but she wanted him to be conscious for his death. Seems out of character for Azula, but then again, I guess Aang had to live.



I guess it's not that out of character. Azula was pretty arrogant and relished in fighting. She probably wanted to finish him off while he fought back to prove her superiority.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Jena said:


> I guess it's not that out of character. Azula was pretty arrogant and relished in fighting. She probably wanted to finish him off while he fought back to prove her superiority.



She was willing to attack him from behind, kill him with a deadly bolt of lightning, and chase him across landmass after landmass, but just stood there, waiting for him to wake up? Azula's one to go for the kill. She's a genre-savvy villain, so waiting for the opponent to wake up and have a chance to counter her seemed rather untrue to her usual mentality.


----------



## Jena (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> She was willing to attack him from behind, kill him with a deadly bolt of lightning, and chase him across landmass after landmass, but just stood there, waiting for him to wake up? Azula's one to go for the kill. She's a genre-savvy villain, so waiting for the opponent to wake up and have a chance to counter her seemed rather untrue to her usual mentality.



True, true. 

I haven't watched that episode in a while, so my memory is probably fuzzy.


----------



## Taurus Versant (Aug 3, 2011)

lol people legitimately replying to LB on the topic of Azula.

It's like you've learned absolutely nothing.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

No idea what you mean, TV.



Jena said:


> True, true.
> 
> I haven't watched that episode in a while, so my memory is probably fuzzy.



She picked him up and pushed him against the wall. She didn't even form a fireball until he woke up a little bit later.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

I didn't think anyone was answering seriously


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

Well, LB, you certainly are a shrewd fangirl. An entire page of Azula canonization, and yet not one mention of Katara. Interesting.


----------



## Jena (Aug 3, 2011)

Taurus Versant said:


> lol people legitimately replying to LB on the topic of Azula.
> 
> It's like you've learned absolutely nothing.



To be fair, I'm a noob.

I dunno any better.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Well, LB, you certainly are a shrewd fangirl. An entire page of Azula canonization, and yet not one mention of Katara. Interesting.



And that damned horse appears again. 

To be quite honest, I think Katara beating Azula at the end was an asspull/plot. I don't know how one expects anyone to believe that Azula, powered 1000+x by Sozin's Comet, would have been defeated by sewer water and conveniently placed chains. Azula had to be beaten, though, so it had to be done. Even then, she came within an inch of killing Katara on a children's show.  Got as far as a villain could go with the audience's age/restrictions in mind. 

Still don't see why Azula didn't melt through the chains, or how Katara's water enveloped Azula and her faster than lightning could've shot from her fingertips.

I certainly think Katara's prodigious, but she's beaten Azula twice. Once when it was night and Katara was stronger, which was understandable. But during Sozin's Comet? I call bullshit.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

The real balderdash that Katara was running away from Azula. Katara is supposed to be intelligent; wouldn't she realize she had Azula's number?


Physically dominated her at Ba Sing Se.

Outsmarted her at the Royal Palace.


And Azula couldn't even make hair loopies. That's the real reason she hacked it off. Katara prevails again.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> The real balderdash that Katara was running away from Azula. Katara is supposed to be intelligent; wouldn't she realize she had Azula's number?
> 
> 
> Physically dominated her at Ba Sing Se.
> ...



Azula was melting Katara's ice like popsicles near a bonfire. She had good reason to run away.  Physically dominating her at Ba Sing Se, I'll give you that, but at night, so she had an advantage. 

Tricking a mentally unstable person isn't the biggest feat of intelligence. Then again, Azula was sane enough to go for the better target in her Agni Kai against Zuko, and to be able to use lightning despite her inner turmoil. 

And please. Katara realized hair loopies were inferior to bangs, hence why she no longer wore them sometime after meeting Azula.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

And look at the spouses. Katara ends up with Aang, uber-Avatar and savior of the Avatar universe. 


Azula gets Haru.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

her guys i heard there is a new series, maybe we should talk about that


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> And look at the spouses. Katara ends up with *Aang, uber-Avatar and savior of the Avatar universe.*



Whom Azula stomped. He decided to fight her father as opposed to her. 



> Azula gets Haru.





What blasphemy are you spouting, peasant?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

We've practically talked about everything we've learned about Korra.

I wish I had as many Zuko gifs as you have of Azula, LB.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

N??ps said:


> her guys i heard there is a new series, maybe we should talk about that


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

noops has been defeated
+16xp


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> We've practically talked about everything we've learned about Korra.
> 
> I wish I had as many Zuko gifs as you have of Azula, LB.



I have quite a bit of him. I had them personally made by a good friend.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Whom Azula stomped. He decided to fight her father as opposed to her.



Azula was an inferior version of her father, so clearly Aang didn't even consider Azula a threat to him by that point. 





LegendaryBeauty said:


> What blasphemy are you spouting, peasant?







A sad end, but maybe she just wanted a fuckawesome father-in-law.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> I have quite a bit of him. I had them personally made by a good friend.


Can I have some?!


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

I'll see what I can dig up. I also gave my Zuzu (Marco) some as well, as you can see by his set. Just credit the one who made them.

Alien: 









Ms. Jove said:


> Azula was an inferior version of her father, so clearly Aang didn't even consider Azula a threat to him by that point.



And yet she had defeated him time and time again.  He was just scared to fight her, so he went for the original evil.



> A sad end, but maybe she just wanted a fuckawesome father-in-law.



SMH fanart. Not canon.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Watching Sozin's Comet, Part 3 on TV right now. Azula won't have her first day as Fire Lord marred by poor foot hygiene.

And I love how she banished everyone.  It's what I say happens in my Avatar mafia games, as opposed to being modkilled.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

She was too scared to fight _him_. That's why she had to attack from behind and had to make sure he was woozy on The Drill. Just _looking_ unconscious was too dangerous for Azula. 


And that is 100% canon, no Bryke needed. Ozai was there in full regalia just because; his time in a cell turned him into a likeable grouch.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

N??ps said:


> oh shit i just got an idea.
> 
> *Terra (tophs bitch)*
> LB (azulas bitch)
> ...


Never have truer words been said about me. 

Toph would destroy Azula. 



LegendaryBeauty said:


> Azula's such a magnificent bastard. She's got a killer instinct that's _so_ Firebender. I just love it.
> 
> *Edit: Azula's lightning broke clean through Toph's raised wall of earth. I think the outcome is clear. *




Azula is a loud mouth; she never stops talking or moving. It would be like hitting a wall for Toph, a loud wall.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> She was too scared to fight _him_. That's why she had to attack from behind and had to make sure he was woozy on The Drill. Just _looking_ unconscious was too dangerous for Azula.



She got him to that state. Aang's afraid of her craftiness. 



> And that is 100% canon, no Bryke needed. Ozai was there in full regalia just because; his time in a cell turned him into a likeable grouch.



Lies and slander.



Terra Branford said:


> Never have truer words been said about me.
> 
> Toph would *get* destroy*ed* Azula.



Fixed for you.






> Azula is a loud mouth; she never stops talking or moving. It would be like hitting a wall for Toph, a loud wall.



>Inspirational speaker
>Agile enemy
>Outmanuevering Aang, Toph and Sokka, with minimal assistance from the Dai Li while _powerless._

If Toph can't even land a hit on Azula, how can she possibly win? Azula's shown that Toph's rock can't do a single thing against her lightning, which takes mere seconds to generate. Good luck defending from that.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

pfft toph could cover herself in...
super...
conductive...
metal...?

nevermind


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

She could bury herself underground to evade.

/devil's advocate


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

then again, earthbending with a solid hit can OHKO too, just look at jet.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

>Lightning wants to ground itself
>Toph buries herself in the ground
>???
>LB laughing

The problem would be getting a solid hit on Azula. Aang, one of the fastest characters, and an airbender who specializes in evasion, said sh was too quick and he couldn't pin her down. How can Toph expect to?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

lolwut? Generated lightning isn't attracted to the ground. /devil's advocate


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Fixed for you.






LegendaryBeauty said:


> >Inspirational speaker
> >Agile enemy
> >Outmanuevering Aang, Toph and Sokka, with minimal assistance from the Dai Li while _powerless._
> 
> If Toph can't even land a hit on Azula, how can she possibly win? Azula's shown that Toph's rock can't do a single thing against her lightning, which takes mere seconds to generate. Good luck defending from that.



She could to hit Azula. Azula just ran away 'cause she's a coward when it comes to Toph.  

Rockslides, columns, cave-ins, avalanches, rock body (showed useful against Azula I believe?) and more.  And she can do this blind.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> She could to hit Azula. Azula just ran away 'cause she's a coward when it comes to Toph.
> 
> Rockslides, columns, cave-ins, avalanches, rock body (showed useful against Azula I believe?) and more.  And she can do this blind.



Please. Azula was leading them into a trap. The moment someone pointed it out, Toph and the others backed off. And you call Azula a coward? Who's the one who would only face her when she couldn't bend?

Lightning > Toph. Plain and simple.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

depends on the setting
toph in a cave would be ideal


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

She'd have the advantage, certainly. But I'd also wager limited mobility if they're in a cave. Which means less dodging time. Which means...


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

Again, hop underground. 

/devil's advocate


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

>Lightning wants to grund itself
>Hide in ground

Okay.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Please. Azula was leading them into a trap. The moment someone pointed it out, Toph and the others backed off. And you call Azula a coward? Who's the one who would only face her when she couldn't bend?
> 
> Lightning > Toph. Plain and simple.



Not really a trap, a diversion. And she ran away, which is still cowardly. Besides, Toph would have faced her any other day too because that's just Toph. 

Azula had the same thing practically done to Toph. Had her bending taken away so she wouldn't have her arse handed to her. 



LegendaryBeauty said:


> She'd have the advantage, certainly. But I'd also wager limited mobility if they're in a cave. Which means less dodging time. Which means...



Earthbending isn't about evading. Besides, she'd have earth all about her to destroy Azula with. Cave-in the cave and BAM! Azula's dead.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> >Lightning wants to grund itself
> >Hide in ground
> 
> Okay.



Name one instance where generated lightning grounded itself. Just one. /devil's advocate


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Not really a trap, a diversion. And she ran away, which is still cowardly. Besides, Toph would have faced her any other day too because that's just Toph.
> 
> Azula had the same thing practically done to Toph. Had her bending taken away so she wouldn't have her arse handed to her.



Point was, Azula was outmanuevering Toph and Aang and Sokka. Call it running away, I call it a tactical manuever. Waste time for the eclipse, and then ensure her father remained undefeated. The moment she was freed, she still left. It's not a matter of her being afraid to fight them, it's a matter of her having completed her task of wasting their eclipse time.



> Earthbending isn't about evading. Besides, she'd have earth all about her to destroy Azula with. Cave-in the cave and BAM! Azula's dead.



All the earth in the underground bunker didn't help Toph to pin down Azula any better. Even after the Dai Li were taken out of the equation.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

This might be the battle that tears Terra apart from the inside.

To boot, I think that Azula would beat Toph 75-80% of the time. Azula and Toph as we knew them in the series, of course. 16 year old Toph would probably bring that number down to 60-65%.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Name one instance where generated lightning grounded itself. Just one. /devil's advocate



Lightning by nature tries to ground itself. Just because it hasn't been shown doesn't mean that it's suddenly not possible, especially given that this same lightning has the properties of real lightning, i.e. potentially killing someone, paralyzing someone, coursing through their bodies and causing twitching/jerking, etc. Lightning is conductive. I don't see why generated lightning wouldn't be.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

Non-limit's fallacy. /devil's advocate


----------



## Shade (Aug 3, 2011)

I still can't get over the absurdity of the suggestion that Azula could anywhere be near her father's strength.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

the lightning shown in the show doesnt seem to divert directly to the ground as you say.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

No comments were made in seriousness about Azula comparing to her father in strength, though I'm curious about how they match up. I was bantering with them.



Stunna said:


> Non-limit's fallacy. /devil's advocate



That's defined as such:



> The no limits fallacy is the illogical idea that a poorly understood phenomenon can be extrapolated to infinity or assumed to not have any maximum value or threshold.



I'm not talking about a quantity or level of strength. I'm talking about a property of the lightning, i.e. conductivity and the fact that lightning attempts to ground itself.

Edit: And I'd attribute that to lightning redirection. Almost all instances of lightning being shot resulted in it being either redirected or not seen from again.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

it seems weve gone beyond playfullness entirely
this isnt fun anymore


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm having fun.

And even if generated lightning does ultimately ground itself, I doubt it would do so in a close enough proximity to affect Toph.

/devil's advocate


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Actually, I really am curious about how Azula matches up to her father. What instances have made him seem vastly superior? The only time we've seen him firebend/lightning bend (IIRC) was during Sozin's Comet. Both feats of which Azula is capable of, and proficient with.

Edit: Well, if it's being shot at Toph...

The only thing I don't like about how the lightning was portrayed was how easily it was intercepted. I mean, really: Zuko was able to intercept it when it was well on its way to Katara. Anyone else think this was plot, or is the lightning just that slow?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Point was, Azula was outmanuevering Toph and Aang and Sokka. Call it running away, I call it a tactical manuever. Waste time for the eclipse, and then ensure her father remained undefeated. The moment she was freed, she still left. It's not a matter of her being afraid to fight them, it's a matter of her having completed her task of wasting their eclipse time.
> 
> 
> All the earth in the underground bunker didn't help Toph to pin down Azula any better. Even after the Dai Li were taken out of the equation.



Cowardice, I say. Couldn't fight Toph so she ran away. And Toph got distracted by her comments is all. 

Yea, 'cause blocking Toph's chi totally means she's not afraid of Toph.  



Ms. Jove said:


> This might be the battle that tears Terra apart from the inside.
> 
> To boot, I think that Azula would beat Toph 75-80% of the time. Azula and Toph as we knew them in the series, of course. 16 year old Toph would probably bring that number down to 60-65%.


It only tears me apart from the inside because I love them both.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Cowardice, I say. Couldn't fight Toph so she ran away. And Toph got distracted by her comments is all.
> 
> Yea, 'cause blocking Toph's chi totally means she's not afraid of Toph.



Defeating an opponent = being afraid of them?  Ty Lee dealt with Toph. Azula needn't dirty her hands, especially with Toph being covered in a "healthy coating of earth".


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Defeating an opponent = being afraid of them?  Ty Lee dealt with Toph. Azula needn't dirty her hands, especially with Toph being covered in a "healthy coating of earth".



Azula used a hostage to make her not fight and then had her friend block her chi. She didn't defeat anyone.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Azula used a hostage to make her not fight and then had her friend block her chi. She didn't defeat anyone.



It's called being clever. You can't seriously expect a villain to play by the rules, do you?


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

"Remember, your enemy is _not_ gunna play fair."
*-Kilowog*


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> It's called being clever. You can't seriously expect a villain to play by the rules, do you?



No, but still, its not a battle if one never even started 'cause the other was too frightened to actual fight. You can't really call it a defeat.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No, but still, its not a battle if one never even started 'cause the other was too frightened to actual fight. You can't really call it a defeat.



Oh it's a battle. It just ended before it began, because Azula's plans came to fruition.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Oh it's a battle. It just ended before it began, because Azula's plans came to fruition.



It is not a battle. A battle never started, so if a battle never started a battle couldn't be won. R


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Unless prior planning rendered a battle over so quickly, that it couldn't be considered one.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

Azula did win the battle of wits.


Toph won the battle of genetics-passing-on, though.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

hah, azula died alone and childless.


----------



## Suigetsu (Aug 3, 2011)

Hey is it true that the show got a season cutted out? that there where supposed to be 4 seasons instead?

Also I think that the scar face prince it's a wuss.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

I like to think she met an understanding and patient orderly in a Fire Nation asylum that helped her back to mental wellness and console her mommy issues, permitting her to find what she truly wanted all along: love.

pek


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

N??ps said:


> hah, azula died alone and childless.


That's sad. 

Maybe Amon is her kid 



LegendaryBeauty said:


> Unless prior planning rendered a battle over so quickly, that it couldn't be considered one.



Nope, still not a battle.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Your denial is amusing.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

The only way Azula can beat Chief Bei Fong is if she ends up being Bolin's grandmother or something.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

admittedly, jove has spoken truer words, but that sentence is close.


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Actually, I really am curious about how Azula matches up to her father. What instances have made him seem vastly superior? The only time we've seen him firebend/lightning bend (IIRC) was during Sozin's Comet. Both feats of which Azula is capable of, and proficient with.
> 
> Edit: Well, if it's being shot at Toph...
> 
> The only thing I don't like about how the lightning was portrayed was how easily it was intercepted. I mean, really: Zuko was able to intercept it when it was well on its way to Katara. Anyone else think this was plot, or is the lightning just that slow?



I believe Ozai could generate lightning faster than Azula. I think that's the only thing that he actually has over her.

And it's not plot.

Zuko's just FTL.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Just reading them on the wiki now. Interesting.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 3, 2011)

LB...it's like you're actually channelling Azula  




LegendaryBeauty said:


> Actually, I really am curious about how Azula matches up to her father. What instances have made him seem vastly superior? The only time we've seen him firebend/lightning bend (IIRC) was during Sozin's Comet. Both feats of which Azula is capable of, and proficient with.
> 
> Edit: Well, if it's being shot at Toph...
> 
> The only thing I don't like about how the lightning was portrayed was how easily it was intercepted. I mean, really: Zuko was able to intercept it when it was well on its way to Katara. *Anyone else think this was plot, or is the lightning just that slow?*



IIRC, she shot Katara a look just prior to unleashing the lightning.  That was pretty much like telegraphing a punch; and, that could have been classic Azula too (no matter what I will get one of you).  But it did seem like it left her fingers as he was just starting to react.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

> The only way Azula can beat Chief Bei Fong is if she ends up being Bolin's grandmother or something.



No one can beat Toph or her offspring. 



LegendaryBeauty said:


> Your denial is amusing.


I have no denial,


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No one can beat Toph or her offspring.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm going to go ahead and assume after Hawky delivered the letter, he was eaten by a um....giant bug thing. There, no more Hawky.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> I believe Ozai could generate lightning faster than Azula. I think that's the only thing that he actually has over her.
> 
> And it's not plot.
> 
> Zuko's just FTL.



He generated lightning against Zuko with two quick, large sweeps of his arms, before pointing and releasing it at Zuko. Azula generated it in two or so sweeps when she shot through Toph's wall of earth during The Chase. Not really much of a difference, imo, and the latter is Azula's fastest generation of lightning shown.



Soul Assassin said:


> LB...it's like you're actually channelling Azula



I consider her my animated form. 




> IIRC, she shot Katara a look just prior to unleashing the lightning.  That was pretty much like telegraphing a punch; and, that could have been classic Azula too (no matter what I will get one of you).  But it did seem like it left her fingers as he was just starting to react.



The lightning had just reached/was close to Zuko's side before he began running. Regardless of whether or not she had shown her intent at the last second, the lightning had already been released before he even decided to move. Or is Zuko just FTL, as narutoguy03 said? 

Also, I didn't know new info was released. I haven't followed it for quite a bit. The idea of Toph having a daughter, especially when the last shown image of her is as a 12 year old...it's kind of hard to grasp.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Also, I didn't know new info was released. I haven't followed it for quite a bit. The idea of Toph having a daughter, especially when the last shown image of her is as a 12 year old...it's kind of hard to grasp.



She fell for The Duke. pek


----------



## Glued (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No one can beat Toph or her offspring.



Combustion Man


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Combustion Man



She didn't lose against him. They all took off 'cause he crept up on them while they slept. Unless you mean in The Runaway, 'cause Katara lost to him, not Toph. 

Another coward.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

Combustion Man's firepower is too much for Toph. She would be demolished.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Combustion Man's firepower is too much for Toph. She would be demolished.



Nuh-uh. It took a lot of his blasts to break some of the stone in the Air temple. He would have a hard time fighting Toph.

The only person who could possibly defeat Toph is an Airbender and the Avatar. pek


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Or the person who defeated the Avatar.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Or the person who defeated the Avatar.



Azula didn't "defeat" Aang. She wussed out and struck him while he couldn't fight because she was frightened of him.  Only way she can "win" is to take their power away or when their backs are turned.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> I consider her my animated form.
> 
> The lightning had just reached/was close to Zuko's side before he began running. Regardless of whether or not she had shown her intent at the last second, the lightning had already been released before he even decided to move. Or is Zuko just FTL, as narutoguy03 said?
> 
> Also, I didn't know new info was released. I haven't followed it for quite a bit. The idea of Toph having a daughter, especially when the last shown image of her is as a 12 year old...it's kind of hard to grasp.



 

The perspective was likely difficult to illustrate, but the scene has always looked off to me.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Azula didn't "defeat" Aang. She wussed out and struck him while he couldn't fight because she was frightened of him.  Only way she can "win" is to take their power away or when their backs are turned.



Toph only bothers fighting Azula when A.) there's multiple people against her (i.e. Aang, Zuko, Katara, Iroh, Sokka) or B.) when she's unable to bend anything.

And still couldn't do shit.  Pathetic.



Soul Assassin said:


> The perspective was likely difficult to illustrate, but the scene has always looked off to me.



Slow motion does that, I suppose. The lightning should've been faster, imo, that's my only complaint.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 3, 2011)

The lightning Azula shot was magic lightning, not as fast as real lightning...


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

I should get Banhammer in here.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> The lightning Azula shot was magic lightning, not as fast as real lightning...



**


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Toph only bothers fighting Azula when A.) there's multiple people against her (i.e. Aang, Zuko, Katara, Iroh, Sokka) or B.) when she's unable to bend anything.
> 
> And still couldn't do shit.  Pathetic.



That just so happens to be the only time they ever get to meet face to face.  Each time Azula comes to "win" she has to wait until they are too tired to actually fight, or can't bend, locked up, not even in the battle or even if she chooses to form some little battle, Azula always runs away. 

Not much of a fight or a villain if the only way to win is to take their bending away or wait until they can't fight.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> That just so happens to be the only time they ever get to meet face to face.  Each time Azula comes to "win" she has to wait until they are too tired to actually fight, or can't bend, locked up, not even in the battle or even if she chooses to form some little battle, Azula always runs away.
> 
> Not much of a fight or a villain if the only way to win is to take their bending away or wait until they can't fight.



Toph's not much of a fighter if she does the same. Azula's just as good a villain if she strategically strikes when her inferiors are at their weakest regardless.


----------



## Burke (Aug 3, 2011)

terra has a point.
they never got the opportunity to fight eachother for real


----------



## Quaero (Aug 3, 2011)

N??ps said:


> pfft toph could cover herself in...
> super...
> conductive...
> metal...?
> ...



Actually, that is one of the best ways to protect yourself from an electric current. 

The electricity goes through the more conductive metal into the ground without passing through the less conductive body. 

It's known as a Faraday cage. 

Alright, I've been thinking.  When destiny gives you lime-lemons, don't make lime-lemonade.  Make destiny take the lime-lemons BACK!  Get mad!  I don't want your damn lime-lemons!  What am I supposed to do with these?  Demand to see destiny's sifu!  Make destiny rue the day it thought it could give Tenzin lime-lemons!  Do you know who I am?  I'm the airbender who's going to blow your house down!  With the lime-lemons!  I'm going to get my kids to make a lime-lemon fan that blows your house down!

The more you know.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Toph's not much of a fighter if she does the same. Azula's *just as good a villain if she strategically strikes when her inferiors are at their weakest regardless. *



Toph never took someone's bending away to win a "battle". Whacha talkin' about. 

If so, then its the same for Toph, no?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 3, 2011)

I wanted to see Aang fight Azula again after having "mastered" all four arts.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Toph couldn't beat Azula when she couldn't even bend. When she tried to strike Azula, the Princess simply turned that into a platform with which to enhance her own backflip.

Toph is nothing compared to Azula. I like her character, though. 



Terra Branford said:


> Toph never took someone's bending away to win a "battle". Whacha talkin' about.
> 
> If so, then its the same for Toph, no?



I'm talking about the Day of Black Sun. Toph's not a villain. Her doing so would be cowardice. Azula goes for chances, bets on odds regardless of them being against her, and wins regularly. Each encounter, Toph has yet to effect Azula in any way.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> I'm talking about the Day of Black Sun. Toph's not a villain. Her doing so would be cowardice. Azula goes for chances, bets on odds regardless of them being against her, and wins regularly. Each encounter, Toph has yet to effect Azula in any way.



Not really. Strategy is strategy. It isn't something only villains can do.  

So in battle, Toph would rockasmash Azula and win. 



> Toph couldn't beat Azula when she couldn't even bend. When she tried to strike Azula, the Princess simply turned that into a platform with which to enhance her own backflip.
> 
> Toph is nothing compared to Azula. I like her character, though.


Puh-lease, Azula did the running. Wouldn't stick around to have her arse handed back to her by Toph. 

Toph > Azula in every single way.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 3, 2011)

Again, we saw what happened when Toph tried to keep Azula away. Her rock was obliterated with ease.

Just like Toph would be.  I'd love to see her try to metal bend against Azula, too.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Again, we saw what happened when Toph tried to keep Azula away. Her rock was obliterated with ease.
> 
> Just like Toph would be.  I'd love to see her try to metal bend against Azula, too.



Just because rock can be destroyed doesn't mean she can't win using it. Aang used rock against Azula and was winning the battle, which was another battle Azula ran away from. 

Toph could metal bend her armor/stuff and kill her that way.


----------



## Quaero (Aug 3, 2011)

Alright, I've been thinking.  When destiny gives you lime-lemons, don't make lime-lemonade.  Make destiny take the lime-lemons BACK!  Get mad!  I don't want your damn lime-lemons!  What am I supposed to do with these?  Demand to see destiny's sifu!  Make destiny rue the day it thought it could give Tenzin lime-lemons!  Do you know who I am?  I'm the airbender who's going to blow your house down!  With the lime-lemons!  I'm going to get my kids to make a lime-lemon fan that blows your house down!

More proof that a Iron Toph would be able to deal with lightning.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 3, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Alright, I've been thinking.  When destiny gives you lime-lemons, don't make lime-lemonade.  Make destiny take the lime-lemons BACK!  Get mad!  I don't want your damn lime-lemons!  What am I supposed to do with these?  Demand to see destiny's sifu!  Make destiny rue the day it thought it could give Tenzin lime-lemons!  Do you know who I am?  I'm the airbender who's going to blow your house down!  With the lime-lemons!  I'm going to get my kids to make a lime-lemon fan that blows your house down!
> 
> More proof that a Iron Toph would be able to deal with lightning.



Star wars! Ahem...

Toph would definitely destroy Azula in a fight. pek


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 3, 2011)

Huh, Toph vs. Azula? That's a tough one, even though Toph's my favorite character. It depends a lot on whether or not Toph would be able to use her Earthsense on Azula, who is capable of lying and jumping into the air, away from Toph. While Azula does have the long range technique going for her, can Toph hide? Toph is always improving her Earthbending though. It's why she's a Master. She's not stuck on the whole "My element is superior to yours" mentality that Azula has.


----------



## Wan (Aug 4, 2011)

I think Toph vs Azula in a straight fight would be a pretty even match.  I don't think Azula avoiding Toph on The Day of Black Sun is a good example, because she was doing just that:  avoiding, not fighting.  And she had help.

If this discussion gets fierce we can settle this in the OBD.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

Oman said:


> I think Toph vs Azula in a straight fight would be a pretty even match.  I don't think Azula avoiding Toph on The Day of Black Sun is a good example, because she was doing just that:  avoiding, not fighting.  And she had help.
> 
> If this discussion gets fierce we can settle this in the OBD.



She was running away, avoiding is what Aang did in the Headband episode.


----------



## Suigetsu (Aug 4, 2011)

... you guys are creeping the fck out of me. I am out.


----------



## Burke (Aug 4, 2011)

Suigetsu said:


> ... you guys are creeping the fck out of me. I am out.



:jove
**


----------



## Kirito (Aug 4, 2011)

Azula is still alive?

What?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Azula is still alive?
> 
> What?



No, we're just talking about who would win -- Azula or Toph.


----------



## Burke (Aug 4, 2011)

I wonder just how many rocks lightning can pierce


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

N??ps said:


> I wonder just how many rocks lightning can pierce



I would say about two-maybe three, but it really depends on the type that is formed.  Aang barely had time to bring the rock shield up in that gif, and Toph's was just a cave-in like avalanche.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No, we're just talking about who would win -- Azula or Toph.



This should be in the OBD then. It will be settled with calcs and pixel measurements


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 4, 2011)

Kirito said:


> This should be in the OBD then. It will be settled with calcs and pixel measurements



Yeah everything gets settled in the OBD!


*Spoiler*: __ 



Well, not really  - but at least it can result in a lot facepalms and hilarity


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 4, 2011)

If Azula fought Toph, and if Toph had surrounded herself with metal, could Azula not use her fire to heat the metal and burn Toph within, as Ozai was attempting to do to Aang during their battle?

And if Aang ever fought Azula after having mastered all the elements, I believe that he would win, as he would have more options in combat. Therefore, I am glad that Zuko was the one who had the final fight against Azula, for both that reason and that she was his designated opponent, his rival, just as Itachi was for Sasuke in _Naruto_ or Goku was for Vegeta in _Dragon Ball;_ it would not have been dramatically appropriate if anyone else had defeated Azula, in my mind.

Since I have mentioned both Azula and Ozai, I wish to ask a question. I understand that Azula and Ozai were villains, and, therefore, they needed to be defeated, but was it really necessary, from an out-of-universe perspective, for them to be broken mentally? I do not at all have a problem with them being defeated and their plans ruined, but I believe that no person, regardless of what deeds they have committed, should experience such indignity and humiliation. Does anyone else agree with me on this subject?



N??ps said:


> hah, azula died alone and childless.



How do you know that? Have the creators of the series ever made any official statements on that subject?

I really hope that Azula recovered from her defeat, as I do not believe that she was completely evil, as was Ozai, and I would like it very much if she eventually found true love with someone and had children of her own, so that she could be a better parent to them than her own parents were to her.



LegendaryBeauty said:


> I should get Banhammer in here.



I implore that you do not do that, please. Banhammer and I do not interact well, at all, and as I am a frequent poster in this thread, there would be much tension here that would likely detract from the enjoyment of all other users present.


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## Stunna (Aug 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Since I have mentioned both Azula and Ozai, I wish to ask a question. I understand that Azula and Ozai were villains, and, therefore, they needed to be defeated, but was it really necessary, from an out-of-universe perspective, for them to be broken mentally? I do not at all have a problem with them being defeated and their plans ruined, but I believe that no person, regardless of what deeds they have committed, should experience such indignity and humiliation. Does anyone else agree with me on this subject?


I didn't think that Ozai had suffered any form of mental degradation, but I think Azula's breakdown was fitting. The series had been building up to that point. But as I stated earlier, I do like to think that with time she got better.


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## MunchKing (Aug 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> And if Aang ever fought Azula after having mastered all the elements, I believe that he would win, as he would have more options in combat. Therefore, I am glad that Zuko was the one who had the final fight against Azula, for both that reason and that she was his designated opponent, his rival, just as Itachi was for Sasuke in _Naruto_ or Goku was for Vegeta in _Dragon Ball;_ it would not have been dramatically appropriate if anyone else had defeated Azula, in my mind.



Aang and Ozai were as gods fighting over the fate of the world. A whole other level. Azula wouldn't stand a chance.

It was only fitting Zuko and Katara would be the ones to take Azula on. They both had beef with her and Zuko needed to claim the throne.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Since I have mentioned both Azula and Ozai, I wish to ask a question. I understand that Azula and Ozai were villains, and, therefore, they needed to be defeated, but was it really necessary, from an out-of-universe perspective, for them to be broken mentally? I do not at all have a problem with them being defeated and their plans ruined, but I believe that no person, regardless of what deeds they have committed, should experience such indignity and humiliation. Does anyone else agree with me on this subject?



Yes and no. It was cathartic to see Ozai like that. Cruel mercy at its finest. His pride and his abilities taken away. The bastard deserved it. 

As for Azula, the only thing I felt was pity. Poor girl.  



DemonDragonJ said:


> I really hope that Azula recovered from her defeat, as I do not believe that she was completely evil, as was Ozai, and I would like it very much if she eventually found true love with someone and had children of her own, so that she could be a better parent to them than her own parents were to her.



Can you imagine Azula with kids?


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 4, 2011)




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## Kirito (Aug 4, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> Can you imagine Azula with kids?



Yeah, and his/her name is Amon.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 4, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I didn't think that Ozai had suffered any form of mental degradation, but I think Azula's breakdown was fitting. The series had been building up to that point. But as I stated earlier, I do like to think that with time she got better.



What about _The Beach,_ where Azula displayed genuine remorse for the first, and only, time in the series? That episode showed to me that Azula was not completely evil. I still find it to be very unfortunate that Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee's friendship was broken after it had been renewed shortly before.



MunchKing said:


> Aang and Ozai were as gods fighting over the fate of the world. A whole other level. Azula wouldn't stand a chance.



I have asked this before, but what feats has Ozai demonstrated that are greater than Azula's?



MunchKing said:


> It was only fitting Zuko and Katara would be the ones to take Azula on. They both had beef with her and Zuko needed to claim the throne.



Yes, I agree with Zuko needing to fight Azula, but what personal grudge did Katara have against her?



MunchKing said:


> Can you imagine Azula with kids?



In complete honesty, no; I am certain that she would be too similar to Ozai in raising any children that she had, but it is not wrong to hope for something better, is it?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What about _The Beach,_ where Azula displayed genuine remorse for the first, and only, time in the series? That episode showed to me that Azula was not completely evil. I still find it to be very unfortunate that Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee's friendship was broken after it had been renewed shortly before.


I don't think remorse is the right word to use. She didn't seem to regret her malicious acts, but we did see that she had issues with her mother, and that she had issues with being alone. I never denied that Azula had potential for good, which is why, again, I like to think that she ultimately recovered and became such.



> I have asked this before, but what feats has Ozai demonstrated that are greater than Azula's?


We never really saw Ozai fight without his powers being enhanced by Sozin's Comet outside of his lightning generation at Zuko. But from that we do see is that out of Iroh, Azula, and himself, his generation was the fastest.


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have asked this before, but what feats has Ozai demonstrated that are greater than Azula's?



I would argue that Ozai had so much more raw power than his daughter. We have seen him fight only once (twice if you count his confrontation with Zuko) and in that battle he had a solid claim on victory (before the conveniently-placed-rock incident) against the Avatar. He was hopped up on SC, but he still was the most powerful firebender in existence, barring Iroh maybe. 

I believe she would have been overpowered by her father in a duel.

Also, fastest lightning charge in the series. 





DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I agree with Zuko needing to fight Azula, but what personal grudge did Katara have against her?



Azula shot her boytoy down with lightning. Azula was going_ down _


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## Burke (Aug 4, 2011)

Kirito said:


> This should be in the OBD then. It will be settled with calcs and pixel measurements



any avatar talk is relevent in this thread


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Since I have mentioned both Azula and Ozai, I wish to ask a question. I understand that Azula and Ozai were villains, and, therefore, they needed to be defeated, but was it really necessary, from an out-of-universe perspective, for them to be broken mentally? I do not at all have a problem with them being defeated and their plans ruined, but I believe that no person, regardless of what deeds they have committed, should experience such indignity and humiliation. Does anyone else agree with me on this subject?



Ozai never suffered from a mental breakdown, he was still perfectly sane by the end of the series...just imprisoned. Azula's breakdown, I thought, was both fitting and extremely sad. It showed she wasn't really a villain persay, just lost on her path. 

Its kind of messed up. Iroh didn't offer Azula any help. 



> What about The Beach, where Azula displayed genuine remorse for the first, and only, time in the series? That episode showed to me that Azula was not completely evil. I still find it to be very unfortunate that Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee's friendship was broken after it had been renewed shortly before.



Exactly. That episode showed it perfectly.

She wasn't really insane/evil, she was lost. Poor Azula, I want to give her a big hug. 



> Azula shot her boytoy down with lightning. Azula was going down


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

I think people are overstating it when they say Azula was crazy, but Ozai was "perfectly sane".

Ozai was nuts. He just wasn't as overt as Azula was (and Azula was only really obvious at the very end).


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> I think people are overstating it when they say Azula was crazy, but Ozai was "perfectly sane".
> 
> Ozai was nuts. He just wasn't as overt as Azula was (and Azula was only really obvious at the very end).



He wasn't having a mental breakdown like Azula. Ozai was perfectly capable and perfectly sane. He was conscious of his actions and knew exactly what he was doing and that it was wrong. He just didn't care.

Azula was mentally insane.
Ozai was just evil.

If he was insane, he would have broken down like Azula


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> He wasn't having a mental breakdown like Azula. Ozai was perfectly capable and perfectly sane. He was conscious of his actions and knew exactly what he was doing and that it was wrong. He just didn't care.
> 
> Azula was mentally insane.
> Ozai was just evil.
> ...



.....

I'm pretty sure thats not the test for insanity. Your only insane if you have "broken down". If that was the case, then you're saying that Azula was sane all throughout season 2 and most of season 3.

Ozai was not sane at all. He had zero compassion and zero empathy. He was probably less aware that what he was doing was wrong than Azula was, since Azula clearly enjoyed causing trouble more and was more overtly sadistic. Ozai acted like he didn't get what everyone's problem was- I mean, he's the Fire Lord, the Fire Nation are better than everyone, and those who are better are supposed to be in charge and do whatever they want. Its insane troll logic at its finest.

Ozai is the guy who reacted to his nephew's death by marching up to his dad and saying "make me your heir". He was willing to execute his son because his father told him to do so, and was talked out of it only because his wife suggested that she kill his father instead and they forge his last testament (and when he explains this to Zuko, he still acts like it was all his wife's fault). He wants to obliterate the Earth Kingdom just to show off. 

He is a childish, egotistical psychopath, and not sane at all.


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## Wan (Aug 4, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> Aang and Ozai were as gods fighting over the fate of the world. A whole other level. Azula wouldn't stand a chance.



Take it easy on the hyperbole.  Only Ozai's own delusions would see his power as "godly".







Terra Branford said:


> Ozai never suffered from a mental breakdown, he was still perfectly sane by the end of the series...just imprisoned. Azula's breakdown, I thought, was both fitting and extremely sad. It showed she wasn't really a villain persay, just lost on her path.
> 
> Its kind of messed up. Iroh didn't offer Azula any help.



Well, Iroh never really got the chance.  He mentored Zuko after Ozai banished him, so Iroh had Zuko all to himself without Ozai's influence.  Until Book 2 Azula was never far from the palace and Ozai's influence, so Iroh couldn't help her, especially considering that Azula had a low opinion of Iroh as early as "Zuko Alone".

...fridge brilliance!

Iroh did not oppose Ozai when he was usurped because after the loss of his son Iroh no longer wanted to be Fire Lord himself.  But he still did not want Ozai on the throne.  When Zuko was banished, Iroh joined him in the hopes of training the future Fire Lord to be a better person, possibly one who would end the war.  If the search for the Avatar ever succeeded, then the Avatar would be a ready ally in an effort to overthrow Ozai.

That crafty bastard.


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## Stunna (Aug 4, 2011)

Cool theory and all, but it's more like Wild Mass Guessing. If memory serves, Iroh explained that he refused to fight Ozai because history would view it as nothing more than two brothers fighting for the throne; more senseless violence.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> .....
> 
> I'm pretty sure thats not the test for insanity. Your only insane if you have "broken down". If that was the case, then you're saying that Azula was sane all throughout season 2 and most of season 3.
> 
> ...



No no, its just her breaking down really shows she's insane. Of course she was insane before, she just snapped in the last season/episode. It was all building up and up until finally she cracked.

Ozai was very well aware of what he was doing (he just didn't care if others thought he was evil etc) and even when offered a chance to stop his madness, he didn't want to because he wanted to be the ultra lord of all. He's just evil -- he's not insane.



Oman said:


> Well, Iroh never really got the chance.  He mentored Zuko after Ozai banished him, so Iroh had Zuko all to himself without Ozai's influence.  Until Book 2 Azula was never far from the palace and Ozai's influence, so Iroh couldn't help her, especially considering that Azula had a low opinion of Iroh as early as "Zuko Alone".



He could have stayed at the Nation to help her. She clearly needed it more.


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## Nayrael (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:
			
		

> If that was the case, then you're saying that Azula was sane all throughout season 2 and most of season 3.



During Season 2, Azula was sadistic, ruthless... but still sane. Events that happened later (mostly her getting betrayed by her only "friends") brought her to a mental breakdown  which, mixed with her personality and past, made her go insane. Even if she had some mental quirks, she was still able to control herself.



			
				masamune1 said:
			
		

> Ozai was not sane at all. He had zero compassion and zero empathy. He was probably less aware that what he was doing was wrong than Azula was, since Azula clearly enjoyed causing trouble more and was more overtly sadistic. Ozai acted like he didn't get what everyone's problem was- I mean, he's the Fire Lord, the Fire Nation are better than everyone, and those who are better are supposed to be in charge and do whatever they want. Its insane troll logic at its finest.
> 
> Ozai is the guy who reacted to his nephew's death by marching up to his dad and saying "make me your heir". He was willing to execute his son because his father told him to do so, and was talked out of it only because his wife suggested that she kill his father instead and they forge his last testament (and when he explains this to Zuko, he still acts like it was all his wife's fault). He wants to obliterate the Earth Kingdom just to show off.



That unethical and ruthless behavior, not insanity.
Saying that he needs to care is idealism. He was ambitious, grew up with certain kind of beliefs, was not idealistic and was able to get powerful. You may not like his actions, but that does not mean that he was insane.


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## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 4, 2011)

That does sound more like a lack of morality as opposed to sanity. They're talking about mental state and function, not a lack of conscience or remorse for actions.


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No no, its just her breaking down really shows she's insane. Of course she was insane before, she just snapped in the last season/episode. It was all building up and up until finally she cracked.
> 
> Ozai was very well aware of what he was doing (he just didn't care if others thought he was evil etc) and even when offered a chance to stop *his madness*, he didn't want to because he wanted to be the ultra lord of all. He's just evil -- he's not insane.



His madness?

So, he is crazy then?

I don't think you understand what insanity means. To be insane means you don't think, act and/ or behave like a normal person. In essence, anyone who is evil is also insane, since they don't think like normal people, they don't want what normal people want, and they don't have the same compunctions that normal people have. 

The fact that Ozai wanted to be "ultra lord of all" in the first place, the fact that he didn't care what others thought about it, thats what makes him crazy. Obliterating an entire nation just to show off your power is not sane at all; its warped, its twisted, and its rooted in his delusions and mad worldview. Its like he barely accepts that other people even count as people. He's an unprincipled elitist narcissist; he honestly believes he's special and needs to keep proving it to himself, and he thinks that because he is special that puts him above the laws and customs of ordinary mortals. 

The fact that he didn't have an overt breakdown doesn't make him any less nuts, because that kind of breakdown isn't proof of nuttiness. Lots of crazy insane people go through their entire lives not having one of those- it doesn't make them less crazy; and just having a breakdown, even a massive one, doesn't mean you _are_ crazy either.

Azula was the same. She was aware of what she was doing (and she certainly enjoyed doing it), and she turned down chances to stop her madness. But she still did it, both because she craved the attention and respect that came with her behaviour, and because she actually did enjoy it. Like her dad, she didn't see others as real people, though she didn't have it as _bad_ as him either since she actually went out into the world and actually had real friends, though she took them for granted. She's an attention seeking sociopath, and her breakdown is probably more because she was given too much power too soon, at the worst possible time when she was feeling especially paranoid thanks to her friends betrayal.

But it doesn't really make her any more crazy than her dad. If anything her breakdown is evidence that she is _saner,_ since it showed she was starting to see the world didn't work the way she thought it did, and that was what was driving her over the edge. Ozai was still stuck in his grandiose delusions even at the end; the fact that he was beaten by the Avatar didn't really threaten his worldview, and so he didn't have a breakdown (onscreen, anyway). He was more out of touch with reality than she was, and he didn't care about reality that much either. Thats why he didn't break down.


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## Ms. Jove (Aug 4, 2011)

I see two things over the last page that are displeasing:


1. The suggestion that Azula's breakdown was unnecessary

It stands as one of the narrative triumphs of the series, and was wholly satisfying. Imagine how boring it would have been for Azula simply to be overcome by Zuko outsmarted by Katara; that would have been unbelievably anticlimactic for the character that was the main villain during the show's peak period.


And


2. The suggestion that there is any value whatsoever to The Beach.


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## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 4, 2011)

I rather like the fact that Azula could only be overcome when she was already nerfed by her mental instability. While I'd have liked it to span out an episode or two more, I think it was handled well as it was.

The Beach was nice, imo. Just a little break from the tyranny they all commit, and reinforce the notion that they're also human with their own problems.


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## Dream Brother (Aug 4, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I see two things over the last page that are displeasing:
> 
> 
> 1. The suggestion that Azula's breakdown was unnecessary
> ...



The breakdown is the only reason I finally started liking Azula's character. Very glad they used it.


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Nayrael said:


> During Season 2, Azula was sadistic, ruthless... but still sane. Events that happened later (mostly her getting betrayed by her only "friends") brought her to a mental breakdown  which, mixed with her personality and past, made her go insane. Even if she had some mental quirks, she was still able to control herself.
> 
> 
> That unethical and ruthless behavior, not insanity.
> Saying that he needs to care is idealism. He was ambitious, grew up with certain kind of beliefs, was not idealistic and was able to get powerful. You may not like his actions, but that does not mean that he was insane.



No, they are signs of an antisocial/ histrionic and narcissitic personality disorder, respectively.   

People do care about other people; the fact that Ozai did not, at all, suggests he is a sociopath, and even where people don't and aren't, the fact that he did not care for the reasons that he did- namely, he's a complete egomaniac in the truest definition of the word- means he is crazy. Both Azula and Ozai went beyond being merely unethical and ruthless; even for the Fire Nation, they went to extremes others would not contemplate. Azula suggested burning the entire Earth Kingdom to the ground, and Ozai thought that was brilliant and wanted to do it himself. 

Insanity, personality disorders, are caused by a number of things, including upbringing, and both Ozai and Azula were affected by theirs. Having control of ones actions is not the defining point of sanity; it is the reason that you do one thing or another that matters, and what they lead you to do. Iroh and Zuko grew up in the same kind of environment as Azula and Ozai, were fed the same beliefs, but were always completely different people. Ozai and Azula had certain traits that, in a healthier background, might have come to nothing, but in the background they grew up in resulted in sociopaths. And sociopaths are, by definition, crazy.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

> His madness?
> 
> *So, he is crazy then?*
> 
> ...


Please don't play games with me.  :/

"his madness" as in his "evil" actions. No, it doesn't make him crazy, it makes him evil. There is a difference from "evil" and "insane". There are plenty of evil people who are perfectly sane. Their mind works fine etc etc they simply don't care what is right or wrong, they care for one thing and one thing only -- their goal.

He wanted to destroy the Earth Kingdom to establish himself as ruler over one nation, this was evil, but he was perfectly sane. LB & Nayrael said it perfectly:



			
				Nayrael said:
			
		

> During Season 2, Azula was sadistic, ruthless... but still sane. Events that happened later (mostly her getting betrayed by her only "friends") brought her to a mental breakdown which, mixed with her personality and past, made her go insane. Even if she had some mental quirks, she was still able to control herself.
> 
> Saying that he needs to care is idealism. He was ambitious, grew up with certain kind of beliefs, was not idealistic and was able to get powerful. You may not like his actions, but that does not mean that he was insane.





			
				LegendaryBeauty said:
			
		

> That does sound more like a lack of morality as opposed to sanity. They're talking about mental state and function, not a lack of conscience or remorse for actions.





			
				LegendaryBeauty said:
			
		

> I rather like the fact that Azula could only be overcome when she was already nerfed by her mental instability. While I'd have liked it to span out an episode or two more, *I think it was handled well as it was*.


I liked it as well. It really showed a lot behind her character. Its one of the best episodes, me thinks.



> 2. The suggestion that there is any value whatsoever to The Beach.


*Looks at sig*

The Beach has major value.


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## Dream Brother (Aug 4, 2011)

This debate sounds like you guys are working from different definitions...the line between sanity and insanity can be oddly vague, so maybe that should be clarified and agreed upon first? (Unless that has already been attempted.)


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> This debate sounds like you guys are working from different definitions...the line between sanity and insanity can be oddly vague, so maybe that should be clarified and agreed upon first? (Unless that has already been attempted.)



I believe I explained it in my first or second post.


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Please don't play games with me.  :/
> 
> "his madness" as in his "evil" actions. No, it doesn't make him crazy, it makes him evil. There is a difference from "evil" and "insane". There are plenty of evil people who are perfectly sane. Their mind works fine etc etc they simply don't care what is right or wrong, they care for one thing and one thing only -- their goal.
> 
> He wanted to destroy the Earth Kingdom to establish himself as ruler over one nation, this was evil, but he was perfectly sane. LB & Nayrael said it perfectly:





Terra Branford said:


> Please don't play games with me.  :/
> 
> "his madness" as in his "evil" actions. No, it doesn't make him crazy, it makes him evil. There is a difference from "evil" and "insane". There are plenty of evil people who are perfectly sane. Their mind works fine etc etc they simply don't care what is right or wrong, they care for one thing and one thing only -- their goal.
> 
> He wanted to destroy the Earth Kingdom to establish himself as ruler over one nation, this was evil, but he was perfectly sane. LB & Nayrael said it perfectly:



And I retorted.

Being evil in the first place is not perfectly sane at all. Their mind does not work fine because enjoying suffering, wanting or needing to dominate others, lacking compassion and empathy especially, are not signs of sanity. Not caring about right or wrong does not make you sane, and both Ozai and Azula anyway certainly did care because they both thought they were right, that they had the right, the Divine Right to rule and do as they pleased, and that they lived in a world where right is might. And they took that further than anyone, even other characters who believed in it.



Dream Brother said:


> This debate sounds like you guys are working from different definitions...the line between sanity and insanity can be oddly vague, so maybe that should be clarified and agreed upon first? (Unless that has already been attempted.)





Terra Branford said:


> I believe I explained it in my first or second post.



And I explained in some detail in two of my posts.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> And I retorted.
> 
> Being evil in the first place is not perfectly sane at all. Their mind does not work fine because *enjoying suffering, wanting or needing to dominate others, lacking compassion and empathy especially*, are not signs of sanity. Not caring about right or wrong does not make you sane, and both Ozai and Azula anyway certainly did care because they both thought they were right, that they had the right, the Divine Right to rule and do as they pleased, and that they lived in a world where right is might. And they took that further than anyone, even other characters who believed in it.
> 
> And I explained in some detail in two of my posts.



You can be evil and sane, Masamune. What you describe is just the actions of an evil person.

Azula was raised under one parent who was just pure evil, and this made her insane. She had a father who was teaching her the wrong things and a mother who tried to do different (but didn't really express her love *still sad-angry over that lol* enough to her) and this pulled at Azula's mental state.


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## Nayrael (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:
			
		

> I don't think you understand what insanity means. To be insane means you don't think, act and/ or behave like a normal person. In essence, anyone who is evil is also insane, since they don't think like normal people, they don't want what normal people want, and they don't have the same compunctions that normal people have.



Normal people by Modern standards you mean. Standards of the past are far more different.

And even people today are not so nice because they are sane. They are such for a reason... which in itself is their own profit.



> Obliterating an entire nation just to show off your power is not sane at all; its warped, its twisted, and its rooted in his delusions and mad worldview. Its like he barely accepts that other people even count as people. He's an unprincipled elitist narcissist; he honestly believes he's special and needs to keep proving it to himself, and he thinks that because he is special that puts him above the laws and customs of ordinary mortals.



What he did was extreme over any limit, but still not insane. It was extreme arrogance, but that is a consequence of his upbringing and beliefs, not insanity, no matter how wrong it is.
Obliterating an entire nation for no reason at all but just feeling a need to cause suffering would be closer to insanity.



> The fact that he didn't have an overt breakdown doesn't make him any less nuts, because that kind of breakdown isn't proof of nuttiness. Lots of crazy insane people go through their entire lives not having one of those- it doesn't make them less crazy; and just having a breakdown, even a massive one, doesn't mean you are crazy either.



Mental breakdown does not necessarily make you insane (many people even recover from it) but is quite often the start of it... like in Azula's case.



> But it doesn't really make her any more crazy than her dad. If anything her breakdown is evidence that she is _saner_, since it showed she was starting to see the world didn't work the way she thought it did, and that was what was driving her over the edge. Ozai was still stuck in his grandiose delusions even at the end; the fact that he was beaten by the Avatar didn't really threaten his worldview, and so he didn't have a breakdown (onscreen, anyway). He was more out of touch with reality than she was, and he didn't care about reality that much either. Thats why he didn't break down.



Being evil and feeling guilty about it can cause insanity.
Ozai not feeling guilty made him a wicked bastard, but it also helped him keep his sanity and thus he did not become an even worse person. And when I imagine an insane Ozai... the current one looks like an angel in comparison.


All in all, I do not consider Ozai to be anything else than just another normal conqueror most of the time. Sane people in history did more horrible things than Ozai ever did.


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> You can be evil and sane, Masamune. What you describe is just the actions of an evil person.
> 
> Azula was raised under one parent who was just pure evil, and this made her insane. She had a father who was teaching her the wrong things and a mother who tried to do different (but didn't really express her love *still sad-angry over that lol* enough to her) and this pulled at Azula's mental state.



What I described are not actions, they are personality traits. And they are traits of a sociopath, and sociopaths are not sane, least of all perfectly sane.

In point of fact, they are also traits that Azula has demonstrated, and has demonstrated more frequently than her father, though he demonstrated them and other problems. And for the record Ozai didn't seem to have a very pleasant father himself, so perhaps he turned out the way he did because he is so much like his daughter.

And its implied that Azula's mother did love her and expressed it- she is just paranoid, and deluded.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> What I described are not actions, they are personality traits. And they are traits of a sociopath, and sociopaths are not sane, least of all perfectly sane.
> 
> In point of fact, they are also traits that Azula has demonstrated, and has demonstrated more frequently than her father, though he demonstrated them and other problems. And for the record Ozai didn't seem to have a very pleasant father himself, so perhaps he turned out the way he did because he is so much like his daughter.
> 
> And its implied that Azula's mother did love her and expressed it- she is just paranoid, and deluded.



You described actions as well. I already made comments on the personality of his. 

Azula and Ozai have never done the same things, ever. As I explained, she did what her (currently) only parent told her to do, the only one she believed "loved" her. That kind of stress can make you insane, believe it or not.

Ozai had a terrible father too, but he didn't end up the way Azula did.

Yes, her mother loves her, but she should have expressed it more to the daughter she clearly saw had mental problems/problems.



masamune1 said:


> -- she is just paranoid, and deluded.


There you go; mental stability problems.


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## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 4, 2011)

I think her mother loved her, but did not show it blatantly enough. She spent most of her time with Zuko, she questioned "What is wrong with that child?" when Azula wasn't even out of earshot yet, and was rather rough with her handling of Azula when proclaiming they were going to have a talk, just when Azula was taunting her brother. Zuko imitates Azula and abuses the turtle ducks, and all Ursa has to say is that mothers are protective. It seemed there was a clear difference in handling of both Zuko and Azula when it came to Ursa's care.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> I think her mother loved her, but did not show it blatantly enough. She spent most of her time with Zuko, she questioned "What is wrong with that child?" when Azula wasn't even out of earshot yet, and was rather rough with her handling of Azula when proclaiming they were going to have a talk, just when Azula was taunting her brother. Zuko imitates Azula and abuses the turtle ducks, and all Ursa has to say is that mothers are protective. It seemed there was a clear difference in handling of both Zuko and Azula when it came to Ursa's care.



Exactly. Well put, LB 

She didn't show her love to Azula enough and this caused a strain on her mind. She only had her evil father to fall back on for some love etc etc. In the end, this caused her mental breakdown (cue seeing her mother and the love bit). Ozai is just evil.

*And that's one of the reasons why Azula is one of the most memorable characters ever xD*

**


----------



## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Nayrael said:


> Normal people by Modern standards you mean. Standards of the past are far more different.



Whether standards of the past, or standards of a fantasy series, neither Azula nor Ozai are normal. Few people in the _Avatar-_verse, and even most ordinary people the Gaang ran into in the Fire Nation, were anything like them, and even compared to the average Fire Nation imperialist loon, they are quick to jump on the most violent and mad solution. Though, that said, being raised in an insane environment might actually make you insane.

But no, I don't mean by modern standards, or any standard. Even accounting for all our different values and cultures and norms, most people around the globe and throughout history share the same basic traits, and madmen and psychopaths still stand out even in some of the most barbaric societies.



> And even people today are not so nice because they are sane. They are such for a reason... which in itself is their own profit.



The average person has at least some people who they are kind to for the sake of kindness; even the most cynical of them are not so self centred all the time. There is a clear, and well documented difference, between them and sociopaths and psychopaths, who feel little to no compassion or empathy whatsoever.



> What he did was extreme over any limit, but still not insane. It was extreme arrogance, but that is a consequence of his upbringing and beliefs, not insanity, no matter how wrong it is.
> Obliterating an entire nation for no reason at all but just feeling a need to cause suffering would be closer to insanity.



Yeah...he didn't really have much reason. He seemed to like Azula's idea mostly because it would allow him to revel in his power as the Phoenix King. He was living out a fantasy of godhood and megalomania.

But again, regardless, it is not merely a consequence of his upbringing or beliefs. Iroh, Zuko, even Azulon, none of them ever thought the way he or Azula did. It was Azula who suggested it and Ozai who thought it was great; his generals did not suggest it and seemed only to go along with it because they were sychophants (though they're probably not the sanest bunch either, they aren't as messed up as he is). His beliefs and outlook are different from nearly everyone else in the show.

Obliterating a nation for many reasons is generally a sign of insanity, and you're only describing extreme sadism, which if anything is one of the saner reasons out there (still mad, though).  



> Mental breakdown does not necessarily make you insane (many people even recover from it) but is quite often the start of it... like in Azula's case.



She was crazy before. Hell, even Iroh says it. 

Mental breakdown is not normally the start of it; whatever brought on the breakdown tends to be it. A mental breakdown is not neccesarily a sign of insanity but where it is, it is a symptom more often than a cause. The causes are underlying and led to it.



> Being evil and feeling guilty about it can cause insanity.
> 
> Ozai not feeling guilty made him a wicked bastard, but it also helped him keep his sanity and thus he did not become an even worse person. And when I imagine an insane Ozai... the current one looks like an angel in comparison.



Sorry, but being evil in the first place is not the sign of a sane person, and being evil and not feeling guilty about it- especially about stuff like genocide- makes you a psychopath. And being a psychopath means you are crazy.

You sound like you're confusing insanity with extreme emotional instability, like Azula at the end. Ozai was stone cold insane, a textbook ego- and megalomaniac.



> All in all, I do not consider Ozai to be anything else than just another normal conqueror most of the time. Sane people in history did more horrible things than Ozai ever did.



Normal conquerors aren't bastions of sanity themselves. And most of the people you are probably thinking of probably weren't either. The criteria for narcissistic, antisocial and sadistic personality disorders often used these same people as a guideline, and the fact that Ozai is a "normal" example of them only means that Ozai is your average egotistical, deluded, psychopathic genocidal lunatic.


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> You described actions as well. I already made comments on the personality of his.



The things you highlighted are personality traits.



> *Azula and Ozai have never done the same things, ever*. As I explained, she did what her (currently) only parent told her to do, the only one she believed "loved" her. That kind of stress can make you insane, believe it or not.



Now that is just plain wrong. Both mocked their older brothers as traitors and weaklings; both showed a callous disregard for the lives and welfare of others; both manipulated family members; both tried to crush the Earth Kingdom; both responded to perceived slights with appaling violence; both ate, slept, drank, liked to sit on big thrones....I could go on.

You are making excuses for her. You make it sound like she was far more conflicted about her personality than she was, that she didn't enjoy or wasn't comfortable with all that fighting, torturing, manipulating, conning, lying, cheating, stealing, and conquering. She acted on her own initiative on several occasions- hell on most occasions- and even conquered an entire nation because she saw an opportunity. 

It wasn't just because she thought that would make her father proud that she did all that, even if that was the root of it; Azula revelled in her power and her villainous ways,  thought hurting people and blowing stuff up was fun, and liked the challenge of hunting down the Avatar and attempting world domination. She has some redeeming traits, to be true, and some reasons for sympathy, but don't put all of her behaviour on her mother or her father. She knew what she was doing, and she liked it. 



> Ozai had a terrible father too, but he didn't end up the way Azula did.



The two of them are far more similar than you are willing to realise. The main difference is Azula is more of an attention seeker, while he is more of an egomaniac, but those differences are qualitative.



> Yes, her mother loves her, but she should have expressed it more to the daughter she clearly saw had mental problems/problems


.

Or she expressed it more often than Azula wants to admit, and more than we saw on-screen, as her hallucination at the end suggested.



> There you go; mental stability problems.



I never said she wasn't. I'm saying her dad is too.



LegendaryBeauty said:


> I think her mother loved her, but did not show it blatantly enough. She spent most of her time with Zuko, she questioned "What is wrong with that child?" when Azula wasn't even out of earshot yet, and was rather rough with her handling of Azula when proclaiming they were going to have a talk, just when Azula was taunting her brother. Zuko imitates Azula and abuses the turtle ducks, and all Ursa has to say is that mothers are protective. It seemed there was a clear difference in handling of both Zuko and Azula when it came to Ursa's care.





Terra Branford said:


> Exactly. Well put, LB
> 
> She didn't show her love to Azula enough and this caused a strain on her mind. She only had her evil father to fall back on for some love etc etc. In the end, this caused her mental breakdown (cue seeing her mother and the love bit). Ozai is just evil.



Ursa acted differently towards Azula because she was already showing signs of sadism (which means, you can't blame just her mum or dad), but again, that hallucination at the end hints that Azula was more loved than she let on. She just got more love (or rather, "love") and attention off of her dad by acting the way she did. 

The actual stressor for her mental breakdown was being betrayed by her two friends, though she thought they were her friends only because she forced them to be; which might be true, but she obviously is upset that she cared for them more than she realised, or perhaps she just thought fear was enough to make friends with and can take how wrong she was. That doesn't mean that strip away all that insecurity and stress about whether her mother loved her enough or not, she is suddenly going to be a great person. The fact that she scared her mother in the first place suggests that yeah, there is something wrong with her, and she had a bad streak from an early age.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Sorry, but being evil in the first place is not the sign of a sane person, and being evil and not feeling guilty about it- especially about stuff like genocide- makes you a psychopath. And being a psychopath means you are crazy.
> 
> You sound like you're confusing insanity with extreme emotional instability, like Azula at the end. Ozai was stone cold insane, a textbook ego- and megalomaniac.




But there are evil people who are perfectly sane -- they just don't care that its wrong. Azula thought the way she did because she was insane. Ozai did it because he just wanted to rule over people under one, united nation because he was evil.

Evil people can still calculate what they are doing as right and wrong etc, the difference is that they realize these things are "crazy" but they don't care.

Insane people (Azula) are led and raised believing its perfectly fine and nothing is wrong with it, their actions etc. And in Azula's case she had a parent who kept forcing it on her, twisting her delicate, *child* mind into (trying to at least) an evil mastermind like Ozai himself. She was torn between sanity (her mother, who barely showed her love) and insanity (her father, who showed some "care" to her), and in the end it torn her mind apart.

Ozai hasn't suffered any mental problems, or shown any sign of "insanity/craziness". He has shown he's perfectly capable of understanding situations as evil etc etc, he simply doesn't care.

But I suppose the argument will only continue for 5+ pages with no one agreeing with each or what not (like the past arguments xD), so maybe we should just end it here?


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> But there are evil people who are perfectly sane -- they just don't care that its wrong. Azula thought the way she did because she was insane. Ozai did it because he just wanted to rule over people under one, united nation because he was evil.
> 
> Evil people can still calculate what they are doing as right and wrong etc, the difference is that they realize these things are "crazy" but they don't care.
> 
> ...



Ozai has shown plenty of signs of insanity; he has never shown any sign that he thought what he was doing was wrong; both he and Azula _might_ acknowledge that others would see it as wrong buts thats another thing entirely; and not caring if something is wrong even if you recognise it as wrong actually sometimes is a symptom of madness.

And he never forced Azula into anything- he didn't care enough about her to do that. Yes, he probably helped guide her down a certain path, but she picked up the signs of what met his approval pretty early and acted accordingly, and on the evidence got pretty comfortable with it. Her breakdown at the end was due to her being an attention seeking sociopath who sudenly found that her friends wouldn't follow her even if she threatened them.

Recognising something is wrong is not straightforward issue; what matters for a sanity test is the reason you think something is wrong. Ozai didn't feel guilt, or empathy, or compassion or remorse, so he could never really to "get it", to really comprehend _why_ these things were so wrong in the first place, and so he'd have to base right and wrong on another premise- in his case, his inherent awesomeness, assuming he ever actually thought about the matter in the first place. Azula was no different.

And if you want to give up...go right ahead.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Ozai has shown plenty of signs of insanity; he has never shown any sign that he thought what he was doing was wrong; both he and Azula _might_ acknowledge that others would see it as wrong buts thats another thing entirely; and not caring if something is wrong even if you recognise it as wrong actually sometimes is a symptom of madness.
> 
> And he never forced Azula into anything- he didn't care enough about her to do that. Yes, he probably helped guide her down a certain path, but she picked up the signs of what met his approval pretty early and acted accordingly, and on the evidence got pretty comfortable with it. Her breakdown at the end was due to her being an attention seeking sociopath who sudenly found that her friends wouldn't follow her even if she threatened them.



No he hasn't. He's shown signs of evil. You are assuming evil = automatic insanity. Think about the cases in real life. When someone is mentally insane, they aren't sentenced the same away a sane evil person is. 



masamune1 said:


> Recognising something is wrong is not straightforward issue; what matters for a sanity test is the reason you think something is wrong. *Ozai didn't feel guilt, or empathy, or compassion or remorse, so he could never really to "get it",* to really comprehend _why_ these things were so wrong in the first place, and so he'd have to base right and wrong on another premise- in his case, his inherent awesomeness, assuming he ever actually thought about the matter in the first place. Azula was no different.



Again, you're describing evil, not insanity. 

Loads of people don't feel compassion for others or even remorse for their actions, and they are perfectly sane -- just friggin mean or friggin' evil.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Azula and Ozai are completely different. You cannot compare the two.



masamune1 said:


> And if you want to give up...go right ahead.



Wow, someone is taking this way too seriously.


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No he hasn't. He's shown signs of evil. You are assuming evil = automatic insanity. Think about the cases in real life. When someone is mentally insane, they aren't sentenced the same away a sane evil person is.



Many people who would be considered legally insane in some countries, and in come courts, are found to be legally sane, and others are not. Psychopathy, for instance, is grounds for incarceration in a mental institution in the UK, but not in America (or less so, anyway) even though both regard psychopathy as a mental illness.

You say think about cases in real life; thing is, I actually _do_ know about cases in real life, and when you compare them to each other they can seem kind of arbitary. Whether or not someone ends up in an asylum or a prison can depend on the lawyers, the juries, the prosecutor, the judge, the country etc. Since they are such extreme cases, they are hard to set hard rules by, especially since, in either case, you might end up locked away forever.



> Again, you're describing evil, not insanity.



No, I'm describing a sociopath, which I've said time and again, and which is actually a type of crazy person. This is the actual defintion of that word- someone who lacks empathy, guilt or remorse.



> Loads of people don't feel compassion for others or even remorse for their actions, and they are perfectly sane -- just friggin mean or friggin' evil.



They are not "perfectly sane". Even if they are not stark raving mad, being "friggin mean or friggin evil" does itself mean that there is something wrong with you, and you are far from normal (which is what sane basically means).

Azula and Ozai go beyond that- they actually _can't_ feel compassion or remorse, which generally means they have personality disorders, of which there is more than enough evidence.



> Sorry, but you're wrong. Azula and Ozai are completely different. You cannot compare the two.



Can, did, backed it u.



> Wow, someone is taking this way too seriously.



No, I was making a joke.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> *Many people who would be considered legally insane in some countries, and in come courts, are found to be legally sane, and others are not.* Psychopathy, for instance, is grounds for incarceration in a mental institution in the UK, but not in America (or less so, anyway) even though both regard psychopathy as a mental illness.
> 
> You say think about cases in real life; thing is, I actually _do_ know about cases in real life, and when you compare them to each other they can seem kind of arbitary. Whether or not someone ends up in an asylum or a prison can depend on the lawyers, the juries, the prosecutor, the judge, the country etc. Since they are such extreme cases, they are hard to set hard rules by, especially since, in either case, you might end up locked away forever.



There you go. Insanity is different than "evil".

It doesn't matter whether or not you're locked up for life, the differences between insanity and evil *still exists* and is *still present in the cases*, no matter how rare the cases are.

Insane people can still get locked up, so what differences does it make for you to bring that up? Its not like it changes their mental status depending on if they are locked up forever or not.



masamune1 said:


> No, I'm describing a sociopath, which I've said time and again, and which is actually a type of crazy person. This is the actual defintion of that word- someone who lacks empathy, guilt or remorse.



Yes, you "said" you are describing a sociopath, but that doesn't mean you actually are.

Again, you are assuming all evil people = insane people, when its wrong to say.

When Ozai sees the father he had murdered in a mirror, than you can claim he's insane too and not just evil. Until then, he's just that -- evil.



masamune1 said:


> They are not "perfectly sane". Even if they are not stark raving mad, being "friggin mean or friggin evil" does itself mean that there is something wrong with you, and you are far from normal (which is what sane basically means).
> 
> Azula and Ozai go beyond that- they actually _can't_ feel compassion or remorse, which generally means they have personality disorders, of which there is more than enough evidence.



No, not really. Unless you want to say some of the NFers (or even millions of other perfectly sane people in the world) who don't really show compassion (not caring much etc etc) in some cases are insane/a sociopath? There is a fine that separates insane and evil.

This is just why insane people are charged differently from others -- because being "insane" and "evil" are different.



masamune1 said:


> Can, did, backed it u.



No, you really didn't.



masamune1 said:


> No, I was making a joke.


You should work on your jokes then because that was pretty terrible. :/


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## Glued (Aug 4, 2011)

To Terra Branford this is definition of psychopath

psychopath (plural psychopaths)
1)A person with a personality disorder indicated by a pattern of lying, cunning, manipulating, glibness, exploiting, heedlessness, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, sexual promiscuity, low self-control, disregard for morality, lack of acceptance of responsibility, callousness, and lack of empathy and remorse. Such an individual may be especially prone to violent and criminal offenses.
2)A person diagnosed with antisocial or dissocial personality disorder.
3) A person who has no moral conscience.
4) A person who perpetrates especially gruesome or bizarre violent acts.

Do any of these fit ozai or azula


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## DemonDragonJ (Aug 4, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I see two things over the last page that are displeasing:
> 
> 
> 1. The suggestion that Azula's breakdown was unnecessary
> ...



First, I said that Azula's mental breakdown was regrettable, not that it was unnecessary, as it was indeed an example of excellent writing.

Second, you are entitled to have your opinion of that episode, but I shall ask that you allow me to have my opinion of it, as I believe that it provided much excellent development for Zuko, Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee (what name can be used to refer to all four of them?).

Third, I really like the discussion that is being held over Azula and Ozai's psychological conditions, as the fact that such discussions are being held is evidence, for me, of how deep and intricate this series and its characters are (or, if not that, how devoted the series' fans are).


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## masamune1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> There you go. Insanity is different than "evil".
> 
> It doesn't matter whether or not you're locked up for life, the differences between insanity and evil *still exists* and is *still present in the cases*, no matter how rare the cases are.
> 
> Insane people can still get locked up, so what differences does it make for you to bring that up? Its not like it changes their mental status depending on if they are locked up forever or not.



I was saying that many people who are locked up in prison are legally insane and somewhere else would be put in an asylum; these people I'm talking about are psychopaths and are insane because of their lack of empathy and remorse.

And I was never saying that evil means you are legally insane; I was sane that it means you are absolutely not _perfectly_ sane. Being evil means, in one way or another, you are at least a little bit crazy.




> Yes, you "said" you are describing a sociopath, but that doesn't mean you actually are.
> 
> Again, you are assuming all evil people = insane people, when its wrong to say.
> 
> When Ozai sees the father he had murdered in a mirror, than you can claim he's insane too and not just evil. Until then, he's just that -- evil.



I'm not "saying" I'm describing a sociopath; I *am* describing a sociopath. I've got a textbook on the subject right here; you can google it and everything. How the heck would _you_ describe a sociopath? 

You seem to be confusing insanity for mental illness (yeah, they aren't the same thing either); hallucinations don't make someone insane, and not having them doesn't mean you _aren't_ insane.



> No, not really. Unless you want to say some of the NFers (or even millions of other perfectly sane people in the world) who don't really show compassion (not caring much etc etc) in some cases are insane/a sociopath? There is a fine that separates insane and evil.
> 
> This is just why insane people are charged differently from others -- because being "insane" and "evil" are different.



Except there are plenty of cases where they aren't.

And yeah, there might actually be NF'ers who are insane, or sociopaths (wouldn't surprise me at all, to be frank). That wouldn't be controversial at all.  And no, there is no fine line- its rather blurry.

There is plenty of evidence. I've mentioned it several times, and you have failed to back up your claims. Ozai and Azula meet the criteria for sociopathy.



> No, you really didn't.



Yes, I really did. I'd like to know why I didn't. You said Azula and Ozai had never done the same things, and I listed a whole bunch of things both of them had done. I'd say that counts as a comparison.

You should work on your jokes then because that was pretty terrible. :/[/QUOTE]

Well then I'm sorry.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> To Terra Branford this is definition of psychopath
> 
> psychopath (plural psychopaths)
> 1)A person with a personality disorder indicated by a pattern of lying, cunning, manipulating, glibness, exploiting, heedlessness, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, sexual promiscuity, low self-control, disregard for morality, lack of acceptance of responsibility, callousness, and lack of empathy and remorse. Such an individual may be especially prone to violent and criminal offenses.
> ...



Actually, Azula and Ozai did exhibit some of those traits: specifically, lying, cunning, manipulation, exploitation, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, disregard for morality, lack of empathy and remorse, and the committing of gruesome acts of violence.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> To Terra Branford this is definition of psychopath
> 
> psychopath (plural psychopaths)
> 1)A person with a personality disorder indicated by a pattern of lying, cunning, manipulating, glibness, exploiting, heedlessness, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, sexual promiscuity, low self-control, disregard for morality, lack of acceptance of responsibility, callousness, and lack of empathy and remorse. Such an individual may be especially prone to violent and criminal offenses.
> ...



I'm quiet aware of the definition of psychopath, Ben Grim. It doesn't change the fact that Ozai and Azula's conditions are very much different and that Azula is mentally insane. More than one episode or instance proves it, while the whole series just shows Ozai's evil.

Again:


> Again, you are assuming all evil people = insane people, when its wrong to say.
> 
> No, not really. Unless you want to say some of the NFers (or even millions of other perfectly sane people in the world) who don't really show compassion (not caring much etc etc) in some cases are insane/a sociopath? There is a fine that separates insane and evil.
> 
> This is just why insane people are charged differently from others -- because being "insane" and "evil" are different.



I can assure you there are people who simply don't give a shit about others, on this forum and off. Will you say they are all psychopaths simply because they don't care?



> I was saying that many people who are locked up in prison are legally insane and somewhere else would be put in an asylum; these people I'm talking about are psychopaths and are insane because of their lack of empathy and remorse.
> 
> And I was never saying that evil means you are legally insane; I was sane that it means you are absolutely not perfectly sane. Being evil means, in one way or another, you are at least a little bit crazy.



They are still deemed insane though. An insane person acts they way they act not because they don't care, but because their mental state cannot help it. For example, being raised under what Azula was raised under.

An evil person is someone who just doesn't care that what they are doing is wrong and therefore will not /cannot have remorse, guilty etc etc.

Don't mix me up though -- an insane person still does "evil" things, but its only because they are "insane". The differences between Ozai and Azula really shows this.



> I'm not "saying" I'm describing a sociopath; I am describing a sociopath. I've got a textbook on the subject right here; you can google it and everything. How the heck would you describe a sociopath?
> 
> You seem to be confusing insanity for mental illness (yeah, they aren't the same thing either); hallucinations don't make someone insane, and not having them doesn't mean you aren't insane.



Sociopath/insanity does not fit with Ozai. Read above.

No, it doesn't make you insane and not having doesn't mean you aren't insane, but it sure as hell shows how mentally insane Azula is. It itself doesn't prove it, but piled on with everything else does.



> Yes, I really did. I'd like to know why I didn't. You said Azula and Ozai had never done the same things, and I listed a whole bunch of things both of them had done. I'd say that counts as a comparison.
> 
> Well then I'm sorry.


They have both done evil, yes. No one has ever denied this, but I clearly said they haven't done the SAME thing and that you cannot compare the two to each other. Mentally insane people can still commit evil of course, but why it happens is what separates "insane" from "evil".

Because the instances you brought and the descriptions of Ozai you brought, are actions of an evil man and evil mindset not brought on by insanity.


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## Ms. Jove (Aug 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, I said that Azula's mental breakdown was regrettable, not that it was unnecessary



Oh really?



DemonDragonJ said:


> Since I have mentioned both Azula and Ozai, I wish to ask a question. I understand that Azula and Ozai were villains, and, therefore, they needed to be defeated, *but was it really necessary*, from an out-of-universe perspective, for them to be broken mentally? I do not at all have a problem with them being defeated and their plans ruined, but I believe that no person, regardless of what deeds they have committed, should experience such indignity and humiliation. Does anyone else agree with me on this subject?


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## Glued (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> *I'm quiet aware of the definition of psychopath, Ben Grim.* It doesn't change the fact that Ozai and Azula's conditions are very much different and that Azula is mentally insane. More than one episode or instance proves it, while the whole series just shows Ozai's evil.
> 
> .



Then you are aware that Ozai shares many of the traits that a psychopath possesses.


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## Jena (Aug 4, 2011)

There are a lot of LAPs in here that I just honestly don't feel like reading, but I'd like to point out that just because a person has traits that match a mental disorder does not mean that the person _has_ said mental disorder.

Carry on.


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## Mider T (Aug 4, 2011)

I guess with Ben Grimm, people can't just be evil anymore, everyone has to have a psychological problem.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Then you are aware that Ozai shares many of the traits that a psychopath possesses.



As we all have stated, time and time again. What you and masamune1 aren't understanding is that they are different in case, person, mindset and situations and feelings.

You shouldn't classify one case based on another simply because you see some things that point toward the other direction.

_"Well he appears to be insane in some of his actions, so he's insane."_

Not how it works. Which leaves me to ask once more;



> Again, you are assuming all evil people = insane people, when its wrong to say.
> 
> No, not really. Unless you want to say some of the NFers (or even millions of other perfectly sane people in the world) who don't really show compassion (not caring much etc etc) in some cases are insane/a sociopath? There is a fine that separates insane and evil.
> 
> ...



Just before this goes any further I should probably state why I feel there is a difference or rather why I know there is a difference and where to look to see if someone is or isn't insane. My aunt suffered a mental breakdown years ago much similar to Azula's (she didn't firebend of course! lol) because of the actions and mindset of her ex-husband. I was explained her mentality status by specialists a lot, and have had my father (her brother) tell me about it as well. With that knowledge behind me, I can safely say Azula is insane and Ozai isn't based on their character, actions, differences, situations and individual feelings that separate their actions. But then again, I don't have a masters in this, I just know from experience....

What you guys are implying is that there cannot be evil as they are just mentally insane. This is illogical and incorrect.


----------



## Wan (Aug 4, 2011)

I would say that in order to be a "believable" villain (and since post-modernism has sunk down all the way to children's cartoons, even cartoon villains need to be "believable") a villain must either have not-quite-evil reasons to do what he does or not-quite-sane reasons.  One of the two, and being evil for evil's sake counts as one of the latter.  I would tend to say that both Azula and Ozai leaned toward the not-quite-sane side even before Azula's breakdown.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 4, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Oh really?



Two can play that game, Jove. 

I was asking *if* it was necessary for Azula to become psychologically unstable, not stating that it *was* unnecessary.


----------



## Glued (Aug 4, 2011)

Mider T said:


> I guess with Ben Grimm, people can't just be evil anymore, everyone has to have a psychological problem.



Xanatos was evil, Darkseid was evil, but Ozai not really.

The guy just seemed to live off delusions of grandeur especially with the whole Phoenix King schtick. He showed no remorse to maiming his own son for life. He doesn't even seem to understand that what he did to Zuko was cruel. To him, he was just making Zuko stronger.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> The guy just seemed to live off delusions of grandeur especially with the whole Phoenix King schtick. He showed no remorse to maiming his own son for life. He doesn't even seem to understand that what he did to Zuko was cruel. To him, he was just making Zuko stronger.



In my mind, that is quite evil; no good person would torment their child in such a manner, regardless of what reason they had for doing so. And what about Ozai burning the land below him with a grin of sadistic glee during the arrival of Sozin's Comet? He seemed to be enjoying the prospect of killing countless people by burning them into blackened corpses, which is definitely evil by the standards of most people whom I have met.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm just gonna drop my 2 cents on this matter on whether Ozai was a psycho or was inherently evil.

From what I see, it wasn't evil in his point of view. He had a hundred-year legacy to uphold; that is the Fire Nation's superiority over the world. It just so happened the final blow was in his time, Sozin's Comet, and he was determined to see it to the end. Evil to many, yes, but in his point of view it wasn't. He was raised with that kind of mentality, a day with the Avatar isn't gonna fix 50+ years of his life conditioned to kill and mistreat non-Fire Nation inhabitants of the world.

So I guess it all boils down on how the person was raised.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> *Xanatos was evil, Darkseid was evil, *but Ozai not really.
> 
> The guy just seemed to live off delusions of grandeur especially with the whole Phoenix King schtick. He showed no remorse to maiming his own son for life. He doesn't even seem to understand that what he did to Zuko was cruel. To him, he was just making Zuko stronger.



But according to you and masamune1 they are just mentally insane not evil. Therefore, evil cannot exist as they are all mentally insane. Right...? >.<

He didn't see it as cruel _because_ he thought it made Zuko stronger, not because he thought the action *itself wasn't cruel*. He wouldn't have thought it wasn't cruel if there wasn't something he thought that canceled it out after, in this example making Zuko "stronger". The end justifies the means (to Ozai).

Those aren't the actions of an insane person, but rather an evil man.

EDIT:



Jena said:


> There are a lot of LAPs in here that I just honestly don't feel like reading, but I'd like to point out that just because a person has traits that match a mental disorder does not mean that the person _has_ said mental disorder.
> 
> Carry on.




Exactly! Thank you very much!

Its like diagnosing a sick person in the hospital. "Oh look, they have symptoms of *insert illness here*, that means they have it."


----------



## Glued (Aug 4, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> But according to you and masamune1 they are just mentally insane not evil. Therefore, evil cannot exist as they are all mentally insane. Right...? >.<
> 
> He didn't see it as cruel _because_ he thought it made Zuko stronger, not because he thought the action *itself wasn't cruel*. He wouldn't have thought it wasn't cruel if there wasn't something he thought that canceled it out after, in this example making Zuko "stronger". The end justifies the means (to Ozai).
> 
> Those aren't the actions of an insane person, but rather an evil man.



Not really, Darkseid knows how he treats Kalibak is cruel. He is cruel for cruelty's sake. He takes pot shots at Orion, knowing that Orion is disgusted at being the biological son of Darkseid. When he beats Orion down, he even smiles, "Spare the rod." Darkseid looks at Superman and tells him, "Had I known that the death of one human would pain you so, I would have killed more." He murdered Dan Turpin in front of Superman for no apparent reason other than making Superman feel bad."

Xanatos in all his machiavellan scheming just wants to make more money, ruin his competition and manipulate those around him. Xanatos can actually feel remorse and regret, but he still does what he does. For example when his father hands him a coin saying, "its all you ever cared about."

Ozai just seemed like a nut.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 4, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Not really, Darkseid knows how he treats Kalibak is cruel. He is cruel for cruelty's sake. He takes pot shots at Orion, knowing that Orion is disgusted at being the biological son of Darkseid. When he beats Orion down, he even smiles, "Spare the rod." Darkseid looks at Superman and tells him, "Had I known that the death of one human would pain you so, I would have killed more." He murdered Dan Turpin in front of Superman for no apparent reason other than making Superman feel bad."
> 
> Xanatos in all his machiavellan scheming just wants to make more money, ruin his competition and manipulate those around him. Xanatos can actually feel remorse and regret, but he still does what he does. For example when his father hands him a coin saying, "its all you ever cared about."
> 
> Ozai just seemed like a nut.



No, the argument you and masamune1 are presenting isn't a two way street. It is either "evil" or "insane". With your argument, they both cannot exist but rather are the same. Ozai knows his actions are evil, he doesn't care. But you two think he's mentally insane because he shares a few traits of the definition of a word.

Ozai does what he does simply because he wants (to rule, actually) too just as those two villas. If this isn't evil yet the actions of Xanatos and what's his name from Superman are, then you should know that your argument doesn't work that way.

"Seemed" isn't "definite". What's definite is that Ozai is evil on his actions, not insane. What's definite is that Azula is insane, not evil.


----------



## Glued (Aug 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No, the argument you and masamune1 are presenting isn't a two way street. It is either "evil" or "insane". With your argument, they both cannot exist but rather are the same. Ozai knows his actions are evil, he doesn't care. But you two think he's mentally insane because he shares a few traits of the definition of a word.
> 
> Ozai does what he does simply because he wants (to rule, actually) too just as those two villas. If this isn't evil yet the actions of Xanatos and what's his name from Superman are, then you should know that your argument doesn't work that way.
> 
> "Seemed" isn't "definite". What's definite is that Ozai is evil on his actions, not insane. What's definite is that Azula is insane, not evil.



A psychopath doesn't have remorse or conscience. At what point does Ozai even regret what he has done. As I have said before, Ozai does not seem to even be aware that challenging a child to an Agni Kai was cruel whereas Xanatos stated to Fox that both of them couldn't really have an emotion such as love. Xanatos is aware that what he is doing is despicable and when Goliath saves his son, Xanatos actually feels shame because he knows that Goliath is a better man than him. Ozai does not seem capable of any tender emotion.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> A psychopath is doesn't have remorse or conscience. *At what point does Ozai even regret what he has done.* As I have said before, Ozai does not seem to even be aware that challenging a child to an Agni Kai was cruel whereas Xanatos stated to Fox that both of them couldn't really have an emotion such as love. Xanatos is aware that what he is doing is despicable and when Goliath saves his son, Xanatos actually feels shame because he knows that Goliath is a better man than him. Ozai does not seem capable of any tender emotion.



Ozai doesn't regret what he has done, where did you read me saying he does? 

I wouldn't say he doesn't have emotion persay, rather he cares more for himself and his goals than others -- aka, he is evil not insane.


----------



## Glued (Aug 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Ozai doesn't regret what he has done, where did you read me saying he does?
> 
> I wouldn't say he doesn't have emotion persay, rather he cares more for himself and his goals than others -- aka, he is evil not insane.



Regret is related to remorse or having a conscience, something Ozai lacks.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Regret is related to remorse or having a conscience, *something Ozai lacks*.



Which means he's just evil, not insane. Once more, Azula and Ozai are completely different. Though they have both done evil actions, each have difference to them.

Ozai didn't regret because he didn't care it was evil. He wanted to do it because he WANTED it.

Azula did what she did because of the life she grew up in, because she is mentally insane.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 5, 2011)

Have they already shown clips for the new Avatar series yet?


----------



## Glued (Aug 5, 2011)

He did it because he wanted Zuko to become strong and teach him a lesson.

True evil would be Darkseid shooting Orion with a time traveling radion bullet.

Ozai's intent was to make Zuko stronger, not cruelty for its own sake.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

Heloves said:


> Have they already shown clips for the new Avatar series yet?



link



Ben Grimm said:


> He did it because he wanted Zuko to become strong and teach him a lesson.
> 
> True evil would be Darkseid shooting Orion with a time traveling radion bullet.
> 
> Ozai's intent was to make Zuko stronger, not cruelty for its own sake.



His actions were still evil. Evil can still have emotions, as stated early. Hitler still loved his mama, and he was evil. :/


----------



## Burke (Aug 5, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Two can play that game, Jove.
> 
> I was asking *if* it was necessary for Azula to become psychologically unstable, not stating that it *was* unnecessary.



Just like how i question whether or not DDJ knows what hes talking about.
Im not saying that you DONT know what your talking about.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 5, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I see two things over the last page that are displeasing:
> 
> 1. The suggestion that Azula's breakdown was unnecessary
> 
> ...


Their use of "insane/-ity" doesn't displease or bother you?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Their use of "insane/-ity" doesn't displease or bother you?



What's displeasing about it if I may ask...?


----------



## Heloves (Aug 5, 2011)

can I say ..I am in love with Korra? pek..she's too bad ass 

but I will miss Aang, Toph, Sokka, Momo ... and Uncle


----------



## Wan (Aug 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> link



For future notice, that trailer is accelerated and the audio's high-pitched.  You may want to be sure to post sound-corrected trailers in the future.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 5, 2011)

I love Toph and Uncle, too. But! Their time has come and passed. Time for a new Avatar and new supporting characters to debut.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

Oman said:


> For future notice, that trailer is accelerated and the audio's high-pitched.  You may want to be sure to post sound-corrected trailers in the future.



Yes, but its the highest quality I could find and has a less likely chance of being taken down. Plus, they could also look to the right and click a different version 



> can I say ..I am in love with Korra? ..she's too bad ass
> 
> but I will miss Aang, Toph, Sokka, Momo ... and Uncle


You are probably in love with Korra.

By reading your post, no one will ever replace Toph in your heart. 

**


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 5, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Their use of "insane/-ity" doesn't displease or bother you?



No, that's one of the few old-time arguments I'm just not interested in revisiting. Let them figure it out.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Yes, but its the highest quality I could find and has a less likely chance of being taken down. Plus, they could also look to the right and click a different version
> 
> 
> You are probably in love with Korra.
> ...



 Toph was awesome ..she was tough, mastered Earth and metal bending... I really will miss her ....


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

Heloves said:


> Toph was awesome ..she was tough, mastered Earth and metal bending... I really will miss her ....



That's how it is for everyone, even if they aren't open about their love for Toph.


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## Heloves (Aug 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> That's how it is for everyone, even if they aren't open about their love for Toph.



 ... true that


----------



## masamune1 (Aug 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I'm quiet aware of the definition of psychopath, Ben Grim. It doesn't change the fact that Ozai and Azula's conditions are very much different and that Azula is mentally insane. More than one episode or instance proves it, while the whole series just shows Ozai's evil.



You keep saying they are quite different, but you don't actually offer any evidence. You just keep saying it over and over again, and sidestep the  arguments.



> I can assure you there are people who simply don't give a shit about others, on this forum and off. Will you say they are all psychopaths simply because they don't care?



Probably a few might be (1 in 20 people are supposed to be psychopaths); others might have psychopathic traits. Who is and who isn't depends on the extent that they don't give a shit about others- if off the board they are plotting genocide, I'd say that yes, they are psychopaths.



> They are still deemed insane though. An insane person acts they way they act not because they don't care, but because their mental state cannot help it. For example, being raised under what Azula was raised under.
> 
> An evil person is someone who just doesn't care that what they are doing is wrong and therefore will not /cannot have remorse, guilty etc etc.



Insanity is a broad term reffering to abnormal patterns of thought and behaviour. It doesn't have to mean that a person is not in control of his or her actions. Someone who is incapable of caring, remorse, guilt or the rest is by definition a sociopath, and for Ozai to avoid that classification, you'd have to actually show that he _can_ care or feel guilt.

Good luck with that. 



> Don't mix me up though -- an insane person still does "evil" things, but its only because they are "insane". The differences between Ozai and Azula really shows this.



You keep repeating that there are differences between Azula and Ozai, but you aren't explaining what they are. It sounds more like you are saying you can't compare the two of them because they are two different people; the fact that Ozai had a different childhood from Azula is not grounds to say that she is insane and he isn't. 



> Sociopath/insanity does not fit with Ozai. Read above


.

It does. It very blatantly does. You haven't done a thing to show that it doesn't, except to keep saying that Ozai is evil.

Which isn't going to work on me, since I keep arguing that evil is a kind of madness.



> No, it doesn't make you insane and not having doesn't mean you aren't insane, but it sure as hell shows how mentally insane Azula is. It itself doesn't prove it, but piled on with everything else does.



And everything else _also_ shows that she is a sociopath. Take away her hallucinations and her mental breakdown (which, from what I saw, was brought on by her simply being very, very pissed off, and paranoid), and she is still a sociopath. Add them on, and she is simply an unstable sociopath.



> They have both done evil, yes. No one has ever denied this, but I clearly said they haven't done the SAME thing and that you cannot compare the two to each other. Mentally insane people can still commit evil of course, but why it happens is what separates "insane" from "evil".
> 
> Because the instances you brought and the descriptions of Ozai you brought, are actions of an evil man and evil mindset not brought on by insanity.



But they _have_ done the same thing, over and over again, and I _did_ compare the two, quite easily. You are trying to excuse Azula simply because of who her father is, even though Ozai himself didn't exactly have a particularly brilliant father either. 

You even go so far to say that Ozai is the way he is because of the way he was raised, because of the of the thoughts and beliefs that were drilled into his head. That makes him just like Azula, even if the way he was raised was slightly different; but apparently, she is insane, and he isn't.

Evil is as vague and broad a term as insanity, but by the definition of insanity, evil people are often crazy, or at the very least far from being "perfectly sane".  Even if the aren't locked up in a mental hospital, that doesn't mean society considers them 100% normal or mentally healthy. Whats really getting at me isn't that you think Ozai isn't crazy, its that you think he isn't even a _little_ crazy, despite the fact that that he is....._Ozai._



Jena said:


> There are a lot of LAPs in here that I just honestly don't feel like reading, but I'd like to point out that just because a person has traits that match a mental disorder does not mean that the person _has_ said mental disorder.
> 
> Carry on.



Actually, it goes quite a ways to suggesting that they do.

The mere fact that Ozai and Azula are ruthless, sadistic and egotistical as they are is grounds to think that they have a personality disorder or three. 



Terra Branford said:


> As we all have stated, time and time again. What you and masamune1 aren't understanding is that they are different in case, person, mindset and situations and feelings.



I understand that perfectly. It doesn't mean that one of them is insane, and the other one isn't. _Everyone_ is different in case, person, mindset, situation and feelings; that doesn't mean that there is only one insane person in the world and that doesn't mean that Ozai and Azula still don't have a lot in common.



> You shouldn't classify one case based on another simply because you see some things that point toward the other direction.
> 
> _"Well he appears to be insane in some of his actions, so he's insane."_
> 
> Not how it works. Which leaves me to ask once more;



Since I'm saying that he appears to be insane in nearly _all_ of his actions, and since I'm seeing next to nothing that contradicts what I'm saying-and despite what you think, you haven't presented anything, just posted the same lines over and over again without addressing my issues- this isn't really applicable.

What seems silly to me is that you acknowledge that both Azula and Ozai on paper demonstrate the characteristics of a sociopath- the onus then is on you to prove that they aren't, but you haven't done that. You just keep saying that despite the fact they _appear_ to be sociopaths, they aren't, without explaining why.



> Just before this goes any further I should probably state why I feel there is a difference or rather why I know there is a difference and where to look to see if someone is or isn't insane. My aunt suffered a mental breakdown years ago much similar to Azula's (she didn't firebend of course! lol) because of the actions and mindset of her ex-husband. I was explained her mentality status by specialists a lot, and have had my father (her brother) tell me about it as well. With that knowledge behind me, I can safely say Azula is insane and Ozai isn't based on their character, actions, differences, situations and individual feelings that separate their actions. But then again, I don't have a masters in this, I just know from experience....
> 
> You don't "know" from experience at all. You are basing your observations on a single case, and comparing them rather badly since I'm guessing your aunt didn't nearly kill her friends to get her to follow them; mock her brother when she heard that he was going to be killed by their dad; burn down buildings; enforce an imperialist tyranny; manipulate near on everyone she came across, etc. She wasn't, in other words, a cartoon supervillain, or so I assume.
> 
> ...


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 5, 2011)

Heloves said:


> can I say ..I am in love with Korra? pek..she's too bad ass



It's all good, we are all Korrasexuals here.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 5, 2011)

Speak for yourself.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Part 1.



masamune1 said:


> You keep saying they are quite different, but you don't actually offer any evidence. You just keep saying it over and over again, and sidestep the  arguments.



The show itself showed the difference. The show is my evidence. 

Ozai and Azula have never acted the same. The only part you can say they wanted the same was in ONE instance where she (remember, final season she has snapped) recommended what to do to the Earth Kingdom.

You never once see in the series were they are similar other than they both work on the same side!



masamune1 said:


> Probably a few might be (1 in 20 people are supposed to be psychopaths); others might have psychopathic traits. Who is and who isn't depends on the extent that they don't give a shit about others- if off the board they are plotting genocide, I'd say that yes, they are psychopaths.



No, you and Ben clearly are making Ozai a psychopath because he shows traits of the word. Now going by your logic, that means that ALL the people on this board who show similar traits to that word, are psychopaths. But therein you said it yourself -- "others might have *psychopathic traits*." In which Ozai showed traits. This doesn't mean he is insane, just evil.

You cannot make him mentally insane simply because he shows some traits of it. What you are saying is simply illogical. 



masamune1 said:


> Insanity is a broad term reffering to abnormal patterns of thought and behaviour. It doesn't have to mean that a person is not in control of his or her actions. Someone who is incapable of caring, remorse, guilt or the rest is by definition a sociopath, and for Ozai to avoid that classification, you'd have to actually show that he _can_ care or feel guilt.
> 
> Good luck with that.



I know what the word means and I know it doesn't mean they HAVE to have control of their actions. You're not grasping that all these things have happened to Azula -- all these symptoms and signs of mentally insane people -- has occurred to Azula further backing is mentally insane and not evil.

All you have to claim Ozai is mentally insane is that he shares a few traits of a word. But he has never showed psychical, emotional or any other sign in the show, that he is mentally insane. If he had, then it would "add on" to his evil actions the way it has for Azula, indicating and showing he is mentally instable.

He's showed he comprehends its wrong, he just doesn't care. He's shown he is mentally capable as well.

Evidence: watch the last season, at least the last few episodes.



masamune1 said:


> You keep repeating that there are differences between Azula and Ozai, but you aren't explaining what they are. It sounds more like you are saying you can't compare the two of them because they are two different people; the fact that Ozai had a different childhood from Azula is not grounds to say that she is insane and he isn't.



Read above.

Ozai and Azula are completely different. The key example is that she suffered from her mental breakdown and he didn't. That's a pretty big example of their difference.

Unless you honestly think they are the same in character. lol



masamune1 said:


> It does. It very blatantly does. You haven't done a thing to show that it doesn't, except to keep saying that Ozai is evil.
> 
> Which isn't going to work on me, since I keep arguing that evil is a kind of madness.



I have given you the differences between evil and insane and even gave examples of such. I have provided (Key example the prosecution of mentally insane and the ones they consider just "evil".), you have refused to accept it.

Sorry, logically your argument makes no sense. Insane and evil are different!



masamune1 said:


> *And everything else also shows that she is a sociopath. *



She is mentally insane, yes, we know that. 



masamune1 said:


> Take away her hallucinations and her mental breakdown *(which, from what I saw, was brought on by her simply being very, very pissed off, and paranoid)*, and she is still a sociopath. Add them on, and she is simply an unstable sociopath.



You obviously need to rewatch the episode. It wasn't brought on because she was pissed off nor was it brought on because she was "paranoid". She was "pissed off" and paranoid because of her mental stability. When she saw her mother and the show tells you how Azula felt about it, its SHOWING you why she was "pissed off" her whole life and "paranoid" as well.

Again, we all know she is mentally insane. Ozai isn't. I don't care how many times you say "he shares the traits" it doesn't mean he is.



masamune1 said:


> But they _have_ done the same thing, over and over again, and I _did_ compare the two, quite easily. You are trying to excuse Azula simply because of who her father is, even though Ozai himself didn't exactly have a particularly brilliant father either.


They have never done the same things, in which you stated. They do evil actions, oh yes, but never the same thing. They might do their own action "over and over again" but never the same thing. Again, in which you said they did and I showed you otherwise. 

No one is excusing Azula. Whose posts are you reading? I admitted more than once she has done evil things, but this is because she is mentally insane whilst Ozai is just evil. You should really learn to read my posts better 



masamune1 said:


> You even go so far to say that Ozai is the way he is because of the way he was raised, because of the of the thoughts and beliefs that were drilled into his head. That makes him just like Azula, even if the way he was raised was slightly different; but apparently, she is insane, and he isn't.



Ozai's father was *evil*, yes, and so was he. The best example is when Ozai wants the throne, his father gets upset and orders death, Ozai is going to do it but Zuko's mother intervene by killing Ozai's father. These are the actions of an evil man, not a mentally insane person.

Again, watch the show and see the differences between Ozai and Azula!



masamune1 said:


> Evil is as vague and broad a term as insanity, but by the definition of insanity, evil people are often crazy, or at the very least far from being "perfectly sane".  Even if the aren't locked up in a mental hospital, that doesn't mean society considers them 100% normal or mentally healthy. Whats really getting at me isn't that you think Ozai isn't crazy, its that you think he isn't even a _little_ crazy, despite the fact that that he is....._Ozai._



He is evil and can be held mentally capable of his actions.

Azula is insane and can't be held mentally capable of her actions.

I can't get it any simpler than that or from bringing in court cases, medical differences or anymore. You have refused each and every one of them in favor of sayign Ozai is insane because he shares a few traits of a word.



masamune1 said:


> Actually, it goes quite a ways to suggesting that they do.
> 
> *The mere fact that Ozai and Azula are ruthless, sadistic and egotistical as they are is grounds to think that they have a personality disorder or three. *


@theunderlined:
No it doesn't. And if you ever said that to a doctor or a specialist, they would tell you how wrong and illogical you are right now. :/

Once more, you are MISSING the differences between the two's situations! Read above.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Part 2, pretty big post I had to make...



masamune1 said:


> I understand that perfectly. It doesn't mean that one of them is insane, and the other one isn't. _Everyone_ is different in case, person, mindset, situation and feelings; that doesn't mean that there is only one insane person in the world and that doesn't mean that Ozai and Azula still don't have a lot in common.



I don't think you do understand it....

You are assuming because Azula is insane, Ozai has to be because he shares a few traits of a word.

Do you see how illogical that is?



masamune1 said:


> Since I'm saying that he appears to be insane in nearly _all_ of his actions, and since I'm seeing next to nothing that contradicts what I'm saying-and despite what you think, you haven't presented anything, just posted the same lines over and over again without addressing my issues- this isn't really applicable.



He doesn't appear insane,  he's evil, not insane. Insane is what Azula is and what has happened to her. Now compare their situations and you see nothing alike!

I have presented it, you refused to see it as evidence because of, once more, Ozai shares a few traits of a word and your assumption of "Well if Azula is mentally insane, Ozai has to be too!"



masamune1 said:


> What seems silly to me is that you acknowledge that both Azula and Ozai on paper demonstrate the characteristics of a sociopath- the onus then is on you to prove that they aren't, but you haven't done that. You just keep saying that despite the fact they _appear_ to be sociopaths, they aren't, without explaining why.



I have explained why! By golly-gee man! Read my posts! We have proof within the show Azula is MENTALLY INSANE but none that says Ozai is mentally insane. I have given you definitions, examples, court cases, medical diagnosis, medical diagnosis examples of why you are wrong and more.

The problem is that you don't consider it evidence! Why? Because *your* evidence is a few traits of a word = you are it. Your evidence is built on "appearances" and "assumptions".



masamune1 said:


> You don't "know" from experience at all. You are basing your observations on a single case, and comparing them rather badly since I'm guessing your aunt didn't nearly kill her friends to get her to follow them; mock her brother when she heard that he was going to be killed by their dad; burn down buildings; enforce an imperialist tyranny; manipulate near on everyone she came across, etc. She wasn't, in other words, a cartoon supervillain, or so I assume.
> 
> The fact that both Azula and your aunt suffered a similar mental breakdown doesn't mean that Azula had the same problems as your aunt, or the same personality, and the fact that Ozai didn't doesn't mean that the two of them are crazy and Ozai isn't. I don't have a masters or anything either, but I've taken University-level psychology classes, I've read the textbooks, I've studied dozens of case studies of criminal insanity, and I'm a history student specialising in dictatorship and tyrannies. I'm familiar with different forms of mental illness and personality disorders through years of hard study, and I personally know people who have suffered from depression, schizophrenia, emotional instability, and other ailments. And I've read and studied many works and texts of philosophical, sociological, theological and literary natures  discussing the nature of evil.



My experience is that I dealt and are continuing to deal with experts regarding the mentally ill people. Of course it hasn't happened to me personally, but I have talked to experts on this. I have researched the subject, I have learned form them and more. No, she didn't kill people nor did she nearly kill h er friends, but she was mean to others and treated her 4 brothers a bit like Azula does to Zuko. In case you didn't read it, I said they are sorta similar based on their actual mental breakdown. 

I also never said they had same problems, just that they both suffered a mental breakdown and that if you are knowledgeable in the situations and regarding the mentally insane, then you can see the differences between Ozai and Azula. 

Please read my posts.




masamune1 said:


> And I know full well that people who _have_ masters, who have doctorates and books and a whole host of other qualifications that neither of us do, still get into debates about this kind of thing. But I know the general consnsus, and based on that consensus I can safely say that yes, Ozai and Azula are probably sociopaths.



Their is no "probably" for Azula. She is mentally insane. The topic is whether or not Ozai is evil or insane, in which you automatically assume he's mentally insane because his daughter is and he shares a few traits with a word. :/



masamune1 said:


> That is not what I am implying at all. I am saying that evil can be considered a form of madness, that madness does not mean that someone is not in control of their actions, and that both Ozai and Azula meet the criteria for sociopathy and certain personality disorders, and they meet it better than many people in real life who have actually been diagnosed with those disorders. I have provided definitions, I have backed it up with evidence, I have responded to every one of your points, and I have seen very little to no evidence contradicting my claims.
> 
> And that makes me think I might just have a point.



That is your own argument. If evil is insane/madness, evil *cannot* exist because evil = insane & insane = evil. In your own argument.

We have given you evidence, I have personally given you evidence. You don't see it as evidence. It is not my fault you won't/can't comprehend it as such.

Yes, and there we go! You **think** you have a point. You have no definite, just assumptions, thinking and "he shares a few traits = he he is it/has it" argument. The show actually shows Azula as mentally insane, not evil. 

So I guess that ends it, you *think* you have a point because you *think* that because he shares traits of a word he is what the word defines, which is just an assumption as well. And I'm sorry to say this, but its is illogical and incorrect and doesn't make an argument at all.... :/
**

But you know what, if you honestly want to believe Ozai is mentally insane and not evil based on assumptions and a few similar traits, then go ahead I suppose. Just know that logically and in the real world, that isn't so.

T?kša akh?,

Terra~






			
				LegendaryBeauty said:
			
		

> Speak for yourself.


Azulsexuals? Azulasexuals? Azusexuals? 



			
				MunchKing said:
			
		

> It's all good, we are all Korrasexuals here.


We are. 

I was wondering guys...which Avatar episode did you think had the best story or animation? I have mine narrowed down to 2-3, but still can't decide on a definite.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 5, 2011)

My favourites include The Chase and The Crossroads of Destiny; best season finale ever. That was just awesome.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> My favourites include The Chase and The Crossroads of Destiny; best season finale ever. That was just awesome.



I loved The Chase! Animation or story? I'm assuming story? Well either way, good picks LB. I didn't think there was a lot of other people who looked The Chase or TCD.


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## Burke (Aug 5, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> My favourites include The Chase and The Crossroads of Destiny; best season finale ever. That was just awesome.



jove approves


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 5, 2011)

The Blind Bandit and The Chase were my favorites. Toph is the reason why I even got into ATLA.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> The Blind Bandit and The Chase were my favorites. Toph is the reason why I even got into ATLA.


I love The Blind Bandit episode :33

So you came in a bit later then?  

*have some toph-love rep!*


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## Ms. Jove (Aug 5, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Speak for yourself.










Terra Branford said:


> I loved The Chase! Animation or story? I'm assuming story? Well either way, good picks LB. I didn't think there was a lot of other people who looked The Chase or TCD.




Honestly, it's like a wrote 15,000 words for nothing.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 5, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Honestly, it's like a wrote 15,000 words for nothing.



It was really directed more towards the new comers to the thread 

Everyone already knows that you wrote  a 15,000+ words on it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 5, 2011)

Hmmmm, I ranked The Chase #12. That seems low, but I can;t see an episode ahead of it that I would switch it with. Avatar's so great.


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## Burke (Aug 5, 2011)

12th out of 60(1) isnt that low


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## Dream Brother (Aug 5, 2011)

I was just writing about this the other day, actually -- the most memorable scene in _The Chase_, to me, is when Iroh is blasted by Azula. Just look at Zuko's face in that scene -- heartbreak and horror in a single second. I don't think I've ever seen that facial expression on him at any other point throughout the series. Then the way he rejected Katara's offer to help...just a powerful moment.


----------



## Jena (Aug 5, 2011)

I liked the boiling rock episodes.

I wouldn't place them as my top favorites (I can't think of what I'd put there right now ) but I definitely enjoyed them.


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## Ruby Moon (Aug 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I love The Blind Bandit episode :33
> 
> So you came in a bit later then?
> 
> *have some toph-love rep!*



Ah, Terra. In truth, I didn't really bother to get into ATLA until my older sister told me about it. At first, I thought "Oh geez, a Japanese anime-wannabe American copycat cartoon", and shook my head. I had this totally elitist outlook back then, because there weren't too many good cartoons out. The only real "cartoons" for me were anime.

But then, my sister was watching it, and I saw Toph. I didn't realize who she was at first, and my sister had mentioned an "Azula". I was like "Huh, so she's with the good guys. Of course, I was wrong, and that's when I started really watching the show. It took me a while to get here, and you don't want to get me started on how I saw Naruto back then...


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## Stunna (Aug 5, 2011)

My top five favorite episodes off the top of my head are, in no particular order:

1. The Storm
2. Zuko Alone
3. Tales of Ba Sing Se
4. The Beach
5. The Avatar and the Fire Lord

I might replace one of those with The Blue Spirit.


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## Burke (Aug 5, 2011)

Stunna said:


> My top five favorite episodes off the top of my head are, in no particular order:
> 
> 1. The Storm
> 2. Zuko Alone
> ...



so what, you have a thing for flashbacks?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 5, 2011)

Yeah, you could say that.


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

So.  I just found an actual use for "The Last Crapbender".  It's on Netflix Instant so I can watch it without directly paying for it, so my brother and I just spent a half hour watching scenes from it, poking fun at all the bad writing and plot holes, and comparing to scenes from the show and how much better they were.  Our own private riff.  Good times.

I also noticed something.  The movie spends almost half its time at the Northern Water Tribe, at least 50 minutes.  Now compare that to what the show did in the same amount (I'm not really counting "The Waterbending Master" because the whole Pakku being sexist plot was cut out of the movie entirely).  In 45 minutes The Siege of the North is more entertaining, more exciting, more moving, and more awesome than anything in the movie could have been.  Whyyyyyy?  The first half of the movie rushed through the rest of the season, sure, but Shyamalan allowed himself the same amount of time that the show had in the Northern Water Tribe.  But it failed in every respect.  I'm not even going to list the way it failed because that would take Jovian effort.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The Last Airbender needed to be two and a half hours long. That's only common sense if you plan on capturing all of the important points of the first season of the show. And there are a lot of them that are left out of the film that set the foundation for events to come. That's one of the many reasons why I hope Shyamalan doesn't get to make more Airbender movies. They should just wait awhile, and re-adapt the series with a director that gives a shit about the source material.


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## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman...you watched The Last Airbender? 

I never thought anyone one these forums, let alone this thread or Korra, would bother to watch that piece of EPIC trash.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

I saw it in theaters. For some reason I expected it to be good. I've grown wiser since.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Oman...you watched The Last Airbender?
> 
> I never thought anyone one these forums, let alone this thread or Korra, would bother to watch that piece of EPIC trash.



Hey! Watch it! I watched it. 

My gran-gran watched it and liked it. And we all know my gran-gran > all of your opinions. 

**


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## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

No way, Terra. I don't want to be contaminated. I need my eyes to be in perfect working order.


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Oman...you watched The Last Airbender?
> 
> I never thought anyone one these forums, let alone this thread or Korra, would bother to watch that piece of EPIC trash.



I watched it the weekend it premiered, with my dad and brothers (who are all Avatar fans).  I deliberately avoided reading reviews so I could make my own, purely original opinion.

And I loathed it.  I loathed myself for watched it.  I was so upset at the end as I stumbled out that I hit my knee into the arm of a theater chair and had a big, scraped bruise on it for the next week or so.

But I tried liking it...oh I tried.  I tried to find a single good thing about it.  I couldn't.



Terra Branford said:


> Hey! Watch it! I watched it.
> 
> **



Yeah but you're just weird like that. Your gran-gran too.


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## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

Ah, Oman. Your most loathsome experience merely proves that I will never seek to watch The Last Airbender, whether it be on NetFlix or out of sheer boredom. I'm not that adventurous.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

It honestly isn't that bad. I have seen worse. Waterworld, Eragon, Blood+ movie and the Street Fighter movie. 



> Yeah but you're just weird like that. Your gran-gran too.


I am weird, and very proud. :3 After all, without the weird people in media around who would challenge the everyday norms in film business/games/stories? 

And my gran-gran is awesome. She's a Saiyan I'll have you know.


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

I never have and never will watch the Last Airbender movie. I don't need the series to be tainted.

Extremely accurate:


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## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

I was actually glad it was live-action. The problem lies in that it was bad live-action.


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## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Oh you guys.   Exaggeration is exaggeration. 

EDIT:
Maybe they will do a reboot. They earned enough money to consider it. They would have to hire someone else, like Peter Jackson. pek


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## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> It honestly isn't that bad. I have seen worse. Waterworld, Eragon, Blood+ movie and the Street Fighter movie.



Eh...I saw Eragon in theaters (none of the others though), and while it certainly wasn't a good movie, I don't think it was the train wreck that The Last Airbender was when it comes to writing, acting, and cinematography.  I read and enjoyed Eragon beforehand (though I readily admit it was basically transplanting the plot of Star Wars wholesale into a fantasy world) and I didn't come out of Eragon _angry_ like I did The Last Airbender.



> I am weird, and very proud. :3 After all, without the weird people in media around who would challenge the everyday norms in film business/games/stories?



Challenging every day norms is all well and good, but there comes a point where one just has to admit that dog crap tastes like dog crap. Even your Saiyan gran-gran.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> Eh...I saw Eragon in theaters (none of the others though), and while it certainly wasn't a good movie, I don't think it was the train wreck that The Last Airbender was when it comes to writing, acting, and cinematography.  I read and enjoyed Eragon beforehand (though I readily admit it was basically transplanting the plot of Star Wars wholesale into a fantasy world) and I didn't come out of Eragon _angry_ like I did The Last Airbender.
> 
> 
> Challenging every day norms is all well and good, but there comes a point where you just have to admit that dog crap tastes like dog crap.



Everything was shifted so badly it made it ultra impossible to make a second movie. Eragon wasn't supposed to stay behind with the dwarves and Arya wasn't supposed to leave by herself. Eragon also didn't shatter the Star, which is extremely important to the story. And while I still like the Eragon movie, it wasn't a good adaption at all. 

Its a bad movie, but its not as bad as you guys make it out to be xD

Seriously, the worst part _I thought_ was the earthbender scenes


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Everything was shifted so badly it made it ultra impossible to make a second movie. Eragon wasn't supposed to stay behind with the dwarves and Arya wasn't supposed to leave by herself. Eragon also didn't shatter the Star, which is extremely important to the story. And while I still like the Eragon movie, it wasn't a good adaption at all.



-The Kyoshi Warriors, Jet, and the Mechanist never appear, even though they become important to the story later on.
-Avatar Roku never appears, just a "spirit dragon"
-Aang apparently _controls_ the Avatar State at the end when he wasn't supposed to do that until the very end of the show.
-Ozai was revealed casually instead of only giving hints of him

I'm curious as to how you might think Book 2 can be made from this movie.



> Its a bad movie, but its not as bad as you guys make it out to be xD
> 
> Seriously, the worst part _I thought_ was the earthbender scenes



Oh.  And here I was thinking you liked it from previous discussions. 

I guess it just didn't completely infuriate you like it did most of the rest of us.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

I never watched the latest Street Fighter movie. I know it's crap. The one in the early 90s with Raul Julia as M. Bison...now, that's different. HAIL RAUL JULIA!!!!!! 

As for a reboot of TLA...who knows? Let's hope that they never do it, or if they do, the director and casting director better be different. 

Jena, that is the perfect comic strip for the fan reaction of the live action ATLA movie. Indeed, it is every fan for him/herself. 

Oman, I heard quite many a different opinion of the movie, ranging from "It's a great movie for kids!" (ignorance is bliss, obviously) to "It was a steaming pile of shit". However, there was once a review in which it was the first time I heard anyone booing and throwing crap at the movie screen. Another reviewer was a parent, and the kid (forget if the kid was a boy or a girl) had said, the parent typed verbatim "That was awful". 

Now, it's a good thing I didn't waste my money and time on that flop of a movie.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

They better reboot it. Heck, God willing, I'll do it myself.


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Oman...you watched The Last Airbender?
> 
> I never thought anyone one these forums, let alone this thread or Korra, would bother to watch that piece of EPIC trash.



i saw the handheld camera bootleg on the internet


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> -The Kyoshi Warriors, Jet, and the Mechanist never appear, even though they become important to the story later on.
> -Avatar Roku never appears, just a "spirit dragon"
> -Aang apparently _controls_ the Avatar State at the end when he wasn't supposed to do that until the very end of the show.
> -Ozai was revealed casually instead of only giving hints of him
> ...



I don't think there can be a second, but my Toph love is so bad I want to see Toph in life action. They need to reboot, but its so rare for reboots. 



Oman said:


> Oh.  And here I was thinking you liked it from previous discussions.
> 
> I guess it just didn't completely infuriate you like it did most of the rest of us.


I like it, I like _strange_. It wasn't good and it wasn't godly, it seemed quiet normal to me.


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

On the topic of reboots:  I'd _much_ rather that Nickelodeon put money into making new animated material, be it a movie or a TV show.  Like Legend of Korra!   If they make it in 20 years with a director and writers who actually enjoyed the series for what it is and don't want to force their "interpretation" onto the movie...then it might be worth watching.


----------



## Shade (Aug 6, 2011)

If it's ever redone, it has to be in full hand-drawn animation with a feature film's budget helmed by Studio Ghibli or someone capable enough to emulate their style. Mike and Bryan also need to have full creative control.

Wholly fulfilling these requirements would be the only circumstance that would warrant an Avatar movie.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman, don't jinx us! Korra is coming to Nick next year, and I don't even want to think about a live action movie based on it. Not after TLA flopped, and poor Bryke needed to stay away from the movies after that. 

Terra, I love Toph too. But I doubt that anyone could really ever do Toph Bei Fong, the Greatest Earthbender IN THE WORLD, justice. The actress would have very sole-less shoes to walk in, if she could get used to it.


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Shade said:


> If it's ever redone, it has to be in full hand-drawn animation with a feature film's budget helmed by Studio Ghibli or someone capable enough to emulate their style. Mike and Bryan also need to have full creative control.
> 
> Wholly fulfilling these requirements would be the only circumstance that would warrant an Avatar movie.



What would be the point of that, though?  The series is already in animated form.  Redoing the first season as a single animated movie makes even less sense than redoing it as a single live action movie.  Which didn't really make sense in the first place, so shortly after the original series ended.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Oman, don't jinx us! Korra is coming to Nick next year, and I don't even want to think about a live action movie based on it. Not after TLA flopped, and poor Bryke needed to stay away from the movies after that.
> 
> Terra, I love Toph too. But I doubt that anyone could really ever do Toph Bei Fong, the Greatest Earthbender IN THE WORLD, justice. The actress would have very sole-less shoes to walk in, if she could get used to it.



Actually, I was looking at some people and this girl seems like a good Toph to me. She'd just need to work on her acting because I don't want to see another Noah or Twilight guy in the movie.

(*Acting: *Yes --- Wushu, Shaolin, and Capoeira. )


She kind of looks like Toph too xD

EDIT:
Because I was looking at my avatar...

I LOVE TOPH! SHE'S TOO AWESOME! SHE BEATS EVERYONE! SHE'S TOO AWESOME! pek

Ahem...


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

I just don't understand why stuff _needs_ to have a movie adaptation. That goes for books, tv shows, games, etc. I never really got it. I like the source material, but it's complete. Why would I want to see it in another form?

But I guess I'm a hypocrite because I always go to see the film adaptations of stuff I know...

EDIT:



Terra Branford said:


> (*Acting: *Yes --- Wushu, Shaolin, and Capoeira. )
> 
> 
> She kind of looks like Toph too xD


She does look like Toph!


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

Ah. Very nice. All she needs are the milky-jade lenses. 

Still, I don't think anyone can truly ever have what it takes to play the Greatest Earthbender in the World. 

Let's be glad that there won't be another ATLA live action movie for a while.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Jena said:


> She does look like Toph!



I know, right? :33

Plus, if you watch the video, she makes some really Toph like expressions! xD

@Ruby Moon:
Aw, I hope another comes soon, just a reboot or something.

I want to see Toph in live action!


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Actually, I was looking at some people and this girl seems like a good Toph to me. She'd just need to work on her acting because I don't want to see another Noah or Twilight guy in the movie.
> 
> (*Acting: *Yes --- Wushu, Shaolin, and Capoeira. )



Nope, she'd never get the role of Toph.  Why?  She's actually _Asian._  Can't have Asian actors in a Hollywood adaptation of an Asian-themed show, no sir!


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> Nope, she'd never get the role of Toph.  Why?  She's actually _Asian._  Can't have Asian actors in a Hollywood adaptation of an Asian-themed show, no sir!



M.Night Shymablahblah said he would make Toph Asian


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> M.Night Shymablahblah said he would make Toph Asian



He also said he would make a good movie.  Look how that turned out.


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> M.Night Shymablahblah said he would make Toph Asian



He also said he watched the show.

Clearly that was not the case.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> He also said he would make a good movie.  Look how that turned out.



That's different. He thought it would be good, which is impossible to tell really. He said he would make Toph Asian. One's certain and the other isn't.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 6, 2011)

M Knight did watch the series as evidenced by his inclusion of Hama's name when Gran Gran was talking about the last waterbender in the SWT before Katara. That wasn't even mentioned in the actual series. It's actually fairly obscure until you watch the third season, there was no real reason to mention her specifically if he didn't intend for the Gaang to meet her in the planned third film.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Jena said:


> He also said he watched the show.
> 
> Clearly that was not the case.



He watched it. Its a movie, its extremely, extremely hard to get a movie to be like its source material. As epic as Lord of the Rings was, they didn't get it very close to the source either


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> Nope, she'd never get the role of Toph.  Why?  She's actually _Asian._  Can't have Asian actors in a Hollywood adaptation of an Asian-themed show, no sir!



Your too shallow 

m night didnt just make everyone whiteeee.

water tribe was white
fire nation was indian
earth nation was both african and asian
and air nomads were ethnically diverse.

so yes, toph would be asian


----------



## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Aug 6, 2011)

^Toph may be Blasian? 
Did Mike and Bryan say anything about the M.Night movie stuff at Comic-con? Or are they actively distancing themselves from him.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Fenix Down said:


> ^Toph may be Blasian?
> Did Mike and Bryan say anything about the M.Night movie stuff at Comic-con? Or are they actively distancing themselves from him.



I think they were asked about it and didn't make any comments on it.


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

They didn't comment on whether they liked it but made it clear that they had _no_ control or influence on how the final product turned out.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> They didn't comment on whether they liked it but made it clear that they had _no_ control or influence on how the final product turned out.



Yea, even though they made comments before the cut that they read the scripted and liked it. 

I wonder what happened to those interviews


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Yea, even though they made comments before the cut that they read the scripted and liked it.
> 
> I wonder what happened to those interviews



They read the script?  I never saw that interview...


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> They read the script?  I never saw that interview...



Video recording of M.Night answering questions. He says Mike and Bryan said its "Its good, its good -- but its like 10 hours long!!" And then they had to cut some stuff and then Paramount made them cut nearly all of the movie.



I'll see if I can find a better place


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> He watched it. Its a movie, its extremely, extremely hard to get a movie to be like its source material. As epic as Lord of the Rings was, they didn't get it very close to the source either



I was half-joking.

But you'd think that if he watched the show, he'd know how the character's names were pronounced.


----------



## Darth (Aug 6, 2011)

can anyone tell me who the artist for this picture was?


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Video recording of M.Night answering questions. He says Mike and Bryan said its "Its good, its good -- but its like 10 hours long!!" And then they had to cut some stuff and then Paramount made them cut nearly all of the movie.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll see if I can find a better place



This is the interview from the Season 2 bonus disc?  I think this was before the movie even went into production and Bryke realized how horrible it was. 



Jena said:


> I was half-joking.
> 
> But you'd think that if he watched the show, he'd know how the character's names were pronounced.



He _deliberately_ changed the name pronunciation to be, in his view, "correct", according to interviews.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 6, 2011)

So, the names that the creators of the series made for the characters are, according to M...incorrect?


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

Yup.  He changed them so they would be "properly" pronounced in the original Asian languages.

Despite the fact that the names are _fictional_ and not directly from any Asian language...


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 6, 2011)

I really hope he gets dropped.  He's going to butcher Azula and the other characters. I'd really have preferred if the orientals were the Fire Nation. They'd look so much more awesome.  Azn technology ftw.


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> Yup.  He changed them so they would be "properly" pronounced in the original Asian languages.
> 
> Despite the fact that the names are _fictional_ and not directly from any Asian language...



The pronunciation of the names were the least of the movie's problems.  



LegendaryBeauty said:


> I really hope he gets dropped.  He's going to butcher Azula and the other characters. I'd really have preferred if the orientals were the Fire Nation. They'd look so much more awesome.  Azn technology ftw.



Wait. Is he on contract for sequels?


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 6, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> Wait. Is he on contract for sequels?



I believe he is for the second one. No idea about the third.

I'm actually interested in how they're going to portray lightning bending. If it's really cheap affects... Or if they cut it out...


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

I think most people have already seen these, but they're still funny.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

It's obvious Shyamalan isn't going to be making his planned sequel. Paramount hasn't greenlighted it in over a year, and the decisoin for a sequel is usually made after a week the movie did well, which TLA did not. 

Oman, I'm not sure what Shyamalan was thinking by "correcting" the character's names. He obviously thought he was helping the movie more "Asian" or something.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 6, 2011)

Well, if you're going to correct their race, you might as well correct their name as well. 

The weird thing is that movie grossed $320 million, which just goes to show that not even $300 million is what it used to be. You don't even have to have the pretense of art, storytelling, or basic film making to break these barriers anymore.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 6, 2011)

I never did see M. Night Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender,_ but if it was a terrible as everyone here says that it is, I have no intention of seeing it and any sequels to it shall likely be equally awful, unless Shyamalan makes an effort to learn from the mistakes of his first film. However, I also would prefer that he not make a sequel and allow his film to vanish into obscurity, so that it does not affect the image of the originals series.



Oman said:


> Yup.  He changed them so they would be "properly" pronounced in the original Asian languages.
> 
> Despite the fact that the names are _fictional_ and not directly from any Asian language...



Please do not be offended, but if the names are fictional, as are the characters, why is it such a great issue that Shyamalan cast non-Asian actors to play several characters? Shyamalan himself said that in animated series, the ethnicity of characters is often ambiguous (I cannot recall exactly where he said that, but I have seen it mentioned somewhere).

Also, several names in the series were actual Asian names, notably Mai, Kyoshi, Haru, and Hakoda, and in the latter three, the second syllable of each name would not be stressed (see the pronunciation of Sakura's name in _CardCaptor Sakua_ or of Kagome's name in _Inuyasha_ between the Japanese and English versions of each series for an example of this habit) by an Asian speaker, but apparently, native English speakers have a very bad habit of stressing the middle syllable of three-syllable words that are foreign to them. After having watched Japanese animation for so long, I had become accustomed to the very strict phonetic rules of the Japanese language and had forgotten that English is much more lax in that regard. Therefore, I was expecting many of the names in this series to be pronounced differently from how the actors actually said them, and I am not joking when I say that I cringed every time I heard a character stress the middle syllable of Azula's name, as that caused me to remember the very poor English dubs of Japanese animated series that I have seen (such as those that I mentioned above). If the creators of this series conducted such great research to build a detailed and developed world, would it really have been too great an effort to teach the voice actors that in Asian languages, no one syllable in a word is stressed more than another?

To change the subject, although the creators of the series have, to the best of my knowledge, said that there shall not be firearms in _The Legend of Korra,_ what possibility is there that they may be a firebender who uses explosive powder to augment their ability? What about a waterbender who mixes sedatives or poisons in their water to debilitate their enemies in far more subtle and sinister methods? I would definitely like to see such tactics.


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Please do not be offended, but if the names are fictional, as are the characters, why is it such a great issue that Shyamalan cast non-Asian actors to play several characters? Shyamalan himself said that in animated series, the ethnicity of characters is often ambiguous (I cannot recall exactly where he said that, but I have seen it mentioned somewhere).



I think most of the issues people had came from changing Katara and Sokka to white people and making Zuko an Indian actor.

This is an image from a comedy website, but its implications are pretty valid.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

Were the ethnic groups of the characters really that ambiguous? The Water Tribes are obviously Inuits; the Air Nomads, Tibetan; the Earth Kingdom, Chinese; and the same with the Fire Nation, though it's obviously influenced by Indian and Japanese cultures.

And call me overly sensitive, but yeah, I was offended by whitewashing the main protagonists and darkening the antagonists.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 6, 2011)

Jena said:


> I think most of the issues people had came from changing Katara and Sokka to white people and making Zuko an Indian actor.
> 
> This is an image from a comedy website, but its implications are pretty valid.



Yes, I have seen that image, and read the article from which it is derived (Cracked.com is such an awesome website), and I do agree that it is rather odd, to use a mild term, that Shyamalan chose the actors whom he did for those roles.



Stunna said:


> Were the ethnic groups of the characters really that ambiguous? The Water Tribes are obviously Inuits; the Air Nomads, Tibetan; the Earth Kingdom, Chinese; and the same with the Fire Nation, though it's obviously influenced by Indian and Japanese cultures.
> 
> And call me overly sensitive, but yeah, I was offended by whitewashing the main protagonists and darkening the antagonists.



Yes, perhaps that choice of casting was a rather poor one, but it has already been made, and the past cannot be altered. The part that I find to be most unusual is that Shyamalan himself is Indian, yet he cast white actors for some of the major protagonist roles and an Indian actor for a major antagonist (as Zuko is not a villain). Is that not rather unusual?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

It's very unusual. It was even reported that he didn't want to make the movie if he couldn't cast the girl who portrayed Katara in it.


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

I found the interview with M. Night where he talks about his casting choices, btw. I think someone (DDJ?) mentioned it.





> *Here's the thing. The great thing about anime is that it's ambiguous. The features of the characters are an intentional mix of all features. It's intended to be ambiguous. That is completely its point. So when we watch Katara, my oldest daughter is literally a photo double of Katara in the cartoon. So that means that Katara is Indian, correct? No that's just in our house.  And her friends who watch it, they see themselves in it. And that's what's so beautiful about anime.*
> 
> When we were casting, I was like, "I don't care who walks through my door, whoever is best for the part. I'm going to figure it out like a chessgame." Ideally we separate the nations ethnically — ideally. I didn't know how or what it was going to be. And it was so fluid. For example if you found a great brother, [but] he didn't go with my favorite Katara, then we couldn't use him. Theoretical things like that. There was an Ang that we really loved, but he was like 5'10." There's all kinds of issues that come to the table physically. And I had a board of all the people that I was considering, the seven or eight. There was, at one time, a Chinese Sokka and Katara, and they were over here. One of them was a better actor than the other, and so I was gathering my pros and cons.
> 
> ...



...._right...._
I don't know what crack he's on, but I'd like to try some.
There's a difference between _seeing yourself in a character_ and _looking like them_. I think that I'm very similar to Katara, but I would never be like, "oh yeah, I can physically see my caucasian Germanic features in this clearly inuit girl."


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

Looks like he's talking out of his ass to me.


----------



## Wan (Aug 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Please do not be offended, but if the names are fictional, as are the characters, why is it such a great issue that Shyamalan cast non-Asian actors to play several characters? Shyamalan himself said that in animated series, the ethnicity of characters is often ambiguous (I cannot recall exactly where he said that, but I have seen it mentioned somewhere).



While the names, nations, and places were fictional, it was always very clear that the characters were not _white_, if anything else.  The Air Nomads were based on Tibetan monks.  The Water Tribes were based on the Inuits.  The Fire Nation was based (for the most part) on imperial Japan, while the Earth Kingdom was based on feudal China (for the most part).  And Shyamalan threw all that out the window and was like "Let's get all Caucasian actors!"  It's only because the fandom was on the brink of rioting when he cast _Jesse frikkin McCartney_ as Zuko that he changed the role to Dev Patel and made the Fire Nation Asian-Indian.  Actually, for all we know he would've still made the Fire Nation Indian and kept Jesse McCartney.  Would've made about as much sense as having Sokka and Katara the only white people in a tribe of Inuits.

But they whitewashed casting wouldn't have bothered me half as much if the cast could actually _act_ worth a crap.  Which they couldn't.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

It pisses me off even more when you think about how hard it is for minorities like Asians to get roles in big Hollywood movies.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 6, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> Wait. Is he on contract for sequels?



Well this really wasn't a situation where a studio gets the rights to a hot property, sees dollar signs in their eyes and wants to make a film asap.
M.Knight himself came to Paramount and figured that _Avatar_ would make a great series of films. So the opportunity was never there to talk with different directors or screenwriters, this was supposed to be M. Knight's project all around.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

I don't know what Shyamalan was thinking when he cast those actors in the roles of supposedly Inuit-featured siblings and an obviously Tibetan-Expied boy monk. 

If you're going to make a live action movie adaptation of a book or comic or other type of media, isn't it most important to stick to the source material? For example, Peter Pan. There have been several movies made of it, and a sequel that is based on a "What if Peter Pan grew up?" scenario AU. I love Hook. I really do. Dustin Hoffman made an excellent Hook because he looked the part and played the part and was faithful to the part. Now, of course, Robin Williams plays the part of an adult Peter Pan who has forgotten his past as the boy who would never grow up, and his looks are a bit more ambiguous, but otherwise, he too remained faithful to the boy who used to live in Neverland.

If Shyamalan had stuck to the source material, he wouldn't be sulking away from angry critics and fans.


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> But they whitewashed casting wouldn't have bothered me half as much if the cast could actually _act_ worth a crap.  Which they couldn't.


That's the kicker. Not that the whitewashing thing would be _ok_ per se, but it would make sense if he genuinely picked actors who would excel at their parts. Like how in the Harry Potter movies Alan Rickman looks nothing like how Snape is described (aside from the hair, maybe) but it works because Rickman is excellent at playing Snape.



Stunna said:


> It pisses me off even more when you think about how hard it is for minorities like Asians to get roles in big Hollywood movies.


I know, right? 
That was one of the things I liked about Avatar, actually. It's rare that the main characters in a kids show aren't white--and especially in cartoons. 



Ruby Moon said:


> If you're going to make a live action movie adaptation of a book or comic or other type of media, isn't it most important to stick to the source material? For example, Peter Pan. There have been several movies made of it, and a sequel that is based on a "What if Peter Pan grew up?" scenario AU. I love Hook. I really do. Dustin Hoffman made an excellent Hook because he looked the part and played the part and was faithful to the part. Now, of course, Robin Williams plays the part of an adult Peter Pan who has forgotten his past as the boy who would never grow up, and his looks are a bit more ambiguous, but otherwise, he too remained faithful to the boy who used to live in Neverland.
> 
> If Shyamalan had stuck to the source material, he wouldn't be sulking away from angry critics and fans.


Very true.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 6, 2011)

Well the more interesting thing was that the actors cast as Sokka, Katara and Gran Gran lived in a village where people looked like this-



I think M. Knight figured that the SWT would be made up of Inuits and the NWT were from Scandinavian origin. It was very odd.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 6, 2011)

They should just do a reboot. Avatar could make a very good trilogy in the right hands.


----------



## Glued (Aug 6, 2011)

Alicia Masters in Fantastic Four Movie


Alicia Masters in The Comics


Anyone care, nope.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 6, 2011)

Hey, do you guys know what Jesse McCartney said about playing the part of Sokka? He said something along the lines of "Oh, I'll just have to get a tan and everything'll be fine" . You have to wonder whether or not this guy really cared about the fans.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 6, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Alicia Masters in Fantastic Four Movie
> 
> 
> Alicia Masters in The Comics
> ...



The comparison isn't accurate as culture plays a large role in Avatar and the woman in FF only made a cameo appearance.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

Gunners said:


> They should just do a reboot. Avatar could make a very good trilogy in the right hands.


I agree, but I don't think the whole series could be covered in just three movies. 


Ben Grimm said:


> -Snip-
> 
> Anyone care, nope.



I would if I read Fantastic Four comics. I don't, therefor I don't. Furthermore, and I know what I'm saying may be hypocritical, and I don't care; but changing a White character into a minority isn't the same as the opposite. Hollywood is dominated by White actors. They will always have a place in the business. How many minorities do you see starring in movies. And don't even bring out the obligatory "Will Smith, Morgan Freeman, Forrest Whittaker" card.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 6, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Hey, do you guys know what Jesse McCartney said about playing the part of Sokka? He said something along the lines of "Oh, I'll just have to get a tan and everything'll be fine" . You have to wonder whether or not this guy really cared about the fans.



Jackson Rathbone actually said that. He was a pale in the film as he was in real life. The tan would not have been a good idea for either one of them. That's almost getting into Yellow/blackface territory.


----------



## Glued (Aug 6, 2011)

Heimdall from Thor



Heimdall being black did not ruin the movie.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 6, 2011)

Yeah the only people who made a real stink of it were full blown racist White Nationalists.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

I don't know about anyone else, but at least for me, the whitewashing didn't ruin the movie. It was the retarded plot, writing, and complete and utter disregard for the source material that did. If everything else was great, the cast choices would bother me still, but I would be willing to give that a pass.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Jena said:


> I was half-joking.
> 
> But you'd think that if he watched the show, he'd know how the character's names were pronounced.



Ah, okay.

I thought Mike&Bryan had him correct Aang's name, or was it Sokka's name? 



Oman said:


> This is the interview from the Season 2 bonus disc?  I think this was before the movie even went into production and Bryke realized how horrible it was.


Nah, its for the movie.


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well the more interesting thing was that the actors cast as Sokka, Katara and Gran Gran lived in a village where people looked like this-
> 
> 
> 
> I think M. Knight figured that the SWT would be made up of Inuits and the NWT were from Scandinavian origin. It was very odd.



the reasoning for this was that the northern water tribe was caucasian looking, and that the southern water tribe was inuit looking.
and since sokka and kataras gran gran is from the northern water triiiibe...


----------



## Kirito (Aug 6, 2011)

Darth said:


> can anyone tell me who the artist for this picture was?



Yes, I second this motion.


----------



## Burke (Aug 6, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Yes, I second this motion.



whoever they are, they obviously arent dedicated toph fans.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 6, 2011)

N??ps said:


> whoever they are, they obviously arent dedicated toph fans.



but i liked the picture, anything toph-related is likeable


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

I saw that Toph image on Tumblr the other day. Maybe you could find out where it originated from by checking Tumblr?


----------



## Kirito (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I saw that Toph image on Tumblr the other day. Maybe you could find out where it originated from by checking Tumblr?



I don't know what Tumblr website that came from. I don't have a Tumblr account. Heck, I don't have an FB account. True story.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 6, 2011)

N??ps said:


> the reasoning for this was that the northern water tribe was caucasian looking, and that the southern water tribe was inuit looking.
> and since sokka and kataras gran gran is from the northern water triiiibe...



I don't have an IQ of 48. I understand that much but it was a pretty odd story choice to make regardless. It was only done to accommodate the casting of Jackson and Nicola. He shouldn't have bothered making the SWT inuit at all.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Kirito said:


> I don't know what Tumblr website that came from. I don't have a Tumblr account. Heck, I don't have an FB account. True story.



I don't have an account either, but here is Tumblr. 

A Heart Filled Reaction to Dissatisfaction


----------



## Jena (Aug 6, 2011)

lol


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Jena said:


> lol



And then he just blew off her problems like a jerk. 

Sokka was right -- jerks and their jerkbending.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I don't have an account either, but here is Tumblr.
> 
> A Heart Filled Reaction to Dissatisfaction



Thanks but ...

THE LAG


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 6, 2011)

Kirito said:


> Thanks but ...
> 
> THE LAG



That's all the gifs of Toph.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> And then he just blew off her problems like a jerk.
> 
> Sokka was right -- jerks and their jerkbending.




Zuko does not have to deal with every peasant commoner that latches onto his arm.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

Toph isn't just some peasant commoner.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 6, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Alicia Masters in Fantastic Four Movie
> 
> 
> Alicia Masters in The Comics
> ...



1. Katara and Sokka are of the main cast whose characters have a clear emphasis on real-life cultures they were derived from.

2. Yes people did.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 6, 2011)

Nothing is wrong with those actors, I love em'. But whenever I say there aren't as many big name minorities in Hollywood, or that it's a business dominated by White males, they pull out the same Black actors every single time in defense. I dared my friends once, they couldn't name _ten African-American actors._


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 7, 2011)

Toph may not be royalty, but she is pretty upper-class. 

As for the whole racebending issue in TLA, I could really care less about whether the actor is white, black or Mexican. What I care most about is being as true to the original characters' portrayals as possible. Dustin Hoffman as Captain James Hook pinned the character down hard, by looks and by hook. Shyamalan was not true to Bryke's Katara and Sokka at all.


----------



## Jena (Aug 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is wrong with those three actors? I believe that they are all tremendously skilled actors.


It's because whenever someone says, "there aren't any black actors in Hollywood!" someone brings up one of those three.
Or Samuel L. Jackson.

EDIT: Oh wait, Stunna already answered this.

Whateva.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

I thought the whole casting for the movie was terrible. Except Katara (and maybe Aang), she kinda looked like her. If only her acting was good...if only the film did better.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 7, 2011)

When I saw posters and commercials of TLA, I thought the actor looked...well, he actually tried to look as much as Aang was in the original. I don't know why they turned the arrow tattoo into a buncha henna tatoos, though...


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> When I saw posters and commercials of TLA, I thought the actor looked...well, he actually tried to look as much as Aang was in the original. I don't know why they turned the arrow tattoo into a buncha henna tatoos, though...



I guess they thought a straight blue arrow looked stupid or something...


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I guess they thought a straight blue arrow looked stupid or something...



id agree that it would look rediculous in real life


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

N??ps said:


> id agree that it would look rediculous in real life



Eh, I'm not sure myself. I guess I would have to see it first.

But its kinda pointless changing it since the the arrows were inspired by the Sky Bison and they obviously don't look like the movie tats. xD


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 7, 2011)

Still think an advanced society like China or Japan would be much better off as the Fire Nation. Some asian femme fatale playing Azula would've been awesome, imo. I don't think the race played much of a factor in why the movie sucked, but it was still a factor.


----------



## Jena (Aug 7, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _The best Aaang ever_ 









So cute. pek


----------



## Wan (Aug 7, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Hey, do you guys know what Jesse McCartney said about playing the part of Sokka? He said something along the lines of "Oh, I'll just have to get a tan and everything'll be fine" . You have to wonder whether or not this guy really cared about the fans.



Jackson Rathbone said that about play Sokka, not McCartney.  And no, I don't think he gave a damn about the fans.  Rathbone's a Shyamalan fanboy as he's demonstrated at appearances with him.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Zuko does not have to deal with every peasant commoner that latches onto his arm.



......... he's not that high and mighty 



Stunna said:


> Toph isn't just some peasant commoner.



You go bro


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 7, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Zuko does not have to deal with every peasant commoner that latches onto his arm.


Noble daughter > Exiled prince > Bumpkins 

Dragon of the West > All


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 7, 2011)

azulashootingirohwithfire.gif

You were saying? I viewed that scene as vengeance for him curbstomping and throwing her off her own ship in less than three seconds.


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 7, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> azulashootingirohwithfire.gif
> 
> You were saying? I viewed that scene as vengeance for him curbstomping and throwing her off her own ship in less than three seconds.



The look of shock on her face as Iroh diverted her lightning and threw her in the water was one of the highlights of that episode.

And that might have played a part in shooting Iroh later on, but I think she saw it as the best way out of that situation. He was distracted, she saw an opening and took her chances.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 7, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I thought the whole casting for the movie was terrible. Except Katara (and maybe Aang), she kinda looked like her. If only her acting was good...if only the film did better.



I remember when the movie cast was announced, the main defense some fans used for not choosing actors that resembled at least the ethnicity /skin tone of the main cast - _was because they probably chose the best actor/audition for the part..._ 

Yeah, look what happened there..


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 7, 2011)

She may be better suited to be Jun.



MunchKing said:


> The look of shock on her face as Iroh diverted her lightning and threw her in the water was one of the highlights of that episode.
> 
> And that might have played a part in shooting Iroh later on, but I think she saw it as the best way out of that situation. He was distracted, she saw an opening and took her chances.



I do think so. I just like to think she's a vengeful little bitch.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you familiar with ? She is a very skilled actress and martial artist, and while she is in her early thirties, she can still look very young with proper lightning and special effects. I believe that she would be very good as Azula, and if not Azula, then the bounty hunter, Jun.



Out of the two, she is better suited for Jun, but I don't really "see" it for them though.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 7, 2011)

I always wanted someone like her to play one of the Ozai's Angels...or even Jun.



She was from the movie Forbidden Kingdom (the one with Jet Li and Jackie Chan).


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 7, 2011)

Chiaki Kuriyama reminds me a little of Mai:


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Go Go Yubari as Mai? _Brilliant._


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Chiaki Kuriyama reminds me a little of Mai:



Wow, that is weird.  

She would play an amazing Mai!


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 7, 2011)

A live-action avatar movie made as an exact copy of the cartoon would be great. Same score/soundtrack even, but re-done to sound grander. Only using the most important parts of the series used I guess to fit in 2 hours. The races should be the same though, and the bending should be done with great cgi. Japaneese fire benders doing martial arts would have been perfect.

I can't believe the movie failed. It seems so easy to do. It's the type of cartoon that is so 'realistic' that it wouldn't need to be changed AT ALL for live-action. It should have been made EXACTLY the same essentially (just with stuff left out).

I can't stop imagining who the actors would be and how amazing some of the fights would be. It would essentially be a martial arts movie.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

They couldn't cover an entire season in two hours. No way. It's impossible. And I wouldn't want just a carbon copy of the show's soundtrack, I would want an original one. The only thing I would want carried over would be the main theme and maybe the Agni Kai.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 7, 2011)

Huh, Kill Bill's Go Go Yubari as Mai? Interesting choice. I wonder who would be good playing Ty Lee...


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 7, 2011)

Well I didn't say to cover an entire season in one movie, i said stuff would need to be missed out. But anyway...

I know what you mean about not wanting a carbon copy, but I'm just afraid if too much is changed it won't seem right. I just feel like the cartoon is already perfect when it comes the characters, story, architecture etc. Everything was so well thought out in so much detail that anything changed wouldn't make much sense to me.

I'm literaly searching for actors right now. Even looking at Twilight's native american werewolves for Sokka.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Season one is too episodic to be split into two movies, so it would have to be covered in one. However, since it lays the foundation for the rest of the series, there isn't a whole lot that one can afford to exclude, so it would have to be around two and a half to three hours long.


----------



## Glued (Aug 7, 2011)

Jon Foo as Zuko


Christina Milan for Katara


Tony Jaa as Sokka


This kid for Aang

[YOUTUBE]FHEY8NGtuD0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Meh, I'm indifferent. If I was head of casting for the movie, I'd be super picky.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 7, 2011)

That kid looks like he has Kenbunshoku Haki.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 7, 2011)

It's hard to find actors online. It would be easier to release a description of what we are looking for, which could attract unkown actors who fit too. Unkown and lesser known actors prefferably.

Don't know specific actors, but I would look for people like these:

15-25 y/o native americans (taned?) for Sokka, Katara and Yue
15-25 y/o asians (japanese?) for Zuko, Mai, Azula and Ty Lee
40-60 y/o asian (japanese?) for Iroh
30-50 y/o asian (japanese?) for Ozai
10-20 y/o asian (tibetan?) for Aang
10-20 y/o asian (chinese?) for Toph
40-60 y/o asian (or black?) for Bumi
30-50 y/o asian (japanese?) for Zhao
15-25 y/o asian (or black?) for Suki

'Teenage' cast need to look like teenagers (more relatable to 'western' kids?).

Possibly mixed race actors who are part white aswell for the teenage characters (more relatable to 'western' kids?).

Martial Arts backgrounds would be ideal too.


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

is it worth mentioning that aang legitly looks white


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 7, 2011)

Yeah so for live actiion I would try to find a mixed race actor who looks white as well as asian.


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

who also knows martial arts, and is a proficient actor...


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm sure someone like that exists, which is exactly why a decription would be released to attract people, rather than looking. It's a big world, lots of actors need to start somewhere so maybe unkown. Roles like the ones for something like this are rare too I guess, which is why we can't think of actors.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

I would precisely request someone Asian for Aang.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 7, 2011)

Probably should've been a more asian film, if he wanted to stay true to the "asian heritage".


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Seriously, I apologize if anyone is offended, but NO WHITE OR BLACK PEOPLE!


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

N??ps said:


> who also knows martial arts, and is a proficient actor...



Finding a kid who knows Martial Arts? Maybe.

Finding a kid who knows how to act (good)?

Really, really, really, really hard to find xD


----------



## Jena (Aug 7, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Seriously, I apologize if anyone is offended, but NO WHITE OR BLACK PEOPLE!



Samuel L. Jackson should've been Aang.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



None of those people look like the characters though.  I couldn't see the face of the kid, but still....

And Christina Milian as Katara? Why? She's too old looking and she doesn't look like her


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

really? rearry?
what does suki look like to you, honest


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Um... Chi-Chinese?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

N??ps said:


> really? rearry?
> what does suki look like to you, honest



Is this...toward me?


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

Noo, stunna.

vvvvvvvvv



Stunna said:


> Seriously, I apologize if anyone is offended, but NO WHITE OR BLACK PEOPLE!


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 7, 2011)

Many new people here have no idea that the Kyoshi Warriors were supposed to appear in the film, right? Here's a picture of Nicola Peltz (Katara) alongside Jessica Jade Andres (Suki-scenes cut).


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Many new people here have no idea that the Kyoshi Warriors were supposed to appear in the film, right? Here's a picture of Nicola Peltz (Katara) alongside Jessica Jade Andres (Suki-scenes cut).



Why would they cut the Kyoshi warriors out? She looks so perfect for Suki. Oh man.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

guys reminding yourselves of the awful movie  is only going to torture your souls... just do what princess azula would do

find M. Night Shyamalan, tell him he's weak in the movie industry and burn him to death


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 7, 2011)

There is no black or white in the ATLA world. Therefore, why should there be any in a live action movie? 

Heloves, you'd have to find Shyamalan first. Unfortunately, he's probably hiding out right now, working on something else as to hide his shame of his failure The Last Airbender.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> There is no black or white in the ATLA world. Therefore, why should there be any in a live action movie?
> 
> Heloves, you'd have to find Shyamalan first. Unfortunately, he's probably hiding out right now, working on something else as to hide his shame of his failure The Last Airbender.



all you gotta do is lie to him and tell him he can make the Thundercats live action movie.. he'll easily come out of his hiding spot and the ...bam ..burn him to death


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 7, 2011)

Plans for the sequels have been put on hold though right?

It would seem M. Nights plans for the trilogy has lost steam and no production studio wants to invest in it...


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

that's cause no one wants to invest M. Night's crap fest movies he's been doing


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Plans for the sequels have been put on hold though right?
> 
> It would seem M. Nights plans for the trilogy has lost steam and no production studio wants to invest in it...



There hasn't been word yet, but M.Night said he has written the next scripts. Its up to Paramount really, and I haven't seen/heard them say "no more".


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> There hasn't been word yet, but M.Night said he has written the next scripts. Its up to Paramount really, and I haven't seen/heard them say "no more".



                                .


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Anyone play the Avatar games? Not the movie one, but the PS2/Wii games? I'm playing Burning Earth (yes, just for Toph! xD) but its pretty funny. A lot of the game has been twisted differently like 
*Spoiler*: __ 



while in the swamp, Katara finds a village and Jet appears.




I was wanting to ask if you guys found it fun. The only having 2-3 moves really ticks me off though 



Heloves said:


> .



Haters gonna hate, I say.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Anyone play the Avatar games? Not the movie one, but the PS2/Wii games? I'm playing Burning Earth (yes, just for Toph! xD) but its pretty funny. A lot of the game has been twisted differently like
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Not true... suckage gonna suck :WOW


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 7, 2011)

M. Night has said that there were other projects he wanted to do in between the movies. Hopefully they distract him enough that he loses interest in the franchise.


I've got all three video games. I liked the first one, even though it was made pre-Toph and thus you are stuck with Haru. There's something oddly relaxing about the otherwordly "Momo Mode."

Burning Earth is probably the best one, even though it merely adapts Book 2, whereas the first game was an original story.

Into the Inferno was kind of disappointing, but it had some interesting levels.


----------



## Jena (Aug 7, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> M. Night has said that there were other projects he wanted to do in between the movies. Hopefully they distract him enough that he loses interest in the franchise.
> 
> 
> I've got all three video games. I liked the first one, even though it was made pre-Toph and thus you are stuck with Haru. There's something oddly relaxing about the otherwordly "Momo Mode."
> ...



Are any of those for the Wii? 

A few years ago my friend had an Avatar game for Wii that was surprisingly fun, but for the life of me I can't remember which one it was.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Man, I would kill for an Avatar fighting game that played like Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, both in battle and with an adventure-RPG style story mode.

/has never played that game


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

i cant believe that they never saw the potential for an avatar fighter...
maybe we'll get one with korra


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

I always imagined that instead of being a fighting game where you mashed buttons to pull off combos, you would combine the buttons and D-Pad with detailed motions executed with the right analog stick to truly capture all of the fluent motions and techniques used to bend in the show.

An example... anyone ever play the Skate video games? You know how to pull off tricks you would flick the analog stick in a certain pattern like a zigzag or something? It would be like that, but vary depending on what kind of art you're manipulating. Waterbending and Airbending would be more fluent, while, say, Earthbending would require the mashing of the R and L3 buttons.

Does anyone think that would be too complicated?


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

wait, maybe its cause avatar was never about punches... that is until korra gets here


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

so in the new series of Avatar...their will be more advanced technology?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> M. Night has said that there were other projects he wanted to do in between the movies. *Hopefully they distract him enough that he loses interest in the franchise.*




I at least hope his other projects will be good. I haven't had a good M.Night movie since...well, since Signs. I only saw two other movies after that, which I guess was decent.



Ms. Jove said:


> I've got all three video games. I liked the first one, even though it was made pre-Toph and thus you are stuck with Haru. There's something oddly relaxing about the otherwordly "Momo Mode."
> 
> Burning Earth is probably the best one, even though it merely adapts Book 2, whereas the first game was an original story.
> 
> Into the Inferno was kind of disappointing, but it had some interesting levels.


All three of them?  

My little brother laughed when he saw me with Momo bending food. He was like "Momo can't do that!" 

What's the differences between Burning Earth and Into the Inferno? I mean in controls etc etc. I heard that Inferno has more moves for the characters, but its got horrible gameplay.  I hope its at least fun because I ordered it a few days ago. 

I'm not even going to give the movie game a try. I learned my lesson playing the Eragon game before I saw the movie. 

@Jena:
This is all I know of for the Wii.







> Man, I would kill for an Avatar fighting game that played like Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, both in battle and with an adventure-RPG style story mode.


That would be amazing.


----------



## Jena (Aug 7, 2011)

N??ps said:


> i cant believe that they never saw the potential for an avatar fighter...
> maybe we'll get one with korra



This might be blasphemous (because the internet hates the Wii), but an Avatar fighting game would be _excellent_ for the Wii.

Since bending is all about movement, I think it could be converted very easily to Wii. You might look silly, but I think it'd be fun.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 7, 2011)

N??ps said:


> i cant believe that they never saw the potential for an avatar fighter...
> maybe we'll get one with korra



I said it years ago on another forum. Imagine all the different locations you can pull from the avatar series to have the stages.

How about a stage with the full moon and you have to be versing a waterbender or even Katara/Hama? How about a stage with Sozin's Comet overhead? Or the desert which would handicap Tophs fighting style. 

A lot of variables can be put into the game, and the different fighting styles would be great to play, and all the alternate costumes you can get for the characters - Zuko as Blue Spirit, or Suki with her Kyoshi warrior dress but you can still unlock her FN outfit. Ozai's Angels in Kyoshi warriors outfits too...


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I always imagined that instead of being a fighting game where you mashed buttons to pull off combos, you would combine the buttons and D-Pad with detailed motions executed with the right analog stick to truly capture all of the fluent motions and techniques used to bend in the show.
> 
> An example... anyone ever play the Skate video games? You know how to pull off tricks you would flick the analog stick in a certain pattern like a zigzag or something? It would be like that, but vary depending on what kind of art you're manipulating. Waterbending and Airbending would be more fluent, while, say, Earthbending would require the mashing of the R and L3 buttons.
> 
> Does anyone think that would be too complicated?





Jena said:


> This might be blasphemous (because the internet hates the Wii), but an Avatar fighting game would be _excellent_ for the Wii.
> 
> Since bending is all about movement, I think it could be converted very easily to Wii. You might look silly, but I think it'd be fun.


Way to completely void my overly-complicated efforts.


----------



## Jena (Aug 7, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Way to completely void my overly-complicated efforts.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Well, I suppose my controls can be Xbox and PS3 exclusive.



Unless you have Move and, or, Kinect...


----------



## Ippy (Aug 7, 2011)

People of NF, help settle this debate between me and Jove....

I postulate that earthbenders, as a whole, are the most creative and resourceful of every bender shown throughout the Avatar series.  This is shown from the beginning.  Every single earthbender, with a name, in the series has shown creativity that far surpasses the standard "FIRE PUNCH!" and "WATER GUN!" from every other bender.

Boomy digs around like he's a mole, the Dai Li pretend they're ice skating (not to mention their smooth in-tandem attack system and wearing earth gloves/mini-cannonballs), Hippo created earthquakes, and they ALL send opponents flying with stone pillars, make small shifts in the ground to throw their balance off, create stone barriers, create stone prisons, turn the ground into quicksand, make statues, use those same statues as weapons, make houses, use those same houses as weapons, etc...

And notice I never mentioned any of the dozens of shit Toph pulled out her ass.

Jove feels that airbenders take this, for some odd reason.


----------



## Koi (Aug 7, 2011)

His name is Bumi.

So Jove wins.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Well, I don't know who you are, but Earthbending is most definitely the most resourceful, and arguable strongest art out of the four.


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

jove wins
sorreh


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

No he doesn't. Anything other benders can do, Earthbenders can do better. 

Y'know, except wash stuff... or set stuff on fire.


----------



## Jena (Aug 7, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Well, I suppose my controls can be Xbox and PS3 exclusive.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you have Move and, or, Kinect...



Hardly anyone has move or kinect 

No, it makes sense to put logic behind it. I think it's fair to say that most people use xbox or PS3. Aside from Twilight Princess and Brawl, the Wii doesn't have a whole lot of good games.




Ippy said:


> People of NF, help settle this debate between me and Jove....
> 
> I postulate that earthbenders, as a whole, are the most creative and resourceful of every bender shown throughout the Avatar series.  This is shown from the beginning.  Every single earthbender, with a name, in the series has shown creativity that far surpasses the standard "FIRE PUNCH!" and "WATER GUN!" from every other bender.
> 
> ...



Katara got creative sometimes...

But on the whole, I agree that earthbenders were the most resourceful. Although to be fair the firebenders, they can't touch the element that they're working with so it's a little harder.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Earthbending. And no, I'm not just saying that because I am freakishly in love with it, but because its true. 

No bias. I promise. :sweat

There's not a lot of creativity behind Air bending. I mean there is, but its pretty limited me thinks. Sooner or later the bender will run out of ideas


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Earthbending. And no, I'm not just saying that because I am freakishly in love with it, but because its true.
> 
> No bias. I promise. :sweat
> 
> There's not a lot of creativity behind Air bending. I mean there is, but its pretty limited me thinks. Sooner or later the bender will run out of ideas



tis would be a biased comment madam

Toph pwns all?


----------



## God (Aug 7, 2011)

Toph was easily the most creative bender in the series, so I agree with that ish


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

Cubey said:


> Toph was easily the most creative bender in the series, so I agree with that ish



the hell you doing here Cube .......I didn't know you liked Avatar


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

yeah, the mafia world is leaking into this thread


----------



## Ippy (Aug 7, 2011)

Katara wasn't the average waterbender though.  She was a prodigy.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 7, 2011)

Does anyone hope that there shall be a firebender who can generate lightning in _The Legend of Korra?_ I certainly hope so, so that that fascinating ability is not lost.

On that subject, might Korra learn to generate lightning? Thus far, four firebenders have been shown to have the ability to generate lightning (although Zuko failed to master the ability), but none of them were Avatars. I would very much like to see an avatar learn to generate lightning, although I fear that possessing that ability would make them even more overpowered than they already are as the Avatar. What does everyone else say about that?


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 7, 2011)

Airbenders are incredibly creative, I'd say, just as the Earthbenders are. It's a tough call, imo.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Heloves said:


> tis would be a biased comment madam
> 
> *Toph pwns all? *



That's not bias. Its fact. 



> Toph was easily the most creative bender in the series, so I agree with that ish


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

I really want to see an Earthbender using his art to fly.


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

like terra, the best "earthbender" ever


----------



## Jena (Aug 7, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Gangster_


----------



## Ippy (Aug 7, 2011)

Of course Toph was the shit, but I'm talking about the _average_ Joebender.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Does anyone hope that there shall be a firebender who can generate lightning in _The Legend of Korra?_ I certainly hope so, so that that fascinating ability is not lost.
> 
> On that subject, might Korra learn to generate lightning? Thus far, four firebenders have been shown to have the ability to generate lightning (although Zuko failed to master the ability), but none of them were Avatars. I would very much like to see an avatar learn to generate lightning, although I fear that possessing that ability would make them even more overpowered than they already are as the Avatar. What does everyone else say about that?



wouldn't she actually need to be overpowered since her enemies now possess heat seeking missiles and stuff like that?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 7, 2011)

My point was that Airbenders were the more creative peoples, but limited by their element.

Waterbenders inherently have more creative potential due to the ability to change the properties of their elements.

Earthbenders are naturally stubborn and grounded. Obviously we would have a greater sampling of them because Earthbenders clearly outnumber the other bending disciplines. Anything an Earthbender on Earth can do a Waterbender can do on water, and do it whilst changing the state of the element itself.


Firebending, of course, is the superior discipling because Roku and Hawky were Fire Nation. That's not disputable.



So if Ippy's point is that we were shown more creativity by Earthbenders on the show, then I wouldn't necessarily disagree. And that is such an Ippy point to make by the way. 

But yes, we've seen a greater volume of creative Earthbending, simply from Toph, Bumi, and the Earth Rumble competitors, all high class benders. 



In summary:


Airbenders are the most creative people.

Waterbenders have the highest ceiling for creativity.

Earthbenders were shown in the most creative situations on the show, by volume.

The balance between being a creative people and having an element that affords that creativity is found in Waterbending.


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

jove approved


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

so are Firebenders the least creative ones?


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

the rainbow fire from the dragons was impressive, but yeah, firebending is usually straight foward


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 7, 2011)

It's just a matter of finesse and cold calculation when it comes to firebending and its intent of destruction. There's only so many ways you can kill someone.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> It's just a matter of finesse and cold calculation when it comes to firebending and its intent of destruction. There's only so many ways you can kill someone.



I would so love to have seen a phoenix fire bending by either  Azula or Osai


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I really want to see an Earthbender using his art to fly.



They can use it to shoot themselves up into the air...who knows maybe one could levitate rock while on it?



N??ps said:


> like terra, the best "earthbender" ever



Toph is so awesome she's the best bender of all time.

Why, I bet if she wanted to, she could turn herself into an Avatar and > all others even more.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 7, 2011)

Firebending is hard because, like air, it can be limiting. But if you have an Iroh-like liberal attitude about bending, firebending can be creatively potent.

But like Earthbenders, Firebending aligns itself with a kind of personality that doesn't lend itself to creativity. It's just that while earthbenders are more austere, firebenders are more impulsive. Equal levels of straightforwardness, though.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Firebending is hard because, like air, it can be limiting. But if you have an Iroh-like liberal attitude about bending, firebending can be creatively potent.
> 
> But like Earthbenders, Firebending aligns itself with a kind of personality that doesn't lend itself to creativity. It's just that while earthbenders are more austere, firebenders are more impulsive. Equal levels of straightforwardness, though.



oh I see.......so basically the personality causes a reaction in a way a bender uses their element?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 7, 2011)

Maybe. It definitely seems like there is a certain personality and charm to each element. Which one influences the other is debatable. It definitely exists, though.


Which is why Korra is so great. She has a Firebender's personality, and from what we can ascertain in the trailer, she clearly loves Firebending.

So the question then becomes, is that something limited to Avatars, or can any bender take on the personality of  done of the other disciplines. I mean, we saw Iroh incorporate Waterbending philosophy into his bending, and he definitely had the disposition of an Airbender, but he was definitely a Firebender.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Forgive me if this a idiotic question, but what does personality exactly do to the person? I was skimming through an avatar board a couple nights ago and they were talking about the same thing. They said the personality makes the bender and gives them their element?

Is this true? :/


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

I've never heard that.

Your bending art is in the genes, your personality doesn't determine it. However, generally, benders of certain elements respectively have certain personality traits influenced by such.

Earthbenders are adamant, Firebenders are passionate, Airbenders are passive, and Waterbenders influential. Or something like that, don't quote me.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I've never heard that.
> 
> Your bending art is in the genes, your personality doesn't determine it. However, generally, benders of certain elements respectively have certain personality traits influenced by such.
> 
> Earthbenders are adamant, Firebenders are passionate, Airbenders are passive, and Waterbenders influential. Or something like that, don't quote me.



quoted


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

Negged.**


----------



## Burke (Aug 7, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I've never heard that.
> 
> Your bending art is in the genes, your personality doesn't determine it. However, generally, benders of certain elements respectively have certain personality traits influenced by such.
> 
> Earthbenders are adamant, Firebenders are passionate, Airbenders are passive, and Waterbenders influential. Or something like that, don't quote me.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 7, 2011)

You get negged too.

Edit: Nevermind, I must spread before I neg.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 7, 2011)

....... why you neg though?


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 7, 2011)

It's in their genes, but their personality reflects their element. Aang's passive, Azula/Zuko's driven, Katara's cohesive/compassionate, Toph's determined.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 7, 2011)

Oh, okay then.

I wonder what it would have been like if it were so.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 8, 2011)

Like Piandao said about the sword, creativity does not belong to any one Nation. It belongs to us all.


----------



## God (Aug 8, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> It's in their genes, but their personality reflects their element. Aang's passive, Azula/Zuko's driven, Katara's cohesive/compassionate, Toph's determined.



That's not always true. Roku was rather passive (and he paid quite the price for that).

Anyways, in terms of creativity it goes:

- Earth



- Water







- Air





































- Fire


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 8, 2011)

Whats the difference between Air and Fire when it comes to creativity?

Out of all the bending they seem to be the most alike....


----------



## Darth (Aug 8, 2011)

Nobody ever found out who the artist of the Toph picture was. 

Who was the guy who posted it?


----------



## Kirito (Aug 8, 2011)

It's one of the 8 Great Mysteries of the Avatar-verse.


----------



## God (Aug 8, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Whats the difference between Air and Fire when it comes to creativity?
> 
> Out of all the bending they seem to be the most alike....



Well there's the air launcher and the air ball lol.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 8, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Whats the difference between Air and Fire when it comes to creativity?
> 
> Out of all the bending they seem to be the most alike....



Both air and fire are immaterial and focus on swiftness and flexibility, as neither air (using the term "air" in a loose and unscientific sense) nor fire have a defined shape, changing their form to adapt to their environment. Earth and water, in contrast, are usually much more dense and focus more strongly on strength rather than swiftness. Earth usually does not change its shape or form unless acted upon by external forces, and water can be either unchanging or always-changing, depending upon its form. Most benders will develop personalities that seem to match the temperament of their corresponding element, although this tendency is by no means a strict rule, as benders of the same element often display different personalities (one of the best examples being Iroh and Ozai).


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 8, 2011)

I don't see Air and Fire as being very alike in the _Avatar_ world. Fire seems to usually emphasise offence and quick, direct and powerful attacks designed to crush the enemy as soon as possible. (Which is why it's no surprise that they used Northern Shaolin as an influence.)

Air, on the other hand, seems to stress the exact opposite -- defence and countering, movement and indirection. If you look at Aang's fights with Zuko, most of the time he tries to do the same thing, which is simply evading or dissipating the fire while trying to counter afterwards. He rarely leads the action, and while Fire has a lot of straight, arrow-like motions, Air is much more about circular movements.

I think the natural companion of Air is Water, at least in regard to the mentality and style of most of the users -- look how naturally it comes to Aang, and how he seems to genuinely enjoy practising it. (Because it's not as dangerous and hard to control as Fire, and Earth requires more of a direct approach that doesn't come naturally to him.) I look upon Air and Water as being the 'passive' arts, while Earth and Fire seem to require more of an explosive or direct mentality. 

In terms of creativity...it's true that we don't see much for Air and Fire, but one subtle thing I always liked is how Aang sometimes uses his Airbending to increase the grace and speed of his footwork. A good example is the match he has against Toph, where she tries to send an attack at him and the audience gets to see how he lightly moves aside, almost as if floating for a moment. Toph even points it out when she says something like, 'someone's a little light on their feet...'


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 8, 2011)

Cubey said:


> Well there's the air launcher and the air ball lol.



Dont Firebenders have the fire propulsion to "ski" on the ground and the fire boosts to change directions in the air during a fall?

Not to mention the inherit ability to melt ice, heat up your body and heat your tea.

Also lightningbending...that can shatter rocks/earth.

Fire whips, fire daggers and fire dragons(?) used by the FN performers at one of the festivals...


----------



## Glued (Aug 8, 2011)

Fire is energy, there are so many things you can do with that shit.


----------



## Quaero (Aug 8, 2011)

Darth said:


> Nobody ever found out who the artist of the Toph picture was.
> 
> Who was the guy who posted it?



I was. 

Link here. 

Public service announcement: Google now has a reverse image search (Which is how I found the Artist just now)


----------



## Quaero (Aug 8, 2011)

Based on the show's lore, Airbending is the most creative bending art. As we have been told, the test to become a master airbender is to create a completely new technique.

With that fact alone you can argue that the discipline has easily thousands of different moves.

The problem is that Airbenders are, for obvious reasons, underrepresented in the show, which leads the a lack of variety in what we see.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

Cubey said:


> That's not always true. Roku was rather passive (and he paid quite the price for that).



I think he was more passive because of his duty to show restrain and balance as the Avatar. Half the times we saw Roku, he was already an old and experienced man. We saw some of his youth, and he was energetic and playful and fun, but as he grew, he had to take on the mantle of being the Avatar, and as such, it would reflect on his personality somewhat. Different Avatars had different mentalities. 

Kuruk was easy going and free-spirited like a typical waterbender would be, Kyoshi was far more professional and militaristic (determined and strong-willed like earth), Yangchen was more open-minded and peaceful (like air). Roku was passionate and driven like fire, but his status as the Avatar changed his entire world for him, and conversely, his personality for the most part. Aside from that, he was also meant to be shown as the passive, non-aggressive previous Avatar from whom Aang would have to make up for his mistakes. I think that accounts for some of it, as well.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm finally back, everyone, fill me in, I don't feel like reading 20 pages D:


----------



## Burke (Aug 8, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I'm finally back, everyone, fill me in, I don't feel like reading 20 pages D:



LB showed up and engaged into some azula stuff which led to toph versus azula.

then we talked about the movie for a bit

and most recently were debating which element users are most creative


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 8, 2011)

And there was an endless discussion about whether Ozai was evil or psychotic.


I'm sure we've debated that long before but I can't recall what we concluded.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 8, 2011)

I still am very interested to learn more about Korra's personality, and if she is similar to any other waterbenders who have been seen previously or very different.

I notice that at the beginning of the series, Korra is stated to have already mastered waterbending, firebending, and earthbending, and that she has both a firebender and an earthbender as her companions, so is it possible that Mako and Bolin taught her how to bend fire and earth, respectively? I would find that to be very interesting, indeed.


----------



## Wan (Aug 8, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I still am very interested to learn more about Korra's personality, and if she is similar to any other waterbenders who have been seen previously or very different.



She'll be like Master Pakku. 



> I notice that at the beginning of the series, Korra is stated to have already mastered waterbending, firebending, and earthbending, and that she has both a firebender and an earthbender as her companions, so is it possible that Mako and Bolin taught her how to bend fire and earth, respectively? I would find that to be very interesting, indeed.



Nah, I find it more probable that they learned alongside her.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 8, 2011)

I assumed Korra met them in the United Republic in her search for Tenzin.


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 8, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I still am very interested to learn more about Korra's personality, and if she is similar to any other waterbenders who have been seen previously or very different.
> 
> I notice that at the beginning of the series, Korra is stated to have already mastered waterbending, firebending, and earthbending, and that she has both a firebender and an earthbender as her companions, so is it possible that Mako and Bolin taught her how to bend fire and earth, respectively? I would find that to be very interesting, indeed.



At the end of the trailer, it shows Bolin pointing looking surprised. I think that could be the first time they met. And it's been stated that all she needs to learn is Airbending and she knows how to bend Fire and Earth, like you said.

I dunno though.

But I if they did teach her how to bend Fire and Earth, it would be a little too much TLA.


----------



## Wan (Aug 8, 2011)

IIRC, in the trailer there's a quick clip of her fighting Mako and of course at the end Bolin says in a squeaky, awed voice, "the -- AVATAR!" So yeah, she probably didn't know them before coming to Republic City.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

> I still am very interested to learn more about Korra's personality, and if she is similar to any other waterbenders who have been seen previously or very different.


Didn't they say she'd be like Toph or fiery or something like that...?  



Quaero said:


> _Public service announcement: Google now has a reverse image search (Which is how I found the Artist just now)_


My brother showed that to me a few days ago. I can't believe I forgot about it.  What's worse is, I was faving that image on Da and was following the user


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

In before ban.


----------



## Darth (Aug 8, 2011)

There was a Toph vs Azula debate?

I feel sorry for Azula...


----------



## Darth (Aug 8, 2011)

Quaero said:


> I was.
> 
> Link here.
> 
> Public service announcement: Google now has a reverse image search (Which is how I found the Artist just now)



You're awesome. 

Surprisingly, the rest of her art isn't nearly as good. 

Still, you're awesome.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

Darth said:


> There was a Toph vs Azula debate?
> 
> I feel sorry for Azula...



We all concluded Toph > Azula in a fight. pek


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

You should feel sorry for Toph. 

How does the reverse image thing work?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> You should feel sorry for Toph.
> 
> How does the reverse image thing work?


Why would we? Toph is boss. 

Go to Google, click images and drag the image into the search bar. I think... :/


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

I agree she's boss. But Azula's a boss bitch. And boss bitches > boss.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 8, 2011)

as much as it pains to kill me  ... Azula would  pwn Toph ...


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

Heloves said:


> as much as it pains to kill me  ... Azula would  pwn Toph ...


No. 

Toph would rockalanche Azula or bend a metal suit and destroy her. 


LegendaryBeauty said:


> I agree she's boss. But Azula's a boss bitch. And boss bitches > boss.


So not true. Not even Azula's lightning would touch Toph.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

Metal -> Conductive

Genius idea. And why wouldn't Azula's lightning not touch her?


----------



## Heloves (Aug 8, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> No.
> 
> Toph would rockalanche Azula or bend a metal suit and destroy her.
> 
> So not true. Not even Azula's lightning would touch Toph.



Don't deny...Toph is a fantastic  fighter but she'd get killed due to the fact she doesn't know how to redirect lightning ..


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

Heloves said:


> Don't deny...Toph is a fantastic  fighter but she'd get killed due to the fact she doesn't know how to redirect lightning ..



That doesn't matter. She could either use her metal suit her cover herself in some rock, like the crystals.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 8, 2011)

Lightning would blast her right out of a rock suit.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 8, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> That doesn't matter. She could either use her metal suit her cover herself in some rock, like the crystals.



the fire bending would melt the suit ..


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

Lightning exploded Toph's huge barrier in The Chase. Why wouldn't it do the same to her rock suit?


----------



## Wan (Aug 8, 2011)

Lightning smashes rock.  Metal conducts electricity.  Any other way for Toph to survive lightning?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Lightning would blast her right out of a rock suit.



Depends on how strong of the suit she wears. 



Heloves said:


> the fire bending would melt the suit ..



Well, maybe if Toph just stood there, which she wouldn't. Remember in the last episodes? She used a metal suit against them and they were shooting fire at her. And their bending was like 434438943734x stronger that day.



> Lightning smashes rock. Metal conducts electricity. Any other way for Toph to survive lightning?


A video was posted during our last discussion. You should watch it 

I guess we'll never know the outcome. Azula can no longer fight 'cause she be insane and stuff


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

I always wondered why Toph didn't melt inside her suit when they were firebending at her metal.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 8, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Depends on how strong of the suit she wears.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



and brutally kill Toph .........


----------



## Wan (Aug 8, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> A video was posted during our last discussion. You should watch it



Toph probably could raise a thick enough rock wall to block Azula's lighting (it would have to be really thick, since Azula's blasted through Toph's rock walls before) but simple rock armor or metal armor wouldn't cut it against Azula's lightning.  She'd get fried.  Period.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

Oman said:


> Toph probably could raise a thick enough rock wall to block Azula's lighting (it would have to be really thick, since Azula's blasted through Toph's rock walls before) but simple rock armor or metal armor wouldn't cut it against Azula's lightning.  She'd get fried.  Period.



Go watch the video I mentioned. It would show why Lightning wouldn't effect her. 



> I always wondered why Toph didn't melt inside her suit when they were firebending at her metal.


'Cause its Avatar world and that kinda stuff can't happen.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 8, 2011)

Wow, that started up quick again.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

Plot shield. Got'cha.


----------



## Wan (Aug 8, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Go watch the video I mentioned. It would show why Lightning wouldn't effect her.



_How?_  Unless you can prove the metal she uses is non-conductive, nothing you post would matter a single bit.  It doesn't matter how much fire the metal armor has taken, the lightning would conduct right through the armor and fry her.  End of story.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 8, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Plot shield. Got'cha.



 even in Avatar none of the main characters can die


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

Heloves said:


> even in Avatar none of the main characters can die



Speaking of death's, Jet's. Lol @ him being killed by an earth-bent blow to the chest, while Zuko (IIRC) had the same thing done to him in Zuko Alone and he just shrugged it off. Then again, I suppose Long Feng > fodder.


----------



## Darth (Aug 8, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Lightning exploded Toph's huge barrier in The Chase. Why wouldn't it do the same to her rock suit?



Notice how the lightning didn't penetrate through the wall? This isn't Naruto. Lightning in Avatar is explosive. If Toph makes a wall to block, Azula isn't hitting her. At best, she'll blow Toph off her feet temporarily. But seeing as we've seen Toph duck and roll more than almost anyone in the series, I somehow doubt it's an issue. 

Also Terra, can you link me to this video?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Wow, that started up quick again.



They r jelly Toph is better 



Oman said:


> _How?_  [Unless you can prove the metal she uses is non-conductive, nothing you post would matter a single bit. It doesn't matter how much fire the metal armor has taken, the lightning would conduct right through the armor and fry her.  End of story.





It was Quaero who posted the videos by the way. Maybe he can provide more?


----------



## Heloves (Aug 8, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Speaking of death's, Jet's. Lol @ him being killed by an earth-bent blow to the chest, while Zuko (IIRC) had the same thing done to him in Zuko Alone and he just shrugged it off. Then again, I suppose Long Feng > fodder.



 that's true... man  plot shield can suck sometimes


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

Let's break it down for you, Terra. 

1.) Electricity likes to be conducted.
2.) Metal is conductive.
3.) Electricity likes to ground itself.
4.) If you touch a conductive metal with electricity going through it, you get electrocuted.
5.) If you wear an entire suit from head to toe made of metal, and get shot with not electricity, but _lightning_, then you are fried.

Simple as that.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 8, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> They r jelly Toph is better



Well, I'm not jealous and I still give Azula a 65-35 edge. 


And gradually Toph narrows that to the 50-50 range as she gets older.


----------



## Burke (Aug 8, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Let's break it down for you, Terra.
> 
> 1.) Electricity likes to be conducted.
> 2.) Metal is conductive.
> ...



you are so friend.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Let's break it down for you, Terra.
> 
> 1.) Electricity likes to be conducted.
> 2.) Metal is conductive.
> ...



That was lightning in the video, wasn't it?  If it was, he was touching it and didn't get fried. 

Well, either way. This is Avatar world. Remember the metal suits being attacked by fire 



> Well, I'm not jealous and I still give Azula a 65-35 edge.
> 
> And gradually Toph narrows that to the 50-50 range as she gets older.


You all disappoint me.


----------



## Wan (Aug 8, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> It was Quaero who posted the videos by the way. Maybe he can provide more?



So...a specially designed modern suit can conduct voltages much _less_ than a lightning strike away from the wearer.

Somehow I don't think a door crumpled into a makeshift suit is going to have the same effect against a lightning bolt.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

That's hardly lightning. That's a small current of electricity. You can't compare something with millions more of volts to that.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

Oman said:


> So...a specially designed modern suit can conduct voltages much _less_ than a lightning strike away from the wearer.
> 
> _Somehow I don't think a door crumpled into a makeshift suit is going to have the same effect against a lightning bolt. _



Who said she had to use a door for her suit if she fought Azula? 

Makeshift? Toph does and makes everything perfect.


----------



## Darth (Aug 8, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Who said she had to use a door for her suit if she fought Azula?
> 
> Makeshift? Toph does and makes everything perfect.



Exactly. But even without metal, she can still defend herself against lightning with earth. And honestly, she can put on a suit of rock and then cover it with metal to avoid being electrocuted if that is indeed the case.

Toph has a thousand and one more defensive options than Azula, who gets knocked unconscious from the first solid hit.


----------



## Wan (Aug 8, 2011)

Darth said:


> Exactly. But even without metal, she can still defend herself against lightning with earth. And honestly, she can put on a suit of rock and then cover it with metal to avoid being electrocuted if that is indeed the case.
> 
> Toph has a thousand and one more defensive options than Azula, who gets knocked unconscious from the first solid hit.



Or she just jumps on top of whatever rock Toph throws at her like she did in DoBS.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 8, 2011)

So the lightning would conduct to the metal, and ground itself on the earth and....still electrocute Toph. And while I think Toph's good, I don't think she's good enough to simultaneously bend earth and metal around herself while moving around and fighting, and bending more earth. It's also restrict her movement, I'd imagine.

Azula's yet to be touched. She has no durability feats, because she's never been hit. She's quick on her feet, and Aang, a fast character, said he couldn't pin her down. How can Toph?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 8, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> So the lightning would conduct to the metal, and ground itself on the earth and....still electrocute Toph. And while I think Toph's good, I don't think she's good enough to simultaneously bend earth and metal around herself while moving around and fighting, and bending more earth. It's also restrict her movement, I'd imagine.
> 
> Azula's yet to be touched. She has no durability feats, because she's never been hit. She's quick on her feet, and Aang, a fast character, said he couldn't pin her down. How can Toph?



Well he couldn't pin her down 'cause she was running away. 

I guess its a battle we'll never know the outcome to. lol


----------



## Stunna (Aug 8, 2011)

I always wanted to see Zhao and Azula fight. The latter would obviously win, but just to see them interact.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 9, 2011)

Hmm, Dr. Megavolt has taken up to 200,000 volts in his suit.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 9, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Metal -> Conductive
> 
> Genius idea. And why wouldn't Azula's lightning not touch her?


Actually, science says so.

If Toph threw up a wall of metal mesh, or even a wall, it would harmlessly stop the lightning, as a faraday cage. Even if it wasn't grounded, the electricity would travel over the surface of the metal. If it was, then just into the ground.

An earth wall works well too, because of the density of the rock, and generally non-conductive.

And volts don't really matter, it's the amps that kill you.

A small amount of volts could be more lethal than lots of volts, if the amps were high enough.

But it's correct to assume that lightning is lethal, the higher the voltage, the further is reaches, and the smallest lightning strike has more than enough lethal amperage.

Since it only takes a few milliamps to stop a heart.

But really, lightning is only a tiny part of the battle, Azula is quick, she could run on walls, yet Toph can anticipate many attacks and she's probably fast enough to have a defense and an attack up at the same time.


LegendaryBeauty said:


> I always wondered why Toph didn't melt inside her suit when they were firebending at her metal.



Could be specific heat, iron has a low specific heat, so it heats up fast, but it also cools down fast. 

A sustained flame would be very uncomfortable, but they were throwing short bursts at her, and her armor has a lot of surface area compared to how much the fire covers, and the amount of time between hits would be enough for it the cool off.


----------



## Shade (Aug 9, 2011)

I feel for OBD regs; they must have to deal with this bringing of scientific accuracy into magical anime battles quite often.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 9, 2011)

I didn't start it xD


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 9, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I didn't start it xD




Yea, I think it was me who started it...or maybe LB


----------



## Kirito (Aug 9, 2011)

Shade said:


> I feel for OBD regs; they must have to deal with this bringing of scientific accuracy into magical anime battles quite often.



You also cannot miss the trolling and the +1 posts.

On topic: Where is the match held? Hyperbolic time chamber? Or the Fire Lord's palace? During Sozin's Comet or not? It will have an effect on how powerful Azula will be.


----------



## Quaero (Aug 9, 2011)

About why lightning doesn't work when covered in metal. 

The lightning wants to ground itself, and it has 2 materials to choose from, highly conductive metal, or a less conductive body, electricity always chooses the path of least resistance, so  the body is unharmed. 

This is called a Faraday cage.

Edit: Basically, what ReikaiDemon just said.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 9, 2011)

We thoroughly discussed the Faraday Cage several pages ago, with videos and everything. It is not a valid argument to say Toph's armor would be conductive and that she'd be fried as a result. I'm not sure why LB brought it up again, unless she supposed that we forgot about it in 48 hours.


That said, metal armor suit is not a surefire strategy for Toph. Azula's firebending is powerful enough to make her regret that cocoon.


----------



## Quaero (Aug 9, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> We thoroughly discussed the Faraday Cage several pages ago, with videos and everything. It is not a valid argument. I'm not sure why LB brought it up again, unless she supposed that we forgot about it in 48 hours.



We discussed it, but I don't remember anyone saying it wasn't valid...

Why was it invalid as an argument?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 9, 2011)

Sorry. I meant that LB's conduction argument is invalid.


----------



## Quaero (Aug 9, 2011)

Ah, carry on then.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 9, 2011)

Trying to use science to prove me wrong.  Blasphemous.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 9, 2011)

It is a bit blasphemous, but I think Avaverse lightning would behave the same as real lightning once generated.

Don't give up on Azula. Don't give up. Don't give up on her.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 9, 2011)

The lightning would conduct to the more conductive metal as opposed to the human, but if someone's holding metal that's being conducted, wouldn't it course through them and ground as well?  It's just hard to understand the concept of being covered in a conductive substance and _not_ get electrocuted. I may as well be covered in water and enter a room full of exposed electrical wires.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 9, 2011)

The funny thing is that electrical workers wear conductive suits to protect themselves from electricity 

The thing is though, in a battle of long distance vs. Toph, she can hold down the fort really well.

However, we've haven't seen her hand to hand capabilities against another opponent out for blood. Azula has excellent hand to hand skill.


----------



## Quaero (Aug 9, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> The lightning would conduct to the more conductive metal as opposed to the human, but if someone's holding metal that's being conducted, wouldn't it course through them and ground as well?  It's just hard to understand the concept of being covered in a conductive substance and _not_ get electrocuted. I may as well be covered in water and enter a room full of exposed electrical wires.



Being wet is dangerous because your body and water have a pretty similar resistance value (73% of your body is water). Electricity goes through the water and your body indiscriminately. Metal is a much better conductor than water, and by extension a human body. 

Think of it this way, electricity is lazy, if there is an easier path to the ground (e.g metal) it will ignore everything else.

Electrocution only happens when your body is the easiest path for the charge to go from point A to point B.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 9, 2011)

I know that electricity wants to take the easier road. What about this, then. Let's say that she made a suit, similar to the one in the video, and it was capable of conducting and rerouting the electricity on a path away from her body. Would a specific threshold of electricity overwhelm the suit, or would it all be absorbed/redirected from the suit to the ground regardless of potency? I'd hardly think that electricity in the film would compare to lightning of a much more potent level.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 9, 2011)

Heh, Toph going all Iron Man during the finale was awesome. 

But...Azula bending lightning makes a lotta noise. It's not as if Toph would just stand there, waiting for the lightning to strike her.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 9, 2011)

I myself am much more fond of Azula than I am of Toph-Azula is actually likely my favorite character after Zuko, a rare instance of me preferring the underdog or less-gifted sibling-but I cannot give a certain assessment of how a fight between the two of them would conclude. Toph could attempt to engulf Azula in stone, but Azula could likely propel herself upward with her firebending, where Toph could not reach her. That is one of many potential fights that never occurred within the series, so we, the audience, are left to speculate on how they would conclude.

However, I do completely agree with ReikaiDemon that Toph would actually be protected from electricity if she surrounded herself with metal, as the electricity would travel to the ground as quickly as possible, ignoring Toph herself. I learned about this effect originally from shows at the Theater of Electricity in the Museum of Science in Boston, and then more thoroughly in my experience working with computers, as keeping electrical components shielded from power surges is very important. However, if Azula used fire against Toph, a metal suit would not protect Toph, as heat spreads evenly through metal rather than traveling as quickly as possible to the ground the way that electricity does.

To continue my comment about Zuko above, I noticed something very interesting about him being my favorite character in this series. In most fictional series that I follow, I tend to be very fond of stern or aloof characters or very powerful and confident characters. For example, my favorite characters in _Naruto_ are Orochimaru and Itachi; in _Bleach,_ Byakuya Kuchiki and Ulquiorra; in _One Piece,_ Crocodile and Ace; from other works of fiction: Sesshomaru from _Inuyasha,_ Darth Vader from _Star Wars,_ Sephiroth from _Final Fantasy VII,_ Alucard from _Hellsing,_ Slade from the _Teen Titans_ animated series, or David Xanatos from _Gargoyles._ All of these characters are characters who are confident and powerful, and many of them are the more gifted siblings of main characters, and that would seem to suggest that Azula would be my favorite character in _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ but, while Azula is one of my favorite characters in the series, my actual favorite is Zuko, because of his numerous conflicts and the complex development that he undergoes during the series. Is that unusual, that I deviated from my usual preference in this situation?


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 9, 2011)

^ DemonDragonJ, there ain't nothing wrong with deviating from your usual favorite stock characters. I like characters like Toph, who are proud, self-sufficient, confident in and of themselves, and even a bit selfish (Lina Inverse of Slayers and Yuffie Kisaragi of FFVII fame). I never thought I'd ever like a character like UK of Hetalia, but there you have it. I love Toph, but I also like Ozai's Angels, Mai especially.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 9, 2011)

DDJ you are so wrong.. you have to stick to the usual and not expand your mind to other likes ... I am disappoint son.


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 9, 2011)

lol, when did this turn into an OBD thread?


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 9, 2011)

Don't let this get to you, Narcissus, but...

Nice sig.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 10, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> I'd hardly think that electricity in the film would compare to lightning of a much more potent level.


Which video are you talking about? The Imperial March one, or the Dr. Megavolt one?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 10, 2011)

> The Track Team
> Just finished the first Korra recording session: string quartet and xiao, dizi, suona, erhu,and zhonghu..




...............


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 10, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Which video are you talking about? The Imperial March one, or the Dr. Megavolt one?



I didn't see the second one, but upon watching it, both.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 10, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> ^ DemonDragonJ, there ain't nothing wrong with deviating from your usual favorite stock characters. I like characters like Toph, who are proud, self-sufficient, confident in and of themselves, and even a bit selfish (Lina Inverse of Slayers and Yuffie Kisaragi of FFVII fame). I never thought I'd ever like a character like UK of Hetalia, but there you have it. I love Toph, but I also like Ozai's Angels, Mai especially.



Yes, that is very good to hear.



Heloves said:


> DDJ you are so wrong.. you have to stick to the usual and not expand your mind to other likes ... I am disappoint son.



I hope that you are joking when you say that, because that advice is the utter opposite of my philosophy on new experiences in life. I always seek new ideas and new experiences, as always remaining with the same would be very monotonous.

On that subject, since many benders, or even general citizens of each faction, display a tendency to have personalities that are reminiscent of their elements, would it seem logical if certain benders, such as earthbenders (or even general citizens of the Earth Kingdom, would be unwilling to adopt new ideas, preferring to adhere to tradition, while the airbenders would be more willing to accept new ideas or practices? I imagine so.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that is very good to hear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think Heloves was joking, DemonDragonJ. 

Not all Earthbenders or citizens would be averse to change. I mean, look at Toph. She's the Greatest Earthbender in the World, and yet, she continues to keep learning. She learned to bend sand, which is not as easy as regular, hard earth.


----------



## God (Aug 10, 2011)

Does this DemonDragon guy have no sense of humor or what?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 10, 2011)

Their personalities are GENERALLY related to their element, but not exclusive.

It's how the bending arts work.


So, has anyone seen the new Thundercats?

Spaulding is on board the production.


----------



## Burke (Aug 10, 2011)

Cubey said:


> Does this DemonDragon guy have no sense of humor or what?



The only time that he doesnt act like that, is when hes being a pervert.


----------



## Shade (Aug 10, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> So, has anyone seen the new Thundercats?
> 
> Spaulding is on board the production.



Yeah, it's pretty good so far. The first 2 episodes introduced the plot very competently and the production values are very impressive. I'd recommend Avatar fans to check it out, it might fill your fake anime quota until Korra's out.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 10, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> > The Track Team
> > Just finished the first Korra recording session: string quartet and xiao, dizi, suona, erhu,and zhonghu..
> 
> 
> ...............


This is good news. :33

I hope we don't end up having to wait until late 2012 for the show, but sadly we probably will.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 10, 2011)

Finally, someone notices *actual fucking news*!

I doubt we'll get a Spring 2012 premiere, and I'd hate for them to premiere it in Summer, so Fall would be acceptable. Who knows, maybe they can rush in and get a Spring airdate. But if the Track Team are just working on episode 1 now, Fall seems likely to me.

SS7, you have expertise in this. How long do you think it would take to premiere the season if they are soundtracking episode 1 right now in July/August?


Guys, go like The Track Team on FB. #1: They are updating us on their progress. #2: Every little bit helps to show Viacom/Nick/etc. that we want a goddamn OST.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 10, 2011)

Looks like I have to finally make a Facebook.  I'll get my sisters and friends to do it too


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 10, 2011)

Cubey said:


> Does this DemonDragon guy have no sense of humor or what?



You are not the first person to ask that question, and I doubt that you shall be the final, either, but, yes, I do have a sense of humor; it simply is very esoteric compared to that of most other people. Plus, I prefer to be serious most of the time, as I find that it is difficult for other people to take one seriously when one is not serious themselves.



N??ps said:


> The only time that he doesnt act like that, is when hes being a pervert.



I do not appreciate those words, Noops, as there is nothing wrong with my pointing out suggestive or subtly sexual content in this series; I am merely being observant and finding meaning beyond what is immediately obvious in the series. Plus, I have seen other users here mention the suggestive content of this series, and they have not been criticized for doing so, so I believe that I also should not be criticized in such a manner for using the power of intellectual analysis, that so distinguishes us humans from all other organisms on this planet.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 10, 2011)

Well then, all hear this:

If you've gone out of your way to find suggestive imagery and content in the show, beyond a few amusing screenshots, then consider this my official criticism of you.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 10, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Well then, all hear this:
> 
> If you've gone out of your way to find suggestive imagery and content in the show, beyond a few amusing screenshots, then consider this my official criticism of you.



Are you ordering me, as a moderator, to stop mentioning that I perceive such content?


----------



## Burke (Aug 10, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you ordering me, as a moderator, to stop mentioning that I perceive such content?



Thats exactly what noone else was thinking.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 10, 2011)

.....so loving your sig Noops .........


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not to ignore this Dragon guy. I'm missing out of some possibly hilarious stuff...



Shade said:


> Yeah, it's pretty good so far. The first 2 episodes introduced the plot very competently and the production values are very impressive. I'd recommend Avatar fans to check it out, it might fill your fake anime quota until Korra's out.


Actually, an anime studio is animating it.


----------



## Koi (Aug 10, 2011)

So can we.. not.. talk about Ozai's phallic beard, or?


----------



## Heloves (Aug 10, 2011)

Koi said:


> So can we.. not.. talk about Ozai's phallic beard, or?



eh ..his devil beard wasn't that great ...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 10, 2011)

I, also, have been following the new _Thundercats_ series, and while it does have its own discussion thread, I shall say here that I am enjoying it immensely thus far, even after only two episodes. Its animation and art style is somewhat similar to those of _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ so either they have been animated by the same studio, or are simply using similar styles. I am glad to see that, in that series, the concepts of death and warfare are not ignored or downplayed (although they still are not as explicit as they could be if the series was intended for an older audience), which really helps to give greater depth and drama to the story, just as it did for the first _Avatar_ series, and hopefully shall do for the new series, as well.



Koi said:


> So can we.. not.. talk about Ozai's phallic beard, or?



I did not find it to be at all suggestive, and had never even thought of such a thing until you mentioned it, just now. However, the massive drill was almost certainly a phallic symbol, in my mind, and makes me wonder if he was "compensating for something," if you know what I mean?


----------



## Jena (Aug 10, 2011)

Oh DDJ, you both amuse and annoy me. 


Mostly *annoy* but naja....



Koi said:


> So can we.. not.. talk about Ozai's phallic beard, or?



Can we talk about how Ozai is really Mark Hamill?
Because the insane cross-over theories that this opens up are spectacular.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 10, 2011)

Koi said:


> So can we.. not.. talk about Ozai's phallic beard, or?



You've earned the right to do whatever you want. 


Case in point, your example.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 10, 2011)

Jena said:


> Oh DDJ, you both amuse and annoy me.
> 
> 
> Mostly *annoy* but naja....
> ...



The Joker was Ozai? ........puts a lot of things into perspective


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 10, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Finally, someone notices *actual fucking news*!
> 
> I doubt we'll get a Spring 2012 premiere, and I'd hate for them to premiere it in Summer, so Fall would be acceptable. Who knows, maybe they can rush in and get a Spring airdate. But if the Track Team are just working on episode 1 now, Fall seems likely to me.
> 
> SS7, you have expertise in this. How long do you think it would take to premiere the season if they are soundtracking episode 1 right now in July/August?



If they decided to air the show in Fall of 2012, the episodes should all be in the can. So that's a major plus. Being that the second season is now production then the waiting time should be no more than 4 months. There is absolutely no reason we should ever get those infamous dry periods between episodes and seasons if Korra begins airing towards the end of next year. The first season could even begin airing in the Spring and there probably wouldn't be a problem. Scoring an episode is done during the last stages of Post-production and there's only 12 to worry about.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 10, 2011)

Hey guys, there's something that's always bothered me about ATLA, even though I love it to bits...

The Avatar is the bridge between this world and the Spirit world. Aside from learning all bending arts, what about Shamanism? Dealing with spirits? Shouldn't that have been taken into account?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 10, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> If they decided to air the show in Fall of 2012, the episodes should all be in the can. So that's a major plus. Being that the second season is now production then the waiting time should be no more than 4 months. There is absolutely no reason we should ever get those infamous dry periods between episodes and seasons if Korra begins airing towards the end of next year. The first season could even begin airing in the Spring and there probably wouldn't be a problem. Scoring an episode is done during the last stages of Post-production and there's only 12 to worry about.



That's what I was thinking to. I honestly wouldn't mind if we went back to the way Book 2 aired and we had random weeks off during a run.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 10, 2011)

I heard and read at the Wikia that they are planning on having arcs and different situations for the new Avatar team to defeat/solve so there might be more than 1-2 seasons.

Does anyone know where the interview is where it was said? Or more about it...?


> That's what I was thinking to. I honestly wouldn't mind if we went back to the way Book 2 aired and we had random weeks off during a run.



I wouldn't mind that either. It would make it last longer, too.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 10, 2011)

There's been three episodes aired so far actually, the first one was two episodes together.

It's really stupid how people said it ruins Thundercats, or that the old was was better.

Frankly, I thought the original was garbage.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 10, 2011)

The...original Thundercats was garbage?  I thought it was great...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 10, 2011)

I saw perhaps four or five episodes of the original _Thundercats_ series, and while it is not my favorite western animated series, I do believe that it was very good for its time, as it was a departure from the frankly rather boring and repetitive series such as _The Jetsons, the Flintstones, Yogi Bear, Scooby-Doo,_ and other animated series of the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's. It was one of several series that started the trend of darker and more complex stories in western animation, although it was still ridiculously campy in certain aspects, and it still was not for another decade, in my mind, that western animation fully matured and produced such series as _Batman: the Animated Series, Gargoyles,_ or _Reboot,_ three of my favorite western animated series of all time. I am pleased to say that _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ and the new _Thundercats_ follow in the style of those series and not any earlier western animated series, as their darker and more complex stories are what make them so awesome, in my mind.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 10, 2011)

I never watched the original series back when Cartoon Network would show re-runs, so I've no frame of reference. I think I'll check out this new series though.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 10, 2011)

Its like watching a remake of the Avatar series without watching the original source.  

"Thunder...thunder...thunder!" :33


----------



## Mider T (Aug 10, 2011)

I always get Thundercats mixed up with He-Man, two old shows I never watched but for some reason were shown in modern times.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 10, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Its like watching a remake of the Avatar series without watching the original source.
> 
> "Thunder...thunder...thunder!" :33



No it's " Thunder ..thunder ..Thunder Cats ho!!!!"


----------



## Heloves (Aug 10, 2011)

Mider T said:


> I always get Thundercats mixed up with He-Man, two old shows I never watched but for some reason were shown in modern times.



funny thing is Lion-el  is using the same technique as He-man with their swords.. so I see why you would confuse them


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 10, 2011)

He-Man...another good show. :33

@Heloves:
I know, but its funnier sounding with just "thunder...thunder...thunder!" like in Robot Chicken


----------



## Stunna (Aug 10, 2011)

So, Suede from TGWTG named Avatar as the best "American Anime" ever. 

Someone's got a new fan.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 10, 2011)

Yeah I've seen a good amount of people on Twitter comparing the new Thundercats series to A:TLA. Unlike Avatar, it's an actual American/Japanese co-production. Studio 4c does a great job with the animation. I suppose that hiring one of the Korean animation studios that worked on Avatar would have done just as great a job considering all the comparisons.

Here's a little info for everyone, before every cartoon started outsourcing their animation to Korea--they were almost always done in Japan. Look up the original Thundercat's very anime-like intro on Youtube. Seriously, it's awesome. There was also something very distinctively Japanese when seeing old shows like Real Ghostbusters, Dennis the Menace, Silverhawks, Inspector Gadget and others.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 11, 2011)

Yes, exactly.

The intro was animated in Japan, as for the show, it's a mystery to me.

Because the animation was pretty awkward even for the time period, there were better technically proficient cartoons.

The writing was pretty goofy as well, but that was the standard fare of the time. In format, it's not so different from other episodic Aesop show.

Rankin/Bass was pretty notorious for being cheap, all the female voices and possibly a few of the children were done by one lady. And while not an exclusive thing to Thundercats, they have that typical hammy, stilted was of delivering dialog. It was never all that complex a series. A little confusing for a while when it came to the whole deal of three planets being involved, but nothing a kid couldn't work out.

Ironic, since the people of the new Thundercats production said they were simplifying the mythos, but the premiere had more depth and complexity than possibly the whole of the original series. 

It's really not as great as most people remember, nostalgia tints a lot of things in a nice rosy color. Though, even some of the people who were kids at the time that Thundercats was new, admit it was pretty goofy in a lot of places.

I remember Thundercats too, when they used to rerun it on Cartoon Network. I did like it, but looking at it now, it's pretty apparent that it's really really rough on a lot of organs.


----------



## Wan (Aug 11, 2011)

Stunna said:


> So, Suede from TGWTG named Avatar as the best "American Anime" ever.
> 
> Someone's got a new fan.



I watched it.  I didn't like his approach and definitions.  He puts Gargoyles, Batman Beyond, Samurai Jack, and Transformers on his list.  _Transformers._  What do these have in common stylistically with anime?...nothing, or very little.  He puts them on the list because of there story elements and structure, their maturity and general artistry.  He says that as if the Japanese invented and trademarked such things.  

That's just not true, and it's a very narrow way of looking at TV and films.  American films and television series are just as artistic and mature as Japanese products, it just happens that most Japanese serious dramas are animated rather than live-action.  That doesn't mean when an American animated production is serious, the credit then automatically goes to the Japanese for originating that serious approach!

Still, he does seem to have a straight head regarding what's good and what's not.  For the most part.


----------



## Koi (Aug 11, 2011)

In hindsight, Thundercats was so lame.  But I loved the hell out of it.  And you know what?  The worldbuilding and characters were actually pretty cool.  It was mostly just brought down by an awwwwwwwwwful script.



Ms. Jove said:


> You've earned the right to do whatever you want.
> 
> 
> Case in point, your example.





WELL, in that case, when I was active on capslock_atla, Ozai was known as the PENIX KING.  Because.. you know, all of the phallic imagery and overcompensation.  Mostly on his face.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 11, 2011)

Ozai wasn't overcompensating for anything, unless he had _really_ high standards. 



The comparisons between ThunderCats and Avatar probably have everything to do with Ethan Spaulding, I presume?


----------



## Koi (Aug 11, 2011)

Okay maybe he just wanted everything there for.. _comparison_. 


The new ThunderCats series has a style and color key that definitely feel similar to Avatar.  The animation is really, REALLY well-done, like Avatar's, and I personally felt that the battle at the end of the first two episodes had a very Siege of the North kind of feel to it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 11, 2011)

Ah, Spaulding was a storyboard artist on SotN, so that makes sense. He directed some of my favorite episodes; maybe I should check ThunderCats out.


----------



## Glued (Aug 11, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> *He-Man...another good show. :33
> *
> @Heloves:
> I know, but its funnier sounding with just "thunder...thunder...thunder!" like in Robot Chicken



no, it wasn't.

one episode he-man throws a pillar into the sun

the next, he fails to lift a boulder.

skeletor is a 1 dimensional villain and none of his henchmen were likable.

King Hiss was the only villain I actually respected, due to his respect for his ancient rival King Greyskull, and the fact that he ate his victims, hardcore.
[YOUTUBE]Aqce-UJG8vU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Wan (Aug 11, 2011)

I just checked out the Comic-Con trailer for Thundercats, and I can see the similarities to Avatar.  Which is nothing but a GOOD thing, American action cartoons definitely need the maturity and intelligence that Avatar brought to the table.  Which leads me to ask:  are the plot and writing of the show any good?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 11, 2011)

I never said it was perfect, Ben.


----------



## Glued (Aug 11, 2011)

Oman said:


> I just checked out the Comic-Con trailer for Thundercats, and I can see the similarities to Avatar.  Which is nothing but a GOOD thing, *American action cartoons definitely need the maturity and intelligence that Avatar brought to the table*.  Which leads me to ask:  are the plot and writing of the show any good?



gargoyles, conan, exosquad, roughnecks, and captain simian did this as well.


----------



## Wan (Aug 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> gargoyles, conan, exosquad, roughnecks, and captain simian did this as well.



I think you misunderstand me. Of course those shows had those elements, but they're older shows.  I'm talking about the animation industry at present, not over its whole existence.


----------



## Koi (Aug 11, 2011)

As far as the plot and writing go, the show is only 2/3 episodes in, so I think it's a little early to tell.  The writing is definitely better than the original, though.  Lion-o doesn't describe everything he does, which is good.

'Quicksand.. pulling me in.. must.. reach.. vines!'


----------



## Shade (Aug 11, 2011)

Jove and Oman, you guys should really give it a chance; if it pans out as well as its started, we may have another winner on our hands. Keep that in mind though, the first two episodes are meant to be watched together.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 11, 2011)

Oman said:


> I just checked out the Comic-Con trailer for Thundercats, and I can see the similarities to Avatar.  Which is nothing but a GOOD thing, American action cartoons definitely need the maturity and intelligence that Avatar brought to the table.  Which leads me to ask:  are the plot and writing of the show any good?


Pretty good so far, there's a few moral shades painted around, the cats (their kingdom at least) are actually entitled imperialist snobs that muscle out the other species out of their resources and land. Oh and there should be a very familiar voice of ours in it...

There's a perceivable speciesm both in and out of the city. Dogs are under protection racquets from cats, lizards are ALMOST lynched on screen. 

There's a role reversal in that sorcery is widely believed in, and technology is mystical.

There's more, but I think it would spoil the stuff so far.

Think Ba Sing Se sort of, in the city of Thundera


----------



## Waveblade (Aug 11, 2011)

Also there is class divide between thundarians (cats) with tails and those who don't, with the ones with tails being considered trash.


----------



## Koi (Aug 11, 2011)

Is that what it is??  I was wondering why Kit and Kat have tails in the premiere and it started to bother me because nobody else does.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm really impressed the more deeply I look at the staff.

Dee Bradley Baker, Clancy Brown, Andrea Romano...


----------



## Glued (Aug 11, 2011)

"I spit my last breath at thee."-Fishman Captain.
"I spit my last breath at thee."-Captain Ahab.

Nice.

Though I wonder if Herman Melville were still alive would he have sued Cartoon Network.


----------



## Burke (Aug 11, 2011)

I twittered dante basco a few times, hes answered back to me like three times, but still no answer when i ask the name of his character


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> "I spit my last breath at thee."-Fishman Captain.
> "I spit my last breath at thee."-Captain Ahab.
> 
> Nice.
> ...


What was his name, Koinelius Tunarr? xD


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 11, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What was his name, Koinelius Tunarr? xD



I like clever or meaningful names, as I certainly give characters in my stories such names, but I found that name to be slightly ridiculous.

On that subject, I liked Jet's name, as it sounded "cool" and "edgy," fitting well with his personality, but why did a character in an Asian-themed world have a clearly non-Asian name? Perhaps it was not his birth name, as Smellerbee, Longshot, and the Duke were clearly not those character's actual names, but how would such a word even exist in the vocabulary of an Asian-themed world? Perhaps Jet simply created it completely randomly, as did Aang with his "Bonzu Pippinpaddleopsicopolis" alias?

Also, I definitely believe that the character of Mako is named in honor of Mako Iwamatsu, the voice actor who played Iroh, which I believe is a very respectful gesture, indeed. Does anyone else have that belief, as well?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 11, 2011)

Man, I am really digging this new ThunderCats cartoon. Real good stuff. Especially Lion-O's actions in the recent episode.

/off-topic


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Perhaps it was not his birth name, as Smellerbee, Longshot, and the Duke were clearly not those character's actual names,


It's not the Duke; it's The Duke.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 11, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> It's not the Duke; it's The Duke.



That was a simple mistype by me; why do so many people make such a great deal about The Duke's name?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That was a simple mistype by me; why do so many people make such a great deal about The Duke's name?


 Because the character does. Did you miss that scene?


----------



## Jena (Aug 11, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, I definitely believe that the character of Mako is named in honor of Mako Iwamatsu, the voice actor who played Iroh, which I believe is a very respectful gesture, indeed. Does anyone else have that belief, as well?



OH MY GOD I DID NOT KNOW HOW HE DIED UNTIL I LOOKED IT UP HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS?



RIP Mako, you were so awesome. You _were_ my childhood.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2011)

As for Mako's name, yes, that is quite clearly a nod to the late voice actor. Mike and Bryan have actually mentioned it, IIRC.


Jena said:


> OH MY GOD I DID NOT KNOW HOW HE DIED UNTIL I LOOKED IT UP HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS?
> 
> 
> 
> RIP Mako, you were so awesome. You _were_ my childhood.


Does this mean you missed Iroh's awesome story in Ba Sing Se?!


----------



## Stunna (Aug 11, 2011)

Wait, how'd you miss the "In Memory of Mako" in _Tales of Ba Sing Se?_


----------



## Jena (Aug 11, 2011)

I DON'T KNOW


I've watched that episode like 10 times! I must've been completely braindead.

Or, more likely, I knew that he was dead but forgot.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 11, 2011)

EDIT: nevermind.



DemonDragonJ said:


> That was a simple mistype by me; why do so many people make such a great deal about The Duke's name?



Yea like DN said, because The Duke makes a big deal out of it


----------



## Wan (Aug 11, 2011)

Shade said:


> Jove and Oman, you guys should really give it a chance; if it pans out as well as its started, we may have another winner on our hands. Keep that in mind though, the first two episodes are meant to be watched together.



I just watched the premiere, and the show does indeed have some promise.  I think I'll watch the next episode tomorrow (with my brother), and take further discussion to the Thundercats thread.

This is an _Avatar_ thread, after all.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 12, 2011)

MLP: Friendship is Magic >>>>>> Thundercats

Come at me. 

Just no negging


----------



## Stunna (Aug 12, 2011)

Negged.**


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 12, 2011)

Kirito said:


> MLP: Friendship is Magic >>>>>> Thundercats
> 
> Come at me.
> 
> Just no negging


Dunno if you're joking or not...

I haven't seen MLP but it's definitely aimed at young kids/pre-teens. While Thundercats seems to be aimed at an older audience like late-teens/early adults, especially so that it is 'watchable' by nostalgic adults too.

I guess if you don't like Thundercats, and like MLP it just shows you're tastes haven't matured yet and you're still into the 'younger' stuff. You can even tell by the character designs and the animation style alot of time what age group the series is aimed at.

Avatar initially seemed like it was at at a younger audience too, but they quickly began developing themes aimed at a slightly older audience which I think is why it became so popular. Sincde it's audience became broader and became engaging even for maturer viewers. Specifically storylines involving Zuko and his family for example.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 12, 2011)

ThunderCats is PG. Late-teens/early adults is most definitely not it's target demographic.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

Avatar introduced some more mature themes but never really  went that far, or they quickly cut the tone with a quick joke, or light episode straight after. 

I mean, FN's hardest prison and their torture methods...yeah okay, blood rush to the head sure is nasty 

Also, I want to see a remake of *Mighty Max*/off topic


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 12, 2011)

Stunna said:


> ThunderCats is PG. Late-teens/early adults is most definitely not it's target demographic.


All PG means is that there is no blood, significant violence and bad language or adult themes. I said that there are 'more mature' themes. More mature themes does not mean the same as adult themes.

adult = 20+
Late teens/early adult = 15-19
kids/pre-teen = 12-14

The show lacked 'adult' themes so of course it's not for adults. It is a cartoon which is enough for 12-14 y/o's to watch it. Those would be target audience to draw in the viewers.

Avatar definitely had themes worthy of 15-19 y/o's in the show. Especially Book 3. If you can't see that then that's surprising really.



Waking Dreamer said:


> Avatar introduced some more mature themes but never really  went that far, or they quickly cut the tone with a quick joke, or light episode straight after.


Yes...ok.



> I mean, FN's hardest prison and their torture methods...yeah okay, blood rush to the head sure is nasty


Why would they show torture methods on Avatar?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 12, 2011)

Irrelevant. If it was targeted at older teenagers and adults it wouldn't be on Cartoon Network. We're just the periphery demographic; the show wasn't made for_ us_.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> Yes...ok.



Yeah...exactly.



> Why would they show torture methods on Avatar?



Why would they bring it up in the first place or turn it into something ridiculous?

The scariest prison in the FN really....? Total immersion killer!

Boiling Rock turned into a playground with "Capture the Warden" and race to the top of the cable car to win a prize!


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 12, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Irrelevant. If it was targeted at older teenagers and adults it wouldn't be on Cartoon Network. We're just the periphery demographic; the show wasn't made for_ us_.


How is it irrelevant? The topic I started, based on someone's comment, was the Avatar is a show with more mature themes, like Thundercats, than something like My Little Pony. You're going on about 'target audiences' which is not exactly what I was originally talking about. Your replies so far are kindof pointless.

@Walking Dreamer: I dunno what you're going on about to be honest. What point are you trying to make? Not trying to be rude.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> @Walking Dreamer: I dunno what you're going on about to be honest. What point are you trying to make? Not trying to be rude.



Avatar isnt _that_ mature...or do you disagree...?

its *Waking* Dreamer


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 12, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Avatar isnt _that_ mature...
> 
> So do you disagree...?


What type of question is that?

How mature is it then? How mature do you think I think it is? You're apparently disagreeing with what I'm saying based on your _assumptions_ of what I believe, which are obviously not accurate.

The fact that you you said "_that _mature" even means that you think it does have some level of maturity yourself. Otherwise you would have said it's not mature at all.

How can I answer you're question when you don't have a clear explanation of what you think is mature in the show, or what I think is mature.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

Well I never claimed Avatar didnt have mature themes...but it doesnt really explore it beyond the obvious - thats how mature it is.

Thats what Im saying.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 12, 2011)

It explored the genocide and cultural extinction quite a lot  along with the negative affect war has on communities.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 12, 2011)

Of the top of my head these are some 'mature' themes explored in some episodes:

Zuko losing his mother
Zuko's relationship with his father
Zuko inner struggles and 'finding himself' 
Azula's relationship with her mother
Iroh losing is son and his relationship with Zuko
Iroh's relationship with Zuko deteriorating and reconciling
Katara losing her mother
Katara confronting her mother's killer
Katara's relationship with her father
Aang dealing with having to kill the Fire Lord
EDIT: Jet's entire character and storyline! 

These explored themes are things that would be overlooked by the younger and generally less mature audiences who only appreciate the bending, fighting, beating the bad guys, main simple plot. 

and this:


Gunners said:


> It explored the genocide and cultural extinction quite a lot  along with the negative affect war has on communities.



I say _explored _because I mean the episodes that specifically touched on these issues are the more mature episodes. Most of these had entire episodes devoted to them. I don't simply mean that having these issues made it more mature. You can easily tell by the tone of some episodes when they are exploring a mature subject.

These are the more mature themes that did not involve the main storyline of "the main goods guys confronting the bad guys to save the world". Without anything like these, it would just be a simple "kids show".

So I hope this shows what I mean by saying that it is mature. Thundercats is the same, but will list things in it's own thread.


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 12, 2011)

_Avatar_ is one of the most mature animated shows I've ever come across. The way it handles characterisation is particularly notable in this respect -- even when it is still finding its feet in early season one episodes, it's already striking due to the use of fleshing out and humanising the antagonist until he is potentially more interesting and well-realised than the supposed 'hero'. (Even better, he eventually evolves into a protagonist in his own right.) 

'Maturity' isn't about bloodshed, violence, torture, etc. It's true that the show sometimes refuses to address darker elements (I particularly felt this in regard to the finale), but it's also true that it sometimes _does_ dip into more troubling areas. A good early example is _Jet_, which gives the audience a child terrorist who is presented as neither wholly positive or negative. He is justifiably furious at the horrors the Fire Nation have unleashed on the world, and thus there is an element of sympathy, but his methods are troubling and he readily manipulates people. The whole situation provokes thought and ambiguity, which in itself is a great example of how mature the series can be.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah, but thats pretty much average themes for say a shonen-action series. 

And as I originally posted:



> Avatar introduced some more mature themes but never really went that far, or they quickly cut the tone with a quick joke, or* light episode straight after*.



PuppetMaster--->Nightmares and Daydreams
Southern Raiders----> Ember Island Players

Or 

e.g. Sokka knows Suki is captured and at the mercy of Azula (DOBS)
Next episode: Sokka dosent show/mention anything about it.


----------



## Glued (Aug 12, 2011)

Ember Island Players was awesome, its good to watch the creators of the show making fun of all the terrible fanfiction on the internet.


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 12, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah, but thats pretty much average themes for say a shonen-action series.
> 
> And as I originally posted:
> 
> ...



Maturity isn't inherent in a theme. It is illuminated through the _execution_ of the theme. 

There is also nothing wrong with alternating between drama and comedy -- it's a very old and potentially very effective style of storytelling. If anything, you've just pointed out one of the strengths of the series -- the way it is able to balance so effortlessly between seriousness and humour.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 12, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah, but thats pretty much average themes for say a shonen-action series.


Japan is a COMPLETELY different culture to ours so CANNOT be likened to what I was saying. Shonen anime have no problem using adult themes in their kids shows, while i was saying Avatar adopts mature themes, but NOT adult themes. So you mentioning shonen anime doesn't really mean much.

example: shonen kids shows have sexual references, blood, extreme violence etc which american/uk kids shows would bever have.

Notice how none of the 'mature themes I mentioned even involved violence etc.



> e.g. Sokka knows Suki is captured and at the mercy of Azula (DOBS)
> Next episode: Sokka dosent show/mention anything about it.


I still don't see your point.

You're saying Avatar can do a mature themed episode but then they do something light hearted after. Yes we know that, but what is your point? It doesn't take away anything from the mature episode if that's what you mean. If they did too many mature episodes in a row then it couldn't be put on a 'kids' channel and it would seem too mature or emo. They almost had to alternate it like that to keep it engaging. The mature themes were just side plots to the main storyline afterall.

Oh yeah and Jet's entire character and story is another example of mature themes in the show.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 12, 2011)

On a completely different note, anyone here going to the Chicago Comicon.  I'll be there and checking this thread on my phone just in case anyone wants to meet up.


----------



## The Imp (Aug 12, 2011)

Okay I started watching the show. I saw a few odd episodes when it was originally airing but this is the first time I'm watching the whole thing in it's proper order. I just got to the 27th episode, "Zuko Alone", where Zuko is outlawed and is in an Earth Nation village by himself and we're getting a ton of flashbacks about his mother and how Ozai became Fire Lord. I'm assuming his mother killed the Fire Lord because he wanted to kill Zuko to show Ozai what Iroh was going through. Then she ran away or was imprisoned/executed/exiled. Can somebody confirm this for me?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> There is also nothing wrong with alternating between drama and comedy -- it's a very old and potentially very effective style of storytelling. If anything, you've just pointed out one of the strengths of the series -- *the way it is able to balance so effortlessly between seriousness and humour.*



Thats where I disagree. Balance doesnt necesasarily mean having an equal amount dramatic and humerous episodes. 

Season 3 weakness is that it was too disjointed it was too episodic. The higher ups presented the season too clinically. 

1. Very dramatic episode- CHECK
2. We need to balance it out now, so the next epsisode:
Very light hearted - CHECK

Too me thats not balance but a check list. 



tari101190 said:


> Japan is a COMPLETELY different culture to ours so CANNOT be likened to what I was saying. Shonen anime have no problem using adult themes in their kids shows, while i was saying Avatar adopts mature themes, but NOT adult themes. So you mentioning shonen anime doesn't really mean much.
> 
> example: shonen kids shows have sexual references, blood, extreme violence etc which american/uk kids shows would bever have.
> 
> ...



My point is, when it comes to "animated shows" and mature themes Avatar hasnt treaded ground that havent been walked before. Heck Simpsons has mature themes (different to Avatar ofc) but there are still mature concepts. I cant say Avatar is one of the MOST mature animated shows out there.

So my point was Avatar's mature themes have already been presented in animation before, and regardless of cultural/societial regulations the audience that watches avatar can easily access or  get exposed perhaps even more easily to these other animations with the same themes. 

Remember I never responded to you  in the first place, just posted something with that point, which you didnt seem to get hence these follow up posts.



> You're saying Avatar can do a mature themed episode but then they do something light hearted after. Yes we know that, but what is your point?
> 
> It doesn't take away anything from the mature episode if that's what you mean.



My point as I mentioned:

_"Season 3 weakness is that it was too disjointed it too episodic. The higher ups presented the season too clinically. 

1. Very dramatic episode - CHECK
2. We need to balance it out now, so the next epsisode:
Very light hearted - CHECK

Too me thats not balance but a more of a check list. "_

No it doesnt take away the maturity of the previous ep (I praise Puppetmaster 100%) but the following ep reminds me it is restricted to US kid show rregulations...as in more introspective coping is not explored fully - or left completely out (Katara was in tears just the ep before).



> If they did too many *mature episodes in a row* then it couldn't be put on a 'kids' channel and it would seem *too mature *or emo. They almost had to alternate it like that to keep it engaging. The mature themes were just side plots to the main storyline afterall.



As above. 

Its not a journey spanning over several episodes - its things to do in this episode - done. Next episode deal with something else or not have to deal with anything at all e.g. EIP/N&D

It breaks the immersion of the story.

This is the final arc of a large story - the final chapter of not just 60+ eps but 100 years of WAR...why cant there be a more prolonged, serious tone? Its either they end the WAR or its the end of the RESISTANCE.

ofc, its my opinion - I made some detailed posts about it when it was airing on another forum, I may look that up and post it here if I feel like it later. 

Im saying the final season was littered with immersion breaking moments.

YES because they had to since its on a kids channel - hence my point Im reminded that it is a kids show - not because Im bloodthirsty and I want violence - but the characters emotionally are _relatively _instantly better the next episode.

I get more freaked out at my finals or my project presentations _in real life _than what the Gaang showed before their finale arc..

Ofc, im going to ask myself did they tone it down because its a Nick show - and as a result did they not explore the mature emotional aspects that may have made it more intriguing/relatable (to me).

The answer is yes, and I was just pointing that out.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 12, 2011)

@ The Imp

*Spoiler*: __ 



It's heavily implied that she killed Azulon and forged his will to make Ozai the Fire Lord in order to protect Zuko from being killed by Ozai. She was then banished from the Fire Nation.


----------



## Glued (Aug 12, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> Japan is a COMPLETELY different culture to ours so CANNOT be likened to what I was saying. Shonen anime have no problem using adult themes in their kids shows, while i was saying Avatar adopts mature themes, but NOT adult themes. So you mentioning shonen anime doesn't really mean much.
> 
> example: shonen kids shows have sexual references, blood, extreme violence etc which american/uk kids shows would bever have.
> 
> ...



Although I myself love blood and explosions in fiction, I do agree that violence has nothing to do with maturity.

Virgil in Mighty Max explained it best

[Youtube]_-i23Z1uWog[/Youtube]

Virgil, "Real violence has real consequences."

One of the things that I don't like in many violent comics and mangas is that there are no consequences for violent acts. Vegeta slaughters an entire stadium, no problem wish them back with the dragonballs. Cassandra Cain tortures supergirl with red kryptonite katanas, just retcon it. Kouga from Inuyasha slaughtered an entire village, its forgotten about and Kouga becomes one of the good guys. The problem with pushing the envelope, is that once the envelope is open, you can't close it.


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 12, 2011)

> Thats where I disagree. Balance doesnt necesasarily mean having an equal amount dramatic and humerous episodes.



I never said that, so dunno where you got that from.

As for the rest, it seems as if you're now criticising season three in isolation. Just to clarify, are you unhappy with the series as a whole or just season three? I'm losing track of exactly what you're arguing for, to be honest. 



> Avatar hasnt treaded ground that havent been walked before.



Why is this a problem? As I implied before, a theme isn't inherently effective. People have been addressing the same themes for years and years. What separates them is the precise execution, the way they go about the storytelling. Personally, I don't like _Avatar_ for being some sort of incredibly original masterpiece -- I like _Avatar_ because it's a series that provides sophisticated storytelling for both children and adults, mainly through giving me interesting characters that I care about and handling the dynamic between them well. 

Also, as we are now bringing in Anime, I would personally say that if _Avatar_ were a Shonen series then it would still be the best one I've come across in that demographic. (By that I mean it's my personal favourite.)


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 12, 2011)

What heresy is this? My Little Pony is _fantastic_.


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)

Others have already said some good stuff about Avatar's maturity, and I just want to throw in my 2 cents.  This is mainly addressed to Waking Dreamer, but I'm not going to go through what he said quote-by-quote.

First of all, we need to define what we mean by mature.  Does it include:

Emotional maturity?
Intelligent maturity?
Violent maturity?
Philosophical maturity?
etc.

As Dream Brother said, just because a show tries to address a theme doesn't mean it does so in a mature fashion.  A show can be wildly violent without being violently mature, or characters can angst about their circumstances without nearly being emotionally mature.  Philosophical maturity comes not from what happens in a show, but in the motivations and reasons for the characters' actions.  Intelligent maturity, I think, is how all those elements are woven together by the writing and execution.  A "average shonen anime" lays on the violence just for violence and doesn't treat it maturely, has emo characters piss and moan without a shred of emotional maturity, and has them vaguely going about their business out of just a desire for adventure, necessity, or blind revenge, not bothering to dive past the surface.  Of course, there are _good_ anime that do most or all of these things right, but those are the _above_ average shows.

Avatar, I think, succeeds to some extent at all of those.  Yes, there are "breather episodes" that provide breaks between serious episodes, but that's part of its nature as an American TV show.  We don't need 10 episodes straight of a character angsting to know he got upset over something.  Part of being mature, as a person, is the ability to not let your emotions interfere with your duties and responsibilities.  Characters have their fears, hopes, hatreds, and worries, but in Avatar they _act_ on them rather than mope around for 5 episodes until some event forces them off their asses.

And I don't think the breather episodes mess with the themes of the show and characters.  Take Aang, for example.  He ran away from home, only for his whole nation, everyone he knew, to be wiped out.  The theme of loss and survivor's guilt started at least at episode 103, "The Southern Air Temple", got some major focus as he dealt with it in 112 "The Storm", and was brought up as a driving motivation for his character in 119 "The Siege of the North".  He also picked up a fear of firebending and how dangerous it was not to him, but those around him, in 116 "The Deserter".  This was addressed in 219 "The Guru", used as a way to accept Zuko in 312 "The Western Air Temple", and fully resolved in 313 "The Firebending Masters".  I could go on but I think you get the point.

With regards to the Boiling Rock I don't think the conditions of the prison were ever a big deal.   What was a big deal is the fact that no one had ever escaped, and the Warden would die before letting that record fall.  And indeed, at the end as the protagonists attempted to escape he told his men to cut the line of the gondola, even though he was on the gondola as a hostage.

Lastly, plot continuity does not constitute maturity either.  Yeah you can criticize Avatar for its third season not being as tight as its second (and I'll defend it) but that's a separate topic.


----------



## Burke (Aug 12, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> What heresy is this? My Little Pony is _fantastic_.



i expected as much from you reikai


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 12, 2011)

Listen guys, Avatar just skewed older than it's intended demographic of Boys 7-11. How many of us posting here fit that target audience to a T? OK there's your answer to how mature the show was. What are we trying to defend? 
As long as no one says that Avatar is *Extremely kiddy and immature* like some dimwit did a month or so ago, everything's good.


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)

I remember that guy.  It's too bad he didn't actually try defending his claims, I was itching for a troll smackdown.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 12, 2011)

I got a neg for saying I like My Little Pony xD


----------



## Darth (Aug 12, 2011)

"Soldier Boy" was one of the most mature scenes I have ever seen in a show. Shit still makes me tear up today. Iroh visiting his son's grave in the middle of Ba Sing Se? After all the positive and happy things that he did?

Goddamnit Mako, why'd you have to die.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 12, 2011)

Why are you guys talkin' about My little Pony, Thundercats and whatnot in an Avatar thread?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah guys, you've really been off-topic the last several hundred pages.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 12, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I got a neg for saying I like My Little Pony xD



I'm old enough to remember the first go at the My little Pony franchise. I have more memories with the Tv ads for the toyline more so than the cartoon so it's a little hard for me to dive right into this new incarnation. I guess Lauren Faust really switched things up but goshdamn, it's My Little Pony.


----------



## Burke (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok, i wont give you so much beef reikai seeing as faust did PPG, KND, and Fosters home.


----------



## Darth (Aug 12, 2011)

Oh god, Faust also did The Iron Giant, Quest for Camelot, and Cats don't Dance. 



Wow, how did she devolve into My Little Pony?


----------



## Burke (Aug 12, 2011)

Hey now, the animation is classic faust. Take my word as an ~artist~

Its just... its my little pony


----------



## Glued (Aug 12, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> As long as no one says that Avatar is *Extremely kiddy and immature* like some dimwit did a month or so ago, everything's good.



Who did that?


----------



## Glued (Aug 12, 2011)

Darth said:


> Oh god, Faust also did The Iron Giant, Quest for Camelot, and Cats don't Dance.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, how did she devolve into My Little Pony?



The new My Little Pony: Friendship is magic uses humor from the classic looney tunes, Pinkie Pie even did a Pepe Le Pew skit with Rainbow dash.

Its like someone threw Power Puff Girlz, and Looney Tunes into a pot then poured the melted liquid into a pony mold.


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Who did that?



Some no-name poster named Akimichi Juro.  He also trolled the Konoha Theatre at the same time as DracoStorm (the instigator of "'Superhero shows don't have plots' and other entertaining fictions")


----------



## Darth (Aug 12, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> The new My Little Pony: Friendship is magic uses humor from the classic looney tunes, Pinkie Pie even did a Pepe Le Pew skit with Rainbow dash.
> 
> Its like someone threw Power Puff Girlz, and Looney Tunes into a pot then poured the melted liquid into a pony mold.



Honestly sounds retarded.

...

I think I'm just biased to a point where I don't even give a damn anymore. I've been trolled so hard IRL by friends who are honest to god mlp fans and it drives me insane.

Seriously, we shouldn't even be discussing this topic in a thread dedicated to a series as epic as Avatar...


----------



## Burke (Aug 12, 2011)

I want korra talk


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 12, 2011)

Oman said:


> Some no-name poster named Akimichi Juro.  He also trolled the Konoha Theatre at the same time as *DracoStorm* (the instigator of "'Superhero shows don't have plots' and other entertaining fictions")



Yeah, DracoStorm was awful. You still in case you're lurking on this thread. Most of anything you ever wrote was B.S.
Did you enjoy anything from this show? You sat through 61 episodes, there must have been something appealing about it.


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)

I just realized the irony of calling Juro a no-name poster and immediately naming him.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 12, 2011)

N??ps said:


> I want korra talk



Me too N??ps -- no more pony talk.


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)




----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I never said that, so dunno where you got that from.



Well this is what you said.



> Avatar is one of the most mature animated shows I've ever come across.



I disagree with this then. Regardless of what they can or cant put in the show based on its network - its far from it. And im not talking about violence but introspection of the human condition. Yes it had this, its praised to be one of its greatest points - but to be one of the most mature animated shows to convey such thought provoking ideas...? No, not at all.



> As for the rest, it seems as if you're now criticising season three in isolation. Just to clarify, are you unhappy with the series as a whole or just season three? I'm losing track of exactly what you're arguing for, to be honest.



I wasnt arguing anything, you chose to interrogate my posts so here it is. 

I adore Avatar season 1 and 2, they were great and showed great potential. Season 3 was crunch time for the entire story the time were everything that meant something was to be put on the line...here it dropped the ball, and yeah it was the weakest of the seasons...when it should have been the strongest.



> Why is this a problem? As I implied before, a theme isn't inherently effective. People have been addressing the same themes for years and years. What separates them is the precise execution, the way they go about the storytelling.



Yeah, in season 3 it fell apart and became a bit too disjointed. It had all these themes going for it, and the storytelling and execution didnt quite live up to it (imo)

This is what I wrote about 3 years ago - time stamp:  *Nov 16, 2008 12:03 pm 
*_



One main issue for me is the build up for the finale.

To be honest the good guys never felt pressed about the saving the world - well not as much as they should be. Often a series such as this would have everyone sliding down a steep slope of events, ready to leap against insurmountable odds with only the slightest chance of winning. It should be all or nothing!

The last dozen eps should have the viewer, no way! no way! what are they going to do next?! how on earth are they going to win!? 

It really just felt like they were sitting around not doing much till, "oh, look at the time the comets here, okay everyone, we better get up."  (lol. actually there were just sitting around - oh well)

Click to expand...


^^^^^ Thats where it wasnt as mature as it could be. ^^^^^^

I dont care to talk about the faults of season 3 because honestly Im over it  

But I got the impression people considered I was talking from my ass or some shit - like my posts were all, "Cool story bro!" posts - as if I havent considered what everyone has already stated.  So thats why I spent even this much time in response 




			Personally, I don't like Avatar for being some sort of incredibly original masterpiece -- I like Avatar because it's a series that provides sophisticated storytelling for both children and adults, mainly through giving me interesting characters that I care about and handling the dynamic between them well.
		
Click to expand...


It never had original themes, its the classic boy where destiny thrusts upon them to change and save the world. Its execution was done well in season 1 and season 2, but season 3 was a let down because you can see how Nick network would have a show: 




			Also, as we are now bringing in Anime, I would personally say that if Avatar were a Shonen series then it would still be the best one I've come across in that demographic. (By that I mean it's my personal favourite.)
		
Click to expand...


Again you said this:




			Avatar is *one of the most mature animated shows* I've ever come across.
		
Click to expand...


If we are to compare it to shounen anime then it be quite decent but nothing special - unless if you count its higher production values to put it above the others.

If you compare it to any animated show then yeah its has decent, generic mature themes  but nothing that deep or thought provoking at all.

*Disclaimer:* All my opinion of course, obviously there could be disagreements to some of the points - doesnt really matter to me though...._


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok then.  Provide a no more than average show that exceeds Avatar when it comes to mature themes.


----------



## Koi (Aug 12, 2011)

Haha.. hawk-horse.  For some reason I could see Sokka and Rainbow Dash getting along REALLY well.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

Oman said:


> Ok then.  Provide a *no more than average show* that exceeds Avatar when it comes to mature themes.



What do you mean by this?


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah, but thats pretty much average themes for say a shonen-action series.



You've made a claim.  Now back it up with examples.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 12, 2011)

Oman said:


> Ok then.  Provide a no more than average show that exceeds Avatar when it comes to mature themes.



Hold on, Ben Grimm will answer you with obscure animated series that aired in the mid 90's-early 00's.


----------



## Burke (Aug 12, 2011)

How about that fantastic 4 series where a robot replaced the human torch


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 12, 2011)

Alright then, Korra fanart page-stretch time:


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Hold on, Ben Grimm will answer you with obscure animated series that aired in the mid 90's-early 00's.





Oman said:


> Ok then.  Provide a *no more than average show* that exceeds Avatar when it comes to mature themes.



I rest my case.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 12, 2011)

Zutarians, it was over in 2008.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 12, 2011)

Oman said:


> You've made a claim.  Now back it up with examples.



Off the top of my head shounen series with the standard political/war themes:

1. Moribito - Guardian of the Spirit 
2. Eureka Seven
3. Fullmetal Alchemist
4. Mobile Suit Gundam
5. Xam'd: Lost Memories

As for a western series that I think is even more mature than Avatar (but does not have war themes):

The Animals of Farthing Wood - Even a European children’s show would be above Avatar as it contains one of the most “mature, everyday themes” Ive seen from a western series. What holds it together IS the STORY and CHARACTERS, there no mystical kung-fu or slapstick humor to keep you there...

And that showed on TV after school while I was eating my afternoon meal and practicing my timetables


----------



## Wan (Aug 12, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Off the top of my head shounen series with the standard political/war themes:
> 
> 1. Moribito - Guardian of the Spirit
> 2. Eureka Seven
> ...



Ok I admit I'm only familiar with one of those -- FMA -- but I'm pretty sure that FMA doesn't qualify as an "average shounen anime".  But anyways, Avatar's themes went beyond politics and war.



> The Animals of Farthing Wood - Even a European children?s show would be above Avatar as it contains one of the most ?mature, everyday themes? Ive seen from a western series. What holds it together IS the STORY and CHARACTERS, there no mystical kung-fu or slapstick humor to keep you there...
> 
> And that showed on TV after school while I was eating my afternoon meal and practicing my timetables



So you're holding up one of the most mature kid's shows you've ever seen as an example?  It doesn't help your point.


----------



## Glued (Aug 13, 2011)

Exosquad, Highlander TAS, Roughnecks all dealt with war.

War Planets and Beast wars were made in canada.

a shame exosquad got cancelled right after they finally beat phaeton and roughnecks got cancelled with only 3 episodes left to go. After 5 campaigns, all they needed was 3 mpre episodes.


----------



## Wan (Aug 13, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> a shame exosquad got cancelled right after they finally beat phaeton and roughnecks got cancelled with only 3 episodes left to go. After 5 campaigns, all they needed was 3 mpre episodes.



Therein actually lies part of what makes Avatar unique.  It was an experiment not just in mature, intelligent Western storytelling in animation, but _successful_ storytelling of that nature.  In a perfect world, shows like Exosquad and Roughnecks and Firefly would see their stories through to the end.  But they didn't, and like it or not being complete is part of what raises Avatar above them.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 13, 2011)

Highlander TAS was utter bull-crap though. lmao


----------



## Glued (Aug 13, 2011)

Oman said:


> Therein actually lies part of what makes Avatar unique.  It was an experiment not just in mature, intelligent Western storytelling in animation, but _successful_ storytelling of that nature.  In a perfect world, shows like Exosquad and Roughnecks and Firefly would see their stories through to the end.  But they didn't, and like it or not being complete is part of what raises Avatar above them.



in exosquad they beat Phaeton. So it sort of did end.

Goddamn aliens appeared in the final episode.


----------



## Wan (Aug 13, 2011)

In other news:  The gAang is appearing in a baseball game.  With Fanboy and Chum-Chum.


----------



## Glued (Aug 13, 2011)

what is dany phantom


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 13, 2011)

Oman said:


> Ok I admit I'm only familiar with one of those -- FMA -- but I'm pretty sure that FMA doesn't qualify as an "average shounen anime".  But anyways, Avatar's themes went beyond politics and war.



Is Avatar an "average western animation?" Its the most expensive animated series Nickelodeons got - like over a million dollars per episode right...?!

Anyways, do you know the psychological crap the characters had to go through in that series. The self-doubt, the shame, the regret, the hopelessness.

Do you think Katara's and Zuko's loss of their mother was more potent than Winry's loss of her parents?  



> So you're holding up one of the most mature kid's shows you've ever seen as an example?  It doesn't help your point.



I never claimed Avatar was one of the most mature animated shows out there, all the shounen series I already mentioned surpass avatar in related themes. 

What I hear a lot is, Avatar deals with war, its so mature etc. etc. 

Yet Animals of Farthing Wood isnt about a fantasy world at war - it draws its its themes from everyday, real life dilemmas, like deforestation or the infringing of the human environment on the natural, poaching, conservation. 

But you know what makes it more mature than Avatar - its presentation. It doesnt try to balance a serious episode with lighthearted one. Every aspects serves an over-arching story.  And it isnt all gloom and doom either, there are genuine events of triumph and rejoicing - but it all fits and never feels disjointed.  

Thats why I hold it higher, not because of the themes itself but how they are executed...


----------



## Wan (Aug 13, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Do you know the psychological crap the characters had to go through in that series. The self-doubt, the shame, the regret, the hopelessness.
> 
> Do you think Katara's and Zuko's loss of their mother was more potent than Winry's loss of her parents?



...no, and I never implied that I do.  FMA is actually one of my favorite shows, and I haven't even finished watching Brotherhood.  When I finish watching I may well put it above Avatar.  If only those Netflix DVDs would get here faster...

But regardless, Fullmetal Alchemist is not an average anime.  So it doesn't help your claim that Avatar is no more mature than an average anime.



> I never claimed Avatar was one of the most mature animated shows out there, all the shounen series I already mentioned surpass avatar in themes.
> 
> What I hear a lot is, Avatar deals with war, its so mature etc. etc.
> 
> ...



Again, you missed my point.  When asked for _average_ shows that are as or more mature than Avatar, you respond by giving what, in your view, is one of the most mature Western series that you've seen.  It doesn't help your claim.  Sure, it might be better, but that doesn't make Avatar worse regarding the whole medium.



			
				Ben Grimm said:
			
		

> what is dany phantom



The show with a kid who transforms into a ghost superhero that aired about the same time as Avatar did.  It was created by the same guy who does Fairly Odd Parents, Butch Hartman.


----------



## Glued (Aug 13, 2011)

Oh yes there was also Invasion America, which was lucky to end successfully in one season.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 13, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Alright then, Korra fanart page-stretch time:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


Yea, Korra fanarts! 

I love the three after the first image! Saved them all and added to the library. 

And  @ the Zutara image. xD


Okay, that was pretty funny -- at least three of them I mean


----------



## Glued (Aug 13, 2011)

Oman said:


> The show with a kid who transforms into a ghost superhero that aired about the same time as Avatar did.  It was created by the same guy who does Fairly Odd Parents, Butch Hartman.



is it good?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 13, 2011)

@ Oman, 

Avatar is not itself an "average western animation" is it? Nickelodeons most expensive animated series right?

Its better than Bleach do you want to say? Better than Naruto? 

Any anime thats actually worth an intellectual discussion shakes there head at Naruto and Bleach (no offense fans).

Being better than those animes is nothing to write home about...

And I said the _themes_ were average, you get a lot of those war/political themes in Naruto already, see we have_ Naruto _one the most exposed animes internationally all over Avatars themes. That makes avatars mature themes less special already...


----------



## Jena (Aug 13, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> is it good?



I liked it. 

Is it as deep/emotional as Avatar? No. But it's entertaining.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 13, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> is it good?



If you compare it to Avatar...its not. But on its own, its a pretty good show. Some of the characters have a little bit of annoying voices, but it was enjoyable I thought. You should give it a try


----------



## Wan (Aug 13, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> @ Oman,
> 
> Avatar is not itself an "average western animation" is it? Nickelodeons most expensive animated series right?
> 
> ...



Then I defer back to what Dream Brother said.  Just because a show has "mature" themes doesn't make the way it actually handles them mature.  How Avatar handles its themes is what makes it special, IMO.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 13, 2011)

Oman said:


> Then I defer back to what Dream Brother said.  Just because a show has "mature" themes doesn't make the way it actually handles them mature.  How Avatar handles its themes is what makes it special, IMO.



Then I refer back to my post, where the other shows I mentioned that have them same/parallel "mature" themes. (I never even went into seinen category)

Similar themes to Avatar - but handled it better than Avatar too. So I put those shows above Avatar making it not so special _relatively._ In my opinion.

Which comes down to one of my points - when Avatar is placed with the opens bracket of "animated shows" (of all genres/demographics). Its a decent show to watch, but not really "up there" in maturity in regards to themes or execution. In my opinion.

So thats my reasoning, and no one has to agree, but if people quote  my posts claiming they want me to prove something - well you are going to get my reasoning. Take it or leave it...


----------



## Jena (Aug 13, 2011)

Oman said:


> Then I defer back to what Dream Brother said.





Waking Dreamer said:


> Then I refer back to my post, where the other shows I mentioned that have them same/parallel "mature" themes. (I never even went into seinen category)



And I defer to


----------



## Wan (Aug 13, 2011)

I just realized...Bryan Konietzco looks like David Tennant.


----------



## Burke (Aug 13, 2011)

Butch hartman involved = good
all you need to know 

Anyways, if i see one more korra waterbending fanart, ill make my own damn fanart of her firebending.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 13, 2011)

It's odd how Korra seems so _at home_ when firebending and _looks _like a firebender, when she is a waterbender. Especially when fire should be her opposite. It's cool too. Maybe it's cos she's the Avatar, but even Aang didn't look or act like he fit as another bender. I hope the show addresses that. Not criticizing though.

@Walking Dreamer: If you're going to claim Avatar is not one of, if not the, most mature shows, I expected comparable examples which fit into the same category as Avatar:

- animated shows
- american or western originated, so NOT ANIME
- shows aimed at kids primarily

You can only compare it so shows in those categories because otherwise they are not comparable. It would be like comparing True Blood to Avatar.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 13, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> @Walking Dreamer: If you're going to claim Avatar is not one of, if not the, most mature shows, I expected comparable examples which fit into the same category as Avatar:
> 
> - animated shows
> - american or western originated, so NOT ANIME
> ...



I did mention a show. Animals of Farthing Wood - which is definitely a level above in maturity in its presentation.

Also, I am only claiming Avatar is NOT one of, if not the most mature _animated_ shows. I never set on putting it up against live-action dramas in the least...I have watched all of Ben Grimms references as well and I agree they had pretty mature themes.

*Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles* is definitely one up there - and above in war themes from what IRC. It was on FoxKids. 

Its actually an animated series based on the novel of Starship Troopers. Its about Ricco joining up with the squad Razak's Roughnecks and how they go on missions around the planets fighting the Bugs, joining with the another alien race the Tophets to fight them, and his promotion up the ranks etc.



> *It would be like comparing True Blood to Avatar.*



Strawman argument. Avatar is completely removed from True Blood in medium (live action), audience (adults) and themes (Sex, violence, death, drug abuse etc.)

Particular anime is still within the ballpark of comparison, otherwise the statement:

_"Avatar is one of, if not the most mature animated shows." _

Is incorrect because all Anime is of the animated medium.


----------



## Darth (Aug 13, 2011)

So thoughts on who'll be voicing adult Aang?

And will Mark Hamill return?


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 13, 2011)

Darth said:


> So thoughts on who'll be voicing adult Aang?
> 
> And will Mark Hamill return?


Mark Hamill was in Avatar??? Amazing! As the Fire Lord? Oh yeah.


@Walking Dreamer: OK look.

I am discussing and explaining how Avatar is unique because it is one of few mature western cartoons primarily aimed at kids.

Kids anime are well known to adopt mature themes, which makes them comparable to Avatar.

I'm an not discussing if or how much Avatar is comparable to anime. You seemed to have missed the entire point of the discussion. So I do not know what or why you are arguing. It is obvious Avatar is comparable to Anime, which you seem to know as well.

Again, I am discussing and explaining how Avatar is unique because it is one of few mature western cartoons primarily aimed at kids, which is comparable to kids anime which also commonly adopt mature themes.

When I'm asking for other cartoons similar to Avatar, which are kids cartoons adopting mature themes, you listing anime makes no sense because it is already an established fact that kids anime are already similar. I want to know WESTERN cartoons which adopt mature themes, just for sake of knowing or discussion, appreciation or to eventually watch myself if I have not seem them already.

Again, I do not know what or why you are arguing or why you are listing anime. You could tell I was confused about your point for a while since I constantly had to ask you what you point was. Someone else even asked that too I think.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 13, 2011)

In the first series, Piandao was a master swordsman with a great reputation, but he never mentioned having had any students apart from Sokka. I find that to be rather unusual, as I would expect such a renowned martial arts master as him to have had more students.

On that subject, what sort of legacy may Piandao have in _The Legend of Korra?_ Will his dojo remain, or will his art have become obsolete with advances in technology?


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 13, 2011)

> I adore Avatar season 1 and 2, they were great and showed great potential. Season 3 was crunch time for the entire story the time were everything that meant something was to be put on the line...here it dropped the ball, and yeah it was the weakest of the seasons...when it should have been the strongest.



I'm glad you actually clarified this. From the look of your posts, it's easy to get the impression that you simply dislike the whole series. As for your thoughts on season three in particular, the interesting thing is that I actually agree to a certain extent -- I remember criticising the way the show ended, but unlike you, I didn't mind the episode structure, and I don't think it completely dropped the ball either. I think it was still good, but could have been better in certain areas. 

My favourite season is definitely the second one -- everything just comes together there.


----------



## Wan (Aug 13, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In the first series, Piandao was a master swordsman with a great reputation, but he never mentioned having had any students apart from Sokka. I find that to be rather unusual, as I would expect such a renowned martial arts master as him to have had more students.
> 
> On that subject, what sort of legacy may Piandao have in _The Legend of Korra?_ Will his dojo remain, or will his art have become obsolete with advances in technology?



Actually according to comics Zuko trained with Piandao as a young boy.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 13, 2011)

And he was very selective about students. Sokka was probably his first student in a very long time.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 13, 2011)

Oman said:


> Actually according to comics Zuko trained with Piandao as a young boy.



That is very cool, and likely the explanation for how Zuko has such great skill with swords.


----------



## Wan (Aug 13, 2011)

He let that slip when Sokka challenged him to a "swordbending kai".  Basically he was all like "I trained with Piandao as a kid so I think I can take a beginner like you" and proceeded to completely trounce Sokka.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 14, 2011)

Oman said:


> He let that slip when Sokka challenged him to a "swordbending kai".  Basically he was all like "I trained with Piandao as a kid so I think I can take a beginner like you" and proceeded to completely trounce Sokka.



Zuko is my favorite character, so any time where he can display his awesomeness is good to me.


----------



## Pinkie Pie (Aug 16, 2011)

I really should read the comics. It's the only possible thing that can fill the void until Korra is released. 

The reruns are fun, but it gets tiresome when they _keep_ playing them nonstop.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 16, 2011)

Harley Q, how can you be tired of the original series?


----------



## Jena (Aug 16, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Harley Q, how can you be tired of the original series?



They play the same three episodes on rerun all the time.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 16, 2011)

1. Buy DVDs
2. Start epic rewatch at own leisure
3. ????
4. Profit


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 16, 2011)

Jena, I don't watch Nick much anymore. Are the reruns playing there?


----------



## Jena (Aug 16, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Jena, I don't watch Nick much anymore. Are the reruns playing there?



Yep.

Although...I don't know if they've been playing it lately. 

I don't have cable, but I hang out at my friend's house a lot. The pilot, the one one with the drill, and the one where Aang goes to a firebending school they play/ed _all_ the time. I haven't watched Nick recently [read: In a little over a year], though.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 16, 2011)

Dammit, I could easily just go on the Wii to find all the episodes!! The Pilot...meh. The Drill? Awesome!  Firebending school? Boring!!


----------



## Stunna (Aug 16, 2011)

Yeah they show reruns all the time, but I do tend to feel like it's the same episode all the time. S'why I got the series on DVD.


----------



## Burke (Aug 16, 2011)

Maybe ill buy the set for myself as a college present.


----------



## Jena (Aug 16, 2011)

Do they have a boxed set out? 

Last I checked they only had each season individually for sale. I haven't gotten around to buying them because I have no money.


----------



## Burke (Aug 16, 2011)

Jena said:


> Do they have a boxed set out?
> 
> Last I checked they only had each season individually for sale. I haven't gotten around to buying them because I have no money.



god i hope so


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 16, 2011)

They have each season individually, a collector's edition for Book 1, and the volume dvds (5 for Book 1, 4 each for Books 2 and 3).


Of course, the collector's edition of Book 1 was merely the regular Book 1 box set, box and all, stuffed into a different box with the bonus content.


A full box set, containing all three books, seems unlikely. I'm not sure what else they can do. More commentaries would be nice. Or maybe packaging an OST _with_ the box set.


----------



## Burke (Aug 16, 2011)

Finally some damn fire.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 16, 2011)

^ Ooohhh, pretty


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 16, 2011)

omg that is hot.

No pun intended D:


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 17, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> omg that is hot.
> 
> No pun intended D:



Heat is often associated with emotion and passion, so it is no coincidence that the word "hot" is often used to describe people who are attractive.

And I do agree that that is a very well-drawn image. Why do actual animated series never have such detailed artwork? Would it be too expensive to have such a great level of detail, I presume?


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> And I do agree that that is a very well-drawn image. Why do actual animated series never have such detailed artwork? Would it be too expensive to have such a great level of detail, I presume?



Bingo. You might be able to see a one off short film animated with that much detail. Certainly not a $800k-1,000,000 an episode series.


----------



## Burke (Aug 17, 2011)

Ive decided im going to change my name
...


----------



## Jena (Aug 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Heat is often associated with emotion and passion, so it is no coincidence that the word "hot" is often used to describe people who are attractive.






> And I do agree that that is a very well-drawn image. Why do actual animated series never have such detailed artwork? Would it be too expensive to have such a great level of detail, I presume?


Yeah. It's also really hard to animate something that detailed. The simpler the image, the easier it is to animate.

There are some short films (1-3 minutes long) that have really detailed animation similar to that image. If you dig around youtube you can probably find them.



N??ps said:


> Ive decided im going to change my name
> ...


To what?


----------



## Burke (Aug 17, 2011)

St. Burke

Its the name i use for like everything


----------



## Heloves (Aug 17, 2011)

I have a question.. could Aang learn how to Metal bend if Toph taught him?


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 17, 2011)

Heloves said:


> I have a question.. could Aang learn how to Metal bend if Toph taught him?



Absolutely.
She actually might have since the last time we saw him.


----------



## Heloves (Aug 17, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Absolutely.
> She actually might have since the last time we saw him.



would be interesting .......


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 17, 2011)

Heloves said:


> would be interesting .......



If it were executed in exactly the right manner, I am certain that it would be interesting, but I believe that it is more likely that it would make Aang even more overpowered than he is already, being the Avatar; plus, it is better to leave metalbending as Toph's signature ability, in my mind, so that each main character has their own unique traits (such as Katara being able to heal).


----------



## Wan (Aug 17, 2011)

Toph taught the cops of Republic City to metalbend, I don't think there would be any problem in teaching Aang.


----------



## Jena (Aug 17, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If it were executed in exactly the right manner, I am certain that it would be interesting, but I believe that it is more likely that it would make Aang even more overpowered than he is already, being the Avatar; plus, it is better to leave metalbending as Toph's signature ability, in my mind, so that each main character has their own unique traits (such as Katara being able to heal).



Didn't they say at the Comic Con panel that Toph started a metal-bending training facility?


----------



## Wan (Aug 17, 2011)

Also, Katara's healing isn't exactly a unique ability...all the female waterbenders at the Northern Tribe learn it.  Aang just never bothered learning it because it's too weak to really have direct use in combat (unless you've got Oasis water on hand).


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 17, 2011)

Jena said:


> Didn't they say at the Comic Con panel that Toph started a metal-bending training facility?



Really Jena? Toph founding her own Metalbending dojo in the Republican City? Sweet!


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 18, 2011)

Jena said:


> Didn't they say at the Comic Con panel that Toph started a metal-bending training facility?





Ruby Moon said:


> Really Jena? Toph founding her own Metalbending dojo in the Republican City? Sweet!



I don't remember hearing that, but my memory is a bit foggy about the panel.

Time to re-watch!


----------



## Jena (Aug 18, 2011)

Wait, I think this is what I was thinking of:


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 18, 2011)

Oh.

The Metalbending Training Facility sounds much cooler though.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 18, 2011)

No one has posted this bit of news.
*Avatar: The Last Airbender--The Lost Adventures Sells Out!*

As of this writing it's in the 34th spot of the Amazon bestselling graphic novel list and the 3rd spot on the bestselling Manga list. With this news and the Artbook selling very well last year, it bodes well for the upcoming ongoing Avatar series from Dark Horse next year. 
There's definitely an audience hungry for new stories so as long as the title remains at consistently good quality, it should do very well.

Pretty obvious statement though, right? Perhaps that's easier said than done.
Hopefully the talent is top notch.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 18, 2011)

Well, I did my part. I ordered it the moment I saw it was available.


----------



## Burke (Aug 18, 2011)

Tsk, its just that nick mag stuff?

I thought we were talking about the other upcoming comic.


----------



## Kirito (Aug 18, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Well, I did my part. I ordered it the moment I saw it was available.



Upload the images the moment you receive it yes?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 18, 2011)

The presence of the Metalbending Cops is very interesting: I wonder if they can bend metal from a distance, or only in close range, as was the case with Toph herself. I also wonder if the practice of using waterbending for healing will be affected by any advantages in medical technology. On that subject, no Avatar has even been shown to use waterbending for healing, so I wonder if Korra shall learn to do so, as she apparently does not have another waterbender among her companions, although, from what has been shown of her personality, thus far, I doubt that she would care to learn the art of healing.


----------



## The Imp (Aug 18, 2011)

Okay I finished the series a few days ago. I had a few problems here and there but overall it was pretty amazing. I'm going to write down some rambling thoughts.

Season 2 was definitely the strongest season. Zuko's transformation from a relatively flat villain to an anti-hero with complex motivations was incredible. Iroh really grew as his own character instead of the wacky uncle that tags along with Zuko in Season 1. His tale in _The Tales Of Ba Sing Se_ is one of my favourite parts of the entire show. He's helping all of these people with their troubles, giving them advice. He's the pillar that Zuko can always count on. And then you see him break down and cry because he couldn't do that for his own son. It's makes Zuko's betrayal in the season finale that much more powerful. Zuko pretty much carried the first half of season 3 for me. His realization that he made the wrong decision and his confrontation with his father was fantastic, the best part of the invasion. 

I liked many of the new characters that they introduced, particularly Toph. Azula was a cool villain. She's pretty flat but her descent into insanity in Season 3 was an interesting thing to see. 

Aang's backstory was nice and he does a lot of cool things but I never really found him interesting. The only time I did was the second half of season 2 when he lost Appa. 

Of the 3 season finales, I liked Season 2's the most, followed by Season 1 and I liked the Series finale the least. The Season 2 finale had everything going for it. The fall of Ba Sing Se, Katara and Zuko having their heart to heart moment, Zuko's betrayal, Aang letting go of Katara so he can enter the Avatar state only to be shot down with lightning, Toph's metalbending. The battle was great and the animation was superb. 

Season 1's was great as well. Sokka and Yue's relationship and her eventual sacrifice was the best part imo. It was cool seeing Aang fuck shit up in the Avatar State as well. We saw the some of the first hints of Zuko being more than what he seemed. I didn't like how Katara became so amazing at waterbending that quickly though. In episode 11 or 12 she had trouble with the basics but when she confronted Pakku she was going toe to toe with a master before she had even learned anything significant. 

I really didn't like the Series finale though. Aang getting hit in the back with the rock and going into the avatar state followed by spirit bending had me facepalming the whole time. It's not just the deus ex machina that pisses me off. Aang was training the whole time to master the elements himself and then fight the fire lord. Going into the avatar state to defeat him made everything he went through kind of pointless. Sure he wasn't ready to beat the Fire Lord but I would have preferred nerfing the Fire Lord or making Aang ridiculously powerful over what they chose. 

It was good that they gave Aang one final moral dilemna. Killing him was out of the question. Sure it would be interesting to see how it would affect Aang afterwords but as a series finale it doesn't work well having the main charcter sacrifice his ideals. The spirit bending solution would have been fine if they had laid the foundation for it earlier instead of using a magical turtle. I felt they tossed away the Guru character too early. They could have used him and his training to prepare Aang for spirit bending.

Zuko and Katara vs Azula was great. As was Iroh's conquest of Ba Sing Se. I kind of hoped Iroh would show us more of his abilities though. The Sokka/Suki/Toph plot was decent I guess.

There were lots of great dramatic episodes in the show that I liked. Zuko + the Azula trio on Ember Island was a good episode. Katara learning Bloodbending and searching for her mother's killer were both great as well. There was a discussion going on earlier about the balance of drama and humor in this series. I kind of agree they should balance both aspects more within the episodes themselves rather than dedicating entire episodes to one or the other. A key example would be _Nightmares and Daydreams_. It was a good idea to explore but they made almost all of it comic relief rather than balancing the serious and light hearted stuff. 

The soundtrack and animation were good throughout as well.

Also I have a question. Bloodbending is an advanced form of waterbending. Shooting lightning is an advanced form of firebending. Metalbending is an advanced form of earthbending. We never saw an advanced form of airbending and I can't really think of anything interesting or relevant enough that would fit. What do you guys think it would be?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 18, 2011)

The Imp said:


> The spirit bending solution would have been fine if they had laid the foundation for it earlier instead of using a magical turtle. I felt they tossed away the Guru character too early. They could have used him and his training to prepare Aang for spirit bending.


Energybending is hinted at with Aang finding Appa in Foggy Swamp and with Guru Pathik finding Aang for Appa.

The Lion Turtles are also depicted throughout the series, at least once in every nation, I think, implying a cross-culture force.


----------



## Jena (Aug 18, 2011)

The Imp said:


> Also I have a question. Bloodbending is an advanced form of waterbending. Shooting lightning is an advanced form of firebending. Metalbending is an advanced form of earthbending. We never saw an advanced form of airbending and I can't really think of anything interesting or relevant enough that would fit. What do you guys think it would be?



Well, it would be hard to tell what advanced technique would be since there's only one airbender (or only a few, if you're talking about Korra). But maybe the air scooter could be considered an advanced technique  Aang invented it and was the only airbender to use it.


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 18, 2011)

Jena said:


> Well, it would be hard to tell what advanced technique would be since there's only one airbender (or only a few, if you're talking about Korra). But maybe the air scooter could be considered an advanced technique  Aang invented it and was the only airbender to use it.



To become an Airbending Master don't you have to create a new technique?

There could be tons of 'advanced' techniques.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 18, 2011)

Jena said:


> Aang invented it and was the only airbender to use it.


In Aang's flashbacks from "The Storm," Aang teaches the other kids how to use the Air Scooter, and the other kids develop a game for it.


----------



## The Imp (Aug 18, 2011)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Energybending is hinted at with Aang finding Appa in Foggy Swamp and with Guru Pathik finding Aang for Appa.
> 
> The Lion Turtles are also depicted throughout the series, at least once in every nation, I think, implying a cross-culture force.



So then is it Aang permanently closing Ozai's chakras or is it something completely different?

I still feel like there wasn't enough foreshadowing of it, but I'll concede there might be a few instances in which we see energybending.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 18, 2011)

The Imp said:


> So then is it Aang permanently closing Ozai's chakras or is it something completely different?


Yeah, it seems similar to the Chi Blocking Ty Lee uses.


----------



## Jena (Aug 18, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> To become an Airbending Master don't you have to create a new technique?
> 
> There could be tons of 'advanced' techniques.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right.



Dragonus Nesha said:


> In Aang's flashbacks from "The Storm," Aang teaches the other kids how to use the Air Scooter, and the other kids develop a game for it.



Maybe not, then.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 18, 2011)

I also believe that Energybending was first hinted at with Bumi telling Aang to think like a mad genius when he fights the Fire Lord in their first meeting in a hundred years.


----------



## Wan (Aug 18, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> No one has posted this bit of news.
> *Avatar: The Last Airbender--The Lost Adventures Sells Out!*
> 
> As of this writing it's in the 34th spot of the Amazon bestselling graphic novel list and the 3rd spot on the bestselling Manga list. With this news and the Artbook selling very well last year, it bodes well for the upcoming ongoing Avatar series from Dark Horse next year.
> ...



_Yes!_  Always exciting to see quality work pay off. 



N??ps said:


> Tsk, its just that nick mag stuff?
> 
> I thought we were talking about the other upcoming comic.



Have you actually read it?  Some of the comics are pretty good -- short, but good (and they do a lot to fill in holes between books 2 and 3).  There's a good number of original comics that never appeared in Nickmags either.  Anyways this bodes well for the publishing and success of the graphic novel series next year.



The Imp said:


> I really didn't like the Series finale though. Aang getting hit in the back with the rock and going into the avatar state followed by spirit bending had me facepalming the whole time. It's not just the deus ex machina that pisses me off. Aang was training the whole time to master the elements himself and then fight the fire lord. Going into the avatar state to defeat him made everything he went through kind of pointless. Sure he wasn't ready to beat the Fire Lord but I would have preferred nerfing the Fire Lord or making Aang ridiculously powerful over what they chose.
> 
> It was good that they gave Aang one final moral dilemna. Killing him was out of the question. Sure it would be interesting to see how it would affect Aang afterwords but as a series finale it doesn't work well having the main charcter sacrifice his ideals. The spirit bending solution would have been fine if they had laid the foundation for it earlier instead of using a magical turtle. I felt they tossed away the Guru character too early. They could have used him and his training to prepare Aang for spirit bending.



The pointy rock triggering the Avatar State is kind of cheap but didn't bother me too much.  Aang has conveniently entered the Avatar State before (the Season 1 finale in particular) and it was established in "Day of Black Sun, Part 1" that it was the wound which was preventing him from entering the Avatar State at all.  The goal for most of the show, established in "The Winter Solstice Part 2", is for Aang to fight Ozai _before_ the comet arrives, not after and certainly not during it.  This is restated in the opening scene of Sozin's Comet.  Aang had been training to fight Ozai _without_ the Comet.  Heck, he was worried about fighting Ozai on the Day of Black Sun when he wouldn't have any firebending at all, and retreated when he failed to reach Ozai in time.  Using the Avatar State to defeat Ozai during the Comet didn't make his training pointless because winning the fight under those conditions was never the point in the first place.

Plus, you have to give Ozai some props.  He lasted waaaaaay longer than anyone who had faced Aang in the Avatar State before did.  He actually made Aang actively defend himself! 

As for the energybending, it's always been the case that Aang has some odd Avatar spirit powers going on.  The ability to energybend was set up earlier in the finale.  Could it have been specifically foreshadowed earlier in the series?  Sure, but I don't think the finale suffered for it not being so.

And btw I will note before the Season 1 finale, Katara had been steadily getting better since getting the waterbending scroll. She did a full-body freeze of Jet in "Jet", waterbended a large volume of perfume in "Bato of the Water Tribe" and waterbended Bato's ship sailboat over rocks, and turned over tanks with icebending in "The Northern Air Temple".  They were just holding back on her achieving anything major so they could get the dramatic effect of seeing Katara _kick ass_ in The Waterbending Scroll and The Siege of the North.



> There were lots of great dramatic episodes in the show that I liked. Zuko + the Azula trio on Ember Island was a good episode.



Oh boy oh boy oh boy! 



> Also I have a question. Bloodbending is an advanced form of waterbending. Shooting lightning is an advanced form of firebending. Metalbending is an advanced form of earthbending. We never saw an advanced form of airbending and I can't really think of anything interesting or relevant enough that would fit. What do you guys think it would be?



...flight, maybe?



The Imp said:


> So then is it Aang permanently closing Ozai's chakras or is it something completely different?



In the DVD commentary the creators described it as "rewiring Ozai's chi" (which is different than chakras).


----------



## Burke (Aug 18, 2011)

Oman said:


> Have you actually read it?  Some of the comics are pretty good -- short, but good (and they do a lot to fill in holes between books 2 and 3).  There's a good number of original comics that never appeared in Nickmags either.  Anyways this bodes well for the publishing and success of the graphic novel series next year.



I picked up a nick mag once, saw cookie dough bending, and then left.


----------



## The Imp (Aug 18, 2011)

Oman said:


> The pointy rock triggering the Avatar State is kind of cheap but didn't bother me too much.  Aang has conveniently entered the Avatar State before (the Season 1 finale in particular) and it was established in "Day of Black Sun, Part 1" that it was the wound which was preventing him from entering the Avatar State at all.  The goal for most of the show, established in "The Winter Solstice Part 2", is for Aang to fight Ozai _before_ the comet arrives, not after and certainly not during it.  This is restated in the opening scene of Sozin's Comet.  Aang had been training to fight Ozai _without_ the Comet.  Heck, he was worried about fighting Ozai on the Day of Black Sun when he wouldn't have any firebending at all, and retreated when he failed to reach Ozai in time.  Using the Avatar State to defeat Ozai during the Comet didn't make his training pointless because winning the fight under those conditions was never the point in the first place.


In the past, there was never a physical injury preventing Aang from entering the Avatar State. His battle with Ozai doesn't feel as gratifying because he succeeded using the skills of others instead of beating him on his own merits. 



> Plus, you have to give Ozai some props.  He lasted waaaaaay longer than anyone who had faced Aang in the Avatar State before did.  He actually made Aang actively defend himself!


Lmao, he lasted that long because he was running away most of the time. He knew he would get beat down bad if he fought the Avatar head to head.  



> As for the energybending, it's always been the case that Aang has some odd Avatar spirit powers going on.  The ability to energybend was set up earlier in the finale.  Could it have been specifically foreshadowed earlier in the series?  Sure, but I don't think the finale suffered for it not being so.


When he was speaking to his past lives none of them knew about energy bending. If they did they would have told him clearly what to do. Energy bending doesn't seem that common even for the avatar. 

I didn't like the manner in which he learned to do it. A Lion-Turtle basically touched him, probably passing on some form of knowledge, and ta-da Aang knows how to permanently stop someone from bending.



> And btw I will note before the Season 1 finale, Katara had been steadily getting better since getting the waterbending scroll. She did a full-body freeze of Jet in "Jet", waterbended a large volume of perfume in "Bato of the Water Tribe" and waterbended Bato's ship sailboat over rocks, and turned over tanks with icebending in "The Northern Air Temple".  They were just holding back on her achieving anything major so they could get the dramatic effect of seeing Katara _kick ass_ in The Waterbending Scroll and The Siege of the North.


You're right. I guess I didn't notice it as clearly because I marathoned the show.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 18, 2011)

That's because energy bending hasn't been widely used or renowned since the times before the first Avatar was created.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 18, 2011)

@The Imp:
Glad you liked the show! 

I always thought Airbending itself is advanced. An Airbender could create a bubble around someone, suck the air out of someone's lungs or something like that. Or at least, that's what I always thought about it. xD


----------



## Jena (Aug 18, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @The Imp:
> Glad you liked the show!
> 
> I always thought Airbending itself is advanced. An Airbender could create a bubble around someone, suck the air out of someone's lungs or something like that. Or at least, that's what I always thought about it. xD



That's so morbid.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 18, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> To become an Airbending Master don't you have to create a new technique?
> 
> There could be tons of 'advanced' techniques.



Yeah. There are 36 tiers an Airbender has to master to receive the arrows. Aang passed the first 35, and then invented the air scooter technique so they gave him the master title early. That suggest to me that inventing a move is the ultimate test of an Airbender, since it is presumed that you have to pass the 36 tiers in order to do it.




N??ps said:


> I picked up a nick mag once, saw cookie dough bending, and then left.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 18, 2011)

Jena said:


> That's so morbid.



It's the truth. I like speculating about all the ways in which Airbending can be used.


----------



## Burke (Aug 18, 2011)

Say what you want, but after shadow bending, i take nothing in that comic as canonical


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 18, 2011)

Cookie Dough Bending is real. It doesn't even have a guiding originator, like the moon or badger-moles. Avaverse Humankind did not mimick anything; they invented Cookie Dough Bending by sheer will and necessity.


----------



## Burke (Aug 18, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Cookie Dough Bending is real. It doesn't even have a guiding originator, like the moon or badger-moles. Avaverse Humankind did not mimick anything; they invented Cookie Dough Bending by sheer will and necessity.



this is why i heart you


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 18, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Cookie Dough Bending is real. It doesn't even have a guiding originator, like the moon or badger-moles. Avaverse Humankind did not mimick anything; they invented Cookie Dough Bending by sheer will and necessity.



Ooohhhh, YES! pek


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 18, 2011)

And let's be clear: you don't bend the water in the dough, you don't bend the earth in the ingredients... you bend the cookie dough. Simple as that.


----------



## Time Expired (Aug 18, 2011)

.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 19, 2011)

I don't own any of the lost scrolls but I do remember reading about the 36 tiers of Airbending. Reference to the 36 chambers of Shaolin, right?
@Noops do you mean that specific comic or the entire collection overall?
That's definitely the silliest one of all and a throwaway at best. You should read _The Bridge_ and _Going Home Again_. Those I know for a fact are in the canon.
_Relics_ is also a fine one and Sokka the Avatar is fairly humorous. 

What I'm saying is, give them another chance until the official Dark Horse title is released. I don't own The Lost Adventures either but I'd like to read _Dragon Days_ and _Combustion Man On A Train_.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 19, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> And let's be clear: you don't bend the water in the dough, you don't bend the earth in the ingredients... you bend the cookie dough. Simple as that.



How is that possible? Cookie dough is not an element, and there has been no evidence that benders in this series can bend anything other than the four basic elements of ancient scientific beliefs.


----------



## Burke (Aug 19, 2011)

You have to learn not to take Jove seriously while simultaneously believing everything he says.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 19, 2011)

Grah! I feel like cookie-dough bending.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 19, 2011)

This irks me how little people understand animation.

I thought it was common sense that animation is a long tedious process as it is with moderately simplified drawings.

To ask of that much detail is both grotesquely self-entitled and ignorant, and decadently inconsiderate to the craft and artists.

Never mind that it should be excruciatingly obvious that in common knowledge, animation is doing many many many similar drawings, incrementally different each frame. To replicate the same amount of detail consistently, would be a maddening, disgustingly expensive feat for mere television, or even possibly cinema.

Not to mention that there are certain aesthetics for animation and still art that wouldn't go well together.

It would either be jerky and choppy, or messy.

Most still art tries to convey motion and depth, and atmosphere in the work alone. Most of the effort going into it is to convey this information.

Animation can do this easier, but there is still effort involved, a lot of it is dedicated to consistency and fluidity.


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 19, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> This irks me how little people understand animation.
> 
> I thought it was common sense that animation is a long tedious process as it is with moderately simplified drawings.
> 
> ...



As coherent and well thought out your post was to you when you wrote it down, your point hides somewhere in this string of seemingly unconnected sentences.

Are you complaining about people not fully understanding the animation process and production of these episodes?

Yes? No? Maybe? Lobster?


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 19, 2011)

They don't do each frame from scratch, do they?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 19, 2011)

That's what I assumed. Which is why I gave up being an animator a long time ago.


----------



## Burke (Aug 19, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> They don't do each frame from scratch, do they?



not exactly/entirely


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 19, 2011)

MunchKing said:


> As coherent and well thought out your post was to you when you wrote it down, your point hides somewhere in this string of seemingly unconnected sentences.
> 
> Are you complaining about people not fully understanding the animation process and production of these episodes?
> 
> Yes? No? Maybe? Lobster?


That was to DDJ a page ago


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 20, 2011)

It's insane to think that my idea of an animator sitting at a desk, drawing on a light box and flipping pages is entirely obsolete now.


Welcome to the paperless animation studio


I believe that Mike and Bryan mentioned that this was the huge change that occurred when they went back to work at Nickelodeon.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 20, 2011)

N??ps said:


> You have to learn not to take Jove seriously while simultaneously believing everything he says.



I take almost everything in life seriously; that is how I survive and live my daily life. There are times when I am less serious, but those are rare instances.



ReikaiDemon said:


> That was to DDJ a page ago



I am no expert in the area of animation, but I do know that it takes time, effort, and money, so there is a limit to have detailed the animation can be. I never said that I believed otherwise.



Superstarseven said:


> It's insane to think that my idea of an animator sitting at a desk, drawing on a light box and flipping pages is entirely obsolete now.
> 
> 
> Welcome to the paperless animation studio
> ...



It is amazing how technology can advance as time passes, is it not? Compare the original _Thundercats_ series with the new _Thundercats_ series, or the original _Doom_ with the new _Doom 3;_ the graphics of television series and video games have improved by simply phenomenal amounts in the past several decades (although story lines are not automatically guaranteed to improve, as well, unfortunately).


----------



## Jena (Aug 20, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> It's insane to think that my idea of an animator sitting at a desk, drawing on a light box and flipping pages is entirely obsolete now.
> 
> 
> Welcome to the paperless animation studio
> ...



I'm sure the animators greatly prefer using the computers, though. 

It takes them so much less time to make an animated movie/show. I wonder if Disney was resurrected how he would react to the technology. 


Of course, he might die again of shock on the spot after finding out that his company now features *gasp* minorities in their movies, so after _that_ resurrection.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 20, 2011)

I think that everything switching to digital saves more on money than it does on time.  No big orders of paper, blue pencils, ink, paint or cells anymore. It makes sense that studios would all switch to graphic tablets. My memory is hazy but I do remember seeing a special on animation years ago where someone was hand drawing on a pad and looking at it via a computer monitor. I thought that was pretty amazing back then.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 20, 2011)

I still do paper...But the rest is in digital


----------



## Burke (Aug 21, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I still do paper...But the rest is in digital



And youve never shown us your work?
for shame reikai


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 21, 2011)

When I watched the series, and reached the end of the second season, I was hoping that the main characters would be separated, and thus need to spend the first several episodes of the third season each having their own adventures and seeking to regroup. I noticed that the main heroes were together in almost every episode of the series, so I think that it would have been an interesting new idea for the series. What does everyone else believe? Would that have been an interesting idea, or would it not have worked?


----------



## The Imp (Aug 21, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When I watched the series, and reached the end of the second season, I was hoping that the main characters would be separated, and thus need to spend the first several episodes of the third season each having their own adventures and seeking to regroup. I noticed that the main heroes were together in almost every episode of the series, so I think that it would have been an interesting new idea for the series. What does everyone else believe? Would that have been an interesting idea, or would it not have worked?



Well, they did split up in the season 2 finale and then joined up later, but I don't think it would work out in the long term. If they were forcibly separated the gang would have gone to rescue eachother. And they wouldn't voluntarily leave because Katara and Toph were still helping Aang train for his fight with Ozai. Plus Aang was unconscious for a long time so they couldn't leave him by himself.

It's an interesting idea though. Each of them goes on their own journey to find allies in preparation for the invasion. They each have character driven episodes like _Zuko Alone_ and then they all meet up the day before the invasion.


----------



## Friday (Aug 21, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When I watched the series, and reached the end of the second season, I was hoping that the main characters would be separated, and thus need to spend the first several episodes of the third season each having their own adventures and seeking to regroup. I noticed that the main heroes were together in almost every episode of the series, so I think that it would have been an interesting new idea for the series. What does everyone else believe? Would that have been an interesting idea, or would it not have worked?



Under those circumstances, it would be really hard to find a reason to separate.. It wasn't like they were bitter towards each other at the end of season 2 (Katara and Toph).. To let them split.. maybe even after Aang woke up? That's probably a bit difficult since they'd be wasting time not training Aang and the Ozai fight would've been more of an asspull.. Remember, The Day of Black Sun was really close to the time when Aang woke up.

They were preparing for that before anything. And like it was said above me, they did separate at some point in the last episodes, no matter if it was really short.


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 21, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When I watched the series, and reached the end of the second season, I was hoping that the main characters would be separated, and thus need to spend the first several episodes of the third season each having their own adventures and seeking to regroup. I noticed that the main heroes were together in almost every episode of the series, so I think that it would have been an interesting new idea for the series. What does everyone else believe? Would that have been an interesting idea, or would it not have worked?





They separated several times before that. By choice and not for long, though. It didn't work out too well each time.

The Gaang probably had some issues with splitting up since Aang got shot by lighting. By that point they were a tight-knit group and they would do anything to stay together. Especially Katara.

That said, it might have been interesting to spend several episodes on an arc where they have to look for each other. Eventually they have to get back to the plot, so that couldn't take too long.


----------



## Wan (Aug 21, 2011)

One time they split up voluntarily was in "The Guru".  It did not end well.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 21, 2011)

I suppose it would have given Toph something to do, but splitting them up wouldn't have made much sense, considering that they had to remain together to care for Aang. And since the purpose of Book 3 was always going to be displaying the Fire Nation, cleaving the group wouldn't have made much sense.


----------



## Rukia (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm sure I can find it by searching through the thread... but I think I will ask any way.  When does this new season start?


----------



## Stunna (Aug 21, 2011)

I believe it's Summer 2012.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 21, 2011)

Oman said:


> One time they split up voluntarily was in "The Guru".  It did not end well.



Yes, I know that, and I know that they did, in fact, separate at several other points throughput the series, but I was hoping for a drastic, long-term separation, such as what happened to the Strawhat Crew in _One Piece._ Perhaps there shall be such a separation in the new series?


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Aug 21, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I believe it's Summer 2012.



One year from now?


----------



## Wan (Aug 21, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I know that, and I know that they did, in fact, separate at several other points throughput the series, but I was hoping for a drastic, long-term separation, such as what happened to the Strawhat Crew in _One Piece._ Perhaps there shall be such a separation in the new series?



I doubt it.  The series (at this point) will only be composed of 26 episodes, as opposed to One Piece's hundreds of chapters and episodes.  If the Korrew is split up for a longer period than the gAang ever was, than they might as well not be a team at all.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 21, 2011)

Oman said:


> I doubt it.  The series (at this point) will only be composed of 26 episodes, as opposed to One Piece's hundreds of chapters and episodes.  If the Korrew is split up for a longer period than the gAang ever was, than they might as well not be a team at all.



Yes, that does make sense, but I still am hoping that not the entire series shall be set in the Republic City, as it would be good to learn how each of the nations has developed in the seventy years since the end of the war.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 21, 2011)

Oman said:


> I doubt it.  The series (at this point) will only *be composed of 26 episodes*, as opposed to One Piece's hundreds of chapters and episodes.  If the Korrew is split up for a longer period than the gAang ever was, than they might as well not be a team at all.


Oh man. 

I heard they are thinking about creating mini episodes dealing with different enemies and problems...if the show does well.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 21, 2011)

Who said that? Link please.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 21, 2011)

I read it on Avatar wikia. I'll get the link now 

*edits in a sec*

EDIT:


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 21, 2011)

There's a mention of shorter arcs which means that the initial 12 episodes will deal with Amon and the second season will deal with a different problem. Mini-episodes are something different entirely.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 21, 2011)

Well, that's sorta what I meant. Other episodes. And hmm, I thought it meant after the original 26 episodes.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 21, 2011)

So Korra's coming out in the summer of next year, huh? Good to know.


----------



## Shade (Aug 22, 2011)

I feel like there are a few episodes in Book 3 that could've been cut out for potentially better episodes. Actually, out of the first 9, only the Awakening, Sokka's Master and the Avatar and the Firelord were necessary and of Book 2 quality. We could have had episodes about Iroh's journey into the spirit world, about Zuko's mother's whereabouts, about how Iroh broke out and the congregation of the White Lotus. It would even have been nice to have had an episode about the history of spirit bending. 

More than anything though, Book 3 lacked the strong central narrative of Book 2, especially in the first half, and instead opted for random Gaang adventures in the Fire Nation that ended up having little bearing on the last half of the season. I had qualms about the finale as well, like spirit bending, rocktivation of the Avatar state and Ozai's defeat ending the war, but all of that's been discussed at great lengths so I'll leave it be.


----------



## Wang Fire (Aug 22, 2011)

Yeah, that rock was very conveniently placed.

Very conveniently? Sounds right and wrong at the same time.


----------



## Wan (Aug 22, 2011)

Shade said:


> I feel like there are a few episodes in Book 3 that could've been cut out for potentially better episodes. Actually, out of the first 9, only the Awakening, Sokka's Master and the Avatar and the Firelord were necessary and of Book 2 quality. We could have had episodes about Iroh's journey into the spirit world, about Zuko's mother's whereabouts, about how Iroh broke out and the congregation of the White Lotus. It would even have been nice to have had an episode about the history of spirit bending.



Tsk tsk.

The only episodes, IMO, that were not up to Book 2 quality were "The Painted Lady" and "The Beach".  The only ones that weren't integral somehow to continuity were "The Painted Lady" and "The Runaway" (and the latter still had continuity bits used later on).  There are numerous things the writers could have done, they just chose not to.  It's not like they forgot past continuity.  They dealt with Roku's background, the Order of the White Lotus, Iroh's capture, the elimination of the Southern Water Tribe waterbenders, etc.

Really the only episode that deserved to be dropped from the season entirely was The Painted Lady.  But each season had an ep like that (Book 1 had "The Great Divide", Book 2 had "Avatar Day")


> More than anything though, Book 3 lacked the strong central narrative of Book 2, especially in the first half, and instead opted for random Gaang adventures in the Fire Nation that ended up having little bearing on the last half of the season. I had qualms about the finale as well, like spirit bending, rocktivation of the Avatar state and Ozai's defeat ending the war, but all of that's been discussed at great lengths so I'll leave it be.



Book 2 didn't have a strong central narrative to its first half either.  If anything Book 3 had a stronger central narrative in its first half because the gAang knew exactly what they were going to do at the midway point.  In Book 2 by the midway point they were just playing it by ear.


----------



## The Imp (Aug 22, 2011)

While _The Beach_ was mostly light-hearted fluff, that camp fire scene was pretty important for Zuko's character development.

Also most of your suggestions for things they could have shown wouldn't make the plot any tighter. As much as I love Iroh, the show is centered around the Gaang and Zuko not him. There's no reason to show his journey to the spirit world. What we saw of his break out and the gathering of the White Lotus is enough. Anything extra would be unnecessary. 

Zuko meeting his mom is a valid suggestion as is the spirit bending stuff. Although I wouldn't want an entire episode to focus solely on spirit bending like we got with bloodbending. It should be a more gradual unveiling like we got with lightning.


----------



## Shade (Aug 22, 2011)

Oman said:


> Tsk tsk.
> 
> The only episodes, IMO, that were not up to Book 2 quality were "The Painted Lady" and "The Beach".  The only ones that weren't integral somehow to continuity were "The Painted Lady" and "The Runaway" (and the latter still had continuity bits used later on).  There are numerous things the writers could have done, they just chose not to.  It's not like they forgot past continuity.  They dealt with Roku's background, the Order of the White Lotus, Iroh's capture, the elimination of the Southern Water Tribe waterbenders, etc.
> 
> Really the only episode that deserved to be dropped from the season entirely was The Painted Lady.  But each season had an ep like that (Book 1 had "The Great Divide", Book 2 had "Avatar Day")



What did the Gaang's story in the Headband accomplish? Bloodbending was an entirely unnecessary use of waterbending and seeing as Katara only used it once on a thug so The Puppetmaster wasn't all that necessary either. Did we really need an entire episode dedicated to Aang's dreams? I can't stay I didn't enjoy most of these episodes, I just think they could've been left out for better stories I know the writers are capable of.


> *Book 2 didn't have a strong central narrative to its first half either. * If anything Book 3 had a stronger central narrative in its first half because the gAang knew exactly what they were going to do at the midway point.  In Book 2 by the midway point they were just playing it by ear.



The only episodes without much relevance were the Swamp and Avatar Day and even those are arguable. Every episode other than those has either serious character introduction/development or is of vital importance to Aang's mission.


			
				The Imp said:
			
		

> Also most of your suggestions for things they could have shown wouldn't make the plot any tighter. As much as I love Iroh, the show is centered around the Gaang and Zuko not him. There's no reason to show his journey to the spirit world. What we saw of his break out and the gathering of the White Lotus is enough. Anything extra would be unnecessary.



Iroh is a very important character and I think his journey to the spirit world could have fit into the continuity if it's related to why he joined the White Lotus afterwards. Even if it didn't fit into the continuity of the season, I think the episode could easily replace a handful of episodes from the first half of Book 3 and it would only improve the quality of the season.


----------



## Darth (Aug 22, 2011)

New Korra news! Pretty excited about it! 

areia's remix


----------



## Burke (Aug 22, 2011)

Darth said:


> New Korra news! Pretty excited about it!
> 
> areia's remix



why the fuck would you just randomly do that

EDIT: anyways, its official, im getting a name change.


----------



## Shade (Aug 22, 2011)

I just wanted to share this great fan art:


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 22, 2011)

Iroh's journey into the spirit world and the foreshadowing of Spiritbending would have made a solid 20 minute episode.


----------



## Friday (Aug 22, 2011)

What are the odds of someone touching on Bloodbending again? (this probably has been discussed before)

Here's saying that there's a good good chance Katara never taught it to anyone else, so that Hama possibly escaped and found another water bender to teach, or that someone else eventually learned it by experimenting.





^really wish I could find a version of this without the annoying hashtag. hi5 to anyone who can find it for me


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 22, 2011)

Of course Book 2 had a central narrative at first: find an Earthbending teacher. Just like the first half of Book 3 also had a clear narrative: assimilate into the Fire Nation.

Book 2 was just better executed.


----------



## Wan (Aug 22, 2011)

Shade said:


> What did the Gaang's story in the Headband accomplish? Bloodbending was an entirely unnecessary use of waterbending and seeing as Katara only used it once on a thug so The Puppetmaster wasn't all that necessary either. Did we really need an entire episode dedicated to Aang's dreams? I can't stay I didn't enjoy most of these episodes, I just think they could've been left out for better stories I know the writers are capable of.



"The Headband" showed the gAang infiltrating the Fire Nation, advanced Aang and Katara's relationship, and showed Zuko hiring Combustion Man.

"The Puppetmaster" developed Katara's character, and the use of bloodbending was a wordless way to demonstrate just how bitchy emo upset she was in "The Southern Raiders".

"Nightmares and Daydreams" showed the gAang arriving at the rendezvous point, Sokka building Appa's armor, and Zuko finally getting the determination to join the gAang (in a war meeting that would be recalled in the finale).



> The only episodes without much relevance were the Swamp and Avatar Day and even those are arguable. Every episode other than those has either serious character introduction/development or is of vital importance to Aang's mission.



The same could be said of much of Book 3's beginning.


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 22, 2011)

The only thing I would cut from season 2 would be _The Swamp_. Even though it has elements that relate to continuity (Aang's vision of Toph and the swamp people), I think the series could have done without those two elements, and the rest of the episode doesn't really do much for me. I think _Avatar Day_ is admittedly one of the weakest episodes, but the fact that it includes Zuko and Iroh splitting up saves it for me. The rest of season 2 is really consistent and effective. 

As for season 3 -- I'd get rid of _The Painted Lady_. I'm also iffy on _The Runaway_...the rest is fine, in my opinion. (I'm torn in regard to _The Headband_, but it gives us a peek into the Fire Nation society and there are some decent Zuko scenes, so it's okay.)


----------



## masterriku (Aug 22, 2011)

Well in the swamp Aang uses the Tree to find Appa in the same manner the Guru uses to help Appa find Aang later on.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 22, 2011)

The Swamp is one of the best episodes of that run. It's one of the best characterization episodes in the whole series.


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 22, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> The Swamp is one of the best episodes of that run. It's one of the best characterization episodes in the whole series.





Explain yo self, Jovey. Maybe I owe the episode a rewatch, but it felt quite forgettable to me.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 22, 2011)

Jove's trolling. I'm disappointed.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 22, 2011)

If you think I'm trolling, your taste level needs rewiring.




> *24.*
> 
> *The Swamp*
> 
> If the designation of chapters as “underrated” is already a theme of this post, allow me to subvert it by stating that this chapter is almost certainly overrated by ranking, and I acknowledge that fully. But the Swamp is one of the more spiritual and insular chapters of the show, and I always favor those. I especially favor the shows in which Aang or another character has visions, especially ethereal ones. And I liked the kinds of images they had; Katara and Sokka had mournful, bittersweet images reflecting their loss and guilr, while Aang had an enigmatic one, which serves as our first introduction to Toph, whom I consider the show’s most popular character. The Swamp is also an excellent example of the dichotomy of action found within Avatar: long stretches of measured, cerebral pacing, followed by a gigantic action sequence. And Katara/Aang v. Swamp Monster is one of the more exciting and lengthy battles in the show. And seeing water benders in the Earth Kingdom was pretty cool, and provided for one of the more amusing b-stories in the show.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 22, 2011)

Kudos for pulling an elaborate troll. I'm impressed.


----------



## Burke (Aug 22, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> If you think I'm trolling, your taste level needs rewiring.



24th place, im sure the swamp feels loved 



LegendaryBeauty said:


> Kudos for pulling an elaborate troll. I'm impressed.



stop trying


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 22, 2011)

Implying I'm trying at all.


----------



## Burke (Aug 22, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Implying I'm trying at all.





N??ps said:


> stop trying



**


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 22, 2011)

Quoting yourself doesn't change anything, you know.


----------



## Darth (Aug 22, 2011)

LB be trollin..

They hatin...


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 22, 2011)

Me? Trolling?  Why, I've never--!!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 22, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Kudos for pulling an elaborate troll. I'm impressed.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 22, 2011)




----------



## Burke (Aug 22, 2011)

How long to name change requests usually take damn it


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 23, 2011)

*Avatar: The Last Airbender Volume 1—The Promise Part 1 TPB
The wait is over! Ever since the conclusion of Avatar: The Last Airbender, its millions of fans have been hungry for more--and it's finally here!*

This series of digests rejoins Aang and friends for exciting new adventures, beginning with a faceoff against the Fire Nation that threatens to throw the world into another war, testing all of Aang's powers and ingenuity!

* The continuation of Airbender and the link to its upcoming sequel, Legend of Korra!

* Written by Gene Yang, author of the National Book Award-nominated American Born Chinese. 



And now for some well thought out comments by the more intelligent section of our community regarding this news. - 


> I might read this, but I'm not planning on watching the Korra series. Personally, Kataang sickens me and there's just no nice way for me to talk about it. Period. Sorry, I'm not usually so unpleasant, that topic just puts a terribly bitterly acidic taste in my mouth. Like bile. Ugh. Once again, my apologies for being a "hater". Lol


----------



## Friday (Aug 23, 2011)

80 pages  I'll definitely read it. Aang having trouble settling the Fire Nation to follow him after defeating Ozai was something that a lot of people questioned, so it's nice that the authors heard them. 

The whole shipping thing is pretty silly.. There's more depth to the series than that.


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 23, 2011)

> *Avatar: The Last Airbender Volume 1?The Promise Part 1 TPB
> The wait is over! Ever since the conclusion of Avatar: The Last Airbender, its millions of fans have been hungry for more--and it's finally here!*
> 
> This series of digests rejoins Aang and friends for exciting new adventures, beginning with a faceoff against the Fire Nation that threatens to throw the world into another war, testing all of Aang's powers and ingenuity!
> ...





I would love to read it.



> I might read this, but I'm not planning on watching the Korra series. Personally, Kataang sickens me and there's just no nice way for me to talk about it. Period. Sorry, I'm not usually so unpleasant, that topic just puts a terribly bitterly acidic taste in my mouth. Like bile. Ugh. Once again, my apologies for being a "hater". Lol



Welp, 

Time to purge the fandom again


----------



## Burke (Aug 23, 2011)

I think the preorder bar exploded from Jove pressing it so many times.

Im telling you man, that wont make it come any faster.


----------



## Wan (Aug 23, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> *Avatar: The Last Airbender Volume 1?The Promise Part 1 TPB
> The wait is over! Ever since the conclusion of Avatar: The Last Airbender, its millions of fans have been hungry for more--and it's finally here!*
> 
> This series of digests rejoins Aang and friends for exciting new adventures, beginning with a faceoff against the Fire Nation that threatens to throw the world into another war, testing all of Aang's powers and ingenuity!
> ...



So everything _wasn't_ peachy-keen "love and peace" after the war.  Good to know, in an oddly realistic but sadistic way.  Can't wait!   Though I must say, the art on that cover seems odd.  Different clothes and hair for the characters at the end of book 3.  Maybe this is a couple years later?

As for the comment, fandumb is dumb.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Aug 23, 2011)

Hardcore Zutarans aren't fans of the show, there fans of their own self insert head-fiction.  So if they're not going to be part of the Korra fandom, goof riddance.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 23, 2011)

Doesn't matter to me, I'm still reading it!!


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 23, 2011)

So, if I read it right, it's a four part comic series.  At 80 pages a piece it should keep us busy for a while.

^_^



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Hardcore Zutarans aren't fans of the show, there fans of their own self insert head-fiction.  So if they're not going to be part of the Korra fandom, goof riddance.



I just don't get why people are so serious about fictional relationships between equally fictional characters. Shipping can be fun, I can see that, but don't let it stop you from enjoying the show when the ship you were rooting for was sunk by a Canon Torpedo.

Shipping for shits 'n giggles is ok in my book. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



For the record, I now ship Mako's scarf / Paboo

Imagine the cuteness. pek


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 23, 2011)

Sorry about ruining such good news with idiocy like that.
It made me do one of those long exhales with my eyes closed and I just had to share the pain with someone. Then again it came from the same page of someone who would willingly turn down money from someone who commissions a piece featuring Aang and Katara romantically linked. Stupid attracts stupid, right?

Anyway, Gene Yang speaks about writing the new comics.




> One of the best things about this gig (and there are many, many good things) is that I get to work closely with Mike DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko, the creators of Avatar: The Last Airbender.  I e-mail them, like, all the time, and they totally e-mail me back.  It’s awesome.


----------



## Wan (Aug 24, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Hardcore Zutarans aren't fans of the show, there fans of their own self insert head-fiction.  So if they're not going to be part of the Korra fandom, goof riddance.



Absolutely.  If an integral part of the show disgusts you so much that you won't watch anything even linked to it, you're not a fan.  You're a hater.



Superstarseven said:


> Sorry about ruining such good news with idiocy like that.
> It made me do one of those long exhales with my eyes closed and I just had to share the pain with someone. Then again it came from the same page of someone who would willingly turn down money from someone who commissions a piece featuring Aang and Katara romantically linked. Stupid attracts stupid, right?
> 
> Anyway, Gene Yang speaks about writing the new comics.



What is this thread you speak of?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 24, 2011)

80 pages? 

I wish I could buy it. But I have so many things to get first. Looks like I have to suffer. 



> I might read this, but I'm not planning on watching the Korra series. Personally, Kataang sickens me and there's just no nice way for me to talk about it. Period. Sorry, I'm not usually so unpleasant, that topic just puts a terribly bitterly acidic taste in my mouth. Like bile. Ugh. Once again, my apologies for being a "hater". Lol


----------



## Jena (Aug 24, 2011)

When I get my next paycheck, that Avatar book shall be mine! 

....well, it shall me mine in January, anyway. I'll just add it to the list of things I'm waiting for.



> I might read this, but I'm not planning on watching the Korra series. Personally, Kataang sickens me and there's just no nice way for me to talk about it. Period. Sorry, I'm not usually so unpleasant, that topic just puts a terribly bitterly acidic taste in my mouth. Like bile. Ugh. Once again, my apologies for being a "hater". Lol


Because the main appeal of Avatar is the pairings, amright?


----------



## Quaero (Aug 24, 2011)

Jena said:


> Because the main appeal of Avatar is the pairings, amright?



Crack parings as a matter of fact.


----------



## Noah (Aug 24, 2011)

The best part for me isn't even the fuck-stupid attitude of this particular Zutarian. It's the use of quotes for "hater". That's exactly what you are. If you're ignoring canon material because it didn't end the way you liked, then you are simply hating on it. You are, in fact, a hater.

Shipping ruins everything. Every character in anything from now on should just be completely androgynous and asexual.

Anyway, the comic. Want now.


----------



## Jena (Aug 24, 2011)

Noah said:


> The best part for me isn't even the fuck-stupid attitude of this particular Zutarian. It's the use of quotes for "hater". That's exactly what you are. If you're ignoring canon material because it didn't end the way you liked, then you are simply hating on it. You are, in fact, a hater.
> 
> Shipping ruins everything. Every character in anything from now on should just be completely androgynous and asexual.
> 
> Anyway, the comic. Want now.



I just...I don't get it, honestly.

I'll admit that I get into pairings, but if my pairing doesn't happen I don't go all apeshit and start spewing stuff "THIS ENTIRE SERIES SUCKS!!" _just_ because the pairing I wanted didn't happen. Get over yourself.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 24, 2011)

Jena said:


> I just...I don't get it, honestly.
> 
> I'll admit that I get into pairings, but if my pairing doesn't happen I don't go all apeshit and start spewing stuff "THIS ENTIRE SERIES SUCKS!!" _just_ because the pairing I wanted didn't happen. Get over yourself.



I don't get it either. 

I don't let it get to me at all...okay okay, maybe just a _pinch_ for Darker than BLACK but eh, I could careless either way. Its the show that makes it, not the pairing. 

I just can't believe someone would hate Avatar because of _a pairing_...its just not right.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 24, 2011)

Ah, the infamous ATLA shipping wars. They're even more intense than Harry Potter and Naruto.


----------



## Friday (Aug 24, 2011)

I ship AppaxAang


----------



## Shade (Aug 24, 2011)

Oman said:


> "The Headband" showed the gAang infiltrating the Fire Nation, advanced Aang and Katara's relationship, and showed Zuko hiring Combustion Man. "The Puppetmaster" developed Katara's character, and the use of bloodbending was a wordless way to demonstrate just how bitchy emo upset she was in "The Southern Raiders".



Aang could have infiltrated the Fire Nation in a more interesting way than dancing. For example, they could've gone to a more notable Fire Nation city and gotten a more indepth view of the war from their point-of-view. Zuko's story was separate and I had no problem with the progression of his narrative throughout Book 3; in fact, it was probably the best part of Book 3's first half. 

I'll maintain that bloodbending was an unnecessary addition to the show's mythos. It really doesn't folow that generations of waterbending masters and Avatars never realized that blood is bendable, but a random waterbender from the southern tribe did. Waterbenders would have used any means to fight back against the Fire Nation so one can assume they would've used it against Firebenders at some point in the war  had they known it. In regards to the bending giving release to Katara's darker emotions, I felt it didn't really add much to the scene; a sharp whip of water stopped at his neck would've had the same effect.



> "Nightmares and Daydreams" showed the gAang arriving at the rendezvous point, Sokka building Appa's armor, and Zuko finally getting the determination to join the gAang (in a war meeting that would be recalled in the finale).



Those are pretty minor accomplishments for an episode that also could have been present in a more substantial episode. 



> The same could be said of much of Book 3's beginning.



Not really, The Avatar State told us a lot about what essentially beat the Fire Lord, introduced Azula and defined her relationship with Zuko. The Cave of Two Lovers had serious Katara/Aang development and told us about the origin of earthbending. Return to Omashu I shoudn't need to say anything about. The Swamp and Avatar Day I'll agree were lesser than the rest, of the same ranking as many of Book 3's first half eps. The Blind Bandit introduced Toph in a spectacular way. Zuko Alone will be a favourite of yours if you're a fan of the show. The Chase was an important character development episode and the first time we saw Zuko side with the Gaang. Bitter Work, while a bit weak on the plot side, taught us more about bending principles and The Library led to the finding Appa subplot and gave us a crucial bit of information about the Fire Nation's weakness. 

Most, if not all, of these episodes were part the narrative that followed through in the second half of the season, if not in Book 3. More imporantly though, they were just better written stories than a lot of what we were given in _Fire_.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 24, 2011)

> Most, if not all, of these episodes were part the narrative that followed through in the second half of the season, if not in Book 3. More imporantly though, _they were just better written stories than a lot of what we were given in Fire. _


As much as I love Fire, and I love Fire, I would have to agree with this point and not because of what you may think either, I promise. 

**



Friday said:


> I ship AppaxAang



Why not AppaxMomo?


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 24, 2011)

Woulda, coulda, shoulda...enough harping on this. You got out of it what what you got out of it. On to other things.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 24, 2011)

Noah said:


> Shipping ruins everything. Every character in anything from now on should just be completely androgynous and asexual.



Why do you say that? Some characters in some works of fiction have greater depth because of their sexuality or romantic feelings. Such characters seem to be more human, in my mind.

As for that comic, it does look very awesome, but I doubt that I shall purchase it, both because I do not have a great amount of money currently, and because I am not that hardcore of a fan of this series.

I was wondering something: when the heroes were in Ba Sing Se, why did only Katara and Toph disguise themselves as noble ladies, while Aang and Sokka were forced to disguise themselves as servants? Were Katara and Tophs better at behaving like nobles, or was there some other reason?


----------



## The Imp (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah that's the reason. They flat out stated it in the show.


----------



## Noah (Aug 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why do you say that? Some characters in some works of fiction have greater depth because of their sexuality or romantic feelings. Such characters seem to be more human, in my mind.



The moment I wrote that line, I knew you were going to comment on it. Then I stopped for a second, considered deleting it, and then decided to keep it on the off chance that you'd glaze over it somehow. Congratulations, everything I post is now based on whether or not I think you'll respond to it and how that can be avoided. 

If you read something (especially in this thread or the BH), and it doesn't logically make sense to you, assume it's sarcasm. It most likely is.

Jesus, you really are like a real life Sheldon.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Why not AppaxMomo?



Appa x Momo? 

I thought that it'd be Aang, Appa and Momo 4eva, but then again, what with Aang discovering that different species of Sky Bison, Appa may just have gotten some...

Before this though, I dabbled in Appa x Nyla.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 24, 2011)

Well Mike and Bryan did state that fans should look out for an Appa and Momo pairing rather than Zuko and Katara--pretty much outright saying that Zutara was not going to happen. But hey, that's didn't stop anyone. Amirite?


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 24, 2011)

This is one of those very rare series' where I just felt that all the couples clicked and felt right rather than forced. Aang/Katara, Zuko/Mai, Sokka/Suki. The personality mixes just seem to work very well in regard to a harmonious relationship and balancing one another out.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 24, 2011)

Aang x Katara was obvious from the start; I just found them boring in the end. Zuko and Mai...hmm. I thought it was kind of out of left field. I mean, Zuko was gone from the Fire Nation for quite a while. Sure, Mai had a crush on  him, but that was when they were children. While Zuko saved her hair from going on fire thanks to the apple that Azula had put on Mai's head, I didn't see any indication that he felt the same way. He was just being himself. In Book 3, when Mai kisses Zuko on the ship, I thought "Ok...when did this happen?" . It was more minion shipping than anything else.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 24, 2011)

Well obviously you missed the comic in between explaining how they hooked up in the Ba Sing Se.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh, that. No, I didn't read it. I wasn't sure if it was part of canon.


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 24, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Oh, that. No, I didn't read it. I wasn't sure if it was part of canon.



To be honest, I found them quite bland. But it filled the gaps between the books of Earth and Fire. It had some gems like the dai li providing the catering and entertainment for Zuko and Mai's date.

Azula got them whipped.



			
				DemonDragonJ said:
			
		

> I was wondering something: when the heroes were in Ba Sing Se, why did only Katara and Toph disguise themselves as noble ladies, while Aang and Sokka were forced to disguise themselves as servants? Were Katara and Tophs better at behaving like nobles, or was there some other reason?



They wanted an audience with the Earth King. They thought they could  talk with him at the party for Bosco. They had no invitations and would have to sneak in.

Toph said it herself;[On blending in with a society crowd] 
"Katara might be able to pull it off, but you two would be luck to pass as busboys." 

And that's what they did.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 24, 2011)

I like Zuko and Mai together, they fit well. 



Superstarseven said:


> Well Mike and Bryan did state that fans should look out for an Appa and Momo pairing rather than Zuko and Katara--pretty much outright saying that Zutara was not going to happen. But hey, that's didn't stop anyone. Amirite?



They actually said that?


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I like Zuko and Mai together, they fit well. :





> Zuko: "You're so beautiful when you hate the world."
> Mai: "I don't hate you."
> Zuko: "I don't hate you, too."



So cheesy, but it was kinda sweet.



> They actually said that?





Cue *evidence* for a Momo/Appa ship popping up.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 24, 2011)

If there were new flying lemurs like Momo like the different breed of Sky Bison, Momo probably has some little ones of his own.


----------



## Burke (Aug 24, 2011)

or some little decendants, as it were.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 24, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> If there were new flying lemurs like Momo like the different breed of Sky Bison, Momo probably has some little ones of his own.



Did you miss the news and character design that was presented during Comic-Con of the new breed of Flying Lemur that's set to appear during Season 2 of Korra?


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 24, 2011)

I guess the creators didn't have the heart to end Appa's species or Momo's. Any other show probably would have just killed them off without any hope.

Wait a second...

If Momo's species was extinct or near extinction,  how did the Swamp people know of them?


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 24, 2011)

Hill billies are surprisingly knowledgeable.

I was watching Avatar on TV yesterday, and I was just thinking: why does Katara see fit to tell everyone they're with the Avatar and where they're going and what not? Wouldn't it be super easy for the Fire Nation to track them down, since Katara's just offering up the information with no provocation to everyone they meet? Kinda seemed stupid to me.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 24, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Did you miss the news and character design that was presented during Comic-Con of the new breed of Flying Lemur that's set to appear during Season 2 of Korra?



I only hear bits and pieces, as I don't attend Comic-Con like other cons. And Season 2? I thought there were only going to be 26 episodes.


----------



## masamune1 (Aug 24, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> I only hear bits and pieces, as I don't attend Comic-Con like other cons. And Season 2? I thought there were only going to be 26 episodes.



Sounds like you've missed quite a bit.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 24, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Hill billies are surprisingly knowledgeable.



How did they come about seeing an extinct animal? Or if its extinct, how did they find out what it looked like? Did they travel out of their swamp, which I think is unlikely, to check these things...?


----------



## The Imp (Aug 24, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> I was watching Avatar on TV yesterday, and I was just thinking: why does Katara see fit to tell everyone they're with the Avatar and where they're going and what not? Wouldn't it be super easy for the Fire Nation to track them down, since Katara's just offering up the information with no provocation to everyone they meet? Kinda seemed stupid to me.



So they get hospitality in the Earth Kingdom. The Avatar is revered there because he's their last hope for defeating the Fire Nation. People will treat him well. Just look at Ba Sing Se. He told them he was the avatar and he automatically got a house in the upper level. He'd be stuck in the bottom tier with all of the refugees if he had tried to hide his identity.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Aug 24, 2011)

The Imp said:


> So they get hospitality in the Earth Kingdom. The Avatar is revered there because he's their last hope for defeating the Fire Nation. People will treat him well. Just look at Ba Sing Se. He told them he was the avatar and he automatically got a house in the upper level. He'd be stuck in the bottom tier with all of the refugees if he had tried to hide his identity.



I'd understand if it was in the great cities like Omashu or Ba Sing Se themselves, but Katara was telling pretty much everyone, even when they weren't near those places. Kinda seemed foolish to me, especially since Katara doesn't know who the hell these people coudl be, but you do have a point.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 24, 2011)

Because Katara is an attention junkie? 

I thought she said it so they could pass places, get out of un-needed fights and sometimes even free food or places to sleep


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 24, 2011)

You can't underestimate how dangerous Katara was the entire series. Inadvertent or active, no one placed the group in more danger. Not Zhao. Not even Azula. No one can compare to Katara.


----------



## Ippy (Aug 24, 2011)

Jove, your words seem to have truth to them.  I always had this nagging feeling that she was trouble (for the Gaang).

Could you explain, in detail, why you feel the way you do?  I forget the individual instances.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 24, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Sounds like you've missed quite a bit.



Tell me about it. I had a cousin who went to Comic-Con, the panel whore, and she didn't even go to the Korra panel. She's press, so I guess she was covering other shows, but still. I can't help but feel resentful. 

As for Katara, LegendaryBeauty, I always thought that Katara was making it way too obvious for the gAang to be caught by other unsavory characters. Ms. Jove is right. Katara was far more dangerous than Azula.


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 24, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> You can't underestimate how dangerous Katara was the entire series. Inadvertent or active, no one placed the group in more danger. Not Zhao. Not even Azula. No one can compare to Katara.



Its true, its true!


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 25, 2011)

I was just participating in this battle thread here:

Aang & Azula vs Edward & Al


And I noticed the battlefield where Aang vs Ozai was like the perfect environment for Aang to fight him. Its has countless of large earth structures, a waterfall and a lake/river leading to the sea.

Could Aang have defeated Ozai if he had not lost his nerve and without the avatar state...!?

He fell into the lake where Ozai was chasing him...so instead of running onto shore he could have just submerged himself in the lake and waterbended the lake on top of OZai as he skimmed the water surface...


----------



## ElementX (Aug 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> I was just participating in this battle thread here:
> 
> Aang & Azula vs Edward & Al
> 
> ...



The intense heat from Ozai's barrage of attacks caused the lake to boil, and since Aang had not mastered water temp manipulation yet, he could not dive into the water without cooking himself.



Or maybe he just didn't think about it...


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 25, 2011)

ElementX said:


> Or maybe he just didn't think about it...



Yeah by that moment Aang had lost his game. But when theyre both skimming across the water if had just turned around and put a wall of water in front of Ozai - it most certainly would have unbalanced him at least and with nothing but water beneath him would have fallen into the lake where could have smothered his firebending limbs.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm lolling that this dropped so much in price


----------



## Wan (Aug 25, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Oh, that. No, I didn't read it. I wasn't sure if it was part of canon.



It's canon, and it helps.  I admit though, even with that I wasn't too keen on Maiko.  After "The Boiling Rock" it got my full support though.  Kind of late in the game, but oh well.



Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah by that moment Aang had lost his game. But when theyre both skimming across the water if had just turned around and put a wall of water in front of Ozai - it most certainly would have unbalanced him at least and with nothing but water beneath him would have fallen into the lake where could have smothered his firebending limbs.



Or Ozai just angles up to avoid the water.  If Aang stayed in the water, Ozai could have jet boosted up to one of the rock pillars and torched the whole lake.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> Or Ozai just angles up to avoid the water.  If Aang stayed in the water, Ozai could have jet boosted up to one of the rock pillars and torched the whole lake.



He definitely had better chances standing his ground right there - with a lake to back him up than hide in an earth ball letting Ozai roast him at leisure.


----------



## Wan (Aug 26, 2011)

The "lake" was so shallow that it didn't even reach Aang's waist.  It would have evaporated at the first sustained blast from Ozai.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Aug 26, 2011)

Aang could match Ozai in regular firebending attacks, the lake was also linked to a waterfall. 

He cancels out direct fire attacks from Ozai and tosses waves from the waterfall or spiral water tentacles to whiplash Ozai's rocket feet.


----------



## Wan (Aug 26, 2011)

Aang, at least at that point, could not match Ozai's firebending attacks.  Ozai's last couple regular firebending attacks overwhelmed Aang's attempts to defend.  Ozai apparently had an advantage over Aang with regards to stamina.


----------



## Friday (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm a little happier that these set of characters will at least be a bit older than the old group. Bolin, Mako, and Korra all look to be at Zuko's age.. just for the sake of how age is typically viewed, despite this being a cartoon.


----------



## Burke (Aug 26, 2011)

yeah ive always been a long standing "hater"  of little kids saving the world or doing other similar tassssks


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 26, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> yeah ive always been a long standing "hater"  of little kids saving the world or doing other similar tassssks



Hmm, sixteen or seventeen is still rather young, don't you think?


----------



## Gunners (Aug 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> I was just participating in this battle thread here:
> 
> Aang & Azula vs Edward & Al
> 
> ...


If his intention was to merk Ozai, he'd have killed him without having to go in the Avatar state.

He made the most of his environment and because of the fight was equal, with Aang having the opportunity to kill Ozai before it became a seesaw battle.


----------



## Wan (Aug 26, 2011)

The only opportunity Aang had to kill Ozai was when he redirected Ozai's own lightning.


----------



## Glued (Aug 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> I was just participating in this battle thread here:
> 
> Aang & Azula vs Edward & Al
> 
> ...



Why is Avatar in the anime battledome?


----------



## Burke (Aug 26, 2011)

How do you like the new name? 

Ill keep this set for a while so people will know its me


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 26, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Hmm, sixteen or seventeen is still rather young, don't you think?



Not as young as 12-13, not that I had a problem with it before of course xD


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 26, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Its true, its true!



Doesn't mean that's not balanced out by her natural domination of Azula. 


So, Ippy wanted some examples of Katara's boneheaded decisions. We talked about this on MSN, but allow me to make another top 5:


*Top 5 Idiotic Ways Katara Blatantly Tried to Get Everyone Killed*


*5. Imprisoned*

---- When she not only refused to let Haru go, but went out of her way to bring Aang out into the open to save him.


*4. The Chase*


---- Oh wait, no. That was _Toph's_ fault. Never mind.

*4. Avatar Day*

---- Oh hey, this enormous crowd of rowdy people are burning Avatars in effigy, including a 50-foot Aang. Why not just go make a big fucking scene and waterbend a huge pool of water to put the fires out? Make sure you draw the angry crowd's attention to Aang in the process, you moron!


*3. Jet*


---- Katara's primitive judgement of people, based on the most basic human desires, nearly causes legitimate tragedy: Aang glider was almost lost forever. This is one of the first, and best, instance where Katara refuses to acknowledge Sokka's growth, completely dismissing his totally accurate and well-founded assessment of Jet and Jet's Freedom Fighters.

*2. The Waterbending Scroll*

---- When the main concern is getting to the Northern Water Tribe safely, Katara's petty jealousy over Aang's growth in Waterbending leads her to stealing from goddamn pirates, who of course do everything they can to get revenge. Of course, all the ruckus attracts attention, attention that is totally unnecessary.

*1. The Painted Lady*

---- For no substantial reason, Katara decides that healing some random, hopelessly diseased Fire Nation girl is worth more than other things, such as discretion, common sense, and Aang's safety. Mere episodes after berating everyone for _just that same thing_, she places the entire group in serious danger just to satisfy her own selfish, stubborn lust for helper-glory.



And yet...


What would the show be without her?


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 27, 2011)

This  from Dark Horse reveals just teensy bit about the new comics.



> Taking place one year after the events of the last season, these graphic novels begin a new adventure for Aang and his friends that will change their lives and change their world.
> 
> With Gurihiru, Gene Luen Yang, best known for his graphic novel American Born Chinese, weaves a tale of a world learning the ways of peace after a century of war. It is a difficult lesson, *one that will threaten to tear the friendship of Avatar Aang and Fire Lord Zuko apart, and plunge the world back into war*.



Seems like it might not be an ongoing series but just a trilogy of books.


----------



## Burke (Aug 27, 2011)

Ohooooo SHIT
all is not well in the avatar world


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 27, 2011)

The comics oughta be good. The show ended on a happy note, and never did go into the ugly side of the aftermath of a century long war.


----------



## Friday (Aug 28, 2011)

Never ever watch Avatar high. I was watching the whole Sozin's comet chapters and I was trippin about how they were just kids, and some didn't have bending, and azula had a heart somewhere in there,, and Aang was so confused.. scary shit


----------



## Burke (Aug 28, 2011)




----------



## Quaero (Aug 28, 2011)

Aang by Gurihiru.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 28, 2011)

Hey, that's some good art you found there, Quaero!


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 28, 2011)

Well if you're buying the graphic novel, you'll be seeing a lot of that.
Aang does look similar to how we left him in the series than how Gurihiru drew him on the cover.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 29, 2011)

So, it seems that there may be a significant number of stories set between the original series and the new series, and I definitely would be interested in following these stories.



Noah said:


> The moment I wrote that line, I knew you were going to comment on it. Then I stopped for a second, considered deleting it, and then decided to keep it on the off chance that you'd glaze over it somehow. Congratulations, everything I post is now based on whether or not I think you'll respond to it and how that can be avoided.
> 
> If you read something (especially in this thread or the BH), and it doesn't logically make sense to you, assume it's sarcasm. It most likely is.
> 
> Jesus, you really are like a real life Sheldon.



Should I be pleased or displeased that you were anticipating my response to this post? And why do you seem to be so displeased by my response? What is wrong with what I said?


----------



## Ruby Moon (Aug 29, 2011)

Alright everyone, can we please talk more about the series and less about who said what? 

Besides from Zuko's finding Ursa and the gAang trying to deal with a post-war world filled with bitter, hard feelings, I want to see the White Lotus again. I want to know more about them and how they got started, because from the series, it sounded like they've been around for quite a long time. Who started the White Lotus? And will they be around in these comics?


----------



## Burke (Aug 29, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Alright everyone, can we please talk more about the series and less about who said what?
> 
> Besides from Zuko's finding Ursa and the gAang trying to deal with a post-war world filled with bitter, hard feelings, I want to see the White Lotus again. I want to know more about them and how they got started, because from the series, it sounded like they've been around for quite a long time. Who started the White Lotus? And will they be around in these comics?



There are some questions that do not require an answer.

Not everything deserves an origin story, and not every fans questions can be answered.


----------



## Stunna (Aug 29, 2011)

*cough* Star Wars Expanded Universe *cough*


----------



## Burke (Aug 29, 2011)

Stunna said:


> *cough* Star Wars Expanded Universe *cough*



just a way to get more money


----------



## Stunna (Aug 29, 2011)

I was giving an example of your statement.


----------



## Burke (Aug 29, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I was giving an example of your statement.





St. Burke said:


> just a way to get more money



**


----------



## Stunna (Aug 29, 2011)

Waitaminnit.

You changed your name? 

>rushes to alter signature


----------



## Burke (Aug 29, 2011)

/famous


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 29, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> There are some questions that do not require an answer.
> 
> Not everything deserves an origin story, and not every fans questions can be answered.




I wouldn't mind seeing more WL, though. That's an origin story that might be worth exploring.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 30, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> There are some questions that do not require an answer.
> 
> Not everything deserves an origin story, and not every fans questions can be answered.



I definitely agree that not every mystery in this story should be explored, such as the origin of the Order of the White Lotus, or who the first Avatar was, but I do believe that other mysteries definitely should be explored, most notably whether or not Toph reconciled with her parents, Longshot and Smellerbee's fates after Jet's death, and Ursa's fate. I would very much like to have answers to those questions.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 30, 2011)

So...release date for these books?


----------



## Wan (Aug 30, 2011)

The first is set to release on January 25th.


----------



## Friday (Aug 30, 2011)

A nice crack theory: What if The Equalists stemmed from Ty Lee joining the Kyoshi Warriors and teaching them Chi Blocking?


----------



## Nimander (Aug 30, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> This  from Dark Horse reveals just teensy bit about the new comics.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like it might not be an ongoing series but just a trilogy of books.



Looking forward to this.

I have no problem with open-endings, but I do possess that natural human desire for closure.  And there were quite a few things left a bit unresolved in the original series.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 30, 2011)

Friday said:


> A nice crack theory: What if The Equalists stemmed from Ty Lee joining the Kyoshi Warriors and teaching them Chi Blocking?



That would be very awesome, and exactly the sort of plot twist that I would expect from a series such as this, especially when one considers that Avatar Kyoshi founded the _Dai Li,_ although she was drastically different from Ty Lee in terms of personality.


----------



## Burke (Aug 30, 2011)

In the words of Del Spooner, "You are the _dumbest_ smart person, I have ever met in my life!"


----------



## Friday (Aug 30, 2011)

These are the ideas you get when you see the last chapters high


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 30, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> In the words of Del Spooner, "You are the _dumbest_ smart person, I have ever met in my life!"



To whom are you speaking when you say that?



Friday said:


> These are the ideas you get when you see the last chapters high



I still believe that that was an awesome idea, and a perfectly legitimate one.

I myself would like to see a story set after the main series where Azula breaks free from wherever she is and attempts to fight Zuko for the Fire Nation's throne, similar to their _Agni Kai_ earlier, but this time, on a much larger scale. Would anyone else like to see such a story?


----------



## Noah (Aug 30, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I definitely agree that not every mystery in this story should be explored, such as the origin of the Order of the White Lotus, or who the first Avatar was, but I do believe that other mysteries definitely should be explored, most notably whether or not Toph reconciled with her parents, Longshot and Smellerbee's fates after Jet's death, and Ursa's fate. I would very much like to have answers to those questions.



So....ignore the origin of the title character and the first (that we know of) international organization, but instead focus on things that have already been answered through implied storytelling(toph's parents, zuko's mom) or unnecessary epilogues to irrelevant quaternary characters.

Hell, why even bother having Korra? Let's just focus on the adventures of Ty Lee and the Kyoshi warriors instead for a season. 




> I myself would like to see a story set after the main series where Azula breaks free from wherever she is and attempts to fight Zuko for the Fire Nation's throne, similar to their Agni Kai earlier, but this time, on a much larger scale. Would anyone else like to see such a story?
> [\quote]
> 
> Absolutely not. She's done. Get me a new story and new villain.
> ...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 30, 2011)

Noah said:


> So....ignore the origin of the title character and the first (that we know of) international organization, but instead focus on things that have already been answered through implied storytelling(toph's parents, zuko's mom) or unnecessary epilogues to irrelevant quaternary characters.
> 
> Hell, why even bother having Korra? Let's just focus on the adventures of Ty Lee and the Kyoshi warriors instead for a season.



What is wrong with what I said? Do you deliberately you oppose everything that I post? Not once have I ever said that a post of yours was foolish or that an idea you had about the series was unnecessary, so I would appreciate it if you could give me that same courtesy.

Perhaps the origins of the Order of the White Lotus could be explored, but I definitely believe that the origins of the Avatar should be left unexplored to make them more mysterious.

As for your other comment, I agree that it is very likely that Toph did reconcile with her parents, but never has it been implied or suggested, from what I have observed, that Zuko ever learned what fate befell Ursa, and for that reason, I hope that that mystery is explored in a graphic novel.



Noah said:


> Absolutely not. She's done. Get me a new story and new villain.



You are entitled to your opinion, and I shall respect it, so I hope that you will acknowledge that I am entitled to mine, and respect it, as well.



Noah said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and bet that's not actually out of the question.



Yes, I am glad to learn that we can agree on at least one thing.


----------



## Burke (Aug 30, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> To whom are you speaking when you say that?





St. Burke said:


> "You are the _dumbest_ smart person, I have ever met in my life!"


**


----------



## VerdantVenus (Aug 30, 2011)

*walks in*

...

*coughmidichlorinscough*

...

*walks out*


----------



## Burke (Aug 30, 2011)

Ill take midicholrins over the "it-just-happens-lol" case.


----------



## Superstarseven (Aug 30, 2011)

Don't you mean Midichlorians?


----------



## Burke (Aug 30, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Don't you mean Midichlorians?



I... i dont even super, i dont even. :jove


----------



## Noah (Aug 31, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is wrong with what I said? Do you deliberately you oppose everything that I post? Not once have I ever said that a post of yours was foolish or that an idea you had about the series was unnecessary, so I would appreciate it if you could give me that same courtesy.



I was referring to your suggestion of a follow-up on Longshot and Smellerbee. They are the sidekicks to a tertiary character. Giving them any sort of follow up, outside of meeting the Gaang and being involved in whatever they're doing, is unnecessary. It'd be like Kubo writing a few chapters about Pesche and Dondochakka's training to learn that double cero they used on the espada. They're the sidekicks to a tertiary character in Bleach and it would accomplish nothing. Or one of the many(I'm sure, having never bothered to find out) stories about the other bounty hunters in the Star Wars Expanded Universe.



> As for your other comment, I agree that it is very likely that Toph did reconcile with her parents, but never has it been implied or suggested, from what I have observed, that Zuko ever learned what fate befell Ursa, and for that reason, I hope that that mystery is explored in a graphic novel.



Toph sent Hawky with a letter to her parents, and Zuko demanded that the fallen Ozai tell him where his mother is: Literary implication. That alone says "Yes, it happened." until we're told otherwise by the creators. Part of weaving a good story isn't showing or telling everything, a lot of it is implied.

And, since you asked, when I stop *literally* facepalming when I read your posts, my attitude towards you will change. There's a reason I almost never respond to more than one of your responses, and it's so I don't turn into this guy: 





That said, I'm already over my one response limit. So I'll stop channeling old Rekky and disappear for awhile again.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 31, 2011)

Noah said:


> I was referring to your suggestion of a follow-up on Longshot and Smellerbee. They are the sidekicks to a tertiary character. Giving them any sort of follow up, outside of meeting the Gaang and being involved in whatever they're doing, is unnecessary. It'd be like Kubo writing a few chapters about Pesche and Dondochakka's training to learn that double cero they used on the espada. They're the sidekicks to a tertiary character in Bleach and it would accomplish nothing. Or one of the many(I'm sure, having never bothered to find out) stories about the other bounty hunters in the Star Wars Expanded Universe.



So, are you saying that this story, or any story, should focus only on its main characters, while giving no screen time or character development to any other characters? I would find such a practice to be terribly monotonous and boring after a time, with only the same characters being show continuously. What about Suki? She was a minor character when she was first introduced, but she eventually appeared more frequently, experiencing growth and development as a character, and eventually became a permanent member of the main group, an example of the "sixth ranger" trope. What is different about Longshot and Smellerbee, for example? I find that focusing on minor characters helps to make the world of a series more diverse to the audience, allowing them to immerse themselves in it and feel as if it could actually exist; the _Star Wars Expanded Universe_ that you mentioned above is a particularly good example of this phenomenon.



Noah said:


> Toph sent Hawky with a letter to her parents, and Zuko demanded that the fallen Ozai tell him where his mother is: Literary implication. That alone says "Yes, it happened." until we're told otherwise by the creators. Part of weaving a good story isn't showing or telling everything, a lot of it is implied.



Yes, I can understand that, but I prefer to have certain things explicitly spelled out, as it leaves no room for misinterpretation or ambiguity. However, I need to stress that I do agree with you that not everything needs to be spelled out, such as any Avatars before those seen in the series or the origins of the Order of the White Lotus. Plus, Ursa's fate is far too interesting a story to not properly resolve, in my mind.


----------



## Banhammer (Aug 31, 2011)

those two guys were just accessories to jet, as much of a character as his hook swords


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 31, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> those two guys were just accessories to jet, as much of a character as his hook swords



Yes, but I am entitled to my opinion of them, am I not?


----------



## Noah (Aug 31, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> those two guys were just accessories to jet, as much of a character as his hook swords



This. There. Yes. That.


----------



## Burke (Aug 31, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, but I am entitled to my opinion of them, am I not?



Oh cool it DDJ, not everyone is out to contest you.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 31, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Oh cool it DDJ, not everyone is out to contest you.



Yes, I know that not _everyone_ is out to get me, but I definitely believe that one or two specific users here are deliberately making an effort to bother me very frequently, although, since I have been making an effort of my own to ignore them, I have observed that they have been bothering me less, at least until earlier today.

Now, to rephrase a question that I asked earlier: since Noah stated, and I agree, at least partially, that the rivalry between Zuko and Azula has been resolved, a story set after the main series involving Zuko and Azula fighting for the throne would be redundant and unnecessary, but I was very disappointed that their contest was a single _Agni Kai_ that lasted for only the two final episodes of the series. I definitely believe that the struggle between Zuko and Azula could have been an extended story arc that lasted for much longer than two episode, not unlike the War of the Five Kings in _A Song of Ice and Fire,_ in which two of the Five Kings are brothers, rather than only two episodes. Would that have been an interesting alternative to what actually happened, or would it have taken more time than what the series had?


----------



## The Imp (Aug 31, 2011)

The Zuko/Azula rivalry has been going on since the beginning of book 2. And it has never been Avatar's style for ridiculously drawn out fights, Ozai and Aang being the exception. The only thing I would change is Zuko defeating Azula himself rather than Katara having to step in to finish it. But the battle showed that Zuko outclassed her anyway so it's not too big of a problem for me.

And this isn't Westeros DDJ.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 31, 2011)

The Imp said:


> The Zuko/Azula rivalry has been going on since the beginning of book 2. And it has never been Avatar's style for ridiculously drawn out fights, Ozai and Aang being the exception. The only thing I would change is Zuko defeating Azula himself rather than Katara having to step in to finish it. But the battle showed that Zuko outclassed her anyway so it's not too big of a problem for me.
> 
> And this isn't Westeros DDJ.



Very well, then, it was simply an idea. I do hope that _The Legend of Korra_ has a similar rivalry, as I do enjoy rivalries between major characters in stories that I follow.


----------



## Friday (Aug 31, 2011)

I wonder if there'll be a character that'll match Azula's hype. I doubt it, but it would be interesting to see. I know it's bad to assume so early, but I'm guessing Amon has a similar character to Ozai, and the screentime will be similar. It would be a different approach to have a villain that isn't in the age range as the protagonist.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Aug 31, 2011)

Honestly, guys. Let him come up for air or something.


It's not outlandish to want a reference to the Longshot and Smellerbee question. Even if they were sidekicks to a side character, they were heavily involved in the climax to one of the best shows of the series peak run.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Aug 31, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Honestly, guys. Let him come up for air or something.
> 
> 
> It's not outlandish to want a reference to the Longshot and Smellerbee question. Even if they were sidekicks to a side character, they were heavily involved in the climax to one of the best shows of the series peak run.



Yes, thank you very much, Jove; I am so very glad that this website has rational and understanding users, and even more so that those users are moderators here.

However, I do not recall them being involved in the final battle, so are you referring to the episode where Long Feng and the _Dai Li_ were exposed and overthrown? Jet, Smellerbee, and Longshot were definitely involved in that episode.


----------



## masamune1 (Aug 31, 2011)

Friday said:


> I wonder if there'll be a character that'll match Azula's hype. I doubt it, but it would be interesting to see. I know it's bad to assume so early, but I'm guessing Amon has a similar character to Ozai, and the screentime will be similar. *It would be a different approach to have a villain that isn't in the age range as the protagonist.*



No it wouldn't be. It happens all the time.

Didn't think Azula had that much hype; if anything she came out of nowhere, taking everyone by surprise, and she made an impact right away. 

I don't think the comics will forget her either. Or, for that matter, Ozai.


----------



## Alpha (Sep 1, 2011)

So just watched Book 1 all the way through to 3. And I can conclude. Azula just needed a man in her life. She would of been all cool if she had one.


----------



## Wan (Sep 1, 2011)

No no no no.

NO.

If Azula had found a man, they would have dominated the EARTH!!! :jove


----------



## Burke (Sep 1, 2011)

only jove and me can :jove


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Sep 1, 2011)

SonnyBillWilliams said:


> So just watched Book 1 all the way through to 3. And I can conclude. Azula just needed a man in her life. She would of been all cool if she had one.



Then they'll get married, and once the first baby comes along she's bound to settle down and start treating the world right...


----------



## Alpha (Sep 1, 2011)

Oman said:


> No no no no.
> 
> NO.
> 
> If Azula had found a man, they would have dominated the EARTH!!! :jove



She would of been happy, she would of received love and care she didn't get from her Mummadukes. So the guy would of kept her in line and she would of just come at her Dad. All like "You Syrio Son?"



Waking Dreamer said:


> Then they'll get married, and once the first baby comes along she's bound to settle down and start treating the world right...



And then her Grandchild would become the next Avatar. Guarantee it.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 1, 2011)

SonnyBillWilliams said:


> So just watched Book 1 all the way through to 3. And I can conclude. Azula just needed a man in her life. She would of been all cool if she had one.



Azula needing a guy? I really can't imagine her with anyone.


----------



## Wan (Sep 1, 2011)

Agreed, Azula with a guy makes about as much sense as Zuko with Katara.


----------



## Alpha (Sep 1, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> Azula needing a guy? I really can't imagine her with anyone.



Not one of the original cast. He would of have to be a new guy and introduced. He would be a fucking bad arse. His name would be something amazing like Sonny Bill.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 1, 2011)

I definitely believe that it was very unfortunate that Azula never had proper romance in the series, but by the time that she was an adolescent in the series main timeline, I highly doubt that experiencing such love would cause her to alter her personality, as a person's personality usually does not change greatly after a certain age, and she was very determined to become the next Fire Lady at that point. I am tempted to say that if Ursa had shown Azula proper parental love when she was younger, Azula may have been different, but, from what I observed, it seemed that Ursa did make an effort to show proper love for Azula and Azula did not reciprocate her efforts. Therefore, in my mind, Azula herself was personally responsible for being as she was during the series.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 2, 2011)

Azula did have a man...


----------



## Darth (Sep 2, 2011)

She would have been solid with Jet.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 2, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Azula did have a man...



Are you referring to Chan, from _The Beach?_ If so, any chance of romance between them was destroyed when Azula proclaimed that they could "rule the world together."



Darth said:


> She would have been solid with Jet.



Perhaps, as they were both very driven, and had questionable mental stability, but Jet would never associate with Azula, the princess of the Fire Nation, which he hates, and Azula would consider Jet to be a "filthy peasant" who was not worthy of her attention.


----------



## Friday (Sep 2, 2011)

I wouldn't mind hearing from her grandchildren in Legends of Korra 

Also, Azula very much so could've been someone. There are other villains who may have deserved no one, but still managed to find love.

Plus, there's so much stuff about domination and aggression in sexy. It sounds like Azula's thing, really.


----------



## Wan (Sep 2, 2011)

There's gotta be somebody for Azula?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 2, 2011)

Guys, obviously, it's Ozai


----------



## Wan (Sep 2, 2011)

...

:sanji


----------



## Alpha (Sep 2, 2011)

I am not gonna lie, it's probably why she turned out like she did. Ozai did more then just read her bed time stories...


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 2, 2011)

SonnyBillWilliams, you have a dirty, dirty mind.


----------



## Alpha (Sep 2, 2011)

Ruby Moon said:


> SonnyBillWilliams, you have a dirty, dirty mind.



Thank you.


----------



## Jena (Sep 2, 2011)

What is going on here? 
You people...


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 2, 2011)

The Avatards are getting restless. We're going more off-track that the comments section at Failblog.


----------



## Superrazien (Sep 2, 2011)

She just needed a good fracking.


----------



## Burke (Sep 2, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> She just needed a good fracking.


yeah, that 14 year old needs a real poking...

how... illegal.


----------



## Noah (Sep 3, 2011)

Not if they're both 14!


----------



## Burke (Sep 3, 2011)

Noah said:


> Not if they're both 14!



But if Noah supports it, what does that say of Noah?


----------



## Noah (Sep 3, 2011)

Why, whatever do you mean?


----------



## Superrazien (Sep 3, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> yeah, that 14 year old needs a real poking...
> 
> how... illegal.



Old enough to rule a country, old enough to frack lol.


----------



## Alpha (Sep 3, 2011)

Jena said:


> What is going on here?
> You people...



I am just professing my Love for Azula whilst saying if I just spent a night with her, she would be all cool.

Edit: Just so we are all clear, I would have to wait till she is of age. And ask her for consent before I spent a night with her.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 3, 2011)

Nickelback and statutory rape....


I think I might have to shut this thread down for a while.


----------



## Alpha (Sep 3, 2011)

Who's raping who?! 

Also was Zuko ever told where his mum was/If she died how? Or did the writers just leave that open & unanswered?


----------



## G. Hawke (Sep 3, 2011)

Stunna said:


> *cough* Star Wars Expanded Universe *cough*



SW:EU gave us Mara Jade, thus I forgive it for all past, current and future transgressions. 

Then they killed her, brought low by by an act of betrayal most foul.

I was sad. 

Curse you for reminding me.


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 3, 2011)

Oman said:


> Agreed, Azula with a guy makes about as much sense as Zuko with Katara.


So that must mean that it makes perfect sense right???


----------



## G. Hawke (Sep 3, 2011)

Oh come on, stop mocking the Zutara fans. 

Not that I am one of them of course.


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 3, 2011)

I AM a proud Zutara fan. It was potentially a great relationship. Katara hated Zuko initially, but then their bond grew and they got got closer as he joined their side and she forgave him. 

So I would have like if they did get together, but I wasn't mad or anything that they didn't. It would have been nice I guess. 

A growing relationship is more interesting in a story than a simple one where the two people like each other already.

And to be honest Katara never seemed like she loved Aang so I was a little annoyed they got together so suddenly at the end. Maybe they should have had a few more mutually intimate scenes together.

Not that I hated ZukoxMai or AangxKatara, I just thought that AangxKatara was a bit rushed or out of nowhere unlike ZukoxKatara.

But no Azula should not have ben with anyone...UNLESS the the Mai character was originally a guy who loved Azula from childhood with the same personality. Those two would be good together. Or even AzulaxMai. Leaving Zuko and Katara able to get together. And Aang could get with some unknown character later.


----------



## G. Hawke (Sep 3, 2011)

.....

My only interest in Zutara is due to the epically awesome AU fanfic(in my personal opinion the best A:TLA fanfic in existence) that is . 

Otherwise I don't really ship anyone at all.


----------



## Wan (Sep 3, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> I AM a proud Zutara fan. It was potentially a great relationship. Katara hated Zuko initially, but then their bond grew and they got got closer as he joined their side and she forgave him.
> 
> So I would have like if they did get together, but I wasn't mad or anything that they didn't. It would have been nice I guess.
> 
> ...



Ahem.  Out of nowhere?

Ember Island Players.  The Day of Black Sun.  Nightmares and Daydreams.  The Guru/Crossroads of Destiny.  The Earth King. The Cave of Two Lovers.  The Fortuneteller.  _The first five minutes of the first episode._

Oh, and if stuff that just has to do with Katara and Aang's relationship without necessarily context as a romance counts (it has to for Zutara to work!) there's The Southern Air Temple, The Storm, The Avatar State, The Desert, The Serpent's Pass, The Awakening, and The Headband.

What is this "out of nowhere" you speak of?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 3, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> Not that I hated ZukoxMai or AangxKatara,




Then you aren't a true Zutarian.


----------



## G. Hawke (Sep 3, 2011)

Oh for gods sake, the show's over.

Katara is with Aang, Zuko is with Mai(I personally don't get the hate this pairing gets).

Let's just leave it at that. 



Ms. Jove said:


> Then you aren't a true Zutarian.



Which is strange, cause while I have a soft spot for Zutara, personally Maiko within the context of Fire Nation'as politics and nobility, makes bloody perfect sense.

......

Dammit, I got sucked into debate on pairings.

Bah.


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 3, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Then you aren't a true Zutarian.


I don't really care. I like what I like and I say what I want, while trying not to be too offensive with my opinions.

I feel like Aang's level of love wasn't mutual from Katara. Like he liked her more than she liked him it seems. There was no growing relationship. It just seemed like it was all Aang and she just gave in after the war was finally over. It was boring. Atleast Zuko and Katara would have been interesting and developed over time. I know they were some scenes between Aang and Katara but they didn't seem anything like her scenes with Zuko.

I just don't like romance stories that are just obvious, plain, forced or boring.



> Oh for gods sake, the show's over.


Butthe thread is still going so we can talk about whatever we want about the show.


----------



## Wan (Sep 3, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> I don't really care. I like what I like and I say what I want, while trying not to be too offensive with my opinions.
> 
> I feel like Aang's level of love wasn't mutual from Katara. Like he liked her more than she liked him it seems. There was no growing relationship. It just seemed like it was all Aang and she just gave in after the war was finally over. It was boring. Atleast Zuko and Katara would have been interesting and developed over time. I know they were some scenes between Aang and Katara but they didn't seem anything like her scenes with Zuko.
> 
> I just don't like romance stories that are just obvious, plain, forced or boring.



Not...mutual?  Not growing?

Oh, heaven forbid that Katara get into a relationship with someone she hasn't been spending lots of time with building the relationship, or one she may not have expressed too much feeling towards...oh wait.  Where's the appeal of Zutara then?

And please, go re-watch the end of The Headband.


----------



## Jena (Sep 3, 2011)

lol pairing wars

I don't think Kataang vs. Zutara will ever die.


----------



## Wan (Sep 3, 2011)

Sadly, yes. There's Zutarians who refuse to watch Korra because it showcases the...*ahem* fruits of Kataang.  Can't get much crazier than that.


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 3, 2011)

I used to like Zutara but this is getting ridiculous.They didn't even have enough development.(Only the episode about Katara's revenge issue,other than what?)

This is even worse than Naruto pairing tards.


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 3, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]kBCH7tcVnoE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Jena (Sep 3, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> [YOUTUBE]kBCH7tcVnoE[/YOUTUBE]



I'm torn between  and


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 3, 2011)

At least they had chemistry


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 3, 2011)

Moon~ said:


> I used to like Zutara but this is getting ridiculous.They didn't even have enough development.(Only the episode about Katara's revenge issue,other than what?)
> 
> This is even worse than Naruto pairing tards.



The ATLA pairings wars again? 

The best thing to do is go to fanfiction if you want something of a new flavor.


----------



## G. Hawke (Sep 3, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> [YOUTUBE]kBCH7tcVnoE[/YOUTUBE]



.....

I hate you.

I do, I really do.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 3, 2011)

Wait...

There was plenty of Zutara development, just not overtly as a romantic couple. But there was more than enough material there to effectively turn it around. It just would have involved rendering meaningless one of the earliest, crucial, and most persistent elements of the show.


I wonder whatever became of that Zutara Ending that came about on DA that Dante Basco agreed to participate in.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 3, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Wait...
> 
> There was plenty of Zutara development, just not overtly as a romantic couple. But there was more than enough material there to effectively turn it around. It just would have involved rendering meaningless one of the earliest, crucial, and most persistent elements of the show.
> 
> ...



Huh? Dante Basco agreed to participate in that? Ms. Jove, I demand proof!!


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 3, 2011)

There is proof and I know exactly what Jove is talking about. It was someone's crazy idea to remake the ending of the show so that Katara would end up with Zuko. They started calling it the Zutara Re-Finale. Makes sense, right? I do know that Dante recorded some lines and it's stashed somewhere tight because it hasn't been made available to the public yet. It's been in the works since 2008, I have no idea as to what has actually been accomplished.

You ever get a great idea then kind of forget how much time and effort would have to spent in order for it to be effective? I definitely don't think these girls would have put the American and Korean staff to shame but there's a certain level of quality they'd have to maintain in order for it not to be laughed away. A better idea would have been to just do the entire thing as a motion comic. A lot less time consuming and much less stress inducing than hoping for animators to work for free and get it in on time.

There was a contest held to provide a new opening for all this. Here's the winning entry - [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3Be7uCYN5M[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 3, 2011)

I just went to the  for the project, and apparently Basco has recorded all of his lines and sent them to the director/leader, but the project is slow due to lack of animators.

Very cool of him to do that for them. I wonder if they'll ever finish it, haha.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 3, 2011)

The director-leader who, despite being seemingly coherent and pleasant and sociable and all that, is renowned as the epitome of Zutara craziness.


----------



## The Imp (Sep 3, 2011)

I tried reading _How I became Yours_, a supposedly famous Zutara fan comic. I heard it was hilariously bad but I couldn't get passed the first chapter. Anybody here read the whole thing?


----------



## Burke (Sep 3, 2011)

The Imp said:


> I tried reading _How I became Yours_, a supposedly famous Zutara fan comic. I heard it was hilariously bad but I couldn't get passed the first chapter. Anybody *hear* read the whole thing?



fixed     .


----------



## Jena (Sep 3, 2011)

The Imp said:


> I tried reading _How I became Yours_, a supposedly famous Zutara fan comic. I heard it was hilariously bad but I couldn't get passed the first chapter. Anybody here read the whole thing?



Yo.



I was really bored and in need of some lolz.

I've also read most of the sequel, but I must say that the original is so much more entertaining.


----------



## The Imp (Sep 3, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> fixed     .


??? **


----------



## Burke (Sep 3, 2011)

The Imp said:


> ??? **



only jove would get it


----------



## Noah (Sep 3, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> There was a contest held to provide a new opening for all this. Here's the winning entry - [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3Be7uCYN5M[/YOUTUBE]



First. Boring AMV is boring.

Second. Looked more like it was promoting Aanko. Or Zukang. Or Zukangko. Or whatever.


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 3, 2011)

I just showed someone _The Beach_ and they were horrified. 

I have to admit, it did seem a bit...worse...this time around. I still like seeing a different side to Azula, though.


----------



## Time Expired (Sep 3, 2011)

Jena said:


> I'm torn between  and



I'm right there too


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 3, 2011)




----------



## Jena (Sep 3, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


>


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 3, 2011)

Dear Lord...


----------



## The Imp (Sep 3, 2011)

I'll try looking for my favourite pages. The one where Mai calls him a "chard monster" and the Mai-Katara showdown..

Edit: If anybody else wants to read it and have a quick laugh I'll post a link where I read it.


----------



## The Imp (Sep 3, 2011)




----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

what am i reading


----------



## Jena (Sep 3, 2011)

You have to love the author's creative application of *bold text* and her affinity for exclamation marks.

And then there's Mai's death...


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 3, 2011)

That death scene is actually disturbing. Seriously, eesh...


----------



## The Imp (Sep 3, 2011)

holy fuck... aang's face 

the dialogue is so fucking shitty


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah I think there were even some Zutarians who looked at that and said, "Ok, that's going too far."

It is absolutely the worst thing that someone from the fandom has ever produced. It'd be bad enough as a fanfic but there are visuals to go along with it?!
Atrocious.
Anyone want to see it narrated?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uun3a9lQ_yU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

The author's deranged. Seriously.


----------



## Jena (Sep 3, 2011)

The Imp said:


> holy fuck... aang's face
> 
> the dialogue is so fucking shitty



Oh my God 


What the hell? 

Since we're doing this....

More random moments:


*Spoiler*: _Love_ 









*Spoiler*: _Eroticism at its finest_ 









*Spoiler*: _Intense_ 









*Spoiler*: _Fairy versus Alien_ 









*Spoiler*: _Azula's here?_ 









*Spoiler*: _Take me_ 









*Spoiler*: _No words_ 











Superstarseven said:


> Yeah I think there were even some Zutarians who looked at that and said, "Ok, that's going too far."
> 
> It is absolutely the worst thing that someone from the fandom has ever produced. It'd be bad enough as a fanfic but there are visuals to go along with it?!
> Atrocious.
> ...


THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES IT BETTER


----------



## Stunna (Sep 3, 2011)

Man, what in the-

Stop. Just stop.


----------



## The Imp (Sep 3, 2011)

Wait, what? Why are there aliens and fairies?

I haven't read the whole thing, just bits and pieces here and there. I'm gonna try reading the whole thing from beginning to end tomorrow. It'll be funny but painful at the same time.


----------



## Time Expired (Sep 3, 2011)

:ho that's righteous...I don't think I've ever seen anything that pathetic before.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 3, 2011)

You can pass off Ichigo's face as Zuko if you change the hair color and draw in his scar. I've always felt that Bryan Konietzko's and Tite Kubo's character design work was really similar.


----------



## Wan (Sep 4, 2011)

Damn art thief...

EDIT: Oh for the love of...I found a profile for Jackie Diaz on a work/social networking site (not going to tell you where, go do your own creeping) and you know what she lists as an "achievement"?

"Created and plublished Avatar The Last Airbender? Fan comic"

And yes, that's an exact copy of the line.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 4, 2011)

Deer god...

I think I feel a part of my self _rotting_...

And great artists steal, she's not an art thief, she's a shitty artist for failing to steal successfully.


----------



## G. Hawke (Sep 4, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Man, what in the-
> 
> Stop. Just stop.



I concur. 

Even Zutara fans, which I am not, hate that crap.


----------



## bigduo209 (Sep 4, 2011)

I'll just leave this...


----------



## G. Hawke (Sep 4, 2011)

...while going through that link I somehow managed to end up on their Marvel fanfic recommendations list. I now know that there is an obscene amount of Tony/Steve fanfics.

This is knowledge I will never be able to un-know.

So thank you, for this horrible horrible thing. 

*dies inside*


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 4, 2011)

Man, you guys were having fun yesterday...

But yes, thank you for showing that video, Superstar. I know I've read better fanfiction.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 4, 2011)

This is why One Piece doesn't have romance


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 4, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> This is why One Piece doesn't have romance




Oda leaves the fandom to ship themselves with the characters.


----------



## Koi (Sep 4, 2011)

G. Hawke said:


> ...while going through that link I somehow managed to end up on their Marvel fanfic recommendations list. I now know that there is an obscene amount of Tony/Steve fanfics.
> 
> This is knowledge I will never be able to un-know.
> 
> ...



I LOVE TONY/STEVE.  It's actually canon in an alt-universe where Tony was born female.  Chick!Tony and Steve get married and everything.  It's fantastic.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 4, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> This is why One Piece doesn't have romance



Why do you say that? Are you saying that the obsessions of some fans over romantic pairings detract from the enjoyment of other fans of the series itself? I myself prefer to avoid openly participating in the often intense debates over romantic pairings, but I do still like to have my own preferences in regards to which characters I believe are best-suited for which other characters.



Ms. Jove said:


> Oda leaves the fandom to ship themselves with the characters.



That is very true, my good friend.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Sep 4, 2011)

So I hear Korra has been pushed back til 2013 because Nick ordered more episodes or something


----------



## Stunna (Sep 4, 2011)

If that's true then I'm disappointed that we'll have to wait longer, but happy we'll have more episodes.


----------



## Koi (Sep 4, 2011)

..Why can't they just, I dunno, _make more episodes while airing the show?_  Why does it have to be pushed back?


----------



## Stunna (Sep 4, 2011)

Hm, good point. /kanyeshrug


----------



## Coteaz (Sep 4, 2011)

This makes me sad, because I had a little fantasy crush on Mai back when the show first aired.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 4, 2011)

Koi said:


> ..Why can't they just, I dunno, _make more episodes while airing the show?_  Why does it have to be pushed back?


It's probably a safety measure in case the show bombs, then they wouldn't waste money and resources on making a season that might not be aired.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 4, 2011)

Koi said:


> ..Why can't they just, I dunno, _make more episodes while airing the show?_  Why does it have to be pushed back?



Well that's usually how TV animation works so you're not out of your mind for thinking that. I'll wait for more confirmation from other sources.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 4, 2011)

Last I heard it was mid-to-late 2012, and that was after the announcement of 14 more episodes. This is the first time I've heard 2013 and I'd love to see this guy's source, but Avatar history tells us that we should always assume the later date is the correct one.


----------



## Burke (Sep 4, 2011)

its just february 2013 most likely.
whats an extra 6 months to die hard avatar fans


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 4, 2011)

It certainly is unfortunate that the new series may not premiere for some time yet, but I am glad for that, as I currently do not have a great amount of time for following another television series, so I hope that I do have more free time when it actually does premiere.


----------



## Wan (Sep 4, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Last I heard it was mid-to-late 2012, and that was after the announcement of 14 more episodes. This is the first time I've heard 2013 and I'd love to see this guy's source, but Avatar history tells us that we should always assume the later date is the correct one.



This is true.  Sadly.


----------



## Platinum (Sep 5, 2011)

More episodes can only be a good thing.

Besides we have already waited this long, a little more wait won't hurt if this is true.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 5, 2011)

Reminds me of the Shippuden wait


----------



## G. Hawke (Sep 5, 2011)

Koi said:


> I LOVE TONY/STEVE.  It's actually canon in an alt-universe where Tony was born female.  Chick!Tony and Steve get married and everything.  It's fantastic.



Yes, wonderful and all.

But 616 Marvel's Tony and Steve are not gay for for each other. I love me m/m fics, but I HATE slash fics that turn 2 perfectly straight people into sudden homos just because they're creepy fangirls(boys) who like sticking men with other men for some weirdly derived pleasure. 

Personally, it's a free world and all, but I will never think it anything but creepy.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 5, 2011)

Mider T said:


> Reminds me of the Shippuden wait



I sincerely hope that _The Legend of Korra_ does not take as long a period of time to become a reality as did _Naruto: Shippuden;_ that would be a most excruciating delay, indeed.

On that subject, and to help relieve the tedium of waiting, I have found several very nice pieces of artwork of the new series, which I hope have not been posted before.


*Spoiler*: __ 




 by Acaciathorn of _DeviantArt_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by Acaciathorn of _DeviantArt_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by BlindBandit of _DeviantArt_



*Spoiler*: __ 




 by G-e-e-r-s of _DeviantArt_


I hope that everyone enjoys these images.


----------



## MunchKing (Sep 5, 2011)

^That last one scared the filling out of my donut.

She's like that possessed chick from The Excorcist, staring at you.  _Creeeepy._

The first image, Kickass Korra.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 5, 2011)

Dante speaks about Avatar:TLA, Legend of Korra and the film.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlPF36hpkVw[/YOUTUBE]

He confirmed that he doesn't voice Zuko at all in the new series.
Time to exhale if you thought that we'd see Zuko finding his mom in the series. Spend your lunch money on the graphic novels.

[YOUTUBE]ZVF5FAWCYx0[/YOUTUBE]

**


----------



## Friday (Sep 5, 2011)

I wanna sleep with Dante Basco.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 5, 2011)

Man, the charisma on those two. How'd Basco find air in the room to answer?


The Rufio question...


----------



## Wan (Sep 6, 2011)

Cool interview.

Some of the music tracks from Avatar have been made available online, but not all.  If there was to be an official soundtrack release for the show, what tracks would you want on it?

Personally, I would want:

Main Theme (extended version, from the series premiere)
Ending theme that played a lot in Book 1 and was reprised when Aang & Katara kissed at the end.
Agni Kai theme played when Zuko & Zhao first fought
Ominous chanting played most notably in "The Winter Solstice Part 2", "Siege of the North Part 2", and "The Phoenix King"
Tsungi Horn theme
Yu Yan archers theme
Fire Nation theme
Azula's theme
Avatar State theme
The music played when Aang disables the Drill
Credits theme
The music played when Aang was electrocuted by Azula
Season 3 trailer theme
Theme played during the recap before "Sozin's Comet" (TV/Netflix version, not the standard DVD recap theme)
Reconciliation theme played when Zuko reunited with Iroh
Theme played at the end of "The Old Masters" when Team Avatar and the OWL headed out on their missions.
"The Last Agni Kai" (theme for Azula and Zuko's final fight)
The music for the first part of Aang and Ozai's fight
The triumphant music played at the end of Aang and Ozai's fight.
Sozin's Comet credits music

Most of these have been already made available online, but many haven't.  Make it happen, Nickelodeon!

Edit:  I've noticed plenty of visual and writing parallels throughout Avatar (for example, Aang energybending Ozai sends up a pillar of light similar to the one when he awoke, and Iroh telling Zuko "A man needs his rest" both at the beginning and end of Book 1) but I just found out about one more.



Katara holding Aang as he revived exactly resembles when she held him as he first awoke.  These artistic touches are part of what makes Avatar great.


----------



## Wang Fire (Sep 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> Cool interview.
> 
> Some of the music tracks from Avatar have been made available online, but not all.  If there was to be an official soundtrack release for the show, what tracks would you want on it?
> 
> ...



online

I believe that's the one I downloaded. It was a while ago though and I haven't gotten around to listening to it all, but I'm sure it has most of those tracks you mentioned.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 6, 2011)

Ooohhh, thanks for the vids, Superstarseven! 

Dante looks as fresh as ever. I always thought he was the only one who could don pirate make-up on right. I loved him the first time I saw him in Hook. 

So he thinks that Shyamalan's decision to change the pronunciation of Aang's and Sokka's names was, well, ugh? Cool, we do too! and I do hope that Bryke gives us some closure on Ursa.


----------



## Koi (Sep 6, 2011)

I would want.. all tracks ever.  On like seven discs.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 6, 2011)

I wonder if Zutarians are going to blow up what he said in the interview about him and Mae Whitman being love interests in 2 different shows? As someone who did watch Jake Long I can say that the relationship in that show was completely different. Those 2 characters did actually like each other romantically and it was made obvious. If Zutarians could switch their energy to that show, they'd be much more satisfied. That whole forbidden love aspect is present also and touched upon heavily.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 6, 2011)

Wasn't the Jake Long thing one of their secondary arguments?


----------



## MunchKing (Sep 6, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I wonder if Zutarians are going to blow up what he said in the interview about him and Mae Whitman being love interests in 2 different shows? As someone who did watch Jake Long I can say that the relationship in that show was completely different. Those 2 characters did actually like each other romantically and it was made obvious. If Zutarians could switch their energy to that show, they'd be much more satisfied. That whole forbidden love aspect is present also and touched upon heavily.



Sigh. Again with the shipping.   Why won't it end?



> Some of the music tracks from Avatar have been made available online, but not all. If there was to be an official soundtrack release for the show, what tracks would you want on it?
> 
> Personally, I would want:
> 
> ...



My body is ready. 



> Edit: I've noticed plenty of visual and writing parallels throughout Avatar (for example, Aang energybending Ozai sends up a pillar of light similar to the one when he awoke, and Iroh telling Zuko "A man needs his rest" both at the beginning and end of Book 1) but I just found out about one more.



Yeah, that one was a pretty clever callback to the beginning of the series.


----------



## Wan (Sep 6, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> online
> 
> I believe that's the one I downloaded. It was a while ago though and I haven't gotten around to listening to it all, but I'm sure it has most of those tracks you mentioned.



I know most of them have been made available (unofficially) online, and I downloaded them around 2 years ago, but a lot still haven't.  It would also be nice if an official soundtrack had extended editions of some of the previously released tracks, as well.



Ruby Moon said:


> Ooohhh, thanks for the vids, Superstarseven!
> 
> Dante looks as fresh as ever. I always thought he was the only one who could don pirate make-up on right. I loved him the first time I saw him in Hook.
> 
> So he thinks that Shyamalan's decision to change the pronunciation of Aang's and Sokka's names was, well, ugh? Cool, we do too! and I do hope that Bryke gives us some closure on Ursa.



I know, right?  I love his comparison: "I'm going to do Star Wars, but call him Loke Skywalker..."

He also just points out the inconsistency with Zuko not being bald.  Cutting off his ponytail and letting his hair grow out was a pivotal, symbolic moment for Zuko (and Iroh).  Just another thing Shymalan trashed for no good reason...



Koi said:


> I would want.. all tracks ever.  On like seven discs.



YES.  Only it's never going to happen.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 7, 2011)

People just don't understand how hard it is to release music nowadays. Especially an online only album. Oh man, first you'd have to get the OK from the composers--then upload the tracks, make it viewable in the iTunes store and set the price. And lastly the toughest part--writing the album description. You can't possibly imagine how strenuous it is for the one person hired to do that.


----------



## Koi (Sep 7, 2011)

G. Hawke said:


> Yes, wonderful and all.
> 
> But 616 Marvel's Tony and Steve are not gay for for each other. I love me m/m fics, but I HATE slash fics that turn 2 perfectly straight people into sudden homos just because they're creepy fangirls(boys) who like sticking men with other men for some weirdly derived pleasure.
> 
> Personally, it's a free world and all, but I will never think it anything but creepy.


Did you.. not read the end of Civil War?  When Steve and Tony meet to try and talk it out one last time?  And then they wind up having an angry, manly, knock-down, drag-out fight before collapsing on top of one another, sweaty and out of breath before deciding to go their separate ways?  Because I did.  And it was _good_.


----------



## Burke (Sep 7, 2011)

whos steve


----------



## MunchKing (Sep 7, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> whos steve



Captain America. If I recall correctly. I'm not that familiar with the comic.

Apparently he's a butt pirate. Didn't know that was canon.


----------



## Burke (Sep 7, 2011)

HELL YEAH IM A MOD! SUCK IT BITCHES.

wait...
wait...

well played


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 7, 2011)

Oman said:


> I know, right?  I love his comparison: "I'm going to do Star Wars, but call him Loke Skywalker..."
> 
> He also just points out the inconsistency with Zuko not being bald.  Cutting off his ponytail and letting his hair grow out was a pivotal, symbolic moment for Zuko (and Iroh).  Just another thing Shymalan trashed for no good reason...





Loke Skywalker...shit! 

Seriously, why didn't Dev Patel shave his head and look as much as the original Zuko looked? Zuko cutting off his ponytail in Book 2 was a totally Asian thing to do! I suppose Shyamalan didn't consider this.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 7, 2011)

I still outrank all of you.


PS: Here is my fuller collection of Avatar music - online


----------



## Burke (Sep 7, 2011)

name yourself St. Jove and make your name blue again


----------



## Wan (Sep 8, 2011)

Recently the topic of Aang's character came up in a discussion with another NF member regarding Sozin's Comet.  Now, I _don't_ want to get into a discussion about the finale -- it's been discussed enough -- but I think Aang's character merits discussion.

Said member quoted another person to sum up his view:

*"For me, Aang is not the hero of ATLA. Zuko is. Zuko is the one who has change and growth and development. Conversely, all of Aang's views get validated and he doesn't have to change his ways at all – he gets his druthers and never has to make a decision that might sacrifice his personality or identity. He remains insulated from the world and its problems, and rewarded for his weakness. 

Does he defeat the Fire Lord? Yes. But does he conquer any of his inner demons? No. And it's sad, because while the others have grown up, he has not. He is Peter Pan, and the Lion-Turtle's back is his Neverland."*

I can't disagree enough with this.  Aang had "inner demons" throughout the show -- first of all was the survivor's guilt he picked up in "The Southern Air Temple" and dealt with in "The Storm" (Zuko wasn't the only guy who got character development in that episode.) The affect on his character is clear in "The Siege of the North":

"I wasn't there when the Fire Nation attacked my people. I'm going to make a difference this time."

There's Aang's fear of harming others through Firebending, picked up because of his foolishness in "The Deserter", addressed in "The Guru", touched upon in "The Western Air Temple" (and critical in changing his view on Zuko), and only fully resolved in "The Firebending Masters". Other difficulties he's had include fearing the destructive power of the Avatar State in "The Avatar State", going into a sort of depression upon losing Appa in "The Desert" but maturely resolving it in "The Serpent's Pass" before he recovered Appa, and feeling guilt over failing his duty and the world in "The Awakening". On the side of changing his views, he does detach himself from Katara to master the Avatar State in "Crossroads of Destiny" after baulking at the concept. We never see the fruit of that thanks to Azula's quick, sensible thinking () but it happens. There's also Aang's attitudes towards the bending arts of Earthbending and Firebending. The firebending arc is more drawn out, but both force him to accept an attitude toward life different than what he had before.

To say that Aang has never dealt with and conquered his personal demons is just plain false. It's not his personality -- most of the time -- to continually brood over his problems, but he doesn't have to. That's Zuko's shtick, not his.

That's not to say that Aang has superior characterization and development over Zuko.  Zuko's a great character.  But just because Zuko's characterization works so well does not mean it would work for Aang.  It works because of Zuko's past, his potential, and where he started.  He had a lot more character development to go through than Aang -- he started as a villain, after all -- so the character growth was a lot more drastic.  Aang had issues, but none that _required_ a huge shift in his very definition of good and evil.  He's the hero from the start, he doesn't need that.

Need I bring up that M. Night Shyamalan is an unabashed Zuko fanboy, and wanted to bring that same kind of severity to Aang's character?  Look how that ended up.  Movie!Aang is in no way a better character than Show!Aang.  In fact, the sharp difference in the characters highlights that Aang's character in the show was not only good, but helped Zuko's character by the contrast.  I'll quote bebopsamurai's analysis of the movie to illustrate the point:

*"Over and over again, Konietzko and DiMartino emphasized that our two protagonists were foils to each other-- that is, characters who contrast in order to emphasize each other's respective traits.  So if for most of Season One, Zuko is a driven, humorless, rigid and angry character, then it makes sense for Aang to be an easygoing, positive, joyful and humorous character, wouldn't you say? So why did Shyamalan feel it was necessary to make Aang as much like Zuko as he could without outright giving him the scar?  Because it seemed like he 'wasn't upset enough' or something?  

Aang's not exactly 'over' his pain or guilt-- Southern Air Temple, The Storm and The Guru prove that-- but part of what makes him work as a hero is because he's working to try and fix things despite his shortcomings AND because he's ultimately an unflappably positive person.  God forbid there should be a protagonist who's genuinely in awe of and enthusiastic about the world he's apart of.  It's also part of what makes Zuko's journey stand out so much by comparison.

Regardless of which hero you feel is 'best,' the fact is that not only do BOTH of them need to be there, but BOTH of them have to portray these two vastly different worldviews and personalities, in order to hold each other up as characters.  In much the same way that the differing tones of drama and humor have to be intact in some degree to elevate the film and make it work.

Otherwise, well... it's just boring."*

tl;dr:  Aang had character development and growth, maturing over the series.  He didn't need Zuko's personality traits to do this.

So!  Any other thoughts?


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 8, 2011)

It's nice to have contrasting opinions, don't you think? 

Oman, it's all a matter of perspective.


----------



## Wan (Sep 8, 2011)

It's a matter of perspective as to whether Aang is a well-made character, if Zuko was characterized better, etc.  But it's just not true to say that Aang had no character development, growth, and issues to deal with through the show.


----------



## Burke (Sep 8, 2011)

Survivors guilt is some serious shit for an 11 year old to deal with.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 8, 2011)

Notice how there wasn't anymore goofing off with his bending training after The Siege of The North.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 8, 2011)

Loved this series, it's plot and it's characters. Hopefully Korra's story will carry the same vibe as the original one.

A fanart of the previous Avatar, Korra's predecessor. By Google123:


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 8, 2011)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Loved this series, it's plot and it's characters. Hopefully Korra's story will carry the same vibe as the original one.
> 
> A fanart of the previous Avatar, Korra's predecessor. By Google123:
> 
> ...



Damn, Sennin, but Aang looks badass there!


----------



## Burke (Sep 8, 2011)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Loved this series, it's plot and it's characters. Hopefully Korra's story will carry the same vibe as the original one.
> 
> A fanart of the previous Avatar, Korra's predecessor. By Google123:
> 
> ...



Uh, why are you talking like that 
his names aang


----------



## Noah (Sep 8, 2011)

I believe you mean Ong.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 9, 2011)

Zuko is my favorite character, and I while do believe that he experienced greater growth and development than did any other character in the series, I also believe that Aang experienced his own growth and development, apart from his learning to master all the elements.

Aang was introduced to the series as a boy who was carefree and fun-loving, but who had the enormous responsibility of being the Avatar, the spirit of the world, a responsibility that was given to him without his consent and at a much earlier age than was normal for the Avatar. Aang at first attempted to flee from this responsibility, but when that cowardice led to the genocide of his people, he realized that he needed to accept his responsibility and deal with the threat to the world. Another major aspect of his development was his romance with Katara, which had many trials and twists as the series progressed and helped to give Aang greater depth as a character and add drama to his role in the story.



Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Loved this series, it's plot and it's characters. Hopefully Korra's story will carry the same vibe as the original one.
> 
> A fanart of the previous Avatar, Korra's predecessor. By Google123:
> 
> ...



That is a very nice illustration, indeed.


----------



## Wan (Sep 9, 2011)

I wouldn't say that Aang running away was an act of "cowardice" -- it was a foolish and immature act, done more out of anger and frustration than fear.  And it didn't directly lead to the genocide of his people -- the Air Nomads would have been wiped out with or without Aang, and if he was there he would have just died along with them.  Still though, he never wanted the responsibility of the Avatar (omg he's Adam Jensen) and fully accepting that responsibility, owning up to his failures at that point, and resolving to do better was a major part of his character growth.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 9, 2011)

I wonder if that lost library that Aang and co. discovered in Book 2, where they found out about the eclipse, will be present in Korra's story. As far as I know all of  the 4 tribes/kingdoms/nations/nomads are now 1 as a whole in the world, so that probably means said library was rescued from the depths of the desert and is now available for everyone to come in to read about the Avatarverse's history & secrets.



St. Burke said:


> Uh, why are you talking like that
> his names aang



lol I just wanted to sound cool. Don't mind me.


----------



## Quaero (Sep 9, 2011)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> I wonder if that lost library that Aang and co. discovered in Book 2, where they found out about the eclipse, will be present in Korra's story. As far as I know all of  the 4 tribes/kingdoms/nations/nomads are now 1 as a whole in the world, so that probably means said library was rescued from the depths of the desert and is now available for everyone to come in to read about the Avatarverse's history & secrets.



I'm pretty sure it went back to the spirit world, not merely buried under the desert.


----------



## Koi (Sep 9, 2011)




----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 9, 2011)

Chocobo head=Cloud

Cockatoo head= Sasuke

Turtle-Duck head= Bolin


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 9, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]sbrIec6ofoM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 10, 2011)

In response to a Tumbler discussion - 


> I’m not even going to pretend to be involved with or know anything about ATLA fandom or comic con or whatever you call it but I gotta chime in with jhameia’s observations here. I’d heard so many good things about Avatar: The Last Airbender that I was pretty surprised when I started watching it in the past couple of months at how shallow and un-Asian I found it. This doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with anybody who loves it! I know it has moved many people, and that’s a good thing. Nobody should be made to feel bad about art they love and find inspiring, so I don’t do that trip. But I’m speaking honestly as a Chinese American student of story, art, craft, and culture, and while I don’t think my opinion particularly matters, it’s just an honest reaction.
> 
> To me, to a Chinese person, ATLA definitely comes off as a white US American story with Asian costumes, sets, and weird accents (ah, the dilemmas of speculative fiction and accents…). There’s Chinese calligraphy to kick off every episode, but the calligraphy is awful. The understanding of the elements is off. The character motivations and arcs are distinctly US American — they constantly do things and react in ways that just don’t sit right if you’re at all immersed in traditional East Asian cultures. Despite the many Chinese costumes and sets, there’s really nothing about the story which feels Chinese to me — or Inuit, for that matter (flying six-legged bison are very cute, but nope). After all, it is a white person’s writing on Nickelodeon, so all this really shouldn’t be a surprise.
> 
> Will these observations be accentuated in the upcoming series? Yeah, it makes sense that they very well might, because storytelling success tends to engender self-caricature in the US sequel scene. And no doubt, drawing on 1920s Shanghai like Coco Chanel is a trap of colonialism and exotic appropriation. On the other hand, it’s certainly too early to say, so maybe the producers will surprise us all with a move into a more mature frame.



I simply quoted this because in the 5 years that I've been a fan, I've actually never come across a critique of how poorly East Asian culture is represented in A:TLA 
It's always been the exact opposite. I remember being fascinated with how Rekky would bring a uniquely Chinese-American perspective to episodes. Always made me think that the crew did much more research than we'll ever know.

The person who wrote this obviously isn't an idiot but I do have to question how "awful" the calligraphy actually is. If Dr. Siu-Leung Lee's website is to be believed, he's been practicing Chinese Calligraphy for 60 years. And because there's never a six legged Bison it just further exemplifies how "shallow and un-Asian" Avatar is? Not familiar with Miyazaki's work I imagine or how homages work? Perhaps Gene Yang can fix the major mistakes and infuse some actual Asian elements into the comics he's writing.

We can only hope.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2011)

There's not enough annoying old hags hanging ducks on your window maybe?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2011)

Asides from the things they show in the Show, china can be a pretty suckass place to live. I'm glad they didn't put it in


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 10, 2011)

That sounds like someone who wants to pronounce their ethnicity in the most self-gratifying way possible.

Contrast it with Rekky, who uses the same ethnic background to enlighten.


I'm guessing there's a gargantuan intellect and knowledge level disparity. You know, since this person provides absolutely no solid examples, whereas Rekky is almost too intricate at times.

I wonder how people "immersed in traditional East Asian culture" react to things, since it's completely different than how other human beings in universally resonant situations react.


----------



## Jena (Sep 10, 2011)

> I?m not even going to pretend to be involved with or know anything about ATLA fandom or comic con or whatever you call it but I gotta chime in with jhameia?s observations here. I?d heard so many good things about Avatar: The Last Airbender that I was pretty surprised when I started watching it in the past couple of months at how shallow and un-Asian I found it. This doesn?t mean there?s anything wrong with anybody who loves it! I know it has moved many people, and that?s a good thing. Nobody should be made to feel bad about art they love and find inspiring, so I don?t do that trip. But I?m speaking honestly as a Chinese American student of story, art, craft, and culture, and while I don?t think my opinion particularly matters, it?s just an honest reaction.
> 
> To me, to a Chinese person, ATLA definitely comes off as a white US American story with Asian costumes, sets, and weird accents (ah, the dilemmas of speculative fiction and accents?). There?s Chinese calligraphy to kick off every episode, but the calligraphy is awful. The understanding of the elements is off. The character motivations and arcs are distinctly US American ? they constantly do things and react in ways that just don?t sit right if you?re at all immersed in traditional East Asian cultures. Despite the many Chinese costumes and sets, there?s really nothing about the story which feels Chinese to me ? or Inuit, for that matter (flying six-legged bison are very cute, but nope). After all, it is a white person?s writing on Nickelodeon, so all this really shouldn?t be a surprise.
> 
> Will these observations be accentuated in the upcoming series? Yeah, it makes sense that they very well might, because storytelling success tends to engender self-caricature in the US sequel scene. And no doubt, drawing on 1920s Shanghai like Coco Chanel is a trap of colonialism and exotic appropriation. On the other hand, it?s certainly too early to say, so maybe the producers will surprise us all with a move into a more mature frame.



I don't even know where to begin, honestly, so I'll just settle by saying that this person is an idiot.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 10, 2011)

Quaero said:


> I'm pretty sure it went back to the spirit world, not merely buried under the desert.



A whole place such as that one can go to the Spirit World? O_o I get that it's guarding, the big owl, could since he/it was presented as a creature that probably would hail from that place but I am not sure if it applies to the library itself.

Maybe we'll have to wait till LOK premiers to find out.


----------



## Quaero (Sep 10, 2011)

Just going by the Wiki, so take it with a grain of salt. 

But it does makes sense if you think about it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 10, 2011)

I always presumed he simply buried it. If he wanted to transplant it back to the Spirit World, why go through the trouble of burying it? I doubt that's how it shifts between worlds, though that would be pretty awesome if it was.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 10, 2011)

I smell people talking about me...

...

*reads thing*

....


I think this guy is a poseur using his ethnicity as a license to whine...

He says the calligraphy is terrible?

I suppose he's not used to the different eras of the written language. I thought they were very very accurate and clever with the language in the series, using older forms of the language on similarly ancient things, going up to the modern language we use today.

Further more, the script above the title isn't grammatically incorrect, it's a kind of a prose form of Chinese, designed to be poetically terse, since paper and ink were expensive commodities in times long past.

It's kinda like Shakespearean, no one actually speaks it the way it's written.

And I don't think he gave any close attention to the language on things like the wanted posters, differences in Zuko's name on the poster paints his name as some treasonous brigand, while his name in the "Tales of Ba Sing Se" is much more flattering. 

Culture is seeped in every bit of the show, I think he's just caught up on how the style makes them look not so Asian.

And what is great about Avatar is, they don't just represent one ethnic group or period of Asia, there's differences in eras, cultures, and ethnic groups. 

I get the feeling that he feels self entitled to the culture, thinking he has license to dictate how it should be represented.

I'm just proud to be part of such a rich, beautiful history, and I believe that saying Avatar is a worthy representation of it does it no justice to how greatly it introduces basically the other side of the world to people otherwise not aware of a culture besides their own.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 11, 2011)

That's a well written rebuttal. If Avatar were as "Un-Asian" as this fellow wrote than it would make you wonder what type of 'shrooms the founders of Racebending were on when they based their whole organization on how overtly Asian A:TLA seemed to be. Wasn't the original motto: "Aang can stay Asian and still save the world"?

Derek Kirk Kim wrote that "Avatar: The Last Airbender is unmistakably Asian. I can’t really see a way around that."

Gene Lang (author of *American Born Chinese*) before any official paid association with the series wrote "*Yes, it was created by two white guys*. Yes, it was produced by an American cable network for a largely white American audience. Yes, all the scripts were written in English.

*But* the entire fantasy world of The Last Airbender - from the clothing to the architecture to the Chinese writing on the scrolls - draws very blatantly from real-world Asian and Inuit cultures. *The characters themselves are as Asian as Marvel Comics' Black Panther is Black*."


----------



## Wan (Sep 11, 2011)

Avatar is, and Legend of Korra will be, a show written by westerners.  It's what makes the story accessible to a _western_ audience.  But the creators "did their homework", so to speak.  Bryan Konietzko trained in kung fu under Sifu Kisu before asking him to work on the show.  They hired a professional calligrapher to do the calligraphy.  And, not content to just look at pictures of Chinese architecture, Mike and Bryan took a trip to China and the Forbidden City between book 1 and book 2 so they could see the culture and architecture for themselves, and bring back loads of their own photos.

So yeah, the show was created and written by westerners.  My question to that person would be:  do you know of something made by westerners that's _better?_


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 11, 2011)

You mean a series that features Asian culture written by Westerners that's better?

Not a lot to choose from there.
Legend Of The Dragon
Juniper Lee
Jake Long: American Dragon

What am I missing?


----------



## Wan (Sep 11, 2011)

Hmm...Jackie Chan Adventures?  Xiaolin Showdown?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 11, 2011)

I consider myself a Westerner...


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 11, 2011)

Oman said:


> Hmm...Jackie Chan Adventures?  Xiaolin Showdown?



Jackie Chan Adventures is definitely one.
Xiaolin Showdown was actually created by an Asian person. Chinese to be exact.
Out of all the shows I mentioned, Xiaolin Showdown is the one that gets lumped into discussion with Avatar the most.


----------



## Burke (Sep 11, 2011)

Its times like these that force me to question my worth to this thread...


----------



## Jena (Sep 11, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Its times like these that force me to question my worth to this thread...



Why's that?


----------



## Glued (Sep 11, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> In response to a Tumbler discussion -
> 
> 
> I simply quoted this because in the 5 years that I've been a fan, I've actually never come across a critique of how poorly East Asian culture is represented in A:TLA
> ...



Well Avatar always has been an American show

The episode where they discuss the subject of arranged marriages and the culture of the Northern water tribe. Katara openly calls it stupid tradition in front of all the people in the Northern Water Tribe. 

Aang never really finds enlightenment, he just gets the solution handed to him. In fact Aang actually turned away from enlightenment for Katara.

Sokka lied to his Sifu and learned how to master a sword relatively quickly.

The Wrestling tournament with Toph as grand champion. The Boulder was a direct homage to "The Rock." 

Zuko shouting into a thundering sky screaming like Jobe did to God within the bible.

Then there were the pirates, with parrots.

Hell Sokka, the sexist, was humiliated on an island of women warriors. Was forced to wear a dress. You might as well have been screaming, "Girl Power!!!" At the top of your lungs.

And most important of all. The sheer display of cheese cake. Of Mai and Zuko making out. Of Sokka waiting his tent with a rose in his mouth, ready for Suki. Girls and boys on ember island walking around shirtless playing volleyball. Chinese culture a few hundred years ago was bit more conservative than this.


----------



## Wan (Sep 11, 2011)

It draws inspiration from Chinese culture, but it's not historical fiction and it's not meant to be.


----------



## Glued (Sep 11, 2011)

Oman said:


> It draws inspiration from Chinese culture, but it's not historical fiction and it's not meant to be.



Culture is more than just martial arts, foods, dresses and architecture. It includes values and ways of thinking.

Avatar not only uses mostly western values, it went out of its way to criticize Eastern values. For example the young boys and girls in the Fire Nation who don't sing and dance together. They even went behind their parents back to dance with one another.

The best displays of Eastern culture was how Zuko punished himself for his crimes. No one punished Zuko. Western Philosophy has always demanded eye for an eye. While Eastern philosophy a person must live with the guilt of what he has done, and that alone is punishment.

Another good display would Huu and how he explained how everything is connected and how he rested under the giant tree like the Buddah.


----------



## Burke (Sep 13, 2011)

2 days later

oh hey guys whats up


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 13, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> That's a well written rebuttal. If Avatar were as "Un-Asian" as this fellow wrote than it would make you wonder what type of 'shrooms the founders of Racebending were on when they based their whole organization on how overtly Asian A:TLA seemed to be. Wasn't the original motto: "Aang can stay Asian and still save the world"?
> 
> Derek Kirk Kim wrote that "Avatar: The Last Airbender is unmistakably Asian. I can’t really see a way around that."
> 
> ...



That reminds me when I showed my friends in Japan the show.  They laughed at how the nation modeled after the Japanese (Fire Nation) wrote in Chinese, and asked if the writers knew if they made that mistake.  They also pointed out various other things they got wrong.  The show also bombed in the Asian countries it aired in, I should probably point out.  Then again, I don't see why Japan would care about some Amerianime when they have real anime that does everything better, but that's besides the point.  They said it was more or less what Hollywood movies think Asians are like.  Or in other words "it was created by two white guys" as other people said.

It seems people who actually live in the East don't care much for the show or really see it having much Asian culture.  I can see it to, the writing and style is so very American, from the dialog you get out of stupid one-liners like Sokka and stuff.  Everything about the show reeks of American kids cartoon.  Only it has a weeaboo twist by ripping off some anime (Miyazaki, Naruto, Dragonball, etc)  Katara herself pretty much was your typical 'girl power perfect female' America makes in a lot of its cartoons.  Crying out 'sexism' and 'femnism' to everyone.  You can't have Sokka and Katara in the show and still claim it has a good representation of Eastern culture.  The humor alone is typical Saturday Morning Spongebob.

I think the real racism is people who just lump 'Asian' in together.. as in Japan, China, and Korea are all the same so what's the difference.  Then again, that lets the writers get away with just saying "Uh.. well I'm sure SOME Asian culture does this, so let's throw it in".  Hodgepodges are convenient from a writing standpoint.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 13, 2011)

Avatar rips off Naruto, as though Naruto itself is original?

Lol'd.


----------



## Heloves (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm shocked to learn Azula wanted to look good for the boys


----------



## Stunna (Sep 13, 2011)

lol, no one posted for two days.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 13, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Avatar rips off Naruto, as though Naruto itself is original?
> 
> Lol'd.



It's well known Masashi Kishimoto was influenced by Akira Toriyama.  I'm not sure how that's related aside from you trying to divert attention from the fact Avatar did the same and trying to deny it out of fanboyism or something.


----------



## Heloves (Sep 13, 2011)

nothing to talk about till the new Av starts up again bro


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 13, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> It's well known Masashi Kishimoto was influenced by Akira Toriyama.  I'm not sure how that's related aside from you trying to divert attention from the fact Avatar did the same and trying to deny it out of fanboyism or something.



Every work is influenced by something else. I see no reason why you brought up Avatar's SUPPOSED drawing from some sources, but neglected to mention Naruto's until it was mentioned.

What exactly did Avatar "rip off" from Naruto? The child of destiny thing? That's not exclusively Naruto's; it's been around for a while. Fantastical, magical powers? Ability to manipulate things humans cannot? Oh yes, that's certainly Naruto's exclusive creation, I totally forgot. Or perhaps Aang being a young boy is a blatant carbon copy of Naruto being a young boy, despite Aang being younger and not in any way resembling Naruto himself, nor any of the characters resembling any from Naruto. Nor the plot. Nor the final product.


----------



## Jena (Sep 13, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> That reminds me when I showed my friends in Japan the show.  They laughed at how the nation modeled after the Japanese (Fire Nation) wrote in Chinese, and asked if the writers knew if they made that mistake.



How is the Fire Nation modeled after the Japanese? 
It always seemed like it was modeled after Chinese dynasties to me.
You could argue that the architecture and the clothing was more Japanese, but the construct of the political system felt more traditional Chinese than traditional Japanese.


----------



## Heloves (Sep 13, 2011)

Naruto turns yellow ...like a Super Saiyan would do ......if that isn't ripping off  I don't know what is


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 13, 2011)

I consider the Fire Nation a parallel of Japan due to the expansion and progressive technology when compared to the more rural and work-oriented Earth Kingdom/China.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 13, 2011)

Well this thread is pretty resilient. How many other shows that haven't aired new episodes in 3-4 years fare in this forum?

Also, Avatar does not "rip off". It pays homage to and takes influence from various Anime.


----------



## Heloves (Sep 13, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well this thread is pretty resilient. How many other shows that haven't aired new episodes in 3-4 years fare in this forum?
> 
> Also, Avatar does not "rip off". It pays homage to and takes influence from various Anime.



Digimon Digital Monsters is still alive bro


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Sep 13, 2011)

There is a new avatar season coming out? I haven't seen that series in years so I don't really know.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 13, 2011)

spaniardguitarist said:


> There is a new avatar season coming out? I haven't seen that series in years so I don't really know.



Well, welcome to the thread. There isn't a new season of Avatar the Last Airbender being made. It's a series set 70 years after that show.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 13, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Every work is influenced by something else. I see no reason why you brought up Avatar's SUPPOSED drawing from some sources, but neglected to mention Naruto's until it was mentioned.



Avatar's are more in the typical not-subtle American way of ripping off anime, while Naruto's is more thematics.  Pretty much all shounen jump writers say they're influenced by Toriyama; some more apparent than others.  America tends to do direct references rather than thematics.  For example, Appa rips off Catbus, blatantly.  Teen Titans did a blatent FLCL parody as well.  US shows tend to be more about apparent references, unless it's more of a gagcomedy shounen like Gintama, Bobobo, or Sket Dance.



> What exactly did Avatar "rip off" from Naruto?


It was in some commentary thing on the show, it said the Jet episode was influenced by Naruto or something or other.  I guess since it had a bunch of tree battles/running?  Other than that, I guess the whole 'hyper boy who uses wind lives in an Asian world where each country is based on a specific element who uses that element proficiently'.  Could maybe ask the creators for more specifics, just going off what the notes said.



			
				Jena said:
			
		

> How is the Fire Nation modeled after the Japanese?



What LB said, the whole FN invading EK is more or less a parallel of Japan and China.  FN is Japan, EK is China, WT is Inuit, and AT is Tibet.  Not to mention the names (which is another thing they got wrong.. Mai is pronounce 'My' not 'May'.  If it was to be pronounced that way, it would be written as either 'Mei' or 'May'.  Same with They didn't really pronounce a lot of the names correctly so that's kind of another knock to the culture thing... it actually felt like an amateur anime dub with the way they said the names very Westernized/incorrectly.


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## Stunna (Sep 13, 2011)

There is a strong difference between being influenced by something and ripping it off.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm trying to remember something so mind-bogglingly stupid that was said about this show several months ago in this very thread. Can anyone jog my memory for me?


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## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 13, 2011)

So being hyper, male, and using an element proficiently is grounds for calling Avatar a rip off of Naruto?


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## Heloves (Sep 13, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I'm trying to remember something so mind-bogglingly stupid that was said about this show several months ago in this very thread. Can anyone jog my memory for me?



I'mma guess and say this show ripped off Bleach?


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## Superstarseven (Sep 13, 2011)

Avatar totally ripped off Bleach, One Piece and remember that episode that just screamed Full Metal Alchemist?


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## Heloves (Sep 13, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Avatar totally ripped off Bleach, One Piece and remember that episode that just screamed Full Metal Alchemist?



damn bro....... that must have pissed you off


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 13, 2011)

The wind element aspect of Naruto's power was introduced during his training arc/Kakuzu + Hidan arc. The release for the beginning of that training arc chapter is dated October 18 on Manga Share, and October 21st on Manga Fox. Granted, all chapters up to that point were seemingly uploaded on that day, but if we go by that, we can infer that Naruto broght up that concept long after Avatar introduced Aang as an airbender. If anything, Naruto copied Avatar.


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## Heloves (Sep 13, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> The wind element aspect of Naruto's power was introduced during his training arc/Kakuzu + Hidan arc. The release for the beginning of that training arc chapter is dated October 18 on Manga Share, and October 21st on Manga Fox. Granted, all chapters up to that point were seemingly uploaded on that day, but if we go by that, we can infer that Naruto broght up that concept long after Avatar introduced Aang as an airbender. If anything, Naruto copied Avatar.



LB why do you gotta make it hard on yourself? just use the example I told you


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## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 13, 2011)

It's kind of sad to think that typing out a rather quick paragraph is "making it hard" on one's self.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 13, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> So being hyper, male, and using an element proficiently is grounds for calling Avatar a rip off of Naruto?



When the writers said they were influenced by it, then yes.  Unless you're going to go against what the show says, then by all means, feel free.  Though I'd say Aang was more based on Goku than Naruto personally.

I'm more surprised people would try to claim Avatar wasn't influenced by anime despite it being as obvious as day.

(And technically Rasengan was introduced in chapter 150)


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## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 13, 2011)

Please provide a link to where it confirms the writers said such. I never said I was denying that it wasn't influenced by anime, but that you're making it out to be a blatant rip off of Naruto. And the Rasengan isn't an element; if you're referencing his wind-infused one, then the training to acquire it was introduced in chapter 316.


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## Stunna (Sep 13, 2011)

Inspiration and plagiarism are two completely different things, and yet you use them interchangeably. Everyone knows it was influenced by anime, but that's not the same as ripping it off.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 13, 2011)

If the commentary was about the Jet episode being influenced by Naruto, Id only imagine it takes it from the numerous battles Naruto has of Ninjas fighting in the tress. 

Particularly,  the Genin vs Sound 4 arc.


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## Heloves (Sep 13, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> It's kind of sad to think that typing out a rather quick paragraph is "making it hard" on one's self.



Yeah I know  ........ but it makes life easier


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## Superstarseven (Sep 13, 2011)

Who in the world wrote or said that it wasn't influenced by Anime?
I don't recall any writer ever saying that Naruto was an influence. If you're citing those pop up info episodes of Avatar, I wouldn't take them as gospel. There is a clear Star Wars influence in _Jet _that was used in the Freedom Fighter's hideout due to Dave Filoni being such a huge SW fanboy. 

Goku was referenced in Nightmares & Daydreams but that was super obvious though.


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## Jena (Sep 13, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I'm trying to remember something so mind-bogglingly stupid that was said about this show several months ago in this very thread. Can anyone jog my memory for me?



Was it the thing where the crazy Zutarian said they wouldn't watch the new show because Kataang became canon?




Akimichi Juro said:


> What LB said, the whole FN invading EK is more or less a parallel of Japan and China.  FN is Japan, EK is China, WT is Inuit, and AT is Tibet.  Not to mention the names (which is another thing they got wrong.. Mai is pronounce 'My' not 'May'.  If it was to be pronounced that way, it would be written as either 'Mei' or 'May'.  Same with They didn't really pronounce a lot of the names correctly so that's kind of another knock to the culture thing... it actually felt like an amateur anime dub with the way they said the names very Westernized/incorrectly.


I see. 

I'm not going to contend anything else with you. I'm not asian and I'm not an expert on asian cultures, so I don't want to get started on an insane and unwinable argument.


I'd like to see where the creators referenced Naruto as an inspiration. I have the artbook and they mention several other anime that influenced them throughout the creation process, but they don't mention Naruto. Not saying that they couldn't have drawn inspiration from it, but it seems odd that they would cite other sources in the book but not that one.


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## Wan (Sep 13, 2011)

Ah.  I see the guy who called Avatar "extremely kiddy and immature" is back. *cracks knuckles*



Akimichi Juro said:


> Avatar's are more in the typical not-subtle American way of ripping off anime, while Naruto's is more thematics.  Pretty much all shounen jump writers say they're influenced by Toriyama; some more apparent than others.  America tends to do direct references rather than thematics.  For example, Appa rips off Catbus, blatantly.  Teen Titans did a blatent FLCL parody as well.  US shows tend to be more about apparent references, unless it's more of a gagcomedy shounen like Gintama, Bobobo, or Sket Dance.



Avatar draws inspiration from Catbus for Appa's design, sure, and the creators have openly admitted as much.  They cite Miyazaki as a major influence and part of what inspired them to make the show in the first place.  Appa's personality and purpose in the show is far different than the Catbus, though.



> It was in some commentary thing on the show, it said the Jet episode was influenced by Naruto or something or other.  I guess since it had a bunch of tree battles/running?  Other than that, I guess the whole 'hyper boy who uses wind lives in an Asian world where each country is based on a specific element who uses that element proficiently'.  Could maybe ask the creators for more specifics, just going off what the notes said.



"Jet" didn't have a DVD commentary, so as far as I can tell you're full of crap.

Stop presuming to know what Avatar was influenced by or "ripped off"; the creators have already detailed just what inspired them in various places such as the making-of documentary (which can be watched on Youtube), and another is the Art of The Animated Series book.  Miyazaki as mentioned was a big influence; other influences include FLCL and Cowboy Bebop.  The idea for the Water Tribes, which later evolved into the Four Nations, actually came from a documentary on Ernest Shackleton's expeditions into Antarctica that one of the creators (Mike Dimartino) had been watching at the time.  Out of that came the idea for a Fire Nation that was "trying to melt" the south pole, and it eventually formed in to the Four Nations.

Avatar's influences come from a number of places, not just anime.  To quote Bryan Konietzko from the art book, "We made a show out of everything we loved, pulling from our interests in Asian cultures and philosophies, traditional martial arts, yoga, anime, and Hong Kong cinema to create our own mythology".

And in all the material I've read I've never seen Naruto mentioned.  Akira Toriyama is never specifically mentioned as an influence either. 



> What LB said, the whole FN invading EK is more or less a parallel of Japan and China.  FN is Japan, EK is China, WT is Inuit, and AT is Tibet.  Not to mention the names (which is another thing they got wrong.. Mai is pronounce 'My' not 'May'.  If it was to be pronounced that way, it would be written as either 'Mei' or 'May'.  Same with They didn't really pronounce a lot of the names correctly so that's kind of another knock to the culture thing... it actually felt like an amateur anime dub with the way they said the names very Westernized/incorrectly.



The Fire Nation may be inspired by imperial aspects of both Japan and China, but that's not to say it's meant to _be_ Japan.  It's a fictional world inspired by our world but not parallel to it.



Akimichi Juro said:


> When the writers said they were influenced by it, then yes.  Unless you're going to go against what the show says, then by all means, feel free.  Though I'd say Aang was more based on Goku than Naruto personally.



Except the show's writers have never said they were influenced or inspired by Naruto.



> I'm more surprised people would try to claim Avatar wasn't influenced by anime despite it being as obvious as day.



...no one's saying that.  The point of contention is that you listed Naruto as an influence, when it's not.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 13, 2011)

Oman said:


> Ah.  I see the guy who called Avatar "extremely kiddy and immature" is back. *cracks knuckles*



Boom! That was the mind-bogglingly stupid thing.
Can't believe I forgot that.


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## Terra Branford (Sep 13, 2011)

Avatar ripped off Naruto? 

What?


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 14, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> Please provide a link to where it confirms the writers said such. I never said I was denying that it wasn't influenced by anime, but that you're making it out to be a blatant rip off of Naruto. And the Rasengan isn't an element; if you're referencing his wind-infused one, then the training to acquire it was introduced in chapter 316.



It was that Jet thing Superstarseven mentioned. 

Also, Rasengan showed wind characteristics even back then.. lots of swirling air and blowing people back... it looked a bit like Aang's little air ball, actually.



			
				Oman said:
			
		

> Avatar draws inspiration from Catbus for Appa's design, sure, and the  creators have openly admitted as much.  They cite Miyazaki as a major  influence and part of what inspired them to make the show in the first  place.  Appa's personality and purpose in the show is far different than  the Catbus, though.



But it's still based on Catbus, no? When a big character in your show is based off another one, it's not very original.


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## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> It was that Jet thing Superstarseven mentioned.



Superstarseven never mentioned anything about Jet, you did.  And you still haven't provided a quote or a source, and I know for a fact that "Jet" never had a DVD commentary in the first place.  As far as I'm concerned you're just pulling this out of your ass.



> But it's still based on Catbus, no? When a big character in your show is based off another one, it's not very original.



Ok...a single character's design was inspired by a famous Japanese animator's design.  Surely that means Avatar ripped off anime in general wholesale!

And since you can't see, I should tell you I'm rolling my eyes.


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## Jena (Sep 14, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> But it's still based on Catbus, no? When a big character in your show is based off another one, it's not very original.





Most characters (arguably all) characters in fiction are based on or inspired by or at least similar to an existing character.


The design is _similar_ but not _exactly alike_.


*Spoiler*: _Catbus_ 









*Spoiler*: _Appa_ 








Similarities: more legs than normal, large, furry, fast, hybrid
Differences: number of legs, one is cat the other is a bison, one can speak one can't, one is an animal/animal hybrid and one is an animal/machine hybrid

At least the creators acknowledged it as a source.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 14, 2011)

Bryan has come up with hundreds of animal designs on the show, it's not as if he's incapable of coming up with something original. I don't see the problem with paying tribute to the Catbus' 12-legged design.

To be fair Oman, I did mention _Jet_ but I mentioned that his hideout was inspired by the Ewok village in Return Of The Jedi, courtesy of Dave Filoni who was hired to helm _The Clone Wars _. I believe AJ is talking about those pop-up info episodes of Avatar that aired on Nicktoons. I responded that no one should take those as gospel. The best evidence would be the one were "Zuko was originally Katara's love interest". That was never mentioned in interviews, commentary on the DVD, text in the Artbook, or the documentary included in the Season 1 Boxset reissue--which I have provided a link below my signature pic.


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## Terra Branford (Sep 14, 2011)

> But it's still based on Catbus, no? When a big character in your show is based off another one, *it's not very original.*


Um...no, wrong. They are not similar enough to be even remotely unoriginal.


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## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

I should point out that the Catbus is not the only inspiration for Appa.  Along with that, the creators have said they were inspired by sea manatees.


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## Noah (Sep 14, 2011)

We're forgetting a point that, by far, is the most important point when comparing Catbus and Appa.

One is adorable and would make a new friend/pet. The other is ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY TERRIFYING. Eff that catbus, seriously. If I ever across one, I wouldn't stop firing my shotgun until the trigger literally broke off or I died from exhaustion.

No way. Get that shit out of here. :terrified


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 14, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Bryan has come up with hundreds of animal designs on the show, it's not as if he's incapable of coming up with something original. I don't see the problem with paying tribute to the Catbus' 12-legged design.



I only recall animals that were hybrids of other animals... like turtle ducks (which raises the question how they know what a turtle duck is if seperate animals like turtles and ducks don't exist in their world (or are really rare.. like when they were confused what a 'bear' was), but that's probably getting into the 'looking too deep in a kid's show' territory.  



> I believe AJ is talking about those pop-up info episodes of Avatar that aired on Nicktoons. I responded that no one should take those as gospel. The best evidence would be the one were "Zuko was originally Katara's love interest". That was never mentioned in interviews, commentary on the DVD, text in the Artbook, or the documentary included in the Season 1 Boxset reissue--which I have provided a link below my signature pic.


Yeah, those things.  Though I don't see why we shouldn't believe them.  It's not as if the writers didn't know about the pairing anyway, since they kind of admitted they purposely trolled the Zutara shippers in season 3.  They could have been trolling them with that comment as well.  Either they're trolls or they're liars, either way, it's not a very good way to build credibility I suppose.


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## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> I only recall animals that were hybrids of other animals... like turtle ducks (which raises the question how they know what a turtle duck is if seperate animals like turtles and ducks don't exist in their world (or are really rare.. like when they were confused what a 'bear' was), but that's probably getting into the 'looking too deep in a kid's show' territory.



The show poked fun at itself for the hybrid animals.

"No, it just says...bear..."

"This place is weird."

It was more of a running joke really.



> Yeah, those things.  Though I don't see why we shouldn't believe them.  It's not as if the writers didn't know about the pairing anyway, since they kind of admitted they purposely trolled the Zutara shippers in season 3.  They could have been trolling them with that comment as well.  It's a bit hard to trust writers when they do things like that.  Either they're trolls or they're liars, either way, it's not very good to build credibility.



We don't even know if the "pop-up" commentaries were made by anyone involved in the actual show (the pop-ups were made well after the show had ended), so the question is rather why _should_ we believe them.  In any case, one fight scene bearing similarity to Naruto fight scenes does not indicate that Avatar ripped off Naruto in general, which is what you first said.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 14, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Avatar's are more in the typical  not-subtle American way of ripping off anime, while Naruto's is more  thematics.  Pretty much all shounen jump writers say they're influenced  by Toriyama; some more apparent than others.  America tends to do direct  references rather than thematics.  For example, Appa rips off Catbus,  blatantly.  Teen Titans did a blatent FLCL parody as well.  US shows  tend to be more about apparent references, unless it's more of a  gagcomedy shounen like Gintama, Bobobo, or Sket Dance.
> 
> It was in some commentary thing on the show, it said the Jet episode was  influenced by Naruto or something or other.  I guess since it had a  bunch of tree battles/running?  Other than that, I guess the whole  'hyper boy who uses wind lives in an Asian world where each country is  based on a specific element who uses that element proficiently'.  Could  maybe ask the creators for more specifics, just going off what the notes  said.
> 
> ...


 I give this troll a C+ for...Something

 And when does english spelling affect the pronunciation in another language?

 "May" can be romanized as Mai though...


Superstarseven said:


> Who in the world wrote or said that it wasn't influenced by Anime?
> I don't recall any writer ever saying that Naruto was an influence. If  you're citing those pop up info episodes of Avatar, I wouldn't take them  as gospel. There is a clear Star Wars influence in _Jet _that was used in the Freedom Fighter's hideout due to Dave Filoni being such a huge SW fanboy.
> 
> Goku was referenced in Nightmares & Daydreams but that was super obvious though.


And going by AJ's logic, DragonBall rips off of the Chinese epic of Journey to the West. So...Back to square one! Trololololo!

Well, I suppose we should thank you for riling us up and getting us active. But better trolls have tried


----------



## Glued (Sep 14, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> I give this troll a C+ for...Something
> 
> And when does english spelling affect the pronunciation in another language?
> 
> ...



Not just journey to the west.

Goku is apparently an alien from outerspace with skills and abilities beyond mortal men. He is raised by a human and is taught human values. He grows to become Earth's champion. Finally, he goes "Super."

If you guys are looking for 100% originality, you won't find unless you go thousands of years into the past.

I once used to write Warcraft fanfiction. Then I read some of Richard Knaack's work. Even though I had never read Knaack's work before I realized there were striking similarities. A blind pacifist marrying a female warrior. An intelligent ogre with only one hand.

Even though I had never read Knaack's work before, I had replicated his ideas.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 14, 2011)

I agree that nearly every fictional series made today will almost inevitably display some similarities to other fictional stories, and this phenomenon occurs because the creators of such works of fiction are inspired by stories to which they are exposed during their life. For example, many modern authors of medieval fantasy cite J.R.R. Tolkien as an inspiration for their own works, Tolkien himself was inspired by Norse and Germanic mythology and folklore, and many authors of _shonen_ manga have been inspired by Akira Toriyama.

It is not automatically a negative thing that some stories are similar to each other, such as the similarities between the _Wheel of Time_ and _Sword of Truth_ fantasy series, provided that the stories are sufficiently different from each other so that each feel unique, but if the similarities between two different stories are much stronger, such as those between _Bleach_ and _Yu Yu Hakusho,_ there could be evidence for accusing one author of copying the other (although I am thoroughly enjoying _Bleach_ currently, so its similarities to _YYH_ do not bother me very much).

Therefore, while _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ does have similarities to other stories, I do not believe that those similarities detract from its awesomeness nor my enjoyment of it.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 14, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> And when does english spelling affect the pronunciation in another language?



Since always.  That's the way it's supposed to be romanized and pronounced.  This isn't really up to interpretation.

Pointing out the cultural messups isn't trolling, unless your definition of trolling is "posting something I don't like".



Oman said:


> It was more of a running joke really.



More like a plothole.



> We don't even know if the "pop-up" commentaries were made by  anyone involved in the actual show (the pop-ups were made well after the  show had ended), so the question is rather why _should_ we believe them


I don't see why not, other than you disagree with them and don't want  them to be true.  I don't see why they'd just make up stuff for the show  for the heck of it.



> In any case, one fight scene bearing similarity to Naruto fight  scenes does not indicate that Avatar ripped off Naruto in general, which  is what you first said.


We don't really know how deep that influence runs, though.  It's established it's there, but short of the writers telling us every specific detail, we can only guess by drawing similarities and speculate.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 14, 2011)

>Creates original character
>Draws from cultures and their influences/styles
>Unable to pronounce character's name however the fuck you want

I learned something today.


----------



## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Since always.  That's the way it's supposed to be romanized and pronounced.  This isn't really up to interpretation.
> 
> Pointing out the cultural messups isn't trolling, unless your definition of trolling is "posting something I don't like".



Most of the names in Avatar don't exist in any language in the first place, so they're not shooting for accurately pronounced names anyways.



> More like a plothole.



What in the world do random animal names have to do with the plot? 



> I don't see why not, other than you disagree with them and don't want  them to be true.  I don't see why they'd just make up stuff for the show  for the heck of it.



Nick exec:  We need some gimmick for our Avatar marathons.

Nicktoons network producer:  I know!  Let's make up some random details iand put them in pop-ups!

Nick exec: Great! Get to it.

Makes about as much sense as other stuff Nickelodeon does.



> We don't really know how deep that influence runs, though.  It's established it's there, but short of the writers telling us every specific detail, we can only guess by drawing similarities and speculate.



The writers _have_ given us very specific details on the influences of Avatar, and Naruto isn't one of them. No need to speculate.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 14, 2011)

How the hell are hybrid animals a plothole?
Dude, you come off as a bit of a troll. Let's be honest.
"Extremely kiddy and immature". Remember that little gem? That describes Yo Gabba Gabba not a critically acclaimed show like Avatar.
I think it's fair to pick apart an opinion when it's so off the mark like that.

Also to add on to what Oman said about Nick. I remember the original promo for the second season finale. It was a static image, made famous by Zutarians, of Katara touching Zuko's scar and a voiceover was hinting at a possible romantic connection. So yeah, Nickelodeon can do whatever they want.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 14, 2011)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> >Creates original character
> >Draws from cultures and their influences/styles
> >Unable to pronounce character's name however the fuck you want
> 
> I learned something today.




The original debate was how it mishandled Chinese/Japanese/whatever  culture and isn't as accurate as fans claim.  If you want to defend them  pronouncing it however they want, then you can't defend them for  being authentic to the an Asian culture at the same time.  It's a one way  street.  



Oman said:


> Most of the names in Avatar don't exist in any language in the first place, so they're not shooting for accurately pronounced names anyways.



They kind of do, actually.  You can easily write them out in a variety of languages



> What in the world do random animal names have to do with the plot?


Just a worldbuilding one.  They sacrificed consistency for a joke.  They don't know what a 'bear' is but things that are half-bear.  They probably just called them by their real names to make it easy on the kids rather than make up names, but that would have been better to establish the concept.



> Nick exec:  We need some gimmick for our Avatar marathons.
> 
> Nicktoons network producer:  I know!  Let's make up some random details in put them in pop-ups!
> 
> ...


Maybe, but then you might as well take anything in the show with a grain of salt if Nick Execs have that much power.



> The writers _have_ given us very specific details on the influences of Avatar, and Naruto isn't one of them. No need to speculate.


For each episode, each character, and each scene? They've made some broad strokes, but not in detail like the popup thing did.



Superstarseven said:


> Dude, you come off as a bit of a troll. Let's be honest.



Because I disagree with you? Weren't you the one calling Chinese people who said the culture  was messed up stupid?  I mean, what would Chinese people know about  their own culture as opposed to an Avatar fan, right? Sounds like you would call anyone who disagreed with you 'stupid' or 'a troll'.  That's worse than the people who think they know Japanese culture because they watch anime, because at least anime is made in Japan by Japanese people.. Avatar was by two white guys in California.  Using it as a reference for Chinese culture isn't a good idea.



> "Extremely kiddy and immature". Remember that little gem? That  describes Yo Gabba Gabba not a critically acclaimed show like Avatar.
> I think it's fair to pick apart an opinion when it's so off the mark like that.


Yo Gabba Gabba is a critically acclaimed show as well and won awards as well.  Either they both are or they both aren't.



> Also to add on to what Oman said about Nick. I remember the  original promo for the second season finale. It was a static image, made  famous by Zutarians, of Katara touching Zuko's scar and a voiceover was  hinting at a possible romantic connection. So yeah, Nickelodeon can do  whatever they want.


The writers did that as well, I don't see why it's so special.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 14, 2011)

I didn't refer to any Chinese people as stupid. Please find the quote.
Yo Gabba Gabba is critically acclaimed by stoners. Not a huge surprise that it's popular on college campuses I wouldn't let my kids watch that garbage. There's nothing that any toddler can learn from a vomited up rainbow with dialogue.
Avatar is not "extremely kiddy and immature". Please.


----------



## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> They kind of do, actually.  You can easily write them out in a variety of languages.



Sure...but they're not still not supposed to be real-world names.



> Just a worldbuilding one.  They sacrificed consistency for a joke.  They don't know what a 'bear' is but things that are half-bear.  They probably just called them by their real names to make it easy on the kids rather than make up names, but that would have been better to establish the concept.



First of all, plot isn't the same thing as world building.  Secondly, it's just _names_.  Not a big deal.  Might as well complain that they're all speaking English when English shouldn't exist in their world...



> Maybe, but then you might as well take anything in the show with a grain of salt if Nick Execs have that much power.



Uh, no.  Only stuff we don't have sources for otherwise.  We know that stuff like the art book, DVD commentaries, and the making-of documentary come straight from the creators and writers.



> For each episode, each character, and each scene? They've made some broad strokes, but not in detail like the popup thing did.



Actually, the art book does go episode-by-episode and give detail about how each character was created.  For example, Zhao was inspired by the villain in "The Patriot" played by Jason Isaacs.  As luck would have it, they were able to cast Jason Isaacs as the voice of Zhao as well.



> Yo Gabba Gabba is a critically acclaimed show as well and won awards as well.  Either they both are or they both aren't.



Winning awards doesn't indicate that it is mature or non-kiddy, just that it's high quality.  A show like Yo Gabba Gabba is well regarded because it _is_ kiddy, in a quality way.  Avatar is well regarded for the ways that it is mature with its storytelling and character development, among other things.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 14, 2011)

I highly doubt a flying six-legged bison is also authentic to chinese culture, nor bending elements.

There's no reason for them to draw from the source and be unable to modify some as they see fit. It's their original work, not meant to be 100% accurate.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 14, 2011)

I've read some absolutely beautifully written reviews of Avatar that have actually given me a much deeper insight into the show itself. Someone writing about Yo Gabba Gabba is more like, "Holy fu#%. Have you seen this s#*t? It's fu@king insane." Not quite on the same level.

Seriously though, this is fun.  I enjoy a little activity here.


----------



## Friday (Sep 14, 2011)

Why are we comparing Avatar to animes ;_;

No, just no.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 14, 2011)

Blame Akimichi Juro.


----------



## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Seriously though, this is fun.  I enjoy a little activity here.



Yes, actually, it is kind of enjoyable.  If AJ's intention is to accuse Avatar of faults that he _knows_ Avatar doesn't have just to troll us, then congratulations.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 14, 2011)

Oman said:


> Yes, actually, it is kind of enjoyable.  If AJ's intention is to accuse Avatar of faults that he _knows_ Avatar doesn't have just to troll us, then congratulations.



DracoStorm was pretty unrelenting too. There was a whole thread a while back on an opinion she had regarding comic books. Bit of Japanophile, she was.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 14, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Since always.  That's the way it's supposed to be romanized and pronounced.  This isn't really up to interpretation.
> 
> Pointing out the cultural messups isn't trolling, unless your definition of trolling is "posting something I don't like".


Oh? Well then, go on and ask a Chinese person who doesn't know a lick of English to spell it in English.

Oh wait, you can't.

Romanization systems like Wade-Giles were designed AROUND the language, not the other way around.
And while Wade-Giles is a widely accepted system of romanizing Chinese, it doesn't mean it's the absolute standard. 

What you argue is proper to THAT system. 

It does not make a work wrong to the culture it draws from for not using an established transliteration system.

It does make it deviant from the usual standards, but not erroneous.

If you're truly so anal in this, then you should argue that it should be written as Měi, with all the accent marks.

So by your own logic, you committed a mistake of the same level.

And by your reasons, you also failed to do your homework.

You're not a troll for pointing things out that I dislike, you're a troll for not giving any compelling arguments as to why Avatar is so deficient in story, and representing cultural influences. All I hear are tiny little flimsy statements from you with no real depth or reasons. And even those things that you argue that supposedly makes Avatar an inferior series have no weighty bearing WITHIN the canon, OR as a solid critique.

Yes, there's a lot of Chinese words used in this series. But in case you haven't noticed, that's not the only language IN Avatar. Is Azula a Chinese word? Is SMELLERBEE a Chinese word? Do you think a Chinese person even CARES? Much less the culture, which you seem to make out as some individual that's been an unfortunate victim of this show.

So.

There.


----------



## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

^^Rekky wins.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 14, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I didn't refer to any Chinese people as stupid. Please find the quote.



That was Jena, my mistake, but that article you posted that everyone was calling stupid and such.  It's still pretty silly.



> Yo Gabba Gabba is critically acclaimed by stoners. Not a huge  surprise that it's popular on college campuses I wouldn't let my kids  watch that garbage. There's nothing that any toddler can learn from a  vomited up rainbow with dialogue.  Avatar is not "extremely kiddy and  immature". Please.


So despite getting upset when someone says a kid's show is for kids, you  yourself have no problem saying a show is only for stoners (despite the  Emmys and Oscars not being made up of stoners, last I checked.  Nor all  those Christain and Kid's Review sites that praised YGG)  The only  difference is you like one and not the other.  That's called hypocrisy.



Oman said:


> Sure...but they're not still not supposed to be real-world names.



Mai is a fairly common Japanese name.  It'd be like me making a character named Bill, but saying "No, actually, it's pronounced 'Francis'"  Given all the claims about culture, and the fact they explain what their names mean in Chinese/Japanese stuff, it seems like they meant it to be related to those cultures.



> Might as well complain that they're all speaking English when English shouldn't exist in their world...


That'd be interesting.  If they'd hire Chinese people and voice the show entirely in Chinese with English subtitles like a sub.



> Actually, the art book does go episode-by-episode and give detail about how each character was created.  For example, Zhao was inspired by the villain in "The Patriot" played by Jason Isaacs.  As luck would have it, they were able to cast Jason Isaacs as the voice of Zhao as well.


I doubt they can fit every single thing in it, though, or just forgot things.  Or maybe were under some contract not to promote a cross-network show.  Who knows.



> Winning awards doesn't indicate that it is mature or non-kiddy, just  that it's high quality.  A show like Yo Gabba Gabba is well regarded  because it _is_ kiddy, in a quality way.  Avatar is well regarded  for the ways that it is mature with its storytelling and character  development, among other things.


Then he shouldn't use 'critically acclaimed' as a defense when talking about the show, especially when the show he's trashing can make the same claim.



			
				LegendaryBeauty said:
			
		

> It's their original work, not meant to be 100% accurate.



Are you saying then it's not that accurate to Asian culture then?



			
				Oman said:
			
		

> If AJ's intention is to accuse Avatar of faults that he _knows_ Avatar doesn't have just to troll us, then congratulations.



Just because you don't want to accept them doesn't mean it doesn't have them. Apparently Legendary Beauty just admitted it had that fault of not being accurate.



			
				ReikaiDemon said:
			
		

> If you're truly so anal in this, then you should argue that it should be written as Měi, with all the accent marks.



Yes, it should.  Thank you for agreeing with me on that.



> You're not a troll for pointing things out that I dislike, you're a  troll for not giving any compelling arguments as to why Avatar is so  deficient in story, and representing cultural influences. All I hear are  tiny little flimsy statements from you with no real depth or reasons.  And even those things that you argue that supposedly makes Avatar an  inferior series have no weighty bearing WITHIN the canon, OR as a solid  critique.


All I did was point out that yes, the show is not that accurate when it comes to Chinese culture, and yes, the show is very American at it's core, agreeing with that post Superstarseven posted.  Unfortunately it seems the very idea Avatar could have a single flaw puts  you into such an unfathomable rage that you refuse to accept that despite people explaining it to you.



> Yes, there's a lot of Chinese words used in this series. But in case you  haven't noticed, that's not the only language IN Avatar. Is Azula a  Chinese word? Is SMELLERBEE a Chinese word? Do you think a Chinese  person even CARES? Much less the culture, which you seem to make out as  some individual that's been an unfortunate victim of this show.


Apparently that link Superstarseven said implies at least one Chinese person does care, yes.  China as a whole? No, since the show bombed there (and in Japan), and most Asians don't like it, but still, they exist.

It's not as if Killer B is a Japanese word, but hey, it's in Naruto.  Doesn't mean they don't pronounce their actual Japanese name properly, though.  This just sounds like a little Catch 22 you're trying to pull.  "It's totally accurate and obviously Chinese, but when it's not that doesn't count against it at all, so it's 100% perfect and not American in the slightest"

Even Ben Grimm pointed out various things American about the show.


----------



## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Mai is a fairly common Japanese name.  It'd be like me making a character named Bill, but saying "No, actually, it's pronounced 'Francis'"  Given all the claims about culture, and the fact they explain what their names mean in Chinese/Japanese stuff, it seems like they meant it to be related to those cultures.



Um.  No it's not.  It's more like naming a character Bill and pronouncing it "Boll".  It's not how it would be pronounced in Japanese but since the show doesn't _try_ to be a perfect representation of Chinese/Japanese culture -- it is in fact a fictional world, after all -- it doesn't matter.



> That'd be interesting.  If they'd hire Chinese people and voice the show entirely in Chinese with English subtitles like a sub.



Well you seemed to have missed the point entirely.  It would be inane to complain about the language not being Chinese or Japanese, so it's inane to criticize the pronunciation of the names.



> I doubt they can fit every single thing in it, though, or just forgot things.  Or maybe were under some contract not to promote a cross-network show.  Who knows.



What we do know is that in the plethora of behind-the-scenes material from the creators and writers -- numerous DVD commentarys and behind-the scenes features, 184 page art book, half-hour long "making of" documentary, etc. -- never once is Naruto mentioned.  Not once. When in all of that your only evidence is a single pop-up the authority of which is shaky at best, we can conclude Naruto wasn't much of an influence at all.  Maybe for the one fight scene, and even that's doubtful.  You don't have a leg to stand on here.



> Then he shouldn't use 'critically acclaimed' as a defense when talking about the show, especially when the show he's trashing can make the same claim.



Well yeah, just saying that something is "critically acclaimed" is never a good defense of the specific qualities of a work of fiction.  Saying something is critically acclaimed specific things _is_ a good defense of those specific qualities.  Avatar happens to be critically acclaimed for its intelligent and mature storytelling and character development.



> Just because you don't want to accept them doesn't mean it doesn't have them. Apparently Legendary Beauty just admitted it had that fault of not being accurate.



Wow, you just have to twist people's words to make an argument, don't you?  First I wouldn't call a lack of 100% accuracy a fault anyways, and I don't think LB would either.  As I've said over and over, Avatar is a fictional world _inspired_ by Asian culture but not a _mirror_ of it.  What elements it does take it usually represents well.

Secondly, I wasn't just referring to cultural accuracy.  I was referring to...just about every criticism you've ever brought against Avatar, really.  Ripping off mediocre manga like Naruto, lacking character development, not addressing death, not having good fight scenes, being "kiddy and immature", etc.


----------



## Jena (Sep 14, 2011)

> I didn't refer to any Chinese people as stupid. Please find the quote.





Akimichi Juro said:


> That was Jena, my mistake, but that article you posted that everyone was calling stupid and such.  It's still pretty silly.



*What?!*

I never said that Chinese people were stupid! The _only_ thing I said was that I thought the Fire Nation seemed more Chinese, and then after you contested that, I said that I wasn't an expert in Asian cultures so you were probably right.



Jena said:


> How is the Fire Nation modeled after the Japanese?
> It always seemed like it was modeled after Chinese dynasties to me.
> You could argue that the architecture and the clothing was more Japanese, but the construct of the political system felt more traditional Chinese than traditional Japanese.





Jena said:


> I see.
> 
> I'm not going to contend anything else with you. I'm not asian and I'm not an expert on asian cultures, so I don't want to get started on an insane and unwinable argument.
> 
> ...



Like seriously, wtf. Don't put words in my mouth.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 14, 2011)




----------



## Noah (Sep 14, 2011)

Seconded. I'm enjoying the activity in the thread, but we're grasping at straws now.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 14, 2011)

Saying that Avatar was "extremely kiddy and immature" was not stating what the show actually was. It was an absolute complete dismissal of the program. That would more describe a show for toddlers which is why I brought up YGG. You might as well have said that it's simply not worth anyone's time. That's completely false. 
No one above the age of 25 is getting into Avatar because it's a tripfest, can't say the same for YGG

But listen, I'm gonna follow Jove on this because I've already spent too much time on this and I'm not going to like the show any less so what's the point?


----------



## Wan (Sep 14, 2011)

Noah said:


> Seconded. I'm enjoying the activity in the thread, but we're grasping at straws now.



Clarification:  Akimichi Juro's grasping at straws.  Really any criticism he brings against Avatar has been grasping at straws.  There are a few legitimate criticisms one can bring against the show...he's never mentioned one.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 14, 2011)

Of course he has. Hybrid animals are plotholes!


----------



## Noah (Sep 15, 2011)

Oman said:


> Clarification:  Akimichi Juro's grasping at straws.  Really any criticism he brings against Avatar has been grasping at straws.  There are a few legitimate criticisms one can bring against the show...he's never mentioned one.



Well, yes. I meant 'we' as in 'the collective opposing counsel'. By saying we, I feel like I'm included in things, and that makes me happy.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 15, 2011)

Oman said:


> Um.  No it's not.  It's more like naming a character Bill and pronouncing it "Boll".  It's not how it would be pronounced in Japanese but since the show doesn't _try_ to be a perfect representation of Chinese/Japanese culture -- it is in fact a fictional world, after all -- it doesn't matter.



So it's not a good/accurate representation of Asian culture then.



> Well you seemed to have missed the point entirely.  It would be inane to complain about the language not being Chinese or Japanese, so it's inane to criticize the pronunciation of the names.


So it's not a good/accurate representation of Asian culture then.



> What we do know is that in the plethora of behind-the-scenes material  from the creators and writers -- numerous DVD commentarys and behind-the  scenes features, 184 page art book, half-hour long "making of"  documentary, etc. -- never once is Naruto mentioned.  Not once. When in  all of that your only evidence is a single pop-up the authority of which  is shaky at best, we can conclude Naruto wasn't much of an influence at  all.  Maybe for the one fight scene, and even that's doubtful.  You  don't have a leg to stand on here.


It's only shaky because it says something you don't like.  That pop-up, as much as you try to discredit it, has more merit and credibility than anything you or anyone else here say, so we must take it as it is.  Now, if you can find an example where it's countered, then that's a different story.



> Secondly, I wasn't just referring to cultural accuracy.  I was referring to...just about every criticism you've ever brought against Avatar, really.  Ripping off mediocre manga like Naruto, lacking character development, not addressing death, not having good fight scenes, being "kiddy and immature", etc.


Eh? I've only been talking about the way it feels more American than Asian because of that post Superstarseven posted everyone called stupid.



Jena said:


> I never said that Chinese people were stupid! The _only_  thing I said was that I thought the Fire Nation seemed more Chinese,  and then after you contested that, I said that I wasn't an expert in  Asian cultures so you were probably right.





I mean that quote.  You said he/she was an idiot for thinking it wasn't  very Asian.  I was agreeing with what he said about the show.  They are  actually Chinese, so I would value their word more than a fan of the  show who puts it on an infallible pedestal, to be honest.  Just like I value the opinions of my actual Japanese friends over people here who say otherwise.  Given then, you know, actually have lived in those countries their whole lives rather than just learned everything from a cartoon show for kids.



			
				Superstarseven said:
			
		

> No one above the age of 25 is getting into Avatar because it's a tripfest, can't say the same for YGG



Nice generalization.  Again, you seem to have no problem saying them, but get super angry when anyone else hints at something similar with Avatar.  You're so dismissive of other shows, yet can't take even the slightest hint of criticism against Avatar.  That's strikes me as you being pretty insecure about your enjoyment of it, and maybe you don't like it as well as you think you do, and seeing other people poke at it threatens your own view of it.


----------



## Wan (Sep 15, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> So it's not a good/accurate representation of Asian culture then.



If you're expecting a perfect, parallel representation of Asian culture and societies, then no, it's not accurate.  If you're expecting it for what it is -- a fictional world made by western writers but inspired by eastern culture, philosophy, and art -- then it's excellent.  I mean, what's _better?_ (that isn't from the east itself)



> It's only shaky because it says something you don't like.  That pop-up, as much as you try to discredit it, has more merit and credibility than anything you or anyone else here say, so we must take it as it is.  Now, if you can find an example where it's countered, then that's a different story.



No, it's shaky because it has no credibility given to it by the creators and writers.  We have no idea who wrote it.  The art book, episode commentaries, and making-of documentary sure as hell have a lot more credibility than it does.  "Taking the pop-up for what it is" only leads to a single fight scene being influenced by Naruto.  Not fighting in general, not the world-building, not the characters, not the magic system, etc.

Naruto's influence on Avatar is miniscule at best and nonexistent at worst.  Period.  No room at all to say Avatar ripped off Naruto.



> Eh? I've only been talking about the way it feels more American than Asian because of that post Superstarseven posted everyone called stupid.



 I'm talking about your activity on NF talking about Avatar in general.  Or have you forgotten about even the other thread you're participating in right now?

You know what, I think I've figured you out.  Misled analysis?  Can't understand implied statements?  You're like an evil, unintelligent DemonDragonJ.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 15, 2011)

Oman said:


> If you're expecting a perfect, parallel representation of Asian culture and societies, then no, it's not accurate.


 Given the way people talk, you'd think it was, but that was whole point so I guess that ends that.



> If you're expecting it for what it is -- a fictional world made by western writers but inspired by eastern culture, philosophy, and art -- then it's excellent.  I mean, what's _better?_ (that isn't from the east itself)


 Better is so relative.  A submarine made of a bread may be the best underwater craft made out of food, but it's still not good.  There's a good reason the show bombed in Asia.



> No, it's shaky because it has no credibility given to it by the creators and writers.  We have no idea who wrote it.


 What makes you say the writers didn't? If they wrote for those ads, then technically anyone is a writer for the show.  Just like those comics or whatever were written by new people, but must be considered canon or whatever.  Same thing with the stuff in the Nick website.



> I'm talking about your activity on NF talking about Avatar in general.  Or have you forgotten about even the other thread you're participating in right now?


I like to keep threads separate, personally.


----------



## Wan (Sep 15, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Better is so relative.  A submarine made of a bread may be the best underwater craft made out of food, but it's still not good.  There's a good reason the show bombed in Asia.



Bad dubbing? 



> What makes you say the writers didn't?



Work on reading comprehension, bub.  I said we have no idea if the writers made them, and that's what makes it shaky.  If I said with certainty that the writers did _not_ write them, that would make them have no authority at all.

And the point remains, though you seem to be dodging it (like others).  Naruto's influence on Avatar was miniscule to nonexistent.  In no way did Avatar rip off Naruto.

Edit:



> If they wrote for those ads, then technically anyone is a writer for the show. Just like those comics or whatever were written by new people, but must be considered canon or whatever. Same thing with the stuff in the Nick website.



Except we're not talking about an issue of _canon_.  We're talking about how the show was made.  A random nobody hired for the pop-ups would have no authority to speak on that matter.  Maybe they just watched the episode and thought "Hey! This is similar to Naruto!" and decided to comment on it.

As for the Nick website, IIRC the writers actually used the flash website to put a lot of details on the show that they didn't have room for during the actual episodes, like Combustion Man losing his arm and leg when he first discovered his powers.  That part of the site was used as a source for the Avatar wiki; unfortunately it's long since been taken down.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 15, 2011)

Are you really using Avatar's ratings in Japan as proof?

That reeks of Japanophile.

Nickelodean Japan was a languishing channel, it died DURING Avatar's airing in Japan.

No shit it gets crap ratings on a channel with few viewers, and no shit it dies with the channel there.

And what bearing does this have at all on the show and people's enjoyment of it?

And why would the opinions of the Japanese viewership be a stronger point in any argument against the show?


----------



## Jena (Sep 15, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> I mean that quote.  You said he/she was an idiot for thinking it wasn't  very Asian.  I was agreeing with what he said about the show.  They are  actually Chinese, so I would value their word more than a fan of the  show who puts it on an infallible pedestal, to be honest.  Just like I value the opinions of my actual Japanese friends over people here who say otherwise.  Given then, you know, actually have lived in those countries their whole lives rather than just learned everything from a cartoon show for kids.



I said they were stupid because they had a knee-jerk reaction to Avatar and failed to give concrete reasons why they thought it was inaccurate. You can't just go around saying that certain things are wrong and then not say why they're wrong. Then it just sounds like you're talking out of your ass.

It'd be like if I said that Family Guy was a poor representation of American Culture. And then only thing I said was, "Well because we don't talk like that, that's why." If someone called me an idiot, they're saying that _I'm_ stupid, not necessarily that my idea doesn't have merit.  

So, again, *stop putting words in my mouth*. I'm one the few people in here who is actually reading everything you're posting and am interested in your perspective.  
Although I'm quickly believing that you just want arguments, not actual debates.

EDIT: Nice snide remark, by the way. I really hope you weren't directing that at me, because I already admitted that I'm not an expert on Chinese [or pretty much any Asian] culture.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 15, 2011)

I believe that it is not good to argue over whether or not _Avatar_ is an accurate representation of Asian culture, because while the world was clearly inspired by Asian culture, it is not actually Asia. Similarly, many of the medieval fantasy stories that exist are set in worlds that are modeled after medieval Europe, but are not actually medieval Europe, so therefore, in my mind, none of those stories, including _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ should be interpreted as intending to present an accurate lesson in the history of the real-world culture that inspired it. I believe that it is better to perceive these series as what their creators likely for them to be; stories intended to be entertaining and stress-relieving to their audiences.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 15, 2011)

Ok, I've only been reading whatever the hells going on here for this page and I can already tell this guy is a troll with the reading comprehension of a 2nd grader.  So why are any of you still bothering with this conversation. Its an unbreakable circle of stupid. To quote "war games", the only way to win is to not play the game.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 15, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> And why would the opinions of the Japanese viewership be a stronger point in any argument against the show?



Because...Hybrid animals are plotholes?


How's that for super angry?


----------



## Wan (Sep 15, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I believe that it is not good to argue over whether or not _Avatar_ is an accurate representation of Asian culture, because while the world was clearly inspired by Asian culture, it is not actually Asia. Similarly, many of the medieval fantasy stories that exist are set in worlds that are modeled after medieval Europe, but are not actually medieval Europe, so therefore, in my mind, none of those stories, including _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ should be interpreted as intending to present an accurate lesson in the history of the real-world culture that inspired it. I believe that it is better to perceive these series as what their creators likely for them to be; stories intended to be entertaining and stress-relieving to their audiences.



For once your tendency to point out the obvious is actually appropriate.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 15, 2011)

I actually just came back from Asia City, you guys. 

They are still fighting each other using magical posing, writing in one language and speaking in another, and letting their women feel good about themselves. Avatar remains the most Asian show ever made.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 15, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Are you really using Avatar's ratings in Japan as proof?



And why would the opinions of the Japanese viewership be a stronger point in any argument against the show?[/quote]

Why should America's? You used the word Japanophile, but it would be Americaphile to only care about America's opinion when it comes to foriegn culture. And you really don't get how Asia's reception to a show about Asian culture would be relevant? Really? I'd say it's a clear case when the Asian people themselves dismiss the show.



			
				Oman said:
			
		

> I said we have no idea if the  writers made them, and that's what makes it shaky.


 It sounds like you're gasping as straws here.  We have to take what the show gives us as truth until you can prove otherwise.  The burden of proof lies with you, not on them.  At the moment, the show has more authority than a guy on a message board who doesn't like what the show said.



> And the point remains, though you seem to be dodging it (like others).   Naruto's influence on Avatar was miniscule to nonexistent.  In no way  did Avatar rip off Naruto.


If it's even influenced a tad bit, then yes, you can say Avatar was influenced by Naruto.  It's not a measurable quantity; it's an either/or, yes/no situation.



			
				Jena said:
			
		

> I said they were stupid because they had a knee-jerk reaction to Avatar  and failed to give concrete reasons why they thought it was inaccurate.  You can't just go around saying that certain things are wrong and then  not say why they're wrong. Then it just sounds like you're talking out  of your ass.



They gave some clear examples why they thought it.  Dialog, writing, character personalities.  Not sure how much more reasons you need before you consider their opinion valid.  The only knee-jerk reaction if you calling them an idiot.



DemonDragonJ said:


> I believe that it is not good to argue over whether or not _Avatar_ is an accurate representation of Asian culture, because while the world was clearly inspired by Asian culture, it is not actually  Asia.


 I saw someone use this as a reason to justify the casting  of the movie and the fanbase chewed them out.  So I don't think fans  are going to buy that

Speaking of the movie, it's worth pointing out their pronunciation of the names was actually more accurate to the culture than the show's pronunciations, yet they get trashed for it.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 15, 2011)

I think more focus should be given to Hybrid insects in_ Legend Of Korra_.


----------



## Wan (Sep 15, 2011)

> It sounds like you're gasping as straws here.  We have to take what the show gives us as truth until you can prove otherwise.  The burden of proof lies with you, not on them.  At the moment, the show has more authority than a guy on a message board who doesn't like what the show said.



You know, you haven't even posted a screencap of this pop-up so we can know what it _actually says._  So we're not even sure what the "show" gives us, you're drawing conclusions from hearsay without actual evidence.  So until you do bring evidence, I can just say I don't think the pop-up indicates that Naruto influenced Avatar and I will have just as much authority as you do, another guy on a message board who looks for reasons to trash the show.



> If it's even influenced a tad bit, then yes, you can say Avatar was influenced by Naruto.  It's not a measurable quantity; it's an either/or, yes/no situation.



Influence is quantifiable.  I can say with 100% confidence that Miyazaki influenced Avatar a lot more than Kishimoto ever did, for example.  There's a difference between getting inspiration for a single scene and getting inspiration for the show in general.  There's also a difference between a small amount of influence and "ripping off" something, the latter of which you claimed Avatar did to Naruto.  You're just plain wrong on that, admit it.



> I saw someone use this as a reason to justify the casting  of the movie and the fanbase chewed them out.  So I don't think fans  are going to buy that
> 
> Speaking of the movie, it's worth pointing out their pronunciation of the names was actually more accurate to the culture than the show's pronunciations, yet they get trashed for it.



Yeah, because that has to do with accuracy to the show itself.  Fans care more about ethnicity of the characters and the pronunciation of the names in the show itself then they do how others think _fictional names_ would be pronounced in another language...


----------



## Jena (Sep 15, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> They gave some clear examples why they thought it.  Dialog, writing, character personalities.  Not sure how much more reasons you need before you consider their opinion valid.  The only knee-jerk reaction if you calling them an idiot.




Now, normally this would be the part where I would angrily quote my other paragraph where I explained what I was talking about in an attempt to retain my internet face, but then I realized that this whole thing is stupid.

So I'm going to go watch porn instead.


----------



## Wan (Sep 15, 2011)

Don't worry, you're not losing Internet face by Akimichi Juro saying you're wrong.  If anything you're gaining some.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 15, 2011)

I've more than proven my points. 

Don't take my silence in this insipid debate as an admission of defeat.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 15, 2011)

Yeah I've moved on and explained why previously also. Oman, care to join us?


----------



## Wan (Sep 15, 2011)

Oh don't mind me, I'm actually enjoying this in a perverse fashion.  Unless Jove with his goderator powers declares the discussion over.

Though if the past is any indication, at some point Akimichi Juro will stop responding only to resurface a few months later with an equally inane, false, and misguided criticism of the show.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 15, 2011)

Perhaps DracoStorm will also make an unwelcome return.


----------



## Beast. (Sep 15, 2011)

If anyone has something bad to say about this show, I will personally hack your computer, find your address, come to your house and bitch slap you for being such a fool.

That being said. I really wish they would remake the entire series, take out the corny bullshit, take out the filler episodes and add a fuck ton more violence/blood/gore/death/curse words . Overall though the show is amazing and would kick the ass of most other shows on tv these days. Too bad the movie blew donkey balls.


----------



## Wan (Sep 15, 2011)

Beast said:


> If anyone has something bad to say about this show, I will personally hack your computer, find your address, come to your house and bitch slap you for being such a fool.
> 
> *That being said. I really wish they would remake the entire series, take out the corny bullshit, take out the filler episodes and add a fuck ton more violence/blood/gore/death/curse words* . Overall though the show is amazing and would kick the ass of most other shows on tv these days. Too bad the movie blew donkey balls.



Absolutely unnecessary.  Glad you enjoyed the show, though.


----------



## Beast. (Sep 15, 2011)

Oman said:


> Absolutely unnecessary.  Glad you enjoyed the show, though.



You really like that corny kiddy stuff? The story and concept were just so damn cool that I was able to look past it. But that honestly took allot out of it for me. I could do without the violence, and with the fillers, but that corny stuff man, it pisses me off lol.

Lets put it this way. Green Lantern(Hal) has always been my favourite super hero since I was small. Still is. I will never pay for, or willingly watch that live action "adaptation" ever again. That corny bullshit that they have to add into most new shows/movies just to appeal to the small minority of 13 year old girls in the audience.   It just GETS to me.. It's just silly.


----------



## Superrazien (Sep 16, 2011)

Beast said:


> If anyone has something bad to say about this show, I will personally hack your computer, find your address, come to your house and bitch slap you for being such a fool.
> 
> That being said. I really wish they would remake the entire series, take out the corny bullshit, take out the filler episodes and add a fuck ton more violence/blood/gore/death/curse words . Overall though the show is amazing and would kick the ass of most other shows on tv these days. Too bad the movie blew donkey balls.



YEAH! then after that they can remake Lord of the Rings with Gundams, and star destroyers to!


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 16, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Perhaps DracoStorm will also make an unwelcome return.




Inside information:


AJ has two IP addresses tied to NF. 


Dracostorm is tied to both of them.


----------



## Heloves (Sep 16, 2011)

Wait ..wasn't there a Mr. Jove?  

also ........so long till new series


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 16, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Inside information:
> 
> 
> AJ has two IP addresses tied to NF.
> ...


Stop the world everyone!


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 16, 2011)

AJ has an equally ornery girlfriend who uses his computer to bitch about television shows?


----------



## Pseudo (Sep 16, 2011)

This Akimichi Juro guy again? This guy bitches about everything. Didn't I embarrass you in a thread a couple months back? He was arguing about Young Justice being a terrible show and said it had terrible ratings(A claim he could not back up). I then posted articles show YJ's ratings being among the highest for its time slot. AJ never replied.

He likes to bitch:


Just look through this thread and read his nonsense.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 16, 2011)

Oman said:


> For once your tendency to point out the obvious is actually appropriate.



Thank you very much; I was attempting to be a voice of reason and show that it was foolish to argue over the historical accuracy of a fictional series rather than enjoying it for its characters, drama, and unique terminology and elements.


----------



## Wan (Sep 16, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> This Akimichi Juro guy again? This guy bitches about everything. Didn't I embarrass you in a thread a couple months back? He was arguing about Young Justice being a terrible show and said it had terrible ratings(A claim he could not back up). I then posted articles show YJ's ratings being among the highest for its time slot. AJ never replied.
> 
> He likes to bitch:
> 
> ...



Looking through that thread:

DracoStorm said Naruto has more mature writing and goes into far greater character depth than Batman: TAS.


----------



## Shade (Sep 16, 2011)




----------



## Jena (Sep 16, 2011)

Oman said:


> Looking through that thread:
> 
> DracoStorm said Naruto has more mature writing and goes into far greater character depth than Batman: TAS.





Akimichi Juro said:


> I got to admit, it's amusing how much anime/manga haters there are on a forum dedicated to an anime/manga.  *There's fanboys who actually think Batman the Animated Series had a story? That's incredibly hilarious, but anyway.*



Ok, now I _know_ that they're a troll.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 16, 2011)

Ha. Batman:TAS has 85 individual stories. It's not a serialized show so...that's bad.


----------



## Glued (Sep 16, 2011)

By that logic, Sherlock Holmes didn't have a story either. All it means is that it has no over-arching plot.

However there is actually great debate over what a story is. To some all stories must have a beginning, a problem, a rise, a conflict, a climax, a resolution and a conclusion. While others may argue that all a story is merely cause and effect.

It depends on which school of thought you adhere to.

AJ and Dracostorm both like Iron Man: Armored Adventures, so I wouldn't call them weeaboos. They're not 'wrong,' they simply have a stricter and narrower idea of what a story is.


----------



## Pseudo (Sep 16, 2011)

Oman said:


> Looking through that thread:
> 
> DracoStorm said Naruto has more mature writing and goes into far greater character depth than Batman: TAS.



He an Draco were the morons of the thread.


----------



## Shade (Sep 16, 2011)

Racebending did this great interview with one of their more outspoken members and the writer of the upcoming ATLA sequel comics, Gene Luen Yang. The whole thing is pretty much worth checking out, but I wanted to highlight this part just for AJ. Here's what an award-winning Asian author, whose works always have Asian themes and influences, has to say about Avatar: 
*Spoiler*: __ 





> RACEBENDING.COM: You’ve said in the past that you feel that Avatar: The Last Airbender is uniquely Asian American. Can you elaborate on that? Will The Promise also reflect this?
> 
> YANG: Like I said before, I really see Avatar: The Last Airbender as an American coming-of-age story set in an Asian fantasy environment. Each of the four nations draws heavily from specific Asian or Inuit cultures. The Avatar-verse is Asian the way Middle Earth is English. Air Nomad culture, for instance, is Tibetan Buddhism as seen through a fantastical, mythologized lens. It’s apparent in Aang’s clothes, in his philosophy, even in his food.
> 
> ...






Here's the rest of it.


----------



## Ruby Moon (Sep 16, 2011)

Shade said:


>



Ooooh, me likey the fanart!!


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 16, 2011)

I think I went through that book once...


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 16, 2011)

I love that fanart! Its so adorable! The fire kinda hurts my eyes, but that's just my sensitive eyes I s'pose. 

I hope these weren't posted yet. :sweat


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 16, 2011)

Why is Kyoshi so old?


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 16, 2011)

You know....I don't know. 

I just liked the art. :3

EDIT:

What do you guys think of the voices in this? 
Give a Reason (SHORT Cover)


----------



## Burke (Sep 16, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> He an Draco were the morons of the thread.



From what i remember, wasnt TAS just an "adventure an episode" style cartoon?


----------



## Stunna (Sep 16, 2011)

Yeah, with the occasional two-parter; but they usually contributed to a character's personal growth and story arc.


----------



## Noah (Sep 17, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> What do you guys think of the voices in this?
> Give a Reason (SHORT Cover)



Better than the Japanese dub, at least.

Actually....much, much better.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 17, 2011)

Noah said:


> Better than the Japanese dub, at least.
> 
> Actually....much, much better.


I haven't heard the Japanese dub yet, I'll see if I can find it now 

I liked Aang's and Sokka's, and a little bit of Katara's. But Toph's doesn't match her (at all), at least I don't think so.


----------



## Wan (Sep 17, 2011)

I think there is a fair point in saying that superhero shows, for the most part, don't have overarching stories like a fair bit (but not all) of anime do.

But that fair point was lost buried beneath sad claims that villains didn't have character development, exploring a character in different ways is a bad thing, conflicts never got real closure, the shows lacked depth and maturity, and generally acting like the shows didn't have continuity (a show can have continuity without an overarching plot.)



Terra Branford said:


> You know....I don't know.
> 
> I just liked the art. :3
> 
> ...



The art is indeed 

You know, the French and Spanish dubs were included on the English (American) DVD releases for books 1 and 2.  I should watch them sometime.  (They weren't included on Book 3 because the eps were rushed onto DVD before the dubs could be recorded)

Edit:  You know, I've been thinking...most of the characters in Avatar are well written and developed, except for one...Suki.  When she took on a bigger role in the latter half of Book 3, her character development didn't follow.  She didn't have any emotional range or character depth.  They could have at least given her some dimension buy displaying any traumatic effects of prison (which we have reason to believe, given Azula's taunts at Sokka in the Day of Black Sun).  Personally I think it would have been better to include Hakoda in the last few episodes rather than Suki.  He didn't deserve to get put on a bus like Haru, the Duke, and Teo were.

So, anyone else think Suki is a bit of a Mary Sue-ish character?


----------



## masamune1 (Sep 17, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Why is Kyoshi so old?





Terra Branford said:


> You know....I don't know.



Probably because she lived to be two hundred or so.



Oman said:


> Edit:  You know, I've been thinking...most of the characters in Avatar are well written and developed, except for one...Suki.  When she took on a bigger role in the latter half of Book 3, her character development didn't follow.  She didn't have any emotional range or character depth.  They could have at least given her some dimension buy displaying any traumatic effects of prison (which we have reason to believe, given Azula's taunts at Sokka in the Day of Black Sun).  Personally I think it would have been better to include Hakoda in the last few episodes rather than Suki.  He didn't deserve to get put on a bus like Haru, the Duke, and Teo were.
> 
> So, anyone else think Suki is a bit of a Mary Sue-ish character?



No.

If she was a Mary Sue she wouldn't have ended up in prison in the first place, at least not like that. Just because a character isn't given a lot of development doesn't mean they are a Mary Sue- thats about how annoyingly perfect they are in every way, and she isn't. She isn't that important to the story, she isn't given enough screen time, and she loses too many fights to be considered such a character.

Frankly, it would be kind of annoying and unrealistic if _every_ character was expected to go on that kind of emotional journey; Suki was introduced as a badass ninja girl, so its not too surprising that she can handle this kind of thing better than the Gaang. Azula's taunts probably weren't _lies_, but they were likely exaggerations, designed purely to mess with Sokka (though they may well have been lies, since she probably would have learnt by then who Suki was to the heroes). 

And if she needed character development, I'd rather it not be something like that. She had plenty of emotional range and depth, it was just the depth of a well adjusted girl who understands war and the world better than the main characters, and has been trained to deal with it. Its not as blatant or overt as what Aang or Zuko or the others go through, but its there, Besides, if anything seemed to get to her, it was Zuko destroying her home, not something as trivial as a maximum security prison.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 17, 2011)

Hey guys, not sure how you all feel about the Kung Fu Panda franchise but I'm watching the second film right now and I remembered that the Nickelodeon series will be airing soon and a sneak preview can be seen this Monday. 
So if you didn't know already, the *Track Team* is scoring every episode and *Sifu Kisu* will be the Martial arts consultant. A man by the name of Eric Chen filled that role for the first film.

Anyway, here's a clip that features both.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMggLnY1lVU[/YOUTUBE]

I gotta say, the music sounds very Avatar-y.

Any thoughts?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 17, 2011)

Since another user mentioned Suki above, I wonder if she ever forgave Zuko for him attacking her village? I know that she had plenty of time to interact with him after he and Sokka rescued her, but I cannot recall whether or not she forgave him. Also, Mai and Ty Lee never interacted with Aang and his companions in a positive, friendly manner. I definitely would like to know if they ever were properly introduced to each other, and if they understood that they were not truly enemies.


----------



## Wan (Sep 18, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> No.
> 
> If she was a Mary Sue she wouldn't have ended up in prison in the first place, at least not like that. Just because a character isn't given a lot of development doesn't mean they are a Mary Sue- thats about how annoyingly perfect they are in every way, and she isn't. She isn't that important to the story, she isn't given enough screen time, and she loses too many fights to be considered such a character.
> 
> ...



I meant that she became Mary Sue-ish after she got out of prison.  After that point she took on a bigger role -- she practically became part of the gaang -- but her character development didn't follow.  She was fine as a guest character every now and then, but I would hope that if they went to the trouble of including Suki in the gaang for the last few episodes and send Hakoda away, they would at least _do something _with her.  The most we got from her after "The Boiling Rock" was a sex joke with Sokka and _steering an airship as if it was a small sailboat._ Not balanced out by any character flaws or personal conflicts.  Seems pretty Sue-ish to me.  It just would have been nice if she'd gotten a little bit of emotional depth after "The Boiling Rock" (she was fine there).  If she wasn't meant to be important to the story in the first place, they should have put her on a bus with everyone else in "The Southern Raiders" and let the main characters be awesome like they've always been.


----------



## Burke (Sep 18, 2011)

hhhhhhhhhhh
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGgzS8kC0h4&feature=channel_video_title[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## masamune1 (Sep 18, 2011)

Oman said:


> I meant that she became Mary Sue-ish after she got out of prison.  After that point she took on a bigger role -- she practically became part of the gaang -- but her character development didn't follow.  She was fine as a guest character every now and then, but I would hope that if they went to the trouble of including Suki in the gaang for the last few episodes and send Hakoda away, they would at least _do something _with her.  The most we got from her after "The Boiling Rock" was a sex joke with Sokka and _steering an airship as if it was a small sailboat._ Not balanced out by any character flaws or personal conflicts.  Seems pretty Sue-ish to me.  It just would have been nice if she'd gotten a little bit of emotional depth after "The Boiling Rock" (she was fine there).  If she wasn't meant to be important to the story in the first place, they should have put her on a bus with everyone else in "The Southern Raiders" and let the main characters be awesome like they've always been.



A Mary Sue is a character defined by their annoying tendency to over-awesomeness. Either they are a main character who never loses, masters everything, etc., or they are a supporting character who does the same, and usually overshadows the hero(es) in doing so. Character development, or lack thereof, is not really that big a factor.

Suki joined the Gaang properly, yes, but she was more or less the least important member and there was only a handful of episodes left, and thats why she didn't get much development- because she didn't get enough screen time. If she were a Mary Sue she would have gobbled it up and pushed everyone else out of her spotlight; as it was, a sex joke and steering an airship (which is supposed to be steered that way) were all she got, and at the time she was doing that Toph and Sokka were demolishing the Fire Nation fleet pretty much by themselves and Aang was fighting Ozai, while aways away Zuko and Katara were fighting Azula. They _were_ being awesome like they've always been- _she_ was being overshadowed by _them._ 

She was there to tie up her story, which is linked with Sokka's, so its justified; she doesn't need prison trauma to make important. What they should have done is not bus her for somebody else (or bus her for nobody and keep the story going), but brought in other old characters too, to give a more epic finale` (versus a handful of people soloing armies, which _is_ Mary Sue-ish), and tie up their ends _as well._


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 18, 2011)

Does anyone here find it to be ironic that Ty Lee fled from her family, because she was one of six identical siblings, so that she could establish her own identity, and later joined the Kyoshi warriors, who all wear identical face paint and clothing? I certainly believe it to be so.


----------



## Quaero (Sep 18, 2011)

Gene Yang said:
			
		

> In the episode ?The Beach? (one of my favorites)



Oh boy, Jove is going to have a seizure.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 18, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> AJ and Dracostorm both like Iron Man: Armored  Adventures, so I wouldn't call them weeaboos. They're not 'wrong,' they  simply have a stricter and narrower idea of what a story is.



Eh, not anymore.  Season 2 has been really dumb and lame.  New writers/producers came on board, now it's crap pretty much.  Such is life.  

But yes, I do stand to say B:TAS has little/no story.  I'm not sure how that's disputable.  There's only a handful of Western cartoons you can say do.

Speaking of new writers..



DemonDragonJ said:


> Does anyone here find it to be ironic that Ty Lee fled from her family, because she was one of six identical siblings, so that she could establish her own identity, and later joined the Kyoshi warriors, who all wear identical face paint and clothing? I certainly believe it to be so.



That's what we call the writings not communicating.  It leads to a lot of inconsistencies with the characters.  Sort of like how Katara didn't care the Fire Nation took her mother from her in season 1 and 2 (and played a big part in the Jet episode) but then suddenly in one random episode in season 3 she now cares.  Or how Sokka goes from 'smart straight man' to 'idiot comic relief who can't even catch a baby animal despite being raised as a hunter for most of his life and was the sole hunter in his village until the show began but I guess we're ignoring that now' depending on who's writing the episodes.  It's a problem you get with shows hat have multiple writers.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 18, 2011)

SS7, I see you down there. Just ignore it.


----------



## Burke (Sep 18, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> SS7, I see you down there. Just ignore it.



Truly advice to be taken when confronted with such a problem.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 18, 2011)

Jove sensed the conflict within me.
By the way, what did you think of that Kung Fu Panda clip I linked to? The Track Team said that the music would sound more traditionally Chinese than what was composed for Avatar but all I heard was...Avatar. There is nothing bad about that in my opinion, believe me.


----------



## Wan (Sep 18, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> But yes, I do stand to say B:TAS has little/no story.  I'm not sure how that's disputable.  There's only a handful of Western cartoons you can say do.



Stay classy.


----------



## Jena (Sep 18, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> But yes, I do stand to say B:TAS has little/no story.  I'm not sure how that's disputable.  There's only a handful of Western cartoons you can say do.






> That's what we call the writings not communicating.  It leads to a lot of inconsistencies with the characters.  Sort of like how Katara didn't care the Fire Nation took her mother from her in season 1 and 2 (and played a big part in the Jet episode) but then suddenly in one random episode in season 3 she now cares.  Or how Sokka goes from 'smart straight man' to 'idiot comic relief who can't even catch a baby animal despite being raised as a hunter for most of his life and was the sole hunter in his village until the show began but I guess we're ignoring that now' depending on who's writing the episodes.  It's a problem you get with shows hat have multiple writers.


----------



## Wan (Sep 18, 2011)

Wait a sec, I didn't even bother reading AJ's full post, but did he seriously claim Katara' didn't care that the Fire Nation killed her mother?

...
...
...

Akimichi Juro, when was the last time you actually watched the show?


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 18, 2011)

You know, for someone who supposedly doesn't like the show, he sure knows a lot about it...


----------



## Glued (Sep 18, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Eh, not anymore.  Season 2 has been really dumb and lame.  New writers/producers came on board, now it's crap pretty much.  Such is life.
> 
> But yes, I do stand to say B:TAS has little/no story.  *I'm not sure how that's disputable. * There's only a handful of Western cartoons you can say do.



Its very disputable. Why just the other day I wrote a story for my professor about Sinbad the sailor having a mental breakdown after his ship got destroyed by the Roc.

One of my professors described storytelling as the following. "The King died is not a story, The king died and the Queen die of sadness is a story."

Mr. Freeze's wife got put on ice, which causes him to go on a rampage. Cause and effect. 

In fact I remember a Short story the other day after watching the Animaniacs. It was about a little piece of golden wrapping paper. The wrapping paper never says a word during the entire seven minutes. He gets used and torn up after christmas. He eventually finds himself in the pocket of a poor child at the end of the story. This is called a short.

There was a story in the Batman the New Adventures where Baby Doll becomes a hotel worker. She doesn't get the respect that she deserves. She watches television to see the trial of Killer Croc. Killer Croc pleads that he is a victim of discrimination, something Baby Doll can relate to. This causes Baby Doll to pursue a life of crime with Killer Croc. Baby discovers Killer is having an affair behind her back. They take over a nuclear power plant and Baby puts it to meltdown to get her revenge. Eventually Killer gets hurt and Baby is filled with regret.

It coincides with another story of how Killer Croc once tried to gain sympathy from a group of circus travelers. They pitied Killer Croc and saw him as one of them, just another victim of society. In the end Killer betrays them and just tries to get their money. Killer at end tells the Seal Boy, "You said that out here you can be yourself. That's just what I was doing, being myself."

Different variables such as Croc's character and Baby's desire to find someone like herself intertwined to create this story.

Another example I give you is the show Conan the Adventurer. Now this show had a some flaws, for instance the episodes were not in chronological order. The plot of the show was for Conan to undo the curse of Living Stone upon his family and defeat the Wizard Wrathamon. Now in this series there was a single episode called "The Treachery of Emperors." This episode had nothing to do with the main plot and had nothing to do with the major villains such as Wrathamon or Mezmira. By your definition it was filler. However this episode was the closest you could get to an actual Robert E. Howard story. In this episode Conan was hired by a King to save his daughter from an evil cultist in return Conan would be given a kingdom. Conan saves the princess and defeats the cultist. Conan is betrayed by the king. At the end of the episode the Princess saves Conan and sets him free. The princess develops from a snotty brat to an understandable person. The story had themes such as the manners of barbarians to kings, such as the philosophy of Robert E. Howard. The story was that of Conan saving a princess only to be betrayed by a king. This episode came closer to the canonical writing of Robert E. Howard than the entire series.

[Youtube]O45G8kUMIn8[/Youtube]
[Youtube]wFRzPuhC4po[/Youtube]
[Youtube]vu5lVILgZDQ[/Youtube]

There was no overarching plot in this episode. It divulged from the main plot. However would you say this episode had no story. Even if had not watched the entire series, I could still say that this one episode had a story.

The definition of what a story is up for debate. As was said in the story, The Last Unicorn, "There are no happy endings because there is never an ending."

And once again to say that Batman has no story is the same as to say the Sherlock Holmes does not have one either.

So yes it is disputable. Not only is it debatable, but even today professors in Universities are debating what a story is.


----------



## Wan (Sep 18, 2011)

I would define a story, at its most basic, as a conflict and a resolution of that conflict.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 19, 2011)

I had forgotten all about that Conan animated show although I do remember watching when it aired.
Ben Grimm is truly the record keeper of obscure and forgotten cartoons.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 19, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Probably because she lived to be two hundred or so.


Nah, I thought she was twenty 

Seriously though, she didn't look that way in the show (gray hair, wrinkles etc), even though she was super old. :/




Soooo......



> So, anyone else think Suki is a bit of a Mary Sue-ish character?


No, I did not. How is she?


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 19, 2011)

Perhaps deceased Avatars can choose what image to project once their spirits pass on.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 19, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Perhaps deceased Avatars can choose what image to project once their spirits pass on.


Yea, maybe....

But even so, if she looked _that_ good at _that_ age, I doubt she died looking _that_ old. So if that is so, the only image she could project is most likely the same young looking one.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 19, 2011)

...she's a spirit.  She can choose whatever form she wants, it's a confirmed fact she died in her 200s though.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 19, 2011)

Mider T said:


> ...she's a spirit.  She can choose whatever form she wants, it's a confirmed fact she died in her 200s though.



We know when she died, but the show does not show her old is all, at least not in the way the fanart showed. 

She _could_ choose whatever form she wants, but that hasn't been said in the show as far as I know (?). So putting speculations/etc aside, the fanart shows her in an image of 100 year woman when she didn't look (that) old.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 19, 2011)

Oman said:


> Wait a sec, I didn't even bother reading AJ's full post, but did he seriously claim Katara' didn't care that the Fire Nation killed her mother?
> 
> ...
> ...
> ...



Whenever it was originally on TV.  I mean obviously yeah, she didn't want her mother to die or anything and cared in that regard, but she moved on and wasn't some crazy revenge-obsessed person like in that season 3 episode,   which was what she wanted to teach Jet and stuff back in the first season.   Then suddenly 40 episodes later she cares for an episode, then it's never mentioned again, making her a hypocrite considering what she said to Jet back then.



Ben Grimm said:


> Stuff



Er.. if you want to get philosophical and technical, then yes, Batman  TAS has a story in each episode.  Batman fights a various bad guy,  captures them, and story ends with the episode.  That's a story.  That's not really what  people mean when they refer to Western animation not having a story,  though.  They mean shows like Avatar, when it's core is about Aang  trying to defeat the Fire Lord.  Aside from the fillers, the episodes  all move towards this goal in some way, and it has an actual tangible ending with at least a moderate amount of conclusion.  That's actually pretty revolutionary for American animation, though it's just a dime a dozen when it comes to anime.

I'll take your word for Conan given what you said, but B:TAS doesn't fit in that regard.  There is no real point to Batman, that's why the comics have been going on for 60+ years with tons of reboots, side stories, shows, movies, and such.  At it's core, it's just about Batman fighting his rogues and sending them to jail to do it again next week.  It's not anime.  It's not even Avatar.  Outside some very rare and loose things (Harvey Dent shows up in a few episodes before he becomes Two Face) you can watch each episodes in pretty much any order and not really have it impact anything.  That's the model executives here want TV to be made because it's easy to do reruns. Admittedly, it seems to work given Avatar averaged only about 3 million viewers an episode, yet Spongebob, iCarly, Fairly Odd Parents, and all those episodic shows on Nickelodoen average about 8 or 9 million an episode.  It just seems to be the preferred method in the west, especially among children.

So does Batman have a story? Sure, it's about him fighting various criminals each week.  Does it have a continuing plotline with an end goal and actual progression towards said goal? No.  That's what people mean when they criticize American animation for not having a story.  It's not 'weeaboo' or whatever, it's just stating the differences in each country's animation industry in terms of attitude and execution.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 19, 2011)

^ So your saying Avatar is basically the big fish in a little pond (long, story-oriented western animation shows).

While it would be a little-moderate fish in the ocean of anime (which have long story arcs as standard structure and not the exception)...?


----------



## Wan (Sep 19, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Whenever it was originally on TV.  I mean obviously yeah, she didn't want her mother to die or anything and cared in that regard, but she moved on and wasn't some crazy revenge-obsessed person like in that season 3 episode,   which was what she wanted to teach Jet and stuff back in the first season.   Then suddenly 40 episodes later she cares for an episode, then it's never mentioned again, making her a hypocrite considering what she said to Jet back then.



Wow.  You're really taking the moment out of context.

Katara didn't take it out on individual Fire Nation citizens for the death of her mother.  However, in Zuko she saw the embodiment of most bad things that had happened since Aang awoke, and since he's the Fire Nation prince he represented leadership of the Fire Nation and was in a sense, indirectly responsible for her mother's death -- from her perspective.  So, when she got shut in a cave with him with nothing else to do but talk, all that emotion came to the surface.  However, Zuko surprised her with how badly the Fire Nation had treated him as well, to the point of causing his mother to disappear.  They bonded in the cave -- only for Zuko to throw that bonding in Katara's face and aid Azula in fighting her and Aang.  In a way, Zuko betrayed not just her trust, but betrayed the emotional intimacy Katara allowed him.

So, fast forward to when Zuko tries to join the gaang.  Katara doesn't trust him for a split second, and perhaps due to the subject of their conversation in the cave, she again unloads the emotional weight of her mother's death on him.  Yeah, she's bitchy.  But it's not like that behavior is unprecendented.  When Zuko tries helping her find revenge, her anger is not pointed at the Fire Nation, or even the raiding band that made the attack, but the specific man who murdered her mother.  Once she finds him though, she realizes that she can't kill him.  After that moment, she's willing to let go of the bitterness and forgive Zuko.

But wait.  That sounds like an actual character arc.  Silly me, Avatar characters don't have character development.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 19, 2011)

Oman said:


> Katara didn't take it out on individual Fire Nation citizens for the death of her mother.  However, in Zuko she saw the embodiment of most bad things that had happened since Aang awoke, and since he's the Fire Nation prince he represented leadership of the Fire Nation and was in a sense, indirectly responsible for her mother's death -- from her perspective.  So, when she got shut in a cave with him with nothing else to do but talk, all that emotion came to the surface.  However, Zuko surprised her with how badly the Fire Nation had treated him as well, to the point of causing his mother to disappear.  They bonded in the cave -- only for Zuko to throw that bonding in Katara's face and aid Azula in fighting her and Aang.  In a way, Zuko betrayed not just her trust, but betrayed the emotional intimacy Katara allowed him.
> 
> So, fast forward to when Zuko tries to join the gaang.  Katara doesn't trust him for a split second, and perhaps due to the subject of their conversation in the cave, she again unloads the emotional weight of her mother's death on him.  Yeah, she's bitchy.  But it's not like that behavior is unprecendented.  When Zuko tries helping her find revenge, her anger is not pointed at the Fire Nation, or even the raiding band that made the attack, but the specific man who murdered her mother.  Once she finds him though, she realizes that she can't kill him.  After that moment, she's willing to let go of the bitterness and forgive Zuko.



Excellent post, Oman; those scenes are clear evidence of plot and character development in _Avatar,_ and some of the best instances of such development. Such continuity helped to make the series more intriguing and serious as a story, showing that the characters had emotional depth, that their actions were influenced by their emotions, and that their actions had long-term effects upon the plot. That is one of my favorite aspects of the series, I am glad that western animates series in general are exhibiting such detailed storytelling more often, and I do hope that _The Legend of Korra_ shall feature storytelling of this caliber when it premieres.


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## Narcissus (Sep 19, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Er.. if you want to get philosophical and technical, then yes, Batman  TAS has a story in each episode.  Batman fights a various bad guy,  captures them, and story ends with the episode.  That's a story.  That's not really what  people mean when they refer to Western animation not having a story,  though.  They mean shows like Avatar, when it's core is about Aang  trying to defeat the Fire Lord.  Aside from the fillers, the episodes  all move towards this goal in some way, and it has an actual tangible ending with at least a moderate amount of conclusion.  That's actually pretty revolutionary for American animation, though it's just a dime a dozen when it comes to anime.



What you fail to realize is that a show doesn't have to have an overarching plot to be a good show. And in fact, it's good that all of them don't because it would only be displaying a lack of creativity.

The episodic stories in Batman manage to address interesting issues and develop the characters while still giving excellent and entertaining action. That is why Batman: TAS is considered to be such a good cartoon.

Sorry to disappoint you, but everything does not have to conform to your narrow views in order to be well-written.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 19, 2011)

Let's break both Batman and Naruto down.

Batman TAS.
Overarching goal: Rid Gotham of criminal elements.

Batman, over the course of the series, has many one or multi-episode arcs. They all have a beginning, middle and end, and they all have story. They do contribute to the overall story of Batman. For instance, you see Harvey Dent in many episodes, doing his job, going inbetween the police and stuff. Then, he becomes Two-Face, and the guilt of that plagues Batman over the series, as well as the menace of Two-Face over Gotham. Harvey Dent used to date Pamela Isley, she tried to kill him during that period. This fact isn't dropped, in the poker episode, Two-Face said one part of him wanted to strangle her, the other half wants to hit her with a truck. She then tells the other villains that they used to date. 

Batman clearly has a story and character development going on that isn't forgotten or reset by the next episode. 

Batman hasn't given up on Two-Face yet, and wants to cure him of his complexes.

Naruto
Overarching goal:Naruto wants to become Hokage.

Naruto over the course of the series has many multi-chapter, multi-episode arcs. They all have a beginning, middle, and end, and they all have a story. They contribute to the overall story of Naruto. For instance, you see Sasuke in many episodes/chapters, doing his job as a ninja and striving towards revenge. Then he defects, and the guilt of that plagues Naru-oh waaaaait...

Naruto wants to bring Sasuke back, blah blah blah. It is really no different, they have a different format of telling stories, but to say Batman has no story is just egregious. Naruto, presents its arcs as multi-chapter or episode, Batman is more of a episodic nature. The basic things, however, are similar and still apply, as well as both series as a whole.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 19, 2011)

Excellent post, Reikai Demon; hopefully that shall end any arguing or debating over whether or not such series as _Avatar: the Last Airbender_ and _Batman: the Animated Series_ have well-written central plots. I unfortunately cannot give you +rep currently, as  have used my daily allotment of reputation for today, but I certainly would if I could for your insight and analysis.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 19, 2011)

Come on guys, it's a free country and people are entitled to their bafflingly wrongheaded opinions.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 19, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Come on guys, *it's a free country* and people are entitled to their bafflingly wrongheaded opinions.


Wait, what country are we in?


----------



## Glued (Sep 19, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Er.. if you want to get philosophical and technical, then yes, Batman  TAS has a story in each episode.



Exactly each episode is a separate story. Reminds me of Tales from the Crypt animated series.

Each episode is its own story.

[YOUTUBE]Wyg97KXUyNg[/YOUTUBE]

Are you going to say that Tales from the Crypt has no story?



> That's not really what people mean when they refer to Western animation not having a story, though. They mean shows like Avatar, when it's core is about Aang trying to defeat the Fire Lord.



Who are these people that say Western animation does not have a story?



> Aside from the fillers, the episodes all move towards this goal in some way, and it has an actual tangible ending with at least a moderate amount of conclusion.



There is tangible ending at the end of each Batman episode.



> That's actually pretty revolutionary for American animation, though it's just a dime a dozen when it comes to anime.



Conan eventually defeated Wrathamon.
The Humans defeated Phaeton in Exosquad.
Superman was humiliated by Darkseid and ended his series with Lois
Captain Simian defeated Nebula
Xavier was sent to the stars in X-men TAS
The Mandarin was killed in Iron Man TAS
Madame Web takes Peter on a Journey to find Mary Jane in Spider-man TAS
Roughnecks, Ricco replaced Raczak and became the leader
And of course the evil prince was defeated in Wing Commander Academy.
Doug finally found the Lucky Duck Lake Monster



> I'll take your word for Conan given what you said, but B:TAS doesn't fit in that regard. There is no real point to Batman, that's why the comics have been going on for 60+ years with tons of reboots, side stories, shows, movies, and such.



Sometimes there is an eventual conclusion and sometimes there isn't. Golden Age Batman married Catwoman and had a daughter. 



> At it's core, it's just about Batman fighting his rogues and sending them to jail to do it again next week.



I can say the same about Sherlock Holmes. Or an even better example, a tv series, Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century.

[YOUTUBE]Nkn8n18yS7A[/YOUTUBE]



> It's not anime. It's not even Avatar.


 Why does it need to be?


> Harvey Dent shows up in a few episodes before he becomes Two Face



The final episode that Harvey Dent appeared in, he created a third persona the Judge and nearly killed himself. At the end of the episode Harvey is left leaning against the wall talking to himself. "guilty, guilty, guilty..."




> Does it have a continuing plotline with an end goal and actual progression towards said goal? No. That's what people mean when they criticize American animation for not having a story.



The plots are contained within the episodes. The eventual goal of each episode is to stop the criminal. Or is Sherlock Holmes a series or not?

Oh yes there was another adaptation of Sherlock Holmes, an anime. This one was made by Hayao Miyazaki.

It was called Sherlock Hound. Does this series have a story?

[YOUTUBE]rYuFHLezUyo[/YOUTUBE]

Does Batman have story. I have but one thing to say, no shit...Sherlock.


----------



## Burke (Sep 19, 2011)

this argument is bumming me out further


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 19, 2011)

Doctor Crane said:


> Wait, what country are we in?



The great country of Elbonia


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 19, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> ^ So your saying Avatar is basically the  big fish in a little pond (long, story-oriented western animation  shows).
> 
> While it would be a little-moderate fish in the ocean of anime (which  have long story arcs as standard structure and not the  exception)...?



I guess?  Avatar isn't anything special if you actually look at anime,  since they have less restrictions on things like format, production, and  censorship, and are able to do more than Avatar ever could.  I suppose  that's a factor in why it bombed in Japan.  After all, the only American  animation that makes a dent in Japan are Disney/Pixar films, mainly  because the Japanese movie industry is a lot weaker and smaller than  their television industry (kind of the opposite of America, if you think  about it)  I guess that's kind of why anime is a worldwide hit, while American cartoons aren't.



Oman said:


> Wow.  You're really taking the moment out of context.
> 
> Katara didn't take it out on individual Fire Nation citizens for the  death of her mother.  However, in Zuko she saw the embodiment of most  bad things that had happened since Aang awoke, and since he's the Fire  Nation prince he represented leadership of the Fire Nation and was in a  sense, indirectly responsible for her mother's death -- from her  perspective.  So, when she got shut in a cave with him with nothing else  to do but talk, all that emotion came to the surface.  However, Zuko  surprised her with how badly the Fire Nation had treated him as well, to  the point of causing his mother to disappear.  They bonded in the cave  -- only for Zuko to throw that bonding in Katara's face and aid Azula in  fighting her and Aang.  In a way, Zuko betrayed not just her trust, but  betrayed the emotional intimacy Katara allowed him.
> 
> ...



Now, how much of that is true and how much is fanfiction speculation? The show never really bothers addressing it.  



ReikaiDemon said:


> Naruto, presents its arcs as multi-chapter  or episode, Batman is more of a episodic nature. The basic things,  however, are similar and still apply, as well as both series as a  whole.



Except no, not really.  We know each Akatsuki/villain/others will find  resolution or die, and the manga will end.  Key thing is the story will  end.  Batman won't end, outside cancellation, anyway.  That's why they  had to try to inject some form of closure in later cartoons like Justice  League Unlimited, and even then, not all the villains or story was  wrapped up.  Batman never did rid all the criminals in Gotham.. if you  go by Batman Beyond, it just got worse and he had no impact.  This says  nothing of the comics, or other Batman cartoons like The Batman, Brave  and the Bold or others which don't have the luxery of extending into  another show the creator made after it was cancelled (which is really  cheating, all things considered)




Ben Grimm said:


> Each episode is its own story.



Yes.



> Are you going to say that Tales from the Crypt has no story?


An overarching one or series-wide one? No.



> Who are these people that say Western animation does not have a story?


Various people on various forums of various backgrounds.  It's often a common citation anime fans say when asked why they prefer anime over American cartoons, or manga over superhero comics.



> There is tangible ending at the end of each Batman episode.


You know that's not what people mean.  If you're going to try to play semantics and technicalities rather than addressing the actual meaning behind the statement, then you're just wasting everyone's time.  It's obvious people aren't referring to an episode of Spongebob having an ending, they're referring to the show as a whole, like how most anime are 13/26 episode shows made with a set story and ending in mind when they start. 



> The final episode that Harvey Dent appeared in, he created a third persona the Judge and nearly killed himself. At the end of the episode Harvey is left leaning against the wall talking to himself. "guilty, guilty, guilty..."


I remember that.. indeed.  He never got any resolution to his character, oh well.


----------



## Glued (Sep 19, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> I guess that's kind of why anime is a worldwide hit, while American cartoons aren't.



Really, my cousin Omi in the Bangladeshi military didn't like anime, his favorite show was the Power puff girls. My other cousins, they're favorite show was Godzilla TAS (The American version).

Why Disney has been a huge influence in animation all over the world.



> An overarching one or series-wide one? No.



But the stories do have plots. They have resolutions. You don't need an overarching plot to have story. Otherwise you invalidate every short story.



> Various people on various forums of various backgrounds.  It's often a common citation anime fans say when asked why they prefer anime over American cartoons, or manga over superhero comics.



Good for them.



> You know that's not what people mean.  If you're going to try to play semantics and technicalities rather than addressing the actual meaning behind the statement, then you're just wasting everyone's time.  It's obvious people aren't referring to an episode of Spongebob having an ending, they're referring to the show as a whole, like how most anime are 13/26 episode shows made with a set story and ending in mind when they start.



Length does not determine story. For example that one episode of Conan where he saves a princess. What happened, Conan accomplished in a single episode what took Ichigo over a hundred.

And once again I call upon Sherlock Holmes, who had the exact same premise as Batman



> I remember that.. indeed.  He never got any resolution to his character, oh well



That was his resolution. In an effort to punish himself, Harvey Dent created the third persona, the judge. Overwhelmed by the numerous personalities he is no longer a threat to anyone. He's become a jibbering idiot.


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## Noah (Sep 19, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Now, how much of that is true and how much is fanfiction speculation? The show never really bothers addressing it.



Watewut?

Do you need Katara to literally say "Zuko, now that I have resolved my issues with this man that killed my mother I can let go of any animosity towards you and be your friend." ? It doesn't need to be addressed. It's called inferential story telling. By showing all of this, we can infer what the characters are feeling based on their actions. Good stories don't tell, they show.

Are you so thick that you really need that spelled out for you, or are you just grasping at straws to try and keep your argument alive?


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## Jena (Sep 19, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I can say the same about Sherlock Holmes. Or an even better example, a tv series, Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]Nkn8n18yS7A[/YOUTUBE]



JESUS CHRIST I USED TO WATCH THIS SHOW ALL THE TIME

...it wasn't really that good. 



And Akimichi Juro, you make me lol


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## Dream Brother (Sep 19, 2011)




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## Stunna (Sep 19, 2011)

I've never heard of half the cartoons Grimm posts about.


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 19, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I've never heard of half the cartoons Grimm posts about.



You were probably too young to remember them...hell I watched Sherlock Holmes and the 22nd century but I couldn't tell you what a single episode was about.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 19, 2011)

I remember *The Adventures of Tintin*.

That was actually long-story oriented show right? 

People even died. :amazed


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## Wan (Sep 19, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Now, how much of that is true and how much is fanfiction speculation? The show never really bothers addressing it.



There you go killing kittens again. 

All the events I describe happened exactly that way in the show.  All the communication between Zuko and Katara that I described happened in the show.  If you want me to break it down for you:

Katara gets mad at Zuko in the cave because he represents the Fire Nation and everything bad they've done, including killing her mother.  Zuko reveals he lost his mother to the Fire Nation as well, and they bond over it.  Fact.

Katara is angered by Zuko fighting alongside Azula, thinking he had changed.  Fact.

Katara doesn't trust Zuko for one second once he joins Team Avatar, on the basis of the past behavior listed above.  She even threatens to kill him if he turns again.  Fact.

When Zuko confronts Katara on why she's holding a grudge against him, her anger at the loss of her mother comes to the surface again.  Zuko offers to help her track her mother's actual killer.  She expresses no anger towards the Southern Raiders in general, just the man who killed her mother, Yon Rha.  When they find him, she realizes that she can't kill him.  She doesn't forgive Yon Rha, but afterwards she forgives Zuko.  All facts.

So what part did the show not address again?


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## Quaero (Sep 19, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> I remember *The Adventures of Tintin*.
> 
> That was actually long-story oriented show right?
> 
> People even died. :amazed



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywl4WikdCN4[/YOUTUBE]

And it had a kickass intro I might add.


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## Narcissus (Sep 20, 2011)

Did you guys know that Avatar has no direct punching?! Especially on women?!


Hey guys, did you know Avatar has no on-screen deaths?!


Completely ambiguous!


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## Glued (Sep 20, 2011)

that was a tap, not a punch


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## Superstarseven (Sep 20, 2011)

A love tap.


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## Narcissus (Sep 20, 2011)

A love tap that left her paralyzed so she could fall on her face.



NO ON-SCREEN DEATH IN AVATAR, BLARGH!!!


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## Friday (Sep 20, 2011)

We don't really need it. At least some people died. It's the same with the blood-bending can one-shot everyone.


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## Jena (Sep 20, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> A love tap that left her paralyzed so she could fall on her face.
> 
> 
> 
> NO ON-SCREEN DEATH IN AVATAR, BLARGH!!!


He doesn't die in that scene. 


Besides, it's primarily a kid's show. They can't show people getting horribly burned to death on Nick.


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## Wan (Sep 20, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> A love tap that left her paralyzed so she could fall on her face.
> 
> 
> 
> NO ON-SCREEN DEATH IN AVATAR, BLARGH!!!



Gives me chills even as a gif. 

And Jena, yes, he does die.  The way Aang and Katara talk about it in "The Awakening" indicates that he died.

Aang: I went down! I didn't just get hurt, did I? It was worse than that. I was gone. But you brought me back.
 Katara: I just used the spirit water from the North Pole. I don't know what I did, exactly.
 Aang: You saved me.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 20, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I've never heard of half the cartoons Grimm posts about.



In that case, if you ever are seeking obscure western animated series to watch, series with excellent stories and characters that are genuinely entertaining (at least in my mind), I definitely suggest that you converse with him about such series and ask for recommendations.



Narcissus said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who here ever made such claims? Did that user even watch the series?

However, with that being said, I have noticed that despite the violence of this series, the worst injuries that any character received were (usually) bludgeoning attacks (apart from Zuko's face being burned and Azula striking Aang with lightning). No character was ever seen to be cut or slashed, and no blood was ever shown; after having followed numerous Japanese animated series where bloodshed is shown much more frequently, I find it to be very odd and even straining credibility that the characters in a series such as this never bleed from the injuries that they receive. I understand that the series was intended for younger audiences, but would it have been too extreme to have at least had some minor bloodshed? _Gargoyles_ had bloodshed on occasion, as did _Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty,_ and _The Lion King,_ so why not this series, as well? Plus, how could the series contain an art known as "bloodbending" but not show any actual blood when using that art (it even had the word "blood in its name!)? That seems to be very unusual to me.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 20, 2011)

Sometimes not showing the result makes it stronger.

Of course, I'm not sure how well those intended scenes fared against Standards and PRactices.


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## Wan (Sep 20, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Who here ever made such claims? Did that user even watch the series?



Akimichi Juro, in the Thundercats 2011 vs Avatar thread.


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## Narcissus (Sep 20, 2011)

Jena said:


> He doesn't die in that scene.



As Oman explained, yes he did. Katara revived him with the spirit water. Sometimes you've got to pay close attention to the dialogue.


DemonDragonJ said:


> _Gargoyles_ had bloodshed on occasion, as did _Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty,_ and _The Lion King,_ so why not this series, as well? Plus, how could the series contain an art known as "bloodbending" but not show any actual blood when using that art (it even had the word "blood in its name!)? That seems to be very unusual to me.



God forbid, we have some action that doesn't involve bloodshed. Avatar didn't require it. The action was done well enough without it, and honestly I don't even think it would have added anything to the fights. And there are times when implication are actually more powerful tools than the violent display. That's been shown in other cartoons as well.



Oh look! Another ambiguous on-screen death!

I'm just having fun at this point.


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## Jena (Sep 20, 2011)

Oman said:


> Aang: I went down! I didn't just get hurt, did I? It was worse than that. I was gone. But you brought me back.
> Katara: I just used the spirit water from the North Pole. I don't know what I did, exactly.
> Aang: You saved me.



Forgot about that. 

It's been over three years since I last watched the show. 

Thanks, though.


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## Glued (Sep 20, 2011)

Violence does not equal maturity as pointed out by CS Lewis in Da Lion Da Witch and Da Wardrobe.

That book was a well written.

Hell they even had Santa Clause drops in and give them presents


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## Gunners (Sep 20, 2011)

Sozin betraying Roku was chilling. He didn't speak to Roku for years maybe decades but the love and respect he had was enough for him to risk his life to help him stop the volcano. 

Those positive emotions took a backseat to his desire for power.

And I can't remember the poster nor do I care to look it up. I just remember thinking 'eh' at him/her claiming Avatar didn't have fight scenes.  Don't know whether to laugh at the stupidity or facepalm at the disrespect.


----------



## Piekage (Sep 20, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Oh look! Another ambiguous on-screen death!
> 
> I'm just having fun at this point.



We didn't see his burning carcass! He could have survived, you don't know!


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## masamune1 (Sep 20, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Sozin betraying Roku was chilling. He didn't speak to Roku for years maybe decades but the love and respect he had was enough for him to risk his life to help him stop the volcano.
> 
> Those positive emotions took a backseat to his desire for power.



It wasn't power; it was ego, and a dash of "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions." He wanted to share the technology of the Fire Nation with the rest of the world, bring civilization to the masses. He just thought that Imperialism would be the easiest way to do this. It was a mixture of arrogance, manifest destiny and glory hunting with a bit of self-delusion about the altruism of his project thrown in for good measure. He was never after power- rather, he thought he had it, and wanted to use it.


----------



## Shade (Sep 20, 2011)

^ And that made him a much better villain for me than Ozai, who essentially followed the blueprint. 

I picked up the Art Book the other day, it's freaking amazing. Recommended for any fan of the show or just animation in general.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 20, 2011)

Gunners said:


> And I can't remember the poster nor do I care to look it up. I just remember thinking 'eh' at him/her claiming Avatar didn't have fight scenes.  Don't know whether to laugh at the stupidity or facepalm at the disrespect.



Wait...just simply fight scenes? This person wrote that Avatar didn't have fight scenes?
I remember one complaint or observation that someone had about season 3 was that it had too many fight scenes compared to previous seasons.
Interesting to see the extreme opposite of that opinion.


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## Gunners (Sep 20, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> It wasn't power; it was ego, and a dash of "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions." He wanted to share the technology of the Fire Nation with the rest of the world, bring civilization to the masses. He just thought that Imperialism would be the easiest way to do this. It was a mixture of arrogance, manifest destiny and glory hunting with a bit of self-delusion about the altruism of his project thrown in for good measure. He was never after power- rather, he thought he had it, and wanted to use it.


I won't disagree with this. 


			
				Superstarseven said:
			
		

> Wait...just simply fight scenes? This person wrote that Avatar didn't have fight scenes?
> I remember one complaint or observation that someone had about season 3 was that it had too many fight scenes compared to previous seasons.
> Interesting to see the extreme opposite of that opinion.


Apparently Avatar lacks women getting slapped around.

I think a lot of people's complaints is rooted in the insecurity they feel when watching a 'kiddies show', wanting to see blood and gore so they can pat themselves on the back and say '10 year olds won't be watching this'.


----------



## masamune1 (Sep 20, 2011)

Shade said:


> ^ And that made him a much better villain for me than Ozai, who essentially followed the blueprint.



Not really; Ozai was also the type of guy who had power and just wanted to use it, rather than go after it. The difference is he seemed to think the whole world revolved around him, with everyone else there to either worship him, serve him or be subjugated or destroyed by him. He's a little different from other standard villains like that in that he really, sincerely believes this, to the point where aside from briefings on the war he doesn't really seem to _do_ anything other than sit around and be worshipped (and thats even what said war briefings eventually turn into anyway). 

So, he's different in that he's not a diabolical genius or visionary megalomaniac or anything- he's more of a very cold-hearted manchild, and his attitude sometimes comes across as very stupid- not becuase he _is_, but because he's just king of his own little world. He works for me because he's something of a farce, albeit a very dangerous farce because everyone goes along with it.


----------



## Wan (Sep 20, 2011)

Shade said:


> ^ And that made him a much better villain for me than Ozai, who essentially followed the blueprint.
> 
> I picked up the Art Book the other day, it's freaking amazing. Recommended for any fan of the show or just animation in general.



I was going to go in-depth on Ozai's character but I think masamune1 covered it better than I could.  I will say that while Ozai was not the most complex villain on the show, he was plenty intimidating, as well as mysterious in the first two books, to make him memorable.  Plus being voiced by Mark Hamill automatically makes him 10x better than he would be otherwise.

And agreed on the artbook. :33


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 21, 2011)

At no point have I ever stated that I believe that the presence of excessive violence makes a series more "mature," and I agree completely that excessive violence (or vulgar language, or gratuitous sexual activity) may prevent a series from being perceived as "mature" by some audiences. I simply do see why this series could not have shown bloodshed, as not showing bloodshed may give children the idea that it is acceptable to be physically violent toward other people, because they shall not be injured by it, at least that is what I believe. Or, perhaps, I am stating this simply because I prefer to see blood in fight scenes; I like seeing the red liquid flow and splatter in scenes of battle. With that being said, am I being immature when I state that I enjoy seeing bloodshed?

As for villains, I prefer villains who A: are completely and unrelentingly evil; and B: openly acknowledge and revel in their evilness. These traits help to more sharply contrast the villain with the hero and also assure me, in my mind, that the hero is completely justified when they oppose and defeat the villain, and for me, having a hero whose actions are always completely justified or justifiable is a very important part of following a fictional story. While neither Sozin nor Ozai openly reveled in being evil (in fact, they both believed that they were justified in their actions), Sozin was not completely evil overall, so I did not despise him as much as I did Ozai.


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## Narcissus (Sep 21, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Sozin betraying Roku was chilling. He didn't speak to Roku for years maybe decades but the love and respect he had was enough for him to risk his life to help him stop the volcano.


And that's exactly the kind of example I'm referring to. There is no need for excessively graphic violence when there are more powerful tools that can be used like Sozin's betrayal.





Piekage said:


> We didn't see his burning carcass! He could have survived, you don't know!


Or even better, that Volcano was actually just a portal to the Spirit World! That's why Roku and his dragon are there now!!! 


DemonDragonJ said:


> I simply do see why this series could not have shown bloodshed


It didn't _need_ to.





> not showing bloodshed may give children the idea that it is acceptable to be physically violent toward other people, because they shall not be injured by it, at least that is what I believe.


Now that's just silly. To begin with, the characters have been injured more than enough without bloodshed for children to know better. Katara's hands get badly burned, Katara is violently knocked unconscious and left steaming by Zuko and Azula. Aang is killed by Azula. Zuko got his face burned. Avatar doen't need to turn into Kill Bill for kids to know that they could still be burned by fire. Or drown in the water. Or that having a rock thrown at you will hurt. Or that a tornado will kill you...





> Or, perhaps, I am stating this simply because I prefer to see blood in fight scenes; I like seeing the red liquid flow and splatter in scenes of battle.


More than likely.





> With that being said, am I being immature when I state that I enjoy seeing bloodshed?




No, because bloodshed _can_ be a great tool when used properly, just like many other things can. And a lot of fictions pull it off well. But not everything needs it, and Avatar is one example of that.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 21, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> At no point have I ever stated that I believe that the presence of excessive violence makes a series more "mature," and I agree completely that excessive violence (or vulgar language, or gratuitous sexual activity) may prevent a series from being perceived as "mature" by some audiences. I simply do see why this series could not have shown bloodshed, as not showing bloodshed may give children the idea that it is acceptable to be physically violent toward other people, because they shall not be injured by it, at least that is what I believe. Or, perhaps, I am stating this simply because I prefer to see blood in fight scenes; I like seeing the red liquid flow and splatter in scenes of battle. With that being said, am I being immature when I state that I enjoy seeing bloodshed?



No, you're not.  It's just some people try to downplay the restrictions of censorship, maybe out of some insecurities that they're upset that their shows can't show it so they act like they don't need/want it.  Like that guy who can never get a date, but covers it up by saying "Tch, love is dumb anyway" 

I like to use a famous quote from Go Nagai which sums it up perfectly.

_“I was  particularly saddened when I found  out that in many countries I was  considered to be an author who loves  to depict battles and destruction  just for the fun of it. The  reason why I depict the effects of war in  my comics is because I  strongly believe that a person should learn from  childhood how war can  be destructive and how much people and societies  may suffer from it,  just the same way I learned it from the stories of  adults around me  when I was a little child. If we raise a child telling  him only the  nice and happy things of life, he will be unable to cope  with all the  hardships he will inevitably meet in his adulthood; if he  doesn’t know  the devastating effects of violence and repression, he  could [...]  cause incredible damage and suffering to the people around  him._

_I  guess this is one of the reasons why  Japanese people, who have been  raised for the last 60 years reading  comics that some people abroad have  labeled as hyper-violent, chose not  to be involved in war after 1945  and have stated in their very  constitution that they renounce war, as  opposed to a country like the  US, which has strong censorship against  violence in animation and  programs for children, but has been at war for  most of its recent  history."_


_- Go Nagai_


Pretty much sums everything up beautifully, I can't think of a single thing to add.  A show like Avatar by it's very definition is strangled by censorship.  It can never reach the levels of works that actually do show how bad war can be.  The fact not a single person got hurt or killed during the Day of Black Sun is not only unrealistic, it really pulls you out of the moment and reminds you you're watching a show on Nickelodeon.  It's a chilling reminder the can't even have people punching each other, as other people have mentioned (no, poking someone with a finger is not a punch, no matter how much you want to twist the words around).  Apologists seem to think there's no middle ground, it's either no violence like in Avatar or fountains of blood as in Kill Bill.  They ignore worldwide hits like Fullmetal  Alchemist and Naruto which handled volence and war much better, and are more well received because of it, and are not 'fountains of blood' as they put it.  There's no logical reason why Avatar shouldn't show as much violence as those shows.  Aside from Nickelodeon censorship, I mean.  Or maybe American prudeness is a part of it, who knows.


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## Jena (Sep 21, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> No, you're not.  It's just some people try to downplay the restrictions of censorship, maybe out of some insecurities that they're upset that their shows can't show it so they act like they don't need/want it.  Like that guy who can never get a date, but covers it up by saying "Tch, love is dumb anyway"



Yes, it's exactly the same thing.

Because people can't possibly be disturbed by violence and therefore dislike it. That just doesn't exist. They're shelted and in denial.

That's why I insist that all my television programs aimed at children be riddled with as much violence and sex as possible. Those little buggers need to know that the world is a cruel and dark place and that they will die violent deaths one day. That's also why I let my 8 year old son watch Sin City. It's completly appropriate for his age. 

And we all know that the only way that something makes an impact is if we actually see it happen. That's why people don't get scared at movies like Jaws where the threat is hidden for the better part of the movie.


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## Wan (Sep 21, 2011)

So Akimichi...you're just going to pick up on another point rather than respond to how wrong you were on others?  Ok.


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

I like how he brings up Go Nagai, to further his arguments against censorship when several of Nagai's works did get him in trouble with Japanese censors lol

Also for that matter while I enjoy Nagai's works, I do feel he overdoes it in terms of sex and violence


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 21, 2011)

Oman said:


> So Akimichi...you're just going to pick up on another point rather than respond to how wrong you were on others?  Ok.



What points? The part where people said Ty Lee poking someone was the same as someone getting punched? Obviously if people think that, then it's not like anything anyone says is going to convince them otherwise.  They're too blinded by their love of the series to see it as anything else in their eyes. See also people saying even showing the smallest drop of blood is suddenly the same as Kill Bill and Sin City.  Again, like I said, there's no middle ground with them.  Hyperbole is all over this thread.



			
				Jena said:
			
		

> That's why I insist that all my television programs aimed at children be  riddled with as much violence and sex as possible. Those little buggers  need to know that the world is a cruel and dark place and that they  will die violent deaths one day. That's also why I let my 8 year old son  watch Sin City. It's completly appropriate for his age.


You're on a forum dedicated to a kid's show with violence, so that seems fairly hypocritical all things considered.

Sure, it's a parents job to raise their kid and determine appropriateness, but you apparently missed Nagai's point entirely.  There's a difference between that and completely sheltering and preventing anything to be made and hiding the fact war is a bad thing from people.  Digimon is also a kids show, but they handled the topic of violence and death far, far better than Avatar (or really any American kids show) ever did.  They even did that whole "is it right to kill someone" debate much better without resorting to a cop out spiritbending-type ending.  



> And we all know that the only way that something makes an impact is if  we actually see it happen. That's why people don't get scared at movies  like Jaws where the threat is hidden for the better part of the movie.


You really going to use a movie that has a shark goring people to death as a claim of 'no violence'?



Emperor Joker said:


> I like how he brings up Go Nagai, to  further his arguments against censorship when several of Nagai's works  did get him in trouble with Japanese censors lol
> 
> Also for that matter while I enjoy Nagai's works, I do feel he overdoes it in terms of sex and violence



Good for you, that doesn't diminish his point just because you feel that way, though.  Osamu Tezuka has said the same thing when he found out how badly his Tetsuwan Atom show was handled in America and renamed "Astro Boy" and then butchered.  America  being incredibly uptight and restrictive isn't exactly an unpopular  opinion in Japan (or the rest of the world, for that matter)


----------



## Glued (Sep 21, 2011)

Have you ever heard of Spawn, there was animated series about it on HBO.


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

Thank you for completely missing my point Juro...

Your lauding Nagai as someone to boost Japan's sense of censorship, which isn't a fair comparison considering that Japan's censors have had problems with him and several of his earliar works when he started out as well as several parent's groups.


My point




your head


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## Jena (Sep 21, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> You really going to use a movie that has a shark goring people to death as a claim of 'no violence'?


Nope. But I am going to use it as a claim of "showing" vs "telling".



Emperor Joker said:


> Thank you for completely missing my point Juro...
> 
> Your lauding Nagai as someone to boost Japan's sense of censorship, which isn't a fair comparison considering that Japan's censors have had problems with him and several of his earliar works when he started out as well as several parent's groups.
> 
> ...


That's what I was thinking too...


----------



## Glued (Sep 21, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Digimon is also a kids show, but they handled the topic of violence and death far, far better than Avatar (or really any American kids show) ever did.



Wing Commander Academy.
Roswell. 
Spawn (Spawn is excessively violent, Seinen level)
Superman
Samurai Jack
Roughnecks
Spicy City
Exosquad
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Invasion America



> No, you're not. It's just some people try to downplay the restrictions of censorship, maybe out of some insecurities that they're upset that their shows can't show it so they act like they don't need/want it. Like that guy who can never get a date, but covers it up by saying "Tch, love is dumb anyway"



I love violence more than the next guy. However it doesn't mean depth as shown by C.S. Lewis.



> Good for you, that doesn't diminish his point just because you feel that way, though. Osamu Tezuka has said the same thing when he found out how badly his Tetsuwan Atom show was handled in America and renamed "Astro Boy" and then butchered.* America being incredibly uptight and restrictive isn't exactly an unpopular opinion in Japan* (or the rest of the world, for that matter)



Spawn and Spicy City were anything, but uptight.


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 21, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> No, you're not.  It's just some people try to downplay the restrictions of censorship, maybe out of some insecurities that they're upset that their shows can't show it so they act like they don't need/want it.  Like that guy who can never get a date, but covers it up by saying "Tch, love is dumb anyway"


This is one big appeal to motive fallacy.





> A show like Avatar by it's very definition is strangled by censorship.  It can never reach the levels of works that actually do show how bad war can be.


This is a lie. An entire culture was wiped out as a result of the war. People were shackled and bound, and their spirits were broken. 

Like I said, we didn't need a ton of people getting killed for the show to be  effective.





> (no, poking someone with a finger is not a punch, no matter how much you want to twist the words around).


Her hand was balled up into a fist. It just wasn't a forceful punch because her intent was to block Azula's chi. It's also amusing that you only comment on the weakest of the gifs that were posted.





> Naruto which handled volence and war much better


Yeah, and Naruto has a tone of other problems with the writing, so not exactly the best example to use.





Oman said:


> So Akimichi...you're just going to pick up on another point rather than respond to how wrong you were on others?  Ok.


His concession was accepted long before he stopped replying.





Akimichi Juro said:


> See also people saying even showing the smallest drop of blood is suddenly the same as Kill Bill and Sin City.


Apparently the use of exaggeration is also lost on you. Seriously, this is the kind of stuidity Peter Griffin could only *DREAM* about.





> You really going to use a movie that has a shark goring people to death as a claim of 'no violence'?


Jaws is also praised for its ability to create an extremely tense feeling of fear without even showing the Shark. It's more clever than a simple shark mauling flick, like others of a similar nature. 

Seriously, the only valid argument I've seen from you against Avatar is the Energy Bending. And even though that was a cop out, it did have the effect of giving Ozai a more fitting punishment.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 21, 2011)

Still arguing with Juro, eh?

bbl


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 21, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Your lauding Nagai as someone to boost  Japan's sense of censorship, which isn't a fair comparison considering  that Japan's censors have had problems with him and several of his  earliar works when he started out as well as several parent's  groups.



Actually it's completely fair.  His work still got made.  Point? We still see people in Digimon and Naruto get beheaded and cut up.  What some random people complain about doesn't matter in the end, as you can find at least one person complaining about anything.  What matters is he did what he wanted to do in the end, as did all these shows.  

I also used Tezuka as an example.  Now, discredit Tezuka as well while you're at it.  Not that it will actually matter or anything, but I can keep naming people and you can keep trying to discredit and saying they're wrong if you want.  

Or you could stop avoiding the issue and actually address the comments these people have made rather than try to weasel out of it.



Jena said:


> Nope. But I am going to use it as a claim of "showing" vs "telling".



The difference is Jaws does kill people.  Lots of people.  The impact  you talk about stems from the suspense from waiting and seeing who will die and when.   That's the premise of every horror movie (at least before they became  torture porn).  That's not the issue about violence VS no violence.



Ben Grimm said:


> Wing Commander Academy.
> Roswell.
> Spawn (Spawn is excessively violent, Seinen level)
> Superman
> ...



Thank you for proving my point.  

And Samurai Jack? Ninja Turtles? Seriously? Where all the enemies were robots?  Don't just name random shows, actually explain why you use think they can compare and deal with the issue of killing in a serious manner.



> Spawn and Spicy City were anything, but uptight.


They also weren't kid shows like the ones I listed.



Narcissus said:


> This is one big appeal to motive fallacy.This  is a lie. An entire culture was wiped out as a result of the war.  People were shackled and bound, and their spirits were broken.



Yeah, that's not exactly the same thing at all, but nice try.



> Like I said, we didn't need a ton of people getting killed for the show to be  effective.


It seems plenty of people disagree with you.  Of course, I suppose it's  all personal preference in the end, but apparently the shows that don't  shy away from it are the preferred choice for just about everyone else.   Lord of the Rings? Nope, didn't shy away from it.  Naruto? Nope. Saving Private Ryan? Oh God, no.  

Why is it every other series that deals with war has no problem actually, you know, killing people off on screen, yet you feel the need to make excuses for Avatar? Why can't you just admit it's because of Nickelodeon censorship? It's such a common criticism I've seen against the show, but you seem to prefer pretending the issue doesn't exist.



> Her hand was balled up into a fist. It just wasn't a forceful punch because her intent was to block Azula's chi.


Yes, I suppose if you extend your finger out the other fingers in your  hand are rolled together because it's easier that way.  Seriously,  you're still trying to pass it off as a punch because of _that_?



> It's also amusing that you only comment on the weakest of the gifs that were posted.


They were all just as bad, but like I said, not like anything someone  says will confer you to think differently, because your mind is already  made up and you refuse to move from 'we don't need to actually see it.  A cloud of smoke engulfs Roku or whoever and it's apparently dealing with the serious issue of death on par with Maes Hughes and his funeral or something.  Please.



> Yeah, and Naruto has a tone of other problems with the writing, so not exactly the best example to use


Speaking of fallicies.  Personal attack.  You're attacking a series  'writing problems', which alone is being 'vague' (another fallacy) but  also has nothing to do with the comment about it being able to show  actual horrors of war.      You're essentially saying "Yeah, you're right, BUT" to which the rest is of no consequence, because it's not the issue.

(Seriously, you sure seem to have no problem insulting other shows so easily, but have yet to actually admit to any flaws Avatar has.  Can you even say something you dislike about the show? )



> Apparently the use of exaggeration is also lost on you. Seriously, this is the kind of stuidity Peter Griffin could only *DREAM* about.


Another fallacy, ad hominem.  Not to mention exaggeration, which is  hyperbole, another fallacy.  I don't see why you need to exaggerate on  an issue that is pretty clear.

Seriously, if you're going to resort to pulling out fallacies rather than make any kind of legitimate points, the least you can do is make sure you don't commit them youself.


----------



## Glued (Sep 21, 2011)

In Samurai Jack, specifically, there was a robot name X9, this robot was a sentient being, who knew that what he did was wrong. In the end he died. Whether he is a robot or not is irrelevant, the fact remains that he was a sentient being. The Viking warrior that Jack sent to Valhalla wanted Jack to kill him. Jack spat poison into the throat of Fall.

TMNT- Zog the Triceraton died to save the turtles.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 21, 2011)

Actually being a robot or a living animal/creature is a huge difference.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 21, 2011)

So, if you hate Avatar so much, why continue posting in an avatar thread?  There's a lot of shows I don't like, so I don't watch them.  On top of that, I don't go looking for threads/boards about those shows and whine and complain to everybody about why I don't like them and why they shouldn't either.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 21, 2011)

Who says I hate it?


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 21, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Yeah, that's not exactly the same thing at all, but nice try.


Nice job ignoring your fallacy. I accept your concession. And it's not the same thing only in the sense that it doesn't fit your narrow definition.





> It seems plenty of people disagree with you.


Appeal to popularity fallacy.





> Of course, I suppose it's  all personal preference in the end, but apparently the shows that don't  shy away from it are the preferred choice for just about everyone else.   Lord of the Rings? Nope, didn't shy away from it.  Naruto? Nope. Saving Private Ryan? Oh God, no.


Comparing Naruto to well written works of fiction? 



> Why is it every other series that deals with war has no problem actually, you know, killing people off on screen


So has Avatar, as I proved on the last page.





> yet you feel the need to make excuses for Avatar?


They aren't excuses. They're explanations for why the show doesn't need to use it over-excessively. You, however, are ignoring it.





> Why can't you just admit it's because of Nickelodeon censorship? It's such a common criticism I've seen against the show, but you seem to prefer pretending the issue doesn't exist.


This is another lie. I have said that Avatar was censored. My argument, however, is that the show does an excellent job that the censorship is irrelevant. They do such a good job with other tools that bloodshed is unnecessary.





> Yes, I suppose if you extend your finger out the other fingers in your  hand are rolled together because it's easier that way.  Seriously,  you're still trying to pass it off as a punch because of _that_?


By definition, yes it is. It just isn't forceful. And it didn't need to be.





> They were all just as bad, but like I said, not like anything someone  says will confer you to think differently, because your mind is already  made up and you refuse to move from 'we don't need to actually see it.  A cloud of smoke engulfs Roku or whoever and it's apparently dealing with the serious issue of death on par with Maes Hughes and his funeral or something.  Please.


No, they all refuted your claims. They directly showed on-screen deaths. Which is why you are now extending your argument to include a funeral. I accept your concession.





> Speaking of fallicies.  Personal attack.  You're attacking a series  'writing problems', which alone is being 'vague' (another fallacy) but  also has nothing to do with the comment about it being able to show  actual horrors of war.


That's an improper use of the fallacy. To begin with, it's not a personal attack. It's a criticism. And Naruto does not show a realistic display of war. Naruto changing Pain's views with a book and a speech is a perfect example of that. Sasuke's illogical actions are another.





> (Seriously, you sure seem to have no problem insulting other shows so easily, but have yet to actually admit to any flaws Avatar has.  Can you even say something you dislike about the show? )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you read?





> Another fallacy, ad hominem.


The as hominem is an attempt to refute another's argument by attacking them rather than the argument. That is not what I have done. I refuted your argument outside of the insult. Also,

_The ad hominem is normally described as a logical fallacy, but it is not always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue._ - Walton, Douglas (2008). Informal Logic: A Pragmatic Approach. Cambridge University Press. p. 170.​
In your case, you have displayed a clear bias against the show. While misusing fallacies, in addition to be guilty of several. Excellent.





> Not to mention exaggeration, which is  hyperbole, another fallacy.  I don't see why you need to exaggerate on  an issue that is pretty clear.


Hyperbole is not a fallacy. It's a literary device. Way to be wrong. Again.





> Seriously, if you're going to resort to pulling out fallacies rather than make any kind of legitimate points, the least you can do is make sure you don't commit them youself.


And I've just explained how incredibly wrong you are. Seriously, I haven't seen someone use logic as poorly as you in quite some time.


----------



## Noah (Sep 21, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> TMNT- Zog the Triceraton died to save the turtles.



Note that he only commented on the robot.

And let's not forget Leonardo decapitating The Shredder. There was no censorship with that. He cut his head off. At about 9:25 A.M. on a Saturday morning.

Sure, it was explained later that he's actually an Utron piloting a robotic body, but that really shouldn't matter, as it's retroactive explanation. Leo cut of Shredder's head.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 21, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Comparing Naruto to well written works of fiction?



Last I checked, this wasn't 4chan (thank God) so please stop using images in place of an arguments.

Nice job avoiding the entire issue, though.  Again, attacking a show directly rather than any of the other series I mentioned, or even addressing the comparison.  As if you disliking a show somehow invalidates that point.  I'll take that as a sign you can't refute it then.



> So has Avatar, as I proved on the last page.


Which one was that? Roku being covered in black smoke or Aang getting knocked out by Azula's lightning.  Neither was on screen, just implied.  And Aang's is debatable since they never said 'dead' given that quote that was mentioned.  That is not on screen death.  



> They aren't excuses. They're explanations for why the show doesn't need to use it over-excessively.


Your explanations are essentially "becuase I said so" which doesn't hold up in the grand scheme of things.  You used Roku being covered in smoke as an on screen death when it's clearly not.



> My argument, however, is that the show does an excellent job that the censorship is irrelevant. They do such a good job with other tools that bloodshed is unnecessary.


And I say otherwise.  There we go, we cancel each other out.



> Hyperbole is not a fallacy. It's a literary device. Way to be wrong.


this is an epic cover of Goodbye Baby that is a must watch

Ahem.

You can't twist fallacy definitions to suit your needs when you like.



> Again.And I've just explained how incredibly wrong you are. Seriously, I haven't seen someone use logic as poorly as you in quite some time.


Your entire argument is "No, you're wrong, you lose/I accept your concession" Despite plenty of evidence being given to you and you just slap it away and say it doesn't count.  Not only is that a poor argument, it's pretty childish. Sort of like using gifs and images to make a point like you're on 4chan, or resorting to pointing out vague fallacies when making them yourself then trying to weasel out of them and say they're not fallacies.  



Noah said:


> And let's not forget Leonardo decapitating The  Shredder. There was no censorship with that. He cut his head off. At  about 9:25 A.M. on a Saturday morning.



Again, robot.  Shredder stands up and it's shown he's not gone.  

You'll notice they kick all other times when not fighting robots and never stab people or anything.

Not that any of this has to do with the 'decide to kill or not kill' debate which this was all originally about.  Digimon still trumps these shows in that regard.  Still waiting for a good example.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 21, 2011)

Because being covered in volcanic ash is completely offscreen of course. how much more do you want you seriously want to see Roku writhing in agony in the burning, and poisonous ash...seriously? yes let's totally give our target audience, horrible nightmares and trauma, that will have parents groups breathing down our neck and get our show cancelled because we went to far. excellent thinking/

You don't seem to grasp that censorship as minor as offscreen deaths don't even really matter in the long run, especially considering said off screen deaths and censorship didn't effect the storytelling or storyline potential at all.

For those people who actually wish to talk about thier show, I apologize, for being one of those that have now hijacked your thread.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 21, 2011)

BUT THINGS CAN ONLY BE ADULT AND MATURE WITH LOTS OF BLOOD AND KILLING!!!

GRIMDARK MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A GROWNUP!!!!


----------



## Noah (Sep 21, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Again, robot.  Shredder stands up and it's shown he's not gone.



Irrelevant. At the time, the audience has no reason to believe that he's anything but human. So when Leo decapitates him, as far as we're concerned, he's a human who's head was just sliced off. Shredder getting up several minutes later does not nullify the fact that the leader of the protagonist just decapitated the antagonist onscreen. 

Retroactive explanation does not negate the action that preceded it. If the audience knew that Shredder was actually a robotic body before the event, then you would have an argument.

And trying to argue the cloud of smoke thing with Roku is....ridiculous, at best. Old man goes down on a volcano(lol), his pet covers him, and they are both engulfed by a cloud of smoke and ash which, by the way, precedes a GIANT WALL OF LAVA. If you can even pretend to argue that as not being an onscreen death, then you're literally just arguing for the sake of arguing. Showing the charred remains is completely unnecessary, nevermind the age bracket the show as aimed at.


....and what the sweet bloody jesus snacks am I doing this for? You're clearly trolling the thread. I'm stepping out, knowing that I don't have to google various terms and fallacies to understand the art of story telling.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 21, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Because being covered in volcanic ash is completely offscreen of course. how much more do you want you seriously want to see Roku writhing in agony in the burning and poisonous ash...seriously? yes let's totally give our target audience horrible nightmares and trauma, that will have parents groups breathing down our neck and get our show cancelled because we went to far. excellent thinking



So now it's "Yeah, it's stupid, but we have to do it or get cancelled/complaints"

My point is that's not on-screen. Jaga from the new Thundercats had a similar fate, of being caught in an explosion and engulfed by smoke.. boom, still alive a few episodes later.  Never thought he was dead either, unlike some people who were so quick to jump on it and say he was.  Granted, they said Roku was gone (and this was a flashback, so he'd be dead of old age either way), but it's still not on screen.  He got covered in smoke.  



> You don't seem to grasp that censorship as minor as offscreen deaths  don't even really matter in the long run, especially considering said  off screen deaths and censorship didn't effect the storytelling or  storyline potential at all.


Except it did.  By default, it's restrictive to the potential, and that can not be disputed.  What if they wanted to do a big heroic sacrifice of Jet dying, like Boromir's last stand in Lord of the Rings, but the networks said no, so we got that half-assed scene of Jet of "I'll be okay, go on ahead"?  There, it was restricted.  They didn't have that option available to them, so the story potential is already ruined.  If they aren't allowed to do something, then by default, yes, the story is restricted to be told in certain ways.  Sort of like how, judging by that quote, Aang never said he 'died' just 'something more' or whatever.  Hell, look at the whole Ursa storyline, it was so vague you have no idea what really happened with her and everything.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> BUT THINGS CAN ONLY BE ADULT AND MATURE WITH LOTS OF BLOOD AND KILLING!!!
> 
> GRIMDARK MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A GROWNUP!!!!



A good example of hyperbole/straw-man.  No one actually said this, but  he feels the need to shout in all caps about it, adding nothing to the  discussion and just making himself look like a child.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 21, 2011)

Ugh, this thread makes me sick now


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 21, 2011)

Noah said:


> Irrelevant. At the time, the audience has no reason to believe that he's anything but human. So when Leo decapitates him, as far as we're concerned, he's a human who's head was just sliced off. Shredder getting up several minutes later does not nullify the fact that the leader of the protagonist just decapitated the antagonist onscreen.



It does when all we really see is his helmet with no head.  It could be a ghost for all we know.  The point is he's not dead, so it's just like slicing off a suit of armor or robot's head.  Still alive and kicking, and you'd have to be very thick in the head to NOT think he wasn't human after he just stood up after that.



> And trying to argue the cloud of smoke thing with Roku is....ridiculous, at best. Old man goes down on a volcano(lol), his pet covers him, and they are both engulfed by a cloud of smoke and ash which, by the way, precedes a GIANT WALL OF LAVA. If you can even pretend to argue that as not being an onscreen death, then you're literally just arguing for the sake of arguing. Showing the charred remains is completely unnecessary, nevermind the age bracket the show as aimed at.


Yes, actually, that is not on screen.  Again, see the Jaga comment.  And for all we know, the dragon, a being of fire, protected him and saved him, or magic fairies came out.  No body, no death.  (Though yes, he did die, but you get the point)  It's not on screen no matter how much you want to repeat that it is.

Speaking of charred remains and on screen deaths.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 21, 2011)

I'd Like to Call My Next Witness to the Stand...Oman.


----------



## Wan (Sep 21, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> What points? The part where people said Ty Lee poking someone was the same as someone getting punched? Obviously if people think that, then it's not like anything anyone says is going to convince them otherwise.  They're too blinded by their love of the series to see it as anything else in their eyes. See also people saying even showing the smallest drop of blood is suddenly the same as Kill Bill and Sin City.  Again, like I said, there's no middle ground with them.  Hyperbole is all over this thread.



What points? How about this:

"There you go killing kittens again. 

All the events I describe happened exactly that way in the show. All the communication between Zuko and Katara that I described happened in the show. If you want me to break it down for you:

Katara gets mad at Zuko in the cave because he represents the Fire Nation and everything bad they've done, including killing her mother. Zuko reveals he lost his mother to the Fire Nation as well, and they bond over it. Fact.

Katara is angered by Zuko fighting alongside Azula, thinking he had changed. Fact.

Katara doesn't trust Zuko for one second once he joins Team Avatar, on the basis of the past behavior listed above. She even threatens to kill him if he turns again. Fact.

When Zuko confronts Katara on why she's holding a grudge against him, her anger at the loss of her mother comes to the surface again. Zuko offers to help her track her mother's actual killer. She expresses no anger towards the Southern Raiders in general, just the man who killed her mother, Yon Rha. When they find him, she realizes that she can't kill him. She doesn't forgive Yon Rha, but afterwards she forgives Zuko. All facts.

So what part did the show not address again?"

In response to your question of how much my analysis of Zuko and Katara's relationship is "fanfiction speculation" and "the creators didn't really address that".

As for "no middle ground", _you're_ the one who seems to only think in hyperbole, accusing Avatar of never showing violence, death, and the effects of war when it clearly _does._

I should quote General Fong, when he's trying to convince Aang to try to control the Avatar State:

"That's the infirmary, and those soldiers are the lucky ones.  Every day the Fire Nation takes lives. People are dying, Aang! You could end it, now! Think about it."





Akimichi Juro said:


> So now it's "Yeah, it's stupid, but we have to do it or get cancelled/complaints"
> 
> My point is that's not on-screen. Jaga from the new Thundercats had a similar fate, of being caught in an explosion and engulfed by smoke.. boom, still alive a few episodes later.  Never thought he was dead either, unlike some people who were so quick to jump on it and say he was.  Granted, they said Roku was gone (and this was a flashback, so he'd be dead of old age either way), but it's still not on screen.  He got covered in smoke.



You spin other people's words more skillfully than a spider spins a web.  Or, should I say, about as skillfully as a little kid with a Beyblade.

The only one saying that it's stupid is you.  It's _very_ clear that Roku died that moment -- the scene cuts to Aang being born immediately afterwards, there's nothing to indicate Roku could have survived that, and indeed the very reason Sozin leaves him behind is because he knows Roku will die.  Absolutely no ambiguity in that scene, and it happens on screen.  Not gruesomely, but on screen.  You actually can't seem to comprehend that death doesn't have to be gruesome.

As for Jaga, that's another show with a circumstance that did _not_ happen in Avatar.  You could go after that scene all you want -- but don't confuse Thundercats with Avatar.


----------



## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

ReikaiDemon said:


> Ugh, this thread makes me sick now


Me too. 



Akimichi Juro said:


> Speaking of charred remains and on screen deaths.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

You know, I thought that we could have a mini-discussion on the new Kung Fu Panda series using The Track Team as composers and Sifu Kisu as the Martial arts consultant. Everybody still wanted to argue back and forth so it's not as if someone tried to steer this thread into another direction. I guess a show about animals using martial arts doesn't appeal to anyone despite of the Avatar connection? I don't know.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> A good example of *hyperbole/straw-man.*  No one actually said this, but  he feels the need to shout in all caps about it, adding nothing to the  discussion and just making himself look like a child.



Bullshit it's a strawman!  Just because you haven't said those specific words doesn't mean that it isn't readily apparent that it's pretty much what you're saying.  Even if you're using different words to say it. Every single example you try to bring up using other shows has specifically centered on how much more violent/bloody/dark they are in comparison to Avatar.  You're Fullmetal Alchemist clip up there being a perfect example.

It's also a perfect example, as Jena pointed out, that you can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that that show (Fullmetal) and the others you've used in your examples are aimed at a _completely different demographic of audience than Avatar is._


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

Where's DracoStorm to defend her man?
If there was anyone's posts I would describe as shrill, it'd be hers.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 22, 2011)

Enooooough of this bull crap, please.

I don't care how, but this is stopping, NOW

Not nao, or niooooooow, or even now.

just 

NOW


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Last I checked, this wasn't 4chan (thank God) so please stop using images in place of an arguments.


Except I am using them _with_ the argument. That's the difference (something else you fail to comprehend).





> Nice job avoiding the entire issue, though.  Again, attacking a show directly rather than any of the other series I mentioned, or even addressing the comparison.  As if you disliking a show somehow invalidates that point.  I'll take that as a sign you can't refute it then.


One important thing to do in an argument is to actually *READ IT* before you respond. If you did, you'd know that I actually explain my reasoning on Naruto further in the post, rather than making a fool of yourself.





> Which one was that? Roku being covered in black smoke or Aang getting knocked out by Azula's lightning.  Neither was on screen, just implied.  And Aang's is debatable since they never said 'dead' given that quote that was mentioned.  That is not on screen death.


You're resorting to blatant dishonesty and denial. Emperor Joker and Oman beat me to it, but yes, Roku died, and *on-screen*. Aang was also killed. Everything does not need to be spelled out. His dialogue, in addition to the use of the spirit water, is evidence of his death from Azula's lightning. There was also Yue's sacrifice.





> Your explanations are essentially "becuase I said so" which doesn't hold up in the grand scheme of things.  You used Roku being covered in smoke as an on screen death when it's clearly not.


That is a straw man. I gave explanations for my reasons. You're ignoring them. And, as also explained by others, Roku wasn't just "covered in smoke." He was covered in volcanic ashes. He died from it.





> And I say otherwise.  There we go, we cancel each other out.


What you say is irrelevant when you have no facts to corroborate your claim. Avatar does an excellent job telling a story, developing its characters, and showing action. They do this well enough that the censorship does not hinder the show.





> this is an epic cover of Goodbye Baby that is a must watch
> 
> Ahem.
> 
> You can't twist fallacy definitions to suit your needs when you like.


_Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally._

Not only have I not twisted anything, I have not used hyperbole in the way your link suggests.





> Your entire argument is "No, you're wrong, you lose/I accept your concession" Despite plenty of evidence being given to you and you just slap it away and say it doesn't count.  Not only is that a poor argument, it's pretty childish. Sort of like using gifs and images to make a point like you're on 4chan, or resorting to pointing out vague fallacies when making them yourself then trying to weasel out of them and say they're not fallacies.


Because when you fail to properly refute or address a point, you concede it. Furthermore, you string together fallacies when improperly applying them to others, your favorite being the straw man to twist what others say. 

You've had numerous people refute you and you illogical arguments multiple times. Refusing to admit you're wrong, like when you shown a clear example of someone dying on-screen, is what's really childish.


----------



## Wan (Sep 22, 2011)

I should also point out that Katara didn't use the oasis water on Aang until they were on Appa escaping Ba Sing Se.  They would have had to meet up with Sokka, Toph, and the Earth King, find Appa, and ascend.  If Aang wasn't dead when he fell into Katara's arms he would have been dead by then.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

I blame myself. All I wanted to do was see other people's opinions on something that struck me as odd. Didn't realize it would turn into a seven page mess.

Come on guys, I know that there's nothing new after the flood of info we got after Comic-Con but Avatar isn't going to be any less awesome a show because of a handful of people with different opinions. It's already cemented it's place into Animation history, no 1 or 2 people are going to change that.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 22, 2011)

Oman said:


> So what part did the show not address again?



The whole original point was Katara was written inconsistently given the way she acted previously before Southern Raiders.  Even in the season 2 finale, no, she isn't obsessed about her mother's death and getting revenge.  That is entirely exclusive to Southern Raiders.  In that episode, she suddenly cares about getting revenge.

Speaking of which, no one ever did try to backpedal the Ty Lee example.  Funny.



> "That's the infirmary, and those soldiers are the lucky ones.  Every day the Fire Nation takes lives. People are dying, Aang! You could end it, now! Think about it."


Soldiers die in Avatar? Color me surprised.  Oh, not actually shown or anything, you mean, that might be too interesting and impactful.  Mentioning it in passing isn't the same thing at all. And considering that guy was a lying jerk, who knows if it wasn't just all a lie to guilt/trick Aang into using the Avatar State.



> The only one saying that it's stupid is you.  It's _very_ clear that Roku died that moment -- the scene cuts to Aang being born immediately afterwards, there's nothing to indicate Roku could have survived that, and indeed the very reason Sozin leaves him behind is because he knows Roku will die.  Absolutely no ambiguity in that scene, and it happens on screen.  Not gruesomely, but on screen.  You actually can't seem to comprehend that death doesn't have to be gruesome.


The fairy thing was a joke, I hope you know.  My point is yes, he died, but no, it's not show on screen.  What is shown on screen is a bunch of smoke clouds.   That is not an on screen death, sorry, that is an on screen cloud.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Bullshit it's a strawman!  Just because  you haven't said those specific words doesn't mean that it isn't readily  apparent that it's pretty much what you're saying.



...That's actually what a straw-man is.  Putting words into peoples  mouths, twisting words so they make an exaggerated claim that was never  said, but one you wish to tear down regardless.



> Even if you're using different words to say it. Every single  example you try to bring up using other shows has specifically centered  on how much more violent/bloody/dark they are in comparison to Avatar.   You're Fullmetal Alchemist clip up there being a perfect example.


Well yes, I have to use examples of shows which handle war well and show  the bad things about it to emphasis my point about how Avatar lacked  those things.  FMA is hardly Ichi the Killer, though.  It's pretty tame.



> It's also a perfect example, as Jena pointed out, that you  can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that that show (Fullmetal)  and the others you've used in your examples are aimed at a _completely different demographic of audience than Avatar is._


Except it is...



Jena said:


> Fullmetal Alchemist is _not_ a kid's show.
> It is not aimed at children.



Actually it is.

It ran in Monthly Shounen Gangan, a magazine aimed at young boys.  The  anime (Brotherhood) aired at.. 5:50 PM, I believe, if my mental math is  right.  Know what airs at 6:00? Pokemon.  

Sure, it airs on Adult Swim here.. but so does Bleach.. and Inuyasha..  Shin-chan... Detective Conan.. and other kids shows in Japan.  Japanese  kids shows can only be shown to adult Americans, apparently.  Avatar is pretty much a shounen anime if you used anime terms.  Just like Naruto and FMA.



			
				Superstarseven said:
			
		

> It's already cemented it's place into Animation history,



What gives you that idea? It was barely popular in America, but to claim it has a place in 'animation history' is laughable.  What for? Naruto, a show which you guys love to bash on (yet post on this forum ironically enough) is the one that's going to be remember in animation history more likely than Avatar, given it's worldwide hit status.


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 22, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Come on guys, I know that there's nothing new after the flood of info we got after Comic-Con but Avatar isn't going to be any less awesome a show because of a handful of people with different opinions. It's already cemented it's place into Animation history, no 1 or 2 people are going to change that.


Believe me, we all know how asinine and unimportant Akimichi Juro's arguments are in the grand scheme of things. Avatar is recognized as a great cartoon, as is Batman: TAS, and his opinion will not change that. Still, its blatantly dishonest and idiotic comments like


Akimichi Juro said:


> My point is yes, he died, but no, it's not show on screen.  What is shown on screen is a bunch of smoke clouds.   That is not an on screen death, sorry, that is an on screen cloud.


That compels some to reply regardless. Claiming that Roku didn't die on-screen, when clearly he did, while ignoring the other examples as well is just facepalm-worthy. It's why this guy gets refuted at every turn.


----------



## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Actually being a robot or a living animal/creature is a huge difference.



Tell that to Dinobot, Canadian not American though.

[YOUTUBE]Oifs6ulpd9A[/YOUTUBE]

And you were using Digimon as a source. Digimon are creatures made of Artificial Intelligence, bits and pieces of info, zeroes and ones. Not only that but it was clearly stated the Digimon would get reborn. In fact that is what happened to Ken's digimon, Wormon. Though some death's such as Wizardmon remained as he became a ghost. 

And although X9 was a robot, he was alive.

He even mentioned that he cared whether he lived or died, that was how he survived.

or how about Prowl from Transformers Animated.
[Youtube]kCaWXEv7th4[/Youtube]


----------



## Burke (Sep 22, 2011)

i think its amazing that you all, especially ben, are able to recall these parts of old shows.


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## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> You know, I thought that we could have a mini-discussion on the new Kung Fu Panda series using The Track Team as composers and Sifu Kisu as the Martial arts consultant. Everybody still wanted to argue back and forth so it's not as if someone tried to steer this thread into another direction. I guess a show about animals using martial arts doesn't appeal to anyone despite of the Avatar connection? I don't know.



I don't really know what to talk about with Kung Fu Panda. 

To be honest, I'm not really interested in watching that show. I liked the movie fine enough (still haven't gotten around to seeing the new one...) but I didn't think it was anything spectacular. 



And, yeah, I'm done. Honestly, this arguing shit is getting really boring.

It would be one thing if we were having a debate, because that's somewhat interesting, but it's all just "I say" vs "Well I say". 

I know that this is just not going to happen because it's the internet and everyone is ridiculously proud, but _could_ we all possibly just say "you have your opinion and I have mine" and be done with it? 

AJ, I don't agree with you, but you have your opinion and I have mine. 

Well, I attempted it, at least...


----------



## Noah (Sep 22, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> You know, I thought that we could have a mini-discussion on the new Kung Fu Panda series using The Track Team as composers and Sifu Kisu as the Martial arts consultant. Everybody still wanted to argue back and forth so it's not as if someone tried to steer this thread into another direction. I guess a show about animals using martial arts doesn't appeal to anyone despite of the Avatar connection? I don't know.



I wanted to comment on it, but all I could really come up with was "Awesome Avatar music, awful everything else."

Didn't know what else I could contribute.


----------



## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

I miss the days when heavy metal was played in the background of western cartoons. God I miss the 90s.

Anyways I loved Little Soldier Boy by Iroh during tales of Ba Sing se.


----------



## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> I miss the days when heavy metal was played in the background of western cartoons. God I miss the 90s.



I miss the days when TV shows had really catchy intros.

And I'm not just talking about cartoons-I mean in general. What happened to cheesy songs at the beginning? Now it's all like electronic piano melodies. Or even just three notes with the show's name on a title card.

I want more "Fresh Prince" and a little less "Glee".


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 22, 2011)

As much as I enjoyed the Kung-Fu Panda movies I like Jena have no real interest in the tv show, to be honest.



Jena said:


> I miss the days when TV shows had really catchy intros.
> 
> And I'm not just talking about cartoons-I mean in general. What happened to cheesy songs at the beginning? Now it's all like electronic piano melodies. Or even just three notes with the show's name on a title card.
> 
> I want more "Fresh Prince" and a little less "Glee".



This so much this. I like Glee I really do, but I want something catchy at the start of the show thank you.


----------



## Pseudo (Sep 22, 2011)

Jena said:


> I miss the days when TV shows had really catchy intros.
> 
> And I'm not just talking about cartoons-I mean in general. What happened to cheesy songs at the beginning? Now it's all like electronic piano melodies. Or even just three notes with the show's name on a title card.
> 
> I want more "Fresh Prince" and a little less "Glee".



Looking back now, Justice League's intro is the only one that didn't age and fall the way of the cheese for me. Almost all of my childhood shows had terrible intros. That's why I love Avatar's intro it's epic and straight to the point.


----------



## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> Looking back now, Justice League's intro is the only one that didn't age and fall the way of the cheese for me. Almost all of my childhood shows had terrible intros. That's why I love Avatar's intro it's epic and straight to the point.



[YOUTUBE]JPIsIUjVanQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

I was all set to fall back into responding to a completely stupid statement but I won't allow myself to do so. 

Any the MIB intro was straight to the point. Nothing really epic about it.
Anyway yes, a large number of TV shows just have the cold intro with the title card shown after what the premise of that particular episode will be about.

There isn't much in the way of catchy theme songs in the vein of say a show like _Friends_.


----------



## Pseudo (Sep 22, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Ben Grimm said:


> [YOUTUBE]JPIsIUjVanQ[/YOUTUBE]






I actually forgot this show existed for a minute Ben Grimm. It had an epic intro.

You want to see a "cold" opening?

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DorTxc1Wkno[/YOUTUBE]




A lot of shows from the 2000's had great openings. Samurai Jack's own was godly.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8CZB_sdGIE&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

This is an Intro

[YOUTUBE]wHKyY2DTEco[/YOUTUBE]

ng.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

I had to see if that intro was animated by Akom because it reminded me of X-men the animated series.


----------



## Wan (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> The whole original point was Katara was written inconsistently given the way she acted previously before Southern Raiders.  Even in the season 2 finale, no, she isn't obsessed about her mother's death and getting revenge.  That is entirely exclusive to Southern Raiders.  In that episode, she suddenly cares about getting revenge.



She never cared about revenge because she didn't think she _could_ get revenge, not until Zuko recognized the specific unit that did the attack 



> Soldiers die in Avatar? Color me surprised.  Oh, not actually shown or anything, you mean, that might be too interesting and impactful.  Mentioning it in passing isn't the same thing at all. And considering that guy was a lying jerk, who knows if it wasn't just all a lie to guilt/trick Aang into using the Avatar State.



The kitten killing slaughtering has continued, I see.

Did you actually click on the link I posted?  Here, in case you missed it.



We _see_ the wounded soldiers.  That's pretty impactful, especially shoving it in the face of a 12 year old kid.

And hold up.  Are you seriously suggesting soldiers _don't die at all_ in Avatar?  After 100 years of war, with human flamethrowers and boulder launchers along with the usual swords, spears, and arrows?  Just because we don't see people die in battle on screen is _no_ reason to claim that no one dies in the war at all.  Sure, Fong was being manipulative, but his motives came from that grim reality of war.  He didn't make it up!  There is no reason to think he was being untruthful in that moment.  None.  



> The fairy thing was a joke, I hope you know.  My point is yes, he died, but no, it's not show on screen.  What is shown on screen is a bunch of smoke clouds.   That is not an on screen death, sorry, that is an on screen cloud.



You do realize what that "smoke cloud" is, right?



Pyroclastic flows can reach temperatures of 1000 degrees celsius.  He's shown getting buried on screen, and that's well enough to know that he died and how he died.  What you're asking for really just seems to be gore for gore's sake.

...That's actually what a straw-man is.  Putting words into peoples  mouths, twisting words so they make an exaggerated claim that was never  said, but one you wish to tear down regardless.

Well yes, I have to use examples of shows which handle war well and show  the bad things about it to emphasis my point about how Avatar lacked  those things.  FMA is hardly Ichi the Killer, though.  It's pretty tame.



> Except it is...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Japanese and American cultures are different that way.  And don't just say that the censors in America are uptight.  Kids are sensitive to this kind of stuff.  I once asked a little boy if he watched Avatar, and he said no, because it was too scary.  I remember being terrified myself of Mufasa's death in "The Lion King" when I was little.

Also?  Avatar's rating in the US is TV-Y7.  FMA: Brotherhood?  TV-14.  I don't think FMA is made to be watched by 7 year olds, even in Japan.



> What gives you that idea? It was barely popular in America, but to claim it has a place in 'animation history' is laughable.  What for? Naruto, a show which you guys love to bash on (yet post on this forum ironically enough) is the one that's going to be remember in animation history more likely than Avatar, given it's worldwide hit status.



Barely popular...in America...I actually kind of wish it was that way.  Maybe then the godawful movie could have been avoided -- but then, we probably wouldn't be getting Legend of Korra.  Plenty of people I know watched the show and liked it.

Naruto is nothing special as far as Japanese animation goes, which is the standard it will ultimately be measured by.  Sure it's popular and somehow appeals to a lot of people, but as a work of fiction it's...just average, really.  The most distinct part of the manga is the character of Sasuke, and even then he's just as likely to draw haters as he is fans.  He was was a complex, sympathetic anti-hero, but he's lost it all by acting like a total douche in part 2.  It's fun at times, but ordinary.  It will be remembered for its popularity but not for innovation, creativity, and writing.

Avatar is extraordinary going by the standards of Western animation, developing characters, storylines, and the fantasy world unlike any other show (Ben Grimm incoming with an obscure example of a show in 3....2...1...).  Innovation?  Creativity?  Good writing?  All there.

Naruto will forever be in the shadow of more popular shonen animes like Dragonball and higher quality animes like Fullmetal Alchemist, and have to compete for the spotlight with contemporary animes like Bleach and One Piece.  There really is nothing to compete with Avatar for what it tries to do (maybe Thundercats, we'll see about that).  It's often mentioned in the same breath as other great western cartoons like Gargoyles and Batman: The Animated Series.  So yes, it does have a place in animation history, probably a more prominent one than Naruto.  But I will say that neither is really finished -- Naruto is still ongoing, and Avatar is being continued in "Legend of Korra".


----------



## Stunna (Sep 22, 2011)

I wish someone would section ban Juro.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro's trolling is subpar. Try to make it at least interesting.


----------



## Wan (Sep 22, 2011)

I'm gonna give him _one_ last chance to come clean on how wrong his arguments are.  If he doesn't I'm going to block him, no more point wasting time.


----------



## Stunna (Sep 22, 2011)

He's a troll. He's been using you as a means for +1 since the moment he stepped into the thread.


----------



## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

Stunna said:


> He's a troll. He's been using you as a means for +1 since the moment he stepped into the thread.



No, he's been using this thread as a platform for his "Why Japan is the Bestest Country in the World and Why America is the Worstest" doctrine.


----------



## Burke (Sep 22, 2011)

Lets take our minds off of this mean-ness with some fun facts.

#1 Tomarrow is Zach Tyler Eisens birthday!

#2 Zach Tyler is currently the same age Jack de Sena was at the start of the show


----------



## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Oman said:


> Avatar is extraordinary going by the standards of Western animation, developing characters, storylines, and the fantasy world unlike any other show (Ben Grimm incoming with an obscure example of a show in 3....2...1...).  Innovation?  Creativity?  Good writing?  All there.



Avatar was a great show, but don't be putting down other western animation.

Character development, I would give that to Beast Wars.
Storylines, I would give that to Exosquad, Shadow Raiders, Roughnecks and Wing Commander Academy
Fantasy World unlike any other of course. All fantasy worlds are different.

However I do put Avatar above Exosquad and Roughnecks in the fact it had better character development. Roughnecks despite its continuing storyline focused completely on Rico. Diz was just Rico's love interest. Gossard only had character development after he lost his eye. Doc was just there to be black (I'm serious Doc never did anything important the entire series), Raczak however did get development as Rico's teacher, Higgins was the reporter, T'Phai was there to show Rico hated aliens, though T'Phai and Bruto did develop a friendship, Bruto was more useful paralyzed than when he was able to walk.

However it does not have shit on the Beast Wars, unless you consider how Beast Machines ruined Beast Wars. Pray that the same fate doesn't happen to Avatar with Korra.


----------



## Wan (Sep 22, 2011)

I'm not putting down other Western shows, my point is that as the sum of its parts Avatar is unique among Western animation in a good way.  Naruto isn't really unique amongst Japanese animation.


----------



## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Unique, nothing is unique. Everything that has been done, has been done before.


----------



## Wan (Sep 22, 2011)

Notice the qualifier:  among western animation.

If you have an example of a show that tried doing everything that Avatar did and was as good at it or better, go ahead and name it (you named some that you claim are better at specific things, but not all).


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> And you were using Digimon as a source. Digimon are creatures made of Artificial Intelligence, bits and pieces of info, zeroes and ones. Not only that but it was clearly stated the Digimon would get reborn. In fact that is what happened to Ken's digimon, Wormon. Though some death's such as Wizardmon remained as he became a ghost.



Except Digimon are living creatures.  The entire point of the Digimon Kaiser arc was Ken realizing this when he thought Digimon were just data and the Digital World was just a game.  Hence his mental breakdown when he found out he was torturing and killing living creatures in the end and his spiral into depression, and road to redemption later on.  They're animals, but still alive, and not just robots (well there's robot Digimon, but still)

I was thinking more of the scene where Miyako and Iori come to terms with their resistance on killing living things, and realize that yes, you do need to kill to get things done and protect people, and clinging to ideological child-like belief that the world is black and white is not the right thing to do.  They grew up as the show went on, and came to terms with the harsh reality of the world, but not without a hard road and lesson.  Meanwhile, Aang wallows and pities himself and gets a free pass from making any hard choice of either killing Ozai and going against his morals, or letting him live and dealing with the consequences of anyone he kills after their fight will be on his shoulders.  Esentially, Aang is rewarded for being stubborn and childish and refusing to grow up.



Oman said:


> She never cared about revenge because she didn't think she _could_ get revenge, not until Zuko recognized the specific unit that did the attack



I don't really buy that.  She never gave the impression she actually  wanted revenge, especially the way she chatted with Jet in season 1 about it.  It sounds more like a retcon in Southern Raiders than anything else.



> We _see_ the wounded soldiers.  That's pretty impactful, especially shoving it in the face of a 12 year old kid.


Some guys with their arm in a sling? That's like the most basic injury  you see in movies to show someone is hurt; put a bandage on it.  Now, if  their arms were blown off or something, then yes, that would be maybe  impactful.



> And hold up.  Are you seriously suggesting soldiers _don't die at all_  in Avatar?  After 100 years of war, with human flamethrowers and  boulder launchers along with the usual swords, spears, and arrows?  Just  because we don't see people die in battle on screen is _no_ reason  to claim that no one dies in the war at all.  Sure, Fong was being  manipulative, but his motives came from that grim reality of war.  He  didn't make it up!  There is no reason to think he was being untruthful  in that moment.  None.


They only die when it happens before the show.  Which is a big knock  against any show trying to convey war.  Basically, people can die, but  they can't actally be killed, to put it in one way.



> Pyroclastic flows can reach temperatures of 1000 degrees celsius.   He's shown getting buried on screen, and that's well enough to know  that he died and how he died.  What you're asking for really just seems  to be gore for gore's sake.


That's more applying realism to cartoon physics.  Kind of like how  Firebenders shouldn't be able to bend fire at all because being that  close to fire would still burn you.  Or Roku/Aang/others getting close  to lava to begin with (I think they went to a volcano in season 1)





> Japanese and American cultures are different that way.  And don't  just say that the censors in America are uptight.  Kids are sensitive  to this kind of stuff.  I once asked a little boy if he watched Avatar,  and he said no, because it was too scary.  I remember being terrified  myself of Mufasa's death in "The Lion King" when I was little.


Copy paste that Nagai quote here again.

It's also worth noting Japan also has a much, much lower crime rate, especially violent crime rate, despite all these violent  and scary cartoons.  Americans really are just uptight.  Just look at  the Janet Jackson incident.  or how Jack Thompson and other media outlets blame video games for violence.  People like to blame everything except their own backwards parenting/society norms.



> Barely popular...in America...I actually kind of wish it was that  way.  Maybe then the godawful movie could have been avoided -- but  then, we probably wouldn't be getting Legend of Korra.  Plenty of people  I know watched the show and liked it.


The only reason the movie got made was because Shamalaymayan approached  Nick to make it (who only did so because his kid asked him to.. or something)  so they said okay.   But it got pretty poor to mediocre  ratings, especially for a Nickelodeon show where others were getting  like 3x/4x/etc+ what Avatar got.  Knowing 'plenty of people' who like it doesn't mean much.



> Naruto is nothing special as far as Japanese animation goes,  which is the standard it will ultimately be measured by.  Sure it's  popular and somehow appeals to a lot of people, but as a work of fiction  it's...just average, really.  The most distinct part of the manga is  the character of Sasuke, and even then he's just as likely to draw  haters as he is fans.  He was was a complex, sympathetic anti-hero, but  he's lost it all by acting like a total douche in part 2.  It's fun at  times, but ordinary.  It will be remembered for its popularity but not  for innovation, creativity, and writing.


It's a bit early to be saying that.  As you said, even if it's just by  it's sheer popularity, it will be remembered and has a foothold in the  animation industry.  Especially America, because it's like the most  bought manga here, and when it was on Toonami it was big as well.  Also,  well, all the anime conventions and forums and other fan stuff.  This forum alone  has hundreds of thousands of people on it, going by the little numbers  down at the bottom.



> Avatar is extraordinary going by the standards of Western animation


That's kind of the key word there.  Will it be remember in America?  Maybe.. though more people will probably remember the movie than the  cartoon, to be honest, since it was more mainstream.   But in animation as a whole, heck no, not even close.  Outside Disney/Pixar movies, American animation isn't really going to innovate anything



> Naruto will forever be in the shadow of more popular shonen  animes like Dragonball and higher quality animes like Fullmetal  Alchemist, and have to compete for the spotlight with contemporary  animes like Bleach and One Piece.  There really is nothing to compete  with Avatar for what it tries to do (maybe Thundercats, we'll see about  that).  It's often mentioned in the same breath as other great western  cartoons like Gargoyles and Batman: The Animated Series.


Funny thing about these is that people like to assume because people  post on the internet about them, they're popular and well remember.  You  can't use the internet to judge popularity, otherwise you'd think that  My Little Pony is actually legitimately popular and not just a meme (seriously, look at how low the ratings for the show are).   Look at the Gargoyles DVDs, they sold like garbage.  Also look at  Firefly (not a cartoon, but still), it gets mentioned a lot and has  'tons of fans' yet the movie bombed.  Going by the internet, Justin Beaver, Twilight, and Hannah Montana are  bashed a lot and aren't popular at all.  We all know that's not true,  though. 

Now, B:TAS, Gargoyles, and Avatar have VOCAL fans, sure, but that doesn't mean there's a lot of them.    As it stands, Ben 10 is the only current action cartoon that I might say will be remembered and be a footnote.  Just go to any store and you'll see aisles of those toys and merchandise everywhere.  I don't think Avatar ever got toys, or at least, good ones/more than a few.  Ben 10 is definitely the big action thing of this generation as far as America is concerned.  Transformers as well, but that's a bit cheating since it's more like a perpetual franchise with many shows and lines.



Ben Grimm said:


> However it does not have shit on the Beast  Wars, unless you consider how Beast Machines ruined Beast Wars. Pray  that the same fate doesn't happen to Avatar with Korra.



This is at least one thing we can agree on.  Beast Wars is probably my favorite Western cartoon.  It handled the whole _war_  aspect a lot better, even if they kind of cheated by being robots.  But  still, it did things very nicely.  First season is pretty weak, though,  and I don't think Beast Machines is as bad as everyone says.

I especially love Depthcharge and his not-so-heroic sacrifice against Rampage.

"Raw Energon! Right through your twisted spark! Take it! Take it straight to the Pit, you sickening piece of slag! *Explosion from High Heavens*"

I don't think I need to say anything about Dinobot other than.

 "Tell my tale to those who ask.  Tell it  truly, the bad deeds along with the good, and let me be judged  accordingly. The rest... is silence."


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## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Lets take our minds off of this mean-ness with some fun facts.
> 
> #1 Tomorrow is Zach Tyler Eisens birthday!



That's good to know. No one ever really talks about his performance but I thought he did great. Very solid actor all the way from beginning to end. 
This is the most recent interview with him - 

As to hearing his voice on Korra he says,


> I would love to if the opportunity came my way; I would definitely jump on the chance to, you know, maybe have a little cameo in it. That would be awesome.
> 
> I'm excited for that to come out. I want to see what they do with it because, you know, the problem with the original series was that even though it was so successful it had a definite storyline. There was a beginning and there was an end, so there wasn't much they could do with it. Once I heard about this I thought wow that's great because they will be pleasing the fans who wanted to see more and hopefully it can do as well and, hopefully, it can do even better.



By the way, seeing this - This message is hidden because *Akimichi Juro* is on your ignore list. - Is just so awesome. Perhaps others can do the same?


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## Pseudo (Sep 22, 2011)

AJ you win this thread. Quality trolling.


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## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Lets take our minds off of this mean-ness with some fun facts.
> 
> #1 Tomarrow is Zach Tyler Eisens birthday!
> 
> #2 Zach Tyler is currently the same age Jack de Sena was at the start of the show



Happy birthday to him.


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Except Digimon are living creatures.  The entire point of the Digimon Kaiser arc was Ken realizing this when he thought Digimon were just data and the Digital World was just a game.  Hence his mental breakdown when he found out he was torturing and killing living creatures in the end and his spiral into depression, and road to redemption later on.  They're animals, but still alive, and not just robots (well there's robot Digimon, but still)



What is living? X9 wanted to get out of the business with Aku, he made the choice to leave what he was doing. He knew what he did was wrong. However Lulu (Sweet Thing) was a greater desire for him than his conscience. He even knew that he was probably going to die if fought Samurai Jack. The Digimon are living things just as X9 was.

X9 was more than an animal. He had feelings, emotions and complex ideas that an animal could never have. He had all the qualities of a personality. 

He died.

Just robots are not organic, doesn't mean they're not alive. 

Is Andromon a living being?



> This is at least one thing we can agree on.  Beast Wars is probably my favorite Western cartoon.  It handled the whole _war_  aspect a lot better, *even if they kind of cheated by being robots.*  But  still, it did things very nicely.  First season is pretty weak, though,  and I don't think Beast Machines is as bad as everyone says.



They're transformers, robots in disguise. And the Spark is proof that they have souls (If you believe in souls that, I do). Dinobot died and joined the Matrix (Heaven).

There was no cheating.


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## Wan (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> I don't really buy that.  She never gave the impression she actually  wanted revenge, especially the way she chatted with Jet in season 1 about it.  It sounds more like a retcon in Southern Raiders than anything else.



She didn't want to take it out on individual Fire Nation citizens who had nothing to do with her mother's death.  Which is fine.  If a soldier killed someone you cared about, would you seek revenge on the whole



> Some guys with their arm in a sling? That's like the most basic injury  you see in movies to show someone is hurt; put a bandage on it.  Now, if  their arms were blown off or something, then yes, that would be maybe  impactful.



No.  It's acknowledging war and its effects, that's all it needs to do in order to be impactful.  Again, at this point you're just wanting gore for gore's sake.



> They only die when it happens before the show.  Which is a big knock  against any show trying to convey war.  Basically, people can die, but  they can't actally be killed, to put it in one way.



And how does that matter, for storytelling?  Aang's detachment from most campaigns of the war makes it all the more effective on him and the audience when he's confronted with the effects.  More is not necessarily better.



> That's more applying realism to cartoon physics.  Kind of like how  Firebenders shouldn't be able to bend fire at all because being that  close to fire would still burn you.  Or Roku/Aang/others getting close  to lava to begin with (I think they went to a volcano in season 1)



Avatar, overall, is very realistic with its physics, the one outstanding mistake being lava temperature.  (not firebending -- firebenders likely direct the heat away from their bodies as they firebend).  There is no reason to think the pyroclastic flow was unrealistic -- especially since it _killed_ Roku.  Y'know, on screen.



> Copy paste that Nagai quote here again.
> 
> It's also worth noting Japan also has a much, much lower crime rate, especially violent crime rate, despite all these violent  and scary cartoons.  Americans really are just uptight.  Just look at  the Janet Jackson incident.  or how Jack Thompson and other media outlets blame video games for violence.  People like to blame everything except their own backwards parenting/society norms.



I never mentioned crime rate, or suggested that violence in media leads to violent behavior in kids or anyone else.  What I said was that more mature shows _scare_ kids, making it unsuitable for them to watch.  You're arguing against something I never said or implied -- yet another strawman.

And you didn't respond to how Fullmetal Alchemist is rated TV-14 while Avatar is rated TV-Y7.  Would you suggest showing Fullmetal Alchemist to a 7 year old?



> The only reason the movie got made was because Shamalaymayan approached  Nick to make it (who only did so because his kid asked him to.. or something)  so they said okay.   But it got pretty poor to mediocre  ratings, especially for a Nickelodeon show where others were getting  like 3x/4x/etc+ what Avatar got.  Knowing 'plenty of people' who like it doesn't mean much.



Nickelodeon still had to pay for it, which they would only do if it was popular enough to justify the cost.  And Avatar regularly got millions of viewers, the finale in particular got 5.6 million viewers.  Sure, it didn't get as much as Nickelodeon's other shows, but neither did Naruto.



> It's a bit early to be saying that.  As you said, even if it's just by  it's sheer popularity, it will be remembered and has a foothold in the  animation industry.  Especially America, because it's like the most  bought manga here, and when it was on Toonami it was big as well.  Also,  well, all the anime conventions and forums and other fan stuff.  This forum alone  has hundreds of thousands of people on it, going by the little numbers  down at the bottom.



So yeah, just popularity.



> That's kind of the key word there.  Will it be remember in America?  Maybe.. though more people will probably remember the movie than the  cartoon, to be honest, since it was more mainstream.   But in animation as a whole, heck no, not even close.  Outside Disney/Pixar movies, American animation isn't really going to innovate anything



So...America sucks, that's your argument?  It's funny that you say that while simultaneously mentioning the foundation of animation on whole and the best animation studio today.

As far as being remembered goes, I'm pretty sure Spongebob will be more remembered than Naruto, btw.



> Funny thing about these is that people like to assume because people  post on the internet about them, they're popular and well remember.  You  can't use the internet to judge popularity, otherwise you'd think that  My Little Pony is actually legitimately popular and not just a meme (seriously, look at how low the ratings for the show are).   Look at the Gargoyles DVDs, they sold like garbage.  Also look at Firefly (not a cartoon, but still), it gets mentioned a lot and has  'tons of fans' yet the movie bombed.  Going by the internet, Justin Beaver, Twilight, and Hannah Montana are  bashed a lot and aren't popular at all.  We all know that's not true,  though.



Didn't you just mention Narutoforums' size as evidence of Naruto's popularity?  Hypocrite.  By the way, I never mentioned the internet as support for Avatar's popularity.



> Now, B:TAS, Gargoyles, and Avatar have VOCAL fans, sure, but that doesn't mean there's a lot of them.    As it stands, Ben 10 is the only current action cartoon that I might say will be remembered and be a footnote.  Just go to any store and you'll see aisles of those toys and merchandise everywhere.  I don't think Avatar ever got toys, or at least, good ones/more than a few.  Ben 10 is definitely the big action thing of this generation as far as America is concerned.  Transformers as well, but that's a bit cheating since it's more like a perpetual franchise with many shows and lines.



Nickelodeon absolutely botched the merchandising of Avatar, sure, probably because they weren't used to it.  They hadn't made a serious action show to merchandise since....since...I'm drawing a blank here.  Ben Grimm, got any examples?

Anyways, lots of merchandise just means that Ben 10 might be remembered for all the toys.  Not for the quality of storylines, writing, and characters.


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Oman said:


> Nickelodeon absolutely botched the merchandising of Avatar, sure, probably because they weren't used to it.  They hadn't made a serious action show to merchandise since....since...I'm drawing a blank here.  Ben Grimm, got any examples?
> 
> Anyways, lots of merchandise just means that Ben 10 might be remembered for all the toys.  Not for the quality of storylines, writing, and characters.



Nickolodeon had an action show for small kids under Nick Jr. called David the Gnome. Basically its about an gnome riding around a fox going on funny adventures.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 22, 2011)

So does Avatar have the same recommended audience rating as Spongebob...?


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> So does Avatar have the audience rating as Spongebob...?



Ratings, merchandise don't mean anything. Wing Commander Academy was closer to war than either Exosquad or Roughnecks. The humans killed Killrathi when it was unecessary. They were willing to kill the Delosians to kill the Killrathi. They betrayed an honorable Killrathi. Tried to commit genocide against by creating a disease. Killed their own people to save themselves, even when the person was innocent. Killed a warhero for the sake of propaganda. And here's the thing, the humans were the good guys on that show. It was a show geared towards kids and it cancelled after 13 episodes.

Judge a show for its content. Not for awards, not for ratings and not for merchandise.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 22, 2011)

^ I meant recommended audience age rating as in Y-7 or whatever you guys have in the States...?


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> ^ I meant recommended audience age rating as in Y-7 or whatever you guys have in the States...?



Spongebob is just Y. All ages can watch it.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 22, 2011)

You know, in some ways, this troll is a blessing, we wouldn't hear such wisdom otherwise >.>


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 22, 2011)

So what Im getting from all these arguments are basically:

1. Avatar: The Last Airbender has a cult status along the lines of Gargoyles and Batman:TAS.

2. Currently it has themes that other western shows Y-7 and below dont share or express.

3. Avatar is not as impactful in its themes as other animated shows overseas - namely Japan.

Thats it yeah? Without getting into the tedious details can people at least agree on this much...?


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## Heloves (Sep 22, 2011)

Is it all right to think Princess Azula was hot?


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## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> ^ I meant recommended audience age rating as in Y-7 or whatever you guys have in the States...?



Yeah, kid's programs are rated barely slightly more sensibly than movies are. (IMO)

This describes them all, just in case anyone was burning with curiosity:





ReikaiDemon said:


> You know, in some ways, this troll is a blessing, we wouldn't hear such wisdom otherwise >.>



Ah yes...._wisdom_ is what we're calling it?


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> So what Im getting from all these arguments are basically:
> 
> 1. Avatar: The Last Airbender has a cult status along the lines of Gargoyles and Batman:TAS.



I would say it may have an even bigger cult following than Batman or Gargoyles thanks to the fangirls. Gargoyles and Batman was geared more to a male audience.



> 2. Currently it has themes that other western shows Y-7 and below dont share or express.
> 
> ?



Can't agree on this. There are plenty of shows from the 90s with heavy themes.



> 3. Avatar is not as impactful in its themes as other animated shows overseas - namely Japan.


It depends on the show. There are some shows in Japan that are inferior to Avatar. Some were superior.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 22, 2011)

Jena said:


> Yeah, kid's programs are rated barely slightly more sensibly than movies are. (IMO)
> 
> This describes them all, just in case anyone was burning with curiosity:



Ah okay, so Avatar pretty much fits *TV-Y7-FV:*



> _(Directed to children 7 and older with fantasy violence in shows)
> 
> When a show has noticeably more fantasy violence, it is assigned the TV-Y7-FV rating. Action-adventure shows such as Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Pok?mon, G.I. Joe: Renegades, Sonic X, Transformers: Prime, Yin Yang Yo!, The Powerpuff Girls and The Amazing World of Gumball have been given this rating. _



While Full Metal Alchemist would be *TV-PG*


> _This rating signifies that the program may be unsuitable for younger children without the guidance of a parent. Many parents may want to watch it with their younger children. Various game shows and most reality shows are rated TV-PG for their suggestive dialogue, suggestive humor, and/or coarse language.
> 
> Some anime are given this rating, such as Dragon Ball Z, some episodes of the uncut version of Dragon Ball Z Kai, Dragon Ball GT, Fullmetal Alchemist and Full Metal Panic. Many prime-time series are given this rating, such as Everybody Loves Raymond, The King of Queens and The Simpsons._



So in the category of *TV-Y7-FV:* Avatar expresses themes that other shows usually dont.  Fair enough.

Akimichi Juro would be saying animes in the *TV-PG* express them better in his opinion. 

People either agree or disagree with his opinion,  but otherwise there shouldnt be much left to be said right...?


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## Narcissus (Sep 22, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> People either agree or disagree with his opinion,  but otherwise there shouldnt be much left to be said right...?



There wouldn't be, if he wasn't lying about facts of the show to try and make his arguments against it.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Can't agree on this. There are plenty of shows from the 90s with heavy themes.



Thats why I said "currently."



> It depends on the show. There are some shows in Japan that are inferior to Avatar. Some were superior.



Well I noticed he mentioned FMA, so he would be stating the superior shows in some of his arguments.  

I mean I dont want go into every single point, but of the three points I mentioned I'm fine to agree with that and  just let it be.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 22, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> i think its amazing that you all, especially ben, are able to recall these parts of old shows.



He clearly is an extremely avid fan of those series, which I certainly believe is an admirable trait. I myself have asked him for information when I cannot recall certain details, or for recommendations if I am seeking a new series.



LegendaryBeauty said:


> Akimichi Juro's trolling is subpar. Try to make it at least interesting.



A very fitting statement for a user with images of Princess Azula in their avatar and signature  (and I intend that statement as a compliment, not as an insult, to avoid any miscommunication).

As for this intense debate, while some users here may find it to be annoying, I believe that the fact that people are still having such intense debates about the series even long after it has ended is equally evidence that the series was complex and well-written as it is evidence that some users here are fond of intense debates, and for that feat, the creators of the series should be commended, in my mind.



Ben Grimm said:


> I would say it may have an even bigger cult following than Batman or Gargoyles thanks to the fangirls. Gargoyles and Batman was geared more to a male audience.



Could you please elaborate on that statement?


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## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> People either agree or disagree with his opinion,  but otherwise there shouldnt be much left to be said right...?



In theory 

(Also, just as a note with TV shows: they're usually rated by episode. So if a series' episodes are generally rated TV-PG, then the show is considered TV-PG. But if an episode is particularly violent it can be rated TV-14 or, likewise, if an episode is particularly "clean" it can be rated TV-Y7-FV. This really isn't important, but just in case anyone was unclear about how the TV rating systems work in the US.)


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Could you please elaborate on that statement?



Why do you think Zuko doesn't wear a shirt. Why do you think the show has romance in it. They had Aang and Katara walking through a cave of love for pity's sake. Sokka kissed Yue full on the mouth. Aang kissed Katara. Zuko and Mai were making out and even Azula was disgusted. Hell Sokka got put in a dress.

Sure Gargoyles had Eliza and Goliath, but it was mostly hush hush. Batman never had any strong romantic love interest except for Mask of the Phantasm.


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 22, 2011)

Eliza and Goliath was hush Hush? that relationship was getting down right blatant towards the end there man lol


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Eliza and Goliath was hush Hush? that relationship was getting down right blatant towards the end there man lol



Goliath Chronicles, Season 3 should be forgotten.

Though I did like the fact that Thailog added Eliza's DNA to his mate and that Eliza wore Belle's dress during the Halloween episode.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

The Goliath and Eliza coupling was made super clear in the comics.


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## LegendaryBeauty (Sep 22, 2011)

Gargoyles had a cult following? It seemed a much darker show than most cartoons, from what I remember.



Heloves said:


> Is it all right to think Princess Azula was hot?


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> What is living? X9 wanted to get out of the business with Aku, he made the choice to leave what he was doing. He knew what he did was wrong. However Lulu (Sweet Thing) was a greater desire for him than his conscience. He even knew that he was probably going to die if fought Samurai Jack. The Digimon are living things just as X9 was.
> 
> X9 was more than an animal. He had feelings, emotions and complex ideas that an animal could never have. He had all the qualities of a personality.
> 
> ...



If there's no difference then why is it only acceptable to kill robots and not living creatures/humans? Why did the dubbers feel the need to censor Digimon getting shot in the head with guns and getting their brains blown out if it was just the same as Samurai Jack slicing up robots? Clearly people do say there's a difference from breaking your computer and killing your dog.



> Is Andromon a living being?


Yes, since he's half human and half machine.



Oman said:


> No.  It's acknowledging war and its effects, that's  all it needs to do in order to be impactful.  Again, at this point  you're just wanting gore for gore's sake.



If that's what you want to call it, then so be it.  I suppose Tolkien is  a gore fiend as well then, since he actually had people die rather than  just have soldiers bandaged up and stuff.  I'm just glad every other  series but Avatar thinks 'gore for gore sake' is a good motto.  I'll  continue to enjoy my heathenistic Fullmetal Alchemist.



> And how does that matter, for storytelling?  Aang's detachment  from most campaigns of the war makes it all the more effective on him  and the audience when he's confronted with the effects.  More is not  necessarily better.


Because it cheapens any feel of danger or threat, so the story is less  impactful.  We knew full well Jet wouldn't kill a village, because the  censors wouldn't allow it (something a show like Animaniacs liked to  poke fun of often) So since we know no would die in Avatar (on screen)  because of the low violence levels, as opposed to a show where death is a  common thing, none of the characters feel like they're in danger, or  the story will ever go there.  Any attempt at invoking those feelings  would be met with failure since any audience with half a brain will know  better.  Kids wont, and admittedly kids are the target audience for  Avatar, but still.



> Avatar, overall, is very realistic with its physics, the one  outstanding mistake being lava temperature.  (not firebending --  firebenders likely direct the heat away from their bodies as they  firebend).  There is no reason to think the pyroclastic flow was  unrealistic -- especially since it _killed_ Roku.  Y'know, on screen.


You keep thinking that I suppose.  Evil cloud monsters are pretty dangerous, I suppose.



> I never mentioned crime rate, or suggested that violence in media  leads to violent behavior in kids or anyone else.  What I said was that  more mature shows _scare_ kids, making it unsuitable for them to  watch.  You're arguing against something I never said or implied -- yet  another strawman.


Actually I used that as a point that apparently those Japanese kids shows aren't found to be 'scary' or mentally damaging.



> And you didn't respond to how Fullmetal Alchemist is rated  TV-14 while Avatar is rated TV-Y7.  Would you suggest showing Fullmetal  Alchemist to a 7 year old?


FMA is only rated TV-14 in America, because of our backwards standards.   In Japan, it's a kid's show that aired right before Pokemon.  So yes,  young kids do watch it.



> Nickelodeon still had to pay for it, which they would only do  if it was popular enough to justify the cost.  And Avatar regularly got  millions of viewers, the finale in particular got 5.6 million viewers.   Sure, it didn't get as much as Nickelodeon's other shows, but neither  did Naruto.


When you have a hit director behind it, of course they'd shell out money.  

And 'millions of viewers' isn't much, given what Nick's other shows got (multiple times that much) 



> So...America sucks, that's your argument?  It's funny that you  say that while simultaneously mentioning the foundation of animation on  whole and the best animation studio today.


American animation is pretty awful, sure, but don't judge a country just  by it's cartoons.  I only list Disney and Pixar for technical  achievements.  Toy Story being the first CG movie, for example.  You'll  never see a Grave of the Fireflies out of either of them or anything  (but maybe that's just too 'gore for the sake of gore')



> As far as being remembered goes, I'm pretty sure Spongebob will be more remembered than Naruto, btw.


Probably because it'll still be on TV even after Naruto is over.  Lol.  America, I presume you mean.  Definitely not world-wide.



> So yeah, just popularity.


Not at all.  You missed the point it seems.



> Didn't you just mention Narutoforums' size as evidence of  Naruto's popularity?  Hypocrite.  By the way, I never mentioned the  internet as support for Avatar's popularity.


It's different when you actually have numbers to back it up.  "a bunch of people I know" isn't a numerical statistic.



> Anyways, lots of merchandise just means that Ben 10 might be  remembered for all the toys.  Not for the quality of storylines,  writing, and characters.


If you say so.  Kids seem to love it and support it more than Avatar though.


Waking Dreamer said:


> So what Im getting from all these arguments are basically:
> 
> 1. Avatar: The Last Airbender has a cult status along the lines of Gargoyles and Batman:TAS.
> 
> ...



Pretty much.  Avatar, as far as US animation goes, is one of the few  that attempt to be more thna throwaway kid's fare.  But in the end, compared to the stuff Japan makes (the anime it was inspired by) it's  not even a footnote or noteworthy.  Anything it does you can find done multiple times better in kids shows in Japan.


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> If there's no difference then why is it only acceptable to kill robots and not living creatures/humans? Why did the dubbers feel the need to censor Digimon getting shot in the head with guns and getting their brains blown out if it was just the same as Samurai Jack slicing up robots?




Did you not get the part where X9 was stated to have been special. A scientist gave X9 emotions. And when Samurai Jack killed him, if you look at Jack's face, Jack genuinely feels sorry for what he did.

And Jack killed the viking and he killed Fall. Niether of them were robots



> Clearly people do say there's a difference from breaking your computer and killing your dog.



What a terrible analogy, my computer is not sentient. My computer doesn't have feelings. My computer does not think.

X9 did all of this.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Why do you think Zuko doesn't wear a shirt. Why do you think the show has romance in it. They had Aang and Katara walking through a cave of love for pity's sake. Sokka kissed Yue full on the mouth. Aang kissed Katara. Zuko and Mai were making out and even Azula was disgusted. Hell Sokka got put in a dress.



I shall agree with you about the scenes of the male characters being topless appealing to female viewers, but why do you say that the other instances of romance were intended for females? I am male, but I still appreciate romance in a story, as it helps to make the characters feel more realistic and detailed; in fact, one of my most common laments about most _shonen_ manga is that they often have little or no romance (whereas most of the _shojo_ manga that I have read have too much romance and too little action; if only there could be a series that balances the two ), so it was refreshing for me to see a series that actually blended both elements.


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## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> FMA is only rated TV-14 in America, because of our backwards standards.   In Japan, it's a kid's show that aired right before Pokemon.  So yes,  young kids do watch it.



I don't know if this is true or not, but if it is...talk about targeting the absolute wrong crowd.

Not because of the violence stuff [because honestly that argument giving me a headache] but I mean in terms of themes and content.

Hell, I started FMA when I was _13_ and I didn't understand half of the underlying shit that was going on until I reread it at an older age. 

For that show's sake, I really hope it wasn't aired in the same time slot as pokemon. 
I'm an FMA whoreslut fan and the thought of it being shafted into "kid's programing" just because its protagonist is young makes me want to hurt things.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 22, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Did you not get the part where X9 was stated  to have been special. A scientist gave X9 emotions. And when Samurai  Jack killed him, if you look at Jack's face, Jack genuinely feels sorry  for what he did.



If you really want to say killing 'sentient robots' is the same as  killing people or animals, then I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to  disagree.  It just sounds like you're trying to make it sound darker and  grittier than it really is.  'It had feelings' or no.  




Jena said:


> I don't know if this is true or not, but if it is...talk about targeting the absolute wrong crowd.
> 
> Not because of the violence stuff [because honestly that argument giving me a headache] but I mean in terms of themes and content.
> 
> ...



Nah, not the same time slot.

Half an hour before 

But I don't rellly see the big deal.  It has a lot of shounen manga traits and is pretty much a kids show.  What's so special about the themes?  You can find those in a lot of anime like Naruto and One Piece as well.  Kids over there can understand those just fine.. maybe it's only a shock to us because when we think of kids shows we think of Dora the Explorer/Spongebob/Ben 10/Avatar 

I wonder how you feel about the PreCure franchise though... that's aimed at very young girls in Japan, and, well...

[YOUTUBE]b19yWkHELRM[/YOUTUBE]

Ain't Barbie/Bratz/My Little Pony, that's for sure.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

That is most definitely not a show for young kids. I'm not sure if it's America with the backwards standards in that situation.


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## Wan (Sep 22, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> By the way, seeing this - This message is hidden because *Akimichi Juro* is on your ignore list. - Is just so awesome. Perhaps others can do the same?



Wow, you're right.  It does _wonders_ for my orthostatic hypotension.


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## Glued (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> If you really want to say killing 'sentient robots' is the same as  killing people or animals, then I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to  disagree.  It just sounds like you're trying to make it sound darker and  grittier than it really is.  'It had feelings' or no.



Why not, if it's sentient and can make choices that are derived from desires from other desires. If it can learn. If it can can feel. 

Than that is a person.

Or have you never watched Stephen Spielberg's A.I.

[YOUTUBE]sqS83f-NUww[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Sep 22, 2011)

FMA in Japan is probably viewed like the Simpsons are in western countries.

It has multiple layers where older audiences will get and appreciate the deeper themes (e.g. existentialism, finding the purpose of life), while the kids will just like the action of fiery explosions and various transmutations.



Ben Grimm said:


> Why not, if it's sentient and can make choices that are derived from desires from other desires. If it can learn. If it can can feel.
> 
> Than that is a person.
> 
> ...



Again, older audiences will appreciate the boundary blending of sentient life and sentient artificial-life. 

But for the kids and the networks - a robot death is actually different to a human death...since robots are very science-fictional and not that transferable for kids in the real world. Robots can be seen as sci-fi equivalents to fantasy dragons and giants in a kids show. Slaying bad dragons simply isnt as horrific as killing another human on the opposing side.

Samurai Jack is another show I immensely enjoy but just from the body count of robots in the show compared to normal people....?

The networks obviously see a difference and they're okay with that. Since Samurai Jack drops robots like flies every other episode.


----------



## Jena (Sep 22, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Nah, not the same time slot.
> 
> Half an hour before
> 
> But I don't rellly see the big deal.  It has a lot of shounen manga traits and is pretty much a kids show.  What's so special about the themes?  You can find those in a lot of anime like Naruto and One Piece as well.  Kids over there can understand those just fine.. maybe it's only a shock to us because when we think of kids shows we think of Dora the Explorer/Spongebob/Ben 10/Avatar



No, the reason why it irritates me is because you can't understand what war, loyalty, growing up, responsibility, and love are when you're 7 years old. No matter how smart you are or how many books you've read about the subjects. Even if you took all that out, one of the main themes of FMA is about growing up. You can't understand what "growing up" is or recognize it when you're in the process of doing it.

The reason _why_ it bugs me is because FMA is then essentially being stripped of narrative content and merit and packaged as a fun adventure show. With alchemy. Fun.

And who said that kid's shows can't have dark themes? I didn't. 

I like Naruto as well, but Naruto doesn't even come _close_ to FMA when it comes to complexity.

Whatever. I guess it just annoys me. It's kind of like saying that Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and 1984 are for the same age range because they both contain the same amount of overt violence. And that someone who can read Harry Potter will be able to read 1984 and automatically understand all the themes.


And damn you you've dragged me back into arguing. 

I'm done, I swear.


*tl;dr* basically what Waking Dreamer just said.


EDIT: Wow, I used like 3 different synonyms for the word "annoys". I'm tired.


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## Wan (Sep 22, 2011)

Jena said:


> Whatever. I guess it just annoys me. It's kind of like saying that Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and 1984 are for the same age range because they both contain the same amount of overt violence. And that someone who can read Harry Potter will be able to read 1984 and automatically understand all the themes.



Nah, it just means that since Animaniacs and Batman: The Animated Series both aired on WB Kids, they both had the same target audience.  _Nothing_ that was in Batman: The Animated Series would scare a kid who could watch Animaniacs.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 22, 2011)

I would never put Dora the Explorer and Spongebob in the same category with Avatar. Can't just lump in all those shows which target different age groups together.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 23, 2011)

Jena said:


> Ah yes...._wisdom_ is what we're calling it?


When the bar is this low, yes...

Otherwise, it would just be common sense >.>


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 23, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> That is most definitely not a show for  young kids. I'm not sure if it's America with the backwards standards in  that situation.



PreCure? It definitely is.


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## Noah (Sep 23, 2011)

Dude just likened the American child's maturity and understanding to screaming racial epithets into a headset while playing a FPS.

Argument is over. Everyone can go home now. The only way this falls any lower is if someone invokes Godwin's Law.


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## VerdantVenus (Sep 23, 2011)

Hitler liked Avatar.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 23, 2011)

The moment he was being born there was a guy walking by and you know what he said? "Hey look, there's some *----* coming out of some* -----*'s *-----*."


Sorry, that one's been building up and I didn't know where to use it.


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## Wan (Sep 23, 2011)

Ok...what to talk about...I know.  While the show was very plot-heavy, it had a few "breather" episodes, episodes that did little to push the plot forward but instead focused on humor and character development.  Three episodes in particular come to mind: Tales of Ba Sing Se, Nightmares and Daydreams, and The Ember Island Players.  Which do y'all think was the best episode?  I think Tales of Ba Sing Se was best, mainly because of Iroh's heartbreaking tale.  Zuko's tale, Momo's tale, and Sokka's tale were great too.  Aang's tale and Katara and Toph's tale were...ok.  Nightmares and Daydreams was _hilarious_, with Aang's hallucinations rivaling the zaniness of Sokka on cactus juice, so I would place it second.  Ember Island Players was a recap of the whole show done in a silly way, directly poking fun at the show and the fanbase.  I could have done without it, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

Also, I recently realized something:  One criticism that Avatar often gets, at least when compared to anime, is that it has a good deal of "filler".  Book 2 pretty much never gets accused of this, but books 1 and 3 often are.  I happened across an episode list of "Naruto", though, and noticed that by episode 20, the Naruto anime had only just finished the Zabuza arc and was beginning the Chunin exams.  How much plot happened during the Zabuza arc?  While escorting Tazuna, they fight Zabuza.  Fight ends, Team 7 trains for a few days.  Team 7 then fights Zabuza & Haku again and win.  That's, like...two Avatar episodes. I'm serious.  The Storm and the Blue Spirit had about as much plot and character background as Naruto got in the whole Zabuza arc.  It can be summed up as such:  Sokka gets caught in a storm at sea, and so does Prince Zuko's ship.  Zuko's ship makes it out as Aang and Katara rescue Sokka, but he and Katara become ill.  Aang goes to ask a herbalist for a cure, but is captured by Fire Nation forces.  Zuko, disguised as the Blue Spirit, rescues Aang.

Dude, Avatar can _have_ its "filler" if it can stuff that much plot into just a couple episodes of the first season in comparison to a well-known anime.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 23, 2011)

Well the main difference between those two shows is that one is an adapted work. 
The filler episodes in Naruto are actually made to fill time. Within that context, the term makes total and complete sense. They're finished with A but they can't get to B quite yet so the objective is to take that long stretch of highway and try to enjoy the ride until you can get to the destination. There's a bit of a roadtrip to take.

In Avatar you've got you're One off's/Standalones where you can deviate from the path a little bit, enjoy the sights but it's all a part of the journey. Those episodes aren't strictly made to fill time and there's absolutely no panic in the writer's room as to what to come up with once that inevitable break in the main storyline happens.


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 23, 2011)

All right Juro, i've got to ask this before I put you on ignore, since quite frankly your getting ridiculous

When does a Machine become more than just a machine? If it can think for itself and act and move and comprehend, at what point does sentience truely begin? 

You keep bringing up it's perfectly okay too kill robots, because they're not alive...yes because they're not organic squishies to the cenaors but still...what something is in the long run does not matter to story if said enemy had displayed true sentience ala X9 did as Ben has said


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## Glued (Sep 23, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> But for the kids and the networks - a robot death is actually different to a human death...since robots are very science-fictional and not that transferable for kids in the real world. *Robots can be seen as sci-fi equivalents to fantasy dragons and giants in a kids show.* Slaying bad dragons simply isnt as horrific as killing another human on the opposing side.



Yes and Juro was comparing it to Digimon, who were basically giants, and dragons.

Not FMA, not Naruto, but Digimon.


----------



## Jena (Sep 23, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Who says kids can't?  I think people underestimate kids.. that's why when I play on Xbox Live I hear 8 year  olds call me the N word when I kill them in Gears of War.  Also given  how kids in elementary school and Jr. High have sex at a younger age each year, or how little kids get in trouble for 'sexting'.  Yeah, I  think we're at the point kids aren't as innocent as we think.   Not as if we weren't either... I  remember watching Child's Play as a little kid.  Scary? Sure, but it's a  horror movie.



LMFAO

Ok, you don't know what maturity is.

I'm done now. *For real*. I can't take any more.













@ Oman: I always felt that people use the word "filler" too liberally.
Avatar wasn't adapted from anything, so technically it can't have filler. It just has episodes that "aren't plot relevant". 

Personally, these never really bothered me. Sure some of them were...not amazing, but I thought that even the superflous episodes were still pretty entertaining.


----------



## masamune1 (Sep 23, 2011)

Oman said:


> Also, I recently realized something:  One criticism that Avatar often gets, at least when compared to anime, is that it has a good deal of "filler".  Book 2 pretty much never gets accused of this, but books 1 and 3 often are.  I happened across an episode list of "Naruto", though, and noticed that by episode 20, the Naruto anime had only just finished the Zabuza arc and was beginning the Chunin exams.  How much plot happened during the Zabuza arc?  While escorting Tazuna, they fight Zabuza.  Fight ends, Team 7 trains for a few days.  Team 7 then fights Zabuza & Haku again and win.  That's, like...two Avatar episodes. I'm serious.  The Storm and the Blue Spirit had about as much plot and character background as Naruto got in the whole Zabuza arc.  It can be summed up as such:  Sokka gets caught in a storm at sea, and so does Prince Zuko's ship.  Zuko's ship makes it out as Aang and Katara rescue Sokka, but he and Katara become ill.  Aang goes to ask a herbalist for a cure, but is captured by Fire Nation forces.  Zuko, disguised as the Blue Spirit, rescues Aang.
> 
> Dude, Avatar can _have_ its "filler" if it can stuff that much plot into just a couple episodes of the first season in comparison to a well-known anime.



_Naruto_ was dealing with a setting up a much bigger story with a much larger cast. It also had a more complex magic system and went into detail even with only single techniques. 

_The Storm_ and _Blue Spirit_ gave character background and development to Aang and Zuko. Land of Waves gave character background and development to Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura, Zabuza, Haku, Inari, Tazuna, and the Land of Waves itself, and even the wider ninja world and its politics and harsh realities, despite being set entirely in a backwater. It gave development to some stuff that it would only give scant reference to in future, and other stuff that had little to nothing to do with the immediate plot of that arc.

And it finished at episode 20 but it started at episode 6, so its only 14 episodes long. Yet you've got a situation where a character like Haku is at least as complex as someone like Azula (probably more), and Zabuza is more badass and developed than Admiral Zhao or even Fire Lord Ozai, despite those two being the main villains of the first series and the entire story.

Don't exaggerate your case. There's a reason _Naruto_ is so popular and a reason people don't like it as much as they used to, and Land of Waves is one of the reasons to like it. The current _Naruto_ is a shadow of its former self because its lacking stuff that was in the Land of Waves, and the rest of Part 1. It had a large cast but found time to give character and background and motivation to so many of them- Sasuke right now would have been more bearable to most people if the rest of the cast were given more love, more plot and development for themselves; his problem isn't that he has too much, its that the others don't get enough.

But they used to, and they got it in arcs like that. Don't be so disengenous.


----------



## Wan (Sep 23, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> _Naruto_ was dealing with a setting up a much bigger story with a much larger cast. It also had a more complex magic system and went into detail even with only single techniques.
> 
> _The Storm_ and _Blue Spirit_ gave character background and development to Aang and Zuko. Land of Waves gave character background and development to Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura, Zabuza, Haku, Inari, Tazuna, and the Land of Waves itself, and even the wider ninja world and its politics and harsh realities, despite being set entirely in a backwater. It gave development to some stuff that it would only give scant reference to in future, and other stuff that had little to nothing to do with the immediate plot of that arc.



Just what did the Wave arc do to set up the story and cast?  Zabuza had nothing to do with Orochimaru or Akatsuki.  The characters in the Wave arc went largely unused for the rest of the series, not introducing the other Konoha nin until the Chunin exams.  Until then, we just had Team 7, hardly much larger than Team Avatar in Book 1.



> And it finished at episode 20 but it started at episode 6, so its only 14 episodes long. Yet you've got a situation where a character like Haku is at least as complex as someone like Azula (probably more), and Zabuza is more badass and developed than Admiral Zhao or even Fire Lord Ozai, despite those two being the main villains of the first series and the entire story.



Zuko and Aang got more development in those two episodes than Haku and Zabuza got in the whole arc.  Going slow does not automatically give them more development.



> Don't exaggerate your case. There's a reason _Naruto_ is so popular and a reason people don't like it as much as they used to, and Land of Waves is one of the reasons to like it. The current _Naruto_ is a shadow of its former self because its lacking stuff that was in the Land of Waves, and the rest of Part 1. It had a large cast but found time to give character and background and motivation to so many of them- Sasuke right now would have been more bearable to most people if the rest of the cast were given more love, more plot and development for themselves; his problem isn't that he has too much, its that the others don't get enough.
> 
> But they used to, and they got it in arcs like that. Don't be so disengenous.



You know, I didn't call Naruto _bad_ because of it.  I was just pointing out that early on in two episodes Avatar could do as much plot progression as Naruto did in fourteen episodes.  There's just a lot more material to the story, both in the first twenty episodes and in all sixty one episodes compared to Naruto's first sixty one episodes.


----------



## masamune1 (Sep 23, 2011)

Oman said:


> Just what did the Wave arc do to set up the story and cast?  Zabuza had nothing to do with Orochimaru or Akatsuki.  The characters in the Wave arc went largely unused for the rest of the series, not introducing the other Konoha nin until the Chunin exams.  Until then, we just had Team 7, hardly much larger than Team Avatar in Book 1.



It set up the themes of ninja being human weapons and Zabuza's ideal that they should try and become something other than, or more than human, which is more or less the recurring theme in Orochimaru and Akatsuki. We learnt about the other five major villages and the titles of their leaders, and about the "Bloody Mist". But mostly it was used to help Team 7 gel together, and let Naruto and Sasuke get KN0 and the Sharingan, respectively (which was also set up, leading into Orochimaru, via Kakashi). 

We also got the nice dichotomy between what was a fairly comic, kiddy show up to that point, and the more harsh realities and serious themes introduced in the form of Zabuza and the brutal backgrounds of Haku and the Land of Waves. Though Oro was to prove a much bigger evil bastard, this arc set the tone for what was to follow.

No, the characters in the Land of Waves weren't used much after that arc, but you said that there was more development in those two episodes of _Avatar_, and that wasn't true. The Land of Waves got plenty of development for a wide range of characters, and even though many of them were not seen for years and years later, and then as cameos, that only adds to it. It makes for a more engrossing story and it helps in the world building.



> Zuko and Aang got more development in those two episodes than Haku and Zabuza got in the whole arc.  Going slow does not automatically give them more development.



By that logic, Zuko and Aang didn't get that much development _before_
those episodes. Though Zabuza and Haku aren't main characters; the other characters (main and minor) got development over the story as well. Point is, there was a lot more going on than your simplistic summary.

Also thinking about it, _Blue Spirit_ didn't really give that much development either. It was only the last minute or so, when the identity of the Spirit was revealed. Even then, it wasn't really _development;_ it was more like it was setting development up, since all it did was introduce (or rather, highlight) the possibility of Zuko being Aang's friend. Most of the story was Zuko just trying to capture Aang. Again, even if this time he was trying to capture him from Zhao. 



> You know, I didn't call Naruto _bad_ because of it.  I was just pointing out that early on in two episodes Avatar could do as much plot progression as Naruto did in fourteen episodes.  There's just a lot more material to the story, both in the first twenty episodes and in all sixty one episodes compared to Naruto's first sixty one episodes.



'Cept _Naruto's_ story is on a totally different scale, with a bigger cast and different aims. With _Avatar_ we knew what the story was about pretty much from the get go (Aang has to train to beat the Fire Lord); with _Naruto_ Akatsuki isn't even introduced until after a gigantic second arc, and its not at all clear how important they will be. 

So really, your point is a bit disengenous. _Avatar_ got more plot done because it had less plot to work with, and less time to do it. _Naruto's_ best moments were when it was less about the plot and more about the characters. Going slow does not automatically make a series better, but neither does going fast. _Naruto_ and _Avatar_, despite obvious similarities, had different goals and objectives and worked on very different scales, and thats why _Avatar_ got done what it got done in the time it did.


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 23, 2011)

Whoa there Oman. Zabuza and Haku were one of the strongest elements of part 1. It's the reason why many say Kishimoto started so strong before the massive decline of his manga.

They were the first two who demonstrated what the world of Naruto was like, and helped the main character set his way in life. The characterization of Zabuza and Haku was really well done too, tragic as they were. Fans really felt for those two when they died. So they had a significant impact even if they were not the Big Bads.

On another note, what people are failing to realize about the AI situation is how incredible it is to take a non-human entity and humanize it to the point where the audience feels for it as if it really were a human. Most children cartoons don't do that, which is why it was truly significant when Samurai Jack did it. Pixar pulls it off with Toy Story and Wall-E too, among other examples.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 23, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> _Naruto_ was dealing with a setting up a much bigger story with a much larger cast. It also had a more complex magic system and went into detail even with only single techniques.
> 
> _The Storm_ and _Blue Spirit_ gave character background and development to Aang and Zuko. Land of Waves gave character background and development to Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura, Zabuza, Haku, Inari, Tazuna, and the Land of Waves itself, and even the wider ninja world and its politics and harsh realities, despite being set entirely in a backwater. It gave development to some stuff that it would only give scant reference to in future, and other stuff that had little to nothing to do with the immediate plot of that arc.
> 
> ...



Pretty much.  Avatar's plot is extremely basic.  Ozai is a bad guy who wants to rule the world (and not even in a creative way, like, say Akatsuki, who had like three different motives and factions spread out through all its members.  Pain's, Madara's, and the idea Pain told everyone else.   Naruto's villains and politics and magic systems go far, far more in depth than anything in Avatar.  

Look at a character like Danzo, a man who is willing to do anything if it means keeping Konoha safe, even if it means bloodying his hands. However, many would question whether Danzo acts on behalf of Konoha or on his own behalf. Danzo is a war hawk who is willing to do anything in order to accompliish his goals. One example is when Danzo told his ROOT shinobi not to help in the defense of Konoha when Pain attacked and he also killed Kosuke, the toad that was supposed to retrieve Naruto from Mt. Myoboku just to keep the Kyubi from falling into Akatsuki's hands. This action, in turn, resulted in the destruction of Konoha, so he could become it's leader and protect it greater than, in his eyes, Tsunade or Hiruzen could.  Danzo then used Shisui Uchiha's sharingan to manipulate Mifune so that he would become the leader of the Shinobi Alliance. However, as a last act of defiance towards Madara Uchiha, Danzo destroyed Shisui's eye before he was killed by Sasuke Uchiha. He did this as an action to help Konoha.  He died wondered what Hiruzen, his best friend as well as biggest rival, and complete opposite in terms of ideology (the Hokage is for his people, or the people are for the Hokage) would have thought of him.  To this day, people still debate whether he was 'good' or 'evil', but I say he was neither.  He was human.  He's one of the most human characters in the series, neither black nor white, but grey.  He's kind of what you would actually expect a ninja to act like.

Compared to Ozai and Azula? He's leagues ahead of them.  Just about every villain in Naruto is.  Haku and Zabuza are good examples, and they're pretty minor and just the first boss in a series of many.  Go into Gaara's backstory and childhood, and Zuko and Azula look like they live in Beverly Hills.  Again, censorship, you don't get anything as traumatic as Zabuza/Haku/Gaara/whoevers childhoods here, nor explore how it defines them and how it can ruin people.



			
				Jena said:
			
		

> LMFAO
> 
> Ok, you don't know what maturity is.
> 
> I'm done now. *For real*. I can't take any more.



You missed my point.  Kids can handle things just fine.  You underestimate kids, as evidence by FMA being a kids show in Japan, no matter how much you want to deny it or pretend it isn't/  America has one of the worst schooling systems out there, so maybe you can blame the schools or something for that.  Who knows why Americans baby their kids or treat them like idiots. 



> @ Oman: I always felt that people use the word "filler" too liberally.
> Avatar wasn't adapted from anything, so technically it can't have filler. It just has episodes that "aren't plot relevant".


That's a different 'filler'.  Frankly, most anime fans use it wrong.  People have been using filler to describe episodes/things that have nothing to do with the overall structure before anime was about.  True filler is, yes, those pointless episodes.  For example, Fire Temple and Guren aren't filler since they tie into the overall story of the anime.  They're just anime-original storylines.


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## Ms. Jove (Sep 23, 2011)

**


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## Noah (Sep 23, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> For example, Fire Temple and Guren aren't filler since they tie into the overall story of the anime.  They're just anime-original storylines.



wut.

Please refer to Madam Jove's response and multiply it by pi.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 23, 2011)

Noah said:


> wut.
> 
> Please refer to Madam Jove's response and multiply it by pi.



Yep.

The Fire Temple arc incorporated details on Asuma's past and Naruto's wind chakra-training, for example.

Sadly a lot of anime fans misuse the word.  We've used the word in magazines I've worked for to just describe padding out an article, pretty much.

For example: 

Otherwise Pocket Monsters has no filler, which is a dumb claim to make.  The filler is what makes Jouto the most despised part of the franchise


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## Quaero (Sep 24, 2011)

Hey Juro.

You're assuming that every kid process their inputs equally, and you're disregarding that what is acceptable for children changes from culture to culture. 

And that someone can handle something doesn't necessarily imply that he should be exposed to it. 

Just saying.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 24, 2011)

You're right, not ever child is the same, but that shouldn't hold writers back.  Some children/parents think Spongebob is too violence, after all.. if you listen to one, then you have to listen to them all to be unbias, and then suddenly you have no more shows.  

Culture, well, that just goes back to the whole censorship argument.  European shows as well have less censorship than America's.  Moral Guardians really kind of neutered cartoons here, which is why they're only seen as kid's fodder unless it's Family Guy.. then it's just for making crude political humor.  I'd personally go for writers being able to do what they want, and if parents don't like it, then they can always change the channel (but we all know that's too much to ask for here)


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## Quaero (Sep 24, 2011)

Oh, and a side note on why America doesn't bother to push the envelope with their animated shows. (Exceptions exist of course) 

They have an industry for live action shows like no other in the world, the need for more deep and/or mature stories has, for some reason or another, has been satiated on the live action side of things.

With live action taking the spot of the "adult" stuff, cartoons drifted into kid only entertainment, and that notion reinforced itself over time.

Basically, the main reason is a perceived lack of demand of mature stories in animated form.

Without demand, you cant get funding, without funding, you cant make your show. 

Economics 101.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 24, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Oh, and a side note on why America doesn't bother to push the envelope with their animated shows. (Exceptions exist of course)
> 
> They have an industry for live action shows like no other in the world, the need for more deep and/or mature stories has, for some reason or another, has been satiated on the live action side of things.
> 
> ...



Indeed... you'd need to change the west's mind that animation can be more than kids comedies/superheroes and adult sitcoms before we can see that kind of stuff.  And it's a shame that's how it has to be.  Though the first step might be to stop dumbing down kids shows so much and give them a bit more credit than we give them.  B:TAS, despite my criticism, still seems to push the envelope more than stuff today (and apparently the other stuff Ben listed does as well, I suppose)


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## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> You're right, not ever child is the same, but that shouldn't hold writers back.  Some children/parents think Spongebob is too violence, after all.. if you listen to one, then you have to listen to them all to be unbias, and then suddenly you have no more shows.
> 
> Culture, well, that just goes back to the whole censorship argument.  European shows as well have less censorship than America's.  Moral Guardians really kind of neutered cartoons here, *which is why they're only seen as kid's fodder unless it's Family Guy.. then it's just for making crude political humor. * I'd personally go for writers being able to do what they want, and if parents don't like it, then they can always change the channel (but we all know that's too much to ask for here)



Spawn

[YOUTUBE]Xyp4SdVUjuI[/YOUTUBE]

Spawn, was a superhero.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 24, 2011)

A cartoon for a strictly adult audience, and rightly so.


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## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> A cartoon for a strictly adult audience, and rightly so.



He states that Cartoons in America are strictly kid's fodder unless its Family Guy. Spawn is not family guy nor is it used for crude political humor.


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## masamune1 (Sep 24, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> He states that Cartoons in America are strictly kid's fodder unless its Family Guy. Spawn is not family guy.



See, I thought you said "Spawn is not _a_ _Family Guy_", and now I've got a vision of someone in _Family Guy_ saying that, and cutting to a clip of the intro with Spawn as Peter.

And now I want to see it.


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## Wan (Sep 24, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> It set up the themes of ninja being human weapons and Zabuza's ideal that they should try and become something other than, or more than human, which is more or less the recurring theme in Orochimaru and Akatsuki. We learnt about the other five major villages and the titles of their leaders, and about the "Bloody Mist". But mostly it was used to help Team 7 gel together, and let Naruto and Sasuke get KN0 and the Sharingan, respectively (which was also set up, leading into Orochimaru, via Kakashi).
> 
> We also got the nice dichotomy between what was a fairly comic, kiddy show up to that point, and the more harsh realities and serious themes introduced in the form of Zabuza and the brutal backgrounds of Haku and the Land of Waves. Though Oro was to prove a much bigger evil bastard, this arc set the tone for what was to follow.
> 
> No, the characters in the Land of Waves weren't used much after that arc, but you said that there was more development in those two episodes of _Avatar_, and that wasn't true. The Land of Waves got plenty of development for a wide range of characters, and even though many of them were not seen for years and years later, and then as cameos, that only adds to it. It makes for a more engrossing story and it helps in the world building.



Ok, the characters were well-developed and the world got a good amount of background.  That's not plot progression.  Instead, it could almost be said that those things came at the _expense_ of the plot.  (using the first five minutes of an episode to the show the last five minutes of the previous episode didn't help either).  Imagine if Avatar had spent 10 or more episodes for the plot of "Imprisoned", putting more development into Haru, Tyro, and the Warden.  It could have been good, but it would have slowed down the plot of Avatar immensely without really contributing to it.  That's basically what the Wave arc amounted to.



> By that logic, Zuko and Aang didn't get that much development _before_
> those episodes. Though Zabuza and Haku aren't main characters; the other characters (main and minor) got development over the story as well. Point is, there was a lot more going on than your simplistic summary.
> 
> Also thinking about it, _Blue Spirit_ didn't really give that much development either. It was only the last minute or so, when the identity of the Spirit was revealed. Even then, it wasn't really _development;_ it was more like it was setting development up, since all it did was introduce (or rather, highlight) the possibility of Zuko being Aang's friend. Most of the story was Zuko just trying to capture Aang. Again, even if this time he was trying to capture him from Zhao.



There was more going on with regards to character development.  Not plot.

I view The Blue Spirit as building on what happened in the The Storm.  We see Aang and Zuko's past, and we see in particular that Zuko wasn't always such a harsh person.  Would the hint at Aang and Zuko's future friendship have been half as credible as it was without that background?



> 'Cept _Naruto's_ story is on a totally different scale, with a bigger cast and different aims. With _Avatar_ we knew what the story was about pretty much from the get go (Aang has to train to beat the Fire Lord); with _Naruto_ Akatsuki isn't even introduced until after a gigantic second arc, and its not at all clear how important they will be.
> 
> So really, your point is a bit disengenous. _Avatar_ got more plot done because it had less plot to work with, and less time to do it. _Naruto's_ best moments were when it was less about the plot and more about the characters. Going slow does not automatically make a series better, but neither does going fast. _Naruto_ and _Avatar_, despite obvious similarities, had different goals and objectives and worked on very different scales, and thats why _Avatar_ got done what it got done in the time it did.



I'm not comparing the overall plot (In 3-4 years of airing, Naruto had already finished Part 1).  My original point was if viewers can tolerate Naruto's plot progressing at the speed of molasses, then Avatar's viewers should be able to tolerate a few "filler" episodes if even with those episodes Avatar still gets far more plot done in the same amount of episodes.  Your point that Naruto was better when it focused on the characters rather than the plot actually supports that; Avatar's "filler" did a good deal to develop the world and the characters even when it wasn't progressing the plot.



Narcissus said:


> Whoa there Oman. Zabuza and Haku were one of the strongest elements of part 1. It's the reason why many say Kishimoto started so strong before the massive decline of his manga.
> 
> They were the first two who demonstrated what the world of Naruto was like, and helped the main character set his way in life. The characterization of Zabuza and Haku was really well done too, tragic as they were. Fans really felt for those two when they died. So they had a significant impact even if they were not the Big Bads.



Again, I'm not saying Wave arc was _bad_, per se, just using it for the sake of comparison to make a point.

And since this is a subject I brought up myself, I'll go ahead and address AJ's thoughts on it:



Akimichi Juro said:


> Pretty much.  Avatar's plot is extremely basic.  Ozai is a bad guy who wants to rule the world (and not even in a creative way, like, say Akatsuki, who had like three different motives and factions spread out through all its members.  Pain's, Madara's, and the idea Pain told everyone else.   Naruto's villains and politics and magic systems go far, far more in depth than anything in Avatar.



The _premise_ of the plot is basic.  The actual way the plot unfolds  -- the setup of Sozin's Comet, the Siege of the North, Zuko's progression from exile to fugitive to Prince to rebel, the whole Ba Sing Se arc, the Day of Black Sun,  Sozin's Comet itself -- is not.



> Compared to Ozai and Azula? He's leagues ahead of them.  Just about every villain in Naruto is.  Haku and Zabuza are good examples, and they're pretty minor and just the first boss in a series of many.  Go into Gaara's backstory and childhood, and Zuko and Azula look like they live in Beverly Hills.  Again, censorship, you don't get anything as traumatic as Zabuza/Haku/Gaara/whoevers childhoods here, nor explore how it defines them and how it can ruin people.



...I was going to write an in-depth analysis of Azula or Zuko, but I'm not going to bother right now.  I've actually been thinking of doing a series of analyses on all Avatar characters, so I'll just save it for then.

I will point out that, since Naruto has been running for over a decade now, it well exceeds the amount of characters that Avatar had in its three season run.  So there are a fair amount of well-developed characters in Naruto that you can point to (and, conversely, there are a fair amount of poorly developed characters you can point to).  Whether or not the best characters of Naruto have better development than best characters in Avatar is a different matter though.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Sep 24, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> He states that Cartoons in America are strictly kid's fodder unless its Family Guy. Spawn is not family guy nor is it used for crude political humor.



Yeah but isnt that one of the few exceptions though? I mean isnt that already a decade old. 

I do see in the western culture that _generally_ *animation* is percieved as a *genre* rather than a *medium*. 

Besides the 3D movies that roll out every year that can also be very enjoyable for adults (while targeted to the whole family), and DCAU movies that seemed to be aimed a little higher than the tween crowd - I cant think of a recent series that's predominantly targeted towards adults with its themes.


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## Glued (Sep 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah but isnt that one of the few exceptions though? I mean isnt that already a decade old.
> 
> I do see in the western culture that _generally_ *animation* is percieved as a *genre* rather than a *medium*.
> 
> *Besides the 3D movies that roll out every year that can also be very enjoyable for adults (while targeted to the whole family), and DCAU movies that seemed to be aimed a little higher than the tween crowd - I cant think of a recent series that's predominantly targeted towards adults with its themes.*



Movies?

Hellboy: Sword of the Storm, The Amazing Screw on Head, Turok and 9, Watchmen: Tales of the Black Freighter.

Western animation is a diverse medium, its just a bitch hunting down some of these movies.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 24, 2011)

The majority of our adult targeted cartoons are sitcoms.
There's a show on Fox that was recently renewed for a second season called Bob's Burgers, there'll also be two other primetime animated series debuting on Fox soon.

It'd be nice for an adult Sci/Fi or Action Adventure series to air on a major network or to have a basic cable slot. Definitely those 2 genres, I have no desire to see an animated legal drama.


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## Quaero (Sep 24, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I have no desire to see an animated legal drama.






You sir, have no imagination.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah but isnt that one of the few exceptions though? I mean isnt that already a decade old.
> 
> I do see in the western culture that _generally_ *animation* is percieved as a *genre* rather than a *medium*.
> 
> Besides the 3D movies that roll out every year that can also be very enjoyable for adults (while targeted to the whole family), and DCAU movies that seemed to be aimed a little higher than the tween crowd - I cant think of a recent series that's predominantly targeted towards adults with its themes.



The exception that proves the rule, as they say.  Spawn aired over 10 years ago and was a short-lived show, and using a show that old and forgotten to try to prove otherwise just shows has stagnant the medium is here.  Not to mention it's a superhero show, which is hardly any better, since another problem is the bulk of our action shows are superheroes.  Do we really need like 10+ Batman and Spider-Man cartoons?

And I agree it's definitely seen as a genre rather than a medium.  



Ben Grimm said:


> Western animation is a diverse medium, its just a bitch hunting down some of these movies.



A few random and obscure DTVs aren't really proof of that.  Especially when genres like romance and drama are pretty much ignored, and themes that America finds taboo wouldn't even be considered at all 



Oman said:


> The _premise_ of the plot is basic.  The  actual way the plot unfolds  -- the setup of Sozin's Comet, the Siege of  the North, Zuko's progression from exile to fugitive to Prince to  rebel, the whole Ba Sing Se arc, the Day of Black Sun,  Sozin's Comet  itself -- is not.



Is it though? One of the main criticisms is how it simplified  everything.  Like the ending.  Zuko ascends the throne, and despite  countless times we've seen Ozai's councilmen and Fire Nation citizens  support his war on the rest of the world/propaganda hate on the Avatar,  it goes over smoothly without a hitch.  No civil war of political  agendas, no assassination attempts, just a happy ending with rainbows.  As I mentioned, Danzo/Tsunade/Hiruzen/Elders/etc is much more fleshed out in terms of politics.  This isn't even mentioning the Sand and Sound Alliance/The Kage Summit/Neutral Land of Iron and other things.

The closest is Ba Sing  Sei, but it's only brushed over only gentle with 'evil brainwashing police', and quickly swept under the rug once it  gets taken over pretty easily (which, compared to the Sound/Sand  Invasion and the Pain Invasion, wasn't anywhere near as interesting or  "epic'.  Neither was the Day of Black Sun or the 'final battle' for that matter.)  Heck, they even boot the Earth King from their party between seasons and it's only mentioned in a throwaway line by Sokka.  The King traveling around with them for awhile might have been an interesting view now that I think about it.

When you think about it, Avatar's plot is very, very loose.  Train Water, Train Earth, Train Fire, Beat Ozai.  They have a lot of side-stuff (as you put it: don't develop the plot, just the world/characters/filler).  Not to mention in the end Aang just needed Spiritbending/Avatar State to beat Ozai, since even Zuko and Toph and everyone said he bending was still terrible right before the final battle.  Making most of the journey pretty pointless if all he needed was Avatar State and turtle power.  The White Lotus would have been more than enough to beat Ozai at any time if they so desired (as opposed to just being used to burn tapestries) , but then we'd have no show I suppose.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 24, 2011)

Quaero said:


> You sir, have no imagination.



Hey, I said that_ I_ have no desire to see one. I don't even watch live action legal dramas. If somebody wants to make one, I say bring it on.


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## Wan (Sep 25, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Is it though? One of the main criticisms is how it simplified  everything.  Like the ending.  Zuko ascends the throne, and despite  countless times we've seen Ozai's councilmen and Fire Nation citizens  support his war on the rest of the world/propaganda hate on the Avatar,  it goes over smoothly without a hitch.  No civil war of political  agendas, no assassination attempts, just a happy ending with rainbows.  As I mentioned, Danzo/Tsunade/Hiruzen/Elders/etc is much more fleshed out in terms of politics.  This isn't even mentioning the Sand and Sound Alliance/The Kage Summit/Neutral Land of Iron and other things.



First of all:  I wasn't talking about politics, just plot.  The sequence of events and how one leads to the other.  Plenty of fictions have complex plots without involving politics at all.

Secondly:  A "happy ending" of a story does not necessarily mean that everything in the world is nice and taken care of.  Take, for example, the end of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope.  It ended with a triumphant award ceremony for Han and Luke, but it's never said that the Empire is absolutely defeated.  Episode V picks up after the Republic had actually been ousted from their base on Yavin.  George Lucas had ideas for how he wanted to continue on, but he still gave a satisfying ending.  Bringing up that there were rebels against Zuko would have taken away from the triumph of that scene, like telling the audience that the Rebel base got overrun anyways would take away from the triumph of the ending of Episode IV.

With that said, you're just plain wrong that it was simply a "happy ending with rainbows".  It was a hopeful, triumphant ending, but Zuko says in his coronation speech, "The road ahead of us is challenging. A hundred years of war has left the world scarred and divided".  Also, the upcoming graphic novel indicates a new struggle that threatens to break Aang and Zuko's alliance.  We have no other details, but it goes to show that everything wasn't happiness and rainbows .



> The closest is Ba Sing  Sei, but it's only brushed over only gentle with 'evil brainwashing police', and quickly swept under the rug once it  gets taken over pretty easily (which, compared to the Sound/Sand  Invasion and the Pain Invasion, wasn't anywhere near as interesting or  "epic'.  Neither was the Day of Black Sun or the 'final battle' for that matter.)  Heck, they even boot the Earth King from their party between seasons and it's only mentioned in a throwaway line by Sokka.  The King traveling around with them for awhile might have been an interesting view now that I think about it.



Disagreed on what was more epic and interesting, bub.  I'll take Azula vs Zuko over any fight from Naruto.



> When you think about it, Avatar's plot is very, very loose.  Train Water, Train Earth, Train Fire, Beat Ozai.  They have a lot of side-stuff (as you put it: don't develop the plot, just the world/characters/filler).  Not to mention in the end Aang just needed Spiritbending/Avatar State to beat Ozai, since even Zuko and Toph and everyone said he bending was still terrible right before the final battle.  Making most of the journey pretty pointless if all he needed was Avatar State and turtle power.  The White Lotus would have been more than enough to beat Ozai at any time if they so desired (as opposed to just being used to burn tapestries) , but then we'd have no show I suppose.



When you think about it, Naruto's plot is very, very loose.  Master the Kyuubi, defeat Akatsuki, become Hokage (eventually, I assume).

See, that's the _premise_ of the plot.  Not the plot itself.  Summarizing the premise does nothing to show that the plot is simplistic.

The point of Aang's training was always to fight Ozai _before_ Sozin's Comet arrived.  As it stands, he succeeded at a number of things that he likely couldn't without training in the elements.  However, things don't always go according to plan -- hmm, sounds like a plot twist -- so he ended up fighting Ozai during the comet.  Yes, he had to use the Avatar State, but he also managed to master it.  Mastering the Avatar State is part of becoming a fully realized Avatar, which is the other point of Aang's growth and training.

As for the White Lotus -- they were used for a single, surprise attack.  They can't fight a war as an organization, and most were _already_ involved in the war fighting for their nations.  If they had tried attacking Ozai all at once (not that they could have reached him, tucked away in the capital), Ozai would have been supported by elite fighters of his own.  Overconfidence (somewhat justified) is the only reason that he took on Aang 1v1.

Btw, you've indicated that despite your criticisms of the show, you still kind of like it.  Just what do you like about it, then?  You've criticized the characters, themes, plot, action, maturity, (all wrongly) -- what is there left to like?  The art?  The humor?


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## Friday (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm watching "The southern Raiders" and am surprised at how bad the art is in this episode.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 25, 2011)

Friday said:


> I'm watching "The southern Raiders" and am surprised at how bad the art is in this episode.



What do you mean? Does it look like a crayon drawing from a 4 year old?
Link up to some screenshots of what you're specifically talking about.


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## Friday (Sep 25, 2011)

def not doing screenshots. Way too lazy.

There were close-ups of Katara where she looked like shit with a misshapen head. Same with Aang.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 25, 2011)

Moi Animation hardly ever goes off-model with any animated projects so....

I don't know. It's the first criticism of the episode's art that I've ever read in 3 years.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> First of all: I wasn't talking about politics, just plot. The sequence of events and how one leads to the other. Plenty of fictions have complex plots without involving politics at all.



I was referring more to how everything isn't kept all neat and tidy and doesn't throw you really any curve-balls in terms of narrative.  It pretty much follows either Aang's group or the Fire Nation Group, where other shows can have dozens of different narratives and perspectives on things.  The series was pretty neat and tidy with it's episode nature all things considered.  Most episodes ended with their daily adventure ended and on the way to the next town/event.  Outside some instances like the 2 parters, and the finale, it was mostly an 'adventure of the day' series.  If you missed an episode or two you weren't penalized much for it.  It was pretty simple storywise and execution wise.



> Secondly: A "happy ending" of a story does not necessarily mean that everything in the world is nice and taken care of. Take, for example, the end of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope. It ended with a triumphant award ceremony for Han and Luke, but it's never said that the Empire is absolutely defeated. Episode V picks up after the Republic had actually been ousted from their base on Yavin. George Lucas had ideas for how he wanted to continue on, but he still gave a satisfying ending. Bringing up that there were rebels against Zuko would have taken away from the triumph of that scene, like telling the audience that the Rebel base got overrun anyways would take away from the triumph of the ending of Episode IV.


Star Wars is a trilogy of movies, Avatar is a standalone series.  You can't just pick one movie as they intended to follow up on it. 



> Also, the upcoming graphic novel indicates a new struggle that threatens to break Aang and Zuko's alliance. We have no other details, but it goes to show that everything wasn't happiness and rainbows .


You shouldn't have to read outside sources to get the story from the show.  Especially ones almost half a decade after the show ended.  If it was that important it should be in the show.  That just means they either just want to milk it out with some extra books or they had very poor planning skills (they did say season 3 had a bunch of rewrites and they cut a bunch of stuff out of the finale, like Zuko's mom)  Just goes to back to my complaint of them wasting episodes on silly filler rather than telling the story.



> Disagreed on what was more epic and interesting, bub. I'll take Azula vs Zuko over any fight from Naruto.


If you say so.



> When you think about it, Naruto's plot is very, very loose. Master the Kyuubi, defeat Akatsuki, become Hokage (eventually, I assume).


It doesn't really work that way, I'm afraid.  As I mentioned, it has a lot of different perspectives to play off of.  Not to mention shounen episodes tend to flow and merge into one another and not really be episodic outside random filler.  It's nowhere near the simple package Avatar did with it's daily adventure format.  That's why even the Sound and Pain Invasions alone are more integrated together than Avatar in it's entireity.



> The point of Aang's training was always to fight Ozai before Sozin's Comet arrived. As it stands, he succeeded at a number of things that he likely couldn't without training in the elements. However, things don't always go according to plan -- hmm, sounds like a plot twist -- so he ended up fighting Ozai during the comet.  Yes, he had to use the Avatar State, but he also managed to master it. Mastering the Avatar State is part of becoming a fully realized Avatar, which is the other point of Aang's growth and training.


Didn't Aang say they wanted to wait until after it passed to fight Ozai? Then Zuko says "Hey, idiots, did you forget he was going to use the comet to take over the world?" and then they're all "Oh right, yeah, Roku said that didn't he... well we better go do something about that" I presume that's why they just wasted all that time after the eclipse passed.



> As for the White Lotus -- they were used for a single, surprise attack. They can't fight a war as an organization, and most were already involved in the war fighting for their nations. If they had tried attacking Ozai all at once (not that they could have reached him, tucked away in the capital), Ozai would have been supported by elite fighters of his own. Overconfidence (somewhat justified) is the only reason that he took on Aang 1v1.


Considering 3 12 year old kids were knocking over every Fire Nation soldier they met for the entire show with ease, I highly doubt the White Lotus would have trouble with them.   This just seems like kid show writing.. adults aren't allowed to help or save the day, they have to empower the kids and make the adults either useless or take a backseat and let the kids shine.  That'd explain why the Fire Nation's top soldiers are apparently a spoiled teenage brat and her airhead and emo friend.  They were halfheartedly written out of the show to keep it all about the kids.  It's also pretty much why they used the contrived writing device of Azula banishing everyone from the palace to keep that confrontation (not to mention casualties) to her non-existent.  Otherwise you'd end up with a 20+ episode invasion with no way to avoid all the casualties if you actually show a true invasion of a city, soldiers fighting everywhere and all, like in FMA:B.  I like how Mustang, Armstrong, Olivier,  Scar, and all the adults played key roles in that invasion, even if Ed is still the hero. 



> Btw, you've indicated that despite your criticisms of the show, you still kind of like it. Just what do you like about it, then? You've criticized the characters, themes, plot, action, maturity, (all wrongly) -- what is there left to like? The art? The humor?


Well like I said, it's one of the very few American shows that bother to try to have a plot, and even rarer one of the wannabe-anime shows that do more thna just rip off art style and chibis (Teen Titans, Totally Spies, etc)  and realize maybe anime is popular because it has a story/point to it.  I respect it for that, but it's also a great example of how America still has a long way to go with that stuff since they're new and inexperienced with it.  (And apparently done with it as well, since no show since Avatar bothered to try to follow it up)


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 25, 2011)

^ They probably havent followed up on Avatar-like series since its seriously expensive to produce on the western side.  

A lot of out-sourcing and motion capture/martial art consulting for the scenes.


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## The Imp (Sep 25, 2011)

Naruto has roughly 400 episodes to work with, and its still ongoing. The kind of depth you're looking for just won't work with Avatar. 

And you're overrating Japanese anime. Unless it's a manga adaption with an already existing fanbase you're most likely not going to have hundreds of episodes to flesh this stuff out. Most 26 - 52 episode series have to be concise and follow a manageable group of characters. If you make too many, nobody is going to be fleshed out well. 

Just look at Legend of the Galactic Heroes. It has 110 episodes and a cast bigger than Naruto's. A good portion of them are unremarkable or only have 1 memorable trait, but there are maybe a dozen of them that get great character development and make up for it. Of course the scale is fucking gigantic so it needs the big cast, but without focus it would be an utter mess.


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## Wan (Sep 25, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> I was referring more to how everything isn't kept all neat and tidy and doesn't throw you really any curve-balls in terms of narrative.  It pretty much follows either Aang's group or the Fire Nation Group, where other shows can have dozens of different narratives and perspectives on things.  The series was pretty neat and tidy with it's episode nature all things considered.  Most episodes ended with their daily adventure ended and on the way to the next town/event.  Outside some instances like the 2 parters, and the finale, it was mostly an 'adventure of the day' series.  If you missed an episode or two you weren't penalized much for it.  It was pretty simple storywise and execution wise.



Avatar didn't throw any curveballs?  I guess Zuko subverting the trope of joining the good guys at the end of season 2, contrary to everyone's expectations, wasn't a curveball.  Appa getting stolen wasn't either.  Ba Sing Se being controlled by a totalitarian dictator and his secret police wasn't either.  Nor was the appearance of airships at the end of "Day of Black Sun". Etc., etc....

Avatar did have a "daily adventure" in the sense that most episodes had their own plot that was resolved by the end of the episode.  However, those plots normally played into the overarching plot of the series  (and if you missed an episode like "The Storm" or "The Avatar State", you _would_ be penalized in your understanding of the overarching plot).  As for anime like Naruto, individual episodes have no plot of their own, instead they're just a piece of the current arc's plot.  That doesn't mean Naruto has more plot going on -- as I pointed out, more plot happened in the first 20 episodes of Avatar than happened in the first 20 episodes of Naruto.  It's a difference of pacing, and it's a matter of taste as to which one is better.



> Star Wars is a trilogy of movies, Avatar is a standalone series.  You can't just pick one movie as they intended to follow up on it.



Lucas wanted to follow up on it, but he didn't know if he would get the opportunity, so he made A New Hope work as a stand-alone movie.  Also, it's clear that the creators did want to follow up on the series in some way, hence the "Where is my mother?" plot hook.  The point remains:  a hopeful ending does not necessarily mean everyone lived happily ever after.  



> You shouldn't have to read outside sources to get the story from the show.  Especially ones almost half a decade after the show ended.  If it was that important it should be in the show.  That just means they either just want to milk it out with some extra books or they had very poor planning skills (they did say season 3 had a bunch of rewrites and they cut a bunch of stuff out of the finale, like Zuko's mom)  Just goes to back to my complaint of them wasting episodes on silly filler rather than telling the story.



Hmm...where have I seen the idea that a lot of stuff got cut out of Season 3 before...I know!



The _only_ thing the creators have gone on record to say they cut out of the show was the plotline with Zuko's mother.  Mike Dimartino specifically wanted to give that story a proper treatment, rather than tack it on to the end of the finale.  Otherwise, there's no evidence that they cut anything from season 3.  In fact, they extended the series finale from 3 episodes to 4 episodes so they could fit everything else they wanted in.

Anyways, I'm not referencing the graphic novel for the specific details.  I'm just using it as proof that just because Avatar had a hopeful ending it doesn't mean everyone lived happily ever after.



> It doesn't really work that way, I'm afraid.  As I mentioned, it has a lot of different perspectives to play off of.  Not to mention shounen episodes tend to flow and merge into one another and not really be episodic outside random filler.  It's nowhere near the simple package Avatar did with it's daily adventure format.  That's why even the Sound and Pain Invasions alone are more integrated together than Avatar in it's entireity.



Different perspectives on the same plot.  And again, the "daily adventure" format was a difference of pacing and didn't detract from Avatar's overall plot.



> Didn't Aang say they wanted to wait until after it passed to fight Ozai? Then Zuko says "Hey, idiots, did you forget he was going to use the comet to take over the world?" and then they're all "Oh right, yeah, Roku said that didn't he... well we better go do something about that" I presume that's why they just wasted all that time after the eclipse passed.



He wanted to wait until after the comet because he didn't think things could get much worse.  Probably what Aang thought Roku meant was that the Fire Nation would use Sozin's Comet to conquer the Earth Kingdom; well, thanks to Azula, they didn't even need the comet for that.  Aang and his remaining allies still made a last attempt to defeat the Fire Nation by using the Eclipse, but when that failed, there wasn't much else left to do.  He probably would have lost if he attacked Ozai without any support, so since it didn't look like they things could get any worse he decided to keep training and confront Ozai when he was better prepared.  It was a reasonable position to hold, until Zuko broke it to them that yes, it can in fact get worse if they don't take down Ozai before the comet.



> Considering 3 12 year old kids were knocking over every Fire Nation soldier they met for the entire show with ease, I highly doubt the White Lotus would have trouble with them.   This just seems like kid show writing.. adults aren't allowed to help or save the day, they have to empower the kids and make the adults either useless or take a backseat and let the kids shine.  That'd explain why the Fire Nation's top soldiers are apparently a spoiled teenage brat and her airhead and emo friend.  They were halfheartedly written out of the show to keep it all about the kids.  It's also pretty much why they used the contrived writing device of Azula banishing everyone from the palace to keep that confrontation (not to mention casualties) to her non-existent.  Otherwise you'd end up with a 20+ episode invasion with no way to avoid all the casualties if you actually show a true invasion of a city, soldiers fighting everywhere and all, like in FMA:B.  I like how Mustang, Armstrong, Olivier,  Scar, and all the adults played key roles in that invasion, even if Ed is still the hero.



Well yeah, ordinary soldiers, sure, but my point is that Ozai probably has a handful of elite firebenders on the White Lotus' level hanging around that we don't see much of.  Whoever said that Azula and her friends were the Fire Nation's "top soldiers"?  Ozai sent her after Zuko in Season 2, and then on her own volition she chose to pursue the Avatar and subvert Ba Sing Se.  That doesn't mean she was the best soldier.  Admiral Zhao and Combustion Man were both adults who posed a serious threat to Team Avatar.

The rest of what you say...isn't really intelligible.  Azula & co got written out of season 3?  Azula's banishing spree was just a writing device to get people out of the palace?  There...would have been an invasion otherwise?  What part of "agni kai" do you not understand?  And even if there was an invasion, it wouldn't have taken anywhere near 20 episodes, and it wouldn't have had to.

Edit:  I see what you mean by "written out", you meant the adults were written out.  Bad arrangement there, sounded like you were referring to Azula & co.  Anyways, no they weren't.  Hakoda had an important role in season 3 and the White Lotus played an important role in Sozin's Comet.  The show was about the main group of kids -- it always has been, whereas from the start Fullmetal Alchemist involved adults (rather odd for a kid's show, huh?), so while the adults weren't focused on as much as the kids were it's not like the writing changed.  It's more reflective of the target audience than storytelling goals.



> Well like I said, it's one of the very few American shows that bother to try to have a plot, and even rarer one of the wannabe-anime shows that do more thna just rip off art style and chibis (Teen Titans, Totally Spies, etc)  and realize maybe anime is popular because it has a story/point to it.  I respect it for that, but it's also a great example of how America still has a long way to go with that stuff since they're new and inexperienced with it.  (And apparently done with it as well, since no show since Avatar bothered to try to follow it up)



Done with it?  I thought you were aware of Thundercats and Legend of Korra.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 25, 2011)

To be honest Zuko at the end of season would have been better than any firebenders not having a name. 

He was already besting _Royal_ Firebending Guards at the beginning of season 2. 

Retaking Ba Sing Se was a total cakewalk for the White Lotus, and any Elite Firebenders would have been on the Fleet of Dragon Airships - that Sokka pretty much soloed.

EDIT: The only true obstacles were just *two *firebenders...

Ozai and crazy Azula.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 25, 2011)

Hold on a second, wasn't DracoStorm here a few months ago talking about these fictional rewrites that no one could find a source of to confirm?

What do you guys do, trade notes in between makeout sessions?


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## Wan (Sep 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> To be honest Zuko at the end of season would have been better than any firebenders not having a name.
> 
> He was already besting _Royal_ Firebending Guards at the beginning of season 2.
> 
> ...



Sokka "soloed" them with quick thinking -- ramming an airship through them -- rather than fighting.  Ozai and Azula were the only obstacles that _needed_ to be removed since they were in charge.  Once Zuko assumed the throne they weren't an immediate threat -- at least, they didn't have a leader to tell them to fight.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> Sokka "soloed" them with quick thinking -- ramming an airship through them -- rather than fighting.  Ozai and Azula were the only obstacles that _needed_ to be removed since they were in charge.  Once Zuko assumed the throne they weren't an immediate threat -- at least, they didn't have a leader to tell them to fight.



Is that FN's elite soldiers? Is that even FN's competent soldiers...?

One Airship moves out of formation drastically and then turns to face them - and not only did Sokka tag one enemy air ship...he drops all of them...without the one at the very end even trying to evade.

What a bunch of morons...


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## Friday (Sep 25, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Moi Animation hardly ever goes off-model with any animated projects so....
> 
> I don't know. It's the first criticism of the episode's art that I've ever read in 3 years.



The art is without a doubt great and well polished, but you can't ever say it's perfect. That episode was one where it was noticeably lacking, which is unfortunate seeing as it was one of the last episodes.


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## Wan (Sep 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Is that FN's elite soldiers? Is that even FN's competent soldiers...?
> 
> One Airship moves out of formation drastically and then turns to face them - and not only did Sokka tag one enemy air ship...he drops all of them...without the one at the very end trying to evade.
> 
> What a bunch of morons...


He didn't drop all of them with the first ramming.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 26, 2011)

Oman said:


> He didn't drop all of them with the first ramming.



The fact that he got even more than one is sad enough. Can we really consider those pilots/captains capable adults..? Let alone soldiers...?


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## Wan (Sep 26, 2011)

The airships were lined up pretty close together, the pilots weren't expecting it, it happened fast, and the airships aren't all that maneuverable to begin with...


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 26, 2011)

Well if the airships were that unmaneuverable...how long did it take Sokka to brake formation...travel a distance away from the fleet line his airship up and _then_ charge. 

Simply put, the defeat of those airships cant be fully explained without the use of severe incompetence somewhere in there. 

While Sokka has been praised to have a tactical mind, to be a unique fighter, a great pupil etc...his strategy cannot really be placed among the truly effective and shrewd war tactics of say Japans bombing of Pearl Harbour. Where the Allies really couldnt do anything to stop the damage that was intended and caused. 

There's no side stepping the fact that in the finale the adults/supervisors in charged were pretty stupid.


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## Wan (Sep 26, 2011)

Sokka had to push the airship to its limits, nearly tearing it apart in the process.  It's not something a pilot would do reflexively, especially since they had probably been pilots only a couple of months.  In fact, they were the first pilots in the history of Avatar.  Sokka was actually pretty clever in order to be able to pull that off.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 26, 2011)

Look at how far Sokka brings the airship out of formation as he dumps the original crew into the ocean right in front of the whole fleet:




Only to move sideways right across in front of the formation:


That's 14 FN Airships, that's 14 of the most sophisticated machines of war in the Avaterverse powered by the most destructive power - Comet Boost Firebending (barring the Avatar State) ALL turned to FODDER...in half an episode.  

Part-time students working at Walmart would have more initiative than those flying those  battle ships .... I mean seriously all 14...?

Just ridiculous. 

The US Navy had better luck with the Pearl Harbor tragedy with one or two ships not being at port at the time.


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## Narcissus (Sep 26, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Well like I said, it's one of the very few American shows that bother to try to have a plot, and even rarer one of the wannabe-anime shows that do more thna just rip off art style and chibis (Teen Titans, Totally Spies, etc)  and realize maybe anime is popular because it has a story/point to it.  I respect it for that, but it's also a great example of how America still has a long way to go with that stuff since they're new and inexperienced with it.  (And apparently done with it as well, since no show since Avatar bothered to try to follow it up)



Again, as explained to you, American cartoons have plot and purposes, including episodic ones. Your assertion that they do not is false.

Back to the Batman: TAS example, the episodes use an amazing level of character development and emotional depth in combination with mystery and action. In literature, there are plenty of short stories that are considered great works of fiction. That is similar to Batman: TAS.

For examples, see here:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSsK8n-8ul8[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D5XKASMrHY&NR=1[/YOUTUBE]


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 26, 2011)

The only serious complaints that I have about the story of this series were that Kō, the Face-Stealer, never appeared again in the series (appearing in a video game is not sufficient for me, as I have not played that video game), that Mai and Ty Lee's pasts were not explored in greater detail, that Ursa never appeared again after her initial appearance in _Zuko Alone_ (Azula's vision of her in _Sozin's Comet_ again is not sufficient for me), that Ozai was not killed, that Zuko and Azula's battle for the throne took only two episodes, rather than an entire story arc, and that no major protagonist died (Jet was only a minor protagonist). Apart from those issues, I found the storyline to be very exciting, intriguing, and satisfying, and it is true that the ending of the series left many mysteries unsolved, such as when Zuko commented that there still were many problems to be addressed, evidence that not everything was as happy and positive as it may have seemed to be.

Now, to provide a respite from the very serious and inflammatory debate of the storyline of the series, I have several images of fanart to post, which I believe have not been posted before.
*Spoiler*: __ 







*Spoiler*: __ 







*Spoiler*: __


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 26, 2011)

And here are several more images, as I did not wish to have too many images in the same post.
*Spoiler*: __ 







*Spoiler*: __ 







*Spoiler*: __


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## Friday (Sep 26, 2011)

The first one of your second post makes him look so much like Ong (pose and clothing).

I really don't know how I'd feel about anyone dying.. I mean, Sokka would probably be the first candidate to die in an effort of saving Katara, Aang, Toph, and or Suki.. but then how in the world would Katara take that? 

Then you can argue that it'd have to be Katara to be the one who dies, but how would Zuko and Aang take that? There really wasn't any room for that emotional drama that could've happened had one of the main 5 of Team Avatar died. 

Like Geeze, it was enough to see that Sokka's leg got sprained and that he lost his moon sword.

Id have to give the season a 4th or even 5th chapter before I am ready to see someone of Team Avatar die.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 26, 2011)

Friday said:


> The first one of your second post makes him look so much like Ong (pose and clothing).



If you are referring to Aang from M. Night Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender,_ then you are correct, as the artist of that image did state that they modeled their image after a screenshot from that film, and they even say so in their comments.

However, why did you spell his name differently, as if his portrayal in the film is a completely different character? I understand that M. Night Shyamalan altered the pronunciations of the characters' names, and that most fans of the series dislike his film, but the characters are still the same characters; Shyamalan simply gave a different portrayal of them, or an "alternate character interpretation," if that term is sufficient.

For example, Joel Schumacher's _Batman_ films were different from Tim Burton's _Batman_ films, Christopher Nolan's _Batman_ films were different from both Burton and Schumacher's films, and all six films were different from the 1960's _Batman_ television series that starred Adam West. James McAvoy's Charles Xavier in _X-Men: First Class _ was very different from Patrick Stewart's Charles Xavier in the first three _X-Men_ films. Brandon Routh's Superman was very different from Christopher Reeve's Superman, yet, in none of those situations did I see a great amount of complaints from fans of those franchises, as I have seen with fans of the original _A:tLA_ series in reference to Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender._ Why is that?



Friday said:


> I really don't know how I'd feel about anyone dying.. I mean, Sokka would probably be the first candidate to die in an effort of saving Katara, Aang, Toph, and or Suki.. but then how in the world would Katara take that?
> 
> Then you can argue that it'd have to be Katara to be the one who dies, but how would Zuko and Aang take that? There really wasn't any room for that emotional drama that could've happened had one of the main 5 of Team Avatar died.
> 
> ...



I do not wish to seem as if I like seeing main characters die, because I do not; I actually felt emotional over several character deaths in works of fiction that I recently followed, so I certainly do prefer to see characters to whom I am attached survive. Perhaps, after having read such series as _A Song of Ice and Fire,_ in which many characters die, regardless of how important they are, I found it to be almost "too happy" that all the heroes survived the final battle of this series.


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## Wan (Sep 26, 2011)

Um...did you just suggest that Joel Schumacher's Batman films did not lead to a great amount of complaints from Batman fans?

bebopsamurai actually uses a comparison to superhero movies in her analysis, so I'll actually quote her:

*Lots of people have come to the conclusion, based on how "Last Airbender" plays so fast and loose with its source material, that Shyamalan wasn't much of a true fan after all, but to a certain extent, the way the film is made may indicate exactly the opposite-- that he IS a fan of the series and that may be why the film is so awkward.

Now before you get defensive and click away from this review, let me make it clear that I am in no way suggesting that being a FAN of something, much less this series is a bad thing in and of itself-- after all, I'm obviously a fan or I wouldn't be spending god-knows how much time and energy making this at all.  But the thing about being a fan is that it's difficult to step away from something you love and view it objectively, which is kind of necessary in order to adapt something as sprawling as "Avatar" to the big screen.  You may be inclined towards a certain character or feel that a certain string of events was better than another and feel compelled to include that over something that may serve the overall narrative more, or ignore an established mood if you feel it conflicts with the way you personally view the series.  Because you're viewing it as a fan it might not even occur to you that non-fans won't be able to follow along, and so your editing might be rushed and unclear to an outsider despite your ability to understand the progression having already been familiar with the source material.

Now does any of this sound familiar in the context of "Last Airbender?"  I wouldn't rule it out.

(Granted, there are notable exceptions to this of course, "The Lord of the Rings" as a series supported and created and written by lifelong fans being one of the best in recent memory; even so this is a good rule of thumb to consider, especially as it relates to this movie.)

See, Shyamalan is an unabashed Zuko fanboy, for lack of a better word.  He's said several times that "Zuko is the real hero of the series" and while it might seem like idiocy, at the same time he's not being STUPID, it's just HOW HE SEES THE STORY, and his perception of what's at the heart of "Avatar's" narrative is in reality just as valid as any other fan's. 

(This doesn't justify why Katara and Sokka and Aang are more-or-less shells of their former selves and Zuko is probably the closest to his Season One incarnation of all the characters, but it does explain things a bit if you think about it.)

The difference is that 'most other fans' aren't making a movie of it, and Shyamalan is.  He's oblivious to the fact that HIS interpretation is not THE interpretation (i.e. the most basic and straightforward presentation of the series), and by the nature of being a proposed adaptation of the ENTIRE SHOW the film has to be as true to the established vision as possible, or else the production suffers for it.  While the fans shouldn't be ignored, the film should be primarily focused on making things as easy as possible for anyone to follow, regardless of their familiarity with the show. 

For example, long-running comic series such as "Iron Man" or "Superman" are built upon assorted storylines and characters and interpretations going as far back as the 1950's, but the movies are still entertaining regardless of whether or not you know the minutia of the universe because they're made with the mindset that you probably DON'T know a ton of assorted trivia offhand-- by trimming down these tangled narrative histories to their basics, non-fans get a movie that's fun to watch because they get to know the world for themselves in a clear way, and fans are rewarded with a deeper understanding because of their pre-established knowledge of the franchise.

In other words, the more a film adaptation is made accessible to everyone, the more likely it's going to be enjoyed by everyone.  Not always, but more often than not.  You can't just pull out a few choice elements from the show and expect it to work on its own to the detriment of everything else.*


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## Noah (Sep 26, 2011)

Friday said:


> Then you can argue that it'd have to be Katara to be the one who dies, but how would Zuko and Aang take that? There really wasn't any room for that emotional drama that could've happened had one of the main 5 of Team Avatar died.



Surely you mean Sokka and Aang. Zuko's reaction would be minimal at best compared to those two, regardless of how much certain fans would think otherwise.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 26, 2011)

Oman said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Um...did you just suggest that Joel Schumacher's Batman films did not lead to a great amount of complaints from Batman fans?



*Spoiler*: __ 





No, I did not suggest that, as I know that there were people who disliked those films, but it seems to me that they were not quite as vocal or intense about their dislike as were fans of _A:tLA_ about Shyamalan's film.



Oman said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great post!!! That user's essay is very similar to what I myself was thinking; I am glad to see such a rational and well-deliberated post having been made on this subject. Thank you very much for posting it.


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## Wan (Sep 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> No, I did not suggest that, as I know that there were people who disliked those films, but it seems to me that they were not quite as vocal or intense about their dislike as were fans of _A:tLA_ about Shyamalan's film.



Well, the internet didn't exist in the same way that it does now back when "Batman and Robin" was released, so fans weren't able to express their frustrations in as noticeable a manner.


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The only serious complaints that I have about the story of this series were that Kō, the Face-Stealer, never appeared again in the series (appearing in a video game is not sufficient for me, as I have not played that video game), that Mai and *Ty Lee's pasts were not explored in greater detail*, that Ursa never appeared again after her initial appearance in _Zuko Alone_ (Azula's vision of her in _Sozin's Comet_ again is not sufficient for me), that Ozai was not killed, that Zuko and Azula's battle for the throne took only two episodes, rather than an entire story arc, and that no major protagonist died (Jet was only a minor protagonist). Apart from those issues, I found the storyline to be very exciting, intriguing, and satisfying, and it is true that the ending of the series left many mysteries unsolved, such as when Zuko commented that there still were many problems to be addressed, evidence that not everything was as happy and positive as it may have seemed to be.
> 
> Now, to provide a respite from the very serious and inflammatory debate of the storyline of the series, I have several images of fanart to post, which I believe have not been posted before.
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



There was really nothing to explore, we know why she became who she is and and why she joined up with the circus troupe. Her childhood with Azula was shown in Zuko Alone.

We really didn't need a flashback of her running away from home to join the circus so she could feel different from her horde of sisters who looked exactly like her.


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## Ausorrin (Sep 26, 2011)

Was the ordeal of Zuko's mother ever explained because after Zuko asking Ozai about her in prison, I thought they would at least provide some info?


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## Burke (Sep 26, 2011)

Ausorrin said:


> Was the ordeal of Zuko's mother ever explained because after Zuko asking Ozai about her in prison, I thought they would at least provide some info?



No.
:jove
**


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 26, 2011)

Ausorrin said:


> Was the ordeal of Zuko's mother ever explained because after Zuko asking Ozai about her in prison, I thought they would at least provide some info?



It was supposed to be explained in a mini series...but that never got made for some reason.


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## Wang Fire (Sep 26, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> It was supposed to be explained in a mini series...but that never got made for some reason.



Was it really?

I'm so disappointed that it wasn't made. :[


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## Narcissus (Sep 26, 2011)

I have to agree with the notion that none of the main character dying by the end of the show was perfectly fine. Not everything has to be some dark and sad tale to be good, and I was actually quite satisfied to see all of the characters make it by the end.


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## Glued (Sep 26, 2011)

Not me, I wanted Appa dead and turned into food.


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## Narcissus (Sep 26, 2011)

But think of how sad Momo would've been.


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## Wan (Sep 26, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> Was it really?
> 
> I'm so disappointed that it wasn't made. :[



Actually I don't think a "mini-series" was ever confirmed by the creators themselves.  Only in some promotional Nickelodeon pamphlets.

The plotline with Zuko's mom will probably be resolved in the graphic novel series "The Promise" next year.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 27, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> ^ They probably havent followed up on  Avatar-like series since its seriously expensive to produce on the  western side.



I don't think that's the case.  There's been action shows since it  aired, it's just they tend to be of the superhero-esque variety with no real focus to them.  It's probably just  easier to have more basic, episodic shows you can milk season after season and  not care if it ends on a cancellation then go into a show with "Ok, it's  52 episodes, let's do this"  I'd say it's more  producers/writers/networks going to easy/lazy route.  Kids will watch it  anyway, so why put much thought/effort into it, I guess.



The Imp said:


> Naruto has roughly 400 episodes to work with, and its still ongoing. The kind of depth you're looking for just won't work with Avatar.



Well the comparison was being made to Naruto so I used that.. I also used FMA which has a similar number of episodes as well.



Narcissus said:


> Again, as explained to you, American cartoons  have plot and purposes, including episodic ones. Your assertion that  they do not is false.
> 
> Back to the Batman: TAS example, the episodes use an amazing level of  character development and emotional depth in combination with mystery  and action. In literature, there are plenty of short stories that are  considered great works of fiction. That is similar to Batman:  TAS.



I'm half tempted to do the whole 'it's hilarious you're comparing Batman  to literature' like people did before when I mentioned Naruto, but  rather than hurl insults and dodge the point, I'll actually address it.

And again, as explained to you, Batman The Animated Series isn't focused  on plot and doesn't have one.  Without getting into that debate again,  it's an entirely episodic series you can watch in virtually any order.  A  good example is the relationship between Harley and Joker.  American  cartoon fans love to shout how 'deep' and 'complex' Harley is because of  her relationship with the Joker.

As someone who has no nostalgic ties to the show since I first saw it when I was 18 and already watching anime full time, I found it really weak and poorly done.   Mad Love, for example,  despite being hailed as great, is pretty much filler.  They hit the  reset button at the end with Harley still liking the Joker.  Far too  many episodes do that, and reset buttons null your character growth.  If  you can skip an episode like that, then it doesn't offer anything to  the character.  Just like those episode where Harley is staying with  Poison Ivy sometimes.  Do we actually see this 'breakup' with her and  the Joker? Is it a story arc like how Zuko breaks off from the Fire  Nation? Nope, the episode just starts with them together and maybe we  get a throwaway line of how Harley is 'separated' from the Joker after  an argument or something (I think one episode STARTS with Harley and the  Joker fighting, but that's it.. it's all in the same episode).  And  either the Joker shows up at the end to take Harley back and alls well  that ends well, or the episode ends and then suddenly the next time we  see her she's with the Joker again.  It's never explored or developed,  it just happens.

The show never actually had any resolution for them.  Very few got  resolution (No, Harvey in a cell isn't resolution any more than a  character being arrested and sent to prison is.  You'd have to be an  idiot to think they won't break out or anything; especially since most  encounters with villains ended with them in jail.)  And no, Batman  Beyond/Return of the Joker doesn't count, because anyone can go back  years later in an entirely new show and insert an explanation  retroactively like they did with how the Joker died. It'd be like trying  to fill in story gaps with a comic book series years after the show  ended or something...  The DCAU as a whole suffered because of all those  crossovers, just like the comics they were based on.  It meant nothing  could end or ever be resolved (the real nut kicker is the last episode  of it is all the heroes letting the villains run free in the streets, as  if mocking the very idea of 'closure'  A fitting end, I suppose.)

Maybe for America it's brilliant, but when you factor in anime, it doesn't even come close.  As mentioned Zabuza/Haku relationship alone trumps  anything Batman did, because it actually developed and met a tragic end.  Unlike that episode people say is the best where Batgirl dies and they reveal it was all a dream.  No.. Zabuza and Haku got cut down.  This isn't even getting into actual higher-tier anime like Monster and stuff.



Oman said:


> Avatar didn't throw any curveballs?



I dunno who was saying when, but Zuko still turned good, if he never did   then it would be a curveball (since I predicted he would back in the   first episode)  Ba Sing Se wasn't much really considering how quickly it   was resolved.  Now, if Ba Sing Sei was revealed as corrupt and  actually  warring with the Fire Nation over conquering the world (or  conspiring  with it) then maybe... but the secret police thing was  resolved way too  quickly for it to have a lasting impact on the story.   Airships, not so  much, since we do see the Fire Nation retrieve  Sokka's balloon from like  the first season.



> Avatar did have a "daily adventure" in the sense that most   episodes had their own plot that was resolved by the end of the episode.    However, those plots normally played into the overarching plot of the   series  (and if you missed an episode like "The Storm" or "The Avatar   State", you _would_ be penalized in your understanding of the   overarching plot).  As for anime like Naruto, individual episodes have   no plot of their own, instead they're just a piece of the current arc's   plot.  That doesn't mean Naruto has more plot going on -- as I pointed   out, more plot happened in the first 20 episodes of Avatar than  happened  in the first 20 episodes of Naruto.  It's a difference of  pacing, and  it's a matter of taste as to which one is  better.


And it took Pokemon Best Wishes 30 episodes to reach it's first filler episode while Avatar only managed like 4 or something.  Where does that leave Avatar? 

And not really, since if you missed an episode of Naruto  after the Kage are  talking the next one will be Sasuke fighting Raikage  randomly and you'll  have no idea how he got there or anything.  The  episodes all play off  one another like that.  Miss The Storm and you'll  still get "Gang are  traveling on Appa to their next destination and  have a random adventure"  .



> Lucas wanted to follow up on it, but he didn't know if he would   get the opportunity, so he made A New Hope work as a stand-alone movie.    Also, it's clear that the creators did want to follow up on the series   in some way, hence the "Where is my mother?" plot hook.  The point   remains:  a hopeful ending does not necessarily mean everyone lived   happily ever after.


You're also comparing a standalone movie to  a show with 3 seasons that  they always knew they'd have three seasons.   If it was cancelled after  season 1 or something, then yes, it would  be similar, but they had ample  time to plan.



> The _only_ thing the creators have gone on record to say   they cut out of the show was the plotline with Zuko's mother.  Mike   Dimartino specifically wanted to give that story a proper treatment,   rather than tack it on to the end of the finale.


That being a joke filler episode.   Wonderful priorities they have  there.  I still like FMA's creators  asking the network for another  episode so they could give the epilogue  it's own episode better, I must  admit.  That shows they really cared  about getting it right.



> Well yeah, ordinary soldiers, sure, but my point is that Ozai   probably has a handful of elite firebenders on the White Lotus' level .....


I'm going by what we see on  screen.  We can't assume there's magical  powerful benders behind the  curtain if we never see them.  Azula and her  two friends have the most  impressive (read: only) feats out of the Fire  Nation.  I guess Zhao  punched a fish and did a few things, but he got  punked by kids all  throughout season 1, Zuko included.  They're the only  three people who  do anything at all in the show.



> Hakoda had an   important role in season 3 and the White Lotus played an important role   in Sozin's Comet.


Hakoda's important role was being captured so Sokka and  Zuko could  rescue him.  Two kids can overthrow a prison apparently (but  as also  mentioned, one kid can take out an entire fleet of airships as  well, so  why not I guess) Same way those kids fought their way into  the Earth  Palace at the end of season 2.  White Lotus' important role was liberating a pointless city that would have been liberated when Aang defeated Ozai anyway, or been retaken over if the Avatar died to him.  Their attack on it was pointless.

As it stands, Aang should have been the only one to really go toe to toe   with expert adult benders because of his Avatar powers.  Newbies like   Katara who've been training for less than a month mowing down soldiers   with years of experience is just pandering.  Factor in Sokka and it's  just insulting.



> Done with it?  I thought you were aware of Thundercats and Legend  of Korra.


Thundercats writers already stated they plan to milk  it as long as they can and can make stuff for season after season.

Korra is just another Avatar series.  Aside from it not being out yet so   we can't judge it, I imagine it'll have all the same problems and   format as the first series did, so I'll go off that notion for now.    Even still, it's not very original either if the next follow up to   Avatar is _another _Avatar.  I'd rather the creators try their hand   at something new entirely, personally.


----------



## Wan (Sep 27, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> I dunno who was saying when, but Zuko still turned good, if he never did   then it would be a curveball (since I predicted he would back in the   first episode)  Ba Sing Se wasn't much really considering how quickly it   was resolved.  Now, if Ba Sing Sei was revealed as corrupt and  actually  warring with the Fire Nation over conquering the world (or  conspiring  with it) then maybe... but the secret police thing was  resolved way too  quickly for it to have a lasting impact on the story.   Airships, not so  much, since we do see the Fire Nation retrieve  Sokka's balloon from like  the first season.



How quickly things are resolved or the lasting impact has nothing to do with how unexpected a plot development is.



> And it took Pokemon Best Wishes 30 episodes to reach it's first filler episode while Avatar only managed like 4 or something.  Where does that leave Avatar?



Haven't seen Pokemon Best Wishes so I can't really comment. Except to snicker.



> And not really, since if you missed an episode of Naruto  after the Kage are  talking the next one will be Sasuke fighting Raikage  randomly and you'll  have no idea how he got there or anything.  The  episodes all play off  one another like that.  Miss The Storm and you'll  still get "Gang are  traveling on Appa to their next destination and  have a random adventure"  .



You'll still be confused about Zuko's motivations for capturing the Avatar and why he's exiled.  You won't miss out on the plots of individual episodes, but you'll still miss out on the overarching plot.

Also, you won't get that if you jump to the part where they _don't have Appa._



> You're also comparing a standalone movie to  a show with 3 seasons that  they always knew they'd have three seasons.   If it was cancelled after  season 1 or something, then yes, it would  be similar, but they had ample  time to plan.



The point stands regardless -- A New Hope works as a standalone movie with a hopeful ending -- but then how about the ending of Episode VI.  Death Star blows up, joyous celebration on Endor.  Conclusion of the movie trilogy.  However, anyone who knows a lick about the Star Wars universe can tell you it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows after that.



> I'm going by what we see on  screen.  We can't assume there's magical  powerful benders behind the  curtain if we never see them.  Azula and her  two friends have the most  impressive (read: only) feats out of the Fire  Nation.  I guess Zhao  punched a fish and did a few things, but he got  punked by kids all  throughout season 1, Zuko included.  They're the only  three people who  do anything at all in the show.



Combustion Man?



> Hakoda's important role was being captured so Sokka and  Zuko could  rescue him.  Two kids can overthrow a prison apparently (but  as also  mentioned, one kid can take out an entire fleet of airships as  well, so  why not I guess) Same way those kids fought their way into  the Earth  Palace at the end of season 2.  White Lotus' important role was liberating a pointless city that would have been liberated when Aang defeated Ozai anyway, or been retaken over if the Avatar died to him.  Their attack on it was pointless.



You mean his role was coordinating the whole Day of Black Sun invasion, right?

Ba Sing Se, the Earth Kingdom capital and center of events at the end of Season 2 and a major plot point when it fell, is a pointless city.   Team Avatar was smart to not put stock in any single battle.  If Aang failed, there was a chance Zuko would still have defeated Azula and the Order of the White Lotus would have taken Ba Sing Se.  The Earth Kingdom would have a fighting chance again.



> As it stands, Aang should have been the only one to really go toe to toe   with expert adult benders because of his Avatar powers.  Newbies like   Katara who've been training for less than a month mowing down soldiers   with years of experience is just pandering.  Factor in Sokka and it's  just insulting.



Katara steadily trained and progressed her power through season 1 -- she was a pushover at the beginning, a legitimate threat by the end.  She studied for weeks under Master Pakku, probably the best waterbender in the world, and Pakku commented that she was the fastest learner he'd ever trained.  Fire Nation recruits probably don't have the same training and talent Katara had.



> Thundercats writers already stated they plan to milk  it as long as they can and can make stuff for season after season.



You say that as if manga don't do this as well.



> Korra is just another Avatar series.  Aside from it not being out yet so   we can't judge it, I imagine it'll have all the same problems and   format as the first series did, so I'll go off that notion for now.    Even still, it's not very original either if the next follow up to   Avatar is _another _Avatar.  I'd rather the creators try their hand   at something new entirely, personally.



The creators have stated that they will be writing all the episodes exclusively in order to have a tighter story, and the series will have less episodes than the original did (12 episode first season and 14 episode second season are planned right now, as compared to the first show's 20 episode seasons).  If anything that means the plot progression will be even better than the first show, and it will eliminate the problem of inconsistent writing you brought up earlier (though that's not without its price; it excludes some of the best writers from the first show like Tim Hedrick and Aaron Ehasz).

And I would think someone who doesn't mind Naruto running for more than a decade wouldn't mind something building off a previous story in less than that time.


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## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

I can watch or read any sherlock holmes story in any order I like, its all episodic. But of course, Juro knows more about storytelling than Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, so who am I to say anything. And of course since its episodic, that must mean Sir Arthur Conan Doyle must have been lazy as well.

Oh yes there was an episode of JLU which was based on a story written by Alan Moore. Of course, why anyone could tell you that Akimichi Juro is far more brilliant than Alan Moore, why he's only created The Watchmen, Promethea, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and had one of the most greatest Swamp Thing stories ever written.


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## Akimichi Juro (Sep 27, 2011)

Oman said:


> How quickly things are resolved or the lasting impact has nothing to do with how unexpected a plot development is.



A corrupt advisor voiced by Clancy Brown is a plot twist? Clancy Brown is so typecasted it'd be a bigger shock if he didn't betray everyone or turn evil (see: Thundercats, Superman, etc)



> Haven't seen Pokemon Best Wishes so I can't really comment. Except to snicker.


You don't have to see it to address the point.  30 episodes of no filler.  Nothing the West does can really say the same.



> You'll still be confused about Zuko's motivations for capturing the Avatar and why he's exiled.  You won't miss out on the plots of individual episodes, but you'll still miss out on the overarching plot.


It's not like they don't shout his 'honor' thing a lot in other episodes and exposition a lot.  Even the show made fun of it it in the end.



> Also, you won't get that if you jump to the part where they _don't have Appa._


Though they will explain why at the beginning of the episode in case you missed it.  No to mention that in general is an incredibly small window in an entire show.



> The point stands regardless -- A New Hope works as a standalone movie with a hopeful ending -- but then how about the ending of Episode VI.  Death Star blows up, joyous celebration on Endor.  Conclusion of the movie trilogy.  However, anyone who knows a lick about the Star Wars universe can tell you it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows after that.


You mean the fanfiction EU universe? Has nothing to do with Lucas, so that doesn't count.  Can't use fanfiction to prove a point.



> Combustion Man?


Fodder guy? He blew himself up/Sokka beat him, he can't be that competent.  The show in general lacked a decent amount of villains, sadly.  So everyone not named Aang and Zuko got stuck with fodder soldiers in the end.  



> You mean his role was coordinating the whole Day of Black Sun invasion, right?


The invasion that failed horribly?



> Ba Sing Se, the Earth Kingdom capital and center of events at the end of Season 2 and a major plot point when it fell, is a pointless city.   Team Avatar was smart to not put stock in any single battle.  If Aang failed, there was a chance Zuko would still have defeated Azula and the Order of the White Lotus would have taken Ba Sing Se.  The Earth Kingdom would have a fighting chance again.


Except they hammer in 'only the Avatar can save us' and 'only the Avatar can beat the Fire Lord' If Aang failed then the world is screwed.  Besides, taking Ba Sing Se wouldn't mean much if the airships destroyed everything anyway.. why not send the adults to take out the ship? Other than kids being God in this universe, apparently.



> Katara steadily trained and progressed her power through season 1 -- she was a pushover at the beginning, a legitimate threat by the end.  She studied for weeks under Master Pakku, probably the best waterbender in the world, and Pakku commented that she was the fastest learner he'd ever trained.  Fire Nation recruits probably don't have the same training and talent Katara had.


Of course not.  They only have over twenty times the experience and training she does.  How silly they think they can compete with a little girl in a kid's show where the average adult is stupid and incompetent.  Now, if every soldier was Pakku/Jeong-Jeong, then maybe it'd be a belivable excuse.



> You say that as if manga don't do this as well.


Rarely, usually everything in a manga is tied into it's story.  Not to mention manga usually has the privilege to do what they like because it's not as 'cancel' happy' as US TV.  Thundercats said each season will be it's own thing in case they're cancelled at any time.



> And I would think someone who doesn't mind Naruto running for more than a decade wouldn't mind something building off a previous story in less than that time.


Naruto is a single story that still has story to tell, and everything's been moving forward with each chapter.  Avatar already ended and this is years later.  The fact they're trying it milk the name means they either have no creativity or the networks don't want them to experiment or try something new and are afraid to fund an untested product.  All I know is you have people like Takeshi Obata and/or Tsugumi Ohba go who from Hikaru no Go, to Death Note to Bakuman, a huge leap in terms of narrative and stories across all three.  They didn't just make Death Note: The Next Generation or anything.  It'd be nice to see something non-Avatar from them, especially for people who dislike Avatar's universe.



> I can watch or read any sherlock holmes story in any order I like, its  all episodic. But of course, Juro knows more about storytelling than Sir  Arthur Conan Doyle, so who am I to say anything. And of course since  its episodic, that must mean Sir Arthur Conan Doyle must have been lazy  as well.


You keep comparing books to television, with is a faulty comparison, and can't really be argued either for or against because of how different they are and the process behind them.  Not to mention, if I understand your analogy right, you're equating one book to one episode of a show.  If anything, I'd say one book is one series, and each chapter is an episode.  



> Oh yes there was an episode of JLU which was based on a story written by  Alan Moore. Of course, why anyone could tell you that Akimichi Juro is  far more brilliant than Alan Moore, why he's only created The Watchmen,  Promethea, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and had one of the most  greatest Swamp Thing stories ever written.


  If you really want to play the "this writer has an undying fact opinion" then going by that logic, since Japan doesn't care, and they're the top dogs when it comes to animation, then western animation isn't good just from their opinion alone.  You're under a presumption people care about superhero comics and that name means something to the average person/top-tier animation gurus.

Am I going to side with a guy who worked on a kid's superhero cartoon or the creator of Grave of the Fireflies when it comes to diversity and writing in animation.  I wonder.


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## DemonDragonJ (Sep 27, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> There was really nothing to explore, we know why she became who she is and and why she joined up with the circus troupe. Her childhood with Azula was shown in Zuko Alone.
> 
> We really didn't need a flashback of her running away from home to join the circus so she could feel different from her horde of sisters who looked exactly like her.



Are you so certain of that? What if Zuko's past was not shown in detail, but instead revealed through his dialogue alone? I often hear experienced writers advise new writers to "show, not tell," and that advice was very effective in that particular instance. I know that Ty Lee is a far more minor character than is Zuko, but I still would rather have seen flashbacks of her past than her playing _Kuai Ball_ or attending the party at Chan's house.

With that being said, in reference to any mention of Ursa: I know that this has been said before, but could not a story arc focusing on Zuko seeking Ursa have been included if there had been fewer one-shot episodes (such as _The Headband_ or _The Painted Lady)?_ Or is it better to have had such episodes to make the show easier to watch in the form of re-runs, while Zuko searching for his mother would better as a story without any other side-plots?


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## Wan (Sep 27, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> A corrupt advisor voiced by Clancy Brown is a plot twist? Clancy Brown is so typecasted it'd be a bigger shock if he didn't betray everyone or turn evil (see: Thundercats, Superman, etc)



Uh, sure.  In that case the casting is a _result_ of the plot twist, and an out-of-universe one at that.  It's still a plot twist.



> It's not like they don't shout his 'honor' thing a lot in other episodes and exposition a lot.  Even the show made fun of it it in the end.



But _why?_ Miss "The Storm" and you won't know.



> Though they will explain why at the beginning of the episode in case you missed it.  No to mention that in general is an incredibly small window in an entire show.



So the show relies on continuity so heavily that it requires a recap of previous episodes for people who haven't seen them?  Thanks for supporting my point. 



> You mean the fanfiction EU universe? Has nothing to do with Lucas, so that doesn't count.  Can't use fanfiction to prove a point.



Oh wow, for once I wish Fang was in this thread.  The expanded universe isn't fan fiction, it's canon.  The point -- that you seem to keep evading -- is that just because a show doesn't address lingering problems at its conclusion doesn't mean they aren't there or hurt the show's maturity.  Bringing up those problems can ruin the satisfying effect of a hopeful ending.



> Fodder guy? He blew himself up/Sokka beat him, he can't be that competent.  The show in general lacked a decent amount of villains, sadly.  So everyone not named Aang and Zuko got stuck with fodder soldiers in the end.



Right, a guy who tossed Zuko aside like a rag doll and pinned down Team Avatar multiple times is fodder.  Sokka used his brains to defeat Combustion Man, and while he's not always _sharp_ when it comes to thinking the show has established that he's the best member of the group when it comes to thinking out of the box.  The way he took down Combustion Man was totally in accord with his character and was a nice moment for him to shine.



> The invasion that failed horribly?



Point being?  It's still an important part of the plot.



> Except they hammer in 'only the Avatar can save us' and 'only the Avatar can beat the Fire Lord' If Aang failed then the world is screwed.  Besides, taking Ba Sing Se wouldn't mean much if the airships destroyed everything anyway.. why not send the adults to take out the ship? Other than kids being God in this universe, apparently.



The Earth Kingdom had fought for a century without an Avatar.  If Aang did lose, it would be a major blow but they would still fight.  Why not send the adults?  Because Ba Sing Se would still be occupied.  A war often does not come down to a single battle.  It's a series of victories that end it.

And nevermind the parallels of Iroh reconquering Ba Sing Se, considering his past with the city.  Nothing would be lost by Iroh not doing it...

And why do I get the feeling that Ba Sing Se would be one of the things you would cite as unresolved if they _hadn't_ taken it back?



> Of course not.  They only have over twenty times the experience and training she does.  How silly they think they can compete with a little girl in a kid's show where the average adult is stupid and incompetent.  Now, if every soldier was Pakku/Jeong-Jeong, then maybe it'd be a belivable excuse.



A run-of-the-mill drill sergeant is not going to have the same knowledge as Pakku, and no matter how much experience you have you're not going to magically know advanced forms you were never taught.



> Rarely, usually everything in a manga is tied into it's story.  Not to mention manga usually has the privilege to do what they like because it's not as 'cancel' happy' as US TV.  Thundercats said each season will be it's own thing in case they're cancelled at any time.



So far Thundercats has had a number of episodes tied in with defeating Mumm-ra.  But tying it with the story wasn't your point, you said they would milk it and make season after season.  After 10+ years of series like One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, and other manga/anime the same can be said of them arc after arc.



> Naruto is a single story that still has story to tell, and everything's been moving forward with each chapter.  Avatar already ended and this is years later.  The fact they're trying it milk the name means they either have no creativity or the networks don't want them to experiment or try something new and are afraid to fund an untested product.  All I know is you have people like Takeshi Obata and/or Tsugumi Ohba go who from Hikaru no Go, to Death Note to Bakuman, a huge leap in terms of narrative and stories across all three.  They didn't just make Death Note: The Next Generation or anything.  It'd be nice to see something non-Avatar from them, especially for people who dislike Avatar's universe.



 @ Naruto is a single story.

How did the Wave arc play into this "single story"?  Chunin exams?  Getting Tsunade to be Hokage?  Sasuke running off to join Orochimaru?  Sure, there's plenty of continuity between them, but they are not the same plot.  They are not the same story.  They have different conflicts, different rising actions, different climaxes, and different conclusions.  Kishimoto is making up arcs as he goes along. At best you can say that Naruto uses the same set of characters.

The creators of Avatar aren't "milking" it.  If they had wanted to milk the franchise they would have continued after season 3 of the first show.  They actually are pretty adamant about not letting a story get dragged along indefinitely.  Bryan Konietzko said in a documentary:

"If someone came up to me and said, 'I want to tell you a story.  It's the best story in the world.' Awesome! 'It never ends.'  I would turn and walk the other way.  I don't want to hear a story that never ends!"

Roland Poindexter, senior vice president of animation at Nickelodeon, said at San Diego Comic-Con that Nickelodeon actually approached Mike & Bryan because of the enormous, non-stop demand for a follow up to Avatar.  So what did Mike and Bryan do?  They didn't just continue Aang's story.  They practically reinvented the world of Avatar, making it into a steampunk-ish, 1920s style world with all new characters.  That way they already have the groundwork of the background to the world but have full rein to flex their creative muscles.  I think it's a best of both worlds situation.

As for people who don't like Avatar's universe?  I think I can safely say they're a minority.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Holy Christ, this is just horrifyingly stupid. Let's get on with it...



Akimichi Juro said:


> A corrupt advisor voiced by Clancy Brown is a plot twist? Clancy Brown is so typecasted it'd be a bigger shock if he didn't betray everyone or turn evil (see: Thundercats, Superman, etc)



In _Spectacular Spider-Man_ he was NYPD Captain George Stacy. In the new Avengers show, he's Odin. In looking up on Wikipedia, he's Captain Black on _Jackie Chan Adventures_ and... he's Mr. Fucking Krabs? Wow. Learn something new every day.

Of course, you are still retarded, but that's really nothing new at this point.



> You don't have to see it to address the point.  30 episodes of no filler.  Nothing the West does can really say the same.



Except the idea of "filler" is based on anime adaptations of manga. Western shows have no "filler", because they are generally not direct adaptations.

And your bullshit claim was exposed last time on this. Apparently there are filler episodes, but you just don't recognize them.



> You mean the fanfiction EU universe? Has nothing to do with Lucas, so that doesn't count.  Can't use fanfiction to prove a point.



The EU is fanfiction somehow? Since when did this happen? Do I need to actually pull up real quotes on how LucasFilm regards its works?



> Rarely, usually everything in a manga is tied into it's story.  Not to mention manga usually has the privilege to do what they like because it's not as 'cancel' happy' as US TV.  Thundercats said each season will be it's own thing in case they're cancelled at any time.



Tying into a story doesn't mean you aren't milking something. Dragon Ball is a prime example of this, where the original story was lost due to outcry to keep Goku as the main hero. So they milked that instead.



> Naruto is a single story that still has story to tell, and everything's been moving forward with each chapter.



Oh Christ, that is fucking hilarious. Do you believe in Santa Claus, too?



> Avatar already ended and this is years later.  The fact they're trying it milk the name means they either have no creativity or the networks don't want them to experiment or try something new and are afraid to fund an untested product.



Or they are trying to continue on the story of the previous show. Is there anything to suggest that this started as a different project and was not intended to be connected to Avatar?

Just because it's in a different time didn't mean that Enterprise wasn't mean to be connected to the other Star Treks. Also, I'm not comparing this new Avatar series to Enterprise and hope to God that it is far better than Enterprise.



> All I know is you have people like Takeshi Obata and/or Tsugumi Ohba go who from Hikaru no Go, to Death Note to Bakuman, a huge leap in terms of narrative and stories across all three.  They didn't just make Death Note: The Next Generation or anything.  It'd be nice to see something non-Avatar from them, especially for people who dislike Avatar's universe.



To be fair, there wasn't much else to do with Deathnote that hadn't already been done. With Avatar, we are talking a completely different world to explore; traveling 50 years in the future allows them to explore a great many different things than they could previously.



> You keep comparing books to television, with is a faulty comparison, and can't really be argued either for or against because of how different they are and the process behind them.  Not to mention, if I understand your analogy right, you're equating one book to one episode of a show.  If anything, I'd say one book is one series, and each chapter is an episode.



I understand that you may be ignorant of the history of how stories have been produced, but the serialized stories of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's time are directly related to the Radio Serials of the 30's and 40's, which are themselves directly related to television. You'd be surprised at the similarities.

And Sherlock Holmes, while having 4 novels done about him, is better known for the over 50 short stories about the character. The point Grimm is making is that serialization is something which not only works for people, but has worked for literary characters who are recognized even today for their greatness.



> If you really want to play the "this writer has an undying fact opinion" then going by that logic, since Japan doesn't care, and they're the top dogs when it comes to animation,
> then western animation isn't good just from their opinion alone.



Do you understand what "logic" means? Grimm's choice of writer is universally-recognized as a great writer. Japan is _hardly_ recognized as the world leader in animation. You are just declaring it that because you are one of the most horrifying weeaboos I've ever fucking seen in my life, and I'm a High School teacher.

Grimm is trying to point out that plot is not dependent on "episodic" nature, citing well-respected authors and their works to disprove your point. You (and Dracostorm, who I'm starting to believe is a dupe account of yours) believe that plot has to be overarching. Why? Well, if I were to wager a guess, it's because most anime and manga episodes don't have a plot tied to an episode: Things might get done, but it's for some larger plot that will conclude... some time down the line. This is different from episodic content, whose plot is generally taken care of in one episode. While the consequences might continue on, the plot of the episode is taken care of.

The problem is that you have the foolish conception that, because you like one more than the other, the other one doesn't count. It's similar to something one of my friends says: Jazz isn't music. Well, by all accounts Jazz _is_ music; it's just music he doesn't like. Similarly, you apparently don't like episodic plots and shows. Fine. That doesn't mean they don't _have_ plots; they just conducted in a style either you don't like or that you (bafflingly enough) don't understand.



> You're under a presumption people care about superhero comics and that name means something to the average person/top-tier animation gurus.



Alan Moore is a respected writer all over. He's probably better known across the world than most Japanese writers are.



> Am I going to side with a guy who worked on a kid's superhero cartoon



He never worked on the cartoon, you fucking tard. He's a well-known writer how has done incredible work within comic books, superhero or otherwise.



> or the creator of Grave of the Fireflies when it comes to diversity and writing in animation.  I wonder.



Considering how incredibly varied Moore's own work is, I'd probably take Moore. But you are sort of violating your own rule about comparing books to film, since Moore doesn't work in animation. But I'll chalk that up to not knowing what you're talking about yet again.


----------



## Glued (Sep 27, 2011)

Moore doesn't work in animation, but his story "For the Man who has Everything." was put into JLU. The episode followed the comic move by move.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Moore doesn't work in animation, but his story "For the Man who has Everything." was put into JLU. The episode followed the comic move by move.



Pretty much.

More than that, though, you could really make good animated adaptions of a lot of his work. I'd love to see _V for Vendetta_ done right.


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 27, 2011)

Yes, I am cutting down on the nonsensical rubbish in your post to hit key points, because the rubbish is rapidly escalating.





Akimichi Juro said:


> I'm half tempted to do the whole 'it's hilarious you're comparing Batman  to literature' like people did before when I mentioned Naruto, but  rather than hurl insults and dodge the point, I'll actually address it.


To begin with, examples are often cited when Naruto is compared to literature. I pointed out a specific *STYLE* of literature that Batman: TAS incorporates within its structure.





> And again, as explained to you, Batman The Animated Series isn't focused  on plot and doesn't have one.


This is a lie. As explained to you, the plot of Batman is to protect Gothom from crime. As such, the story take on an episodic nature, telling many stories within a greater one. 

Since you enjoy anime so much, let's look at Cowboy Bebop. It has an episodic nature, yet it is still seen as one of the greatest anime series to date. And for a good reason, because each of the smaller stories are extremely well written within the larger story.





> Without getting into that debate again,  it's an entirely episodic series you can watch in virtually any order.


Which does not make it bad.





> Mad Love, for example,  despite being hailed as great, is pretty much filler.  They hit the  reset button at the end with Harley still liking the Joker.


Which only shows that you missed the point. The Joker has driven Harley to such a state of insanity and dependency, that she returns to him even when he has done the worst things possible to her. That was the point, and it does not nullify the development, nor is it filler.





> And  either the Joker shows up at the end to take Harley back and alls well  that ends well, or the episode ends and then suddenly the next time we  see her she's with the Joker again.  It's never explored or developed,  it just happens.


It doesn't "end well." As I said, it displayed how much he warped her mind. That even when she chooses to be done with him, one gesture can make her come right back, even though he has gone so far as to push her out of a window.





> The show never actually had any resolution for them.  Very few got  resolution (No, Harvey in a cell isn't resolution any more than a  character being arrested and sent to prison is.  You'd have to be an  idiot to think they won't break out or anything; especially since most  encounters with villains ended with them in jail.)  And no, Batman  Beyond/Return of the Joker doesn't count, because anyone can go back  years later in an entirely new show and insert an explanation  retroactively like they did with how the Joker died.


Yes, Return of Joker *DOES* count. You don't get to sit there and dismiss canon facts because you don't like them. That's special pleading





> .(the real nut kicker is the last episode  of it is all the heroes letting the villains run free in the streets, as  if mocking the very idea of 'closure'  A fitting end, I suppose.)


Yes, because as established over and over again, the heroes *DO NOT KILL*. Hence, they attempt to capture the villains. Seeing as how those villains had just helped them, they gave them a head start, rather than "running free in the streets."

The closure came when they defeated the bigger threat, being Darkseid.





> Maybe for America it's brilliant, but when you factor in anime, it doesn't even come close.


What bullshit. 


> As mentioned Zabuza/Haku relationship alone trumps  anything Batman did, because it actually developed and met a tragic end.


Another false assertion. Batman is full of characters with developed and tragic ends. Two-Face and Freeze being two of the best examples. Also, not everything has to be tragic to be well-written.

Even more amusing is that I posted a video that explained just some of the emotional depth the characters in Batman have, and you ignored it. 

And again, death is not a the only tool with which to convey powerful emotion or a tragic occurence. Baby Doll's life is an example of that.


----------



## Wan (Sep 27, 2011)

I think we might be tl;dr overloading Akimichi...


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 27, 2011)

Oman said:


> I think we might be tl;dr overloading Akimichi...


You say this as though it were a bad thing. When I confront a fool like this, I treat it like a dead body: I bury it deep so I don't have to worry about him hauling his brainless husk out of the ground and try and take _my_ brain.

That, and the smell.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 27, 2011)

So I cant be bothered to read all of this, but from what I gather is that we've finally moved past the retarded censorship debate and have moved on to what constitutes filler and canon...and that Juro has never read anything by Arthur Conan Doyle apparently.


whoo boy, I should entreench myself I suppose


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 27, 2011)

I can't read blocked messages but a question on what constitutes canon? Anything that the creator agrees to. It's that simple really. You can debate the meaning of filler until you turn blue but canon has a much easier definition.


----------



## Wan (Sep 28, 2011)

Not necessarily.  Once a creator is no longer working on an IP (ie Bungie no longer works on the Halo franchise) the owner of the franchise has authority to make new material and identify it as canon.


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 28, 2011)

That didn't work with Gargoyles. Disney owns the property but Greg Weisman stated that whatever episodes he didn't have a hand in, were to be thrown completely out the window. George Lucas has the ultimate say in what is canonical to the films. I believe that there are several levels of canon in the Star Wars universe, if he gives something the stamp of approval then that character, occurrence, vehicle, what have you, happened and no one can say jack squat. When Lucas becomes one with the Force eventually--I don't know what'll happen with that.

If the creator(s) willingly gives up his claim on a property he (or she) created then I suppose whatever committee is assembled can decide what is canon to a previously established storyline. James Cameron for example could care less what happened after Terminator 2. The rights to that franchise can be shifted around to the highest bidder. You could either go with James and believe that the war between Machines and Humans was no longer a looming threat by the end of the second film or follow whichever company holds the rights to the franchise.

With Avatar, there is a lot of supplemental material that was released when the series was going on. Are there really 36 chambers of Airbending? I don't know. Until Mike and Bryan say no then it'll be how I understand the levels of training that Airbenders go through. Was there really an Airbender named Afiko the Betrayer who helped Sozin and the Fire Nation army get to the Air temples? As much as it would help explain how the army ambushed the Air Nomads without technology from The Mechanist, it wasn't approved by Mike or Bryan so that's thrown out the window.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 28, 2011)

Actually Lucas appointed Leland Chee to oversee the Star wars Canon...so while Lucas does have a say there are still others who can determine it if and when he dies


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## Superstarseven (Sep 28, 2011)

Did not know that. OK, well that answers that.
Makes sense to have people in place since Star Wars has essentially become an industry.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 28, 2011)

Are you guys really still doing this?

Really?

*sigh*


 Guess I'll check back again in another week.


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## Burke (Sep 28, 2011)

everything in the 61 episodes of avatar is canon just as Korra itself will be canon.
What arent people understanding about this simple fact?


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## Jena (Sep 28, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> everything in the 61 episodes of avatar is canon just as Korra itself will be canon.
> What arent people understanding about this simple fact?



SHUT UP YOU DERANGED WHORE

I won't let ANYTHING get in the way of my Zutara.
The last episode was a JOKE.
MY PAIRING IS CANON AND NOTHING YOU CAN SAY WILL CHANGE THAT.
I REFUSE to watch Korra because the children of that HEINOUS AND NON-CANON PAIRING will be in it.


LOOK AT THAT OVERWHELMING CHEMISTRY

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to read The Night I Became Yours.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 28, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> everything in the 61 episodes of avatar is canon just as Korra itself will be canon.
> What arent *people* understanding about this simple fact?



I don't know if the plural is all that necessary in this situation.


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## Superstarseven (Sep 28, 2011)

That's a great impression of a crazed Zutarian.


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## Wan (Sep 28, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> With Avatar, there is a lot of supplemental material that was released when the series was going on. Are there really 36 chambers of Airbending? I don't know. Until Mike and Bryan say no then it'll be how I understand the levels of training that Airbenders go through. Was there really an Airbender named Afiko the Betrayer who helped Sozin and the Fire Nation army get to the Air temples? As much as it would help explain how the army ambushed the Air Nomads without technology from The Mechanist, it wasn't approved by Mike or Bryan so that's thrown out the window.



As far as canon for Avatar goes, there is of course the first series; also there's the Escape from the Spirit World interactive comic included on the Book 2 bonus disc, the more serious comics compiled in "The Lost Adventures" (the sillier ones...eh), and the old Avatar flash site that the writers used to deposit background information that they didn't have space to fit in the episodes.  Legend of Korra and the upcoming graphic novel series "The Promise" will also be canon.  I consider the DVD commentaries by the creators and the art book to be a valid source of information as well. The "Avatar Extras" popups...I'm still ambivalent about.

The novelizations, trading card game, and video games are non-canon because they did not involve the creators or writers at all.


----------



## Friday (Sep 28, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If you are referring to Aang from M. Night Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender,_ then you are correct, as the artist of that image did state that they modeled their image after a screenshot from that film, and they even say so in their comments.
> 
> However, why did you spell his name differently, as if his portrayal in the film is a completely different character? I understand that M. Night Shyamalan altered the pronunciations of the characters' names, and that most fans of the series dislike his film, but the characters are still the same characters; Shyamalan simply gave a different portrayal of them, or an "alternate character interpretation," if that term is sufficient.
> 
> For example, Joel Schumacher's _Batman_ films were different from Tim Burton's _Batman_ films, Christopher Nolan's _Batman_ films were different from both Burton and Schumacher's films, and all six films were different from the 1960's _Batman_ television series that starred Adam West. James McAvoy's Charles Xavier in _X-Men: First Class _ was very different from Patrick Stewart's Charles Xavier in the first three _X-Men_ films. Brandon Routh's Superman was very different from Christopher Reeve's Superman, yet, in none of those situations did I see a great amount of complaints from fans of those franchises, as I have seen with fans of the original _A:tLA_ series in reference to Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender._ Why is that?



Dude, how about asking your question, wait till I make my reply, and then decide whether or not a wall of text is worth posting?

I said Ong so I can identify him as Aang from the garbage movie. Aang from the cartoon never wore those clothes, but you would've been able to tell who Ong was from my way of spelling his name. It's exchangeable with saying Aang from M. Night Shamalama's The Last Airbender, I just made it easier and faster to type. 

And I disagree. Aang and Ong *are NOT* the same characters. That's like saying Commodus from Gladiator (2000) is the same as the Commodus from history. Two very different people. Well maybe using a real life person is a bad example, but I'll prove it even further if you bother to finish reading. (although, tbh, I hardly find it a bad example as it's all about interpretations, and there's always an original)

The movie was worth a penny compared to the show, which was worth millions. If you did not see that, then you are blind or just a rare specie of an Avatar fan. If I ever complain about the movie, it's because I LOVED the show very much, I even watch it today during meal breaks and might watch it in half an hour. Batman to me is very different because I've never read the comics (to a great extent), but still enjoyed watching the cartoons. 

I can tell you that the Batman in the Brave in the Bold is not much like the one in JLU, and I enjoyed a darker adaptation of Batman. But off the top of my head, I don't know how the original character acted.

I also hate the Dark Knight's interpretation of Batman, but enjoyed the movie because of the Joker interpretation because if you look at all the different Jokers, some are more different than others. The Joker as I remember him in The Dark Knight was more dark and scary, while the one from the JL series showed to have a more looney insanity.


----------



## Bringer (Sep 28, 2011)

Jena said:


> SHUT UP YOU DERANGED WHORE
> 
> I won't let ANYTHING get in the way of my Zutara.
> The last episode was a JOKE.
> ...




damn are you hearing your self.

I hate both these parings made.I believe they should just be friends all of them.

But everyone and there grandmothers know that katara and anng are canon. They even have a kid..


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 28, 2011)

How's it going new guy? Anyway, you missed the joke.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 28, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> In _Spectacular Spider-Man_ he was NYPD Captain George Stacy. In the new Avengers show, he's Odin. In looking up on Wikipedia, *he's Captain Black on Jackie Chan Adventures* and... he's Mr. Fucking Krabs? Wow. Learn something new every day.



I did not at all know that; I thought that Captain Black's voice was familiar somehow. Thank you very much, and your final sentence in that paragraph is completely accurate. 



Friday said:


> Dude, how about asking your question, wait till I make my reply, and then decide whether or not a wall of text is worth posting?
> 
> I said Ong so I can identify him as Aang from the garbage movie. Aang from the cartoon never wore those clothes, but you would've been able to tell who Ong was from my way of spelling his name. It's exchangeable with saying Aang from M. Night Shamalama's The Last Airbender, I just made it easier and faster to type.
> 
> ...



Yes, In that case, I suppose that you have a very good point. I have not seen Shyamalan's _The Last Airbender,_ but if it is as bad as the other users here claim it to be, then there is no need for me to see it, and I certainly would never regard it as being equal in quality to the original series. I simply believe that feeling excessive hatred for it is rather harsh and that it would be better to simply ignore the film rather than acknowledge its existence by saying negative words about it.

As for the subject of what is and is not canon to this series, I say that, until the creators of the series say otherwise, everything that occurred within the series proper is canonical, while any other material non-canonical, including any relationships that did not occur within the series. I can understand the frustration of the users who wished for different endings for certain characters, but there is very little that the average viewer can do to influence the outcome of a fictional series, so I believe that this is a great opportunity to learn the valuable lesson of accepting unpleasant realities in life that one cannot change.


----------



## J. Fooly (Sep 28, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I did not at all know that; I thought that Captain Black's voice was familiar somehow. Thank you very much, and your final sentence in that paragraph is completely accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You should watch this DDJ. These guys mock the Last Airbender.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGgzS8kC0h4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Glued (Sep 28, 2011)

He was also the Dark Dragon on American dragon

[YOUTUBE]LAuya9XN2Q8[/YOUTUBE]

Terrible show, but it some good comedy bits. Spud was funny as hell.


----------



## Jena (Sep 28, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> That's a great impression of a crazed Zutarian.


IMPRESSION?

Good sir, I am _offended_! Zutara is my life, ok? It's so fucking serious that I fap to it every night before I cry myself to sleep over a tub of chocolate ice cream. How _dare_ you. How _dare_ you, sir.

You must be a Kataang shipper. They are all TOTALLY NUTS.




BringerOfChaos said:


> damn are you hearing your self.
> 
> I hate both these parings made.I believe they should just be friends all of them.
> 
> But everyone and there grandmothers know that katara and anng are canon. They even have a kid..


No, no it's-



Superstarseven said:


> How's it going new guy? Anyway, you missed the joke.


What he said.


----------



## Burke (Sep 29, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I don't know if the plural is all that necessary in this situation.



In reference to the several others who bring it up.

Not talkin bout you or anyone cool.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 29, 2011)

So I don't think anyone every answered or maybe my post never went through, but there is talk of the show being delayed until 2013. Does anyone know if this is true?

I didn't know there was a Legend of Korra website (or maybe I forgot...). Its pretty cool looking. xD *Hopes I have not gone crazy*


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## Wan (Sep 29, 2011)

It's just a rumor AFAIK.  I've seen no official confirmation of the delay.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 29, 2011)

Okay, found the source of the rumor/blah.



@Oman
I hope so. I don't think I can wait until 2013 xD


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## Wan (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm not so sure about the trustworthiness of that page...it's some random wiki user's blog.  The Dark Horse link is troubling though.  The blogger is mistaken about Dante Basco's quote.  The only thing that he would know is if the finale is _recorded._  He isn't involved in the animation "filming" process so he would have no knowledge of that.

Edit:



			
				DemonDragonJ said:
			
		

> As for the subject of what is and is not canon to this series, I say that, until the creators of the series say otherwise, everything that occurred within the series proper is canonical, while any other material non-canonical, including any relationships that did not occur within the series. I can understand the frustration of the users who wished for different endings for certain characters, but there is very little that the average viewer can do to influence the outcome of a fictional series, so I believe that this is a great opportunity to learn the valuable lesson of accepting unpleasant realities in life that one cannot change.



Do you not consider the comics to be canon then?


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 29, 2011)

Friday said:


> The Joker as I remember him in The Dark Knight was more dark and scary, while the one from the JL series showed to have a more looney insanity.



Joker from JL was more loony, but it actually made him just as, or even mor, dangerous than the one in The Dark Knight when he was at his worst.

Like when he used Ace to nearly drive millions of people insane, with Batman only narrowly stopping him.

Speaking of Ace, she was another great example of what made the DCAU series so great. Her story was tragic because all she wanted was someone who understood her to be her friend, and in the end Batman managed to comfort her before her death. That was well-written and emotional.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 29, 2011)

Oman said:


> I'm not so sure about the trustworthiness of that page...it's some random wiki user's blog.  The Dark Horse link is troubling though.  The blogger is mistaken about Dante Basco's quote.  The only thing that he would know is if the finale is _recorded._  He isn't involved in the animation "filming" process so he would have no knowledge of that.



I think Dante was talking about his voice in the new series being complete? Oh well, I guess I have to wait a little longer to see if another source is found, or if they make an official update.


----------



## Burke (Sep 29, 2011)

Hey terra baby, nice to see you here again. 

edit: im holding a legit twitter convo with zach tyler!


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Sep 29, 2011)

And you're not bothering to post the conversation?!


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 29, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Hey terra baby, nice to see you here again.
> 
> edit: im holding a legit twitter convo with zach tyler!



Thanks Noo-err St. Burke (You changed your name? :amazed). Can I call you Burke or ST.B?

Really? What's being said? Share! Share!


EDIT:
Thanks Doctor Crane for having an avatar that scared me.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Sep 29, 2011)

Oman said:


> Uh, sure.  In that case the casting is a _result_ of the plot twist, and an out-of-universe one at that.  It's still a plot twist.



A predictable one, like Zuko joining the good guys.  Technically it's a curve in the story, but one as old as time and not very unique.



> But _why?_ Miss "The Storm" and you won't know.


They address it multiple times though, and it's still not in the same board as episodes flowing into one another.



> So the show relies on continuity so heavily that it requires a recap of previous episodes for people who haven't seen them?  Thanks for supporting my point.


I don't mean those episode recaps (which a lot of shows do) I mean the random expositions the characters say "C'mon guys, it's a shame Appa was kidnapped, now we gatta go find him because I'm worried"  



> Oh wow, for once I wish Fang was in this thread.  The expanded universe isn't fan fiction, it's canon.  The point -- that you seem to keep evading -- is that just because a show doesn't address lingering problems at its conclusion doesn't mean they aren't there or hurt the show's maturity.  Bringing up those problems can ruin the satisfying effect of a hopeful ending.


I don't really care about Star Wars lore, but if it's not by Lucas.  Then again, Lucas is so batcrap crazy it's even hard to take his own work seriously.

I suppose that's the main difference between the west and east.  Eastern works are a lot more creator driven and owned.  Look at comic books.. what the hell is canon in them? You have new writers every few issues that throw retcons all over the place (and there's a ton of Star Wars comics alone)  So Western 'canon' is very loose and unformed, where a guy can say a comic or book or video game he had no hand in (say, those Star Wars EU Books) are canon despite never reading them.  At that point it's no longer Lucas' original idea (but then, what is at this point? It keeps changing).  To me, only the movies are, and if a book wants to try to fill in the gap, good for them, but they're just glorified fanfiction as far as I'm concerned.



> Right, a guy who tossed Zuko aside like a rag doll and pinned down Team Avatar multiple times is fodder.  Sokka used his brains to defeat Combustion Man, and while he's not always _sharp_ when it comes to thinking the show has established that he's the best member of the group when it comes to thinking out of the box.  The way he took down Combustion Man was totally in accord with his character and was a nice moment for him to shine.


Sokka beat him by complete accident/dumb luck at randomly throwing a boomerang.  That's pretty fodder-ish.



> Point being?  It's still an important part of the plot.


Point being he's hardly a important person with an important job; his kids could kick his ass by the amount of feats we've seen.



> The Earth Kingdom had fought for a century without an Avatar.  If Aang did lose, it would be a major blow but they would still fight.  Why not send the adults?  Because Ba Sing Se would still be occupied.  A war often does not come down to a single battle.  It's a series of victories that end it


I'd say killing the guy/leader of who was behind it would be a dang good start to ending it.



> And nevermind the parallels of Iroh reconquering Ba Sing Se, considering his past with the city.  Nothing would be lost by Iroh not doing it...


A task better suited to helping Aang take down Ozai.  A tag-team match, or a group beat down would have been great



> And why do I get the feeling that Ba Sing Se would be one of the things you would cite as unresolved if they _hadn't_ taken it back?


There's plenty of other things they left unresolved to worry about a throwaway city.



> A run-of-the-mill drill sergeant is not going to have the same knowledge as Pakku, and no matter how much experience you have you're not going to magically know advanced forms you were never taught.


I'm willing to bet any active fighting soldier in the marines could still kick your ass, let alone the ass any average 12 year old out there. 



> So far Thundercats has had a number of episodes tied in with defeating Mumm-ra.  But tying it with the story wasn't your point, you said they would milk it and make season after season.  After 10+ years of series like One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, and other manga/anime the same can be said of them arc after arc.


We don't know what Thundercats writers mean if they'll stretch Mumm-ra out or do new villains (unlikely, since it's an 80s toy commercial show so keeping active characters like Mumm-Ra around is manditory) but the difference is Naruto and One Piece and them are headed by one guy, not a team of writers who switch off each episode like Thundercats/Avatar/etc.



> How did the Wave arc play into this "single story"?  Chunin exams?  Getting Tsunade to be Hokage?  Sasuke running off to join Orochimaru?  Sure, there's plenty of continuity between them, but they are not the same plot.  They are not the same story.  They have different conflicts, different rising actions, different climaxes, and different conclusions.  Kishimoto is making up arcs as he goes along. At best you can say that Naruto uses the same set of characters.


I'm not sure what you mean.. the Chuunin Exams and Orochimaru tie directly into the Akatsuki.  Itachi's massacre of the Uchiha leading to Sasuke becoming an avenger and seeking power with Oro, who wanted him to take out the Akatsuki which Itachi was in on because Oro couldn't beat him which also invovled Naruto which.. everything pretty much ties into each other.  As explained, Zabuza arc was more or less an introduction to the world and characters (building up Team 7 relationship) as well as setting the seeds for future events and plot points (Swordsmen of the Mist, for example)



> The creators of Avatar aren't "milking" it.  If they had wanted to milk the franchise they would have continued after season 3 of the first show.  They actually are pretty adamant about not letting a story get dragged along indefinitely.  Bryan Konietzko said in a documentary:
> 
> "If someone came up to me and said, 'I want to tell you a story.  It's the best story in the world.' Awesome! 'It never ends.'  I would turn and walk the other way.  I don't want to hear a story that never ends!"


How ironic.



> As for people who don't like Avatar's universe?  I think I can safely say they're a minority.


Um, you realize most people in the world don't like the show, yes? The fans would be in the minority.  Just pointing that out



> I think we might be tl;dr overloading Akimichi...


Nah, especially when I make it a point never to argue or listen to someone who spews out personal insults like Guy Gardner and others.  Maybe if they constructed their thoughts in a more presentable and intelligent manner, then they'd be worth addressing.

Though I will say the guy who's trying to say Cowboy Bebop, a show made specifically with 26 episodes with episodes tying into the characters, their past, and the resolved ending is the same as a howeverlong episodic superhero cartoon with no goal or resolutions laughable.  You're right, Cowboy Bebop is regarded as one of the best anime out there (in America anyway) but it's also regarded higher than that superhero cartoon, because despite being told in an episodic format, the execution of the story and characters far outshines and puts the American format of 'episodic' to shame.  Hell, Avatar has already surpassed Batman alone in that regard, you don't even have to use real anime; like I said, Zuko's development alone puts anything in the DCAU to shame, since it has actual build up and resolution.


----------



## Wan (Sep 30, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> A predictable one, like Zuko joining the good guys.  Technically it's a curve in the story, but one as old as time and not very unique.



As Guy Gardner pointed out, Clancy Brown does _not_ always voice scheming villains.  And it's still making a prediction using behind-the-scenes information, not within the context of the plot itself.  The plot twist itself was not expected.  I mean, after Team Avatar took down the Drill and was set to go inside Ba Sing Se, were you honestly thinking "Yep, I bet it's a police state that will give Team Avatar trouble as they end up challenging the esablished order of things."?  Up until that point the Earth Kingdom as a nation had been the _good guys._  The idea of a police state is certainly not unique to fiction (it's not "as old as time" though), but originality is not the same thing as unpredictability.  Also, unpredictability is not the same as having a complex plot.  So you're wrong both on the point of the plot being predictable and on the point of the plot being pretty basic and simple.



> They address it multiple times though, and it's still not in the same board as episodes flowing into one another.



When they address it they are _building upon_ how it was first shown in "The Storm".  Zuko's confrontation with Ozai in "The Day of Black Sun" would have been a lot less effective and dramatic if we hadn't _seen_ what Ozai had done to his son (or seen the events in "Zuko Alone", for that matter).  Episodes don't need to flow into one another for events in one episode to be important to another.



> I don't mean those episode recaps (which a lot of shows do) I mean the random expositions the characters say "C'mon guys, it's a shame Appa was kidnapped, now we gatta go find him because I'm worried"



Show me where Avatar does this.  No really, find the quote.  If it's just events of past episodes being important to the plot at hand and the characters acting as such, then it's not a big deal.  Overexposition about past events is, but that's not something I think Avatar really ever did. (as opposed to a flashback every 5 minutes for something that happened a couple episodes ago in Naruto)



> I don't really care about Star Wars lore, but if it's not by Lucas.  Then again, Lucas is so batcrap crazy it's even hard to take his own work seriously.
> 
> I suppose that's the main difference between the west and east.  Eastern works are a lot more creator driven and owned.  Look at comic books.. what the hell is canon in them? You have new writers every few issues that throw retcons all over the place (and there's a ton of Star Wars comics alone)  So Western 'canon' is very loose and unformed, where a guy can say a comic or book or video game he had no hand in (say, those Star Wars EU Books) are canon despite never reading them.  At that point it's no longer Lucas' original idea (but then, what is at this point? It keeps changing).  To me, only the movies are, and if a book wants to try to fill in the gap, good for them, but they're just glorified fanfiction as far as I'm concerned.



What you think is worth nothing on this matter.  George Lucas and the guy he pays to manage EU stuff, Leland Chee, decide what is canon and they've approved of the EU.  You don't decide.  The EU is for the most part canon, period.

I'll let someone more familiar with comic books comment on that, but I will say that the idea that "eastern works are a lot more creator driven" than Western works is so weaboo it would make small children cry if they saw it.



> Sokka beat him by complete accident/dumb luck at randomly throwing a boomerang.  That's pretty fodder-ish.



Sokka beat him by precisely figuring out Combustion Man's position through analyzing the angles of his blasts, then throwing his boomerang on the exact curve needed to hit him right in the third eye.  It's actually something completely possible through mathematics, though most people would need a few minutes and pen and paper to do it.  That's pretty genius-ish.



> Point being he's hardly a important person with an important job; his kids could kick his ass by the amount of feats we've seen.



What does combat ability have to do with his importance to the plot?  He rallied everyone for the Day of Black Sun invasion and led it, up until when he got hurt.  Not to mention he helped Team Avatar escape the Earth Kingdom with a comatose Aang.



> I'd say killing the guy/leader of who was behind it would be a dang good start to ending it.



Which they believed Aang would already have covered.



> A task better suited to helping Aang take down Ozai.  A tag-team match, or a group beat down would have been great



...what does that have to do with what I said?



> There's plenty of other things they left unresolved to worry about a throwaway city.



Again.  How is the Earth Kingdom capital, the single place the characters spent the most time at in the whole show, and the place whose fall was a major plot point, somehow a "throwaway city"?



> I'm willing to bet any active fighting soldier in the marines could still kick your ass, let alone the ass any average 12 year old out there.



We're not talking about modern marines.  Soldiers going through the discipline of boot camp is a pretty recent development in the real world.  Ancient armies just pulled able-bodied men off the streets, gave them a spear and told them to stab enemies, and that's probably all that the Fire Nation did.



> We don't know what Thundercats writers mean if they'll stretch Mumm-ra out or do new villains (unlikely, since it's an 80s toy commercial show so keeping active characters like Mumm-Ra around is manditory) but the difference is Naruto and One Piece and them are headed by one guy, not a team of writers who switch off each episode like Thundercats/Avatar/etc.



The single author is a behind-the-scenes difference but it doesn't prove actual differences in plot development.



> I'm not sure what you mean.. the Chuunin Exams and Orochimaru tie directly into the Akatsuki.  Itachi's massacre of the Uchiha leading to Sasuke becoming an avenger and seeking power with Oro, who wanted him to take out the Akatsuki which Itachi was in on because Oro couldn't beat him which also invovled Naruto which.. everything pretty much ties into each other.  As explained, Zabuza arc was more or less an introduction to the world and characters (building up Team 7 relationship) as well as setting the seeds for future events and plot points (Swordsmen of the Mist, for example)



As I said, there's _continuity_ between the plots of each arc, but those plots are still separate.  One could say that defeating Akatsuki is a plot in itself, but that plot didn't start until at least after the Chunin exams and arguably not until Part 2 when the characters made it an actual goal to defeat Akatsuki.  Even then, Part 2 has had separate arcs with separate plots, separate problems, separate rising actions, separate climaxes, and separate conclusions.   Simply having a recurring villainous organization is no different than recurring villains from the superhero shows you deride so much.

Take the Invasion of Pain arc, for example.  The problem was that Pain was threatening Konoha in order to capture Naruto.  Jiraiya's confrontation with Pain, Naruto's training to learn Sage Mode, and the beginning of the invasion itself were part of the rising action.  The climax was Naruto's confrontation with Pain, and the conclusion was Pain's death and using his power to restore those who had died in the invasion.  That plot is over because the problem is resolved.  The next arc -- the Third Shinobi World War arc -- had its own plot as well, with a problem (Madara is threatening the entire world), rising action (Five Kage summit, Naruto learning to control the kyubi's power, the various fights going on now); the climax has yet to occur.  

While events from the prior arc may effect the current arc, they are still separate plots.  They are no more a "single story" than different story arcs in the same comic book continuity or different story arcs in a show like "Thundercats".



> Um, you realize most people in the world don't like the show, yes? The fans would be in the minority.  Just pointing that out



You're confusing people who actively dislike the show with people who have just never seen the show.  The only people who would care that it's set in the world of Avatar at all would be people who have seen the first show, and out of those people I am pretty confident in saying more people liked it than didn't like it.  "Most people don't like the show" in the sense that most people in the world haven't seen it so they don't like or dislike it one way or the other.  So the setting wouldn't matter to them one way or the other either.



> Nah, especially when I make it a point never to argue or listen to someone who spews out personal insults like Guy Gardner and others.  Maybe if they constructed their thoughts in a more presentable and intelligent manner, then they'd be worth addressing.



You deserve every insult against your intelligence they've made.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Sep 30, 2011)

How do I "ignore" someone anyway.  Not that I can imagine there's anyone in this thread I'd want to ignore or anything.  Just a totally random question that has absolutely nothing to do with the current retardation, I mean conversation.


----------



## Wan (Sep 30, 2011)

Since Ben Grimm mentioned it:



Ben Grimm said:


> He was also the Dark Dragon on American dragon
> 
> [YOUTUBE]LAuya9XN2Q8[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Terrible show, but it some good comedy bits. Spud was funny as hell.



American Dragon: Jake Long was an ok show for the most part; it had a few good episodes that showed it had potential.  Unfortunately that potential was wasted by Disney Channel's handling of the show.  Cancelled after two seasons, and it wasn't even given a two part episode for the finale.  The show's writers did what they could to wrap things up in the show's one episode finale, but that resulted in the episode feeling rushed.

It highlights just how fortunate Avatar was in spite of being on Nickelodeon, which keeps trying their darnedest to beat Disney Channel at their own game in recent years.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 30, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> How do I "ignore" someone anyway.  Not that I can imagine there's anyone in this thread I'd want to ignore or anything.  Just a totally random question that has absolutely nothing to do with the current retardation, I mean conversation.



You go to their profile and press the dropdown box and then add them to your ignore list. Or you can go to your CP and add them there.


----------



## Burke (Sep 30, 2011)

Oman said:


> Since Ben Grimm mentioned it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah what kind of shit were they pulling, changing the whole style of the show halfway through...


----------



## Bender (Sep 30, 2011)

Love your new set Terra.


----------



## VerdantVenus (Sep 30, 2011)

That's a very familiar looking scabbard...


----------



## Superstarseven (Sep 30, 2011)

Interesting.
Reminds me that the sword hanging in the armory the gang visited was based on one that Sifu Kisu has in his collection.

By the way RekkyD, did you know that most people in the world don't like Avatar:The Last Airbender?


----------



## Wan (Sep 30, 2011)

Also apparently Ba Sing Se is a throwaway city and the twist of it being a totalitarian police state was totally predictable and as old as time.

Really, where does this stuff come from?  It's troll gold.  This is the kind of troll you can't bait, you have to wait for it to come and relish every moment of pointing and laughing at it...


----------



## Glued (Sep 30, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Though I will say the guy who's trying to say Cowboy Bebop, a show made specifically with 26 episodes with episodes tying into the characters, their past, and the resolved ending is the same as a howeverlong episodic superhero cartoon with no goal or resolutions laughable.  You're right, Cowboy Bebop is regarded as one of the best anime out there (in America anyway) but it's also regarded higher than that superhero cartoon, because despite being told in an episodic format, the execution of the story and characters far outshines and puts the American format of 'episodic' to shame.  Hell, Avatar has already surpassed Batman alone in that regard, you don't even have to use real anime; like I said, Zuko's development alone puts anything in the DCAU to shame, since it has actual build up and resolution.


No resolution? You just forced me to bring out Sinestro.
[Youtube]MNS9MzGOQtU[/Youtube]

Wesker finally overcoming his other personality, Scarface. Throwing the dummy into a chipper. Falling in love. Getting a job at Wayne tech.

Shayera deciding to betray her own people for the sake of Jon and the Justice League.

Superman slowly becoming a darker version of himself. Even willing to kill.

Professor Emil Hamilton, one of Superman's closest friends decides to betray him, create Galtea and the Ultiman.

Wildcat, who was obsessed with pit fighting, decides to quit once he thought that he killed Green Arrow

Rubber Band Man, deciding to give up a life of crime for the sake of Virgil's sister.

Alva decides to stop hunting Static after he gets his son back.

Spawn became more human as a Hellspawn than he did when he was alive.

Draaga follows the footsteps of Superman and understands the meaning of honor from Superman. Draaga becomes the new leader of War World.

Mala and Jax-Ur fell into a black hole. Superman becomes a hero and saves a planet.

Jon Stewart destroys the Manhunters..

Aquaman chopped off his own hand and then killed his brother.

Superman defeats the collector and takes all of his endangered species, bringing them to Earth. The Collector has been left in space.

In episode of Batman Beyond: Joyride, one of the Jokers decides to take off his red nose and leave the ganglife permanently.

Jimmy from Static picking up a gun, going to kill some students, accidentally hurting Richie. Jimmy drops the gun and realizes what he's done. The police come and take Jimmy away.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 30, 2011)

I hate how far Superman & Batman have strayed from their origins. I was able to track down online their stuff that's older than even my dad. 

Why are we discussing other shows/heroes in Avatar?


----------



## Glued (Sep 30, 2011)

Oman said:


> Since Ben Grimm mentioned it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


\

That is not what I meant.

Jake Long repeated the same mistake several times. Even dog isn't that dumb.

Don't use magical items to cheat, don't use magical items to take short cuts, don't use magical items to take the easy way. How long does it take to learn a single moral lesson. How many times do you have to screw up until it finally hits you not to screw up.

Only good reason to watch the show, Spud. Spud was awesome. The guy had me busting a gut.


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 30, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Nah, especially when I make it a point never to argue or listen to someone who spews out personal insults like Guy Gardner and others.  Maybe if they constructed their thoughts in a more presentable and intelligent manner, then they'd be worth addressing.


Style over substance fallacy.

*Person 1*: Who needs a smoke detector? No one ever has a fire in their house, smoke detectors are a waste of money!
*Person 2*: What?! You'd rather save a bit of money than ensure your family's safety? Don't you care whether they burn to death, you idiot?
*Person 1*: I don't have to take your insults! Go away!

When you fail to offer any point of refutation to an argument, you concede.


> Though I will say the guy who's trying to say Cowboy Bebop, a show made specifically with 26 episodes with episodes tying into the characters, their past, and the resolved ending is the same as a howeverlong episodic superhero cartoon with no goal or resolutions laughable.


What's laughable is that your attempt to differentiate the two despite them both having an episodic nature. Both have overarching plots with mini-plots within each episode. Your assertion that the superhero cartoons have no resolution is also false. It's just not the resolution you want.





> You're right, Cowboy Bebop is regarded as one of the best anime out there (in America anyway) but it's also regarded higher than that superhero cartoon, because despite being told in an episodic format, the execution of the story and characters far outshines and puts the American format of 'episodic' to shame.


Which is another unsupported assertion. There have been specific examples of excellent storytelling from the cartoons. You're only sitting there and claiming one to be better than the other with nor explanation.





> Hell, Avatar has already surpassed Batman alone in that regard, you don't even have to use real anime; like I said, Zuko's development alone puts anything in the DCAU to shame, since it has actual build up and resolution.


Yes, you said. Yet you didn't explain, nor did you offer any valid refutation to our arguments against it.

You don't get to sit there and make a bunch of claims without evidence or convincing arguments and expect us to accept them.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 30, 2011)

> I Go Crazy Because of You (Japanese)
> 
> That's a very familiar looking scabbard...


Space Sword...?  



Black Titan said:


> Love your new set Terra.



Why thank you :33


----------



## Guy Gardner (Sep 30, 2011)

> I don't really care about Star Wars lore,



... because you realized you were completely off-base on it and didn't know what the fuck you were talking about? I suppose this is as close as we are going to get to a concession, but I'll take it.



> but if it's not by Lucas.  *Then again, Lucas is so batcrap crazy it's even hard to take his own work seriously.*



The irony of this statement is absolutely startling.



> I suppose that's the main difference between the west and east.  Eastern works are a lot more creator driven and owned.



Except there are plenty of creator-driven works here, especially in comics. Most mainstream comic book writers do work outside of the Marvel and DC Universes. In fact, Mark Millar has his own imprint where people do creator-owned stuff.



> Look at comic books.. what the hell is canon in them?



Anything that isn't said to be out of canon? Typically speaking, it's pretty easy to know what canon is and isn't. While the reboot does make it harder to navigate, the reason behind that is they aren't relying on past "canon" (Canon is technically only something which comes in when a work is completely finished. Hence, Biblical Canon and such.) works for reference so new readers and just jump in.



> You have new writers every few issues that throw retcons all over the place (and there's a ton of Star Wars comics alone)  So Western 'canon' is very loose and unformed, where a guy can say a comic or book or video game he had no hand in (say, those Star Wars EU Books) are canon despite never reading them.



Putting down the idea of "Eastern" and "Western" conceptions of "canon" is a completely foolish idea. The vast majority of writers on both sides of the pond don't stay up at night worry about what is canon or not: They simply write what they write.



> At that point it's no longer Lucas' original idea (but then, what is at this point? It keeps changing).  To me, only the movies are, and if a book wants to try to fill in the gap, good for them, but they're just glorified fanfiction as far as I'm concerned.



But as far as *George Lucas and his company* are concerned, those books are within the continuity. Now if George contradicts a _book_ in something he does then he overrules it.



> We don't know what Thundercats writers mean if they'll stretch Mumm-ra out or do new villains (unlikely, since it's an 80s toy commercial show so keeping active characters like Mumm-Ra around is manditory) but the difference is Naruto and One Piece and them are headed by one guy, not a team of writers who switch off each episode like Thundercats/Avatar/etc.



But they are all on the same staff, and they all know what's going into the meeting. There's no way that a writer on a cartoon doesn't know about who is writing what: it's a team effort.



> I'm not sure what you mean.. the Chuunin Exams and Orochimaru tie directly into the Akatsuki.



No, the events themselves don't really tie into Akatsuki, outside the idea that Orochimaru was a former Akatsuki agent. Just because a former CIA agent is involved in something doesn't really mean that this ties into the CIA.



> Itachi's massacre of the Uchiha leading to Sasuke becoming an avenger and seeking power with Oro,



That was well after, and that doesn't have anything to do with _Akatsuki_. Again, just because you are a part of that organization doesn't mean your problems are its problems.



> who wanted him to take out the Akatsuki which Itachi was in on because Oro couldn't beat him which also invovled Naruto which.. everything pretty much ties into each other.



Loosely, everything ties to each other. I can't argue that. But those aren't tight connections: I'll point out that Kimimaro was also regarded as an ideal vessel before Sasuke. If anything, Sasuke is something like third on the "Boys Orochimaru Wants to Get Inside" Depth Chart.



> As explained, Zabuza arc was more or less an introduction to the world and characters (building up Team 7 relationship) as well as setting the seeds for future events and plot points (Swordsmen of the Mist, for example)



Are the  



> How ironic.



Yeah, ironic! A show which lasted 61 episodes, and a spinoff that will be getting 26 more! Because you like shows that end, like Bleach (Currently 343), Naruto (Currently 452 if you include both series together), and One Piece (Currently 517). WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



> Um, you realize most people in the world don't like the show, yes? The fans would be in the minority.  Just pointing that out



... No, most people are likely indifferent to it. In fact, it's probably more apt to say that's more true of anime than Avatar, though I don't think it's fully true with anime either.



> Nah, especially when I make it a point never to argue or listen to someone who spews out personal insults like Guy Gardner and others.  Maybe if they constructed their thoughts in a more presentable and intelligent manner, then they'd be worth addressing.



You'd have to say something intelligent for me to address it in an intelligent manner. Considering you're just throwing about a bunch of poorly-formed opinions based on gross misconceptions, I'd say not the one who is failing to hold up their side.



> Though I will say the guy who's trying to say Cowboy Bebop, a show made specifically with 26 episodes with episodes tying into the characters, their past,



There are plenty of episodes which don't tie into the past. In fact, most of the episodes are about showing characterization and how the characters react to the present than the past. It's why the episodes about the past are so amazing: they aren't always there, but they provide so much wonderful background and interpretation to the other episodes without having to strictly and directly reference them.



> and the resolved ending is the same as a howeverlong episodic superhero cartoon with no goal or resolutions laughable.



I can't remember the figure, but shows like Naruto and One Piece ran double the amount DCAU episodes, which spanned 5 different series. And those two still aren't over.

You realize how stupid it is talking about how those shows endlessly go on when not only did they stop, but the shows you talk about it are double the length and are still going?



> You're right, Cowboy Bebop is regarded as one of the best anime out there (in America anyway)



It's not highly regarded elsewhere?



> but it's also regarded higher than that superhero cartoon,



Based on...?

Actually, don't worry. I doubt you'll be able to put anything on that. I will point out, however, that the Batman: Mask of the Phantasm was far more highly regarded than the Cowboy Bebop movie.



> because despite being told in an episodic format, the execution of the story and characters far outshines and puts the American format of 'episodic' to shame.



Except it doesn't. It uses the American style, and uses it well. The reason it is so highly regarded is the gritty, realistic tale which American audiences related to. It's also why Batman: The Animated Series was so highly touted by people: it's has a realistic, gritty feel to it that makes its protagonist not
only a legend, but a human as well.

It's kind of funny when you are supporting an anime which goes against all the conventions you list because it is an anime, but fail to recognize that all it does it follow the same format that the shows you rip on have. WHOOO!



> Hell, Avatar has already surpassed Batman alone in that regard,



I'll debate _that_, though I'll admit my knowledge of Avatar is limited. I do highly respect what they've done with their lovely show, though.



> you don't even have to use real anime;



Yeah, it's almost like the idea of anime being superior by the fact that it's an anime is a complete sham! Weird like that, isn't it?



> like I said, Zuko's development alone puts anything in the DCAU to shame, since it has actual build up and resolution.



Like Batman (Both Bruce and Terry), Superman, Lex Luthor, the Flash, John Stewart, Hawkgirl, every Batman villain, a good amount of Superman villains, and I'm sure I could keep going if I really tried.

Please, child, don't talk about what you obviously don't know and never will.

Edit: I'd also like to apologize any and all Avatar Fans reading this. I hate taking over a thread, and if the mods could move this obviously off-topic conversation to its own thread, I'd be incredibly thankful.


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 30, 2011)

Seems you guys beat me to everything that needs to be said already...but as it stands though...

He's actually right about Bepop being more popular in America than it is elsewhere, though he's also wrong that it's the only country that likes it.


----------



## Glued (Sep 30, 2011)

Anyways, I was thinking about Bolin, for some reason I have a feeling he's going be turned into the butt of jokes in Korra.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 30, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Anyways, I was thinking about Bolin, for some reason I have a feeling he's going be turned into the butt of jokes in Korra.



Most likely. If he is as funny as Sokka or if he's more funny, I wouldn't mind one bit. :3

Though it would be fun and completely unexpected if it was the pretty boy -- who I can't recall the name of -- was the jokester or the center of jokes.


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 30, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Actually, don't worry. I doubt you'll be able to put anything on that. I will point out, however, that the Batman: Mask of the Phantasm was far more highly regarded than the Cowboy Bebop movie.


As it should have been. The Cowboy Bebop movie was really good, but Mask of the Phantasm was just excellent. I imagine Akimichi's criticism would be "But we didn't see the Joker die or how he escaped in it!!!" while failing to realize that sometimes ambiguity can actually give something a more powerful conclusion than showing us everything. It allows the audience to think for themselves.   


> I'll debate _that_, though I'll admit my knowledge of Avatar is limited. I do highly respect what they've done with their lovely show, though.


As someone who has seen both shows, I would argue that Batman: TAS is still superior to Avatar. But that does not take anything away from the amazing work Avatar has done.


----------



## Bender (Sep 30, 2011)

@Akinichi Juro

Stop...Just stop you're making a terrible case.

Wish they would bring more news concerning Avatar Legend of Korra. Looking at the gifs makes me even more pumped up for the show.


----------



## Quaero (Sep 30, 2011)

Back on the subject of Korra. 

A lot of people I've talked with think that Amon is a bender, an airbender specifically, and I think it actually does make sense. 

Airbenders as a civilization were wiped out by other benders. And the grudge against firebenders could have evolved into hatred against all benders over time. 

Any airbender that somehow managed to survive Sozin's hunt would have justified anger against the avatar, as he failed to enact it's duties.

What do you guys think?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Sep 30, 2011)

It would seem inconsistent with Mike and Bryan's persistent mythology... it would seem like a distortion to me and closer to fanfiction, and undermine Aang's struggle. I'm perfectly fine with all the Airbenders of the Korra world being confined to Tenzin's family.


Oh, and watch the shows on Avatar Portal if you want to watch them online, please.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 30, 2011)

Oman said:


> ^^I don't think so.  The creators have been pretty clear that the Equalists are anti-benders who use Ty Lee's fighting style in order to take on benders.  Anything's possible I suppose, but for now I don't see anything connecting the Equalists to the Airbenders.



The Equalists may be, but it was never said if Aman/whatever could or couldn't, so maybe its possible.

I don't personally think he is, but *shrugs*


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 1, 2011)

LOL, AJ is claiming that Dracostorm is his girlfriend? So what, they took the same Level 1 Screenwriting Class together and came here to share their deep understanding of structure and devices?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 1, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> LOL, AJ is claiming that Dracostorm is his girlfriend? So what, they took the same Level 1 Screenwriting Class together and came here to share their deep understanding of structure and devices?



... Wait, _*what*_?! Did I miss something?


----------



## Wan (Oct 1, 2011)

Before you joined the discussion Jove revealed that DracoStorm and AJ have the same two IP addresses linked to their accounts.  I asked AJ through user comments if DracoStorm was his dupe, family member, girlfriend, or anything else and AJ replied that she is (or at least was) his girlfriend.

Although I would think if she was his girlfriend and they are still together then she would have shown up for this discussion by now.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 1, 2011)

Huzzah. I just finished this series today because only losers watch things when they first air.  

What do I say about it apart from I loved it? This show is eastern influence on western animation at its healthiest and most realized. Unlike Teen Titans (a show I liked, mind you) the nods to anime don't feel like pandering otaku-hooplah but rather it is handled with respect and the more annoying nuances like characters eyes going white and eye twitches are forgiving kept to a minimum. The fight scenes are amazing, the mythos is deep and the attention to detail when it comes to continuity is something I haven't seen in an animated series in a long time. I mean, characters hair grows! Over time! For some reason that makes me smile.

-----------------

The show isn't without its flaws and one of the things that sort of irked me a bit was characters responding inconsistently with the supernatural things around them... namely Sokka. 

Okay, Sokka is a skeptic and didn't buy into the fortune teller's powers in that one episode. That makes sense because we know Sokka is more on the logical side of things and we saw how the people were sort of relying on her rather then themselves because of the supposed supernatural power. 

What didn't make sense to me though is Sokka's insistence that nothing supernatural was going on in the swamp episode. Why would his character be so dead-set against the supernatural? Bear in mind that at this point he saw a man blot out the moon by killing a fish, said fish drain the hair color out of his girlfriend BEFORE turning the girlfriend, essentially, into the moon.... the moon-girl kissing him full on the lips in ghostly moon form. 

*I ask you... What cause would this character ever have to be skeptical about supernatural things? * It does not make any sense. Its one thing for Skully to constantly be skeptical in the X-Files because, in spite of what she saw with Mulder, she grew up in a world of logic. The world of Avatar is deeply entrenched in spirits (most of which are visible) and myths and legendary powers. I really felt they were stretching Sokka's character with his whole halfway-atheism schtick.

I had the same problem with The Painted Lady episode in Book Three. They reveal the _real_ Painted Lady at the end of the episode all mystical-like as though we haven't been seeing spirits in this series from day one. That's like having Santa Claus crash at your house all summer and fall, have him completely disappear during Christmas time prompting you to pretend to be him, and suddenly he shows up in a spectral-like mist during the New Years Eve party and says "thank you my blessed son" before vanishing. Its... kind of weird.

Also, was not in love with Toph and her cardboard parents.

------------------ 

But those are just nitpicks for the sake of nitpicks. Avatar really surprised me and I await Legend of Korra with bated breath.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 1, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Also, was not in love with *Toph* and her cardboard parents.





**


----------



## Bender (Oct 1, 2011)

There are two people I hate the most ATLA. Namely, Sokka, Aang, and Katara.

Sokka: His sexism irritates the living crap out of me in the beginning.  

Aang: Being too gentle (understandable) and pacifistic nature doesn't match that of my fav chars who are also pacifistic like Samurai Jack from Samurai Jack.

Katara: Is a contradicting team mom (talking about not scamming people and yet there's the water bending scroll episode).

My favorite characters are:

Toph

Iroh

The Boulder

Zuko

Best characters in the whole show. pek pek


----------



## Bender (Oct 1, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Also, was not in love with Toph and her cardboard parents.
> 
> ------------------





Why you sonofabitch


----------



## Wan (Oct 1, 2011)

@Furious George: Oh of course, it has its flaws that one can pick at if you look closely enough (Akimichi Juro needs glasses though).  "The Painted Lady" was one of if not the worst episode of Book 3.  Some things that most fans like may not click with everyone...I can't image why in the world you would not like Toph, but if she doesn't entertain you that's fine.

But of course, it's still a fantastic show, one of my favorites.  Glad you enjoyed it.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Oct 1, 2011)

Oman said:


> As Guy Gardner pointed out, Clancy Brown does _not_ always voice scheming villains.  And it's still making a prediction using behind-the-scenes information, not within the context of the plot itself.  The plot twist itself was not expected.  I mean, after Team Avatar took down the Drill and was set to go inside Ba Sing Se, were you honestly thinking "Yep, I bet it's a police state that will give Team Avatar trouble as they end up challenging the esablished order of things."?  Up until that point the Earth Kingdom as a nation had been the _good guys._  The idea of a police state is certainly not unique to fiction (it's not "as old as time" though), but originality is not the same thing as unpredictability.  Also, unpredictability is not the same as having a complex plot.  So you're wrong both on the point of the plot being predictable and on the point of the plot being pretty basic and simple.



Always? No, I suppose not, but it's a pretty safe bet.  Just like Cree Summers may not voice every teenage black girl all the time, but it's still a typecast and overdone.

Not to mention even before that, everything about Long Fang screams "I am a villain".  If I predict it, then I can't be wrong on it being predictable by definition.



> When they address it they are _building upon_ how it was first shown in "The Storm".  Zuko's confrontation with Ozai in "The Day of Black Sun" would have been a lot less effective and dramatic if we hadn't _seen_ what Ozai had done to his son (or seen the events in "Zuko Alone", for that matter).  Episodes don't need to flow into one another for events in one episode to be important to another.


Zuko mentions his dad giving him his scar many times in the show, actually


> Show me where Avatar does this.  No really, find the quote.  If it's just events of past episodes being important to the plot at hand and the characters acting as such, then it's not a big deal.  Overexposition about past events is, but that's not something I think Avatar really ever did. (as opposed to a flashback every 5 minutes for something that happened a couple episodes ago in Naruto)


Aside from the example I listed, I'll quote a good review of the series I read in the past

"The first problem is how the third season begins. We have a cliffhanger  ending in the previous season. Okay, we all know Aang's going to  survive, but we didn't know how or what they were planning to do now  that their plan had fallen apart. So, how do they go about resolving  this cliffhanger? Why, by having it resolved off screen, of course.  Instead we get told second-hand about what happened. What would've  worked better would have been to have an episode at the start of the  season showing us what happened and keeping up the suspense rather than  ruining all suspense and telling us what had happened. Given how much  filler we'll have to sit through after this, it seems like an extra  episode would have been a good move at alleviating it a little of it."

Pretty much the entire first episode of season 3 was exposition about what happened (both on and off-screen to boot) 



> What you think is worth nothing on this matter.  George Lucas and the guy he pays to manage EU stuff, Leland Chee, decide what is canon and they've approved of the EU.  You don't decide.  The EU is for the most part canon, period.


Good for them.



> I'll let someone more familiar with comic books comment on that, but I will say that the idea that "eastern works are a lot more creator driven" than Western works is so weaboo it would make small children cry if they saw it.


Yes, yes, even implying something of Japanese origin being better than anything American at all is weeaboo to you, isn't it? Definitely not Ameriboo to say the opposite, eh?  Especially when it's something that is just plain factual.

How many people have wrote One Piece?
Now, how many people write Batman?

It's no hidden secret manga is far more creator driven than American comcis are, that's why they're so popular around the world while American comics aren't.  They offer stories and writing styles you can't find anywhere else.  That's why their animation and comic industry is so much stronger and diverse than our own.  Now you'll insult people from pointing out simple facts?



> Sokka beat him by precisely figuring out Combustion Man's position through analyzing the angles of his blasts, then throwing his boomerang on the exact curve needed to hit him right in the third eye.  It's actually something completely possible through mathematics, though most people would need a few minutes and pen and paper to do it.  That's pretty genius-ish.


He peeked around a corner and begged his boomerang to do something before throwin it, then looked disappointed when Combustion Dude stood up.  That's dumb luck.  You want some actual planning or strategy watch Shikamaru.. or heck, Usopp.



> What does combat ability have to do with his importance to the plot?  He rallied everyone for the Day of Black Sun invasion and led it, up until when he got hurt.  Not to mention he helped Team Avatar escape the Earth Kingdom with a comatose Aang.


Considering the original statement was how most adults are useless, it fits pretty well how he's weak and everything he does end up being failures.  Kids outshine him at every opportunity.



> Which they believed Aang would already have covered.


So it's 'only the Avatar can save us' then?

Though now that I think about it, it is funny they prioritize Ba Sing Se over the airships.  I guess they felt three kids have that covered as well? Two of which can't bend and the other is probably the worst match up and can't see if she's off the ground? Interesting.



> ...what does that have to do with what I said?


That prioritizing Ozai over Ba Sing Se would make more sense



> Again.  How is the Earth Kingdom capital, the single place the characters spent the most time at in the whole show, and the place whose fall was a major plot point, somehow a "throwaway city"?


You mean compared to the Fire Nation leader and a fleet of airships minutes from burning the entire kingdom? I'd say from simple fact if the airships were failed to get stopped, the city would burn anyway.



> We're not talking about modern marines.  Soldiers going through the discipline of boot camp is a pretty recent development in the real world.  Ancient armies just pulled able-bodied men off the streets, gave them a spear and told them to stab enemies, and that's probably all that the Fire Nation did.


Pure conjecture on your part, especially when you're trying to apply real-world history to a fantasy show with magic (and we actually see people training... especially when it's the whole point of the show)



> The single author is a behind-the-scenes difference but it doesn't prove actual differences in plot development.


Which is why we'll have to wait and see how it turns out ultimately.



> As I said, there's _continuity_ between the plots of each arc, but those plots are still separate.  One could say that defeating Akatsuki is a plot in itself, but that plot didn't start until at least after the Chunin exams and arguably not until Part 2 when the characters made it an actual goal to defeat Akatsuki.  Even then, Part 2 has had separate arcs with separate plots, separate problems, separate rising actions, separate climaxes, and separate conclusions.   Simply having a recurring villainous organization is no different than recurring villains from the superhero shows you deride so much.
> 
> Take the Invasion of Pain arc, for example.  The problem was that Pain was threatening Konoha in order to capture Naruto.  Jiraiya's confrontation with Pain, Naruto's training to learn Sage Mode, and the beginning of the invasion itself were part of the rising action.  The climax was Naruto's confrontation with Pain, and the conclusion was Pain's death and using his power to restore those who had died in the invasion.  That plot is over because the problem is resolved.  The next arc -- the Third Shinobi World War arc -- had its own plot as well, with a problem (Madara is threatening the entire world), rising action (Five Kage summit, Naruto learning to control the kyubi's power, the various fights going on now); the climax has yet to occur.
> 
> While events from the prior arc may effect the current arc, they are still separate plots.  They are no more a "single story" than different story arcs in the same comic book continuity or different story arcs in a show like "Thundercats".


Yes, they're actually the same... well except for the fact the villains in Naruto actually get  resolution/killed, have an actual tangible goal outside crime or other  scheme-of-the-week things, and get actual plot development.    If you're  really saying the Akatsuki is the exact same as superhero rogue  galleries then that's pretty laughable.  I somehow doubt they'll be fighting the same guy for 50 years like Batman has.  



> You deserve every insult against your intelligence they've made.


Ad hominems, really? You were doing decently well too.



Oman said:


> It highlights just how fortunate Avatar was in  spite of being on Nickelodeon, which keeps trying their darnedest to  beat Disney Channel at their own game in recent years.



Nickelodeon destroys Disney Channel in the ratings, so I doubt Nickelodeon particularly cares what Disney does.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> **





Black Titan said:


> Why you sonofabitch



If you will put down your pitchforks I will explain.  

*I'll be clear and say I didn't hate Toph.* How could I? She is responsible for the single most awesome moment in the series... that obviously being when she wrapped herself in steel and Spider-Manned all over the Fire soldiers' faces in the last episode(s).

Still though, you have to admit she was a very easy and obvious character. 

-She's small but she's tough... get it? 

-Its funny because they are making gags about her being blind! 

-I wonder if her parents are going to see things her way? It would be the rational thing to since they saw her rape grown men and even an Earth-bending master told them she is very talen- no, we are going full cliche and unrealistic? Fine then, make her rebel! She's spicy!  

The other characters are archetypes too (like Sokka and Zuko) but Toph just never felt natural to me.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Oct 1, 2011)

Too many long quotes... fills up the post limit.



> Wesker finally overcoming his other personality, Scarface. Throwing the dummy into a chipper. Falling in love. Getting a job at Wayne tech.
> 
> Shayera deciding to betray her own people for the sake of Jon and the Justice League.
> 
> ...


You just described episode plots, not resolutions.. especially one episode characters like that school shooting episode of Static Shock.  How is the introduction episode for Aquaman a resolution when he shows up plenty more times?

I don't even know what you where you were going with some of them.. Superman slowly becoming dark? You mean that alternate future thing? Doesn't really count.  Superman never really got resolution, the last episode was, as said, them running into the sunset to capture criminals they just let go.

Lex Luthor? He shows up randomly, lures Darkseid away from Earth then.. nothing.  Obviously they were going to follow up on that but were cancelled so they couldn't.  No resolution for either of them there.  Is this like the 'Harvey in a cell' type of resolution where as long as we don't see them come because of cancellation it counts?



> It's not highly regarded elsewhere?


It's more liked in America than it is in the rest of the world.. most likely because of it's American setting, and it was one of the very first 'adult anime' to air on the new Adult Swim, so most people getting into anime saw it as one of their first... so American fans have more ties to it.

I mean, compared to US animation, sure, it's a masterpiece, but in Japan? It's mid-tier to them, they have plenty better shows to see and it doesn't rank on their 'best cartoons ever' lists they do every so often.



> It's kind of funny when you are supporting an anime which goes against all the conventions you list because it is an anime, but fail to recognize that all it does it follow the same format that the shows you rip on have. WHOOO!


Batman the Animated Series ended on a random episode.. Bebop ended on a very noteworthy one it always intended to.  Bebop was made with an ending in mind, Batman wasn't.  That's kind of the key difference, and if you still say they're the same type of show it shows how little you know of animation.



			
				Guy Gardner said:
			
		

> Putting down the idea of "Eastern" and "Western" conceptions of "canon"  is a completely foolish idea. The vast majority of writers on both sides  of the pond don't stay up at night worry about what is canon or not:  They simply write what they write.



So you're saying the comic and animation industry for America and Japan are the same.  There's no fundamental differences?  That's terribly untrue, and anyone who's work in either can tell you that. 



> Based on...?


The fact anime/manga in general is more highly regarded than American animation/comics? The fact you see more people talk about it and praise it than B:TAS? The fact you have multiple anime conventions that dwarf the size of Comic-Con (which isn't even about comics anymore when I can go there and see a panel for a freaking Harold and Kumar movie) then I think it's clear anime and manga are more liked than American animation is in the world.  How many 'American animation' conventions are there? It's not an actual culture or hobby like anime is.  And I hate to use those 'critics' argument like some people, but when you have multiple critics saying things like this, then yeah, they're going to hold the average anime in higher regard than a kid's cartoon.

I mean, when you get the writers behind B:TAS actually saying they were influenced and tried to be like anime and wished they could have done it better, then I think they kind of just admitted it right there themselves.  B:TAS.. maybe it's impressive for a US show (though I don't exactly see people mention it or anything) but in general? Nope.  That's why every half-baked site's 'Top Animation' list has anime on it, but Japan's never has like Avatar or Rocko's Modern Life on it... nothing the US makes really matters to the rest of the world (or even really America itself.. animation is only a kid's thing here, after all)


----------



## Furious George (Oct 1, 2011)

*AJ*, bro, do you mind just not saying things anymore? 

The argument is BARELY on topic at this point and you''re not doing all that well. I'm trying to really discuss the show here.


----------



## Gunners (Oct 1, 2011)

Urgh can people start spoiler tagging the excessively long posts.


----------



## Bender (Oct 1, 2011)

Furious George said:


> If you will put down your pitchforks I will explain.



You better 

*cracks knuckles*



> *I'll be clear and say I didn't hate Toph.* How could I? She is responsible for the single most awesome moment in the series... that obviously being when she wrapped herself in steel and Spider-Manned all over the Fire soldiers' faces in the last episode(s).



Eh, was more prototype stuff IMO like Alex covers himself in armor. 



> Still though, you have to admit she was a very easy and obvious character.



Eh, Zuko's character seemed more confusing if you ask me. As Iroh summed it up he was an amalgamation of light and darkness. Half of him carried the blood of fire lord leaders that slaughtered people and seeked conquest while the rest was that of an avatar's child.



> -She's small but she's tough... get it?



 


It would've been nice had Toph been able to fight Azula more like Katara, Aang, and Zuko had been able to. It's like she barely got any fights except against fodder.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 1, 2011)

Furious George said:


> If you will put down your pitchforks I will explain.
> 
> *I'll be clear and say I didn't hate Toph.* How could I? She is responsible for the single most awesome moment in the series... that obviously being when she wrapped herself in steel and Spider-Manned all over the Fire soldiers' faces in the last episode(s).
> 
> ...



Okay, as long as you don't hate her I won't stick a pitch fork through you (like in this). :33


----------



## Wan (Oct 1, 2011)

Akimichi Juro said:


> Always? No, I suppose not, but it's a pretty safe bet.  Just like Cree Summers may not voice every teenage black girl all the time, but it's still a typecast and overdone.
> 
> Not to mention even before that, everything about Long Fang screams "I am a villain".  If I predict it, then I can't be wrong on it being predictable by definition.



Yeah, we know by the end of "City of Walls and Secrets" that Long Feng and the Dai Li are going to be a big problem for Team Avatar.  That's the _twist._  Before that episode it's completely unexpected.



> Zuko mentions his dad giving him his scar many times in the show, actually



No, not "many".  And it's still not in the way that "The Storm" gives an understanding about his character and motivations.



> Aside from the example I listed, I'll quote a good review of the series I read in the past
> 
> "The first problem is how the third season begins. We have a cliffhanger  ending in the previous season. Okay, we all know Aang's going to  survive, but we didn't know how or what they were planning to do now  that their plan had fallen apart. So, how do they go about resolving  this cliffhanger? Why, by having it resolved off screen, of course.  Instead we get told second-hand about what happened. What would've  worked better would have been to have an episode at the start of the  season showing us what happened and keeping up the suspense rather than  ruining all suspense and telling us what had happened. Given how much  filler we'll have to sit through after this, it seems like an extra  episode would have been a good move at alleviating it a little of it."
> 
> Pretty much the entire first episode of season 3 was exposition about what happened (both on and off-screen to boot)



That's exposition about something that never happened on screen at all that the audience needs to know, which is different than what you were claiming -- needless exposition of something that happened a few episodes ago.

For the record though, I actually agree that it would have been better to have the episode at the beginning of the season show them escaping Ba Sing Se (shocker, I know).  I can see what they were going for, though, with the shock factor of Aang waking up on a Fire Nation ship.  A couple of comics published in Nickelodeon Magazine a week before the airing of the premiere did a good job of showing how they escaped Ba Sing Se though (and how Zuko & Mai got back together).



> Yes, yes, even implying something of Japanese origin being better than anything American at all is weeaboo to you, isn't it?



Yes.  Yes it is.  You're not talking about specific works or even genres here.  You're talking about all works from the "East" and the "West" as a whole, and making a blanket statement that they're more creator driven.  It's _not_ factual and it's _very_ weaboo.  If we're going to talk about differences between the Eastern and Western approaches to storytelling in general, that discussion would include not just animation but live action television and movies, as well as literature.  Good luck trying to argue against the past couple millenia of Western literature.

Now, there is a point in the idea that the America makes less attempts at serious animated series overall than Japan -- live action is a bigger deal in the America than Japan.  But that doesn't mean that the serious animated series American studios and other Western studios have made are worse on average than Japanese animated series, or that their storytelling style and structure is somehow inferior.



> Definitely not Ameriboo to say the opposite, eh?



And I'm not.  Eastern works and Western works are _equally_ creator driven, in my mind.



> Especially when it's something that is just plain factual.
> 
> How many people have wrote One Piece?
> Now, how many people write Batman?
> ...



How _long_ have both been around?  If you're talking "creator driven" in the strict sense that the creator has direct control over the franchise, that's impossible in Batman's case because Bob Kane, creator of Batman, is _dead._  And he retired from writing comics long before he died.  If we talk "creator driven" as in creators of storylines for the characters rather than corporations looking for money, then Batman is very creator driven.  Various people have had a hand at making Batman stories -- Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Tim Burton, Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Christopher Nolan -- and each time they put their best talents to work in the resulting stories.  Very creator-driven, if not by a single creator.

The rest of what you say is like a genocide against kittens. 



> He peeked around a corner and begged his boomerang to do something before throwin it, then looked disappointed when Combustion Dude stood up.  That's dumb luck.  You want some actual planning or strategy watch Shikamaru.. or heck, Usopp.



Nope.  He visibly traces the paths of the blasts as part of determining where Combustion Man is.  He (thankfully) doesn't fall into the shonen cliche of explaining every little detail of what he's doing, because the show respects the audience's intelligence to put two and two together.  Well.  Most of the audience.



> Considering the original statement was how most adults are useless, it fits pretty well how he's weak and everything he does end up being failures.  Kids outshine him at every opportunity.



Being "useless" in combat does not make him useless to the plot.  Yes, he's a secondary character to his kids, but he's still an important character overall.



> So it's 'only the Avatar can save us' then?



Actually the way Iroh puts it is more like "Only the Avatar _should_ save us".



> Though now that I think about it, it is funny they prioritize Ba Sing Se over the airships.  I guess they felt three kids have that covered as well? Two of which can't bend and the other is probably the worst match up and can't see if she's off the ground? Interesting.



It's not like they could have gotten the whole Order over there.  They had to give Sokka, Suki, and Toph the fastest animal in the world to get there; it's understandable if they only had one on hand.



> That prioritizing Ozai over Ba Sing Se would make more sense



Which still has nothing to do with what I said that you were quoting, which had to do with the dramatic effect and symbolism of the attack.



> You mean compared to the Fire Nation leader and a fleet of airships minutes from burning the entire kingdom? I'd say from simple fact if the airships were failed to get stopped, the city would burn anyway.



Again, they already had that covered as best as they could.  I should point out that if they waited until after Sozin's Comet had passed, they would be stuck sieging the city without Iroh's fireball of doom to bust right through.



> Pure conjecture on your part, especially when you're trying to apply real-world history to a fantasy show with magic (and we actually see people training... especially when it's the whole point of the show)



Pure conjecture?  It was pure conjecture on _your_ part to equate Fire Nation soldiers to friggin _marines_ when the world of Avatar much more resembles something like ancient Asia.  And we see soldiers training?  When?



> Yes, they're actually the same... well except for the fact the villains in Naruto actually get  resolution/killed, have an actual tangible goal outside crime or other  scheme-of-the-week things, and get actual plot development.    If you're  really saying the Akatsuki is the exact same as superhero rogue  galleries then that's pretty laughable.  I somehow doubt they'll be fighting the same guy for 50 years like Batman has.



You're continuing to ignore how just about everyone else has been pointing out that superhero shows _do_ get resolution.  And Batman has several separate continuities, so it's not fair to look at the Batman franchise in general and say "It never has conclusion!"  Might as well look at a poster of Naruto from part 1 and say "See!  He's still young! No conclusion!"  Anyways, didn't Guy Gardner in the "Superhero Shows Don't Have Plots" thread point out that Naruto or some other manga has actually had more chapters in its ten year run than Batman has had issues in its whole existence?  So, in a sense, Naruto _has_ been fighting the same guys for just as long as Batman has.  If you compare both Naruto animes to Batman: The Animated Series or even the DCAU in general by sheer volume of episodes, the same holds true.



> Nickelodeon destroys Disney Channel in the ratings, so I doubt Nickelodeon particularly cares what Disney does.



Um...are you not aware of something called "Hannah Montana", that basically caused Nickelodeon to create "iCarly" in response?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 1, 2011)

Moved my post to a place where it's actually .


----------



## Wan (Oct 1, 2011)

Oh, so we're back to talking about Avatar?  Sounds good to me.



Furious George said:


> If you will put down your pitchforks I will explain.
> 
> *I'll be clear and say I didn't hate Toph.* How could I? She is responsible for the single most awesome moment in the series... that obviously being when she wrapped herself in steel and Spider-Manned all over the Fire soldiers' faces in the last episode(s).



Damn straight. 



> Still though, you have to admit she was a very easy and obvious character.
> 
> -She's small but she's tough... get it?
> 
> ...



She's not a very complex character, I'll admit.  The show has enough complex characters.  Her main purpose in the show, aside from plot importance, is to be awesome and make everything around her awesome. 

I will say that she is given some depth about her relationship with her parents in the episode "The Runaway" (an underrated episode of Avatar, IMO).


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Oct 1, 2011)

Oman said:


> Yeah, we know by the end of "City of Walls and Secrets" that Long Feng and the Dai Li are going to be a big problem for Team Avatar.  That's the _twist._  Before that episode it's completely unexpected.



Mainly since that's the first episode he shows up in IIRC.



> No, not "many".  And it's still not in the way that "The Storm" gives an understanding about his character and motivations.


But you can at least agree it's still nothing like the example I give, where the episode begins with someone fighting someone else.  Avatar is much easier to get into and forgiving because it's episodic.



> That's exposition about something that never happened on screen at all that the audience needs to know, which is different than what you were claiming -- needless exposition of something that happened a few episodes ago.


Well season 3 in general is full of it.  Sokka and others constantly talk about their upcoming invasion, things that happened episodes ago, and in general goals are constantly referenced and stated just in case you forgot or missed an episode.



> A couple of comics published in Nickelodeon Magazine a week before the airing of the premiere did a good job of showing how they escaped Ba Sing Se though (and how Zuko & Mai got back together).


I already made my dislike of out-of-source-material being needed to compensate for a hastily written show.  



> Yes.  Yes it is.  You're not talking about specific works or even genres here.  You're talking about all works from the "East" and the "West" as a whole, and making a blanket statement that they're more creator driven.  It's _not_ factual and it's _very_ weaboo.  If we're going to talk about differences between the Eastern and Western approaches to storytelling in general, that discussion would include not just animation but live action television and movies, as well as literature.  Good luck trying to argue against the past couple millenia of Western literature.


Except we're specifically talking about animation.



> Now, there is a point in the idea that the America makes less attempts at serious animated series overall than Japan -- live action is a bigger deal in the America than Japan.  But that doesn't mean that the serious animated series American studios and other Western studios have made are worse on average than Japanese animated series, or that their storytelling style and structure is somehow inferior.


Except they are by default because of the industry.  I worked for Nickelodeon for a few years and you wouldn't believe how many times I saw a bright-eyed guy come in and get his dreams shattered by the executives.  Women got the most burnt of it, though.



> And I'm not.  Eastern works and Western works are _equally_ creator driven, in my mind.


Then you are misguided.  Shows are far more executive driven and mettled here than they are over there.



> How _long_ have both been around?  If you're talking "creator driven" in the strict sense that the creator has direct control over the franchise, that's impossible in Batman's case because Bob Kane, creator of Batman, is _dead._


I rest my case.  Superhero comics are made for the company and writers just take turns writing them.  Even if a specific writer makes a specific character, he's owned by the company.   Even after the guy dies his work is being mutilated. 



> And he retired from writing comics long before he died.  If we talk "creator driven" as in creators of storylines for the characters rather than corporations looking for money, then Batman is very creator driven.  Various people have had a hand at making Batman stories -- Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Tim Burton, Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Christopher Nolan -- and each time they put their best talents to work in the resulting stories.  Very creator-driven, if not by a single creator.



Wow.  That's so disconnected from any real world interpretation of creator driven I don't even know where to start.  



> Nope.  He visibly traces the paths of the blasts as part of determining where Combustion Man is.  He (thankfully) doesn't fall into the shonen cliche of explaining every little detail of what he's doing, because the show respects the audience's intelligence to put two and two together.  Well.  Most of the audience.


You're still using conjecture.  Nothing he did suggested he knew that hitting his head thing would block his power.  In fact, everything he said and did suggested it was pure luck given his reactions to the lack of confidence in his throwing ability and the effect it had on him.



> Actually the way Iroh puts it is more like "Only the Avatar _should_ save us".


That's not really the point.



> It's not like they could have gotten the whole Order over there.  They had to give Sokka, Suki, and Toph the fastest animal in the world to get there; it's understandable if they only had one on hand.


And they don't ride it themselves because...



> Again, they already had that covered as best as they could.  I should point out that if they waited until after Sozin's Comet had passed, they would be stuck sieging the city without Iroh's fireball of doom to bust right through.


It's not like they have a flying animal or Earthbenders or anything to get over some walls... and forget about the new Fire Lord pulling the troops out manually, just out of the question.



> Pure conjecture?  It was pure conjecture on _your_ part to equate Fire Nation soldiers to friggin _marines_ when the world of Avatar much more resembles something like ancient Asia.  And we see soldiers training?  When?


With magic, you mean.  We already went over how little the show knew of Asian culture.  Let alone when we see dozens of people want to go train with Sokka's sword teacher guy.. chances are the Fire Nation can train their soldiers better than a 12 year old kid.

And for one thing, with Pakku.  We visit various military compounds in the show.



> You're continuing to ignore how just about everyone else has been pointing out that superhero shows _do_ get resolution.


Just because "everyone else" (and by everyone else I assume you mean the two guys who are named after superhero comic characters, ironically enough)  say it over and over doesn't make it true.  You can play the same game and go find all the people who read manga and ask them why they don't read comics and get the same answer from them if you want to play the numbers game, but let's not get into a 'might makes right' situation over this.  They can say it as many times as they want and I'll point out how it's not closure at all.



> And Batman has several separate continuities, so it's not fair to look at the Batman franchise in general and say "It never has conclusion!"


I look at B:TAS by itself.. no conclusion
I look at the comics by itself.. no conclusion.

I'm not crossing continuities here.



> Might as well look at a poster of Naruto from part 1 and say "See!  He's still young! No conclusion!"


Well aside from the fact the series is still going strong and that'd be a stupid thing to do compared to B:TAS which is over a decade old.



> Anyways, didn't Guy Gardner in the "Superhero Shows Don't Have Plots" thread point out that Naruto or some other manga has actually had more chapters in its ten year run than Batman has had issues in its whole existence?  So, in a sense, Naruto _has_ been fighting the same guys for just as long as Batman has.  If you compare both Naruto animes to Batman: The Animated Series or even the DCAU in general by sheer volume of episodes, the same holds true.


If he did, then I'd love to see his math given Detective Comics alone has more issues than Naruto does chapters (not that it'd mean anything because 1) Naruto is a weekly series, while comics are monthly, 2) He's equating issue number rather than chronological time for that very reason, I imagine, since it makes the numbers favor him more and 3) all of Naruto is one single story.  Those comic books are not and there's no overall story or goal, or really any kind of ending point for them.  That's why they have reboots, retcons, crisis, and so forth.



> Um...are you not aware of something called "Hannah Montana", that basically caused Nickelodeon to create "iCarly" in response?


No.. no they didn't.  You're thinking of Naked Brothers Band, and even then, iCarly trounces all over Hannah Montana in the ratings (which is pretty old at this point truth be told)  Nickelodeon has always been more successful and popular than Disney Channel.  Besides, Zoey 101 predates Hannah Montana.  This stuff is my forte given my history. Trust me, Nick doesn't care what Disney does, that's why we can do the 'Worldwide Day of Play' and still bring in the big ratings.


----------



## Wan (Oct 1, 2011)

I'm taking my response to the thread Guy Gardner made.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 1, 2011)

There was one debate thread started because of DracoStorm's rants on comic books and now her boyfriend, Akimichi Juro, has caused enough trouble to warrant one for his rants also. That's something they can share with their kids in 10 years.

*Anime is Superior to Western Animation*? Ben Grimm, you're needed elsewhere.
With your encyclopedic knowledge of obscure and forgotten 'toons, you are definitely a ringer.


----------



## Noah (Oct 1, 2011)

Just noticed the dude claimed to have worked at Nickelodeon. 

All this argument needed from him was Godwin's Law and he would have covered all the steps to an internet troll debate.


----------



## Glued (Oct 1, 2011)

I'm done. This guy doesn't even understand the concept of a short story. He avoids parts of my argument such as Zog's death, or Samurai Jack killing the viking or Fall, Zooming straight on X9. And when we compared X9 to digimon, he made the argument X9 isn't alive. Then when Waking Dreamer says that those machines are like Giants and dragons, Juro hides behind Waking like Sycophant saying that is what he was thinking. Except for the fact Digimon are dragons and giants. And when I bring up Spawn, he says that was 10 years ago. Well Gargoyles and Batman TAS was 10 years ago. He says Spawn is the exeption, he has no idea about Spicy City or The Maxx. Series such as the Silver Surfer, or Captain Simian tackled high level philosophy. He says that Western animation has no romance or drama. Archie's weird Mysteries, Sabrina the Animated Series had romance, Princess Guinivere and the Jewel Riders had romance. Sherlock Holmes had 50  short stories, his nemesis Moriarty continuously escaped. However he never said if Sherlock Holmes had a story or not. He brings up Harvey never got closure, so I bought up Wesker, I also bought up how Aquaman killed his brother, I bought up how Jax-Ur and Mala died. He says he can't see Superman becoming darker. Superman wanted to kill Luthor, he almost killed Mongul, he did infact kill Darkseid even though he came back to life. 

Here is a 9 minute story of John Henry.

[Youtube]MxL38z9brtc[/Youtube]

You don't need 300 episodes to tell the story of John Henry. 

John Henry does not have an overarching plot. John Henry even felt like giving up, until his wife gave him some confidence to go on. He had conflict, then he resolved to finish the job.


I'm done with this argument.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 1, 2011)

You people are still entertaining Juro?

lol


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> You people are still entertaining Juro?
> 
> lol



More like keeping him out of this thread. "Far, far greater thing I do today" sort of deal. It felt like a worthwhile trade. If you want him back, though...


----------



## Glued (Oct 1, 2011)

Yo Guy Gardner my favourite episode of avatar was Tales of Ba sing Se, you should check it out.

5 short stories in one episode, one dealing with Iroh and the loss of his son


----------



## Guy Gardner (Oct 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Yo Guy Gardner my favourite episode of avatar was Tales of Ba sing Se, you should check it out.
> 
> 5 short stories in one episode, one dealing with Iroh and the loss of his son



And here I thought this was going to be Kayne West joke

"Yo Guy Gardner, Imma let you finish, but Tales of Ba Sing Se was awesome and you need to watch that."


----------



## Stunna (Oct 1, 2011)

_Tales of Ba Sing Se_ is in my top five favorite episodes.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 1, 2011)

Black Titan said:


> Eh, was more prototype stuff IMO like Alex covers himself in armor.



I'm mainly referring to Toph crawling up the ceilings as they attacked her when I mention Spider Man.




Oman said:


> I will say that she is given some depth about her relationship with her parents in the episode "The Runaway" (an underrated episode of Avatar, IMO).



I love that episode, actually. Great twist and set-up.

But I don't know how much I appreciate the way they just handled the parents off-screen with the letter Toph sent to them. It was like even they (the writers) knew the whole relationship was trite and didn't bother wasting time on a resolution face-to-face.


----------



## Akimichi Juro (Oct 1, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> He says that Western animation has no romance or drama. Archie's weird Mysteries, Sabrina the Animated Series had romance, Princess Guinivere and the Jewel Riders had romance.



This is why I can't take your posts seriously.  All your examples are piss-poor comparisons that require so much reaching and altering definitions to suit your needs.  You might as well say Hey Arnold is a romance series because Helga likes Arnold.  Compared to an actual romance anime, you know, the thousands that exist, like Nana or Absolute Boyfriend or something, where romance is the key theme and story of the series? No.. it doesn't even compare at all.  A silly show for kids like Sabrina where it resets everything each episode isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath as romance anime.  You're picking a comedy show with a recurring joke/theme of one character crushing on another character.  It's like picking Spongebob as a romance because one episode has Mrs. Puff and Mr. Krabs in love.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 1, 2011)

Refresh my memory, please: did Toph ever become able to bend metal from a distance, or did she always need to be physically in contact with it?


----------



## Stunna (Oct 1, 2011)

I don't remember her ever bending metal from a distance.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 1, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Refresh my memory, please: did Toph ever become able to bend metal from a distance, or did she always need to be physically in contact with it?



Physically in contact. Never saw her do it from a distance.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 1, 2011)

I don't recall seeing her bend metal from a distance either. For a moment I was going to say yes, but then I remembered it was 'space rock' she did that with.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> _Tales of Ba Sing Se_ is in my top five favorite episodes.



Same here really, the Ba Sing Se episodes are among my favorites in general , but Tales is definitly up there.


----------



## Bender (Oct 1, 2011)

The episode when Jet is brainwashed and fights Aang is my favorite.


The way he threw his hook sword at Long Feng after snapping out of made me squeal inside like a rabid fangirl. pek pek

It's a damn shame he died. I was so hoping that his blade would pierce him through the chest (although lol no I know wouldn't happen. Kids show lol). 

Btw anyone else besides me heard Smellerbee's voice on Onimusha Dawn of Dreams before Avatar the last airbender or that show Fanboy and chum chum(forget the name of it).


----------



## Furious George (Oct 1, 2011)

_The Ember Island Players_ is the best and if you say otherwise you don't know anything.  

It pounded hard against the 4th wall, the writers managing to make fun of themselves, their fanbase and bad play adaptations all at once. 

Plus, I could really relate to Aang trying to kiss Katara to clear up her confusion. I think any guy who survived Junior High can get contact embarrassment from that scene. 

Hate to say it but that won't be the last time you miss the point with women, Aang.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 1, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Plus, I could really relate to Aang trying to kiss Katara to clear up her confusion. I think any guy who survived Junior High can get contact embarrassment from that scene.


I don't get it.

/foreveralone


----------



## Furious George (Oct 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> /foreveralone


----------



## Stunna (Oct 1, 2011)

Oh wait, I _have_ seen Toph metal bend from a distance.

Watch the scene in _Into the Inferno pt.3_ where Toph breaks into the pilot's room. She bends the ventilation shaft and uses it to pin a soldier to the wall without touching it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Oh wait, I _have_ seen Toph metal bend from a distance.
> 
> Watch the scene in _Into the Inferno pt.3_ where Toph breaks into the pilot's room. She bends the ventilation shaft and uses it to pin a soldier to the wall without touching it.



Isn't her feet touching the ground allowing her to bend the metal around her though?


----------



## Stunna (Oct 1, 2011)

Well her feet are on the ground when she earthbends.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Well her feet are on the ground when she earthbends.



Hasn't she bent earth while not on the ground...? If she couldn't be able to do that, she wouldn't have thought she could bend her way out of the prison with her space rock bracelet, right?

I think the question was asking if she's bent metal standing on something that isn't metal from a distance...?


----------



## Stunna (Oct 1, 2011)

Just finished watching the four-part series finale with two of my best friends, one of which was in the process of watching the whole show at my insistence. Now it's his favorite cartoon.

Feels good. Feels good.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 1, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Just finished watching the four-part series finale with two of my best friends, one of which was in the process of watching the whole show at my insistence. Now it's his favorite cartoon.
> 
> Feels good. Feels good.



You should tell your friends to join the forum just to talk in this thread. That way, we'd have more fans to talk with. pek


----------



## Wan (Oct 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Isn't her feet touching the ground allowing her to bend the metal around her though?



Actually not quite, she does a flip kick to metalbend disconnects her from the ground.  Also, in the comic "The Bridge" between books 2 and 3 Toph wraps some Fire Nation soldiers in a metal beam from a distance.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 1, 2011)

Oman said:


> Actually not quite, she does a flip kick to metalbend disconnects her from the ground.  Also, in the comic "The Bridge" between books 2 and 3 Toph wraps some Fire Nation soldiers in a metal beam from a distance.



She, well, um, "told" the metal to bend before she did the flip though, so it doesn't count. 

Well...I haven't read the comics.


----------



## Wan (Oct 1, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> She, well, um, "told" the metal to bend before she did the flip though, so it doesn't count.
> 
> Well...I haven't read the comics.



Pick up "The Lost Adventures" then Terra!  You won't regret it. :33


----------



## Burke (Oct 2, 2011)

So many set changes, feels like a different thread 

Here, this will make everyone feel better, watch this again...
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmsT63BgFPw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Stunna (Oct 2, 2011)

I watched that just last night. :33


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 2, 2011)

To continue Black Titan and Furious George's conversation from earlier, one of my favorite episodes in the series was _Zuko Alone,_ as it focused completely on Zuko, my favorite character. I liked how it gave great insight into his past, revealing how he developed into the person who he was in the present story and his motivations for acting as he did. It also was the only episode of the series in which Aang and his friends neither appeared nor were mentioned, which was rather unusual, in my mind.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 2, 2011)

Also in my top five.


----------



## The Imp (Oct 2, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> So many set changes, feels like a different thread
> 
> Here, this will make everyone feel better, watch this again...
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmsT63BgFPw[/YOUTUBE]



that soundrack 

It's honestly one of the things I'm looking most forward to.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 2, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> So many set changes, feels like a different thread
> 
> Here, this will make everyone feel better, watch this again...
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmsT63BgFPw[/YOUTUBE]



Sorry, I had to change to Motoko for a really sad reason.  Also, I was letting another Toph fan use my set for a while 

Actually, that did make me feel better (really bad two days). 
I love how the music makes my heart race in anticipation. pek


Korra will be epic.


----------



## Burke (Oct 2, 2011)

glad i could help


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 2, 2011)

Tales is easily one of the best episodes of Avatar. And how amusing that it is told in short story form. Really though, the entire second season of Avtar was just great. It introduced Toph, Azula took over as the Big Bad, and it had some of the best episodes of the show that weren't finales.





Akimichi Juro said:


> This is why I can't take your posts seriously.  All your examples are piss-poor comparisons that require so much reaching and altering definitions to suit your needs.  You might as well say Hey Arnold is a romance series because Helga likes Arnold.  Compared to an actual romance anime, you know, the thousands that exist, like Nana or Absolute Boyfriend or something, where romance is the key theme and story of the series? No.. it doesn't even compare at all.  A silly show for kids like Sabrina where it resets everything each episode isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath as romance anime.  You're picking a comedy show with a recurring joke/theme of one character crushing on another character.  It's like picking Spongebob as a romance because one episode has Mrs. Puff and Mr. Krabs in love.


The irony and hypocrisy  in this post is so amusing.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 2, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Tales is easily one of the best episodes of Avatar. And how amusing that it is told in short story form. Really though, the entire second season of Avtar was just great.* It introduced Toph, Azula took over as the Big Bad, and it had some of the best episodes of the show that weren't finales.The irony and hypocrisy  in this post is so amusing. *



*agrees*

Definitely. Though I probably change my favorites at least once every three-four months.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 2, 2011)

As best as I can think (*not including the 4-part series finale*): 

1). The Ember Island Players 
2). Zuko Alone 
3). The Deserter 
4). The Crossroads of Destiny. 
5). Tales of Ba Sing Sei 

#3 is the episode with that awesome outlaw Fire Bender teaching Aang and #4 is the season finale of Book Two. 

But Like Terra said, its hard to maintain favorites in a show like this. Already I'm feeling like I missed something.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 6, 2011)

Furious George said:


> As best as I can think (*not including the 4-part series finale*):
> 
> 1). The Ember Island Players
> 2). Zuko Alone
> ...



I can't believe I forgot about this thread again. 

I think my favorites pretty much state consistent, mostly, with Book 2. It introduced my favorite character, had amazing episodes, great battle scenes, hilarious jokes and an awesome season finale.


----------



## Heloves (Oct 6, 2011)

Avatar copied Dragon ball 

I joke ........ I miss Toph and Uncle


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 6, 2011)

Heloves said:


> Avatar copied Dragon ball
> 
> I joke ........ I miss Toph and Uncle



I think everything eventually was inspired in some way by Dragon Ball. 

I miss Toph and Iroh too.  I guess Aang's son will have to fulfill the Iroh slot somehow, though I doubt it will be as good.


----------



## Heloves (Oct 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I think everything eventually was inspired in some way by Dragon Ball.
> 
> I miss Toph and Iroh too.  I guess Aang's son will have to fulfill the Iroh slot somehow, though I doubt it will be as good.



I feel Avatar has a lot to offer that was original....

the ability to create a big world is one of it's biggest strengths 

the characters all felt different 

No one can replace fun Uncle 

or badass Toph


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 6, 2011)

Heloves said:


> I feel Avatar has a lot to offer that was original....
> 
> the ability to create a big world is one of it's biggest strengths
> 
> ...



Of course not! 

But they can still have close seconds who will be pretty badass. I guess Korra will be the Toph character, Tenzin will be the Uncle role and Bolin and pretty boy will be Sokka and Katara.


----------



## Wan (Oct 6, 2011)

Heloves said:


> Avatar copied Dragon ball
> 
> I joke ........ I miss Toph and Uncle



Actually, Dragonball Evolution had airbending in it. 

I believe that Legend of Korra could very well surpass the original show.  At the very least, since Mike & Bryan are experience with the whole thing now the beginning won't be bogged down with episodes on the mediocre level of "Warriors of Kyoshi" or "Imprisoned".  (AND NO GREAT DIVIDE)


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 6, 2011)

I personally don't need Legend Of Korra to surpass the original series. I'm looking to be entertained so all it has to be is a solid 21 minutes of good animated television for however many episodes Nickelodeon decides the team can handle doing. It would be baffling if Korra couldn't achieve that with the great crew that's been assembled. Well, like any good show everything will depend on the writing so my fingers are definitely crossed for that. It's going to be one of the best looking shows of 2012 (2013?) of this I have no doubt.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 6, 2011)

I don't need it surpassing Avatar: The Last Airbender either, but for some strange I think it will. :sweat

I won't mind either way though, I'll be drooling over the beautiful animation and soundtrack.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 6, 2011)

I noticed that several characters who usually wore their hair tied back were seen at least once with it untied, including Katara, Toph, Sokka, and Azula, but Ty Lee was never shown with her hair down. Does anyone here wish that she had at least once removed her hair from its usual braid?

I noticed that none of the Kyoshi warriors were benders; would they allow a bender among their ranks, or do they prefer to use "normal" methods of fighting?

Having mentioned the Kyoshi warriors, of whom Suki, who married Sokka, is a member, which of the three canonical couples at the end of the series (Aang/Katara, Sokka/Suki, Zuko/Mai) would produce the most powerful offspring? Aang and Katara are both benders, so any child of theirs could be a bender, as seen with Tenzin, but there is no guarantee that their child would be a bender, as seen with Piandao, whose parents were both firebenders, according to the _Avatar Wiki_ website.

Neither Sokka and Suki were benders, but both were very skilled melee fighters, so could pass that skill to any children of theirs, plus Sokka is very clever and has waterbenders in his family, so he could teach his child to think as creatively as he does and may possibly sire a child with the capacity to bend water.

Both Zuko and Mai and very skilled melee fighters, plus Zuko would have the chance of siring a child with the ability to bend fire, as well.

What does everyone else say? Which of these couples could produce the offspring with the greatest potential? I await your responses.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I noticed that none of the Kyoshi warriors were benders; would they allow a bender among their ranks, or do they prefer to use "normal" methods of fighting?



You know, I don't know. 

I don't think they wouldn't stop a bender from joining if they showed potential and wanted them in, but nothing in the show supports me. 

But I'll just go ahead with thinking that they would allow them, but on rare occasions. 



DemonDragonJ said:


> What does everyone else say? Which of these couples could produce the offspring with the greatest potential? I await your responses.



Out of benders, probably Aang's kids. But, if Sokka and Suki are married (I don't remember reading anything about this...?), probably their kid over all. I always thought its how you fight and how you think that makes you great, not your power *sorta like Shikamaru -- sorry for Naruto comparison lol*.

**


----------



## Canute87 (Oct 6, 2011)

Has thing thing started to air yet?


----------



## Furious George (Oct 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Having mentioned the Kyoshi warriors, of whom Suki, who married Sokka, is a member, which of the three canonical couples at the end of the series (Aang/Katara, Sokka/Suki, Zuko/Mai) would produce the most powerful offspring? Aang and Katara are both benders, so any child of theirs could be a bender, as seen with Tenzin, but there is no guarantee that their child would be a bender, as seen with Piandao, whose parents were both firebenders, according to the _Avatar Wiki_ website.
> 
> Neither Sokka and Suki were benders, but both were very skilled melee fighters, so could pass that skill to any children of theirs, plus Sokka is very clever and has waterbenders in his family, so he could teach his child to think as creatively as he does and may possibly sire a child with the capacity to bend water.
> 
> ...



I love that you called them offspring rather then just children.  

Anyway, I think that with Zuko and Mai the child would have the *hightest *probability of being a beast. Even if he isn't born a bender from his dad's side he still has a mother who has shown to be proficient with weapons/melee combat on the level of a Kyoshi warrior if not higher. 

Aang and Katara would birth a monster assuming its a bender but like you said that is no guarantee.



Canute87 said:


> Has thing thing started to air yet?



Mid 2012.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 6, 2011)

Canute87 said:


> Has thing thing started to air yet?



Nope, not yet. There are rumors it was delayed until 2013 too. 

@Furious George:
What's wrong with the "offspring" term?


----------



## Furious George (Oct 6, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @Furious George:
> What's wrong with the "offspring" term?



Nothing wrong with it... its just that when talking about human beings its usually more expected to refer to them as children then a word that brings to mind images of test tubes and wild animals. Its a funny word to use here.


----------



## Wan (Oct 6, 2011)

Congratulations!  You just met DemonDragonJ. 

I have a feeling that being in the line of the Fire Lord automatically means you're a rather talented firebender.  Or possibly it's common enough that it would be shameful to be in the royal line and not be a Firebender.  However, considering that Zuko doesn't have a lot of raw firebending talent -- he earned his skill -- and that Mai isn't a firebender at all, they may very well produce a non-firebender heir.  Wonder how that might shake things up.


----------



## masamune1 (Oct 6, 2011)

Zuko has plenty of skill; its just not on-par with the rest of his family. He's still better than most, like Zhao and others. His main handicap is just that he had poor control of his emotions, and emotions and passion are pretty much the source of Fire Bending.


----------



## Wan (Oct 6, 2011)

Exactly: _it's not on par with the rest of his family._  Ozai, Azula, Iroh, and ostensibly Azulon and Sozin?  All prodigy firebenders.  Zuko?  Just a firebender -- a really hard-working one with a really good teacher, but just a firebender.  Combined with Mai, that could very well reduce the chance of producing a firebender heir.  Or maybe not.  It's up to Mike and Bryan, of course.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> Congratulations!  You just met DemonDragonJ.



Yes, I do prefer to use formal language whenever doing so is feasible, and this specific case, "offspring" was a more scientific and neutral term than "children."



Oman said:


> I have a feeling that being in the line of the Fire Lord automatically means you're a rather talented firebender.  Or possibly it's common enough that it would be shameful to be in the royal line and not be a Firebender.  However, considering that Zuko doesn't have a lot of raw firebending talent -- he earned his skill -- and that Mai isn't a firebender at all, they may very well produce a non-firebender heir.  Wonder how that might shake things up.



That would be very interesting, but Zuko and Mai are both very open-midned and tolerant, so I do not imagine that they would disown a child of theirs who was not able to bend fire.



Oman said:


> Exactly: _it's not on par with the rest of his family._  Ozai, Azula, Iroh, and ostensibly Azulon and Sozin?  All prodigy firebenders.  Zuko?  Just a firebender -- a really hard-working one with a really good teacher, but just a firebender.  Combined with Mai, that could very well reduce the chance of producing a firebender heir.  Or maybe not.  It's up to Mike and Bryan, of course.



Remember that both of Piandao's parents were firebenders, according the the _Avatar Wiki_ site, so whether or not a parent is a bender apparently has little influence on whether or not their child shall be a bender.


----------



## Wan (Oct 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That would be very interesting, but Zuko and Mai are both very open-midned and tolerant, so I do not imagine that they would disown a child of theirs who was not able to bend fire.



I can imagine Zuko being all angsty over it only to completely accept it later, while Mai's just like, "I don't care, he/she's my child," since she isn't a bender herself.  Where problems could really arise is in the royal court and the general populace.  The more tradition-focused Fire Nation citizens would dislike it.



> Remember that both of Piandao's parents were firebenders, according the the _Avatar Wiki_ site, so whether or not a parent is a bender apparently has little influence on whether or not their child shall be a bender.



Actually that somewhat reinforces my point.  Piandao not being a bender was shameful to his parents, who were both benders.  I'd say that indicates benders give birth to more benders more often than not.

I expect this whole issue to be touched on in Legend of Korra, with the whole Equalist anti-bender movement.


----------



## Burke (Oct 7, 2011)

watched 20 some episodes of avatar today.

book 1 ep 7 to book 2 ep 9


----------



## Glued (Oct 7, 2011)

If the avatar characters were pokemon, which pokemon would they be?

Toph: Geodude.
zuko" Magmar
Azula: Rotom
Aang: Arceus
Ozai: Dragonite
Katara: tentacruel


----------



## Gunners (Oct 7, 2011)

Oman said:


> Congratulations!  You just met DemonDragonJ.
> 
> I have a feeling that being in the line of the Fire Lord automatically means you're a rather talented firebender.  Or possibly it's common enough that it would be shameful to be in the royal line and not be a Firebender.  However, considering that Zuko doesn't have a lot of raw firebending talent -- he earned his skill -- and that Mai isn't a firebender at all, they may very well produce a non-firebender heir.  Wonder how that might shake things up.



The number of living fire benders better than him can be counted on one hand with the exception of his sister they have decades of experience on him. His raw fire bending talent is underrated, the moment he got over his emotional hang ups he significantly closed the gap between him and his sister.


----------



## Wan (Oct 7, 2011)

After the Boiling Rock, Azula's breakdown noticeably detracts from her firebending prowess -- Zuko explicitly points out that she's slipping, and it's even clear that her fighting style shifts (she uses fists to make fireblasts rather than her fingers).  So it's just as much that Azula dropped towards Zuko's level as it is that Zuko closed the gap.


----------



## Gunners (Oct 7, 2011)

Oman said:


> After the Boiling Rock, Azula's breakdown noticeably detracts from her firebending prowess -- Zuko explicitly points out that she's slipping, and it's even clear that her fighting style shifts (she uses fists to make fireblasts rather than her fingers).  So it's just as much that Azula dropped towards Zuko's level as it is that Zuko closed the gap.


I wasn't really speaking about their battle in the air or the final battle. By the boiling rock the distance had been closed significantly otherwise he would have been stomped along with Soka. 

Putting all of that aside it doesn't change my point that the number of living benders better than Zuko can be counted on one hand ( and he is 15). Hardly a 'regular' fire bender.


----------



## Wan (Oct 7, 2011)

In the Boiling Rock neither Zuko nor Azula did what they had been shown to do before.  I think they were both holding back, lest a careless blast blow _everyone_ off the gondola.

And sure, Zuko as he is -- thanks to lots of hard work and a really good teacher -- is a really good firebender.  As shown when he was younger though, he potential wasn't anything special.


----------



## Gunners (Oct 7, 2011)

Oman said:


> In the Boiling Rock neither Zuko nor Azula did what they had been shown to do before.  I think they were both holding back, lest a careless blast blow _everyone_ off the gondola.
> 
> And sure, Zuko as he is -- thanks to lots of hard work and a really good teacher -- is a really good firebender.  As shown when he was younger though, he potential wasn't anything special.



People peak at different ages. As I have said before his emotional hang ups acted held back his growth. It's pointless bringing up teachers and how hard they work. Azula was shown to work pretty hard, showing frustration when she practiced firing lightning because her hair became off balanced. 

As royalty Ozai, Azulon, Azula would have access to good tutors as well, unless you think they all learned how to fire lightning without any tutelage.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 7, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> If the avatar characters were pokemon, which pokemon would they be?
> 
> Toph: Geodude.
> zuko" Magmar
> ...



 @ Geodude.

*Toph:* Cranidos/Sudowoodo
*Aang:* Dragonite 
*Katara:* Dewgong
*Sokka:* Magikarp!  Nah, I think Feraligatr
*Zuko:* Blaziken
*Azula:* Raichu/Arcanine
*Iroh:* Snorlax


----------



## masamune1 (Oct 7, 2011)

Oman said:


> Exactly: _it's not on par with the rest of his family._  Ozai, Azula, Iroh, and ostensibly Azulon and Sozin?  All prodigy firebenders.  Zuko?  Just a firebender -- a really hard-working one with a really good teacher, but just a firebender.  Combined with Mai, that could very well reduce the chance of producing a firebender heir.  Or maybe not.  It's up to Mike and Bryan, of course.



Not being on-par with his fire bending family does not make him "just a Fire Bender"; especially since he's only about 15 and we don't know how good the rest of his family (bar Azula) were when they were young (I don't recall anyone but Azula being a prodidy, either). Zuko might not be as good as the rest of them but he's as good or better than pretty much everybody else- even Jong Jong didn't display anything he couldn't, and he's a grandmaster.  

Zuko isn't anywhere near his prime, and he was able to hang in there with the best Benders in the world. He is easily capable of ending up as strong or stronger than any other member of his family. You are underestimating him.


----------



## Wan (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh, Jeong Jeong was better than Zuko.  Huge wall of fire, without the comet?  Even bigger walls of fire during the comet while levitating with firebending?  That's above Zuko's level.

I would say that Ozai's embarassment with Zuko when he tried demonstrating his firebending to Azulon indicated that Ozai thought his son beneath him -- of course, it could be the exact opposite; Ozai might see too much of _himself_ in Zuko as the weaker of two siblings.  But that's just speculation.  Ozai also described Azulon as a prodigy when comparing Azula to him, but that may have just been to try to get on Azulon's good side.  Lastly, Sozin does have the honor of displaying the largest non-comet, non-Avatar feat of firebending, when he tried to take out Roku.

My point is not to downplay Zuko specifically.  My point is that, ostensibly, the Fire Nation royal family and the lineage of Fire Lords has been composed entirely of firebenders, and strong ones at that.  Zuko not being on the natural level of the rest of his family, and in all likelihood fathering a child with Mai, a non-bender, may very well introduce the possibility of that child not being a bender as well.  This could be looked down upon by the Fire Nation society.  But again, it's really just speculation, and up to Mike and Bryan as to whether they'll explore that possible issue.

Wild fan theory time! Amon is leading the anti-bender Equalist movement because he's Zuko & Mai's non-bender child in disguise and is trying to get back at the world for being mistreated, possibly even disowned by his father.  

No, no, Zuko would never disown a son of his, after what his own father put him through.


----------



## Burke (Oct 8, 2011)

Oman said:


> Wild fan theory time! Amon is leading the anti-bender Equalist movement because he's Zuko & Mai's non-bender child in disguise and is trying to get back at the world for being mistreated, possibly even disowned by his father.
> 
> No, no, Zuko would never disown a son of his, after what his own father put him through.



Nonono, thats good!

But more like he ran off due to his not having bending.
He was tired of his siblings/ other benders showing him up.
How is it possible that they show up the son of the fire lord!?
He will show them all that the powers of united non benders are superior!


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 8, 2011)

Oman said:


> Wild fan theory time! Amon is leading the anti-bender Equalist movement because he's Zuko & Mai's non-bender child in disguise and is trying to get back at the world for being mistreated, possibly even disowned by his father.
> 
> No, no, Zuko would never disown a son of his, after what his own father put him through.



That would be really weird if this turned out to be the plot! I'd +rep you for a year.


----------



## Jena (Oct 8, 2011)

Oman said:


> Wild fan theory time! Amon is leading the anti-bender Equalist movement because he's Zuko & Mai's non-bender child in disguise and is trying to get back at the world for being mistreated, possibly even disowned by his father.


----------



## Wan (Oct 8, 2011)

Dante Basco has said he's voicing someone who's connected to Zuko...maybe Dante's voicing Amon and that's the connection.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 8, 2011)

Oman said:


> Dante Basco has said he's voicing someone who's connected to Zuko...maybe Dante's voicing Amon and that's the connection.



He could mean through friendship too, or rivalry.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 8, 2011)




----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 8, 2011)

I want Fire, Wang Fire and Its the Quenchiest! pek

And Foo Foo Cuddly poops. xD


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 8, 2011)

Did you make those yourself, or did you find them, somewhere? I know that most of those buttons are references to the series, but what about the two in the bottom-right of the image? Are those references to the series? I do not recall any such lines having been spoken in the series.



Oman said:


> Wild fan theory time! Amon is leading the anti-bender Equalist movement because he's Zuko & Mai's non-bender child in disguise and is trying to get back at the world for being mistreated, possibly even disowned by his father.
> 
> No, no, Zuko would never disown a son of his, after what his own father put him through.



I agree that such a theory is very far-fetched, but it is still an interesting idea; I definitely would not mind such a twist in the story.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 8, 2011)

Yea, the last two bottom right are references to the show. The bird one is when Sokka says the birds are "enemy birds" in the Fire Nation and Foo Foo Cuddly Poops is what Sokka calls the little meat thing he was going to eat. Its when Toph was teaching Aang to earthbend and he got stuck in the ground.

I believe.


----------



## Burke (Oct 8, 2011)

**


----------



## Wan (Oct 8, 2011)

Hang on...Amon could in a way be taking up the legacy of his father's Blue Spirit, since both have ominous masks.

It keeps making more and more _sense._


----------



## Glued (Oct 9, 2011)

Amon is Darth Vader.

Seriously though, I'm betting he's Ozai.


----------



## Noah (Oct 9, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Amon is Darth Vader.
> 
> Seriously though, I'm betting he's Ozai.



I kinda like the idea of Ozai being the villain turning into a running joke. "Of course he's behind everything! He's been the villain for the last 7 Avatars!"

It'd be like Dr. Wily all over again.


----------



## Burke (Oct 12, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJafRYJHec0[/YOUTUBE]

Listening to this and drawing an OC, what more can i ask for.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 13, 2011)

Noah said:


> I kinda like the idea of Ozai being the villain turning into a running joke. "Of course he's behind everything! He's been the villain for the last 7 Avatars!"
> 
> It'd be like Dr. Wily all over again.



I sincerely hope that that is not true, as that would greatly undermine how serious and threatening a villain Ozai was in the previous series.


----------



## Jena (Oct 13, 2011)

Noah said:


> I kinda like the idea of Ozai being the villain turning into a running joke. "Of course he's behind everything! He's been the villain for the last 7 Avatars!"
> 
> It'd be like Dr. Wily all over again.






Actually, this would be hilarious.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 13, 2011)

Amon better be a good villain. Because if he's not evil enough to kill his own son or something like that, he's not really a villain.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 13, 2011)

Amon is going to be a subtle, ominous villain.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 13, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Amon is going to be a subtle, ominous villain.



Yes, I would like that, as it would remind me of Emperor Palpatine from the _Star Wars_ franchise, who is one my my favorite fictional villains ever.


----------



## Shade (Oct 14, 2011)

^ Yeah, because this guy just screams subtlety:


----------



## Stunna (Oct 14, 2011)

Disregard the prequels.


----------



## Gunners (Oct 14, 2011)

Shade said:


> ^ Yeah, because this guy just screams subtlety:



He didn't always look like that. DDJ is right.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 14, 2011)

Palpatene was "subtle" in thesame way Aizen was.  He was given a copy of the story in advance so that he could make his plans retroactively.  Don't get me wrong, I like Palpy, but only because he's the only character in the prequals that even shows any sort of emotion, but his plans make no sense whatsoever and he only gets away with what he does because everyone else, including Yoda, acts dumber than rocks.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 14, 2011)

Stab's got a point. Palpatine's plot would've fallen to pieces rather quickly if the characters weren't retarded. That's still prequels though.


----------



## masamune1 (Oct 14, 2011)

Palpatine's plan was brilliant. The other characters weren't retarded; they just weren't able to pin anything on him, and (as far as the EU goes, anyway) they thought that someone close to him might be the Sith Lord but disregarded Palp himself. They certainly didn't trust him and recognised that he was accumulating too much power, but the Jedi aren't the law and given the wartime situation, he was able to gather a lot of support. And lets face it, Bush being behind 9/11 sounds more credible than saying the Supreme Chancellor was behind both sides of a massive civil war and had masterminded a plot for galactic domination for the last Xty decades.


----------



## Burke (Oct 14, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Palpatine's plan was brilliant. The other characters weren't retarded; they just weren't able to pin anything on him, and (as far as the EU goes, anyway) they thought that someone close to him might be the Sith Lord but disregarded Palp himself. They certainly didn't trust him and recognised that he was accumulating too much power, but the Jedi aren't the law and given the wartime situation, he was able to gather a lot of support. And lets face it, Bush being behind 9/11 sounds more credible than saying the Supreme Chancellor was behind both sides of a massive civil war and had masterminded a plot for galactic domination for the last Xty decades.



seconded  .


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm on my phone, so I can't do it, but someone really needs to link to he Plinkett reviews so you can have it explained to you in intimate  detail how terribly wrong you are.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 14, 2011)

Red Letter Media can go suck on the hugest reproductive organ there is. 
Unfunny wastes of time.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 14, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> I'm on my phone, so I can't do it, but someone really needs to link to he Plinkett reviews so you can have it explained to you in intimate  detail how terribly wrong you are.



Pretty much. 





Superstarseven said:


> Red Letter Media can go suck on the hugest reproductive organ there is.
> Unfunny wastes of time.



Yeah, I'm pretty sure you just don't have a sense of humor.


----------



## Burke (Oct 14, 2011)

Rage over canonical works used to be funny, but after several years, the butthurt is getting annoying.

Id like to get back to avatar before it gets to anywhere else.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 14, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> *Rage over canonical works used to be funny, but after several years, the butthurt is getting annoying.*
> 
> Id like to get back to avatar before it gets to anywhere else.



After *you're* done making a backhanded comment on the subject we should all get back on-topic? I love how that works. 

I do wonder what Legend of Korra would be like if ol' derpy Lucas somehow took over the writing...


----------



## masamune1 (Oct 14, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Pretty much.



Videos in the links don't work.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 14, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Videos in the links don't work.



They work fine for me....


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 14, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Red Letter Media can go suck on the hugest reproductive organ there is.
> Unfunny wastes of time.



While the humor may not be your cup of tea, its hard to deny that his analysis of the plot holes and complete lack of logic by pretty much any and every character is pretty much spot on.

Seriously, just watch a bit of this from about 2:40 on.  Then I promise to shut up and we can get back to Avatar.


----------



## masamune1 (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm sorry, I'm about 8 minutes in, and I've already heard far too much crap.

This reviewer, whose voice is way too annoying to listen to (I see you wanted to torture me), obviously hasn't got much familiarity with history, with how dictatorships are set up, how any sense of normalcy and sanity goes out the window during a major civil war (especially one that comes after a thousand years of peace). The Jedi were a shadow of their former selves, and the war was started by one of their own, not to mention after a thousand years they had let such a war happen. All three films had stressed that the Republic had become corrupt and impotent by this point, which allowed a bunch of trading organizations to amass a giant military force in the first place.

Yoda knew that something was up with Anakin, but there were a bunch of other things on his mind, like war and other trivial stuff. And he'd never seen Anakin and Padme together. Grevious obeying without question is a personality quirk, and as for the "what ifs" like "what if Grevious had survived the assassination attempt", that's just something he'd have to work around, not that Grevious would suspect Palpatine of being behind such an attempt. These aren't plot holes except by the flimsiest definition of the term.

Nothing there says to me that Palpatine wasn't an evil genius, who had a marvelous evil plan.

*EDIT-* Aizen's plotting was also pretty ace.


----------



## Jena (Oct 14, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> This reviewer, whose voice is way too annoying to listen to (I see you wanted to torture me)...



I really don't want to get dragged into Star Wars debate here, so I'm going to ignore your other points, but he does do that voice on purpose for comedic effect.

That probably doesn't change how irritating it is, but....just so you know...


----------



## Burke (Oct 14, 2011)

Gabe newell on narration? ( ?Д`)ﾊｧﾊｧ


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 14, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure you just don't have a sense of humor.



My Louis CK albums would seem to disagree.

I just don't find unfunny garbage...funny. Big difference.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 14, 2011)

Furious George said:


> I do wonder what Legend of Korra would be like if ol' derpy Lucas somehow took over the writing...



As much as I love Star Wars, I don't think I'd like Korra if he wrote it.

*Lucas:* I don't know, therefore aliens.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 15, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> My Louis CK albums would seem to disagree.
> 
> I just don't find unfunny garbage...funny. Big difference.



Yeaaahh, I'm not going to go too far with this since its all ultimately opinions but I'll just say I found him hilarious and even fans of the horrid PT admit that its some of the funniest stuff they have ever seen. 

Its not so much about the prostitute killing stuff (which I also found funny) as it is his timing and emphasis on certain words and editing and other silly things like that.



Terra Branford said:


> As much as I love Star Wars, I don't think I'd like Korra if he wrote it.
> 
> *Lucas:* I don't know, therefore aliens.



Oh sir you're not having nearly enough fun with it! 

- Dragons and Spirits are actually giant clots of Ritochlopians and they, through osmosis and scientificalities, infected the founders of the village and made them Benders. 

- Drawn animation is evil now so all the locations will be in squeaky clean, sterile CGI in sharp contrast to the character models.

- Avatars have the most Ritochlopians of them all because prophecy said so. 

- Toph had too much of a dark streak, Lucas felt, so in his 3rd cut of the Last Airbender the steel door hits her first.

- NOOOOOO!!!!

- Lucas wants Legend of Korra to be a darker tale so Korra won't be so much fun-loving and adventurous as she is inexplicably whiny and totally unlikable. 

- Korra will have a monotonous romance with the senator of Taboo because that's forbidden because senators can't fall in love... apparently? 

- Killing younglings! *covers mouth in mock horror* 

- Contrary to what the original series implied, Hoppa is actually a cloned Air Bison and Aang oversaw the cloning process when he was 3.


----------



## Glued (Oct 15, 2011)

I wonder what new foods they will have to eat in Korra.

Cabbages, tea, turtleduck.

I love food, food is so delicious


----------



## Wan (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm thinking a hogmonkey would be tasty.


----------



## Koi (Oct 16, 2011)

Food IS delicious.  And oh my god, it never even crossed my mind that some people probably EAT turtleduck.  Poor bebehs. 8C


----------



## Koi (Oct 16, 2011)

Ahahaha.


----------



## Jena (Oct 16, 2011)

Koi said:


> Ahahaha.



    .


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 17, 2011)

Koi said:


> Ahahaha.



That is very hilarious, I must admit; I shall definitely give you +rep for it.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 17, 2011)

I wonder what made him think of it now, of all times.


----------



## Quaero (Oct 18, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> I wonder what made him think of it now, of all times.



I heard there was an Avatar marathon somewhere recently. 

I'm guessing he watched it.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 18, 2011)

If there's ever an Avatar marathon, it'll be on Nicktoons.
So am I supposed to know who the artist of that piece is?


----------



## Shade (Oct 18, 2011)

^ Are you talking about the xkcd comic? That's Randall Monroe's work. But there's no way you're on the Internet without having heard about xkcd, so what artist are you talking about?


----------



## Wan (Oct 19, 2011)

Shade said:


> ^ Are you talking about the xkcd comic? That's Randall Monroe's work. *But there's no way you're on the Internet without having heard about xkcd,* so what artist are you talking about?


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 19, 2011)

You just found your first guy.

How the hell are ya?


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 19, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Oh sir you're not having nearly enough fun with it!
> 
> - Dragons and Spirits are actually giant clots of Ritochlopians and they, through osmosis and scientificalities, infected the founders of the village and made them Benders.
> 
> ...




Poor Lucas. 

I wonder...had it been Lucas who made the Avatar movie, would it be the same, worse, good by a different story? 

*also...girl. *


----------



## Wan (Oct 19, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Poor Lucas.
> 
> I wonder...had it been Lucas who made the Avatar movie, would it be the same, worse, good by a different story?



That's a very good question.  The overreliance on special effects and green screens wouldn't get better; if anything Lucas would make the movie more artificial.  To his credit Shyamalan did film part of the movie in Greenland -- modern Lucas wouldn't have any of that.  Cinematography and editing probably would improve.  Fight scenes would be marginally better.  Writing still wouldn't be any good, but maybe Lucas could avoid some of the absolute turds that Shyamalan plopped out.  Zuko would be whiny and lose what little sympathy he had left in Shyamalan's movie.  Lucas probably wouldn't change things like name pronunciations and the nature of firebending because he wouldn't have Shyamalan's motivation to do so, but he wouldn't respect the sequence of the plot like Shyamalan did, so it would be more inaccurate plotwise to the series.


----------



## quizmasterG (Oct 19, 2011)

avatar is one of those rare american cartoons i watch, even though it was animated in korea


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## Wan (Oct 19, 2011)

Just about everything's animated in Korea now.


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## Superstarseven (Oct 19, 2011)

I would say that the percentage of animated cartoons that are outsourced to Korea is somewhere in the 90's. India is getting in on the racket also -

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ_Dk8e2XLk[/YOUTUBE]
I'm not sure when that video first aired but the animators are using lightboxes instead of graphic tablets. I would imagine they've upgraded since then.

When it comes to America, I believe that the only shows that are done in-house are Flash and CGI animated series.


----------



## Quaero (Oct 21, 2011)

On slightly Avatar related news, Chris Metzen (Main Warcraft writer) is a big fan of the show. 



> We powered through Avatar: The Last Airbender, and I swear to you, I haven’t had this much fun with an idea [in ages]. Their world-building and the humanity of those characters and the themes the creators fearlessly chased… I don’t know how they got it made. With this cynical world we live in and the way children usually develop in terms of TV, usually it’s just a marketing ploy. But these guys created something that was just a poem from start-to-finish. A love letter of story and character and family and love.
> 
> It was just overwhelming to me. It had me tearing up every other episode. And to be able to share that with my kids [was incredible]. And to look at how much I imprinted on GI Joe or Marvel or Transformers, the idea that my eight-year-old daughter’s imprinting on Airbender? There’s so much more depth than anything I was chasing as a kid. It staggers me to think about where her little imagination will be when that’s her base. It’s just got so much heart and conscience, but kicked ass too. Those final episodes were just ridiculous. Ridiculous! It was just a staggering piece of art.
> 
> ...


----------



## Wan (Oct 21, 2011)

^^Flameo, hotman.  

One cool thing about Avatar is that people who aren't normally animation fans love the show (case in point: my dad).


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 21, 2011)

I agree with everything that man said. As much time as I've devoted as a fan of Avatar, I do have to laugh at my previous assumption that it was a junky Japanese export. All it took was one day when I couldn't anything I liked on Television and everything changed.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 21, 2011)

Oman said:


> ^^Flameo, hotman.
> 
> *One cool thing about Avatar is that people who aren't normally animation fans love the show (case in point: my dad).*



Yea, that really is cool. Besides Dragon Ball/Z, its the second only animation show that my parents actually like. xD

I've only ever met 5 people who didn't like it, and that was because the ending ticked them off too much.


----------



## Jena (Oct 21, 2011)




----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 21, 2011)

Powerpuff Benders! pek


----------



## Burke (Oct 22, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Yea, that really is cool. Besides Dragon Ball/Z, its the second only animation show that my parents actually like. xD
> 
> I've only ever met 5 people who didn't like it, and that was because the ending ticked them off too much.



damn zutarians amirite


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 22, 2011)

I came across one person on Twitter who didn't like the Ozai and Aang fight because, I'm paraphrasing here, "It looked too much like something from DragonBall Z".

It's a criticism I haven't heard before or since.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 22, 2011)

It was the final battle. It was s'pose to be explosive.


----------



## Glued (Oct 22, 2011)

Ozai was weak.

Baddest man on the planet, the title belongs to Combustion Man.


----------



## Gunners (Oct 22, 2011)

Ozai was pretty powerful but he was never going to pose a problem to Aang in the Avatar state.


----------



## Wan (Oct 22, 2011)

As I've said before, Ozai's the only person who's lasted more than 5 seconds against Aang in the Avatar State.  He took multiple hits from Aang and a couple of times stood his ground to launch attacks that Aang actually bothered making an active defense against.  One could say that it was a foregone conclusion that Ozai would lose...but wasn't it already a foregone conclusion that Aang would win in the end?  The fight was cool regardless.

Complaining that the finale was like DBZ is...odd.  That complaint would only come from the kind of fan who cared more for the plot twists and character drama than the magic kung-fu fighting in the first place.  Firebenders being hugely overpowered during Sozin's Comet had been setup since early in book 1, so it's not like it was unexpected.

PS Ozai would fry Combustion Man with lightning.  El fin.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I came across one person on Twitter who didn't like the Ozai and Aang fight because, I'm paraphrasing here, "It looked too much like something from DragonBall Z".
> 
> It's a criticism I haven't heard before or since.



Not that I agree with the usage of Dragon Ball Z as a negative (well, depends on which season/sage/whatever they are talking about), but how so? I wonder what made that person think that. 



> damn zutarians amirite


Don't assume things!!11! 












You are right.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 22, 2011)

I personally couldn't stop comparing the fight between Ozai and Aang after he went into the Avatar State to the fight between Frieza and Goku after the latter unlocked Super Saiyan.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2011)

How so though? Goku's SS wasn't even enough to destroy Frieza until the very end after another power-courage-up thing.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 22, 2011)

Super Saiyan Goku was roflstomping Frieza until he powered up too.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 22, 2011)

No, he ran out of power and was getting stomped from what I recall.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 22, 2011)

You recall wrong.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 23, 2011)

Well SSJ Goku was outclassing 50% Frieza, and I think even at 100% Frieza couldnt dent Goku severely enough before he started losing power. 

Though the way Goku achieved SSJ was more satisfying than the way Aang reached AS.


----------



## Wan (Oct 23, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well SSJ Goku was outclassing 50% Frieza, and I think even at 100% Frieza couldnt dent Goku severely enough before he started losing power.
> 
> Though the way Goku achieved SSJ was more satisfying than the way Aang reached AS.



It only set the standard for shonen power-up scenes for decades afterwards. 

But let's see:
Goku's powerup was something new, unlike the Avatar State which Aang had done several times before.
Goku was hyped up as possibly being the "legendary super saiyan" loads of episodes before.  Aang was the Avatar from the getgo, so there wasn't much buildup.
DBZ plainly had more time to spend on sitting still watching characters power up rather than progressing the plot.

So really, it's not _that_ much alike.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 23, 2011)

Exactly.  We all knew Aang's Avatar state would > everything else simply for having the experience of previous Avatars alone.



> You recall wrong.


Don't kill me master.


----------



## Stunna (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm not calling Avatar a ripoff. Just saiyin' that it reminded me of DBZ.


----------



## Burke (Oct 23, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Ozai was weak.
> 
> Baddest man on the planet, the title belongs to Combustion Man.



Combustion man: "Ow, something small hit me directly in the source of my power for atleast the third time in my life. Oh well, im SURE it wont explode in my face the THIRD time!" 
-Famous last thoughts


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 23, 2011)

Oman said:


> It only set the standard for shonen power-up scenes for decades afterwards.



At that point in time it fit quite satisfyingly and has become one of the most iconic transformation scenes in animation. 

Whether that type of reasoning has become cliche in anime, fact is it still handled the transformation much better than Aang's one into the AS.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 23, 2011)

Are you guys trying to lure certain people out, because this is strong bait if you are.


Baddest Man on the Planet was settled in The Library. Professor Zei bravely remained in a sinking library to battle and conquer Knowledge. He wins.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 23, 2011)

DAMN YOU KNOWLEDGE!!!


----------



## Burke (Oct 23, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Are you guys trying to lure certain people out, because this is strong bait if you are.
> 
> 
> Baddest Man on the Planet was settled in The Library. Professor Zei bravely remained in a sinking library to battle and conquer Knowledge. He wins.



Id put him on hawky level


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## Stunna (Oct 23, 2011)

Nothing is on Hawky level, stfu.


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## Wan (Oct 23, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> At that point in time it fit quite satisfyingly and has become one of the most iconic transformation scenes in animation.
> 
> Whether that type of reasoning has become cliche in anime, fact is it still handled the transformation much better than Aang's one into the AS.



That's hardly a fact.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 23, 2011)

Oman said:


> That's hardly a fact.



There's nothing satisfying about some random, jutting piece of rock to bestow upon Aang powers he needs to save the day/world...


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 23, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> At that point in time it fit quite satisfyingly and has become one of the most iconic transformation scenes in animation.
> 
> Whether that type of reasoning has become cliche in anime, fact is it still handled the transformation much better than Aang's one into the AS.



Cool! Can you link me to the experimentation and peer reviewed articles done on that.  I live right across the street from Fermi Lab, and I do what I can to keep up on their extensive anime/cartoon research, but I wasn't that this had finally been deemed a proven fact.  Perhaps it was outsourced to the Cartoon Entertainment Research Network. 

Or as it's more commonly known, CERN.



Waking Dreamer said:


> There's nothing satisfying about some random, jutting piece of rock to bestow upon Aang powers he needs to save the day/world...



(see, we're actually making fun of you because you apparently don't know what a "fact" is. Don't worry, it's all in good fun.)


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 23, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Cool! Can you link me to the experimentation and peer reviewed articles done on that.  I live right across the street from Fermi Lab, and I do what I can to keep up on their extensive anime/cartoon research, but I wasn't that this had finally been deemed a proven fact.  Perhaps it was outsourced to the Cartoon Entertainment Research Network.
> 
> Or as it's more commonly known, CERN.



Goku SSJ transformation > Aang AS transformation in the final.

Do people what to debunk this idea?

And no ones made fun of me yet...

EDIT: And Im talking about the catalyst.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 23, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Goku SSJ transformation > Aang AS transformation in the final.
> 
> Do people what to debunk this idea?



No, because this conversation is stupid.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 23, 2011)

Well as long as no one has problems with what I said....


----------



## Glued (Oct 23, 2011)

Goku's transformation, have blond hair  and green eyes.

So many jokes and puns I can make from this


----------



## Wan (Oct 23, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Goku SSJ transformation > Aang AS transformation in the final.
> 
> Do people what to debunk this idea?
> 
> ...



There's nothing _to_ debunk, because it's a matter of opinion.  What you enjoyed so much out of Goku's transformation someone could turn around and say they hated and are glad wasn't in Aang's transformation.  Neither would be right or wrong, just a matter of opinion and taste.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 23, 2011)

Oman said:


> There's nothing _to_ debunk, because it's a matter of opinion.  What you enjoyed so much out of Goku's transformation someone could turn around and say they hated and are glad wasn't in Aang's transformation.  Neither would be right or wrong, just a matter of opinion and taste.



Well change "fact" to "consensus." Whatever. Same difference. 

I dont ever recall someone saying how epic it was for Aang to transform into AS because his back got slammed into a rock...

Thats what I was pointing out.


----------



## Glued (Oct 23, 2011)

Nah, but it was hilarious how Aang was about to stomp both the Sandbenders and that Crazy Earth King when they stole Appa or when they buried Katara in dirt.

One of the things about Avatar that bothered me was that there was no one equal to Aang. He's like Superman without the Kryptonite.

The world of Avatar needs a Doomsday, Mongul or Darkseid.


----------



## Wan (Oct 23, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well change "fact" to "consensus." Whatever. Same difference.



Not really.  But I get what you're trying to say.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 23, 2011)

Oman said:


> Not really.  But I get what you're trying to say.



Well its just semantics really, but no one has ever claimed the rock pressure point catalyst was a good part of the story, and Im assuming no one will try to defend it.


----------



## Glued (Oct 23, 2011)

Oman said:


> Not really.  But I get what you're trying to say.



*Oh man* I don't know what to say.

Get it Oman, Oh Man.


----------



## Wan (Oct 23, 2011)




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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 23, 2011)

I have been wondering this since I began to follow this series: why did the creators of the series choose to use the words "bend," "bender," and "bending" to describe the manipulation of the elements in this series? Is it similar to how a person manipulating another person is "bending" that other person to their will?

Also, does anyone here wonder if, in _The Legend of Korra,_ metalbending has been developed to the point where an earthbender can throw a piece of metal through the air and bend it into a shape that allows them restrain a person? The fact that there are "metalbending cops" in the new series certainly suggests so.

I was wondering something else: when _Avatar_ was translated into other languages, how well did names, titles, jokes, or cultural references fare in that process? Were they left unaltered, or did they need to be changed when the show was dubbed into other languages? Because changes are occasionally made when Japanese animation is translated into other languages, I imagine that similar changes may have been made to this western animated series, also.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> *also...girl. *



Probably should have known that. 



DemonDragonJ said:


> I have been wondering this since I began to follow this series: why did the creators of the series choose to use the words "bend," "bender," and "bending" to describe the manipulation of the elements in this series?* Is it similar to how a person manipulating another person is "bending" that other person to their will?*



I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it is.


----------



## Jena (Oct 23, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have been wondering this since I began to follow this series: why did the creators of the series choose to use the words "bend," "bender," and "bending" to describe the manipulation of the elements in this series? Is it similar to how a person manipulating another person is "bending" that other person to their will?


I think they might say why they called it bending in that massive art book, but I can't remember where. If I have time to flip through it again and I come across it I'll let you know.



> Also, does anyone here wonder if, in _The Legend of Korra,_ metalbending has been developed to the point where an earthbender can throw a piece of metal through the air and bend it into a shape that allows them restrain a person? The fact that there are "metalbending cops" in the new series certainly suggests so.


That would be interesting. 
I guess it depends on how far a bender can take metal bending. The last time we saw it Toph was only at the point of breaking out of metal containers and using metal defensively. Whether or not it can be bended fully like the other elements remains to be seen.



> I was wondering something else: when _Avatar_ was translated into other languages, how well did names, titles, jokes, or cultural references fare in that process? Were they left unaltered, or did they need to be changed when the show was dubbed into other languages? Because changes are occasionally made when Japanese animation is translated into other languages, I imagine that similar changes may have been made to this western animated series, also.


I think Avatar might be safer (in terms of cultural references) because it used less than most American TV shows/movies use.

I haven't seen much of it, but I've seen a few clips/an episode of the German dubbed version and I didn't notice any glaring changes. 



Aside from that, I don't really know. I haven't seen any clips from other languages.


----------



## Wan (Oct 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have been wondering this since I began to follow this series: why did the creators of the series choose to use the words "bend," "bender," and "bending" to describe the manipulation of the elements in this series? Is it similar to how a person manipulating another person is "bending" that other person to their will?



Let's see...*cracks open the art book*  One page has quite a bit on just how the idea of bending was originated and developed with Sifu Kisu, but it doesn't say what the name was.  My guess is Mike and Bryan were brainstorming names, one of them threw "bending" out there, and they just picked that.



> Also, does anyone here wonder if, in _The Legend of Korra,_ metalbending has been developed to the point where an earthbender can throw a piece of metal through the air and bend it into a shape that allows them restrain a person? The fact that there are "metalbending cops" in the new series certainly suggests so.



The Dai Li could already do something similar with their rock gloves, so I think it's quite possible.



> I was wondering something else: when _Avatar_ was translated into other languages, how well did names, titles, jokes, or cultural references fare in that process? Were they left unaltered, or did they need to be changed when the show was dubbed into other languages? Because changes are occasionally made when Japanese animation is translated into other languages, I imagine that similar changes may have been made to this western animated series, also.



There were probably some changes, but not as much as going from Japanese to English.  Most of the Avatar dubs that I've seen mentioned are dubs into other European languages.  There are some core similarities between European languages in differing measures that makes it somewhat easier to translate both the literal meaning and the intended meaning than from English (or another European language) to Japanese.  There was a English to Japanese dub, and that probably had significant changes.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

> I dont ever recall someone saying how epic it was for Aang to transform into AS because his back got slammed into a rock...



Maybe not epic, but I really enjoyed it. If they had done something like Goku's transformation or maybe something else, I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much. Why? Because it makes sense to me that the place where Azula hit him being harmed, forced the Avatar State. But then again, that could be me...



Furious George said:


> Probably should have known that.


Its okay. xD


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Maybe not epic, but I really enjoyed it. If they had done something like Goku's transformation or maybe something else, I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much. Why? Because it makes sense to me that the place where Azula hit him being harmed, forced the Avatar State. But then again, that could be me...



Nah, I just found it weird. Basically, he got a free power up without any effort. 

It would have been a perfect moment when he was curled up in that earthball to dig deep and reach an epiphany. He could have confronted the Avatar line that was before him and demanded his cosmic powers. He could have gone above the previous/recent Avatars and come face to face with the_ very first _Avatar and claim the power he needs by right! He could have pushed with all his will and beyond to break that dam/blockade in his spiritual powers and harness it for himself, for his existence, for the last hope of balance in this world, for the Avatars that will come after him!

He already used an ancient power/technique with *spiritbending.* A bending before there was bending of the elements. Something the other Avatars never told him about, something they themselves never used. Why couldnt he have also tapped into his primal Avatar powers through sheer necessity and will....? Couldnt he have reached a level of spiritual consciousness beyond that of the Avatars before him, and become closer to his cosmic powers than ever before? 

Why? Because there was simply no other way to achieve balance in the world! Something that the spiritual, natural and human world yearned for! A balance that was ripped from the world and 100 years already overdue...?  

Or...

They could use the random rock method...No offense but WTF?  Some could say the rock saved the day...lol  

Whats so lame about this scenario is at the end of the day - Aang lucked out. The fate of the world got lucky. He stole Ozai's victory from him. He didnt overcome it...he didnt claw his way up to grasp it...it fell into his lap. 

_IMO_


----------



## Jena (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> They could use the random rock method...No offense but WTF?  Some could say the rock saved the day...lol
> 
> Whats so lame about this scenario is at the end of the day - Aang lucked out. The fate of the world got lucky. He stole Ozai's victory from him. He didnt overcome it...he didnt claw his way up to grasp it...it fell into his lap.
> 
> _IMO_



See, I kind of liked the rock method. He used what he'd learned throughout the series as opposed to discovering a new ability* during the fight and using that.

I can see why people would think of it as a cop-out but I never did.

*Spirit bending was arguably a new ability but it was hinted at earlier in the series and so IMHO it wasn't really a "new" ability.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Jena said:


> See, I kind of liked the rock method. He used what he'd learned throughout the series as opposed to discovering a new ability* during the fight and using that.



He used what he learnt but still couldnt win. He was as good as dead - fair and square. 

And Im not talking about a new technique. Im talking about getting the powers he was entitled to - but through sheer desperation and need. Through fortitude, not some weak written, conveniently placed shape of rock that was in the right place in a 1 in a million chance. 



Jena said:


> *Spirit bending was arguably a new ability but it was hinted at earlier in the series and so IMHO it wasn't really a "new" ability.



When was it hinted?


----------



## Jena (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> He used what he learnt but still couldnt win. He was as good as dead - fair and square.
> 
> And Im not talking about a new technique. Im talking about getting the powers he was entitled to - but through sheer desperation and need. Through fortitude, not some weak written, conveniently placed shape of rock that was in the right place in a 1 in a million chance.


I'm confused by what rock you're talking about, exactly. 

(TURN THE SOUND OFF BEFORE YOU WATCH THIS VIDEO--the song that the person set this to is obnoxious)


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Jena said:


> I'm confused by what rock you're talking about, exactly.



The rock at 1:39. Instead of the rock just by passing the problem and giving Aang his powers, they give Aang introspective time in somehow getting his powers back himself.



> In the previous episode with the turtle.
> 
> It's also mentioned in the art book. Quoted from the Avatar wiki:
> 
> I can't remember if there were any obvious hints throughout the series to this, TBPH. It definitely was an idea that they were planning from the beginning.



Well thats only ever implied deep in the last quarter of the actual series.


----------



## Wan (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Nah, I just found it weird. Basically, he got a free power up without any effort.
> 
> It would have been a perfect moment when he was curled up in that earthball to dig deep and reach an epiphany. He could have confronted the Avatar line that was before him and demanded his cosmic powers. He could have gone above the previous/recent Avatars and come face to face with the_ very first _Avatar and claim the power he needs by right! He could have pushed with all his will and beyond to break that dam/blockade in his spiritual powers and harness it for himself, for his existence, for the last hope of balance in this world, for the Avatars that will come after him!
> 
> ...



Some of that sounds kind of cheesy.  Any way could have happened, it would have smelled of DEM.  It would also introduce a bit of a plothole in that if Aang could do this on his own willpower, why _didn't_ he do it before?  Why not when the airships were wrecking the invasion force?  Why didn't he spend time meditating before his confrontation with Ozai in order to unlock the Avatar State for undoubtedly what would be the hardest fight in his life?

But the thing is, the Avatar State didn't solve everything.  It didn't solve Aang's dilemma that he wanted to defeat Ozai for good without killing him.  In fact, the Avatar State was driving him to kill Ozai.  In the end, he overcame the Avatar State itself and used energybending -- which was something he had to give effort into in order to overcome Ozai.  Aang almost died in the process.

So while the Avatar State was his big powerup, it was subverted in a way because he ultimately didn't use the Avatar State to achieve his goal.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 24, 2011)

I can accept that the creators of the series had conceived the idea of energybending at the beginning of the series, but I still find it to be rather unusual, and thus do not like, that there was little or no foreshadowing of that ability for most of the series; it seemed like a convenient _deus ex machina_ that allowed Aang to defeat Ozai. Plus, he never trained in that ability; the Lion Turtle merely granted it to him, which only furthered its incredulity, in my mind.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I can accept that the creators of the series had conceived the idea of energybending at the beginning of the series, but I still find it to be rather unusual, and thus do not like, that there was little or no foreshadowing of that ability for most of the series; it seemed like a convenient _deus ex machina_ that allowed Aang to defeat Ozai. Plus, he never trained in that ability; the Lion Turtle merely granted it to him, which only furthered its incredulity, in my mind.



I don't know, a giant turtle granting him the ability to energy bend never bothered me half as much as it should have. I'll agree that it had very little foreshadowing but there were hints here and there throughout the series that bending in general was a complex art and that no one really learned all there was to know about it... take for instance Iroh explaining that he learned to send lightning back by studying Water bending. That fact alone deepened the concept of bending quite a bit and the implications behind it allows the audience's mind to go wild. 

Is it crazily convenient that a giant turtle would come and give Aang exactly what he needed to win in the way of energy bending? Yes. 

Was it completely random and did the series establish bending in a way that made the concept of energy-bending seem tacked-on? No, I don't think so.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Oman said:


> Some of that sounds kind of cheesy.



Its only cheesy if they handle it poorly. Its all about the introspection moment. For people who followed Goku all through Dragonball Z up to the Fireza arc...I doubt the majority thought of his emotional burst cheesy at all. Only those who dont follow the series and just clips here and there would critize it.  



Oman said:


> Any way could have happened, it would have smelled of DEM.  It would also introduce a bit of a plothole in that if Aang could do this on his own willpower, why _didn't_ he do it before?  Why not when the airships were wrecking the invasion force?



Because he never faced Ozai at DoBS. The airships was unexpected. Not confronting Ozai was unexpected. The others and himself were not in immediate threat of death...just capture. 

In the final, Aang was literally caught between a rock and a hard place. It was just lame that the rock was the catalyst of him winning.



> Why didn't he spend time meditating before his confrontation with Ozai in order to unlock the Avatar State for undoubtedly what would be the hardest fight in his life?



Because he never did want to fight Ozai till* after *Sozins comet. lol He was so happy-go-lucky - in fact the whole Gaang was till Zuko finally told them to get the fuck off their asses...

If we want to talk about Aang achieving the AS before the final, how about when Toph was giving him some back rock massage therapy? If its only a physical, random prerequisite surely Toph had better chances of activating right there then whenever.



> But the thing is, the Avatar State didn't solve everything.  It didn't solve Aang's dilemma that he wanted to defeat Ozai for good without killing him.  In fact, the Avatar State was driving him to kill Ozai.  In the end, he overcame the Avatar State itself and used energybending -- which was something he had to give effort into in order to overcome Ozai.  Aang almost died in the process.



Ozai was already defeated any which way. That was just a personal issue Aang had to handle. Its wasnt a burden he had to conquer for the sake of the world...it wasnt something he felt was 100 years overdue. 

The point is however, he would never, ever have reached that point without the AS. Something the writers never gave him the ability to obtain on his own. Even when EVERYTHING depended on him - he was found wanting.



> So while the Avatar State was his big powerup, it was subverted in a way because he ultimately didn't use the Avatar State to achieve his goal.



No, he really needed the AS to subdue Ozai. Without it he would have died  and the Korra series would be taking place quite quicker than the 70 years later it is now.


----------



## Glued (Oct 24, 2011)

> Its only cheesy if they handle it poorly. Its all about the introspection moment. For people who followed Goku all through Dragonball Z up to the Fireza arc...I doubt the majority thought of his emotional burst cheesy at all. Only those who dont follow the series and just clips here and there would critize it.



No, it got cheesy after Ussj and Ussj2.
Then got chessier with SS2
Then got even cheesier with SS3
Then the cheese finally clotted all my arteries and killed me with SS4


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## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Nah, I just found it weird. Basically, he got a free power up without any effort.
> 
> It would have been a perfect moment when he was curled up in that earthball to dig deep and reach an epiphany. He could have confronted the Avatar line that was before him and demanded his cosmic powers. He could have gone above the previous/recent Avatars and come face to face with the_ very first _Avatar and claim the power he needs by right! He could have pushed with all his will and beyond to break that dam/blockade in his spiritual powers and harness it for himself, for his existence, for the last hope of balance in this world, for the Avatars that will come after him!
> 
> ...


It made sense though that being hit there unlocked his Avatar state when he never completed the Chakra thing. 

Why couldn't he? Because his State had been locked and he never completed the Chakra sealing training-thing, so he couldn't use the power of Avatar like that. I think that's how he actually managed the Spirit bending too, after he was unlocked and fully realized.

I very much enjoyed the ending. I thought it was perfect for Aang's character and the story. I always suspected he would not kill him, even if he was destroying the world. I love how it played out... 

*it was kinda inspirational to me. lol*


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> No, it got cheesy after Ussj and Ussj2.
> Then got chessier with SS2
> Then got even cheesier with SS3
> Then the cheese finally clotted all my arteries and killed me with SS4



Good thing for Aang there was only AS1 he needed. 

So chances are it wouldnt have been cheesy at at all...


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> It made sense though that being hit there unlocked his Avatar state when he never completed the Chakra thing.



Does it really? 

AS was always a psychological thing. Aang was locked from that state since it was told that if the Avatar in AS was killed the whole cycle or reincarnation would be severed. Aang pretty much was dying while being in the AS.

That doesnt really imply hitting him in the wound could join the connection to his comsic powers again. And if we follow that idea, doesnt it make more sense that another lightning blast in that area should be the catalyst to reconnect Aangs transformation?   

Lightningbening is at least energy based and I can see it as a parallel with using a jolt of electricity from a defibrillator to jump start the heart (aka the Avatar State). Or how neural synapses are electrical signals and another lightningblast could set synapses firing overtime and some how forge the connection with his mind and the AS once more.

But a piece of rock conveniently there. Did it have any business being there? Thats my point. Sure okay say, that if rock hit the wounded area he somehow gets his AS back. But no one has explained to me why the rock was there in the first place...?

You know I will actually buy the whole rock - AS connection IF the rock was actually an old Lion Turtle statue left in some ruins. Then there's a sense of some mysterious providence about it. 

Like had there been some higher force to make the sculpturer/builder of the old temple/statue build that little area at the point in time - so that long into the future it would be part of some pivotal event.

Then you could emphasize the whole, "everything is connected" again. Not just in the current world but through time itself...

But thats just me...so whatevs.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

@Waking Dreamer:

It does to me.

Well if it wasn't being hit on his back that caused his awakening because of it being locked and sealed by the lightning, why did being hit there release the state...?


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> @Waking Dreamer:
> 
> It does to me.



Fair enough. I myself cant come up with an analogy that would indicate this should happen. 



> Well if it wasn't being hit on his back that caused his awakening because of it being locked and sealed by the lightning, why did being hit there release the state...?



I dont get what youre saying exactly. Are you saying that the rock released his AS because simply that's what happened in the show...?


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## Wan (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Because he never faced Ozai at DoBS. The airships was unexpected. Not confronting Ozai was unexpected. The others and himself were not in immediate threat of death...just capture.
> 
> In the final, Aang was literally caught between a rock and a hard place. It was just lame that the rock was the catalyst of him winning.



Aang was _going_ to face Ozai in DoBS.  That invasion was their last forseeable chance to overthrow Ozai and end the war.  If ever there was a time to use the Avatar State, it was then.  Aang didn't use the Avatar State because he couldn't.  Inexplicably being able to break through and use it in Sozin's Comet would have been a plot hole.



> Because he never did want to fight Ozai till* after *Sozins comet. lol He was so happy-go-lucky - in fact the whole Gaang was till Zuko finally told them to get the fuck off their asses...



I'm talking about after the group resolved to fight Ozai.  He seemed to have plenty of time even just waiting on the pillar to unlock the Avatar State.



> If we want to talk about Aang achieving the AS before the final, how about when Toph was giving him some back rock massage therapy? If its only a physical, random prerequisite surely Toph had better chances of activating right there then whenever.



Joke scene.  Though it would have been funny if Toph had accidentally triggered the Avatar State.



> Ozai was already defeated any which way. That was just a personal issue Aang had to handle. Its wasnt a burden he had to conquer for the sake of the world...it wasnt something he felt was 100 years overdue.



It was the theme and conflict of the finale.  It went deeper than DBZ's "Kill the villain and everything will go back to normal.  Until the next villain comes along."



> The point is however, he would never, ever have reached that point without the AS. Something the writers never gave him the ability to obtain on his own. Even when EVERYTHING depended on him - he was found wanting.
> 
> No, he really needed the AS to subdue Ozai. Without it he would have died  and the Korra series would be taking place quite quicker than the 70 years later it is now.



I know he needed the Avatar State to subdue Ozai.  But as I said, the conflict ran deeper than giving Ozai a tactical defeat.  Aang's goal was to defeat Ozai permanently and end the war.  The Avatar State was a bit of an obstacle to this, since his past lives had all encouraged him to kill Aang.

Btw, after Aang "powered down" from the Avatar State, he did use some bending to restrain Ozai again (earth sense, actually).


Waking Dreamer said:


> Does it really?
> 
> AS was always a psychological thing. Aang was locked from that state since it was told that if the Avatar in AS was killed the whole cycle or reincarnation would be severed. Aang pretty much was dying while being in the AS.



Up until Azula shot Aang with lightning, sure, it was pyschological.  Afterwards it wasn't.  Aang explains in DoBS that his seventh chakra was locked by the lightning.  That was physical.





> That doesnt really imply hitting him in the wound could join the connection to his comsic powers again. And if we follow that idea, doesnt it make more sense that another lightning blast in that area should be the catalyst to reconnect Aangs transformation?
> 
> Lightningbening is at least energy based and I can see it as a parallel with using a jolt of electricity from a defibrillator to jump start the heart (aka the Avatar State). Or how neural synapses are electrical signals and another lightningblast could set synapses firing overtime and some how forge the connection with his mind and the AS once more.



Um, maybe?  But good luck trying to use the Avatar State when you're shot dead with lightning.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Fair enough. I myself cant come up with an analogy that would indicate this should happen.
> 
> I dont get what youre saying exactly. Are you saying that the rock released his AS because simply that's what happened in the show...?



I mean -- sorry I was confusing -- how do you think the AS released during his battle?


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Oman said:


> Aang was _going_ to face Ozai in DoBS.  That invasion was their last forseeable chance to overthrow Ozai and end the war.  If ever there was a time to use the Avatar State, it was then.  Aang didn't use the Avatar State because he couldn't.  Inexplicably being able to break through and use it in Sozin's Comet would have been a plot hole.



Aang was going to fight Ozai without bending powers. He was banking on this.  Nothing more. If there was no eclipse weakness the Invasion Force wouldnt have happened. 



> I'm talking about after the group resolved to fight Ozai.  He seemed to have plenty of time even just waiting on the pillar to unlock the Avatar State.



Again he was banking on 3 bending vs 1 bending. He tired it - it didnt fly. His resolve wasnt strong enough. He needed a Plan B right at the moment - which the writers never gave him. 




> Joke scene.  Though it would have been funny if Toph had accidentally triggered the Avatar State.



Emphasising there was nothing foreshdowing a hit on the back would give his powers back at all. Thats the closest you get and as you said - a joke scene.




> It was the theme and conflict of the finale.  It went deeper than DBZ's "Kill the villain and everything will go back to normal.  Until the next villain comes along.



Still not the point of how he unlocked AS but Goku has always had a pacifist nature just like the Airbenders. He spared Frieza's life and even gave him some of his own powers. Difference is when Frieza betrayed his kindness Goku didnt have Energybending to resolve the conflict.   




> I know he needed the Avatar State to subdue Ozai.  But as I said, the conflict ran deeper than giving Ozai a tactical defeat.  Aang's goal was to defeat Ozai permanently and end the war.  The Avatar State was a bit of an obstacle to this, since his past lives had all encouraged him to kill Aang.



Thats got nothing to do with how he obtains AS though, which is my issue.



> Up until Azula shot Aang with lightning, sure, it was pyschological.  Afterwards it wasn't.  Aang explains in DoBS that his seventh chakra was locked by the lightning.  That was physical.



Which doesnt translate to a rock tap as a reversing method.



> Btw, after Aang "powered down" from the Avatar State, he did use some bending to restrain Ozai again (earth sense, actually).



I know but that doesnt really add anything to the argument. 



> Um, maybe?  But good luck trying to use the Avatar State when you're shot dead with lightning.



As long as the powerup doesnt fall onto his lap...lol. It was you who also said that it was lightning that blocked his connection. So going the physical route, logically lightning would have the logical next step to get his powers back.

But thats if we go the physical - imo a psychological rsolution would have made much more sense. 



Terra Branford said:


> I mean -- sorry I was confusing -- how do you think the AS released during his battle?



Well thats the point. A physical activation was never hinted before the actual event. Short of saying he activated the AS with a physical method because he activated the AS with a physical method...there no really explanation it for it...

BUT thats not even my main beef. My main beef is why was the rock there in the first place....?

Again we know he needed a psychological method to obtain the AS. Im sure he tried to meditate before hand and realised he couldnt. But at the time he also was expecting to fight Ozai without bending or use 3 bending vs 1.  Never before the final did he realise he couldnt defeat Ozai without AS - thats the difference between not activating the AS mentally beforehand and activating it mentally while in the rock mound. There was 100% no other alternative right at that moment. 

Its totally suss he got AS powers for free.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

The rock was there because it was there? If you mean the oddness of its shape, maybe it happened with all their fighting and stuff...


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> The rock was there because it was there? If you mean the oddness of its shape, maybe it happened with all their fighting and stuff...



Exactly! And if it wasnt? He lucked out. Is there a writing term for having a character gain something he needs right when he needs it through no effort of his own..?  

He was as good as dead - fair and square. Though personally I think if Aang had died Ozai would have still eventually been defeated by Iroh and the WLS with high losses on their side.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

We all knew he had to win with AS, there was no way to win without it. I don't think it was lucking out since he had it since the very beginning of the show...


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

And the way he got AS was with Deus ex machina. But we should all know this by now.  I was just pointing out it was pretty lame. 

The "cheesy way" would have been less of a DEM if you want to call that scenario a DEM one as well. At least we have seen him do it before and could add as development for his character.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't know. This made perfect sense because of everything else that happened, so I don't really think its cheesy.


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## Wan (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Aang was going to fight Ozai without bending powers. He was banking on this.  Nothing more. If there was no eclipse weakness the Invasion Force wouldnt have happened.
> 
> Again he was banking on 3 bending vs 1 bending. He tired it - it didnt fly. His resolve wasnt strong enough. He needed a Plan B right at the moment - which the writers never gave him.



What about after the eclipse passed and Aang still needed to defeat the Fire Lord?  What about in the time leading up to the eclipse, where he was freaking out?  He had every reason to try to unlock the Avatar State.  He just couldn't.  Allowing him to unlock it just...because...would have been a plot hole.



> Still not the point of how he unlocked AS but Goku has always had a pacifist nature just like the Airbenders. He spared Frieza's life and even gave him some of his own powers. Difference is when Frieza betrayed his kindness Goku didnt have Energybending to resolve the conflict.
> 
> Thats got nothing to do with how he obtains AS though, which is my issue.



Well my point seemed to have gone straight over your head.  Whatever shortcomings Aang's power up into the Avatar State had are less of an issue because ultimately the Avatar State did not solve Aang's problem.  Aang's problem wasn't as simple as beating Ozai.  It was beating Ozai permanently without killing him but still effectively.  (notice what each Avatar's final word of advice was.  Be decisive.  Only justice brings peace.  Actively shape your destiny and that of the world.  Sacrifice your own spiritual needs and do whatever it takes to protect the world.  In a way, energybending fulfilled each of those).

The Avatar State never even fulfilled the roll that Super Saiyan did.  Goku's goal was to beat Frieza.  El fin.  Aang's goal went beyond that, and he didn't use the Avatar State to accomplish it.



> Which doesnt translate to a rock tap as a reversing method.



The creators decide how things effect their fictional magic system, not fans.



> As long as the powerup doesnt fall onto his lap...lol. It was you who also said that it was lightning that blocked his connection. So going the physical route, logically lightning would have the logical next step to get his powers back.
> 
> But thats if we go the physical - imo a psychological rsolution would have made much more sense.



Logical?  How is it logical that Aang dies?

A psychological resolution _wouldn't_ have made sense. If a psychological resolution was all it took, then why didn't Aang get that pyschological resolution beforehand instead of when he was almost dead?  A psychological switch randomly flipping in a very convenient moment is no better than hitting a random rock at a very convenient moment.



> Again we know he needed a psychological method to obtain the AS. Im sure he tried to meditate before hand and realised he couldnt. But at the time he also was expecting to fight Ozai without bending or use 3 bending vs 1.  Never before the final did he realise he couldnt defeat Ozai without AS - thats the difference between not activating the AS mentally beforehand and activating it mentally while in the rock mound. There was 100% no other alternative right at that moment.
> 
> Its totally suss he got AS powers for free.



What?  The whole reason he was going to wait until after Sozin's comet was because he didn't think he could beat Ozai.  The whole reason he retreated from the invasion in DoBS was because he didn't think he could beat Ozai.  He was freaking out in Nightmares and Daydreams just worrying about facing Ozai.  His vision with opening his first chakra, the vision of what he was most afraid of, was Ozai.  He was 0% confident that he could beat Ozai on his own powers.



Waking Dreamer said:


> And the way he got AS was with Deus ex machina. But we should all know this by now.  I was just pointing out it was pretty lame.
> 
> The "cheesy way" would have been less of a DEM if you want to call that scenario a DEM one as well. At least we have seen him do it before and could add as development for his character.



What added development to Aang's character was subduing the Avatar State and using energybending to accomplish his goal instead.


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

*There is absolutely no bigger DEM than a random rock to give Aang's powers back. *

Aang *didnt do anything on his own accord* to even achieve it.

Aang achieving AS due to* him trying* harder than ever before* because* *he was about to die *is already less of DEM. 

Its that simple.  

People can unlock crazy strength and fortitude not ever previously shown before when they are faced with a do or die event. It is a *REAL WORLD* event. Its beyond fiction and DEM. It happens in survivor recounts all the time. 

* Its the instinct to survive.*

Aang is going to die - thats a big difference compared to Aang worrying about dying, or Aang worried about having to kill Ozai. That difference cant even be denied/debeated! 

Unless you can show Aang was about to die or an implication of such while he was mediating to get the AS back anytime before the final battle your argument has nothing to stand on.


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## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

I think facing a man with AS or knowing he had it and trying as hard as he was doing, did sorta help the situation, but its cool. An opinion is an opinion after all. 



> Unless you can show Aang was about to die or an implication of such while he was mediating to get the AS back anytime before the final battle your argument has nothing to stand on.


Oh my, it wasn't an argument, just a friend discussion I thought.


----------



## Wan (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> *There is absolutely no bigger DEM than a random rock to give Aang's powers back. *
> 
> Aang *didnt do anything on his own accord* to even achieve it.
> 
> ...



Ok...what you're describing is essentially how Aang would access the Avatar State _before_.  When he first froze himself in an iceberg, when Zuko knocked him into the water, when Fong was threatening to kill Katara, etc.  So the way you're suggesting for Aang to access the Avatar State...is the same way he'd been DEM'ing his way out of situations with the Avatar State since the series premiere.  This is an improvement how...?

And there's still the fact that Aang states in DoBS that he couldn't use the Avatar State because of his lightning wound.  If he ended up using it anyways, it raises the question of what was so bad about the lightning wound in the first place?  If nothing physical is keeping him from accessing the Avatar State when under extreme duress then there wouldn't be anything physical keeping him from accessing the Avatar State under normal conditions.  If it's not a physical limitation, then Aang should have been able to access the Avatar State just as he was in Crossroads of Destiny.  But he didn't, because he physically couldn't.  No amount of emotional duress would change that.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I think facing a man with AS or knowing he had it and trying as hard as he was doing, did sorta help the situation, but its cool. An opinion is an opinion after all.
> 
> 
> Oh my, it wasn't an argument, just a friend discussion I thought.



Its not that. 

I got the feeling someone was trying to sugar coat the 100% example of DEM which was the random rock. There's no need for that. 

Someone may accuse me for be presumptuous but I can safely say the canon event of Aang triggering the AS was as matter of "fact" a DEM. No ifs or buts about it.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 24, 2011)

Did Iroh ever go all out in a fight during the series? I do not recall him ever doing so; I definitively would liked to have seen him fight at his full power at least once.


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## Wan (Oct 24, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Its not that.
> 
> I got the feeling someone was trying to sugar coat the 100% example of DEM which was the random rock. There's no need for that.
> 
> Someone may accuse me for be presumptuous but I can safely say the canon event of Aang triggering the AS was as matter of "fact" a DEM. No ifs or buts about it.



Sure, it was a DEM.  Goku going Super Saiyan was a DEM as well, regardless of how well it was done.  It's the "how well it was done" part regarding the Avatar State that I was talking about.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Did Iroh ever go all out in a fight during the series? I do not recall him ever doing so; I definitively would liked to have seen him fight at his full power at least once.



He was never the focus of a fight, no.  He had plenty of moments where he did go all out in a "crowning moment of awesome" though.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Did Iroh ever go all out in a fight during the series? I do not recall him ever doing so; I definitively would liked to have seen him fight at his full power at least once.



Not from what I recall. The biggest fight I remember is the end and maybe, if you want to count it, when Zuko and Katara was captured.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 24, 2011)

Oman said:


> Ok...what you're describing is essentially how Aang would access the Avatar State _before_.  When he first froze himself in an iceberg, when Zuko knocked him into the water, when Fong was threatening to kill Katara, etc.



No every time he used the AS before getting fired by lightning wasn’t DEM because it was part of the internal logic of the story that was that – when the Avatar was in mortal danger the AS would kick in as a self defence.  Its explicitly stated thats what happens.  Aang having NO CONTROL over it was the point of part of his character development - to gain control over it.




> So the way you're suggesting for Aang to access the Avatar State...is the same way he'd been DEM'ing his way out of situations with the Avatar State since the series premiere.  This is an improvement how...?



The random rock DEM actually shits on the effort of Aang trying to achieve AS consciously because it was given to him yet again out of his control, even by the end of the show. When a psychological breakthrough of activating on his accord would INDEED make more sense and complete his journey into learning the AS and using it successfully to save the day.  Since it would have been the first time in the series he does this. How poetic is it to achieve this at the very last time you see him use it in the series yes....?



> And there's still the fact that Aang states in DoBS that he couldn't use the Avatar State because of his lightning wound.  If he ended up using it anyways, it raises the question of what was so bad about the lightning wound in the first place?  If nothing physical is keeping him from accessing the Avatar State when under extreme duress then there wouldn't be anything physical keeping him from accessing the Avatar State under normal conditions.



Not at all. 

What physical limitation do you have to eat a dead persons body on a nice Sunday afternoon barbecue? What physical limitation do you have to rip/cut your arm off while watching TV from the couch? Would you say its just as easy compared to being stranded on a freezing mountain top starving or your arm pinned under a boulder in the forest by yourself. 



> If it's not a physical limitation, then Aang should have been able to access the Avatar State just as he was in Crossroads of Destiny.  But he didn't, because he physically couldn't.  No amount of emotional duress would change that.



Would you consider the feats above any less difficulty because there was no real physical limitation? Psychological, contextual and environmental factors make for a major difference in achieving those feats. There are already real world examples of this such as the survivor recounts.



> Sure, it was a DEM. Goku going Super Saiyan was a DEM as well, regardless of how well it was done.



Emotional resolution as “cheesy” as you say it is...makes for a more complete story than the blatant DEM rock method. You cant even relate that to moments like real world bursts of power to survive a life threatening moment. 

With the DEM rock - suspension of disbelief is broken. At least psychological resolve and impossible feats can be related back to real world examples.  



> It's the "how well it was done" part regarding the Avatar State that I was talking about.



The rock was just...there...it just...gave him his AS powers back.  

Whats so good about that handling?...and Im asking whats so good about the specific rock moment. Not what it wasnt - but whats actually canon, what was the silver lining in that moment....?


----------



## Wan (Oct 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> No every time he used the AS before getting fired by lightning wasn’t DEM because it was part of the internal logic of the story that was that – when the Avatar was in mortal danger the AS would kick in as a self defence.  Its explicitly stated thats what happens.  Aang having NO CONTROL over it was the point of part of his character development - to gain control over it.



But that's exactly what you are suggesting.  Aang being in mortal danger against Ozai is what would allow him to access the Avatar State, if the story was made your way.



> The random rock DEM actually shits on the effort of Aang trying to achieve AS consciously because it was given to him yet again out of his control, even by the end of the show. When a psychological breakthrough of activating on his accord would INDEED make more sense and complete his journey into learning the AS and using it successfully to save the day.  Since it would have been the first time in the series he does this. How poetic is it to achieve this at the very last time you see him use it in the series yes....?



Aang actually did use the Avatar State consciously right after he beat Ozai, to pull in the ocean and put out the fires.  He actually does it very easily.  That just goes to show that his problem before was a physical one and not a psychological one.



> Not at all.
> 
> What physical limitation do you have to eat a dead persons body on a nice Sunday afternoon barbecue? What physical limitation do you have to rip/cut your arm off while watching TV from the couch? Would you say its just as easy compared to being stranded on a freezing mountain top starving or your arm pinned under a boulder in the forest by yourself.
> 
> Would you consider the feats above any less difficulty because there was no real physical limitation? Psychological, contextual and environmental factors make for a major difference in achieving those feats. There are already real world examples of this such as the survivor recounts.



We have no reason to think there was any such psychological factor blocking Aang from the Avatar State.  Guru Pathik pretty clearly explained what was necessary to consciously unlock the Avatar State -- and it didn't involve life-threatening duress.  If Aang was still psychologically blocked from the Avatar State all he would have needed to do was go through the process of opening the Chakras again.  No life-threatening duress involved.  But he specifically states that his seventh chakra was locked by Azula's lighting.  It was a physical issue, one that couldn't be solved psychologically.  That is a fact.



> Emotional resolution as “cheesy” as you say it is...makes for a more complete story than the blatant DEM rock method. You cant even relate that to moments like real world bursts of power to survive a life threatening moment.
> 
> The rock was just...there...it just...gave him his AS powers back.
> 
> Whats so good about that handling?...and Im asking whats so good about the specific rock moment. Not what it wasnt - but whats actually canon, what was the silver lining in that moment....?



The good part about the handling wasn't in the moment.  It came afterwards, when Aang subverted the use of his power up to accomplish his goals.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> But that's exactly what you are suggesting.  Aang being in mortal danger against Ozai is what would allow him to access the Avatar State, if the story was made your way.



Yeah, consciously through hardship is what Im suggesting. Which was part of his development from early on.    

But that never happened. 



> Aang actually did use the Avatar State consciously right after he beat Ozai, to pull in the ocean and put out the fires.  He actually does it very easily.



I knew that as I typed it. Not exactly the crowning moment to harness the AS to save the day is it? Yeah, the forest sure, save the forest but it wasnt really anything completing with his character development in regards to accessing his power consciously. 



> That just goes to show that his problem before was a physical one and not a psychological one.



That just goes to show the power was given to him on a silver platter. For free.



> We have no reason to think there was any such psychological factor blocking Aang from the Avatar State.  Guru Pathik pretty clearly explained what was necessary to consciously unlock the Avatar State -- and it didn't involve life-threatening duress.  If Aang was still psychologically blocked from the Avatar State all he would have needed to do was go through the process of opening the Chakras again.  No life-threatening duress involved.  But he specifically states that his seventh chakra was locked by Azula's lighting.  It was a physical issue, one that couldn't be solved psychologically.  That is a fact.



One Aang never found an answer for. 

As I said before Lightning =/= Rock =/= Answer. Sure in the story it happened BUT no one has come up with a solid, plausible explanation why that was so...other then it needed to happen.  



> The good part about the handling wasn't in the moment.  It came afterwards, when Aang subverted the use of his power up to accomplish his goals.



My argument was never about that. Nothing saves Aang achieving the AS from being poorly written. Anything else after that is inconsequential to me and while you stated that moments after that you liked as your opinion...again doesnt relate to what Im talking about. 

Poor activation AS is poor. I havent read a point the suggests to me otherwise. Probably because majority agree anyway.

Goku didnt kill Frieza just like what Aang did btw. The Avatar AS transformation didnt pull anything clearly superior to Goku SSJ / Frieza conflict. Which is why I prefer the Goku SSJ transformation because he didnt require a random object introduced into the event to reach the power he needed. Sure he had to see his childhood friend die...but that's partly what give Goku's transformation more plausibility than AS Aang.


----------



## Noah (Oct 25, 2011)




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## Wan (Oct 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah, consciously through hardship is what Im suggesting. Which was part of his development from early on.
> 
> But that never happened.



If the reason Aang uses the Avatar State is because he's under extreme hardship in that moment, a kind of duress he cannot consciously duplicate, then it's not a conscious activation at all.



> I knew that as I typed it. Not exactly the crowning moment to harness the AS to save the day is it? Yeah, the forest sure, save the forest but it wasnt really anything completing with his character development in regards to accessing his power consciously.



So you were knowingly being dishonest?  Wonderful.

I think Aang using the Avatar State to put out the fires was an good way to indicate that his journey to save the world and defeat the Fire Nation was over.



> That just goes to show the power was given to him on a silver platter. For free.



He probably wouldn't have been able to do it in that moment if not for Pathik's teaching.  So no, it wasn't for free.  It's just that the psychological cost was paid a long time ago, only a physical reason remained stopping him.



> One Aang never found an answer for.
> 
> As I said before Lightning =/= Rock =/= Answer. Sure in the story it happened BUT no one has come up with a solid, plausible explanation why that was so...other then it needed to happen.



And as I said before, you aren't the person writing the rules about this.  The creators decide how their fictional magic systems work.  If a pointy rock hitting the right place unblocks the Avatar State, then that's that.  No arguing.



> My argument was never about that. Nothing saves Aang achieving the AS from being poorly written. Anything else after that is inconsequential to me and while you stated that moments after that you liked as your opinion...again doesnt relate to what Im talking about.
> 
> Poor activation AS is poor. I havent read a point the suggests to me otherwise. Probably because majority agree anyway.



Well then you're putting too much focus on an event that ultimately wasn't what solved the conflict of the finale, IMO.



> Goku didnt kill Frieza just like what Aang did btw. The Avatar AS transformation didnt pull anything clearly superior to Goku SSJ / Frieza conflict. Which is why I prefer the Goku SSJ transformation because he didnt require a random object introduced into the event to reach the power he needed. Sure he had to see his childhood friend die...but that's what give Goku's transformation more plausibility than AS Aang.



But Goku's transformation is still what solved the issue of beating Frieza.  The Avatar State didn't solve Aang's problem.  Super Saiyan transformation and the Avatar State can't be compared in what they accomplished.


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

Also about the physical Issue over emotional duress issue, consider this:

A teenage boy sees his uncle get pinned under a car hes working on weighing over a ton. Hes the only one there and the car is current crushing his chest/ribs. What does the boy do? He rushes over and lifts the car long enough for the his uncle to struggle from under and out of the car. 

The teenage boy has repeatedly tried to lift the same car over and over again afterwards. He barely makes the car budge.

A psychological issue or physical one? 

True story.

*EDIT: *About the no arguing point because they write the rules..?!  You got to be kidding me right? Thats wanking the authors isnt it?

That's the whole reason people came up with DEM 

To indicate a weakness in the writing. The fact that you cant come up with a logical interpretation as to why the event occurs with the information given with the internal logic of the story MAKES it a DEM.

Not saying Mike and Bryan are shit writers now...but thats a clear case of sugar coating whats so damn an obvious flaw. Why do that?


----------



## Wan (Oct 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Also about the physical Issue over emotional duress issue, consider this:
> 
> A teenage boy sees his uncle get pinned under a car hes working on weighing over a ton. Hes the only one there and the car is current crushing his chest/ribs. What does the boy do? He rushes over and lifts the car long enough for the his uncle to struggle from under and out of the car.
> 
> ...



And the point that seems to be escaping you is that the Avatar State never was a psychological problem of that sort.  It's something that could not be obtained by any amount of raw effort.  Let's say the kid's uncle is having a heart attack.  The adrenaline pumping through the kid at the time makes no difference to how the kid can help.



> *EDIT: *About the no arguing point because they write the rules..?!  You got to be kidding me right? Thats wanking the authors isnt it?
> 
> That's the whole reason people came up with DEM
> 
> ...



I said that because you were claiming that if lightning locked the chakra then it doesn't make sense for the rock to be able to unlock it.  But that was never stated; you're just making up rules and then saying what happens in the show goes against them.  You don't get to do that.


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

Oman said:


> And the point that seems to be escaping you is that the Avatar State never was a psychological problem of that sort.  It's something that could not be obtained by any amount of raw effort.  Let's say the kid's uncle is having a heart attack.  The adrenaline pumping through the kid at the time makes no difference to how the kid can help.



Well you said Aang said Lightning locked up his chakra/chi flow. Where is it implied/said that ONLY a physical method could hope to change it? Thats what your implying....but thats not "fact" unless its stated some media beyond the series. 

If anything the story only implies from Aangs point of view he can never achieve it again. Nothing splits the issue between the physical and psychological....? From the teenage kids point of view (my story) he can never lift 1+ ton vehicle on a normal day/situation either. 

Physical and psychological issues are not necessarily independent of each other. 

How is the uncle's heart attack a fair analogy to a locked up AS when its beyond either the physical of psychological control of the kid anyway. He either calls an ambulance  but thats pretty far off from Aang trapped in the earth shield anyway.  



Oman said:


> I said that because you were claiming that if lightning locked the chakra then it doesn't make sense for the rock to be able to unlock it.  But that was never stated; you're just making up rules and then saying what happens in the show goes against them.  You don't get to do that.



Im asking a fair question. Im asking how does a rock impact reverse a lightning injury? Because Im claiming it doesnt make sense to me.

You just responded it does because it does. It is possible for an event such as that to have a greater explanation than simply..."Because!" I wanted to know if a thread full of Avatar watchers had one.

If dont have an answer fair enough. But as if that prevents me from asking the question... Thats ridiculous.


----------



## Burke (Oct 25, 2011)

Yep, silver platter, 60 episodes of dicking around, and aang was just given strength without training.


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Yep, silver platter, 60 episodes of dicking around, and aang was just given strength without training.



derp derp using an image as an argument. 

What *was* shown was that the training he had *wasnt enough *by the time the 60 eps came through to crunch time.

Am I wrong...?


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Also about the physical Issue over emotional duress issue, consider this:
> 
> A teenage boy sees his uncle get pinned under a car hes working on weighing over a ton. Hes the only one there and the car is current crushing his chest/ribs. What does the boy do? He rushes over and lifts the car long enough for the his uncle to struggle from under and out of the car.
> 
> ...



Except the teenage boy didn't magically grow blond hair and green eyes. Lady your using Incredible Hulk/Green Lantern logic. Except Green Lantern we are told from the beginning that Green Lantern is powered by will and Hulk is powered by rage. Inconsistent power is part of their actual power set.

Emotional duress doesn't cause you to change your physical form.

Goku turning Super Saiyan is DEM, pure and simple. And gaining ub3r power via my best friend died is just as cheesy as HULK SMASH!!! 

Having Goku transform in SJ due to rage is just as cheap a cop out as bumping a rock. It would mean someone close to Aang would have to get hurt in order for him to win. Sacrificing one character to promote Aang.

Or use the Willpower method instead of Rage. They were making fun of this in Claymore, "I hope its not something as boring as willpower."

You also fail to realize that unlike Dragonball, the avatar universe has no method of returning people back to life.

It was also repetitive of Akira Toriyama to use Krillin's death to motivate Goku. Since he did the exact same thing in Dragonball with Tambourine. 

Whether it is rock or rage, it really doesn't mean much for either.


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## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

> Emotional resolution as “cheesy” as you say it is...makes for a more complete story than the blatant DEM rock method. You cant even relate that to moments like real world bursts of power to survive a life threatening moment.



No it doesn't, that is like saying Gollum accidentally tripping and falling into Mt. Doom makes it a less complete story than DB.

I can relate it to luck, such as banging my television set and it starts working for no reason.



> With the DEM rock - suspension of disbelief is broken. At least psychological resolve and impossible feats can be related back to real world examples.



Not really broken, Aang just got lucky that he got hit in the sweet spot.


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> No it doesn't, that is like saying Gollum accidentally tripping and falling into Mt. Doom makes it a less complete story than DB.
> 
> I can relate it to luck, such as banging my television set and it starts working for no reason.



There is a reason, banging on an electrical appliance can often set a circuit board or wiring into alignment. It doesnt just happen because you want it to...




Ben Grimm said:


> Not really broken, Aang just got lucky that he got hit in the sweet spot.



You just said something I myself said two pages ago. 



Waking Dreamer said:


> Whats so lame about this scenario is at the end of the day - Aang lucked out. The fate of the world got lucky. He stole Ozai's victory from him. He didnt overcome it...he didnt claw his way up to grasp it...it fell into his lap.
> 
> _IMO_



Lucking out is shitty when the world is depending on it...imo. Its fine for watching your TV but lame in a story where you have to fight for the world.


----------



## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> There is a reason, banging on an electrical appliance can often set a circuit board or wiring into alignment. It doesnt just happen because you want it to...



Why not Aang got banged and his chakra wiring was restored?



> Lucking out is shitty when the world is depending on it...imo. Its fine for watching your TV but lame in a story where you have to fight for the world.



So Gollum accidentally falling into Mount Doom is lame for a story?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Why not Aang got banged and his chakra wiring was restored?



If Aang was implied to have his chakra system like a TV set...?

Your Rolex Watch can also stop working...the last thing you want to do is start banging on it till it works, am I right...? 

But even in your TV scenario...the person at least gets props for banging the TV with the goal/hope of having it work again. That proactiveness of trying to get into AS before it was activated was completely missing in the final anyway.



> So Gollum accidentally falling into Mount Doom is lame for a story?



If I recall it was Gollum's greed that lead him down the path of slipping and falling. 

I still say it was a lame way to activate AS in Avatar regardless, of how some other writer, in some other story, decides to write in probability in their ending. No one has shown me otherwise.


----------



## MunchKing (Oct 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Why not Aang got banged and his chakra wiring was restored?





Lulzy discussion you're having. 



Waking Dreamer said:


> I still say it was a lame way to activate AS in Avatar regardless, of how some other writer, in some other story, decides to write in probability in their ending. No one has shown me otherwise.



Aang not having access to the Avatar State was necessary to increase tension for the final showdown between him and Ozai. If he could summon it at will the battle would have been one-sided. You can dislike how it was triggered. From a storyteller's perspective, for it to happen during combat was the best option.

And as mentioned, he wouldn't be able to even if he wanted. Granted, I think they should have explained that in a little more detail than a few lines in the entire season.


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## Furious George (Oct 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> If I recall it was Gollum's greed that lead him down the path of slipping and falling.



You're missing the point though. Its still safe to say that if Gollum didn't accidentally fall off a cliff there would be no happy ending for Middle-Earth and that fact (most would say) did nothing to cheapen the overall experience and effectivness of LOTR. 

The fact of the matter is a lot of our victories in life are based on chance (or fate or divine providence depending on what you believe) and not so much willpower... so I really don't see how a moment in a story that reflects a regular occurence in our own lives is any less realistic or lamer then willpower. You seem to be under the impression that adrenaline rushes/sudden bursts of power are somehow more legitimate and "real" then catching a break and I don't get why.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 25, 2011)

Furious George said:


> You're missing the point though. Its still safe to say that if Gollum didn't accidentally fall off a cliff there would be no happy ending for Middle-Earth and that fact (most would say) did nothing to cheapen the overall experience and effectivness of LOTR.
> 
> The fact of the matter is a lot of our victories in life are based on chance (or fate or divine providence depending on what you believe) and not so much willpower... so I really don't see how a moment in a story that reflects a regular occurence in our own lives is any less realistic or lamer then willpower. You seem to be under the impression that adrenaline rushes/sudden bursts of power are somehow more legitimate and "real" then catching a break and I don't get why.



I believe that I understand Waking Dreamer's idea; victory through skill is more satisfactory and believable than victory through luck because it is the result of an aspect of the victor, over which they have complete control, rather than an aspect of the environment, over which they have less control. I myself believe that skill is always superior to luck, and therefore greatly dislike it when a person defeats a more skilled opponent through luck.


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## Furious George (Oct 25, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I believe that I understand Waking Dreamer's idea; victory through skill is more satisfactory and believable than victory through luck because it is the result of an aspect of the victor, over which they have complete control, rather than an aspect of the environment, over which they have less control. I myself believe that skill is always superior to luck, and therefore greatly dislike it when a person defeats a more skilled opponent through luck.



I totally get that but my gripe is that WD is using real occurances of willpower (like the whole kid lifting a truck thing) to validate his opinion on the matter as though these things happening in real life automatically makes it cooler or more authentic... well, I can tell you that for certain that instances of luck happen FAR more often so using that as an argument is sort of silly.   

And to go even further he isn't just talking about skill anyway. He is talking about sudden strength gained through "willpower" for the most part... and I can argue that it is no more the result of the aspect of the victor then luck since they don't have complete control over it. They just got really hyped or mad or whatever.

In my own opinion one method, whether willpower or luck or training, isn't preferable over the other. All are very real components of succeeding at things and it all depends on delivery that makes them entertaining. LOTR is a perfect example of that.


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## Burke (Oct 25, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> derp derp using an image as an argument.
> 
> What *was* shown was that the training he had *wasnt enough *by the time the 60 eps came through to crunch time.
> 
> Am I wrong...?



Burke IMG count: 1
WD IMG count: 3


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## Narcissus (Oct 25, 2011)

Really didn't care about the rock being what reactivated Aang's AS. Besides, luck is pretty important in fiction, so much so that there are even charcters with the power to manipulate it.

If anything, shopwing luck makes things a bit more realistic.

If there is anything to criticize in the last fight, it was the energybending rather than the rock.


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

*@ Furious George*

The bursts of strength was just one type of example I used at the time because it was relevant to the convo. But there are other real world examples I can use if you got such a gripe with it. Stress, panic, desperation can all lead to extreme levels of focus. It happens all the time while studying for final exams don?t it?

Cram sessions no?

I go to the lectures, I go to the tuts I do (try) the questions all semester, I still cant get my head wrapped around the topic.  Oh would you look at that Final exam is in 48 hours...?!? I devote the next 6 hours to get the topic or I don?t. Nothing else is on my mind topic, topic, topic and more topic ?  boom! It Clicks!...wait, no...let me check...? Yes! I get it! It all fits perfectly! For the love of God I understand it! ? *Is this a DEM alert people...!?* Did the powers that be bestow upon me the understanding I so desperately needed...? 

Also, do you think if I never tried during semester I would have gotten the same result in that last 6 hours? Even though I failed all those times in comprehending said topic before - it still would have helped build the skill/knowledge for me to focus/concentrate at crunch time.  

Im not proposing Aangs psychological resolution should forgo all his training and just get angry. Im saying use all his mediation/training /experience before hand and focus it like a laser in a do or die scenario. Reasonable I say. My idea is ALL about skill/experienced - focused into a scalpel edge. What happened with the rock was Aang blanking out - and going Hulk Smash...! DEM.

What actually gripes me is people saying Aang couldn?t unlock AS through focus before the final  battle ? therefore he shouldn?t  be able to during combat through his own efforts  - even though its obvious the circumstance would have been very different if he tried.

Lets list some facts:
Before DoBS
1. Aang was expecting fight Ozai without powers. FACT
2. Aang wasnt going to die during his training. FACT

Before Sozins Comet
1. Aang wasnt expecting to fight Ozai with COMET BOOSTED powers. FACT
2. Aang wasn?t going to die during his training. FACT

Point of ?rock? moment:
1. Aang was frying under Ozai?s COMET BOOSTED powers. FACT
2. Aang was getting stomped despite having t extra bending styles. FACT
3. Aang WAS going to die. FACT

Clearly different scenarios and important factors between Aang training and Aang getting stomped/killed.

Fun fact:  My tutor once said the amount of adrenaline pumping through your body while your sitting an exam can be equivalent to drinking 11 cups of coffee. Always found that as an interesting thought personally. 

*Also about the use probability in real life and fiction *

Yes, its been done in other fictions and it occurs in RL as well. But be honest people there are different levels of lucky and the way anything is handled in fiction counts too. 

E.g. I go to pay the fare for the bus but I dont have enough change in my wallet. What do I do? I reach into the side pocket of my backpack not having a clue what Ive left/got in there...i reach the bottom and find loose coins ? Bingo! Lucky am I right?  Reasonable, realistic right?

What are the odds of all the pillars in that area, in that one attack out of all Ozai?s attacks would launch Aang into that one structure from that certain angle that somehow recharges his AS...?? Yeah...its more realistic that Aang saves the day thanks to the probability akin to winning the jackpot in lottery. Yeah...very satisfying and authentic. [/sarcasm] 

As for the Gollum on the cliff edge. What are the odds that a crazy person wrestling with another, transfixed on a small object to the point of madness...along a cliff edge - could fall...? Pretty good I say. Not to mention it has the added theme of poetic justice...Gollum couldnt live without the ring and in his efforts in trying to keep it all to himself ? dies with it. Good use of probability handled well into the ending. I agree.

_But_ people thats not what happened in Avatar. Which is a shame since Avatar had strong themes about fate/destiny/ all things are connected/separation is an illusion...which wasn?t incorporated into that moment...what were are presented with was sheer, dumb luck. I actually said I would would approve of a lucky rock moment ? IF it handled better, which imo they didn?t. 



St. Burke said:


> Burke IMG count: 1
> WD IMG count: 3





St. Burke said:


> *60 episodes of dicking around, and aang was just given strength without training.*



Who the heck said this? 

Reading comprehension and actual argument along with image Burke count: 0
Reading comprehension and actual argument along with smilies WD count:  1



Narcissus said:


> Really didn't care about the rock being what reactivated Aang's AS. Besides, luck is pretty important in fiction, so much so that there are even charcters with the power to manipulate it.
> 
> If anything, shopwing luck makes things a bit more realistic.
> 
> If there is anything to criticize in the last fight, it was the energybending rather than the rock.



Well fair enough, thats good for you. You could even start a discussion about energybending if you want. Im sure there are many people here would say thats perfectly fine too.


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## Burke (Oct 25, 2011)

stop        .


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## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

Luck plays huge roles in the universe.

The Japanese were lucky that there was a typhoon once that destroyed the Mongol fleet. Otherwise the Mongols would have utterly have slaughtered the Samurai, it wouldn't have even been a fight.
Mark Kerr knocked himself out in a fight.
Jason Mayhem Miller knocked himself out in MMA
[Youtube]BkMLUodGB5U[/Youtube]
He's a professional fighter. 
I remember reading All Quiet on the Western Front. A man could stand in the middle of a field for 5 hours and not get hit. Or he could be blasted to smithereens while hiding in a reinforced steel bunker.


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## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

> As for the Gollum on the cliff edge. What are the odds that a crazy person wrestling with another, transfixed on a small object to the point of madness...along a cliff edge - could fall...? Pretty good I say. Not to mention it has the added theme of poetic justice...Gollum couldnt live without the ring and in his efforts in trying to keep it all to himself – dies with it. Good use of probability handled well into the ending. I agree.



I can easily reverse this around. Aang gave Ozai every opportunity to put an end to the madness. Ozai never listened and in his zeal he awakened Aang's power and sealed his own defeat.

See what I did there.


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

All different levels of lucky/unlucky...

All different odds in probability...

Does the chance of each case result in a satisfying conclusion?

Does this make Aang lucking out in the ending more satisfying to me? 

No. Not really.




DemonDragonJ said:


> victory through skill is more satisfactory and believable than victory through luck because it is the result of an aspect of the victor, over which they have complete control, rather than an aspect of the environment, over which they have less control. I myself believe that skill is always superior to luck, and therefore greatly dislike it when a person defeats a more skilled opponent through luck.



This. 

Luck victories can be alright - but only if its handled in an intriguing/clever way...


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## Glued (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm sure Jake Shields was pretty happy that Jason Miller knocked himself out in their fight.

And I'm pretty sure the crowds got a good laugh out of it.


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 25, 2011)

As long as no one starts claiming the rock wasnt DEM...


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## Burke (Oct 25, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Luck plays huge roles in the universe.
> 
> The Japanese were lucky that there was a typhoon once that destroyed the Mongol fleet. Otherwise the Mongols would have utterly have slaughtered the Samurai, it wouldn't have even been a fight.
> Mark Kerr knocked himself out in a fight.
> ...



And when the mongols came back. And then were destoyed by nature again.


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## Gunners (Oct 25, 2011)

I didn't really mind Aang energy bending as I saw it as a convenient way to keep things PG as opposed to the only way of him dealing with Ozai without taking his life. The moment he had him pinned down with the slabs of rock he could have damaged the ligaments in each of his joints and crushed his rib cage so he would have problems with breathing for the rest of his life. 

That would essentially make him useless as a firebender.


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## Furious George (Oct 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> *@ Furious George*
> 
> Im not proposing Aangs psychological resolution should forgo all his training and just get angry.* Im saying use all his mediation/training /experience before hand and focus it like a laser in a do or die scenario.* Reasonable I say. My idea is ALL about skill/experienced - focused into a scalpel edge. What happened with the rock was Aang blanking out - and going Hulk Smash...! DEM.



So you're proposing that it would have been better that Aang used all his training and focus to beat Ozai... y'know everything going exactly according to plan and the way you'd expect it to go if this wasn't meant to entertain people? Sort of gets in the way of conflict and tension when things are resolved like that.

Your support of DBZ antics is beginning to make more sense. 



> E.g. I go to pay the fare for the bus but I dont have enough change in my wallet. What do I do? I reach into the side pocket of my backpack not having a clue what Ive left/got in there...i reach the bottom and find loose coins – Bingo! Lucky am I right?  Reasonable, realistic right?
> 
> What are the odds of all the pillars in that area, in that one attack out of all Ozai’s attacks would launch Aang into that one structure from that certain angle that somehow recharges his AS...?? Yeah...its more realistic that Aang saves the day thanks to the probability akin to winning the jackpot in lottery. Yeah...very satisfying and authentic. [/sarcasm]
> 
> ...



Don't you think you're being a little silly here? Your whole point about what happened to Aang being too out-of-nowhere and random is sort of challenged by what you say in the very next paragraph! 

This series ALWAYS had strong undertones (you admit) regarding destiny and the connection of the universe and what not.... so, I ask you, why _wouldn't_ Aang "accidentally" falling into the rock that would reactivate the AS be considered an act of destiny or divine providence? 

Your points would sound much better if Aang was just some puffed up vigilante all by himself trying to take down Ozai because he's a meanie. But no, it was always much deeper then that. The universe itself had a personal investment in Aang's victory (balance and all that) so is it really that much of a stretch that the universe would send him aid to accomplish his goal in the way of freak accidents and lion turtles? Again, its hard to pin DEM on either event in my mind because this series has been very good about establishing random spiritual happenings and balance and destiny and things of that nature to the point that disbelief can be comfortably suspended. 

And as for it not being handled well... I don't know, it all made a lot of sense to me. The lightning strike disabling AS establishes that it is a state that involves physiology on some level. The rock itself was formed in a fashion much like a "plug".... more then a little snatches of symbolism can be taken from that. Most importantly though the rock made contact with the spinal area... possibly the most important part of the human body if we are dealing with the nervous system and reflexes and such. IF AS was possible you would imagine that, if it were a physical thing, it would definitely involve the spine.


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## Burke (Oct 26, 2011)

And really, the first thing you thought at the end of the finale should not have been "what a fucking cop out"


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## Waking Dreamer (Oct 26, 2011)

Furious George said:


> So you're proposing that it would have been better that Aang used all his training and focus to beat Ozai... y'know everything going exactly according to plan and the way you'd expect it to go if this wasn't meant to entertain people? Sort of gets in the way of conflict and tension when things are resolved like that.
> 
> Your support of DBZ antics is beginning to make more sense.



No, no you missed the point. Aang did try to use his mulit-bending skills to defeat Ozai...but it wasnt enough. There's your tension there, you get that right?

So whats Aang supposed to do while huddled in that dirt ball? Wait for deafeat/death? Though thats kinda what happened in the series didnt it...?

*PLAN B: My proposal* Try to activate the AS one last time...!! Why would that be cheesy? What else is he going to do? Anyone? 

Now with a focus he's never reached before (since any second now hes going to die right?) - _*Scene change_* Aang enters the introspective imagery of him traveling the broken chakra/path he walked up before to get his cosmic AS powers. He seeks/confronts his previous Avatar lives and they appear before him. Begin introspective speech of Aang seeking strength and pleading his past Avatar lives for their power. 

*Scene Change* Quick cut to Aang back in the real moment with struggling to keep his earth shield up. The rock is becoming bright hot.

*Scene change* Aang back in his mind just under the cosmic stars on the edge of the severed path to AS. He drops to his knees and places his hand on whats left of the path to unlocking AS.  He closes his eyes and concentrates...nothing happens...he concentrates some more - because thats the only thing left he can do. He tried and failed in besting Ozai  1vs1 without AS didnt he? Whats left? To die?

*Scene change* Ozai gloats blah, blah still frying the rock. The rock begins to falter. 

*Scene change* Aang inside his head still has his hands on the broken/faded path, everything is motionless...still motionless....

Then...a small spec of light dims slightly on the remnants of the faded path. 

*Scene change* Aangs earth shield begins to crumble...

*Scene change* etc. etc. From there you get the picture. 



> Don't you think you're being a little silly here?



Not at all.



> Your whole point about what happened to Aang being too out-of-nowhere and random is sort of challenged by what you say in the very next paragraph!
> 
> This series ALWAYS had strong undertones (you admit) regarding destiny and the connection of the universe and what not.... so, I ask you, why _wouldn't_ Aang "accidentally" falling into the rock that would reactivate the AS be considered an act of destiny or divine providence?



You're just going over now what I pointed out 3 pages ago. But I suggested they handled in a way so that its _clearly shown _that there is "possibly/probably" mysterious universal balance at work:



Waking Dreamer said:


> *You know I will actually buy the whole rock - AS connection* IF say the rock was actually an old Lion Turtle statue left in some ruins. Then there's a sense of some mysterious providence about it.
> 
> Like had there been some higher force to make the sculpturer/builder of the old temple/statue build that little area at the point in time - so that long into the future it would be part of some pivotal event.
> 
> Then you could emphasize the whole, "everything is connected" again. Not just in the current world but through time itself...



But unfortunately thats *not even hinted* in the canon scenario. So it doesnt seem Mike and Bryan aimed for the watchers to speculate at such. Hey, I think I was the first one to even make such a connection in this thread...but thats from thinking of how the rock scene could have handled better so...



> The universe itself had a personal investment in Aang's victory (balance and all that) so is it really that much of a stretch that the universe would send him aid to accomplish his goal in the way of freak accidents and lion turtles? Again, its hard to pin DEM on either event in my mind because this series has been very good about establishing random spiritual happenings and balance and destiny and things of that nature to the point that disbelief can be comfortably suspended.



DEM can be argued against if the scene/event in question (random rock) had hints linking to strong overall themes prominent in the intrinsic logic of Avatar. Again...there was no such thing at that moment. 

It was only presented as a lucky event. No divine work from whatever forces/spirits we have seen from Avatar was hinted. Do people here agree? If not, Id like to know hints in that scene made you think that... because I surely must have missed it.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 26, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> And really,* if the first thing you thought* at the end of the finale should not have been "what a fucking cop out"



What was that? Who said this again? 

Is there some sort of misunderstanding from a post again?


----------



## Burke (Oct 26, 2011)

Ill say     .


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 26, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Ill say     .



As long as it wasnt directed to me. Im assuming your post was just a general opinion.

Because I never said that the first thought that came to my mind in the finale was cop-out.

But Im sure you knew that right?


----------



## Burke (Oct 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> As long as it wasnt directed to me. Im assuming your post was just a general opinion.
> 
> Because I never said that the first thought that came to my mind in the finale was cop-out.
> 
> But Im sure you knew that right?



Surely, but of course, it was only after hours of analyzing various childrens cartoons that you came to said conclusion.


----------



## Furious George (Oct 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> You're just going over now what I pointed out 3 pages ago. But I suggested they handled in a way so that its _clearly shown _that there is "possibly/probably" mysterious universal balance at work:
> 
> 
> 
> But unfortunately thats *not even hinted* in the canon scenario. So it doesnt seem Mike and Bryan aimed for the watchers to speculate at such. Hey, I think I was the first one to even make such a connection in this thread...but thats from thinking of how the rock scene could have handled better so...



Okay now you are being silly whether you think so or not.  

Let us look to good ol' Zuko. 

He claims it was his destiny to teach Aang Firebending and restore honor to the Fire Nation... and he did just that. So here we have an example of destiny working in a person's life with no evidence or hints of it at all. 

I guess Mike and Bryan thought that they didn't have to spell out the fact that the universe kinda supports Aang with magical fish and face-stealing ghosts in every single frame of the series. At some point we should get it. 

If you want to question that we should also question Zuko, right?





> DEM can be argued against if the scene/event in question (random rock) had hints linking to strong overall themes prominent in the intrinsic logic of Avatar.



You mean like the ones I discussed in my last post saying that physical damage can, in fact, affect the release of the AS?... y'know, lightning?


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 26, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Surely, but of course, it was only after hours of analyzing various childrens cartoons that you came to said conclusion.



What that is was a DEM?

People have mentioned it in forums within the hour of seeing when it showed what 3, 4 years ago? They still enjoyed the finale at the time. Doesnt mean they had to pretend to be ignorant and not notice to enjoy it.


----------



## Wan (Oct 26, 2011)

You guys still on this?  I checked out of this discussion a while back.  I think I've finally learned to tell when discussions will ultimately go nowhere...


----------



## Burke (Oct 26, 2011)

Maybe im just a bit on edge after seeing the same argument come up for the 12th time in this single thread.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 26, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Okay now you are being silly whether you think so or not.



If you want to think that. 



> Let us look to good ol' Zuko.
> 
> He claims it was his destiny to teach Aang Firebending and restore honor to the Fire Nation... and he did just that. So here we have an example of destiny working in a person's life with no evidence or hints of it at all.



Zuko _explicitly_ says his actions are linked to the theme of destiny. Mike and Bryan *just told the audience* of the theme through Zuko's mouth.

You cant get anymore direct than that. 



> I guess Mike and Bryan thought that they didn't have to spell out the fact that the universe kinda supports Aang with magical fish and face-stealing ghosts in every single frame of the series.



Really? Because the posters here were trying to say that Rock moment was _meant_ to be "random" weren't they?

But your saying its _clearly_ "destiny" now?



> At some point we should get it. If you want to question that we should also question Zuko, right?



Aang connected to the Spiritworld is brought up in season 1 as well as connections to destiny. So why does Zuko still have to _tell _the audience the theme of destiny in the middle of season 3? Shouldnt we've got it by this point...? 

Mike and Bryan are still presenting you with _clear_ links to destiny events in season 3. So if they want a scene to link to legacy/destiny/"meant to be" moments...its usually in your face even at the end of season 3.



> You mean like the ones I discussed in my last post saying that physical damage can, in fact, affect the release of the AS?... y'know, lightning?



And I said the rock trigger wasnt my main issue. I said that I could accept that if the other things around it were more theme linked.

What Im talking about is handling it in a way so that the rock that _possibly_ could affect releasing AS is* shown to not be* a random placement at a convenient time.

And did anyone before me suggest that the balance of the world helped in placing Aang and the rock at the right place - at the right time when I asked at the very beginning?

All I recall were non-responses or, "the rock was there because it was there?" (not that there was anything wrong with putting that idea forward. Honestly, that just goes to show how little Mike and Bryan gave us to work with.)

So, obviously Mike and Bryan were a little too subtle more non-existent in presenting the theme of the "destined rock" because iirc no one here mentioned it when I asked...


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 26, 2011)

Oman said:


> You guys still on this?  I checked out of this discussion a while back.  I think I've finally learned to tell when discussions will ultimately go nowhere...



As long as no one claims Im trolling..its all good!  

For the benefit of everyone I took the time to explain my reasoning quite thoroughly. 

Its not like I posted short, one liners or non-contributing posts or anything...

Ive said a fair amount. Im good for now...


----------



## Burke (Oct 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> As long as no one claims Im trolling is all good!
> 
> For the benefit of everyone *I took the time to explain my reasoning quite thoroughly. *
> Its not like I posted short, one liners or non-contributing posts or anything...
> ...



why
**


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Oct 26, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> why             .



Short posts are usually considered trollish.


----------



## Burke (Oct 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Short posts are usually considered trollish.



i edited my post
**


----------



## Glued (Oct 26, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> And when the mongols came back. And then were destoyed by nature again.



That is the hilarious part, even though the Japanese were more successful against the mongols in the second invasion. Making heavier katanas to cut through armor, learning how to use mass attack. The Mongol fleet was again destroyed by a random typhoon.


----------



## Glued (Oct 26, 2011)

Hey guys under Sozin's comet, wouldn't combustion man's fire attack become even stronger?


----------



## MunchKing (Oct 26, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> And really, the first thing you thought at the end of the finale should not have been "what a fucking cop out"



I was like 

 

"That's so beautiful. This part of their journey is over and I'm never going to see those wonderful characters again."



Ben Grimm said:


> Hey guys under Sozin's comet, wouldn't combustion man's fire attack become even stronger?



I suppose. He might just blow himself up again.


----------



## Koraan Wraithwaters (Oct 26, 2011)

i became instantly "awww" when Avatar ended. it also left open questions not yet answered

Where is Zuko's mother?

What will happen to Azula?

How are the Air Nomads ever going to recover?

Now Legend of Korra (confused as to the spelling of this) opens a whole new book...nuts


----------



## Furious George (Oct 26, 2011)

Oman said:


> You guys still on this?  I checked out of this discussion a while back.  I think I've finally learned to tell when discussions will ultimately go nowhere...



Nah I picked up on that a while ago. I just like getting my points across.



Waking Dreamer said:


> As long as no one claims Im trolling..its all good!
> 
> For the benefit of everyone I took the time to explain my reasoning quite thoroughly.
> 
> ...



Nah, don't think anyone thinks you're trolling. You raise good points. 

I do think your reasoning is a little flawed but you don't seem like you'll change your mind any time soon so... 


Anyway, I've seen arguments end worse.


----------



## Narcissus (Oct 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Well fair enough, thats good for you. You could even start a discussion about energybending if you want. Im sure there are many people here would say thats perfectly fine too.


I have no reason to start a conversation on that though. I was pointing out how the rock wasn't that serious of a criticism, especially since luck plays an important role in fiction. The rock didn't take anything away from the final battle.


Gunners said:


> I didn't really mind Aang energy bending as I saw it as a convenient way to keep things PG as opposed to the only way of him dealing with Ozai without taking his life.


Yeah, I'm not even that critical of the energybending myself, though I can understand peoples' complaints about it. But it delivered Ozai a more fitting punishment.


Waking Dreamer said:


> Short posts are usually considered trollish.


It's not the length, but the content. People can write essays that say a lot of nothing, while short replies can simply be getting to the point. It works the other way around too.

That Juro clown, for example.


----------



## Burke (Oct 26, 2011)

Furious George said:


> I do think your reasoning is a little flawed but you don't seem like you'll change your mind any time soon so...
> 
> 
> Anyway, I've seen arguments end worse.



WD: *inserts 4 page essay questioning why you think his reasoning is flawed*


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 26, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hey guys under Sozin's comet, wouldn't combustion man's fire attack become even stronger?



Yes, I see no reason to believe otherwise.



Narcissus said:


> Yeah, I'm not even that critical of the energybending myself, though I can understand peoples' complaints about it. But it delivered Ozai a more fitting punishment.



So, you also believe that being left alive and powerless was a better fate than death for Ozai? Why do you have such a belief? Am I the only user on this entire forum who believes that it is better to die with dignity than to live in shame and powerlessness (see also my posts in the _Song of Ice and Fire_ thread for more of my opinion on this subject)?


----------



## Furious George (Oct 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> So, you also believe that being left alive and powerless was a better fate than death for Ozai? Why do you have such a belief? Am I the only user on this entire forum who believes that it is better to die with dignity than to live in shame and powerlessness (see also my posts in the _Song of Ice and Fire_ thread for more of my opinion on this subject)?



Now he has a chance to redeem himself though and stop being so evil? (Zuko's words)


----------



## Stunna (Oct 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> So, you also believe that being left alive and powerless was a better fate than death for Ozai? Why do you have such a belief? Am I the only user on this entire forum who believes that it is better to die with dignity than to live in shame and powerlessness (see also my posts in the _Song of Ice and Fire_ thread for more of my opinion on this subject)?


He deserved no such dignity.


----------



## Jena (Oct 26, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> So, you also believe that being left alive and powerless was a better fate than death for Ozai? Why do you have such a belief? Am I the only user on this entire forum who believes that it is better to die with dignity than to live in shame and powerlessness (see also my posts in the _Song of Ice and Fire_ thread for more of my opinion on this subject)?



No, it is better to die with dignity.
But, like Stunna said, Ozai didn't deserve that. 
He controlled the world with an iron fist and tried to suppress any bending that wasn't firebending. The irony now is that he is the one imprisoned and with no ability to bend.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 26, 2011)

Jena said:


> No, it is better to die with dignity.
> But, like Stunna said, Ozai didn't deserve that.
> He controlled the world with an iron fist and tried to suppress any bending that wasn't firebending. The irony now is that he is the one imprisoned and with no ability to bend.



Yes, I can see the irony, but I still believe that the more epic and threatening a villain is to the story, the more epic and magnificent their defeat should be, and that they should die at the height of their power, and not live to see themselves become weak and powerless. As a side note, if I ever write my own stories, I shall always give any character who suffers defeat a spectacular downfall, with no chance of them living in shame or powerlessness.


----------



## Wan (Oct 26, 2011)

Dignity should have been allowed to Ozai if he allowed dignity to others.  He didn't.  He had his father assassinated, let his wife shoulder the consequences, usurped the throne from his brother while he was still mourning, and scarred and banished his son for speaking out of turn.  He gave no dignity to others, so no dignity should be given to him.

Ozai lived his life in pursuit of power.  For any villain, the most fitting defeat they can be given is the stripping away of all that they pursued.  For Ozai, he was stripped of his power, both political and magical, and left to sulk in a prison cell.  I should note that while the most fitting fate can often be something other than death, it just as often involves death. For Rugen from the Princess Bride, it was being slain with the very sword he commissioned.  For Voldemort from Harry Potter, it was finally facing death after trying as much as possible to gain immortality.  For Sauron in Lord of the Rings, the very Ring he created to give himself power was the very way he was destroyed.  For the Emperor in Star Wars, it was being betrayed by his apprentice even as he sought to turn another to the Dark Side.  For Father from Fullmetal Alchemist, it was being sent back into the Gate, absorbed into the oblivion and despair of the Truth he had tried to control for himself.  I could go on, but I think you get the point.


----------



## Shade (Oct 26, 2011)

Koraan Wraithwaters said:


> i became instantly "awww" when Avatar ended. it also left open questions not yet answered
> 
> Where is Zuko's mother?
> 
> ...



Interesting you should mention this. Aaron Ehasz is coming to UC Berkley to answers questions about the show, and 's going to be there. He wants some quality questions so help him out.


----------



## Wan (Oct 26, 2011)

Is Aaron Ehasz even involved with Legend of Korra?  I certainly hope so, but I haven't seen him mentioned and he hasn't made any appearances.  Not one for cons, maybe?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Oct 27, 2011)

Oman said:


> Dignity should have been allowed to Ozai if he allowed dignity to others.  He didn't.  He had his father assassinated, let his wife shoulder the consequences, usurped the throne from his brother while he was still mourning, and scarred and banished his son for speaking out of turn.  He gave no dignity to others, so no dignity should be given to him.
> 
> Ozai lived his life in pursuit of power.  For any villain, the most fitting defeat they can be given is the stripping away of all that they pursued.  For Ozai, he was stripped of his power, both political and magical, and left to sulk in a prison cell.  I should note that while the most fitting fate can often being something other than death, it just as often involves death. For Rugen from the Princess Bride, it was being slain with the very sword he commissioned.  For Voldemort from Harry Potter, it was finally facing death after trying as much as possible to gain immortality.  For Sauron in Lord of the Rings, the very Ring he created to give himself power was the very way he was destroyed.  For the Emperor in Star Wars, it was being betrayed by his apprentice even as he sought to turn another to the Dark Side.  For Father from Fullmetal Alchemist, it was being sent back into the Gate, absorbed into the oblivion and despair of the Truth he had tried to control for himself.  I could go on, but I think you get the point.



I cannot disagree with that; that is a most excellently-argued and well-written post, and I shall definitely give you +rep for it.


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 27, 2011)

Oman said:


> Is Aaron Ehasz even involved with Legend of Korra?  I certainly hope so, but I haven't seen him mentioned and he hasn't made any appearances.  Not one for cons, maybe?



No, it seems like he's sticking with Futurama. There is no writing staff to be head of on Korra, it's all riding on M&B. Bryan delegated character design duties to Ryu Ki Hyun. The only person I know who is leaving a gig to work on the new show is Lauren Montgomery who's been directing and storyboarding the DC animated universe DTV's.


----------



## Jena (Oct 27, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I cannot disagree with that; that is a most excellently-argued and well-written post, and I shall definitely give you +rep for it.



For some reason I'm getting a King Arthur vibe from this.



"For a remarkable argument and a gallant heart, I bestow upon thee reputation."​

...I'm in a weird mood today.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 28, 2011)

The Track Team's Facebook Page said:
			
		

> The Track Team
> studying early jazz arrangements...


----------



## MossMan (Oct 28, 2011)

I just jumped on the Avatar: TLA bandwagon a few days ago, I saw the whole series from start to finish on Netflix.

I was kinda lukewarm about the series while it was airing on Nickelodeon back in the day, but watching the episodes now, and seeing the whole story play out...it's an incredible show.  I'm very glad to finally see for myself what all the fuss is about.

It's difficult to find that balance between comedy, action, drama, and romance, but the series pulls it off so well, which is all the more impressive considering all the constraints the creators had to work with, being a children's animated show on network TV.  I really felt connected to each of the characters, and it was cool how everyone had their own role to play.  The jokes and one-liners were pulled off really well, and the humor never felt too forced or out of place, even during the serious parts.  (I especially like Toph, her cheeky attitude was one of my favorite parts of Book 2.)

Anyway, I'm eager to see how the new series lives up to it's predecessor.


----------



## Wan (Oct 28, 2011)

^^Welcome!  Glad you enjoyed the show. 

And Jove...do you like jazz?


----------



## Burke (Oct 29, 2011)

.



Oman said:


> ^^Welcome!  Glad you enjoyed the show.
> 
> And Jove...do you like jazz?



No ya dummy, hes just excited about track team talking of working on korra.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Oct 29, 2011)

Oman said:


> ^^Welcome!  Glad you enjoyed the show.
> 
> And Jove...do you like jazz?



I'm the music mod.


----------



## Quaero (Oct 30, 2011)

> *The Track Team:* been diving into some king oliver. good stuff...



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-HJI464CVs[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Superstarseven (Oct 31, 2011)

Goshdamn, I was just about to link to that very same video.
Reminds me of the music you'd sometimes hear in those ancient rubber hose animation shorts.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm gone for a week and this thread drops to page 3...


I would suggest everyone to listen to the music underneath the early scene in The Headband. I've always cited that as the most glaring instance of jazz influence on the Avatar score.


----------



## Wan (Nov 6, 2011)

You mean this?












Yeah, it's pretty good, especially when Aang and Katara are dancing.  Best Kataang moment in the show, IMO.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> You mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not that one. The music from the early scene when they integrate into the marketplace. It's not online, you have to watch it to hear it. It goes from 4:57 to 5:30.


----------



## Wan (Nov 6, 2011)

Oh, so the part where Aang's all, "Hotman" to passersby?  The track playing in the background there feels more understated.  I can see how it's jazz influenced, but it's kind of subtle.  I'm pretty sure that track has been used elsewhere in the series.


----------



## Furious George (Nov 9, 2011)

Oman said:


> Yeah, it's pretty good, especially when Aang and Katara are dancing.  Best Kataang moment in the show, IMO.



I love the way that one random guy completely loses it to the music in that episode.  

Avatar is the one series where I actually enjoy fan service scenes just as much as I enjoy the action/dramatic scenes.


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2011)

That may have to do with the fact that the fanservice scenes are made with American/Western audiences in mind, rather than Japanese...


----------



## Bringer (Nov 10, 2011)

No offense if the Japanese made avatar katara and toph will be useless and will always have to be saved.

Sorry I seen a handful of Japanese anime where girls are useless and have to get saved


----------



## Burke (Nov 10, 2011)

BringerOfChaos said:


> No offense if the Japanese made avatar katara and toph will be useless and will always have to be saved.
> 
> Sorry I seen *naruto*



Fixed       .


----------



## Bringer (Nov 10, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Fixed       .



You know me so well

But I will admit im not lying. My friends told me most anime have useless females. But something I should have said is that my friends said they start off week and then 2-3 seasons later they get as strong as the males.

I dont wanna have 2 seasons of females being useless.


----------



## Quaero (Nov 10, 2011)

It begins...


----------



## Burke (Nov 10, 2011)

Whatamilookingat.jpg


----------



## Jena (Nov 10, 2011)

Quaero said:


> It begins...



Aww, who _couldn't_ ship them? Look at the pure loathing in her eyes. This is a man she clearly wants to have sex with.


----------



## Quaero (Nov 10, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Whatamilookingat.jpg



Jess has a gay friend, tells it like it is


----------



## Burke (Nov 10, 2011)

id be doubtful if it werent for the fact that thats definetly the face of dark horse zuko


----------



## Quaero (Nov 10, 2011)

> Aang and Katara are together, and call each other sweetie



I think I just got diabetes...


----------



## Jena (Nov 10, 2011)

Quaero said:


> I think I just got diabetes...



Oh no, they're not going to start wearing matching outfits now are they?


----------



## Quaero (Nov 10, 2011)

Here, have a little something I colored while I was bored.


----------



## Wan (Nov 10, 2011)

BringerOfChaos said:


> No offense if the Japanese made avatar katara and toph will be useless and will always have to be saved.
> 
> Sorry I seen a handful of Japanese anime where girls are useless and have to get saved


----------



## G. Hawke (Nov 10, 2011)

....I am sorry, but this post just fucking wins.

FUCKING WINS.


----------



## Jena (Nov 10, 2011)

In this case, Oman, I think that FMA would be an exception to the rule. 
I've noticed women being docile and/or taking the backseat in a lot of manga/anime.

I fucking love FMA so much.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 10, 2011)

BringerOfChaos said:


> No offense if the Japanese made avatar katara and toph will be useless and will always have to be saved.
> 
> Sorry I seen a handful of Japanese anime where girls are useless and have to get saved





BringerOfChaos said:


> You know me so well
> 
> But I will admit im not lying. My friends told me most anime have useless females. But something I should have said is that my friends said they start off week and then 2-3 seasons later they get as strong as the males.
> 
> I dont wanna have 2 seasons of females being useless.



I suggest that you read or watch _Bleach, One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, D.Gray-Man, Tenchi Muyo,_ and/or _Claymore;_ I am following or have followed all those series, apart from _Claymore,_ and all of them feature female characters who I find to be strong both as fighters and in terms of personality for the entire duration of the series.


That is a most interesting image, but without the proper context, there is no way to know what exactly is occurring within it, which, of course, shall lead to a great amount of speculation by the fans, but I believe that Zuko in that image is stopping Katara from behaving impulsively and irrationally, which she did do in the canonical television series, so it is likely best to wait until for details about that story are revealed before any speculation is made.



Jena said:


> Oh no, they're not going to start wearing matching outfits now are they?



What is wrong with wearing matching clothing?


----------



## masterriku (Nov 10, 2011)

Yep first thing that came to mind is near the end Zuko seemed like he had become the most reasonable member of team Avatar so he is probably stopping her from doing anything stupid.


----------



## Burke (Nov 11, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is wrong with wearing matching clothing?



Two things, one, stop it-


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 11, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Two things, one, stop it-





What does that mean?


----------



## Quaero (Nov 11, 2011)

Enjoy.


----------



## Burke (Nov 11, 2011)

My god, they werent kidding when they said RIGHT after the show left off.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 11, 2011)

Someone always ruins the most dramatic of moments; that is so very annoying, is it not?



St. Burke said:


> My god, they werent kidding when they said RIGHT after the show left off.



Forgive me for asking, but to what are you referring?


----------



## Wan (Nov 11, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Enjoy.



They were about to...what?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 11, 2011)

Oman said:


> They were about to...what?



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Burke (Nov 11, 2011)

The description of the comic that was available stated that it will pick up right where ATLA left off.
And damn were they right


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 11, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> The description of the comic that was available stated that it will pick up right where ATLA left off.
> And damn were they right



Yes, now I understand; thank you very much.


----------



## Wan (Nov 11, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> My thoughts exactly.



Out of context quotes are so fun.


----------



## G. Hawke (Nov 11, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is wrong with wearing matching clothing?



It's fucking creepy, that's what.

I have been in relationship for near 5 years and I swear if I was ever stupid enough to suggest such madness, my fiancee would have either smacked me over head, or think me mad.

Matching clothes, bah.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 11, 2011)

I went to the Avatar Spirit forums to see how they're reacting and someone has been communicating with the person who posted those images. She had this to say - 



> A bit of a spoiler, but the main plot revolves around Zuko, Aang and Kuei working together to try to rid the Earth Kingdom of the Fire Nation colonies. A lot of the tension actually happens between Aang and Zuko, if that makes it any more intriguing for you.



Kuei is the Earth King for those that don't know.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 11, 2011)

Gene Yang visited a library to discuss comics, Asian-americans and The Promise. 
This is from an e-mail exchange with someone right after.



> The book picks up immediately after the last episode of the series (and I mean IMMEDIATELY, like the moment after). However, after a few pages the story jumps forward a year. That's why everybody's clothes change. Also (I shared this already in an interview), *the comic book shows the rest of the Zuko-Ozai conversation about Zuko's mom*.



I would love for the constant bitching about where Zuko's mom is to end but I just know that there are so many fans of the show who -
A) Don't know about this comic series 
B) Will continue not to know unless they actually do some homework

By the time Korra starts airing you'll still hear complaints about how A:TLA didn't resolve the Zuko's mom issue.


----------



## Wan (Nov 11, 2011)

The Promise will probably end with Republic City be founded, appropriately setting up Legend of Korra.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 11, 2011)

G. Hawke said:


> It's fucking creepy, that's what.
> 
> I have been in relationship for near 5 years and I swear if I was ever stupid enough to suggest such madness, my fiancee would have either smacked me over head, or think me mad.
> 
> Matching clothes, bah.



Very well; I can understand your opinion on this subject, and I hope that you also can accept that some people may not have any problem with such a practice.



Oman said:


> The Promise will probably end with Republic City be founded, appropriately setting up Legend of Korra.



That seems to be a good idea to me, but what is the "promise" mentioned in the title of this new work?

Also, while I do hope to that the mystery of Ursa's fate is solved, I also feel worried that the aura of mystery and suspense surrounding that subject shall also vanish, as there shall no longer be any need to wonder about what happened to her. Will anyone else here miss the mystery of Ursa's fate if it is ultimately revealed?


----------



## Burke (Nov 11, 2011)

Perhaps the promise to reform the world for the better, and create a more unified fire nation, and thus a more unified world?


----------



## Wan (Nov 11, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> Unlikely and unwelcome, since there will be more comics besides this one.



I don't mean the single comic coming out in January, I mean the series of comics that the January issue is the first installment of.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 11, 2011)

How long til those scans?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 11, 2011)

There will be no scans, you can only get it by purchasing it.


----------



## Burke (Nov 12, 2011)

Ms. Jove said:


> You will buy a copy when it comes out, young man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes daddy


----------



## Time Expired (Nov 12, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Enjoy.



Oh - me likey. Dat's pretty good artwork; it has a nice feel to it. 



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> There will be no scans, you can only get it by purchasing it.



Valiant effort; however, he's only one in a multitude.  

I think there will be plenty of people buying this.


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 12, 2011)

Has Korra legend come out yet?


----------



## Wan (Nov 12, 2011)

Nope, not until mid 2012 at least.


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Nov 12, 2011)

Did someone scan the comics yet?


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 12, 2011)

I know this is community is essentially based around a scanned comic book from another country--but I'm sure it won't kill any of us to spend the equivalent of a restaurant lunch on an American comic that will be available in January everywhere.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 13, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> I know this is community is essentially based around a scanned comic book from another country--but I'm sure it won't kill any of us to spend the equivalent of a restaurant lunch on an American comic that will be available in January everywhere.



I completely agree with your opinion on this subject, but one must never underestimate or make presumptions about the mentality of the fans of this series and/or internet users; some people do not enjoy spending money when they can avoid doing so, which is why fan-translations are so very prevalent, so I imagine that at least some users here would prefer to be able to read the comic online free of monetary charge.


----------



## Wan (Nov 13, 2011)

And I would prefer to walk out of a car dealership with a car free of charge.  Doesn't mean I can do it.


----------



## Jena (Nov 13, 2011)

I found some cool wallpapers online that I thought I'd share.

Sorry the earth one is so much smaller than the others...I don't know why that is.


*Spoiler*: _Water_ 










*Spoiler*: _Fire_ 









*Spoiler*: _Earth_ 









*Spoiler*: _Air_


----------



## Shade (Nov 13, 2011)

Those are pretty cool, thanks for sharing.

In fact, if you guys have ATLA wallpaper collections, I'd love to see them.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 13, 2011)

Oman said:


> And I would prefer to walk out of a car dealership with a car free of charge.  Doesn't mean I can do it.



First, you actually can take a vehicle free of charge from a dealership, but the likelihood of you succeeding in doing so without facing legal consequences is highly variable, depending upon the method that you use, the level of security at the dealership, and the model of car in question.

Second, I agree with your viewpoint, but that situation is very different from this situation. A vehicle is a physical object, and therefore usually very difficult to steal, while an episode of a television series or an image from a graphic novel can be converted into digital form and therefore replicated and distributed quickly and easily, which is why digital file-sharing is so prevalent currently.


----------



## Quaero (Nov 13, 2011)

Here is a ton of wallpapers. 

Jess has a gay friend, tells it like it is

A sample.


----------



## Pseudo (Nov 13, 2011)

Nice wallpapers guys!


----------



## Wan (Nov 13, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, you actually can take a vehicle free of charge from a dealership, but the likelihood of you succeeding in doing so without facing legal consequences is highly variable, depending upon the method that you use, the level of security at the dealership, and the model of car in question.
> 
> Second, I agree with your viewpoint, but that situation is very different from this situation. A vehicle is a physical object, and therefore usually very difficult to steal, while an episode of a television series or an image from a graphic novel can be converted into digital form and therefore replicated and distributed quickly and easily, which is why digital file-sharing is so prevalent currently.



My point is that just because you prefer to obtain it one way doesn't make it ok to do so.


----------



## Burke (Nov 13, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> Nice wallpapers guys!



nice set


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 14, 2011)

Wow! Some amazing wallpapers in here! I really love the air, water and earth one! Shame the earth wallpaper was small though. 

I rewatched the trailer yesterday. Made me want to watch even more. xD


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 14, 2011)

*!*

Jess has a gay friend, tells it like it is

Preview images!!!*  SPOILERS AHOY!

*this is no way endorses the idea of getting this comic from online scans.  When it comes out in it's entirety, you will buy it.  _You will buy it!_


----------



## Wang Fire (Nov 14, 2011)

that last panel


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm in. I'm totally in.

I hated the criticism that the finale seeminlgy wrapped everything up so nicely in a bow because we didn't see what happened after the war. I think this comic should shut those people up.


----------



## Noah (Nov 15, 2011)

Man. I really hope shit escalates in the comics, and then Katara has a dream about bloodbending Mai to death.

I would lol so hard.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Nov 15, 2011)

"sweetie... sweetie... sweetie... sweetie... sweetie... sweetie... sweetie"



Off to Capslock Zutara!


----------



## Burke (Nov 15, 2011)

I dont mind, makes me jealous really 

I ship toph with the emo earth bender


----------



## Wan (Nov 15, 2011)

Gah.  I feel like a hypocrite now.  Read the whole thing..but there's bits and pieces missing.  I'm definitely going to still buy it on release day.

So _that's_ the "Promise".  Good to see that the graphic novel is keeping the subject matter serious, and the themes from Sozin's Comet are playing right into it.

And Zuko...just   Will that boy ever get his head on straight and keep it that way?


----------



## Glued (Nov 15, 2011)

Zuko should have just put that colonist in jail for treason than proceeded to disband the colonies.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 15, 2011)

The whole time I was skimming this, my inner fanboy was screaming "I don't care about these minor tertiary characters like Aang and Zuko, what's happening with Azula!"


----------



## Quaero (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm officially hyped.


----------



## Glued (Nov 15, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> The whole time I was skimming this, my inner fanboy was screaming "I don't care about these minor tertiary characters like Aang and Zuko, what's happening with Azula!"



Don't worry, she's probably in a nice rooom thats all white wearing a straight jacket.


----------



## Quaero (Nov 15, 2011)




----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Nov 15, 2011)

Vino said:


> Did someone scan the comics yet?



???????????????????????


----------



## Platinum (Nov 15, 2011)

Still not out yet I think.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 15, 2011)

Oman said:


> My point is that just because you prefer to obtain it one way doesn't make it ok to do so.



Again, I shall agree with you, and again, I shall say that some people do not care about what is "right" or wrong;" furthermore, this thread is not the proper place to discuss such subjects, so I would prefer to not discuss it any further.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> This was the source from the tumblr post
> 
> Preview images!!!*  SPOILERS AHOY!
> 
> *this is no way endorses the idea of getting this comic from online scans.  When it comes out in it's entirety, you will buy it. _You will buy it!_



First, I shall say that you do not have any authority to dictate to other members of this forum how they shall obtain this comic. If you wish to purchase it, you may do so, but please do not force others to do the same.

Second, those are indeed very awesome images, and I am now very excited about this new comic. I see that Ty Lee is now comfortably a member of the Kyoshi Warriors, although it was very odd that she and Mai never even spoke to each other. Toph has decided to teach other earthbenders to bend metal, which likely is the origin of the metalbenders who shall appear in _The Legend of Korra._ I am glad that this comic shall address the issue of the aftermath of the war, as it would be unrealistic for its wounds to be healed quickly or easily. I was rather displeased that Sokka was so disturbed over Aang and Katara being romantic, when he himself is romantically involved with Suki, and Toph licking Katara's hand makes me wonder if Toph secretly is attracted to Katara (I know that that is not likely, but I certainly am allowed to use my imagination, am I not?)? The most interesting image of all was the final image, and I, also was very surprised by it; why was Zuko seeking advice from Ozai, and not Iroh, as he had always done before? That is a very out-of-character action for him to take, so I do hope that an explanation is give for his unusual behavior. I also wonder if this comic shall address the subjects of Ursa's fate and Azula's current status?

So, is there an exact release date for this comic, and where shall it be available for purchase, in the case that I decide to purchase it?


----------



## Gunners (Nov 15, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 




Him taking advice from his father makes sense given the situation. And Aang overreacted when Zuko grabbed Katara, she would have killed that Firebender.


----------



## Burke (Nov 15, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Again, I shall agree with you, and again, I shall say that some people do not care about what is "right" or wrong;" furthermore, this thread is not the proper place to discuss such subjects, so I would prefer to not discuss it any further.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh come on DDJ, youre a really smart person, obviously, but it doesnt take a genius to see that he wasnt seriously making a forceful demand.


----------



## Pseudo (Nov 15, 2011)

:sadzutarafangirl


----------



## Gunners (Nov 15, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 




One thing I like about the comic is are the continued parallels between Zuko and Aang. Both of them when faced with problems asked the people who preceded them for advice.


----------



## Quaero (Nov 15, 2011)

Gunners said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



"He just wants to talk" doesn't sound like something you'd say right before killing someone





Gunners said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



And I don't think asking your genocidal Dad for advice is a good idea...


----------



## Gunners (Nov 15, 2011)

Quaero said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> "He just wants to talk" doesn't sound like something you'd say right before killing someone


Huh? 



> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't think asking your genocidal Dad for advice is a good idea...



*Spoiler*: __ 



 I didn't say it was a good idea but given in the circumstances it is understandable. By the looks of things he can't get a good night sleep because he is worried about people trying to kill him. He doesn't know how to strike the balance between ensuring his nations prosperity and restoring the Fire Nations honor.


----------



## Glued (Nov 15, 2011)

Not being able to sleep is hardly a good excuse.

Is there really no one else in the world that could advise Zuko other than Ozai?


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 15, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Preview images!!!*  SPOILERS AHOY!
> 
> *this is no way endorses the idea of getting this comic from online scans.  When it comes out in it's entirety, you will buy it.  _You will buy it!_



What...in the world is that? Is that official? Oh man I'm out of the loop.


----------



## Wan (Nov 16, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Not being able to sleep is hardly a good excuse.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Could you keep that in spoiler tags, please?  Y'know, for those who don't want to read the preview?

Anyways


*Spoiler*: __ 



Indeed.  Where the hell is Iroh?


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Nov 16, 2011)

Oman said:


> Could you keep that in spoiler tags, please?  Y'know, for those who don't want to read the preview?
> 
> Anyways
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



 In Ba Sing Se, which is ever so slightly on the other side of the planet.  If he was desperate (which he obviously is if he's going to Ozai), I don't think he wants to wait the weeks, if not months, it would take to send and receive a letter from him.


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 16, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> What...in the world is that? Is that official? Oh man I'm out of the loop.



*Really* out the loop.
The comic has been talked about numerous times since the first announcement.

Remember guys, if some of your favorite characters are missing from this first issue--there are 2 more to go that feature this particular story arc.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 16, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Oh come on DDJ, youre a really smart person, obviously, but it doesnt take a genius to see that he wasnt seriously making a forceful demand.



Yes, I know that, but I always am very serious about nearly everything, so I took Stab-o-Tron's post very seriously.

I also am rather disappointed that this comic appears to be set immediately after the series, as the characters are still the same age that they were in the series. I was hoping to see them as adults, as they are all deceased by the time of _Legend of Korra;_ and even their children (Tenzin and Chief Bei Fong) are very old. Why are their no main characters in their early twenties in this series?


----------



## Burke (Nov 16, 2011)

The promise is just a one year skip for the most part, and is split up into multiple issues. When other chapers come, they will most likely depict the gaang in later years due to the fact that it was said that this comic picks up right after ATLA, and leads directly into Korra. 

So yes, we will see them older.


----------



## Judas (Nov 16, 2011)

So what's going on with Avatar? Haven't been keeping track of  any signs of continuity for over a year.


----------



## Burke (Nov 16, 2011)

atleast read the last two pages of a thread before psoting like that


----------



## Judas (Nov 16, 2011)

Posting like a person who doesn't what the fuck is going on with this comic series?

At least provide a damn link that I can follow pertaining to the details behind this comic, and it's long as shit to sift through pages on a psp.


----------



## Burke (Nov 16, 2011)

Ill send you links despite your attitude 

Link 
jk youre rude


----------



## Dimezanime88 (Nov 16, 2011)

Wow, glad to see this thread still alive and well. Can't wait for Korra! Speaking of that, check out what I did:


----------



## Wan (Nov 16, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> In Ba Sing Se, which is ever so slightly on the other side of the planet.  If he was desperate (which he obviously is if he's going to Ozai), I don't think he wants to wait the weeks, if not months, it would take to send and receive a letter from him.




*Spoiler*: __ 



He went to and came back from a colony in the Earth Kingdom already.  Probably by using an airship.  If he can do that, he should have time to go to Ba Sing Se to meet Iroh if it's really important.






Dimezanime88 said:


> Wow, glad to see this thread still alive and well. Can't wait for Korra! Speaking of that, check out what I did:



You're the OP of the original Avatar thread in Konoha Theatre, aren't you?  Cool beans.  Anyways, this thread has actually been more active than the FC.  We got to 2000 pages before the thread page count crackdown.


----------



## Burke (Nov 16, 2011)

Dimezanime88 said:


> Wow, glad to see this thread still alive and well. Can't wait for Korra! Speaking of that, check out what I did:



Its the founder! All hail the founder!

Pretty good, wish i had a drawing program, but ill get something out twice as awesome come january :ho


----------



## Jena (Nov 16, 2011)

Dimezanime88 said:


> Wow, glad to see this thread still alive and well. Can't wait for Korra! Speaking of that, check out what I did:



Awesome job!


----------



## Dimezanime88 (Nov 17, 2011)

Lmao "the founder". It's been so long that I thought this was the same thread that I created, but apparently that got closed. Oh well, still great times. Once Korra starts, I'll be fully active again in the discussions.


----------



## Burke (Nov 17, 2011)

yes 'the founder', now of course, Jove is titled the leader 
and im like what, assistant treasurer? or something.


----------



## Wan (Nov 17, 2011)

No no, Jove is Avatar Joveku.  Terra Branford is the Earth Queen.  Reikai Demon is the Fire Lord.  St. Burke, you're the Chief of the Water Tribes.  DemonDragonJ is the Grand Monk...or whatever the leader of the Air Nomads was called.  Dimezanime88 is the Lion Turtle for being around since the beginning.


----------



## Glued (Nov 17, 2011)

Oman said:


> No no, Jove is Avatar Joveku.  Terra Branford is the Earth Queen.  Reikai Demon is the Fire Lord.  St. Burke, you're the Chief of the Water Tribes.  DemonDragonJ is the Grand Monk...or whatever the leader of the Air Nomads was called.  Dimezanime88 is the Lion Turtle for being around since the beginning.



All of you combined get your butts kicked by Combustion Man.


----------



## Glued (Nov 17, 2011)

Facts about Combustion Man.

Combustion Man does not lose, he exploded from being awesome
The universe began when Combustion Man took his first Breath
This is known as the Big Bang
Combustion Man doesn't need to bend, he just plows through
Combustion Man doesn't need martial arts, he slaps you aside like Zuko
You got a hawk, Combustion Man has a bigger hawk.
Combustion Man does not need money, he just blows you up.
Even the Avatar with back up cannot beat Combustion Man
If Combustion Man ever learned firebending, Avatarverse would be doomed


----------



## Wang Fire (Nov 17, 2011)

His nickname is also fucking awesome.

SPARKY SPARKY BOOM MAN.


----------



## Vault (Nov 17, 2011)

The Boulder >


----------



## Burke (Nov 17, 2011)

Ill take water, i would argue for earth, but her name IS terra.

Grand monk is suitable for DDJ considering his airheadedness 

That of course is a joke, DDJ.


----------



## Noah (Nov 17, 2011)

^The fact that you know you had to put that there makes my insides giggle. :teehee


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 17, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Ill take water, i would argue for earth, but her name IS terra.
> 
> Grand monk is suitable for DDJ considering his airheadedness
> 
> That of course is a joke, DDJ.



Yes, I do know that you are joking, this time, even without your stating so, and I do feel very honored that you would consider me to be worthy of such a title, although I would prefer to be described with such terms as "creative," "spontaneous," or "open-minded," rather than "air-headed."


----------



## Burke (Nov 18, 2011)

Ill say air does fit you, yet in a way i cant quite pin down.


----------



## Wan (Nov 18, 2011)

Seems some more scans were posted.  The shame... 

Anyways.


*Spoiler*: __ 



_Five attempts_ on Zuko's life in a year?  Seriously?




Did you hear that?  I think it was Akimichi Juro's complaint that everything was happy and nice after the series ended flying out of a 50 story building's window.


----------



## Noah (Nov 18, 2011)

Oman said:


> Seems some more scans were posted.  The shame...
> 
> Anyways.
> 
> ...



But that was all in a comic after the show ended. Doesn't count according to him/her/it.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 18, 2011)

Does anyone have a link to the new pages leaked?


----------



## Burke (Nov 18, 2011)

same tumblr
Rania - Pop Pop Pop audio


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 18, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> *Really* out the loop.
> The comic has been talked about numerous times since the first announcement.
> 
> Remember guys, if some of your favorite characters are missing from this first issue--there are 2 more to go that feature this particular story arc.



I knew about the existence of the comic, but I don't remember seeing that as its art so it confused me.  I wish I could get it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 19, 2011)

In the newest images, when Toph asked Sokka if he wanted to know "what fireworks are like for [her]," I was hoping that she would kiss him, so I was very disappointed that that was not what she did. That reminded me that Toph is the only main protagonist who never had any serious romantic involvement in the original series, so I hope that she finds love in this new comic. Does anyone else here hope for such an occurrence, as well?


----------



## Wan (Nov 19, 2011)

Wasn't Suki, like, right there?  Toph just kissing Sokka would be out of character for her, not to mention it would cause a huge amount of drama that would be of no good to Avatar's story.  Not everyone has to hook up with someone, you know.


----------



## Burke (Nov 19, 2011)

im not totally against tokka, but i now go for toph x that emo earth bender


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 19, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> im not totally against tokka, but i now go for toph x that emo earth bender



I could also share your sentiment and support them as a couple, but I would prefer to wait until more information about him is revealed, such as his name and more details of his personality.


----------



## Dimezanime88 (Nov 23, 2011)

Oman said:


> Dimezanime88 is the Lion Turtle for being around since the beginning.



Lmao, that's an honor. 

As for Toph, well she does apparently find love eventually.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 23, 2011)

I am still hoping that Toph did reconcile with her parents, and that the details of that reconciliation shall be shown in _The Promise._


----------



## Superstarseven (Nov 23, 2011)

Well...who do you think gave her the money to build/buy the building to run the academy?


----------



## Glued (Nov 24, 2011)

Scrooge McDuck.


----------



## Glued (Nov 24, 2011)

When will the first episode of korra air.

I'm hungry, I want to eat a polar dog.


----------



## Burke (Nov 24, 2011)

IMSTARVING!

anyways, korra is looking like the first quarter of 2013 most likely Feb
Good news is, the comic will satisfy most fans till then.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 24, 2011)

Ahem -- The Duke x Toph. 



> IMSTARVING!
> 
> anyways, korra is looking like the first quarter of 2013 most likely Feb
> Good news is, the comic will satisfy most fans till then.


For fans that can read it!


----------



## Shade (Nov 25, 2011)

Wait what, I thought we were looking at Fall 2012, where did 2013 come in?


----------



## Darth (Nov 25, 2011)

The comic was cool. Shame we have to wait until May for the next part to be released.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 25, 2011)

Darth said:


> The comic was cool. Shame we have to wait until May for the next part to be released.



What?! **


----------



## Glued (Nov 25, 2011)

Gunners, you and I both know that comics are either monthly or bi-monthly


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 26, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well...who do you think gave her the money to build/buy the building to run the academy?



It is possible that other people gave her money as a reward for helping to save them from being conquered by the Fire Nation, or that her reputation alone was sufficient for her to gain disciples. I do hope that the question of the identity of the father of her daughter is answered in this comic, as her daughter shall apparently be a major character in the next television series.


----------



## Raiden (Nov 26, 2011)

Characters not acting like I expected them too. Very interesting.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 26, 2011)

Shade said:


> Wait what, I thought we were looking at Fall 2012, where did 2013 come in?



Nothing official said it as far as I know.


----------



## Darc (Nov 26, 2011)

Is this series worth watching? I need something new to check out.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 26, 2011)

Darc said:


> Is this series worth watching? I need something new to check out.



What type of series do you normally follow? This series is primarily an action-based series, but it also contains significant comedy, romance, and drama, as well.


----------



## Wan (Nov 28, 2011)

Darc said:


> Is this series worth watching? I need something new to check out.



If you like action-fantasy shows with smart writing, rounded, dynamic characters, and a pitch-perfect balance of humor and serious themes, then you'll enjoy this show.


----------



## Wang Fire (Nov 28, 2011)

Darc said:


> Is this series worth watching? I need something new to check out.





DemonDragonJ said:


> What type of series do you normally follow? This series is primarily an action-based series, but it also contains significant comedy, romance, and drama, as well.





Oman said:


> If you like action-fantasy shows with smart writing, rounded, dynamic characters, and a pitch-perfect balance of humor and serious themes, then you'll enjoy this show.



I think a simple 'yes' would have been good enough 

But yeah, it's a series I'd recommend to almost anybody.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 28, 2011)

Maybe Kuei is the father of Toph's child


----------



## Wan (Nov 28, 2011)

But that would make her daughter the heir to the Earth Kingdom throne.  Or at least in line for it.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 28, 2011)

If she lives in Republic City she could have *give*n *it up*.

*Never gonna* do it though.


----------



## Jena (Nov 28, 2011)

Mider T said:


> If she lives in Republic City she could have *give*n *it up*.
> 
> *Never gonna* do it though.


----------



## Wan (Nov 28, 2011)

Mider T said:


> If she lives in Republic City she could have *give*n *it up*.
> 
> *Never gonna* do it though.


----------



## Burke (Nov 28, 2011)

oh god not another round of gif spam


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 28, 2011)

Mider T said:


> Maybe Kuei is the father of Toph's child



Kuei is far older than Toph, so I hope that you are joking when you say that.



Mider T said:


> If she lives in Republic City she could have *give*n *it up*.
> 
> *Never gonna* do it though.







St. Burke said:


> oh god not another round of gif spam


----------



## Jena (Nov 28, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> oh god not another round of gif spam


----------



## Stunna (Nov 28, 2011)

Would've been funnier un-bolded. But then, I doubt anyone would've gotten it.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 28, 2011)

I completely forgot about that scene; Aang's face at the end is priceless/ From what episode is that scene, may I ask? I cannot recall.


----------



## Wan (Nov 28, 2011)

The Warriors of Kyoshi.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 29, 2011)

Oman said:


> The Warriors of Kyoshi.



Yes, thank you very much.

On that subject, was Kyoshi herself ever shown without her trademark face paint and headdress?


----------



## Mider T (Nov 29, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Kuei is far older than Toph, so I hope that you are joking when you say that.



I'm not sure what surprised me more, the fact that Kuei is only 8 years older than Toph and you're aware that people ship Iroh and Toph together, or the fact that you used a laughing smiley.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Nov 29, 2011)

Mider T said:


> I'm not sure what surprised me more, the fact that *Kuei is only 8 years older than Toph* and you're aware that people ship Iroh and Toph together, or the fact that you used a laughing smiley.



Kuei is only twenty years old (as Toph is twelve during the series)? I did not know that. And why is it surprising that I used a laughing emoticon?


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 30, 2011)

Darc said:


> Is this series worth watching? I need something new to check out.



Yes, it is DEFINITELY worth watching. Over and over, and over again. 

If you wanna watch online... Best for me, but others might have better links.


----------



## Wan (Nov 30, 2011)

Buy the DVDs damnit.


----------



## Terra Branford (Nov 30, 2011)

That's also an option, though one I would advise only after you decide you like it or not. They play on TV too, though mostly just the last season.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Dec 3, 2011)




----------



## Misha-San (Dec 3, 2011)

Wow nice opening I guess I have to get used not being Katara narrating anymore. =[


----------



## Glued (Dec 3, 2011)

"When I was a boy, *my father* Avatar Aang told me..."

Damn, it feels so weird.

It seems like only yesterday Aang was breaking out of his ball of ice.


----------



## Wang Fire (Dec 3, 2011)

holy shit.

words can not express how excited i got watching that.


----------



## Raiden (Dec 3, 2011)

I am very pleased. 

But I do want to see the crew again : (.


----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2011)




----------



## Hatifnatten (Dec 3, 2011)

Looks pretty decent. The premise is completely retarded, but I'll still check it out.


----------



## Glued (Dec 3, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> WHY ARE TEHY DOING THIS TO US LIEK A YEAR BEFORE THE SERIES COEM OUT
> ASFGAJSHFJKASHFAHFJKHASJKf



BECAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO!!!


...Or most likely some douchebag at Nickolodean illegally released this without consent from the studio.


----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2011)

Hatifnatten said:


> Looks pretty decent. The premise is completely retarded, but I'll still check it out.



In your own words, what is the premise.


----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2011)

wait a second... wait a fucking second...

THE SERIES IS CALLED AVATAR: THE LEGEND OF KORRA

ASHFGASHFGHASGF


----------



## Hatifnatten (Dec 3, 2011)




----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2011)

The reason i said your own words is cause i knew you would do that.


----------



## Glued (Dec 3, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> In your own words, what is the premise.



All the nations became one super nation. 

However if you remove one outgroup, a new one will replace it.

Its no longer Water+Earth vs Fire.

Now it is Bender vs Non-bender. X-men style.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 3, 2011)

OH

MY

GOD.


----------



## Misha-San (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you guys heard of this The Last Airbender Comic called The Promise? It seems that Aang and Katara are all lovely dovey and calling each other Sweetie. Toph and Sokka are really annoyed lmao. Here's a scan of it.


----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2011)

Misha-San said:


> Have you guys heard of this The Last Airbender Comic called The Promise? It seems that Aang and Katara are all lovely dovey and calling each other Sweetie. Toph and Sokka are really annoyed lmao. Here's a scan of it.



yes misha we know


----------



## Misha-San (Dec 3, 2011)

Hehe Sorry after the comic con thing I haven't updated myself on new stuff hehe


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 3, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> All the nations became one super nation.
> 
> However if you remove one outgroup, a new one will replace it.
> 
> ...



The three nations still exist (can't really call Tenzin and his three kids a nation... yet).  The "United Republic of Nations" is just a new country 
on the Earth Kingdom continent that's a compilation of citizens from the other three nations.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh my...

Also keep in mind that they changed the original opening after chapter 1, so who knows what it'll be for chapter 2 this time.


----------



## Noah (Dec 3, 2011)

It feels less epic than the original opening. But more epic than, say....everything else in existence.

In possibly related news, but then again maybe not: I never thought I'd get a boner just listening to JK Simmons talking.


----------



## Glued (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm honestly expecting JK Simmons didn't go into an anti Spider-man rant

[Youtube]_r_mkJMPZWE[/Youtube]


----------



## Mider T (Dec 3, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> WHY ARE TEHY DOING THIS TO US LIEK A YEAR BEFORE THE SERIES COEM OUT
> ASFGAJSHFJKASHFAHFJKHASJKf



My thoughts exactly, it's like one huge cocktease.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 3, 2011)

The new title screen. 



> Avatar: Legend of Korra.



Everything is as it should be.


----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2011)

praise be to Bryke ; ~ ;


----------



## Coteaz (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm kind of excited again. Just a little, though.


----------



## Koi (Dec 3, 2011)

Tearbending rn you guys


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 3, 2011)

So...someone leaked a little of a Screener copy?
Probably best we don't know the source.
Observations - 
*Animation in the opening is much more fluid than what Titmouse did for Avatar: TLA's intro. 
*First episode is titled _Welcome To Republic City_. 
*We get to see Aang as an adult. Apparently grows a beard st some point.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 3, 2011)

Not sure if it was just me, but there seemed to have been more 3D animation, which could have interesting connotations for the rest of the series.


----------



## Glued (Dec 3, 2011)

Koi said:


> Tearbending rn you guys



Combustion Man does not tearbend.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 3, 2011)

It raises the question as to whether the official title is _Avatar_ or _The Last Airbender:Legend of Korra_
Now the title was announced before the summer but we saw it officially at Comic-Con. 
From the little clip we saw of the actual episode, Track team has composed music for the intro and we heard some sound design as those men were trekking through the snow presumably to speak to Korra. The thing is that they announced on Facebook in October that they just finished hearing the final mix for the first episode. This screener copy is very recent.

Did Nick allow the Korra crew to go back to the original title at the 11th hour?


----------



## Burke (Dec 3, 2011)

id say were in the 8th hour, star


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 3, 2011)

Sure until it airs but there seems to be this nutty back and forth confusion as to the actual title of the show.
It was originally registered as Avatar: Legend of Korra then the name change and now this.
I did think about the possibility of the entire episode being leaked but to have to suffer through the wait until the series is actually set to air would be excruciating.


----------



## Wan (Dec 4, 2011)




----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 4, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> From the little clip we saw of the actual episode, Track team has composed music for the intro and we heard some sound design as those men were trekking through the snow presumably to speak to Korra. The thing is that they announced on Facebook in October that they just finished hearing the final mix for the first episode. This screener copy is very recent.



Also note that the opener is simply a refined version of the old theme. I kinda like that; it shows continuity between the series and makes it very clear that whatever they call the show, it is basically the next incarnation of the same story.

I wanna hear some goddamn jazz-influenced Avatar cues. Did they mean swing? Bop? Cool? Dammit I need to know.


----------



## Jena (Dec 4, 2011)




----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 4, 2011)

Wow; that opening was simply amazing, and it definitely has me excited for the new series. I see that this new intro has a different order in which the elements are introduced, and that each element is represented by the avatar for whom that was their native element.

Was that the voice of J.K. Simmons narrating the opening? I know that he shall be providing the voice of Tenzin, Aang's son, and that the narrator referred to Aang as his father, but that voice was so very different from the voice of Simmons when he played J. Jonah Jameson, the role that I know him best as.

I see that the narrator spoke highly of Zuko, which hopefully is evidence that Zuko was able to improve the reputation of the Fire Nation among the other nations, and it is now almost certain that the Republic City is physically located in the Earth Kingdom, as it is the largest of the nations in geographic size.

I also am very glad that the title screen used the word "Avatar," as James Cameron's film cannot claim sole usage of that word.

I do hope that the series does not premiere for some time yet, as I am too busy to follow it currently, but I shall be very eager to follow it when it does premiere. Thank you very much for posting that video, Judge Fudge, and I shall give you +rep for doing so.


----------



## Wan (Dec 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Was that the voice of J.K. Simmons narrating the opening? I know that he shall be providing the voice of Tenzin, Aang's son, and that the narrator referred to Aang as his father, but that voice was so very different from the voice of Simmons when he played J. Jonah Jameson, the role that I know him best as.



I think so.  It sounds like Tenzin may be quite a different character to play than Jameson or Cave Johnson, the roles JK Simmons is most known for.

Btw...looks like we finally got our Air Book.


----------



## Shade (Dec 4, 2011)

Wow, I can't stop rewatching that. I wish we'd get an air date. There's some talk of the premiere being after the KCAs as Nick tends to premiere new shows then.

About the title card, we don't know exactly how recent this intro is; it may have been one of the first things they completed and considering production started early last year, it's not far-fetched to believe the first episode would be finished before the name change was imposed. 

And since we know it'll be two mini-seasons, I'm wondering what the subtitle for the next one will be if the first is "Book 1: Air."


----------



## Wan (Dec 4, 2011)

Shade said:


> Wow, I can't stop rewatching that.



Same here!

Random note:  I like the violin that plays as the camera zooms in to Republic City.  I heard that the Track Team got a live string quartet along with other things to record for the whole series, and the effect is already showing.  Maybe we'll get Sozin's Comet quality scores throughout the show!


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 4, 2011)

Shade said:


> About the title card, we don't know exactly how recent this intro is; it may have been one of the first things they completed and considering production started early last year, it's not far-fetched to believe the first episode would be finished before the name change was imposed.



Well, you have to see if it fits the timeline. Avatar: Legend of Korra was announced via twitter in May of 2010 and announced officially in July of that year. LeSean Thomas wrote back to me that he started work on the show in June. He lives in Korea so he's working directly for Mir Studios. Now, the first mention publicly that the name changed was made by Dee bradley baker though an interview published in August of 2010.  He calls it *The Last Airbender: The Journey of Korra*. Close enough.


Now remember those 9 months that it takes to finish an episode. 
So much to our chagrin, everyone accepts the name change in March with the announcement coming through the Wall Street Journal online pieces. The Track Team, as I posted before, didn't hear the final mix for the first show until October and started their work on the show in August. I imagine that what they saw was a ready-to-air copy which is what got leaked yesterday. There's really no reason for a mix-up like affixing a title card from very early on in the show's production to a completed episode that's a couple of months old. Mistakes happen but that's about a year of this show going under _Last Airbender: Legend of Korra_.


----------



## MunchKing (Dec 4, 2011)

Daaaamn, that opening is awesome.

  

I'm wondering what the series would look like on TV. The level of detail in the opening alone is painstakingly beautiful.


----------



## Teppei (Dec 4, 2011)

Wow, the new opening is great. I was a big fan of the original series, and just recently watched it twice in a row. It's surprising at how attached you get to the Gaang, and how well developed each of them are, especially considering it's aimed a children.

One thing I'm hoping for from Korra is that sense of friendship. The way how the original series made you feel as if you were part of Gaang. I know this is supposed to be more maturer and story driven compared to the original, but a few episodes dedicated to the new crews antics and relationships wouldn't go the wrong way.
And by "relationships", I don't mean love triangles. I'm not for corny teen romance, and it's one of the reasons I stay away from most Avatar froums with thier constant pairing talk. I know it's been stated we'll see some in Korra, but I hope they don't go over the top with it...

Anyway, Bolin looks like he'll be my favourite so far. Sokka is one of my favourite fictional characters through out any media, so hopefully Bolin will join him up there


----------



## Pseudo (Dec 4, 2011)

Wow, the bending got more epic guys, and it looks like they have one hell of a budget this time!


----------



## Hana (Dec 4, 2011)

Tenzin sounds amazing! Those visuals! Was that Aang???? J.K. Simmons does not disappoint (not that I ever thought he would).


----------



## blakstealth (Dec 4, 2011)

Goddamn, that animation. See that fire? Good lord..


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 4, 2011)

So, if Toph is teaching other earthbenders to bend metal in _The Promise,_ how likely is it that either Zuko or Iroh are teaching other firebenders to generate lightning? I would like to see that.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 4, 2011)

I wonder, is the show going to have a different threat each season? The opening didn't designate a specific antagonist.


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

its like every episode has twice the animation as the finale


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 4, 2011)

Maybe this answers that question - 


> Nickelodeon had picked up “Korra” for 12 episodes but recently decided to order 14 more shows. “*When we first starting talking to Nickelodeon about doing a new series in the ‘Avatar’ world, they asked if we could do shorter arcs—more like a show like ‘24’where there’s a specific villain or challenge for that particular season,” Konietzko says.  “We’re really happy with that number.* It allows us to focus much more closely on each episode and get a lot more craft into it.”




This actually allows Nickelodeon to commit to airing fewer episodes and not receive any backlash if say they canceled the series 27 episodes in to a planned 40 episode story arc.


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

inb4 12 episodes a year ;~;


----------



## Gunners (Dec 4, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> So, if Toph is teaching other earthbenders to bend metal in _The Promise,_ how likely is it that either Zuko or Iroh are teaching other firebenders to generate lightning? I would like to see that.



I don't think Zuko and Iroh would go around teaching firebenders a move that's purpose is to kill with precision.


----------



## Wan (Dec 4, 2011)

Well, the video got taken down due to a "copyright claim by Viacom"...good thing I downloaded it while it was up!


----------



## Quaero (Dec 4, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbnzAr7nFyI&hd=1[/YOUTUBE]

Now in 720p. 

Spoilers from the description. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



And I'm not going to upload the full episode... I've only got the first episode anyway.And yes the only person that's in it from the last series is Katara (she looks so ancient) but I love her and she says that all the other are gone even Sokka . And yes Korra does run away from the training temple in the Water Tribe to go to Republic City and to find her own way as the Avatar and also because Tenzin is the only air-bending master she knows and needs him to teach her.

There's only 12 episodes of this series. (That's what I know)
But what I'm hoping is,... is that it will have more series. 
Some people say this will be released 2013.... NO!
It's definetly 2012 because at the end of the episode with the nickelodeon logo it said 2012.
Oh and Korra sounds great! She has bubbly personality but also very fierce at the same time! You guys will love her!


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 4, 2011)

Sure it could be a bunch of B.S. but it is a much higher quality version of what we've seen so I can believe that somehow this person got a copy of the first episode.


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

Hah shit! viacom fucking yanked that out of the air.
I hope Oman got the drop on it.
I was watching it, i pressed refresh to watch again, and boom, it was gone. nice.

Anyways it sucks so much how aparently noone from the original lived past 80 years old besides katara... i mean shit, azulon was 90 something, bumi was over 100 and still looking good, kyoshi was 230 :|c

i mean i understand aang with all the life force stuff and whatnot, but still


----------



## Wan (Dec 4, 2011)

Oman said:


> Quick! Download it before it's taken down!



Time's up. :\


----------



## Ziko (Dec 4, 2011)

Clicked it, loaded it, wanted fullscreen but had to see it from Youtube to get full screen. By the time i got into youtube the video was gone. God..Damnit..


----------



## Glued (Dec 4, 2011)

Oh please, this is a fairly large fanbase

[YOUTUBE]fTCRSXB_W64[/YOUTUBE]

There are probably hundred of places to find it online.


----------



## Piekage (Dec 4, 2011)

Unmirrored download gaiz.

abercrombie


----------



## Shade (Dec 4, 2011)

Dammit, missed the 720p link. Anyone got another link?


----------



## Judge Fudge (Dec 4, 2011)

Link to 1 mintue clip from the first episode
abercrombie

I would uploaded to youtube but Viacom has been on a spree with taking down anything related to it


----------



## MunchKing (Dec 4, 2011)

omfg is that 
*Spoiler*: __ 



old!Katara




*spaz*


----------



## Wan (Dec 4, 2011)

Ok...no thank you.  The intro sequence served as a tantalizing preview to the show, but I'm going to wait until it actually premieres to watch any material from the episode itself.

I kindly ask that any spoilers from the clip, or other clips, be kept in spoiler tags.


----------



## MunchKing (Dec 4, 2011)

^ Partypooper.

Nah it's ok.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm telling you, upload the intro to Livevideo or even Myspace video...it'd take much longer for Viacom to do anything.
They have a real cozy relationship with Youtube and have for years now.

I'm trying to see when it is that the full episode is going to be uploaded. Come on now, a minute clip from the premiere? I have trouble believing that it's going to end there. Perhaps by Wednesday?
This DVD had to be stacked up somewhere in the Nick building, probably not very securely, and swiped by someone who knew exactly when to take it.

This is the only animated franchise I know that gets treated like this. I see some pictures from the episode getting leaked on Tumblr ( you were warned)


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 4, 2011)

So apparently there's a small 1 min clip with Korra fighting now. I feel bad for Brye with all these leaks now.


----------



## Hana (Dec 4, 2011)

There are quite a few pics of the first episode out as well. I can PM the link to whoever wants to see them.


*Spoiler*: __ 



The Tenzin family is so fucking cute!!!!!!!! ARGGHHH!!


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

pics from the _whole_ first episode?


----------



## Hana (Dec 4, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> pics from the _whole_ first episode?



The guy that has been leaking has the entire first episode.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 4, 2011)

They'll probably drop the ep sooner or later. Viacom pulls it down soon after and then the internet puts it back up.

Also I'm pretty sure most of the caps for the episode are on tumblr now


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

i dont know... i think... yes?
i dunno
i may have seen too much already


----------



## Gunners (Dec 4, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Actually a spoiler_ 




I wonder if old Katara means other cast members will make an appearance?


----------



## Coteaz (Dec 4, 2011)

Spoilers now means that I will be more excited when the show premieres.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 4, 2011)

Gunners said:


> *Spoiler*: _Actually a spoiler_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only Toph and Zuko from what I hear


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

good point, i saw it and have zero regrets


*Spoiler*: _no seriously, spoilers here_ 



So anyways, I.. CALLED IT! Yeah i called it, i knew when she was firebeinding in the snow in the trailer that she was wearing firebending training garb, and not a probending outfit. I kneeeeww.

Anyways, when Katara says "if anyone can teach her, its tenzin." i think she means spiritual side of bending, and namely airbending. I dont think she was implying there were other airbenders.

Anyways, voice actors sound great, and i could really get used to them, and of course, the animation is at its best


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> Only Toph and Zuko from what I hear



Both dead


----------



## Shade (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm going to be disappointed if the full episode leaks. The opening is one thing, because it doesn't really give much away we didn't already know, but the episode itself may be unfinished or otherwise unfit for airing in the production team's eyes. Even if it is finished, it's a sign that we're not too far from an air date. For it to be circulated among the fanbase now just shows impatience and doesn't help the creators' image of the fanbase. We know it's from an inside source so I'm surprised the perpetrator hasn't been busted yet.

Anyway, because I like you guys, here's the opening in better quality (Switch to 4:3). Aang with a beard.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 4, 2011)

Gunners said:


> I don't think Zuko and Iroh would go around teaching firebenders a move that's purpose is to kill with precision.



No, I suppose not, but I do hope that there shall be at least one firebender who can generate lightning in the new series.



Oman said:


> Well, the video got taken down due to a "copyright claim by Viacom"...good thing I downloaded it while it was up!



That was very fast, so I am very glad that I was able to watch the video while it was still available. I am deeply disturbed by the fact that Viacom is being so protective of its content; how could a one-minute-long video being posted on _YouTube_ affect sales of the series as a whole?


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 4, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Both dead



No I mean appearances not whether their actually alive. Their voice actors have confirmed their working on the show in some role.


----------



## Koi (Dec 4, 2011)

KORRA CLIP
Info on CNBLUE's debut single, In My Head

SORRY IF IT'S BEEN POSTED, I'M TOO BUSY FLAILING TO READ THE LAST FEW PAGES OF THE THREAD
jaerg,jbsfgb,gbf,bf,b


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

oh koi, so funny


----------



## Koi (Dec 4, 2011)

ALSO JSYK I'M STILL BANKING ON TOPH/LONGSHOT


----------



## Mider T (Dec 4, 2011)

Yeah I don't care about spoils.  That first episode...I want it.  Anybody get there hands on it PM it to me.


----------



## Koi (Dec 4, 2011)




----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 4, 2011)

Koi said:


> KORRA CLIP
> Info on CNBLUE's debut single, In My Head
> 
> SORRY IF IT'S BEEN POSTED, I'M TOO BUSY FLAILING TO READ THE LAST FEW PAGES OF THE THREAD
> jaerg,jbsfgb,gbf,bf,b



I thank you so very much, Koi, and I shall definitely give you +rep for posing that.
*Spoiler*: __ 



So, I see that the general theory that Katara lived sufficiently long to teach Korra how to bend water is finally proven correct, and she certainly does resemble her grandmother, Kanna. I also hope that she is now more calm and mature in her personality, as well. I wonder who he other people present in that scene were? All of them except for one were members of the Water Tribe, judging from their clothing, and at least two of them have been mentors to Korra, judging from their dialogue. I wonder if any of them have any connections to characters from the original series?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 4, 2011)

Words cannot express Koi, words cannot express.


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



there was a white lotus guy there i think, not sure what his deal is




I personally like all the nifty charts you can make with the elements

.....................*physical* .............*spiritual*

*physical* ..... earthbending ....... firebending

*spiritual* ......waterbending ....... airbending


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 4, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Hmmm, I wonder?


----------



## Noah (Dec 4, 2011)

^Oh God please don't fail me now. Prove your existence through this one little cartoon.


----------



## Wan (Dec 4, 2011)

It's probably only a matter of time before I cave in.


----------



## Burke (Dec 4, 2011)

its harmless oman, i promise. the 1 minute clip is nothing, yet its satisfying.
cmon man


----------



## Wan (Dec 4, 2011)

But I want the whole episode to be a big squee moment. 

Ah, what am I saying, just the spoilers and trailer from Comic-Con eroded some of that, and I had no problem with that...still...must resist...


----------



## The Big G (Dec 5, 2011)

I wish to marry Korra 

I claim her now


----------



## Bringer (Dec 5, 2011)

I dont like the voice acting that much. And from the old trailer I thought of Korra a cocky bad ass serious avatar. Oh well this still looks kick ass


----------



## Wan (Dec 5, 2011)

_I caved._ Holy hell I want this show to premiere nyaooooooo.


*Spoiler*: __ 



So, overlooking Korra's firebending test were old!Katara, a Fire Nation citizen (presumably her firebending teacher), and _three_ guys dressed in White Lotus attire, possibly one of them Sokka (in full old!Waaang Fyah mode!)?  I guess this means that after the Hundred Year War the Order took a more overt and direct role in world affairs such as aiding the Avatar, not as subtle as they were before.

I'm calling it now.  Sokka eventually became the Grand Lotus.


----------



## Burke (Dec 5, 2011)

BringerOfChaos said:


> I dont like the voice acting that much. And from the old trailer I thought of Korra a cocky bad ass serious avatar. Oh well this still looks kick ass



So youre asking for a cocky kyoshi i guess. I dunno, i never figured shed be that way, i kinda like this korra. I can already see her combining the best qualities of all of the old main cast.



Oman said:


> _I caved._ Holy hell I want this show to premiere nyaooooooo.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Do you feel better atleast? 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Doubtful, as much as it sucks, i think kataras the only one left ;~;, although, yes, it looks like the white lotus is removing secret from secret order.


----------



## Wan (Dec 5, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> So youre asking for a cocky kyoshi i guess. I dunno, i never figured shed be that way, i kinda like this korra. I can already see her combining the best qualities of all of the old main cast.



Yeah, I like Korra from what I've seen.  A bit overeager, but aware of it -- she catches herself and pays respect to her masters.  She probably has some maturing and character growth to do through the series, but hey, that's part of why we watch. 



> Do you feel better atleast?



Soooooooo goooooooood.


----------



## Koi (Dec 5, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Katara is old people, omg I love it ;__;


----------



## Mider T (Dec 5, 2011)

Where are you guys getting the episode?


----------



## Burke (Dec 5, 2011)

shit, no way im watching the full episode.

the person who posted the opening leak on youtube has a twitter where he/she posted a one minute snippet of the episode.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 5, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow! Awesome find, Stab-o-Tron! It certainly is possible that Sokka is still alive, but
*Spoiler*: __ 



Katara has already been proven to still be alive, so I doubt that too many more characters from the original series shall still be alive at this point.


And that is White Lotus clothing that the people apart from the Fire Nation character were wearing? It looks so similar to Water Tribe garb that I was not able to tell the difference initially.


----------



## Koi (Dec 5, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _KATARA SPOILERS OMG_ 



JESUS YOU GUYS I HOPE WE DON'T SEE HER DIE IN THE SERIES!!  REMEMBER WHAT AUNT WU SAID ABOUT HER DYING PEACEFULLY IN HER SLEEP AFTER ONE OF HER GRANDCHILDREN IS BORN??  FUCK.




Also, this was drawn MONTHS ago.  I don't remember the original artist but omg tearbending.


----------



## Ciupy (Dec 5, 2011)

^Okay,now that's just kind of depressing.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

WHAT HAVE I MISSED!?

All the videos don't work! T.T SOMEONE SHARE WITH ME! I CAN'T BEAR IT! 



Koi said:


> *Spoiler*: _KATARA SPOILERS OMG_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




@ the spoilers:


----------



## Synn (Dec 5, 2011)

Can someone find a working link to the video?


----------



## Quaero (Dec 5, 2011)

Long but very interesting read about Big Bangs history

Ask and you shall receive.


----------



## Burke (Dec 5, 2011)

Recheck The Fortunteller, im almost positive she said "third great grandchild".

Still... i pulls at my heart seeing young katara embracing aang at the end of avatar, and then seeing feeble katara after her life is behind her, and aang is gone.

If anything, i hope korra channels aang enough to morph into him like aang did with roku and kyoshi x3


----------



## Synn (Dec 5, 2011)

Found two working links:

Opening: better quality

Episode 1 (pics): better quality


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 5, 2011)

For just the new intro:
better quality
[sp]Is it that really Aang airbending in the intro? Seeing the images of his son make me think that it is Tenzin instead.
No epic-beard Aang. [/sp]


----------



## Burke (Dec 5, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Long but very interesting read about Big Bangs history
> 
> Ask and you shall receive.



In regards to episode one pictures


*Spoiler*: __ 



AHHH pot bellied korra is kawaiiii

It seems as if the white lotus take command over new avatar suspicions around the globe seeing as they are the hooded figures traveling in the snow in the very beginning. Id imagine that the lotus members are each of a different bending dicipline, and oversee the avatars multi element training all from their home town.

Also, metal bending cops are awesome.

Katara and her grandbabies, aww.

and i hope the series doesnt progress too quickly.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 5, 2011)

If you notice, it's the Avatars doing the sequence. 


It's Aang. 

Spoilered because huge.


----------



## Pseudo (Dec 5, 2011)

The previous Avatars.


----------



## Burke (Dec 5, 2011)

1, spoiler tag that monstrosity

2, yeah its aang, im sad though, i dont like the monster eyebrows


----------



## Synn (Dec 5, 2011)

Quaero said:


> If you notice, it's the Avatars doing the sequence.
> 
> It's Aang.



Yep, it's a sequence of the previous avatars: Kyoshi | Roku | Aang | Korra


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Long but very interesting read about Big Bangs history
> 
> Ask and you shall receive.



Thank you!

A lot of people made it seem like the whole episode was leaked.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 5, 2011)

Quaero said:


> If you notice, it's the Avatars doing the sequence.


Well, yes, I noticed that. [sp]However, the images of Tenzin seem to match better than the images of Aang.[/sp]


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

I was just about to say that looks more like what we have seen of Tenzin than Aang...


----------



## Quaero (Dec 5, 2011)

Come on...

Are you guys saying Tenzin can't look like his old man?


----------



## Synn (Dec 5, 2011)

But why would they put Tenzin in the opening sequence along with Avatars? He isn't one, so it doesn't make sense.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 5, 2011)

Tenzin's the relevant Airbender to the series?


----------



## Pseudo (Dec 5, 2011)

Kora and her little pudgy tummy!


----------



## Synn (Dec 5, 2011)

Famine said:


> Tenzin's the relevant Airbender to the series?



Still doesn't explain why he was mixed along with known Avatars.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 5, 2011)

If it weren't for Kyoshi and Roku representing their respective elements, I'd believe it was Tenzin also. One would have to presume that it's adult Aang because of the previous Avatar incarnations.

One thing that had me scratching my head yesterday was one of the admins of a popular Avatar forum mentioning the camera moving along the water surrounding Republic city and panning up to Aang's status and how she thought it was "weird".

?

There's nothing weird about that shot at all. The statue happens to be overlooking the city and comes into frame just as Tenzin is talking about his father passing away.
If she didn't have a Doctorate, I'd call her an idiot.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Come on...
> 
> Are you guys saying Tenzin can't look like his old man?



Because the facial hair and body type looks like Tenzin. If Aang remained in a similar appearance as to the statue of him, then I doubt that is him. Plus, it doesn't even look like his style of Airbending. Aang was in the previous opening, so that's probably a reason why it would be his son -- Korra's teacher -- instead of Aang. Tenzin and his family are also the last airbenders, so that could be another? Maybe the previous Avatars are there because Korra is present in it and not meant to be "the" Avatars bending? Plus, the clothes look just like Tenzin -- which does not look similar to Aang's outfit.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 5, 2011)

Maybe it is Tenzin even though hes already narrating 
Maybe it is him.....


----------



## Koi (Dec 5, 2011)

Btw has anyone commented on the fact Korra's dad is kind of a dilf?  Continuing Hakoda's trend, I see.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 5, 2011)

If you notice, the person in the sequence has sideburns, which Tenzin lacks.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

I don't see sideburns.  Besides, didn't Aang and Katara have more than one kid? Could be one of those then. This man moves differently than how Aang moved. So unless after the comic his completely changed his style, I don't think its him.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 5, 2011)

Indeed, they did, 2 waterbenders and Tenzin.



He is much older, so of course he is going to move differently. 

Plus, if it was Tenzin, his beard would stick out much further.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

They are known to be waterbenders? I did not know this.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Because the facial hair and body type looks like Tenzin. If Aang remained in a similar appearance as to the statue of him, then I doubt that is him.



Keep in mind that the statue of Aang might have been made (probably by earthbenders) a the inception of Republic City, which is most likely founded at the end of the current comic arc in "The Promise".  Meaning, when the statue was made in his likeness, Aang is still a teenager.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 5, 2011)

Famine said:


> Well, yes, I noticed that. [sp]However, the images of Tenzin seem to match better than the images of Aang.[/sp]




*Spoiler*: __ 




Which is only logical. If you compared my Dad at age 20 to me (now) and him (when he was 12 years old. I look more like him. 

Aang got tall.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> They are known to be waterbenders? I did not know this.



They may be non benders. However it was stated that Tenzin was the only one of Aang's children to inherit air bending.


----------



## Shade (Dec 5, 2011)

Yeah, it's definitely Aang, wouldn't make any sense for it not to be. I'm guessing that's how he looked closer to the end of his life since we know he only lived till like 54 (+100).


----------



## Gunners (Dec 5, 2011)

Shade said:


> Yeah, it's definitely Aang, wouldn't make any sense for it not to be. I'm guessing that's how he looked closer to the end of his life since we know he only lived till like 54 (+100).



He died when he was 65. Anyway he looked to be in his late 30s early 40s. I'm not sure what state Avatar's appear in but it is not the state they were in before death, Kyoshi, the Air bender and the Water bender avatar were all young in their appearance.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Keep in mind that the statue of Aang might have been made (probably by earthbenders) a the inception of Republic City, which is most likely founded at the end of the current comic arc in "The Promise".  Meaning, when the statue was made in his likeness, Aang is still a teenager.



I guess so. The style still doesn't seem like Aang to me, but the comic probably changes his style...



Gunners said:


> They may be non benders. However it was stated that Tenzin was the only one of Aang's children to inherit air bending.



Tenzin the only airbender? I read that it was confirmed he could airbend, but not that he was the only one.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 5, 2011)

Tenzin isn't the only one. His kids can do so as well.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

But we're talking of Aang's kids though.  Is Tenzin the only child of Aang and Katara's that can airbend?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 5, 2011)

I didn't know Aang and Katara had more kids than Tenzin.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 5, 2011)

But I've already said that.

I need more info...MORE


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I didn't know Aang and Katara had more kids than Tenzin.



Yup, they have three. Tenzin is the youngest from what we were told.


----------



## Koi (Dec 5, 2011)

The youngest and only Airbender.  The other two(?) are Waterbenders.  I reeeeeally hope we get to see what they look like.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 5, 2011)

I can't find the link (and being fairly drunk right now probably doesn't help), but there was an interview wherein M & B said that their (Aang and Katara's) other two kids are waterbenders.


Edit: Damn, Koi beat me to it by a few seconds.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

Oh? Well if they said it, then dang.  I'm kinda hoping its kinda true; one waterbender and two airbenders. xD


----------



## Mider T (Dec 5, 2011)

There's just one Airbender (Tenzin)


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 5, 2011)

^ I know that now. I just meant I hope it ends up only being half true (what I know of now); one waterbender and two airbenders.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 5, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> Kora and her little pudgy tummy!



Are you saying that you find her attractive at that young age, not in her best physical condition? 



Koi said:


> Btw has anyone commented on the fact Korra's dad is kind of a dilf?  Continuing Hakoda's trend, I see.



How do you know that that man with Korra is her father?


----------



## Wan (Dec 6, 2011)

Of course DDJ, it's not like ThePseudo just thinks Korra and her pudgy tummy are cute or anything...


----------



## Mider T (Dec 6, 2011)

DDJ's Situation reading status:...verifying...
DDJ's Situation reading status: FAILED. SITUATION NOT PROPERLY READ.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> Of course DDJ, it's not like ThePseudo just thinks Korra and her pudgy tummy are cute or anything...



Are you being sarcastic?



Mider T said:


> DDJ's Situation reading status:...verifying...
> DDJ's Situation reading status: FAILED. SITUATION NOT PROPERLY READ.



What situation did I fail to read, dare I ask?

I am surprised to learn that Tenzin is the youngest child of Aang and Katara; as he was the first to be revealed, I had presumed that he was the oldest, but it seems that my presumption was not correct. I now am very interested in learning about the other two children, and I hope that at least one of them is a waterbender.


----------



## Burke (Dec 6, 2011)

DDJ, Pseudo was simple reveling in young korras adorableness, and not her attractiveness. Would you not agree that young korra is adorable?


----------



## Wan (Dec 6, 2011)

Aw, I was hoping to see how long it would take DDJ to get it.

Yes, DDJ, I was being sarcastic.  Hint:  Whenever someone refers to you in the third person, it means they're either upset with you or being sarcastic at you.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 6, 2011)

Or they're The Boulder.


----------



## Glued (Dec 6, 2011)

The boulder is not amused


----------



## Platinum (Dec 6, 2011)

Nick being Nick.... probably not getting that wish.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 6, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> DDJ, Pseudo was simple reveling in young korras adorableness, and not her attractiveness. Would you not agree that young korra is adorable?



I suppose that I could agree with that sentiment, but I am not fond of young children, as I find them to be impulsive, irrational, and not self-sufficient, so I would have difficulty seeing any positive traits over those negative traits.



Oman said:


> Aw, I was hoping to see how long it would take DDJ to get it.
> 
> Yes, DDJ, I was being sarcastic. Hint: Whenever someone refers to you in the third person, it means they're either upset with you or being sarcastic at you.



I have difficulty recognizing sarcasm at times, so I suppose that any hints for recognizing such a sentiment would be very helpful.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you being sarcastic?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 6, 2011)

Nice image; Sheldon is my favorite character in _The Big Bang Theory,_ because he is similar to me, although I like to believe that I have better social skills than does he.

Also, regarding my post above, I can usually recognize sarcasm when communicating verbally with others from their tone of voice, but when posting on an internet message forum, it is much more difficult to recognize such sentiments, as typed posts cannot convey vocal tones.


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 6, 2011)

Oh come on!

I haven't been here for over half a year and DDJ still hasn't learned to communicate like a normal human being?


----------



## Gunners (Dec 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Nice image; Sheldon is my favorite character in _The Big Bang Theory,_ because he is similar to me, although I like to believe that I have better social skills than does he.
> 
> Also, regarding my post above, I can usually recognize sarcasm when communicating verbally with others from their tone of voice, but when posting on an internet message forum, it is much more difficult to recognize such sentiments, as typed posts cannot convey vocal tones.



The sarcasm was clear as day in his post, you didn't need vocals to pick it up. It was a case of ''Why are you jumping to an outlandish conclusion when the sensible conclusion is that he found Korra cute in a non sexual way.


----------



## Noah (Dec 6, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Nice image; Sheldon is my favorite character in _The Big Bang Theory,_ because he is similar to me, *although I like to believe that I have better social skills than does he.*



Dude says he doesn't know sarcasm. 

Now stop talking about DDJ and start talking about how you people are going to make this come out faster. And then talk about how epic that music was during that minute clip. Because it was. Strings can make any music more epic, even the track team. 

Did I say epic? Nay, I meant AVATAR. The soundtrack to Korra will be AVATAR. Tell me I'm wrong. You can't.


----------



## Koi (Dec 6, 2011)

Look, I probably sound like a broken record here, but is this the DDJ thread?  No, it's the AVATAR THREAD, BITCHES.


----------



## Koi (Dec 6, 2011)

Just leaving this here, btw.


----------



## Burke (Dec 6, 2011)

Koi said:


> Just leaving this here, btw.



100 truths to this.

although, im sure that the percentage of zutarians that watch korra will flock over makorra


----------



## Glued (Dec 6, 2011)

Oh dear lord, I loved Ember Island Players. A point where even the authors were ridiculing the fanbase.

Don't care much for shipping, but that was just awesome.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 6, 2011)

2 handsome dude that happen to be brothers.


----------



## Wan (Dec 6, 2011)

Never stopped AlphonsexEdward or ItachixSasuke shippers.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 6, 2011)

I also believe that it is very early to be supporting any romantic pairings, especially as virtually nothing is currently known about the personalities of the various characters.



Koi said:


> Just leaving this here, btw.



Awesome and hilarious image, Koi; I can almost imagine that actually occurring.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 6, 2011)

I wonder if Aang as an adult ( without the Avatar state) could make short work of Ozai?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 6, 2011)

lol, I would think so.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 6, 2011)

It's just funny looking back at the final fight, Ozai a big man in his 30s trying to spit roast someone who hadn't even hit puberty. Looked like a big bully.


----------



## Wan (Dec 6, 2011)

Gunners said:


> I wonder if Aang as an adult ( without the Avatar state) could make short work of Ozai?



Roku smacked down Sozin like a child.  I have no doubt Aang as an adult would do the same to Ozai, comet or not.


----------



## Pseudo (Dec 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> Roku smacked down Sozin like a child.  I have no doubt Aang as an adult would do the same to Ozai, comet or not.



Then what chance does the major villain in _Legend of Korra _have? He's not even a bender.


----------



## The Big G (Dec 6, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> Then what chance does the major villain in _Legend of Korra _have? He's not even a bender.



But he has Ty-Lee's anti-bending kung fu skillz


----------



## Burke (Dec 6, 2011)

The Big G said:


> But he has Ty-Lee's anti-bending kung fu skillz



and main villain plot shield


----------



## Wan (Dec 6, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> Then what chance does the major villain in _Legend of Korra _have? He's not even a bender.



...he's not fighting Aang in the first place?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 6, 2011)

Oman said:


> ...he's not fighting Aang in the first place?



On the other hand he's fighting a Avatar who is more than willing to brawl and pick fights

then again that could be used to his advantage


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 6, 2011)

Koi said:


> Just leaving this here, btw.



The faces in the place panel.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 6, 2011)

I think Korra's problem will be more than just dealing with the main villain on a physical level.  As things stand people have a fear towards benders so there is the possibility that she will have to take an approach that doesn't signify bending triumphing the common man. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Looking at the spoilers it also hints towards her spiritual development which will possibly linked to how she deals with the threat.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 6, 2011)

Gunners said:


> I think Korra's problem will be more than just dealing with the main villain on a physical level.  As things stand people have a fear towards benders so there is the possibility that she will have to take an approach that doesn't signify bending triumphing the common man.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



@spoiler

That would be interesting to see, since she seems to be more than ready to attack and fight.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 6, 2011)

That music...


----------



## Stunna (Dec 6, 2011)

Pretty sick. Can't wait for a full version.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 6, 2011)

Quaero said:


> That music...


I like how the new music makes your heart rush. 

I wonder if his work or the Avatar music will ever win an award. :9


----------



## Kno7 (Dec 7, 2011)

I can shamefully say that I hadn't noticed how absolutely awesome the music was during my first run through the series. Except when it was blatantly obvious ( the Secret Tunnel song comes to mind).

The music in the few clips we got to see sounds beautiful. The action scenes and animation seem to have taken a step up too. I can hardly wait.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 7, 2011)

I hope that Azula shall appear in _The Promise,_ so that we, the audience, can have closure regarding her fate.

On the subject of Azula, if she had found true romantic love with another person, might she have been different, or was her reaction from kissing Chan an indication of what would happen in any potential relationship of hers?


----------



## Irishwonder (Dec 7, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> Then what chance does the major villain in _Legend of Korra _have? *He's not even a bender*.



I'm calling it right now.


*Spoiler*: __ 



The villian is one of Aang's other sons and the reason he wants to destroy bending is because of the bolded part above.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 7, 2011)

Amon IS a bender, but keeps it a secret.


----------



## Burke (Dec 7, 2011)

Irishwonder said:


> I'm calling it right now.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...





Quaero said:


> Amon IS a bender, but keeps it a secret.



Ah, it seems korra already has some "tobito" theories.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 7, 2011)

Irishwonder said:


> I'm calling it right now.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I like that theory very much; it would be nice for the main villain of the series to have a personal connection to the main hero.



St. Burke said:


> Ah, it seems korra already has some "tobito" theories.



Yes, that is a sign of the popularity of the series, in my mind.


----------



## Pseudo (Dec 7, 2011)

Ending theme is great.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 7, 2011)

It's interesting how differences in language allow the English to interpret Benders & Non-Benders as Gay and Straight people. They get a WHOLE different meaning when Tenzin is talking about the residents of Republic City.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Dec 7, 2011)

just saw the intro and the 1 minute clip.

i really loved Korra voice.  i wonder if that intro is from the first episode or entire series? the first episode of the aang series had a different intro than the other episode had.


----------



## Glued (Dec 7, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I have read and seen numerous instances where viewers believe that fictional groups are used to represent actual groups; for example, one could say that mutants in Marvel Comics are used to represent oppressed minorities, with how they keep their existence a secret and many be treated poorly by non-mutants. Perhaps a similar situation may be present in _The Legend of Korra,_ although I sincerely hope not, as I would like to see peaceful and understanding relationships between benders and non-benders.



The thing about the X-men is they have been used to represent nearly every single minority. Sometimes people who have autism or dyslexia, which many view as disabilities even though they're not.

The Techno-Organic virus shit paralleled the aids virus and mutants were paralleled to gays. How mutants were blamed for no reason for the virus.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Dec 7, 2011)




----------



## Wan (Dec 7, 2011)

Ewwwwwwwwww.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 7, 2011)

Linkdarkside said:


> *Spoiler*: __



.....


----------



## The Big G (Dec 7, 2011)

Korra is my waifu


----------



## The Big G (Dec 7, 2011)

I think Amon is the son of Azula & Ty Lee


----------



## Koi (Dec 7, 2011)

I really want to know what Sokka and Suki's kids are up to. 

Heeeeey maybe that's who Wang Fire II is!


----------



## Noah (Dec 7, 2011)

Incorrect. Their son will actually be named Wang Fire. It turns out Suki's last name is actually Fire and he took her name. We just never heard it, so we didn't know.


----------



## Friday (Dec 8, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Amon IS a bender, but keeps it a secret.



Source? When I randomly check on this thread for new info, I tend to find funny shit.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 8, 2011)

The magical engine of speculation.


----------



## Nayrael (Dec 8, 2011)

I prefer the "Amon is a steampunk Cyborg" theory -_- (well everything is better than an Anti-Bender being a Bender... I am looking forward to them putting up a fight using Steampunk technology)


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 9, 2011)

Quaero said:


> Amon IS a bender, but keeps it a secret.



If I were British, I'd find this statement funny for whole 'nother reason.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 9, 2011)

We get it SS, Bender means homosexual in British English.  You don't have to keep shoving that minute, incredibly old piece of trivia down our throat.


----------



## Wan (Dec 9, 2011)

So, when this thread reaches the post count limit (we all know it will ), are we going to switch over to the Korra thread?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 9, 2011)

Oman said:


> So, when this thread reaches the post count limit (we all know it will ), are we going to switch over to the Korra thread?



Why is there a limit to the number of posts that a thread can have? Would excessive posts occupy too much space on the server that hosts this website?


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 9, 2011)

Mider T said:


> We get it SS, Bender means homosexual in British English.  You don't have to keep shoving that minute, incredibly old piece of trivia down our throat.



The term Airbending was used in Dragonball:Evolution.

How's that grab ya?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 9, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why is there a limit to the number of posts that a thread can have? Would excessive posts occupy too much space on the server that hosts this website?



Did you miss the whole Taz(me)mo?


----------



## Wan (Dec 10, 2011)

So, I was roaming the interwebs and I found this:



It's an interview that the website China Daily did with Gene Yang, the author of the upcoming "The Promise" graphic novel series.  Most amusing to me was this little bit (written by the journalist, not a quote from Lang): "In the original television show, the Japanese fire nation was defeated". Now, the Fire Nation is somewhat inspired by Japan but it's not a carbon copy of it; I don't think a _Chinese_ publication likening the Fire Nation to Japan is a coincidental inaccuracy.   There are probably still some bitter feelings between the two after the events leading up to and during World War II, and had no problem impressing their negative feelings onto the similar Fire Nation.

Also, Lang made a remark about how he was tapped to write "The Promise".  Apparently he was contacted by a Dark Horse editor about writing an Avatar comic _because_ of Yang's web comic criticizing the casting for the movie-that-shall-not-be-named.  He says, "In a weird way, my eventual connection to the property is the result of my being angry about the movie."

Sounds like a guy I would want writing the graphic novels!  Seriously.  I love the fact that Dark Horse went out of their way to find a comic author who loved the series, would treat the story with respect, and knew enough about it so that he wouldn't need his hand to be held in maintaining continuity. (expanded universes that break with continuity is a pet peeve of mine)

Edit: Oh, and cover art for "The Promise, Part 2"!





May or may not have been posted already...

Edit dos:

A nifty behind-the-scenes video of "The Promise" from the author, Gene Yang!


----------



## Glued (Dec 10, 2011)

Steampunk, dear god I hope Korra doesn't become like Beast Machines.

Where the hippie bots were fighting against the uber tech megatron.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 10, 2011)

Hate to tell you this, but the original series (the Fire Nation in particular) _already_ had it's fair share of steampunk. 

*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Glued (Dec 10, 2011)

As long as it doesn't become a theme.

I wanted to throw up when Aang got emo because a forest got burned down.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 10, 2011)

Well the Avatar was originally meant to be the incarnation of the Spirit of the Earth so getting emotional (Emo? C'mon) about a Forest burning down makes sense.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 10, 2011)

How far advanced shall the technology be in _Legend of Korra?_ As only seventy years have passed, I am hoping that the world's technology has not advanced too greatly.

Of course, in the seventy years since World War II, our own technology has increased by a rate unseen even several centuries before that, so I suppose that a similar rate of increase in this series would not be unrealistic, except that it seemed to me that the level of technological development during the first series was slightly less than the level during the World Wars in actuality.

What does everyone else say on this subject?


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 10, 2011)

Well we've seen automobiles. I don't think that the technology will extend farther than what was available in the 1920's from our world. So definitely no steam powered televisions.


----------



## LoT (Dec 10, 2011)

So, three parts of "*The Promise*". I guess we wont see Korra on screen till November 2012.


----------



## Wan (Dec 11, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> As long as it doesn't become a theme.
> 
> I wanted to throw up when Aang got emo because a forest got burned down.



Someone needs to brush up on their Miyazaki.


----------



## Ben Tennyson (Dec 11, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well the Avatar was originally meant to be the incarnation of the Spirit of the Earth so getting emotional (Emo? C'mon) about a Forest burning down makes sense.


this and whit Aang personality it make even more sense.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 11, 2011)

Link to the 2nd part of the Promise?


----------



## Linkdarkside (Dec 11, 2011)

by the leaked intro did they changed the series name again to Avatar:Legend of Korra?

i remember they change it to The Last Air bender: Legend of Korra and a lot of people were piss of.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 11, 2011)

It's honestly hard to say.  For all we know, the leaked intro could have been one of the first things they made, and therefore finished before that decision was made. 

Just have to wait and see I guess.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 11, 2011)

Like I wrote before, I'm not sure why they would affix a title that hasn't been used since August of 2010 to an episode that wasn't fully completed until October.
If M&B ever speak about the leak then we'll maybe know the circumstances. The Track Team are more accessible but I doubt they can speak on anything regarding that.


----------



## Burke (Dec 12, 2011)

Shit, that would be such a buzzkill if youre right stab


----------



## Wan (Dec 13, 2011)

At least we have the intro sequence with the proper title at all that we can edit in to Korra episodes which have been ripped from DVD onto a hard drive


----------



## Quaero (Dec 14, 2011)

Deus Ex?

Good taste man.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 15, 2011)

Does anyone wonder if Tenzin's children shall be important characters, or only background characters? I suppose that, at the very least, they may be learning the art of airbending from their father at the same time that Korra is doing so.


----------



## Wan (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't think they'll be important to the plot, as in they'll be doing their own part to stop the Equalists and the like.  I do think we'll see a fair bit of them just showcasing Tenzin's family life and showing them training alongside Korra.  I predict there will be a bit of comedy regarding the fact that the kids will be better than Korra when she first starts training.


----------



## Kno7 (Dec 15, 2011)

^This pretty much sums it up for me.

Kind of like Mai's little brother in Return to Omashu. That kind of vibe.


----------



## Burke (Dec 15, 2011)

Do NOT know why my subscription to the thread went away


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 16, 2011)

Kno7 said:


> Kind of like Mai's little brother in Return to Omashu. That kind of vibe.



Having mentioned Tom-Tom, Mai's brother, I wonder if he shall ever be developed as a character? Apparently, _The Promise_ is set only shortly after the end of the series, so he shall not yet be sufficiently old to be a major character, but I certainly would not mind seeing him as an adult in _The Legend of Korra,_ as he has never been a major character in any other part of the series. What does everyone else say about that?


----------



## Burke (Dec 16, 2011)

Well tom tom IS the nephew of the man who co-created republic city. Hed only be 71-ish so i mean its completely possible


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 17, 2011)

I have to give the guy who leaked all of those first episode goodies at least some respect. He showed some sort of restraint in not leaking the entire episode which I predicted he would within the first week. Sure he did release screencaps but I'm sure people would have rather seen Welcome to Republic City in it's entirety with all the voice acting, music and sound design that comes with it.


----------



## ~Kyo~ (Dec 17, 2011)

So did the first episode for this series come out yet?>


----------



## Burke (Dec 17, 2011)

no doubt the leaker works for nick and this is simply viral marketing


----------



## Burke (Dec 18, 2011)

bow before the great sifu
B2ties everywhere are flipping tables


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2011)

But...the whole episode was leaked


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 18, 2011)

Sure one can piece together the screencaps and piece together what's going on in the episode but it's not the same as seeing the entire thing animated. But if you want to play semantics then perhaps I should have said that he didn't_ release_ the episode.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 18, 2011)

With both Tenzin and Chief Bei Fong having been revealed, I am wondering if a child of Zuko and Mai shall appear in this series. I certainly hope so, as Zuko was my favorite character in the first series, and one of its most major characters, as well, and I am certain that any descendant of his shall be an important political figure in this story.


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2011)

of course the current firelord will be his son


----------



## Bringer (Dec 19, 2011)

I wonder who Zuko voice actor will play as in the legend of korra.

It is said he will play as a firebender


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 19, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> of course the current firelord will be his son



Or, possibly, his daughter (which would make her the Fire Lady), or even his grandchildren, theoretically speaking.


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2011)

possible   .


----------



## The Big G (Dec 19, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Or, possibly, his daughter (which would make her the Fire Lady), or even his grandchildren, theoretically speaking.



I'd say the odds favor that its the current Fire Lord/Lady is Zuko's child as opposed to Grandchild. People in the Avatar world live pretty damn long, especially in Zuko's family. Sozin and Azulon ruled right up till they died, and when they died they were OLD. So you figure that Zuko ruled probably till he was 60+ and passed the torch to his kid. And Korra is roughly set 70-80 years after the first show. So i'd say its more likely that the current ruler of the Fire Nation is Zuko's child as opposed to grand child.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Dec 19, 2011)

Or the Fire Lord could still be Zuko.  After all, Katara's alive, so we know that whole "all the older generation are dead" isn't true.


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2011)

i thought we always knew it was "everyone but katara"


----------



## Bringer (Dec 19, 2011)

Says who.

I put my money that Toph and Sokka are alive. I have a feeling Zuko dead though


----------



## Wan (Dec 19, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Well tom tom IS the nephew of the man who co-created republic city. Hed only be 71-ish so i mean its completely possible



Tom-tom is Zuko's _brother-in-law_, actually.



stab-o-tron5000 said:


> Or the Fire Lord could still be Zuko.  After all, Katara's alive, so we know that whole "all the older generation are dead" isn't true.





St. Burke said:


> i thought we always knew it was "everyone but katara"



The idea that the whole generation is dead came from the voice director Andrea Romano, who made that comment in an interview 9 months or so ago.  Certain fan groups, Avatar Wiki included, took that statement quite literally to mean that EVERYONE was dead.  She didn't make an exception for Katara, but obviously now we know that Katara is alive, so the statement isn't an authoritative one.  I think Romano meant that the previous generation was "dead" in the sense that they won't play an important role in the show


----------



## Burke (Dec 19, 2011)

oh, wtf was i talking about


----------



## Noah (Dec 19, 2011)

You, like me, were under the hopeful assumption that Zuko is sustaining himself via lazarus pit?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 22, 2011)

I myself am wondering what became of Sokka during the seventy years after the series: did he and Teo help advance the technological development of the other nations? Did he succeed Piandao as a master of swordsmanship?


----------



## Wan (Dec 22, 2011)

I still think he's 
*Spoiler*: __ 



one of the Order of the White Lotus dudes overseeing Korra's firebending test.




I wouldn't be surprised if he is (or was) the Grand Lotus.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 22, 2011)

Oman said:


> I still think he's
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Is "Grand Lotus" an actual title in this universe? I do not recall it being mentioned in the actual series.


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 22, 2011)

I'm ashamed that I'm so late to this series, but I've never been a big fan of anime. A bunch of friends and co workers told me how good it was, and I started watching Tuesday night. I'm so hooked, it really does just get better and better. At first I thought it might just be childish and goofy, but I'm really enjoying the development of a lot of characters, especially Zuko and Iroh (who I love)

Look forward to finishing the series, been watching it every chance I get.


----------



## Wang Fire (Dec 22, 2011)

Iroh's a BAMF.

His wisdom knows no bounds.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 22, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Is "Grand Lotus" an actual title in this universe? I do not recall it being mentioned in the actual series.


One of the geezers mentions it when the G reach the encampment; I want to say either GramPakku or Piandao. Something along the lines that the order to meet was sent out by a Grand Lotus.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 22, 2011)

Graeme said:


> I'm ashamed that I'm so late to this series, but I've never been a big fan of anime. A bunch of friends and co workers told me how good it was, and I started watching Tuesday night. I'm so hooked, it really does just get better and better. At first I thought it might just be childish and goofy, but I'm really enjoying the development of a lot of characters, especially Zuko and Iroh (who I love)
> 
> Look forward to finishing the series, been watching it every chance I get.



Your statement here reminds me of myself when I first began to follow this series; I also had heard of it from friends, but initially dismissed it because I either had insufficient time to follow it or that it was too childish or silly for me, but I now am very glad that I chose to take the time to watch this series and become a part of its following, for it had far greater depth and intensity that what I had originally presumed. I do hope that you enjoy this series as much as I and the other users here have.



Snow Miser said:


> One of the geezers mentions it when the G reach the encampment; I want to say either GramPakku or Piandao. Something along the lines that the order to meet was sent out by a Grand Lotus.



Thank you very much for that clarification.


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 22, 2011)

I'm about to finish up Book II it seems, very excited to get into the final stretch of things


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 23, 2011)

Graeme said:


> I'm about to finish up Book II it seems, very excited to get into the final stretch of things



Yes, I enjoyed the third season very much, as I felt that it brought an excellent conclusion to the series, although it actually did leave several unresolved plot lines, although I shall not mention those to you yet, so that I do not ruin any surprises for you.


----------



## Wan (Dec 23, 2011)

Graeme said:


> I'm ashamed that I'm so late to this series, but I've never been a big fan of anime. A bunch of friends and co workers told me how good it was, and I started watching Tuesday night. I'm so hooked, it really does just get better and better. At first I thought it might just be childish and goofy, but I'm really enjoying the development of a lot of characters, especially Zuko and Iroh (who I love)
> 
> Look forward to finishing the series, been watching it every chance I get.



I'm glad you're enjoying it.   Once you're done watching it, have no fear: there's a spin-off graphic novel series continuing the adventures of Aang and co. starting in January, and a spin-off animated series premiering late 2012/early 2013, set 70 years after the first series and focused on Korra, a teenage Water Tribe girl who is the Avatar after Aang.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Is "Grand Lotus" an actual title in this universe? I do not recall it being mentioned in the actual series.



As Snow Miser said, *spoiler tagged for the newcomer's benefit*


*Spoiler*: __ 



one of the OWL members refers directly to Iroh as the Grand Lotus when Team Avatar first encounters them.






DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I enjoyed the third season very much, as I felt that it brought an excellent conclusion to the series, although it actually did leave several unresolved plot lines, although I shall not mention those to you yet, so that I do not ruin any surprises for you.



And the good news, as I said, is that there's more to come to wrap all that up! :33


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 23, 2011)

There's a really nice new promo for Avatar airing on Nicktoons.
It's not for another marathon but just for the show itself.
Great collection of clips, dialogue selections, and background music.
Be on the lookout for it.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 23, 2011)

You guys better buy this once it comes out. 


*Spoiler*: __ 





polo ralph lauren


----------



## Wan (Dec 23, 2011)

Ah nuts SS7, you got me on a spree of looking up old Avatar promos on Youtube.  I remember when the promos for Sozin's Comet started airing.  Despite the crappy treatment of the show on the main network, the promos were pretty good.  Nicktoons Network has always treated Avatar well though, to the verge of overplaying it; they marathoned all the episodes in order in the week leading up to the premier of Sozin's Comet.  I didn't have Nicktoons at the time, but I had bought all the DVDs leading up to that point so I was just happy any newcomers could be brought up to speed.

On that note, I work at Target, and they stock both Book 2 and 3 of Avatar (oddly no Book 1, though).  Tonight I noticed that the amount of both on the shelves had been reduced.  Someone's getting Avatar DVDs for Christmas!

I wonder what the promos for Legend of Korra are going to be like...

Edit:  And now I'm stuck wondering again why Avatar was treated like it was.  It got decent ratings!  Even though it was off the main network for half a year, and hardly any reruns were played, the finale pulled the largest ratings the show ever got.  I get the feeling that behind the scenes, SOMEONE  important thought that Avatar just wasn't worthwhile; I'm just glad he/she was proven wrong.


----------



## Burke (Dec 23, 2011)

The fuck is this filetype, i cant open it with anything.


----------



## Burke (Dec 23, 2011)

ah, cbr stands for comic book reader, i had to DL a comic book reader in order to read the comic book >3>

anyways, very good very good, thanks yet again quaero.

I wish i wouldnt have spoiled myself a month ago 
Good story, but went by too fast ;3;


----------



## Kno7 (Dec 23, 2011)

wait wait wait. We might not be getting to see Legend of Korra before *2013*??


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 23, 2011)

Well...nothing's confirmed regarding the airdate but hopefully it'll air in fall of 2012. By that time the Track Team should way be way finished with scoring and adding sound design which I believe are the last elements of an episode.
There's no reason to hold off airing the show for another year if all 12 episodes are in the can and the second season is being worked on as I write this.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 23, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Well...nothing's confirmed regarding the airdate but hopefully it'll air in fall of 2012. By that time the Track Team should way be way finished with scoring and adding sound design which I believe are the last elements of an episode.
> There's no reason to hold off airing the show for another year if all 12 episodes are in the can and the second season is being worked on as I write this.



Unless they are inserting the new episodes in between.


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 23, 2011)

No. That first season is contracted for 12 episodes. The need for more material was accomplished though ordering a second season. This is why Lauren Montgomery was able to leave the DC animated DTV staff to work on Korra.
Nickelodeon will most likely space out the episodes and by the season finale the second season should be ready to debut in about 4 months or so.


----------



## Wan (Dec 23, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I one episode (I cannot recall which), Aang was shown shaving his head, and Sokka shaving his face, but neither Katara nor Toph were shown to be shaving any part of their bodies; does this mean that they do not shave themselves?  (I am attempting to be humorous, of course.)



"Does someone have a razor, 'cuz I got some _hair-y pits!_


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 24, 2011)

Oman said:


> "Does someone have a razor, 'cuz I got some _hair-y pits!_



Are you continuing the humor from my earlier post?


----------



## Wan (Dec 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Are you continuing the humor from my earlier post?


----------



## Jena (Dec 24, 2011)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I one episode (I cannot recall which), Aang was shown shaving his head, and Sokka shaving his face, but neither Katara nor Toph were shown to be shaving any part of their bodies; does this mean that they do not shave themselves?  (I am attempting to be humorous, of course.)





/serious response:
Aang and Sokka were shaving in front of a mirror. Girls shave in the shower or bath (or river/lake/stream, if they were traveling). Toph is a bit young to shave and, judging by her reaction to makeup, she probably doesn't. Katara must shave when she's alone.


----------



## Burke (Dec 24, 2011)

we are talking about legs, of course... gentlemen


----------



## Jena (Dec 24, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> we are talking about legs, of course... gentlemen



Oh, of course. Whatever else would you shave?


----------



## Wan (Dec 24, 2011)

Oooooookay, that's two threads here that have gone to weird places tonight.

So!  I have an idea for a fanmade trailer.  Thinking about doing it myself for once.  Anyone have a download link to the correct speed Korra trailer?  I need the footage.


----------



## Wan (Dec 24, 2011)

The Mass Effect 3 thread in the Gaming Department.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 24, 2011)

Oman said:


> The Mass Effect 3 thread in the Gaming Department.



Yes, thank you very much.


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

About halfway through Book 3. Enjoyed seeing a more light side of the... Fire Kids? Dunno what unofficial name you all have for them, but the little homage to a teen summer vacation with them was adorable. Although my respect for Zuzu dropped at the beginning of the season, it is slowly rising again.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 24, 2011)

There are a number who despise _The Beach_; some refuse to acknowledge its existence.

Me, I was fine with the episode.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Dec 24, 2011)

Graeme said:


> About halfway through Book 3. Enjoyed seeing a more light side of the... Fire Kids? *Dunno what unofficial name you all have for them*, but the little homage to a teen summer vacation with them was adorable. Although my respect for Zuzu dropped at the beginning of the season, it is slowly rising again.



Ozai's Angels + Zuko? that's the fan name I heard getting tossed around for Azula and co back when season 2 was on 



Snow Miser said:


> There are a number who despise _The Beach_; some refuse to acknowledge its existence.
> 
> Me, I was fine with the episode.



I was fine with it. I primarily liked it for the sole reason that we got development for Ty Lee and Azula


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> There are a number who despise _The Beach_; some refuse to acknowledge its existence.
> 
> Me, I was fine with the episode.



For me, Book 3 really humanizes the fire nation. This took it a step further, and de-vilified that group (except maybe Azula) They are just teenagers, and it was pretty nice to see what brought them to where they are.


Or maybe I'm not taking the show so seriously, cause I'm having fun with it


----------



## Stunna (Dec 24, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I was fine with it. I primarily liked it for the sole reason that we got development for Ty Lee and Azula


Thought it was a bit contrived on the former's behalf, I too like the episode a lot.


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

I've decided that I am certainly Water Tribe. I figure as a Pisces named Jason, it is fate. Water sign whose name means "healer", c'mon


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Dec 24, 2011)

Graeme said:


> About halfway through Book 3. Enjoyed seeing a more light side of the... Fire Kids? Dunno what unofficial name you all have for them,



Another possible one could be _Zucrew_ or _Zukrew_ maybe.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 24, 2011)

I'm a Taurus whose name means "a tiler of roofs". I'm definitely an earthbender. This pleases me.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 24, 2011)

I'm an Aquarius whose name means "will, helmet." I get no clear clues.


----------



## Burke (Dec 24, 2011)

Virgo whos name means bright star 
Id classify virgo as air perhaps, and bright star would definetly be fire...

screw it, im earthbender, idc what anyone says


----------



## Stunna (Dec 24, 2011)

Earthbender's are such bosses. I wish I was one IRL. Impenetrable defense and overwhelming offense.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Dec 24, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Virgo whos name means bright star
> Id classify virgo as air perhaps, and bright star would definetly be fire...
> 
> screw it, im earthbender, idc what anyone says


From wikipedia: The sign is governed by Mercury, the planet of dexterity, communication, interchange of ideas and study. Mercury is also exalted in this sign, which as an 'earth-sign' is marked by practicality and perseverance.​


----------



## Burke (Dec 24, 2011)

Snow Miser said:


> From wikipedia: The sign is governed by Mercury, the planet of dexterity, communication, interchange of ideas and study. Mercury is also exalted in this sign, which as an 'earth-sign' is marked by practicality and perseverance.​



:sanji                .


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

I love how it dawned on me that a water bender had potential to 


*Spoiler*: __ 



control the bodies of others, an episode before it actually happened




Definitely a huge plus for an element that has defense, offense, and healing properties in some cases.


----------



## Vault (Dec 24, 2011)

Im a aquarius whose name means "Son of nobleman". Am i doing it right?


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

Vault said:


> Im a aquarius whose name means "Son of nobleman". Am i doing it right?



erfist


----------



## Burke (Dec 24, 2011)

no spoilertags in this thread man 

talk freely brah


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

Ah okay, cool.

So, I'm not great at really judging people's power in comparison to others, OBD style, but is Ty Lee overpowered? Just saw her rock Azula, albeit it from behind. Seems like her skillset is VERY unique in that world.


----------



## Vault (Dec 24, 2011)

Ty Lee was broken


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

Her and Mai together seem like one of the best teams I've ever seen.


----------



## Vault (Dec 24, 2011)

I would have Toph in my team to be honest, much more versatile.

Toph and Ty Lee is the team


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

Yeah, Toph is impressive. This show has like... 6 awesomely good females, and 2 great/1 decent male.


----------



## Vault (Dec 24, 2011)

The females are very good in Avatar and i like that 

2 great males  Zuko and Sokka and Aang being decent right?


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

Well, I haven't finished it yet, but I'd consider Aang and Zuzu great, and Sokka decent. I mean, who has more versatility than Aang? Sokka was almost useless besides dumb luck until he got that sword and some training.


----------



## Vault (Dec 24, 2011)

Oh you mean fighting wise not character wise  Silly me. But interms of fighting Sokka is pretty much useless.


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 24, 2011)

For a guy who is so willing and ready to give up being driven by hate, Zuzu almost seems to poison Katara's mentality in the episode where they go to avenge her mother. He laughs off Aang's words, when it really just seemed to be his own beliefs a few episodes back.

Maybe he just wanted her forgiveness that bad?


----------



## Vault (Dec 24, 2011)

I think he did that for the mere fact that Katara needed closure on her issues and also to finally gain her trust.


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 25, 2011)

Makes sense. Watching the episode where they watch the play about themselves.

"Did Jet just... die?"
"Ya know, it was really unclear."

I fucking died myself


----------



## Vault (Dec 25, 2011)

That's a very good episode I thought, was a very clever way to recap. .


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2011)

I miss Jet.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> I miss Jet.



I believe that if Longshot and Smellerbee ever had a child, if it was a son, they would name him Jet, in honor of their friend.

Also, am I the only person here who read _The Promise, Part I_ from the link that Quaero provided? No one else here has mentioned it at all, and I was hoping to discuss it with the other users here.


----------



## Burke (Dec 25, 2011)

i have DDJ


----------



## Bringer (Dec 25, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ8aLRnd80k[/YOUTUBE]


Best moment in avatar


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2011)

Sorry, but _this_ is the best moment in Avatar:


----------



## Bringer (Dec 25, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Sorry, but _this_ is the best moment in Avatar:


----------



## Furious George (Dec 25, 2011)

Graeme said:


> Makes sense. Watching the episode where they watch the play about themselves.
> 
> "Did Jet just... die?"
> "Ya know, it was really unclear."
> ...



Best episode in the series.  

"Did I mention I'm an incurable prankster?"


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 25, 2011)

Just finished the series, very happy with it. My only complaint really is that it is over. The Azula vs Zuko fight was great. Aang's final Avatar state was cool as hell too!


Anyone else appreciate Ty lee joining the Kyoshi Warriors? She was originally frustrated by looking like the rest of her sisters, and being considered part of a set. And now she is in a new sisterhood where everyone looks near identical


----------



## Burke (Dec 25, 2011)

Wow graeme, i never noticed that


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2011)

I        did.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Dec 25, 2011)

_The ironing is delicious..._


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 25, 2011)

I read on the wiki that Azula was sent to a mental health facility, and had to be monitored around the clock. Anyone know how legit this is? Certainly plausible, but I really just started to pity her at the end.

Even if her maniac fighting is what made her lose, it was still so G it was almost H.


----------



## Burke (Dec 25, 2011)

Must have been some obscure Bryke interview, other than that, nowhere in canon has it been stated


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 25, 2011)

Hardcore fans like myself could actually go to Nickelodeon's Avatar page and get tidbits of info like that. Anything written there was canon. Yes, Azula was sent to a mental health facility. Another thing never really shown in the actual series itself was that The Earth King had multiple wives.

I just read a tweet that Nickelodeon will release their 2012 lineup of shows, tomorrow the 26th. Crossing my fingers for Korra.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 26, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> i have DDJ



In that case, what is your opinion of the comic? Did you enjoy it? Do you consider it to be a worthy continuation of the epic story that was told in the original television series?


----------



## Koi (Dec 26, 2011)

Whoa, what?  Kuei was a pimpmaster?


----------



## Burke (Dec 26, 2011)

It was great 



Superstarseven said:


> Hardcore fans like myself could actually go to Nickelodeon's Avatar page and get tidbits of info like that. Anything written there was canon. Yes, Azula was sent to a mental health facility. Another thing never really shown in the actual series itself was that The Earth King had multiple wives.
> 
> I just read a tweet that Nickelodeon will release their 2012 lineup of shows, tomorrow the 26th. Crossing my fingers for Korra.



Any word yet?



> Ms. Jove - 905
> Terra Branford - 827
> ReikaiDemon - 727
> St. Burke - 711
> ...



Thread superstars 

I must beat reikai before 10,000!


----------



## Jena (Dec 26, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Sorry, but _this_ is the best moment in Avatar:


----------



## MitsukiShiroi (Dec 26, 2011)

Graeme said:


> I read on the wiki that Azula was sent to a mental health facility, and had to be monitored around the clock. Anyone know how legit this is? Certainly plausible, but I really just started to pity her at the end.
> 
> Even if her maniac fighting is what made her lose, it was still so G it was almost H.



Bryke confirmed it in an interview just after the finale. :33


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 27, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> Another thing never really shown in the actual series itself was that The Earth King had multiple wives.





Koi said:


> Whoa, what?  Kuei was a pimpmaster?



I would definitely be interested to learn more about that; it is very unfortunate that that situation was not explored in the actual series; I suppose that it was not mentioned because it simply was not important to the overall plot. What about Ozai, in that case? As the Fire Lord, did he have multiple consorts apart from Ursa, I wonder?



St. Burke said:


> It was great



Is that all that you have to say about it?



St. Burke said:


> Thread superstars
> 
> I must beat reikai before 10,000!



Being one of the top posters in this thread is a source of great pride and joy for me, although I still am rather displeased that you usurped me for having the fourth-highest post count in this thread. As much as I do not like to admit it, your lead is too great for me to regain my former position, but at least Oman, who is sixth in this thread, is a great distance behind me and is not likely to surpass me at any point in the near future.


----------



## Wan (Dec 27, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Thread superstars
> 
> I must beat reikai before 10,000!



Should be easy, Rekky unfortunately doesn't post much these days.  Maybe the whole Akimichi Juro trolling drove her away.

Trying to pass DDJ, though...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 27, 2011)

Oman said:


> Trying to pass DDJ, though...



I wish you good luck in that endeavor, although I myself am working to surpass St. Burke, so it seems that we are now competing with each other, in a friendly manner, of course.


----------



## Burke (Dec 27, 2011)

Are you sure you want to play this game of shadows demon dragon.


----------



## MitsukiShiroi (Dec 27, 2011)

Ugh, the movie is on TV here now. So disappointing compared to the series. :<


----------



## Wang Fire (Dec 27, 2011)

MitsukiShiroi said:


> Ugh, the movie is on TV here now. So disappointing compared to the series. :<



I remember being so excited when I first heard they were making a movie adaptation. 

Can't believe I spent money to watch that


----------



## MitsukiShiroi (Dec 27, 2011)

I don't think I've ever been _that_ disappointed in a movie. I didn't particularly like the cast either or see them as the right fits for the characters themselves.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 27, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Are you sure you want to play this game of shadows demon dragon.



I am very certain, St. Burke; this is a game that two can play. 

And even if I cannot surpass you in number of posts in this thread, I hold the highest post count in both the _Teen Titans_ and _Digimon Xros Wars_ threads, and I also have the higher overall post count (not that I am attempt to boast about those accomplishments, of course ).


----------



## Burke (Dec 27, 2011)

a boaster you prove to be sir


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 28, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> a boaster you prove to be sir



I am glad to see that you are not taking this contest too seriously, as I am not, either.


----------



## Jena (Dec 28, 2011)

narutoguy03 said:


> I remember being so excited when I first heard they were making a movie adaptation.
> 
> Can't believe I spent money to watch that





Accurate comic is accurate.


----------



## Wang Fire (Dec 28, 2011)

where can i get that arrow shirt?

it's so cool


----------



## Friday (Dec 28, 2011)

Anyone have any favorite regions/sceneries? I wonder if the Western Air Temple, or every other temple for that matter, was rebuilt.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2011)

I was actually excited when it was live-action. I don't get the point in theatrical animated movies for animated shows.


----------



## Glued (Dec 28, 2011)

At least Avatar didn't get as badly raped as the Jonah Hex movie.


----------



## kereto56 (Dec 28, 2011)

wery good board.


----------



## Burke (Dec 28, 2011)

Congradulations and happy birthday, Korra has an official release of Fall 2012
固然我不想过要他的许诺


----------



## MitsukiShiroi (Dec 28, 2011)

can't wait to see it.

I'm always a bit weary about spin-offs though. :/


----------



## Quaero (Dec 28, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> Congradulations and happy birthday, Korra has an official release of Fall 2012
> 固然我不想过要他的许诺



Praise Byrke!


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 28, 2011)

If anyone else is* leery* about Korra, then perhaps their attention should be put on the TMNT series remake airing on the same channel.
2 action shows airing on Nickelodeon. Maybe they'll air at 8 & 8:30pm on Friday.

Hey, here's that Nicktoons image spot I wrote about a few pages ago.
There might be an ad before it plays so don't punch out early.
Check it out


----------



## Raiden (Dec 28, 2011)

Was there any more info on what happened between Zuko and Mei after the series finished?


----------



## Superstarseven (Dec 28, 2011)

Everything between Mai and Zuko after the finale will be shown in the comic.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 28, 2011)

I still find it to be very odd that Mai and Ty Lee never even spoke to each other in _The Promise;_ are they not best friends?


----------



## Burke (Dec 29, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> If anyone else is* leery* about Korra, then perhaps their attention should be put on the TMNT series remake airing on the same channel.
> 2 action shows airing on Nickelodeon. Maybe they'll air at 8 & 8:30pm on Friday.
> 
> Hey, here's that Nicktoons image spot I wrote about a few pages ago.
> ...



Thats... beyond amazing... i like this


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Dec 29, 2011)

Am I the only one who was disappointed when Guru Pathik completely disappeared after he was seen in that one episode? It would have been badass if he ended up being apart of the Order of the White Lotus.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 29, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Am I the only one who was disappointed when Guru Pathik completely disappeared after he was seen in that one episode? It would have been badass if he ended up being apart of the Order of the White Lotus.



I also am very disappointed that Pathik was never seen or mentioned again, but I do not think that him being a member of the Order of the White Lotus would have been in-character for him, as he preferred to avoid the struggles of the nations and live in isolation.

Also, what would happen if a bender other than the Avatar mastered their _chakra?_ What about an ordinary non-bender? I would like to see those possibilities explored at some point in the story.


----------



## Burke (Dec 29, 2011)

Maybe things like see bits of earth inside of metal


----------



## Ms. Jove (Dec 29, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> If anyone else is* leery* about Korra, then perhaps their attention should be put on the TMNT series remake airing on the same channel.
> 2 action shows airing on Nickelodeon. Maybe they'll air at 8 & 8:30pm on Friday.
> 
> Hey, here's that Nicktoons image spot I wrote about a few pages ago.
> ...



What a somber commercial.

Just heard the leaked end credit music... quite somber itself. Not that we ever hear the end credit music, anyway.


----------



## Jena (Dec 29, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> If anyone else is* leery* about Korra, then perhaps their attention should be put on the TMNT series remake airing on the same channel.
> 2 action shows airing on Nickelodeon. Maybe they'll air at 8 & 8:30pm on Friday.
> 
> Hey, here's that Nicktoons image spot I wrote about a few pages ago.
> ...



This video makes me want to rewatch _Avatar_. 
Well, I've only seen every episode at least three times. What's four?


----------



## Wan (Dec 30, 2011)

Superstarseven said:


> If anyone else is* leery* about Korra, then perhaps their attention should be put on the TMNT series remake airing on the same channel.
> 2 action shows airing on Nickelodeon. Maybe they'll air at 8 & 8:30pm on Friday.
> 
> Hey, here's that Nicktoons image spot I wrote about a few pages ago.
> ...



That's...as Jove said, very somber.  Almost touching, even. Should have had The Last Agni Kai playing though.



DemonDragonJ said:


> I still find it to be very odd that Mai and Ty Lee never even spoke to each other in _The Promise;_ are they not best friends?



Not the focus of the comic, I guess.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 30, 2011)

Oman said:


> Not the focus of the comic, I guess.



Yes, that does make sense, to me.


----------



## ~Kyo~ (Dec 30, 2011)

I wonder alot about Iroh's Past, and alot of things before the whole Zuko/Aang Era. I wonder if nick will ever pick up on making some what of a prequel to this series maybe on a previous avatar or just following the lifestyles of certain benders just when they were Younger Like the Earth King or just the history of Omashu itself. That kinda stuff actually intrigues me. Im very excited for Korra though~


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Dec 30, 2011)

~Kyo~ said:


> I wonder alot about Iroh's Past, and alot of things before the whole Zuko/Aang Era. *I wonder if nick will ever pick up on making some what of a prequel to this series* maybe on a previous avatar or just following the lifestyles of certain benders just when they were Younger Like the Earth King or just the history of Omashu itself. That kinda stuff actually intrigues me. Im very excited for Korra though~




If it was set in the years leading up to Aang's return, that'd be a pretty sad story. It'd just be the Fire Nation raping Water tribes & smaller Earth kingdom towns... And Sokka fishing.


----------



## Zhariel (Dec 30, 2011)




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## ~Kyo~ (Dec 30, 2011)

In Brightest Day! said:


> If it was set in the years leading up to Aang's return, that'd be a pretty sad story. It'd just be the Fire Nation raping Water tribes & smaller Earth kingdom towns... And Sokka fishing.



Talking about back before that when iroh was young.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 30, 2011)

The war started when Aang went to the iceberg, a few years before Iroh was born

Like fourty

The ir nation had already been genocided


----------



## Koi (Dec 30, 2011)

I forgot about the Iroh thing.  I REALLY hope we finally gain some insight on his experiences with the Spirit World.. even though they're going to be totally depressing.


----------



## Wan (Dec 30, 2011)

If Avatar was a Japanese show we probably would have had an OVA of Iroh's past by now...


----------



## Koi (Dec 30, 2011)

~and Zutara would have happened~~~


----------



## Burke (Dec 30, 2011)

and multiple studios would work on the lower quality animation just so we could ahve an endless amount of episodes


----------



## Wan (Dec 31, 2011)

St. Burke said:


> and multiple studios would work on the lower quality animation just so we could ahve an endless amount of episodes



Come now.  The Fullmetal Alchemist shows, Cowboy Bebop, etc....not all anime are like that.  It's usually just the manga-based ones that have to wait for the manga to give them new material.


----------



## Quaero (Dec 31, 2011)

Speaking of an "Iroh Gaiden", I think these are the closest we'll ever get to one.


----------



## Raiden (Dec 31, 2011)

Iroh was my favorite character lol.


----------



## Glued (Dec 31, 2011)

Alas there will never be a Combustion Man OVA.


----------



## Time Expired (Dec 31, 2011)

Oh I miss Iroh.  I could use an Iroh in life right now 

...and happy new year.


----------



## Koi (Jan 1, 2012)

Young!Iroh?  I'd totally hit it.


Also FUCK I kind of don't want to see the Lu Ten thing fleshed out more because ugly crying _for days._


----------



## Wan (Jan 1, 2012)

Quaero said:


> Speaking of an "Iroh Gaiden", I think these are the closest we'll ever get to one.



Wait, is this in any way official, or is it just fanart?


----------



## Burke (Jan 1, 2012)

Quaero said:


> Speaking of an "Iroh Gaiden", I think these are the closest we'll ever get to one.



Whatever, i accept this as canon.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 1, 2012)

They were made by rufftoon, who was a fan artist who was added into the animation team of the series because of her dedication.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 1, 2012)

The short cut hair might be confusing but Rufftoon is a she.
There's really no amazing story in her being added to the team as I originally thought. She'd already been a professional artist who worked on some local animated series in Canada. The Avatar bug bit her hard so soon came the fanart and then a spot opened up for a storyboard artist during the production of Season 3.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 1, 2012)

Even though I've seen these comics many times, this is the first time I realized Jeong Jeong is the other general.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 1, 2012)

Koi said:


> ~and Zutara would have happened~~~



Why do you say that?



Quaero said:


> Speaking of an "Iroh Gaiden", I think these are the closest we'll ever get to one.



Wow: that is so very awesome, Quaero. Thank you very much for those images! I really like how they provide greater depth for Iroh's character, showing his motivations and behavior. I also am surprised to see that there is such a drastic age difference between him and Ozai; I thought that they were much closer in age, but this does explain why Ozai looks so much younger than does Iroh. I also see that the second-to-final image seems to suggest that succession of the throne in the Fire Nation is patrilineal, which makes me wonder what Ozai would have done with Azula if he had succeeded in his quest for world domination and Zuko had not returned to the Fire Nation.

SuperStarSeven: I must disagree that RuffToon's story is not amazing; being selected to work on the storyboard of a major animated series such as this on the basis of one's artwork is nothing short of miraculous, in my mind. _TvTropes_ calls that the "promoted fanboy" trope (which is not the same as "ascended fanboy" trope); that is the equivalent of a fan of Marvel Comics submitting their artwork and then being hired because the editors were impressed by it, or of a fan of _Star Wars_ eventually becoming an author who writes in the canonical expanded universe.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 1, 2012)

Johanne had already been in the business for awhile. If she hadn't had any experience in storyboarding then she wouldn't have been considered for the job--let alone hired.
To go from making cartoons in your home with, no formal training, and to then get hired for a major animated series would indeed be miraculous. 
Her experience in animation dates all the way back to 1991.


----------



## Burke (Jan 1, 2012)

> Why do you say that?



Because their character archetypes are always OTP in shounen anime.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 1, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> Johanne had already been in the business for awhile. If she hadn't had any experience in storyboarding then she wouldn't have been considered for the job--let alone hired.
> To go from making cartoons in your home with, no formal training, and to then get hired for a major animated series would indeed be miraculous.
> Her experience in animation dates all the way back to 1991.



I see; I suppose that the story is not as extraordinary as I first presumed it to be, but I shall still say that I find it to be impressive, nevertheless.



St. Burke said:


> Because their character archetypes are always OTP in shounen anime.



I am a great fan of _shonen_ manga and anime, and have followed numerous series over the years of my life, so I am sorry to need to ask you this, but could you provide some specific examples, please?


----------



## Glued (Jan 1, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am a great fan of _shonen_ manga and anime, and have followed numerous series over the years of my life, so I am sorry to need to ask you this, but could you provide some specific examples, please?



Shounen can go either way, but whether its a silent badass like Yoh and Inuyasha or a lovable goof like Goku or Kid Muscle, most shounen heroes end up with an irate woman who yells a lot.

Aang and Katara are similar to Goku, Kid Muscle or Gohan with their significant other.

Now it was Shoujo, than it would definitely be Zutara. In Shoujo, the loud mouth girl ends up with the silent badass pretty boy. Hell, in Shoujo, even the silent girl ends up with the silent badass pretty boy.

American cartoons usually the badass girl will end up with a loser boy.
or
Helpless damsel will fall in love with a knight in shining armor/Superman.


----------



## Wan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> Shounen can go either way, but whether its a silent badass like Yoh and Inuyasha or a lovable goof like Goku or Kid Muscle, most shounen heroes end up with an irate woman who yells a lot.
> 
> Aang and Katara are similar to Goku, Kid Muscle or Gohan with their significant other.
> 
> ...



These trends may have to do with the authors and the culture, really.  I don't know too much about the culture of Japan, but I'll venture that the lovable goof/irate woman shounen trend has to do with how male Japanese authors view themselves and how they view that they are treated by women, while girls, whether loud mouth or quiet, ending up with silent badasses in shoujo is a reflection of what female Japanese authors find sexually desirable.  Also, it could have to do with the intended audience, in order to make shounen more relatable to boys and shoujo relatable to girls.

This applies just as much to Western animation, as well.  In America, being an animation fan is seen as kind of nerdy at best, so male authors relate to the "loser" characters and find the badass girls sexually desirable.  Western females find the whole "knight in shining armor" concept to be what they desire.

These are all just my musings, of course, so correct me if you think I'm wrong.  But I'll add a couple examples to the list:  Kim Possible/Ron Stoppable and to a lesser extent Sam Manson/Danny Fenton as the Western strong female/loser guy pairing; Edward Elric/Winry Rockbell as the Japanese goofy guy/loud woman pairing.  I'm sure there are counterexamples that exist, but I have a feeling that whatever romance Korra gets into will land squarely on the loser guy/strong female side.


----------



## Wang Fire (Jan 2, 2012)

so the Avatar marathon just finished.

Great way to start the New Year.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 2, 2012)

Have I ever told you I love this thread?


----------



## Glued (Jan 2, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I thank you both very much for those examples, but I notice that in most of them, the two characters involved are usually the opposites of each other in terms of personality. Why can there not be a romantic couple in which both characters are very similar in terms of personality?



Drama, opposites attract bullshit.

If you have two people who are similar, than they're not going to complain with each other.


----------



## Glued (Jan 2, 2012)

Oman said:


> This applies just as much to Western animation, as well.  In America, being an animation fan is seen as kind of nerdy at best, so male authors relate to the "loser" characters and find the badass girls sexually desirable. * Western females find the whole "knight in shining armor" concept to be what they desire.*
> .



I always hear differently, that the knight in shining armor is a male power fantasy and that girls are actually sick of it.


----------



## Burke (Jan 2, 2012)

Which is why i love the fact that aang and katara are similar in many ways


----------



## Glued (Jan 2, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Which is why i love the fact that aang and katara are similar in many ways



Not really, no. 

"You won't have to worry about your destiny."

You can say a lot of things about Aang, but Katara threatened to "END" Zuko and I think she meant it.

She also gives speeches.

I didn't see Aang give a single speech during the show.

Katara is hardwork *Bullshit outperforms all of Pakku's students with no formal training*

Aang is naturally talented

Aang can be self-absorbed at times, while Katara can be overprotective of others.


----------



## Burke (Jan 2, 2012)

Whats a nine month wait to an avatar fan


----------



## Wan (Jan 3, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Whats a nine month wait to an avatar fan



Hell.

ten char


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 3, 2012)

Oman said:


> Hell.
> 
> ten char



Why are you being so negative? I am certain that there are plenty of other ways for your to occupy yourself while waiting for the new series to premiere.

On that subject, does anyone here have any idea when the new _Thundercats_ series shall continue? I was very much enjoying that series, and now it appears to be on hiatus, again, only this time with no indication of when it shall continue. Now _that_ is frustrating, in my mind.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 3, 2012)

A 9 month wait is shit.

I feel the same way about Korra that I do about a AAA videogame title. If the devs feel they need another 9-12 months to turn a 8 into a 10 go right the fuck ahead.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 3, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> valve



Valve is a special case. 

Gabe's mass curves the space continuum in such a way that the time at the company passes much slower than for us outside of his ratio of influence.  

This phenomenon is commonly known as "Valve Time."


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 3, 2012)

I see your Korra and raise you Jordan and Martin.


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> valve






Quaero said:


> Valve is a special case.
> 
> Gabe's mass curves the space continuum in such a way that the time at the company passes much slower than for us outside of his ratio of influence.
> 
> This phenomenon is commonly known as "Valve Time."




Half Life 3..


----------



## Detective (Jan 3, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Whats a nine month wait to an avatar fan



Pregnant women throughout history have absolutely nothing on the Avatar fandom.


----------



## Burke (Jan 3, 2012)

Detective said:


> Pregnant women throughout history have absolutely nothing on the Avatar fandom.



detective is pregnant you guys!


----------



## Platinum (Jan 4, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> valve



And every valve game is worth it .


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 4, 2012)

This also probably means that the wait for second season of Korra won't be too long. 
If it's only 4 months--perfect.


----------



## Burke (Jan 4, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> This also probably means that the wait for second season of Korra won't be too long.
> If it's only 4 months--perfect.



if it keeps with western cartoon schedules, it would be released the subsequent fall, 2013, the best case scenario is a summer release


----------



## Wan (Jan 4, 2012)

So, last night I dreamed that there was an Avatar: The Complete Series box set on blu-ray.  Probably because my family got a blu-ray player for Christmas.  In the dream I tried finding it to buy, but I couldn't, perhaps because deep down I knew there was no such thing and that I must be dreaming. 

I hope that Korra gets broadcast in HD and released on blu-ray.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 4, 2012)

Snow Miser said:


> I see your Korra and raise you Jordan and Martin.



Excellent response, Snow Miser; those authors took forever to release new books in their respective series, so waiting nine months for the new _Avatar_ series shall be easy compared to the waits for _A Dace with Dragons_ or _Crossroads of Twilight._

On that subject, I actually am more excited about _The Promise,_ as it is a direct continuation of the first series and explores very complex issues. Does anyone here hope that Kori, the daughter of Mayor Morishita and an earthbender who identifies herself as a citizen of the Fire Nation, may be a major character in that story, or was she simply present to provide exposition and drive the plot?


----------



## Burke (Jan 4, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Excellent response, Snow Miser; those authors took forever to release new books in their respective series, so waiting nine months for the new _Avatar_ series shall be easy compared to the waits for _A Dace with Dragons_ or _Crossroads of Twilight._
> 
> On that subject, I actually am more excited about _The Promise,_ as it is a direct continuation of the first series and explores very complex issues. Does anyone here hope that Kori, the daughter of Mayor Morishita and an earthbender who identifies herself as a citizen of the Fire Nation, may be a major character in that story, or was she simply present to provide exposition and drive the plot?



definitly the latter


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 4, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> definitly the latter



That is most unfortunate, as I find her to be extremely intriguing and full of growth potential. Her unique status (being an earthbender who considers herself a Fire Nation citizen) gives the storywriters a great opportunity to explore the issues of mixed ethnicity and the possibility of identity crisis that can be associated with it.


----------



## Wan (Jan 4, 2012)

Driving the plot along is better than being just a throwaway character.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 5, 2012)

It's clear after reading the Promise where Republic City will be built.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 5, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> if it keeps with western cartoon schedules, it would be released the subsequent fall, 2013, the best case scenario is a summer release



Prime time animated series usually stick to fall season premieres. 
I can usually depend on Family Guy and The Simpsons to begin a new season in September. Those 12 episodes will most definitely get stretched out though through several months. It does allow for the gap between seasons to shorten.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 5, 2012)

So, I just saw this seriously epic Avatar commercial while I was flicking through TV the other day. I'm sure I'm pretty late seeing it, but wow did that make Avatar look even more amazing.

Had a dramatic, slightly dark feel to it that made me want to watch the show all over again.


----------



## Wan (Jan 5, 2012)

You mean this commercial?

Link removed

Superstarseven posted it a couple pages back. It's great.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jan 5, 2012)

Oman said:


> You mean this commercial?
> 
> Link removed
> 
> Superstarseven posted it a couple pages back. It's great.



Commercial be fucking epic...to think we only get commercials like this now when the show's on re-runs


----------



## Burke (Jan 6, 2012)

I just found out that the current Dalai Lama's name is Tenzin Gyatso



And the search for a new Dalai Lama is much the same as searching for the next avatar, after the death of the previous, they look for a baby to become dalai lama.


----------



## Wan (Jan 6, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> I just found out that the current Dalai Lama's name is Tenzin Gyatso
> 
> 
> 
> And the search for a new Dalai Lama is much the same as searching for the next avatar, after the death of the previous, they look for a baby to become dalai lama.



Yes, both Gyatso and Tenzin's names and the way the Avatar is found are deliberate references to the Dalai Lama.  The Avatar is sometimes jokingly called "Kung Fu Fighting Jesus", but more accurately it's "Kung Fu Fighting Dalai Lama".


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 6, 2012)

Oman said:


> Driving the plot along is better than being just a throwaway character.



Yes, that is the reason for which I hope that she shall be a major character.



St. Burke said:


> I just found out that the current Dalai Lama's name is Tenzin Gyatso
> 
> 
> 
> And the search for a new Dalai Lama is much the same as searching for the next avatar, after the death of the previous, they look for a baby to become dalai lama.



I believe that it is a safe presumption that the writers of this series used the search for the Dalai Lama as an inspiration for the search for the Avatar.

*EDIT:* Oman already posted on this subject, rendering my post redundant and unnecessary.



Oman said:


> Yes, both Gyatso and Tenzin's names and the way the Avatar is found are deliberate references to the Dalai Lama.  The Avatar is sometimes jokingly called "Kung Fu Fighting Jesus", but more accurately it's "Kung Fu Fighting Dalai Lama".



That is exactly what I was planning to say, and I notice that the manner in which you wrote your post is uncannily similar to my own manner of speech. Are you imitating me?


----------



## Burke (Jan 6, 2012)

Honestly i thought it was you saying that before i saw it was Oman 

Anyways its Kung Fu Action Jesus, coined by GanXingba on youtube.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 6, 2012)

Oman said:


> You mean this commercial?
> 
> Link removed
> 
> Superstarseven posted it a couple pages back. It's great.



Yup, that's the one. I liked this commercial more than the one they did for Dragon Ball Z Kai.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 6, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Honestly i thought it was you saying that before i saw it was Oman



Well, I certainly shall not tolerate any other user here mimicking my manner of speech.  There is only one DemonDragonJ on the internet, for it could not handle there being more than one of me.


----------



## Darth (Jan 6, 2012)

Any word on the second chapter of The Promise?


----------



## Burke (Jan 6, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Well, I certainly shall not tolerate any other user here mimicking my manner of speech.  There is only one DemonDragonJ on the internet, for it could not handle there being more than one of me.



Neither could the rest of the world, sir. :ho



Darth said:


> Any word on the second chapter of The Promise?



It comes out in May, cool your toes


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 6, 2012)

Anyone else here share my opinion that The Promise was actually _good_?

The fans over at Avatarspirit.net received it well in the beginning then the buildup to out and out hate happened and I had to get out there. One "fan" wanted to completely deny that it was part of canon. I wanted to bash someone's head in but then I remembered that there are people who are starving to death in the world and the nerd rage was calmed.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 6, 2012)

I enjoyed it. Felt it maintained the lightheartedness of the original series whilst making a realistic continuation of where things left off.


----------



## Shade (Jan 6, 2012)

Wow, I didn't even know it was out. Nobody really talked about the new info too extensively in this thread anyway, either that or I must have missed it. 

SS7, did Nick not announce anything about Korra then in their upcoming lineup? And does that mean we're waiting till 2013?


----------



## Burke (Jan 6, 2012)

Korra has a confirmed release date of Fall 2012


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 6, 2012)

Such an absence like the one I took was sure to have been filled with awesomeness, I'm sure. What did I miss guys?


----------



## Gunners (Jan 7, 2012)

abercrombie

If anyone wants it.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 7, 2012)

What is it?


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2012)

I guess its a Avatar comic.


----------



## Burke (Jan 7, 2012)

Must be pron :ho


----------



## Burke (Jan 7, 2012)

maybe too many young characters like toph. Exactly. I know they dont have any tolerance for straight up lolicon. Which is odd because theres a naruto hentai thread and shit like that, but regardless, i dont think id be all for an avatar thread.

lets get off that subject sir


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 7, 2012)

Gunners said:


> abercrombie
> 
> If anyone wants it.



If anyone of you are still wondering what it is, it is the comic, or so the download is called "Avatar The Last Airbender - The Promise - Part 1.cbr".


----------



## Burke (Jan 7, 2012)

did anyone here download the korra 1 minute clip while it was up


----------



## Burke (Jan 7, 2012)

(CRACKED is a humor website, DDJ. )


----------



## DedValve (Jan 7, 2012)

Gunners said:


> abercrombie
> 
> If anyone wants it.



How do you view it? D:


----------



## Burke (Jan 7, 2012)

DedValve said:


> How do you view it? D:



You must download a .cbr (Comic Book Reader file) reader.


----------



## MitsukiShiroi (Jan 7, 2012)

Daniel Day Lewis.


----------



## DedValve (Jan 7, 2012)

Promise part 1 was awesome 

Have the others been released yet?


----------



## Burke (Jan 7, 2012)

DedValve said:


> Promise part 1 was awesome
> 
> Have the others been released yet?



not till may


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 7, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> You must download a .cbr (Comic Book Reader file) reader.



7-zip worked for me. I just extracted it and viewed it using a normal image viewer, default Windows to be exact.


----------



## Burke (Jan 7, 2012)

I sure do miss jove, alas, Music and his girl are his true loves


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 7, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> I sure do miss jove, alas, Music and his girl are his true loves



Is that why Jove has not posted here recently, because he is busy with relationships?


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 7, 2012)

Well didn't he announce his engagement a year ago?


----------



## Mider T (Jan 7, 2012)

This entire page is like the Ember Island Players...a quick review and rehash of conversations that took place a few pages ago.

EDIT: The last page


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 8, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> Well didn't he announce his engagement a year ago?



I must have completely forgotten about that, it seems.


----------



## Wan (Jan 8, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That is exactly what I was planning to say, and I notice that the manner in which you wrote your post is uncannily similar to my own manner of speech. Are you imitating me?



No, I'm not purposefully imitating you, but it did occur to me "Oh god I'm sounding like DDJ" 



Superstarseven said:


> Anyone else here share my opinion that The Promise was actually _good_?
> 
> The fans over at Avatarspirit.net received it well in the beginning then the buildup to out and out hate happened and I had to get out there. One "fan" wanted to completely deny that it was part of canon. I wanted to bash someone's head in but then I remembered that there are people who are starving to death in the world and the nerd rage was calmed.



Oh wow.  What was the exact wording?


----------



## Burke (Jan 8, 2012)

I really liked the promise and am waiting for the second volume :L
Those assholes are just that.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 8, 2012)

DedValve said:


> How do you view it? D:



Download CDisplay or extract it with winrar.


----------



## Burke (Jan 8, 2012)

Really just downloading a CB reader is the easiest way. its straight up.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 8, 2012)

You really ought not to download any software like that.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 8, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRskuKg89A0[/YOUTUBE]

Music from the leaked fight scene.


----------



## DedValve (Jan 8, 2012)

*Checking old pages*

Wait Katara's alive? This has been confirmed? Holy shit I was just spouting nonsense when I was drunk talking to my friends a while back saying everyone was dead except Katara and now it's true? 

Then again King Bumi was over a 100 years old and he still acted like he was in his prime.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 8, 2012)

DedValve said:


> *Checking old pages*
> 
> Wait Katara's alive? This has been confirmed? Holy shit I was just spouting nonsense when I was drunk talking to my friends a while back saying everyone was dead except Katara and now it's true?
> 
> Then again King Bumi was over a 100 years old and he still acted like he was in his prime.



Yes, it has been confirmed. There is a leak that shows Katara talking in the show.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 8, 2012)

Oman said:


> No, I'm not purposefully imitating you, but it did occur to me "Oh god I'm sounding like DDJ"



Yes, I am like the Borg, slowly and subtly influencing others, bending them to my will and making them act as I want them to.


----------



## Wan (Jan 8, 2012)

Eh, the Borg are more like instant prepare to be assimilated NOW.  Slowly and subtly influencing others is more the realm of, say, a chessmaster Sith.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 8, 2012)

Well, finished the comic.

I liked the comic very much...I just felt like something about Aang seemed (pretty) different.


----------



## Burke (Jan 9, 2012)

Oman said:


> Eh, the Borg are more like instant prepare to be assimilated NOW.  Slowly and subtly influencing others is more the realm of, say, a chessmaster Sith.



How about Q, a bit more fitting, no?


----------



## Burke (Jan 9, 2012)

Promise part 2 spoilers already


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 9, 2012)

Ha. I can't wait for the Zutarian response to that particular panel.
I've got a whole set of rebuttals if they start acting nuts.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> Ha. I can't wait for the Zutarian response to that particular panel.
> I've got a whole set of rebuttals if they start acting nuts.



How can supporters of Zuko/Katara as a couple still be upset at this point in time? The series ended quite some time ago, and both Aang/Katara and Zuko/Mai have been confirmed multiple times as two of the three official couples of the series (the third couple being Sokka/Suki). I myself do wish to see romance between a firebender and a waterbender, but I know that I shall need to search elsewhere, as Zuko and Katara are no longer a logically-viable couple.


----------



## Jena (Jan 10, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How can supporters of Zuko/Katara as a couple still be upset at this point in time? The series ended quite some time ago, and both Aang/Katara and Zuko/Mai have been confirmed multiple times as two of the three official couples of the series (the third couple being Sokka/Suki). I myself do wish to see romance between a firebender and a waterbender, but I know that I shall need to search elsewhere, as Zuko and Katara are no longer a logically-viable couple.



Oh, they find a way.

Some people are refusing to watch the new show _because_ Aang and Katara ended up together. People are fucking crazy when it comes to pairings.


----------



## walton22 (Jan 10, 2012)

i like Avatar but i don't like The Last Airbender At all


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2012)

walton22 said:


> i like Avatar but i don't like The Last Airbender At all



Then why are you posting in this thread?

To change the subject, in _The Promise,_ Toph is seen instructing other earthbenders in the art of bending metal, so I wonder if this comic or other supplementary material shall show Aang attempting to revive the Air Nomads by seeking out potential students in the three remaining nations. What does everyone else say about that? Would you like to see such an occurrence, as well?


----------



## Gunners (Jan 10, 2012)

Earthbenders have the capacity to metal bend. Non benders do not have the capacity to Air bend so no.


----------



## Burke (Jan 10, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Then why are you posting in this thread?
> 
> To change the subject, in _The Promise,_ Toph is seen instructing other earthbenders in the art of bending metal, so I wonder if this comic or other supplementary material shall show Aang attempting to revive the Air Nomads by seeking out potential students in the three remaining nations. What does everyone else say about that? Would you like to see such an occurrence, as well?





Gunners said:


> Earthbenders have the capacity to metal bend. Non benders do not have the capacity to Air bend so no.



Now now gunners, bending ability does not necessarily reside in direct lineage, DDJ does have a point, however unlikely the occurance seems.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 10, 2012)

Aang is pretty much _The_ last airbender up until Tenzin's birth.
There's a good story to be told (I think) in the story of the last remaining airbender following the temple ambushes and how he eluded capture for so long which would lead  up to his eventual demise.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Now now gunners, bending ability does not necessarily reside in direct lineage, DDJ does have a point, however unlikely the occurance seems.



Thank you very much, good sir. 



Superstarseven said:


> Aang is pretty much _The_ last airbender up until Tenzin's birth.
> There's a good story to be told (I think) in the story of the last remaining airbender following the temple ambushes and how he eluded capture for so long which would lead up to his eventual demise.



That story is the entire television series, so I am asking about a sequel to that series, where the destroyed order is rebuilt, a natural and logical action to perform after the end of a war or other struggle. Why can this universe not have such a story?


----------



## Gunners (Jan 11, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Now now gunners, bending ability does not necessarily reside in direct lineage, DDJ does have a point, however unlikely the occurance seems.



I did not say that it did. My point still stands, Toph can teach people to metal bend because if they are an Earthbender they have the capacity to do so. There are Earthbenders around/alive. 

There aren't any airbenders around, only non-benders and benders of other elements so aside from Tenzin, Aang would not be able to teach airbending to anyone else.


----------



## Burke (Jan 11, 2012)

I like to believe that there are benders with latent potential which they never unlocked, for they never had any form of teacher.

People who could spiritually become benders but since all of the nomads and the bison were gone, there was no way they could tap in. It would have been a neat concept to explore. A new excuse for aang to travel the world.


----------



## Bleach (Jan 11, 2012)

Couldn't airbenders bend the air out of your lungs? Too bad they don't believe in that violence lol


----------



## Burke (Jan 11, 2012)

.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 11, 2012)

Bleach said:


> Couldn't airbenders bend the air out of your lungs? Too bad they don't believe in that violence lol



Yes, and a waterbender could disrupt a person's bodily fluids, and a firebender could potentially cause a person to spontaneously combust, but the series is aimed at a young target audience, so I doubt that such concepts shall be explored in great detail, which I find to be very unfortunate.


----------



## Burke (Jan 11, 2012)

I liked rufftoons concept that these were very real elements of bending, but due to a conduct of war, they were not used in battle.


----------



## Shade (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm surprised it wasn't posted yet but Korra may get more than 26 episodes: leveluplive.tv


----------



## Wan (Jan 12, 2012)

Well of course _Nickelodeon_ would allow for more episodes if the show is successful enough.  Whether or not Mike & Bryan plan to continue with the story after 26 episodes is a different question though.


----------



## Burke (Jan 12, 2012)

More interview shit


----------



## Wan (Jan 12, 2012)

^^Flameo, hotman.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 12, 2012)

I have my own fan theory on why people don't bend elements within other people under normal circumstances. (water inside the body, bones, air inside the lungs, etc) 

According to the series, Bending uses chi to manipulate the elements, and we know every person has their own chi. My theory is that this natural chi within everyone disrupts bending attempts from a third party, unless the bender has the power/skill to overcome it (Full moon for waterbenders for example). 

Makes sense IMO.


----------



## Friday (Jan 13, 2012)

So I guess we'll see a more Arabian culture in this upcoming series (although the cityscape makes it seem like a more metropolitan region)? I don't know if it's ever been brought up, but Oman is an arab name.. It would also be cool to have a story on an Ifrit attacking villagers and Korra having to go in her spirit form similar to how Aang did with Hei Bai


----------



## Quaero (Jan 13, 2012)

Friday said:


> So I guess we'll see a more Arabian culture in this upcoming series (although the cityscape makes it seem like a more metropolitan region)? I don't know if it's ever been brought up, but Oman is an arab name.. It would also be cool to have a story on an Ifrit attacking villagers and Korra having to go in her spirit form similar to how Aang did with Hei Bai



Actually, the name is Amon.


----------



## Burke (Jan 13, 2012)

Yeh, Oman just derped.


----------



## Wan (Jan 13, 2012)

Quaero said:


> Actually, the name is Amon.





St. Burke said:


> Yeh, Oman just derped.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 13, 2012)

'Sides, Oman is an actual country IRL.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 13, 2012)

Hey Oman, I have some pics for you.


----------



## Burke (Jan 14, 2012)

Lets get some Gifs and images going



I like how this one flows


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 14, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Lets get some Gifs and images going
> 
> 
> 
> I like how this one flows



That is an oddly colored gif. 

I like it too, though for some reason something about Zuko jumping looks a little weird.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 14, 2012)

It was coloured that way in the series.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Jan 14, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlkBZp5rleA[/YOUTUBE]

at 0:18


----------



## Burke (Jan 14, 2012)

Judge Fudge said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlkBZp5rleA[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> at 0:18



I like this


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 14, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> That is an oddly colored gif.



Zhao has just killed the Moon, so the sky has went dark. Thats why its that colour.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 14, 2012)

We pretty much knew but it's now officially confirmed that the show is called *Avatar*: _The Legend Of Korra_.
I'm sure there's an interesting story into why the title was changed.
Thank goodness that whole TLA:TLOK nonsense is behind us.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 14, 2012)

You're not ready.


----------



## Burke (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks quaero?


----------



## Quaero (Jan 14, 2012)

ralph lauren

got taken down, here, try this one.


----------



## Burke (Jan 14, 2012)

THANKS QUAERO


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 14, 2012)

Quaero said:


> ralph lauren
> 
> got taken down, here, try this one.



Holy shit,she's a beast!


----------



## Quaero (Jan 14, 2012)

Ciupy said:


> Holy shit,she's a beast!



Korra is here to kick ass and kick ass.

No exceptions.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 14, 2012)

I saw Ahsoka decapitate 4 mandalorian warriors on Clone Wars the other day, imagine what Korra could get away with if it had a TV-PG rating.
Generator Rex has a TV-PG rating so let's put that into perspective.


----------



## Wan (Jan 14, 2012)

Quaero said:


> Korra is here to kick ass and kick ass.
> 
> No exceptions.



Don't forget that she's here to kick ass!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you very much for that brief clip, Quaero! I see that benders of different elements are no longer as segregated from each other as they were in the original series, which is a good thing. I see that Korra was attacked by an earthbender, a firebender, and a waterbender, but not an airbender, which is not entirely surprising. I wonder who those men were, and why they attacked her? They certainly were not equalists, who oppose the bending arts, so they were clearly members of some other faction. Every new clip of this series increases my excitement for it further!


----------



## Burke (Jan 15, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Thank you very much for that brief clip, Quaero! I see that benders of different elements are no longer as segregated from each other as they were in the original series, which is a good thing. I see that Korra was attacked by an earthbender, a firebender, and a waterbender, but not an airbender, which is not entirely surprising. I wonder who those men were, and why they attacked her? They certainly were not equalists, who oppose the bending arts, so they were clearly members of some other faction. Every new clip of this series increases my excitement for it further!



Just some street thugs with a high and mightly attitude who i imagine are giving benders a bad reputation in the city.. I imagine equalist sympathizers look at these thugs and see the embodiment of benders who are out of control with their abilities and thus imagine themselves better than non benders.


----------



## Wan (Jan 15, 2012)

I imagine that you can imagine using the word imagine a few more times in a post that we can only imagine.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 15, 2012)

Those clothes, dat tech, dat voice...


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 15, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Just some street thugs with a high and mightly attitude who i imagine are giving benders a bad reputation in the city.. I imagine equalist sympathizers look at these thugs and see the embodiment of benders who are out of control with their abilities and thus imagine themselves better than non benders.



If this series is to feature any "fantastic discrimination" (similar to anti-mutant sentiments in _X-Men),_ I hope that Korra and her companions shall make an effort to prove to the general populace that benders are not all evil and destructive and can actually be beneficial for society. That would be an excellent message to have in this story, in my mind.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 15, 2012)

dat face.


----------



## Burke (Jan 15, 2012)

DONT HOLD OUT ON US QUAERO. IF THERES ANOTHER VIDEO YOU LINK US.



Oman said:


> I imagine that you can imagine using the word imagine a few more times in a post that we can only imagine.



twice 

i do say it a lot though >3>


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 15, 2012)

There are 3 more videos.


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 15, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> There are 3 more videos.



Why must this be released in fall?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 15, 2012)

Time to ponder: spoiler tags or no spoiler tags?


You guys know my policy, but I guess it's a consideration now, especially since in the first video the woman revealed that her you knows are something.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 15, 2012)

Spoiler tags in this thread, no spoiler tags in the Korra one.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 15, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Spoiler tags in this thread, no spoiler tags in the Korra one.



I'm leaning the exact opposite direction.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 15, 2012)

Again, I thank you very much, Quaero, for posting those new videos. However, the website on which they were posted was terribly slow; from my experience, a one-minute flash video should take only one or two seconds at most to load and buffer, but each of those videos took my computer over a minute each, which is not good at all, in my mind.

Anyway, apart from that, I did find the videos themselves to be most interesting.
*Spoiler*: __ 



Why does Korra need to "escape" from the Water Tribe? Is she being held there against her will? I see that Katara confirmed that all the other main characters from the first series are dead, and that Korra's parents are still alive. I was hoping that Korra would be a biological descendant of Sokka and Suki, but it seems to me that the subject of her ancestry shall not be addressed at any significant length in the series. I find it to be very odd that the police are referred to as "metalbending cops," as the term "cop" is derived from the fact that police officers in actuality once wore badges made of copper (similarly to how the phrase "top brass" was derived from the fact that high-ranking military officers wore rank insignia made of brass); so, unless the police in this series wear badges made of copper, the term "cops" is a completely inaccurate misnomer, in my mind.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 15, 2012)

ralph lauren

ralph lauren

ralph lauren

Download links.


----------



## Noah (Jan 15, 2012)

Only one bad thing about these clips.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Sokka confirmed dead.


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 15, 2012)

Noah said:


> Only one bad thing about these clips.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah,and the vast majority of the old cast as well.




Bummer.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 15, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 



"Most of my friends are gone"

Well, at least we know some of them are still alive.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 15, 2012)

And lo and behold, people are already declaring their disinterest in the show, a show about completely different people.


----------



## Burke (Jan 15, 2012)

Ms. Jove said:


> And lo and behold, people are already declaring their disinterest in the show, a show about completely different people.



Where has evidence of this been shown sir jove


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 15, 2012)

Well something has to balance out all the positive response and that something is criticism!



> Not really digging the new "realistic proportions" style over that of the original series. Looks way too "*GI Joe: Renegade*" for my tastes, and thats not a good thing





> Artistic > Realistic
> 
> Bryan needs to sit down and realize it's a cartoon. Had he gone Afro Samurai-style, THAT would have been something to see.





> I'm not a fan of how the characters are drawn. Really preferred the last series style





> I still can't seem to get over the "Americanime" style the whole thing has going. I mean, I like The Boondocks, but this... I don't know.





> Christ, more anime wannabe stuff from Nickelodeon? I thought that fad was over.


----------



## Burke (Jan 15, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> Well something has to balance out all the positive response and that something is criticism!



They obviously have no eye for art. Believe me when i say that the animation has improved greatly.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 15, 2012)

I like the art too.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 15, 2012)

Quaero said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



In that case, the question for me is now: which characters are alive, and which are dead?


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 15, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> Well something has to balance out all the positive response and that something is criticism!



I think that 70% of those people didn't see the original show.

The rest is I guess up to personal opinion,


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jan 15, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, the question for me is now: which characters are alive, and which are dead?




*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that, if anyone, Zuko is still alive.  Being Royalty, he'd have access to the best healthcare his time could offer, as witnessed by both Sozin and Azulon living pretty damn long (Sozin 102 and Azulon 95).


----------



## Burke (Jan 15, 2012)

You know what i noticed? I mean i think i noticed it in the original trailer, but look at the firebender thug. He definetly has the same sort of scarf and general attire of Mako. Id wager that Mako hangs with the wrong crowd from time to time eh? If not, perhaps its just a similar style of cultural identification.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 15, 2012)

I just actually just thinking that he looked familiar.


----------



## hehey (Jan 15, 2012)

Maybe fire benders just wear red scarves to let other people know that they are fire benders, you know, to scare the "normies".


----------



## Jena (Jan 15, 2012)

hehey said:


> Maybe fire benders just wear red scarves to let other people know that they are fire benders, you know, to scare the "normies".



That's what I was thinking.
Wasn't Bolin wearing a green scarf around his waist? And he's an earth bender. Seems like an identification thing.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 15, 2012)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that, if anyone, Zuko is still alive.  Being Royalty, he'd have access to the best healthcare his time could offer, as witnessed by both Sozin and Azulon living pretty damn long (Sozin 102 and Azulon 95).




*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm guessing with the exception of Katara, the entire Gaang has passed away.  Though we only are confirmed Aang and Sokka as of now, Katara strongly hinted at everybody in the inner circle.  People like Smellerbee and Ty Lee could still be around though.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jan 15, 2012)

Mider T said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing with the exception of Katara, the entire Gaang has passed away.  Though we only are confirmed Aang and Sokka as of now, Katara strongly hinted at everybody in the inner circle.  People like Smellerbee and Ty Lee could still be around though.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Toph had better have died awesomely!


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 15, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> There are 3 more videos.



OH MY GOSH! WATCHING IT NOW! 

*rages that connection is slow*


----------



## Burke (Jan 15, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> OH MY GOSH! WATCHING IT NOW!
> 
> *rages that connection is slow*



Did you died?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 15, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Did you died?


No, unless I woke up dead this morning.


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 15, 2012)

OK, I want everyone to PM me their thoughts on spoiler tagging here.


I, for one, abhor them and think that they preclude discussion. BUT, maybe if we specifically tag our spoilers, such as 


*Spoiler*: _Spoiler: Gaang & Korra_ 



Sokka's dead. Wang Fire is not.





So, for those of us in the know, we can come up with specific tags so we know what the hell is going on and people know not to click. And it makes things smoother and efficient.


----------



## Noah (Jan 16, 2012)

Ms. Jove said:


> *Spoiler*: _Spoiler: Gaang & Korra_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I like this. Wang Fire is the Batman of the Avatar world. While Sokka (Bruce) may have died, Someone Else (Dick) has taken up the beard (cowl). And the legend lives on!


----------



## Burke (Jan 16, 2012)

Ms. Jove said:


> OK, I want everyone to PM me their thoughts on spoiler tagging here.
> 
> 
> I, for one, abhor them and think that they preclude discussion. BUT, maybe if we specifically tag our spoilers, such as
> ...




*Spoiler*: _I agree with this._ 



I agree with this.


----------



## Jena (Jan 16, 2012)

Ms. Jove said:


> OK, I want everyone to PM me their thoughts on spoiler tagging here.
> 
> 
> I, for one, abhor them and think that they preclude discussion. BUT, maybe if we specifically tag our spoilers, such as
> ...




*Spoiler*: _I'm not going to PM you because I'm too lazy_ 




But, yes, I agree. Labeling the spoiler tags would be much appreciated.


----------



## Burke (Jan 16, 2012)

I just realized something horrible! Jove, the thread is nearing a close, what will we do??


----------



## KamiKazi (Jan 16, 2012)

I say no to spoilers, it drains my precious lurk time and makes things harder to follow. The Korra thread can use spoilery tags.


*Spoiler*: _Shitty Gif dump of the clips if anyone wants 'em_


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 16, 2012)

Here's something that's not a spoiler - Korra is female.
That's in response to someone who just figured it out yesterday with all the buzz about the clips going on.

Wow, you draw a girl a bit muscular and suddenly she's Caster Semenya 



Hey listen, If Korra had her hair that short and were much flatter in the chest area then I'd probably be confused also.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 16, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 




At first glance things are kind of funny in the sense that Aang seems better equip to deal with the problems Korra is facing, what with his peaceful nature, looking for non-violent methods of solving problems. Whilst you could argue that Korra's personality would have made things more straight forward with Ozai, if she was physically capable I don't think she would have a problem killing/crippling him.


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 16, 2012)

Gunners said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah,pretty much.

They'd have been perfect in eachother's place..

But still,it's going to be interesting to see how Korra's personality will develop so that she can deal with this situation.

Also,I want to see Mako and Bolin.


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 16, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> I just realized something horrible! Jove, the thread is nearing a close, what will we do??



Use the Korra thread?


----------



## Burke (Jan 16, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> Use the Korra thread?



           .


----------



## Koi (Jan 16, 2012)

You guys, I'd go gay for Korra in a god damned heartbeat but I would never be worthy of her HBICedness even giving me the time of day.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 16, 2012)

I usually hate spoilers, but this show is something I'm making an exception for. I watched all of those leaked clips, and it's getting me excited.

I already know I'm going to like Korra's personality, and it's good to know that at least one member of the Gaang is still alive.

As for the spoilers, I'd personally be for the notion of using tags in the Korra thread and not bothering with them her, but labeling them works too if everyone is for that.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 16, 2012)

Gunners said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So are you saying Aang's advice to Korra will be to "calm down" like Roku's was "be decisive" to him?


----------



## Ms. Jove (Jan 17, 2012)

You don't need to spoiler general stuff. Only info from the leaked videos.


As far as personalities... I doubt Korra would kill, either. She doesn't seem the type.


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 17, 2012)

Part of the reason Aang was reluctant to kill isn't just because he's a pacifist; its because he's a pacifist and he's technically *12.* Korra isn't much older than him and yeah, I don't know if she'd be in a hurry to kill Ozai either. The Avatars Aang asked for advice were all older, and at least two of them were speaking from experience and regret that they weren't more ruthless themselves, meaning that even they might not have killed him if they were truly in Aang's shoes and didn't have something like that hanging over them.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jan 17, 2012)

How old is Korra again 15, 16 or 17?

I do like Korra's more confident/confrontational attitude, probably because she has mastered 3 of 4 of the bending arts. Whereas Aang only started with one under his belt before the series started.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jan 17, 2012)

I'd love to see the spirit world make a play for the material world, because with "peace on earth" its kinda hard for me to see korra doing much besides explore the land and let us as fans see how it has changed (basically fanfic porn). On one hand the eventual removal of the Avatar system may be an over arching plotline.


----------



## Quaero (Jan 17, 2012)

The leaker announced he is going to release the first episode sometime this week. 

This being the internet, take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## stab-o-tron5000 (Jan 17, 2012)

Koi said:


> You guys, I'd go gay for Korra in a god damned heartbeat...



And I'd go straight for her in a... oh wait, I already am.  Sweet!

Now I just have this border between realities thing to deal with.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 17, 2012)

Goobikazi said:


> I say no to spoilers, it drains my precious lurk time and makes things harder to follow. The Korra thread can use spoilery tags.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Shitty Gif dump of the clips if anyone wants 'em_
> ...



Goobikazi, I do not believe that those images are "shitty" at all; I find them to be very awesome, so I thank you very much for posting them. 



Gunners said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Perhaps the writers did that deliberately, to create drama and tension within the story; the stories would not have been nearly as dramatic or compelling, at least to me, if the heroes were able to solve their problems too easily.


----------



## Burke (Jan 17, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> How old is Korra again 15, 16 or 17?
> 
> I do like Korra's more confident/confrontational attitude, probably because she has mastered 3 of 4 of the bending arts. Whereas Aang only started with one under his belt before the series started.



17 

practically an adult when it comes to animation.
When put into perspective, shikamaru murdered kin when he was 13


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 17, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> practically an adult when it comes to animation.



17 is too young for me, as I am now 24; I prefer that all members of a romantic relationship be within one, two, or three years of the others' ages.



St. Burke said:


> When put into perspective, shikamaru murdered kin when he was 13



Who did Shikamaru kill?  I cannot recall that early into the _Naruto_ storyline.


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 17, 2012)

I assume they are talking about either Tayuya or Hidan, though he didn't actually kill either of them (though not for lack for trying).


----------



## Burke (Jan 17, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> I assume they are talking about either Tayuya or Hidan, though he didn't actually kill either of them (though not for lack for trying).



Kin... the sound ninja from the chunin exams. Shika killed her in the prelims. Mind you, gai stopped gaara from killing lee and the jounins stopped neji from seriously injuring hinata. Yet shika killed Kin with no intervention .


----------



## Time Expired (Jan 17, 2012)

oh Sokka...


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 17, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Kin... the sound ninja from the chunin exams. Shika killed her in the prelims. Mind you, gai stopped gaara from killing lee and the jounins stopped neji from seriously injuring hinata. Yet shika killed Kin with no intervention .



No he didn't; he just knocked her out. She shows up later (or her corpse does)- Orochimaru used her as a human sacrifice to ressurect one of the Hokages. And he could hardly do that if she was already dead, not to mention it would take away from the reveal that Oro is so callous as to murder his own minions. Nobody died in the prelims.


----------



## MunchKing (Jan 18, 2012)

Koi said:


> You guys, I'd go gay for Korra in a god damned heartbeat but I would never be worthy of her HBICedness even giving me the time of day.



She is quite the stunner.  Anyone wondering if she's going to develop an in-universe fan following?

You know, like Aang and the inhabitants of Kyoshi?


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 18, 2012)

Quaero said:


> *The leaker announced he is going to release the first episode sometime this week. *
> This being the internet, take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 18, 2012)

Everyone at Viacom is in position.


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 18, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> Everyone at Viacom is in position.



To..give gentle hugs and pats on the back?


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 18, 2012)

Umm...Interesting.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFG-9_Y9zII&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


Also, more leaked footage recorded off a TV monitor possibly from a later episode!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZO81GEE9eA[/YOUTUBE]

Insane.


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 18, 2012)

Thats an anime. Someone just put the _Avatar_ theme over it.


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 18, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> Umm...Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a badly filmed clip of Canaan,not Avatar:Legend of Korra..


----------



## Pseudo (Jan 18, 2012)

I just resisted the urge to click on the spoiler vid, and I feel proud of my of myself.


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 18, 2012)

ThePseudo said:


> I just resisted the urge to click on the spoiler vid, and I feel proud of my of myself.



It's not a spoiler; its fake.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 18, 2012)

With a series as popular as this one, fake spoilers are practically inevitable; I can still recall a fake _Bleach_ spoiler in which Aizen acts very out-of-character and shouts "This is Heuco Mundo!" before kicking Kenpachi into a _Caja Negacion,_ similar to the one in which Grimmjow trapped Ulquiorra. It was hilarious.


----------



## MunchKing (Jan 18, 2012)

Fake spoiler is fake. I don't recognize the anime though. EDIT : Ciupy says its Canaan.
Why do we have to wait so long? 


*Spoiler*: _Korra in those recently leaked vids_ 



The way she threw the firebender through that window. 

That girl kicks ass. 





DemonDragonJ said:


> With a series as popular as this one, fake spoilers are practically inevitable; I can still recall a fake _Bleach_ spoiler in which Aizen acts very out-of-character and shouts "This is Heuco Mundo!" before kicking Kenpachi into a _Caja Negacion,_ similar to the one in which Grimmjow trapped Ulquiorra. It was hilarious.



:rofl

How does anyone think that is legit?


----------



## Mider T (Jan 18, 2012)

Let's do the leak right this time, nothing should ever be purged from the internet once put up.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 19, 2012)

I've been wanting to link to that video for awhile now.
Seemed like the perfect time to do it.

Also Munchking, a little bit of that clip with Korra throwing the firebender through the window was in the trailer. It's not much of a spoiler. People thought it was Mako since he was wearing a red scarf. Seems like it's just an indicator of heritage as someone mentioned earlier.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jan 19, 2012)

Ciupy said:


> That's a badly filmed clip of Canaan,not Avatar:Legend of Korra..



They were flying in like a black hawk helicopter...


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't believe anything that is supposedly leaked spoilers. 

*Okay, sometimes I do. *


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 19, 2012)

On the subject of _The Promise,_ if Zuko does find Ursa, I still would very much like to see a twist where Ursa is revealed to not be as kind and loving as Zuko believes her to be, similar to how, in _Code Geass,_
*Spoiler*: __ 



Lelouch learned, after searching extensively for the truth behind his mother's death, he learned that she had actually faked her death and was working with his father to convince him to take over the world.


I know that such a plot twist is not likely, given the nature of this series, but I personally would find it to be brilliant if Ursa was actually working with Ozai to groom Zuko into a conqueror, following the legacy of his ancestors before him. Would anyone else here like to see such a twist?



MunchKing said:


> How does anyone think that is legit?



Some people are easily fooled, while others are not, but still enjoy reading fake spoilers because of how hilariously obvious their falsehood is. For example, before this week's chapter of _Naruto_ was released, a fake spoiler surfaced, in which the imposter Madara claimed that Itachi and Sasuke had another, even younger sibling, who was kept hidden from everyone in the village, to be raised in secret. Such a spoiler was obviously false, and it was that blatant falsehood that gave it great comedic value.


----------



## Darth (Jan 19, 2012)

Alright people. Fess up. Leaked spoilers, new chapters of the Promise, anything new or recent or what have you. PM it to me when possible and reputation shall be yours.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 19, 2012)

Darth said:


> Alright people. Fess up. Leaked spoilers, new chapters of the Promise, anything new or recent or what have you. PM it to me when possible and reputation shall be yours.



I don't think anyone is willing to do that with what's been happening recently.


----------



## Darth (Jan 19, 2012)

This is a relatively privatized forum. Nobody really digs through obscure threads with hundreds of pages to find a few people sharing leaks. And I also highly doubt that people are going to report each other over trivial things with virtually no reward.

A little more trust in the community is merited Terra Branford.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 19, 2012)

If the FBI is looking into sites, people would be wise to cease such activity, at least for a while. I'm not worried about people here turning each other in. lol


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 19, 2012)

I agree with Terra; one can never be too cautious when there is the risk of being imprisoned or fined thousands of dollars.


----------



## Shade (Jan 20, 2012)

Something makes me think they're more likely to hit the pimping threads and virtually the rest of the forums before they'd make it here. 

All the new leaks are in the last few pages, Darth.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 20, 2012)

Its not about seeing this thread in particularly, its about the IPs they would connect sharing illegally distributed content such as comics, video leaks and movies.

Anyways, any news on Korra besides those leaked trailer pieces?

(That reminds me. Someone on this forum has an amazing Korra gif set.  I want one like that, and it makes me feel sad because it will be forever until I get to see the show.  )


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Jan 20, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I know that such a plot twist is not likely, given the nature of this series, but I personally would find it to be brilliant if Ursa was actually working with Ozai to groom Zuko into a conqueror, following the legacy of his ancestors before him. Would anyone else here like to see such a twist?



Not me, personally. The writers gave Zuko a pretty tough time throughout the majority of the series, and that'd just be piling on the shit and throwing another curveball for the sake of it. Zuko deserves his redemption.


----------



## Burke (Jan 20, 2012)

He deserves his mommy back. I mean, the promise did a 1 year time skip already and still no Ursa.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 20, 2012)

Not seeing Zuko reuniting with Ursa is the one really big complaint I had about how the show ended. I know we could use our imagination, but I really wanted to see that moment in the show.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 20, 2012)

@DemonDragonJ:

Hmm, no, I don't think I would like such a twist. It seems like a pretty decent twist for another character, but after watching the show, I couldn't see Ursa doing that despite my current opinion of her treatment to her children.


----------



## Wan (Jan 20, 2012)

Yo, here's a little something I put together, thought you guys might get a chuckle out of it:


----------



## Burke (Jan 20, 2012)

Oman said:


> Yo, here's a little something I put together, thought you guys might get a chuckle out of it:


----------



## SuXrys (Jan 20, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> Not seeing Zuko reuniting with Ursa is the one really big complaint I had about how the show ended. I know we could use our imagination, but I really wanted to see that moment in the show.



^ That.

Do you have any idea how irritated I became when I realized that I would probably never found out what happened to her? Let me tell you; it still bugs me and it was months ago!


----------



## Burke (Jan 20, 2012)

Imagine 3 and a half years


----------



## SuXrys (Jan 20, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Imagine 3 and a half years



No... that is to scary to think about ;__;


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 21, 2012)

In Brightest Day! said:


> Not me, personally. The writers gave Zuko a pretty tough time throughout the majority of the series, and that'd just be piling on the shit and throwing another curveball for the sake of it. Zuko deserves his redemption.



Yes, I can understand that idea, but, in _Code Geass,_ Lelouch had already been through a rather significant amount of his own suffering by the time that head learned the truth about his mother's assassination, including
*Spoiler*: __ 



the deaths of Euphemia, his own sister, and Shirley, his best friend


, and that did not stop him from suffering even further. I am not saying that what happened in _Code Geass_ should happen in _Avatar,_ but I am saying that great suffering in the past is no guarantee of reduction of future suffering for a character.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 21, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> Not seeing Zuko reuniting with Ursa is the one really big complaint I had about how the show ended. I know we could use our imagination, but I really wanted to see that moment in the show.



Definitely a complaint from me. I thought it would at least be visited in the comics, but I have a feeling it won't be.


----------



## Raiden (Jan 21, 2012)

Agreeing wholeheartedly with Narcissus. I couldn't even imagine anything though.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 21, 2012)

I myself believe that the third season of the series certainly could have had a story arc involving Zuko attempting to locate Ursa; the writers could simply have removed some episodes, such as the one where Aang attends the Fire Nation school, or where the heroes recuse the village near the factory. I am not saying that I disliked those episodes, as they did contribute to the story and the world, but Zuko's search for his mother is obviously more important than such minor stories.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 21, 2012)

I never really cared much about the Zuko's mother subplot but if there were any episode that needed to be dropped it was the Painted Lady and the Southern Raiders. Terrible terrible episodes, two of the many reasons I consider Katara to be one of the worst people in western fiction.


----------



## Burke (Jan 21, 2012)

Oi, the only thing youre aloud to hate about avatar is the pairings


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 21, 2012)

I'll hate on Katara all I like, thank you very much. 

But I do hate pairings. Except for SokkAang


----------



## Mider T (Jan 21, 2012)

How was the Southern Raiders terrible?


----------



## Wan (Jan 21, 2012)

Onomatopoeia said:


> I never really cared much about the Zuko's mother subplot but if there were any episode that needed to be dropped it was the Painted Lady and the Southern Raiders. Terrible terrible episodes, two of the many reasons I consider Katara to be one of the worst people in western fiction.



The Painted Lady wasn't so good; Southern Raiders certainly has a controversial subject matter.  Every (good) character should have flaws. (although The Painted Lady probably wasn't supposed to portray a "flaw").  The thing is, the same determined impulse that drove her in those episodes is what saved Team Avatar in the desert, had her confront Master Pakku, and friggin _cracked Aang out of the iceberg_.  That's a good record in my book.

Anyways, Bella Swan is far, far worse than Katara.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 21, 2012)

I'll give you that Painted Lady was average at best but Southern Raiders was in no way terrible. Dang, if western animation could give us episodes with that quality then we'd doing pretty fine for ourselves. I'll take the worst Avatar has to offer over an above average Generator Rex episode.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 21, 2012)

Mider T said:


> How was the Southern Raiders terrible?



For starters, her use of Bloodbending, previously touted as the most terribibble ting evar! goes totally unaccounted for, her proclamation that Sokka doesn't love their mother as much as she did because he's not willing to go on a suicide mission to track down the guy after fifteen years when they've got more important things to focus on. Like the impending end of the world.



Oman said:


> The Painted Lady wasn't so good; Southern Raiders certainly has a controversial subject matter.  Every (good) character should have flaws. (although The Painted Lady probably wasn't supposed to portray a "flaw").  The thing is, the same determined impulse that drove her in those episodes is what saved Team Avatar in the desert, had her confront Master Pakku, and friggin _cracked Aang out of the iceberg_.  That's a good record in my book.



Good characters should have flaws, and just as importantly, those flaws should be recognized. No attempt is made to portray Katara as wrong at any point. The best they can manage is a generic "revenge is teh bad" The More You Know kinda BS.

As far as Pakku goes, while I can't say I don't agree with Katara on some level, the way she approached the subject was a problem. If you want someone to teach you, the way to do that is not to attack them and insult their culture. Especially not when you're basically an uninvited guest.



> Anyways, Bella Swan is far, far worse than Katara.



A worse character or a worse person?


----------



## Koi (Jan 21, 2012)

^Both.



I read somewhere that we're getting the rest of Zuko and Ozai's conversation about Ursa in Volume 2.  I can't remember where, though, but here's to hoping.


----------



## Burke (Jan 21, 2012)

Looks like we're getting down to the wire here.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 21, 2012)

Onomatopoeia said:


> I never really cared much about the Zuko's mother subplot but if there were any episode that needed to be dropped it was the Painted Lady and the Southern Raiders. Terrible terrible episodes, two of the many reasons I consider Katara to be one of the worst people in western fiction.



I enjoyed both of those episodes, as they provided excellent character development for Katara, and while I also found Katara to be very annoying at times, I do not believe that she is the "worst character in western fiction," not by a great measure. I am far too tired at this moment to post some examples of characters whom I consider to be worse than Katara, but I shall do so soon.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 21, 2012)

I didn't say character. I said person. Well, I actually said people, but same thing.

Not that she isn't a terrible character, but I do view her as an incredibly terrible person.

One can be a terrible character without being a terrible person. Aang for instance.

Either way, I'm not really interested in an argument. The last time I had this discussion my opponent accused me of thinking Rosa Parks should have gone to the back of the bus.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Jan 22, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> I'll give you that Painted Lady was average at best but Southern Raiders was in no way terrible. Dang, if western animation could give us episodes with that quality then we'd doing pretty fine for ourselves. I'll take the worst Avatar has to offer over an above average Generator Rex episode.



Have you ever watched _Gargoyles_ or _Reboot?_ Those series are both over a decade old, but they each had many episodes of the same, or even greater (in my mind) quality as _The Southern Raiders._


----------



## Wan (Jan 22, 2012)

Onomatopoeia said:


> For starters, her use of Bloodbending, previously touted as the most terribibble ting evar! goes totally unaccounted for, her proclamation that Sokka doesn't love their mother as much as she did because he's not willing to go on a suicide mission to track down the guy after fifteen years when they've got more important things to focus on. Like the impending end of the world.



I think Katara using bloodbending was a great way of depicting how distraught the issue of her mother has made her, even making her put aside her own morals.  Even better was the look in her eyes when she realized it was the wrong person.  Classic example of "show, don't tell" done right.



> Good characters should have flaws, and just as importantly, those flaws should be recognized. No attempt is made to portray Katara as wrong at any point. The best they can manage is a generic "revenge is teh bad" The More You Know kinda BS.



That is part of what makes The Painted Lady lackluster, but not the Southern Raiders.  Aang makes a very clear assertion that Katara seeking revenge is wrong, and even if you think that is cliche in itself, it's still an attempt to portray Katara as wrong.  More than that, though, Katara doesn't firmly claim that what she is doing is right anyways; rather, the episode is about Katara trying to figure out what she should to do.

And if you're talking about worst _person_ in western fiction, come on.  If you're trying to objectively evaluate her actions, plenty of villains and murderers are far worse than Katara.  If the way she makes her decisions and acts about it simply annoy you, then that's disliking her as a character.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 22, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Have you ever watched _Gargoyles_ or _Reboot?_ Those series are both over a decade old, but they each had many episodes of the same, or even greater (in my mind) quality as _The Southern Raiders._



Seen all of Gargoyles, and am pissed that there were never more comics (fuck you, Disney! ).

Can readily state that any single episode of Gargoyles is better than Southern Raiders and Painted Lady put together. 

Never seen Reboot, except for like one episode ten years ago and I don't remember a thing about it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 22, 2012)

(I watched Gargoyles as well. )

I actually thought the Southern Raiders was pretty good, not my favorite or best in the series, but definitely good.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 22, 2012)

To each his own, I suppose.


----------



## Jena (Jan 22, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Have you ever watched _Gargoyles_ or _Reboot?_ Those series are both over a decade old, but they each had many episodes of the same, or even greater (in my mind) quality as _The Southern Raiders._



Jumping in randomly to say that _Gargoyles_ was awesome.


----------



## Superstarseven (Jan 22, 2012)

Yeah it's a good episode. Certainly nothing is ever going to convince _me_ otherwise.
That's fine though, to each their own. 
As many animated series as I have watched over the past 25 years, I don't think I've ever hated a character so much that it pulls me away from a show. I may have found some less interesting than others but that's as far as it's ever gone.
I could go on about how there aren't or haven't been many shows like Avatar but then Ben Grimm will come into the thread and list off 25 obscure cartoons that no one has thought of in 15 years. Of course _Beast Wars_ will top the list.

It's a damn shame Sym-bionic Titan was cancelled so soon. It showed a lot of promise.


----------



## Waking Dreamer (Jan 22, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Have you ever watched _Gargoyles_ or _Reboot?_ Those series are both over a decade old, but they each had many episodes of the same, or even greater (in my mind) quality as _The Southern Raiders._



Reboot was EPIC! 

_"Warning! Incoming Game."_

When Enzo gets blinded in the Mortal Kombat-esque game and is facing certain defeat against the User...you see him, AndrAIa and Frisket reluctantly change their icons to game sprite mode, you know the story is just going to get another step darker/tragic..


----------



## Ciupy (Jan 22, 2012)

Among the list of incredibly good western animation shows that got canned I'd list Samurai Jack and of course my favourite,"The Pirates of Dark Water"!


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_5F1zYQF5M&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


Such an incredible series..shame they canceled it..


----------



## Glued (Jan 22, 2012)

Superstarseven said:


> Yeah it's a good episode. Certainly nothing is ever going to convince _me_ otherwise.
> That's fine though, to each their own.
> As many animated series as I have watched over the past 25 years, I don't think I've ever hated a character so much that it pulls me away from a show. I may have found some less interesting than others but that's as far as it's ever gone.
> I could go on about how there aren't or haven't been many shows like Avatar but then *Ben Grimm will come into the thread and list off 25 obscure cartoons that no one has thought of in 15 years. Of course Beast Wars will top the list.*
> ...



Nah, I've told people already what I like and what I don't like.


What really gets my goat about current western animation, is that you can't find any good shows on basic like Fox or CW22.


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## Superstarseven (Jan 22, 2012)

Truly a shame that my kids will miss out on Saturday morning and weekday afternoon cartoons blocks. 
I lament more the loss of Saturday morning cartoons. What a great 40 year ritual gone  to make way for weekend editions of weekday morning programs, edutainment shows and paid programming.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 22, 2012)

Yes, Southern Raiders > Painted Lady. Both had flaws, but Southern Raiders had some fantastic animation and technique, even if the pacing was maybe a bit overthought.

Painted Lady was the zenith of Katara putting her own altruistic obsessions above the safety of the group. Looking back, it wasn't even _that_ bad of an episode; I mean, I remember when it originally aired I was appalled, but removed from the tension of the classic weekly cycle it's fine. 

The frustration remains, though.




Superstarseven said:


> It's a damn shame Sym-bionic Titan was cancelled so soon. It showed a lot of promise.


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## Burke (Jan 22, 2012)

Jove, people are starting to think youre a woman


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## Jena (Jan 22, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> Jove, people are starting to think youre a woman



Ms. Jove is all man.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jan 22, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that was also one of my favorite scenes in the series, as well, although for me, the most dramatic and emotional part was not Enzo's defeat, but the events that occurred after it: Dot screaming "NOOOO!" and Megabyte laughing evily.



I know what you mean. Its been years (perhaps a decade or even more) since Ive actually seen a full Reboot episode, but when you hear the term, "User wins" in this clip:

[YOUTUBE]fk33kSiMye8[/YOUTUBE]

I still get shivers down my spine. Followed by the silence of the other characters and then Dot's reaction...you're feeling exactly what theyre feeling...


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## Superstarseven (Jan 22, 2012)

Like most Americans my age who watched cartoons, I watched the first season of Reboot when it aired on ABC and never bothered to follow up when the remaining seasons aired on Cartoon Network.


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## Burke (Jan 22, 2012)

Thread ending, the Tazmo bot is upon us.


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## Stunna (Jan 22, 2012)

Let him come.


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## Quaero (Jan 22, 2012)

Why terminate threads over 500 pages anyway?


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## Noah (Jan 22, 2012)

But! We have nowhere else to gooooo


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## Onomatopoeia (Jan 22, 2012)

Can we not make a new thread?


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## Burke (Jan 22, 2012)

(Of course we can, we're just a dramatic bunch)


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 22, 2012)

Quaero said:


> Why terminate threads over 500 pages anyway?



My guess is that they take too long for the server to load, or occupy too much disk space on the server, or something similar.

I am rather displeased that this thread shall soon be closed, as I have more posts in this thread than I do in any other thread in which I have posted, and I have not yet reclaimed my position in fourth place in terms of post count, and I am still slightly less than sixty posts behind ReikaiDemon, who has not posted in this thread in quite some time.


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## Jeroen (Jan 22, 2012)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Can we not make a new thread?



Tazmo bot automatically creates a new thread... >.>


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## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 22, 2012)

Yes, it's a server issue for threads with 10,000+ posts.
Either the bot will make the new thread or we'll be shunted to the Korra thread.





DemonDragonJ said:


> if he is male, why does he have a feminine title in his username?


Inside joke is inside.


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## Glued (Jan 22, 2012)

I only hope that Korra doesn't end up being like Beast Machines or Conan and the Young Warriors or Spider-man Unlimited.

Sequals sometimes have a habit of disgracing the originals.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 22, 2012)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> Yes, it's a server issue for threads with 10,000+ posts.



In that case, I shall need to work diligently to increase my post count again; it took my a very long time to reach the over six hundred posts that I currently have in this thread.



Dragonus Nesha said:


> Either the bot will make the new thread or we'll be shunted to the Korra thread.Inside joke is inside.



Yes, I understand.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 22, 2012)

What happens to this thread then? Does it get completely deleted, or just archived? Had some good posts in it, from what I recall and some good gifs/pictures.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 22, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> I only hope that Korra doesn't end up being like Beast Machines or Conan and the Young Warriors or Spider-man Unlimited.
> 
> Sequals sometimes have a habit of disgracing the originals.



In that case, we shall need to hope that _Avatar: the Legend of Korra_ is as good as was _Avatar: the Last Airbender,_ that the story writers can keep the story as interesting and riveting as they did for the first series, keeping the story similar, yet different at the same time.


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## Ms. Jove (Jan 22, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> What happens to this thread then? Does it get completely deleted, or just archived? Had some good posts in it, from what I recall and some good gifs/pictures.



It falls, but is linked to in the OP of the next thread. I screencap all the pages, anyway... though I haven't in months.


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## Burke (Jan 22, 2012)

Thats really selfless of you jove pek


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## Terra Branford (Jan 22, 2012)

I hope that with such a long wait, it means the show has some really nice animation and great story. I won't hope much for the acting so I won't be disappointed in case its bad. 



Ms. Jove said:


> It falls, but is linked to in the OP of the next thread. I screencap all the pages, anyway... though I haven't in months.



You screencap all the pages? :amazed If it is linked to in the next thread, does that mean we could revisit it?


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## Soledad Eterna (Jan 22, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> I only hope that Korra doesn't end up being like Beast Machines or Conan and the Young Warriors or Spider-man Unlimited.
> 
> Sequals sometimes have a habit of disgracing the originals.



Beast Machines deserves more credit than it gets. The animation is good, and taking away the environmentalist moral, it has it's good action scenes and characters.
As for Legend of Korra, I just hope that the final villain is good. While I liked Ozai, at first, he wasn't that fleshed out and I hate coward villains and fights where the hero has the upper hand the majority of the time.


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## Wan (Jan 23, 2012)

I just want to say, it's been an honor, Hotmen. Flameo.


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## Waveblade (Jan 23, 2012)

Can we call the next thread Avatar: Legend of Korra?


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