# Dark Sakura (FSN) vs Kakine Teitoku (ToAru)



## Kazu (Aug 29, 2013)

You guys know how this song and dance goes. 
Scenario 1: Speed Equal
Scenario 2: No restrictions
CIS off in both scenarios

20 meters.

No Saber or Berserker Alter in either scenario


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## JoJo (Aug 29, 2013)

Is Dark Sakura from filler or something?


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## Kazu (Aug 29, 2013)

Whoops. Probably should have put that in the thread title
FSN dark sakura.


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## P-X 12 (Aug 29, 2013)

JoJo said:


> Is Dark Sakura from filler or something?



.....I think he's talking about Dark Sakura from FSN.


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## JoJo (Aug 29, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> Whoops. Probably should have put that in the thread title
> FSN dark sakura.



You probably should have.


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## willyvereb (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, Sakura in that form probably has reactions on par with Kakine.
She was fairly confident she could take on Rider, so at least Sakura has the reaction time close to Servants'.
She can also summon an army of Shadows with each possessing power on par with Noble Phantasms. (Thus scalable to city level+ firepower each, even if otherwise weak in durability)
Sakura also has soul-fucking BFR, shadow teleportation and her touch can reduce any matter to magical energy

So in terms of abilities she isn't bad at all.
Even without relying on Saber Alter. 
(Dark Berserker is kinda useless, Dark Caster on the other hand...)

The only issue is with Sakura's competence as a fighter. Aside from the basics Zouken never allowed her to learn magic, instead preferring torturous "training" to let her body instinctively know the Matou arts.
Sakura also lacks combat experience altogether.
The combination of these make Sakura fairly unimaginative and cowardly in a fight. She generally only uses brute force to overcome the opponent.
Which worked in the verse because Dark Sakura was just so much above everyone else.
Until Rin got the Zelretch Sword to nearly even the scales.
We know how it went after that.


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## TehChron (Aug 29, 2013)

Actually, this is a pretty interesting matchup. At least to imagine.

Kakine Teitoku certainly has reactions to keep up with Sakura, given those mental calculation speed calcs. Kakine has worlds of combat experience on Sakura, in addition to being significantly more imaginative in using his powers.

Then there's the fact that, at present, Kakine simply doesn't have any vital body parts or core, Sakura would have to wipe out Kakine in his entirety in order to net a win in this scenario.

But those shadows presumably have city-wide DC, so there is that 

On the other hand, how easy is it for Sakura to lose her shit? I can see Kakine preying on tells to generate clones to drive her nuts. Although that'd likely require prep. Well, with prep Kakine would take this rather handily regardless, so meh.

Really the only problem Kakine has in this is that we don't have an upper limit on the DC Dark Matter is capable of. Not to mention we can't really assign a definite value for the durability of Dark Matter since it's never really been broken in the series. All Accelerators done is hijack the vectors and turn the stuff on Kakine himself. And trying to use the upper limits of Accels energy manipulation to determine the durability of Dark Matter seems a bit...iffy to me. Since its not like the dark matter absorbed the energy being controlled by Accelerator in that regard, so it wouldnt really be a measure of durability, would it?


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## RedSurvivor (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, we know the beetle's cannons can't harm eachother, and the cannons are supposedly equal to a tank cannon. That could just be because both the "shells" and the beetles are made from dark matter though. Plus that level of durability doesn't really help here.

Edit: Wait, doesn't Sakura have some manner of soulfuck? Or is that against Servant's only?


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## TehChron (Aug 29, 2013)

Soulfuck only applies if she catches them.

Which she is never doing, considering the nature of Kakine Teitoku's body. 

Also, the best you can get from "deflecting a tank cannon" is that they're maybe building level in durability as a low end? The point is that its unquantifiable.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

Actually, The Beetles attacks are Tank shells, so their attacks are around building, in durability they are said to be able to tank a shot from a Battleship and keep going. Whatever that puts their durability at.

I can find the passage if anyone wants.


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## Kazu (Aug 29, 2013)

TehChron said:


> On the other hand, how easy is it for Sakura to lose her shit



It seems like it would be very easy, but the person that did make her lose her shit (Rin) was, well her sister. And you know the story behind that. 



Xamgun D. Auchhior said:


> Actually, The Beetles attacks are Tank shells, so their attacks are around building, in durability they are said to be able to tank a shot from a Battleship and keep going. Whatever that puts their durability at.
> 
> I can find the passage if anyone wants.



It'd be easy to find the yield, it just depends on what is kind of tank shell we're talking about.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

Unforunately...it's never described as a specific type of shell, the Beetle shoots it, and Accel is shown as thinking that it was a tank shell till he turns around and sees the beetle iirc.


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## Sygurgh (Aug 29, 2013)

Unlike against Shirou or Sakura, Sakura doesn't have a reason to confront Kakine. She can hide while the shadows attack independently. It's not something that requires competence.


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## Kazu (Aug 29, 2013)

Xamgun D. Auchhior said:


> Unforunately...it's never described as a specific type of shell, the Beetle shoots it, and Accel is shown as thinking that it was a tank shell till he turns around and sees the beetle iirc.



Well, going through random shells, it can vary from 30 kg of tnt to 10 tons of tnt.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> Unlike against Shirou or Sakura, Sakura doesn't have a reason to confront Kakine. She can hide while the shadows attack independently. It's not something that requires competence.





Kazuakisama said:


> Well, going through random shells, it can vary from 30 kg of tnt to 10 tons of tnt.


What's the usual action in a situation like this?
Perhaps posting the passage would help, since iirc it did cause some general destruction.


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, Kakine/Beetle 05 does have a sort of limit on his Dark Matter generation before potentially having his powers hijacked by a different personality. But this doesn't really apply as a valid weakness in an OBD match so..

Seems like this is basically a battle of attrition. Since I can't really see either side easily putting the other down due to their respective powersets.


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## Kazu (Aug 29, 2013)

Xamgun D. Auchhior said:


> What's the usual action in a situation like this?
> Perhaps posting the passage would help, since iirc it did cause some general destruction.



Posting the passage may help. So yeah, please do.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> Posting the passage may help. So yeah, please do.


So no actual DC, I remembered it wrong, but heres the passage with Accel  equating the shell to a tanks

*Spoiler*: __ 






> With the sound of a great blast, Fr?ulein Kreutune?s upper body was bent to the side in an L-shape.
> With her waist at the center, Fr?ulein Kreutune?s body was bent forcefully to the right. Since her lower body still stood straight up from the ground as before, it was a truly strange sight.
> Several events had gone by in quick succession.
> It felt like time had stopped.
> ...






Here's one with a character saying a Bazooka won't do shit to a Beetle.

*Spoiler*: __ 





> ?Even if we do catch up to them, what then? The pursuers will not be far behind. They have at least the firepower of a tank and they have a vector control technique to delicately manipulate shockwaves. Plus, they can regenerate given enough time even if split in two. ?This is no enemy to stand up to with something like a bazooka,? said Yoshikawa.
> ?There?s still something we can do.? Hamazura crouched down and used a small rock he found to scrape a simple schematic diagram on the sidewalk. ?We can?t destroy these beetles. In fact, they will regenerate even if we do. But what if we just obstruct them? For example, if we stab them with a bunch of thick hooked stakes like the harpoons used to kill sharks, they wouldn?t be able to pull them out.?
> ?Hamazura, do you know how tough their armor is?? asked Takitsubo.
> ?We saw a bunch of them fighting, remember? Maybe it?s because they?re made to regenerate, but they definitely didn?t look like their armor is so ridiculously strong that not even a nuke could destroy them. If we use something like what anti-terror teams use to break down doors, we should be able to break through their armor.?
> ...






Heres one with the beetles OG durability, although for narrative purposes this particular beetle has weakened considerably.

*Spoiler*: __ 





> Rhinoceros Beetle 05 thought while an odd cracking noise could be heard from within its body.
> (I wish I could deal with it in the same way?)
> It was made from Academy City?s #2 Level 5 power of Dark Matter.
> Originally, Rhinoceros Beetle 05 could have easily taken a blast from a tank and could have regenerated almost instantly from a blast from a battleship.
> ...


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## Nep Heart (Aug 29, 2013)

High-explosive rockets from portable launchers are usually around wall level+ to small building level, so those are not too helpful. I'd stick to the low-end, or at least average of a tank shell since those have higher yields than portable rockets. This also gives me the excuse to post this at least. 

 Not that it matters much since Dark Sakura's raw power is hilariously above the comparably shitty power and durability of pretty much any conventional weapon, let alone a tank.


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## ~Greed~ (Aug 29, 2013)

Kakine's attack power is shit. Probably building level. On the other hand, his regen is insane. He's hard to kill since he can transfer to any body of dark matter he creates. The guy has regenerated from a keychain sized object before, and was stated to be able to regenerate as long as his dark matter exists, and dark matter goes down to the size of individual particles.


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

Could probably powerscale Kakine to weaker espers like Kongou or something.

If the statement about launching radio towers into the stratosphere is legit, PE is something like a few tons. This is mostly only relevant in terms of DC though, as I don't think anyone here expects Kakine's durability to make a difference here, especially when its his regeneration that makes him difficult to kill instead.


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## TehChron (Aug 29, 2013)

Keeps him being one-shotted


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

Fortunately for him, his opponent just happens to be a glass cannon. But one which, similarly, has access to regen. 

So once again, the problem for both sides here isn't so much DC so much as actually putting the other one down permanently.


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## Qinglong (Aug 29, 2013)

So she has to consume him to win?


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## Sygurgh (Aug 29, 2013)

She can always eat him.


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## ~Greed~ (Aug 29, 2013)

Kind of hard to do when the guy can create hundreds of bodies with a snap of his fingers. Or detach a part of himself before he is completely eaten, and regen from that detached piece.


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## willyvereb (Aug 29, 2013)

Regicide said:


> Could probably powerscale Kakine to weaker espers like Kongou or something.
> 
> If the statement about launching radio towers into the stratosphere is legit, PE is something like a few tons. This is mostly only relevant in terms of DC though, as I don't think anyone here expects Kakine's durability to make a difference here, especially when its his regeneration that makes him difficult to kill instead.


That'd only equal a few to a dozen tons of TNT.
Kakine has a far better feat.
He did redirect Mugino's meltdowner beams with his Dark Matter, giving him both DC and durabilit feat in at least the multi city block range.
Potentially much higher.

Still, if the Shadow Giants have attacks with concentrated power of a citybuster, I don't think Kakine's regen would do anything to stop it.
Remember, his ability creates dark *matter*. An imaginary substance that otherwise doesn't exist.
Still, it doesn't mean he has control down to the particles or he can regenerate from it.
So vaporization would be more than sufficient here.
Same if he's being caught by Sakura's touch or her void blasts.
Both are capable of immediatel? reducing the target to pure magic energy for Sakura to use.


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## Sygurgh (Aug 29, 2013)

Does Kakine have any mean to locate his opponent? Would he be able to locate her if she decides to turtle up while flooding the terrain and spawning giants?

And does he replicate his soul when he replicates? Because that's what she would be eating.

Flight would be a must have as well.


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

The main issue with consuming Kakine is that he doesn't really have a real body, destroying the individual units constructed from Dark Matter won't actually affect him as long as his network as a whole remains intact.

Which becomes an issue in a scenario like this, where he can generate Dark Matter exponentially, and can easily play the ranged game if he wants to.

And yes, he can fly.


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## ~Greed~ (Aug 29, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> Does Kakine have any mean to locate his opponent? Would he be able to locate her if she decides to turtle up while flooding the terrain and spawning giants?



He has his spy dragonfly things, which are used for recon and finding things.




> And does he replicate his soul when he replicates? Because that's what she would be eating.



First of all, how does her soulfuck work?

Also, regicide gave a pretty good answer regarding that above.


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## willyvereb (Aug 29, 2013)

Ampchu said:


> High-explosive rockets from portable launchers are usually around wall level+ to small building level, so those are not too helpful. I'd stick to the low-end, or at least average of a tank shell since those have higher yields than portable rockets. This also gives me the excuse to post this at least.
> 
> Not that it matters much since Dark Sakura's raw power is hilariously above the comparably shitty power and durability of pretty much any conventional weapon, let alone a tank.


Did you copy-paste it from the (now-defunct) "new" OBD Wiki?

I remember making this profile there with the exact same text and wording.
Here:
this

You forgot to actually add the part about the durability.


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> And does he replicate his soul when he replicates? Because that's what she would be eating.


Possibly? 

Beetle 05, for example, is a separate entity despite being created from Dark Matter. Going by Alfar and magical life forms, this is probably sufficient for each body to have a "soul" of sorts.


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## Nep Heart (Aug 29, 2013)

willyvereb said:


> Did you copy-paste it from the (now-defunct) "new" OBD Wiki?



 Someone had to do it since you weren't doing anything in the Wikispace for a while at the time. 



> You forgot to actually add the part about the durability.



 Will do.


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## Kazu (Aug 29, 2013)

Questions

Say Sakura takes one of Kakine's clones. Can she make that clone into a sort of "Kakine alter"?

And it says in the wiki





> Each copy has the same abilties as the real Kakine, and can be taken over by the original Kakine if his main body is destroyed.


Wouldn't kakine be screwed if Sakura somehow gets her hands on the original?


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

In that point though, she'd have to find the original in the hundreds he can create.
Even then, he can easily switch from one to another, so finding the original isn't going to be a win.


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## Nep Heart (Aug 29, 2013)

Relevant post from me for this thread... couldn't Kakine's self replication have the effect of automatically replicating his soul as well?


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## Sygurgh (Aug 29, 2013)

Then grabbing any Kakine would result in a Kakine Alter.


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> Say Sakura takes one of Kakine's clones. Can she make that clone into a sort of "Kakine alter"?
> 
> And it says in the wiki
> Wouldn't kakine be screwed if Sakura somehow gets her hands on the original?


There is no actual original, so to speak. The body that appears to be Kakine is just the one he's controlling at the time.

Albeit if she happens to consume that one specifically, it would possibly kill him if he didn't switch over to another unit. Although I can't say that the possibility of another personality taking over the network wouldn't emerge, especially if the individual bodies do indeed have their own souls.

To answer your question on potential corrupted Dark Matter bodies, the connection to that one specifically would just be cut off from the network and would quickly be destroyed due to no longer possessing the ability to create its own Dark Matter.


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## RedSurvivor (Aug 29, 2013)

Ampchu said:


> Relevant post from me for this thread... couldn't Kakine's self replication have the effect of automatically replicating his soul as well?



Hm. Well according to Accelerator and Mugino all the Kakine clones were essentially different facets of his personality. So whether or not that makes them have different souls probably depends on a particular verse's rules.

Course, in SS2 Heaven Canceler states that the Misaka sisters are all different facets of one overreaching personality, but I don't think we'd state that they only have one soul. Situations aren't exactly alike though.


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

RedSurvivor said:


> Hm. Well according to Accelerator and Mugino all the Kakine clones were essentially different facets of his personality. So whether or not that makes them have different souls probably depends on a particular verse's rules.


Norse Mythology SS actually goes over the mass production of souls in Toaru through the creation of magical life forms, despite no one in the verse quite understanding what souls actually are.

So the possibility isn't outlandish, at least.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

So the battle is basically coming down to what?
If Sakura can kill all Kakines completely and if/or her Soulfuck might work?

The Soulfuck particularly seems to be territory in which the best we can do is conjecture. 
Especially considering Souls aren't expressly explained in Toaru.

The Misakas all have different souls or are implied to, but they are human clones, where as Kakines are all Dark Matter.


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## Kazu (Aug 29, 2013)

Well anyway, even if Sakura consumes one, even if it's the original, the clones won't suddenly disappear.


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## Nep Heart (Aug 29, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> Then grabbing any Kakine would result in a Kakine Alter.



 I'd like to see that for the lulz, although I'd pay for a Dark Matter Beetle Alter.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

Ampchu said:


> I'd like to see that for the lulz, although I'd pay for a *Dark Matter Beetle Alter. *


How much would you pay?


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

Xamgun D. Auchhior said:


> So the battle is basically coming down to what?
> If Sakura can kill all Kakines completely and if/or her Soulfuck might work?
> 
> The Soulfuck particularly seems to be territory in which the best we can do is conjecture.
> Especially considering Souls aren't expressly explained in Toaru.


It also comes down to whether or not Kakine can ultimately output DC which can overcome Sakura's regen.


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## RedSurvivor (Aug 29, 2013)

Ampchu said:


> I'd like to see that for the lulz, although I'd pay for a Dark Matter Beetle Alter.



...I want a Gunha Alter.

Dark Amazing Punch!


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## Sygurgh (Aug 29, 2013)

From what I understand, Kakine is seriously limited by his DC here. If Sakura covers herself in shadows there is nothing he can do to damage her while she can keep expending her territory forever if she has to. It's not even a matter of regeneration.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

Regicide said:


> It also comes down to whether or not Kakine can ultimately output DC which can overcome Sakura's regen.



Her regen is Mid right?
I honestly doubt Kakine can win this then.

His DC has been absolute shit so far, although if we go off of Meltdowner like Willy suggested he'd be MCB.





RedSurvivor said:


> ...I want a Gunha Alter.
> 
> Dark Amazing Punch!



Omniverse Level? 
Omniverse Level!


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> From what I understand, Kakine is seriously limited by his DC here. If Sakura covers herself in shadows there is nothing he can do to damage her while she can keep expending her territory forever if she has to. It's not even a matter of regeneration.


Don't the shadows have relatively shitty durability?

This also applies in reverse, by the way. Exponential creation of Dark Matter and shit.


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## Sygurgh (Aug 29, 2013)

They are strong enough to restrain Berserker and tear off his flesh. Same Berserker that tanked Caladbolg.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> They are strong enough to restrain Berserker and tear off his flesh.


What does restraining Beserker and tearing off his flesh have to do with their durability?


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## Sygurgh (Aug 29, 2013)

Xamgun D. Auchhior said:


> What does restraining Beserker and tearing off his flesh have to do with their durability?



It's not like the shadow used an attack. The shadow covered Berserker and he couldn't get out. It had to resist Berserker's strength.


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## Xam (Aug 29, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> It's not like the shadow used an attack. The shadow covered Berserker and he couldn't get out. It had to resist Berserker's strength.



Again, how does that apply?
If I'm restrained by ropes, neither my lifting or striking strength would be applicable to getting out.

Assuming of course he was immobilized, such as not being able to move limbs except to struggle, if he was punching the shadows or something, that;s another story.

Edit: It's time for me to leave, you guys keep doing your thing.


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## Sygurgh (Aug 29, 2013)

He broke Enkidu with his strength.


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## Nep Heart (Aug 29, 2013)

Eh, Kakine just has the regeneration hax going for him honestly... Dark Sakura has a lot more going for her, but not like their duel will not take extremely long to end. All Kakine can do is delay the inevitable if Dark Sakura doesn't wear down in due time.



Xamgun D. Auchhior said:


> Omniverse Level?
> Omniverse Level!



 The Amazing Punch Above All.


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## Regicide (Aug 29, 2013)

Bullshit, you can't corrupt GUTS.


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## JustThisOne (Aug 29, 2013)

Didn't Sakura regenerate from a Gate of Babylon spam? If that is the case then Kakine's DC is not putting down Sakura.


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## Qinglong (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes, she regenerated from a GoB from Gilgamesh not taking her seriously and underestimating her regen.


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## Xelloss (Aug 29, 2013)

Correct if gilgamesh wants and put the effort he is >> dark bitch


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 30, 2013)

Othinus said:


> First of all, how does her soulfuck work?



Corrosive evil at the touch. The kind of shit that can corrupt even powerful Servants if they get in contact.

The evil is spread in a mud like substance or otherwise through darkness IIRC.

Which well, Sakura can simply flood the floor. Hide elsewhere through the dimensions of darkness and let the Shadows do the work. She got the stamina.


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## Boomy (Aug 30, 2013)

Sakura rips Zouken out of her heart and throws him at Kakine and then proceeds to consume his clones or rape him with maggots.


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## ~Greed~ (Aug 30, 2013)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Corrosive evil at the touch. The kind of shit that can corrupt even powerful Servants if they get in contact.
> 
> The evil is spread in a mud like substance or otherwise through darkness IIRC.
> 
> Which well, Sakura can simply flood the floor. Hide elsewhere through the dimensions of darkness and let the Shadows do the work. She got the stamina.



In which case, how fast is she, and can her corruption power reach someone who is flying?


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

Fast enough that if they were to fight, Sakura would be considered a threat to Rider, who can fly a Mach 50+ Pegasus.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 30, 2013)

Mach 50 was a higher-end result


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

High-end or low-end? There was no way to include the depth when the text explicitly mentions Rider flying into the distance, and it was calculated as if she was simply moving from left to right.


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> Mach 50 was a higher-end result


What are you talking about?
That certain calc didn't have a high end or low end.
Just resulted in Mach 52.
Which happens to be fairly consistent with Rider's status as a fastest Servant on foot.
Even without that calc she'd be considered Mach 45 or above in terms of combat speed (not just reactions like most Servants).

On the other hand it isn't necessary to possess Mach 52 reactions to fight her.
Sakura could be a feasible threat against her even with reaction time half or even one-third of Rider's. Albeit her shadow attacks must be around that speed.
Not like it matters too much.
It only means she can keep up with Kakine.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 30, 2013)

I meant that at the least you can get a 2x lower result just by using a different picture to scale Pegasus' wingspan from


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2013)

That doesn't make much sense.
The size of Pegasus' wings are fairly consistent.
This is a Visual Novel. Not a hastily drawn manga panel.


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

He has a case though. I used the openings to make the calculation, not the image from the visual novel.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 30, 2013)

I don't remember where each pic was from actually, but I recall one of them showing a ~2x larger wingspan (compared to Rider) then the other


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

Never mind. I made a rough estimation of the new Rider calculation (without Pegasus) that I wanted to do and it gave me Mach 15. I won't even bother as we already have a Mach 15.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 30, 2013)

I also requested Endless Mike to do it


might be awhile before he gets to it though


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 30, 2013)

> I made a rough estimation of the new Rider calculation (without Pegasus) that I wanted to do and it gave me Mach 15. I won't even bother as we already have a Mach 15.


what do you mean ? you recalced the same flight scene from the Vita opening ? or another feat ? 

without Pegasus ?


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

Nah, a new calculation from the third opening of Fate Vita, when Rider fights Dark Saber in the cave. It won't give me more than Mach 15.

Well, I can always use this:


> Rider disappears.
> The black cavalryman dashes at the swordsman with light speed.


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2013)

And that's already the second claim for lightspeed Servants.
Certainly that's how the author intended it all along.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 30, 2013)

legit


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## ikoke (Aug 30, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> Rider disappears.
> The black cavalry*man* dashes at the swords*man* with light speed.



What!
10chars


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

"The black cavalrywoman dashes at the swordswoman with light womanspeed."


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## Xam (Aug 30, 2013)

Light speed servants? 
Legit beyond the concept of the Legit.


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## Kazu (Aug 30, 2013)

Conceptual legitness.


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## RedSurvivor (Aug 30, 2013)

Xamgun D. Auchhior said:


> Light speed servants?
> Legit beyond the concept of the Legit.



FTL Prana Burst


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## Xam (Aug 30, 2013)

RedSurvivor said:


> FTL Prana Burst


Legit beyond Legit.

6 times the speed of Light Prana Bursts.



Kazuakisama said:


> Conceptual legitness.


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

I'd like to hear your opinions.

Nobody with half a brain would say that Servants from the original game or Zero are faster than light, but why is it so hard to accept that it seems to be the case in CCC, even if it's retarded as hell.


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## Xam (Aug 30, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> I'd like to hear your opinions.
> 
> Nobody with half a brain would say that Servants from the original game or Zero are faster than light, but why is it so hard to accept that it seems to be the case in CCC, *even if it's retarded as hell.*


You say it's retarded as hell, then ask people to accept it? Seems...strange.

Of course my opinion is hardly a good one considering I've only done F/SN and F/Z and barely remember even those.


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## Kazu (Aug 30, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> I'd like to hear your opinions.
> 
> Nobody with half a brain would say that Servants from the original game or Zero are faster than light, but why is it so hard to accept that it seems to be the case in CCC, even if it's retarded as hell.



Gil and Caster are legit, though they use a way to circumvent the massive distance (ship and spacial manip). 

Archer and Saber are both PIS.


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

It's not a PIS when they both received a massive power-up minutes before the feat. I agree that it should never have happened, but it happened and we have a plausible explanation.


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2013)

Now it begs to question how Types and such compare to the "true" Heroic Spirits/Counter Guardians.
IIRC that was the explanation for Archer and Saber's feat.


Primate FTL Murder


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 30, 2013)

It's the Mythical Formal Wear, while she was flying Saber said something about it's power being greater than Imperial Privilege. It wouldn't be weird at all for Types to be close to LS or FTL though, since they need to be able to cross planetary distances and all, but for some reason I wouldn't feel conformtable with scalling this feat to them.


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2013)

I more or less meant in reactions, though.
Being able to fight with an FTL character doesn't mean you're able to pass interstellar distances in a breeze.
Oh well, let's wait until CCC gets translated in full.


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## Sygurgh (Aug 30, 2013)

See you in 2020.
Though Extra was rapidly translated, so who knows.


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2013)

Mahoutsukai is progressing fairly fast, too.
I think the joke only really applies to Mirror Moon.
...and TM's infamously slow release dates.


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## JustThisOne (Aug 30, 2013)

Hollow Ataraxia


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## willyvereb (Aug 30, 2013)

...That's taking the joke too far!


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## Xam (Aug 30, 2013)

willyvereb said:


> ...That's taking the joke too far!



No such thing Willy.
No such thing.


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## Kazu (Aug 30, 2013)

Place your bets. Will the tsuki remake be release in four years or five years?


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## Regicide (Aug 30, 2013)

That's being too optimistic.

I'm thinking it'll be at least twice that.


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## Xam (Aug 30, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> Place your bets. Will the tsuki remake be release in four years or five years?



six....teen years.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 30, 2013)

Considering it took 4 years for a 9 hour long visual novel to be released, for a 30-50 hour long visual novel that might be a fair estimation. 

It's a depressing thought nevertheless.


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## Regicide (Aug 30, 2013)

Look at it this way.

It'll be released before F/HA has a completed translation.


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## Xam (Aug 30, 2013)

That's a low blow Regice.
Very low blow Registeel.

like dayum thats low Regirock.


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## Kazu (Aug 31, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> Considering it took 4 years for a 9 hour long visual novel to be released, for a 30-50 hour long visual novel that might be a fair estimation.
> 
> It's a depressing thought nevertheless.



If it's going to take this fucking long, you better make it fucking amazing Nasu.


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## Regicide (Aug 31, 2013)

I'll be satisfied as long as there's voices and Satsuki has a route.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Expect translations to be as fast as F/HA.


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