# Rank the top 10 characters [FINAL]



## Kai (Sep 9, 2015)

Rank the 10 strongest characters in the Naruto series, up to the conclusion of Boruto: Naruto the movie.

I've yet to see the film, so I'll reserve judgment on Momoshiki and Kinshiki. However, for Naruto and Sasuke include their adult versions respectively.

*Bonus*: Rank the top 20 characters (10-20).


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## Alex Payne (Sep 9, 2015)

0. Angry Himawari
1. Kaguya
2. Hagoromo(Jin)
3. Hamura
4. Madara(3rd eye)
5. Adult Naruto
6. Adult Sasuke
7. Obito(Jin)
8. Toneri(?)
9. Kakashi(Obito's chakra)
10. Red Gai

No idea about two Boruto villains. Also not sure about Asura and Indra but they are likely above Masters at least. Hard to rank the rest. A lot of people on the same level/with fluctuating performance.

11. Hashirama
12. Minato(Edo)
13. Nagato(healthy, potential)
14. Orochimaru(Edo Tensei, Zetsu body, potential)
15. Kabuto(Edo Tensei)
16. Sarutobi(Prime)
17. Itachi
18. Tobirama
19. Killer B
20. Jiraiya

Notable mentions go to Prime Hanzo, White Fang, Izuna and Danzo(Koto). Danzo with Koto is fully capable of beating quite few from that list now when I think about it. 

Inb4 shitstorm


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## Deer Lord (Sep 9, 2015)

Can't comment on momo either since haven't watched the movie, but w/e.
Also not including multiple versions of same character here.

1. Kaguya
2. Juubi Jin Haguromo
3. Madara (Final Form)
4. Hamura
5. Naruto (Rikudo Sage Mode)
6. Sasuke
7. Toneri (Tenseigan Chakra Mode)
8. Obito (Juubi Jin)
9. Kakashi (Rikudo DMS)
10. Maito Gai

No. 11-20:
11. Hashirama
12. Edo Minato
13. Nagato
14. Sage Kabuto
15. Killer B
16. Edo Itachi
17. Tobirama
18. Ei the 3rd
19. Muu
20. Oonoki


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## ueharakk (Sep 9, 2015)

1) Kaguya
2) Adult Naruto/Adult Sasuke
4) Hagoromo/Hamura
5) JJ Madara
6) Toneri
8) DMS Kakashi
9) Juubito
10) 8th gated Gai

doesn't include villains from Boruto movie + ashura indra.


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## Matty (Sep 9, 2015)

1) Sasori
2-10) Itachi


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## Bonly (Sep 9, 2015)

1)Itachi




2)Kaguya
3)The Sage
4)Madara
5)Hamura
6+7)Naruto+Sasuke
8)Toneri
9)Obito
10+11)Ashura+Indra


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 9, 2015)

Haven't seen Boruto: The Movie in its entirety, but I don't know who to trust: Sasuke saying Momoshiki was something 'far scarier' than Kaguya or the novel saying Momoshiki wasn't nearly as powerful as her.

Regardless:

1) Kaguya 
2) Adult Naruto/Adult Sasuke (Rikūdo Sage Mode, Rinnegan)
3) Hagoromo
4) Hamura
5) Jūbi Madara (with Infinite Tsukuyomi)
6) Toneri (Tenseigan)/Jūbi Madara (two Rinnegan)
7) Double Mangekyō Sharingan Kakashi
8) Eight-Gated Guy
9) Jūbi Obito
10) Ashura/Indra
11) Sage Hashirama Senju
12) Minato (Kyūbi and Edo Tensei) Namikaze
13) Nagato Uzumaki
14) Killer Bee
15) Tobirama Senju/Itachi Uchiha (Edo Tensei)
16) Sage Kabuto/Ā the Third Raikage
17) Mū
18) Ōnōki
19) Sage Jiraiya
20) Ā the Fourth Raikage


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## Godaime Tsunade (Sep 9, 2015)

Lists are fun.

*1)* Kaguya Ōtsutsuki
*2)* Juubi Jinchuuriki Madara Uchiha
*3)* Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki 
*4)* Hamura Ōtsutsuki
*5)* Rikudou Mode Naruto Uzumaki / Rikudou Mode Sasuke Uchiha
*6)* Double-Mangekyou Sharingan Kakashi Hatake
*7)* Juubi Jinchuuriki Obito Uchiha
*8)* Eight Gated Gai
*9)* Hashirama Senju
*10)* Kabuto Yakushi / Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei)

*11)* Rinnegan Obito Uchiha
*12)* Kyuubi Chakra Mode Naruto Uzumaki
*13)* Kyuubi Chakra Mode Minato Namikaze
*14)* Before-Death Madara Uchiha
*15)* Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan Sasuke
*16)* Sage Mode Kabuto Yakushi
*17)* Nagato Uzumaki
*18)* Itachi Uchiha
*19)* Minato Namikaze
*20)* Mangekyou Sharingan Kakashi Hatake

(I haven't seen the movies).​​


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## Sadgoob (Sep 9, 2015)

Imma let you finish, but I just wanna' say Itachi is the greatest genius of all time! OF ALL TIME.​


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## Kyu (Sep 9, 2015)

1.) Kaguya Ōtsutsuki
2.) Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki
3.) Hamura Ōtsutsuki
4.) Naruto Uzumaki (EoS)
5.) Sasuke Uchiha (EoS)
6.) DMS Kakashi
7.) Triclops Madara
8.) Toneri Ōtsutsuki
9.) 8th Gated Gai
10.) Jūbito


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## T-Bag (Sep 9, 2015)

Kaguya
Rinnei-Sharingan Madara (came the closest to kaguya's power)
Hagomoro (idk why people are including Hamura next to hagoromo when he didn't even become a jin- so he was no where near his brother)
JJ Obito
Naruto/Sasuke
Hashirama/hamura
Itachi
Minato

I don't consider filler/movie characters. I'm only going by the manga.


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## LostSelf (Sep 9, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Imma let you finish, but I just wanna' say Itachi is the greatest genius of all time! OF ALL TIME.​



Depend on what. In Taijutsu, it's Gai.

1) Gai
2-10: Rest.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 9, 2015)

I know this is gonna trigger some tards but let me put it out there :

1 - Itachi


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## Mercurial (Sep 9, 2015)

1) Kaguya
2) Sage of Six Paths
3) Madara
4) Kakashi
5) Naruto
6) Sasuke
7) Gai
8) Obito
9) Hamura
10) Toneri
11) Momoshiki
12) Ashura
13) Indra
14) Hashirama
15) Minato
16) Nagato
17) Tobirama
18) Kinshiki
19) Kabuto
20) Killer B


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## Kai (Sep 9, 2015)

^ What made you switch into believing Madara was above Kakashi?


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## ScottofFury (Sep 9, 2015)

Lol it is amusing seeing Gai up there with the godly hax characters. Imagine if the dude became a Jin with a chakra mode. Hoping Lee gets this in the future but this is Kishi.


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## Zef (Sep 9, 2015)

1)Kaguya
2)Hagoromo
3)Momoshiki
4)Godsuke
5)Kinshitty
6)Fodderuto
7)JJ Faildara
8)Kakashi with pity power up DMS
9)JJ Obito
10) Guy





233563216787323478888) Himawari


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## Psp123789 (Sep 9, 2015)

1) Kaguya/Itachi
2) Adult Naruto/Adult sasuke/Hagoromo
3) JJ madara
4) Hamura
5) Toneri
6) JJ obito
7) Ashura/Indra
8) DMS Kakashi
9) Red gate Gai
10) Hashirama


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## Matty (Sep 9, 2015)

Confused how Gai is consistently above Nagato... Just because of his 8th gates suicide tech?! Nagato should shit all over gai.


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## Bonly (Sep 9, 2015)

Yes the eighth gate is what allows him to be above Nagato and with it he takes a shit on Nagato


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## Sadgoob (Sep 9, 2015)

This thread needs more Itachi discussion and why he's the GOAT.


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## Clowe (Sep 9, 2015)

But isn't any battle Guy wins using 8th gates technically a tie? this is why I don't like putting characters with temporary power ups like him and Kakashi on lists like this.


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## Bonly (Sep 9, 2015)

What if Gai killed Nagato before the time on the gates ran out. At that point in time that battle is over is it not? And if the battle is over and Nagato is dead but Gai is alive, wouldn't Gai be the winner of said fight? Yup. So that's one way of looking at it. Though the other way of looking at it is that he'll end up dying eventually so at the end of the day it's a tie since he's forced to kill himself in the long run. 

So yeah it depends on how one looks at it but either way he'd take a shit on Nagato lol.


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## Matty (Sep 9, 2015)

Serious question. Battle starts and both are 50 meters apart (seems to be standard) It takes a little bit for gai to get 8th gate right? couldn't Nagato just CT his ass before that? I mean I'm not questioning that 8th gate gai shits on him but I mean can he just defy the magnetism of CT's core due to 8th gate? Again serious question.


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## Clowe (Sep 9, 2015)

> So yeah it depends on how one looks at it but either way he'd take a shit on Nagato lol.



Of course, any day, but the fact remains that he has to rely on a technique that sacrifices his life against an opponent of that caliber.

I guess it really depends on how you look at it then.


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## Matty (Sep 9, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> This thread needs more Itachi discussion and why he's the GOAT.


 
I don't think it really needs to be said. We all know he is the GOAT


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## Bonly (Sep 9, 2015)

Well Gaara was able to get away to safety when Juubi Jin Madara used CT so who knows, maybe with his speed he'd be able to get away from the core and get to Nagato


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## Sadgoob (Sep 9, 2015)

Clowe said:


> But isn't any battle Guy wins using 8th gates technically a tie? this is why I don't like putting characters with temporary power ups like him and Kakashi on lists like this.



He inexplicably survived using 8 Gates on Madara, so nah.


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## Matty (Sep 9, 2015)

Maybe that's why he deserves to be so high I guess. Dude survived 8 gates. Not sure if he is better than prime Hidan but he's close


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## ARGUS (Sep 9, 2015)

1. Kaguya
2. Hagoromo 
3. Hamura 
4. Madara 
5. Naruto
6. Sasuke 
7. Ashura
8. Indra
9. Toneri 
10. DMS kakashi/Obito 



> 1) Kaguya
> *2) Adult Naruto/Adult Sasuke
> 4) Hagoromo/Hamura*
> 5) JJ Madara
> ...


Absolutely no way are nAruto and sasuke above Hagoromo when they are literally his halves of his non Jin state 
Non Jin hagoromos yin is Rikudo Sasuke, yang is Rikudo nAruto 
Getting BPS and Ashura avatar would put them at non Jin hagoromos level but not above him and even that is a speculation 

Give hagoromo the enormous juubi boost and he becomes at a level where nAruto and sasuke get clowned 

Hamura w/o tenseigan was on par with non Jin hagoromo 
Give him the enormous TCM boost and he also jumps to a level where nAruto and sasuke get clowned 

Toneri who was completely fodder became a god tier after gaining the tenseigan applying that boost to Hamura if all people puts him on the same level as Jin hagoromo


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## RBL (Sep 9, 2015)

i do think Red Gai is the strongest character ever, he only lacks stamina


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## Matty (Sep 9, 2015)

Brandon Lee said:


> i do think Red Gai is the strongest character ever, he only lacks stamina



He doesn't lack youth though


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## tkpirate (Sep 9, 2015)

1.Kaguya
2.Hagoromo
3.Hamura
4.Ashura(Hago said he gave all his power to Ashura)
5.Madara(3 Rinnegan) and Momoshiki(final fight)
6.adult Naruto and Sasuke
7.DMS Kakashi
8.Indra
9.Toneri
10.Gai(8th gate)
11.Jubito.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 9, 2015)

Brandon Lee said:


> i do think Red Gai is the strongest character ever, he only lacks stamina



The stronger the character, the less stamina they have.


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## Joakim3 (Sep 10, 2015)

ueharakk said:


> *) Toon Tendo*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Fixed for accuracy


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## Matty (Sep 10, 2015)

Kiba > Kaguya


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## T-Bag (Sep 10, 2015)

Bonly said:


> What if Gai killed Nagato before the time on the gates ran out. At that point in time that battle is over is it not? And if the battle is over and Nagato is dead but Gai is alive, wouldn't Gai be the winner of said fight? Yup. So that's one way of looking at it. Though the other way of looking at it is that he'll end up dying eventually so at the end of the day it's a tie since he's forced to kill himself in the long run.
> 
> So yeah it depends on how one looks at it but either way he'd take a shit on Nagato lol.



Ok so out of 10 he'd take a shit on nagato once.
While nagato would take a shit on him 9/10



tkpirate said:


> 1.Kaguya
> 2.Hagoromo
> 3.Hamura
> 4.Ashura(Hago said he gave all his power to Ashura)
> ...



Thats probably the worst list I've seen in 6 years that I have here.
You power level's are inconsistent with one another.


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## Matty (Sep 10, 2015)

Gai is really tricky to rank. Can we really say he's top 10 strongest if it's only once? He obviously didn't die just because of plot. That tech is supposed to be instant death after. So if we go by that logic Danzo with Koto should easily be top ten since he can essentially kill anyone aside from the real god tiers like Kaguya


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## Bonly (Sep 10, 2015)

Yes. Just because he dies afterwords doesn't magically negate the fact that he has that huge power boost in his arsenal.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 10, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Hamura w/o tenseigan was on par with non Jin hagoromo
> Give him the enormous TCM boost and he also jumps to a level where nAruto and sasuke get clowned


How do we know that hamura didn't have tenseigan when he faced the juubi along with hagoromo?
we got to see like, a panel of that battle.


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## Ersa (Sep 10, 2015)

*1*. Kaguya Ōtsutsuki 
*2*. Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki 
*3*. Hamura Ōtsutsuki 
*4*. Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki 
*5*. Naruto Uzumaki [Adult]
*6*. Sasuke Uchiha [Adult]
*7*. Ten Tails Madara Uchiha
*8*. Toneri Ōtsutsuki 
*9*. Ten Tails Obito Uchiha
*10*. Kakashi Hatake [Rikudo]

Next 10 are 

*11*. Might Gai
*12*. Hashirama Senju
*13*. Minato Namikaze [Edo Tensei]
*14*. Nagato Uzumaki
*15*. Itachi Uchiha [Edo Tensei]
*16*. Tobirama
*17*. Kabuto Yakushi
*18*. Killer B
*19*. Jiraiya
*20*. Sakura Haruno [Adult]​Idk about Kinshiki but probably above Hashirama and below Gai.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 10, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> 16) Nagato
> 17) Tobirama
> 18) Kinshiki


Nagato and tobirama are above a guy who in a near death state cut the shinju in half and keep up with adult sasuke in CQC?


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## Kushina san (Sep 10, 2015)

Ranking of strength with characters full of power ups .... I miss the old rankings  (I do not consider suicide jutsu and i don't care of movie villains)

1) Kaguya
2) Rikudou/Hamura?
3) Madara
4) Adult Sasuke/Naruto
5) Kakashi power up
6) Ashura
7) Indra
8) Juubito
9) Hashirama
10) Minato bm


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## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

Kai said:


> ^ What made you switch into believing Madara was above Kakashi?



On a 1 vs 1 either one can win. Kakashi can't see Rinbo so he can't defend from that. But his long range Kamui is much faster (Sasuke could casually react to Rinbo, even intercept it physically, but couldn't do anything in time to defend from Kaguya's S/T, Kakashi managed to use long range Kamui outspeeding Kaguya's S/T) and so he can oneshot Madara with it (I don't believe he is immortal: and anyway if he warps his full body Madara will be trapped forever in the other dimension, until one believes that someday Madara would be able to develop Amenominaka with the third eye, but that's a big speculation); also Kamui phasing and teleporting lets him avoid everything Madara can dish, and Madara won't be able to defend from Kamui Raikiri, even with Rinbo, since the fastest version of Kaguya wasn't able to do that. Kamui teleporting lets Kakashi avoid Mugen Tsukuyomui and Gudodama are useless against long range Kamui, phasing Kamui and jutsu enhanced with Rikudo chakra. Kakashi is also smarter. 

On a portrayal note, Madara even at his best was less stronger than Kaguya. Kakashi managed to defend himself from Kaguya, counter her moves, attack and wound her 1 vs 1 and stop her counterattack, against Kaguya's strongest version (she powered up herself by absorbing chakra from the MT victims). Kakashi alone in a few moments performed better than Naruto and Sasuke together did previously, when facing a less powerful version of Kaguya, that was above Madara anyway. So if Kakashi can hold his own very very very well against Kaguya, I don't really see the problem for him to defeat Madara, or at the very very least coming close to that, even on a portrayal note.

I ranked Madara above Kakashi just because even if Kakashi is more haxxed Madara has the impressive power to basically dominate the world with Mugen Tsukuyomi. 



matty1991 said:


> Confused how Gai is consistently above Nagato... Just because of his 8th gates suicide tech?! Nagato should shit all over gai.



Yeah no. 7th Gate Gai is massively too fast for Nagato. He blitzes and unleashes Hiru Tora on his face.



blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Nagato and tobirama are above a guy who in a near death state cut the shinju in half and keep up with adult sasuke in CQC?



But didn't he have a lot of trouble with Kurotsuchi and Chojuro also?


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 10, 2015)

> But didn't he have a lot of trouble with Kurotsuchi and Chojuro also?


Kinshiki was going toe to toe with them until sasuke came in out of nowhere and broke his weapon apart(right after that chojuro and kurotsuchi took advantage and "sealed" him up). 

He only had a problem escaping the prison but seeing how he had enough power to still pull off a yoton rasenshuriken level feat afterwards...


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## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Kinshiki was going toe to toe with them until sasuke came in out of nowhere and broke his weapon apart(right after that chojuro and kurotsuchi took advantage and "sealed" him up).
> 
> He only had a problem escaping the prison but seeing how he had enough power to still pull off a yoton rasenshuriken level feat afterwards...



Well but someone able to keep up with post Rikudo Sasuke's speed should be able to instablitzneg people like Kurotsuchi and Chojuro... like kill them with a fart. I smell movie inconsistencies...


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 10, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Well but someone able to keep up with post Rikudo Sasuke's speed should be able to instablitzneg people like Kurotsuchi and Chojuro... like kill them with a fart. *I smell movie inconsistencies.*..



The bold is for certain. In the same movie momoshiki(full power state) got assaulted by boruto in free fall despite knocking away sasuke after he used his space time shifting to get behind him and attack just before.

That's why it's best to take the feats that make the most "sense" and ignore some of the stuff that resemble foolery imo.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 10, 2015)

Speed is probably the most poorly defined attribute in Naruto.


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## Ersa (Sep 10, 2015)

People claiming the movie is inconsistent with feats obviously haven't read the manga.

The manga is no better but they're both canon still.


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## tkpirate (Sep 10, 2015)

T-Bag said:


> Ok so out of 10 he'd take a shit on nagato once.
> While nagato would take a shit on him 9/10
> 
> 
> ...



no T-bag,Madara is not as strong as you think.


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## RBL (Sep 10, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> *1*. Kaguya Ōtsutsuki
> *2*. Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki
> *3*. Hamura Ōtsutsuki
> *4*. Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki
> ...



i'm sure enough adult rock lee is stronger than many of your list (since u dared to include adult sakura)


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## Matty (Sep 10, 2015)

-_- @Raikiri 7th Gate Gai might be fast but he's not getting out of CT


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## Nikushimi (Sep 10, 2015)

Strongest forms, excluding filler and no-feat characters:

0. Itachi
1. Kaguya
2. Hagoromo
3. Madara
4. Gai
5. Obito
6. Naruto/Sasuke
7. Naruto/Sasuke
8. Hashirama
9. Minato
10. Kakashi

Filler and no-feats included (a.k.a., the "lots more guesswork and bullshit" list):

0. Itachi
1. Kaguya
2. Toneri
3. Naruto/Sasuke
4. Naruto/Sasuke
5. Hagoromo/Hamura
6. Hagoromo/Hamura
7. Indra/Ashura
8. Indra/Ashura
9. Madara
10. Gai

Don't take the second list too seriously; I haven't seen Toneri's movie--I just know he splits the moon, so I put him above Hagoromo (whose best known feat is making the moon). Didn't really know what to do with Nardo and Sauce; Nardo beat Toneri, but I've read that was due to a bullshit power-up (surprise) and I just threw Sauce next to him because rivals. Literally, that was my whole thought process, and I just built everyone else around it according to genetic proximity to Kaguya. Except for Gai. You don't fuck with Gai.


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## tkpirate (Sep 10, 2015)

^ Making the moon takes far more energy than splitting it.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 10, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Don't take the second list too seriously; I haven't seen Toneri's movie--I just know he splits the moon, so I put him above Hagoromo (whose best known feat is making the moon). Didn't really know what to do with Nardo and Sauce; Nardo beat Toneri, but I've read that was due to a bullshit power-up (surprise) and I just threw Sauce next to him because rivals.


Toneri was hyped to all hell by the movie spoilers, but in actuallity he really isn't that strong.
Splitting the moon isn't as impressive as it sounds, making a moon or disintegrating one takes a lot more energy.

And naruto didn't require any powerup to beat toneri, it was just that you need hinata specifically to destroy Tenseigan/blobneri.

Toneri isn't really that higher the lower god tiers like gai or juubito.
hell, the only reason he'd beat gai is because truth-seekers


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## The Undying (Sep 10, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Well but someone able to keep up with post Rikudo Sasuke's speed should be able to instablitzneg people like Kurotsuchi and Chojuro... like kill them with a fart. I smell movie inconsistencies...




Sasuke is undoubtedly a speedster, but this is personally why I don't think he's quantitatively any faster than other known speedsters (like Minato or Ei for example) without the use of Amenotejikara. That's the only way we can reconcile the two battles without there being internal inconsistencies, since those leaked scenes clearly show Kurotsuchi knocking Kinshiki around before he could react.


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## Kai (Sep 10, 2015)

Toneri's power is being interpreted fine, but his power ranking is being pretty inflated imo, when translated to other characters. He made a chasm splitting the moon, but other characters who never displayed their full power are surely able to do similar destructive feats. Toneri is simply a top tier villain who was able to flex his full destructive might.

Secondly, and more importantly, *we know* Toneri doesn't exceed Hamura's power and is more like a mock Sage. There's no way he's on Madara's level, who required both Naruto and Sasuke with Rikudo's power to defeat. Hamura is inferior to Hagoromo.


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## Arles Celes (Sep 10, 2015)

The Undying said:


> Sasuke is undoubtedly a speedster, but this is personally why I don't think he's quantitatively any faster than other known speedsters (like Minato or Ei for example) without the use of Amenotejikara. That's the only way we can reconcile the two battles without there being internal inconsistencies, since those leaked scenes clearly show Kurotsuchi knocking Kinshiki around before he could react.



It isn't unthinkable for weaker ninjas to hurt or overwhelm a stronger one via teamwork. Weave arc Naruto and Sasuke were much weaker and slower than Zabuza and yet they managed to hurt him a bit. The gokage despite being so much weaker than Madara could put up a decent resistance till they started to run out of chakra and Madara unleashed his full power.

Therefore it isn't so hard to believe that Kurotsuchi managed to land a hit on Kinshiki with Choujuro-and for a short while Sasuke- backing her up. Besides we did not see much of that battle yet except the end.

As for Sasuke's shunshin speed it seems that he can match BM/RSM Naruto in the movie. Maybe he uses some path-like Asura- to boost his speed or maybe he just trained his body to deal with absorbers seeing how much trouble he had when Kaguya could only be fought with taijutsu and diversions. Which might explain why he starts using mass kagebunshin...


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## Nikushimi (Sep 10, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> ^ Making the moon takes far more energy than splitting it.



Understood, but my reasoning was that if Toneri could cut through a fully-formed, moon-sized Chibaku Tensei (which is Hagoromo's best Jutsu), then he should be able to destroy the core before it gathers any significant amount of debris and kill Hagoromo as well.


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## tkpirate (Sep 10, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Understood, but my reasoning was that if Toneri could cut through a fully-formed, moon-sized Chibaku Tensei (which is Hagoromo's best Jutsu), then he should be able to destroy the core before it gathers any significant amount of debris and kill Hagoromo as well.


well,Obito did make it seem like that DNA sword was Hago's best jutsu though.and also to destroy the core he would need to atleast match it's energy,and we know that the core's moon making energy>Toneri's moon splitting energy.


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## Max Thunder (Sep 10, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> 1) Kaguya
> 2) Sage of Six Paths
> 3) Madara
> 4) Kakashi
> ...



Kaguya, Hago AND Madara above Kakashi?!

I'm astonished.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 10, 2015)

Himawari
Deceased Child Obito
Kakashi as God
Uhh, Kaguya?
Asura/Indra/those other gods
Naruto
Hanabi with unlocked by Hamura eyeballs
Sasuke
Something something something power up Madara.
Juubito.
Hashirama.
Madara in some amount of forms
Tobirama
Kushina
Ino/Minato
Like....people and stuff.


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## Zef (Sep 10, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> People claiming the movie is inconsistent with feats obviously haven't read the manga.
> 
> *The manga is no better but they're both canon still.*


Tell em



Nikushimi said:


> Strongest forms, excluding filler and no-feat characters:
> 
> 0. Itachi
> 1. Kaguya
> ...


What feats do Madara, Gai, and Obito have that put them above Naruto & Sasuke? 




Max Thunder said:


> Kaguya, Hago AND Madara above Kakashi?!
> 
> I'm astonished.


It's a miracle.


----------



## Deer Lord (Sep 10, 2015)

We should do a "Rank the top 10 characters as precieved by users" thread


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## Yoko (Sep 10, 2015)

I didn't see the movies, so I have no idea about them.  I'll stick with the manga for now:

*1*. Kaguya
*2*. Sharinnegan Juubi Madara (i.e. 3 eyed)
*3*. Rikudo Naruto (post-Sage powers)
*4*. Rikudo Sasuke (post-Sage powers)
*5*. Healthy Rikudo DMS Obito (gets Kakashi's feats, but isn't on verge of death as in manga)
*6*. 8-gated Gai
*7*. Juubi Obito 
*8*. Orochimaru (Edo Tensei access)
*9*. Sage Mode Kabuto (Edo Tensei access)
*10*. Bijuu Mode Minato

If "cheating" characters like Orochimaru and Kabuto aren't allowed (since their powers essentially encompass having other shinobi under them), then bump BM Minato to #8, with Hashirama and Madara (VoTE incarnation) taking #9 and #10 respectively.


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## Blu-ray (Sep 10, 2015)

Kaguya
Hagoromo
Madara
Momoshiki (Kinshiki Absorbed)
EOS Naruto/EOS Sasuke
EOS Naruto/ EOS Sasuke
Toneri
Obito
DMS Kakashi
Gai

Got no idea how Hamura factors in so I just left him out, but probably safe to say he's at least as strong as Toneri.

Mads is where he is mainly due to hype really. Specifically the immortality thing and Sasuke and Naruto both being necessary to put him down. Sasuke probably tosses his ass in the next dimension though.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Sep 10, 2015)

How are people putting Toneri above Jubito?

He has access to God Tree/Absorption, Mugen Tsukuyomi and Juubidamas.


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

Yoko said:


> I didn't see the movies, so I have no idea about them.  I'll stick with the manga for now:
> 
> *1*. Kaguya
> *2*. Sharinnegan Juubi Madara (i.e. 3 eyed)
> ...



Obito doesn't get Kakashi's feat at all, this makes no sense. Just because Obito is the source of those powers, that won't mean he will able to use them as skillfully as Kakashi. Even Perfect Susanoo was related to Kakashi, hence the scar on the left eye, even if Obito's chakra and dojutsu was the source of that power. This doesn't make any sense especially because DMS Rikudo Kakashi was Kakashi + Obito, while DMS Rikudo Obito is Obito. 

Kakashi could do Kamui Raikiri that was something the strongest character in the manga was defenseless against, Obito even cannot do anything like that, even with the same skillset lacks Kakashi's intellect, and the fact that he would be able to perform as well as Kakashi is nothing more than a giant speculation.


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## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> How are people putting Toneri above Jubito?
> 
> He has access to God Tree/Absorption, Mugen Tsukuyomi and Juubidamas.



I don't see that either. Toneri was in the end defeated by a 100% KCM + SM Naruto. Obito can be the weakest god tier but he is definitely more comparable to a Rikudo enhanced Naruto that to a full Kyuubi Naruto who is not enhanced by Rikudo.

Also Momoshiki is not that strong, every single god tier bar Obito should be able to stomp him easily if not nerfed.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 10, 2015)

The manga only :

1-Kaguya .
2-Hagoromo JJ
3-Madara JJ + Double rinnegan + Sharinnegan
4-Rikudo Naruto 
5-Tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke + Yin Rikudo Chakra
6-Double MS + Juubi Chakra Kakashi
7-Obito JJ 
8-BM Minato
9-Hashirama 
10-EMS+Kurama Madara


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## Yoko (Sep 10, 2015)

I mainly put Obito there because he would last longer and the power-up would be more of a permanent thing rather than a "one-off".  If I'm taking into account the hypothetical scenario that Kakashi could last indefinitely in that form (or if Obito can stay inside Kakashi's system for as long as he wants), then sure, I'd feel comfortable putting him there.

*EDIT:* And sure, he can't use Kamui Raikiri, but that one move isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things (especially when you've got moves like Kamui Shuriken).  IMO, Kamui Raikiri does not outweigh actually being able to maintain the DMS form / Perfect Susano'o for an indefinite period of time.  Furthermore, it's not like Obito being the medium doesn't come with perks - Kamui / Rikudo enhanced Katons, for example.


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

Yoko said:


> I mainly put Obito there because he would last longer and the power-up would be more of a permanent thing rather than a "one-off".  If I'm taking into account the hypothetical scenario that Kakashi could last indefinitely in that form (or if Obito can stay inside Kakashi's system for as long as he wants), then sure, I'd feel comfortable putting him there.
> 
> *EDIT:* And sure, he can't use Kamui Raikiri, but that one move isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things (especially when you've got moves like Kamui Shuriken).  IMO, Kamui Raikiri does not outweigh actually being able to maintain the DMS form / Perfect Susano'o for an indefinite period of time.  Furthermore, it's not like Obito being the medium doesn't come with perks - Kamui / Rikudo enhanced Katons, for example.



Obito's chakra faded only after Kaguya's defeat, because Kaguya was defeated hence the world saved.

No, it's not, it's just something that the strongest character in the manga couldn't even try to put a counter (that even with her incredible skillset would have been useless anyway due to Kakashi's reflexes plus Kamui phasing) against. Almost irrelevant basically.

Yes, like Kakashi could do Kamui / Rikudo enhanced Suitons and combo them with Raiton to furtherly enhance the power of the attack. A simple PS slash would still far more effective anyway, any god tier can absorb normal elemental chakra attacks with Preta or dodge them, for example Kaguya can, Madara can, Sasuke can, Naruto can, Kakashi can, Momoshiki can. Kakashi's Kamui Raikiri shits on whatsoever elemental enhanced attack either Kakashi or Obito could do, by far.


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## Yoko (Sep 10, 2015)

Again, as I've already said, if Obito could indefinitely remain in Kakashi's system, then I'd be fine putting Kakashi in that spot.  The temporary nature of the power-up is the only thing deterring me from doing so.  If I am allowed to assume that Obito can stay in there for as long as the fight demands, then I would put Kakashi there.

Kamui itself is what cannot be absorbed, and with a long range variant, the benefit of Kamui Raikiri diminishes.  All Kamui Raikiri is is a CQC-based Kamui dependent on the user's speed, and I don't think the user's speed is faster than the activation of a double-ranged -Kamui.  Not only is a ranged double-Kamui probably faster than rushing at the enemy and slashing them, but it's also less predictable due to the utter lack of a visual cue.  

Literally get that same instance in manga, where she shoots bones at Kakashi, and he phases through the attack, but instead of rushing at her and slashing her he just uses his ranged Kamui variant instead (double the speed due to having both eyes) or hurls a Kamui shuriken at her - the same thing would have happened, unless you think that Kakashi can move faster than double-Kamui's activation speed or a Susano'o thrown shuriken.   It's a cool move, but in the grand scheme of things, all it has going for it is the "cool" factor and felt like a gimmick move.

Even if you disagree with me about Kamui Raikiri's superfluous nature (which is fine), having that one move and only being able to maintain the DMS form for a limited time, IMO, does not outweigh actually being able to maintain the form indefinitely.


----------



## Garcher (Sep 10, 2015)

who was called invincible by Black Zetsu( the one who knew about the abilities of all characters)?

1.


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## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

Yoko said:


> Kamui itself is what cannot be absorbed, and with a long range variant, the benefit of Kamui Raikiri diminishes.  All Kamui Raikiri is is a CQC-based Kamui dependent on the user's speed, and I don't think the user's speed is faster than the activation of a double-ranged -Kamui.  Not only is a ranged double-Kamui probably faster than rushing at the enemy and slashing them, but it's also less predictable due to the utter lack of a visual cue.
> 
> Literally get that same instance in manga, where she shoots bones at Kakashi, and he phases through the attack, but instead of rushing at her and slashing her he just uses his ranged Kamui variant instead (double the speed due to having both eyes) or hurls a Kamui shuriken at her - the same thing would have happened, unless you think that Kakashi can move faster than double-Kamui's activation speed or a Susano'o thrown shuriken.   It's a cool move, but in the grand scheme of things, all it has going for it is the "cool" factor and felt like a gimmick move.
> 
> Even if you disagree with me about Kamui Raikiri's superfluous nature (which is fine), having that one move and only being able to maintain the DMS form for a limited time, IMO, does not outweigh actually being able to maintain the form indefinitely.



Kakashi can teleport the same as Obito, even with 1 MS already he showed that, and the databook says that the one who mastered Kamui can teleport themselves, and Kakashi did that, he showed that anyway. He can teleport himself at maximized speed with both eyes as well in DMS Rikudo form. And imagine using Kamui Raikiri or long range Kamui or PS activation and slash after surprising the opponent with a teleport executed with both eyes together.

Kaguya if warped in the other dimension would just use Amenominaka (the dimension exchanging jutsu) to come back. That's why Kakashi didn't even attemp long range Kamui on her, even if she couldn't stop that and it was faster than her S/T (proved when she used S/T to counterattack Naruto and Sasuke and Kakashi used long range Kamui to warp her S/T portal away before it could even complete). Long range Kamui would be so useless even if successful (if her head is warped off she regenerates, she is immortal, and if it's her full body she comes back with Amenominaka), and Kamui Shuriken the same. And yeah Kakashi's speed enhanced with Rikudo chakra is enough that Kaguya can't just sidestep his thrust, on the opposite she is struck without being able to do anything, hence his speed hyped in the databook (), he is definitely faster than Susanoo weapons.

Let's sayu that both with the same skillset would perform equally; which is a complete shot in the dark, it could be, it couldn't be, as far as we know, it isn't. Then Kamui Raikiri can have a value of 1, 5, 50, 100. Still it's a plus for Kakashi compared to Obito. And still Kakashi adds all his smartness that Obito doesn't have.


----------



## Yoko (Sep 10, 2015)

Why are you discussing Kamui self-teleportation right now? I never mentioned that at all.  I was talking about the long-ranged variant.

Kakashi doesn't have to teleport her entire body - he could have long range Kamui'd her arm off instead of slashing it off.  Kamui Raikiri literally warps the pierced part to the other dimension.  Why would a ranged Kamui be any different? That would have been faster than rushing at her and slashing, and it would have been harder to react to since Kamui is pretty much invisible, with no visual cue.  Kamui Raikiri is a visually appealing move, but in that scenario, a ranged Kamui would have accomplished literally the same exact thing, only it wouldn't have looked half as cool.

Why would Kakashi be faster than Susano'o projectiles? Susano'o's moves have always been faster than the movements of their users.  MS Sasuke was around as fast as MS Kakashi, yet Kakashi couldn't dodge Sasuke's Susano'o arrows.  Transitioning that very same logic, why would a Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susano'o have projectiles significantly slower than Kakashi? Regardless, even if you think he is faster than Kamui shuriken . . . do you think Kakashi's speed is faster than the activation of double-Kamui? Because, otherwise, just copy and paste the same exact scenario in the manga, but instead of bum-rushing her he Kamui's her arm off from a distance.

If you really want to get technical, Obito could do the same exact thing that Kakashi did, but since he can't use Raikiri, he materializes a Susano'o arm (a capability shown by Itachi, Sasuke, Madara - pretty much all Susano'o users) and slashes her with a mini-Kamui shuriken (just like Madara can make mini Magatamas), the same way Kakashi slashed her with a Kamui Raikiri.

My main argument is that in the grand scheme of things, Kamui Raikiri isn't a game-changer.  I find it completely superfluous in light of the other weapons in his arsenal.


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

Yoko said:


> Why are you discussing Kamui self-teleportation right now? I never mentioned that at all.  I was talking about the long-ranged variant.
> 
> Kakashi doesn't have to teleport her entire body - he could have long range Kamui'd her arm off instead of slashing it off.  Kamui Raikiri literally warps the pierced part to the other dimension.  Why would a ranged Kamui be any different? That would have been faster than rushing at her and slashing, and it would have been harder to react to since Kamui is pretty much invisible, with no visual cue.  Kamui Raikiri is a visually appealing move, but in that scenario, a ranged Kamui would have accomplished literally the same exact thing, only it wouldn't have looked half as cool.
> 
> ...



I thought you was referring to that.

Well that's true, but I don't see how it's detriminental to Kamui Raikiri.

By feats he is that fast (faster than his own projectiles) since Kaguya for example could evade Sasuke's Susanoo sword like nothing but couldn't physically move away from Kakashi's dash and thrust, not even try to use her S/T to avoid that. Still Rikudo Kakashi isn't faster than his Rikudo enhanced long range Kamui, since that is much faster than Kaguya's S/T that should be logically much faster than Kaguya's physical speed.

Yeah but a healthy DMS Obito never existed, so while that is possibile is still in the realm of fanfiction.

I don't think so, on the opposite, while long range Kamui, Kamui Shuriken, Rikudo enhanced PS, double Kamui self teleporting etc are great assets I hold Kamui Raikiri in a very high regard, it's something that fuses Kamui, Raikiri and Rikudo chakra, and that left the strongest character in the manga completely defenseless, after all.


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## RBL (Sep 10, 2015)

I don't get why people think naruto or sasuke are stronger than Madara 

Madara shits on both of them at the same time to be honest.

OT : ONLY MANGA and not counting featless characters like hamura or Hagoromo's Child.

1.-Kaguya
2.- Hagoromo
3.- Final Version Madara
4.- Naruto
5.-Sasuke
6.-Gai
7.- Kakashi
8.- Juubito
9 .- Hashirama
10 .- Healthy Itachi


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## Yoko (Sep 10, 2015)

I'm not saying it's detrimental to Kamui Raikiri.  I'm saying the technique serves no real purpose other than showing the reader the versatility of Kamui's applications.  Other than that, it's a cool move and its nice to have, and you might find an isolated scenario where it's useful, but it doesn't do anything that any of the other moves _can't_ do.

First off, a sword is not a projectile.  Secondly, why are you using Sasuke's Susano'o as an example to compare to Kakashi? She dodged Sasuke's physical Chidori thrust, too, by the way, which doesn't disprove the notion that Sasuke's Susano'o is faster than him.  There are no feats indicating Kakashi is considerably faster than his projectiles.  What we do know is that MS Sasuke ~= MS Kakashi in speed and that the latter was unable to dodge an incomplete Susano'os arrows, in turn implying that Sasuke was slower than his own Susano'os arrows.

Assuming a character is healthy in a given match-up isn't really fanfiction.  We have all the factors at our disposal to make a reasonable assumption.  We have seen the extent of Obito's stamina in the war (controlling multiple Bijuu, continuous Kamui spamming, Katon spamming for days on end), and with added Rikudo chakra, it would be even more.  It isn't like I am making multiple leaps in logic to create the illustration of a healthy Obito - I have a good idea of his stamina and I know what he can do with both eyes through what Kakashi did (Perfect Susano'o, Kamui Shuriken, etc).

Overall, I believe Kamui Raikiri is not a game changer because:

 A long ranged Kamui can accomplish the same exact thing, except faster and less predictable.
 Forming a Susano'o arm with Kamui shuriken and physically slashing with it literally does the same exact thing as Kamui Raikiri - it warps what it hits without exception, as seen with those Juubi rabbit limbs.

It is nowhere near game-changing enough to say it's more useful than Obito actually being able to maintain the DMS form for a reasonable period of time.  And if a healthy DMS Obito is fan-fiction (whose capabilities I actually have a good basis for due to Obito's stamina feats and his eye's capabilities), then how is assuming Obito can remain in Kakashi's system for more than a couple of minutes any less fan-fiction?


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## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

Yoko said:


> First off, a sword is not a projectile.  Secondly, why are you using Sasuke's Susano'o as an example to compare to Kakashi? She dodged Sasuke's physical Chidori thrust, too, by the way, which doesn't disprove the notion that Sasuke's Susano'o is faster than him.  There are no feats indicating Kakashi is considerably faster than his projectiles.  What we do know is that MS Sasuke ~= MS Kakashi in speed and that the latter was unable to dodge an incomplete Susano'os arrows, in turn implying that Sasuke was slower than his own Susano'os arrows.
> 
> Assuming a character is healthy in a given match-up isn't really fanfiction.  We have all the factors at our disposal to make a reasonable assumption.  We have seen the extent of Obito's stamina in the war (controlling multiple Bijuu, continuous Kamui spamming, Katon spamming for days on end), and with added Rikudo chakra, it would be even more.  It isn't like I am making multiple leaps in logic to create the illustration of a healthy Obito - I have a good idea of his stamina and I know what he can do with both eyes through what Kakashi did (Perfect Susano'o, Kamui Shuriken, etc).
> 
> ...



Sasuke was slower than Susanoo arrows, of course, and slower than Kakashi, as Sharingan covered Kakashi could casually intercept his Chidori and outperform him in taijutsu, Sasuke had no Sharingan activated too, and Kakashi was hyped for his speed by Obito, was able to outspeed Obito, to keep up with Gated Gai even landing Raikiri on Sharingan and Rinnegan enhanced V2 when the Masters counterblitzed them, was able to react and move on par with Minato, Sasuke is very fast but doesn't come close.

But you don't know how will he perform with those powers. 

Because was ever said that Kakashi could have DMS + Rikudo chakra only for more than two minutes? No. He had for at least five minutes, in first place; and it was said that it was temporary, because it was for try to defeat Kaguya.


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## Yoko (Sep 10, 2015)

I don't think you're getting my point.  Susano'o is a chakra manifestation of the user (given the fact that they all have been unique).  If Sasuke's imperfect Susano'o throws projectiles that move faster than its user [Sasuke], why would Kakashi be able to move significantly faster than his own Perfect Susano'os projectiles? 

Regardless, you're losing sight of the main point of my original statement.  What I stated was that Kamui Raikiri was not necessary to damage Kaguya in that instance.  Following phasing through her bones, he could simply long range Kamui snipe her arm off rather than slash it off.  

I only offered Kamui Shuriken as a plausible alternative.  Even if you reject that alternative, the first point still stands, and you have already previously conceded that Kakashi cannot move faster than double Kamui's snipe speed.  And as I said, even if you think Kakashi could move faster than his own shuriken, he could always form a Susano'o arm and physically slash her with a Kamui Shuriken, effectively emulating Kamui Raikiri's effect.

I know enough to form a general idea of how Obito would perform.  The only thing that was truly exclusive to Kakashi is Kamui Raikiri.  There is no reason for me to believe that Obito would be unable to manifest a Perfect Susano'o or use Kamui Shuriken, just like Kakashi did.  Those aren't exclusive moves to Kakashi - DB4 even states that the acquisition of both eyes is what brought forth Susano'o.  

It doesn't have to be "said" that it only lasts two minutes - what we saw in the manga was Kakashi having it for a very brief period of time.  Anything beyond that is speculation, far more than me simply granting Obito the health that we have seen him demonstrate throughout the entirety of the war (barring the ending).


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## Mercurial (Sep 10, 2015)

Yoko said:


> I don't think you're getting my point.  Susano'o is a chakra manifestation of the user (given the fact that they all have been unique).  If Sasuke's imperfect Susano'o throws projectiles that move faster than its user [Sasuke], why would Kakashi be able to move significantly faster than his own Perfect Susano'os projectiles?
> 
> Regardless, you're losing sight of the main point of my original statement.  What I stated was that Kamui Raikiri was not necessary to damage Kaguya in that instance.  Following phasing through her bones, he could simply long range Kamui snipe her arm off rather than slash it off.
> 
> ...



I can agree on these points. I just don't see how you could rank DMS Rikudo Obito (that we never had in the manga, so even if it can be reasoned with logical assumptions, still never was in the manga) and not rank DMS Rikudo Kakashi that we had in the manga.


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## Yoko (Sep 10, 2015)

Kakashi is my favorite character too (just ask any of the older posters active from back in 2010, 2011 and 2012), so rest assured that it isn't out of spite.  

The main reason is, as I've said earlier, because of longevity.  If I was more confident that Kakashi could remain in that form for a reasonable amount of time, then I'd gladly put him there.  I am not - but I _am_ confident that a healthy Obito would be able to remain in that form for a reasonable time because of his impressive stamina feats throughout the war, thus why I felt more comfortable putting him there.

If it helps, I would put DMS Kakashi right under DMS Obito on that list (even if the power is temporary), but since that "double counts" characters, I decided not to.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 10, 2015)

Brandon Lee said:


> 1.-Kaguya
> 2.- Hagoromo
> 3.- Final Version Madara
> 4.- Naruto
> ...


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 10, 2015)

1. Kayuga
2. Hagoromo
3. Madara
4. Hamura
5. Naruto (assuming no rust) - Sasuke (assuming Rinnegan mastery)
6. Indra - Asura
7. Momoshiki
8. Toneri
9. Double MS Kakashi/Obito
10. Obito

10.5. Nagato* 
*Assuming that his unknown jutsu was Limbo seeing as it is the only jutsu which matches what could have happened. Plus fake Rinnegan can't use anything like Gedo Mazo or Limbo. 

11. Gai
12. Hashirama
13. Nagato
14. Kyuubi Minato
15. Kinshiki
16. Kabuto
17. Kushina
18. Killer B
19. Hiruzen (assuming he can use all non Kekkei Genkai jutsu in Konoha... this implies things like Hiraishin is something he has)
20. Tobirama


21. Oonoki
22. Gaara

Note: I assumed characters had their strongest versions e.g. Madara is Shinjudara and Obito is Juubito.

Note 2: Kabuto without ET, with ET he goes beneath Minato. 

Note 3: Gaara isn't desert Gaara. If it is desert Gaara, then he goes beneath Minato, but lower than ET Kabuto.
Tobirama is above Gaara if you want to give him his filler sword. Also if you want to consider his Raiton nature.

Note 4: Nagato is hard to place. Preta can nullify Hashirama's Mokuton. However Mokuton can be used to stop Preta and bind Nagato... but unlike PnJ Madara, he would use other Paths to get him out. Literally one ST could destroy a gated Gai. 

The 14 placement assumes he's limited to just

That's what comes to mind. Thought I'd add Gaara and Oonoki 'cause it is a shame not to put them there.

Odd, Itachi used to be in my top 20 lists... now guys like him and Kisame seemed to just disappear.


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## RBL (Sep 10, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> 1. Kayuga
> 2. Hagoromo
> 3. Madara
> 4. Hamura
> ...



oh no, neither obito or nagato are stronger than Gai bro

specially not nagato.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 11, 2015)

Brandon Lee said:


> oh no, neither obito or nagato are stronger than Gai bro
> 
> specially not nagato.



Anyone with the Rinnegan can solo Gai with one Shinra Tensei. There's a reason Kishi didn't have Madara use his full power on Gai.

Obito can take Gai easily. All he has to do is use Kamui to stay intangible. With two MS, he could just send Gai to Kamui-land, or just his head.

Gai's only good on foes who lack abilities like Rinnegan, Kamui, Gedou Dama and space-time Ninjutsu. 

Any Rinnegan user not held back by plot would use Shinra Tensei to finish Gai before he even touched them.


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## Zef (Sep 11, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> Kaguya
> Hagoromo
> Madara
> Momoshiki (Kinshiki Absorbed)
> ...


Since my first list was a troll I'll cosign this.
With minor adjustments to fit my opinion. 

Only difference is that I think DMS Kakashi is probably above JJ Obito. I also concede to Madara's placement since Naruto/Sasuke can't kill him.

Though I would like to point out if death wasn't a requirement in so many of these matches then Naruto & Sasuke could still "beat" him without killing him.

*Spoiler*: __ 







^Sealing jutsu

Hamura being near Toneri sounds about right. Not entirely sure about Momoshiki, and where he should be placed. Definitely in the top five if not near it though.


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## RBL (Sep 11, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Anyone with the Rinnegan can solo Gai with one Shinra Tensei. There's a reason Kishi didn't have Madara use his full power on Gai.
> 
> Obito can take Gai easily. All he has to do is use Kamui to stay intangible. With two MS, he could just send Gai to Kamui-land, or just his head.
> 
> ...



are you kidding me? madara almost died with Night Gai [Yagai] this madara had hashirama's DNA + all the bijuus inside him (the juubi) + 1 rinnegan.

nagato is not doing shit agains't Gai


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## Matty (Sep 11, 2015)

Nagato > Gai. Gates doesn't make you a better fighter. IF we ae talking about completely, well rounded individuals Nagato is far superior to gai. If we are talking about power for a short period of time Gai is superior because of gates. Although, Dediara isn't on any of these lists, even though C0 will kill nearly anyone... because he's dead afterwards.


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## T-Bag (Sep 11, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> no T-bag,Madara is not as strong as you think.



says the guy who put himura under rikudou sennin and above uchiha madara.

lmfao his power doesnt even come close to them 2. He was never a jinchuriki, rikudou sennin left him hanging in the dust once he became a godlife figure after absorbing the 10 tails. hamura is hashirama level max.

this is why i refuse to take battledome seriously with most people. Ya just live in your own world.



Deer Lord said:


> How do we know that hamura didn't have tenseigan when he faced the juubi along with hagoromo?
> we got to see like, a panel of that battle.


because tenseigan is as canon as super saiyan 4.

That's how we know lol



Raikiri19 said:


> Obito doesn't get Kakashi's feat at all, this makes no sense. Just because Obito is the source of those powers, that won't mean he will able to use them as skillfully as Kakashi. Even Perfect Susanoo was related to Kakashi, hence the scar on the left eye, even if Obito's chakra and dojutsu was the source of that power. This doesn't make any sense especially because DMS Rikudo Kakashi was Kakashi + Obito, while DMS Rikudo Obito is Obito.
> 
> Kakashi could do Kamui Raikiri that was something the strongest character in the manga was defenseless against, Obito even cannot do anything like that, even with the same skillset lacks Kakashi's intellect, and the fact that he would be able to perform as well as Kakashi is nothing more than a giant speculation.





dat illogical kakashi wank... lol


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## Ersa (Sep 11, 2015)

The Last is canon though.

GT was done by Toei Animation.


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## tkpirate (Sep 11, 2015)

T-Bag said:


> says the guy who put himura under rikudou sennin and above uchiha madara.
> 
> lmfao his power doesnt even come close to them 2. He was never a jinchuriki, rikudou sennin left him hanging in the dust once he became a godlife figure after absorbing the 10 tails. hamura is hashirama level max.
> 
> this is why i refuse to take battledome seriously with most people. Ya just live in your own world.



every time I read your posts I think how misinformed you're about the Narutoverse.
It's like you didn't read the 4th data book at all.
being a Juubi Jinchuriki means very little for Outsutsuki like Hago or his bro.you only get to use six paths senjutsu after you became a Juubi jin,and Hago and His bro had Six paths Senjutsu even before they fought Kaguya and sealed her.
also Hago created the moon when he wasn't a juubi jin.
we know how Kishi likes his parallels,and Hamura should be almost as Strong as Hago(without the juubi).


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## T-Bag (Sep 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> every time I read your posts I think how misinformed you're about the Narutoverse.
> It's like you didn't read the 4th data book at all.
> being a Juubi Jinchuriki means very little for Outsutsuki like Hago or his bro.you only get to use six paths senjutsu after you became a Juubi jin,and Hago and His bro had Six paths Senjutsu even before they fought Kaguya and sealed her.
> also Hago created the moon when he wasn't a juubi jin.
> we know how Kishi likes his parallels,and Hamura should be almost as Strong as Hago(without the juubi).



.....

Pre Jin Hagoromo and Hamura were Sasuke and naruto level during kaguya's fight. They are no where near Sharinnegan Madara level individually lol.  Hagomoro's power increases to god level once he becomes jinchuriki leaving hamura at the same level he was before. how u gonna put hamura above JJ madara uchiha u make no sense my dude. 

I don't need to read the 4th databook when I read the manga lol. It's you who needs to pay attention more to the manga and look at things from a perspective


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## tkpirate (Sep 12, 2015)

T-Bag said:


> .....
> 
> Pre Jin Hagoromo and Hamura were Sasuke and naruto level during kaguya's fight. They are no where near Sharinnegan Madara level individually lol.  Hagomoro's power increases to god level once he becomes jinchuriki leaving hamura at the same level he was before. how u gonna put hamura above JJ madara uchiha u make no sense my dude.
> 
> I don't need to read the 4th databook when I read the manga lol. It's you who needs to pay attention more to the manga and look at things from a perspective



No,Hago and Hamura were stronger.only Hago and Hamura were enough to seal Kaguya.Naruto and Sasuke needed Obito and Kakashi's help to seal her + PIS.without these Naruto and Sasuke would never be able to seal Kaguya.
also in your previous post you said Hamura was Hashirama level and now you're saying he was sage powered  Naruto and Sasuke level
Hago was already at the god Level otherwise he and Hamura wouldn't be able to seal Kaguya.
it would make sense if you think about how Madara got fodderized by Kaguya's will,and Hamura wasn't fodderized like that. + if you think about how he should be almost as strong as non-Juubi jin Hago who could created a moon.
you should keep up with all canon materials otherwise you wouldn't have the complete idea.


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## T-Bag (Sep 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> No,Hago and Hamura were stronger.only Hago and Hamura were enough to seal Kaguya.Naruto and Sasuke needed Obito and Kakashi's help to seal her + PIS.without these Naruto and Sasuke would never be able to seal Kaguya.
> also in your previous post you said Hamura was Hashirama level and now you're saying he was sage powered  Naruto and Sasuke level
> Hago was already at the god Level otherwise he and Hamura wouldn't be able to seal Kaguya.
> it would make sense if you think about how Madara got fodderized by Kaguya's will,and Hamura wasn't fodderized like that. + if you think about how he should be almost as strong as non-Juubi jin Hago who could created a moon.
> you should keep up with all canon materials otherwise you wouldn't have the complete idea.



6 paths naruto and Rinnegan sasuke aren't that much stronger than hashirama senju lol. 
Rinnegan sasuke and 6 paths naruto are NOT god level rofl. Kaguya/Madara/hagoromo/obito are god level, not the rest.
Madara was more or less Hagoromo's level without the rinnei-sharinganl, this was confirmed by hagomoro himself

and zetsu could not fodderize madara straight up in battle. it took a ridiciolous amount of PiS to do what zetsu did. B. zetsu couldn't even retreive the rinnegan from a dying obito


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## tkpirate (Sep 12, 2015)

T-Bag said:


> 6 paths naruto and Rinnegan sasuke aren't that much stronger than hashirama senju lol.
> Rinnegan sasuke and 6 paths naruto are NOT god level rofl. Kaguya/Madara/hagoromo/obito are god level, not the rest.
> Madara was more or less Hagoromo's level without the rinnei-sharinganl, this was confirmed by hagomoro himself
> 
> and zetsu could not fodderize madara straight up in battle. it took a ridiciolous amount of PiS to do what zetsu did. B. zetsu couldn't even retreive the rinnegan from a dying obito



sage powered Naruto and Sasuke are stronger than Hashi by good amount
sage powered Naruto is definitely Demi-god tier and definitely stronger than Juubito,when he can over power Juudara(one Rinnegan)and hurt Kaguya the way he did.
Hago never said Madara was on his level,he said Madara achieved a power close to him 
BZ infused Kaguya's will in Madara's body when he Stabbed him and Kaguya took over his body,he didn't even put up a fight,and it's not really PIS when Kaguya is much stronger than Madara.


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## T-Bag (Sep 12, 2015)

oh wow I just noticed youre the same person that I've been debating with on the Momoshiki/Toneri vs Madara thread. I just noticed the same illogical bullshit

nvm


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## Pirao (Sep 12, 2015)

T-Bag said:


> *6 paths naruto and Rinnegan sasuke aren't that much stronger than hashirama senju lol. *
> Rinnegan sasuke and 6 paths naruto are NOT god level rofl. Kaguya/Madara/hagoromo/obito are god level, not the rest.
> Madara was more or less Hagoromo's level without the rinnei-sharinganl, this was confirmed by hagomoro himself
> 
> and zetsu could not fodderize madara straight up in battle. it took a ridiciolous amount of PiS to do what zetsu did. B. zetsu couldn't even retreive the rinnegan from a dying obito


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## tkpirate (Sep 12, 2015)

yeah,saying Sage powered Naruto and Sasuke aren't much stronger than Hashirama isn't illogical 
saying Juubito is above Six paths Senjutsu Naruto isn't illogical
arguing from belief isn't illogical
do you even know what logic means?


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## wooly Eullerex (Sep 12, 2015)

01 Kaguya
02 Naruto
03 Sasuke
04 Madara
05 Hashirama
06 Obito
07 Nagato
08 Kabuto
09 Itachi
10 Orochimaru


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 15, 2015)

Brandon Lee said:


> are you kidding me? madara almost died with Night Gai [Yagai] this madara had hashirama's DNA + all the bijuus inside him (the juubi) + 1 rinnegan.
> 
> nagato is not doing shit agains't Gai





Madara didn't even use the Rinnegan against Madara for the reason he didn't really use its max power on most people: plot. Fact it, one ST from Madara and Gai would be broken and dead. 

Nagato would finish a gated Gai with one ST; Madara would finish a gated Gai several times over with one ST. Even Limbo can just stomp Gai.


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## Baroxio (Sep 17, 2015)

I don't understand people who put Madara over Naruto and/or Sasuke. Either one of the two could solo him. They absolutely trounced him as soon as they came back to life, and even after he regained his eye he was on the defensive the entire time, attempting to buy time for Mugen Tsukyomi. Immediately after that he was taken out like a bitch.

And that was when neither of the two had a good grasp of their new powers. They later go on to show much more impressive shit in their battle right after.


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## Yoko (Sep 17, 2015)

They were double-teaming him, though, which oversells their performance and lightened their individual load, and they were only truly trouncing him when he had one Rinnegan.  After that, he was controlling the flow of the battle, and being able to keep them both at bay while he cast the Genjutsu is proof of that.  And Madara didn't have a grasp on their powers, either - he was completely confused as to how Sasuke's Rinnegan teleportation technique worked.

Furthermore, there is also the admittedly subjective assumption that Madara did not showcase everything he is capable of.  He never showed us a Juubi powered Susano'o (which would probably be something like what Sasuke had, possibly even stronger since he is a direct host), and combined with Limbo, something like that would be insanely powerful.  It also doesn't help that Minato and Kakashi S/T'd all of his Truthseekers either, and we saw how helpful those can be in the hands of Juubi Obito.

Naruto would have lost to the Eternal Tsukiyomi if Sasuke wasn't there, and Sasuke I can see being overwhelmed by hypothetical Juubi-powered Susano'o Limbo clones.


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## Baroxio (Sep 17, 2015)

Eh, I suppose it's possible if we go by theoretical limit rather than what was shown. It's a testament to how terrible the writing is that Kishimoto's villains are defeated without showcasing their entire arsenal. Madara not even using the Rinnegan's other abilities besides Preta Realm is proof of that.


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