# Luffy vs Mr 1



## ClannadFan (Dec 28, 2020)

If Luffy fought Mr 1 instead of Zoro, could he of won? IMO he seems like a bad match up for Luffy.


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## convict (Dec 28, 2020)

Luffy bullshits his ass to another win even though he’s a horrible matchup

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 5 | Winner 2


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## Heart Over Blade (Dec 28, 2020)

Sure, Luffy could already break through steel weapons and armor at that point and had stats comparable to Crocodile by the time of the 3rd fight. He's going to take a lot of damage from Mr 1 before pulling off a win, but Mr 1 doesn't have immunity to Luffy's blunt attacks.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## ClannadFan (Dec 29, 2020)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Sure, Luffy could already break through steel weapons and armor at that point and had stats comparable to Crocodile by the time of the 3rd fight. He's going to take a lot of damage from Mr 1 before pulling off a win, but Mr 1 doesn't have immunity to Luffy's blunt attacks.


I feel like Luffy would take more damage from hitting Mr 1 than Mr 1 would take from getting hit by Luffy. Zoro had swords, so he didn't have to worry about that, but Luffy's basically going to be punching a blade.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Dec 29, 2020)

ClannadFan said:


> I feel like Luffy would take more damage from hitting Mr 1 than Mr 1 would take from getting hit by Luffy. Zoro had swords, so he didn't have to worry about that, but Luffy's basically going to be punching a blade.


Mr 1 hasn't really shown the ability to sprout blades from any place other than his limbs. Luffy could just hit his torso and head. Worst comes to worst, Luffy would just do what he did to Enel with Golden Rifle, by grabbing a big chunk of metal or rock debris to both strengthen his own attacks and protect himself from blade damage.

Reactions: Like 1 | Creative 1


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## Corax (Dec 29, 2020)

Luffy should win extreme diff. But after this fight he will be bleeding heavily from many cuts on his body.


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## Tenma (Dec 29, 2020)

Luffy already had the ability to break steel by Alabasta, and is generally way faster and stronger than Daz, so its largely a matter of him being able to win the battle of attrition of taking damage whenever he punches Daz

This being Luffy I have no doubt he will, with high diff or so.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Dec 29, 2020)

Didn't Luffy eventually smash through Don kreig's superarmour and crush arlong's steel blade with his bare hands?

Yeah, I don't see how he doesn't eventually take down Mr. 1.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mob (Dec 29, 2020)

Based on their best feats Luffy tears Mr1 head off



VS

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## Delta Shell 1 (Dec 29, 2020)

He is a bad match up for Luffy but I still don't see Luffy losing. He'd block his blades with his sandals or some shit.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Zed Ecks (Dec 29, 2020)

On the subject of whether Luffy is at risk because he's not immune to slash damage, neither is Zoro, who got cut up bad, but still managed to survive, and win.


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## Shunsuiju (Dec 29, 2020)

He's a better matchup than for Zoro, and Daz Bones couldn't touch Zoro without his devil fruit, so Luffy would give him the Don Krieg treatment, with a bit more difficulty.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Draco Bolton (Dec 29, 2020)

Fluffy win extrem diff. With perhaps, in the worst case, one arm less, assuming plot armor is removed.


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## xmysticgohanx (Dec 30, 2020)

Luffy beats him easily. zoro oneshot him. It was only a long fight because he was dealing 0 damage the whole time


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## VileNotice (Dec 30, 2020)

convict said:


> Luffy bullshits his ass to another win even though he’s a horrible matchup


This, by battledome standards Croc would have high diffed blood Luffy at worst


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## savior2005 (Dec 31, 2020)

Luffy beats his ass but will suffer some damage.


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## muchentuchen (Dec 31, 2020)

Mr.1 would have killed Luffy badly, that's an indisputable fact. Oda separated them so far away, it took Marineford for their meeting. On the other hand, if Zoro did not have the water knowledge, Croc would have beaten him too. But if there was a round 2 with water? Rip Croc.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Optimistic 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Dec 31, 2020)

Luffy would eventually smash Mr 1 to pieces


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## Gin (Dec 31, 2020)

luffy turns his arm into a gum gum sword which is stronger than steel

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Isazi (Dec 31, 2020)

Mr 1 was an important match up for Zoro because it can be hard to Slice steel. Plus mr 1 was pretty bad ass. Luffy simply outspeeding mr 1 and unleashing axe kick to his cranium wouldn't have been as satisfying o feats. Mr 1 was just a guy made of really hard steel and the trial was cutting him. Given the circumstances Sanji may have been able to beat him. if your still having trouble understanding the concept take a paper towl roll and try cutting a piece of paper in half and you'll see the problem.


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## Captain Altintop (Dec 31, 2020)

Kroczilla said:


> Didn't Luffy eventually smash through Don kreig's superarmour and crush arlong's steel blade with his bare hands?
> 
> Yeah, I don't see how he doesn't eventually take down Mr. 1.


Yes, but  Krieg's armour is not a living being ... more like category weapon.
While Mr.1's steel properties are affected by his own skillset in terms of DF mastery combined with his physical stats and possibly haki level. Every living being possesses a haki level even if subconsciously. 

I am sure that Arabasta Zoro - before fighting Mr.1 - would be able to slice through Krieg's armour with his strength and new weapons. Maybe not with 1 slash but depending on the force and technique definitely fast enough.
Didn't Zoro cut a huge steel chain which connected two Navy Ships when they were surrounded by Marines (possibly a filler though  ) ?
That was way before the fight against Mr.1 if I'm not mistaken. Similar principal here as above.

-----------------

Luffy wins with nothing less than *extreme *(mid-low) diff imo, but he has enough firepower to hurt Mr.1 from the very be ginning with also getting injured in exchange.
Why not making *extreme *(low / mid-low / mid / mid-high / high) Kappa
------------------

Happy New Yeaaaar 2021 
2020 we will miss you Kappa

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Dec 31, 2020)

Captain Altintop said:


> Yes, but  Krieg's armour is not a living being ... more like category weapon.
> While Mr.1's steel properties are affected by his own skillset in terms of DF mastery combined with his physical stats and possibly haki level. Every living being possesses a haki level even if subconsciously.


Daz's steel defense if just a side effect of him being a sword. How he forms blades and his cutting power will be determined by skill and mastery, but his steel defense is passive. He cannot make himself "more steel"



> Luffy wins with nothing less than *extreme *(mid-low) diff imo, but he has enough firepower to hurt Mr.1 from the very be ginning with also getting injured in exchange.


Hitting Daz with your fists doesn't actually require hurting yourself unless you're punching one of his transformed limb blades.

Random points....
He specifies that its cutting that has no effect on him:

He's introduced getting sent flying out of a building by Mr 2


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## TheWiggian (Dec 31, 2020)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Daz's steel defense if just a side effect of him being a sword. How he forms blades and his cutting power will be determined by skill and mastery, but his steel defense is passive. He cannot make himself "more steel"
> 
> 
> Hitting Daz with your fists doesn't actually require hurting yourself unless you're punching one of his transformed limb blades.
> ...



Doesn't look like he was hurt by that. So not sure how that empowers your argument. Zoro sent him flying and knocked the guy through buildings/streets by swordstrikes too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Dec 31, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Doesn't look like he was hurt by that. So not sure how that empowers your argument. Zoro sent him flying and knocked the guy through buildings/streets by swordstrikes too.



Zoro never sent Daz flying or pushed him through a building that I recall but the reason I posted that was to show that engaging Mr 1 barehanded and hitting him doesn't mean you're getting auto sliced.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 31, 2020)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Zoro never sent Daz flying or pushed him through a building that I recall but the reason I posted that was to show that engaging Mr 1 barehanded and hitting him doesn't mean you're getting auto sliced.



Not really, that's just half the truth. You tried to push the narrative of only cutting/hacking not affecting him while providing a panel where he gets kicked through a wall, which means nothing as he is shown unhurt without a single scratch from it either.


*Spoiler*: __ 













Also not sure Daz is only impervious to slashing attacks as some translation also cover blunt damage of the panel you posted. I could ask someone for a raw translation but given Bon's kick (which is compareable to Sanji's at that time) didn't do a thing, it's safe to say blunt damage isn't affecting him either.


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## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2020)

Luffy mid diff.

He punched through layers of bedrock against Crocodile, reducing Mr 1 to a crumpled up tin can is nothing to him. He just has to watch so he doesn't overstretch and leave his limbs exposed.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kroczilla (Dec 31, 2020)

Captain Altintop said:


> Didn't Zoro cut a huge steel chain which connected two Navy Ships when they were surrounded by Marines (*possibly a filler *though


Yep. Zoro couldn't cut steel until arabasta. Iirc he couldn't even cut through Mr. 3's wax DF that supposedly had steel like durability.


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## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Not really, that's just half the truth. You tried to push the narrative of only cutting/hacking not affecting him while providing a panel where he gets kicked through a wall, which means nothing as he is shown unhurt without a single scratch from it either.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Huh. He's not immune to blunt attacks just like he's not immune to slashing attacks. His fruit isn't Buggy's or Luffy's, if you can bend steel with your punches or you can cut steel, you can damage him. Why would it work any other way?

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Dec 31, 2020)

Kroczilla said:


> Yep. Zoro couldn't cut steel until arabasta. Iirc he couldn't even cut through Mr. 3's wax DF that supposedly had steel like durability.



How would you know? Since he never actually tried?



Vivo Diez said:


> Huh. He's not immune to blunt attacks just like he's not immune to slashing attacks. His fruit isn't Buggy's or Luffy's, if you can bend steel with your punches or you can cut steel, you can damage him. Why would it work any other way?



Considering breath of steel is haki now, it's self-explanatory that he cannot be harmed without.


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## Kroczilla (Dec 31, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> How would you know? Since he never actually tried?


Coz his stated goal when facing daz was to be able to cut steel




TheWiggian said:


> Considering breath of steel is haki now, it's self-explanatory that he cannot be harmed without.


This is fallacious. 

Just coz zoro needed breath of steel to cut daz doesn't mean Luffy who had been smashing through and crushing steel all throughout east blue and who smash through dozens of layers of bedrock and upturned several large buildings in the process, would need it.

Anyone with the physical strength to smash steel will smash steel.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 31, 2020)

Kroczilla said:


> Coz his stated goal when facing daz was to be able to cut steel



This doesn't prove he tried to cut Mr.3's wax.



Kroczilla said:


> This is fallacious.
> 
> Just coz zoro needed breath of steel to cut daz doesn't mean Luffy who had been smashing through and crushing steel all throughout east blue and who smash through dozens of layers of bedrock and upturned several large buildings in the process, would need it.
> 
> Anyone with the physical strength to smash steel will smash steel.



I mean if we take the characters words for granted like steel hard wax for example why not Daz Bones words too?

But i think it's more denial of the quality or hardness of the substances which got different levels. Cuz last i checked a post ts Luffy that covered his head in Haki could only dent a steel squad shield despite smashing through way harder, more massive steel objects without haki and post ts stats in the past.


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## Kroczilla (Dec 31, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> This doesn't prove he tried to cut Mr.3's wax



But it doesn't prove he can, does it? Also iirc zoro tried cutting off his legs instead of the wax. 



TheWiggian said:


> I mean if we take the characters words for granted like steel hard wax for example why not Daz Bones words too?



Because there is a difference between saying "X is as hard as steel" and "X can't be hurt except by a very specific method".

One is simply descriptive. The other is straight NLF.



TheWiggian said:


> But i think it's more denial of the quality or hardness of the substances which got different levels. Cuz last i checked a post ts Luffy that covered his head in Haki could only dent a steel squad shield despite smashing through way harder more massive steel objects without haki and post ts stats in the past.


Seems like PIS then.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 31, 2020)

Kroczilla said:


> But it doesn't prove he can, does it? Also iirc zoro tried cutting off his legs instead of the wax.



Yea he went straight for his legs, he never actually tried to cut the wax.



Kroczilla said:


> Because there is a difference between saying "X is as hard as steel" and "X can't be hurt except by a very specific method".



Bones was never harmed by blunt attacks and the only 2 times he was hurt was by a haki coated blade.



Kroczilla said:


> One is simply descriptive. The other is straight NLF.



NLF? How? Nothing suggests steel types in one piece are the same aka Daz Bones can be harder than any steel Luffy broke in the past or even now, who knows. Pacifistas are hailed as way harder than steel as example and got one shot by the M3 easily post TS and then we find out that with same haki application against them (arguably improved willpower and stats in the following arcs) Luffy and Sanji can just put dents into steel objects instead of shattering/breaking them.



Kroczilla said:


> Seems like PIS then.



 yea something that ruins my argument I'd probably label as PIS too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Considering breath of steel is haki now, it's self-explanatory that he cannot be harmed without.


Oh wow, so Crocodile wouldn't be able to injure Mr 1 with his hook either  ?


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## TheWiggian (Dec 31, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> Oh wow, so Crocodile wouldn't be able to injure Mr 1 with his hook either  ?



Why would it injure him in the first place? Or better said how?

His easiest option would remain drying him out if Mr. 1 has no access to water.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Why would it injure him in the first place? Or better said how?
> 
> His easiest option would remain drying him out if Mr. 1 has no access to water.


So Mihawk easily sliced Mr 1, but didn't cut off Crocodile's hook when they clashed. How does that work?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kroczilla (Dec 31, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea he went straight for his legs, he never actually tried to cut the wax.


So the fact the he went straight for the option of permanently disabling himself as opposed to simply cutting the wax doesn't tell you anything at all?


TheWiggian said:


> Bones was never harmed by blunt attacks and the only 2 times he was hurt was by a haki coated blade.



And how many times did bones face an opponent capable of smashing steel in an extended battle?





TheWiggian said:


> NLF? How? Nothing suggests steel types in one piece are the same aka Daz Bones can be harder than any steel Luffy broke in the past or even now, who knows


Speculation. Also we atleast know that bones is far less durable than even basic takkai from cp9 agents like blueno considering zoro needed a massive power up to cut through that several arcs after arabasta.

Mention bones in the same sentence as pacifista is straight up laughable.




TheWiggian said:


> Pacifistas are hailed as way harder than steel as example and got one shot by the M3 easily post TS and then we find out that with same haki application against them (arguably improved willpower and stats in the following arcs) Luffy and Sanji can just put dents into steel objects instead of shattering/breaking them.



See above.

Yes, different grades of steel exists, but daz couldn't even hold a candle to blueno in the durability department, talkless of pacifistas.



TheWiggian said:


> yea something that ruins my argument I'd probably label as PIS too.


Nah, just anything that contradicts established power lvls for the sake of advancing the plot.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 1, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> So Mihawk easily sliced Mr 1, but didn't cut off Crocodile's hook when they clashed. How does that work?



Just like he didn't cut Mr. 1 with the first attack.



Kroczilla said:


> So the fact the he went straight for the option of permanently disabling himself as opposed to simply cutting the wax doesn't tell you anything at all?



All iam saying is he didn't try to cut the wax. Rest is none of my concern.



Kroczilla said:


> And how many times did bones face an opponent capable of smashing steel in an extended battle?



No idea. Just saying that the only 2 times he ever been injured on panel was by haki involved.



Kroczilla said:


> Speculation. Also we atleast know that bones is far less durable than even basic takkai from cp9 agents like blueno considering zoro needed a massive power up to cut through that several arcs after arabasta.



Not really Zoro didn't know they can harden their bodies in W7, therefore failing to cut Lucci's leo arm. He tried to cut Kaku with lions song but the latter intercepted it with a kick instead of tanking it with tekkai.



Kroczilla said:


> Mention bones in the same sentence as pacifista is straight up laughable.



I didn't. I made an example how post ts Sanji and Luffy easily smash a Pacifista with haki and improved stats from the 2 year training but failed to break a steel shield at FI and steel door in PH respectively.

Also iam not ruling out that current Daz is more durable than said Pacifista. Since he just like Crocodile went to the new world again, had time to improve and got a resolve upgrade.



Kroczilla said:


> See above.
> 
> Yes, different grades of steel exists, but daz couldn't even hold a candle to blueno in the durability department, talkless of pacifistas.



Blueno is baseless. Already said i didn't compare Alabasta Daz to a Pacifista.



Kroczilla said:


> Nah, just anything that contradicts established power lvls for the sake of advancing the plot.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Captain Altintop (Jan 1, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> So Mihawk easily sliced Mr 1, but didn't cut off Crocodile's hook when they clashed. How does that work?


Bad writing or Oda didn't care about. It's pretty clear that Mihawk would shitstomp him if he really wanted to. 

Mihawk as well as Kizaru are the most laid back ones.


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## Beast (Jan 1, 2021)

Lol, luffy turns Daz into Bellamy.

one punch to face be it just his normal body, steel body or spinning razor attack, luffy will just punch hard enough to break him.

bedrock>>> Daz durabilty.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 1, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You tried to push the narrative


.....no? If I were trying to mislead someone I would have left out the part where Daz gets up unhurt, yes? My argument is that we've seen Luffy smash steel so he'll definitely smash Daz as well.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 1, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> Bad writing or Oda didn't care about. It's pretty clear that Mihawk would shitstomp him if he really wanted to.
> 
> Mihawk as well as Kizaru are the most laid back ones.


That wasn't my point.

It's Wiggian's logic of breath of steel being a requirement to injure Mr 1, going as far to say that Mr 1 couldn't be injured by Croc's hook, when Croc could at least parry Mihawk's slash with his hook while Mihawk easily sliced past Mr 1.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 1, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> .....no? If I were trying to mislead someone I would have left out the part where Daz gets up unhurt, yes? My argument is that we've seen Luffy smash steel so he'll definitely smash Daz as well.



Now you just have to prove Don Kriegs armor is just as hard as Daz steel body. It's already been shown that mass and quality of steel plays a role.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Mercurial (Jan 1, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> That wasn't my point.
> 
> It's Wiggian's logic of breath of steel being a requirement to injure Mr 1, going as far to say that Mr 1 couldn't be injured by Croc's hook, when Croc could at least parry Mihawk's slash with his hook while Mihawk easily sliced past Mr 1.


The "Crocodile parried attack from Mihawk" bullshit is something I'd never thought to see still in 2020. And yet here it is freaking 2021. It's like people aren't smart enough to literally understand panels. It was Crocodile who attacked Mihawk, and Mihawk parried him, easily I might add.

It can clearly be seen that Mihawk is going to attack Rufy, while Crocodile is nowhere to be seen. Then it's showed that Mihawk is reacting to something. It's Crocodile, who suddenly attacked Mihawk with the hook. Mihawks easily reacted and parried the attack with the plate of his sword, and that's it.



It's also obvious from Crocodile's open shape body position, typical and logical for someone who's attacking, and Mihawk's close shape body position, typical and logical for someone who's defending. Also Mihawk's blade is clearly used to parry, not to slash, he uses the flat side of the blade, not the cutting side.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 1, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> The "Crocodile parried attack from Mihawk" bullshit is something I'd never thought to see still in 2020. And yet here it is freaking 2021. It's like people aren't smart enough to literally understand panels. It was Crocodile who attacked Mihawk, and Mihawk parried him, easily I might add.
> 
> It can clearly be seen that Mihawk is going to attack Rufy, while Crocodile is nowhere to be seen. Then it's showed that Mihawk is reacting to something. It's Crocodile, who suddenly attacked Mihawk with the hook. Mihawks easily reacted and parried the attack with the plate of his sword, and that's it.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.

I'm not really invested in the Crocodile vs Mihawk feat argument, but in the "nobody can hurt Mr 1 unless they have haki" claim. Which is just an annoying premise for the sake of being annoying.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 1, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Now you just have to prove Don Kriegs armor is just as hard as Daz steel body. It's already been shown that mass and quality of steel plays a role.


No I don't. It's entirely up to you if you want to believe Krieg's armor is made of steel inferior to that of a katana.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 1, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> No I don't. It's entirely up to you if you want to believe Krieg's armor is made of steel inferior to that of a katana.



Nah not really we have seen post ts Luffy with haki failing to shatter steel similiar to don kriegs armor in thickness just as an example to throw in here. Iam saying that based on that Daz Bones steel body could be way harder, because i don't know exactly as it's not directly stated. If you're of the opinion this happens:



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> .....no? If I were trying to mislead someone I would have left out the part where Daz gets up unhurt, yes? My argument is that we've seen Luffy smash steel so he'll definitely smash Daz as well.



I would like to see the evidence for that. 

Guess Luffy gets weaker as the story goes on:


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 2, 2021)

Reading the arguments, I'm leaning towards Mr.1 winning, extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Nah not really we have seen post ts Luffy with haki failing to shatter steel similiar to don kriegs armor in thickness just as an example to throw in here. Iam saying that based on that Daz Bones steel body could be way harder, because i don't know exactly as it's not directly stated. If you're of the opinion this happens:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A gag attack against a fodder. You can't really be making the argument that Luffy would have trouble with steel post-ts if he actually tried.

Luffy ripped apart a massive steel door in Ennies Lobby with a single g3 attack:



Even before that, he destroyed the Franky gang guy's "super armor" that was supposed to be so durable even canon balls couldn't scratch it:

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sherlōck (Jan 2, 2021)

Daz Bones get Bellamy treatment.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> All iam saying is he didn't try to cut the wax. Rest is none of my concern.


And all I'm saying is that people far more durable than bones have been wrecked by attacks without haki. You are still dwelling on blatant NLF.



TheWiggian said:


> Not really Zoro didn't know they can harden their bodies in W7, therefore failing to cut Lucci's leo arm. He tried to cut Kaku with lions song but the latter intercepted it with a kick instead of tanking it with tekkai.


Just no. There were several instances of Kali taking zoro slashes on his body. Not to mention Enemies lobby zoro is far above half dead arabasta zoro.




TheWiggian said:


> I didn't. I made an example how post ts Sanji and Luffy easily smash a Pacifista with haki and improved stats from the 2 year training but failed to break a steel shield at FI and steel door in PH respectively.


Hence it's either PIS or the metal could be of the same kind used by the marines to stop WB's quake. It's irrelevant as it does not have any relevance to the versions of the characters in this thread.




TheWiggian said:


> Also iam not ruling out that current Daz is more durable than said Pacifista. Since he just like Crocodile went to the new world again, had time to improve and got a resolve upgrade.



It's too bad this isn't a thread about current daz.



TheWiggian said:


> Blueno is baseless. Already said i didn't compare Alabasta Daz to a Pacifista.


Blueno would destroy arabasta daz so he isn't baseless.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (Jan 2, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> A gag attack against a fodder. You can't really be making the argument that Luffy would have trouble with steel post-ts if he actually tried.
> 
> Luffy ripped apart a massive steel door in Ennies Lobby with a single g3 attack:
> 
> ...



Yea he used G3 for that door at EL, he didn't have that during Alabasta and that super armor isn't mentioned to have some special sort of durability, also considering this was way post Alabasta with skypia in between it's not even an argument here.



Kroczilla said:


> And all I'm saying is that people far more durable than bones have been wrecked by attacks without haki. You are still dwelling on blatant NLF.



Meh so Sanji failing to break a steel door at PH is also NLF now.



Kroczilla said:


> Just no. There were several instances of Kali taking zoro slashes on his body. Not to mention Enemies lobby zoro is far above half dead arabasta zoro.



Yea he took sword slashes that aren't haki coated unlike lions song which utilizes breath of steel aka armament haki retrospectively, which he rather countered with a kick instead of tanking.



Kroczilla said:


> Hence it's either PIS or the metal could be of the same kind used by the marines to stop WB's quake. It's irrelevant as it does not have any relevance to the versions of the characters in this thread.



So after all you agree there are different sorts of steel with varying durability. I don't need more than that. Also clearly from a powerlevel standpoint it's:

Krieg armor < Kiribachi < potentially Galdino's wax < Daz Bones steel armor < EL steel door < Pacifista < steel squad shields < PH steel door, which makes the most sense.



Kroczilla said:


> It's too bad this isn't a thread about current daz.



He doesn't need to be because he is handily more durable than anything prior to Alabasta from a powerlevel perspective.



Kroczilla said:


> Blueno would destroy arabasta daz so he isn't baseless.



He probably would. He isn't more durable than him though, which was your argument from the start, now you shifted the goalpost from durability to battle power. Think iam done here.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Kroczilla (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Meh so Sanji failing to break a steel door at PH is also NLF now.


That would be "PIS" or simply a higher grade of steel similar to the one that stopped WB.

I don't understand how this is complicated.




TheWiggian said:


> Yea he took sword slashes that aren't haki coated unlike lions song which utilizes breath of steel aka armament haki retrospectively, which


Now you are just straight up making shit up. The concept of haki coating wasn't introduced until well after Ennies Lobby. Before that, what was said was that zoro could cut steel, something he did repeatedly after alabasta including slicing a steel train cabin in half but he couldn't cut through tekkai as easily.

The burdens on you to prove that for some reason, zoro wasn't "trying to cut steel" against an opponent he knew couldn't literally replicate the hardness of steel.




TheWiggian said:


> So after all you agree there are different sorts of steel with varying durability. I don't need more than that. Also clearly from a powerlevel standpoint it's:
> 
> Krieg armor < Kiribachi < potentially Galdino's wax < Daz Bones steel armor < EL steel door < Pacifista < steel squad shields < PH steel door, which makes the most sense.


Most of this is pure head canon tbh. Yes there are different grades of steel, but there's no proof dad's steel in alabasta was anymore durable than regular old steel.

Heck it wouldn't even make sense that zoro went from being completely unable to cut steel to literally jumping tiers as you are suggesting.




TheWiggian said:


> He probably would. He isn't more durable than him though, which was your argument from the start, now you shifted the goalpost from durability to battle power. Think iam done here.




He is more durable which is one of the reasons why he would destroy daz. Daz nothing more than a stepping stone to what tekkai was.


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## muchentuchen (Jan 2, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> That would be "PIS" or simply a higher grade of steel similar to the one that stopped WB.


Stopped reading at this. Sanji fans comparing a small jail door to keep KIDS in to Marinefords last secret defense and then link Sanji to WB. Zoro slashed one like nothing, Franky blasted one open and so would any decent pirate in the NW. Let's say it again, Zoro cut steel 5000 chapters ago, Sanji threw his entire arsenal at a bubu steel gate in last weeks chapter, and nope, can't do it. Sanji was struggling vs low ranked BM pirates, Zoro's staring her in the face right now. Say it with me: ALL HAIL LORD ZORO!!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kroczilla (Jan 2, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> Stopped reading at this. Sanji fans comparing a small jail door to keep KIDS


Kids who were being experimented on to be turned into giants, you know, the strongest race on the world, the race with which big mom was certain she could solo the other yonko.

Already seen the rest of your posts before so couldn't be bothered to respond to it. That said, I imagine even the most ardent zoro fans here must be embarrassed by your antics.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 2, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> That would be "PIS" or simply a higher grade of steel similar to the one that stopped WB.
> 
> I don't understand how this is complicated.



So the things you have no explanation for is NFL.



Kroczilla said:


> Now you are just straight up making shit up. The concept of haki coating wasn't introduced until well after Ennies Lobby. Before that, what was said was that zoro could cut steel, something he did repeatedly after alabasta including slicing a steel train cabin in half but he couldn't cut through tekkai as easily.




*Spoiler*: __ 









Only his iai moves were portrayed to slice through steel at that point.


*Spoiler*: __ 









Tatsumaki couldn't albeit overpowering Kaku's zoan form and he escaped it by geppou.



Kroczilla said:


> The burdens on you to prove that for some reason, zoro wasn't "trying to cut steel" against an opponent he knew couldn't literally replicate the hardness of steel.



Already posted the screens above, you better find another excuse.



Kroczilla said:


> Most of this is pure head canon tbh. Yes there are different grades of steel, but there's no proof dad's steel in alabasta was anymore durable than regular old steel.



It makes the most sense to compare it with the growth of the characters, it's not even inconsistent that way. But you do you i guess.



Kroczilla said:


> Heck it wouldn't even make sense that zoro went from being completely unable to cut steel to literally jumping tiers as you are suggesting.



What tiers?



Kroczilla said:


> He is more durable which is one of the reasons why he would destroy daz. Daz nothing more than a stepping stone to what tekkai was.



How? If he would be more durable Kaku wouldn't be cut by Shi shi son son, but he decided not to get hit by it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Daz Bones steel body could be way harder


Luffy has more in his arsenal than the moves which brought down Krieg, and again, its totally up to you if you believe that Daz's steel is on a completely different level to anything Luffy's base strength broke preskip. 

I know you don't really bend to logic or rational evidence; this isn't our first disagreement. In this very thread you indicated that Zoro moving to cut off his legs instead of cutting away Mr 3s wax isnt actually evidence that Zoro couldn't cut the wax.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Only his iai moves were portrayed to slice through steel at that point.


Didn't he slice parts of the sea train clean in Water 7 using _*nitoryu*_? He also broke T-Bone's sword with santoryu. I thought a diehard Zoro fan would know this 



TheWiggian said:


> Yea he used G3 for that door at EL, he didn't have that during Alabasta and that super armor isn't mentioned to have some special sort of durability, also considering this was way post Alabasta with skypia in between it's not even an argument here.


You're moving the goalpost, I was responding to your point about post-ts Luffy having trouble with steel according to you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kroczilla (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> So the things you have no explanation for is NFL



Yep. At this point I can only conclude you are deliberately trying NOT to get it.



TheWiggian said:


> Only his iai moves were portrayed to slice through steel at that point.
> 
> *Spoiler*:
> 
> ...



Yep, this is some head canon right there. Zoro after beating daz could slice steel. Per daz's own statement, he transcended himself and even went on to develop ranged attacks. Nothing about "only iai moves".



TheWiggian said:


> Already posted the screens above, you better find another excuse.



Yeah, all I saw was head canon.




TheWiggian said:


> It makes the most sense to compare it with the growth of the characters, it's not even inconsistent that way. But you do you i guess.



Except it isn't growth of character but rather of their power level. Heck even from a thematic stand point, it makes no sense. The point of zoro Vs daz was to see him get over the barrier of cutting steel. Yet you are somehow suggesting zoro went beyond that, without any proof I might add.



TheWiggian said:


> What tiers?


The one you literally posted



TheWiggian said:


> Krieg armor < Kiribachi < potentially Galdino's wax < Daz Bones steel armor < EL steel door < Pacifista < steel squad shields < PH steel door




Try and keep up.




TheWiggian said:


> How? If he would be more durable Kaku wouldn't be cut by Shi shi son son, but he decided not to get hit by it.




Again deliberately missing the point. Ennies Lobby zoro is so far above Arabasta zoro, it's not even funny. The fact that even his basic moved couldn't cut straight up cut tekkai already puts Kali vastly above daz in durability.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 2, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Luffy has more in his arsenal than the moves which brought down Krieg, and again, its totally up to you if you believe that Daz's steel is on a completely different level to anything Luffy's base strength broke preskip.
> 
> I know you don't really bend to logic or rational evidence; this isn't our first disagreement. In this very thread you indicated that Zoro moving to cut off his legs instead of cutting away Mr 3s wax isnt actually evidence that Zoro couldn't cut the wax.



Would be hard for you to prove. If you have on panel evidence then please post when Zoro tried to cut the wax. Other than that you just keep attacking a strawman.



Vivo Diez said:


> Didn't he slice parts of the sea train clean in Water 7 using _*nitoryu*_? He also broke T-Bone's sword with santoryu. I thought a diehard Zoro fan would know this



You do know that the move he used is an iai sheat attack aswell? No? Then go reread it again i guess.



Vivo Diez said:


> You're moving the goalpost, I was responding to your point about post-ts Luffy having trouble with steel according to you.



So you agree that the steel gets portrayed tougher as the story goes on or not? If not i guess we can stop right here.



Kroczilla said:


> Yep. At this point I can only conclude you are deliberately trying NOT to get it.



Well i have panel evidence, you got assumptions. Guess iam the one that is wrong.



Kroczilla said:


> Yep, this is some head canon right there. Zoro after beating daz could slice steel. Per daz's own statement, he transcended himself and even went on to develop ranged attacks. Nothing about "only iai moves".



How is it headcanon, the panels i gave you are from the same fight lol. 1 attack can't pierce through the tekkai while Kaku rather doesn't tank the attack that is shown to cut through steel.



Kroczilla said:


> Yeah, all I saw was head canon.



Just concede if you have no argument.



Kroczilla said:


> Except it isn't growth of character but rather of their power level. Heck even from a thematic stand point, it makes no sense. The point of zoro Vs daz was to see him get over the barrier of cutting steel. Yet you are somehow suggesting zoro went beyond that, without any proof I might add.



What when? Zoro goes from cutting steel to cutting harder steel and even cutting a pacifista later on that is said to be harder than steel ^



Kroczilla said:


> Try and keep up.



Try to actaully present an argument that makes sense first then i might consider trying.



Kroczilla said:


> Again deliberately missing the point. Ennies Lobby zoro is so far above Arabasta zoro, it's not even funny. The fact that even his basic moved couldn't cut straight up cut tekkai already puts Kali vastly above daz in durability.



Nothing suggests EL Zoro basic moveset can cut Daz considering a slash from Mihawk didn't that was aimed at Luffy. He needs a sheat attack aka breath of all things aka haki to cut Daz Bones.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You do know that the move he used is an iai sheat attack aswell? No? Then go reread it again i guess.


Oh sheath. What does have to do with anything? The attack he used to shatter T-Bone's sword wasn't a sheath attack. You're desperately trying to establish correlations between disparate pieces of information to fit your flailing argument.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Jan 2, 2021)

Zoro fans living in denial thinking Luffy can't beat Mr 1

Reactions: Agree 5 | Disagree 1


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## muchentuchen (Jan 2, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Kids who were being experimented on to be turned into giants, you know, the strongest race on the world, the race with which big mom was certain she could solo the other yonko.
> 
> Already seen the rest of your posts before so couldn't be bothered to respond to it. That said, I imagine even the most ardent zoro fans here must be embarrassed by your antics.


Still kids worth nothing and Big mom thinks a lot, that doesn't mean it's right. If anything the manga has shown to think opposite of her = right. 

I know facts are hard to deal with and cannot be responded to, it's okay I get it. I even bet one of the Germa 66 left a raid suit in that slammer for Sanji to wear and he still failed to break through a steel gate. Btw, this is simply applying enough force to get the bolts or whatever lock to burst open, this is so much easier than the grandmaster, lord Zoro the great actually CUTTING it in half. But the latter succeeded with ease and the former wasn't even close. Did you forget how Vergo broke Sanji's leg?


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## Mob (Jan 2, 2021)

In orange town luffy was trapped in cage which Zoro by his own admission couldn't cut but Richie a lion from buggy's crew crushed it when he attacked Luffy. Richie is more durable than a cage since he broke it and didn't suffer any damage because of it yet Luffy punched that beast to sleep, Luffy  got stronger since then and there was never an instance from this point of story to Alabasta where Zoro proved to be Luffy's superior by feats or statements, so if Zoro can do something in this case hurt daz so can Luffy and if Zoro cant do something like for example breaking through a thick layer of bedrock and shake whole city block as a side effect doesn't mean Luffy cant.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## TheWiggian (Jan 2, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Oh sheath. What does have to do with anything? The attack he used to shatter T-Bone's sword wasn't a sheath attack. You're desperately trying to establish correlations between disparate pieces of information to fit your flailing argument.



So you starting to argue about quality and mass of iron here, guess you agree that they vary heavily i guess.

1. T-Bone's sword is nothing special therefore easily below Zoro's 2 skillful grades and a great grade blade this alone surpasses the quality and durability of T-Bones sword.

2. A few cm thick blade doesn't stand a chance in comparison to a massive body of steel unless it's a high quality crafted meito and/or infused with haki.


Iai sheat techniques been portrayed to cut hard substances by Zoro especially pre TS. If you don't agree with that portrayal

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> So you starting to argue about quality and mass of iron here, guess you agree that they vary heavily i guess.
> 
> 1. T-Bone's sword is nothing special therefore easily below Zoro's 2 skillful grades and a great grade blade this alone surpasses the quality and durability of T-Bones sword.
> 
> ...


You're moving the goalpost again. You said "Zoro has only used sheath techniques to cut steel", I gave you an example of shattering T-Bones sword with a non sheath technique. I assume you concede on that point, so let's move on.

We don't know what quality T-Bone's sword was. It's named and T-Bone wasn't a fodder captain. And it's a long sword so obviously it'll be thicker in mass than Zoro's katana. The quality argument is irrelevant regardless, how would you even apply it relative to Mr 1? What quality is his steel and what's the craftsmanship of it?

We know that Alabasta Zoro is able to cut it. We know that Luffy is able to destroy Krieg's thick wootz steel armor all the way back in Baratie, when Zoro was still just daydreaming about cutting steel. Luffy has always been ahead in terms of what's able to punch through and mend. Even in Enies Lobby Zoro was struggling to get past Kaku's tekkai, while Luffy was dealing damage to Lucci , an opponent with almost twice the physical strength and mastery of all rokushiki techniques, including tekkai.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Kroczilla (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Well i have panel evidence, you got assumptions. Guess iam the one that is wrong.



Yep, those panel evidences from "Two Piece" sure showed me



TheWiggian said:


> How is it headcanon, the panels i gave you are from the same fight lol. 1 attack can't pierce through the tekkai while Kaku rather doesn't tank



At this point, you seem to have lost the plot. Zoro post arabasta can cut steel. End of discussion. *Nothing in the story suggests that he could only do it with one specific attack* as you seem to suggest. 



TheWiggian said:


> Just concede if you have no argument.


Rich coming from you.




TheWiggian said:


> What when? Zoro goes from cutting steel to cutting harder steel and even cutting a pacifista later on that is said to be harder than steel



You are the one who tried to infer that daz is more durable than regular steel shown in east blue which zoro couldn't cut. You are the one suggesting that zoro jumped from being unable to cut steel to being able to cut someone tougher than said steel.

If you are gonna be irrational the least you could do is keep up with your own argument.



TheWiggian said:


> Try to actaully present an argument that makes sense first then i might consider trying.



Pot to Kettle


TheWiggian said:


> Nothing suggests EL Zoro basic moveset can cut Daz considering a slash from Mihawk didn't that was aimed at Luffy. He needs a sheat attack aka breath of all things aka haki to cut Daz Bones.



Lol this broda really bringing up the truckload of PIS known as Marineford?

Said Mihawk's slashes were being stalemate by crocodile's hook. Said Mihawk's slashes aimed at Luffy split apart island sized iceberg. But you somehow think daz not getting obliterated isn't a mountain of PIS (not minding the fact that Luffy could crush steel since east blue with relative ease)

Any person seriously bringing daz tanking a shot from Mihawk as an argument doesn't deserve to be taken seriously tbh.

So I guess we are done.


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## Kroczilla (Jan 2, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> You're moving the goalpost again. You said "Zoro has only used sheath techniques to cut steel", I gave you an example of shattering T-Bones sword with a non sheath technique. I assume you concede on that point, so let's move on.
> 
> We don't know what quality T-Bone's sword was. It's named and T-Bone wasn't a fodder captain. And it's a long sword so obviously it'll be thicker in mass than Zoro's katana. The quality argument is irrelevant regardless, how would you even apply it relative to Mr 1? What quality is his steel and what's the craftsmanship of it?
> 
> We know that Alabasta Zoro is able to cut it. We know that Luffy is able to destroy Krieg's thick wootz steel armor all the way back in Baratie, when Zoro was still just daydreaming about cutting steel. Luffy has always been ahead in terms of what's able to punch through and mend. Even in Enies Lobby Zoro was struggling to get past Kaku's tekkai, while Luffy was dealing damage to Lucci , an opponent with almost twice the physical strength and mastery of all rokushiki techniques, including tekkai.


The dude's writing his own lore at this point.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 2, 2021)

Added a poll.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Jan 2, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> You're moving the goalpost again. You said "Zoro has only used sheath techniques to cut steel", I gave you an example of shattering T-Bones sword with a non sheath technique. I assume you concede on that point, so let's move on.




*Spoiler*: __ 











It's if the quality of a blade truly plays a role doesn't it? 2 trash swords gets shattered while a great grade remains intact. But ofc it's just me moving the goalpost instead of showing you the exact scenario of what happened between Zoro and T-Bone and Zoro and Mihawk.




Vivo Diez said:


> We don't know what quality T-Bone's sword was. It's named and T-Bone wasn't a fodder captain. And it's a long sword so obviously it'll be thicker in mass than Zoro's katana. The quality argument is irrelevant regardless, how would you even apply it relative to Mr 1? What quality is his steel and what's the craftsmanship of it?



We know it's bad quality because it got destroyed by a move that was not even portrayed to cut through a massively hard object. If it had a name or would've been a meito it would've been either listed or mentioned somewhere. Considering the characters done for and really has no relevance i wouldn't put much hope into receiving anymore information on this guys blade that was repaired by the time of MF lol.



Vivo Diez said:


> We know that Alabasta Zoro is able to cut it. We know that Luffy is able to destroy Krieg's thick wootz steel armor all the way back in Baratie, when Zoro was still just daydreaming about cutting steel. Luffy has always been ahead in terms of what's able to punch through and mend. Even in Enies Lobby Zoro was struggling to get past Kaku's tekkai, while Luffy was dealing damage to Lucci , an opponent with almost twice the physical strength and mastery of all rokushiki techniques, including tekkai.



Outright lies. Zoro had no trouble to get past Kaku's tekkai but rather that Kaku didn't even want to risk to get hit by a technique that been shown to bypass steel durability:


*Spoiler*: __ 











I wonder why he didn't want to tekkai that shit.
Also that fight is great because it shits on your fanfiction that Zoro can willy-nilly cut steel whenever he wants:


*Spoiler*: __ 









Up to this day steel is portrayed as super hard material that Sanji for example still cannot bypass.



Kroczilla said:


> Yep, those panel evidences from "Two Piece" sure showed me



Guess you're conceding.



Kroczilla said:


> At this point, you seem to have lost the plot. Zoro post arabasta can cut steel. End of discussion. *Nothing in the story suggests that he could only do it with one specific attack* as you seem to suggest.



Nothing except that he uses said sheat moves to cut the hardest objects he faces:


*Spoiler*: __ 

















Kroczilla said:


> You are the one who tried to infer that daz is more durable than regular steel shown in east blue which zoro couldn't cut. You are the one suggesting that zoro jumped from being unable to cut steel to being able to cut someone tougher than said steel.
> 
> If you are gonna be irrational the least you could do is keep up with your own argument.



Iam not trying to elevate Zoro here, but rather give some respect to Daz Bones who apparently can be destroyed by every character and their mom pre ts. Dude was not affected by a kick from someone who scaled to AB Sanji and was only twice harmed in the paradise, both by characters that can utilize haki. Mihawk and Zoro (who had the breath of steel explained as haki retrospectively).



Kroczilla said:


> Lol this broda really bringing up the truckload of PIS known as Marineford?
> 
> Said Mihawk's slashes were being stalemate by crocodile's hook. Said Mihawk's slashes aimed at Luffy split apart island sized iceberg. But you somehow think daz not getting obliterated isn't a mountain of PIS (not minding the fact that Luffy could crush steel since east blue with relative ease)
> 
> ...



Good, then stay out of this if you have nothing to say and everything that destroys your narrative is labelled as NLF by you.



Kroczilla said:


> The dude's writing his own lore at this point.



Cute how you vouch for help from a fellow, salty Sanji fan in a desperate attempt to shit on Daz Bones, so Zoro looks worse.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## muchentuchen (Jan 2, 2021)

You can flip it, turn it, twist it and even hide it, Luffy loses to Mr.1 no matter what asspull you add. Every attack from Luffy would have been met with a blade facing it so the stronger the attack Luffy launches, the more severe his injury. To say it again: That's why Oda separated them 400 chapters away and even then flipped the script, they were temporary allies! Luffy needs CoA to stand a chance and that's in the post TS.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 2, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> Every attack from Luffy would have been met with a blade facing it


No? We've never seen Mr 1 make blades on his torso and he never showed skill that would indicate he could counter every punch from Luffy with a bladed limb defense.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Jan 2, 2021)

There's no way Mr 1's body is harder than that city block Luffy destroyed

Reactions: Like 1


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## zoro (Jan 2, 2021)

Luffy gets diced, it's a bad matchup. It's not just about punching steel it's about punching sharp blades over and over. By the time Daz starts getting hurt Luffy will have spaghetti for arms

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 2, 2021)

There's a big difference in punching a steel wall and punching a blade. I'm sure if you had to, most people could punch a steel wall 10 times as hard as they could. But switch it to punching a large and sharpe blade. How many people really could punch that 10 times in a row, without thier punching strength decreasing dramatically? And don't try to act like Luffy's just way out of his leauge. During Alabasta, the gap between Luffy and Zoro was very small.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 2, 2021)

Gyro said:


> it's about punching sharp blades over and over.





ClannadFan said:


> There's a big difference in punching a steel wall and punching a blade.


Really though, that's an odd argument.....Daz never made blades on his torso or face; he only did so with his extremities. Sure, Luffy will get cut, but Daz isn't blocking every blow from Luffy with blades. 
Luffy is extremely agile and dextrous and will be able to land hits that Daz isnt blocking.

Side note: the gap between Luffy and Zoro in Alabasta did not seem to be small.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 2, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Really though, that's an odd argument.....Daz never made blades on his torso or face; he only did so with his extremities. Sure, Luffy will get cut, but Daz isn't blocking every blow from Luffy with blades.
> Luffy is extremely agile and dextrous and will be able to land hits that Daz isnt blocking.
> 
> Side note: the gap between Luffy and Zoro in Alabasta did not seem to be small.


I just watched the fight again, and every time he blocked, he blocked with blades. Unless you're suggesting that after it being clear that Luffy hitting him in the head or stomach was the easiest way to beat him, Mr.1 would still just decide not to protect his head or stomach??? 

Also, after rewatching the fight, Zoro should of lost that fight multiple times, before he even had the oppertunity to deal the finishing blow, if there was no plot armor. Unless you really think Alabasta Luffy vs Alabasta Zoro would of been that one sided as well, then I see no reason why Mr.1 wouldn't beat Luffy, without plot armor.


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## ClannadFan (Jan 2, 2021)

One more thing, if the gap between Luffy and Zoro was already noticeable by Alabasta, then by the time Luffy got gears he should be One shotting Zoro. Which we all know isn't happening.


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## Kingslayer (Jan 2, 2021)

Daz bones would lose to luffy it would  be mid diff fight for him.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 2, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I just watched the fight again, and every time he blocked, he blocked with blades. Unless you're suggesting that after it being clear that Luffy hitting him in the head or stomach was the easiest way to beat him, Mr.1 would still just decide not to protect his head or stomach???
> 
> Also, after rewatching the fight, Zoro should of lost that fight multiple times, before he even had the oppertunity to deal the finishing blow, if there was no plot armor. Unless you really think Alabasta Luffy vs Alabasta Zoro would of been that one sided as well, then I see no reason why Mr.1 wouldn't beat Luffy, without plot armor.


What I'm saying is that Daz isn't blocking every hit from Luffy. He never showed that level of skill; Mr 2 kicked him in the chest and Zoro landed tons of clean hits on him.
Luffy is a ridiculously creative fighter who will use sneak attacks, grappling, throws, the environment, or whatever else it takes to land a hit or open his opponent up to clear hits.

Yes, we've seen him just use the "fuck it" method and punch blades directly:

*Spoiler*: __ 







More often he blocks or avoids blades and uses his wits and agility to land hits:

We also know he won't continue with his strike if knows it's too dangerous:


We've seen Luffy block blades with his damn sandals. Really, Luffy is just a better fighter than Daz.


ClannadFan said:


> One more thing, if the gap between Luffy and Zoro was already noticeable by Alabasta, then by the time Luffy got gears he should be One shotting Zoro. Which we all know isn't happening.


.......Why would it be a one shot?
Just look at the feats man.....did you not see Luffy punching Crocodile through 50 feet of bedrock while infected by a stone melting paralysis poison?

*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kroczilla (Jan 2, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Guess you're conceding


>Thinks me pointing out head canon = a concession.

Lols




TheWiggian said:


> Nothing except that he uses said sheat moves to cut the hardest objects he faces:


Oda: zoro can cut steel

Daz: zoro has transcended himself

Random fan boy: hE nEeDS To UsE ShEAt MovES

Well good sir, when you provide me with explicit proof of your little fan lore, I will give it some thought.




TheWiggian said:


> Iam not trying to elevate Zoro here, but rather give some respect to Daz Bones who apparently can be destroyed by every character and their mom pre ts.


Daz can be destroyed by every character who can cut steel. The fact there happened to be a ton of them presume skip and the fact that a ton of them are also far more skilled is really a YOU problem





TheWiggian said:


> Dude was not affected by a kick from someone who scaled to AB Sanji and was only twice harmed in the paradise, both by characters that can utilize haki. Mihawk and Zoro (who had the breath of steel explained as haki retrospectively).


Tanking a casual kick from Mr. 2 is impressive though it should be pointed out that Mr. 2 never really stood a chance against sanji but for his DF and steel tipped swan boots.

As for the rest, as I have explained over and over, loads of people much more durable than daz got destroyed without any hint of haki being involved.




TheWiggian said:


> Good, then stay out of this if you have nothing to say and everything that destroys your narrative is labelled as NLF by you.


You: daz has only ever been harmed by haki blades
Me;  people even more durable than him were hurt with zero haki involved
You: *mindlessly screeches about NLF*






TheWiggian said:


> Cute how you vouch for help from a fellow, salty Sanji fan in a desperate attempt to shit on Daz Bones, so Zoro looks worse.


Cute that you think I will take this poorly made bait.




Gyro said:


> Luffy gets diced, it's a bad matchup. It's not just about punching steel it's about punching sharp blades over and over. By the time Daz starts getting hurt Luffy will have spaghetti for arms



Wtf. Luffy was getting hit by solid sand blades from crocodile who >>> daz and at one point, literally punch through said blades head on.

Not to mention as others have said, daz's entire body isn't blade.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 2, 2021)

Plot Luffy would win. 

No plot luffy would lose.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 3, 2021)

On a more serious note.

Thinking luffy can mid diff Mr.1 is pure fan fiction.

Zoro needed Plot shield and a Plot Power up to Extreme diff win vs Mr.1. So how does that work exactly do people think Alabasta Luffy can Mid diff Zoro am I missing something here?

Luffy is a worse match up for Mr.1 then Zoro was. All of Luffys big moves take a shit ton of wind up. If Luffy wants to beat Mr.1 he's gonna need to hit him with multiple bazookas and or Axe attacks which again take big wind ups and will be quite easy for mr1 to defend agasint.

People bring up his feat agasint croc like that was just one punch. Gomu Gomu Storm/Gatling is literally the worst possible attack luffy can use agasint Mr.1. So yea sure go right ahead and smash your fists agasint blades in quick succession. 

Luffy can beat Mr.1 buts its gonna be a extreme diff win if he does. This mid diff BS I have seen some of you state is borderline trolling.

Edit: Also worth mentioning it only took 3 hits from Mr.1 to put Zoro on his ass and make him drop all his swords. Mr.1s attack power is extremely high. Adding on the damage Luffy will be doing to himself Mr.1 only needs a couple direct hits to win this fight. Are you guys that confident Luffy can avoid getting combo sliced by Mr.1 the entire fight, im not so sure he can.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Kroczilla (Jan 3, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> On a more serious note.
> 
> Thinking luffy can mid diff Mr.1 is pure fan fiction.
> 
> ...


There are several differences between Luffy and zoro but perhaps the biggest and most relevant to this fight is that Luffy has a solid track record of crushing or straight up smashing through steel whereas zoro ... doesn't.
Ergo Luffy isn't going to need to spend roughly 99% of the fight trying to actually hurt daz successfully like zoro did.

But there's more.

Luffy is straight up the more agile fighter and unlike zoro, has more options at his disposal than just hitting his opponent as hard as he can.

Also as others have pointed out and Luffy showed in fighting crocodile, punching through steel/steel like blades head on and destroying them is something that's not beyond him. So yes, once Luffy gets started with a Gatling gun, Daz is toast.

Lastly, smashing through over 50 fts of bedrock and wrecking a city block >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daz's best feats and at that point Luffy was dying from poisoning.

Tldr; Daz gets mid diffed.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 3, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> There are several differences between Luffy and zoro but perhaps the biggest and most relevant to this fight is that Luffy has a solid track record of crushing or straight up smashing through steel whereas zoro ... doesn't.
> Ergo Luffy isn't going to need to spend roughly 99% of the fight trying to actually hurt daz successfully like zoro did.
> 
> But there's more.
> ...



Yes Luffy can hurt Mr.1 but the trade off is he is exposing his body to do so. Unlike Zoro who could safely trade with Mr.1 in CQC with his blades. Something luffy can't do without risking massive injuries.

What options? Luffys options are punching or kicking Mr.1. If he wants to do any note worthy damage he will need to hit him with either a bazooka or Axe both of which leave him wide open for a counter attack or ramming his fist/foot into one of mr.1s blades.

Not sure why your comparing luffy punching through sand vs smashing his fists agasint a steel blade that zoro couldent cut without a power up.

If luffy uses a gatling vs Mr.1 he dies period as far as im concerned. Best case scenario he pushes through the pain and blood lose and dies after knocking him out. Still a retarded plan of action that I personally doubt luffy would even try as he has better options.

You are severely underrating mr.1 here or perhaps we have different definitions of mid diff.

Mid diff is Luffy vs Chinjao, or Zoro vs Pica. A fight where the winner takes little damage and has to exert themselves a little and is perhaps tired but is otherwise in perfectly good fighting condition. No way in hell Luffy beats someone he has a bad match up against when Zoro barley beat(with a powerup) half dead extreme diff.

Doesn't work like that unless you think Alabasta Luffy can kick alabasta Zoros ass or something which if you think that then fair enough I suppose, but that would be like saying Zoro mid diffs Mr.2 but worse as Sanji beat Mr.2 with arguably high diff and Sanji didnt need a power up to do it on top of the fact that mr.2 was no where near the bad match up mr.1 was for zoro. Even then I would disagree with the notion of Zoro beating mr.2 with less then high diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kingslayer (Jan 3, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Plot Luffy would win.
> 
> No plot luffy would lose.


Have you read pre time skip at all ?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## MrPopo (Jan 3, 2021)

Luffy would have no problem hurting Mr2, another w for the strawhat

Reactions: Like 1 | GODA 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 3, 2021)

Dark Shadow said:


> Have you read pre time skip at all ?



Yes I read pre time skip in which every major fight Croc, Enel, Lucci, Moria

Required Luffy to get Plot Shield from Oda in order to win.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Mob (Jan 3, 2021)

he also did this

Reactions: Like 3


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## ClannadFan (Jan 3, 2021)

Are people seriously trying to argue that Luffy's bite strength and grip are stronger than Zoro's strongest attacks Pre Mr1 fight?

Reactions: Winner 2


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## ClannadFan (Jan 3, 2021)

Also, even if you really believe Luffy Mid diffs Zoro during Alabasta, Mr 1 should of mid diffed Zoro too, if it wasnt for plot armor. So at the minimum, given that Mr 1 is a worse match up for Luffy than he was for Zoro, Luffy is winning high high diff(I'd say extreme but maybe you don't think Mr1 would mid diff Zoro, although it was clearly shown that he had multiple chances to win the fight, before he ever took any real damage), and thats a stretch that only makes sense for the Luffy wankers who believe he mid diffs Zoro.


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## MrPopo (Jan 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Also, even if you really believe Luffy Mid diffs Zoro during Alabasta, Mr 1 should of mid diffed Zoro too, if it wasnt for plot armor. So at the minimum, given that Mr 1 is a worse match up for Luffy than he was for Zoro, Luffy is winning high high diff(I'd say extreme but maybe you don't think Mr1 would mid diff Zoro, although it was clearly shown that he had multiple chances to win the fight, before he ever took any real damage), and thats a stretch that only makes sense for the Luffy wankers who believe he mid diffs Zoro.


How is Mr 1 a worse match up for Luffy than Zoro, Zoro couldn't hurt him until he learnt how to cut steal

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Jan 3, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yes Luffy can hurt Mr.1 but the trade off is he is exposing his body to do so. Unlike Zoro who could safely trade with Mr.1 in CQC with his blades. Something luffy can't do without risking massive injuries.


I think you are severely underestimating Luffy's cqc skills. Then again, maybe you might not quite remember which is fair given arabasta was a long as time ago, but here...

*Spoiler*: __ 













Luffy is a pretty incredibly agile fighter. Not that I am saying Luffy is more skilled that zoro or Mr. 1 coz they all have radically different fighting styles. Just that Luffy's style of fighting in combination with his DF and battle smarts makes him difficult to even tag even for a vastly more experience and powerful combatant like crocodile.

He is gonna be landing hits on Mr. 1 all-day and eventually soften him up enough for the big one as he always does.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yes Luffy can hurt Mr.1 but the trade off is he is exposing his body to do so. Unlike Zoro who could safely trade with Mr.1 in CQC with his blades. Something luffy can't do without risking massive injuries.
> 
> What options? Luffys options are punching or kicking Mr.1. If he wants to do any note worthy damage he will need to hit him with either a bazooka or Axe both of which leave him wide open for a counter attack or ramming his fist/foot into one of mr.1s blades.



See above.

Luffy based on his feats of crushing steel and bending Arlong's steel like nose with his grip doesn't need his big moves to hurt daz. He would need them to put daz down for good, which is why just like with crocodile and lucci, he will stick to quick moves and landing hits right until an opening for the big finisher.




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Not sure why your comparing luffy punching through sand vs smashing his fists agasint a steel blade that zoro couldent cut without a power up.



Probably coz said sand had insane cutting power. Case in point



Zoro couldn't cut steel hence he needed to transcend himself as daz stated. Luffy doesn't appear to have any trouble just smashing it.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If luffy uses a gatling vs Mr.1 he dies period as far as im concerned. Best case scenario he pushes through the pain and blood lose and dies after knocking him out. Still a retarded plan of action that I personally doubt luffy would even try as he has better options.


Luffy isn't a careless fighter. He would only use Gatling gun or Storm when he has a clear shot.




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Doesn't work like that unless you think Alabasta Luffy can kick alabasta Zoros ass or something which if you think that then fair enough I suppose, but that would be like saying Zoro mid diffs Mr.2 but worse as Sanji beat Mr.2 with arguably high diff and Sanji didnt need a power up to do it on top of the fact that mr.2 was no where near the bad match up mr.1 was for zoro. Even then I would disagree with the notion of Zoro beating mr.2 with less then high diff.




I think based on feats, the gap between arabasta Luffy and the rest of the crew was massive and it wasn't until water 7/Ennies Lobby when zoro & sanji finally caught up somewhat.

I think zoro mid diffs Mr. 2 and honestly but for sanji's weakness for women, he probably could have done the same.

I also don't think sanji could beat Mr. 1 as zoro literally went to the next lvl to beat him.

I do agree though that Mr. 1 might give Luffy high diff though the lower end of that difficulty I think.


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## zoro (Jan 3, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Really though, that's an odd argument.....Daz never made blades on his torso or face; he only did so with his extremities. Sure, Luffy will get cut, but Daz isn't blocking every blow from Luffy with blades.
> Luffy is extremely agile and dextrous and will be able to land hits that Daz isnt blocking.
> 
> Side note: the gap between Luffy and Zoro in Alabasta did not seem to be small.





Kroczilla said:


> >Thinks me pointing out head canon = a concession.
> 
> Lols
> 
> ...


"The *Supa Supa no Mi* is a -type  that enables the user's body to gain characteristics of a steel blade to attack opponents with, making the user a *Fullbody Bladed Human* (全身刃物人間, _Zenshin Hamono Ningen_)."

Just because he didn't show head or torso blades doesn't mean he can't make them, it's literally the whole shtick of his Devil Fruit. He's not a steel man he's a blade man


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## Kroczilla (Jan 3, 2021)

Gyro said:


> "The *Supa Supa no Mi* is a -type  that enables the user's body to gain characteristics of a steel blade to attack opponents with, making the user a *Fullbody Bladed Human* (全身刃物人間, _Zenshin Hamono Ningen_)."
> 
> Just because he didn't show head or torso blades doesn't mean he can't make them, it's literally the whole shtick of his Devil Fruit. He's not a steel man he's a blade man


Well when he actually shows he can make those, I will gladly concede. Till then.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 3, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> People bring up his feat agasint croc like that was just one punch. Gomu Gomu Storm/Gatling is literally the worst possible attack luffy can use agasint Mr.1. So yea sure go right ahead and smash your fists agasint blades in quick succession.


No one expects that Luffy would be punching Daz's bladed arms. He would obviously need to open him up to attack.
That's like saying storm was a horrible attack to use against Crocodile because more punches means more chances for Crocodile to catch and drain or slice his fingers off. Luffy's not an idiot....when fighting.



> Are you guys that confident Luffy can avoid getting combo sliced by Mr.1 the entire fight, im not so sure he can.


I havent seen anyone claim that Luffy would avoid getting sliced. He'll walk it off when he does though. Even Zoro admitted his wounds from Daz were shallow and he was able to continue on fighting afterwards. 


ClannadFan said:


> Also, even if you really believe Luffy Mid diffs Zoro during Alabasta, Mr 1 should of mid diffed Zoro too, if it wasnt for plot armor. So at the minimum, given that Mr 1 is a worse match up for Luffy than he was for Zoro, Luffy is winning high high diff(I'd say extreme but maybe you don't think Mr1 would mid diff Zoro, although it was clearly shown that he had multiple chances to win the fight, before he ever took any real damage), and thats a stretch that only makes sense for the Luffy wankers who believe he mid diffs Zoro.


Zoro is a better fighter than Daz, that should be clear. Both times we seem him fight, Mr 2 and Zoro both immediately get the better of him and land clean hits. Look at the number of times Zoro hit this dude clean in the face and neck just using straightforward swordplay and without any of Luffy's strategy or dexterity:

*Spoiler*: __ 










Daz is only in the game because of his steel defense.



Gyro said:


> Just because he didn't show head or torso blades doesn't mean he can't make them, it's literally the whole shtick of his Devil Fruit. He's not a steel man he's a blade man


He never showed such an ability so we're not going to assume that he has it 'just because.' Assume he has not mastered his fruit but he never formed such a guard.


Kroczilla said:


> Well when he actually shows he can make those, I will gladly concede. Till then.


Well it's too late for that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## muchentuchen (Jan 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Are people seriously trying to argue that Luffy's bite strength and grip are stronger than Zoro's strongest attacks Pre Mr1 fight?


No, as you notice, it's Sanji's troll farm in North Korea downplaying Zoro in every Zoro thread. There are more Sanji fans on Zoro threads than Sanji threads. 

Mr.1 > Luffy without COA, all day everyday. And Donquixote Doflamingo nailed it.


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## Kroczilla (Jan 3, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> Mr.1 > Luffy without COA, all day everyday.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Lewd 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 3, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> I think you are severely underestimating Luffy's cqc skills. Then again, maybe you might not quite remember which is fair given arabasta was a long as time ago, but here...
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



As long as we agree that Mr.1 doesn't lose to Luffy mid diff then we good. 

Although I do find it interesting you think there is a big gap between Luffy and Zoro/Sanji in alabasta but not EL. 

Personally I think that's where the biggest gap existed at least Pre Time Skip anyway. I think EL luffy would mid diff Sanji and High Diff Zoro.


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## ClannadFan (Jan 3, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Zoro is a better fighter than Daz, that should be clear. Both times we seem him fight, Mr 2 and Zoro both immediately get the better of him and land clean hits. Look at the number of times Zoro hit this dude clean in the face and neck just using straightforward swordplay and without any of Luffy's strategy


Have you ever considered that Daz took those hits because they did 0 damage to him? When he's actually trying to hurt Zoro he fucks him up everytime.


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## Kroczilla (Jan 3, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Although I do find it interesting you think there is a big gap between Luffy and Zoro/Sanji in alabasta but not EL.


In EL, a gap existed given that Lucci was on his own lvl. But I do think that if zoro/sanji fought Lucci all out from the beginning (i.e. DJ/Ashura Path), they could at the very least give him a very high diff if not extreme diff fight.  In that sense, they were at the time close to Luffy.

As Mr Morj rightly pointed out, they both "bluenoed" their opponents the moment they used their power ups.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Have you ever considered that Daz took those hits because they did 0 damage to him? When he's actually trying to hurt Zoro he fucks him up everytime.


Does it look like he is enjoying those hits or taking them on purpose? Honestly?

*Spoiler*: __ 











Kroczilla said:


> In EL, a gap existed given that Lucci was on his own lvl. But I do think that if zoro/sanji fought Lucci all out from the beginning (i.e. DJ/Ashura Path), they could at the very least give him a very high diff if not extreme diff fight.  In that sense, they were at the time close to Luffy.
> 
> As Mr Morj rightly pointed out, they both "bluenoed" their opponents the moment they used their power ups.


Ehhhhhhh, Luffy almost one shot Lucci as well with his power move. The thing that, in my opinion, really increased the gap was gear 2nd. Zoro and Sanji got power moves like Gear 3rd but not any physical booster that would let them keep up with Luffy.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 3, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> In EL, a gap existed given that Lucci was on his own lvl. But I do think that if zoro/sanji fought Lucci all out from the beginning (i.e. DJ/Ashura Path), they could at the very least give him a very high diff if not extreme diff fight.  In that sense, they were at the time close to Luffy.
> 
> As Mr Morj rightly pointed out, they both "bluenoed" their opponents the moment they used their power ups.



Fair enough

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 3, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Does it look like he is enjoying those hits or taking them on purpose? Honestly?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


Yes, atleast the 1st half of the fight it was clear that he was taking hits to prove a point. 

Also the people arguing for Luffy are just using best case scenarios that would give Luffy the win, like he would dodge 90% of Mr.1s attacks,  even tho Zoro was being overwhealmed by him and literally should of died the second he activated the spinning blades. You guys are just assuming that right away Luffys going to use the best possible strategy, which is OKAY IF you do the same for Mr.1, which you aren't.  How's it fair to make Luffy fight optimally if you aren't making Mr.1 fight optimally? All he has to do us defend with spinning blades activated and its GG.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Yes, atleast the 1st half of the fight it was clear that he was taking hits to prove a point.


Nope, even looking at the first half of the fight, he was clearly caught off guard:

The one time he intentionally takes a hit he uses a named defensive stance:


He didn't just take the hits to the face for lulz. You're being disingenuous.


> Also the people arguing for Luffy are just using best case scenarios that would give Luffy the win, like he would dodge 90% of Mr.1s attacks,  even tho Zoro was being overwhealmed by him and literally should of died the second he activated the spinning blades. You guys are just assuming that right away Luffys going to use the best possible strategy, which is OKAY IF you do the same for Mr.1, which you aren't.  How's it fair to make Luffy fight optimally if you aren't making Mr.1 fight optimally? All he has to do us defend with spinning blades activated and its GG.


What are you talking about? The argument against Luffy was that "Luffy's going to be punching blades every time he lands a hit," so then we posted evidence proving that wouldn't be true based on Luffy and Daz's fighting style and skillset.

How are we downplaying Daz?

The spinning blades aren't putting Luffy down:


Zoro even said the cuts were shallow....

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## Mob (Jan 3, 2021)

lets look at something interesting, Luffy is trapped in cage and he starts chewing the bar

Luffy damages the bar

Nami and Zoro extinguishe canon fuse then Zoro admits he cant cut the cage

moments later Luffy angers Buggy and he breaks the knife with his bite

lion attacks Luffy and he destroys the cage Zoro couldn't cut

then Luffy one shots Lion who is more durable than a cage


Conclusion: Since Luffy  can punch things Zoro cant cut yet since orange town arc and since their PL dynamic never changed because Luffy is always the strongest strawhat he punches daz to oblivion, Odas portrayl not mine

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

I don't know if some of the people arguing here have re-read the Mr 1 vs Zoro fight recently, but Zoro overpowered him and outmaneuvered him more times than Mr 1 managed to do so.





Most of the fatal damage Zoro suffers is from miscalculating how strong the buzzsaw attack is and engaging it casually. Mr 1 even says it:


If he could cut steel prior to the fight, it's arguable if it had even been a high diff fight for Zoro.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ClannadFan (Jan 3, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Nope, even looking at the first half of the fight, he was clearly caught off guard:
> 
> The one time he intentionally takes a hit he uses a named defensive stance:
> 
> ...


The spinning blades are definetly going to fuck him up, Zoro got hit by 1 combo and should of lost then and there, but Mr.1 walked away. People were saying Luffys gonna block his blades with his sandal, but is he tries blocking the spinning blades with that, he's losing his foot.

So if Mr.1 goes on the defensive, blockung with spinning blades, what's the arguement for how Luffy beats him? He's just gonna throw his limbs into the grinder and hope for the best?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> The spinning blades are definetly going to fuck him up, Zoro got hit by 1 combo and should of lost then and there, but Mr.1 walked away.


Luffy is not Zoro


> People were saying Luffys gonna block his blades with his sandal, but is he tries blocking the spinning blades with that, he's losing his foot.


Why would Luffy put his feet on a buzzsaw?


> So if Mr.1 goes on the defensive, blockung with spinning blades, what's the arguement for how Luffy beats him? He's just gonna throw his limbs into the grinder and hope for the best?


I've already made that argument? Luffy is ridiculously agile. When he couldn't get past Kriegs front facing shield, he just jumped over him and kicked him in the neck from behind. He wouldn't use a straightforward attack in that situation or would just hit were Daz cannot see. He'd throw rocks and rubble at Daz to throw him off. He'd find a shield. He used these strategies in previous fights.

What's the argument for Daz winning if he's just standing there holding buzzsaws in front of his face and chest?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Jan 3, 2021)

Mob said:


> then Luffy one shots Lion who is more durable than a cage





Mob said:


> Conclusion: Since Luffy can punch things Zoro cant cut yet since orange town arc


You had the argument in the bag but you had to say some stupid shit like this? why?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So if Mr.1 goes on the defensive, blockung with spinning blades, what's the arguement for how Luffy beats him? He's just gonna throw his limbs into the grinder and hope for the best?


Attacks his back or lower body? Baits Mr 1 to attack him, then dodges last second to get his buzzsaw stuck into some sort of structure?

Reactions: Like 1


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## icyBankai (Jan 3, 2021)

Is this a bait thread to compare Luffy and Zoro?

Either way Luffy probably wins with difficulty. I don't see Luffy losing to any opponent Zoro has fought - especially if Luffy has plot armor.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ClannadFan (Jan 3, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Luffy is not Zoro
> 
> Why would Luffy put his feet on a buzzsaw?
> 
> ...


Yeah Luffy did that to Krieg, who he's far stronger than. You act like Daz is just moving at a snails pace in comparison to Luffy, and Luffy can do whatever he wants to him.

Daz doesn't have to just be on defense, when he actually tried on offense Zoro was down for the count, there's not much evidence that Luffy could take that much more damage than Zoro could at the time.

And atleast I'm on the side of thinking that it could go either way, just leaning towards Daz winning extreme diff. You guys who thinks Luffy's mid diffing him and have closed youe minds to any other possiblity are trippin.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Yeah Luffy did that to Krieg, who he's far stronger than.


Luffy is far stronger than Krieg? No proof of that which I can recall. Krieg was massively physically strong, and the reason why Luffy did that is because being straightforward was resulting in him being shield bashed. As well, we've seen Luffy be as creative in combat against more than just Krieg.


> You act like Daz is just moving at a snails pace in comparison to Luffy, and Luffy can do whatever he wants to him.


No, I act like someone who can be hit square by Mr 2 and Zoro would also be hit by Luffy since Luffy is a stronger, more dexterous, and more creative fighter than those two. Zoro landed 3 head shots on this dude in quick succession. You're not convincing me that Daz is so skilled that Luffy cannot land hits. I've already said Luffy will take damage in this fight.


> Daz doesn't have to just be on defense, when he actually tried on offense Zoro was down for the count, there's not much evidence that Luffy could take that much more damage than Zoro could at the time.


Sure, but only if you ignore all the damage that Luffy took at that time. Again, he was infected by a paralysis poison that was melting rocks and making it hard for him to move when he destroyed a city block.
Luffy is not Zoro. They don't have the same style. Zoro got hit because he thought throwing up his swords against buzzsaws was a good idea.
As well, Zoro even said the cuts he received were shallow.


> And atleast I'm on the side of thinking that it could go either way, just leaning towards Daz winning extreme diff. You guys who thinks Luffy's mid diffing him and have closed youe minds to any other possiblity are trippin.


I'm still waiting for the argument that gives Daz the path of victory.  Just because we disagree doesn't mean that I'm blind to other possibilities.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## muchentuchen (Jan 3, 2021)

I just got help from Enma and you want me to get another upgrade already? Still doesn't change the fact that Mr.1 is number 1 for a reason and would make gomu gomu no soup out of Luffy's guts with his shredder move. Yeahhh boy!


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## TheWiggian (Jan 3, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> >Thinks me pointing out head canon = a concession.
> 
> Lols



You have no argument and just respond with off-topic shit, guess you're conceding.



Kroczilla said:


> Oda: zoro can cut steel



Oda: "lion song to cut steel", sanji fans: "nope".



Kroczilla said:


> Daz: zoro has transcended himself



Oda: "Zoro cuts steel and even damages pacifista that are harder than steel", Sanji fans: "He jumped tiers while Sanji's gets his bones cracked".



Kroczilla said:


> Random fan boy: hE nEeDS To UsE ShEAt MovES



Oda: "lions song, Sanji fans: "nope".



Kroczilla said:


> Well good sir, when you provide me with explicit proof of your little fan lore, I will give it some thought.



Panels don't seem to help against denial.



Kroczilla said:


> Daz can be destroyed by every character who can cut steel. The fact there happened to be a ton of them presume skip and the fact that a ton of them are also far more skilled is really a YOU problem



Ok apart from Zoro i don't see any pre skip swordman except mihawk cutting steel, considering you need haki for that.



Kroczilla said:


> Tanking a casual kick from Mr. 2 is impressive though it should be pointed out that Mr. 2 never really stood a chance against sanji but for his DF and steel tipped swan boots.



Yea, sure that's why Sanji arrived on the first floor instead of a higher one at the clock tower, because he never stood a chance against Sanji. 



Kroczilla said:


> As for the rest, as I have explained over and over, loads of people much more durable than daz got destroyed without any hint of haki being involved.



Oh but the breath of steel is supposed to be haki, gonna deny that too now?



Kroczilla said:


> You: daz has only ever been harmed by haki blades
> Me;  people even more durable than him were hurt with zero haki involved
> You: *mindlessly screeches about NLF*



Keep denying lion's song's haki involvement. Also keep denying post timeskip characters with haki fail to shatter steel.



Kroczilla said:


> Cute that you think I will take this poorly made bait.



Bait? Nah you just look like a toddler crying for his pacifier.


Kroczilla said:


> Wtf. Luffy was getting hit by solid sand blades from crocodile who >>> daz and at one point, literally punch through said blades head on.



Yea Because those sand blades are confirmed to be above Mr.1's blades by extraterrestrial beings right?



Kroczilla said:


> Not to mention as others have said, daz's entire body isn't blade.



Which contradicts the narration:


*Spoiler*: __ 











But since you have a history to deny anything related to Zoro iam not surprised.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Ok apart from Zoro i don't see any pre skip swordman except mihawk cutting steel, considering you need haki for that.


T-bone carved up Puffing Tom during Water 7

Reactions: Like 1


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

ppl are trying to use headcanons here .

▪Daz bones :
《 そういう事になるな。打撃斬撃はおれには効かん》
《 Don’t be like that. Blows and cuts Doesn't Work on Me 》


▪《 打撃 》 = Blows


《打 》= strike


《撃 》= attack

*|||||||||||||||||||||||||||*

▪《斬撃》 = cutting attack


《斬 》= cut with sword


《撃 》= attack


And here we go close this thread Luffy gets destroyed .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

fenaker said:


> ppl are trying to use headcanons here .
> 
> ▪Daz bones :
> 《 そういう事になるな。打撃斬撃はおれには効かん》
> ...




Ye for those who can't break or cut steel, that's true. But Luffy can bend and break steel, just like Zoro cuts him when he eventually learns to cut steel.


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Ye for those who can't break or cut steel, that's true. But Luffy can bend and break steel, just like Zoro cuts him when he eventually learns to cut steel.


he can break shit daz bones said blows don't work on him


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

fenaker said:


> he can break shit daz bones said blows don't work on him


He also said cuts don't work on him but Zoro cut him, go figure

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 3


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> He also said cuts don't work on him but Zoro cut him, go figure


to do it Zoro needed CoA genius  i'm following manga not your headcanon

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

Mr1 high diffs Luffy

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

fenaker said:


> to do it Zoro needed CoA genius  i'm following manga not your headcanon


And Luffy didn't need CoA to break steel with his fists, that's the manga, not head-canon

Reactions: Like 1 | GODA 1


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> And Luffy didn't need CoA to break steel with his fists, that's the manga, not head-canon


and Zoro didn't need it to break hachi swords     and onigiri matched Gomu no bazooka in AP << which destroyed don kreig armor >> and Zoro onigiri still couldn't even put a scratch on mr 1 body and it is the same technique that broke hachi swords by the way i ain't each time lecturing u

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 3, 2021)

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a _fucking minute_! Daz said that he cannot be hurt???? Shut the whole thread down!






Vivo Diez said:


> He also said cuts don't work on him but Zoro cut him, go figure


Oh yaaeaahhhh.........feats > character statements born from ignorance and arrogance which are later disproven. Nevermind, everything said previously still stands.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a _fucking minute_! Daz said that he cannot be hurt???? Shut the whole thread down!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


CoA is the only way to do something against him and like i said .


fenaker said:


> and Zoro didn't need it to break hachi swords     and onigiri matched Gomu no bazooka in AP << which destroyed don kreig armor >> and Zoro onigiri still couldn't even put a scratch on mr 1 body and it is the same technique that broke hachi swords by the way i ain't each time lecturing u


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

fenaker said:


> and Zoro didn't need it to break hachi swords     and onigiri matched Gomu no bazooka in AP << which destroyed don kreig armor >> and Zoro onigiri still couldn't even put a scratch on mr 1 body and it is the same technique that broke hachi swords by the way i ain't each time lecturing u


The hachi feat is either an outlier or they weren't made out of steel. Zoro himself states in Alabasta that he can't cut steel, like, at all.



And cutting attacks versus blunt attacks are completely different in nature, I'm not sure why you're even making direct comparisons to which materials they can affect and can't just based on Luffy's skirmish with Zoro. Clearly Diamond Jozu has a huge advantage against swordsmen but not as much against brawlers for example.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 3, 2021)

fenaker said:


> CoA is the only way to do something against him and like i said .


Now _that _is headcanon.

I'm not going into a lot of detail again especially since your tone seems...trollish? To briefly address specific arguments you've made though:


fenaker said:


> and Zoro didn't need it to break hachi swords



There is a reason no one has bothered mentioning this. This only shows that Hachi's swords are not actually steel since:

-Zoro himself admits he cannot cut steel which means he doesn't consider Hachi's swords as such
-Zoro earlier couldn't cut through the steel on Luffy's cage (which Luffy was chewing into)
-that same Zoro who broke Hachi's swords couldn't scratch Arlong's nose (which Luffy grabbed and bent)


fenaker said:


> and onigiri matched Gomu no bazooka in AP << which destroyed don kreig armor >> and Zoro onigiri still couldn't even put a scratch on mr 1 body


Luffy didn't break through Krieg's armor in one bazooka. It took concentrated effort to accomplish.

Reactions: Like 4


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> The hachi feat is either an outlier or they weren't made out of steel. Zoro himself states in Alabasta that he can't cut steel, like, at all.
> 
> 
> 
> And cutting attacks versus blunt attacks are completely different in nature, I'm not sure why you're even making direct comparisons to which materials they can affect and can't just based on Luffy's skirmish with Zoro. Clearly Diamond Jozu has a huge advantage against swordsmen but not as much against brawlers for example.


so you use your headcanon now      
 Onigiri matched Bazooka in AP and the same Bazooka was used by luffy to break tour so called steel or don kreig armor and Onigiri destroyed hachi swords and your panel has the word << cut >> not break mr genius  cutting /=/ breaking  and onigiri AP couldn't even scratch Mr1 body your arguments get retarded with each reply though Zoro to defeat him needed CoA and MR1 statement is there and proved with onigiri ap = bazooka ap and still did nothing

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 3


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Now _that _is headcanon.
> 
> I'm not going into a lot of detail again especially since your tone seems...trollish? To briefly address specific arguments you've made though:
> 
> ...


now you are using your headcanon like the other dude 


fenaker said:


> so you use your headcanon now
> Onigiri matched Bazooka in AP and the same Bazooka was used by luffy to break tour so called steel or don kreig armor and Onigiri destroyed hachi swords and your panel has the word << cut >> not break mr genius  cutting /=/ breaking  and onigiri AP couldn't even scratch Mr1 body your arguments get retarded with each reply though Zoro to defeat him needed CoA and MR1 statement is there and proved with onigiri ap = bazooka ap and still did nothing

Reactions: Like 1


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

no arguments just assumption of nah it is nah i think

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

fenaker said:


> so you use your headcanon now
> Onigiri matched Bazooka in AP and the same Bazooka was used by luffy to break tour so called steel or don kreig armor and Onigiri destroyed hachi swords and your panel has the word << cut >> not break mr genius  cutting /=/ breaking  and onigiri AP couldn't even scratch Mr1 body your arguments get retarded with each reply though Zoro to defeat him needed CoA and MR1 statement is there and proved with onigiri ap = bazooka ap and still did nothing


Oh alright, you're just not comprehending anything of what we're saying and over-compensating by trying to act smug. I see.


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## fenaker (Jan 3, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Oh alright, you're just not comprehending anything of what we're saying and over-compensating by trying to act smug. I see.


it's u using ur fanfiction here claiming breaking = cutting while Zoro onigiri did break Hachi weapons and matched bazooka that broke the steel and still didn't put a sratch on his body try hard next time

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 3, 2021)

fenaker said:


> it's u using ur fanfiction here claiming breaking = cutting while Zoro onigiri did break Hachi weapons and matched bazooka that broke the steel and still didn't put a sratch on his body try hard next time


How do you think he broke Hachi's sword, by farting on them? He cut them with his signature Onigiri technique.


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## Kroczilla (Jan 4, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You  I have no argument and just respond with off-topic shit, guess you're I am conceding.


Fixed.


TheWiggian said:


> Oda: "lion song to cut    Zoro can cut steel", sanji fans: "nope. Yes, yes he can".


Fixed


TheWiggian said:


> Oda: "Zoro cuts steel and even damages pacifista that are harder than steel", Sanji fans: "He jumped tiers while Sanji's gets his bones cracked".


For someone who claims to not care about sanji, you certainly seem to enjoy bringing him up a lot. Also totally irrelevant point btw.


TheWiggian said:


> Oda: "lions song, Sanji fans: "nope".


See above. Already fixed that.


TheWiggian said:


> Panels don't seem to help against denial.


I mean, it's not like you have any relevant panels to speak of. Still waiting on that panel where zoro said only lion song can cut steel. Find me that and we are golden.


TheWiggian said:


> Ok apart from Zoro i don't see any pre skip swordman except mihawk


Captain T-bone, Kaku, zombie ryuuma, marine hq VAs, Vista, Any relevant swordsman pretime skip, all come to mind. 






TheWiggian said:


> Yea, sure that's why Sanji arrived on the first floor instead of a higher one at the clock tower, because he never stood a chance against Sanji.


Relevance?


TheWiggian said:


> Oh but the breath of steel is supposed to be haki, gonna deny that too now?


Me: Oda says zoro can cut steel and even said he transcended himself.
You: he can only do it with a specific technique.
Me: proof?
You:, *brain farts*

This I think sums up the debate quite nicely.



TheWiggian said:


> Keep denying lion's song's haki involvement. Also *keep denying post timeskip characters with haki fail to shatter steel.*


See above. When you find me that panel that explicitly states it could only be done with lion song, then we can have a discussion. Till then.

@bolded. Already addressed this.




TheWiggian said:


> Bait? Nah you just look like a toddler crying for his pacifier.


Oh no! Some crazy dude on the internet likened me to a toddler. Now my life is over.

Tell my family... I love them




























TheWiggian said:


> Yea Because those sand blades are confirmed to be above Mr.1's blades by extraterrestrial beings right?


Nah. Because even lower lvl of said sand blades had better if not more impressive cutting power.


TheWiggian said:


> Which contradicts the narration:
> 
> *Spoiler*:
> 
> ...


Seems comprehension isn't your biggest strength which makes sense, all things considered.

Me saying, "I can do something" doesn't equate to me doing said thing. E.g "I can cover my entire body with fire"=\= "my entire body is covered in fire".

See the difference.

Not to mention, based on ACTUAL SHOWINGS, daz's fighting style focuses exclusively on using his limbs as blades.

Not that it matters given east blue Luffy was chomping down steel blades like they were vegan cracker.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 4, 2021)

Wait....

Daz says he can't be hurt by blows or cuts. He then gets hurt by a cut.

You guys say feats>character statements.


Zoro says he cant cut steel. He has cut steel before aka Hachi swords, also steel has been shown to be broken quite easily before aka the Luffy feats people have been posting.

But now Zoros statement that he cant cut steel overrides all the feats???? Wouldn't it make sense to say Mr.1's steel is stronger than normal steel? Idk just like how every other DF users element is stronger than thier regular state. I don't know much rubber thats keeping up with Luffy. Unless Luffy is now rubber lvl.

Make it make sense. Is it about feats or character statements?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 4, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Make it make sense. Is it about feats or character statements?


Is it really so confusing? Here is what I said:


Oberyn Nymeros said:


> .....feats > character statements born from ignorance and arrogance which are later disproven.


You should evaluate each situation individually and aim for story consistency whenever possible. 
Ex: 
-If Billy declares "my shield is unbreakable!" and then his shield is broken, it means that he was wrong and overestimated his equipment or underestimated his opponent. It wouldn't make sense to assume that the author meant for the shield to be literally unbreakable and then forgot.
-If Sally declares "there's no way I can break down that door" and then proceeds to find another way into the building, we have to assume that she is correctly estimating her abilities since the plot is giving us no reason to doubt her. 
However, If Sally does try and succeed in breaking down the door, it means she overestimated the door and underestimated her strength. We wouldn't assume "the author must have forgotten that Sally is too weak for the door."


Rationally, If Zoro couldn't handle steel before the Hachi fight and he couldn't handle steel after, then obviously Hachi's swords weren't steel or were of such extraordinarily poor quality that Zoro doesn't consider them worthy of consideration. 

If you want to say that Oda wrote a plot hole in Arlong Park, that's fine. We're not going to base an argument off a plot hole though for obvious reasons especially when Oda made his intentions with Zoro's abilities very clear.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jan 4, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> If Luffy fought Mr 1 instead of Zoro, could he of won? IMO he seems like a bad match up for Luffy.


Didn't I debate this for 40 pages in 2019.

Was that thread archived?
Luffy in DressRosa had AP up to small town:


Mob said:


> Based on their best feats Luffy tears Mr1 head off
> 
> 
> 
> VS


and he crushed steel since East Blue including Arlong sword with his fingers alone.
Here is the scan, this is calculated at that AP Level.

Then in EL with G3 one-shot a way denser Steel bunker door.

Luffy low extreme diffs Mr1.



Strobacaxi said:


> There's no way Mr 1's body is harder than that city block Luffy destroyed


Of course ... that is low town level AP.

Steal gets broken.

But  I debated this in 2019, now it it back in 2021 ... LOL.


LOL


fenaker said:


> he can break shit daz bones said blows don't work on him


Yeah and ?

He said that cuts don't work on him.

Then Zoro cut him.

Meaning his words mean nothing and Luffs has the AP to crush steel.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> T-bone carved up Puffing Tom during Water 7



Yea iam impressed with him cutting a wooden door, at least he did better than smoothie


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 5, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea iam impressed with him cutting a wooden door, at least he did better than smoothie


He cut a rectangle around the door, through the metal interior, not the wooden door itself. Try again

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Jan 5, 2021)

Zed Ecks said:


> On the subject of whether Luffy is at risk because he's not immune to slash damage, neither is Zoro, who got cut up bad, but still managed to survive, and win.



Zoro has swords to Block.


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## Quipchaque (Jan 5, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> And Luffy didn't need CoA to break steel with his fists, that's the manga, not head-canon



He never broke a whole steel body though. Luffy can Throw dirt so I guess that means he can also throw whole mountains of dirt. I swear some of you guys have the brain of a toddler...


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## TheWiggian (Jan 5, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> He cut a rectangle around the door, through the metal interior, not the wooden door itself. Try again




*Spoiler*: __ 











Yea why need CoA or MC strenght if Usopp can simply hammer nails into steel 

Take the "L" and stop complaining


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## Kroczilla (Jan 5, 2021)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Zoro has swords to Block.


And Luffy is ridiculously agile. Daz would find it nearly impossible to tag him the moment Luffy gets serious.


DiscoZoro20 said:


> He never broke a whole steel body though. Luffy can Throw dirt so I guess that means he can also throw whole mountains of dirt. I swear some of you guys have the brain of a toddler...



What the hell kinda argument is this?

All that's needed is to beat Daz is being able to damage steel. Zoro achieved that by cutting him. Luffy has been smashing steel since EB. He has the tools to hurt daz which btw doesn't require breaking his whole body. He went down from a single slash.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zed Ecks (Jan 5, 2021)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Zoro has swords to Block.


He does, except when he doesn't.


And he still got up from that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Jan 6, 2021)

Zed Ecks said:


> He does, except when he doesn't.
> 
> 
> And he still got up from that.



Obviously. But that still is better protection and came in Handy from time to time.


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## ClannadFan (Jan 6, 2021)

Zed Ecks said:


> He does, except when he doesn't.
> 
> 
> And he still got up from that.


And when he didn't, he lost the fight, if there was no PIS. Mr.1 walkes away after that thinking he won. If he wanted to, Zoro couldn't stop him from killing him immediately after that attack.


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## Beast (Jan 6, 2021)

Gyro said:


> "The *Supa Supa no Mi* is a -type  that enables the user's body to gain characteristics of a steel blade to attack opponents with, making the user a *Fullbody Bladed Human* (全身刃物人間, _Zenshin Hamono Ningen_)."
> 
> Just because he didn't show head or torso blades doesn't mean he can't make them, it's literally the whole shtick of his Devil Fruit. He's not a steel man he's a blade man


Lol, Daz doesn’t get extra powers he has never shown lol.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zed Ecks (Jan 6, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> And when he didn't, he lost the fight, if there was no PIS. Mr.1 walkes away after that thinking he won. If he wanted to, Zoro couldn't stop him from killing him immediately after that attack.


PIS it certainly was, but it doesn't change the fact he took the injury, got up and was still in good enough shape to drop Mr. 1 in one move.

Reactions: Like 1


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## CatTankIsNotAmused (Jan 7, 2021)

Luffy beats him obviously. The only one or two people claiming otherwise are known Zoro fanboys, who wank him much harder than regular Zoro fans.


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

- OHHHH ! Luffy stans it's been a long time we didn't discuss this topic but you know what ? fenaker took the opportunity to start rereading one piece from the start and saving the panels that i need for discussion .
i found these panels that magically can end this debat for good lmao let's start :

1- MR 1 can make his entire body becoming all blades / Human blade / his entire body is made of blade ( steel durability as mentioned by Zoro a lot of times )  :

*Spoiler*: _MR 1_ 










*Spoiler*: _Steel durability / steel breath _ 











- Even Zoro when he attacked his torso he couldn't scratch him either using a technique that could stalemate Bazooka that could break Don krieg steel armor :
Luffy vs Zoro

*Spoiler*: __ 







Zoro vs Daz bones :

*Spoiler*: __ 








- just like Luffy who ate the Gomu Gomu fruit and has his entire body in rubber and got called a rubber man :

2-  MR. 1 said that :

▪Daz bones :
《 そういう事になるな。打撃斬撃はおれには効かん》
《 Don’t be like that. Blows and cuts Doesn't Work for Me 》


▪《 打撃 》 = Blows


《打 》= strike


《撃 》= attack

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||

▪《斬撃》 = cutting attack


《斬 》= cut with sword


《撃 》= attack


- And that panel translated by stephen the current viz translator for op :

*Spoiler*: _stephen paul_ 







- Now let's talk about what's important that Luffy stans used each time oh luffy broke steel in east blue blah blah :
Do you know that Franky is made of steel / has steel durability ?

*Spoiler*: __ 











- And Luffy fought Franky whose body is made of steel off screen but you know what Franky said after luffy used his attacks or the so called breaking steels in east blue feats attacks / techniques :
Off panel fight

*Spoiler*: __ 







What Franky said :

*Spoiler*: __ 










- Did you notice the colored panel above ? who is the one who has bruises after the fight between them ? what did Franky say about luffy attacks ?
1- It's Luffy who got bruises and before the off screen of the fight he had no bruises .

*Spoiler*: __ 









2- after the clash with franky Luffy couldn't break the steel durability and his attacks called useless and even one of them on panel didn't show anything so much for breaking Arlong nose and destroying steel armors in east blue lmao .


*Spoiler*: __ 













And here we go , close this thread after the Faxxxx

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## trance (Mar 27, 2021)

lol

daz gets his ass beat


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## Nikseng (Mar 27, 2021)

Luffy beat his ass eventually, high diff or so. Won't get to extreme.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

trance said:


> lol
> 
> daz gets his ass beat





Nikseng said:


> Luffy beat his ass eventually, high diff or so. Won't get to extreme.


With ur headcanons yeah he beats him

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (Mar 27, 2021)

Luffy wins, and he has a much easier time than Zoro. Luffy broke Kreig’s armour and Arlong’s steel sword.

Luffy mid difficulty.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Luffy wins, and he has a much easier time than Zoro. Luffy broke Kreig’s armour and Arlong’s steel sword.
> 
> Luffy mid difficulty.


*Are u sure ? Lmao when he couldn't even break Franky steel body*


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## A Optimistic (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> *Are u sure ? Lmao when he couldn't even break Franky steel body*



The entire Straw Hat crew was weak in Water 7 due to Robin’s “betrayal”. Enies Lobby and Thriller Bark made it clear how weak Franky is compared to the Monster Trio. He was one shotted by Lucci and Lucci casually tanked his strongest attack. Enies Lobby Luffy would murder Franky.


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> The entire Straw Hat crew was weak in Water 7 due to Robin’s “betrayal”. Enies Lobby and Thriller Bark made it clear how weak Franky is compared to the Monster Trio. He was one shotted by Lucci and Lucci casually tanked his strongest attack. Enies Lobby Luffy would murder Franky.


And this thread is about alabasta Luffy not Enies Lobby Luffy though with Gears around .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> And this thread is about alabasta Luffy not Enies Lobby Luffy though with Gears around .


Any version of Luffy from pre-timeskip would beat the brakes off of  Franky. Luffy was just nerfed in Water 7, the entire M3 was.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> And this thread is about alabasta Luffy not Enies Lobby Luffy though with Gears around .


Alabasta Luffy isnt going to be depressed about Robin’s betrayal. You brought up Franky, not me.


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Any version of Luffy from pre-timeskip would beat the brakes off of  Franky. Luffy was just nerfed in Water 7, the entire M3 was.


Don't give me ur headcanons ; panels are posted above with his version of water seven ( No Gears around ) and and below versus Franky steel body


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## TheWiggian (Mar 27, 2021)

I argued here before that the further we get in the story the harder steel is portrayed. Luffy smashes steel in east blue but his post ts version with haki fails to replicate that. They call it NLF because they have no other excuse for that phenomenon.

No one wants to listen so just let them leave this world dumb.

Reactions: Like 1


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Alabasta Luffy isnt going to be depressed about Robin’s betrayal. You brought up Franky, not me.


Why couldn't he break Franky steel body in water seven ? where is the so called breaking don krieg armor before that in east blue Luffy stans wanked that shit a lot ?


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> i argued here before that the further we get in the story the harder steel is portrayed. Luffy smashes steel in east blue but his post ts version with haki fails to replicate that.
> 
> No one wants to listen so just let them leave this world dumb.


I posted Franky steel body vs water seven Luffy .
you have panels of Luffy not doing a shit off panel where Franky adknowldged that his attacks not hurting  breaking his steel body heck he was shown without a scratch on his body and Luffy having bruises on his face and he used Gomu no whip and couldn't do shit


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> Don't give me ur headcanons ; panels are posted above with his version of water seven ( No Gears around ) and and below versus Franky steel body


Sure, a Luffy who isn't giving it his all. Luffy went all out to break Krieg's armor and break Arlong's sword. I think that Daz would be harder to break down for Luffy than those two instances, but Luffy can definitely hurt Daz through his steel body.


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Sure, a Luffy who isn't giving it his all. Luffy went all out to break Krieg's armor and break Arlong's sword. I think that Daz would be harder to break down for Luffy than those two instances, but Luffy can definitely hurt Daz through his steel body.


Your headcanons and excuses ain't helping here go read the fight between Luffy and Franky ; Luffy was enraged and wanted to beat him and there was an off panel fight between them afterwards we have Franky saying that his attacks didn't work with franky appearing clean and Luffy with bruises on his face and he even used Gomu no whip and couldn't do shit


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## TheWiggian (Mar 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Alabasta Luffy isnt going to be depressed about Robin’s betrayal. You brought up Franky, not me.



Robins betrayal happened after the Franky fight. This is Luffy who wanted revenge for Franky stealing their cash and assault on Usopp:





fenaker said:


> I posted Franky steel body vs water seven Luffy .
> you have panels of Luffy not doing a shit off panel where Franky adknowldged that his attacks not hurting  breaking his steel body heck he was shown without a scratch on his body and Luffy having bruises on his face and he used Gomu no whip and couldn't do shit



It's Luffy man. What do you expect, i mean he got to be better than anyone else in nearly everything right? Wano Luffy for example has proven he is a better swordsman than Zoro too wielding that nidai Kitetsu and cooking an awesome pot of food for his friends, surpassing Sanji as the best strawhat cook.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> Your headcanons and excuses ain't helping here go read the fight between Luffy and Franky ; Luffy was enraged and wanted to beat him and there was an off panel fight between them afterwards we have Franky saying that his attacks didn't work with franky appearing clean and Luffy with bruises on his face and he even used Gomu no whip and couldn't do shit


Luffy and Zoro were also going all-out to kill each other in Whiskey Peak.

Thing is, Luffy broke Arlong's steel sword and Don Krieg's armor, so he won't have an issue eventually overcoming Daz.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 27, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Robins betrayal happened after the Franky fight. This is Luffy who wanted revenge for Franky stealing their cash and assault on Usopp:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


C’mon bro. Me thinking Luffy can destroy steel when he’s shown to destroy steel doesn’t mean I think he’s better than Zoro at everything.


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Luffy and Zoro were also going all-out to kill each other in Whiskey Peak.
> 
> Thing is, Luffy broke Arlong's steel sword and Don Krieg's armor, so he won't have an issue eventually overcoming Daz.


Oh why  couldn't he do shit to Franky steel body then ? Or you want to ignore that .
Luffy was enraged and wanted to beat him and there was an off panel fight between them afterwards we have Franky saying that his attacks didn't work with franky appearing clean and Luffy with bruises on his face and he even used Gomu no whip and couldn't do shit .
Read below


fenaker said:


> - Now let's talk about what's important that Luffy stans used each time oh luffy broke steel in east blue blah blah :
> Do you know that Franky is made of steel / has steel durability ?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> Oh why  couldn't he do shit to Franky steel body then ? Or you want to ignore that .
> Luffy was enraged and wanted to beat him and there was an off panel fight between them afterwards we have Franky saying that his attacks didn't work with franky appearing clean and Luffy with bruises on his face and he even used Gomu no whip and couldn't do shit .
> Read below


Luffy would beat the ever living shit out of Franky. I don't know what else to tell you.


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> C’mon bro. Me thinking Luffy can destroy steel when he’s shown to destroy steel doesn’t mean I think he’s better than Zoro at everything.


Oh he destroyed steel that's a good thing Zoro also destroyed Hacchi blades ; and Onigiri matched in power Gomu no Bazooka that broke your so called steel  but it couldn't scratch Daz steel body and you know what Onigiri is the same technique that broke Hacchi blades as i said above .

Oh !! And that magical ability of breaking steel and destroying it disappeared when Luffy went against Franky steel body in water seven ?

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## TheWiggian (Mar 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Luffy and Zoro were also going all-out to kill each other in Whiskey Peak.
> 
> Thing is, Luffy broke Arlong's steel sword and Don Krieg's armor, so he won't have an issue eventually overcoming Daz.



My man can you please explain how a hundred times stronger version of EB Luffy with haki fails to replicate that feat here?





A Optimistic said:


> C’mon bro. Me thinking Luffy can destroy steel when he’s shown to destroy steel doesn’t mean I think he’s better than Zoro at everything.



That's generally speaking as it was a response to another user. Anyway i have yet to see a rebuttal to the fact that steel gets portrayed tougher and stronger as the story goes on which naturally also includes Daz Bones armor.

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## A Optimistic (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> Oh !! And that magical ability of breaking steel and destroying it disappeared when Luffy went against Franky steel body in water seven ?



I don’t have an explanation for this.


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Luffy would beat the ever living shit out of Franky. I don't know what else to tell you.


Yeah in ur headcanon because in OP version that didn't happen with the panel posted above in water seven and also who is the one who had bruises from the fight and couldn't break the so called steel that formed franky body ? keep denying that because it destroys ur powerlevel list


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I don’t have an explanation for this.


That's a good answer my fellow Zoro stan ;  sometimes ppl need to adknowledge some things instead of trying to push headcanons around

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> Yeah in ur headcanon because in OP version that didn't happen with the panel posted above in water seven and also who is the one who had bruises from the fight and couldn't break the so called steel that formed franky body ? keep denying that because it destroys ur powerlevel list


Ryuma low diffed Brook who is as strong as Franky and Zoro beat Ryuma with loads of room to spare. There ya go pal.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 27, 2021)

fenaker said:


> That's a good answer my fellow Zoro stan ;  sometimes ppl need to adknowledge some things instead of trying to push headcanons around



I’ll admit you and Wiggan’s Franky argument changed my mind, it was a good argument. I’ll take the L.

Reactions: Like 2 | Neutral 1


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Ryuma low diffed Brook who is as strong as Franky and Zoro beat Ryuma with loads of room to spare. There ya go pal.


Where did u get this headcanon of franky = Brook lmao ; and what's the relation between this thread and what you said


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## TheWiggian (Mar 27, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I’ll admit you and Wiggan’s Franky argument changed my mind, it was a good argument. I’ll take the L.



You should praise @fenaker only. He's the one who came up with it.

Reactions: Like 2


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## fenaker (Mar 27, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You should praise @fenaker only. He's the one who came up with it.


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Ah people finally coming around to the truth. Mr.1 is just too bad of a match up for Alabasta Luffy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kroczilla (Mar 27, 2021)

Pacifistas are also "made of steel", but are clearly miles above Daz in durability.

Same could also be said of Franky who can take blows from Blueno. For reference, here's what Blueno casually does to steel




Luffy breaks daz. So does Franky btw.


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## ClannadFan (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Pacifistas are also "made of steel", but are clearly miles above Daz in durability.
> 
> Same could also be said of Franky who can take blows from Blueno. For reference, here's what Blueno casually does to steel
> 
> ...


Point is, many were trying to make the point that Luffy has broken steel previously, so that automatically means he can break Mr.1 just as easily. But as you pointed out with the Pacifista, not all steel is equal.

And the problem isn't just the fact that his body is steel, it's that he can make his entire body a blade. Meaning every attack Luffy lands will give him a cut, the harder he hits Mr.1, the worse the cut will be.

I'm under the belief that Alabasta Luffy would extreme diff Alabasta Zoro. And Alabasta Zoro extreme diff'd Mr.1 with the help of plot armor. So if they're all around the same lvl, and Mr.1 is a terrible match up for Luffy then without plot armor I just don't realistically see Luffy beating him before he bleeds out.

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## Kroczilla (Mar 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Point is, many were trying to make the point that Luffy has broken steel previously, so that automatically means he can break Mr.1 just as easily. But as you pointed out with the Pacifista, not all steel is equal.



Here's the thing though. Unlike Pacifistas and Franky, Alabasta Daz doesn't have anything to give him the benefit of doubt that his durability is above regular steel. It was through him that Zoro learnt the basics of cutting steel. In other words, he doesn't scale to the higher level of steel that we saw much later in the series.

He doesn't even have feats of breaking steel himself whereas Blueno and by extension, Franky do. 



ClannadFan said:


> And the problem isn't just the fact that his body is steel, it's that he can make his entire body a blade. Meaning every attack Luffy lands will give him a cut, the harder he hits Mr.1, the worse the cut will be.


The point though as pointed out are that:

1. Luffy has zero problem hurting his hands as shown against Don Krieg. Also he would be literally breaking Daz with his punches

2. Luffy is just an incredibly agile and creative fighter so much so that when he really got going, crocodile could barely do anything. He's gonna be landing hits on Daz all day whereas Daz will be very unlikely to return the favour.

3. Punching isn't the only way by which Luffy can damage steel

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## ClannadFan (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Here's the thing though. Unlike Pacifistas and Franky, Alabasta Daz doesn't have anything to give him the benefit of doubt that his durability is above regular steel. It was through him that Zoro learnt the basics of cutting steel. In other words, he doesn't scale to the higher level of steel that we saw much later in the series.
> 
> He doesn't even have feats of breaking steel himself whereas Blueno and by extension, Franky do.
> 
> ...


I'd say we can 100% give Mr.1 the benefit of the doubt that his steel is harder than anything Luffy has encountered up until that point. His fruit works similarly to Luffy's, in that it makes his body into steel. If you believe that his steel body is just as hard as any random piece of steel laying around, then that's implying that training would have no increase on his bodys durability. And I'm sure we all know that's not true. If it were then Luffy would be rubber ball lvl.

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## Kroczilla (Mar 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I'd say we can 100% give Mr.1 the benefit of the doubt that his steel is harder than anything Luffy has encountered up until that point. His fruit works similarly to Luffy's, in that it makes his body into steel. If you believe that his steel body is just as hard as any random piece of steel laying around, then that's implying that training would have no increase on his bodys durability. And I'm sure we all know that's not true. If it were then Luffy would be rubber ball lvl.


The problem here is that Luffy has had his DF since he was a little kid. He grew his monster like strength in tandem with his DF and even without it, there is absolutely no reason to believe EB Saga Luffy wouldn't still be capable of shattering steel with brute force.

Daz can't get that benefit coz the lore doesn't back him up on that front. He also can't cut steel himself given that Zoro's swords remained in mint condition after clashing repeatedly with Daz. Whereas as I showed, Blueno can casually destroy Steel and Franky definitely scales to him. Daz has nothing higher than regular steel to scale to.
Daz was the foundation upon which Zoro learnt to cut steel hence even from a narrative stand point, it makes no sense that his durability is on a higher grade especially considering that Alabasta Zoro even after learning to cut steel wouldn't be able to straight up oneshot Franky and Blueno the way he did Daz.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ClannadFan (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> The problem here is that Luffy has had his DF since he was a little kid. He grew his monster like strength in tandem with his DF and even without it, there is absolutely no reason to believe EB Saga Luffy wouldn't still be capable of shattering steel with brute force.
> 
> Daz can't get that benefit coz the lore doesn't back him up on that front. He also can't cut steel himself given that Zoro's swords remained in mint condition after clashing repeatedly with Daz. Whereas as I showed, Blueno can casually destroy Steel and Franky definitely scales to him. Daz has nothing higher than regular steel to scale to.
> Daz was the foundation upon which Zoro learnt to cut steel hence even from a narrative stand point, it makes no sense that his durability is on a higher grade especially considering that Alabasta Zoro even after learning to cut steel wouldn't be able to straight up oneshot Franky and Blueno the way he did Daz.


Didn't Zoro already shatter Hachi's blades? Also, even if we low ball Mr.1's steel, and say its the same lvl of steel that Luffy has shown to break before, that does not mean he can break Mr.1.

Luffy has shown the ability to break thin pieces of steel, nothing close to the size and girth of a grown man. That matters. I can bend a thin steel bar. An olympic bar can bend if you're squatting 405. But I promise you that same quality of steel if given the size of a grown man will not bend to anything even close to what it took to bend the steel bar. So Luffy breaking a Kreigs armor or Arlongs sword does not equal to breaking a much larger quantity of steel, even if the quality is the same.

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## fenaker (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Pacifistas are also "made of steel", but are clearly miles above Daz in durability.
> 
> Same could also be said of Franky who can take blows from Blueno. For reference, here's what Blueno casually does to steel
> 
> ...


While in fact he didn't break Franky steel body after an off screen clash and he used Gomu no whip which couldn't do shit and guess who is the one who got bruises after that fight a got adknowledged that his attacks aren't working it's Luffy Ohhhh !!! Where did that breaking steel ability go against Franky in water seven ?
Also in FMI with a hundred stronger version  of that Luffy who u said broke steel in EB even with Haki he only dented it why didn't he break it ?

Bring arguments Instead of no it's a PIS bs you spam around .

As for Zoro not beating franky nor blueno if he used shi shi sonson that's a fucking headcanon Shi shi sonson could dent something hard than steel with its force and leave Kuma bleeding and sweating don't compare an iron imitation / Steel durability to that fucking Kaku chose to block it instead of tanking it wity tekkai that can give u an answer

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## fenaker (Mar 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Didn't Zoro already shatter Hachi's blades? Also, even if we low ball Mr.1's steel, and say its the same lvl of steel that Luffy has shown to break before, that does not mean he can break Mr.1.
> 
> Luffy has shown the ability to break thin pieces of steel, nothing close to the size and girth of a grown man. That matters. I can bend a thin steel bar. An olympic bar can bend if you're squatting 405. But I promise you that same quality of steel if given the size of a grown man will not bend to anything even close to what it took to bend the steel bar. So Luffy breaking a Kreigs armor or Arlongs sword does not equal to breaking a much larger quantity of steel, even if the quality is the same.


1- why couldn't he break Franky steel body after an off screen fight with the so called breaking steel ability ? ( Fenaker )
2- why couldn't he break steel in FMI with the so called steel breaking ability while using Haki ?
( Wiggian )
They need to answer these questions ?


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## TheWiggian (Mar 28, 2021)

fenaker said:


> 1- why couldn't he break Franky steel body after an off screen fight with the so called breaking steel ability ? ( Fenaker )
> 2- why couldn't he break steel in FMI with the so called steel breaking ability while using Haki ?
> ( Wiggian )
> They need to answer these questions ?



They can't give an answer. They call it NLF and call you a troll because they have no other arguments. Instead of just admitting steel gets portrayed tougher as the story goes on (which even makes sense and is consistent with the feats against it). But that would mean Daz will pose a challenge to Luffy and Luffy needs to low-mid diff him so they can say Luffy >>> Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## fenaker (Mar 28, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> They can't give an answer. They call it NLF and call you a troll because they have no other arguments. Instead of just admitting steel gets portrayed tougher as the story goes on (which even makes sense and is consistent with the feats against it). But that would mean Daz will pose a challenge to Luffy and Luffy needs to low-mid diff him so they can say Luffy >>> Zoro.


The Irony in that lmao


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## Kroczilla (Mar 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> even if we low ball Mr.1's steel, and say its the same lvl of steel that Luffy has shown to break before, that does not mean he can break Mr.1.



Okay, looks like we might have something here.



ClannadFan said:


> Luffy has shown the ability to break thin pieces of steel, nothing close to the size and girth of a grown man



*Sigh* Okay, let me pose a simple question. 

Did zoro need to slice through anywhere near the full girth of Daz to put him down for good?



ClannadFan said:


> That matters. I can bend a thin steel bar. An olympic bar can bend if you're squatting 405. But I promise you that same quality of steel if given the size of a grown man will not bend to anything even close to what it took to bend the steel bar. So Luffy breaking a Kreigs armor or Arlongs sword does not equal to breaking a much larger quantity of steel, even if the quality is the same



A thin bar does not equate to Arlong's saber which was later thick, nor the steel bars that Luffy chomped through against buggy.

But to further address the point on thickness (lol)




This is pearl,one of Don Krieg's subordinates wearing a rather thick slab of steel as an armour. Yet Krieg's armour comfortable >>>>>> His.

Also this point is defeated by the fact that again, neither Zoro not Mihawk needed to slice through anything even remotely resembling the full girth of Mr. 1 to lay him out. Why them would Luffy have to be concerned about his full girth.


fenaker said:


> Also in FMI with a hundred stronger version of that Luffy who u said broke steel in EB even with Haki he only dented it why didn't he break it ?





TheWiggian said:


> They can't give an answer. They call it NLF and call you a troll because they have no other arguments. Instead of just admitting steel gets portrayed tougher as the story goes on (which even makes sense and is consistent with the feats against it). But that would mean Daz will pose a challenge to Luffy and Luffy needs to low-mid diff him so they can say Luffy >>> Zoro.



  


About the best response I can give these tbh. Coz they don't warrant anything more serious tbh.


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## fenaker (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Okay, looks like we might have something here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so no answer from u and just u calling it PIS 

1- why couldn't he break Franky steel body after an off screen fight with the so called breaking steel ability ? ( Fenaker )
2- why couldn't he break steel in FMI with the so called steel breaking ability while using Haki ?
( Wiggian )

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## ClannadFan (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> *Sigh* Okay, let me pose a simple question.
> 
> Did zoro need to slice through anywhere near the full girth of Daz to put him down for good?


Lemme give you an example of how I visualize it.

Luffy breaking steel plated armor is similar to a Karate student breaking wooden tiles. Yeah that kid might be able to karate chop through 20 if those things with ease, but what happens when he tries to karate chop a tree? It's all made of the same wood right? Luffy's quite strong, so yeah eventually that tree would go down, but now what if instead of just a tree, its a tree that also has spikes every possible place you could hit? I promise you that in itself makes it dozens of times harder than it already was, to karate chop that tree down. And no you don't need to cut a tree all the way through for it to fall, but you gotta get pretty deep in there.


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## Kroczilla (Mar 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Lemme give you an example of how I visualize it.
> 
> Luffy breaking steel plated armor is similar to a Karate student breaking wooden tiles. Yeah that kid might be able to karate chop through 20 if those things with ease, but what happens when he tries to karate chop a tree? It's all made of the same wood right? Luffy's quite strong, so yeah eventually that tree would go down, but now what if instead of just a tree, its a tree that also has spikes every possible place you could hit? I promise you that in itself makes it dozens of times harder than it already was, to karate chop that tree down. And no you don't need to cut a tree all the way through for it to fall, but you gotta get pretty deep in there.


Allow me to paint the same scenario differently. Say said Karate student is capable of shattering tiles of wood with ease. But against a tree, he can only make dents in it. Now obviously against an inanimate object, it wouldn't mean much. But Daz isn't an inanimate object now is he?

Given than he went down from a single slash, I don't see how simply denting his torso wouldn't achieve exactly the same result.

Nothing indicates that Zoro's finishing slash was particularly deep, but it finished off Daz just fine.

Also the tile analogy doesn't quite work. As I pointed out, scaling off Pearl's armour, Luffy has smashed through armour more durable that a slab of steel.

There's also the fact that he broke Crocodile's hook which going by their respective Marineford showing, is at least as, if not more durable than Daz

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## ClannadFan (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Allow me to paint the same scenario differently. Say said Karate student is capable of shattering tiles of wood with ease. But against a tree, he can only make dents in it. Now obviously against an inanimate object, it wouldn't mean much. But Daz isn't an inanimate object now is he?
> 
> Given than he went down from a single slash, I don't see how simply denting his torso wouldn't achieve exactly the same result.
> 
> ...


Well it definetly hurts more to be slashed by a sword than to be punched lol. I think you're ignoring the fact that Mr.1 isn't just steel, but also a blade. I'd give Luffy the win if all Mr.1 had was steel lvl durability. But you guys just assume Luffy can punch his blades for days ez pz lmao. I used spikes in my wood analogy, but steel blades are definetly more painful to punch than a spike. Luffy literally could lose a limb if he isn't careful. Also using Luffy breaking Crocs hook is a reach. Given how narrow it is and the way it hit the floor, that makes sense that it broke lol.


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## Kroczilla (Mar 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Well it definetly hurts more to be slashed by a sword than to be punched lol. I think you're ignoring the fact that Mr.1 isn't just steel, but also a blade. I'd give Luffy the win if all Mr.1 had was steel lvl durability. But you guys just assume Luffy can punch his blades for days ez pz lmao. I used spikes in my wood analogy, but steel blades are definetly more painful to punch than a spike. Luffy literally could lose a limb if he isn't careful. Also using Luffy breaking Crocs hook is a reach. Given how narrow it is and the way it hit the floor, that makes sense that it broke lol.


Bruh, if you got punched hard enough to dent your torso, you would probably wish you got slashed. 

As I already pointed out over and over again, apart from the fact that Luffy was no qualms punching sharp objects to hurt his opponent, Luffy is simply way too agile a fighter for Mr. 1 to get the drop on particularly once he gets serious.

Even if we assume that he can indeed turn every part of his body to a blade, the key word here is CAN i.e. it's not a passive ability. There's also the fact that Luffy doesn't need to punch him to hurt him. Gripping his bladed arms the way he did Arlong's swords would hurt Daz.... A Lot.

As for Crocodile's hook. Given that he clashed evenly with Mihawk with it while Daz got one shot, it certainly atleast just as durable. The way it hit the floor isn't very relevant. If you don't have the required force behind your moves (in the case, a basic stamp from Luffy) you are breaking steel. Also Luffy couldn't afford to make direct contact with the hook as it was coated with pretty powerful poison.


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## ClannadFan (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Bruh, if you got punched hard enough to dent your torso, you would probably wish you got slashed.
> 
> As I already pointed out over and over again, apart from the fact that Luffy was no qualms punching sharp objects to hurt his opponent, Luffy is simply way too agile a fighter for Mr. 1 to get the drop on particularly once he gets serious.
> 
> ...


I think we should just agree to disagree. Kinda saying the same things again now lol. The others gave pretty soild reasons for why Mr.1 wins but you just shrugged them off as well


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## Kroczilla (Mar 28, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I think we should just agree to disagree. Kinda saying the same things again now lol. The others gave pretty soild reasons for why Mr.1 wins but you just shrugged them off as well


Their reasons boiled down to "Hurr Durr LuFfy dIdn'T bReAk FrAnKY" and "LOL FMI"

I am not going those arguments seriously coz they don't deserve to be taken seriously.


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## SoldierUnofficial (Mar 28, 2021)

Luffy wins after a hard fight but will likely succumb to heavy blood loss shortly afterwards.


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## fenaker (Mar 28, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Their reasons boiled down to "Hurr Durr LuFfy dIdn'T bReAk FrAnKY" and "LOL FMI"
> 
> I am not going those arguments seriously coz they don't deserve to be taken seriously.


Because you don't have arguments for them beside it's a Pis lmao

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Soca (Mar 28, 2021)

How the hell did this go to 7 pages


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