# Yo Library, are you happy with the section?



## Naruto (Jun 24, 2012)

Hey guys.

I just wanted to get an idea of how people felt about mod coverage (yes I know I haven't done shit in months, lol), current rules of conduct and how they are enforced, or any other feedback you might have. In general, if you have a suggestion or (preferably constructive) criticism, don't be afraid to speak up. We might look into modding somebody new in the future to help out, or decide to either crack down on - or back out of, flaming occurrences.

Wouldn't it be cool to vote on how YOU think the section should be run?

Poll to come later. Maybe.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 24, 2012)

less character praising/bashing/bait threads (disguised as "discussion" or not)


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## Deshi Basara (Jun 24, 2012)

*Im happy you are mod again Naruto 

Otherwise, i haven't observed this place in months.It seems better though.*


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## Namikaze Minato (Jun 24, 2012)

The mods in KL caters to some fandoms while ignoring the others ... in other words playing favorites. 

I wish that would stop.


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## Dolohov27 (Jun 24, 2012)

It would be nice if there were less Itachi threads and Itachi solos spam. And i have agree with Namikaze Minato on some of the mods playing favorites.


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## Cord (Jun 24, 2012)

Pros: 


*Bait threads* are immediately taken care of (trashed, closed, deleted), same goes with other baitish posts.


 Mods are actually providing clarifications about several misconceptions in the manga and addressing confusion among other posters.
Cons: 

*Not all*, though. Especially in the Telegrams, there are a lot of them (bait threads).


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## Shaz (Jun 24, 2012)

Finally your back.

Again, there are too many bait threads to cause needless arguments, and a constant repetition of them, which is annoying. Prime examples are "Wank threads" or "Hate threads". I won't even state the characters which most receive such threads, as that in itself is a bait to their fandom.

It isn't so bad when such characters receive constructive threads, but when there are so many pointless, dead-end threads, there is a lack of need of even creating them. It just fills up the Library unnecessarily.

Then we have those threads which are actually _constructive_, yet biased members end up bashing it down with trolling. 

There seems to be little respect in another's opinion through argument these days too, which resorts in insults and flame. Which are often left ignored.


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## Mantux31 (Jun 24, 2012)

No more itachi wank please


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## Tenyume Kasumi (Jun 24, 2012)

I'd say the Library's pretty good, minimal problems overall. A couple of major Uchiha fanboys who can get a little over the top but nothing too major.

Keep it up, I say!


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## SaiST (Jun 24, 2012)

Thus far: Fandoms complainin' about what's happenin' on the other side of the fence.


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## Lord Valgaav (Jun 24, 2012)

No complaints over here


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## Seph (Jun 24, 2012)

It's like kindergarten over here.


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## Brox (Jun 24, 2012)

Alfred Polizzi is the best mod of this forum.


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## Melodie (Jun 24, 2012)

In my humble opinion, the section's quality have been decreasing for several of reasons, that I'd gladly list here :


_Bashing threads_

Frankly, Leaving aside the moderation of the section, I do not see why members would even make a thread regarding such a thing. I mean, this is a character which you personally dislike, it is your on opinion, why would you share this opinion in a thread? I believe that a blog would suffice regarding that.Secondly, It is even worse when you make a thread which bashes a certain character, even if it is not your opinion (I.E : Copying a wall of text/thread from another website or perhaps even a Youtube video). So, back the moderators part, I believe that they should be taking care of such threads. Because these type of threads creates a bloody storm that I am sure no one really appreciates. There is also the contingency of people using vulgar language, which would eventually result into a forum punishment.​


_Baiting threads_

These type of threads are usually made with facetious statements, regarding old topics that were originally bashing threads, or a thread that have made a  large storm because of a specific large fandom disagreements. Again, these type of threads need to be dealt. Yes, the moderators do deal with those quickly, and I'm thankful. However, there are a lot of threads that are still considered as baiting, but are not being locked.​



_Praising/Appreciation character threads_

That is basically the same thing with the bashing threads, however, it is the very opposite. But still, I do not see the point of keeping those threads, because in general, _they're mere spam threads_ to praise the characters doing in the latest chapters. every person will reply with the same reply, however, with different words.​




_Favouritism_

I'm not really in the side of people who think that the moderators are banning/preventing threads from specific fandoms, just because they hate him. But I think that the moderators are heavily strict when it comes to those threads, they moderate them more than the other threads. Now, of course they don't delete the posts/close the threads because they hate them, but because they give those threads more attention than any other thread, because of the fast replies/etc. I'm not against that, I just believe that every thread should be restricted the same.​



_Thread of the Month contest_

Yes, I do know that have happened before, but I believe that it is a great idea to bring it back to this section. Because, after all, that specific contest have brought for the Library a massive amount of quality threads, of every kind. From serious threads to humorous ones.​
___________________​

So far, these are the ones that have struck my mind, I'll add more once I think about it.​


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## Shikamaru Nara (Jun 24, 2012)

I personally, don't have anything to complain about right of the bat.Since I only take notice and/or care about threads that make sense to me or are IMO worth discussing.

But I do have a guess why this question comes up 

Moving on:

I do remember some occasions where humorous threads, especially edit threads, were deleted or moved to the landfill.One IIRC was from Nikushimi.And I didn't really understand why that happened, might have missed the explanation, possibly because of dicussuions it caused? Not sure tho cause he was banned afterwards, too IIRC.Maybe just bend the rules a bit more concerning threads that are intended to be funny.

To define the border between baiting and humour is up to you again ofc.But I assume you're already doing that  

All in all *SaiST* and *Dragonous Nesha* keep it clean as good as they possibly can, considering the fact that their opponents are outnumbering them.

And although many people are hatin on Nesha, *I* can't think of an event in which he did something unjustified - inb4kungpowhugewalloftext.


But wait!I do have one very important suggestion!Is it possible to forbid *SaiST* using:  all the time? Makes you look so arrogant man.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Jun 24, 2012)

The Library, and to an extent the Telegrams, is frequently bombarded with Itachi threads; be it wank, disguised wank, baiting, etc. There are also other topics that end up being hijacked into Itachi topics.


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## Golden Circle (Jun 24, 2012)

I think every sort of thread should be allowed. Even troll, bait and wank threads, within reason. 

*Bait threads*
Only if it is funny
 
*Troll threads*
Only if the troll does not flamebait or flame members.
 
*Wank thread*
Only if it is justified... i.e. recent action by said character in the manga.
My reasoning is that troll, bait and wank threads can easily be the funniest threads on the board _so long as it doesn't get out of hand_. However if these sorts of threads are hard to moderate already, I understand why it isn't allowed period. Wank threads should not be bannable because sometimes it is unintentional. (For example,  was a joke thread that was interpreted as a wank thread.)

I would love if we had the Theories and Park sections back though. Maybe pass a rule that if one should add [Theory] or [Joke] to the front of the thread title for threads created in the telegrams section, or else it will stay in the Library section after the Sunday dump... and perhaps get locked once it comes to a mod's attention by enforcing the rule "No Joke/Theory threads in the Library section".


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## DUNGEON (Jun 24, 2012)

I am much happy with the library. Mods doing the great work. Just keep it up.


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## Seph (Jun 24, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I think every sort of thread should be allowed. Even troll, bait and wank threads, within reason.
> 
> *Bait threads*
> Only if it is funny
> ...



Agree completely. Mods shouldn't be responsible of members acting like 2 year olds because of a petty bait thread.


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## wibisana (Jun 24, 2012)

little question
why we cant delete our own post anyway
sometime i post thing that already discussed, if i can delete my own post it would be save mods time.
and sometime mods keep those similar post


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## Jon Snow (Jun 24, 2012)

I nominate myself as a mod


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## Melodie (Jun 24, 2012)

wibisana said:


> little question
> why we cant delete our own post anyway
> sometime i post thing that already discussed, if i can delete my own post it would be save mods time.
> and sometime mods keep those similar post



. . .

You can delete your own post.

Edit → Delete → Delete options → Delete message​


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## wibisana (Jun 24, 2012)

Melodie said:


> . . .
> 
> You can delete your own post.
> 
> Edit → Delete → Delete options → Delete message​



I mean thread post that we start


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## Turrin (Jun 24, 2012)

My only qualm with the Library is that Tier list threads are banned, I realize that at times they can turn into heat arguments, but there are tons of threads types that cause more fandom wars and heated arguments than these which are allowed to be left open until they become a problem, such as the constant spamming of insert character here - wank threads claiming them to be the best around, which is just a round about, less detailed, etc... way for fandoms to tier their favorite character anyway.

It's well and good to say that the tier threads belong in the BD, but the problem is that they are also banned from the BD. So one section should actually allow them.


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## Torpedo Titz (Jun 24, 2012)

My only qualm is how almost everything is unnecessarily trashed. From outright terrible threads to those which are initially promising, but veer off-course. It's just a lazy course of action that is used to make up for the lacking numbers of Mods here.

A more productive thing would be to lock a thread and provide a reason as to why it's been locked. Nothing long, but something concise so that people can learn why their thread wasn't fit for life. Of course, this rarely happens and threads are usually graced with some copy/paste monotony that the Mods likely have saved on a Word file. And as a result, KL members will regardless create these terrible threads and proceed to spam them with as much bullshit as possible before they're trashed.

Also, when a duplicate thread is made - one in which its premise already exists in another thread - is it too hard to provide the link to this pre-existing thread before locking the currently existing thread? Not simply, ''_Durr, this thread already exists. Use the search function, hurr, even though there's a strong possibility you can't find it and I'm not going out of my way to show you how._''


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## Blue (Jun 24, 2012)

wibisana said:


> I mean thread post that we start



Maybe try thinking before pressing the "new thread" button?



> I think every sort of thread should be allowed. Even troll, bait and wank threads, within reason.


Agree with this. Outlawing HOLY SHIT X CHARACTER IS GOD threads is kind of like NO FUN ALLOWED.


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## Hiko Seijurou (Jun 24, 2012)

What happens at the Library . . . Stays at the Library.


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## IchLiebe (Jun 24, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Agree with this. Outlawing HOLY SHIT X CHARACTER IS GOD threads is kind of like NO FUN ALLOWED.



It gets annoying quick. Itachi is the main character of it too. There for a week everday there was a thread called,"Itachi's king", or around it then the first 30 post only said,"Itachi soloes." It's annoying seeing 5 or 6 threads that just say the same shit everytime. I haven't really seen any other fandom do this. 

And I say we should be able to have tier list threads.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 24, 2012)

Itachi has taken over this thread too


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## Grendel (Jun 24, 2012)

I hate coming on and trying to read a thread that I find interesting only to find out more than half the posts in it have been deleted and there is really no longer any point to the thread...

More tolerance for controversial topics would be great too as they are usually the ones that are interesting to read, follow and participate in...


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## Mako (Jun 24, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> less character praising/bashing/bait threads (disguised as "discussion" or not)



If you thought it was worse here, you should check the Society Library. Character praising is daily over there. Especially for Kenpachi and Aizen.

I like the current rules so far. It's completely fine at the moment.


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## Milliardo (Jun 24, 2012)

i think the mods do a pretty good job here. they have a tough job sorting through all these topics making sure everything is in order and they seem pretty fair to boot.

my only complaint is duplicate threads. i think there should be a list or something showing the threads that have been made like 100 times as so people don't keep bringing them up.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Jun 24, 2012)

All thread should be allowed, I don't see why not.

Have a policy, _*"If you don't like a thread, stay out of it or ignore it or don't post in it."*_



Turrin said:


> My only qualm with the Library is that Tier list threads are banned, I realize that at times they can turn into heat arguments, but there are tons of threads types that cause more fandom wars and heated arguments than these which are allowed to be left open until they become a problem, such as the constant spamming of insert character here - wank threads claiming them to be the best around, which is just a round about, less detailed, etc... way for fandoms to tier their favorite character anyway.
> 
> It's well and good to say that the tier threads belong in the BD, but the problem is that they are also banned from the BD. So one section should actually allow them.



I agree with this, I don't know why tier list was banned in the first place. Its what keep the Library active. 

If people haven't realised, NarutoBase forum have all kinds of threads and the mods are more relaxed. Here you get banned for 3 weeks for saying something like, "Don't let your hatred consume you." as a joke. lol



IchLiebe said:


> It gets annoying quick. Itachi is the main character of it too. There for a week everday there was a thread called,"Itachi's king", or around it then the first 30 post only said,"Itachi soloes." It's annoying seeing 5 or 6 threads that just say the same shit everytime. I haven't really seen any other fandom do this.
> 
> And I say we should be able to have tier list threads.



If you don't like a thread, stay out of it. You can make thousand of Kakashi thread if you want and no one would complain about it.


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## Naruto (Jun 24, 2012)

Oh cool, people actually did respond to this.

I want you to know every post is being considered but I'd like people who are talking about prevalent bait threads to either link me to some examples or pm me if you don't feel comfortable pointing your finger at fellow members.
*
P.S.:* Nobody is getting banned as a result of this. It may shape what threads we close in the future, but I'm not taking any action on anything that's happened already. I want to foster discussion, not tattling.


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## Kusa (Jun 24, 2012)

The my favorite character >>>>>> cooler then yours is getting pretty annoying.


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## Jak N Blak (Jun 24, 2012)

Allow me to call someone an idiot is obvious bait threads without consequence.


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## Seph (Jun 24, 2012)

Oh, locking threads that have been discussed before is _beyond stupid_.

1. Newer members don't get the chance to share their thoughts on things that have been discussed before.
2. Eventually, the KL degenerates to things like "Is Tenten the child of prophecy?" or "How often does Naruto use the toilet?" due to a lack of things to discuss.


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## SaiST (Jun 24, 2012)

I think the first few replies of this thread have done a pretty fine job of showing why things are done the way they are here in the Library. 



Shikamaru Nara said:


> But wait!I do have one very important suggestion!Is it possible to forbid *SaiST* using:  all the time? Makes you look so arrogant man.


Denied. 



Rainbow Dash said:


> However if these sorts of threads are hard to moderate already, I understand why it isn't allowed period.


Heh.



Seph said:


> Oh, locking threads that have been discussed before is _beyond stupid_.


We only lock topics that have been recently discussed. If a considerable amount of time has passed, and obvious effort has gone into the opening post, the thread will be allowed to thrive even if nothing new has really been brought to the table.


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## Seph (Jun 24, 2012)

SaiST said:


> I think the first few replies of this thread have done a pretty fine job of showing why things are done the way they are here in the Library.
> 
> 
> We only lock topics that have been recently discussed. If a considerable amount of time has passed, even if nothing new is brought to the table, the thread will be allowed to thrive.



Since mods have photographic memory, am I right? 

Ex: Dragonus Nesha locked a topic of mine, just saying "it was discussed before" without providing any evidence that it was. He then told me to Google it and I was able to find nothing of the sort.


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## Raiden (Jun 24, 2012)

No complaints to be honest.

A personal wish of mine was that we could get a Library pic. But I know that won't happen because of complaints.


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## SaiST (Jun 24, 2012)

Seph said:


> Since mods have photographic memory, am I right?


Don't necessarily need a photographic memory to recall a *recently* heated discussion.



> _Ex: Dragonus Nesha locked a topic of mine, just saying "it was discussed before" without providing any evidence that it was. He then told me to Google it and I was able to find nothing of the sort._


Well, that's on Nesha for not providing a link to the past discussion. And if you were unable to find anything of the sort, you should've pressed him on it, requesting that your thread be open, or restored if a recent thread couldn't be found.

Truth be told, I've done the exact same thing out of laziness a few times. Once I noticed the complaints, I decided to leave it alone unless I was willing to take the time to provide a link to the past discussion.


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## Seph (Jun 24, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Don't necessarily need a photographic memory to recall a *recently* heated discussion.
> 
> 
> Well, that's on Nesha for not providing a link to the past discussion. And if you were unable to find anything of the sort, you should've pressed him on it, requesting that your thread be open, or restored if a recent thread couldn't be found.
> ...



It's not as easy as you think if you deal with hundreds of threads a week / month. This is a large forum.

Secondly, it's not just about recalling, but surely mods can't see *every* thread that has been made or trashed within the past month (whatever you define recent).

I did push him, and requested for him to open the thread. I just got ignored like I usually do.


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## Glutamminajr (Jun 24, 2012)

First of all welcome back,Naruto. I think that this thread will be useful.



> Again, there are too many bait threads to cause needless arguments, and a constant repetition of them, which is annoying. Prime examples are "Wank threads" or "Hate threads". I won't even state the characters which most receive such threads, as that in itself is a bait to their fandom.
> 
> It isn't so bad when such characters receive constructive threads, but when there are so many pointless, dead-end threads, there is a lack of need of even creating them. It just fills up the Library unnecessarily.
> 
> ...


 

This.
It's exactly my thoughts about this situation.Less baiting/bashing/praising threads and more constructive ones.And first of all I wish less unnecessary insults from very rude people and some form of punishment for them. 

And I think it would be better to make a rule (if there is already then sorry)about the number of threads that each one of us can make(or at least someone should create only one praising thread about a character and only one bashing thread about a character and the mods should stick them in the KL or KT,in this way the sections should be less chaotic) and if it's necessary,take away the right to make threads to people that abuse it by making unnecessary rude/bashing threads,for example.

By the way I hope that this section will improve soon and some more mods will be added to the stuff to make the job a bit easier for all the current mods.


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## Crimson Flam3s (Jun 24, 2012)

I say that tier lists should be allowed even to an extent like top 20 top 10, because it makes everything more interesting, and you can just impose some "rules" to keep it from going outta hand.

Also remember asking you if I could make a thread about the best sharingan design, which was a success, but then some troll mod came in and locked it cuz it was a "generic thread" I demand that the thread is unlocked immediately

Finally:I vote for Crimson Flam3s to be a mod


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## Naruto (Jun 24, 2012)

I keep seeing mention of baiting threads but I need to know what you guys are talking about. PM me with links or just post them here so I can get a better understanding of this.


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## SaiST (Jun 24, 2012)

Seph said:


> It's not as easy as you think if you deal with hundreds of threads a week / month. This is a large forum.


I like how you're talking about it as if I haven't been dealing with it for the past six years.



> _Secondly, it's not just about recalling, but surely mods can't see *every* thread that has been made or trashed within the past month (whatever you define recent)._


Seph, if we happen to miss, or forget a similar, recent discussion, we'd have no good reason to lock down a new one, would we?



> _I did push him, and requested for him to open the thread. I just got ignored like I usually do. _


That's a shame. Did you ask anybody else?


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## Seph (Jun 24, 2012)

SaiST said:


> I like how you're talking about it as if I haven't been dealing with it for the past six years.
> 
> 
> Seph, if we happen to miss, or forget a similar, recent discussion, we'd have no good reason to lock down a new one, would we?
> ...



I'm just saying that it's impractical to lock down recent discussions because people aren't perfect and mistakes will happen, that's all.

Well, the KL only has one active mod, so there wasn't much I could do.


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## Brain Slug (Jun 24, 2012)

I don't have any complaints about the Library in the year or so since I joined.  I guess the only thing I'd complain about is the breadth of negative language in titles, especially during the past few months.  I'm sick of seeing "worst" "bad" "going downhill", etc. on every third thread.  I don't think there's much the mods should do about it, however.

On a constructive note, I agree.  Tier Lists should be part of the library.  It would give us something else to discuss and quabble about in lieu of bait, troll, and wank threads.


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## Naruto (Jun 24, 2012)

Alright, we'll consider revising the tier lists rule. If it floods the library again, we may have to reinstate it though.


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## Ezekial (Jun 24, 2012)

When mods trash threads because they were made a while back before, it's fun to bring up old topics, that's one thing I dislike, other then that i'm peachy.


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## Naruto (Jun 24, 2012)

Keep the suggestions coming. Eventually we should be able to poll it.


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## Ezekial (Jun 24, 2012)

Don't forget about my option "allowed to recreate old topics"


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## Turrin (Jun 24, 2012)

Naruto said:


> Alright, we'll consider revising the tier lists rule. If it floods the library again, we may have to reinstate it though.



Awesome, thank you.


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## SaiST (Jun 24, 2012)

Seph said:


> I'm just saying that it's impractical to lock down recent discussions because people aren't perfect and mistakes will happen, that's all.
> 
> Well, the KL only has one active mod, so there wasn't much I could do.


I'm going to assume I wasn't around enough at the time.

Anyways, that's what we have S-Mods and Admins for. Harass Naruto next time.

Naruto specifically. :B



Ezekial said:


> When mods trash threads because they were made a while back before, it's fun to bring up old topics, that's one thing I dislike, other then that i'm peachy.


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## Crimson Flam3s (Jun 24, 2012)

Naruto said:


> Alright, we'll consider revising the tier lists rule. If it floods the library again, we may have to reinstate it though.



That's great! You are the best mod


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## Naruto (Jun 24, 2012)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> That's great! You are the best mod



lol no I'm not.

It's easy to come back after a big period of inactivity and acting like a nice guy. Right now the best library mods are the people doing reports and actively doing grunt work.

Thanks anyway.


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## Jon Snow (Jun 24, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I want you to know every post is being considered



I'll hold you to this.


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## ovanz (Jun 24, 2012)

Create one big thread for every character threads, and all the new threads are merged inside each one, example:

Official Itachi/Minato/Jiraiya/Madara/Hashirama/Hiruzen/Kabuto wank threads

Official Tobi identity thread

Official Kages thread

Official Sakura bash thread

Official Teruichi is the real savior of this manga thread

etc.


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## Jak N Blak (Jun 24, 2012)

I demand BijuuMode Naruto to be in the banner of this website now.

Lol.


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## SaiST (Jun 24, 2012)

ovanz said:


> Create one big thread for every character threads, and all the new threads are merged inside each one, example:
> 
> Official Itachi/Minato/Jiraiya/Madara/Hashirama/Hiruzen/Kabuto wank threads
> 
> ...


There's already an official thread for Tobi's identity.

There are fanclubs for the rest.


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## Glutamminajr (Jun 24, 2012)

Yeah,we know.Unfortunately people don't want to understand this.


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## IchLiebe (Jun 24, 2012)

Naruto said:


> Alright, we'll consider revising the tier lists rule. If it floods the library again, we may have to reinstate it though.



Just have 1 thread for it.


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## Deshi Basara (Jun 24, 2012)

SaiST said:


> There's already an official thread for Tobi's identity.
> 
> There are fanclubs for the rest.



*Yeah.I vote for officials on the most controversial fights instead.Like Nagato vs Itachi, Bee and Naruto, Itachi vs Minato, what happened at vote between Hashi and Madara etc Although, that might more battledome topic, there's always some version of those brought up in the library like every few weeks.*


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## Naruto (Jun 24, 2012)

IchLiebe said:


> Just have 1 thread for it.



How would we structure it in a way that everyone had a say in it?


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## Almondsand (Jun 24, 2012)

I believe there should be less supervision in this section, the fact that threads are being made constantly should be looked at as a good thing. Wether it's "baiting" or "flaming" going on, it's healthy discussion. It actually make people know eachother a little bit better and get interesting debate going on. Going in to a thread I never seen before but seeing posts deleted, destroy interest in the happenings of a thread. The more Alfred Pollozi is logged on, Moderating the less interest I have in the topics that are being made. I enjoy the "wanking", "hating", "negging", "praising", and "instigating". I mean that's what people do in real life conversation and forums survive better with flexibility. I hate a place with too many rules, it stagnates thoughts that may happen at the moment, making you search around or use certain language, decreases interest in my opinion.


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## IchLiebe (Jun 24, 2012)

Naruto said:


> How would we structure it in a way that everyone had a say in it?



Make thread, let people post their list, and let people discuss who should be where. Eventually it should come down to everyone(except a few who think their favorite character is stronger) agreeing on where everyone should be. Or make the first post the tier and as the post count goes on change that one list to what the majority agrees on.


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## Seph (Jun 24, 2012)

Itachi should get his own subforum.


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## Slayer (Jun 24, 2012)

Seph should get his own section for edits and stuff. In fact make Seph a mod.


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## Almondsand (Jun 24, 2012)

Posts should not be deleted in a topic that is spawning great interest, it kills the momentum of people visiting the section.


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## King Scoop (Jun 24, 2012)

Yea tier lists should be brought back. Actually I don't think any threads should be banned as long as they make a valid point and they have to do with what's going on in the manga. If too many people are making the same threads then just merge them.



Naruto said:


> I keep seeing mention of baiting threads but I need to know what you guys are talking about. PM me with links or just post them here so I can get a better understanding of this.



Given most of the people complaining about it, they have to be talking about Itachi threads. The last few weeks the manga has basically been the Itachi show. So of course the library has had more and more threads about Itachi. But his storyline is almost up so, it'll settle down soon.


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## GKY (Jun 24, 2012)

Threads get closed way too easily. I remember making a joke thread once about Tobi being Jiraiya which got locked pretty quickly. Aside from that everything is okay.


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## Grendel (Jun 24, 2012)

Almondsand said:


> Posts should not be deleted in a topic that is spawning great interest, it kills the momentum of people visiting the section.



This I agree with....hate seeing a thread I think will have a good discussion only to find out most of the posts have been deleted...plenty of times I come on see a few threads I like only to lose interest and log off cause of it...

Kills interest in a thread that otherwise would have a good discussion even if it got sorta intense...people should be allowed to be passionate about things they care about defending or discussing...


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## Turrin (Jun 24, 2012)

Naruto said:


> How would we structure it in a way that everyone had a say in it?


I honestly think Tier list should have it's own sub-forum like the KC, where Mods select one credible tier list from the posters (You can use the one in my sig if you like), which becomes the basis for the Forum's tier list. Than once that Tier list is posted, people who wish to discuss changing the placement of certain characters on the list, can make their own threads in the Sub-forum to discuss that character (For Example: Sakura should be moved up from C Tier to B Tier, Discuss) & if there is a good amount of activetly than at the end of the month the sub-forum will vote in those threads & present the voted tally to a mod or someone assigned to be in charge and the changes are made to the tier list. 

And just have it continue on that way.

Granted that is just what I think would make the most sense, but if that's too much to ask for than I still think tier list should be allowed in the Library though it would kind of be hard to keep it all in one thread.


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## Prince Vegeta (Jun 24, 2012)

i like the library section its what i visit the most


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## LostSelf (Jun 24, 2012)

Seph said:


> Itachi should get his own subforum.



Agree.

There wouldn't be no people bringing Itachi to other threads and basically saying "Itachi is stronger, i can't hear you i can't hear you and i don't care about logic". This fandom should have it's own subforum.

Seriously, without trying to insult anyone.


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## KingIceCold (Jun 24, 2012)

Going by the quality of threads, no. Though there really is no point in asking for improvement because going by some posts, it really wouldn't change much. Providing subsections, being more lenient or strict will just spawn more complaints no matter what. 

This is likely due to poor management (any changes to the management style won't improve anything; so rebooting, changing policies or whatever...  it won't work), and the disadvantage of being one of the most active forums for this series. 

Tbh, y'all should just keep doing what you're doing. Maybe just be harsher on trolls and such. Particularly Itachi threads which (if you compare to other forums) is a real problem here. Tho the issue may be solved by handling some notable trouble makers.


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## WT (Jun 24, 2012)

Naruto, you should have a thread which posts links to the best threads created and have this stickied.

First of all, this would improve the section for lurkers who will have a quick and accessible route to the best threads.

It would also remind others what good threads are.

Have prizes for these as well.

I'm aware this used to happen some time ago and am not too sure why this idea was scrapped.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 24, 2012)

Welcome back, Naruto.

As for improvement...I think the main problem stems from Itachi threads. Its come to the point where they are baiting threads for non-Itachi fans. A solution would be, I think, a big Itachi support thread and banning the creation of other Itachi threads. Said Itachi thread (which would be stickied) would have to be HEAVILY monitored so it doesn't get out of hand.


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## WT (Jun 24, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Welcome back, Naruto.
> 
> As for improvement...I think the main problem stems from Itachi threads. Its come to the point where they are baiting threads for non-Itachi fans. A solution would be, I think, a big Itachi support thread and banning the creation of other Itachi threads. Said Itachi thread (which would be stickied) would have to be HEAVILY monitored so it doesn't get out of hand.



No, Itachi doesn't deserves a thread, he deserves a subsection 

Seriously, people tend to make threads because they want to be noticed, some of them are genuinely good threads and lumping everything together would be a tragedy.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 24, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> No, Itachi doesn't deserves a thread, he deserves a subsection
> 
> Seriously, people tend to make threads because they want to be noticed, some of them are genuinely good threads and lumping everything together would be a tragedy.


The good threads are very few and far between. Especially now.


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## Drums (Jun 24, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> less character praising/bashing/bait threads (disguised as "discussion" or not)



This here. Otherwise, I dont have anything more to contribute, critique-wise.


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## DremolitoX (Jun 24, 2012)

I agree with everyone else. Itachi should get his own subsection.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 24, 2012)

Please, make sure to search before creating a new thread to avoid . Thanks.

Trashing.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 24, 2012)

...except Alfred Polizzi, a mod, Naruto specifically created this topic.


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## Lishenron (Jun 24, 2012)

Thrashing a topic created by a Super Moderator?

Lol don't see that too often


Edit:LOL FUNNY  Joke is funny!


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## SaiST (Jun 24, 2012)

Guys, it was a joke.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Jun 24, 2012)

Itachi, Tier List, Edit Threads - Should all get their own sub-section.


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## Lishenron (Jun 24, 2012)

Aren't jokes supposed to be funny?


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## DremolitoX (Jun 24, 2012)

That was sad(can't really elabotate without insulting anyone)


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## On and On (Jun 24, 2012)

kill the teenie boopers

i miss when this shit has theories - adequate, properly typed, and well-cited ones

library is HoU all over again and has been for a while


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## WT (Jun 24, 2012)

Esponer, I can see you lurking around.

Why don't you return as a mod?


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## Lishenron (Jun 24, 2012)

DremolitoX said:


> That was sad(can't really elabotate without insulting anyone)


That's because elabotate isn't a word. So obviously you wouldn't be able to do that 

Edit: As for the topic? No not really. Way way way too many troll threads. Though I blame  that more on the users who come here, rather than the mods.


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## DremolitoX (Jun 24, 2012)

Lishenron said:


> That's because elabotate isn't a word. So obviously you wouldn't be able to do that



jesus. i'm eating and typing with 1 hand here


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## PureWIN (Jun 24, 2012)

Controversial characters like Itachi, Minato, Hiruzen, etc. should get their sub-forum. Especially Itachi.


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## SaVaGe609 (Jun 24, 2012)

ITACHI IS TEARING THIS SECTION APART!!!!!

Just kidding. He tore it apart a long time ago


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## Fatal Warrior (Jun 24, 2012)

lol @ creating a sub-forum for Itachi. 

If you do that, members of other fandoms will start copying Itachi fanatics in order to get their own sub-forum. Isn't there like fanclubs already with that purpose?



Turrin said:


> I honestly think Tier list should have it's own sub-forum like the KC, where Mods select one credible tier list from the posters (You can use the one in my sig if you like), which becomes the basis for the Forum's tier list. Than once that Tier list is posted, people who wish to discuss changing the placement of certain characters on the list, can make their own threads in the Sub-forum to discuss that character (For Example: Sakura should be moved up from C Tier to B Tier, Discuss) & if there is a good amount of activetly than at the end of the month the sub-forum will vote in those threads & present the voted tally to a mod or someone assigned to be in charge and the changes are made to the tier list.
> 
> And just have it continue on that way.
> 
> Granted that is just what I think would make the most sense, but if that's too much to ask for than I still think tier list should be allowed in the Library though it would kind of be hard to keep it all in one thread.



I think this is one of, if not the, best suggestion made. That way, the library would be only for actual theories and an occasional (I repeat, occasional) fun thread.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Jun 24, 2012)

Itachi need to get its own sub-section as soon as possible. Just look at this thread, its turning into another Itachi thread.


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## Kathutet (Jun 24, 2012)

i am not satisfied with mod coverage at all
for example, at least 30% of my body is not covered by yours

i am a sad man, now
come hither sage child


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## Naruto (Jun 24, 2012)

Kenneth said:


> i am not satisfied with mod coverage at all
> for example, at least 30% of my body is not covered by yours
> 
> i am a sad man, now
> come hither sage child



pek pek pek


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## mlc818 (Jun 24, 2012)

I think mods will occasionally (though perhaps unintentionally) trash or lock threads that they personally feel have been overdone or qualify as baiting some group of fans, and I don't think that's very helpful.

Personally, I believe any speech should be allowed, so I'd really only advocate moderation of threads that veer into "hate speech" or topics with no actual relation to the manga. 

The entire idea of moderation applied to the ideas that are expressed by posters is kind of a joke, and hardly beneficial in any effective sense.  Threads that people find stupid or fascinating will naturally move up or down based upon the volume of responses, so moderation of on topic threads really isn't necessary beyond eliminating intentionally & unnecessarily abusive posts.


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## Almondsand (Jun 24, 2012)

Damn Itachi is soloing the thread lol.. I seen him in posts at least 10 times this is officially an Itachi baiting thread. Get his own sub-forums :3

Honestly, I think you guys do an ok job, the problem I have most notably is the deletion/trashing of posts and threads. Keeping input in is better than keeping it out or erasing it out. I want to be able to see everyone views no matter how unpopular, trolling, wordy, etc.. This should be a place with less supervision and censoring, the personalities here should be able to flourish, as there is so much personality present.


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## Majin Lu (Jun 24, 2012)

I have a suggestion:

- Threads that contain news would be sticky threads for, at least, 1 week. Examples: Kishimoto's interviews, new volume's cover and its release date revealed, etc.


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## momma bravo (Jun 24, 2012)

*+1 support for itachi subforum.* yeah yeah, "maybe other fandoms will start becoming attention whores to get their own subforum" but, my god, i think it is at the point where *ALMOST EVERY SINGLE* thread in the KL has at least one "itachi solos x character" or "" sometimes i will admit that it is funny, but most of the time the itachi wank around here is incredibly disheartening. it's like a bad, forced meme.

i also support bringing back the Thread of the Month competitions. there used to be some high-class quality threads (both on the humorous side _and _on the serious, theoretical side), but now *most* (not all) of the threads consist of borderline battledome baiting, or rehashed and repetitive ideas, or threads with misleading, youtube-esque "eye-grabbing" titles yet pure nonsensical content.
maybe ToTM competitions isn't the best solution, but i have noticed that since it's absence creativity and thought has seemed to dwindle _significantly_.

the mod styles seem to fluctuate a lot, so for the most part i'd say i'm pleased. i just hope it never gets back to the state it was a few months ago when it seemed like _everybody_ was getting banned for _anything_.

k, i'll also try to think of more solutions instead of just complaints, but thanks a lot for asking.


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## Summers (Jun 25, 2012)

ovanz said:


> Create one big thread for every character threads, and all the new threads are merged inside each one, example:
> 
> Official Itachi/Minato/Jiraiya/Madara/Hashirama/Hiruzen/Kabuto wank threads
> 
> ...





PureWIN said:


> Controversial characters like Itachi, Minato, Hiruzen, etc. should get their sub-forum. Especially Itachi.



Most people have said already, the reason I dont like them is because, so many others actually do. Those type of threads suck up everything, when I started getting active in posting, I set out what type of member I would be, I would post theories, interesting stuff that would be different from the wank. Really I did, check 80% all theories, the rest was alternate views on characters feelings; for one I believe all of Naruto's friends are using him and are betraying him.

That doesn't matter though, because threads like that get 13 posts tops and get ignored, and people have posted some really great stuff, Crazy Aries ShinZangetsu, check the old thread of the month nominees and winners, some others who have stopped posting threads. 

Are the Topics that boring? No, but why talk about Characters studies that dont involve bashing or power when we can determine the strength of prime Hirzun healthy Itachi and Pre Zombie Madara, or ask why Minato is so Damn awesome.

I get it, Itachi is really really strong and Minato is super duper skilled. Please I really do understand, dont tell me anymore. I get it, Tobi is a hybrid of every character in the manga with the same hairstyle.

If we have official versions of those threads, that are maintained; it will clean things up I think the Tobi identity thread did a good job of that. _Oh its so great the 6th coffin was revealed._ 

This is important as when a New Members comes to KL and checks things out they will be influenced by it, or if they post a thread, get 5 posts before it dies, they will come to the obvious conclusion "They dont want to talk about this...Lets see what they want to talk about and see if I can add anything" They check and will see 6 Itachi threads, 4 Madara threads, a Sakura sucks threads, and the rest about powerlevels and how great x character is. Well lets say I am sure what they will be posting about in the future.

Then again people are free to do what they want, that's what they want to talk about then OK, I for one am joining in, why spend time making a essay of a thread when I can talk 4 sentences Madara not living up to the hype. I'm ranting a bit, while I have the chance. More official threads. Honeslty if anyone thinks for a second that an Itachi subforum would not get traffic then they need to reconsider "Itachi Library" would be like the telegrams on the first day of new chapter, everyday. DO IT.


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## Golden Circle (Jun 25, 2012)

While I am a bit of Itachi fan on the side, even I know that the Itachi subforum idea is going to go nowhere. Blender would be faster than that.

On another note, Telegrams Picture Suggestion Thread please? Mentioning here because it is a subforum (sort of) of the Library.


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## Undead (Jun 25, 2012)

The library is doing overall alright in my book. I just wish I'd see less Minato / Itachi wanking & wars. It gets out of hand sometimes.


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## Hossaim (Jun 25, 2012)

Tier list threads should be allowed. Crack down on Itachi bashing.


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## Tifa (Jun 25, 2012)

There are too many character bashing/wanking threads, right now they are mostly about Itachi.


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## Golden Circle (Jun 25, 2012)

To be fair, wanking threads haven't only been about Itachi. iirc Pain at his peak was wanked way more than Itachi currently is. Give it a week or two and Itachi wanking will die off. imo popular characters tend to be wanked everywhere on the net; it can't be stopped, only suppressed. And suppression is never part of a forum that is active. So I guess someone needs to come up with a brainwave for a solution to this "problem".

My opinion on this subject: threads shouldn't be banned just because a particular fandom doesn't like them. That is all.


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## Tifa (Jun 25, 2012)

^I get what you're saying and I like Itachi but I just wish people would stop making the same threads all the time, that is all.


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## Golden Circle (Jun 25, 2012)

^ Same here. Thankfully DN keeps a lid on the outright wanking threads. I have nothing against a thread that legitimately praises a character however.


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## Dat Uchiha Itachi (Jun 25, 2012)

Seph said:


> Itachi should get his own subforum.





SlayerOfGoku said:


> Seph should get his own section for edits and stuff. In fact make Seph a mod.



This. Make it happen


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## JPongo (Jun 25, 2012)

I agree in making an Itachi subforum.

Right under the landfill section.

So the rest of us more unbiased posters can post in peace.

LOL.


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## Ghost (Jun 25, 2012)

Make me the mod of library and justice will happen.


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## principito (Jun 25, 2012)

Namikaze Minato said:


> The mods in KL caters to some fandoms while ignoring the others ... in other words playing favorites.
> 
> I wish that would stop.



This shit happens a lot.....

Some posters post threads with no purpose and just bait people into meaningless discussion and they dont get punished... but everybody that's drawn into the argument is.


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## boohead (Jun 25, 2012)

Itachi's fanbase ruining alot of threads and section with their mindless spam.  Yeah maybe alot of it supposed to be a running joke or sarcasm, but dozens of threads and posts every second is a bit stupid


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## Chibason (Jun 25, 2012)

I read the entire thread and can agree with a lot of what's been said. 

Tier threads should be considered to be allowed again, and informative threads should be stickied perhaps.

...What I don't agree with is condoning Itachi hate in any form. Imho, the haters in this section are a lot more troublesome than the overzealous fans.

Allow wank threads to go a few pages before closing and reprimand the ones who pop in just to be hateful/flamebaiting. 

The section Mods, Nesha and SaiST, do a great job but could possibly use another hand. They delete posts/close threads/ban in a fair manner from what I've observed. Furthermore, they're both quite knowledgable regarding not only the Naruto manga but related subjects as well. Keep up the good work, fellas 

@Naruto-This thread should be helpful. Thanks for caring


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## WT (Jun 25, 2012)

There should be a separate sub forum called "Character Discussion" while Konoha Library would serve as a place for more general threads as well as theories/predictions. Sometimes, there are threads made about a specific character that would also fall within the General part of the Library rules. For these, a request could be made to the mods who upon review would move the thread to the general side of the library.


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## Naruto (Jun 25, 2012)

I sincerely doubt an Itachi subforum has any sort of feasibility to it. Sorry to shoot that idea down but it's just not going to happen and I'd rather not get anyone's hopes up.


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## KAKASHI10 (Jun 25, 2012)

KAKASHI10 will give his POV

1- Mods need to have a tier list of the members. But because of that, it does not mean they will guide themself only because of it. They will read the thread and have an objective view. 
Tier list will help them say naaa let me let him go with this one, or smh again closing. 
The mods need to know who are the users that post, their pattern, etc. in the forum.


2- About closing I made a thread about sushi back, that could be a boomerang, someone said could be a strap. But then looking at it im still with the boomerang. When I go back guess what "its close"

So I expect that to be open again and me be notify or been bump to the front so I know is not close. Also 

3- When closing a thread write why it is closed.

4- You guys need more MODS. As simple as that. 

5- I know there are threads and members that are special, but this is a community. For example everytime I see a senjuclan thread I know he is bashing the 3erd, even doo is delusional as hell, do I neg him? NO I just like the luz of his difference of opinion. When I see a turrin thread, I know is going to be long as fuck and bashing Itachi. Do I neg him? NO, Do I read it,  only if Im bored as fuck. But to his behave he have been posting shoter replys and threads and I have agree in some of them. Also everyone in the forums you ask about me they will say this GRAMMAR   AND Kakashi and Itachi. Talking about Itachi, when I read that he tank galactus,RS,HEMAN,HERCULES,SUPERMAN,ETC. I do not agree, but I enjoy the luz of delusion. As so many other people also 

So you see even if you disagree and have different POV we can get alone. 
And wee need different types of threads. 

6- Also some threads are serious and for some reason some people take as a joke thread and it goes down the hill. So the owner of the thread should be able to say OK, lets go that route or say guys fuck off.

7- Itachi subforums would be good, but at the same time others will say foul play.

8- What she said at the begining :



Majin Lu said:


> I have a suggestion:
> 
> - Threads that contain news would be sticky threads for, at least, 1 week. Examples: Kishimoto's interviews, new volume's cover and its release date revealed, etc.


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## Almondsand (Jun 25, 2012)

^You should change the title of this forum section to Itachi's Library


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## Turrin (Jun 25, 2012)

The way I see it is the 

Telegrams should = what it is right now a discuss of thee recent chapter to avoid spoiling anything

Library should = a place to discuss events that happened in recent chapters, I.E. the last 5-10 chapters, every other thread should be banned. This would stop all the character wank threads, which are just rehashes of X character did Y thing in chapter 403 so he's amazing, it would also stop all the other constant rehashed threads we see in the library.

You might say but wait Turrin, than how are we going to discuss stuff like pairings, theories, which characters underrated/overrated, or character studies, etc... & here's my answer: 

Pairings already have a sub form in the house of Uzamaki & that's where character study threads and what not should go as well. Which characters are underrated or overrated can be discussed in a sub forum of the library which I have suggested for Tier lists which can be seen in this post I made:


While Theory threads should also get their own subforum like they used to have back in the old days, which I found increased the quality of the theories as well as the posts in response to them, because anyone who came into the subforum really wanted to talk theories & I'm not sure why the theories subforum was ever close in the first place.

So there would be places to talk about all of these things, but in a more organized setting with better established rules for each subforum. Instead of all of this stuff cluttering the Library making it one big jumbled mess of different types of threads & on top of that we'd eliminate a-lot of the spamming of wank threads, since people could not simply just post shit like Minato solo's all he's the greaterst or Itachi's Kunai skills would own anyone. If they wished to discuss Itachi or Minato skills they would ether have to:

A) Make a Thread in the Tier List Subforum saying, "I think Itachi or Minato should be moved up to X Tier Discuss"

B) Make a Character Study Thread or Something Similar in the House of Uzamaki saying something like, "Itachi or Minato are well written characters due to such and such reason"

C) Only Make threads that are reactions to events in the latest chapters in the Library, I.E. "Itachi or Minato are amazing just think about what they did in the recent chapters"

D) Make a thread in the theories subforum saying, "I think Itachi or Minato have the ability to do X or will do Y, & here's why"

It wouldn't eliminate wankings entirely, but it will eliminate some of the more ridiculous wanking and it would spread out the more reasonable wanking between 4 Sections which would prevent any section from being totally cluster fucked by it.


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## Deshi Basara (Jun 25, 2012)

Turrin said:


> The way I see it is the
> 
> Telegrams should = what it is right now a discuss of thee recent chapter to avoid spoiling anything
> 
> ...



*Completely agreed with Turrin *


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## C-Moon (Jun 25, 2012)

Hand out more bans and be done with it.


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## Burning_Neoxor (Jun 25, 2012)

Turrin said:


> The way I see it is the
> 
> Telegrams should = what it is right now a discuss of thee recent chapter to avoid spoiling anything
> 
> ...


I endorse this plan.


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## Naruto (Jun 25, 2012)

We used to have a theories section and a joke section a nobody used it :S


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## Zenith (Jun 25, 2012)

At times I read a chapter in which Itachi puts some dude in the bottle(or another X character like Kakashi for example),but if I dare post a thread were we can wank him,with no baits or other bullshit(like I give a darn about baiting folks Lol) the thread is going ot the landfill with the motherfucking velocity of light

Mods here shouldn't be killing the fun for the posters,that's not their job,their here to moderate,not banish freedom

The only thing they should be wary of and use the iron arm in,is pointless flaming(but ironically they already do that and extend bans overzealously)

The user Seph comes to mind to me,as he used to post hilarious edit threads,but what happened? He lost the ability to make threads because X fandom felt mocked

Like seriously?

Come on folks,you you can do better


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## Ubereem (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm currently happy with the Library, control the itachi bandwagon.


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## principito (Jun 25, 2012)

Turrin said:


> The way I see it is the
> 
> Telegrams should = what it is right now a discuss of thee recent chapter to avoid spoiling anything
> 
> ...



I think this is a very good idea....

couple modifications here and there but this is a very good foundation


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## Kakashi Hatake (Jun 25, 2012)

Library doesn't need to many sub forum. It will be to much.

1 Sub Forum for the tier list and theory is all it needs. If there is too many, people won't post in them.

I personally think the tier lists should be in the battledome section. I don't know it's banned there as well.


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## Revolution (Jun 25, 2012)

I agree with Rainbow Dash.  I have made a thread or two about distaste for a certain character, not just do rant, but to attempt to make sense of what happened so far in the Naruto Story.  I want people's responses.  

When a thread gets out of hand, its time to close the thread. This has been done successfuly most of the time. Someone in particular was banned for a similiar thread to mine because it was trolled to death.  Please close the thread before it gets out of hand instead.

Edit:  Also agree with Lt Iceman

Give a reason for trashing a thread, or give the user a day to change the title if you disagree with it. I took a picture of the poster for Snow White and the Huntsman as it was a picture of the evil queen with a crow covering her left eye, just like Shisui had a crow covering his left eye. The thread was trashed and I don't know why.


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## Revolution (Jun 25, 2012)

*Itachi*

I need to point out to all the people who want to make Itachi wank and/or bash threads need to remember that the last several chapters of Naruto was about Itachi.  The reason he has been talked about so much is because he was what was going on in Naruto.

*Please don't make a seperate thread for a trending character.*


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 25, 2012)

Itachi is dying/dissapearing - literally

he'll be gone real soon and you'll be able to calm your tits down 

the wank will die off within a week or two


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## Seph (Jun 25, 2012)

Itachi soloes yet again...


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## God (Jun 25, 2012)

can we ban itashit threads? is that a thing up for debate? ok cool.


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## Gilgamesh (Jun 25, 2012)

Ban all Itachi and Minato fans

Section improves 100x


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 25, 2012)

of course, every friend will start wanking Madara or someone else 100x more to compensate


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## Almondsand (Jun 25, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> of course, every friend will start wanking Madara or someone else 100x more to compensate


What character? And to compensate for what?


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## CrazyAries (Jun 25, 2012)

I am really not interested in tier lists, but I acknowledge how popular they are among members in the KL.  I would like to co-sign Turrin's ideas for establishing and organizing these kinds of threads.

I also like the idea to give a subsection for edit threads, but I'm not sure if there would be enough edits to justify it.  

In the same vein, while the idea of Thread of the Month is and was nice and it brought some extra attention to serious topics, but there was not enough participation in the nominating and voting process for that contest to continue.  For those who want to see more threads that deal with theories and character studies, I would suggest that more of you post in those threads.  I get *summers*' points and ? certainly ? new members may take cues from the threads that are the most popular.  Sure, the mods could merge some repetitive topics or lock or trash them, but that will not keep other discussions from ending prematurely.

Right now, my major complaints concern the amount of baiting, bashing, and wanking the goes on, but some of that is handled quite well by the mods.  I actually understand if one character is praised after a good showing in the current chapter, so I have no problems with that on principle, unless the threads are repetitive.  Official threads for that have been made in the Telegrams section.

About the idea to make one subsection for one character in particular:  No, just no.  That would only serve to increase the acrimony in this section if one character was shown that much favor structurally in this forum and there is always the Fanclubs section.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 25, 2012)

funny how most *complaints * are about itachi *wank* threads  

bait threads should be closed a lot sooner though


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## kzk (Jun 25, 2012)

It's fine.


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## shibunari (Jun 25, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> I need to point out to all the people who want to make Itachi wank and/or bash threads need to remember that the last several chapters of Naruto was about Itachi.  The reason he has been talked about so much is because he was what was going on in Naruto.
> 
> *Please don't make a seperate thread for a trending character.*



Exactly!

people have reasons for all this Itachi wank threads, the war was basically to show us Itachi's awesomeness (and Madara)
so wanks gonna wank , and haters gonna hate!

soon the focus of manga will change, as well as the focus the threads!


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## Raiden (Jun 25, 2012)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> Hand out more bans and be done with it.



I disagree with this proposal .


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## Evil (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm kind of disappointed that there isn't a sticky thread dedicated to how awesome I am. 

I don't feel like these changes that are being proposed would be beneficial to the forum. Wank and bait threads will always exist and are probably one of the reasons people still post in this forum, conflict breeds creativity. And creating subforums will only create a bunch of dead forums, not make a bunch of clean and active forums.

I'd also like to point out that what constitutes a wank and bait thread is highly subjective, and moderation of them is difficult, often a person will post a thread and genuinely believe their thread is benign when it's just a honey pot of troll juice. 

The other issue I have is that even if we made the library only include threads that deal with the last 5-10 chapters, it'd still be very easy to connect those chapters to older ones and create wank threads based on them. Especially given the amount of flashbacks and new feats being introduced every 3 chapters.


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## shintebukuro (Jun 25, 2012)

I think we should be able to distinguish between comparing characters through hypothetical battles vs. a general interpretation of manga context.

For instance, a few weeks ago a User made a thread questioning the long-held beliefs --mockingly, of course; he never believed it-- that Nagato must be stronger than Hashirama/Madara because he has the Rinnegan.

The thread was important because we needed to argue about the concept of someone possessing a Rinnegan being able to be weaker than someone with a "lesser" doujutsu, which is the case for Nagato and EMS Madara. It was a matter of interpreting different "levels" the author is implementing, and how to rationalize it all.

But the thread got locked because "Vs. threads belong in the Battledome." *We should be able to argue who is stronger than who and have it not be based on hypothetical battles*. I support the idea of creating a subforum for Tier lists.


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## Jizznificent (Jun 25, 2012)

unban our fellow nagato fans: munboy dracule obrian, googleplex and or mister. the library isn't the same without them him.


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## Seraphiel (Jun 26, 2012)

Jizznificent said:


> unban our fellow nagato fans: munboy dracule obrian, googleplex and or mister. the library isn't the same without them him.



Wait mister is banned and people like Jpogo and Camora are allowed to post?

There you have your answer what to do Naruto.


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## shibunari (Jun 26, 2012)

Alfred Polizzi, just reminded me of one thing that needs to change in KL.
mods that delete comments needlessly!

I hate to go into a thread and see that half the comments were deleted, and often without reason ... or better said,  the reason is that the mod does not agree with you, it really pisses me off.

for me they delete comments  for fun, just like a hooby.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Jun 26, 2012)

Often times those posts distract from the actual topic. If you're ever unsure about why a post was deleted, you can ask.

And I don't really delete posts just because I disagree with them.


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## Dr. White (Jun 26, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> less character praising/bashing/bait threads (disguised as "discussion" or not)



this
10char


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## Xerces (Jun 26, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> less character praising/bashing/bait threads (disguised as "discussion" or not)



I don't see what's wrong with 'character praising'. I don't see how discussing one's favourite characters of the manga, _in_ the manga related section of the forum, can be perceived in a negative light. 

Nobody is forcefully subjected their viewpoints unto anyone. If you don't like how certain threads are structured, then simply don't read them. The moderators of this section should adopt this viewpoint, and start facilitating _tolerance_ of viewpoints, rather than practicing hand-holding because a few over-sensitive members.


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## KevKev (Jun 26, 2012)

It's fine!

It just needs more Edit Threads


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## Haloman (Jun 26, 2012)

Honestly, I've been here for years, and the KL has always seemed relatively the same to me. You'll get your wank threads, you'll get your crazy threads, your intelligent threads, etc.

If I had any complaints, it's that I don't understand why some threads get closed. It seems like the mod who closes the particular thread didn't want the subject to be discussed.


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## eyeknockout (Jun 26, 2012)

wish there was a way to still see deleted posts, just to be able to read what was going on in a thread and why half the posts were deleted

ban members who refuse to listen to reason more. it makes no sense when an OP makes a thread and every member disagrees yet the OP continues to talk about how he knows the manga better.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 26, 2012)

I believe it has gotten better lately. Don't know if it had anything to do with massive complaints about harsh rulership or not but somethings have changed. Mods seem to be less 'visible' which is nice.



shintebukuro said:


> I think we should be able to distinguish between comparing characters through hypothetical battles vs. a general interpretation of manga context.
> 
> For instance, a few weeks ago a User made a thread questioning the long-held beliefs --mockingly, of course; he never believed it-- that Nagato must be stronger than Hashirama/Madara because he has the Rinnegan.
> 
> ...




I wholeheartedly agree.


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## Golden Circle (Jun 26, 2012)

I don't think that there will be enough material for an entire subforum dedicated to tier lists. I think one thread in the Library would be sufficient for it. After all it is only one subject and/or particular way/method of interpreting the story.

Mind you I am not entirely against the idea of a subforum to clean certain things out of the Library; but an entire subforum needs a lot more material to keep itself active and sufficiently large than just who is more powerful than who.


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## shintebukuro (Jun 26, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> I don't think that there will be enough material for an entire subforum dedicated to tier lists. I think one thread in the Library would be sufficient for it. After all it is only one subject and/or particular way/method of interpreting the story.
> 
> Mind you I am not entirely against the idea of a subforum to clean certain things out of the Library; but an entire subforum needs a lot more material to keep itself active and sufficiently large than just who is more powerful than who.



It wouldn't really be a subforum dedicated to arguing tiers as much as it would be a subforum dedicated to arguing _Who's stronger than Who_, which would have endless material...


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## Yuna (Jun 26, 2012)

* If possible, the ability to change thread names.
* Less tolerance when it comes to duplicate threads. Just because two threads are nominally different, it doesn't mean they don't belong as a single thread. Merge more threads. We had 4 threads paying tribute to the "I Will Always Love You" line in the Telegrams for hours.
* No tolerance for people posting threads that no place in the Library (or Telegrams). People who post about filler crap (anime, games, whatever) in the Library/Telegrams or people who post threads which belong in the Library in Telegrams. The latter threads are often not moved probably because the mods figure they'll be automatically moved at the end of the week, anyway.
* Less tolerance for users whose signatures clearly break the rules. I see people running around with signatures whose heights violate the rules all the time and they are allowed to continue using those sigs until I just have enough and report them. The mods should be doing themselves this without common users having to police the sigs and compare sizes (I do so by Print Screening and then pasting the picture into Paint to check signature sizes).


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## Almondsand (Jun 26, 2012)

Take away Alfred Polizzi position of mod.

Stop the deletion/closing of posts and threads.

Give Itachi a sub-forum, seriously he gets 5 threads a day and 25 on the day of a new chapter, so he always have subject matter.


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## Seph (Jun 26, 2012)

DN's going on his little post deleting frenzy even here.

Don't you guys think that's just wrong? It's just like censoring and not allowing people to say what they want to say and express their opinions.


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## Golden Circle (Jun 26, 2012)

Ok, just one thing:

I liked the Library & Telegrams section of old before Hiro started the trend of deleting posts and trashing predictions threads. One man's spam is another man's treasure.


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## SaiST (Jun 26, 2012)

If we feel a post is going to detract from the topic at hand, we'll delete it. If a string of deleted posts that have nothing to do with the topic is enough to kill your interest in it, I surmise you had little interest in it to begin with.

Still find it humorous that individuals known for riling folks up are basically asking the mods to do nothing while they have free reign.

Do any of you actually recall the number of complaints about spam, particularly in the Predictions threads, before the staff took measures to prevent it?


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## Jeαnne (Jun 26, 2012)

its really good now. I remember when i used to get banned every week for derailing the predictions thread like a retard, but later things started to feel...complicated, mainly when we got limited to two threads in the telegrams. Now its all good, we have the convo thread and the predictions thread, and here in the library i dont see nazi mods banning everybody, so i guess that people are not scared of trying some threads now


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## Seph (Jun 26, 2012)

SaiST said:


> If we feel a post is going to detract from the topic at hand, we'll delete it. If a string of deleted posts that have nothing to do with the topic is enough to kill your interest in it, I surmise you had little interest in it to begin with.
> 
> Still find it humorous that *individuals known for riling folks up* are basically asking the mods to do nothing while they have free reign.
> 
> Do any of you actually recall the number of complaints about spam, particularly in the Predictions threads, before the staff took measures to prevent it?





> 8. ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM
> 
> Description: An argument that attempts to disprove the truth of what is asserted by *attacking the speaker rather than the speaker's argument. *Another way of putting it: Fallacy where you attack someone's character instead of dealing with salient issues. There are two basic types of ad hominem arguments: (1) abusive, and (2) circumstantial.



Why did you guys even make this thread if you're going to reject our opinions simply because of our post histories?

Secondly, why are we to blame if members here act like 2 year olds? I have never made a thread in which I insulted a fandom and/or a person, yet I was permanently banned from making topics simply because my Itachi wank topics tended to make the haters angry. Why should I be responsible for how members act?

If you don't care about our opinions, then don't even ask, because this entire topic seems like a show to act like you care to curry favor with the members.


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## Golden Circle (Jun 26, 2012)

One of the most frustrating things in the past was when the predictions thread would naturally lead to discussion of past chapters and how they related to the spoilers, and it would get trashed or lots of posts deleted for "off topic". Because to me a subject that is one degree of seperation away from the spoilers isn't really off-topic. Anyway, thankfully extreme deletion sprees like that doesn't seem to happen now.

I think my memory is getting jaded and distorted by time here, so I'll stop.





SaiST said:


> If we feel a post is going to detract from the topic at hand, we'll delete it. If a string of deleted posts that have nothing to do with the topic is enough to kill your interest in it, I surmise you had little interest in it to begin with.


But new chapter agony is so sweet to watch!!!



> Still find it humorous that individuals known for riling folks up are basically asking the mods to do nothing while they have free reign.


Hey, I'm not that sort of person!



> Do any of you actually recall the number of complaints about spam, particularly in the Predictions threads, before the staff took measures to prevent it?


I only remember  spamming threads. The rest was simply chapter waiting agony IIRC, which I for one have never had a problem with.


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## SaiST (Jun 26, 2012)

Seph said:


> Why did you guys even make this thread if you're going to reject our opinions simply because of our post histories?
> 
> Secondly, why are we to blame if members here act like 2 year olds? I have never made a thread in which I insulted a fandom and/or a person, yet I was permanently banned from making topics simply because my Itachi wank topics tended to make the haters angry. Why should I be responsible for how members act?
> 
> If you don't care about our opinions, then don't even ask, because this entire topic seems like a show to act like you care to curry favor with the members.


I'm not the one who asked, Naruto was. We are not legion.

Don't even recall mentioning you specifically, but if I didn't care about your opinions, I wouldn't have bothered to address them earlier in the thread.


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## Seph (Jun 26, 2012)

SaiST said:


> I'm not the one who asked, Naruto was. We are not legion.
> 
> Don't even recall mentioning you specifically, but if I didn't care about your opinions, I wouldn't have bothered to address them earlier in the thread.



I find it hard to believe this wasn't planned out in the mods-only forum first.

I did say "our" rather than "my."


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## Jeαnne (Jun 26, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> One of the most frustrating things in the past was when the predictions thread would naturally lead to discussion of past chapters and how they related to the spoilers, and it would get trashed or lots of posts deleted for "off topic". Because to me a subject that is one degree of seperation away from the spoilers isn't really off-topic. Anyway, thankfully extreme deletion sprees like that doesn't seem to happen now.
> 
> I think my memory is getting jaded and distorted by time here, so I'll stop.
> 
> ...


Last week we started to talk about Tobi and get our posts deleted, but i think that, if we had in mind the possibility that something important about tobi, even his identity, could be revealed during itachi's flashback, why couldnt we discuss the subject again in the predictions thread?


im wondering what the mods will do when we get really close to the revelation of tobi's identity.


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## Jizznificent (Jun 26, 2012)

look guys i know how to fix every single problem! and i mean everything! 

we all know that "king" itachi is responsible for 1000%+ of the problem in the library . so make a whole subforum dedicated to king itachi discussions: for fanboys/girls and haters alike, or anyone in between. that is where all the clusterfuck that is currently plaguing the library will be contained. call it "The King's Library". catchy isn't it? 

then make a rule stating that the word "itachi" or anything itachi related should never be uttered in the main library again. so the main library will be strictly for anything non-itachi related; "The King's Library" will be for anything itachi related (e.g. how itachi solos everyone or how nagato, minato, jiraiya, gai, kakashi or anyone is greater than itachi).  

BOOM! there, problems solved. 

/thread.


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## Jeαnne (Jun 26, 2012)

bah, let the itachi fans have their moment, itachi will be vanishing next chapter, this is his goodbye, things will go back to normal after this


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## lathia (Jun 26, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> bah, let the itachi fans have their moment, itachi will be vanishing next chapter, this is his goodbye, things will go back to normal after this



Except for the few who will jump on the Sasuke bandwagon once all the Uchiha are gone (plot wise). You see, trolls will be trolls as long as they can cling onto something to troll with. Just look at how many jumped ships once Tobi wasn't a "confirmed" Uchiha.


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## Jizznificent (Jun 26, 2012)

^^^ well i'm not for or against itachi but i know a problem when i see one.  the saying "out of sight, out of mind" doesn't work when it comes to  itachi. he has already invaded all our minds. it is too late to stop him  now. 

bah, i don't won't this thread to derail into an itachi thread so i'll stop now. 

but you all know i'm right.


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## Turrin (Jun 26, 2012)

CrazyAries said:


> I am really not interested in tier lists, but I acknowledge how popular they are among members in the KL.  I would like to co-sign Turrin's ideas for establishing and organizing these kinds of threads.
> 
> I also like the idea to give a subsection for edit threads, but I'm not sure if there would be enough edits to justify it.


If my Idea was enacted there would be the fanart section which Edits could be posted in.


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## Jeefus (Jun 26, 2012)

I think overall Library is doing fairly well

I tend to agree with some of the things Melodie said.

Consider adding another sub forum or two for edits, jokes, trolling.. 

I know mods cannot regulate the way people behave, but sticking them "out of sight, out of mind" and just let them scream at each other would let everyone else enjoy themselves (and it would make modding easier)


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## Almondsand (Jun 26, 2012)

SaiST said:


> If we feel a post is going to detract from the topic at hand, we'll delete it. If a string of deleted posts that have nothing to do with the topic is enough to kill your interest in it, I surmise you had little interest in it to begin with.
> 
> Still find it humorous that individuals known for riling folks up are basically asking the mods to do nothing while they have free reign.
> 
> Do any of you actually recall the number of complaints about spam, particularly in the Predictions threads, before the staff took measures to prevent it?



So basically your criteria for what course of action you take is extremely based on subjective attributes. What you *feel* shouldn't be a primary motivator for what action you must take. This shows that your judgement  should not really be trusted as you are biased. You should be making decisions on the most neutral basis as you possibly can, instead of jumping around with a loaded gun in your hand. 

I find it humorous how in addition to how flawed your decision making skills are,  you are now showing how single out a group of people in to categories. You don't agree with what their proposal was and you deemed them troublemakers? So since they want less moderating and more creative freedom they are now troublemakers? The thing is you just don't want people opinion, you just want them to say you doing a good job. You just want them to lube up their ass hole,take all the crap you say, and fuck themselves with it. 

I haven't been here for the predictions and the complaints about spam, but I also don't see how exactly it is relevant to the discussion or problems we are having currently. The fact is the modding is flawed and the reason it's flaw is because you guys are just running around like bored fucks trying to be "good" mods by killing creativity. Y'all like almost 30 or 30 so fall back and let us debate, bait, etc.. I'm not really knowledgeable of forum language.


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## Naruto (Jun 26, 2012)

Seph said:


> this entire topic seems like a show to act like you care to curry favor with the members.



The staff really is damned if they do, damned if they don't.

This thread is not some grand plan. We were discussing forum policy amongst ourselves and I suggested we ask each section what they wanted instead of trying to decide for them.

That's it. And at this point in time all I'm doing is getting a feel of what the users want. When I have a list of things I can take to the rest of the staff we can see what sticks.



Almondsand said:


> The thing is you just don't want people opinion, you just want them to say you doing a good job. You just want them to lube up their ass hole,take all the crap you say, and fuck themselves with it.



I can assure you a long history of people spitting on a gesture of good faith has trained most of us not to expect praise.

I'm just going to throw this out there: the sentiment behind this thread is legit. This kind of negativity is bound to drain the energy out of those trying to contribute on either side. If you have criticism regarding our way of doing things that's perfectly fine, add your voice to the thread and if the majority agrees with you there's a good chance we'll rethink our way of doing things.

I don't think accusing of us malice is productive. I'd appreciate it if you didn't. And let me explain that as clearly as possible: this isn't some sort of thinly veiled threat. I'm not going to ban you for honestly expressing your feelings. It's a request from me to you, because I know I will personally take feedback a lot better if I don't have to explain I'm not a boogeyman at every turn.

/2cents


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 26, 2012)

One thing I'd like to see (other than the Itachi thread so we don't have to deal with hundreds of them during a single week) is a final crackdown on trolling. Like Naruko said was going to happen.


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## fukkengan (Jun 26, 2012)

My threads used to get closed easily and deleted for several random and stupid stuff, I am glad things changed, rules are not meant to be for punishing and shutting people up but for improving the discussions. I hope a time comes when there's real freedom to speak about naruto without the fear of getting banned.


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## Drums (Jun 26, 2012)

People, this thread is meant to gather feedback on how to improve this section. Constantly doubting the mod's intentions and coming up with stuff  about them which you can't even be certain of isnt contributing anything to that, it's only being counterproductive to the whole purpose of this thread. If you have personal issues with this mod or issues that have nothing to do with this section, then please take it to pms and make both the mod's and the people's who genuinely want to contribute job easier.


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## King Scoop (Jun 26, 2012)

Considering everyone's complaints, I think we should just go back to the library's old setup. We'll have a theory section that includes tier lists. And a joke section for wank and bashing threads.

Also there shouldn't be an official limit on how many chapters back we can talk about. If we did that we couldn't even talk about the beginning of the current fight.


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## Naruto (Jun 26, 2012)

King Scoop said:


> Considering everyone's complaints, I think we should just go back to the library's old setup. We'll have a theory section that includes tier lists. And a joke section for wank and bashing threads.



I won't take it off the table, but having been active during the time those sections existed, I can't say I advocate using them again.



King Scoop said:


> Also there shouldn't be an official limit on how many chapters back we can talk about. If we did that we couldn't even talk about the beginning of the current fight.



I agree. People should be able to make threads about whatever they want regarding the manga, no matter how far back it goes. If a single matter floods the first page of the library, then we can start thinking about merging threads.

This is just my opinion.

I'm going to remind everyone to keep posting and I promise every single post will be read.


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## Easley (Jun 26, 2012)

hmm, I do have a small complaint. It's the way threads are merged. Sometimes a thread from Telegrams will be merged into the Library. Whatever discussion was going on is ruined - Tobi identity especially. I wondered where all that Avatar stuff came from.


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## SaiST (Jun 26, 2012)

I know we've often cleaned up discussions in the *Predictions* threads that, when talking about an old plot point in relation to what may or may not happen in the next chapter, branched off into something else entirely.

But I don't recall anybody here placing limits on what kind of threads can be made based on how old the topic is.

Were you talking about the former, or the latter, King Scoop?


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## Almondsand (Jun 26, 2012)

Naruto said:


> *Blah Blah*
> 
> /2cents



Huh? What? You didn't answer anything, just gave me your feelings, I'm not a therapist, so I don't want your 2 cents to listen.


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## Naruto (Jun 26, 2012)

Almondsand said:


> Huh? What? You didn't answer anything, just gave me your feelings, I'm not a therapist, so I don't want your 2 cents to listen.



You didn't ask anything. You posted some bitter bullshit about us being biased. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and asked you to drop the antagonistic attitude. You chose not to.


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## Zenith (Jun 26, 2012)

I like how no one addressed the fact that on a forum it's downright wrong for people to not allow other people to simply talk about a character they like for no reason whatsoever

or isn't this a place where we talk about the manga?

or does a thread have to be approved by the mods for it to see the light of day and not get trashed?

but again where is the freedom?



Jizznificent said:


> unban our fellow nagato fans: munboy dracule obrian, googleplex and or mister. the library isn't the same without them him.



I see what you did ther'



Seraphiel said:


> Wait mister is banned and people like Jpogo and Camora are allowed to post?
> 
> There you have your answer what to do Naruto.



Munboy had Mister has a certified dupe account,thus the mandatory ban

I have a say in this as I uncovered the truth and made him come out of his basement

but also I agree on the camorra and pongo man thing you mentioned


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## Naruko (Jun 26, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> *I like how no one addressed the fact that on a forum it's downright wrong for people to not allow other people to simply talk about a character they like for no reason whatsoever
> 
> or isn't this a place where we talk about the manga?
> 
> ...



"For no reason whatsoever" means it probably belongs in the FC section. The KL exists to discuss the manga which generally means current events or how past events affect current events (or theories about manga stuff). General fangasming over a character, pairing or technique, especially stuff that's been covered before and there is nothing new to discuss, compare or debate, goes in FCs (or if it's manga related but fluff-pieces, like cutest boy/girl/summon, favorite theme song/cover art, whatever, it belongs in House of Uzumaki).

 I don't know if folks are afraid their posts will get lost in FCs but that isn't the case. FCs have more traffic as a section than any other part of the forums, period. If you can't get enough Itachi or Darui or whomever, find the appropriate FC and post in it. The Itachi FC will love you coming in and posting a new essay every day about how awesome he is. It won't get merged or deleted. Try it.

I'm sorry if you felt your POV was ignored, I don't think that was the case (or intention, at least) just a lot going on in here. If anyone posts up a legit question (not a passive-aggressive taunt like "why do posters that like Itachi suck so much?" I mean legit questions) and they feel it is missed, feel free to quote it and post it again or just post it again. 

Beyond that, try to keep it civil and Almond, chill. He isn't asking you to be his therapist. He's asking you to let go of the bitterness as it doesn't promote any resolution to any particular problem. In short, he was trying to be a moderator.


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## Mider T (Jun 26, 2012)

The only idea that hasn't already been mentioned that I want is to be more liberal with debates.  Shouldn't be banned for calling an idiot, an idiot.  Or even worse and idiotic idea, idiotic.  If it gets out of control I can see it but lighten up, some things people come up with are stupid and should be rightfully called out as so.


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## Naruko (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> The only idea that hasn't already been mentioned that I want is to be more liberal with debates.  Shouldn't be banned for calling an idiot, an idiot.  Or even worse and idiotic idea, idiotic.  If it gets out of control I can see it but lighten up, some things people come up with are stupid and should be rightfully called out as so.



Calling someone an idiot will still get you banned, I honestly don't see that changing. It's about attacking the argument, not the person. You want to call an argument idiotic, I don't personally care. I don't ban for that UNLESS the only thing someone bothers to post is "your theory is stupid" (or similar) and they don't bother to share their own theories or counter any of the arguments with evidence or whatever. And even then, it's me banning for spamming/trolling. Long as someone tries to make a sincere contribution and they stay away from personal attacks, I'm pretty freaking happy.


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## Hexa (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> The only idea that hasn't already been mentioned that I want is to be more liberal with debates.  Shouldn't be banned for calling an idiot, an idiot.  Or even worse and idiotic idea, idiotic.  If it gets out of control I can see it but lighten up, some things people come up with are stupid and should be rightfully called out as so.


If an idea's stupid, just don't respond to it.  You might think you're doing the forums a favor by revealing your opinion about which posters are dumb, but really you're just making terrible posts that derail threads.


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## Mider T (Jun 26, 2012)

So even if the person makes a valid and well-thought out post, that "idiot" part of the comment will get him banned?  Why is it only like that in this section?


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## Revolution (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm happy with this section.  It's actually the one I visit the most 

Also, let edit threads have their fun.


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## Naruko (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> So even if the person makes a valid and well-thought out post, that "idiot" part of the comment will get him banned?  Why is it only like that in this section?



It won't necessarily get you banned, depends on your history. We try to start with edit/deletion and asking you not to use language like that. Bans come into play when it's a repeat occurrence. Ironic in that instance if it's for someone calling another poster an idiot. 

And it's not only this section. In fact the only sections that will at times look the other way on stuff like is the Cafe, Plaza and Blender. And that doesn't mean it's ok or allowed there, just means the staff there aren't getting hung up about it. But since the rules still say not to do it, unless you see the rules change, go by that to be safe or don't be surprised if you face censure for it.

If you do something like that in FCs, I promise you it is a problem. If someone seems to get away with it, we just didn't see it. You've been around enough you've seen this question/example posed before and heard it answered pretty much this way as well. I really don't have anything new to add. 



Sarahmint said:


> I'm happy with this section.  It's actually the one I visit the most



You're probably getting a lot of shit from people for this opinion, for which I am profoundly sorry. But to you and anyone that has come in  here with sincere suggestions and a reasonable attitude, thank you. I don't know what will come out of this thread, but it's good for us all to get in touch like this outside the setting manga-related thread. If I had tea, I would pour everyone a cup. Someone else bring the scones/cookies, please (lemon flavored for me).


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## Hexa (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> So even if the person makes a valid and well-thought out post, that "idiot" part of the comment will get him banned?  Why is it only like that in this section?


That's sort of a rare combination that you're describing.  We don't ban for every insult, though.  It depends a number of things.  If the poster has been banned a lot before, then we're probably going to be more strict with him than someone who routinely makes good posts and just got angry for whatever reason in one post.


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## Naruto (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> The only idea that hasn't already been mentioned that I want is to be more liberal with debates.  Shouldn't be banned for calling an idiot, an idiot.  Or even worse and idiotic idea, idiotic.  If it gets out of control I can see it but lighten up, some things people come up with are stupid and should be rightfully called out as so.



I don't want to encourage people to go around insulting each other, but I can see an argument for not being so strict when it does happen.


----------



## Drums (Jun 26, 2012)

Hexa said:


> If an idea's stupid, just don't respond to it.  You might think you're doing the forums a favor by revealing your opinion about which posters are dumb, but really you're just making terrible posts that derail threads.



This right here. Also, whether someone's opinion is stupid or not is a subjective matter and constantly bashing people whose posts you find idiotic or don't agree with is plain immature and in bad taste.
Just try to reply to them in an, at least, neutral attitude, by bringing up valid points and that's it. No need to show everyone in the forum your "superiority" by resulting to insults and a condescending attitude towards the other poster.

Good points arent the only thing that makes a good post. The other is good manners.

We have many "intellectuals" here, what we lack is maturity in the posts.


----------



## Mider T (Jun 26, 2012)

So just keep encouraging bland posting?  The Bleach Avenue has great theories and is incredibly funny, one of the reasons why is because when someone makes a post that is dumb, they'll know.  They won't continue.


----------



## Drums (Jun 26, 2012)

There's freedom of speech and the forums are for people to express their ideas and opinions, no matter how stupid or not they may seem to others. If you don't like a post or a thread, just ignore it.


----------



## Mider T (Jun 26, 2012)

And if it's stupid, why not rightfully call it out as such?  Because feelings get hurt?  Screw that, we're allowed compliment if we think it's a great theory or post.  We're allowed to neg or rep if we disagree or agree yet we can't call a person stupid if they do something stupid?  Who's being protected?


----------



## Yuna (Jun 26, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> Last week we started to talk about Tobi and get our posts deleted, but i think that, if we had in mind the possibility that something important about tobi, even his identity, could be revealed during itachi's flashback, why couldnt we discuss the subject again in the predictions thread?


Probably because there are 4 Tobi threads each week, even for chapters in which he doesn't even appear.


----------



## shibunari (Jun 26, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> There's freedom of speech and the forums are for people to express their ideas and opinions, no matter how stupid or not they may seem to others. If you don't like a post or a thread, just ignore it.



Oh! if mods thoughts were like this...
we would not have so many comments deleted needlessly.


----------



## Drums (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> And if it's stupid, why not rightfully call it out as such?  Because feelings get hurt?  Screw that, we're allowed compliment if we think it's a great theory or post.  We're allowed to neg or rep if we disagree or agree yet we can't call a person stupid if they do something stupid?  Who's being protected?



As I said in my other posts, whether an opinion or an idea is stupid or not is a subjective matter to everyone and different people will judge it differently.
"Calling people out" on "their stupidity", in that sense, reeks of arrogance and self-indulgence to me.

As I said, if you don't agree with a post, simply come up with valid points against it and leave the insults aside, they don't contribute anything besides derailing threads.

In addition, people, whether you agree with their opinions or not, should be encouraged to post(considering they arent breaking any rules), this is what the forum is for, afterall.

Dont like it, dont read it. Simple.


----------



## Mider T (Jun 26, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> As I said in my other posts, whether an opinion or an idea is stupid or not is a subjective matter to everyone and different people will judge it differently.
> "Calling people out" on "their stupidity", in that sense, reeks of arrogance and self-indulgence to me.
> 
> As I said, if you don't agree with a post, simply come up with valid points against it and leave the insults aside, they don't contribute anything besides derailing threads.
> ...



Think so?  You and I have both seen posts that are quoted by 5-10 people on a single page for being dumb.  Of course in this section they can't explicitly be called dumb.  That's not very subjective.  It's quite obvious what a stupid post is.
Everyone is arrogant, I'm not saying we should be allowed to go all out with it.  I'm calling the decision to ban someone for calling another poster and idiot a stupid one.

I've already addressed the other things (encouraging stupid posts instead of pointing it out to them, etc.)


----------



## Drums (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Think so?  You and I have both seen posts that are quoted by 5-10 people on a single page for being dumb.  Of course in this section they can't explicitly be called dumb.  That's not very subjective.  It's quite obvious what a stupid post is.
> Everyone is arrogant, I'm not saying we should be allowed to go all out with it.  I'm calling the decision to ban someone for calling another poster and idiot a stupid one.
> 
> I've already addressed the other things (encouraging stupid posts instead of pointing it out to them, etc.)



I do think it is subjective, though. Just because a big chunk of people agrees wit h you in viewing something as stupid, this doesnt mean that it became a fact, it still remains your opinion. There will always be people who will not see as stupid something that you do, even if they aren't many. People think differently, this doesnt necessarily mean they're stupid just for thinking differently to you. 

That aside, let's say that, as you say, something is outright stupid, subjectivity aside, what's the point in insulting the other person? It only ends up derailing a thread. Besides, even if you try to discourage people from posting, with an aggressive towards them attitude, it's just the internet thus,  long-term wise people arent going to be prevented that way because they have no reason to be afraid of you and personally I'd rather post a thread or make a post that the majority might consider stupid, than accept to be silenced, instead.

Everyone is arrogant, but to different degrees from person to person. What I meant though is, that just because you are, it doesnt mean you have to act on it.
All people have natural tendencies towards certain behaviours, whether it's aggressivity, arrogance or kindness but there's a "moral" code which most rational people tend to follow, and they know better than to act on some urges. The thing is, with the internet, people forget themselves and usually act all out on them. This doesn't make it right, though.

To sum this all up, two wrongs dont make a right.




> I'm calling the decision to ban someone for calling another poster and idiot a stupid one.



I agree with this, although if the person keeps bashing someone  or in general having an agressive attitude to other users on a regular basis, then the ban would be well deserved, imo.

The point of posting, besides expressing your opinion, is to have a "functioning" conversation and such a thing cannot be achieved through insults.


Anyways, I'm done posting here, I believe my posts are clear enough as it is and I know you're not gonna reflect on them, either way. Mods, good luck with this thread. :/


----------



## King Scoop (Jun 26, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I won't take it off the table, but having been active during the time those sections existed, I can't say I advocate using them again.



I guess I can understand your hesitation. Again soon it probably won't matter anyway. These last few weeks just has the fandoms riled up.



SaiST said:


> I know we've often cleaned up discussions in the *Predictions* threads that, when talking about an old plot point in relation to what may or may not happen in the next chapter, branched off into something else entirely.
> 
> But I don't recall anybody here placing limits on what kind of threads can be made based on how old the topic is.
> 
> Were you talking about the former, or the latter, King Scoop?



The latter, but it was in response to recommendations others had made.


----------



## shibunari (Jun 26, 2012)

shibunari said:


> Oh! if mods thoughts were like this...
> we would not have so many comments deleted needlessly.





Alfred Polizzi, again gave an example of what I'm complaining.

this is ridiculous.


----------



## Orochimaru800 (Jun 26, 2012)

Lol you know this section is in the crapper when people actually suggest that specific  fictional characters get their own section on a forum.


----------



## Andrew (Jun 26, 2012)

Every member has their own brand of ideas when making a thread. They have excitement in them and want to express it; this is something that cannot be stopped. However, many threads made here are about characters/ theories from the manga that are being discussed over and over again differently. Its like a loop that Itachi used on Kabuto. If they still do not give in reading the facts or change their habits, then their fate remains the same and stuck in a loop. The only way out of this loop is to follow the rules.


----------



## Mider T (Jun 26, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> I do think it is subjective, though. Just because a big chunk of people agrees wit h you in viewing something as stupid, this doesnt mean that it became a fact, it still remains your opinion. There will always be people who will not see as stupid something that you do, even if they aren't many. People think differently, this doesnt necessarily mean they're stupid just for thinking differently to you.



Now you're being difficult.  This isn't something someone would say in real life.  This is just someone looking for that one exception.  Because you know what I mean.



> That aside, let's say that, as you say, something is outright stupid, subjectivity aside, what's the point in insulting the other person? It only ends up derailing a thread. Besides, even if you try to discourage people from posting, with an aggressive towards them attitude, it's just the internet thus,  long-term wise people arent going to be prevented that way because they have no reason to be afraid of you and personally I'd rather post a thread or make a post that the majority might consider stupid, than accept to be silenced, instead.



It doesn't discourage someone from posting unless they have thin skin, in which they shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.  This isn't anything new, it's the regular way of posting in all other sections.  It only ends up derailing if it becomes an outright targeted flame or flamefest, and that's not what I'm suggesting.  A quick "idiot" comment should not be grounds for a ban just a "knock it off and stop being stupid"



> Everyone is arrogant, but to different degrees from person to person. What I meant though is, that just because you are, it doesnt mean you have to act on it.
> All people have natural tendencies towards certain behaviours, whether it's aggressivity, arrogance or kindness but there's a "moral" code which most rational people tend to follow, and they know better than to act on some urges. The thing is, with the internet, people forget themselves and usually act all out on them. This doesn't make it right, though.
> 
> To sum this all up, two wrongs dont make a right.



So just turn a blind eye to this?  Fuck that.  If they're putting themselves out there you have the right to call them out.  You wouldn't turn down a positive opinion, why do the same to a negative?




> I agree with this, although if the person keeps bashing someone  or in general having an agressive attitude to other users on a regular basis, then the ban would be well deserved, imo.
> 
> The point of posting, besides expressing your opinion, is to have a "functioning" conversation and such a thing cannot be achieved through insults.
> 
> ...



You're position is the same as any other passive position that supports this in the Library, pent up frustration because of having to tiptoe a quick name-call.  It shouldn't be a banworthy offense.  I dunno why it has to be like this here yet the other sections do just as well (or no worse) without it.


----------



## Naruto (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> A quick "idiot" comment should not be grounds for a ban just a "knock it off and stop being stupid"



But will people knock it off knowing there's no consequence regardless?


----------



## Grendel (Jun 26, 2012)

shibunari said:


> Alfred Polizzi, again gave an example of what I'm complaining.
> 
> this is ridiculous.



This is the kind of stuff that I ruins my experience here as well...I am not saying anything negative about the mod in the quoted post just want to make that clear as I have been a mod and admin on a couple other sites and I understand how it can be frustrating at times

I thinks threads should be allowed to evolve as the discussion does...if everyone in a particular thread has taken the conversation to a point where it isnt exactly like the op then how can the posts be off topic...we get threads sometimes with double digit posts ina row that have been deleted for this thus effectively killing the thread/conversation...


----------



## Mider T (Jun 26, 2012)

Naruto said:


> But will people knock it off knowing there's no consequence regardless?



Everyone has the incentive of not wanting to have their thread locked.  Stupid threads or repetitive threads usually end up locked.


----------



## Jeefus (Jun 26, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Everyone has the incentive of not wanting to have their thread locked.  Stupid threads or repetitive threads usually end up locked.



No offense Mider, 

The answer is "no".  Every section has there elitist who get pissy about small, insignificant matters.  I can think of some who probably do not care about being receiving the ban hammer.   They can be very arrogant about their positions and  opinions. 

All people have to do is add "idea" to the "your"

I can understand why the Mods won't give on this point.  

It's not about not "having tough skin".  Hell, I want to tell people all the time "I've seen body parts blown off. Had RPGs explode on my truck, had IEDs go off on me.. grow a pair"  But I can't.  It's about treating people decent (even on the net)


----------



## Mider T (Jun 26, 2012)

Calling someone stupid for a stupid thread is not the equivalent of flaming the living hell out of someone and treating them like shit.  If you think so, that's thin skin online and offline.  As for the first part, you're just using exceptions like StrawHeart.


----------



## Jeefus (Jun 27, 2012)

but often people manage to do the both at the same time. they won't make distinctions


----------



## Xerces (Jun 27, 2012)

I think having a _like/dislike_ feature implemented into the forum could go a long way. Unlike the current moderation system, being held accountable by the collective of the forum will incentivise quality posts.

We are more than capable of policing ourselves, but ofcourse the limitation of the vBulletin software probably won't make this possible.


----------



## dream (Jun 27, 2012)

Xerces said:


> I think having a _like/dislike_ feature implemented into the forum could go a long way. Unlike the current moderation system, being held accountable by the collective of the forum will incentivise quality posts.
> 
> We are more than capable of policing ourselves, but ofcourse the limitation of the vBulletin software probably won't make this possible.



Eh, I don't believe that a like/dislike feature will change much.  

Actually, we can have a like/dislike feature but we likely won't ever get it because the only admin with the ability to make this possible, Mbxx, likely won't care to do it and may even be a bit wary of doing this due to possible perceived security issues with such a custom modification.     


Anyways, I don't really have a problem with the way Konoha Library has been run.  Of course this might be because I only visit this section sparsely and don't spend much time in the section when I do.


----------



## Jeefus (Jun 27, 2012)

I don't know much about the vBulletin software, but would it be possible, like Xerces said, to "thumb down" topics so they go away, "auto-lock" or get moved down the list toward the bottom?

Or is that pretty much like the "like/dislike" feature??


----------



## dream (Jun 27, 2012)

Jeefus said:


> I don't know much about the vBulletin software, but would it be possible, like Xerces said, to "thumb down" topics so they go away, "auto-lock" or get moved down the list toward the bottom?
> 
> Or is that pretty much like the "like/dislike" feature??



I doubt that it would be possible to do it threads move down the "list" and still have the threads show up by the last post time.  If there is a way to do that it would likely be needlessly complex, it would require a custom mod to vbulletin, and that just makes it absurdly unlikely for us to get it.  

Also, members being able to making threads go away or be auto-locked...I CAN'T see that being abused at all.  It's better to leave such things to the staff.


----------



## Jeefus (Jun 27, 2012)

Yeah, you're right about that now that I've come back to think on it


----------



## αce (Jun 27, 2012)

Ban everyone who joined past the year 2009 from posting here.


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## Shikamaru Nara (Jun 27, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Ban everyone who joined past the year 2009 from posting here.


Yeah of course.Great idea.Like an earlier join date makes your opinion weigh more than others that came after you.

Creating minorities is definitely missing in here.

Hope you're joking.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jun 27, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Ban everyone who joined past the year 2009 from posting here.


From what I have observed, it's always the people in green who are the more controversial 

_no offense_


----------



## jimbob631 (Jun 27, 2012)

I think this section is way too monitored in my opinion.  Threads that show signs of becoming fan wars are locked.  So fucking what?  People should be allowed to have conversations about the manga, no matter how polarizing.


----------



## momma bravo (Jun 27, 2012)

yeah, so i thought about it and read through some of the posts over again. i take my word back, making an x-character sub-forum wouldn't do any good. 
 about the whole freedom of speech thing and "punishment" system, it's very iffy and i don't think it'll ever be completely resolved on a forum like this (a forum ultimately dedicated to Shonen manga and anime) because immature and easily-offended members of the vocal minority will tend to be brash and insensitive or even oversensitive. yeah, there are "trolls" everywhere on the internet, but for a forum especially like this i think asshattery is inevitable no matter how much the mods crack down.  
shit, i'll have to think this one over after a few hits. :sanji



♠Ace♠ said:


> Ban everyone who joined past the year 2009 from posting here.


 

edit: the smoke is in the library, but the fires start in the telegrams.


----------



## Mider T (Jun 27, 2012)

Shikamaru Nara said:


> Yeah of course.Great idea.Like an earlier join date makes your opinion weigh more than others that came after you.
> 
> Creating minorities is definitely missing in here.
> 
> Hope you're joking.



Well they do, a less established poster has more to prove.


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Jun 27, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Well they do, a less established poster has more to prove.



You never post in the library, a suggestion from someone who doesn't post in this section should be ignored.


----------



## Almondsand (Jun 27, 2012)

He however have great suggestions


----------



## αce (Jun 27, 2012)

Shikamaru Nara said:


> Yeah of course.Great idea.Like an earlier join date makes your opinion weigh more than others that came after you.
> 
> Creating minorities is definitely missing in here.
> 
> Hope you're joking.




I'm not joking.


----------



## Ghost (Jun 27, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Ban everyone who joined past the year 2009 from posting here.





**


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 27, 2012)

please check out the telegrams page to see the problem


----------



## Shikamaru Nara (Jun 27, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Well they do, a less established poster has more to prove.


While I'd agree that there are scenarios in which an opinion of a "new" poster is sometimes overlooked or not blessed with attention, it's certainly the wrong way to handle the join date and postcount as some sort of status.

It is of course an indicator as to how "serious" that certain poster see's his visits here, but the more reliable way, which as far as I know the most Mods/Admins are counting on, is the post history in the sense of what content that poster provides.


If a poster, f.e. is here since 2004 and has 50k posts but was banned several times and is known for negative or provocative behavior, and then on the other hand, someone with 300 posts who was here for a month, who knows how to discuss in a fair manner and is able to avoid discussions that tend to fail at their purpose and had something to bring to the table, well, I cant say I would've a hard time choosing which opinion deserves attention and which not.


So saying that everyone that joined later than 2009 (Which would include me) shouldn't be allowed to post their opinions in this thread, which was opened by *Naruto* who in this thread underlined that everyones opinion/feedback is welcomed and appreciated, would contradict with the purpose of this thread and with it, discriminate people that might have more helpful ideas then you do, Mider.



♠Ace♠ said:


> I'm not joking.


Well then you certainly have failed to understand Narutos intentions with this.Which for me, makes everyones opinion weigh more than yours, newbie or not.


----------



## UchihaSage (Jun 27, 2012)

re: Konoha telegrams

The point of this subforum is to protect your eyes from seeing spoilers before you read the chapter. The problem is, that when the chapter is released, the spoiler thread gets to page 5, or sometimes lost somewhere. That means that you have to glance over all of the spoiler filled thread titles until you can read the chapter.

My suggestion is: when the new chapter comes out, please make a NEW CHAPTER OUT thread in the main konoha library, with a link to telegrams for discussing the chapter.

Some people might say "just wait", well how easy is it for you to wait for the next chapter of the manga? Of course we want to read it straight away. There is no point of being spoiled when teh chapter has just been released, it's more fun to read the manga and get a surprise.


----------



## Jeefus (Jun 27, 2012)

UchihaSage said:


> re: Konoha telegrams
> 
> The point of this subforum is to protect your eyes from seeing spoilers before you read the chapter. The problem is, that when the chapter is released, the spoiler thread gets to page 5, or sometimes lost somewhere. That means that you have to glance over all of the spoiler filled thread titles until you can read the chapter.
> 
> ...




I thought Library couldn't discuss a chapter for a full week or something like that..

All new chapter discussion were in the Telegrams subforum

That may be an old rule that isn't there any longer.

I haven't looked

About the post count and join dates

I'm considered an old timer if you go by join date, however for the longest time I just watched and never participated like I do now (see post count)... and even then, most people probably over look what I say because I have not sufficiently "established" myself...

So banning those people would prevent ANYONE from ever joining again.  I could say "ban everyone from 2007 an onward", and Ace, you wouldn't like that.


----------



## Mider T (Jun 27, 2012)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> You never post in the library, a suggestion from someone who doesn't post in this section should be ignored.



Case in point, I was an established poster here long before you joined.


----------



## shibunari (Jun 27, 2012)

Khris said:


> please check out the telegrams page to see the problem


This 
Please, go to see the Telegrams page.


----------



## jacamo (Jun 27, 2012)

momma bravo said:


> about the whole freedom of speech thing and "punishment" system, it's very iffy and i don't think it'll ever be completely resolved on a forum like this (a forum ultimately dedicated to Shonen manga and anime) because immature and easily-offended members of the vocal minority will tend to be brash and insensitive or even oversensitive. yeah, there are "trolls" everywhere on the internet, but for a forum especially like this i think asshattery is inevitable no matter how much the mods crack down.



i actually like it that people can be brash on this forum

:sanji

trolls are a problem? maybe its just me but they dont really bother me, in this place its almost part of the habitat  very minor problem imo


----------



## momma bravo (Jun 27, 2012)

jacamo said:


> i actually like it that people can be brash on this forum
> 
> :sanji
> 
> *trolls are a problem? *maybe its just me but they dont really bother me, in this place its almost part of the habitat  very minor problem imo


i'm not trying to directly say that trolls are a problem, but that it's a problem if you try to tailor a forum solely out of retaliation to trolls, hence why i swallowed my earlier statement about an itachi subforum.

and ditto to what Shikamaru said. sometimes the "old-timers" post some really stupid shit or the rep-meter has an aura of "daaayum, this kid's whack" and some of the "noob" posters with less than 100 posts have some great thoughts and posting etiquette, and vice versa. i usually ignore any post defining characteristics (rep meter, post amount, join date, characters in the sig, etc.).


----------



## Ginkurage (Jun 28, 2012)

Everything right now is pretty good. Some character threads are taken a little too far but it's not a big issue.

The staff are doing a good job.



Mider T said:


> Well they do, a less established poster has more to prove.



Your join date has absolutely nothing to do with being an established poster. A new user could quite easily reach thousands of posts within weeks if they wished to do so, which would make them an established poster.

For example there are users with a similar join date to you that don't even have 100 posts. Would you consider them an "established poster"?


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## Skywalker (Jun 28, 2012)

Not at all, this section, like the BD is utter shit.


----------



## C-Moon (Jun 28, 2012)

jacamo said:
			
		

> maybe its just me but they dont really bother me, *in this place its almost part of the habitat*


There's the problem, they've been accepted here when they should've been booted on sight.


----------



## EJ (Jun 29, 2012)

No, I'm not happy with this section.

I was just recently banned for making two anti Itachi threads discussing his flaws as a character. Not only was I fail trolled (the trolls didn't get any type of emotion out of me), but I reported them AND I WAS BANNED. Only one other user was banned for trying desperately to troll me. 

None of the other users were.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jun 29, 2012)

I think the solution to not getting banned for posting a hate thread is not to hate said character.
[sp=it really is a no brainer][/sp]
m2c


----------



## Yuna (Jun 29, 2012)

Flow said:


> No, I'm not happy with this section.
> 
> I was just recently banned for making two anti Itachi threads discussing his flaws as a character. Not only was I fail trolled (the trolls didn't get any type of emotion out of me), but I reported them AND I WAS BANNED. Only one other user was banned for trying desperately to troll me.
> 
> None of the other users were.


Maybe the fact that you made *two* flamebaiting threads (and no doubt got involved in flame wars in them) had something to do with it.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Jun 29, 2012)

Lol at the Itachi hate,  It's a fucking manga discussion forum and he's a part of it. fuck.  Let's ban discussing Chouji and Hinata to while we're at it.


----------



## EJ (Jun 29, 2012)

1. They were anti Itachi threads like I admitted

2. They pointed out and brought great discussion as to why Itachi was a horrible character/brother

3. I was targeted in these threads and people tried desperately to troll/flame me

4. I was banned for defending my points.

I'm still waiting on a response from a mod. I even brought it up with another one and they informed me I should make an ScR thread about it since it was so unfair.


----------



## Yuna (Jun 29, 2012)

Flow said:


> 1. They were anti Itachi threads like I admitted


Why did you make *two* threads at the same time?



Flow said:


> 2. They pointed out and brought great discussion as to why Itachi was a horrible character/brother


Why did you make *any* to begin with when there were already several threads on the subject?

QUOTE=Flow;43577270]3. I was targeted in these threads and people tried desperately to troll/flame me

4. I was banned for defending my points.[/quote]
No, you were likely banned from flaming.



Flow said:


> I'm still waiting on a response from a mod. I even brought it up with another one and they informed me I should make an ScR thread about it since it was so unfair.


Then do so. Don't bring it up here as if a court of your peers is gonna free you based on zero information besides your word.


----------



## EJ (Jun 29, 2012)

If I can get this information Naruto, I would greatly appreciate it. I feel as though the library is too sensitive.


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## shintebukuro (Jun 29, 2012)

The way I see it, "wank" threads are harmless. It's mostly memes, and I don't think such threads ever really represent what anybody in the forum _honestly_ thinks.

But bashing threads are just pure horseshit. If you really despise a character enough to want to do nothing but seek to bash them (and unfairly/contrived as it usually is), then you need to sort some stuff out personally.


----------



## IchLiebe (Jun 29, 2012)

Flow said:


> 1. They were anti Itachi threads like I admitted
> 
> 2. They pointed out and brought great discussion as to why Itachi was a horrible character/brother
> 
> ...



Maybe Itachi-fans have some people on the payrole. It's a conspiracy I tell you.

Seriously though, They can make 20 threads a day about how great Itachi is but be damned if we make 1.   



			
				shintebukuro said:
			
		

> The way I see it, "wank" threads are harmless. It's mostly memes, and I don't think such threads ever really represent what anybody in the forum honestly thinks.
> 
> But bashing threads are just pure horseshit. If you really despise a character enough to want to do nothing but seek to bash them (and unfairly/contrived as it usually is), then you need to sort some stuff out personally



See what I mean. Wonder if he's an Itachi fan.


----------



## Zenith (Jun 29, 2012)

> Maybe Itachi-fans have some people on the payrole. It's a conspiracy I tell you.
> 
> Seriously though, They can make 20 threads a day about how great Itachi is but be damned if we make 1.



Seph a user who made Itachi edi threads,was banned because while he wanked Itachi he trolled Minato(of course with humour),but he lost the power to make threads because some people were too sensitive about the fact that their fav character is ridiculed(like it's some serious business lol)

but if you make an Itachi troll thread be sure that the Itachi residents will have a good laugh out of it also


----------



## IchLiebe (Jun 29, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> let me tell why tell you why that's bullshit
> 
> Seph a user who made Itachi edi threads,was banned because while he wanked Itachi he trolled Minato(of course with humour),but he lost the power to make threads because some people were too sensitive about the fact that their fav character is ridiculed(like it's some serious business lol)
> 
> ...



LOL read my post.  



> Maybe Itachi-fans have some people on the payrole. It's a conspiracy I tell you.
> 
> *Seriously though*, They can make 20 threads a day about how great Itachi is but be damned if we make 1.



The bold tells you the stuff before that is playing around. And I don't give a shit about the edit threads or whatever. I'm talking about the 20 threads a weeks about how great Itachi is but if you make one talking shit about him, it gets locked for flamebaiting and in Flow's case banned. I read the thread and it wasn't shit. And no Itachi fans don't laugh at it. Y'all say,"your a hater" and "mad because he soloed your fav char" and retarded stuff like that. Then you make a thread about Itachi and the only thing post say "Itachi soloes." and yet it's not spamming or anything.


----------



## Naruto (Jun 29, 2012)

Flow said:


> If I can get this information Naruto, I would greatly appreciate it. I feel as though the library is too sensitive.



If you want to contribute by saying you'd like us to go easier on punishments I completely understand and frankly I'm behind you on that. But I'm not familiar with your situation or what happened. If you recall, I was just the guy who fetched the person who banned you so you could talk it out.

In the meantime, you'll probably get better answers in an SCR thread.


----------



## EJ (Jun 29, 2012)

No, I haven't gotten one post from the mod who banned me. 

If you view these two threads:





All I did was contribute to the discussion of the previous chapter, then I was trolled by a mod and banned for reporting others who were trying desperately to troll me.


----------



## Naruto (Jun 29, 2012)

Flow said:


> No, I haven't gotten one post from the mod who banned me.
> 
> If you view these two threads:
> 
> ...



I pm'd you about it, sorry to be a broken record but please take it to the SCR.


----------



## eyeknockout (Jun 30, 2012)

you need an official itachi hate thread and an official itachi wank thread.

an official "madara is boss" thread
an official "BM naruto solos all anime verses" thread
a "itachi vs minato/nagato even SM jiraiya  thread
an official "minato wank" thread
an official "eyeknockout is a boss" thread
an official "what really happened at the uchiha massacre"
an official "tobi is everyone" thread
an official "sasuke has no sanity thread"
an official "how did kakashi get mangekyou" thread
an official "can yata's mirror stop everything" thread
an official "i'm butthurt because people think x char is greater than my fav char" thread
an official "edo deidara and edo sasori were trolled" thread
an official "kisame, jiraiya and shisui will be revived" thread
an official "the manga isn't as good as it used to be so i'm going to rant as i cry into a pillow"
an official "will sasuke get another powerup" thread
an official "orochimaru will return" thread
an official "kages need to die" thread
and an official "eyeknockout for greatest poster ever on this forum" thread

ever since i got onto this forum which hasn't been that long, these are the only threads i ever see. over and over and over again


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Jun 30, 2012)

More threads needs to be stickied to prevent duplicate threads and it helps member find the thread easily.


----------



## Yuna (Jun 30, 2012)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> More threads needs to be stickied to prevent duplicate threads and it helps member find the thread easily.


No. Because that would create a forum section whose first page is filled with stickied threads, bumping almost all new threads to the second page.

Threads need to be merged more. If a thread has been dead for less than a week and someone recreates it, merge them!


----------



## Raiden (Jun 30, 2012)

There should probably be an "Official War Itachi Discussion" thread for the same reasons mods had to curb threads about Tobi's identity a while back.


----------



## Jad (Jul 14, 2012)

Absolutely not. Mods merge threads when they clearly have two different subjects and discussions going on. It's soo annoying for the users who create them. And there is no point in personal messaging them because they will NEVER, and I mean EVER, feel they are in the wrong. They are very conceited in attitude.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 14, 2012)

Are not both threads discussing Gai's ability to withstand the strain of opening the Eight Gates?


----------



## Turrin (Jul 14, 2012)

So any updates on the unbanning of tier-lists or possible tier-list sub-forum?


----------



## EJ (Jul 14, 2012)

Question.

I like making anti Itachi threads, pointing at his flaws. Am I allowed to make anti Itachi threads?


----------



## 青月光 (Jul 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> Question.
> 
> I like making anti Itachi threads, pointing at his flaws. Am I allowed to make anti Itachi threads?



Why do you hate Itachi?


----------



## Seph (Jul 14, 2012)

Erm, when's the poll with this thread's suggestions coming? Nothing's changed.


----------



## EJ (Jul 14, 2012)

Legendary Uchiha said:


> Why do you hate Itachi?



Why should it matter?


----------



## 青月光 (Jul 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> Why should it matter?



Because you were actually an Itachi fan. What new information was given to you about Itachi that you didn?t know, making you hate him?


----------



## EJ (Jul 14, 2012)

^ It shouldn't matter,


----------



## 青月光 (Jul 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> ^ It shouldn't matter,



Very well.

But, if you hate on someone?s favorite character, you?re encouraging flamebaiting. And according to the rules, that?s not allowed.


----------



## EJ (Jul 14, 2012)

It's not hating it's pointing out his flaws.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 14, 2012)

Although this is going off topic, I thought I'd briefly intervene in your argument, Legendary Uchiha. 

It's only flame-baiting when the person who makes said thread is completely bias and shows no consideration of any of the characters positives. A fair thread that is made to high-light a characters flaws and cons, with a civil, unbiased attitude shouldn't be disallowed in my opinion, that way people can actually have a proper discussion. The problem is that such things are rarely made . . . almost all threads to point out character flaws are one sided and are made by unintelligent, raging trolls.​


----------



## T-Bag (Jul 14, 2012)

yeah im against going into a thread and seeing countless posts be deleted. i'd like to see what went down.

everything else is good


----------



## Naruto (Jul 14, 2012)

Seph said:


> Erm, when's the poll with this thread's suggestions coming? Nothing's changed.



Just keep the suggestions coming for now. I'll comb through things soon and try to have a poll ready. Then I will bring it to the mods who have been active, because in my mind they have more of a say in this than I do.


----------



## Final Jutsu (Jul 14, 2012)

too many itachi fans.  Also, you need to allow some tier threads.  They make good discussion sometimes.


----------



## KAKASHI10 (Jul 14, 2012)

I just want to know why no one commented on my suggestions, or the suggestions that are worth considering. 
I feel I was neglected by the mods.  O wait I'm not a women, forget what I just said


----------



## EJ (Jul 14, 2012)

Final Jutsu said:


> too many itachi fans.  Also, you need to allow some tier threads.  They make good discussion sometimes.



I agree with this. An anti Itachi thread can't even be made now, even if it's just pointing out some flaw of his.

If Itachi seems an inch taller though, a thread is allowed about it with comments saying "Oh yes! All the more so Itachi can tower over us more!"


----------



## Hero (Jul 14, 2012)

I would like to see less bias with threads that are trashed. Or have mods actually review a thread without mindlessly trashing it because they mistook it for a copy of another


----------



## Raiden (Jul 14, 2012)

Jad said:


> And there is no point in personal messaging them because they will NEVER, and I mean EVER, feel they are in the wrong. They are very conceited in attitude.



Great point in your objection...though most topics do revolve around Itachi's strength. Assuming you're talking about members here though, this happens most of the time anyway lol.


----------



## 青月光 (Jul 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> It's not hating it's pointing out his flaws.



I see only one problem with that. Every character has flaws, yet you choose specifically Itachi.

Itachi shouldn?t be given any more attention regarding his flaws than any other character. If you focus on only one character, talking only about his flaws and not his virtues , again and again, then it?s considered flamebaiting, even if you say that you?re not hating.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Although this is going off topic, I thought I'd briefly intervene in your argument, Legendary Uchiha.
> 
> It's only flame-baiting when the person who makes said thread is completely bias and shows no consideration of any of the characters positives. A fair thread that is made to high-light a characters flaws and cons, with a civil, unbiased attitude shouldn't be disallowed in my opinion, that way people can actually have a proper discussion. The problem is that such things are rarely made . . . almost all threads to point out character flaws are one sided and are made by unintelligent, raging trolls.​




100% agreed.

It?s a shame that something like this happens, more often than it should.


----------



## Rawri (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm really happy with this section!


----------



## T-Bag (Jul 15, 2012)

Final Jutsu said:


> too many itachi fans.  Also, you need to allow some tier threads.  They make good discussion sometimes.





Flow said:


> I agree with this. An anti Itachi thread can't even be made now, even if it's just pointing out some flaw of his.
> 
> If Itachi seems an inch taller though, a thread is allowed about it with comments saying "Oh yes! All the more so Itachi can tower over us more!"



itachi fans run this section deal with it


----------



## EJ (Jul 15, 2012)

Legendary Uchiha said:


> I see only one problem with that. Every character has flaws, yet you choose specifically Itachi.



Why should this matter? Other characters spark interest and debate. Why should I talk about some character I could care less about? And this isn't even the case, I make threads for other characters.


----------



## 青月光 (Jul 15, 2012)

Flow said:


> Why should this matter? Other characters spark interest and debate. Why should I talk about some character I could care less about? And this isn't even the case, I make threads for other characters.



You just need to understand that making anti-Itachi threads ,or any other character for that matter, over and over again, hating again and again is not the way to go.

It just incite bad and inappropiate responses from the character?s fandom.


----------



## Black☆Star (Jul 15, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> itachi fans run this section deal with it



That's why this section is bad


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (Jul 15, 2012)

Legendary Uchiha said:


> You just need to understand that making  anti-Itachi threads ,or any other character for that matter, over and  over again, hating again and again is not the way to go.
> 
> It just incite bad and inappropiate responses from the character?s fandom.



Itachi fans flooding the forum with Itachi-oriented threads designed to  brainwash or troll, and hijacking other threads, and making character  bashing threads instigates anti-Itachi threads. The Itachi fandom are  making themselves pariahs on the forums. 



Black☆Star said:


> That's why this section is bad



Yup, that's exactly why.


----------



## AlphaRooster (Jul 15, 2012)

Nobody rules crap. Shitty threads are simply based on the manga current arc. Uchiha has had the run the last month or so, when the story fixes on another character it'll be wank threads to those.

  You shouldn't stop these type of threads, only control them. I mean, most regulars here know who has what opinions on what characters. If somebody with some type of uchiha symbol in their name makes a thread, most likely it's a wank thread. The issue isn't the thread, it's the naruto fan that post in it, and vice versa. People love the confrontation and they love to bitch about it. It is the very essence of the internet.

  So a Mod should simply control the amount of these threads, and kill those that go to far. Wankers and trolls are easy to spot, people just need to stop giving them a hand to wank with, and stop feeding the trolls.


----------



## EJ (Jul 15, 2012)

Legendary Uchiha said:


> You just need to understand that making anti-Itachi threads ,or any other character for that matter, over and over again, hating again and again is not the way to go.



This is a manga discussion. If it is relevant to the manga, and is done in the light with manga facts, we should be allowed to make anti Itachi threads.

This is the main reason why this section is down the gutter right now. Too many fans are allowed to troll up a thread with "HEIL ITACHI HE THE BEST HE MAKES YOUR CHARACTER LOOK BAD", but not a single anti Itachi thread is allowed to be made.


----------



## Zenith (Jul 15, 2012)

I still have to hear a response from any of the staff as to why someone on a free forum can't make a thread wanking his favourite character in the specific section dedicated to the manga talk,especially when it's something related to the recent developments in the ongoing manga


But also the problem with all this stuff about bait threads and the bullshit banning spree in the Library is that people take themselves way too seriously,and get too emtionally attached to paper scraps

Can someone tell me objectively why a thread talking about X character gets locked because the fandom of Y felt it was bashing their fav paper scrap?

Doesn't that fall into the liberty of a said person to make such threads?

I think the job of a moderator is to moderate,not dictate.When you mix up the 2 you fall into the power abuse category,especially when members make threads for the sake of getting a genuine laugh(I'm looking at you seph) and they lose their ability to make threads because of certain sensitive pricks can't take a piss without getting their shoulders wet

As for the swarm of Itachi threads,or any other character per say if the topics can converge they should be merged and not locked right away



Black☆Star said:


> That's why this section is bad





> Yup, that's exactly why.



not exactly because of that

it's the lack of common sense and reasoning

tough this fault doesn't fall on the staff(at least this I can give them),but on the members of this section

the reverse opposite of this can be also applied,as in anti X threads can be peacefully made,as it's well the nardo discussion section and folks should be entitled to state their opinion,however deranged and outlandish it might be (I'm looking at you Flow)




UltimateDeadpool said:


> Itachi fans flooding the forum with Itachi-oriented threads designed to  brainwash or troll, and hijacking other threads, and making character  bashing threads instigates anti-Itachi threads. The Itachi fandom are  making themselves pariahs on the forums



with your choice of wording it sounds like the fact that Itachi has a large fandom is a bad thing

if there's x number of itachi wank,there is no problem if there's y amount of anti itachi wank threads

you dig yo?

I don't see a problem,and lol at brainwashing


----------



## EJ (Jul 15, 2012)

You fail to realize I was banned for making anti Itachi thread for "trolling", when all I did was defend the points in my thread. The people who posted Itachi images and said "ALL HEIL THE KING" nothing was done to them.

All of my threads made in this section minus about two in the past months were all serious/logical.


----------



## 青月光 (Jul 15, 2012)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> Itachi fans flooding the forum with Itachi-oriented threads designed to  brainwash or troll, and hijacking other threads, and making character  bashing threads instigates anti-Itachi threads. The Itachi fandom are  making themselves pariahs on the forums.





Flow said:


> This is a manga discussion. If it is relevant to the manga, and is done in the light with manga facts, we should be allowed to make anti Itachi threads.
> 
> This is the main reason why this section is down the gutter right now. Too many fans are allowed to troll up a thread with "HEIL ITACHI HE THE BEST HE MAKES YOUR CHARACTER LOOK BAD", but not a single anti Itachi thread is allowed to be made.



I?ll give a simple example to mark out the differences.

We?re walking down the street and all that, then we cross by a person that we know, that person starts talking to us about someone close to us, let?s say our mother or father. It?s all cool, we don?t have a problem with that, after all it?s a good thing. No harm done, we even get happy for that right? (wank)

What if that person starts talking trash about our mother or father? You just don?t accept it, no one would, you start defending the person which you like. If the guy takes it too far, you might even start fighting. There?s also a law that penalizes difamation. The thing is, if someone starts talking trash about something/someone you like, you just don?t let it slip. (hate)

That?s the difference. And some persons take the manga very seriously.That?s why anti-anything hate threads are given more moderation.


----------



## EJ (Jul 15, 2012)

Mother and father =/= fictional character.

Horrible comparison. I should be allowed to make as many anti Itachi threads as the next Itachi fan who wants to shove down "Why Itachi is King version 354562362356234362362365353453534534.4454"


----------



## 青月光 (Jul 15, 2012)

Flow said:


> Mother and father =/= fictional character.
> 
> Horrible comparison. I should be allowed to make as many anti Itachi threads as the next Itachi fan who wants to shove down "Why Itachi is King version 354562362356234362362365353453534534.4454"



It was to make a point how anyone doesn?t allow/like trash talking about something we like, and not be taken literally, and you failed to see it, i can?t believe it.


----------



## EJ (Jul 15, 2012)

I skimmed through it, because what you were saying had no compelling argument what so ever.

Thanks for proving you're a troll though. Carry on, I could care less.


----------



## Naruto (Jul 15, 2012)

No flamebaiting, please.


----------



## ?Sharingan Squid? (Jul 15, 2012)

Trash the whole section i say.


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (Jul 15, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> with your choice of wording it sounds like the fact that Itachi has a large fandom is a bad thing
> 
> if there's x number of itachi wank,there is no problem if there's y amount of anti itachi wank threads
> 
> ...



That's the craziest thing, it's the same handful of posters doing it. Nikushimi, Divinstrosity, Grimmjowsensei, T-Bag, Seph, KakashiHatake, lately KyuubiYondaime, and a couple others. Itachi doesn't necessarily have a huge fanbase here, not really bigger than many of the other fandoms, it's just that his fandom consists of a small group of overly vocal and aggressive fans; more so than any other fanbase. One of those that I mentioned, T-Bag, actually admitted to be trolling on I think two occasions. Others, like LegendaryUchiha, said that he just does it for fun... but this is a fansite, it's serious business! lol.

And I call it "brainwashing" because when you have them making a dozen topics a week trying to convince everyone that Itachi is a god mode  mary sue that is can't lose to anyone and is even > Madara, it's starting to look like a cult. They even make topics relating to Itachi in the Telegrams where Itachi has absolutely no relation to the chapter what so ever. 



Legendary Uchiha said:


> I?ll give a simple example to mark out the differences.
> 
> We?re walking down the street and all that, then we cross by a person  that we know, that person starts talking to us about someone close to  us, let?s say our mother or father. It?s all cool, we don?t have a  problem with that, after all it?s a good thing. No harm done, we even  get happy for that right? (wank)
> 
> ...



You have a point, the problem though is that Itachi threads tend to be  anti-every other character. To give Itachi his wank, all other  characters have to get trashed. This alienates other fandoms and causes  the Itachi hate, either hate towards the character or hate towards the  fanbase, which often become blurred in posts or topics since to call  Itachi fans out you have to attack their obsession. 



Flow said:


> Mother and father =/= fictional character.
> 
> Horrible comparison. I should be allowed to make as many anti Itachi  threads as the next Itachi fan who wants to shove down "Why Itachi is  King version 354562362356234362362365353453534534.4454"



Indeed.


----------



## EJ (Jul 17, 2012)

SaiST said:


> Flambaiting this, flamebaiting that... WARGH!
> 
> Guys, if you don't like Seph's opinions, however controversial they may be, the easy and less frustrating option here is to simply ignore them.
> 
> ...




The sensitivity is too damn high. Even a mod of this section implies it


----------



## Rios (Jul 17, 2012)

What I dont like is the pro/anti bias some mods seem to have. And what I mean is trashing a thread as a flamebait if it presents a character in a negative light but allowing threads like Itachi being invincible and Minato being untouchable, which are clearly intended as they > your favorite character. 

Other than that I dont see any problem. Most Itachi fans are the same to me so they dont give me any trouble(hating people for loving a fictional character is dumb anyway). Hell, the Hiruzen wank was what irritated me the most in the past but I eventually got over it rather easily  .


----------



## Hossaim (Jul 17, 2012)

Am the only one who has legit barley seen anything getting closed recently?

Tier lists would be cool tough.


----------



## Rios (Jul 17, 2012)

Oh hell no, tier list threads are awful. We have been already given a pretty good idea where each character stands, so I dont see a reason to read a tier least for better understanding, or making one for bragging rights.

For example, we know that Jiraiya and Itachi are on a(roughly) similar level, or 1-2 tiers above/below each other depending on the tier list. The catch? Each person will push the character they like up the ladder and of course the fan of the opposing character wouldnt like that.

It gets worse when different tier names are used by different people, instead of them using the same one. The ninja stats system, even though its awful, still brings all results together. Now we have something like "low kage tier" without any explanation what this tier represents.

So all its left is "this character is above that character, I must argue!" . 

Last point is simple - there is already a tier list in the Battledome with points jutsus and all. A justified list made by many people.

While I dont give a shit about person X's tier list, watching a whole thread devolving into personal battles over the strength of certain characters is......a tad bit worse than boring. Annoying.


----------



## EJ (Jul 17, 2012)

"Itachi is a fucked up brother"

"SO WHAT!? LOL HE IS STRONGER THAN UR FAV CHARACTER THATS ALL THAT MATTERS LOLOLOLOL"


----------



## T-Bag (Jul 17, 2012)

Flow said:


> You fail to realize I was banned for making anti Itachi thread for "trolling", when all I did was defend the points in my thread. The people who posted Itachi images and said "ALL HEIL THE KING" nothing was done to them.
> 
> All of my threads made in this section minus about two in the past months were all serious/logical.



because "trolling" is trolling, thats why u got banned. why should itachi fans get banned for making threads about their favorite character?


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (Jul 17, 2012)

Rios said:


> Oh hell no, tier list threads are awful. We have been already given a pretty good idea where each character stands, so I dont see a reason to read a tier least for better understanding, or making one for bragging rights.
> 
> For example, we know that Jiraiya and Itachi are on a(roughly) similar level, or 1-2 tiers above/below each other depending on the tier list. The catch? Each person will push the character they like up the ladder and of course the fan of the opposing character wouldnt like that.
> 
> ...



Aside from tiers being biased, I personally hate micro-tiers like the one you presented: "low kage tier." Like you said, what explanation is there to what qualifications a tier like that possesses? How do you even qualify it? Power as a whole is entirely subjective anyway, and some characters present more problems for certain characters than they do others. 

Take Sasuke vs. Deidara, based purely on that fight one may be able to conclude how powerful both of them are, but can you really? Sasuke won, sure, but is he more powerful? And how can we tell exactly how powerful Sasuke is from winning that encounter? Sasuke for instance had a huge advantage, his Raitons damn-near crippled Deidara since it rendered his clay bombs useless, which his entire fighting style revolves around. Without Raiton, how long would Sasuke had survived? Why didn't Deidara either start the fight with his village buster C3 or use it early on, or even use it at all? If Deidara used it before Sasuke figured out the Raiton weakness, Sasuke would had been a goner.

So there are a lot of factors to consider when "ranking" characters, and it's when a lot of bias shows up. Again, using Deidara as an example. Many people seem to consider him low-mid Kage-level, yet exalt Nagato to high-Kage or higher largely because of his ability to wipe out a village- Deidara possesses the same ability, which shows either bias or just not being very accurate in assessments. Not only Deidara, others have village-busting abilities too such as Bee and Madara. 

That's why I think micro tiers are just too hard to actually try to do without playing favoritism, and we should just stick with Kishimoto's tier system: Genin, Chuunin, Special Jonin, Jonin, Kage, and Rikudou. How does this system work? A Kage has the best chance of beating another Kage, a Jonin has a smaller chance, and anything less than that has almost no hope.


----------



## EJ (Jul 17, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> because "trolling" is trolling, thats why u got banned. why should itachi fans get banned for making threads about their favorite character?



You've self admitted you have trolled before. You are in no right to say "why should Itachi fans get banned?"

when I was banned for "Making too many anti Itachi threads and for trolling" 

The mod Alfro or whatever his name was banned me. I asked him where I was trolling at. He never responded. Another mod told me "Fpr the threads you made". They couldn't pin point where exactly I was "trolling" though.

This section is shitified by the undeniable wank of Itachi. There are known trolls who take pleasure in this too, which makes the section not only unfair, but unfun for others as well. Then they have the nerve to report another member for making fun of Itachi, NOT EVEN that. 

They criticize Itachi, and fans can not take it so much, so what do they do? They report it to the mods. 

This section thrives on the difference of opinions. This isn't some pro fc dedicated towards one character. And to take that away from other users is unfair, it should be composed of different arguments, different fan bases, and different reasoning.

Not reporting people for dissing your favorite character.


----------



## Revolution (Jul 17, 2012)

I hope the moderators are prepaired for massive spoiler leaks after Tobi's mask comes off.  I have a feeling I will find out who Tobi is before I get to read the chapter.  People will post it in the title rather then ". . ."


----------



## Superstars (Jul 17, 2012)

This section is better than the one piece section. At least we get variety in the library [yes we have the itachi/uchiha fanclub but you have others as well to combat that]. When Kishimoto is not on his game people over in here call it like it is. They don't nuthug like the Oda section, regardless of what he sends in the mail [I mean people try to turn bowels into ground beef over there?]. I think this section is second best, because the Bleach library section is the funniest.


----------



## Vice (Jul 17, 2012)

1. No more Itachi. Period.

2. Tier list subforum.


----------



## Lelouch71 (Jul 17, 2012)

I don't come to NF as much as I used to but it seems better. There are still your occasional idiot bashing characters just to bait the fans or those making Itachi/Minato praising threads but over all the place less chaotic than it was a year ago.


----------



## Jiraiya4Life (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm really enjoying the library! Awesome Job I'd say!


----------



## Gilgamesh (Jul 17, 2012)

Ban all the uchiha fans, section will improve 100X


----------



## T-Bag (Jul 18, 2012)

Flow said:


> You've self admitted you have trolled before. You are in no right to say "why should Itachi fans get banned?"
> 
> when I was banned for "Making too many anti Itachi threads and for trolling"
> 
> ...



i got banned for trolling a couple of times. sometimes i dont because it's not as bad

u got banned because u happened to be butthurt and went a little overboard


----------



## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> i got banned for trolling a couple of times. sometimes i dont because it's not as bad
> 
> u got banned because u happened to be butthurt and went a little overboard



I got banned for making two anti Itachi threads, and having to argue with Itachi fans (trolls) about his character.

You are severely missing the point. No, not because of "You were trolling". It's apparent now you could care less of the actual fairness of the section, and only care about people making fun of your favorite character (Itachi). 

I notice how not a single Uchia/Itachi fan has stated "Yes, it is unfair how people TRIED desperately to troll you in your threads that you made and you were the only one banned"

even more worth of why this section is getting shitty:



A chapter, that has NOTHING to do with Itachi T-bag, and you decided to make one about Itachi sitting down.

Itachi fans do not even hide the fact that their love for this character effects the section.



just what the hell


And some of you want to know why we are tired of Itachi fans? Threads like these, that are allowed to be made and taken seriously, but threads destroying and bringing great reason why Itachi sucks is not allowed .


----------



## Seph (Jul 19, 2012)

People get banned for wanking Itachi all the time (like me).


----------



## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

No, they don't. Only you.


----------



## Naruto (Jul 19, 2012)

I'm sure you all realize we have no intention of outlawing Itachi-fandom/hatred. We've heard your feedback on how we handle it from both sides of the fence and will make sure we poll it for you guys to vote on what can be changed there. It will obviously pertain to punishments at large and not just Itachi-centric disputes.


----------



## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

Just get rid of the blatant Itachi wank.

I showed good reason why Itachi was a flawed character, and yet the Alfro (whatever his name is) mod closed my threads and banned me. Self admitted trolls like Tbag were able to escape, and I'm sure they weren't even warned.

But yes, go fetch me the Itachi wank threads. Let's discuss why Itachi's hair would look better in an afro or something, on a chapter that has nothing to do with Itachi.

I can't believe people laugh and say "LOL WHY U HATE ON ITACHI??"

they are the reason. 

Also, get new modship. No offense,  but the one here seems to be biased.


----------



## Seph (Jul 19, 2012)

Flow said:


> No, they don't. Only you.



Niku, Grimm, T-Bag etc. don't exist anymore?


----------



## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

Self admitted trolls, their own fault.

Niki has even stated at one point "I can't even tell if I'm trolling or not"

at one point .


----------



## Rios (Jul 19, 2012)

Putting limitations on Itachi and his threads will only create more martyrs.........I am all for it XD


----------



## Seph (Jul 19, 2012)

Flow said:


> Self admitted trolls, their own fault.
> 
> Niki has even stated at one point "I can't even tell if I'm trolling or not"
> 
> at one point .



Not true at all. I've gotten banned for responding to someone bashing Itachi by saying "you're not the sharpest pencil in the pencil box" and got banned for 5 days. Niku told SSM12 that he was smarter than he thought and got banned for a few days too. 

The problem here is that the moderators are just too sensitive in general. It's like this is kindergarten.


----------



## Bart (Jul 19, 2012)

This forum deserves a better class of poster. And I'm gonna give it to them!


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## Ezekial (Jul 19, 2012)

It should be a rule that Itachi fans should not be allowed to post serious w@*k threads/posts about him, as it's obviously trolling.


----------



## Seph (Jul 19, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> It should be a rule that Itachi fans should not be allowed to post serious w@*k threads/posts about him, as it's obviously trolling.



Do you really expect people to take your silly opinion seriously? 



Seph said:


> Amaterasu is instant.





			
				Ezekial said:
			
		

> Err no it isn't, and now your getting reported



The guy who reports me for saying Amaterasu is instant.  Let's see what mods think about your opinion.



SaiST said:


> Flambaiting this, flamebaiting that... WARGH!
> 
> Guys, if you don't like Seph's opinions, however controversial they may be, the easy and less frustrating option here is to simply ignore them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kathutet (Jul 19, 2012)

It should be a rule that all extremely devoted Narutards get admin rights.


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## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

Itachi  threads destroying his character is a lot better than "oh my goooorsh!!!!!1!1!1! Did you see itachi sit down this chapter!??!?!?"


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## Naruto (Jul 19, 2012)

I really wish you guys would let go of this Itachi thing.


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## Ezekial (Jul 19, 2012)

Seph said:


> Do you really expect people to take your silly opinion seriously?



Er yes, because i'm a member of these forums.



Seph said:


> The guy who reports me for saying Amaterasu is instant.  Let's see what mods think about your opinion.


I reported you for flame baiting, Nice try though.



Naruto said:


> I really wish you guys would let go of this Itachi thing.



I would but it annoys the hell out of me


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## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I really wish you guys would let go of this Itachi thing.



I really wish you guys would control this itachi wank.


----------



## Naruto (Jul 19, 2012)

Flow said:


> I really wish you guys would control this itachi wank.



On one hand you have people saying we should crack down on this, on the other hand you have people crying censorship.

Clearly the members aren't pleased, but it's not as clear what it is we must do yet. Either way, don't expect some sort of "Itachi policy".


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## Ezekial (Jul 19, 2012)

Naruto said:


> On one hand you have people saying we should crack down on this, on the other hand you have people crying censorship.
> 
> Clearly the members aren't pleased, but it's not as clear what it is we must do yet. Either way, don't expect some sort of "Itachi policy".



Nobody cares about swearing as long as it's no racist or directed at a member, I personally couldn't care less if people swear at me, however a LOT of people get seriously annoyed with all the stupid Itachi threads, take the one in the Telegrams for instance "	Itachi > Juubi. This chapter proves it." MY GOD seriously? Some sort of rule banning stuff like this needs to be done


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## Icognito (Jul 19, 2012)

I say sit back and watch it burn


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## Skywalker (Jul 19, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I really wish you guys would let go of this Itachi thing.


There should be more balance, not 75% Itachi.


----------



## Seph (Jul 19, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> Er yes, because i'm a member of these forums.
> 
> 
> I reported you for flame baiting, Nice try though.
> ...



Respect is earned, not given for free.

AMATERASU IS INSTANT IS FLAMEBAITING?


----------



## Samehada (Jul 19, 2012)

What about this. An All-Itachi main thread. That way if people want to discuss Itachi in the recent chapter, they can do it there. The amount of Itachi threads are a little overwhelming (but since he is now gone, may change). Any actual analysis of Itachi are acceptable of their own thread. Other than that, the remaining Itachi threads most likely would fit better in HoU or Battledome. 

There Itachi-Wank stopped and both sides get a nice solution.


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## Rios (Jul 19, 2012)

You dont understand. Most Itachi fans dont want to actually discuss him with similar minded people, they want to annoy the crap out of the opposition and any other character fandom for that matter.


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## Kathutet (Jul 19, 2012)

Samehada said:


> What about this. An All-Itachi main thread. That way if people want to discuss Itachi in the recent chapter, they can do it there. The amount of Itachi threads are a little overwhelming (but since he is now gone, may change). Any actual analysis of Itachi are acceptable of their own thread. Other than that, the remaining Itachi threads most likely would fit better in HoU or Battledome.
> 
> There Itachi-Wank stopped and both sides get a nice solution.


If this happens I expect to see at least 10 memetic "Itachi is so awesome he got his own thread" posts.


----------



## Raiden (Jul 19, 2012)

I think everyone is overblowing the situation. We just had nearly twenty chapters straight of Itachi. And not just Itachi, Itachi asserting himself as more physically stronger and wiser than Kabuto. Naturally, there's going to be an influx of threads when he's the main focus on the series. And naturally, all the talk about him is going to die down as well as the manga's plot develops on the backs of other characters.


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## Seph (Jul 19, 2012)

Honestly an Itachi sub-forum might be a good idea. Everyone would be happy.


----------



## Ezekial (Jul 19, 2012)

Seph said:


> Respect is earned, not given for free.
> 
> AMATERASU IS INSTANT IS FLAMEBAITING?



Your trying to bait me now, unluckily, child.


----------



## Seph (Jul 19, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> Your trying to bait me now, unluckily, child.



.......LOL

Okay there's something up with this guy.


----------



## ch1p (Jul 19, 2012)

I'm okay with the Library and Telegrams. There might be the usual hate / bait thread, but who cares exacly. Take 5 for a cig, relax and chill, just ignore it and carry on. HoU is much worse and badly handled in comparision.

I do have a question regarding with how duplicated threads are handled though. Sometimes they are closed, sometimes they are merged. Why aren't they all merged? Telegrams usually are, but that's not the same for the Library. Is it because of the pruning and archives? Is it lazyness?


----------



## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

Rios said:


> You dont understand. Most Itachi fans dont want to actually discuss him with similar minded people, they want to annoy the crap out of the opposition and any other character fandom for that matter.



No, they don't.

You're giving a lot of them too much credit. You have your trolls in each fandom, but a lot of them really feel the way they do about Itachi.




Seph said:


> Honestly an Itachi sub-forum might be a good idea. Everyone would be happy.




No, it wouldn't. There are fcs for a reason.


@Naruto, 

no, you have one side that's just entirely annoyed by the way the mods have been banning members like me for being anti Itachi, but allowing self admitted trolls like tbag, and Demo to run free.


----------



## Rios (Jul 19, 2012)

Flow said:


> No, they don't.
> 
> You're giving a lot of them too much credit. You have your trolls in each fandom, but a lot of them really feel the way they do about Itachi.



I never questioned their feelings. What I am aware of however is the constant headbutting with other fandoms, which is the essence of their love. The knowledge that their character is stronger and wiser than the rest without being a full blown asshole with a stick up his ass or heroic immunity and impeccable voice of reason.

In a nutshell: the man who could have walked over everybody else and prevented everything but simply didnt want to.


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## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

Stronger, of course. You can't take that away from a character. Which a lot of the people in the anti Itachi department do. But still, you have users who make threads like "Itachi>10 tails"

That needs to be controlled by the mods though (the fact they try their damn hardest to try and debate with other users that "Itachi > 10 tails")

I have no problem with arguing with a user about this. But when I start getting threats to be thread banned, section banned, or banned, that's when the problem arises.

The mods....they need to step their game up in this section. And no, that doesn't mean ban for the smallest reasons, but not tolerate one side, but tolerate the other.


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## Naruto (Jul 19, 2012)

Okay, we get it, you feel the staff was unjust towards you. Whatever the case may be, it wasn't premeditated. There is no "staff bias" regarding individual characters. Frankly, most of us couldn't give less of a shit which character people are rambling on about.

We aren't deliberately condoning one versus the other. It really doesn't matter.

To be frank, provided the main page isn't flooded with threads on the same subject and users aren't at each other's throats, I really don't care what you do.


----------



## Summers (Jul 19, 2012)

Of course this thread has become about Itachi, funny thing is. Tsunade threads go on longer than this and faster, at 18 pages.

Lets forget him, nothing will change when it comes to that, all y'all can hope for is that now Itachi is dead-dead, things will calm down. His story is done. My advice is just wait it out or ignore.


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## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

Naruto said:


> Okay, we get it.



Except many mods DON'T get it Naruto. This section has had an influx of problems since like.....past 2007. It's always something here.

Why can't anything be fixed?

Why isn't this thread stickied?

Why is this thread just NOW being made?


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## Summers (Jul 19, 2012)

Flow said:


> Except many mods DON'T get it Naruto. This section has had an influx of problems since like.....past 2007. It's always something here.
> 
> Why can't anything be fixed?
> 
> ...



Well we do have a complaints/suggestions thread. Also when threads get stickied people tend to post in them much less, almost instantly. Just look at the success of stickied threads in telegrams. Sticked threads seem to serve as a way to tamper out discussion.


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## Golden Circle (Jul 19, 2012)

I do hope you guys realize that this is a suggestion thread and not a complaint thread.





Summers said:


> Well we do have a complaints/suggestions thread. Also when threads get stickied people tend to post in them much less, almost instantly. Just look at the success of stickied threads in telegrams. Sticked threads seem to serve as a way to tamper out discussion.


Stickies are a very nice idea. Unfortunately one's instinct is to look below the stickies for the latest threads.


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## EJ (Jul 19, 2012)

Ah, Summers does have a point

you too Rainbow Dash


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## Ezekial (Jul 19, 2012)

Some of the Itachi threads aren't that bad TBH, it's a problem when you're trying to have a decent conversation and someone says "Totsuka solos" or " LULZ U SEE DAT ITACHI SOLO NAGATO" it used to be funny 2 or 3 years ago but it's really annoying, I used to love Itachi's character but his "fandom" ruined it... "Itachi > 10 tails"  "Itachi would solo Gokage" seriously, these threads need to be banned


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## Ezekial (Jul 19, 2012)

I'm all for an "Itachi w@*k thread" to be stickied, If Tobi identity threads are to be posted on the sticky then all retarded Itachi threads should have a home, at least then i'll know were they are a thus avoid them.


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## Closet Pervert (Jul 19, 2012)

Could do without the constant "Itachi solos " spam posts, especially on non Itachi threads.





Ezekial said:


> I'm all for an "Itachi w@*k thread" to be stickied, If Tobi identity threads are to be posted on the sticky then all retarded Itachi threads should have a home, at least then i'll know were they are a thus avoid them.


On the condition that the wank elsewhere really would not be tolerated by the mods, that would be great.


----------



## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

Flow said:


> Why can't anything be fixed?



We'll try harder.



> Why isn't this thread stickied?





> Why is this thread just NOW being made?



When I made this thread, it wasn't anything official. As someone already pointed out, a suggestions thread already exists. I had been away from modding for months and I had no idea how things were going so I decided to simply ask you guys, and here we are.

---​
I think there's this idea that we are unwilling to admit our day-to-day mistakes, and that infuriates some of the members. Some build up grudges feeling we are unapproachable, others just assume we take sides.

Pretty much the entire staff has, at one point or another, strongly disagreed with the actions of a fellow mod. What we try to do with it though, is let the person in question deal with it on their own so that we don't create this feeling of segregation and undermine their position with the members of their section. The general unspoken etiquette most of us follow is to bring it up in private so that they can deal with it however they wish. It allows them to save face, is less likely to burn them out, and ensures that they absorb the constructiveness of the criticism instead of feeling like they're being attacked by their own peers.

What I'm trying to explain is that I think a big part of this wall between the members and the staff is a profound lack of communication with the members as a result of all this. Oftentimes we WANT to speak out and intervene in various individual occurrences, but you just have to take my word for it when I say someone always does in some form, it's just that it tends to happen behind closed doors where you can't see it.

In the end I guess what I wanted to say is that we're all guilty of doing it at one point or another. I sure as hell ain't no fucking saint. I've erred. I've had that pointed out to me. And I've taken a stand against others as well. Just as you yourselves are divided in your opinions on what needs to be improved, so are we. But I think the biggest problem is this terrible state of things between the staff and the forumites. Someone earlier said something along the lines of not really giving a shit about any of this, that it's not their obligation. True enough, it isn't, but as much as what I'm about to say may piss a lot of people off, neither is ours. It's literally volunteer work, and we go through a lot of mods over the years precisely because of it.

*TL;DR:*

I'm sorry if we failed you in some way, we're trying to do better. Please try not to take it personally and focus on what needs to be changed for things to improve.

*On topic:*

I would really like to recruit new blood from the Library into the staff. We look for activity and positive attitude above everything else. I'm not taking applications, but I wanted to let everyone know I'm keeping an eye out.


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## Kathutet (Jul 20, 2012)

Flow said:


> Except many mods DON'T get it Naruto. This section has had an influx of problems since like.....past 2007. It's always something here.
> 
> Why can't anything be fixed?
> 
> ...


You can't possibly expect there to be 0 problems when there's a "people factor" around. Can you control people 24/7? Can you control speech? Can you do these things without being a dictator? No. Do it and you'll lose people. Moderators can only clean up the filth that floats around and TRY to prevent that filth from being made. They're literally cleaning up after you, trying not to groan when they find an exceptionally large turd, all while people are pointing at it going "hey here's a huge turd! clean it up".

If moderators hold every member on a really tight leash then there will be cries about how they lose their freedom. If they don't, people will complain moderators are too lazy. That's the problem with a group of people; what is supposed to happen? Will they be okay with decisions taken by others?

My guess is, this thread was made and stickied because they're curious as to how in the blue fuck they're supposed to serve or help a board full of people that are indecisive when it comes to this.


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## Ezekial (Jul 20, 2012)

Naruto said:


> On topic:
> 
> I would really like to recruit new blood from the Library into the staff. We look for activity and positive attitude above everything else. I'm not taking applications, but I wanted to let everyone know I'm keeping an eye out.



I hope you're joking, I don't think even one member in the library should be considered, unless you're going to watch extremely close and follow their every action, mainly all library members are somewhat biased to their favourite characters and are/or incapable of proper etiquette.

I myself am biased towards my favourite characters and have been banned for misconduct simply because I didn't agree with someone's opinion and therefore got angry, even member that I look at and think "Y U NO MOD YET?" have posted outrageously biased posts. TBH I think you look at seeing if any advisors would like their modships back at least then we wont have to worry about posting something about ones favourite character.


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## EJ (Jul 20, 2012)

I see Naruto. Although I' still questionable what goes on behind closed doors, I respect the fact you responded and actually typed out what you feel is going on, and some of the conflicts with members/mods.

I do feel that some mods are biased towards other members, but that is for a different discussion. Not just in this section, but others as well. But again, that's a different section.

I don't mind every once and awhile a "joke" thread about some wank towards another character, or hate. But if the mods allow that to be a thread, but doesn't allow the other....or vice versa that's when there is a problem. 

I don't know hoe exactly you all could mod more people in this section. As someone already stated, there are a lot of biased users in this section (towards their favorite section), and people who hold grudges. 

But I'm sure there are a couple of good well balanced, neutral members in this section.


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## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

If there's such a trust issue about the mod forum, Naruto, why can''t you just make a lower class of mods that don't have as much power but can still help around?

The new class of mods would have the same powers as mods but with the inability to access the mod forum.


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## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

I don't approve of giving people powers without access to the mod lounge. That pretty much says we don't trust them.

I'd sooner advocate for destroying the mod lounge entirely. But *THAT* is most definitely a completely different topic.


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## Glutamminajr (Jul 20, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I would really like to recruit new blood from the Library into the staff. We look for activity and positive attitude above everything else. I'm not taking applications, but I wanted to let everyone know I'm keeping an eye out.



It could be a good idea,maybe the new blood could be beneficial to the section and staff.Who knows.


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## EJ (Jul 20, 2012)

So? They should understand they need to work themselves up in the ranks.

It's just like regular users. We could say that we feel more obliged to see what is being discussed.


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## ch1p (Jul 20, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I would really like to recruit new blood from the Library into the staff. We look for activity and positive attitude above everything else. I'm not taking applications, but I wanted to let everyone know I'm keeping an eye out.



You shouldn't be saying this. You'll get people behaving really nicely despite being scumbags every other day, just to get that position.

Or then, it's a very clever way of taming the Library for a few days. Well played.


----------



## Fay (Jul 20, 2012)

Naruto said:


> *On topic:*
> 
> I would really like to recruit new blood from the Library into the staff. We look for activity and positive attitude above everything else. I'm not taking applications, but I wanted to let everyone know I'm keeping an eye out.



My recommendations would be takL, vered and Klue.


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## Ezekial (Jul 20, 2012)

LMFAO lets see how many attitude changes we can count.


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## Zenith (Jul 20, 2012)

too much sensitivity here

I reiterate not because of the mods in this section tough,but because people can't take a piss without getting their shoulders wet

the sole fact that people argue the existence or not of threads dedicated to a specific character that falls into the naruto cast,is very much and undeniably proof of that


----------



## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

Ch1p said:


> You shouldn't be saying this. You'll get people behaving really nicely despite being scumbags every other day, just to get that position.
> 
> Or then, it's a very clever way of taming the Library for a few days. Well played.



Either way we win


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## Glutamminajr (Jul 20, 2012)

^
Good job then.


----------



## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I don't approve of giving people powers without access to the mod lounge. That pretty much says we don't trust them.
> 
> I'd sooner advocate for destroying the mod lounge entirely. But *THAT* is most definitely a completely different topic.



They could work to gain that trust, just like a promotion in a workplace.

IMO the only reason you don't like the idea is because it probably seems a little eccentric to you for this forum, but it's always a good idea to try new things once in a while.

The same system could be used for the OBD too.


----------



## Kathutet (Jul 20, 2012)

Seph said:


> They could work to gain that trust, just like a promotion in a workplace.
> 
> IMO the only reason you don't like the idea is because it probably seems a little eccentric to you for this forum, but it's always a good idea to try new things once in a while.
> 
> The same system could be used for the OBD too.


If they're gonna work as moderators then they need to communicate with their fellow staff members as well, to avoid making mistakes. Deliberations, asking for help from experienced moderators, problem solving,... That's why the HR is there in the first place.

If they don't have the means to communicate and deliberate with other staff members efficiently, then they're helpless and will eventually fail at the job that's given to them. It would have been a waste of time.


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## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

Kenneth said:


> If they're gonna work as moderators then they need to communicate with their fellow staff members as well, to avoid making mistakes. Deliberations, asking for help from experienced moderators, problem solving,... That's why the HR is there in the first place.
> 
> If they don't have the means to communicate and deliberate with other staff members efficiently, then they're helpless and will eventually fail at the job that's given to them. It would have been a waste of time.



You're acting like it's impossible. 

Make another forum then for the lesser mods. It really is that simple.


----------



## Kathutet (Jul 20, 2012)

Seph said:


> You're acting like it's impossible.
> 
> Make another forum then for the lesser mods. It really is that simple.


You're acting as if it's possible to have a team of moderators doing their jobs properly without communication being present. I know you're trying to find a good alternative/compromise here but nope.avi 


And an alternate forum for the lesser mods... Look, this is making things needlessly complicated. They should either give someone that deserves it the position or wait until someone that deserves it pops up. Else we'll be talking about how we need to make lesser lesser lesser mods that can only sticky threads, in 2014.


----------



## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

Seph said:


> They could work to gain that trust, just like a promotion in a workplace.
> 
> IMO the only reason you don't like the idea is because it probably seems a little eccentric to you for this forum, but it's always a good idea to try new things once in a while.
> 
> The same system could be used for the OBD too.



No, I don't like it because it burdens someone with responsibilities in an environment where we're all supposed to work together - without extending an olive branch that is a token of our trust: to be accepted as one of us.

The idea of a "trial period" is interesting, but ultimately serves little purpose (in my opinion). Anyone could feign reliability just long enough to get access. The way I see it either we trust someone or we don't. Now don't get me wrong, like I said before I WANT to find good candidates. I just want do it right.

Also, my opinion does not necessarily reflect that of the staff at large. Some of us do want to try that method.


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## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

Kenneth said:


> You're acting as if it's possible to have a team of moderators doing their jobs properly without communication being present. I know you're trying to find a good alternative/compromise here but nope.avi
> 
> 
> And an alternate forum for the lesser mods... Look, this is making things needlessly complicated. *They should either give someone that deserves it the position or wait until someone that deserves it pops up. *Else we'll be talking about how we need to make lesser lesser lesser mods that can only sticky threads, in 2014.



How am I acting as if it's possible to "have a team of mods without communication present?" You're putting words in my mouth; not once did I say that.

Bolded part--well, that hasn't been going very well at all, has it? _The staff can't find anyone like that._

The bolded part _is the entire reason why my plan would work_. It ignores the staff tendency to mistrust members on the forum, while at the same time allowing the staff to have more control over KL, and giving DN and SaiST more time to do other things.



> The idea of a "trial period" is interesting, but ultimately serves little purpose (in my opinion). Anyone could feign reliability just long enough to get access.



That's an even bigger problem with the current system that it would be with mine.


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## Kathutet (Jul 20, 2012)

Seph said:


> How am I acting as if it's possible to "have a team of mods without communication present?" You're putting words in my mouth; not once did I say that.
> 
> Bolded part--well, that hasn't been going very well at all, has it? _The staff can't find anyone like that._
> 
> The bolded part _is the entire reason why my plan would work_. It ignores the staff tendency to mistrust members on the forum, while at the same time allowing the staff to have more control over KL, and giving DN and SaiST more time to do other things.


My entire post was all about communication and you said "you act as if it's impossible". So I assumed you meant "you act as if a mod team without communication is impossible". I'm sorry. 

I guess you're right. /concedes
/throws towel in ring
/goes to fight bears on a mountain


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## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

Seph said:


> That's an even bigger problem with the current system that it would be with mine.



I can make the argument that the problem exists regardless. I think I'm not explaining myself very clearly:

We can never know for sure if we're making the right choice, but by welcoming a candidate with open arms we are at least performing a gesture of good faith that might condition that person NOT to betray said trust.

As opposed to forcing people to "prove" themselves to us. I mean what the fuck is that? This isn't a paid job, if anything we're happy to get a new set of hands.


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## Zenith (Jul 20, 2012)

lol Kenneth you're so mellow  

it's a rare sight for someone to concede right away in the nardo library 



people here argue over the tiny irrelevant details to never admit they were wrong


----------



## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

Kenneth is like love wrapped in chocolate.


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## Zenith (Jul 20, 2012)

the number 1 narutard,embraced the nardo character to the fullest


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## Kathutet (Jul 20, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> lol Kenneth you're so mellow
> 
> it's a rare sight for someone to concede right away in the nardo library
> 
> ...


I dunno, it just didn't seem to be worth getting into a flamewar for. I've been in a lot and after a while you're like "yeah, fuck it."


Naruto said:


> Kenneth is like love wrapped in chocolate.


Oh stoppe it you :handwave


Lt Iceman said:


> the number 1 narutard,embraced the nardo character to the fullest


Hello you.

Welcome to my frog wallet.
It's warm in here isn't it *_*


----------



## PikaCheeka (Jul 20, 2012)

Fay said:


> My recommendations would be takL, vered and Klue.



I'm going to drop my annual suggestion of Amaterasu's Son and slink off now.

I would suggest silenceofthelambs but he's on a possibly-permanent break.


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## Zenith (Jul 20, 2012)

> Hello you.
> 
> Welcome to my frog wallet.
> It's warm in here isn't it *_*



yo I don't want to be a frog tough

I wanna be a dragon

I can be

I hope 

I will


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## Kathutet (Jul 20, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> yo I don't want to be a frog tough
> 
> I wanna be a dragon
> 
> ...


you're not a frog
you can be a dragon inside of my frog wallet, and i can be your dovahkiin
the captor of your essence and soul ;_;


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## Zenith (Jul 20, 2012)

then that settles it

tough I'm a wild dragon,the one with long claws and not only that,I'm not sure if you're wallet can make me fit in

if you know what I mean


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## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh my D: **


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## Kathutet (Jul 20, 2012)




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## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

Naruto said:


> I can make the argument that the problem exists regardless. I think I'm not explaining myself very clearly:
> 
> We can never know for sure if we're making the right choice, but by welcoming a candidate with open arms we are at least performing a gesture of good faith that might condition that person NOT to betray said trust.
> 
> As opposed to forcing people to "prove" themselves to us. I mean what the fuck is that? This isn't a paid job, if anything we're happy to get a new set of hands.



You're explaining yourself perfectly clearly; consider two scenarios:

1. Where Problem A exists 100%.
2. Where Problem A exists 50%.

My plan would lower the amount of damage of the problem of "people tricking the mods by acting reliably" by at least a decent amount. What would you prefer, Naruto? We can never get rid of the problem completely, by 100%; the best we can do is to debilitate it.

You seem to have a moral dilemma with this problem rather than a practical one, so I can't really take your argument seriously. I just don't like moral reasons as counterarguments in general because they're subjective (unless they involve serious things like murder, etc.). I think it's better to be practical and have members prove themselves.


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## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

That you don't agree with me is fair enough, my problem is indeed with the morality before the practicality. But like I said, I don't believe this would help.


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## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

There seem to be a few people that agree, so it might be fair to at least consider it.

There's a limitless amount of things one can do, like to get people with only the power to sort through reports in the report thread to lift weight off the mods' shoulders.


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## Ezekial (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm laughing so hard at Seph right now, the way you write has miraculous changed LMFAO...

Surely all this mod talk crap is nonsense anyway, just sort out the problems you have now instead of making new ones by adding new mods which most likely will not happen as it's probably the Admins call.


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## dream (Jul 20, 2012)

> Surely all this mod talk crap is nonsense anyway, just sort out the problems you have now instead of making new ones by adding new mods which most likely will not happen as it's probably the Admins call.



The entire staff decides on new mods, the process should usually be started with a section's moderator(s) saying that there is a need for new mods in his/her/their section.  Some names are thrown around and the staff decides which person they wouldn't mind modding.  A single art section moderator has just as much ability to prevent someone from being modding, in the Konoha Library, as an admin would.


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## Ezekial (Jul 20, 2012)

It doesn't matter who gets it as it would cause many to be angry with the choice especially if it's someone who posts often in KL, imagine if I got it? LMFAO total uproar would ensue, like I said, just have them fix the current problems i.e Itachi spam, trolling etc.

Imagine though, me a mod... If Geg can become an Smod then anything is possible lol.


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## Naruto (Jul 20, 2012)

Seph said:


> There seem to be a few people that agree, so it might be fair to at least consider it.



I think I already said this, but I don't speak for the entire staff.


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## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

I doubt anyone is going to pay attention to this post, but I don't like sitting around with my thumb up my ass so I'll just make a long-winded post anyway.

*5 Ways to Improve the Library:*

1. *Lesser mods.* I've already explained this, but I guess I'll do it again. It seems like this would be a good idea not only for the Library, but also for sections like the NBD and OBD. Basically, the idea is to create a new class of moderators that don't have the power to access the current mod forum, but a new one where they can communicate with other mods. The main problem the current staff has with modding members seems to be trust; this would alleviate that problem.

This opens the path to have more democratic choices on mods as there's relatively little to risk; in its most extreme, we can even ask members to pick mods themselves. We can give these "picked mods" a trial period to prove themselves and then mod them in time. It's just like the modern work place where people gain promotions and such based on trust.

One can argue that it's wrong to mod people when it's a volunteer job that doesn't gain anyone any money. However, people in general tend to be glad to have the opportunity to have so much power over other fellow members anyway, so they don't really mind. The fact that they may promote in time will motivate them to try harder and succeed.

A problem with the current system is that members can act reliable and trick mods into giving them power. This plan would allow them more time to discern whether this member is trustworthy or not without risking anything at all.

2. *Lighten up.* The current Library and NBD is just like kindergarten. I don't fucking come here to be patronized and kicked out based on my slightly rude behavior; I come here to passionately discuss my interests and disinterests. Rude behavior is a part of being a fan of something in general.

We have people like Ezekial who, due to the atmosphere around here, have become extremely sensitive, to the point of claiming that saying "Amaterasu is instant" is flamebait. Even a current mod had to come into the thread in order to disagree with him. If we have an atmosphere that encourages people to argue passionately over what they love, then people like Ezekial will hopefully soften up.

3. *Give out more warnings instead of instantly banning people.* I don't think I deserved to get banned for 5 days simply for calling someone "not the sharpest pencil in the pencil box" over claiming ludicrous things about the thing I'm passionate about. I don't think Niku deserved to get banned for a few days for telling someone that he was smarter than he thought. 

What should be done in these situations is to warn these members, and if this behavior continues for a while, ban them. I think that will be more effective overall.

4. *Ask the members for feedback.* What I would do is make a thread 5 days before every end of the month and just ask them if they're happy or not. This would solve the current problem of the staff being unable to communicate at all with members.

5. *Make a thread for the character getting the most spotlight.* For example, Itachi, who was gaining a ridiculous amount of spotlight a few chapters ago, would have an official "Itachi Praise" thread. Currently it's Tobi, I suppose, so he would get one as well for now. I think that would solve the problem of people complaining about others posting incessant wank threads.


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## Ferno (Jul 20, 2012)

Konoha Library has slowly become like the House of Uzumaki, the only difference being in the content allowed for discussion. Just looking at the first page of posts, I see

_Kabuto X Anko = Orochimaru's new parents?
How tough is Kurama's meat?
Whoses face do you prefer to see? Kakashi or Tobi?
Vote for biggest troll/asspul in the manga_

and for me personally, I don't have interest in them, but I know and respect that others enjoy casual chat on these topics. The number of these threads however eventually demotivated me and I became inactive in the Library. It's difficult to find an intelligent thread that has some thought put into it, whether it be essay based or comical. They exist but are just hard to see, as they are heavily dominated by the casual ones.

I would like to see a new feature which allows you to add either 'casual' or 'articulate' to your thread title. The user would decide this -- when they create a thread there would be an option of either type, and it would be to the left of the thread title input bar. This way, when users browse through the Library, they can easily locate what they're interested in. The add-ons would be bold, and use the cold colours blue (*casual*) and purple (*articulate*), as opposed to blue and red, to avoid one receiving more attention than the other. This works both ways; I've seen users in the past reply tl;dr to essay threads. There are clearly two types of users in the Library and it would be foolish to ignore this.


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## Rios (Jul 20, 2012)

Or the user can put [Theory], [Essay], [Only post here if you are particularly verbose, politely use paragraphs and write more than one sentence in them while addressing every point I made in my equally long opening post, quotes not included] like they've done before.

I mean why not? If you feel your thread is so damn awesome you can surely input this in the title or using bold text in the very first line.

Or we can go with signal lights or something.


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## dream (Jul 20, 2012)

> A problem with the current system is that members can act reliable and trick mods into giving them power. This plan would allow them more time to discern whether this member is trustworthy or not without risking anything at all.



Said trust problem won't be made less severe, or at least not by a significant amount, with this suggestion in my opinion.  If someone is acting more reliable to trick the mods into making them a moderator then keeping up their act for a longer time, which won't necessarily be the case all the time, won't really be too difficult.  Heck, it probably will be even easier for them to keep up that act since said member(s) will know with certainty that he or she is a possible moderator candidate.


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## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Said trust problem won't be made less severe, or at least not by a significant amount, with this suggestion in my opinion.  If someone is acting more reliable to trick the mods into making them a moderator then keeping up their act for a longer time, which won't necessarily be the case all the time, won't really be too difficult.  Heck, it probably will be even easier for them to keep up that act since said member(s) will know with certainty that he or she is a possible moderator candidate.



It'll force them into a more personal communication with other staff members (which will force these fakers to try even harder to deceive the mods), so I do think it'll help, since staff members are people and not just robots who can't discern other people's motives.


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## Ferno (Jul 20, 2012)

Rios said:


> Or the user can put [Theory], [Essay], [Only post here if you are particularly verbose, politely use paragraphs and write more than one sentence in them while addressing every point I made in my equally long opening post, quotes not included] like they've done before.



The problem with that is the Library becomes too scholarly and it has a less _fun_ atmosphere. Then there is also the fact that you can have a one liner theory that didn't even take ten seconds to write. Same goes for the essay. I think it's better to distinguish by casual and articulate. 'Articulate' is better than theory or essay because it doesn't associate itself with educated individuals and their seriousness, it rather refers to the time and care taken to produce a thread. You can have an edit thread that is articulate, adapting 8+ pages, and joke/humorous threads that are articulate, such as Hutman's .


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## dream (Jul 20, 2012)

Seph said:


> It'll force them into a more personal communication with other staff members (which will force these fakers to try even harder to deceive the mods), so I do think it'll help, since staff members are people and not just robots who can't discern other people's motives.



Yes, the staff isn't full of robots who can't discern the motives of people but it is difficult to truly know the motives of others especially when the communication is through a medium such as text.  The good "fakers" will at best arouse only some light suspicion in some staff members but said suspicion is just as likely as being caused by someone who is completely trustworthy.  I only really see the blatantly obvious fakers being the ones who will truly run into problems if they were forced into more communication with the staff but the staff certainly doesn't require more personal communication with them to know their motives.  Or perhaps I'm overestimating the possible "fakers" on NF.


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## Seph (Jul 20, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> Yes, the staff isn't full of robots who can't discern the motives of people but it is difficult to truly know the motives of others especially when the communication is through a medium such as text.  The good "fakers" will at best arouse only some light suspicion in some staff members but said suspicion is just as likely as being caused by someone who is completely trustworthy.  I only really see the blatantly obvious fakers being the ones who will truly run into problems if they were forced into more communication with the staff but the staff certainly doesn't require more personal communication with them to know their motives.  Or perhaps I'm overestimating the possible "fakers" on NF.



I've noticed many pathological liars, headcases, borderlines, such and such and such on NF simply via text. I'm not 100% reliable on discovering people like these, of course, but I've gained this ability thanks to being on the internet for 8 years.

The problem is always going to exist no matter what, and I don't think you can deny that my solution wouldn't help at all.


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## T-Bag (Jul 20, 2012)

Flow said:


> Just get rid of the blatant Itachi wank.
> 
> I showed good reason why Itachi was a flawed character, and yet the Alfro (whatever his name is) mod closed my threads and banned me. Self admitted trolls like Tbag were able to escape, and I'm sure they weren't even warned.



i said i was a troll?

anyway...i made a thread about itachi sitting because he was pimpin. kishimoto made sure he got most of the focus for a reason, so i made a thread to appreciate the awesomeness of itachi 



Seph said:


> The problem here is that the moderators are just too sensitive in general. It's like this is kindergarten.


true, sometimes its hard for me to give my opinion straight up without the fear of getting banned



Naruto said:


> I really wish you guys would let go of this Itachi thing.


they mad bcuz their favorite character isnt appreciated as much/dont have the type of support for their favorite character like itachi fans do. oh well 

a loved character will always be talked about, present or gone. itachi has a BIG dick fanbase 



Ezekial said:


> Nobody cares about swearing as long as it's no racist or directed at a member, I personally couldn't care less if people swear at me, however a LOT of people get seriously annoyed with all the stupid Itachi threads, take the one in the Telegrams for instance "	Itachi > Juubi. This chapter proves it." MY GOD seriously? Some sort of rule banning stuff like this needs to be done



dont go in a thread you think is stupid, simple. and your example is a non-itachi fan imitating an actual itachi fan lol. he was joking. if u cant take a joke, then by all means exit the fuck out


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## Jeefus (Jul 27, 2012)

I think Ferno's "casual" and "articulate" ideas have good merit and should really be considered.

@Naruto

I think by now the references to Itachi are him being used as a generic
example of what has been happening because, as of the beginning of all the discussions, that character was dominate in the library.


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## Naruto (Jul 27, 2012)

I want you guys to know that I haven't forgotten about this thread. Apologies that it's taking so long.


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## EJ (Jul 27, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> i said i was a troll?



You've stated you are a troll, and I've posted some of your post or threads clearly indicating you were one.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. 




> anyway...i made a thread about itachi sitting because he was pimpin. kishimoto made sure he got most of the focus for a reason, so i made a thread to appreciate the awesomeness of itachi



And this is the problem with this section.

Naruto, if post like these are made:



How can you not expect people to make anti threads and have them locked? There has to be a cut down on non logical, blatantly opinionated, and "troll" post such as these in this section



> true, sometimes its hard for me to give my opinion straight up without the fear of getting banned



No, it isn't. You state your opinion all the times, and people get banned when they have had enough of it and call you out on it. 


> they mad bcuz their favorite character isnt appreciated as much/dont have the type of support for their favorite character like itachi fans do. oh well



No one cares if their fictional character isn't "appreciated" as much. This is something many of you don't understand.

It's when "ITACHI IS KING YEAAEYAEAEYAEY ITACHI" is shoved down everyone eyes, that has nothing to do with Itachi.

It's users like this who simply go to the "Well, you're just mad because ITACHI is a lot stronger than YOUR favorite character"

No, it isn't. I have no favorite characters in this manga currently, but even I see the Itachi wank as annoying at this point. 


> a loved character will always be talked about, present or gone. itachi has a BIG dick fanbase



Naruto, look at this post. 



> dont go in a thread you think is stupid, simple. and your example is a non-itachi fan imitating an actual itachi fan lol. he was joking. if u cant take a joke, then by all means exit the fuck out



lol, it's always the opposite sides fault. huh?

oh, and Naruto. Just to make sure you understand what type of user is giving you advice:



> a loved character will always be talked about, present or gone. itachi has a BIG dick fanbase







> a loved character will always be talked about, present or gone. itachi has a BIG dick fanbase





> a loved character will always be talked about, present or gone. itachi has a BIG dick fanbase





> a loved character will always be talked about, present or gone. itachi has a BIG dick fanbase




T bag stated this.


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## Mider T (Jul 29, 2012)

So are you guys even close to a decision yet?


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## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 29, 2012)

Mider T said:


> So are you guys even close to a decision yet?


Recent events have taken aback much of the staff. Please, allow us some time to get back up to speed on things.
Thank you.


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## Naruto (Jul 29, 2012)

To be blunt, a friend of ours (and staff member) recently died. Don't let that discourage you from further discussing issues, submit suggestions or even ask us for a response. I promised you that much and you're completely right to demand it. Just, please understand if it takes a little bit longer.


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## EJ (Jul 29, 2012)

Hmm, I see.

I jumped to conclusions too fast. Sorry for your loss.


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## EJ (Jul 29, 2012)

Oh my god I feel like such an asshole



everything is just fucked up righ tnow even here


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## EJ (Jul 29, 2012)

I didn't want to hurt anyones feelings, in fact I'm so hurt that I will back down over everything I say

you guys really do put up with a lot.


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## Naruto (Jul 29, 2012)

It's fine, really. It's completely unrelated to this.


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## KAKASHI10 (Jul 30, 2012)

So is true that Yakushi Kabuto died  ,  O men she was so nice. She always responded my questions. 
She will surely be missed.  

Now I feel sad.


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## Mider T (Jul 30, 2012)

Yakushi Kabuto didn't die. Pay attention.


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## Aeiou (Jul 30, 2012)

I once PM'd a mod an appreciation letter showing my gratitude to their hard work and no one responded = never noticed it


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## Kaname Kuran (Aug 10, 2012)

I wish that moderators were less selective when it comes to what threads to completely trash due to potential flamebait or what not prime example is this thread that happened a while ago: 

This thread was basically pure flamebait and was obvious about it and what annoys me that even now it's still open even though it contained a lot of flame, but if you changed the thread saying something about the Uchiha, Itachi, or anything else it would have just been instantly trashed.​


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## Naruto (Aug 10, 2012)

^Would you prefer if we didn't trash those at all or that we trash all of them? This is a serious question.

Because to be completely honest with you, I don't see any flamebait in that one, and if we've been closing such threads so far then I'd like to start doing it less (or merge them as the case may be).

Anyway I'm going to make a new thread based on the responses you gave us up to this point. It's about time.


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## Kaname Kuran (Aug 10, 2012)

Naruto said:


> ^Would you prefer if we didn't trash those at all or that we trash all of them? This is a serious question.
> 
> Because to be completely honest with you, I don't see any flamebait in that one, and if we've been closing such threads so far then I'd like to start doing it less (or merge them as the case may be).
> 
> Anyway I'm going to make a new thread based on the responses you gave us up to this point. It's about time.



I had been following that thread since it was made in the Konoha Telegrams, and within the first 10 pages there's at least 60-70 posts deleted which were considered flaming/spam all due to the way the topic was created, the problem I have with this is that if it were to be created saying just about anything about Uchiha > or beating a certain character it would have been instantly trashed. (I would know I created a post that only hinted towards Uchiha being > and due to having Itachi mention in one point of my thread it was trashed in 15 minutes even though search turned up no result).

The staff are doing great with deleting the actual flame I just think that their taste in how severe of moderation is to biased and me personally would prefer that it be dealt with the way it was in that post just delete the flame as it appears and allow the discussion to continue (because that's what this section is for) but I would like that it be like that for all the threads no one retaining to a certain character or topic be treated more severely than another.​


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## EJ (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes, it is screwed up.


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## Xerces (Aug 10, 2012)

Naruto said:


> To be blunt, a friend of ours (and staff member) recently died. Don't let that discourage you from further discussing issues, submit suggestions or even ask us for a response. I promised you that much and you're completely right to demand it. Just, please understand if it takes a little bit longer.



Your friends death is irrelevant, and really has no place in being discussed here. Leave personal matters to personal sections of the forum. Everyone here has personal matters that they must deal with, but very few divulge them in a section like this, nor do they allow such matters to affect the quality and contributions they make to the forum. 

Furthermore, this situation speaks towards a larger problem that has seemingly arisen with the staff in the last few years: You seem to be placing your own agenda above the overall well-being of the members of this forum. As a volunteering staff member of this website, it is your duty to maintain a respectable upkeep of the sections of this forum, similar to how a janitor cleans a washroom. If you allow personal matters such as the one you eluded to, to compromise the efficiency of the job you willingly accepted, than you may want to reconsider your position as a moderator.  

Moreover, let us go back to my janitor analogy. As a janitor, it is your responsibility to make sure the washroom is clean and tidy. It is _not_ the janitors job to regulate the events that happen in the washroom, by telling others _how_ or when to excrete waste material. Ergo, the moderator should not _regulate_ sections, but rather, they should filter out the garbage, which would leave us with a more pleasurable participatory experience on the forum.  



> *What KL Moderators should NOT do: Regulation of the section.*
> 
> Telling members what types of threads they can or cannot create.
> Banning certain threads from being created
> ...





> *What KL Moderators SHOULD do: Light Maintenance  *
> 
> Delete spam or porn posts
> If deleting a post that is not spam or porn, give a thorough and valid reason for doing so. Not just "trashing"
> ...



*The answer is less regulation*, and more promotion of discussion and debate. A failure to do this until now has lead the staff to be overworked and frustrated. The members have also been frustrated by feeling suppressed by what feels like a totalitarian regime that is treating them like kindergarten kids. Less regulation of the section will incentivize members to create quality posts in order to be noticed (instead of relying on the staff members to close threads of opposing views). The overall quality of the forums will increase, it will become more fun, and both parties come out on top.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Aug 10, 2012)

... It's true some threads are unfairly trashed though.


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## Kaname Kuran (Aug 10, 2012)

Xerces said:


> Your friends death is irrelevant, and really has no place in being discussed here. Leave personal matters to personal sections of the forum. Everyone here has personal matters that they must deal with, but very few divulge them in a section like this, nor do they allow such matters to affect the quality and contributions they make to the forum.
> 
> Furthermore, this situation speaks towards a larger problem that has seemingly arisen with the staff in the last few years: You seem to be placing your own agenda above the overall well-being of the members of this forum. As a volunteering staff member of this website, it is your duty to maintain a respectable upkeep of the sections of this forum, similar to how a janitor cleans a washroom. If you allow personal matters such as the one you eluded to, to compromise the efficiency of the job you willingly accepted, than you may want to reconsider your position as a moderator.
> 
> ...



This x100... This would be an ideal situation to have the KL in.​


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## Naruto (Aug 10, 2012)

Xerces said:


> Your friends death is irrelevant, and really has no place in being discussed here.



I was explaining why there was no recent activity. If you have no sympathy, at least show common decency please.


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