# Emma Watson's U.N. speech on gender equality prompts debate over feminism, Beyonc?



## Savior (Sep 22, 2014)

> From Harry Potter's Hermione Granger to U.N. Women Goodwill Ambassador, British actress Emma Watson has made quite an impact in her 24 years of life to date ? but her fight to help end gender inequality around the world has only just begun.
> 
> During an appearance to promote the launch of a new U.N. Movement for Gender Equality campaign called HeForShe on Saturday, Watson delivered a rousing speech about equal rights, gender stereotypes, and the meaning of feminism.
> 
> ...






> And yet, despite all of the praise Watson's speech is earning, some are critical of the message its reception sends ? particularly when contrasted against Beyonc?'s recent push for more people to accept the word "feminist" in a positive light.
> 
> One Twitter user, Sirius Black, took to Tumblr to explain her points on the issue in more than 140 characters.
> 
> ...


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Good on Emma and please, spare me the bullshit on Beyonce.

She aligns herself with dipshit causes like #BanBossy, and from some accounts from even Mike Myers she's a complete bitch.  It's not because she's black.  It's because she's forceful and doesn't really contemplate what the hell she's doing with these half-assed feminist causes.


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## Jagger (Sep 22, 2014)

> "Beyonc? is a Black woman, married to a Black man with a Black child," she continued. "So although many women can identify with these aspects of her life, nobody wants to hear from her when it comes to feminism. Even though she is a powerful woman who has surpassed succeeding in a male-dominated industry, she can?t be a feminist because she owns her sexuality."



         .


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## Megaharrison (Sep 22, 2014)

Beyonce is such a feminist. That's why she gives "private performance's" to Momar Gaddaffi and the Emir of Qatar.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Sep 22, 2014)

I didn't understand ... Did a debate happen between Emma Hotson and Beyonc? ?


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## baconbits (Sep 22, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I didn't understand ... Did a debate happen between Emma Hotson and Beyonc? ?



In the media's imagination, yes.  I still don't get why dressing sexy is somehow a display of feminism but I hardly understand any of the left's causes.


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## Stunna (Sep 22, 2014)




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## Chelydra (Sep 22, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> Beyonce is such a feminist. That's why she gives "private performance's" to Momar Gaddaffi and the Emir of Qatar.



The burn is real.


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## Xiammes (Sep 22, 2014)

> I still don't get why dressing sexy is somehow a display of feminism but I hardly understand any of the left's causes



It has something to do with the fact women are openly displaying their sexuality or someshit.


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## Chelydra (Sep 22, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> It has something to do with the fact women are openly displaying their sexuality or someshit.



Yeah did a class on this shit and basically thats what that is protesting male control over female sexuality, quite nonsensical really and an insult to real feminists who had to fight for real issues.


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## Agmaster (Sep 22, 2014)

I really want to not hate Beyonce....but I never forgave her for fucking up Destiny's Child.  Especially because it was her daddy's plan


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Agmaster said:


> I really want to not hate Beyonce....but I never forgave her for fucking up Destiny's Child.  Especially because it was her daddy's plan



Kelly Rowland is prettier IMO...and 100 times less of a complete bitch.

Beyonce is adopting this feminist persona because either she or Jay-Z knows that idiots eat that shit up.


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## BashFace (Sep 22, 2014)

baconbits said:


> In the media's imagination, yes.  I still don't get why dressing sexy is somehow a display of feminism but I hardly understand any of the left's causes.



It displays and explains feminism the same as a guy jacking off on stage promoting/embracing masculinity.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2014)

baconbits said:


> In the media's imagination, yes.  I still don't get why dressing sexy is somehow a display of feminism but I hardly understand any of the left's causes.



I...find myself in that position more and more...


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

baconbits said:


> In the media's imagination, yes.  I still don't get why dressing sexy is somehow a display of feminism but I hardly understand any of the left's causes.



Then dare not probe wtf the left has been doing with video gaming.


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## Xiammes (Sep 22, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> Yeah did a class on this shit and basically thats what that is protesting male control over female sexuality, quite nonsensical really and an insult to real feminists who had to fight for real issues.



I can see where they are coming from, but its really a non issue, not like anyone is really complaining, except in front of their wives.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I can see where they are coming from, but its really a non issue, not like anyone is really complain, except in front of their wives.



Yeah, I've found personally that the biggest and harshest judges of women tend to be other women.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Yeah, I've found personally that the biggest and harshest judges of women tend to be other women.



Brainwashed by "teh patriarceh" of course. 

I mean, educated women like Katherine K. Young and Christina Hoff Sommers?  MANDEMONS IN WOMYN FORM!


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## kingcools (Sep 22, 2014)

what exactly can emma watson add to gender equality discussions? i figure her living and experiencing a very different life than that of most other people. (note: im presuming, i do not know her of course, maybe i am wrong)


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)

Stunna said:


>



People be hating.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

kingcools said:


> what exactly can emma watson add to gender equality discussions? i figure her living and experiencing a very different life than that of most other people. (note: im presuming, i do not know her of course, maybe i am wrong)



She can't but at least she's a voice of moderation amidst the rising tide of internet inanity via Sarkeesian or young girls influenced by fucking Dworkin of all women.

I do wonder though how these women will address Islamic nations.  Granted, I've gotten the distinct impression that many Muslim women feel more like this:


Don't address the hijab or niqab or shit like that.  What'd be better would be addressing the arranged marriages or ACTUAL RAPE CULTURE.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Sep 22, 2014)

kingcools said:


> what exactly can emma watson add to gender equality discussions? i figure her living and experiencing a very different life than that of most other people. (note: im presuming, i do not know her of course, maybe i am wrong)



She's a successful woman, perhaps?


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## Savior (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> Don't address the hijab or niqab or shit like that.  What'd be better would be addressing the arranged marriages or ACTUAL RAPE CULTURE.



Link to this Rape culture you speak about?

Arranged marriages are a problem in many lesser developed countries. It has nothing to do with religion but more to do with economic status and a lack of education.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Savior said:


> Link to this Rape culture you speak about?
> 
> Arranged marriages are a problem in many lesser developed countries. It has nothing to do with religion but more to do with economic status and a lack of education.



You're kidding, right?

You mean the culture where if a woman is raped, she's found guilty and stoned?



> While a sunnah suggests that a woman should not be punished for having been coerced into having sex,[107] it is the burden of the victim to establish coercion with eyewitnesses. If a man does confess to zina, eyewitnesses are not required.[108] Such a confession may, however, be withdrawn and the need for four male Muslim eyewitnesses reinstated. Failure to provide evidence is treated as a crime of false accusation, punishable with flogging.[109] Currently, it is common for a Muslim woman who makes a claim of rape not only to be denied justice but to be charged with fornication or adultery.[110][111][112][113]




http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/04/france.jonhenley1



Men accused of rape don't need eyewitnesses.  Women are pretty much charged on the spot.

Are you purposely being an obtuse shit right now?


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## Savior (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> Men accused of rape don't need eyewitnesses.  Women are pretty much charged on the spot.
> 
> Are you purposely being an obtuse shit right now?



Mostly a problem in Pakistan based on your links. More to do with the country than anything else.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Savior said:


> Mostly a problem in Pakistan based on your links. More to do with the country than anything else.





Wow you are slow.

Okay, let's include Morocco and Afghanistan:




There's also the UAE:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/04/france.jonhenley1

North Africa as a whole:


So shut the fuck up.  You want a rape culture?  Look no further.


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## Savior (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> Wow you are slow.
> 
> Okay, let's include Morocco and Afghanistan:
> 
> ...



One case of the UAE ? How does that equate to culture exactly? Cmon son.

If you look at comparable countries in economic status and education levels, you will find very similar issues to those in the links you posted.

Not saying it's not an issue just that you're overstating it. It's definitely messed up the way women are treated in many of these cases.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Savior said:


> One case of the UAE ? How does that equate to culture exactly? Cmon son.
> 
> If you look at comparable countries in economic status and education levels, you will find very similar issues to those in the links you posted.



It's within their laws!  Nice whitewashing of Afghanistan, North Africa, and Pakistan too.  Why the hell are you in North America again?

Their own authorities look the other way and there is no educational measures to address the topic.

You either have to be naively stupid or trolling.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> It's within their laws!  Nice whitewashing of Afghanistan, North Africa, and Pakistan too.  Why the hell are you in North America again?
> 
> Their own authorities look the other way and there is no educational measures to address the topic.
> 
> You either have to be naively stupid or trolling.



Or an apologist for the goings-on in that part of the world. Which he tends to be, I thought you already knew that.


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## Savior (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> It's within their laws!  Nice whitewashing of Afghanistan, North Africa, and Pakistan too.  Why the hell are you in North America again?
> 
> Their own authorities look the other way and there is no educational measures to address the topic.
> 
> You either have to be naively stupid or trolling.



I didn't say it's not an issue. It's one of the issues in these countries but at the end of the day is a government going to focus on this or are they going to focus on providing clean water, fighting malaria, battling poverty, combating militants etc? To those governments, those are the major issues.
Pakistan is barely holding it together and can't even provide electricity for its people yet you expect them to have top notch laws with regard to women. That's naive.


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## ch1p (Sep 22, 2014)

No comment on either one, tbh.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Or an apologist for the goings-on in that part of the world. Which he tends to be, I thought you already knew that.



Sometimes I gotta probe.



Savior said:


> I didn't say it's not an issue. It's one of the issues in these countries but at the end of the day is a government going to focus on this or are they going to focus on providing clean water, fighting malaria, battling poverty, combating militants etc? To those governments, those are the major issues.
> Pakistan is barely holding it together and can't even provide electricity for its people yet you expect them to have top notch laws with regard to women. That's naive.



Nice job whitewashing.

Also, battling poverty?  Who's the naive one here?



ch1p said:


> No comment on either one, tbh.



Then why post?


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)




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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2014)

Because one of the biggest message boards on the web is a monolithic entity.


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## ch1p (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> Then why post?



I like making my point clear.


I feel sorry for her regarding this, she'll never live it down.


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)

Well the internet has sick ass individuals, and it has people that defend them and their actions all the time so


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## Gunners (Sep 22, 2014)

Talia said:


> Well the internet has sick ass individuals, and it has people that defend them and their actions all the time so



A bit like real life...  If some geezer at a pub made a crass remark, would you take that as licence to paint everyone else in the pub with the same brush? 

People act as though all people are in agreement, or as though the possibility doesn't exist for people to make such posts with the purpose of depicting a group in a negative light. The responses are seldom mentioned, which is arguably deceitful as it sidesteps the views of a community at large.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Sep 22, 2014)

She has the body of a pubescent little boy. I can't figure out why in the hell anyone would want to see revealing pictures of her.


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)

@Gunners, I don't know where you're getting with that post but if it's in direct response to me like.. Ok dude.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2014)

Talia said:


> @Gunners, I don't know where you're getting with that post but if it's in direct response to me like.. Ok dude.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

ch1p said:


> I like making my point clear.



But you had no point to begin with us you're making it pointless.



> I feel sorry for her regarding this, she'll never live it down.



She'll be fine.


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)

@SK,

We can continue this here,

Here, suit up


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2014)

Talia said:


> @SK,
> 
> We can continue this here,
> 
> Here, suit up



Normally, I'd be amazed that someone would be too slow to grasp the simple point Gunners laid out. However, you've shown an incredible inability to grasp some pretty basic concepts. Of course, lacking the wit to be original too it seems.


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)

Seto Kaiba, I ask myself constantly why modern day feminism intimidates you and Mael so much. It's like you both have a huge stash of rape pornography somewhere along with a closet of skeletons and feel like "if this wave of feminism succeeds, our secret will get out!"

Chill the hell out, Haha.

All this tension.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Because like you Flow modern feminism makes mountains out of molehills, defying logic and instead embracing bizarre obsession.


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## Gunners (Sep 22, 2014)

Talia said:


> Seto Kaiba, I ask myself constantly why modern day feminism intimidates you and Mael so much. It's like you both have a huge stash of rape pornography somewhere along with a closet of skeletons and feel like "if this wave of feminism succeeds, our secret will get out!"
> 
> Chill the hell out, Haha.
> 
> All this tension.



It's funny because I wonder why you *always* accuse someone of being a contemptible person when they challenge your point. It's like you're too thick to understand what they're saying and feel as though attempting to degrade their character will cover up your own inadequacies.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2014)

Talia said:


> Seto Kaiba, I ask myself constantly why modern day feminism intimidates you and Mael so much. It's like you both have a huge stash of rape pornography somewhere along with a closet of skeletons and feel like "if this wave of feminism succeeds, our secret will get out!"
> 
> Chill the hell out, Haha.
> 
> All this tension.



As Gunners stated, such accusations only highlight your incompetence.


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> Because like you Flow modern feminism makes mountains out of molehills, defying logic and instead embracing bizarre obsession.



I didn't know the thirsty user that harasses other women online and openly admits to using them as a means of his own self gratification was in a position to speak ill of me or feminism. It's like...man glass house, whatever. 



Gunners said:


> It's funny because I wonder why you *always* accuse someone of being a contemptible person when they challenge your point. It's like you're too thick to understand what they're saying and feel as though attempting to degrade their character will cover up your own inadequacies.



Says the most judgmental person on this section, that perrots other people and hops into debates without actually giving his own merit as to how he feels. This post is in direct relation to you, and you don't even realize it. Just repeats the same "smart" insults he ate up towards people he doesn't like. 



Seto Kaiba said:


> As Gunners stated, such accusations only highlight your incompetence.



Ok.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

It's parrots*.

Learn2spell brah.

And honestly?  Yeah I goofed bad but that doesn't refute the point that you seriously have issues in regards to contentious viewpoints where you don't even make sense.  It takes afgpride, perhaps one of the most logical people here, to point it out and still you protest.


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> It's parrots*.
> 
> Learn2spell brah.
> 
> And honestly?  Yeah I goofed bad



Yes, and it's funny watching the guy that just blatantly admitted towards having sexual frustration problems with women and using them for his own self gratification give his "two cents about feminism"

It's like a racist giving "his two cents about black struggle". 


You're not fooling me, but you sure have your friend Seto Kaiba fooled into thinking you don't hold a vendetta against feminism because of your actual deprived nature. 

I can take criticism from Seto Kaiba, he's really easy to argue with. I can definitely hold my own against Gunners. But please, save your "correctional speeches" towards yourself.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2014)

Whatever you say dude.  I made my peace.


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## EJ (Sep 22, 2014)

You made your "peace" but hate it when people discuss your actions as to what I'm talking about and "prefer it doesn't get out there". Nah, I'd say it's something that haunts you. That's not making a peace, that's compensating and living a lie. It's shown with your vendetta against feminism and how the main thing you argue against "not being as much of an issue" is the main thing you are. 

I'm not fooled, but I'm glad I know how much of straight up hypocrite you are.


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## Nordstrom (Sep 22, 2014)

Mael said:


> Brainwashed by "teh patriarceh" of course.
> 
> I mean, educated women like Katherine K. Young and Christina Hoff Sommers?  MANDEMONS IN WOMYN FORM!



I can't help but laugh whenever they go full retard when someone praises either of them.

If you don't read the SCUM Manifesto, you're apparently unworthy of being a feminist 



Seto Kaiba said:


> Because one of the biggest message boards on the web is a monolithic entity.



It is... Sorta...

You might even label them, OJSC Anonymous OBK.



Talia said:


> I didn't know the thirsty user that harasses other women online and openly admits to using them as a means of his own self gratification was in a position to speak ill of me or feminism. It's like...man glass house, whatever.
> 
> Says the most judgmental person on this section, that perrots other people and hops into debates without actually giving his own merit as to how he feels. This post is in direct relation to you, and you don't even realize it. Just repeats the same "smart" insults he ate up towards people he doesn't like.
> 
> Ok.



Well, I'll tell you something... I care not if women's rights do not curtail my freedom as a man, reinforce stereotypes about men and muck my work because of a victory. However, when I can't fight back against a female who's attacking me because culture says it's wrong, or national legislations says women can't be charged of female on male rape, domestic abuse or just plain physical aggression against men, you know that's bullshit.

Thank goodness we'll be seceding soon. Rajoy's government couldn't care less about those issues. Good to know I won't have to deal with them again.

tl;dr

Modern feminism is man hating in all but name. That's why we hate it. It went from "fight for freedom" to "curtail men's freedom".

Yeah, that's not how equality works.


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## Savior (Sep 22, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> Thank goodness we'll be seceding soon. Rajoy's government couldn't care less about those issues. Good to know I won't have to deal with them again.



You are ?


.


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## Nordstrom (Sep 22, 2014)

Savior said:


> You are ?
> 
> 
> .


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## Deleted member 23 (Sep 22, 2014)

The only reaction to Talia's foolishness


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## Kafuka de Vil (Sep 22, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> tl;dr
> 
> Modern feminism is man hating in all but name. That's why we hate it. It went from "fight for freedom" to "curtail men's freedom".
> 
> Yeah, that's not how equality works.



Sleip, hon, you're well meaning, but not terribly bright.

Feminism was never solely just some 'fight for freedom', but also the fight for equality and the means to attain it. Feminism has now become so fractured you can apply any connotation you want of it  that goes beyond the written definition and it's twisted the very meaning.


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## Savior (Sep 22, 2014)

When is the vote?


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## Sarry (Sep 22, 2014)

It was a good speech by Emma. She brought up some valid points and did well to point out the fallacy/problem with any man hating aspect that some feminists have.

I was kinda surprised to see that there was a bit of debate on it, but to be fair I don't know if that 'debate' was dramatized by media or actually legit.


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## baconbits (Sep 22, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> It has something to do with the fact women are openly displaying their sexuality or someshit.





Chelydra said:


> Yeah did a class on this shit and basically thats what that is protesting male control over female sexuality, quite nonsensical really and an insult to real feminists who had to fight for real issues.



Yeah, I heard that, too but I'd like to see feminists debate each other because on one hand you have some saying cheerleaders and strippers are sexist because it encourages the objectification of the female body and on the other hand you have someone saying Beyonce is a feminist because... she encourages the objectification of the female body.



Seto Kaiba said:


> I...find myself in that position more and more...



You're being pulled to the dark side, bro.

@Flow

Please stop, bro.  At some point you have to deal with the actual arguments being made even if you think they're ridiculous.  That's the whole point of this section.


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## Juda (Sep 22, 2014)

Just because shes a actress or singer doesnt mean she shouldnt address these issues. Emma is a women and addressing the issue, because as a women she has the right to speak about them. Her career and status is irrelevant . 

Side Note: Its pretty pathetic what 4chan is doing .


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## Nordstrom (Sep 22, 2014)

MbS said:


> Sleip, hon, you're well meaning, but not terribly bright.
> 
> Feminism was never solely just some 'fight for freedom', but also the fight for equality and the means to attain it. Feminism has now become so fractured you can apply any connotation you want of it  that goes beyond the written definition and it's twisted the very meaning.



No, I understand that. The problem is that as they fought for their rights, they slowly became more and more demanding and they started fighting for stuff that would benefit them at OUR expense.

You said it, not me. Feminism has been twisted beyond belief.



Savior said:


> When is the vote?


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## Oceania (Sep 22, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> No, I understand that. The problem is that as they fought for their rights, they slowly became more and more demanding and they started fighting for stuff that would benefit them at OUR expense.
> 
> You said it, not me. Feminism has been twisted beyond belief.



I agree with Sleipnyr I think the meaning for is become twisted.


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## B Rabbit (Sep 22, 2014)

Yay for Emma!!!!


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## Punk Zebra (Sep 22, 2014)

Shut up Harmione Granger! Stick to the films.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2014)

It's like you didn't even read her speech or something.


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 22, 2014)

She is right that feminism is twisted to take advantage of the system like a mother having more priority than a father in separation unless someone proves otherwise in court in case of disagreement or how some feminists are misandrict or mistake equal rights for special rights.

Her being an actress won't make the speech any less true on the fact that women's rights is important(the bad ones should'nt ruin the good ones or detract from a problem) but there is a double standard involved both for and against each gender. 



> Yeah, I heard that, too but I'd like to see feminists debate each other because on one hand you have some saying cheerleaders and strippers are sexist because it encourages the objectification of the female body and on the other hand you have someone saying Beyonce is a feminist because... she encourages the objectification of the female body.



Yeah this type of thing exists. People under the same group/philosophy need not interpret something the same, for better or for worse which means almost anyone can offended for almost anything. Some women believe in dressing modestly and some don't so this type of difference will happen.


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## Jagger (Sep 22, 2014)

I don't see why her opinion about the subject shouldn't be considered as equally important as any other person's opinion.


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## J★J♥ (Sep 23, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's like you didn't even read her speech or something.



Its like you are not getting my point. I don't like the fact that only reason this gets so much attention is that she said it.

anyway i don't really care about her or her subject and i'm starting to speaking out of my ass so it will probably be better if i delete my posts and get  out of here


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## Psycho (Sep 23, 2014)

Jagger said:


> I don't see why her opinion about the subject shouldn't be considered as equally important as any other person's opinion.



it's not, it just has more reach


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## Pilaf (Sep 23, 2014)

Let's have a thread about Emma Watson but not talk about her or her points any at all, because apparently Beyonce is the best feminist of all time. All time.


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## Aeternus (Sep 23, 2014)

It was an nice speech. I liked how she mentioned men in it and how feminism shouldn't be mean hating men.


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## stream (Sep 23, 2014)

Dark Matter said:


> It was an nice speech. I liked how she mentioned men in it and how feminism shouldn't be mean hating men.


The subtle thing is that it's also possible to interpret it in the way that feminists should not automatically be called man-haters. Both are good messages?


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## Psycho (Sep 23, 2014)

Pilaf said:


> Let's have a thread about Emma Watson but not talk about her or her points any at all, because apparently Beyonce is the best feminist of all time. All time.



ITT: 



yo, watson, i'm really happy for you, imma let you finish but beyonce had one of the best feminist affirmations of all time... one of the best feminist affirmations OF ALL TIME!"


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## Roman (Sep 23, 2014)

Am I wrong to find it contradictory, if not outright hypocritical, that Beyonc? calls herself a feminist when her song lyrics would make both extremist and moderate feminists cringe? Because that's probably why people don't take her feminist speeches seriously, unlike Emma.


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## Psycho (Sep 23, 2014)

Freedan said:


> Am I wrong to find it contradictory, if not outright hypocritical, that Beyonc? calls herself a feminist when her song lyrics would make both extremist and moderate feminists cringe? Because that's probably why people don't take her feminist speeches seriously, unlike Emma.



beyonc?'s feminism is what we call sex-positive feminism, she reinforces her right to her own body through exalted sexuality and such, these feminist consider sex, pornography and even prostituion empowering to women if done by choice and if the women are allowed full control over their actions (which is not the case in, say, a prostitute with a pimp who may not choose her clients, or a pornographic actress that does scenes she does not enjoy or feel comfortable with)


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## Roman (Sep 23, 2014)

Psycho said:


> beyonc?'s feminism is what we call sex-positive feminism, she reinforces her right to her own body through exalted sexuality and such, these feminist consider sex, pornography and even prostituion empowering to women if done by choice and if the women are allowed full control over their actions (which is not the case in, say, a prostitute with a pimp who may not choose her clients, or a pornographic actress that does scenes she does not enjoy or feel comfortable with)


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## Gunners (Sep 23, 2014)

On the topic of Beyonce...


*Spoiler*: __ 



You's a nasty (nasty) Trashy (nasty)
Sleazy (nasty) Classless (nasty)

Nasty put some clothes on, I told ya
Don't walk out your house without no clothes on, I told ya
Girl what ya thinkin' bout lookin' that to' down, I told ya
These men don't want no hot female that's been around the block female, you nasty girl




I remember the 90s-early 00s. 

I think what annoys me with her is that she doesn't believe in her own words. She's a chameleon who will go whichever way the wind is blowing.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Sep 23, 2014)

I call bullshit, but I'm sure feminists, and Harry Potter fans are gonna eat shit shit up. Look at this part of her speech:

"_If men don't have to be aggressive in order to be accepted, women won't feel compelled to be submissive. If men don't have to control, women won't have to be controlled. Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong. It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum, instead of two sets of opposing ideals._" - Emma Watson

So, Watson is making a call for men to be less aggressive, less dominant, less strong and more sensitive. Basically, don't be masculine. Of course, in real life Watson is dating a masculine, aggressive, dominant rugby player. *Watch what she does, don't listen to what she says.* When Watson actually encounters this guy who she's told other men to become, she would be repulsed by him.



Freedan said:


> Am I wrong to find it contradictory, if not outright hypocritical, that Beyonc? calls herself a feminist when her song lyrics would make both extremist and moderate feminists cringe? Because that's probably why people don't take her feminist speeches seriously, unlike Emma.



I can meet a woman and almost instantly tell whether or not she listens to too much Beyonce. However, I actually like Beyonce. I've always gotten a vibe from her that she's sweet and vulnerable in real life and I suspect the dynamic of her and Jay-Z's relationship is much different than her feminists rantings would reveal.


----------



## Roman (Sep 23, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> So, Watson is making a call for men to be less aggressive, less dominant, less strong and more sensitive. Basically, don't be masculine. Of course, in real life Watson is dating a masculine, aggressive, dominant rugby player. *Watch what she does, don't listen to what she says.* When Watson actually encounters this guy who she's told other men to become, she would be repulsed by him.



Amazing reading comprehension as always. What she's really addressing is society at large, wherein men have grown up learning that they have to be in control, cold and calculating, be hard and dominant. Our history also does a good job of teaching that. She's saying that this is the gender role given to men in society at large, not at all that these are natural male traits. Similarly with women who are taught that their gender role is to take the submissive, dominated part. She's addressing society's expectations of men and women alike.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Sep 23, 2014)

Freedan said:


> Amazing reading comprehension as always. What she's really addressing is society at large, wherein men have grown up learning that they have to be in control, cold and calculating, be hard and dominant. Our history also does a good job of teaching that. She's saying that this is the gender role given to men in society at large, not at all that these are natural male traits. Similarly with women who are taught that their gender role is to take the submissive, dominated part. She's addressing society's expectations of men and women alike.



Yes or No, do you believe that we can change "societies" expectations of men by teaching the younger generation of men to embrace their sensitivity, submissiveness, weakness, and softness?


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (Sep 23, 2014)

One problem about the "feminists these days" thing going around now is that it implies that feminist movements didn't have (a minority of) man-hating nutjobs in the past. They did have them, and a few groups of feminists used terrorist techniques too. However, they got the job done regardless; and the majority were people legitimately looking for equality in a peaceful manner, just like today.


----------



## blueblip (Sep 23, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Yes or No, do you believe that we can change "societies" expectations of men by teaching the younger generation of men to embrace their sensitivity, submissiveness, weakness, and softness?


You're missing the entire point by a wide mile. She's not saying "ALL MEN MUST BE MADE SUBMISSIVE OR DIE!!!"

She's saying that man (or woman) need to confine themselves to prescribed gender roles.

Put it this way: Emma is saying that if a man wants to be masculine and all that it entails, good for him. If a man wants to be less masculine and all that entails, well, good for him too.

Ditto for women.

I don't see how you got around to such an obtuse point that she's advocating for emasculating men completely. I mean, she said what she said very clearly.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Sep 23, 2014)

blueblip said:


> You're missing the entire point by a wide mile. She's not saying "ALL MEN MUST BE MADE SUBMISSIVE OR DIE!!!"


Talk about hyperbole. That isn't what I was implying at all.



blueblip said:


> You're missing the entire point by a wide mile. She's not saying "ALL MEN MUST BE MADE SUBMISSIVE OR DIE!!!"
> 
> She's saying that man (or woman) need to confine themselves to prescribed gender roles.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying that she's trying to emasculate men completely, but she's implying that an emasculated man, divorced from traditionally male qualities is a desirable outcome to work towards, while she herself is repulsed by such guys. 

I find this rhetoric to be too common and I find it bad for the average guy to read too much into. I even believe it to be a cause of a lot of misogyny.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Sep 23, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> No, I understand that. The problem is that as they fought for their rights, they slowly became more and more demanding and they started fighting for stuff that would benefit them at OUR expense.
> 
> You said it, not me. Feminism has been twisted beyond belief.



The thing here is when people speak out against Feminism they're actually talking about their own assumptions - such as you. This twists the original meaning from its written definition. Any self-proclaimed feminist who want to 'curtail men's freedom' are not really feminists at all and are not taken serious by a good chunk of Feminists and what these 'man-haters' advocate will never see the light of day. You act like Feminism is monolithic when as I've explained, it now has so many branches you can find any definition you want to fit it.



Tranquil Fury said:


> She is right that feminism is twisted to take advantage of the system like a mother having more priority than a father in separation unless someone proves otherwise



This can be a legitimate grievance of fathers and males in general, where society really does favour the female over the male. I guess it can be down to the perception women are more devoted, caring and patient to child rearing - but its not without justification. Mothers do make the more reliable  parent.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Freedan said:


> Am I wrong to find it contradictory, if not outright hypocritical, that Beyonc? calls herself a feminist when her song lyrics would make both extremist and moderate feminists cringe? Because that's probably why people don't take her feminist speeches seriously, unlike Emma.



It's because Beyonce takes a philosophical or societal concept and dumbs it down.  It's like how Madonna takes liberalism and turns it into utter shite.



> beyonc?'s feminism is what we call sex-positive feminism, she reinforces her right to her own body through exalted sexuality and such, these feminist consider sex, pornography and even prostituion empowering to women if done by choice and if the women are allowed full control over their actions (which is not the case in, say, a prostitute with a pimp who may not choose her clients, or a pornographic actress that does scenes she does not enjoy or feel comfortable with)



I get what you're saying, but it's some backwards shit she's preaching along with her endorsement of #BanBossy and whatever other lightly topical cause the internets is spreading.

Beyonce is not a good role model for feminism period end.  I mean, she's married to Jay-Z, J-HOVA is already dishing on the side and only fools wouldn't believe that, they're still together on tour, her pregnancy had questions abound, and pretty much pushed around Destiny's Child.

Speaking of DC, I didn't get their theme.  I remember TRL playing Bills, Bills, Bills like they're expecting a man to be wealthy and provide for them and then singing that God-awful Charlie's Angels All the Women Independent.


----------



## blueblip (Sep 23, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Talk about hyperbole. That isn't what I was implying at all.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that she's trying to emasculate men completely, but she's implying that an emasculated man, divorced from traditionally male qualities is a desirable outcome to work towards, while she herself is repulsed by such guys.
> ...


And that's what I mean when I say you're missing the point. And no, that's not what she's saying at all. 

Emma Watson says: People should just be whatever the fuck they want to be, and toss gender ascribed societal roles and behaviours in the bin.

MartyMcFly says: It's not okay for people to deviate from gender defined societal roles and behaviours (or at least, the majority of people should not do so).

Watson did not ever endorse or decry societal prescribed roles and behaviours for genders, nor did she ever say that:





			
				MartyMcFly said:
			
		

> that an emasculated man, divorced from traditionally male qualities is a desirable outcome to work towards, while she herself is repulsed by such guys.


You're putting words in her mouth to try and trying to create a contradiction in her statements to discredit her, which you ought to not be doing.

What she DID say, though, is that a person - male or female - should just be what they want so long as they don't break any laws or harm people. And personally, I subscribe to that view because it just makes a lot more sense than telling a man who's meek by nature to be a lion or telling a woman who is energetic by nature to be submissive simply because "that's how it's always been". Both of the above would have a better chance of succeeding if they didn't waste a considerable amount of their time trying to conform to society's expectations and thereby free up time for their minds to focus on their work instead.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Sep 23, 2014)

Ahh... This is all a smokescreen. 
A roundabout way of leading more men into emasculation.
This emasculation will attempt to become the norm for all men that's apart 
of the westernized culture.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Punished Pathos said:


> Ahh... This is all a smokescreen.
> A roundabout way of leading more men into emasculation.
> This emasculation will attempt to become the norm for all men that's apart
> of the westernized culture.



Which reminds me (and this is a woman saying this):


Equity feminism wouldn't be preaching this, but lo that's ignored and hissed at.


----------



## scerpers (Sep 23, 2014)

never heard of either of them


----------



## HolyHands (Sep 23, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Talk about hyperbole. That isn't what I was implying at all.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that she's trying to emasculate men completely, but she's implying that an emasculated man, divorced from traditionally male qualities is a desirable outcome to work towards, while she herself is repulsed by such guys.
> ...



It probably causes misogyny because of the ridiculous conclusions you're making based off no evidence whatsoever.

Emma is dating a sports player, so somehow in your mind, that means she must hate and "is repulsed by" anybody who isn't. Do you even know what her boyfriend is like? For all we know, he could be a great guy who is sensitive to women's issues, great with kids, or has a few feminine hobbies on the side. And better yet, how do you know Emma is "repulsed" by sensitive, more submissive men? If such men aren't her preference, that's fine, but you insist that she is literally disgusted by them. Where's the proof?


----------



## Fujita (Sep 23, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Of course, in real life Watson is dating a masculine, aggressive, dominant rugby player. *Watch what she does, don't listen to what she says.* When Watson actually encounters this guy who she's told other men to become, she would be repulsed by him.





MartyMcFly1 said:


> I'm not saying that she's trying to emasculate men completely, but she's implying that an emasculated man, divorced from traditionally male qualities is a desirable outcome to work towards, while she herself is repulsed by such guys



"Based on the very complete and nuanced picture of her psyche I get by looking at who she's dating, I conclude that she doesn't actually believe what she says"


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Scerpers said:


> never heard of either of them



Of Beyonce or Emma Watson?

Yeah I'm gonna call bullshit.


----------



## scerpers (Sep 23, 2014)

isn't emma watson that girl who gets raped in game of thrones or something


----------



## dynasaur (Sep 23, 2014)

She played Hermione in the Harry Potter movies. Lol


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 23, 2014)

reminder that martymcfly1 should be on your super uguunore list because he is a pickup artist manchild and everything he says is worthless


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## Roman (Sep 23, 2014)

Scerpers said:


> isn't emma watson that girl who gets raped in game of thrones or something



HahahaahhahahahahahhHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Well, you're not really missing much on not knowing who Beyonce is, but Emma Watson is identified as Hermione from Harry Potter literally in the first line of the OP


----------



## sadated_peon (Sep 23, 2014)

So I guess my problem is this. 


> Gender equality is your issue too. Because to date, I’ve seen my father’s role as a parent being valued less by society despite my needing his presence, as a child, as much as my mother’s. I’ve seen young men suffering from mental illness, unable to ask for help, for fear it would make them less of a man. In fact, in the U.K., suicide is the biggest killer of men, between 20 to 49, eclipsing road accidents, cancer and coronary heart disease.



Yea, and I would blame feminism for making this worse. 

When feminism dictates that men are not disenfranchised in our society, and that women have no privileges in society then you contributes to the problems described. 

It's women groups who fight to stop giving equal custody to men. It women's groups that fight to keep men out of shelters and attack funding for men support organizations.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

I've also noticed a disturbing rise in mental issues among boys as compared to girls.  While girls are still subject to higher rates of eating disorders and possibly depression, boys are climbing quickly in the depression scale and are higher up on the autism scale.  

I seriously think that while autism is definitely nature and not nurture, the way they're being brought up today to have to question their very boyhood is not the way to make it right.  And honestly?  The impression of men not being just as good custodians hails from the notion that the men are the workhorses and drive themselves to an early grave because they have to work so God damn much to provide.  Now tell me that's oppressive.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Sep 23, 2014)

Lets allow Male emasculation in western society. (sarcasm)
We have already Rappers wearing Skirts. 
Wake up!
This is all an agenda


----------



## reiatsuflow (Sep 23, 2014)

There's no bottom line here, but the natural dynamics of dominance and hierarchy tend to rear their ugly heads no matter how people rephrase their principles. There tends to be a dominant person in a relationship or group. There tends to be a submissive person. Sometimes the dominance is physical or personality based. Sometimes it's intelligence. You're never really going to get around that, and even though that's not really the matter here, that's what people talk about because it's endlessly tangling itself up in these cultural discussions.

These kinds of debates should always be reigned back in to the practical inequalities people are trying to solve - women being paid less, not being able to drive or vote, not being able to get a divorce, not being able to fight for their safety and personal dominion over their bodies. Like the speech references. The same follows with men, because the US still has some rough inequalities as far as marriage/child care/financial obligations are concerned (I'm still reeling from learning that prenuptial agreements are about as legally binding as a post-it note).


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

reiatsuflow said:


> There's no bottom line here, but the natural dynamics of dominance and hierarchy tend to rear their ugly heads no matter how people rephrase their principles. There tends to be a dominant person in a relationship or group. There tends to be a submissive person. Sometimes the dominance is physical or personality based. Sometimes it's intelligence. You're never really going to get around that, and even though that's not really the matter here, that's what people talk about because it's endlessly tangling itself up in these cultural discussions.
> 
> These kinds of debates should always be reigned back in to the practical inequalities people are trying to solve - women being paid less, not being able to drive or vote, not being able to get a divorce, not being able to fight for their safety and personal dominion over their bodies. Like the speech references. The same follows with men, because the US still has some rough inequalities as far as marriage/child care/financial obligations are concerned (I'm still reeling from learning that prenuptial agreements are about as legally binding as a post-it note).



I can agree to this.  There are plenty of dominant women and submissive men and vice versa.  A lot of it is based on culture, upbringing, psychology, physiology, etc.

Interesting that you say unable to get a divorce, as the classic example I'm reminded of is the Jewish get.  A civil divorce just isn't enough for some Jews.  Only a get, approved by a rabbi, can allow a woman to remarry and not be shunned by the commJewnity.  Unfortunately law itself cannot walk all over this because then you'd have the First Amendment to tangle with.  Talk about inconvenient, eh?


----------



## Easley (Sep 23, 2014)

Emma made a good attempt at bridging the divide here. She deserves credit, but 'feminism' as a brand is irrevocably damaged at this point. Get rid of this label and things will improve. It's not her fault that the name itself is toxic to men and an increasing number of women. Feminism and gender equality are too closely linked to avoid mentioning it entirely. I hope her words don't fall on deaf ears because of that. Also, I don't think her "permission to be vulnerable" line will be unpopular with men unless its viewed as a threat to their masculinity... showing your tender side and stuff... hmm, I can't answer that. All in all, nicely done Emma. 

I'm not a fan of Beyonce and her attention seeking ways. Feminism is just very convenient for her, I doubt she even cares. A terrible role model for girls.


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

If you don't like "feminism" how about the term "gender equality"?  Better?  Less... feminine? 

Also, did we mention the 4chan threats against her?  and pretty much every other woman in the world


----------



## OodboO (Sep 23, 2014)

I don't understand what the problem is with Beyonce's feminism. Isn't feminism about liberating women to be free to do whatever the eff they want!?
Which includes dressing and acting like a slut?

How is Emma more of a feminist than Beyonce?


----------



## aiyanah (Sep 23, 2014)

how the fuck did emma watson become relevant enough to give a speech at the un?


----------



## OodboO (Sep 23, 2014)

aiyanah said:


> how the fuck did emma watson become relevant enough to give a speech at the un?



Everyone wants to fuck her. 


Oh the irony.


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

OodboO said:


> I don't understand what the problem is with Beyonce's feminism. Isn't feminism about liberating women to be free to do whatever the eff they want!?
> Which includes dressing and acting like a slut?
> 
> How is Emma more of a feminist than Beyonce?



It's about that but also equal treatment for BOTH sexes, men and women.

But yes, being able to be free and slutty


----------



## Easley (Sep 23, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> If you don't like "feminism" how about the term "gender equality"?  Better?  Less... feminine?


It's a start. Just talk about equality without assigning labels or belonging to a group. Wishful thinking.... birds of a feather flock together.



> Also, did we mention the 4chan threats against her?  and pretty much every other woman in the world


No need to mention it. 4chan does that all the time! lol


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

OodboO said:


> I don't understand what the problem is with Beyonce's feminism. *Isn't feminism about liberating women to be free to do whatever the eff they want!?
> Which includes dressing and acting like a slut?*
> 
> How is Emma more of a feminist than Beyonce?



So, they're free to dress and act like a slut but God forbid a man (or even a woman) look or make commentary about it?

See, that's what many of the wilder feminist activists are preaching.  It makes zero sense.


----------



## Juda (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> So, they're free to dress and act like a slut but God forbid a man (or even a woman) look or make commentary about it?
> 
> See, that's what many of the wilder feminist activists are preaching.  It makes zero sense.



Yea lol, I dont get it either .


----------



## OodboO (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> So, they're free to dress and act like a slut but God forbid a man (or even a woman) look or make commentary about it?



Make commentary. 
What is wrong with calling sluts, sluts?
Sluts are good people. They spread love, not war. :33
(If you discount the diseases )

It's not a dirty word. 

Slut.

Slut, slut slut slut slut. 

See? :33



> See, that's what many of the wilder feminist activists are preaching.  It makes zero sense.


But just because some feminists are cunts, it doesn't mean you have to forbid Beyonce from being a cunt and a slut at the same time. The girl has a right to that level of liberation. 

Irrationality!


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

OodboO said:


> Make commentary.
> What is wrong with calling sluts, sluts?
> Sluts are good people. They spread love, not war. :33
> (If you discount the diseases )
> ...


----------



## Easley (Sep 23, 2014)

Emma does seem to have riled up 4chan - but considering how innocent her remarks were about men - it must only be the F word that stirred up this hornet's nest of hatred.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Easley said:


> Emma does seem to have riled up 4chan - but considering how innocent her remarks were about men - it must only be the F word that stirred up this hornet's nest of hatred.



4chan is a bit upset at the moment because sycophant mods to certain internet activists shut down /v/ and GamerGate for a short while.

This'll pass and Emma will give zero fucks in the end.


----------



## Easley (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> 4chan is a bit upset at the moment because sycophant mods to certain internet activists shut down /v/ and GamerGate for a short while.
> 
> This'll pass and Emma will give zero fucks in the end.


Good to know. I admit that I'm not very knowledgeable about 4chan. I've been there once in the last 5 years and felt a bit lost. I have no idea how they operate or what sets them off against someone but they are certainly feared by internet users.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 23, 2014)

Easley said:


> Emma does seem to have riled up 4chan - but considering how innocent her remarks were about men - it must only be the F word that stirred up this hornet's nest of hatred.



4chan is one of the largest gathering of socially dysfunctional individuals I've seen yet. So of course you'll have those losing their shit over it. I don't think you can say as has been attempted, to portray that as being the entirety of the board though.

Not to mention have we not had cases where SJW types have intentionally posted messages of such a nature in hopes of stirring the hornets nest, so to speak?


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> 4chan is one of the largest gathering of socially dysfunctional individuals I've seen yet. So of course you'll have those losing their shit over it. I don't think you can say as has been attempted, to portray that as being the entirety of the board though.
> 
> Not to mention have we not had cases where SJW types have intentionally posted messages of such a nature in hopes of stirring the hornets nest, so to speak?



Don't forget that 4chan hasn't gotten people fired via smear campaigns, like SJWs did with the guy who created #notyourshield.


----------



## Easley (Sep 23, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> 4chan is one of the largest gathering of socially dysfunctional individuals I've seen yet. So of course you'll have those losing their shit over it. I don't think you can say as has been attempted, to portray that as being the entirety of the board though.


Not the whole board, but 4chan's notoriety could be like a badge of honor to them. When their name is mentioned in the news do they feel pride? Maybe. 



> Not to mention have we not had cases where SJW types have intentionally posted messages of such a nature in hopes of stirring the hornets nest, so to speak?


It works both ways I guess. I didn't mean to imply that 4chan users are unique in this regard. It's easy to rile folks up over the internet, and in most cases it elicits a response. No harm done unless there's malicious intent.


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> So, they're free to dress and act like a slut but God forbid a man (or even a woman) look or make commentary about it?
> 
> See, that's what many of the wilder feminist activists are preaching.  It makes zero sense.



Men can make commentary on anything they want! Equal rights!  
But slut shaming or rape jokes or thinking that a woman dresses "provocatively" solely for a man's sexual arousal and not her own are the "up in arms" stuff.  This goes for women as well, or really *especially*.  

It's the mentality that propagates victim blaming "they shouldn't have had nudes on their phones!" "She shouldn't have been wearing that" that really gets us fems down 

But there are bigger, feminist fish to fry.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 23, 2014)

OodboO said:


> Make commentary.
> What is wrong with calling sluts, sluts?
> Sluts are good people. They spread love, not war. :33
> (If you discount the diseases )
> ...



Actually, as jarring as it sounds, I consider "slut" synonymous with male "stud", so if I call a girl one, it's a compliment. It means she's cool, hot and sexy and I dig her. Nothing offensive.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 23, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> Men can make commentary on anything they want! Equal rights!
> But slut shaming or rape jokes or thinking that a woman dresses "provocatively" solely for a man's sexual arousal and not her own are the "up in arms" stuff.  This goes for women as well, or really *especially*.
> 
> It's the mentality that propagates victim blaming "they shouldn't have had nudes on their phones!" "She shouldn't have been wearing that" that really gets us fems down
> ...



I don't believe those. If I dress in a revealing way, I don't have to explain why I'm doing it and it shouldn't justify rape. Neither for men nor women.

I really have a hard time understanding modern society's problem with revealing outfits!


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> Actually, as jarring as it sounds, I consider "slut" synonymous with male "stud", so if I call a girl one, it's a compliment. It means she's cool, hot and sexy and I dig her. Nothing offensive.



Not jarring.  You're the start of social change 

Also, if you're going to make comments, be respectful.  That's the main thing


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

Sleipnyr said:


> I don't believe those. If I dress in a revealing way, I don't have to explain why I'm doing it and it shouldn't justify rape. Neither for men nor women.
> 
> I really have a hard time understanding modern society's problem with revealing outfits!



That's good.  People shouldn't have to explain!  That's the thing.

I would like to know what men and women think when they see a woman in a revealing outfit. Legitimately.  Why do we get so down on each other?????


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

OodboO said:


> I don't understand what the problem is with Beyonce's feminism. Isn't feminism about liberating women to be free to do whatever the eff they want!? Which includes dressing and acting like a slut?



Oh god. I can't believe I'm agreeing with you.



Sleipnyr said:


> I don't believe those. If I dress in a revealing way, I don't have to explain why I'm doing it and it shouldn't justify rape. Neither for men nor women. I really have a hard time understanding modern society's problem with revealing outfits!



I actually don't get it either.



Subarashii said:


> Men can make commentary on anything they want! Equal rights!
> But slut shaming or rape jokes or thinking that a woman dresses "provocatively" solely for a man's sexual arousal and not her own are the "up in arms" stuff.  This goes for women as well, or really *especially*.
> 
> It's the mentality that propagates victim blaming "they shouldn't have had nudes on their phones!" "She shouldn't have been wearing that" that really gets us fems down
> ...



Too true.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Oh god. I can't believe I'm agreeing with you.



You missed his subsequent post dripped in sarcasm about the one you just quoted.

If you seriously agree to that, you really need to analyze that stance.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

Good that she was being sarcastic. I don't want to agree with... what's the name again... oh yes, oodboo. And no, I don't need to analyse that stance.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Good that she was being sarcastic. I don't want to agree with... what's the name again... oh yes, oodboo. And no, I don't need to analyse that stance.



Well no Beyonce isn't being sarcastic.  Oodboo was being sarcastic.

Beyonce is an idiot when it comes to activism.  She endorsed Ban Bossy for God's sake, something so stupid that it fizzled within a month.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> Well no Beyonce isn't being sarcastic.  Oodboo was being sarcastic.



I know that, read the sentence. There's only one she being mentioned.



> Beyonce is an idiot when it comes to activism.  She endorsed Ban Bossy for God's sake, something so stupid that it fizzled within a month.



Of course Beyonce is an idiot when it comes to activism, but so is Emma quite frankly. Did you see me saying she's so amazing regarding this? I really made my point "clear" before. Why do you think I said 'no comments' on both?


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Actually ch1p you didn't explain your "no comment" and if anything your derision of Beyonce would've been more appreciated.

You may have a leg up in the HoU but not here.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> Actually ch1p you didn't explain your "no comment" and if anything your derision of Beyonce would've been more appreciated.
> 
> You may have a leg up in the HoU but not here.



I said 'No comment on either one, tbh'. I'm pretty sure that speaks volumes of how... questionable the two of them are. They have both good points and bad points. That's why, no comment.

Dude, get some notion.


----------



## OodboO (Sep 23, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Oh god. I can't believe I'm agreeing with you.



I can't believe you keep finding me.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

OodboO said:


> I can't believe you're everywhere!



Of course I am. I am omnipresent. 

EDIT: nice persecution complex there but no dice.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

God help us.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

Never thought you'd be religious. You don't seem the type.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

ch1p said:


> Never thought you'd be religious. You don't seem the type.



I meant it figuratively.

Would you prefer I requested the mercy of FSG?


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> I meant it figuratively.
> 
> Would you prefer I requested the mercy of FSG?



What is FSG? Some modern warfare spinoff?


----------



## Easley (Sep 23, 2014)

ch1p said:


> I know that, read the sentence. There's only one she being mentioned.


OodboO is female? I'm shocked.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

She had a cute dancing girl avatar before. Seems like it to me.


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

Easley said:


> OodboO is female? I'm shocked.



Me too
But only because on the internet you are a dude until proven girl.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

ch1p said:


> What is FSG? Some modern warfare spinoff?



Flying Spaghetti Monster .

What did you say about notions again?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 23, 2014)

Punished Pathos said:


> Lets allow Male emasculation in western society. (sarcasm)
> We have already Rappers wearing Skirts.
> Wake up!
> This is all an agenda



What counts as masculinity will vary from man to man. Believe it or not, some men are comfortable with not being stoic robots and some don't mind dressing as women for plays or due to preference. Good for them I say, be comfortable in who you are.

Nevermind that Watson is saying that if a man wants to be a roided up freak who wants to wrestle wild animals in the jungle like some Tarzan then he can do that too. 



Easley said:


> Good to know. I admit that I'm not very knowledgeable about 4chan. I've been there once in the last 5 years and felt a bit lost. I have no idea how they operate or what sets them off against someone but they are certainly feared by internet users.



The only thing 4chan inspires is shame on themselves.


----------



## reiatsuflow (Sep 23, 2014)

It's sometimes hard to figure out the lines between being respectful of someone else's limitations/disenfranchisement and treating them like children. Those limitations need to be so well defined that you can make the exception without tripping up and just condescending to them. You get to the point where you're talking about men having to take responsibility and be adult about this because the women aren't able to be our equals without our help. Don't frame it about men stopping their own behaviors so women can be equals. Frame it about women having the equality to go after persecuting men for innapropriate behaviors, and men will stop it on their own eventually. The whole reason these laws and offenses got out of hand seems to be due to legal sleights of hand that made it hard for women to persecute a man for rape or assault and other things like that. It doesn't necessarily take a public service announcement. It just takes a more even distribution of lawful rights on both sides of the gender line.

Sometimes it's just easier to let force sort out equality by giving everybody the same rights and laws on their side. It's not that simple, but that's the principle I side with. If I hear about some group of people who are being picked on by an institution, sometimes it's not about trying to change the institution. Sometimes it's about trying to empower the people so they can attack that institution back, and by the meeting of force against force, a kind of meditation and equality sorts itself out quicker and surer than sensitivity training.

So I think a good way to create worthwhile equality is to give both sides the same lawful rights. It's not to put men in sensitivity training. Honestly, do you think these No Means No public service campaigns are really getting through to men or do you think what's really getting through to guys are all of these court cases with people getting dragged up in front of the national spotlight and pulled through the media mud because someone accused them of rape?


----------



## ch1p (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> Flying Spaghetti Monster .



But FSG... there's a G in it, not an M. Even so, I've seen that once. Didn't look very godly to me. But everyone has their tastes. 



> What did you say about notions again?



It's on the other page... But I remember, that you should get some.  You're welcome.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Sep 23, 2014)

> I've seen that once. Didn't look very godly to me. But everyone has their tastes.





Do not ridicule the Great Old Noddle/Pasta.


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

reiatsuflow said:


> It's sometimes hard to figure out the lines between being respectful of someone else's limitations/disenfranchisement and treating them like children. Those limitations need to be so well defined that you can make the exception without tripping up and just condescending to them. You get to the point where you're talking about men having to take responsibility and be adult about this because the women aren't able to be our equals without our help. Don't frame it about men stopping their own behaviors so women can be equals. Frame it about women having the equality to go after persecuting men for innapropriate behaviors, and men will stop it on their own eventually. The whole reason these laws and offenses got out of hand seems to be due to legal sleights of hand that made it hard for women to persecute a man for rape or assault and other things like that. It doesn't necessarily take a public service announcement. It just takes a more even distribution of lawful rights on both sides of the gender line.
> 
> Sometimes it's just easier to let force sort out equality by giving everybody the same rights and laws on their side. It's not that simple, but that's the principle I side with. If I hear about some group of people who are being picked on by an institution, sometimes it's not about trying to change the institution. Sometimes it's about trying to empower the people so they can attack that institution back, and by the meeting of force against force, a kind of meditation and equality sorts itself out quicker and surer than sensitivity training.
> 
> So I think a good way to create worthwhile equality is to give both sides the same lawful rights. It's not to put men in sensitivity training. Honestly, do you think these No Means No public service campaigns are really getting through to men or do you think what's really getting through to guys are all of these court cases with people getting dragged up in front of the national spotlight and pulled through the media mud because someone accused them of rape?



In the US everyone has the rights and all laws pertain to everyone equally.  Bias on the other hand is not so equal.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Hoisted by my own petard I concede.


----------



## Savior (Sep 23, 2014)

Some real scum online.



> (CNN) -- Emma Watson is experiencing the ugly side of advocacy.
> 
> According to reports, Watson's recent impassioned speech for gender equality at the United Nations has drawn backlash, including a threat to leak alleged nude photos of the star.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

It's online commentary and 4chan.

IIRC it wasn't 4chan who hacked those Jennifer Lawrence pics either.

And online feminists shouldn't speak when they're getting innocent people fired who disagree with them.


----------



## sadated_peon (Sep 23, 2014)

What I find funny is how much weight people are giving to a single 4chan user. It seems crazy to me. 

someone made a website..... wooooooow, what ever can we do next.... truly this mastermind is beyond all of us.... fear feeble mortals for death is upon you.


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> It's online commentary and 4chan.
> 
> IIRC it wasn't 4chan who hacked those Jennifer Lawrence pics either.
> 
> And online feminists shouldn't speak when they're getting innocent people fired who disagree with them.



Who did that?

Where did the photos first emerge?


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

I believe it was reddit.


----------



## reiatsuflow (Sep 23, 2014)

> In the US everyone has the rights and all laws pertain to everyone equally. Bias on the other hand is not so equal.



I don't know if that's a true statement. I don't think all laws pertain to everybody equally. They demonstrably don't in divorce, marriage, child care. It's against the law to rape a woman, but our definitions of illegal sexual misconduct have been difficult to prove and persecute. The legal system seems to be doing what they can of late to better define the parameters of that misconduct and give women more representation and recourse, but that's what I was talking about.

I'm also not concerned about gender inequality in the united states. That doesn't mean I don't think there's gender inequality. It just doesn't concern me because it's clearly improving and enough people are invested in the cause to ensure it keeps improving. But these groups are speaking at the UN because of other countries with more unfair legal entitlements between men and women.


----------



## OodboO (Sep 23, 2014)

Easley said:


> OodboO is female? I'm shocked.



Why would I seem like a boy to you?


----------



## iJutsu (Sep 23, 2014)

These feminist need stfu. Things can never be equal. If they want to be equal, then grow a dick and be a man.


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

Mael said:


> I believe it was reddit.



I googled it. It was 4chan!!!!!!!!!!
Classic.


----------



## Subarashii (Sep 23, 2014)

iJutsu said:


> These feminist need stfu. Things can never be equal. If they want to be equal, then grow a dick and be a man.


----------



## Savior (Sep 23, 2014)

iJutsu said:


> These feminist need stfu. Things can never be equal. If they want to be equal, then grow a dick and be a man.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> I googled it. It was 4chan!!!!!!!!!!
> Classic.



Huh.  Learn something new everyday.

I was told it was reddit and imgur.


----------



## Juda (Sep 23, 2014)

> We have already Rappers wearing Skirts.



Actually, it was completely normal wearing skirts. In some countries is something you wear as a traditional ceremony . But even that, it was considered a norm back then . It still is considered a norm but not so widely anymore .

Side Note: Its pretty sad, you know like, when a women wants to advocate for women and such, she is never given the respect she deserves. We got people saying that just cause of her career means she shouldn't advocate for women completely ignoring the message shes saying. Shes a women, no different from any other women, the only difference is that her words can be heard more compared to someone who doesnt have the resources or people . 

I'd give an example but I dont think id be a good example but its like Obama advocating for all Brown people alike but because of his career, he shouldn't be speaking.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

Kilts, baby, kilts.


----------



## Easley (Sep 23, 2014)

OodboO said:


> Why would I seem like a boy to you?


I never said you seem like a boy. I'm shocked that you're a girl. 

I didn't even notice your gender, I just replied to someone who did. Sorry.

Let's be honest, your "slut" post on page 6 was a bit crazy. Cunts and sluts, very eloquent. It was humorous and possibly sarcastic which is fine by me. I come to NF to relax, believe it or not.


----------



## OodboO (Sep 23, 2014)

Easley said:


> I never said you seem like a boy. I'm shocked that you're a girl.
> 
> I didn't even notice your gender, I just replied to someone who did. Sorry.
> 
> Let's be honest, your "slut" post on page 6 was a bit crazy. Cunts and sluts, very eloquent. It was humorous and possibly sarcastic which is fine by me. I come to NF to relax, believe it or not.



You accept my slurs. 

Thank you!


----------



## Deleted member 23 (Sep 23, 2014)

Easley said:


> Emma does seem to have riled up 4chan - but considering how innocent her remarks were about men - it must only be the F word that stirred up this hornet's nest of hatred.





Mael said:


> 4chan is a bit upset at the moment because sycophant mods to certain internet activists shut down /v/ and GamerGate for a short while.





Seto Kaiba said:


> 4chan is one of the largest gathering of socially dysfunctional individuals I've seen yet. So of course you'll have those losing their shit over it. I don't think you can say as has been attempted, to portray that as being the entirety of the board though.
> 
> Not to mention have we not had cases where SJW types have intentionally posted messages of such a nature in hopes of stirring the hornets nest, so to speak?





Mael said:


> Don't forget that 4chan hasn't gotten people fired via smear campaigns, like SJWs did with the guy who created #notyourshield.





Easley said:


> Not the whole board, but 4chan's notoriety could be like a badge of honor to them. When their name is mentioned in the news do they feel pride? Maybe.
> 
> It works both ways I guess. I didn't mean to imply that 4chan users are unique in this regard. It's easy to rile folks up over the internet, and in most cases it elicits a response. No harm done unless there's malicious intent.



You guys are way outta loop, 4chan is having some internal war right now. And as for the Emma thing 4chan doesn't care. If they would have leaked nudes of Emma, they would of been the first to go.

If you guys think that's what is really going to happen in 4chan you're as gullible as the media. People on 4chan do have a brain, they either they don't care or agree to what she said.


----------



## Psycho (Sep 23, 2014)

just adding to the discussion


----------



## Deleted member 23 (Sep 23, 2014)

Psycho said:


> just adding to the discussion



But it's not 4chan, it's viral marketing.


----------



## Mael (Sep 23, 2014)

But seriously, we need more Emmas to stop the Big Reds and Anitas.

Oh and for the record, welcome to a real rape culture:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27615590


----------



## DeathScream (Sep 23, 2014)

beyonce is so feminist that the rumors about her private sessions being more like Brazzers porn movies are more fake than a porn actress tits


good to see that emma watson has her mind and heart focused in the right path, rather than bullshit and fame like Quinn, Sarkeesian and the SJW communists


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Sep 23, 2014)

Woah . Nine pages ? Why is the media all over this ? Why is anyone over this ?


----------



## blueblip (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> But seriously, we need more Emmas to stop the Big Reds and Anitas.
> 
> Oh and for the record, welcome to a real rape culture:
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27615590


You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?


----------



## OodboO (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> But seriously, we need more Emmas to stop the Big Reds and Anitas.



No, no way in hell. Emmas of this world are the ones who enable the Anitas and the Redheads. Emmas just sound more mild mannered and that's only because they interpret the ideologies differently, or are just plain ignorant when it comes to them. They call themselves feminist and because there are so many Emmas feminism remains an influential buzzword. Thanks to that, the Redheads and the Anitas who are the most insane and most willing to influence society, actually manage to influence it on both cultural and a political level to an unhealthy degree. 
I was a fan of Emma Watson, I even had a bit of a girl crush on her when I was younger and watching Harry Potter, but now I'm really annoyed. 

Unless she calls herself an egalitarian, she may as well be Anita.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

blueblip said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?



Actually I do.  Those Indian/Afghan/Pakistani villages are the places where efforts for justice are so half-assed the raped and murdered victims are forgotten.  Like the UAE case on the raped Frenchwoman, a half-sympathetic judicial system and aspects of marriage and sexual law that literally place the woman as second-class and without nearly as much defense while being shunned by her own family or community should she live.

Oh and let's not forget the other barbaric customs like honor killing and suttee.

And people say the Western world has a rape culture?  Nazism was oppression.  Merely existing as a male on tumblr or in life isn't.

But please, elaborate.

@oodboo: I understand what you're saying but do please take her remarks with some grains of salt.


----------



## OodboO (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> @oodboo: I understand what you're saying but do please take her remarks with some grains of salt.



That's what people always do. Pour salt on it, let it slide...
That's how feminist bullshit survives. It's what it depends on.

So no.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

OodboO said:


> That's what people always do. Pour salt on it, let it slide...
> That's how feminist bullshit survives. It's what it depends on.
> 
> So no.



Relax.  It's rational to believe she wasn't shunning the word egalitarian.

But pray tell, what would you have done?


----------



## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

blueblip said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?



Not in a lot of cases, it was just pointed out in another thread why he's against feminism so much which he constantly ignores to play it slick. Someone just called him out on his shit not too long ago.  

Take a read:



Freedan said:


> This is rich.
> 
> Mael, why did you ignore Flow's comments? You literally admitted to me and that you have problems with women such that you "need to get professional help" after you went and flirted with a dupe that was supposedly underage. I have to ask you the same question, why are you so intimidated by feminism?
> 
> You know, I get the impression that you're intimidated because you actually know that you're the kind of guy these extremist feminists always talk about, and your track record kinda speaks for itself either way. It's quite silly that you, a man that has to get "professional help with his problems with harassing women online" is getting so intimidated by feminism. Lately, you've been really active in this thread and the Emma Watson one, not to mention that whenever the subject comes up in the caf?, you're usually within the first two pages of such a thread. It's not easy to think it's just a coincidence.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

Wow Flow you ARE obsessed.


----------



## OodboO (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> Relax.  It's rational to believe she wasn't shunning the word egalitarian.


If she said she is for equality and called herself a feminist in the same sentence, she is shunning the word egalitarian which means just that. And yes, that's a completely irrational thing to do.

Also please don't presume I'm angry, or emotional in any other way. People who engage in debates online with me always presume I am being emotional and then get surprised when I'm nice to them, think I'm two faced. This is getting annoying how many time it's happened. (_Though I know they sometimes claim emotionality to sound like they are in the right, which is ironically enough two faced on their part._) Please don't waste space pointing to my "emotions". Theatricalism and emotionality are not one and the same. And I'm kinda theatrical. 



> But pray tell, what would you have done?


I would not have given that retarded speech and would not allow the word feminist to be associated with my name.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

OodboO said:


> If she said she is for equality and called herself a feminist in the same sentence, she is shunning the word egalitarian which means just that. And yes, that's a completely irrational thing to do.
> 
> Also please don't presume I'm angry, or emotional in any other way. People who engage in debates online with me always presume I am being emotional and then get surprised when I'm nice to them, think I'm two faced. This is getting annoying how many time it's happened. (_Though I know they sometimes claim emotionality to sound like they are in the right, which is ironically enough two faced on their part._) Please don't waste space pointing to my "emotions". Theatricalism and emotionality are not one and the same. And I'm kinda theatrical.
> 
> ...



Alas I recommend looking into Christina Hoff Sommers, chief spokeswoman for equity feminism.

She's also based as fugg.


----------



## blueblip (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> Actually I do.  Those Indian/Afghan/Pakistani villages are the places where efforts for justice are so half-assed the raped and murdered victims are forgotten.  Like the UAE case on the raped Frenchwoman, a half-sympathetic judicial system and aspects of marriage and sexual law that literally place the woman as second-class and without nearly as much defense while being shunned by her own family or community should she live.
> 
> Oh and let's not forget the other barbaric customs like honor killing and suttee.
> 
> ...


All right then.

1. India doesn't have the same judicial or criminal system like Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the UAE for that matter as their justices systems are derived from sharia law. The very fact that you're equating them shows a complete lack of knowledge on the Indian criminal justice system. Point to one law in India that excuses rape as a crime, or doesn't levy the same penalties and/or heavy-handedness that the US justice system has.

2. Honour killings in India are rare - extremely rare, unlike in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Yes, they have happened, but you make it sound like its an established trend in India, when it really isn't. Again, you're applying the cultural and judicial standards of other countries on a country that has nothing in common with them. In effect, you're blindly lumping them all together because YOU think they one and same. We call that 'acting out of ignorance'.

3. "Those Indian/Afghan/Pakistani villages are the places where efforts for justice are so half-assed the raped and murdered victims are forgotten." Just like how top US universities have so mishandled rape and sexual assault claims that it warrants federal intervention and investigation? Or are you trying to claim that every single rape case is reported to US law enforcement, or that US law enforcement has never (and continues to) undermine rape victims and their cries for help? Remember the case of Brandon Teena? How the cop, instead of focusing on the fact that she was raped, instead ended up asking questions about whether the rapist had a hard on or not, and questioning the victim on how a man could not have a hard on when looking at a naked girl, and how instead of arresting the rapist, he did nothing and the victim ended up getting murdered later?

For every mismanagement of a rape case in India, I can literally point to one in the US. A one to one ratio. But at least in India, we are willing to talk about it. Our media is now reporting any and every rape case it can get its hands on. If, by your logic, India has a rape culture, then by golly! The US - which has the exact same problems and standards regarding rape - is guilty of having a rape culture too! 

You don't see the same interest in rape from the US media. There is rarely any discussion, there is rarely any talk. The very fact that you know about rapes going on in India is BECAUSE the general public (and by extension the media) are bothered by it and WANT to discuss. Which is a lot more than can be said about American indifference towards rape.


----------



## OodboO (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> She's also based as fugg.



 I in all honesty have no idea what this sentence means.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

OodboO said:


> I in all honesty have no idea what this sentence means.





Blueblip I'll address you shortly but a 1:1 ratio?  Got stats?


----------



## blueblip (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> Blueblip I'll address you shortly but a 1:1 ratio?  Got stats?


I meant in more in terms of anecdotes and incidences were police and official oversight/incompetence didn't lead to any investigation or proper handling of a rape or assault claim. After all, most of the issues regarding India's rape problem boils down to people pointing at individual anecdotes or events, and never any stats being quoted or shown to justify the claim of a 'rape culture'.

I can dig up stats, but that'd have to wait till much later in the evening my time.

Just to be clear, I'm wholeheartedly of the opinion rape IS a problem in my country. BUT...it's not anymore worse of better than most other countries (eg. the US). It's not symbolic of rape culture, but that rape is a problem that needs to be tackled.

EDIT: Forgot to address the issue of sati you raised (not 'suttee'). Sati was outlawed in the friggin' 1800s, and hasn't been practiced since then. And even before it was criminalised, it wasn't a widespread cultural practice, being limited to a few states (or princely kingdoms, as that's what existed back in the day). Do you get the occasional case of it happening in the present? Yeah. Like, once every few years. 30 cases between 1947 and 1983. It's the same as claiming an entire nation condones serial killing because once every few years a serial killer pops up and goes on a spree.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

blueblip said:


> I meant in more in terms of anecdotes and incidences were police and official oversight/incompetence didn't lead to any investigation or proper handling of a rape or assault claim. After all, most of the issues regarding India's rape problem boils down to people pointing at individual anecdotes or events, and never any stats being quoted or shown to justify the claim of a 'rape culture'.
> 
> I can dig up stats, but that'd have to wait till much later in the evening my time.
> 
> ...



The thing is, the United States goes ballistic once a rape case is brought up to the point where education is getting obsessive over it and colleges are revamping their entire social structures around it.  You can answer this for me but is India, particularly in these villages, as stringent about it?

You make a fair point that India isn't as bad as Afghanistan, Pakistan, or some other Middle Eastern nations, because it's not.  However, the chain of gang rapes doesn't pain a pretty picture and I wonder if the rapists/murderers were indeed caught.

I should've said Yemen.  Now THAT is a rape culture:



> Yemen law does not recognize marital rape and does not provide a minimum age for marriage. The issues of child marriage and child rape inside marriage have made international news and have led to calls for legislative changes.  There have been several reports of deaths of young girls due to violent rape by adult husbands, as well as young girls dying during childbirth.  Human rights watch stated that "Child marriages and forced marriages remain widespread, exposing young girls to domestic violence and maternal mortality and truncating their education.



Or Bangladesh:



> Bangladesh has received criticism for its employment of the "two-finger test" in rape investigations. This test consists in a physical examination of women who report rape during which a doctor inserts two fingers in the woman's vagina to determine whether the woman is "habituated to sex". This examination has its origin in the country's British colonial-era laws dating back to 1872. This deters many women from reporting rape. More than 100 experts, including doctors, lawyers, police, and women's rights activists had signed a joint statement in 2013 asking for the test, which they called "demeaning", to be abolished, as it "does not provide any evidence that is relevant to proving the offence." This test is also performed in several other countries in the region, including India.
> 
> The United Nations Multi-country Study on Men and Violence asked men in rural and urban Bangladesh if they had forced a woman to have sex at any point in their lives. 14.1% of men in rural Bangladesh and 9.5% of men in urban Bangladesh said yes (10% averaged). 2.7% of men in rural Bangladesh and 0.5% (6/1252) in urban Bangladesh had raped in the past year. In rural Bangladesh 47.4% of rapists perpetrated more than once, 3.7% had four or more victims, and 40% first raped as a teenager. 82% of rural Bangladeshi and 79% of urban Bangladeshi men cited entitlement as their reason for rape. 61.2% of urban Bangladeshi men who had raped did not feel guilty or worried afterwards, and 95.1% experienced no legal consequences. 3.7% of men in rural Bangladesh had raped another man. 89.2% of urban Bangladeshi men answered 'agree' or 'strongly agree' to the statement 'if a woman doesn't physically fight back, it's not rape.'



My point was, the internet community makes such a stink about how America is this Bro Team of Rape Culture yet cannot, does not, and will not address the far worse demons out there.  It's like people who willfully ignore the atrocities of ISIS.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 24, 2014)

When a women says gender equality they mean.

Womens > Men

When a man says gender equality they mean.

Men = Womens

Its that fucking stupid


----------



## Psycho (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> The thing is, the United States goes ballistic once a rape case is brought up to the point where education is getting obsessive over it and colleges are revamping their entire social structures around it.  You can answer this for me but is India, particularly in these villages, as stringent about it?
> 
> You make a fair point that India isn't as bad as Afghanistan, Pakistan, or some other Middle Eastern nations, because it's not.  However, the chain of gang rapes doesn't pain a pretty picture and I wonder if the rapists/murderers were indeed caught.
> 
> ...



rape culture is not about the number of rapes, rape culture is called that because the society highjacks the female body, determines how often it is acceptable for her to have sex, who she should have sex with, determines how much she must dress herself in order to be considered decent or a whore; that's a rape culture, not to say bangladesh and yemen aren't, but the united states also is


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

"Rape culture" is a fucking stupid term. Particularly when used in the context of western civilization.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> When a women says gender equality they mean.
> 
> Womens > Men
> 
> ...



Welcome to modern liberal activist logic.



Psycho said:


> rape culture is not about the number of rapes, rape culture is called that because the society highjacks the female body, determines how often it is acceptable for her to have sex, who she should have sex with, determines how much she must dress herself in order to be considered decent or a whore; that's a rape culture, not to say bangladesh and yemen aren't, but the united states also is



That's hilarious.  You're overlooking the availability of birth control, judicial systems highly favoring women, how lives can be instantly destroyed by a simple accusation, that there's no forced clothing for women unless they're part of a *PRIVATE* institution or company.



Seto Kaiba said:


> "Rape culture" is a fucking stupid term. Particularly when used in the context of western civilization.



You can only work with the tools they give you.


----------



## blueblip (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> The thing is, the United States goes ballistic once a rape case is brought up to the point where education is getting obsessive over it and colleges are revamping their entire social structures around it.  You can answer this for me but is India, particularly in these villages, as stringent about it?


Yes and no. There have been massive education and information programs launched in villages, and even the worst rural areas of the country, the vast majority of Indians have never really had any truck with rape. There have been a slew of changes to the country's laws to make it easier for women to register cases of rape, harassment (sexual or otherwise), and so on. Some are pretty lopsided.



An infamous one is called Section 498A. This section of the Indian Penal Code was created to tackle the problem of women who were abused by their in-laws. As per the law, any family that has a 498A case registered against them is immediately arrested, and then asked questions. This includes arresting the mother-in-law, father-in-law, the husband, the husband's siblings, and maybe others if they have had contact with the wife who filed the complaint. Geographic location is irrelevant. It has turned out that most of the 498A cases that are now being registered are false, and are actually being used by women to blackmail the husband's family into doing what they want.





I actually do know of three separate families personally where the women extorted money from their in-laws by claiming that if they didn't give her money on demand, they would register a 498A against them. Two have ended in divorce, while in the third case they called the woman's bluff and are still going through hell. The sad part is the law was drafted to implement harsh measure because of the problems women faced/face in India. But sadly, it's not being used to protect women who need protecting, but by malicious people who know that the law is stacked on their side. It's a catch-22 we're facing: loosen the laws, and it's likely many wife abusers - who are right now scared shitless because of it - will go back to being abusers. Keep it as it is, and women who are malicious will keep abusing the fuck out of it.



> You make a fair point that India isn't as bad as Afghanistan, Pakistan, or some other Middle Eastern nations, because it's not.  However, the chain of gang rapes doesn't pain a pretty picture and I wonder if the rapists/murderers were indeed caught.


The chain is visible because society as a whole here wants it to be visible. Go anywhere, and you'll find people talking about it, talking that they want something done. Part of the reason many established governments fell out of power in the recent elections was because people were tired of the same assholes not doing anything to address women's security. You still have misogynistic assholes in government - they're not going to go away overnight - but when they say stupid shit now, they get censured by their parties. A marked improvement.



> I should've said Yemen.  Now THAT is a rape culture:


Yemen's problems are so myriad and fucked up that I've always held the opinion that rape is a *by-product* of all the stupid shit that goes on there. I've been to Yemen. I'm not joking that I can't recall seeing a single woman by herself on the streets the time I was there. Believe me, until you're there, you can't BEGIN to imagine how screwed up the country is!



> Or Bangladesh:


Bangladesh is a lot like Pakistan (heck, it WAS a part of Pakistan until 30-40 year ago). It's again a country with a judiciary based on sharia law. Can't expect much. Though you do have to give it to them - their one of the few countries on the planet that's had a woman head of state!



> My point was, the internet community makes such a stink about how America is this Bro Team of Rape Culture yet cannot, does not, and will not address the far worse demons out there.  It's like people who willfully ignore the atrocities of ISIS.


I know where you're coming from - I've been posting here for far too long not too 

Let me share my view point on how I sort this out in my brain; you might like it and adopt it. I classify 'problems' into two categories - one's that directly affect my country, and ones that don't. Of the former, I pay attention because it is my damn country, and I think it needs to be solved. The rest of the world can burn in hell for all I care; I'm obviously going to care more about me and mine first and foremost. So when I look at India, I do think rape is a problem. Is it as bad as most of the world? Not at all! But is it a problem that my country has to tackle? Of course it does!

ISIS falls into the latter category, and as such, I don't link them with the problems my country faces. Yes, they're pretty much scum on the earth and do some pretty heinous things, but let's face it - ranting about them is pointless because my country still has problems of its own to deal with. Pointing at ISIS and saying, "Look at how bad THEY are!" is, to me, deflecting the issue of homegrown problem's which (in my mind) hold a higher priority.

To simplify: I could be living in an almost-utopia like country, and the rest of the world could be hell on earth. But regardless, I'm still going to focus on the problems in my country first. The world can always come later.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 24, 2014)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...o-leak-was-a-very-elaborate-hoax-9752810.html

There's a surprise; the threat to leak Emma Watson's nudes was a hoax.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

Gunners said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...o-leak-was-a-very-elaborate-hoax-9752810.html
> 
> There's a surprise; the threat to leak Emma Watson's nudes was a hoax.



Gotta admit I was fooled.  I really did think 4chan did this.

But given the whole #gamergate issue and how the SJWs are rampaging against 4chan, I should've seen something like this coming.


----------



## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> Wow Flow you ARE obsessed.



Are you going to respond to this post? I find it a lot easier to keep responding to you, since the irony in this is hilarious



Freedan said:


> This is rich.
> 
> Mael, why did you ignore Flow's comments? You literally admitted to me and that *you have problems with women such that you "need to get professional help" after you went and flirted with a dupe that was supposedly underage. I have to ask you the same question, why are you so intimidated by feminism*?
> 
> You know, I get the impression that you're intimidated because you actually know that you're the kind of guy these extremist feminists always talk about, and your track record kinda speaks for itself either way. It's quite silly that you, a man that has to get "professional help with his problems with harassing women online" is getting so intimidated by feminism. Lately, you've been really active in this thread and the Emma Watson one, not to mention that whenever the subject comes up in the caf?, you're usually within the first two pages of such a thread. It's not easy to think it's just a coincidence.








The Faceless Man said:


> When a women says gender equality they mean.
> 
> Womens > Men
> 
> ...



Nice generalizations.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)




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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

Since you keep dodging and avoiding this comment I'll post it again:




Freedan said:


> This is rich.
> 
> Mael, why did you ignore Flow's comments? You literally admitted to me and that you have problems with women such that you "need to get professional help" after you went and flirted with a dupe that was supposedly underage. I have to ask you the same question, why are you so intimidated by feminism?
> 
> You know, I get the impression that you're intimidated because you actually know that you're the kind of guy these extremist feminists always talk about, and your track record kinda speaks for itself either way. It's quite silly that you, a man that has to get "professional help with his problems with harassing women online" is getting so intimidated by feminism. Lately, you've been really active in this thread and the Emma Watson one, not to mention that whenever the subject comes up in the caf?, you're usually within the first two pages of such a thread. It's not easy to think it's just a coincidence.



If you want to start posting photos, I'll be happy to participate. More specifically the one with picture you took of the 15 year old girl named "Talia" with a note in your mouth trying to 'surprise' her. 

Keep saying "obsessed", I'll start posting the private messages of you admitting that you had  "hype sexual issues with women" to turn this whole campaign again Feminism you got going on against you.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

Clearly your jimmies are getting rustled since I'm not the only one pointing this out.  You bother Seto and MOP demanding contact info and you're telling me you're not being obsessive over trolling me?

You can tell now I'm starting to not give a darn and will continue to post my opinion regardless of past stupid mistakes or not.

And nice catch Gunners.  Looks like SJWs are caught with their pants down again?


----------



## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

Call it irritation, 'rustled' or whatever, I don't care about your small group of loyal friends that defend you (not really, they still call it creepy and fucked up and some even laughed at you over it) over the fact that you engaged with harassing multiple women online, got warned by people not to do it again, then still went ahead and flirted with an "underage girl". Keep trying to push that aside.

I hope you do continue giving your opinion about feminism, it makes the irony more hilarious. It's even funnier when you call people obtuse or an idiot. That's the big kicker.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

Judging by your reactions to them, agree to disagree.

And my opinion on feminism carries no irony.  For the umpteenth time, I believe in equity feminism and decry the bullshit people are following now.  Of course since you mention obtuse, you're clearly ignoring that in your obsession.


----------



## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> Judging by your reactions to them, agree to disagree.



If me being "irritated" is the stretch of your argument, keep trying to prove that I am. 



> And my opinion on feminism carries no irony.



Mael.

You're constantly in every feminism thread, and generalize feminist all the time and denounce the west while being a hypocrite. Taking what I said before:



> over the fact that you engaged with harassing multiple women online, got warned by people not to do it again, then still went ahead and flirted with an "underage girl". Keep trying to push that aside.



Is like a racist wanting to give his two cents on "black struggle". Out of all the things that are on the internet, you complain about feminism the most because you're intimidated by it for your track record. 

Of course, you won't bring up the fact that of what you did and will instead try to ignore it, regurgitate other people's arguments, and wait for your 4-something friends to defend you when things get a little too hot and heavy for you to handle.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> Clearly your jimmies are getting rustled since I'm not the only one pointing this out.  You bother Seto and MOP demanding contact info and you're telling me you're not being obsessive over trolling me?
> 
> You can tell now I'm starting to not give a darn and will continue to post my opinion regardless of past stupid mistakes or not.
> 
> And nice catch Gunners.  Looks like SJWs are caught with their pants down again?



Seems that way from what I have been reading. 

I think one of the issues with the present era is the law hasn't quite caught up to journalism. I know in the UK, and I'm assuming it's similar elsewhere, it is enough for a publisher to print a corrective update in the same format. That approach was okay, up until the mid 00s. Nowadays it doesn't cut the mustard as the original article pretty much becomes irrelevant once news go viral. A great obligation needs to be placed on news reporters to verify their sources.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

Gunners said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...o-leak-was-a-very-elaborate-hoax-9752810.html
> 
> There's a surprise; the threat to leak Emma Watson's nudes was a hoax.



Well there's a surprise. SJWs have pulled this shit before, I figured it would have to possibly another case of it. It's like what is going on in /v/ right now.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 24, 2014)

Talia said:


> Nice generalizations.



Its not generalizations when the majority is like that...

gen?er?al?i?za?tion

: a general statement : a statement about a group of people or things that is based on only a few people or things in that group


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## Krory (Sep 24, 2014)

" Emma Watson's U.N. speech on gender equality prompts Beyonc? "

What?


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

krory said:


> " Emma Watson's U.N. speech on gender equality prompts Beyonc? "
> 
> What?



All the single ladies...


----------



## Easley (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> When a women says gender equality they mean.
> 
> Womens > Men
> 
> ...


I think true equality, not the female supremacy dream espoused by radical feminists, is what most women want. Me too! Yes, equality, not superiority. Feminists are very loud and know how to get their message across, but they don't speak for all women. They'd rather sit in their ivory tower and preach to the rest of us. Every movement has a lunatic fringe but feminism is now synonymous with the loonies.

You can only push people so far, in this case men, before there's a huge backlash and feminism becomes just another failed ideology. Unfortunately, liberal feminism has its claws in the mainstream media. Journalism is a popular career choice for young women, and this allows them to control the debate. The 'women' section in the Guardian is almost nonstop feminism and sexism articles. It's awful. They don't talk about anything else! Mass brainwashing = more drones for the feminist collective.

Things need to change.


----------



## Easley (Sep 24, 2014)

I love this quote by Margaret Thatcher:

?The feminists hate me, don?t they? And I don?t blame them. For I hate feminism. It is poison.? 

Right on Maggie! You didn't need any of that crap to succeed. An inspiration to us all.


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## OodboO (Sep 24, 2014)

Yeah it's common knowledge that truly successful and actually intelligent women always resent feminism. The very women feminists point out as these special exceptions in order to prove how much more special women are compared to men, these great women who are supposedly oppressed, that feminists are fighting for, almost always hate them.

Feminists are flat out patronising them and leeching of their success. It's hateful.
I've met a couple of those women. It's very fun to watch them engage other women in conversations. Just when you expect her to nod at all the feminist bullshit, she starts spewing venom. It's absolutely adorable. :33


----------



## baconbits (Sep 24, 2014)

Easley said:


> I love this quote by Margaret Thatcher:
> 
> ?The feminists hate me, don?t they? And I don?t blame them. For I hate feminism. It is poison.?
> 
> Right on Maggie! You didn't need any of that crap to succeed. An inspiration to us all.



One of the things that made me wake up to the feminist movement is how they trash any woman who is successful but isn't a leftist.  You're not exactly consistent when you defend Bill Clinton's treatment of Monica Lewinsky but routinely slam Thatcher in sexist terms.


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## OodboO (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Its not generalizations when the majority is like that...
> 
> gen?er?al?i?za?tion
> 
> : a general statement : a statement about a group of people or things that is based on only a few people or things in that group



I'd beg to differ. A generalisation can be based on 80% of members of a group and still be a generalisation. Unless you have accurate data on 100% of units of a group, you're making a generalisation.

The problem here is not if the generalisation is there, or not. 
The problem is that a generalisation is seen as something bad. A generalisation is essential for anything, for language itself! We have general definitions of everything to be able to speak at all, let alone convey some deeper thoughts. 
To accuse something of being a generalisation and based on that reject it, is beyond retarded. Of course it's a generalisation, what else would it be?


----------



## Easley (Sep 24, 2014)

baconbits said:


> One of the things that made me wake up to the feminist movement is how they trash any woman who is successful but isn't a leftist.  You're not exactly consistent when you defend Bill Clinton's treatment of Monica Lewinsky but routinely slam Thatcher in sexist terms.


Yes. Most of the resentment towards Thatcher is because she was Conservative. Becoming Prime Minister when parliament was dominated by men was a great achievement, but the feminists despise her anyway. Here in the UK, Harriet Harman (Labour) would like to pretend that Margaret Thatcher never existed. A list she commissioned to celebrate women in politics over the previous 100 years omitted Thatcher's name.


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (Sep 24, 2014)

OodboO said:


> Yeah it's common knowledge that truly successful and actually intelligent women always resent feminism. The very women feminists point out as these special exceptions in order to prove how much more special women are compared to men, these great women who are supposedly oppressed, that feminists are fighting for, almost always hate them.
> 
> Feminists are flat out patronising them and leeching of their success. It's hateful.
> I've met a couple of those women. It's very fun to watch them engage other women in conversations. Just when you expect her to nod at all the feminist bullshit, she starts spewing venom. It's absolutely adorable. :33



You mean like emma watson?


----------



## The Faceless Man (Sep 24, 2014)

OodboO said:


> I'd beg to differ. A generalisation can be based on 80% of members of a group and still be a generalisation. Unless you have accurate data on 100% of units of a group, you're making a generalisation.
> 
> The problem here is not if the generalisation is there, or not.
> The problem is that a generalisation is seen as something bad. A generalisation is essential for anything, for language itself! We have general definitions of everything to be able to speak at all, let alone convey some deeper thoughts.
> To accuse something of being a generalisation and based on that reject it, is beyond retarded. Of course it's a generalisation, what else would it be?




I can respect you're point. 



Easley said:


> *I think true equality, not the female supremacy dream espoused by radical feminists, is what most women want.* Me too! Yes, equality, not superiority. Feminists are very loud and know how to get their message across, but they don't speak for all women. They'd rather sit in their ivory tower and preach to the rest of us. Every movement has a lunatic fringe but feminism is now synonymous with the loonies.
> 
> *You can only push people so far, in this case men*, before there's a huge backlash and feminism becomes just another failed ideology. Unfortunately, liberal feminism has its claws in the mainstream media. Journalism is a popular career choice for young women, and this allows them to control the debate. The 'women' section in the Guardian is almost nonstop feminism and sexism articles. It's awful. They don't talk about anything else! Mass brainwashing = more drones for the feminist collective.
> 
> Things need to change.



You're wrong. They say equality and think Womens > Men  
Maybe you're doing it the wrong... try something else instead of pushing men. 

The rest of the post i can agree to a degree.


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## OodboO (Sep 24, 2014)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> You mean like emma watson?



No, she's obviously an idiot. 

I'm not talking about "educated" girls, clever sounding girls (anyone with two brain cells to rub together can be thought to sound clever), I'm not talking about "abrasive" dykeswomen, I'm not talking about powerful female "bosses", or whatever crap feminist movies told you a "strong woman" is.

I'm talking about women with sharp intellects. Women who open their mouths and have something to contribute to the conversation. Women who light up your mind when you talk to them, who are inventive and who can walk circles around idiots in debates. I've only ever met 2 in my life though and yes, both were very successful. (And I don't think I'm one of them. I'm just humble enough to test my views and research.)


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## Jagger (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Its not generalizations when the majority is like that...
> 
> gen?er?al?i?za?tion
> 
> : a general statement : a statement about a group of people or things that is based on only a few people or things in that group


While I don't agree with all of Flow's posts, you're indeed making an generalization about feminists as there's no cocise or solid proof that all feminists are all nutjobs that want to eliminate any man in power, but that's because you usually find them in just one place (typically, in this case, tumblr). However, I'm sure that if you looked somewhere else, you'd find well presented arguments for said movement.


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## Easley (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> You're wrong. They say equality and think Womens > Men


The radfems think that... and even moderate feminism doesn't represent the 'majority of women'. 



> Maybe you're doing it the wrong... try something else instead of pushing men.


I'm not pushing men, feminists are...and I expect men to push back at some point. 

I don't support what is happening right now. Men and women at each other's throats... sigh.


----------



## sadated_peon (Sep 24, 2014)

> UPDATED, Sept. 24, 10:48 a.m. ET: The nude photo leak threat targeting Emma Watson earlier this week turned out to be a viral marketing stunt by a site calling itself Rantic Marketing. Rantic claims to want to shut down the website 4chan, but the "social media marketing enterprise" may itself just be a hoax.
> 
> The original website surrounding the false leaks, EmmaYouAreNext.com, threatened to release nude photographs of the 24-year-old actress and included a clock counting down to Saturday at midnight ET. The person who posted the website said it was in retaliation for Watson's well-received speech that she gave at the United Nations on Sept. 20.
> 
> However, by midnight on Wednesday, the URL redirected to Rantic Marketing's website. Watson's face and the countdown clock has been replaced with a banner that says, "#shutdown4chan" and an open letter to President Barack Obama that claims celebrity publicists hired the marketing company to popularize a call for Internet censorship and the end of 4chan.




So... yea. 
The whole 4chan is going to post nudes in retaliation for speech was a fake by a marketing agency. 

Can't say I am that surprised.


----------



## |)/-\\/\/|\| (Sep 24, 2014)

Women have more rights than men particularly when it comes to custody and the right to abort or not while the decision impact the father as well.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Sep 24, 2014)

|)/-\\/\/|\| said:


> *Women have more rights than men* particularly when it comes to custody and the right to abort or not while the decision impact the father as well.



No they don't. There's still plenty more discrepancies against women prevalent in our patriarch society.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Sep 24, 2014)

OodboO said:


> I knew you're a fucking MGTOW.
> Sorry, but that's the dumbest philosophy I have found to date.



I see nothing wrong with MGTOW. 

There's a reason why this movement has been slowly gaining support over the years. Men going their own way is looking to be a much better path to take than trying to gain and support a family. With the high likelihood of being divorced raped by shitty alimony, marriage seems to be too high of a gamble to take. 

MGTOW is the logical solution for men even moreso than MRA. And do not be surprised when you see more MGTOWs to the point where it becomes common! Just look at the herbivore men after all. When society makes it so that relationships are more of a drag than something that's good and comfortable, men will start seeing the writing on the wall and just opt out.


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## Punished Pathos (Sep 24, 2014)

OodboO said:


> I knew you're a fucking MGTOW.
> Sorry, but that's the dumbest philosophy I have found to date.



Don't label me.
I belong to no group.


----------



## |)/-\\/\/|\| (Sep 24, 2014)

MbS said:


> No they don't. There's still plenty more discrepancies against women prevalent in our patriarch society.



While they might be discriminated against by some employers these are mostly isolated instance and are nothing compared to their absolute reign over custody. I can marry a girl, she can take my kids, house and make me pay her a monthly payment while she sleeps with another guy, who will have the right to live in my house while acting as a father to my children. I can't think of anything worse than having to live with that.


----------



## Psycho (Sep 24, 2014)

|)/-\\/\/|\| said:


> While they might be discriminated against by some employers these are mostly isolated instance and are nothing compared to their absolute reign over custody. I can marry a girl, she can take my kids, house and make me pay her a monthly payment while she sleeps with another guy, who will have the right to live in my house while acting as a father to my children. I can't think of anything worse than having to live with that.



the role of the woman as a child-bearer, mother and housewife above all else is one of the main subject touched by feminism and one that they have been trying to get over for years; believe me, winning most custody battles speaks agains the standing of women in our society more than for it


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## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

That's quite an odd slant on an obvious disparity.


----------



## Deleted member 206107 (Sep 24, 2014)




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## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

Yeesh.


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## SLB (Sep 24, 2014)

>not having the faceless man on super ignore


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

Mael said:


> That's quite an odd slant on an obvious disparity.



It's ridiculous mental gymnastics to deny an obvious advantage women have in our society.


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

THIS IS SO INTIMIDATING


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

Flow and Dannii are feminists...just what the movement needs.


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

I can see Seto Kaiba narrating his own post outloud in a horrible American dub like voice while stroking his dick to his witty post on an anime forum but imagines a sweat mark on the back of his head when someone utters feminism.


----------



## Kue (Sep 24, 2014)

Flow said:


> I can see Seto Kaiba narrating his own post outloud in a horrible American dub like voice while stroking his dick to his witty post on an anime forum but imagines a sweat mark on the back of his head when someone utters feminism.



Can you just stop already? You're going to add wrinkles to my face by how much you make me cringe.


----------



## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

Kue said:


> Can you just stop already? You're going to add wrinkles to my face by how much you make me cringe.



You know Flow...


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

Flow said:


> I can see Seto Kaiba narrating his own post outloud in a horrible American dub like voice while stroking his dick to his witty post on an anime forum but imagines a sweat mark on the back of his head when someone utters feminism.



It really says enough that you continue to rely on these types of accusations. Feminism is already plagued by a series of irrational, slackjawed individuals that couldn't hold up in a debate if their lives depended on it. I see no reason why they need even just one more like that added to their ranks.


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

Come on Mael, it's rich you calling people obsessed when you were begging like a dog for pictures of me naked when I was 'drunk', then stalked a bunch of women online and paid other strangers online to draw pictures of them naked for you to jerk off to.



Freedan said:


> This is rich.
> 
> Mael, why did you ignore Flow's comments? You literally admitted to me and that you have problems with women such that you "need to get professional help" after you went and flirted with a dupe that was supposedly underage. I have to ask you the same question, why are you so intimidated by feminism?
> 
> You know, I get the impression that you're intimidated because you actually know that you're the kind of guy these extremist feminists always talk about, and your track record kinda speaks for itself either way. It's quite silly that you, a man that has to get "professional help with his problems with harassing women online" is getting so intimidated by feminism. Lately, you've been really active in this thread and the Emma Watson one, not to mention that whenever the subject comes up in the caf?, you're usually within the first two pages of such a thread. It's not easy to think it's just a coincidence.



Still waiting for an actual response to this besides "Come on guys, I just goofed!"




> It really says enough that you continue to rely on these types of accusations. Feminism is already plagued by a series of irrational, slackjawed individuals that couldn't hold up in a debate if their lives depended on it. I see no reason why they need even just one more like that added to their ranks.



Ok SK.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

Holy shit and he's doing it again. 

This guy is literally a one-trick pony. He's too stupid to be original, that's the impression I'm getting.


----------



## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

OK SK


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## SLB (Sep 24, 2014)

flow, this is getting out of hand.


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## Mider T (Sep 24, 2014)

Espionage let it go before you take another L.


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## Deleted member 234422 (Sep 24, 2014)

Moody said:


> flow, this is getting out of hand.



It's the only thing he's got left.


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

If people actually think that I wouldn't go into a thread and laugh at the fact that a guy that flirted with an underage user and harassed a bunch of people is talking out of his ass, then whatevz. 

Call me a "one-hit wonder" or one-trick pony (since apparently, I'm being rated and paid to post on this forum) to defend your friend, I'll speak about it when I so choose.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

That's pathetic deflection. No one defended Mael's actions here, but we are talking about yours, get over that stupid conspiracy. It goes back to my point about that slackjawed thinking of yours, you keep going back to the same old accusations that you have nothing to show for. Even moreso, you are fucking obsessed.


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## Mider T (Sep 24, 2014)

@Espionage: People don't give a shit about that anymore, they're laughing at you because you're comically obsessed like a Saturday morning cartoon antagonist.


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## SLB (Sep 24, 2014)

but you've made your point. it's been addressed. 

let it die.


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## Jagger (Sep 24, 2014)

Flow said:


> I can see Seto Kaiba narrating his own post outloud in a horrible American dub like voice while stroking his dick to his witty post on an anime forum but imagines a sweat mark on the back of his head when someone utters feminism.


What                  .


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

Yeah, I'm obsessed with laughing at the fact that he flirts with little girls online and is hating on other people on the internet.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

Jagger said:


> What                  .



I'm sure he thinks about things like that a lot.


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## babaGAReeb (Sep 24, 2014)

i think flow is secretly gay for mael

would explain the obsession


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## Kue (Sep 24, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Even moreso, you are fucking obsessed.



Where is Laix, we need him to post a Mariah Carey gif.


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

Mider T said:


> @Espionage: The people that like Mael and don't like thinking about it don't like being reminded constantly about that stuff anymore, stop bringing it up



Let's be truthful now. 

More than half the people in this thread don't even know what's being discussed, please.


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## Mider T (Sep 24, 2014)

And you're still beating the dead horse.  Congrats, you've successfully convinced everyone else that Mael isn't a big a problem as you who'll take every thread off track because of his obsession with him.


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## Deleted member 206107 (Sep 24, 2014)

Flow said:


> Yeah, I'm obsessed with laughing at the fact that he flirts with little girls online and is hating on other people on the internet.



Mael or Seto?


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

Yeah ok Mider T. 

No one cares..

Yeah, more like no one really knows that Mael is a creep that flirted with an underage dupe and harassed a bunch of women online while giving his opinion about feminism.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

AreYouOkDannii said:


> Mael or Seto?



You are so slow...


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## Mider T (Sep 24, 2014)

Flow said:


> Let's be truthful now.
> 
> More than half the people in this thread don't even know what's being discussed, please.



Altering my posts shows weakness, of your character and your argument.  But if you're going to do it, you should at least make sure it isn't on the same page you.

But you're an idiot so...


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## Mael (Sep 24, 2014)

babaGAReeb said:


> i think flow is secretly gay for mael
> 
> would explain the obsession


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

AreYouOkDannii said:


> Mael or Seto?



Mael flirted with an underage dupe and harassed a bunch of women online and continues to give his opinion about feminism.

People told me to leave it alone, and I responded to one of your post later on. Seto Kaiba responded to my post and decided to leave a witty remark, and Mael followed suit so now we are all back full circle.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 24, 2014)

Flow said:


> Yeah ok Mider T.
> 
> No one cares..
> 
> Yeah, more like no one really knows that Mael is a creep that flirted with an underage dupe and harassed a bunch of women online while giving his opinion about feminism.



Everyone knows. Yet everyone also knows you were on the other side of that screen for SIX MONTHS; what Mael did since you are too stupid to remember when I tell you, was indefensible, what you did was creepy.

This is only highlighted by the fact that even after two or three years, you still obsess over it!


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## Deleted member 234422 (Sep 24, 2014)

Flow said:


> Yeah ok Mider T.
> 
> No one cares..
> 
> Yeah, more like no one really knows that Mael is a creep that flirted with an underage dupe and harassed a bunch of women online while giving his opinion about feminism.



Is this what you keep telling yourself? The denial... I've yet to see anyone say that it wasn't creepy as fuck on his part. Where? Who? Could you link something... anything with this repeating accusation of yours?


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## EJ (Sep 24, 2014)

I expect Seto Kaiba to do more damage control for Mael, Mael to continue to lurk in the shadows because he's too afraid to confront me while later adopting some of the "witty insults being thrown around", one or two more people to comment without knowing what's really going on, etc. 

The main people saying "STOP BRINGING UP THAT MAEL HARASSED WOMEN AND FLIRTED WITH A LITTLE GIRL" are his friends. Go figure.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 24, 2014)

Never a dull moment when Flow attempts to save face.


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## Kue (Sep 24, 2014)

Is the word of the day "witty" Flow?


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Flow said:


> I expect Seto Kaiba to do more damage control for Mael, Mael to continue to lurk in the shadows because he's too afraid to confront me while later adopting some of the "witty insults being thrown around", one or two more people to comment without knowing what's really going on, etc.
> 
> The main people saying "STOP BRINGING UP THAT MAEL HARASSED WOMEN AND FLIRTED WITH A LITTLE GIRL" are his friends. Go figure.



Again. It's almost as if you are too stupid to do anything but go back to those refuted accusations. You can't make an argument so all you have are accusations that you can't back up.

No one defended Mael at all, but people are also seeing what you did was incredibly creepy. This only being compounded by your continuous obsession.


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## EJ (Sep 25, 2014)

Moe said:


> Is this what you keep telling yourself? The denial... I've yet to see anyone say that it wasn't creepy as fuck on his part. Where? Who? Could you link something... anything with this repeating accusation of yours?



You guys aren't defending his actions, you select few are defending him in the sense of "DONT BRING UP WHAT HE DID ANYMORE", like I'm actually going to heed to what his 'loyal' friends are saying.


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## SLB (Sep 25, 2014)

flabbergasted


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## EJ (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Again. It's almost as if you are too stupid to do anything but go back to those refuted accusations. You can't make an argument so all you have are accusations that you can't back up.
> 
> No one defended Mael at all, but people are also seeing what you did was incredibly creepy. This only being compounded by your continuous obsession.



Respond to my above post, stop doing damage control so much.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Flow said:


> You guys aren't defending his actions, you select few are defending him in the sense of "DONT BRING UP WHAT HE DID ANYMORE", like I'm actually going to heed to what his 'loyal' friends are saying.



Ah, another 'tactic' of Flow. Your first claim falls apart, so just shift around and act like you never made it at all! No, you were acting like we didn't acknowledge what he did was fucked up by zeroing in on your part of the matter. 

The fact that you still bring it up after 2-3 years is what makes it clear to everyone just how deranged you've become over it. Yet you try to characterize this as a defense for Mael. It always comes back to Mael with you! It says EVERYTHING on where your head is at.



Moody said:


> flabbergasted



The guy has it bad for Mael, that much is already clear.


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## Jagger (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm amazed at the fact Flow somehow redirected this conversation from feminism to Mael's actions.


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## Deleted member 234422 (Sep 25, 2014)

Flow said:


> You guys aren't defending his actions, you select few are defending him in the sense of "DONT BRING UP WHAT HE DID ANYMORE", like I'm actually going to heed to what his 'loyal' friends are saying.



No, the issue is that Mael's fuckup has literally become your strongest counter argument against everything he does and/or says. You don't actually refute or counter anything he says; you don't even try. All you do, and I REALLY mean all you do, is bring it back up over and over again. I think even my dead granny has heard about what Mael did.

Mael: blah blah blah what they are doing is wrong irrespective of blak blah

Obsessive Talia: I don't want to hear what is right or wrong form someone who tried to get it on with a 15 year old.

Mael: fuck you Canada

Obsessive Talia: just like you tried to fuck Talia. Your opinion is worthless. Talia 2-0

You ain't even trying anymore. Go write a fucking fanfic or something.


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## EJ (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Ah, another 'tactic' of Flow. Your first claim falls apart,



My first claim being "Mael's friends are defending the fact he flirted with an underage girl and don't like it being brought up"

Of course you wouldn't want me to bring it up all the time Seto Kaiba, you're his friend. You're all for talking about your drama with other users across this forum that has drama with you, but when I cotinuously laugh at the fact that Mael has mental problems involving women and will beg like a dog for naked pictures of someone when they are drunk while giving his opinion about feminism, this irks you. 

I don't care if you want to call it obsession, the situation is funny to me as well as being ironic. You tried numerous tactics to "deter" me from calling him out on this stuff such as calling me a "one-trick pony" as if that this forum measures my real life capabilities. 

Get more of your little social gathering to do damage control for Mael. 




> The fact that you still bring it up after 2-3 years



HASN'T EVEN BEEN A YEAR SUCKA


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## Jagger (Sep 25, 2014)

>Implying he can write.

Well, Twilight sold millions, so...


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Moe said:


> No, the issue is that Mael's fuckup has literally become your strongest counter argument against everything he does and/or says. You don't actually refute or counter anything he says; you don't even try. All you do, and I REALLY mean all you do, is bring it back up over and over again. I think even my dead granny has heard about what Mael did.
> 
> Mael: blah blah blah what they are doing is wrong irrespective of blak blah
> 
> ...



It's even more hilarious when you consider he tries to pull similar shit with other people. Except in those cases, he's just pulling them straight from his ass.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Flow said:


> Of course you wouldn't want me to bring it up all the time Seto Kaiba, you're his friend. You're all for talking about your drama with other users across this forum that has drama with you, but when I cotinuously laugh at the fact that Mael has mental problems involving women and will beg like a dog for naked pictures of someone when they are drunk while giving his opinion about feminism, this irks you.
> 
> I don't care if you want to call it obsession, the situation is funny to me as well as being ironic. You tried numerous tactics to "deter" me from calling him out on this stuff such as calling me a "one-trick pony" as if that this forum measures my real life capabilities.
> 
> Get more of your little social gathering to do damage control for Mael.



Case in point.


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## Mider T (Sep 25, 2014)

I've never seen him actually give a good debate.  He attacks the opponent literally every single time without addressing the point.


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## Deleted member 206107 (Sep 25, 2014)

Mider T said:


> I've never seen him actually give a good debate.  He attacks the opponent literally every single time without addressing the point.



Seto does that too


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 25, 2014)

Flow, you really should stop while you have a shred of dignity left. 

But unfortunately, that shred is hanging on by a thread.

I mean, this was funny the first few pages, but now it's just sad.


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## Kue (Sep 25, 2014)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> Flow, you really should stop while you have a shred of dignity left.
> 
> But unfortunately, that shred is hanging on by a thread.



He had dignity?


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## SLB (Sep 25, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> The guy has it bad for Mael, that much is already clear.



I guess.. Yeah.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

AreYouOkDannii said:


> Seto does that too



My irony meter is going off. The one person who is probably even less capable of debate, no less, rational thought than Flow, is going to say that?


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## Chelydra (Sep 25, 2014)

Wow so someone is discounting someone else opinion because they said joking or not that they would tap a presumably hot forum member? Lame. I think _any_ dude will tap a woman if she is attractive enough regardless of age...


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## Jagger (Sep 25, 2014)

Flow, the problem is the fact that, once you start losing an argument, it always ends with you calling Mael out of his past actions.

Which is something that makes you look bad in the eyes of pretty much every poster that they've seen you debating. I'm not defending Mael or anything, but I'm just stating facts.



AreYouOkDannii said:


> Seto does that too


>Someone says something about her obsession with Sakura.
>"DEAL WITH IT, HATERS GONNA HATE, LUUUUUUUUUUUUULZ".


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## EJ (Sep 25, 2014)

Mael diddles little kids.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 25, 2014)

Kue said:


> He had dignity?



Everybody has dignity.

Somewhere.

At some point.

It's like the more successful brother of shame.

And you're going to want dignity over shame.


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## Mael (Sep 25, 2014)

I admitted my wrongdoing yet you prance around like this was your Medal of Honor like a total tool.  

Oh and that commission story?  Here it is:


Didn't know armor plating meant nudity you dense ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).

Maybe you're right to ally with Dannii as feminists.  You seem to follow the same silly stance Beyonc? does.


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## Chelydra (Sep 25, 2014)

I should also point out that there is a huge difference between saying you want to tap someone and actually doing it, a line that is often over looked by more zealous people.


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## EJ (Sep 25, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> Wow so someone is discounting someone else opinion because they said joking or not that they would tap a presumably hot forum member? Lame. I think _any_ dude will tap a woman if she is attractive enough regardless of age...



No, someone is discounting someone else's opinion on "their opinion of woman empowerment" after they carried on a relationship user with a made up underage person and harassing multiple women online because he admittedly has "mental problems dealing with women". 



Jagger said:


> Which is something that makes you look bad in the eyes of pretty much every poster that they've seen you debating. I'm not defending Mael or anything, but I'm just stating facts.



Mael posted flame-bait and I responded to it, his friends came up and backed him when they saw my post.


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## Deleted member 206107 (Sep 25, 2014)

Jagger said:


> >Someone says something about her obsession with Sakura.
> >"DEAL WITH IT, HATERS GONNA HATE, LUUUUUUUUUUUUULZ".


At least I'm not an emotional bully.


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## Chelydra (Sep 25, 2014)

> No, someone is discounting someone else's opinion on "their opinion of woman empowerment" after they carried on a relationship user with a made up underage person and harassing multiple women online because he admittedly has "mental problems dealing with women".



I don't buy it. Considering your posting history.


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## Jagger (Sep 25, 2014)

AreYouOkDannii said:


> At least I'm not an emotional bully.


Are you ok, Dannii?


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## Kue (Sep 25, 2014)

Chelydra said:


> I should also point out that there is a huge difference between saying you want to tap someone and actually doing it, a line that is often over looked by more zealous people.



Now now, we know very well now after Flow's posts that showing interest is rape in all circumstances.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 25, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Flow, the problem is the fact that, once you start losing an argument, it always ends with you calling Mael out of his past actions.
> 
> Which is something that makes you look bad in the eyes of pretty much every poster that they've seen you debating. I'm not defending Mael or anything, but I'm just stating facts.



He doesn't even do it with just Mael though, the only difference is he actually has something to recall with him. With everyone else it's a "WELL I BET "X" DOES OR IS THIS AND THAT..."



> >Someone says something about her obsession with Sakura.
> >"DEAL WITH IT, HATERS GONNA HATE, LUUUUUUUUUUUUULZ".



Really, she has NO capacity for debate or any kind of actual thinking, which makes me wonder what is she doing here? These topics are beyond her scope.


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## EJ (Sep 25, 2014)

Mael said:


> I admitted my wrongdoing yet you prance around like this was your Medal of Honor like a total tool.



You admitted your "wrongdoings" by lying your ass off to the mods about what you did in order to "not get in trouble with the feds"  when you were freaking your ass off over this shit.  

Oh my god, I literally busted out laughing reading this

You don't "admit" to anything, all you say is "I messed up" and hope one of these loyal friends of yours defends you and helps you look like some totally defenseless innocent victim. 

Yeah, the nudefanart you begged for someone to create for you so you can jerk off to it, and had the audacity to try and "apologize" with.


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## SLB (Sep 25, 2014)

this is so sad


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## Chelydra (Sep 25, 2014)

What the hell is wrong with naked fanart? Holy shit, talk about grasping at straws.


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## Jagger (Sep 25, 2014)

I wonder if Mega looks at these kind of threads thinking "Should I close this thread...Nah, who am I kidding, I need popcorn".


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## Mael (Sep 25, 2014)

I just showed you the fanart, nimrod.

Your claim is shot.

But keep on being Calvin Klein with that obsession.

Actually the rest of them are right.  I'm going to stop now and watch you implode.


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## Deleted member 234422 (Sep 25, 2014)

Flow said:


> Because I don't need a counter-argument or some "direct" argument against what he's saying.



Then why are you posting here? Why are you even replying to what he posts here? This is the Cafe, and you just posted in one of its discussion threads: for why reason? Just to spite Mael? If it is, holy hell, you've got SERIOUS issues that you need to work on. At least mael admitted he was at fault and has issues to work on.




> You all couldn't care less about "What kind of arguments can Flow dish out against Mael", don't try to play this game.



Is it just easier for you to paint everyone as Mael's friend? It doesn't make your obsessive campaign any more legit as any objective viewpoint would make the same point.



> You hate the fact that I constantly bring it up especially in threads dealing with topics about women since the situation is even more funnier.



Funny... for YOU. The only people that have prolly found that exchange funny were prolly the same people that despise mael. There is nothing funny about it - it was sad as fuck, on both ends. You keep bringing it up and laughing by yourself, and in many ways, its becoming as sad as the effort you graciously volunteered for the sake of your crusade.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Sep 25, 2014)

Jagger said:


> I wonder if Mega looks at these kind of threads thinking "Should I close this thread...*Nah, who am I kidding, I need popcorn*".



Screw 'im, this is _my_ popcorn!


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## Chelydra (Sep 25, 2014)

It depends on how "long" this whole thing goes for, if people get back on topic in a moderately short manner I don't think he will do anything.


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## EJ (Sep 25, 2014)

Mael said:


> I just showed you the fanart, nimrod.
> 
> Your claim is shot.
> 
> But keep on being Calvin Klein with that obsession.



I like how out of everything I've said, your main defense is "Well, the fanart wasn't nude!" But I sort of know this is a lie.

Respond to the rest of the stuff I said please.


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## Megaharrison (Sep 25, 2014)

Jagger said:


> I wonder if Mega looks at these kind of threads thinking "Should I close this thread...Nah, who am I kidding, I need popcorn".



i Was asleep when shit went down 

That being said this thread is lulz.


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