# 15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It



## Stalin (Jan 12, 2012)

> NAPLES ? A 15-year-old who fatally stabbed his school mate will no longer face criminal prosecution.
> 
> A judge?s ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida?s ?Stand Your Ground? law. The State Attorney?s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling.
> 
> ...


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## hammer (Jan 12, 2012)

lul bullies


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## Ennoea (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm okay with the kid defending himself but stabbing him 12 times sounds like murder to me.


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## hammer (Jan 12, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> I'm okay with the kid defending himself but stabbing him 12 times sounds like murder to me.



12 stabs might jsut be him raging, besides a  punch to the back of the head can kill.


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## Saufsoldat (Jan 12, 2012)

Yep, looks like self-defense to me. The 12 times stabbing can easily be explained by fear.


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## Bart (Jan 12, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> I'm okay with the kid defending himself but stabbing him 12 times sounds like murder to me.





Saufsoldat said:


> Yep, looks like self-defense to me. The 12 times stabbing can easily be explained by fear.



Overkill might be the word there :3

Saufsoldat, it can be explained by fear? Hmm .... :WOW


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## hammer (Jan 12, 2012)

there is no such thing as overkill, only under.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 12, 2012)

Part of the reason lethal force in self-defense is allowed is because, what if he only stabbed him once? Just hurting him enough to "back off"? There is more than a good chance vengeance could be sought out by the bully and he would be the one making the news for killing his victim.


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## DisgustingIdiot (Jan 12, 2012)

It's always nice when the legal system gets things right.



> “Brodie’s decision is not setting a good example for children or adults,” said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno’s mother. “I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another innocent family.”



I want to be sympathetic because she has of course lost a son, but it needs to be said that the tragedy was mainly her son's fault with some left over for the people helping him.


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## Saufsoldat (Jan 12, 2012)

Bart said:


> Overkill might be the word there :3
> 
> Saufsoldat, it can be explained by fear? Hmm .... :WOW



Once they've accepted the self-defense thing, all that remains is proving you didn't use excessive force, which is pretty easy in jury-based courts. Start crying, say you didn't mean to kill him, case closed.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 12, 2012)

Saufsoldat said:


> Once they've accepted the self-defense thing, all that remains is proving you didn't use excessive force, which is pretty easy in jury-based courts. Start crying, say you didn't mean to kill him, case closed.



Not sure if youre referring to this particular instance, because if so, the jury had no impact on this case, as the judge threw out the charges.

Even the prosecution was like "lol welp", no appeal basically means you never had a case to begin with


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## hammer (Jan 12, 2012)

lul that mother dun goofed up her kid


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## superattackpea (Jan 12, 2012)

I support this decision. 

The kid dealt with a problem in a rational manner, it was very mature of him. I think we have far too much of an emphasis on running away and letting others handle your problems in this country.


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## Bioness (Jan 12, 2012)

Good for him, I just hope he will have any trauma later in life for making the world better.


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## hammer (Jan 12, 2012)

im going to assume you meant will not


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## siyrean (Jan 12, 2012)

I have no issue with this. It's not like the kid was unconscious on the ground and the kid decided to turn him over and slit his throat.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 12, 2012)

Bullies need to realize that the people they are bullying are being REALLY REALLY NICE.


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## hammer (Jan 12, 2012)

one kid bullied me I builled his fist with a saw in shop class


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## Ennoea (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm liking the lack of tolerance of Bullies. I admit I have to give it to him for fighting back with brutal force, rather than killing yourself, kill the bully.


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## Brotha Yasuji (Jan 12, 2012)




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## Gunners (Jan 12, 2012)

I read about this a while back and thinking 'clear case of self defense', nothing has changed. When you punch someone in the back the head you can easily kill them or do serious injury as they are unprepared for the attack they have minimal control over how they fall to the ground. 

If the kid was left unchecked we'd be reading about him committing manslaughter in a few years time.


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## Mikaveli (Jan 12, 2012)

Too bad he died, but you reap what you sow.


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## Bioness (Jan 12, 2012)

hammer said:


> im going to assume you meant will not



Yeah what did I say


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## Negative (Jan 12, 2012)

And nothing in value was lost.

lul bullies.


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2012)

Florida needs to rename the law to current internet meme, "Stand Your Ground Like a Boss.”



Negative said:


> And nothing in value was lost.
> 
> lul bullies.



Except a mother's child. I think that was important to her. Of course, I'm going out on a limb here


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## Buskuv (Jan 12, 2012)

Gotta love that media sensationalism.

Doesn't really matter the technical definition of stabbing, 'stabbed 11 times' has this nice image of him stabbing the bully, on the ground, 11 times in the chest like some sort of insane murderer.  Two hits were fatal; how much you wanna bet most of those were nicks caused when the kid brought out the knife and started flailing wildly?  

It wasn't the kind of bullying where it was some silly name calling.  The kid was literally scared enough to carry a knife with him; he had to avoid the bus as often as he could (sometimes skipping school to avoid the bully), because he would get harassed and followed beat the fuck up.  The kid got off _two fucking stops earlier to avoid the fuckwipe_, and then the bully grabbed his cronies and followed him. He then punches the kid in the back of the head, _and he still tries to get away_. He didn't deserve to die but my empathy is nonexistant.  I feel bad for his family, but this fucker had it coming.

I have to love all these well-off suburbian parents who can't imagine their child being a bully.  Even after dozens of students said this was so common it happened almost daily.


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## Knight (Jan 12, 2012)

Check the youtube vids comments for Dylan nuno, they are quite a delightful read.


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## Hothien (Jan 12, 2012)

Clear case of self-defense.

Don't want someone to retaliate against your bullying? Don't fucking bully.

Kid had a reasonable fear for his life, and stabbing the bully that many times can easily be explained by fear of immediate retaliation if he stopped. Not to mention, it's not like all of the stabs were necessarily with the bully on the ground, he was probably stabbing in counterattacks to the fucking bully.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jan 12, 2012)

Bullies deserve to die.


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## vegitabo (Jan 12, 2012)

lol, this was not a clear case of self-defense, it was a clear case of florida judiciary system. How can u stab someone 11 times if the person wasn't mentally unstable or has a malicious content. Usually after the first two stab, people usually realize what have happened and would have stopped. If this kid at age 15 couldn't do this, couldn't rationalize that stabbing a person might kill them, i don't see much in his future.


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## Gextiv (Jan 12, 2012)

He got punched to the back of his head.. real nice play to target.
Brain damage.. maybe even death?

Blatantly self defense.


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## Hothien (Jan 12, 2012)

vegitabo said:


> lol, this was not a clear case of self-defense, it was a clear case of florida judiciary system. How can u stab someone 11 times if the person wasn't mentally unstable or has a malicious content. Usually after the first two stab, people usually realize what have happened and would have stopped. If this kid at age 15 couldn't do this, couldn't rationalize that stabbing a person might kill them, i don't see much in his future.



The "11 times" is blatantly misleading. You act like he had the bully pinned down and stabbed him 11 times consecutively. Ever heard of a fight?


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2012)

vegitabo said:


> lol, this was not a clear case of self-defense, it was a clear case of florida judiciary system. How can u stab someone 11 times if the person wasn't mentally unstable or has a malicious content. Usually after the first two stab, people usually realize what have happened and would have stopped. If this kid at age 15 couldn't do this, couldn't rationalize that stabbing a person might kill them, i don't see much in his future.



Casey Anthony says hi.


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## KidTony (Jan 12, 2012)

self defence


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## Mael (Jan 12, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Gotta love that media sensationalism.
> 
> Doesn't really matter the technical definition of stabbing, 'stabbed 11 times' has this nice image of him stabbing the bully, on the ground, 11 times in the chest like some sort of insane murderer.  Two hits were fatal; how much you wanna bet most of those were nicks caused when the kid brought out the knife and started flailing wildly?
> 
> ...



The mom of the dead kid has her right to grieve but she should have tried to understand het son was not exactly innocent.  Alas, kids are speshul snowflaeks now and are pampered by parents who want to be friends instead of parents.  Kids are animals as are teenagers.  Sucks to see this happen but this is the price paid when policy is heinously insufficient.


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## KidTony (Jan 12, 2012)

vegitabo said:


> lol, this was not a clear case of self-defense, it was a clear case of florida judiciary system. How can u stab someone 11 times if the person wasn't mentally unstable or has a malicious content. Usually after the first two stab, people usually realize what have happened and would have stopped. If this kid at age 15 couldn't do this, couldn't rationalize that stabbing a person might kill them, i don't see much in his future.



If you are trying to seriously hurt me and i have a weapon, you have just forfitted your life.


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## Altron (Jan 12, 2012)

Carrying switchblades and knives are legal under Florida's state laws. So the kid wasn't breaking any rules when he had the knife in his possession. As others have stated the bully got what he deserved.


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## Saufsoldat (Jan 12, 2012)

vegitabo said:


> lol, this was not a clear case of self-defense, it was a clear case of florida judiciary system. How can u stab someone 11 times if the person wasn't mentally unstable or has a malicious content. Usually after the first two stab, people usually realize what have happened and would have stopped. If this kid at age 15 couldn't do this, couldn't rationalize that stabbing a person might kill them, i don't see much in his future.



I see you have a lot of experience stabbing people.

It was a bloody pocket knife, you can stab people more than once per second with those things. If he did indeed fear for his life, stabbing a few more times than is "necessary" is easily explainable.

It's too bad that the other kid died, but the killer acted in self-defense, simple as that.


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## Bear Walken (Jan 12, 2012)

Avoiding bus rides, getting off earlier stops and still the bully wouldn't let up. Self-defense. The kid chose to stand up for himself rather than suicide which is what most victims tend to do.


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## Brotha Yasuji (Jan 12, 2012)

Bear Walken said:


> Avoiding bus rides, getting off earlier stops and still the bully wouldn't let up. Self-defense. The kid chose to stand up for himself rather than suicide which is what most victims tend to do.



Indeed.

Let's face facts, had he not done this he probably would have become just another statistic of bullying, be it by his own hand or the bullys. The bully would have gotten a light prison sentence for manslaughter where, instead of being rehabilitated, he would have probably come out a harder criminal (Like most people who do) and would have just rinsed and repeated till next time when he gets life.

I see so many people here desperately trying to play the moral high ground or trying to shift blame from the bully to the bullied. I dare any of you to honestly say if it were a case like this, and you truly felt your life was in danger, you wouldn't have done the same. I'm not trying to pass myself as a badass or anything, but if I'm in a scenario where for what ever reason it's my life or his, I'm clearly going to choose mine. I don't see why he should be borderline demonized for doing the same.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 12, 2012)

Am I the only one confused by this story?

That Nuno kid has a different last name than his own mother. There appear to be two different Adrianas. Also, how did Nuno follow the other kid off the bus if the kid got off two stops earlier than the location where Nuno was supposedly waiting to kick his ass?

Just seems like there are some inconsistencies, or at least some details that weren't explained properly.

In any case, sounds like an open-shut case of self-defense. Older kid trying to pick a fight with a younger kid, younger kid is armed, older kid gets own ass handed to him fatally.


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## Saufsoldat (Jan 12, 2012)

Nikushimi said:


> Am I the only one confused by this story?
> 
> That Nuno kid has a different last name than his own mother. There appear to be two different Adrianas. Also, how did Nuno follow the other kid off the bus if the kid got off two stops earlier than the location where Nuno was supposedly waiting to kick his ass?
> 
> ...



The bully was probably on the same bus and also got out two stations earlier when he saw other kid trying to bail.


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## Untitled (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm all for standing up for yourself, but .


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## DisgustingIdiot (Jan 12, 2012)

Untitled said:


> I'm all for standing up for yourself, but .



...

But what?


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## Skywalker (Jan 12, 2012)

Good for him, the bully had it coming. No one is going to mess with that kid now, at least.


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## Untitled (Jan 12, 2012)

Rob said:


> ...
> 
> But what?


But "", I thought that part was obvious.


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## Louis-954 (Jan 12, 2012)

> lol, this was not a clear case of self-defense, it was a clear case of florida judiciary system. How can u stab someone 11 times if the person wasn't mentally unstable or has a malicious content. Usually after the first two stab, people usually realize what have happened and would have stopped. If this kid at age 15 couldn't do this, couldn't rationalize that stabbing a person might kill them, i don't see much in his future.


Yeah, I'd totally stab someone and then just "stop" -_-. The reason you don't stop is because you don't want the bully to retaliate. He had every right to use lethal force after doing everything in his power to resolve his issues with kid peacefully and by outright avoiding him, Dylan forced his hand and left him with no other alternative. If I'm acting in self defense I'm not stopping until the friend stops moving.


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## lazer (Jan 12, 2012)

I think one non-fatal stab would've been acceptable but 11! that's just over doing it.


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## vegitabo (Jan 12, 2012)

KidTony said:


> If you are trying to seriously hurt me and i have a weapon, you have just forfitted your life.



And if u weren't in florida, u will be going to jail. And it was a bully, it wasn't a gang member out for blood... and really, u think it's that easy taking a person's life? lmao


Saufsoldat said:


> I see you have a lot of experience stabbing people.
> 
> It was a bloody pocket knife, you can stab people more than once per second with those things. If he did indeed fear for his life, stabbing a few more times than is "necessary" is easily explainable.
> 
> It's too bad that the other kid died, but the killer acted in self-defense, simple as that.



I see u apparently also have a lot of experience stabbing people. 11 times is just a couple more time that "necessary"...


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## Judas (Jan 12, 2012)

Ouch. **


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## David (Jan 12, 2012)

lazer said:


> I think one non-fatal stab would've been acceptable but 11! that's just over doing it.



If he stopped after one non-fatal stab, I highly doubt he would escape unscathed.  Quite the contrary.


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## Louis-954 (Jan 12, 2012)

> I think one non-fatal stab would've been acceptable but 11! that's just over doing it.


"I know you're chasing and attacking me Dylan but hold still for second so I can give you a minor fleshwound to your arm."

Honestly.... Do you people even think before you spout this kind of crap? He was outnumbered and under attack from a kid who's older and stronger than him.


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## eHav (Jan 12, 2012)

lazer said:


> I think one non-fatal stab would've been acceptable but 11! that's just over doing it.



and after that one non fatal stab the guy would stop because? he would probably try and get the knife from him and stab him himself.


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## EJ (Jan 12, 2012)

It's always possible the kid stabbed him 12 times out of rage.


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## eHav (Jan 12, 2012)

Flow said:


> It's always possible the kid stabbed him 12 times out of rage.



its also possible it was all a plan of his, letting himself get bullied, untill someday it would seem ok to just kill this guy he always hated and make it pass as self defence.


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## HolyHands (Jan 12, 2012)

Stabbing 11 times really isn't that much if you're dealing with a small pocket knife. Take a small pocket knife right now and make some stabbing motions in the air. You can easily break 11 stabs in 2-3 seconds while in a completely calm state. Now imagine doing the same when you're hyped up on adrenaline.

And it's also dumb to say he should just stab once and back off. In any self-defense situation, you use as much force as necessary to get the person down, because any less leaves the possibility that THEIR "fight or flight" response goes into overdrive and they retaliate against you.

Overall, the bully made too many dumb mistakes by chasing the kid even after he tried to run away. As others have mentioned, if the victim had never defended himself, he would have probably ended up as another suicide statistic while people continue to ignore the dangers of bullying. It's actually kinda sad that this story makes headline news, but the countless cases of bullies driving their victims into depression/suicide don't even raise an eyebrow. We coddle assholes way too much in this country.


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## Owl (Jan 12, 2012)

12 times? That's so much rage.


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## makeoutparadise (Jan 12, 2012)

and then he ran into my knife He ran into my knife ten times


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## Mael (Jan 12, 2012)

Owl Triangle said:


> 12 times? That's so much rage.



Justifiable rage.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I'm having real trouble feeling sorry for the bully, even his family. Bullies shouldn't be bullies, or else your prey might just bite back like this kid did.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 12, 2012)

it's said that bullies will respect you more if you fight back.


wonder how much that bully will respect this kid in death. 

yes, that's a bit of humor.

being a victim of bullying myself when i was younger who isnt? - although not to the extent of fearing for my life - i applaud this kid for striking back.


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## Onomatopoeia (Jan 12, 2012)

Did the kid make any attempt to appeal to an authority figure before this incident?(not that I think that'd work, it certainly doesn't here in Texas, but...)

Stabbing the guy 12 times is excessive, but the kid was scared or what have you. Understandable if not laudable.


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## stream (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree he was right not to stop. Once he got the knife out and started stabbing, he HAD to make sure the other guy was down and could not retaliate. Just stabbing him once would only have meant the other guy would have killed him with his own knife.


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## lazer (Jan 12, 2012)

David said:


> If he stopped after one non-fatal stab, I highly doubt he would escape unscathed.  Quite the contrary.





Louis-954 said:


> "I know you're chasing and attacking me Dylan but hold still for second so I can give you a minor fleshwound to your arm."
> 
> Honestly.... Do you people even think before you spout this kind of crap? He was outnumbered and under attack from a kid who's older and stronger than him.



You misunderstood, a stab doesn't need to be fatal but _effective_, meaning you don't have to stab a person 12 times in the chest and abdomen to be effective but instead cause them enough pain which would give you the opportunity to escape and avoid murder lol why is this so hard to get? this is obvious. For example, if that was me, i would've given him a non-fatal testicle stab which would immobilize him long enough to let me escape.

Younger people tend to act more rashily, so i would'nt expect a 15 year old to act accordingly and use sound judgement and precision over hatred and anger in this kind of situation. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon that they themselves don't even know how to use effectively. 

People really need to think instead of following their impulses


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## GodOfAzure (Jan 12, 2012)

Kid should have been expelled from school for carrying a weapon.



Yami Munesanzun said:


> being a victim of bullying myself when i was younger who isnt? -



On average; 70% of people aren't.


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2012)

stream said:


> I agree he was right not to stop. Once he got the knife out and started stabbing, he HAD to make sure the other guy was down and could not retaliate. Just stabbing him once would only have meant the other guy would have killed him with his own knife.



Stream supports child murder.


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## Mintaka (Jan 12, 2012)

HolyHands said:


> Stabbing 11 times really isn't that much if you're dealing with a small pocket knife. Take a small pocket knife right now and make some stabbing motions in the air. You can easily break 11 stabs in 2-3 seconds while in a completely calm state. Now imagine doing the same when you're hyped up on adrenaline.


Just did this myself.

Took less than three seconds.

Some of you are being to idealistic here.  Only stabbing him once?

He'd previously been punched in the back of the head so adrenaline and pain enter the issue.  Also he'd been beaten up before by this kid and tormented, was going out of his way to avoid him and school, was paranoid enough to carry a knife, and then to top it all off he see's the guy and tries avoiding him only to be followed.  Needless to say fear would not be the only thing being felt at this moment, paranoia and panic would definitely enter the equation.

He was basically driven into a corner here.  Faced with no option of fleeing, the fight or flight ((I shall refer to this as FOF from now on in this post because I am lazy)) response kicks into overdrive and he does what alot of us would do if driven this far.  He fights for his life.  ((hence the fight in FOF.))


This is instinct kicking in.  As much as I hate to say this it's almost impossible to be logical when something that powerful exerts itself.


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 12, 2012)

lazer said:


> People really need to think instead of following their impulses



You're kidding, right? There is no "thinking" in a heat-of-the-moment, tense situation like that. It's do or die. Run or fight.


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## GodOfAzure (Jan 12, 2012)

Mintaka said:


> Just did this myself.
> 
> Took less than three seconds.



Now stab that into a writhing bag of flesh (or anything that can provide resistance without making it look like you're jerking off in midair), I reckon it'll take longer than 3 seconds.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 12, 2012)

lazer said:


> You misunderstood, a stab doesn't need to be fatal but _effective_, meaning you don't have to stab a person 12 times in the chest and abdomen to be effective but instead cause them enough pain which would give you the opportunity to escape and avoid murder lol why is this so hard to get? this is obvious. For example, if that was me, i would've given him a non-fatal testicle stab which would immobilize him long enough to let me escape.
> 
> Younger people tend to act more rashily, so i would'nt expect a 15 year old to act accordingly and use sound judgement and precision over hatred and anger in this kind of situation. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon that they themselves don't even know how to use effectively.
> 
> People really need to think instead of following their impulses




I tell you what, you let me live with just a stab wound to my balls, and you can imagine what I'll do in retaliation to you...

AND your family.


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## Louis-954 (Jan 12, 2012)

> You misunderstood, a stab doesn't need to be fatal but effective, meaning you don't have to stab a person 12 times in the chest and abdomen to be effective but instead cause them enough pain which would give you the opportunity to escape and avoid murder lol why is this so hard to get?


You should look up the definition of murder before you use the word incorrectly as you have done right here. "Murder" is the _*unlawful*_ killing of another human being via a confrontation that you yourself initiate. This kid did everything he could to avoid the bully, he even attempted to escape his _*attacker*_ and has witnesses to confirm his recollection of the events. 

His actions are justified and well within the law.



> Younger people tend to act more rashily, so i would'nt expect a 15 year old to act accordingly and use sound judgement and precision over hatred and anger in this kind of situation. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon that they themselves don't even know how to use effectively.


There is no law against carrying a knife on your person here in Florida, and this was a pocket knife, they have utilities for things other than shanking bullies. Shocking, I know... I know this because I carried one around myself for a while and it wasn't with the intent of fucking someone up with it. Again, the kid got off two stop early and even tried to *run 
away* shanking him was his last resort when left with no other alternative. Is that so hard to understand?



> People really need to think instead of following their impulses


Next time someone makes you fear for your life or fear potentially serious bodily harm come back and tell me the same thing. Idk about you but if someone bigger and older is attacking me and has his two friends with him and I can't escape, yeah I'm gonna do whatever I can to survive, even if that means acting on impulses that might prove fatal for the people assaulting me.


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## Deleted member 198194 (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't really know what to think.


The best thing to do would have been to knock the bully out man to man.  But the bully had it coming anyway.  Oh and it would be nice if the woman bitching looks in the mirror and accepts some responsibility, I'm sure her shitty parenting had something to do with her kid putting him self in a position where someone would defend themselves against him.


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## Ceria (Jan 12, 2012)

Rob said:


> It's always nice when the legal system gets things right.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to be sympathetic because she has of course lost a son, but it needs to be said that the tragedy was mainly her son's fault with some left over for the people helping him.



So often than not it gets it wrong. It was entirely her son's fault because he was an asshole, she should accept the shame of her son's actions and not make herself look even more stupid by attempting to say otherwise.


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## Cromer (Jan 12, 2012)

I want to ask the people going 'Oh, but 11 times is too much...'


What do you think would have happened if Naavedra stabbed Nuno once and backed off? 

a) Nuno never bothers him again

b) Nuno goes tattling to parents/principal, making Jorge out to be the villain?

c) Nuno grabs Naavedra, rips knife from hand, and proceeds to inflict bloody disproportionate retribution?


I think it's pretty obvious a) ain't happening, and b) is only slightly probable. I completely back the real victim in this case here: Jorge Naavedra.


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## GodOfAzure (Jan 12, 2012)

Cromer said:


> I want to ask the people going 'Oh, but 11 times is too much...'
> 
> 
> What do you think would have happened if Naavedra stabbed Nuno once and backed off?
> ...



He could have used a blunt weapon in place of a knife; instead of avoiding the guy, who from the article, just threw shit at him and heckled him on the bus. It also appears this is the first time it actually got physical (aside from the things he threw at him on the bus). Is this the first time he stood up to the bully in this instance? If so, it's ironic the first time he actually stands up for himself, it results in homicide. 

The article also mentions Nuno was a victim of bullying from his previous school. He could have been acting out. Regardless, I don't support either side. Don't push someone to the breaking point while at the same time don't let someone push you to that point.


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## ImperatorMortis (Jan 12, 2012)

Heh.. Nice.


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## HolyHands (Jan 12, 2012)

GodOfAzure said:


> He could have used a blunt weapon in place of a knife; instead of avoiding the guy, who from the article, just threw shit at him and heckled him on the bus. It also appears this is the first time it actually got physical (aside from the things he threw at him on the bus). Is this the first time he stood up to the bully in this instance? If so, it's ironic the first time he actually stands up for himself, it results in homicide.
> 
> The article also mentions Nuno was a victim of bullying from his previous school. He could have been acting out. Regardless, I don't support either side. Don't push someone to the breaking point while at the same time don't let someone push you to that point.



Blunt weapon? Like what? Most blunt weapons I know of can't exactly fit into a pocket.


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## Mael (Jan 12, 2012)

A lot of illogical idealism here.


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## Hothien (Jan 12, 2012)

It boils down to two things, really:

1) The use of the knife in self-defense was justified.
2) Once the knife was used, the situation was escalated to the point to where the attacker had to be disabled. Dead is disabled.


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## Louis-954 (Jan 12, 2012)

> He could have used a *blunt weapon* in place of a knife; instead of avoiding the guy, who from the article, just threw shit at him and heckled him on the bus. It also appears this is the first time it actually got physical (aside from the things he threw at him on the bus). Is this the first time he stood up to the bully in this instance? If so, it's ironic the first time he actually stands up for himself, it results in homicide.


Yeah because cracking him upside the head with a baseball or 2x4 won't also result in death.


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## lazer (Jan 12, 2012)

Some people here are acting as if killing this bully was the only possible option in this situation which i find very worrying.


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## eHav (Jan 12, 2012)

lazer said:


> Some people here are acting as if killing this bully was the only possible option in this situation which i find very worrying.



it was not the only option. but its completely justified. no point in dweling in what ifs now


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## Hothien (Jan 12, 2012)

lazer said:


> Some people here are acting as if killing this bully was the only possible option in this situation which i find very worrying.



*disabling* the bully was the only option that would leave the kid feeling somewhat safe. Which means, in a fight, causing considerable harm to ensure that he's too distracted by the pain to retaliate.

Otherwise, what's the point of self-defense? "Oh, let me nick you right quick. Please don't kill me with my own knife."


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## Louis-954 (Jan 12, 2012)

> Some people are acting as if killing this bully was the only possible option in this situation which i find very worrying


Have you ever been assaulted and chased down by someone looking to cause you some serious bodily harm? It's terrifying, Dylan even punched him in the back of the head, something that can easily result in killing someone. Force should be met with greater force.


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## HolyHands (Jan 12, 2012)

eHav said:


> it was not the only option. but its completely justified. no point in dweling in what ifs now



This.

Killing didn't HAVE to happen, but the victim was in a situation that called for self-defense. The bully dying is unfortunate, but the use of force was still justified.


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## Yōkai (Jan 12, 2012)

I almost did the same when i was in grade school 

I used to carry a pocket knife as anti-bully protection device

never had to stab anyone, showing it was enough to achieve the desired effect. 

but i would have done it if it was necesary

I approve what the guy did

And for those who say 12 stabs were too many, in a knife fight, you never stab someone just one or two times, you do it multiple times, because stabs won't bring your opponent down or make it back down immediately, unless you're carefully aiming for a vital point, like the heart or the carotid artery, and doing that would show a much bigger premeditation to kill.


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## Stunna (Jan 12, 2012)

The people in here encouraging the murder of bullies are insane. Yeah, better the bully die than the victim, but the taking of a life when it could have been avoided isn't something I'd condone in this situation.


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## Yachiru (Jan 12, 2012)

Ignore these crocodile tears.. When a bully is out for blood he's gonna die, that's all there's to it.


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## Louis-954 (Jan 12, 2012)

> The people in here encouraging the murder of bullies are insane.


No one here is condoning the murder of bullies. I do however, condone the use of lethal force if you feel your life is in danger and you have tried every other avenue possible to escape the situation. Especially when you already been hit like this kid was, then chased by the bully and his two goons.

Definition of murder:  what we have here isn't murder.



> but the taking of a life when it could have been avoided isn't something I'd condone in this situation.


He did try to avoid it many times, even tried twice on the day he ended up killing him.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 12, 2012)

Stunna said:


> The people in here encouraging the murder of bullies are insane. Yeah, better the bully die than the victim, but the taking of a life when it could have been avoided isn't something I'd condone in this situation.



uh, the kid tried to avoid the bully as best and often as possible, but in this instance where he couldn't get away, the only option was _self defense_, which resulted in the bully dying.

this has been said who knows hows many times before in this thread already, but what's so hard to get about that?


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## Talon. (Jan 12, 2012)

I can agree with the Judge for once.

If that Bully was fucking with this kid he had every right to retaliate. Who knows, maybe his intention wasnt to kill the kid. jus' saiyan.


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## moomoosoup (Jan 12, 2012)

Nuno is just lucky he didn't get it sooner. He sure as hell should have. Why torture the kid. He's trying to back off from a fight he never wanted to be in and you won't let him then I say you should be stabbed more than 12 times. Let's give him 18 for his upcoming 18th birthday!


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 12, 2012)

moomoosoup said:


> Nuno is just lucky he didn't get it sooner. He sure as hell should have. Why torture the kid. He's trying to back off from a fight he never wanted to be in and you won't let him then I say you should be stabbed more than 12 times. Let's give him 18 for his upcoming 18th birthday!



Nuno is dead.


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## Stunna (Jan 12, 2012)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> uh, the kid tried to avoid the bully as best and often as possible, but in this instance where he couldn't get away, the only option was _self defense_, which resulted in the bully dying.


Did it _have_ to result in the death of the bully? If there was no other way, yeah, stab the sucker. I'm just expressing that I don't think that this kind of thing should become habitual if avoidable.



> this has been said who knows hows many times before in this thread already, but what's so hard to get about that?


/kanyeshrug

Sorry for the extra, maybe, _twenty_ seconds it took to repeat it.


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## Pilaf (Jan 12, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> I'm okay with the kid defending himself but stabbing him 12 times sounds like murder to me.



 Glorious, deserved murder. If only it could happen to more bullies.


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## Zhariel (Jan 12, 2012)

I want to be a sympathetic and normal person, but I'm not bothered by this. Think twice before fucking with someone.


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## kazuri (Jan 12, 2012)

Yea, someone who bullys someone for no reason would definitely stop, and never try to get revenge after being stabbed only one time. Or even after being hit once, etc.

That would definitely not put the kid's life in even more danger.


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## Redshadow49 (Jan 12, 2012)

The only thing I could say is that at that moment life and death become a blur and instincts take over, what he did was completely human.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 12, 2012)

Stunna said:


> Did it _have_ to result in the death of the bully?



uh, technically it _didn't_ have to, but it did. get over it.



> I'm just expressing that I don't think that this kind of thing should become habitual if avoidable.



since the kid's situation _wasn't_ avoidable, he had to do it in self-defense.

highly doubt it's going to become a habit since it was done out of self-defense.



> /kanyeshrug
> 
> Sorry for the extra, maybe, _twenty_ seconds it took to repeat it.



considering that's not even close to what i meant when i said "this has been said who knows how many times", what you just said is completely irrelevant


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## moomoosoup (Jan 12, 2012)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> Nuno is dead.



I know but he wasn't at the time of the stabbing so six more wouldn't have been for nothing.


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## ImperatorMortis (Jan 12, 2012)

Pilaf said:


> *Glorious, deserved murder.* If only it could happen to more bullies.



Hell... Yes.


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## Cromer (Jan 12, 2012)

I see a lot of people here must have been bullied before.


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## Yōkai (Jan 12, 2012)

The only bully i ever had was in grade school, and he's dead now


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## Yōkai (Jan 12, 2012)

No, i didn't kill him, i was told he died in a motorcycle crash

but if i ever stumble upon his grave, im going to vandalize it for sure


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## PervySageSensei (Jan 12, 2012)

Wow. I knew a guy who brought a knife to school to stab a girl that kept talking crap about him. This guy was 13 and was going to hurt some girl for alot less then what this guy did. A 14yr old who brings a knife to a bus stop, to confront a bully that's been picking on him for a long time, is pretty much going to have the intent to use the knife on the guy. Stabbing him 11 times is plenty proof of that he wanted to kill or F this guy up pretty badly. 


I don't think the "stand your ground" law of Florida really justifies what this kid did. Sure he may have thought he couldn't deal with the bully on his own or go to others for help. But there still was that option. If he just waved the knife at the guy or stabbed him once, I think that would of been alright depending on how the fight went. But repeatedly stabbing someone even out of fear, is still wrong and he needs to own up to what he did.


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## MasterSitsu (Jan 12, 2012)

I fail to see how he deserved to die, typical emotional over reactionaries 

He should of dealt with that shit like a man, not as a murderer.


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## Mook Mook the Bushman (Jan 12, 2012)

Skimmed over this thread and just wanted to address something.

Jorge never intended to kill Nuno. Once he started stabbing he did not go into some sort of rage that resulted in him stabbing Nuno 12 times. The first 10 stabs were superficial. They were done while Nuno was holding Jorge done on his stomach, after caught time. In an attempt to be release, Jorge made the stabs from under his armpit. After these ten Nuno let up enough just so Jorge could get turn himself around, from which he stabbed to more times, one of these being the fatal one. After this, Jorge managed to escape Nuno and began to run away for a third time. Nuno then told his friends to go after Jorge and kick his ass or something like that.

Its sad that Nuno died even though he was a huge fucking asshole and an assaulter but Jorge didn't murder him.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 12, 2012)

PervySageSensei said:


> Wow. I knew a guy who brought a knife to school to stab a girl that kept talking crap about him. This guy was 13 and was going to hurt some girl for alot less then what this guy did. A 14yr old who brings a knife to a bus stop, to confront a bully that's been picking on him for a long time, is pretty much going to have the intent to use the knife on the guy. Stabbing him 11 times is plenty proof of that he wanted to kill or F this guy up pretty badly.


Did you even READ the article? The kid did EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to avoid the bully. Yet said bully practically hunted him down, injured him and forced a confrontation. 



> I don't think the "stand your ground" law of Florida really justifies what this kid did. Sure he may have thought he couldn't deal with the bully on his own or go to others for help. But there still was that option. If he just waved the knife at the guy or stabbed him once, I think that would of been alright depending on how the fight went. But repeatedly stabbing someone even out of fear, is still wrong and he needs to own up to what he did.


You do know how useless adults are usually when bullying starts right? 

Let me guess, you haven't been bullied. Or if you have, its so long ago you don't remember the helplessness.




MasterSitsu said:


> I fail to see how he deserved to die, typical emotional over reactionaries
> 
> He should of dealt with that shit like a man, not as a murderer.


It was self defense. Almost all the stabs (from a fricking POCKET KNIFE-something not known for sharpness) were superficial.


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2012)

Miss Goobette said:


> You're kidding, right? There is no "thinking" in a heat-of-the-moment, tense situation like that. It's do or die. Run or fight.



And this is a great example of contradiction. And it wasn't a heat of the moment situation because he was prepared.


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## Ceria (Jan 12, 2012)

eHav said:


> it was not the only option. but its completely justified. no point in dweling in what ifs now



Exactly, you can't un-ring the bell as the phrase goes, while the bully's death was warranted in the situation i'm sure that it's not what anyone wanted.


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## PikaCheeka (Jan 12, 2012)

I kind of lol-ed when I read this.

Court did the right thing. Hopefully kids in that school will be more careful about bullying as a whole now.


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## Pilaf (Jan 12, 2012)

PervySageSensei said:


> Wow. I knew a guy who brought a knife to school to stab a girl that kept talking crap about him. This guy was 13 and was going to hurt some girl for alot less then what this guy did. A 14yr old who brings a knife to a bus stop, to confront a bully that's been picking on him for a long time, is pretty much going to have the intent to use the knife on the guy. Stabbing him 11 times is plenty proof of that he wanted to kill or F this guy up pretty badly.
> 
> 
> I don't think the "stand your ground" law of Florida really justifies what this kid did. Sure he may have thought he couldn't deal with the bully on his own or go to others for help. But there still was that option. If he just waved the knife at the guy or stabbed him once, I think that would of been alright depending on how the fight went. But repeatedly stabbing someone even out of fear, is still wrong and he needs to own up to what he did.




So...you try to argue against what this kid did by telling a story that has absolutely nothing in common with it except for a knife?

Congratulations on your victory:


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2012)

Pilaf, that was funny.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 12, 2012)

I liek how people stay getting stabbed once or twice will disable a person drugged out on adrenaline.

Unless teh kid had the dexterity and the presence of mind to drop down and slash at his tendons.

But do you want to know why police and military aim for center mass?

Easiest to hit, and most effective in hitting vital parts of the body to disable someone.

If you fuck up someone's limbs, guess what? There's a good chance they will still come after you.


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## Ausorrin (Jan 12, 2012)

Bullshit.

The kid brought a knife and got off a couple of bus stops before his own.  He was clearly looking for a confrontation.  And someone punching u in the head does not justify u killing them.

If the kid would have told his parents or the right adults, maybe this could have been avoided and a mother would still have her son.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 12, 2012)

Ausorrin said:


> The kid brought a knife and got off a couple of bus stops before his own.  He was clearly looking for a confrontation.  And someone punching u in the head does not justify u killing them.



first off, the kid had been carrying around a pocket knife because he was scared for his life.

secondly, he got off two stops before his actual stop to try and _avoid_ the kid bullying him, and then tried to run away.

thirdly, the bully brought along his _posse_, so what was clear was that they were going to gang up on him, and they did since all three went after the kid after he got off the bus.



> If the kid would have told his parents or the right adults, maybe this could have been avoided and a mother would still have her son.



parents and teachers tend not to do any actual shit about a bullying. these days, their solution is to give the bully a relatively light slap on the wrist.


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## Bear Walken (Jan 12, 2012)

No wonder he raged stabbed the bully 12 times. 

The bully was still punching him and calling for his friends to jump him.


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## Oturan (Jan 12, 2012)

this should be a lesson for bullies everywhere. Just.Don't.Fuck.With.People.


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 12, 2012)

Hand Banana said:


> And this is a great example of contradiction. And it wasn't a heat of the moment situation because he was prepared.





> Saavedra ?demonstrated that, with or without a knife, (he) had no desire to fight with Dylan Nuno.?



Yes it was. He had no desire to fight him, and he was pushed into a situation where he had to end it. He actually even tried to run away once. 

In other words, lol.


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2012)

Miss Goobette said:


> Yes it was. He had no desire to fight him, and he was pushed into a situation where he had to end it. He actually even tried to run away once.
> 
> In other words, lol.



Now we're hitting irony.


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## Mintaka (Jan 12, 2012)

How is this ironic?

Why is it that just because he has a knife on him he suddenly becomes a premeditated murderer?


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## HolyHands (Jan 12, 2012)

Ausorrin said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> The kid brought a knife and got off a couple of bus stops before his own.  He was clearly looking for a confrontation.  And someone punching u in the head does not justify u killing them.
> 
> If the kid would have told his parents or the right adults, maybe this could have been avoided and a mother would still have her son.



Getting off a couple of stops ahead of time is an example of retreating, not "looking for a confrontation". Going by your logic, anyone who runs away from a bad situation is a criminal. And being punched doesn't justify killing, but it does justify self-defense. The fact that the bully died unfortunately happened as a side-effect of self-defense.


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## Bluebeard (Jan 12, 2012)

Wonder how the 'STOP BULLYING' people will respond to this.


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 12, 2012)

Hand Banana said:


> Now we're hitting irony.



Nothing ironic about it.


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2012)

Mintaka said:


> How is this ironic?
> 
> Why is it that just because he has a knife on him he suddenly becomes a premeditated murderer?



I was replying to a post genius. Do you ever read?


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## TheFlash (Jan 12, 2012)

Why the hell did he have a knife with him at a bus stop? That alone should be enough to get him suspended for a week. 

But really, this kid should have reported the bullies before it got this far. If he had and no adults had done anything, then there must be something rotten in the Naples school system.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 12, 2012)

Bukhara Burnes said:


> Why the hell did he have a knife with him at a bus stop? That alone should be enough to get him suspended for a week.


It was a pocket knife. You know, the type of thing boyscouts have. Normally a non-lethal weapon. 

And seriously, its self defense. Stop blaming the victim.


> But really, this kid should have reported the bullies before it got this far. If he had and no adults had done anything, then there must be something rotten in the Naples school system.


The adults were _useless_. Did you read ANYTHING in the article or just hop onto "The bullying victim had a knife, he was in the wrong!"


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 12, 2012)

you forget, SS.

if anyone has anything that can be used as a weapon, the person who has it is always guilty.

even if it was just a pen or a sharpened pencil, these people would be saying the same thing.


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## Burke (Jan 12, 2012)

> In her decision, signed Dec. 30, 2011, the judge said Saavedra had ?no duty to retreat? and was ?legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force.?



I fucking love foreign countries. 

That is literally some norse eye for an eye shit.
i mean naples


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## Miss Fortune (Jan 12, 2012)

He had the right to defend himself.

But... yeah... overkill on defending himself...

Still. Haha bully... um... ha... ha...


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 12, 2012)

Bluebeard said:


> Wonder how the 'STOP BULLYING' people will respond to this.



STAB BULLYING!


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## kazuri (Jan 12, 2012)

If someone is attacking you and you aren't doing anything illegal, you should absolutely be able to assume they are trying to kill you. Why should victims have to be 'careful' about not getting killed? You can't read an attackers mind, you have no idea if they want to beat you up, or kill you, or will come after you again tomorrow.

Would this cause deaths that wouldn't normally happen? Sure. Because of that should people risk being killed because they should assume the bully is going to stop, or not come the next day? That is stupid.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 12, 2012)

Miss Fortune said:


> He had the right to defend himself.
> 
> But... yeah... overkill on defending himself...
> 
> Still. Haha bully... um... ha... ha...


Most of the wounds were non-lethal. Its a fricken pocket knife.


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## Darklyre (Jan 12, 2012)

St. Burke said:


> I fucking love foreign countries.
> 
> That is literally some norse eye for an eye shit.
> i mean naples



Why the fuck should a victim be forced to retreat from a place they legally have a right to be in response to an attacker's illegal actions?

Fuck that shit. You start shit like a dumbass, don't whine when you get your ass stabbed.


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## Gunners (Jan 12, 2012)

Yōkai said:


> No, i didn't kill him, i was told he died in a motorcycle crash
> 
> but if i ever stumble upon his grave, im going to vandalize it for sure


You deserved to get bullied, seems as though I can't neg you.


Ausorrin said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> The kid brought a knife and got off a couple of bus stops before his own.  He was clearly looking for a confrontation.  And someone punching u in the head does not justify u killing them.
> 
> If the kid would have told his parents or the right adults, maybe this could have been avoided and a mother would still have her son.


It is better to say he was expecting a confrontation and brought the knife for insurance. He got off a couple stops early to avoid the bully. 

Adults knew he was getting bullied, the bus driver knew the kid provoked him, his parents knew why he didn't want to take the bus to school, why he didn't want to go to school some times. I can't remember if the school knew. Adults don't deal with bullying effectively. 

The mother would still have a son if her husband taught their son not to be a mindless thug whilst training him how to take people down.
________
This is why physically weak people are more dangerous than people who put too much value in their fists.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 12, 2012)

Gunner's a cyber bully it seems.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 12, 2012)

Just like if you get shot in the face robbing a house, if you get stabbed twelve times bullying someone, sounds like it was just another occupational hazard.


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## Gunners (Jan 12, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Gunner's a cyber bully it seems.



The accusation makes no sense.


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2012)

Gunners said:


> The accusation makes no sense.



I know right? You soft as cake.


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## TheFlash (Jan 12, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It was a pocket knife. You know, the type of thing boyscouts have. Normally a non-lethal weapon.
> 
> And seriously, its self defense. Stop blaming the victim.
> 
> The adults were _useless_. Did you read ANYTHING in the article or just hop onto "The bullying victim had a knife, he was in the wrong!"



Sorry. Didn't have the whole situation.

Anyways, the school really should've done something better. This is probably a bit hard for me to understand because all of my schools have dealt with bullying quickly and effectively. Sorry if I struck a nerve.

You see, in some of the parts of the internet that I frequent, there tends to be a "all bullies should be killed" mindset that I find quite detestable. Of course, that's not what this is at all, and I really should've realized that.


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## Gunners (Jan 12, 2012)

Hand Banana said:


> I know right? You soft as cake.



Nah son, I'm harder than your mum's scones.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 12, 2012)

Bukhara Burnes said:


> Sorry. Didn't have the whole situation.
> 
> Anyways, the school really should've done something better. This is probably a bit hard for me to understand because all of my schools have dealt with bullying quickly and effectively. Sorry if I struck a nerve.


Schools rarely do anything when bullying happens. And if they do, its a slap on the wrist or the victim's blamed. 


> You see, in some of the parts of the internet that I frequent, there tends to be a "all bullies should be killed" mindset that I find quite detestable. Of course, that's not what this is at all, and I really should've realized that.


Have you ever been the target of bullies?


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## Buskuv (Jan 12, 2012)

No one in their right mind is advocating pre-meditated murder in reciprocation for any kind of bullying. 

However, when you push someone over and over again, following them and assaulting them for weeks upon weeks for no real reason, you have to realize something is going to happen.  It's just that when the other shoe dropped, the asshole is the one who ended up in the ground.


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## TheFlash (Jan 12, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Schools rarely do anything when bullying happens. And if they do, its a slap on the wrist or the victim's blamed.
> 
> Have you ever been the target of bullies?



Yes, and I did not enjoy it at all. My main problem was not telling the adults; I was afraid to. When I did tell adults about the problem, it was quickly dealt with. If only all students were that lucky.

Again, this is probably why its a bit hard for me to understand this situation.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sad story, but in all honesty it's pretty clear from reading the article that the bully deserved it. The kid even got off the bus early to try to avoid confrontation. The fact that the kid is a freshman and the bully a senior also says a lot. Those that get bullied should snap more often.


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## felixng2008 (Jan 12, 2012)

If you bully someone constantly don't expect them not to retaliate. Eventually they will snap especially when you punch them in the back of the head which can potentially cause brain damage or even kill them if you use lethal force.


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## Darth inVaders (Jan 13, 2012)

The bully did not deserve to die, but the kid that killed him did not deserve jail - he was clearly pushed too far and snapped. Kids cannot be held to the same accountability as adults. 

This is a tragedy, my sympathies go to everyone involved. I hope the kid gets counseling though.


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## Level7N00b (Jan 13, 2012)

Ain't no kill like overkill.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 13, 2012)

The way I see this is its no different than an abused wife being systematically tortured until she lashes out and stabs her husband over 100 times.


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## neko-sennin (Jan 13, 2012)

When a person goes to that length to try to avoid fighting, this bully truly has no one to blame but himself.



Saufsoldat said:


> Yep, looks like self-defense to me. The 12 times stabbing can easily be explained by fear.



Can't speak for anyone else, but I know myself well enough to know that if I were in his shoes, I would keep stabbing until the bastard quit grappling or otherwise attacking me.

Bear in mind that this Nuno, like the coward that he was, brought a couple of his friends with him, because we all know how much bullies are into good sportsmanship and all, that the longer you struggle with one foe, the more you time you give other attackers to get into the act.



WAD said:


> Part of the reason lethal force in self-defense is allowed is because, what if he only stabbed him once? Just hurting him enough to "back off"? There is more than a good chance vengeance could be sought out by the bully and he would be the one making the news for killing his victim.



And he probably would have either ambushed him somewhere without witnesses, or else brought even more people to the fight next time.



> Dylan Nuno?s family and friends have defended the teen, saying repeatedly he was not a bully and in fact transferred from Lely High School to Palmetto Ridge to escape taunting himself.



They can keep _saying_ that all they want, but it will not change a single one of Nuno's actions or decisions.



superattackpea said:


> I support this decision.
> 
> The kid dealt with a problem in a rational manner, it was very mature of him. I think we have far too much of an emphasis on running away and letting others handle your problems in this country.



Exactly. And we've seen, 9 out of 10 times, how well that approach works.


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## Vladimir Lenin (Jan 13, 2012)

twenty bucks says the bully had a knife as well.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Jan 13, 2012)

"_Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery._" - Malcolm X

A philosophy that I personally agree with.


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## Stelios (Jan 13, 2012)

Let's hope that they did not release a psycho-sociopath back to the community.
On a bright side this gives out a message to all the bullies in the world.

"Don't bully people around because you might get stabbed in the chest eventually"


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 13, 2012)

mstelios said:


> Let's hope that they did not release a psycho-sociopath back to the community.
> On a bright side this gives out a message to all the bullies in the world.
> 
> "Don't bully people around because you might get stabbed in the chest eventually"


Again you show how little in touch you are. The victim was not a sociopath. He did everything he did to avoid confrontation. He was defending himself.


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## Gaawa-chan (Jan 13, 2012)

I'd be interested in more details about the nature of the bullying as well as the knife wounds inflicted. 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The way I see this is its no different than an abused wife being systematically tortured until she lashes out and stabs her husband over 100 times.



I agree.




Bukhara Burnes said:


> Yes, and I did not enjoy it at all. My main problem was not telling the adults; I was afraid to. When I did tell adults about the problem, it was quickly dealt with. If only all students were that lucky.
> 
> Again, this is probably why its a bit hard for me to understand this situation.



I remember when bullying got really bad for me, I told my teacher.  He told me that 'No one likes a tattle-tale.'  Real charmer, that guy was... he ended up encouraging them and then participating in it himself.  My parents contacted the school and the staff tried to shift blame on me for the teacher's behavior and bent over backwards trying to avoid letting me have a different teacher.  It only ended when my father threatened to sue the school, and even then I had to stay home for two weeks before they transferred me to a different class because they wouldn't do it right away.
I'd been in an advanced class before that so I spent about two months reading waiting for my new classmates to catch up with me because my new teacher couldn't think of anything else for me to do. I think I helped some of my classmates, too.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jan 13, 2012)

read and stop posting idiotic comments


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Jan 13, 2012)

And nothing of value was lost that day.


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## Fat Free Milk (Jan 13, 2012)

That's ridiculous. I'd completely understand if the kid defended himself by punching the bully or hitting him with a blunt object nearby but stabbing him 12 times is just overkill. Someone like that is definitely going to kill again.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Jan 13, 2012)

Fat Free Milk said:


> That's ridiculous. I'd completely understand if the kid defended himself by punching the bully or hitting him with a blunt object nearby but stabbing him 12 times is just overkill. Someone like that is definitely going to kill again.



Something tells me you didn't read the thread.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 13, 2012)

Fat Free Milk said:


> That's ridiculous. I'd completely understand if the kid defended himself by punching the bully or hitting him with a blunt object nearby but stabbing him 12 times is just overkill. Someone like that is definitely going to kill again.




He was _defending himself_. He used a weapon, a pocket knife which can inflict mostly SUPERFICIAL WOUNDS. 

He wasn't intending to kill at all. It was self defense. And the bully brought it upon himself.



mstelios said:


> And now you make yourself look like a complete retard that just replies to me because of personal conflict.I never said he was a sociopath.I said let's hope.Would you not be scarred if you killed someone even if he was bullying you?


He didn't intentionally kill him, mstelios. You act like he intentionally did so. He had a pocket knife. Guess what? You'd have to have a a hundred in one chances to kill someone with it since they are generally non lethal. 

You never been bullied before huh? And please, don't flame.


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## Soca (Jan 13, 2012)

Fat Free Milk said:


> That's ridiculous. *I'd completely understand if the kid defended himself by punching the bully or hitting him with a blunt object nearby but stabbing him 12 times is just overkill*. Someone like that is definitely going to kill again.



Because a punch in the back of the head isn't damaging or lethal? Because the victim hitting the bully with a blunt object to the head won't be just as lethal?  Come on now the kid didn't even want to fight he got off early to avoid conflict but the bully persistently went after him with his buddies. Honestly you'd think kids get the picture that if you push someone for so long that person is going to push back 10 times harder eventually, glad the kid acted instead of backing out lord knows if he did he'd be the in the hospital with his parents crying over him while the bully gets a slap on the wrist.


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## Stelios (Jan 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He didn't intentionally kill him, mstelios. You act like he intentionally did so. He had a pocket knife. Guess what? You'd have to have a a hundred in one chances to kill someone with it since they are generally non lethal.
> 
> You never been bullied before huh? And please, don't flame.



I never said he did how do you make out that I act like he intentionally did so?I was just bold and straight in my written expression.*And again would you not be under psychological stress if you killed someone when you raged because he bullied you*?Bullied...In every school in every country kids get bullied and bully back later in their life.But you don't get to read every day that someone killed a human because of this.At least where I live.


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## Fat Free Milk (Jan 13, 2012)

Colonel Awesome said:


> Something tells me you didn't read the thread.



To be honest, I read the first few paragraphs then skimmed the rest. Didn't know that he specifically said he didn't want to fight and tried to get away. My mistake. After actually reading the article, my opinion changed. I still think stabbing him that many times was going overboard though.

EDIT: Oh wow. Didn't think so many people would hate my post.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He was _defending himself_. He used a weapon, a pocket knife which can inflict mostly SUPERFICIAL WOUNDS.
> 
> He wasn't intending to kill at all. *It was self defense. And the bully brought it upon himself.*



I meant how he defended himself, not defending himself in general. And after thoroughly reading the article I agree with you on the bolded parts. Not so much the "he wasn't intending to kill at all," part though.



Marcelle.B said:


> Because a punch in the back of the head isn't damaging or lethal? Because the victim hitting the bully with a blunt object to the head won't be just as lethal?  Come on now the kid didn't even want to fight he got off early to avoid conflict but the bully persistently went after him with his buddies. Honestly you'd think kids get the picture that if you push someone for so long that person is going to push back 10 times harder eventually, glad the kid acted instead of backing out lord knows if he did he'd be the in the hospital with his parents crying over him while the bully gets a slap on the wrist.



Never did I imply either tactic wasn't damaging or lethal. I was implying they were lesser so. As for the rest of your post, just like the other I quoted, I agree with you now.


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## Gunners (Jan 13, 2012)

It's funny how people take a completely different approach to children defending themselves. If a group of miscreants sucker punched an adult and he turned around and shot one of them people would not bat an eye lid. 

People wouldn't even ask for a history of bullying.


mstelios said:


> I never said he did how do you make out that I act like he intentionally did so?I was just bold and straight in my written expression.*And again would you not be under psychological stress if you killed someone when you raged because he bullied you*?Bullied...In every school in every country kids get bullied and bully back later in their life.But you don't get to read every day that someone killed a human because of this.At least where I live.


Put a space after full stops.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jan 13, 2012)

After the first time, killing things gets much easier.  

As to this rubbish of a story, you don't stab a fool thinking he's gonna walk out doing a jig! Ain't no problems bring your own game, but when you bring it you know the score in your heart. That's why it's called defense and not rolling over! Still, I feel like he went in half cocked. He shoulda brought something with more destructive power!!!


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 13, 2012)

Fat Free Milk said:


> To be honest, I read the first few paragraphs then skimmed the rest. Didn't know that he specifically said he didn't want to fight and tried to get away. My mistake. After actually reading the article, my opinion changed. I still think stabbing him that many times was going overboard though.


Most of those stab wounds were defensive, as well as non-lethal. The victim accidentally killed him with a million to one kill stab.


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## Gunners (Jan 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Most of those stab wounds were defensive, as well as non-lethal. The victim accidentally killed him with a million to one kill stab.



Stop bullshitting please. Stabbing someone 11 times is a clear enough sign that you intend to kill them or cause them grievous bodily harm. Acting in self-defense doesn't change his intention, it changes his purpose.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 13, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Stop bullshitting please. Stabbing someone 11 times is a clear enough sign that you intend to kill them or cause them grievous bodily harm. Acting in self-defense doesn't change his intention, it changes his purpose.


They were defensive wounds. And you're ignoring the weapon. Pocket knives aren't very good weapons to kill someone. They are rather blunt, small, and hard to maneuver. They can only really inflict superficial wounds. You'd have to be insanely lucky to kill someone with one. 

You do know what a defensive wound is right? Or are you bullshitting yourself to blame the victim?


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## Gunners (Jan 13, 2012)

> They were defensive wounds. And you're ignoring the weapon. Pocket knives aren't very good weapons to kill someone. They are rather blunt, small, and hard to maneuver. They can only really inflict superficial wounds. You'd have to be insanely lucky to kill someone with one.


Not all pocket knives are the same, this one in particular was sharp enough to pass his flesh and pierce his heart. 


> You do know what a defensive wound is right? Or are you bullshitting yourself to blame the victim?


_Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the *chest and abdomen*. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart._
Do *you* know what a defensive wound is? And I'm not defending the 'victim', if you look at my posts throughout the thread you would see that I believe he acted in self-defense. 

You're being oversensitive. If you have unresolved issues speak to your parents or drink them away.


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## HolyDemon (Jan 13, 2012)

Morale of the story: next time you want to bully somebody, pick an martial artist, they know how to handle their own emotion and your body so that you won't get permanently damaged. 

Go after an unpredictable teenager if you're feeling stupid.


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## neko-sennin (Jan 13, 2012)

PervySageSensei said:


> A 14yr old who brings a knife to a bus stop, to confront a bully that's been picking on him for a long time, is pretty much going to have the intent to use the knife on the guy. Stabbing him 11 times is plenty proof of that he wanted to kill or F this guy up pretty badly.



Or it could mean that he was already expecting to get ganged up on, and for them to possibly be armed as well. Ever think of that, hmm?



PervySageSensei said:


> If he just waved the knife at the guy or stabbed him once, I think that would of been alright depending on how the fight went. But repeatedly stabbing someone even out of fear, is still wrong and he needs to own up to what he did.



You've clearly never been in a real fight, but I honestly hope that neither you, nor anyone you love would ever have to put your stupidity to the test.



Hand Banana said:


> And it wasn't a heat of the moment situation because he was prepared.



Because a weapon automatically "prepares" its user. 

Are you even listening to yourself?



Ausorrin said:


> The kid brought a knife and got off a couple of bus stops before his own. He was clearly looking for a confrontation.



Um, yeah. People looking for a confrontation always RUN AWAY, right? 

If it was an ambush, why did he risk getting hit from behind and debilitated, as blows to the head can often do?



Ausorrin said:


> And someone punching u in the head does not justify u killing them.



And how many times must it be pointed out that unguarded blows to the head can easily cause unconsciousness or brain damage?

And once you're down, is there any guarantee that 3 assholes who've already made an unprovoked assault against you won't just start kicking?



Ausorrin said:


> If the kid would have told his parents or the right adults,



Define "right adults" here, because sometimes there aren't any.



Ausorrin said:


> maybe this could have been avoided and a mother would still have her son.



Maybe if the bitch had raised her kid right, he'd still be alive.

You go out into the big bad world and assault random people, this is the kind of thing that can happen to you.

If Nuno was still attacking him when he was stabbing, then he was perfectly justified with every strike trying to free himself. There was no guarantee the other two guys wouldn't get involved at any point.

I'm amazed an appalled at how many people will go out of their way to defend and grieve for someone who terrorized another person into completely rearranging his life around avoiding him, and still couldn't leave him alone, while condemning and vilifying someone who made every attempt to escape before he was backed into a corner.


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## Casyle (Jan 13, 2012)

Good for Saavedra! I only feel sorry for the bully's family in that they lost a loved one, but beyond that... probably should have taught their son better. 



> Dylan Nuno’s family and friends have defended the teen, saying repeatedly he was not a bully and in fact transferred from Lely High School to Palmetto Ridge to escape taunting himself.



BS. Bigger/badder bullies will bully smaller/weaker bullies, doesn't mean your son was an innocent, misunderstood snowflake. The middle school I went to was loaded with bullies, and every parent knew about their kids reputation. However, they'd always attempt to rationalize it, always trying to rationalize it.


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## butcher50 (Jan 13, 2012)

i remember almost crushing the throat of my bully with a single grip.

(then doing the same to both of his buddies who came to assist)

good memories.

i payed playing the defenseless long enough for them to completely drop their guard.


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## Butterfly (Jan 13, 2012)

Regarding, "Is Twelve Times really necessary" Well, it isn't, but, you don't know when they're going to be unconscious/dead and when you'll be safe. Most people in that situation wouldn't let up for a moment if there was a chance they would be getting pounded and most high school juniors don't have the common sense to run away from a freshman equipped with a pocket knife.

It's sad that this happened, no one deserves to die and it was in self-defense and an honest accident. I really do hope the kid reforms himself to at least tries to seek therapy for whatever traumas he endured and I really hope the deceased's family can heal as well. Let this be a lesson to anyone who is being bullied right now! Violence can be the solution - fatalities are not.


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## butcher50 (Jan 13, 2012)

muffinssi said:


> Regarding, "Is Twelve Times really necessary" Well, it isn't, but, you don't know when they're going to be unconscious/dead and when you'll be safe. Most people in that situation wouldn't let up for a moment if there was a chance they would be getting pounded and most high school juniors don't have the common sense to run away from a freshman equipped with a pocket knife.
> 
> It's sad that this happened, no one deserves to die and it was in self-defense and an honest accident. I really do hope the kid reforms himself to at least tries to seek therapy for whatever traumas he endured and I really hope the deceased's family can heal as well. Let this be a lesson to anyone who is being bullied right now! *Violence can be the solution - fatalities are not*.



a lesson not smeared in blood tends to be overlooked.


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## TheFlash (Jan 13, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> I remember when bullying got really bad for me, I told my teacher.  He told me that 'No one likes a tattle-tale.'  Real charmer, that guy was... he ended up encouraging them and then participating in it himself.  My parents contacted the school and the staff tried to shift blame on me for the teacher's behavior and bent over backwards trying to avoid letting me have a different teacher.  It only ended when my father threatened to sue the school, and even then I had to stay home for two weeks before they transferred me to a different class because they wouldn't do it right away.
> I'd been in an advanced class before that so I spent about two months reading waiting for my new classmates to catch up with me because my new teacher couldn't think of anything else for me to do. I think I helped some of my classmates, too.



What grade were you in? I happened to be in Middle School at the time, and my schools always took bullying extremely seriously. 

Perhaps it has something to do with my location? I did grow up in a very affluent neighborhood where a lot of money went into education.


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## Violence (Jan 13, 2012)

omg... that's too far...very very far...


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## Bill G (Jan 13, 2012)

I'd like to know where some of you live, where you can be so idealistic. I'd love to live there.


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## Terra Branford (Jan 13, 2012)

> ?Brodie?s decision is not setting a good example for children or adults,? said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno?s mother. ?I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another innocent family.?



Innocent? Lady, your son was not innocent, as proved by witnesses. I like how she is worried about good examples, but didn't do anything about her kid being a bully. What a good example she must have set for her kid. 



> Dylan Nuno?s family and friends have defended the teen, saying repeatedly he was not a bully and in fact transferred from Lely High School to Palmetto Ridge to escape taunting himself.


So he punched another kid in the head because...that's how he says hello?

I think she needs to learn the difference between *murder* and *self-defense*. This could have been avoided if she raised her kid better...


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## TheFlash (Jan 13, 2012)

Bill G said:


> I'd like to know where some of you live, where you can be so idealistic. I'd love to live there.



Northern Virginia, man. I grew up in the second richest county in the nation, and the richest is right next door. And virtually all of our county taxes go to education, too.


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## Cornbreesha (Jan 14, 2012)

he stabbed him 12 times. obvious grudge is obvious..


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 14, 2012)

read the OP, Corn


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 14, 2012)

Bully had it coming.


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## Michael Lucky (Jan 14, 2012)




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## Karasu444 (Jan 14, 2012)

Anyone who tries to defend the Nuno are idiots. If you've rearranged your whole life schedule to try to avoid a person (or people) who will beat you up, and yet they continue to come after you, what are you going to do? Try to be like Naruto and use TnJ on them? Hell no! It's Fight or Flight. The kid trying fleeing, but the bullies wouldn't let him. The kid had no choice to defend himself the best he could. And as others said, adrenaline would have kicked in. Your mind would be that of an animal and the situation will become kill or get killed. Simple as that. The bully was an asshole and completely deserved it.


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## Rima (Jan 15, 2012)

Bully had it coming, but 11 times is a little _*too*_ much. He must have _wanted_ to kill him.


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## Karasu444 (Jan 15, 2012)

Rima said:


> Bully had it coming, but 11 times is a little _*too*_ much. He must have _wanted_ to kill him.



Of course he wanted to kill Nuno at that point, cause if he hadn't, then he would have suffered very serious injuries most likely, if not killed himself


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## ExoSkel (Jan 15, 2012)

Why stab him 11 times when he could've just stabbed in his neck and let him bleed to death?

Fuck the bullies. Bullies are one of the main reasons why there are so many suicides in high schools not just in America, but all over around the world.

I repeat, Fuck.The.Bullies.

Good fucking riddance.

This was a clear case of self defense. Anyone else who says otherwise are fucking idiots and need to pull their head out of their ass.


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## Santeira (Jan 15, 2012)

It was all justified.


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## Spock (Jan 15, 2012)

I can't sympathize with the victim.


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## The Weeknd (Jan 15, 2012)

ExoSkel said:


> Why stab him 11 times when he could've just stabbed in his neck and let him bleed to death?
> 
> Fuck the bullies. Bullies are one of the main reasons why there are so many suicides in high schools not just in America, but all over around the world.
> 
> ...


+1

I always love your posts.


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## Bear Walken (Jan 15, 2012)

Rima said:


> Bully had it coming, but 11 times is a little _*too*_ much. He must have _wanted_ to kill him.



Naw, he just stabbed the bully til he stopped punching him and was no longer calling out to his friends to jump him.


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## Jakeirako (Jan 15, 2012)

I have no sympathy for the bully. If he wasn't bullying that other kid none of this would of happened. I bet if the tables were turned and the bully killed his victim, his mother would still be crying about how her son wasn't coming back home.


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## Karasu444 (Jan 15, 2012)

Jakeirako said:


> I have no sympathy for the bully. If he wasn't bullying that other kid none of this would of happened. I bet if the tables were turned and the bully killed his victim, *his mother would still be crying about how her son wasn't coming back home*.



lol, just imagine the mother trying to defend Nuno


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## dummy plug (Jan 15, 2012)

no bullies no death no news...



> ?Brodie?s decision is not setting a good example for children or adults,? said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno?s mother. ?I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another *bully's* family.?



fixed


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## Ausorrin (Jan 15, 2012)

The punishment for bullying is not death


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## Archangel Michael (Jan 15, 2012)

1 I understand how he feels. I got bully before and I never did anything to stop it because if I would have fought in school I would have probably  been kick out of school or suspended.

2  The kid is lucky the judge didn't think it was a attempt in murder.


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## Buskuv (Jan 15, 2012)

Ausorrin said:


> The punishment for bullying is not death



Now it is.

Y'all best back the fuck up 'fore you get smacked the fuck up.


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## OodboO (Jan 15, 2012)

The murderer was a victim before, but what he did shows serious signs of psychosis. I think he needs to be locked up until they asses him to be sane enough to rejoin the society.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 15, 2012)

miki5xD said:


> The murderer was a victim before, but what he did shows serious signs of psychosis. I think he needs to be locked up until they asses him to be sane enough to rejoin the society.




Another one who didn't read at all.


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## Spock (Jan 15, 2012)

4,016 views and 201 posts only. 

THERAPY! 

No point in locking a boy up, how would that improve him.


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## HolyDemon (Jan 15, 2012)

Despite his justification, I feel that this kid reacts pretty badly to conflict. 

What if next time, a boss, or a customer yelled at him and stressed him out, mentally and psychologically, would he have that control over his own actions, to not go after them for revenge and self-preservation? Workplace bullying can be just devastating as school bullying, just with not as much physical damage

Anyway, 2 wrongs don't make right


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## Scott Pilgrim (Jan 16, 2012)

HolyDemon said:


> Despite his justification, I feel that this kid reacts pretty badly to conflict.
> 
> What if next time, a boss, or a customer yelled at him and stressed him out, mentally and psychologically, would he have that control over his own actions, to not go after them for revenge and self-preservation? Workplace bullying can be just devastating as school bullying, just with not as much physical damage
> 
> Anyway, 2 wrongs don't make right



Well, if his boss or a customer decided to punch him in the back of the head, and continue trying to attack him when he tried to walk away, sure stab the fuck out of them in self-defence. You're ignoring the fact that a punch to the back of the head can be lethal.

I remember being bullied in elementry school, I just beat the shit out of the kid, then I was never bullied again. 

Surprisingly I never got bullied much in high school, I don't even remember being bullied, maybe it's cause one of my friends was 6'4"

Eh, if I was bullied in high schoo, guess it wasn't bad at all, considering I don't remember. People probably made fun of me, but I just ignored them at that point, so they probably found people that reacted.


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## neko-sennin (Jan 16, 2012)

HolyDemon said:


> Despite his justification, I feel that this kid reacts pretty badly to conflict.



Tell me, how do YOU react to being hunted like an animal?



HolyDemon said:


> What if next time, a boss, or a customer yelled at him and stressed him out, mentally and psychologically, would he have that control over his own actions, to not go after them for revenge and self-preservation? Workplace bullying can be just devastating as school bullying, just with not as much physical damage.



Um, yeah, because your boss is going to hunt you all over town, threaten and harass you on public transportation, and physically assault you when you try to run away. 

Might want to pick up the phone. Reality's used up all your voice mail space trying to get ahold of you.



HolyDemon said:


> Anyway, 2 wrongs don't make right.



Defending yourself against violence is never wrong. And stalking, harassing, terrorizing and physically assaulting people who've done you no harm is never right.

Nuno kept playing with fire, and he got burned. I feel bad for his mama, but those who live by violence seldom come to peaceful ends.


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## xpeed (Jan 16, 2012)

Those 12 stabs could be related to him suffering from the stress and fear he constantly gets from the bully.  Still, sad for the bully's parents, but nevertheless, bullying will always end up backfiring on you horribly.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 16, 2012)

xpeed said:


> Those 12 stabs could be related to him suffering from the stress and fear he constantly gets from the bully.  Still, sad for the bully's parents, but nevertheless, bullying will always end up backfiring on you horribly.


12 defensive wounds, only one really lucky stab was lethal. The bully brought it upon himself.


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## |)/-\\/\/|\| (Jan 16, 2012)

That's self defense. If you got assaulted you have the right to kill the assaulter.

Personally I'd make sure I'd kill the assaulter or heavily damage him/her to ensure he/she is disabled.


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## Mael (Jan 16, 2012)

HolyDemon said:


> Despite his justification, I feel that this kid reacts pretty badly to conflict.
> 
> What if next time, a boss, or a customer yelled at him and stressed him out, mentally and psychologically, would he have that control over his own actions, to not go after them for revenge and self-preservation? Workplace bullying can be just devastating as school bullying, just with not as much physical damage
> 
> Anyway, 2 wrongs don't make right



See this is why some forms of idealism and liberalism piss me off.  You have little relativisy understanding of the circumstances that led up to this, the natural fight or flight instinct of HUMAN BEINGS, the fact they are teens, the kid was going to get beat up which doesn't happen in the workplace from a boss, and that the bully didn't want to quit.  Little fucker had it coming and the fact you can't see that with your eyes closed and ears muffed screaming LALALAVIOLENCEISWRONGALLTHETIMELALALA is saddening.


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## Ippy (Jan 16, 2012)

100% agreed with the ruling.

The mother of the dead child has a right to grieve for her son, but ultimately she has to realize that her son would now be alive if he went to school to do the shit he's supposed to do: _fucking learn._  If he had kept his hands to himself and hadn't needlessly attacked the poor kid, on multiple occasions, the victim would not have felt the need to bring a knife with him to school.  Period.

And contrary to what Nunes' family is saying, this is not teaching kids that they can "do what they want", but that "not everyone who is bullied is going to just quietly put up with that shit".





HolyDemon said:


> Despite his justification, I feel that this kid reacts pretty badly to conflict.
> 
> What if next time, a boss, or a customer yelled at him and stressed him out, mentally and psychologically, would he have that control over his own actions, to not go after them for revenge and self-preservation? Workplace bullying can be just devastating as school bullying, just with not as much physical damage
> 
> Anyway, 2 wrongs don't make right


You're comparing a pissed off, non-physically abusive supervisor or customer to a recurring theme of physical abuse at the hands of a fellow teenager?


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 16, 2012)

Why do I get the feeling that they just let a killer go free?


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## Ippy (Jan 16, 2012)

Ryuzaki said:


> Why do I get the feeling that they just let a killer go free?


Because you don't know the difference between premeditation and self defense, and you've probably never been bullied to the point where fear and desperation sees you avoid the easiest, quickest, and most direct route to and from school to avoid getting beat up or killed for indeterminate reasons.


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## Mael (Jan 16, 2012)

Ryuzaki said:


> Why do I get the feeling that they just let a killer go free?



Because your definition of killer in regards to this situation is shit.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 16, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> Because you don't know the difference between premeditation and self defense, and you've probably never been bullied to the point where fear and desperation sees you avoid the easiest, quickest, and most direct route to and from school to avoid getting beat up or killed for indeterminate reasons.


I've been bullied quite a lot in my day, I was the only Muslim kid in an all-white High School Post 9/11. But I wouldn't blatantly go around stabbing anyone that pissed me off. Let alone 11 times.

I get that he was upset but he killed someone too, so is this going to be his solution to problems now? People tease him, he heads for his switchblade and guts them? 


Mael said:


> Because your definition of killer in regards to this situation is shit.


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## Ae (Jan 16, 2012)

Bullied or not, 11 times


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 16, 2012)

Masterpiece said:


> Bullied or not, 11 times


My point, exactly.


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## Random Stranger (Jan 16, 2012)

I am surprised of the many positive replies...


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## Mael (Jan 16, 2012)

Masterpiece said:


> Bullied or not, 11 times





Ryuzaki said:


> My point, exactly.



I guess you two are beyond human fight or flight instinct then, huh?

And Ryu, congrats.  Your cookie will come to you with 3-5 business days.  What part of "This kid was emotionally and physically bullied so much he felt he had to get a knife to protect himself and when assaulted his instinct took over" do you not understand?  Why is it so hard to grasp the relativity of the situation?  Why is it so hard to grasp that this kid TRIED flight and was cautiously hounded?  Why is it hard to grasp that he felt his life was in serious danger and civilian authorities did little to stop it?  Get relative, please.


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## siyrean (Jan 16, 2012)

teasing is not the same as being under constant threat of physical abuse. If this was a teen who finally defended himself against an abusive father when he was wailing on the kid, would you feel different?


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## Roman (Jan 16, 2012)

Ryuzaki said:


> My point, exactly.



It goes to show that something was wrong with the kid's head to begin with, and the bullying only served to trigger the worst part of it. I've gone through a lot of bullying too but never have I actually harmed a person in retaliation, most definitely never even thought of stabbing them. 11 times is pretty sadistic imho.


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## Ippy (Jan 16, 2012)

The number of times Saavedra stabbed him is irrelevant.

Disorientation from getting punched in the back of the head (potentially fatal blow) + mounting fear from two unsuccessful attempts to get away + possible inaccuracies with the "stabbing" accounts = perfectly justifiable.





Ryuzaki said:


> I've been bullied quite a lot in my day, I was the only Muslim kid in an all-white High School Post 9/11. But I wouldn't blatantly go around stabbing anyone that pissed me off. Let alone 11 times.


So you were physically abused on a repeated basis to the point where you either avoided the quickest and easiest route to school, or skipped school altogether just to avoid the bullying?



Ryuzaki said:


> I get that he was upset but he killed someone too, so is this going to be his solution to problems now? People tease him, he heads for his switchblade and guts them?


I'm looking at a man of straw atm.

No one mentioned teasing.  No one mentioned premeditation. 

We're talking about repeated instances of physical abuse, where Saavedra actually did everything in his power to avoid a confrontation with Nunes on a regular basis, including taking the long way to and from school or skipping it entirely.  

On the day it occurred, he even attempted to get off several stops before the aforementioned altercation was going to happen, and also tried to get away twice after he was attacked.

No sympathy at all for Nunes.  None.


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## Gunners (Jan 16, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> It goes to show that something was wrong with the kid's head to begin with, and the bullying only served to trigger the worst part of it. I've gone through a lot of bullying too but never have I actually harmed a person in retaliation, most definitely never even thought of stabbing them. 11 times is pretty sadistic imho.



There's nothing to suggest he gained pleasure from doing what needed to be done and what you would do in the situation is irrelevant. It's your problem alone if you choose not to exercise your right to protect yourself from harm.


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## Roman (Jan 16, 2012)

Gunners said:


> There's nothing to suggest he gained pleasure from doing what needed to be done and what you would do in the situation is irrelevant. It's your problem alone if you choose not to exercise your right to protect yourself from harm.



Dude.....



Stabbing someone *11 times* is NOT self defense.


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## Mael (Jan 16, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> Dude.....
> 
> 
> 
> Stabbing someone *11 times* is NOT self defense.



And you can confirm this...how?  Are you a psychic or psychologist?  Did the thought occur to you that adrenaline kicked in and the kid was in an outright panic?  I mean what is wrong with you?  Did you not read the story?


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## Roman (Jan 16, 2012)

Mael said:


> And you can confirm this...how?  Are you a psychic or psychologist?  Did the thought occur to you that adrenaline kicked in and the kid was in an outright panic?  I mean what is wrong with you?  Did you not read the story?



Bullying can drive someone to that point because it inspires great fear. Nuno may not even have meant to kill the kid or hurt him extensively, but inspire fear on the first hit. Bullies tend to take more joy from seeing fear in their victims than to actually fight them. The kid likely did go into a panic, but the fact remains that he would not go into the fight without a knife. In that respect, it was pre-meditated, and you do not go into a fight with a knife without considering the possibility of death happening. That's how it becomes something other than self-defense. For all the talk of him not wanting to fight and trying to get away, I'm wondering why it is that he brought a knife with him and expressed his panic by stabbing someone repeatedly rather than actually running away.


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## Mael (Jan 16, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> Bullying can drive someone to that point because it inspires great fear. Nuno may not even have meant to kill the kid. He likely did go into a panic, but the fact remains that the kid would not go into the fight without a knife. In that respect, it was pre-meditated, and you do not go into a fight with a knife without considering the possibility of death happening. For all the talk of him not wanting to fight and trying to get away, I'm wondering why it is that he brought a knife with him and expressed his panic by stabbing someone repeatedly.



Because when someone gets a mob and won't let a kid leave in peace, that knife becomes critical against said bully and said group of kids.  What, you thought he should have the power of fists?  Self defense IS NOT pre-meditated killing.  It's a response mechanism to a threat.


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## Roman (Jan 16, 2012)

Mael said:


> Because when someone gets a mob and won't let a kid leave in peace, that knife becomes critical against said bully and said group of kids.  What, you thought he should have the power of fists?  *Self defense IS NOT pre-meditated killing.  It's a response mechanism to a threat.*



I agree with you on this. My point is if the kid REALLY wanted to avoid a fight, he should've done something other than bring a knife to a fight. Such as talk to his parents about it, ask them to pick him up from school or talk to his teachers about it. There's other ways to avoid a fight, and taking matters into one's own hands is not the way to do it.


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## DisgustingIdiot (Jan 16, 2012)

And now you're blaming him for being attacked. Nice.

Don't bother Mael, he's beyond reason.


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## Roman (Jan 16, 2012)

Rob said:


> And now you're blaming him for being attacked. Nice.
> 
> Don't bother Mael, he's beyond reason.





I'm not blaming him for being attacked. I'm blaming him for handling it wrong.


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## Trueno (Jan 16, 2012)

Everybody's been a victim and a bully sometime in their life. If the bully tried to knife him then i'm all for the kid defending himself. But now he needs therapy and might go to juvie. He could've stood up to the bully or walk away and tell a teacher. Or maybe the bully pulled at the last thread the kid could take. Where was this anyways


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## Roman (Jan 16, 2012)

yuLeopard said:


> Everybody's been a victim and a bully sometime in their life. If the bully tried to knife him then i'm all for the kid defending himself. But now he needs therapy and might go to juvie. *He could've stood up to the bully or walk away and tell a teacher*. Or maybe the bully pulled at the last thread the kid could take. Where was this anyways



Thank you, that's exactly what I mean. At no point in this discussion did I blame the kid who was being bullied for being attacked. My point was that bringing a knife was not the solution if he wanted to AVOID a confrontation altogether. Telling his parents or a teacher before the entire thing went down would've probably saved both of them the trouble and in Nuno's case, his life.

This happened in Naples btw (not Italy, Florida)


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## butcher50 (Jan 16, 2012)

one less trashcan to feed.

the moment Nuno continued his torture of Jorge after the later has already yielded to his restrictions upon his life, Nuno signed off his own death-sentence.

should have known his fucking limit.


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## Mael (Jan 16, 2012)

yuLeopard said:


> Everybody's been a victim and a bully sometime in their life. If the bully tried to knife him then i'm all for the kid defending himself. But now he needs therapy and might go to juvie. He could've stood up to the bully or walk away and tell a teacher. Or maybe the bully pulled at the last thread the kid could take. Where was this anyways



Again with the naivete. 

This was OUTSIDE of school after the kid tried to get away twice.


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 16, 2012)

yuLeopard said:


> He could've stood up to the bully or walk away and tell a teacher.



Neither of which would have done anything.


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## Roman (Jan 16, 2012)

Mael said:


> Again with the naivete.
> 
> This was OUTSIDE of school after the kid tried to get away twice.



How about telling the teachers about the bullying before it escalated to what has happened? You're thinking only about the events that happened within the span of time the incident took place when things could've been done way before then.



Miss Goobette said:


> Neither of which would have done anything.



There's no way to know that for certain. Having a bit of faith and trust in teachers and authorities never hurt anyone. Not in my experience anyways.


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 16, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> There's no way to know that for certain. Having a bit of faith and trust in teachers and authorities never hurt anyone. Not in my experience anyways.



Maybe in my school, it would have actually worked. But I'm not going to think this applies to every school, or that the teachers will do anything about it. Anything outside of immediate transfer will just piss the bully off even more, and where do you think he's going to take that anger out on? The kid who ratted him out.


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## DisgustingIdiot (Jan 16, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> I'm not blaming him for being attacked. I'm blaming him for handling it wrong.



You're blaming him for not doing exactly what you would have done in order to avoid a fight but you're not blaming him for getting attacked? That is some high level dissonance right there.


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## spaZ (Jan 16, 2012)

Ok the kid stood up for himself but seriously he pretty much murdered the kid. If your 15 years old and you get stabbed just once your sure to go down and not fight back at all but for him to stab him like 12 times that's straight up revenge.


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## Gunners (Jan 16, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> Dude.....
> 
> 
> 
> Stabbing someone *11 times* is NOT self defense.


Putting 11 times in bold doesn't add justification to your claim.


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## ZE (Jan 16, 2012)

The good thing about this is imagining what the bully thought in his last moments. I guess he realized he got what deserved. I assure you he didn't think the kid that killed him was evil and the like. He surely knew he and his actions were the ones to blame.


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## Huey Freeman (Jan 16, 2012)

No different that you trying to rob a guy with a license weapon you were asking for it


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 16, 2012)

Mael said:


> I guess you two are beyond human fight or flight instinct then, huh?
> 
> And Ryu, congrats.  Your cookie will come to you with 3-5 business days.  What part of "This kid was emotionally and physically bullied so much he felt he had to get a knife to protect himself and when assaulted his instinct took over" do you not understand?  Why is it so hard to grasp the relativity of the situation?  Why is it so hard to grasp that this kid TRIED flight and was cautiously hounded?  Why is it hard to grasp that he felt his life was in serious danger and civilian authorities did little to stop it?  Get relative, please.


Not above it, but common sense says that stabbing someone once or twice should be enough to incapacitate them. 


Wibbly Wobbly said:


> So you were physically abused on a repeated basis to the point where you either avoided the quickest and easiest route to school, or skipped school altogether just to avoid the bullying?


Yes, for quite sometime, I'd say over about a good portion of my freshmen and all of my sophomore and junior years.


Wibbly Wobbly said:


> I'm looking at a man of straw atm.
> 
> No one mentioned teasing.  No one mentioned premeditation.
> 
> ...




I think you have misread me here, I don't really care how bad his life was or how bad Nunes was making it. Stabbing 11 times =/= slap on the wrist. He needs to be checked into a mental health facility and face possible juvenile charges for manslaughter.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 16, 2012)

Ryuzaki said:


> Not above it, but common sense says that stabbing someone once or twice should be enough to incapacitate them.


Dude, it was a pocket knife. Something that can only inflict superficial wounds. The kid was tortured and did everything possible to avoid conflict.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 16, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Dude, it was a pocket knife. Something that can only inflict superficial wounds. The kid was tortured and did everything possible to avoid conflict.


I don't know, perhaps I got wrong, if this happened in NYC, the kid with the knife would be in jail, it would be a massive media frenzy and the prosecutor would be trying to push for trial as an adult. 

I'm just calling it as I've seen it happen. Perhaps, NYC has fucked up laws.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 16, 2012)

Ryuzaki said:


> I don't know, perhaps I got wrong, if this happened in NYC, the kid with the knife would be in jail, it would be a massive media frenzy and the prosecutor would be trying to push for trial as an adult.
> 
> I'm just calling it as I've seen it happen. Perhaps, NYC has fucked up laws.


Given that most laws don't protect bullying victims, Ryuzaki, you'd be right. 



You need to see the kid was being beaten up when he fought back, and couldn't even get away when he tried. He did everything remotely possible to get away, but the bully just wanted to continue the torture.


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## Ciupy (Jan 16, 2012)

yuLeopard said:


> Everybody's been a victim and a bully sometime in their life. If the bully tried to knife him then i'm all for the kid defending himself. But now he needs therapy and might go to juvie. *He could've stood up to the bully or walk away and tell a teacher*. Or maybe the bully pulled at the last thread the kid could take. Where was this anyways



What the fuck does that even mean?

"Stood up to the bully"..really?

The bully had come with two of his friends to cause him bodily harm,especially after the bully had actually hit the kid in the back of the head,which is an extremely deadly thing to do even to trained fighters,not to mention a teenager.

So if you have liked for him to just receive a beating that could have potentially killed him,you don't deserve to live in a country in which every individual has the right to defend himself/herself.

If by "stood up to the bully" you mean face him hand to hand..well,the bully had brought two friends since that's how they usually play the game.

In a real life fight (and not what a great deal of posters on this forum imagine a trained fighter can do) if you face more than one opponent,you are usually fucked,unless you have a massive skill and size advantage on your part.

Most fights between beginners begin with either a kick,a flurry of punches of varying effectivenes and then it's tackle and down you go and you get your shit beaten out of you by the attacker and his friend/s.

Also,for the guy that keeps bolding the "11 times" part..

In the heat of the fight,a lot of things are blurry,the adrenaline and the rush kicking in and just overpowering anything else and it's one of the reasons fighters keep swinging at their opponents a short while after they have fallen,especially in heated matches.

You just want to see the fucker stop twitching.

I doubt that in a serious life-or-death situation even professional fighters could count or restrain how many blows they would deal to an opponent.


......


Long story short,it was self-defense.


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## neko-sennin (Jan 16, 2012)

spaZ said:


> If your 15 years old and you get stabbed just once your sure to go down...



Yeah, well, Nuno didn't "go down" or back off, he continued attacking him, and exhorting his companions to attack him, as well, so Jorge had every right to keep stabbing, and the rest of your post becomes irrelevant.



Yoko Takeo said:


> I agree with you on this. My point is if the kid REALLY wanted to avoid a fight, he should've done something other than bring a knife to a fight.



He already did. He let the asshole control all of his comings and goings right up to the afternoon of Nuno's ambush.

He didn't bring a knife "to a fight" -- he brought it as a last resort, and did everything he could to avoid _using it_ right up until they cornered him.



Yoko Takeo said:


> Such as talk to his parents about it, ask them to pick him up from school



So now Nuno's allowed to run Jorge's _parents'_ lives too? 

Maybe Jorge's parents actually WORK for a living, and can't be there at 3:30 on the dot every day of the week. They were already letting him skip school to hide from him, for fuck's sake.

As what point does this asshole finally have enough of a stranglehold on Jorge's daily life? Jorge has as much right to walk down the street and ride buses unmolested as anyone else in this country.



Yoko Takeo said:


> or talk to his teachers about it. There's other ways to avoid a fight,



And we already know the bus driver knew what was happening, so we already know the school was doing jack shit to reign Nuno in. 



Yoko Takeo said:


> and taking matters into one's own hands is not the way to do it.



There were no other hands left to take matters into, when you're all alone on the street somebody's orders his posse to attack you.



Yoko Takeo said:


> You're thinking only about the events that happened within the span of time the incident took place...



The span of time the incident took place was easily justification for deadly force: alone, hunted, outnumbered, and already under attack. How it got to that point ceases to be relevant once you're already there. Nuno had absolutely no justification for what he did.


Thanks for the visual aide, SuperSaiyaMan. It will help me clear up one more point:

Aside from a precision strike to a handful of vital points, a knife stab or slash, even with something more formidable than a whittling knife, will not bring someone down instantly. Knife wounds bleed out, and even a fatal wound may not be readily apparent unless it's a real gusher. Nuno had the misfortune of suffering 2 low-probability shots, and 10 cosmetic flesh wounds. If Jorge was serious about taking somebody down "in one shot" with a knife, he'd need at least a couple more inches on that blade, enough to cut deeper into vital organs, and a working knowledge of where to strike, or else he would have needed to slit his Nuno's throat.


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## Louis-954 (Jan 16, 2012)

> Not above it, but common sense says that *stabbing someone once or twice should be enough to incapacitate them.*


And if it's not? Then what? Are you gonna tell him to "hold on" so you can put the knife down and fight hand to hand like a real man against a bully 2yrs older and physically stronger than you? Or are you going to keep stabbing? Any sane person would keep stabbing.


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## Baroxio (Jan 16, 2012)

*11 times?* 

I mean, I hate bullying and all, and I do think the victims should always fight back, but I'm totally not buying that this was all self defense. Especially when he showed two students his knife prior to that. It looks like premeditated murder with a premeditated excuse.

Perhaps I overestimate the intelligence of bullies in general, but if somebody has a knife and they are fighting you, *and you are actually stabbed*, I don't see a reason why you would continue the fight. I can't imagine the bully was stupid enough to be the one to continue a fight where he was the one unarmed, and taking damage.

I can accept it if the "victim" stabbed the bully a few times before the bully got the hint that he should GTFO, but 11? 2 of which were fatal wounds? I call bullshit on that.

A single stab is enough to severely hamper his ability to fight admist pain and blood loss, to say nothing of whatever organ may be hit.

But I just can't believe he was totally at fault if he got stabbed 11 times. Maybe I just haven't been in enough knife fights, but I can't wrap my head around such a ridiculous number.

I mean, I can accept 5 or 6 times in the heat of battle, but 11 sounds like way too much.

Plus, this bully is a coward. He had to bring his friends to gang up on somebody. He strikes me as the type to fear the bodily harm a knife can bring, and stand down if he sees it. But again, maybe I'm just overestimating his intelligence.


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## Buskuv (Jan 16, 2012)

So 6 is arbitrarily acceptable, but 11 isn't?

Marvelous.


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## Cjones (Jan 16, 2012)

Because it's not like the kid could have just utterly snapped or anything or that the bully could have keep hounding him even after he tried to run.

The self-defense was very well justified. It's sad someone had to die, but it happened.


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## Rima (Jan 16, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> 100% agreed with the ruling.
> 
> The mother of the dead child has a right to grieve for her son, but ultimately she has to realize that her son would now be alive if he went to school to do the shit he's supposed to do: _fucking learn._  If he had kept his hands to himself and hadn't needlessly attacked the poor kid, on multiple occasions, the victim would not have felt the need to bring a knife with him to school.  Period.
> 
> And contrary to what Nunes' family is saying, this is not teaching kids that they can "do what they want", but that "not everyone who is bullied is going to just quietly put up with that shit".



Agreed. **


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## Hero (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't know where I stand on this issue.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 16, 2012)

Baroxio said:


> *11 times?*
> 
> I mean, I hate bullying and all, and I do think the victims should always fight back, but I'm totally not buying that this was all self defense. Especially when he showed two students his knife prior to that. It looks like premeditated murder with a premeditated excuse.
> 
> ...


Did you not see the knife in question? Did you not see that the bully had initiated the conflict when he had done everything to avoid him?


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## Ippy (Jan 16, 2012)

"he could have gone to a teacher"

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

They going to give him bodyguards 24/7?  Turrets outside of his front door?





> Not above it, but common sense says that stabbing someone once or twice should be enough to incapacitate them.


"common sense" is a logical fallacy.

What empirical evidence do you have that suggests that only one or two stabs should be enough to incapacitate someone?  First off, it's flat out wrong.  While in a physical confrontation, with adrenaline pumping and while acting on instinct, someone getting stabbed _will not_ just quit right off the bat unless the stabber aimed right for the neck from the first slash or they were stabbed with something larger than a little pocket knife.

Stop pulling smaller, arbitrary numbers out of your ass as if they're more socially acceptable.

Again....

disorientation from getting hit in the back of the head + mounting fear from repeated attempts to retreat + small pocket knife with little stopping power = understandable need to stab a dozen times



> Yes, for quite sometime, I'd say over about a good portion of my freshmen and all of my sophomore and junior years.


So you were followed getting off on the wrong stop just so bullies could physically attack you?

Due to your habit of mistaking "teasing" and "physical abuse", I need to confirm that we are on the same page here...

I'm not talking about Bin Laden jokes.  I'm talking about walking home with black eyes and limps.


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## Louis-954 (Jan 16, 2012)

> Perhaps I overestimate the intelligence of bullies in general, but if somebody has a knife and they are fighting you, and you are actually stabbed, I don't see a reason why you would continue the fight. I can't imagine the bully was stupid enough to be the one to continue a fight where he was the one unarmed, and taking damage.


You do realize that he the bully was on his back(Jorge was face down on the floor) and the punches kept raining down as he jabbed his knife from up under his armpit into the bully right? Why don't you educate yourself on the specifics of the case before you spout your nonsensical moralfag bs? He didn't even kill him on the spot, when the bully finally grew a brain and got up Jorge ran away instead of continuing to stab/fight. In Nuno's last moments he told his friends to "go get him".



> But I just can't believe he was totally at fault if he got stabbed 11 times. Maybe I just haven't been in enough knife fights, but I can't wrap my head around such a ridiculous number.


He had Jorge pinned and kept hitting him as he stabbed. 10 of the stabs were superficial, he only stopped after he got hit with two fatal stabs, after which he ran away.


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## HolyDemon (Jan 16, 2012)

Wibbly Wobbly said:


> common sense" is a logical fallacy.



It depends on what system of logic we're employing. Just because your logic is different than his, and you haven't reached agreement on a common logic, doesn't mean his is false.


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## Mael (Jan 16, 2012)

HolyDemon said:


> It depends on what system of logic we're employing. Just because your logic is different than his, and you haven't reached agreement on a common logic, doesn't mean his is false.



Sounds like a cop-out to me.  

Face it, you're being naive towards what is typically human nature when faced with continued physical threats/assault from not just one person.  It's the shit that you and others spew about "finding an alternative" when they've likely been exhausted that makes me stop feeling bad for bleeding hearts.


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## Gunners (Jan 17, 2012)




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## Lina Inverse (Jan 17, 2012)

if I ever have a kid, I'm gonna tell him to bring a knife for protection

if my kid's a girl though, I'm gonna tell her to bring a shotgun and wear steel-toe'ed boots


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## Draffut (Jan 17, 2012)

> "Brodie?s decision is not setting a good example for children or adults,? said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno?s mother. ?I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another innocent family.?



But I wouldn't mind it happening to another not at all innocent child.  Does the bullied child have to wait till he's paralyzed to defend himself?


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## Mael (Jan 17, 2012)

> "Brodie’s decision is not setting a good example for children or adults,” said Kim Maxwell, Dylan Nuno’s mother. “I truly do not want this type of tragedy to happen to another innocent family.”



Or how about raising kids not to be bullies and keeping better track too?  I'm sure something was said once or twice in the past.


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## aiyanah (Jan 17, 2012)

wut a champ


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## Jin-E (Jan 17, 2012)

My personal view on this depends on what the alleged bully did to his victim. If it was simply verbal taunting and the occasional slapping, then this guy should definitely be punished for the murder, even if given a lenient sentence. However, if he was an total cunt and terrorized the guy day in and day out to such an extent that his life was in jeopardy, then i'd agree with this decision.


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## Buskuv (Jan 17, 2012)

It is amazing how hard it is for people to read.


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## Jin-E (Jan 17, 2012)

^ Was that a dig towards me? I was talking about their day to day relations, not just the event immediatedly prior to the stabbing.


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## Buskuv (Jan 17, 2012)

But it explains it in the article.


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## Ippy (Jan 17, 2012)

HolyDemon said:


> It depends on what system of logic we're employing. Just because your logic is different than his, and you haven't reached agreement on a common logic, doesn't mean his is false.


Uhhh... no it doesn't.

"common sense" = a form of argumentum ad populum or appeal to belief



Jin-E said:


> My personal view on this depends on what the alleged bully did to his victim. If it was simply verbal taunting and the occasional slapping, then this guy should definitely be punished for the murder, even if given a lenient sentence. However, if he was an total cunt and terrorized the guy day in and day out to such an extent that his life was in jeopardy, then i'd agree with this decision.


Did you fucking read the article???


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## teddy (Jan 17, 2012)

If the price of excessive bullying isn't clicking now, I don't even know.


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## Gunners (Jan 17, 2012)

Even if he never bullied him in the past, the kid would be justified in stabbing him.


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## Jin-E (Jan 17, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> But it explains it in the article.



Ah, yeah now i see it. 



Wibbly Wobbly said:


> Uhhh... no it doesn't.
> 
> "common sense" = a form of argumentum ad populum or appeal to belief
> 
> Did you fucking read the article???



Dude, what the hells up with that reaction? I managed to overlook one sentence in the article, big whoop.


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## Violent-nin (Jan 17, 2012)

Man kids are so fucking dumb.


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## sparkykandy (Jan 17, 2012)

Read the court report that someone linked, and according to that, Saavedra did not pull out the knife and retaliate until after he had received several punches and was feeling light-headed.

I'm pretty sure at that point he was thinking if he did not do something, he would die.  

Anyways, the court report also mentions that Saavedra tried retreating several times.

Either way, I agree with the judge.  The kid was put into a 'fight or flight' situation, and since he couldn't flee, he choose to fight.


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## Darklyre (Jan 19, 2012)

The thread title is misleading, anyway. "Gets away with it" implies that the kid actually did something _wrong_.


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## butcher50 (Jan 19, 2012)

Ryuzaki said:


> Not above it, but common sense says that stabbing someone once or twice should be enough to incapacitate them.



one or two stabs by a small, shitty knife like that wouldn't been enough to SEND A MESSAGE.

the boy had to send a message and that message had to be smeared in blood to be understood for GOOD.

punching/kicking/knifing the bullies just strictly enough to get them off you is pointless if they resume their bullying routine the next day.

you gotta give them a big and bloody enough BEAT DOWN to make them properly cool the fuck down.


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