# Chrollo Lucilfer (HxH) vs Sasuke Uchiha (Naruto Shippuden)



## Sierra117 (Dec 31, 2018)

Chrollo is same state he fought Hisoka in Heaven's Arena



Sasuke is Hebi (early Shippuden)



Stipulations: Genjutsu and Kirin banned. Sasuke obviously doesn't have Mangekyou

Round 1: Sasuke can't use curse-mark.
Round 2: Sasuke can use curse-mark, but Chrollo's speed is equalized.

Prep time: none
Knowledge: none
Mindset: In-character.
Distance: 20m

Location: Heaven's Arena (full crowd)





> my personal analysis: Chrollo is incredibly deceptive and utilizes the crowd to hide and attack when the opponent is off-guard. No moral concern for the state of the crowd if they are of valuable asset to him. His speed is relatively fast and H2H and striking power is strong enough to break bones/cause internal bleeding. He can control people like mindless puppets and even implement a spell on them causing them to explode. Can also make a puppet look like him.
> 
> Sasuke has very good analyzing capability and has high battle-wit. His taijutsu is formidable and speed as-well. His morals will probably keep him from killing innocents unless he realizes he has to. Good swordsman, and can maneuver an overwhelming crowd with finesse. He has skill with lightning-style and fire-style. Access to common ninja-tools


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 31, 2018)

Chrollo gets shanked.


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## Dr. White (Dec 31, 2018)

What is early pt. 2 speed? Sasuke can get ganked by a needle prick or caught in fun fun cloth if he isn’t careful. Sauce has the obvious cqc advantage but so did hisoka and chrollo showed what he could do vs the zoldyck’s so he’s no slouch. If chrollo can get things like indoor fish and the puppet fest going it might be hard but sharingan would help out alot here IMO.

Close match that depends on speed.


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## Sierra117 (Dec 31, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> What is early pt. 2 speed? Sasuke can get ganked by a needle prick or caught in fun fun cloth if he isn’t careful. Sauce has the obvious cqc advantage but so did hisoka and chrollo showed what he could do vs the zoldyck’s so he’s no slouch. If chrollo can get things like indoor fish and the puppet fest going it might be hard but sharingan would help out alot here IMO.
> 
> Close match that depends on speed.



I'd assume he could dodge/avoid needles considering he was able to (somewhat) do so against Haku who was throwing many amounts more and he only had 1 tamoe sharingan and was a kid. His visual prowess was shown to be much greater when he fought Naruto in VotE and even more when he fought Deidara. I personally don't think he'd be getting hit by a needle unless he gets fatigued or distracted.


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## Dr. White (Dec 31, 2018)

Robo said:


> I'd assume he could dodge/avoid needles considering he was able to (somewhat) do so against Haku who was throwing many amounts more and he only had 1 tamoe sharingan and was a kid. His visual prowess was shown to be much greater when he fought Naruto in VotE and even more when he fought Deidara. I personally don't think he'd be getting hit by a needle unless he gets fatigued or distracted.


I agree which is why yhe speed matters so much because it will inform as to if chrollo can get his traps/hatsus going or not.


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## Divell (Jan 1, 2019)

Sasuke babyshakes. He uses Kirin and calls it a day.


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## Sierra117 (Jan 1, 2019)

Divell said:


> He uses Kirin and calls it a day.



It's almost like people don't even read the thread


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## John Wayne (Jan 1, 2019)

He's HS+ early part 2, around mach 70 so he's actually faster than Chrollo.


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## Divell (Jan 1, 2019)

Robo said:


> It's almost like people don't even read the thread


OP doesnt says anything about Kirin.


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## Kaaant (Jan 1, 2019)

Literal fodder in naruto are KT

Chrollo couldn’t even touch him unless something has changed.

Plus sasuke’s own hax


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 1, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Literal fodder in naruto are KT
> 
> Chrollo couldn’t even touch him unless something has changed.
> 
> Plus sasuke’s own hax


Part 1 base Naruto is in the kilotons physically

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 1, 2019)

Chrollo convinces Sauce to commit suicide


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## Dr. White (Jan 1, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Literal fodder in naruto are KT
> 
> Chrollo couldn’t even touch him unless something has changed.
> 
> Plus sasuke’s own hax


Lot has changed since Chaos upgrades.

Killua casually tank a 3kt blast to the face.

Youpi's cratering is town+ to City+, and given I re-read the chapter and  seems  the , that puts High end Nen stuff from Hunters into City level. 


Sasuke does have the speed advantage in scenario 1, but it's mach 30 to mach 70 so it's slight.


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## Kaaant (Jan 1, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Lot has changed since Chaos upgrades.
> 
> Killua casually tank a 3kt blast to the face.
> 
> ...



When did killua tank something like that?

Also how much of that stuff is applicable to chrollo?

Town level is shit that sasuke can put down casually. He’s got summons and shit like manda that can take C0 when deidara’s shitty bombs could straight up flip turtle island over.


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## Dr. White (Jan 1, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> When did killua tank something like that?


Chaos calced the bombadier beetle explosion to 3kt, and that was the explosion Killua took point blank.



> Also how much of that stuff is applicable to chrollo?


Alot. Chaos made a bunch of posts explaining how it was all linked. Morel's smokey cage tanked the blast of Youpi's rage blast and kept the upper level where he was fighting Pouf completely intact. So his nen potency was crazy. Zeno who has some of the most potent nen (his dragons were a threat to RG despite being scattered into hundreds of pieces) was unable to kill Chrollo with a point blank dragon blast/nen blast in his fight vs chrollo w/ Silva. 



> Town level is shit that sasuke can put down casually. He’s got summons and shit like manda that can take C0 when deidara’s shitty bombs could straight up flip turtle island over.


I agree, but Chrollo has a higher end output bar maybe Raikiri, and I don't see Chrollo getting into any CqC with Sasuke given he doesn't know much about Sasuke. 

Manda only took a split second of C0 which is why he wasn't incinerated, and he still died. The turtle flip would also likely cuck Manda. Manda was handily taken care of by Pt. 1 Tsunade so he shouldn't be scaling passed her.


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## Kaaant (Jan 1, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Chaos calced the bombadier beetle explosion to 3kt, and that was the explosion Killua took point blank.



Fair enough. Was this in base?



Dr. White said:


> Alot. Chaos made a bunch of posts explaining how it was all linked. Morel's smokey cage tanked the blast of Youpi's rage blast and kept the upper level where he was fighting Pouf completely intact. So his nen potency was crazy. Zeno who has some of the most potent nen (his dragons were a threat to RG despite being scattered into hundreds of pieces) was unable to kill Chrollo with a point blank dragon blast/nen blast in his fight vs chrollo w/ Silva



Ok cool. So where would chrollo be sitting exactly then?



Dr. White said:


> I agree, but Chrollo has a higher end output bar maybe Raikiri, and I don't see Chrollo getting into any CqC with Sasuke given he doesn't know much about Sasuke.



He is the sort of guy to stay back so fair enough. 



Dr. White said:


> Manda only took a split second of C0 which is why he wasn't incinerated, and he still died. The turtle flip would also likely cuck Manda. Manda was handily taken care of by Pt. 1 Tsunade so he shouldn't be scaling passed her.



Tsunade is island level by virtue of being stronger than the raikage who could take off the eight tails horn and could deal damage to naruto so I’m not surprised she can shit on manda.

 I just looked at the fight and manda was summoned *after* the explosion was started so I imagine it was a significant portion that hit him. If it wasn’t it means sasuke had to summon manda, genjutsu him, jump inside him, then teleport away so sasuke might wind up being much faster than he is right now. Especially if the bomb is anything like real c4


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## Dr. White (Jan 1, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Fair enough. Was this in base?


yep.




> Ok cool. So where would chrollo be sitting exactly then?


The high end of the chaos calc, mid end at worst so 4 to 18 Mt. 




> Tsunade is island level


Nah. Raikage could only hurt the Bjuu with his Nail attack which is concentrated Raiton >>> Tsunade. His shield also is >>> her durability as he took an FRS and survived, and Tsunade already said she couldn't heal that level of damage. Tsunade is city level for busting lower form Susanoo.



> by virtue of being stronger than the raikage who could take off the eight tails horn and could deal damage to naruto so I’m not surprised she can shit on manda.


See above.



> I just looked at the fight and manda was summoned *after* the explosion was started so I imagine it was a significant portion that hit him. If it wasn’t it means sasuke had to summon manda, genjutsu him, jump inside him, then teleport away so sasuke might wind up being much faster than he is right now. Especially if the bomb is anything like real c4


Someone in the high hypersonic range should be capable of doing that tbh. Regardless Diedara's highest calc'd stuff is still City+, and Manda only took a portion which would be some degree of city level.

Sasuke could also potentially hand him right over to Chrollo with Black Voice being in his possession. 

Imho this fight is decided very early on. If sauce can lock him into the stage it's GG unless Chrollo decides to go Super Saiyan lol. But if Chrollo makes it to the crowd, the fuckery begins and someone as smart of Hisoka was done in, and Chrollo has even more traps like indoor fish and fun fun cloth.


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## Kaaant (Jan 1, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Nah. Raikage could only hurt the Bjuu with his Nail attack which is concentrated Raiton >>> Tsunade. His shield also is >>> her durability as he took an FRS and survived, and Tsunade already said she couldn't heal that level of damage. Tsunade is city level for busting lower form Susanoo.



I was referring to A btw not the third as I’m pretty sure he took a horn off. Naruto even admits that A could knock him out, and tsunade is stronger than him. It’s not relevant to manda anyway. 



Dr. White said:


> Someone in the high hypersonic range should be capable of doing that tbh. Regardless Diedara's highest calc'd stuff is still City+, and Manda only took a portion which would be some degree of city level.
> 
> Sasuke could also potentially hand him right over to Chrollo with Black Voice being in his possession.
> 
> Imho this fight is decided very early on. If sauce can lock him into the stage it's GG unless Chrollo decides to go Super Saiyan lol. But if Chrollo makes it to the crowd, the fuckery begins and someone as smart of Hisoka was done in, and Chrollo has even more traps like indoor fish and fun fun cloth.



If it is city level it’s more powerful than chrollo and dei literally did it on his last legs. and sasuke in a state where he could barely stand up avoided it.

 It really should be looked at in depth tbh considering it’s radius alone is 10km and it expanded to its full height which is much bigger than that, and probably didn’t even take longer than a few seconds to expand to its full height as we see it reach it in the next panel. Sasuke reacted to it after the explosion began and was able to do multiple things to escape it despite being at ground zero. 

I find the hax debates more interesting than dc though. Sasuke has plenty of shit to let him deal with crowds like we saw him emit electricity to deal with town level characters. Not to mention he can spam clones or summons if he really had to.


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## Sierra117 (Jan 1, 2019)

Sasuke's no-bullshit policy might be a problem to Chrollo. If Chrollo takes too much time to get his book out and start his magic show, Sasuke might just try and interrupt him before he can attempt anything like how he did with Deidara and Naruto, whereas Hisoka is far too playful and horny to end the fun soon. As @Dr. White said, his first big push would be to get into the audience. Maybe if he utilizes the proctor, he could buy a little bit of time as Sasuke is confused by what's going on.


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## Kaaant (Jan 1, 2019)

blitzed and destroyed Juudara

Reminder part one naruto can make this many clones easily. Who even back then was less efficient at the technique than kid sasuke. 

Sasuke won’t be overwhelmed.


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## Sierra117 (Jan 1, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> blitzed and destroyed Juudara
> 
> Reminder part one naruto can make this many clones easily. Who even back then was less efficient at the technique than kid sasuke.
> 
> Sasuke won’t be overwhelmed.



Hmm, but how will he deal with exploding puppets?


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## Kaaant (Jan 1, 2019)




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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

They aren’t alive though, and the heads need to be taken off or the limbs all chopped. It’s not about the puppets themselves, rather the fact that they can explode, or mark sasuke with sun/moon seals. Finding chrollo with a swapped appearence will be hard even with sharingan, and then you also factor in that one prick and sasuke is mind fucked, and ephemeral things like indoor fish also attacking him. Chrollo getting in the audience spells trouble for sauce.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

I mean sasuke not only has a speed advantage but can spam clones in bigger numbers than part one naruto or kakashi.

blitzed and destroyed Juudara

Hitting him is highly unlikely. Plus summons, ninja tools, and other jutsu to give him a ranged advantage.


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> I mean sasuke not only has a speed advantage but can spam clones in bigger numbers than part one naruto or kakashi.
> 
> Link removed
> 
> Hitting him is highly unlikely.


He barely has the advantage. It’s not even 3x.

Sasuke can’t use clones and as you see in that panel spamming clones is a waste of chakra. 

He has sharingan and raiton/katon so the clones bomboarding him isn’t a problem, it’s like I said literally touching him for a moment or blowing up next to sasuke, all while he is trying to dodge ghost fish and the odd prods with black voice.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

It’s x3 plus sharingan tho. 



Dr. White said:


> Sasuke can’t use clones and as you see in that panel spamming clones is a waste of chakra.



What do you mean he can’t use clones? Yes he can

It’s not a waste when kakashi can do it when almost out of chakra. 



Dr. White said:


> it’s like I said literally touching him for a moment or blowing up next to sasuke, all while he is trying to dodge ghost fish and the odd prods with black voice.



This is all unlikely to ever occur though. Sasuke has so much that can make him hard to hit.


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## Sierra117 (Jan 2, 2019)

when Ebisu lectured Naruto on chakra control, though he said he wasn't as efficient with is as Sakura. Of course this was early part 1. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't use it, ultimately. Since we've never seen him take a liking to the jutsu. He seems to beat clones up and mock the caster for using it more than anything, lol. I would guess partially because of arrogance in thinking he could take them all on. Which in his case, he's definitely held up that taunt.

One feat I'd like to throw out there (no pun intended) is the fact that Chrollo can  at a falling target across a stadium like they're snow-balls.


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## John Wayne (Jan 2, 2019)

Throwing humans at high speed is small potatoes to both of them lol, that's unlikely to do anything. Besides Sasuke is mostly a mid range fighter anyway so he wouldn't have any troubles playing a range game with Chrollo.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jan 2, 2019)

I'm not sure why White keeps mentioning Indoor Fish as if it's anything relevant. It's a basically useless ability other than for torture. The fish just eat you and you're alive until they're gone. They don't ignore durability.

CT's reasoning behind the whole "Zeno is a threat" thing with Dragon Dive is rather flimsy even if the thing about Smokey Jail is a bit better.

Sasuke can abuse the crowd setting even better than Chrollo tbh. He's got Henge, Kawarimi, Bunshins, etc. Not to mention AoE Katon and his Raiton moves. The Sharingan makes the superior speed and reactions Sasuke has here even worse.


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## Sierra117 (Jan 2, 2019)

Linking this for reference, but since it's anime, speed isn't necessarily always consistent with manga due to animation choices. But this gives a good look on fighting style and awareness for Chrollo. Also if poison makes contact, it's an issue.


Personally I have no bias in this and I don't think they are both exactly equals. I'm just thinking this would be an amazing fight, or theoretically at the very least lol. Sasuke's sharingan and reflexes would be a huge advantage, there's no doubt.


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I'm not sure why White keeps mentioning Indoor Fish as if it's anything relevant. It's a basically useless ability other than for torture. The fish just eat you and you're alive until they're gone. They don't ignore durability.
> 
> CT's reasoning behind the whole "Zeno is a threat" thing with Dragon Dive is rather flimsy even if the thing about Smokey Jail is a bit better.
> 
> Sasuke can abuse the crowd setting even better than Chrollo tbh. He's got Henge, Kawarimi, Bunshins, etc. Not to mention AoE Katon and his Raiton moves. The Sharingan makes the superior speed and reactions Sasuke has here even worse.


Why would indoor fish be irrelevant? It still does damage lol. The damage doesn’t happen until the seals broken, that doesn’t mean sasuke can just ignore them taking chomps out of him?

I mean not really it’s outright stated by pitou that he is a threat to them. In a straight 1v1 he’s lose because they have better stats across the board but his nen potency clearly put fear in pitou, and yeah the morel thing is pretty clear cut.

No he can’t. Sun and moon markers/exploding puppets/conduits for mind control/people for chrollo to switch appearence with > anything sasuke can do with the crowd. If you mean sasuke can sweep the crowd easier than chrollo than ok but that’s not really relevant here unless you think no knowledge sasuke whipes the crowd out at match start for no reason.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 2, 2019)

good fight 

chrollo won’t go down easy and will make things extremely annoying before he dies though


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jan 2, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Why would indoor fish be irrelevant? It still does damage lol. The damage doesn’t happen until the seals broken, that doesn’t mean sasuke can just ignore them taking chomps out of him?
> 
> I mean not really it’s outright stated by pitou that he is a threat to them. In a straight 1v1 he’s lose because they have better stats across the board but his nen potency clearly put fear in pitou, and yeah the morel thing is pretty clear cut.
> 
> No he can’t. Sun and moon markers/exploding puppets/conduits for mind control/people for chrollo to switch appearence with > anything sasuke can do with the crowd. If you mean sasuke can sweep the crowd easier than chrollo than ok but that’s not really relevant here unless you think no knowledge sasuke whipes the crowd out at match start for no reason.


It's the equivalent of carnivorous fish in the air trying to bite at you. It's completely worthless. Why would he just be standing there letting the fish eat him? He'd probably shatter them with a single hit or something.

Smokey Jail is a different sort of move, though with its own special properties. In general the RG are overprotective and Zeno as a legit nen user put Pitou on guard just as any of the invasion force would put him on guard. I just don't put too much stock in that particular interpretation is all. I'm not saying Zeno wouldn't be able to put up any kind of fight either.

Sasuke at this point in time has no qualms about killing people. In fact around the point where he was being reintroduced he's shown fighting a few dozen likely chuunin tier people at once and he's unharmed and has killed them all. You really think swarming fodder have any sort of chance fighting him when he's thousands of times faster? That's on top of everything else in his arsenal even if some easy win techs are restricted here. Chrollo isn't prepped in this scenario either. Sun and Moon is basically a less effective exploding Kage Bunshin and that's only after two different Hatsu are used.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 2, 2019)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Sasuke at this point in time has no qualms about killing people. In fact around the point where he was being reintroduced he's shown fighting a few dozen likely chuunin tier people at once and he's unharmed and has killed them all


Nahh he was avoiding killing people at this point still. There’s the panel of Orochi scolding him for taking out all the Sound Shinobi but refusing to kill any of them. Then against Deidara, a mass murderer, Sasuke avoided his vitals and didn’t want to kill him. He didn’t stop giving a shit till after the Killer B fight


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## Sierra117 (Jan 2, 2019)

@MusubiKazesaru


@Jackalinthebox I'm actually pretty convinced Sasuke aimed for the kill multiple times throughout that fight. Like when he tried piercing him with Chidori before finding out it was a clone.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jan 2, 2019)

I actually remembered that scene as him killing them, but it kind of just further shows his skill since it'd probably be easier to do kill them.


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> It's the equivalent of carnivorous fish in the air trying to bite at you. It's completely worthless. Why would he just be standing there letting the fish eat him? He'd probably shatter them with a single hit or something.
> 
> Smokey Jail is a different sort of move, though with its own special properties. In general the RG are overprotective and Zeno as a legit nen user put Pitou on guard just as any of the invasion force would put him on guard. I just don't put too much stock in that particular interpretation is all. I'm not saying Zeno wouldn't be able to put up any kind of fight either.
> 
> Sasuke at this point in time has no qualms about killing people. In fact around the point where he was being reintroduced he's shown fighting a few dozen likely chuunin tier people at once and he's unharmed and has killed them all. You really think swarming fodder have any sort of chance fighting him when he's thousands of times faster? That's on top of everything else in his arsenal even if some easy win techs are restricted here. Chrollo isn't prepped in this scenario either. Sun and Moon is basically a less effective exploding Kage Bunshin and that's only after two different Hatsu are used.


No but they are yet another thing sasuke will have to watch out for over the course of this fight and with the amount of one hit knockout power has as well as being able to do so through proxies, means the more shit sasuke has to think about and counter, the lower his chances of successfully doing so become.

No it’s not. It’s a manipulation technique. Is it higher end for morel? Yes, but nothing states it isn’t just his nen owering the smoke like usual, and morel athatpoint was at like 35% of his power.

Nah, sasuke specifically didn’t kill them. Once again the puppets chrollo makes aren’t humans. They will keep coming until physically disabled and the point of it is to hide and cause explosions/ simpl make contact with sasuke to spread sun and moon seals. Him being able to style on them means little becauae the goal is not for the clones to beat up sasuke.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jan 2, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> No but they are yet another thing sasuke will have to watch out for over the course of this fight and with the amount of one hit knockout power has as well as being able to do so through proxies, means the more shit sasuke has to think about and counter, the lower his chances of successfully doing so become.
> 
> No it’s not. It’s a manipulation technique. Is it higher end for morel? Yes, but nothing states it isn’t just his nen owering the smoke like usual, and morel athatpoint was at like 35% of his power.
> 
> Nah, sasuke specifically didn’t kill them. Once again the puppets chrollo makes aren’t humans. They will keep coming until physically disabled and the point of it is to hide and cause explosions/ simpl make contact with sasuke to spread sun and moon seals. Him being able to style on them means little becauae the goal is not for the clones to beat up sasuke.


Those explosions sure as hell aren't a OHKO. It's debatable that they'd do anything as is. Literally what is the Sharingan?

Morel was talking about his overall condition, it didn't have to do with his nen, but rather the state of himself after his recent work. He was running at low efficiency but that doesn't mean his techniques are just plain worse.

Good for them. He can easily replace himself with them and cause all sorts of easy fuck ups and the same goes for any clone technique and they can't even get close consider the speed difference and you're still going with this whole idea that Chrollo gets all of this prep time for this match. He doesn't.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

Sasuke also has no problem avoiding deidara’s point blank bombs. Plus his clones, his summons, his long range jutsu and even simple shit like smoke bombs make me very doubtful he’s getting hit


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## Adamant soul (Jan 2, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> What do you mean he can’t use clones? Yes he can
> 
> It’s not a waste when kakashi can do it when almost out of chakra.



Sasuke only has access to the basic Clone jutsu, which only generates illusionary clones (See Sakura vs Ino), not solid bodies that can actually fight (which is what the Shadow Clone jutsu that Kakashi and Naruto use does).

The Clone Jutsu and the Shadow Clone Jutsu are two different things, ones a basic technique that everyone knows, the other is a Jonin level forbidden technique Naruto is only able to perform because he has ridiculously high chakra in the first place.

I don't recall Sasuke ever creating physical clones or being stated to be capable of it.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

I know what the difference is. 

Kakashi in part one does not have a ridiculously high chakra. He literally does it when he is almost out. It’s a b rank jutsu even kiba can use, there’s literally no reason to believe he can’t use it when that’s what the sharingan’s main ability is. 

He uses it in the last.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jan 2, 2019)

Adamant soul said:


> Sasuke only has access to the basic Clone jutsu, which only generates illusionary clones (See Sakura vs Ino), not solid bodies that can actually fight (which is what the Shadow Clone jutsu that Kakashi and Naruto use does).
> 
> The Clone Jutsu and the Shadow Clone Jutsu are two different things, ones a basic technique that everyone knows, the other is a Jonin level forbidden technique Naruto is only able to perform because he has ridiculously high chakra in the first place.
> 
> I don't recall Sasuke ever creating physical clones or being stated to be capable of it.


You don't think he ever picked up the move with his Sharingan from Naruto? While it's many years later he's shown using it in Boruto as a demonstration. I just don't think the move suits his general strategy particularly due to it cutting his chakra. He can use it if he wants to, the same way Kakashi can but doesn't really.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 2, 2019)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> You don't think he ever picked up the move with his Sharingan from Naruto? While it's many years later he's shown using it in Boruto as a demonstration. I just don't think the move suits his general strategy particularly due to it cutting his chakra. He can use it if he wants to, the same way Kakashi can but doesn't really.



this. sasuke would just impede himself in most situations using kage bunshin. unlike naruto most shinobis don’t have stupidly high amounts of chakra to just burn during battle. illusions, stealth and precision is sasukes normal approach.

he for sure knows it though. it’s not that difficult of a technique to replicate for jonin level ninja. It just wouldn’t make sense for most people.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

Literally both of you just repeated what I said lmao.

Kakashi and naruto made dozens of clones. Kakashi did it with almost no chakra.

Nature release clones take even less chakra


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Those explosions sure as hell aren't a OHKO. It's debatable that they'd do anything as is. Literally what is the Sharingan?


Who said those were? Fun Fun cloth is gg, His poison blade is GG, and Black Voice is GG. None of which Sauce knows about, 2/3 of them require very slight contact, and FFC is counter type which can be easily initiated vs Sasuke.


Regardless Sasuke isn't tanking them given even a small second explosion completely incinerated Hisoka's hand and foot. Regardless Sasuke is going to have trouble moving around an area with dozens of zombie kamikazes exploding around him, and cumulative damage is a thing, especially given this is powerful after death nen. 

Yes and overwhelming the sharingan mitigates it heavily. 



> Morel was talking about his overall condition, it didn't have to do with his nen, but rather the state of himself after his recent work. He was running at low efficiency but that doesn't mean his techniques are just plain worse.


What are you talking about? Morel was clearly referring to the energy he had left in the tank to fight, this being based on his prior expenditures of nen using black smoke and the like. I don't see how you are even remotely trying to claim that his claim on his condition had nothing to do with stamina or nen.

Irregardless he did the feat, and thus scales.



> Good for them. He can easily replace himself with them and cause all sorts of easy fuck ups


What does this even mean? I'm not seeing a counterargument to my point here.



> and the same goes for any clone technique


?



> and they can't even get close consider the speed difference


Uhm they were overwhelming Hisoka who is mach 30, and sasuke is barely twice that speed. Add in Chrollo using the distractions to initiate Guerrilla warfare tactics , and being able to swap appearances on the fly.



> and you're still going with this whole idea that Chrollo gets all of this prep time for this match. He doesn't.


What are you talking about? Chrollo didn't have any physical prep. In fact, he spent a good time explaining his tactics to Hisoka to increase the flair given the history between them.

Which is why I said I think Sasuke loses if Chrollo makes it to the stands.



Kaaant said:


> Sasuke also has no problem avoiding deidara’s point blank bombs. Plus his clones, his summons, his long range jutsu and even simple shit like smoke bombs make me very doubtful he’s getting hit


Those were tracking bombs from Diedara's position, and he was barely dodging them. This is him trying to discern which humans, and objects he can not only get close to, and attack but also let touch him.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Those were tracking bombs from Diedara's position, and he was barely dodging them. This is him trying to discern which humans, and objects he can not only get close to, and attack but also let touch him.



One blew up in sasuke’s face and he dodged it. Not to mention evading c0 after blowing up. Chidori spear or whatever also gives him another method of keeping people away as it can extend to like 5 or 8 metres iirc


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> One blew up in sasuke’s face and he dodged it. Not to mention evading c0 after blowing up. Chidori spear or whatever also gives him another method of keeping people away as it can extend to like 5 or 8 metres iirc


Hisoka dodged the explosion of the ref from point blank as well, and was getting out of the other explosions but eventually was getting overwhelmed and started losing body parts. Chrollo isn't going for show here, the multiple times he hit Hisoka in this match will be poison slashes or attempts at black voice. 

Chidori spear is viable for cutting but Hisoka was using a legit morning star and clearing that same distance and still got overwhelmed. They also won't be electrocuted since they are puppets.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

He has henge to blend into the crowd, he can fucking summon Manda and absolutely trash all the dummies and Chrollo


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> He has henge to blend into the crowd, he can fucking summon Manda and absolutely trash all the dummies and Chrollo


Chrollo sticks black voice in him, and gets a new pet.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

Chidori nagashi fucked up team 7 and Yamato at the same time too.

Even if you ignore the absurd advantage he gets from shadow clones, stuff like nagashi is perfect for crowd control.



Fun cloth probably would beat him if it hit but sasuke is fast enough to react to it, and can tear it apart. 



Dr. White said:


> They also won't be electrocuted since they are puppets.



Even dead corpses react to electricity.


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Chidori nagashi fucked up team 7 and Yamato at the same time too.
> 
> Even if you ignore the absurd advantage he gets from shadow clones, stuff like nagashi is perfect for crowd control.
> 
> ...


He gets no advantage from clones and won't use them and doesn't even know them (this version).

Chidori nagashi is extremely limited in range and puppets don't have nervous systems.

This is basically HxH version of Itachi's exploding clones, but in much greater numbers.


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## J★J♥ (Jan 2, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Chidori nagashi fucked up team 7 and Yamato at the same time too.
> 
> Even if you ignore the absurd advantage he gets from shadow clones, stuff like nagashi is perfect for crowd control.
> 
> ...


It did fuckall to Yamato


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

The sharingan would also probably let sasuke tell out chrollo from the crowd. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure it’d be able to see the energy buildup or where the energy is coming from. And if it didn’t, it could differentiate chrollo from subtle movements and mannerisms he might have. 



Dr. White said:


> He gets no advantage from clones and won't use them and doesn't even know them (this version).
> 
> Chidori nagashi is extremely limited in range and puppets don't have nervous systems.
> 
> This is basically HxH version of Itachi's exploding clones, but in much greater numbers.



Having disposable bodies is a massive advantage. Especially ones that are as fast as he is. 

And he has seen the shadow clone used multiple times, therefore he has it. It’s not a difficult jutsu and people with literally shit chakra compared to him have done it. 

Nagashi is just more means to defend himself. Like I said dead corpses aren’t immune to electricity.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

Does sauce have the curse mark here? Can’t he fly?


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> The sharingan would also probably let sasuke tell out chrollo from the crowd. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure it’d be able to see the energy buildup or where the energy is coming from. And if it didn’t, it could differentiate chrollo from subtle movements and mannerisms he might have.


Well all of them have nen flowing through them and there are also the alive people in the crowd. Sharingan isn't x ray vision, he can't just see through hundreds of people to pinpoint Chrollo hiding.




> Having disposable bodies is a massive advantage. Especially ones that are as fast as he is.


It's a horrible waste of chakra, we saw that Sasuke eliminated all of his chakra in the Diedara and Itachi fights, so he can't just be spamming all day. Clones will literally cut chunks off his chakra, for little effectiveness. Plus this version doesn't know the jutsu.



> And he has seen the shadow clone used multiple times, therefore he has it. It’s not a difficult jutsu and people with literally shit chakra compared to him have done it.


No lol? There have been plenty of times Sasuke could have used shadow clone jutsu. He didn't. There is no proof he knows the jutsu or can use it. By your logic all jonin and above ninja know it. 



> Nagashi is just more means to defend himself. Like I said dead corpses aren’t immune to electricity.


It's a spurt of electricity, it won't help if he's been swarmed.

Yes they are? They aren't using synapses, white matter, or the peripheral nervous system, so it's not going to stun them.


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Does sauce have the curse mark here? Can’t he fly?


He has it in scenario 2 but speed gets equalized there. 

He can't fly, but he can glide. Not going to help too much given Hisoka was still getting chased down Z Day style while going Spidey.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Well all of them have nen flowing through them and there are also the alive people in the crowd. Sharingan isn't x ray vision, he can't just see through hundreds of people to pinpoint Chrollo hiding.



Yeah but can’t he see where bigger concentrations of it are? Sharingan can see through shit - sasuke perceived deidara’s bombs underground and itachi saw kabuto’s snakes through parts of the cave. 



Dr. White said:


> It's a horrible waste of chakra, we saw that Sasuke eliminated all of his chakra in the Diedara and Itachi fights, so he can't just be spamming all day. Clones will literally cut chunks off his chakra, for little effectiveness. Plus this version doesn't know the jutsu.



That’s because he was doing shit like regeneration and stabbing himself with chidori. Sasuke was exhausted and still teleported manda *twice*

Kakashi in part one literally had next to no chakra and could make clones. Naruto with no chakra control and massively wasting them made hundreds. Sasuke has more chakra. 

Kid Sasuke has seen naruto do the jutsu with sharingan. I think he’s even seen nature release versions fighting zabuza - they take even less chakra than shadow clones




Dr. White said:


> No lol? There have been plenty of times Sasuke could have used shadow clone jutsu. He didn't. There is no proof he knows the jutsu or can use it. By your logic all jonin and above ninja know it.



>the sharingan isn’t able to copy b rank techniques despite that being its stated ability. 

Come on now. 




Dr. White said:


> It's a spurt of electricity, it won't help if he's been swarmed.
> 
> Yes they are? They aren't using synapses, white matter, or the peripheral nervous system, so it's not going to stun them



Electricity will still affect their muscles. The puppets would be useless. 



Dr. White said:


> He has it in scenario 2 but speed gets equalized there.
> 
> He can't fly, but he can glide. Not going to help too much given Hisoka was still getting chased down Z Day style while going Spidey.



Doesn’t even look like he’s 10m off the ground there sasuke was leaping off into the sky after deidara. Sasuke still has precognition with the sharingan.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

Sasuke literally sees naruto use the technique when he’s a kid with the sharingan 

Z Day style while going Spidey.

Z Day style while going Spidey.


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## tonpa (Jan 2, 2019)

Man I wish the death match fight was animated.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

Sees it here as well

Z Day style while going Spidey.


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Yeah but can’t he see where bigger concentrations of it are? Sharingan can see through shit - sasuke perceived deidara’s bombs underground and itachi saw kabuto’s snakes through parts of the cave.


Not that I know of. Plus Chrollo is likely using zetsu when hiding and only activating his nen for the stamping and what not.

Sharingan see chakra through small areas of solids, but the problem will be when all of the puppet auras are stacking his vision in addition to the crowd and chrollo being appearence swapped. It's trying to find a needle in a haystack of nen which will be blocking his LOS.





> That’s because he was doing shit like regeneration and stabbing himself with chidori. Sasuke was exhausted and still teleported manda *twice*


Suigetsu is the one who did the reverse teleport, and the point is he still wasted chakra and wasn't able to spam his stuff. He wasn't using a buttload of jutsu and doesn't have the stamina his later self does.



> Kakashi in part one literally had next to no chakra and could make clones.


Yes he did that as a bluff meaning his clones would have gotten scrapped by the fodder dudes. It was a last ditch effort.



> Naruto with no chakra control and massively wasting them made hundreds. Sasuke has more chakra.


He did so because of the Kyuubi's chakra.



> Kid Sasuke has seen naruto do the jutsu with sharingan. I think he’s even seen nature release versions fighting zabuza - they take even less chakra than shadow clones


Ok? He has to actively copy a jutsu to use it. Hebi Sasuke does not know shadow clones and never showed the ability. Nothing him having it in his arsenal. He simply doesn't have it.






> >the sharingan isn’t able to copy b rank techniques despite that being its stated ability.


The sharingan can copy it.

Still doesn't mean Sasuke *did* copy it and *can* use it. That's what you're not understanding. You have to prove he copied it and knew it at that point. 






> Electricity will still affect their muscles. The puppets would be useless.


No it wouldn't because the pathways are dead and not actively running with the same cation gateways, meaning no stun.

And Chrollo's puppets are just puppets, not actual corpses.





> Doesn’t even look like he’s 10m off the ground there sasuke was leaping off into the sky after deidara. Sasuke still has precognition with the sharingan.


What are you talking about? This is an arena and Hisoka went to the roof lol. He can't go any higher.

Sasuke went to the air out of desperation as he needed to get to Diedara, he does not have casual flight or anything close. He can just fight somewhat in the air via gliding and jumping. Hisoka's bungee gum is much better because he can essentially do what Doflamingo and Spiderman do by launching and retracting his gum, and sticking to surfaces, and he still got overwhelmed.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

Chidori Eiso will behead all the puppets if they get close and his wings would easily be able to take an explosion from them. Fucking part 1 Sauce’s wings shrugged off a  town+ level punch from KN1 Naruto and knocked him the hell away.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Chidori Eiso will behead all the puppets if they get close and his wings would easily be able to take an explosion from them. Fucking part 1 Sauce’s wings shrugged off a  town+ level punch from KN1 Naruto and knocked him the hell away.


low double digit kilotons <<<< town level+ to City level stuff that was incinerating Hisoka. Especially given it's after death nen. Only his strongest explosions would scale but he has all the resources to get that done. Hebi Sauce isn't even city level in anything outside of Kirin, and chidori.


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## Hardcore (Jan 2, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Yes he did that as a bluff meaning his clones would have gotten scrapped by the fodder dudes. It was a last ditch effort.
> 
> Ok? He has to actively copy a jutsu to use it. Hebi Sasuke does not know shadow clones and never showed the ability. Nothing him having it in his arsenal. He simply doesn't have it.
> 
> ...



Umm what?

Saying Hebi Sasuke is unable to form clones is pure BS, it is technique that literally any jounin can do. Hell, their final test in the academy as Genins was to form clones. He never needed to copy it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> Umm what?
> 
> Saying Hebi Sasuke is unable to form clones is pure BS, it is technique that literally any jounin can do. Hell, their final test in the academy as Genins was to form clones. He never needed to copy it.


I'm talking about shadow clones my guy


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## Hardcore (Jan 2, 2019)

Oh, I never knew the difference.

I always considered Naruto's technique to be just instant mass cloning or something like that.


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> Oh, I never knew the difference.
> 
> I always considered Naruto's technique to be just instant mass cloning or something like that.


bushin no jutsu is an illusion similar to a hologram. Sakura uses it vs Ino.

shadow clone jutsu is an actual physical manifestation of the user which can also use jutsu and has the stats of the caster.


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## Kaaant (Jan 2, 2019)

It’s still something literal fodder can do. A b rank jutsu we know sasuke has seen with sharingan multiple times. Even Kiba can do it.

I had always assumed that the bushin jutsu was a genjutsu  that makes things even worse considering it’s also usable here.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> low double digit kilotons <<<< town level+ to City level stuff that was incinerating Hisoka. Especially given it's after death nen. Only his strongest explosions would scale but he has all the resources to get that done. Hebi Sauce isn't even city level in anything outside of Kirin, and chidori.


Triple digits, from fodder to him. Not to mention he was inside the high end town to small city level explosion he caused he with Naruto. And this is all before the timeskip

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 2, 2019)

chrollo has to do so many things right and all sasuke has to do is fight

sasuke would have to be way off his game to actually lose here


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> chrollo has to do so many things right and all sasuke has to do is fight
> 
> sasuke would have to be way off his game to actually lose here


Not really, once he gets to the crowd his odds of winning skyrocket. Chrollo has better high end scaling and sasuke has a marginal speed advantage. Chrollo isn’t even helpless in cqc which is the worst case scenario for him. Black voice, poison knife and fun fun cloth are OHKO threats and sasuke has no knowledge. Chrollo is extremely good in cqc being able to hold his own vs two zoldycks at once, and make them risk their lives to fight him, and chrollo wasn’t even trying to kill. Given he was tanking hitsfrom zeno and silva he also scales with durability and his ren/ten.


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## Dr. White (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Triple digits, from fodder to him. Not to mention he was inside the high end town to small city level explosion he caused he with Naruto. And this is all before the timeskip


I’m gonna need a citation for the suppossed vote small city thing as chouji’s feat was the best scaling for pt. 1 nigs IIRC.


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## Kaaant (Jan 3, 2019)

Can’t chrollo only use 2 abilities at one time or something like that?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jan 3, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Not really, once he gets to the crowd his odds of winning skyrocket. Chrollo has better high end scaling and sasuke has a marginal speed advantage. Chrollo isn’t even helpless in cqc which is the worst case scenario for him. Black voice, poison knife and fun fun cloth are OHKO threats and sasuke has no knowledge. Chrollo is extremely good in cqc being able to hold his own vs two zoldycks at once, and make them risk their lives to fight him, and chrollo wasn’t even trying to kill. Given he was tanking hitsfrom zeno and silva he also scales with durability and his ren/ten.


Sure Chrollo can run away into the crowd and desperately try to do some prep work, but what then? By that point Sasuke can just transform into anybody and ambush Chrollo at any given point.

Sasuke's taijutsu is impressive and his Sharigan + greater speed/reactions seal his win close up. Fun Fun Cloth is too slow, there's no way Sasuke is letting it cover him even with no knowledge (because even if it just blocked his vision and movement it would impede him), black voice has to be inserted and Sasuke wouldn't allow that (and Sasuke can resist mindfuck with him breaking shit like Tsukiyomi and also resisting Orochimaru's takeover) and Chrollo has a lower chance of landing either since he needs to have his book open (which reduces his CQC skills due to it taking up a hand), the same goes for the knife. Zeno was doing the majority of the fighting in that scenario as well with Silva looking for an opening. Scaling the Zolydck's doesn't exactly buff him either, he had that already and he's still out-stated.

Also that whole thing about Sasuke needing to fly or something silly like that is dumb, while it's unneeded for the win, he has the option to walk on vertical surfaces. The crowd can't effectively follow him like that and then they're pretty much useless while Sasuke can attack from a distance.


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## Sierra117 (Jan 3, 2019)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Sure Chrollo can run away into the crowd and desperately try to do some prep work, but what then? By that point Sasuke can just transform into anybody and ambush Chrollo at any given point.



This is actually a really good point. Chrollo would likely be super confused unless he ordered his puppets to do something to give away Sasuke's location. Sasuke would be a needle in a haystack, unfortunately a highly explosive haystack.


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## Sierra117 (Jan 3, 2019)

tonpa said:


> Man I wish the death match fight was animated.



We can splice some irrelevant clips together and throw some linkin park music in the background.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 3, 2019)

Robo said:


> This is actually a really good point. Chrollo would likely be super confused unless he ordered his puppets to do something to give away Sasuke's location. Sasuke would be a needle in a haystack, unfortunately a highly explosive haystack.



an doing so is well within sasukes usual method of attack

sauce we’ll see the trajectory of his muscle movements with the sharingan and see that he’s infusing nen across the crowd. he’ll more than likely just choose to blend in and surprise chrollo off guard than just blow the stadium away.

chrollo knows nothing of sasukes abilities he will more than likely assume he’s an enhancer with just his speed alone. by the time he’d try to counter sharingan, katon and long distance genjustu he’d be far out of position and on the defensive. He won’t even be able to apply a proper game plan around an opponent who has the tools necessary to defend and follow up speed blitz him at the same time from anywhere in the stadium.

hisoka doesn’t have sharingan or genjustu or katon. had he had access to those three his fight with chrollo would’ve went much differently


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## Sierra117 (Jan 3, 2019)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> hisoka doesn’t have sharingan or genjustu or katon. had he had access to those three his fight with chrollo would’ve went much differently



Genjutsu is banned here, but yeah Hisoka would have an edge with those other two.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 3, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Not really, once he gets to the crowd his odds of winning skyrocket. Chrollo has better high end scaling and sasuke has a marginal speed advantage. Chrollo isn’t even helpless in cqc which is the worst case scenario for him. Black voice, poison knife and fun fun cloth are OHKO threats and sasuke has no knowledge. Chrollo is extremely good in cqc being able to hold his own vs two zoldycks at once, and make them risk their lives to fight him, and chrollo wasn’t even trying to kill. Given he was tanking hitsfrom zeno and silva he also scales with durability and his ren/ten.



getting to the crowd is the hard part. sasukes wont just allow him to dart off to the crowd when he’s faster, can see his trajectory of movement and has katon.

he would immediately assume he’s up to something and do everything he could to stop it

assuming chrollo would just do so without knowing anything about sasuke is also kind of reach.what if sasuke had remote nen detonation or has a greater control of mind fucking people than chrollo does?  he’d effectively fuck himself by jumping into the crowd. being that he knows nothing about sasuke he’d be more inclined to be defensive and analyze first and we all know it’s downhill from there if sasuke is allowed to apply pressure from jump.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 3, 2019)

Robo said:


> Genjutsu is banned here, but yeah Hisoka would have an edge with those other two.



ahh my bad


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> I’m gonna need a citation for the suppossed vote small city thing as chouji’s feat was the best scaling for pt. 1 nigs IIRC.


Why? Chrollo doesnt scale to Youpi’s nen blast unless hes throwing a huge amount of aura into a sun & moon blast and even thats not enough to put Sauce down in base, let alone CS2


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## Divell (Jan 3, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


>


Fuck it Katon and Chidori it is. Chrollo is still at a disadvantage. Sasuke's Chidori is powerful enough to penetrate Raikage's armor and he cut Bee's tail with it. In terms of fire he was outputting Itachi. 

So even with Sasuke, heavily nerf, Chrollo still gets stomped.


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## Divell (Jan 3, 2019)

Adamant soul said:


> Sasuke only has access to the basic Clone jutsu, which only generates illusionary clones (See Sakura vs Ino), not solid bodies that can actually fight (which is what the Shadow Clone jutsu that Kakashi and Naruto use does).
> 
> The Clone Jutsu and the Shadow Clone Jutsu are two different things, ones a basic technique that everyone knows, the other is a Jonin level forbidden technique Naruto is only able to perform because he has ridiculously high chakra in the first place.
> 
> I don't recall Sasuke ever creating physical clones or being stated to be capable of it.


He does it in Boruto to show off. But it has never been his style to use it either way.


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## Kaaant (Jan 3, 2019)

It’s one hand sign. He’s seen it used with the sharingan. It’s a b rank jutsu fodder can use. He can use it.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Sasuke going henge solves nothing lmao. He still can't pinpoint Chrollo and Sasuke hiding gives him more time.
> 
> Chrollo can set his shit up being meat shields and what not, but all of Sasuke's jutsu attract direct attention (spitting fireballs, glowing with lightning, use of a sword) which will make him readily apparent, and when Sasuke does to stop hiding, he essentially starts off in an even worse position given Chrollo's accumulated resources by that point.
> 
> ...


>cant pinpoint him
>Sharingan literally sees energy and Chrollo will have a huge fucking signal in a crowd of normal ass people


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## tonpa (Jan 3, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >cant pinpoint him
> >Sharingan literally sees energy and Chrollo will have a huge fucking signal in a crowd of normal ass people


 he can conceal his aura and also the puppets would have his aura signature


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## Dr. White (Jan 3, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >cant pinpoint him
> >Sharingan literally sees energy and Chrollo will have a huge fucking signal in a crowd of normal ass people


> chrollo has zetsu.

> hundreds of puppets blocking LOS

> implying hisoka wouldn’t have just used gyo if it were that simple.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 3, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> > chrollo has zetsu.
> 
> > hundreds of puppets blocking LOS
> 
> > implying hisoka wouldn’t have just used gyo if it were that simple.



why won’t a few simple katons work? 

sasuke is not obligated to let the puppets get close and unlike hisoka he has a sword, trajectory prediction and long range ninjustu 

not to mention sharingan again predicts trajectory and can see aura through structures

I have a hard time believing sasuke can’t lock onto chrollo signature movements when he has an eye that’s specifically made for they shit lol it’s not gyo it’s better 

saying chrollo will move the exact same way movement wise as the crowd zombies is a reach as well which is why I keep saying chrollo has to do way to much here and all sasuke has to do is be competent


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## shade0180 (Jan 3, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> > chrollo has zetsu.
> 
> > hundreds of puppets blocking LOS
> 
> > implying hisoka wouldn’t have just used gyo if it were that simple.



Sauce can see the real nardo from thousands of clone.


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## Dr. White (Jan 3, 2019)

shade0180 said:


> Sauce can see the real nardo from thousands of clone.


A.) Good thing these aren’t shadow clones. 

B.) pretty sure that is not consistent with sharingan feats throughout the manga (kakashi and itachi both got feinted by eachother and madara couldn’t decipher hashi’s clones) or other similar aura seeing occular powers (neji vs naruto, and pein vs kakashi).


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## shade0180 (Jan 3, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> A.) Good thing these aren’t shadow clones.


you do know shadow clones are perfect copy of the original right.

 If Sauce can determine the original from a pile of thousands of perfect copies of the original you think he'll have a hard time determining chrollo from masses of fakes.


> (kakashi and itachi both got feinted by eachother and madara couldn’t decipher hashi’s clones)



Hashi's clones aren't shadow clone's they are wood clones. Itachi and Kakashi aren't EMS wielders.


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## Dr. White (Jan 3, 2019)

shade0180 said:


> you do know shadow clones are perfect copy of the original right.
> 
> If Sauce can determine the original from a pile of thousands of perfect copies of the original you think he'll have a hard time determining chrollo from masses of fakes.
> 
> ...


Not really since once again sharingan features for 3 tomoe don’t do that. This is pre hebi sasuke so not sure why you are bringing up them not being ems users.

Chrollo isn't just hiding he is also physically swapping morphology with people in the crowd. Hisoka thought he killed chrollo until the original form appeared upon death. 

If it was as simple as find the biggest aura as others suggested then gyo would have sufficed.


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## shade0180 (Jan 3, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Not really since once again sharingan features for 3 tomoe don’t do that. This is pre hebi sasuke so not sure why you are bringing up them not being ems users.


Oh this is Hebi sauce?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 4, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> > chrollo has zetsu.
> 
> > hundreds of puppets blocking LOS
> 
> > implying hisoka wouldn’t have just used gyo if it were that simple.


He cant use Zetsu and Hatsu at the same time


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 4, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> He cant use Zetsu and Hatsu at the same time


Would Zetsu even work on someone with the Sharingan at the end of the day?


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## Dr. White (Jan 4, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> He cant use Zetsu and Hatsu at the same time


He can canonically make dozens to hundreds in seconds. Cycling on the run is not a problem. Sasuke can’t see his aura through dozens to hundreds of others hlocking the sight of chrollo. So chrollo obviously is going to his hest to hide, given that gyo is a thing in hxh, and hisoka was straight helpless to get the real chrollo.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 4, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> He can canonically make dozens to hundreds in seconds. Cycling on the run is not a problem. Sasuke can’t see his aura through dozens to hundreds of others hlocking the sight of chrollo. So chrollo obviously is going to his hest to hide, given that gyo is a thing in hxh, and hisoka was straight helpless to get the real chrollo.


So, the slower guy here (Chrollo) is going to outpace and hide from the guy who has better vision and the tools to murder him from range, along with precog? Yea good fucking luck

Gyo =\= sharingan. It only lets people see aura more clearly, Zetsu makes gyo completely useless, but the sharingan can also see internal energy and muscle movements to discern shit


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## John Wayne (Jan 4, 2019)

Sharingan doesn't actually see the flow of energy that's Byakugan and Rinnegan. What Sharingan does is record every minute detail like permanent high speed camera and thus gives insights on how people will most likely act. It lets them clown on same speed characters 1v1 and percieve characters that are a tier letting them situationally react.

That's the first function, the other is to record the exact hand seal sequence to use a jutsu which then gets translated into muscle memory for the owner of the Sharingan. The final use is to cast ocular genjutsu without requiring use of hand seals.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 4, 2019)

John Wayne said:


> Sharingan doesn't actually see the flow of energy that's Byakugan and Rinnegan. What Sharingan does is record every minute detail like permanent high speed camera and thus gives insights on how people will most likely act. It lets them clown on same speed characters 1v1 and percieve characters that are a tier letting them situationally react.
> 
> That's the first function, the other is to record the exact hand seal sequence to use a jutsu which then gets translated into muscle memory for the owner of the Sharingan. The final use is to cast ocular genjutsu without requiring use of hand seals.


They can see chakra with it, Sasuke uses it during the Deidara fight


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## Kaaant (Jan 4, 2019)

He can still use shadow clones.


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## shade0180 (Jan 4, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> He can still use shadow clones.


He might be able to use it but he ain't using it in any scenario at all unless you want to write about a fanfiction where Sauce uses shadow clone in his fights.


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## Kaaant (Jan 4, 2019)

Based on what. This entire fight is fan fiction.

“He won’t use it because I say so”


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## shade0180 (Jan 4, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Based on what. This entire fight is fan fiction.
> 
> “He won’t use it because I say so”


he won't use it because he never had done so.

 yes our fight are fucking fanfiction but the tendency we use when we put them in battle is the same tendency that are use in the fucking series, you've been in this site for fucking more than 5 years you should already understand how this hobby operates.

We don't assume character will do shit outside of what they have done in the series.

Batman has the fucking ability to activate every nuke in the planet.

We don't assume batman will use that in OBD fights because he hadn't use it in his entire comic book run.

 We know superman can push a planet around but we don't fucking assume Superman will drop a fucking planet on another fighter because he can do it when he never have done so before hand. Can he do it yes, will he do it even blood lusted fucking no because he never did it even when bloodlusted.


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## Kaaant (Jan 4, 2019)

It’s literally in his character to use the most appropriate ninjutsu at the time as stated by his databook entry. He has seen it multiple times with the sharingan it is a shitty b rank jutsu with one seal. So he can use it. End of story. 

>same tendency 

That’s a total lie but ok. 

Your English is also terrible.


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## Kaaant (Jan 4, 2019)

“Selects from his repertoire of skills and ninjutsu the one which will be most effective”


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## Dr. White (Jan 4, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> So, the slower guy here (Chrollo) is going to outpace and hide from the guy who has better vision and the tools to murder him from range, along with precog? Yea good fucking luck
> 
> Gyo =\= sharingan. It only lets people see aura more clearly, Zetsu makes gyo completely useless, but the sharingan can also see internal energy and muscle movements to discern shit


Oh you mean just like that time the slower person (diedara) was able to use his arsenal and reactions to escape the guy who has better vision, the tools to murder him from range, along with precog? 

In this capacity yes it does, your argument was sasuke will use the chakra seeing mechanism to identify chrollo from the crowd. Gyo serves the same function and Hisoka clearly didn't just use that to pinpoint Chrollo. Sharingan chakra seeing is not going to help.  They only see that because it contains chakra, and that particular skill is irrelevant in this case if Chrollo makes it into the crowd.


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## Kaaant (Jan 4, 2019)

Sasuke wasn’t trying to kill deidara. And deidara still failed. 

And deidara is stronger than Chrollo. 

Dei also used obito to turn the ground into a minefield. And had an air advantage.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 4, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> Oh you mean just like that time the slower person (diedara) was able to use his arsenal and reactions to escape the guy who has better vision, the tools to murder him from range, along with precog?
> 
> In this capacity yes it does, your argument was sasuke will use the chakra seeing mechanism to identify chrollo from the crowd. Gyo serves the same function and Hisoka clearly didn't just use that to pinpoint Chrollo. Sharingan chakra seeing is not going to help.  They only see that because it contains chakra, and that particular skill is irrelevant in this case if Chrollo makes it into the crowd.


so hes gonna make it into the crowd, then use Zetsu AND his hatsu at the same time? absolute bullshit dude

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kaaant (Jan 4, 2019)

I just watched the fight. Chrollo has so many limitations here it’s unreal. He had to constantly shift about and hide, and buy time to make his puppets and shit - from a guy significantly slower than sasuke. 

 I totally forgot the mechanics of chrollo’s abilities:

The one that shifts appearances around would not be enough to hide from sasuke. He can see specific colours to chakra depending on person so he would be able to see Chrollo’s specific energy. He can mimic entire movements so even if he swapped appearance, if he’s running around sasuke would be able to memorise his specific way of moving and single him out. 

 black voice can only work on two people, I am doubtful it would even work on sasuke as his own will eroded and overwhelmed orochimaru’s own dimension despite having a bunch of people there already merged with him. 

Chrollo cant even give mass orders to his puppets without the speakers. 

And hisoka was able to completely keep the puppets at bay just by swinging a bunch of them around in a circle. Hisoka even notes the puppets aren’t fortified, and are weak. Chidori spear could serve the same function. 

Sun and moon takes five seconds contact to add any meaningful power to it. 

If sasuke jumped to the ceiling there wouldn’t be anything they could do. The actual ceiling not the walls.


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## Maacalin (Jan 4, 2019)

Sasuke wins


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 4, 2019)

Sasuke isn’t significantly faster than Hisoka


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 5, 2019)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Sasuke isn’t significantly faster than Hisoka


Hes almost twice as fast, thats two times the actions he can take in the same timeframe


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Hes almost twice as fast, thats two times the actions he can take in the same timeframe


Calcs shouldn’t be taken that literal. The difference in speed is negligible, the muscle movement predicting thing Sharingan grants would be a bigger factor than the difference in speed


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## MarF (Jan 5, 2019)

Just wanna point out that Sasuke is mach 108 scaling from base Naruto not mach 70 so around 3,5 times faster than chrollo who is mach 30 according to this thread.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 5, 2019)

MarF said:


> Just wanna point out that Sasuke is mach 108 scaling from base Naruto not mach 70 so around 3,5 times faster than chrollo who is mach 30 according to this thread.



if this is confirmed than this is no longer a fight but a one sided close quarters beat down


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## MarF (Jan 5, 2019)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> if this is confirmed than this is no longer a fight but a one sided close quarters beat down




This is the calc I was talking about but appearently it got deleted or something since I last looked at it.

Numbers were mach 128 for the FRS and 100+ for Base Naruto who at this point is around the same tier as Kakashi.


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## Amol (Jan 5, 2019)

I am surprised that this is a match-up. From what I understood even part 1 Naruto was stronger than HxH verse 
Sasuke should win here in any case. He is faster, stronger and has more variety. I like Chrollo but he got nothing going on for him here. Not even in deception area. Sasuke beats him even there with Henge, Bunshin and literal mind control.


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