# Base Itachi vs. Kakuzu



## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 6, 2014)

*Distance:* 15 meters
*Location:* Forest of Death
*Knowledge:* Itachi is aware that Kakuzu fought Hashirama and survived; Kakuzu has been told that Itachi is a prodigy among the Uchiha
*Mindset:* IC (intent to kill)
*Restrictions:* Mangekyou Sharingan

Assume Itachi is healthy with 3.5-tier stamina, and he has access to an ANBU sword - on top of his regular equipment - while Kakuzu is shown as he was seen in the manga...


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## Ghost (Feb 6, 2014)

Doton: Domu is the only thing that will cause trouble for Itachi. His Ninjutsu and weapons are too weak to get past it easily. Itachi takes this with genjutsu trolling.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 6, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Doton: Domu is the only thing that will cause trouble for Itachi. His Ninjutsu and weapons are too weak to get past it easily. Itachi takes this with genjutsu trolling.



^Pretty much this.

Genjutsu and Ninjutsu combination attacks oughtta net Itachi the win after a difficult battle. If it comes to absolutely desperate circumstances, he can try to set up Izanami, which he has a pretty good chance of doing with Kakuzu as his opponent. Itachi's speed advantage and Sharingan aren't anything to overlook, either.

That said, their mutual intel is going to be...misleading. Itachi is going to be extremely wary of Kakuzu from the outset, whereas Kakuzu may be a little too confident about his ability to handle an Uchiha and end up grossly underestimating this one.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> ^Pretty much this.
> 
> Genjutsu and Ninjutsu combination attacks oughtta net Itachi the win after a difficult battle. If it comes to absolutely desperate circumstances, he can try to set up Izanami, which he has a pretty good chance of doing with Kakuzu as his opponent. Itachi's speed advantage and Sharingan aren't anything to overlook, either.
> 
> That said, their mutual intel is going to be...misleading. Itachi is going to be extremely wary of Kakuzu from the outset, whereas Kakuzu may be a little too confident about his ability to handle an Uchiha and end up grossly underestimating this one.



Underestimate an Uchiha when he was in the time of fucking Madara? I don't think so.

25m, hearts go out and he wrecks Itachi. Or Itachi uses genjutsu, and lets just say Kakuku doesn't break it, and uses a ninjutsu on to "kill" him. Itachi doesn't have 5 hearts knowledge and would think he won when bam, Kakuku wrecks him.

Kakuzu 10/10 no dif.


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## Ghost (Feb 6, 2014)

^ kek'd               .


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## Nikushimi (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Underestimate an Uchiha when he was in the time of fucking Madara? I don't think so.



Itachi is not Madara and Madara is not the typical example of an Uchiha (well...power-wise).



> 25m, hearts go out and he wrecks Itachi. Or Itachi uses genjutsu, and lets just say Kakuku doesn't break it, and uses a ninjutsu on to "kill" him. Itachi doesn't have 5 hearts knowledge and would think he won when bam, Kakuku wrecks him.



Kakashi didn't have any knowledge, either.

Kakuzu kicked him by surprise, and he survived it. No sweat.

Itachi does the same, assuming he's even in a position to get caught off-guard; he's usually more careful than that.



> Kakuzu 10/10 no dif.



lel


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi is not Madara and Madara is not the typical example of an Uchiha (well...power-wise).



He is not going to underestimate an Uchiha prodigy. He didn't even underestimate Kakashi. He warned Hidan not to underestimate Asuma. It's just not like him.



> Kakashi didn't have any knowledge, either.
> 
> Kakuzu kicked him by surprise, and he survived it. No sweat.
> 
> Itachi does the same, assuming he's even in a position to get caught off-guard; he's usually more careful than that.



And Kakashi had backup. Once Kakuzu gets his heart out it's over. Itachi uses genjutsu, "kills" him, and he gets hearts out right there. Or he gets them out before genjutsu as they're at 15m. Any jutsu Itachi has gets dodged at that range. And saying he handles Kakuzu and the hearts without MS is just batshit crazy.


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## Master Sephiroth (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Kakuzu 10/10 no dif.



Why do you even reply on threads regarding Itachi anymore? You've made your hate for him very clear.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

Master Sephiroth said:


> Why do you even reply on threads regarding Itachi anymore? You've made your hate for him very clear.



Why do Itachifans even reply on threads regarding Itachi anymore? They've made their love for him very clear.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Feb 6, 2014)

Kakuzu has Itachi outgunned here in terms of power, but Itachi is smarter and faster. 

Genjutsu trolling coupled with an ambush would probably give Itachi the win here.

But I think Kakuzu is a hard opponent to defeat for Itachi because of Domu & Jingou. Itachi can't beat him physicaly, neither he has any jutsu with enough fire power to breach domu.  Bunshin feint/genjutsu is essential here. 

Itachi with high dif.


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## Trojan (Feb 6, 2014)

Kakuzu wins this rather easily. 

Non of itachi's jutsu will effect Kakuzu with his skin, as for the genjutsu, the masks are not going to be put
under a genjutsu. Not to mention Kakuzu fighting style is long-rank attacks, so he has no reason to go near
itachi in the first place.


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## Master Sephiroth (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Why do Itachifans even reply on threads regarding Itachi anymore? They've made their love for him very clear.



I knew you would do that. But there's a difference between being a fan and a fanboy. Just like there is a difference between someone who dislikes someone and a hater who literally puts "Fuck Itachi" in their profile. Not all fans here are  fanboys. But it's very easy to differentiate you from people who just dislike the character but are respectful.


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## Kanki (Feb 6, 2014)

If Kakuzu has all these hearts, does that mean he has different flows of chakra going through his body? I'm so rusty with Naruto.

If Itachi can't put all the masks into a genjutsu at once, he loses this. It will take a long-ish time to nail Itachi, but ultimately there's no offensive measures that Itachi has.


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## asstonine (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Underestimate an Uchiha when he was in the time of fucking Madara? I don't think so.
> 
> 25m, hearts go out and he wrecks Itachi. Or Itachi uses genjutsu, and lets just say Kakuku doesn't break it, and uses a ninjutsu on to "kill" him. Itachi doesn't have 5 hearts knowledge and would think he won when bam, Kakuku wrecks him.
> 
> Kakuzu 10/10 no dif.



This.  Fucking itachi wankers...  

Ever notice how it's always either,
Herp derp gg genjutsu
Herp derp MS

Yah, because they don't have actual arguments.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

Master Sephiroth said:


> I knew you would do that. But there's a difference between being a fan and a fanboy. Just like there is a difference between someone who dislikes someone and a hater who literally puts "Fuck Itachi" in their profile. Not all fans here are  fanboys. But it's very easy to differentiate you from people who just dislike the character but are respectful.



Yeah and the fanboys post 90% more than the fans do. Nikushimi, Grimmjow, and countless others. They just post nonsense like base Itachi beating FUCKING KAKUZU. 

Nikushimi's biography says he's the king of Itachifans. That's who I was replying to. How does me saying 10/10 no dif make me any different from the fuckload that say "Itachi soloes " in countless threads? You're just trying to start shit from literally fucking nothing. It's fucking sad when someone in the battledome doesn't even argue against you're post, I didn't mean for it to be so complicated.


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## Master Sephiroth (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Yeah and the fanboys post 90% more than the fans do. Nikushimi, Grimmjow, and countless others. They just post nonsense like base Itachi beating FUCKING KAKUZU.
> 
> Nikushimi's biography says he's the king of Itachifans. That's who I was replying to. How does me saying 10/10 no dif make me any different from the fuckload that say "Itachi soloes " in countless threads? You're just trying to start shit from literally fucking nothing. It's fucking sad when someone in the battledome doesn't even argue against you're post, I didn't mean for it to be so complicated.




Most of the "Itachi soloes " posts are jokes. Just like the :blindkatsuyu pic. We already know that the 10/10 no diff is not a joke based on previous experiences.  

Regardless, Kakuzu is not going to have no difficulty fighting him. The only no diff wins between Akatsuki members are either going to involve Nagato or be between an upper level Akatsuki member and Hidan/Zetsu.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

Master Sephiroth said:


> Most of the "Itachi soloes " posts are jokes. Just like the :blindkatsuyu pic. We already know that the 10/10 no diff is not a joke based on previous experiences.



If you honestly think that I'm being dead serious when I say 10/10 no dif then I can't help you. 



> Regardless, Kakuzu is not going to have no difficulty fighting him. The only no diff wins between Akatsuki members are either going to involve Nagato or be between an upper level Akatsuki member and Hidan/Zetsu.



Read the above. I do think Kakuzu stomps him as Itachi in base has no good defense or offense while Kakuzu has both great offense and great defense plus 5 lives.


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## Master Sephiroth (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> If you honestly think that I'm being dead serious when I say 10/10 no dif then I can't help you.



Alright then. I'll give you the botd.



> Read the above. I do think Kakuzu stomps him as Itachi in base has no good defense or offense while Kakuzu has both great offense and great defense plus 5 lives.



I don't think Itachi wins this either. His only real way of winning is to use Genjutsu from the start and take out the Earth heart before Domu. It's possible, but unlikely that he gets lucky enough to do so.


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## asstonine (Feb 6, 2014)

Master Sephiroth said:


> Most of the "Itachi soloes " posts are jokes. Just like the :blindkatsuyu pic. We already know that the 10/10 no diff is not a joke based on previous experiences.
> 
> Regardless, Kakuzu is not going to have no difficulty fighting him. The only no diff wins between Akatsuki members are either going to involve Nagato or be between an upper level Akatsuki member and Hidan/Zetsu.



It's a fucking stomp in Kakuzu's favor dude.  Anyone who says otherwise is a wanker.

Kakuzu has 5 lives, and Itachi would be lucky to even kill one.  
If that's not a low difficulty stomp, idk what is.


Every thread is filled with annoying ass fanboys!  It's pissing people off!


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

Master Sephiroth said:


> I don't think Itachi wins this either. His only real way of winning is to use Genjutsu from the start and take out the Earth heart before Domu. It's possible, but unlikely that he gets lucky enough to do so.



When someone's only real way of winning is luck, they get stomped which is basically what I said above.


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## babaGAReeb (Feb 6, 2014)

will genjutsu even work on kakuzu? hes some kinda black spaghetti monster 

only chance itachis got i see is genjutsu and if dat dosent work kakuzu would probably overwhelm him with elemental blasts


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## asstonine (Feb 6, 2014)

babaGAReeb said:


> will genjutsu even work on kakuzu? hes some kinda black spaghetti monster
> 
> only chance itachis got i see is genjutsu and if dat dosent work kakuzu would probably overwhelm him with elemental blasts



No, not because he is a spaghetti monster, but because he has insane experience.  He knows the uchiha, and he will know to expect genjutsu.  Also, I would have to imagine he has top tier resistance to genjutsu, which allows him to break out even in the slight chance Itachi can do it.


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## Garcher (Feb 6, 2014)

Kakuzu will be a nice warm up for Itachi, but that's it. Come on, he was outsmarted by Naruto ...


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 6, 2014)

The only threat Itachi has is Genjutsu, and without MS, his Genjutsu can be nearly broken by Naruto, who is a complete dud in Genjutsu. Kakuzu, with his experiance, can probably break out of that Genjutsu fairly easily. With the lack of intel, even if Genjutsu works, Itachi would have no knowledge of his hearts and the second he causes pain to Kakuzu, Kakuzu snaps out of it. After that Kakuzu proceeds to destroy Itachi.


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## asstonine (Feb 6, 2014)

Aikuro said:


> Kakuzu will be a nice warm up for Itachi, but that's it. Come on, he was outsmarted by Naruto ...


What sort of BS argument is this?  That's like saying Shikamaru could beat Madara without prep, and little to no knowledge.

It was a clone feint, and naruto is one of the best tacticians in the fucking series.


Fact is itachi has nothing that can put Kakuzu down!  
And even if you wanted to pretend he could, how does he doe it 5 times?


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 6, 2014)

asstonine said:


> What sort of BS argument is this?
> 
> It was a clone feint, and naruto is one of the best tacticians in the fucking series.



No actually Naruto is not one of the best tacticians in the series. But that scenario was full of PIS by Kakuzu and plot armour for Naruto. In reality, Kakuzu should have demolished Naruto back then.


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## asstonine (Feb 6, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> No actually Naruto is not one of the best tacticians in the series. But that scenario was full of PIS by Kakuzu and plot armour for Naruto. In reality, Kakuzu should have demolished Naruto back then.



Ahh yes, naruto is one of the best tacticians.  Sorry, that's a fact!  
We even see that in part1!

Naruto learns a jounin level technique in a few hours with a scroll!

Naruto v/s Zaubza  
Who came up with the strategy?  Sure as hell wasn't saucegay!  

Naruto v/s Neji
Intentionally didn't attack with a clone to draw neji into a trap.
Made another trap to get him to let down his guard, and won the match.

Naruto v/s Hidden Raid genin at chunnin exams
Took control of the situation, when everyone else had basically given up.  Made a copy of the whole team to get them to reveal themselves.

Naruto creates an easier method to creating rasengan, an A level technique!

Naruto v/s Hidden Raid genin again
Made a huge whirlpool with incomplete rasengans.

You could go on, and on!
And yah, clone feints is one of those tactics.  It's one of his most basic tactics!


Plot armor?  Da fuq?  Sounds like your wanking bro!
Image of kakuzu.
check...


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 6, 2014)

Well, even with 3 toma Itachi could arguably perceive Kakuzu's hearts (multiples) and the fact that he's made of tendrils.

Kakashi didn't see this, but Sasuke surely was capable of peering deep into his own circulatory system to counter Deidara's bombs, and Itachi was clearly able to perceive through stone pillars and all throughout a dark cave.


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## asstonine (Feb 6, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Well, even with 3 toma Itachi could arguably perceive Kakuzu's hearts (multiples) and the fact that he's made of tendrils.
> 
> Kakashi didn't see this, but Sasuke surely was capable of peering deep into his own circulatory system to counter Deidara's bombs, and Itachi was clearly able to perceive through stone pillars and all throughout a dark cave.



Did kakashi?
nope.jpg

What?  Sasuke just ran electric current throughout his body!
You are like making up hero powers for them.... What's next a lasers that shoot from their eyes?


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 6, 2014)

asstonine said:


> Did kakashi?
> nope.jpg
> 
> What?  Sasuke just ran electric current throughout his body!


Your statements are irrelevant, Itachi already perceived through stone pillars as if he had x-ray vision. 

And Sasuke did perceive his entire circulatory system [here].


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 6, 2014)

asstonine said:


> Did kakashi?
> nope.jpg
> 
> What?  Sasuke just ran electric current throughout his body!



He also apparently could see through the ground [1]


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## Nikushimi (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> He is not going to underestimate an Uchiha prodigy. He didn't even underestimate Kakashi. He warned Hidan not to underestimate Asuma. It's just not like him.



Kakuzu knew Asuma's bounty and had fought another of the 12 Asspulls Guardians previously. He had a good idea what he was up against; incidentally, warning Hidan not to underestimate someone is probably something most well-intentioned shinobi who have to work alongside him would do. Hidan is nutters, man.

This is a different story. Kakuzu is by himself (no Hidan to keep on a leash) and he doesn't really know anything about his opponent beside "Uchiha prodigy," which puts him anywhere on the scale from part 1 Sasuke to...Madara.



> And Kakashi had backup.



Backup had nothing to do with Kakashi surviving Kakuzu's surprise attack. In fact, one could say that Hidan's presence was what distracted him in the first place; without that, it's hard to say if Kakuzu would've even been able to get that shot on him.



> Once Kakuzu gets his heart out it's over. Itachi uses genjutsu, "kills" him, and he gets hearts out right there. Or he gets them out before genjutsu as they're at 15m. Any jutsu Itachi has gets dodged at that range.



The same goes for Kakuzu; Itachi is much faster and has Sharingan.



> And saying he handles Kakuzu and the hearts without MS is just batshit crazy.



He handled base Killer B and KCM Naruto without MS. Itachi IS batshit crazy. 



Elia said:


> Kakuzu wins this rather easily.
> 
> Non of itachi's jutsu will effect Kakuzu with his skin, as for the genjutsu, the masks are not going to be put
> under a genjutsu. Not to mention Kakuzu fighting style is long-rank attacks, so he has no reason to go near
> itachi in the first place.



Not being able to hit Itachi at long range due to the speed difference and Sharingan is a pretty good reason. Hidan had to meatshield just so he could land a direct hit on Kakashi, and it didn't even compromise his performance to a significant degree.



asstonine said:


> This.  Fucking itachi wankers...
> 
> Ever notice how it's always either,
> Herp derp gg genjutsu
> ...



Genjutsu and MS don't generally require arguments; people can either counter them or they can't, and most can't.

Kakuzu can't.



asstonine said:


> It's a fucking stomp in Kakuzu's favor dude.  Anyone who says otherwise is a wanker.



Your opinion isn't worth anything.



> Kakuzu has 5 lives, and Itachi would be lucky to even kill one.
> If that's not a low difficulty stomp, idk what is.



Kakuzu getting Genjutsu'd and decapitated, completely bypassing the hearts, would be a stomp. But I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he can defend against that with Domu in time, even when Genjutsu is in effect.



> Every thread is filled with annoying ass fanboys!  It's pissing people off!



"People" meaning you.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 6, 2014)

babaGAReeb said:


> will genjutsu even work on kakuzu? hes some kinda black spaghetti monster



You are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters on NF, full stop.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Well, even with 3 toma Itachi could arguably perceive Kakuzu's hearts (multiples) and the fact that he's made of tendrils.
> 
> Kakashi didn't see this, but Sasuke surely was capable of peering deep into his own circulatory system to counter Deidara's bombs, and Itachi was clearly able to perceive through stone pillars and all throughout a dark cave.



No he can't arguably. Kakashi has the same eyes as Sasuke and Itachi. You can't give Sasuke's feats to Itachi without giving them to every sharingan user. 



Nikushimi said:


> Kakuzu knew Asuma's bounty and had fought another of the 12 Asspulls Guardians previously. He had a good idea what he was up against; incidentally, warning Hidan not to underestimate someone is probably something most well-intentioned shinobi who have to work alongside him would do. Hidan is nutters, man.



Uchiha clan=Legendary
Prodigy=Exceptionally good

I think he can put 2 and 2 together.



> This is a different story. Kakuzu is by himself (no Hidan to keep on a leash) and he doesn't really know anything about his opponent beside "Uchiha prodigy," which puts him anywhere on the scale from part 1 Sasuke to...Madara.



And why would Kakuzu get cocky when it's not IC. Even more so when he's alone.



> Backup had nothing to do with Kakashi surviving Kakuzu's surprise attack. In fact, one could say that Hidan's presence was what distracted him in the first place; without that, it's hard to say if Kakuzu would've even been able to get that shot on him.



4 hearts going around spamming huge jutsu with Kakuzu attack with tentacles and anyone is eventually getting tagged.



> The same goes for Kakuzu; Itachi is much faster and has Sharingan.



5v1. You can dodge 1 punch, dodging 5 at once is completely different thing.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 6, 2014)

> No he can't arguably. Kakashi has the same eyes as Sasuke and Itachi. You can't give Sasuke's feats to Itachi without giving them to every sharingan user.


Itachi already perceived through stone pillars, perceiving through a cloak is not a challenge.

Kakashi's inabilities go out the window, Itachi and his brother have the feats.


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## N4GAmbush (Feb 6, 2014)

In my opinion, Itachi is simply outclassed in this fight.. So far I haven't seen base Itachi preform many attacks in that are able to get through Kakuzu's defense and so using physical and elemental attacks such as Katon and Suiton aren't going to be much help for him, considering what the databook says about Kakuzu's defensive jutsu.
*EDIT:*  I will give speed to Itachi, he's definitely faster. Kakuzu just has a better arsenal of jutsu and greater CQC than itachi.
*EDIT:* I also agree that Itachi can see Kakuzu's hearts. I was actually wondering why Kakashi wasn't able to see them before it was mentioned.

With that said, the sole reason that Itachi will have a hard time injuring Kakuzu is because of his Doton: Domu. However, looking at the jutsu I concluded that it would actually benefit Itachi more than Kakuzu. Here is why:

In the Naruto Databook it states that Doton: Domu is a jutsu that allows the user to send chakra through their body and harden their skin, thus increasing their defensive capability to it's maximum. However, there is a downfall to that jutsu in the sense that the part of the body that the jutsu is being used on cannot be moved during that time. This is good for Itachi in multiple ways and if you don't believe what I jutsu said about the jutsu, you may look here: 
.

To continue... Itachi being the genius that he is would quickly exploit this weakness. With that knowledge and being the great tactician that he is, he could use a specific array of jutsu, (specifically ones that surround the opponent) and force Kakuzu into blocking with Domu. Now, according to the databook page I presented earlier, Domu is a jutsu that is defensively activated upon contact, correct? Well, while Kakuzu is blocking Itachi's attack, all Itachi needs to do is invoke amaterasu, a jutsu that is said to burn for seven days, as Kakuzu is literally a sitting duck and will have nothing to dispel it's effects. 

I'm still siding with Kakuzu but just ever so slightly.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 6, 2014)

asstonine said:


> Ahh yes, naruto is one of the best tacticians.  Sorry, that's a fact!
> We even see that in part1!
> 
> Naruto learns a jounin level technique in a few hours with a scroll!
> ...



He's a above average tactician, but there are plenty of characters that have shown to be better tacticians then him in the manga, I could name more then 10. Yes there was plot armour, if there was none, Kakuzu would have simply blasted him with a elemental attack instead of using his thread form. If there was no plot armour, Kakuzu would have kept track of the real Naruto, knowing only the real one can use FRS. If there was no plot armour, Kakuzu would have not already been reduced to less then 50% of strength prior to fighting Naruto.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Itachi already perceived through stone pillars, perceiving through a cloak is not a challenge.
> 
> Kakashi's inabilities go out the window, Itachi and his brother have the feats.



Where did the stone pillars happen? And how does Kakashi's go out the window? Half the time his sharingan is covered up and his eye is closed. Again what feat one sharigan gets, they all get.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Where did the stone pillars happen? And how does Kakashi's go out the window? Half the time his sharingan is covered up and his eye is closed. Again what feat one sharigan gets, they all get.


In the cave against Kabuto. The sharingan perceived through the various pillars in the cave.

Above I presented examples of Sasuke perceiving through his arm deep into his circulatory system, and again through the ground to find Deidara's mines.

Kakashi's inability to perceive Kakuzu's abnormal body structure is his own deficiency, Sasuke and Itachi have proven they can scan through and locate the abnormalities of his body, along with that of say Sasori's.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 6, 2014)

Kakuzu has 5 chakra circulatory systems for partner break, and each one has shown self sufficiency and at least some measure on intelligence, as they were able to fly around and fight on their own after Kakuzu's death, and also go out to be their own soldiers during the war.  That's without the black spaghetti monster argument that jiongu replaces everything but hearts with silly string when activated, which would give you the Sasori in immune to genjutsu because he doesn't have a brain argument.  Unfortunately nothing but genjutsu would be able to stop Kakuzu through domu.  

Itachi's shuriken are going to bounce off of him, or get blasted away by elementals, and katon+futon will beat Itachi's only katon.  Suitons won't stop the combination either, as Kakashi showed when he tried to save himself with a water wall.  

CQC isn't a smart idea with Kakuzu having the Jiongu that webbed Kakashi, again, the super punches and durability of Domu making him into Iron Man.  That leaves Itachi with jumping around evading things, which with sharingan, and a 5 in speed and top notch skill, but in a situation where he's out gunned, and has no real means to harm Kakuzu, he's going to fall eventually.  Particularly when Kakuzu has 5+ hearts worth of stamina, and never got tired from burning down a forest, and stamina isn't Itachi's strong suit.  

So while I definitely think Itachi is top notch, and could win if he had a raiton flowed sword, or shuriken, most of his raw power comes from his MS, and that's what I think he needs to effectively fight and kill Kakuzu 5 times.  I mean totsuga gg.  He'd probably not bother killing him 5 times when he can seal Kakuzu once.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Uchiha clan=Legendary
> Prodigy=Exceptionally good
> 
> I think he can put 2 and 2 together.



Unfortunately, Kakuzu is adding up to 4 when his opponent is like a 400...



> And why would Kakuzu get cocky when it's not IC. Even more so when he's alone.



Not getting cocky, persay--he just doesn't know how dangerous Itachi is, with the intel he's been given.



> 4 hearts going around spamming huge jutsu with Kakuzu attack with tentacles and anyone is eventually getting tagged.



Kakuzu never attacked with all those things at once; it's not in character, and probably costs him a lot of chakra for something he can't continue to do very long.



> 5v1. You can dodge 1 punch, dodging 5 at once is completely different thing.



Releasing Kakuzu's hearts from his body would just give Itachi a target practice session for his throwing weapons.



DaVizWiz said:


> Itachi already perceived through stone pillars, perceiving through a cloak is not a challenge.
> 
> Kakashi's inabilities go out the window, Itachi and his brother have the feats.



There's also the fact that Itachi and Sasuke are true Sharingan users/Uchiha with a greater aptitude for the eye, and not transplant guinea pigs...



IchLiebe said:


> Where did the stone pillars happen?



Kabuto fight; when Kabuto slipped away in the snakes and entered Sage Mode.

Itachi also determined that Sasuke was out of chakra using his Sharingan when they fought each other, right before Kirin.



> Again what feat one sharigan gets, they all get.



I agree, but I think this is another "lolKishi."

I.e., it can do it when it's convenient and not when it isn't.


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## N4GAmbush (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Again what feat one sharigan gets, they all get.



Point invalid, you just ruined it for yourself. Madara begs to differ: 


"I was the *only one* who could see through this as his enemy in the old days... *with my eye techniques*."

Hmm... I guess Madara was the only Uchiha with a sharingan back in his day


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## N4GAmbush (Feb 6, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> I agree, but I think this is another "lolKishi."


You can stop agreeing now, lol


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## Ersa (Feb 6, 2014)

Can Kakuzu even tag Itachi? He was failing to do so on a slower opponent while using Hidan as a meatshield. Hidan is not here in this scenario, with the use of a few clones and his superior speed Itachi can dodge his shit all day long. From a feats perspective he should eventually find an opponent to put him in genjutsu, disable Domu and shove a kunai through his head. From a portrayal aspect, the guy who defeated Orochimaru with his base Sharingan, one-panelled Deidara and briefly fought off KCM Naruto and B at the same time is not losing to Kakuzu of all people 

Base Itachi, mid difficulty.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 6, 2014)

Lol of course he can't hit Itachi, he couldn't even strike Shikamaru from a blindside angle [1]. Asuma jumped in front of his blitz [2]. Should we bring in the fact that he was blitzed by base Naruto fresh out of training and some shadow clones? 

Hidan, canonically is faster than Kakuzu because he held his own against Kakashi and took down Asuma while avoiding shadows.


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## Ersa (Feb 6, 2014)

Yeah and he relied on Hidan to get one good hit on Kakashi that wasn't even that good. _Magen: Jubaku Satsu _might actually work here come to think of it. It can ensnare multiple opponents.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> In the cave against Kabuto. The sharingan perceived through the various pillars in the cave.
> 
> Above I presented examples of Sasuke perceiving through his arm deep into his circulatory system, and again through the ground to find Deidara's mines.
> 
> Kakashi's inability to perceive Kakuzu's abnormal body structure is his own deficiency, Sasuke and Itachi have proven they can scan through and locate the abnormalities of his body, along with that of say Sasori's.



Or maybe Sasuke specifically checked for it. As that makes sense. Kakashi wasn't looking into his circulatory system because he's been an assassin most his life and knew he hit Kakuzu's heart. And they have not shown anything of the sort.



Nikushimi said:


> Unfortunately, Kakuzu is adding up to 4 when his opponent is like a 400...



What?



> Not getting cocky, persay--he just doesn't know how dangerous Itachi is, with the intel he's been given.



Kakuza has never underestimated anyone and even went as far as getting on Hidan's ass for doing it. He won't do it here. Show me one scan even suggesting he MIGHT do it.



> Kakuzu never attacked with all those things at once; it's not in character, and probably costs him a lot of chakra for something he can't continue to do very long.



He uses them as combos. Do you know what a combo is? Each of the hearts have their own chakra system.



> Releasing Kakuzu's hearts from his body would just give Itachi a target practice session for his throwing weapons.



Because his throwing weapons have hit fast moving targets...o wait no they haven't.



> Kabuto fight; when Kabuto slipped away in the snakes and entered Sage Mode.



And what says Kakashi can't do the same. He's never been in that situation.



> Itachi also determined that Sasuke was out of chakra using his Sharingan when they fought each other, right before Kirin.



And? Again, he probably looked specifically for it. Sasuke looked at his hand and it took 3 panels for him to realize what it was.



N4GAmbush said:


> Point invalid, you just ruined it for yourself. Madara begs to differ:
> 
> 
> "I was the *only one* who could see through this as his enemy in the old days... *with my eye techniques*."
> ...



Key word=MY. That means he had a specific jutsu, technique, or whatever. Most likely his MS which we've yet to see.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 6, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Lol of course he can't hit Itachi, he couldn't even strike Shikamaru from a blindside angle [1]. Asuma jumped in front of his blitz [2]. Should we bring in the fact that he was blitzed by base Naruto fresh out of training and some shadow clones?
> 
> Hidan, canonically is faster than Kakuzu because he held his own against Kakashi and took down Asuma while avoiding shadows.



lol no. Kakuzu can tag Itachi with his large AoE Jutsu. He can also tag him in close combat. Kakuzu is faster then Hidan. He actually pinned down Kakashi while Hidan was not able to. He never tried to blitz Shikamaru. He was casually chasing him, No Shunshin involved.


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## N4GAmbush (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Kakuza has never underestimated anyone and even went as far as getting on Hidan's ass for doing it. He won't do it here. Show me one scan even suggesting he MIGHT do it.


Sure thing, you just keep hurting yourself (: 




> Key word=MY. That means he had a specific jutsu, technique, or whatever. Most likely his MS which we've yet to see.


You were the one that said one sharingan feat is equal to all other sharingan feats, no? My point is that not all sharingan analyse things the same way, which you disagree with based on your statement. However, I've provided evidence to back up my statement and from you I hear nothing but speculation.


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## Kazekage94 (Feb 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Yeah and the fanboys post 90% more than the fans do. Nikushimi, Grimmjow, and countless others. They just post nonsense like base Itachi beating FUCKING KAKUZU.
> 
> Nikushimi's biography says he's the king of Itachifans. That's who I was replying to. How does me saying 10/10 no dif make me any different from the fuckload that say "Itachi soloes " in countless threads? You're just trying to start shit from literally fucking nothing. It's fucking sad when someone in the battledome doesn't even argue against you're post, I didn't mean for it to be so complicated.



Don't forget Bonly


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## Ersa (Feb 6, 2014)

Bonly, Strategoob, Komenos and Nikushimi are probably some of the best posters in this section. Can't say the same for the Itachi haters. I mean asstonine is good but he's not on the same level.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> *Bonly*, Strategoob, Komenos and Nikushimi are *probably some of the best posters in this section.* Can't say the same for the Itachi haters. I mean asstonine is good but he's not on the same level.



Aww you flatter me to much good sir  Now





As for the thread Kakuzu should win more times then not. Kakuzu could likely break out of any base genjutsu Itachi would use and Kakuzu can counter any elemental jutsu that Itachi would use. With Domu and the black spaghetti CQC isn't looking to favorable for Itachi either. Now add in his stamina and the fact that he needs to kill Kakuzu 5 times and things aren't looking good for Itachi imo. The only Akatsuki member(s) that Itachi can beat in base would be Hidan, unless you count in the Taka members for the short while they was in the group upon which you could add in Karin,Jugo, and Suigetsu(knowing Kishi ) imo.


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## N4GAmbush (Feb 6, 2014)

Bonly said:


> The only Akatsuki member(s) that Itachi can beat in base would be Hidan, unless you count in the Taka members for the short while they was in the group upon which you could add in Karin,Jugo, and Suigetsu(knowing Kishi ) imo.




Extreme Itachi underestimation or your just a really funny person, I can't tell...


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## Ersa (Feb 6, 2014)

Itachi beat Deidara in base 

I doubt Kakuzu can break his genjutsu, Orochimaru struggled to do so with a 5 in genjutsu and Kakuzu has a 3. Yeah not seeing it to be honest. Kakuzu also has no knowledge on Magen: Jubaku Satsu.


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## Master Sephiroth (Feb 6, 2014)

Anyway, if Itachi can take out the Domu heart, I can see him being able to avoid a lot and take out the other hearts. But the Domu heart is really the key. 



Ersatz said:


> Bonly, Strategoob, Komenos and Nikushimi are probably some of the best posters in this section. Can't say the same for the Itachi haters. I mean asstonine is good but he's not on the same level.


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## N4GAmbush (Feb 6, 2014)

And Kisame, don't forget about Kisame...


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> Extreme Itachi underestimation or your just a really funny person, I can't tell...



Well I have been told I'm quite funny. But it may come off as underestimating since I oversimplified it by alot, I mean Itachi will put up a decent fight for a while, I just don't see him winning it in the long run.



Ersatz said:


> Itachi beat Deidara in base



Well played sir, well played 



> I doubt Kakuzu can break his genjutsu, Orochimaru struggled to do so with a 5 in genjutsu and Kakuzu has a 3. Yeah not seeing it to be honest. Kakuzu also has no knowledge on Magen: Jubaku Satsu.



From what I remember(which may be wrong after all these years) the genjutsu stat involves being able to use genjutsu as well as knowledge of genjutsu and that alone doesn't really mean much overall when there are many types of genjutsu out there which may help certain deal with genjutsu better then others. Kakuzu has his other hearts which could arguably break him out if he did get put under a genjutsu which could make it easier for Kakuzu to break Genjutsu as oppose to Orochi. I also noticed you didn't tell me that I'm pretty also


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## Ersa (Feb 6, 2014)

It's logical in my opinion to assume if your knowledge and skill in using genjutsu is high then you should be quite good at breaking it. You may say Sakura doesn't use genjutsu yet seems more adept at breaking it but her knowledge of genjutsu is quite high as she noticed Kabuto's genjutsu. Kakuzu doesn't have good chakra control (like a medic) so his Kai won't be good, his genjutsu knowledge and usage is average at best and he has zero feats. Nothing suggests to me he can break a Sharingan genjutsu from one of the most proficient users in the manga. Deidara trained for years on end to gain the ability to break Sharingan genjutsu. Kakuzu was never noted to do such a thing.

Can't Itachi simply control him to disable his hearts while under genjutsu? Or have clones and EMS Sasuke-badgering crows stop the hearts from getting near him while Itachi shoves a kunai through his brain.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> It's logical in my opinion to assume if your knowledge and skill in using genjutsu is high then you should be quite good at breaking it. You may say Sakura doesn't use genjutsu yet seems more adept at breaking it but her knowledge of genjutsu is quite high as she noticed Kabuto's genjutsu.



That depends on the person. Nothing has been hinted that Orochi is actually good at using genjutsu, imo it seems more likely that he got that stat mainly due to his knowledge of them rather then his skill in using them being a factor in it(based on what we have seen of course).



> Kakuzu doesn't have good chakra control (like a medic) so his Kai won't be good, his genjutsu knowledge and usage is average at best and he has zero feats. Nothing suggests to me he can break a Sharingan genjutsu from one of the most proficient users in the manga. Deidara trained for years on end to gain the ability to break Sharingan genjutsu. Kakuzu was never noted to do such a thing.



Nothing suggest he doesn't have good chakra control, he may not be as good a medic but it's unlikely that this 90 something year old dude doesn't have good chakra control by now.



> Can't Itachi simply control him to disable his hearts while under genjutsu?



Not with base Sharingan genjutsu imo. He hasn't controlled anyone with base Sharingan genjutsu besides Deidara(IIRC) when he made Deidara use his own clay against him. I'm not seeing what Itachi would do to make Kakuzu "disable his heart", best Itachi could do is make Kakuzu think he killed Itachi thus he stops using their powers shortly but he wouldn't disable them completely and with gaining knowledge on the fight Kakuzu could keep up Domu after a surprise attack.



> Or have clones and EMS Sasuke-badgering crows stop the hearts from getting near him while Itachi shoves a kunai through his brain.



Two of the shown hearts have huge AoE jutsu which can be trouble and we have seen them be flattened by Choji and still make their way to him. I'm not seeing why Kakuzu would send out all of his hearts for some reason and they would be to far away from him let alone Itachi making enough clones and summoning enough crows for it to be an actually problem for the hearts as well as actually being able to stab Kakuzu in the brain when he can use Domu.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 6, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Can Kakuzu even tag Itachi? He was failing to do so on a slower opponent while using Hidan as a meatshield. Hidan is not here in this scenario, with the use of a few clones and his superior speed Itachi can dodge his shit all day long. From a feats perspective he should eventually find an opponent to put him in genjutsu, disable Domu and shove a kunai through his head. From a portrayal aspect, the guy who defeated Orochimaru with his base Sharingan, one-panelled Deidara and briefly fought off KCM Naruto and B at the same time is not losing to Kakuzu of all people
> 
> Base Itachi, mid difficulty.



Kakuzu mentioned the sharingan being a key to that, but there are a few other things to consider.  The first is that Kakashi had a bunch of trees to use as foot stools to leap over the attacks, and the second is that Kakashi can doton underground, which is how I personally think Kakashi escaped from the final blast that seemed to engulf him, before he popped back up to stop gian bolts with a double raikiri.  

In this location, he has the former, but a lacks the latter, and if Kakuzu keeps blasting long range jutsu like this, and this, and this, and this inferno, he'll wind up burning down the forest.  Which isn't a big deal for him, because he's a freak, but it will be for Itachi when his stepping branches gradually become more on fire.  Which is what happened to Kakashi.  He was fine until Kakuzu blew up all his trees and he had to jump through free space, and I obviously think Itachi can run away and jump away like Kakashi or better, but this scan reminds me of the jumping dilemma.  Ninjas can't re-direct in mid-air.  You can show scans of how Kakuzu couldn't hit chunin, or get Kakashi with Hidan's support, but he certainly did nab a defensive Kakashi all by his lonesome right there, and Kakashi is no chunin.  We also have a scan of how Kakuzu was going to casually toast those same chunin with a gian bolt.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2014)

N4GAmbush said:


> Sure thing, you just keep hurting yourself (:



That's not underestimation LOL. He even said that FRS was a monstrous jutsu and switched to long range mode just to avoid it. He was surprised kids beat him but he did not underestimate them at all.



> You were the one that said one sharingan feat is equal to all other sharingan feats, no? My point is that not all sharingan analyse things the same way, which you disagree with based on your statement. However, I've provided evidence to back up my statement and from you I hear nothing but speculation.



I'm sorry, I forgot some people's comprehension isn't as good. It applies to base sharingan, 2 tomoe and 3 tomoe, however MS is something completely different as every one has different MS jutsu's. I'm not providing speculation, I'm using common sense. But Kakashi hinted in part one that sharingan could see inside the body to a certain point.



Ersatz said:


> Bonly, Strategoob, Komenos and Nikushimi are probably some of the best posters in this section. Can't say the same for the Itachi haters. I mean asstonine is good but he's not on the same level.



All Itachifans, how am I not surprised. But come on, even Niku agrees I'm smart. I even got the quote .



Nikushimi said:


> IchLiebe is actually pretty smart


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## Ersa (Feb 6, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Kakuzu mentioned the sharingan being a key to that, but there are a few other things to consider.  The first is that Kakashi had a bunch of trees to use as foot stools to leap over the attacks, and the second is that Kakashi can doton underground, which is how I personally think Kakashi escaped from the final blast that seemed to engulf him, before he popped back up to stop gian bolts with a double raikiri.
> 
> In this location, he has the former, but a lacks the latter, and if Kakuzu keeps blasting long range jutsu like this, and this, and this, and this inferno, he'll wind up burning down the forest.  Which isn't a big deal for him, because he's a freak, but it will be for Itachi when his stepping branches gradually become more on fire.  Which is what happened to Kakashi.  He was fine until Kakuzu blew up all his trees and he had to jump through free space, and I obviously think Itachi can run away and jump away like Kakashi or better, but this scan reminds me of the jumping dilemma.  Ninjas can't re-direct in mid-air.  You can show scans of how Kakuzu couldn't hit chunin, or get Kakashi with Hidan's support, but he certainly did nab a defensive Kakashi all by his lonesome right there, and Kakashi is no chunin.  We also have a scan of how Kakuzu was going to casually toast those same chunin with a gian bolt.


Sharingan is helpful yes, Itachi is a lot more nimble on his feet then Immortals Arc Kakashi on top of having a vastly superior Shunshin. We're talking about the guy who reacted faster to Muki Tensei then EMS Sasuke at one stage. Combine this with clone use to stay alive, remember Karasu clones are far less taxing then Shadow clones and Itachi has a stamina boost here in the OP and Kakuzu isn't tagging Itachi. He can see the blast coming from a mile away, swap himself with a clone and run.

Itachi won't be running I feel, he'll need to stay close to get him in genjutsu. And seeing how Naruto tricked him with ease I can't see someone of Itachi's calibre who can literally read minds according to Kabuto not getting Kakuzu to fuck up.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 6, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Sharingan is helpful yes, Itachi is a lot more nimble on his feet then Immortals Arc Kakashi on top of having a vastly superior Shunshin. We're talking about the guy who reacted faster to Muki Tensei then EMS Sasuke at one stage. Combine this with clone use to stay alive, remember Karasu clones are far less taxing then Shadow clones and Itachi has a stamina boost here in the OP and Kakuzu isn't tagging Itachi. He can see the blast coming from a mile away, swap himself with a clone and run.
> 
> Itachi won't be running I feel, he'll need to stay close to get him in genjutsu. And seeing how Naruto tricked him with ease I can't see someone of Itachi's calibre who can literally read minds according to Kabuto not getting Kakuzu to fuck up.



Aside from the genjutsu counter, I don't see a problem with Itachi running away.  He can keep using clone feints and substitutions and shunshins, but even less taxing clones still cost chakra.

But the thing is, like you said, Itachi has to stay close and be close to Kakuzu, and that's an issue when Kakuzu can make everything in front of him blow up into this.  Itachi can't advance into that, or be around that.  Even though Kakashi jumped probably a good 60 feet into the air here, or however tall you think those giant trees are,  he still wasn't over it. I fail to see where Itachi can go or substitute to but away from Kakuzu.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 6, 2014)

Base Itachi can't even hurt Kakuzu, I don't see how this is even debatable.


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## Turrin (Feb 6, 2014)

The problem is due to Kakuzu's durability thx to Jingo and Doton Domu, none of Base Itachi's Ninjutsu or Taijutsu is going to be very effective if at all here. With that said given how Kakashi avoided many of Kakuzu's elemental blasts, Itachi could also probably dodge & clone feint his way around a number of Kakuzu's attacks, but eventually he is going to get overwhelmed due to the sheer AOE of the masked beats, while also having to watch out for Kakuzu's tendrils, which have a pretty effective AOE/Range themselves, especially if Kakuzu goes long-range mode.

As for Itachi's Genjutsu, I'm honestly not sure if Kakuzu can even be effected by Genjtusu in the first place, as Genjutsu works off the nerves in ones brain and I'm not sure Kakuzu even has that considering him being a massive of pure Tentacles; than their is also the question of whether his masked beasts can act as his partners or continue to fight while Kakuzu is in Genjutsu thus interrupting the caster. So I think even MS Itachi would be hard pressed to defeat Kakuzu w/ Genjutsu, certainly Base Itachi does not stand much chance of doing so. The only Genjutsu that I feel has a chance is Izanami, since it seems to defy all logic and therefore might work despite Kakuzu's unique body make up, however Izanami is not very accessible or reliable in battle, so I doubt more oftent han not Itachi is pulling that off before he gets beaten; though it's one slim chance for Itachi to pull out victory (or a draw) here.

Though in al seriousness aside from the Izanami long-shot Kakuzu should win most matches with Mid diff. Quite honestly I think Itachi needs Susano'o to decisively defeat Kakuzu, as otherwise I Kakuzu has the fire power to take him down and i'm not sure anything other than Totsuka in Itachi's arsenal can reliably put Kakuzu; since Genjutsu of any type is questionable and given how Kishi trolls Amaterasu, I could see Kakuzu just shedding that part of his body Amaterasu hits by extending the tentacles it lands on out and away from him, even turning the flames back at Itachi, than just removing those tentacles from his body.


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 7, 2014)

Itachi could potentially win with genjutsu and tactical superiority, but I don't see how he'd pull it off with the size of some of Kakuzu's aoe's.

I do think kakuzu has a brain and is just as susceptible as the next guy when it comes to genjutsu but the additional hearts that reside within his body and that have shown sentience on their own maybe capable of breaking Kakuzu out using a psuedo jinnchuriki partner method.

If he had Tsukiyiomi he'd be able to get around that though. 

Itachi needs MS to win convincingly imo. Kakuzu has a reasonable out to the genjutsu Itachi has available here.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 7, 2014)

Does Kakuzu even have brain that can be affected by Genjutsu (as thats *literally* Itachi's only shot)..... seeing the man had threads coming out of his _head_ 

If genjutsu doesn't work, well Itachi runs around until his stamina gives and then is nuked off the landscape by elemental combo's


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## ARGUS (Feb 7, 2014)

Kakuzu wins this high diff 

Him knowing that itachi is an uchiha prodigy,,, would make him cautious about genjutsu threats 
Kakuzu having 5 hearts puts him at an advantage,, plus none of base itachis attacks are strong enough to break Doton: Domu,,,, Itachis katon is probably the main offense he would be using and i think that its not powerful,, moreover itachi has to defeat kakuzu 5 times,,, which isnt an easy task 
Kakuzu is suited for mid/long range combat and thats what he would do,,, so that he doesnt fall for any genjutsu at all 
The knowledge gives kakuzu a bigger advantage since he is quite versatile and it will take itachi sometime to figure out his mechanics,,,  
Kakuzu has a better defense,, offense,, durability and stamina to defeat this nerfed itachi


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## Jad (Feb 7, 2014)

I highly doubt Sharingan Genjutsu is going to work with a guy who has 4 hearts that work autonomously from the source. With that said and Genjutsu out of the picture, Itachi loses this battle. Itachi may be faster and quicker to dodge his techniques in base, but eventually they will get him, especially considering Itachi's base arsenal without MS is nothing to Kakuzu.

Look at Kakashi for instance, it wasn't like he Genjutsu trolled Kakuzu, and this guy was matching Obito, the same guy who took control of the Kyuubi.​


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## The World (Feb 7, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Doton: Domu is the only thing that will cause trouble for Itachi. His Ninjutsu and weapons are too weak to get past it easily. Itachi takes this with genjutsu trolling.



wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttt?????


Anyways Kakuzu rips Itachi's heart out and sticks his head on a pike


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## SharinganKisame (Feb 7, 2014)

If Itachi manages to survive Kakuzu's first combo katon zukokku and futon atsugai, theres no way he'll be able to resist to raiton gian. 

Seriously stop overestimating Itachi and making fights such as base itachi vs kakuzu or base itachi vs kisame...like he has a chance against them without MS.


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## N4GAmbush (Feb 7, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> That's not underestimation LOL. He even said that FRS was a monstrous jutsu and switched to long range mode just to avoid it. He was surprised kids beat him but he did not underestimate them at all.


There is a large difference between not wanting to die and underestimating someone. In any case, Kakuzu sounds like *every* villain at the end of Scooby Doo talking about how they get beat by some meddling kids. However, I don't feel like debating over this point as I don't find it to be that important.



> I'm sorry, I forgot some people's comprehension isn't as good. It applies to base sharingan, 2 tomoe and 3 tomoe, however MS is something completely different as every one has different MS jutsu's. I'm not providing speculation, I'm using common sense. But Kakashi hinted in part one that sharingan could see inside the body to a certain point.


Yes, clearly some people's comprehension isn't good. Your the one that is implying Madara was talking about Mangekyo in the first place when it was never actually addressed. He simply states "Eye Techniques" which are gained from the one, two, and three tomoe version of the sharingan and of course Mangekyo as well. You have yet to provide evidence that can coerce me into believing your point.


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## Rosencrantz (Feb 8, 2014)

I consider these two to be on similar levels with Kakuzu being more in between Low/Mid Kage with Base Itachi being more firmly planted on the low kage level. However, Kakuzu is a horrible match up for Itachi. Itachi relies on shuriken, taijutsu, katons, suitons, bunshins, and genjutsu in his base form. Doton Domu makes the majority of those things useless. Dotons are strong against suitons and Itachi does not have any high powered katons. He is easily tanking any shuriken or taijutsu as well as any surprise bunshin attacks/exploding bunshin. Doton: Domu kills Itachi's arsenal here and Kakuzu has not even gone on the offensive. He can use genjutsu but with the multiple chakra networks from different shinobi flowing into him that are even sentient when Kakuzu is "dead" genjutsu should be child's play to break out of.

Kakuzu with just his single doton and the fact that the hearts are within in him has enough to counter everything Itachi can do. He can just wear Itachi down with some jiongu attacks and trying to get up close with taijutsu. Itachi will run out of chakra trying to kill him and will die to Kakuzu with mild difficulty. Itachi is just a bad match up due to his lack of power in his base arsenal. Even with the MS, he would need tsukiyomi and amaterasu and potentially a little Susano to win due to his fighting style and incredible resilience.


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## asstonine (Feb 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Base Itachi can't even hurt Kakuzu, I don't see how this is even debatable.



It's not, idk why this is 4 pages...  I guess itachi fanboys can't stand the truth!

The only thing Itachi has is genjutsu, and there is no reason to believe Kakuzu wouldn't be able to casually break it!  Even, if you want to argue he couldn't, it wouldn't be sufficient to kill kakuzu.


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