# Marco vs. King & Queen



## Shanks (Mar 5, 2021)

This takes place in a massive island. No distractions, no one else around.

Distance Apart: 100 meters

Intel: IC

Who wins and what difficulty? 

==

Just curious how this fight would go if those three isn't distracted by the roof top battle.


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## Brian (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco wins high diff

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4 | Winner 1 | GODA 1


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## Strobacaxi (Mar 5, 2021)

As shown in manga

Marco runs out of stamina in an hour or 2
Gets wrecked afterwards

King gets minimal damage, Queen gets more serious but not super serious damage

High diff for duo due to Marco's fruit being the stall master

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco basically implied he would lose if it continues, perospero also noticed how tired Marco looks. Marco inflicts significant damage on them both but not enough to keep them down. Duo wins high diff.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Corax (Mar 5, 2021)

How close are they to the sea?Because if close Marco  will just kick Queen into the sea (like he did this chapter but into the sea instead of the building). Later her will proceed to upper mid. to high. diff King as normal. If they are far away from the sea I can see him giving them high. diff or so but eventually loosing.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Bobybobster (Mar 5, 2021)

he looses high diff from what we've seen so far.

His regen gets strained too much because he has to split his attention between the two of them.

Though currently his flames are also being spread out to allies, so he might fare a little better without having to worry about that.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 5, 2021)

Duo wins high diff.


Corax said:


> How close are they to the sea?Because if close Marco just will kick Queen into the sea (like he did this chapter but into the sea instead of the building). Later her will proceed to upper mid. to high. diff King as normal. If they are far away from the sea I can see him giving them high. diff or so but eventually loosing.


This is such an outlandish opinion. Its like I put Law as winner against any top tier because of Shambles to the sea is possible.


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## Corax (Mar 5, 2021)

Kylo Ren said:


> Duo wins high diff.
> 
> This is such an outlandish opinion. Its like I put Law as winner against any top tier because of Shambles to the sea is possible.


It is a valid tactics and was used several times vs DF users in the past.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sloan (Mar 5, 2021)

Duo would win eventually.  That's almost certain based on the chapter.  Marco is still stronger than either of them individually 1vs1.


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## Beast (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco wasted a lot of stamina doing the whole AoE of healing in the fodder, clashed with BM just before it.

they would still win but nothing short of High diff, which goes to show Marcos strength.

Reactions: Like 8 | Agree 3


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## Turrin (Mar 5, 2021)

From what we have seen I favor Marco to win if he’s not having wasted stamina on healing people and fighting BM

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Corax (Mar 5, 2021)

Beast said:


> Marco wasted a lot of stamina doing the whole AoE of healing in the fodder, clashed with BM just before it.


This is also a good point. And he is still healing them (some fodders in this chapter had his blue flame on them).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 5, 2021)

Corax said:


> This is also a good point. And he is still healing them (some fodders in this chapter had his blue flame on them).


Dude you came up with a scenario using the sea but forgot the most basic about obd fights lol


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 5, 2021)

Seeing as how he's already clashed with Linlin, is sustaining mass healing of a large group of people, and still maintaining the offensive push against Queen and King at the same time, I'd say The Duo wins high diff, but I'd leave the door open in a straight two on one for Marco to pull an extreme difficulty win. It's a beautiful showing regardless.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## Mihawk (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco could take this if there were no outside interferences, but I don't want to undervalue/underrate this duo. At the very least, he's shown he can hold back both of them.

His superiority over them is clear, and even Queen wondered if he was invincible. They've been getting blitzed by him, and it's implied that it's going to take Perospero to interfere in order to take him down for good.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Lawliet (Mar 5, 2021)

Anyone that thinks Marco would win is a victim of short term favorable portrayal.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 5, 2021)

King and Queen are shown to be on equal power level. Both took Marco attacks twice with first attack being named attacks and both of them were shown to be fine. If Queen is weaker than King, he would be taken out first.

Sanji always mid diff his opponent. If Sanji mid diffs Queen, Sanji automatically can mid diff King too. That means both King and Queen are weaker than End of Wano Sanji indiidually. So Marco should win fighting two calamities who are weaker than End of Wano Sanji individually.


The only way calamity duo wins is if Sanji needs team up to beat Queen, that means Queen or King is stronger than Sanji individually which means calamity duo wins high diff.


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## Bobybobster (Mar 5, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> King and Queen are shown to be on equal power level. Both took Marco attacks twice with first attack being named attacks and both of them were shown to be fine. If Queen is weaker than King, he would be taken out first.
> 
> Sanji always mid diff his opponent. If Sanji mid diffs Queen, Sanji automatically can mid diff King too. That means both King and Queen are weaker than End of Wano Sanji indiidually. So Marco should win fighting two calamities who are weaker than End of Wano Sanji individually.
> 
> ...


I see, it's a shame that sanji is still weaker than an exhausted DR g3 luffy though.

tbh I think this list makes the most sense : nerfed g3 DR luffy > marco > king/queen >= sanji

Maybe eos sanji will finally surpass DR luffy


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 5, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> I see, it's a shame that sanji is still weaker than an exhausted DR g3 luffy though.
> 
> tbh I think this list makes the most sense : nerfed g3 DR luffy > marco > king/queen >= sanji
> 
> Maybe eos sanji will finally surpass DR luffy


Too bad Oda disagrees with you. Sanji would solo Queen or King which makes Queen or King weaker than Sanji individually.


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## Bobybobster (Mar 5, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> Too bad Oda disagrees with you. Sanji would solo Queen or King which makes Queen or King weaker than Sanji individually.


we'll see, but we can both agree that all 3 would loose to a nerfed g3 DR luffy. I mean that dude bruised a fkign admiral, can't even see eos sanji doing that.

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Duhul10 (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco gets destroyed in the long run. His fruit keeps him in the game for some time. The dinosaurs take some damage, but they seem to be great tanks.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bernkastel (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco soloes...he's not only fighting King and Queen but also random gifters offering distraction to the calamities...plus he's healing the samurai constantly wasting big amounts of stamina there too...in a clean 2v1 with no interruptions he'll blitz the shit out of Queen and take him down asap facetanking anything King throws with his regen...then it's only the S&M cosplayer and Marco should plenty of stamina left for him...

Probably once my fangasm calms down a bit I'll be a bit more forgiving on the duo and give them the win but today Marco wrecks their anuses so bad they'll need wheelchairs for months  :blu

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bobybobster (Mar 5, 2021)

WB pirates stay winning

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Sloan (Mar 5, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> we'll see, but we can both agree that all 3 would loose to a nerfed g3 DR luffy. I mean that dude bruised a fkign admiral, can't even see eos sanji doing that.




Gold.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 5, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> we'll see, but we can both agree that all 3 would loose to a nerfed g3 DR luffy. I mean that dude bruised a fkign admiral, can't even see eos sanji doing that.


And Cracker trashed Luffy who bruised non admiral. BMP is on another level compared to other Yonko crews. Can't see other YC trashes someone who bruises non serious admiral.


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## Bobybobster (Mar 5, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> And Cracker trashed Luffy who bruised non admiral. BMP is on another level compared to other Yonko crews. Can't see other YC trashes someone who bruises non serious admiral.


woah relax, we already said g3 dr luffy is too much for sanji, lets not bring in cracker.

I don't even think eos sanji in the one piece sequel can take on cracker, the slayer of an admiral bruiser.


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 5, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> woah relax, we already said g3 dr luffy is too much for sanji, lets not bring in cracker.
> 
> I don't even think eos sanji in the one piece sequel can take on cracker, the slayer of an admiral bruiser.


I think you are the one who needs to relax because I said that Fujitora was not serious just like Kizaru was not serious against Marco. 

Also if you have no answer how other yonko would destroy Biscuit Soldieer with their lack of AP you can just complain to Oda for making Cracker that strong. 

Edit:
Also if you have no answer how other YC would destroy Biscuit Soldieer with their lack of AP you can just complain to Oda for making Cracker that strong.


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## Siskebabas (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco cant win againts two, no matter fresh or tired, he said it himself two opponents of billion berriers is bit too much, also we dont know if Queen and King fighting at their max capacity as they havent revealed hybrid forms


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## Tenma (Mar 5, 2021)

Duo high diffs. Marco gasses out but not before giving them hell.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bobybobster (Mar 5, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> I think you are the one who needs to relax because I said that Fujitora was not serious just like Kizaru was not serious against Marco.
> 
> Also if you have no answer how other yonko would destroy Biscuit Soldieer with their lack of AP you can just complain to Oda for making Cracker that strong.


you can tell how triggered someone is by the number of smilies they spam lol

>can't see another yonko breaking biscuits

gawd dayum son, just which cracker are we talking about?


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 5, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> you can tell how triggered someone is by the number of smilies they spam lol
> 
> >can't see another yonko breaking biscuits
> 
> gawd dayum son, just which cracker are we talking about?


I see you are butthurt because I made Jozu can't destroy Biscuit Soldier thread. Like I said if you have no answer why other YC like Jozu can't destroy Biscuit Soldier, just complain to Oda. No need to troll that EOS Sanji would lose to Cracker. What a crybaby.

Yonko has portrayal to be above Cracker but YC three lol.


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## Bobybobster (Mar 5, 2021)

Dragon D Xebec said:


> I see you are butthurt because I made Jozu can't destroy Biscuit Soldier thread. Like I said if you have no answer why other YC like Jozu can't destroy Biscuit Soldier, just complain to Oda. No need to troll that EOS Sanji would lose to Cracker. What a crybaby.


jozu the admiral bleeder is in a tier of his own, what do you mean bro? 


*Spoiler*: __ 



man this guy is really insecure lol


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 5, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> jozu the admiral bleeder is in a tier of his own, what do you mean bro?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


With cheaphot lol. Luffy also bled Garp with cheapshot. Crocodile who was weaker than Doflamingo could still land afteer he took weak ass Brilliant Punk and Brilliant Punk is on the same level as Red Hawk.

On the other hand Biscuit Soldier overpowered Elephant Gun which is more powerful than Red Hawk.


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## Draco Bolton (Mar 5, 2021)

This thread is a battle of fandom (assuming King & Queen have fans) & chickenbros are the majority  



Marco probably high diff King in 1 vs 1.

Mid diff Queen in 1 vs 1.

Together (hoping there is some teamworks between them) they high diff Marco in the long run. New good offensives feats+ regeneration ability will make it a long and ruthless battle

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Nikseng (Mar 5, 2021)

I'd like to point out that Marco has already been exhausting himself by engaging BM, and using mass healing AOE flames to counter Queen's virus (flames that he is still using as of now).
Even then, I'm pretty confident that Marco hasn't gone all out yet and will do so if push come to shove; ie : High end flame moves, hybrid and/or awakening.

Assuming this is fresh Marco going all out with no distractions, I can see a scenario where he doesn't manage to put them out before exhausting himself, and getting enventually tricked/overwhelmed.

I can also see Marco going all out and using a high end move to finish one of them, leaving it to a 1vs1 where he would win high-extreme diff - given that he will be exhausted.

Can go either way overall, favoring Marco more times than not as I assume he'll show even more stuff later on, otherwise, K/Q high to extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco fans and admiral fans have formed an alliance !! Canon can't stop them! Will the next chapter show them the light? Stay tuned !!

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Joe Maiafication (Mar 5, 2021)

Is Marco in his prime ?


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 5, 2021)

Duo mid diffs as per feats and portrayal.


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## Mihawk (Mar 5, 2021)

Joe Maya said:


> Is Marco in his prime ?



Marco should be at his peak right now.


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## savior2005 (Mar 5, 2021)

Has King shown his Hybrid form and used it against Marco yet?


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## Mihawk (Mar 5, 2021)

Sometimes I wonder what you dudes are reading.

Based on this chapter alone, there's no indication that King & Queen would "destroy" Marco.


*Spoiler*: __ 














For the most part, it is _King & Queen who are struggling_ against him lol.

If Marco wasn't injured going up against 2 of the strongest Commanders in Kaido's crew, then either:

1) He is a god.
2) King & Queen are fodder.

Neither is the case.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dellinger (Mar 5, 2021)

People jumping the gun once again.


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## Beast (Mar 5, 2021)

Once Queen and King show more, it will drop to a solid mid diff imo.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 5, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Sometimes I wonder what you dudes are reading.
> 
> Based on this chapter alone, there's no indication that King & Queen would "destroy" Marco.
> 
> ...


A yonko would be uninjured against his top 2. Hell, we know as a fact that BM going nuts would have completely destroyed her empire.


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## Rasendori (Mar 5, 2021)

Marco is LITERALLY also using his strength to heal the allies. In what world does he lose to them without distractions lol.


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## Mihawk (Mar 5, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> A yonko would be uninjured against his top 2. Hell, we know as a fact that BM going nuts would have completely destroyed her empire.



Why do you guys all think I ever said Marco was Yonko level?? Clearly he loses to any of the Yonko and the majority of the Admirals.

But he's not just holding back Kaido's top 2 by himself after facing Big Mom. He's actually been sonning them for more than several panels, over the course of a few chapters. So far, they can't keep up with him in terms of speed or physical strength. He is making King sweat and pushing Queen to his breaking point (frustration-wise), and he's doing it while he himself is smiling and unfazed.

Sure, he's getting injured and clearly exerting himself. But that doesn't make it any less impressive considering anyone below the Yonko or Admirals would likely have lost by now. Hell, they certainly wouldn't be controlling this fight to the degree that he has been. And it's implied that it will take a 3rd high level YC to interfere just to change the direction or outcome of the current fight.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## convict (Mar 5, 2021)

There is one thing about Oda's mentality in drawing fights that people don't quite understand it seems.

And this is coming from someone who really likes Marco and has been parading his strength over Kata/King for a while.

Oda loves making the good guys seem dominant in a clash even if the good guys aren't necessarily stronger.

In Sanji vs Vergo he had Sanji kick him around twice. In Smoker vs Vergo he had Smoker beat Vergo's ass for most of the fight.

But Sanji was the one limping and relieved when Vergo left. Smoker was the one who was out of commission. Scabbards were the ones who ended up offpaneled after their initial dominant display. Oda doesn't like to show the good guys getting beaten up as much.

This was similar. Clearly Marco is being shown spanking King and Queen but as with prior, Oda is instilling in us that he can't make this last and will likely lose.

Additionally, doing ok in a 2 on 1 fight doesn't mean you are individually on another level. See Apoo vs Zoro/Drake or Zoro vs Kaku/Jyabura. In those cases the individual combatants were barely holding their own whereas Marco is appearing dominant. This shows that individually Marco is for sure stronger than both. But remember that neither Queen nor King are going all out. They haven't been pressurized enough yet to do so.

If King goes hybrid I am confident he will be able to give close to high difficulty to Marco alone but will obviously lose. If Queen goes all out likely close to mid.

With that said, this chapter should put to rest that all first commanders are equivalent.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 5, 2021)

Not sure yet.


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## Lord Stark (Mar 5, 2021)

I'd lean on the duo high diff assuming Marco does not have a proper hybrid/awakened form


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## Shanks (Mar 5, 2021)

I don't get why people think current Marco holding off King and Queen is easier than fighting them all out. Marco's role is to make sure both King and Queen don't run off and help Kaido or distract chopper. This is alot harder than fighting them 2 v 1 with no distractions.

Marco can kick either King or Queen across the island (similar to what he's doing now), isolate either one and beat the shit out of them and repeat.

I do see a scenario where by the duo can win with better team work, but as it stands, I give it to Marco more time than not with very high difficulties.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Dunno (Mar 5, 2021)

Duo takes it with lower end of high diff.


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## Isazi (Mar 5, 2021)

He gets trashed. Don't believe the hype.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 5, 2021)

convict said:


> In Smoker vs Vergo he had Smoker beat Vergo's ass for most of the fight.


Your point is correct, but I don't see that as a full assessment of Smoker's skills and strength, he was sandbagging for most of that fight to get Law's heart back. I've taken a lot of ass whoopings in a game, spamming mug for gear.


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## itsxtray (Mar 5, 2021)

Shanks said:


> This takes place in a massive island. No distractions, no one else around.
> 
> Distance Apart: 100 meters
> 
> ...


We can't know for sure until they go hybrid


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## Shanks (Mar 5, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> We can't know for sure until they go hybrid


Once they all go hybrid, you will say 'we can't know for sure until they use awakening'.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## itsxtray (Mar 5, 2021)

Shanks said:


> Once they all go hybrid, you will say 'we can't know for sure until they use awakening'.


Nope, because they're not guaranteed to have an awakening but we know for sure all zoans have a hybrid.

We all know hybrid is the best form zoans have when it actually comes to fighting. But King and Queen are in base & full zoan respectively. Marco's in partial hybrid (his lower body, which makes sense since he uses kicks, and is using his mythic powers.) While King & Queen are fighting suboptimally for whatever reason.

Every attack Marco has landed on King has been in his base form, and that phoenix claw he landed on Queen was also against his base form, how can we properly judge this when we know hybrid is the best form?

You think he'd be clowning on them the exact same way if they were both using hybrid right now? The ancient Zoan buff is that negligible? You can believe that but i respectfully disagree


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## GrizzlyClaws (Mar 6, 2021)

I like my occassional Marco wank too but this chapter made it clear he has no chance whatsoever against both of them together. In fact I'd wager King alone is a high diff fight for Marco.

In this chapter Oda showed Marco very positively, and if you only looked at the pictures you'd think he is dominating them easily but if you actually spared a second to read the dialogue you will know in fact Marco is the one getting beat on (offpannel), _not_ the two Beast Commanders. He is stalling them, but they are both pretty fresh while not even going all out, meanwhile Marco is already on the ropes and abusing his DF ability to the max.

There are multiple character statements in this chapter that highlight this but the most telling imo is when Queen says "What a persistent wretch!" which means the Duo is putting him down, he just won't _stay_ down.

Not to take anything away from Marco though, he is doing gods work out there and without him King and Queen would have been free to steamroll everyone in the live floor. But the only reason we saw Marco doing so well in this chapter is because his time to fall is nearing and Oda likes to show the good guys in a good light before that happens, as convict correctly said above.



convict said:


> Oda loves making the good guys seem dominant in a clash even if the good guys aren't necessarily stronger.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## killfox (Mar 6, 2021)

GrizzlyClaws said:


> I like my occassional Marco wank too but this chapter made it clear he has no chance whatsoever against both of them together. In fact I'd wager King alone is a high diff fight for Marco.
> 
> In this chapter Oda showed Marco very positively, and if you only looked at the pictures you'd think he is dominating them easily but if you actually spared a second to read the dialogue you will know in fact Marco is the one getting beat on (offpannel), _not_ the two Beast Commanders. He is stalling them, but they are both pretty fresh while not even going all out, meanwhile Marco is already on the ropes and abusing his DF ability to the max.
> 
> ...


I’m not so sure that this proves he has no chance. There are multiple things to consider.

1. He’s not trying to defeat them, just hold them off which takes more stamina than just a fight.
2. He had previously clashed with a yonkou which took stamina 
3. He is currently still healing people and healed many people which took stamina as well.


If this was fully unrestricted Marco with full stamina he would perform much better. Keep in mind he’s been holding back these two for multiple chapters now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## itsxtray (Mar 6, 2021)

killfox said:


> I’m not so sure that this proves he has no chance. There are multiple things to consider.
> 
> 1. He’s not trying to defeat them, just hold them off which takes more stamina than just a fight.


He's not knocking them around with his named attacks because he's trying to stall, stalling is whats happening because he can't put them down but he's trying to.


killfox said:


> 2. He had previously clashed with a yonkou which took stamina


True


killfox said:


> 3. He is currently still healing people and healed many people which took stamina as well.


True


killfox said:


> If this was fully unrestricted Marco with full stamina he would perform much better. Keep in mind he’s been holding back these two for multiple chapters now.


If this was fully unrestricted they'd both be in hybrid instead of dicking around in base & full zoan.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 6, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Duo mid diffs as per *feats* and *portrayal*.


Neither of these are in their favor it’s just logically kaido’s top two should beat whitebeard’s number one


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 7, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Nope, because they're not guaranteed to have an awakening but we know for sure all zoans have a hybrid.
> 
> We all know hybrid is the best form zoans have when it actually comes to fighting. But King and Queen are in base & full zoan respectively. Marco's in partial hybrid (his lower body, which makes sense since he uses kicks, and is using his mythic powers.) While King & Queen are fighting suboptimally for whatever reason.
> 
> ...


But isn't Marco's preferred wings and legs transformed state his hybrid form?

Wouldn't it be weird if throughout Marineford and this battle he didn't amp up to his most powerful state?

Or do you think he's holding back his hybrid for when they go hybrid?


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## Captain Altintop (Mar 7, 2021)

It seems like Marco equals both at same time ... I think I need to decrase King a little bit in my list after the next chaps depending on how well he is doing ...


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## itsxtray (Mar 7, 2021)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> But isn't Marco's preferred wings and legs transformed state his hybrid form?


I don't think so thats why i called it partial hybrid. All hybrid forms so far have the top of the head as a beast and the chin as human, a human chest with the back being animal, with hind legs.

The only part of Marco that reflects this is his hind legs, his head and arms havent done a beast transformation.


Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Wouldn't it be weird if throughout Marineford and this battle he didn't amp up to his most powerful state?


Marineford is a clusterfuck of inconsistency and illogic. Marco can heal but he didn't heal Whitebeard after Squard stabbed him? He didn't use blue bird not once, and when he kicked people he used his regular leg instead of phoenix claw, (a named attack) none of that makes sense for the most important battle of these people's lives but it's what happened.


Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Or do you think he's holding back his hybrid for when they go hybrid?


Yes, see: human chin, neck, pecs, abs, & inside of arms but beast on the back, head, and fore of the body. All hybrids we've seen except Marco look like this, i'm banking he has a "full" hybrid form as well:

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 7, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> I don't think so thats why i called it partial hybrid. All hybrid forms so far have the top of the head as a beast and the chin as human, a human chest with the back being animal, with hind legs.
> 
> The only part of Marco that reflects this is his hind legs, his head and arms havent done a beast transformation.
> 
> ...


So with all that in mind, even if he's starting to gas, he's reserving one more step up in power for the final push.  His Daddy didn't raise no fool baby.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## itsxtray (Mar 7, 2021)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> So with all that in mind, even if he's starting to gas, he's reserving one more step up in power for the final push.  His Daddy didn't raise no fool baby.


Yep, at least that's what i believe. I just wanna see all 3 of them go all out in hybrid with no holding back

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nikseng (Mar 7, 2021)

What are you guys on ?

King is still recovering from the shots and dripping blood while Queen has a *huge cut *on his face and is all bruised up.
How does that amount to them not being hurt and Marco being in trouble when he only has some bruises and stamina issue so far ?

I love how Marco multitasking and healing others with AoE is being _conveniently_ ignored as well.

You hypocrites weren't bringing up hybrids when BM beat Queen or when Sulongs beat Jack, uh ?
Marco is not himself in hybrid nor he has shown everything btw.

Talk about double standards

Reactions: Like 4


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## YonkoDrippy (Mar 7, 2021)

They win High Diff. Which shows Marco is Admiral level


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## itsxtray (Mar 7, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> What are you guys on ?
> 
> King is still recovering from the shots and dripping blood while Queen has a *huge cut *on his face and is all bruised up.
> How does that amount to them not being hurt and Marco being in trouble when he only has some bruises and stamina issue so far ?


Because what we were shown this chapter and what we were told this chapter were pretty different. Marco was mopping they asses all chapter but he and perspero remarked that he was worn out.


Nikseng said:


> I love how Marco multitasking and healing others with AoE is being _conveniently_ ignored as well.
> 
> You hypocrites weren't bringing up hybrids when BM beat Queen or when Sulongs beat Jack, uh ?


I was, go back thru my comments, i've been complaining about it for months. Especially Jack. Add Sasaki to the list now to. Dude keeps charging at Franky like a moron when he's already been stonewalled, go hybrid and pull out that sword bruh.


Nikseng said:


> Marco is not himself in hybrid nor he has shown everything btw.


He's not fully hybrid as in his upper body but his legs are. (Which makes sense since he uses kicks) Look at my post above explaining all the characteristics of hybrid. Also, i said i think he'll pull out a full hybrid form.


Nikseng said:


> Talk about double standards


None from me.


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## Captain Altintop (Mar 8, 2021)

Na changed my mind a little bit pro King and Queen. Itshould be rather clear that King + Queen would *high *(high) diff. Marco sooner or later but that's not a bad feat for Marco.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 10, 2021)

Marco high or extreme diff


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## ShadoLord (Mar 10, 2021)

There is a reason why Oda had Perospero stumbling into the fight. Oda is trying to tell us that he needs to throw more at Marco before he even reaches his limits. Which is multitasking with fighting King, Queen, Perospero and healing all the allied samurai. Who knows, Oda might just throw in Jack as well. He is clearly trying to differentiate Marco from his fellow 1st mate.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Canute87 (Mar 10, 2021)

Shanks said:


> I don't get why people think current Marco holding off King and Queen is easier than fighting them all out. Marco's role is to make sure both King and Queen don't run off and help Kaido or distract chopper. This is alot harder than fighting them 2 v 1 with no distractions.
> 
> Marco can kick either King or Queen across the island (similar to what he's doing now), isolate either one and beat the shit out of them and repeat.
> 
> I do see a scenario where by the duo can win with better team work, but as it stands, I give it to Marco more time than not with very high difficulties.


Marco is doing the same shit he did in marineford. When he was all over the battlefield.

I honestly think he has ADHD.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Shanks (Mar 10, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> I honestly think he has ADHD.


Feels like Queen is the one having ADHD tbh


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## Canute87 (Mar 10, 2021)

Shanks said:


> Feels like Queen is the one having ADHD tbh


Nah he knows it was best to stay away from marco.

But when you have to draw for gun there really isn't anything queen has.


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## Mihawk (Mar 10, 2021)

Queen is literally coughing blood and getting banged up all over the place while losing his wits against Marco, and ya'll are saying Marco hasn't done shit to him 

My man clashed with Big Mom and has been expending the regen factor on other people. If it wasn't for that, an argument can be made that he wouldn't have even gotten the bruises he did this chapter. 

If this was a 1v1, Marco probably mid-diffs Queen.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Canute87 (Mar 10, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Queen is literally coughing blood and getting banged up all over the place while losing his wits against Marco, and ya'll are saying Marco hasn't done shit to him
> 
> My man clashed with Big Mom and has been expending the regen factor on other people. If it wasn't for that, an argument can be made that he wouldn't have even gotten the bruises he did this chapter.
> 
> If this was a 1v1, Marco probably mid-diffs Queen.


It seems King is the one carrying most of the load.

Queen hasn't touched Marco once.  Queen is being outclassed here.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 11, 2021)

Zoro said:


> There is a reason why Oda had Perospero stumbling into the fight. Oda is trying to tell us that he needs to throw more at Marco before he even reaches his limits. Which is multitasking with fighting King, Queen, Perospero and healing all the allied samurai. Who knows, Oda might just throw in Jack as well. He is clearly trying to differentiate Marco from his fellow 1st mate.


hey look, another genius! great work


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 19, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Each one of the attacks Marco used against Kizaru, King and Queen, will be turning Katakuri and Smoothie's inside's out.


The ones that did absolutely jack shit to Kizaru? The ones Kizaru was making fun of?

Jesus christ the amount of wank lol

The ones that did minimal damage to King and Queen? Are going to turn Katakuri the dude who was taking G4 hits to the face like a boss inside's out?

Jesus fucking christ do you sleep with a Marco body pillow or something?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 19, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The ones that did absolutely jack shit to Kizaru? The ones Kizaru was making fun of?
> 
> Jesus christ the amount of wank lol
> 
> ...


Did I strike a nerve? 

The one kick that Kizaru, an Admiral, couldn't defend completely against? 

King and Queen are tanks.

You can count the amount of hits Katakuri took before he went down on your fingers.


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## Draco Bolton (Aug 19, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Jesus christ the amount of wank lol
> 
> The ones that did minimal damage to King and Queen? Are going to turn Katakuri the dude who was taking G4 hits to the face like a boss inside's out?
> 
> Jesus fucking christ do you sleep with a Marco body pillow or something?


You may be on something 

My great friend @Shunsuiju once told me that Marco can abuses this damned Katakuri very quickly (he proved to me just one Marco's paw stroke>>>Boundman attacks+Snakeman attacks+Mogura attack in the guts  ), and that the only thing that is faster than this feat would be himself abusing a Marco body pillow even faster

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 19, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> The one kick that Kizaru, an Admiral, couldn't defend completely against?


When are you going to understand that when someone who can't fly , is in the air and is kicked from above, he is going to be thrown to the ground? Is it really that hard to comprehend?

How didn't he completely defend an attack that did zero damage? Because that would be even worse for Marco lol



Shunsuiju said:


> You can count the amount of hits Katakuri took before he went down on your fingers.


Actually no, you can't. And every single one of those hits were much stronger than Marco's


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 19, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> When are you going to understand that when someone who can't fly , is in the air and is kicked from above, he is going to be thrown to the ground? Is it really that hard to comprehend?


Marco's inital momentum was blocked by Kizaru and then Marco overpowered him while both of them were mid-air.


Strobacaxi said:


> How didn't he completely defend an attack that did zero damage? Because that would be even worse for Marco lol


Kizaru was defending himself but he got overpowered and sent flying into the ground where he's not going to take any damage on impact because he's a logia.

Or do you genuinely believe that if Marco kicked KIzaru in the face while he was not defending, that he would not leave any impact?


Strobacaxi said:


> Actually no, you can't. And every single one of those hits were much stronger than Marco's


No, I don't think the power to overpower an Admiral, match blows with a Yonko, and push King and Queen's shit in is weaker than G4.


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 19, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Evidently, King and Queen are too tough for Marco to put down before he himself reaches his limit. Which makes sense given that it looks like Zoro and Sanji will have their hands full with the duo now.
> 
> When zoan toughness isn't as much of a worry, I could see Marco taking out a YC1/YC2 duo like Katakuri and Smoothie. Each one of the attacks Marco used against Kizaru, King and Queen, will be turning Katakuri and Smoothie's inside's out. With speed to intercept Kizaru's lasers and take on King and Queen at once, Marco can overcome Katakuri's future sight.
> 
> Probably doesn't beat Beckman and Lucky Roo though. They are being reserved for late game.


The last sentence makes it sound as if you think Marco would be the favorite against Beckmann in a 1v1 lmao.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 19, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> The last sentence makes it sound as if you think Marco would be the favorite against Beckmann in a 1v1 lmao.




Ben Beckman pointed a gun at a guy once.


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 19, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Ben Beckman pointed a gun at a guy once.


Yes, he's featless but you're being purposely ignorant if you don't think Benn is being set up to be the strongest YFM. The "probably" doesn't take Benn and Lucky Roo is hilarious, they no diff him. At worst Benn is Marco level, whereas that's the best case for Marco, at best Benn can possibly be admiral level.

Reactions: Like 3


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## B Rabbit (Aug 19, 2021)

Super douche move to bump this before the chapter is even out.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 19, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Yes, he's featless but you're being* purposely ignorant if you don't think Benn is being set up to be the strongest YFM*. The "probably" doesn't take Benn and Lucky Roo is hilarious, they no diff him. *At worst Benn is Marco level*, whereas that's the best case for Marco, at best Benn can possibly be admiral level.


Ok.. but why?

And no I don't think Marco has a chance against both of them. In my eyes, Roo and Ben are going to be nigh equals to the duo of Marco and Jozu.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 19, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> Super douche move to bump this before the chapter is even out.


@LaniDani 

Prime suspect.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 19, 2021)

@convict 

Chapter will be out in like 7 hours. Anyways we can lock this and put it in the telegrams. So no spoiler readers don't run in here?


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 19, 2021)




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## ShadoLord (Aug 19, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Ben Beckman pointed a gun at a guy once.


and Kizaru even proceeded to ignore him and there wasn't a thing he could do to stop it...

unlike Marco who actully could stop yasakani no magatama

idunno why they keep hyping this guy up to the high heavens and thinking he's a match for current Luffy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 19, 2021)

Boy the wank in this thread was special

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 19, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Ok.. but why?
> 
> And no I don't think Marco has a chance against both of them. In my eyes, Roo and Ben are going to be nigh equals to the duo of Marco and Jozu.


Do I really have to explain why Benn's portrayal completely outshines Marco's? Having a partner relationship with Shanks similar to Luffy/Zoro, Roger/Ray, Kidd/Killer etc, whereas Marco does not share this with WB. The first YFM to be introduced (technically) and last to be really revelant, 99 percent chance going to have the highest bounty, Vivre cards stating he's close to Shanks (yeah yeah that doesn't mean he gives Shanks an extreme diff), highlighted among commanders as being special in a crew of special commanders, by necessity has to be the strongest because Shanks crew is small compared to all the others. Like anyone with eyes can see why Benn's hype completely outshines Marco's, I don't think he'd mild diff him or anything, but yeah. Also no I don't see that tbh, I see Shanks main force being above their YC status by quite a bit.

Reactions: Like 1 | GODA 1


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## convict (Aug 19, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> @convict
> 
> Chapter will be out in like 7 hours. Anyways we can lock this and put it in the telegrams. So no spoiler readers don't run in here?



Good idea

Perpetrator will be warned. I think objectively will have to be more strict about this and start issuing bans from here on out.

Edit - Unlocked so we can continue the ancient OL tradition of calling out people who were hella wrong

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Just look at your buddy here man, where is the near Yonko level fighter who could beat up King and Queen together?
20 minutes after fighting King solo he's like this

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 20, 2021)

He’s a tier above them

Reactions: Like 2


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> He’s a tier above them


He literally lost against one of them brother

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

Beckman > Marco > King > Katakuri

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Unicornsilovethem (Aug 20, 2021)

Nf being a little bitch and not letting me insert this image properly.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Dislike 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> He literally lost against one of them brother


He was weakened from fighting both of them, go back and read that chapter

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alex Payne (Aug 20, 2021)

Never bought Marco standing a chance vs both King and Queen. People were blinded by him abusing his busted DF. He is decisively stronger than either Kata or King imo but would need a solid high diff to beat either. Beckman is still an unknown.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> He was weakened from fighting both of them, go back and read that chapter


Is Sanji gonna lose against Queen because he was weakened from fighting both of them too? No? Because he's actually stronger than Queen? 

He fought both of them for very little time, he fought King alone for 30 mins


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## JustSumGuy (Aug 20, 2021)

I mean, he’s still the most impressive Yonko commander in the entire series.

He was holding his own against Kaido’s top 2 men for awhile.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Whimsy (Aug 20, 2021)

King would have been dead as a doorknob if he'd fought Zoro and Sanji for as long as Marco fought King and Queen


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## Iskandar (Aug 20, 2021)

Here and proud. 
Only the fakes would change their opinion because of this.


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> I mean, he’s still the most impressive Yonko commander in the entire series.
> 
> He was holding his own against Kaido’s top 2 men for awhile.


No he wasn't. His fruit was allowing him to stall them, that's it.
Both King and Queen have no damage until Zoro and Sanji fight them. Both of them are fresh. Marco did nothing but stall. 

Admiral level Marco couldn't put a dent on them, and after fighting King for 30 minutes, he didn't even make him go hybrid, and still couldn't put a dent on him


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## Mylesime (Aug 20, 2021)

King didn't solo shit.
Heck this chapter alone before the strawhats comeback, he was gonna end him with Queen once again.
Marco is the stronger of the three commanders, he had no shot at beating them both tough which was made perfectly clear a while ago.
King could likely push him to an high diff fight on his own. They aren't that far apart.
Switch the teams, let Marco team up with Queen and gang up on King.
The fuck would King do?
Let's be real.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## qOcOp (Aug 20, 2021)

Marco has no durability

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bobybobster (Aug 20, 2021)

king couldn't even kill an exhausted marco


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Heck this chapter alone before the strawhats comeback, he was goona end him with Queen once again.


And how was Marco holding up before? Because King literally beat him solo, and then joined Queen and ganged up on Sanji lol. Only after Sanji was already down and Chopper was running around did Marco get up.



Mylesime said:


> Switch the teams, let Marco team up with Queen and gang up on King.
> The fuck would King do?


We have no idea. Probably similarly. Stall them both for some time, and then be defeated by one of them solo after being tired by both.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JustSumGuy (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> No he wasn't. His fruit was allowing him to stall them, that's it.
> Both King and Queen have no damage until Zoro and Sanji fight them. Both of them are fresh. Marco did nothing but stall.
> 
> Admiral level Marco couldn't put a dent on them, and after fighting King for 30 minutes, he didn't even make him go hybrid, and still couldn't put a dent on him


Even that is impressive though. Marco was giving both of them trouble, whether they sustained any notable injuries is irrelevant.

Im confused it seems your holding him to Yonko standards that nobody else does. Of course if you get down to it, no one thought Marco had a chance of beating them at the same time.


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## Heart Over Blade (Aug 20, 2021)

Chickenbros

Reactions: Funny 4 | Dislike 1


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## convict (Aug 20, 2021)

I stand by my original sentiment when everyone was ridiculing King and Queen:



> There is one thing about Oda's mentality in drawing fights that people don't quite understand it seems.
> 
> And this is coming from someone who really likes Marco and has been parading his strength over Kata/King for a while.
> 
> ...


Except I change it to Marco beating King extreme difficulty instead of high difficulty. And beating Queen mid-high instead of purely mid.

lol at some of the other opinions in the earlier on.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mylesime (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> And how was Marco holding up before? Because King literally beat him solo, and then joined Queen and ganged up on Sanji lol. Only after Sanji was already down and Chopper was running around did Marco get up.



This battle was impossible since the begining and it was made perfectly clear. It was about stalling them all along.
Facing several opponents alone is not easy, we recently saw Big Mom almost droped to the sea facing four far weaker than her opponents.
Since Perospero's arrival it was made clear that Marco was exhausted and that it was only a matter of time before his fall.


We've seen how hard it is with Sanji (who had no difficulty dealing with Queen).
This is a positive feat for Marco.


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Im confused it seems your holding him to Yonko standards that nobody else does.


pahahahahaha brother are you new in this forum or something?

I've been told a million times that Marco is admiral level, that he overpowered kizaru and Aokiji, that BM ran away from him, that BM would be pushed to extreme diff to beat him, that he could take King and Queen, that he's the closest thing there is to a Yonko outside Luffy, etc etc etc

I'm just making fun of those idiots

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2 | Dislike 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Just look at your buddy here man, where is the near Yonko level fighter who could beat up King and Queen together?
> 20 minutes after fighting King solo he's like this


Here.

He is above them.

Bye.


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## Seraphoenix (Aug 20, 2021)

" near Yonko level fighter " nobody with sense said this. He is admiral level per the databook. That's where YC1s are. So he obviously couldn't beat King and Queen as one person. Same way Shiki couldn't beat Garp and Sengoku. King and Queen would kill a lone admiral. Look at what happened to Fujitora with the help of Greenbull against Sabo and fodders. He was wearing bandages over a week after the fight.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

No one said he's Yonko level. Good bait.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Aug 20, 2021)

When he was facing both King and Queen, many people put him on Beckman level, even though neither King or Queen went Hybrid. Then it all went downhill for him starting with his 1.35B bounty reveal. Now that he got beaten like this, what level is he?

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Heart Over Blade said:


> When he was facing both King and Queen, many people put him on Beckman level. Even though neither King or Queen went Hybrid. Then it all went downhill for him starting with his bounty reveal. Now that he got beaten like this, what level is he?


Beckman wouldn't beat King and Queen together either. Yes, Marco is probably around the same level as him.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

It doesn't matter if you start a fight looking superior, if you lose that fight you were not superior to your opponent.

To make this clearer, imagine a Football(soccer for you Americans) match where at the start, the away team is leading in possession and goals, then at the end, the home team wins.

It didn't matter that the Away team was winning at first, all that mattered was who won and all the Banter will be directed at the away team.

This analogy fits Marco vs King/Queen. They low diffed him. Accept it, no more cope to change the fact

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Heart Over Blade said:


> When he was facing both King and Queen, many people put him on Beckman level. Even though neither King or Queen went Hybrid. Then it all went downhill for him starting with his bounty reveal. Now that he got beaten like this, what level is he?


He's YFM. Like Kata and King.

Any character can stall 2 similar characters for a short time and get clearly overwhelmed without them going all out. Just look at Zoro stalling Kaku and Jyabura



Eustathios said:


> No one said he's Yonko level. Good bait.





> He is admiral level per the databook.



It's literally in the post above yours
And in my book, saying "Marco pushes BM to extreme diff" is the same thing as saying "Marco is Yonko level"

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Aug 20, 2021)

I'm still here

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Soca (Aug 20, 2021)

There's a whole vs thread for this cat. Merging.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> He's YFM. Like Kata and King.
> 
> Any character can stall 2 similar characters for a short time and get clearly overwhelmed without them going all out. Just look at Zoro stalling Kaku and Jyabura
> 
> ...


I made the thread about Marco and BM. Pretty sure the vast majority of people agreed it was a mid diff.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> No one said he's Yonko level. Good bait.


Like not even a sane person said that.

Heck no one sane said he is a top tier just the top of the high tiers for now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Like not even a sane person said that.
> 
> Heck no one sane said he is a top tier just the top of the high tiers for now.


Ah, so begins "The Great Backtracking"

So unexpected

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Ah, so begins "The Great Backtracking"
> 
> So unexpected


Dude you are baiting ...

I made 5 threads about Marco and no one and I mean no one said he was a level Yonko fighter.

Here is my answer King is shit, Zoro will shit on him.

Marco is not.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2021)

It ended in upper mid. diff for King+Queen I think. Queen for sure had to go all out (hybrid+all his weapons). King mostly was in base and full zoan+used his signature fire attacks.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> He's YFM. Like Kata and King.
> 
> Any character can stall 2 similar characters for a short time and get clearly overwhelmed without them going all out. Just look at Zoro stalling Kaku and Jyabura


Yep. Looks like it.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

Teach destroyed Marco and Big Mom choked Marco like a chicken. Marco is also afraid to go to the rooftop to face Kaido.

So yeah, Marco can't be Yonko level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Corax said:


> Queen for sure had to go all out (hybrid+all his weapons)


Mate... That was against Sanji lol

Queen stopped fighting Marco 30 minutes ago

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Beckman wouldn't beat King and Queen together either. Yes, Marco is probably around the same level as him.


Benn's hype and portrayal is clearly superior to Marco's my dude. Don't know if he could beat both at the same time though.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 2


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## MrPopo (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> It doesn't matter if you start a fight looking superior, if you lose that fight you were not superior to your opponent.
> 
> To make this clearer, imagine a Football(soccer for you Americans) match where at the start, the away team is leading in possession and goals, then at the end, the home team wins.
> 
> ...


Good to see that you've accepted that it was King and Queen that defeated Marco

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Teach destroyed Marco and Big Mom choked Marco like a chicken. *Marco is also afraid to go to the rooftop to face Kaido*.
> 
> So yeah, Marco can't be Yonko level.


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


>


... 

Ignore the post.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Heck no one sane said he is a top tier





Mihawk said:


> Yup, but barely. He's the gateway/borderline top tier Imo. Only the Admirals/Yonko, WSS, and legends are above him. If Zoro, Sabo, and Luffy are considered top tiers by some, then so is Marco by hype, portrayal, and renown.


12 people agreed with this in particular.

Others:


TheNirou said:


> Currently, Marco since he's a low top tier and Luffy for the same reason





Mihawk said:


> Marco is my weakest top tier
> 
> but anyways, 2 Fuji’s take Roger into custody





VileNotice said:


> He can still be lowest top tier if he loses to two upper high tiers. And his “I give up” was clearly said because he knew the wings were taking over



Y'all are clowns with this backtracking


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Benn's hype and portrayal is clearly superior to Marco's my dude. Don't know if he could beat both at the same time though.


Beckman has yet to do something that places him above Marco. Marco was the right hand man of the WSM and de-facto first mate of the strongest crew. He received hype and respect from everyone, including BM and the Gorosei.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## MrPopo (Aug 20, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Teach destroyed Marco and Big Mom choked Marco like a chicken. Marco is also afraid to go to the rooftop to face Kaido.
> 
> So yeah, Marco can't be Yonko level.


The monotaro theory is still in play and better than ever with Marco free to do what he wants

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> Good to see that you've accepted that it was King and Queen that defeated Marco


They exhausted him and King beat him by himself

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


>


You again.

Go back to when I said the same thing to you 2 days ago.

I mean you even made a bait thread ... that was closed in 2s.

Go and have a hobby my dude.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2021)

Heart Over Blade said:


> When he was facing both King and Queen, many people put him on Beckman level, even though neither King or Queen went Hybrid. Then it all went downhill for him starting with his 1.35B bounty reveal. Now that he got beaten like this, what level is he?


I doubt that Beckman can beat King+Queen together anyway. Probably push them to very high or just high.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


>



When the Scabbards entered Onigashima to attempt to kill Kaido, Marco made an excuse about seeing a shadow on the water (Perespero) and left the Scabbards to check on the shadow, this was a clever trick to save face and avoid fighting Kaido. Then Marco choose to send Zoro to the roof instead of sending himself. Marco also didn't go to Onigashima with Ace to fight Kaido.

All signs point to Marco being terrified of the World's Strongest Creature.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## convict (Aug 20, 2021)

People are overrating Beckman. He is the strongest I believe but why are we saying that he can beat both King and Queen at the same time? Have people not learned their lesson with Marco in this very thread ?

Reactions: Agree 4 | Optimistic 1


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## MrPopo (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> They exhausted him and King beat him by himself


This is like saying Blackbeard defeated whitebeard


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> The monotaro theory is still in play and better than ever with Marco free to do what he wants



the what theory?


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

convict said:


> People are overrating Beckman. He is the strongest but why are we saying that he can beat both King and Queen at the same time? Have people not learned their lesson with Marco in this very thread ?


If he is a top tier he can go to extreme diff with them and possibly win depending on what level he is.

He is in another tier to them so yes he has a chance.

Luffy after Wano can defeat them both so ...


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Dude you are baiting ...
> 
> I made 5 threads about Marco and no one and I mean no one said he was a level Yonko fighter.
> 
> ...





MartyMcFly1 said:


> Clearly he is. He fought King and Queen by himself and the gorosei gave him high praise. Simple.





Eustathios said:


> I don't really care about tiers as they're subjective, but if we go by portrayal and ignore conventional powerscaling, the Gorosei mentioning him alongside the Yonko as the _only_ forces capable of stopping Teach is enough to place him on top of the OP world IMO. Knowing the severe losses the WBP suffered in MF and still being considered a de-facto Yonko candidate is enough for me.





2waim said:


> If beating marco makes you officially a Yonko (teach) then clearly he is a top tier, a top tier doesn't mean someone who doesn't lose ,kaido himself lost multiple times and he is the strongest and no one questions that,also making fun of his AP is not funny,he is a browler ..Do people wanted him to cut queen heads or something? He was manhandling two top commander and he showed a clear superiority over them , and Oda has gone out of his way to makes him clash with Three admirals and a Yonko who said she can't take him down, and still he isn't a top fucking tir? Do you guys want Oda to knock your door and tell you Marco is a top tier!?





Rasendori said:


> He fought a YC 1 and 2 solo. WHILE HEALING dozens of allies.
> 
> Had the firepower to pushback BM and Kizaru.
> 
> ...





Eustathios said:


> Finally we can all agree that Marco is a top tier.





Dead Precedence said:


> Since both Marco and Teach candidates for filling the vacant Yonko spot.



Took me literally 3 seconds to find a bunch of "Marco top tier, MArco admiral, Marco Yonko tier"

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> This is like saying Blackbeard defeated whitebeard


Apples to Oranges comparison.


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> When the Scabbards entered Onigashima to attempt to kill Kaido, Marco made an excuse about seeing a shadow on the water (Perespero) and left the Scabbards to check on the shadow, this was a clever trick to save face and avoid fighting Kaido. Then Marco choose to send Zoro to the roof instead of sending himself. Marco also didn't go to Onigashima with Ace to fight Kaido.
> 
> All signs point to Marco being terrified of the World's Strongest Creature.


He told Ace he'd join as soon as WB gave the order. 

He wasn't afraid of confronting Admirals, bloodlusted Akainu at that. He simply believes this fight belongs to the new gen. Cmon now, I expected people to rate him lower after this chapter, but this is simply downplay.


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## convict (Aug 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> If he is a top tier he can go to extreme diff with them and possibly win depending on what level he is.
> 
> He is in another tier to them so yes he has a chance.
> 
> Luffy after Wano can defeat them both so ...



Luffy after the Kaido fight is surely stronger than Beckman

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Took me literally 3 seconds to find a bunch of "Marco top tier, MArco admiral, Marco Yonko tier"


Dude learn to read.

Even reading those quotes, there is no Yonko level there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> He told Ace he'd join as soon as WB gave the order.
> 
> He wasn't afraid of confronting Admirals, bloodlusted Akainu at that. He simply believes this fight belongs to the new gen. Cmon now, I expected people to rate him lower after this chapter, but this is simply downplay.



I thought the  at the end of my post made it clear I was joking.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

convict said:


> Luffy after the Kaido fight is probably stronger than Beckman


He is but we don't know the difference between them.


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> You again.
> 
> Go back to when I said the same thing to you 2 days ago.
> 
> ...


Tfw you get debunked by a basic search

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Beckman has yet to do something that places him above Marco. Marco was the right hand man of the WSM and de-facto first mate of the strongest crew. He received hype and respect from everyone, including BM and the Gorosei.


Benn's dynamic with WB is the same as Katakuri to BM and King to Kaido. If anything Oden would be the special WB crew member that was called brother and not Marco who's his son. Also Benn was never put in Marco's position because his captain isn't, you know, dead. Benn has all the hype from the vivre cards and the fact that he has yet to actually flex and is being saved for last despite being the first to be introduced to the story. Benn's ceiling is clearly higher than Marco's and potentially reaches admiral level, and yes I know admiral fans won't like this because if Shanks' first mate is admiral level than that deads the notion that Admirals=Yonko (not saying he for sure is going to be admiral level but his ceiling is still untapped wheras we've seen Marco's ceiling), Benn's floor is Marco level. That alone shows the disparity between the two.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Aug 20, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> the what theory?


Just know Marco will fight Kaido


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Also, since I got quoted. 



> *I don't really care about tiers as they're subjective*, but if we go by portrayal and ignore conventional powerscaling, the Gorosei mentioning him alongside the Yonko as the _only_ forces capable of stopping Teach is *enough to place him on top of the OP world IMO.* Knowing the severe losses the WBP suffered in MF and still being considered a de-facto Yonko candidate is enough for me.


You guys can use whatever definitions you want about top tier, this was my reasoning. I won't tell you one is wrong and the other is correct since they are bound to be subjective.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

I do recall people calling Marco a top tier when the chapter of Marco choking King and Queen came out.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Took me literally 3 seconds to find a bunch of "Marco top tier, MArco admiral, Marco Yonko tier"


Lmao, I'm literally shitting on Marco in this thread lmao. I never said Marco is admiral level, people put him at "low top tier" just like people calling Luffy "low top tier" (and yes I do have Luffy stronger than Marco). Also, if you do want to get back into that argument using the "they mentioned Marco along with the remnants of WB pirates" doesn't really mean much, if Rayleigh was put in that same position they'd say the same thing as Rayleigh and the Roger Pirates remnants and not just Rayleigh.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Benn has all the hype from the vivre cards and the fact that he has yet to actually flex and is being saved for last despite being the first to be introduced to the story.



Don't forget what the Marines said in the manga!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Dude learn to read.
> 
> Even reading those quote, there is no Yonko level there.


"Since both Marco and Teach candidates for filling the vacant Yonko spot."

Gee I wonder what you can possibly mean by candidate to fill a Yonko spot... Surely not that he's Yonko tier!

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Tfw you get debunked by a basic search


You two don't even read.

Yonko candidate is not a Yonko ).

The same way Admiral candidates are not Admirals.

Luffy was Goko from WCI, so I guess you and @Strobacaxi  consider Luffy a Yonko after Kata.



Strobacaxi said:


> "Since both Marco and Teach candidates for filling the vacant Yonko spot."
> 
> Gee I wonder what you can possibly mean by candidate to fill a Yonko spot... Surely not that he's Yonko tier!


...

Luffy was Goko so he was a Yonko already.

geee I wonder why are you insisting on this crap, I do.


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## convict (Aug 20, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I do recall people calling Marco a top tier when the chapter of Marco choking King and Queen came out.



I still think Marco is either the highest high tier or lowest top tier (favoring the former). The people just one step above him are Beckman, Luffy, Scopper, Old Rayleigh who I think are top tier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Benn's dynamic with WB is the same as Katakuri to BM and King to Kaido. If anything Oden would be the special WB crew member that was called brother and not Marco who's his son. Also Benn was never put in Marco's position because his captain isn't, you know, dead.


Marco is confirmed to be his right hand man, something neither of those two have. 


Dead Precedence said:


> Benn has all the hype from the vivre cards and the fact that he has yet to actually flex and is being saved for last despite being the first to be introduced to the story. Benn's ceiling is clearly higher than Marco's and potentially reaches admiral level, and yes I know admiral fans won't like this because if Shanks' first mate is admiral level than that deads the notion that Admirals=Yonko (not saying he for sure is going to be admiral level but his ceiling is still untapped wheras we've seen Marco's ceiling), *Benn's floor is Marco level. *That alone shows the disparity between the two.


I agree that his ceiling could be higher. I disagree with the notion that is has to be stronger than Marco or will be above him by a good margin. I see them ending up on the same level, with minimal differences regardless of who's stronger.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

convict said:


> I still think Marco is either the highest high tier or lowest top tier (favoring the former). The people just one step above him are Beckman, Luffy, Scopper, Old Rayleigh who I think are top tier.



Who do you think is stronger between Marco and Zoro?


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I thought the  at the end of my post made it clear I was joking.


This chapter got me in no mood to have fun

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

convict said:


> I still think Marco is either the highest high tier or lowest top tier (favoring the former). The people just one step above him are Beckman, Luffy, Scopper, Old Rayleigh who I think are top tier.


I still say he is top high tiers and Bem low top tier with Current Luffy.


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## convict (Aug 20, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Who do you think is stronger between Marco and Zoro?



Marco extreme difficulty now. Zoro will surpass him after he learns more about CoC in the next few chapters

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

convict said:


> Marco extreme difficulty now. Zoro will surpass him after he learns more about CoC in the next few chapters


Zoro will be top high tiers at the end of Wano.

Zehaha.

And Sanji a YC1 level


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Also let me repeat myself again on the subject of Marco's flames healing the gifters and samurai on the Live floor.

First of all, Marco only produced the flames, the healing power and the flames own sustenance was due to the fodders own stamina. So no, Marco wasn't healing them directly.

Secondly, Marco's flame production can't have drained him much. Doflamingo produced million times more strings in Dressrosa while actively controlling them on top of being heavily injured from GK, so if we go with this copium, Marco has less Stamina than nerfed YC2 Doflamingo.

Lastly, Marco himself says he got exhausted fighting King and Queen. He mentioned nothing else. Stop defending this man with lies.

Reactions: Like 2


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## A Optimistic (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> This chapter got me in no mood to have fun



I see, I see.

Well to clarify, I don't think Marco is afraid of fighting anyone. He fought the Marines, the Roger Pirates, the Beast Pirates, Big Mom, and Blackbeard.

I don't think there's anyone he's afraid of fighting. Which makes sense since he's a magical bird that can regenerate.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Ok so after all no one ever said Marco was admiral level, no one ever said he overpowered Kizaru, no one ever said BM would be pushed to extreme diff, no one ever said he could take King and Queen, no one ever said Marco was top tier

It's so fun

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ludi (Aug 20, 2021)

Kaido > King+Queen> Benn > Marco > King > Katakuri > base King

I don't think even Benn has the ability to beat K+Q, as they beat Marco without even going all out

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> no one ever said he could take King and Queen


He literarily did do that.

Did you read that chapter.

Not our problem that you think we said he will win.


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Ok so after all no one ever said Marco was admiral level, no one ever said he overpowered Kizaru, no one ever said BM would be pushed to extreme diff, no one ever said he could take King and Queen, no one ever said Marco was top tier
> 
> It's so fun


There's a guy who says Usopp will defeat King. Will you make a thread about Usopp wank because of one guy too?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Beckmann
Katakuri, King and Marco.​
The only way a stated stalemate between Yonko works

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Ren. said:


> He literarily did do that.
> 
> Did you read that chapter.
> 
> Not our problem that you think we said he will win.


Taking someone means beating someone. Not stalling and getting your ass handed to you



Eustathios said:


> There's a guy who says Usopp will defeat King. Will you make a thread about Usopp wank because of one guy too?


Whenever several people agree with him and I'm called an Usopp hater for saying he can't, yes, I will

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> There's a guy who says Usopp will defeat King. Will you make a thread about Usopp wank because of one guy too?


A dozen or more people believed Marco was Top tier and it was a serious topic throughout this year.

So this is nonsense


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Taking someone means beating someone. Not stalling and getting your ass handed to you


Your problem is that you only post the ending. And even that was not the ending as later he blocking King again the scrub, if almost dead Marco he can not kill.

You didn't post when he was damaging both of them and they were not dodging or blocking.

Again not my problem.


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2021)

Marco is just FM+. FM+ aren't top tiers. Difference between any top tier and FM+ is gigantic (just look at Kaido vs aCoC Luffy).

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> A dozen or more people believed Marco was Top tier and it was a serious topic throughout this year.
> 
> So this is nonsense


Tiers are completely subjective.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Corax said:


> (just look at Kaido vs aCoC Luffy).


Both top tiers one low the other top.

...

Worst analogy ever.

Old Ray is top tier but so is Prime Luffy ...


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 20, 2021)

Marco beats either of them individually, but he loses in a 2v1 with mid diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 20, 2021)

This would be solved if only people we accept as top tiers are admirals, yonko, mihawk etc. Not even old rayleigh, etc. should qualify imo. That would also erase the low top tier, mid top tier shit. To be a top tier you need to be able to go either way another one imo, but idk that might be too stringent.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Louis-954 (Aug 20, 2021)

Marco had two opponents. Not hard to understand why he is exhausted.


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## Lord Melkor (Aug 20, 2021)

Ok


Corax said:


> Marco is just FM+. FM+ aren't top tiers. Difference between any top tier and FM+ is gigantic (just look at Kaido vs aCoC Luffy).




Certainly MF did not imply there is any gigantic difference between Marco and Admirals.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tenma (Aug 20, 2021)

If Jinbe struggled with base WW just because the guy had a bunch of gifters it's easy to see why Marco gassed out against 2 Calamities.

In every seen exchange Marco had much better speed and reaction time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Marco beats either of them individually, but he loses in a 2v1 with mid diff.


Nah. He lost to the two of them mid diff going all out while both didn't go all out. 

King can extreme diff either way with Marco if h uses his full power.

While Queen is a high diff fight.


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2021)

Lord Melkor said:


> Ok
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly MF did not imply there is any gigantic difference between Marco and Admirals.


He did zero damage to any of them. He did some damage to King and Queen at least. He is more in their tier,than in top tier.


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Corax said:


> He did zero damage to any of them. He did some damage to King and Queen at least. He is more in their tier,than in top tier.


How do you define top tier?

From what we got in both MF and Wano, Admirals/Yonko would need a good deal of effort to bring Marco down.


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

A top tier can give high/extreme diff to any other top tier and put down everyone else with mid diff and below

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> How do you define top tier?
> 
> From what we got in both MF and Wano, Admirals/Yonko would need a good deal of effort to bring Marco down.


They need some effort because of his DF. He can't harm them even by sneak attacks. They probably need mid. but only because of his regeneration. Sooner or later he'll run out of stamina (within 1 hour or so if we go by Wano arc).


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Corax said:


> They need some effort because of his DF.* He can't harm them even by sneak attacks*.


No indication of this. Marco used nothing but generic kicks in MF. If the Scabbards can get through Kaido's durability, Marco can hurt much less durable opponents too.


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> How do you define top tier?
> 
> From what we got in both MF and Wano, Admirals/Yonko would need a good deal of effort to bring Marco down.


Said character would have to go either way with other top tiers or at worst case scenario lose to the other top tier with very high-extreme diff. Anything less shouldn't be an actual top tier imo, unless you really wanna use like shit like low top tier and all that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Said character would have to go either way with other top tiers or at worst case scenario lose to the other top tier with very high-extreme diff. Anything less shouldn't be an actual top tier imo, unless you really wanna use like shit like low top tier and all that.


Alright that's fine. In that case I agree by that definition he's not top tier. That would only be Yonko/Admirals, Mihawk and Dragon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> No indication of this. Marco used nothing but generic kicks in MF. If the Scabbards can get through Kaido's durability, Marco can hurt much less durable opponents too.


He used named. But Oda named them only in Wano. For example in this chapter he used named attack (same he used vs Kizaru in MF). Also he used named knee drop vs Kizaru  and named claw attack vs Aokiji (sneak).


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Corax said:


> He used named. But Oda named them only in Wano. For example in this chapter he used named attack he used vs Kizaru in MF. Also he used named knee drop vs Kizaru  and named claw attack vs Aokiji (sneak).


Still no reason why he can't hurt them at all. The Admirals can go 10 days against their equal, they won't get injured by a few kicks. Akainu tanked an island splitter and got back up.


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## Heart Over Blade (Aug 20, 2021)

I don't know if Marco deserves to be called FM+. Fighting non-hybrid King and Queen for a while taxed his stamina, but Queen stopped fighting him a long time ago. Marco ended up beaten on the floor during his fight with King, who still hasn't gone hybrid. It's not good portrayal for someone who's supposed to be on another level compared to King.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Louis-954 said:


> Marco had two opponents. Not hard to understand why he is exhausted.


Marco had two opponents for 5 minutes.
He had one opponent for 30 minutes

His one opponent never even went hybrid and is shown after the fight with zero damage


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## Louis-954 (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Marco had two opponents for 5 minutes.
> He had one opponent for 30 minutes
> 
> His one opponent never even went hybrid and is shown after the fight with zero damage


How exactly do you quantify how long he fought each of them? Can you show me the panels that indicate that?

How do you know he never went hybrid? Did Oda give you the off panel information?

Also, me and another guy whip your ass for "only 5 minutes", and then I beat on you solo for another "30 minutes", does that mean I'm stronger than you individually?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2021)

Heart Over Blade said:


> I don't know if Marco deserves to be called FM+. Fighting non-hybrid King and Queen for a while taxed his stamina, but Queen stopped fighting him a long time ago. Marco ended up in the state he did during his fight with King, who still hasn't gone hybrid. It's not good portrayal for someone who's supposed to be on another level compared to King.


He still completely dominated them in zoan/base forms. In any case he is good deal above King/Queen. And even high diff puts him at FM+.


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## Heart Over Blade (Aug 20, 2021)

Corax said:


> He still completely dominated them in zoan/base forms


For a few panels, then they proceeded to mid diff him without needing to going all out. A few moments of having the upper hand in a long fight where you almost got steamrolled doesn't prove much of anything.


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Corax said:


> He still completely dominated them in zoan/base forms


This is meaningless. Dominating them for a few minutes then losing the power to dominate them while not actually doing damage to holding back opponents is bad for Marco


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Louis-954 said:


> How exactly do you quantify how long he fought each of them? Can you show me the panels that indicate that?


His fight with both of them lasted for as long as Kaido was in dragon form against RT5, which was only a few attacks from each of them
He then attacked Queen when Queen wanted to attack Hyo, King atacked him, Marco countered, and attacked Queen, and then Queen fucked off and fought Chopper.

From there on out, he fought King solo. 20 minutes was the fight between Queen and Chopper. Then Sanji joined Queen.
Sometime later Marco was defeated and King ganged up on Sanji.

5 minutes vs 2 sounds good



Louis-954 said:


> How do you know he never went hybrid? Did Oda give you the off panel information?


lol wut we saw panels of King mid fight with Marco and he wasn't in hybrid



Louis-954 said:


> Also, me and another guy whip your ass for "only 5 minutes", and then I beat on you solo for another "30 minutes", does that mean I'm stronger than you individually?


Do I have a magic fruit that allows me to soak up all damage?

Oh, and here I was thinking that Marco was manhandling the 2 of them. I mean that was the general theory around this forum for the last months. But actually no, he was getting his ass whipped?

The Great Backtracking continues

Reactions: Like 2


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> His fight with both of them lasted for as long as Kaido was in dragon form against RT5, which was only a few attacks from each of them
> He then attacked Queen when Queen wanted to attack Hyo, King atacked him, Marco countered, and attacked Queen, and then Queen fucked off and fought Chopper.
> 
> From there on out, he fought King solo. 20 minutes was the fight between Queen and Chopper. Then Sanji joined Queen.
> ...


Queen fought Chopper after the cure was released.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> His fight with both of them lasted for as long as Kaido was in dragon form against RT5, which was only a few attacks from each of them
> He then attacked Queen when Queen wanted to attack Hyo, King atacked him, Marco countered, and attacked Queen, and then Queen fucked off and fought Chopper.
> 
> From there on out, he fought King solo. 20 minutes was the fight between Queen and Chopper. Then Sanji joined Queen.
> ...


Again, you can't possibly quantify how long he fought both of them or how long he fought King solo. You don't know how much time passed. Your feelings aren't good enough here. We need a hard number backed by the manga otherwise it's bias conjecture.

Right, you saw panels mid-fight. These panels were sporadic and a lot happened off screen* that we did not see.* So again I ask, how do you know  what King did or did not do off panel? 

Marco was man-handling them on panel. There's no debating that. A lot happened off panel as well though which is why he is wearing damage. And before you say all of it is from King or some nonsense like that, he was wearing damage the last time we saw him styling on the All Stars as well. They were getting their licks in.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Bernkastel (Aug 20, 2021)

The duo should win after a high diff fight.
King + Queen > Marco >> King ~ Queen.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## TheNirou (Aug 20, 2021)

Marco's job was not to kill King and Queen but just stall them long enough until Zoro regained his power. 

He is still able to nullifie King's attacks while being tired and injured.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## killfox (Aug 20, 2021)

In a 2 vs 1 where he’s holding them off he constantly blitzed back in forth.

Marco wins. Without distractions it should literally be as easy as  he focusing on one and attacking him continuously until he’s defeated while completely ignoring the others attacks.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## TheNirou (Aug 20, 2021)

Peoples forget that Marco is also retired from piracy.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> "Since both Marco and Teach candidates for filling the vacant Yonko spot."
> 
> Gee I wonder what you can possibly mean by candidate to fill a Yonko spot... Surely not that he's Yonko tier!


Just saw this actually, no that doesn't mean he's yonko tier. Just like Luffy being called the Fifth Emperor doesn't mean he's Yonko tier. They had a war and Marco lost obviously. But hey if you want to be a confrontational, you're the one who called MF teach a top tier lmaoo, as if he'd go either way with Shanks, Mihawk, Kaido etc.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Louis-954 (Aug 20, 2021)

TheNirou said:


> Peoples forget that Marco is also retired from piracy.


Ehh... he's only been out of the game for a year, and he's still only 45 which are prime years in OP. He's 20+ years removed from piracy like Rayleigh.


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## TheNirou (Aug 20, 2021)

Louis-954 said:


> Ehh... he's only been out of the game for a year, and he's still only 45 which are prime years in OP. He's 20+ years removed from piracy like Rayleigh.


He doesn't seem to be as strong as his MF self.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Nah. He lost to the two of them mid diff going all out while both didn't go all out.
> 
> King can extreme diff either way with Marco if h uses his full power.
> 
> While Queen is a high diff fight.


Lol. Marco claps either of them in a 1v1.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Lol. Marco claps either of them in a 1v1.


He didn't clap King in a greater than 30 minute 1v1.

He got exhausted facing both after a few minutes despite the fact that they weren't going all out.

And even the exhaustion excuse fails when we've seen several characters be on their last legs and still beat their opponents.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> He didn't clap King in a greater than 30 minute 1v1.
> 
> He got exhausted facing both after a few minutes despite the fact that they weren't going all out.
> 
> And even the exhaustion excuse fails when we've seen several characters be on their last legs and still beat their opponents.


Whatever helps you sleep at night, holmes. They came at him in a 2v1 and were getting kicked around. That’s what happened at the end of the day.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> No one said he's Yonko level. Good bait.


@Turrin it's your time

Reactions: Funny 9


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Louis-954 said:


> Again, you can't possibly quantify how long he fought both of them or how long he fought King solo. You don't know how much time passed. Your feelings aren't good enough here. We need a hard number backed by the manga otherwise it's bias conjecture.
> 
> Right, you saw panels mid-fight. These panels were sporadic and a lot happened off screen* that we did not see.* So again I ask, how do you know  what King did or did not do off panel?
> 
> Marco was man-handling them on panel. There's no debating that. A lot happened off panel as well though which is why he is wearing damage. And before you say all of it is from King or some nonsense like that, he was wearing damage the last time we saw him styling on the All Stars as well. They were getting their licks in.


It seams I don't need to anything to this.

I already said this several times to the same person.



TheNirou said:


> He is still able to nullifie King's attacks while being tired and injured.


Another one that reads the manga.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> He's YFM. Like Kata and King.
> 
> Any character can stall 2 similar characters for a short time and get clearly overwhelmed without them going all out. Just look at Zoro stalling Kaku and Jyabura
> 
> ...


Marco is admiral level per the databook. The problem is you think admiral level is Yonko level, which is delusional. That's why you can't reconcile the manga with the databook. That's why you have to reject the databook instead of changing your incorrect take.  Hell Kizaru himself says 'victory or defeat can be determined in a single moment's misstep' implying he could have lost to Marco if he misstepped. Ironically you talk about 'idiots' while being one yourself.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Jay. (Aug 20, 2021)

Why would a doctor/phoenix go for people's lives?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Aug 20, 2021)

Marco being able to land on them at will in a 2v1 was impressive but it gets ignored that in that very scene he gets his whole wing sliced off by King while King and Queen got a few drips of blood. This isn't even their hybrid forms also. This is also a Queen who wasn't paying serious attention to Marco and was trying to attack Hyogoro. 
I still think Marco is stronger than King individually just from superior portrayal but it'd be extreme diff.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> Marco is admiral level per the databook. The problem is you think admiral level is Yonko level, which is delusional. That's why you can't reconcile the manga with the databook. That's why you have to reject the databook instead of changing your incorrect take.  Hell Kizaru himself says 'victory or defeat can be determined in a single moment's misstep' implying he could have lost to Marco if he misstepped. Ironically you talk about 'idiots' while being one yourself.


Dude 
Marco's attack was made fun of by Kizaru
Marco's blindsided attack did nothing to Aokiji
Marco got 1 shot so hard by Garp he gave up on saving Ace
Marco failed to hit Akainu

MaRcO iS AdMiRaL LeVeL aS pEr tHe DaTaBoOk

And no, that's not what Kizaru was implying at all.


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## Dunno (Aug 20, 2021)

He sure did. Prime domination right there.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 20, 2021)

This place is so very different than how it was just a few months ago in regards to Marco 

It’s crazy

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 2


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> This place is so very different than how it was just a few months ago in regards to Marco
> 
> It’s crazy


That's the OL

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Y'all are clowns with this backtracking


this directed to me?


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> this directed to me?


You backtracked?


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## Grinningfox (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> That's the OL


So I’m learning 

The Naruto boards are the exact opposite 

It’s like pulling teeth to change anything

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> You backtracked?


Did I?


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## Grinningfox (Aug 20, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> this directed to me?


I haven’t seen you post so I hope not

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> So I’m learning
> 
> The Naruto boards are the exact opposite
> 
> It’s like pulling teeth to change anything


NBD vs OPBD would be a sight to behold

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Did I?


That's what I'm asking?

And besides I was primarily responding to Ren

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> NBD vs OPBD would be a sight to behold


Apocalyptic

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> That's what I'm asking?
> 
> And besides I was primarily responding to Ren


Don’t think I did. I maintained the same logic from my initial post. Every post you see me put up is generally still operating on the same train of thought.

Also, this Marco hate is just unnecessary. If you guys have a way in which you perceive the story or feats, then more power to you. You’re not gonna change the minds of others to your way of thinking by ignoring their arguments. They’re never gonna think that you’re right. Hell I don’t even think I’m right most of the time I post, since there are so many variables to consider, stances to take, or ways to perceive the material.

Honestly couldn’t care less if 12 people or nobody agree with me. I didn’t even know until you quoted my post lol.

If yall are frustrated by the OPBD or the OL in general, then it’s not worth the energy or effort. I suggest going back to the Naruto section if it’s a better fit.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 20, 2021)

Lol


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Also, this Marco hate is just unnecessary.


Waste of time to argue with them.

Just ignore them as I do.



Mihawk said:


> Honestly couldn’t care less if 12 people or nobody agree with me.


I am notorious for not giving a fuck for what OL says and being 1vs the rest of nobodies in here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Also, this Marco hate is just unnecessary.


Funny thing is, I don't hate Marco. I'm just calling out the unjustified wank he was getting.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ren. (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Funny thing is, I don't hate Marco. I'm just calling out the unjustified wank he was getting.


Funny thing that you believe that,  but we respect your opinion, bad as it is.

And I am not referring about how strong Marco is but how you guys think presenting a view will invalidate other views.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (Aug 20, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> He was weakened from fighting both of them, go back and read that chapter


He fought both of them together vor a very little period of time, when Queen wasn't even giving him full attention and they were both in base/animal form. He only fought King most of the time and seems to have lost.


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Marco is the weakest commander if you listen to some folks around here. Every time he attacks they scrutinize every detail to see if there are marks on the opponent, every time he gets hit people go see I told you he's weak. Bruh, it's a fictional character, sit back an enjoy the manga

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 5 | Winner 4


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Lol


Hahaha lol


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Funny thing is, I don't hate Marco.



 



> *I was always right*, I told y'all but you people were too stubborn to listen to me. *Marco is a Flop*,
> 
> *I don't know how people saw a dude get beaten by Admirals*, *one shot by Garp* and *handcuffed by VA *and tell themselves "Yeah he's Admiral level"
> 
> ...



 sure buddy

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> sure buddy


Since when did a little slander equal Hate?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Duhul10 (Aug 20, 2021)

Apparently, now OL members went on defence mode and accuse others of hate because they knew Marco is at best marginally above King while they considered him above both commanders combined


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Apparently, now OL members went on defence mode and accuse others of hate because they knew Marco is at best marginally above King *while they considered him above both commanders combined*


No one said this, stop creating imaginary scenarios.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Apparently, now OL members went on defence mode and accuse others of hate because they knew Marco is at best marginally above King while they considered him above both commanders combined


If you got something to say then say it straight up. “Accuse” lol. This isn’t a goddamn court of law, it’s a forum of fanbases circle jerking each other and everyone has an agenda or bias for their favs. I didn’t accuse the other poster of anything. I respect their opinion and right to it without calling them a wanker or a clown no matter how much I disagree. The same with how I respect yours.

Yall can call it “damage control” or “hurr durr it’s fucking backtracking”. But we all know yall been painting the narrative since day 1 and are incapable of comprehending a different argument.

Stop making straw men arguments and just get to the fucking point...there, now that’s an accusation.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Amol (Aug 20, 2021)

Marco to me is clearly the Strongest YFM level guy shown till now.
He has been fighting King and Queen for hours really. He also has been simultaneously healing thousands of fodders.

He never got overwhelmed by them. He got tired sure which is natural only but whenever he fought them Oda always wrote him looking dominant. That is an excellent portrayal. At the end of the day, Oda is not writing Quantum Physics. Oda wrote Marco looking good against both Calamities which means Oda wants us to consider Marco overall stronger.

Now obviously Marco never stood a chance to defeat them together. He was always going to lose. It is unreasonable to expect him to beat monsters like King and Queen together. Nobody who is not on the Yonkou level can do that. He still did an admirable job.

So Marco is clearly individually stronger than either King or Queen but as Duo they are clearly stronger than him. No need to downplay either side by choosing some extreme.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 4


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## Duhul10 (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> No one said this, stop creating imaginary scenarios.


What is the name of the thread? Also check the first responses and pray for me not to find yours


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## Duhul10 (Aug 20, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> If you got something to say then say it straight up. “Accuse” lol. This isn’t a goddamn court of law, it’s a forum of fanbases circle jerking each other and everyone has an agenda or bias for their favs. I didn’t accuse the other poster of anything. I respect their opinion and right to it without calling them a wanker or a clown no matter how much I disagree. The same with how I respect yours.
> 
> Yall can call it “damage control” or “hurr durr it’s fucking backtracking”. But we all know yall been painting the narrative since day 1 and are incapable of comprehending a different argument.
> 
> Stop making straw men arguments and just get to the fucking point...there, now that’s an accusation.


You're taking it far too serious if you believe I actually give a sh*t about your tiers and others' . I'm just pointing out several individuals' way of going full damage control and losing their temper ( what you're doing basically ).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> What is the name of the thread?


Marco vs King and Queen

The consensus always was that he would lose.


Duhul10 said:


> Also check the first responses and pray for me not to find yours


Please do. I've always said that he would most likely be defeated had the fight went on. The most I've claimed is that he looked dominant every time we saw them _on panel_, which is true up to this chapter.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> You're taking it far too serious if you believe I actually give a sh*t about your tiers and others' . I'm just pointing out several individuals' way of going full damage control and losing their temper ( what you're doing basically ).


Nah i'm just tired of this fucking around and subtext. Putting words in other ppl's mouth and twisting things is a no no.

I'm well aware no one gives a shit (and they shouldn't), but you think anyone gives a toss either? Face it bro, we're all susceptible to double standard. The least we can do is openly acknowledge it instead of acting high and mighty.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Duhul10 (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Marco vs King and Queen
> 
> The consensus always was that he would lose.
> 
> Please do. I've always said that he would most likely be defeated had the fight went on. The most I've claimed is that he looked dominant every time we saw them _on panel_, which is true up to this chapter.


So did you check the first page? Best case for the duo there is high diff, while some say Marco high diffs...imagine that...Also "most likely be defeated" leaves place for doubt, where there was never actually place for doubt, in spite of Marco getting some hits in.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

N-nine pages?  

Marco is the strongest commander. He has the best everything. Keep crying.


Dead Precedence said:


> Do I really have to explain why Benn's portrayal completely outshines Marco's?


Yes.. yes you do.


Dead Precedence said:


> Having a partner relationship with Shanks similar to Luffy/Zoro, Roger/Ray, Kidd/Killer etc, whereas Marco does not share this with WB.


Shanks is not Whitebeard.


Dead Precedence said:


> The first YFM to be introduced (technically) and last to be really revelant,


Being revealed first has nothing to do with being the strongest.

Shanks for example was revealed before many people stronger than him. Mihawk, Whitebeard, Garp etc.


Dead Precedence said:


> 99 percent chance going to have the highest bounty,


Don't know about that.

Doesn't Shanks have the lowest Yonko bounty? We'll have to wait and see.


Dead Precedence said:


> Vivre cards stating he's close to Shanks (yeah yeah that doesn't mean he gives Shanks an extreme diff),


There is a databook stating that Marco is Admiral level. Let's stick to the manga for the sake of your argument.


Dead Precedence said:


> highlighted among commanders as being special in a crew of special commanders,


What does that even mean?

Marco has the most special portrayal amongst the commanders.


Dead Precedence said:


> by necessity has to be the strongest because Shanks crew is small compared to all the others.


Nope.


Dead Precedence said:


> Like anyone with eyes can see why Benn's hype completely outshines Marco's, I don't think he'd mild diff him or anything, but yeah.


Something about this sentence is off.

You think Beckman's hype "completely" outshines Marco's yet you think a fight between them would be of high difficulty.

How can you be so sure then?


Dead Precedence said:


> Also no I don't see that tbh, I see Shanks main force being above their YC status by quite a bit.


Shanks is actually comparable to the other Yonko. Whitebeard's not. He's on another tier compared to the Yonko. He's Roger's equal.

So it's asinine for you to suggest that his commanders are relegated to "YC" tier when Shanks' crew get special treatment.

Whitebeard's commanders should get the benefit of the doubt. We should start by assuming they're the strongest. It just so happens that the Whitebeard commanders have also been by far the most impressive.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> @Turrin it's your time


I said he was the weakest Top Tier. He took on a YC1 and YC2 at the same time + others + healing the live floor and a Yonko admitted it would take a long time to beat him without help; pretty sure I won this one friend


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> So did you check the first page? Best case for the duo there is high diff, while some say Marco high diffs...imagine that...Also "most likely be defeated" leaves place for doubt, *where there was never actually place for doubt, in spite of Marco getting some hits in.*


Of course there was.

All we saw of Marco vs King and Queen up to that point was Marco putting their faces into the dirt (at the same time) and him taking no clean hits. Sure, he said he was at his limit, but we didn't know if King and Queen were as well. The last page we saw of them, they were spitting out blood, cursing Marco.

Personally I never said Marco beats both. I think my reply to his thread was a troll saying "not sure yet". I knew the whole time King and Queen would fight Sanji and Zoro, so it made no sense to me that Marco could take both.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Aug 20, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I said he was the weakest Top Tier. He took on a YC1 and YC2 at the same time + others + healing the live floor and a Yonko admitted it would take a long time to beat him without help; pretty sure I won this one friend


Didn’t want to have to do it 


Turrin said:


> Why is he equal to Marco?
> 
> Ether way P2 Marco is probably >= Kaidou as well. Phoenix >= Dragon. And Marco was already top YC1 in MF if he got stronger now he is likely Low-Yonko level like Kaidou

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2021)

General opinion has been always King+Queen vs Marco=win for duo high diff. This just has changed to upper mid or mid. Nothing dramatical here. Marco is still superior to any of them.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Lord Stark (Aug 20, 2021)

High diff for the duo, which has not changed since this battle began

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Karma (Aug 20, 2021)

Louis-954 said:


> Again, you can't possibly quantify how long he fought both of them or how long he fought King solo.


Hes been fighting King for at least 30 minutes since thats how long Monster point lasts


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

Lord Stark said:


> High diff for the duo, which has not changed since this battle began


I would say mid.

Marco never really had a chance of winning But King and Queen weren't playing around at any point. Mid makes the most sense then IMO.


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Didn’t want to have to do it


Jesus Christ!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Aug 20, 2021)

Lord Stark said:


> High diff for the duo, which has not changed since this battle began


Definitely wouldn’t call it high diff, King didn’t even go hybrid and Queen was involved for maybe half of the fight being generous. They also went on to put Sanji down and still look fresh.


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## Lord Stark (Aug 20, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Definitely wouldn’t call it high diff, King didn’t even go hybrid and Queen was involved for maybe half of the fight being generous. They also went on to put Sanji down and still look fresh.



Majority of the fight was offpaneled and queen was occupied enough he couldn’t leave the battlefield. Marco was fending off king, queen, and fodder while keeping peeps on the floor alive.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Lord Stark said:


> queen was occupied enough he couldn’t leave the battlefield


... By Chopper


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Finishing the spoiler section panel recompilation:

995: Marco clashes with Big mom. Get restrained by neck grab
1000:Marco tanks/heal queen bullets to get Zoro to the rooftop/Restrained king/queen at the same time.
1004: king hands full comment, cannot leave live floor for scabbards. (which should be priority targets)
1005:King Bombarding Marco with range attack,* fodder causalities in the background,*
1006: Marco hits and successfully intervenes against queen. Evades queen reaction attack. gets wing cut off by king. Counters King with flame and finish it off with a solid knee bomb before King recuperates. Queen goes to wreckage just to get casually send off flying by a Marco kick before queen can react. "*holding back to billion bounty opponents is hard*" King bleeds from the knee bomb, Queen gets up.
1007: *Marco constraints Queen to allow Chopper to Slap him*
1015: Marco considerably roughed up. Reaction to Sanji's intervention.
1022: King and Queen are rampaging. Marco is gassed out. We get a shot of Sanji conceding he's incapable of dealing with both YCs at the same time. *Interestingly enough, one of the fodder is asking for Marco to return. Accentuating Marco was actively stopping both Queen and King from rampaging.* Sanji's try didn't have a lasting effect on the fodder mind.

Queen:
1007: Queen monologuing/Slapped by deer.
1014: Queen suplexed by deer
1015: kicked by sanjino after Queen bit Chopper.
1016: Queen amused by Otama
1017: Kick by Sanjino while trying to attack a little girl, goes to hybrid.
1019: Seemingly shooting lasers against Sanji. But general explosion in the battlefield.

*CP0 meta analysis
1003: "If they don't deal with Kaido's executive, the alliance stands to lose 100s of troops at a time"*

So it would appear, some where between 1000/1004 the strategy against Marco became King holds him off in either full zoan or base. While Queen fights fodder. Because Marco cares about the normal dudes and they don't, he's at disadvantage and needs to sometimes intervene. (at least once)

Chopper begins to try to intervene vs Queen between 1007/1015. Marco vs King is offpanelled during this time.

The way that Oda seemed to have played this is. Marco vs King/Queen being in the setting of the live floor was more *inclined into an all out war. *Than a proper fight. And the alliance had 5k strong versus 27k. Which means its no wonder that Marco was the underdog, as he actually cared about fodders on his side.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 7 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> *Interestingly enough, one of the fodder is asking for Marco to return. Accentuating Marco was actively stopping both Queen and King from rampaging.*


This.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Interestingly enough, one of the fodder is asking for Marco to return. Accentuating Marco was actively stopping both Queen and King from rampaging.


uhm, no. Queen was fighting Chopper for 20 minutes while Marco was fighting King. It was explicitly stated. Then Sanji replaced Chopper and fought Queen by himself while King fought Marco.

BTW: The fodder from the Beast Pirates asks for Marco to return as a response to King alone saying "You're all gonna pay for betraying the Beast Pirates". If you want to take anything from that, it's that the fodder is asking Marco to save him from King, like he had been doing for the last 30 minutes

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

This thread is like a confessional inquisition where guys get their past records dug up and used against them before they get to plead the fifth or make a statement of defence  

Yall on some dirt

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 8


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## J★J♥ (Aug 20, 2021)

I would bet on Marco.


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## Bernkastel (Aug 20, 2021)

I love also the fact that people keep bringing the fact that King and Queen didn't use hybrid while completely ignoring Marco wastes huge amounts of stamina to constantly keep fodders from turning to demons...and did we ever see Marco go hybrid? all I remember is him partially transforming his body to phoenix parts?

Also in the end he seems pretty fine and chill after blocking King with no serious injuries which means he's still not done for the arc. The dude is a monster and has the best FM portrayal so far along with Rayleigh which is not surprising given who their captains were.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 3 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> uhm, no. Queen was fighting Chopper for 20 minutes while Marco was fighting King. It was explicitly stated. Then Sanji replaced Chopper and fought Queen by himself while King fought Marco.
> 
> BTW: The fodder from the Beast Pirates asks for Marco to return as a response to King alone saying "You're all gonna pay for betraying the Beast Pirates". If you want to take anything from that, it's that the fodder is asking Marco to save him from King, like he had been doing for the last 30 minutes


yall are stupid fr

the intention was that marco was fighting queen and king and thats why he was at a limit

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 20, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> N-nine pages?
> 
> Marco is the strongest commander. He has the best everything. Keep crying.


He's not stronger than Beckmann, whether he's stronger than the other two doesn't matter. 


Shunsuiju said:


> Yes.. yes you do.


I really didn't have to, everyone is well aware of this, and you yourself are aware of this. This did not need to be clarified to anyone other than the most ardent Whitebeard Pirates fanboys.


Shunsuiju said:


> Shanks is not Whitebeard.


I knew you'd come back with this retort, lmao. Point is his dynamic with WB is the same as Katakuri to Big Mom, he's her literal son just like Marco is WB's adopted son. Anyone with the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader can tell what Oda's trying to go for. Also WB's not in his prime anymore, even if you want to go with B-but WB's da StRonGeSt, he'd still at best win with extreme diff against the other yonko, he's not on some other tier at his old self. Old WB is not pushing Roger to extreme, lmao.


Shunsuiju said:


> Being revealed first has nothing to do with being the strongest.


It is when he's being saved for last. It's why people hype Mihawk and Shanks to the moon because they've been introduced early on yet Oda is still saving them, for later. Ever heard of the phrase, saved the best for last?


Shunsuiju said:


> Shanks for example was revealed before many people stronger than him. Mihawk, Whitebeard, Garp etc.


Mihawk was revealed in the east blue, he's one of the earliest revealed characters. Him being after Shanks like 50 or so chapters later in a 1000 chapter manga is like saying that Sanji was introduced after Ussop. WB is the only one you have point for, as Garp was also introduced early on, and if you want to get technical we've known about him since Romance Dawn which is why he was introduced with the Dog Mask. 

Like I said you, yourself are aware of the significance of all this but are being willfully ignorant. Cue, the retort with Im and Xebec which would be missing the point of the comparisons to begin with.



Shunsuiju said:


> Don't know about that.


I'm confident that he has the highest bounty. Shanks crewmates bounties have been highlighted time after time. You, yourself, believe that bounty is a good, if not a 1:1, indicator of strength. Are you willing to put it on the line that Beckmann's isn't higher than Marco's? Whether it's by a significant or marginal amount doesn't matter.


Shunsuiju said:


> Doesn't Shanks have the lowest Yonko bounty? We'll have to wait and see.


Different scenario, since Shanks is the youngest yonko who hasn't been at it as long as the others, on top of that Shanks isn't malevolent so nothing would his raise his bounty, hell he doesn't even want to be PK. But even then, there's a decent chance that Shanks isn't even stronger than Kaido and Big Mom anyway, whereas there's no chance that Beckmann isn't the strongest YFM.


Shunsuiju said:


> There is a databook stating that Marco is Admiral level. Let's stick to the manga for the sake of your argument.


Lmao, no you don't get to do this. Benn has no feats so nothing at all to really base his hype off of other than his portrayal and vivre cards. You don't get to use the Marco is admiral level retort, because Marco has clearly shown he is not on that level and has shown to be inferior to other top tiers. We've seen Marco's limit, we have not seen Benn's. You just want to throw out anything that hypes up Benn's standing to be head and shoulders above Marco's.


Shunsuiju said:


> What does that even mean?
> 
> Marco has the most special portrayal amongst the commanders.


What do you think it means? Beckmann is a standout amongst standout Yonko Commanders


Shunsuiju said:


> Nope.


Yes, yes it does. Lmao, you Whitebeard Pirates fans want him to be the strongest Yonko on top of having a crew that his head and shoulders above every other yonkos. Lmao, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too my dude. There is a deadlock, for that to be retroactively retconned would be shit worldbuilding by Oda just so that you can hold on to the WBP coin.


Shunsuiju said:


> Something about this sentence is off.
> 
> You think Beckman's hype "completely" outshines Marco's yet you think a fight between them would be of high difficulty.


High diff=/= extreme diff. I have Beckmann giving other top tiers a high diff, Marco I do not. I have Marco giving Beckmann a high diff though. 


Shunsuiju said:


> How can you be so sure then?
> 
> Shanks is actually comparable to the other Yonko. Whitebeard's not. He's on another tier compared to the Yonko. He's Roger's equal.


Lmao, yes he is. Whitebeard is no longer in his prime. He WAS equal to Roger, Old WB (let alone sick MF WB which people still cling on to as the WSM lol) would not give Roger extreme diff. If WB is in another tier compared to the Yonko, he would not be a Yonko. That's like Saying Kizaru or Aokiji, are in another tier compared to the Admirals.


Shunsuiju said:


> So it's asinine for you to suggest that his commanders are relegated to "YC" tier when Shanks' crew get special treatment.
> 
> Whitebeard's commanders should get the benefit of the doubt. We should start by assuming they're the strongest. It just so happens that the Whitebeard commanders have also been by far the most impressive.


There's no reason to assume that WBP are stronger than RHP.


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> yall are stupid fr
> 
> the intention was that marco was fighting queen and king and thats why he was at a limit


Sure thing buddy

Fights King and Queen for 5 minutes before the Beast pirates turn
Fights King alone for 30 minutes, around 10 of which after the Beast Pirates turn
King threatens the traitors
The traitors ask for Marco's help in response

ThEy WeRe  AsKiNg fOr HiM bEcAuSe He WaS hOlDiNg ThEm BoTh  

Must be nice to be this dumb. I hear ignorance is a bliss

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> He's not stronger than Beckmann, whether he's stronger than the other two doesn't matter.
> 
> I really didn't have to, everyone is well aware of this, and you yourself are aware of this. This did not need to be clarified to anyone other than the most ardent Whitebeard Pirates fanboys.
> 
> ...


They are confirmed to have been the strongest crew in the world by the narrator in chapter 909. Also MF was known as the War of the Best.

WB was above the other Yonko even in his old age. There's a reason he was called the Ruler of the Seas by Garp and the man closest to OP by Buggy. Only reason he wasn't the Pirate King was his own choice.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> uhm, no. Queen was fighting Chopper for 20 minutes while Marco was fighting King. It was explicitly stated. Then Sanji replaced Chopper and fought Queen by himself while King fought Marco.
> 
> BTW: The fodder from the Beast Pirates asks for Marco to return as a response to King alone saying "You're all gonna pay for betraying the Beast Pirates". If you want to take anything from that, it's that the fodder is asking Marco to save him from King, like he had been doing for the last 30 minutes


Panel for time reference? But most of chopper/queen interaction are a philosophical debate. About how much of a prick Queen is, lol.


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Bernkastel said:


> ignoring Marco wastes huge amounts of stamina to constantly keep fodders from turning to demons


False. The samurai states Marco's flames are using his(the samurais) own stamina to heal them.

And Marco producing the flames can't be a big drain on his stamina because Doflamingo casually did astronomically more than this with his strings while being injured. Otherwise you might as well be implying Marco has less stamina than Doflamingo.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Panel for time reference? But most of chopper/queen interaction are a philosophical debate. About how much of a prick Queen is, lol


Choppers new and improved Monster Point lasts 30 minutes, and once he goes Monster Point he fights Queen until Sanji comes to replace him


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Choppers new and improved Monster Point lasts 30 minutes, and once he goes Monster Point he fights Queen until Sanji comes to replace him


Interesting, by the way. Homeboy here made the mistake of not realizing/acknowledging that the slap only happened AFTER Marco restrained queen by grabbing his NECK. LOL

(which means out of 1/2 interaction Slap/suplexed.) Marco is involved.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Sure thing buddy
> 
> Fights King and Queen for 5 minutes before the Beast pirates turn
> Fights King alone for 30 minutes, around 10 of which after the Beast Pirates turn
> ...


you think King alone would push Marco to this state?

I don't care about anything else. Of course I think King vs Marco would be a high diff fight.


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## Dead Precedence (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> They are confirmed to have been the strongest crew in the world by the narrator in chapter 909. Also MF was known as the War of the Best.


So tell me, what reason would Shanks' crew being the smallest be if he doesn't have the strongest core crew? Whitebeard Pirates are a ginormous fleet, the very well could be stronger than Shanks' crew due to sheer numbers and more members. That doesn't mean that Marco=Beckmann (let alone him being stronger), everyone who hypes Marco as being YFM, Jozu YC1, etc. this more likely applies to the RHP since they don't have the chaff that other Yonko crews do.


Eustathios said:


> WB was above the other Yonko even in his old age. There's a reason he was called the Ruler of the Seas by Garp and the man closest to OP by Buggy.


Shanks also has no aspirations to be PK, even if you want to make the argument, which lots of people do, that he cockblocked Big Mom and Kaido's crew, he certainly didn't cockblock RHP. Again what good would Shanks' crew be if they werent above their paygrade when they have a smaller crew to than the other Yonko?


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Interesting, by the way. Homeboy here made the mistake of not realizing/acknowledging that the slap only happened AFTER Marco restrained queen by grabbing his NECK. LOL
> 
> (which means out of 2 interaction Slap/suplexed.) Marco is involved.


I wasn't talking about the slap, it was the overall interaction. Therefore Marco holding Queen for a slap lasted for a miniscule amount of time compared to his 30 minutes with chopper


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Panel for time reference? But most of chopper/queen interaction are a philosophical debate. About how much of a prick Queen is, lol.




Chopper had 10 minutes left on his 30 minute Monster mode timer

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> Lmao, no you don't get to do this. Benn has no feats so nothing at all to really base his hype off of other than his portrayal and vivre cards. You don't get to use the Marco is admiral level retort, because Marco has clearly shown he is not on that level and has shown to be inferior to other top tiers. We've seen Marco's limit, we have not seen Benn's. You just want to throw out anything that hypes up Benn's standing to be head and shoulders above Marco's.




I'm good.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Chopper had 10 minutes left on his 30 minute Monster mode timer



Do you think Marco coming out of nowhere after Queen and Chopper monologuing. To assist Chopper on his attack is an indication that Oda might be trying to reinforce the point of Marco's involvement in every aspect of the live floor resistence against King/Queen?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Chopper had 10 minutes left on his 30 minute Monster mode timer


Seriously, why are you guys so hung up on this?

Marco was doing way more than King and Queen. That's why he was exhausted.

In a one on one against either, he wouldn't be so exhausted. He would fight for 10 days straight if needed.


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

This entire page is still too funny to me

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Do you think Marco coming out of nowhere after Queen and Chopper monologuing. To assist Chopper on his attack is an indication that Oda might be trying to reinforce the point of Marco's involvement in every aspect of the live floor resistence against King/Queen?


No. Marco didn't come out of nowhere. He was fighting Queen and King. Queen was thrown inside the building, and when he left he started screaming at the Beast Pirates and attacked Chopper. Marco just attacked him again because they were still fighting.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lmao (Aug 20, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> you think King alone would push Marco to this state?


Not entirely unlikely honestly, ever since the WB remnants lost their territory Marco "retired" to that village and hasn't fought anyone strong (I could be wrong as I don't remember details) meanwhile King has been active the entire time. It's not unreasonable to believe King could solo Marco.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> In a one on one against either, he wouldn't be so exhausted. He would fight for 10 days straight if needed.




Just stop dude seriously


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Dead Precedence said:


> So tell me, what reason would Shanks' crew being the smallest be if he doesn't have the strongest core crew? Whitebeard Pirates are a ginormous fleet, the very well could be stronger than Shanks' crew due to sheer numbers and more members. That doesn't mean that Marco=Beckmann (let alone him being stronger), everyone who hypes Marco as being YFM, Jozu YC1, etc. this more likely applies to the RHP since they don't have the chaff that other Yonko crews do.


The RHP have plenty of fodder. We see them when WB meets Shanks. They have the likes of Rockstar in their crew. We'll have to wait and see how Shanks' crew works to have a full understanding. I won't throw out the possibility of his top commanders being stronger, but we'll see.


Dead Precedence said:


> Shanks also has no aspirations to be PK, even if you want to make the argument, which lots of people do, that he cockblocked Big Mom and Kaido's crew, he certainly didn't cockblock RHP. Again what good would Shanks' crew be if they werent above their paygrade when they have a smaller crew to than the other Yonko?


WB was still above him and recognized as such. For reference, I have the RHP as almost equal to the WBP and above both the Beast Pirates and BMPs. They were probably around the same level as MF WBPs, maybe slightly stronger. The only version of the WBPs I see being clearly (not by much) stronger is the one with Teach, Ace and Thatch, when WB's health was also at a much better state.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> No. Marco didn't come out of nowhere. He was fighting Queen and King. Queen was thrown inside the building, and when he left he started screaming at the Beast Pirates and attacked Chopper. Marco just attacked him again because they were still fighting.


We have 3 panel of combat interaction. Slap/Suplexed/biting choper (sanjino intervenes) 
1/3 Marco intervenes. 1/3 Sanji intervenes. You're saying that for 20 minutes Chopper was single handedly dealing with Queen despites Oda's 2/3 example of assistance providing to Chopper?


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Just stop dude seriously


Fine, if that triggers you so much, 5 days. Rookie Ace fought 5 days. It wouldn't even last that long, Marco would beat King like Zoro's about to.


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 20, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Not entirely unlikely honestly, ever since the WB remnants lost their territory Marco "retired" to that village and hasn't fought anyone strong (I could be wrong as I don't remember details) meanwhile King has been active the entire time. *It's not unreasonable to believe King could solo Marco.*


It's not, but Marco's not laying on the floor exhausted fighting King on his own for an hour. That makes no sense.


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> We have 3 panel of combat interaction. Slap/Suplexed/biting choper (sanjino intervenes)
> 1/3 Marco intervenes. 1/3 Sanji intervenes. You're saying that for 20 minutes Chopper was single handedly dealing with Queen despites Oda's 2/3 example of assistance providing to Chopper?


Yes.



"a guy who's winning"
"Nothing seems to hurt Queen!"

It's very clear by Chopper's inner monologue that he's been attacking Queen non stop for 20 minutes and not being able to damage him
And it's clear by Queen's comment that Chopper has been fighting him alone and "winning"


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Didn’t want to have to do it


That post was like from a year ago baiting some Kaidou Stan, my main premise has always been Marco is the weakest Top Tier and Kaidou is average to slightly above average Top Tier (unless you separate PK Tier and Top Tier, in which case Kaidou may be high Top Tier but beneath PK Tier).


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know fam, I feel like there is a difference between being the main opponent and not winning/exhausting your capacity to be fruitful. And being the singular fighter in a live floor that is characterize by multiple interventions as it is an all out war.

The way that the live floor is treated, seems to indicate heavily that opportunistic assistance from Marco is the norm. Which are short but significant. (Marco intervening when Queen is about to attack Hyogoro, Marco intervening to allow Chopper to slap Queen. Sanji intervening when Queen is attacking chopper, Sanji intervening when Queen is about to attack otama) I think is fairer to presume that Marco was an active participant even while offpanneled. Because while in Panel he always had a great presence in the floor.

If we look a the ratio because of the limited panels.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> The way that the live floor is treated, seems to indicate heavily that opportunistic assistance from Marco.


Both Marco's assistances were during his fight with Queen and King. When he saves Hyo he literally tells Queen "Hey, I'm your opponent". When he grabs Queen's neck it's a couple seconds after he kicked Queen in the face. They were still in their fight.

Marco's whole point in this entire war is "This is not my war, I'm just supporting, this is the SHs war" "this is the new generation taking over" "Time for the stars to climb to the stage". I can't imagine a single reason why he'd interfere in a SH fight.



TrolonoaZoro said:


> I think is fairer to presume that Marco was an active participant even while offpanneled. Because while in Panel he always had a great presence in the floor.


That's fair but it goes against Marco's role in the war, and Chopper/Queen's comments.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lmao (Aug 20, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> It's not, but Marco's not laying on the floor exhausted fighting King on his own for an hour. That makes no sense.


I agree he's not exhausted from fighting King alone, he clearly fought them 1v2 for some time. It's also worth mentioning King is in base form and has taken minimal damage so far which is quite impressive, he also seems highly intelligent as he instantly tried to murder bandaged Zoro while he was in no rush to finish Marco/Sanji, he seems to recognize threats accurately.

The way I rank these two:

MF Marco > Wano King 
Wano King > Wano Marco


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

Lmao said:


> I agree he's not exhausted from fighting King alone, he clearly fought them 1v2 for some time. It's also worth mentioning King is in base form and has taken minimal damage so far which is quite impressive, he also seems highly intelligent as he instantly tried to murder bandaged Zoro while he was in no rush to finish Marco/Sanji, he seems to recognize threats accurately.
> 
> The way I rank these two:
> 
> ...


Why is MF Marco > Wano Marco?
It's not like WB's main ship crew was fighting much who the fuck would get in their way? I doubt him being retired for less than 2 years would weaken him significantly. One could even say he grew stronger from fighting BB tbh

Reactions: Winner 2


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Both Marco's assistances were during his fight with Queen and King. When he saves Hyo he literally tells Queen "Hey, I'm your opponent". When he grabs Queen's neck it's a couple seconds after he kicked Queen in the face. They were still in their fight.
> 
> Marco's whole point in this entire war is "This is not my war, I'm just supporting, this is the SHs war" "this is the new generation taking over" "Time for the stars to climb to the stage". I can't imagine a single reason why he'd interfere in a SH fight.
> 
> ...


I don't see how you can read chapter 1007, that's 80 percent establishing the philosophical difference between Queen and Chopper. Just to have Marco in the last page pop out of literally nowhere and just say "pop him, chopper" and honestly think that Marco has any qualms with assisting Chopper, bro.

That's just straight up not true.


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Just to have Marco in the last page pop out of literally nowhere and just say "pop him, chopper" and honestly think that Marco has any qualms with assisting Chopper, bro.


Why do you keep saying he popped out of nowhere? He literally kicked Queen's face 10 seconds before? They were in a fight and Queen stopped caring about Marco mid way cuz he's dumb bro

Marco was giving Chopper the fight. He wasn't assisting, he was saying "Alright kid, take care of this guy for me will ya?"


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Why do you keep saying he popped out of nowhere? He literally kicked Queen's face 10 seconds before? They were in a fight and Queen stopped caring about Marco mid way cuz he's dumb bro
> 
> Marco was giving Chopper the fight. He wasn't assisting, he was saying "Alright kid, take care of this guy for me will ya?"


Marco phoenix clawing Queen in the previous chapter is indication that Marco WOULDN'T attack Queen after your arbitrary timeframe of post chapter 1007? Where Marco yet again assist Chopper against Queen?


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Marco phoenix clawing Queen in the previous chapter is indication that Marco WOULDN'T attack Queen after your arbitrary timeframe of post chapter 1007? Where Marco yet again assist against Chopper against Queen?


No. Marco clawing Queen in the previous chapter is indication that Marco was still fighting Queen and Chopper only started fighting Queen after he first attacked him. After Marco handed him the fight.

Chopper's fight started after Marco last was seen attacking Queen. Coincidence?


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> No. Marco clawing Queen in the previous chapter is indication that Marco was still fighting Queen and Chopper only started fighting Queen after he first attacked him. After Marco handed him the fight.
> 
> Chopper's fight started after Marco last was seen attacking Queen. Coincidence?


Marco is an interventionist. Until he's not an interventionist because he wouldn't help strawhats. But the time he literally alley oop a slap doesn't count because that was merely a continuation of his previous fight. Even though he literally just restrained queen in order to allow chopper to explicitly slap him? He literally said "I'm Marco, I'm intervening in this philosophical exchange between Chopper and Queen, to help Chopper attack Queen"

Bro, you're wilding.


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## Eustathios (Aug 20, 2021)

Despite all the debates, know that I respect all of you guys' opinions even if we may disagree. It's just manga in the end and it's about enjoying it first and foremost

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Friendly 8


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## Lmao (Aug 20, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Why is MF Marco > Wano Marco?
> It's not like WB's main ship crew was fighting much who the fuck would get in their way? I doubt him being retired for less than 2 years would weaken him significantly. One could even say he grew stronger from fighting BB tbh


Being active pirate > being inactive, that's just common sense and being inactive for almost two years is a long time when you consider the gap between Marco/King isn't that big to begin with.

As for fighting, they still have territory to defend and allies to assist in times of need it doesn't have to be a direct challenge to the crew. There's adventuring to islands and encountering beasts or other crews that have been there before them etc, all of that counts towards getting stronger.


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 20, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Marco is an interventionist.


Marco attacking the guy he's fighting isn't him being an interventionist

Marco was already fighting Queen when Queen turned around and went for Hyo
Marco was already fighting Queen when Queen turned around and went for Chopper

You keep ignoring this for some reason.

The moment Chopper attacked Queen was the last time we saw Marco do anything. Why are you ignoring this?
Queen comments makes sense that Chopper was fighting him alone, why are you ignoring this?
Chopper's comments make sense that Chopper was fighting him alone, why are you ignoring this?
Why was Marco the interventionist suddenly not intervening when Chopper and the fodder actually needed him and Sanji had to step up?

I mean, you yourself say that that entire chapter was setting up the philosophical differences between Chopper and Queen... But you don't think that was setting up Chopper fighting Queen? Why would Marco interfere in their philosophical fight at all?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Despite all the debates, know that I respect all of you guys' opinions even if we may disagree. It's just manga in the end and it's about enjoying it first and foremost



It's okay. It's only through the heat of vitriol and dispute where the fire forges respect and understanding with our fellow man

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 20, 2021)

Lets agree to disagree. But my argument was never that Chopper wasn't fighting Queen.
In fact, I explicitly stated that Queen was actively ignoring Marco, but he's the one that imposed on himself to intervene against Queens rampage to lower a blow to the alliance.

Which is basically physically impossible for you to ignore. If you wish to be rational. As it is explicitly stated and shown throughout the entirety of the LIVE floor war. Included in the latest chapter/

 Remember you literally pull the rule of non-strawhat intervention out of nowhere.
"marco don't intervene with em strawhat and the time he did he saw it as his personal fight, regardless of the fact that literally invokes Chopper to attack"

Which is literally your argument. Which is literally asinine by the fact that we have a literal manga panel that goes against it, lol.


Strobacaxi said:


> Marco attacking the guy he's fighting isn't him being an interventionist
> 
> Marco was already fighting Queen when Queen turned around and went for Hyo
> Marco was already fighting Queen when Queen turned around and went for Chopper
> ...


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## Bernkastel (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> False. The samurai states Marco's flames are using his(the samurais) own stamina to heal them.



Panel of this statement?



Kagutsutchi said:


> And Marco producing the flames can't be a big drain on his stamina because Doflamingo casually did astronomically more than this with his strings while being injured. Otherwise you might as well be implying Marco has less stamina than Doflamingo.


Wtf did Doflamingo do with his strings?  
All he did was get humiliated by Luffy.
Marco humiliated both of them at the same time and they still didn't manage to keep him down...even in a worn out state when everyone thought he was his limit he completely blocked Kings attack and was even mocking them


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Bernkastel said:


> Panel of this statement?



These Blue flames help while we have stamina. They are dependent on the patients own stamina.

Similar to what Ivankov did for Luffy in Impel Down.




Bernkastel said:


> Wtf did Doflamingo do with his strings?


Birdcage you clown. And he also actively used them to attack Luffy. All this in addition to the large volume of strings created in the first place




Bernkastel said:


> All he did was get humiliated by Luffy.


Doesn't fucking matter. He created more strings and used them in more taxing ways than Marco just conjuring his flames and then leaving the targets to get healed by their own stamina.




Bernkastel said:


> Marco humiliated both of them at the same time and they still didn't manage to keep him down...even in a worn out state when everyone thought he was his limit he completely blocked Kings attack and was even mocking them


Doesn't matter. As long as you drop this argument of Marco healing fodder being draining to him in some way.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bernkastel (Aug 20, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> These Blue flames help while we have stamina. They are dependent on the patients own stamina.


This doesn't say anything about Marco not using stamina in the first place to use the flames...


Kagutsutchi said:


> Birdcage you clown. And he also actively used them to attack Luffy. All this in addition to the large volume of strings created in the first place



Show me the panel where birdcage was said or shown to require huge amount of stamina other than your own fanfiction clown.


Kagutsutchi said:


> Doesn't fucking matter. He created more strings and used them in more taxing ways than Marco just conjuring his flames and then leaving the targets to get healed by their own stamina.


All he did was swing his strings around...doesn't even compare to regenerating lethal damage,fighting YC1/2 at the same time and having to use said powers on numerous other humans...


Kagutsutchi said:


> Doesn't matter. As long as you drop this argument of Marco healing fodder being draining to him in some way.


Learn how stamina loss works...if it was not costing anything he would've used it on the entire WB army in MF but obviously he couldn't afford it...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Aug 20, 2021)

Bernkastel said:


> This doesn't say anything about Marco not using stamina in the first place to use the flames...


Do you not understand? If using flames of such a small volume is such a big deal, then that means he has less stamina than Doflamingo. 

You're 29, how are you failing at such basic comprehension?



Bernkastel said:


> Show me the panel where birdcage was said or shown to require huge amount of stamina other than your own fanfiction clown.


Lol. Weren't you the clownass that first started claiming Marco used up his Stamina to heal fodders? Even though Marco never said this himself?

I simply pointed out that if using his power like that requires stamina, then Doflamingo's own fruit powers require stamina too, and a much greater amount since he used a vaster amount of substance in a more active manner than Marco.




Bernkastel said:


> All he did was swing his strings around...


On top of using Birdcage to destroy the country.




Bernkastel said:


> around...doesn't even compare to regenerating lethal damage,fighting YC1/2 at the same time


Notice how I never brought up these specific points to debunk. I've always believed these greatly exhausted Marco, because Marco himself says these are what is exhausting him.

It's you trolls who then add to that by bringing up the fodders and everything Marco did since he woke up in the morning when Marco and Oda make it clear he wasn't exhausted by that



Bernkastel said:


> and having to use said powers on numerous other humans...


I've already pointed out how this can't be taxing to him but it seems like it's too much for you to fathom.




Bernkastel said:


> Learn how stamina loss works...if it was not costing anything he would've used it on the entire WB army in MF but obviously he couldn't afford it...


You learn how to think in a logical manner.

Marco's fruit drains stamina of those it heals and it doesn't even heal them that much:

_(Only barely heals a broken leg that still uses it's own natural healing and an entire day to fully fix)_​
So combine these two facts together and if you don't have a room temperature IQ, you'll realize Marco might do more damage to his allies than any good.

But anyway, I realize I'm talking to a brick wall. This will be my last reply to your ass.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (Aug 20, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> How do you define top tier?


 
Admirals are the strongest marine.

Yonko are the strongest pirates.

If after fighting someone then have equal or less than 10 HP then they are top tiers. If not, then they are not.


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## Ren. (Aug 21, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Finishing the spoiler section panel recompilation:
> 
> 995: Marco clashes with Big mom. Get restrained by neck grab
> 1000:Marco tanks/heal queen bullets to get Zoro to the rooftop/Restrained king/queen at the same time.
> ...


Someone had time to burn.

Thanks mate.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Freechoice (Aug 21, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Whatever helps you sleep at night, holmes. They came at him in a 2v1 and were getting kicked around. That’s what happened at the end of the day.



You're a legend. Putting @Kagutsutchi in his place

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Dislike 1


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## Ren. (Aug 21, 2021)

Freechoice said:


> You're a legend. Putting @Kagutsutchi in his place


Neah putting him on his place is easy.

And pointless but congrats @Lee-Sensei


He even think that he does not hate Marco, it is like me saying I don't hate the Zoro wank ...

Reactions: Like 2


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## Seraphoenix (Aug 21, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Dude
> Marco's attack was made fun of by Kizaru
> Marco's blindsided attack did nothing to Aokiji
> Marco got 1 shot so hard by Garp he gave up on saving Ace
> ...


It's a fact that the databook says he is admiral level. It's a fact that Kizaru implies he could have lost if he misstepped. 

Your own biased interpretation means dogshit. Absolute dogshit. You already fail at the first sentence. Both Kizaru and Marco were making fun of each other, if you actually read the manga (Given your posts, I assume like others that you have a word of mouth knowledge of pre-skip). Kizaru attacked Marco and Marco said it hurt. Kizaru then calls him a liar. Marco then kicks Kizaru who says it hurts, to which Marco calls him a liar. They were bantering with each other. If Marco's kick wasn't serious, then Kizaru wouldn't have turned into light, and caused a huge explosion that damaged MF (Which Akainu was whining they had to protect) and potentially injured or killed marines. At the end of the exchange Kizaru doesn't even attempt to go back to try and get past Marco. 

The rest of your post is again a very dumb take on what happened. 

Databook and Kizaru's own words> your dumbass

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Bernkastel (Aug 21, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Do you not understand? If using flames of such a small volume is such a big deal, then that means he has less stamina than Doflamingo.
> 
> You're 29, how are you failing at such basic comprehension?


"Small volume" 


Kagutsutchi said:


> Lol. Weren't you the clownass that first started claiming Marco used up his Stamina to heal fodders? Even though Marco never said this himself?


He did  


Kagutsutchi said:


> I simply pointed out that if using his power like that requires stamina, then Doflamingo's own fruit powers require stamina too, and a much greater amount since he used a vaster amount of substance in a more active manner than Marco.


Except we know Marco's fruit drains stamina while there was never a mention of DD using stamina...some fruits like Law's and Marco's are far more taxing due to their brokedness...if you think that using strings is as taxing then be my guest...your braincelss are few anyway so I don't expect any better from you.


Kagutsutchi said:


> On top of using Birdcage to destroy the country.


Slower than a tortoise...and still failed so nothing impressive...also no huge amount of stamina drain...never mentioned.never showed.
When something is taxing Oda highlights it...which was never the case with plotcage.


Kagutsutchi said:


> Notice how I never brought up these specific points to debunk. I've always believed these greatly exhausted Marco, because Marco himself says these are what is exhausting him.
> 
> It's you trolls who then add to that by bringing up the fodders and everything Marco did since he woke up in the morning when Marco and Oda make it clear he wasn't exhausted by that


1+1 = 2
Not my fault you can't use logic.


Kagutsutchi said:


> I've already pointed out how this can't be taxing to him but it seems like it's too much for you to fathom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you even read? Using his flames which by extension heal themselves uses stamina...using those flames on multiple soldiers wastes stamina...never disagreed that to "activate" the regen factor wastes their own stamina.


Kagutsutchi said:


> But anyway, I realize I'm talking to a brick wall. This will be my last reply to your ass.


Oh no,how will I ever survive without your beautiful posts  

Bye Felicia

Reactions: Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 21, 2021)

The debates are heating up this week


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 21, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> The debates are heating up this week


Pineapple week.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bernkastel (Aug 21, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> The debates are heating up this week


Two flaming birds were duking it out...it's only logical

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Aug 21, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> It's a fact that the databook says he is admiral level. It's a fact that Kizaru implies he could have lost if he misstepped.


None of those are facts. The databook says Marco fought equally with admirals. That doesn't make him admiral level, and that's directly contradicted by the manga. Also that's the same databook that said that Vista fought equally with Mihawk. Go ahead, use the same process. Tell me that Vista is Mihawk level.

If the manga contradicts the databook, the databook is not canon. Which part of not touching Akainu was equally fighting him? Which part of fighting Akainu with 14 commanders by his side and not stopping him equally fighting him? Which part of Marco was wounded all over while all admirals except Akainu were unscathed makes him fighting them equally?

And what Kizaru said is him explaining that a single moment of concentration leads to defeat. He doesn't imply he could've lost at all. Or did Aokiji imply that Jozu could beat him too? Is Jozu admiral level too now? lol



Seraphoenix said:


> Your own biased interpretation means dogshit. Absolute dogshit. You already fail at the first sentence. Both Kizaru and Marco were making fun of each other, if you actually read the manga (Given your posts, I assume like others that you have a word of mouth knowledge of pre-skip). Kizaru attacked Marco and Marco said it hurt. Kizaru then calls him a liar. Marco then kicks Kizaru who says it hurts, to which Marco calls him a liar. They were bantering with each other.


LOL Marco said that directly after his fruit was explained. It was very clearly showed and explained why Kizaru's attack wasn't effective.
Marco bantered Kizaru because of his fruit regenerating him, Kizaru bantered Marco because his attack was weak

If you can't tell the difference that's on you.



Seraphoenix said:


> If Marco's kick wasn't serious, then Kizaru wouldn't have turned into light, and caused a huge explosion that damaged MF (Which Akainu was whining they had to protect) and potentially injured or killed marines.


Ah, fortunately I only have a word of mouth knowledge of pre-skip

Kizaru damaged jack shit. When he hits the ground there are marines less than a meter away from him unscathed and the ground is undamaged.



Seraphoenix said:


> At the end of the exchange Kizaru doesn't even attempt to go back to try and get past Marco.


Because Akainu attacks WB himself, why would Kizaru keep trying to attack him?
No, I'm sure he was afraid of Marco... The guy who offered to go after BM and Kaido together...

lol



Seraphoenix said:


> The rest of your post is again a very dumb take on what happened.


AKA I have no answer to any of what you said
It's ok buddy I'll take that concession



Seraphoenix said:


> Databook and Kizaru's own words> your dumbass


Manga > your dumbass

No damage to Kizaru, no damage to Aokiji, no damage to Akainu, no damage to BM, barely any damage to King and Queen

hE'S aDmIrAl LeVeL

Meanwhile actual admirals be out there extremely damaging WB, one shotting commanders, wrecking Sabo + co

He'S ThEiR EqUaL


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## Garcher (Aug 21, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> The debates are heating up this week


Why is there no Admirals vs Yonko thread yet

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Aug 21, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> None of those are facts. The databook says Marco fought equally with admirals. That doesn't make him admiral level, and that's directly contradicted by the manga. Also that's the same databook that said that Vista fought equally with Mihawk. Go ahead, use the same process. Tell me that Vista is Mihawk level.
> 
> If the manga contradicts the databook, the databook is not canon. Which part of not touching Akainu was equally fighting him? Which part of fighting Akainu with 14 commanders by his side and not stopping him equally fighting him? Which part of Marco was wounded all over while all admirals except Akainu were unscathed makes him fighting them equally?
> 
> ...


It says he confronted them as an equal. Cope. 

The databook doesn't contradict the manga. The databook contradicts your poverty interpretation of the manga. Let's be clear here. You struggle to understand basic events in a manga aimed at 13 year old boys. 

You said Garp one shot  Marco so bad he didn't attempt to go to Ace again. I can say Marco one shot Kizaru so bad he never attempted to go attack WB from the sky again. See how that works? When reading Marco vs Kizaru none of your one shot bullshit enters the picture. However when it's marines then it's time for the bias to set in with Garp vs Marco. You're a joke.

As for Marco not touching Akainu, is one instance of not being able to hit someone an indication that they can't? huh Sherlock Holmes? WB couldn't hit Aokiji or Kizaru, while he could hit Akainu. Marco hit Kizaru and Aokiji but didn't hit Akainu. Do you see how shit your argument is? Did it ever enter in your pea-sized brain that maybe people dodge? Even when Luffy got future sight, Katakuri could still dodge some attacks. 

As for Akainu fighting all 16 commanders, this again is you living in a word of mouth world. Akainu clashed once before half the navy was ordered to back him up. Even then he could only get an advantage over Curiel. If we use your logic, Sabo is admiral level+:


Marco alone was enough to completely stop bloodlusted Akainu from gaining any ground to attack Ace while he was giving a death speech. Though of course you don't know this since you didn't actually read MF. 

"*what Kizaru said is him explaining that a single moment of concentration leads to defeat. He doesn't imply he could've lost at all*."- Kizaru says *victory or defeat*. Meaning Marco could gain a victory if Kizaru misstepped. Is this a basic comprehension issue on your part? 

"*LOL Marco said that directly after his fruit was explained. It was very clearly showed and explained why Kizaru's attack wasn't effective.
Marco bantered Kizaru because of his fruit regenerating him, Kizaru bantered Marco because his attack was weak

If you can't tell the difference that's on you*."- The message of their interaction is that neither could do anything to the other in only one exchange. Which makes sense given Aokiji took 10 days just to get a bit of ear off Akainu and burn him a bit. They both use the exact same sentences to talk shit. I wonder what the message is???? tough one. 

"*Kizaru damaged jack shit. When he hits the ground there are marines less than a meter away from him unscathed and the ground is undamaged*." You are avoiding the fact that he had to turn into light to avoid damage. The marines were concerned about unnecessary damage to MF. We this with Akainu crying about WB destroying the place with every move. Also just lmao at your telling of the damage:


"*Because Akainu attacks WB himself, why would Kizaru keep trying to attack him?
No, I'm sure he was afraid of Marco... The guy who offered to go after BM and Kaido together*..."
Akainu only attacks later and not after WB intentionally, it was done in response to Jozu throwing at iceberg. If Kizaru thought he could get past Marco he would have continued to try, but he didn't. 

Yes Kizaru was actually going to go fight BM and Kaido 1v2 as opposed to trying to deter BM from going  Also Kizaru is very smart. He thought he could get past Rayleigh then failed. He thought he could go one shot WB but was then denied.

"*AKA I have no answer to any of what you said
It's ok buddy I'll take that concession*"- You say so many stupid things that to correct you would result in a very very long tldr. You have nothing besides biased takes while ignoring Kizaru's own words and the databook. All because you can't cope that admirals are just not on the level of Great Pirates. So you have to give these bad faith representations of the manga to still function.  Your 'Garp one shot so badly  Marco didn't do anything after" argument in contrast to your 'Marco did nothing  to Kizaru" is so telling about how you have no self awareness about how your interpretation of the manga is dependent on the parties involved, in the same scenarios.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shunsuiju (Aug 21, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> It says he confronted them as an equal. Cope.
> 
> The databook doesn't contradict the manga. The databook contradicts your poverty interpretation of the manga. Let's be clear here. You struggle to understand basic events in a manga aimed at 13 year old boys.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Grinningfox (Aug 21, 2021)

These last few pages have been gold


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