# Ganondorf vs. Sephiroth



## Pyre's Plight (Jun 29, 2009)

Since Ganon's had too many different ways of fighting, he'll just have all of his powers and abilities spanning across the Zelda games.

Scenario 1: Ganondorf vs. FF7 Sephiroth
Scenario 2: Ganondorf vs. AC Sephiroth
Scenario 3: Ganondorf vs. KH Sephiroth

Obviously CIS/PIS is off and bloodlust is on. Please no "Only Link can defeat Ganon" statements because Link hasn't really beaten Ganon since the first game. Every other fight against him has been badly handicapped in Link's favor where Link has people backing him up(including Zelda herself). Plus, Ganondorf isn't even being serious most of the time he fights Link(PIS) now nor has he ever thought much of the hero.

So yeah, who wins this?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 29, 2009)

You forgot about Twilight Princess outside of fighting against him via horseback. Link trashed that bitch.


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## NemeBro (Jun 29, 2009)

Link had MASSIVE help in TP.

He had Midna's help fighting his beast form, then Midna utilising the full power of the Fused Shadows attempted to defeat Ganon, with Ganon defeating and crushing the Fused Shadows, then had Zelda on horseback pegging him with Light Arrows, only after all this did Link fight Ganondorf himself directly.

Link nearly always has some form of aid to defeat Ganondorf. Hell, in Windwaker he had the backing of the full fucking Triforce that destined Ganondorf to lose, along with help from Zelda with Light Arrows. This was against a Ganondorf without the Triforce of Power.

Ganon wins this thread btw. The only advantage Sephiroth has is speed, which is nullified by Ganon's other powers. Soulfuck via the Twilight Ream is a nice one.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jun 29, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> You forgot about Twilight Princess outside of fighting against him via horseback. Link trashed that bitch.



If you cast your fishing rod, Ganondorf spends his time looking at it like some ADD kid while you get a free hit in. Not to mention the battle with him was almost over.

Then again, I stopped taking that fight seriously when I realized he was only hitting me for 1/2 a heart of damage. 

The demon thief/king of evil. Weaker than a darknut. What the hell.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 29, 2009)

He didn't exactly have massive help, outside of Midna throwing Ganondorf onto the ground and Zelda firing arrows while on Link's horse. That and his ability to become intangible, phase through attacks, and taking out a Midna with the power of the Fused Shadow, as you've said above, outside of being able to posess bodies, depending on whether or not they need to unconscious


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## Stroev (Jun 29, 2009)

Where are those Sephiroth wankers from that other thread?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 29, 2009)

Last time I saw a serious Ganondorf was during Ocarina of Time, when he had transformed


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## NemeBro (Jun 29, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> He didn't exactly have massive help, outside of Midna throwing Ganondorf onto the ground and Zelda firing arrows while on Link's horse. That and his ability to become intangible, phase through attacks, and taking out a Midna with the power of the Fused Shadow, as you've said above, outside of being able to posess bodies, depending on whether or not they need to unconscious



Midna was able to stop Ganondorf's rush(which was ghey IMO, dude crushed the Fused Shadows in the palm of his hand...But in his physically more powerful form gets stopped by Midna without them?) and Zelda was firing Light Arrows, which weaken him.

Really though, the fight with Ganon always involves massive PIS/CIS and faggotry.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 29, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> Midna was able to stop Ganondorf's rush(which was ghey IMO, dude crushed the Fused Shadows in the palm of his hand...But in his physically more powerful form gets stopped by Midna without them?) and Zelda was firing Light Arrows, which weaken him.
> 
> Really though, the fight with Ganon always involves massive PIS/CIS and faggotry.


 
I agree, besides the first fight in Ganon's castle, and the duel at the end of TP. Funny thing about him having help during the battle is that it did basically nothing to him since the final battle is when we see the best of Ganondorf, outside of the battle in Wind Waker with help from Zelda


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## Pyre's Plight (Jun 30, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Last time I saw a serious Ganondorf was during Ocarina of Time, when he had transformed



I'm doing a 3-heart run of the game now and he kills me in 1 hit. o_O 

But yeah. In Windwaker, when he got fed up with Zelda's arrows, he ran up to her, put the sword away, and then knocked her out. That part always had me wondering. His dreams truly were doomed to end.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 30, 2009)

Sephiroth drops Meteor on Ganondorf's head.


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## Ulti (Jun 30, 2009)

Holy shit, Ganon stomps


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## Raigen (Jun 30, 2009)

Ganondorf: Hahaha! You are doomed to fail!
Sephiroth: Then how is it that you get your ass handed to you more times than me?
Ganondorf: Hahaha!....eh...wha?
Sephiroth: Seriously. Try to understand. I'm prettier than you, I'm stronger than you, I'm faster than you, my appearances have been more appealing to fans, and for a while I was even a 'good guy' in Crisis Core. Quite frankly...I'm far more badass than you are.
Ganondorf: Ghr...gah...w-w-why y-you...little....fffffffffff
Sephiroth: I think he sprung a leak.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 30, 2009)

Pyre's Plight said:


> I'm doing a 3-heart run of the game now and he kills me in 1 hit. o_O
> 
> But yeah. In Windwaker, when he got fed up with Zelda's arrows, he ran up to her, put the sword away, and then knocked her out. That part always had me wondering. His dreams truly were doomed to end.


 




skiboydoggy said:


> Sephiroth drops Meteor on Ganondorf's head.


 
I'll give it a year. 



Raigen said:


> Ganondorf: Hahaha! You are doomed to fail!
> Sephiroth: Then how is it that you get your ass handed to you more times than me?
> Ganondorf: Hahaha!....eh...wha?
> Sephiroth: Seriously. Try to understand. I'm prettier than you, I'm stronger than you, I'm faster than you, my appearances have been more appealing to fans, and for a while I was even a 'good guy' in Crisis Core. Quite frankly...I'm far more badass than you are.
> ...


 
Mmk?


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## Raigen (Jun 30, 2009)

Simply put-


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## RWB (Jun 30, 2009)

Well, assuming Sephiroth can actually hurt Ganondorf, which he can, Ganondorf's feats do not put him as immune to Sephiroth's attacks, despite all the wank.

Ganon can only win this fight on the No Limits fallacy about his defensive capabilities.

Otherwise, Sephiroth cuts him into pieces before he can blink. Lol at peak human speed vs bullet timer.

Seeing all the Zeldawanking on this site makes me sad to be Zelda fan.


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## Raigen (Jun 30, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIddPLaFfoo[/YOUTUBE]

Welcome...to the Jenova Project.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 30, 2009)

RWB said:


> Well, assuming Sephiroth can actually hurt Ganondorf, which he can, Ganondorf's feats do not put him as immune to Sephiroth's attacks, despite all the wank.
> 
> Ganon can only win this fight on the No Limits fallacy about his defensive capabilities.
> 
> ...


 
What wank are you talking about?


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## The last Dalek (Jun 30, 2009)

I dont know much about Gannon but it sounds like base Sephiroth gets raped (or are you talking about his other forms to) Annyway would Safer Sephiroth do anny better.


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## RWB (Jun 30, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> What wank are you talking about?



"Link can beat Sephiroth. Even without prep!"

No he can't, he gets killed on the spot.

That's the last thread I can remember, but there's been more shit like that one.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jun 30, 2009)

RWB said:


> "Link can beat Sephiroth. Even without prep!"
> 
> No he can't, he gets killed on the spot.
> 
> That's the last thread I can remember, but there's been more shit like that one.


 
Oh, that thread 

I lulled throughout the entire thing.


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## RWB (Jun 30, 2009)

I too. But not in a good way.


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## Densoro (Jun 30, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> Midna was able to stop Ganondorf's rush



To be fair, Link needed damn strong legs for that. Zelda doesn't subscribe to the power = weight trope, so if wolf Link's legs weren't like uber, he'd've gone flying back.[/nitpick]

Anyway, what happens if Ganondorf teleports into Sephy's body like he did with Zelda's and makes him stab himself?


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## Raigen (Jun 30, 2009)

Ganon wouldn't be able to do that. Sephy pulled himself back from the Life Stream which is the essence and consciousness of the World and every living thing that has died throughout the worlds history. Ganon simply doesn't have the mental strength to make Sephy do anything. Plus, Sephiroth is much too fast. Ganondorf will be in fragments before he has time to blink. If Sephy really wants to he can just summon Bahamut Zero and let Ganon deal with that while he goes to entertain the fangirls.


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## Densoro (Jun 30, 2009)

Uh...he would be in fragments, yeah. Because that's how his teleportation works. He breaks apart and then you get possessed.


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## Raigen (Jun 30, 2009)

Sephy would obliterate the fragments with magic. He does that. Hand gesture turn the sky dark with a Black Life Stream.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jun 30, 2009)

It's usually assumed that minions and summons aren't in these battles. 

And lol @ Link beating Sephy.


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## Densoro (Jun 30, 2009)

Hey, know what, it woulda worked if they'd let me have free reign of Link's actions and gameplay mechanics. So there XD
Anyway, near as I can tell, Ganondorf's particles are intangible. Being that they went through Zelda's skin and all without leaving any physical evidence.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Jun 30, 2009)

But it's a No Limits Fallacy, isn't it?

We don't even know if he can posses someone who is conscious. Since all he's shown was Zelda, who was unconscious.

And Referee.

Don't forget he also went straight through Midna to get to Zelda.


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## NemeBro (Jul 1, 2009)

...Sephiroth is going to blast away Ganon's intangible Twilight form with magic?

That's hilarious.

Seriously, soul rape, end of thread.

As for Sephiroth being stronger than Ganondorf, yeah no. Link in his various incarnations has performed better strength feats than Sephiroth could dream of, such as his tossing of the granite in OoT. Ganondorf is physically stronger than all Links but TP Link, who is able to physically match him. 

Ganondorf is slower, yeah...But that does not mean much considering Ganondorf does not have to be tangible. 

Also, even Zant could spam teleport, had power to warp reality, could enhance his physical size, etc., Ganondorf gave Zant all his powers by bestowing upon him a fraction of his own.

Ganondorf has frozen over entire cities, destroyed islands, and even when near death sent his fortress tumbling.

Ganon rapes.


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## skiboydoggy (Jul 1, 2009)

Yes, Sephiroth is going to blast Ganondorf with magic. His magic is strong enough to summon Meteor, stop Holy, and rape AVALANCHE at the same time. You know, eight different characters who are magically adept in their own right. He can cast two planetary spells at the same time and still have enough left over to clear the entire end-game boss fight sequence.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jul 1, 2009)

He could become invisible and intangible in Link to the Past just by existing in a dark area. As for possesing Zelda, her soul wasn't in her body at the time.

Housing himself in Zant shows that he could probably possess the conscious. But he was willing.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> As for Sephiroth being stronger than Ganondorf, yeah no. Link in his various incarnations has performed better strength feats than Sephiroth could dream of, such as his tossing of the granite in OoT. Ganondorf is physically stronger than all Links but TP Link, who is able to physically match him.


 
It wouldn't exactly be feats for Link since he actually has equipment to help him move said objects, like the Goron Ring, Silver/Gold Gauntlets, etc. 



Dark-Jaxx said:


> Ganondorf has frozen over entire cities, destroyed islands, and even when near death sent his fortress tumbling.
> 
> Ganon rapes.


 
Never seen him freeze over cities, unless there's something from the GBA games that I haven't seen. Destroying islands, no credible proof that he had destroyed the island that was hiding Jabun, other than a possible theory, or that his minions had gone to the island looking for the beast. 



Pyre's Plight said:


> He could become invisible and intangible in Link to the Past just by existing in a dark area. As for possesing Zelda, her soul wasn't in her body at the time.
> 
> Housing himself in Zant shows that he could probably possess the conscious. But he was willing.


 
Possibly, those with strong wills are a different factor. 



skiboydoggy said:


> Yes, Sephiroth is going to blast Ganondorf with magic. His magic is strong enough to summon Meteor, stop Holy, and rape AVALANCHE at the same time. You know, eight different characters who are magically adept in their own right. He can cast two planetary spells at the same time and still have enough left over to clear the entire end-game boss fight sequence.


 
Meteor, how long does that take to even hit?


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## Stroev (Jul 1, 2009)

By "cities", he means Zora's Domain.

Though how long it took we will never know(whether 1 day or the full 7 years, etc).


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2009)

Yes, in Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time, not likely.


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## Stroev (Jul 1, 2009)

Unless you're not replying to me, Zora's Domain was frozen over in OoT. *?*


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## Pintsize (Jul 1, 2009)

Not that I'm saying that Ganon would win, but all of you saying that Sephiroth will win by stabbing are just silly.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

You don't know about Sephy, do you? He cuts buildings and gargantuan cannons like I cut butter.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ZaSipHuO4[/YOUTUBE]


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## Densoro (Jul 1, 2009)

And Ganondorf tanked a castle exploding. Happily. ^^;


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## Pintsize (Jul 1, 2009)

Even if that was something beyond what Ganon has faced before, it wouldn't matter.

A clean impalement will always do the same amount of damage, it's not like blunt damage that can just increase exponentially. So you've stuck a sword through his innards, so what.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

GD will be ripped in half by a cut from Sephiroth. And I don't see GD being too happy with having his skull pierced. Certainly didn't enjoy Link smacking him in the head back in OoT. As for strength, Sephy flicked a colossal section of the Shinra building as it was falling over his head with a sweep of his sword. Btw, Link is not all that strong. Ganon has no chance here and never did.

Besides, I'd love to see GD's reaction when Sephy pulls out Bahamut Fury.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8VwaEv3z1M[/YOUTUBE]


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## Pintsize (Jul 1, 2009)

That must be the most weak ass friggin laser beam ever, as the city was still there after it fired.

Unless you'd like to argue that the city is super durable.

And, while I don't know enough to say if that was Sephiroth's best strength feat, you're going to need to do better than that to beat Link. He's lifted up boulders bigger than houses before, and held back a Gannondorf that was charging through multiple feet of concrete without it even slowing him down.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

You're going by game mechanics. Have yet to see Link do any such thing while not magically powered up. Like in Majora's Mask. And Ganon bashing through walls is weak ass shit. Do you understand that brute strength means nothing the guys like Sephiroth? What does picking up boulders and smashing through walls have to do with anything here against a guy who can cleave through skyscraper sized objects like they're nothing? Besides, Sephy killed the Midgar Serpent and impaled the sob on a tree.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jul 1, 2009)

I'll just point out now that Ganon had no problem slicing up the chunks of debris left from his castle's towers in OoT. The same castle that he caused to collapse by the way. Unless you want to write that off as game mechanics as well.

If Sephy was going to kill him, he definitely isn't going to do it by simply stabbing his vital(???) organs.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

GD did that in his dragon'ish form, which was defeated rather easily. I actually have the Manga too and frankly it wasn't that hard for Link to beat him. And really, none of these guys can even hope to contend with Sephiroth in speed. Do you even understand how fast you'd have to be cutting something to set it on fire and/or cleave through it and leave the metal red hot? Both Cloud and Sephiroth were doing this in Advent Children.

Your argument is GD is tough because he's strong. Doesn't mean shit. Besides, you're forgetting that Ganon has a major physical weakness that's easily exploited; the stupid Gem on his forehead. Hit that and Ganondorf is screwed. Sephy will stab that thing and kill'im instantly.


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## Pintsize (Jul 1, 2009)

> You're going by game mechanics.



Hardly sounds like game mechanics to me, as it doesn't change the gameplay any to still be able to walk around a city than some ruins. 



> Have yet to see Link do any such thing while not magically powered up.



He was never magically powered up in Twilight Princess.



> Do you understand that brute strength means nothing the guys like Sephiroth?



More than it does to intangibles like Ganon? 



> What does picking up boulders and smashing through walls have to do with anything here against a guy who can cleave through skyscraper sized objects like they're nothing?



Well hell, Ganon's tanked having castles completely obliterated right on top of him. And besides, Ganon could have taken out the skyscraper by tearing through its base.



> And really, none of these guys can even hope to contend with Sephiroth in speed. Do you even understand how fast you'd have to be cutting something to set it on fire and/or cleave through it and leave the metal red hot? Both Cloud and Sephiroth were doing this in Advent Children.



Sounds more like magic than speed to me. 

Can you prove that Sephiroth can even hurt intangibles?


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

Ganon's not intangible. And Cloud doesn't use magic in his sword or energy unless he's using a special attack. You should really try and pay attention and watch the clips. Sephiroth can spam energy beams from his sword if he wants which will rip Ganondorf to pieces. Sephiroth also can't be destroyed as he exists as part of the Life Stream. He'll return again and again and again. He also formed his sword from *nothing* and stopped Cloud's blade with nothing more than the space where his sword was to form.

On top of everything, Sephy does have magic if he needs it and Magic seems to work quite well on Ganondorf. So does kicking the stupid Crystal in his head. It's sad to see someone arguing for him when it's so obvious he fails. He can't even touch Sephy. He flies, he phases through walls, he projects illusions and hell even controls the severed body parts of his alien mother from across the world. He projected a barrier across an area the size of a city.

He kills monsters and dragons with no effort and the best that SOLDIER had to offer weren't even good enough for a warm up. Link would never have a chance against him without the Fierce Deity Mask. Most times it took Link, a sword and some arrows to take out Ganondorf. With Sephy you need an entire team of superhumans with magic. You forget, you need to take out Bizzaro Sephiroth before you can even face Safer Sephiroth who is akin to a God.

And remember, this would just be FF7 Sephiroth.


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## Pintsize (Jul 1, 2009)

> Ganon's not intangible.



Right.



> And Cloud doesn't use magic in his sword or energy unless he's using a special attack.



Well, in AC, the only time anything close to "metal on fire" came from special attacks, and anything else he just cut. 




> Sephiroth also can't be destroyed as he exists as part of the Life Stream. He'll return again and again and again.



Sounds like some other villain.



> He also formed his sword from nothing and stopped Cloud's blade with nothing more than the space where his sword was to form.



So, he can stop a man jumping at him (assuming you mean the feat from AC)? 

He never demonstrated such phantom blocking powers again, even when it would be most fortunate to do so.



> On top of everything, Sephy does have magic if he needs it and Magic seems to work quite well on Ganondorf.



Divine magic works well on Gannondorf, everything else is either mostly or completely ineffective. That is something pretty firmly established in continuity. 



> So does kicking the stupid Crystal in his head.



More like stabbing the crystal hurts him. Of course, stabbing Sephiroth through the head would hurt too.



> He flies, he phases through walls, he projects illusions and hell even controls the severed body parts of his alien mother from across the world. He projected a barrier across an area the size of a city.



Gannon has flown, phased through walls, created copies of himself, and in some games, singlehandedly spawned entire armies through magic might, some of which, I might add, also share his characteristic intangibility. 

And barriers the size of a city? Gannon has sent an entire _country_ to the twilight world.



> Link would never have a chance against him without the Fierce Deity Mask. Most times it took Link, a sword and some arrows to take out Ganondorf.



That's pretty funny, I thought Cloud's buster sword took out Sephiroth. I must have been thinking of the wrong character. 



> With Sephy you need an entire team of superhumans with magic.



Yeah, I mean, it's not like Link isn't blessed by the gods with superhuman powers of his own or anything.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

Link isn't really. He's like "The chosen one" of sorts, but he always has something to magically amp him. The masks, arrows, armor, boots, the Master Sword, the shield, etc etc. Canonically, Cloud never used any other sword throughout FF7 aside from the Buster Sword originally owned by Zack. That thing weighs so much that two Shinra Soldiers couldn't even pull it from the ground, and Zack lifted it effortlessly.


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## Densoro (Jul 1, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Ganon's not intangible. And Cloud doesn't use magic in his sword or energy unless he's using a special attack. You should really try and pay attention and watch the clips.



Ganon can turn intangible on a whim, though. Also, where is it said that there's no way in hell Cloud would use a special attack to cut through falling building chunks? What makes you so sure that was a normal attack?



> So does kicking the stupid Crystal in his head.



Well, technically stabbing it with a magical sword enchanted specifically to kill him, and even then all it did was stun him for a few hundred years; call it a KO if you must.
but hay tomaytoh tomahtoh amiritegaiz?



> He kills monsters and dragons with no effort and the best that SOLDIER had to offer weren't even good enough for a warm up. Link would never have a chance against him without the Fierce Deity Mask. Most times it took Link, a sword and some arrows to take out Ganondorf. With Sephy you need an entire team of superhumans with magic. You forget, you need to take out Bizzaro Sephiroth before you can even face Safer Sephiroth who is akin to a God.



Alright, so let's downplay a litany of deity-enchanted items into 'lol just a soard,' but lighting a wooden village on fire (which is easy BTW) with magic is at the top of the charts. It takes a sword enchanted by three Goddesses (and eventually two other Agnostic deity-forces) to take Ganondorf down, and even then, he doesn't have to respawn like Sephy does. He just has to _wake up_.

EDIT: @above TP Link can toss a Goron that's about ten feet tall and wide without any magical buffs. That enough of a strength feat?


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## Pintsize (Jul 1, 2009)

> Link isn't really.



Man, real humans can do what Link did in TP? That's awesome, I'll just start lifting boulders and shit now.



> He's like "The chosen one" of sorts, but he always has something to magically amp him.



You know, discounting the fact that Cloud was also 'amped' by matiria, let me posit the question: in the end, when everyone's dead, does it make a bit of fucking difference whether or not he was 'magically amped'? I'm sure if you told all of Link's dead enemies that it didn't really count, they'd believe you, and wake up.



> Canonically, Cloud never used any other sword throughout FF7 aside from the Buster Sword originally owned by Zack. That thing weighs so much that two Shinra Soldiers couldn't even pull it from the ground, and Zack lifted it effortlessly.



Man, just like Link can lift boulders effortlessly, or you know, cause minor earthquakes.

Oh wait no, that's way more fucking impressive.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

You forget that Cloudl also possesses the same power Sephiroth does through the Jenova Cells. He's like a Psuedo-Ancient who can use the powers of the World itself. Technically, Sephiroth's body died 10-11yrs back in FF7 history when he fell(lept) into the Life Stream within the Nibel Mt Mako Reactor. The times you see Sephy in FF7 up until you find his body (or half of it) within a Mako Crystal in the Northern Crater were all just projections of himself that he had created. They were strong enough to physically interact with people and even toss a Materia at Cloud in the Shinra Mansion.

He mentally controlled the severed body parts of Jenova and even made himself appear as Tifa to get Barret to give the Black Materia to Cloud. And in the end, if you recall, it took Cloud's entire crew to take on Bizzaro and Safer Sephiroth. And that includes Vincent in Chaos Form. In the end they were all being TK thrashed by Sephiroth and the only thing that saved them was Aeris' spirit interacting with the Holy materia.


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## Pintsize (Jul 1, 2009)

> You forget that Cloudl also possesses the same power Sephiroth does through the Jenova Cells. He's like a Psuedo-Ancient who can use the powers of the World itself.



Man, you know what that sounds a lot like? 

"Magic amping"



> Technically, Sephiroth's body died 10-11yrs back in FF7 history when he fell(lept) into the Life Stream within the Nibel Mt Mako Reactor.



Man, Ganon has never died.

What a wimp. 



> The times you see Sephy in FF7 up until you find his body (or half of it) within a Mako Crystal in the Northern Crater were all just projections of himself that he had created. They were strong enough to physically interact with people and even toss a Materia at Cloud in the Shinra Mansion.



That sounds again like some other villain we know.



> He mentally controlled the severed body parts of Jenova and even made himself appear as Tifa to get Barret to give the Black Materia to Cloud.



Hardly outlandish considering what Ganon has done.



> And in the end, if you recall, it took Cloud's entire crew to take on Bizzaro and Safer Sephiroth.



Point Link.



> In the end they were all being TK thrashed by Sephiroth and the only thing that saved them was Aeris' spirit interacting with the Holy materia.



Holy magic? Man, that sounds a lot like light arrows and "magic amping". 

Actually, it sounds a lot more unquantifiable. Light arrows are usually able to be battle tested by the player.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

It's not Holy Magic. It's the name of the Materia Itself which acts as the ultimate force in the World. It was designed to counter Meteor which is a sentient object that is called throughout the universe that collides with planets to destroy them. Sephiroth was absorbing the Life Stream itself, which is the life force and essence of the Entire Planet, the very thing that allows people to use Magic through Materia, which is the condensed form of Mako energy, aka the Life Stream.

Quite frankly what Sephy did beats out pretty much every Zelda Game.


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## Densoro (Jul 1, 2009)

Semantics. Materia is what enables specific magic. So yeah, Light magic whose source is the force that created the world...like Light Arrows =D


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## Pintsize (Jul 1, 2009)

> In the end they were all being TK thrashed by Sephiroth and the only thing that saved them was Aeris' spirit interacting with the Holy materia.



Still pretty damn unquantifiable.



> It was designed to counter Meteor which is a sentient object that is called throughout the universe that collides with planets to destroy them. Sephiroth was absorbing the Life Stream itself, which is the life force and essence of the Entire Planet, the very thing that allows people to use Magic through Materia, which is the condensed form of Mako energy, aka the Life Stream.



And still got stabbed to death with Cloud's sword in AC.



> Quite frankly what Sephy did beats out pretty much every Zelda Game.



Not at all, no.


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

Pintsize said:


> Still pretty damn unquantifiable.
> 
> And still got stabbed to death with Cloud's sword in AC.
> 
> Not at all, no.



TK'ing and tearing at a bunch of Superhumans whose physical abilities flat out outstrip Link's (they ran up effing skyscrapers) is pretty quantifiable. Ganon clearly can't do that and Sephy was just screwing around before transforming into Bizzaro Sephiroth. And the Sephiroth in Advent Children is more like his Human Avatar. Kadaj took in Jenova's head to 'resurrect' Sephiroth. And there was no stabbing to death, it was Cloud's effing Omnislash version 4 (or 6) which was a speedblitz attack with power-enhanced weapons. Most of the fight was Sephiroth kicking Cloud's ass.


----------



## Densoro (Jul 1, 2009)

The only stat they really have that outstrips Link's is speed. As you said yourself, with them running up skyscrapers and all. That just takes speed, and that's even assuming they paid attention to the laws of physics for that. Which is doubtful, because I seem to remember hearing that Nomura flat-out told them not to bother with physics.


----------



## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

Physics worked fine on the normal humans. Course a point-blank shot to the head only scratched Cloud. Sephiroth, Cloud and Vincent are like the three strongest people on the planet. Sephiroth was such a threat that the Weapons awoke on their own to combat him, and instead seemed to go out of control. If Sephy is sportin the same power as he did when absorbing the Life Stream and Holy, then Ganondorf won't even touch him even if he's standing still. It took a cross-world shot from the Sister Ray to drop his barrier.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2009)

Ganondorf has never died, he can't become intangible? What?


----------



## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia2HOVeo7q0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Densoro (Jul 1, 2009)

Yes, I have the DVD. What was that supposed to prove? XD I mean seriously, not even trying to be an ass, I just don't see what that was aimed at.


----------



## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

Just plain awesomeness really. So far no one has even shown what GD can do aside from become a big monster and smash things. Gods/goddesses in Zelda-verse are pretty damn weak. And it took those fugly witch sisters to bring Ganon back after he was beaten. 

What was Ganon's goal? "I want to rule the world in darkness!"

Sephiroth's goal? "I want to use the entire world as my vessel and sail through the cosmos until I find a new world where I shall bring about a shining future."

And more awesomeness here

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd9-N9MpJZw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Endless Mike (Jul 1, 2009)

Pyre's Plight said:


> Please no "Only Link can defeat Ganon" statements



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YjQqLlSZq4[/YOUTUBE]

Sorry, had to


----------



## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

It is written...no key wielding bitch is beating Sephiroth.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynuFQaXz7cY[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Densoro (Jul 1, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Just plain awesomeness really. So far no one has even shown what GD can do aside from become a big monster and smash things. Gods/goddesses in Zelda-verse are pretty damn weak. And it took those fugly witch sisters to bring Ganon back after he was beaten.



Really? I'd forgotten that, I thought it was the Triforce of Power that did it.



> What was Ganon's goal? "I want to rule the world in darkness!"



As I remember it, Ganondorf's goal started out as expanding Gerudo territory into the less harsh climate of Hyrule, because his people were being killed by sandstorms and dehydration. Then after he was denied several times, _then_ he just said "Fuck it, I'll rule the world in darkness!"
You need to stop oversimplifying Zelda e____e XD


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2009)

Or leaving out his other abilities besides only bringing up turning into a giant pig


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## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

Personally I find the Zelda mangas more appealing. More complete story without all the side-crap and game mechanics. They even remove the chickens pwning Link. I'd rather be pecked to death by a Chocobo in FF7 than get scratched to death by Chickens.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 1, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Personally I find the Zelda mangas more appealing. More complete story without all the side-crap and game mechanics. They even remove the chickens pwning Link. I'd rather be pecked to death by a Chocobo in FF7 than get scratched to death by Chickens.



But having Link get mauled by Chickens is like one of the best parts of the games.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 1, 2009)

Nah, the fishing is the best part of the game.


----------



## Raigen (Jul 1, 2009)

You know, Chocobo mounts are just plain better than a fricken horse like Epona. Get the right Chocobo and you can run across mountains or the fricken ocean or both! And you don't have to feed them effing carrots to make'em run faster!


----------



## Densoro (Jul 1, 2009)

And if you know what you're doing, you can make Epona run about 500 feet off the hills of Hyrule Field.

...How did we get to comparing mounts? Aren't we supposed to talk about Ganondorf kicking Sephiroth's ass? XD Which by the way, Ganondorf can also summon ghostly Darknut dudes riding horses. He just shoots a beam and there they are. That might make the fight more interesting here =3


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Jul 1, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YjQqLlSZq4[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Sorry, had to



thank you so much 
Beast Gannon solos.


----------



## Pyre's Plight (Jul 1, 2009)

It's actually been tested before in OoT. Not using the master sword in the battle against Ganon would last forever. He simply wouldn't collapse.


----------



## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> It wouldn't exactly be feats for Link since he actually has equipment to help him move said objects, like the Goron Ring, Silver/Gold Gauntlets, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Never seen him freeze over cities, unless there's something from the GBA games that I haven't seen. Destroying islands, no credible proof that he had destroyed the island that was hiding Jabun, other than a possible theory, or that his minions had gone to the island looking for the beast.



1. And Link never removes said equipment. TP Link also possessed no magical items, simply possessed immense physical strength granted by the Triforce of Courage(heavily implied he has it). 

2. I probably should not have used the term city, but he froze over Zora's Domain. As for Jabun...The island was in pieces. It was destroyed.


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## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> Yes, Sephiroth is going to blast Ganondorf with magic. His magic is strong enough to summon Meteor, stop Holy, and rape AVALANCHE at the same time. You know, eight different characters who are magically adept in their own right. He can cast two planetary spells at the same time and still have enough left over to clear the entire end-game boss fight sequence.



He does not have the Black Materia, he cannot perform the feat without it. As for stopping Holy, unquantifiable feat is unquantifiable. Holy is not a physical force, no telling what would need to happen to stop it. As for raping AVALANCHE...So? He was levitating them through the air, Zant did the same to Link and Midna, while raping the most powerful Light Spirit without any effort.


----------



## Ulti (Jul 2, 2009)

Pyre's Plight said:


> Since Ganon's had too many different ways of fighting, he'll just have all of his powers and abilities spanning across the Zelda games.
> 
> Scenario 1: Ganondorf vs. FF7 Sephiroth
> Scenario 2: Ganondorf vs. AC Sephiroth
> ...



Only Cloud can defeat Sephiroth 

Wasn't that bullshit called once in Final Fantasy?


----------



## Raigen (Jul 2, 2009)

Senior Partner said:


> Only Cloud can defeat Sephiroth
> 
> Wasn't that bullshit called once in Final Fantasy?



Nope. Angeal, Zack, Genesis, and others have all tried and failed to beat Sephiroth. Only Cloud has ever managed such a feat. Everyone else gets stomped into the ground.



> He does not have the Black Materia, he cannot perform the feat without it. As for stopping Holy, unquantifiable feat is unquantifiable. Holy is not a physical force, no telling what would need to happen to stop it. As for raping AVALANCHE...So? He was levitating them through the air, Zant did the same to Link and Midna, while raping the most powerful Light Spirit without any effort.



Holy is a massive magical force created by the Planet itself as its last line of defense and was already activated by Aeris' prayer. Sephiroth was suppressing Holy's power and preventing it from interfering with Meteor's fall. Also, who says Sephy doesn't have the Black Materia? He had it in FF7 up to the end of the game. Cloud gave it to him and Sephy used it. I don't see why he wouldn't have it here.



> 1. And Link never removes said equipment. TP Link also possessed no magical items, simply possessed immense physical strength granted by the Triforce of Courage(heavily implied he has it).



That still means he was being magically amped. You just said so yourself. A piece of the Triforce was giving him that strength. And in other Games Link has always had something amping him or protecting him. A shield that deflects magic, an unbreakable magic sword, a red suit that makes him fire-proof, etc etc.


> It's actually been tested before in OoT. Not using the master sword in the battle against Ganon would last forever. He simply wouldn't collapse.



That's still game mechanics. Despite that I have yet to see any sword in the Zelda series do what Cloud and Sephy have done. Not to mention Rosso and others who appeared in Dirge of Cerberus.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> 1. And Link never removes said equipment. TP Link also possessed no magical items, simply possessed immense physical strength granted by the Triforce of Courage(heavily implied he has it).


 
Outside of the Master Sword and after it had gotten its upgrade to the Light Sword while in the Twilght Realm, and the Magic Armor that runs on rupees, that's it, outside of the ToC. 



Dark-Jaxx said:


> 2. I probably should not have used the term city, but he froze over Zora's Domain. As for Jabun...The island was in pieces. It was destroyed.


 
I agree with this.


----------



## Densoro (Jul 2, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> 1. And Link never removes said equipment. TP Link also possessed no magical items, simply possessed immense physical strength granted by the Triforce of Courage(heavily implied he has it).



I know that he has it, but is that really the source of his physical strength? I'd always figured he was just a Charles Atlas superpowered farmboy. Lift enough goats and eventually you can move on to gorons *shrug*

Anyway, Raigen, really. What difference does it make if he was magically amped? If he's always using said amping, then that's just the same as it being a core feat. It's how he'll always be.
Besides, as Pintsize said, 1) Cloud is no less amped than Link was, and 2) what does it matter? If the opponent is dead, then how that happened doesn't really factor in.


----------



## Raigen (Jul 2, 2009)

It still took this to knock out Sephy's barrier over the Northern Crater.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17oJeTCGEic[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Knight (Jul 2, 2009)

sadly he doesn't seem to have this move now in ACC.


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## Raigen (Jul 2, 2009)

Sephy in ACC was just an Avatar that took over Kadaj's body FF7 Sephy was drawing power from the entire world.


----------



## Knight (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Sephy in ACC was just an Avatar that took over Kadaj's body FF7 Sephy was drawing power from the entire world.



you mean one fifth of the power.


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## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Holy is a massive magical force created by the Planet itself as its last line of defense and was already activated by Aeris' prayer. Sephiroth was suppressing Holy's power and preventing it from interfering with Meteor's fall. Also, who says Sephy doesn't have the Black Materia? He had it in FF7 up to the end of the game. Cloud gave it to him and Sephy used it. I don't see why he wouldn't have it here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. And again, Holy is not a physical force. Unquantifiable feat is unquantifiable. As for Black Materia, it takes a ridiculously long amount of time to even summon Meteor. Time he does not have before the soul rape. As for why he would not have it here, AC Sephiroth is the most current Sephiroth, he did not have it.

2. What the fuck is your point? He may have been magically amped, but he was ALWAYS magically amped. The Triforce of Courage gave him the strength, yeah, but he does not suddenly lose it when fighting Ganondorf. Same for the other Links with their magical trinkets. 

3. The Master Sword is literally Ganondorf's weakness, it was made to destroy him. Same with the Light Arrows, which disintegrate evil beings. But guess what? Ganondorf tanks those shots easily, even when he does not possess the Triforce of Power like in Wind Waker. Also, I have never seen Sephiroth disintegrate someone with a punch. Something Ganondorf did.


----------



## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Outside of the Master Sword and after it had gotten its upgrade to the Light Sword while in the Twilght Realm, and the Magic Armor that runs on rupees, that's it, outside of the ToC.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this.



1. Well yeah, but he still possesses consistently immense physical strength in the game.

2. You better.


----------



## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> It still took this to knock out Sephy's barrier over the Northern Crater.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17oJeTCGEic[/YOUTUBE]



Midna utilising less than the full power of the Fused Shadows easily smashed the barrier Ganon(Or Zant, cannot remember) placed over the city, and Ganon treated her like a bug.

Also, he has never used that barrier in personal combat.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2009)

Ganondorf has disintegrated someone with a punch? Must have been from the GB games, because I haven't seen this in the console games, IIRC 

Lifting boulders, giant pillers, etc. Impressive.


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## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Ganondorf has disintegrated someone with a punch? Must have been from the GB games, because I haven't seen this in the console games, IIRC
> 
> Lifting boulders, giant pillers, etc. Impressive.



The sage from Twilight Princess. Was disintegrated on impact.

The granite OoT Link lifted was calced on another forum I go to at 1,000+ tons.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2009)

Ah, that. Forgot about that cutscene 

1,000? 

You mean this?


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## Ulti (Jul 2, 2009)

Jesus christ, thats immense.


----------



## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Ah, that. Forgot about that cutscene
> 
> 1,000?
> 
> You mean this?



Yeah, ScreamPaste's calcs.


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## Ulti (Jul 2, 2009)

Wasn't he using telekinesis to hold up the castle in TP or something?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2009)

Don't you mean Ocarina of Time?


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## Raigen (Jul 2, 2009)

Sephy's barrier was created around a focal point of Mako Energy (Life Stream). You can't compare Midna breaking a barrier of similar size to Sephy's being disabled by a giant cannon with 9 Mako Reactors pumping out an output of 120% capacity, and that shot went across thousands of miles. Also, Meteor needs to be summoned from someplace else in the *Universe*. The summoning was instant, it just took Meteor a while to get there.

And don't gimme crap about time. Even using Majora's Mask to make the Moon fall it took a fricken month for it to happen, and the moon in Zelda isn't all that big! And it was right *there!* So much for granting any wish if it takes effing forever to grant. Also, you should check the matchup. Each match is using a different Sephiroth. FF7, then ACC/LO and Kingdom Hearts. So you can't use the "most current" argument with different versions of him are being used.

Most people still forget that just an Avatar of Sephy was enough to rape the Midgar Zolom and impale it's ugly hide on a tree.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG0Y5Gi_2-4[/YOUTUBE]


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2009)

A month? It took three days, derp. Skull Kid wasn't even using his power to pull it down until the third day 

And Moon in MM =/= Actual Moon


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## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Sephy's barrier was created around a focal point of Mako Energy (Life Stream). You can't compare Midna breaking a barrier of similar size to Sephy's being disabled by a giant cannon with 9 Mako Reactors pumping out an output of 120% capacity, and that shot went across thousands of miles. Also, Meteor needs to be summoned from someplace else in the *Universe*. The summoning was instant, it just took Meteor a while to get there.
> 
> And don't gimme crap about time. Even using Majora's Mask to make the Moon fall it took a fricken month for it to happen, and the moon in Zelda isn't all that big! And it was right *there!* So much for granting any wish if it takes effing forever to grant. Also, you should check the matchup. Each match is using a different Sephiroth. FF7, then ACC/LO and Kingdom Hearts. So you can't use the "most current" argument with different versions of him are being used.
> 
> ...



1. Sure I can, can you tell me the busting capacity of said cannon? It just took Meteor a while to get there...Yeah, don't care. The fight is still over when one dies, and Sephiroth will be dead before Meteor gets there.

2. What the fuck are you bringing up Majora for? Majora<<<<<Ganondorf. Oh, and the Moon only took three days to fall. As for granting any wish...What are you fucking talking about? Are you referring to the Triforce? Which Majora did not use to make the moon fall? Forgot that every Sephiroth was in this fight I admit. 

3. ...Ganondorf creates creatures that>Midgar Zolom lol.


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## Raigen (Jul 2, 2009)

Not from what I saw dude. He made the threat a month in advance and it took that long to work. Plus, it took 4 giants to hold the thing up and they were maybe the size of skyscrapers. You can't say that the moon in MM is the same size as Earth's Moon. Link also noted that it was getting closer and closer all the time and he only had 3 days until it fell. It started falling almost a month before.


----------



## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Senior Partner said:


> Wasn't he using telekinesis to hold up the castle in TP or something?



I do not know what you are referring to.


----------



## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Not from what I saw dude. He made the threat a month in advance and it took that long to work. Plus, it took 4 giants to hold the thing up and they were maybe the size of skyscrapers. You can't say that the moon in MM is the same size as Earth's Moon. Link also noted that it was getting closer and closer all the time and he only had 3 days until it fell. It started falling almost a month before.



Made the threat a month in advance? The game's timeline doesn't even span a month. 

As for the Four Giants...They are stronger than Sephiroth. He could not have held back that moon.

He didn't say it was the size of Earth's moon, he said the opposite, moron.

It was gradually falling, only on the third day at night did Majora actively make it fall.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Not from what I saw dude. He made the threat a month in advance and it took that long to work. Plus, it took 4 giants to hold the thing up and they were maybe the size of skyscrapers. You can't say that the moon in MM is the same size as Earth's Moon. Link also noted that it was getting closer and closer all the time and he only had 3 days until it fell. It started falling almost a month before.


 
Where are you getting this month bullshit from? Seriously. 

Three Giants trying to hold it up didn't even stop the moon from coming down. Only Link actually using the Fierce Deity's Mask to sodomize Majora stopped the moon. 

And I never said that the moon in Majora's Mask is the same size as our moon, derp.


----------



## Raigen (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't see Link, Ganon or anyone else holding up the moon either so your thing about strength is completely moot. Plus none of you have given a reasonable argument to suggest that Ganondorf could beat Sephiroth. Every version of Sephy so far has proven to be far faster and better than Ganon. Regardless of how strong you claim Ganon to be, it doesn't mean anything if Sephy hacks him to pieces the moment the fight starts. Or in the case of FF7 Sephiroth, Sephy just turns into Bizzaro Sephiroth and blows the effing boar away with Stigma.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2009)

Good job on ignoring our posts, and not backing up your sudden claim of Skull Kid threatening to ram the moon into Clock Town a month ago :mj


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## Raigen (Jul 2, 2009)

It's in the Manga. Your posts are mostly crap anyway, so it's easy to ignore them. A month ago is when Skull Kid first arrived in Clock Town and turned Kafei into a kid. At the same time he also threatened the drop the moon on Clock Town on the day of the Festival, which was to begin a month from then, which was the same day that Kafei and Anju were to be wedded. The moon began to gradually draw closer from then on.

And so nice of you guys to continuously ignore the speed argument and the fact that Ganon isn't durable enough to withstand Sephy's sword. Cloud tore through Sin Bahamut and he hadn't even lost the Geo-Stigma yet, and I don't see Ganondorf being much tougher than that.


----------



## Densoro (Jul 2, 2009)

Okay, so why does Ganondorf tanking attacks that were specifically created to kill him not count as an epic durability feat? And again, what the hell's Sephy gonna do when Ganondorf's splitting off into little twilight particles and teleporting everywhere, including into Sephy's body to possess him?


----------



## Ulti (Jul 2, 2009)

I'm not sure, I havn't played Zelda for years. I recall him using TK to levitate a castle or something like that.

Is the manga even canon?


----------



## Densoro (Jul 2, 2009)

He levitated it in Ocarina. Twilight Princess, he just sealed it off in a gigantic crystal of glowing Darkness/Twilight magic.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> *It's in the Manga.* Your posts are mostly crap anyway, so it's easy to ignore them. A month ago is when Skull Kid first arrived in Clock Town and turned Kafei into a kid. At the same time he also threatened the drop the moon on Clock Town on the day of the Festival, which was to begin a month from then, which was the same day that Kafei and Anju were to be wedded. The moon began to gradually draw closer from then on.


 
And this is where your post fails. Good job at briging up non canon material. 



Raigen said:


> And so nice of you guys to continuously ignore the speed argument and the fact that Ganon isn't durable enough to withstand Sephy's sword. Cloud tore through Sin Bahamut and he hadn't even lost the Geo-Stigma yet, and I don't see Ganondorf being much tougher than that.


 
Because Ganondorf hasn't been stabbed in his chest and survived building level destruction twice shown in both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, right? 

And Ganondorf hasn't shown the ability to become intangible and transform, right?



Senior Partner said:


> I'm not sure, I havn't played Zelda for years. I recall him using TK to levitate a castle or something like that.
> 
> Is the manga even canon?


 
No, the manga isn't canon material.


----------



## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> I don't see Link, Ganon or anyone else holding up the moon either so your thing about strength is completely moot. Plus none of you have given a reasonable argument to suggest that Ganondorf could beat Sephiroth. Every version of Sephy so far has proven to be far faster and better than Ganon. Regardless of how strong you claim Ganon to be, it doesn't mean anything if Sephy hacks him to pieces the moment the fight starts. Or in the case of FF7 Sephiroth, Sephy just turns into Bizzaro Sephiroth and blows the effing boar away with Stigma.



First of all, why are you bringing up shit that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread? Are you mentally impaired or something?

Faster? I agree. Better? Haha no. Speed means NOTHING if his hits cannot touch Ganondorf due to intangibility. 

Hacks him to pieces? Light Arrows>>>>>>>Sephiroth's sword, which has never completely disintegrated anything, the arrows have, and Ganondorf even without the Triforce of Power tanks those easily. 

Bizzaro Sephiroth? Dude, that gives up the only advantage Sephiroth ever had against Ganon, speed.


----------



## NemeBro (Jul 2, 2009)

Raigen said:


> It's in the Manga. Your posts are mostly crap anyway, so it's easy to ignore them. A month ago is when Skull Kid first arrived in Clock Town and turned Kafei into a kid. At the same time he also threatened the drop the moon on Clock Town on the day of the Festival, which was to begin a month from then, which was the same day that Kafei and Anju were to be wedded. The moon began to gradually draw closer from then on.
> 
> And so nice of you guys to continuously ignore the speed argument and the fact that Ganon isn't durable enough to withstand Sephy's sword. Cloud tore through Sin Bahamut and he hadn't even lost the Geo-Stigma yet, and I don't see Ganondorf being much tougher than that.



Manga is not canon retard.

Oh? So you admit to copping out on our posts? Failure.

A month ago is when Skull Kid threatened to bring the moon down? BULL. SHIT. Manga=/=canon.

Speed argument? Negated by intangibility. Isn't durable enough? Light Arrows can kill building sized Big Octos in a single attack, disintegrating them...Ganondorf tanks them without the ToP. Also, in TP, he tanked the explosion of his castle while inside it, without a scratch.


----------



## Pyre's Plight (Jul 3, 2009)

I'm not even sure why Majora's Mask was even brought up. As far as I know, the only thing accepted as canon in the manga is Majora's backstory and I could be wrong on that.

Also, when the mask revealed itself the giants were no longer even able to hold the moon up. If the moon really took a month to fall, then Tatl and Tael are idiots.


----------



## Ulti (Jul 3, 2009)

Referee said:


> He levitated it in Ocarina. Twilight Princess, he just sealed it off in a gigantic crystal of glowing Darkness/Twilight magic.



Thanks man. 

Did some research, manga is fan made so LAWL.


----------



## RWB (Jul 3, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> Speed argument? Negated by intangibility.



Have to be able to turn intangible, and without prep, good luck.



Dark-Jaxx said:


> Isn't durable enough? Light Arrows can kill building sized Big Octos in a single attack, disintegrating them...Ganondorf tanks them without the ToP.



Without the ToP, he can be killed by a child with a wooden sword, no strength boost needed. Since the Oracle Games are, you know, canon.



Dark-Jaxx said:


> Also, in TP, he tanked the explosion of his castle while inside it, without a scratch.



Cough*I believe someone mentioned intangibility.*Cough


----------



## Ulti (Jul 3, 2009)

Whenever Link fights Ganon it involves heavy PIS and CIS or some huge plot device.


----------



## Itachi2000 (Jul 3, 2009)

*Sephiroth wins
no further explanation needed*
/thread


----------



## Ulti (Jul 3, 2009)

An explanation is needed, all evidence so far points to Ganon stomping the shit out of him.


----------



## Terryc250 (Jul 3, 2009)

The Mako Cannon that brought down Sephiroth's barrier was stated to be powerful enough to level and destroy Midgar itself.  Midgar being by far the largest metro city so big that it can clearly be seen from outer space.  Sephiroth barrier took it, protecting everything inside.

Holy was stated by Bugenhagon that it is a force powerful enough destroy everything on the planet, meteor, WEAPONs, everything, including themselves.  Sephiroth stopped that power with his willpower/TK.

Sephiroth has shown the power to be intangeable as well, and with the recent ACC that release it showed Kadaj misting through a door.


----------



## Ulti (Jul 3, 2009)

Fuck it... Ganon cracks a yo momma joke and Sephiroth monolouges... :ho


----------



## Pyre's Plight (Jul 3, 2009)

The oracle games contained a mindless, bumbling Ganon. Twinrova screwed up the sacrifice.


----------



## The last Dalek (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Physics worked fine on the normal humans. Course a point-blank shot to the head only scratched Cloud. *Sephiroth, Cloud and Vincent are like the three strongest people on the planet.* Sephiroth was such a threat that the Weapons awoke on their own to combat him, and instead seemed to go out of control. If Sephy is sportin the same power as he did when absorbing the Life Stream and Holy, then Ganondorf won't even touch him even if he's standing still. It took a cross-world shot from the Sister Ray to drop his barrier.



Yuffie is the luckiest person on the planet and luck=plot power.
Didnt the wepons go out of controll because they coukdnt find Sephiroth so they just went for the next threat to the planet. Annyway no ones answeard my qeustion if Safer Sephiroth does anny better.


----------



## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

The last Dalek said:


> Yuffie is the luckiest person on the planet and luck=plot power.
> Didnt the wepons go out of controll because they coukdnt find Sephiroth so they just went for the next threat to the planet. Annyway no ones answeard my qeustion if Safer Sephiroth does anny better.



the whole fight with safer sephiroth turned out to be a mental duel rather than an actual fight. so basically he was still trying to mind rape the party.


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## The last Dalek (Jul 3, 2009)

Fair enough then. So that explains why his solar system busting attack is non cannon.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

The last Dalek said:


> Fair enough then. So that explains why his solar system busting attack is non cannon.



not just that but it never happen in the original Japanese.
but like you said it is just a attempt of mind rape and a gameplay move.


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## SHM (Jul 3, 2009)

Phanteros said:


> the whole fight with safer sephiroth turned out to be a mental duel rather than an actual fight. so basically he was still trying to mind rape the party.



Bullshit.

Safer Sephiroth was his original body(the one frozen in a Mako Crystal) after finishing his regeneration, merging with Jenova, and absorbing Lifestream.
Safer Sephiroth was very real.
It's the duel that comes *after* Safer(the one between Cloud alone, and a shirtless Sephiroth) that is a mental battle.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

SHM said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Safer Sephiroth was his original body(the one frozen in a Mako Crystal) after finishing his regeneration, merging with Jenova, and absorbing Lifestream.
> Safer Sephiroth was very real.
> It's the duel that comes *after* Safer(the one between Cloud alone, and a shirtless Sephiroth) that is a mental battle.



doesn't matter the point is that most of his moves after that was mental.
the whole team was in the life stream the whole time.


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## Hellspawn28 (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen is just acting like a fanboy as always. Well Sephiroth does have speed but Gandondorf destroy a large Island in OOT if I stand correct. Sephiroth Metor feats are just gameplay mechanics and has never shown any feats past city busting. Gandondorf should able to win this.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> Raigen is just acting like a fanboy as always. Well Sephiroth does have speed but Gandondorf destroy a large Island in OOT if I stand correct. Sephiroth Metor feats are just gameplay mechanics and has never shown any feats past city busting. Gandondorf should able to win this.



basically what everyone said.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Meteor is capable of destroying the entire planet. It has in the past and it took Holy and the Life Stream with the wish of the Ancients (Cetra) to destroy Meteor. That's a level of power you just don't screw with. The only time Meteor was a game mechanic was in Ehrgeiz where FF7 characters were made playable and one of Sephy's attacks was "Meteor". The difference was he just hits you with 3 meteors, and not Meteor itself.


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## Starrk (Jul 3, 2009)

Ganon turns into his pig form; Seph dies from laughter.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

If Ganon turns into a boar, Sephy will run'im through with his masamune and roast him on it.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> If Ganon turns into a boar, Sephy will run'im through with his masamune and roast him on it.



sadly which won't happen since the pig can bust through dimensions.
that said. Sephiroth gets eaten can gets shit out of later.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Stark said:


> Ganon turns into his pig form; Seph dies from laughter.



why would he laugh when he is getting a new a hole?


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Meteor is capable of destroying the entire planet. It has in the past and it took Holy and the Life Stream with the wish of the Ancients (Cetra) to destroy Meteor. That's a level of power you just don't screw with. The only time Meteor was a game mechanic was in Ehrgeiz where FF7 characters were made playable and one of Sephy's attacks was "Meteor". The difference was he just hits you with 3 meteors, and not Meteor itself.



gannon isn't going to wait a month for a meteor to kill him.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

*Meteor* took 2 weeks to hit the FF7 world. The week after Cloud disappeared in the Life Stream, Meteor was already quite visible over the planet after it had traveled from elsewhere in the Universe. And not even a massive nuke could really damage it (and that was without the Gigantic Materia).

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTCx0x5ma5Q[/YOUTUBE]


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> *Meteor* took 2 weeks to hit the FF7 world. The week after Cloud disappeared in the Life Stream, Meteor was already quite visible over the planet after it had traveled from elsewhere in the Universe. And not even a massive nuke could really damage it (and that was without the Gigantic Materia).
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTCx0x5ma5Q[/YOUTUBE]



that said he isn't going to wait a whole 2 weeks for a meteor to hit him.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Well I can tell ya right now. He ain't effin stopping that thing. Sephy can dodge him forever if he wants and just wait for Ganon to get smushed. Then again I still don't see what keeps Sephy from decapitating him at the start.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> *Well I can tell ya right now. He ain't effin stopping that thing. Sephy can dodge him forever if he wants and just wait for Ganon to get smushed*. Then again I still don't see what keeps Sephy from decapitating him at the start.



For 2 weeks!? You could have atleast gone with KH Seph and used the meteor spell he had there. But anyway I'm neutral here.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Well I can tell ya right now. He ain't effin stopping that thing. Sephy can dodge him forever if he wants and just wait for Ganon to get smushed. Then again I still don't see what keeps Sephy from decapitating him at the start.



gannon can teleport too you know and plus he survive a castle coming done on him.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Ganon doesn't even have a thought process that's fast enough to register the fact that he just got raped as his head thumps to the floor from a Sephiroth speedblitz.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Ganon doesn't even have a thought process that's fast enough to register the fact that he just got raped as his head thumps to the floor from a Sephiroth speedblitz.



sephiroth isn't that fast. plus intangibility will prevent that.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

I don't see where you're pulling all this out of. Did you even see the clips? Sephy can make dozens of slashes in a second. Guys like Cloud and Zack can block/deflect/dodge multiple gunfire with ease and they're using a sword so damn heavy that two people can't lift it. Ganon has never shown the level of speed that would be required to activate any power that'd enable him to avoid instantaneous rape by Sephiroth. Plus Sephy's not-yet-formed blade stopped Cloud's sword. And as people have said Ganon's supposed intangibility doesn't protect him from magic, which Sephy has a ton of.

Additionally, Sephiroth's sword is also not normal as he is the only person in the world capable of fully wielding it. You can get it as an item in FF7, but you can never use it. And when Tifa tried using it in the flashback she failed epically and he stomped her ass.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> I don't see where you're pulling all this out of. Did you even see the clips? Sephy can make dozens of slashes in a second. Guys like Cloud and Zack can block/deflect/dodge multiple gunfire with ease and they're using a sword so damn heavy that two people can't lift it. Ganon has never shown the level of speed that would be required to activate any power that'd enable him to avoid instantaneous rape by Sephiroth. Plus Sephy's not-yet-formed blade stopped Cloud's sword. And as people have said Ganon's supposed intangibility doesn't protect him from magic, which Sephy has a ton of.
> 
> Additionally, Sephiroth's sword is also not normal as he is the only person in the world capable of fully wielding it. You can get it as an item in FF7, but you can never use it. And when Tifa tried using it in the flashback she failed epically and he stomped her ass.



gannon is physically stronger than two fucking people. ever heard of sealing sephiroth in a another dimension? plus gannon had boulders hurled at his head and he only flinched.  and amount of sword slashes ain't a problem to someone who survive being stabbed in the head or can exist in another time line.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

You're really not getting it, are you? I've come to the conclusion that your skull is thicker than Ganon's. Do I need to show it again? Do I need to show Sephiroth cutting the Junon Cannon to ribbons or cleaving through massive chunks of a skyscraper like they're nothing to show that Ganon's strength is completely meaningless?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jul 3, 2009)

isn't gannon somewhat immortal?


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> You're really not getting it, are you? I've come to the conclusion that your skull is thicker than Ganon's. Do I need to show it again? Do I need to show Sephiroth cutting the Junon Cannon to ribbons or cleaving through massive chunks of a skyscraper like they're nothing to show that Ganon's strength is completely meaningless?



I came to an conclusion that your a troll.  and cleaving through them isn't as impressive when done with a blunt weapon like Gannon's  fist. or merging two dimensions together  or sealing someone in one.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Smashing something is not impressive. Cleaving completely through it with profound ease is impressive. You're overwanking Ganon, like most seem to do. You can't even comprehend the fact that Ganon's strength is not in question, mainly because his strength is a moot isue. He's not fast enough to touch Sephiroth nor fast enough to evade dozens of slashes that're more than capable of cleaving his body into sections.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2009)

Phanteros said:


> sadly which won't happen since the pig can bust through dimensions.
> that said. Sephiroth gets eaten can gets shit out of later.


 
Since when can Ganondorf bust through dimensions?


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Smashing something is not impressive. Cleaving completely through it with profound ease is impressive. You're overwanking Ganon, like most seem to do. You can't even comprehend the fact that Ganon's strength is not in question, mainly because his strength is a moot isue. He's not fast enough to touch Sephiroth nor fast enough to evade dozens of slashes that're more than capable of cleaving his body into sections.



once again you proven yourself to be a troll. whats stopping Ganondorf from making a five hundred of himselves and jumping on Sephiroth, wanker?  you can't comprened the fact that that ganon can just send sephiroth in another dimension. or the fact that he already survived arrows that can incinerate people.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Since when can Ganondorf bust through dimensions?



nevermind i found he can't.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Apparently since this guy says so, so it must be true! asm:

He's not gonna get it. The match was already decided on the 1st page. As shown, even 'intangible' Ganon gets hit with magic. Sephy still only needs to swing his sword to take'im down. Recall, Sephy can create blades of energy with his sword by just swinging it and he showed this when beating down Genesis.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ZaSipHuO4[/YOUTUBE]


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2009)

How can you hit someone when they're intangible


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Darth Nihilus said:


> How can you hit someone when they're intangible



Danny Phantom has been hit when intangible, so has even the Martian Manhunter. Being intangible doesn't make you impervious to all forms of attack and that's been proven on many occasions. Sometimes all it takes is a specific energy type or wavelength and you're screwed, and not all intangibility is the same. For some it's like a dimensional shift, for others it's a matter of decreasing density or altering a molecular/atomic state.

Ganon's supposed intangibility is magical and it seems magic/energy can still hit him in that state. Sephy has more than enough magic and special attacks (Limit Breaks) to take him out.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Danny Phantom has been hit when intangible, so has even the Martian Manhunter. Being intangible doesn't make you impervious to all forms of attack and that's been proven on many occasions. Sometimes all it takes is a specific energy type or wavelength and you're screwed, and not all intangibility is the same. For some it's like a dimensional shift, for others it's a matter of decreasing density or altering a molecular/atomic state.
> 
> Ganon's supposed intangibility is magical and it seems magic/energy can still hit him in that state. Sephy has more than enough magic and special attacks (Limit Breaks) to take him out.


Link has a sword that was made to hurt ganondorf.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Danny Phantom has been hit when intangible, so has even the Martian Manhunter. Being intangible doesn't make you impervious to all forms of attack and that's been proven on many occasions. Sometimes all it takes is a specific energy type or wavelength and you're screwed, and not all intangibility is the same. For some it's like a dimensional shift, for others it's a matter of decreasing density or altering a molecular/atomic state.
> 
> Ganon's supposed intangibility is magical and it seems magic/energy can still hit him in that state. Sephy has more than enough magic and special attacks (Limit Breaks) to take him out.


 
Since when is the Twilight magical? Not to mention that we haven't actually seen him being attacked and actually damaged while intangible.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Sephiroth has a sword that *Only* he can use and it was easily stopping and knocking back magically empowered swords and cleaving through highly durable materials with no effort at all.

As a side joke, when Sephy kills you with his sword, you don't come back to life (ie Aeris), considering that the FF-verses all have some kinda magic spells, items/objects/etc that can 'revive' players.


> Since when is the Twilight magical? Not to mention that we haven't actually seen him being attacked and actually damaged while intangible.



Quite frankly I've never seen Ganon intangible. Nonetheless, you go back and play FF7. Get to the boat scene as you leave Junon Harbor while chasing Sephiroth and in the Cargo hold Sephiroth phases through the floor.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Sephiroth has a sword that *Only* he can use and it was easily stopping and knocking back magically empowered swords and cleaving through highly durable materials with no effort at all.
> 
> As a side joke, when Sephy kills you with his sword, you don't come back to life (ie Aeris), considering that the FF-verses all have some kinda magic spells, items/objects/etc that can 'revive' players.
> 
> ...



no limit fallacy, because master sword had tried that and failed. 
can it stop a goddess power over some one?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 3, 2009)

So you didn't watch the cutscene while playing Twilight Princess inside of the throne room in Hyrule Castle where he had become intangible and then had taken over Zelda's body?


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Look at FF7. Their Summons are Gods. Odin, Shiva, Hades.



> So you didn't watch the cutscene while playing Twilight Princess inside of the throne room in Hyrule Castle where he had become intangible and then had taken over Zelda's body?



I haven't had the time to even play it. However given its popularity, you can probably find the scene you're alluding to on Youtube.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Sephiroth has a sword that *Only* he can use and it was easily stopping and knocking back magically empowered swords and cleaving through highly durable materials with no effort at all.
> 
> As a side joke, when Sephy kills you with his sword, you don't come back to life (ie Aeris), considering that the FF-verses all have some kinda magic spells, items/objects/etc that can 'revive' players.
> 
> ...



reviving someone through the means of Phoenix down is gameplay anyway since cloud never showned to used phoenix down  on her anyway.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

Cause Sephy killed her and then before he could do anything they had to fight off Jenova Death (I think that was the one).

Adding on, I just watched the clip where Ganon supposedly went intangible. And I've gotta say...what a load of shit. He did not become intangible. He turn himself into dark essence and possessed Zelda's unconscious body. That's all he did. And he apparently sucked at controlling her if he got beat around by having energy balls knocked back in his face. All he did was control Zelda and fly around like a moron. After being hit a couple times he was forced out by Midna and never re-possessed Zelda again.

After which he reformed (much like Buu did after Vegitto spat his ugly ass out) and transformed into Dark Beast Ganon. Everything he does is either through a piece of the Tri-Force or magic and it's all rather pitiful.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 3, 2009)

Phanteros said:


> reviving someone through the means of Phoenix down is gameplay anyway since cloud never showned to used phoenix down  on her anyway.



Phoenix down revives KO not death. When a party member dies in gameplay they are merely KO'd. Outside Gameplay thats plain useless. Cloud did'nt use a PD on Zack because it would have been useless(or he did'nt have any?). Using a PD on Aerith would'nt have done anything because she was killed off canonically and is now a part of the life stream.

Why did'nt the party use a PD on Leo in FF VI? Because it would'nt work and neither would their magic most likely.


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## Raigen (Jul 3, 2009)

As it turns out, Zelda was soulless, which is what allowed Ganon to possess her to begin with and it was after Link with help from Epona (the damn horse!) beat DB Ganon that Zelda's spirit returned to her body, thus preventing Ganon from trying anymore possessing crap. This completely demolishes any kind of intangibility argument. Not to mention the dumbest part of all is, I'm watching these and Link never seems to close his damn mouth!


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## Densoro (Jul 3, 2009)

One thing; Shinra grunts are seen reacting to SOLDIERS. Not in any meaningful way, but they can kinda go "oshit" and flinch. Ganondorf, being a much braver sort, would take that flinch time and use it for something more important. Like, Iunno...teleporting?

Also, may I call BS on your argument that Sephy can hurt intangible Ganondorf? Just because other intangible people have been hit doesn't mean Ganondorf's intangibility has the same weakness...or that Sephiroth has the same ability to break it.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 3, 2009)

Referee said:


> One thing; Shinra grunts are seen reacting to SOLDIERS. Not in any meaningful way, but they can kinda go "oshit" and flinch.



And human rogues have reacted to the Flash. Meaningless point, as Sephiroth isn't even a regular SOLDIER.


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## Knight (Jul 3, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Phoenix down revives KO not death. When a party member dies in gameplay they are merely KO'd. Outside Gameplay thats plain useless. Cloud did'nt use a PD on Zack because it would have been useless(or he did'nt have any?). Using a PD on Aerith would'nt have done anything because she was killed off canonically and is now a part of the life stream.
> 
> Why did'nt the party use a PD on Leo in FF VI? Because it would'nt work and neither would their magic most likely.



thanks for the correction


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## Densoro (Jul 3, 2009)

Charcan said:


> And human rogues have reacted to the Flash. Meaningless point, as Sephiroth isn't even a regular SOLDIER.



Human rogues can't turn intangible with a thought =P The most they can do, as stated above, is go "oshit" and flinch. Bad comparison e__e
Basically what I'm getting at is that Ganondorf would get at least a second to react before he gets cut. Rather than doing something useless like flinching, he'd teleport. He's got JUST enough time.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 3, 2009)

Referee said:


> Human rogues can't turn intangible with a thought =P The most they can do, as stated above, is go "oshit" and flinch. Bad comparison e__e



I'm talking about the capacity to react at all. A human rogue could turn intangible and summon the Spanish Inquisition with a thought and would still get knocked by Flash. 

Unless this guy has much better reaction feats than someone who can dance around gunfire, forget about it. Ganon could have durability to help him for all I care but don't talk about that grunt nonsense again.


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## skiboydoggy (Jul 3, 2009)

You know, I thought Raigen was generally rather bad at this whole thing, but he's been bringing up a rather convincing case overall. Sephiroth is necessarily faster with sufficient physical and magical might to take down Ganon, so there's really nothing stopping Sephiroth from winning this.

And Sephiroth is rather faster than Zack, so Shinra reacting to him doesn't mean they can react to Sephiroth. Not to mention when you attack Shinra HQ in FFVII, every random encounter you meet in composed of various types of SOLDIERs, making the case rather strong for all of those that reacted to Zack at all in the first place all being SOLDIERs.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jul 3, 2009)

I feel as though I should have made a Seph vs. Bowser thread. 


Ganon has been possesing people since LttP. Aghanim was his puppet...but never showed if he had his own conciousness. 

For reaction time, Ganon isn't terrible. He was dodging Zelda's light arrows in WW without even looking at her. The triforce of power wasn't even in his possesion at that time.

Also, he could become intangible in Lttp by simply being in a dark area. He teleported to move and was immune to the MS near the end of the fight.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jul 4, 2009)

DP because psp has a crappy text limit. Twilight Princess wasn't one of Ganondorf's greatest showings. Freezing over Zora's Domain and blocking light arrows with his cape can also be mentioned.

Unless of course, WW Link had awful reaction time and just let Ganon take the triforce of courage.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Charcan said:


> I'm talking about the capacity to react at all. A human rogue could turn intangible and summon the Spanish Inquisition with a thought and would still get knocked by Flash.
> 
> Unless this guy has much better reaction feats than someone who can dance around gunfire, forget about it. Ganon could have durability to help him for all I care but don't talk about that grunt nonsense again.



You're comparing two different levels of reaction. I admit, Ganondorf could probably not duck or sidestep or cartwheel around Sephiroth. But _think_? Yes, I believe he can. If Ganondorf gets to _think_ in reaction to Sephiroth's attacks, then he's good.

Mental reaction time and physical reaction time are much different. Mental reaction time doesn't amount to much for a pure Warrior build, but it means a lot for a casual mage. I can mentally react to my fencing instructor's attacks; if I had magic that I could trigger with my mind, I'd have time to trigger it in reaction to him. But I don't have the physical reaction time to parry him.

And even then, Ganondorf has the physical reaction speed to casually deflect arrows bare-handed. You try that, see what happens.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> You're comparing two different levels of reaction. I admit, Ganondorf could probably not duck or sidestep or cartwheel around Sephiroth. But _think_? Yes, I believe he can. If Ganondorf gets to _think_ in reaction to Sephiroth's attacks, then he's good.



Too big a difference in reactions.



> And even then, Ganondorf has the physical reaction speed to casually deflect arrows bare-handed. You try that, see what happens.



Crap to a regular bullet timer, even comic book peak humans inferior to Batman pull that one off.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Do said comics have a definition of peak-human that's not completely insane? Are these people actually within human capability, or is the author getting a little careless?
In any case, is there any evidence that the grunts who reacted to Zack were peak human? Because if mid-humans can react to Zack, then peak-or-superhumans should be able to close the gap between him and Sephy (with flinchtime, anyway).


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Do said comics have a definition of peak-human that's not completely insane? Are these people actually within human capability, or is the author getting a little careless?



Doesn't matter what anyone thinks about comic books and real life. Arrows are inferior to bullets, and Batman accordingly coughed up blood from a punch that he didn't even perceive, by a bullet timer.

Lol mid-humans and flinchtime.


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## Knight (Jul 4, 2009)

i concede.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Charcan said:


> Doesn't matter what anyone thinks about comic books and real life. Arrows are inferior to bullets, and Batman accordingly coughed up blood from a punch that he didn't even perceive, by a bullet timer.
> 
> Lol mid-humans and flinchtime.



Don't make fun of my three-second terms T__T

Arrows are inferior to bullets, yes, and physical reaction time is inferior to mental. All I'm trying for is Ganondorf to have the second he needs to start his teleportation spell. I really can't see why that's too much to ask. You keep bringing up physical feats of peak humans vs bullet timers, but they're all beside the point. MENTAL reaction, dude. Casting a spell MENTALLY. This has nothing to do with Batman, unless Batman took a level in Wizard when I wasn't looking.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Arrows are inferior to bullets, yes, and physical reaction time is inferior to mental.



Thing is, Batman didn't even mentally register that a punch had touched him until after the fact, and his mental reaction discipline is top notch out of all that training he has (he changed cups without any conscious decision once, without his host noticing it, avoiding poisoning).

Yet he is inferior to bullet timers, who are just physically superior to even comic book peak humans. Bullets are insanely fast after all.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Did he register that his opponent was fixing to attack him? In the least? Or did he go straight from casual conversation to gut-implosion?


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

He never noticed any attack despite having the opponent in front of him and being ready for anything.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Hm...I concede till I think of something better XD

Well, no reason Ganondorf has to teleport reactively. He could do it before Sephy decides to take a swing at him. Problem solved.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Well, no reason Ganondorf has to teleport reactively. He could do it before Sephy decides to take a swing at him. Problem solved.



Not reactively? Prove his teleportation works that way. Bloodlusted Sephiroth will take a swing at him right away because he's a swordsman to begin with, and through the initial distance and the fact his sword has big range and his attacks casually slash at a distance, his opponent would have to react to him.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

He didn't teleport reactively in TP. In the cutscene, he was just like "Hey, that sounds fun *zoom*" and in gameplay (for as much as you'll care about it XD) he had a certain point in his charge when he'd do it. Using it reactively was _my_ idea as part of a plan to use it like WW's Parry Attacks. Opponent comes in, you teleport to their flank while they're following through.

Now I see that's not gonna work, he could just ghost around firing Mounted Darknut Beams everywhere. Little magic balls with carry the force of several mounted knights, and when they hit, they actually turn into said knights who start chasing you around? Yes please.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

So if he's not proven as at least as fast as Sephiroth, which seems to be the consensus that he isn't, he won't be able to perform it as the fight begins, while Sephiroth also can teleport. Got it.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Doesn't take too long for him to pop in, shoot a beam, then pop back out. Two seconds, tops. And he can do it again and again and again. And was it ever specified which Sephy we're using? I was assuming AC/CC.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

He won't have the time unless he tanks Sephiroth, you already conceded on the speed part.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Sephiroth can attack all the way across the battlefield in two seconds when he has no way of predicting where his opponent will come from? =/


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

RWB said:


> Have to be able to turn intangible, and without prep, good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. What? So are you asserting he cannot render himself intangible? Even though he did in TP? Out of curiosity, are you an idiot?

2. And that was not Ganondorf in his full power, his resurrection was fucked up, as clearly stated.

3. I did not see him render himself intangible when the castle exploded, not that I can remember anyway. But then we still have him surviving while in a near-death state the destruction of his castle in OoT, and his fortress being destroyed by Valoo.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Sephiroth can attack all the way across the battlefield in two seconds when he has no way of predicting where his opponent will come from? =/



What are you talking about? Unless he's faster than Sephiroth (which no one here is saying he is, you conceded on it) and teleporting is the first move he would realistically think of doing, it wouldn't be an issue at all.


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

Okay, Sephiroth is physically faster than Ganon, we already know that.

But Sephiroth cannot attack and hit Ganon before he can think and become intangible.

And even if Sephiroth does hit Ganon...Ganondorf tanks Light Arrows, which>>>Sephiroth's sword. So even if he hits him, wow, good for him, he got a hit in, Ganon goes intangible.

After this...Soul rape. There is really no easier option. Zant was infecting entire regions with Twilight magic, which renders every individual in it into a bodiless soul. Sephiroth has no defense against this.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Again, where is it stated we're using KH Sephy here? And again again, Ganondorf started the fight with it in TP. So, uh, yeah, it's happening.
Also, what's up with the sweatdrop spam? Save it for people who aren't making sense, not just ones that you disagree with ^^ Works better that way.


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Again, where is it stated we're using KH Sephy here?



There are three fights, one with KH Seph, one with FFVII Seph, one with AC Seph.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Bah, it's been days since I looked at the OP XD Well KH Sephy hasn't reacted to bullets, so yay there.


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 4, 2009)

*waits for "Sora is teh FTL!"*


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> But Sephiroth cannot attack and hit Ganon before he can think and become intangible.



I disagree. The gap between peak human reactions and bullet-timers and above is not a small one.



> And even if Sephiroth does hit Ganon...Ganondorf tanks Light Arrows, which>>>Sephiroth's sword. So even if he hits him, wow, good for him, he got a hit in, Ganon goes intangible.



I admitted this could be the potential issue. It's just that the whole "don't have to prove speed, can activate this or that" reminds me too much of DBZtards with their instantaneous Goku avoiding any blitz. Not even precog-ers can avoid any and all blitzes unless their defenses are automatic.



Referee said:


> Again, where is it stated we're using KH Sephy here?



The OP has it included.


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 4, 2009)

Ganon isn't Human though so he must have superior reaction times.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Ganon isn't Human though so he must have superior reaction times.



I can buy that, but feats. Many of those goofy Star Wars muppets never showed much speed did they?


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

Charcan said:


> I disagree. The gap between peak human reactions and bullet-timers and above is not a small one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The average speed of thought I believe is 300 milliseconds, so doing some retard math you would be right. 

How far apart are the characters? If not listed, what is the OBD-standard for this? I don't know.

2. Phenomenol was a funny guy.

But if you want some Ganondorf speed feats, well he can effortlessly dodge or block Light Arrows when not facing them while he is mortal.

That is his best reflex feat I know of, and I am not sure on the speed of a Light Arrow. I highly doubt it is lightspeed lol, but they are fairly fast. Never seen any calcs on it though.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Charcan said:


> I admitted this could be the potential issue. It's just that the whole "don't have to prove speed, can activate this or that" reminds me too much of DBZtards with their instantaneous Goku avoiding any blitz. Not even precog-ers can avoid any and all blitzes unless their defenses are automatic.



Excuse me if I feel more than a little strawman'd =/ Phenom kept saying "INSTANT > LAITSPIID," all I'm saying is that the time it takes Sephiroth to think about slashing is as much time as Ganondorf needs to think about teleporting. Unless Sephiroth's neurons are suddenly massively FTL. See, unlike Phenom, I actually considered thought time. It just seems that Ganondorf has plenty of it for my purposes.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jul 4, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> The average speed of thought I believe is 300 milliseconds, so doing some retard math you would be right.



For fully-conscious decision-making? Superhumans are beyond regular standards as well, reason for their blitzes.



> How far apart are the characters? If not listed, what is the OBD-standard for this? I don't know.



20 paces.



> 2. Phenomenol was a funny guy.



Willpower>>>>reality warping.



> But if you want some Ganondorf speed feats, well he can effortlessly dodge or block Light Arrows when not facing them while he is mortal.
> 
> That is his best reflex feat I know of, and I am not sure on the speed of a Light Arrow. I highly doubt it is lightspeed lol, but they are fairly fast. Never seen any calcs on it though.



Are they regular arrows coated with magic?


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## Terryc250 (Jul 4, 2009)

Show Ganon instantly becoming intangeable upon 'thought'. 

Show Ganon sealing someone (other than his own creation that was originally from another dimension) in between dimensions.

In terms of speed feats and reaction time, Sephiroth has shown far superior ones.

Oh, and every Sephiroth can teleport, not just KH Sephiroth.


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## RWB (Jul 4, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> 1. What? So are you asserting he cannot render himself intangible? Even though he did in TP? Out of curiosity, are you an idiot?



...I said he needs prep because Sephiroth will cut him apart before he can react. The speed difference is just that big.




Dark-Jaxx said:


> 2. And that was not Ganondorf in his full power, his resurrection was fucked up, as clearly stated.




It was stated to be mindless, not weaker.  
Still it was easily more powerful than Twinrova, who should logically be at least close to Ganondorf(without ToP).

He wasn't in his right mind, but please provide proof of his power being less.
Oh, right. There is none.




Dark-Jaxx said:


> 3. I did not see him render himself intangible when the castle exploded, not that I can remember anyway. But then we still have him surviving while in a near-death state the destruction of his castle in OoT, and his fortress being destroyed by Valoo.



Valoo's fire breath have what feats? Valoo's feats could have him lose to a magikarp.

The tower feat is still valid, though.






Phanteros said:


> Link has a sword that was made to hurt ganondorf.



No he hasn't. The Master Sword existed long before Ganon and was already legendary by the time Ganon was born. It's just a magical sword(japanese: "magic-repelling sword"=sword of evil's bane).


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## Pyre's Plight (Jul 4, 2009)

> No he hasn't. The Master Sword existed long before Ganon and was already legendary by the time Ganon was born. It's just a magical sword(japanese: "magic-repelling sword"=sword of evil's bane).



While this is true, the sword was made with the intent of destroying evil. The sages in TP tried to take him out and failed. When the master sword wasn't at his prime in Windwaker, Ganon laughed it off. While the sword wasn't made to kill him, it was made with people like him in mind. 

And once again, in Link to the PAst, teleportation was his method of movement. The game also stated how he obtained the triforce in the dark world. Conveniently enough, when he was under the Aghanim persona, he sealed all the maidens, Zelda included, in the Dark World.

As for twilight Princess, I don't recall him ever sealing anyone. He did seem to have escaped from the twilight Realm despite the fact that the mirror was broken though.


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## Pintsize (Jul 4, 2009)

Clarification on light arrows... yes, they are arrows coated in magic, however they're so strong and quick as to be able to pierce through any number of enemies that Link can put between his crosshairs no matter the defense. 

This includes darknaut armor, which even boulder hurling Link can't put a dent in with the master sword.


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## Raigen (Jul 4, 2009)

About 2min in is where Ganon does the 'intangible' deal. And I can say for certain, that right there is not intangibility. It's transference. Ganon transferred himself into Zelda's soulless body and possessed her. In no way was that intangibility. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyazAQXIXes[/YOUTUBE]


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## skiboydoggy (Jul 4, 2009)

So Ganondorf is still noticeably slower, and physical ability and magical ability are similar if not leaning in Sephiroth's favour? Why has this gone on for so long? Why can't Sephiroth just fire bladebeams at Ganondorf from twenty paces and get it over with? Or telekinetically crush him like he did all the members of AVALANCHE while busy with Holy and Meteor?


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## Pintsize (Jul 4, 2009)

Zelda wasn't soulless, she was just unconscious. And I'm not sure how much willpower would factor into resistance against possession, because as a magic user, she clearly could have had some means of resisting being put to sleep in the first place. 

And how is that not intangibility? He passed right through her as squares of shadow.

I suppose you'll say that this isn't intangibility either.


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## Raigen (Jul 4, 2009)

Next part Zelda openly states that her heart was part of Midna's, if for a brief time. Which meant her soul/consciousness had been transferred and/or trapped inside Midna. Which still means that Zelda's body was nothing more than a soulless puppet. And what Midna did with Zelda and Link may have looked the same as what Ganon did, but it isn't. Midna Transferred/transported Link and Zelda out of the castle in order to save them. None of that was intangibility.


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## Pintsize (Jul 4, 2009)

> So Ganondorf is still noticeably slower, and physical ability and magical ability are similar if not leaning in Sephiroth's favour? Why has this gone on for so long? Why can't Sephiroth just fire bladebeams at Ganondorf from twenty paces and get it over with? Or telekinetically crush him like he did all the members of AVALANCHE while busy with Holy and Meteor?



I would say that magical ability decidedly leans in Ganon's favor, actually. Perhaps its just because he's been in more games, but the man has shown much more flexibility to create entirely new magics on the go than Sephiroth. For example:

He's traveled through dimensions on his own power

Imprisoned Zelda in rose diamond

Shown several modes of intangibility: hiding in shadows, becoming little squares of shadow himself, and made his entire body into a giant, flaming head

Over the course of the games, Ganon has shown the ability to shapeshift into many different forms

He's created many magical servants from absolutely no base material

Froze the Zora's domain, trapped the entire country of Hyrule in the Twilight Realm, which stripped the entire country of their souls

A servant who was granted all his power by Ganon managed to take Midna, a creature who under her own power was able to live comfortably in the shadow of others, and strip that from her, having her almost die of light exposure. That same servant managed to curse Link into living out the rest of his days as a wolf, something that was only broken by the power of the only weapon ever made with enough juice to temporarily harm Ganon

That same servant, who again was given all his powers by Ganon, was able to magically resurrect many things that were quite dead and not merely KO'd, and duplicate the areas in which you fought them instantly.

Ganon's magic is practically reality warping: anything he wants to do he just does. And it all has direct effect on the world of the game, not like some silly Bahamut destroying the moon cut scene that actually doesn't destroy the moon (because it wouldn't be there to destroy every time he does it if it did) or the city they're fighting in. And to this day, nothing has actually killed Ganondorf. They've just managed to put him down for a bit.


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## Pintsize (Jul 4, 2009)

> Next part Zelda openly states that her heart was part of Midna's, if for a brief time. Which meant her soul/consciousness had been transferred and/or trapped inside Midna.



Ah, forgot about that part. 



> And what Midna did with Zelda and Link may have looked the same as what Ganon did, but it isn't. Midna Transferred/transported Link and Zelda out of the castle in order to save them. None of that was intangibility.



You're right, it isn't the same. Midna was turning them into untouchable blocks of shadow, while Ganon was doing that to _himself_. 

Not to mention that he can always just turn himself into pure flame, yet another thing that is by its very nature untouchable.


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

RWB said:


> ...I said he needs prep because Sephiroth will cut him apart before he can react. The speed difference is just that big.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. He can get maybe one hit in. Which won't harm Ganondorf. Ganondorf tanks hits from Golden Gauntlet wearing Link and tanks Light Arrows. Both>>>Sephiroth in terms of force.

2. Well let's see.

As seen in Windwaker, anything but Light Arrows or the Master Sword when striking Ganon simply does not harm him. 

The Noble Sword(Which is not wooden) can do so in Oracles, although only with a spin attack.

Not everything has to be stated, it is obvious.

3. Feats? Well gee, there is him destroying a fortress with one breath of fire.


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## Raigen (Jul 4, 2009)

Again, none of that was intangibility. I've already disproven it. It wasn't even used in battle in any way. Also, Sephy has done a lot. From mind controlling dozens of failed clones to manipulating the severed body parts of an alien entity (Jenova), mind fucking Cloud, creating illusions, surviving the Life Stream (big feat when you consider that most die instantly from Mako poisoning upon coming into contact with it). He summoned Meteor and has numerous spells, not to mention that he can easily deflect and even cut down magic spells (like against Genesis' Flare magic).

He's shown flight, TK, super-human speed, strength and durability. Apparently impervious to fire, can control dark powers (he raised his hand and the sky was blocked out by black swirling clouds) and has even phased through walls (the floor on the Ship, and *that* is a form of intangibility). He also even teleported around the Shinra mansion while talking to Cloud.

Last note, if Ganon was such a 'reality warper' how is it that all of his attacks suck balls and he gets smacked in the face repeatedly by Link? The final fight in TP just involved Link evading Ganon's sword slashes and batting him in the chest with his sword.


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

Raigen said:


> About 2min in is where Ganon does the 'intangible' deal. And I can say for certain, that right there is not intangibility. It's transference. Ganon transferred himself into Zelda's soulless body and possessed her. In no way was that intangibility.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



He moved into her body. Transference? No evidence of that, first time I have heard of such shit. Oh, and he was an incorporeal entity when he appeared to Zant as well.



skiboydoggy said:


> So Ganondorf is still noticeably slower, and physical ability and magical ability are similar if not leaning in Sephiroth's favour? Why has this gone on for so long? Why can't Sephiroth just fire bladebeams at Ganondorf from twenty paces and get it over with? Or telekinetically crush him like he did all the members of AVALANCHE while busy with Holy and Meteor?



Ganondorf makes Sephiroth look like a child in terms of physical might and durability. As for magical ability, lol, Ganondorf rapes in that scenario. Because Ganondorf can make himself incorporeal and is too durable. As for Sephiroth's telekinetic attack on AVALANCHE, weaklings, and Zant, Ganon's bitch, showed more impressive TK than that instance.



Raigen said:


> Next part Zelda openly states that her heart was part of Midna's, if for a brief time. Which meant her soul/consciousness had been transferred and/or trapped inside Midna. Which still means that Zelda's body was nothing more than a soulless puppet. And what Midna did with Zelda and Link may have looked the same as what Ganon did, but it isn't. Midna Transferred/transported Link and Zelda out of the castle in order to save them. None of that was intangibility.



True, Midna was soulless. What is your point with Midna?


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## Raigen (Jul 4, 2009)

Yet Ganon just happens to get his face kicked in by a guy who is maybe peak human. Don't make me laugh. Your wankery of Ganon has gone on for 11 pages and you've done nothing to prove his abilities. You claim intangibility and don't prove it. You claim strength and he gets hurt by an effing Horse. That is just completely lame. Lear some new tricks guys. Your fail is reaching epic levels.


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## Pintsize (Jul 4, 2009)

> Again, none of that was intangibility. I've already disproven it. It wasn't even used in battle in any way.



How did you disprove that it was intangibility? At least one (when he hides in shadow) has been thoroughly tested in that no matter what you do, you cannot hit the fucker. 

And his flaming head was most certainly used in battle, as he thoroughly trounced Midna (who just exploded his castle on top of his face) and had her broken crown to show for proof. Also, you can even see its a plasmid as little bits of gas are constantly leaking away from the thing.



> From mind controlling dozens of failed clones to manipulating the severed body parts of an alien entity (Jenova), mind fucking Cloud, creating illusions,



Mind controlling/fucking? Check.

Creating duplications and illusions? Check. Hell, he even created a dark duplicate of the protagonist multiple times. 

Well, I can't say he's ever controlled the dead body parts of an alien before, but he's certainly quite the necromancer. So much so that the entire country becomes riddled with skeletons, and I'm pretty sure he's zombified a dragon before. 



> surviving the Life Stream (big feat when you consider that most die instantly from Mako poisoning upon coming into contact with it).



Correct me if I'm wrong here, but weren't the Jenova cells the reason for that?



> He summoned Meteor and has numerous spells,



Meteor takes too long to be of any real use in battle, something that's been proven every time he's been defeated while summoning it. As for other spells, we don't have any real basis as to what they do other than game mechanics. 

Apart from Advent Children, I don't recall Sephiroth ever destroying any of the battlegrounds they fought in. Of course there was that one town he managed to light on fire, but regular arsonists with a little bit of explosives can do that.



> He's shown flight, TK, super-human speed, strength and durability.



Though Sephiroth's speed is most likely greater than Ganon's, how they stack up in other categories is still iffy. I'd say Durability comes in Ganon's favor, though, as he's never once been killed while possessing the triforce, even though he's been stabbed in the head and sealed in many other ways that should have killed him before.



> Apparently impervious to fire, can control dark powers (he raised his hand and the sky was blocked out by black swirling clouds)



Immunity to fire? Check

Creating a cloud cover is nowhere near as impressive as bathing the entire country in one giant shadowy soul trap. 



> He also even teleported around the Shinra mansion while talking to Cloud.



Who can't teleport?



> Last note, if Ganon was such a 'reality warper' how is it that all of his attacks suck balls



Yes, casually busting through concrete in physical attacks is clearly sucking. Even the weakest of his attacks do greater damage than taking a rock destroying bomb to the face for Link, and when he's using his own dark energy for attacks, usually end up stunning Link for a few seconds in addition to dealing damage. 

Plus there's all the just plain haxx that no one but other tri force wielders can even survive. I hate to harp on it, but summoning a passive barrier the size of an entire country that sucks out souls as a manner of defense is something that not many video game characters have duplicated. Granted, it probably won't affect Sephiroth as other magic users seemed largely unaffected, but there's a reason only Link can duel with Ganon in his games.



> he gets smacked in the face repeatedly by Link? The final fight in TP just involved Link evading Ganon's sword slashes and batting him in the chest with his sword.



...who wields the master sword, with plenty of feats on its own, like shooting lasers in some of the earlier games, and removing permanent curses by touch alone. It's the only weapon strong enough to actually hurt Ganon, and that's been thoroughly tested before as well: even with weapons that easily turn boulders bigger than horses into rubble, you can't even hurt Ganon unless you use the master sword. 

Now obviously, this is somewhat of a no limits fallacy, and of course Ganon can't be hurt by _only_ the master sword, but it just illustrates a point that he is a very, very hard being to even hurt, and nothing has ever killed him. 

Plus, don't act like Link 'just bashing him in the chest' is something like having any other swordsman come and fight him; he's clearly superhuman himself.


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## Stroev (Jul 4, 2009)

Pintsize said:


> Plus there's all the just plain haxx that no one but other tri force wielders can even survive. I hate to harp on it, but summoning a passive barrier the size of an entire country that sucks out souls as a manner of defense is something that not many video game characters have duplicated. Granted, it probably won't affect Sephiroth as other magic users seemed largely unaffected, but there's a reason only Link can duel with Ganon in his games.


If you're alking about the prism over castle town in TP, that didn't suck out their souls. If not, then ignore.

Either way, there is no way Sephiroth is taking this easily, if at all.


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## Pintsize (Jul 4, 2009)

> If you're alking about the prism over castle town in TP, that didn't suck out their souls. If not, then ignore.



No, I'm talking about the Twilight that they had to spend the first half of the game removing. I can't remember if it was exactly Zant or Ganon who did it, but it doesn't matter anyway, as Zant got all his power form Ganon in the first place.


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Yet Ganon just happens to get his face kicked in by a guy who is maybe peak human. Don't make me laugh. Your wankery of Ganon has gone on for 11 pages and you've done nothing to prove his abilities. You claim intangibility and don't prove it. You claim strength and he gets hurt by an effing Horse. That is just completely lame. Lear some new tricks guys. Your fail is reaching epic levels.



Peak human?

Every Link has items to enhance physical strength, or is just plain physically fucking power, like TP Link who tossed that giant, armored Goron like a basketball.

Ganon gets hurt by a horse? Lol when?

Don't prove it? Let's see...He transforms himself into Twilight matter several times in the TP game, becoming incorporeal...Yet I can't prove it? Downplaying feats only makes you look like even more of a raging ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Again, none of that was intangibility. I've already disproven it. It wasn't even used in battle in any way. Also, Sephy has done a lot. From mind controlling dozens of failed clones to manipulating the severed body parts of an alien entity (Jenova), mind fucking Cloud, creating illusions, surviving the Life Stream (big feat when you consider that most die instantly from Mako poisoning upon coming into contact with it). He summoned Meteor and has numerous spells, not to mention that he can easily deflect and even cut down magic spells (like against Genesis' Flare magic).
> 
> He's shown flight, TK, super-human speed, strength and durability. Apparently impervious to fire, can control dark powers (he raised his hand and the sky was blocked out by black swirling clouds) and has even phased through walls (the floor on the Ship, and *that* is a form of intangibility). He also even teleported around the Shinra mansion while talking to Cloud.
> 
> Last note, if Ganon was such a 'reality warper' how is it that all of his attacks suck balls and he gets smacked in the face repeatedly by Link? The final fight in TP just involved Link evading Ganon's sword slashes and batting him in the chest with his sword.



Failed clones who have weak minds. He for all intents and purposes is Jenova, his manipulation of it is in no way surprising or relevant here. Mindfucking Cloud? Who when he was mindfucked already had a very warped mind to begin with? Even single pieces of the Fused Shadows can mind-control creatures, Ganondorf>>>The full power of all the Fused Shadows. Creating illusions? Like what? Oh, and even Zant can straight up reality warp. Surviving the Lifestream is not surprising when you consider how much Mako Sephiroth already has in him. Meteor is not part of his personal power, and he will be dead long before it gets here. Numerous spells...That are nothing to Ganon's feats. Genesis' Flare magic has done nothing worthy of note other than cause a small explosion.

Ganon has flight, and even Zant's instance of TKing Link, Midna, and the Light Spirit are above Sephiroth's of TKing AVALANCHE. Ganon is stronger and more durable than Sephiroth, who really has few durability feats to mention. He gets cut by guys like Cloud pretty easily. Impervious to fire? Lol? Because he walked through it and took a fire attack? By your logic, so is Ganon. Dark powers? Oh, you mean his summoning of black clouds around Midgar? Funny. Ganon did that to the planet in Windwaker. He has intangibility, I will admit that, but so does Ganondorf. As for teleportation...Ganon has had that since the first Zelda game.

Because it was a sword battle, and he forgets his powers when he fights Link.

Using your shitty logic, where were all of Sephiroth's "numerous" powers in AC when he got the shit kicked out of him by Cloud?


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## SHM (Jul 4, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> He for all intents and purposes is Jenova



Yep. The same Jenova who destroyed entire civilizations on different planets.



> Creating illusions? Like what?



At the Northern Crater, he created an illusion of Nibelheim(normal, and on fire), an illusion of himself, Zack, Tifa(tricking RedXIII), etc.



> Surviving the Lifestream is not surprising when you consider how much Mako Sephiroth already has in him.



Mako = Lifestream. 
So what you are saying, is that he survived the Lifestream after falling in it, because he was able to survive all the Lifestream "injected" on him before that. 



> Meteor is not part of his personal power



Sephiroth *absorbed* the Black Materia you know.



> Numerous spells...That are nothing to Ganon's feats.



Too bad that the majority of Ganon's most impressive feats are due to some plot-device(most of the time, the Triforce), and are too slow(Ex: From all we know, Ganon could have needed *7 years* to freeze Zora's domain).



> are above Sephiroth's of TKing AVALANCHE.



What makes Sephiroth TKing Avalanche an impressive feat, isn't the fact he was doing that perse, but the fact he was doing that while influencing the two most powerful spells in the planet at the same time.



> He gets cut by guys like Cloud pretty easily.



Due to some plot-device impeding him of going all-out.



> Dark powers? Oh, you mean his summoning of black clouds around Midgar?



Nope. He means the Negative Lifestream he summoned around Midgar that was going to kill the planet, and transform it in a personal "spaceship" for Sephiroth to use, and travel the universe with it.



> Using your shitty logic, where were all of Sephiroth's "numerous" powers in AC when he got the shit kicked out of him by Cloud?





> Because it was a sword battle, and he forgets his powers when he fights *Cloud*.


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

SHM said:


> Yep. The same Jenova who destroyed entire civilizations on different planets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. Featless civilizations. 

2. Ah, I remember now. 

3. He was injected while still in the womb, he was born with all the "Lifestream" he possessed, as well as J-Cells. 

4. True, but this means...What? That he will summon a Meteor that will come two weeks from now?

5. He constantly has the Triforce of Power, it is standard equipment for him. Too slow? His Twilight infection spell, the one that can easily cover entire regions per cast, is instantaneous. Also, Ganondorf froze over Zora's Domain when he created Morpha to guard the Water Temple. 

6. Kay. And Zant, who possesses a minute fraction of Ganon's power, effortlessly TK raped Link, Midna, and the most powerful Light Spirit, whose influence spans the entire region of Lanayru, which contains Hyrule Castle and the city surrounding it, Zora's Domain and their river, and Lake Hylia.

7. That does not enhance his durability. I have always said Cloud defeating him is PIS, but Cloud harming him is not.

8. Which has no feats whatsoever...Oh except cracking the ground.

9. Obviously. I was pointing out his hypocrisy.


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## Densoro (Jul 4, 2009)

Raigen said:


> About 2min in is where Ganon does the 'intangible' deal. And I can say for certain, that right there is not intangibility. It's transference. Ganon transferred himself into Zelda's soulless body and possessed her. In no way was that intangibility.



I said that his _particles_ were intangible. Those things that he frags into when he teleports (both to teleport into Zelda and in boar form when he teleports around the stage. Same thing as when Link teleports). The reason I even brought up his particles being intangible is because you said that Sephiroth would cut said particles apart. So I told you that's not happening.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jul 4, 2009)

Can't read all the new posts yet. Although I believe I have already proven that Ganon goes intangible casually.

Stop limiting him to TP only.


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

Can you remind me of other instances? I cannot recall.


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## Pyre's Plight (Jul 4, 2009)

Link to the past. He spammed the hell out of it just by moving around. You could see his shadow, but you couldn't hit him.

When he got fed up with you, he darkened the area and became invisible altogether. He mentioned something about dark arts and you could only hit him by brightening up the area again.

As seen in OoT, bringing darkness to the skies is normal for Ganon.


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## RWB (Jul 4, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> 1. He can get maybe one hit in. Which won't harm Ganondorf. Ganondorf tanks hits from Golden Gauntlet wearing Link and tanks Light Arrows. Both>>>Sephiroth in terms of force.



Question, what strength class do you calculate GG-Link to be in? 



Dark-Jaxx said:


> 2. Well let's see.
> 
> As seen in Windwaker, anything but Light Arrows or the Master Sword when striking Ganon simply does not harm him.
> 
> ...




[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofFsnbdctU[/YOUTUBE]

L-2 Sword= Noble Sword.
L-1 Sword=Wooden Sword. Do your research, man. 





Dark-Jaxx said:


> 3. Feats? Well gee, there is him destroying a fortress with one breath of fire.




Valoo at 6:20

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQz0KNq0bU8[/YOUTUBE]

Oh yeah. so destructive- he lit some wood on fire. He destroyed a wooden lookout.

Once again, do your research.


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 4, 2009)

Dunno how this thread lasted 12 pages. It's obvious Sephiroth slits his wrists with his giant sword for sucking so much I'd sadly have to agree that Sephiroth has a definite edge here. Might not be a complete and utter stomp but his chances of victory are pretty good.


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## NemeBro (Jul 4, 2009)

RWB said:


> Question, what strength class do you calculate GG-Link to be in?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. 100. That slab of granite has been calced to be about 1,000 tons.

2. Alright, I'll accept that.

But that does not change my main point.

3. I concede the point of Valoo.

But, the tanking of Light Arrows, and his castle's collapse in OoT, both point to Ganon being far more durable than Sephiroth.

But seriously. Can ANYONE here tell me what is stopping Ganon from using Twilight magic to revert Sephiroth to a bodiless, harmles soul? This magic instantly affects entire regions.


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## Terryc250 (Jul 5, 2009)

Raigen said:


> He's shown flight, TK, super-human speed, strength and durability. Apparently impervious to fire, can control dark powers (he raised his hand and the sky was blocked out by black swirling clouds) and has even phased through walls (the floor on the Ship, and *that* is a form of intangibility). He also even teleported around the Shinra mansion while talking to Cloud



That "dark power"  was stated as the negative lifestream.  The lifestream infected by Jenova Cells thus under Sephiroths control.  Lifestream being the source of all magic, life, power, and energy on the planet.  Sephiroth was going to use that to transform the entire planet into his vessel.

He's also shown to have instant teleportation, in both Crisis Core and in the City of Ancients in FF7. he also has held a force capable of destroying everything on the planet with his willpower. 

Sephiroth has shown himself the ability of intangeability, and Kadaj has mist through doors before.


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## skiboydoggy (Jul 5, 2009)

I think just about every argument here used to support Ganondorf can be used with Sephiroth as well. He has shown intangibility as well, his magic has controlled two planetary spells at the same time while TK crushing eight out of the fifteen or so strongest people on the planet, not to mention collapsing entire upper level of skyscrapers just to create a suitable battlefield in AC, his strength is significant enough to make steel and concrete his bitches with the Masamune (which I believes beats just about every feat Link has with his swords, since I keep seeing this whole deal with the boulder,) and can extend his reach with his bladebeam spam.

His durability is also pretty damn good, considering how it took an entire party to defeat Safer Sephiroth and how he was only truly defeated by Omnislash V.5, which is notably stronger than all of Cloud's other Limit Breaks, all of which can carve up buildings and massive summoned dragons that basically ignore bullets.

His speed has already been long established to be significantly above Ganon's arrow-reacting speeds, which makes instantly sending bladebeams for lulz right off the bat easy enough.

Why are people still saying Ganon stomps?


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 5, 2009)

Because he deserves to stomp.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm neutral but this needs some correcting:



> His durability is also pretty damn good, considering how it took an entire party to defeat Safer Sephiroth and how he was only truly defeated by Omnislash V.5, which is notably stronger than all of Cloud's other Limit Breaks, all of which can carve up buildings and massive summoned dragons that basically ignore bullets.



Seph was defeated by the party. His battle with Cloud was a mental one and Cloud showed he had more will than a guy who supposedly has the 'highest' willpower in the series. So it was Cloud's Willpower>>Seph's that allowed him to win the mental struggle where Seph was trying to take over his body.


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## skiboydoggy (Jul 5, 2009)

Omnislash V.5 was what defeated AC Sephiroth, not FFVII Sephiroth. His willpower doesn't change though, he was probably just confused by the events happening around him. A person of his calibre has no business being beaten by AVALANCHE at all, ever.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 5, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> Omnislash V.5 was what defeated AC Sephiroth, not FFVII Sephiroth. His willpower doesn't change though, he was probably just confused by the events happening around him. A person of his calibre has no business being beaten by AVALANCHE at all, ever.



Actually as per the remake it was V6.0.


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## NemeBro (Jul 5, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> I think just about every argument here used to support Ganondorf can be used with Sephiroth as well. He has shown intangibility as well, his magic has controlled two planetary spells at the same time while TK crushing eight out of the fifteen or so strongest people on the planet, not to mention collapsing entire upper level of skyscrapers just to create a suitable battlefield in AC, his strength is significant enough to make steel and concrete his bitches with the Masamune (which I believes beats just about every feat Link has with his swords, since I keep seeing this whole deal with the boulder,) and can extend his reach with his bladebeam spam.
> 
> His durability is also pretty damn good, considering how it took an entire party to defeat Safer Sephiroth and how he was only truly defeated by Omnislash V.5, which is notably stronger than all of Cloud's other Limit Breaks, all of which can carve up buildings and massive summoned dragons that basically ignore bullets.
> 
> ...



Him controlling Meteor is not a feat of his own magical strength, it was with the Black Materia. Holy is not quantifiable. All of Avalanche but Cloud and Vincent are not powerful, at all, and none of them are as powerful as Ganon. While Sephiroth has better slicing feats than either, Ganon and Link's physical strength make his own look pitiful. 

Gameplay...We have no idea how the fight with Safer Seph went. Also, Ganondorf, is much more durable than Sephiroth. He also has the power to kill him, disintegrating people with punches and all that.

True, he is faster. But thing is, if he gets one blade beam or attack off, Ganon WILL tank it, and then become intangible. As for why Ganon stomps, well soul rape is the easiest method to be honest. No one has yet to give me Sephiroth's defense for this, he has not shown immunity to soul assaults.


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## MysticMetaKurra (Jul 6, 2009)

How is Ganon more durable than Sephiroth?


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## NemeBro (Jul 6, 2009)

Better feats, obviously.

One tanks light arrows which disintegrate any other evil being in a shot.

One is hurt by Cloud's sword.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 13, 2009)

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not a big Zelda fan. I started bad my first Zelda was Zelda II which I was sick of after about an hour.

I'm a huge FFVII fan though. I haven't really seen anything that Ganon does that Sephiroth can't do.



Dark-Jaxx said:


> 1. 100. That slab of granite has been calced to be about 1,000 tons.
> 
> 2. Alright, I'll accept that.
> 
> ...


Well Sephiroth even as a soul is hardly harmless. I think his willpower is proven. The life stream is a well of all the souls on the planet not currently alive. With a little help from Jenova he pwned it.

Furthermore on the subject of Jenova he straight dominated her too. Mind you Jenova is an alien parasite that as a function of its life is in the business of taking over minds. That's its viral behavior. Depriving Sephiroth of a body is clearly not a reliable method of dealing with him. 

And to counter what would prevent Sephiroth from using the Sin Harvest attack that reduces a target's hp to 1?

Sephiroth is also combined with Jenova, and she is clearly potent no matter how many pieces you slice her and thus him into.

Also both Cloud and Link have special properties that allow them to be the only one who can defeat so and so, be it Cloud's own Jenova cells and Soldier body or Link's swords. Shouldn't those be suspended for the sake of a battle not involving either hero?


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## pikachuwei (Dec 14, 2009)

Sephiroth's body is pretty durable imo

he took 14 hits from the Fucking First Tsurigi in ACC (OMnislash V6)
and his body was still in one piece. I mean First Tsurigi can easily cut giant concrete slabs in half.

And Sephiroth's slicing feats are quite insane. The shinra tower is at least a few hundred metres tall and seph slices through it like butter. The Sister ray slicing feats are nothing to be laughed at.

sicne this is a quite long argument for a victory that for me goes to sephiroth, lets put a new scenario

Sephiroth kills Link, steals the master sword and uses it against ganon.

u guys cant say that "only the master sword can harm ganon" now.

and dont give me the crap that "only Link can use the master sword". Sephiroth cuts off Link's hand with the Triforce if he needs that to wield the master sword.


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## pikachuwei (Dec 14, 2009)

hey wat sephiroth having the master sword =/= instant win, its just that mebbe ppl will accept that Sephiroth can actually HURT ganon now if we give seph one of the 2 weapons that are supposedly able to dmg him (for obvious reasons i dont give Seph the light arrows, Seph with bow doesnt quite cut it for me)

oh and dont worry seph cant utilize any of the Master sword's extra abilities (no triforce), only the fact that it is imbued with magical light energy that can hurt Ganondorf if it hits him

so seph will still have to rely on his swordskills and speed for this.
in fact it may be a disadvantage now since Master sword is sumthing like half hte length of masamune >.<


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## Onomatopoeia (Dec 14, 2009)

1: The Triforce is not in Link's hand, the tatoo is just an indicator that he possesses it.
2: Link isn't in this. It's Ganon vs Sephy-chan. If the thread starter wanted Sephina to have the Master Sword he'd have given it to him.
3: Why did you revive this?


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## pikachuwei (Dec 14, 2009)

^sorry i have nothing else to do waiting for 5.50 Gen D3 for psp to come out to play GvGN+

so in teh meantime im surfing the battledrome and posting in threads that i am interested in. Tbh i didnt know that all teh threads i necroed (i think theres 3 if i remember) were old >.>


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Dec 14, 2009)

^ Be sure to check the dates then. It shows the date and time each post was made.


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## Kenpachi Fried Poultry (Dec 15, 2009)

pikachuwei said:


> Sephiroth's body is pretty durable imo
> 
> he took 14 hits from the Fucking First Tsurigi in ACC (OMnislash V6)
> and his body was still in one piece. I mean First Tsurigi can easily cut giant concrete slabs in half.
> ...



Isn't Sephiroth evil, I'd advise him not to touch the *Blade of EVIL' BANE*
If someone as unmagical a Cloud ha a chance of giving Sephiroth a whomping, then Ganon shouldn't have any problems with this one.


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## The Red Gil (Dec 15, 2009)

Or the pseudo-god impales ganon in an instant?


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## Darth (Dec 15, 2009)

I dunno. Sephy has some insane slicing abilities. And Ganon's not much of a dodger. If he tries to tank everything Sephiroth throws at him he's in for a world of pain.

To be honest, I can't see Sephiroth losing this. Not unless Ganondorf has the completed Triforce. Then again, I've only played OoT, MM, WW, and A Link to the Past. So I'm not an expert on Zelda games.


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## Watchman (Dec 15, 2009)

Darth said:


> I dunno. Sephy has some insane slicing abilities. And Ganon's not much of a dodger. If he tries to tank everything Sephiroth throws at him he's in for a world of pain.
> 
> To be honest, I can't see Sephiroth losing this. Not unless Ganondorf has the completed Triforce. Then again, I've only played OoT, MM, WW, and A Link to the Past. So I'm not an expert on Zelda games.



In Twilight Princess, Ganondorf has teleportation and intangibility due to mastery of the Twili magic. I'm no Final Fantasy expert, though, so know very little about Sephiroth.


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## Darth (Dec 15, 2009)

Doesn't the OBD wiki have entries on both of these guys?


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## Darth (Dec 15, 2009)

Link removed
Link removed

Yeah, based on abilities alone, I'm still going to go with Sephiroth. they both seem to have the same strength class, and they both have endless magic. But Sephiroth has his "Heartless Angel" tech with which he can essentially ruin Ganon. 

So as per this thread, Ganon may win round 1. But I'm banking on Sephiroth to win rounds 2 and 3.


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## Punchsplosion (Apr 28, 2012)

Ok....first time poster and I know that necroing is SEVERELY frowned upon.  However, based on the new FFVII character speed calcs (mach 26), Sephiroth's extreme resistance to being soul/mind fucked (lifestream couldn't absorb his spirit or consciousness), and his access to all summons/magic on the planet I would give this to Sephiroth.  Mach 26 is a speed that FAR out-stripes anything the Zelda characters are capable of.  Even if Ganondorf went intangible after Sephiroth landed the first 20 blows (at least) he still would be unable to actually land anything on his opponent due to the sheer speed at which Sephiroth reacts and perceives threats.  

Additionally, what really stops Sephiroth from utilizing ALL of the summons at his disposal when he figures out that his attacks MIGHT not be able to put Ganon down?  There is one summon in FFVII that I know can put the Zelda villain away.  People are constantly quoting that Ganon is resistant to all but Divine/Holy magic.  Well, there happens to be a near city-sized creature capable of firing off beams of Divine/Holy energy at the target from massive turrets.  The name of that entity is Alexander and Sephiroth has access to him.  Alternatively, he could just immediately change the property of his weapon to that of Holy-based by utilizing the Elemental Materia with Alexander.

It seems to me that there is no feasible way for Ganon to actually catch a serious Sephiroth.  Realistically, Cloud only beats Sephiroth in the games and movie due to PIS. Yoshinori Kitase (the producer of the Advent Children) pretty much stated as much in an interview.  Link has the same advantage over Ganon.  He's the hero of the story.  Realistically, Cloud would shit all over Ganondorf with his speed and the ability to deliver building-busting, magical sword strikes and nailing him with crazy magic spells.  

The power of Limit Breaks as stated in Crisis Core Complete Guide Keyword Collection is derived from the ultimate expression of spiritual energy exuding from the body allowing people to perform actions far more powerful than their normal abilities.  Cloud and Sephiroth NORMALLY cleave through steel and concrete like butter, play with bullet-timers, smash around thousand-ton creatures that tank those building-busting attacks, and move around at mach 26.  Bahamut SIN was tanking Cloud's best blows (the attacks that were casually slicing through buildings later in the movie) before he Limit Breaked a Climbhazzard from his person and elminated the threat.

Ganon's best feat is tanking the destruction of his castle.  Cloud or Sephiroth could easily collapse his building with a single blow and tank the damage equivalent of one.  Then, they could go all spirit glowy and crank up the destruction by an unidentified amount with magical might.  We know that it is enough to destroy a creature capable of tanking building busters with little to no damage in one shot.  You do that math.

Once again, I am sorry to necro this thread but my silence could only be held on to for so long before I decided to create an account and comment.  I really think that Sephiroth's page should be updated with a win against Ganon.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 28, 2012)

Chaos, this is all your fault


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## Punchsplosion (Apr 28, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> Chaos, this is all your fault



Not really...I have been thinking about doing this for months now.  Just didn't really get the time to sit down until now.  However, yes Chaos's calcs reminded me of this thread and I wanted to add my own ideas about Limit Breaks, the durability of Bahamut SIN, and Ganondorf's stated disadvantage against Holy-based attacks.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 28, 2012)

Ok... while a "valid" necro... you COULD have made a new thread.

Though, seriously, sephiroth was considered faster before by a huge margin anyway.

I thought Ganon won by virtue of intang + soul fuck or whatever.

Didn't really read this because I didn't really care much.

Ganon's feat of collapsing the castle is pretty under valued as well btw.

Though IIRC, I don't think anyone nowadays would abuse Ganon's no limits fallacy durability.  He's kind of fucked if he does get hit.



Fluttershy said:


> Chaos, this is all your fault



Yeah, yeah.


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## Punchsplosion (Apr 28, 2012)

So would this be a circumstance worthy of a victory in the books of Sephiroth?  I understand people's hate for this character.  I really do.  But this should be a clear cut victory for someone with his shown advantages:  resistance to soulfuck/mind control, colossal speed advantage, the ability to utterly turn Ganon into paste with a single strike, and his access to some form of Holy magic.

I'm only doing this because I truly believe that Ganon doesn't have an answer to the feats of Sephiroth.  I'm a huge fan of Zelda.  Ganon is my favorite Smash Bros character and I have played the majority of the Zelda titles.  I don't want to be accused of being a fanboy.  I just think Sephy takes it easily.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 28, 2012)

Hm?

He has resistance to soul fuck?

Don't really remember that.

As I mentioned, the holy magic thing probably isn't even relevant, barring whether or not its needed to bypass intang.

And yes, I hate his character, but I can see what you're asking.

Still, just remake the thread in the future.  No one wants to see a necro.


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## Toriko (Apr 28, 2012)

I've been meaning to scale the castle Ganondorf destroyed.

I'm running into the tropish "bigger on the inside than outside" thing.


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## RWB (Apr 28, 2012)

Darth said:


> To be honest, I can't see Sephiroth losing this. Not unless Ganondorf has the completed Triforce. Then again, I've only played OoT, MM, WW, and A Link to the Past. So I'm not an expert on Zelda games.



Full Triforce isn't gonna help him much:

1. It's limited by the power of the wish(how strongly he wishes for something). Considering the sages seal held his wish back without problems for centuries... not looking good.

2. He was beaten by ALttP Link who had no Triforce or actual help in a one on one fight.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 28, 2012)

That's likely a post a few years old you just quoted.

This was a necro.


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## SHM (Apr 28, 2012)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Hm?
> 
> He has resistance to soul fuck?
> 
> Don't really remember that.



He is probably refering to Sephiroth's soul 'surviving' in the Lifestream for years, without being dilluted by it.


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## Red Angel (Apr 28, 2012)

*looks at the date this was posted*

Why was this bumped?


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## Nevermind (Apr 28, 2012)

Because someone doesn't know how to make a new thread it seems.

Sephiroth should win I guess.

How terrible is that?


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## ViewtifulJoe (Apr 29, 2012)

i think ganondorf would win, cince he can use everything from every game, he is conciderably more powerfull than just if he could use onley one. he can telaport, create and travel through dementions, summon monsters, raise the dead, cast spells, create clones of himself, fly, shoot energy blasts, wield a sword VERY well, transform, create objects from nothing, and use his mind to lift othings. (like his castle and the small island it was on) ganon has massive strength and durability, he is far stronger than link and link was able to throw a giant stone pillair (like 20-30 feet tall) as far as a normal person could throw a base ball. he is also fast,  as he blocked light arrows fired at his back wile sword fighting with link. and that was withought the triforce!  as for his durability, he had a castle fall on him after geting hit many times with the master sword, light arows, and magic blasts, and he was still fresh to fight another round.  and think about it, if link can lift stone pillairs that sise, imagion how hard and fast he can swing his sword! also ganon has had a magic sword designed to kill him, stabbed through his heart and he still had the power to break is (probably magic and enhanced) shackles and kill a god with one attack. also ganon could summon zant and vatti to help him, and they each are gods! well zant isnt realy one, but he is close.  plus ganon has his armor, 3 puppets who can fight for him, and a horse to ride on. he also could use all his weapons to attack at the same time using his telepathy.


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## Negative Zero (Apr 29, 2012)

Ganondorf's notable feats from various games.

*Ganon (The Legend of Zelda)*
Look what Gaara can do
Ganon can turn invisible while teleporting around and shooting blasts of magic.
-
*Ganon (A Link to the Past)*
-Ganon twists the Sacred Realm (made by the highest beings in LoZ canon) into the Dark World.
-Ganon uses a part of his very soul to create Agahnim, the Dark Wizard.
Look what Gaara can do
Can create swirling fire balls, summon Fire Keese, teleport, and become invisible.
-
*Ganondorf (Ocarina of Time)*
-Killed the Deku Tree (a forest deity) with a death curse by creating the parasite Gohma to drain the tree's life away.
-Resurrected the Dodongos from extinction as well as resurrecting Volvagia.
-Blocked the entrance to Dodongo's Cavern with a giant boulder (either created magically or moved by his own strength).
-Froze the water in Zora's Domain with a death curse by creating Morpha.
-Frees Bongo Bongo from his imprisonment in the well in Kakariko Village.
-Created Barinade and Phantom Ganon.

Look what Gaara can do
(1:30-1:50)
Blasts Link many feet away with a flash of dark magic.

Look what Gaara can do
(7:15-8:30)
Ganondorf shows that he doesn't even need to be in the same area as another person to trap them in his Crystal Prison spell. He simply needs to know a person's location. He can then warp the prisoner to another location.

Look what Gaara can do
(1:30-2:00)
Ganondorf shows the ability to hold people back using waves of his dark magic. He then displays a degree of reality warping by making all the objects in the room vanish into thin air.

(2:00-8:40)
Ganondorf breaks away sections of the floor just by punching it as well as using a more powerful charged up version of his famous Dead Man's Volley spell. Even though it's not shown in this video of the battle, but he can also block incoming arrows with his cape, displaying arrow timing reflexes.

Look what Gaara can do
Ganondorf uses his power (while being severly weakened, by the way) to destroy his own castle.

Look what Gaara can do
Ganondorf survives being crushed by his own castle, creates a barrier of fire to prevent Link and Zelda's escape, turns into Ganon (the Dark Beast), and is only weakened just enough to be sealed into the Sacred Realm.
-
*Ganondorf (Wind Waker)*
-Escaped from the Sacred Realm using his own power.
-Resurrected Gohma.
-Created and enless night using his own power.
-Destroyed Greatfish Island while being miles away in the Forsaken Fortress.
-Created Helmaroc King, Jalhalla, Molgera, and many Phantom Ganons.

Look what Gaara can do
(4:25-4:40)
Ganondorf specifically states that he can't be defeated by a weapon that can't strike down evil.

(6:15-6:40)
Ganondorf survives being blasted with fire from Valoo (a deity) without even the smallest scratch as proven in Ganondorf's next appearence.

Look what Gaara can do
Ganondorf displays his most impressive swordsmanship in the entire series as well as impressive agility. He can also jump right over arrows fired from behind him, displaying a keen sense of awareness as well as arrow timing reflexes.
-
*Ganondorf (Twilight Princess)*
-Granted Zant a fraction of his own power.
-Froze Zora's Domain and drained the water in Lake Hylia with a death curse.
-Resurrected Gohma in the Temple of Time.
-Can exist as nothing but a soul.
-Covered Hyrule Castle in a gigantic barrier.

Look what Gaara can do
(1:25-3:00)
Ganondorf survives his own execution, breaks his shackles using raw strength, and then vaporizes the Water Sage with a single punch.

Look what Gaara can do
Ganondorf possesses Zelda and then displays the ability to use telekinesis by throwing Midna across the room with it before surrounding the room with magic barriers.

Look what Gaara can do
(0:15-1:00)
Ganondorf's physical body is desintigrated but he rebuilds a new body very quickly from literally nothing.

(2:30-2:40)
Ganon teleports out the way of an incoming arrow while running towards it, displaying arrow timing reflexes.

Look what Gaara can do
(1:00-3:00)
Ganondorf survives having his soul directly attacked by Midna using the full power of the Fused Shadows, overpowers Midna (and possibly being the one who blew up Hyrule Castle), rebuilt his body, teleported all the way from Hyrule Castle to the Eldin Province while summoning his horse out of nowhere, and then crushed a piece of the Fused Shadows with one hand.

Look what Gaara can do
Displays more barrier control, impressive swordsmanship, and agility. He can also dodge and block arrows fired at him.


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## VyseofArcadia (Oct 12, 2013)

The only reason the master sword is said to be the only weapon able to kill him is because in the Zelda series it is the strongest weapon to use against him. Sephiroth is considerably more powerful than anyone from Zelda, and unlike the Zelda characters and items, Sephiroth actually has the feats to show how powerful he is without fans having to highly exaggerate and misinterpret his feats like too many Nintendo fanatics do with their favorite characters (many of which aren’t even interesting, what with hardly even having personalities and all, along with being some of the weakest yet most exaggerated characters in gaming, and all just because the Nintendo company is soooo popular). The master swords most impressive feats are deflecting light based magic projectiles (most of which have never been shown to even be powerful enough to break stone), shooting small lasers that also have never been shown to be strong enough to break stone, shooting blades of air which have only been shown to be strong enough to cut through giant tentacles, and shifting time only when inserted into a certain stone or pulled back out, the master sword itself has never been shown to have any time manipulating abilities. Even in the Zelda series it is also said to be possible to kill Ganondorf with silver arrows. Even using the argument that the master sword has a specific property that makes it able to kill Ganon (like being divinely blessed or something like that), it’s pure logic that a character or item with greater power and feats than the master sword renders that argument a moot point. now here are some of Sephiroth’s feats without resorting to creating a supernova in a more powerful form Video link,Video link,Video link. Ganon has never shown anything even on half of Sephiroth’s level. A fight between Ganondorf and Sephiroth wouldn’t last more than a minute and a half, and that’s if Sephiroth is feeling generous.


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## Darth Niggatron (Oct 12, 2013)

Look at the date the thread was created before posting. 
>4.YEARS.AGO.


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## Fenrir (Oct 12, 2013)

>VyseofArcadia
>Today, 06:34 PM
>Negative Zero
>04-30-2012, 04:47 AM

Explain how bumping this made sense.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Oct 12, 2013)

Fucking necro...

As for how it stands now?

The only Ganon that'd stand a chance is one with his power augmented by the complete triforce.

Best he's had canonically is 2/3rds of it IIRC though. 

Still puts his ass well above Majora, but that's not really cutting it.


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