# Your Controversial/Unpopular NBD Opinion



## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

Got this idea from a similar thread in a different section.

Mention an opinion you have that you believe most of the NBD will find unpopular or controversial. It has to be battledome-related.

I'll start: Healthy Itachi is not that different than the one we saw in the Manga. In fact in a 1 vs 1 match between healthy and sick Itachi, the former would win extreme diff and would be on his last legs. He would not defeat anyone his sick self would not.

wbu

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## Trojan (Jan 31, 2018)

All my facts / opinions are unpopular. When it comes to Minato, Naruto, Hashirama, Tobirama, Asspulldara, itachi, Sasuke, Kakashi, Gai...etc etc. 

Examples:
1- Raw power is not as important as people make it out to be. Hax is, for the most part, is superior. (Of course, that depends on other factors as well)
2- Itachi is not as special/powerful as people make him out to be. He is certainly not smart either (besides manga statements I guess with nothing to back up)
3- Kabuto is not that strong either. SM Jiraya > SM Kabuto
4- BSM Naruto/Minato > Hashirama/EMS Asspulldara
5- Minato > Rinnegan Obito (as if he uses that shit, to begin with lol)
6- 7 Gates Gai is around the same level as Kisame.
7- Oro is pathetic
8- Wood is by no means durable.
9- Base Minato can teleport Hashirama's Buddha without any problem.
10- Base Minato is a tier or 2 above Tobirama. Minato > A&B > Kin&Gin > Tobirama&Raikage2.
11- Tsukyomi is overrated. It won't one-shot anyone worth his shit
12- Tsunade can deal with Tsukyomi without any problem
13- ALL characters with a name, can defeat Amaterasu.
14- Edo Asspulldara won against the Gokage because of PIS/CIS.
15- Naruto surpassed Jman overall when he got KCM, not with SM.
16- I feel like the 8th's Gate EE is overrated because the JJ's durability is overrated.
17- Byakugan user can battle on equal foot with a MS user on the same level.
18- RM Naruto is stronger the Rinnegan Sasuke by a fairly big margin.
19- Nagato can actually give a very difficult fight to Hashirama/Asspulldara had it not been for his leg.
20 -CST is stronger than the Buddha in term of overall power.
21- DMS Kakashi is around the same level as BM Naruto, EMS Sasuke...etc. In a fight, he will lose more times than not.
22- Wind Arc Naruto more or less = Hebi Sasuke.
23- Most of the Kages in terms of feat, are actually stronger than itachi. Altho people will ignore that for itachi's sakes. Like for example, they will say Asspulldara's Susanoos are fodders and do not count. Although I am aware that Kishi won't allow them to win, most likely.
24- The Akatsuki (Kakuzu, Sasori, Deidara, Hidan, Konan) are Arc Bosses. They are strong when they are on their arcs. However, after their defeat, they are mostly fodders. Hence, their humiliating defeat during the war arc. They were treated as side fodders and got defeated so easily.
25- Hashirama's flower jutsu is overrated and so are most of his other jutsu. A good wind/fire style should be able to deal with them.
26- Tobirama is actually one of the weakest Water-style users we have seen in this manga.
27- EMS is practically a MS. There is no difference between them. They are exactly the same.
The blindness is only due to the plot, most of the time its being ignored when it matters.
28- Susanoo's "shock waves" are overrated as fuck. They are incapable of "defeating" anyone. At best, it will blow them away. But by no means kills them.
29- Tensigan is stronger than the Rinnegan.
30- Minato's feat with 8th Gates Gai is as "legit" as it goes as there was a build up before it happened.  (and even logically a S/T jutsu will be faster anyway)
31- Obito's Kamui is the same, there is no different between when he was 14 years old, or 30 years old. It's the same speed.
32- There is no much of a difference between War Arc Kakashi & Zabuza Arc Kakashi.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1 | Coolest Guy! 4


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## FlamingRain (Jan 31, 2018)

Killer Bee > Minato.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

FlamingRain said:


> Killer Bee > Minato.


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## Maverick04 (Jan 31, 2018)

> There's no prime Hiruzen and Prime Hanzo
>  Sannins are way too overhyped in the fandom these days.
>  Rikudou DMS Kakashi was stronger than WA Rinnegan Sasuke
> Kisame probably deserves to be atleast a low end High Kage with his merged Samehada form
> Sage Jiraiya has trash sensory capabilities
> Almost all mid tier Akatsuki barring Kakuzu, would wreck Tsunade
> Naruto the Last was inconsistent in terms of abilities and overall canon
> Orochimaru is the strongest Sannin even without the Edo tensei

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 1


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Jan 31, 2018)

Bijuu besides the Kyuubi are overrrated

The Masters and Kisame are not that far above the bare minimum for Kage level

Old Hiruzen was the strongest of the five Kage of his time

Reactions: Agree 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> I'll start: Healthy Itachi is not that different than the one we saw in the Manga. In fact in a 1 vs 1 match between healthy and sick Itachi, the former would win extreme diff and would be on his last legs.* He would not defeat anyone his sick self would not.*


I agree

Sick itachi can beat anyone Healthy itachi can just with more difficulty on the former's part

Mine

Hebi Sasuke and the mid tier akatsuki members (Kisame, Deidara, Sasori) are all on the same level of ability and can contend with the Sannin and do well against them, in many cases the sannin would be forced to use their full power to win...*Tho i do favor the sannin overall in a fight the gap is WAY smaller than most people believe*
FKS/Danzo fight Sasuke>Itachi
Itachi>Jman
Amaterasu can end Kage tiers and "smokebombs gg" might be the dumbest counter argument to it ive EVER seen...And its generally accepted around here which makes it even worse...Its not a forcefield gentlemen...Its smoke that things can pass through...Amaterasu also is shown to have forward momentum...So a smokebomb does nothing but AT WORST force the amaterasu user to fire a slightly bigger blast...Which all of them are capable of doing...
Genjutsu can also end kage tiers tho not directly...Im saying it incapacitates them long enough for the genjutsu user to land a fatal blow, not that genjutsu KOs kages in and of itself (tho some can)
EMS sasuke can use PS and Legged susanoo without Jugo or Naruto...As he manifests the PS shell around Kurama after VISIBLY losing BOTH of their amps
Kakashi and Gai as of the War arc are Sannin tier
Nagato>WA Gokage
Jman, under no circumstances that are more balanced than "Jman starts with a Kunai in Nagatos brain" is Jman capable of beating Pain in a straight up 1v1...That statement is refuted when a superior sage AND fighter than Jman, Naruto, faced Pain in the exact circumstances Jman was supposedly capable of winning in...Only Naruto also had the added edge of Pain having no KI AND being tired from 1v1ing a hidden village and winning seconds before narutos arrival...ANd naruto STILL lost...Like 3 goddamn times...Jman has no chance and i really dont see why people toss all this shit out the window based on a noncommittal statement made by pain offhandedly ...The fucker says Jman "MIGHT" have been able to win and Sannin fans interpret that as effectively an admission of total inferiority or something...AND...Heres my FAVORITE part about this whole debate...They DELIBERATELY IGNORE a statement made by JMAN HIMSELF that ACTUALLY IS an admission of TOTAL INFERIORITY to HALF OF PAINS POWER while JMAN IS IN SM...And theyve done this for months straight even after being informed of Jmans word...I couldnt make this shit up if i tried
Fuck Prime Hiruzen  That whole fanon is based on an outdated statement made by FUCKING IRUKA who has NEVER MET Hashirama, Tobirama, Minato, or ANY of the other villages Kages he dares compare a younger hiruzen (whom he has also NEVER SEEN) to and claims hes the strongest...and people think it still holds water and Iruka is literally Moses with the physical word of god in his hands...Baffles me...Legit baffles me

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Hussain said:


> All my facts / opinions


Oh boy 

Hussain used the word "facts" instead of "opinion"

Better watch out 

Hussains last name irl Kishimoto confirmed


Hussain said:


> 1- Raw power is not as important as people make it out to be. Hax is, for the most part, is superior. (Of course, that depends on other factors as well)


I agree oddly enough 


Hussain said:


> 2- Itachi is not as special/powerful as people make him out to be. *He is certainly not smart either* (besides manga statements I guess with nothing to back up)


I agree for the most part oddly enough 

Especially with the bolded

NO ONE in naruto is actually smart...Kishi is incapable of writing intelligent characters


Hussain said:


> 3- Kabuto is not that strong either. *SM Jiraya > SM Kabuto*


I almost puked up my spleen when i read this

And decided it would be beneficial to both MY TIME and yours i guess to just not read the rest if a "gem" like this is number freaking 3 on your list

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


>


Its the truth 

Also [HASHTAG]#rem4life[/HASHTAG] 



The_Conqueror said:


>


He had a better performance against Kaguya sure 

But he also performed arguably better than naruto

AND is a worse match for naruto than Sasuke on paper

At least sasukes genjutsu ignores kamui and ameno can be used to escape it

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Santoryu (Jan 31, 2018)

The gap between Orochimaru and P1 Kakashi is exaggerated. There is a big gap, but it's not astronomical. As Ibiki noted, Orochimaru was a scary guy and we see this with his killing intent. We see Kakashi be far more composed against Itachi, who is Oro's superior.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Its the truth
> 
> Also [HASHTAG]#rem4life[/HASHTAG]
> 
> ...



DMS Kakashi>Naruto>Sasuke then


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

I'll add another one: The gap between Tsunade and the other two Sannin is huge...like really huge. She is not even *close* to being on the same tier.


WorldsStrongest said:


> I agree
> 
> Sick itachi can beat anyone Healthy itachi can just with more difficulty on the former's part
> 
> ...


Agreed. Except for Tsunade who would lose to all of them with the possible exception of Sasori (under favourable circumstances).


> FKS/Danzo fight Sasuke>Itachi


Agreed. This is quite unpopular as well. 


> Itachi>Jman


Wouldn't say that's an unpopular opinion, unless you believe the gap between them is big.


> Amaterasu can end Kage tiers and "smokebombs gg" might be the dumbest counter argument to it ive EVER seen...And its generally accepted around here which makes it even worse...Its not a forcefield gentlemen...Its smoke that things can pass through...Amaterasu also is shown to have forward momentum...So a smokebomb does nothing but AT WORST force the amaterasu user to fire a slightly bigger blast...Which all of them are capable of doing...


Absolutely agreed.

Amaterasu is a very misunderstood and underrated technique.


> Genjutsu can also end kage tiers tho not directly...Im saying it incapacitates them long enough for the genjutsu user to land a fatal blow, not that genjutsu KOs kages in and of itself (tho some can)


That is true as well, it's just that Kishi has been inconsistent with his characters' attempts at using genjutsu. There are many instances where they could use it but they just don't, like Sasuke or Madara (and once they decide to use it they legit incapacitate the opponent).

Itachi is the only consistent one.


> Kakashi and Gai as of the War arc are Sannin tier


Yes, and they pushed Tsunade out of the tier on their way in. 


> Nagato>WA Gokage


All together? 


> Jman, under no circumstances that are more balanced than "Jman starts with a Kunai in Nagatos brain" is Jman capable of beating Pain in a straight up 1v1...That statement is refuted when a superior sage AND fighter than Jman, Naruto, faced Pain in the exact circumstances Jman was supposedly capable of winning in...Only Naruto also had the added edge of Pain having no KI AND being tired from 1v1ing a hidden village and winning seconds before narutos arrival...ANd naruto STILL lost...Like 3 goddamn times...Jman has no chance and i really dont see why people toss all this shit out the window based on a noncommittal statement made by pain offhandedly ...The fucker says Jman "MIGHT" have been able to win and Sannin fans interpret that as effectively an admission of total inferiority or something...AND...Heres my FAVORITE part about this whole debate...They DELIBERATELY IGNORE a statement made by JMAN HIMSELF that ACTUALLY IS an admission of TOTAL INFERIORITY to HALF OF PAINS POWER while JMAN IS IN SM...And theyve done this for months straight even after being informed of Jmans word...I couldnt make this shit up if i tried


Preach.

Not only that, but Jiraiya admitted both Taijutsu and Ninjutsu even in SM were useless against only *three paths *that did not even include Deva or Asura. And the statement from Pain could easily be referring to Jiraiya targeting the real Nagato instead of fighting the paths head on. In fact this makes more sense as the secret is actually "Nagato is controlling them" and whatever path Jiraiya killed (animal, the 3 paths with frog song) kept coming back to life so that was an implication that the secret (Nagato's existence) could prevent such a circumstance of immortal bodies (as he circumvent that by targeting Nagato).



> Fuck Prime Hiruzen  That whole fanon is based on an outdated statement made by FUCKING IRUKA who has NEVER MET Hashirama, Tobirama, Minato, or ANY of the other villages Kages he dares compare a younger hiruzen (whom he has also NEVER SEEN) to and claims hes the strongest...and people think it still holds water and Iruka is literally Moses with the physical word of god in his hands...Baffles me...Legit baffles me


People don't seem understand that there are many other characters that had great hype and no feats to show for them, but the difference between them and Prime Hiruzen is that he was *directly retconned by the author* so there is no reason to be surprised why his status doesn't hold that much weight anymore.

I like they way you interpret the manga. Very close to my understanding.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> DMS Kakashi>Naruto>Sasuke


Actually its more like

DMS Kakashi>Naruto

Sasuke>DMS Kakashi

Naruto>Sasuke


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

Rinne obito>Kisame≥Nagato by @Troyse22 has to be one of the most controversial statements .


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## Trojan (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> And decided it would be beneficial to both MY TIME and yours i guess to just not read the rest if a "gem" like this is number freaking 3 on your list


updated to 31.


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## Shazam (Jan 31, 2018)

Sasori can be beaten by every Akatsuki member besides Hidan (Not saying he loses every time)
War MS Kakashi is easily mid-kage tier
Hanzo was wanked to be more than what he was actually capable of accomplishing
Hanzo is not top tier or high kage
Minato could use SM in brief instances while alive if he needed too
Jiriya > Itachi in equal form
SM Jman under the right conditions, such as full intel, and right location can beat 6PoP

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## Trojan (Jan 31, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> > Sannins are way too overhyped in the fandom these days.


People think P1 Sasuke can defeat Tsunade. And if she ever beats him is only by outlasting him!


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> Wouldn't say that's an unpopular opinion, unless you believe the gap between them is big.


Well...

The gap is wide enough that even supporters of Jman>Itachi in that debate concede that its a close fight EVEN IF you start Jman in SM...

Let alone a neutral matchup...

So theres that 

I wouldnt say i view the gap between them as massive...But its wide enough that a solid majority go to Itachi under most possible circumstances


Shark said:


> The gap between Tsunade and the other two Sannin is huge...like really huge. She is not even *close* to being on the same tier.


I agree shes the weakest by a notable margin

But i still put em all in the same tier

Tsunade is bottom of the barrel by comparison tho


Shark said:


> Amaterasu is a very misunderstood and underrated technique


Damn straight

Considering in this very thread you have a guy saying anyone with a name can counter it 


Shark said:


> All together?


Yep 



Shark said:


> I like they way you interpret the manga


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## Trojan (Jan 31, 2018)

jnikools said:


> War MS Kakashi is easily mid-kage tier


This actually reminds me, that as far as I am concerned:
32- There is no much of a difference between War Arc Kakashi & Zabuza Arc Kakashi.

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## Bonly (Jan 31, 2018)

Tobirama is on par with the Sannin at best

Speed is not an end all be all and slower characters can(and have) hit faster enemies multiple times in the manga

Tsunade isn't slow and if people actually looked at most Kage lvl characters speed feats, alot of them aren't faster then her

Sannin are above Pain arc SM Naruto and MS Sasuke

Genjutsu is underrated in general as people think being a certain lvl means one is unaffected which isn’t true

Perfect Jins aren’t immune to Genjutsu and it works on them

Tsunade is equal to the other Sannin and people need to stop being idiots acting like her support skills abilities don’t exist in fights, there’s more to this manga then 1V1 fights

The masters only surpass the Sannin momentarily with the 8th gate/DMS otherwise they are always a tier behind them

Naruto been ahead of Sasuke since he got Sage Mode in story and Sasuke doesn’t get close until he got the Sage’s chakra

I’m sure there’s more but those are the first that popped into my head.

Reactions: Like 1 | Neutral 3


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## FlamingRain (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


>



I think that if you were to put Killer Bee and Minato in a multitude of different situations Killer Bee would have a better response than Minato to more of them than vice versa, and if the two fought each other to the death as opposed to until one side received an order to retreat then Killer Bee could either outlast the Yellow Flash or force a draw with his Eight Tails Chakra reserves as Minato never showed a way to get around Bee's durability in V2 or Bijū Mode.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Bonly said:


> Tsunade is equal to the other Sannin and people need to stop being idiots acting like her support skills abilities don’t exist in fights, there’s more to this manga then 1V1 fights


To be fair on this board most of the time we are specifically referencing 1v1 battles tho 

Where like it or not her support skills arent terrible useful regardless of how good they may be


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## Trojan (Jan 31, 2018)

Bonly said:


> Genjutsu is underrated in general as people think being a certain lvl means one is unaffected which isn’t true


underrated?

itachi's fans think itachi will defeat all Kage-level characters with his finger Genjutsu because it worked against Naruto.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> Rinne obito>Kisame≥Nagato by @Troyse22 has to be one of the most controversial statements


Yeah...

Tho i personally wouldnt use that word to describe it...


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> DMS Kakashi<Naruto
> 
> Sasuke>DMS Kakashi
> 
> Naruto>Sasuke


No rock paper scissors  


Let's see what are mine 

All akatsuki members except dojutsu trio besides hidan border low and mid kage and are more less equal
Minato is a tier above Itachi
Early EMS Sasuke can beat Itachi + Kisame solo

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Bonly (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> To be fair on this board most of the time we are specifically referencing 1v1 battles tho
> 
> Where like it or not her support skills arent terrible useful regardless of how good they may be



There’s multiple threads that get done on a daily basis that are team up threads or threads that aren’t even match up which is what this place is for but ranking thread among others. That’s not a good excuse


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## narut0ninjafan (Jan 31, 2018)

Mine would be that Sasori is actually one of the weakest Akatsuki members

He's a lot more dangerous against fodders than the majority of Akatsuki of course, but in high tier matches he gets outclassed because his attacks aren't that strong, he has no defence, and he's a stationary fighter with poor speed (getting blitzed by a BoS Sakura multiple times is pretty embarrassing when you consider it in the context of the insane power inflation since his death)

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Charmed (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> 'll start: Healthy Itachi is not that different than the one we saw in the Manga. In fact in a 1 vs 1 match between healthy and sick Itachi, the former would win extreme diff and would be on his last legs. He would not defeat anyone his sick self would not.


Couldn't agree more with you Shark :')


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Hussain said:


> 28- *Susanoo's "shock waves" are overrated as fuck. They are incapable of "defeating" anyone.* At best, it will blow them away. But *by no means kills them.*



>Susanoo literally carves through mountains kilometers away from the susanoo...Often with such force the rock is super heated and melted upon impact...
>Incapable of killing anyone

I remind you all this is coming from the same guy who said...


Hussain said:


> All my facts / opinions

Reactions: Winner 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Bonly said:


> There’s multiple threads that get done on a daily basis that are team up threads or threads that aren’t even match up which is what this place is for but ranking thread among others


What im getting at is teh mentality of this place

As the majority of the threads here are about 1v1s...When it comes to overall ranking, thats what most people default to

As in context of posting here, thats the most accurate thing to do cuz thats whats asked about 90% of the time


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> No rock paper scissors


Yes rock paper scissors : moneypanda

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

Since the beginning of the manga Naruto has always been weaker than Sasuke and was playing catch up up until the middle of the war arc. With the exception of when he summoned Gamabunta.


Bonly said:


> Sannin are above Pain arc SM Naruto and MS Sasuke



Including Tsunade?


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## Bonly (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> What im getting at is teh mentality of this place
> 
> As the majority of the threads here are about 1v1s...When it comes to overall ranking, thats what most people default to
> 
> As in context of posting here, thats the most accurate thing to do cuz thats whats asked about 90% of the time




I know that’s the mentality, doesn’t change that their mentality is that of idiots imo


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## oiety (Jan 31, 2018)

Killer Bee>living Itachi, any one of the Sannin, likely your fav.
Mei is a Mid Kage with great  offense, instead of a Low Kage.
Both Gai and Kakashi are solid Mid Kages, not far from the Sannin tbqh.
Everyone in Akatsuki aside from Hidan and Zetsu is Mid Kage at very least.
When you take into consideration that Hebi Sasuke is like a double boss battle (given Oro popping out of him when exhausted) he's often underestimated, and even without Oro's influence he's still Kage level. 
Guruguru is a High Kage.
Sage Ranking list: SM Hashirama=>BSM Naruto(War)>>SM Kabuto=>War Arc SM Naruto>SM Jiraiya>Pein Arc SM Naruto.
Minato said he isn't good at Sage Mode, so I didn't include him.
Konan can make explosive tags with her jutsu.
Hiashi is at least an Elite Jonin.

I think that is all.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bonly (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> Including Tsunade?



She’s a Sannin so yeah I’d include her


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## Charmed (Jan 31, 2018)

Uhm I would go with:

1. The Sannin are all more or less on the same level, The weakest Sannin  while in base might be either Tsunade or Jiraiya.
But Jiraiya is the strongest Sannin when he enters SM. But without it I would Say Oro is the strongest Sannin.

2. Hanzo and Chiyo are around the same level.

3. The Akatsuki are not below the Sannin in terms of power, in fact:

Pain, Obito, Konan, Sasori and Itachi are above Sannin level, and are all High Kage.
Deidara, Kakuzu and Kisame are Sannin level but I would say the Akatsuki beat the Sannin more times than not.
Hidan is below Sannin level but he's still pretty strong and underrated.

4. Prime Hiruzen is Overrated.

5. 3rd Kazekage was indeed stronger than Hanzo couse Chiyo is Hanzo level.

6. Kurama is still like any other Biju when it doesn't have a Jinchuuriki. He's only stronger than all the other Biju because Naruto is his Jinchuuriki and back in the old days was being controled by Madara and Obito Uchiha.

7. Bijudama are very overrated, even more than the Sannin.

8. SM Jiraiya is still stronger than SM Naruto. SM Naruto apparently did better because he had full knowledge and was fighting a handicapped Pain.

9. Konan's 600 Billion Paper Jutsu doesn't need Prep. But High Kage and above have ways to survive that attack.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

Bonly said:


> She’s a Sannin so yeah I’d include her


You think Tsunade can beat SM Naruto and MS Sasuke?


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> You think Tsunade can beat SM Naruto and MS Sasuke?


Nah

Bonly rates people based on their contribution to battles and society overall

Hes likely including her support skills and economic contributions as leader of a nation

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Bonly (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> You think Tsunade can beat SM Naruto and MS Sasuke?



I don’t rank characters based off who they can or can’t beat as that’s the mindset of an idiot imo as there’s more then 1V1 combat to this manga. They would beat her more times then not

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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Nah
> 
> Bonly rates people based on their contribution to battles and society overall
> 
> Hes likely including her support skills and economic contributions as leader of a nation


That's not fair though.

"Tsunade is better in support than MS Sasuke and SM Naruto" is very different from "Tsunade > SM Naruto and MS Sasuke"


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Nah
> 
> Bonly rates people based on their contribution to battles and society overall
> 
> Hes likely including her support skills and economic contributions as leader of a nation





Bonly said:


> They would beat her more times then not


See @Shark ?

Called it

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## narut0ninjafan (Jan 31, 2018)

Tsunade was doing better against her Susanoo clones than any of the Kage besides Onoki so this idea that she's vastly inferior in direct combat just because she's a support type is pretty baseless

I would put the Sannin on around the same level in combat prowess as they've always been portrayed (with Jiraiya maybe a little higher than his teammates)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

narut0ninjafan said:


> Tsunade was doing better against her Susanoo clones than any of the Kage besides Onoki so this idea that she's vastly inferior in direct combat just because she's a support type is pretty baseless
> 
> I would put the Sannin on around the same level in combat prowess as they've always been portrayed (with Jiraiya maybe a little higher than his teammates)


You mean she is good in CQC and has amazing strength.


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

Charmed said:


> Konan's 600 Billion Paper Jutsu doesn't need Prep.


Why's that?


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## narut0ninjafan (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> You mean she is good in CQC and has amazing strength.



And she's good enough at those things to be considered a high tier fighter based on Kishi's portrayal of her character

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

narut0ninjafan said:


> And she's good enough at those things to be considered a high tier fighter based on Kishi's portrayal of her character


What is Kishi's portrayal of her character? You mean her handling the Susano'o because of her strength and CQC.


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

This is one more: Pre-war part II Kakashi is easily Kage-level.

Reactions: Like 1 | Neutral 1


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## Charmed (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> Why's that?


couse she never says she prepped that, and like I said most High Kage have a way to defend against that Jutsu, it's the Mid Kage and Low Kage that will die with that jutsu, that's why I think Konan is High Kage.

She didn't turn the entire lake into explosives, she only turned that specifc part of the lake which in AoE is nothing compared to Pain's CST or CT for example.
Think of Konan's 600 Billion Paper Explosives Jutsu as Pain's Chibaku Tensei (but way smaller), it's her ultimate jutsu, few people can survive it, but unlike Pain's CT, she gets tired after she uses it. Besides more charcters can survive Moses no Jutsu than CT.

So there's no reason to restrict Moses no jutsu.


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## Ultrafragor (Jan 31, 2018)

Oh, well let me just list every statement I've ever made about the Byakugan or a Hyuga:


Hyuuga Clan=Uchiha Clan when Madara is not included 
Neji would equal Itachi if Neji was not raised like a piece of fodder by his clan
Byakugan>Base Sharingan, it can see better in every physical dimension and it can break genjutsu easily with standard juken
The VWP Hiashi used on the juubi had comparable strength to a direct blow from Tsunade, many people and defenses would be broken by the force before you even consider that it's an attack meant to penetrate the skin and harm the chakra network 
Hiashi was conveniently not present during Pain's attack because, like Gai, he would easily flatten any of the Paths that he came across other than the Deva Path
Neji could fight BoS Sasuke and kill him if he laid hands on him
Kaguya breaking Sasuke's Susano'o with vacuum shells shows that basic juken jutsu hit hard enough to fight a Mangekyo, just like how her use of dead bone pulse shows kimimaro could break a Susano'o open, scaled down
Byakugan vision tracks motion so well that if A4 tried to blitz Hiashi with V2, Hiashi could still throw up a Kaiten fast enough to repel A


I'm sure there's more, but what I've put up should already be plenty inflammatory.

Reactions: Coolest Guy! 1


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## narut0ninjafan (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> What is Kishi's portrayal of her character? You mean her handling the Susano'o because of her strength and CQC.



That's she one of the Sannin who have always been portrayed as roughly equal to each other, and that she was fighting against Madara better than the majority of her other Kages

Saying she was doing well "because of her strength and CQC" doesn't really downplay her combat skill like you're trying to make it out to be. It just shows that Kishi considers those things enough to put her on par and above several high tier characters


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

narut0ninjafan said:


> That's she one of the Sannin who have always been portrayed as roughly equal to each other, and that she was fighting against Madara better than the majority of her other Kages
> 
> Saying she was doing well "because of her strength and CQC" doesn't really downplay her combat skill like you're trying to make it out to be. *It just shows that Kishi considers those things enough to put her on par and above several high tier characters*


Except it doesn't, what it does is show Tsunade fighting off Susano'o due to her having enough strength and CQC skill.

That does not "put her on par and above several high tier characters".

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Bookworm (Jan 31, 2018)

- Oro is far above the other Sannin with Edo Tensei

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## narut0ninjafan (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> Except it doesn't, what it does is show Tsunade fighting off Susano'o due to her having enough strength and CQC skill.
> 
> That does not "put her on par and above several high tier characters".



And having enough strength and CQC skill to fight them off are combat skills. Onoki didn't have the strength or CQC skill to fight off the Susanoo but he still managed to find a way around it

I think you're purposely ignoring the context of that fight


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## Blaze Release (Jan 31, 2018)

I think this has been done before, but here it goes.
1. Hanzo is nothing special and i believe all the sannins in their prime individually re stronger than him in his prime.
2. Tobirama is stronger than Minato
3. Prime Hiruzen is stronger than both tobirama and minato
4. Nindaime Mizukage is stronger or at worst equal to muu
5. Daikodan can overcome the bijuu dama, in some circumstances

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## MSAL (Jan 31, 2018)

Oh...I can see why the opinions here were well labelled as "being controversial and unpopular" having read the length of the thread. Sure, I'll join the fun, why not;

Here are six for starters;

*One* - Kimimaro and Itachi were nerfed with ninja aids because they would've been too much potential and would've been too strong if they were allowed to grow naturally (hey, the manga makes this clear, by killing off both characters at the point they would've/could've killed two main characters/important characters later in the series, before they reached that point).

*Two -  *If Neji and Sasuke had've met in the CE, Neji would've defeated Sasuke comfortably.

*Three* - Orochimaru is far stronger and has far more potential as a character (and villain) than Jiraiya.

*Four - * Hidan was more dangerous of an opponent to face than Kakuzu.
*
Five - *What the fuck is prime Hiruzen. He has far too many victories in matches against high level opponents, when  he is featless and it's based on hype and trying to translate his shown abilities into this hype, which seems unjustified.

*Six - *Itachi one of only characters to get ranked as high kage by many, yet he gets losses by many of that group against most other in that tier, in mid tier and sometimes even low...wtf..


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Wheres @Kyu at in here


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## Troyse22 (Jan 31, 2018)

Bonly said:


> Tobirama is on par with the Sannin at best
> 
> Speed is not an end all be all and slower characters can(and have) hit faster enemies multiple times in the manga
> 
> ...



Tobirama is on par?

Feats put him around Minato's level (arguments can be made for either being superior to the other)
Minato in turn would dumpster literally every Sannin, possibly 2 at once.

But sure, Tobirama is just equal to 'em

Speed?

Is that because speed counters literally every Sannin, including Tsunade, your widely known favorite?

Probably not right 

Tsunade is considerably slower than most kage levels. 

Oro>SM Jiraiya>Pein Arc SM Naruto=MS Sasuke>>>>Tsunade

Tsunade is in no way above Pein Arc SM Naruto or MS Sasuke, either would low diff her

Genjutsu is vastly overrated and can't be used in the NBD as it comes down to favoritism. 

Perfect Jins are NOT immune to genjutsu, but can break almost all
Tsunade is not equal to Jiraiya or Oro, nothing confirms this. Poorer feats, poor hype and poor portrayal. The other 2 are diverse, and their strongest forms are a force to be reckoned with. If she's your favorite (which ik she is) that's fine, but you cannot go around pretending she's equal to the other 2 JUST because they share the same title.

Lul'd at the masters not surpassing the Sannin by the war.

Last one could be true, although I believe FKS Sasuke>Pein Arc SM Naruto by a small degree, but they were hinted to be perfect equals.



Bonly said:


> I don’t rank characters based off who they can or can’t beat as that’s the mindset of an idiot imo as there’s more then 1V1 combat to this manga. They would beat her more times then not



Pein Arc SM Naruto and MS Sasuke beat far, far, far, far, far, far, far more opponents than Tsunade.


OT: My controversial NBD opinion?

Rinne Obito>Kisame>Nagato but I consider them peers, in a tier of their own between Demi God and High Kage which I call "Top tier" I don't believe either is negging the other, on the contrary, each pushes the one above them to max diff.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Coolest Guy! 1


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## Shazam (Jan 31, 2018)

Here's another unpopular opinion. *Sakura* _is one of the worst co-main characters in fiction_

friendzone, tease and ridicule the boy who cares about you
obsess about and stalk the other boy who doesn't even notice you most of the time
use emotional blackmail on boy 1, forcing him on a suicide mission to get back boy 2 who ran away with transsexual p*d*p****
attempt to force boy 2 into loving her by promising complete submission to him and then failing an attempt to stab him with a knife, getting herself knocked out in the process instead 
get _prego_ by him 
raise their daughter all alone by herself
let him leave for years to travel the world

Reactions: Like 5


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

jnikools said:


> Here's another unpopular opinion. *Sakura* _is one of the worst co-main characters in fiction_


No its not...

Ask literally any naruto fan without a tumblr account and they will tell you the same thing

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> >Susanoo literally carves through mountains kilometers away from the susanoo...Often with such force the rock is super heated and melted upon impact...
> >Incapable of killing anyone
> 
> I remind you all this is coming from the same guy who said...



So, did they kill the Gokage, Hashirama, Naruto...etc? Cuz I don't remember that happening?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Troyse22 (Jan 31, 2018)

Shark said:


> You mean she is good in CQC and has amazing strength.



There's more to CQC than being physically strong.

Being physically strong is meaningless if you can't hit your opponent, and Tsunade being notoriously slow isn't good in CQC without support

Oh, and another controversial opinion I have is that there's no difference between P1 Tsunade and War Tsunade.

People like to say "Hurrdurr Tsunade was rusty in P1"

Okay so did she get better sitting behind a desk filing paperwork?

I still firmly believe P1 Kabuto would be a match for Tsunade in CQC.


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## Troyse22 (Jan 31, 2018)

jnikools said:


> Here's another unpopular opinion. *Sakura* _is one of the worst co-main characters in fiction_
> 
> friendzone, tease and ridicule the boy who cares about you
> obsess about and stalk the other boy who doesn't even notice you most of the time
> ...



Sakura is garbage and not worth the air she breathes.

That's mine, and the general opinion in the NBD.

Imo Kishi should rewrite Naruto without Sakura.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Friendly 1


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## MSAL (Jan 31, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Sakura is garbage and not worth the air she breathes.
> 
> That's mine, and the general opinion in the NBD.
> 
> Imo Kishi should rewrite Naruto without Sakura.




I think Sakura had potential (in genjutsu  - which I thought would be an ability of hers, and because of her medical skills).  Instead, Kishi reverted to his crap type and made her a virtual clone of Tsunade.


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Hussain said:


> So, did they kill the Gokage, Hashirama, Naruto


Ah teh old "well it never killed anyone it faced on panel so it cant kill anyone period" argument

By that logic...

COFRS, TBBs, Kirin, Yagai, ETSB, Indras Arrow, and Rikudo FRS also cant kill anyone 

Also...


Madara wasnt even aiming at the Gokage with his shockwave...As he was sandbagging throughout their entire fight and him flexing PS was no different
Hashirama was using mokuton to block madaras attacks
Naruto was inside his Kurama avatar

What did you expect to happen in each instance

Reactions: Like 1


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 31, 2018)

Tsunade is the strongest of the Gokage.

Tobirama isn’t much stronger than the Sannin.

The Gokage eventually pushed Madara to his limit.

Old Hiruzen is a Low Kage, Prime Hiruzen is at best a High Kage.

Mei Terumi is a Mid Kage, and she’s stronger than Sasori and Deidara (and maybe Kakuzu too).

Hashirama isn’t that fast, he’s just excellent at close combat fighting. 

 Databook stats are just as important as feats/statements in hypothetical match-up discussions.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Jan 31, 2018)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Tsunade is the strongest of the Gokage





Godaime Tsunade said:


> Tobirama isn’t much stronger than the Sannin.





Godaime Tsunade said:


> The Gokage eventually pushed Madara to his limit.





Godaime Tsunade said:


> Prime Hiruzen is at best a High Kage.





Godaime Tsunade said:


> Mei Terumi is a Mid Kage, and she’s stronger than Sasori and Deidara (and maybe Kakuzu too).





Godaime Tsunade said:


> Hashirama isn’t that fast, he’s just excellent at close combat fighting.



This is actually one I agree with.

I'm not going to give him Minato/A4 levels of speed "just because he's Hashirama"



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Databook stats are just as important as feats/statements in hypothetical match-up discussions.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trojan (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Ah teh old "well it never killed anyone it faced on panel so it cant kill anyone period" argument
> 
> By that logic...
> 
> ...




You are trying to use make your ridiculous point sounds logical by putting irrelevant examples. 
Some of those did not hit anyone directly or even indirectly, and others hit immortal characters with insane recovery.

Meanwhile, the same cannot be said about the shockwaves. Asspulldara did use it against the Gokage, and they were sent flying, but they were not killed. He used it right on top of Hashirama's head, and he did not even get as much as a scratch. If the shockwaves were enough to kill, Hashirama would have been long dead.

likewise, Momoshiki who is even stronger than Asspulldara used a huge ass shockwave against the Gokage in the movie, did anyone of them die? Did not think so either. 




> Hashirama was using mokuton to block madaras attacks


He blocks the sword itself, not the shockwave. He also stopped one, the other one followed shortly thereafter.

The first sword was stopped

the second one was not


by your logic, Hashirama should have died here.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

jnikools said:


> *Sakura* _is one of the worst co-main characters in fiction_


It's one of the popular opinions tho

Reactions: Agree 2


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

MSAL said:


> Also [HASHTAG]#Rem4life[/HASHTAG]

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

Hussain said:


> You are trying to use make your ridiculous point sounds logical by putting irrelevant examples


>This kid says an attack that no diffs mountain ranges from kilometers away cant kill people whos best feat is being suceptible to kunai damage
>Calls my point that they can "ridiculous" 

CAn you say "lost cause" ?

I can

And i am

Consider this my last reply to you bud

If youre this far gone im not even gonna attempt to show you reason


Hussain said:


> Some of those did not hit anyone directly or even indirectly


NEITHER DID IT IN ANY OF YOUR EXAMPLES

Dude the double standards 


Hussain said:


> Asspulldara did use it against the Gokage, and they were sent flying, but they were not killed


Because it didnt even hit them directly 

They were in front of his susanoo by several hundred feet while he swung his blade to the side...Which is (shocker) where the shockwave also goes 

And they were STILL blown tf back regardless


Hussain said:


> e used it right on top of Hashirama's head, and he did not even get as much as a scratch


Hashirama caught the blade with mokuton fists and cancelled out their force

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## MSAL (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


>




I think you're just jelly because Rem had far more chemistry with Subaru than Emilia could even dream, and that she's a fan favourite. [HASHTAG]#Rem4life[/HASHTAG]


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

narut0ninjafan said:


> And having enough strength and CQC skill to fight them off are combat skills.


Agreed. This is what that fight implied: Tsunade is strong and is good in CQC.


> Onoki didn't have the strength or CQC skill to fight off the Susanoo but he still managed to find a way around it
> 
> I think you're purposely ignoring the context of that fight


Susano'o vs Kages:

Tsunade: held her own by using her CQC and strength
Raikage: held his own for a bit but is not as strong as Tsunade and was eventually caught off-guard
Gaara: Managed to protect himself *and *Mei with his sand.

This is what the Kage had to offer vs a chakra construct that is physically strong. Those are the events and those are the feats.

"Tsunade outdoing the Kages" is actually "Tsunade has physical strength and CQC to contend with Susano'o that other Kages don't".

That's all, the rest is stretching.


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## Bonly (Jan 31, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Tobirama is on par?
> 
> Feats put him around Minato's level (arguments can be made for either being superior to the other)
> Minato in turn would dumpster literally every Sannin, possibly 2 at once.
> ...


I put the Sannin on the same lvl as Minato as well. He's at the top and they are at the bottom alongside Tobi so saying he's on Minato's lvl doesn't mean much to me.



> Speed?
> 
> Is that because speed counters literally every Sannin, including Tsunade, your widely known favorite?
> 
> Probably not right



What's Kisame's best movement speed feat as in moving from point A to point B? Last time I check he doesn't have anything impressive but I'm pretty sure you'd still say he would win fights right? Yes you would. What's Kinkaku and Ginkaku speed feats like? Didn't those two beat someone who was known as the worlds fastest man in the past? Yes they did. What's Gengetsu's speed feats again? Didn't he end up fighting Mu to a draw after years of Mu trying to get to his lvl? Yup. Hidan was keeping up with Kakashi yet couldn't lolblitz Shika and ended up being dodged and played. And there's so many more examples but yup speed is the end all be all amiright?



> Tsunade is considerably slower than most kage levels.



Cool headcanon. To bad the manga doesn't support it.



> Oro>SM Jiraiya>Pein Arc SM Naruto=MS Sasuke>>>>Tsunade



Nope. Sannin are equal and above the two of them.



> Tsunade is in no way above Pein Arc SM Naruto or MS Sasuke, either would low diff her



Yup still above her.



> Genjutsu is vastly overrated and can't be used in the NBD as it comes down to favoritism.



Sorry but your "Genjutsu is plot" holds no water to cry and say it's overrated. Manga has constantly showed otherwise so I'll stick with that rather then you going "well I don't like how it's been used so no!!"




> Tsunade is not equal to Jiraiya or Oro, nothing confirms this. Poorer feats, poor hype and poor portrayal. The other 2 are diverse, and their strongest forms are a force to be reckoned with. If she's your favorite (which ik she is) that's fine, but you cannot go around pretending she's equal to the other 2 JUST because they share the same title.



Jiraiya is my fave of the three, just because I chose to not ignore Tsunade feats and downplay her like you do and other, that doesn't mean she's my favorite. 

Poorer feats? What feats does Jiraiya or Orochi have to suggest they can save multiple people from Pain's CST like Tsunade did? What physical feats does Jiraiya or Orochi have to suggest they can destroy Madara's ribcage Susanoo with a kick? What feats of creating poison does Jiraiya have that matches Tsunade which fucked him up? What feats of constantly countering the poison of a poison master does either of the other two have? Tsunade has feats of knocking out Orochi and then forcing him to run away, does Jiraiya have that feat? Nope. Does Orochi have a feat beating Tsunade in battle? Nope. Does Orochi or Jiraiya have the feat of breaking six ribs, both his arms, and rupturing several of his internal organs of another Sannin like Tsunade does? Nope. 

Poor portrayal? She was portrayed as the reason Konoha won the second great ninja world. When was the other two given credit for winning a war again? She was portrayed as the strongest Kunoichi and called such more then once. When was the last time the other two was outright called the strongest anything again? She portrayed as having the same type of healing as Hashi which is top tier. Which of the other two having anything comparable to Hashi jutsu wise again? Tsunade was portrayed as the greatest in her field and it was stated. Was Jiraiya or Orochi stated to be the greatest in anything?

That's just some things. You may not like Tsunade but to say her feats and portrayal don't match up is you ignoring multiple factual statements/feats she has/done in the manga either due to your dislike of her character or you not liking her type of feats.



> Lul'd at the masters not surpassing the Sannin by the war.



Lul'd at the master surpassing the Sannin by the war.



> Last one could be true, although I believe FKS Sasuke>Pein Arc SM Naruto by a small degree, but they were hinted to be perfect equals.



By the time Sasuke starting to get the higher stages of Susanoo he was going blind and by the time he unlocked his final stage he lost the use of his Sharingan and MS abilities. In-story wise Naruto is ahead since he was the same while Sasuke lost what he had.



> Pein Arc SM Naruto and MS Sasuke beat far, far, far, far, far, far, far more opponents than Tsunade.



Can Naruto or Sasuke save as many people as Tsunade did during Pain's attack? What can either of the two do about saving people when it comes to CST? Can either of the two help in taking out 25 Susanoo clones in one shot? Can either of the two help a fucked up Onoki and Gaara out and then take on Madara? Can either of the two counter the poison of a poison master constantly through war?

Again there's more then 1V1 fighting. By your logic Chunin exam arc Shikamaru is stronger then Neji and Naruto and Sasuke because he was promoted to Chunin and they weren't so since everything is 1V1 he's better right? I also guess this means you think Pain arc Kakashi is above Pain Arc Sage Mode Naruto because Kakashi's name was brought up to be Hokage and not Naruto's after the Pain's attack and then Kakashi was chosen to be Hokage after Danzo's death? Because clearly the manga portrays it as purely 1V1 combat amiright?

Sorry but Tsunade's better then them whether you like it or not.


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

MSAL said:


> I think you're just jelly because Rem had far more chemistry with Subaru than Emilia could even dream, and that she's a fan favourite.


You know what will happen in the end tho 


And Subaru did choose the best girl either way


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## MSAL (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> You know what will happen in the end tho
> 
> 
> And Subaru did choose the best girl either way




I do actually know what happens next, as I have read the LN. 

That's why I'll just leave this here for your thoughts....[HASHTAG]#Rem4life[/HASHTAG]


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## Braiyan (Jan 31, 2018)

7th Gate Gai is faster than V2 A
Gai breached Madara's Susano'o with Hirudora
Kamui GG is a legit strategy when talking about War Arc Kakashi (not in the sense that he will open any fight with it, but that he can decide to use it if the situation calls for it, and not many characters can do anything about it if he did)
Gai in Gates >>> Kakashi
A Sasuke with Danzo fight MS mastery could beat any of the Sannin
Jiraiya is the weakest Sage
Hiashi could beat some of the average Akatsuki members, like Kakuzu and (with knowledge of poison) Sasori
Onoki >> Hiruzen (and on a related note, Jinton's charge time is exaggerated)
8th Gate Gai was either pressuring Madara too much for him to use Limbo, or he was too arrogant to bring it out before it was too late, which leads to my next point:
Madara's arrogance is such a crippling character flaw that he could be beaten before bringing out his big guns if faced against the wrong opponent (examples include letting Onoki graze him with Jinton, standing around whilst his clones took on the kages with Susano'o, deciding fighting Hashirama was more important than taking the Juubi out of Obito, Night Gai, his entire fight vs Naruto and Sasuke), and is why I sometimes find Perfect Susano'o GG arguments a bit funny


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

MSAL said:


> I do actually know what happens next, as I have read the LN.
> 
> That's why I'll just leave this here for your thoughts....[HASHTAG]#Rem4life[/HASHTAG]


I think I read it  till VL 9 I guess  
Well let's see what Intersting developments do occur.  

But Emilia will still be the best girl

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## MSAL (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> I think I read it  till VL 9 I guess
> Well let's see what Intersting developments do occur.
> 
> But Emilia will still be the best girl




Wait till you catch up then.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> But Emilia will still be the best girl


Emilia disagrees


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 31, 2018)

MSAL said:


> I do actually know what happens next, as I have read the LN.





The_Conqueror said:


> I think I read it till VL 9 I guess


Where do read them?


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## MSAL (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Where do read them?



Mailed xD


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## Troyse22 (Jan 31, 2018)

Bonly said:


> I put the Sannin on the same lvl as Minato as well.



Ah.

Y'know before this Bonly, I would have never pegged you as a Sannin wanker

A Tsunade wanker sure, but this to me confirms I can put you in the same boat as Mithos and Turrin



Bonly said:


> What's Kisame's best movement speed feat as in moving from point A to point B? Last time I check he doesn't have anything impressive but I'm pretty sure you'd still say he would win fights right? Yes you would. What's Kinkaku and Ginkaku speed feats like? Didn't those two beat someone who was known as the worlds fastest man in the past? Yes they did. What's Gengetsu's speed feats again? Didn't he end up fighting Mu to a draw after years of Mu trying to get to his lvl? Yup. Hidan was keeping up with Kakashi yet couldn't lolblitz Shika and ended up being dodged and played. And there's so many more examples but yup speed is the end all be all amiright?



Haven't I said like a million times that Kisame isn't a speedster?

Fast in CQC per feats
No notable Shunshin feats.

Kinkaku and Ginkaku could go V2 IIrc
I don't recall gengetsu's speed feats

Hidan v Shikamaru was done quickly for plot, listen to some of Kishi's interviews and you might actually learn something

Had to asspull something QUICK, and in his own words wanted Hidan to be much, much more powerful.

Certainly not a Shinobi that would lose to Shikamaru 1v1 



Bonly said:


> Cool headcanon. To bad the manga doesn't support it



And where are her speed feats proving she's A4 level in speed?



Bonly said:


> Sannin are equal and above the two of them.



The only claim to equality Tsunade has is the title

Nothing more

If they didn't share the title, your claim would hold absolutely no basis

Let the Sannin name shower you in bias



Bonly said:


> Sorry but your "Genjutsu is plot" holds no water to cry and say it's overrated. Manga has constantly showed otherwise so I'll stick with that rather then you going "well I don't like how it's been used so no!!"



So what exactly stops Itachi from gging literally anyone not god tier bar perfect jins or Powerful Sharingan or MS



Bonly said:


> Poorer feats? What feats does Jiraiya or Orochi have to suggest they can save multiple people from Pain's CST like Tsunade did? What physical feats does Jiraiya or Orochi have to suggest they can destroy Madara's ribcage Susanoo with a kick? What feats of creating poison does Jiraiya have that matches Tsunade which fucked him up? What feats of constantly countering the poison of a poison master does either of the other two have? Tsunade has feats of knocking out Orochi and then forcing him to run away, does Jiraiya have that feat? Nope. Does Orochi have a feat beating Tsunade in battle? Nope. Does Orochi or Jiraiya have the feat of breaking six ribs, both his arms, and rupturing several of his internal organs of another Sannin like Tsunade does? Nope.



Support capability =/= combat prowess

She's the best support of the three no doubt

Jiraiya kicked a path so hard it blinded him
Jiraiya kicked a path so hard the path made a crater in the wall
Oro restrained Itachi's Susanoo (momentarily)
Oro kicked down a tree
Oro momentarily incapped KN4 Naruto

Creating a poison that has to be consumed orally does not mean you're good in combat
Oro is also immune 

What feats does Tsunade have indicating she can restrain V4 Susanoo?
What feats does Tsunade have indicating she can bla bla bla

Could make a list of all their individual feats, all excel in different areas, it just so happens Tsunade's is medic/support

She has little relevance against serious opponents mid kage level+

And stop transfering Katsuyu's feats to Tsunade, acting like anything Katsuyu can do Tsunade can.

It's stupid and cringy



Bonly said:


> Poor portrayal? She was portrayed as the reason Konoha won the second great ninja world. When was the other two given credit for winning a war again? She was portrayed as the strongest Kunoichi and called such more then once. When was the last time the other two was outright called the strongest anything again? She portrayed as having the same type of healing as Hashi which is top tier. Which of the other two having anything comparable to Hashi jutsu wise again? Tsunade was portrayed as the greatest in her field and it was stated. Was Jiraiya or Orochi stated to be the greatest in anything?



Didn't save her bro from dying did it?
Didn't save Dan from dying did it?
Being called the strongest Kunoichi is hardly impressive, considering the only Kunoichi between low kage and god tier+ is Sakura 

Orochimaru was considered the strongest by Jiraiya, and a genius
Cool she can heal

She also has no combat prowess

Jiraiya was stated to be the greatest sage until Naruto surpassed him

Jiraiya (whether I like it or not) was the reason the Akatsuki held back on capturing Naruto in P1
Orochimaru was considered by the Akatsuki to pose a serious threat to them 

Akatsuki as a group>Konoha

She can protect the village if she wants, Jiraiya was considered powerful enough in P1 to hold back the Akatsuki.

Oro is top tier in healing btw, moreso than Tsunade

Oral Rebirth>Byakugo in healing capability on self



Bonly said:


> That's just some things. You may not like Tsunade but to say her feats and portrayal don't match up is you ignoring multiple factual statements/feats she has/done in the manga either due to your dislike of her character or you not liking her type of feats.



I actually don't mind Tsunade, but im not gonna be a close minded fool and put her on the other 2 Sannin's level JUST because they share the same title

That's pure wanking. It would be like someone putting ALL Akatsuki on the same level JUST because they share the same name

Sounds stupid right?
That's how "All Sannin are equal durrdurrdurr" sounds to me



Bonly said:


> Lul'd at the master surpassing the Sannin by the war.



Lets see

Gai's feat: Incapping and then KO'ing one of the strongest Akatsuki members in 2 shots
Kakashi's feat: Kamuing off GM's arm so fast not even Mads knew wtf happened

Jiraiya's feat: At least pushing Pein to low-mid diff
Orochimaru's feat: Contending with Itachi's V4 Susanoo
Tsunade's feat: Assisting the other kage in their battle against Mads.

Gai's and Kakashi's feats are certainly comparable to the 2 top Sannin, and exceed Tsunade's best feats by an impressive margin

I could list EVERY feat they have, but it gets dull

Also

Pushing JJ Mads with 7th Gate>Literally anything any Sannin has EVER done EVER



Just read that you base tier placement on support capabilities (literally nonsense you do to put Tsunade unjustly higher up when you know her combat capability is low kage level)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SakuraLover16 (Jan 31, 2018)

Oh, I have lots of these!!!
A character having more speed does not mean they automatically win fights.
Sakura and Tsunade aren't slow and even if they were they have the capabilities of defeating faster fighters anyways.
The Sannin are EQUAL they are all in the same tier. Orochimaru defeats Jiraiya, Jiraiya defeats Tsunade, Tsunade defeats Orochimaru.
Just because its possible to snipe someone's head off doesn't mean that law works in the Naruto-verse because it has never happened.
Jiraiya has said that Tsunade's medical jutsu and combat were unrivaled so why he say it if it wasn't true?
Sakura has the most character development out of all the females and her character theme changes the most.
Honestly, Sakura's character isn't that bad just flawed.


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Where do read them?


Actually didn't find it now.  It's been a long time 
I found a better light novel at that time


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 31, 2018)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Sakura has the most character development out of all the females


More like
Sakura first introduced - Regression - Progression- And Regression
 
There was hardly any character development.  She ended up with same mindset in chapter 699 as she had in the very chapter she was introduced


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## Kyu (Jan 31, 2018)

Itachi > SM Jiraiya(which is weird since 4 years ago most agreed Itachi beats him more often than not)
Itachi's stamina issues are overblown
Post 571 KCM has an easier path to victory versus Minato than Bijuu Mode does.
Prime Hiruzen/Prime Hanzo > Minato in hype & arguably portrayal
Overall the Sannin > 7G Gai and MS Kakashi
Kimimaro is overrated as shit and gets violated by any kage worth two drops of piss




jnikools said:


> Here's another unpopular opinion. *Sakura* _is one of the worst co-main characters in fiction_


​

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## SakuraLover16 (Jan 31, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> More like
> Sakura first introduced - Regression - Progression- And Regression
> 
> There was hardly any character development.  She ended up with same mindset in chapter 699 as she had in the very chapter she was introduced


Actually, there was her motivation to get stronger was due to always depending on Naruto and Sasuke. At first, she didn't really care for anything but her looks but then she realized how flawed that was and wanted to be better. She has also shown a bit of development in Boruto when she first went to check on her child without batting an eye at Sasuke. Her theme also changed. If anything versus someone who was just about revenge the whole story.


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## Isaiah13000 (Jan 31, 2018)

Wow... a lot of the opinions here really are controversial. Anyway, here are mine.

I've seen a *lot* and I do mean a *LOT* of excuses (I can name several) used to downplay how strong Jiraiya is, and I still see many of them even now, but my opinion that Jiraiya is one of the most powerful high kage tiers still remains.
Itachi is overrated, he is not nearly as strong as people make him out to be. He is not on Minato's level, nor is he above Tobirama's, both of them are comfortably above him. Itachi is on the same level as chars like SM Jiraiya, Pain Arc SM Naruto, and Five Kage Summit Arc MS Sasuke.
Orochimaru is stronger than Mu, Gengetsu, and A3 and has the greatest potential out of all of the Sannin.
The Sannin are all a tier above the Masters, the Masters only briefly surpass them with their Eighth Gate/DMS incarnations.
The Masters are low-end mid kage levels, they are on the same level as mid tier Akatsuki members, and far below the dojutsu trio.
War Arc Kakashi is overrated.
War Arc Gaara is stronger than A.
Tsunade is stronger than A3.
Prime Hanzo is a top tier character.
Kinkaku and Ginkaku with all five tools are top tier characters.
War Arc Sakura is stronger than A3.
Hiruzen even while old, as long as you take into account P2 power scaling, is low-end high kage/high-end mid kage (depending on your own tier list) and is stronger than all mid tier Akatsuki members and the Masters.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2 | Neutral 1


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## Kisame (Jan 31, 2018)

Ribcage-Susano'o Sasuke is easily stronger than Raikage 1v1 in a fair fight.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Bonly (Jan 31, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Ah.
> 
> Y'know before this Bonly, I would have never pegged you as a Sannin wanker
> 
> A Tsunade wanker sure, but this to me confirms I can put you in the same boat as Mithos and Turrin



Yes you would have because you saw my tier list a few months ago which had them all as High Kage lvl



> Haven't I said like a million times that Kisame isn't a speedster?
> 
> Fast in CQC per feats
> No notable Shunshin feats.
> ...



1) So Kisame is slow. Then why doesn't everyone just lolblitz him? Is it because isn't all that big of a factor outside of the people that specialize in speed?
2) It was noted that they go V2 when one of the two gets beaten upon which neither bro was beat. So what speed feats do they have in base?
3) Doesn't matter if Kishi wanted him to be much much much stronger, end result is him being at said lvl so again speed blitz hurr durr didn't happened. Though if you wanna play the interview card then why do you ignore the interview where Kishi said he wanted Tsunade to fight Deva path but chose not to because his editors wanted Naruto to fight him and he said that Tsunade would land a punch and do to much damage? 
4) If you don't recall his speed feats it's because he doesn't have any and yet he didn't just get lolblitzed.



> And where are her speed feats proving she's A4 level in speed?



Oh yeah I forgot that if someone isn't as fast as someone who specializes in speed that means she's automatically slow. Do you know what the word average means?



> The only claim to equality Tsunade has is the title
> 
> Nothing more
> 
> ...



Manga>>>>>>>> Your opinion. 

Kishi says "Hey they're equal" constantly throughout the manga and even goes to compare the three together well into part two but somehow there's no basis. I guess this means that Kisame doesn't have the highest amount of chakra in the Akatsuki despite his chakra volume constantly being mentioned in part two simple because his feats without absorbed chakra aren't as impressive as Obito's and Nagato's right? Or now are you gonna accept what Kishi portrays because it's in favor of Kisame?



> So what exactly stops Itachi from gging literally anyone not god tier bar perfect jins or Powerful Sharingan or MS



What stops Kisame from easily winning any/all fights with Daikodan? What stops Danzo from using Koto to beat Madara or Hashi thus being above them? Are you gonna say Kisame+Danzo over both Hashi and Madara now? See how that works? 

For whatever reason you just can't seem to grasp the very simple idea that Genjutsu itself doesn't have to GG someone. For whatever reason you just can't seem to grasp the very simple idea that Genjutsu itself can be used to create a small opening that can help someone in a fight. Once you grasp that very simple idea and then see how Kishi constantly goes out his way to show how dangerous Genjutsu can be(shitting on Orochi with it, Kabuto actually closing his eye lids to prevent the risk for example) then you can finally see that Genjutsu here is underrated when everyone and there moms can easily avoid it and fight perfectly fine. You just need to stop being closed minded and think Genjutsu with always have to be a GG to see how underrated it is.



> Support capability =/= combat prowess
> 
> She's the best support of the three no doubt



Combat prowess means prowess in combat. Last time I checked Tsunade was in combat when she boosted Onoki's Jinton did she not? Then that means her support capabilities can indeed be apart of combat prowess. Again just because you don't like what Tsunade can do in combat, that doesn't mean I'm gonna ignore it.



> Jiraiya kicked a path so hard it blinded him
> Jiraiya kicked a path so hard the path made a crater in the wall
> Oro restrained Itachi's Susanoo (momentarily)
> Oro kicked down a tree
> Oro momentarily incapped KN4 Naruto



None of those come close to destroy a version of Susanoo let alone blowing a hole in a person like Tsunade did. 



> Creating a poison that has to be consumed orally does not mean you're good in combat
> Oro is also immune



So the answer is no, Jiraiya can't do that but Tsunade can do.



> What feats does Tsunade have indicating she can restrain V4 Susanoo?
> What feats does Tsunade have indicating she can bla bla bla



Orochi never restrained V4 Susanoo



> Could make a list of all their individual feats, all excel in different areas, it just so happens Tsunade's is medic/support
> 
> She has little relevance against serious opponents mid kage level+



Tsunade smacked Orochi and forced him to leave. Tsunade's been in all of two fights and you want to downplay her fight against Madara? Aren't you the one who's constantly crying " I prove something then you say prove it but don't use that example" and then proceed to tell people to fuck off? Yet now you do the same.



> And stop transfering Katsuyu's feats to Tsunade, acting like anything Katsuyu can do Tsunade can.
> 
> It's stupid and cringy



Only stupid and cringy thing here is your ignorance. Is Katsuyu Tsunade's summon? Yes or no? If so then that means anything Katsuyu can do works for Tsunade as she can summon her. Or do we now discount any/all things that a summon brings to the table when mentioning what the summoner can do as well now?



> Didn't save her bro from dying did it?
> Didn't save Dan from dying did it?



Did she have said healing jutsu when they died? Nope so your point doesn't matter here, not that it would as Byakugo works on herself which is the same as Hashi's.

[QUOTE[Being called the strongest Kunoichi is hardly impressive, considering the only Kunoichi between low kage and god tier+ is Sakura [/QUOTE]

Again when was the last time Jiraiya or Orochi was called the strongest anything? Just because you don't find it impressive that doesn't magically mean it's not, that's Kishi portrayal of her at a high lvl whether you like it or not.



> Orochimaru was considered the strongest by Jiraiya, and a genius
> Cool she can heal
> 
> She also has no combat prowess



Jiraiya never said such about Orochi. Jiraiya did on the otherhand say that Tsunade is unrivaled in battle which does invole combat prowess and we see her combat prowess when she knocks out Orochi and is destroying Susanoo but hey lets just sweep all that under the rug and ignore it right?



> Jiraiya was stated to be the greatest sage until Naruto surpassed him
> 
> Jiraiya (whether I like it or not) was the reason the Akatsuki held back on capturing Naruto in P1
> Orochimaru was considered by the Akatsuki to pose a serious threat to them



Jiraiya was never said to be the greatest Sage, that would go to the actually Sage himself. Itachi had Orochi done for.



> Akatsuki as a group>Konoha
> 
> She can protect the village if she wants, Jiraiya was considered powerful enough in P1 to hold back the Akatsuki.



So Jiraiya forced Kisame to not try him? 



> Oro is top tier in healing btw, moreso than Tsunade
> 
> Oral Rebirth>Byakugo in healing capability on self



Byakugo>Oral rebirth. One was on par with Hashi's jutsu and hyped to be the best and it wasn't oral rebirth.



> I actually don't mind Tsunade, but im not gonna be a close minded fool and put her on the other 2 Sannin's level JUST because they share the same title
> 
> That's pure wanking. It would be like someone putting ALL Akatsuki on the same level JUST because they share the same name
> 
> ...



No you are being close minded. No one has said she's on the same lvl simply based on title alone, everyone who says such brings up her feats. You just ignore them and say "Oh well that's support" "No combat prowess" while trying to downplay what she has done in combat.



> Lets see
> 
> Gai's feat: Incapping and then KO'ing one of the strongest Akatsuki members in 2 shots
> Kakashi's feat: Kamuing off GM's arm so fast not even Mads knew wtf happened



Gai didn't beat Itachi or Obito or Pain so he didn't beat one of the strongest Akatsuki members
Cool for Kakashi, that's not better then what the Sannin have done sadly.



> Jiraiya's feat: At least pushing Pein to low-mid diff
> Orochimaru's feat: Contending with Itachi's V4 Susanoo
> Tsunade's feat: Assisting the other kage in their battle against Mads.



Jiraiya actually made Pain admit that if Jiraiya had knowledge in that fight then he would've lost.
Orochi easily got beat by V4 Susanoo Itachi while he was moments from his death so
Tsunade feat was actually blowing a hole in Madara and destroyed his ribcage Susanoo with a kick. 



> Gai's and Kakashi's feats are certainly comparable to the 2 top Sannin, and exceed Tsunade's best feats by an impressive margin
> 
> I could list EVERY feat they have, but it gets dull



Lol neither of the Masters feats are comparable to the Sannin, they're below them until we get their end game power up/Mode.



> Also
> 
> Pushing JJ Mads with 7th Gate>Literally anything any Sannin has EVER done EVER



Gai didn't pressure Madara with the 7th Gate as Madara easily stopped him and put him down. Might as well claim Hinata was pushing Deva path lol



> Just read that you base tier placement on support capabilities (literally nonsense you do to put Tsunade unjustly higher up when you know her combat capability is low kage level)



Hey if you wanna hate on Tsunade then do you bruh. I'm not an idiot so I'm gonna ignore all the abilities Kishi gave her and pretend that aren't part of her overall lvl. Just like how I don't ignore how Kishi made sure to point out that moving up a rank isn't simple about 1V1 fighting but hey you do you and ignore Kishi


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## Zero890 (Jan 31, 2018)

SM Jiraiya> Pain
SM Hashi> 8th Gates Gai

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## Marvel (Jan 31, 2018)

1. SM Naruto is not stronger than SM Jirayia
2.Hokage Kakashi is stronger than Horuzen and I still very underrated and should still be just as powerful as his war arc self with less reaction speed and more chakra and stamina without the sharingan
3.War Arc Rock Lee is Top Tier Low Kage and can destroy Hebi Saskue
4.DMS Kakashi is Top 5 Strongest Narutoverse Characters
5.CE Neji could beat CE Garaa
7.7th Gate Gai could beat 80% of the narutoverse with his Island Busting Hirouduara
8.Tsunade is actually pretty fast.
9.Base Hokage Naruto rivals Hashirama in power

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## wooly Eullerex (Jan 31, 2018)

- the only ninja worth mentioning that Gaara can beat is Gengetsu
-juugo is not a ninja
-konan beats muu, deidara, kakashi, gai & gengetsu more times than not
- hiashi beats war arc kakashi & mei more times than not
-Tsunade cannot beat sasori, poison or not
-sasori beats gaara & tobirama more times than not
-choji can beat kisame
-yamato beats kitsuchi & darui more times than not
-mount.sandwich & kirikiri.no.Mai are not a threat to any elite jounin or kage
-3rd raikage can potentially be 1-shot by Mei, Kiba, Mifune, the Kusanagi, Danzo-Baku & more

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Tri (Feb 1, 2018)

War arc Gaara can defeat all 3 of the sannin individually in the desert.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Funny 1


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## Santoryu (Feb 1, 2018)

Trizalgia said:


> War arc Gaara can defeat all 3 of the sannin individually in the desert.



I believe this view is quite popular

Reactions: Informative 1


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## The_Conqueror (Feb 1, 2018)

Levi Ackerman said:


> Base Hokage Naruto rivals Hashirama in power


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

Kisame's 30% clone has enough chakra to perform waterdome, Daikodan, 1000 sharks, etc.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## NightingaleOfShadows (Feb 1, 2018)

Konan is top 3-4 Akatsuki, I would say she can beat Itachi 1v1 but in portrayal hes slightly superior as he was only 21 when he died while Konan was 35 so he had great potential and he was called a genuis in the manga so that imo gives him a slight boost but Konan with doujutsu is able to deal with such power (Kamui, yes even w/o paper ocean), I kinda find it funny that Itachi fan boys say oh if Konan can do it Itachi can, yet when they debate for him they say Itachi can use the same tactic Konan did, which was to use explosives for Kmaui, like if you hating on Konan why you using the same tactic she did?

Itachi is quite overrated, people see him on the same lvl as Obito, Minato, Tobirama, etc when I see him on the same lvl as SM Jiraiya which is low high kage while the other characters above are mid high to high high kage

ill post more later

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Shazam (Feb 1, 2018)

Younger Chiyo who fought Hanzo = Sasori
BoS Sakura's 'evasion' skills are no better than the rest of her class 
Kakashi has more raw talent than Itachi (when taking away Kekki Genkai)
Minato is the _purest talented _ninja in the series who didn't receive a KG or reincarnation gifts

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

All Akatsuki are "kage level" with the *possible* exception of Hidan.


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## Troyse22 (Feb 1, 2018)

Trizalgia said:


> War arc Gaara can defeat all 3 of the sannin individually in the desert.



Oro is the only one who Gaara, desert or no, absolutely cannot beat

Can just burrow through his sand.


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## The Great One (Feb 1, 2018)

Base Naruto = Sasuke in physical stats.

If you are going to bring Sasuke's mountain level punches in BTM then I'm going to bring Base Naruto in last tanking Continent level attack while unconscious or Adult Sasuke needing Ameno to blitz kid Shin etc.

Also VOTE 2 was garbage with nothing but Sasuke wank.

If Sasuke > Base Naruto then why even make a Base Naruto vs EMS/Rinnegan Sasuke taijutsu fight? like when Naruto even went to fight in Base after getting KCM.

When Sasuke's fire jutsu pressured SPSM Naruto in Manga again?

Hell SP even gave Sasuke a Kurama Avatar to one shot.

Amaterasu vs Kyuubi chakra : In Manga Naruto threw away Amaterasu while in Anime Naruto had to discard his kyuubi chakra along with amaterasu.

In Anime we have Sasuke punching Naruto like dozen times while in Manga Sasuke punches Naruto like 3 times and gets a headbutt during 4th.


Aftermath Manga version.


Anime version.
We have a clean face Sasuke while Naruto with a ugly black eye.


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## 1yesman9 (Feb 1, 2018)

narut0ninjafan said:


> Tsunade was doing better against her Susanoo clones than any of the Kage besides Onoki so this idea that she's vastly inferior in direct combat just because she's a support type is pretty baseless
> 
> I would put the Sannin on around the same level in combat prowess as they've always been portrayed (with Jiraiya maybe a little higher than his teammates)



I don't agree that Tsunade did better against Susanoo clones than other Kage. She has 1 panel of landing an attack on 1 from behind with no context, before fainting and distracting Raikage. I rate her second worse performance under both Gaara & Raikage, Gaara who could protect Mei & himself, and Raikage who could CQC with them and needed to be distracted and genjutsu'd.


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## narut0ninjafan (Feb 1, 2018)

1yesman9 said:


> I don't agree that Tsunade did better against Susanoo clones than other Kage. She has 1 panel of landing an attack on 1 from behind with no context, before fainting and distracting Raikage. I rate her second worse performance under both Gaara & Raikage, Gaara who could protect Mei & himself, and Raikage who could CQC with them and needed to be distracted and genjutsu'd.



Where is this fanfiction of her fainting coming from? She's the only one (apart from Onoki) shown doing any damage and the only one who isn't shown cornered/surrounded by the clones. She was obviously doing better than Mei/Gaara/A

If a split second distraction was enough for Raikage to get gangraped by the clones he obviously wasn't doing as well as Tsunade against them, since they couldn't do the same thing to her while she was taking the swords out of her and doubling over in pain


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## FlamingRain (Feb 1, 2018)

Raikage couldn't actually do anything to Susano'o, unlike Tsunade, and it's Raikage's fault for letting himself get distracted while he was "pinned" in the first place. Gaara got floored the moment he tried to assist Mei and admitted that the clones were too strong for him to keep fighting, again unlike Tsunade and more like Mei.

Tsunade and Ohnoki were the only ones who could afford to pay attention to another Kage, and Ohnoki was the only one who could actually assist another Kage without being overwhelmed (Tsunade didn't have the range to do it). At the same time Ohnoki didn't have the stamina to carry on as long as Tsunade would have been able to...

So either Tsunade or Ohnoki did the best, followed by either Raikage or Gaara, and then Mei.


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## 1yesman9 (Feb 1, 2018)

narut0ninjafan said:


> Where is this fanfiction of her fainting coming from? She's the only one (apart from Onoki) shown doing any damage and the only one who isn't shown cornered/surrounded by the clones. She was obviously doing better than Mei/Gaara/A
> 
> If a split second distraction was enough for Raikage to get gangraped by the clones he obviously wasn't doing as well as Tsunade against them, since they couldn't do the same thing to her while she was taking the swords out of her and doubling over in pain



Hyperbole.

Probably because the hand was right on top of him. Raikage had to advise Tsunade that her fighting was getting sloppy, indicating that she wasn't doing as well as him. Again, Raikage had to be genjutsu'd.

Gaara's scenario happened because he had to make up for Mei's failure. I consider him doing that while also defending himself a better feat than Tsunade punching 1 then _fainting_.

Tsunade wasn't any less surrounded than Mei & Gaara.

Mei & Gaara both got up and met back with Ohnoki on command despite being "surrounded".


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## 1yesman9 (Feb 1, 2018)

FlamingRain said:


> Raikage couldn't actually do anything to Susano'o, unlike Tsunade, and it's Raikage's fault for letting himself get distracted while he was "pinned" in the first place. Gaara got floored the moment he tried to assist Mei and admitted that the clones were too strong for him to keep fighting, again unlike Tsunade and more like Mei.
> 
> Tsunade and Ohnoki were the only ones who could afford to pay attention to another Kage, and Ohnoki was the only one who could actually assist another Kage without being overwhelmed (Tsunade didn't have the range to do it). At the same time Ohnoki didn't have the stamina to carry on as long as Tsunade would have been able to...
> 
> So either Tsunade or Ohnoki did the best, followed by either Raikage or Gaara, and then Mei.



You're judging the performance of two characters but not including circumstance. Tsunade didn't get nailed by gen, but also wasn't put in a position where she had to advise and worry about another page because their fighting was sloppy and they bellied over.

Tsunade fell down similar to Gaara, but again, wasn't put in a position where she had had to defend herself and another Kage.

Why could Tsunade afford distractions more than Gaara? Gaara despite defending another kage ( worse than a distraction ) could still defend himself.

Gaara defending mei -> Gaara on ground, but still capable of escaping and meeting with Ohnoki.
Tsunade tanking attacks -> Tsunade on ground, but still capable of escaping and meeting Ohnoki.

It isn't even obvious that Gaara ended up in worse position than Tsunade. Tsunade boasted more than Gaara, but fell over immediately after to show us she was just as ( if not more ) limited than him.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 1, 2018)

1yesman9 said:


> You're judging the performance of two characters but not including circumstance. Tsunade didn't get nailed by gen, but also wasn't put in a position where she had to advise and worry about another page because their fighting was sloppy and they bellied over.
> 
> Tsunade fell down similar to Gaara, but again, wasn't put in a position where she had had to defend herself and another Kage.
> 
> ...



It seems to me like you're not considering that the characters are responsible for which actions they decide to take at any given point and the consequences that come with them. That's why Madara took note of Ohnoki's wisdom finally showing through. Certain other Kage were not showing it. Raikage loses points because _he decided_ to worry about Tsunade when he should have been worried about himself. Raikage has nobody to blame but himself and similar goes for Gaara.

Tsunade fell to her knee, true, but only _after_ she had knocked down the Susano'o in front of her _and before_ the remaining Susano'o could reenter the battle with her. She does not lose as many points because she never left an opening her opponents could capitalize on like Raikage and Gaara. That's the point.

Raikage was _out_, Gaara was going to be out next, and _then_ Tsunade (this part we can infer based on how much Chakra Tsunade proved to have leftover when she supercharged Ohnoki's Jinton). It becomes even more apparent that Gaara's circumstance was worse than Tsunade's when he starts with the "no, not like this..." and worried face.


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## Eliyua23 (Feb 1, 2018)

1. The gap between Minato and Hashirama is not that large at all , probably not at all larger than the one between Madara and Hashirama 

2. Naruto did not surpass Minato until the end of the war arc when comparisons to Minato stopped 

3. Orochimaru is not as strong as Itachi/Jiraiya But is far more dangerous due to his expiriments and scientific research 

4. Orochimaru was never set up to be a Shinobi built for combat 

5. Sakura was always a very capable Shinobi throughout pt 2 

6. Mifune is a Kage Level character 

7. Hiruzen is stronger than Tobirama 

8. Naruto was equal to Sasuke after learning FRS they literally were the same , S rank , Kurama/Hebi form they couldn’t quite control 

9. Naruto or Sasuke could’ve defeated Juubito solo after getting their Rikudo powers 

10. Boruto and co are much stronger than team 7 at the same age 

11. Kushina is a high Kage level character

Reactions: Winner 1


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## narut0ninjafan (Feb 1, 2018)

1yesman9 said:


> Hyperbole.
> 
> Probably because the hand was right on top of him. Raikage had to advise Tsunade that her fighting was getting sloppy, indicating that she wasn't doing as well as him. Again, Raikage had to be genjutsu'd.
> 
> ...



But despite fighting sloppy Tsunade was still not overwhelmed by the clones like A was. Being "distracted" and "genjutsu'd" are pretty poor excuses for the fact that ultimately he was defeated. Tsunade was more distracted than A if anything by being the one actually doubling over in pain instead of just noticing and worrying about it, yet you don't see the clones genjutsu and attack her like they did to him

Gaara was also overwhelmed by the clones unlike Tsunade so he was doing worse. Yes, he protected Mei but that likely wouldn't have changed the fact the clones still breached his defence and he was defeated. Unlike the other Kages there was no imminent threat to Tsunade besides her being in pain when Onoki made his speech so she was obviously doing better than them

And again, where are you getting the idea that she fainted from? It's kind of hard to take your post seriously when you're liberally making up fanfiction like that


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## 1yesman9 (Feb 1, 2018)

FlamingRain said:


> It seems to me like you're not considering that the characters are responsible for which actions they decide to take at any given point and the consequences that come with them. Raikage loses points because _he decided_ to worry about Tsunade when he should have been worried about himself. Similar goes for Gaara.
> 
> Tsunade fell to her knee, true, but only _after_ she had knocked down the Susano'o in front of her _and before_ the remaining Susano'o could reenter the battle with her. She does not lose as many points because she never left an opening her opponents could capitalize on like Raikage and Gaara.
> 
> Raikage was out, Gaara was going to be out next, and then Tsunade (this part we can infer based on how much Chakra Tsunade proved to have leftover when she supercharged Ohnoki's Jinton). It becomes even more apparent that Gaara's circumstance was worse than Tsunade's when he starts with the "no, not like this..." and worried face.



That only makes the case worse for Tsunade. If you're using a feat to judge strength, it's about replicability. You have to weigh the points you add or subtract by the chance that the situation will happen again. If Raikage fights the 5 clones again, Tsunade won't be there to distract him with her sloppy fighting. If Gaara fights the 5 clones again, he won't have to cover for Mei. If Tsunade fights the 5 clones again, she'll feint just the same.

If we speculated about the Raikage vs Tsunade in another thread for example, you couldn't use this scenario as evidance for Tsunade's strength, because the raikage won't have some ally to perform sloppy and distract him this time around.

All Gaara said was "No doubt, at this rate".

His reaction also makes sense being that he's just 15 & with a less boisterous personality. Tsunade has a good face on, but if you look at what happened, she was fighting sloppy enough to worry Raikage, and fell over right after.

Also, why is Tsunade landing a hit > countering and blocking a punch? To me both is sufficient evidence of holding their own in the fight against the susanoo ( before getting distracted by sloppy allies ofc )

Reactions: Agree 1


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## 1yesman9 (Feb 1, 2018)

narut0ninjafan said:


> Gaara was also overwhelmed by the clones unlike Tsunade so he was doing worse. Yes, he protected Mei but that likely wouldn't have changed the fact the clones still breached his defence and he was defeated. Unlike the other Kages there was no imminent threat to Tsunade besides her being in pain when Onoki made his speech so she was obviously doing better than them




1. Gaara, Mei & Tsunade are all on the ground.
2. Ohnoki makes his speech.
3. Gaara, Mei & Tsunade all get up and join him simultaneously.

How was Gaara & Mei in a more imminent threat? I feel like you're interpreting the susanoo's clones standing in a literal circle as being more of a threat. There were susanoo around Tsunade who had just as much access to her as the susanoo around Mei & Gaara.

It's a total assumption that the clones would of breached his defense & defeated him had he not defended Mei. He probably wouldn't of been a position to be attacked had he not been protecting Mei.

On top of that, Gaara's sand defense has a damage mitigating effect which is similarly useful to Tsunade's self - heal. Normally, if they get stabbed directly, they'd die. But Gaara allows himself to keep fighting by mitigating damage. Tsunade allows her to keep fighting by healing damage. Both of these effects were useful to the same extent, since they both ended up on the ground at the same time. Except Gaara only ended up on the ground because he saved Mei.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 1, 2018)

1yesman9 said:


> That only makes the case worse for Tsunade. If you're using a feat to judge strength, it's about replicability. You have to weigh the points you add or subtract by the chance that the situation will happen again. If Raikage fights the 5 clones again, Tsunade won't be there to distract him with her sloppy fighting. If Gaara fights the 5 clones again, he won't have to cover for Mei. If Tsunade fights the 5 clones again, she'll feint just the same.
> 
> If we speculated about the Raikage vs Tsunade in another thread for example, you couldn't use this scenario as evidance for Tsunade's strength, because the raikage won't have some ally to perform sloppy and distract him this time around.
> 
> ...



It doesn't because it just goes to show that Gaara and Raikage have worse battle acumens than Tsunade does, unless you also want to tell me that Madara pointed out how Ohnoki was doing for nothing because it was due in part to saving Raikage. We can think of other "what ifs" all day, but first you need to look up what the definition of "faint" actually is because that's not what Tsunade did. She fell to her knee, that's it. Sōzō Saisei ensured that she built up no net damage (in effect achieving the same thing as blocking or evading) so in the end of it she would have been able to keep going longer than the others. Heck even if we swapped their positions so Tsunade was the one that had been put in a Genjutsu she would have survived the free shot the clones got and pressed on without help from Ohnoki. Like Tsunade said, what good would preserving strength even be? The opponents were powered by an Edo Tensei and so did not tire. Another part of why Raikage loses so many points compared to Tsunade. Any headway is better than no headway, and that's what we see in Tsunade managing to slam her set of Susano'o into the ground while the other Kage were unable to budge theirs.

Gaara reacted the way he did because his situation was more dire.


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

FlamingRain said:


> Gaara got floored the moment he tried to assist Mei and admitted that the clones were too strong for him to keep fighting, again unlike Tsunade and more like Mei.


At least he *could *assist Mei, unlike Tsunade. 


> Tsunade and Ohnoki were the only ones who could afford to pay attention to another Kage


"afford to pay attention" isn't really a great accomplishment, in fact this shows how unimpressive Tsunade is that such accomplishments have to be pointed out.


> and Ohnoki was the only one who could actually assist another Kage without being overwhelmed *(Tsunade didn't have the range to do it)*.


It's no one fault that Tsunade is one-dimensional and has no ranged techniques, that's on her. Gaara could assist another Kage, Tsunade couldn't. 


> So either Tsunade or Ohnoki did the best, followed by either Raikage or Gaara, and then Mei.


1. Onoki
2. Gaara
3. Tsunade
4. E
5. Mei

There's some debate as to Gaara and Tsunade's placement, but she did not outperform Oonoki let's not kid ourselves and excuse her lack of offensive options as "she just didn't have range".


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## FlamingRain (Feb 1, 2018)

Shark said:


> There's some debate as to Gaara and Tsunade's placement, but she did not outperform Oonoki let's not kid ourselves and excuse her lack of offensive options as "she just didn't have range".



Nobody is excusing her lack of options, just pointing out why she couldn't assist. It's not even an offensive option that's needed it's a supplementary one. If she _had_ a method to assist Raikage then she would have been the obvious choice. It's _because she doesn't_ that I'm undecided on who actually did better.


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## narut0ninjafan (Feb 1, 2018)

1yesman9 said:


> 1. Gaara, Mei & Tsunade are all on the ground.
> 2. Ohnoki makes his speech.
> 3. Gaara, Mei & Tsunade all get up and join him simultaneously.
> 
> ...



Because the clones had Gaara and Mei surrounded just before Onoki made his speech, so they were about to be killed. The fact that Kishi makes a point of showing them surrounded is significant in that it shows them having been defeated. You never see a similar panel for Tsunade and you can see her clones are scattered around and reentering the battlefield

And how exactly would Gaara not protecting Mei have changed things? He's a stationary fighter and he was relying on his defence to protect him, it's not like he was gonna jump out of the way if he didn't protect Mei. He would have been hit and defeated either way as shown by the 5 clones attacking at once being enough to breach his defence. The only assumption being made here is you thinking him not protecting Mei would have changed things when we've already seen that the clones are strong enough to break his defence

You're right about the damage mitigating effect but the difference is the clones can break his defences and knock him about without taking any damage themselves. And again you're ignoring the significance of the panel of him being surrounded by his Susanoo clones, it's pretty clear Kishi intended to show that he was in a hopeless position against them


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

FlamingRain said:


> Nobody is excusing her lack of options, just pointing out why she couldn't assist. It's not even an offensive option that's needed it's a supplementary one. If she _had_ a method to assist Raikage then she would have been the obvious choice. It's _because she doesn't_ that I'm undecided on who actually did better.


Well, if Mei had Tsunade's strength and CQC skill she could have performed better against Susano'o. If she _had _her strength he would have obviously handled Susano'o. It's _because she doesn't _that she couldn't.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 1, 2018)

Shark said:


> Well, if Mei had Tsunade's strength and CQC skill she could have performed better against Susano'o. If she _had _her strength he would have obviously handled Susano'o. It's _because she doesn't _that he couldn't.



Of course. Now how is that analogous to what I did?


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

FlamingRain said:


> Of course. Now how is that analogous to what I did?


I'm undecided who actually did better, Mei or Tsunade. It's _because she doesn't have Tsunade's strength _that I'm undecided on who actually did better.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 1, 2018)

Shark said:


> I'm undecided who actually did better, Mei or Tsunade. It's _because she doesn't have Tsunade's strength _that I'm undecided on who actually did better.



Still not seeing it.

It's not because Tsunade's performance would have obviously been superior if she shared Ohnoki's abilities that I'm undecided on who did better. I'm undecided on who was doing better as it actually happened.

Ohnoki having a Jutsu to help Raikage whereas Tsunade did not is a point Ohnoki has over Tsunade. It's just that I'm not sure it's actually enough to more than make up for how Ohnoki just about ran out of Chakra by the time he pulled that off.

If you see Tsunade's performance vs Mei's similarly then that's up to you, but if that list you posted earlier was honest...


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Feb 1, 2018)

Unpopular view: 

Jiraiya solos your favorite.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Bonly (Feb 1, 2018)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Unpopular view:
> 
> Jiraiya solos your favorite.



What if my fave is Jiraiya

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Bookworm (Feb 1, 2018)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Unpopular view:
> 
> Jiraiya solos your favorite.



What if my favorite is Minato?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## FlamingRain (Feb 1, 2018)

Trolling said:


> What if my favorite is Minato?



Jiraiya > Jūbito >>>>>> Minato.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Coolest Guy! 2


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## Dec0de (Feb 1, 2018)

1. Living Minato is vastly overhyped and at best in the lower end of High Kage, if not Mid Kage.
2. Boruto's "prodigal talent" is vastly overstated and he's not above Genin Naruto during Chunin exams & at the end of part 1 (so far)
3. Kotoamatsukami may be the most overrated Jutsu in Narutoverse
4. The current Gokages except for Naruto & Gaara get downplayed too much by many in this fandom and aren't far behind from their predecessors (Darui may even have surpassed Ei 4th)
5. Lee actually was always superior than Neji till the end of Naruto Shippuden, once he opened the 5th & later 6th gate respectively, although Neji was supposed to be stronger than him (cause "prodigy" and what not)
6. Speed of characters gets overblown as a factor in many vs threads and contributes alot to why living Minato gets wanked on too much, durability in combination with raw power and / or hax abilities (although many consider Hiraishin to be very hax) + solid in-battle intelligence and in some cases even the locations are more important factors throughout Naruto Series
7. Amaterasu is actually the most underrated Mangekyo Sharingan ability, since it got nerfed to the ground for plot reasons in the second half of Naruto Shippuden
8. Bijuus & their Jinchuriki's powers are often overexaggerated (yes, i've seen some people put any random Jinchuriki in Kage Tier lmao)
9. Neji actually hasnt surpassed Hiashi till the point of his death (but obv would've surpassed him, if he didn't save freaking useless Hinata from death)
10. Hanzo's portrayal doesnt' come even close to what we've actually seen him been capable off and the Sannin in their prime have all surpassed him (yes, even including the more support than offensively orientated Tsunade)
11. Shikamaru isn't as smart as many claim him to be (and i'm mostly talking about battle intelligence here)
12. Lee hasnt surpassed Guy yet (and yeah many people actually think Lee has done so, even though it's pure speculation that he can use the 8th Gate and that 7th Gate Lee's actually stronger than 7th Gate Guy)
13. Kamui hax get's overblown by many almost like it's uncounterable (and no im not denying, that Kamui is a very hax ability), which gets to the point that i've seen some guy put DMS Kakashi at #3 on his top 10 character power level list above the freaking final Madara
14. Asspulldara got wanked on too much by Kishimoto, in no shape and form no eyes Sage Mode Madara solos 9 Bijuus + bunch of Kage & Kage+ Shinobi even with that stupid Limbo hax without bs plot armor


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Feb 1, 2018)

Bonly said:


> What if my fave is Jiraiya


Jiraiya and Jiraiya would kill each other. Even if Jiraiya went back for more men the end result would still be the same. The best case scenario would be for Jiraiya to escape badly injured.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## SakuraLover16 (Feb 1, 2018)

Another unpopular opinion.
Tsunade's boobs are way more than two centimeters bigger than Hinata's she may as well be a dairy cow.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 2


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Another unpopular opinion.
> Tsunade's boobs are way more than two centimeters bigger than Hinata's *she may as well be a dairy cow.*


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## Hi no Ishi (Feb 1, 2018)

Let's have some fun. 

0. Garra is da best!

1. BSM Naruto is a week away from wrecking SM Hashirama.

2. BSM Naruto has close to the same chakra pool as original Kurama.

3. 50% Kurama grew back to normal size and has never been shown being much bigger than the other tailed beasts.

4. There are not really huge gaps within the same tier, ex: most mid Kage are a close fight. 

5. Matchup is more important than tier as kishi did not put them into tiers.

6. In Kishimoto's thoughts Hiruzen is probably the third strongest Hokage still.

7. Tobirama is MS Madara level. So is prime Hiruzen.

8. Kurama would stomp EMS Madara in a straight fight. 

9. Low Kage and high Jonin are pretty much the same thing and are almost interchangable. Hi Jonin in are the people in the running to be elected kage

10. Every division leader is Kage level in their field.

11. No regular shinobi can beat 6PoP without knowledge. 

12. All three Sannin are supposed to be examples of top class shinobi like Itachi , (the only real non official term used used in the manga IIRC) the top tier of how strong a ninja could get. Naruto says this about he and Sasuke again at the Land of Iron Bridge when they are finally on the level of the Sannin and Itachi.

13. The Sannin and Itachi are all the same level of threat to most people. 
Itachi and Jiraiya were hinted to kill each other. 

14. Kaguya and Black Zetsu are good villains and represent everything Naruto would hate. 

15. Konan is a High Kage.

16. If you don't love Rem-rin and Emelia-tan you are wrong

17. Sasori, Kisame, Kakuzu, Deidara, Hidan are all close in threat level to the average Shinobi.

18. Kishimoto probably considers the new three way deadlock the same level, lol.

19. Edo Minato would kill Hashirama 

20. With the right knowledge Jiraiya can beat 6PoP

Reactions: Like 1


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## SakuraLover16 (Feb 1, 2018)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Another unpopular opinion.
> Tsunade's boobs are way more than two centimeters bigger than Hinata's she may as well be a dairy cow.


Okay this was lewd....


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

I'll add some more:

Jiraiya starting in SM vs all 6 paths of pain with full knowledge would lose 10/10 mid difficulty.

Itachi > Bee > Minato.   Minato > Obito > Itachi.    But Minato = Itachi

The only Akatsuki Tsunade can beat is Hidan, the rest are all stronger than her.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## The_Conqueror (Feb 1, 2018)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Tsunade's boobs are way more than two centimeters bigger than Hinata's she may as well be a dairy cow.


Tsuande may have used Jutsu to increase the size actually
Anyway Hinatas boobs >Shaggy boobs

*Spoiler*: __ 



I need to remind myself that shit post contest has already ended


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## SakuraLover16 (Feb 1, 2018)

Shark said:


> I'll add some more:
> 
> Jiraiya starting in SM vs all 6 paths of pain with full knowledge would lose 10/10 mid difficulty.
> 
> ...


I disagree about the Tsunade one. Her kit works well against many of the Akatsuki members especially since one punch equals a near fatal blow or death.


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## SakuraLover16 (Feb 1, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> Tsuande may have used Jutsu to increase the size actually
> Anyway Hinatas boobs >Shaggy boobs
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Those boobs are real when she has chakra considering she unconsciously holds her transformation.


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## Azula (Feb 2, 2018)

*1)* This is how the Sannins and Kabuto are placed strength-wise.

SM Jiraiya~SM Kabuto

Orochimaru~Tsunade
Kabuto is really what Orochimaru *should have been* but since he has been reduced to a punching bag... oh well.

People need to re-evaluate SM Jiraiya instead of insisting SM Kabuto is somehow so strong despite simply getting the same Sage Mode power from his summons.

Sound 4 and Taka modifications don't give him a huge jump in power as they are fodder without SM boost while Jiraiya has his own techniques that are powerful in base itself.

If *Rock-Paper-Scissors* logic holds true why does a Sage Mode from Snakes somehow so superior to Sage Mode from Toads? Shouldn't they be same level, (you can argue match-up advantage). 

~

*2)* Nagato and Pein are overall the same strength-wise. The *advantages* of division of powers into six different bodies more than makes up for the degradation of the individual power in Pein.

If anything Nagato might get defeated quicker than the paths since the paths have the option to do a "reset" with Naraka Path. Nagato gets hit, he dies. 

~

*3)* Minato is often ranked less than "_the Founders_" which is *quite hilarious*. The fact that Kishi could not find another power to give to Tobirama but just gave him the same thing as Minato so that he can be of use with a Juubi Jin fight says everything.

Minato casually countering a gigantic Juubi bomb which is bigger than Susanoo, bigger than Mokuton techniques is another obvious tell.

If Hashirama is bijuu-counter for temporarily suppressing bijuu but then what does that make Minato who can *permanently* seal them with Hakke-Fuin? 

~

4) Itachi*<*Jiraiya/Kabuto but Itachi*>*Orochimaru/Tsunade

~

5) Tobirama vs Minato will always go to Minato since now that Hiraishin has become the main power of Tobirama and he will lose on that. It's like arguing who would win in a Rasengan only fight between Minato and Naruto. New gen>Old gen is true when you are considering one sole aspect of strength.

Sealing is* >>>> *Edos, come on people, and the bomb and Edo combo is worthless against Minato's speed anyway.

~

That is all. 
May add later.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Ishmael (Feb 2, 2018)

Hebi sasuke if not the most, is one of the most versatile shinobi to have been shown in the manga


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## oiety (Feb 2, 2018)

Forgot one-
As much as the NBD may hate her, if you won't acknowledge that Adult Sakura is war arc Tsunade's superior at very least, you're just delusional at this point.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ishmael (Feb 2, 2018)

oiety said:


> Forgot one-
> As much as the NBD may hate her, if you won't acknowledge that Adult Sakura is war arc Tsunade's superior at very least, you're just delusional at this point.



Or you have a different opinion. But yeah.


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## Kai (Feb 2, 2018)

Onoki > each Sannin

10T Obito > Toneri

7th Gate Guy > MS Kakashi.

Kotoamatsukami slightly overrated.

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Optimistic 2


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## oiety (Feb 2, 2018)

Seems to contradict a lot of what the manga says though, doesn't it?

For starters is the parallel between Tsunade and Chiyo, with Tsunade routinely coming up with the cures to Chiyo's poisons during the war, and Sakura later taking up the same spot and inventing an antidote for Sasori's poison.

Secondly,  are  good  of  statements the matter.

Third, from a feats point of view, is that I'm pretty sure Sakura's ground punch covers more AoE than any of Tsunade's. Other things as well, like one punching Shin, one punching the boss summon sized crab in The Last, resisting Genjutsu that caught Naruto in The Last, supplying Obito enough chakra to open up portals during the War Arc, etc.

Tacking all that on to the emphasis placed on the "Neo-Sannin" leading up to and including the "New Three Way Deadlock" during the War Arc more than kind of indicates to me that she's been surpassed. I'll give you that War Arc Sakura v Tsunade is totally arguable, but I can't see the same for Adult Sakura.

I'm sure you've already heard a lot of this though-just putting it out there. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Feb 2, 2018)

Here is another one I just remembered... 

For some reason, although in the manga it was stated that PS rivals the Bijuu, and the fact that the Bijuu's showed higher firepower than the Susanoo (Susanoo can only cut a slice of a mountain, where the Bijuu destroys the entire damn thing). People act as if PS is on a whole different level, and no matter what no character (besides Hashirama or higher) will be able to deal with PS!

imo, anyone who could deal with the Bijuus (although the higher ones) will deal with PS just as fine. And if they can deal with the TBB, they can deal with PS's slashes even easier since they are weaker.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LostSelf (Feb 3, 2018)

Not that unpopular, but the Masters either matched or surpassed the Sannin by the War-Arc (and their fame surpassed them greatly after the War). 

Another is them not low-diffing Mid-Kage shinobis unless they are Hidan or Konan.

I don't think i have many "controversial" opinions. Only opinions with the Sannin gets so much debate and stuff. With other characters most stuff is kind of settled.

I view the Gokage as in the same general level also. People see Mei as the weakest when in reality she was the worst matched against Madara and that shouldn't count on her overall standing. Onoki and the Raikage of course, edges them out. And i see Gaara as the most talented. But i don't see that as controversial and assume is not.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kisame (Feb 3, 2018)

Pain > Nagato.

Nagato's superiority is in Jutsu scale. Shared vision is the key. SM Jiraiya vs Nagato who is restricted to only using preta, human and animal path abilities would never have SM Jiraiya saying "Ninjutsu and Taijutsu are useless".

Each path having only one ability is made up for by the fact that shared vision and body count mean CQC and Ninjutsu is *completely useless*.

Even portrayal wise, Nagato's strongest technique is the six paths of pain, if he was stronger by himself why did he even use it?

For example, Itachi > Nagato is not that absurd to me even from a portrayal perspective as Nagato's superiority was always heavily associated with his *pain bodies and shared vision*, not just the renningan abilities and superior dojutsu.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Neutral 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Danovic (Feb 3, 2018)

Shark said:


> Got this idea from a similar thread in a different section.
> 
> Mention an opinion you have that you believe most of the NBD will find unpopular or controversial. It has to be battledome-related.
> 
> ...


i think that Itachi would be a bit stronger, not too much but if he had the EMS then he would be a lot stronger imo due to the blindness effect stopping him from abusing it.


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## uchihakil (Feb 6, 2018)

1- Muu is underrated and can beat most charcaters in naruto that are not rikudou enhanced or indra ashuura incarnates (it took war arc gaara, ohnoki and kcm naruto to beat him, even then he escaped)

2- Alive minato is overrated, his base speed is overrated, some people think he can blitz even mid/high kage level characters with his shuunshin, and also give him SM when he himself claims he's not good at using it.

3- Jman is not beating 6 paths of pain on full attendance, maybe he can assuming pain doesn't want to go all out and use heavy destructibe techniques like CT and CST due to being in the hidden rain, and if he engages like he did with few paths at a time, but not take on the whole squad at the same time.

4- Tobirama > alive Minato

5- A healthy nagato >= base hashirama (due to bad matchup)

6- Juubito can use kamui to teleport

7- Naruto and sasuke are equal

8- DRSM madara can beat a weak willed juubito extreme high diff.

9- Juubito > toneri 

10- Gin/kin bros are underrated, i think due to the general performance of ET, some characters are underrated and the duo are one of'em, kishi made characters really weak and easy to beat in the war arc due to time, i think they are stronger, have 5 elements, sealing gourd, large reserves, can go v2 which enhances every stat of theirs, as a duo can counter normal genjutsu etc

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Santoryu (Feb 6, 2018)

Hokage Kakashi >tsunade/old hiruzen

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Ultrafragor (Feb 6, 2018)

Hussain said:


> Here is another one I just remembered...
> 
> For some reason, although in the manga it was stated that PS rivals the Bijuu, and the fact that the Bijuu's showed higher firepower than the Susanoo (Susanoo can only cut a slice of a mountain, where the Bijuu destroys the entire damn thing). People act as if PS is on a whole different level, and no matter what no character (besides Hashirama or higher) will be able to deal with PS!
> 
> imo, anyone who could deal with the Bijuus (although the higher ones) will deal with PS just as fine. And if they can deal with the TBB, they can deal with PS's slashes even easier since they are weaker.



No......

PS is a skilled fighting machine that can't feel pain. That's harder to put down than a bijuu.

If you blast half a bijuu's face off, you win. Of you blast half of Susano'o's face off, it'll keep fighting you.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Vrizu (Feb 6, 2018)

Rasa was actually a solid Mid Kage (mid), He was just unlucky that plot treated him like shit compared to his son.

BM Minato has fair chance to defeat EMS Madara.

Current Konohamaru is at the same level as current Kakashi.

Asuma 10/10 would beat Hidan in a rematch high diff.

Had Neji lived on, he would become a Mid Kage level as an adult.

Muu >= Prime Onoki.

EOS Sakura isn't a High Kage

Jman and Tsunade are actually friends with benefits.

Naruto x Sarada >>> Naruhina

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trojan (Feb 6, 2018)

Ultrafragor said:


> No......
> 
> PS is a skilled fighting machine that can't feel pain. That's harder to put down than a bijuu.
> 
> If you blast half a bijuu's face off, you win. Of you blast half of Susano'o's face off, it'll keep fighting you.



The Bijuus have more chakra than Asspulldara (at least some of them), and have higher firepower. 
If we go by pain, then Susanoo is also valuable to sound-based moves, and its durability is inconsistent as well.


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## LostSelf (Feb 6, 2018)

Vrizu said:


> Naruto x Sarada >>> Naruhina

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vrizu (Feb 6, 2018)

LostSelf said:


>



Blame Sahara Wataru not me 

Tho I must admit, I'm quite enjoying this ship.
And to think that I was such a big Naruhina sucker back then

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Ultrafragor (Feb 6, 2018)

Hussain said:


> The Bijuus have more chakra than Asspulldara (at least some of them), and have higher firepower.
> If we go by pain, then Susanoo is also valuable to sound-based moves, and its durability is inconsistent as well.



The Uchiha's thing was always chakra potency, not chakra volume. Chakra volume isn't the deciding factor anyway since Part 1 Naruto and Karin weren't steamrolling everyone that tried to fight them.

Giant Robot>Larger body made of actual flesh

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Trojan (Feb 6, 2018)

Ultrafragor said:


> The Uchiha's thing was always chakra potency, not chakra volume. Chakra volume isn't the deciding factor anyway since Part 1 Naruto and Karin weren't steamrolling everyone that tried to fight them.
> 
> Giant Robot>Larger body made of actual flesh



It's the same thing. For example, people are willing to accept that Gamabunta can make Kurama fall to the ground, but they will not accept it when it comes to PS. It's ok for them that the Juubi can fall because the ground moved under him, and threw him off balance, but they won't accept the same for PS.

You are saying PS is chakra, which is true. However, as it has its advantages (does not feel pain as you said) it also has its disadvantage. A chakra can be absorbed (Preta path, Kisame's built shark for example). However, people are not willing to accept that includes the Susanoo. They will claim that PS cannot be absorbed, and it's the no-limit fallacy...etc etc Just because... 

Or how they or okay to compare PS to a Bijuu from a power stand-point. However, when you say the Uzumaki chains, for example, stopped Kurama and it can stop PS. They will get outraged and say it's impossible unless PS is just standing there and not trying to move or some nonsense like that. 


It's pretty obvious that most people here are biased toward PS for some reason, and making it much stronger than it really is.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Hi no Ishi (Feb 6, 2018)

Hussain said:


> It's the same thing. For example, people are willing to accept that Gamabunta can make Kurama fall to the ground, but they will not accept it when it comes to PS. It's ok for them that the Juubi can fall because the ground moved under him, and threw him off balance, but they won't accept the same for PS.
> 
> You are saying PS is chakra, which is true. However, as it has its advantages (does not feel pain as you said) it also has its disadvantage. A chakra can be absorbed (Preta path, Kisame's built shark for example). However, people are not willing to accept that includes the Susanoo. They will claim that PS cannot be absorbed, and it's the no-limit fallacy...etc etc Just because...
> 
> ...


You missed my week of having to argue with people trying to tell me EMS Madara does more Damage than a Jubii Dama lol. Over and over.

And that Rasenshruiken putting Kurama on its ass means it won't hurt PS at all. 

And though Naruto can toss Biju, not PS!
Etc etc ad nauseam.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## uchihakil (Feb 6, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> You missed my week of having to argue with people trying to tell me EMS Madara does more Damage than a Jubii Dama lol. Over and over.
> 
> And that Rasenshruiken putting Kurama on its ass means it won't hurt PS at all.
> 
> ...




Which you bitched out of after suffering a horrible defeat.


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## Ultrafragor (Feb 6, 2018)

Hm, avatar seems right

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Feb 6, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> Which you bitched out of after suffering a horrible defeat.


I don't know if you are lying or just forgot, but all of your baseless speculation was countered and you failed to respond to it, not me. 

Check page two of it again before making shit up though please!


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## Kai (Feb 6, 2018)

Sage Naruto is possibly the most overrated character imo. People not only pit SM and NTCM Naruto against but also defeating identical opponents when it's clear controlling the Nine Tails' chakra puts Naruto a level above SM, not to mention Naruto's statement to Nagato of being stronger than when he fought Pain.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## uchihakil (Feb 6, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> I don't know if you are lying or just forgot, but all of your baseless speculation was countered and you failed to respond to it, not me.
> 
> Check page two of it again before making shit up though please!




You didn't counter shit, you just refuse to agree with basic naruto scaling because it doesn't suit your opinion.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Lewd 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Feb 6, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> You didn't counter shit, you just refuse to agree with basic naruto scaling because it doesn't suit your opinion.


Scaling =/= handing out abilities for no reason. 
Nor does EMS Madara scale to the Jubi


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## uchihakil (Feb 6, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Scaling =/= handing out abilities for no reason.
> Nor does EMS Madara scale to the Jubi




I never scaled madara to the juubi, they had different attacks, as i said in that thread, comparing TBB to PS blade is like comparing COR to hellstab, but you want to put words in my mouth so i sound ridiculous to other people. 

And scaling EMS madara to EMS sasuke is also based on what was said on the manga about choku tomoe, precog, experience, chakra quantity and quality and how it affects a characters reactions and speed, i used ALL of that for my argument, pulled nothing out of my ass, but you disagree on it, not my problem though.


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 6, 2018)

-the shadow clone jutsu does not weaken/restrict a shinobi at all in terms of_ stats_ or _jutsu_(except 4 kakashi using kamui w/o uchiha blood or itachi using a full susano'o) . the multi-shadow clone jutsu is a different story...
-ghost kamui>amaterasu>sniper kamui- in terms of hax & utility
-zetsu ate jiraiyas' corpse
-Tsutenkyaku & 0kasho vs the juubilings take extremely minimal amounts of chakra, more akin to using hien or chakra scalpel
-asura laser can stalemate jin'ton & fodderise any other elemental jutsu
-kisame cannot breathe underwater without fusion
-_haku_ can perform ''touch of death'' like _gari & pakura_
-kin & gin are actually just dropped toriko characters
-raiden is a worthless jutsu; gai is purely comic relief & shouldn't be taken seriously
-even without E.T, 0ro beats minato, tobirama, san-nin, tsuchikage's, danzo & raikage's 1v1
- hiruzen beats them all too
-itachi individually beats hiruzen & oro without e.t.
- and SM kabuto beats all 3 of _them^_ individually

Reactions: Informative 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Feb 6, 2018)

Vrizu said:


> Naruto x Sarada

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Hi no Ishi (Feb 7, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> I never scaled madara to the juubi, they had different attacks, as i said in that thread, comparing TBB to PS blade is like comparing COR to hellstab, but you want to put words in my mouth so i sound ridiculous to other people.
> 
> And scaling EMS madara to EMS sasuke is also based on what was said on the manga about choku tomoe, precog, experience, chakra quantity and quality and how it affects a characters reactions and speed, i used ALL of that for my argument, pulled nothing out of my ass, but you disagree on it, not my problem though.





uchihakil said:


> > Madara's PS SHOCKWAVE CUT MOUNTAINS in half, SHOCKFRIGGINWAVE, if that aint impressive i dont know what is, the shockwave of ones attack should be faaar inferior to one's original attack, madara will fuck naruto up if he lands a direct on him.


 that's you saying a PS blade will do more that the Jubi laser did to Naruto, remember?


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## uchihakil (Feb 7, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> that's you saying a PS blade will do more that the Jubi laser did to Naruto, remember?




What dont you understand about the techniques having different effects??? And why dont you also understand that that was 1st for juubi (the weakest incarnation of the beast with a lower feat)???

A character weaker than the juubi can have an attack more potent e.g ohnoki with jinton, you keep treating PS blade like a juubi dama, they ARE NOT THE SAME, THUS HAVE DIFFERENT EFFECTS, we saw this on other forms of attacks also, hirodora not doing jack to juudara despite having massive aoe and sasuke's blade cutting madara in half despite having smaller aoe. Having larger AOE doesn't always mean being more potent. But despite all the examples i'll give, you'll still argue otherwise, eitherway this is not the thread for that.


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## StandingMan (Feb 8, 2018)

Sasuke has surpassed Naruto again.

Naruto is struggling to beat phony Uchiha and Sasuke is pummeling Otsutski’s while heavily nerfed.

Edit: See very unpopular opinion!

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1 | Disagree 2


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## Shazam (Feb 8, 2018)

Gaara, along with SM Kabuto is a great counter character against the Uchiha Bros.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Buuhan (Feb 8, 2018)

LightningBlader said:


> Sasuke has surpassed Naruto again.
> 
> Naruto is struggling to beat phony Uchiha and Sasuke is pummeling Otsutski’s while heavily nerfed.
> 
> Edit: See very unpopular opinion!


Naruto disapproves

Reactions: Funny 1


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## tsunadefan (Feb 8, 2018)

Shark said:


> I'll add another one: The gap between Tsunade and the other two Sannin is huge...like really huge. She is not even *close* to being on the same tier.
> 
> Agreed. Except for Tsunade who would lose to all of them with the possible exception of Sasori (under favourable circumstances).
> 
> ...



Nooooo. The gap is not huge. Tsunade is low kage level and they are mid kage level. 

Only akatsuki she would lose to are possibly obito, kisame at full power possibly... And that's it.

Nah. Tsunade is still up there.


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## tsunadefan (Feb 8, 2018)

Mine are:

• Tsunade is slow. No she isn't. She has shunshin and moved kinda fast in her fights.
• Tsunade isn't good at taijutsu cause she is linear. She isn't only linear as shown in her fights and she was stated to be undefeated in combat. 
Tsunade can be beat by ninjas who aren't kage tier. Nope. Tsunade is kage tier for a reason. 
• Prime Hiruzen is not the strongest hokage. He's probably the same as he was.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Feb 8, 2018)

LightningBlader said:


> Sasuke has surpassed Naruto again.
> 
> Naruto is struggling to beat phony Uchiha and Sasuke is pummeling Otsutski’s while heavily nerfed.
> 
> Edit: See very unpopular opinion!


It's not called unpopular opinion,  it's called wrong opinion


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## StandingMan (Feb 9, 2018)

The_Conqueror said:


> It's not called unpopular opinion,  it's called wrong opinion



Naruto got stabbed by a crap fodder of a character while a practically chakra drained Sauce with only one arm pulverized an Otsutski in their own dimension.

How am I wrong there?


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## StandingMan (Feb 9, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Naruto disapproves


:yeahsorry


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## TrollbitoUchiha (Feb 9, 2018)

Unpopular opinion?

Konan is an idiot. If she really wanted to keep the rinnegan away from Obito she should have destroyed it and joined the alliance.

Instead she fought Obito...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JManJam (Feb 9, 2018)

Unpopular opinion:

Naruto went downhill after the original series and started to get bad BEFORE the Pain arc.

It proceeded to jump the Kisame after the Pain arc.

Uchiha eye hax galore, DBZ form changes, Kamui, Kakashi’s stamina, the entire war arc, Edo Minato, power up hax, Zetsu.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Buuhan (Feb 9, 2018)

LightningBlader said:


> :yeahsorry


Look at ma boi

Saves el Sasuke

Look at MA BOI
 \


then theres ... derp

Reactions: Like 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Feb 9, 2018)

JManJam said:


> It proceeded to jump the Kisame after the Pain arc.


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## Santoryu (Feb 9, 2018)

the sound 5 sucks

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Icegaze (Feb 9, 2018)

kisame tanks a direct 8 gate punch to the jaw
because why not


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## Santoryu (Feb 9, 2018)

tsunadefan said:


> Only akatsuki she would lose to are possibly obito, kisame at full power possibly... And that's it.
> 
> Nah. Tsunade is still up there.



Nagato, Itachi?


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## StandingMan (Feb 9, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Look at ma boi
> 
> Saves el Sasuke
> 
> ...



Don’t show the part where Naruto got stabbed and admitted he’s rusty while Sauce trashes a Shin Uchiha with fireball jutsu–the most garbage move in the franchise.

Nah!


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## Buuhan (Feb 9, 2018)

LightningBlader said:


> Don’t show the part where Naruto got stabbed and admitted he’s rusty while Sauce trashes a Shin Uchiha with fireball jutsu–the most garbage move in the franchise.
> 
> Nah!


look at ma boi.... UNFAZED

He went on to heal it HEAL IT

WHo eLsE NeEded HeAlInG>?


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## Hi no Ishi (Feb 9, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> What dont you understand about the techniques having different effects??? And why dont you also understand that that was 1st for juubi (the weakest incarnation of the beast with a lower feat)???
> 
> A character weaker than the juubi can have an attack more potent e.g ohnoki with jinton, you keep treating PS blade like a juubi dama, they ARE NOT THE SAME, THUS HAVE DIFFERENT EFFECTS, we saw this on other forms of attacks also, hirodora not doing jack to juudara despite having massive aoe and sasuke's blade cutting madara in half despite having smaller aoe. Having larger AOE doesn't always mean being more potent. But despite all the examples i'll give, you'll still argue otherwise, eitherway this is not the thread for that.


So we find out, that YOU were the one who failed to to respond and that YES you do think Madara's slashes will hurt more than a Jubi beam. ( because reasons)
And yet you come in here cursing, talking shit and saying the opposite happened?

Jeez.


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 9, 2018)

-gai in gates is a glass canon
-onoki cannot weigh down an active lightning armor user
-bm choji has the most brute strength in the manga without using bijuu 
-hiramekarei is the strongest mist sword by far
-wind is a much better element than lightning _even when FRS & the W>L nature adv. is ignored_
-human path can effortlessly take totsuka & yata away from armed/manifested Itachi
-ST can dispel kamui & jin'ton


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## Troyse22 (Feb 9, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> then theres ... derp



Love that PiS

Sasuke would rather get a shitload of knives in his back than use like 0.001% of his stupid chakra levels to use ribcage or V2

But whatever

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Ultrafragor (Feb 9, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Love that PiS
> 
> Sasuke would rather get a shitload of knives in his back than use like 0.001% of his stupid chakra levels to use ribcage or V2
> 
> But whatever



I believe the comment later about his ocular powers returning was supposed to mean that his Mangekyo and Rinnegan were exhausted from dimension hopping and that's why he didn't just insta Shin.







It's interesting that both his Rinnegan and his Mangekyo become exhausted at the same time.

As if they are running on the same kind of chakra......


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## The_Conqueror (Feb 9, 2018)

SM jiraiya can beat Hanzo
From war arc the difference between Naruto and Sasuke is more then people think (In terms of both attack capacity and defense) 
WA base Naruto is more of a match to MS Itachi.  Any version of Naruto pastes Itachi


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## The Great One (Feb 10, 2018)

KC said:


> Hebi sasuke if not the most, is one of the most versatile shinobi to have been shown in the manga


Jiraya says hi

Reactions: Like 1


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## StandingMan (Feb 10, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> look at ma boi.... UNFAZED
> 
> He went on to heal it HEAL IT
> 
> WHo eLsE NeEded HeAlInG>?



Sasuke may have a lot of bullcrap in his favor with his eyes, but not instant healing.

So what?

He is still stronger than Tarduto and far more versatile. As Nardo is atrophying behind a desk, getting laughed at by his son; Sasuke is beating OP shinobi and training.

Also, who’s the mentor of the next savior of Leaf? It isn’t Boruto’s Dad...

EDIT: You know why there isn’t a Sarada’s Dad meme? Sasuke’s no Joke.


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## Buuhan (Feb 11, 2018)

LightningBlader said:


> Sasuke may have a lot of bullcrap in his favor with his eyes, but not instant healing.
> 
> So what?
> 
> ...


Who says Naruto isn't training? In one of the Boruto episodes he is actively using his abilities to train the leaf shinobi so its not a stretch to assume he keeps himself in physical shape. The notion that Hokages get weaker because of the position is old and honestly makes no sense considering what the position entails. Whos to say Sasuke just walks around a lot? lets break this down
- Kurama states Naruto is rusty. This entails that his battle senses have dulled, not that he is weaker or somehow inferior to Sasuke. Naruto gets hit by a sword and heals right after as if its nothing. Sasuke shields Sarada, but why not keep running with her and avoid the shuriken altogether? Why not use his ribcage Susanoo? Why not deflect it with his sword. IF he can have a drawn out shuriken battle with Itachi i see no problem with him deflecting them. Instead he just takes them to his back. Both cases scream PIS, but somehow Narutos is more valid that Sasukes?
- Who gave Boruto the genes that allowed him to even have a chance at being that strong? 
- Damn that meme sure showed me

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Marvel (Apr 11, 2018)

Bump


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## New Dawn (Apr 11, 2018)

Hidan stated not to have regen but his wounds heal instantly after battle.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Maverick04 (Apr 11, 2018)

New Dawn said:


> Hidan stated not to have regen but his wounds heal instantly after battle.


instantly
ˈɪnst(ə)ntli/
_adverb_

*1*.
at once; immediately.
"she fell asleep almost instantly"
synonyms: immediately, at once, straight away, right away, instantaneously, suddenly, abruptly, all of a sudden, on the instant, at a stroke, forthwith, then and there, there and then, here and now, this/that (very) minute, this/that instant; 
quickly, rapidly,swiftly, speedily, directly, without delay, promptly; 
in an instant, in a moment, in a (split) second, in a minute, in a trice, in a fraction of a second, in/like a flash, quick as lightning, like a shot, in a wink, in the blink of an eye, in the twinkling of an eye, in two shakes (of a lamb's tail),in (less than) no time, before you know it, on the double, at the speed of light, like an arrow from a bow;
tout de suite; 
_informal_in a jiffy,pronto, before you can say Jack Robinson, double quick, in double quick time, p.d.q. (pretty damn quick), like (greased) lightning, toot sweet; 
_informal_ekdam;
_archaic_straightway, instanter,forthright
"she fell asleep almost instantly"
Got hit by Asuma's Katon in chapter 323

Still having the wounds after chapter 327 on his right half


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## New Dawn (Apr 11, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> instantly
> ˈɪnst(ə)ntli/
> _adverb_
> 
> ...


What about his sternum and ribs that got completely crushed? And those arent wounds. They're ash dirt. U havent see 3rd degree burns before? What hidan got was childsplay.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Maverick04 (Apr 11, 2018)

New Dawn said:


> What about his sternum and ribs that got completely crushed? And those arent wounds. They're ash dirt. U havent see 3rd degree burns before? What hidan got was childsplay.


 
Same burn wound as Hidan..Case closed..Stop wanking hidan to the moon with your fanfic

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## New Dawn (Apr 11, 2018)

RahulPK04 said:


> Same burn wound as Hidan..Case closed..Stop wanking hidan to the moon with your fanfic


Contradictory. Case is still open. You havent shown the chest and sternum wounds. His body looks clean after repeated stabbings in the sternum and his body is still whole after they were crushed. Explain that.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Maverick04 (Apr 11, 2018)

New Dawn said:


> Contradictory


Contradictory to what?? you couldn't address the burn wounds..And which sternum wound are you talking about?? Nothing is ever stated about his healing being fast..Take your wank goggles off..And if by sternum wound you mean through stabbing, then you can't see those wounds coz he's wearing the Akatsuki robe..Show me any statement about his healing being instant..If not, then stop spewing crap and concede


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## Maverick04 (Apr 11, 2018)

New Dawn said:


> Contradictory. Case is still open. You havent shown the chest and sternum wounds. His body looks clean after repeated stabbings in the sternum and his body is still whole after they were crushed. Explain that.



Beginning of chapter 337



End of Chapter 337


No instant healing.


Show me his instant healing coz I'm curious now.. I have showed you multiple instances where Hidan didn't show any healing capabilities.. Make sure it isn't fanfic

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1 | Lewd 1


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## StandingMan (Apr 12, 2018)

Unpopular opinion:

Waterdome is overrated!

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## ARGUS (Apr 12, 2018)

My most “unpopular” opinion is that DMs Kakashi and toneri are not god tier characters


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## SakuraLover16 (Apr 12, 2018)

Sakura by adulthood is entry level high kage. This is extremely unpopular lol

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 12, 2018)

Hussain said:


> 11- Tsukyomi is overrated. It won't one-shot anyone worth his shit



^

Itachi used Tsukuyomi casually on Kakashi and he got hospitalized because of his new mental trauma. This is the same Kakashi who lost all of his direct family and his entire team, who were essentially his new family. The same Kakashi that fought in a war at a very young age. The same Kakashi that has clearly been through some tough shit was extremely phased by a casual Tsukuyomi use by Itachi. The only other times he used Tsukuyomi in canon was against Sasuke, who Itachi had no intention of killing or causing permanent mental trauma to. Naruto was outright saying that Tsukuyomi was a GG. KCM Naruto.


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## Crow (Apr 12, 2018)

Like @Godaime Tsunade said I think Tsunade or Sakura could shrug off a Tsukuyomi. Tsunade healed Sasuke's Tsukuyomi's mental trauma with just a wave of a hand. 

Also Minato is the strongest Konoha Kage we've seen besides Hashirama and Naruto
Hiruzen was indeed the strongest Kage of his Generation
Kisame is weaker than KCM Naruto.
Onoki is overrated
Sakura is severely underrated
Gaara is the strongest of the Gokage and he can beat all of them 1v1
Gaara could've killed Sasori if he caught him while he was in Hiruko.

Oh... and NARUTO HAS BEEN STRONGER THAN SASUKE SINCE HE GOT SAGE MODE.


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 12, 2018)

Knight of Chaos said:


> Like @Godaime Tsunade said I think Tsunade or Sakura could shrug off a Tsukuyomi. Tsunade healed Sasuke's Tsukuyomi's mental trauma with just a wave of a hand.
> 
> Also Minato is the strongest Konoha Kage we've seen besides Hashirama and Naruto
> Hiruzen was indeed the strongest Kage of his Generation
> ...



I don't think that they'll shrug it off. If they are so mentally unstable that they can't heal themselves, then they're screwed. It depends on how insane Itachi makes the Tsukuyomi


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## Crow (Apr 12, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> I don't think that they'll shrug it off. If they are so mentally unstable that they can't heal themselves, then they're screwed. It depends on how insane Itachi makes the Tsukuyomi



Sakura didn't get caught by Toneri's genjutsu did she? And Toneri is soo many tiers above Itachi. Soo yeah. Also Sakura and Tsunade are experts at Chakra control. They could sense their chakra being disrupted once the Genjutsu begins and break themselves out of it in my opinion. Sakura as a genin broke out of a genjutsu that chunin and jonin in the croud got caught by. And Kakashi always said Sakura had an aptitude for genjutsu.


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 12, 2018)

Knight of Chaos said:


> Sakura didn't get caught by Toneri's genjutsu did she? And Toneri is soo many tiers above Itachi. Soo yeah.



I know borderline nothing about The Last or the newer era in general, so I have no idea what you're talking about.



Knight of Chaos said:


> Also Sakura and Tsunade are experts at Chakra control. They could sense their chakra being disrupted once the Genjutsu begins and break themselves out of it in my opinion. Sakura as a genin broke out of a genjutsu that chunin and jonin in the croud got caught by. And Kakashi always said Sakura had an aptitude for genjutsu.


It's somewhat difficult to break a Genjutsu when you do not meet the prerequisites to break it. Sakura and Tsunade are not Uchihas nor do they posses the Sharingan.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 13, 2018)

Tsunade cant heal Tsukuyomi...She healed the SYMPTOMS of Tsukuyomi

Thats like saying i cured someone of cancer because i gave them a joint and they got a bit peckish...

I didnt cure shit...I treated a symptom of cancer...Their appetite

That logic makes no sense


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## Marvel (Apr 13, 2018)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Sakura by adulthood is entry level high kage. This is extremely unpopular lol


And wrong too.


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 13, 2018)

Here's a few more
- Hebi Sasuke would've fallen to a serious Tsukuyomi
- Kisame was the strongest Akatsuki without a Dojutsu besides Orochimaru 
- Jiraiya loses to Orochimaru(no ET) if he doesn't start in SM  
- Yamato is physically unable to win fights

Reactions: Like 2


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## Miserea (Apr 13, 2018)

Jackalinthebox said:


> - Yamato is physically unable to win fights



Do you mind elaborating on this one?


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 13, 2018)

- Itachi faster than KCM's reaction speed(I've the whole scaled scan, can't post it because 'error')
- Killer Bee is faster than KCM.
- Itachi beats Edo Madara.
- Itachi doesn't require eye contact for Genjutsu.
-Itachi controls someone without detected by a Doujutsu user/sensor.
- Itachi can solo Akatsuki.
- Tsukiyomi one shots Hashirama. 
- Hashirama negs Edo Madara if he can use all of his techniques; *simultaneously.
- Itachi>>>>>Nagato.
- Kisame fast enough to keep up with KCM Naruto.


That's almost it; I guess.*

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Apr 13, 2018)

-P1 Kakashi can use Kamui without an effort.
-Deidara can put up good match with Itachi.
-Deidara and Sasori are equal.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 13, 2018)

Sage light said:


> Itachi faster than KCM's reaction speed(I've the whole scaled scan, can't post it because 'error')





Sage light said:


> Killer Bee is faster than KCM.





Sage light said:


> Itachi beats Edo Madara.





Sage light said:


> Itachi can solo Akatsuki.





Sage light said:


> Tsukiyomi one shots Hashira





Sage light said:


> Hashirama negs Edo Madara if he can use all of his techniques; *simultaneously.*



And Madara can neg if he usses all his techniques simultaneously. What's your point?



Sage light said:


> Itachi>>>>>Nagato.



Looks like Troyse was right about Kisame being Nagato level if Itachi is so much better.
Leg me guess, you're going to use scans of Itachi sealing Nagato to "help" your case?



Sage light said:


> Kisame _fast enough to keep up with KCM Naruto._



Yet he was blitzed so fast that he couldn't react.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 13, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


>


Lmfao.



> And Madara can neg if he usses all his techniques simultaneously. What's your point?


Not necessarily.

- SS takes care of Tengai Shinsei.
- Mokuryu absorbs his chakra negating Rinnegan absorption.
- Golem resists Kyuubi like in canon.
- Flower tree cancels flower tree.
- Tree Emergence cancels tree emergence.
- Deity Gates falls on Madara; suppressing his will.
- SM Hashirama God Gates tanked Juubi Tailed Beast Bomb; despite it blasting inside the Barrier.





> Looks like Troyse was right about Kisame being Nagato level if Itachi is so much better.
> Leg me guess, you're going to use scans of Itachi sealing Nagato to "help" your case?



Not necessarily.
- Summons including invisible king taken care with Kunai; hence 360° useless.
- fast enough to dodge ST, hence fast enough to dodge it's counterpart: BT.
- fast enough to blitz bee. 

Itachi: _ushiro.....

Bee: Wakata....

Proving Bee never reacted to Itachi's blitz. Latter exclaimed the fact which's when the dude at hand figured it out._





> Yet he was blitzed so fast that he couldn't react.


Not necessarily.

Kisame never expected it; a sudden attack which he never thought was possible since he thought he was undetectable. And yes that's a speed feat for Naruto but it doesnt mean _kisame can't react as he effortlessly kept up with V1 Bee and Bee rescued Naruto from Rinnegan Obito, several times in a row; even intercepted a punch from V1 A which is more difficult than dodging said punch; for obvious reasons; which Naruto at that point couldn't._

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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