# Would any other shinobi be able to destroy a village like Pein did?



## Hiruko2425 (Jul 7, 2013)

I was wondering does anyone think another shinobi could destroy a whole village like Pein did? You tell me if a someone could take down all of Iwagakure, Kumogakure, Sunagakure, Kirigakure, Konohagakure. Tell me which villages they could take down and which they couldn't.

Also if you think that one person couldn't take down a village list a pair that could take down a whole village.

Restrictions: Madara, Hashirama, Obito/Tobi, Nagato

Edit: One does not have to destroy all buildings, but one must be able to solo a village. So that doesn't mean that they have to destroy the village in one move. Also, all the villages have their Kages in the village to fight, but like in the anime and manga Konohagakure will not have Naruto until late in a fight and also I'll make it so it is the same situation in Kumogakure.


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## Jagger (Jul 8, 2013)

Konan or Deidara with enough Prep. time.

BM Naruto and Killer Bee with Bijuudama spam.

Wait, are you talking which shinobi with enough firepower can destroy the village in one attack or what kind of shinobi can solo a whole village like Pain like did?


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## trance (Jul 8, 2013)

Deidara - C3/C0
BM Naruto/Killer Bee - Bijudama
Onōki - Large scale Jinton (?)
Kakashi - Extra large scale Kamui(?) 
Gai - 7th Gate Hirudora(?)


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## Sadgoob (Jul 8, 2013)

Naruto, Bee, Deidara, and Kisame were the first to come to mnd.


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## Sans (Jul 8, 2013)

Rin was going to destroy Konoha if Kakashi didn't kill her.


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## joshhookway (Jul 8, 2013)

Deidara would fuck a city up


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## Pein (Jul 8, 2013)

Garra if he made enough sand, than it just a matter of crushing it all beneath a huge wave of sand.


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## Jagger (Jul 8, 2013)

Trance said:


> Kakashi - Extra large scale Kamui(?)


Wait what  .


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## trance (Jul 8, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Wait what  .



It's only in theory but if he had the entire village in his line of sight and with enough chakra, he could open a large scale Kamui and suck the village in. I'm not entirely sure, that's why I left this .


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## Jagger (Jul 8, 2013)

Trance said:


> It's only in theory but if he had the entire village in his line of sight and with enough chakra, he could open a large scale Kamui and suck the village in. I'm not entirely sure, that's why I left this .


It could be possible in theory, but find such a huge amount of chakra to teleport something as big as a whole village?


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 8, 2013)

Jagger said:


> It could be possible in theory, but find such a huge amount of chakra to teleport something as big as a whole village?



White Fang of Six Paths.


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## Rocky (Jul 8, 2013)

Trance said:


> It's only in theory but if he had the entire village in his line of sight and with enough chakra, he could open a large scale Kamui and suck the village in. I'm not entirely sure, that's why I left this .




What the actual fuc.....

Hahahah  

That's such a funny image man.  Kakashi would automatically become the most valuable Ninja in existence. Tsunade would have such fun. "Oh the hidden rock's giving us some trouble? It's cool, Kakashi go find high ground and look at it for me."


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## tanman (Jul 8, 2013)

Imagine if Kamui worked so that the chakra expenditure was based off of what Kakashi actually saw. Then if he were high up, he could warp away mountains and villages because they looked like ants. If he were on the Moon, he could warp away continents like it ain't no thang.


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## Coldhands (Jul 8, 2013)

Naruto, Killer B and Deidara are all capable of city-level nukes. Maybe Onoki too.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 8, 2013)

Deidera, Sasori (believe it or not), Kisame, Konan (with prep), Jinchuriki capable of using bijuudama, by hype (having greatest suitons) Tobirama should be capable, Muu, Onoki (maybe), Sasuke (depending if he uses kirin or not).

Basically shinobi with fire power, Nagato was an obvious choice so I didn't bother mentioning him, Madara, Hashi easily can, Obito would need prep but he could do it without prep, but it'd be a lot harder considering his only firepower is a big ass lolkaton


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 8, 2013)

Anyone who has access to a Bijuudama can destroy a village.
So would Deidara with his C3 or c0.
Kisame might be able to do it with a huge Tsunami.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 8, 2013)

*With ease:*


Deidara
Sasori
Anyone who can fire a Bijuu-dama
Anyone who can summon Gedo Mazo


*With effort/right conditions:*


Gaara
Kisame
Gai
Sandaime Raikage
Second Mizukage


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## trance (Jul 8, 2013)

Rocky said:


> What the actual fuc.....
> 
> Hahahah
> 
> That's such a funny image man.  Kakashi would automatically become the most valuable Ninja in existence. Tsunade would have such fun. "Oh the hidden rock's giving us some trouble? It's cool, Kakashi go find high ground and look at it for me."



Lol, it's an idea at least. Hey, it could happen.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jul 8, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> *With ease:*
> 
> 
> Deidara
> ...



Everybody under Gai and including Gai can only cause wide scale damage nothing close to destroying a village. They'll run out of chakra before they can accomplish this feat.

Even Sasori 100 puppets don't carry enough fire power in collateral damage to destroy a village in 1 go or prep time.


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## J★J♥ (Jul 8, 2013)

Onoki
1)Can drop a Island on it.
2)Jinton the hell out of it.
3)Mountain Sendwitch it.
Hashirama
1)Because he is Hashirama.
Deidara
If he goes Kamikadze on the Village.


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## Scarlet Ammo (Jul 8, 2013)

Yeah Sasori has taken over a nation before according to Sasori 

But in filler, the nation is really small and pathetic so...


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 8, 2013)

KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> Everybody under Gai and including Gai can only cause wide scale damage nothing close to destroying a village. They'll run out of chakra before they can accomplish this feat.
> 
> Even Sasori 100 puppets don't carry enough fire power in collateral damage to destroy a village in 1 go or prep time.



Point me to where the thread stipulates contestants are required to be able to destroy the village in a single go or that collateral damage is required as a measuring stick alongside body count.

Hirudora is HUGE and the aftershock alone destroys rock. Sandaime Raikage is invincible, can fight for days to the point of Bijuu-level stamina, is fast enough to kill dozens in an instant and will bulldoze the shit out of anything. Sasori has already conquered a nation with his 1,000 Puppets Technique. Mizukage was put under "With the right conditions" because, assuming it isn't a winter cold enough to cool it, he can simply release Joki Boi(?) and sit back as the series of infinite explosions solos the village.

Just my 2 cents,
Kenpachi TZ.


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## Krippy (Jul 8, 2013)

Deidara
Kisame
Kirabi
Naruto
Sasuke 
Nagato
Gaara


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 8, 2013)

Is the requirement to destroy all of the buildings? Or kill everyone inside? Not sure if I understand. Cause I see answers like "Sasori" and considering an injured beginning of part 2 Sakura took down multiple puppets on her own than basically one just needs 50 Sakura level combatants to defeat his puppet army. I am sure every village has way more than 50 Sakura level combatants so every village can dominate. This is not even including the kage level shinobi or even the jounin level ninja just the chuunin level ones. 50 high chuunin levels should take down the puppet army based on Sakura's performance.

Maybe is the job to destroy the entire village in one giant attack? Cause I don't think anyone can pull that off. BM Naruto is the only one I can see that can split up to confuse the people and unleash vicious firepower that no one can contain. 

Deidara's ass would get sensed in all of the villages. Raiton can cancel out his jutsu so a Kakashi could potentially take out a C3. Darui too. Oonoki uses jinton taking it out of existance. Gaara can block the C3. He could fly in going Kamikaze which would kill everyone. But are the people defenseless? Could they not stop it before he explodes? Does being IC matter here at all? Idk.

Kisame would get screwed by raiton/doton users. So Kumo and Iwa are out of the question. Naruto is in Konoha. Sand might count as doton to an extent so Gaara might help here as well.

Sasuke couldn't do much. He would get run down by BM Naruto, Kakashi, etc and killed. He gets sensed and murdered. Killer Bee/A are too much for him. Oonoki+his son are too much for him. I doubt he is defeating the entire Mist village on his own. Gaara+entire village should take him out too. Sasuke is actually one of the worst ones.

Gaara? Just not strong enough. Too many people that stand a chance against him 1 on 1 in the villages for me to think he can take one out alone.

Nagato could fly over the village and use Chou Shinra Tensei like Pain did so that is possible. As well as Naruto with bjuu dama spam and Kage Bunshin no jutsu. Only two that can really do it. However, I am still having trouble understanding exactly what needs to be done to be successful and if IC mindset has any bearing on this situation.


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## Hiruko2425 (Jul 8, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Konan or Deidara with enough Prep. time.
> 
> BM Naruto and Killer Bee with Bijuudama spam.
> 
> Wait, are you talking which shinobi with enough firepower can destroy the village in one attack or what kind of shinobi can solo a whole village like Pain like did?



Solo a whole village like Pain did.


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## Hiruko2425 (Jul 8, 2013)

The Prodigy said:


> Deidera, Sasori (believe it or not), Kisame, Konan (with prep), Jinchuriki capable of using bijuudama, by hype (having greatest suitons) Tobirama should be capable, Muu, Onoki (maybe), Sasuke (depending if he uses kirin or not).
> 
> Basically shinobi with fire power, Nagato was an obvious choice so I didn't bother mentioning him, Madara, Hashi easily can, Obito would need prep but he could do it without prep, but it'd be a lot harder considering his only firepower is a big ass lolkaton



Hashirama, Madara, Obito, and Nagato weren't allowed. I didn't say Nagato, but obviously Nagato is disallowed because I'm talking about Pain which is like Nagato.


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## Ennoia (Jul 8, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Point me to where the thread stipulates contestants are required to be able to destroy the village in a single go or that collateral damage is required as a measuring stick alongside body count.
> 
> Hirudora is HUGE and the aftershock alone destroys rock. Sandaime Raikage is invincible, can fight for days to the point of Bijuu-level stamina, is fast enough to kill dozens in an instant and will bulldoze the shit out of anything. Sasori has already conquered a nation with his 1,000 Puppets Technique. Mizukage was put under "With the right conditions" because, assuming it isn't a winter cold enough to cool it, he can simply release Joki Boi(?) and sit back as the series of infinite explosions solos the village.
> 
> ...



Each Kage can arguably beat Sasori on a neutral field, I dont think he is capable of beating a Kage with other nin in their respective villages.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 8, 2013)

Gaara
Onoki
Jiraiya
Tsunade
Orochimaru
Naruto
Sakura
Sasuke
Kakuzu
Konan
Chouji



Those are the only ones that spring to mind.​​


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## αce (Jul 8, 2013)

You're gonna have to elaborate. Sakura?


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 8, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Deidara
> Kisame
> Kirabi
> Naruto
> ...





Godaime Tsunade said:


> Gaara
> Onoki
> Jiraiya
> Tsunade
> ...


The problem with posts like these is that there is no elaboration. For instance, most Kages 1 on 1 could give people like Gaara, Kisame, Sasori, Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Tsunade, Oonoki, Kakuzu, Chouji, and Konan a fight. Sakura is basically Elite Jounin level with Katsuya's recent reveal and could die to people like Darui, Kakashi, Oonoki's son, Gaara, etc. So any of these people soloing one of the hidden villages seems laughable. Sasuke does not have the mass destruction abilities to pull it off.

Unless people mean that they can blow up buildings then posts like these do not make sense because the ninja in these villages would kill them. Only chance is by attacking with a single vicious attack in a sneak attack i.e. Deidara, Nagato, Naruto, Hashirama, Madara, etc and avoiding fighting anyone significant in single combat. Unless you are Naruto, Hashirama, or Madara since they are strong enough to take on multiple Kage level shinobi and can split up into multiple targets to split up the forces and pick them off one at a time as well as use huge powerful attacks.


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## Puppetry (Jul 8, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Cause I see answers like "Sasori" and considering an injured beginning of part 2 Sakura took down multiple puppets on her own.



She defeated _one_ and was protected by Chiyo from another. Her injuries only consisted of a single scratch, which never truly hindered her performance. The only instance it was seemingly a drawback was _here,_ but she saved Chiyo regardless. Afterwards, she wasn't noticeably impaired.


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## joshhookway (Jul 8, 2013)

Tsunade is the weakest kage. How is she suppose to destroy the other villages?


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## Sadgoob (Jul 8, 2013)

I don't think any of the Gokage would stand a chance against Kisame on their own... and I believe Gaara (in the desert) would easily defeat any of his peers.  And they both have the jutsu to sweep away lesser ninja.

I haven't put too much thought into this thread, granted, but Pain didn't really come up against any Konoha powerhouses until Naruto. Danzō did nothing. Tsunade remanded herself to healing fodder. Gai was out of town.

Kakashi was his most challenging match, but he declined to use Kamui offensively. So under those circumstances, you don't really need to be Hashirama or Madara to make a lot of leeway.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 8, 2013)

Puppetry said:


> She defeated _one_ and was protected by Chiyo from another. Her injuries only consisted of a single scratch, which never truly hindered her performance. The only instance it was seemingly a drawback was _here,_ but she saved Chiyo regardless. Afterwards, she wasn't noticeably impaired.


I know it only shows one, but I presume that she hit at least one more since some of it is off panel. My point stands about Sasori. Even if the number changes to 100 Sakura level combatants (100 high chuunin) then it makes no difference. The point is that even without any kage level combatants or even jounin level combatants, Sasori can not solo a village. And her injuries were more than single scratch.

_here,_
_here,_
Sakura got blasted by an explosive tag from point blank, had multiple cuts, slashed by the cord (you mentioned this), and was even stabbed with a sword later on in the fight.

_here,_
Chiyo even says she should be out of chakra and at her limit. And still heals after this is said. And she gets a major cut to her torso. So she should already be at her limit but gets more injured and uses more chakra. And she was still impaired. Just cause she is not bitching about it in every panel does not mean it is not affecting her fighting. 50 exhausted, injured high chuunin levels or maybe 25 fully healthy high chuunin levels to handle the jutsu.



joshhookway said:


> Tsunade is the weakest kage. How is she suppose to destroy the other villages?


Mei is. But your point is solid.



Strategoob said:


> I don't think any of the Gokage would stand a chance against Kisame on their own... and I believe Gaara (in the desert) would easily defeat any of his peers.  And they both have the jutsu to sweep away lesser ninja.
> 
> I haven't put too much thought into this thread, granted, but Pain didn't really come up against any Konoha powerhouses until Naruto. Danzō did nothing. Tsunade remanded herself to healing fodder. Gai was out of town.
> 
> Kakashi was his most challenging match, but he declined to use Kamui offensively. So under those circumstances, you don't really need to be Hashirama or Madara to make a lot of leeway.


A, Tsunade, Oonoki, and Gaara stand a chance against Kisame. And even in a desert I doubt he could easily defeat Tsunade, Oonoki, or A.

That's why I don't get what the requirement is. Jump in and just destroy all of the buildings? Kill EVERYONE? Idk.

Exactly. So does every village have only 1 of their top combatants ready for battle? Kumo gets Darui, Konoha gets Kakashi, Iwa gets Oonoki's son, Mist gets the swordsman kid, and Suna gets Kankurou? Then just a bunch of random chuunin/jounin? Idk myself.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 9, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Each Kage can arguably beat Sasori on a neutral field, I dont think he is capable of beating a Kage with other nin in their respective villages.



Aside from Raikage, Gaara and Konoha? I can't find any strengths that would compensate for lacking experience against puppet masters in the other villages. That makes it too easy for Sasori when a single scratch = win.


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## Hoshigaki Kisame (Jul 9, 2013)

Kisame can for sure. He can literally just flood an entire village with a tsunami and everything will get destroyed.


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## trance (Jul 9, 2013)

Sasuke can probably with Kirin.

Could Jiraiya if he puts enough chakra into Doton: Yomi Numa? Maybe if Sage Mode.


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## Ennoia (Jul 9, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Aside from Raikage, Gaara and Konoha? I can't find any strengths that would compensate for lacking experience against puppet masters in the other villages. That makes it too easy for Sasori when a single scratch = win.



Raikage also has Darui whom is a capable swordsman with a KKG and Dodai just to name two. Gaara has his brother and sister one of whom Sasori praised and the other which can mow down puppets. Konoha need not be explained. 

Kiri has the Mizukage whom has Lava release and has shown the ability to use it in high amounts and in an environment with an abundance of water and the ability to use high level water release I think she can easily destroy Sasori's puppets. Ao can find his weak spot and Chojuro is also a more than capable swordsman with a shapeshifting sword. Even if you add in a handful of Jonin with an affinity for water his puppets are easily destroyed.

I shouldnt really have to explain Iwa.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 9, 2013)

KisameHoshigaki said:


> Kisame can for sure. He can literally just flood an entire village with a tsunami and everything will get destroyed.



Which is something that is highly conditional. Where is he going to get the water and/or chakra to pull that off?


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## Puppetry (Jul 9, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> I know it only shows one, but I presume that she hit at least one more since some of it is off panel.



There was only _one_ defeated puppet in front of Sakura. If Kishimoto intended to show that Sakura was capable of defeating numerous puppets without aid, he did a very poor job. 



> And her injuries were more than single scratch.



She did sustain the injuries you listed, but she was also shown _healing_ all _major_ injuries, which is why I excluded them. Whatever significant damage acquired was healed. If it wasn't healed, then by default it wasn't critical enough to deter her.



> Chiyo even says she should be out of chakra and at her limit.



I think Chiyo's comment is more a testament to Sakura's stamina than it an indication of her limits; she says Sakura 'should' be exhausted and then goes on to say 'but,' implying she isn't. This is hinted at even further by Sakura's continued use of the very abilities that Chiyo listed as taxing—_superhuman strength,_ _evasion_ and even _medical ninjutsu._ And apparently she was also concurrently reserving chakra for _Byakugō._


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## Hoshigaki Kisame (Jul 9, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Which is something that is highly conditional. Where is he going to get the water and/or chakra to pull that off?



Water: If he wants to eradicate Kirigakure, he can easily get enough water to do it. Don't know for the other villages though since they don't have any water sources.

Chakra: Kisame has Bijuu level Chakra. Pulling off a Tsunami would be fairly easy for him.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 9, 2013)

KisameHoshigaki said:


> Water: If he wants to eradicate  Kirigakure, he can easily get enough water to do it. Don't know for the  other villages though since they don't have any water sources.
> 
> Chakra: Kisame has Bijuu level Chakra. Pulling off a Tsunami would be fairly easy for him.



As you've said, he's not getting sufficient water from other villages. As for having Bijuu-level chakra, his better/best feats have been performed while high on Gyuki's chakra, yet even then he's required a water source do anything we could call close to a tsunami.



Ennoia said:


> Raikage also has Darui whom is a capable swordsman with a KKG and Dodai just to name two. Gaara has his brother and sister one of whom Sasori praised and the other which can mow down puppets. Konoha need not be explained.



"Aside from Raikage, Gaara and Konoha?" implied Sasori's not winning.



Ennoia said:


> Kiri has the Mizukage whom has Lava release and has shown the ability to use it in high amounts and in an environment with an abundance of water and the ability to use high level water release I think she can easily destroy Sasori's puppets. Ao can find his weak spot and Chojuro is also a more than capable swordsman with a shapeshifting sword. Even if you add in a handful of Jonin with an affinity for water his puppets are easily destroyed.



It is safe to say Sasori does this the moment a Kage and their backup team shows up. GG for most, if not all, of them.



Ennoia said:


> I shouldnt really have to explain Iwa.



It's an invasion, not a fight on a distant battlefield. They're going to literally fold their village in half just to squash Sasori? I think not.

Just my 2 cents,
Kenpachi TZ.


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## Ennoia (Jul 9, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> "Aside from Raikage, Gaara and Konoha?" implied Sasori's not winning.


My bad home slice, I thought you meant they were the only ones in those villages to put up a fight.



> It is safe to say Sasori does this the moment a Kage and their backup team shows up. GG.


Onoki reacted to Madara's attack, I dont think hes going down like that. Mei is questionable but Ao can see the build up of chakra and I question the effectiveness of that jutsu outside of a closed area.



> It's an invasion, not a fight on a distant battlefield. They're going to literally fold their village in half just to squash Sasori? I think not.


Im sure he dosent need to use that scale of attack but it shows what he alone is capable of; even half or a third of that attack is sufficient especially if Sasori is preoccupied with other nin. You also have Onoki whom is more than capable of reacting to the puppets and using Jinton which cannot be blocked. You also have Kurotsuchi to seal Sasori's movements and they all have multiple ways to block Sasori's attacks.


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## ueharakk (Jul 9, 2013)

Individuals strong enough to defeat the weakest of the 5 villages on their own:

- Naruto
- Sasuke
- Killer bee
- people you restricted
- Kabuto w/ ET
- Orochimaru w/ ET


Individuals who can pretty much do what pein did (city leveler):
- Bee (rapidfire bijuudama)
- Naruto (super bijuudama)

Deidara ain't no city leveler.  Not when a *KN6 bijuudama* wrecks only a small portion of what Kishi considers a city.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 9, 2013)

Puppetry said:


> There was only _one_ defeated puppet in front of Sakura. If Kishimoto intended to show that Sakura was capable of defeating numerous puppets without aid, he did a very poor job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The battle had been going on for some time. Sakura does have legs and jumps around. Just like we don't see all of the puppets Chiyo has already destroyed, we don't see all of the ones she has destroyed. And Sakura's hits can send puppets flying potentially.

She actually stopped the bleeding in the big injuries. Meaning she did not stop the bleeding in ALL of the injuries nor did she heal all of the BIG injuries just stopped the bleeding. She was still injured. I already mentioned the healing in my previous post. Just because she stopped some of the bleeding does not mean it did not deter her because she did not stop ALL of the bleeding nor did she heal ALL of her wounds. She was injured. And of course that "scratch" you mentioned was pretty severe as well.

Considering Sakura's panting and evidently battered appearance, it has to do with her limits as well. She is close to her limit though. She was panting extremely hard and could not even afford to heal all of her wounds. She then punches Sasori, gets more injured, and  Even after all of this, she destroys said puppet. And notice that after she threw that thing at Sasori (right after destroying the puppet) she is panting even harder and sweating, can't even stand up straight.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 9, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> My bad home slice, I thought you meant they were the only ones in those villages to put up a fight.



More like Raikage and Gaara could potentially solo if they wanted to, making backup irrelevant. 



Ennoia said:


> Onoki reacted to Madara's attack, I dont think hes going down like that. Mei is questionable but Ao can see the build up of chakra and I question the effectiveness of that jutsu outside of a closed area.



Ao seeing the chakra build-up means nothing for him or the others to dodge an attack that branches so unpredictably over such a wide space. Remember that the fight was in a cave? Well, closed spaces clearly mean nothing.



Ennoia said:


> Im sure he dosent need to use that scale of attack but it shows what he alone is capable of; even half or a third of that attack is sufficient especially if Sasori is preoccupied with other nin.



Gedo Mazo is _*waaaay*_ too large for even a jutsu to crush something 1/3 its size not use up a sizable area. I'll ask again: why would they fold (part of) their own village to crush Sasori?



Ennoia said:


> You also have Onoki whom is more than capable of reacting to the puppets and using Jinton which cannot be blocked. You also have Kurotsuchi to seal Sasori's movements and they all have multiple ways to block Sasori's attacks.



Jinton? Within his own village? Not happening. Seal Sasori's movements... You mean the jutsu that is easily avoidable and is a two-step process? That woman's getting killed.

Please list these ways to block Sasori's attacks.

Just my 2 cents,
Kenpachi TZ.


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## Puppetry (Jul 9, 2013)

Rosencrantz, before we continue, I must ask: to what degree do you believe Sakura's wounds/exhaustion affected her performance? Do you believe this supposedly weaker Sakura would be capable of replicating the feats of her healthier form?


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## Sadgoob (Jul 9, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> A, Tsunade, Oonoki, and Gaara stand a chance against Kisame.



I really don't think they do. Kisame giant absorbing bullet technique would trump Ōnoki's jinton, and none of the Kages are likely escaping the waterdome, and the same goes for lesser ninja (although Darui might be a problem.) 



Rosencrantz said:


> And even in a desert I doubt he could easily defeat Tsunade, Oonoki, or A.



Ōnoki could potentially be a problem with evasive flight, but I don't think so. Gaara's feats against Deidara were on a pretty massive scale, and Deidara only outsmarted Gaara by mixing clay with sand. Ōnoki isn't so subtle.



Rosencrantz said:


> That's why I don't get what the requirement is. Jump in and just destroy all of the buildings? Kill EVERYONE? Idk.
> 
> Exactly. So does every village have only 1 of their top combatants ready for battle? Kumo gets Darui, Konoha gets Kakashi, Iwa gets Oonoki's son, Mist gets the swordsman kid, and Suna gets Kankurou? Then just a bunch of random chuunin/jounin? Idk myself.



I'm just assuming that the villages are at about the same resistance-strength as Konoha initially was against Pain, but giving them even more benefits in the sense that they're immediately aiming for destruction.

Pain initially split-up and interrogated people to find Naruto, which would have backfired if the real elites were around and at their best. But if Pain were initially seeking destruction, then Konoha would have been blindsided...


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 9, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> I really don't think they do. Kisame giant absorbing bullet technique would trump Ōnoki's jinton, and none of the Kages are likely escaping the waterdome, and the same goes for lesser ninja (although Darui might be a problem.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oonoki with his flight might be able to avoid the dome altogether. If he gets trapped a potential spinning jinton attack would clear out the water for him to escape. He could potentially just avoid the giant shark. Gaara is in the same boat for avoiding it and could potentially make an orb to shield himself and give himself air. Then get the hell out. A with his raiton may be able to cause some serious damage to Kisame and with his strength and speed he may be able to escape the dome. Tsunade may be able to use Katsuya and have her split up while spewing acid to allow her to escape. It also might not be wise to attack Tsunade up close, even underwater since her punch could still cause damage. Not saying the Kages can definitely win, but they can definitely fight him. And doton trumps suiton. 

Oonoki was fast in mid air. At least as fast as Deidara. Oonoki has jinton though and can use a number of bunshins which makes catching him even harder. Tsunade/A have the strength to break through his sand as well. That doesn't mean that is the only way Gaara can lose.

Well at that strength, none of the powerhouses are even there. Basically once you get through the 1 kage level in the village, it is a cake walk. Well maybe. Konoha had Shikaku, Shikamaru, Inoichi, Chouza, Pre-Butterfly Chouji, Kiba's mother, Sakura, Kiba, Shino, Shino's dad, a couple Aburames, an Akimichi, ANBU with access to strong raiton, fuuton, and doton, Hinata, random Hyuuga, Ino, Konohamaru, Ibiki,  Shizune, Sarutobi clan members, random clan members from Hyuuga, Aburame, Inuzuka, Nara, Akimichi, and Yamanaka, etc. So basically if we assume each village has a team consisting of a power equal to this group, then the question becomes who can deal with this group of shinobi coming at him/her all at once.

Yeah definitely.



Puppetry said:


> Rosencrantz, before we continue, I must ask: to what degree do you believe Sakura's wounds/exhaustion affected her performance? Do you believe this supposedly weaker Sakura would be capable of replicating the feats of her healthier form?


Doubtful. She was injured, breathing heavily, and was getting close to her limit. After she punched that puppet, she ran and threw that seal. She then could barely stand, was sweating her ass off, and panting heavily. Just using common sense, when one is tired, one's reflexes are somewhat lowered, one is slower, one can not think as clearly, one's skill/form suffers, one is weaker physically, etc. And of course injured as well. So no she is obviously not going to be as efficient of a combatant as she would be in a healthy state.


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## FlamingRain (Jul 9, 2013)

Since you said "like Pain", I'm just assuming that the villages are going to put forth about as much resistance as Konoha initially was.

*Definitely:*


Naruto
Killer Bee
Orochimaru with _Edo Tensei_
Kabuto with _Edo Tensei_
*Potentially, would do considerable damage:*


Jiraiya- grabs a few dozen microphones in his hair and has Ma and Pa use _Gamarinsho_ where everyone can hear it before cleaning up with massive toad collaboration Ninjutsu.
Tsunade- could likely have pocket sized Katsuyus sneak up on a tremendous number of people (almost like Deidara's spiders in Sunagakure, but way, way more) and channel an offensive Medical Ninjutsu through them such as what she was going to use on Orochimaru and/or what Kabuto did to Kiba.
Sasuke Uchiha- spams _Enton_ and _Amaterasu_ until the village itself is a pile of black flames.
Deidara- nukes with _C3_ from the skies.
Gaara- he flips Sunagakure over cuz it's almost made of sand. 
Sandaime Raikage- like 95% of the people who face him won't be able to hurt him, and he'll bulldoze right through them for three days.
Nidaime Mizukage- releases _Joki Boy_ into the village while he hides, and it explodes until everyone dies.
Kakashi Hatake- I like the "find high ground and look at Iwagakure" tactic, Rocky.


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## Stermor (Jul 9, 2013)

lol at sasuke or itachi soloing a village.. remember sasuke couldn't hold his ms for 10 mintus during the danzo fight.. 

lol at him setting a hole village on fire.. 

also people like the sandaime raikage quite a powerful opponent but he just lacks the dc.. him destroying building punch by punch is just going to take to long.. every village will be able to trap him before he can destroy everything.. 

you are going to need huge aoe attacks and the stamina to keep up.. which pretty much means jinchuuriki's sages.. deidara.. 

anyway it also depends on what village you want to destroy.. since for instance konoha has naruto.. who can just fling bijuudama's away..


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## jorge2060 88 (Jul 9, 2013)

Stermor said:


> lol at sasuke or itachi soloing a village.. remember sasuke couldn't hold his ms for 10 mintus during the danzo fight..
> 
> lol at him setting a hole village on fire..
> 
> ...


Guess you haven't been reading the manga for a while


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## butcher50 (Jul 9, 2013)

Hiruko2425 said:


> I was wondering does anyone think another shinobi could destroy a whole village like Pein did?



sure.

just pump enough chakra (from whatever the hell source you can find and hook up into)

and have a spare kidney or heart ready for emergency transplantation when you get yours to burst.


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## Stermor (Jul 9, 2013)

jorge2060 88 said:


> Guess you haven't been reading the manga for a while



i have... so what is your point ?? 

ever seen black fire cover a village?? nope, didn't happen in the manga.. did you see how long ms lasted ?? yep less then ten minuts... .....


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## jorge2060 88 (Jul 9, 2013)

Stermor said:


> i have... so watch your point ??
> 
> every seen black fire cover a village?? nope didn't happen in the manga.. did you see how long ms lasted ?? yep less then ten minuts... .....



i guess you missed the whole part were sasuke got  an EMS and then proceeded to use his new eyes against kabuto where he used various techniques that used to wipe out his stamina without breaking a sweat. he can spam amaterasu and enton  that the village has no way to put out from a distance and just wait for kirin to be prepped to futher destroy  the village.


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## Ennoia (Jul 9, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> More like Raikage and Gaara could potentially solo if they wanted to, making backup irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Ao seeing the chakra build-up means nothing for him or the others to dodge an attack that branches so unpredictably over such a wide space. Remember that the fight was in a cave? Well, closed spaces clearly mean nothing.


Ill give you Mei because the Mist has no feats lol



> Gedo Mazo is _*waaaay*_ too large for even a jutsu to crush something 1/3 its size not use up a sizable area. I'll ask again: why would they fold (part of) their own village to crush Sasori?
> 
> Jinton? Within his own village? Not happening. Seal Sasori's movements... You mean the jutsu that is easily avoidable and is a two-step process? That woman's getting killed.


Lol your missing the point of what im saying. Even just folding up a block of the city is capable of killing Sasori (Kitsuchi specializes in this jutsu) and Onoki does not need to nuke the city to kill Sasori because Sasori cannot block, he he has to dodge and his puppets arnt exactly nimble. You also say easily avoidable but show one of the smartest ninja we have seen got caught and she can can put the lava on his puppets. Your only looking at the potential large scale, these people can scale their jutsu down inside of the village.



> Please list these ways to block Sasori's attacks.


Jinton because it can both attack and defend and multiple earth style jutsu.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 9, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Lol your missing the point of what im saying.  Even just folding up a block of the city is capable of killing Sasori  (Kitsuchi specializes in this jutsu)



Assuming he isn't killed in the Satetsu Kaihou as he's likely to be in the Kage's entourage, fair enough. I'll give them a win scenario.



Ennoia said:


> and Onoki does not need to nuke  the city to kill Sasori because Sasori cannot block, he he has to dodge  and his puppets arnt exactly nimble.



His ranged Jinton has collateral damage so that's out the way. His close-range Jinton requires him to be... close-range. Without a puppet master's level of experience, he's not getting there with any ease, if at all.



Ennoia said:


> You also say easily avoidable but  show one of the smartest ninja we have seen got caught and she can can  put the lava on his puppets.



Because you need to be smarter than Kabuto to cleanly dodge a jutsu you have no knowledge of rather than simply jump it and let it wash under you?

There's 1,000 of them. She's getting killed.



Ennoia said:


> Jinton because it can both attack and defend and multiple earth style jutsu.



Unless Onoki can cover himself or his allies in a Jinton box, it is pointless when Sasori can redirect attacks around it. First barrier isn't protecting anyone from anything. Second link is pointless. Third jutsu isn't blocking Iron Sand and only destroying some puppets at best. Fourth jutsu is debatable, but nonetheless, Sasori redirects Iron Sand around it.

Just my 2 cents,
Kenpachi TZ.


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## Bonly (Jul 9, 2013)

Kabuto
Orochi
Naruto
Killer B.
Muu.

They are the first to come to my mind.


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## Ennoia (Jul 9, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> His ranged Jinton has collateral damage so that's out the way. His close-range Jinton requires him to be... close-range. Without a puppet master's level of experience, he's not getting there with any ease, if at all.


He dosent have to get close though and if you look at the collateral damage that is only from the two of them colliding, we know it has no collateral damage because both times when it was used without colliding it didnt explode (Against Sasuke and Madara). He can just adjust the size to what is necessary.




> Because you need to be smarter than Kabuto to cleanly dodge a jutsu you have no knowledge of rather than simply jump it and let it wash under you?
> 
> There's 1,000 of them. She's getting killed.


But the thing is that it is not that obvious to dodge it all the way especially in a situation where he is trying to take down a village. Granted its a long shot but it is very much possible especially if he were to be surrounded or facing Onoki and she does that behind him.

She also dosent have many feats but I have no doubts that she can protect herself with Doton considering she and her dad was capable of pulling the Zetsu out of the ground.



> Unless Onoki can cover himself or his allies in a Jinton box, it is pointless when Sasori can redirect attacks around it. First barrier isn't protecting anyone from anything. Second link is pointless. Third jutsu isn't blocking Iron Sand and only destroying some puppets at best. Fourth jutsu is debatable, but nonetheless, Sasori redirects Iron Sand around it.


First link stops projectiles, second is a Doton wall (which we can assume is similar if not superior to Sarutobi's given Kitsuchi's previous feats) that can stop incoming puppets and projectiles, the point of the third is to help while attacking puppets and the fourth stops Satetsu Kaihou or various Iron Sand attacks. Sasori hasnt exactly been nimble with Iron Sand to say he simply redirects it, most of his attacks with it were pretty much linear.

I could actually pretty much say Onoki solos because there is nothing the puppets can do be it Kazekage or the 100, with Kitsuchi its overkill.


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## Hiruko2425 (Jul 9, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> He dosent have to get close though and if you look at the collateral damage that is only from the two of them colliding, we know it has no collateral damage because both times when it was used without colliding it didnt explode (Against Sasuke and Madara). He can just adjust the size to what is necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I feel like you and Kenpachi are making this thread into a onoki vs Sasori thread.


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## Ennoia (Jul 9, 2013)

Hiruko2425 said:


> I feel like you and Kenpachi are making this thread into a onoki vs Sasori thread.



Sasori vs Iwa, not Onoki. From what I gather Kenpachi was saying they cant win because Onoki wont use Jinton in the village. Im trying to explain he and his son dont have to nuke to win and still have ways to defend themselves aside from Jinton or turning Sasori into a sandwich. Might be unnecessary though lol :amazed

When I think about it I think its hard to say someone can solo a village because we have very little info on villages aside from a handful of people from each.


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## Hiruko2425 (Jul 9, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Sasori vs Iwa, not Onoki. From what I gather Kenpachi was saying they cant win because Onoki wont use Jinton in the village. Im trying to explain he and his son dont have to nuke to win and still have ways to defend themselves aside from Jinton or turning Sasori into a sandwich. Might be unnecessary though lol :amazed
> 
> When I think about it I think its hard to say someone can solo a village because we have very little info on villages aside from a handful of people from each.



Thank you for telling me what your little conversation was about( I'm serious I was lost). Also your last statement is true that we really don't know a lot about the villages accept for some people. Although judging by the databook( which sometimes is unreliable) you can see how strong a villages military strength is.


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Jul 9, 2013)

Given that the blast radius of Deidara's C0 is several kilometers, and that even his lesser C4 would have destroyed Sunagakure if Gaara hadn't intervened, I would assume that he certainly could.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Jul 10, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> He dosent have to get close though and if you look at the collateral damage that is only from the two of them colliding, we know it has no collateral damage because both times when it was used without colliding it didnt explode (Against Sasuke and Madara). He can just adjust the size to what is necessary.



That is the same cone Jinton that Akatsuchi stopped him from using for reasons of collateral damage. Thus far, the only Jinton you've shown me that would be usable within Iwa is the cube Jinton. And I've told you how much of a disadvantage that leaves Onoki if he needs to be close-range to do it.



Ennoia said:


> But the thing is that it is not that obvious to dodge it all the way especially in a situation where he is trying to take down a village. Granted its a long shot but it is very much possible especially if he were to be surrounded or facing Onoki and she does that behind him.



I'm questioning how usable such a jutsu would be in the first place because if Onoki is on the scene, Satetsu Kaihou would likely follow. Even assuming that she's among the survivors (which really is a roll of dice as to who, if anyone, survives or not), there is no flat ground on which to trap Sasori on.



Ennoia said:


> She also dosent have many feats but I have no doubts that she can protect herself with Doton considering she and her dad was capable of pulling the Zetsu out of the ground.



I'll need scans of some more defensive Doton jutsu if I am to address this properly.



Ennoia said:


> First link stops projectiles, second is a Doton wall (which we can assume is similar if not superior to Sarutobi's given Kitsuchi's previous feats) that can stop incoming puppets and projectiles, ... the fourth stops Satetsu Kaihou or various Iron Sand attacks. Sasori  hasnt exactly been nimble with Iron Sand to say he simply redirects it,  most of his attacks with it were pretty much linear.



First link would help with Iron Drizzle. Wouldn't be much use against the stronger projectiles.

Second link is pointless, because there's no reason why Iron Sand cannot be manipulated unlike Gaara's sand. A preference for turning the Iron Sand into iron spears, bullets and so on, doesn't exclude the ability to manipulate it in freer forms. That's why the use of walls and such are pointless when the Iron Sand has the potential for the flexibility of uses Gaara has made of his own sand. I'm not saying he can be as fluid as Gaara with usage of his Iron Sand... just that its not out of the question for him to employ similar uses.

And about Satetsu Kaihou... I didn't show you this scan. That, combined with the random branching and interconnecting of Sand, is why I'm skeptical of anything that isn't something like the Raikage's RnY, Gaara's sand or Konoha's access to Kamui being any use.



Ennoia said:


> I could actually pretty much say Onoki solos because there is nothing the puppets can do be it Kazekage or the 100, with Kitsuchi its overkill.



Assuming they're lucky enough to survive Satetsu Kaihou or Kitsuchi blindsides Sasori by showing up before/after Onoki does, yeah. If Kitsuchi isn't so lucky...

Just my 2 cents,
Kenpachi TZ.


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## Akitō (Jul 10, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Gaara
> Onoki
> Jiraiya
> Tsunade
> ...



How are Tsunade, Sakura, Kakuzu, Chōji and Konan beating an entire village? These hidden villages aren't just composed of random fodder shinobi - there'll be a lot of jōnin and at least one kage level shinobi. The kage alone might be able to beat the five that I mentioned, and then there's the thousands of others they've got to contend with. The only ones who can really take an entire village that you noted are Sasuke and Naruto, and even Sasuke isn't guaranteed because he can only hold Susano'o for so long. I guess he could use Kirin, but the chances of him preparing that without anybody noticing aren't good. Orochimaru, Jiraiya, Ōnoki and Garra aren't much stronger than an individual kage, and while they have some pretty impressive large-scale jutsu, those aren't going to be taking out the higher level jōnin and the kage. You could make an argument for Ōnoki and Orochimaru, but Jiraiya and Garra don't have nearly enough deadly large-scale techniques.


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## Turrin (Jul 10, 2013)

People are aware that OP isn't just looking for someone that has a Jutsu powerful enough to nuke a village, but rather looking for someone that is able to defeat a hidden village when members of that village step in to stop him/her. And he's asking this in the case of all Hidden Villages; Kiri, Suna, Iwa, Kumo, Konoha

So with that in mind most of the lists I'm seeing here don't make any sense. Let's take Deidara for example;

Deidara is unlikely to get past the weakest village Kiri as he'd be sensed by ether the village's innate defenses (which he only got by in Suna due to Sasori) or someone like AO. From there the Mist Shinobi would blind Deidara with mass Hidden Mist Spam. Than Mei can use her huge water dragon to destroy whatever clay bird Deidara is flying on bring him down to the ground. From there the sheer suiton spam between Mei & other Mist Shinobi , would overwhelm Deidara. On top of that Mist is aware of Deidara's weakness to Raiton, so if anyone in the entire Mist can use Raiton Deidara's even more screwed. 

Sungakuru would decimate Deidara even worse this time around as they are now aware of his weakness, Gaara/Kankuro/Temari are all much stronger, and this time Deidara would not have Sasori to get him past Suna's defenses unnoticed. 

I won't even go into the other ones as it just becomes an ungodly stomp.

Anyway moving onto characters that actually have a chance:

Orochimaru & Kabuto, if they prep Edo Tensei they can take down any one of these Hidden Villages. Rikudo is also another really obvious one. Just to get the obvious three that stomp the gauntlet out of the way.


J-man - if he had the chance to enter SM before the battle I could see him potentially being successful against the weakest village (Kiri). J-man has excellent infiltration techniques so he probably can get past the initial defenses of Kiri. Once he does ambush the village he has Jutsu which are excellent for crowd control; near army of summons & KB. Plus his large stamina supply especially in SM will guarantee he doesn't get over exhausted. Finally SM J-man is well above Mei's shown level so if he does end up engaging Mei + other Mist shinobi in combat he should be able to hold his own still. I know J-man also said before that he could probably take down Suna, but I doubt that is the case anymore now that Gaara has improved so much.

Edo Itachi - I could see Edo Itachi being successful in soloing Kiri, he's stronger than anyone there and w/o stamina limitations that he normally has he won't have to worry about becoming overly exhausted. Amaterasu is also good for crow control as it can be used to light the village a blaze causing panic and the villagers to loose focus on what Itachi is doing. However I don't think he'd be able to take down Suna as again Gaara in the desert + other suna shinobi seems like too much for Itachi to handle. 

Sasuke - Is pretty much the same deal as Itachi.

Mu - could also have a chance against Kiri if he used his stealth well enough to assassinate the top brass in Kiri (including Mei) and than nuked the village with Dust Release. However certainly there is a-lot of room for error here as well. And again he stops at Suna as Gaara would detect him

Onoki - might also be able to take down Kiri with massive Jinton or dropping a super weighted rock on the village. Again stops at Suna due to Gaara w/ desert.

Edo/KCM Minato - Can probably defeat any village if he is methodical in his approach enough. Send in clones to mark various strategical points as well as thin that villages forces. Create more clones and teleport them into the village ambushing everyone doing more damage and seeking to mark even more spots or important higher up people. Rinse and repeat until the village is too weak to handle a direct assault than summon out Toad Army and goto town. This would be especially effective against the Leaf Village due to Minato already having markings set up in it and Kumo due to the marking on B.

Naruto - Can solo all of the villages at this point. Iwa and Kumo are really the only ones with a chance to stop him. Iwa might be able to stop him if Jinton can block BM Naruto's tailed beast bombs and than they can force him into a pit like Juubi and binding him with Cement + Doton Sand-witch. Kumo might be able to stop him if they were to trick Naruto with the Amber Sealing pot, which they probably have a decent shot at. Though Naruto certainly could win as well. 

That's all I can think off for now


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## Bliss (Jul 10, 2013)

1.Deidara-complete anihilation without even trying.
2.Naruto/Kirabi-instant devastation.
3.Obito-no one will notice that a city stood there.


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## Puppetry (Jul 10, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> The battle had been going on for some time. Sakura does have legs and jumps around. Just like we don't see all of the puppets Chiyo has already destroyed, we don't see all of the ones she has destroyed.



We've reached an impasse. This scenario isn't impossible, it's just not indicated anywhere. We don't see her destroying multiple puppets, we don't see numerous puppets strewn about, and Sakura is close to Chiyo, implying that she moved very little. Lack of puppets surrounding Chiyo can be explained by the range of her technique and the area shown being small. 



> And Sakura's hits can send puppets flying potentially.



This has only occurred once when she struck Sasori's body, no doubt due to its superior quality. Hiruko - the only puppet who received durability hype - the Sandaime Kazekage, and the _AkaHigi_ puppet shown all shattered upon contact. There's no reason to the use exception as the rule.



> Meaning she did not stop the bleeding in ALL of the injuries.



Then where else is the bleeding? She had multiple abrasions but none of them were bleeding, meaning the blood coagulated and the bleeding was stopped.



> Nor did she heal all of the BIG injuries.



What precisely was left? The bleeding was stopped and the structural damage has been healed, as shown by her smooth arm. What 'other part' of the injury remains?



> And of course that "scratch" you mentioned was pretty severe as well.



It wasn't treated as such - it didn't stop her from grabbing Sasori's chord and after that instance, it isn't even drawn at all, despite panels of her _side_[[COLOR=%22Pink"]1] existing.



> Considering Sakura's panting and evidently battered appearance, it has to do with her limits as well.



Those don't always hint at limitations. Sasuke began panting _here_ and still managed to battle Danzō while retaining the full extent of his abilities for quite some time.



> She is panting even harder and sweating, can't even stand up straight.



And then she stands up straight and successfully intercepts Sasori.



> Doubtful.



Then what feats would she be incapable of replicating?


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## Sadgoob (Jul 10, 2013)

Akitō said:


> How are Tsunade, Sakura, Kakuzu, Chōji and Konan beating an entire village? These hidden villages aren't just composed of random fodder shinobi - there'll be a lot of jōnin and at least one kage level shinobi. The kage alone might be able to beat the five that I mentioned, and then there's the thousands of others they've got to contend with. The only ones who can really take an entire village that you noted are Sasuke and Naruto, and even Sasuke isn't guaranteed because he can only hold Susano'o for so long. I guess he could use Kirin, but the chances of him preparing that without anybody noticing aren't good. Orochimaru, Jiraiya, Ōnoki and Garra aren't much stronger than an individual kage, and while they have some pretty impressive large-scale jutsu, those aren't going to be taking out the higher level jōnin and the kage. You could make an argument for Ōnoki and Orochimaru, but Jiraiya and Garra don't have nearly enough deadly large-scale techniques.



I'd alternatively estimate the military demographics of a village to be this:


1-2 Kage Gaara
1-2 Elites Temari, Kankurō
x->∞ Fodder the "countless" shinobi base Sasuke easily wiped out

So if a Kage level can believably bring down the other Kage and their generals, then the thousands of other shinobi will surely fall with much more basic abilities. Sasuke took down countless fodder seemingly with taijutsu.

And from this viewpoint, Kirigakure is definitely the weakest because they essentially have Mei, Ao, Chōjūrō, and oodles of fodder. That particular line-up can be handled by a large number of Kage-levels.

Now, in support of this admittedly counterintuitive 'fodder viewpoint,' I'd like to point out how a realm of Pain as weak as Naraka managed to survive waltzing through a village for as long as it did... until Konohamaru met him.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 16, 2013)

Puppetry said:


> We've reached an impasse. This scenario isn't impossible, it's just not indicated anywhere. We don't see her destroying multiple puppets, we don't see numerous puppets strewn about, and Sakura is close to Chiyo, implying that she moved very little. Lack of puppets surrounding Chiyo can be explained by the range of her technique and the area shown being small.
> 
> 
> This has only occurred once when she struck Sasori's body, no doubt due to its superior quality. Hiruko - the only puppet who received durability hype - the Sandaime Kazekage, and the _AkaHigi_ puppet shown all shattered upon contact. There's no reason to the use exception as the rule.
> ...


We don't see the ones Chiyo destroyed strewn about. But she still destroyed them. But we can use common sense that Sakura had been fighting off panel for some time.

It still shows that a puppet could be sent flying. You already referenced the exception yourself. Some were destroyed and 1 was sent flying. So others could be sent flying. The possibility is there. That's the point. And that is all I needed to prove, which I did.

Sakura's words. Not mine. Be mad at Sakura for disproving your statements not me.

Just so you know, bruises, ruptured organs, cracked bones, etc are all injuries that can seriously affect someone.  Sakura's words means not all the injuries were healed. Again, be upset with Sakura, not me.

It showed that she suffered from it. You likely already know about the panel of her wincing from the pain. So it was treated as such.

The difference is that Sakura was already shown to be close to her limits earlier. Then she gets more injured, uses more chakra, and keeps fighting. Not only that but there is a lot more sweat, Sakura has her eyes closed, and she is bending over barely able to stand. You used a very terrible comparison due to context.

Indeed. In spite of her injuries and exhaustion.

Her feats when healthy. Do you not understand the concept of being injured and exhausted? Have you seriously never done an ounce of work in your life and never been tired? Have you never been bruised, bleeding, etc? Are you completely unable to understand said concept of not being 100 percent at all times?


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## itachixix (Jul 16, 2013)

Trance said:


> It's only in theory but if he had the entire village in his line of sight and with enough chakra, he could open a large scale Kamui and suck the village in. I'm not entirely sure, that's why I left this .



lol wouldn't the village still be in one piece, just in a different dimension


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## Puppetry (Jul 17, 2013)

This will be my last reply, I think. This debate has covered a fair bit of ground, but I sense the discussion has become circular. If you reply, I will read it, however. Still, there are a few more points I would like to make:



Rosencrantz said:


> It still shows that a puppet could be sent flying.



It shows a specific puppet did so - it isn't necessarily the standard or even a common trait, as all other references indicate otherwise. For the possibility to even be considered, you would have to prove that the puppets in question would, at the very least, be above Hiruko in terms of durability. There isn't any evidence to support that viewpoint.



> Sakura's words. Not mine.



Sakura's words don't contradict my statements. Sakura said she topped the bleeding of the major wounds; I asserted that her body naturally did the same for her minor injuries, evidenced by her glaring lack of bleeding.



> Bruises, ruptured organs, cracked bones, etc are all injuries that can seriously affect someone.



I'm speaking solely in the context of this match during the period we're discussing; Sakura wasn't shown receiving these injuries, it wasn't stated anywhere, nor was it drawn. She received multiple cuts of various sizes and only in the battle's final stages was there a possibility for a ruptured organ.



> The difference is that Sakura was already shown to be close to her limits earlier.



I think you're confusing separate parts of our debate. Here we were talking about when she healed Chiyo, not after she threw the seal at Sasori. You used panting to support that she was at her limits; Sasuke was in a similar position and still continued to fight Danzō at full power.



> Her feats when healthy.



Herein lies the issue - _what feats?_ You're creating a distinction that simply doesn't exist; Sakura's most impressive feats are the one she acquired while 'exhausted and injured.'  



> Are you completely unable to understand said concept of not being 100 percent at all times?



I understand this concept; I just don't believe it translates smoothly into Naruto, where determination has proven to allow high-level fighting despite injuries and exhaustion. Just look at Tsunade - whose will Sakura inherited - saveing Naruto multiple times and then kicking Orochimaru, despite him butchering her. Sakura isn't any different - when she was cut by his chord, when she shielded Chiyo against his deceptive attack, her consistent feats throughout the match - she tapped into a similar willpower.


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Jul 17, 2013)

Lets see: 

*Definite*:
EMS Sasuke(Enton spam+ Susanoo)
BM Naruto (self-explanatory)
MInato (Hirashin+Jikukan Barrier+ Yatai Kuzushi)
Orochimaru (Hydra + Edo Tensei + Kuchiyose)

*Maybe:*
Jiriaya (Frog Song, Yomi Numa , Yatai Kuzushi)
Kisame(Daikadaon, Waterdome)
Deidara(c4, C3, C0, C2)
Gaara (Desert Imperial Funeral)


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