# (Base) Nagato Yuki vs The Touhou-verse



## Red (Jan 2, 2011)

1 on 1 fight with all the characters, after each match she regens and faces off the next contender, how many does she beat?

 In character but battle oriented and ready to win fight takes place at random locations in Gensokyo.



List of Touhou characters:


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Main Characters*



*Hakurei Reimu*
*Hakurei Reimu (Young)*
 
*Kirisame Marisa*
*Kirisame Marisa (Young)*
Kirisame Marisa (Seihou)
 
*Highly Responsive to Prayers*



Genjii
Shingyouku
Yuugenmagan
Elis
Sariel
Mima
Kikuri
Konngara
*Story of Eastern Wonderland*



Rika
Meira
Evil Eye Sigma
*Phantasmagoria of Dimensional Dream*



Ellen
Kotohime
Kana Anaberal
Asakura Rikako
Kitashirakawa Chiyuri
Okazaki Yumemi
Ruukoto
Mimi-chan
*Lotus Land Story*



Orange
Kurumi
Elly
Kazami Yuuka
Kazami Yuuka (Young)
 
Mugetsu
Gengetsu
*Mystic Square*



Sara
Luize
Yuki
Mai
Yumeko
*Shinki*
Alice Margatroid (Young)
*The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil*



Rumia
Daiyousei
Cirno
Hong Meiling
Koakuma
Patchouli Knowledge
*Izayoi Sakuya*
*Remilia Scarlet*
*Flandre Scarlet*
*Perfect Cherry Blossom*



Letty Whiterock
Chen
Alice Margatroid
Lily White
Lunasa Prismriver
Merlin Prismriver
Lyrica Prismriver
*Konpaku Youmu*
*Saigyouji Yuyuko*
*Yakumo Ran*
*Yakumo Yukari*
*Ghostly Field Club*



Usami Renko
Maribel Hearn
*Immaterial and Missing Power*



*Ibuki Suika*
*Imperishable Night*



Wriggle Nightbug
Mystia Lorelei
*Kamishirasawa Keine*
*Ex-Keine*
 
Inaba Tewi
*Reisen Udongein Inaba*
*Yagokoro Eirin*
*Houraisan Kaguya*
*Fujiwara no Mokou*
*Eastern and Little Nature Deity*



Luna Child
Star Sapphire
Sunny Milk
*Phantasmagoria of Flower View*



Medicine Melancholy
Su-san
 
*Onozuka Komachi*
*Shameimaru Aya*
Shikieiki Yamaxanadu
*Silent Sinner in Blue*



Reisen
*Watatsuki no Yorihime*
*Watatsuki no Toyohime*
*Mountain of Faith*



Aki Shizuha
Aki Minoriko
Kagiyama Hina
Kawashiro Nitori
Inubashiri Momiji
*Kochiya Sanae*
*Yasaka Kanako*
*Moriya Suwako*
*Scarlet Weather Rhapsody*



Nagae Iku
Hinanawi Tenshi
*Subterranean Animism*



Kisume
Kurodani Yamame
Mizuhashi Parsee
Hoshiguma Yuugi
Komeiji Satori
Kaenbyou Rin
*Reiuji Utsuho*
Komeiji Koishi
*Undefined Fantastic Object*



Nazrin
Tatara Kogasa
Kumoi Ichirin
Murasa Minamitsu
Toramaru Shou
Hijiri Byakuren
Houjuu Nue
*Double Spoiler*



Himekaidou Hatate
*Wild and Horned Hermit*



Ibara Kasen




Names in bold are the ones who could beat her in my opinion. They have the techniques required and speed.

Your move Eldritch


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 2, 2011)

Doesn't it sound like a spite then?
Perhaps given if Yuki can't steal their powers.
Maybe a straight gauntlet would be much better.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 2, 2011)

Yuki jacks Yukari's powers with a wave of her hand and beats everyone at the same time.


----------



## Red (Jan 2, 2011)

skiboydoggy said:


> Yuki jacks Yukari's powers with a wave of her hand and beats everyone at the same time.


Can she do that on the fly? steal their powers with no prep whatsoever? And if she can there's no reason to think a copy would beat an original (don't bring Shiro into this )


willyvereb said:


> Doesn't it sound like a spite then?
> Perhaps given if Yuki can't steal their powers.
> Maybe a straight gauntlet would be much better.


 That's what it is. Its 1 on 1. She regens after each fight even if she  loses and continues to the next one. Plus I can't spite my favorite  character.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Jan 2, 2011)

Red said:


> Can she do that on the fly? steal their powers with no prep whatsoever? And if she can there's no reason to think a copy would beat an original (don't bring Shiro into this )
> 
> That's what it is. Its 1 on 1. She regens after each fight even if she  loses and continues to the next one. Plus I can't spite my favorite  character.



if she doesn't jack any power she is in trouble especially people like Flandre and Yukari are going to pose as powerful threats (and have ideal powers to steal combine Flandre's power with yukari's lol rapeinate )


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 2, 2011)

Red said:


> Can she do that on the fly? steal their powers with no prep whatsoever? And if she can there's no reason to think a copy would beat an original (don't bring Shiro into this )
> 
> That's what it is. Its 1 on 1. She regens after each fight even if she  loses and continues to the next one. Plus I can't spite my favorite  character.



Ok, Gauntlet is more reasonable.
Yes she did. Yuki stole Haruhi's powers due to her "malfunction". She just felt like stealing it and the next second she did. The whole point of the Disappearance arc was to get back in time and convince Nagato to not steal Haruhi's powers. 

Perhaps we can argue that Haruhi's powers are more like an extension of Yuki's and that's why she got them so easily. But we're dealing with reality warp there...
If left unrestrained such abilities always lead to NLF speculations.


----------



## Berkt (Jan 2, 2011)

Can Yuki copy the physical condition and knowledge of her opponent as well?  Because if not, Yomu and Hong Meiling have a decent chance of winning as their powers are tied closely to their bodies.  And for the record, though there is no solid proof, it's implied that Hong Meiling is capable of beating Sakuya in a stand up fight.


----------



## fullrefund (Jan 2, 2011)

Considering that Yukari didn't think that herself and yuyuko could beat Shekieiki and Komachi (they ran away form them from what i heard) i would say that stealing Yukari power isn't insta-win.

I don't understand why Shikieiki wasn't bolded. She is hinted as superior to Komachi(who the op bolded) in power as she is the goddess judging the dead after all.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Jan 2, 2011)

fullrefund said:


> Considering that Yukari didn't think that herself and yuyuko could beat Shekieiki and Komachi (they ran away form them from what i heard) i would say that stealing Yukari power isn't insta-win.
> 
> I don't understand why Shikieiki wasn't bolded. She is hinted as superior to Komachi(who the op bolded) in power as she is the goddess judging the dead after all.



doesn't Shikieiki's power allow her to make it so someone can't use a power also if she judges them and says they can't or something? (im remembering touhou battle royal)


----------



## fullrefund (Jan 2, 2011)

> doesn't Shikieiki's power allow her to make it so someone can't use a power also if she judges them and says they can't or something? (im remembering touhou battle royal)



From Labyrinth of Touhou ,if the name of the attack are any indication, a few of her attack looked like instant death type.
After that and the common bullet spam i am not sure what exactly her powers do but the ability of canceling power would make some sense for a judge as after all you don't send someone in prison with a rocket launcher.


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 3, 2011)

Yuki wins due to not sucking


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Jan 3, 2011)

Base means her standard power set without Haruhi's reality warping, right? Or are you removing everything that involves a verbal command?


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Jan 3, 2011)

fullrefund said:


> From Labyrinth of Touhou ,if the name of the attack are any indication, a few of her attack looked like instant death type.
> After that and the common bullet spam i am not sure what exactly her powers do but the ability of canceling power would make some sense for a judge as after all you don't send someone in prison with a rocket launcher.



so Shikieiki could beat Yuki also now by just canceling out her abilities


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Jan 3, 2011)

ShikiYakumo said:


> so Shikieiki could beat Yuki also now by just canceling out her abilities



Shikieiki's never shown the power to cancel out abilities. We have no idea what her own abilities are beyond judging others and creating doppelgangers with her mirror.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 3, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Shikieiki's never shown the power to cancel out abilities. We have no idea what her own abilities are beyond judging others and creating doppelgangers with her mirror.


Even if she could, Yuki is FTL by a pretty comfortable margin. She could just shank almost anyone and turn them into chairs before they could register a thought and put up a Spell Card.


----------



## Red (Jan 3, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Shikieiki's never shown the power to cancel out abilities. We have no idea what her own abilities are beyond judging others and creating doppelgangers with her mirror.


This. Yukari did mention that she didn't want to mess with her but I attribute that more to Shikieki being of higher station than her, not being more powerful.



skiboydoggy said:


> Even if she could, Yuki is FTL by a pretty  comfortable margin. She could just shank almost anyone and turn them  into chairs before they could register a thought and put up a Spell  Card.


Marisa, Remilia, The Hime twins are confirmed FTL. Aya and Reimu are FTL  by powerscaling and Kaguya's powerset allows her to be FTL at short  bursts.

Yukari is immune to reality warping (see IN when Kiene's history eating  didn't work on her). The rest I put in bold are people who could  arguably take her down with her powers.


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Jan 3, 2011)

Red said:


> Marisa, Remilia, The Hime twins are confirmed FTL.



Yorihime seemingly laser timed against the first Master Spark and used some kind of time manipulation or speed negation against the Double Spark. Marisa didn't do anything that would make her FTL in that fight. Relativistic at best considering the reflected Spark still grazed her. 

Remilia could be argued as capable of FTL movement based on kicking Yorihime in the face, but we don't see what happens prior to that so it could just as easily have been while Yorihime wasn't paying attention. It's potential, but not confirmed. Toyohime has no speed feats at all that I'm aware of so I'm not sure where you got her being confirmed FTL from. 



> Aya and Reimu are FTL  by powerscaling and Kaguya's powerset allows her to be FTL at short  bursts.



Aya is only FTL if you assume Remilia is FTL, but that isn't confirmed since we don't see how she hits Yorihime. Reimu is slower than Marisa and Marisa has not shown FTL capabilities, so at best Reimu is FTL in reaction speed only.



> Yukari is immune to reality warping (see IN when Kiene's history eating  didn't work on her).



That's ridiculous. The ability to see through changes to history doesn't give Yukari blanket immunity to reality warping.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Jan 3, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Yorihime seemingly laser timed against the first Master Spark and used some kind of time manipulation or speed negation against the Double Spark. Marisa didn't do anything that would make her FTL in that fight. Relativistic at best considering the reflected Spark still grazed her.



true



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Remilia could be argued as capable of FTL movement based on kicking Yorihime in the face, but we don't see what happens prior to that so it could just as easily have been while Yorihime wasn't paying attention. It's potential, but not confirmed. Toyohime has no speed feats at all that I'm aware of so I'm not sure where you got her being confirmed FTL from.


 
yeah all she did is threaten yukari with her fan that has the power to nuke an area. (she never showed any speed feats)

as for Remilia

im pretty sure it's while Jobber queen was distracted



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Aya is only FTL if you assume Remilia is FTL, but that isn't confirmed since we don't see how she hits Yorihime. Reimu is slower than Marisa and Marisa has not shown FTL capabilities, so at best Reimu is FTL in reaction speed only.
> 
> 
> That's ridiculous. The ability to see through changes to history doesn't give Yukari blanket immunity to reality warping.



true


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 4, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> That's ridiculous. The ability to see through changes to history doesn't give Yukari blanket immunity to reality warping.



That's Red for you


----------



## Weather (Jan 4, 2011)

> Marisa, Remilia, The Hime twins are confirmed FTL. Aya and Reimu are FTL by powerscaling and Kaguya's powerset allows her to be FTL at short bursts.



Marisa is Massively Hypersonic or Relativistic at best. and POSSIBLY Lightspeed when accelerating herself with the Master Spark but not more.

Remilia is Hypersonic-Massively Hypersonic. And the Speed of her Gungnir Spellcard is Described to be "Like a Laser". So POSSIBLY Realitivistic-lightspeed for Gungnir.

Yorihime has Realitivistic-Lightspeed-FTL reactions. and Toyohime same bt powerscaling.



> Yukari is immune to reality warping (see IN when Kiene's history eating didn't work on her). The rest I put in bold are people who could arguably take her down with her powers.



Red... this is bullshit.


----------



## Red (Jan 4, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Yorihime seemingly laser timed against the first Master Spark and used some kind of time manipulation or speed negation against the Double Spark. Marisa didn't do anything that would make her FTL in that fight. Relativistic at best considering the reflected Spark still grazed her.


 There was no time manipulation or speed negation hinted at all. I'm really surprise where you even got that idea because I'm reading and reading the scene and nothing like that is mentioned or hinted in any way shape or form.

this
this
this
this

I honestly can't see where time manipulation or speed negation is mentioned. If you believe that then you're going to have to explain why.



> Remilia could be argued as capable of FTL movement based on kicking Yorihime in the face, but we don't see what happens prior to that so it could just as easily have been while Yorihime wasn't paying attention. It's potential, but not confirmed. Toyohime has no speed feats at all that I'm aware of so I'm not sure where you got her being confirmed FTL from.


She circumnavigated the moon before knocking remilia down. That's huge, you not only circle the moon, you do so while blitzing a laser timer.

Implying that Yorihime wasn't paying attention is an ad-hoc. Sure its a possibility, but keep Occam's Razor in mind as well Yorihime's desposition. When she beat Sakuya she was attentive enough to note her singed smock and formulate a plan on the go.

this
this
this

Her not paying attention after this little show of her taking in all details and even calculating her chances of winning is not plausible.


> Aya is only FTL if you assume Remilia is FTL, but that isn't confirmed since we don't see how she hits Yorihime. Reimu is slower than Marisa and Marisa has not shown FTL capabilities, so at best Reimu is FTL in reaction speed only.


I'm power scaling off of Marisa herself, not Remilia. Marisa fired her lazer (1), changed her location fired a simultaneous one while the first was still in mid flight (2) to fire off a double spark. What Kazami has to clone herself to do, Marisa does it with sheer speed. That's confirmed FTL movement.

Since Marisa is FTL, then it should be obvious the fastest character (aya) should be too by a significant margin.

Marisa is FTL in both movement and reaction but she can't see Youmu in mid slash. Making Youmu faster than the perception of a FTL character.

Reimu doesn't have the movement speed to match Marisa but she can and does react to her, beating her in danmaku matches occasionally.





> That's ridiculous. *The ability to see through changes to history* doesn't give Yukari blanket immunity to reality warping.


In IN Keine expressively states that she'll erase Yukari's and Reimu's history, she attempts and she fails to undo their histories. That's a straight forward feat.

The speed list goes like this Aya is the fastest Tengu and character. 

Marisa has enough speed to maneuver and fire a laser in while the first is in mid flight to give an illusion of a double spark.

Aya, Youmu, Remilia, (arguably) Hatate, and Kaguya are faster than her.



			
				Weather said:
			
		

> Red... this is bullshit.


I'm not seeing how.

Character A: I'm going to shoot you with a fireball and burn you to ashes!

Character B: Try it

Character A: Bwoosh fireball!

Character B: Still standing.

THEREFORE CHARACTER A IS IMMUNE TO FIREBALLS.

Apply that style of deduction to this dialog:



> *Keine *
> 今夜は、お前達の歴史で満漢全席だ！
> I will feast upon your history tonight!
> 
> ...


Logical deductive conclusion after a character tanks an attack is that the character has defenses against it. I'm not speaking Greek here or explaining advanced mathematics, it really is that straight forward of a reason.


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Jan 4, 2011)

Red said:


> There was no time manipulation or speed negation hinted at all. I'm really surprise where you even got that idea because I'm reading and reading the scene and nothing like that is mentioned or hinted in any way shape or form.
> 
> 2
> 2
> ...



It's not mentioned, it's shown. 

2
2
2
2

Take a look at the first Spark, and note the way it's already a foot or two away from Yorihime in the first scan. Over the course of those four pages it's position doesn't change at all. Despite the fact that it's already in Yorihime's face before the second Spark is even fired, they both reach her at the same time and the second Spark even overtakes the first one slightly. Unless each Spark was moving at a vastly different speed this is impossible, so the logical conclusion is that Yorihime was using the same trick that she used to freeze Stardust Reverie in place at the beginning of the match.



> She circumnavigated the moon before knocking remilia down. That's huge, you not only circle the moon, you do so while blitzing a laser timer.
> 
> Implying that Yorihime wasn't paying attention is an ad-hoc. Sure its a possibility, but keep Occam's Razor in mind as well Yorihime's desposition. When she beat Sakuya she was attentive enough to note her singed smock and formulate a plan on the go.
> 
> ...



None of this changes the fact that we don't see what happens as Remilia blitzes her, which leaves us with nothing but speculation. You can say it's likely that Remilia moved FTL here, but you can't say it's confirmed.



> I'm power scaling off of Marisa herself, not Remilia. Marisa fired her lazer (1), changed her location fired a simultaneous one while the first was still in mid flight (2) to fire off a double spark. What Kazami has to clone herself to do, Marisa does it with sheer speed. That's confirmed FTL movement.
> 
> Since Marisa is FTL, then it should be obvious the fastest character (aya) should be too by a significant margin.
> 
> ...



2

Yet when her Master Spark is reflected back at her she barely avoids it. I've already explained why the first beam of the two can't be used to speed scale anything. It was slowed to a crawl while Marisa was firing the second one, and we can't be sure it wasn't already moving in slow motion (or not at all) when she flew up to fire the other one.

And Youmu is faster than Aya during her speed bursts. Kaguya would be as well when using her ability.



> In IN Keine expressively states that she'll erase Yukari's and Reimu's history, she attempts and she fails to undo their histories. That's a straight forward feat.



Again, this is absolutely ridiculous. Erasing someone from history would clearly be against the spellcard rules. You're grasping at straws here and assuming that Keine uses the kind of broken attacks nobody else in the series is allowed to use. This would also require us to assume that everyone else who fights Keine is immune to history alteration, and we know this isn't true because Yukari is the only one of the eight who can still see the village after Keine consumes it's history.


----------



## Weather (Jan 4, 2011)

> Logical deductive conclusion after a character tanks an attack is that the character has defenses against it. I'm not speaking Greek here or explaining advanced mathematics, it really is that straight forward of a reason.



Hell no.
That's bullshit, the way you put it Yuyuko would Oneshot everybody in IN (Except for Kaguya and Mokou of course) or SRW but we know she can't due to Spellcards rules.
Keine can't use her History Manipulation on people in a Spellcard duel. 

Now I see why Touhou is so Hated here.


----------



## Red (Jan 5, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> It's not mentioned, it's shown.
> 
> 2
> 2
> ...


Hold up, what "freeze" trick did she use on star dust  reverie. She didn't freeze anything, she dodged it easily because she  predicted the path and then slashed up the remaining stars. Seriously,  from my perspective your pulling up a non-existent power as a way to  ignore the simplest possible situation.

Here's the flaw in how you read your panels: You treat panels like a  time reference and go on to interpret the spatial relationships of the  objects as likewise. Here's what happens:

Marisa fires the first shot:


Accelerates a good deal ahead the first shot


Then fires the second shot:


Which reaches Hime at the same time. The panel order and order events fit my initial explanation and support my conclusion. Marisa had to move ahead of the first laser by quite a bit to fire the second laser and have them meet at the same time. 



> None of this changes the fact that we don't see what happens as Remilia  blitzes her, which leaves us with nothing but speculation. You can say  it's likely that Remilia moved FTL here, but you can't say it's  confirmed.


That's not a speculation, that's a fact. The fact is  that Yorihime was blitzed, the fact is Remilia circumnavigated the moon  in that hit as well. The only speculation here is yours, you bring up  Hime being distracted when that was never shown or stated, you bring up  time manipulation or speed manipulation powers when that was never  hinted. My interpretation is to take the outcome at face value:  Character A did X so it means Y. Your counter argument is to bring up  the things that COULD have happened.





> 2
> 
> Yet when her Master Spark is reflected back at her she barely avoids  it.


 It looks to me your arguing against someone being FTL by  POSTING THE PERSON DODGING A LIGHT SPEED ATTACK. She barely avoids it  because she was caught by surprise by the counter attack, nothing more.



> I've already explained why the first beam of the two can't be  used to speed scale anything. It was slowed to a crawl while Marisa was  firing the second one, and we can't be sure it wasn't already moving in  slow motion (or not at all) when she flew up to fire the other  one.


I'm not buying that, there's no time or speed manipulation abilities  that hime has. The god she's using the power of only reflects attacks  nothing more. You're bringing up an Ad-hoc fallacy to explain away  straight froward feats. Like I said, from my perspective you're bringing  up something completely out of nowhere. Seriously, if there was one  spell card, one god, one power whatsoever that hinted at speed and time  control from Hime, I'd seriously consider this and alter my entire  argument to fit that, but there isn't and I'm not going to concede  without a better explanation that I have.




> And Youmu is faster than Aya during her speed bursts.


That was never stated.


> Kaguya would be as well when using her ability.


Okay.




> Again, this is absolutely ridiculous. Erasing someone from history would  clearly be against the spellcard rules. You're grasping at straws here  and assuming that Keine uses the kind of broken attacks nobody else in  the series is allowed to use.


 Spell cards see my rebuttal at  weather. It looks like the spell card rules have been taken from "social  contract that youkai and Humans have" to some "unbreakable law". 



> This would also require us to assume that everyone else who  fights Keine  is immune to history alteration, and we know this isn't true because  Yukari is the only one of the eight who can still see the village after  Keine consumes it's history.


First of all, it was only Reimu and  Yukari that Kiene explicitly states that she's going to do undo their  histories. For Malice team she just says "I won't let you hurt the  villagers", for SDM team her history eating can be nullified by  Remilia's fate manipulation and for Team Hungry Ghost she never  specifically says she's eat their history.

Fact of the matter is, of the 8. Reimu is immune to her ability to float  over reality and interference (Fantasy heaven spell card), Remilia  destiny manipulation can stand up to history manipulation and Keine  didn't attack any of the histories of the others. It still fits.



Weather said:


> Hell no.
> That's bullshit, the way you put it Yuyuko would Oneshot everybody in IN (Except for Kaguya and Mokou of course) or SRW but we know she can't due to Spellcards rules.
> Keine can't use her History Manipulation on people in a Spellcard duel.


First of all, you didn't address the logic structure of my argument (i.e point out a flaw or fallacy in the system I said I was using) instead you argue against the implications of the already deduced outcome. That itself is a fallacy.

That's funny because Yuyuko could one shot everybody in IN except Kaguya and Mokou. In fact the first time she meets Mokou, she tries to kill him and fails.

And spell card rules says nothing about not using your powers. Here's a quick break down:



> ・決闘の美しさに名前と意味を持たせる。
> - Each spell shall be given a beautiful and meaningful name.
> ・開始前に命名決闘の回数を提示する。
> - The number of named spells to be used shall be announced beforehand.
> ...


It doesn't say you can't use your powers, it says you can't go all out. And each character decides what "all out is" for her own. For example, Mokou's spell card is safe, it won't hurt if it hits:

_"The flames, rather than being hot, actually feel like gentle bullets of light. Of course, you still lose if you get hit."_

Kaguya doesn't even use her powers at all:
_
"In the end, Kaguya's spell cards all make use of special items, so I  realize that they can't be referenced. She doesn't really use her own  ability in spell card battles. Maybe the lunar urbanites aren't adapted  to spell cards."_

And Utsusho just doesn't give a darn:

_"Superhot fireballs. Though it's fine to graze the danmaku a little,  touching the fireball just a little bit makes me fear for my life.  Hence, large evasions are a must."_

Its entierly up to the discretion of the particpents involved to make their danmaku based on their powers and harmless, or just random bullshit and hurt.

The fact of the matter is the only things the spell cards specifically states are: 1) Make sure your spells have descriptive names, 2) Make sure you agree to how many spells you use 3) Make sure you don't go over the agreed number of spells 4) physical attacks cannot be spammed. 5) You don't kill the loser.

Spell card rules basically used to keep damage to a minimum and ensure bystanders aren't hurt and youkai and humans maintain honorable relations (and stops wanton murder). It does NOT guarantee the safety of the participants or the harmlessness of the attack and in the case with Kiene, she did specifically say I'm going to use my powers to make sure this night did not happen.



> Now I see why Touhou is so Hated here.


 Why? Fans don't use touhou characters to make spite threads and troll other fandoms neither do they condescend other works for no reason. If somebody is angry about differing opinions, then its less of the fan's fault and more of the person's fault. It should be obvious going by the sheer amount of fan works for Touhou that fans have different views on the work, what I'm doing here is backing up my views and having a fun discussion. Not trolling to make yuki fans feel bad (I'm a yuki fan).


----------



## Weather (Jan 5, 2011)

> That was never stated.



Actually...



> 瞬間的にですが……私も目が追えない程の速度
> で移動していた気がします。
> 移動の瞬間を捉えたかったけど無理でした。
> All in one moment... I think she moved
> ...



From Shoot the Bullet.

And a bit off topic but I always wondered... Why the hell Chen has never recieved the Name Yakumo as Ran did?


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Jan 5, 2011)

Red said:


> Hold up, what "freeze" trick did she use on star dust  reverie. She didn't freeze anything, she dodged it easily because she  predicted the path and then slashed up the remaining stars.



This would be a valid point if not for the fact that Marisa stated the stars had stopped moving from her perspective before she used Event Horizon, which cannot be explained by Yorihime dodging them. 



> Marisa fires the first shot:
> 
> 
> Accelerates a good deal ahead the first shot
> ...



How are you completely ignoring the pages you yourself are posting? In that second panel you can see clear as day that Marisa flew upwards, not forwards, and that the first Spark was right in front of Yorihime before the second one had even been fired. You can blatantly see that the second spark is trailing behind the first in that third page, yet their positions are reversed when they are dealt with. The order of events is blatantly obvious to everyone with a functioning pair of eyes:

1. Marisa fires Spark A.
2. Marisa flies into the air for her second shot while Spark A comes within a few feet of Yorihime.
3. Marisa fires Spark B, which catches up to Spark A and trails only a few feet behind. Spark A does not appear to have moved during this time.
4. Yorihime summons her goddess and unveils the mirror. Spark A still has not hit her.
5. Spark B reaches it's destination, and is now a few feet ahead of Spark A due to it's target being behind Yorihime. Spark A is still in the same position it has been in since before Spark B was fired.
6. Spark A and Spark B are countered simultaneously. Despite being fired later, Spark B has clearly outrun Spark A in order to strike the mirror at the same time Spark A is cut in half.

The only way this can be justified is with divine meddling on Yorihime's part. It's either that or the first Spark was *much* slower than the second, which would call any speed scaling using Sparks into question because they would no longer be limited to one speed, namely the speed of light.



> That's not a speculation, that's a fact. The fact is that Yorihime was blitzed, the fact is Remilia circumnavigated the moon in that hit as well.



Two more facts to add to the pile are that Remilia never laid a finger on Yorihime again and was unable to evade Amaterasu's blast of sunlight. It seems strange, too, that Remilia would be capable of easily outrunning her fastest projectile, if what Weather says is true.



> It looks to me your arguing against someone being FTL by POSTING THE PERSON DODGING A LIGHT SPEED ATTACK. She barely avoids it  because she was caught by surprise by the counter attack, nothing more.



You mean it hasn't occurred to you that moving two feet in the time it takes a beam of light to move twenty doesn't make someone FTL?

repeats the feat
repeats the feat
repeats the feat

Getting kicked around by an attack based on starlight doesn't seem to support the idea that Marisa is FTL either, nor does her statement that nothing is faster than light. Seems like a strange thing to say if Marisa herself is faster than it.



> Spell cards see my rebuttal at  weather. It looks like the spell card rules have been taken from "social  contract that youkai and Humans have" to some "unbreakable law".



*That use of one's full abilities is to be denied.*

You missed this in your rebuttal.



> First of all, it was only Reimu and Yukari that Kiene explicitly states that she's going to do undo their histories.



"Dammit, all of your history will be mine! Including your deaths, too!"

According to your logic Youmu and Yuyuko are now immune to reality warping.



> for SDM team her history eating can be nullified by Remilia's fate manipulation



Based on what? Remilia doesn't have total control of her own fate or she wouldn't have lost to Reimu, Suika, or Yorihime. What suggests she could stop someone from retroactively removing her from existence?


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 5, 2011)

Keine doesn't even erase history, she merely "conceals" it. She's not fucking Darkseid.


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Jan 5, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Keine doesn't even erase history, she merely "conceals" it. She's not fucking Darkseid.



Right, that too. She doesn't actually erase history in her human form, she just makes it look like she did. If anything it's more like an illusion, so why Red is comparing it to reality warping is anyone's guess.


----------



## Red (Jan 7, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> This would be a valid point if not for  the fact that Marisa stated the stars had stopped moving from her  perspective before she used Event Horizon, which cannot be explained by  Yorihime dodging them.


Burden of proof is on you to prove that  she used that same attack on Master Spark. For Star Dust Reverie it was  explicitly stated that that’s what happened, afterwards nobody commented  on it being used on Final Spark or Double Spark. You can’t indicate  from the panels whether or not any temporal slowdowns are because the  panels aren’t clearly indicating it. Look at the deconstruction of the  seen below. You’re arguing that the discrepancy of how the projectiles  reach their destination is indicator of a speed/temporal anomaly but  there is no discrepancy, just your misreading of perspective and order  of actions.

  It also doesn’t make sense. Hime is able to stop master spark, an  attack moving at the speed of light but she’s unable to stop Remi’s  charge at her. Wouldn’t that make Remilia’s flight speed faster than the  speed of the attack Hime couldn’t slow down? I.e That makes Remilia’s  charge faster than light.

Then look at this scene:

 Link removed
 Link removed
 Link removed
 Link removed

She was expecting Hime to slash it, she called a god to rebound   instead, it caught Marisa by surprise but she's able to dodge it at the   last sec. You can assert Hime MAY Have slowed the laser down when it  was  heading towards her, but you can't say the same for when it was  heading  towards Marisa. And the fact that it reached earth in seconds,  typical  of a laser proves that it was moving the standard speed. You're  counter explanation using Hime's unknown power is flat.




> How are you completely ignoring the pages you yourself are posting? In  that second panel you can see clear as day that Marisa flew upwards,  not forwards,


  Perspective is skewered. Look at this: The spark  is curved and the ground/horizon line curved, that shows the scene is  skewered in a . She’s actually flying forward and upwards if you take perspective into account





> and that the first Spark was right in front of Yorihime before the second one had even been fired. *You  can blatantly see that the second spark is trailing behind the first in  that third page, yet their positions are reversed when they are dealt  with*. The order of events is blatantly obvious to everyone with a functioning pair of eyes:


  You’re looking at it all wrong. They were dealt with at the exact same time:
  They reach the target at the roughly same time:

  Hime slashes one while the god deflects the last one at the same time:

  There’s nothing with the order of events or my interpretation of them.


> Two more facts to add to the pile are that Remilia never laid a  finger on Yorihime again.


 That's because HIme used the power of  a God who's moveset Remilia could not keep up with it:

  Link removed
  Link removed
  Link removed



> and was unable to evade Amaterasu's blast of sunlight.


Because she was in MID CHARGE.
  Link removed
  Link removed
  Link removed

  I bet you can dodge a throne stone if I threw it at you while you were  standing. But what if you were charging at me while I threw the stone  at you? Same thing here.




> You mean it hasn't occurred to you that moving two feet in the  time it takes a beam of light to move twenty doesn't make someone  FTL?


It gives you FTL reaction time. And you've been in the OBD  long enough that the term "Faster than X reaction time" is a misnomer  which doesn't mean the person can outrun X in a straight up race. It  just means "I can dodge a projectile going at X speeds therefore there  is a good chance I can react to people who move at them". 



> Link removed
> Link removed
> Link removed
> 
> Getting kicked around by an attack based on starlight doesn't seem to  support the idea that Marisa is FTL either


 I can dodge a stone  thrown at me, doesn't mean I can dodge all stones, from any angle in all  situations as any time. Same thing happened here. She was too freaking  inches away from the source of light and she was able to move away in  time. So yeah, just because I can dodge a bullet at me from a good  distance away that doesn't guarantee a shot from close enough when I'm  not expecting it won't tag me.

According to your logic, Agent Smith bullet timing is null and void because he didn't dodge this when  Trinity dared him to, or Neo isn't a real bullet timer since a couple  bullets still tagged him. Bullet Timing/Laser Timing doesn't give you  immunity to all light and bullets and that makes your counter argument.




> nor does her statement that nothing is faster than light. Seems  like a strange thing to say if Marisa herself is faster than it.
> 
> 
> > Character statements are correct unless proven wrong on panel  after the statement. Marisa argues nothing is faster than light, we  believe her, then the next scene is her out gunning her own laser and  dodging her reflected laser so the next logically conclusion is that  Marisa is wrong, there is something faster than light, Marisa is. Its  not hard.
> ...


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 7, 2011)

So we're of agreement that Yuki solos Touhou after stealing everyone's powers like some sort of mad Peter Petrelli then? Alright.


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Jan 7, 2011)

Red said:


> Burden of proof is on you to prove that she used that same attack on Master Spark.



dodge this 

Take a close look at the top right panel. The second Spark is farther from Yorihime than the first, as evident from their respective sizes in comparison to her.

dodge this 

Now take an equally close look at the top panel. The second Spark has clearly overtaken the first. How is this possible if both beams are moving at the same speed? It's obviously not, and nothing suggests that Sparks are not consistent when it comes to speed, so the obvious conclusion is that Yorihime used the same thing she used on Stardust Reverie to freeze the first Spark. We've seen her summon the flame of Atago with no chant or movement, so it's not like this would be something new.

If you disagree, I want your own explanation for the second Spark outspeeding the first, unless you're going to continue to deny what the scene shows us.



> It also doesnt make sense. Hime is able to stop master spark, an attack moving at the speed of light but shes unable to stop Remis charge at her. Wouldnt that make Remilias flight speed faster than the speed of the attack Hime couldnt slow down? I.e That makes Remilias  charge faster than light.



Here's something else that doesn't make sense. You're suggesting that Remilia legitimately blitzed Yorihime after orbiting the moon. That means she was blitzed *from the horizon*.

dodge this 
dodge this 
dodge this 

So Remilia can casually blitz Yorihime from kilometers away, but when she gets serious and rushes in for her strongest physical attack she's unable to close a much shorter distance before Yorihime can counter her? You can't attribute this to the dancing goddess either since it had already left Yorihime before she summoned Amaterasu.



> She was expecting Hime to slash it, she called a god to rebound   instead, it caught Marisa by surprise but she's able to dodge it at the last sec. *You can assert Hime MAY Have slowed the laser down when it was  heading towards her*, but you can't say the same for when it was heading  towards Marisa. And the fact that it reached earth in seconds, typical of a laser proves that it was moving the standard speed. You're counter explanation using Hime's unknown power is flat.



That's all I needed to hear. I never once suggested that the second Spark was hit by the same freezing effect the first one was, so the rest of this isn't relevant.



> Perspective is skewered. Look at this: The spark  is curved and the ground/horizon line curved, that shows the scene is  skewered in a . Shes actually flying forward and upwards if you take perspective into account



Which doesn't change much of anything. The only way the Sparks could be countered simultaneously without divine intervention is if Marisa fired the second one while flying just ahead of the first one. We know this didn't happen since it would have required her to be close enough to kiss Yorihime, and we can plainly see that she fires the second Spark from a distance.



> Youre looking at it all wrong. They were dealt with at the exact same time:
> They reach the target at the roughly same time:
> 
> Hime slashes one while the god deflects the last one at the same time:
> ...



I've already covered this. The fact that they were countered simultaneously doesn't change the fact that the second Spark's point of impact was a few feet beyond the first's. Again, without meddling from Yorihime, the only way the scene could play out like this is if Marisa was basically *in Yorihime's lap* when firing the second Spark.



> Because she was in MID CHARGE.



Oh please. Danmaku is all about weaving through storms of projectiles assaulting you from all sides, and you're really going to claim that Remilia of all people got hit because she had trouble changing direction in flight? Have you played the fighting games at all? This is grasping at straws to a hilarious degree, doubly so given the way you're supporting her alleged FTL capabilities.



> It gives you FTL reaction time. And you've been in the OBD  long enough that the term "Faster than X reaction time" is a misnomer which doesn't mean the person can outrun X in a straight up race. It just means "I can dodge a projectile going at X speeds therefore there is a good chance I can react to people who move at them".



This doesn't seem to take distance into account. You or I could dodge a race car with enough distance if it was moving in a straight line. That doesn't mean we could keep up with someone moving that fast at point blank range. Stating that Marisa is confirmed FTL is misleading since she hasn't shown the ability to fight at those speeds. Marisa narrowly dodging a reflected Spark from a distance doesn't require her to be moving FTL, only at relativistic levels of speed. 

Stating that Yorihime is confirmed FTL has much more weight behind it considering her laser timing feats involved lasers that were at point blank range when she countered them. Remilia's case would also be inarguable if you had proof of it being a legitimate blitz.



> Character statements are correct unless proven wrong on panel after the statement. Marisa argues nothing is faster than light, we believe her, then the next scene is her out gunning her own laser and dodging her reflected laser so the next logically conclusion is that Marisa is wrong, there is something faster than light, Marisa is. Its not hard.



Except there is no proof of Marisa moving FTL in that fight. On top of that, you're suggesting that Marisa either doesn't know how fast her own attack is compared to herself or is lying for no reason and chooses to brag about her ultimate attack by saying it's slower than she is.



> "It doesn't say you can't use your powers, it says you can't go all  out. And each character decides what "all out is" for her own."



Okay, so which of Keine's spellcards or patterns involves her trying to eat the opponent's history? 



> That's entirely plausible.



I'd love to know how it would be considered plausible. Yukari has a legitimate reason due to her ability, and the idea is actually supported since Keine's history consumption doesn't affect her perception of the village. It's still invisible to everyone else, and nothing about Yuyuko or Youmu's powers indicates that they would be immune to changes in history.



> Wrong interpretation. She does have actively control over it in the fact that its always ON. And it doesn't guarantee victory the way you seem  to think it does.



Which means her control of it isn't on a conscious level or she lacks enough influence over her fate to change it as she likes. That loses out to EX-Keine's complete control over every aspect of Gensokyo's history, which is presumably when she could truly erase history instead of simply concealing it.



> Her ability is Keine's ability in reverse. Kiene retroactively changes the cause (history) to change the effect (present, Future) , Remilia's powers are over destiny i.e cause and effect. The mechanics behind there powers make them perfect for countering each other.



That really doesn't answer my question. What stops Remilia's fate from being locked into 'gets erased from history'? Pointing out opposing mechanics doesn't mean much of anything unless Remilia has actually shown a way to combat Keine's powers. As it stands, she hasn't.



> I expect Endless Mike to not know what the fuck he's talking about, but you should know better:


 
And you should know that Word of God supersedes Akyu's take on things. Keine's IN profile makes consume synonymous with conceal, states that Keine can only conceal histories in her human form, and states that she devoured the village's history to hide it from sight. The village clearly wasn't erased from existence, and Keine herself says she only made it _look_ like humans had never settled there. Actually removing something from history is beyond her human form.


----------



## Red (Jan 8, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Link removed
> 
> Take a close look at the top right panel. The second Spark is farther  from Yorihime than the first, as evident from their respective sizes in  comparison to her.
> 
> ...


Different perspectives between pages you're comparing. The first panel here:
Link removed

is being foreshortened so the two lasers look curved and shortened. The panel here:
Link removed 

Is the scene with no foreshortening. You're not taking the different perspective that's being used in each panel and its giving you the mistaken idea that the sparks aren't equal when they are.



> Here's something else that doesn't make sense. You're suggesting that  Remilia legitimately blitzed Yorihime after orbiting the moon. That  means she was blitzed *from the horizon*.
> 
> Link removed
> Link removed
> ...


Actually its easier to blitz from the horizon than it is from a place where you can see. Blitzing somebody from farther away means 1) You have more room to accelerate 2) You have more room to maneuver and alter your trajectory. The shorter distance means Remilia couldn't reach her top speed and couldn't change trajectory quick enough and makes it harder to attack. The fact of the matter is the charge Yorihime was able to react was a much slower charge since Remilia had less time accelerate. You can't use that as a counter argument.



> That's all I needed to hear. I never once suggested that the second  Spark was hit by the same freezing effect the first one was, so the rest  of this isn't relevant.


That wasn't a concession, that was me saying the idea was plausible but you haven't proven it. The only thing you've managed to do is show that you didn't consider perspectives when it comes to reading the panels. 

And if you do fail to invalidate Marisa's dodge of the laser rebound feat then you're conceding that Marisa can dodge light speed projectiles, basically the whole purpose of this debate.


> Which doesn't change much of anything. The only way the Sparks could be  countered simultaneously without divine intervention is if Marisa fired  the second one while flying just ahead of the first one. We know this  didn't happen since it would have required her to be close enough to  kiss Yorihime, and we can plainly see that she fires the second Spark  from a distance.


Wrong on all accounts. The perspective change shows that she moved forward and upwards to compensate for the time lag of firing the second laser a split second later and in doing so making her react as fast or near the speed of the first laser fired. And no, her moving forward won't have her "practically kissing Hime" because she moved upwards as well as forwards, putting her ABOVE Hime while the distance is closed.

And that leads to a second point: Dual Spark is done when two sparks are fired off and hit their targets simultaneously. The first person to do it was Kazami instead of speed she makes an actual copy of herself. Marisa doesn't do it with a clone, she does it with pure speed. The underlying implication is that she has the ability to fire off two lasers simultaneously at the same time from two different angles, the mechanics of the attack, regardless of this scene, gives her light speed or near light speed reaction and movement time.



> Oh please. Danmaku is all about weaving through storms of projectiles  assaulting you from all sides, and you're really going to claim that  Remilia of all people got hit because she had trouble changing direction  in flight? *Have you played the fighting games at all?* This is grasping  at straws to a hilarious degree, doubly so given the way you're  supporting her alleged FTL capabilities.


At this point I'm not even sure you're serious or not . First of all Remilia's air dash is subject to game mechanics, you're seriously not going to use game mechanics to disprove on panel showings. Anything you infer from those mechanics are null and void. Second of all even in the fighting game Remilia can't change direction in mid-dash, she can cancel into another attack but she can't change direction without stopping her initial dash first. And in game, you don't fly stupidly into danmaku like Remilia did, anybody who's played the game will tell you that you hold shift for focused movement and graze for more points. 

Game mechanics aside, this is common sense. To dodge a bullet shot at you at 340m/s while you're stationary from a meter away gives you 3 thousandths of a second to dodge. But that time is halved to a thousandth of second if you're heading towards it at the same speed. Same thing here. Heading towards a projectile decreases the amount of time you have to dodge. Saying that Remilia couldn't dogde a light speed attack while she was in mid charge is a non-sequitar that doesn't add up.


> *This doesn't seem to take distance into account. You or I could dodge a  race car with enough distance if it was moving in a straight line. That  doesn't mean we could keep up with someone moving that fast at point  blank range. Stating that Marisa is confirmed FTL is misleading since  she hasn't shown the ability to fight at those speeds. Marisa narrowly  dodging a reflected Spark from a distance doesn't require her to be  moving FTL, only at relativistic levels of speed.*


Didn't I just say that in the very quote you're quoting? 



> Except there is no proof of Marisa moving FTL in that fight. On top of  that, you're suggesting that Marisa either doesn't know how fast her own  attack is compared to herself or is lying for no reason and chooses to  brag about her ultimate attack by saying it's slower than she is.


There is proof, we have an on-panel showing Marisa outmaneuvering her initial spark. The argument here is whether or not Yorihime's temporal powers slowed down the laser. And yes, I'm implying Marisa surprised even herself. Characters are falliable, and in this case Marisa outperformed her initial expectations. Nothing more.


> Okay, so which of Keine's spellcards or patterns involves her trying to eat the opponent's history?


Fallacy: . I never said any of Keine's spell cards were used in eating the character's history. I said Kiene declared she'd eat they're history, she failed and was defeated and what I draw from that is that means the people the attack failed to work on are immune to subsequent attacks of that nature. Nothing about her powers being tied to her spell card was mentioned.



> I'd love to know how it would be considered plausible. Yukari has a  legitimate reason due to her ability, and the idea is actually supported  since Keine's history consumption doesn't affect her perception of the  village. It's still invisible to everyone else, and nothing about Yuyuko  or Youmu's powers indicates that they would be immune to changes in  history.


Yuyuko is the mistress of the netherworld with her title given to her by the Yamas of Hell. Undoing her death and the events leading to her being given that title will essentially being going against the Kings of Hell. Keine doesn't have that authority in Gensokyo.



> Which means her control of it isn't on a conscious level or she lacks  enough influence over her fate to change it as she likes. That loses out  to EX-Keine's complete control over every aspect of Gensokyo's history,  which is presumably when she could truly erase history instead of  simply concealing it.


Conscious control is irrelevant. What is relevant is the STRENGTH and LEVEL of control. The fact that Kiene couldn't change Remilia's past or future mean's Remilia's control over her own casuality overrides Keine's control over events. Simple deduction, the mechanics of Remilia's powerset and end result of their meeting supports my conjecture.


----------



## Red (Jan 8, 2011)

> That really doesn't answer my question. What stops Remilia's fate  from  being locked into 'gets erased from history'? Pointing out  opposing  mechanics doesn't mean much of anything unless Remilia has  actually  shown a way to combat Keine's powers. As it stands, she  hasn't.


That answers your entire question. I'm not sure how to  explain it any simpler than I already have. Kiene's reality warping is  based on altering cause to change an event. If Keine wants to erase you  from reality, she doesn't just make it so, she changes the circumstances  behind your birth, for example make it so you fell and hit your head  when you were nine. That retroactively removes you from the present. But  if you had fate manipulation you could negate it by safeguarding you  fate with your powers. The fact that Remilia isn't conscious of this  also means its an automatic counter that doesn't need the owner to  initiate it.



> And you should know that Word of God supersedes Akyu's take on  things. Keine's IN profile makes consume synonymous with conceal, states  that  Keine can only conceal histories in her human form, and states  that she  devoured the village's history to hide it from sight.


  Conceal, Consume and Erase are used interchangeably here. The inclusion  of the other doesn't imply the exclusion of one. You picking one usage  over the others while all three are used equally is an equivocation  fallacy.



> The village  clearly wasn't erased from existence, and Keine herself says she only  made it _look_  like humans had never settled there. Actually removing something from  history is beyond her human form.


Strawman, I never said that the  Village was erased from history. I never even used that as basis for  anything being immune to being removed from history.


----------



## Red (Jan 8, 2011)

skiboydoggy said:


> So we're of agreement that Yuki solos Touhou after stealing everyone's powers like some sort of mad Peter Petrelli then? Alright.


Its a one on one fight with all the things reset after each fight. Its not like she'll combine all the powers or anything. And then if she does there's no guarantee that she'd win with that as well. You know the same problem everyone has with Ditto? That's the problem Yuki will have, except she'll be fighting with people who have more experience with their power set then she does. 

I can see her taking on a lot of the characters like that, in addition with her speed and such but I don't think she'd solo. The fake cannot beat the original, Shirou is a liar and a fraud


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 9, 2011)

Here I come, Queen of Lolis, do you have enough danmaku?


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Jan 9, 2011)

skiboydoggy said:


> Here I come, Queen of Lolis, do you have enough danmaku?


----------



## The Antagonist (Jan 9, 2011)

Nagato's speed is almost at the level of absolute relativity. Surely you are not making a spite thread here, kind sir? There are also six nagatos who all possess a hive mind like the borg and know s ranked jutsu coupled with the rinnegan, he's nigh omnipotent almost like the spawn. You're asking that this person challenge a god? It's absurd! Tohou is bent over a barrel with his tender ass just waiting to be pulverized by Nagato'd thrusting manhood! /thread/


----------



## The Antagonist (Jan 9, 2011)

wut? you mean nagato isn' a naruto character?


----------



## Weather (Jan 9, 2011)

The Antagonist said:


> Nagato's speed is almost at the level of absolute relativity. Surely you are not making a spite thread here, kind sir? There are also six nagatos who all possess a hive mind like the borg and know s ranked jutsu coupled with the rinnegan, he's nigh omnipotent almost like the spawn. You're asking that this person challenge a god? It's absurd! Tohou is bent over a barrel with his tender ass just waiting to be pulverized by Nagato'd thrusting manhood! /thread/



I... don't know how to react to this...


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Jan 9, 2011)

The Antagonist said:


> Nagato's speed is almost at the level of absolute relativity. Surely you are not making a spite thread here, kind sir? There are also six nagatos who all possess a hive mind like the borg and know s ranked jutsu coupled with the rinnegan, he's nigh omnipotent almost like the spawn. You're asking that this person challenge a god? It's absurd! Tohou is bent over a barrel with his tender ass just waiting to be pulverized by Nagato'd thrusting manhood! /thread/


..........dumb ass (also Touhou would kill Pein)


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 9, 2011)

Yuki vs Pain?


----------



## Es (Jan 9, 2011)

skiboydoggy said:


> Yuki vs Pain?



Is antagonist a T-pein dupe?


----------



## Xelloss (Jan 9, 2011)

Bait thread are forbidden but I may turn a blind eye to that 1.


----------

