# BSM Naruto vs EMS Madara



## ARGUS (Feb 3, 2014)

*BSM Naruto vs EMS Madara*

*Location: Madara vs 5 kages 
Starting Distance: 50m  
Intel: Manga 
Intent: To Kill 
Mindset: IC 
Restrictions: Kyuubi for madara 

I personally believe Naruto has surpassed EMS madara by now, but ive seen many many people claim that Madara is still superior,, so thats why i want to know what u guys think... 
Who wins this match?*


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## Trojan (Feb 3, 2014)

Naruto is stronger obviously. 

is he allowed to use Pa & Ma here?


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 3, 2014)

A roar at start battle (50m) would knock his PS off balance (assuming it's constructed in time), then a Superbijuudama follows which obliterates him.

I'm not sure EMS Madara could react to BSM Naruto at this distance, he could likely blitz and smash him before PS is even constructed. 50m is literally less than a step for BSM Naruto. His tails are longer than that distance, theoretically he could tail smash him at start battle, aside from his obvious chakra arm affinity.


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## Bonly (Feb 3, 2014)

This match comes down to PS vs BSM only. 

For those who thought BM Naruto didn't have the firepower to get through PS, they now have to factor in the boost in power Naruto's attacks would get via SM thus they will either think BSM Naruto can get through PS or they will still think PS is too good of a defense but realize that it'll be a good/close match. Those who thought BM Naruto had the firepower to get through PS will now think it becomes an easier win for Naruto due to the power boost. Either way people will think this is close in favor of Madara or Naruto should win more times then not and I bet most people would go with the latter.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 3, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> A roar at start battle (50m) would knock his PS off balance (assuming it's constructed in time), then a Superbijuudama follows which obliterates him.



You seriously think a roar will cause PS to go off balance? It will litterally do nothing to PS. 



> I'm not sure EMS Madara could react to BSM Naruto at this distance, he could likely blitz and smash him before PS is even constructed. 50m is literally less than a step for BSM Naruto. His tails are longer than that distance, theoretically he could tail smash him at start battle, aside from his obvious chakra arm affinity.



Madara's Sharingan has shown to be the most advanced thus far, EMS Sasuke reacted to Juubito. Not only that, but Madara has the physical speed to back up his reflexes, he is not getting blitzed. Susanoo is constructed nearly instantly anyways. It took all 9 tails to smash Madara's V3 Susanoo, which also forms nearly instantly. 

As for me, I really don't know lol. It can really go either way. It took 4 Jubidamas to take down PS though, so its not a definitive win for Naruto.

BTW, you don't think Naruto has surpassed EMS Madara by now because you restrict his biggest offence.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Feb 3, 2014)

Naruto takes it after constantly pounding away at PS until he can break it.

Madara can probably win with 100% Kyūbi on his side, though.


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## Kyu (Feb 3, 2014)

BSM Naruto wins if he can destroy PS using _Senpou: Super Bijudama_.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 3, 2014)

> You seriously think a roar will cause PS to go off balance? It will litterally do nothing to PS.


The roar sent 5 bijuu flying back arguably several kilometers in extreme pain whilst the roar interacted with them from more than 50m out. They were put down long enough for Naruto to blitz several bijuu without reaction. 

PS will be knocked over, or Madara will likely be killed because PS can't be activated before the roar hits his body, because he can't react to it, because the Sharingan bijuu didn't react to it, and he couldn't even react to Afternoon Tiger from a further distance. 



> Madara's Sharingan has shown to be the most advanced thus far, EMS Sasuke reacted to Juubito. Not only that, but Madara has the physical speed to back up his reflexes, he is not getting blitzed. Susanoo is constructed nearly instantly anyways. It took all 9 tails to smash Madara's V3 Susanoo, which also forms nearly instantly.


Sasuke in Senjutsu V3 Legged Susano reacted to Jubito, then was grappled by mere chakra arms and pulled down a dozen kilometers out of the air and choke slammed by Jubito. Sasuke combined with BSM Naruto reacted to a hovering Jubito who did nothing but hold his sword out.  

Sasuke did not react to Jubito, he was blitzed instantly on panel, Naruto saved him by grappling Minato with a chakra arm who also could not react to Jubito initially.

Madara didn't have the mental perception to activate PS before Afternoon Tiger hit him from arguably 100m+ out. BSM Naruto is faster than that. 



> BTW, you don't think Naruto has surpassed EMS Madara by now because you restrict his biggest offence.


Kurama is not his offense, it is a bijuu put under Genjutsu and forced to fight with him.

It's likely an initial roar or tail drop kills Madara at start battle. In all certainty, an initial Superbijuudama obliterates him at start battle.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 3, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> The roar sent 5 bijuu flying back arguably several kilometers in extreme pain whilst the roar interacted with them from more than 50m out. They were put down long enough for Naruto to blitz several bijuu without reaction.



Not a single thing about this post is correct. Several kilometers? More like 50M. Extreme pain? Where did you get that from? There was absolutely no signs that they where in extreme pain. 50M away? He was literally right in front of them. Put down long enough for Naruto to blitz them? Look how far 7-tails managed to go in the air. The only one that was on the ground after the roar was 3-tails............and he's a turtle. Without reaction? 3-tails reacted just fine. 



> PS will be knocked over, or Madara will likely be killed because PS can't be activated before the roar hits his body, because he can't react to it, because the Sharingan bijuu didn't react to it, and he couldn't even react to Afternoon Tiger.



PS WON'T be knocked over. Not only where the tailed beasts not sent that far, but PS is about 6 times larger then them, and a lot more durable. The roar would literally do nothing to it in the true sense of the word. You do realize that Naruto has to go BM mode himself right? In that time Madara can put up a huge Susanoo and stabilize it. If this is IC Madara would blitz of the get go anyways because Naruto won't go BM. He could not react to afternoon tiger? Did you  miss the context of the scenario? He was stopped by Naruto who'd amount of nowhere, he then drew his attention to Naruto and was about to stab him until Hirudora came In and swept him off his feat. The Biju did not have the Sharingan, the Jins lost it once they went Biju mode, we can clearly see there eye pupils. Madara's Sharingan is FAR more advanced then there's anyway, why are you even comparing the two. 



> Sasuke in Senjutsu V3 Legged Susano reacted to Jubito. Sasuke combined with BSM Naruto reacted to Jubito.



What does it matter what state his Jutsu was? Are you seriously implying that if he has Susanoo his reaction speed increases? Naruto and Sasuke where separate entities and they both reacted to Juubito, who is far faster then BM Naruto, 



> Sasuke did not react to Jubito, he was blitzed instantly on panel, Naruto saved him by grappling Minato who also could not react to Jubito.



Both Naruto and Sasuke and Minato where blitzed by mindless Juubito. But Sasuke was simply overconfident about his defence prevailing and let his guard down, not even I expected Juubito to break his Susanoo with his bare hands. 



> Madara didn't have the mental perception to activate PS before Afternoon Tiger hit him from arguably 100m+ out. BSM Naruto is faster than that.



Again, he was concentrating on Naruto and thought he had Gai and Bee all beat. 100m? Yeah right, he was within Susanoos meele range which he was about to use to finish them off. 



> Kurama is not his offense, it is a bijuu be put under Genjutsu and forced to fight with him.



Kurama is as much of Madaras offence as he is Narutos offence. To say otherwise is being pure biased.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 3, 2014)

> Not a single thing about this post is correct. Several kilometers? More like 50M. Extreme pain? Where did you get that from? There was absolutely no signs that they where in extreme pain. 50M away? He was literally right in front of them. Put down long enough for Naruto to blitz them? Look how far 7-tails managed to go in the air. The only one that was on the ground after the roar was 3-tails............and he's a turtle. Without reaction? 3-tails reacted just fine.


[1] [2].

The two tails started less than 100m from Naruto, it landed several kilometers away from Naruto post-roar. He then blitzes the 7 tailed beast [3] arguably 2KM+ away. This is BM Naruto, not BSM Naruto. 

The bijuus were being harbored by Edo Jinchuriki that have one Sharingan, and one Rinnegan, who were being controlled by Obito through Edo Tensei control and Gedo Mazo via chakra rod implants, which allow them the oculars of the puppet master (Obito- Sharingan/Rinnegan). The Juubi did not manifest Sharingan on it's pupils while Madara was hosting it, this is common knowledge. 

You are either blind or lack basic intelligence. 



> PS WON'T be knocked over. Not only where the tailed beasts not sent that far, but PS is about 6 times larger then them, and a lot more durable. The roar would literally do nothing to it in the true sense of the word. You do realize that Naruto has to go BM mode himself right? In that time Madara can put up a huge Susanoo and stabilize it. If this is IC Madara would blitz of the get go anyways because Naruto won't go BM. He could not react to afternoon tiger? Did you  miss the context of the scenario? He was stopped by Naruto who'd amount of nowhere, he then drew his attention to Naruto and was about to stab him until Hirudora came In and swept him off his feat. The Biju did not have the Sharingan, the Jins lost it once they went Biju mode, we can clearly see there eye pupils. Madara's Sharingan is FAR more advanced then there's anyway, why are you even comparing the two.


PS will clearly be knocked over or back long enough for Naruto to blitz toward it and entangle it, or destroy it with a superbijuudama.

No, he does not. The thread is BSM Naruto vs. EMS Madara. Naruto starts in BSM, Madara starts in base. 

You clearly do not understand how to debate in this section. 



> What does it matter what state his Jutsu was? Are you seriously implying that if he has Susanoo his reaction speed increases? Naruto and Sasuke where separate entities and they both reacted to Juubito, who is far faster then BM Naruto,


Indeed I am, the Susano is enhanced with Natural Energy, which canonically increases speed and reactions.

Naruto and Sasuke were initially blitzed by Jubito on the ground, their foreheads were grappled by both of Obito's arms and he was literally about to push a chakra weapon through their heads before Minato warped them to safety.  



> Both Naruto and Sasuke and Minato where blitzed by mindless Juubito. But Sasuke was simply overconfident about his defence prevailing and let his guard down, not even I expected Juubito to break his Susanoo with his bare hands.


Minato was never blitzed, his arm was taken off when his weapon was slashed through by Obito's chakra and he warped away to safety.

It wasn't a matter of breaking his Susano, he closed the distance and placed his hands on Sasuke's and Naruto's foreheads before they even noticed. 



> Again, he was concentrating on Naruto and thought he had Gai and Bee all beat. 100m? Yeah right, he was within Susanoos meele range which he was about to use to finish them off.



It doesn't really matter, he was unable to react to the technique which is inferior to BSM Naruto's speed.


> Kurama is as much of Madaras offence as he is Narutos offence. To say otherwise is being pure biased.


Nope, Kurama openly allows Naruto to partner with him and he actually makes Kurama stronger.

Clear disparities.


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## Cheeky Nayrudo (Feb 3, 2014)

Madara takes this match-up. He simply outlasts Naruto's few minute avatar duration and them kills him. Or he can summon Kurama, leaving Naruto in excruciating pain, not being able to do anything and then strikes him down. Low-diff at most.​


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## Fiiction (Feb 4, 2014)

Hmm ems madara without kyuubi aww. Naruto high-difficulty
Btw this is the ONLY version of madara that naruto beats.


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## ARGUS (Feb 4, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> BTW, you don't think Naruto has surpassed EMS Madara by now because you restrict his biggest offence.



well since having naruto already hhas thhe kyuubi 
and with 100% kyuubi its obvious that madara would win


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## ARGUS (Feb 4, 2014)

Elia said:


> Naruto is stronger obviously.
> 
> is he allowed to use Pa & Ma here?



hasnt been restricted, so i dont see why not 



DaVizWiz said:


> A roar at start battle (50m) would knock his PS off balance (assuming it's constructed in time), then a Superbijuudama follows which obliterates him.



kyuubi roar isnt enough for PS,, it can easily tank it  
it took 4 juubi TBB to destroy it,,,
4 Juubidamas >>>>> Kurama Roar 



Cheeky Nayrudo said:


> Madara takes this match-up. *He simply outlasts Naruto's few minute avatar duration *and them kills him. *Or he can summon Kurama*, leaving Naruto in excruciating pain, not being able to do anything and then strikes him down. *Low-diff at most*.



How is madara simply outlasting naruto when he would need his PS which is his most powerful move and is possibly consuming alot of chakra 
Naruto in BSM has the means to destroy his PS as sage empowered TBB are something madara has to worry about 
Kurama is restricted for madara,, its in the OP 
No way in hell is this a low diff fight for any of them


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 4, 2014)

Perfect Susano'o simply outlasts Naruto's BSM, and the latter isn't going to bust the thing.
As soon as the shroud disappears, Naruto gets raped within seconds.

Canonically, Madara fought Hashirama and the clan for 24 hours; he likely used Susano'o variants, too. Because he isn't controlling the Kyuubi, it's only fair to say that PS can be held longer than BM.

Madara's chakra pool is ridiculous.


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## KyuubiFan (Feb 4, 2014)

I think BSM Naruto is stronger than EMS Madara, especially without Kurama. If Madara also has Kurama it'd probably end with his victory.

However, Rin'negan Madara is still far superior to any version of Naruto, not to mention Sage Rin'negan Madara.


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## Triggenism (Feb 4, 2014)

In my opinion BSM Naruto wins extreme difficulty.

I see him nuking PS with senpou: bijuudamas and COFRS from KCM clones. I see him eventually blasting PS and Madara off the planet thanks to his firepower.

If Madara had kyuubi he would win though. And I agree with a former poster. This is the only version of Madara that Naruto can win against.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 4, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> [1] [2].
> 
> The two tails started less than 100m from Naruto, it landed several kilometers away from Naruto post-roar. He then blitzes the 7 tailed beast [3] arguably 2KM+ away. This is BM Naruto, not BSM Naruto.



Dude, of you seriously think that that is 2km+ away you need to learn how long a kilometre is. He did not blitz 7-tails either, he simply overpowered him. 



> The bijuus were being harbored by Edo Jinchuriki that have one Sharingan, and one Rinnegan, who were being controlled by Obito through Edo Tensei control and Gedo Mazo via chakra rod implants, which allow them the oculars of the puppet master (Obito- Sharingan/Rinnegan). The Juubi did not manifest Sharingan on it's pupils while Madara was hosting it, this is common knowledge.



You do realize that the Bijus and the Jins where seperate entities at that point right? You do realize that the Jins where Edos but the Bijus where still alive right? Besides, I don't see why this matters. 




> PS will clearly be knocked over or back long enough for Naruto to blitz toward it and entangle it, or destroy it with a superbijuudama.



You lack basic knowledge of the manga if you really think PS will get knocked over..........that's absolutely ridiculous. Entangle it? Seriously?  even better. And may I ask you how he will entangle it when he is the size of its head? Is a Super Bijudama stronger then 4 Jubidamas? I don't think so.,




> You clearly do not understand how to debate in this section.



That's why I'm crushing your arguments right? 



> Indeed I am, the Susano is enhanced with Natural Energy, which canonically increases speed and reactions.



. Was Sasuke himself himself enhanced with SM? Can Ametarasu increase Sasukes reaction speed to? How about Chidori? Susanoo is not giving its user better reaction speed. Sasuke clearly followed Juubito all the wa through with his own eyes. Your in denial.



> Naruto and Sasuke were initially blitzed by Jubito on the ground, their foreheads were grappled by both of Obito's arms and he was literally about to push a chakra weapon through their heads before Minato warped them to safety.



Like I said. Sasuke can in to save him thinking Juubito cannot break his defence. And Juubito broke it. 



> It wasn't a matter of breaking his Susano, he closed the distance and placed his hands on Sasuke's and Naruto's foreheads before they even noticed.



Did you ignore the part where Susnaoo was used?


Is called pushing someone back..............pay attention to where Naruto is, not Gai because Hirudora clearly pushes Madara back. 



> It doesn't really matter, he was unable to react to the technique which is inferior to BSM Naruto's speed.



He was being held down by Naruto and was concentrating on Naruto, this is why he was hit. At this point you are denying facts. 



> Nope, Kurama openly allows Naruto to partner with him and he actually makes Kurama stronger.
> 
> Clear disparities.



No. Kurama is just as much of Madaras weapon as he is Narutos. They both use him but the ways they use him are different. In the end, he is part of both there offences.


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## Trojan (Feb 4, 2014)

xxHKCDxx said:


> hasnt been restricted, so i dont see why not



Then Naruto wins rather easily. The only thing that can make madara for long is his PS, with the frogs being here thay can make the PS vanish with their sound jutsus. It worth to mention that their jutsus are going to be much stronger and* faster* to use because of Naruto's chakra. 

Madara can do nothing against the Frog Song. 

The other point, Naruto can use 9 Rasengans from his tails as well, and we saw that was strong enough to destroy obito's shield which was the Sage's. Thus, I don't see why he can't break through the PS when he did that to a stronger shield (and sword).


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## Fiiction (Feb 4, 2014)

xxHKCDxx said:


> is possibly consuming alot of chakra



Madara used PS for an entire night, while he was controlling kurama for a couple hours. He also fight 24 hours straight before, I don't think chakra is a problem for Madara.


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## Fiiction (Feb 4, 2014)

Elia said:


> Madara can do nothing against the Frog Song.
> 
> .



So Madara, an EMS sharingan user with great chakra control can't do anything against the "Frog Song"


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## Trojan (Feb 4, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> So Madara, an EMS sharingan user with great chakra control can't do anything against the "Frog Song"



If he can, go a head and tell us what he can do?


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## Fiiction (Feb 4, 2014)

Elia said:


> If he can, go a head and tell us what he can do?



no, I'm not trying to start a debate or anything I was just wondering if he could see through it knowing that he is 3-tomoe sharingan user.


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## Trojan (Feb 4, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> no, I'm not trying to start a debate or anything I was just wondering if he could see through it knowing that he is 3-tomoe sharingan user.



Even the Rinnegan couldn't see though that. Also, itachi & Sasuke were effected by Tayuya's genjutsu even though he genjutsu is only a B-rank. They also has the MS & EMS. 

Now, the frogs' genjutsu is MUCH stronger, so having EMS or MS is irrelevant. 


> Inside the genjutsu world, the targets are surrounded from all sides by four toad samurai, *with their mind and body completely sealed *between their hands in an illusionary cube of water.


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## Fiiction (Feb 4, 2014)

Elia said:


> Even the Rinnegan couldn't see though that. Also, itachi & Sasuke were effected by Tayuya's genjutsu even though he genjutsu is only a B-rank. They also has the MS & EMS.
> 
> Now, the frogs' genjutsu is MUCH stronger, so having EMS or MS is irrelevant.



Rinnegan? Since when has the rinnegan showed greater resistance from genjutsu than the sharingan?

Yes, tayuya's genjutsu was greatly enhanced by DSM. And whoever said that itachi and sasuke has greater chakra control than madara?


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## Blu-ray (Feb 4, 2014)

This fight is gonna come down to Bijuu Mode vs PS, because all other techniques in this fight will be irrelevant. Madara is going to have significant difficulty damaging Naruto's BM shroud, and the same goes for Madara's PS, because if it isn't destroyed in one blow, Madara will just reform it. The fight rests on what a Sage empowered super bijuudama can do, something we haven't seen yet.



DaVizWiz said:


> A roar at start battle (50m) would knock his PS off balance (assuming it's constructed in time), then a Superbijuudama follows which obliterates him.
> 
> I'm not sure EMS Madara could react to BSM Naruto at this distance, he could likely blitz and smash him before PS is even constructed. 50m is literally less than a step for BSM Naruto. His tails are longer than that distance, theoretically he could tail smash him at start battle, aside from his obvious chakra arm affinity.



Why are all of your posts nonsense? A roar won't even phase PS. It has much greater defenses and far more sturdy than a Bijuu. It even took Kurama's Bijudama being rammed into it and didn't even move. I don't recall seeing Madara having trouble constructing PS. He could make it before the Bijuudama he sent came back into him. It took Shinsuusenju to destroy it. Forgive me if I don't think a SuperBijuudama which is practically featless obliterates it. And blitz? Unless Naruto's speed is superior to Juubito, that isn't going to happen.


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## Kickflip Uzumaki (Feb 4, 2014)

Naruto high diff.


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## Raishin15 (Feb 4, 2014)

Naruto wins easily, he would only have a problem against rinegan madara..remember when madara had to evolve immediately to rinnegan shortly after being revived to absolve d rasenshuriken thrown at him by naruto. Im pretty sure he wuld have been destroyed if he had remained in ems mode.


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## Krippy (Feb 4, 2014)

EMS Madara's full arsenal hasnt been revealed yet, but even with what he's shown he should take this with mid-high diff. All he needs to do is keep hacking at the kurama avatar for eight minutes until naruto's BM runs out and he returns to base. Then he just cleans house.


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## Cheeky Nayrudo (Feb 4, 2014)

xxHKCDxx said:


> How is madara simply outlasting naruto when he would need his PS which is his most powerful move and is possibly consuming alot of chakra.


He fought Hashirama for a day straight, Naruto can only keep the avatar up for few minutes as seen many times in the manga. Naruto without his shroud gets stepped on.​


> Naruto in BSM has the means to destroy his PS as sage empowered TBB are something madara has to worry about


Senjutsu makes up for the lack of power his half Kyuubi has, so it equals out.​


> Kurama is restricted for madara,, its in the OP


Ok​


> No way in hell is this a low diff fight for any of them


But it is, Naruto isn't breaching something 20x his BSM's size. PS steps on the shroud and cancels it out like Obito did slamming them on to the ground.

Low-diff for Madara even with restriction.​


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 4, 2014)

Madara's Perfect Susanoo was destroyed in the process but it successfully protected him from Hashirama's Shinsuugen without injury to his body.

Shinnsuugen's focused punching combo is probably pound for pound thee most powerful attack in terms of energy exerted over a small, focused area. 

Physics I of course, but most the energy of a TBB isn't getting imparted on Perfect Susanoo, and I'm hard pressed to believe the energy that is actually imparted and is being spread across susanoo still has more splash damage than shinsuugen's punches focused on an area. Still can't prove it one way or another though, so.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 4, 2014)

Naruto takes it


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 4, 2014)

Elia said:


> Then Naruto wins rather easily. The only thing that can make madara for long is his PS, with the frogs being here thay can make the PS vanish with their sound jutsus. It worth to mention that their jutsus are going to be much stronger and* faster* to use because of Naruto's chakra.
> 
> Madara can do nothing against the Frog Song.
> 
> The other point, Naruto can use 9 Rasengans from his tails as well, and we saw that was strong enough to destroy obito's shield which was the Sage's. Thus, I don't see why he can't break through the PS when he did that to a stronger shield (and sword).



Madara kills the frogs before they can do anything. There sound won't be faster, the melody is comepletly dependent on them, chakra won't make there sync any better. Juubito's defence was *very * weak to SM attacks. He easily tanked his own Bijudama but a SM Rasengan penetrated right through him. So them beating him with SM Jutsu means nothing because PS is not weak against SM attacks in any way.


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## Arles Celes (Feb 4, 2014)

Elia said:


> If he can, go a head and tell us what he can do?



Does it mean that Frog Song is invincible unlike any other ability in the manga?

Would even Rikudou Sannin be powerless against Frog Song?

Personally I see any jutsu working when the target of the jutsu is not vastly superior to the user. The combined might of Ma and Pa could not be so inferior to 3 Pain bodies especially when Nagato himself was much stronger than all of his bodies put together anyway.

A jutsu is only as good as the user. And things like databook hype are pointless as it is full of exaggerations like how Amaterasu is as hot as the sun or Yata mirror being impenetrable.


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## Jak N Blak (Feb 4, 2014)

Gosh...stop waking me from my Cryo-sleep with Naruto/Lord Kurama threads unless its balanced.

Unfortunately this is a stomp. Naruto does even need to fully awaken Lord Kurama's cloak to combat EMS Madara.

With an attack such as the BSM COFRS in hand...there is nothing stopping Naruto from achieving victory in humanoid form.


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## Silver Surfer (Feb 4, 2014)

I see Naruto taking this but i could be wrong.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 4, 2014)

Jak N Blak said:


> Gosh...stop waking me from my Cryo-sleep with Naruto/Lord Kurama threads unless its balanced.
> 
> Unfortunately this is a stomp. Naruto does even need to fully awaken Lord Kurama's cloak to combat EMS Madara.
> 
> With an attack such as the BSM COFRS in hand...there is nothing stopping Naruto from achieving victory in humanoid form.



Naruto can't break PS in humanoid form. Its doubtable wether he can break PS at all. The only reason I see Naruto winning this is by outlasting Madara, but I'm not to sure and am leaving it at a tie as of now.


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## Cheeky Nayrudo (Feb 4, 2014)

And it got to the point of Naruto without avatar can beat Madara, COFRS? ​


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## Jak N Blak (Feb 4, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Naruto can't break PS in humanoid form. Its doubtable wether he can break PS at all. The only reason I see Naruto winning this is by outlasting Madara, but I'm not to sure and am leaving it at a tie as of now.



LOL. It's EMS Madara FFS.



Cheeky Nayrudo said:


> And it got to the point of Naruto without avatar can beat Madara, COFRS? ​



*BIJUU-SAGEMODE ENHANCED* Chou Odama Rasenshuriken.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 4, 2014)

Jak N Blak said:


> LOL. It's EMS Madara FFS.



What's your point. He can use PS.


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## Jak N Blak (Feb 4, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> What's your point. He can use PS.



Exactly. Base Hashirama was standing before PS-Kurama without issue. SM was only needed to give him to offensive power to put it down, but to survive against PS? Man, Base Hashirama was GOLDEN. He even ran away from the fucker while he throwing slashes at him.

BSM however? Oh shit...

PS and its linear strikes...
LINEAR
As if BM speed wasn't overkill. BSM speed? In which universe will a PS attack connect?

It is only a matter of time until the distance (50m? HAHA!) is closed and PS gets two BSMOFRSz in his chest/back.


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## Fiiction (Feb 4, 2014)

I feel that ps is being highly underestimated. Madara can summon v3 susanoo nigh instantly. And I'm pretty sure ps can deflect/obliterate  a tbb or even tank one.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 4, 2014)

Jak N Blak said:


> Exactly. Base Hashirama was standing before PS-Kurama without issue. SM was only needed to give him to offensive power to put it down, but to survive against PS? Man, Base Hashirama was GOLDEN. He even ran away from the fucker while he throwing slashes at him.
> 
> BSM however? Oh shit...
> 
> ...



If it continued Hashirama would have died, which is why he used SM. Base Hashirama>BM Naruto anyways the way I see it. BSM lacks feats of speed, or feats in general for the matter (other then SM enhanced attacks). No form of FRS is doing anything notable to PS if it took 4 Jubidamas to destroy it. I'm not saying Madara wins, but Naruto is not winning this as easy as you make it out to be if at all.


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## Psp123789 (Feb 4, 2014)

Naruto wins low-mid diff. Super TBB spam ends Madara and whatever defense he has up.


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## Cheeky Nayrudo (Feb 4, 2014)

Jak N Blak said:


> LOL. It's EMS Madara FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> *BIJUU-SAGEMODE ENHANCED* Chou Odama Rasenshuriken.


And? Is that supposed to do something? The same thing that couldn't destroy Edo Madara.​


Jak N Blak said:


> Exactly. Base Hashirama was standing before PS-Kurama without issue. SM was only needed to give him to offensive power to put it down, but to survive against PS? Man, Base Hashirama was GOLDEN. He even ran away from the fucker while he throwing slashes at him.


Wrong, Hashi was running away without having anything shot at him. The first Bijūdama coming at him he had to use 5 Rashōmon and was left defenseless, that's why he had to go into Sennin Mōdo to survive.​


> BSM however? Oh shit...
> 
> PS and its linear strikes...
> LINEAR
> As if BM speed wasn't overkill. BSM speed? In which universe will a PS attack connect?


A full 360 degree swing will get him. If not not Madara will have no problem as his EMS allows him to follow Naruto's movement easy, just like how he reacted to a BM shunsin standing still.​


> It is only a matter of time until the distance (50m? HAHA!) is closed and PS gets two BSMOFRSz in his chest/back.


Is that supposed to hurt it? PS flicks that tiny thing away.

Low-diff for Madara.​


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 4, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> Naruto wins low-mid diff. Super TBB spam ends Madara and whatever defense he has up.



4 Jubidamas>>>>Super TBB


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## Jagger (Feb 4, 2014)

Cheeky Nayrudo said:


> Madara takes this match-up. He simply outlasts Naruto's few minute avatar duration and them kills him. Or he can summon Kurama, leaving Naruto in excruciating pain, not being able to do anything and then strikes him down. Low-diff at most.​


I'm sure the duration of Naruto's giant chakra cloak is much larger than the original 5-minutes long time. Not only that, but Madara will need to kill Naruto in his human form which isn't any kind of easy task, tbh.

Not to mention Madara's PS might get damaged or even destroyed by Naruto's constant attacks during the time limit. Also, do you really believe Naruto will just stand there and do nothing? Few seconds after Naruto was in pain, Kurama gave him enough chakra and he stopped Madara's Jukai Koutan. It might give him an opening, but one not long enough.


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## Fiiction (Feb 4, 2014)

Jak N Blak said:


> Exactly. Base Hashirama was standing before PS-Kurama without issue. SM was only needed to give him to offensive power to put it down, but to survive against PS? Man, Base Hashirama was GOLDEN. He even ran away from the fucker while he throwing slashes at him.
> 
> BSM however? Oh shit...
> 
> ...



Hashirama was Fucking losing the battle slowly. If it wasn't for sm (auto healing) and Shinsuusenju he would've eventually lost. Even after using sm he won high-extreme difficulty


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## Jagger (Feb 4, 2014)

Madara's Perfect Susano'O was destroyed by Juubito's barrage of Bijuudama. Some pieces of his face are missing and you can see it's different from an Edo's face usually is.

Not to mention the fact both Hashirama's Mokujin and Madara's PS were gone after the attack and I doubt they just both turned off their gundams for the lulz.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 4, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Madara's Perfect Susano'O was destroyed by Juubito's barrage of Bijuudama. Some pieces of his face are missing and you can see it's different from an Edo's face usually is.
> 
> Not to mention the fact both Hashirama's Mokujin and Madara's PS were gone after the attack and I doubt they just both turned off their gundams for the lulz.



No. Madara was not harmed, his Edo cracks where exactly like they where prior to the Jubidamas. Needless to say that PS was indeed destroyed (for the most part). Jubidamas>Any type of Narutos Bijudama.


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## Cheeky Nayrudo (Feb 4, 2014)

Jagger said:


> I'm sure the duration of Naruto's giant chakra cloak is much larger than the original 5-minutes long time. Not only that, but Madara will need to kill Naruto in his human form which isn't any kind of easy task, tbh.


We haven't seen him keep it up for longer than that so I'm sticking with that. After all, he only unlocked it few hours ago in Naruto time.
Madara was shown reacting to BM Naruto's shunshin rather easily, standing still. He has speed to keep up with Naruto.​


> Not to mention Madara's PS might get damaged or even destroyed by Naruto's constant attacks during the time limit.


And Madara can counter with his own attacks, he isn't going to stand there and let Naruto shoot things at him. Let's just say there's no way Naruto can get off a charged TBB since Madara will just interrupt it mid-way and let it explode right above Naruto himself. 11 PS infused TBB + several hundred gigantic arms only managed to strip off a part of PS layer, now it's a full-bodied one instead of a layer wrapping around Kurama so naturally it's durability increases. And it's way bigger than Naruto's shroud, Naruto gets slaughtered.​


> Also, do you really believe Naruto will just stand there and do nothing? *Few seconds after Naruto was in pain*, Kurama gave him enough chakra and he stopped Madara's Jukai Koutan. It might give him an opening, but one not long enough.


Few seconds is long enough, base Naruto can be cut in half by gunbai.​


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## Jagger (Feb 4, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> No. Madara was not harmed, his Edo cracks where exactly like they where prior to the Jubidamas. Needless to say that PS was indeed destroyed (for the most part). Jubidamas>Any type of Narutos Bijudama.


Not exactly. I can look up the panel, but it'd be later.

I'm aware of that, but it doesn't exclude the possibility of Naruto's Bijuudama destroying Perfect Susano'O or breaking it. After all, PS is indeed featless on his own and the only way to escalate its defensive power is through power-scaling and that's all.

BSM Naruto is one hell of a monster when it comes to firepower. Take everything Naruto has shown and make it twice the stronger it is.


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## ARGUS (Feb 5, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Hashirama was Fucking losing the battle slowly. If it wasn't for sm (auto healing) and Shinsuusenju he would've eventually lost. Even after using sm he won high-extreme difficulty



Madara had full kyuubi then,, thats why,,, this madara doesnt have kyuubi 



			
				Cheeky Nayrudo said:
			
		

> 11 PS infused TBB + several hundred gigantic arms only managed to strip off a part of PS layer,



It wasnt a part of PS layer, the entire PS was removed as it was even stated by madara



> Naruto gets slaughtered



No one gets slaughtered in this matchup,, i believe its atleast a high diff fight for both of them 



> Wrong, Hashi was running away without having anything shot at him. The first Bijūdama coming at him he had to use 5 Rashōmon and was left defenseless, that's why he had to go into Sennin Mōdo to survive.



Hashiramas wood dragons were fighting on par with PS,, 
therefore it could be said that base hashirama = ems madara without kyuubi
this madara doesnt have the kyuubi



> The same thing that couldn't destroy Edo Madara



Well Edo Madara > EMS Madara since he has rinnegan and mokuton



			
				Psp123789 said:
			
		

> Naruto wins low-mid diff. Super TBB spam ends Madara and whatever defense he has up.



No ones winning this low diff 
TBB can be deflected by PS slashes 
this is a high diff fight for both fighters



			
				Destiny Monarch said:
			
		

> Naruto can't break PS in humanoid form. Its doubtable wether he can break PS at all. The only reason I see Naruto winning this is by outlasting Madara, but I'm not to sure and am leaving it at a tie as of now.



Why cant naruto break PS,,, while its obvious that 4 juubi TBB >>>> Narutos TBB 
naruto can still compete with PS as his kurama avatar has great durability 
and i believe with SM enhancements his senjutsu powered TBB would have great firepower as TBB spam can arguably destroy his PS


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## Panther (Feb 5, 2014)

BSM Naruto would stomp EMS Madara. Based on feats BM Naruto would take this with mid-diff.


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## Fiiction (Feb 5, 2014)

xxHKCDxx said:


> Why cant naruto break PS,,, while its obvious that 4 juubi TBB >>>> Narutos TBB
> naruto can still compete with PS as his kurama avatar has great durability
> and i believe with SM enhancements his senjutsu powered TBB would have great firepower as TBB spam can arguably destroy his PS


 
Like madara is just gonna sit there and let him spam tbb seriously. Madara can blitz naruto, so I don't see naruto getting a tbb off that easily.


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## ueharakk (Feb 5, 2014)

When Naruto first debuted with BM, he pumped out bijuudamas that rivaled the size of PS, and could hold the mode for 5 minutes.

The second time he used BM, he held it for 8, and that was after getting his avatar absorbed, making BM clones, and using way more chakra in his bijuudamas than the first time.

Since then, he's used BM 2 more times.  

Featwise and PIS off, EMS Madara w/o Kurama wouldn't even beat BM Naruto.  Madara's PS isn't surviving a bijuudama that rivals itself in size without major damage, especially when it canonically gets busted by an attack that's equal to 11 standard bijuudamas and yields an explosion much smaller.  Madara's PS isn't destroying NAruto's BM avatar when his strongest attack (PS sword slash) is only comparable in power to a normal bijuudama, all the while Naruto blocks attacks much more powerful than a normal bijuudama (the juubi's laser) with just 6 of his BM tails.  

Next as far as ability to hold up PS is concerned, madara while alive has never held it for a longer time than Naruto has held his BM.  Factor in Naruto logically being able to hold his mode for pretty much as long as he wants due to his link with kurama so perfect that he can manipulate and distribute the beats's chakra so flawlessly + the fact that the battle isn't even going to last long due to the ridiculously high damage output of Naruto's attacks, the chances of Madara winning a battle of attrition is pretty much insignificant. 

So really, as long as plot doesn't demand Naruto lose Naruto is statistically superior in pretty much everything except for size of construct, intelligence and experience (both which don't really play a role in monster fights).



Destiny Monarch said:


> No. Madara was not harmed, his Edo cracks where exactly like they where prior to the Jubidamas. Needless to say that PS was indeed destroyed (for the most part). Jubidamas>Any type of Narutos Bijudama.



Unless you want to claim that mokujin, the same construct that gets obliterated by 1 normal bijuudama, is just as durable as PS, then madara being seen intact over an entire chapter after the quadrupel juubidamas go off is no evidence for the assertion that he survived it or wasn't harmed since Hashirama was seen in the same state as Madara on that same page that you use as proof.  Not only that, but the juubidama's didn't even directly hit his PS, and we know that not getting directly hit by a bijuudama yields much less damage on a non-terrain object based on pretty much any bijuudama feat.


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## Arles Celes (Feb 5, 2014)

Portrayal wise I don't think even BSM Naruto is on EMS Madara's or Hashirama's level.

Nuke wise though Naruto's full power bijudama has a greater destructive power than Madara's PS slashes.

Tough call...


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## ueharakk (Feb 5, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> Portrayal wise I don't think even BSM Naruto is on EMS Madara's or Hashirama's level.


Portrayal wise, the EMS Madara in this thread isn't on Hashirama's level. 

Portrayal wise, Karin is > Ei, Mei, Hiruzen, Oonoki and the cloaked alliance

So there really is no portrayal argument to be made here unless you are talking about the Madara that fought Hashirama at VoTe.



Arles Celes said:


> Nuke wise though Naruto's full power bijudama has a greater destructive power than Madara's PS slashes.
> 
> Tough call...


Naruto's full power bijuudama has magnitudes more destructive power than Madara's PS slashes considering the slashes destroy what normal bijuudamas destroy.

And that's all just BM Naruto, nothing about BSM Naruto who's jutsu get much stronger when he imbues them with senjutsu.  I don't think this is a tough call at all.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 5, 2014)

Ignoring what PS can take in damage, I'm not sure that KM Naruto can take the perfect susano slashes.  Madara was able to make and throw blades at machine gun speeds to add to the bijuudama shot, and swinging a sword around is probably faster than blasting charge shots.  I guess if Madara just stands there and lets Naruto shoot him we won't have to worry about that kind of stuff though.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 5, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Unless you want to claim that mokujin, the same construct that gets obliterated by 1 normal bijuudama, is just as durable as PS, then madara being seen intact over an entire chapter after the quadrupel juubidamas go off is no evidence for the assertion that he survived it or wasn't harmed since Hashirama was seen in the same state as Madara on that same page that you use as proof.  Not only that, but the juubidama's didn't even directly hit his PS, and we know that not getting directly hit by a bijuudama yields much less damage on a non-terrain object based on pretty much any bijuudama feat.



First of all, Mokujin at VOTE tanked a Bijudama just fine. Secondly, the Mokujin that faced off against PS in the current arc was many times bigger then the Mokoujin that was at VOTE. Hashirama was not seen in the same state as Madara, we saw a small figure in the distance. PS did take 4 Jubidamas to go down. Its true that if not hit directly they are less powerful, but still more powerful then Narutos Bijudamas. And 4 of them is more firepower then Naruto can muster up to take down PS in one go. Though Naruto can possibly outlast him. Which is why I put this as a tie, I don't know who would beat who.


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## ARGUS (Feb 5, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> No. Madara was not harmed, his Edo cracks where exactly like they where prior to the Jubidamas. Needless to say that PS was indeed destroyed (for the most part). Jubidamas>Any type of Narutos Bijudama.



juubi damas are not the benchmark that is required to succumb in-order to penetrate PS 
it is still possible to destroy it through other jutsu like SS


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## ARGUS (Feb 5, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Like madara is just gonna sit there and let him spam tbb seriously. *Madara can blitz naruto*, so I don't see naruto getting a tbb off that easily.



Madara is not gna sit there,, i did respond to yu that he would use his PS slashes to deflect some away,,, however it is true that since Naruto would be spamming TBB, Madara would be forced to stay on the defense as the minute PS comes out, the battle would be long range 
and will literally be a brawl of PS slashes vs TBB spam
At bold,, Naruto is faster than EMS Madara,, i think it should be obvious through the manga,,, how does madara blitz naruto then??? 



			
				Arles Celes said:
			
		

> Portrayal wise I don't think even BSM Naruto is on EMS Madara's or Hashirama's level.



That EMS Madara had full kyuubi,,,in this matchup only naruto has it 
even then we should look more at feats rather than potrayal since they are more accurate towards making a precise judgement  



			
				ueharakk said:
			
		

> Unless you want to claim that mokujin, the same construct that gets obliterated by 1 normal bijuudama, is just as durable as PS,



well hashis wood dragons were fighting on par with PS regardless of their durability feats


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## Nikushimi (Feb 5, 2014)

Pretty sure Naruto wins this thanks to lolSenjutsu.

Give Madara the Rinnegan and Mokuton for better results.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 5, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Pretty sure Naruto wins this thanks to lolSenjutsu.
> 
> Give Madara the Rinnegan and Mokuton for better results.



lol last time I checked Madara with Rinnengan fodderized all 9 Biju. Naruto would not stand a chance. Naruto would also loose to a Madara with Mokouton. EMS Madara (Without Kurama) vs BSM Naruto is the most even match-up Naruto can hope to have with a version of Madaras, The other versions destroy him.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 5, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> lol last time I checked Madara with Rinnengan fodderized all 9 Biju. Naruto would not stand a chance.



That was Rinnegan Madara with Hashirama's Sage Mode.

And yeah, he would anally violate BSM Naruto. In a big way.

But this isn't that Madara.


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## Ersa (Feb 5, 2014)

Naruto wins this. Only Edo Madara, Post-ET Madara or obviously Juubidara can beat BSM Naruto. He has to camp PS to survive while Naruto zips around nuking him with Bijuudama Renzaku volleys.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 5, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Naruto wins this. Only Edo Madara, Post-ET Madara or obviously Juubidara can beat BSM Naruto. He has to camp PS to survive while Naruto zips around nuking him with Bijuudama Renzaku volleys.



Or EMS Madara with Kurama


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## Psp123789 (Feb 5, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> 4 Jubidamas>>>>Super TBB


Didn't tank any of them directly and is an edo. He even said he didn't need to worry about them because he is an edo. So he regenerated. PS was almost completely destroyed by SS. Naruto can easily match that with super TBB spam. Madara can't do much besides camp in susano'o and wait for Naruto to destroy his PS.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 6, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> Didn't tank any of them directly and is an edo. He even said he didn't need to worry about them because he is an edo. So he regenerated. PS was almost completely destroyed by SS. Naruto can easily match that with super TBB spam. Madara can't do much besides camp in susano'o and wait for Naruto to destroy his PS.



He did tank them, his Edo cracks where the same, he had bruises (which indicates that he did not regenerate or they would have not been there) and if he was fully destroyed it woud have taken him as long to regenerate as Tobirama, which was like 2 chapters. Madara can Slah him. Lets not forgt that Bijudamas require charging time, PS slash can hit Him while he is standing.


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## Gin Ichimaru (Feb 7, 2014)

What's stopping Madara from genjutsu raping Kyuubi?


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## babaGAReeb (Feb 7, 2014)

It would be kinda weird if Nardo beats Madara with just half a kyubi so I think Madara would win and stomp on nardo's head and crush it with PS


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## Trojan (Feb 7, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> He did tank them, his Edo cracks where the same, he had bruises (which indicates that he did not regenerate or they would have not been there) and if he was fully destroyed it woud have taken him as long to regenerate as Tobirama, which was like 2 chapters. Madara can Slah him. Lets not forgt that Bijudamas require charging time, PS slash can hit Him while he is standing.



lol, such nonsense. The TBBs that obito used foddrized both madara and hashiama completely. 
Even their jutsus got annihilated.

As for the time, there is no specific time for the ET to  regenerate, especially that Kabuto's ET is better than Oro's.
Madara himself has an even better one from Kabuto.

Also, it's true that Tobirama took like 2 chapters, but Hiruzen took like 6 or so, how do you explain that?


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## ARGUS (Feb 7, 2014)

Elia said:


> Also, it's true that Tobirama took like 2 chapters, but Hiruzen took like 6 or so, how do you explain that?



Its called plot my friend,,,,,,, 
2 FTG users were needed alongside naruto and sasuke to even pose a slight threat to Juubito 
as for hiruzen,,,, his grand entrance was delayed for suspense and his fans


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## Jagger (Feb 7, 2014)

Cheeky Nayrudo said:


> We haven't seen him keep it up for longer than that so I'm sticking with that. After all, he only unlocked it few hours ago in Naruto time.
> Madara was shown reacting to BM Naruto's shunshin rather easily, standing still. He has speed to keep up with Naruto.​


The last time we heard about the time limit was 8 minutes. When Naruto went with Sasuke to fight Juubito, neither of them had troubles to use their chakra forms. Naruto didn't even point out once that the time limit was being a problem to him, in fact, when Obito crushed them both (Naruto and Sasuke) against the ground, the Uzumaki easily activated the cloak once more.

In fact, the only reason he didn't use it before it's due the great amount of chakra Naruto has been using from his Bijuu.

Madara reacted to a pretty basic and linear attack from Naruto, it's no surprise he can keep with it. However, multiple clones attacking him in a non linear-fashion way would be far more difficult. 


> And Madara can counter with his own attacks, he isn't going to stand there and let Naruto shoot things at him. Let's just say there's no way Naruto can get off a charged TBB since Madara will just interrupt it mid-way and let it explode right above Naruto himself. 11 PS infused TBB + several hundred gigantic arms only managed to strip off a part of PS layer, now it's a full-bodied one instead of a layer wrapping around Kurama so naturally it's durability increases. And it's way bigger than Naruto's shroud, Naruto gets slaughtered.​


Naruto can shoot his Bijuudama quite fast, actually. The 5 Bijuu started charging their Bijuudama a bit earlier before Naruto and yet, he was able to send his own Bijuudama to collide his enemy's. That implies a good speed when it comes to firing. 

Also, '_11 PS infused TBB several hundred gigantic arms only managed to strip off a part of PS layer'_? When did this happen, exactly? My memory is quite rusty sometimes...



> Few seconds is long enough, base Naruto can be cut in half by gunbai.​


Why would you believe the pain caused to Naruto would instantly turn off Naruto's chakra cloak? In fact, why would Madara's summoning process be faster than Naruto activating his cloak and rushing ahead to where Madara is? It's risky for the latter to take his eyes off from Naruto even for a second.


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## Kyu (Feb 7, 2014)

Gin Ichimaru said:


> What's stopping Madara from genjutsu raping Kyuubi?



The fact he's facing a Perfect Jinchuriki. 

If it was possible for Madara to lelgenjutsu Naruto/Kurama into submission, he would done so long ago.


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## Cheeky Nayrudo (Feb 7, 2014)

Jagger said:


> The last time we heard about the time limit was 8 minutes. When Naruto went with Sasuke to fight Juubito, neither of them had troubles to use their chakra forms. Naruto didn't even point out once that the time limit was being a problem to him, in fact, when Obito crushed them both (Naruto and Sasuke) against the ground, the Uzumaki easily activated the cloak once more.
> 
> In fact, the only reason he didn't use it before it's due the great amount of chakra Naruto has been using from his Bijuu.


Was the small fight with Obito longer than 8 minutes?​


> Madara reacted to a pretty basic and linear attack from Naruto, it's no surprise he can keep with it. However, multiple clones attacking him in a non linear-fashion way would be far more difficult.


[]

Madara himself can make clones to deal with them. And Naruto clones can't make anything more devastating than a mini TBB which was countered effortlessly.​


> Naruto can shoot his Bijuudama quite fast, actually. The 5 Bijuu started charging their Bijuudama a bit earlier before Naruto and yet, he was able to send his own Bijuudama to collide his enemy's. That implies a good speed when it comes to firing.


Madara can attack faster. 11 TBB infused with blades suggested that he can make his blades that fast, and his attacks are also as fast if not faster. This is faster than anything Naruto has shown so far. And his PS is too big for Naruto to do any damage.​


> Also, '_11 PS infused TBB several hundred gigantic arms only managed to strip off a part of PS layer'_? When did this happen, exactly? My memory is quite rusty sometimes...


Re-read the fight against Hashirama​


> Why would you believe the pain caused to Naruto would instantly turn off Naruto's chakra cloak? In fact, why would Madara's summoning process be faster than Naruto activating his cloak and rushing ahead to where Madara is? It's risky for the latter to take his eyes off from Naruto even for a second.


The pain was so extreme it dropped Naruto on his kness and unable to do anything but hold his stomach.

Naruto rushing to Madara? And do what? If you're talking about using the Kyuubi avatar that thing doesn't have Naruto's shunshin speed. IF you're talking about Naruto rushing to Madara without the Kyuubi avatar, it's suicidal as Madara only reacted to it before. Also, summoning doesn't take his eyes off Naruto, it's as simple as touching on hand on the ground and he can still keep his head up to look out for Naruto. Naruto rushing to him only shortens the distance between them and make this even more convenient for Madara.​


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