# Shounen/ Seinen Tier Division



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 28, 2008)

In the nar/op/ble wank/hatred thread a post caught my attention. That is, someone posted how they thought there were different 'tiers of shounen and seinen' in terms of the applicability of the term and emotional impacts or what have you. Keeping this in mind, I came up with this as a tier like system in order to classify manga's of said genre. Note, toss  SHoujo into the Shounen tier as well.

Shounen 
Tier 1- Shounen  of The Ages
Tier 2 - Shounen of Pristine Quality
Tier 3- What it Means to be Shounen 
Tier 4- Average 
Tier 5- Utter Garbage That Shames the genre

Seinen
Tier 1- I soiled myself because of the high quality
Tier 2- Pure Seinen
Tier 3- Solid Stuff
Tier 4- Average
Tier 5- Fodder


So what goes where ? 
Be as objective or subjective as ya like.


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## KLoWn (Jun 28, 2008)




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## Tayimus (Jun 28, 2008)

Hmm, I have to admit that I don't read a lot of manga in general to make a good list but I'll try . . .

Shounen 
Tier 1- Dragon Ball
Tier 2 - Claymore
Tier 3- Naruto 
Tier 4- D. Gray-Man
Tier 5- (N/A) Usually stop reading before it sucks too much

Seinen
Tier 1- Berserk
Tier 2- Gantz
Tier 3- Bitter Virgin
Tier 4- (N/A) Only read 3 Seinen
Tier 5- (N/A) Only read 3 Seinen

I almost feel embarassed for my lack of exposure.


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## atom (Jun 28, 2008)

Shounen
Tier 0 - JoJo's Bizarre Adventures, Akira
Tier 1 - Dragonball, One Piece, Trigun, 
Tier 2 - 666 Satan, D Gray-Man, Death Note
Tier 3 - Fairy Tail, Bleach 
Tier 4 - Naruto

Seinen
Tier 0 - 20th Century Boys
Tier 1 - Bastard!!, Monster
Tier 2 - Beserk, Hellsing
Tier 3 - Gantz, 3x3 Eyes
Tier 4 - Tenjho Tenge
Tier 5 - Boogiepop Phantom (DO NOT READ THIS ITS HORRIBLE)


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## Lord Genome (Jun 28, 2008)

atom said:


> Shounen
> Tier 0 - JoJo's Bizarre Adventures, Akira
> Tier 1 - Dragonball, One Piece, Monster, 20th Century Boys
> Tier 2 - 666 Satan, D Gray-Man, Death Note
> ...


Kinda funny since Monster and 20th Century boys are Seinen, and Trigun is a shounen.


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## atom (Jun 28, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> Kinda funny since Monster and 20th Century boys are Seinen, and Trigun is a shounen.


I knew I was mixing something up...


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## ~Shin~ (Jun 28, 2008)

I'll just name the popular ones that come to mind.

*Shounen:*

Tier 1: Great Teacher Onizuka, DragonBall, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Slam Dunk
Tier 2: One Piece, Death Note, FullMetal Alchemist
Tier 3: 666 Satan, D. Gray Man, Eyeshield 21, Love Hina
Tier 4: Samurai Deeper Kyo, Bleach
Tier 5: Naruto

*Seinen:*

Tier 1: Monster, Berserk, Shin Angyo Onshi, Vagabond
Tier 2: Akira, REAL!, Blade of the Immortal, 20th Century Boys
Tier 3: Gantz, Vinland Saga, Hotel, Planetes, Hellsing, Homonculus
Tier 4: Nothing particular comes to mind.
Tier 5: Nothing particular comes to mind since I've read too much shitty seinen.


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## Ippy (Jun 28, 2008)

Shin's on the right track, but I'll make my own slight changes, including the removal of manga I never read...





~Shin~ said:


> I'll just name the popular ones that come to mind.
> 
> *Shounen:*
> 
> ...


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 28, 2008)

Shounen:

Tier 1: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Hunter x Hunter, Hajime no Ippo, Dragonball
Tier 2: Claymore, Fullmetal Alchemist, Zombie Powder
Tier 3: Death Note, Yu Yu Hakusho, One Piece
Tier 4: 666 Satan, Bleach
Tier 5: Naruto, Rurouni Kenshin, Air Gear



Seinen

Tier 1: Berserk, Monster
Tier 2: Steel Ball Run, Bastard!!, 20th Century Boys
Tier 3: Hellsing, Basilisk, Vagabond
Tier 4: Tenjho Tenge
Tier 5: Gantz


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 29, 2008)

Seinin
Tier 1- Sanctuary, Berserk, Monster, Battle Angel Alita
Tier 2- Shin Angyo Enishi, 20th Century Boys, Akira, Homonculos, Bitter Virgin
Tier 3- Bokko, Blame, Blade of the immortal, Zetman, Vagabound, Elfen Lied, 
Tier 4- Gantz, Shamo, Tenjou Tenge, Pluto
Tier 5- Alive


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## The Mad Hatter (Jun 29, 2008)

There is a distinct lack of Gintama and hunter x Hunter in these lists


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jun 29, 2008)

The Mad Hatter said:


> There is a distinct lack of Gintama and hunter x Hunter in these lists



I mentioned Hunter x Hunter in miy list


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## Taleran (Jun 29, 2008)

Shounen
Tier 1- Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Kinnikuman, Hokuto No Ken, Dragonball
Tier 2 - One Piece, Hunter X Hunter, YYH
Tier 3- Flame of Recca
Tier 2- FMA


Seinen
Tier 1- AKIRA, Nausicaa, Sanctuary, Lone Wolf
Tier 2- Berserk, Bastard!!, 20th CB, Monster, Battle Angel Alita, Vagabond
Tier 3- Hellsing
Tier 4- ....
Tier 5- everything else (note this is massive generalization and only takes into account what I've given a chance)


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## Codde (Jun 29, 2008)

Lord Genome said:


> Kinda funny since Monster and 20th Century boys are Seinen, and Trigun is a shounen.


Trigun is a Seinen.

Shounen 
Tier 1- Slam Dunk, Dragonball, One Piece
Tier 2 - Detective Conan, Gintama
Tier 3- Gash Bell, Claymore
Tier 4- Naruto, Samurai Deeper Kyo 
Tier 5- Mahou Sensei Negami, Fairy Tail

Seinen
Tier 1- Vagabond,  Lone Wolf & Cub, Sanctuary
Tier 2- Berserk, Hellsing
Tier 3- Genshiken, Basilisk
Tier 4- Gantz, Oh My Goddess
Tier 5- Elfen Lied, Rozen Maiden


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## Red (Jun 30, 2008)

*Shounen *
Tier 1- Anybody who doesn't put DBZ here is tripping balls. TRIPPING BALLS. Astro boy (haven't read it heard it's good)
Tier 2 - High school of the dead, Claymore, Sayonara zetsubou sensei, Strawberry marshmallow.
Tier 3- Buso renken (haven't read it but hear it's good)
Tier 4- Rosario+Vampire 1 and season 2.
Tier 5- Tengen Toppa gurren lagann (should have stayed animated and epic) 

In before a billion naruto utter garbage shit.

*Seinen*
Tier 1- Blame!, Abara, Biomega, Akira
Tier 2- Hellsing , Kodomo no jikan, Gantz
Tier 3- Battle Angel Alita, Uzumaki, Sundome


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## Vandal Savage (Jun 30, 2008)

Shounen

Tier 1-Dragonball, Full Metal Alchemist
Tier 2-Hunter X Hunter, One Piece, Claymore, Death Note
Tier 3-Shaman King, Rurouni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakusho
Tier 4-Naruto, Kinikumann II (Ultimate Muscle), Fairy Tail, 666 Satan, Reborn!, D. Gray-man, Beet the Vandel Buster, Yu-Gi-Oh, Black Cat
Tier 5-Bleach, Kurohime,


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## Wuzzman (Jun 30, 2008)

Can I be a moderator and ban everyone who puts One Piece in the same category with HXH(6 year ban for putting One Piece higher then HXH)?


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## Jicksy (Jun 30, 2008)

Shounen 
Tier 1- dbz, slam dunk, GTO, Tales of Symphonia 
Tier 2 - OP, HxH, claymore, tenipuri, fist of north star, deathnote, get backers
Tier 3- fairy tail, yuyu hakusho, yugioh, kenshin, shaman king, airgear, kenichi, hitman reborn, bleach, kinukuman, naruto, kekkaishi, trigun
Tier 4- rave master, black cat, busou renkin, flame of recca

Seinen
Tier 1- berserk, gantz, shin angyo onshi
Tier 2- unbalance x unbalance, holy land, monster, hellsing
Tier 3- tenjou tenge, vagabond, initial d, xxxholic
Tier 4- sekirei


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## Doom85 (Jun 30, 2008)

Tier 1 - Fullmetal Alchemist
Tier 2 - Death Note, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter
Tier 3 - Naruto, Dragonball, Shaman King, 666 Satan, Yu Yu Hakusho, Rurouni Kenshin, Gintama
Tier 4 - Bleach, Fairy Tail
Tier 5 - Inuyasha


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 30, 2008)

Tier 1 - Berserk, Full Metal Alchemist, Hokuto No Ken
Tier 2 - One Piece, Hunter X Hunter
Tier 3 - YuYu Hakusho, Soul Eater, Death Note, Black Lagoon, Hellsing
Tier 4 - Bleach, Naruto
Tier 5 -


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## Basilikos (Jun 30, 2008)

These are my rankings according to how much I have read or watched of these respective series:

Shounen:

Tier 1: Yu Yu Hakusho (anime)
Tier 2: Naruto (part 1), IGPX, DBZ
Tier 3: Rurouni Kenshin, S-cry-ed (anime), Fairy Tail, JJBA
Tier 4: 666 Satan, Bleach, Death Note, TTGL (anime)
Tier 5: One Piece, Yugi-Oh, Pokemon (anime), Trigun

Seinen:

Tier 1: Rozen Maiden
Tier 2: 20th Century Boys
Tier 3: -
Tier 4: -
Tier 5: Ah! My Goddess


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jun 30, 2008)

Who the hell called gantz average


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## Zephos (Jun 30, 2008)

Xanxus said:


> Who the hell called gantz average



Gantz is an excuse for tits and blood on the wheels of a fun concept.
And not one thing more.

The author is a dick too.


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## Taleran (Jun 30, 2008)

Xanxus said:


> Who the hell called gantz average



anyone with a brain


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## ~Shin~ (Jun 30, 2008)

Gantz has been average ever since Kurono died.

It's a good read though. If only to look at the art.


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## Taleran (Jun 30, 2008)

that doesn't make something a good read, reading is words


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## ~Shin~ (Jun 30, 2008)

I think you know what I mean, Taleran.


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## Zephos (Jun 30, 2008)

~Shin~ said:


> I think you know what I mean, Taleran.



No, I am confused as well.


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## ~Shin~ (Jun 30, 2008)

I meant "read" in the same sense you "read" a picture book.

I guess it would just be better to say "look at the art and ignore the words"

Though it's not like Gantz has much words anyway.


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## Taleran (Jun 30, 2008)

but I don't read a picture book

no words

besides in a medium with words I'm not gonna bother with a series that looks good but the other half is shit


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## Zephos (Jun 30, 2008)

~Shin~ said:


> I meant "read" in the same sense you "read" a picture book.
> 
> I guess it would just be better to say "look at the art and ignore the words"
> 
> Though it's not like Gantz has much words anyway.



So your saying only half of Gantz is worthwhile?

A 50 is a F.


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## Red (Jun 30, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Because it's stupid I'm not going to split Seinen and Shonen.


It's not stupid at all. Why would you think that?


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## Zephos (Jun 30, 2008)

Red said:


> It's not stupid at all. Why would you think that?



Because we aren't comparing or discussing them by their target age.
Were talking about good we think they are, or how bad.

It's completely pointless, carrying a snotty undertone that one is inherently advantaged toward the other.


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## Supa Swag (Jun 30, 2008)

Xanxus said:


> Who the hell called gantz average



You're right. 

It's below average and if there weren't any tits it'd flat out fucking suck. The whole "anybody can die" thing was interesting, until Oku created the "Ressurection R Us" device. Add that with hardly any interesting characters besides Kurono and it's easy to see why this series is almost garbage and why Oku's previous works failed so fucking much.


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## AndrewGreen (Jun 30, 2008)

I fucking like Gantz

There are tons of flaws, but I'm not reading it expecting a literary masterpiece.

IMO, it deserves the ranking that Zephos gave it, but not the hate.


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## Wuzzman (Jul 1, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Because it's stupid I'm not going to split Seinen and Shonen.
> I'm also going to throw some american/british comics in there.
> 
> 
> Tier 3: *One Piece*, Akira, *Berserk*,* Hunter X Hunter*, V for Vendetta




*YOU HAVE NO TASTE*



Elijah Snow said:


> Shounen
> Tier 1- Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, *One Piece*, Slam Dunk
> Tier 2 - *Hunter X Hunter, Full Metal Alchemist*, GTO


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jul 1, 2008)

Genre, classifications, divisions, and what have you exist for a reason. You can complain about it all you want, but it doesn't change a thing, as even though the difference in is miniscule, it is still there. As per the terms.... though smashing them together is fine as well....


Shounen

Tier 1 -Nausicaa Valley of The Wind, Dragonball, Detective Conan
Tier 2- Sailor Moon, Slam Dunk, Hajime No Ippo, Death Note, Akira
Op, H X H, Saiyuki,
Tier 3- Gash Bell, Hitman Reborn, Fma, Yakitake Japan!, Pot, 
Tier 4- Mai-Hime, 666 Satan, Naruto, 
Tier 5- Samurai Deeper Kyo, Fairy Tail, Inuyasha, Bleach


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## Zephos (Jul 1, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> *YOU HAVE NO TASTE*



Whoa, clean up on aisle seven, someones spurging out on caps and smilies, get this man some ritalin stat!


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## Zephos (Jul 1, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Genre, classifications, divisions, and what have you exist for a reason. You can complain about it all you want, but it doesn't change a thing, as even though the difference in is miniscule, it is still there. As per the terms.... though smashing them together is fine as well....



In this case they exist because of levels of gore and sexuality.

Which is a stupid reason to divide them when not judging based off those things.


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## p-lou (Jul 1, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Genre, classifications, divisions, and what have you exist for a reason. You can complain about it all you want, but it doesn't change a thing, as even though the difference in is miniscule, it is still there. As per the terms.... though smashing them together is fine as well....



The only difference between shounen and sienen is target audience.  Target audience has nothing to do with the quality of a piece of work.  If the discussion is to just focus on the quality of a work, I see no reason for them to be separated.  Being intended for older people doesn't automatically give something an edge in quality.


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## Parallax (Jul 1, 2008)

Zephos has a point, maybe we should just have a tier for all series


Tier 1- Akira, Berserk, REAL, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Monster
Tier 2- One Piece, Slam Dunk, Vagabond, 20th Century Boys
Tier 3- Bastard!!, Zetman, Dragonball,  GTO
Tier 4- Hunter X Hunter, Full Metal Alchemist
Tier 5- Tenjou Tenge,  D.Gray Man
Tier 6- Gantz 
Tier 7- Claymore


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jul 1, 2008)

Like/Dislike or placement of either in a 'tier' demands seperation as there are distinctions in the forms of writing and imagery typically seen for shounen and seinen. We are judging the writing, but that writing falls within a developped avenue or area. The difference between shounen and seinen encompass an inherent diffrence in target audience, of which effects the written works levels of violence, deeper thematic concepts, realist sexuality, symbolism, and metaphors. I can't think of a good example in music, but the point is essentially classifyinh love poems as sonnets would be wrong, though many love poems are sonnets.


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## Taleran (Jul 1, 2008)

you could have said that in about half the words without needlessly using all the big ones


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jul 1, 2008)

Yeah, I know, I edited my post. I could probably just have posted the last sentene to be honest though....


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## MdB (Jul 1, 2008)

I fucking hate Gantz. Too much hype for a shitty series that doesn't even deserve a fraction of it.


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## C. Hook (Jul 1, 2008)

Wuzzman said:


> *YOU HAVE NO TASTE*



Erm... Okay? 


Anyway, here's my shounen list...

Tier 1: Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Full Metal Alchemist
Tier 2: One Piece, Soul Eater
Tier 3: Dragonball
Tier 4:Naruto
Tier 5: Bleach


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## armorknight (Jul 1, 2008)

Grouping together and comparing shounen and seinen is fine as long as they are in the same category. After all, you're judging them based on the same criteria. For example, comparing shounen-fighters and seinen fighters is perfectly fine. There are even a few shounen fighters that stand up to top-tier seinen fighters. However, comparing a shounen-mystery to a seinen-fighter makes no sense at all. There are some unique judging criteria for each.


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## Taleran (Jul 1, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Grouping together and comparing shounen and seinen is fine as long as they are in the same category. After all, you're judging them based on the same criteria. For example, comparing shounen-fighters and seinen fighters is perfectly fine. There are even a few shounen fighters that stand up to top-tier seinen fighters. However, comparing a shounen-mystery to a seinen-fighter makes no sense at all. There are some unique judging criteria for each.



please explain how you came to that conclusion


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## Zephos (Jul 1, 2008)

> Like/Dislike or placement of either in a 'tier' demands seperation as there are distinctions in the forms of writing and imagery typically seen for shounen and seinen.



No there's not.



> We are judging the writing, but that writing falls within a developped avenue or area.



A "developed avenue of area", wha?



> The difference between shounen and seinen encompass an inherent diffrence in target audience,



Panty shots or boobs.
Truly a hair splitting issue.



> of which effects the written works levels of violence, deeper thematic concepts, realist sexuality, symbolism, and metaphors.



None of which means anything regarding quality.



> I can't think of a good example in music, but the point is essentially classifyinh love poems as sonnets would be wrong, though many love poems are sonnets.



That dosen't work with this scenario at all.

Also


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## ~Shin~ (Jul 1, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Panty shots or boobs.
> Truly a hair splitting issue.



Yeah you do know that there are more shounen out there with superfluous fanservice than there are seinen right?  

"Panty shots or boobs" are hardly the only thing separating seinen and shounen. I could name a dozen seinen that don't use any of the things you say. 

Though I do agree on the topic that the quality of a particular manga shouldn't be decided by its intended audience. The quality of the storytelling is independent of the content being used.


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## Zephos (Jul 1, 2008)

> Yeah you do know that there are more shounen out there with superfluous fanservice than there are seinen right?



Oh rly?



> "Panty shots or boobs" are hardly the only thing separating seinen and shounen. I could name a dozen seinen that don't use any of the things you say.



I could name a dozen shonen.


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## ~Shin~ (Jul 1, 2008)

^Just stop before you embarrass yourself even further. 



Zephos said:


> Oh rly?



Most ecchi mangas are shounen. 

It's just a marketing tactic by having a lot of cocktease to make horny little teenagers buy the manga.


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## C. Hook (Jul 1, 2008)

As for the split, I see one, but it isn't too deep. I think we should just review manga as manga, no matter which audience it caters to. For example, look at the movie Ratatoullie. Despite the fact it's a G-rated flick, it is more mature than many R-rated movies.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jul 1, 2008)

Zephos said:


> No there's not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1) yes there is.

2)sentence clarifying= the genres are defined

3) You keep talking about quality of the manga, understandable, but how does splitting shounen and seinen effect ranking them in this thread ? It doesn't. The high quality stays high and the shit stays low for each tier list. 

4) there's a bigger difference then that. The manga Bitter Virgin,, compared to something like dragonball,op,shows this. 

5) like I said, I couldn't think of a more appropriate music example. I was trying to think of two extremly similar genre's of music, but slightly different. I dunno, maybe Chirsitan Rock and Rock and Roll is a better example.


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## Zephos (Jul 1, 2008)

> 1) yes there is.



Your acting like they're different mediums. This is hugely laughable.



> 2)sentence clarifying= the genres are defined enough the terms can be applied.



They aren't genres. Do you even know what a genre is.



> 3) You keep talking about quality of the manga, but how does splitting shounen and seinen effect ranking them ? It doesn't. The high quality stays high and the shit stays low for each tier list. What's your beef ?



By that logic there's no reason not to split them. Thus my beef.
That was a lousy move.



> 4) there's a bigger difference then that. The manga Bitter Virgin, Akira, Shin Angyo Enishi, etc, compared to something like dragonball,op, shows this.



Bitter Virgin could basically be shonen or seinen, it's the perfect example of something that doesn't even fit a standard age group. Really the only issue is the rape. 
It pales in content next to something like FonS or Jojo.
Which are still considered shonen.

Know why?

Because in their heyday violence standards were more lax.
Today they would be seinen.

Thats how stupidly superfluous the title "seinen" or "shonen" is.



> 5) ike I said, I couldn't think of a more appropriate music example. I was trying to think of two extremly similar genre's of music, but slightly different. I dunno, maybe Chirsitan Rock and Rock and Roll is a better example.



That's the exact problem. Were not talking genres.



~Shin~ said:


> ^Just stop before you embarrass yourself even further.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seinen phonebook magazines have swimsuit models throughout AND on the cover.
If not dirtier.


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## armorknight (Jul 1, 2008)

Moving on, there isn't nearly a big enough difference between shounen and seinen to warrant not comparing them. Think about it, all shounen and seinen indicate are a target age group. They're just labels that dont't really tell you anything about the series. For example, take two different series. Both of them have a similar plot, similar characters, and deal with similar themes. The difference is that one is shounen and one is seinen. Not comparing them just on the basis of that is entirely stupid.


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Jul 1, 2008)

Redux-shika boo said:


> We are judging the writing, but that writing falls within a developped avenue or area. The difference between shounen and seinen encompass an inherent diffrence in target audience, of which effects the written works levels of violence, deeper thematic concepts, realist sexuality, symbolism, and metaphors.



Quality of writing has little to do with the maturity of concepts or themes used in a story. If an author can use a child friendly theme like Friendship/bonds and develop a great story out of it while still being interesting and appealing to its target audience, its still good writing. Just because a story explores more adult themes doesn't automatically make it better than a story that focuses more on 'younger' themes. Quality of writing means how well the author uses the chosen themes to create the story, not what themes he chose to use. Thats what I think anyway.


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## Zephos (Jul 1, 2008)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> Quality of writing has little to do with the maturity of concepts or themes used in a story. If an author can use a child friendly theme like Friendship/bonds and develop a great story out of it while still being interesting and appealing to its target audience, its still good writing. Just because a story explores more adult themes doesn't automatically make it better than a story that focuses more on 'younger' themes. Quality of writing means how well the author uses the chosen themes to create the story, not what themes he chose to use. Thats what I think anyway.



I completely agree.

Symbolism, and other such literary techniques are not an immediate plus.
They are nothing more than tools. 
And tools can construct bad things, good things, and boring things.
We need to judge what's done not what's used.


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## Shuntensatsu (Jul 2, 2008)

Tier-1 DragonBall,One Piece, JJBA Part 3, Bastard!!,Death note
Tier-2 FMA,Kenshin,HxH
Tier-3 Getbackers
Tier-4 Dgrayman,Naruto,FT
Tier-5 Bleach,Inuyasha

Seinen

Tier-1 Vagabond,Hellsing,20th CB,Bastard!!
Tier-2 Monster,SAO
Tier-3 Berserk,Tenjou Tenge,Gantz
whatever...


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## ez (Jul 4, 2008)

Shounen
*Tier 1* -  JJBA, Dragonball, YYH, HnK, Saint Seiya, Death Note, Gintama, NHK ni Youkoso! 
*Tier 2* - Project ARMS, Claymore, Bleach (at its best), Kekkaishi, Hunter x Hunter, Sayonara zetsubou sensei, D.Gray-Man
*Tier 3* -   King of Hell, Devil Man, Grenadier, Houshin Engi
*Tier 4* -  Naruto, Ichigo 100%, Mirai Nikki, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle, XBlade

Seinen

*Tier 1* - Shin Angyo Onshi, Blade of the Immortal, Vinland Saga, Nijigahara Holograph, Dangu 
*Tier 2* -  Berserk, 20th Century Boys, Monster, Banya, Kurozuka
*Tier 3* -  Battle Angel Alita, Gantz, Eternal Sabbath, Uzumaki, Bastard!!,  	BioMega, Black God, Holyland, Threads of Time
*Tier 4* -  Witches, Alive!, Basilisk, Battle Royale

Some subjectivity is evident


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## Taleran (Jul 4, 2008)

you haven't read Akira or Nausicaa ezxx?


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## Randomguy117 (Jul 4, 2008)

Shounen

Tier 1 - Slam Dunk
Tier 2 - Bleach, Dr. Gray-man
Tier 3 - Ichigo 100%, Naruto

Seinen

Tier 1 - Berserk
Tier 2 - Black Lagoon

And that's about the extent of my manga knowledge so far, i'm afraid to say.


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## ez (Jul 4, 2008)

Taleran said:


> you haven't read Akira or Nausicaa ezxx?



hm, i don't think i ever finished Akira (it's up in tier 1/2), and for Nausicca i've only seen the film...planning on reading both soon, though.


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## Vicious (Jul 5, 2008)

Shounen
Tier 1- Ragnarok (manhwa)

Tier 2- NHK ni Yokoso, D. Gray-Man

Tier 3- Kamikaze, Katekyo Hitman Reborn, One Piece

Tier 4- Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle, Naruto, Bleach, Dragon Drive

Seinen
Tier 1- Berserk, Bastard!!

Tier 2- Battle Angel Alita, Hellsing, Rebirth

Tier 3- Tenjou Tenge, King of Thorns


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## ~Shin~ (Jul 5, 2008)

Welcome to the NHK is shounen? O_o


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jul 5, 2008)

~Shin~ said:


> Welcome to the NHK is shounen? O_o



Actually, it is.

X/1999 however, is not (it's a shoujo). 

TRC is debateable. Seriously, what kind of shounen besides Naruto (which has already lost all credibility, anyway) has yaoi in it?


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## armorknight (Jul 5, 2008)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Actually, it is.
> 
> X/1999 however, is not (it's a shoujo).
> 
> TRC is debateable. Seriously, what kind of shounen besides Naruto (which has already lost all credibility, anyway) has yaoi in it?



Naruto has hints of shounen-ai, but not straight up yaoi. But yeah, it has lost a ton of credibility since part II started. Also, I think all of CLAMP's major titles except xxxHolic (their best work go figure) are shoujo.


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## mystictrunks (Jul 5, 2008)

Shounen
Tier 1: Beck, Dragon Ball, Bastard!!, Akira
Tier 2: Kinnikuman, One Piece, 
Tier 3: Death Note, Naruto, JJBA
Tier 4:Bleach


Seinen
Tier 1: 20th CB
Tier 2: Berserk, SAO,Bastard!!
Tier 3:Monster, Gantz


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## Doom85 (Jul 5, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Naruto has hints of shounen-ai, but not straight up yaoi. But yeah, it has lost a ton of credibility since part II started. Also, I think all of CLAMP's major titles except xxxHolic (their best work go figure) are shoujo.



I'd say:

Tsubasa Pre-Tokyo Revelations: Shojo (with some shonen elements)
Tokyo Revelations and beyond: Shonen


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## Zephos (Jul 6, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Shounen
> Tier 1: Beck, Dragon Ball, *Bastard!!, Akira*
> Tier 2: Kinnikuman, One Piece,
> Tier 3: Death Note, Naruto, JJBA
> ...



Uh...............


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## mystictrunks (Jul 6, 2008)

Bastard!! was shounen for awhile, Akira was a mistake.


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## Penance (Oct 31, 2008)

armorknight said:


> Naruto has hints of shounen-ai, but not straight up yaoi. But yeah, it has lost a ton of credibility since part II started. Also, I think all of CLAMP's major titles except xxxHolic (their best work go figure) are shoujo.



Can't really argue with that...


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## MrCinos (Nov 2, 2008)

Shounen 
Tier 1- One Piece, Gintama, *Violinist of Hameln*, GTO, Hikaru no Go
Tier 2- Fullmetal Alchemist, Kekkaishi, Cromartie High School
Tier 3- History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, Angel Densetsu, Hajime no Ippo, Dragonball
Tier 4- Bleach, Fairy Tail, Claymore, Death Note
Tier 4.5- Naruto 
Tier 5- n/a

Seinen
Tier 1- Monster, 20th Century Boys, Pluto, Blood Alone, Hotman, Battle Angel Alita
Tier 2- *Bokko*, Eden, Homunculus, Shibatora, Team Medical Dragon, Zetman
Tier 3- Berserk, Vagabond, Vinland Saga
Tier 4- Blade of the Immortal
Tier 5- n/a


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## uchiha-alia (Nov 2, 2008)

I'll do a shonen list:
Tier 1: Slam Dunk, Dragonball, Hunter X Hunter
Tier 2: Full Metal Alchemist, Death Note, One Piece
Tier 3: Rurouni Kenshin, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Psyren(with possibility of moving up)
Tier 4: Katekyo Hitman Reborn! Naruto
Tier 5: Bleach


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## Fran (Nov 2, 2008)

Shounen 
Tier 1- Shounen of The Ages: HxH
Tier 2 - Shounen of Pristine Quality: Full Metal Alchemist, GTO
Tier 3- What it Means to be Shounen: Change Guy
Tier 4- Average: D-Gray Man
Tier 5- Utter Garbage That Shames the genre: 

Seinen
Tier 1- I soiled myself because of the high quality: SHIN ANGYO FUCKING ONSHI YOU FUCKING WHORES, READ IT . Monster's up here too.
Tier 2- Pure Seinen: Berserk
Tier 3- Solid Stuff: Gantz
Tier 4- Average: ...
Tier 5- Fodder


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## c3zz4rr (Nov 2, 2008)

uchiha-alia said:


> I'll do a shonen list:
> Tier 1: Slam Dunk, Dragonball, Hunter X Hunter
> Tier 2: Full Metal Alchemist, Death Note, One Piece
> Tier 3: Rurouni Kenshin, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Psyren(with possibility of moving up)
> ...



no shit so psyren is better than naruto???some of you are so ignorant and dont know how great naruto is....anyways

Tier 1. Dragonball
tier 2. One piece,huntexhunter,naruto,soul eater,yuyu hakusho
tier 3. Death note,jjba,claymore,D.Gray-Man,Samurai Deeper Kyo,fma,666 satan,
tier 4.reborn!,fairy tail,gintama,ID,bleach,bakuman,psyren,

Seinen:

Tier 1: Berserk,Gantz,Shin Angyo Onshi
Tier 2: vinland saga,vagabond,bastard,
Tier 3:Tenjou Tenge,basilisk,hellsing


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## uchiha-alia (Nov 2, 2008)

c3zz4rr said:


> no shit so psyren is better than naruto???some of you are so ignorant and dont know how great naruto is....anyways




 Psyren shows enough promise to merit its place, its a new series that can potentially be great. Naruto is far from a top shonen, it is good, not great. You really think Naruto is up there with One Piece and FMA?


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## chaosakita (Nov 2, 2008)

Shounen

Tier 1 - Fullmetal Alchemist (anime)
Tier 2 - Death Note, Dragonball Z, SHaman King
Tier 3 - Naruto
Tier 4 - Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho (anime)
Tier 5 - TTGL (anime)

I need to read more stuff.



> Naruto has hints of shounen-ai, but not straight up yaoi. But yeah, it has lost a ton of credibility since part II started. Also, I think all of CLAMP's major titles except xxxHolic (their best work go figure) are shoujo.



You know, the last time I thought there was a difference between shounen-ai and yaoi was when I was 11.


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## Stroev (Nov 2, 2008)

Tier 1: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, DragonBall
Tier 2: HxH, One Piece, YuYu Hakasho
Tier 3: Shaman King, Pokemon Specials/Adventure, FMA, Death Note
Tier 4: Bleach, Naruto
Tier 5: Fairy Tail

Will read 20th Century Boys


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## chaosakita (Nov 2, 2008)

Why does everyone here like YYH? It's an ok show, but what's that great about it?


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## Sigbin-Puti (Nov 2, 2008)

shounen

Tier 1 - dragon ball, GTO, slam dunk
Tier 2 - one piece, hunter x hunter, ippo, claymore
Tier 3 - death note, PoT, eyeshield21, fairy tail, mx0
Tier 4 - Bleach, naruto, ranma 1/2
Tier 5 - -na-

seinen

Tier 1- monster, 20th century boys, sanctuary, lone wolf and cub
Tier 2- berserk, SAO, vagabond, samurai executioner
Tier 3- Dangu, blame, hellsing, black god
Tier 4- gantz, homunculus
Tier 5- leviathan


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## Qwayze (Nov 2, 2008)

Shounen
1. Dragon Ball, Jojo
2. One Piece, Death Note
2&1/2: (shaping up good) Psyren
3. KHR, FMA, DGM
4. Bleach, Fairy Tail
5. 666Satan
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Over 9000!: Naruto


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## ~Greed~ (Mar 29, 2009)

Shounen
Tier 1- Alive-the final evolution , GTO , Flame of recca
Tier 2 - Mahou Sensei Negima, Psyren, Beezlebub, Zero
Tier 3- History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi
Tier 4- Bleach, Naruto, Air gear
Tier 5- HunterxHunter , One piece(That's right , I went there)



Seinen
Tier 1- Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer, Deadman Wonderland, Until Death Do Us Part
Tier 2- Gantz, Change 123, xxxholic 
Tier 3- Neon Genesis Evangelion, high school of the dead, Liar Game 
Tier 4- N/A
Tier 5- N/A


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## KuwabaraTheMan (Mar 29, 2009)

Shounen
Tier 1- Dragon Ball, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, Hajime no Ippo, Detective Conan
Tier 2 - Yu Yu Hakusho, Slam Dunk, Saint Seiya, The Prince of Tennis, Eyeshield 21, Ranma 1/2, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Tier 3- Naruto, Katekyo Hitman REBORN!, Inuyahsa, Hikaru no Go, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Fairy Tail, Death Note, D.Gray-man
Tier 4- Bleach, Rurouni Kenshin
Tier 5- Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, Buso Renkin, Black Cat, that shitty Blue Dragon manga by Obata


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## Wuzzman (Mar 29, 2009)

shounen 

tier 1. Fullmetal Alchemist, Claymore, HunterXHunter, Soul Eater
tier 2. Hajime no Ippo, Eyeshield 21, Psyren, Bio Meat Nector, El El, History Strongest Disciple Kenchi
tier 3. Naruto, Fairy Tale, Bleach, One Piece
tier 4.  Dgrayman, Hitman reborn, Veritas (if you want to include mawha)
tier 5. don't read this low

seinin

tier 1. Bersrk, 21-20 centuary boys, pluto, monster, historia, parastyle, zetman, vinland saga
tier 2. Akumesta
tier 3. gantz
tier 4. don't read this low


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## hgfdsahjkl (Mar 29, 2009)

shonen/action
tier 1-HxH-berserk

I know berserk is a seinin but it has the same formula as a shonen

(there is no shonen or seinin in my book 
probably I call it action with great story as HxH and berserk )


seinin
tier 1 -monster-20th cent


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## Wuzzman (Mar 29, 2009)

chaosakita said:


> Why does everyone here like YYH? It's an ok show, but what's that great about it?



YYH is a classic. Most of the initial success of Bleach was due to how it basically modeled itself after early YYH. It was one of those very, very, very few shounen that took the forumla and polished it to a fucking brilliant shine.


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## Pringer Lagann (Mar 30, 2009)

Tier 1- JJBA, Shaman King, Hokuto No Ken, NHK ni Yokosou
Tier 2- OP, FMA, SZS, Death Note, Kenshin, Air Gear, Claymore, Hayate No Gotoku,
Tier 3- D.Gray Man (Miranda keeps it from being Tier 4), Kurohime, Mai HiME
Tier 4- To LOVE ru, Bleach, Fairy Tail, Rosario Vampire (atm),
Tier 5 - Naruto, Inuyasha, 

Seinen
Tier 1 - Trigun, OMG!, JJBA (part 7), Berserk
Tier 2 - Tenjou Tenge, Detroit Metal City
Tier 3- Change 123, Bastard


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## El Torero (Mar 30, 2009)

Tier 1: Dragon Ball, One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note
Tier 2: Gintama, Naruto, HunterxHunter, Jojo´s Bizarre Adventure, Kenshin, Slam Dunk, Yu Yu Hakusho, Detective Conan, Hajime no Ippo, Asklepios (why did you last so little? )
Tier 3: Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Psyren, Eyeshield21, Prince of Tennis, Claymore, Buso Renkin, Black Cat, Kekkaishi, Rave Master, Zatch Bell, Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle, Samurai Deeper Ryo
Tier 4: Soul Eater, D-Grayman, Yu-gi-oh, 666 Satan, Saint Seiya, Shaman King, Bakuman, TO Love Ru
Tier 5: Bleach, Inuyasha, Fairy Tail, Bobobo


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## Chris Partlow (Mar 30, 2009)

if Naruto is so shit why the fuck does it make the most money in the manga world huh? you can say One Piece, but face it most people got into manga because of Naruto and i don't see why people flame it so much and go ahead neg me i don't care

1. One Piece, Naruto, Hunter X Hunter, Great Teacher Onizuka, Hajime No Ippo, Rurouni Kenshin, Full Metal Alchemist, Dragon Ball Z, Yu Yu Hakusho, Slam Dunk
2. D. Gray Man, Soul Eater, Death Note, Gintama, Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Air Gear Fairy Tail
3. Bleach, Prince of Tennis, Fist of the North Star, Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles
4. Inuyasha


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## Glued (Mar 30, 2009)

Nagato Uzumaki said:


> if Naruto is so shit why the fuck does it make the most money in the manga world huh? you can say One Piece, but face it most people got into manga because of Naruto and i don't see why people flame it so much and go ahead neg me i don't care
> 
> 1. One Piece, Naruto, Hunter X Hunter, Great Teacher Onizuka, Hajime No Ippo, Rurouni Kenshin, Full Metal Alchemist, Dragon Ball Z, Yu Yu Hakusho, Slam Dunk
> 2. D. Gray Man, Soul Eater, Death Note, Gintama, Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Air Gear Fairy Tail
> ...



Son, I like Naruto, but even I can't turn away from excessive plot holes nor the abomination of Uchiha Fight

1)Hajime no Ippo, Dragonball
2) One Piece, Hunter x Hunter
3) Naruto, Bleach, Claymore, Angel Dentetsu
4) Eyeshield 21, Inuyasha.


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## Wuzzman (Mar 30, 2009)

Naruto had literally one of the best arc(*s*) in shounen back to back. Great read, and I will always from time to time read Naruto part 1. In a vacuum, Naruto part 1 is a tier 2 manga. Not in a vacuum you probably read part 2 and realized that Kishi took what we loved and shoved it somewhere deep and dark. It just can't capture the magic of part 1 anymore and the only thing keeping me from considering Naruto a tier 4 manga is that part 1 does exist, it was epic, I would still reread and watch all the episodes from it, and it is pound for pound some well written stuff. Oh dgrayman at its best was only a slightly more interesting read than most of part 2 of Naruto. 

I can say the same with Bleach. Soul Society was kick to the ass. It was amazing and showed Kubo at its best, at that moment in time Kubo was god and everyone was else was trying to sell his cum on ebay. Unfortunately it went from great, to ok, to godawful so quickly that even the way too short pendulum arc/flashback couldn't ultimately redeem the manga. It fell from grace and though like naruto I'm not on a personal crusade to say it sucks every chance I get, I have to admit the series did take an almost unforgivable turn for the worse. 

I do find it funny that no matter how godawful bleach or naruto have become everyone who hates it still reads it, comes back to tell you how they hate it, and than read it again next week. Naruto and Bleach are the Heroes of the manga world, which is precisely why their in the big 3. Though unlike Naruto and Bleach I don't read them because if I don't read them I'm 2 series closer to not reading manga.


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## Jugger (Mar 30, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> .
> 
> I do find it funny that no matter how godawful bleach or naruto have become everyone who hates it still reads it, comes back to tell you how they hate it, and than read it again next week. Naruto and Bleach are the Heroes of the manga world, which is precisely why their in the big 3. Though unlike Naruto and Bleach I don't read them because if I don't read them I'm 2 series closer to not reading manga.



Maybe it is new way to act cool and now everybody is oda is god and so on i wonder how is next god


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