# Kaido, Marineford Whitebeard, Big Mom VS Akainu, Kizaru, Fujitora, Aokiji



## Danielguta007 (Mar 24, 2019)

*Akainu = Sakazuki 

Kizaru = Borsalino 

Fujitora = Issho 

Aokiji = Kuzan

Whitebeard = Edward Newgate

first fight = Kaido, Marineford Whitebeard, Big Mom VS Akainu, Kizaru, Fujitora, Aokiji

second fight = Kaido, Healthy Old Whitebeard, Big Mom VS Akainu, Kizaru, Fujitora, Aokiji







*


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## Exping (Mar 24, 2019)

admiral win first 

admiral win second

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Mar 24, 2019)

even tho kaido and wb are the two strongest here, 4 top tiers > 3 top tiers 

admirals also have better coordination


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 24, 2019)

Two Admirals hold off Whitebeard and Kaido, while the other two give Big Meme her next L. Admirals win both scenarios.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 24, 2019)

Kaido=2 admirals
fresh WB annihilates Akainu
BM eats the rest

in both scenarios


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 24, 2019)

WB with all injury almost 2 shot Akainu If he didn't fell off the clip he is done.

Yonko take this.


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## Dunno (Mar 24, 2019)

Fujitora handles Big Mom while the other three beat Kaido and Whitebeard without too much trouble. The Admirals take it comfortably.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Richard Lionheart (Mar 25, 2019)

Healthy Whitebeard quakes Akainu and Kaido clubs Fujitora.
Meme stalemates Aokiji.

Kizaru will only prolong the inevitable defeat of the admirals.


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## Geralt-Singh (Mar 25, 2019)

Admirals high diff both scenarios


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## CrownedEagle (Mar 25, 2019)

Scenario 1 : Yonko Hard difficulty 

Scenario 2 : Yonkou Mid Difficulty


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## Corax (Mar 25, 2019)

Admirals win as it is 4 vs 3. No matter how strong is Kaido he can't compensate for 2 top tiers. Also BM is a weak link here.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 25, 2019)

Akainu can tank a number of quakes 

and respond with meigous 


4> 3, admirals win high-diff


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 25, 2019)

Admirals


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## Beast (Mar 26, 2019)

Kizaru is probably enough to deal with  BM.
Aokiji and Fuji can take either WB or Kaidou together and Akainu can stall either Kaidou or WB in a 1V1.
Admirals low high diff.


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## Steven (Mar 26, 2019)

Admirals Upper-High Diff


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## tejas8055 (Mar 27, 2019)

Kaido alone solos mid diff.


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## CaptainCommander (Mar 27, 2019)

Yonko stomp hard


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## Furinji Saiga (Mar 27, 2019)

4> 3

Any one of the Admirals is fully capable of holding off any one of those Yonkos.
Admirals high difficulty. 



Daisuke Jigen said:


> Two Admirals hold off Whitebeard and Kaido, while the other two give Big Meme her next L. Admirals win both scenarios.




Pretty much this, this can be much quicker if they go for the weak link.

Reactions: Like 1


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## tejas8055 (Mar 27, 2019)

Big Mom creates a lava homie, a light homie and a frost homie and they battle indefinitely with Akainu, Kizaru and Aokiji. Homies cant be harmed and will suckn the Logia elements. BM wins against Fuji. 
BM solos.


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## ImpalerDragon (Mar 27, 2019)

Each Yonko is a good bit stronger than a admiral. 1 Yonko can easily take on 2 admirals while the other Yonko defeat their opponents with relative ease. I don't think that this is a fair match up. Make it Kaido and Whitebeard or Big Mom V.S these admirals. But even then the Yonko will win after a solid fight.


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## Nox (Mar 28, 2019)

*Round One;* 4 > 3. 
*Round Two;* 50/50. 

The Admirals best strategy is tag team the weakest Emperor. Whilst Kizaru and Saka focus on stalemating WSM and WSC. Emperors powers are disjointed & don't have good synergy. However, WB quake DC & MUM scream AoE are difference makers. It doesn't help Kaido and MUM seem to be damage soakers. Which means WB can go all out without consequences of serious friendly fire.


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## DarkRasengan (Mar 28, 2019)

Admirals haven't shown the damage output to hurt kaidou or big mom, I can see those 2 taking it by themselves


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## Fel1x (Mar 28, 2019)

why do you even use GODA as a negative rating?


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## Sapherosth (Mar 28, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Kizaru is probably enough to deal with  BM.
> Aokiji and Fuji can take either WB or Kaidou together and Akainu can stall either Kaidou or WB in a 1V1.
> Admirals low high diff.



Admirals can only stall Whitebeard for only a few minutes lmfao. 

They need at least 2 admirals to stall Whitebeard. If it's only 1 they get killed real fast.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Mar 29, 2019)

I think anyone who _actually _read Marineford arc should know that one admiral cannot stall Whitebeard for long. All of them moved in, did a bit of damage, and then GTFO'd real quick. They cannot keep up a prolonged battle against him, so instead they took potshots.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 29, 2019)

MF WB hasnt shown that he can even land a solid hit on Aokiji and Kizaru and he rushed Akainu from behind, while being more enraged than he has ever been before

an admiral can absolutely take on WB, and hurt him back too


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## Corax (Mar 29, 2019)

One admiral definitely can hold and wound WB,it is canon. Admiral can even mortally wound him twice. To make this more or less even team yonko needs Ray or Shanks.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Mar 29, 2019)

Nobody has said the admirals cannot wound WB. Clearly they did do that. I said they cannot keep up a prolonged battle with him. They did a bit of damage and then retreated, because they knew that all it takes is one slip-up for WB to do a lot more damage to them. Look at what happened to Akainu as soon as WB managed to connect.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Mar 29, 2019)

Team 2 wins.


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## Luke (Mar 29, 2019)

Admirals win. No one in the series is defeating two Admirals at once. One could just hang back and deal grievous blows to the Yonkou while they're each engaged.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 31, 2019)

If Admirals would have won this fight, there would be no Yonkos left, given the fact how useless subordinates are against top tiers. Akainu would just send Fujitora and Kizaru with a thousand fodders and 5 vice-admirals to decimate the yonko crews one by one.
Yonkos win high diff after a solid fight.


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## Lord Melkor (Mar 31, 2019)

I think it can go either way with healthy WB whom i can see fighting two Admirals at once.


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## El Hit (Mar 31, 2019)

It is funny how people overate Old Whitebeard because of his fight with Akainu, when half his head was removed and he could not do shit against blackbeard Pirates fucking shooting at him while Akainu was soloing the Wb Pirates and croco moments later.
Inb4 "but squardo" 
Two admirals kill the old man while the other stall, then they kill the rest.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mob (Mar 31, 2019)

Akainu and Ishoo easily take care of WB in both scenarios while Kuzan and Kizaru defeat Kaido and Big Mom


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2019)

The Admirals obviously win. 4 Admirals will always defeat 3 Yonko, just like 4 Yonko will always defeat 3 Admirals. Whichever side has less people will _always_ lose when it comes to Admirals vs Yonko.

Let's look at Marineford closely, where we saw a Yonko clash with 3 different Admirals:

*Marineford Whitebeard vs Aokiji*

- Aokiji freezes Whitebeard.

- Whitebeard breaks free easily.

- Whitebeard tries impaling Aokiji and fails miserably.

- Aokiji is about to counter attack but Whitebeard is rescued by Jozu.

I thought yall said a Yonko is defeating an Admiral easily, what's going on here? 


*Marineford Whitebeard vs Kizaru*

- Whitebeard tries slashing at Kizaru and fails miserably.

- Kizaru pins down Whitebeard's bisento with his leg and shoot him with a laser.

I thought yall said a Yonko is defeating an Admiral easily, what's going on here? 


*Marineford Whitebeard vs Akainu Round 1
*
- Whitebeard tries swinging his bisento and Akainu stops it with his leg

- Akainu tried attacking Whitebeard twice and Whitebeard stops both attacks, they are effectively in a stalemate until Whitebeard gets a heart attack.

I thought yall said a Yonko is defeating an Admiral easily, what's going on here? 


*Marineford Whitebeard vs Akainu Round 2*

- Whitebeard hits Akainu with a sneak attack (something all the Yonko supporters in this thread didn't include in their posts when discussing Akainu vs Marineford Whitebeard, gee I wonder why?  )

- Akainu destroys half of Whitebeard's head

- Whitebeard hits Akainu with an island splitting bunch


Now that we have an accurate summary of Marineford Whitebeard vs the Admirals, let's clear up some misconceptions presented in this thread by several members:


*"Whitebeard can destroy Akainu easily zomg!!!111!! "*


No.

As we saw in Whitebeard vs Kizaru, Aokiji, and Akainu Round 1, Whitebeard was not able to injure any of the Admirals...at all. And instead was the one who was getting injured himself. Only in Whitebeard vs Akainu Round 2 did he manage to finally injure an Admiral. What Yonko fans leave out is that Whitebeard was bloodlusted after Ace died, had to sneak attack Akainu, and lost half of his face in the process. I don't see anything about Marineford Whitebeard being bloodlusted in the opening post. Whitebeard will also not be able to launch a sneak attack on any of the Admirals because the Admirals outnumber the Yonkou in this scenario. In other words, the best Marineford Whitebeard can do in this thread is stalemate one of the Admirals...until he gets a heart attack and they take advantage of that.


*"Omggg Kaido equals two Admirals!!!1111!! "*

Sorry to disappoint you fel1x and whoever else believes this, but you have _nothing_ to support this ridiculous claim. And no, Kaido one shotting a first mate level opponent does not mean he is equal to 2 Admirals.


*"Admirals haven't shown the damage output to hurt kaidou or big mom, I can see those 2 taking it by themselves "

*
Listen DarkRasengan, the Admirals have some of the most impressive damage output feats in the entire manga. And we have seen Admirals wound a Yonko and an Admiral. Can you tell me when we've seen Kaido and Big Mom tank a blow from an Admiral/Yonko? Because until you can, then you really don't have an argument. Kaido and Big Mom tanking blows from a first mate level opponent is NOT impressive. When you have a panel of them blocking an Admiral/Yonkou's attack, then let me know. Until then, stop hyping up their defensive abilities based on nothing. The Admirals offensive abilities will always get the benefit of the doubt because we've actually seen it injure multiple top tiers.


*"If Admirals would have won this fight, there would be no Yonkos left, given the fact how useless subordinates are against top tiers. Akainu would just send Fujitora and Kizaru with a thousand fodders and 5 vice-admirals to decimate the yonko crews one by one. Yonkos win high diff after a solid fight. "*

What kind of ridiculous argument is this, Duhul10? The Marines have to worry about 4 Yonko, Revolutionaries, guarding Marineford/Marejois along with other tasks. You even say "one by one" like you expect everyone else to just stand  byidle and do nothing while they attack one Yonkou, this isn't a video game, if they attack one Yonkou's base with multiple Admirals, then other people will take advantage of that moment. What you suggested is logistically impossible and therefore can't be used to devalue the Admirals, find a better argument.

Here's what's actually going to happen. Akainu and Whitebeard will stalemate each other like they did in Round 1. Aokiji will fight Kaidou. Fujitora will fight Big Mom, and as we saw when she was tumbling down the tower in WCI and down the waterfall in Wano, gravity is not kind to her. While Akainu and Whitebeard are stalemating each other, Kizaru will go behind Whitebeard and shoot him with lasers. Sooner or later, Whitebeard is going to get a heart attack and Kizaru and Akainu will dispose of him. Then Kizaru and Akainu help Aokjii kill Kaido, then all 4 Admirals kill Big Mom. 

4 Admirals will never lose to 3 Yonko. 4 Yonko will never lose to 3 Admirals. Stop being delusional fanboys for once in your life.

Reactions: Like 4


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## tejas8055 (Mar 31, 2019)

Kaido stomps. No admiral could oneshot an undistracted YC. Kaido did. WB 2 shot Akainu. Big Mom is Logia's Kryptonite. It is a mid diff for Yonko.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> Kaido stomps. No admiral could oneshot an undistracted YC. Kaido did. WB 2 shot Akainu. Big Mom is Logia's Kryptonite. It is a mid diff for Yonko.



Who's stronger, the injured Whitebeard who fought Akainu or Luffy?


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## tejas8055 (Mar 31, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Who's stronger, the injured Whitebeard who fought Akainu or Luffy?


WB was far from oneshot. He was still kicking BB's ass after that. It's Akainu who was 2 shot. Had he not fallen into the rubble, one more punch would have killed Akainu.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> WB was far from oneshot. He was still kicking BB's ass after that. It's Akainu who was 2 shot. Had he not fallen into the rubble, one more punch would have killed Akainu.



Where did I say Whitebeard was one shot? Stop deflecting and answer a very simple question.

Who is stronger, the Whitebeard who fought Akainu or the Luffy who fought Kaido?


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## tejas8055 (Mar 31, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Where did I say Whitebeard was one shot? Stop deflecting and answer a very simple question.
> 
> Who is stronger, the Whitebeard who fought Akainu or the Luffy who fought Kaido?


Of course WB. But his Haki is lower than Luffy's due to poor health.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> Of course WB. But his Haki is lower than Luffy's due to poor health.



Do you think Akainu can oneshot Luffy with Meigou?


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 31, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> WB was far from oneshot. He was still kicking BB's ass after that. It's Akainu who was 2 shot. Had he not fallen into the rubble, one more punch would have killed Akainu.


 If Akainu was the one that got the cheapshot, WB would be dead


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## tejas8055 (Mar 31, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> If Akainu was the one that got the cheapshot, WB would be dead


Akainu already got a cheapshot while WB had a heart attack. WB tanked it like a boss. Same could not be said for Akainu though.


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## CaptainCommander (Mar 31, 2019)

Lol you can't "cheap shot" from behind unless you also think the guy getting jumped has shit OH.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Lol you can't "cheap shot" from behind unless you also think the guy getting jumped has shit OH.



Then please explain to the rest of the class why Whitebeard wasn't able to land a hit on any of the Admirals before that point.


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## tejas8055 (Mar 31, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Then please explain to the rest of the class why Whitebeard wasn't able to land a hit on any of the Admirals before that point.


Ill health affects Haki.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> Ill health affects Haki.



So why won't the same thing happen in this thread also, atleast when we're discussing Marineford Whitebeard.

So it's basically 4 Admirals versus 3 Yonkou and one Yonkou has ill health that affects his haki as you admitted, so how can they win?


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## tejas8055 (Mar 31, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> So why won't the same thing happen in this thread also, atleast when we're discussing Marineford Whitebeard.
> 
> So it's basically 4 Admirals versus 3 Yonkou and one Yonkou has ill health that affects his haki as you admitted, so how can they win?


Because Big Mom alone can counter Logias by creating their respective elemental homies. Kaido is more than capable of handling 2 Admirals and even a dying WB can 2 shot an admiral.


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## Law (Mar 31, 2019)

Admirals win both scenarios. This wouldn't too different from 3 Zoro's vs 4 Law's (or vice versa). All close enough that 2v1 would end much quicker than the other fights, then the outcome would be even more obvious when it's 4v2.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 31, 2019)

Daily reminder that even a Fodder marine manage to hurt WB. sure you can hurt WB but none of the Admirals put him down in MF arc we need a full barrage of attack from the BB pirates and we saw that WB is capable of putting the admiral down in two shot. we can speculate that if the third one hit Akainu he is done for good.

Now that we have WB Vs Admirals thanks to Ava. Let's also go back the YC Vs Admirals.

- Kizaru attack WB got cockblack by Marco.

- Marco attacked Kizaru, Kizaru defend got push back and call a reinforcement.

- Aokiji attacked WB got cockblock by Jozu and he make Admiral bleed.

- Akainu attack also got block by Marco.

and we all know Yonko captain is so far from their commanders as a statement by BM pirates during BM rampage in WCI arc.


How can you guys say Admirals won when they cannot put down old WB in MF arc they're three and WB is alone now reverse that situation and we don't have a war instead a massacre, in this match up we have Kaido a monster who cannot die(Yonko and Marine captured him but cannot kill him), who can blitz a FM level fighter with future sight, have an attack that can one shot a FM level fighter that have resistance against blunt force.

and we have BM who can turn your logia power against you and cannot be hurt unless you have Brooks DF power with a very durable body.



xmysticgohanx said:


> If Akainu was the one that got the cheapshot, WB would be dead


Do you have an amnesia dude?


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## Corax (Apr 1, 2019)

Actually old WB by feats is the strongest yonko. Double tsunami,MF tilt,partial split of MF,destruction of frozen tsunami,Sengoku statement. BM has that?Humiliation by King,Brook, Jimbei and Nami. Kaido at least defeated G4 Luffy,but WB can beat him in his sleep like he defeated Ace. Defeating FM by top tier standards isn't impressive.


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 1, 2019)

Corax said:


> Actually old WB by feats is the strongest yonko.


but not durability feats which the other two's strongest arsenal.


Corax said:


> Defeating FM by top tier standards isn't impressive.


and the top tier Admirals couldn't even beat them the way the Yonko did(Kaido) and by statement of other(BMP thinks they cannot beat BM).


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## NooksBrigade (Apr 1, 2019)

@*  *

Since this is clearly bias I will try and pitch in the other viewpoint (also bias).

*Marineford Old, Sick, and Wounded Whitebeard (Age= 72) vs Prime Aokiji (Age= 47)*

- Aokiji freezes Whitebeard.

- Whitebeard breaks free easily.

- Whitebeard tries impaling Aokiji and fails miserably.
(Aokiji is hit by a simple unnamed WB attack - Aokiji is forced to CoO dodge)

- Aokiji is about to counter attack but Whitebeard is rescued by Jozu.
(WB is known to take all hits head-on and never turn his back - Aokiji is caught off guard by a YC3 and bleeds)
(Kaido is caught off-guard by G4 Luffy while drunk and proceeds to K.O a ~YC1 level opponent - also no bleeding)

I thought yall said a Yonko is defeating an Admiral easily, what's going on here? 
(I thought all Admirals were closer to the Yonko than to the Yonko's top 3?)

*Marineford Whitebeard (Age= 72) vs Kizaru (Age= 56)*

- Whitebeard tries slashing at Kizaru and fails miserably.
(Simple unnamed slash - like Luffy using a simple gum-gum pistol and failing to hit an Admiral - no biggie)

- A Prime Kizaru pins down an Old, Sick, and Wounded Whitebeard's bisento with his leg and shoot him with a laser.
(WB never flees as explained by Sengoku - Whitebeard tanks Kizaru's attack and proceeds to beat Akainu and Blackbeard)

I thought yall said a Yonko is defeating an Admiral easily, what's going on here? 
(We have clear evidence here of an old, wounded, and sick Whitebeard no-selling Kizaru's attack)
(I tought Admirals were supposed to equal the Yonko? How is an old Yonko no-selling an Admiral's attack?)

*Marineford Whitebeard (Age= 72) vs Akainu (Age= 53) Round 1*

- Whitebeard tries swinging his bisento and Akainu stops it with his leg
(Akainu stops a no-named attack. Weaker than even the slash used against Shanks since no CoC nor CoA was used) 

- Akainu tried attacking Whitebeard twice and Whitebeard stops both attacks, they are effectively in a stalemate until Whitebeard gets a heart attack.
(Wow the old and sick Yonko who was matching the strongest Admiral, in their Prime no less, can only be hit by said Admiral after WB gets a heart attack? And people are still saying Admirals=Yonko??? What? How? and Really...?)

I thought yall said a Yonko is defeating an Admiral easily, what's going on here? 
[I don't know about the everyone else, but when an old, sick, and wounded lion (WB) is still capable of matching a healthy prime hyena (Akainu) - than i'm pretty sure the healthy Lion (WB) would mop the floor with any hyena (Admirals)]

*Marineford Whitebeard (Age= 72) vs Akainu (Age= 53) Round 2*

- Whitebeard hits Akainu with a sneak attack (something all the Yonko supporters in this thread didn't include in their posts when discussing Akainu vs Marineford Whitebeard, gee I wonder why? )
[Hmm, I wonder how getting stabbed through the heart affects a person's ability to fight... I'm pretty sure it had no effect at all (Sarcasm)] [How about having your intestines melted by lava due to an opening the enemy took while you were having a heart attack - due partially to the heart stab???] Oh but don't worry Akainu got blindsided by an unnamed quake-fist...       

- Akainu destroys half of Whitebeard's head
[Whitebeard survives said hit and proceeds to beat Akainu with a total of 5 unnamed hits/attacks (including clashes)] Imagine Fujitora loosing an arm to Big Mom but still be capable of beating Big Mom using 5 unnamed attacks... Yeah not happening!


- Whitebeard hits Akainu with an  unnamed island splitting bunch
[Roger dealt with prime WB's named attacks that were capable of destroying the entire world; Akainu only got a taste of that power and succumbed to the injuries]

Now that (I have stated a completely bias viewpoint of MarineFord) we have an accurate (bias) summary of Marineford Whitebeard vs the Admirals, let's clear up some misconceptions presented in this thread by several members:


*"Whitebeard can destroy Akainu easily zomg!!!111!! "*

No. Yes.

A healthy and uninjured WhiteBeard is without a doubt beating Akainu. Said Whitebeard would never have a heart stab. He would never get the heart attack that led to his intestines getting burned. Meaning, that Akainu would be fighting a much stronger Whitebeard. Remember Shanks a prime Yonko halting AKainu's attack while Akainu was visibly scared? Akainu has no problem facing against a weakened Yonko but when a healthy Yonko wants to fight a weakened Akainu; Akainu's life flashes before his eyes!!!! 


*"Omggg Kaido equals two Admirals!!!1111!! "*

Agree, we have nothing so far that states that a single Yonko is beating two Admirals. Unless we get a retcon two Admirals should be capable of beating any of the current Yonko if it's 2v1. But it won't be that easy...

*"Admirals haven't shown the damage output to hurt kaidou or big mom, I can see those 2 taking it by themselves "*

Again, I agree. It makes no sense if the Navy's top ranks have no way to hurt the Yonko. In fact Kaido has a scar that clearly indicates that he can be hurt.

*"If Admirals would have won this fight, there would be no Yonkos left, given the fact how useless subordinates are against top tiers. Akainu would just send Fujitora and Kizaru with a thousand fodders and 5 vice-admirals to decimate the yonko crews one by one. Yonkos win high diff after a solid fight. "*

Agree, militarily wise, no country is going to concentrate their entire forces into a single battlefield. Especially when so many enemies are waiting for the chance to attack. The status quo benefits everyone which is why the Yonko and the Marines have made no move. Unless, one fraction gets a significant power boost, like an ancient weapon, the Yonko won't attack the Marines and the Marines won't go after the Yonko.

4 Admirals will never lose to 3 Yonko. 4 Yonko will never lose to 3 Admirals. Stop being delusional fanboys for once in your life

I can sort of agree with this. At least one of the Yonko will be forced into a 2V1 (likely Big Mom since the Marines are strategists). However, any Admiral that faces against Shanks and Kaido is loosing within the hour. Meaning Big Mom and two Admirals will be down within the first hour. Shanks and Kaido are wounded but they have to face one Admiral each, and we already saw that even a wounded and sick Yonko is capable of besting an Admiral.

So at the end of the day 3 Yonko are capable of beating 4 Admirals, but 3 Admirals will never be able to beat 4 Yonko (Since that would mean an Admiral is getting tag teamed by two Yonko - and that is not ending well for any Admiral...)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 1, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> The Admirals obviously win. 4 Admirals will always defeat 3 Yonko, just like 4 Yonko will always defeat 3 Admirals. Whichever side has less people will _always_ lose when it comes to Admirals vs Yonko.
> 
> Let's look at Marineford closely, where we saw a Yonko clash with 3 different Admirals:
> 
> ...


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 1, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Then please explain to the rest of the class why Whitebeard wasn't able to land a hit on any of the Admirals before that point.


He would have 3 panelled Aokiji if his future sight was working. Pity Oda had to put him on his deathbed though


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## Bernkastel (Apr 1, 2019)

4 > 3 ..the admirals win.


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## Corax (Apr 1, 2019)

Don King said:


> but not durability feats which the other two's strongest arsenal.
> 
> and the top tier Admirals couldn't even beat them the way the Yonko did(Kaido) and by statement of other(BMP thinks they cannot beat BM).


That FM was Marco who has the strongest regeneration fruit. Kaido can beat Marco,but not one shot him. Even PK rival Garp couldn't one shot him.


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## trance (Apr 1, 2019)

holy shit blue text trips me out man


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## A Optimistic (Apr 1, 2019)

Don King said:


> Daily reminder that even a Fodder marine manage to hurt WB.



I thought you were supposed to be defending the Yonko? 



> sure you can hurt WB but none of the Admirals put him down in MF arc we need a full barrage of attack from the BB pirates and we saw that WB is capable of putting the admiral down in two shot. we can speculate that if the third one hit Akainu he is done for good.



Yes, none of the 3 Admirals who engaged Marineford Whitebeard in a one on one fight were able to put Marineford Whitebeard down. Thats why I specifically had two Admirals fighting Marineford Whitebeard in my scenario.

I'll just be blunt, do you think Marineford Whitebeard can beat Kizaru and Akainu at the exact same time? Yes or no? 



> Now that we have WB Vs Admirals thanks to Ava. Let's also go back the YC Vs Admirals.



Sure we can talk about the YC. As long as it's YC vs Admirals/Yonko.



> - Kizaru attack WB got cockblack by Marco.



Marco has a fruit designed to heal him from injuries for a certain amount of time.



> - Marco attacked Kizaru, Kizaru defend got push back and call a reinforcement.



Yes, Marco kicked Kizaru while he was in midair. Reminds me of King kicking the Big Mom's ship down a waterfall.



> - Aokiji attacked WB got cockblock by Jozu and he make Admiral bleed.



Aokiji successfully dodging Whitebeard's attack, preparing a counter attack, and Whitebeard needed to be recused by Jozu is a point against Aokiji? I thought that would be a point in Aokiji's favour.



> - Akainu attack also got block by Marco.



Marco has a fruit designed to heal him from injuries for a certain amount of time.



> and we all know Yonko captain is so far from their commanders as a statement by BM pirates during BM rampage in WCI arc.



I don't like what you're doing here. You're using Smoothie's statement about how none of the Sweet Commanders can stop Big Mom and are somehow attempting to make that statement apply to Marco as well. Smoothie's comment wasn't about Marco. And none of the Sweet Commanders have a fruit that's designed to heal injuries for a certain amount of time, so I don't feel like that's an accurate comparison. 

I also feel like you forgot to include multiple YC vs Admiral examples in your post, so let me fill in the blanks.

- Akainu punching a hole through Ace

- Akainu punching a hole through Cruiel.

- Marco's kicks failing to do any damage to Kizaru and Aokiji

- Jozu only managing to make Aokiji bleed while Aokiji was focused on Whitebeard, why didn't Jozu ever manage to injure Aokiji again?

- And last but not least, Marco _and _Vista failing to injure Akainu together, which kind of destroys your entire YC being near the Admirals argument. How can YC be near Admirals when two of them together failed to damage Akainu?





> How can you guys say Admirals won when they cannot put down old WB in MF arc they're three and WB is alone



Did the Admirals all fight Marineford Whitebeard at the same time or something? I don't understand what you mean here. Who said they won? All I'm saying is that Akainu and Kizaru will defeat Marineford Whitebeard together. What has Marineford Whitebeard shown that indicates he can take two Admirals at the exact same time?




> now reverse that situation and we don't have a war instead a massacre, in this match up we have Kaido a monster who cannot die(Yonko and Marine captured him but cannot kill him), who can blitz a FM level fighter with future sight, have an attack that can one shot a FM level fighter that have resistance against blunt force.



Why is Kaido not being able to die relevant to this thread? Someone doesn't need to die in order to lose a fight, they just need to be defeated. And Kaidou has been defeated 7 times, and he's been captured 18 times. As for Kaido one shotting Luffy, I can't say I find that particularly impressive. I consider Yonko Commanders to be much weaker than Admirals/Yonko.

I do have a question for you, do you think if Akainu can one shot Luffy with Meigo? Or do you think Luffy is somehow able to tank or dodge that attack? Keep in mind that's the attack that took of half of Whitebeard's attack and it's probably the attack that took off Aokiji's leg.



> and we have BM who can turn your logia power against you and cannot be hurt unless you have Brooks DF power with a very durable body.



I wasn't aware that Big Mom was that impressive, I must have missed all her amazing feats on Whole Cake Island. Also what do you mean Big Mom can't be hurt? What are you basing this claim on? Because people much weaker than her failed to hurt her on Whole Cake Island?




Anyways, can you elaborate how Marineford Whitebeard is defeating Akainu and Kizaru at the same time when Marineford Whitebeard is old, sick, has heart attacks randomly in the middle of fights, and his haki doesn't work most of the time?

I personally don't see how Marineford Whitebeard wins that fight, and once he's down, that means it's Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji vs Kaido. And then once Kaido is down, that means it's all four Admirals versus Big Mom.


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## TheWiggian (Apr 1, 2019)

4 top tiers vs 3 

the winning team is obvious. admirals take it rather easy as the can have 1 admiral ganging up on either yonkou.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 1, 2019)

NooksBrigade said:


> @*  *
> 
> Since this is clearly bias I will try and pitch in the other viewpoint (also bias).



I don't think we've met before, pleasure to meet you.



> *Marineford Old, Sick, and Wounded Whitebeard (Age= 72) vs Prime Aokiji (Age= 47)*



Why are you putting an emphasize on Whitebeard being old and sick exactly? Scenario One states that Whitebeard is old and sick.



> - Whitebeard tries impaling Aokiji and fails miserably.
> (Aokiji is hit by a simple unnamed WB attack - Aokiji is forced to CoO dodge)



I notice you are trying to downplay the situation by stating that Whitebeard used an unnamed attack, but all of Whitebeard's attacks are unnamed. 



> (WB is known to take all hits head-on and never turn his back - Aokiji is caught off guard by a YC3 and bleeds)
> (Kaido is caught off-guard by G4 Luffy while drunk and proceeds to K.O a ~YC1 level opponent - also no bleeding)



Kaido was actually caught off guard by G3 Luffy, not G4 Luffy. Also I already think Kaido has better durability than Aokiji.



> (I thought all Admirals were closer to the Yonko than to the Yonko's top 3?)



They are. I consider Yonko commanders to be much weaker than both the Admirals and the Yonko.



> (Simple unnamed slash - like Luffy using a simple gum-gum pistol and failing to hit an Admiral - no biggie)



All of Whitebeard's attacks are unnamed so I'm not sure how you can claim it's a simple slash. The slash failed not because it was "simple" like you claim, but because Whitebeard's haki was ineffective due to his sickness. And in Scenario 1 of this thread (the scenario I was replying to, which is why I made sure to state Marineford Whitebeard often), Whitebeard will have his sickness hindering his health and haki.



> - A Prime Kizaru pins down an Old, Sick, and Wounded Whitebeard's bisento with his leg and shoot him with a laser.
> (WB never flees as explained by Sengoku - Whitebeard tanks Kizaru's attack and proceeds to beat Akainu and Blackbeard)



Old and Sick Whitebeard still choosing to get hit by every attack like you seem to claim only supports my argument that Akainu and Kizaru will destroy him if they gang up on him.



> (We have clear evidence here of an old, wounded, and sick Whitebeard no-selling Kizaru's attack)
> (I tought Admirals were supposed to equal the Yonko? How is an old Yonko no-selling an Admiral's attack?)



Kizaru pins down Whitebeard's bisento with his leg, doesn't get hurt by Whitebeard's slash, and shoots Whitebeard with a laser...and somehow you interpreted that scene as Whitebeard being the more impressive fighter? 



> (Akainu stops a no-named attack. Weaker than even the slash used against Shanks since no CoC nor CoA was used)



Once again, all of Whitebeard's attacks are not named. So you can't use that to determine the strength of his attacks. The Whitebeard that fought Shanks is not the same Whitebeard that fought at Marineford, one has medical equipment keeping his sickness and illness at bay, meaning he can use his haki to his fullest abilities. And one is sick without medical equipment and struggles to use his haki. And unfortunately for you, the one the OP decided to include in scenario 1 is the sick Whitebeard that struggles to use his haki. Marineford Whitebeard is not gonna be able to repeat the feat he displayed against Shanks in this fight.



> (Wow the old and sick Yonko who was matching the strongest Admiral, in their Prime no less, can only be hit by said Admiral after WB gets a heart attack?



That's correct.

Hence why it's Akainu and Kizaru vs Marineford Whitebeard in my scenario.



> [I don't know about the everyone else, but when an old, sick, and wounded lion (WB) is still capable of matching a healthy prime hyena (Akainu) - than i'm pretty sure the healthy Lion (WB) would mop the floor with any hyena (Admirals)]



I don't think I ever once disputed a healthy Whitebeard's strength in my post, I made a lot of effort to state I was referring to Marineford Whitebeard, aka sick, heart attack prone, and barely working haki Whitebeard.

Healthy Whitebeard was clearly stated by Oda to be the strongest man in the world, no one denies this. He's beating any of the Admirals and any of the Yonko in a one on one fight in my opinion. I've never downplayed a healthy Whitebeard's strength in my life. But healthy Whitebeard is not Marineford Whitebeard. Once he removes his medical equipment, he's a completely different person.



> [Hmm, I wonder how getting stabbed through the heart affects a person's ability to fight... I'm pretty sure it had no effect at all (Sarcasm)]



Do I think Squard's stab affected Marineford Whitebeard? Of course it did. Do I think it was the biggest thing affecting him? Not even close. I think his illness was the biggest handicap, it really ruined his haki badly. And fighting two Admirals at the same time when your haki doesn't work most of the time and you can get a heart attack at any time is going to lead to a very ugly ending.



> [Whitebeard survives said hit and proceeds to beat Akainu with a total of 5 unnamed hits/attacks (including clashes)]



Yes, Marineford Whitebeard defeated Akainu. That's precisely why I'm not allowing Akainu to fight Marineford Whitebeard alone in my scenario.



> [Roger dealt with prime WB's named attacks that were capable of destroying the entire world; Akainu only got a taste of that power and succumbed to the injuries]



Roger and Prime Whitebeard are the strongest characters in the series, I don't think I never questioned or denied this.



> A healthy and uninjured WhiteBeard is without a doubt beating Akainu. Said Whitebeard would never have a heart stab. He would never get the heart attack that led to his intestines getting burned. Meaning, that Akainu would be fighting a much stronger Whitebeard.



I have to admit, I don't understand why you keep bringing up a healthy Whitebeard. My post mentioned Marineford Whitebeard numerous times. Marineford Whitebeard is not healthy. Marienford Whitebeard's haki barely works. Marineford Whitebeard gets heart attacks randomly. And Marineford Whitebeard is who I said Akainu and Kizaru are fighting together. I was only commenting on scenario 1 lol. A healthy and uninjured Whitebeard is the world's strongest man, and I firmly believe he can beat any Admiral or any Yonko in a fight.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 1, 2019)

My tl;dr quota has been met for the day gentlemen, we will have to continue this debate some other time.


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## CaptainCommander (Apr 1, 2019)

WB isn't handicapped by his fodder sons being in the mix so he can let loose as much as he wants to. He also only has the admirals to worry about and not BB, BB crew, Squard, or countless fodder Marines to use him as a punching bag.

Therefore WB alone should be able to wreck these guys pretty hard since he can put them down much easier than they can put him down.

Bonus scenario should make him at least comparable to Meme in khaki/stats which means he can just tank and dodge making this a solo win for him.

As for Meme, all jokes aside the blimp cannot be damaged unless she is sig weakened first. Fuck the "opponent of her level" BS because the Admirals have never fought her or a healthy Yonko. They don't have the feats/fire power to sig damage her. Her Homies also cannot be hurt so the only question left is how much punishment can the Admirals take from her before biting the dust.

Kaido is a ridiculous overkill. Add some sea to drown him in, some narcotic to immobilize him, or just substitute Fugi and Kuzan for Hawkins with some booze . No way to hurt that thing means the Admirals lose by default without some other way to "defeat" without harming.


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 1, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> I thought you were supposed to be defending the Yonko?


I am but hurting WB in MF arc is not impressive as you think cause all he did is tank any attack.


A Optimistic said:


> I'll just be blunt, do you think Marineford Whitebeard can beat Kizaru and Akainu at the exact same time? Yes or no?


Yes, If we're talking healthy WB cause we don't know what trigger WB to not be able to use Haki in MF arc consistently maybe the Squardo stab is the reason?


A Optimistic said:


> Marco has a fruit designed to heal him from injuries for a certain amount of time.


when Garp hit him in the face Marco cannot regenerate the said injury why is that? 


A Optimistic said:


> Yes, Marco kicked Kizaru while he was in midair. Reminds me of King kicking the Big Mom's ship down a waterfall.


Comparing a ship to an Admiral , Kizaru unlike the ship can put all his strength to that block against Marco.


A Optimistic said:


> Aokiji successfully dodging Whitebeard's attack, preparing a counter attack, and Whitebeard needed to be recused by Jozu is a point against Aokiji? I thought that would be a point in Aokiji's favour.


In WB and Jozu's mind Aokiji is just an enemy that Jozu can handle pretty well that's why WB let Jozu fought Aokiji. a much more stronger character doesn't need to be save.


A Optimistic said:


> I don't like what you're doing here. You're using Smoothie's statement about how none of the Sweet Commanders can stop Big Mom and are somehow attempting to make that statement apply to Marco as well. Smoothie's comment wasn't about Marco. And none of the Sweet Commanders have a fruit that's designed to heal injuries for a certain amount of time, so I don't feel like that's an accurate comparison.


If the BMP did say that it can apply to the WB pirates too. Yonko been stalemating each other for a long time now It means every Yonko crew is comparable to each other.


A Optimistic said:


> I also feel like you forgot to include multiple YC vs Admiral examples in your post, so let me fill in the blanks.
> 
> - Akainu punching a hole through Ace
> 
> ...


Top Commander what I meant with that, Sweet, Calamity etc.


A Optimistic said:


> Did the Admirals all fight Marineford Whitebeard at the same time or something? I don't understand what you mean here. Who said they won? All I'm saying is that Akainu and Kizaru will defeat Marineford Whitebeard together. What has Marineford Whitebeard shown that indicates he can take two Admirals at the exact same time?


I never said the same time too, WB in MF arc fought all Admirals not together but that is still impressive on its own, who other top tier fought other top tiers in just one fight? and WB shown that all he needs to do is Hit admiral the way he hit Akainu. He have the power to take admiral down and with healthy condition with application of Coa, Coo and Coc for the caliber of WB we can expect top tier Haki which we don't see in MF arc.


A Optimistic said:


> Why is Kaido not being able to die relevant to this thread? Someone doesn't need to die in order to lose a fight, they just need to be defeated. And Kaidou has been defeated 7 times, and he's been captured 18 times. As for Kaido one shotting Luffy, I can't say I find that particularly impressive. I consider Yonko Commanders to be much weaker than Admirals/Yonko.


Okay, Kaido's immortality is not going to help me here but remember if it's 1 on 1 always bet on Kaido. in which this battle match up if Kaido fought one admiral he secure the win and able to help other Yonko who's not yet finish on their fight.


A Optimistic said:


> I do have a question for you, do you think if Akainu can one shot Luffy with Meigo? Or do you think Luffy is somehow able to tank or dodge that attack? Keep in mind that's the attack that took of half of Whitebeard's attack and it's probably the attack that took off Aokiji's leg.


Meigo is really incredible offensive attack but so is Gamma Knife but as long as you don't hit your opponent it's useless. What impressive about Kaido's divine thunder is the speed and that speed help him connect that attack with future sight Luffy in which Akainu is not that impressive we don't see him to be able to appear instantly or blitz anyone in MF arc.


A Optimistic said:


> I wasn't aware that Big Mom was that impressive, I must have missed all her amazing feats on Whole Cake Island.


No you're aware of BM feat you just don't use your imagination this time. Her homies made by the logia of his opponents who eat and only get stronger by eating said power and to only hurt them is Brook's power.


A Optimistic said:


> Also what do you mean Big Mom can't be hurt? What are you basing this claim on? Because people much weaker than her failed to hurt her on Whole Cake Island?


It's not because we only see weaker opponent failed to hurt her it's automatically can be said that a top tier can hurt her. Too lazy to post Capone statement but he said her body work like Magic that you can hurt her only by meeting some kind of condition to BM case is to brake Mother Caramel photo. She eating cannonball, her hair become fire and so on and it only prove what Capone said. when it comes to durability she is an outlier.


A Optimistic said:


> I personally don't see how Marineford Whitebeard wins that fight, and once he's down, that means it's Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji vs Kaido. And then once Kaido is down, that means it's all four Admirals versus Big Mom.


Here I see this match up, Kaido Vs. Two admiral, WB(Healthy) Vs. Admiral, BM Vs. Admiral. in this scenario WB and BM can win their fight while Kaido sure on disadvantage is still able to last longer cause of his durability.


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## Corax (Apr 2, 2019)

BM durability is a myth. She lost her memory then she fell from QMC and if you look closely at that page she is lying on a beach all in bruises (and she wasn't in her weakened hungy state). So strong physical attacks can harm her and even cause brain damage. Not sure how tall that waterfall is, but still she can be harmed if something hits her hard.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Apr 2, 2019)

TBH I'm not convinced that 3 admirals would defeat 2 yonko. 3 vs 4, I'm giving it to the yonko ~85% of the time.



Corax said:


> BM durability is a myth. She lost her memory then she fell from QMC and if you look closely at that page she is lying on a beach all in bruises (and she wasn't in her weakened hungy state). So strong physical attacks can harm her and even cause brain damage. Not sure how tall that waterfall is, but still she can be harmed if something hits her hard.



Luffy can't even use haki while wearing some damn seastone cuffs, you expect BM to maintain her defense while she's completely submerged in water?


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## Corax (Apr 3, 2019)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> TBH I'm not convinced that 3 admirals would defeat 2 yonko. 3 vs 4, I'm giving it to the yonko ~85% of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Luffy can't even use haki while wearing some damn seastone cuffs, you expect BM to maintain her defense while she's completely submerged in water?


Her defence is her body,it shouldn't be affected by sea water. She was born with it (as Bege said). Sea stone drains stamina,but doesn't cancel natural durability,otherwise Kaido would be dead years ago (but in fact marines failed to execute him while he was in kairoseki chains).

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Apr 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Her defence is her body,it shouldn't be affected by sea water. She was born with it (as Bege said). *Sea stone drains stamina,but doesn't cancel natural durability,otherwise Kaido would be dead years ago (but in fact marines failed to execute him while he was in kairoseki chains).*



Good point.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unicornsilovethem (Apr 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Her defence is her body,it shouldn't be affected by sea water. She was born with it (as Bege said). Sea stone drains stamina,but doesn't cancel natural durability,otherwise Kaido would be dead years ago (but in fact marines failed to execute him while he was in kairoseki chains).


You're bringing Kaido into this but we don't know what causes his durability. In BM's case, however, we do. And it's haki. Otherwise it would not be switched off when she loses her composure.


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## Corax (Apr 3, 2019)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> You're bringing Kaido into this but we don't know what causes his durability. In BM's case, however, we do. And it's haki. Otherwise it would not be switched off when she loses her composure.


It isn't haki. Bege said that it is her body. Haki of course makes her more durable,but haki makes everyone more durable. Doesn't matter anyway. She fell from the waterfall and suffered brain damage and also got some bruises. In the same situation Kaido got a headeache,even Gedatsu faired better.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Apr 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> It isn't haki. Bege said that it is her body. Haki of course makes her more durable,but haki makes everyone more durable. Doesn't matter anyway. She fell from the waterfall and suffered brain damage and also got some bruises. In the same situation Kaido got a headeache,even Gedatsu faired better.


Kaido didn't fall into water and Gedatsu is not a DF user.


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## CaptainCommander (Apr 3, 2019)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> Kaido didn't fall into water and Gedatsu is not a DF user.



I'm certain with all his "defeats" he's been dunked plenty of times. Just like they probably used Seastone too. Enough to get the "win" but still not enough juice to ice that thing.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Apr 3, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> I'm certain with all his "defeats" he's been dunked plenty of times. Just like they probably used Seastone too. Enough to get the "win" but still not enough juice to ice that thing.


Okay? Again I'm not making any assertions about why Kaido can't be hurt. Only about why BM can't. We know her defense doesn't work when she is in a particular emotional state. We know it because we saw it happen. We also know it doesn't work when she - a DF user - is under water. Both of these things are exactly what you'd expect from a haki-based defense. So there are two possibilities: (1) it's haki, or (2) it's a new special power, apparently completely unique to BM, un-named and un-explained, that does the exact same job as haki and has the exact same weaknesses as haki even though it _isn't_ haki. If you subscribe to option 2, I'm going to have to say you're being a bit ridiculous.


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## CaptainCommander (Apr 3, 2019)

Of course its Haki. That's how power works in One Piece.


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## Grimm6Jack (Apr 3, 2019)

_*Kaido just casually one-shots G4 Luffy, with nothing but straight power, not even using his Hybrid Zoan form. Luffy, the same guy that tango'd with an Admiral level opponent in the previous Arc*_
Whitebeard even at his oldest, in MF Arc, is at the very least on Kaido's level or ever so slightly inferior-stronger.
Add Big Mom and this is just a straight up massacre.

We even saw that same old and sick and wounded WB pretty much two-shot the strongest Admiral on MF.

How people can even argue for the Admirals is beyond me. But then again I did notice this section is full of Admiral wankers.

A lot of you wankers even putting them solidly above guys like Shanks, Mihawk and Blackbeard 

There's a reason why Garp(one who knows full well how strong everyone is, namely legendary pirates) stated the Marines-Government didn't want to face a Yonkou like Whitebeard and Rayleight at the same time.

LoL Fuck this, Kaido and Whitebeard would defeat those 4 without any massive or big injuries, maybe a few scratches here and there and that's it. So yep, mid-diff.


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 3, 2019)

Grimm6Jack said:


> _*Kaido just casually one-shots G4 Luffy, with nothing but straight power, not even using his Hybrid Zoan form. Luffy, the same guy that tango'd with an Admiral level opponent in the previous Arc*_
> Whitebeard even at his oldest, in MF Arc, is at the very least on Kaido's level or ever so slightly inferior-stronger.
> Add Big Mom and this is just a straight up massacre.
> 
> ...


 The current marines are stated to be the strongest in history. That cant be true if all the admirals are First Mate Level. Prime Garp would one shot them all.

Akainu's fruit is said in the db to have the highest offensive power too


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 3, 2019)

Grimm6Jack said:


> _*Kaido just casually one-shots G4 Luffy, with nothing but straight power, not even using his Hybrid Zoan form. Luffy, the same guy that tango'd with an Admiral level opponent in the previous Arc*_
> Whitebeard even at his oldest, in MF Arc, is at the very least on Kaido's level or ever so slightly inferior-stronger.
> Add Big Mom and this is just a straight up massacre.
> 
> ...



Kinda agree, Kaidou and Whitebeard are recognized as the most powerful individuals on the planet, Whitebeard even sick and impaled managed to stand up to three Admiral (almost beat one at full power) while fighting all fooders soldiers of Marineford, Kaidou and Big Mom just one shoot Luffy aka the The Fifth Emperor without a slightest scratch, the first scenario may be debatable but the second is clearly in favor of Yonkou (if instead of Kaidou and Whitebeard, Op had put Shank and Black Beard it would have been already more interesting)


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2019)

Don King said:


> I am but hurting WB in MF arc is not impressive as you think cause all he did is tank any attack.
> 
> Yes, If we're talking healthy WB cause we don't know what trigger WB to not be able to use Haki in MF arc consistently maybe the Squardo stab is the reason?
> 
> ...



Alright bro, I'll give you one last reply later on tonight but then I'm done with this thread.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2019)

Don King said:


> I am but hurting WB in MF arc is not impressive as you think cause all he did is tank any attack.



How is it not impressive? When have we ever seen anyone chop off half of someone's face before? If the marine fodder were able to do that as well, then you would have a point. But they clearly weren't able to.



> Yes, If we're talking healthy WB



We're not. Re-read Scenario 1.



> cause we don't know what trigger WB to not be able to use Haki in MF arc consistently maybe the Squardo stab is the reason?



You hyping up the Yonkou as the strongest characters in the series, but then at the same time having the audacity to claim that Squardo's stab was the cause for haki issues is a complete and utter contradiction. The strongest characters in the series according to you, have their haki stop working when they get stabbed? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever and contradicts your entire argument.

It was obviously Whitebeard's illness that was the cause for his haki's issues. There is a reason we saw Whitebeard's excellent CoO when he one shotted Ace in his sleep while he was on his IV support. There's a reason Whitebeard was able to split the heavens open with Shanks when he had his IV support system. There's a reason why we have a direct panel of Marco stating that Whitebeard's CoO got worse, with a clear image of Whitebeard taking off his IV support system in the background. Whitebeard's haki decline is 100% due to his illness, it's not up for debate.





> when Garp hit him in the face Marco cannot regenerate the said injury why is that?



It did regenerate. As you can see, the injury is directly below Marco's left eye.



Here is Marco in the next chapter. No bruise under his left eye.





> Comparing a ship to an Admiral , Kizaru unlike the ship can put all his strength to that block against Marco.



I'm not comparing a ship to an Admiral? I'm comparing Big Mom and Kizaru's interaction with a first mate. First of all, you're the one who said that a Yonkou Commander is no match for a Yonkou. Therefore please explain why Big Mom wasn't able to react to King's speed? Why wasn't she able to simply grab Zeus and throw it at King? That should have been an easy task for Big Mom, after all you're the one who claimed that Yonkou Commanders can't match Yonkous. And yet, Big Mom not even being able to attack King before he kicked the ship seems to contradict your argument.



> In WB and Jozu's mind Aokiji is just an enemy that Jozu can handle pretty well that's why WB let Jozu fought Aokiji.



Why does it matter what Whitebeard and Jozu think? Big Mom thought Cracker would be enough to defeat the Straw Hats in the Seducing Woods. Doflamingo thought Baby 5 and Buffalo would be enough back up. Doflamingo thought Vergo would destroy Law. I can bring up 500 more examples if you want. There are countless characters who overestimate their allies/subordinates and underestimate their enemies in One Piece, it doesn't mean anything.

What matters are the results. Did Jozu ever harm Aokiji again after catching him off-guard? Yes or no?



> a much more stronger character doesn't need to be save.



Whitebeard _was _saved from Aokiji from Jozu, no amount of excuses can deny what took place in the manga.



> If the BMP did say that it can apply to the WB pirates too. Yonko been stalemating each other for a long time now It means every Yonko crew is comparable to each other.



No it doesn't mean that. As I said in a previously reply, a Yonkou would have to be able to defeat all 3 Yonkou if they want an edge. That doesn't mean they are equal. It just means they have too many enemies. For example, the World Government is the strongest faction in the entire series, but they are in a stalemate because they have so many enemies to deal with. They have the 4 Yonko, the Revolutionaries ect ect. That doesn't mean a single Yonkou crew is even close to the power of the World Government just because there's a stalemate. It just means that there are so many enemies that there isn't anyone strong enough to overpower them all at once.



> Top Commander what I meant with that, Sweet, Calamity etc.



Marco and Vista are top commanders. Explain why they both failed to harm Akainu together if they are close to Akainu in strength like you claim.



> and WB shown that all he needs to do is Hit admiral the way he hit Akainu. He have the power to take admiral down



And lose half his head in the process.



> and with healthy condition with application of Coa, Coo and Coc for the caliber of WB we can expect top tier Haki which we don't see in MF arc.



He's not healthy in scenario 1 and his haki will barely be working.



> Okay, Kaido's immortality is not going to help me here but remember if it's 1 on 1 always bet on Kaido. in which this battle match up if Kaido fought one admiral he secure the win and able to help other Yonko who's not yet finish on their fight.



If you recall, I had Kaido vs Aokiji in my scenario. It's an interesting scenario in my eyes because Aokiji's ice power will ignore Kaido's durability, which is Kaido's strongest asset. Still though, I never once claimed Aokiji would win. Aokiji's job is to merely stall Kaido until Akainu and Kizaru defeat Marineford Whitebeard. Just because Kaido can win every 1 on 1 fight doesn't mean he can win before two Admirals kill Marineford Whitebeard.



> Meigo is really incredible offensive attack but so is Gamma Knife but as long as you don't hit your opponent it's useless. What impressive about Kaido's divine thunder is the speed and that speed help him connect that attack with future sight Luffy in which Akainu is not that impressive we don't see him to be able to appear instantly or blitz anyone in MF arc.



Well I personally think Akainu can one shot current Luffy in Gear 4 with Meigo, just like Kaido did with Divine Thunder. Since we disagree on this fundamental point, we will never see eye to eye on anything in this debate so in all honestly, we're just both wasting each other's time. Perhaps in another 10 years when we finally see Luffy vs Akainu, we will see who's right.



> No you're aware of BM feat you just don't use your imagination this time. Her homies made by the logia of his opponents who eat and only get stronger by eating said power and to only hurt them is Brook's power.



And her homies have done what exactly? Base Luffy dodged them. Jinbei dodged them. Moscato dodged them.



> It's not because we only see weaker opponent failed to hurt her it's automatically can be said that a top tier can hurt her. Too lazy to post Capone statement but he said her body work like Magic that you can hurt her only by meeting some kind of condition to BM case is to brake Mother Caramel photo. She eating cannonball, her hair become fire and so on and it only prove what Capone said. when it comes to durability she is an outlier.



You just stated that Kaido can win every 1 on 1 fight, now you're stating that Big Mom can't be hurt. That's a contradiction. Since when is tanking cannonballs impressive? This isn't East Blue. We saw Doflamingo tank a bazooka to the face at point blank range. Capone's statement doesn't mean anything, he's a million times weaker then her and has only been part of the Big Mom Pirates for merely 1 year so him being impressed doesn't mean anything. Think about what you're saying by claiming Big Mom can't be injured. You're claiming that Kaido (who you just said can win any 1 on 1 fight) can't hurt her. That Whitebeard who was praised as the World's Strongest Man and has the most destructive fruit can't hurt her. That Gold Roger can't hurt her. That Shanks, who split the heavens along with Whitebeard can't hurt her. That Luffy (in the future) who has vowed to kick her ass, won't be able to hurt her when that time comes. Big Mom not being able to be injured makes absolutely no sense and contradicts previous claims you made.

We even witness Big Mom being bruised on Wano beach.



> Here I see this match up, Kaido Vs. Two admiral, WB(Healthy) Vs. Admiral, BM Vs. Admiral. in this scenario WB and BM can win their fight while Kaido sure on disadvantage is still able to last longer cause of his durability.



Kaido can't beat two admirals. Whitebeard isn't healthy in scenario 1. There really isn't any evidence that Big Mom can beat an Admiral.

That being said Don Krieg, while I did enjoy this debate a lot and you are good debater, we will have to end this here. Neither of us are ever going to say anything to convince the other person's mind and we're just going in circles and wasting each other's time. We'll just let the manga decide who's right when the time comes.


----------



## Beast (Apr 4, 2019)

How do you still fight a lost battle?
The whole Ray/ WB hype is nothing, Ray would have joined the same fate if he was at MF tbh, if shanks didn’t come save his ass.


----------



## Kylo Ren (Apr 4, 2019)

My last reply too.


A Optimistic said:


> How is it not impressive? When have we ever seen anyone chop off half of someone's face before? If the marine fodder were able to do that as well, then you would have a point. But they clearly weren't able to.


Admiral > fodder. I'm not saying that Akainu chop off WB half face is not impressive it is but the point that you making is Admirals land a hit on WB and you even list it above on your first post. You think that it's impressive to hit WB but I just reply that even fodder able to do it. If a fodder able to hit WB you will expect the Admirals are able to do the same with only much more damage input. In which you present here as a great achievement but it's not really.


A Optimistic said:


> You hyping up the Yonkou as the strongest characters in the series, but then at the same time having the audacity to claim that Squardo's stab was the cause for haki issues is a complete and utter contradiction. The strongest characters in the series according to you, have their haki stop working when they get stabbed? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever and contradicts your entire argument.
> 
> It was obviously Whitebeard's illness that was the cause for his haki's issues. There is a reason we saw Whitebeard's excellent CoO when he one shotted Ace in his sleep while he was on his IV support. There's a reason Whitebeard was able to split the heavens open with Shanks when he had his IV support system. There's a reason why we have a direct panel of Marco stating that Whitebeard's CoO got worse, with a clear image of Whitebeard taking off his IV support system in the background. Whitebeard's haki decline is 100% due to his illness, it's not up for debate.


I said Maybe so I'm assuming. how do we know that the stab to the heart didn't make it more harder for WB to use Haki? the illness is there but that stab started it all "his health is getting worse!" because of the stab.


A Optimistic said:


> It did regenerate. As you can see, the injury is directly below Marco's left eye.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is Marco in the next chapter. No bruise under his left eye.


it still does though the Majority of it get healed it is not 100%. 


A Optimistic said:


> I'm not comparing a ship to an Admiral? I'm comparing Big Mom and Kizaru's interaction with a first mate. First of all, you're the one who said that a Yonkou Commander is no match for a Yonkou. Therefore please explain why Big Mom wasn't able to react to King's speed? Why wasn't she able to simply grab Zeus and throw it at King? That should have been an easy task for Big Mom, after all you're the one who claimed that Yonkou Commanders can't match Yonkous. And yet, Big Mom not even being able to attack King before he kicked the ship seems to contradict your argument.


In a straight up fight what I'm talking about. Kizaru Vs. Marco is a straight up 1v1 where King scenario is very different situation. How many times Luffy get caught up like that or Zoro in Yeti brothers. There is a reason King used that kind of tactic because if it work BM will land in water in which every DF user weaknesses He knows well he is no match even Kaido is worried if She land in Wano. as to why BM didn't do anything to prevent that attack from happening is first of all King have a territory advantages and he used it very well he hide and wait for that opportune moment in a split second to attack so BMP are unable to prevent. 


A Optimistic said:


> What matters are the results. Did Jozu ever harm Aokiji again after catching him off-guard? Yes or no?


No but so did Aokiji, he cannot harm Jozu too without the distraction needed.


A Optimistic said:


> Whitebeard _was _saved from Aokiji from Jozu, no amount of excuses can deny what took place in the manga.


Saved? who ever said WB is need to be save on that situation is delusional. WB is not in a life and death situation and we both know if that fight didn't get interfered by Jozu we both going to give it to WB as who is the winner of that match up. If you ask me Jozu save Aokiji not WB. 


A Optimistic said:


> No it doesn't mean that. As I said in a previously reply, a Yonkou would have to be able to defeat all 3 Yonkou if they want an edge. That doesn't mean they are equal. It just means they have too many enemies. For example, the World Government is the strongest faction in the entire series, but they are in a stalemate because they have so many enemies to deal with. They have the 4 Yonko, the Revolutionaries ect ect. That doesn't mean a single Yonkou crew is even close to the power of the World Government just because there's a stalemate. It just means that there are so many enemies that there isn't anyone strong enough to overpower them all at once.


Wrong! Why go WG where we have a Yonko Vs. Yonko comparison where they engage in battle(Law statement) and the climax of that is they stalemate each other until they become a group of pirates crew that stronger than the others. They are the top 4 and they are views as equals. BM when wants something in this case Kill Luffy get out of her territories to go to war against Kaido where WG needs to be considerate of their position. They the want to maintain the balance but the pirates doesn't care about that at all except Shanks maybe.


A Optimistic said:


> Marco and Vista are top commanders. Explain why they both failed to harm Akainu together if they are close to Akainu in strength like you claim.


in WCI arc we saw Katakuri master of Coo when not focus is not able to control it properly. Marco and Vista even though they land the hit with Haki is not able to hurt Akainu is because they're not focus enough which if we compared with Katakuri scenario he is able to still use Coo Haki but not at it's fullest capabilities. 


A Optimistic said:


> If you recall, I had Kaido vs Aokiji in my scenario. It's an interesting scenario in my eyes because Aokiji's ice power will ignore Kaido's durability, which is Kaido's strongest asset. Still though, I never once claimed Aokiji would win. Aokiji's job is to merely stall Kaido until Akainu and Kizaru defeat Marineford Whitebeard. *Just because Kaido can win every 1 on 1 fight doesn't mean he can win before two Admirals kill Marineford Whitebeard.*


and it doesn't mean that the two Admirals can defeat WB before Kaido defeat one Admiral. Nothing is certain but Kaido have the speed, durability and power to defeat said admiral with ease and WB have a endurance to last long and I'm not going to doubt it WB showed it to us in MF arc.


A Optimistic said:


> And her homies have done what exactly? Base Luffy dodged them. Jinbei dodged them. Moscato dodged them.


It's what they can offer sure they cannot hurt said Admirals but an Admirals where his logia is useless who will win a fight against BM in physical battle and in the age of 5 her strength is out of this world.


A Optimistic said:


> You just stated that Kaido can win every 1 on 1 fight, now you're stating that Big Mom can't be hurt. That's a contradiction. Since when is tanking cannonballs impressive? This isn't East Blue. We saw Doflamingo tank a bazooka to the face at point blank range. Capone's statement doesn't mean anything, he's a million times weaker then her and has only been part of the Big Mom Pirates for merely 1 year so him being impressed doesn't mean anything. Think about what you're saying by claiming Big Mom can't be injured. You're claiming that Kaido (who you just said can win any 1 on 1 fight) can't hurt her. That Whitebeard who was praised as the World's Strongest Man and has the most destructive fruit can't hurt her. That Gold Roger can't hurt her. That Shanks, who split the heavens along with Whitebeard can't hurt her. That Luffy (in the future) who has vowed to kick her ass, won't be able to hurt her when that time comes. Big Mom not being able to be injured makes absolutely no sense and contradicts previous claims you made.
> 
> We even witness Big Mom being bruised on Wano beach.


It's true that I will give it to Kaido if ever they will fight because unlike BM, Kaido have seen power to one shot FM level fighter unlike BM whose main feat that I'm impressed with is her durability only but with Kaido his durability, his speed and strength. 

You don't seeing my point here, BM who eat cannonball then being unscratched after that and BM after meeting a condition(Mother Caramel being broke) where just being on her knees make her bleed. That's different situation Oda's trying to make here. this is like there some kind of duality in BM's twisted mind or anything that we haven't explore yet. There is clearly a different version of BM here one that's unstoppable and one that can be hurt and Luffy as an MC will going to exploit it further for us to understand when his time to defeat her. 

lastly, Even Roger didn't fight her he just stole the Road Poneglyph, and she don't bare any scar only make my point stronger.


A Optimistic said:


> That being said Don Krieg, while I did enjoy this debate a lot and you are good debater, we will have to end this here. Neither of us are ever going to say anything to convince the other person's mind and we're just going in circles and wasting each other's time. We'll just let the manga decide who's right when the time comes.


I totally agree and it help me cope with break this week but who the fuck is Don Krieg


----------



## Beast (Apr 4, 2019)

Mihawk= Shanks 
Shanks = Healthy WB
That same Mihawk did less to Vista (YC3/4) than the admirals did to superior commanders. 

AdmiralInc is serious though, make people look like edieeets.


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## DA hawk (Apr 5, 2019)

Scenario 1 goes to the admirals, no question. That version of WB isn't lasting long against 2 admirals.

Fight #1 BM Vs kizaru
Fight #2 Kaidou Vs Aokiji
Fight #3 WB Vs akainu + Fuji.

Fight #3 ends the earliest, which then means Fuji joins kizaru and akainu joins aokiji. Admirals win!


Scenario 2 however is completely different. A healthy WB can go against 2 admirals, and maybe even take 1 out with him, which leaves kaidou and BM for 1v1 fights. And since in my view I don't think fujitora is as strong as the C3, I'll lean to the Yonkou.

Fight #1 BM Vs kizaru
Fight #2 Kaidou Vs Aokiji
Fight #3 WB Vs akainu + Fuji.

Fight #3 WB is defeated but takes out Fuji with him. But by that time,
Fight #2 Kaidou defeats Aokiji, then takes on Akainu.
Fight #1 stalemate.

Kaidou would defeat akainu and Kizaru is overwhelmed by 2 Yonkou. The yonkou takes this!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 5, 2019)

Admirals win anyone that says otherwise is retarded. 

With no manga plot protection Kizaru(The fastest dude in the manga) puts a laser in the skull of whoevers busy fighting another admiral. 

Rince and repeat until all the yonkou are dead.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Apr 5, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Admirals win anyone that says otherwise is retarded.
> 
> With no manga plot protection Kizaru(The fastest dude in the manga) puts a laser in the skull of whoevers busy fighting another admiral.
> 
> Rince and repeat until all the yonkou are dead.


You're retarded for actually thinking that Kizaru can just do that.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 5, 2019)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> You're retarded for actually thinking that Kizaru can just do that.



Why wouldn't he be able to? 

He negated Whitebeards sneak attack taking zero damage, pinned down his bisento, and shot him in the chest(no reason besides plot he didnt aim for his heart or head). 

Whats stopping Kizaru from doing the exact same shit while Whitebeard is busy fighting Akainu. How do you suggest Whitebeard stop the fastest man on the planet from doing just that?

 I would love to see the manga panels that suggest otherwise. Guess what though there arent any XD.


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## Corax (Apr 8, 2019)

It was only for plot purposes that Kizaru aimed for the chest,and not for the head or eye. We all know that he can even snipe a small key from like hundred meters away.Akainu had to mortally wound old WB,not Kizaru.


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## tejas8055 (Apr 9, 2019)

Actually even the weakest Yonko, Shanks would be able to solo 3 AdmiraLs and win. And Kizaru's lasers even fail to tickle WB. WB did not seem to mind it at the least. BM homies are overkill for Logia AdmiraLs since homies can't be damaged by conventional means. And no AdmiraL has the offensive capability to damage BM. And as for the bullshit about Akainu's DF having the highest attack power, the same source that is Vivre Card Databook says Jozu has the strongest attack.


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## Geralt-Singh (Apr 9, 2019)




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## Jin san (Apr 9, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> Actually even the weakest Yonko, Shanks would be able to solo 3 AdmiraLs and win. And Kizaru's lasers even fail to tickle WB. WB did not seem to mind it at the least. BM homies are overkill for Logia AdmiraLs since homies can't be damaged by conventional means. And no AdmiraL has the offensive capability to damage BM. And as for the bullshit about Akainu's DF having the highest attack power, the same source that is Vivre Card Databook says Jozu has the strongest attack.


Bruh what drugs are u on


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## Steven (Apr 9, 2019)

tejas8055 said:


> Actually even the weakest Yonko, Shanks would be able to solo 3 AdmiraLs and win. And Kizaru's lasers even fail to tickle WB. WB did not seem to mind it at the least. BM homies are overkill for Logia AdmiraLs since homies can't be damaged by conventional means. And no AdmiraL has the offensive capability to damage BM. And as for the bullshit about Akainu's DF having the highest attack power, the same source that is Vivre Card Databook says Jozu has the strongest attack.


Kaido wank is 1 thing but Shanks wank is to much


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## Woodward (Apr 9, 2019)

Admirals win this via outlast. Yonkos and Admirals are portrayed as equal power, it doesn't matter what Yonko fanboys or Admiral fanboys think, what matters is what Oda thinks. 

-Whitebeard would tire out and die because of his illness.
-Big Mom would tier out because of her hunger; when she loses mass, she gets slaughtered.
-We don't know what kind of stamina Kaido and Shanks have, but I doubt it matches the Admirals.

Admirals can fight for 10 days straight. They win this.


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## tejas8055 (Apr 10, 2019)

Jin san said:


> Bruh what drugs are u on


One Piece. 



Acnologia said:


> Kaido wank is 1 thing but Shanks wank is to much


I hate the Shanks wank too.


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## sanji's left eye (Apr 12, 2019)

Eh the gap between Admirals and Yonkou is bigger than some realize. After Kaidou's one shotting of Luffy, it is pretty hard to believe that Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, or Fujitora could do ANYTHING close to one shotting Luffy. BM is also the worst one to team up against. Her homies make it very possible for her to force the admirals back and allow her to run interference.

There is really only one question I have to ask myself: Do I believe BM can distract 2 Admirals longer than it would take for WB and Kaidou to defeat their opponents? Yes, I definitely believe that. Of course BM is not stronger than 2 Admirals together. But that's not what is required. They have to put her down completely. And as we know through Luffy, even when you are comfortably stronger than the other side, that can still take while. So yeah the Yonkous win with high difficulty.


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## YoungChief (Apr 13, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Why wouldn't he be able to?
> 
> He negated Whitebeards sneak attack taking zero damage, pinned down his bisento, and shot him in the chest(no reason besides plot he didnt aim for his heart or head).
> 
> ...


Akainu blew half of WB's head off and WB was still fighting, I doubt a laser to the head would have killed him outright. You straight up think Kizaru is the strongest character in the series or something? Because that's what it sounds like

We know for a fact that Kaidou is incapable of being killed by the admirals OR the yonkou, so how do the yonkou lose this battle? Yeah he was captured before but if he's got yonkou backing him up there's no way that's happening here. Kaidou and Big Mom's durability is ridiculous too, without question their durability is higher than that of the admirals, there's no way the admirals could take the barrage Luffy unleashed on Kaidou with no damage like he did, also I'm sure those two could coordinate well together considering they were once on the same crew together

4>3 may seem bad but Big Mom has homies with her and she could make more out of for example the ice that Aokiji uses, or Akainu's lava, those would not only help to counter their opponents abilities but even up the numbers more, each of the yonkou could have a homie backing them up here.

Whitebeard was holding back his quake power during marineford because his crew was there, he would have no reason to hold back here as his allies have insane durability and wouldn't have to worry about harming them so much


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## g4snake108 (Apr 13, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> How do you suggest Whitebeard stop the fastest man on the planet from doing just that?
> 
> I would love to see the manga panels that suggest otherwise. Guess what though there arent any XD.


The way Rayleigh did it, is how. There, have your manga evidence.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 13, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> The way Rayleigh did it, is how. There, have your manga evidence.



Don't recall Rayleigh fighting off kizaru and dodging his lasers while ducking it out with Akainu. 

I must of missed that chapter.




YoungChief said:


> Akainu blew half of WB's head off and WB was still fighting I doubt a laser to the head would have killed him outright.



Perhaps not but it doesn't really need to kill him right away. After a laser to the brain it wont be very difficult to shoot him in the head again.



> You straight up think Kizaru is the strongest character in the series or something? Because that's what it sounds like



Do you need to be the strongest man in the world to shoot a laser through whitebeards head while he is busy fighting another admiral?

If so then yea sure kizaru is WSM.



> We know for a fact that Kaidou is incapable of being killed by the admirals OR the yonkou


,





> so how do the yonkou lose this battle?



You put it like that im not sure why the other yonkou are here. Kaidou the unkillable man just solos. Hell while hes at it he just solos big mom and whitebeard along with the admirals cause he cant be killed. 



> Yeah he was captured before but if he's got yonkou backing him up there's no way that's happening here. Kaidou and Big Mom's durability is ridiculous too, without question their durability is higher than that of the admirals, there's no way the admirals could take the barrage Luffy unleashed on Kaidou with no damage like he did, also I'm sure those two could coordinate well together considering they were once on the same crew together



I agree they have better durability then the admirals but the admirals can work around it. Aokiji cares little for durability, fujitora with help can just force one of them under the water. Akainua devil fruit boasts the highest level of attack power according to the databook. If he gets a clean hit in they are going to feel it.



> 4>3 may seem bad but Big Mom has homies with her and she could make more out of for example the ice that Aokiji uses, or Akainu's lava, those would not only help to counter their opponents abilities but even up the numbers more, each of the yonkou could have a homie backing them up here.



Homies XD. Big moms homies are extremely unimpressive.

We got weaker then Ace level fire.

Weaker then Enel level lightning.

And big sword that got blocked by jinbei.



> Whitebeard was holding back his quake power during marineford because his crew was there, he would have no reason to hold back here as his allies have insane durability and wouldn't have to worry about harming them so much



Same goes for the admirals. None of them were going all out. They would of killed a fuck ton of marines if they did.

But yes whitebeard is free to go crazy here. Although 3 of the 4 admirals are logias. So they dont have to really worry about whitebeards quakes unless he is directly attacking them.


----------



## YoungChief (Apr 13, 2019)

Why are you laughing at what I said about Kaidou being unable to be killed by them? What is there to laugh about, we know that for a fact.

No I'm not saying Kaidou can solo, I'm saying we know that Kaidou can't be killed by Admirals or Yonkou, so with other Yonkou backing him up how can he get taken out? As far as we know when Kaidou was captured in the past, he was solo, hence the saying about "in a 1v1 Kaido wins" or whatever, hinting that in his past defeats he was outnumbered. So if he's not getting killed or subdued, how can he lose

The homies are immune to most forms of damage, haki is useless against them and like I said, they can be made up of elements to counter the admirals, for example Prometheus could help to counter Aokiji, and she could make new ones during the fight. Prometheus enjoyed eating flames, and doing so restored his power, so if Big Mom made a lava homie, presumably it could do that to mitigate attacks from Akainu for example. Jinbei blocked a sword attack from a weakened big mom, earlier in the chase Big Mom used elbaf spears that were much more impressive than the cognac attack from skinny mom. As for their power, hard to gauge but the lightning attack Nami had Zeus do was powerful, and Perospero thought Big Mom had performed the attack herself so obviously she can do a similar attack

Where is this battle taking place anyway? You mentioned Fujitora throwing someone in water, idk how he'd do that considering homies can grant flight and save anyone that would fall in the water like how Zeus did, but seriously where is this taking place

I do agree that the Admirals were likely holding back during Marineford as well considering what we saw on Punk Hazard, but Whitebeards power unrestricted is far more scary considering Sengoku hype about him being able to destroy the world, and Tsuru saying there isn't a safe place in the entire world against Whitebeard. Fujitora's getting dicked on by some quakes, gravity aint stopping that


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## Ruse (Apr 13, 2019)

Admirals definitely win the first scenario, MF WB is too much of a liability with his health issues and once he goes down it becomes a slaughter. 

Can see the Yonko winning the other scenario, since that WB is a decent amount stronger than anyone on the marine side and so is Kaido going by his portrayal so far.


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## Steven (Apr 13, 2019)

Kaido has a giant scar on his chest...

This unkillable shit is nothing more than a big hypberbole


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## YoungChief (Apr 13, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Kaido has a giant scar on his chest...
> 
> This unkillable shit is nothing more than a big hyperbole


Then why isn't he dead, he's been captured numerous times by the top tiers of the verse, presumably put in seastone cuffs and yet he is still alive despite his best efforts to get himself killed


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## Steven (Apr 13, 2019)

YoungChief said:


> Then why isn't he dead, he's been captured numerous times by the top tiers of the verse, presumably put in seastone cuffs and yet he is still alive despite his best efforts to get himself killed


He just need to jump into the ocean

Then he will just drown.


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## YoungChief (Apr 13, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> He just need to jump into the ocean
> 
> Then he will just drown.


He may not have a devil fruit ability (popular theory) or there might be some other reason that wouldn't work. We saw jack survive underwater maybe kaido can too somehow


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## Grimm6Jack (Apr 13, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Akainu's fruit is said in the db to have the highest offensive power too



Well, that's either a complete mistranslation or there's some other meaning behind it.

Because the fruit which has the power to "Destroy the World" is certainly the one with the greatest offensive power. You can't get any more hype than that.

Maybe it's the fruit that's more "effective" in it's attacks since there's hardly any way to defend against it. But then again, same applies to a quake, and light lasers, and lightning, and freezing, and a black hole.


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## Flame (Apr 13, 2019)

Grimm6Jack said:


> Well, that's either a complete mistranslation or there's some other meaning behind it.
> 
> Because the fruit which has the power to "Destroy the World" is certainly the one with the greatest offensive power. You can't get any more hype than that.
> 
> Maybe it's the fruit that's more "effective" in it's attacks since there's hardly any way to defend against it. But then again, same applies to a quake, and light lasers, and lightning, and freezing, and a black hole.





> The original text says "悪魔の実の中でも最高峰の攻撃力を誇る".
> "It is known to have the strongest attack power even among the devil fruits."
> But the word 最高峰 literally means "the highest peak". Many people can stand together at the same time on the same peak... so to be exact, we cannot rule out the possibility that "it is known to have one of the strongest attack powers even among the devil fruits".
> The devil fruit is a most powerful one, but it can be one of many devil fruits with 最高峰の攻撃力.


While WB's fruit is more destructive, Akainu's is more lethal.

WB was hitting people with the Gura but all he accomplished was knocking them out. Akainu can literally melt away your body.


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## Flame (Apr 13, 2019)

What's with this yonko wank? Admirals take this.


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## g4snake108 (Apr 13, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Don't recall Rayleigh fighting off kizaru and dodging his lasers while ducking it out with Akainu.
> 
> I must of missed that chapter.


Doesn't need to..Ray stopped kizaru's current fastest attack midway,giving us perfectly acceptable feats of top tier opponents capable of reacting to kizaru and attacking him with pre-cog. So no, kizaru isn't one shotting or doing as he pleases to anyone in this thread. But yeah, if you were talking of beings like doffy level or lower, I would agree kizaru simply trolls his way straight through them with his laser spam.

...I don't know what akainu is doing in your example either..


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## Corax (Apr 13, 2019)

YoungChief said:


> He may not have a devil fruit ability (popular theory) or there might be some other reason that wouldn't work. We saw jack survive underwater maybe kaido can too somehow


This is a plot hole to be fair. If not for the sea current near Wano BM would be already dead. Even if Kaido can somehow breath underwater like Jack without outside aid he would be captured forever as he can't move his body underwater anyway.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 13, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Doesn't need to..Ray stopped kizaru's current fastest attack midway,giving us perfectly acceptable feats of top tier opponents capable of reacting to kizaru and attacking him with pre-cog. So no, kizaru isn't one shotting or doing as he pleases to anyone in this thread. But yeah, if you were talking of beings like doffy level or lower, I would agree kizaru simply trolls his way straight through them with his laser spam.
> 
> ...I don't know what akainu is doing in your example either..



Go back and reread my posts.

My arguement was that kizaru can shoot lasers though any of the yonkou while they are fighting another admiral aka a sneak attack. IE Akainu is fighting whitebeard and kizaru shoots him from behind while he is fighting Aka. 

Im not saying that 1v1 kizaru just zips around blitz one shoting all the yonkou.


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## g4snake108 (Apr 13, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Go back and reread my posts.
> 
> My arguement was that kizaru can shoot lasers though any of the yonkou while they are fighting another admiral aka a sneak attack. IE Akainu is fighting whitebeard and kizaru shoots him from behind while he is fighting Aka.
> 
> Im not saying that 1v1 kizaru just zips around blitz one shoting all the yonkou.


The first thing about observation haki is to be aware of your surroundings..This doesn't mean it is limited to the one guy in front of you.
*Spoiler*: _current chapter_ 



Luffy also showed it with predicting the moves of his 2 opponents in the recent chapter




Kizaru trying to sneak attack from behind(in your example) means even akainu has to be aware of kizaru's attack less WB dodges it and it catches akainu head on instead. OH means everyone(and definitely all those involved here) are perfectly capable of not getting caught by every sneak attack of kizaru flying through the battlefield one shotting anyone at any time.

Your fallacy of arguing using kizaru not being taken head on(instead of kuzan/akainu or fuji) and given free reign just because he is the fastest man and can shoot lasers to the head and kill top tiers with 1 hit is the only retarded thing I am arguing against.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 13, 2019)

How did I miss this discussion? 3 Top Tiers cannot beat 4 Top Tiers


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 13, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> The first thing about observation haki is to be aware of your surroundings..This doesn't mean it is limited to the one guy in front of you.
> *Spoiler*: _current chapter_
> 
> 
> ...



Perhaps sneak attack was the wrong word choice. I fully expect whitebeard to be aware that kizaru is near by and might attack him. Thats not to say i dont think kizaru(or whichever admiral is free to do so) wont try and attack another yonkou from long range.

But knowing a attack is coming doesnt mean you can block it. Two chapters ago Zoro got fucked over cause another opponent(who he knew was there) kept trying to stab him in the back and i think we can both agree that the admirals are closer to the yonkou then kamazo and Bridge thief are to Zoro and yet Zoro still got fucked over because he kept getting attacked from behind(by a relative weakling).

Akainu is a logia he doesnt have to worry about kizarus attacks.

What fallacy? The admirals outnumber the yonkou and kizaru is the fastest of them all. He can fight whoever he wants and the yonkou cant do shit about it. Of course the same shit applies to the other admiral. If Fujitora and Aokiji are fighting whoever that just makes it all the more easier for Aokiji to touch whoever and turn them into a popsicle with icetime or for Akainu to hit one of them with a meigou to the head.

One of the 3 yonkou are getting gang banged by two admirals and given his abilitys and attitude and long range sniping abilitys kizaru is the most likely one to be doing the cheap shotting but its open to all the admirals doesnt matter which.


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## Beast (Apr 13, 2019)

Every top tier (Yonko/ Admiral) could have achieved the same result if not better than Kaidous 1HKO against Luffy if PIS was off.


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## g4snake108 (Apr 13, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Perhaps sneak attack was the wrong word choice. I fully expect whitebeard to be aware that kizaru is near by and might attack him. Thats not to say i dont think kizaru(or whichever admiral is free to do so) wont try and attack another yonkou from long range.
> 
> But knowing a attack is coming doesnt mean you can block it. Two chapters ago Zoro got fucked over cause another opponent(who he knew was there) kept trying to stab him in the back and i think we can both agree that the admirals are closer to the yonkou then kamazo and Bridge thief are to Zoro and yet Zoro still got fucked over because he kept getting attacked from behind(by a relative weakling).
> 
> ...


I may have accidentally left out addressing all of your points here because my thoughts put out as the reply are a bit of a mess. And I am trying to put my positioning over 1 of the scenarios in the same message. So feel free to point out if I missed anything.

Every one here has a large aoe except for BM I guess , so shooting and getting shot in the cross fire is pretty much a guarantee, so kizaru isn't doing anything "new" if going by the battlefield set to us.

Yeah, dodging and knowing are 2 different things, but I doubt kizaru is the one going to be left free to roam here and here is my reasoning for that- I don't disagree that the admirals start out with a advantage because its 4 vs 3. But, you have to know that the advantage isn't that big to start with. Fuji is the weakest of the lot here and individually, each of the 3 yonkous is stronger than the admirals with the possible exception of akainu and BM, who in my opinion should be more or less the same based on hype and portrayal(I m not arguing the first scenario where WB is weak).  Plus, fuji is entirely dependent on OH himself and himself has to make sure that he is avoiding "sneak" attacks like kizaru tries to pull on "fuji's opponent(in your example of kizaru roaming around and the other 3 fighting)" and also random large aoe nukes from kaidou WB akainu and kuzan.

Kizaru should be faster in movement, yeah,but considering reactions and attack speeds, I would say he sits right in the same space as the others.Overall, I would say speed wise, the top tiers are pretty much in the same league with the possible exception of fuji who hasn't really shown enough to justify putting him up there with the other 6. He is the relative weak link(and is entirely dependent on OH himself) and the yonkous would naturally target the older, more known logia threats than fuji who they would be cautious about rather than worrying about 1 of the stronger ones coming from behind to attack them. So kizaru isn't going to be free with 1 yonkou coming after him while fuji would be left to catch up if he wants to let kizaru roam free and try to take a yonkou himself. If kizaru just tries to get away from a actual fight and run to be free, it is essentially 3 people(fuji, 1 yonkou and kizaru) playing run around while the other 4 actually fight.


TLDR- fuji is a weak link for the admirals because he is dependent of OH himself and every aoe attack is like a sneak attack on him. He should be relatively slower than the yonkous when it comes to movement and attack and hence he is the one going to be "left alone" while the 6 monsters go at each other.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 13, 2019)

Woodward said:


> *Admirals win this via outlast. Yonkos and Admirals are portrayed as equal power, it doesn't matter what Yonko fanboys or Admiral fanboys think, what matters is what Oda thinks. *
> 
> -Whitebeard would tire out and die because of his illness.
> -Big Mom would tier out because of her hunger; when she loses mass, she gets slaughtered.
> ...



Yeah Oda portrayal of Yonko and Admiral is so equal between them that he give two time the title of strongest individual to Yonkou and said nobody in one-to-one can beat them...


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## Woodward (Apr 13, 2019)

CrownedEagle said:


> Yeah Oda portrayal of Yonko and Admiral is so equal between them that he give two time the title of strongest individual to Yonkou and said nobody in one-to-one can beat them...



Strongest man is a title of physical strength, not fighting prowess. And Oda didn't say no one can beat them in one to one; if you're referring to Kaido, then that's mistranslation and Kaido lost 7 times.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 14, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> I may have accidentally left out addressing all of your points here because my thoughts put out as the reply are a bit of a mess. And I am trying to put my positioning over 1 of the scenarios in the same message. So feel free to point out if I missed anything.
> 
> Every one here has a large aoe except for BM I guess , so shooting and getting shot in the cross fire is pretty much a guarantee, so kizaru isn't doing anything "new" if going by the battlefield set to us.
> 
> ...



I don't really feel the need to harp on which yonkou fights who as i dont think it changes the outcome of the fight(admirals winning).

Fujitora still more then serves his role. If Kaidou wants to focus on Kizaru that gives Fuji a opening to attack kaidou and vice versa.

I think your severly underselling the advantage a 2v1 gives. That or you just think the admirals are weaker then i do.

Far as im concerned Whitebeard(Strongest Yonkou) still needs high diff to beat Fuji(weakest admiral). The gap between the yonkou and Admirals to me is small. Fuji is the weak link but his abilitys actually make him great in a team fight he has island level attack range and island range CoO. He can use his gravity to manipulate his surroundings and attack another yonkou even if he is on the other side of the island.

All it takes is a slight distraction for a admiral to do massive damage as shown in marineford and Fuji can use his gravity to restrain/off balance the other yonkou giving a higher chance for the other 3 admirals with better attack power to put in damage.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 14, 2019)

[QUOTE="Woodward, post: 60013763, member: 270352"*]Strongest man is a title of physical strength*, not fighting prowess. And Oda didn't say no one can beat them in one to one; if you're referring to Kaido, then that's mistranslation and Kaido lost 7 times.[/QUOTE]

No strongest man mean strongest man, there are no double meaning, Whitebeard was the strongest OP characters and yeah Oda did say that in one to one always beat on Kaidou, there are no mistranslation, Kaidou lost 7 time but nobody say that was in one to one or he was already achieve this title... facts is among the 5 Yonkou know, the facts is among the 5 Yonko show, two are already confirmed stronger than the six admiral show...


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## KBD (Apr 14, 2019)

The difference between top tiers and people on a first commander level is so massive that such a match up is a very one sided stomp. 

Apparently all the Admirals easily qualify for being a real top tier.


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## g4snake108 (Apr 14, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I don't really feel the need to harp on which yonkou fights who as i dont think it changes the outcome of the fight(admirals winning).
> 
> Fujitora still more then serves his role. If Kaidou wants to focus on Kizaru that gives Fuji a opening to attack kaidou and vice versa.
> 
> ...


Yeah I think the admirals are weaker than what you think they are. There are significant pointers at that- Sengoku crapping his pants and calling the entire elite of marines to fight 1 old guy who wasn't even in his best health condition just because he knows how strong and destructive he can be. Sengoku has ample knowledge about his 3 admirals, garp  ,shichibukai and WB's halth since he was spying on him too, so if they all are required to gather together to fight 1 yonkou, there would be a reason.

Akainu(current) would be an exception as he is likely to be billed as the last opponent.For me, a healthy WB wrecks fuji in a similar fashion like luffy vs hody. Sure, fuji can hurt WB here and there, but he really isn't going to be anything more than a nuisance to WB.


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## Beast (Apr 14, 2019)

minimising casualties.


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## Woodward (Apr 14, 2019)

CrownedEagle said:


> [QUOTE="Woodward, post: 60013763, member: 270352"*]Strongest man is a title of physical strength*, not fighting prowess. And Oda didn't say no one can beat them in one to one; if you're referring to Kaido, then that's mistranslation and Kaido lost 7 times.



No strongest man mean strongest man, there are no double meaning, Whitebeard was the strongest OP characters and yeah Oda did say that in one to one always beat on Kaidou, there are no mistranslation, Kaidou lost 7 time but nobody say that was in one to one or he was already achieve this title... facts is among the 5 Yonkou know, the facts is among the 5 Yonko show, two are already confirmed stronger than the six admiral show...[/QUOTE]

The amount of misspelling and grammar errors is astonishing. 

-Strongest man = most physical strength. I accept your concession.

-Always bet on Kaido in one-on-one. It's a gamble. Get it?

Oda always put Admirals and Yonkos as equals. I'll take his words over yours.


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## Beast (Apr 14, 2019)

Guaranteed Luffy is gonna put down a Yonko before he tries an admiral. 
[HASHTAG]#justsayin[/HASHTAG]


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## CaptainCommander (Apr 14, 2019)

Luffy already slapped an admiral around before he got his ass handed to him by the Yonko

[HASHTAG]#justsayin[/HASHTAG]


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## Beast (Apr 14, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Luffy already slapped an admiral around before he got his ass handed to him by the Yonko
> 
> [HASHTAG]#justsayin[/HASHTAG]


Slapped around? 
You must have read a continuation of the fanmade Kata vs BB pirates. 
Which admiral was Luffy slapping around? 
Might just be interesting.


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## CaptainCommander (Apr 14, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Slapped around?
> You must have read a continuation of the fanmade Kata vs BB pirates.
> Which admiral was Luffy slapping around?
> Might just be interesting.



Sent Fugi back without even needing Gear 4.

Man is taking rep away the only means of reply you admiral wankers have when someone posts something you don't like. In that case I'll wear the neg rep like a badge of honour


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## YoungChief (Apr 14, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Guaranteed Luffy is gonna put down a Yonko before he tries an admiral.
> [HASHTAG]#justsayin[/HASHTAG]


Luffy put down Enel before he fought Lucci, that doesn't mean Lucci would beat Enel


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## Jin san (Apr 14, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Sent Fugi back without even needing Gear 4.



Chopper blocked big mom, Brook blitzed her, Nami took her main weapon and Jinbe blew her off the ship with a single hit. What's your point?


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## Beast (Apr 14, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Sent Fugi back without even needing Gear 4.
> 
> Man is taking rep away the only means of reply you admiral wankers have when someone posts something you don't like. In that case I'll wear the neg rep like a badge of honour


punch/ Slapped

I didn’t neg you bruh. I’ll give you my little rep if you want it.


YoungChief said:


> Luffy put down Enel before he fought Lucci, that doesn't mean Lucci would beat Enel


not sure how you could compare those two to Yonko and Admirals but coool.


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 14, 2019)

[/QUOTE]
The amount of misspelling and grammar errors is astonishing.

-Strongest man = most physical strength. I accept your concession.

-Always bet on Kaido in one-on-one. It's a gamble. Get it?

Oda always put Admirals and Yonkos as equals. I'll take his words over yours. [/QUOTE]

You can continue to write and re write it again,  it won't make it true, Oda doesn't care about your mental gymnastics or head canon... the facts is Whitebeard and Kaidou are the strongest OP characters by far via feats, hype and author words, no matter how much you wish to deny it, that won't make it false.


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## CaptainCommander (Apr 14, 2019)

@MasterBeast didn't say it was you. Least you had the nerve to reply.


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## Beast (Apr 14, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> @MasterBeast didn't say it was you. Least you had the nerve to reply.


Could be more clear before you make me look like a hater


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## Woodward (Apr 14, 2019)

The amount of misspelling and grammar errors is astonishing.

-Strongest man = most physical strength. I accept your concession.

-Always bet on Kaido in one-on-one. It's a gamble. Get it?

Oda always put Admirals and Yonkos as equals. I'll take his words over yours. [/QUOTE]

You can continue to write and re write it again,  it won't make it true, Oda doesn't care about your mental gymnastics or head canon... the facts is Whitebeard and Kaidou are the strongest OP characters by far via feats, hype and author words, no matter how much you wish to deny it, that won't make it false.[/QUOTE]

Concession accepted.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 14, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Yeah I think the admirals are weaker than what you think they are. There are significant pointers at that- Sengoku crapping his pants and calling the entire elite of marines to fight 1 old guy who wasn't even in his best health condition just because he knows how strong and destructive he can be. Sengoku has ample knowledge about his 3 admirals, garp  ,shichibukai and WB's halth since he was spying on him too, so if they all are required to gather together to fight 1 yonkou, there would be a reason.
> 
> Akainu(current) would be an exception as he is likely to be billed as the last opponent.For me, a healthy WB wrecks fuji in a similar fashion like luffy vs hody. Sure, fuji can hurt WB here and there, but he really isn't going to be anything more than a nuisance to WB.



Then there isnt much to argue unless you want to debate the strength of the admirals which should be more of a Ohara Library topic(not that we dont have them all the time already). 

If thats how you view there strength then of course Yonkou wins. Actually Kaidou solos if anything if the gap is that big XD.


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## YoungChief (Apr 15, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> not sure how you could compare those two to Yonko and Admirals but coool.


I'm saying that not every opponent luffy fights will necessarily be stronger than the last. Luffy might fight blackbeard before akainu, that doesn't mean akainu is stronger than blackbeard


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## Beast (Apr 15, 2019)

YoungChief said:


> I'm saying that not every opponent luffy fights will necessarily be stronger than the last. Luffy might fight blackbeard before akainu, that doesn't mean akainu is stronger than blackbeard


It’s due to circumstances especially with logia before Haki was presented properly. Smoker in LT EB wouldn’t lose to Enel, doesn’t mean he is stronger or weaker, just logia issues pre TS. Lucci was bigger challenge for Luffy than Enel. Island to island anyone Luffy fights stronger opponents. So yes, if BB goes down around raftal and Akainu faces Luffy 1v1 as the last battle after becoming the PK, than yes I do think he will be stronger than BB. 

Top tiers arent even comparable to higher higher tiers like Marco and Kata let alone pre TS mid tiers like Enel and Lucci. I’m a true believer that even the weakest top tier BM/ Ben/ Fuji would still give high mid/ low high diff to say the strongest Top tier Kaidou/ Dragon/ Akainu, depending on the match ups.


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## g4snake108 (Apr 15, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Then there isnt much to argue unless you want to debate the strength of the admirals which should be more of a Ohara Library topic(not that we dont have them all the time already).
> 
> If thats how you view there strength then of course Yonkou wins. Actually Kaidou solos if anything if the gap is that big XD.


Nope, that's a tiring trope to state x is stronger, weaker by this much when we haven't seen the full strength of either. But I am only pointing to hints Oda has given that state why the yonkous are bigger and badder- luffy saying he is not going to run from enemies anymore and going to take fuji head on(even if he would have lost crappily) but still running away from BM, sengoku's respect for WB and assembly of everyone to fight 1 yonkou, the marines hesitance to just go with 3 admirals and Garp in the yonkou teritory and bring down one of them once and for all, akainu and kizaru/aokiji not actively trying to take on shanks' crew too after WB's death etc etc..


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## Dunno (Apr 15, 2019)

CrownedEagle said:


> You can continue to write and re write it again,  it won't make it true, Oda doesn't care about your mental gymnastics or head canon... the facts is Whitebeard and Kaidou are the strongest OP characters by far via feats, hype and author words, no matter how much you wish to deny it, that won't make it false.



Oda wrote that Whitebeard was the strongest man in the world. He also wrote that people say that you should always bet on Kaido. Whitebeard was canonically the WSM. Kaido is only canonically known as the WSC. 



Woodward said:


> The amount of misspelling and grammar errors is astonishing.
> 
> -Strongest man = most physical strength. I accept your concession.
> 
> ...



Strength in One Piece always refers to overall combat ability. The stronger person is the one who is better at winning fights. Luffy regularly states that he needs to become stronger, and that means that he wants to be able to beat people he couldn't previously beat, not that he needs to be able to bench more.


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## Steven (Apr 15, 2019)

The amount of misspelling and grammar errors is astonishing.

-Strongest man = most physical strength. I accept your concession.

-Always bet on Kaido in one-on-one. It's a gamble. Get it?

Oda always put Admirals and Yonkos as equals. I'll take his words over yours. [/QUOTE]

You can continue to write and re write it again,  it won't make it true, Oda doesn't care about your mental gymnastics or head canon... the facts is Whitebeard and Kaidou are the strongest OP characters by far via feats, hype and author words, no matter how much you wish to deny it, that won't make it false.[/QUOTE]

Roger is still the Number 1


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## Woodward (Apr 16, 2019)

YoungChief said:


> Strength in One Piece always refers to overall combat ability. The stronger person is the one who is better at winning fights. Luffy regularly states that he needs to become stronger, and that means that he wants to be able to beat people he couldn't previously beat, not that he needs to be able to bench more.



You're misunderstanding the context here. When Oda referred to Whitebeard as ''strongest man'', he meant his physical strength, since no man could physically match his strength. Same thing refers to Kaido, with man replaced by creature instead. We in the real world have world strongest man tournaments; the winner becomes strongest in sense of sheer strength, not fighting prowess, that goes to martial artists. WB and Kaido were matched by themselves, Shanks and BM and the Admirals as far as fighting prowess; if they were strongest characters, how could they be comparable to others weaker than them? Makes no sense. Thus, the term ''strongest'' must mean their physical strength only, not their fighting prowess.


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## YoungChief (Apr 16, 2019)

I didn't say that wtf lol


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## cry77 (Apr 20, 2019)

Woodward said:


> You're misunderstanding the context here. When Oda referred to Whitebeard as ''strongest man'', he meant his physical strength, since no man could physically match his strength. Same thing refers to Kaido, with man replaced by creature instead. We in the real world have world strongest man tournaments; the winner becomes strongest in sense of sheer strength, not fighting prowess, that goes to martial artists. WB and Kaido were matched by themselves, Shanks and BM and the Admirals as far as fighting prowess; if they were strongest characters, how could they be comparable to others weaker than them? Makes no sense. Thus, the term ''strongest'' must mean their physical strength only, not their fighting prowess.


WB isnt WSM because he benches more than other guys  
He was WSM because he was the number 1 combatant.

Well SOMEONE has to be the strongest right? No one said WB, Kaido, BM,Shanks and the admirals werent close, but even then, SOMEONE will logically be slightly superior. Which is WB in this case.


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## MO (Apr 20, 2019)

making it prime whitebeard and that would be more interesting but yeah the admirals win for now.


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## Woodward (Apr 20, 2019)

cry77 said:


> WB isnt WSM because he benches more than other guys
> He was WSM because he was the number 1 combatant.
> 
> Well SOMEONE has to be the strongest right? No one said WB, Kaido, BM,Shanks and the admirals werent close, but even then, SOMEONE will logically be slightly superior. Which is WB in this case.



WB is the strongest because he displayed the most physical feats, not his prowess. When you're the strongest in prowess, it means no one can match you, yet WB was matched by the Yonkos and Admirals.


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## Dunno (Apr 20, 2019)

Woodward said:


> WB is the strongest because he displayed the most physical feats, not his prowess. When you're the strongest in prowess, it means no one can match you, yet WB was matched by the Yonkos and Admirals.


Every single time anyone has referred to strength in One Piece, they have referred to overall combat ability. Whitebeard was the best at beating people in fights, that's it.


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## cry77 (Apr 21, 2019)

Woodward said:


> WB is the strongest because he displayed the most physical feats, not his prowess. When you're the strongest in prowess, it means no one can match you, yet WB was matched by the Yonkos and Admirals.


You're making stuff up. WB can be the strongest in prowess but still be temporarily matched by close competition. Also keep in mind that all of WB's feats are from after he was stabbed through the gut. Even then Sengoku shat his pants. 

Also WB didnt even display the biggest physical feat, I believe that honor goes to Jozu with his Iceberg or Garp with his massive chain.


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## Sayonara (Apr 21, 2019)

Overall strength wise even with 4 on 3 I dont think its absurd to think that these 3 yonkou could beat these 4 admirals together.

But when you do fights like this you got to consider other factors. The admirals bar Fuji know each other extremely well and can be expected to have excellent team work. On opposite side these 3 yonkou are anything but a team , big egos , I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try help each other at all.

At this level any distraction could prove fatal so teamwork could be the deciding factor.


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## Woodward (Apr 21, 2019)

cry77 said:


> You're making stuff up. WB can be the strongest in prowess but still be temporarily matched by close competition. Also keep in mind that all of WB's feats are from after he was stabbed through the gut. Even then Sengoku shat his pants.
> 
> Also WB didnt even display the biggest physical feat, I believe that honor goes to Jozu with his Iceberg or Garp with his massive chain.



When you're the strongest, no one is able to match you. Don't know what's hard about basic English. Being stabbed in the gut didn't affect him, so please don't bullshit.

Yeah, he did. Stopping a ship that dwarfs giants, punches that make earthquakes etc. Being strongest means being most physically capable; if Oda meant in prowess, he would have just said most powerful man.


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## Dunno (Apr 21, 2019)

Woodward said:


> When you're the strongest, no one is able to match you. Don't know what's hard about basic English. Being stabbed in the gut didn't affect him, so please don't bullshit.
> 
> Yeah, he did. Stopping a ship that dwarfs giants, punches that make earthquakes etc. Being strongest means being most physically capable; if Oda meant in prowess, he would have just said most powerful man.


Have you even read the manga? When any character ever refers to how good a character is at winning fights, they word they use is strength. Literally never has it been used to refer to physical strength.


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## Blade (May 1, 2019)

whitebeard is that strong


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## trance (May 1, 2019)

>a god tier df that he relies on for battles which includes his greatest feat of tying against roger
>nah guys wb definitely got the title for being able to lift more than anyone else


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## nmwn93 (May 10, 2019)

The downplaying on big mom is outrageous man. Anyhow, i go yonko both times


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## Hayumi (May 12, 2019)

Round 1: Admirals extreme diff 
Round 2: Yonko extreme diff


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## Santoryu (May 15, 2019)

the yonkou as per authorial intent.
a whitebeard that is not injured will smash and create literal distortions which shatter through their feeble defenses. big momma is the weak link on the yonkou side but even she can beat an admiral as narrative intent. if we consider the variables and abilities there is only one feasible conclusion

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gohara (May 25, 2019)

That yonkou team wins both of those match ups.  In portrayal the yonkou are superior individually, you can compare any character reactions to the yonkous' presence to that of the admirals and all of the yonkou's portrayal are superior.  The yonkou also have the most impressive abilities.  The characters with the most impressive defense thus far are the yonkou, the physically strongest characters thus far are the yonkou, the characters with the most impressive haki thus far are the yonkou.  Excluding speed the admirals aren't really superior to any of the yonkou thus far.

Marineford Whitebeard is still more than able to best an admiral individually.  Even if fleet admiral Akainu matches up on par with Big Mam Kaidou should be around the same league as 2 admirals.  A fully healthy old Whitebeard bests an admiral without a lot of difficulty and then teams up with Kaidou can match up on par with 2 admirals.


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## xmysticgohanx (May 27, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> the yonkou as per authorial intent.
> a whitebeard that is not injured will smash and create literal distortions which shatter through their feeble defenses. big momma is the weak link on the yonkou side but even she can beat an admiral as narrative intent. if we consider the variables and abilities there is only one feasible conclusion


 wheres the intent


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## Quipchaque (May 27, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> wheres the intent



In the fact that 2 of them have world's strongest titles, the other is rival to 1 world's strongest and 1 future world's strongest+benchmark of the main chara while the last one can solo his own whole Crew, fought with Prime Garp, scared off Roger and to this day is indicated as invulnerable. Meanwhile anyone admiral-tier gets bullied by first mates and weaker.


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## Edogawa (Jun 2, 2019)

Admirals win low difficulty. Literally.

Akainu vs Whitebeard ends in either a stalemate or Akainu wins.

It's implied Kizaru can stop both Kaido and Big Mom by himself.


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## Gotenks92 (Jun 10, 2019)

First fight: a tie
Second fight: yonko extreme diff


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## Goodboy (Jun 11, 2019)

Admirals win it...

Reactions: Like 1


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