# War Arc Kakashi vs Alive Itachi



## Omote (Aug 11, 2017)

Location: Sannin Deadlock
Mindset: IC
Knowledge: Everything they know about each other from the Manga

Will Kamui GG prevail, or will the character Kishimoto jerks off prove to have more than enough power to stomp the copy ninja?

Round 2: Edo Itachi


Restrictions: Kishi no Jutsu


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## The_Conqueror (Aug 11, 2017)

If there is kishi no jutsu

Kakashi will forget he even has kamui
Kakashi will be in genjutsu from the very beginning
Itachi will have new ability to freeze time
Or Sth like that 


If kishi no jutsu is off them it can go either way. Even if itachi is a threat his bunshin use should limit  kamui gg 

Not that kakashi can wrap itachis susanoo without gathering enough chakra/Bijju chakra

So I would lean towards itachi

Reactions: Like 1


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## Omote (Aug 11, 2017)

Restricted Kishi no Jutsu


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2017)

Still give it to itachi

Hes smarter or at least as smart, hes faster,  has way better jutsu speed which by extension makes his clone feints easier to pull off than kakashis, itachi has genjutsu over kakashi like tsukuyomi, amaterasu gg is just as likely as kamui gg, susanoo also kinda walls kakashi.

The way i see it...Only way kakashi can beat itachi is if we are talking DMS which is a complete stomp, or if both are restricted to 3T which is a lot closer 50/50 imo.


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## Serene Grace (Aug 11, 2017)

Susanoo probably rapes tbh, Kakashi lacks a sufficient defense to counter it.

Though outside of that its 50/50 tbh.

Itachis clone feints are in fact amazing, as made evident when he clone feinted both  and Sasuke. Though we must remember on the two occasions Itachi and Kakashi fought:

1.  2. *

*, I'd say Itachi and Kakashi are close, but Itachi edges it out, his jutsu execution speed was so amazing and can be performed so fast that, even the sharingan that increases one's perception as well as granting them pre-cog basically giving him a slowed down version of the person he's fighting as made evident in the Sasuke vs naruto fight as well as other fights throughout the manga()()(3)(), had trouble keeping up with his movement Sharingan, and this was while it was utilized by extremely skilled users()-()(3)-()(5).

Genjustu(bar Tsukuyomi of course) wouldn't be a problem since this is war arc Kakashi were referring to, that was able to counter Obito's genjustu completely, same Obito who has possibly one of the greatest genjustu feats in the manga as he was able to not only control a perfect jin with conventional genjustu, but he was also  Let's not forget that  In terms of speed Itachi edges it out his feats are superior, but not to a laughable extent that people try to portray. Kakashi was able to dodge Kakuzu's Fuuton, and  this was whilst he was tired and worn out, then we get a .

In CQC I'd say there about even. Kakashi was already shown to compete with Itachi in CQC in there second fight(though this was a clone) ()(). Though I wouldn't say its too far fetched to think that Kakashi can gain some ground on Itachi. He can do this by means of streaming his Raikiri through his weapons/kunai's to improve penetrating force and quality()()

Ms ninjutsu is where this gets interesting. It depends on who edges this category that would win the matchup imo, both have ridiculously powerful Ms techs, hence the main reason why I think this battle can go either way.

alright that's two paragraphs, I'm done for the day

Reactions: Like 3 | Lewd 1


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## Trojan (Aug 11, 2017)

Kakashi probably knows that itachi is a threat. So, he will go to Kamui GG right of the bat and ends the battle there.

Reactions: Like 3


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Kakashi probably knows that itachi is a threat. So, he will go to Kamui GG right of the bat and ends the battle there.


Yata gg


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## Trojan (Aug 11, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Yata gg


Yata will be like Gedu-dama. It will simply get teleported. 

But either way, Kamui is too fast, it hits GM before it got teleported. Too bad for itachi... U_U


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Yata will be like Gedu-dama. It will simply get teleported.


Yata reflects everything that touches it tho 

Surely a kamui wormhole will be no exception to a spirit weapon

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 11, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Yata reflects everything that touches it tho
> 
> Surely a kamui wormhole will be no exception to a spirit weapon



So Yata will reflect Kamui right back at Kakashi?

Nothing has changed then, still and always Kamui GG

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Ultrafragor (Aug 11, 2017)

Iirc, yata mirror changes the chakra nature on its surface to match the incoming attack and block it. However, that would only apply to basic elemental jutsu

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 11, 2017)

I say it's near 50/50.

Susanoo wouldn't make much of a difference against an opponent like Kakashi though. it's kinda like a bad matchup.

First, he has Kamui which gives no fucks about durability, which is Susanoo's claim to fame. Then you have Kakashi who clone feinted Itachi twice already, and 2 Rinnegan paths.

Susanoo's weakness is the unprotected bottom as Gaara and Madara demonstrated.Kakashi could very well bypass Susanoo with a raiton Kunai wielding Raiton feint like he did to Pain here.


Outside of that they are close but I still give the edge Kakashi in a non MS battle which is probably how they will start out the battle, due to the superior variety of Jutsu he possesses.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Itachі (Aug 11, 2017)

This could go either way, both are very skilled. If the fight goes on for a long time then I favour Kakashi.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Monty Burns (Aug 11, 2017)

War arc Kakashi can beat Itachi but not ET Itachi. I'd say Kakashi has around 5-6 decent shots with using Kamui, maybe 7. He warped a Raiton kunai, about to warp Gedo statues head (which is quite large), Naruto's Rasengan, and then Naruto's clone. He did this after fighting the Jins and using Raikiri a few times. So if he starts out fresh, stamina/kamui usage won't be a huge issue.

Kakashi kept up with Itachi on 2 occasions, has knowledge on Tsukyomi so he'll likely keep his range and use clones to avoid it, can counter Amaterasu (by seeing MS build up with his Sharingan) and use clones. If Kakashi gets hit, he can warp with Kamui leaving the flames behind (basically what Obito did). He has no firepower to counter to Susanoo, though if he uses his Doton to bury a Raiton clone underground and grab Itachi the moment he walks above him, it'll paralyse Itachi temporarily which will hurt his already tired self (as he gets exhausted from overusing his MS). If he gets cornered by Susanoo, warping with Kamui is always an option. He can also warp behind him with Kamui as a blindside attack catching him off guard. 

It can go either way against living Itachi depending on how things pan out.


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## Trojan (Aug 11, 2017)

Kakashi can neither defeat "alive" itachi, nor can he defeat Edo itachi either. This should be fairly obvious...

Reactions: Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 11, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Kakashi can neither defeat "alive" itachi, nor can he defeat Edo itachi either. This should be fairly obvious...





Hussain said:


> Kakashi probably knows that itachi is a threat. So, he will go to Kamui GG right of the bat and ends the battle there.



Kamui GG is so great that it makes man go mad.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## hbcaptain (Aug 11, 2017)

Kakashi Kamui-ed Gedo arm before KCM Minato could see anything and Kakashi knows pretty well to any extent Itachi is a threat so Kamui gg, Itachi won't be able to see anything, Edo or not.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Aug 11, 2017)

Kakashi could counter Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi for sometime, but once Susanoo comes out the fight is over.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Bonly (Aug 11, 2017)

Itachi handseal speed is so fast that Sasuke with two Sharingan's couldn't even see him make the handseal to make a clone right in front of him so with speed like that along with shadow clones,exploding clones,crow clones, Katons, genjutsu, ect. it can help in creating opening which can give Itachi a few good shots in while on the otherhand Kakashi's a pretty good clone user himself and he has multiple good finishing moves with his Raiton along with some counters to Itachi's base arsenal so while close I tend to slightly favor Itachi when it comes to their base but that when things turn to Itachi's favor. Susanoo pretty much walls almost(if not everything) Kakashi can dish out while also being able to dish out damage that's gonna either end Kakashi or hurt him badly and then when you add in Ama and Tsu and Kakashi's chances aren't looking to good. Kamui isn't enough to alone to beat Itachi when he's fighting an uphill battle, Itachi got this in the bag more times then not.

Oh wait Kakashi has manga knowledge? Kakashi realizes that Itachi is a threat on Madara's lvl which in turn means Kakashi will no doubt use Kamui off the bat with the speed faster then 8th Gated Gai's movement which means that Itachi gets Kamui GG!

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## Hitachi Uchiha (Aug 11, 2017)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> Susanoo's weakness is the unprotected bottom as Gaara and Madara demonstrated.Kakashi could very well bypass Susanoo with a raiton Kunai wielding Raiton feint like he did to Pain here.





Monty Burns said:


> He has no firepower to counter to Susanoo, though if he uses his Doton to bury a Raiton clone underground and grab Itachi the moment he walks above him, it'll paralyse Itachi temporarily which will hurt his already tired self (as he gets exhausted from overusing his MS). If he gets cornered by Susanoo, warping with Kamui is always an option.



These are good counters to Susanoo, never thought of these. Guess he can give Itachi a good fight after all.


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## Gohara (Aug 11, 2017)

If the thread is including the illness then I give Itachi's character a slight edge but if it's not including the illness then Itachi's character wins with mid to high difficulty in my opinion.


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## Baroxio (Aug 11, 2017)

Crimson Flam3s said:


> Susanoo's weakness is the unprotected bottom as Gaara and Madara demonstrated.Kakashi could very well bypass Susanoo with a raiton Kunai wielding Raiton feint like he did to Pain here.


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 11, 2017)




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## Baroxio (Aug 11, 2017)

Do I really need to highlight the purpose of my post or are you just trolling?


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 11, 2017)

Baroxio said:


> Do I really need to highlight the purpose of my post or are you just trolling?



Oh please do enlighten me on how Itachi is going to avoid a *Raiton Kunai* wielding *Raiton clone, *which by the way can revert back to electricity whenever the user pleases?

By your own scan, Itachi's first instinct was to proceed to engage him in CQC, whether the clone succeeds in injuring/killing Itachi or gets destroyed, it doesn't matter, Itachi would be screwed afterwards.


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## Baroxio (Aug 11, 2017)

The purpose of my scan was to show that an underground attack would be ineffective, since a 30% Shouten Clone of Itachi already easily reacted to a similar setup.

As for attacking the clone and having it disperse into lightning, there's several things wrong with the idea that it will certainly catch Itachi. First and foremost, there's a delay between when the clone is damaged and when the clone explodes into Lightning. This is significant. We've already seen on two separate occasions from Kakashi himself, that the Sharingan is able to predict an exploding bunshin. Coupled with the already noticeable delay with the technique, it's not difficult to say that Itachi can simply move back about 5 feet, since the bunshin's area of effect is actually quite small.



Secondly, why would Itachi even need to be using Susano against Kakashi at all, much less keeping it up constantly for Kakashi to come up with such a scheme? The most that Itachi would need Susano for is MAYBE blocking Kamui's Line of Sight/Line of Effect. Every other technique Kakashi throws at him, he can just avoid. 

A much stronger defense against Kakashi here, is the use of clones. Not only do Karasu Bunshin specifically cost less than Kage Bunshin, but Kakashi's Raiton Bunshin are specifically stated to cost an inordinate amount of his chakra. As such, Itachi will eventually win out in the clone wars. On top of this, Itachi can switch places with a bunshin faster than Eternal Magenkyou Sharingan and Perfect Sage Senses can register, so Kakashi's chances of actually attacking the real Itachi are pretty much nil.

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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 11, 2017)

Baroxio said:


> The purpose of my scan was to show that an underground attack would be ineffective, since a 30% Shouten Clone of Itachi already easily reacted to a similar setup.



He reacted, and did absolutely nothing afterwards except get himself into a position where the raiton bunshin would be at an advantage. And what does 30% have anything to do here when it was stated the clone has the same physical abilities as the real Itachu?



> As for attacking the clone and having it disperse into lightning, there's several things wrong with the idea that it will certainly catch Itachi. First and foremost, there's a delay between when the clone is damaged and when the clone explodes into Lightning. This is significant. We've already seen on two separate occasions from Kakashi himself, that the Sharingan is able to predict an exploding bunshin. Coupled with the already noticeable delay with the technique, it's not difficult to say that Itachi can simply move back about 5 feet, since the bunshin's area of effect is actually quite small.



We don't know if Kakashi knew it was an exploding bunshin or not. Even if he did we don't know if it's thanks to the sharingan. We do know he was hidden under the water the whole time observing the whole scene, so that's incorrect. Specially when we take into account that the sharingan can't distinguish clones from the real one and that's a fact.

Lastly, there is no delay. Enemies don't know that it's a bunshin until it releases electricity. Itachi wouldn't know after injuring it in CQC(That's if he can) and at that point he would be screwed.




> Secondly, *why would Itachi even need to be using Susano against Kakashi at all*, much less keeping it up constantly for Kakashi to come up with such a scheme? The most that Itachi would need Susano for is MAYBE blocking Kamui's Line of Sight/Line of Effect. Every other technique Kakashi throws at him, he can just avoid. A much stronger defense against Kakashi here, is the use of clones. Not only do Karasu Bunshin specifically cost less than Kage Bunshin, but Kakashi's Raiton Bunshin are specifically stated to cost an inordinate amount of his chakra. As such, Itachi will eventually win out in the clone wars. On top of this, Itachi can switch places with a bunshin faster than Eternal Magenkyou Sharingan and Perfect Sage Senses can register, so Kakashi's chances of actually attacking the real Itachi are pretty much nil.



That's beside the point. People here said that once Susanoo comes out, Kakashi would be totally screwed and that's what I addressed with my post. Not if and when he would use it.

You are turning this into a battle scenario which is not something I am going to get into as I already posted my opinion on the match, which you are free to read above.

Finally, Kakashi has bunshin feinted Itachi both times that they encountered each other so him not having a chance of feinting him once more is just as absurd as thinking that Itachi wouldn't have a chance to do the same.


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## Monty Burns (Aug 11, 2017)

The Raiton clone and Itachi don't need to engage in CQC. Kakashi can either grab Itachi's ankles and electrocute him that way, or pop out from underground and dispatch the clone straight away.

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## Charmed (Aug 11, 2017)

Itachi takes it.
Kakashi never impressed me that much.

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## Turrin (Aug 12, 2017)

Kakashi and Itachi's basic arsenal's are around the same level, but Itachi has 2 Mangekyo Techniques like Kamui in Tsukuyomi + Amaterasu, on top of that he has Susano'o which is a superior Mangekyo Technique to Kamui, and has an even further triumph in Izanami beyond that. Itachi is simply the better Shinobi. Can Kakashi win with a well place Kamui, sure, but Itachi can win with a well placed Tskuyomi or Amaterasu, and if he pulls out Susano'o Kakashi will be overwhelmed and defeated within mere moments considering how he needed to immediately resort to Kamui to defend himself from Sasuke's Stage 3 Susano'o first attack. Itachi is far above Kakashi.

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## Eliyua23 (Aug 12, 2017)

Itachi is above Kakashi for the fact he has two powerful MS that can create Susanoo , and unlike Obito, Kakashi doesn't have Senju Cells where he can spam Kamui as a defensive or offensive measure now if he could spam MS like Obito could or if he had two MS he would have Kamui on top of Susanoo which to me would put him above Itachi


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 13, 2017)

Itachi's got more power behind his MS, but it'll be hard for him to actually make the hits count, Kakashi already knows about this trinity but their fight isn't going to start with MS, it'll go the way their previous fights start (where they feel each other out) and I find it much harder for Kakashi to be hit with Tsukuyomi so it really comes down to Amaterasu vs. Kamui, I believe. Susano'o is a circumstantial technique use (e.g. Itachi would bring it out in response to his opponent, Kakashi doesn't have anything on the scale of Kirin, so I doubt we'll see it). However, I can see Itachi opting to use Amaterasu, especially since Kakashi played out his genjutsu back when it was Shouten, so he'll likely assume it isn't worth the chakra-use to use it against Kakashi.

I see both of them as equals through and through, with Itachi having an edge with genjutsu and Kakashi having the edge in ninjutsu, when it comes to MS, I do believe it comes down Amaterasu vs. Kamui, despite Itachi having a superior arsenal. The mechanics of the match also play a huge role into the battle.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BigHomie89 (Aug 28, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Still give it to itachi
> 
> Hes smarter or at least as smart, hes faster,  has way better jutsu speed which by extension makes his clone feints easier to pull off than kakashis, itachi has genjutsu over kakashi like tsukuyomi, amaterasu gg is just as likely as kamui gg, susanoo also kinda walls kakashi.
> 
> The way i see it...Only way kakashi can beat itachi is if we are talking DMS which is a complete stomp, or if both are restricted to 3T which is a lot closer 50/50 imo.



I disagree, war arc kakashi lacks the weakness he had when he fought itachi. That weakness was low to average chakra reserves low the first time average the second time. But war arc kakashi has about triple the chakra he had the second time he fought itachi. And he knows a counter to the genjutsu which is to use a clone like he did to pain. The problem was when he fought pain it used alot of his chakra because his chakra was lower. But war arc kakashi has over double the chakra the kakashi that fought pain had. When he fought itachi he couldnt use kamui once He used one clone one earth jutsu and on lightning blade. 

Going into war arc kakashi used kamui 5 times lighting blade 8 times and like 5 other jutsu this is not counting the tailed beast chakra he got from kurama. 

     Overall I think itachi would win normally solely due to susano the totsuka blade and yata mirror. But in a three tomo fight kakashi would win 70/30 or 80/20.


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## Shazam (Aug 28, 2019)

Kakashi struggles enough with Zabuza and Haku


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## Charmed (Aug 28, 2019)

Itachi wins, easy.


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 28, 2019)

Ignoring the fact you necroed a 2 year old thread...



BigHomie89 said:


> war arc kakashi lacks the weakness he had when he fought itachi


No he doesnt really

Hes still slower, he still lacks a counter to Genjutsu, hes not dealing with Itachis clone feints that have hoodwinked Rinnegan Shared vision and Perfect Sages, and hes not reliably following Itachis Jutsu speed either

Not to mention the slew of other issues in Amaterasu and Susanoo that Kakashi is screwed over irreparably by


BigHomie89 said:


> That weakness was low to average chakra reserves low the first time average the second time.


No it wasnt

Stamina wasnt kakashis downfall in either of those fights

And this fight will be over LONG before stamina becomes a factor anyway


BigHomie89 said:


> war arc kakashi has about triple the chakra he had the second time he fought itachi


Where are you getting this number?

Please dont tell me its this...Where kakashi explicitly states its KURAMA AND NARUTO that gave him triple his normal War arc levels...And your falsely attributing that to flat out improvement on Kakashis part...


BigHomie89 said:


> And he knows a counter to the genjutsu which is to use a clone like he did to pain


*Link Removed* *Link Removed*

Especially not with kakashis sub par reserves and the frequency that itachi can spam genjutsu


BigHomie89 said:


> Overall I think itachi would win normally solely due to susano the totsuka blade and yata mirror. But in a three tomo fight kakashi would win 70/30 or 80/20.


I agree that a 3T fight is way more in kakashis favor tho


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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 28, 2019)

Itachi wins bcuz he drinks Sprite


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 28, 2019)

Their feinting is equatable, Kakashi hid from, blindsided and feinted members of pain several times leaving nagato a paranoid case by the end of it, itachi feinted the likes of SM Kabuto in a cave leaving him a paranoid case by the end of it.

Given their styles this’ll be a feint contest and the winner is probably the one who lands the only blow on the original.

Hard to say which will take the chance first, but I’m confident Kamui is easier to kill with then any of Itachi’s techs which are range restricted and/or inferior (Kamui negs Amaterasu by warping it off the body along with Itachi’s Susano attacks which are warped defensively), so I’d side with him getting the mortal nail sized head Kamui at the very east to finish.

A lot easier to pull off considering itachi has no knowledge on it whatsoever, and is far less likely to battle appropriate to avoiding it entirely.

If it were switched, and itachi knew more about Kakashi then Kakashi knew about him I’d give itachi the win. That’s not the case, however. Kakashi knows more about Itachi, and his trump card is a really tough surprise to deal with for anyone.

It’s likely itachi eventually locates Kakashi and  stands to attack him with Susano out just to be safe, and could easily garner the hole in his brain from Kamui in the process of attempting so, unknowingly and ironically.

Whether Kakashi feints him first or Itachi finds Kakashi with a feint the reality is simple, Kakashi is more equip to win most of those simulated last exchanges between the originals with a Kamui that Itachi doesn’t know about, then itachi is to win with mostly inferior MS kill options that Kakashi is aware about and can counter with his superior dojutsu defensively.


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## Phenomenon (Aug 28, 2019)

Itachi can still put him in Tsukuyomi which he can't counter it's not as if Itachi can't clone feint him to initiate this sequence, He also has Amaterasu which Kakashi will attempt to warp away immediately leaving him open to clones provided he hasn't made some himself in advance.

It's a closer fight than Oro at least but still give it to Itachi more times than not.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 28, 2019)

Kamui gg. 
Itachi has fast hand seal speed and sasuke failed to notice it but Kakashi did back in p1 even with 1 sharingan and avoided his feint. So just because sasuke couldn't with his 2 sharingan doesn't mean Kakashi can't. 
Itachi is overall more powerful but kamui is his worst nightmare. Kamui gives no fucks about susanoo or anything will straight up bypass it and warp his ass. 
So it's kamui or bust for Kakashi and that happening is more possible than not.


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## Ultrafragor (Aug 28, 2019)

THREAD NECROMANCY!

THREAD NECROMANCY!


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## Autumn McJavabean (Aug 29, 2019)

I'm not sure I see Kakashi winning this. Itachi was ANBU and Akatsuki for a reason, he soloed Orochimaru, he could have soloed Sasuke if he had wanted too, and he can solo Kakashi.

Second round is a roflstomp.


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## Architect (Aug 29, 2019)

They are more or less the same, except Kakashi's ninjutsu beats Itachi's,  he has more chakra and has better speed and intelligence feats and hype.
And his MS technique beats Itachi's.
Kamui vs Amaterasu: Kamui's distance depends only on Kakashi vision, while Amaterasu spawns at short range then flies as projectile.
Kamui vs Susanoo: Kakashi opens portal inside of Susanoo.
Tsukuyomi: works only at short range.


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## Architect (Aug 29, 2019)

Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Itachi has fast hand seal speed and sasuke failed to notice


genjutsu only sequence


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## Sufex (Aug 29, 2019)

Architect said:


> genjutsu only sequence


He did it infront of kabuto


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## Architect (Aug 29, 2019)

Sufex said:


> He did it infront of kabuto


which instqnce you are referring to?


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 29, 2019)

Architect said:


> genjutsu only sequence


He did it during the shuriken exchange too iirc.
Or was it anime?


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## Architect (Aug 29, 2019)

Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> He did it during the shuriken exchange too iirc.
> Or was it anime?


this happened in manga too, but if you look at it carefully, you'll see it happened in genjutsu


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 29, 2019)

Doton underground and Kamui still hard counters Susanoo's defenses.


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## MaruUchiha (Aug 29, 2019)

Kamui gg


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## Tri (Aug 29, 2019)

Once Itachi pulls out MS Kakashi’s basically at his whim as he’s walled off by Susano’o and cannot engage in close quarters with Itachi because of it, Tsukuyomi is a ever prevalent threat that Kakashi’s going to have constantly looming over him, and he cannot react to Amaterasu so add this to Itachi’s superior speed, hand sign speed, which Kakashi won’t be able to keep up with, and feinting ability Kakashi is flat out outclassed here and gets overwhelmed by Itachi who takes the win here.


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 29, 2019)

Architect said:


> this happened in manga too, but if you look at it carefully, you'll see it happened in genjutsu


Could be.... I don't remember that fight very well.


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## MaruUchiha (Aug 29, 2019)

Bonly said:


> Itachi handseal speed is so fast that Sasuke with two Sharingan's couldn't even see him make the handseal to make a clone right in front of him so with speed like that along with shadow clones,exploding clones,crow clones, Katons, genjutsu, ect. it can help in creating opening which can give Itachi a few good shots in while on the otherhand Kakashi's a pretty good clone user himself and he has multiple good finishing moves with his Raiton along with some counters to Itachi's base arsenal so while close I tend to slightly favor Itachi when it comes to their base but that when things turn to Itachi's favor. Susanoo pretty much walls almost(if not everything) Kakashi can dish out while also being able to dish out damage that's gonna either end Kakashi or hurt him badly and then when you add in Ama and Tsu and Kakashi's chances aren't looking to good. Kamui isn't enough to alone to beat Itachi when he's fighting an uphill battle, Itachi got this in the bag more times then not.





Tri said:


> Once Itachi pulls out MS Kakashi’s basically at his whim as he’s walled off by Susano’o and cannot engage in close quarters with Itachi because of it, Tsukuyomi is a ever prevalent threat that Kakashi’s going to have constantly looming over him, and he cannot react to Amaterasu so add this to Itachi’s superior speed, hand sign speed, which Kakashi won’t be able to keep up with, and feinting ability Kakashi is flat out outclassed here and gets overwhelmed by Itachi who takes the win here.


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## Tri (Aug 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


>


Hello, Maru! I see you have quoted my post (in attempt to get my attention I assume). I saw your posts in many threads and it seems you are in dire need of debating lessons. Thankfully for you I am free for a majority of these followings weekends although if that does not fit in your schedule then I can adjust my calendar accordingly. Just hit me up whenever you have the time!


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## MaruUchiha (Aug 29, 2019)

Tri said:


> Hello, Maru! I see you have quoted my post (in attempt to get my attention I assume). I saw your posts in many threads and it seems you are in dire need of debating lessons. Thankfully for you I am free for a majority of these followings weekends although if that does not fit in your schedule then I can adjust my calendar accordingly. Just hit me up whenever you have the time!


Sorry, not interested in your lewdery

Reactions: Like 1


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


>



Just more of the usual "Susanoo walls Kakashi" nonsense while ignoring that Doton feints and Kamui hard counter Itachi's version of Susanoo

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## Baroxio (Aug 29, 2019)

I really don't know what you think Doton feints are going to accomplish. I've already shown how Itachi has easily reacted to and countered underground assaults and Sharingan can explicitly detect things hidden underground.


As for Kamui vs Susano, I wager it's in Susano's favor, actually. Kamui stops as soon as it hits something. AFAICT, it's never been made "inside" of something tangible before. In other words, it's likely to stop right at the edge of Susano and attempt to pull in whatever is close by there. However, Kakashi explicitly mentions that without Naruto's Kyuubi chakra, he's not capable of using it to absorb large objects. So if it stops at the edge, and he can't absorb a large enough chunk, it's not likely to reach all the way to Itachi.

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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 29, 2019)

"Doton feints beat Susanoo and chakra sight"

"Kakashi is totally capable of breaking LoS against someone with better speed, reactions and feint game than him before his opponent blitzes him with 1 of 2 techniques faster than anything kakashis ever seen"

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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 29, 2019)

Baroxio said:


> I really don't know what you think Doton feints are going to accomplish. I've already shown how Itachi has easily reacted to and countered underground assaults and Sharingan can explicitly detect things hidden underground.



Itachi barely dodged early P2 Kakashi's underground assault, but that's irrelevant, all Kakashi needs to do is get close.

Sharingan can see chakra, and Kakashi's body is not made out of pure chakra like a technique is.

Case in point, Itachi and the likes of Deva Path not noticing anything until the last second, the later being an inch away from getting stabbed.

If what you are saying was true, then Itachi would have seen that attack way before Kakashi got close enough to tango in a Taijutsu bout with him.

Kakashi can easily send a Raiton clone to detonate or attempt an assasination up Susanoo's opening, and worst case scenario, Itachi is getting zapped either way.








> As for Kamui vs Susano, I wager it's in Susano's favor, actually. Kamui stops as soon as it hits something. AFAICT, it's never been made "inside" of something tangible before. In other words, it's likely to stop right at the edge of Susano and attempt to pull in whatever is close by there. However, Kakashi explicitly mentions that without Naruto's Kyuubi chakra, he's not capable of using it to absorb large objects. So if it stops at the edge, and he can't absorb a large enough chunk, it's not likely to reach all the way to Itachi.



Here is the problem with what you are saying. The issue with absorbing big objects is not their size, but their mass. The DB explicitly states that the greater the mass, the greater the chakra cost by Kamui.

Susanoo is not a solid object on the inside, so massive amounts of chakra are not required, and he already absorbed something bigger than it back in early shippuden, he in fact absorbed the explosion at it's epicenter.



Furthermore his feats in the WA show that chakra constructs do not impede him from locating the barrier anywhere he wants.



He was able to warp Bee perfectly while being inside of a chakra construct himself.

Every solid or non solid object warped by Kamui has been transported completely or almost complete, and not hindered by the fact that it's a solid object. He choose the *size* and *location* of the barrier, as the technique description and feats show, and he will simply do so to encompass Susanoo, or at least the area where the user is, just like it always has done.

Susanoo does not have the size or mass to prove impossible to warp, and even if it did, Kakashi can bypass the chakra construct just like he bypassed Naruto's Kuybi avatar.



WorldsStrongest said:


> "Doton feints beat Susanoo and chakra sight"
> 
> "Kakashi is totally capable of breaking LoS against someone with *better speed, reactions and feint game than him before his opponent blitzes him with 1 of 2 techniques faster than anything kakashis ever seen*"



I wonder what fanfic Kakashi vs Itachi fights you have been reading, because literally none of that has happened during both their encounters, with a weaker Kakashi needless to say.

If we are talking about 3T VS 3T:

Itachi gets outfeinted and techniques countered in both encounters
Their physical bout ends in a draw
No blitzing anywhere to be seen


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## Serene Grace (Aug 29, 2019)

Cherry said:


> Susanoo probably rapes tbh, Kakashi lacks a sufficient defense to counter it.
> 
> Though outside of that its 50/50 tbh.
> 
> ...


A lot of things can change in 2 years

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## Kisame (Aug 30, 2019)

Cherry said:


> A lot of things can change in 2 years


A change for the better.


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## Sapherosth (Aug 31, 2019)

Did Kakashi not say he cannot defeat Itachi 1 on 1 already?


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## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 31, 2019)

Sapherosth said:


> Did Kakashi not say he cannot defeat Itachi 1 on 1 already?


Did not say he can't defeat base jman even with backup???? 
But That one is still a debate.


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