# 7 Deadly Sins ( NNT ) vs 7 Shichibukai ( OP )



## Akira1993 (Jan 2, 2017)

The original shichibukai: Mihawk, Jinbei, Kuma, Crocodile, Doflamingo, Boa hancock, Gecko moriah

vs

The seven deadly sins: Meliodas, Escanor, Ban, Merlin, King, Diane, Gowther

Intel: None
Serious, but IC
Location: Marineford
Distance: 50m

Restriction: bfr for Merlin and Kuma
Escanor is permanently at his 11:30 am form and don't go higher since we don't yet how strong he is at his peak.
The captain is at the same state after his Resurrection.

Bonus game : Which group is more charismatic and enjoyable.


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## Adamant soul (Jan 2, 2017)

Well the bonus definitely goes to the sins, no question about it.

As for the fight, I will await responses from others more versed with the current sins and shichibukai before making a final judgement right now I am leaning towards the shichibukai.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## IdioticGamer (Jan 2, 2017)

Logia intangibility is a pain. Then again I wonder how Meliodas' full counter would handle them? Ban's immortality won't be useful against Crocodile, or maybe. it would allow him to heal. They certainly have the haxx to go against each other but I think DC wise Escanor and Meliodas really pushes the lead here.

Merlin vs Kuma means no BFR, although technically Merlin can do it better against them. King's calamity would be very useful here against anyone not Logia though. 

Siding with the Sins here either way.

And mistranslation on the 11:30 part apparently. Escanor when he shitstomped Estarossa was apparently only on 11:00 am form.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 2, 2017)

Meliodas' FC is pretty useful against Mihawk's energy slash, Kuma beam, sand attack, water attack, etc....


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 2, 2017)

What's stopping Merlin from simply putting everyone from team Warlords under a 23.5+GT perfect cube 

Gowthers blackout as well has a 3 mile radius and when amplified works on the likes of escanor...

Snatch and zero sign are a pain as well

Only one not having any great versatility is Diane. She's just a casual city leveler


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## Akira1993 (Jan 2, 2017)

RavenSupreme said:


> What's stopping Merlin from simply putting everyone from team Warlords under a 23.5+GT perfect cube
> 
> Gowthers blackout as well has a 3 mile radius and when amplified works on the likes of escanor...
> 
> ...


Not to mention King with his Disaster Magic, which will be a pain to deal with.
Nothing stop Merlin doing that, although it wouldn't be fun, but I guess only Mihawk can deal with her perfect cube physically, Kuma too since he can teleport himself outside rather easily, he can help his partner as well.


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## IdioticGamer (Jan 2, 2017)

Meliodas is gonna be done in by Boa though : D

And now imagining Kuma pushing or teleporting the Perfect Cube away. Although can he even do that? But yeah they can play keep away.

Gowther mind haxx should work, although I wonder if it can affect Logia users? Just generally curious. And can't it be resisted by willpower though? And yeah forgot about Ban's area of effect strength stealing. That kinda screws over OP.

I wonder if they can figure out OP's weakness and drop them on the ocean though. That's another GG. Would combo well if Gowther finds out how their minds work.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 2, 2017)

IdioticGamer said:


> Meliodas is gonna be done in by Boa though : D
> 
> And now imagining Kuma pushing or teleporting the Perfect Cube away. Although can he even do that? But yeah they can play keep away.
> 
> ...


Meliodas isn't even slightly interested into woman, except Elizabeth and her alone lol. ( any NNT reader know very well that Mel isn't actually the classic pervert who is attracted toward any beautiful female, but " his " woman ).
He would remain indifferent toward Boa Hancock, maintaining his legendary poker face, no matter the situation.
Same for Ban and Escanor.
Kuma can't push out the perfect cube, but can teleport himself outside of its range.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Jan 2, 2017)

What's stopping Gowther from Emotion raping the shit out of people that have emotional problems?



*Spoiler*: __ 



inbei, Kuma, Crocodile, Doflamingo, Boa hancock, Gecko moriah




 you know this people here..


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## Iwandesu (Jan 2, 2017)

RavenSupreme said:


> What's stopping Merlin from simply putting everyone from team Warlords under a 23.5+GT perfect cube


Mihawk cutting it like Paper?


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## Iwandesu (Jan 2, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> What's stopping Gowther from Emotion raping the shit out of people that have emotional problems?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait what ?
How the hell the bolded have emotonal problems?
Kuma doesnt even has a functional mind anymore


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## IdioticGamer (Jan 2, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Meliodas isn't even slightly interested into woman, except Elizabeth and her alone lol. ( any NNT reader know very well that Mel isn't actually the classic pervert who is attracted toward any beautiful female, but " his " woman ).
> He would remain indifferent toward Boa Hancock, maintaining his legendary poker face, no matter the situation.
> Same for Ban and Escanor.
> Kuma can't push out the perfect cube, but can teleport himself outside of its range.



Fair enough, forgot it only works if the target is affected by Boa and not just a pervert.

Only Escanor decides who he's in love with.
And that's probably himself and Merlin.

And the others too probably.



iwandesu said:


> Wait what ?
> How the hell the bolded have emotonal problems?
> Kuma doesnt even has a functional mind anymore



Willpower and strong memories also shook it off so.... That too


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## trance (Jan 2, 2017)

Team OP has the greater firepower (Mihawk) but the Sins have the greater (and harder to deal with) hax

Still, a single serious attack from Mihawk is sending anyone on the NnT side to an early grave and the rest of the Warlords are useful meatshields and have some nasty hax themselves


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## Akira1993 (Jan 2, 2017)

kyouko said:


> Team OP has the greater firepower (Mihawk) but the Sins have the greater (and harder to deal with) hax
> 
> Still, a single serious attack from Mihawk is sending anyone on the NnT side to an early grave and the rest of the Warlords are useful meatshields and have some nasty hax themselves


True that Mihawk can kill anyone in the NNT team except of course Ban ( for obvious reason ).
He is 84 GT whereas Meliodas and Escanor are only 23.5 GT, but luckily, they are slightly faster than him in close combat + his energy slash will get full countered if he decide to play at distance. He will not take down both Escanor and Mel that easily.
I guess it's safe for the Sins to destroy Mihawk via hax like Gowther's Invasion or Ban snatching his Sword.


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## Crackle (Jan 2, 2017)

Meliodas and Escanor solo.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 2, 2017)

Mihawk is here to prevent that they destroy the rest of the Shichibukai. Honestly, they really need a power like Gowther's Invasion to incapacitate him in order for Mel and Escanor to finish him off when he is in his dream, totally defenseless.


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## Crackle (Jan 2, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Mihawk is here to prevent that they destroy the rest of the Shichibukai.


Not if he gets oneshot and/or has his own attacks countered back at him


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## Akira1993 (Jan 2, 2017)

Crackle said:


> Not if he gets oneshot and/or has his own attacks countered back at him


He can decide to not use energy slash attack, going with raw physical power against Mel where he get surpassed in that category against him unfortunately, and it's coming from a Mel fan.


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## Crackle (Jan 2, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> He can decide to not use energy slash attack, going with raw physical power against Mel where he get surpassed in that category against him unfortunately, and it's coming from a Mel fan.


23 Gigatons>>>>>11 Megatons+


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## Akira1993 (Jan 2, 2017)

Crackle said:


> 23 Gigatons>>>>>11 Megatons+


He is easily 84 GT scaled from Chinjao to say the least for now, he is easily at Admiral level but unlike them, doesn't have their terrible versality and AOE + intangibility toward other verse which obviously doesn't have Haki


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## Crackle (Jan 2, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> He is easily 84 GT scaled from Chinjao to say the least for now, he is easily at Admiral level but unlike them, doesn't have their terrible versality and AOE + intangibility toward other verse which obviously doesn't have Haki


You're basing this off of a feta from a character in his prime who was defeated by a character who is atleast two ranks above him and is more powerful than him overall.


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## shade0180 (Jan 3, 2017)

@Nighty the Mighty @MusubiKazesaru


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## Seraphiel (Jan 3, 2017)

>basing it off a feta

wew lad cheese calcs op

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Iwandesu (Jan 3, 2017)

Crackle said:


> You're basing this off of a feta from a character in his prime who was defeated by a character who is atleast two ranks above him and is more powerful than him overall.


Chinjao did the continent splitting casually 
Admirals are way more into the food chain than prime chinjao ever hoped to be.


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## Crackle (Jan 3, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Chinjao did the continent splitting casually
> Admirals are way more into the food chain than prime chinjao ever hoped to be.


Based on what? We also have no solid proof Mihawk is even admiral level.


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## BreakFlame (Jan 3, 2017)

Since when can Mel reflect Mihawk's slash? It's a pure physical attack. He doesn't even use Haki.


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## BreakFlame (Jan 3, 2017)

Crackle said:


> Based on what? We also have no solid proof Mihawk is even admiral level.



He's even with Shanks, who could fight against Whitebeard, who made the admirals his bitch.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

haki also does not equalize to magic


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## Dellinger (Jan 3, 2017)

BreakFlame said:


> He's even with Shanks, who could fight against Whitebeard, who made the admirals his bitch.


WB never made any Admiral his bitch.


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## Blαck (Jan 3, 2017)

Crackle said:


> Based on what? We also have no solid proof Mihawk is even admiral level.


For being Shanks level


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## Crackle (Jan 3, 2017)

BreakFlame said:


> He's even with Shanks, who could fight against Whitebeard, who made the admirals his bitch.


He is not even with Shanks...that cannot be backed up. He was rivals with him for however teh fuck long ago that was and god knows where their power was at then. Even then. Garp was rivals with Gold Roger doesn't mean he's yonko level. If we go by other verses Ino is rivals with Sakura, Konohamaru is rivals with Naruto.

being rivals with someone means jack shit and we don't even know how Mihawk stacks up.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

Crackle said:


> He is not even with Shanks...that cannot be backed up. He was rivals with him for however teh fuck long ago that was and god knows where their power was at then. Even then. Garp was rivals with Gold Roger doesn't mean he's yonko level. If we go by other verses Ino is rivals with Sakura, Konohamaru is rivals with Naruto.
> 
> being rivals with someone means jack shit and we don't even know how Mihawk stacks up.


Shanks is a swordsman and Mihawk still has the title of worlds strongest swordsman, even when Shanks had 2 arms


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## The World (Jan 3, 2017)

Meliodas and Escanor rape

Only one that presents a problem is Mihawk


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

BreakFlame said:


> Since when can Mel reflect Mihawk's slash? It's a pure physical attack. He doesn't even use Haki.


Lol, I don't see any difference between this : 
and this : 
And guess what ? 


Yeah, Mel can deal with Mihawk's slash ( lol, even Toei think it is an energy based attack when they animated that scene ) with his Full Counter.

Reactions: Like 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Lol, I don't see any difference between this :
> and this :
> And guess what ?
> 
> ...


Mihawks slash is air pressure. Its physical in nature and not magic so no, Mel cant FC it. he gets chopped into bits


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Mihawks slash is air pressure. Its physical in nature and not magic so no, Mel cant FC it. he gets chopped into bits


Air slash pressure ? No problem : 
He already dealt with " Air based sword slash " so naw.
Also, where you hear that Twigo used his power, he is an Holy Knight apprentice, you need to at least awake your innate power in order to become an Holy Knight and so far in the manga, there was zero holy knight apprentice who have displayed his magic or power lol.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 3, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Mihawk cutting it like Paper?



He's the only one capable of doing so. and its not really preventing it but more like breaking free.

And he ain't cutting everyone's at once. sure he is the top dog in terms of stats but his team falls behind in both hax and power. he cant solo all 7 at once no?


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

He can't even cut Mel that easily without him being able to dodge it like a monkey, even if by chance he cut him into two pieces, he has regeneration on his side.
Merlin can also use her instant healing senzu, euh, I mean " Orbs " : 
She was the creator of those things after all.


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## Crackle (Jan 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Shanks is a swordsman and Mihawk still has the title of worlds strongest swordsman, even when Shanks had 2 arms


And yet he's not Yonko level which was bare fucking obvious since the beginning...


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 3, 2017)

White Hawk said:


> WB never made any Admiral his bitch.


Pfft, like hell he didn't.


Fucking baby-shook this fool, like a bitch. All while bleeding out of a giant fucking hole in his chest.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

Crackle said:


> And yet he's not Yonko level which was bare fucking obvious since the beginning...


proof of this?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Air slash pressure ? No problem :
> He already dealt with " Air based sword slash " so naw.
> Also, where you hear that Twigo used his power, he is an Holy Knight apprentice, you need to at least awake your innate power in order to become an Holy Knight and so far in the manga, there was zero holy knight apprentice who have displayed his magic or power lol.


those use magic. Mel counters magic attacks, Estarossa counters physical blows and shit. he cant counter Mihawk


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> those use magic. Mel counters magic attacks, Estarossa counters physical blows and shit. he cant counter Mihawk


What ? I show you Mel countering Air slash, what else do you need ?
Mel's FC can reflect back any power, fire, water, air, energy, whatever.
He can't reflect back however physical attack indeed, like simple punches or sword slash, but air slash ? Naw, I have scans and evidence on my side that say otherwise.
Twigo use Air slash, Mel reflect it back.
That random holy knight use air slash, Mel reflect it back.
Mihawk use air slash, Mel can't reflect it back.
What kind of logic it is ?
Next you will say that he can't counter fire power that come from other verse because it comes from a machine or technology ?


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Mel's full counter explained in the manga :


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## Dellinger (Jan 3, 2017)

Sloth said:


> Pfft, like hell he didn't.
> 
> 
> Fucking baby-shook this fool, like a bitch. All while bleeding out of a giant fucking hole in his chest.


>sneak attack

>Akainu blows half of WB head off

WB dies and Akainu makes a joke out of the remaining WB pirates


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## Blαck (Jan 3, 2017)

White Hawk said:


> >sneak attack
> 
> >Akainu blows half of WB head off
> 
> WB dies and Akainu makes a joke out of the remaining WB pirates


I guess Wb's first name is Deebo because when he snuck Akainu that dude was like "what haki? "

Reactions: Like 1


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## ThatGreekLady (Jan 3, 2017)

I don't read the NNT manga, but in the anime didn't someone basically throw a spear whole *kilometres* away and even found the target he wanted? That was a crazy feat and I don't remember anyone in the one piece verse doing something equally impressive.

Anyway, I think Hancock turns Lust into stone without any problem. She might be able to take out King and Ban too and then the sins will have a serious problem. However, if the sins take out Hancock first or if Meliodas reflects it with full counter right away, then the sins will still have a problem against Mihawk who is hyped to be yonko level or close to it. 

Bonus game: Both groups were enjoyable for their roles, but the sins were definitely funnier.


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 3, 2017)

White Hawk said:


> >sneak attack
> 
> >Akainu blows half of WB head off
> 
> WB dies and Akainu makes a joke out of the remaining WB pirates


> WB clearly doesn't attack until Akainu is facing him
> WB was half dead at the start of the fight, and still ate several of his Akainu's attacks
> What Akainu did to the crew doesn't change that he got his shit pushed by a dying WB

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blαck (Jan 3, 2017)

ThatGreekLady said:


> I don't read the NNT manga, but in the anime didn't someone basically throw a spear whole *kilometres* away and even found the target he wanted? That was a crazy feat and I don't remember anyone in the one piece verse doing something equally impressive.
> 
> Anyway, I think Hancock turns Lust into stone without any problem. She might be able to take out King and Ban too and then the sins will have a serious problem. However, if the sins take out Hancock first or if Meliodas reflects it with full counter right away, then the sins will still have a problem against Mihawk who is hyped to be yonko level or close to it.
> 
> Bonus game: Both groups were enjoyable for their roles, but the sins were definitely funnier.



Well if the war is anything to go off of then she doesn't need the list to turn things to stone since she was turning the kuma-bots to stone with kicks.


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## ThatGreekLady (Jan 3, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Well if the war is anything to go off of then she doesn't need the list to turn things to stone since she was turning the kuma-bots to stone with kicks.



Yes but I was talking about her beam which seems to work only on people who lust after her. It's true that her other attacks can turn people to stone anyway.


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## uchihakil (Jan 3, 2017)

it is clear that mel can't fc physical attack,its estarossa who can, why on earth would mel have both powers, hell when mel fought ban, king was telling diane bout fc, that meliodas can't fc physical attacks, if he can he would be invincible against guyz like galan (whom uses only physical attacks) but instead got raped in the first encounter. Estarossa can full counter physical attacks and mel can full counter energy based attacks


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> What ? I show you Mel countering Air slash, what else do you need ?
> Mel's FC can reflect back any power, fire, water, air, energy, whatever.
> He can't reflect back however physical attack indeed, like simple punches or sword slash, but air slash ? Naw, I have scans and evidence on my side that say otherwise.
> Twigo use Air slash, Mel reflect it back.
> ...


cool. Twigo uses magic in his air slashes, Mihawk doesnt. Mihawk is purely physical


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Isnt haki like spiritual energy ? And used to enhance someone's strength by using armament ? So that means his attacks are not 100% physical  (just like in nnt with holy knights )


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## howdy01 (Jan 3, 2017)

haki can't* be equalized.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

But it still energy


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

its based off willpower though and tends to negate shit it comes into contact with. it cant be equalised with other energy systems like chakra or ki.


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## shade0180 (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> But it still energy



Haki is not presented as energy.
 It is some supernatural ability which is no different from the likes of a mutant gene in x-men or some shit like those but it is not an energy or energy source.

inb4someonesaysiamequalizingittoxmengenes. 

*Spoiler*: __ 



no dumbass I am not


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Why isnt it considered energy?  It does almost the same thing with almost every other energy source


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## shade0180 (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Why isnt it considered energy? It does almost the same thing with almost every other energy source



 super power =/= energy source.

every superpower can do shit that has an energy source doesn't mean they are the same shit.

Haki isn't an internal energy source.

Haki is just a superpower that exist in one piece that has multiple and different uses.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Then how come luffy's haki drained against doffy if it's not an energy source


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Meliodas should be able to reflect an enhanced air slash


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## Mabel Gleeful (Jan 3, 2017)

Are people actually saying Mihawk's slash is energy? Are Goku's punches energy? Are Seiya's normal punches energy? Mihawk may use haki, but it's clear he is using haki only to increase his strength the same way DB characters do, not that he is blasting ki blasts from his sword or even enduing them with energy like Seiya's Pegasus Meteor. His air slashes are purely physical.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

If he uses his haki to just increase his physical strength (which isnt what mihawk usually do he uses his haki on his sword) how can he harm logias??  Zoro was strong pre ts but couldnt harm logias


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 3, 2017)

Haki can probably be equalised but I'm not seeing how that's relevant here.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

So mel can reflect it like he did to twigo


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## Mabel Gleeful (Jan 3, 2017)

That only means he can endow his physical slashes with energy, doesn't mean that he can't use non-energy slashes, and those probably can't be deflected unless the character has shown enough strength to do it.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

But are his non haki slashs strong enough?  Doubt it


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## Steven (Jan 3, 2017)

im going with the sins.the nnt hax>op hax and most of the warlords are fodder.mihawk isnt leagues above the nnt team,to solos them


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## Keishin (Jan 3, 2017)

uchihakil said:


> it is clear that mel can't fc physical attack,its estarossa who can, why on earth would mel have both powers, hell when mel fought ban, king was telling diane bout fc, that meliodas can't fc physical attacks, if he can he would be invincible against guyz like galan (whom uses only physical attacks) but instead got raped in the first encounter. Estarossa can full counter physical attacks and mel can full counter energy based attacks


Because Meliodas is the best why would Estarossa having physical counter automatically make meliodas have just magic counter?


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> cool. Twigo uses magic in his air slashes, Mihawk doesnt. Mihawk is purely physical


Cool but FC work against offensive power like I posted earlier, no matter if via friction ( pure physical strength ), you can produce a fire ball, FC still can counter it.
Same logic with air slash, Mel show already that he can deal with it, stop denying the manga dude. Once you do " friction " in the air, you produce " energy ", that energy produce the attack which can be dealt with FC.
He can add " Haki " with his slash attack ( like Zoro against Monet ), Haki is a kind of energy, not pure physical, it's a " power ".
Mel's FC can counter any " power " regardless of his nature ( like how he deal with King's Disaster ).


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Cool but FC work against offensive power like I posted earlier, no matter if via friction ( pure physical strength ), you can produce a fire ball, FC still can counter it.
> Same logic with air slash, Mel show already that he can deal with it, stop denying the manga dude. Once you do " friction " in the air, you produce " energy ", that energy produce the attack which can be dealt with FC.
> He can add " Haki " with his slash attack ( like Zoro against Monet ), Haki is a kind of energy, not pure physical, it's a " power ".
> Mel's FC can counter any " power " regardless of his nature ( like how he deal with King's Disaster ).


no. its only magic power. We've been told more than once that Meliodas can only reflect magic, as shown during the Guila fight, and brought up again during Escanor vs Estarossa with him having a physical version of FC.

you dont know what youre talking about


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## Yak (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Cool but FC work against offensive power like I posted earlier, no matter if via friction ( pure physical strength ), you can produce a fire ball, FC still can counter it.
> Same logic with air slash, Mel show already that he can deal with it, stop denying the manga dude. Once you do " friction " in the air, you produce " energy ", that energy produce the attack which can be dealt with FC.
> He can add " Haki " with his slash attack ( like Zoro against Monet ), Haki is a kind of energy, not pure physical, it's a " power ".
> Mel's FC can counter any " power " regardless of his nature ( like how he deal with King's Disaster ).



Woah wait where is all of that coming from all of a sudden?

Aren't you mounting the horse the wrong way? If he was able to Full Counter Twigo that speaks for Twigo imbuing his slashes with magic not that FC suddenly has ordinary physical applications. Especially since its already been stated how his version of Full Counter works. Mel's Full Counter does not specifically work on energy attacks, it works on magic imbued attacks. Of course you transform energy one way or another if you are able to, let's assume, create a plasma beam with your sword because you manage to swing it so fast you superheat the air and create one. That is a 'natural' physical occurence but it is by no means magical.

Meliodas himself has created air shockwaves with his sword by swinging it fast enough (vs Gilthunder in the capital) but contrary to Twigos, those are physical side effects and they are also not magical. 

Unless I misunderstand what you are trying to say, then gimme a better example.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

But mihawks air slashs arent pure physical strength they are powered by haki .....so mel can reflect them


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> no. its only magic power. We've been told more than once that Meliodas can only reflect magic, as shown during the Guila fight, and brought up again during Escanor vs Estarossa with him having a physical version of FC.
> 
> you dont know what youre talking about


So you decide to ignore the scans and going full denial ? Got it.
Never it was mentioned in the manga that Mel's FC explicitly counter " magic " but " offensive and direct power ", big nuance here.
It's you who don't know what you're talking about lol.


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## Yak (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> So you decide to ignore the scans and going full denial ? Got it.
> Never it was mentioned in the manga that Mel's FC explicitly counter " magic " but " offensive and direct power ", big nuance here.
> It's you who don't know what you're talking about lol.



That is refering to Powers. And all Powers in Taizai are magic based. That's.... dude, that goes back to like chapter 30 or something. It is literally Taizai 101. 

YOU are the one who is ignoring the evidence and going full denial, not him.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Wait what?


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Shichibukai, because I feel there's more consistency in their group when it comes to the number of strong individuals.

Whereas the Sins only have 3 really atm who are really hax, while the rest are seen struggling.There's a huge gap between Ban and let's say Escanor.Same applies to King, Diane, and Gowther.

Whereas the Shichi are pretty much around the same level, the new ones of course (not counting former Shichibukai).

The DFs also offer more versatility than let's just say magic.

But of course, Escanor, being the Sun God he is, could just blow the whole place up once he reaches noon.

Praise the Sun!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Handsome Yak said:


> Woah wait where is all of that coming from all of a sudden?
> 
> Aren't you mounting the horse the wrong way? If he was able to Full Counter Twigo that speaks for Twigo imbuing his slashes with magic not that FC suddenly has ordinary physical applications. Especially since its already been stated how his version of Full Counter works. Mel's Full Counter does not specifically work on energy attacks, it works on magic imbued attacks. Of course you transform energy one way or another if you are able to, let's assume, create a plasma beam with your sword because you manage to swing it so fast you superheat the air and create one. That is a 'natural' physical occurence but it is by no means magical.
> 
> ...


Basically, what you are saying is that Mel can't counter lets say, any attack that aren't " magic " like Ace's power or mere robot who fire light beam like Kuma, or katon because it's not " magic " lol, see where you are going with that logic ?
No, that is not how his FC work, it works against " offensive power ", in other words, energy based power.
If those attacks creates those side effect and induce some form of energy, they are not " pure " anymore hence why FC can work against them, that is simple really.
Mel's FC can't counter any " pure " physical attack, not a physical power that because of the strength behind it, can produce fire via friction and energy and launch toward him ( like Gai from Naruto for example ).


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## uchihakil (Jan 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Because Meliodas is the best why would Estarossa having physical counter automatically make meliodas have just magic counter?


because its logical for them to have separate powers, so tell me why mel did'nt use full counter on galan the first time, and as i said, king already explained to diane when ban and mel were fighting, its gonna take a while to look for the scan thats why i did'nt post it. but i can look for it


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Meliodas should be able to reflect an enhanced air slash


It's not magic though.The magic in OP is represented by the DFs.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Handsome Yak said:


> That is refering to Powers. And all Powers in Taizai are magic based. That's.... dude, that goes back to like chapter 30 or something. It is literally Taizai 101.
> 
> YOU are the one who is ignoring the evidence and going full denial, not him.


Naw, I know that but that " logic " doesn't work like that in cross verse battle, hence why I said that he is going full denial.
Lol, why the community doesn't stop me when I say that Mel can counter Sasuke fireball basic attack ? Why no one stupidly doesn't say, " Bro, Naruto verse doesn't use magic, so forgot FC lol ".


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> It's not magic though.The magic in OP is represented by the DFs.


No, DFs aren't " magic ".


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 3, 2017)

Should've put Law in this, at least we wouldn't have to have the FC discussion when it comes to his abilities. FC obviously wouldn't work on Law's room slashes 

Since when does FC work on attacks stronger than Mel's own abilities anyway?


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## Yak (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Basically, what you are saying is that Mel can't counter lets say, any attack that aren't " magic " like Ace's power or mere robot who fire light beam like Kuma, or katon because it's not " magic " lol, see where you are going with that logic ?
> No, that is not how his FC work, it works against " offensive power ", in other words, energy based power.
> If those attacks creates those side effect and induce some form of energy, they are not " pure " anymore hence why FC can work against them, that is simple really.
> Mel's FC can't counter any " pure " physical attack, not a physical power that because of the strength behind it, can produce fire via friction and energy and launch toward him ( like Gai from Naruto for example ).




Yes, that is exactly how it works.


See, the word power is specifically highlightes by the quote signs, refering to a direct MAGIC atttack. A magic attack or ability is just a different word for what Taizai uses as power. Devil Fruits are afaik naturally magic (although they can be scientifically recreated, right?). A robot's fire beam or whatever would not be countered by FC if it comes from a normal, natural fuel and ignition source. 

It's really that simple. Whether it is energy or not has zero to do with it, what is the deciding factor is only the nature of the attack in whether it is direct or indirect, magical or non-magical. 

In the Mihawk scenario that means: Assuming Haki and magic power are equalized in system here, you have to determine whether Mihawk uses his Haki to strengthen his sword by directly imbuing it, giving it a similar status to a magic enchantment or whether he uses it to power up his muscles and thus allow him to make these air slashes. 

If it's the latter, then the scenario is just like during the Byzel tournament where Ban used an indirect magic power (Snatch's Physical Hunt) to power up his muscles and then throw a normal punch, which thus became uncounterable for Meliodas.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Should've put Law in this, at least we wouldn't have to have the FC discussion when it comes to his abilities. FC obviously wouldn't work on Law's room slashes
> 
> Since when does FC work on attacks stronger than Mel's own abilities anyway?


Mels clones were able to counter attacks from albion who was as strong as hendi (the clones were around 600 each while the albion was 5500 )


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

uchihakil said:


> because its logical for them to have separate powers, so tell me why mel did'nt use full counter on galan the first time, and as i said, king already explained to diane when ban and mel were fighting, its gonna take a while to look for the scan thats why i did'nt post it. but i can look for it


Dude, Galan was several times faster and stronger than him at that " time ".
FC is useless if you can't follow or read the timing of the attack.


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Should've put Law in this, at least we wouldn't have to have the FC discussion when it comes to his abilities. FC obviously wouldn't work on Law's room slashes
> 
> Since when does FC work on attacks stronger than Mel's own abilities anyway?


FC works on magical attacks, there's no prerequisite about how strong they are.


He just reflects them with double the power, which means that the stronger the opponents attack is, the stronger the reflected attack is.

The only prerequisite is that it has to be a magical attack, not a physical one. It is reversed for Estarossa.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira stop  when estarossa used full counter on Escanor ban said that the attack was a physical attack with no magic and came to the conclusion that it's a different fc from meliodas
Meliodas cant reflect physical attacks


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

An air slash wouldn't be the result of Haki, Haki is used for specific things like cutting a logia with a sword, and it has to be a direct hit.

There is no Haki imbued air slash in OP, at least not atm. So the air slash is the equivalent of a physical attack in NnT.

Also Haki isn't magic.DFs are.

Based on that, Mel shouldn't be able to reflect one of Mihawk's air slashes.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Handsome Yak said:


> Yes, that is exactly how it works.
> 
> 
> See, the word power is specifically highlightes by the quote signs, refering to a direct MAGIC atttack. A magic attack or ability is just a different word for what Taizai uses as power. Devil Fruits are afaik naturally magic (although they can be scientifically recreated, right?). A robot's fire beam or whatever would not be countered by FC if it comes from a normal, natural fuel and ignition source.
> ...


Cool, you are basically saying that he can't counter nothing outside of his verse, because nothing aren't " magic " lol.
I told you, Haki aren't magic, reatsu aren't magic, chakra aren't magic and Devil fruit aren't magic .
Same logic with Ki and banal energy beam from a robot.
I don't know if you realize how stupid your claim is in regard to a cross verse battle toward Mel. You reduce his FC to the most useless power ever in cross verse battle lmao.
You can't equalize something that is different in their core.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> An air slash wouldn't be the result of Haki, Haki is used for specific things like cutting a logia with a sword, and it has to be a direct hit.
> 
> There is no Haki imbued air slash in OP, at least not atm. So the air slash is the equivalent of a physical attack in NnT.
> 
> Also Haki isn't magic.DFs are.


Soo... How did zoro hurt monet if he didn't use a haki imbued air slash?


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Soo... How did zoro hurt monet if he didn't use haki?


He wasn't using Haki to begin with. And that's not an air slash, it's a normal cut.

THIS is an air slash

Zoro used it once against Fujitora.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 3, 2017)

So you're saying Mel can FC any energy based attack no matter the strength? Like for instance, a Ki blast from Beerus?


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> So you're saying Mel can FC any energy based attack no matter the strength? Like for instance, a Ki blast from Beerus?


If Ki is magic, then yes.But he can't reflect a punch from Beerus for example.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> An air slash wouldn't be the result of Haki, Haki is used for specific things like cutting a logia with a sword, and it has to be a direct hit.
> 
> There is no Haki imbued air slash in OP, at least not atm. So the air slash is the equivalent of a physical attack in NnT.
> 
> ...


There isn't a single thing in the manga that proof that DFs are magic, please, don't say something that doesn't exist.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> He wasn't using Haki to begin with. And that's not an air slash, it's a normal cut.


Not when he cut her in two.... When he protected tashigi


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## Yak (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Cool, you are basically saying that he can't counter nothing outside of his verse, because nothing aren't " magic " lol.
> I told you, Haki aren't magic, reatsu aren't magic, chakra aren't magic and Devil fruit aren't magic .
> Same logic with Ki and banal energy beam from a robot.
> I don't know if you realize how stupid your claim is in regard to a cross verse battle toward Mel.
> You can't equalize something that is different in their core.



Dude, stop playing dumb. OBD generally equalizes mystical sources of power and manipulation of the verses' perceived realities, whether they are called Ki, Nen, Chakra or Magic, as in NNT's case. Exceptions can be made like when one verse hosts several such defining forms and then its a case to case basis. Chakra has been treated the same way as Reiatsu or as Nen for YEARS in here and seeing how you are far more active around these parts than I am these days you should be fully aware of this.

Stop playing the guy with the wounded pride as if we were insulting your intelligence. Maybe make a better argument next time or one that isn't easily unveiled as blatantly false.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> So you're saying Mel can FC any energy based attack no matter the strength? Like for instance, a Ki blast from Beerus?


Naw, it's NLF.
He can counter any Ki blast that is Island level, higher than that level is NLF.


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Not when he cut her in two.... When he protected that girl



What girl? Tashigi?
Again that's not an air slash. That's Iai if I'm not mistaken.He's also only using one sword, which is why it's Iai.

Air slash is the big wave thingy that Mihawk used in MF, and that Zoro used in Dressrosa against Fujitora.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Handsome Yak said:


> Dude, stop playing dumb. OBD generally equalizes mystical sources of power and manipulation of the verses' perceived realities, whether they are called Ki, Nen, Chakra or Magic, as in NNT's case. Exceptions can be made like when one verse hosts several such defining forms and then its a case to case basis. Chakra has been treated the same way as Reiatsu or as Nen for YEARS in here and seeing how you are far more active around these parts than I am these days you should be fully aware of this.
> 
> Stop playing the guy with the wounded pride as if we were insulting your intelligence. Maybe make a better argument next time or one that isn't easily unveiled as blatantly false.


I am not playing dumb dude, I am just following your logic.
You are actually the one playing dumb here because you don't realize that the common point between those source of power is " energy ".
Ki is energy, same with Nen, Chakra and Magic, because you can produce " fire " that can be calculated via vaporization, which is an energy, same with attack that can cause pulverization, which is a form of energy.
You can't play the double face, either you admit that Mel's FC can counter energy based attack or not.
Although the former is obvious for anyone who have common sense.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> What girl? Tashigi?
> Again that's not an air slash. That's Iai if I'm not mistaken.He's also only using one sword, which is why it's Iai.
> 
> Air slash is the big wave thingy that Mihawk used in MF, and that Zoro used in Dressrosa against Fujitora.


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

I told you that's not an air slash, it's not the same as the one he used against Fujitora.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> What girl? Tashigi?
> Again that's not an air slash. That's Iai if I'm not mistaken.He's also only using one sword, which is why it's Iai.
> 
> Air slash is the big wave thingy that Mihawk used in MF, and that Zoro used in Dressrosa against Fujitora.


Actually, Zoro use an air slash to cut Monet.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> I told you that's not an air slash, it's not the same as the one he used against Fujitora.


Then what is it


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 3, 2017)

Was about to say...there's no way FC works on something that far out of his league.

Still...Mel being able to FC Mihawk's slashes means he would easily FC everything Escanor can throw at him


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Then what is it


It is a one sword technique, and it's not named.


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Air slashes are techniques that use the air itself to cut the opponent, hence it is not a magical attack.

So Mel can't FC shit against Mihawk.

Since he's not fighting a DF user, there's no need for him to use Haki and supposedly imbue his air slash with it.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Was about to say...there's no way FC works on something that far out of his league.
> 
> Still...Mel being able to FC Mihawk's slashes means he would easily FC everything Escanor can throw at him


Of course that he can do that, that is the specificity of his ability lol.
Unless Escanor is so fast that Mel can't read his attack anymore which I doubt.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Then how could he injure her since he was far from her?  Throwed a kunai  ??


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> Air slashes are techniques that use the air itself to cut the opponent, hence it is not a magical attack.
> 
> So Mel can't FC shit against Mihawk.


Are you saying that Mel can't counter any " air " based attack ?


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Are you saying that Mel can't counter any " air " based attack ?


If it's not from a physical attack... Yes


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> If it's not from a physical attack... Yes


Even if there is an energy behind it ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Even if there is an energy behind it ?


Except if it was enhanced by magic, chakra.....


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 3, 2017)

Mel cannot FC pure physical attacks. Only ones with magic or imbued with magic.

Haki also does not equalise with magic or chakra since its not a fuel or lifesource for OP characters, its just an ability


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## Yak (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> I am not playing dumb dude, I am just following your logic.
> You are actually the one playing dumb here because you don't realize that the common point between those source of power is " energy ".
> Ki is energy, same with Nen, Chakra and Magic, because you can produce " fire " that can be calculated via vaporization, which is an energy, same with attack that can cause pulverization, which is a form of energy.
> You can't play the double face, either you admit that Mel's FC can counter energy based attack or not.
> Although the former is obvious for anyone who have common sense.



Dude, energy is everywhere, it is a fundamental concept of our understanding of reality and it is the same in all these other fictional verses as well. 

The difference is the way it is manipulated, that makes it the defining factor here for Full Counter, which is what you apparently refuse to understand.

A simple example. 


*Spoiler*: __ 






The fodder knight with the wind shooter and the panel with Meliodas vs Gilthunder. Both are essentially similar looking attacks which likely produce similar outcomes.










The difference? Meliodas creates these air cutters with nothing but sheer physical force because he can swing that fast. The fodder knight can't. He uses his magic power, manipulates the air with it and with his weapons' motions and produces the air cutter.

Assuming both attacks produce the exact same values of energy applied here, case A) has not used magic and case B) has. Both are forms of energy but the ways both cases arrive at their results with are completely different. As such, case A) could not be Full Countered, case B) totally can.






And in a similar fashion this works for cross-verse battles too, because the defining energy systems of each verse are essentially broken down to one common concept. Usually that IS energy related of some sort but that since in most of these verses not EVERY person has the same skill or even ability of using the dominating energy system (haki, reiatsu, etc.) you have to take into account that you can manipulate the energy via "normal" and common means outside of the dominating energy system as well.

So no, Meliodas can not, for the last time, CAN NOT Full Counter any given form of direct energy attack.


If you haven't understood it now, you never will.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Mel cannot FC pure physical attacks. Only ones with magic or imbued with magic.
> 
> Haki also does not equalise with magic or chakra since its not a fuel or lifesource for OP characters, its just an ability


WTF, Haki is an universal energy than every living thing in OP possess, even matter like plant lol.
That is definitively an energy source of power, same with chakra, reatsu, nen and Ki.
I guess by your logic, he can't counter shit in Naruto verse, Bleach verse, HxH verse and any type of verse that doesn't use magic ?


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 3, 2017)

why this long ass debate about air slashes and the way full counter works when there are other ways mihawk could be put down? gowthers invasion for example.

he is basically the only threat


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Handsome Yak said:


> Dude, energy is everywhere, it is a fundamental concept of our understanding of reality and it is the same in all these other fictional verses as well.
> 
> The difference is the way it is manipulated, that makes it the defining factor here for Full Counter, which is what you apparently refuse to understand.
> 
> ...


So ? Where you see that Mel can't deal with the case A ? Show me him fail to counter air slash attack.
Glad to see that you finally admit that Mel can't counter shit outside of his verse, hence, in cross verse, his ability is useless ( for you lol ).
You don't know how cross verse battle work, by the same logic, I can argue that no one in OP can't see any shinigami from bleach because they don't have " reatsu " lol.
Same old thing.
It's you who don't want to understand. Mel's FC was stated to counter any " power ", since in this verse, all power are " magic ", you conclude that he can deal with only that kind of source of energy ?
Wrong, in cross verse battle, if we confront Meliodas with let say, shinigami Ichigo, we will don't say that it wouldn't be a fight since they are from different verse where one use " magic " and the other " reatsu "
No, there is a natural equalization between the source of their energy, otherwise the vsbattle would have been meaningless from the beginning.
Mel can see him like any character in Bleach, and him can counter his getsuga tenshou if there are Island level or lower.
That is how vsbattle system work dude.


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## Yak (Jan 3, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> So ? Where you see that Mel can't deal with the case A ? Show me him fail to counter air slash attack.
> Glad to see that you finally admit that Mel can't counter shit outside of his verse, hence, in cross verse, his ability is useless ( for you lol ).
> You don't know how cross verse battle work, by the same logic, I can argue that no one in OP can't see any shinigami from bleach because they don't have " reatsu " lol.
> Same old thing.
> It's you who don't want to understand.



I don't need to prove shit here, you are the one arguing outside the canon narrative. The manga and the OBD rules already disprove you, why should I need to?


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Handsome Yak said:


> I don't need to prove shit here, you are the one arguing outside the canon narrative. The manga and the OBD rules already disprove you, why should I need to?


No, you are the one who claim that he " can't " counter it, so prove it.
Of course Einstein, it's outside of the canon narrative since power like DFs and Haki doesn't exist in NNT lol.
Also, don't talk about the OBD rules, you don't know how basic equalization work between different verse.
As I explained in my previous post. You keep denying that Mel's FC deal with direct energy based attack, look by yourself.
Any thread with Mel vs other verse character, you will find no one saying that he can't counter chakra attack, nen attack, reatsu attack.
You are the only one who come with that shit lol.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

I dont remember seeing yak claim that fc wont reflect attacks from other verses he was telling you that fc cant reflect air slashs made by only physical strength 
Mel cant reflect a slash from escanor (unless he used magic) 
There is a difference between 
A) mel cutting a hill/mountain with a twig using only his physical strength 
B) that fodder knight who used air/wind magic to creat an air slash

Reactions: Like 2


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> I dont remember seeing yak claim that fc wont reflect attacks from other verses he was telling you that fc cant reflect air slashs made by only physical strength
> Mel cant reflect a slash from escanor (unless he used magic)
> There is a difference between
> A) mel cutting a hill/mountain with a twig using only his physical strength
> B) that fodder knight who used air/wind magic to creat an air slash


What ? Dude clearly said that FC can't counter anything that isn't " magic " imbued lol.
How you interpret his logic in cross verse battle ? By his stupid logic, Meliodas can't counter an Hiken from fodder like Ace for example since Mr Ace doesn't use magic or Lanza from Ulquiora since it's not magic.
You see the stupidity or not ?
Ofc, Mel can't counter a slash from Escanor without any power imbued beside his " pure " physical strength.
And I know very well the difference between these two scenario, don't worry, my issue with him is with " something " else lol. That I already explained above.


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## howdy01 (Jan 3, 2017)

Some of these replies should probably be saved for april the 1st, otherwise people may take them seriously...


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## Lord escanor (Jan 3, 2017)

For the sake of chin chin  stop


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> For the sake of chin chin  stop


It's already finished dude, chill and relax .
That is not a big deal, I just don't agree with him, doesn't mean that I have ill feelings toward him, he is a friend.


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## Dr. White (Jan 3, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Wait what ?
> How the hell the bolded have emotonal problems?
> Kuma doesnt even has a functional mind anymore


Gowther has used Jack on inanimate objects before such as Diane's Golem fighters, and the golem he fought with arthur. The problem is like HxH when two manipulations meet. 



BreakFlame said:


> Since when can Mel reflect Mihawk's slash? It's a pure physical attack. He doesn't even use Haki.


Twigo does not possess a known magic power from what we know. He like his family member Wayeo, is just naturally physically gifted. Even Janko can do air slashes. But yeah Twigo wasn't using magic for his cuts like the guy who used Aura burst in the capital, that was a magic ability.


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## Dr. White (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> Air slashes are techniques that use the air itself to cut the opponent, hence it is not a magical attack.
> 
> So Mel can't FC shit against Mihawk.
> 
> Since he's not fighting a DF user, there's no need for him to use Haki and supposedly imbue his air slash with it.


That's clearly what Zoro did to Monet lmao he even imbued it with Haki.

What Zoro did vs Pica is another example of an air slash. Twigo does the same thing and was countered.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Finally someone who understand that Holy Knight apprentice doesn't actually have magical ability since otherwise they will be promoted into Holy knight tier already.
I started to think that I was the only who noticed that Twigo isn't using any magic or power at all lol by that simple fact.
Fact, Twigo didn't say anything, like a " named " attack for his air slash like the dude in the capital who are legit Holy Knight unlike him, saying the name of your power are seen in any character who aren't brainless and can use magic in NNT.
Twigo remain silent with his air slash, Jericho remain silent with her air slash and finally Meliodas remain silent with his air slash. Conclusion, that was a banal air slash from their strength without any trace of ability or power lol, just condensed energy.
The dude with Air magic ability, clearly stated " wind shooter ", sign that he used an ability to generate his attack.
Guess I was right after all lol.


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## Dr. White (Jan 3, 2017)

I used to think he couldn't either until I went back and re read that fight. So I think the difference between Estarossa's and Mel's is that Mel counter energy or secondary sources of the energy (shooiting a projectile from your magic pool, using energy from your strike to cut send condensed air as a wave, King's disaster TK, etc) where as Estarossa counters the energy directly from the source such as Escanor's strike. Escanor's arms weren't thrown back and he wasn't sent flying, the damage from the attack was just reflected onto Escanor himself.

If Mel could "only counter magic" than he wouldn't be able to counter Guilla's explosions. Because he wouldn't be repelling the air in the envrionment that is pressurized during said explosion that would be sent at him in the form of a shockwave not to mention the heat, all of which aren't generated from Guilla.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

RavenSupreme said:


> why this long ass debate about air slashes and the way full counter works when there are other ways mihawk could be put down? gowthers invasion for example.
> 
> he is basically the only threat



Either you guys hype Mihawk too much, or understimate the other Shichibukai.

He's the only threat, really? How about Hancock who can turn people into stone? Merlin herself isn't immune to that.

How about Kuma who can reflect  attacks , with his Nikyu Nikyu no mi? Yeah you read that, he can REFLECT attacks, and unlike Mel there is no prerequisite about what type of attack it is.

Oh and he's a Cyborg too, which means he's more resistant than a human.

And how about Weevil whom we have yet to see his power? For all we know he could be stronger than Doflamingo.
When he was introduced he was surrounded by what looks like a city in flames and ruin, so he can prolly destroy a city on his own.

Please, Mihawk isn't the only threat here.


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## Dr. White (Jan 3, 2017)

NoticemeEscanorsenpai said:


> He's the only threat, really? How about Hancock who can turn people into stone? Merlin herself isn't immune to that.
> 
> How about Kuma who can reflect any attack, with his Nikyu Nikyu no mi? Yeah you read that, he can REFLECT attacks, and unlike Mel there is no prerequisite about what type of attack it is.
> 
> ...


Kuma can only reflect up to City level attacks as even a pre skip M3 attack pressed his paw in before it repelled the attack. There are people ranging from casually city level to island level.


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## Dayscanor (Jan 3, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Kuma can only reflect up to City level attacks as even a pre skip M3 attack pressed his paw in before it repelled the attack. There are people ranging from casually city level to island level.


We don't know if that is his official limit, or if he can also reflect island level attacks.

I don't think we've seen everything from him. And I would say it's not half as bad if he can reflect city level attacks. And that's pre skip too, so things could have changed in those two years.And that's besides the point. The point is Mihawk isn't the only threat, and other Shichibukai shouldn't be taken lightly.

If not then this thread should be renamed Mihawk vs the 7 sins.


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## trance (Jan 3, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Kuma can only reflect up to City level attacks as even a pre skip M3 attack pressed his paw in before it repelled the attack.



Pre-TS M3 are town level

Only post-TS do they reach city level


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## Dr. White (Jan 3, 2017)

kyouko said:


> Pre-TS M3 are town level
> 
> Only post-TS do they reach city level


I know, I was using that feat to state that even town level stuff was beginning to show some resistance.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 3, 2017)

Damn, I should have put Law in the Shichibukai team instead of Gecko moria, Kuma is useful with his teleportation at least.


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## Yak (Jan 4, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Finally someone who understand that Holy Knight apprentice doesn't actually have magical ability since otherwise they will be promoted into Holy knight tier already.



Having a magic power or not bears zero meaning for promotion, the Misfits had theirs since they were children and didn't get promoted until they were in their late teens. You can have a magic power as an apprentice Holy Knight just fine.

But I don't intend to reopen that can of worms from yesterday. If the issue is still about Meliodas and Mihawk, Mel has plenty of other means to combat him, be it his speed and power as well as skill with the sword or the fact that he can use purgatory fire spells, enhance his punches with darkness magic and calld own that huge darkness pillar which can bore into the earth for miles and miles.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 4, 2017)

Mihawk still has him outclassed in casual firepower by a good margin.


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## Yak (Jan 4, 2017)

We need more serious feats from current Mel


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 4, 2017)

Handsome Yak said:


> We need more serious feats from current Mel


Noon Escanor needs to solo him

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## trance (Jan 4, 2017)

Noon Escanor = Prime Mel

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Xadlin (Jan 4, 2017)

Is haki going to turn into the new King Crimson?


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## Akira1993 (Jan 4, 2017)

Handsome Yak said:


> Having a magic power or not bears zero meaning for promotion, the Misfits had theirs since they were children and didn't get promoted until they were in their late teens. You can have a magic power as an apprentice Holy Knight just fine.
> 
> But I don't intend to reopen that can of worms from yesterday. If the issue is still about Meliodas and Mihawk, Mel has plenty of other means to combat him, be it his speed and power as well as skill with the sword or the fact that he can use purgatory fire spells, enhance his punches with darkness magic and calld own that huge darkness pillar which can bore into the earth for miles and miles.


Really ? Well, I just remember that the criteria in order to be promoted is having at least a power level of 300 in Liones.
I doubt Twigo's PL was 300 but he was certainly at least around 150-160 by his strength and spirit alone. He wasn't different than Jericho, who was an apprentice too.
Regardless, the majority of the holy knight apprentices doesn't awake their magic, of course, exception exist like talented knight, but they are a little minority unfortunately.
I know that he has other means to fight him, but what he need right now is better feats in order to beat him.
FC and RC would be useless anyway since Mihawk durability is continental level in soaking damage.
Still, I think that the trio : Mel, Escanor and Gowther can defeat Mihawk if they play their cards safely.


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## B Rabbit (Jan 5, 2017)

The whole thing with energy slashes have to be imbune with haki gets debunked when you remember that preskip Zoro was doing them back in skypiea and noted it was a physical strength feat.

The reason things get equalized in the OBD is for the simple purpose so verses can fight each other. In HxH if you don't have nen you basically die, or in Bleach no reitsu you can't hit or see them. Equalizing haki would be given powers to opponents they didn't have. You don't need haki to fight or live in One Piece. Haki is for people who want to amplify their power/defenses/speed.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

That wasn't imbued with haki... The one that injured monet was 
The thing i was arguing about was not equalizing haki or giving haki to nnt team.... I was arguing whether these air slashs that are enhanced by armament haki are considered energy or not


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

B Rabbit said:


> preskip Zoro was doing them back in skypiea



He was already doing that shit even before that.

remember the time he fought that iron guy he literally could already air slash buildings.





Lord escanor said:


> .. I was arguing whether these air slashs that are enhanced by armament haki are considered energy or not



Again there is no reason for them to be energy slashes when they are already being used with normal strength the only thing you could imply is that Haki made them stronger than they were before.


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## Super Perfect Cell (Jan 5, 2017)

Escanor I think would be able to take out most of the Seven Warlords; Gecko Moria and Jinbe being the first to go down to him. (Sunshine = goodbye shadows, goodbye water).

Boa Hancock is a serious problem for most of the SDS crew except for Gowther who could probably take her out with is mental-hax.

Crocodile can't be killed via conventional means but Escanor could probably reduce him to glass, or he could get taken out by Gowther's mental-hax.

That leaves Kuma, Mihawk and Doflamingo and I think they could honestly get taken out by the SDS crew teaming up on them. Kuma's defense is impressive when his ability is working but as seen after the timeskip, Zoro could cut a Pacifista in half so if Kuma is getting targeted by multiple people's attacks, he can get taken down.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> He was already doing that shit even before that.
> 
> remember the time he fought that iron guy he literally could already air slash buildings.
> 
> ...


But if they were just physical strength... How could they hurt logias?


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> But if they were just physical strength... How could they hurt logias?



They are imbued with Haki.. Haki has the ability to let you touch a logia that has been told multiple times....

Being imbued by haki doesn't mean the attack is now following the energy system or someshit you are trying to imply

I don't know how people ended up thinking haki is energy based, Just because Luffy was tired and can't use his attack or even lift a finger at that point. -> You get it Luffy was literally dead tired and asking if he can have a small amount of rest.. 

it is a multiple system of ability. 

Precognition is a part of it
Enhancement is also a part of it.
Some other shit which can make other knockout due to pressure is also part of it

that doesn't mean it is an energy system


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Then they're not pure physical strength and have a type of energy that enhance the slash 
Fc counters energy based attacks


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> and have a type of energy that enhance the slash



 not all enhancement are energy based.

 Not every superpower is energy based.

Just because an energy based ability is very prominent in fiction. it doesn't mean every other fiction would follow that rule.

seriously what's with this circular bullshit of logic.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Would you please give me an example where an enhancement happened without using an energy?  Or using supernatural powers without energy?  If not.... Haki shouldn't be an exception


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## Super Perfect Cell (Jan 5, 2017)

Haki is basically Ki from DBZ but very specific with its uses (precognition, invisible armor, knocking people out, etc).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Or using supernatural powers without energ



X- fucking men

 Literally Marvel and DC have a whole list of superpowered being that don't run on an energy system.

Just because superman runs on Solar energy doesn't mean every super powered being with him does too.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

If i remember correctly there was a guy who can control flames there.... Those flames can be full countered


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> If i remember correctly there was a guy who can control flames.... Those flames can be full countered



and that proves nothing..


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Since haki imbued air slashs are energy based then fc will work


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Since haki imbued air slashs are energy based then fc will work



 again where are you getting that Haki is energy based. because it never have been.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

a reason why it's not?


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> a reason why it's not?





Supernatural ability =/= Energy system

Haki isn't a stamina system that exist in One Piece. One Piece has their own stamina system but it was never link to haki.

Ki/chakra/nen is a stamina system due to how it works. it is just like calorie in the real world. where without it the person could die, acumulating them strengthen the character, losing an amount of them would weaken the character and so on.

Haki lacks a lot of that shit in how it works.


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## Super Perfect Cell (Jan 5, 2017)

Haki is a bit like stamina though; it can be overused and exhausted and recover over time as seen in the Luffy vs Doffy fight.


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Super Perfect Cell said:


> seen in the Luffy vs Doffy fight



Luffy was dead tired in that fight what did you expect when he is dead tired that he can still fight?

 Seriously  being dead tired already at that point and the character unable to use an ability they have doesn't mean the ability is going to be running or categorize in a stamina/energy system.

that's seriously one of the bullshit example I keep seeing people use to prove that Haki is an energy system..


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

These arent stamina systems wtf  gon was doing fine without nen 
Haki isnt a supernatural ability (iirc everyone has it in op i might be wrong tho) 
Haki is exactly like other energy systems for example nen a nen user can do alot of things (enhancing transforming aura into electricity... ) just bcz it gives the user special abilities doesn't mean it cant be countered by fc (i.e mel can reflect aura blasts but cant use nen because it's energy) 
The same is for haki...  It gives you special abilities but that doesn't mean it cant be countered by fc


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Luffy was dead tired in that fight what did you expect when he is dead tired that he can still fight?
> 
> Seriously  being dead tired already at that point and the character unable to use an ability they have doesn't mean the ability is going to be running or categorize in a stamina/energy system.
> 
> that's seriously one of the bullshit example I keep seeing people use to prove that Haki is an energy system..


Luffy needed to recharge his haki


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> gon was doing fine without nen




 did you even read hxh. once gon let go of his nen he would die... he isn't fine without nen. he is fine without knowing how to utilize nen there's a difference.



Lord escanor said:


> Haki isnt a supernatural ability (iirc everyone has it in op i might be wrong tho)



Do you even know what is a supernatural ability



Lord escanor said:


> Haki is exactly like other energy systems for example nen a nen user can do alot of things



being use in dfferent ways =/= energy system



Lord escanor said:


> The same is for haki... It gives you special abilities but that doesn't mean it cant be countered by fc



Seriously stop using HXH as an example you have no idea what you are even talking about.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Gon was about to die because he sacrificed all his aura (life force)


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Gon was about to die because he sacrificed all his aura (life force)



Yea you totally have no idea what you are talking about

the basic activation of nen...

 seriously read HXH before you try using it as an example.


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## Dr. White (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> These arent stamina systems wtf  gon was doing fine without nen
> Haki isnt a supernatural ability (iirc everyone has it in op i might be wrong tho)
> Haki is exactly like other energy systems for example nen a nen user can do alot of things (enhancing transforming aura into electricity... ) just bcz it gives the user special abilities doesn't mean it cant be countered by fc (i.e mel can reflect aura blasts but cant use nen because it's energy)
> The same is for haki...  It gives you special abilities but that doesn't mean it cant be countered by fc


I agree. It's a minfiestation of willpower not some supernatural set of powers. People forget that some  and not some random armor that appears (boa sisters/Kuja tribe for example), and Rayleigh countered the KE of a huge monsters foot by simply extending his hand and the. As you said Luffy needed to maintain his haki to keep his G4 buffs up and was extremely tired after using it for so long alongside his transformation. Even for COC it was saw as a special power only special people had, but in reality a shit ton of people awoke CoC below them making it select, but achievable by people similar to Nen. Rayleigh's whole speech pretty much equalized Coo/Coa to other energy systems.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Super Perfect Cell (Jan 5, 2017)

Anyway Haki = energy discussion is irrelevant to the matchup.

Meliodas using Full Counter wouldn't really be necessary in this matchup. Escanor and Gowther both can take out at least 2 of the Warlords I'm sure; and the rest of the Sins can gang-up on the remaining Warlords.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Nen is the ability to control life energy(aura)


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Oh...  So shade was the only one who disagreed that haki isnt energy


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## Dr. White (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Nen is the ability to control life energy(aura)


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> It's a minfiestation of willpower not some supernatural set of powers.



Do you guys even know what supernatural power is.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Dr. White said:


>


Ussop is from hxh confirmed


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## Amol (Jan 5, 2017)

Such a ignorance about One Piece abilities ....
1) Haki is not an Energy. It is a literally and figuratively a willpower.
That makes it a supernatural ability.
Why do you think CoC can knock out people with weaker will or CoA can allow you to touch someone's real body ? If it is just an energy, it should just pass through logia but it doesn't because it is a freaking supernatural ability.
2) Air slashes comes with both varieties. Haki imbued and non imbued. It is upto user to decide which one to use. Mihawk can spam  city level+ air slashes without imbueing haki in it so it is a moot argument in any case.
3) And there is actually someone who is dumb enough to think that  motherfucking Garp isn't on Yonkou level


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Who said garp isnt  yonkou level


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> I agree. It's a minfiestation of willpower not some supernatural set of powers. People forget that some  and not some random armor that appears (boa sisters/Kuja tribe for example), and Rayleigh countered the KE of a huge monsters foot by simply extending his hand and the.



 seriously you guys are mislabeling this shit.

You know what else has an energetic clash.. when something hits it.

Magneto's barrier.

Invisible girls shield.





Dr. White said:


> As you said Luffy needed to maintain his haki to keep his G4 buffs up and was extremely tired after using it for so long alongside his transformation.



Did you forget that his very own gear modes eats up his energy ?? seriously him losing stamina more likely from the gear than the Haki..

Gear 1 eats his stamina
gear 2 boils his blood
gear 3 makes him small and hungry
gear 4 ...... what do you think??

 common sense..


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

Haki isn't something that can be FC'd. It's use is too weird. Mel can't FC Law's room slashes that use Haki for instance, or cqc attacks imbued with Haki. Basic energy isn't a good explanation of Haki


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

I've never said he can fc haki (that's like saying he can fc ki ) but he can fc an air slash imbued with haki


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## Amol (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Who said garp isnt  yonkou level





Crackle said:


> He is not even with Shanks...that cannot be backed up. He was rivals with him for however teh fuck long ago that was and god knows where their power was at then. Even then. *Garp was rivals with Gold Roger doesn't mean he's yonko level. *If we go by other verses Ino is rivals with Sakura, Konohamaru is rivals with Naruto.
> 
> being rivals with someone means jack shit and we don't even know how Mihawk stacks up.


He is even talking about *Prime* Garp


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

also seeing a presence or the presence of people is not proof of it being part of an energy system.

that is a dumbass exposition.

do you guys even know what a sixth sense is, specially in fiction?


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

If you think he can FC air slashes because of Haki, why wouldn't he be able to do the same with Law's cuts or Haki hardened punches?


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Law's slashs comes from his df...
Meliodas cant reflect punches


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 5, 2017)

Haki is all about life force/will energy/some other way of describing this that makes sense

CoA = turning life energy into armour, basically imbuing it into your attacks
CoO = sensing life energy and reading life energy to read intent and predict future attacks
CoC = projecting your energy outwards to dominate the energies of people lesser than you

Reactions: Winner 1


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> turning life energy into armour, basically imbuing it into your attacks



That came from the One piece wiki.

  I am not saying every entry in the wiki is bullshit. but that shit is almost full of speculation

as for the manga this is what it says.


as I said sensing presence =/= the sensing ability came from an energy system


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Law's slashs comes from his df...
> Meliodas cant reflect punches


He can still imbue them with Haki. And he can't reflect sword slashes either, but you're saying he can if Haki is involved. Haki can be applied to both the attacks I mentioned above


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## Super Perfect Cell (Jan 5, 2017)

Just a couple points:

1) Full Counter isn't about deflecting energy; it's about reflecting magical attacks. A better equalization would be Full Countering Devil Fruit powers as they're more like the Seven Deadly Sins magic.

2) Mihawk has never added Haki to his cuts yet in the series - air slashes or not. Of course, we know he can use Haki like that, but he there's no proof any of his slashes thus far have used Haki.


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Your energy explanation pretty sure that wasn't from the manga.


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## Dr. White (Jan 5, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> seriously you guys are mislabeling this shit.
> 
> You know what else has an energetic clash.. when something hits it.
> 
> ...



So then you don't count Nen as an energy? Because there Nen auras can block physical objects, but also objects made of nen that regular people can't. So nen is supernatural?

Haki does the same shit, your armor can block physical stuff, DF attacks, etc. Rayleigh literally showed us his aura twice as a I linked.



> Did you forget that his very own gear modes eats up his energy ?? seriously him losing stamina more likely from the gear than the Haki..
> 
> Gear 1 eats his stamina
> gear 2 boils his blood
> ...


And all of those modes never had him utilizing a Haki defense over his whole body which was constantly eating at his stamina. This was the only reason he was safe from Doflamingo's haki attacks because his body retained the bouncyness of his G4 and the rigid protection of his haki. The Haki shiled also obviously boost his attack

Which is why Luffy complained about needing to recharge his haki, not his stamina, and then was able to go right back into G4 once he got his haki up. If it's just willpower then Luffy would have needed to recharge his stamina, not his haki.


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## Dr. White (Jan 5, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Your energy explanation pretty sure that wasn't from the manga.


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## shade0180 (Jan 5, 2017)

Dr. white do you even know what supernatural is? I'm pretty sure until you understand that concept I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be in the same page.

 also seriously I posted the complete chapter.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lol, that escalated really quickly. Of course, COA is an energy based system such as nen, ki, chakra, magic and reatsu.



Jackalinthebox said:


> Haki isn't something that can be FC'd. It's use is too weird. Mel can't FC Law's room slashes that use Haki for instance, or cqc attacks imbued with Haki. Basic energy isn't a good explanation of Haki


Actually, Mel can counter Law's ability since he can counter King's disaster. ( both abilities mess with the opponent " directly " without the need of a physical touch )
Second, Law's ability is a " direct " attack, not an indirect one like snatch ( actually Disaster was also a direct attack ).
Mel's FC only work against direct ability or power, and Law's ability fit in the criteria that it's needed for his FC to work.


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## Dr. White (Jan 5, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Dr. white do you even know what supernatural is? I'm pretty sure until you understand that concept I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be in the same page.
> 
> also seriously I posted the complete chapter.


It's not supernatural if all humans have the propensity to naturally accomplish such. The only ever hint of Haki not being completely natural is its interactions with Devil Fruits and the ambiguity as to what the fuck they are. But that does not negate the handful of explanations and showings consistent with it being a life force energy including Ralyeigh showing said type of feats and aura, Usopp awakening his COO and us seeing the aura haki users perceive, and even with the logia explanation Rayleigh says their natural flow is substantialized which also sounds like an energy interaction. DF's may simply alter a person in some way and Haki is the natural counter, as I'm pretty sure Haki was not made solely to counter DF's and existed before.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

So FC even works on spatial manipulation now? Seems to get more new abilities as the thread goes on


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> So FC even works on spatial manipulation now? Seems to get more new abilities as the thread goes on


Doesn't matter the ability or the attack, as soon as it was a " direct " one, it can work as proved with King's disaster.
Prior to that, Meliodas never full countered any *invisible *attack that was directly targeted at him, and guess what ? Now, that he dealt with Disaster, that prove that he can deal with Law's slash ability because they are " direct ", they targets " directly " Mel and finally, they are invisible like Disaster.
Spatial manipulation that doesn't mess directly with him, but indirectly like snatch, yes, in that case, he can't do nothing lol.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Meliodas cant counter it since it is spacial manipulation (we dont know if mel can counter that)and doesn't it work instantly (it doesnt travel the same way as normal air slashs am i right ?)


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Meliodas cant counter it since it is spacial manipulation (we dont know if mel can counter that)and doesn't it work instantly (it doesnt travel the same way as normal air slashs am i right ?)


Lol, it's like you totally ignore the fact that Mel countered King ability which was, by the way, a reality warping technique since it can mess and manipulate reality, like the normal state of thing.
King can literally give you a disease out of nowhere ( as show with Cain ) and Mel countered that kind of ability. 
Saying that we don't know if he can do that, is the same as saying that we don't know if he can counter lava attack since I never saw him doing that lol.
The manga is clear, FC can counter any direct ability or power that isn't indirectly throw at him, or isn't physical.


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## Lord escanor (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Lol, it's like you totally ignore the fact that Mel countered King ability which was, by the way, a reality warping technique since it can mess and manipulate reality, like the normal state of thing.
> King can literally give you a disease out of nowhere ( as show with Cain ) and Mel countered that kind of ability.
> Saying that we don't know if he can do that, is the same as saying that we don't know if he can counter lava attack since I never saw him doing that lol.
> The manga is clear, FC can counter any direct ability or power that isn't indirectly throw at him, or isn't physical.


Even if could fc spacial manipulation aren't laws slashs instant?


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## Dellinger (Jan 5, 2017)

Holy fuck this thread


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Lord escanor said:


> Even if could fc spacial manipulation aren't laws slashs instant?


Law slash in your direction, and you get cut, so it depends on his own speed. ( it isn't instantaneous )
Same with King, in order for his ability to work, he simply move his hands at your direction, and you get destroyed.

If Law is faster than Mel, then it's GG.
Anything that it's faster than Mel can destroy him really, even basic attack like fire.


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## Crackle (Jan 5, 2017)

Amol said:


> He is even talking about *Prime* Garp


Yeah and he's completely right too 

congratulations you're retarded


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Damn, I should have put Law in the Shichibukai team instead of Gecko moria, Kuma is useful with his teleportation at least.



Do it. And while you're at it, take out Crocodile and put Blackbeard. You have yourself a completely different fight now.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

Inb4 "make it speed equal and FC negs GER, Crazy Diamond's transmutation and every other JJBA ability thrown his way" 

Nah, but really; nothing suggests Mel would be able to redirect Law's spatial manipulation. FC has no feats related to spatial manipulation, King's Disaster is something completely different and therefore irrelevant


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Do it. And while you're at it, take out Crocodile and put Blackbeard. You have yourself a completely different fight now.


Blackbeard alone can solo NNT verse in gauntlet style with ease ( one quake and everyone die ), he is too much.
But the pre timeskip Blackbeard isn't, in my opinion, stronger than Doflamingo or Law ( post timeskip ).


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Inb4 "make it speed equal and FC negs GER, Crazy Diamond's transmutation and every other JJBA ability thrown his way"
> 
> Nah, but really; nothing suggests Mel would be able to redirect Law's spatial manipulation. FC has no feats related to spatial manipulation, King's Disaster is something completely different and therefore irrelevant


Nah, nothing suggest that he can't ( it's just that you don't want to accept it lol ).
FC has no feat related to lava, or meteorite attacks, but you believe that he can do that when there isn't actually any limit to FC ( stated in the manga ) other than it can't work against indirect attack and physical attack ( he can't also work against attack that are too fast for Mel ).
I love how you ignore that King's ability ( for your info, his ability deserve to be in JJBA ) is literally something more complex than Law's ability which is really a simple ability.
You don't know how to use basic logic from the manga, King can give disease in his opponent from nowhere ( like Cain, it was rheumatism ), that means he can't give another disease other than rheumatism ? Lol, of course he can since nothing go against that.
Same with Ban, his fox snatch steal his opponent's heart, that means he can't steal liver if he wanted too ? ( in your stupid logic, he can't since you never saw him doing that ).
Like King, of course, he can do that.
Same shit with Mel's FC, I don't need to see him counter lava to know already based on the manga's info toward his ability that he can do it.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Nah, nothing suggest that he can't ( it's just that you don't want to accept it lol ).
> FC has no feat related to lava, or meteorite attacks, but you believe that he can do that when there isn't actually any limit to FC ( stated in the manga ) other than it can't work against indirect attack and physical attack ( he can't also work against attack that are too fast for Mel ).
> I love how you ignore that King's ability ( for your info, his ability deserve to be in JJBA ) is literally something more complex than Law's ability which is really simple ability.
> You don't know how to use basic logic from the manga, King can give disease in his opponent from nowhere ( like Cain, it was rheumatism ), that means he can't give another disease other than rheumatism ? Lol, of course he can since nothing go against that.
> ...


Your example falls flat. Lava is a regular substance, not some sort of unique superpower.

Spatial manipulation is a specific ability, we can't assume Mel can FC it since he has no feats doing so. You can't just give someone powers they have never displayed 

Full Counter has never been used against spatial manipulation of any kind. Ergo, we conclude for the time being that Mel can't counter it as things stand now


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Your example falls flat. Lava is a regular substance, not some sort of unique superpower.
> 
> Spatial manipulation is a specific ability, we can't assume Mel can FC it since he has no feats doing so. You can't just give someone powers they have never displayed
> 
> Full Counter has never been used against spatial manipulation of any kind. Ergo, we conclude for the time being that Mel can't counter it as things stand now


Lol, dude are you playing dumb on purpose ?
You think King disaster is a regular substance like elementary attack and visible attack too ? 
Yeah, show me where is that regular " substance " Einstein.
Disaster isn't some sort of unique superpower too, damn, the denial is real with you, more like the downplay.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Lol, dude are you playing dumb on purpose ?
> You think King disaster is a regular substance like elementary attack and visible attack ?
> Yeah, show me where is that regular " substance " Einstein.
> Disaster isn't some sort of unique superpower too, damn, the denial is real with you, more like the downplay.


Nice strawman. And where's the reading comprehension? 

Disaster isn't spatial manipulation, I already stated that. Period 

Your argument is literally "he can FC any non physical ability in existence directed his way because nothing says he can't." That holds no water in the obd dude. If he hasn't shown he can deal with a certain hax, then we assume he can't. Simple as that


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Nice strawman. And where's the reading comprehension?
> 
> Disaster isn't spatial manipulation, I already stated that. Period
> 
> Your argument is literally "he can FC any non physical ability in existence directed his way because nothing says he can't." That holds no water in the obd dude. If he hasn't shown he can deal with a certain hax, then we assume he can't. Simple as that


It's like you can't read ( more like you don't want to understand ).
And you are talking about the reading comprehension, you can't even see your own hypocrisy dude.
Spatial manipulation is a super natural ability, like reality warping is a super natural ability.
There is a thing called NLF dude, any direct spatial ability, reality manipulation ability that come from a city level character ( like Law or King ) where Mel is Island level, then his ability will work ( accept it or not, like I care anyway ).
I already told you in my previous post that your " he hasn't show " argument doesn't work when the ability is explained and generalized in the manga, anyone with a brain can read it.
Rock attack isn't Wind attack, which isn't water attack, and which isn't plant attack ( I can't continue like that but that is enough ).
Yet, FC can counter all of them without problem. Selective reading will get you nowhere man.
Simply saying that disaster isn't spacial manipulation is stupid because I can easily say that explosion isn't Disaster too, yet why FC can work against them ? Learn the difference between generality and specificity ( FC is more in the generality group ).


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 5, 2017)

>People still thinking Haki works like energy systems such as Ki/Nen/Chakra
leave this in 2016 for real.

People do not need haki to live, and having it drain their stamina from *overuse *does not prove anything. 

Mel can FC what he has been shown to FC, magic based attacks and energy that we can equalise to NNTs magic system. Nothing more nothing less


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >People still thinking Haki works like energy systems such as Ki/Nen/Chakra
> leave this in 2016 for real.
> 
> People do not need haki to live, and having it drain their stamina from *overuse *does not prove anything.
> ...



Do people actually think that? Haki is a persons spirit from what I remember its personification drains your energy it isnt an actual physical force that effect your body unless you learn/unlock how

its not similiar to chakra or nen simply because people can live without haki but haki cant exist without a person lol


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> Do people actually think that? Haki is a persons spirit from what I remember its personification drains your energy it isnt an actual physical force that effect your body unless you learn/unlock how
> 
> its not similiar to chakra or nen simply because people can live without haki but haki cant exist without a person lol


What ?
People can live without the " use " of chakra or nen, same with haki.
Any living things in OP has haki, they just ignore it or don't know how to unlock or use their potential. Any living thing in HxH has nen but need to open their " gate " and learn like everyone else, same with any character in naruto, any fodder can learn how to use their chakra like a shinobi.
To avoid confusion, I am talking about COA, only COC is indeed a special ability that everyone doesn't have and can't learn.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> What ?
> People can live without the " use " of chakra or nen, same with haki.
> Any living things in OP has haki, they just ignore it or don't know how to unlock or use their potential. Any living thing in HxH have nen but need to open their " gate " and learn like everyone else, same with any character in naruto, any fodder can learn how to use their chakra like a shinobi.
> To avoid confusion, I am talking about COA, only COC is indeed a special ability that everyone doesn't have and can't learn.



I mean that Haki isnt something that a human has any sort of awareness to be formidable about in the one piece universe

Ace didnt use haki once the entire show nor did he have need to use Haki to be a more than formidable pirate(as far as we know) is a personification of your spirit its not a real energy system

Everything flows through nen in HxH every abillity is used because of Nen same with Chakra

Haki especially CoA is used to enhance/harden your attacks it doesnt create new attacks as far as we seen (unless gear 4 counts as an attack)

Haki isnt energy it but using/overusing it awarelly consumes energy


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> It's like you can't read ( more like you don't want to understand ).
> And you are talking about the reading comprehension, you can't even see your own hypocrisy dude.
> Spatial manipulation is a super natural ability, like reality warping is a super natural ability.
> There is a thing called NLF dude, any direct spatial ability, reality manipulation ability that come from a city level character ( like Law or King ) where Mel is Island level, then his ability will work ( accept it or not, like I care anyway ).
> ...


You're spouting complete nonsense. Until Mel has countered the hax on panel or is explicitly said to be able to, we assume he is unable to. OBD's rules, not mine 

Spatial manipulation, transmutation, GER and other similar hax operate outside of dc. Law having city level dc doesn't in the slightest mean Mel can FC his room slashes just because he himself is island level. Your assessment in that regard is plain wrong 

As things stand; FC would not work against spatial cutting, transmutation, GER as a whole and other hax that are similar in nature. Either accept that, or get used to everyone saying you're wrong


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> I mean that Haki isnt something that a human has any sort of awareness to be formidable about in the one piece universe
> 
> Ace didnt use haki once the entire show nor did he have need to use Haki to be a more than formidable pirate(as far as we know) is a personification of your spirit its not a real energy system


Actually, Ace used COC when he was a kid, and since he was the second commandment in White beard's crew, one of the 4 yonko in the new world ( not grand line ), it's ludicrous to think that he didn't know how to use Haki. ( I will even say that it's shameful lol ).
Yeah, I agree that a human hasn't any sort of awareness toward Haki.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

This is probably random but isnt GERs range and abillity like universe class considering it takes the effect out of cause and effect


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Actually, Ace used COC when he was a kid, and since he was the second commandment in White beard's crew, one of the 4 yonko in the new world ( not grand line ), it's ludicrous to think that he didn't know how to use Haki. ( I will even say that it's shameful lol ).
> Yeah, I agree that a human hasn't any sort of awareness toward Haki.



Lol I didnt say he didnt know how to use haki? I said he didnt use ot in the series and even blackbeard noted he relied a lot on his devil fruit maybe he neglected developing his haki for superior devil fruit mastery lol?

Also the number of the commander in one piece means shit being the 2nd division commander doesnt mean he is the 2nd strongest he is just yonko commander level


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> You're spouting complete nonsense. Until Mel has countered the hax on panel or is explicitly said to be able to, we assume he is unable to. OBD's rules, not mine
> 
> Spatial manipulation, transmutation, GER and other similar hax operate outside of dc. Law having city level dc doesn't in the slightest mean Mel can FC his room slashes just because he himself is island level. Your assessment in that regard is plain wrong
> 
> As things stand; FC would not work against spatial cutting, transmutation, GER as a whole and other hax that are similar in nature. Either accept that, or get used to everyone saying you're wrong


It's you who are spouting complete nonsense again.
Disaster is an hax power that operate outside of DC, same with " death breath " which is evil soul incantation attack : 
I excepted that you'd played the deaf and the blind ( like you even read the comment that you quoted lol ).
Let's see what the manga ( not mere fan like you or everyone who think like you ) said about FC : 

" It can reflect direct powers with offensive nature "( unless that you don't know, power can be elemental, energy or even hax, yes hax is technically a power, I have the King's example already on my side ).
Conclusion, my assessment in that regard is plain right, unlike you, I don't do selective reading and arbitrarily say that Mel can counter this and that, and can't counter this and that without first that the manga confirmed that kind of reasoning.
I will not repeat myself, if you can't even understand a simple thing as that, I can't be helped lol.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> It's you who are spouting complete nonsense again.
> Disaster is an hax power that operate outside of DC, same with " death breath " which is evil soul incantation attack :
> I excepted that you'd played the deaf and the blind ( like you even read the comment that you quoted lol ).
> Let's see what the manga ( not mere fan like you or everyone who think like you ) said about FC :
> ...



What does this define as a power does define power as a special abillity or as a force? if it nullifies every special abillity(I dont read seven deadly sins so I wont lie and say I do) than laws DF should be useless considering a DF is under the thing that is special abillity

if its some sort of force than laws abillity isnt nullified because room is about switching or removing someones body parts, not inflicting force on them


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> What does this define as a power does define power as a special abillity or as a force? if it nullifies every special abillity(I dont read seven deadly sins so I wont lie and say I do) than laws DF should be useless considering a DF is under the thing that is special abillity
> 
> if its some sort of force than laws abillity isnt nullified because room is about switching or removing someones body parts, not inflicting force on them


I define power as anything which is out of the ordinary, anything that isn't normal in our own perspective of the IRL.
In here, DFs are special power ( or ability same thing ), if the power is throw directly at Mel and he see that coming, he can counter it, that is the point of his power Full Counter, unlike others think, it work against a variety of offensive powers ( fire, soul attack, plant and even reality manipulation attack ) but if and only if they are direct ( not indirect ) and not physical ( without any power whatsoever ). If you read the manga, that is the only limit of this ability, that's all lol.
There is a reason why the manga generalized the Full counter by saying that he work against direct power*s ( not 5 or 6 powers only lol )*


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> I define power as anything which is out of the ordinary, anything that isn't normal in our own perspective of the IRL.
> In here, DFs are special power ( or ability same thing ), if the power is throw directly at Mel and he saw that coming, he can counter it, that is the point of his power Full Counter, unlike others think, it work against a variety of offensive powers ( fire, soul attack, plant and even reality manipulation attack ) but if and only if they are direct ( not indirect ) and physical ( without any power whatsoever ).
> There is a reason why the manga generalized the Full counter by saying that he work against direct power*s ( not 5 or 6 powers only lol )*



what you define as power isnt what a show defines as a power lad, thats a big disconnect Laws abillity isnt direct tho it works within a room where he can alter everything in but it isnt exactly a direct attack

Also whats laws speed compared to him (or is speed equalized) law isnt reality warping he is simply changes the arrangement of the bodies within a room


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

The official translations of those pages:



1. It specifically states magic, not energy and attack of any kind
2. You can't honestly believe that Mel's FC would work against every offensive hax in all of fiction
3. No matter what you believe, the obd disagrees with you and we go by it's rules, not the ones you create on the spot to help your abysmal arguments


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Even by his own logic its really hard to see why laws attack is nullified because it isnt direct or reality warping what so ever in its base it just changes the arrangement of the things within the sphere that is the room


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> The official translations of those pages:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, are you stupid ? Really ?
" It specifically states magic, not energy and attack of any king "
Because " magic " can't be an attack now ? : 
Man, this is pathetic, you are trying way too hard, you are stating the obvious, of course, power or ability in NNT are " magic ", they are " maryoku ". Every child who read NNT know that already.
It doesn't however change the fact that it's an energy ( you need energy to produce heat and fire, black energy ball attack like death end or even an explosion ).
I believe what it is stated in the manga which is a generality and no dude, every hax in all of fiction aren't " direct ", time stop isn't direct, more like indirect, therefore Mel can't counter that and there is many more like that lol.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Dude, are you stupid ? Really ?
> " It specifically states magic, not energy and attack of any king "
> Because " magic " can't be an attack now ? :
> Man, this is pathetic, you are try way too hard, you are stating the obvious, of course idiot, power or ability in NNT are " magic ", they are " maryoku ". Every child who read NNT know that already.
> ...



Hax can be direct like absolute 0 in saint seiya

Kumas repel abillity is literally massive hax and its direct as well


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> Even by his own logic its really hard to see why laws attack is nullified because it isnt direct or reality warping what so ever in its base it just changes the arrangement of the things within the sphere that is the room


It's not a direct move when he slash his sword toward your direction, at your body ? Ofc, it's a direct move and ability.
Listen, since you don't read NNT, it will be difficult for me to show you some parallel ( that happened in the manga ) for my argument.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Dude, are you stupid ? Really ?
> " It specifically states magic, not energy and attack of any king "
> Because " magic " can't be an attack now ? :
> Man, this is pathetic, you are try way too hard, you are stating the obvious, of course idiot, power or ability in NNT are " magic ", they are " maryoku ". Every child who read NNT know that already.
> ...


You are in your own little world man. Multiple ppl have tried to explain to you how FC really works, but it seems to go right over your head as you continuously give your fanfic version 

Wasted enough time though. Your argument doesn't work here and that's what matters. If you don't believe me, go make a meta thread about Full Counter and see how your explanation gets shot down


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> Hax can be direct like absolute 0 in saint seiya
> 
> Kumas repel abillity is literally massive hax and its direct as well


If I recall correctly, Kuma can't repel without its pads touching the attack directly, in contrast with Mel, he doesn't need direct contact, he shout the name of his ability, swing his sword and it works.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> If I recall correctly, Kuma can't repel without its pads touching the attack directly, in contrast with Mel, he doesn't need direct contact, he shout the name of his ability, swing his sword and it works.



You said _every hax in all of fiction aren't " direct " _I just pointed out the fact that the notion you expressed is false

meanwhile shouldnt blackbeard counter the full counter of mell considering he has a DF whos power is literally earthquakes (and whitebeard is like continent level)


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> You are in your own little world man. Multiple ppl have tried to explain to you how FC really works, but it seems to go right over your head as you continuously give your fanfic version
> 
> Wasted enough time though. Your argument doesn't work here and that's what matters. If you don't believe me, go make a meta thread about Full Counter and see how your explanation gets shot down


Multiple people ? The only guy that I am arguing about how work FC since today, is you dude. ( irony that you talk about my own little world after that ).
I don't need to ask another brain how FC work, I have my own cerebral cortex, the text is clear, the context is clear, I can draw the conclusion alone.
You are free to refuse to accept the evidence from the manga about the fact that the specter of action of FC is wider than you imagine ( like I said, I don't care either you agree or not with my stance, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter for me ).


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Multiple people ? The only guy that I am arguing about how work FC since today, is you dude. ( irony that you talk about my own little world after that ).
> I don't need to ask another brain how FC work, I have my own cerebral cortex, the text is clear, the context is clear, I can draw the conclusion alone.
> You are free to refuse to accept the evidence from the manga about the fact that the specter of action of FC is wider than you imagine ( like I said, I don't care either you agree or not with my stance, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter for me ).




Dont you have to go by the rules of the battledome? the opinion you deduced doesnt matter in the meta thats why he said you should go to meta lol. only the rules and powers the official meta set are the ones that you are actually accepted


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> You said _every hax in all of fiction aren't " direct " _I just pointed out the fact that the notion you expressed is false
> 
> meanwhile shouldnt blackbeard counter the full counter of mell considering he has a DF whos power is literally earthquakes (and whitebeard is like continent level)


How it is false ? I think there is a misunderstanding, when I said, " direct " power, I said a power that come directly from the user and that affect directly Mel in a linear fashion.
Remenber, Mel can't place Full counter if he can't read the timing of the attack for several reasons ( if it's too fast to read, omni-directional or indirect like snatch ).
I took the example of time stop, right, time stop affect the time itself, not directly Mel, that is why he will indirectly be a victim of that Hax no matter what he do ( unless he show some resistance later in the manga, who know ).
You talk about absolute zero in saint seiya, excuse me but  Aurora execution from Camus or hyoga is a direct hax attack since it come from them ( their hands ) and affect directly their target ( not to mention that Ice is an elemental power ).
But yeah, I know the NLF policy, Mel isn't Universal level and light speed, so he can't counter their attack.
Same logic with Blackbeard and White beard, they are continental level, Mel is only Island level, therefore, he can't counter them.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

maybe im not understand well but you are saying

_ hax in all of fiction aren't " direct "

*aren't*
_
that is false hax can be either linear/focused attacks and attacks on a much larger scale again Absolute 0 in saint seiya is very very direct

maybe you meant hax in all of fiction are direct despite not actually being targeted to a single unit which is also false but I can get where you are coming from


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> Dont you have to go by the rules of the battledome? the opinion you deduced doesnt matter in the meta thats why he said you should go to meta lol. only the rules and powers the official meta set are the ones that you are actually accepted


As I said, I only go with the manga, not the meta lol, also, I noticed that they are even people that outright t$deny the manga ( like that dude who tried his hardest to ignore the fact that Mel counter a hax power as complex as spacial manipulation, reality manipulation is not a joke lol ).
Everything is already clear.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> As I said, I only go with the manga, not the meta lol, also, I noticed that they are even people that outright t$deny the manga ( like that dude who tried his hardest to ignore the fact that Mel counter a hax power as complex as spacial manipulation, reality manipulation is not a joke lol ).
> Everything is already clear.



counter a hax power when the manga clearly states he cant is just plot no jutsu and again we judge players via the rules the meta gives not the rules you assign to them by the evidence you deduced and again its all irrelevant because by your description mel still gets solod by blackbeard considering he  can literally just send a giant tsunami his way or cause a massive earthquake


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> maybe im not understand well but you are saying
> 
> _ hax in all of fiction aren't " direct "
> 
> ...


I meant what I posted previously in your last comment, I can not be more clearer than that.
I said " *every *hax in all of fiction aren't direct ", I meant some broken hax are direct focused toward their target, some hax aren't direct, like time stop, causality manipulation or snatch.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 5, 2017)

King's Disaster is not spacial manipulation, its more like probability manipulation and TK in one. Mel has never FC'd spacial manipulation


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> I meant what I posted previously in your last comment, I can not be more clearer than that.
> I said " *every *hax in all of fiction aren't direct ", I meant some broken hax are direct focused toward their target, some hax aren't direct, like time stop, causality manipulation or snatch.



again I understand you now but it still doesnt matter again cuz blackbeard easily beats Mel


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> counter a hax power when the manga clearly states he cant is just plot no jutsu and again we judge players via the rules the meta gives not the rules you assign to them by the evidence you deduced and again its all irrelevant because by your description mel still gets solod by blackbeard considering he  can literally just send a giant tsunami his way or cause a massive earthquake


" counter a hax power when the manga clearly states he can't " ?
Dude, how do you know ? I thought you didn't read NNT ? WTF.
Again, Mel countered Disaster, which is a hax power, actually never the manga stated that he can't do what you are claiming.
Man, I said I agree that Blackbeard solo Mel with his massive earthquake, I told you that they are a NLF policy in this forum.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> King's Disaster is not spacial manipulation, its more like probability manipulation and TK in one. Mel has never FC'd spacial manipulation


And Mel has never FC'd water attack too, your point ?
We know already that Disaster isn't spacial manipulation, still nonetheless, that is hax.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 5, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> " counter a hax power when the manga clearly states he can't " ?
> Dude, how do you know ? I thought you didn't read NNT ? WTF.
> Again, Mel countered Disaster, which is a hax power, actually never the manga stated that he can't do what you are claiming.
> Man, I said I agree that Blackbeard solo Mel with his massive earthquake, I told you that they are a NLF policy in this forum.



lad I didnt state it as fact... I used it as an example im not referring to mel or anything

if you bypass a power despite the manga not saying you can do it with you current power its usually via plot no jutsu or a pretty shameless retcon

this isnt about NNT this is just in general if the manga states his power cant do that and he suddenly can block that attack via retcon thats just bad writing


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## Akira1993 (Jan 5, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> lad I didnt state it as fact... I used it as an example im not referring to mel or anything
> 
> if you bypass a power despite the manga not saying you can do it with you current power its usually via plot no jutsu or a pretty shameless retcon
> 
> this isnt about NNT this is just in general if the manga states his power cant do that and he suddenly can block that attack via retcon thats just bad writing


Just a question, according to you, how I should take or interpret a power which is generalized in the manga ? Literally like how I do, or I do selective reasoning and I take the interpretation I see and recognize perfect.
I understand what you are saying too, some power get a free pass thanks to their bad writing indeed.


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## B Rabbit (Jan 5, 2017)

Current Shichibukai stomp, just adding all current and former make this a bigger stomp.


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## KnottyHead (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Just a question, according to you, how I should take or interpret a power which is generalized in the manga ? Literally like how I do, or I do selective reasoning and I take the interpretation I see and recognize perfect.
> I understand what you are saying too, some power get a free pass thanks to their bad writing indeed.




I didnt read NNT again so I cant fully understand the situation in terms of how Mels power really functions aside from singular scans. But I think we should go by how the battledome defines his power in the meta rather than how you interpretate how someones power works. because we could be stuck on scemantics for ages.

not that it matters because again blackbeard post TS completely stomps


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> I didnt read NNT again so I cant fully understand the situation in terms of how Mels power really functions aside from singular scans. But I think we should go by how the battledome defines his power in the meta rather than how you interpretate how someones power works. because we could be stuck on scemantics for ages.
> 
> not that it matters because again blackbeard post TS completely stomps


No, when the power is objectively and clearly stated and explained in the manga, there is no room for subjective and semantic interpretation, that again, I need no one to teach me how I should understand elementary stuff ( and I guess you too ).
But thanks for your input anyway.
Since you are keeping with Blackbeard, Mel isn't the only character that exist in NNT, and he isn't alone in this thread, how Blackbeard post TS can deal against mind manipulation ability, snatch and soul steal ability ?


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## KnottyHead (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> No, when the power is objectively and clearly stated and explained in the manga, there is no room for subjective and semantic interpretation, that again, I need no one to teach me how I should understand elementary stuff ( and I guess you too ).
> But thanks for your input anyway.
> Since you are keeping with Blackbeard, Mel isn't the only character that exist in NNT, and he isn't alone in this thread, how Blackbeard post TS can deal against mind manipulation ability, snatch and soul steal ability ?



can someone in NNT deal with small continent level Destructive capabillties and Tsunamis? not to talk about his power yami yami no mi sucks them into gravity making the damage output much stronger in theory

and this isnt even touching on the fact that their speed feats dont matter because if they rush to him they will get sucked by the yami yami no mi AND suffer very strong earthquakes

if we equalize speed (im pretty sure you didnt) than blackbeard mid diffs all of them

Lol didnt notice were talking original shichibukai anyway

Mihawk gets blocked by mel. Boa cant do shit to mel from what I understand as he doesnt seek women. Jinbe isnt destructive enough, Doffy would handle well. Moria is weak af... Croc being untouchable is a pain but im sure he can get countered

Especially considering its in marineford which is surrounded by water

would be more interesting if speed was equalized pretty sure mihawk even via power scaling is still like 10 times slower than current 7 deadly sins


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## trance (Jan 6, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> Mihawk gets blocked by mel



And Mel proceeds to get his ass handed to him


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

KnottyHead said:


> can someone in NNT deal with small continent level Destructive capabillties and Tsunamis? not to talk about his power yami yami no mi sucks them into gravity making the damage output much stronger in theory
> 
> and this isnt even touching on the fact that their speed feats dont matter because if they rush to him they will get sucked by the yami yami no mi AND suffer very strong earthquakes
> 
> ...


OP top tier are mach 1900, Mel and Escanor are both mach 3600, guess who is faster lol.
If Blackbeard summon some tsunamis, then he is an idiot who destroy himself since he is a DF user, but again tsunamis aren't a problem since Escanor can evaporate it with relative ease.
Blackbeard can't do nothing against Gowther ( the dude can fuck your mind, how the hell can he counter that ? ), he get destroyed by him, he can't do nothing if Mel decide to steal his soul too since he is a Demon and the elder son of the Demon King himself ( soul steal is only used in Demon Clan, pitiful lower demon such as red demon can use it lol ).
Mihawk isn't any different, Gowther destroy him too with the same fashion.
Basically what Meliodas need is to ask his friend Gowther to clean this mess for him and protecting his back lol.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

kyouko said:


> And Mel proceeds to get his ass handed to him


Are you aware that Mel can steal his soul anytime that he wish too ? Do you forgot that he is the son of the Demon King ( which makes him the highest tier of his own Clan ), same Demon Clan that is know for : 
" Demon tribes were know for *feasting upon souls *".
Hell, fucking insect like Red Demon ( fodder in the Demon Clan ) can feast and steal some souls lol. Imagine the facility for the strongest of them all.
So yeah, technically, Mel can one shot Mihawk if he play nicely his cards.
Gowther can also deal with him just fine for obvious reason too.


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## Blαck (Jan 6, 2017)

The mach 3600 calc went through? 

Also, doesn't gowther have to tag you with one of those laser arrows/darts before he can mind fuck? Haven't seen gowther fight in awhile so idk.

And was the full counter works on df's argument settled?


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## Imagine (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira making threads with already having pre determined winners in mind?

What's new


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## trance (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> Are you aware that Mel can steal his soul anytime that he wish too ? Do you forgot that he is the son of the Demon King ( which makes him the highest tier of his own Clan ), same Demon Clan that is know for :
> " Demon tribes were know for *feasting upon souls *".
> Hell, fucking insect like Red Demon ( fodder in the Demon Clan ) can feast and steal some souls lol. Imagine the facility for the strongest of them all.
> So yeah, technically, Mel can one shot Mihawk if he play nicely his cards.
> Gowther can also deal with him just fine for obvious reason too.



That's nice and all but Mel's go to strategy in a fight is overwhelming power and speed, sometimes accompanied by a sword and Full Counter

If Mel tries to take Mihawk on in a direct fight with just his stats, he's going to lose and it won't be pretty

If he decides to use his soulfuck, then I'm inclined to agree that his chances definitely go up (though maybe not for long depending on what happens and how it happened but that's a discussion for another day)


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

Blαck said:


> The mach 3600 calc went through?
> 
> Also, doesn't gowther have to tag you with one of those laser arrows/darts before he can mind fuck? Haven't seen gowther fight in awhile so idk.
> 
> And was the full counter works on df's argument settled?


The mach 3600 is only the high end of the same calc that got NN into mach 1800.
Galan's speed calc.
Thanks to recent official translation.
Basically yeah, Gowther have to shoot his " light " arrow in order to fuck your mind, and those arrows are automatic lol, not to mention that this is a team vs team, when Gowther finish off quickly any of his opponent, he can help his comrade from behind.
FC can work fine on DF's power since those aren't physical lol. WTH.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

kyouko said:


> That's nice and all but Mel's go to strategy in a fight is overwhelming power and speed, sometimes accompanied by a sword and Full Counter
> 
> If Mel tries to take Mihawk on in a direct fight with just his stats, he's going to lose and it won't be pretty
> 
> If he decides to use his soulfuck, then I'm inclined to agree that his chances definitely go up (though maybe not for long depending on what happens and how it happened but that's a discussion for another day)


Finally someone who can actually argue with facts and don't deny the manga just because lmao.
Yes, you are right, if Mel tries to take directly on Mihawk, he will get defeated mid-dif, true that Mihawk is higher in power and durability but not in speed, Mel has a slightly advantage on speed ( so he can play the monkey style on Mihawk and dodge some of his attack ), which can help to prolong their fight until someone decide to give a little help ( like Escanor or even Gowther from behind ).
If he decide to use soulfuck, and then it's GG for Mihawk indeed. ( but let's be honest, he is probably too kind and naive to use it against a Human being lol )
Full counter is useless against someone as Mihawk, dude is a physical brawler. ( main reason why this is useless lol )


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> The mach 3600 is only the high end of the same calc that got NN into mach 1800.



why are you using the high end for NNT, and yet you are not using the high end for OP?


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> If he decide to use soulfuck



If shit is that easy Perona or even Moria could solo the shishibukai or even the 4 warlord or the World government.

there's a reason powerscaling is not limited to DC and Durability.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> why are you using the high end for NNT, and yet you are not using the high end for OP?


Because the High End can be used thanks to the official translation of the scan that explained about Merlin's radius.
I dunno about OP, all I know is that their official speed is mach 1.9k as for now.


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Also why are you guys even throwing shit over each other for a 2x speed difference between the verse?

 seriously 2x or even 4x difference is not even a shit you guys should be holding onto considering the calc accuracy is never going to be 100% perfect.

you might as well as treat this as speed equal considering the speed discrepancy is literally non-existent.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> If shit is that easy Perona or even Moria could solo the shishibukai or even the 4 warlord or the World government.
> 
> there's a reason powerscaling is not limited to DC and Durability.


Still irrelevant, you need specific resistance or immunity in order to protect yourself from soulfuck ( same with mindfuck ).
Show me anyone in OP which have that kind of immunity ? That is how it work.


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> you need specific resistance or immunity in order to protect yourself from soulfuck ( same with mindfuck ).



Trafagal Law vs Vergo. If Soul fuck is that easy to do against a top tier there is no reason for Law to be where he is getting suppress by some low shit character like Vergo.

 If Soul Fuck is an answer for everything Perona wouldn't need to hide with Moria.

If Soul fuck can solve their problem Moria won't be going back to Grand line and would have been the king of New World.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Also why are you guys even throwing shit over each other for a 2x speed difference between the verse?
> 
> seriously 2x or even 4x difference is not even a shit you guys should be holding onto considering the calc accuracy is never going to be 100% perfect.
> 
> you might as well as treat this as speed equal considering the speed discrepancy is literally non-existent.


2 times speed difference is still a difference dude, there aren't any blitzing but the guy who is 2 times faster can easily dodge or react against the other guy who is 2 times slower.
Basically, one is comfortable and the other will have trouble placing his attack. ( ofc, in close range battle ).


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> 2 times speed difference is still a difference dude, there aren't any blitzing but the guy who is 2 times faster can easily dodge or react against the other guy who is 2 times slower.



....... and this is the reason IWD is right about calcs...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Trafagal Law vs Vergo. If Soul fuck is that easy to do against a top tier there is no reason for Law to be where he is getting suppress by some low shit like Vergo.


????????
I told you to show me someone in OP which have resistance against soulfuck and mindfuck, neither Law and Vergo doesn't have that, are you trolling ? Or you deliberately don't want to understand ?


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Or you are deliberately ignoring the context of the whole OP verse.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> ....... and this is the reason IWD is right about calcs...


I wonder if you argue for the sole purpose of arguing or you want to reach a clear conclusion.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Or you are deliberately ignoring the context of the whole OP verse.


Alright, lol
concession accepted.


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> you want to reach a clear conclusion.



I'm pretty sure you aren't here for this shit.


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> I'm pretty sure you aren't here for this shit.


And you can read people's mind and intention now, wow.


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Akira1993 said:


> And you can read people's mind and intention now, wow.



No, but I can read what you are posting,


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> No, but I can read what you are posting,


To be honest, I don't think you actually understand what I'm posting.


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 6, 2017)

I want to argue in this thread but it's 6 pages already and no one reached an agreement?


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## howdy01 (Jan 6, 2017)

this thread should've been moved to meta and titled "wtf is haki bruh"


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 6, 2017)

Kinda hard to reach an agreement when people are claiming Mel can FC all hax in fiction directed his way, based solely off a mistranslation and the Disaster thing


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Kinda hard to reach an agreement when people are claiming Mel can FC all hax in fiction directed his way, based solely off a mistranslation and the Disaster thing


Mistranslation ?


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## Akira1993 (Jan 6, 2017)

We have already reached an agreement, it's just that for some reason, some guys think that this thread is for Mel and his FC alone lol.
Yeah, let's forgot that there are also other sins with broken hax too.


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## Dr. White (Jan 6, 2017)

With Law they can probably win. Mihawk would get nice backup and then along with Hancock put up a match here. 

Mel full countering King's Disaster means that FC can counter life/death hax debuffs. It doesn't mean he can throw back spatial attacks. It be like arguing he could FC teleportation, Bend Room, or a theoretical timestop. It is possible however that he could possibly send back room since it's conceptual and so is Disaster but idk.

Mach 3.6 has been a thing for a hot minute. The original translation made zero sense as Merlins cast range has forever been >>>> several miles. Galan jumped several miles out of her spell AOE range, and also out of her sensing/location range.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 6, 2017)

The official translation called it her magics "sphere of influence" and based on other feats we know that the range of that is at least 100+ miles and Galan crossed that in a second or so.

Also unless Mel has knowledge he wont ever use his soulfuck since demons only use that shit on the lowest of fodder in verse.


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## shade0180 (Jan 6, 2017)

Seriously this thread should have ended on the first or second page..

Either way the Sin wins this. again the speed discrepancy is moot so ignore it.

Merlin could literally BFR everyone except Kuma and he will get gangraped by the Sin
Gowther can literally down 5 or so of the Shishibukai with his arrow whatever that thing is called. and the rest could be BFR by Merlin
Ban can drain everyone of them, because they are within Ban's level of power. and then get gang raped by the rest of the Sin
King can also just open scars on anyone of them or do other shit that could kill them considering his ability is closer to reality warping than anything else.

Diane, Mel and Escanor can literally just watch what the other 4 would do and they would still win.


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