# Team 7 and the Sannin; relations and resemblances



## Godaime Tsunade (Mar 2, 2012)

[font=”Palatino Linotype”]*I. Introduction*​
I’m sure there have been hundreds of threads about how Team 7 and the Sannin are similar, and I’m sure all of you who have read the manga are aware that its fairly obvious how similar the teams are in personality, skills etc. In fact, a lot of you are probably bored to tears reading the same old thing time and time again. However, before you roll your eyes to heaven and think of how generic and overdone this type of thread is, let me assure you that there will be things here that many of you are not aware of, and that may be interesting for you to be aware of. I should add that, besides just looking at how similar both teams are, I will explore how Team 7’s relation to the Sannin may have an impact on their future, near or distant. 

There may be material here you're already very aware of, and if that's the case, just feel free to skim over it, and read what you don't know, or are interested. This thread isn't going to involve much complexity, or persuasive writing, so you can afford to skip over certain parts, anyway, enjoy! 



*II. Personality and Skill Relations​*
To start, let’s just remind ourselves of the obvious, at different points within the manga, each of the Legendary Sannin takes one of the Team 7’s Genin under their wing. First, Jiraiya takes Naruto [1] Naruto is the main hero, so it’s natural that he was the first. Sasuke, seeing that Jiraiya’s tutelage has made Naruto so much stronger, seeks power from Orochimaru, who in turn seeks power from Sasuke. [1] Sakura; who sees how both her team-mates are so far ahead of her, decides to take action and asks for Tsunade’s training. [1] 

Already, even without knowing anything of the characters backgrounds, there are obvious links between the teacher and student pairings. Like Naruto, Jiraiya is a typical goof, having caused trouble as a young genin. He also had a crush on his female team-mate, Tsunade, who expressed no interest in him at all. Jiraiya liked to show off in battle as well, even in tense situations – just like Naruto. Despite this goofy behaviour, Jiraiya values peace and fights hatred, traits which his student Naruto blatantly seems to pick up in Part II. Orochimaru seeks power, wishing to learn every jutsu in existence, in particular he desires the power to take over Itachi’s body. Likewise, Sasuke seeks power, so he can avenge his clan and kill his brother: initially both of this pair have the same intentions. Sakura’s aim is to be of use to Naruto, she wants to be able to protect her team-mates, she doesn’t want to need saving and watch from the background anymore. Similarly; Tsunade’s intention was to protect her team-mates, hence why she devoted her time to medical ninjutsu. Tsunade also saw her team-mate Orochimaru leave Konoha, and didn’t do anything to stop him [as far as we’re aware] Sakura was in the same boat as Tsunade when it came to Sasuke, having done almost nothing to bring him back to Konoha.

Now, in terms of skills, even before they were tutored by the Sannin, Team 7 showed resemblances to them. Naruto with his perverted ninjutsu, shadow clones and flashy attacks. Sasuke was considered a genius, an all around expert, there wasn’t any area he was flawed in, except team-work – just like Orochimaru. Sakura excelled in chakra control, far more so than her team-mates, and was probably the brightest member of Team 7, just like Tsunade. Obviously, as the Sannin began teaching Team 7, they showed even more similar skills. Naruto could summon toads [1] use rasengan attacks [1] and even enter sage mode [1] . Sasuke could summon snakes [1] becomes proficient with kenjutsu [1] and inherits white snake-abilities [1] Sakura gains monstrous superhuman strength [1] powerful medical ninjutsu [1] and her masters refusal to give up. [1]  As if all this weren’t enough, Team 7’s sensei; Kakashi, was taught by the 4th Hokage, who in turn was taught by Jiraiya, one of the three Sannin. It’s safe to say some of Minato’s methods will have been passed down from one ninja to another, meaning in theory Team 7 will have learned something similar to what he had been taught by his own teacher, Jiraiya. 




*III. Plot Resemblances​*
With that out of the way, we are brought into the actual plot. The Sannin, as of the beginning of Part II, are more or less a superior version of Team 7. They serve the purpose of giving Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura someone to live up to, follow, learn from and eventually surpass, following the tradition that the younger generation will always surpass the old. I think this is the most interesting part of the similarities between Team 7 and the Sannin, because there is a lot of relevant material that links the two together, that was very easy for all of us to overlook. 

As before, lets start with the obvious. From the moment Naruto enters Konoha and meets Sakura, their new skills, particularly Sakura’s, are quickly shown off. [1] It’s quite clear that Sakura is even more like Tsunade now. In fact, I believe a huge factor of the first arc was to show off Sakura, perhaps more so than Naruto and obviously Sasuke who did not appear in it. More specifically, I think the first arc was to show Sakura is; as I said before, more like Tsunade than ever before. 

Soon after being assigned with rescuing Gaara, and being paired up with Chiyo – Tsunade’s rival [who quickly compares Sakura to Tsunade.[1]]; she must fight Akatsuki senior Sasori to the death. This fight, besides the fact that it shows off Sakura’s medical ninjutsu and huge strength, features moments very similar to the Sannin fight, where Tsunade had to face off against Orochimaru [who was also Sasori’s partner – coincidence? I think not.] For example, do you recall Tsunade throwing herself in front of a sword , to protect a defenceless Naruto? [1] Well, oddly, Sakura seems to unexpectedly throw herself before Sasori’s blade to protect a defenceless Chiyo from assured death. [1] Sasori also comments on Sakura’s incredible healing ability, in that she recovered from the damage the sword inflicted almost as soon as it impaled her. [1] Similarly, Orochimaru was in shock at how quickly Tsunade healed her own injuries. [1] Also, do you remember how the Sannin match ended? Tsunade landed a bone shattering blow to Orochimaru’s jaw after pulling him forwards her with his long tongue. [1] How did Sakura defeat Sasori? She used his harpoon to drag him into close quarters and then landed a strike to his jaw, blowing him up. [1] [although he still lived, it was by virtue of having an entirely different skill set to Orochimaru, the ability to reconstruct his body at will] 

On a somewhat unrelated note, throughout this arc, and indeed all of Part II, Sakura slowly grows closer to Naruto [1] One could speculate a romance brewing in the near future. In the case of Tsunade, by the time she confessed to her feelings about Jiraiya, it was too late. [1] Taking all of their similarities into account, could Sakura meet the same fate with Naruto?​[/font]


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## Godaime Tsunade (Mar 2, 2012)

*IV. Plot Resemblances Cont.​​​*

Naruto and Jiraiya have a lot of plot links to each other. Even as a child, it was said Jiraiya had created a a perverted ninjutsu, and that his sensei; Hiruzen, had taken interest. [1] Naruto obviously created the Sexy jutsu in his youth, and Jiraiya _[his own teacher]_ took interest. Also, as a child, Naruto and Jiraiya were both the only members of their team who failed their teachers bell test, being bound to a log. [1] [2] As the series progresses, we learn that they share the same belief as each other, the desire to never give up [1] When facing against Pein, both Naruto and Jiraiya had entered Sage Mode in order to counter his techniques. [1] [2] And even more similarly, both were defeated by Pein, by being impaled with too many metal rods. [1] [2] _[Naruto would have, had it not been for Hinata]_ Both Jiraiya and Naruto failed to return their team-mates from evil, Orochimaru and Sasuke were forever rogue from Konoha and did not return. [1] [2] Although Naruto has not given up on bringing Sasuke back yet, is there a chance he will never return back to Konoha?

Sasuke?s relation to Orochimaru is fairly significant to begin with, besides the fact that he uses similar jutsu, he is brutal, often using over-kill methods in battle : he has no patience in combat, just like his master. [1] However, throughout Part II, Sasuke grows further and further apart from his master, he doesn?t follow his methods, he doesn?t live to be like him, he branches off into his own world, creates his own ideals and follows his own path, no one else seems to influence him much. In fact, by the time Sasuke fights Itachi, and unlike Orochimaru; *wins*, all traces of Orochimaru?s jutsu have been absorbed and sealed away by the totsuka sword. It?s almost as if Sasuke was never taught by Orochimaru at all. Ironically, in retrospect, Orochimaru also deserted his own master, Hiruzen, and no longer lived to follow his ideals and please him, so in some ways this makes both characters rather similar. 

It?s odd that Naruto and Sakura are so similar to their sensei, but Sasuke isn?t. It just doesn?t really fit with whole Team 7/Sannin theme. However, [this is where my own personal opinion takes in, more than anything else] perhaps Naruto and Sakura are not as similar to Jiraiya and Tsunade as we think? Sure, they have the querks, and they have a few similar skills and a lot of plot links, but lets take a step back. Naruto?s original skill was mass shadow clones and of course his control of the kyuubi, and in recent chapters this is almost all he has used, Jiraiya didn?t base his abilities around either of these skills. Sasuke is of course using sharingan and chidori element attacks, which was what he also originally used, again, Orochimaru couldn?t use either. I think Sakura is an exception here, because unlike her team-mates she did not excel in any area which Tsunade didn?t as a child, but perhaps the fact that she did not come from a Senju, Uzumaki or Uchiha background is what makes her different from Tsunade, she was never exceptional, she was intended to be as normal as possible. 

However, I must stress, even despite their differences ? for reasons already explained there is undeniable relations between the Sannin and Team 7, but with Sasuke out of the equation, how could the team ever reunite and finally form the perfect rebirth of the Legendary Sannin? Well, that?s where plot relevance comes back into play. What arc are we in currently? A war arc. Do you remember how the Sannin rose to fame? During war. Naruto is arguably already famous, everyone in the united forces knows of him and his talents. Sasuke is an international criminal, everyone is aware of how much of a danger he is. As for Sakura? She?s the main heroine, and even if not the most combat orientated, she is a skilled medic. She is likely to do something impressive in the medical field, which will allow members of the shinobi forces to know her name and learn of her talents, it was medical talents that initially brought Tsunade to fame after all. 

So what if you ask me, ? So what if Team 7 are famous? Then what? ? Well, the Sannin gained their _title_ from fighting Hanzo, _together_ . Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura [whether she she does much in combat or not] fighting together, against the big bad boss, as one of the final acts in the manga, would be the ultimate way of showing how Team 7 has surpassed the original Sannin. It would also show that Team 7 are capable of doing what their masters could not, putting their difficulties [Sasuke?s treacherous deeds] behind them, and re-uniting. This would also show that Naruto has fought hatred with peace, and won, and Sakura did not watch from the background this time. And being that Team 7 are much younger than the Sannin, than when they first entered war, it would re-iterate the theme of the younger generation surpassing the old. And would link in with things like, Sakura [an amateur] protecting Chiyo [a veteran] despite Tsunade [a veteran] protecting Naruto [an amateur] ie. The younger generation protects the older one, rather than the other way around like before. 

*V. Conclusion​*
I think pitting Team 7 against Tobi would be the ultimate way to end the manga, even more so than a Valley of the End Rasengan vs Chidori scene, as in Part I. For it would involve and close up so many themes and ideas opened throughout both Part I and Part II made by Kishimoto, where as the VOTE ending is mainly down to the power struggle between Naruto and Sasuke, and nothing else significant.

My essay is coming to a close, but I?d like to leave you with a few questions, explored throughout my thoughts, if you are answering them, please take into consideration what has already been said throughout my essay. I?m sure this will give you something to think about.

*1)* Will Naruto die? And if so, will Sakura be too late in confessing her true feelings?
*2)* Will Sasuke meet an untimely death like his master Orochimaru?
*3)* Assuming he lives, will Sasuke ever return to Konoha?
*3)* Will Sakura ever surpass her master by the end of the manga?
*4)* Will Team 7 re-unite in order to defeat the final villan? Or will the VOTE fight between Naruto and Sasuke be the final act? Or perhaps both?

I hope you enjoyed the read, and I hope this gives you some room for thought on the matter! ​


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## Ino Yamanaka (Mar 2, 2012)

Very detailed... A+


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## TheMaskedMan (Mar 2, 2012)

First off, let me congratulate you for typing all that up! ><
I can just picture you sipping your tea after each paragraph 

As you mentioned at first, we all saw the similarities between team 7 and the legendary sanin since part 1.

But the questions you raised are interesting, I for one believe this..

*Sakuras love* - The connection between Naruto and Sakura in part one is blatantly a mirrored version of J-man and Tsunade when they were young. As of now it's safe to say Sakura may not have deep feelings for sasuke like she used to, but is still weak hearted when it comes to killing him.
When naruto defeated pain Sakura's emotions burst out (Punch>hug) which proves he means alot to her.
But in terms of LOVE there is nothing yet, I mean when she was healing Hinata during pains defeat she said "Hinata... You really love naruto?" and she didn't seem fazed by hinatas confession of love but seemed more envious.

*Naruto* - Naruto carries minato, J-man and nagato's will. Nothing more needs to be said.
But regarding him Bringing sasuke back to Konoha like J-man trying to bring back orochimaru....
J-man failed. 
So did Naruto (part one)
History repeated itself, so in other words sasuke might not comeback.

*Sasuke*- He can't die like Oro, I believe sasuke will die as a legend.
He is as important as naruto in this story, many rogue ninjas died as a failure or worse. And some respectfully.
I'd like sasuke to fight naruto (fated fight) which should be before the final showdown.
Naruto ends up standing, and has to face tobi/(and) or juubi etc. And during this point after exchanging fist with naruto he realises the truth. Maybe itachi talks to sasuke in depth and thinks about his words etc, and He shall redeem himself by using the last of his chakra to destroy Tobi/(and) or Juubi.

What I believe is team 7 is like the next legendary sannin but they will be greater! 
Sasuke will switch back (Oro didn't)
Sakura medical ninjutsu ad strength is as awesome as Tsunade and she's not even senju!
Naruto will find peace!


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## CandleGuy (Mar 2, 2012)

This thread will go *platinum *for pairing reasons if it doesn't get landfill'd


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## Briella (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm tired of people trying to find resemblances... Kishimoto intended to make resemblances, we shouldn't even be trying to look for them. They're obvious.


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## Sinista Chakra (Mar 2, 2012)

i really liked this. now that you mentioned it i would like to see team 7 fight together at least one last time before the series is over. that would be epic. against tobi maybe?


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## Bitty (Mar 2, 2012)

nice! very well done naruto is basically jiraiya's mini me.


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## Kunoichiwa (Mar 2, 2012)

I think having Tsunade show what could be romantic feelings for Jiraiya might have been Kishi giving Jiraiya a bone before he died. Doesn't guarantee Sakura's feelings for Naruto are or will be romantic. I'm not saying that Sakura could never feel that way about Naruto, I'm just saying that it isn't a guarantee.


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## Spock (Mar 2, 2012)

I can't wait for Kakashi to get slaughtered by Sasuke.


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## tnorbo (Mar 2, 2012)

I really don't see how sasuke and oro have anything in common. I mean their both villians, but their actions and motivations are completely different.


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## Sniffers (Mar 2, 2012)

Indeed, the Sannin and Team 7 are very strongly tied. Nice read! I'd like to mention that Kakashi compared his position to Hiruzen's when he decided to confront Sasuke.

Totsuka sealed most of Orochimaru's powers, but not all. Kusanagi is something Sasuke clearly inherited from Orochimaru and he still uses it all the time. Sasuke's fashion style was also influenced by the Sannin and his treatment of his underlings also reminds of Orochimaru. So while I agree that Sasuke is no longer a carbon copy, he still has some characteristics of his master.

I feel the main characters outgrew their Sannin counterparts. With Sasuke it's the most obvious when he was 'cleansed' of CS and Hebi powers, but with Naruto it seems that Sage Mode is taking a backseat for Kyuubi Modes as well. [It still gets used here and there, but only by clones to supplement to original who is in KCM.]

Perhaps Sakura will also soon outgrow Tsunade, however, unlike Naruto and Sasuke, she doesn't have a benchmark beyond her master. She'll probably get left behind, but it would appear that ever since Sage Mode and Hebi powers the main characters have added a little 'more' to the powers of their Sannin masters to distinguish themselves. It would be nice if the three of them fight the final villain, though I wish there is room for Kakashi as well.


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## TheMaskedMan (Mar 2, 2012)

tnorbo said:


> I really don't see how sasuke and oro have anything in common. I mean their both villians, but their actions and motivations are completely different.



- Both left Konoha
- Both became criminals
- Both hungry for power
- Both want(ed) to destroy Konoha.
- Master and student...

They're pretty similar


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## Lovely (Mar 2, 2012)

I really think the Sannin parallels worked out better during the beginnings of Shippuden. Not so much now.


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## Soljah (Mar 2, 2012)

Neo Sannin (naru,sasuke,sakura) basically are the original sannin but better.  Naruto will exceed everywhere Jiraiya failed tho however.  Sasuke won't stay on the twisted path he's  on like Orochimaru did, and Sakura will probably love sasuke but choose naruto for the right reason/situation when it comes to it. I think its already a given that team 7 will truly reunite at least once more for a final battle against someone.


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## Fay (Mar 2, 2012)

tnorbo said:


> I really don't see how sasuke and oro have anything in common. I mean their both villians, but their actions and motivations are completely different.



This. And the moment Sasuke become a "hawk" any resembling they might have had was gone.


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## princess of iwagakure (Mar 2, 2012)

Was a very good read! It's a pity that obsessed pairing fans will bash your essay for pairing reasons when this isn't about pairings, but more about the resemblance of Team 7 and the Sannin.

I also thought that the Neo Sannin are going to fight together at the end. But the more the story progressed the more it focused on the brotherly bond between Naruto and Sasuke. Kishi has a tendency to show strong brotherly bonds by how much they _neglect_ the female character. This can be shown at the hospital rooftop fight, or the team 7 reunion. Naruto basically doesn't want Sakura to interrupt his interactions with Sasuke, and wants her to leave it to him. Thus showing us, how nothing should come between a "brother's bond". And since, bonds are the main theme of the story, I believe Naruto will fight Tobi with Sasuke(and him only) so the focus stays on the brotherly bond of Naruto and Sasuke. 

Some other parts I loved about your essay
-The resemblance of Sasuke and Orochimaru is definitely true. In the end, Orochimaru killed his teacher only to be killed by his beloved student. Their intentions of seeking power are similar, even though the reasons behind it are different. Unlike Naruto, they both believe that skill and power are what matters. Their philosophy are nearly equals. The moment he left Orochimaru, and made "hawk" was a symbol of him supassing the "snake" master. 

Some parts that I think may change from your essay
-In your essay, it was stated that Sakura is the exception, with being the only one that will stay resembling Tsunade in terms of attacks and skills unlike the other two. But if this were the case, I doubt Kishi wouldn't have shown her genjutsu capabilities 5 times over(part 1 bell test, part 2 bell test, chuunin exam, sand sound invasion, repelling itachi's genjutsu on Naruto). Just like how, Sasuke uses Chidori and Sharingan, Naruto uses Kagebunshin, her genjutsu abilities may be a skill that she uses that will differentiate her from the master.


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## Boob (Mar 2, 2012)

CutieBaTootie said:


> I'm tired of people trying to find resemblances... Kishimoto intended to make resemblances, we shouldn't even be trying to look for them. They're obvious.



This.

There are a lot of really obvious resemblances that doesn't need to be pointed out. One of them is the topic of this thread.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks for reading guys, and I've loved reading all of your own thoughts. 



*Spoiler*: __ 



♫ And I truely believe that my haters are my motivators ♫


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## Fay (Mar 3, 2012)

My thoughts OP:
I think the sannin comparison is something for the old plot of the manga, where Orochimaru was supposed to be the final villain. 
At some point in time Kishimoto changed his mind and gave Sasuke and Naruto other resemblances that became the second plot of the manga: Madara and Hashirama (Sakura being left out).
A little while later Kishimoto completely broke with the first plot and changed Sasuke's resemblance from Ororchimaru to something else. This is highlighted in the manga by Sasuke's snake-hawk speach as well as Sasuke becoming a "hawk" after his talk with Tobi.
Much later, again a new plot was developed where Naruto alone had a new resemblance : Rikudo Sennin. Sakura again being left out, and Sasuke's path becoming his own choice (as the manga has stated in latest chapter).

With 3 resemblance plot changes, I personally feel it's save to say that the sannin comparison is outdated and doesn't work anymore on these 3 characters.
People on this forum seem to be fan of thinking Kishimoto will make the character's plot exactly like their predecessors. I however feel like he's trying to purposely create a new road for his main characters. Of course this is my perspective.


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## tnorbo (Mar 3, 2012)

Fay said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



exactly

the sannin comparison may have been valid but those days are long over.


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## Fear (Mar 3, 2012)

I didn't read any of that

But I'm just going to go ahead and say well done


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## UltimateDeadpool (Mar 3, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade, don't forget that neither Naruto or Jiraiya had parents and both had a rivalry with their teammates. Naruto was in a sense also named after what was essentially Jiraiya's alias in a book that Minato regarded as Jiraiya's autobiography.


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## WT (Mar 3, 2012)

Fear said:


> I didn't read any of that
> 
> But I'm just going to go ahead and say well done



That's what I did


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## Raiden (Mar 3, 2012)

Really good thread, OP. Takes me back to mid 07. Have some rep.


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## Ghost (Mar 3, 2012)

Eli said:


> I can't wait for Kakashi to get slaughtered by Sasuke.



 

gtfo


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## αce (Mar 3, 2012)

Team 7 against the final villain would be cool, but don't hold your breath. Tsunade can hardly do anything to Madara, and as of right now, she's leagues ahead of Sakura.

The final villain will be stronger than current Madara. Sakura would either need a time skip or serious power inflation


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## Last Rose of Summer (Mar 3, 2012)

Eli said:


> I can't wait for Kakashi to get slaughtered by Sasuke.



I can't wait to see Kakashi using Shiki Fuujin.


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## PDQ (Mar 3, 2012)

Rather than the parallels being intended to show that everything's the same(which would be boring), they're supposed to show how times have changed.  By grounding their base in a historical trio, they MUST forge their own path to have any relevance.


Fay said:


> This. And the moment Sasuke become a "hawk" any resembling they might have had was gone.


They're supposed to represent how the new generation surpasses the old.  Each of them has a way in which they'll go beyond what their teacher did.
Sasuke has gone from a Snake to a Hawk
Naruto has gone from a Frog to a Fox(having completed Bijuu Mode)
Sakura has the potential to go from slug to a clam (which is to say, from medical jutsu to genjutsu according to Kakashi)


Godaime Tsunade said:


> I think Sakura is an exception here, because unlike her team-mates she did not excel in any area which Tsunade didn?t as a child, but perhaps the fact that she did not come from a Senju, Uzumaki or Uchiha background is what makes her different from Tsunade, she was never exceptional, she was intended to be as normal as possible.


While the lack of clan baggage is why she is so like her master in abilities, that doesn't speak for her future.  Kakashi basically was an author surrogate in telling us that her future for surpassing her master lies in genjutsu:
_again_
He says in no uncertain terms that's what differentiates them.  Clearly he's implying Tsuande is not a genjutsu type while Sakura is.


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## Rios (Mar 3, 2012)

Weird animal symbolism only asians understand.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Mar 3, 2012)

PDQ said:


> They're supposed to represent how the new generation surpasses the old.  Each of them has a way in which they'll go beyond what their teacher did.
> Sasuke has gone from a Snake to a Hawk
> Naruto has gone from a Frog to a Fox(having completed Bijuu Mode)
> Sakura has the potential to go from slug to a clam (which is to say, from medical jutsu to genjutsu according to Kakashi)



Very nice thought. Expect Sakura didn't reach slug yet. Let alone clam.


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## PDQ (Mar 3, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Very nice thought. Expect Sakura didn't reach slug yet. Let alone clam.


I meant that symbolically, that she's going from Tsunade's medical techniques to genjutsu.  The fact that Tsunade hasn't even used Katsuyu herself against Madara says something about the reluctance to summon.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Mar 3, 2012)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> Godaime Tsunade, don't forget that neither Naruto or Jiraiya had parents and both had a rivalry with their teammates. Naruto was in a sense also named after what was essentially Jiraiya's alias in a book that Minato regarded as Jiraiya's autobiography.



This is true, good addition Deadpool :33



President Goobang said:


> Really good thread, OP. Takes me back to mid 07. Have some rep.



Thank you 



PDQ said:


> Rather than the parallels being intended to show that everything's the same(which would be boring), they're supposed to show how times have changed.  By grounding their base in a historical trio, they MUST forge their own path to have any relevance.
> 
> They're supposed to represent how the new generation surpasses the old.  Each of them has a way in which they'll go beyond what their teacher did.
> Sasuke has gone from a Snake to a Hawk
> ...



I think this is an excellent theory as well. And very plausible.

Not everything in my OP's were set in stone, a lot of it was just my personal opinion or thoughts thrown into an essay, so disagree with whatever parts you like, I think its interesting to see how other people's thoughts on certain aspects of the Team 7 x Sannin relation differ from my own.​


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## Last Rose of Summer (Mar 3, 2012)

PDQ said:


> I meant that symbolically, that she's going from Tsunade's medical techniques to genjutsu.  The fact that Tsunade hasn't even used Katsuyu herself against Madara says something about the reluctance to summon.



Naruto and Sasuke don't/didn't stand _just symbolically_ with Orochimaru and Jiraiya - influences showed in their _techniques_. She really should learn summoning tech... Not to mention of elemental training.

Sakura was "ignored" also in regards to Kakashi's mentorship: Sasuke carries his legacy of Chidori - a technique strongly tied with usage of Sharingan, a gift from Obito, making it very personal. Kakashi helped Naruto with elemental training and showed him the way to take over Minato's legacy and surpass Yondaime by creating Fuuton Rasen Shuriken - also very personal for both sensei and student.

And Sakura?  She could have inherited Kakashi's dogs' summonings. It would have helped her in her job as medical ninja.

Sakura won't surpass Tsunade by leaving the slug-theme in favor of clam-theme: she's not very interested in genjutsu-training and there's no really much of manga-time for Kishi to pull it in not ass-pullish way.

But as I wrote: it's very nice idea with the symbolism transition you proposed.


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## Archangel Michael (Mar 3, 2012)

I think everyone know that team 7 resemblance to sannin and hiruzen .


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## princess of iwagakure (Mar 3, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Sakura won't surpass Tsunade by leaving the slug-theme in favor of clam-theme: she's not very interested in genjutsu-training and there's no really much of manga-time for Kishi to pull it in not ass-pullish way.
> 
> But as I wrote: it's very nice idea with the symbolism transition you proposed.


When was it shown that she definitely does not want to do genjutsu-training? And if we don't have the character panel of "I am interested in training this!" does that automatically mean that character is not interested? 

We've never seen Sasuke interested in Chidori training, we were only shown that _after_ he showed his skills. 

We've never seen Sakura interested in genjutsu training, yet we were shown that Kakashi taught her _after_ she showed the genjutsu repelling technique during the Sand-Sound invasion. Her training with Tsunade was also shown _after_ she showed her skills.

So I seriously don't know the problem here. Only the main character has the glory to have a training panel before he gains that skill.


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## PDQ (Mar 3, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Naruto and Sasuke don't/didn't stand _just symbolically_ with Orochimaru and Jiraiya - influences showed in their _techniques_. She really should learn summoning tech...


I agree she should learn summoning.  But it's hard to expect Sakura to learn summoning when Tsunade herself rarely summons.  Naruto and Sasuke learned to summon because their teachers use it all the time so it seems obvious.


> Sakura was "ignored" also in regards to Kakashi's mentorship: Sasuke carries his legacy of Chidori - a technique strongly tied with usage of Sharingan, a gift from Obito, making it very personal. Kakashi helped Naruto with elemental training and showed him the way to take over Minato's legacy and surpass Yondaime by creating Fuuton Rasen Shuriken - also very personal for both sensei and student.


Part 1 Kakashi focused on Sasuke while ignoring Naruto, Part 2 has been focused on Naruto, perhaps Sakura's training will happen after the next time skip (an epilogue, perhaps?)

Kakashi did apparently teach Sakura some basic genjutsu(at least defense) at some point off screen, he refers to a "genin survival training" where it happened(which wouldn't describe the bell test)
ALL


> Sakura won't surpass Tsunade by leaving the slug-theme in favor of clam-theme: she's not very interested in genjutsu-training and there's no really much of manga-time for Kishi to pull it in not ass-pullish way.


I don't think it's that she's not interested so much as she hasn't had a very strong genjutsu teacher available(although with Kurenai raising a child, she'd have time available).  As I pointed out above, Kakashi did figure out she had a knack for genjutsu early on before the chuunin exams so she must've shown some interest.

It'd be somewhat hard to sneak in training although Naruto's managed at least 4 separate training sessions(FRS, SM, KCM, Bijuudama) over a short period of time.  Sakura herself is supposed to be very talented, coming very far in 3 months:
ALL
She even gained strength that Shizune couldn't

I think one way of training her would be taking advantage of the fact that genjutsu is primarily intellectual according to Jiraiya, she could do mental training.  We've seen genjutsu can expand seconds into days of mental time, and even Inoichi can cause others to live days of memories in seconds.  Given she's said to have a knack for genjutsu


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## kmccaskill (Mar 3, 2012)

Not really, there seems to be a Sanin format on each team

arrogant perfectionist

goofy dreamer

smart Kunoichi


just look at each team


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## Last Rose of Summer (Mar 4, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 





princess of iwagakure said:


> When was it shown that  she definitely does not want to do genjutsu-training? And if we don't  have the character panel of "I am interested in training this!" does  that automatically mean that character is not interested?
> 
> We've never seen Sasuke interested in Chidori training, we were only shown that _after_ he showed his skills.
> 
> ...






 She’s not interested as in: she has never expressed any desire to move her ass and ask Kurenai to teach her. Opposed to Naruto’s moving his ass and asking Asuma for help with Fuuton training. You can blame Kishi. 

  Kakashi after the time-skip commented on her progress listing her medical abilities, smashy-smashy and… genjutsu _talent_ *NOT* _*training*_ she has supposedly received. He said what she can do and for what she has talent.

 By feats her genjutsu didn't progress (compared to Part 1) beyond disspelling: Kakashi's illusion and freeing Naruto from Itachi's clone genjutsu (with Chiyo's help).



PDQ said:


> I agree she should learn summoning.  But it's hard to expect Sakura to learn summoning when Tsunade herself rarely summons.  Naruto and Sasuke learned to summon because their teachers use it all the time so it seems obvious.



 I’m sorry but it’s bullshit explanation: are you trying to tell me a teacher only teaches his/her student techniques he/she uses *frequently*? How come Naruto has ever learnt Rasengan, if Jiraiya didn't spam it like crazy?

  Plus we have seen Oro summon Manda like… once? J-man and Tsunade are summons spammers compared to Oro.

  By this logic Sakura uses Tsunade’s beauty tech 24/7, because that’s what her sensei keeps at work all the time.



PDQ said:


> Part 1 Kakashi focused on Sasuke while ignoring Naruto, Part 2 has been focused on Naruto, perhaps Sakura's training will happen after the next time skip (an epilogue, perhaps?)



 Nothing will happen. Kishi forgot she exists (in the plan of grand plot).


*Spoiler*: __ 





PDQ said:


> Kakashi did apparently teach Sakura some basic genjutsu(at least defense) at some point off screen, he refers to a "genin survival training" where it happened(which wouldn't describe the bell test)
> "Blah blah blah.. Now i truly understand how you felt... You made me become aware.I decided i wish to be like you as well Naruto-kun"
> 
> 
> ...






 What I said to user “princess of iwagakure”.


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## Agony (Mar 4, 2012)

This basically just killed the itachi and jiraiya comparison.

oro=jiraiya
Sasuke= naruto
Itachi=minato


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## PDQ (Mar 4, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Kakashi after the time-skip commented on her progress listing her medical abilities, smashy-smashy and? genjutsu _talent_ *NOT* _*training*_ she has supposedly received. He said what she can do and for what she has talent.


"Blah blah blah.. Now i truly understand how you felt... You made me become aware.I decided i wish to be like you as well Naruto-kun" 

She did technically receive training.  Maybe not much, but Kakashi did do it and that's *how* he knows she has talent.


> I?m sorry but it?s bullshit explanation: are you trying to tell me a teacher only teaches his/her student techniques he/she uses *frequently*? How come Naruto has ever learnt Rasengan, if Jiraiya didn't spam it like crazy?


Ok, things they use frequently *or* their student passed on to them for them to pass on to their former student's son.


> Plus we have seen Oro summon Manda like? once? J-man and Tsunade are summons spammers compared to Oro.


Have you ever seen him fight?  99% of what he does is snake themed.
Manda isn't his only summon.  As we know from Naruto, summoning contracts work for the entire *species*(frog, snake, slug, etc)
"Blah blah blah.. Now i truly understand how you felt... You made me become aware.I decided i wish to be like you as well Naruto-kun" 

"Blah blah blah.. Now i truly understand how you felt... You made me become aware.I decided i wish to be like you as well Naruto-kun" 

"Blah blah blah.. Now i truly understand how you felt... You made me become aware.I decided i wish to be like you as well Naruto-kun" 

Orochimaru summoned the giant snakes
He uses hidden snake hands *constantly*
He has a snake with the Sword of Kusanagi in it's mouth
He uses this:
"Blah blah blah.. Now i truly understand how you felt... You made me become aware.I decided i wish to be like you as well Naruto-kun" 

His true body is that of a snake.  His ultimate jutsu is a multi-headed snake.  The last couple may not all be "summons" per se, but they're all snakes.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Mar 4, 2012)

PDQ said:


> "Blah blah blah.. Now i truly understand how you felt... You made me become aware.I decided i wish to be like you as well Naruto-kun"
> 
> She did technically receive training.  Maybe not much, but Kakashi did do it and that's *how* he knows she has talent.



 But I agree Kakashi knows she has talent. Maybe he learned her some basics, but the problem is he states time and time again it’s _only talent_, not that she trains her ass to make use of it.

  So what you have talent for sport? You won’t win Olympics when you don’t train. No matter how many times you are said to be talented… till you reach elderly age and people still talk about your talent, not about your achievements. 



PDQ said:


> Ok, things they use frequently *or* their student passed on to them for them to pass on to their former student's son.



 Meaning for Sakura: Tsunade doesn’t care to pass a contract with Katsuyu to someone?  The summon saved the whole Konoha you know.



PDQ said:


> Have you ever seen him fight?  99% of what he does is snake themed.
> Manda isn't his only summon.  As we know from Naruto, summoning contracts work for the entire *species*(frog, snake, slug, etc)
> "Blah blah blah.. Now i truly understand how you felt... You made me become aware.I decided i wish to be like you as well Naruto-kun"
> 
> ...



OK, I actually thougt only od big three summons.


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## Whirlpool (Mar 4, 2012)

Oh shit NaruHina fans at the ready 

I always loved the Team Seven/Sannin parallel, but nowadays, it seems like HashiMadaMito now


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## rebeci (Mar 4, 2012)

I think certain resemblances are created by Kishi on purpose. Like the whole sensei/ student relationship and the simlarities in character development. But know, he kind of dropped the subject


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## tnorbo (Mar 4, 2012)

Agony said:


> This basically just killed the itachi and jiraiya comparison.
> 
> oro=jiraiya
> Sasuke= naruto
> Itachi=minato



how did you get this out of anything stated in the thread


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## PDQ (Mar 4, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> But I agree Kakashi knows she has talent. Maybe he learned her some basics, but the problem is he states time and time again it’s _only talent_, not that she trains her ass to make use of it.


She hasn't *yet*.  I think she'll develop genjutsu some time before Naruto merges Bijuu Mode with Sage Mode.  Perhaps she has to wait for Tsunade to die before taking on a new teacher because she doesn't want to disrespect the Hokage (like how Naruto only starting learning Sage Mode after Jiraiya died)

Sure, she hasn't asked Kurenai, but it's probably because asking Asuma about Fuuton is asking for a tip about only one element, not all 5 elements + Yin/Yang + spatial manipulation.  Naruto had the basics of ninjutsu with summoning, Rasengan and KB already whereas Sakura has to learn genjutsu almost *from scratch*.  That's a lot to ask from someone who *isn't even your official teacher* outside of an emergency.  

See this thread for how she could be made to learn genjutsu incredibly quickly:



> Meaning for Sakura: Tsunade doesn’t care to pass a contract with Katsuyu to someone?


Someone who hesitates to use a summon only in cases of extreme emergencies probably would be hesitant to just give it to a chuunin.  Perhaps Sakura's chakra isn't high enough, since slugs only have a boss summon, unlike Sasuke summoning small snakes or Naruto summoning someone like Gamakichi, it's either a ridiculously big summon or nothing at all.


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## Mako (Mar 4, 2012)

Amazing thread/posts OP. Well thought.

I believe that Sasuke will end up returning one day, probably thanks to Team 7. However, it would mean that Sasuke would battle his teammates to be persuaded. 

I don't believe that the Sasuke vs. Naruto match will be the final arc.


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## princess of iwagakure (Mar 4, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> She?s not interested as in: she has never expressed any desire to move her ass and ask Kurenai to teach her. Opposed to Naruto?s moving his ass and asking Asuma for help with Fuuton training. You can blame Kishi.


Why are you so persistent to have a panel for asking Kurenai to teach her in genjutsu, or otherwise you will absolutely conclude that as "not interested"? 
We haven't seen a panel of whether or not she is interested in genjutsu, therefore it is forceful to conclude that she is interested or not. 

We have never seen a panel of Konohamaru asking Naruto to teach Rasengan. Therefore we cannot conclude that he wasn't interested. It was after he used it against Pain that we assumed it was Naruto teaching him.

We have never seen a panel of Sasuke asking Kakashi to teach Chidori in part 1. Therefore we cannot conclude that he didn't want to learn it. It was after he used it against Gaara that we knew Kakashi thought him.

And I think Kishi didn't leave a panel of these two asking their teacher to teach a specific jutsu because 1.) they are not the main character, 2.) it gives surprising effect to the readers. 



> Kakashi after the time-skip commented on her progress listing her medical abilities, smashy-smashy and? genjutsu _talent_ *NOT* _*training*_ she has supposedly received. He said what she can do and for what she has talent.


I didn't say he commented on her genjutsu _training_
Please read my comment again. 



> By feats her genjutsu didn't progress (compared to Part 1) beyond disspelling: Kakashi's illusion and freeing Naruto from Itachi's clone genjutsu (with Chiyo's help).


I didn't say her genjutsu ability progressed. Please read my comment again.

EDIT: I would like to know OP's opinion about my post in the first page, but where thy OP?


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## Godaime Tsunade (Mar 4, 2012)

princess of iwagakure said:


> I would like to know OP's opinion about my post in the first page, but where thy OP?



Sorry, there were so many posts, I didn't know where to begin. 



> Was a very good read! It's a pity that obsessed pairing fans will bash your essay for pairing reasons when this isn't about pairings, but more about the resemblance of Team 7 and the Sannin.



Thank you. 

And indeed, this is not a pairing thread. It's based on the parallels between the Sannin and Team 7, as if the title were not obvious enough 



> I also thought that the Neo Sannin are going to fight together at the end. But the more the story progressed the more it focused on the brotherly bond between Naruto and Sasuke. Kishi has a tendency to show strong brotherly bonds by how much they _neglect_ the female character. This can be shown at the hospital rooftop fight, or the team 7 reunion. Naruto basically doesn't want Sakura to interrupt his interactions with Sasuke, and wants her to leave it to him. Thus showing us, how nothing should come between a "brother's bond". And since, bonds are the main theme of the story, I believe Naruto will fight Tobi with Sasuke(and him only) so the focus stays on the brotherly bond of Naruto and Sasuke.



Sakura is; as I mentioned already, not as combat orientated as her team-mates, and before powerful villains, she is practically canon fodder in her current state. However, I'd like to think her medical abilities ie. the thing that will make her famous, will be enough to provide Naruto and Sasuke with notable help while fighting - whoever it is that becomes the final villain. 



> Some other parts I loved about your essay
> -The resemblance of Sasuke and Orochimaru is definitely true. In the end, Orochimaru killed his teacher only to be killed by his beloved student. Their intentions of seeking power are similar, even though the reasons behind it are different. Unlike Naruto, they both believe that skill and power are what matters. Their philosophy are nearly equals. The moment he left Orochimaru, and made "hawk" was a symbol of him supassing the "snake" master.



I'm glad you enjoyed it 



> Some parts that I think may change from your essay
> -In your essay, it was stated that Sakura is the exception, with being the only one that will stay resembling Tsunade in terms of attacks and skills unlike the other two. But if this were the case, I doubt Kishi wouldn't have shown her genjutsu capabilities 5 times over(part 1 bell test, part 2 bell test, chuunin exam, sand sound invasion, repelling itachi's genjutsu on Naruto). Just like how, Sasuke uses Chidori and Sharingan, Naruto uses Kagebunshin, her genjutsu abilities may be a skill that she uses that will differentiate her from the master.



Possibly. It would be excellent writing, to have all three members develop unique skills that allow them to surpass their masters. The problem with Sakura is that unlike her team-mates, she never surpassed her teacher in the style that they were taught by. ie. Sakura's taijutsu and medical ninjutsu are still inferior to Tsunade's. So, if she suddenly gained incredible skill in genjutsu, it would feel a bit as though Sakura's parallel to Tsunade was ditched altogether.​


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## Crowned Clown (Mar 4, 2012)

Dammit, if Sakura isn't fighting along the Naruto and Sasuke at the end I am going to be pissed. I don't care if she is healer/support class, she needs to be there.


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## princess of iwagakure (Mar 5, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Sorry, there were so many posts, I didn't know where to begin.


That's alright


> Sakura is; as I mentioned already, not as combat orientated as her team-mates, and before powerful villains, she is practically canon fodder in her current state. However, I'd like to think her medical abilities ie. the thing that will make her famous, will be enough to provide Naruto and Sasuke with notable help while fighting - whoever it is that becomes the final villain.


Well actually, I wasn't really talking about her skills but more about the bonds. I don't think her skills will get in the way of her fight because, like you said, she can help Naruto and Sasuke's fighting by healing them.

The bonds, however, is the reason I think she will not participate in the last fight. Since the latter half of part 2, Kishi has focused his story on brotherly bonds, the fight between the elder brother and the younger brother. From this, I assume that the ending of the story will have the elder brother and the younger brother united. And what better way of showing it than having Naruto and Sasuke fight together against Tobi? I think ending the fight with the "two brothers vs final villain" goes well with the message Kishi has put through part 2 instead of having "new sannin vs final villain". 



> Possibly. It would be excellent writing, to have all three members develop unique skills that allow them to surpass their masters. The problem with Sakura is that unlike her team-mates, she never surpassed her teacher in the style that they were taught by. ie. Sakura's taijutsu and medical ninjutsu are still inferior to Tsunade's. So, if she suddenly gained incredible skill in genjutsu, it would feel a bit as though Sakura's parallel to Tsunade was ditched altogether.


Come to think of it I think you are right, that will ditch Sakura's parallel to Tsunade. But then again, it's hard to think that he will ditch the foreshadowing of Sakura's genjutsu skill he showed us five times in the past.


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## Rios (Mar 5, 2012)

Some people fail to realize that being a medic is waaaaay easier than the actual fighting part. And I am not talking about a surgery in the middle of an enemy offensive. Its the manga's fault for portraying healing to be just "glow your hands and touch someone" thingy. The whole notion of Naruto and Sasuke running back to get touched is bleh, I'd rather see them overcoming the odds and fighting to the end without the need of medic.


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## princess of iwagakure (Mar 5, 2012)

Rios said:


> Some people fail to realize that being a medic is waaaaay easier than the actual fighting part. And I am not talking about a surgery in the middle of an enemy offensive. Its the manga's fault for portraying healing to be just "glow your hands and touch someone" thingy.


Naruto's rasengan is portrayed as "having a blue ball and touch someone" thingy.
Sasuke's chidori is portrayed as "having blue sparks and touch someone" thingy.
It must be waaaaay easy for these two.


> The whole notion of Naruto and Sasuke running back to get touched is bleh, I'd rather see them overcoming the odds and fighting to the end without the need of medic.


They don't have to run back to get touched. Sakura can go to them and heal one of them while the other is distracting the enemy. Tsunade's idea of having one medic per team wouldn't have become the basic formation if medics healing their teammates during battle were inefficient. Although, I do agree with your opinion that Naruto and Sasuke will only be fighting together against the final villain.


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## PDQ (Mar 5, 2012)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> The problem with Sakura is that unlike her team-mates, she never surpassed her teacher in the style that they were taught by. ie. Sakura's taijutsu and medical ninjutsu are still inferior to Tsunade's. So, if she suddenly gained incredible skill in genjutsu, it would feel a bit as though Sakura's parallel to Tsunade was ditched altogether.


Maybe Naruto did with Sage Mode, but Sasuke didn't really surpass Orochimaru in snakes(he didn't learn Hydra for example), he surpassed him in his own way.

Besides, Sakura has a lifetime to fully get up to Tsunade's level, it would be odd if she mastered 50 years of medicine and taijutsu in just 3 when she has no particular affinity for it other than pure talent.  Give it another dozen years at least.  But it doesn't matter, she's good *enough* to be almost indistinguishable in strength and her medical skills are greater than the Sand village's best and most likely every else in the world barring Shizune, Kabuto, and Tsunade, and further development will only have *diminishing returns*.  Naruto himself claimed when he was doing Bijuudama training that he *still* can't do Rasengan one-handed even though Jiraiya can do one in each hand simultaneously.  So she doesn't have to be better in everything.

On the other hand, diversifying her techniques to include genjutsu will give much more rapid gains.


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## Rios (Mar 5, 2012)

Both Naruto and Sasuke displayed more combat versatility in their fight at VotE than Sakura displayed during her crowning moment against Sasori. Of course I never implied that touching people is not important, its just all she can hope to do, unless the final villains are sleep bomb susceptible.


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## PDQ (Mar 5, 2012)

Rios said:


> Both Naruto and Sasuke displayed more combat versatility in their fight at VotE than Sakura displayed during her crowning moment against Sasori. Of course I never implied that touching people is not important, its just all she can hope to do, unless the final villains are sleep bomb susceptible.



Outside of their Kekkei Genkai and Bijuu powers which Sakura obviously doesn't have, it was basically Chidori vs. Rasengan.  They even named a chapter after it.  That's not much more versatile than Sakura's punches.  She even used an explosive note to protect herself from poison gas, that's something far outside the box in terms of versatility compared to them.

As for being a medic, they can use chakra scalpels, scramble up your nervous system, converting hair into flesh(Neji), curing poisons requiring hairline precision and a list of ingredients.  Oh, and they're not allowed to *ever* get hit.
Link removed
Link removed
Being a medic is not easier.


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## princess of iwagakure (Mar 5, 2012)

Rios said:


> Both Naruto and Sasuke displayed more combat versatility in their fight at VotE than Sakura displayed during her crowning moment against Sasori. Of course I never implied that touching people is not important, its just all she can hope to do, unless the final villains are sleep bomb susceptible.


I don't really understand

Skill wise Sakura isn't really the combat type, she's support. Therefore the only way Sakura can participate in a battle against the final villain is by healing her two teammates if they are to get fatal injuries. She isn't needed for the sleep bomb.


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## First Tsurugi (Mar 5, 2012)

The Sannin's relevance waned long ago, and with it any relevance of the parallels. All that matters now is the prophesy.

The final battle against Tobi will between him and Naruto only. It'll be a final battle between the destined child and the harbinger of disaster, of the light and the darkness.


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## Lelouch Vi Britannia (Mar 5, 2012)

I enjoyed that post, well done GT. Oh and also as for Tsuande not summoning Katsuyu, maybe she wil summon her soon now, but imo I think she gave Katsuyu to Sakura (in case Sakura summons her because she will need it more than Tsuande).


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## Mistshadow (Mar 5, 2012)

well typed, problem is you only looked at the focus of team 7 and teh sannin.

The thing is Team 7 is actually meant to resemble a COMBINATION of resemblances from ALL the main influential good characters.

Thus notice the hashirama madara resemblance in naruto sasuke.
Notice the destined child in nagato and minato we find in naruto.
Notice the goof off and genius in obito and kakashi we see in naruto and sasuke
Rikudou sennin in Naruto

List goes on. 

Kishi intentionally made various resemblances tovarious situations for this purpose so you can't just look at one teams outcome and say this is how it will end to mirror.


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## Ranma Saotome (Mar 5, 2012)

Excellent read 

I know they've grown, have different benchmarks, and all that stuff... but I really think that the essential theme is that it's up to them to get it right. The Sannin and their teacher, in various ways, got it wrong. Hiruzen should've recognized Jiraiya and gotten over his personal bias, Jiraiya should've been Hokage and not have given up on Oro, Orochimaru shouldn't have lost out to his darkness, Tsunade shouldn't have given up on so much due to scars from the past.

They're already off to a good start.. Kakashi recognized Naruto, Naruto hasn't given up on Sasuke, Sakura is moving on from her personal scars/mistakes and has crossed the bridge to at least opening the door to dealing with the love Naruto feels for her sooner than later rather than forever ignoring it(O snap did I just say something nice about Sakura?!  ), and seeing a sane Sasuke during his meeting with Itachi is seriously making me consider that he'll be redeemed still( unlike the impression that Evil-Eyed Sasuke left upon me ).


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## princess of iwagakure (Mar 5, 2012)

Winged Blade said:


> Excellent read
> 
> I know they've grown, have different benchmarks, and all that stuff... but I really think that the essential theme is that it's up to them to get it right. The Sannin and their teacher, in various ways, got it wrong. Hiruzen should've recognized Jiraiya and gotten over his personal bias, *Jiraiya should've been Hokage* and not have given up on Oro, Orochimaru shouldn't have lost out to his darkness, Tsunade shouldn't have given up on so much due to scars from the past.


Was it ever mentioned that Jiraiya wanted to be Hokage? I'm curious as to why you think Jiraiya should've been the Hokage.


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## Gabe (Mar 5, 2012)

^jiriaya did not want to become hokage because he saw himself as a failure because he could not save his teacher and student and always failed with tsunade. that is why he turned it down and went for tsunade instead. but naruto will suceed where he failed i guess this goes with this thread. i agree that team 7 is like the sannin but for naruto and sasuke right now they have surpassed their counter part and have moved to other benchmarks. but the sannin will always play an important role in them.


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## Ranma Saotome (Mar 6, 2012)

princess of iwagakure said:


> Was it ever mentioned that Jiraiya wanted to be Hokage? I'm curious as to why you think Jiraiya should've been the Hokage.



Gabe pretty much answered it. Jiraiya in a flashback mentioned his failures. It showed how incredibly hard he is on himself, and more or less hinted that he didn't think he deserved it.. but you could kind of tell he wanted it for himself. Man, it's been a while, I oughta reread the Pain arc.


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## Lelouch Vi Britannia (Mar 9, 2012)

RIP Jiraiya. My favorite character, who was killed by my other favorite. OH the dilemma. BUt Yeah I still think the Sannin are similar to team 7.


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## MIMS (Mar 9, 2012)

You have no idea how glad I'm that there are people in this world with a lot of time or very good typing skills! +reps!


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## Lelouch71 (Mar 9, 2012)

In terms of personality, Naruto and Sakura are the closest to their respective teacher. Naruto is still like Jiraiya minus having his wits and intelligence. Hopefully by the time Naruto is 50, he would gain those qualities. Sasuke only similarities to Orochimaru are the fact they are are ruthless criminal who craves power. Out of any character, Sasuke is the most like Madara. Madara is basically the grown up version of Sasuke. 

As for direction, the neo Sannin ship have long sailed. Naruto is already famous. He is known as the kid who took down Pain and saved his village, saved Kazekage, and the guy who about to (or will eventually) take down the enemy of the world Tobi. Naruto's goal is to be seen as the best in the world. He wants to surpass all the hokages most notably his father. The manga is grooming this kid as Rikudo's true successor. He might even be the true reincarnation of Rikudo. 

Sasuke is following the path of Madara. He wants to destroy Konoha and restore honor to his clan. He would eliminate anyone who stands in his way. Thus far, he seems to have more of a honor code than Madara and Orochimaru. This kid is already infamous. He's pretty much public enemy number 2. He has a huge target (pun intended) on his back along side Tobi and Kabuto. 

Sakura is well filler. She doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence as Tsunade. However, she will likely surpass her as a medic one day. I doubt she will surpass Tsunade in over all strength though. I don't even think she will surpass Kakashi. 

Kakashi will likely remain the weaker version of Hiruzen. He will be a jack of all trades but won't be seen as the second coming to the "God of Shinobi" or be seen as the "Professor". This is okay because he already famous and is known as the copycat ninja. Although I think it's safe to say that Naruto is now his favorite student instead of the "genius". I think that's a good step in the right direction in this parallel.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 10, 2012)

Only difference? Tsunade is still an impressive fighter, and though many may disagree, she is clearly every bit as strong as the other Kages if not even better. The difference between her and Sakura is that Tsunade has never really gone all out in combat yet - and Sakura fails in every way.


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## DoflaMihawk (Mar 10, 2012)

Also, the original trio:

Hashirama, Madara and Mito

Wouldn't you agree that they resemble Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura in a way?


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## princess of iwagakure (Mar 10, 2012)

DoflaMihawk said:


> Also, the original trio:
> 
> Hashirama, Madara and Mito
> 
> Wouldn't you agree that they resemble Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura in a way?


Hashirama and Madara, I agree. I also think Kishi intended that when he made Naruto stand on top of Hashirama's head, while Sasuke on Madara during the VOTE.

Sakura? We have only seen about Mito's role as a jinchuuriki, and that itself has nothing to resemble Sakura. If anything, Mito resembles Kushina the most, being a jinchuuriki, a kunoichi from the Uzumaki clan, and wife of the Hokage.


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## Kage (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm not very fond of T7/Sannin parallels that are made this late in the story considering i feel kishi has scraped the idea altogether but i did read most of your essay and i'll answer the questions for the sake of answering them.


Godaime Tsunade said:


> *1)* Will Naruto die? And if so, will Sakura be too late in confessing her true feelings?


Naruto will not die, he's practically the poster boy for love and hope.
I don't believe such "True" feelings exist in the first place, she is simply much too shallow for that.



> *2)* Will Sasuke meet an untimely death like his master Orochimaru?


This would be more likely if he was set up for final villain. Given how much time was spent on naruto coming to understand his pain, it is unlikely.



> *3)* Assuming he lives, will Sasuke ever return to Konoha?


where else is he suppose to go?



> *3)* Will Sakura ever surpass her master by the end of the manga?


Maybe we will be made to _believe_ she has with empty praise from third parties. It will fail to be convincing however.



> *4)* Will Team 7 re-unite in order to defeat the final villan? Or will the VOTE fight between Naruto and Sasuke be the final act? Or perhaps both?


Teamwork is for every team but Team 7 it would seem. I'd be surprised if kishi bothers. That aside the only teamwork i expect to see is between naruto and sasuke to defeat the final villain. maybe.


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## Eric Cartman (Mar 10, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> In terms of personality, Naruto and Sakura are the closest to their respective teacher. *Naruto is still like Jiraiya minus having his wits and intelligence*. Hopefully by the time Naruto is 50, he would gain those qualities. Sasuke only similarities to Orochimaru are the fact they are are ruthless criminal who craves power. Out of any character, Sasuke is the most like Madara. Madara is basically the grown up version of Sasuke.



I love you.


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## Lelouch71 (Mar 11, 2012)

DoflaMihawk said:


> Also, the original trio:
> 
> Hashirama, Madara and Mito
> 
> Wouldn't you agree that they resemble Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura in a way?


To this day I still don't see the resemblance between Hashirama and Naruto. He seems like the serious type like Itachi while we all know Naruto is a goofball. Mito also doesn't seem all that bitchy like Sakura.


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## gaseoussnake (Mar 11, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> *To this day I still don't see the resemblance between Hashirama and Naruto*. He seems like the serious type like Itachi while we all know Naruto is a goofball. Mito also doesn't seem all that bitchy like Sakura.



Naruto is definitely unlike Hashirama. The Hokage Naruto and to a certain extent Minato resemble is Tobirama. Tobirama is portrayed as a hothead that embodies the will of fire in the databook. Tobirama's similarity with Minato has to do with their excellence is seals (creation of Edo-Tensei by Tobirama) as well as their use of Space-Time Jutsu's.

Truth be told I will not be surprised if we are told Tobirama is Minato's grandfather or great grandfather


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## Kage (Mar 11, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> To this day I still don't see the resemblance between Hashirama and Naruto.



the only one they share is their will.


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## Turrin (Mar 11, 2012)

First off really nice essay as for the answers to your questions this is what I think:

To me Kishimoto has shown a-lot of different version of Team 7 we have the Sannin, Rain Orphans, Kakashi/Obito/Rin, Hashirama/Madara/Mito?, etc... with the many difference being that in every single one of these teams something went horribly wrong, that caused them to go down a dark path, so to me each of these teams is kind of like Kishi showing readers an alternate reality for team 7 if certain things were to happen resulting in bad endings to there story, kind of like in those games were you have many routes you can take and must of them result in bad to very bad endings, but one of them result in the Good ending.

The Rain orphans is like what would have happened if Naruto sided with Sasuke and rebelled against the Konoha village establishment, simply out of wishing to protect Sasuke and Sakura, & than Sasuke ends up dying in this rebellion. The result would be Naruto becoming a super villain like Nagato and shutting himself down to those he used to care about. Basically we have a very bad ending.

The Obito/Rin/Kakashi thing is kind of what would have happened if Naruto sacrificed himself to save Sasuke. Sasuke probably would be redeemed & become more like Kakashi and w/o Naruto around to protect her Sakura probably dies at some point. So here Sasuke is redeemed but we have a dead Naruto and a dead Sakura, so it's a bad ending.

The legendary sannin's ending to me is basically what would happen if Naruto gave up on bring Sasuke back to Konoha and thus lost some of his self confidence from it. The result would be him never accepting the title of Hokage or confess to Sakura, Sasuke becoming more evil and committing many atrocities in the shadows trying to amass the power necessary to defeat Konoha, & Sakura probably doing something similar to Tsunade like leaving the village and wandering for years. Plus Kakashi would probably die trying to defend the village from Sasuke. Naruto would still put his life on the line for the village like Jiraiya did and Sakura would return to protect the village two with a little provocation like Tsunade did, but it wouldn't be the best ending.

Than we have Hashirama/Madara/Mito?, which to me this is the ending where Naruto makes the choice to kill Sasuke rather than redeeming him for the sake of protecting the village. He'd probably succeed in beating Sasuke like Hashirama did Madara, & eventually he'd get the girl (Sakura) since she'd understand his decision at least in time, however Naruto would fail to destroy the cycle of hatred which would come back to bite his generation in the ass probably resulting in him eventually dieing due to this hatred in war and what not and cause problems for successive generations. So here we have a fairly decent ending, but again it's not a good ending by any means.

This leaves us with Team 7 and to me Team 7 is suppose to be the good ending. Naruto redeems Sasuke and gets the girl. Destroys the cycle of hate and therefore he nor successive generations suffer from it. So with that in mind i'll answer your questions:


1) Will Naruto die? And if so, will Sakura be too late in confessing her true feelings?
No Naruto won't die and Sakura won't be too late in confessing her true feelings whether they be for Sasuke or for Naruto.

2) Will Sasuke meet an untimely death like his master Orochimaru?
No Sasuke will live at the end of the manga, though I don't think him being maimed as a sign of the cost of his dark path is out of the question, I.E. him losing an eye or arm.

3) Assuming he lives, will Sasuke ever return to Konoha?
Yeah Sasuke will return to Konoha

3) Will Sakura ever surpass her master by the end of the manga?
Kishi said Sakura was written as a normal girl, this means she isn't a genius, doesn't have a Kekkai Genkai, a Bijuu, & isn't even the greatest hard work like Lee. However I believe it has been implied that she has more potential than Tsunade due to being part of the next generation and having the benefit of having Tsunade & Shizune tutor her. So I believe that Kishi will simply keep implying this throughout the story. So I don't think Sakura will surpass Tsunade by the end of the story, but it will be implied or stated in the epilogue that she has or someone will state at some point that she eventually will surpass Tsunade it just might take her another decade or so because she's just a normal girl.


4) Will Team 7 re-unite in order to defeat the final villan? Or will the VOTE fight between Naruto and Sasuke be the final act? Or perhaps both?

I think at this point the best bet is that it will be Naruto and Sasuke vs some incarnation of Madara. Will Kakashi, Sakura, & perhaps Sai play some kind of role in the final battle, I think it's a safe bet that they will, however I do not know if their role will have to do with fighting side by side with Naruto & Sasuke or have to do with fighting the Zetsu army or playing more of a support role like healing Sasuke and Naruto


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## Taijukage (Mar 11, 2012)

i can definitely see a "new gen of sannin vs tobi" fight to parallel their teachers.


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## Sasukethe7thHokage (Mar 12, 2012)

before it was sanin comparison now its 1st & Madara comparison


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