# Who lasts longer against Aokiji: Jozu or DD?



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 7, 2014)

Made this thread at another forum, so let's see how it does here. Which of these two is better suited to last longer against Aokiji in a fight: Jozu or Doflamingo?

Location: Punk Hazard, starting distance is 50 meters.
Intel: Full.
Mindset: Bloodlusted.
Restrictions: None.


----------



## cry77 (Feb 7, 2014)

jozu, no contest


----------



## Goomoonryong (Feb 7, 2014)

They're around the same level and can last a decent amount of time against Aokiji, but ultimately I'd give it to Dofla. He's extremely agile and can attack from a distance, while Jozu is a brawler, the worst kind of match up against Aokiji.


----------



## Lawliet (Feb 7, 2014)

Doflamingo


----------



## Imagine (Feb 7, 2014)

Better suited? Dofla. Who actually did? Jozu.


----------



## Harard (Feb 7, 2014)

The answer is obviously Jozu.


----------



## Shanks (Feb 7, 2014)

Jozu does better in a fair fight


----------



## barreltheif (Feb 7, 2014)

Dof is superior to Jozu.
However, Jozu is a defensive fighter, and thus will often last a bit longer against opponents who are superior to both of them, such as Mihawk, Shanks, or Kizaru.
However, Aokiji ignores Jozu's defense, so it's essentially Jozu without a DF vs Aokiji. So Dof lasts longer, and gives Aokiji a better fight.


----------



## tanman (Feb 7, 2014)

*Doflamingo.*
Aokiji can practically ignore durability. So I think it's fair to say that it goes to the fighter with a longer range, higher mobility, and higher intelligence. This has nothing to do with who is stronger over all. For example, Jozu would probably do better than Dofla against Kizaru, so please don't let your preconceived notions of power levels muddy your stance here.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 7, 2014)

This is how I compare/contrast how Aokiji faced his opponents and why I think Jozu would last longer:

*Spoiler*: __ 







After Jozu injured Aokiji, Aokiji acknowledged who he was fighting, and Jozu didn't drop dead right there. They fought offpanel for over a chapter and it took a distraction for Aokiji to take his arm.

*Spoiler*: __ 








In two seconds, with his hands in his pockets, non-killing intent, and without moving a muscle, the Pheasant froze the Flamingo in his tracks. Aokiji has been shown to go from the scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford in the blink of an eye. Instead of sending DD all over Punk Hazard, Aokiji waited around for a bit, then let DD shake it off, who was shown panting from exertion after breaking out of it.


----------



## trance (Feb 7, 2014)

My guess is Jozu.


----------



## J★J♥ (Feb 7, 2014)

Doflamingo wont be "lasting" here he will be killing him


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 7, 2014)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Doflamingo wont be "lasting" here he will be killing him


Aokiji had Doflamingo by the balls with his hands in his pockets. At *best*, Doflamingo could push Aokiji mid diff, and that's generous.


----------



## Halcyon (Feb 7, 2014)

Yeah, I'm gonna say Jozu.


----------



## Goomoonryong (Feb 7, 2014)

^ No he's right remember what he did to Fuji, it's obvious Dofla is a couple of notches above admirals.


----------



## J★J♥ (Feb 7, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Aokiji had Doflamingo by the balls with his hands in his pockets. At *best*, Doflamingo could push Aokiji mid diff, and that's generous.



He still froze half of the island, him freezing things has nothing to do with his hands and he attacked Doflamingo from behind.
If he could "mid dif" flamingo there he would not let him leave in the first place.

On other hands Doflamingo had nothing to gain from fighting with one of the strongest beings in that universe thats why he took his men and left, fact that he has brain which he uses does not make him weaker than anyone in fact it makes him even more Dangerous.


----------



## tanman (Feb 7, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> This is how I compare/contrast how Aokiji faced his opponents and why I think Jozu would last longer:
> After Jozu injured Aokiji, Aokiji acknowledged who he was fighting, and Jozu didn't drop dead right there. They fought offpanel for over a chapter and it took a distraction for Aokiji to take his arm.
> [/spoiler]
> 
> In two seconds, with his hands in his pockets, non-killing intent, and without moving a muscle, the Pheasant froze the Flamingo in his tracks. Aokiji has been shown to go from the scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford in the blink of an eye. Instead of sending DD all over Punk Hazard, Aokiji waited around for a bit, then let DD shake it off, who was shown panting from exertion after breaking out of it.



This is probably the most biased interpretation of events that I've ever read from someone who is considered credible. If you want specifics on where you went wrong, look to the last Jozu v. Doflamingo thread (or just study your word choice and consider the respective contexts).


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 7, 2014)

tanman said:


> This is probably the most biased interpretation of events that I've ever read from someone who is considered credible. If you want specifics on where you went wrong, look to the last Jozu v. Doflamingo thread (or just study your word choice and consider the respective contexts).


No need to be fussed that Aokiji took Jozu more seriously than he ever did Doflamingo. You could just prove those points wrong instead of shouting bias btw.


Goomoonryong said:


> ^ No he's right remember what he did to Fuji, it's obvious Dofla is a couple of notches above admirals.



Yes, all because Doflamingo tried (and miserably failed) kicking Fujitora.


SaCrEdpOoL said:


> He still froze half of the island, him freezing things has nothing to do with his hands and he attacked Doflamingo from behind.


DD knew Aokiji was there, and he still tried killing Smoker, yet Aokiji could still stop him even when DD was right on top of Smoker with zero effort.


SaCrEdpOoL said:


> If he could "mid dif" flamingo there he would not let him leave in the first place.


Aokiji isn't an Admiral anymore. If he had killed DD, the WG and Marines would have gone after Aokiji.


SaCrEdpOoL said:


> On other hands Doflamingo had nothing to gain from fighting with one of the strongest beings in that universe thats why he took his men and left, fact that he has brain which he uses does not make him weaker than anyone in fact it makes him even more Dangerous.


Because DD knows Aokiji could kill him handily.


----------



## Typhon (Feb 7, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> This is how I compare/contrast how Aokiji faced his opponents and why I think Jozu would last longer:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



This is getting old real fast. Doflamingo's panting had nothing to do with how hard it was to break out of that ice, especially since Doflamingo broke out of it immediately. When cold, you naturally start to do that as a way of warming yourself up. 

 You talked about how Aokiji acknowledged Jozu, but didn't even mention that Aokiji warned Smoker about how dangerous Doffy is and that it would take nothing less then the Admirals to stop him. 

And I don't know if you're inferring that Kuzan can blitz Doffy or something, but Doflamingo jumped over Oars Jr and amputated him in impressive time aswell.

Ontopic: Doflamingo last longer just based on DFs alone. Doflamingo has evasivness, air combat capabilities, and range over Jozu who would be forced into CQC with Kuzan.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 7, 2014)

Omnation said:


> This is getting old real fast. Doflamingo's panting had nothing to do with how hard it was to break out of that ice, *especially since Doflamingo broke out of it immediately.* When cold, you naturally start to do that as a way of warming yourself up.



No, he didn't, there was enough time for the Marines to be staggered by the gust of wind caused by Aokiji's attack, and for DD's goons to cry out. And it shows that things would be very different if Aokiji had gone all out, yet he didn't even put much effort in stopping DD, and DD quickly hauled out after he got free.


Omnation said:


> You talked about how Aokiji acknowledged Jozu, but didn't even mention that Aokiji warned Smoker about how dangerous Doffy is *and that it would take nothing less then the Admirals to stop him.*



No, Aokiji just told Smoker to inform Akainu to dispatch the Admirals, not that it would take nothing less than the Admirals to stop him, and it's more likely the Admirals are to take care of DD's operations as whole, not just DD. In any case, Aokiji handled Jozu far more seriously than he ever did DD.


Omnation said:


> And I don't know if you're inferring that Kuzan can blitz Doffy or something, but Doflamingo jumped over Oars Jr and amputated him in impressive time aswell.


Blitzing a frozen DD? Um, since Aokiji could go from the scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford, and the distance between him and the frozen DD was much smaller...yeah, he could.


----------



## Freechoice (Feb 7, 2014)

Jozu.

 This whole panting argument again.


----------



## Harard (Feb 7, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Yes, all because Doflamingo tried (and miserably failed) kicking Fujitora..



Giving a serious reply when the guy was obviously joking? lol


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 7, 2014)

Harard said:


> Giving a serious reply when the guy was obviously joking? lol


Nah, I knew he was joking (the  was a hint...I think), that bit was more about the DD wank in general lately (I cringe whenever I see people claiming DD > Fuji).


----------



## Typhon (Feb 7, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> No, he didn't, there was enough time for the Marines to be staggered by the gust of wind caused by Aokiji's attack, and for DD's goons to cry out. And it shows that things would be very different if Aokiji had gone all out, yet he didn't even put much effort in stopping DD, and DD quickly hauled out after he got free.


You do know that Kuzan can flash freeze objects? Doflamingo had to break out immediately. The two things you mentioned happened at the same time DD was frozen.


> No, Aokiji just told Smoker to inform Akainu to dispatch the Admirals, not that it would take nothing less than the Admirals to stop him, and it's more likely the Admirals are to take care of DD's operations as whole, not just DD. In any case, Aokiji handled Jozu far more seriously than he ever did DD.


DD has been punking Vice Admirals since his appearence (Jozu too) and you're insinuating that an Admiral is just there to stop DD's operations? Aokiji vs Jozu was off paneled. How do you know he handled Jozu more seriously? 



> Blitzing a frozen DD? Um, since Aokiji could go from the scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford, and the distance between him and the frozen DD was much smaller...yeah, he could.



I thought you were saying he could of blitzed DD instead of flash freezing him. My bad.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 7, 2014)

Omnation said:


> You do know that Kuzan can flash freeze objects? Doflamingo had to break out immediately. The two things you mentioned happened at the same time DD was frozen.


The move Aokiji used to freeze DD wasn't like the one he used on WB, Ice Ball, which was near instantaneous. The events that happened took place after DD had been frozen. It wasn't long, but it was long enough.


Omnation said:


> DD has been punking Vice Admirals since his appearence (Jozu too)


When Jozu was focused on Croc and not DD. And we don't even know if DD could have moved or injured Jozu.


Omnation said:


> and you're insinuating that an Admiral is just there to stop DD's operations?


Yes. DD himself can only hope to push an Admiral mid diff at best. Neither he or Hancock have even been confirmed to be on Marco's level. When Law dropped Kaido's name, who is around the Admirals' level, it made DD sweat bullets, and when Law claimed Kaido could wipe DD off the map, he didn't exactly deny it. DD went in over his head with the black market. If the Straw Hats succeed in destroying the SMILE factory and if DD can't make anymore SAD (I have a feeling the Grim Reaper is coming for CC), Kaido is going to make a move against DD. The loss of one of the best underworld brokers, and the downfall of one of the Warlords of the Sea (who also rules his own country), is going to cause chaos across the globe. The aftermath of Dressrosa will be second only to the downfall of a Yonko.


Omnation said:


> Aokiji vs Jozu was off paneled. How do you know he handled Jozu more seriously?


It was a war, Jozu is one of the physically strongest characters in the series (the iceberg heave-ho), and he could get past Aokiji's intangibility. Aokiji would have to take him seriously.


Omnation said:


> I thought you were saying he could of blitzed DD instead of flash freezing him. My bad.


Yeah, I was referring to when DD was frozen, Aokiji would have had no problem shattering him considering the distance.


----------



## Magician (Feb 7, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Yes. DD himself can only hope to push an Admiral mid diff at best. Neither he or Hancock have even been confirmed to be on Marco's level. When Law dropped Kaido's name, who is around the Admirals' level, it made DD sweat bullets, and when Law claimed Kaido could wipe DD off the map, he didn't exactly deny it. DD went in over his head with the black market. If the Straw Hats succeed in destroying the SMILE factory and if DD can't make anymore SAD (I have a feeling the Grim Reaper is coming for CC), Kaido is going to make a move against DD. The loss of one of the best underworld brokers, and the downfall of one of the Warlords of the Sea (who also rules his own country), is going to cause chaos across the globe. The aftermath of Dressrosa will be second only to the downfall of a Yonko.



Yeah, he was scared because of Kaido's huge zoan army + Yonko crew + allies.

Aokiji would shit his pants too if someone told him Kaido was aiming for his head.


----------



## Great Potato (Feb 8, 2014)

I'd go with Jozu, he's the one that's actually proven he could hold his own against the admirals.


----------



## punisher223 (Feb 8, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> This is how I compare/contrast how Aokiji faced his opponents and why I think Jozu would last longer:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



I agree with this ^


----------



## Harard (Feb 8, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Nah, I knew he was joking (the  was a hint...I think), that bit was more about the DD wank in general lately (I cringe whenever I see people claiming DD > Fuji).



I haven't seen any, but if true, do realize those people are most likely just trolling.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 8, 2014)

Harard said:


> I haven't seen any, but if true


It is.


Harard said:


> do realize those people are most likely just trolling.


Yes, more likely than not that's the case...but I've seen the occasional poster who think Zoro > Luffy (and try using fruitless examples like Hyozu to prove it), that DD is Admiral level because we haven't seen him go all out, and EB Zoro can somehow react to and dodge EL Sanji (whose speed is miles above EB Zoro's at that point), and mean it.


----------



## RF (Feb 8, 2014)

I'll go with the guy that actually fought Kuzan to a standstill in the manga.


----------



## barreltheif (Feb 8, 2014)

Sakazuki said:


> I'll go with the guy that actually fought Kuzan to a standstill in the manga.




You must be in the wrong thread. Akainu isn't in this match.
I'll go with the guy who didn't get low diffed, frozen, and dismembered by Aokiji.


----------



## RF (Feb 8, 2014)

You very clearly know that Jozu was defeated so easily only due to technicalities, and that he was holding his own in that fight just fine before plot struck him.


----------



## tanman (Feb 8, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> No need to be fussed that Aokiji took Jozu more seriously than he ever did Doflamingo. You could just prove those points wrong instead of shouting bias btw.



Nobody here is shouting. I'm just asking you to go back to an earlier thread because I pick a part your same argument there. Alternatively, you can use your own good judgement to see the problem with your post.

However, I'll go ahead and do a brief survey of the issues:
"compare/contrast" - suggests that an interaction that occurred between two characters on opposing side of a war is equivalent to an interaction that occurred between two characters over a meaningless vengeful act

"injured Aokiji" - suggests that permanent damage was done to Aokiji

"didn't drop dead right there" - suggests that Doflamingo was at risk of such a thing

"his hands in his pockets" - suggests such a thing is remotely relevant to Aokiji's power

"non-killing intent" - suggests that Aokiji, unaffiliated with the government, wasn't willing to kill to save a friend.

"without moving a muscle" - suggests such a thing is remotely relevant to Aokiji's power

"in his tracks" - suggests Doflamingo was trying to avoid it rather than totally ignoring the admiral that he knew was right behind him and going ahead and killing the man that Aokiji wanted alive

"sending DD all over Punk Hazard" - suggests that it took some length of time for Doflamingo to break out or that Doflamingo would not have broken out in such an event

"waited" - continues to assert that it took some great length of time

"panting from exertion" - suggests that there are characters that wouldn't be panting from exertion after breaking out from a flash freeze

So now, I'm certain you can see why I said you were terribly biased. Your language is overwrought to say the least.


----------



## trance (Feb 8, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Yeah, he was scared because of Kaido's huge zoan army + Yonko crew + allies.
> 
> *Aokiji would shit his pants too if someone told him Kaido was aiming for his head.*



Nope. He'd accept his impending doom with zero fucks and spend his final moments doing exactly what he did his entire life; relaxing.


----------



## Coruscation (Feb 8, 2014)

How about I dunno... the guy who rammed his elbow into Aokiji's face, said that he would take care of him, had Whitebeard casually walking away without pause and saying "OK" and then went on to handle an Aokiji who had every reason to be trying as hard as he could under the circumstances to put him down as quickly as possible for an extended period of time, whereafter Oda deliberately created a distraction so that he could be defeated, clearly telling us he would have lasted much longer were it not for said distraction. Yeah I think I'd go with that guy. As opposed to the guy Oda constantly avoids putting in an actual proper extended 1v1 with a serious Admiral at every opportunity.


----------



## Bohemian Knight (Feb 8, 2014)

cry77 said:


> jozu, no contest



This right here. It's cannon.


----------



## Magentabeard (Feb 8, 2014)

Doflamingo


----------



## November (Feb 8, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Nope. He'd accept his impending doom with zero fucks and spend his final moments doing exactly what he did his entire life; relaxing.



Dat LAZY JUSTICE


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 8, 2014)

tanman said:


> Nobody here is shouting.


Yes, you are...


tanman said:


> "compare/contrast" - suggests that an interaction that occurred between two characters on opposing side of a war is equivalent to an interaction that occurred between two characters over a meaningless vengeful act


I'm comparing how Aokiji faced these two opponents and how he dealt with them.


tanman said:


> "injured Aokiji" - suggests that permanent damage was done to Aokiji



Jozu could actually make Aokiji bleed in one hit, something Marco couldn't when he bypassed the Admirals' defense. And Doflamingo's Haki hasn't even been confirmed to be on Marco or Jozu's level.


tanman said:


> "didn't drop dead right there" - suggests that Doflamingo was at risk of such a thing


Which he wasn't, as Aokiji wasn't aiming to kill. If Aokiji was aiming to kill though...


tanman said:


> "his hands in his pockets" - suggests such a thing is remotely relevant to Aokiji's power
> "without moving a muscle" - suggests such a thing is remotely relevant to Aokiji's power


When he fought Jozu, Aokiji actually put his hand on Jozu and didn't let go until Jozu was KOed. And it shows that Aokiji was barely taking Doflamingo seriously since he stopped him with his hands in his pockets.


tanman said:


> "non-killing intent" - suggests that Aokiji, unaffiliated with the government, wasn't willing to kill to save a friend.


If he had killed Doflamingo, the WG and Marines would have gone after Aokiji.


tanman said:


> "in his tracks" - suggests Doflamingo was trying to avoid it rather than totally ignoring the admiral that he knew was right behind him and going ahead and killing the man that Aokiji wanted alive


If you're right on top of someone, and someone can still stop you from killing them, that is just sad.


tanman said:


> "sending DD all over Punk Hazard" - suggests that it took some length of time for Doflamingo to break out or that Doflamingo would not have broken out in such an event
> "waited" - continues to assert that it took some great length of time


Once Aokiji's attack was over, there was enough time for the Marines to be staggered from the gust of wind, and for DD's goons to cry out. The distance Aokiji crossed from the execution scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford (which he did in the blink of an eye) is far *far* bigger than the distance between Aokiji and DD at Punk Hazard.


tanman said:


> "panting from exertion" - suggests that there are characters that wouldn't be panting from exertion after breaking out from a flash freeze



*Spoiler*: __ 



[




Doflamingo (a non-top tier) was panting from exertion from a casual attack and Whitebeard (top tier) didn't from a far deadlier attack. Canon info. 


tanman said:


> So now, I'm certain you can see why I said you were terribly biased. Your language is overwrought to say the least.


Doflamingo fanboy calling others biased. Priceless.


Sakazuki said:


> I'll go with the guy that actually fought Kuzan to a standstill in the manga.





Sakazuki said:


> You very clearly know that Jozu was defeated so easily only due to technicalities, and that he was holding his own in that fight just fine before plot struck him.


A fine choice.


----------



## Trafalgar D. Law (Feb 8, 2014)

ans is obvious.Joz was oneshooted but Doflaminga broke out of ice.


----------



## GrizzlyClaws (Feb 8, 2014)

I think Jozu is stronger than Dofla, and would beat him high diff if they were to fight, but in this particular match up i think Dofla would do better.

Reasons were mentioned already. Jozu is a CQC brawler with a powerful defense fruit, which unfortunately in this matchup will do nothing to help him other than increasing his damage output. But he has to go in close combat against the Admiral, which plays right in Aokijis hands. 

Dofla can fly and shoot from distance. I think he has the better tools to last longer against this particular Admiral, namely Aokiji. But this doesn't necesarily mean he would be the more dangerous opponent though.

However i firmly believe Jozu would do better against Akainu or Kizaru, and most other high level opponents.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2014)

Trafalgar D. Law said:


> ans is obvious.Joz was oneshooted but Doflaminga broke out of ice.



Jozu was frozen to the core. Whatever attack Kiji used on Flamingo was not the same attack he used on Jozu.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 8, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Jozu was frozen to the core. Whatever attack Kiji used on Flamingo was not the same attack he used on Jozu.


Yup, with Jozu, Aokiji had to physically touch him to beat him, and didn't let go until Jozu was down for the count. Not the case with Doflamingo, whom Aokiji stopped with his hands in his pockets.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 8, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Yup, with Jozu, Aokiji had to physically touch him to beat him, and didn't let go until Jozu was down for the count. Not the case with Doflamingo, whom Aokiji stopped with his hands in his pockets.



I'm just strictly talking about the quality of the attacks which law wants to pass off as being the same level of attack when it clearly wasn't.

But as far as the general consensus of who last longer there's two ways to approach this..

Doflamingo can dodge kiji easier than Josu can but Josu can fight Kiji head on much easier than Flamingo could.

So if we put all of flamingo's abilities he might last longer than Josu in terms total battle time but  Kiji would still be in better shape rather than if he fought Josu in less time.


----------



## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2014)

Jozu... reasons r listed. Handicaps say Dofla...


----------



## Dunno (Feb 8, 2014)

Doflamingo, it's canon.


----------



## RF (Feb 8, 2014)

The only canon part is that Doflamingo can survive around a nonchalant Kuzan for 2 seconds.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 8, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> How about I dunno... the guy who rammed his elbow into Aokiji's face, said that he would take care of him, had Whitebeard casually walking away without pause and saying *"OK" and then went on to handle an Aokiji who had every reason to be trying as hard as he could under the circumstances to put him down as quickly as possible for an extended period of time*, whereafter Oda deliberately created a distraction so that he could be defeated, clearly telling us he would have lasted much longer were it not for said distraction. Yeah I think I'd go with that guy. As opposed to the guy Oda constantly avoids putting in an actual proper extended 1v1 with a serious Admiral at every opportunity.


----------



## tanman (Feb 8, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> I'm comparing how Aokiji faced these two opponents and how he dealt with them.



So your argument is effectively that because Aokiji is involved in both situations they are comparable? So Jozu putting his life on the line to protect his crew is comparable to Doflamingo merely defending against an attack? The only thing these two situations have in common is Aokiji. There is nothing else. The context is completely different. Any conclusion you draw from comparing these two events must be looked at through the lens of their respective contexts or you're just bullshitting.




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Jozu could actually make Aokiji bleed in one hit, something Marco couldn't when he bypassed the Admirals' defense. *And Doflamingo's Haki hasn't even been confirmed to be on Marco or Jozu's level.*



Several things wrong with this 

- making someone bleed doesn't quite fulfill the "permanent" constraint, further Marco's damage on the admirals was at least equivalent. Blood is not the only thing used to denote damage.

- you're implying that Marco and Jozu have the same level of Haki or such a distinctly different level of Haki that they should be grouped together

- you're implying that a character effectively has to have identical Haki feats in order to have the same level of Haki. Or at least that's what I'm assuming considering Doflamingo's shown powerful enough Haki to break Aokiji's ice, completely neutralize a huge Diable Jambe, ignore Law's devil fruit ability, and to strengthen Parasite enough that it wouldn't be overwhelmed by Jozu's physical strength and Haki. So by the same token, I could tell you that Jozu's Haki hasn't even been confirmed to be on Doflamingo's level. But I won't tell you that because that would be retarded logic.





TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Which he wasn't, as Aokiji wasn't aiming to kill. If Aokiji was aiming to kill though...



"Doflamingo would have given him a lengthy fight after his Haki ensured that only the outside coat of ice shattered." is how I assume you were going to complete that sentence. 




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> When he fought Jozu, Aokiji actually put his hand on Jozu and didn't let go until Jozu was KOed. And it shows that Aokiji was barely taking Doflamingo seriously since he stopped him with his hands in his pockets.



Yes. Aokiji wasn't taking a mass murderer about to kill his friend seriously. Right.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Aokiji wields an AOE-based ability. Whether his hands or in his pockets or up his ass, his power will still work just fine. He can freeze kilometers of ocean with his hands in his pockets. It is likely true that contact enhances the strength of the ability, but it can also be avoided more easily (if you aren't distracted). *Therefore, a freeze from where he was rather than an up close freeze was the obvious choice as time was of the essence.*

Further, Aokiji's face speaks volumes about his seriousness. And Doflamingo's face and disregard speaks volumes about his lack of anything of the sort.




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> If he had killed Doflamingo, the WG and Marines would have gone after Aokiji.



Yep. Because the WG is totally cool with Aokiji right now, right?
Why would Aokiji give a shit if it were a choice between that and the life of a friend. Furthermore, Akainu is the only person that we know of in the WG that would actually make Aokiji bat an eye.




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> If you're right on top of someone, and someone can still stop you from killing them, that is just sad.



In what universe? So you're saying that it was sad that Ace was able to stop Akainu from killing Luffy? You're saying that it's sad that an _*instantaneous attack*_ is able to stop you from doing something. How does that even work? 



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Once Aokiji's attack was over, there was enough time for the Marines to be staggered from the gust of wind, and for DD's goons to cry out. The distance Aokiji crossed from the execution scaffold to hundreds of feet above Marineford (which he did in the blink of an eye) is far *far* bigger than the distance between Aokiji and DD at Punk Hazard.



It would take less than a second for the bullet timers watching to react. And that's not a length of time that would actually be enough for Aokiji to finish the job. That was the "or" in the portion that you quoted.




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Doflamingo (a non-top tier) was panting from exertion from a casual attack and Whitebeard (top tier) didn't from a far deadlier attack. Canon info.



And you immediately lost a bunch credibility with that "non-top tier"/"top tier" bit, There are no tiers in One Piece. I could see an argument for two at most, and I don't even understand how two tiers makes a meaningful tier system. But even so, I'm certain you don't think that Whitebeard, a man in his death throes, did not tire himself immensely by breaking out of that ice. This is further emphasized by the fact that Whitebeard took quite a bit of time to break out. 

Furthermore, I hope you aren't suggesting that the difference between your tiers is panting. If so, that _really_ shows just how stupid it is to use tiers in One Piece. 




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Doflamingo fanboy calling others biased. Priceless.





TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Yes, you are...



You really are better than all this blatant misrepresentation of facts. And I certainly thought you were better than name calling. Please stop it.I

I am no fanboy. At this point, I am no more attached to Doflamingo than I am any character. I have a slight preference towards Sanji. But other than that I'm not really a fan of one character over another. I do, however, recognize Doflamingo's feats rather than dismissing them in order to put "end of story" characters on a pedestal that must constantly be far and away from our protagonists. I wonder how people will reconcile all this when Luffy actually defeats that sort of character? But if looking at the story this way increases your enjoyment, more power to you. But don't try to pass it off as fact.


----------



## BlueDemon (Feb 8, 2014)

It's astonishing how so many people think Dofla can last longer than Jozu after all what we've seen


----------



## November (Feb 8, 2014)

What a lovely tl;dr post there.
Agree with Jozu supporters


----------



## Slenderman (Feb 8, 2014)

Jozu lasts longer. That's canon. Oda has made DD avoid Admiral lvl fighters.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 8, 2014)

tanman said:


> So your argument is effectively that because Aokiji is involved in both situations they are comparable? So Jozu putting his life on the line to protect his crew is comparable to Doflamingo merely defending against an attack? The only thing these two situations have in common is Aokiji. There is nothing else. The context is completely different. Any conclusion you draw from comparing these two events must be looked at through the lens of their respective contexts or you're just bullshitting.


Jozu had a better portrayal against Aokiji than DD. That's canon.


tanman said:


> - making someone bleed doesn't quite fulfill the "permanent" constraint, further Marco's damage on the admirals was at least equivalent. Blood is not the only thing used to denote damage.


Kizaru and Aokiji were shown with no injuries after they got hit by Marco. That's a fact.


tanman said:


> - you're implying that Marco and Jozu have the same level of Haki or such a distinctly different level of Haki that they should be grouped together


Marco and Jozu's Haki should be around the same level, as they both could get past Aokiji's tangibility. Whose is better, we have no idea.


tanman said:


> - you're implying that a character effectively has to have identical Haki feats in order to have the same level of Haki. Or at least that's what I'm assuming considering Doflamingo's shown powerful enough Haki to break Aokiji's ice, completely neutralize a huge Diable Jambe, *ignore Law's devil fruit ability*, and to strengthen Parasite enough that it wouldn't be overwhelmed by Jozu's physical strength and Haki. So by the same token, I could tell you that Jozu's Haki hasn't even been confirmed to be on Doflamingo's level. But I won't tell you that because that would be retarded logic.



The only thing I got out of your drivel was that DD ignored Law's power...which isn't true, as Law, who was injured and exhausted from using his powers, still could get past DD's Haki, and leave a small cut.


tanman said:


> "*Doflamingo would have given him a mid diff fight at best.*" is how I assume you were going to complete that sentence.


Dude, it's like we read each others minds. 


tanman said:


> Yes. Aokiji wasn't taking a mass murderer about to kill his friend seriously. Right.


Aokiji. Hands. In pockets. And stopped DD with *zero* effort. DD was not a threat.


tanman said:


> Further, Aokiji's face speaks volumes about his seriousness. And Doflamingo's face and disregard speaks volumes about his lack of anything of the sort.


Have you ever considered DD acts like a spoiled brat around the Admirals because of his connections and not because of his actual power?


tanman said:


> Yep. Because the WG is totally cool with Aokiji right now, right?


They certainly wouldn't take kindly to Aokiji murdering a Warlord as well connected as DD, especially since he's not an Admiral anymore, and is dabbling in the underworld.


tanman said:


> Why would Aokiji give a shit if it were a choice between that and the life of a friend. Furthermore, Akainu is the only person that we know of in the WG that would actually make Aokiji bat an eye.


Kind of how he let Robin go at Ohara? Kind of like how he let the Straw Hats escape from Enies Lobby (which had been razed to the ground) and Garp? Aokiji barely takes anything seriously.


tanman said:


> In what universe? So you're saying that it was sad that Ace was able to stop Akainu from killing Luffy?


What does Ace have to do with this, exactly? Though I'll admit he was a moron for wasting all of his brother's work by thinking he could take on the guy who could fight evenly with Whitebeard.


tanman said:


> You're saying that it's sad that an _*instantaneous attack*_ is able to stop you from doing something. How does that even work?


Because DD was right on top of Smoker, and despite being so fast, strong, and all that jazz, got stopped by a casual attack (just compare that attack to Ice Ball).


tanman said:


> It would take less than a second for the bullet timers watching to react. And that's not a length of time that would actually be enough for Aokiji to finish the job. That was the "or" in the portion that you quoted.


I don't know what if you're trying to explain something or are just choking the straws that you're trying to grasp. But Aokiji was still fast enough to go from the scaffold to the air to prevent tsunamis from crashing into Marineford and there was a brief amount of time in the much smaller distance between Aokiji and frozen DD. There was nothing stopping Aokiji from shattering DD if Aokiji had been aiming to kill.


tanman said:


> And you immediately lost a bunch credibility with that "non-top tier"/"top tier" bit, *There are no tiers in One Piece.* I could see an argument for two at most, and I don't even understand how two tiers makes a meaningful tier system. But even so, I'm certain you don't think that Whitebeard, a man in his death throes, did not tire himself immensely by breaking out of that ice. This is further emphasized by the fact that Whitebeard took quite a bit of time to break out.





tanman said:


> Furthermore, I hope you aren't suggesting that the difference between your tiers is panting. If so, that _really_ shows just how stupid it is to use tiers in One Piece.


It shows that DD certainly isn't in the league of the top tiers. Sound fair?


tanman said:


> You really are better than all this blatant misrepresentation of facts. And I certainly thought you were better than name calling. Please stop it.


Hilarous coming from the guy who screams bias right off the bat.


BlueDemon said:


> *It's astonishing how so many people think Dofla can last longer than Jozu after all what we've seen*





November said:


> *What a lovely tl;dr post there.*
> Agree with Jozu supporters


Thanks guys.


----------



## 108CaliberPhoenix (Feb 8, 2014)

Yes Aokiji had his hands in his pockets. Caesar Clown could also have his hands in his pockets
and be able to knock out characters tons stronger than he is. 

It's their abilities that allow them to do that aokiji is
not a brawler he doesn't need to be moving his arms about.

Aokiji used his hands to beat luffy and robin pre skip, he even moved around and shattered himself
that doesn't mean they faired better against him then DD would.


----------



## tanman (Feb 8, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Jozu had a better portrayal against Aokiji than DD. That's canon.



Again. You're really struggling with the difference between fact and opinion. And you're definitely struggling with what I mean by context. *Jozu had a fight with Aokiji. Doflamingo did not.* They are not comparable incidents. This is as ridiculous as someone comparing Doflamingo v. Jozu to Jozu v. Aokiji. One of those things never happened.



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Kizaru and Aokiji were shown with no injuries after they got hit by Marco. That's a fact.



So you're being purposefully obtuse by ignoring anything that isn't blood?




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Marco and Jozu's Haki should be around the same level, as they both could get past Aokiji's tangibility. Whose is better, we have no idea.



You're missing my point on the "distinctly different" portion.





TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> The only thing I got out of your drivel was that DD ignored Law's power...which isn't true, as Law, who was injured and exhausted from using his powers, still could get past DD's Haki, and leave a small cut.



Is that really all you have to say? That Law, who can cut mountains, was able to cut Doflamingo on the cheek once? The fact that you consider this indicative of Doflamingo being incomparable to the top really just reveals that *your opinions stem from a massive under estimation of Law and he M3.* 

And obviously, I never said that Doflamingo could ignore every single attack that Law used, so you're claim that what I said was untrue, was in itself untrue. 

 Effectively by simply calling a reasoned argument, something you're failing to use, "drivel," I hope you understand that you are simply making it clear that you have no counterargument and admitting your original argument was fallacious.



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Have you ever considered DD acts like a spoiled brat around the Admirals because of his connections and not because of his actual power?



Aokiji is not an admiral.
Doflamingo, knowing Fujitora was willing to attack him, proceeded to kick him.

Calling him a spoiled brat is a very lame attempt at trivializing the character. 




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> They certainly wouldn't take kindly to Aokiji murdering a Warlord as well connected as DD, especially since he's not an Admiral anymore, and is dabbling in the underworld.



I think you missed the point of my sarcasm.



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Kind of how he let Robin go at Ohara? Kind of like how he let the Straw Hats escape from Enies Lobby (which had been razed to the ground) and Garp? Aokiji barely takes anything seriously.



So you're saying that a friend means absolutely nothing to Aokiji? That's odd considering the events you're referring to speak to the contrary.



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> What does Ace have to do with this, exactly? Though I'll admit he was a moron for wasting all of his brother's work by thinking he could take on the guy who could fight evenly with Whitebeard.



Did that analogy go over your head? Ace saved Luffy from Akainu despite Akainu being right on top of Luffy. That's just sad for Akainu isn't it?




TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Because DD was right on top of Smoker, and despite being so fast, strong, and all that jazz, got stopped by a casual attack (just compare that attack to Ice Ball).



Not casual for aforementioned reasons. And there's a reason why instantaneous was bolded. I'm trying to make this easy for you.



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> I don't know what if you're trying to explain something or are just choking the straws that you're trying to grasp. But Aokiji was still fast enough to go from the scaffold to the air to prevent tsunamis from crashing into Marineford and there was a brief amount of time in the much smaller distance between Aokiji and frozen DD. There was nothing stopping Aokiji from shattering DD if Aokiji had been aiming to kill.



Wait. I see. You think that Aokiji can one shot Doflamingo by shattering him, despite his monstrous Haki and massive speed. You honestly think that Doflamingo would have come out of that ice smiling were such a thing a possibility. Do you think he would have proceeded to attack Smoker had such a thing been a possibility? That's asinine. lol at me being the one grasping at straws. He would have shed the ice upon contact, taking damage, but not being shattered like a fucking pinata (or like Jozu's arm after a CQC freeze). This isn't Bleach.



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> It shows that DD certainly isn't in the league of the top tiers. Sound fair?



Nope. Because as I said before your tier mentality makes absolutely no sense in this manga where Crocodile can fight Mihawk and Doflamingo or Luffy can prance through Marineford.



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Hilarous coming from the guy who screams bias right off the bat.



I called it as i saw it. I didn't mean to insult you. I was just pointing it out.









i really had to cherry pick for anything substantive in that post. And you didn't respond to any of my central arguments. Not a good post at all. You know your conclusion really isn't all that bad, but you're reasoning is just terrible. Please don't think that posters that agree with your conclusion, agree with your logic. You should really reevaluate how you came to your opinion.


----------



## Slenderman (Feb 8, 2014)

These are some big fights. Keep it up guys.


----------



## Veltpunch (Feb 8, 2014)

Most definitely Jozu. Ao couldn't put Jozu down immediately and obviously didn't get a chance to freeze him before he was distracted. Doffy was instantly and ever-so casually frozen. Him breaking out doesn't mean much for comparison. Ao clearly used a different tech/put a lot more effort into freezing Jozu.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Feb 9, 2014)

Can doflamingo fly around and keep dodging?


----------



## Veltpunch (Feb 9, 2014)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> Can doflamingo fly around and keep dodging?



*Spoiler*: __ 



He could try, but...

1,2 Kuzan's coming for you.


----------



## Dellinger (Feb 9, 2014)

108CaliberPhoenix said:


> Yes Aokiji had his hands in his pockets. Caesar Clown could also have his hands in his pockets
> and be able to knock out characters tons stronger than he is.
> 
> It's their abilities that allow them to do that aokiji is
> ...



It's not the same.

Aokiji's strongest moves revolve around the use of his hands.

For him to use ice time he needs to use his hands.He needs to be in direct contact with the opponent.


----------



## 2Broken (Feb 9, 2014)

IMO Doflamingo has significantly better total combat ability and portrayal compared to Jozu and based on that would last longer than him vs. an Admiral. 

The argument that since Aokiji's hands were in his pocket the attack he used on Doflamingo is much weaker than the one he used on Aokiji is completely baseless.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2014)

2Broken said:


> IMO Doflamingo has significantly better total combat ability and portrayal compared to Jozu and based on that would last longer than him vs. an Admiral.
> 
> The argument that since Aokiji's hands were in his pocket the attack he used on Doflamingo is much weaker than the one he used on Aokiji is completely baseless.



Baseless?  Well if you want logisics than portayal then okay.

Aokiji wouldn't have spent time warning Flamingo not to touch smoker if he was going to freeze the hell out of him in the first place. 

It is obvious from that encounter than Kiji did not want to fight him because of Flamingo's position as a shichibukai as well as his lineage and was a simple warning shot to take his hands off. If of course flamingo still didn't comply aokiji would have gotten very serious on his ass and flamingo walked away very quickly after that.  
The possibility of the attack being lethal was further downgraded by flamingo's own onlookers who said that the reason flamingo got out of that was because his heart wasn't frozen. To which he know Kiji is completely capable off seeing that managed to kill people with the direct touch.

Completely different from his encounter with Josu as this was a top commander and was engaging him on an actual battlefield where this was a life or death situation.

But chances are not even this won't convince you.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if it did.


----------



## 2Broken (Feb 9, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Baseless?  Well if you want logisics than portayal then okay.



?



Canute87 said:


> Aokiji wouldn't have spent time warning Flamingo not to touch smoker if he was going to freeze the hell out of him in the first place.



Agreed.



Canute87 said:


> It is obvious from that encounter than Kiji did not want to fight him



Agreed.



Canute87 said:


> because of Flamingo's position as a shichibukai as well as his lineage and was a simple warning shot to take his hands off.



^All of that is completely baseless.



Canute87 said:


> If of course flamingo still didn't comply aokiji would have gotten very serious on his ass and flamingo walked away very quickly after that.



Agreed.



Canute87 said:


> The possibility of the attack being lethal was further downgraded by flamingo's own onlookers who said that the reason flamingo got out of that was because his heart wasn't frozen. To which he know Kiji is completely capable off seeing that managed to kill people with the direct touch.



So if we know Aokiji can kill people by freezing their hearts and we know Doflamingo survived because he didn't have his heart frozen, then why is that not a defensive feat for Doflamingo but a weaker attack from Aokiji instead.



Canute87 said:


> *Completely different from his encounter with Josu* as this was a top commander and was engaging him on an actual battlefield where this was a life or death situation.



^Agree with the bolded, which is why I don't understand why you are trying to compare two completely different scenarios in a way that looks the worst for Doflamingo; my guess is because that is what you want.



Canute87 said:


> But chances are not even this won't convince you.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if it did.



 Of course what you typed didn't convince me, you didn't even address the thing I typed that made you respond. 

That is:

The statement that Aokiji's attack against Doflamingo is significantly weaker than the attack he used against Jozu because his hands were in his pocket is completely baseless; which it is.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2014)

2Broken said:


> ?
> 
> ^All of that is completely baseless.



Doflamingo was so connected in the system he was able to trick the entire marines  even the fleet admiral himself that he renounced his title.

Flamingo isn't somebody you can take out without causing a very big shitstorm something that AoKiji obviously doesn't want at the moment because of whatever his new code of justice entails and having the entire marines on your ass is very big distraction from what you want to achieve.

If you can't see then you can stay as you are and you'll constantly be in this bubble until you fall in line with the average posters who want to wait until things are explicitly shown or said.




> So if we know Aokiji can kill people by freezing their hearts and we know Doflamingo survived because he didn't have his heart frozen, then why is that not a defensive feat for Doflamingo but a weaker attack from Aokiji instead.



Because Josu never broke out of his icy prison.  

Are you going to tell me Flamingo has better defenses than Josu?

Why do you think Josu lost as fast as he did?  Because of the one distraction?  No the distraction only got his arm which he was unable to get rid of ice and he ended up getting frozen for the remainder of the war.


----------



## Kings Disposition (Feb 9, 2014)

2Broken said:


> The statement that Aokiji's attack against Doflamingo is significantly weaker than the attack he used against Jozu because his hands were in his pocket is completely baseless; which it is.


The attack he used on DD was most likely weaker than the one he used on Jozu. If the two attacks were actually on par with each other (which I highly doubt), what makes more sense to use?

Option 1: An aoe ranged ice wave that instantly travels in all directions around himself?
Option 2: A touching attack that requires him to take the time and risk  to physically move up close to the opponent?

Assuming that both choices are equal to each other, option 1 makes more sense to use right? Well Aokiji used option 2 anyways which implies that it was the better choice and thus the stronger option.

Hell if the ice wave attack he used on DD was on par, he could've just  used that on Jozu and be done with it without ever  being extremely close and/or needing to find an opening in the first place.


----------



## warismydestiny (Feb 9, 2014)

2Broken said:


> The statement that Aokiji's attack against Doflamingo is significantly weaker than the attack he used against Jozu because his hands were in his pocket is completely baseless; which it is.



I wouldn't say it was weaker because his hands were in his pockets I would say it was weaker because against jozu it was an all out war situation everybody was going at it to kill and every second mattered against doflamingo it was only a warning shot to make him get the fuck off smoker.


----------



## 2Broken (Feb 9, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Doflamingo was so connected in the system he was able to trick the entire marines  even the fleet admiral himself that he renounced his title.



It was shown that Akainu thought Doflamingo resigned his title? Not being a smart ass just don't remmeber that ever happening; mind providing the link?



Canute87 said:


> Flamingo isn't somebody you can take out without causing a very big shitstorm something that AoKiji obviously doesn't want at the moment because of whatever his new code of justice entails and having the entire marines on your ass is very big distraction from what you want to achieve.



Yes taking out Doflamingo will have a major impact on the New World, but the second you start saying why Aokiji didn't push a fight with Doflamingo you are just making up whatever sounds good. You admit you don't know what Aokiji's code of Justicen is, you don't know what he has been doing since his fight with Akainu, you don't know if he join some other faction and you don't even know why he was on Punk Hazard. You don't know any of that and yet you are going to tell me you know without a doubt why Aokiji didn't push a fight with Doflamingo?



Canute87 said:


> If you can't see then you can stay as you are and you'll constantly be in this bubble until you fall in line with the average posters who want to wait until things are explicitly shown or said.



So since I don't take your theory on why Aokiji didn't force a fight with Doflamingo as fact I live in a bubble?



Canute87 said:


> Because Josu never broke out of his icy prison.
> 
> Are you going to tell me Flamingo has better denseness than Josu?



^This is the problem right here. You want say that because Jozu couldn't break out of Aokiji's ice and Doflamingo did than Aokiji must have used a weaker attack on Dolamingo. You have already chosen the conclusion you like so you start taking baseless stuff as evidence to get to that conclusion. We have not even seen the limit of Doflamingo's power and it is quite possible that he is a superior haki user than Jozu. 

I have no idea what point you are trying to make with the dense thing, Jozu was not even diamond armored when he got frozen.



Canute87 said:


> Why do you think Josu lost as fast as he did?  Because of the one distraction?  No the distraction only got his arm which he was unable to get rid of ice and he ended up getting frozen for the remainder of the war.



Yes Jozu did lose as fast as he did because he got distracted. It was made clear that Marco and Jozu suffered greatly from that distraction.


----------



## Shanks (Feb 9, 2014)

Such as long debate/discussion to see _'who last longer'_ with Aokiji? Come on, it's obvious that Dolflamingo last longer because he's got chicks literately shitting on him and should have enough experience to control his cum, while Jozu might even get pre-mature ejackulation due to being in a pirate crew with no females and having lack of experience and knowledge on intercourse.

Dolflamingo god stomp when it comes to _'who last longer'_ in this scenario.


----------



## 2Broken (Feb 9, 2014)

Kings Disposition said:


> The attack he used on DD was most likely weaker than the one he used on Jozu. If the two attacks were actually on par with each other (which I highly doubt), what makes more sense to use?
> 
> Option 1: An aoe ranged ice wave that instantly travels in all directions around himself?
> Option 2: A touching attack that requires him to take the time and risk  to physically move up close to the opponent?



Depends on the circumstance.



Kings Disposition said:


> Assuming that both choices are equal to each other, option 1 makes more sense to use right? Well Aokiji used option 2 anyways which implies that it was the better choice and thus the stronger option.



Aokiji has only been shown to freeze things he is touching or is directly connected to him. Freezing Jozu up close ensures Jozu can't dodge or get away, while at the same time eliminates the possibility of friendly fire.



Kings Disposition said:


> Hell if the ice wave attack he used on DD was on par, he could've just  used that on Jozu and be done with it without ever  being extremely close and/or needing to find an opening in the first place.



No because Jozu wasn't distracted the whole fight, and he would risk freezing Marines.



warismydestiny said:


> I wouldn't say it was weaker because his hands were in his pockets I would say it was weaker because against jozu it was an all out war situation everybody was going at it to kill and every second mattered against doflamingo it was only a warning shot to make him get the fuck off smoker.


 
The thing is just because Aokiji didn't want to fight doesn't mean he went easy on Doflamingo when he froze him. Doflamingo was already attacking and Aokiji's main priority was saving his friend's life. He literally straight flash froze Doflamingo in order to accomplish that goal. I doubt Aokiji is overly concerned about Doflamingo's well-being and I don't really see how you guys pictured he held back when he froze the man solid. Did he use less ice, make it less it less cold, what?


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2014)

2Broken said:


> It was shown that Akainu thought Doflamingo resigned his title? Not being a smart ass just don't remmeber that ever happening; mind providing the link?



I can but i don't think I need to.  Fujitora was sent to Dressrosa on Akainu's orders because of the announcement in the paper about the flamingo's resignation.  If you don't remember those chain of events I'll provide you with the link to akainu and his small talk with fujitora.



> Yes taking out Doflamingo will have a major impact on the New World, but the second you start saying why Aokiji didn't push a fight with Doflamingo you are just making up whatever sounds good. You admit you don't know what Aokiji's code of Justicen is, you don't know what he has been doing since his fight with Akainu, you don't know if he join some other faction and you don't even know why he was on Punk Hazard. You don't know any of that and yet you are going to tell me you know without a doubt why Aokiji didn't push a fight with Doflamingo?



Exactly I don't know what he's been doing, You don't what he's been doing nobody in the manga knows what he's fucking doing. Why do you think that is?  Because he's not going to do shit to put him on the top of the World Government's shit list which taking out flamingo would very much cause.

By virtue of the fact that even the king of the bloody underworld can only go by rumors into Kiji's actions it is very obvious that he's being discrete in his endeavours and one of the main things NOT to do is to draw attention to yourself.




> So since I don't take your theory on why Aokiji didn't force a fight with Doflamingo as fact I live in a bubble?


Yeah because the only thing that's going to convince you is what i mentioned before.  





> ^This is the problem right here. You want say that because Jozu couldn't break out of Aokiji's ice and Doflamingo did than Aokiji must have used a weaker attack on Dolamingo. You have already chosen the conclusion you like so you start taking baseless stuff as evidence to get to that conclusion. We have not even seen the limit of Doflamingo's power and it is quite possible that he is a superior haki user than Jozu.



Josu is  one of top commander for whitebeard's crew one of the strongest pirates in the new world in case you have forgotten. How can any sensible person not draw the conclusion that the attack that flamingo took literally seconds to break out of was a weak attack compared to what kiji hit josu with?

Here you are now jumping into flamingo's supposed superior haki and then throw the  baseless argument in my face? 

What reasonable grounds do you have to believe that Flamingo has superior haki to Josu?  You cannot base this on the attack Kiji hit flamingo with so where are you getting this from?



> I have no idea what point you are trying to make with the dense thing, Jozu was not even diamond armored when he got frozen.



I meant defense. Forget google is american.





> Yes Jozu did lose as fast as he did because he got distracted. It was made clear that Marco and Jozu suffered greatly from that distraction.



His distraction only cost him his arm in the first instance from just looking to the side,  Kiji did not freeze his entire body  until some moments after.
Flamingo had his entire fucking back turned to AoKiji when Kiji froze him.   You cannot be more open than that.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 9, 2014)

Dis thread is going places.


----------



## 2Broken (Feb 9, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> I can but i don't think I need to.  Fujitora was sent to Dressrosa on Akainu's orders because of the announcement in the paper about the flamingo's resignation.  If you don't remember those chain of events I'll provide you with the link to akainu and his small talk with fujitora.



Please do.



Canute87 said:


> Exactly I don't know what he's been doing, You don't what he's been doing nobody in the manga knows what he's fucking doing. Why do you think that is?  Because he's not going to do shit to put him on the top of the World Government's shit list which taking out flamingo would very much cause.



 Bro you are just making a whole bunch of conclusions with nothing backing them up. How do you know taking out Doflamingo would put Aokiji on top of the WG shit list? Do you think they care about avenging Shichibukai when they are willing to murder one for displaying weakness? Do you think if Aokiji killed Doflamingo to save Smoker and his crews lives, Smoker would go report the incident if he thought it would cause Aokiji problems. The truth is you can't be sure why Aokiji didn't force a fight with Doflamingo, no one can.



Canute87 said:


> By virtue of the fact that even the king of the bloody underworld can only go by rumors into Kiji's actions it is very obvious that he's being discrete in his endeavours and one of the main things NOT to do is to draw attention to yourself.



Ok.



Canute87 said:


> Josu is  one of top commander for whitebeard's crew one of the strongest pirates in the new world in case you have forgotten. How can any sensible person not draw the conclusion that the attack that flamingo took literally seconds to break out of was a weak attack compared to what kiji hit josu with?



By simply believing Doflamingo is "stronger" than Jozu.



Canute87 said:


> Here you are now jumping into flamingo's supposed superior haki and then throw the  baseless argument in my face?



.....You can't be serious......



Canute87 said:


> What reasonable grounds do you have to believe that Flamingo has superior haki to Josu?  You cannot base this on the attack Kiji hit flamingo with so where are you getting this from?



Apparently you are. I said it is possible that Doflamingo has better haki not that he does have better haki. You are the one claiming your interpretations as facts, not me.



Canute87 said:


> I meant defense. Forget google is american.



Ok I see Jozu having superior defense with his diamond armor up, because he gains immense durability. Without it I see nothing indicating his defense is better than Doflamingo, only the opposite.



Canute87 said:


> His distraction only cost him his arm in the first instance from just looking to the side,  Kiji did not freeze his entire body  until some moments after.
> Flamingo had his entire fucking back turned to AoKiji when Kiji froze him.



Ok, but that distraction still caused him to lose faster than he would have if it didn' t happen, which is all I said.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 9, 2014)

2Broken said:


> Bro you are just making a whole bunch of conclusions with nothing backing them up. How do you know taking out Doflamingo would put Aokiji on top of the WG shit list? Do you think they care about avenging Shichibukai when they are willing to murder one for displaying weakness? Do you think if Aokiji killed Doflamingo to save Smoker and his crews lives, Smoker would go report the incident if he thought it would cause Aokiji problems. The truth is you can't be sure why Aokiji didn't force a fight with Doflamingo, no one can.



This man has serious deep rooted connections within the government.

You don't think an ex-marine taking him out isn't going to cause problems? Seriously?

Oh and I guess the rest of his crew aren't going to report the man missing after a few days because it's not like he told them where he was going 

Oh and yes the government wouldn't do their investigations to who were present on the island because everybody would keep all their mouths shut for some rogue marine despite any torture they might go through.

Yup everything will just bury under the rug 




> Apparently you are. I said it is possible that Doflamingo has better haki not that he does have better haki. You are the one claiming your interpretations as facts, not me.



So what's all of this?



> By simply believing Doflamingo is "stronger" than Jozu.





> Ok I see Jozu having superior defense with his diamond armor up, because he gains immense durability. *Without it I see nothing indicating his defense is better than Doflamingo, only the opposite*.



Simply believing anything doesn't make you look better at all.  I've spent most of time giving you my viewpoints with some form for reasoning behind it while you on the other hand are just feeding me your beliefs with not even one decent thought process to back it up. 

"I think Flamingo is stronger just because",  "I think his haki is stronger just because" this is all I'm getting from you apart from your laughter. 





> Ok, but that distraction still caused him to lose faster than he would have if it didn' t happen, which is all I said.



And yet again you still haven't truly addressed why Josu couldn't break out only going on groundless beliefs of flamingo's power.
You think Flamingo has better haki than Josu so there's really no point for you to answer this.  I did say that chances are i wouldn't convince you so just say your last bit and end it here cause i'm going to end up either going in circles or back and forth.

Here's my last parting gift.




> Please do.


----------



## Kings Disposition (Feb 10, 2014)

2Broken said:


> Depends on the circumstance.


In Aokiji's situation with Jozu, option #1 would clearly be better _assuming_ that both options are on par with each other. Yet he chose not to use #1 (despite its apparent advantages) anyways which *highly suggests that the ice wave attack wouldn't have been as effective and is thus the inferior option.*



2Broken said:


> Aokiji has only been shown to freeze things he is touching or is directly connected to him.


 



2Broken said:


> Freezing Jozu up close ensures Jozu can't dodge or get away,


If the ranged ice wave attack used on DD is just as effective (which most likely isn't the case) as the contact freeze attack used on Jozu, it makes absolutely no sense for Aokiji to take the time and risk of being in CQQ range to grab onto him. In addition, Jozu wouldn't be able to dodge the ice wave (again, assuming that it's on par with direct contact freeze) either since the attack covers such a wide area practically instantly.



2Broken said:


> while at the same time eliminates the possibility of friendly fire.


You mean how he friendly fired Smoker? Oh wait...



2Broken said:


> The thing is just because Aokiji didn't want to fight doesn't mean he went easy on Doflamingo when he froze him. Doflamingo was already attacking and Aokiji's main priority was saving his friend's life. He literally straight flash froze Doflamingo in order to accomplish that goal. I doubt Aokiji is overly concerned about Doflamingo's well-being and I don't really see how you guys pictured he held back when he froze the man solid. Did he use less ice, make it less it less cold, what?


When DD broke out, Buffalo shouted something along the lines of ?he wasn't frozen through and through? which implies that there is in fact different levels of being frozen.


----------



## Akitō (Feb 12, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Jozu was frozen to the core. Whatever attack Kiji used on Flamingo was not the same attack he used on Jozu.



How'd you come to that conclusion? He could've not been frozen to the core because he escaped before it happened. Not saying that Aokiji used the same strength of technique as he did on Jozu, but I think it's far more logical to assume that a lot of Aokiji's attacks freeze the enemy to the core - some just do it quicker than others.



Canute87 said:


> Josu is  one of top commander for whitebeard's crew one of the strongest pirates in the new world in case you have forgotten. How can any sensible person not draw the conclusion that the attack that flamingo took literally seconds to break out of was a weak attack compared to what kiji hit josu with?
> 
> Here you are now jumping into flamingo's supposed superior haki and then throw the  baseless argument in my face?
> 
> What reasonable grounds do you have to believe that Flamingo has superior haki to Josu?  You cannot base this on the attack Kiji hit flamingo with so where are you getting this from?



This is poor argumentation. _You_ are the one who's making the claim that Jozu has superior defense to Doflamingo and then are using that _as a fact_ to argue that Aokiji used a weaker attack on Doflamingo. 

And a logical person could rather easily deduce that Aokiji's attack on Jozu was similar in strength to his attack on Doflamingo if that's all there was to it (i.e. Jozu couldn't break out of it whereas Doflamingo could): all they'd have to believe is that Doflamingo is stronger than Jozu, which is a perfectly reasonable conclusion to have IMO. 

You've trapped yourself pretty hard here because you're the one who's making these awkward affirmative claims that really just end up as one big circular argument. You cannot logically use the reason that Jozu has better defenses than Doflamingo and thus the attack used on him was stronger because you have no proof that Jozu has a better defense. Him being a Whitebeard Commander is of little consequence because that's just an arbitrary indication of strength in relation to Doflamingo - we've no idea how Doflamingo stacks up to that.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 12, 2014)

Akitō said:


> How'd you come to that conclusion? He could've not been frozen to the core because he escaped before it happened. Not saying that Aokiji used the same strength of technique as he did on Jozu, but I think it's far more logical to assume that all of Aokiji's freeze the enemy to the core - some just do it quicker than others.



*Spoiler*: __ 







For Jozu, Aokiji (who wasn't forced to hold back as Jozu was an enemy in a war) actually physically touched Jozu, and didn't let go until Jozu was frozen solid.

*Spoiler*: __ 









For Doflamingo, Aokiji (who wasn't aiming to kill, just intimidate) hit him with a casual blast of ice, no physical contact. Buffalo mentioned DD's heart hadn't been frozen yet in that attack.


----------



## Coruscation (Feb 12, 2014)

Some doing it quicker than others flows with Canute's point. Aokiji was undoubtedly going for a kill at maximum capacity with Jozu. He did a warning shot not a killing shot on Doflamingo. The way the freezing was performed seemed to be the same though, we have seen techniques from Aokiji which freeze in a different way and they look different.


----------



## Akitō (Feb 12, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> For Jozu, Aokiji (who wasn't forced to hold back as Jozu was an enemy in a war) actually physically touched Jozu, and didn't let go until Jozu was frozen solid.
> 
> For Doflamingo, Aokiji (who wasn't aiming to kill, just intimidate) hit him with a casual blast of ice, no physical contact. Buffalo mentioned DD's heart hadn't been frozen yet in that attack.



I'm going to ask you to look at those panels again then. Aokiji didn't touch Jozu - he simply had his hands up. You can see Aokiji's right hand in mid-air, and his left-hand likely is too. The depth makes it so that Aokiji's hand looks like it's touching Jozu, but that's just because the hand is in front of Jozu and there's no other way to draw it. We know for a fact the right hand isn't touching Jozu, and we also know for a fact that the hands are symmetrically placed. It wouldn't make much sense for one hand to be touching Jozu and the other to not be when they're positioned identically. 

And I already explained why Buffalo's statement that Doflamingo hadn't been frozen yet can be used to support my conclusion. 



Coruscation said:


> Some doing it quicker than others flows with Canute's point. Aokiji was undoubtedly going for a kill at maximum capacity with Jozu. He did a warning shot not a killing shot on Doflamingo. The way the freezing was performed seemed to be the same though, we have seen techniques from Aokiji which freeze in a different way and they look different.



It does, but his reasoning was all wrong. He cannot logically argue that Aokiji's attack on Jozu was different than his attack on Doflamingo based on the fact that Jozu was frozen through whereas Doflamingo wasn't. That reasoning only works if you presume that Jozu is stronger than Doflamingo (or has a better defense). You can however argue that his attack was different based on the difference in his stance and circumstances.

What he's implying is that the attack on Doflamingo didn't have the capability to freeze to the core.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 12, 2014)

Akitō said:


> I'm going to ask you to look at those panels again then. Aokiji didn't touch Jozu - he simply had his hands up. You can see Aokiji's right hand in mid-air, and his left-hand likely is too. The depth makes it so that Aokiji's hand looks like it's touching Jozu, but that's just because the hand is in front of Jozu and there's no other way to draw it. We know for a fact the right hand isn't touching Jozu, and we also know for a fact that the hands are symmetrically placed. It wouldn't make much sense for one hand to be touching Jozu and the other to not be when they're positioned identically.


The only things I have an issue with are that Aokiji's left arm seems to stretched out and his right arm isn't (it seems to be bent, but it's hard to tell), and the lack of an ice blast coming out of Aokiji's hands, which are normally there for an attack like Ice Age (when he froze the tsunamis).


Akitō said:


> And I already explained why Buffalo's statement that Doflamingo hadn't been frozen yet can be used to support my conclusion.
> 
> It does, but his reasoning was all wrong. He cannot logically argue that Aokiji's attack on Jozu was different than his attack on Doflamingo based on the fact that Jozu was frozen through whereas Doflamingo wasn't. That reasoning only works if you presume that Jozu is stronger than Doflamingo (or has a better defense). *You can however argue that his attack was different based on the difference in his stance and circumstances.*


Ok.


----------



## Coruscation (Feb 12, 2014)

> We know for a fact the right hand isn't touching Jozu



This is nonsense Akito. You should have no problems seeing this. Aokiji has *always* been shown touching people when he deep freezes them prior to this scene and Oda drew his hand outstretched toward Jozu. There is no ice coming out of his hand or anything like that. It's the same way he always freezes people when going for killing blows. He hit Saul with a nonlethal projectile and then walked up and touched him to finish him. Oda hasn't consistently shown this in the past for no reason. It's ridiculous that the moment Aokiji froze Doflamingo at a distance an entire brigade of Doflamingo fans suddenly created the idea that him touching the enemy doesn't matter and holds no real weight. Just because you can pointlessly overanalyze the scene doesn't refute common sense and the way that 99.99% of fans read it because it's the obvious intended portrayal. Looks like the scene is showing Jozu reactively pulling away which is why the hand isn't literally touching at that exact moment.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 12, 2014)

Akitō said:


> What he's implying is that the attack on Doflamingo didn't have the capability to freeze to the core.



In your opinion,  What do you think happens if someone is frozen to the core?


----------



## Akitō (Feb 13, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> Aokiji has *always* been shown touching people when he deep freezes them prior to this scene and Oda drew his hand outstretched toward Jozu.



How do you know that he doesn't touch them because he has ample time to do so? In every case that I remember, he froze them almost casually when he touched them. In this case, he's in the middle of a battle with an extremely strong character who has extremely fast reactions. And why does there have to be ice coming out of his hand? Hasn't it been shown that his ice isn't necessarily a projectile from the scene with Doflamingo? 

Don't get me wrong: I still find the same conclusion as you. That is, I maintain that he put in more effort against Jozu than he did against Doflamingo. I just don't like seeing false claims, regardless of what side they support. 



			
				Canute87 said:
			
		

> In your opinion, What do you think happens if someone is frozen to the core?



They can't escape the freeze and have to be thawed out.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 13, 2014)

I just read this page and the last page....What the hell are you guys even talking about?

If its which attack was stronger then the one on Jozu was more powerful. 

If your wondering why DD is not a dead man its cause he used Haki so he did not get turned into a Popsicle, and used his mighty muscles to break out of the thin layer of ice around his body.That and of course Aokiji was not going all out. If he hit DD with Ice time he would be a dead man, but so would most people anyway.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 13, 2014)

Akitō said:


> They can't escape the freeze and have to be thawed out.



So then you believe what chopper said about having to thaw a person frozen to the core slowly as exposure to extreme heat would have caused damage tissue?

Next,  do you think Doflamingo would have been frozen to the core if he did nothing?  Judging from your responses you're assuming the attack would have eventually core frozen flamingo.


----------



## Coruscation (Feb 13, 2014)

> How do you know that he doesn't touch them because he has ample time to do so?



Why are you looking at this from an in universe point of view and not from why Oda as a writer does what he does? Please tell me why Oda constantly draws Aokiji touching people directly to deep freeze/deal killing blows, every single time, and then draws Aokiji's hand outstretched toward Jozu's arm in a scene where Jozu's arm gets frozen? How can you not see that the scene is showing us that Aokiji touched and froze Jozu's arm? You are way too clear-sighted to sit here and make this argument.



> In this case, he's in the middle of a battle with an extremely strong character who has extremely fast reactions.



Jozu was *distracted*. It was the very point of the scene that Jozu became unfortunately distracted and this allowed Aokiji to land a crippling freeze on him. Aokiji seized the chance and went for a lethal strike. Prior to that he obviously had been unable to inflict any freezes of that sort on Jozu which doesn't rhyme well with your and other Doflamingo fans' idea that distance and contact don't matter and apparently Oda has only draw it consistently for shits and giggles.



> And why does there have to be ice coming out of his hand? Hasn't it been shown that his ice isn't necessarily a projectile from the scene with Doflamingo?



Because *every single other time prior to that scene* that is how it has been shown. Either he touches (all but one case) or he sends out ice from his hands that in turn makes direct contact with the object to be frozen (tsunami freezes). His major deep freezes don't randomly transfer through the air. He transfers his ice directly to the person he freezes when he wants to go for a killing blow. Like I said this idea was only born the moment Doflamingo fans wanted to argue he used the same move on both of them and that direct contact doesn't matter. Prior to that scene it would have been utterly baseless and no one would even think to argue it because we have consistently seen that Aokiji touches people to freeze them. That's why that's the way Oda drew him from his introduction time and again. Distance moves are explicitly different like Ice Ball on Whitebeard or Ice Time Capsule on Saul. All this makes no sense at all if distance and contact don't matter. What he did on Doflamingo and Jozu were different things even if the basic mechanic was the same. Once was merely intended as a warning shot, the other a killing blow, facilitated through the direct contact Aokiji has always been shown using when he wants to conclusively end things. Doflamingo was expectedly able to resist a relatively low power freeze.



> I just don't like seeing false claims, regardless of what side they support.



It's the same with me which is why I reacted here. That Aokiji touched Jozu's arm and froze him is such an immediately common-sense reading of the scene that I don't even remember being question a single time prior to this. It's what anyone will see by looking at the scene and knowing who Aokiji is and there's no reason whatsoever to think it isn't exactly what Oda intended to convey.


----------



## Akitō (Feb 13, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> So then you believe what chopper said about having to thaw a person frozen to the core slowly as exposure to extreme heat would have caused damage tissue?



Yes. 



> Next,  do you think Doflamingo would have been frozen to the core if he did nothing?  Judging from your responses you're assuming the attack would have eventually core frozen flamingo.



Yes. 



Coruscation said:


> Please tell me why Oda constantly draws Aokiji touching people directly to deep freeze/deal killing blows, every single time, and then draws Aokiji's hand outstretched toward Jozu's arm in a scene where Jozu's arm gets frozen?



Because his freeze is stronger when he touches people. That in no way somehow correlates to the fact that he froze Jozu by touching him considering (IMO) we have evidence that somewhat contradicts that. He had his arms outstretched because that's how he freezes people. 

We see in the panel before he freezes Jozu that his arms is outstretched and he wasn't touching Jozu. Then we see in the next panel that his right hand is outstretched in a similar fashion and his left hand is in front of Jozu's body (not clear whether or not he's making contact or not). My interpretation is just that Aokiji outstretched his arms (that's his fighting stance) and froze Jozu without making contact with him. This is because in all the panels that we have a clear view of Aokiji's arms, he isn't touching Jozu. 




> Jozu was *distracted*. It was the very point of the scene that Jozu became unfortunately distracted and this allowed Aokiji to land a crippling freeze on him. Aokiji seized the chance and went for a lethal strike.



Okay. And how exactly does this mean that he had the chance to touch him? He couldn't freeze Jozu before. Now he can. That in no way implies that he had the chance to contact-freeze Jozu. The distraction could've just given him a chance to distance-freeze Jozu, something that he didn't have before that. 



> Prior to that he obviously had been unable to inflict any freezes of that sort on Jozu which doesn't rhyme well with your and other Doflamingo fans' idea that distance and contact don't matter and apparently Oda has only draw it consistently for shits and giggles.



Where'd you get this from? Nowhere did I state that distance and contact don't matter. I genuinely think the exact opposite, really. 



> Because *every single other time prior to that scene* that is how it has been shown. Either he touches (all but one case) or he sends out ice from his hands that in turn makes direct contact with the object to be frozen (tsunami freezes). His major deep freezes don't randomly transfer through the air. He transfers his ice directly to the person he freezes when he wants to go for a killing blow.



In the Doflamingo scene we didn't see any sort of projectile ice coming out of Aokiji. Not saying that isn't the case, but it's hard to tell from that scene (just like it is in the Doflamingo scene). You'd think that even if Aokiji was touching Jozu, the moment Jozu moved his arm away from Aokiji, ice should've been coming out of Aokiji's hand regardless because he was in the middle of freezing. Moreover, in the first panel we see ice starting to stem from Aokiji's hand. 



> Like I said this idea was only born the moment Doflamingo fans wanted to argue he used the same move on both of them and that direct contact doesn't matter.



This might be the case with others, but it certainly isn't why I believe it.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 13, 2014)

Akitō said:


> Yes.
> 
> Yes.




Then do you  believe that Buggy and his crew were *eventually* frozen to the core by AoKiji when they were cutting off the feed from the rest of the world?

They were frozen for a long time compared to Flamingo.


----------



## Akitō (Feb 13, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Then do you  believe that Buggy and his crew were *eventually* frozen to the core by AoKiji when they were cutting off the feed from the rest of the world?
> 
> They were frozen for a long time compared to Flamingo.



Um, sure. I already know how this chain of reasoning flows and it doesn't work because you've no way of showing that the ice attack that Aokiji used was of similar potency to the one that he used on Doflamingo, nor did I ever claim that literally every one of Aokiji's attacks have the ability to freeze to the core.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 13, 2014)

Akitō said:


> Um, sure. I already know how this chain of reasoning flows and it doesn't work because you've no way of showing that the ice attack that Aokiji used was of similar potency to the one that he used on Doflamingo, nor did I ever claim that literally every one of Aokiji's attacks have the ability to freeze to the core (although I do believe that this one probably did).



And here i thought you would have played with me a little longer.  Guess you want to end it.

Okay so then for what reason then would the attack he used on Buggy and his crew not have that potency to core freeze eventually?  Why do you think the attack wasn't that strong?


----------



## Akitō (Feb 13, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Okay so then for what reason then would the attack he used on Buggy and his crew not have that potency to core freeze eventually?  Why do you think the attack wasn't that strong?



I don't necessarily think it didn't have the potency to freeze him eventually, although I do think that's a possibility. I think it might've been that it didn't have the time to freeze him. And I think the attack wasn't that strong because Aokiji isn't a killer and his enemy was like an ant to him. All he wanted to do was stop the video display.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 14, 2014)

Akitō said:


> I don't necessarily think it didn't have the potency to freeze him eventually, although I do think that's a possibility. I think it might've been that it didn't have the time to freeze him. And I think the attack wasn't that strong because Aokiji isn't a killer and his enemy was like an ant to him. All he wanted to do was stop the video display.



Well i don't know about the not a killer part.

He was going to break robin apart and he spared luffy's life because of crocodile's defeat both of these people were frozen to core even though they were bugs to him.

But i think it's more accurate to say that he isn't into senseless killing.

So you've given me a lovely reason to why buggy and fodder didn't see the wrath of aokiji.

So now i have to ask the obvious question.  Why couldn't  he have used a relatively weak attack if it's  purpose was just to stop doflamingo from hurting smoker any further?


----------



## Akitō (Feb 14, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> So now i have to ask the obvious question.  Why couldn't  he have used a relatively weak attack if it's  purpose was just to stop doflamingo from hurting smoker any further?



That was my position to begin with, so I'm not sure why you're asking this. My issue was with how you reached the conclusion that you did.  I'll quote my original post because you seem to have misunderstood:



> How'd you come to that conclusion? He could've not been frozen to the core because he escaped before it happened. Not saying that Aokiji used the same strength of technique as he did on Jozu, but I think it's far more logical to assume that a lot of Aokiji's attacks freeze the enemy to the core - some just do it quicker than others.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 14, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Well i don't know about the not a killer part.
> 
> He was going to break robin apart and he spared luffy's life because of crocodile's defeat both of these people were frozen to core even though they were bugs to him.
> 
> ...



Maybe cause Aokiji the dude that told Smoker to tell Akainu to send Admirals after DD. Does not think DD is fodder trash, and would send out a more then relatively speaking weak attack to stop him from cutting his friends head off.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 14, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Maybe cause Aokiji the dude that told Smoker to tell Akainu to send Admirals after DD. Does not think DD is fodder trash, and would send out a more then relatively speaking weak attack to stop him from cutting his friends head off.



When I mean relatively weak I mean in comparison to his direct touch .


----------



## Freechoice (Feb 14, 2014)

Wow. 18 people voted Doflamingo. That's wack. 

Some of which I thought were logical and respectable posters.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 14, 2014)

What said:


> Wow. 18 people voted Doflamingo. That's wack.
> 
> Some of which I thought were logical and respectable posters.



Well what are their reasoning behind it?


----------



## Magician (Feb 14, 2014)

If Doflamingo's in the poll and it's positive, I'm voting him no matter what.

Cause that's my ninja way, dattebayo!


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 14, 2014)

Doflamingo lasts longer. I think his fighting style and power set makes him better suited for evading and employing more ranged tactics against Aokiji. This doesn't mean that I think that Doflamingo is stronger than Jozu. It's just that he's better suited for this particular scenario.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 14, 2014)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Doflamingo lasts longer. I think his fighting style and power set makes him better suited for evading and employing more ranged tactics against Aokiji. This doesn't mean that I think that Doflamingo is stronger than Jozu. It's just that he's better suited for this particular scenario.



Ah the man with reason appears.


----------

