# Gemini Aspros vs. Chakravartin the Creator



## NightmareCinema (Jun 3, 2015)

Well, since Asura's Wrath seems to have gotten some upgrades, let's see how this goes.

Speed equalized.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 3, 2015)

the whole galaxy sized shenanigans are still being debated so dunno about it nor how would it affect the character besides its size
but funnily enough attack aoe might not be a trouble for aspros
thing is, defteros galaxian explosion  destroyed an entire section of another dimension full of planets and stars all while degel claimed "the galaxy is being destroyed within his punch"
neither is his dc nor dura lacking considering how eos aspros fucked over yohma who was somehow relevant to kamui tenma iirc (who should easily sits around the multi galaxy tier)
not to talk about his acasuality and low godly regen
so yeah aspros who is quite stronger than defteros (hell, eos aspros is pretty much the amalgam of both defteros and aspros) should be able to replicate the former aoe and kill chak with his GE


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## Atem (Jun 3, 2015)

Not the size of the galaxy, just the size of the galactic center. Not like it would make a difference. 

Gemini Aspros would still win.


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 4, 2015)

I thought Asura's Wrath top-tiers were sitting at galaxy level when I was reading all those posts regarding the art book. Maybe I'm remembering shit wrong, then.

What's Chakravartin's DC now, then? Multi solar system?


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## Atem (Jun 4, 2015)

Probably, yeah.


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## Gutts X3 (Jun 4, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> thing is, defteros galaxian explosion * destroyed an entire section of another dimension full of planets and stars* all while degel claimed "the galaxy is being destroyed within his punch"


That never happened. The stage was only the space, or the illusion of planets, formed by using Galaxian Explosion.

The attack failed to defeat the Berserker. The Berserker which was fastened with a chain for Bronze and Silver.

In the Lost Canvas there is no feat of planet buster in the history.


iwandesu said:


> not to talk about his acasuality and low godly regen


Aspros has no regeneration is a human.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2015)

Gutts X3 said:


> No, not that way. Defteros not destroy any dimension in that scene. Only use the Galaxian Explosion.


the dimension disappears 


> It is a small black hole, I do not destroy anything around him. In Lost Canvas none of the techniques destroyed a planet.


the "small black hole" is big and lasts enough black hole wise to be far more strong than planet level 



> Lost Canvas is currently no canon


Lost canvas is non cannon to saint seiya verse
the opposite however is not truth
LC does plenty references to the saint seiya verse and it clearly is based on it:
>the five bronze saints are showed
>kagaho wanting to return to protect hades(aka shun and ikki)
>aiacos being indeed suikyo
>seiya in a whellchair is showed


> A Gold Saint as Teneo said they could not stop a landslide.
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Aldebaran Gaiden 1_


>could not stop a landslide
>had just stopped a landslide a couple of pages before that
>AOE is usually a bitch to saints and you know it 
>there are a pletoria of better feats in verse like tenma destroying an artificial moon, hades tk'ing a country, and that guy on kardia gaiden casually obliterating a city 
>comparing a fucking novice taurus saint like teneo who does nothing in the enterity of his gaiden besides jerk himself to his master memory to a guy who clothless put degel against a wall
yeah...sure   


> Of course I've read all Lost Canvas, even their gaidens, which probably have not read.


oh, i did read the gaidens as well as have bought the enterity of lc and the first 12 of the former
but this is beyond the point


> No, just send it to another dimension with Marvelous Room. Never disintegrated anyone with this technique. Shion was also trapped inside the Marvelous Room and was not disintegrated.


i see your memory is failing again
shion was never properly sent to the marvelous room (a dimension where all matter and time holds no shape), aspros started undoing the lock right before it

*Spoiler*: __ 








also you forgot what marvelous room does to the ones that have received it



> No, in the end only disappeared because his life ended. His soul was never destroyed. The eighth sense only allows them to revive for a moment.


>his life just ended
it seems you are forgetting what path of gods does

and that you are ignoring how long eight sense allowed guys like shaka, athena (and all the ones who went to hell btw) to live in hell and after it.
as for kairos power i never read shion gaiden because i'm waiting to buy it so can't comment in it
but on lc he hummiliated shion and casually broke his cristal wall
and wasn't getting partita treatment from kamui tenma
so that's why i said what i said
but regarding the first scans...
"little help" my ass
he says he needed the help of countless of generations of aries saint 
this is worse than saying thanatos and hypnos are weaksauce because got defeated by just a bunch of losers souls
it seems you also can't read spanish


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 4, 2015)

Wait, is this guy really using low-end showings and disregarding the overall lore/mythos in order to downplay The Lost Canvas? Or Saint Seiya in general?


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## Qinglong (Jun 4, 2015)

I love the smell of Vector Prime arguments in the evening

oh wait, no I don't


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## Gutts X3 (Jun 4, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> the dimension disappears


He did not destroy any dimension in that scene.


> the "small black hole" is big and lasts enough black hole wise to be far more strong than planet level


It's just a small black hole, which does not destroy a house.


> Lost canvas is non cannon to saint seiya verse
> the opposite however is not truth
> LC does plenty references to the saint seiya verse and it clearly is based on it:
> >the five bronze saints are showed
> ...


Lost Canvas is not canon with nothing.


> >could not stop a landslide
> >had just stopped a landslide a couple of pages before that
> >AOE is usually a bitch to saints and you know it
> >there are a pletoria of better feats in verse like tenma destroying an artificial moon, hades tk'ing a country, and that guy on kardia gaiden casually obliterating a city
> ...


- Teneo only managed to stop a small landslide. The biggest collapse came after was impossible for him.
Deathmask with a finger was more powerful than Teneo.

*Spoiler*: _Saintia Sho 18_ 







This is a real achievement of planet buster by the goddess Eris.

*Spoiler*: _Saintia Sho 21_ 








Milo defeated to Eris in combat.

*Spoiler*: __ 











- The moon of unknown size, a small country nothing like planet, and alone was the strongest character. That was a god as the Tezcatlipocatl.
-Teneo was fighting with Kairos. Kairos only managed to win fighting dirty.


> oh, i did read the gaidens as well as have bought the enterity of lc and the first 12 of the former
> but this is beyond the point


I have read or seen all Saint Seiya.

Saint Seiya (all the manga and anime)
Episode G.
Episode G: Assassing 
Saintia Sho.
Lost Canvas 
Lost Canvas Gaiden
Etc.


> i see your memory is failing again
> shion was never properly sent to the marvelous room (a dimension where all matter and time holds no shape), aspros started undoing the lock right before it
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


It's just a portal to another dimension, never proved otherwise. So Shion was never disintegrated, they are human and do not have any type of feedback.


> >his life just ended
> it seems you are forgetting what path of gods does
> 
> and that you are ignoring how long eight sense allowed guys like shaka, athena (and all the ones who went to hell btw) to live in hell and after it.


Aspros never fell into the path of the gods.
Those are Shaka and Athena in classical. In Lost Canvas, the Gold Saint only revived for a few seconds With the eighth sense.


> as for kairos power i never read shion gaiden because i'm waiting to buy it so can't comment in it
> but on lc he hummiliated shion and casually broke his cristal wall


Shion was weakened by his fight against Lune.


> and wasn't getting partita treatment from kamui tenma
> so that's why i said what i said
> but regarding the first scans...
> "little help" my ass
> ...


No, just getting help from Avenir (a loser Gold Saint), so his image appeared behind Shion (these are the generations, the future (Avenir) and last (Shion)). The Gold Cloth only stores the cosmos of his former holder (not to all former holder). The same happened with Seiya and the cosmos of  Aiolos in their fight against Aiolia and Aiolia was not overcome by Seiya in any way. 
Aiolia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kairos.
Tanathos beat the Bronze Saints (with Gold Cloth) with a single attack happened. Kairos could not even kill Shion Teneo or (rookie).
Tanathos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a god fail as Kairos.
Claro que hablo espa?ol es mi idioma natal.


NightmareCinema said:


> Wait, is this guy really using low-end showings and disregarding the overall lore/mythos in order to downplay The Lost Canvas? Or Saint Seiya in general?


Only Lost Canvas because it is not canon with Saint Seitya and not feats planet buster in the history.


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## Qinglong (Jun 4, 2015)

All this is missing is mach 18 seiya Tenma


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## Qinglong (Jun 4, 2015)

Seriously this is like saying no one in GT is a planet buster because it's non canon


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 4, 2015)

Just telling you right now...

Aspros' Arc Geminga (mini black hole) that he used during his Gaiden? Calc'd at borderline solar system level. And that's a casual technique as well. So fuck off with the "no planetbusting in Lost Canvas" bullshit.

And yes, Galaxian Explosion is still galaxy level (at the very least) in LC. Ain't shit changed about that.
Now quit downplaying.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 4, 2015)

LC copypastes concepts from the original manga to the letter 

there's no reason why the general shit from it shouldn't carry over, like Libra Weapons being starbusters and so on


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

Lost Canvas and more or less every Saint Seiya spin off are  copy-pastas of the original, really.


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

CD with that ninja

wai couldn't you wait another second tho?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 4, 2015)

get rekt, stables


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

You've only proven you're a quickshot bish


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jun 4, 2015)

I see Saint Seiya still causes the best debates.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2015)

but of course 
the better the series the worse are its downplayers


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jun 5, 2015)

Qinglong said:


> I love the smell of Vector Prime arguments in the evening
> 
> oh wait, no I don't



roflmao Vectorprime, I remember that ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) saying the saints are not even mach 1 due to them being shown having peak human running speed when trying to save Athena or some shit and that I probably do not even read/watch Saint Seiya, to which I showed him Seiya creating a sonic boom *in the 1st fucking volume/episode* 

Got to love how Saint Seiya downplayers literally always point the finger and spout "b-but you don't even read the series" I mean good god, talk about the pot calling the kettle black


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jun 5, 2015)

Seiya has a country level feat in the first goddamn chapter due to atomization 

and they only got stronger from that point on


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## Atem (Jun 5, 2015)

It was actually something other than atomization that was more impressive since they're destroying the atoms themselves. At least that's what I got from the dialogue and what that calculation was based off IIRC.


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## Qinglong (Jun 5, 2015)

The low end was like gigatons iirc


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## Atem (Jun 5, 2015)

Then again there's some molecules that consist of just one non-bonded atom, and destroying it would technically be atomization since it's specifically the destruction of molecules but maybe that's a case-by-case basis I don't know.


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## DarkLordDragon (Jun 7, 2015)

Well Gutts you can't compare Classic Spectres with LC ones, however you can easily compare Shion. Since Shion stated in the classic manga to be in his prime 18 years old or so and in LC, Shion was in his prime. Yet this same Shion compared to classic Gold Saints was the strongest or at least top-tier where Saga, Kanon, Shaka, ...etc are and they are my friend way above planet busting. Said that, Aspros would toy with Shion anytime and anywhere! Saying Kairos was defeated by Shion is not true, what Shion was fighting was only portion image of Kairos (correct me if I am wrong), and the only thing he could do break from time-cage. 

When Aspros was fighting Kairos he was already way stronger than Tenma who could blow part of the moon with a shockwave of his punch. I don't see any prove that Kairos is weaker than Thanatos or Hypnos! As for the attack used by Kairos against Aspros, he simply was rewinding Aspros' time before he even exists, Aspros yet returned because he became Immortal thanks to Hades, this is clearly stated in the manga, to me, returning after they return you to a time before you even exist is even more impressive.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 7, 2015)

Kairos at the point where he was about to fight Aspros didn't show serious problems dodging God Cloth Tenma's Ryu Sei Ken attack

so he's implied to be pretty powerful


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## Iwandesu (Jun 7, 2015)

Gutts X3 said:


> Then you have no feats of planet buster in the Lost Canvas.


you don't need to planet bust to be a planet or even above it
>tenma destroyed the double of the moon and saga created a small blackhole way stronger than 
the needed for planet level


> Kurumada has indicated that it is not canon. The actual canon of Saint Seiya is the Next Dimension.


kurumada=/= shiori
he decides saint seiya cannon she decides LC cannon


> - Kardia never fought against Tezcatlipocatl. He just fight against Huexda (Tezcatlipocat priest).


child athena lol noped the full powered explosion of tezcatlipocat 
huexda was stated to have absorbed the power of tezcatlipocat as well as using its cloth with the ability to absorb any kind of heat and yet kardia still exploded him with it
hell kardia latent heat was needed to make tezcatlipocat reach its true potential (hence huexda wanting his heart) and even played a role in the beam that obliterated mountains and a city 
so no he easily scalles to that beam.


> - Degel died at that time. He sacrificed his life to freeze the city.
> - Deathmask destroyed the Saint Academy with a finger without straining.


huexda casual shatered the god temple without straining
feiyan can nonchalantly summon storms and hurricanes with his cosmo alone and dohko surpassed it with his rozan hyakuryu ha
hakurei shattered a meteor throwed by hypnos without a cloth (strong GS are at least comparable to him)
defteros can cause earthquakes strong enough to erupt or stop vulcans in casual basis
so again there are plenty good feats.


> Not the size of the 2nd moon does not compare to the original, this moon was even within the atmosphere of the planet and destroy only a portion of the 2nd moon.


the moon was much farther than the lost canvas in the background and it has fucking italia (from when alone tk'ed it) as part of it 



> Teneo fight a fail god Kairos as the Shion Gaiden and Kairos only win the fighting with cheating.


never read shion gaiden i will need a link to this


> I read all the material from Saint Seiya. Because in Spanish, it is fully translated almost any material of Saint Seiya.
> 
> The complete material of Saint Seiya.
> 
> ...


oh no, i guess your saint seiya dick is bigger than mine,then
are you for real, bro ? 


> It is the same technique or the same movement. No disintegrates anyone, and the cloths had not a scratch.


it does in panel and by statements when he use it against defteros
the cloth also is getting desintegrated on that panel
if anything when he fused with defteros he obtained the ability to repair and switch between both his sapuris and gc (like he did against alone and kairos himself)  
also he did went through the path of gods 
hell the only reason kairos died was because he himself went with him there
hence why he became dust right after having his redemption talk with athena
and even if he didn't manigoldo sure did
and manigoldo sure was there to kick hades ass with zodiac exclamation


> No, that was only the cosmos of Hasgard in the Taurus Cloth. As Aiolos was presented at the Sagittarius Cloth in the fight against Aiolia.


fair enough


> that was just your old carrier (Avenir), the cloths only retain the cosmos of his former carrier, as the case of the Sagittarius Cloth with the cosmos of Aiolos. The cosmos of Aiolos is present to help to Seiya in his fight against Aiolia.


no it wasn't.
 it is outright stated that the cloth was boosted with many generations of aries saints cosmo and no matter if you are a native speaker or even a brazilian like me you should be able to spot such clear phrase like this


> Of course Spanish is my language. Why do you think that only the image of Avenir appears behind  of Shion?. The generations of Aries Saints are Avenir and Shion (rookie).


are you for real ?


> "it is not just my power"
> "the cosmo of succesive generations of aries saints inside this cloth is giving me the power needed"


> sucessive generarions of saint inside this cloth are sudeenly i and the guy besides me
do you even know the implications of  "sucesivas generaciones" ?



> snip


bunch of low ends bs and downplaying 
said warriors could just be that strong
just because the attack didn't destroy more shit doesn't mean it was stronger
tenma as a rookie saint has a pletoria of excelent bit feats that gs more than utterly no sold so the hakurei part is so pathetic i can't even try to stop me from laughing 
or have you forgotten how he destroyed a huge rock to stop the flow that would destroy his village in the second chapter


> - Shion was weakened by his fight against Lune.


shion was actually in quite shape after resting and nowhere is implied that he was any weaker than before the fight
hell you realise that saints can get stronger the more tired they are, right ?



> - A Shion experienced as  Kyōkō and in good condition.He stopped their attack with one hand without using a cloth.


raws without context and i don't doubt that a prime pope level character can possible beat the sealed base kairos 
hell if anything prime shion was just this strong, he did make mu look like a joke and was in the head of saga and the other spectres
a shion experienced as kyoko>>>>>>>>any shion ever so the point is moot


*Spoiler*: _Shion Gaiden 6_ 







- Kairos even claims not to destroy the Gold Cloth of Aries.



again raws
wait them to be translated


> - Manigoldo and Sage were being protected with seals Athena.
> Tanathos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a fail god as Kairos.


so ?
thanatos nearly one shotted manigoldo wasn't for sage stopping the final bit of the attack with athena seals
and shion nearly got killed twice by kairos
in one divine tenma protected him after shion cristal wall got lol noped
in the other aspros saved his ass
your example doesn't really prove much


> The Bronze Saint, at that time were as strong as the Gold Saint.
> - Seiya had beaten Valentine with a kick.
> - Hyoga fight with Minos, and his attacks were absolute zero.
> - Ikki defeated to Aiacos.
> - Shiryu defeated three spectres simultaneously.


GS level ? sure 
top gs level ? debatable
beating valentine didn't stop shaka from lol noping seiya
hell, dohko defeated amped versions (well at least basilisc was) of the 3 spectres shiryu faced in a row
ikki lost a couple of times in that battle and just used his phoenix shenanigans to amp himself and learn about aiacos moveset
kanon pretty much lol noped radamanthys on their latters encounters for similar reasons
back to LC 8th sense syshiphus had no trouble beating aiacos and his fucking ship altogether
and degel attack could also go below absolute zero


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## Gutts X3 (Jun 11, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> you don't need to planet bust to be a planet or even above it
> >tenma destroyed the double of the moon and saga created a small blackhole way stronger than
> the needed for planet level


It was only a portion of a moon of unknown size. Several characters in fiction create mini black holes and therefore are not destroyers of the planet.
This is not planet buster.

*Spoiler*: _Aspros Gaiden_ 











> kurumada=/= shiori
> he decides saint seiya cannon she decides LC cannon


Kurumada is the author of the franchise, he says it's canon and what is not. Especially with a manga that does not follow the line of classic manga.


> child athena lol noped the full powered explosion of tezcatlipocat
> huexda was stated to have absorbed the power of tezcatlipocat as well as using its cloth with the ability to absorb any kind of heat and yet kardia still exploded him with it
> hell kardia latent heat was needed to make tezcatlipocat reach its true potential (hence huexda wanting his heart) and even played a role in the beam that obliterated mountains and a city
> so no he easily scalles to that beam.


He was arrested before he attacked, and it was a goddess.
There were two distinct entities, and Huexda was only using the Nahual Tezcalipoca.
No, only used it to feed tezcatlipoca (or turn on the machine), and the strength of the God is completely separate
No, because the strength of the god was always apart and in the end was only stopped by Athena.


> huexda casual shatered the god temple without straining
> feiyan can nonchalantly summon storms and hurricanes with his cosmo alone and dohko surpassed it with his rozan hyakuryu ha
> hakurei shattered a meteor throwed by hypnos without a cloth (strong GS are at least comparable to him)
> defteros can cause earthquakes strong enough to erupt or stop vulcans in casual basis
> so again there are plenty good feats.


-That attack was not casual, wearing full force and damage to Kardia. Only damage a little pyramid.
-It was the most powerful attack of Dohko and Feiyan. Deathmask only use one finger.
-Nothing impressive, was a small meteor.
-Nothing impressive. Moizes divided the sea with a gole and Misty caused the collapse of Mount Fuji (casually).


> the moon was much farther than the lost canvas in the background and it has fucking italia (from when alone tk'ed it) as part of it


I see only comparable damage to a small country. Nothing of planet buster.
There is no official confirmation that is the real Italy (at least that Italy does not exist in the world of Lost Canvas, since the moon was destroyed at the end), considering that at the end Tenma, Alone and Sasha died in the explosion of the 2nd moon.


> it does in panel and by statements when he use it against defteros
> the cloth also is getting desintegrated on that panel
> if anything when he fused with defteros he obtained the ability to repair and switch between both his sapuris and gc (like he did against alone and kairos himself)
> also he did went through the path of gods
> ...


That attack just threw it to another dimension. Not caused damage to Shion or the Cloths..
The Cloth not rebuilt in that way, and the Gemini Cloth was always part of the surplice. The final scene with two armor the confirmed.
He disappeared because his life as specter was over .
The superdimension not destroy the soul of anyone. So back at the end Manigoldo to use sunlight against Hades. But disappeared after of supported to Shion and Dohko.


> no it wasn't.
> it is outright stated that the cloth was boosted with many generations of aries saints cosmo and no matter if you are a native speaker or even a brazilian like me you should be able to spot such clear phrase like this
> 
> are you for real ?
> ...


No, it was just Avenir, so it is the only image that comes behind of Shion, just like a scene before Shion asks for help from Avenir.
The generations were Shion and Avenir.


> bunch of low ends bs and downplaying
> said warriors could just be that strong
> just because the attack didn't destroy more shit doesn't mean it was stronger
> tenma as a rookie saint has a pletoria of excelent bit feats that gs more than utterly no sold so the hakurei part is so pathetic i can't even try to stop me from laughing
> or have you forgotten how he destroyed a huge rock to stop the flow that would destroy his village in the second chapter


Tenma not had nothing impressive or comparable to a Bronze Saint of the classic manga.
Tenma would die by the eruption of a volcano.


> shion was actually in quite shape after resting and nowhere is implied that he was any weaker than before the fight
> hell you realise that saints can get stronger the more tired they are, right ?


He was wounded by Lune and barely won the battle. It is clear that Shion was not in good condition.


> raws without context and i don't doubt that a prime pope level character can possible beat the sealed base kairos
> hell if anything prime shion was just this strong, he did make mu look like a joke and was in the head of saga and the other spectres
> a shion experienced as kyoko>>>>>>>>any shion ever so the point is moot
> 
> ...


Shion with 200 years old in a body of 18 years thanks to Hades. No comparison with Shion only 15 years later.
Shion (over 200 years' experience in a body of 18) >>>>>>>>>>> Mu (Saint Seiya) >>> Shion (post war against Hades).
For something Mu defeated two Gold Saint simultaneously.
The script in spanish and french of Chapter by Archange this completed.


> so ?
> thanatos nearly one shotted manigoldo wasn't for sage stopping the final bit of the attack with athena seals
> and shion nearly got killed twice by kairos
> in one divine tenma protected him after shion cristal wall got lol noped
> ...


If they had not had seals Athena would have died from the beginning and Sage prepare that fight for 200 years.
Shion was weakened.
As I said:
Tanathos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a fail god as Kairos.


> GS level ? sure
> top gs level ? debatable
> beating valentine didn't stop shaka from lol noping seiya
> hell, dohko defeated amped versions (well at least basilisc was) of the 3 spectres shiryu faced in a row
> ...


Seiya was not fighting against Shaka.
Dohko had to use weapons of Libra to beat to Gordos. These specters were weaker than the classic and Shiryu overcame the three specters simultaneously with an attack.
Shiryu >>> Dohko (TLC)
No, the fight was equaled and Ikki overcame it. Ikki thought fight after against Minos and Radamanthys.
He was seriously wounded in that battle. The boat ridiculous makes no difference. 
Aiacos (Saint Seiya) >>>> Aiacos (TLC)
He could have killed to Kanon if Rada had not interfered (as shown in Taizen).
Degel only able to arrive at absolute zero once in their life (in a momentary miracle). Hyoga from the saga of Poseidon exceeded Isaac (with attacks absolute zero).
Hyoga >> Degel (momentary miracle) >>> Degel (base)


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 11, 2015)

Gutts, shut the fuck up and stop downplaying Lost Canvas.

Also, just let this thread die already. Seriously, you're not doing anyone any favors with this shit. Iwandesu already wrecked you. End of story.


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## Fang (Jun 11, 2015)

Saga I mean Defteros wins with 1 punch

Edit: I mean Aspros


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