# Minato VS Itachi



## El Hermano (Jan 10, 2015)

*Minato VS Itachi
*



*Restrictions:*No kyuubi for Minato.

*Knowledge:* Minato knows about the sharingan and how to avoid it and Itachi has no knowledge.

*Battlefield: *The place when Minato first fought The Masked Man(Obito).

*Starting Distance:* 15 meters.

*State of Mind : *They just want to kill each other.

*Scenario 1 **-* Itachi is sick

*Scenario 2 **-* Itachi is healthy.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Both scenario's end the same. Minato fucks him up. Once Minato starts he puts it on. He hit Obito with a rasengan, put a tag on him, hiraishin'd to him, stabbed him, took control of Kurama away, and did it in succession without any room for Obito to breathe. Against Ei, he threw a kunai behind him, teleported to another kunai, grabbed it, teleported back, went to slice him in half, Bee blocked it, and Minato instantly tagged Bee. When he makes a move, he makes 4/5 more in an instant and he's going to overwhelm Itachi too much. Once Itachi uses 1 MS jutsu and slows down then he has 0% chance and in base he has 0% chance. Minato's too fast, too smart, and puts on too much pressure for Itachi to have breathing room for a plan.

Minato wins 10/10 no dif.


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## Ghost (Jan 10, 2015)

*SC1*: Minato beats nearly blind and dying Itachi quite comfortably.

*SC2:* Minato is not fast enough to blitz without Hiraishin and is unable to place any marked kunai near Itachi due to the latter's way superior shuriken/kunai skills. Only option left for Minato is to engage Itachi in CQC where he loses horribly. Minato only needs to look at Itachi's eyes once and he is under a genjutsu which is pretty much GG since Minato has zero feats when it comes to genjutsu. If Minato were to try and fight Itachi without looking at him above his shoulder area his performance would suffer a lot, not to mention he would now have no idea what techniques Itachi is going to use (most dangerous of them being Amaterasu which Minato would otherwise be able to dodge).

Considering how skilled Sharingan users such as Sasuke and Kakashi were unable to see Itachi forming hand seals and switching places with clones I don't see how Minato is defeating Itachi with his limited arsenal. Itachi has the tools to deal with Minato's Hiraishin but Minato has nothing against Genjutsu.

Itachi high/extreme diff.


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## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

Here we go again...

Still could go either way


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> *SC1*: Minato beats nearly blind and dying Itachi quite comfortably.



Glad there's some sense here.



> *SC2:* Minato is not fast enough to blitz without Hiraishin and is unable to place any marked kunai near Itachi due to the latter's way superior shuriken/kunai skills.



LOL. Minato's shunshin is far superior to Itachi's. He crossed Konoha in 1/2 panels. His shunshin here. He then took off the baby's blanket that had exploding tags (which were already going off), teleported, and then shunshin'd out of harms way. He's way faster than Itachi. 

And Minato has superior kunai skills. He threw upwards of 30 kunai with a single throw (single hand). Minato also blocked 18 kunai's (with ones he threw)in a split second. Itachi has what...70% accuracy while Minato's never missed. Itachi's good but he isn't blocking every single one Minato throws.



> Only option left for Minato is to engage Itachi in CQC where he loses horribly.



He can form a rasengan with one hand in literally a split second (and it's far bigger than everyone else's). His speed is far better. His reflexes are better. Minato can slice Bee's partial transformation tail off with pure strength. It won't even be a skirmish, Minato comes flying in and puts him down.



> Minato only needs to look at Itachi's eyes once and he is under a genjutsu which is pretty much GG since Minato has zero feats when it comes to genjutsu.



And knowledge lets him know how to avoid it, GG. Hell Infinite Tsukiyomi couldn't even do anything to Minato, what's Itachi going to do LOL.



> If Minato were to try and fight Itachi without looking at him above his shoulder area his performance would suffer a lot, not to mention he would now have no idea what techniques Itachi is going to use (most dangerous of them being Amaterasu which Minato would otherwise be able to dodge).



Minato teleports everything away, GG. And yes, he's teleported out of amaterasu.



> Considering how skilled Sharingan users such as Sasuke and Kakashi were unable to see Itachi forming hand seals and switching places with clones I don't see how Minato is defeating Itachi with his limited arsenal. Itachi has the tools to deal with Minato's Hiraishin but Minato has nothing against Genjutsu.
> 
> Itachi high/extreme diff.



And neither have any reflexes close to Minato (except War arc versions). Itachi has no knowledge on Minato while Minato has knowledge on how to avoid genjutsu. The first move decides it all. Minato's too quick and is going to hurt him.


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## ForzaRoma (Jan 10, 2015)

Round 1:Minato beats him.Could blitz at the beggining or just plain outlast Susanoo.

Round 2 wins.Mnato isnt breaking Susanoo with those puny Rasengans of his.Minato cant avoid amaterasu if he constantly has to avoid looking at Itachi either.


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## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

>Implying Infinite Tsukuyomi's resistance come form Minato himself


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## El Hermano (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Both scenario's end the same. Minato fucks him up. Once Minato starts he puts it on. He hit Obito with a rasengan, put a tag on him, hiraishin'd to him, stabbed him, took control of Kurama away, and did it in succession without any room for Obito to breathe. Against Ei, he threw a kunai behind him, teleported to another kunai, grabbed it, teleported back, went to slice him in half, Bee blocked it, and Minato instantly tagged Bee. When he makes a move, he makes 4/5 more in an instant and he's going to overwhelm Itachi too much. Once Itachi uses 1 MS jutsu and slows down then he has 0% chance and in base he has 0% chance. Minato's too fast, too smart, and puts on too much pressure for Itachi to have breathing room for a plan.
> 
> Minato wins 10/10 no dif.



Wasn't Itachi fast enough to activate susano'o as soon as Kirin hit him ?


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> >Implying Infinite Tsukuyomi's resistance come form Minato himself



Only top level ninja's like Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato resisted it .



FlyingPan said:


> Wasn't Itachi fast enough to activate susano'o as soon as Kirin hit him ?



No, Sasuke bragged about it for a whole chapter. Itachi knew what was coming and had plenty of time to put it up.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 10, 2015)

15 meters?!?!?!

Id say with the sharingan, Itachi should just about be able to react to Minatos shunshin. However he gets marked in the process and it's game over.


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## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Only top level ninja's like Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato resisted it .



And Hiruzen


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## Zef (Jan 10, 2015)

Minato wins both scenarios low diff. I would say neg diff, but I fear the wrath of Itachi fans.

Minato has Sage Mode, and even though he admitted to not being that good at it; his stats still receive a boost.

*Edit:* Wait, without Kurama how does Minato escape genjutsu?


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## StarWanderer (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Both scenario's end the same. Minato fucks him up. Once Minato starts he puts it on. He hit Obito with a rasengan, put a tag on him, hiraishin'd to him, stabbed him, took control of Kurama away, and did it in succession without any room for Obito to breathe. Against Ei, he threw a kunai behind him, teleported to another kunai, grabbed it, teleported back, went to slice him in half, Bee blocked it, and Minato instantly tagged Bee. When he makes a move, he makes 4/5 more in an instant and he's going to overwhelm Itachi too much. Once Itachi uses 1 MS jutsu and slows down then he has 0% chance and in base he has 0% chance. Minato's too fast, too smart, and puts on too much pressure for Itachi to have breathing room for a plan.
> 
> Minato wins 10/10 no dif.



Minato wins most likely 8/10, because there is slight chance for him to be caught in Tsukuyomi, or Amaterasu.

And dont overestimate Minato there. Both Ei and Obito were far below their prime when they fought Minato. They were both featless at the moment.


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## El Hermano (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Only top level ninja's like Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato resisted it .
> 
> 
> 
> No, Sasuke bragged about it for a whole chapter. Itachi knew what was coming and had plenty of time to put it up.



Are you just being sarcastic and joking about him being able to resist it ? Because I dont remember anything about Minato resisting to Tsukuyomi level genjutsu .


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## StarWanderer (Jan 10, 2015)

> Only top level ninja's like Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato resisted it .



Because they were Edo.


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## sabre320 (Jan 10, 2015)

Been done many times.....minato wins has many ways to win ill state the best one....he keeps his distance dodges all of itachis attacks with ftg summons ma and pa charges frog song .....that music gg


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## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Been done many times.....minato wins has many ways to win ill state the best one....he keeps his distance dodges all of itachis attacks with ftg summons ma and pa charges frog song .....that music gg



This is a OOC tactic, so no. Same as always teleporting.


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## Ghost (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> LOL.


pls


> Minato's shunshin is far superior to Itachi's.


Uhm, okay? This is not relevant at all. Itachi is not trying to outspeed Minato here. Minato's Shunshin might be superior to Itachi's but not to the degree where he can blitz.




> And Minato has superior kunai skills.


Hahahhahah, no. Sad part is you don't really believe this shit yourself.


> He threw upwards of 30 kunai with a single throw (single hand).


When? And how does throwing multiple kunai at once indicate skill? Seems like pretty basic stuff.


> Minato also blocked 18 kunai's (with ones he threw)in a split second. Itachi has what...70% accuracy while Minato's never missed. Itachi's good but he isn't blocking every single one Minato throws.


What the fuck.

here
here
here
here

here
Itachi was almost blind here and even created a clone during that.

here

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything Minato has done. 

Don't be this pathetic.



> His speed is far better. His reflexes are better.


You're grossly over exaggerating Minato's speed and reaction advantage.


> Minato can slice Bee's partial transformation tail off with pure strength.


Those tentacles are fucking jelly.  Not impressive at all. 


> It won't even be a skirmish, Minato comes flying in and puts him down.


Minato looks at Itachi's eyes the second the match starts and loses because he is a fucking derp.



> And knowledge lets him know how to avoid it, GG.


And only way to avoid Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu is to not to look at his eyes. Minato can't afford to look above Itachi's shoulder area.


> Hell Infinite Tsukiyomi couldn't even do anything to Minato, what's Itachi going to do LOL.


Great logic 5/5



> Minato teleports everything away, GG. And yes, he's teleported out of amaterasu.



lol k





> Itachi has no knowledge on Minato while Minato has knowledge on how to avoid genjutsu.


We don't if Itachi has manga knowledge or no intel at all. OP only specified that Minato has knowledge of Itachi's genjutsu. ANd even if Itachi doesn't have knowledge it doesn't hinder him that much. He adapts into situations quickly and is not retarded enough to allow Minato to place tagged kunais around him.


> Minato has knowledge on how to avoid genjutsu



Doesn't mean he can deal with it. With your logic once Itachi knows about Hiraishin he doesn't have to worry about it all.


> The first move decides it all. Minato's too quick and is going to hurt him.


MInato's too stupid and gets Genjutsu GGd.


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## El Hermano (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Only top level ninja's like Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato resisted it .
> 
> 
> 
> No, Sasuke bragged about it for a whole chapter. Itachi knew what was coming and had plenty of time to put it up.





Saikyou said:


> pls
> 
> Uhm, okay? This is not relevant at all. Itachi is not trying to outspeed Minato here. Minato's Shunshin might be superior to Itachi's but not to the degree where he can blitz.
> 
> ...


IDK WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ,I WROTE ITACHI HAS NO KNOWLEDGE >.>


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## Ghost (Jan 10, 2015)

Did you edit that afterwards? I only noticed the Minato having Genjutsu knowledge.


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## El Hermano (Jan 10, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> Did you edit that afterwards? I only noticed the Minato having Genjutsu knowledge.



Nope



lol yeah I did ,but honestly I just forgot to add it.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 10, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> And *only way to avoid Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu is to not to look at his eyes.* Minato can't afford to look above Itachi's shoulder area.



He doesn't need his eyes for genjutsu either.  I'm sure his genjutsu cast by his eyes is stronger, but this would still be a surprise for even seasoned ninja. 

I don't follow Minato enough to make a clear call on this, but this isn't low-diff either side imo, these two are too good. Leaning towards Itachi for the versatility of his jutsu alone in scenario 2, Itachi starting sick in Scenario 1 AND having no knowledge is just too much in favor of Minato to win and makes it a really boring battle to debate. They're both Kage level, gimping Itachi that much when he's already only got twenty minutes of battle in him when pushed is a little too much. I'd almost call bias and spite if Scenario 2 didn't exist.

I'd favor Minato Scenario 1 for all the overwhelming factors he has going for him to win it, but I'd give Itachi Scenario 2 just for all around better showing in Part 1 and 2. OP didn't mention if Edo feats were included in this fight either. Either way this is a wank off and I really didn't follow Minato closely enough to go in depth. If I care to I'll come back later and assess Scenario 2.


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## Ghost (Jan 10, 2015)

Oh yeah, forgot to mention Itachi's finger genjutsu which works as a distraction fantastically.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

And couldn't even put Naruto to sleep.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 10, 2015)

Itachi was contending with three other people, one of which was Kakashi (who isn't a joke btw), and also wasn't trying to kill Naruto like he's trying to kill Minato here. It distracts Minato enough for Itachi to prepare another move or, if someone wants to make the case, it leads up to Minato's defeat. Point is, Itachi isn't limited to making eye contact to be a threat. 

The downplay is getting too real right now.


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## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

Itachi = Minato > Sick Itachi​


SoleAccord said:


> I'm sure his genjutsu cast by his eyes is stronger, but this would still be a surprise for even seasoned ninja.



I'm not sure where the notion of genjutsu that's cast with eyes being stronger developed from, but it doesn't make sense from what we know about how genjutsu is said to work.

The opponent takes control of an enemy's chakra system with a visual stimulus, and then maintains control remotely. Whether the stimulus is an eye or a finger has no effect on _maintaining_ control.

What matters in maintenance is an individual's chakra strength (sage genjutsu is stronger, for example) and genjutsu skill weighed against the enemy's chakra strength and chakra control.

After they even realize they're in genjutsu of course. Naruto had immensely strong chakra (mixed with Kurama since birth) and Kage level chakra control (Rasenshuriken.)

And Itachi's clone held him in genjutsu by all accounts. So without a Sharingan/Rinnegan or partner, you're probably not going to get out of Itachi's genjutsu before he kills you, plain and simple.

Hence why even Sage Kabuto chose to close his eyes completely rather than risk being put in genjutsu, with either Itachi's Sharingan or his finger being equally useful avenues to do so.

The only stated advantage of Sharingan genjutsu is that it requires no seals in order to use.​


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## sabre320 (Jan 10, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> This is a OOC tactic, so no. Same as always teleporting.



wtf always teleporting is ooc for minato he dodges attacks with ftg he spams it:/ fact is the toads are a part of minatos arsenal and he can utilize them in battle he can summon them he is a sage taught by them...u saying naruto cant use frog song because its ooc:/


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## Ghost (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> And couldn't even put Naruto to sleep.



Did you miss the part where Naruto was running around like a headless chicken and Itachi could've stabbed his face with a kunai had he wanted to.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

FlyingPan said:


> Are you just being sarcastic and joking about him being able to resist it ? Because I dont remember anything about Minato resisting to Tsukuyomi level genjutsu .



It was a joke.



Saikyou said:


> Uhm, okay? This is not relevant at all. Itachi is not trying to outspeed Minato here. Minato's Shunshin might be superior to Itachi's but not to the degree where he can blitz.



Minato covers the 15m before Itachi can do anything and fucks him up. Itachi might block the first hit but goes down in the first exchange.



> Hahahhahah, no. Sad part is you don't really believe this shit yourself.



I do.



> When? And how does throwing multiple kunai at once indicate skill? Seems like pretty basic stuff.



They all landed where he wanted them to, and he's done it accurately more than once.



> What the fuck.
> 
> an inch away from impaling that bunshin
> an inch away from impaling that bunshin
> ...



And? He hit stationary targets using shit that wouldn't work in battle.



> an inch away from impaling that bunshin
> Itachi was almost blind here and even created a clone during that.



And? Creating the clone means nothing. He didn't land a hit. He was able to counter but couldn't get past Sasuke's shurikens to do anything.



> an inch away from impaling that bunshin



Here you can see three kunai missed the summons eye. And he had prep time and it was a stationary target.



> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything Minato has done.
> 
> Don't be this pathetic.



Minato countered 18 kunai here(there was 18 of them and the kunai revealed all of their locations hence 18 kunai). He almost headshotted someone who was behind a tree. Minato has the better feats.



> You're grossly over exaggerating Minato's speed and reaction advantage.



Minato one of the handful of people who can react to fullspeed v2 Ei. He was the fastest ninja alive. There's no exaggerating that.



> Those tentacles are fucking jelly.  Not impressive at all.



More durable than Itachi's body.



> Minato looks at Itachi's eyes the second the match starts and loses because he is a fucking derp.



Except he knows how to avoid genjutsu. And he is one of the smartest people in the manga.



> And only way to avoid Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu is to not to look at his eyes. Minato can't afford to look above Itachi's shoulder area.



Minato blitz's before Itachi can even turn it on.



> Great logic 5/5



I know.



> lol k



He has...It's in the manga.



> We don't if Itachi has manga knowledge or no intel at all. OP only specified that Minato has knowledge of Itachi's genjutsu. ANd even if Itachi doesn't have knowledge it doesn't hinder him that much. He adapts into situations quickly and is not retarded enough to allow Minato to place tagged kunais around him.



No knowledge. He isn't going to counter kunai that's not aimed at him. Minato doesn't throw kunai at you, he throws them all around. Against Ei he threw ones up in the fucking trees.



> Doesn't mean he can deal with it. With your logic once Itachi knows about Hiraishin he doesn't have to worry about it all.
> 
> MInato's too stupid and gets Genjutsu GGd.



Here's the thing though, what can he do about hiraishin? He isn't stopping it. In their first taijutsu exchange Itachi's getting tagged. After that it's GG.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> I'm not sure where the notion of genjutsu that's cast with eyes being stronger developed from, but it doesn't make sense from what we know about how genjutsu is said to work.
> 
> The opponent takes control of an enemy's chakra system with a visual stimulus, and then maintains control remotely. Whether the stimulus is an eye or a finger has no effect on _maintaining_ control.
> 
> What matters in maintenance is an individual's chakra strength (sage genjutsu is stronger, for example) and genjutsu skill.​



It's Itachi's go-to for genjutsu placement, he only resorted to his finger once Kakashi had effectively warned everyone working with him to avoid the eyes. It had also been noted by Sakura that following someone's movements without looking directly at them was notoriously difficult (Gai is a taijutsu expert, it's no surprise he could manage that. No one else at the time could do so, and I don't take Minato for a taijutsu expert that can.) I don't say that to educate you Strate, just so everyone else is aware that this isn't just something anyone can do. If Minato tries it, I imagine he might be restricting his own ability as much as Itachi is restricted in Scenario 1. One look and this is over, and Itachi has the Clones and the abilities necessary to make contact if he wanted to, certainly. This is no 'low difficulty' win for either side though.

I could be wrong, I don't claim to be an expert on Itachi, but I know enough to not underestimate him, as did all of his canon opponents before or after a defeat.


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## sabre320 (Jan 10, 2015)

genjutsu is a non factor obito could not catch minato in genjutsu he was able to use genjutsu on a perfect jinchuriki...minato makes a clone...the clone sets up markings all around while minato throws kunais at sussano gets into range teleports sussano away the clone could then exploit this with the various ftg marking or his shunshin to land a touch itachi is marked........death sentence given...hell given ftg lv2 s range he could teleport inside sussano surprising itachi........he can dodge literally all of itachis attacks..worst comes to worse ma and pa are summoned minato gets out of range or teleports frog song prepared...

problem with minatos ftg usage is there are far too many variables to predict he spams seals and kunai...5 markers u can make a guess but the dude can literally paint the battlefield with markers not just kunai not to mention bunshins with ftg which can put more markers and kunai ..markception.....not to mention his shunshin means he can cover huge distances to position the marks better... its extremely unlikely that itachis getting eye contact from itachi.obito also has very good genjutsu feats couldnt manage it..with minato teleporting all over the place and with his shunshin...not to mention minato has magnificent chakra control and a sensor so he can sense the chakra build up of amaterasu  any hint of influence from a lesser genjutsu and he teleports out of range..

minatos s kunai feat against jubidara is amazing dude managed to throw kunai at juubidara managed to get into sm and teleported infront of madara before he even knew it this was before kakashi even managed to finish kamui warp and kakashis kamui feats are insane and unfortunately itachi does not have the physical reactions to best  minato....not to mention if he throws multiple kunai at itachis sussano any that get into range allow him to teleport itachi and his sussano

minato can troll amaterasu as in canon shown by enton rasenshuriken even on contact he can teleport away from amaterasu


fact is itachi will constantly be pressured to stay in sussano while minato can easily keep utilizing ftg...none of itachis attacks are lading minato can simply outlast itachi with his much better reserves..


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## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> genjutsu is a non factor obito could not catch minato in genjutsu



"Kakashi couldn't catch Wave Arc Sasuke in genjutsu in the p1 Bell Test."

There's no evidence Obito even tried, and many Sharingan users don't try.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> What matters in maintenance is an individual's chakra strength (sage genjutsu is stronger, for example) and genjutsu skill weighed against the enemy's chakra strength and chakra control.
> 
> After they even realize they're in genjutsu of course. Naruto had immensely strong chakra (mixed with Kurama since birth) and Kage level chakra control (Rasenshuriken.)



He didn't have kage level chakra control. The genjutsu he tried to break out of was Shouten Itachi's. When they met during the Itachi vs Sasuke arc, Naruto never tried to break it because Itachi wanted to talk.



> And Itachi's clone held him in genjutsu by all accounts. So without a Sharingan/Rinnegan or partner, you're probably not going to get out of Itachi's genjutsu before he kills you, plain and simple.



Chunnin level Naruto yea, after FRS training, no.



> Hence why even Sage Kabuto chose to close his eyes completely rather than risk being put in genjutsu, with either Itachi's Sharingan or his finger being equally useful avenues to do so.
> 
> The only stated advantage of Sharingan genjutsu is that it requires no seals in order to use.[/INDENT]



Kabuto was facing MS Itachi and EMS Sasuke. Why the fuck would you want to risk being caught in genjutsu when you have a sure counter not too?


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Minato was cutting Infinite tsukiyomi limbs down with no arms. He shunsin to Itachi and fucks him up. Itachi won't even have time for genjutsu.


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## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Chunnin level Naruto yea



Gamabunta, Decent Fox control, Rasengans, clone feinting Kakashi's clone, etc. Itachi trapped a Mid Kage level in finger genjutsu.​


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## Kyu (Jan 10, 2015)

Minato isn't losing to sickly Itachi unless he goes out of his way out to do something incredibly dumb. 

Living Minato and Healthy Itachi has always been a tossup - two ninja prodigies with the means to immediately counteract what the other brings to the fight.



> Wait, without Kurama how does Minato escape genjutsu?



-Inflicting pain on himself.
-Clone/FTG swapping feint.
-Genjutsu Kai

-Constantly teleporting around the battlefield and not get caught in the first place.

If those genjutsu do land; they'll serve as a distraction for Itachi to finish off Minato - so long as Minato doesn't break out in time - which is very likely.

Tsukuyomi is the only genjutsu that'll oneshot the Yellow Flash. The issue Itachi will face is nailing it on the most evasive fucker in his verse.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Gamabunta alone makes him low Kage level.​




Did Naruto summon Gamabunta there? No. You're fucking telling me part 1 Naruto is a kage level ninja. How the fuck...What the fuck...Are you fucking...I don't know how to address this without insulting you so let me leave it there.



> Nevermind Rasengan,



Why? That don't make him kage level?



> being able to control 3 fox tails,



Scan? He can control up to 3 fox tails but has never willingly used it in a fight. 



> clone feinting Kakashi, etc.



Kakashi bunshin feinted him there. 



> Itachi trapped a Low Kage level in finger genjutsu.



Not in this manga.


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## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> wtf always teleporting is ooc for minato he dodges attacks with ftg he spams it:/



He didn't spam FTG against Juubito and against Juudara.



> fact is the toads are a part of minatos arsenal and he can utilize them in battle he can summon them he is a sage taught by them



Toads that are literrally Genjutsu fodders.

Also Minato's a shitty Sage.



> ...u saying naruto cant use frog song because its ooc:/



Because he never summoned them, and even if he could, their summon take too much time to be pratical.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Against Ei, in that short skirmish he used FTG 3/4 times. Against Obito in one exchange he used it 4 times. He has no problem spamming FTG.


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## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Did Naruto summon Gamabunta there? No.



Just because Itachi shut down Orochimaru/Deidara/Naruto/Nagato before they used many of their jutsu doesn't make them Genin level. They're all easily S-rank with their abilities.​


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> It's in his arsenal, and his arsenal of skills puts him at *Mid Kage.*
> 
> Deal with it.



MID KAGE LOLOLOL. Naruto couldn't do shit to pre Hebi Sasuke. Him and Sakura together had to resort to sheer dumb luck plan to get the bells from Kakashi because they couldn't do anything to him. Beginning of part 1 Naruto wouldn't beat any competent jounin (Asuma, Base Gai, p1 Kakashi, etc) much less Kage nin. He was fucking weak. Having a summon doesn't make you jump 3 tiers because it has nothing to do with you're stats. If Naruto had other things and was a fighter built around summons then okay but he's not. He a close quarters combat nin who wasn't good and relied on Bunshins for trick.


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Against Ei, in that short skirmish he used FTG 3/4 times.



Correction: He used FTG twice against Ei before Bee decided to kick in.



> Against Obito in one exchange he used it 4 times.



That wasn't one exchange:
-Obito trying to sneak on him= 1
-Obito managing to grab him in his chain= 2
-Minato's finisher= 3

That's three exchange.



> He has no problem spamming FTG.



Except that spamming FTG won't make him win the fight.


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Just because Itachi shut down Orochimaru/Deidara/Naruto/Nagato before they used many of their jutsu doesn't make them Genin level. They're all easily S-rank with their abilities.​



I would edit my post after saying that shit too.

Naruto would've never used Gamabunta there unless susanoo comes out. Deidara was like 13. He didn't do shit to Nagato. And Orochimaru got away so apparently Itachi didn't shut down shit.


----------



## Ghost (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Minato covers the 15m before Itachi can do anything and fucks him up. Itachi might block the first hit but goes down in the first exchange.


Only if Minato had the speed feats to blitz Itachi from 15 meters. 



> They all landed where he wanted them to, and he's done it accurately more than once.


Ground is an easy target.




> And? He hit stationary targets using shit that wouldn't work in battle.


Anything Itachi does wouldn't work in a battle according to you. 

He did a lot more than just hit stationary target and you know it. 

1. Got around Rinnegan's shared vision
2. Hit multiple targets (some of them by redirecting the kunai mid air) with his eyes closed




> And? Creating the clone means nothing.


Yeah, creating a clone during that Shuriken skirmish is nothing. Totally. Everyone can do it.




> He didn't land a hit.


Wasn't the point.


> He was able to counter but couldn't get past Sasuke's shurikens to do anything.


Way to ignore the part where Itachi can barely see the shuriken Sasuke is throwing at him. Sasuke also had prepared seals on his wrists in order to summon shuriken directly into his hands. Otherwise Itachi would've overwhelmed him with his far superior hand speed.





> Here you can see three kunai missed the summons eye.





> And he had prep time and it was a stationary target.


You act like it was a simple target 2 meters right in front of Itachi. Yet again ignoring the fact that no one but Itachi would've been able to hit the eye in that situation.




> Minato countered 18 kunai here(there was 18 of them and the kunai revealed all of their locations hence 18 kunai). He almost headshotted someone who was behind a tree.


Seriously that is nothing. The stone ninja was targeting Kakashi, not Minato. 



> Minato has the better feats.



Don't you think its funny how no one agrees with you?



> Minato one of the handful of people who can react to fullspeed v2 Ei. He was the fastest ninja alive. There's no exaggerating that.


Minato barely reacted to Ei's max speed (and Ei wasn't even in his prime) and wasn't able to dodge without Hiraishin.

Sasuke casually reacted to Prime Ei in V1 and just barely reacted to V2. 




> More durable than Itachi's body.


Not really.



> Except he knows how to avoid genjutsu.


I'm assuming you're admitting defeat. I'll say it once again though:

Minato has been given intel on Itachi's Sharingan and how to avoid it. Please do tell me how Minato's performance is not affected if he keeps looking at Itachi's legs.




> Minato blitz's before Itachi can even turn it on.


lol no.


> And he is one of the smartest people in the manga.


Itachi is smarter.



> No knowledge. He isn't going to counter kunai that's not aimed at him. Minato doesn't throw kunai at you, he throws them all around. Against Ei he threw ones up in the fucking trees.


You can't honestly believe Itachi allow his opponent to place kunai with special tags on them near himself. 




> Here's the thing though, what can he do about hiraishin? He isn't stopping it.


As I've said Itachi can easily prevent Minato from setting up FTG kunai near him with his far superior kunai/shuriken skills.


> In their first taijutsu exchange Itachi's getting tagged. After that it's GG.


Itachi can erect Susano'o in an instant. How is Minato tagging him again?


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> MID KAGE LOLOLOL. Naruto couldn't do shit to pre Hebi Sasuke. Him and Sakura together had to resort to sheer dumb luck plan to get the bells from Kakashi because they couldn't do anything to him. Beginning of part 1 Naruto wouldn't beat any competent jounin (Asuma, Base Gai, p1 Kakashi, etc) much less Kage nin. He was fucking weak. Having a summon doesn't make you jump 3 tiers because it has nothing to do with you're stats. If Naruto had other things and was a fighter built around summons then okay but he's not. He a close quarters combat nin who wasn't good and relied on Bunshins for trick.



Just because he doesn't relie on summon doesn't mean it's not affecting his stat.

That's like saying Obito's Rinnegan doesn't increase his state since he doesn't focus on that


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Correction: He used FTG twice against Ei before Bee decided to kick in.



3 times.



> That wasn't one exchange:
> -Obito trying to sneak on him= 1
> -Obito managing to grab him in his chain= 2
> -Minato's finisher= 3
> ...



And Obito jumped back and Minato teleported to him and stabbed him so 4.



> Except that spamming FTG won't make him win the fight.



He won't have to.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Him and Sakura together had to resort to sheer dumb luck plan to get the bells from Kakashi



If Naruto had gone all out, and summoned Gamabunta, accessed say KN2, and made a few clones, then it'd be different.

It was a friendly match though.​


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> 3 times.



Once when he dodged Ei's full body speed.
Twice when he teleported to Ei's back

And like I said that was before Bee came.



> And Obito jumped back and Minato teleported to him and stabbed him so 4.



He didn't stab him and that was a follow-up of the Rasengan, so not really a exchange.



> He won't have to.



Proof that he can blitz Itachi?


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> Only if Minato had the speed feats to blitz Itachi from 15 meters.



Got across konoha in 2 panels, so yeah. He has the speed feats.



> Ground is an easy target.



A stationary target is the same thing and that's all Itachi has hit besides the Sasuke fight.



> Anything Itachi does wouldn't work in a battle according to you.



Whatever.



> He did a lot more than just hit stationary target and you know it.



Show one beside the Sasuke fight.



> 1. Got around Rinnegan's shared vision
> 2. Hit multiple targets (some of them by redirecting the kunai mid air) with his eyes closed



1. He was surprise attacking stationary targets. Damn near any ninja could've done it.
2. His eyes was closed, then he hits the targets while we never see his face, and then we see he has 3 tomoe sharingan active. He almost certainly had his eyes open.



> Yeah, creating a clone during that Shuriken skirmish is nothing. Totally. Everyone can do it.



 It has nothing to do with shuriken skill.



> Way to ignore the part where Itachi can barely see the shuriken Sasuke is throwing at him. Sasuke also had prepared seals on his wrists in order to summon shuriken directly into his hands. Otherwise Itachi would've overwhelmed him with his far superior hand speed.



Way to ignore that sick Itachi is scenario 1 here. He never showed trouble dodging.


It's okay. I know it's too much for you to counter. Facts against fanboys tend to have that effect.



> You act like it was a simple target 2 meters right in front of Itachi. Yet again ignoring the fact that no one but Itachi would've been able to hit the eye in that situation.



He missed 3/10 kunai. That's terrible.



> Seriously that is nothing. The stone ninja was targeting Kakashi, not Minato.



And he still had to counter 18 kunai in at once. Sasuke and Itachi had multiple throws while Minato didn't.



> Don't you think its funny how no one agrees with you?



Think it's funny because no one agreed with the guy who said the earth was round. People thought Einstein was crazy. Look how that shit turned out.



> Minato barely reacted to Ei's max speed (and Ei wasn't even in his prime) and wasn't able to dodge without Hiraishin.



Minato turned around and threw a kunai behind his back. He did more than enough to show he could've side stepped Ei.



> Sasuke casually reacted to Prime Ei in V1 and just barely reacted to V2.



Prove it's prime. Nothing has ever suggested Ei got faster nor slower.



> Not really.



Yes.



> I'm assuming you're admitting defeat. I'll say it once again though:
> 
> Minato has been given intel on Itachi's Sharingan and how to avoid it. Please do tell me how Minato's performance is not affected if he keeps looking at Itachi's legs.



Minato goes forward, rasengan's Itachi, Match over.



> Itachi is smarter.



Minato has hype of being the greatest genius to ever live. So no.



> You can't honestly believe Itachi allow his opponent to place kunai with special tags on them near himself.



I've done said they won't be near him like you're saying.



> As I've said Itachi can easily prevent Minato from setting up FTG kunai near him with his far superior kunai/shuriken skills.



Can, not will. He has no reason to even suspect the kunai. If anything he'll watch them and try to figure out what their purpose is and it'll be too late before he finds out.



> Itachi can erect Susano'o in an instant. How is Minato tagging him again?



Minato blitz's. That "instant" isn't close to Minato's speed.


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

Minato obviously crossed Konoha using Hiraishin.


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Just because he doesn't relie on summon doesn't mean it's not affecting his stat.
> 
> That's like saying Obito's Rinnegan doesn't increase his state since he doesn't focus on that



Obito's rinnegan was in play the whole time. It's the same as people saying MS Kakashi>Base Kakashi.

Do you actually think beginning of part 2 Naruto is Kage level? Part 1 Naruto in Strat's head.



Strategoob said:


> If Naruto had gone all out, and summoned Gamabunta, accessed say KN2, and made a few clones, then it'd be different.
> 
> It was a friendly match though.​



Kakashi told them to come at him with intent to kill, as in all out.



Hachibi said:


> Once when he dodged Ei's full body speed.
> Twice when he teleported to Ei's back
> 
> And like I said that was before Bee came.



Bee was there the whole time. He used it 3 times in a short span of time.



> He didn't stab him and that was a follow-up of the Rasengan, so not really a exchange.



He did stab him, and that whole thing was an exchange.



> Proof that he can blitz Itachi?



He crossed Konoha in 2 panels. He out ran an exploding tag that was already going off, after taking the blanket off Naruto and using FTG to change locations. He outsped fullspeed Ei.


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Obito's rinnegan was in play the whole time. It's the same as people saying MS Kakashi>Base Kakashi.



Except that by his own word he can't use it well, so not comparable to MS Kakashi who got hax like Kamui.



> Do you actually think beginning of part 2 Naruto is Kage level? Part 1 Naruto in Strat's head.



Considering Gamabunta's strenght and the Kyuubi's release of power it isn't far-reached to say that.



> Kakashi told them to come at him with intent to kill, as in all out.



Intent to kill doesn't mean you're out to kill someone. Just that you're using your power at their fullest. If he really mean it, he would have used Kamui or Kurama would come out.



> Bee was there the whole time. He used it 3 times in a short span of time.



You only said Ei and didn't specified Bee. But even then he was outnumbered, which isn't the case here.



> He did stab him, and that whole thing was an exchange.



He didn't stab him. He just made a Contract Seal to release Kyuubi form Obito.

Also Obito couldn't fight back, so I don't consider that a exchange.



> He crossed Konoha in 2 panels.



If he could cross Konoha in two panel without FTG, he wouldn't take as much time as he did to reach the Battlefield.



> He out ran an exploding tag that was already going off



Considering everyone competent can do that, that is nothing.



> He outsped fullspeed Ei.



With FTG. And beside, MS Sasuke reacted to V2 Ei and he's inferior to Itachi seeing how the later did better than EMS Sauce in the Kabuto fight.


----------



## SoleAccord (Jan 10, 2015)

This match-up aside, I really think the 'missed three kunai' point was reaching as Itachi still got the job done regardless. You can make the claim it was wasteful but I don't remember any point where Itachi has ever sweat 3 kunai.


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## Kyu (Jan 10, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Minato obviously crossed Konoha using Hiraishin.



_Hiraishin_ allows him to pop up right on or a couple feet away from the  tagged person/object.

Accomplished nothing seeing how Nardo's headbutt sent his ass flying

Kushina was under Kurama's massive paw and is held by her husband a considerable distance away(top-left panel), before the furry palm connected.

He either _shushined_ to rescue her in one go or teleported to Kushina, scooped her up, and then _shushined_ to the tree.


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Except that by his own word he can't use it well, so not comparable to MS Kakashi who got hax like Kamui.



No, he couldn't make the paths use the jutsu because of chakra limits. He still had the jutsu and could use them (6 paths jutsu).



> Considering Gamabunta's strenght and the Kyuubi's release of power it isn't far-reached to say that.



What the fuck is the deal? Really. I want to know who the fuck you got on you're low kage tier list because that's fucking insane. Beginning of part 2 Naruto would get slaughtered by kages.



> Intent to kill doesn't mean you're out to kill someone. Just that you're using your power at their fullest. If he really mean it, he would have used Kamui or Kurama would come out.



Intent to kill...intending to kill...not meaning trying to kill...Thinking Naruto is kage level was bad enough and then you say that. 



> You only said Ei and didn't specified Bee. But even then he was outnumbered, which isn't the case here.



I meant the skirmish there which included Bee.



> He didn't stab him. He just made a Contract Seal to release Kyuubi form Obito.



Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking.



> Also Obito couldn't fight back, so I don't consider that a exchange.



Couldn't fight back because Minato was beating his ass LOL WTF.



> If he could cross Konoha in two panel without FTG, he wouldn't take as much time as he did to reach the Battlefield.



He got there before everyone and set up tags around the battlefield in an instant. There is no sign of FTG there and everytime he teleported there we saw the tags and kunai's to show us how he teleported there. We never got that there.



> Considering everyone competent can do that, that is nothing.



Show me one. They were already blowing up mind you.



> With FTG. And beside, MS Sasuke reacted to V2 Ei and he's inferior to Itachi seeing how the later did better than EMS Sauce in the Kabuto fight.



He physically reacted as he turned around and threw a kunai behind Ei before teleporting. Sasuke instinctively put up enton and Ei stopped behind him and gave him time to. he didn't rush forward and punch him in the face like against Minato. He circled behind him, stopped, Sasuke put Enton up, Raikage called him a bitch and karate chopped him. 

Itachi poorly reacted to Kabuto while Sasuke didn't.


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## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

Kyu said:


> _Hiraishin_ allows him to pop up right on or a couple feet away from the  tagged person/object.
> 
> Accomplished nothing seeing how Nardo's headbutt sent his ass flying
> 
> ...



Considering how far form them Minato was, I believe the later to make more sense, and to dodge the claw at the same time considering how good Minato's reflex are (dodging Kamui, Ei's V2)


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

SoleAccord said:


> This match-up aside, I really think the 'missed three kunai' point was reaching as Itachi still got the job done regardless. You can make the claim it was wasteful but I don't remember any point where Itachi has ever sweat 3 kunai.



Missing 3 kunai on a stationary target is fucking pathetic and should be ridiculed as much as his kunai skills get hyped.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 10, 2015)

LOOL at minato not having the speed feats to blitz from 15m. Are you guys hearing yourselves, Minato has blitzed more than 5 times the distance of 15m:
- 
Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking.
- 
Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking.
- 
Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking.
- 
Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking. 
- 
Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking.
- 
Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking.
- 
Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking.

Too much speed o_O and people say he isn't one of the fastest without ftg. No one has a faster base speed than he does.


Whoever said early shippuden Naruto is mid kage tier needs to never log in and post again. That was just embarrassing to read.

Saying Minato cant spam ftg smh... He spammed it like 50 times to wipe out 50 enemies in the blink of an eye:

Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking..


----------



## Ghost (Jan 10, 2015)

^ jesus christ


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> No, he couldn't make the paths use the jutsu because of chakra limits. He still had the jutsu and could use them (6 paths jutsu).



Yeah,no.




> What the fuck is the deal? Really. I want to know who the fuck you got on you're low kage tier list because that's fucking insane. Beginning of part 2 Naruto would get slaughtered by kages.



Naruto won't get killed by a low-kage like Mei before Kyuubi kick in.



> Intent to kill...intending to kill...not meaning trying to kill...Thinking Naruto is kage level was bad enough and then you say that.



Because emotion are a bitch? Because Naruto could have used Odama Rasengan like Kakashi could have used Kamui.



> I meant the skirmish there which included Bee.



Then, like I said, that was because he was outnumbered, which isn't the case here.



> Nah, he didn't fucking stab him. He just put a kunai to him and blood was coming off of it, what the fuck was I thinking.



Nevermind then



> Couldn't fight back because Minato was beating his ass LOL WTF.



That and the Rasengan, which is why I call it a follow-up.



> He got there before everyone and set up tags around the battlefield in an instant. There is no sign of FTG there and everytime he teleported there we saw the tags and kunai's to show us how he teleported there. We never got that there.



I don't really understand :sanji



> Show me one. They were already blowing up mind you.



Kakashi and Kurenai dodging Itachi's Explosive Clone.



> He physically reacted as he turned around and threw a kunai behind Ei before teleporting.



Must be why he was almost touched by Ei.



> Sasuke instinctively put up enton and Ei stopped behind him and gave him time to. he didn't rush forward and punch him in the face like against Minato. He circled behind him, stopped, Sasuke put Enton up, Raikage called him a bitch and karate chopped him.



Ei circled around Sasuke because he was dodging Amaterasu. And he also lost a arm in the process.

Not to mention Sasuke could turn his Enton into spike before Ei could finish his fall



> Itachi poorly reacted to Kabuto while Sasuke didn't.



How so?


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Yeah,no.



Obito explicitly said,"I didn't have both and I could still do this much." So yes, it was hard for him to control but he still used it several times. Using the Gedo, 6 paths jutsu, rinne tensei, so yes he could use it and did.



> Naruto won't get killed by a low-kage like Mei before Kyuubi kick in.



BULLSHIT. Mei uses lava and fucks him up. 100 bunshin, her suitons fuck them up. Naruto has no reason to use Kurama against her. He has no anger there.



> Because emotion are a bitch? Because Naruto could have used Odama Rasengan like Kakashi could have used Kamui.



And 90% of the fight was off panel.



> Then, like I said, that was because he was outnumbered, which isn't the case here.



Everytime Minato's fought he used FTG like it was nothing. He has always spammed it.



> That and the Rasengan, which is why I call it a follow-up.



It's still part of the exchange. Minato's going to greater lengths to end the fight there then landing a hit and stopping like most retards do.



> I don't really understand :sanji



What were you talking about.



> Kakashi and Kurenai dodging Itachi's Explosive Clone.



They didn't dodge it. Kakashi blocked Kurenai from it and took damage.



> Must be why he was almost touched by Ei.



He took his time and countered him perfectly. He still physically reacted by fully turning around and throwing (which requires moving) a kunai behind Ei. 



> Ei circled around Sasuke because he was dodging Amaterasu. And he also lost a arm in the process.



Ei didn't charge forward though which would've made it quicker. Going around takes longer than going forward. Don't know what losing an arm has to do with his speed.



> Not to mention Sasuke could turn his Enton into spike before Ei could finish his fall



Gravity doesn't work the way you think. Ei falling isn't v2 speed.



> How so?



Itachi wrongly reacted to protect Sasuke from Muki tensei while Sasuke correctly reacted. Nothing was going for Sasuke hence why he didn't try to protect himself while Itachi left himself open trying to protect Sasuke despite earlier having a conversation about how Kabuto wasn't going to hurt Sasuke.


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## Patrick (Jan 10, 2015)

This has been done to death but I'll give the same answer I give everytime. They are very close in power but Minato slightly edges out.

Oh and on the off-topic thing on early Part 2 Naruto, he's Mid Jounin at best in Base. High Jounin in KN3, which he could still control and Low Kage in KN4 if that also counts.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 10, 2015)

Itachi never poorly reacted to SM Kabuto in terms of CQC.

 He literally managed to bushin feint him, matched him head on, cut his horn off and along w/ the fact that he blocked Kabuto with Partial Susanoo despite being affected by Kabuto's White Rage technique.

 Those are poor reactions because?


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## IchLiebe (Jan 10, 2015)

Kabuto dodged Itachi's attack, he just forgot that he had horns, and the second time he noted that the horn was already cut off, meaning that he was dodging that attack.


----------



## Rinnegan Zetsu (Jan 10, 2015)

You kinda crippled Itachi by taking away his knowledge. However, with MS, Itachi easily deciphers everything he needs to know about Minato within a couple of glances. Itachi forms a shadow clone before Minato can even throw his kunai. At this point, Minato teleports to a clone of Itachi, attacks it, and then is attacked from behind by Itachi. Minato will counter this with them doing a kunai clash, and Itachi will place Minato in Izanami. Game Over. Minato is good, I'll give him that, but Itachi is GOD.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 11, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Missing 3 kunai on a stationary target is fucking pathetic and should be ridiculed as much as his kunai skills get hyped.



It would be different if he missed entirely and didn't get the job done; what's three kunai to a defeated Rinnegan user in one quick play? Itachi's skills shouldn't be downplayed over something like that, but you seem pretty determined to do so to further your own argument, so I guess do what you have to do. End of the day Itachi got the job done, no ones remembering those three kunai when Nagato was still defeated thirty seconds afterwards. 

Say he loses, but 'no difficulty'? Yeah that's a little too much discrediting for someone who was viewed as a prodigy and genius in his own generation. I'm not gonna try to convince you, I think you're too against Itachi to try, but no difficulty? Come on man, you gotta know deep down that can't be true. The odds aren't THAT against him, Scenario 1 could arguably be on the Low spectrum. Saying 'no difficulty' is a pretty big call to make, I think you're not giving Itachi enough credit out of some kind of resentment for his abilities as a shinobi. 

Like I said, I won't convince you, but by no means can this be 'no difficulty' for anyone. They're both recognized as incredibly powerful combatants, feared by most they've encountered. If they're ever beaten with 'no difficulty' then someone had to stack the odds against them immensely. This fight isn't as simple as people want to make it considering both sides capabilities and feats, not to mention the reputation and display. At least a Mid, at LEAST a Mid. Thread creator obviously gave Minato more favor, but come now...

EDIT - I just noticed your location and suddenly it all makes sense now why Itachi is 'no difficulty' no matter what. Never mind then.


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## sabre320 (Jan 11, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> He didn't spam FTG against Juubito and against Juudara.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



um did you forget the ninja war minato ended where he gave his squad kunai to spam hence hirashin

ma and pa genjutsu fodder ya...if they stick on his shoulders he can stay out of eye contact range...and they can still use frog call and frog song..

well well...minatos a sage with greater proficiency then jirayia who  summoned ma and pa...

naruto never summoned ma and pa so he cant summon them;/ he has the contract is a sage been to toad mountain pa knows him and was taught senjutsu fil in the blanks mate....written in the databook he can summon all frogs and in an interview by kishi

summoning ma and pa does not take  alot of time jirayias preparation for sage mode took time....itachi has literally no attack to pressure minato he has much faster shunshin feats blitzing kyuubi from across konoha so itachi is not closing the distance ....he has ftg and can make clones to spread markings from there on out he can dodge anything itachi throws at him ...so tell me again why wouldnt it be practical?


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## Hachibi (Jan 11, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> um did you forget the ninja war minato ended where he gave his squad kunai to spam hence hirashin



I already say that spamming Hiraishin won't win him the match unless he's doing it as a finisher.



> ma and pa genjutsu fodder ya...if they stick on his shoulders he can stay out of eye contact range...and they can still use frog call and frog song..



I wasn't specially talking about Ma and Pa. Even then, tachi can use other way to genjutsu people (finger genjutsu).



> well well...minatos a sage with greater proficiency then jirayia who  summoned ma and pa...



He may be a perfect Sage but his Sage Mode doesn't last long and he take too much time to enter it. He won't have the time to do so. Same for summoning Ma and Pa.



> naruto never summoned ma and pa so he cant summon them;/ he has the contract is a sage been to toad mountain pa knows him and was taught senjutsu fil in the blanks mate....written in the databook he can summon all frogs and in an interview by kishi



Even then, summoning Ma and Pa took too much time. Also, they can't fuse with him because of Kyuubi.



> summoning ma and pa does not take  alot of time jirayias preparation for sage mode took time



Nope, he said to the Toad that he summoned to buy time for him to summon the Elder Toad, since he can't go Sage Mode alone



> ....itachi has literally no attack to pressure minato



Genjutsu, Susanoo, Yasaka...



> he has much faster shunshin feats blitzing kyuubi from across konoha



Minato never blitzed the Kyuubi.



> so itachi is not closing the distance



Considering his feats against SM Kabuto, yes he can.



> ....he has ftg



Balanced by the thread Tsukuyomi pose in battle.



> and can make clones to spread markings



Good thing Itachi can create clone too.



> from there on out he can dodge anything itachi throws at him ...



Except he can't do that forever.



> so tell me again why wouldnt it be practical?



Because staying in the defensive won't win him the battle?


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## IchLiebe (Jan 11, 2015)

SoleAccord said:


> It would be different if he missed entirely and didn't get the job done; what's three kunai to a defeated Rinnegan user in one quick play? Itachi's skills shouldn't be downplayed over something like that, but you seem pretty determined to do so to further your own argument, so I guess do what you have to do. End of the day Itachi got the job done, no ones remembering those three kunai when Nagato was still defeated thirty seconds afterwards.



Missing targets does mean something when everyone hypes up his kunai throwing skills. It shows he's not as good as they think. We can't just ignore what it's the manga.



> Say he loses, but 'no difficulty'? Yeah that's a little too much discrediting for someone who was viewed as a prodigy and genius in his own generation. I'm not gonna try to convince you, I think you're too against Itachi to try, but no difficulty? Come on man, you gotta know deep down that can't be true. The odds aren't THAT against him, Scenario 1 could arguably be on the Low spectrum. Saying 'no difficulty' is a pretty big call to make, I think you're not giving Itachi enough credit out of some kind of resentment for his abilities as a shinobi.
> 
> Like I said, I won't convince you, but by no means can this be 'no difficulty' for anyone. They're both recognized as incredibly powerful combatants, feared by most they've encountered. If they're ever beaten with 'no difficulty' then someone had to stack the odds against them immensely. This fight isn't as simple as people want to make it considering both sides capabilities and feats, not to mention the reputation and display. At least a Mid, at LEAST a Mid. Thread creator obviously gave Minato more favor, but come now...
> 
> EDIT - I just noticed your location and suddenly it all makes sense now why Itachi is 'no difficulty' no matter what. Never mind then.



Don't take the "no difficulty" seriously. But it wouldn't be much. It ends in their first skirmish.



Hachibi said:


> I wasn't specially talking about Ma and Pa. Even then, tachi can use other way to genjutsu people (finger genjutsu).



Minato's knowledge is genjutsu and how to avoid it. That includes finger *genjutsu*.



> Even then, summoning Ma and Pa took too much time. Also, they can't fuse with him because of Kyuubi.



I believe it only took so long because he was summoning them already fused to him. And alive Minato does not have Kurama so no.



> Nope, he said to the Toad that he summoned to buy time for him to summon the Elder Toad, since he can't go Sage Mode alone



No one has had to prep a summon. More chakra you put into it the bigger summon you can use. It was basically he had to take time to prep the fusion jutsu.



> Genjutsu, Susanoo, Yasaka...



Minato has knowledge on how to avoid genjutsu, too fast for susanoo and yasaka. If worse comes to worse than he uses S/T barrier and Itachi's fucked.



> Minato never blitzed the Kyuubi.



He blitzed it from across the village before it could prepare a bijuu bomb. And then again when he swooped in, grabbed Kushina, and got out of the way before Kurama could step on her.



> Considering his feats against SM Kabuto, yes he can.



Scans that put him anywhere close to Minato in speed.



> Balanced by the thread Tsukuyomi pose in battle.



Minato gets full knowledge on how to avoid genjutsu, it's a non factor here.



> Good thing Itachi can create clone too.



Quality goes to Minato.



> Except he can't do that forever.



Yep, in his base speed he's that much faster.



> Because staying in the defensive won't win him the battle?



Minato tends to attack first and hit hard. Itachi gets charged, tagged, then FTG lvl 2 GG.


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## Hachibi (Jan 11, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Minato's knowledge is genjutsu and how to avoid it. That includes finger *genjutsu*.



Having knowledge on something doesn't make you immune to it.



> I believe it only took so long because he was summoning them already fused to him. And alive Minato does not have Kurama so no.



What would that change?

Also I was talking about Naruto in the Kurama part.



> No one has had to prep a summon. More chakra you put into it the bigger summon you can use. It was basically he had to take time to prep the fusion jutsu.



This isn't completely true. You need to have enough chakra control. That's why Naruto couldn't summon shit during the first time he tried.



> Minato has knowledge on how to avoid genjutsu,



Doesn't make him immune.



> too fast for susanoo and yasaka.



Considering Itachi managed to rip off Nagato's Asura Path Arm, I'm not so sure.



> If worse comes to worse than he uses S/T barrier and Itachi's fucked.



S/T barrier isn't a offensive jutsu.



> He blitzed it from across the village before it could prepare a bijuu bomb.



Kurama didn't notice him the first time. The second time it was pinned down.



> And then again when he swooped in, grabbed Kushina, and got out of the way before Kurama could step on her.



Not sure how that's considered blitzing.



> Scans that put him anywhere close to Minato in speed.



Ripping Nagato's arm before he could react, intercepting SM Kabuto multiple times.



> Minato gets full knowledge on how to avoid genjutsu, it's a non factor here.



Tsunade know everything about Mokuton yet that didn't stop her and the rest of the Gokage to be overwhelmed by it. So like I said: knowledge=/=immune.



> Quality goes to Minato.



How so?



> Yep, in his base speed he's that much faster.



Much faster than KCM Naruto.



> Minato tends to attack first and hit hard. Itachi gets charged, tagged, then FTG lvl 2 GG.



Except against Ei, Obito, Juubito. The only time he did it was against Juudara.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 11, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Having knowledge on something doesn't make you immune to it.



Someone tells you to do "this" to avoid "that" and you can then avoid it. Minato is one of, if not the smartest people in the manga. He most certainly will make use of that knowledge.



> What would that change?
> 
> Also I was talking about Naruto in the Kurama part.



Summoning has never shown to take prep. Going into SM has. The reason it took so long is because he was doing the fusion jutsu. That's why when Ma/Pa was summoned he was instantly in SM and didn't need to take time for them to gather nature energy.



> This isn't completely true. You need to have enough chakra control. That's why Naruto couldn't summon shit during the first time he tried.



Chakra control only goes so far. There's only so good you can get and it's not hard for ninja to get there. Beginning of Part 1 Sakura had perfect chakra control. Naruto at that point had great chakra control. Summoning Gamabunta takes a lot more chakra than Gamakichi.



> Doesn't make him immune.



Damn near it.



> Considering Itachi managed to rip off Nagato's Asura Path Arm, I'm not so sure.



And? You do know Kabuto was paying no attention to Itachi and Itachi did a surprise attack. Has nothing to do with his speed.



> S/T barrier isn't a offensive jutsu.



Itachi uses susanoo, Minato uses S/T barrier, susanoo's gone, Itachi's fucked.



> Kurama didn't notice him the first time. The second time it was pinned down.



What? Minato pinned him down. He shunshin'd across the village and used food cart destroyer before he could prepare bijuu bomb.



> Not sure how that's considered blitzing.



He got in and out before Kurama could do anything. Not really a blitz, but a better speed feat than Itachi's got.



> Ripping Nagato's arm before he could react, intercepting SM Kabuto multiple times.



Surprise attack against Nagato. Kabuto blitzed him and cut him in half. The shit where they ran at each other and blocked each other doesn't make Itachi near Minato. Look at Naruto vs Sasuke part 1. They had similar clashes yet Sasuke was far faster.



> Tsunade know everything about Mokuton yet that didn't stop her and the rest of the Gokage to be overwhelmed by it. So like I said: knowledge=/=immune.



None of them where on Madara's level. He was far superior to them and forced them into flower world. Oonoki still countered it. And Madara said he was the only person who could ever counter mokuton bunshin. Minato is faster, smarter, and has the tools necessary to counter genjutsu.



> How so?



Minato's stronger, faster, more durable, better stamina, etc.



> Much faster than KCM Naruto.



KCM Naruto never used shunshin against Itachi. That was basically base Naruto, just more durable and stronger attacks. His speed was nothing special there. Itachi couldn't handle KCM Naruto's full speed or anything close. He's not handling Minato's shunshin but I'll give you benefit of the doubt. Say he block Minato's first attack when he comes it, Itachi's getting tagged just like everyone. Then what? Itachi's fucked.



> Except against Ei, Obito, Juubito. The only time he did it was against Juudara.



Minato attacked Obito and Juubito first. Against Ei he had heard that he was fast and wanted to see how fast.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 11, 2015)

The knowledge of Itachi is centered around the Sharingan, Minato has no way of knowing of the finger genjutsu. Fair, considering Itachi is not allowed any information whatsoever other than Minato's moniker of 'yellow flash'. Unless OP ninja edits again to give Minato the advantage of knowing Itachi's genjutsu prowess, no, there is no magically knowing about the finger technique.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 11, 2015)

OP needs to quit editing then. It did state he knew about Itachi's genjutsu and how to avoid it. Not much changes though. Minato charges in, at worse tags Itachi, then he can do anything to finish it.


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## Hachibi (Jan 11, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Someone tells you to do "this" to avoid "that" and you can then avoid it. Minato is one of, if not the smartest people in the manga. He most certainly will make use of that knowledge.



It still doesn't make you immune form it.



> Summoning has never shown to take prep. Going into SM has. The reason it took so long is because he was doing the fusion jutsu. That's why when Ma/Pa was summoned he was instantly in SM and didn't need to take time for them to gather nature energy.



Even if it was true, what good would the Toad be in the long run since they can get genned?



> Chakra control only goes so far. There's only so good you can get and it's not hard for ninja to get there. Beginning of Part 1 Sakura had perfect chakra control. Naruto at that point had great chakra control. Summoning Gamabunta takes a lot more chakra than Gamakichi.



Naruto didn't summon Gamakichi on his first try...



> Damn near it.



Just like Obito was immune to Hiraishin?



> And? You do know Kabuto was paying no attention to Itachi and Itachi did a surprise attack. Has nothing to do with his speed.



Except both Kabuto and Nagato are sensor.



> Itachi uses susanoo, Minato uses S/T barrier, susanoo's gone, Itachi's fucked.



S/T Barrier doesn't work that way. It



> What? Minato pinned him down. He shunshin'd across the village and used food cart destroyer before he could prepare bijuu bomb.



Wrong. Kurama was already preparing it.



> He got in and out before Kurama could do anything. Not really a blitz, but a better speed feat than Itachi's got.



Kurama didn't anything because it _was_ already doing something. And not sure if its better than Itachi since SM Naruto dodged that too  and Itachi fought on par with KCM Naruto and Bee.



> Surprise attack against Nagato.



Nagato is a sensor.



> Kabuto blitzed him and cut him in half.



By catching him off guard in a moment where:
-Itachi intentionnally lowered his guard
-Kabuto hided in Oro's mouth.



> The shit where they ran at each other and blocked each other doesn't make Itachi near Minato.



I wasn't talking only about that.



> Look at Naruto vs Sasuke part 1. They had similar clashes yet Sasuke was far faster.



Sasuke wasn't faster than Naruto. He had precognition on his side.



> None of them where on Madara's level. He was far superior to them and forced them into flower world. Oonoki still countered it. And Madara said he was the only person who could ever counter mokuton bunshin. Minato is faster,* smarter,* and has the tools necessary to counter genjutsu


.

That was just a exemple. Also the bolded is lolworthy considering Itachi had Hokage-level wisdom at age 7.




> Minato's *stronger*, faster, *more durable*, better stamina, etc.



The bolded are false since it Minato didn't show being physically superior to Itachi.



> KCM Naruto never used shunshin against Itachi. That was basically base Naruto, just more durable and stronger attacks. His speed was nothing special there.



Yes, sure. Because he didn't block V1 Ei's strike, dealt easily with Edo Jin when they weren't ganging him up and could handle the Tenpeichi. Also reacted to Nagato's opening.



> Itachi couldn't handle KCM Naruto's full speed or anything close.



They aren't proof for that on both side.



> He's not handling Minato's shunshin but I'll give you benefit of the doubt. Say he block Minato's first attack when he comes it, Itachi's getting tagged just like everyone. Then what? Itachi's fucked.



Except that Itachi doesn't always begin the fight by CQC. The only time he did that was against KCM Naruto, but he was controlled by Kabuto so it doesn't count.



> Minato attacked Obito and Juubito first.



No he didn't. Obito technically started the fight by throwing Naruto, but the one on one began by Obito trying to grab Minato.

As for Juubito, it was Juubito that attacked them first after he dealt with Hiruzen.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 11, 2015)

1. When Obito walked up behind Minato, Minato instantly turned and put a kunai through his head.
2. Part 1 Sasuke was always faster than Naruto. Saying he's not is saying Rock Lee isn't.
3. Tell someone how to counter something and if they have the tools to counter it then they can and will.
4. Kabuto directly stated the only reason Itachi was successful was because he forgot about him. Being a sensor means shit unless you actively sense.
5. KCM Naruto at fullspeed fucking destroys Itachi.


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## Hachibi (Jan 11, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> 1. When Obito walked up behind Minato, Minato instantly turned and put a kunai through his head.



He countered Obito's attempt to grab him.



> 2. Part 1 Sasuke was always faster than Naruto. Saying he's not is saying Rock Lee isn't.



Except when KN1 was wrecking him.



> 3. Tell someone how to counter something and if they have the tools to counter it then they can and will.



Just like Kabuto and we all know what happened.



> 4. Kabuto directly stated the only reason Itachi was successful was because he forgot about him. Being a sensor means shit unless you actively sense.



Except that Kabuto was using sensing the whole fight.



> 5. KCM Naruto at fullspeed fucking destroys Itachi.



>Implying KCM Naruto's speed will make him win.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 11, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> He countered Obito's attempt to grab him.



As soon as they teleported to the other battlefield, Minato threw a kunai through his skull. He attacks first 99% of the time, and he attacks continuously when he does. He doesn't do an attack, he does combo's.



> Except when KN1 was wrecking him.



Because KN1's cloak wasn't able to be predicted with sharingan. Naruto still can't land any attack with his fist.



> Just like Kabuto and we all know what happened.



You mean how Itachi just happened to have the perfect genjutsu against the man immune to genjutsu. Yeah, that was plot out the ass. Here Izanami is included in genjutsu aka Minato's knows how to avoid it.



> Except that Kabuto was using sensing the whole fight.



Proof? Please start posting some scans to support this. It is widely known that Kabuto himself said he forgot about Itachi and wasn't paying him any attention. 



> >Implying KCM Naruto's speed will make him win.



Yes, Naruto blitz's like he did to Kisame and Itachi eats a rasengan and dies.


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## JuicyG (Jan 11, 2015)

ForzaRoma said:


> Round 2 wins.Mnato isnt breaking Susanoo with those puny Rasengans of his.Minato cant avoid amaterasu if he constantly has to avoid looking at Itachi either.




Minato doesnt have to worry about looking at Itachi, he is a sensor after all, and a damn good one at that. Minato doesn't have to bust the susasno, warping it away works just fine. Underestimating Minato is never healthy for a debate


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## Sadgoob (Jan 11, 2015)

Itachi's shown that he can hide himself from sensors when he clone feinted Sage Kabuto.​


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## JuicyG (Jan 12, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Itachi's shown that he can hide himself from sensors when he clone feinted Sage Kabuto.​




Doesn't necessarily mean that he becomes undetectable, I've always said that sensing is a passive feat that applies to everyone who calls themselves a sensor. Just like SM Naruto being unaware of a few situations that occurred in his fight with Pain that would otherwise have been sensed by any other sensor. The instance im speaking of was when Naraka path was resurrecting Asura/Preta Path (Cant recall) behind a cloud of smoke, any sensor would have realized that new presence which was unmasked. 

Moving forward, even if Itachi could or is able to clone feint every sensor and thus become undetectable, it doesn't change much. Because outside of a Susano, Itachi is pretty much toast to Minato's Hirashin and shushin speed. The conditions laid out for this fight was that Minato > Itachi in battle intel.


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## Hachibi (Jan 12, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> As soon as they teleported to the other battlefield, Minato threw a kunai through his skull. He attacks first 99% of the time, and he attacks continuously when he does. He doesn't do an attack, he does combo's.



Considering the fight already strated, he didn't attack first.



> Because KN1's cloak wasn't able to be predicted with sharingan. Naruto still can't land any attack with his fist.



That wasn't the only time he did it. Naruto managed to hit Sasuke during KN0.



> You mean how Itachi just happened to have the perfect genjutsu against the man immune to genjutsu. Yeah, that was plot out the ass.



Kabuto wasn't immune to genjutsu. He only blocked his vision.



> Here Izanami is included in genjutsu aka Minato's knows how to avoid it.



Except that knowing _how_ doesn't mean he _will_. That happened alot in this Manga.



> Proof? Please start posting some scans to support this. It is widely known that Kabuto himself said he forgot about Itachi and wasn't paying him any attention.





Also, yes he did. He praised multiple time Itachi during the fight.



> Yes, Naruto blitz's like he did to Kisame and Itachi eats a rasengan and dies.



If Naruto blitz like he did to Kisame he's breaking his leg.


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## Garcher (Jan 12, 2015)

fuck the haters. Itachi solos :ignoramus


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## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

So basically the arguments being presented here are itachi can catch minato in genjutsu when minato has full knowledge when obito could not do so and itachi could not catch kcm naruto in genjutsu...he catches minato in genjutsu because he is itachi...keep in mind obito used genjutsu against kakashi and was able to genjutsu a perfect jinchuriki a feat above itachi...

obito couldnt get minato under genjutsu from this position..
it did nothing to him

and if struck by a lesser genjutsu minato can simply teleport out to a marker ... and minatos a sensor so he can sense itachi building chakra to use amaterasu and thats itachis fastest attack..

hard to genjutsu someone you would have difficulty tracking. madara with 5 clones had to hold Ei down to genjutsu him. Ei is slower than minato and his movements are far more predictable. With full knowledge minato will know to fight with a clone as well to discourage itachi from using genjutsu. even if he does the clone can simply swap with the oringinal or hirashin the original to safety


Then we have the argument that minato cannot keep using ftg to dodge attacks and exhaust itachi because its ooc for minato to spam ftg....

And then there is the blatant denial of minatos speed feats...and itachi is being portrayed as a equal to minato in speed and reactions...

apparently sm kabuto is the benchmark in speed...

Now lets get down to the real arguments here....minato has complete knowledge ...he has much better reserves then itachi...he can make kagebunshin and mark them with ftg...the kage bunshins are immune to genjutsu and spread markings around itachi...

minato can litter the battlefield around itachi with kunai faster then v2 ei can capitalize..
it did nothing to him

from there on out minato and his kagebunshin constantly ftg around itachi and pressure him to stay in sussano...staying outside sussano is a death sentence as he gets marked by either minato or the clones....from there on out itachi has absolutely no attacks that can touch minato literally zero.....while minato can keep his distance out of range yet teleport in to exploit an opening....

Minatos kagebunshin are superior to itachis karasu bunshins and can use ftg swap...exploding clones are useless as minato can outrun an explosion from point blank while its midway....

Amaterasu is casually trolled as in canon minato can teleport away even on contact ala enton rasenshuriken..

Itachi has very low reserves and any ms jutsu put a signifgant toll on him he can cast amaterasu twice while maintaing sussano for 5 min thats pretty much his limit ...

Minato can comfortabely outlast itachi....

Not to mention he can simply use the other stratedgy of teleporting out while his kagebunshin pressure he can summon ma and pa contrary to some peoples misconception summoning ma and pa does not take alot of time...jirayia needed alot of time to prep sage mode...ma and pa jump on minatos shoulders whileat distance minato is immune to all of itachis assaults and manover around with ftg ma and pa use either frog song or frog call itachis defenseless...


Now lets get to speed feats...

Minato was able to troll v2 ei to such an extent that before raikage had moved an inch minato teleported to the tree turned around teleported to the kunai that was mid air got into striking position and would have struck ei before he had any idea wth happened and yet people are using edo itachis feats against sm kabuto as some kind of benchmark even though itachi was blitzd in half from a surprise attack from kabuto,...

Minato likes to spam markings and almost always likes to place marking in a location faraway to teleport attacks and to recouperate
it did nothing to him
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He placed a marking hundreds of miles into the sea considering the size of juubidams blast
through his shunshin placed markings for the hokage barrier and teleported the juubidama while no one even registered his presence all the while a speedster like tobirama didnt even make it to the battle quite a bit later even though they did none of the aforementioned tasks....this was in base

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he can shunshin fatser then someone like obito can strike....

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he can outrun explosions mid way..

he can shunshin from across konoha to save kushina before kurama can strike same kurama who struck sm naruto before he could react...
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he blitzed the same kurama again from across konoha with shunshin and used food cart destroyer it before it could react..
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Now onto minatos reaction and kunai throwing speed...
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minato threw a kunai faster then kakashi could activate kamui..then he managed to get into sage mode  form a rasengan and teleport next to madara before kamui warp had even begun....
this is the same kakashi who could warp gedo mazo mid summon and earned praise from sm madara....

Now lets go to perhaps his most impressive speed feat...here we have madara who can use guodama in close range so fast that obito cannot kamui to escape..
obito and kakashi had to combine their kamui speed and still barely managed to evade the guodama...
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kakashi alone could kamui bm naruto so fast that obito with his mankegyo could not percieve it...

yet we have minato here teleporting in at literally point blank catching the kunai in his mouth letting the same  guodama touch him and ftg out before even 8th gate gai could move an inch..

Now please for the love of god please enlighten me what does itachi have that is even remotely comparable in the reaction and speed realm how the heck is he reacting to minato and catching minato with any attacks? this is the same guy who could not react to a surprise attack from sm kabuto.....
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## Arles Celes (Jan 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Now lets go to perhaps his most impressive speed feat...here we have madara who can use guodama in close range so fast that obito cannot kamui to escape..
> obito and kakashi had to combine their kamui speed and still barely managed to evade the guodama...
> Link removed
> kakashi alone could kamui bm naruto so fast that obito with his mankegyo could not percieve it...
> ...



If that is a most impressive feat then Guy is hyped immensely as he reacted to that speed and saved Kakashi from Madara's attack.

Link removed

And without even the 7th Gate. Dat Guy.


Though yeah, Itachi probably loses but he managed to catch up in genjutsu everyone he ever fought(so it would be hardly surpising if he caught Minato in it at least once) and surprised with his speed Bee who was capable of both reacting and overwhelming V2 Ei. 
Link removed

In part 1 he was overwhelming three experienced jounins before he even activated MS and fought always without killing intent.

Poor Itachi got low chakra reserves unfortunately.


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## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> If that is a most impressive feat then Guy is hyped immensely as he reacted to that speed and saved Kakashi from Madara's attack.
> 
> Link removed
> 
> ...



Ahan so u basically ignored that he came in at point blank range caught the kunai in his mouth made contact with the guodama and teleported out before 8th gate gai had even twitched dat minato even without bm


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## Arles Celes (Jan 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Ahan so u basically ignored that he came in at point blank range caught the kunai in his mouth made contact with the guodama and teleported out before 8th gate gai had even twitched dat minato even without bm



Lee deserves some credit too as with just 6 Gates he reacted to both 8Th Gate Guy and Madara's gudoudamas throwing a kunai between with perfect timing as Minato stated.

And he smacks meteors in the movie

Minato is a cool dude in any case. But he did not caught the kunai in his mouth as he already got another one there before he teleported. Link removed

I wonder why Minato carried that kunai in his mouth like that. Naruto did too after activating Six Path Senjutsu and nothing happened. Weird.


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## Euraj (Jan 12, 2015)

Haha. This topic hasn't changed since I joined here. There is not going to be a curbstomp, and Minato can't "just avoid" Itachi's eyes any more than Itachi can't "just avoid" Minato's kunai. Both of those things respectively are their main weapons and as we've seen when Itachi fought Kakashi or when Minato fought A, they have ways to get their opponent into vulnerable positions where they can use those weapons if they don't just willingly walk into them. 

With that being said, the fight will still be quick, just like Minato vs. Obito, because neither one of them have ways to "come back" from the other's main weapon. Just like Kamui would have ended Minato immediately and Hiraishin actually did end Obito in one go, a hit from Genjutsu would end Minato and Itachi is not coming back from a Rasengan to the cranium. 

Scenario 1 is a handover to Minato. If he doesn't even try to go in close, Itachi would kill himself after defending for long enough. Second scenario could go either way, but I'd say Minato/Itachi 55-60/40-45


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## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Lee deserves some credit too as with just 6 Gates he reacted to both 8Th Gate Guy and Madara's gudoudamas throwing a kunai between with perfect timing as Minato stated.
> 
> And he smacks meteors in the movie
> 
> ...



Cant wait to see lee in the movie dat scene was badass

actually he did catch the kunai before the kunai is thrown he is shouting keep going no matter what gai! no kunai after kunai is thrown he teleports in and catches it in his mouth..he had no arms to catch it with..


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jan 12, 2015)

Minato only defeats the sick, dying version of Itachi that's nearly blind.

Itachi is much smarter than Minato and doesn't need knowledge to figure out his linear techniques upon seeing them. Any of Minato's projectiles get deflected, while Itachi switches out with Bunshin that are capable of slipping through Sage Kabuto's senses. Considering 3-tomoe Sharingan can't even track his seals, it is very doubtful that Yondaime's eyes can see through anything quick enough. From the start, Minato is going to be at the disadvantage with the kind of knowledge he's given; he'll be trying to avoid Itachi's eyesight, fighting with a method that's unconventional for him.

The likelihood of Itachi catching Minato with Genjutsu/MS is much higher than Yondaime tagging him with Hiraishin. From what we've seen, Minato's speed in base isn't quite enough to blitz someone like Itachi, and he might not even attempt that with the knowledge he is given. If Minato decides to use Hiraishin early on and fails to tag Itachi's body or make significant damage, he's got no chance of winning this match-up. Once Itachi sees Hiraishin in action, he will quickly decipher how it works and outperform his opponent from there. 

Surprise factor is the only thing Minato has going for him... He's also got a shot with Shiki Fuujin, but I'm not sure if he'd be able to use it before Itachi kills him.


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## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Minato only defeats the sick, dying version of Itachi that's nearly blind.
> 
> Itachi is much smarter than Minato and doesn't need knowledge to figure out his linear techniques upon seeing them. Any of Minato's projectiles get deflected, while Itachi switches out with Bunshin that are capable of slipping through Sage Kabuto's senses. Considering 3-tomoe Sharingan can't even track his seals, it is very doubtful that Yondaime's eyes can see through anything quick enough. From the start, Minato is going to be at the disadvantage with the kind of knowledge he's given; he'll be trying to avoid Itachi's eyesight, fighting with a method that's unconventional for him.
> 
> ...



Ah yes itachis much smarter then minato....minato deciphered kamui in under a min while kakashi needed a whole battle with support...oh ya itachi came up with the amazing stratedgy of launching their strongest long range attacks at chibaku tensei..but you know he is much smarter

yup lets ignore the fact that itachi has pathetic reserves while minato has very large reserves in a drawn out fight itachi wins

yup itachi quickly deciphers 8th gate fighting style every jutsu has a weakness from there on out itachi wins because his itachi this is the mindset of some itachi fans lol


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jan 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Ah yes itachis much smarter then minato....minato deciphered kamui in under a min while kakashi needed a whole battle with support...



Minato never even deciphered Kamui. He merely stated that Obito's S/T is superior to his own and happened to have a technique that's capable of escaping the warp quick enough. Kakashi needed a whole battle to figure out that the two dimensions are connected between their eyes.

Quite the difference.



> oh ya itachi came up with the amazing stratedgy of launching their strongest long range attacks at chibaku tensei..but you know he is much smarter



At least that's a strategy... Playing a game of speed with Obito and having one technique that's suited for escaping Kamui's warp isn't considered "strategical" in my eyes.

Itachi is also very deceptive, unlike Minato.



> yup lets ignore the fact that itachi has pathetic reserves while minato has very large reserves in a drawn out fight itachi wins



Living Minato's chakra reserves aren't monstrous. Warping both Bijuudama and Kyuubi contributed to most of his chakra loss... Through scaling and common sense, Healthy Itachi should have better reserves than Sick Itachi, who still managed to outlast Hebi Sasuke in their fight.



> yup itachi quickly deciphers 8th gate fighting style every jutsu has a weakness from there on out itachi wins because his itachi this is the mindset of some itachi fans lol



I don't even know what you're saying right here.
If you can rephrase this sentence in English, I'll provide the response you're looking for.


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## ShadowReaper (Jan 12, 2015)

Minato is faster, can summon several toads, can use SM, is able to simply teleport/reflect his attacks and has much better endurance.

If he doesn't stupidly get caught by Tsukiomi, then he will win with mid-high difficulty.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 12, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> I don't even know what you're saying right here.
> If you can rephrase this sentence in English, I'll provide the response you're looking for.



He's trying to belittle your argument with 'lol Itachi fans' while dismissing Itachi as an intelligent character who can figure things out in enough time and in ideal conditions. Bringing up Itachi beating 8 Gates (which has jack shit to do with this fight, keep in mind) was an effort to make you look bad because fans of a character will claim they win no matter what, even though that applies to _more_ than just Itachi fans. 

Isn't that kind of an ad hominem?

"Oh you'd just say he'd win anything, wouldn't you you Itachi fan?" -hissing noises-


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## Icegaze (Jan 13, 2015)

i dont like this match up at all 
minato wins 
everything points to the fact that he could be in itachi face instantly like against juudara. Only problem is itachi doesnt have the physical speed to counter. If he did minato bunshin ability combined with hirashin makes him a nightmare. Itachi is smart enough to not waste steam on higher levels of susanoo that much is obvious. 

how tskuyomi and amaterasu which are his best bet, can be countered with foolish ease by hirashin or a bunshin 
no knowledge for itachi means itachi dies fairly quickly


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## sabre320 (Jan 13, 2015)

SoleAccord said:


> He's trying to belittle your argument with 'lol Itachi fans' while dismissing Itachi as an intelligent character who can figure things out in enough time and in ideal conditions. Bringing up Itachi beating 8 Gates (which has jack shit to do with this fight, keep in mind) was an effort to make you look bad because fans of a character will claim they win no matter what, even though that applies to _more_ than just Itachi fans.
> 
> Isn't that kind of an ad hominem?
> 
> "Oh you'd just say he'd win anything, wouldn't you you Itachi fan?" -hissing noises-



Actually i find it amusing how he portrayed itachi as some kind of genius compared to minato as if minato is some kind of idiot compared to itachis intelligence...itachis statement of every technique has a weakeness in the chibaku tensei feat is taken as some kind of gospel and some amazing analytical feat.....he basically figured out launch ur strongest ranged attacks at chibaku tensei while they could...and minato deciphered kamui in under a min he realized the mechanics both warping and intangibilty realized its weakeness and exploited it with ruthless efficiency against an opponent who had all the knowledge prep and still he pales in comparison to itachis intelligence....they are both portrayed as geniuses thats it...

and the other argument from some itachi fans i find laughable is that with his god tier anaytical abilities he can analyze the fighting style of any opponent and apaprently will find a weakeness and beat him strength and abilities are irrelevant itachis genius is just that good:/


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## Tarot (Jan 13, 2015)

Minato wins both scenarios. The second Minato lays his hands on Itachi, he's screwed with an ftg seal. Itachi is gonna be forced to go on the defensive pretty quickly in Susanoo. If there's one thing we learned from Sasuke's fight with Danzo, outlasting an MS user is a very viable strategy, one made all easier by FTG.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 13, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Actually i find it amusing how he portrayed itachi as some kind of genius compared to minato as if minato is some kind of idiot compared to itachis intelligence...itachis statement of every technique has a weakeness in the chibaku tensei feat is taken as some kind of gospel and some amazing analytical feat.....he basically figured out launch ur strongest ranged attacks at chibaku tensei while they could...and minato deciphered kamui in under a min he realized the mechanics both warping and intangibilty realized its weakeness and exploited it with ruthless efficiency against an opponent who had all the knowledge prep and still he pales in comparison to itachis intelligence....they are both portrayed as geniuses thats it...
> 
> and the other argument from some itachi fans i find laughable is that with his god tier anaytical abilities he can analyze the fighting style of any opponent and apaprently will find a weakeness and beat him strength and abilities are irrelevant itachis genius is just that good:/



You could not have made points against him without coming at his preference personally? Few people here can actually debate without holding their favorite character on a pedestal. You were able to counter his points without the attack, but who am I kidding, it's the internet, people do that kind of shit all the time. 

Feel free to counter his response then.


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## sabre320 (Jan 13, 2015)

SoleAccord said:


> You could not have made points against him without coming at his preference personally? Few people here can actually debate without holding their favorite character on a pedestal. You were able to counter his points without the attack, but who am I kidding, it's the internet, people do that kind of shit all the time.
> 
> Feel free to counter his response then.



I did not once use any foul language did not degrade him did not call him any foul words...dude im not like that i only mentioned itachi in the post...i never took things to a personal level


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## Icegaze (Jan 13, 2015)

I would love to see how itachi blocks 30+ kunai or deflects them 
are we assuming he can move from point A to B faster than he can throw weapons to deflect ?
Also if he moves out of the way then what. Minato only need wait for him 
Itachi cannot fight him effectively from far . Avoiding eye contact could not be easier for Minato
Who could be in 30 different places at any given time add bunshin to that and it's a nightmare 

If Ei can avoid Eye contact from madara and sasuke Minato casually avoids eye contact from itachi


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## Euraj (Jan 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> I would love to see how itachi blocks 30+ kunai or deflects them
> are we assuming he can move from point A to B faster than he can throw weapons to deflect ?
> Also if he moves out of the way then what. Minato only need wait for him
> Itachi cannot fight him effectively from far . Avoiding eye contact could not be easier for Minato
> ...


Same way he did this, I suppose. 

That wasn't how it was suggested here

Difference is, Minato won't be right on top of him, but fifteen meters away. If you don't really know how far that is, I'd recommend getting a picture reference, since it seems like people here tend to underestimate distances when meters are used. In addition, have you considered how often Madara has actually been shown using Genjutsu on people? Itachi spammed it more than any other character in the story. Even his brother who was supposed to have keener eyes produced Genjutsu that were said to be as inferior to Itachi's as the Earth is beneath the sky. Saying because Madara had to work to hit Ei means Itachi can't hit Minato would be like saying Pain can't counter Bushin feints because Naruto got him with one. Itachi is one of the most versatile Genjutsu users in the story, and doesn't even need to make eye contact to cast them.

Not that I think Itachi is more likely to win, since the OP conveniently gave Minato the knowledge advantage, but the argument is laughable. Someone of that level is not stomping Itachi.


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## ki0 (Jan 13, 2015)

Itachi could create 2 Karasu Bunshins and fight back to back with both of them. Stopping Minato from ever blitzing him.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jan 13, 2015)

Clones have been consistently portrayed as being inferior to the original and not really good for direct combat or, indeed, much beyond feints or support.

There have been a few exceptions to this, but I don't think it's applicable to Itachi, considering his low level of stamina.


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## Icegaze (Jan 14, 2015)

Euraj said:


> Same way he did this, I suppose.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke running together is evidence of KCM Naruto and Sasuke having the same movement speed.
> 
> ...



looooool  
notice he is using 2 hands and multiple swings to do that
minato threw 30 in 1 hand swing. its quite obvious that minato would throw his 30 first . 
greater physical and reaction speed. this means even if they get deflected they would be closer to itachi than they would be to minato. 

I didnt  say minato stomps just that in any situation he would always win. lets assume itachi deflects every kunai and every one of them is out of their dangerous range

then what??? itachi cant hit him? and leaving that battlefield doesnt help him win. Trickign minato is unlikely, i dont see why anyone with the ability to use clones and hirashin would get caught in genjutsu. which is itachi only singular way of being dangerous. nothing else is remotely worth minato time. 

minato simply need wait for itachi to attack him.


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## sabre320 (Jan 14, 2015)

Funny thing minatos kunai throwing speed has shown to be extremely fast..dude went sage mode threw a kunai formed a rasengan and teleported next to madara before kamui warp had begun whats itachis fastest feat throwing shurikens against base sasuke.....minato threw 30 kunai against ei in one go before ei could capitalize...he will get his kunai into range whether this is through clones getting into range with shunshin minato can simply employ the same tactics of tobirama against sm madara carrying two kunai in his hands and utilizng ftg in close range through himself and clones and swapping between them....and lets assume the fight gets drawn out and itachi manages to keep minato at bay he has been shown and stated to have low reserves ms techniques put great pressure on those reserves minato has been stated to have enormous reserves as a prequesite of summoning gamabunta and learning sage mode minato outlasts ..minato  can use sage mode in bursts to exploit openings or summon ma and pa for partner method frog call or frog song both leave itachi defenseless or gama to force itachi to use either amaterasu or sussano...


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## Icegaze (Jan 14, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Funny thing minatos kunai throwing speed has shown to be extremely fast..dude went sage mode threw a kunai formed a rasengan and teleported next to madara before kamui warp had begun whats itachis fastest feat throwing shurikens against base sasuke.....minato threw 30 kunai against ei in one go before ei could capitalize...he will get his kunai into range whether this is through clones getting into range with shunshin minato can simply employ the same tactics of tobirama against sm madara carrying two kunai in his hands and utilizng ftg in close range through himself and clones and swapping between them....and lets assume the fight gets drawn out and itachi manages to keep minato at bay he has been shown and stated to have low reserves ms techniques put great pressure on those reserves minato has been stated to have enormous reserves as a prequesite of summoning gamabunta and learning sage mode minato outlasts ..minato  can use sage mode in bursts to exploit openings or summon ma and pa for partner method frog call or frog song both leave itachi defenseless or gama to force itachi to use either amaterasu or sussano...



Using Sm in short bursts is actually an excellent tactic 
as this would be harder to anticipate as his physical speed would increase even if slightly 
makes it harder to time a counter or to evade

same way he can fight with clones which are slower to really throw itachi off 

the fact is no none sage of sixth path related person can prevent minato from getting a kunai close to them 

we go on about how itachi catches people in genjutsu every match and he does no doubt

no one in this forum can mention one time minato was shown in battle and he did not get his kunai close to the enemy he was fighting. obito hardly counts as he was marked already 


In short i agree minato wins this mid difficulty at the most


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