# Kizaru vs Human Torch (Johnny Storm)



## eaebiakuya (Sep 28, 2012)

Johnny without cosmic rod.


1 - Speed equal

2 - No restriction


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## Heavenly King (Sep 28, 2012)

what is up with your threads man??


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## Tacocat (Sep 28, 2012)

I think he may be trying for negs


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## Atem (Sep 28, 2012)

I remember EM posting a scan with Johnny reaching a planck temperature (what's with Marvel and plancks?) that was the opposite of absolute zero or something. Absolute heat, infinite heat? What in the world do you call that?


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## Blue (Sep 28, 2012)

Falcon Man said:


> I remember EM posting a scan with Johnny reaching a planck temperature (what's with Marvel and plancks?) that was the opposite of absolute zero or something. Absolute heat, infinite heat? What in the world do you call that?



Absolute hot and Planck temperature both serve. There's no upper limit of temperature, but that's the temperature at which our current understanding of physics breaks down. Somewhere in the yottakelvin range.


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## Saitomaru (Sep 28, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Absolute hot and Planck temperature both serve. There's no upper limit of temperature, but that's the temperature at which our current understanding of physics breaks down. Somewhere in the yottakelvin range.



Yeah I discussed those with my 6th grade science teacher. He was a interesting teacher (we had an assignment that involved bullet-proof dolphins). Anyway... Unless I'm missing something regarding Kizaru (I would appreciate it if you guys told me asap) Johnny stomps.


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## Linkofone (Sep 28, 2012)

Which Johnny Storm? Ultimate or 616?

Because in Ultimate, Reed told Johnny to go Super Nova.


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## Zeno (Sep 28, 2012)

Devil's advocate: What about Kizaru's tendency to not be affected by heat?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 28, 2012)

Kizaru vs planck temp ?


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## Zeno (Sep 28, 2012)

What about it?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 28, 2012)

think    man


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## Zeno (Sep 28, 2012)

You're going to have to say because I'm too stupid to think.


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## hammer (Sep 28, 2012)

no limit fallacy


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 28, 2012)

Torch can't reach plank under normal circumstances, he can reach 1 million degrees F but at his full power. Not sure about his speed, supersonic+ atleast since he melts bullets after they're fired and keeps up with fliers like Ironman. Someone can probably post a feat matching Kizaru.

I'm sure with some 40+ years worth of feats and powerscaling he'd have enough speed feats just have'nt read enough FF4 unless it involved someone I liked.

Get the feeling OP is trying to cause shitstorms, hopefully the thread ends with a scan or three.


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## Zeno (Sep 28, 2012)

hammer said:


> no limit fallacy



Don't make me use my earthquake analogy.


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 28, 2012)

When Johnny used Planck temperature he was merged with thousands of Torchs from anothers universes. 

He could keep in that form for only 60 seconds. But that was one time power-up.

What is wrong with the thread ?



> Which Johnny Storm? Ultimate or 616?
> 
> Because in Ultimate, Reed told Johnny to go Super Nova.



616


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## Endless Mike (Sep 28, 2012)

His supernova flames reach 10 billion degrees IIRC


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## Zeno (Sep 28, 2012)

Does the heat matter? Is that amount of heat going to affect anything?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 28, 2012)

yes it will


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## Tacocat (Sep 28, 2012)

Maybe we should make a Kizaru vs the Sun thread


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## Linkofone (Sep 28, 2012)

SuperTacocat said:


> Maybe we should make a Kizaru vs the Sun thread



*Kizaru vs an Exploding star.


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## Zeno (Sep 28, 2012)

SuperTacocat said:


> Maybe we should make a Kizaru vs the Sun thread



maybe you should


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## Tacocat (Sep 28, 2012)

Linkofone said:


> *Kizaru vs an Exploding star.



Exploding Star dumps all over Kizaru. It needs to be at least a fair fight.

*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __


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## Doommaker (Sep 28, 2012)

Kizaru vs Black Hole.

Light gets sucked into black holes.


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## Tom Servo (Sep 28, 2012)

this thread is fail

 the human torch doesn't stand a chance against someone whose galactus level


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## Zeno (Sep 28, 2012)

Kizaru loses to a black hole. I'm being serious.


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 28, 2012)

In a thread against Yamamoto, some people was saying no matter how heat his sword is, Kizaru will not be affected by heat. I dont saw much people posting against it. 

Thats why i opened this thread...


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## Endless Mike (Sep 28, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> In a thread against Yamamoto, some people was saying no matter how heat his sword is, Kizaru will not be affected by heat. I dont saw much people posting against it.
> 
> Thats why i opened this thread...



So it's a spite thread. Great job


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 28, 2012)

I never liked people with usernames that I can't properly pronounce without sounding like a massive tool and eaebiakuya proves why


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 28, 2012)

I though Godmoviment was a respectable user. He was claiming Yamamoto had no chance, dont matter the heat.

Someone who could resist a 15 million C flames could battle against the torch, IMO.

When was said the Supernova is in billions range ?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 28, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> I though Godmoviment was a respectable user. He was claiming Yamamoto had no chance, dont matter the heat.
> 
> Someone who could resist a 15 million C flames could battle against the torch, IMO.
> 
> When was said the Supernova is in billions range ?




I see what you did here


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## Saitomaru (Sep 28, 2012)

SuperTacocat said:


> Maybe we should make a Kizaru vs the Sun thread



You mean Kizaru vs Yamamoto


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## Sequester (Sep 28, 2012)

godzillafan430 said:


> this thread is fail
> 
> the human torch doesn't stand a chance against someone whose galactus level



Are you saying Kizaru is Galactus level?


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## TheDestroyer (Sep 28, 2012)

Sequester said:


> Are you saying Kizaru is Galactus level?



Kizaru>WB>Itachi>Galactus


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## Sequester (Sep 28, 2012)

TheDestroyer said:


> Kizaru>WB>Itachi>Galactus



 Imagine? One Piece and Naruto would become even more ridiculous than DBZ.


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## Tom Servo (Sep 28, 2012)

Sequester said:


> Are you saying Kizaru is Galactus level?



nooooooooo offcourse not


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## Zeno (Sep 29, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> I though Godmoviment was a respectable user. He was claiming Yamamoto had no chance, dont matter the heat.
> 
> Someone who could resist a 15 million C flames could battle against the torch, IMO.
> 
> When was said the Supernova is in billions range ?



And he was absolutely fucking right. People here are too sarcastic to sit down and explain anything any more.


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## Doommaker (Sep 30, 2012)

Supernovas are typically billions of degrees C. But I don't know much about the Human Torch so I can't say for sure how hot his flames are.


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## SsjAzn (Sep 30, 2012)

Johnny destroyed a Manhattan sized space rock didn't he? If so, that's above any top tier feat in OP. Flame boy stomps yellow monkey.


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## Doommaker (Sep 30, 2012)

What's the Human Torch's speed and durability?


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## Renegade Knight (Sep 30, 2012)

I'm pretty sure Kizaru can blitz Johnny before he goes supernova.
Even if he doesn't, he's still a light man.


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## Linkofone (Sep 30, 2012)

I'm pretty sure Kizaru would be on fire just by flaming up.


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## Bullbob (Sep 30, 2012)

Lolll at people thinking Johny isn't intangible as well...


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## Linkofone (Sep 30, 2012)

Bullbob said:


> Lolll at people thinking Johny isn't intangible as well...



Wait, is he intangible? I mean, fire is....well I donno.


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## Bullbob (Sep 30, 2012)

Linkofone said:


> Wait, is he intangible? I mean, fire is....well I donno.



Yeah, when he flames on he becomes pure plasma. Watch any panel where bullets are fired at him, Those hat don't melt just pass through him.


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## Linkofone (Sep 30, 2012)

Bullbob said:


> Yeah, when he flames on he becomes pure plasma. Watch any panel where bullets are fired at him, Those hat don't melt just pass through him.



Why do I not remember that?!


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## Bullbob (Sep 30, 2012)

Well it s prettu simple, Human Torch in jis flame on state becomes living plasma. If he s plasma then by definition he's intangible.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 30, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Get the feeling OP is trying to cause shitstorms, hopefully the thread ends with a scan or three.



he's been doing this since he joined, the guy is a miserably butthurt liar who has gone to enormous lengths to wank anime in general over marvel...

how he hasn't been banned from making threads or topic banned from marvel remains an utter mystery



Zengetto said:


> And he was absolutely fucking right. People here are too sarcastic to sit down and explain anything any more.



or maybe you're doing something wrong, I mean lord knows you judt failed horribly at Devils Advocate and I've never seen you make a quality post in my life


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 30, 2012)

Bullbob said:


> Lolll at people thinking Johny isn't intangible as well...



Johnny is not intangible. He can be hurted by anyone who punch him, happened thousen of times before.

Ex:



or this:


*Spoiler*: __ 













The bullets dont hurt him because he melt then before.


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## Tacocat (Sep 30, 2012)

Hasn't he reached escape velocity before? Kizaru's not blitzing that.


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 30, 2012)

Going out of the earth is not equal = escape velocity. Only if you do it by a single jump. 

Flying, you can go out of earth with less speed.


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## Tacocat (Sep 30, 2012)

I know it's stupid to go by what the wiki says (i.e. that he's escape velocity), but that's all I had to base his speed on, as I don't remember many of his speed feats.


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## Endless Mike (Sep 30, 2012)

He is easily escape velocity considering he is able to keep up with and overtake spaceships that can reach orbit in seconds


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 30, 2012)

orbit in seconds is more like MHS


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## Krypton (Sep 30, 2012)

Why is this not locked?

Also anyone who claims Kizaru has any chance in hell of winning this fight have never read a F4 comic were Jonny is not hinders by pis/cis.


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## Heavenly King (Sep 30, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Johnny is not intangible. He can be hurted by anyone who punch him, happened thousen of times before.
> 
> Ex:
> 
> ...




stop it Moses


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## Majinvergil (Oct 1, 2012)

Spite thread and Kizaru rapes with supernova



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he's been doing this since he joined, the guy is a miserably butthurt liar who has gone to enormous lengths to wank anime in general over marvel...
> 
> how he hasn't been banned from making threads or topic banned from marvel remains an utter mystery


Not to mention this is a spite thread 



eaebiakuya said:


> In a thread against Yamamoto, some people was saying no matter how heat his sword is, Kizaru will not be affected by heat. I dont saw much people posting against it.
> 
> Thats why i opened this thread...


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## eaebiakuya (Oct 1, 2012)

I tought people who argued for Kizaru in the Bleach thread might be right.

When i made the thread i dont had a winner in my mind. And still, no one puted any argument instead of " this charachter wins". Or Kizaru will be affected by heat because...

Heavenly King, i just pointed out Johnny is not intangible.


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## Tacocat (Oct 1, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> And still, no one puted any argument instead of " this charachter wins". Or Kizaru will be affected by heat because...



Okay, try the fact that Johnny is at the very least escape velocity plus the fact that saying Kizaru won't be harmed by any amount if heat in Johnny's output range is a no limits fallacy.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 1, 2012)

There the slight problem that Johnny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamamoto


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## Cocoa (Oct 1, 2012)

You do realize that anyone can say his powers evolved later and thus gained his intangibility.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 1, 2012)

To be honest I'm not exactly sure about that. I haven't seen him become intangible (although I wouldn't rule it out if it did happen, I might have just not seen it).


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## Cocoa (Oct 1, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> To be honest I'm not exactly sure about that. I haven't seen him become intangible (although I wouldn't rule it out if it did happen, I might have just not seen it).


I'm sure he doesn't need the intangibility anyway. He should have good enough durability right?


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## Endless Mike (Oct 1, 2012)

Yep. There's also the fact that trying to take him out with heat/fire based attacks (and Kizaru's attacks seem to inflict damage by heat) is kind of pointless unless your name is Surtur.


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## Cocoa (Oct 1, 2012)

Then Human Torch has this fight without a doubt. One super nova and Kizaru is death.


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## feebas_factor (Oct 1, 2012)

So this is less of an actual fight and more of a "does heat energy affect Kizaru" thread then, apparently.

Yeah, could've just put that in the meta... 

On a side note though - I am actually pretty curious whether Johnny can indeed go intangible, since I was sorta under the impression he just forms the flames around himself. Anyone have any scans or particular occasions they recall of such an ability?



Endless Mike said:


> Yep. There's also the fact that trying to take him out with heat/fire based attacks *(and Kizaru's attacks seem to inflict damage by heat)* is kind of pointless unless your name is Surtur.





You think? I'm not entirely sure laser/light attacks quite count the same as heat/fire based attacks.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 1, 2012)

Well judging by how he burned that tree and such...


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## feebas_factor (Oct 1, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Well judging by how he burned that tree and such...



Akira

Eh, I guess the results look similar enough to be a pretty valid reason to assume the method of conveying damage is similar too. Fair point.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 1, 2012)

his DC was calced via burning wood at least


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

> I am actually pretty curious whether Johnny can indeed go intangible



He can use the elemental intangibility since things do go through him if he allows them"(in his plasma form) as well as make heat clones of himself. I'll find the scans for those if I can, the clone thing was in a very old comic and digging through tons of comics to find a scan will take time. Someone else could.

Johnny's control over his flames has improved to a point he can do his Nova Flame without doing too much damage to the surroundings, atleast one instance where he did it without hurting a friendly but not sure if that is consistent.


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## mcdave (Oct 1, 2012)

Lol Kizaru kicked a Tree some hundred Meters away created a Fireball and People are comparing him with jonny Storm 

Shinigamis are Technical Invisbile next vs Thread Rukia vs Susan Storm.

The Wood burning is the Wet Dream of some calcers the Anime version supports another interpreation same as the on Panel feat.


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## hammer (Oct 1, 2012)

why are people posting spidy kicking their asses as if it shows they are weak and not spidy is strong?


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

Spiderman is'nt in Human Torch's level to begin with.


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## eaebiakuya (Oct 1, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> There the slight problem that Johnny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yamamoto



I understand that.

What i cant understand is : why Kizaru is not affected by 15 millions, but is affected by, lets say, 100 billions. I mean, from where those numbers come from???



> He can use the elemental intangibility since things do go through him if he allows them as well as make heat clones of himself. I'll find the scans for those if I can, the clone thing was in a very old comic and digging through tons of comics to find a scan will take time. Someone else could.



Yes, he can make clones or objects with fire, like swords or force fields. He can manipulate fire.

But i never seen any comic saying he could make his own body intangible.



> why are people posting spidy kicking their asses as if it shows they are weak and not spidy is strong?



The scan was posted to show he is not intangible, nothing about anyone being weak or strong.

But if Johnny has at least mach 33 speed, would make no sense in OBD terms Spider man having any chance against Torch. He would be speedblitzed in a OBD match (but i think this probably will never happen in a comic).


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## mcdave (Oct 1, 2012)

Keep your Fandom out of this eaewtf


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

Spiderman has precog/Spider sense to anticipate attacks, he does'nt need to be close to his opponent in speed or reactions. Johnny Storm is stronger than Spiderman.

-Took out a wave of Annihilus army
-In Annihilus's arena curbed someone who fought against Nu Xandar
-Nova level flames
-Flight
-Matching Ironman in speed
etc


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 1, 2012)

Johnny using his stuff in the atmosphere should make explosions too (just assuming)

powerful enough explosion > Kizaru

bankai Yama doesn't make explosions




> What i cant understand is : why Kizaru is not affected by 15 millions, but is affected by, lets say, 100 billions.


in regards to this



don't know why I even bothered to make this post


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

Solar Flare


Nova level flame 


More Nova flame



He's also melted an asteroid the size of Manhattan if I recall. Also melted Molybdenum

Clone power


Can absorb even nuclear energy



Doom states what Johnny could do to their part of the Hemisphere


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## Endless Mike (Oct 1, 2012)

...Because Johnny can constantly output his heat at a higher rate and for a longer period than Yamamoto. And logias are usually considered to be defeatable by scattering their bodies beyond the radius they've shown to reform from, Johnny has feats of creating large enough blasts to do this, and Yamamoto doesn't.


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## Tacocat (Oct 1, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> What i cant understand is : why Kizaru is not affected by 15 millions, but is affected by, lets say, 100 billions. I mean, from where those numbers come from??



Your mathematics and reading comprehension leave as much to be desired as your grammar


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## eaebiakuya (Oct 1, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> ...Because Johnny can constantly output his heat at a higher rate and for a longer period than Yamamoto. And logias are usually considered to be defeatable by scattering their bodies beyond the radius they've shown to reform from, Johnny has feats of creating large enough blasts to do this, and Yamamoto doesn't.



Ok then. Thank you for this reply! Now i can see the difference, thats not because the heat of the attack, but the area of damage.



> Spiderman has precog/Spider sense to anticipate attacks, he does'nt need to be close to his opponent in speed or reactions. Johnny Storm is stronger than Spiderman.



Every time Spider-man fighted against someone who claim to be Super Sonic, he had problems. When they write a issue with Spider-man + Human Torch, they just dont think Johnny has 33+ mach reactions.

Even with Spider-sense, he should not be able to fight against someone who is much faster than him.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 1, 2012)

Except he does. All the time. That's just the way he rolls.


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## Atem (Oct 1, 2012)

You got to love that Spiderman swag.

The Firelord fight will always be complete horseshit though.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 1, 2012)

Sigh, I hate to be that guy but Light is refracted due to extreme heat in the air. The density (less than normal) of the hot air around Johnny will slow down Kizaru period.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Every time Spider-man fighted against someone who claim to be Super Sonic, he had problems. When they write a issue with Spider-man + Human Torch, they just dont think Johnny has 33+ mach reactions.
> 
> Even with Spider-sense, he should not be able to fight against someone who is much faster than him.



What?He's used his spider sense to dodge attacks from Elektro and others. They just don't think he has mach 33+ reactions?But all those other times he's reached escape velocity or kept up with characters much faster than supersonic like Ironman, Quicksilver and others he was'nt?Johnny Storm has been around for decades and has been more powerful than Spiderman but then so was Herald FireLord who jobbed to Spidey. 

Let me explain this to you, Spider sense is precognition, it allows Spiderman to know an attack is coming before it has been fired i.e let him aim dodge the attack, it's not 100% like most precog but he can. Johnny Storm is also more powerful than Spiderman however due to things like high speed flight, flame covered bodies, clones, making things out of fire, AOE attacks, Nova level flame, ability to absorb heat from environment etc.


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## eaebiakuya (Oct 1, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> What?He's used his spider sense to dodge attacks from Elektro and others. They just don't think he has mach 33+ reactions?But all those other times he's reached escape velocity or kept up with characters much faster than supersonic like Ironman, Quicksilver and others he was'nt?Johnny Storm has been around for decades and has been more powerful than Spiderman but then so was Herald FireLord who jobbed to Spidey.
> 
> Let me explain this to you, Spider sense is precognition, it allows Spiderman to know an attack is coming before it has been fired i.e let him aim dodge the attack, it's not 100% like most precog but he can. Johnny Storm is also more powerful than Spiderman however due to things like high speed flight, flame covered bodies, clones, making things out of fire, AOE attacks, Nova level flame, ability to absorb heat from environment etc.



I never said Spiderman can win against the Torch. I said, WHEN johnny fight against Spider man, the writers dont put him in Mach 33 speed. Thats not only with Johnny, but Namor and a lot of characthers. You can say that is PIS.

You cant get a image of Spider outspeeding Namor and say " Spider can fight against guys with Massively Hipersonic speed", when it is clear that in THAT issue, Namor dont was portayed with that speed.

Aim dodge a beam is one thing, but dodge during all the fight a guy who is MUCH faster than you is just PIS.


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## Bullbob (Oct 1, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> I never said Spiderman can win against the Torch. I said, WHEN johnny fight against Spider man, the writers dont put him in Mach 33 speed. Thats not only with Johnny, but Namor and a lot of characthers. You can say that is PIS.
> 
> You cant get a image of Spider outspeeding Namor and say " Spider can fight against guys with Massively Hipersonic speed", when it is clear that in THAT issue, Namor dont was portayed with that speed.
> 
> Aim dodge a beam is one thing, but dodge during all the fight a guy who is MUCH faster than you is just PIS.



And yet you use an old one off image to prove that Human torch can be phisically punched in his plasma form by people in the superhuman wall/tree level range. How can that not be PIS as well?? It s simple. His intangibility is not written in by all writers but I've seen it mentionned and put on panel (like his fire clone ability). I don't have my old issues so I'll I'd be glad if someone could find one. But anyways it s fairly logical anyway. His flame on form is plasma so it's normal he could let attacks phase through him, but I guess Human Torch like many heroes is often victim of CIS as well and forgets he has that ability.


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## feebas_factor (Oct 1, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Sigh, I hate to be that guy but Light is refracted due to extreme heat in the air. *The density (less than normal) of the hot air around Johnny will slow down Kizaru period.*



Eh... Light actually goes faster in a less dense media. 
But still, you're right that the refraction effect could throw him off.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> I never said Spiderman can win against the Torch. I said, WHEN johnny fight against Spider man, the writers dont put him in Mach 33 speed. Thats not only with Johnny, but Namor and a lot of characthers. You can say that is PIS



The writers don't put Johnny at mach 10+ speeds yet he can reach escape velocity many many times?That alone puts him above Spiderman considering he can fight and manuever at his flight speeds. He can also react to characters at such speeds.



> You cant get a image of Spider outspeeding Namor and say " Spider can fight against guys with Massively Hipersonic speed", when it is clear that in THAT issue, Namor dont was portayed with that speed



We have something called consistent FEATS so yes if A keeps up with B 9/10 times we go with A having that kind of speed(assuming it's consistent with A). The author can claim that X attack is only mountain busting(X attack having lots and lots of feats of being above planet busting) and a character in the same comic survives X attack, would he have only mountain level durability?No far above that since the attack is consistently potrayed as planet busting . Johnny is consistenly faster than Spiderman and more powerful.



> Aim dodge a beam is one thing, but dodge during all the fight a guy who is MUCH faster than you is just PIS.



It happens many times in fiction with characters who have precog but okay it's PIS since it won't hurt my argument either since Spiderman despite being able to aim dodge should get his ass kicked anyway, you atleast agree Johnny is more powerful than Spiderman so kindly stop harping he's not mach 30+, you acknowledge the feat as PIS yet use it anyway to try and prove Johnny is not mid hypersonic to massively hypersonic?.

Johnny>>>Spiderman yes?Then why waste time on this. Even if Johnny is not intangible in his plasma form it won't matter here considering he's absorbed energy more powerful than what Kizaru dishes out and has gone against other elemental attacks.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

He's not completely useless in water either, it does take more out of him.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 1, 2012)

We're seriously doing "downplay via low showings" now?

I thought that crap died with the Phenom Brigade


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

Again Johnny notes how far he can fly but does'nt due to flaming out. He's also travelling the world with a break between. He rests after France but makes it to the Himalayas only stopping due to the storm clouds.


Makes a 1000 foot Tornado big enough to carry a giant monster. The Tornado dwarfs some of the buildings. This is during one of Namor's earlier appearances and it won't work on him now hence why I only mention the giant monster.


More is not  needed.


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## eaebiakuya (Oct 1, 2012)

Guys, im saying this : You cant say Spider-man can fight against guys with mach 30 speed because his fight against Johnny. I was talking this to hammer.

Saying he was with mach30+ reactions in all fights he had with Spider-man is non sense to me. But i dont said the "real" johnny is speed is this one. For me it is PIS.

In that issue the writter dont puted Johnny with Mach 30. Its not downplaying. 

I dont said he never was portayed with mach30+ speed.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 1, 2012)

Majinvergil said:


> Spite thread and Kizaru rapes with supernova
> 
> 
> Not to mention this is a spite thread



What I find interesting is that Spitethreads are currently against the rules from what I can recall- why is he Eaebyakuya allowed to post freely? All he makes are spite threads the man has literally done nothing since he first joined

one would think he'd be dealt with by now


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## Endless Mike (Oct 1, 2012)

LOL@Expecting the mods to actually do their job.


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## Linkofone (Oct 1, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> What I find interesting is that Spitethreads are currently against the rules from what I can recall- why is he Eaebyakuya allowed to post freely? All he makes are spite threads the man has literally done nothing since he first joined
> 
> one would think he'd be dealt with by now



Just going to post some powers:



Nova Flame akins to the heatwaves of an Nuclear Blast

Donno if anyone posted this already, but:



Rivals the energy of an exploding star

I forgot where this was from:


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Guys, im saying this : You cant say Spider-man can fight against guys with mach 30 speed because his fight against Johnny. I was talking this to hammer.
> 
> Saying he was with mach30+ reactions in all fights he had with Spider-man is non sense to me. But i dont said the "real" johnny is speed is this one. For me it is PIS.
> 
> ...



I never said Spiderman has mach 30 reactions, precog's whole point is that you don't need to be as fast as the thing you're doing. He used his precog many times to dodges things much faster, it's not 100% effective since even precog has limits depending on it's level. I never claimed Spiderman was anywhere near Johnny you pointing out the flaw in your idea that Johnny is'nt mach whatever because Spiderman could react to him.

We get it Johnny jobbed to Spiderman why bring it up?Writers sometimes potray characters differently this can happen in verses like DC, Marvel, Starwars, Transformers etc but there is such a thing as consistent level which is what we go with, it's how we know if a feat is low end or outlier. Let me explain to you what you've done

You: guys Johnny is'nt so fast because here's Spiderman tagging him
Me: Explains the concept of spider sense
You: I think the Spiderman fight is PIS

You posted the Spiderman fight to downplay Johnny's speed and when you for some weird reason assumed I claimed Spiderman is mach 30 or whatever you called PIS. What the hell are you arguing about?Do you even remember?Offcourse CIS off, bloodlust on and PIS off Johnny would roflstomp Spidey but you're the one who brought up that feat to downplay Johnny's other many feats.

You're saying Johnny has never been potrayed at mid hypersonic speeds?How much speed is needed again to reach escape velocity which he has done many times with me even posting 2 or three such moments out of many here?I even gave a scan where he travels across the world, he takes a break after France but makes it all the way to Himalayas without any rest while having dodged some missiles and planes(he could have possibly gone further if not for the Storm coming). Plus keeping up with Ironman who can reach escape Velocities himself, one instance of keeping up with Quicksilver and more.


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## Emperor Joker (Oct 1, 2012)

Linkofone said:


> Just going to post some powers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That last one was from Fantastic Four 600 I think, it was one of the back ups detailing how Johnny came to rule the Negative Zone.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 1, 2012)

Yeah Johnny eventually getting the Cosmic rod. That was a nice story in of itself showcasing his time as a Gladiator and leading resistance.

But on topic while it's true certain writers may potray characters and their feats differently we go with the consistent feats. Thus Eabiakuya's point is moot since the number of instances of Johnny having such feats outweighs the number he does'nt in general considering I've seen some 10-20 feats like that.


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## Linkofone (Oct 1, 2012)

Ok, thank you y'all for explaining it. I totally forgot where that was from.
But has everyone come to the conclusion that Johnny would win? Or are there still arguments on how Kizaru could beat him?


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## feebas_factor (Oct 1, 2012)

Linkofone said:


> Ok, thank you y'all for explaining it. I totally forgot where that was from.
> But has everyone come to the conclusion that Johnny would win? *Or are there still arguments on how Kizaru could beat him?*



I don't think so, especially since we generally assume logias can be scattered/destroyed by a sufficiently energetic AOE attack (which Human Torch certainly has).

Though a scan or feat for either his possible intangibility (?) or his durability vs. energy blasts would be nice just to cinch it. Kizaru is still a lot more powerful than just a measely old nuclear blast after all.


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## Linkofone (Oct 1, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> I don't think so, especially since we generally assume logias can be scattered/destroyed by a sufficiently energetic AOE attack (which Human Torch certainly has).
> 
> Though a scan or feat for either his possible intangibility (?) or his durability vs. energy blasts would be nice just to cinch it.* Kizaru is still a lot more powerful than just a measely old nuclear blast after all*.



I don't remember a Kizaru vs Mother Russia thread. 

Need to ask Mr.Oda to write an arc where Kizaru is fighting a nuclear missile.


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## eaebiakuya (Oct 1, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> You posted the Spiderman fight to downplay Johnny's speed and when you for some weird reason assumed I claimed Spiderman is mach 30 or whatever you called PIS.



I only posted to show Johnny is not intangible. I found spider man images, but it could be The Thing, Dr. Doom, Namor or anyone else!

Other people started to claim it was downplaying by my part, but i never said the picture shows Johnny is slow!

Then hammer said "thats not bad showing for Torch, is a feat for Spider"

Then  i said he was not with Mach30+ speed in THAT issue.

Sorry for misunderstand, it should be because my english is bad.



> You're saying Johnny has never been potrayed at mid hypersonic speeds?



No, i never said that. I said in issues against Spider, he has never been potrayed.


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## hammer (Oct 1, 2012)

kizaru vs tzar bomb


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