# Most overrated and underrated NBD characters?



## Sufex (Apr 3, 2019)

ITT *post 1 character who you think is underrated *by the vast members of the battledome and *post 1 who you think is overrated.*

*Give a few reasons why.*

This should be interesting


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## Android (Apr 3, 2019)

My fav is underrated.

Yours is overrated.

Thank you and your fav gets mid diffed.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 3, 2019)

Underrated

IA Naruto: Said to be stronger than Kakashi, Mostly soloed a Solid Mid Kage and kept him terrified most of the fight, considered the only hope of his village beating Pain.
People wonder if he is even low Kage level here.

Overrated: Depends on the week.


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## Shazam (Apr 3, 2019)

Underrated: Edo Hiruzen 

Overrated: Currently A4


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## MaruUchiha (Apr 3, 2019)

Underrated: Any form of Obito
Kid Obito - Gets underrated for being a loser in the academy but users ignore his vast improvement that led to him becoming a Chunin. Once he got 2 tomoe Sharingan he was even pushing Jonin Tier on panel
MS Obito - Users downplay him when he has insane stats and feats
Rinnegan Obito - Users forget how strong Edo jins, Bijuu, and Gedo Mazo are plus act like he can't summon Juubi
Juubito - Claimed to be one of the weakest God Tiers but he's one of the strongest and stronger than 8tg gate Gai
DMS Obito - Stronger than DMS Kakashi but some users are in denial. Some users try to act like he's weak and dying when he showed multiple signs of being healthy

Overrated: Tie between Hashirama and EMS Madara - Both get scaled to God Tier. Some users even think Hashirama can defeat Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto and EMS Sasuke at once like he's Juubito or some shit. And users love giving EMS Madara the same feats as Hashi boob Madara


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 3, 2019)

Overrated:
Itachi Uchiha-By far the most overrated character in the BD and the entire forum. Even over half a decade after his final death, he's still put up against guys he has no way of facing such as Minato, BM Naruto, EMS and MS Sasuke, Pain, Madara, and Hashirama. All because his cult takes hyperbole literally.
Hebi Sasuke-Mostly because of Turrin and new posters, Hebi Sasuke is now being claimed to be SM Naruto's 'equal' despite inferior feats all around even with just the Pain fight to go on.
Hashirama Senju-The God of Shinobi has been vastly overrated by people here. True he has a lot of raw power and hax that's good against wild Biju, but against Perfect Jinchuriki's like Naruto he ends up falling short. Not only that, he keeps being put up against Rikudo powered and Juubi Powered God Tiers while he's no where near that level of power.

Underrated:
Base Naruto-Honestly base Naruto is one of the most underrated on the forum despite having feats which surpass Kakashi. The overall attitude is if he's out of his powered up forms, Sasuke defeats him despite Naruto's base being at or slightly superior to Sasuke (which its always been).
Jiraiya-Basically the J-Man keeps getting underrated by Itachi fans and Kisame fans who ignore the hype he got as well as the feats which back him up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sufex (Apr 3, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Juubito - Claimed to be one of the weakest God Tiers but he's one of the strongest and stronger than 8tg gate Gai
> DMS Obito - Stronger than DMS Kakashi but some users are in denial. Some users try to act like he's weak and dying when he showed multiple signs of being healthy



Dog im gonna need you to explain something

>How is juubito stronger than 8th gate gai when he was rag dolling JJ madara (with assistance) who is far superior




SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Overrated:
> Itachi Uchiha
> Hebi Sasuke
> Hashirama Senju
> ...



You need to explain why otherwise this threads just becomes people listing characters they like and dont like. im trying to generate discussion.


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## MaruUchiha (Apr 3, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> >How is juubito stronger than 8th gate gai when he was rag dolling JJ madara (with assistance) who is far superior


Gai ragdolled Juubi Madara with help. He couldn't get past Truth Seeker Orbs by himself which Juubito has


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## Sufex (Apr 3, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Gai ragdolled Juubi Madara with help. He couldn't get past Truth Seeker Orbs by himself which Obito has


Fair point


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## Hayumi (Apr 3, 2019)

Overrated: All of the Sannin
In my opinion a decent amount of people overestimate all of the sannin and say stupid things regarding who they could defeat. I've heard people say that ORO could defeat MINATO. And regardless of if any of u agree with that I'm sorry but lol.

Underrated: Kisame. In my opinion I think he was a clear cut above the rest of the "mid level" Akatsuki members and was only surpassed by the dojutsu trio. This is probably an uncommon opinion from what I've seen but idgaf


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## Omote (Apr 3, 2019)

Overrated: Sannin, Itachi
Underrated: A4, Mu, Onoki, Gengetsu, Killer B

Might edit in reasons later


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## Kisame (Apr 3, 2019)

Underrated is Hebi Sasuke: everything from his portrayal to feats to DB description is undermined because people dislike him. I could write an essay on this.

Reactions: Like 2


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 3, 2019)

Shark said:


> Underrated is Hebi Sasuke: everything from his portrayal to feats to DB description is undermined because people dislike him. I could write an essay on this.


Hebi Sasuke isn't underrated, he vastly overrated. Oh and by the way, I LIKED how Sasuke was then, he was badass and not a rageaholic.


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## Kisame (Apr 3, 2019)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hebi Sasuke isn't underrated, he vastly overrated. Oh and by the way, I LIKED how Sasuke was then, he was badass and not a rageaholic.


Dude you think Hebi Sasuke is not even Kage level so

Reactions: Like 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 3, 2019)

Shark said:


> Dude you think Hebi Sasuke is not even Kage level so


Low Kage/High Jonin level. Hebi Sasuke can't face characters like A, SM Naruto, Gaara, or any of the Sannin like his wankers love to think he can.


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## Tanto (Apr 3, 2019)

Obito is underrated, He was one of the most powerful characters in Naruto. He fought on par with Minato at 14. He controlled the Akatsuki, and he only lost to tnj. 


The founders are overrated. Some posters beleive that Hashirama would beat bsm Naruto and Ems Sasuke. I've seen someone saying that Hashirama is on par with Rsm Naruto. Hashirama couldn't even kill Kakuzu, and to say he can't beat Bsm Naruto and Sasuke is atrocious.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 3, 2019)

Shark said:


> Dude you think Hebi Sasuke is not even Kage level so


Preach


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Low Kage/High Jonin level


Cancer


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hebi Sasuke can't face characters like A, SM Naruto, Gaara, or any of the Sannin like his wankers love to think he can.


The Sannin arent like the others

The Sannin just arent the same 

Like their wankers THINK they are

Hebi can absolutely take the Sannin

He flat out outperformed orochimaru against the same opponent. It really doesnt get much clearer than that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 3, 2019)

Who is overrated varies a lot, but right now one character stands out more than the others. 
*Overrated*
A4 - People act like he doesn't need to charge V2 at all and can instantaneously blitz and one-shot anyone who isn't Minato or NTCM Naruto.
*Underrated*
Hiruzen - Literally every form of him is underrated and always will be.  This is due to people having a hard time understanding that power inflation exists. That, or people don't understand how Edo Tensei works.


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## MaruUchiha (Apr 3, 2019)

How did I forget to give Delta an honorable mention for being the latest addition to overrated chararacters


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 3, 2019)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Overrated:
> Itachi Uchiha-


This right here?

This is how you can spot either a butthurt Sannin fan, or someone who is never in the NBD...Or both (fun fact its both in this dudes case)

Cuz Itachi has ZERO representation in the NBD as it exists today, and anyone objective who spends ANY time in the NBD would agree with that.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hashirama Senju-


Hashirama is so obnoxiously powerful compared to 99.99% of the verse its borderline impossible to overrate him...

Only way to overrate him would be to say Hashi > Juubito or some similar level of ridiculousness. Which no one does.





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hebi Sasuke-


How to spot a butthurt Sannin fan/someone with no time in the NBD volume 2.0

Hebi isnt overrated here either...Youve got like 2 trolls here who claim hes SM Naruto level like Turrin, about a dozen or more blind people who think hes barely IF EVEN Kage level like you, and the reasonable people who put him a hair below or equal to the Sannin like myself.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke defeats him despite Naruto's base being at or slightly superior to Sasuke (which its always been).


This isnt true 

Sasuek flat out clapped Base Naruto their entire fucking relationship

Hell...Sasuke in Base has outperformed Narutos Kyuubi or Senjutsu amped states consistently in this manga. Youve got Sasuek outperforming Naruto in the FoD against oro, youve got Sasuke literally giving KN Naruto the hands at VOTE, youve got Sasuke slapping Kurama with a collar while hes inside Naruto, youve got oro telling us Sasuke >>> KN3 Naruto, youve got Naruto HIMSELF telling us Sasuke would kill him in SM and Naruto would kill him in SM...The list goes on.

One would need to be BLIND to state Sasuke has been inferior to Narutos fucking Base...Blind or biased anyway,

So youre a butthurt Naruto fan as well as a Sannin one? Or just an Uchiha downplayer?

Its one of em.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Underrated:





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jiraiya


Thats a good fucking joke


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Base Naruto


I do agree with this in general tho


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## Speedyamell (Apr 3, 2019)

Underrated- sakura.
Overrated- not sakura.


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## Shazam (Apr 3, 2019)

overrated: Kaguya

Underrated: Iruka he was always top tier


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## wooly Eullerex (Apr 3, 2019)

overrated
deidara/ kisame/ temari/ darui/ kitsuchi/ gaara
mei/ hebi sasuke/ onoki

underrated
hiruzen/ kakuzu/ konan/ base jiraiya/ danzo w/o koto/ orochimaru w/o edo
sm j w/o genjutsu  /kimimaro /zabuza /sasori /pein /muu


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## Sufex (Apr 3, 2019)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Underrated:
> 
> Jiraiya-Basically the J-Man keeps getting underrated by Itachi fans and Kisame fans who ignore the hype he got as well as the feats which back him up.



You cant be serious, there are like 3 itachi fans on the entire forum now a days. Jiraya fans out number them at least 3 to 1. Any jman thread its one guy getting dog-pilled by 3/4 of the cult.

They even have their own group of like 10+ regular posters.

you couldn't be anymore wrong


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## Shazam (Apr 3, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> butthurt Sannin






WorldsStrongest said:


> butthurt Sannin






WorldsStrongest said:


> Sannin






WorldsStrongest said:


> Sannin



Hmm..

Someone seems invested in the Sannin


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Apr 3, 2019)

*Underrated*

IA Naruto, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Hebi Sasuke, Sakura, Hiruzen, Danzo, Hanzo


*Overrated*

A3, A4, Bee, Bijuu 1-8, Nagato


*Shockingly, now generally fairly rated*

Itachi, Kisame, Kakashi, Gai. I never envisioned a board where they are generally placed in the right place.


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## ~Kakashi~ (Apr 3, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Gai ragdolled Juubi Madara with help. He couldn't get past Truth Seeker Orbs by himself which Juubito has



Would depend if it's mindless Juubito or not I'd think, cause not sure mindless Juubito stays in a TSO ball. Avoiding TSOs isn't an issue. Gai did it in seemingly the 5th gate(or lower) when he saved Kakashi from one(I'm assuming he grabbed Kakashi and got him away, but it's not really clear. All that is said is he saved Kakashi/Kakashi says he's finally on time for once), then Lee does it in what appears to be the 6th Gate to save Gai. Even in mid air Gai can run on air to avoid them, but with the help of Minato, Kakashi and Lee he was able to continue his attack instead of worrying about avoiding.

There's also seemingly the case that Night Guy bending space makes using the TSOs impossible, as Madara used them to try and protect himself from the final step of sekizo, so seems like he would have done so against Night Guy as well had it been an option, and given its showing vs Sekizo, he can activate them at insane speeds. 

So if Juubito just stays in a TSO ball or whatever, he's seemingly safe from Gai. If he doesn't, I think he dies.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 3, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> A4 - People act like he doesn't need to charge V2 at all


He doesnt

He does it in one panel every time he ever uses V2

He goes FROM BASE to V2 so fast against Minato that THE YELLOW FUCKING FLASH barely has time to move

And he goes from Base to V2 AGAIN in one panel against KCM Naruto and Bee

Get over it

This myth that The Raikages need fucking "prep" or whatever the fuck to use SHUNSHIN needs to die...Along with the Sannin when they are ever matched up against a Raikage...As they have no business dealing with speed on that level.


Isaiah13000 said:


> and can instantaneously blitz and one-shot anyone who isn't Minato or NTCM Naruto.


He can

And he would have done so to MINATO NAMIKAZE if he couldnt fucking teleport

And would have done so to KCM Naruto if he wasnt capable of dodging due to being about a tier faster than A himself...Both Tsunade AND BEE state Raikage used enough power to fucking "ded" Naruto in his Shroud...And NAruto stated earlier than just his V1 hits were enough to fuck someone up.

Im truly lost on why Sannin fans miss out on how speed works in this manga...I guess its willful ignorance so they dont need to admit the Sannin are fucked against that speed?


Isaiah13000 said:


> *Underrated*
> Hiruzen -


Thats cute



Isaiah13000 said:


> This is due to people having a hard time understanding that power inflation exists.


Im pretty sure thats Hiruzen fans...ANd its not power inflation...Its power CREEP...Called that because it CREEPS right on by Hiruzen and about a dozen or more characters and made them worthless.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shazam (Apr 3, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> 3 itachi fans on the entire forum now a days. Jiraya fans out number them at least 3 to 1




This may be right, but then again the amount of people that dislike the Sannin (not necessarily Itachi fans) out number the Jiraiya fans 10 to 1.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 3, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Hmm..
> 
> Someone seems invested in the Sannin


Someone seems invested in me :blu


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## Sufex (Apr 3, 2019)

@Hardcore
@The Death & The Strawberry
@kokodeshide @UchihaX28 @Isaiah13000 @Hi no Ishi @SammySam @Shark @Artistwannabe @Mad Scientist @Munboy Dracule O'Brian @Ishmael @ThirdRidoku @Bonly @Grimmjowsensei @Turrin @Hussain @Omote
@ThomasTheCat @Wrecked Baloney
@Grinningfox.
@X III


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## kokodeshide (Apr 3, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> @kokodeshide


YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH BADGES TO TRAIN ME!
.
.
.
That being said...

Underrated: The fuckin Akatsuki recently.

Overrated: Any Hokage under 50. Bijuu.


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 3, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> He doesnt
> 
> He does it in one panel every time he ever uses V2
> 
> ...


 Seriously, if you're gonna be a dick you should at least make sure you're in the right first. I never said that A has to spend plenty of time charging up V2, it clearly only takes a few seconds on his end, which is all that is needed for most characters to mount some sort of defense considering how fast they all are. We saw what transpired during the five second interval between Naruto and Pain, Naruto characters are all quite fast, while A is standing there amping his mode up they can at least cast one jutsu. A also has to activate V1 before he can activate V2, and since his speed is world renown, it'd be basic common sense to prepare some sort of defense. The notion that A can instantly go V2 and blitz everyone but Minato and NTCM Naruto before they can even move an inch or cast one jutsu is idiotic and does not support how strong A was portrayed in the actual series at all. 


> Thats cute
> 
> 
> Im pretty sure thats Hiruzen fans...ANd its not power inflation...Its power CREEP...Called that because it CREEPS right on by Hiruzen and about a dozen or more characters and made them worthless.


I really have no interest in discussing Hiruzen with you right now to be honest, there is not a single thing I can say to change your trash opinion on him and I know it. Arguing with you about Hiruzen is definitely a lost cause.


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## Orochibuto (Apr 3, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> This right here?
> 
> This is how you can spot either a butthurt Sannin fan, or someone who is never in the NBD...Or both (fun fact its both in this dudes case)
> 
> Cuz Itachi has ZERO representation in the NBD as it exists today, and anyone objective who spends ANY time in the NBD would agree with that.



Itachi's wank is so absurd it became an internetwide meme in Naruto. No other fandom achieved that. I dont know how this forum is specifically in the current era.

But historically Itachi wank is by far and above the largest.

When the manga ended, there were people that argued Itachi can seal Kaguya with Totsuka. Arguments that Yata Mirror could deflect shit like a beam from the Death Star were commonplace.

Again, they wank got so over the top it evolved into humor and memes.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Hashirama is so obnoxiously powerful compared to 99.99% of the verse its borderline impossible to overrate him...
> 
> Only way to overrate him would be to say Hashi > Juubito or some similar level of ridiculousness. Which no one does.
> How to spot a butthurt Sannin fan/someone with no time in the NBD volume 2.0



There are people arguing he > Naruto BSM + Sasuke EMS, which de facto puts him in a position to fight Juubito evenly or semi-evenly.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 3, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Seriously, if you're gonna be a dick


Really dotn see whats so off kilter about What I just posted

But ok


Isaiah13000 said:


> you should at least make sure you're in the right first


I AM right

I legit proved that 4 different ways

Youre blind


Isaiah13000 said:


> I never said that A has to spend plenty of time charging up V2


You said he "had to charge it" which is wrong regardless

Stop goalpost shifting

There is ZERO charge time

Youre wrong


Isaiah13000 said:


> it clearly only takes a few seconds on his end


No it doesnt

Its done instantanously on no less than 3 occassions 

Gave you ALL of them


Isaiah13000 said:


> which is all that is needed for most characters


If you werent lying through your teeth about how long it takes the raikage to go V2?

Yeah youd be right

But youre lying through your teeth, in the face of 3 separate Raikage fights contradicting your opinion no less.


Isaiah13000 said:


> We saw what transpired during the five second interval between Naruto and Pain


Doesnt take the Raikage 5 seconds to go V2 so dumb comparison

Youd be lucky to argue it takes 1 FIFTH of a second 

Open your eyes please


Isaiah13000 said:


> Naruto characters are all quite fast


No shit

Its just teh Raikage is STANDOUT among all of them

He is Kage level LITERALLY BECAUSE OF SPEED AND POWER ALONE

That is a BIG DEAL

And that seems to be lost on LITERALLY ALL OF YOU PEOPLE

The man got to be Kage level literally through jacking his stats and thats it

And you dont think that comes with ANY fucking advantages 

Or worse, just outright ignore those advantages when it suits you


Isaiah13000 said:


> while A is standing there amping his mode up


Literally takes no time at all

One panel to go V2, one panel to blitz

Literally everyone slower than KCM Naruto or without a thought speed technique is now dust


Isaiah13000 said:


> A also has to activate V1 before he can activate V2


NO HE DOESNT

I LEGIT GAVE YOU 2 SEPARATE EXAMPLES WHERE HE GOES BASE TO V2

You. Are. Blind.


Isaiah13000 said:


> The notion that A can instantly go V2 and blitz everyone but Minato and NTCM Naruto before they can even move an inch or cast one jutsu is idiotic


No

The idea youre sitting there arguing against the MAJORITY of A's fights and showings and how they played out is idiotic

And youre lying while you do it


Isaiah13000 said:


> does not support how strong A was portrayed in the actual series at all.


> A was INCHES, I say again, INCHES away from taking THE YELLOW FLASHES HEAD OFF, TWICE, both times this is countered by nothing less than INSTANT TELEPORTATION
> A was INCHES, I say again, INCHES away from taking KCM Narutos head off and was countered with LITERALLY the fastest SHunshin we ever see short of GOD TIER
> A was INCHES, I say again, INCHES away from taking MS Sasukes head off and was countered only by MS precog amped by INSTANT THOUGHT ACTIVATED DEFENSES

Thats 3 SEPARATE INSTANCES ive given you for you to totally ignore like the dishonest poster you are so you can continue wanking your faves

And on the basis of "But A wasnt portrayed that way" of all things while youre STILL wrong

Slap yourself


Isaiah13000 said:


> I really have no interest in discussing Hiruzen with you right now to be honest


That tends to happen when youre wrong and have no evidence and you know it 


Isaiah13000 said:


> there is not a single thing I can say to change your trash opinion on him and I know it


Thats because theres no basis for any of your opinions on the subject bar an outdated part 1 statement thats retconned out the ass, or a DB only line unsupported by anything in the entire manga.


Isaiah13000 said:


> Arguing with you about Hiruzen is definitely a lost cause.


Tends to happen when you argue against the manga


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## SammySam (Apr 3, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> @Hardcore
> @The Death & The Strawberry
> @kokodeshide @UchihaX28 @Isaiah13000 @Hi no Ishi @SammySam @Shark @Artistwannabe @Mad Scientist @Munboy Dracule O'Brian @Ishmael @ThirdRidoku @Bonly @Grimmjowsensei @Turrin @Hussain @Omote
> @ThomasTheCat @Wrecked Baloney
> @Grinningfox



Most overrated? The Sannin
Most underrated are Itachi and Kisame from what I've seen


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## Shazam (Apr 3, 2019)

SammySam said:


> Most overrated? The characters I hate
> Most underrated are my favs from what I've seen



Fixed*


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## SammySam (Apr 3, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Fixed*



? I don't hate the Sannin


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 3, 2019)

Orochibuto said:


> Itachi's wank is so absurd it became an internetwide meme in Naruto


Past tense

His fans are vilified and laughed out of threads in the current forum

Ive kicked more than one to the curb myself


Orochibuto said:


> I dont know how this forum is specifically in the current era.


Now you do


Orochibuto said:


> But historically Itachi wank is by far and above the largest.


Sure

But this isnt history

People need to stop holding opinions from 2008 against posters who are here now


Orochibuto said:


> There are people arguing he > Naruto BSM + Sasuke EMS


He beat a straight up better version of them when he beat Madara with Kurama

Naruto = 50 % of Kurama

EMS Sasuke < EMS Madara as stated

SM hashirama > EMS Madara + 100% Kurama > Naruto/Sasuke

Its simple math, and simple english


Orochibuto said:


> which de facto puts him in a position to fight Juubito evenly or semi-evenly.


No it doesnt

And no they didnt

Naruto and Sasuke needed the help of the entire allied shinobi forces to take Juubito down...Including The Gokage and BM Minato...

And they only got that opportunity because they momentarily overpowered Obito in ONE CLASH and only because he WANTED TO LOSE

Apply all those factors to Hashirama vs Juubito? Yeah Hashi would fight pretty semi-evenly with him.

Put Hashi against Juubito solo and neutrally? He gets ass blasted.

So would Naruto and Sasuke.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 3, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> @Hardcore
> @The Death & The Strawberry
> @kokodeshide @UchihaX28 @Isaiah13000 @Hi no Ishi @SammySam @Shark @Artistwannabe @Mad Scientist @Munboy Dracule O'Brian @Ishmael @ThirdRidoku @Bonly @Grimmjowsensei @Turrin @Hussain @Omote



That's a tough one for me, I haven't been here very long.

I'd say Prime Hiruzen, Bonly's WA Kakashi, potentially Nagato, the immortals, Tobirama, and Tsunade are somewhat underrated.

I'd say The Masters, Zetsu, Orochimaru, Obito, Minato, Kisame and the New Generation (Rock Lee, Shikamaru etc.) are possibly more misrepresented/not well understood. I'd also say Jiraiya is picked on.

Not too sure about Kabuto, Healthy Itachi, Juubito, Kimimaro, The Founders, The Jinchuuriki, and the Gokage in general.

I'd say Madara, Sakura, Hashirama, Hebi Sasuke and Konan are mixed.

Overrated... Maybe sick Itachi, Orochimaru (to be fair, that snake is pretty invincible, pun intended), Suigetsu, and Deidara (though he did show some impressive feats.) Pretty sure a lot of people are overrated to some, and not so much to others.

I'd say Gaara is somewhat well represented, plus A3 (though there's still debate regarding A3/A4), Naruto is generally fine, and Ohnoki is probably okay.

I could be wrong on a lot of these. After all, they're just my subjective view on the consensus, not the actual consensus.


I think @Raikiri19 is underrated.


More intel here


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## Sufex (Apr 3, 2019)

SammySam said:


> ? I don't hate the Sannin


Be wary of engaging shazam, when people call him out on his dumbass posts he is one of the types that pretends to be a epic troll but if you do the same to him he will get triggered, neg you and spam negative ratings on your posts.


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## Shazam (Apr 3, 2019)

SammySam said:


> ? I don't hate the Sannin



Prove it


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## Shazam (Apr 3, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Be wary of engaging shazam, when people call him out on his dumbass posts he is one of the types that pretends to be a epic troll but if you do the same to him he will get triggered, neg you and spam negative ratings on your posts.



Go make some more Sannin threads, its about that time of the day again


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## Sufex (Apr 3, 2019)

Shazam said:


> Go make some more Sannin threads, its about that time of the day again


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## Francyst (Apr 3, 2019)

Shark said:


> Underrated is Hebi Sasuke: everything from his portrayal to feats to DB description is undermined because people dislike him. I could write an essay on this.


Please don't

Reactions: Like 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 3, 2019)

Nice little neg rep message here


Isaiah13000 said:


> *You act like you're right for a fact when you're blatantly spitting in the face of canonical facts. *


This entire thread legit just watched you look at 3 separate fights from the Raikage where he enters V2 INSTANTLY and FROM BASE in 2 of them no less, and then you said, VERBATIM...


Isaiah13000 said:


> A also has to activate V1 before he can activate V2





Isaiah13000 said:


> time charging up V2, it clearly only takes a few seconds on his end


These 2 gems that BLATANTLY DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST ACCUSED ME OF

You are literally delusional

Textbook definition of

Then you followed that with this


Isaiah13000 said:


> The notion that A can instantly go V2 and blitz everyone but Minato and NTCM Naruto before they can even move an inch or cast one jutsu is idiotic


Which A blatantly did on panel fucking twice 

You are literally terrible at this


Isaiah13000 said:


> *You're extremely annoying to argue with.*


Thats probably because you cant prove your stances

But I can

I understand thats frustrating, but thats what happens when you argue headcanon over manga events

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ishmael (Apr 3, 2019)

*Sannin meat lovers*...well really jirajya and tsunade, oro is nice and has good debaters backing him.

Overrated: Anyone that challenges or beats my faves, also any character that gets a good argument backing them up against my fave.

Underrated: Prime hiruzen, jiraiya because people don't overrate him, tsunade because people don't over hype panels.


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 3, 2019)

Shark said:


> Underrated is Hebi Sasuke: everything from his portrayal to feats to DB description is undermined because people dislike him. I could write an *essay* on this.



When you have time, please do make a thread using that essay. I know we would greatly appreciate that contribution. 

If you need cool scans like in my WA Kakashi Portrayal thread, I'd be happy to help out.


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## Bonly (Apr 3, 2019)

Kakashi and Obito are easily the most overrated


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## Tri (Apr 3, 2019)

Kakashi is the most overrated character as of now.


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## King1 (Apr 3, 2019)

Overrated 

Jiraiya 
Tsunade 
Hiruzen
Obito


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## SakuraLover16 (Apr 4, 2019)

Overrated:
A4- He blitzes anyone and their mom before they can even twitch. He is too fast to even be acknowledged.
Delta- I have never seen such hasty placement in my life. She is god tier based off of a fight with a heavily nerfed and jobbing Naruto which many statements support. He even practically leads her the entire fight.

Underrated:
Tsunade- Almost all facets of Tsunade is underrated. Most think she has barely above average durability when we have seen the opposite on panel. Her chakra levels are rated way too low by most. How is anyone going to wear down her Regen when Madara couldn't do it after nearly a whole day went past he even had to make sure she couldn't reach her lower body so she would be unable to heal. Her speed and combat skills are lowballed and people make it seem like she barely has two neurons firing. Panels imply that she was fighting the clones without sustaining injuries but was unable to land effective blows on them unless she put her life on the line.

There is a lot more that can be said however I believe this is enough for now.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Overrated:
> A4- He blitzes anyone and their mom before they can even twitch. He is too fast to even be acknowledged.
> Delta- I have never seen such hasty placement in my life. She is god tier based off of a fight with a heavily nerfed and jobbing Naruto which many statements support. He even practically leads her the entire fight.
> 
> ...



She was the first to fall due to low chakra in the Madara fight, yours is a common misconception/opinion based off of ignorance

She got regenned by Dan.

So no, her chakra isn't anything to write home about.

Above average kage level, sure

But she's not Raikage level. She has no hype OR feats suggesting so.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Also, just because the Raikage can blitz your fav doesn't mean he's overrated

Reactions: Like 1


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 4, 2019)

I'm going to take a stab at it and say that Bee can be overrated at times by being suggested to be able to defeat both MS Sasuke and MS Itachi, the former of which canonically forced Bee to retreat after being depleted of most of his chakra and admitting to MS Sasuke being a strong opponent as stated by the Hachibi and the latter of which can put down Bee with Tsukuyomi as Bee fell for Sharingan Genjutsu twice as per canon and has no knowledge of Tsukuyomi. Bee also poses no counter for Amaterasu as per canon and can be pierced by Itachi's Totsuka blade. How Bee can win against them is beyond me.

Another one is A4 as people believe he can blitz people and knead Bijuu level of chakra necessary for his max speed in a blink of an eye even though that's shown not to be the case and he literally would've killed Minato had that been the case. 

 On the contrary, one that I find underrated plenty of times is Sasori due to losing Chiyo and Sakura despite having circumstances working in their favor and having a jutsu that exceeds Gaara's in both strength, speed, and versatility. Deidara also happened to admit to being inferior to Sasori and Deidara managed to defeat Gaara in an advantageous location while refraining from killing Gaara and entering the battle while low on clay.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

UchihaX28 said:


> I'm going to take a stab at it and say that Bee can be overrated at times by being suggested to be able to defeat both MS Sasuke and MS Itachi, the former of which canonically forced Bee to retreat after being depleted of most of his chakra and admitting to MS Sasuke being a strong opponent as stated by the Hachibi and the latter of which can put down Bee with Tsukuyomi as Bee fell for Sharingan Genjutsu twice as per canon and has no knowledge of Tsukuyomi. Bee also poses no counter for Amaterasu as per canon and can be pierced by Itachi's Totsuka blade. How Bee can win against them is beyond me.
> 
> Another one is A4 as people believe he can blitz people and knead Bijuu level of chakra necessary for his max speed in a blink of an eye even though that's shown not to be the case and he literally would've killed Minato had that been the case.
> 
> On the contrary, one that I find underrated plenty of times is Sasori due to losing Chiyo and Sakura despite having circumstances working in their favor and having a jutsu that exceeds Gaara's in both strength, speed, and versatility. Deidara also happened to admit to being inferior to Sasori and Deidara managed to defeat Gaara in an advantageous location while refraining from killing Gaara and entering the battle while low on clay.



MS Sasuke>Minato
"MS Sasuke was injured despite being healed 50 times"

Bee, if serious, vaporizes Sasuke and gives Itachi a great fight


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## UchihaX28 (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> MS Sasuke>Minato
> "MS Sasuke was injured despite being healed 50 times"
> 
> Bee, if serious, vaporizes Sasuke and gives Itachi a great fight



Doesn't contradict the fact that Bee felt the need to retreat from Sasuke and and admitted that it was because MS Sasuke was strong. Thus, we're led to believe that MS Sasuke was strong enough to force him to retreat. Not only that, but the Viz literally mentions that he's one of the strongest opponents that he's ever fought, so take that as you will. Bee was also entirely serious or else he wouldn't had used Bijuu Mode in the first place or desperately attack Karin, so Sasuke could chop off his limbs in an attempt to escape.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Low Kage/High Jonin level. Hebi Sasuke can't face characters like A, SM Naruto, Gaara, or any of the Sannin like his wankers love to think he can.


Ok I admit Hebi Sasuke is overrated but this is just blatant downplay.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Overrated: Itachi (for obvious reasons, tho the forum has gotten over the absurd wank), A4 is kinda getting overrated, too (he beats the sannin tho, sorry wankers), Hebi Sasuke is kinda getting overrated by 3-4 guys, the Sannin 

Sorry to disappoint everyone who expected the founders in the overrated list 

Underrated: Killer Bee (people sleep on this guy a lot only because he got hit by Amaterasu once), Danzo is kinda underrated, too, Hebi Sasuke when he gets pitted against the Sannin, Jiraya (I mean, people are claiming that he is retarded and is getting killed with arguments like "genjutsu GG" or is losing against 3T Itachi even tho he hasn't shown anything impressive, Itachi still wins with MS tho :3), Mu is underrated. Obito especially his higher forms (Juubito) are underrated, like a lot, Guy really can't beat that guy even tho he bitched a stronger Madara (with help he wouldn't have done much). Sasori is mad underrated only because he lost to his perfect counter, dude deserves more recognition. Sakura (for obvious reasons).


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## blk (Apr 4, 2019)

BSM Naruto + EMS Sasuke seem massively overrated to me.
Several poster act like they fought and defeated Juubito (a legit God tier) fair and square.
While what actually happened in the manga (as noted by @WorldsStrongest) is that they won a single clash, with help, against a weakened Juubito (no tree). From which they linked their chakra and extracted the bijuu (again, with significant help). The wound they gave him was not even close to being lethal, he healed without problems.

In a fight to the death (no chakra link), without help and against full power Juubito, they would get stomped. 

This misconception is seemingly used to justify putting BSM Naruto + EMS Sasuke almost in God tier (to which they don't belong) and to claim they are very much above the founders (which they aren't).


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

blk said:


> BSM Naruto + EMS Sasuke seem massively overrated to me.
> Several poster act like they fought and defeated Juubito (a legit God tier) fair and square.
> While what actually happened in the manga (as noted by @WorldsStrongest) is that they won a single clash, with help, against a weakened Juubito (no tree). From which they linked their chakra and extracted the bijuu (again, with significant help). The wound they gave him was not even close to being lethal, he healed without problems.
> 
> ...


Not to mention that his sword got destroyed because of his weakened spirit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Apr 4, 2019)

Depends on the specidfic placement of acharacter 

for me KCM Naruto- Majority believing he could take down 5 kages 
Obito: Some New gen believing he has any business with guys like Madara 

Kakashi Sasuke, Itachi its nothing new i guess


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## Icegaze (Apr 4, 2019)

Overrated Hebi Sasuke 

Underrated Danzo


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

*Overrated:*
Itachi - people seriously believe Totsuka blitz is a legit way Itachi can beat people several tiers higher than him, heard people saying he can beat EMS Sasuke when even MS Sasuke would give him the time of his life, for some reason people still think he can win against Obito because "HURR DURR HE WAS AFRAID OF HIM" yeah right. Kamui gg. And no, Yata mirror is not omnidirectional, sorry. Also heard that healthy Itachi would be just like Edo itachi (not like Edo has infinite chakra and his eyes don't get damaged). There is a line you have to draw and get over when it comes to Yata. Clearly it isn't invulnerable and has limits as even Itachi runs around preaching that every technique has a weakness. It's absurd to think Yata can tank Indra no Ya or Bijuu Rasenshuriken or something like that. That's no limit fallacy right there.
Sannin - people believe they can beat Nagato, yeah right Call me when the Sannin stomp KCM Naruto and Killer-bee at the same time. Unironically Chibaku Tensei GG. Unless you want to say that they can dish out attacks that rival Futon Rasenshuriken, Yasaka no Magatama and a *BIJUUDAMA, *something that 3 Rashomon by Orochimaru couldn't hold when fired by *4 TAILED NARUTO. *Heck you can even argue that either KCM Naruto or B can both solo the Sannin...

Hebi Sasuke - There are people that say he's on par with SM Naruto, and there are people that say Hebi Sasuke can prep Kirin like its no big deal, I wonder why he didn't use it more than 2 times in the entire series...


Founders - NO THEY CAN'T BEAT JUUBITO, sorry. And no, Shinsu Senju is not on par with RSM Naruto's arsenal Turrin. And no, EMS Madara is not as strong as people want him to be. The sheer fact that he needed Kyuubi to compete with Hashirama is enough proof that Madara is not as strong as him (not to mention he still fucking lost). You also have to be really high to think Madara won't get obliterated by Juubito.

MS Obito - Sorry Maru and Tanto but I don't think he can beat the founders, yeah Kamui is hax and all but "wrap gg" won't be an easy thing for Obito to do to these guys.

*Underrated:*
Naruto and Sasuke. There I said it, I've never seen downplay on such disgusting levels. From Hashirama is RSM Naruto tier, to Adult Sasuke and Naruto being weaker than A4 because Sasuke didn't blitz Kinshinki and the Gokage "kept up" with him fine. Not only that, but because Kurotsuchi was able to dodge one punch of Fused Momoshiki, that means that Momoshiki is weaker than Juubito and by that logic Naruto and Sasuke are even weaker than their KCM/EMS counterparts. Rinnegan Sage mode Madara having a *CHANCE* against Rinnegan Sasuke, Rikduou Naruto and Rinnegan  Sasuke being weaker than 1 eyed Rikudou Madara when both kicked his ass individually several times before he was able to get his other Rinnegan to compete.

Sakura, people really hate her here. People ignoring her feats of monstrous strength (that even surpass Tsunade's mind you) downplaying the poor girl to absurd levels (low kage - jounin tier) and we are talking about WA Sakura mind you. I honestly see her as strong or even stronger than Tsunade, but people disagree because Tsunade is special for some reason????

Both have the same exact moveset (Sakura having better strength feats) but noo, Tsunade can confuse the body with electricity which makes her a tiers stronger even though she used this technique 1 time in the entire series.
Hell she did great against Shin barring that he had Mangekyou Sharingan all over his entire body giving him an absurd range of vision and precog.
Oh I forgot, Tsunade is a sannin, that explains it.

Moving on...Juubito is fucking underrated, I heard people claiming Edo Madara can solo him, Hashirama being able to solo him, both being able to beat him (when none of them can survive a quad juubidama barrage). Heck there is a reason why Sennin Mode 1 eyed Rinnegan Madara is ontop of *TOP-TIER *and *NOT* in Godtier, saying this Madara has a chance against Juubi-jin is straight up trolling IMO. Oh I forgot Gakido can "absorb all the explosions" and Limbo will "kill Obito" but somehow people forget that Juubito has the *RINNEGAN* on his left eye. Here is *RIKUDOU MADARA* *BLATENTLY STATING HE SHOULDN'T USE LIMBO ON OBITO WHILE HE HAS THE RINNEGAN:*

BU-BUT HE SAID THAT HE CAN TAKE ON OBITO!!!!!!!!!! Yeah just because he is Madara doesn't mean he can't be a fucking retard sometimes...

Reactions: Like 2


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## dergeist (Apr 4, 2019)

Overrated: SM Naruto and Asspullnato and his grandson.

Underrated: Hebi Sasuke, Lord soloking and Sakura.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> *Overrated:*
> Itachi - people seriously believe Totsuka blitz is a legit way Itachi can beat people several tiers higher than him, heard people saying he can beat EMS Sasuke when even MS Sasuke would give him the time of his life, for some reason people still think he can win against Obito because "HURR DURR HE WAS AFRAID OF HIM" yeah right. Kamui gg. And no, Yata mirror is not omnidirectional, sorry. Also heard that healthy Itachi would be just like Edo itachi (not like Edo has infinite chakra and his eyes don't get damaged). There is a line you have to draw and get over when it comes to Yata. Clearly it isn't invulnerable and has limits as even Itachi runs around preaching that every technique has a weakness. It's absurd to think Yata can tank Indra no Ya or Bijuu Rasenshuriken or something like that. That's no limit fallacy right there.
> Sannin - people believe they can beat Nagato, yeah right Call me when the Sannin stomp KCM Naruto and Killer-bee at the same time. Unironically Chibaku Tensei GG. Unless you want to say that they can dish out attacks that rival Futon Rasenshuriken, Yasaka no Magatama and a *BIJUUDAMA, *something that 3 Rashomon by Orochimaru couldn't hold when fired by *4 TAILED NARUTO. *Heck you can even argue that either KCM Naruto or B can both solo the Sannin...
> 
> ...


>Itachi not being god-tier

WTF??


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## Trojan (Apr 4, 2019)

Overrated (in no order):
Hebi Sasuke
Kimmimaro
Tobirama
Hashirama
EMS Asspulldara
itachi 
Oro (sometimes?)
Kabuto 
Deidara
Kisame 
DMS Kakashi

-
Underrated: 
Sakura
Tsunade
Jiraiya
Minato
Wind Arc Naruto 
Hiruzen 
Rasa?


on top of my head... :V


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Overrated: Saninn, specially jiraya. Hes a descent mid-high kage but his rabid fanboys wont accept him losing to characters out his class, and they refuse to acknowledge the fact that during the war the masters achieved tasks that at the very least make them equal to the saninn in title and prestige.
Hebi sasuke- though not as prevalent he has a handful of fans confident that he stomps most mid and high kages. Hes low-mid kage to me and only got past that with MS

Underrated: People underrate A4's speed (saninn fans) aside from that i actually think most characters are fairly rated actually. There's always the odd maverick with wacky/ edgy opinions here and there though.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Most underrated : Itachi
Honorable mentions : Kakuzu, Hebi Sasuke, Deidara, Orochimaru

Most overrated : SM Naruto
Honorable mentions : Obito, Minato, Jiraiya, A3


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Most underrated : Itachi


Come on dude, no.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Most underrated : Itachi


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


>





Artistwannabe said:


> Come on dude, no.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


>


Tell me how people underrate Itachi and I might give you the benefit of the doubt.


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## Omote (Apr 4, 2019)

How can A4 be overrated when people have continued the myth of his V2 having a charge up time just so he can't blitz Sannin?


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 4, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Nice little neg rep message here
> 
> This entire thread legit just watched you look at 3 separate fights from the Raikage where he enters V2 INSTANTLY and FROM BASE in 2 of them no less, and then you said, VERBATIM...
> 
> ...


A goes V1 first aganst Minato.

A then goes V2 afterwards and rushes Minato.

A goes V1 first against Sasuke.

A then goes V2 against Sasuke.

A goes from base to V2 against Naruto, but not instantly.

A is blatantly shown charging up into V2 against Madara, whilst Mei casts one jutsu.

So yeah, A has never instantly gone from base into V2. Instantly would mean he immediately goes from base to appearing in front of the person with his fist in their face while being in V2 already. He has objectively never done that, meaning he can't, and usually he goes V1 before he goes V2 first or he has to charge it. It doesn't take a lot of time, but it's enough time for characters to at least cast one fucking jutsu before A blitzes them. Honestly with your ridiculously high opinion of A it makes me wonder how you even rank Onoki above him because based on your logic he would blitz and one-shot him too.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Tell me how people underrate Itachi and I might give you the benefit of the doubt.





Dude stop.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Dude stop.


I knew it was a joke, but your Itachi avatar kinda made me doubtful about it


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I knew it was a joke, but your Itachi avatar kinda made me doubtful about it



So everything you say about Sasuke can be dismissed under the premise that it is a joke ?
Good to know that you think that way.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> So everything you say about Sasuke can be dismissed under the premise that it is a joke ?
> Good to know that you think that way.


I mean the claim that Itachi is underrated has to be a joke.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> So everything you say about Sasuke can be dismissed under the premise that it is a joke ?
> Good to know that you think that way.


I asked you to tell me how Itachi gets underrated, but it seems like you can't even tell me that yourself.


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## Icegaze (Apr 4, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> A goes V1 first aganst Minato.
> 
> A then goes V2 afterwards and rushes Minato.
> 
> ...



Sure mid - high kage can cast one jutsu before being blitz 

However most people A can beat it’s because they simply can’t hit him
Not because he blitz gg
So I gotta agree


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I asked you to tell me how Itachi gets underrated, but it seems like you can't even tell me that yourself.



Going by your join date, you have been arounnd almost a month now. Which means you've read and posted in lots of threads in BD. 
If you are asking me how Itachi is underrated, you are either trolling or absolutely have no idea what you are talking about, in neither case I'll waste my time with you.

Don't you think it is too much of a coincidence that my post got quoted by 2 Sasukefans(who also happen to dislike Itachi) immediately after I posted it. ?
I don't think so.


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 4, 2019)

Icegaze said:


> Sure mid - high kage can cast one jutsu before being blitz
> 
> However most people A can beat it’s because they simply can’t hit him
> Not because he blitz gg
> So I gotta agree


Not according to some people on this forum, sounds to me like A is a high-end high kage who can blitz everyone not named Minato or Naruto.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Going by your join date, you have been arounnd almost a month now. Which means you've read and posted in lots of threads in BD.
> If you are asking me how Itachi is underrated, you are either trolling or absolutely have no idea what you are talking about, in neither case I'll waste my time with you.
> 
> Don't you think it is too much of a coincidence that my post got quoted by 2 Sasukefans(who also happen to dislike Itachi) immediately after I posted it. ?
> I don't think so.


I don't dislike Itachi at all, I just don't wank him to the heavens. He is one of my favorite characters so.....


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Going by your join date, you have been arounnd almost a month now. Which means you've read and posted in lots of threads in BD.
> If you are asking me how Itachi is underrated, you are either trolling or absolutely have no idea what you are talking about, in neither case I'll waste my time with you.
> 
> Don't you think it is too much of a coincidence that my post got quoted by 2 Sasukefans(who also happen to dislike Itachi) immediately after I posted it. ?
> I don't think so.


Why don't you just tell me straight up? Come on... you obviously think Itachi is underrated, isn't it easy to think of reasons why? Infact in my post I clearly stated reasons on why I think Itachi is overrated, I told you I would give you a benefit of doubt, but it seems like you don't want to tell me for some reason...


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## Icegaze (Apr 4, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Not according to some people on this forum, sounds to me like A is a high-end high kage who can blitz everyone not named Minato or Naruto.



Yh that’s just silly talk
Akatsuki won’t have been hyped if A4 could 1 shot 70% of them in 1 blitz 

That’s worse fan fiction than saying jiriaya can keep up with A4


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Why don't you just tell me straight up? Come on... you obviously think Itachi is underrated, isn't it easy to think of reasons why? Infact in my post I clearly stated reasons on why I think Itachi is overrated, I told you I would give you a benefit of doubt, but it seems like you don't want to tell me for some reason...



I don't think anything a Sasuke fan says on anything regarding Itachi can be taken at face value because they are 99.9% of the time are heavily biased against him.Honestly, how can a Sasuke fan not hate Itachi ? It is impossible.

Thanks but no thanks, I don't need to read your post to know that your opinion is 100% false.



Zembie said:


> I don't dislike Itachi at all, I just don't wank him to the heavens. He is one of my favorite characters so.....



During my 12 years in BD, I've become a master of spotting a lie.
Itachi isn't your favorite character, not even close to it.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> During my 12 years in BD, I've become a master of spotting a lie.
> Itachi isn't your favorite character, not even close to it.


*"*He is *one* *of my favorite *characters*"*
12 years and you still can't read? Wow.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


> *"*He is *one* of my favorite characters*"*
> 12 years and you still can't read? Wow.


Who is your favorite character ?


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Who is your favorite character ?


I mean its pretty obvious that it is Naruto.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


> I mean its pretty obvious that it is Naruto.


It is also impossible to have Naruto as your favorite character and not dislike Itachi or have him as one of your favorites.
So again, I spot a lie when I see one.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> It is also impossible to have Naruto as your favorite character and not dislike Itachi or have him as one of your favorites.
> So again, I spot a lie when I see one.



Sure, if you say so.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I don't think anything a Sasuke fan says on anything regarding Itachi can be taken at face value because they are 99.9% of the time are heavily biased against him.Honestly, how can a Sasuke fan not hate Itachi ? It is impossible.
> 
> Thanks but no thanks, I don't need to read your post to know that your opinion is 100% false.


Ahhh, I see... you can't tell me even 1 reason as to why your favourite is underrated.

Just know that this type of logic does not work on me. Unlike you I am atleast trying to give you the benefit of doubt, why would I automatically hate Itachi just because I am a Sasuke fan? I will be honest Itachi is not really one of my favourites but I can't despise him either. Tt's not because I am a Sasuke fan, honestly when I was younger Itachi was my absolute favourite. I don't expect you to believe any of this, but if you state a character is underrated, atleast tell me some reasons as to why he is underrated. Don't just give me that logic (HURR DURR YOU LIKE SASUKE SO YOU OBV HATE ITACHI), If you give me VALID reasons as to why I am wrong I would definitely change my mind.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Sure, if you say so.



Good thing you accepted your fate. I'd hate to put you in an infinite Izanami loop.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I would definitely change my mind.



You love Sasuke with your heart, not your mind.
What difference would it make if I could change your mind ?

Also Protip : People don't change their minds, *unless they want to.*
Not that it would mean anything here.

Know that I don't mean ill. I'm just avoiding a pointless waste of time for both of us.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> You love Sasuke with your heart, not your mind.
> What difference would it make if I could change your mind ?
> 
> Also Protip : People don't change their minds, *unless they want to.*
> ...


Why are you avoiding this like the plague dude, I just want to hear your side of the story...Am I that unreasonable?


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Why are you avoiding this like the plague dude, I just want to hear your side of the story...Am I that unreasonable?


Yes


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Yes


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 4, 2019)

*Overrated:*

Itachi (He’s always been overrated because he’s so loved by the author)

Hashirama (He can’t defeat all of the previous Hokage at once)

Mū (He can’t fly around zapping people with Jinton while he’s invisible)

Hiruzen (His Edo feats aren’t a result of a power inflation that made him suddenly capable of spamming giant elemental blasts over and over)

Chōji (He’s not a Kage-level just because he can turn giant as he needs both Ino and Shikamaru to defeat Asuma)

*Underrated:*

Sakura (People hate her and therefore make no effort to analyse her actual feats)

Mei Terumi (She ain’t no Low Kage level while she can spit out lakes in .0001 seconds) 

Kiba Inuzuka (4.5 in base speed > Then he uses Four Legs Technique to bump up his speed further > He moves even faster again inside of Gatsūga or Wolf Fang)

Prob more I’m forgetting


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Underrated: Kimi, Tobirama, Hebi-Sasuke, Uchiha Shin, Konan, Kuro, Darui, Mifune, Hidan

Overrated; BM / BSM / RSM Naruto

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Underrated: Kimi, Tobirama, Hebi-Sasuke, Uchiha Shin, Konan, Kuro, Darui, Mifune, Hidan
> 
> Overrated; BM / BSM / RSM Naruto


Can you make a thread on why you think RSM naruto = Sm hashirama


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Can you make a thread on why you think RSM naruto = Sm hashirama


I've made a thread about this already actually, too bad nobody was on his side


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## LostSelf (Apr 4, 2019)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Mei Terumi (She ain’t no Low Kage level while she can spit out lakes in .0001 seconds)



I specially agree with this.


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I've made a thread about this already actually, too bad nobody was on his side


link please. I need this comedy gold


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Can you make a thread on why you think RSM naruto = Sm hashirama


No because I don’t think that; I think they are the same Tier.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I've made a thread about this already actually, too bad nobody was on his side


Too bad no one actually had an argument and still dont


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> link please. I need this comedy gold





Turrin said:


> No because I don’t think that; I think they are the same Tier.


Too bad they are not, and the thread I created long ago further proves this.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Too bad no one actually had an argument and still dont


I remember when you argued with Zembie about this, he provided tons of scans to his arguments while you just dismissed everything he said. This is not how you lead a debate.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I remember when you argued with Zembie about this, he provided tons of scans to his arguments while you just dismissed everything he said. This is not how you lead a debate.


Providing scans isn’t the same thing as evidence.

And no your thread didn’t prove anything. The issue is that many people believe their is a large gap between the founders and Juubito which isn’t true


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## Azula (Apr 4, 2019)

*Characters who are strong but are estimated higher*: SM Kabuto, Itachi (less nowadays), Mu (he is not much better than Onoki or his fellow Edo Kages), Raikages, BM Bee (and other 7 Bijuus by extension)

*Characters who are strong but underestimated*: Hiruzen (5 elements and intelligence should be enough to not place him alongside or lower than the likes of Akatsuki but still....), Rasa (Posters deliberately place him lower than his fellow Edo Kages even though he can do everything Gaara can and his gold dust literally defeated Gengetsu)

*Characters who are weak (than most) and are still overestimated*: Akatsuki like Kisame/Kakuzu/Deidara/Sasori (they have no business fighting Sannin for example)


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Providing scans isn’t the same thing as evidence.


It is. While you, don't have any evidence to base your claim as a fact, you might have reasons to believe so, but your evidence falls short.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Providing scans isn’t the same thing as evidence.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> It is. While you, don't have any evidence to base your claim as a fact, you might have reasons to believe so, but your evidence falls short.


Dude I can post scans of anything and claim it’s evidence.... I could post scans of Hashirama wood golem and say see he’s equal to x, it doesn’t mean it’s true. No offense to zembie but that’s exactly what he was doing saying he subjectively believe x feat from Naruto put him far above Hashirama with no argument for why.

As far as my belief system ive articulated them many times. RSM Naruto is still only half Hagaromos power, just like Asura and Hashirama before; and still needs Sasuke the other half to challenge characters on Hagaromos level, which is the next level after Hashirama with Fused Momoshiki, Juubidara, and Kaguya.

We can get into the finer points of this if you want, but you seem pretty closed off to hearing alternative interpretations so yeah..


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude I can post scans of anything and claim it’s evidence.... I could post scans of Hashirama wood golem and say see he’s equal to x, it doesn’t mean it’s true. No offense to zembie but that’s exactly what he was doing saying he subjectively believe x feat from Naruto put him far above Hashirama with no argument for why.
> 
> As far as my belief system ive articulated them many times. RSM Naruto is still only half Hagaromos power, just like Asura and Hashirama before; and still needs Sasuke the other half to challenge characters on Hagaromos level, which is the next level after Hashirama with Fused Momoshiki, Juubidara, and Kaguya.
> 
> We can get into the finer points of this if you want, but you seem pretty closed off to hearing alternative interpretations so yeah..


What you've said is not really true, because base RSM Naruto kicked Madara's ass with 1 Rasenshuriken, 1 Rinnegan Sasuke Kicked Madara's ass 3 times with his Amenotejikara, the only thing they needed each-other for was for the seals. It was pretty much shown that they were individually stronger than Madara before he got his second Rinnegan back. It doesn't matter if they only have a half of Hagoromo's power, because Hashirama has no Rikudou chakra to begin with. We saw how strong Rikudou chakra can make somebody (Kakashi). He can't be God-tier when he can't compete with any god-tiers at all, that's a fact.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> What you've said is not really true, because base RSM Naruto kicked Madara's ass with 1 Rasenshuriken, 1 Rinnegan Sasuke Kicked Madara's ass 3 times with his Amenotejikara, the only thing they needed each-other for was for the seals. It was pretty much shown that they were individually stronger than Madara before he got his second Rinnegan back. It doesn't matter if they only have a half of Hagoromo's power, because Hashirama has no Rikudou chakra to begin with. We saw how strong Rikudou chakra can make somebody (Kakashi). He can't be God-tier when he can't compete with any god-tiers at all, that's a fact.



1. Juubidara without the tree or without both Rinnegan or without the third eye isn’t a full power Juubi Jin. So what we have is Naruto and Sasuke being able to individually fight Juubi Jins not at full power but needing each other’s help to face full power Juubi Jins or other aliens of similar power like Fused Momoshiki

2. Rikudo Chakra isnt necessary to face God Tiers. Hagaromo only gave Naruto a little bit of his chakra to seal Kaguya. The main power up isn’t Hagaromo chakra it’s having chakra of all 9 Bijuu allowing RSM.

3. Hashirama ability to compete comes down to who you believe is God Tier; so tell me that and I’ll tell you why he can or can’t compete


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 4, 2019)

Hard to say when usually the over/underrating of certain characters is only done by a handful of posters.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> 1. Juubidara without the tree or without both Rinnegan or without the third eye isn’t a full power Juubi Jin. So what we have is Naruto and Sasuke being able to individually fight Juubi Jins not at full power but needing each other’s help to face full power Juubi Jins or other aliens of similar power like Fused Momoshiki
> 
> 2. Rikudo Chakra isnt necessary to face God Tiers. Hagaromo only gave Naruto a little bit of his chakra to seal Kaguya. The main power up isn’t Hagaromo chakra it’s having chakra of all 9 Bijuu allowing RSM.
> 
> 3. Hashirama ability to compete comes down to who you believe is God Tier; so tell me that and I’ll tell you why he can or can’t compete


Here:
Kaguya
Fused Momoshiki
Juubidara
RSM Naruto
Rinnegan Sasuke
DMS Kakashi
Juubito/Toneri
8th Gate Guy


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 4, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> So yeah, A has never instantly gone from base into V2


Hes done it literally twice


Isaiah13000 said:


> He has objectively never done that,


Hes done it twice


Isaiah13000 said:


> A goes V1 first against Sasuke.


You finding one instance of a character doing X thing then Y thong doesnt mean X thing is a prerequisite 

That is stupid logic 

This is like me arguing that Naruto needs to go KCM1, KCM2, then activates Kurama mode

Or that Sasuke needs to go through each individual Susannoo layer every time he wants to use PS 

Its beyond dumb

Things CAN progress that way, but they dont NEED to, because there are blatant feats of Naruto and Sasuke jumping DIRECTLY into BM and PS...Kinda like how there are blatant feats of the Raikage jumping from Base to V2 instantly 

No one is falling for your bullshit kiddo 


Isaiah13000 said:


> It doesn't take a lot of time, but it's enough time for characters to at least cast one fucking jutsu


No theres not

Minato and Narutos instances both prove that when he got INCHES away from their faces before they could do jack.

But lets pretend youre not lying and they can get one Jutsu prepped...They are NEVER tagging him with it. So you’re still wrong here.

A would dodge literally whatever it is the same way he did against fucking Amaterasu, and then hes behind them ready to lop their head off with a lateral bolt the EXACT shit he did against Sasuke. And unless you thonk every character in the fucking series has Susanoo, they die. Period. End of story.

So even if I pretend your argument isnt stupid, youre still wrong  


Isaiah13000 said:


> Honestly with your ridiculously high opinion of A it makes me wonder how you even rank Onoki above him


Ohnoki was reacting to V2 A speeds at least mentally 

And ohnoki can fly which makes a speed advantage held by EXCLUSIVELY a close quarters brawler utterly worthless. 

Thats why.

Ohnoki also beats more people than A does to to Jonton being insanely haxxed, its not all based 100% on beating literally everyone below you in a tier list.

And regardless, I have A as a top level Mod fighter and Ohnoki as a low level High one...So I have them real close regardless.

So failed attempt at a rebuttal, combined with a failed attempt at poisoning the well

Noice


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## Hayumi (Apr 4, 2019)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> *Underrated*
> 
> IA Naruto, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Hebi Sasuke, Sakura, Hiruzen, Danzo, Hanzo


 Are u trolling? The sannin AND Hiruzen are easily some of the most wanked, overhyped, overrated characters on this forum ? There is nothing that could make me think otherwise. Everyday I add at least like 5 posts about someone saying the sannin> Itachi and Kisame. Or Oro= Minato. Or hiruzen being God tier. And yes I realize half of those people are trolls or just idiots but it still happens regularly on this forums.  I can agree with Hebi sasuke, sakura. But the rest, specifically the the sannin and Hiruzen are the furthest from underrated as u could get


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> Are u trolling? The sannin AND Hiruzen are easily some of the most wanked, overhyped, overrated characters on this forum ? There is nothing that could make me think otherwise. Everyday I add at least like 5 posts about someone saying the sannin> Itachi and Kisame. Or Oro= Minato. Or hiruzen being God tier. And yes I realize half of those people are trolls or just idiots but it still happens regularly on this forums.  I can agree with Hebi sasuke, sakura. But the rest, specifically the the sannin and Hiruzen are the furthest from underrated as u could get


But Hiruzen *IS* Godtier, no need to deny it child.

It's time to accept the truth, Hiruzen is Rikudou Sennin.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Here:
> Kaguya
> Fused Momoshiki
> Juubidara
> ...


Wait so do you think all of these guys are the same Tier because no way is RSM Naruto in the same Tier as Kaguya, Fused Momo , or Juubidara 3rd eye. As he needed Sasukes help and then some to beat characters on this level

Disregarding that we have Toneri whose difficult to measure lore wise as he faces an older more trained and with the other half of the Kyushu Naruto; and then their is the BSM vs RSM debate in that movie. But if we go by sheer feats (cutting the moon) RSM Naruto (from the valley of the end) gets wrecked as he has nothing comparable to that. 

So that really leaves Juubito. A character who lost to an ISO weaker then the one Hashirama defeated; and that a weaker Edo Madara wasn’t confident he could beat with Hashirama Senjutsu chakra or what was left of it after their battle. Juubito is also not on the same level as the above characters.


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## Hayumi (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> But Hiruzen *IS* Godtier, no need to deny it child.
> 
> It's time to accept the truth, Hiruzen is Rikudou Sennin.


  dont trigger me anymore then I already am Artist-kun


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Wait so do you think all of these guys are the same Tier because no way is RSM Naruto in the same Tier as Kaguya, Fused Momo , or Juubidara 3rd eye. As he needed Sasukes help and then some to beat characters on this level
> 
> Disregarding that we have Toneri whose difficult to measure lore wise as he faces an older more trained and with the other half of the Kyushu Naruto; and then their is the BSM vs RSM debate in that movie. But if we go by sheer feats (cutting the moon) RSM Naruto (from the valley of the end) gets wrecked as he has nothing comparable to that.
> 
> So that really leaves Juubito. A character who lost to an ISO weaker then the one Hashirama defeated; and that a weaker Edo Madara wasn’t confident he could beat with Hashirama Senjutsu chakra or what was left of it after their battle. Juubito is also not on the same level as the above characters.


This is why I put them in order????

Not to mention, Obito was defeated because his resolve was weakened and the tailed beast synchronized with Naruto, and I honestly don't believe Madara can win against Juubito,


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> dont trigger me anymore then I already am Artist-kun


I am just stating facts


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 4, 2019)

My overrated/underrated 

Overrated

Sannin- People just constantly put them against fighters they cant deal with. And most often just argue from disbelief that “hurr durr theres no way they cant do AT LEAST one thing against anyone and everyone!” when they blatantly cant. And in the minds of every sannin fan, that “one thing” is always the PERFECT thing to beat the other fighter 10 times out of 10 in one shot...So basically its just hypocritical nonsense that is based on willfully ignoring massive advantages the Sannin have against an opponent, a big one lately is speed. Cats just argue that because of LITERALLY JUST THEIR RENOWN, the sannin cant get blitzed. 

Underrated 

Mei- mainly in 1v1s, otherwise shes nerfed by friendly fire. But in 1v1s, Mei beats most mid tiers with acod mist  thats not an exaggeration either. The thing melted Susanoo ribcage real damn fast, and no ones that durable outside of like A3.


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## Hayumi (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I am just stating facts


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


>


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## King1 (Apr 4, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> Are u trolling?


No he isn’t. He actually believes what he said


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 4, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Hes done it literally twice
> 
> Hes done it twice
> 
> ...



Mei had time to form handseals and perform Yōton in the same time that A activated his Raiton Shroud. 

And KS Arc Sasuke has already sprinted several metres forward in the time that A activated his shroud.

So it is possible to pull off a guard or technique before he can cover the distance and blitz.

Reactions: Like 2


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## SakuraLover16 (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> She was the first to fall due to low chakra in the Madara fight, yours is a common misconception/opinion based off of ignorance


False. She was one of the main attackers who healed and gave chakra to the other kage while also healing herself she used the last of her chakra to save the same Kage with her shunshin and by batting away the fire style which we see her pump her arms with a lot of chakra. Not to mention the feat of her protecting her village by giving up all her chakra.

What I mean to say is her moved are way more chakra taxing then the other Kages but she supplements this by having a large amount and being able to precisely control it. Unless you believe that the Kage didn't greatly benefit from Tsunade. I'm sure that Madara remarked that the other Kage would have been dead long ago without Tsunade.


SammySam said:


> She got regenned by Dan.


That's not how the seal works by the way he gave her chakra yes but not enough to completely refill her seal. It is stated that any excess chakra the user has can be used to reform the seal.


SammySam said:


> Above average kage level, sure
> 
> But she's not Raikage level. She has no hype OR feats suggesting so.


She is way above average Kage level. Her student has as much chakra as a RSM her seal is finer so Tsunade at least has biju levels with her seal.


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## Hayumi (Apr 4, 2019)

King1 said:


> No he isn’t. He actually believes what he said


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 4, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Hes done it literally twice
> 
> Hes done it twice
> 
> ...


 Mei literally performed a jutsu while A went V2 you can see that in the scan I posted. Killer B and Tsunade had time to commentate on A going V2 before he tried to blitz Naruto. C had time to analyze and comment on A going V2 against Sasuke.

A going V2 in a panel or two doesn't mean it's done instantly. Minato and Naruto both either blitzed or could've blitzed V2 A right after he used his speed and Minato fought V2 A and Killer B simultaneously many times so his speed is clearly not an issue for them. V2 clearly has a charge time that can be exploited. There is literally no legitimate argument you can make to counter the examples me and others have posted.


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## Grinningfox (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Can you make a thread on why you think RSM naruto = Sm hashirama


Don’t  encourage him


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## Tanto (Apr 4, 2019)

Itachi is also underrated


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> This is why I put them in order????
> 
> Not to mention, Obito was defeated because his resolve was weakened and the tailed beast synchronized with Naruto, and I honestly don't believe Madara can win against Juubito,


So basically if you agree those characters are stronger this comes down to you think RSM Naruto is an entire tier above Hashirama because he can beat Juubito?

Okay then let’s focus on Juubito.

You say Sasuke and Naruto ISO won due to Obito having a wavering heart, okay maybe that gave them the edge, but their ISO is still much weaker then Madara so that shouldn’t matter.

And Madara saw the same abilities and feats from Juubito that you did and concluded he could win. Madara isn’t an idiot so we need to take his words in to consideration; and they tells us Juubito isn’t that much stronger then the founders if at all.

Or to recap I’m being hated on because I don’t think wavering heart made a multi tier difference in strength and I believe Madara knows the limits of his own power well enough that he doesn’t believe he can beat some a tier ahead of him in strength...


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> So basically if you agree those characters are stronger this comes down to you think RSM Naruto is an entire tier above Hashirama because he can beat Juubito?
> 
> Okay then let’s focus on Juubito.
> 
> ...


That is all fine and dandy until you look into the actual matchup. There is literally no way this Madara can beat Juubito, or atleast I can't think of a way Madara can pull something like that off. As for Juubito, the entire premise of the sword of Nunuboku is that it represents Obito's will, and it being broken shows that his will was broken by Naruto. They also needed the whole shinobi allience to pull off the tailed beats from Obito, not to mention that the only reason they came out in the first place was because Naruto had the chakra of the Bijuu. Neither Hashirama nor Madara can pull off something like this while fighting Juubito since neither have bijuu chakra.


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> ISO is still much weaker then Madara so that shouldn’t matter.


Hold up, according to your logic Sage mode is a x10 boost across the board right?

So lets say sasukes PS armour is more or less as strong madaras (maybe slightly weaker)

We then have BM naruto and 50% kuruma. Shouldn't the boost sage mode gives make them stronger in your own logic? Unless You're saying raw kuruma is x5 stronger than Full kyubi avatar naruto


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> That is all fine and dandy until you look into the actual matchup. There is literally no way this Madara can beat Juubito, or atleast I can't think of a way Madara can pull something like that off. As for Juubito, the entire premise of the sword of Nunuboku is that it represents Obito's will, and it being broken shows that his will was broken by Naruto. They also needed the whole shinobi allience to pull off the tailed beats from Obito, not to mention that the only reason they came out in the first place was because Naruto had the chakra of the Bijuu. Neither Hashirama nor Madara can pull off something like this while fighting Juubito since neither have bijuu chakra.


The way Madara would beat Juubito is empowering his P-Susanoo with Hashirama leftover Senjutsu and overpowering Juubito. If you think he can’t overpower him then your probably overrating Juubito or underrating the founders which is the entire problem here

And I can buy that wavering heart tipped the scales, but it would need to have made a multi-tier difference for your premise to hold up. And the burden of proof is on you to show that considering their is no statement whatsoever that Juubito became tiers weaker in that clash.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Hold up, according to your logic Sage mode is a x10 boost across the board right?
> 
> So lets say sasukes PS armour is more or less as strong madaras (maybe slightly weaker)
> 
> We then have BM naruto and 50% kuruma. Shouldn't the boost sage mode gives make them stronger in your own logic? Unless You're saying raw kuruma is x5 stronger than Full kyubi avatar naruto


SM is a x10 boost to Narutos Base chakra

Base Narutos chakra in the IA Arc was said to be x4 Kakashi (so x40 with SM)even if they increased during the war arc Yang Kurama is x100 Kakashi potentially more.

So no SM amp isn’t making up for the loss of 50% Kurama, and that’s obvious by the fact that SM is portrayed as a far lesser power up compared to BM.

And Sasuke Susanoo isn’t slightly weaker then Madara it’s likely far weaker as it matches Naruto BM which is 50% Kyuubi while Madara matched 100% Kyuubi


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> The way Madara would beat Juubito is empowering his P-Susanoo with Hashirama leftover Senjutsu and overpowering Juubito. If you think he can’t overpower him then your probably overrating Juubito or underrating the founders which is the entire problem here
> 
> And I can buy that wavering heart tipped the scales, but it would need to have made a multi-tier difference for your premise to hold up. And the burden of proof is on you to show that considering their is no statement whatsoever that Juubito became tiers weaker in that clash.


At this point you can just make a thread about Sage Edo Madara vs Juubito

As for the other point, It was shown that his will was wavering (he imagined himself as a hokage) and they still needed the whole alliance and bijuu chakra to be able to pull the bijuu from Obito. And honestly it's only 1 clash, all other times Obito beat the crap out of them several times.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> At this point you can just make a thread about Sage Edo Madara vs Juubito
> 
> As for the other point, It was shown that his will was wavering (he imagined himself as a hokage) and they still needed the whole alliance and bijuu chakra to be able to pull the bijuu from Obito. And honestly it's only 1 clash, all other times Obito beat the crap out of them several times.


I don’t care to make a thread; because the answer is already given to us by Madara. So ether give a reason Madara was lying or just concede the point

If Juubito lost so much strength from his will wavering it would have been stated and the alliance was needed to pull the Bijuu out, but ISO already shows greater strength or at least strength in the same ball park when it overwhelmed Obito in that clash.

This is what I mean by lack of an argument. You not agreeing with a direct statement for reasons; and saying that Juubito wavering heart dropped him tiers, cause that just seems right to you; aren’t arguments. It’s basicslly you just saying you don’t have a real answer to the actual evidence I’m giving you but don’t accept it cause it doesn’t feel right. That’s cool, but maybe stopping hating on the person who has real evidence supporting their premise rather then something just feeling right


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I don’t care to make a thread; because the answer is already given to us by Madara.
> 
> If Juubito lost so much strength from his will wavering it would have been stated and the alliance was needed to pull the Bijuu out, but ISO already shows greater strength or at least strength in the same ball park when it overwhelmed Obito in that clash.


Not everything has to be stated, it was shown that he gave up on fighting them.

It's not more so lying. Madara is just underestimating Obito


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Not everything has to be stated, it was shown that he gave up on fighting them.
> 
> It's not more so lying. Madara is just underestimating Obito


No it wasn’t; they clashed head on.

What has Juubito shown that Madara could be underestimating; when Madara saw the exact same feats that you did?


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Base Narutos chakra in the IA Arc was said to be x4 Kakashi (so x40 with SM)even if they increased during the war arc Yang Kurama is x100 Kakashi potentially more.
> 
> So no SM amp isn’t making up for the loss of 50% Kurama, and that’s obvious by the fact that SM is portrayed as a far lesser power up compared to BM.



You misunderstand or are forgetting the Sage mode boots not only apply to naruto, but to the 50% kurama as well.


Turrin said:


> SM is portrayed as a far lesser power up compared to BM.


but curse mark isnt?


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> No it wasn’t; they clashed head on.
> 
> What has Juubito shown that Madara could be underestimating; when Madara saw the exact same feats that you did?


Not exactly, for the entirety of the Juubito fight Madara was busy fighting Hashirama, saying he saw everything is not really true.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> She was one of the main attackers



That would be Onoki
Ay also kept constant pressure alongside Onoki

Her performance is more comparable to Gaara and Mei as far as attack relevance.

Her support was a beyond valuable asset though, without her the Kage wouldn't have gotten as far as they did without question.

But as far as attacking? Naw, she didn't do a single meaningful thing without Ay, Onoki or Mei to save or assist her.



SakuraLover16 said:


> False



Absolutely not, Dan regenned her.

She was outright passed out.



SakuraLover16 said:


> What I mean to say is her moved are way more chakra taxing then the other Kages but she supplements this by having a large amount and being able to precisely control it.



This is just a lie, or at least a very arguable point.

Karin says when Ay flexes his V2 that he's at Bijuu levels, he's literally, for lack of a better term, oozing absurd levels of chakra.



SakuraLover16 said:


> I'm sure that Madara remarked that the other Kage would have been dead long ago without Tsunade.



And I'd agree with him

Her being an invaluable asset doesn't translate to her having the largest amount of chakra, it just blatantly doesn't.

Onoki was actually remarked by Madara as the problem among the Gokage, not Tsunade and not Ay either.

He was by far the most valuable on the team, Madara confirms it. That's not to say her feats should be ignored.

Without her support the Gokage would've died early on due to low chakra.

Her refilling an old man's reserves and post-jin gaara isn't some top tier feat



SakuraLover16 said:


> That's not how the seal works by the way he gave her chakra yes but not enough to completely refill her seal. It is stated that any excess chakra the user has can be used to reform the seal.



K well your headcanon denial doesn't trump what happened

She was passed out, or nearly so, the seal fading etc.

When she was restored by Dan, her seal appeared less faint and she was restored.

Tsunade doesn't have the lowest chakra among the Gokage, that would be either Mei or Gaara (maybe Onoki due to age), but the Raikage has far above and beyond what the collective Gokage have chakra wise five fold EASILY.


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Not exactly, for the entirety of the Juubito fight Madara was busy fighting Hashirama, saying he saw everything is not really true.


What could he have missed; all of Juubito attacks were massive and clearly visible


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> You misunderstand or are forgetting the Sage mode boots not only apply to naruto, but to the 50% kurama as well.
> 
> but curse mark


No they only apply to Narutos Base. Kurama itself is not entering SM. I don’t know where you got that impression, but it’s not even possible for Kurama to enter SM due to needing to balance his chakra with natural energy.

Considering Kurama was able to draw in all the natural energy in the entire world with 1/3 of his chakra as a clone and not turn to stone; their is no way in hell the tiny amount of natural energy Toad SM uses in comparsion could balance out 50% Kurama chakra.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> What could he have missed; all of Juubito attacks were massive and clearly visible


Not quite, although his most destructive attacks were visible (quad bijuudama) (god tree) I doubt he was watching the entire fight between him and Naruto/Sasuke/Minato/Tobirama. So it's not like he knows exactly what Obito is physically capable of.


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Considering* Kurama was able to draw in all the natural energy in the entire world *with 1/3 of his chakra as a clone





Turrin said:


> No they only apply to Narutos Base. *Kurama itself is not entering SM*


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


>


Drawing in natural energy isn’t the same thing as entering SM


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Drawing in natural energy isn’t the same thing as entering SM


Tell me, what is Biju sage modes 3 headed Ashura avatar? why does it have sage markings?


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Not quite, although his most destructive attacks were visible (quad bijuudama) (god tree) I doubt he was watching the entire fight between him and Naruto/Sasuke/Minato/Tobirama. So it's not like he knows exactly what Obito is physically capable of.


So you think at no point he saw Obito physical movements? And its Obito physical speed that makes him unbeatable for Madara, despite the fact that Sasuke kept up with Obito movements with the same Choke Tome as Madara?

Come on bruv


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Tell me, what is Biju sage modes 3 headed Ashura avatar? why does it have sage markings?


What Sage markings? Also why are we discussing RSM in a discussion about SM. RSM it’s unclear how it works


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> So you think at no point he saw Obito physical movements? And its Obito physical speed that makes him unbeatable for Madara, despite the fact that Sasuke kept up with Obito movements with the same Choke Tome as Madara?
> 
> Come on bruv


I think @Android said it better than I could have. Madara was just overconfident, he was the same way when he was fighting RSM Naruto and Sasuke, and naturally he got his ass handed to him.


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> What Sage markings? Also why are we discussing RSM in a discussion about SM. RSM it’s unclear how it works


When BSM naruto creates his construct is the SM boost not applied to the construct?


----------



## SakuraLover16 (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> That would be Onoki
> Ay also kept constant pressure alongside Onoki
> 
> Her performance is more comparable to Gaara and Mei as far as attack relevance.


Did you read that chapter this is really false. Ohnoki backpacked Ay. Ays attacks and speed were boosted by Ohnoki. Tsunade punched a hole through Madara. She also broke through his ultimate defense something a boosted Ay could not do. So no her performance was not comparable to Gaara and Mei.


SammySam said:


> But as far as attacking? Naw, she didn't do a single meaningful thing without Ay, Onoki or Mei to save or assist her.


More like no one could do anything without support. Tsunade is at least able to break the Susanoo with her strength.


SammySam said:


> Absolutely not, Dan regenned her.
> 
> She was outright passed out.


No he gave her chakra. Stamina and Chakra are not mutually exclusive.


SammySam said:


> This is just a lie, or at least a very arguable point.
> 
> Karin says when Ay flexes his V2 that he's at Bijuu levels, he's literally, for lack of a better term, oozing absurd levels of chakra.


No it isn't a lie do all biju have the same amount of chakra?


SammySam said:


> Her being an invaluable asset doesn't translate to her having the largest amount of chakra, it just blatantly doesn't.


I never said she had the largest amount.


SammySam said:


> Onoki was actually remarked by Madara as the problem among the Gokage, not Tsunade and not Ay either.


He said they would have been dead long ago if not for her and said Ohnoki was the most dangerous or something like that. It doesn't mean the others weren't just that he was the most. I mean he could have been talking about experience or his will power as well though.


SammySam said:


> K well your headcanon denial doesn't trump what happened
> 
> She was passed out, or nearly so, the seal fading etc.
> 
> When she was restored by Dan, her seal appeared less faint and she was restored.


Not denial or head canon read up on the seal.


SammySam said:


> Tsunade doesn't have the lowest chakra among the Gokage, that would be either Mei or Gaara (maybe Onoki due to age), but the Raikage has far above and beyond what the collective Gokage have chakra wise five fold EASILY.


No...just no...

The scale of Jutsu that the other Kage have shown isn't a little amount of chakra even if they aren't quite Biju level


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I think @Android said it better than I could have. Madara was just overconfident, he was the same way when he was fighting RSM Naruto and Sasuke, and naturally he got his ass handed to him.


Madara wasn’t over confident against Sasuke and Naruto because he just solod both of them easily and didn’t know they both just got the mother of all power ups for Hagaromo or the nature of their new powers at all.

This is absolutely incomparable to Obito whose feats he literally just watched and still thought he could beat. 

And your claiming Obito is not only still going to win but is a tier ahead of him....


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> When BSM naruto creates his construct is the SM boost not applied to the construct?


Yeah it’s not applied because boost is happening to Naruto Base chakra since that’s what he’s balancing with natural energy to enter SM.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Madara wasn’t over confident against Sasuke and Naruto because he just solod both of them easily and didn’t know they both just got the mother of all power ups for Hagaromo or the nature of their new powers at all.
> 
> This is absolutely incomparable to Obito whose feats he literally just watched and still thought he could beat.
> 
> And your claiming Obito is not only still going to win but is a tier ahead of him....


Okay then, in what reliable way can this Madara defeat Obito? He does not have the bijuu's chakra to be able to pull off the ten tails, he can't TNJ Obito into making his resolve waver (yes this is the entire reason he lost, don't @ me).


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Okay then, in what reliable way can this Madara defeat Obito? He does not have the bijuu's chakra to be able to pull off the ten tails, he can't TNJ Obito into making his resolve waver (yes this is the entire reason he lost, don't @ me).


He overpowers him with Senjutsu enhanced Susanoo. He doesn’t need Obito heart to waver because he’s stronger the. Narutos ISO.

Like I said you just don’t believe this because you underrating the founders


----------



## Trojan (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


>


Turrin keeps jumping from one scenario/statement to the other whenever he is cornered to fit his agenda.
With his Kaguya-level chakra he will debate you into oblivion. When you can't continue any further, he will say he won.

Thank you...


----------



## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Turrin keeps jumping from one scenario/statement to the other whenever he is cornered to fit his agenda.
> With his Kaguya-level chakra he will debate you into oblivion. When you can't continue any further, he will say he won.
> 
> Thank you...


Pretty much this.


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> He overpowers him with Senjutsu enhanced Susanoo. He doesn’t need Obito heart to waver because he’s stronger the. Narutos ISO.
> 
> Like I said you just don’t believe this because you underrating the founders


Bruh are you serious? So you accept what Madara said but when it's blatantly showed that Obito gave up on fighting you take that as a nonfactor? "He overpowers him" then what? He has no reliable way to pull out the Bijuu from him, come on dude. The conditions were perfect for Naruto to win.


----------



## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Bruh are you serious? So you accept what Madara said but when it's blatantly showed that Obito gave up on fighting you take that as a nonfactor? "He overpowers him" then what? He has no reliable way to pull out the Bijuu from him, come on dude. The conditions were perfect for Naruto to win.


Lmao at you thinking that you can win an argument with Turrin


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Turrin keeps jumping from one scenario/statement to the other whenever he is cornered to fit his agenda.
> With his Kaguya-level chakra he will debate you into oblivion. When you can't continue any further, he will say he won.
> 
> Thank you...





Zembie said:


> Lmao at you thinking that you can win an argument with Turrin



Thanks for reminding me of this, i legit forgot it was one of my rules not to engage turrin because theres no point. i just have a final question to ask him though.




Turrin said:


> Yeah it’s not applied because boost is happening to Naruto Base chakra since that’s what he’s balancing with natural energy to enter SM.



Say a hypothetical fight; here Two narutos are fighting and its BSM vs BM naruto. First one to knocked out of  their kyubi mode loses, you're saying it ends in a draw, eveytime?


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Bruh are you serious? So you accept what Madara said but when it's blatantly showed that Obito gave up on fighting you take that as a nonfactor? "He overpowers him" then what? He has no reliable way to pull out the Bijuu from him, come on dude. The conditions were perfect for Naruto to win.


He obviously has a way to pull out the Bijuu as he said he was going to take the power of Juubi from Obito.

Or was he lying about that?


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> He obviously has a way to pull out the Bijuu as he said he was going to take the power of Juubi from Obito.
> 
> Or was he lying about that?


Oh he may not be lying, but unless you tell me a way of him actually pulling that off then I won't be agreeing.


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Thanks for reminding me of this, i legit forgot it was one of my rules not to engage turrin because theres no point. i just have a final question to ask him though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No BSM wins because it’s 50% Kurama + Narutos Base chakra x 10 due to SM, and SM senescing enhancing speed.

While  BM Naruto is just 50% Kyuubi


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> No BSM wins because it’s 50% Kurama + Narutos Base chakra x 10 due to SM, and SM senescing enhancing speed.
> 
> While  BM Naruto is just 50% Kyuubi



Alright man i guess we just think in fundamentally different ways then lets leave it there


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Oh he may not be lying, but unless you tell me a way of him actually pulling that off then I won't be agreeing.


Madara can absorb the chakra of the Juubi from Obito with HG realm and then he’d have all the chakra of the Bijuu and could pull the Juubi out of Obito as the alliance did


----------



## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Lmao at you thinking that you can win an argument with Turrin



Repeats same arguments over and over, even after having been refuted 1000 times
"Ur annoying dude im done"

"Concession accepted"

All Sannin supporters with their 300 IQ's are next level debaters.


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Alright man i guess we just think in fundamentally different ways then lets leave it there


So to clarify you think that BM is being amped x10, so BSM is equivalent to 5 100% Kyuubi in power? And that’s more sensible then what I said


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> Repeats same arguments over and over, even after having been refuted 1000 times
> "Ur annoying dude im done"
> 
> "Concession accepted"
> ...


"Manga panels are not proof" -Turrin


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Madara can absorb the chakra of the Juubi from Obito with HG realm and then he’d have all the chakra of the Bijuu and could pull the Juubi out of Obito as the alliance did


And what makes you think that Obito is going to stand there doing nothing while Madara is trying to pull off something like this?


----------



## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> And what makes you think that Obito is going to stand there doing nothing while Madara is trying to pull off something like this? Not to mention Obito has the Rinnegan too.


What do you mean he is not going to stand there? Did you forget that he is fighting the founders???? He just accepts his fate and gets vaporized.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

BSM Naruto isn't significantly, if at all, above BM Naruto imo, for whatever u guys are talking about.

SM Isn't a god tier buff, it's not gonna give a significant buff to what is essentialyl a god mode (BM)


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> So to clarify you think that BM is being amped x10, so BSM is equivalent to 5 100% Kyuubi in power? And that’s more sensible then what I said


That literally not what i said you dolt, I started this conversation by stating i was going via *your scaling* you use to justify your CS= Sm bullshit just to see how you thought
and now you try and turn it around to me to make me look as retarded as you are.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


> "Manga panels are not proof" -Turrin



"All feats can be interpreted differently" 

Next level IQ man, Sannin supporters IQ can't even be measured by conventional IQ tests, they're legit the Sheldon Cooper's of the NBD.


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> BSM Naruto isn't significantly, if at all, above BM Naruto imo, for whatever u guys are talking about.
> 
> SM Isn't a god tier buff, it's not gonna give a significant buff to what is essentialyl a god mode (BM)


If you follow the conversation I wasnt saying it is. I was trying to use turinns claimed 10x boost in a hypothetical


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> And what makes you think that Obito is going to stand there doing nothing while Madara is trying to pull off something like this?


Because he will be beaten down

Madara whole plan was to beat Obito down to weaken him first and then take the Bijuu

I’ve literally answered all your points now as you’ve asked and still you can’t even admit that my reasoning isn’t crazy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Because he will be beaten down
> 
> Madara whole plan was to beat Obito down to weaken him first and then take the Bijuu
> 
> I’ve literally answered all your points now as you’ve asked and still you can’t even admit that my reasoning isn’t crazy


----------



## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> If you follow the conversation I wasnt saying it is. I was trying to use turinns claimed 10x boost in a hypothetical



There's no 10x boost

There's not even a 2x boost.

Essentially its only purpose in BM (BSM) is to grant NE to his attacks to damage JJs and their techs.

There's no power increase, durability increase or speed change.

If it is, it's so small to the point of being unnoticeable


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> That literally not what i said you dolt, I started this conversation by stating i was going via *your scaling* you use to justify your CS= Sm bullshit just to see how you thought
> and now you try and turn it around to me to make me look as retarded as you are.


Your the one saying SM amps the entire Kurama avatar dude; and the Databook says it’s x10 increase to power....


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Because he will be beaten down
> 
> Madara whole plan was to beat Obito down to weaken him first and then take the Bijuu
> 
> I’ve literally answered all your points now as you’ve asked and still you can’t even admit that my reasoning isn’t crazy


It is, you can't give me a legit reason as to why he's going to get beaten down. Just because his resolve was weakened by Naruto doesn't mean the same would happen with Madara, do you want to say that BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke are godtier when working together? Not to mention Obito is times faster than Madara.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Your the one saying SM amps the entire Kurama avatar dude; and the Databook says it’s x10 increase to power....



"By fans for fans" by the way.

"Just as canon as manga"

"We take the DB over Kishi's words"

"We are the elite debaters around here"

"Crap everyone thinks we're jokes"


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Your the one saying SM amps the entire Kurama avatar dude; and the Databook says it’s x10 increase to power....





SammySam said:


> There's no 10x boost
> 
> There's not even a 2x boost.
> 
> ...



You said it doesn't amp it at all, going by your claimed boost i was trying to figure out what you meant. By amp i mean enables for sage jutsu, which are stronger on the whole (or for it to be effective on tsb's). or else what would be the fucking point of naruto having to sit still for?

The databooks also claim that hebi sasuke is stronger than the akatsuki and that chunin choji is a 4 in ninjutsu while low kage Kakashi is a 5. Does this mean that factually choji is close to kakashi the master who knows over 1000 jutsu?

You take these stats too literally; especially the databooks where they contradict the manga and half the time kishi doesnt remember what hes writing at the time. This isn't dragon ball Z dude, naruto isnt about comparing linear power levels, its about the sum of its parts making up more than the whole. Why do you think there is just an emphasis on match-ups, environmental advantages, combination jutsu, strategies ect? Its why debating it is intresting because theres a realm of possiblities


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Your the one saying SM amps the entire Kurama avatar dude; and the Databook says it’s x10 increase to power....




Also Do you not see the benefit of Narutos Kyubi mode being able to actually use massively powerful jutsu, strategise and enable more utility and the advantages it gives against a mindless raging animal like at all?


----------



## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> (or for it to be effective on tsb's). or else what would be the fucking point of naruto having to sit still for?



For it to have an effect on TSB's/Juubi Jins.

That's it.



FoboBemo said:


> The databooks also claim



Literally anyone who falls on the Databooks as the foundation of their argument isn't a debater worth addressing.

They're actual jokes

Don't validate their existence with a response.


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> You said it doesn't amp it at all, going by your claimed boost i was trying to figure out what you meant. By amp i mean enables for sage jutsu, which are stronger on the whole (or for it to be effective on tsb's). or else what would be the fucking point of naruto having to sit still for?
> 
> The databooks also claim that hebi sasuke is stronger than the akatsuki and that chunin choji is a 4 in ninjutsu while low kage Kakashi is a 5. Does this mean that factually choji is close to kakashi the master who knows over 1000 jutsu?
> 
> You take these stats too literally; especially the databooks where they contradict the manga and half the time kishi doesnt remember what hes writing at the time. This isn't dragon ball Z dude, naruto isnt about comparing linear power levels, its about the sum of its parts making up more than the whole. Why do you think there is just an emphasis on match-ups, environmental advantages, combination jutsu, strategies ect? Its why debating it is intresting because theres a real of possiblities


The manga contradicts itself too; but nothing contradicts the SM is x10 boost; nothing.. so we need to go with that. And it fits the story line as well


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Also Do you not see the benefit of Narutos Kyubi mode being able to actually use massively powerful jutsu, strategise and enable more utility and the advantages it gives against a mindless raging animal like at all?


Yeah which is why I consider BM Naruto above just Yang Kurama, but is he above 100% Kyuubi hell no


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> It is, you can't give me a legit reason as to why he's going to get beaten down. Just because his resolve was weakened by Naruto doesn't mean the same would happen with Madara, do you want to say that BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke are godtier when working together? Not to mention Obito is times faster than Madara.


His resolve doesn’t need to be weakened because Madara will be stronger with Hashirama SM.

Can you give me a legit reason why he wouldn’t be beaten down, despite Madara believing he could do so?


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> "By fans for fans" by the way.
> 
> "Just as canon as manga"
> 
> ...


Please do me a favor and look up who the author of the data book is and come back once you realize it’s Kishimoto


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> His resolve doesn’t need to be weakened because Madara will be stronger with Hashirama SM.
> 
> Can you give me a legit reason why he wouldn’t be beaten down, despite Madara believing he could do so?


Because I don't see Madara having anything in his arsenal that can rival a Juubi Jinchuriki? His PS slashes get dodged or straight up tanked, his mokuton gets negged by gudodamas. Do you actually think Obito can't pull the win here, are you serious?


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Yeah which is why I consider BM Naruto above just Yang Kurama, but is he above 100% Kyuubi hell no


OK man.  carry on


Artistwannabe said:


> Because I don't see Madara having anything in his arsenal that can rival a Juubi Jinchuriki? His PS slashes get dodged or straight up tanked, his mokuton gets negged by gudodamas. Do you actually think Obito can't pull the win here, are you serious?


Have you mentioned juubito sealing madara inside and just blowing him the fuck up?


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Have you mentioned juubito sealing madara inside and just blowing him the fuck up?


I think I mentioned it before


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Because I don't see Madara having anything in his arsenal that can rival a Juubi Jinchuriki? His PS slashes get dodged or straight up tanked, his mokuton gets negged by gudodamas. Do you actually think Obito can't pull the win here, are you serious?


Sasuke with the same Choke Tome as Madara was able to hit Juubito, so his attacks aren’t being dodged.

You assume his slashes get tanked or dodged becaus your underrating his power and the Manga is telling you that your wrong with Madara directly stating he can beat down Obito.

I believe Madara ether wins or it’s very close; as there is no way he could possibly be an entire tier off from Juubito and believe he could win... it’s just  denial of canon to believe that


----------



## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> OK man.  carry on
> 
> Have you mentioned juubito sealing madara inside and just blowing him the fuck up?


And you carry on believes Base Naruto + SM is equivalent or greater to 50% Kurama....


----------



## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Sasuke with the same Choke Tome as Madara was able to hit Juubito, so his attacks aren’t being dodged.
> 
> You assume his slashes get tanked or dodged becaus your underrating his power and the Manga is telling you that your wrong with Madara directly stating he can beat down Obito.
> 
> I believe Madara ether wins or it’s very close; as three is no way he could possibly be an entire tier off from Juubito and believe he could win... it’s just  denial of canon to believe that


But we only have Madara's statement to judge the whole situation, personally I think Juubito can nuke him into oblivion and unless Madara has some hax jutsu we don't know about then I really doubt he can pull a w


----------



## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> And you carry on believes Base Naruto + SM is equivalent or greater to 50% Kurama....


Ok. keep putting words im my mouth troll. 


Artistwannabe said:


> I think I mentioned it before


What did he reply?


----------



## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Please do me a favor and look up who the author of the data book is and come back once you realize it’s Kishimoto



Do me a favor and don't quote me because I find pretty much every opinion you express ridiculous.

"By fans for fans"

"Kishi wrote the entire thing word for word OBVIOUSLY"

"feats are subjective and open to intepretation"

It's weird, Sannin supporters are actually a meme around here, like nobody takes them seriously, the only ones who take them seriously are other Sannin supporters, everyone else just points and laughs

Your time is done, move aside


----------



## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> But we only have Madara's statement to judge the whole situation, personally I think Juubito can nuke him into oblivion and unless Madara has some hax jutsu we don't know about then I really doubt he can pull a w



Madara was clearly going to be a threat to Juubito.

Nothing Juubito showed leads me to believe he was BEATING Madara.

Pushing him hard as hell sure, but nah, Kishi clearly indicated that Madara could kill Juubito, and that's all I need.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> Madara was clearly going to be a threat to Juubito.
> 
> Nothing Juubito showed leads me to believe he was BEATING Madara.
> 
> Pushing him hard as hell sure, but nah, Kishi clearly indicated that Madara could kill Juubito, and that's all I need.


I am very interested to see as how Madara survives a Quad Bijuudama barrage.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I am very interested to see as how Madara survives a Quad Bijuudama barrage.



Preta path.

Massive scale CT to gravitate the Juubidama's to it, CT is on panel shown to be effective against Bijuudama.

Straight tanks it with Hashirama SM+PS.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> Preta path.
> 
> Massive scale CT to gravitate the Juubidama's to it, CT is on panel shown to be effective against Bijuudama.
> 
> Straight tanks it with Hashirama SM+PS.


"Preta path"
Takes time to absorb a jutsu, thinking preta is this god-realm jutsu is a no-limit fallacy

"Massive scale CT"
Juubidamas and Bijuudamas are on a whole different scale, not to mention that once the barrier is on it won't matter where the jutsus go.

"Straight tanks it with Hashirama SM+PS."


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

L


Artistwannabe said:


> But we only have Madara's statement to judge the whole situation, personally I think Juubito can nuke him into oblivion and unless Madara has some hax jutsu we don't know about then I really doubt he can pull a w


Look man, Obito strongest nuke he showed was the one he used in the barrier; Madara saw that and still thinks he’ll win. So we know your underestimating Madara by saying he’d be nuked.

He doesn’t need a Hax Jutsu, he’d just beat him down. We’ve never seen Juubito take on something that strong and win; and the only thing close to that power that he did take on (albeit still much weaker) beat him down in the form of ISO. I know your going to say wavering heart again but that isn’t making a massive difference.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Preta path
> Takes time to absorb a jutsu, thinking preta is this god-realm jutsu is a no-limit fallacy



The Rinnegan was actually portrayed as a god tier technique.

Wielded by a god (Madara) there's no reason to believe that something as trivial as quad Bijuudama should bother him.



Artistwannabe said:


> Massive scale CT, Juubidamas and Bijuudamas are on a whole different scale, not to mention that once the barrier is on it won't matter where the jutsus go.



Doesn't matter, principal is the same.

The Juubidama's will gravitate toward the CT core/s in the atmosphere and detonate there.

Or Madara legit lolflys out of the barrier.



Artistwannabe said:


> Straight tanks it with Hashirama SM+PS.



I see no reason to believe that Madara's PS with Hashirama's cells/SM isn't at least 4x more durable than Naruto's BM avatar, which tanked a direct Juubidama beam with no problems.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Ok. keep putting words im my mouth troll.
> 
> What did he reply?


You think BSM Naruto is stronger then the Kyuubi right?


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> The Rinnegan was actually portrayed as a god tier technique.
> 
> Wielded by a god (Madara) there's no reason to believe that something as trivial as quad Bijuudama should bother him.
> 
> ...


Madara flies out of the barrier... 
And yet this Naruto couldn't even hope to tank an attack like this btw.
So Preta path can absorb anything and every rinnegan user is immortal? Good to know, Sasuke roflstomps Naruto then.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

O


SammySam said:


> Do me a favor and don't quote me because I find pretty much every opinion you express ridiculous.
> 
> "By fans for fans"
> 
> ...


Do you not know what it means to be an “author” of something?


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> L
> 
> Look man, Obito strongest nuke he showed was the one he used in the barrier; Madara saw that and still thinks he’ll win. So we know your underestimating Madara by saying he’d be nuked.
> 
> He doesn’t need a Hax Jutsu, he’d just beat him down. We’ve never seen Juubito take on something that strong and win; and the only thing close to that power that he did take on (albeit still much weaker) beat him down in the form of ISO. I know your going to say wavering heart again but that isn’t making a massive difference.


But I also don't believe that he would get beaten down, Obito never really showed signs of damage until his heart was wavered, that's my whole point. And I also think Madara can't do anything to Obito's Bijuudama barrage, yes he is Edo and will regen but that means he would be vulnrable for Obito to attack using gudodamas so he cannot regenerate. It does make a difference like it or not. I guess we may never agree on this.


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

Gotta admit it @Turrin  You managed to derail the thread, light up 5 pages and spawned 2/3 spite threads, entertaining to say the least.

You have my respect


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> And yet this Naruto couldn't even hope to tank an attack like this btw.



Because Madara>>>>>War Arc BM/BSM Naruto



Artistwannabe said:


> So Preta path can absorb anything and every rinnegan user is immortal? Good to know, Sasuke roflstomps Naruto then.



Naruto has his own God tier shit to combat the Rinnegan (RSM=Rikudo Rinnegan)

The strength of the Rinnegan is relative to the strength of the wielder. It's why Pain took a bit to absorb Jiraiyas Massive Rasengan

Then Nagato blatantly has better preta feats, as well as Rinnegan feats in general

And why Obitos outer path manipulation is better than Nagatos

And it goes on as Rinnegan wielders get more powerful


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## Trojan (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Gotta admit it @Turrin  You managed to derail the thread, light up 5 pages and spawned 2/3 spite threads, entertaining to say the least.
> 
> You have my respect


I was about to post something more or less related... 

On one hand, I want to throw him in ignore list since I think his posts are too stupid that I am physically getting dumber looking at them.

On the other hand, I find seeing everyone "debating him" and he debates them back into oblivion to be rather entertaining/funny...

I am not sure what to do...


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Hussain said:


> I was about to post something more or less related...
> 
> On one hand, I want to throw him in ignore list since I think his posts are too stupid that I am physically getting dumber looking at them.
> 
> ...



I keep him off ignore for the sheer "wow factor"

But you're not much better, SM Jiraiya=SM Kabuto is almost as bad


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> Because Madara>>>>>War Arc BM/BSM Naruto
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't agree that he could absorb it, nor tank it. Because we've never seen this Susanoo you are speaking of and we can't know how it compares to anything really. Not to mention that if you think absorption is that strong than Sasuke could absorb every attack Naruto dishes out and that includes the big bijuudama Momoshiki threw at the chunnin exams.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> But I also don't believe that he would get beaten down, Obito never really showed signs of damage until his heart was wavered, that's my whole point. And I also think Madara can't do anything to Obito's Bijuudama barrage, yes he is Edo and will regen but that means he would be vulnrable for Obito to attack using gudodamas so he cannot regenerate. It does make a difference like it or not. I guess we may never agree on this.


Look if you stop assuming wavering heart made Obito an entire tier weaker then don’t you think everything makes sense? If ISO can damage Obito then so could Madara with Hashirama Senjutsu.

There’s no reason for Madars statement to be false other then you believing wavering heart made an entire tier difference.


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## Trojan (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> I keep him off ignore for the sheer "wow factor"
> 
> But you're not much better, SM Jiraiya=SM Kabuto is almost as bad


I am sorry Troy-sama. I feel ashamed for falling short of your expectations... 


Edit:
still tho, comparing me to Turrin is a bit too harsh, don't you think?


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Look if you stop assuming wavering heart made Obito an entire tier weaker then don’t you think everything makes sense? If ISO can damage Obito then so could Madara with Hashirama Senjutsu.
> 
> There’s no reason for Madars statement to be false other then you believing wavering heart made an entire tier difference.


How can I be assuming something that is blatantly shown to be a fact???


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I don't agree that he could absorb it, nor tank it.



Agree to disagree then.



Artistwannabe said:


> Because we've never seen this Susanoo you are speaking of and we can't know how it compares to anything really.



We've never seen Madaras Perfect Susanoo?

All we do is give him the enhanced durability that Hashi cells/SM give him, and we know that SM can directly effect Susanoo, unlike BM avatars given Sasuke's feats



Artistwannabe said:


> Sasuke could absorb every attack Naruto dishes out and that includes the big bijuudama Momoshiki threw at the chunnin exams.



No, because Momoshiki was portrayed far above Sasuke alone.

And yes, Sasuke could absorb narutos attacks.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> Agree to disagree then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait what? Momoshiki was far weaker than both Naruto and Sasuke, heck even the gokage could keep up with him

I still see Madara tanking this attack as a stretch honestly.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

Hussain said:


> I am sorry Troy-sama. I feel ashamed for falling short of your expectations...



It's okay, my name's Sam though.



Hussain said:


> comparing me to Turrin is a bit too harsh, don't you think?



Meh, you both Stonewall without evidence on a lot of things

I will admit he does it for more topics though


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## Sufex (Apr 4, 2019)

SammySam said:


> We've never seen Madaras Perfect Susanoo?
> 
> All we do is give him the enhanced durability that Hashi cells/SM give him, and we know that SM can directly effect Susanoo, unlike BM avatars given Sasuke's feats


Im sorry brother but you are high if you think madara is tanking something that was going to wipe out Naruto + sasukue+ all the hokage + All the gokage in one shot


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Look if you stop assuming wavering heart made Obito an entire tier weaker then don’t you think everything makes sense? If ISO can damage Obito then so could Madara with Hashirama Senjutsu.
> 
> There’s no reason for Madars statement to be false other then you believing wavering heart made an entire tier difference.



If you blatantly ignore canon, don't you think everything makes sense? -Turrin.


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## SammySam (Apr 4, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Im sorry brother but you are high if you think madara is tanking something that was going to wipe out Naruto + sasukue+ all the hokage + All the gokage in one shot



Well, I haven't smoked yet today.

But nah, I just believe Kishi painted a pretty clear, Madara is at least on that level.

He doesn't make blatantly untrue statements unless there's a clear motive for lying.
And Madara didn't have a motive to lie.
He actually thanked Naruto and Co for saving him the trouble of doing it himself.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


> If you blatantly ignore *headcanon,* don't you think everything makes sense? -Turrin.


Edited for accuracy


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Edited for accuracy


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


>


Is that the emoji for someone whose butthurt?


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 4, 2019)

I’m confused as to why Naruto/Sasuke combo is being compared to Founders power level in comparison to Juubito when Juubito didn’t just fight MC’s he also fought against 3 other Hokage level characters and the final attack was also aided by most of the alliance without the help of the 3 other Kage Naruto/Sasuke don’t even get to the point where they could land the final blow on a Juubito using that scenario to represent an argument of Founders= Juubito would be like saying SM Naruto = Itachi , Bee , Naruto because he also beat Pain but in that battle he had help of Kakashi , Chouji , Chouza , Hinata , Minato .


As far as Juubito vs Founders I do think there is a gap but not as wide as people think Juubi Jins represent a higher level on the alien Tier same with RSM Naruto he would certainly beat them 9/10 times but it won’t be a complete utter stomp.


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Is that the emoji for someone whose butthurt?


Yea I usually use it when someone is delusional.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Yea I usually use it when someone is delusional.


Wow you must use it a lot for yourself then...


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 4, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> I’m confused as to why Naruto/Sasuke combo is being compared to Founders power level in comparison to Juubito when Juubito didn’t just fight MC’s he also fought against 3 other Hokage level characters and the final attack was also aided by most of the alliance without the help of the 3 other Kage Naruto/Sasuke don’t even get to the point where they could land the final blow on a Juubito using that scenario to represent an argument of Founders= Juubito would be like saying SM Naruto = Itachi , Bee , Naruto because he also beat Pain but in that battle he had help of Kakashi , Chouji , Chouza , Hinata , Minato .
> 
> 
> As far as Juubito vs Founders I do think there is a gap but not as wide as people think Juubi Jins represent a higher level on the alien Tier same with RSM Naruto he would certainly beat them 9/10 times but it won’t be a complete utter stomp.


Yeah that's the reason people pretty much consider Juubito as the lowest god-tier


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## Zembie (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Wow you must use it a lot for yourself then...


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> I’m confused as to why Naruto/Sasuke combo is being compared to Founders power level in comparison to Juubito when Juubito didn’t just fight MC’s he also fought against 3 other Hokage level characters and the final attack was also aided by most of the alliance without the help of the 3 other Kage Naruto/Sasuke don’t even get to the point where they could land the final blow on a Juubito using that scenario to represent an argument of Founders= Juubito would be like saying SM Naruto = Itachi , Bee , Naruto because he also beat Pain but in that battle he had help of Kakashi , Chouji , Chouza , Hinata , Minato .
> 
> 
> As far as Juubito vs Founders I do think there is a gap but not as wide as people think Juubi Jins represent a higher level on the alien Tier same with RSM Naruto he would certainly beat them 9/10 times but it won’t be a complete utter stomp.


Because Naruto and sasuke overpowered him on their own with ISO (well they had a bit of help from the rookies), the alliance was only used to pull out their Bijuu


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Because Naruto and sasuke overpowered him on their own with ISO (well they had a bit of help from the rookies), the alliance was only used to pull out their Bijuu



Yeah but that’s like saying Naruto overpowered Kakuzu in their final clash , how did they get to that place if not for the other Hokage they would’ve been dead and the other rookies who are all close to jounin level would be equivalent to another high powered Hokage .


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Because Naruto and sasuke overpowered him on their own with ISO (well they had a bit of help from the rookies), the alliance was only used to pull out their Bijuu



Also if Founders start of in the exact same position Juubito started getting attacked by all 4 Hokage how would they fair ?


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## Alita (Apr 4, 2019)

Underrated- Kisame, sometimes sakura, sometimes A3 and A4, Boruto era gokage, sometimes delta, sometimes kakuzu, WA Karin, sometimes boruto and Sarada, and Gai.

Overrated- Jiraiya in general and to a lesser extent the other sannin, hiruzen in general, sm kabuto without edo sometimes, sasori, base minato sometimes, sometimes sm Naruto, sometimes juubito.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> Also if Founders start of in the exact same position Juubito started getting attacked by all 4 Hokage how would they fair ?


Not as welll, but nobody says the founders are equal to the guy in Raw Power, they are more skilled then him and don’t fall and entire tier behind in raw power


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> Yeah but that’s like saying Naruto overpowered Kakuzu in their final clash , how did they get to that place if not for the other Hokage they would’ve been dead and the other rookies who are all close to jounin level would be equivalent to another high powered Hokage .


Doesn’t change the fact that they wielded power around Juubito level in that moment


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 4, 2019)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Mei had time to form handseals and perform Yōton in the same time that A activated his Raiton Shroud.


You mean when the Gokage were all coordinating?

As stated by A in this very panel? He literally LETS her lead?

This is BEYOND fucking silly.


Godaime Tsunade said:


> And KS Arc Sasuke has already sprinted several metres forward in the time that A activated his shroud.


A had his RnY shroud active before he saw Sasuke actually...He activates it here to punch through the floor. As noted by Darui.

So youre wrong there.

Youre also wrong about something else.

A made no move at all in that scene 

Youre acting like Sasuke was able to fucking blitz him or something 

He CHOOSE to not move while his bodyguards handled it. 

Youre being UNBELIEVABLY dishonest and acting as if A was unable to do anything when nothing suggests that.

Meanwhile I can grab scans where he needed an INSTANT to be at full V2 speed and able to move at it and pressure KCM Naruto of all people.

Yet youre trying to sell me on teh notion he needs a third of a damn chapter to do anything in V1?

Trash argument


Godaime Tsunade said:


> it is possible to pull off a guard or technique before he can cover the distance and blitz.


Half of the arguments I see attempting to "counter" As speed are unbelievably dumb.

These are 2 of them.


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Doesn’t change the fact that they wielded power around Juubito level in that moment



They overall did not by the very fact Hashirama who is slightly stronger than them combined admitted inferiority they were both saved multiple times Obito took attacks from Naruto that wouldn’t have been possible w/o Tobirama’s aid. I do think Founders like Juubito are apart of the alien Tier but there is a gap to where Hashirama has zero chance of beating Juubito straight up and it makes sense if Madara is already as strong as Juubito then what the heck did he sacrifice his life for .


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## Omote (Apr 4, 2019)

NBD still in denial of A4's BBC pounding their favorite characters into oblivion 

There's nothing wrong with getting left in the dust by power creep, even Gai and Bee got left in the dust

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Not as welll, but nobody says the founders are equal to the guy in Raw Power, they are more skilled then him and don’t fall and entire tier behind in raw power



Sure but the skill level they have isn’t enough to match the sheer fire power that is Juubito .


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 4, 2019)

For the thread people’s opinion’s are all over the place at this point 

Underrated : IA Naruto , Sakura , Mifune , Asuma , Boruto , Konohmaru, Hiruzen , Kakuzu , Gaara 

Overrated: Jiraiya(Base) , Gengetsu , Mu , Ei(3) , Gai(7th-8th Gates) , Killer Bee ,


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> Sure but the skill level they have isn’t enough to match the sheer fire power that is Juubito .


If you think Juubito wins I don’t disagree I just believe they are the same Tier.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> They overall did not by the very fact Hashirama who is slightly stronger than them combined admitted inferiority they were both saved multiple times Obito took attacks from Naruto that wouldn’t have been possible w/o Tobirama’s aid. I do think Founders like Juubito are apart of the alien Tier but there is a gap to where Hashirama has zero chance of beating Juubito straight up and it makes sense if Madara is already as strong as Juubito then what the heck did he sacrifice his life for .


They definitely did; and Hashirama admitted inferiority as an Edo to a stronger Juubito that wasn’t missing tree


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 4, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> Are u trolling? The sannin AND Hiruzen are easily some of the most wanked, overhyped, overrated characters on this forum ? There is nothing that could make me think otherwise. Everyday I add at least like 5 posts about someone saying the sannin> Itachi and Kisame. Or Oro= Minato. Or hiruzen being God tier. And yes I realize half of those people are trolls or just idiots but it still happens regularly on this forums.  I can agree with Hebi sasuke, sakura. But the rest, specifically the the sannin and Hiruzen are the furthest from underrated as u could get



The Sannin as a whole aren’t overrated but ironically Jiriaya has become very overrated even more than Itachi these days, but it’s his Base form that is a huge problem people literally think he’s A Mid Kage Level w/o SM and it just isn’t true .


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 4, 2019)

Turrin said:


> They definitely did; and Hashirama admitted inferiority as an Edo to a stronger Juubito that wasn’t missing tree



He said he’s stronger than me , not stronger than me in my current state , that statement has no meaning if he’s only stronger than a weakened Hashirama .


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> He said he’s stronger than me , not stronger than me in my current state , that statement has no meaning if he’s only stronger than a weakened Hashirama .


Me = Hashirama as he is now; that’s obvious

Yes it does as it shows none of the Edo Hokage could take Juubito


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## The hidden mist god (Apr 4, 2019)

Gengetsu , Tobirama, and Mei temari are rather underated. Hashirama is super overated and people forget that he beat madara when madara didn't have the rinnegan. Madara is also overated because he became powerful by ising hashiramas cells. That is like Kakashi using his borrowed Sharingan

Reactions: Like 1


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## X III (Apr 4, 2019)

I don’t think anybody’s particularly overrated or underrated. But what is annoying are wank trains. Like when people accuse a character of being overrated or underrated because a single poster or two (which may even be trolls) because they have an outrageous opinion. It’s just dumb. I mean somebody thinks freaking Hebi Sasuke is overrated because a few guys think he can beat SM Naruto, and what makes it worse is that this same person thinks Hebi Sasuke is Jonin level.. Just stop with the dumb wank accusations imo.


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## SakuraLover16 (Apr 5, 2019)

I remember back in the day when people on similar levels was actually debatable instead of what they are now. Now it's he is too fast to react to. She's too slow. He won't be touched. Blitz before they even twitch!!! Jinton blitz gg!!!


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## Omote (Apr 5, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I remember back in the day when people on similar levels was actually debatable instead of what they are now. Now it's he is too fast to react to. She's too slow. He won't be touched. Blitz before they even twitch!!! Jinton blitz gg!!!




If person B doesn't have any feats or statements backing up that they can react to person A..

Are they really on the same level?


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 5, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> You mean when the Gokage were all coordinating?
> 
> As stated by A in this very panel? He literally LETS her lead?
> 
> This is BEYOND fucking silly.



You miss the point, when A activated his Raiton Shroud Mei had already made the seal. He allowed her to shoot her Yōton first because if he’d tried flickering at Madara in that time he’d have been at risk of being covered in lava. The point is that in the same time that he bumped up his shroud she was already casting the technique, meaning that in the time he needs to activate it his opponents are capable of moving. 



> A had his RnY shroud active before he saw Sasuke actually...He activates it here to punch through the floor. As noted by Darui.



Nah if you look at the last page of the previous chapter you can see Sasuke moving forward as A activates his shroud.



> A made no move at all in that scene
> 
> Youre acting like Sasuke was able to fucking blitz him or something
> 
> ...



To be wrong I would have to have insinuated that A made any kind of movement, which I didn’t do. You’ve for some reason asserted this and gotten extremely butthurt about it lol.

The action sequence is = A activating his raiton shroud / Opponent has chance to move > A flickering at them


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## ~Kakashi~ (Apr 5, 2019)

Omote said:


> There's nothing wrong with getting left in the dust by power creep, *even Gai *and Bee got left in the dust



This isn't very youthful of you


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## Santoryu (Apr 5, 2019)

X III said:


> I don’t think anybody’s particularly overrated or underrated. But what is annoying are wank trains. Like when people accuse a character of being overrated or underrated because a single poster or two (which may even be trolls) because they have an outrageous opinion. It’s just dumb. I mean somebody thinks freaking Hebi Sasuke is overrated because a few guys think he can beat SM Naruto, and what makes it worse is that this same person thinks Hebi Sasuke is Jonin level.. Just stop with the dumb wank accusations imo.



There is a vocal section of the forum that thinks Hebi Sasuke can beat MS Kakashi too.
So it's more transparent than you're making out.

But I know which guy you're referring to


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## SakuraLover16 (Apr 5, 2019)

Omote said:


> If person B doesn't have any feats or statements backing up that they can react to person A..
> 
> Are they really on the same level?


I think about other matchups like Tsunade blitzing Shizune and Kabuto or Naruto beating A3 by reaction instead of speed, Gaara blocking Amaterasu, Dodai reacting to A3.

Speed is widely inconsistent this doesn't mean that we ignore it but that is not the only thing that should be considered in a fight which is what most do. It's easy to say blitz or someone is too fast but slower people on similar levels sometimes higher and lower react to faster things.


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