# Kenshin vs Zoro



## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

This is a battle between both of the swordsman's way of fighting/technique/moves. Their physical abilities are the same (for the sake of this match). Both keep their battle experience. Who has the stronger style? This is blood lusted Battousai with his choice of basic sword, same goes for Zoro


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

rzoro has way more skill then kenshin. i cant think of one swordsman with more skill then zoro


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Mihawk? I don't see Zoro focusing on skill and sowrdsmanship too much. He uses strength speed agility and reflexes. In this fight, all of Zoro's physical abilities are given to kenshin as well.


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 16, 2007)

I'd actually say Kenshin has more _skill_ than Zoro.

Not that it matters, Zoro's enough faster and stronger that Kenshin's skill won't help him any.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> I'd actually say Kenshin has more _skill_ than Zoro.
> 
> Not that it matters, Zoro's enough faster and stronger that Kenshin's skill won't help him any.



Notice the physical abilities being a non factor in this fight?


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Notice the physical abilities being a non factor in this fight?



Yeah, that being the case I'd say Kenshin should win.  Kinda an abstract fight though.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Yeah, that being the case I'd say Kenshin should win.  Kinda an abstract fight though.



The purpose of this is was to show that zoro isn't in the same leaque as a real swordsman. Just because someone can swing swords around doesn't make them a swordsmaster. OP has a really crappy way of showing this


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## Grandmaster Kane (Sep 16, 2007)

kenshin rapes

if this was a real battle zoro would thou


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

This is a battle of swordsmastery, not the battle of bad power scaling characters


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## Pein (Sep 16, 2007)

well kenshin would win


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## Purgatory (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> rzoro has way more skill then kenshin. i cant think of one swordsman with more skill then zoro



Vergil Sparda. Technically, he's not a swordsman, but he has incredible Iaijutsu in which he mixes with his devil strength. A very awesome combination, indeed. And for your information, Kenshin DOES have more skill than Zoro.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Corrupt Vergil said:


> Vergil Sparda. Technically, he's not a swordsman, but he has incredible Iaijutsu in which he mixes with his devil strength. A very awesome combination, indeed. And for your information, Kenshin DOES have more skill than Zoro.



Strength/Speed =/= swords skill


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

Kenshin has more skill.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

i dont see why everyone says kenshin. zoro has awesome skill, and he comes up with new techniques all the time. somone like kuwabara, hiei, ichigo, dont rely on skill, but only power. but somone like zoro, is a true swordsman.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Zoro uses strength and speed to overcome his opponents. And those techniques rely on that


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## Purgatory (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Strength/Speed =/= swords skill



I only said he likes to combine the two. Look at his sword skills in the Prologue of the Special Edition. He doesn't even use Yamato most of the time.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Zoro uses strength and speed to overcome his opponents. And those techniques rely on that



just because he happens to be a fucking beast, means he has no skill? i think this is just your biased opinion. he has used many sword techniques, and shows great skill. 


now guys like, hiei, kuwabara, and ichigo, are just hack and slash. but zoro? no he is skill


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Corrupt Vergil said:


> I only said he likes to combine the two. Look at his sword skills in the Prologue of the Special Edition. He doesn't even use Yamato most of the time.



You mean where he speedblitzes the red demon things?


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> just because he happens to be a fucking beast, means he has no skill? i think this is just your biased opinion. he has used many sword techniques, and shows great skill.
> 
> 
> now guys like, hiei, kuwabara, and ichigo, are just hack and slash. but zoro? no he is skill



Proof of moves that don't totally rely on speed/strength? Being a beast in strength/speed has no relevance to sword skills. Thats just the result of bad power scaling


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Proof of moves that don't totally rely on speed/strength? Being a beast in strength/speed has no relevance to sword skills. Thats just the result of bad power scaling



like i said, just because he is a fucking beast, means he has no skill? 

yes he is strong as hell, yes he is very fast, yes he has skill. why cant he have all of them? because you want kenshin to be better? but kenshin cant be better?


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> like i said, just because he is a fucking beast, means he has no skill?
> 
> yes he is strong as hell, yes he is very fast, yes he has skill. why cant he have all of them? because you want kenshin to be better? but kenshin cant be better?



What? How does strength and speed = skill? Where has zoro shown amazing swords skill? Thats like saying that because luffy is crazy strong/fast he is an expert martial artist


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## Grandmaster Kane (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> just because he happens to be a fucking beast, means he has no skill? i think this is just your biased opinion. he has used many sword techniques, and shows great skill.
> 
> 
> now guys like, hiei, kuwabara, and ichigo, are just hack and slash. but zoro? no he is skill



fixed


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## Gunners (Sep 16, 2007)

Kenshin would win, his sword skill is better. I would go as far as to say that swordsmen in our world are more skillfull than Zoro. Zoro has a lot of power on his side which is mistaken for skill.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> What? How does strength and speed = skill? Where has zoro shown amazing swords skill? Thats like saying that because luffy is crazy strong/fast he is an expert martial artist



for one, his satrryyu style, takes skill. for two, i never said strenght and speed=skill. i said he has strenght, speed, and skill. and i asked you why cant he have them all? because you make it out to be, like if you have power and speed, then you cant have skill, which sounds stupid.

umm, the fact that he trained in a dojo since he was a kid, with real swordsman, and trains all the time until this day. plus all his techniques he uses, looks pretty skillfull to me. 

tell me, what makes kenshin mroe skill ful then zoro?


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> fixed



hiei has never shown that much skill. he usually just uses his speed and slices hi opponents up, and mainly uses his flames and spirit energy for technique. unlike zoro, actually has sword techniques.


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## mystictrunks (Sep 16, 2007)

Why are we using a weaker version of Kenshin?


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## SoulTaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Lets not pretend like Zoro has no skill,the fact that he fights at the level he does with a fucking sword in his mouth is nothing short of amazing.The thing is that Kenshin fights foes with physical abilities on par with himself and as such he overcomes them with skill.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

SoulTaker540 said:


> Lets not pretend like Zoro has no skill,the fact that he fights at the level he does with a fucking sword in his mouth is nothing short of amazing.The thing is that Kenshin fights foes with physical abilities on par with himself and as such he overcomes them with skill.



well zoro has never faced anyone who he had to actually overcome with skill, besides mihawk. but mihawk is mihawk, and zoro will surpass him in due time.

anyone who says zoro doesnt have good skill is fucking retarded, yeah i said it. i dont care.


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 16, 2007)

1 word: Amakakeru Ryu no hirameki


okay, maybe its more than one word.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

i really dont see how zoro couldnt counter any of kenshins moves. putting them on even stats, zoro would win pretty easy, with his style. he will block anything kenshin throws, then counter with his spinning tornadoe technique, send kenshin spinnign in the air, then he will finish him with asura, or just a basic stab.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> for one, his satrryyu style, takes skill. for two, i never said strenght and speed=skill. i said he has strenght, speed, and skill. and i asked you why cant he have them all? because you make it out to be, like if you have power and speed, then you cant have skill, which sounds stupid.
> 
> umm, the fact that he trained in a dojo since he was a kid, with real swordsman, and trains all the time until this day. plus all his techniques he uses, looks pretty skillfull to me.
> 
> tell me, what makes kenshin mroe skill ful then zoro?


 
The fact that he fought and won with the most skillful swordsman of his world. Do you think that you get amazing kenjutsu from a basic dojo? And he trained mostly strength in there. Then he fought with people, but non of them were real "swordsman". Swordsman rely mostly on their skill, then on their speed, and then on strength. OP does it backwards strength, then speed then dead last is skill. When you use strength, you don't need skill that much. This is the way of the brawler, not a swordsman. Zoro is basically a brawler except instead of using fists, he uses swords and has some basic knowledge.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> i really dont see how zoro could counter any of kenshins moves. putting them on even stats, zoro would loose pretty easy, with his style. he will not be able to block anything kenshin throws, then counter with his spinning tornadoe technique which would be useless, send kenshin spinnign in the air, then he will finish him with asura, or just a basic stab in his imagination, where in reality he will be cut in to pieces by kenshin.



Fixed it for you. One Peice is no wear near a proper swords manga. All their swordsmen do is basic moves backed up with speed and strength


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## Purgatory (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> You mean where he speedblitzes the red demon things?



That, and when he owns Dante in the cutscene after the first fight.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

SoulTaker540 said:


> Lets not pretend like Zoro has no skill,the fact that he fights at the level he does with a fucking sword in his mouth is nothing short of amazing.The thing is that Kenshin fights foes with physical abilities on par with himself and as such he overcomes them with skill.



How is holding a sword in your mouth a feat of anything except your jaw and neck strength? And the way kenshin fight is what a swords battle is in reality


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Fixed it for you. One Peice is no wear near a proper swords manga. All their swordsmen do is basic moves backed up with speed and strength



w/e, i been dealing with biased DBZ fans today, and now im onto some kenshin ones. im not gonna argue with you. you pretty much say that with speed and strenght, there comes no skill. which automatically gives me the win. so peace. and zoro>kenshin.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> w/e, i been dealing with biased DBZ fans today, and now im onto some kenshin ones. im not gonna argue with you. you pretty much say that with speed and strenght, there comes no skill. which automatically gives me the win. so peace. and zoro>kenshin.



Nice example of OPtardness... There is no way that kenshin is loosing to zoro in skill. Face it, he is the better swordsman


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

Dude seriously things like batoujutsu are tough techniques to use like the way kenshin does them. While zoro is fairly skilled Kenshin just outclasses him I mean in terms of pure skill not including strength and speed Kenshin is pretty high up there anime wise.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Corrupt Vergil said:


> That, and when he owns Dante in the cutscene after the first fight.



Ya, Vergil is pretty fucking awesome. He has damn good swordsmanship, being able to block and sent bullets back is damn awesome


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Nice example of OPtardness... There is no way that kenshin is loosing to zoro in skill. Face it, he is the better swordsman



eh no matter what, zoro would smash kenshin anyday. hahah, so take that! tell me when kenshin slices thru a building, steel train, or meditates holding two 30 ton boulders on his arm. zoro>kenshin, in skill and fighting. zoro WILL become the greatest swordsman in his world, and in ALL WORLDS! and one piece>ruroini kenshin, aswell. i win, you lose


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Dude seriously things like batoujutsu are tough techniques to use like the way kenshin does them. While zoro is fairly skilled Kenshin just outclasses him I mean in terms of pure skill not including strength and speed Kenshin is pretty high up there anime wise.



Exactly, and i like Zoro myself, but he is simply not on par with people like kenshin in swordsmanship. And that is the most important thing for a swordsman


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## mystictrunks (Sep 16, 2007)

Kenshin is one a completely different level of skill. He's somehow managed to do something impossible at multiple times. What is it? The ability to hit someone in nine places at once.

Until Zoro does something like that he won't have Kenshin's skill.


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## Purgatory (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Ya, Vergil is pretty fucking awesome. He has damn good swordsmanship, being able to block and sent bullets back is damn awesome



Man, his reaction time is impeccable as well. When Dante charged at him with his newfound devil strength, Vergil quickly turned around and unsheathed part of his Yamato to cut through between Dante's knuckles..Vergil looked like he was very eager to fight his "little brother" and his Devil strength.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

mystictrunks said:


> Kenshin is one a completely different level of skill. He's somehow managed to do something impossible at multiple times. What is it? The ability to hit someone in nine places at once.
> 
> Until Zoro does something like that he won't have Kenshin's skill.



until kenshin can solo armies, using "his skill" then kenshin will never be at zoros level. zoro has blocked about 15 swords at the same time, with his three swords. how the hell is kenshin gonna hit him?


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> eh no matter what, zoro would smash kenshin anyday. hahah, so take that! tell me when kenshin slices thru a building, steel train, or meditates holding two 30 ton boulders on his arm. zoro>kenshin, in skill and fighting. zoro WILL become the greatest swordsman in his world, and in ALL WORLDS! and one piece>ruroini kenshin, aswell. i win, you lose



Riiiiight... Even more OPtardness...


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Riiiiight... Even more OPtardness...



i love being a OPtard. zoro> kenshin


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

Dude Zoro probably would win in a normal battle because of his superior strength and speed but in this battle both of those aspects are the same and it relies on sword skill which Kenshin has more of so he wins this.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> until kenshin can solo armies, using "his skill" then kenshin will never be at zoros level. zoro has blocked about 15 swords at the same time, with his three swords. how the hell is kenshin gonna hit him?



Easily? The only reason kenshin hasn't done that because the writer didn't have crappy power scaling. With zoro's speed and strength kenshin easily beats zoro


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

And if you want to be an idiot, Trunks > Zoro. Happy now?


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## mystictrunks (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> until kenshin can solo armies, using "his skill" then kenshin will never be at zoros level. zoro has blocked about 15 swords at the same time, with his three swords. how the hell is kenshin gonna hit him?



Stopping 15 swords at once is a strength feat. If Zoro attempted to do that to people on his level of strength his arms and jaw would break.

As far as soloing fodder goes Kenshin has taken out more then his fair share.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Easily? The only reason kenshin hasn't done that because the writer didn't have crappy power scaling. With zoro's speed and strength kenshin easily beats zoro



are you a kid trying to get the last word? zoro has more skill, power, speed, stamina, and has it in him to KILL. zoro beats kenshin in every department. until kenshin can block 15 swords at once, and solo armies using "skill" then zoro> kenshin. ive seen kenshin, and nothinhe has done, proves he is better then zoro. face it, i win, and you lose.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

mystictrunks said:


> Stopping 15 swords at once is a strength feat. If Zoro attempted to do that to people on his level of strength his arms and jaw would break.
> 
> As far as soloing fodder goes Kenshin has taken out more then his fair share.



no...how the hell does he know where all the swords are gonna land? it isnt only strenght, but he blocks them perfectly, to where they dont hit him. i lost respect in you after that on trrunks


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> are you a kid trying to get the last word? zoro has more skill, power, speed, stamina, and has it in him to KILL. zoro beats kenshin in every department. until kenshin can block 15 swords at once, and solo armies using "skill" then zoro> kenshin. ive seen kenshin, and nothinhe has done, proves he is better then zoro. face it, i win, and you lose.



Wait, you are saying that imn childish and you are saying that Zoro has more skill than kenshin? Defiantly an OPtard. Unfortunately the only cure is reading quality literature, too bad. I admit that kenshin has inferior strength and speed but that is simply because the power scaling was done right. If the manga had OP's budget it would have been amazing. Anyway, in a pure skill match kenshin wins, no way around that. And Trunks using your definition of "skill" solos the OPverse quite easily (except for indestructible creatures, but oh well)


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Wait, you are saying that imn childish and you are saying that Zoro has more skill than kenshin? Defiantly an OPtard. Unfortunately the only cure is reading quality literature, too bad. I admit that kenshin has inferior strength and speed but that is simply because the power scaling was done right. If the manga had OP's budget it would have been amazing. Anyway, in a pure skill match kenshin wins, no way around that. And Trunks using your definition of "skill" solos the OPverse quite easily (except for indestructible creatures, but oh well)



how does kenshin have more skill? until he does the things that zoro has done, he doesnt. kenshin isnt any better then kuwabraa. for the record, OPtards>kenshintards


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Im using your logic. By your logic Trunks is a swords god because he has insane speed and strength. By normal logic he is a pathetic swordsman because he relies completely on strength and speed. See how that works?


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Im using your logic. By your logic Trunks is a swords god because he has insane speed and strength. By normal logic he is a pathetic swordsman because he relies completely on strength and speed. See how that works?



no, becasue trunks relies on KI, and power. zoro actually has SWORD techniques you idiot. zoro is the only one to master the three swords style. while kenshin has his weak one sword style. no way kenshin can take zoro


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> how does kenshin have more skill? until he does the things that zoro has done, he doesnt. kenshin isnt any better then kuwabraa. for the record, OPtards>kenshintards



Wtf? His moves and technique is way more skillful than zoros. Just because he can't slice steel doesn't make him a bad swordsman, blame good powerscaling


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Wtf? His moves and technique is way more skillful than zoros. Just because he can't slice steel doesn't make him a bad swordsman, blame good powerscaling



what just hack and slashing frieza into pieces? kinda like what kenshin does? zoro actually has skill, and names for technuqes he makes up with his swords. zoro>all


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> no, becasue trunks relies on KI, and power. zoro actually has SWORD techniques you idiot. zoro is the only one to master the three swords style. while kenshin has his weak one sword style. no way kenshin can take zoro



What? Trunks killed Frieza and King Cold, feats that dwarf all of zoro's, while using his sword. He has done so much with his sword that it makes zoro look like a child. You have no logic to back yourself up. Trunks relies on ki and power? Zoro relies on speed and power, your point? Trunks has done things far more impressive than zoro with a sword


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## Fan o Flight (Sep 16, 2007)

zoro wins with one sword


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> what just hack and slashing frieza into pieces? kinda like what kenshin does? zoro actually has skill, and names for technuqes he makes up with his swords. zoro>all



Lol, you think skill means names for crappy and basic techniques?


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> What? Trunks killed Frieza and King Cold, feats that dwarf all of zoro's, while using his sword. He has done so much with his sword that it makes zoro look like a child. You have no logic to back yourself up. Trunks relies on ki and power? Zoro relies on speed and power, your point? Trunks has done things far more impressive than zoro with a sword



how do i have no logic? didnt i already tell your kenshin dick riding ass, that zoro has SWORD techniqeus? he blocks 15 swords, with his 3. trunks just uses speed and power. kenshin just uses speed and a little skill


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## mystictrunks (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> no...how the hell does he know where all the swords are gonna land? it isnt only strenght, but he blocks them perfectly, to where they dont hit him. i lost respect in you after that on trrunks



Zoro was able to guess where they were because he was fighting fodder. Fodder is always shown to be incompotent, be it Zoro blocking swords or a bunch of demons in YYH all lining up for no reason.


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## Zephos (Sep 16, 2007)

In the Kenshinverse sword skill was based upon who could create the more ridiculous ink splatter and gigantic kanji on the super special move page.

Zoro never could do that, he loses to Kenshin's immense brush flicking ink splash pages.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> how do i have no logic? didnt i already tell your kenshin dick riding ass, that zoro has SWORD techniqeus? he blocks 15 swords, with his 3. trunks just uses speed and power. kenshin just uses speed and a little skill



And what do you think kenshin uses, stick techniques? There is obviously no way to put logic in your little head OPtard...


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 16, 2007)

Kenshin is able to read his opponents' movements by analyzing their emotions.  Not fodder, but high-quality swordsmen such as Soujiro, who is also skilled with battoujutsu, like Kenshin.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Kenshin is able to read his opponents' movements by analyzing their emotions.  Not fodder, but high-quality swordsmen such as Soujiro, who is also skilled with battoujutsu, like Kenshin.



This is logic children, learn how to use it


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> And what do you think kenshin uses, stick techniques? There is obviously no way to put logic in your little head OPtard...



lol, so you finally get off the "zoro is all power and speed" and accpeted that you were a lost little boy, who is blinded by kenshins nutz. kenshin has skill, and so does zoro. zoro's style takes mroe skill, zoro mastered his style, therefore, zoro>kenshin. now get off the nutz and accept it


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> lol, so you finally get off the "zoro is all power and speed" and accpeted that you were a lost little boy, who is blinded by kenshins nutz. kenshin has skill, and so does zoro. zoro's style takes mroe skill, zoro mastered his style, therefore, zoro>kenshin. now get off the nutz and accept it



Suuuureeeeee, scans of zoro's so called superior to kenshin skills? And im not even a huge fan of kenshin. Kenshin has more skill, zoro has more bad powerscaling aka crazy speed and strength. In a ordinary fight zoro wins, in a competition of who has more mastery of the blade, kenshin wins easily. Zoro's style riles on strength and speed, thus is more brawlerish with three swords thrown in. If you believe that to be swordsmanship, then i pity you.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 16, 2007)

^Terrible argument, Kenshin has mastered Hiten Mitsurugi completely.



Flamefang said:


> Wtf? His moves and technique is way more skillful than zoros. Just because he can't slice steel doesn't make him a bad swordsman, blame good powerscaling



Kenshin can cut through steel.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

The Faint Smile said:


> ^Terrible argument, Kenshin has mastered Hiten Mitsurugi completely.
> 
> 
> 
> Kenshin can cut through steel.



Well not to the butter-easy degree Zoro does


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Suuuureeeeee, scans of kenshin's so called superior to zoro's skills? And im not even a huge fan of kenshin. Kenshin has more hair, zoro has more crazy speed and strength. In a ordinary fight zoro FUCKING STOMPS, in a competition of who has more mastery of the blade, kenshin wins easily,since i cant let go of his nutz obviously. Zoro's style riles on strength and speed,and im assuming is more brawlerish with three swords thrown in.



fixed. eh is doesnt matter to me anymore. we both know that zoro would decapitate kenshin, and kenshin would be foreever forgotten as a swordsman, after zoro got thru with him. and we both know that one piece is a better anime. so PEACE!


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

Whatever helps you sleep at night.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 16, 2007)

I was calling Devilyusuke's argument terrible, just to clarify. I liked Kenshin more than One Piece too, but hey subjective opinions...


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> *fixed*. eh is doesnt matter to me anymore because i am a pathetic looser. we both know that zoro would decapitate kenshin because the writers suck ass at power scaling, and kenshin would be foreever remembered as a superior swordsman, after zoro speed blitzes and tares him to shreds with his bare hands. and we both know that one piece is a better anime, but kenshin is a far better manga with good powerscaling and good sword moves and no half-assed humor. so PEACE i need to pick up some tampons!



I think you said it all right here in the improved version


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## Grandmaster Kane (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Well not to the butter-easy degree Zoro does



Kenshin has always been able to cut steel

even before he became a good swordsman

Zoro learned to cut skill pretty recently

There is a huge gap in skill here.

Kenshin is mihawk level skill (not speed or power)


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Gecko4lif said:


> Kenshin has always been able to cut steel
> 
> even before he became a good swordsman
> 
> ...


 
Steel in OP is on a higher level than kenshin's, since zoro was easily cutting boulders a long time ago.


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

^ Was that a joke?


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Who can make flying slashes?  Who can manifest his ki into a visual form?   Jeez this isn't brain surgery here.   Its pretty gapingly obvious that Zoro has a better more powerful style even without his massive speed strength and whatnot advantage.   Kenshin NEEDS to read people because thats his skill.   Zoro can ALSO read people, and has done so on more than one occasion.   Combined with the fact that he has a million more techniques each that make the Amakakeru no Hirakmeki look silly.   His single blade can pass through most any material regardless of hardness, he can create whirlwinds and waves of force, he can create maelstroms of blades and what can kenshin do to defend himself from these things?   A single rapid draw cut?   Please.  This is silly.   Kenshin only has massive skill compared to a basically normal universe.

Madoka Mawari would murder kenshin in a skill contest as would Kujaku and Kirin or any number of other swordsmen.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Who can make flying slashes?  Who can manifest his ki into a visual form?   Jeez this isn't brain surgery here.   Its pretty gapingly obvious that Zoro has a better more powerful style even without his massive speed strength and whatnot advantage.   Kenshin NEEDS to read people because thats his skill.   Zoro can ALSO read people, and has done so on more than one occasion.   Combined with the fact that he has a million more techniques each that make the Amakakeru no Hirakmeki look silly.   His single blade can pass through most any material regardless of hardness, he can create whirlwinds and waves of force, he can create maelstroms of blades and what can kenshin do to defend himself from these things?   A single rapid draw cut?   Please.  This is silly.   Kenshin only has massive skill compared to a basically normal universe.
> 
> Madoka Mawari would murder kenshin in a skill contest as would Kujaku and Kirin or any number of other swordsmen.



Whoa whoa whoa there blindy, i said equal physical abilities, do you lack reading abilities? All of zoro's moves are based on strength and speed. That makes them shit. Kenshin learned his moves from the strongest kenjutsu school and the strongest swordsmen in his world. All his moves are about tactics and timing. With equal strength and speed, he rapes zoro. Read some of the earlier posts. Zoro's skill = shit compared to real swordmastery. OP's swordsmen are brawlers with swords


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Who can make flying slashes?


I'd just like to point out that there was a guy in Kenshin that could do this.  He was considered "a dog" that wasn't even worth considering by Saito.



Pipboy said:


> Who can manifest his ki into a visual form?


Kenshin?  Did against Shishio at least.



Pipboy said:


> His single blade can pass through most any material regardless of hardness


So can Kenshin's.  Back in arc 1 of his story (cut's Sano's sword effortlessly back in the second volume or so, cuts a stone statue effortlessly in the Megumi arc).




Pipboy said:


> he can create whirlwinds and waves of force, he can create maelstroms of blades and what can kenshin do to defend himself from these things?


Kenshin blocked Misao's kunai with waves of force from his sword.  If he had Zoro's insane strength he'd be making whirlwinds too.

Honestly I'd argue that end-of-manga Yahiko is probably close in skill to Zoro.  And Kenshin in his prime was more skillful than Yahiko.


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Ahem.... I read exactly what you wrote.   And I also noted that in my paragraph that you failed to read.  So we have a situation here.  I read you didn't and because of that now I have to explain to you again that no matter what the kiddie pool level of skill he has he can't hear the breath of all things, access ki or send flying slashes.   So while you are arbitrarily pointing to skill because in the limited world that kenshin lives in that is the only thing that they can look at (truthfully not as strength and speed are some of kenshins primary virtues) in a world where swordsmanship is a massive breadth of techniques thats not the case.    

Your bullshit about "real" swordsmanship is irrelevant as Kenshins abilities have literally nothing to do with real swordsmanship.   Zoro has more techniques that are better than the ones kenshin has and has the ability to read his opponents as well.

Moogle:  BS, the void slash was pathetic compared to the massive breadth that Zoro has, BS that was not a sustained illusion, Untrue, as zoro can cut steel quite easily its BYPASSING it through resonance he couldn't do without the breath.  Which cuts ANYTHING.


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

Most of what you said he does is derived from strength.


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## Coaxmetal (Sep 16, 2007)

The problem with determining Zoro's skillfulness is the vague nature in which Oda writes alot of Zoro's more complex attacks. Zoro is skilled, but how skilled is a subject of debate. However, being able to effectively use three swords at a time is pretty damn impressive.


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

In terms of dexterity it is impressive but dexterity=/=technique.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Ahem.... I read exactly what you wrote.   And I also noted that in my paragraph that you failed to read.  So we have a situation here.  I read you didn't and because of that now I have to explain to you again that no matter what the kiddie pool level of skill he has he can't hear the breath of all things, access ki or send flying slashes.   So while you are arbitrarily pointing to skill because in the limited world that kenshin lives in that is the only thing that they can look at (truthfully not as strength and speed are some of kenshins primary virtues) in a world where swordsmanship is a massive breadth of techniques thats not the case.
> 
> Your bullshit about "real" swordsmanship is irrelevant as Kenshins abilities have literally nothing to do with real swordsmanship.   Zoro has more techniques that are better than the ones kenshin has and has the ability to read his opponents as well.
> 
> Moogle:  BS, the void slash was pathetic compared to the massive breadth that Zoro has, BS that was not a sustained illusion, Untrue, as zoro can cut steel quite easily its BYPASSING it through resonance he couldn't do without the breath.  Which cuts ANYTHING.



Riiiiiiight, keep telling yourself that... Name one technique (and provide scans) that is superior to Kenshin's Amakakeru Ryu no hirameki. Take that technique's necessary force. Now, add to kenshin Zoro's strength and speed. Multiply Kenshin's technique by X and shove that in to Zoro's ass. That is the formula for rape. Zoro has nothing good no matter how many half assed moves he has, all he does is rely on strength. Kenshin's reading is superior, he blocks bullets coming from behing him with his sword in non battousai. Unless you have disproven that your statement is invalid, thank you come again.


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Moogle:  BS, the void slash was pathetic compared to the massive breadth that Zoro has,


Yes, but it was done by a guy with essentially normal human strength.

I don't consider it "skill" when the Hulk or Thing thunderclaps.  It's still impressive, but it's impressive for different reasons.



Pipboy said:


> BS that was not a sustained illusion,


Er, I didn't say it was an illusion, I just said that Kenshin can manifest his Ki too, for what that's worth.



Pipboy said:


> Untrue, as zoro can cut steel quite easily its BYPASSING it through resonance he couldn't do without the breath.  Which cuts ANYTHING.


Kenshin cuts steel and stone effortlessly at what is (essentially) the start of the comic.  You can't deny that.

Essentially all I'm saying is all of Zoro's skill feats, Kenshin (or a lessor swordsman) has duplicated.  Thus while I think Zoro is skilled, I think Kenshin is more skilled by far.

(The people calling Zoro a "brawler with swords" aren't really being fair to him, he's shown a number of times that he does value skill with swords.  Arlong's octopus-guy is the first example that comes to mind.  The main issue I have is that Zoro also relies on his physical powers quite a bit as well, which detracts from his skill feats.)


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## Coaxmetal (Sep 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> In terms of dexterity it is impressive but dexterity=/=technique.



Dexterity would imply that he could hold a sword in his mouth and move it around without dropping it. Technique would imply that he could actually use that sword in a combat situation. 

I think Pipboy brings up a very good point and that is Zoro's Chi abilities. These abilities rely on Zoro's inner willpower (as expressed by the flashback with his teacher during the instant when he first learned that he was able to cut steel). Projectile attacks from his sword, having the ability to cut anything by willpower solely (it is pure mind over matter and the mind wasn't excluded from this fight), and spirtual energy manifestations are things that Zoro can do that are not coming from either strength or speed.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Coaxmetal said:


> Dexterity would imply that he could hold a sword in his mouth and move it around without dropping it. Technique would imply that he could actually use that sword in a combat situation.
> 
> I think Pipboy brings up a very good point and that is Zoro's Chi abilities. These abilities rely on Zoro's inner willpower (as expressed by the flashback with his teacher during the instant when he first learned that he was able to cut steel). Projectile attacks from his sword, having the ability to cut anything by willpower solely (it is pure mind over matter and the mind wasn't excluded from this fight), and spirtual energy manifestations are things that Zoro can do that are not coming from either strength or speed.



I don't see kenshin having a hard time dodging these with Zoro's speed and his reading abilities since he can turn around and block a bullet while having his guard down and thats just with his speed and reflexes. With zoro's he would be able to do crazy stuff


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## SoulTaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> How is holding a sword in your mouth a feat of anything except your jaw and neck strength? And the way kenshin fight is what a swords battle is in reality



He fights with a sword in his mouth how the hell is that not amazing?He uses a sword in his mouth in order to fight his enemies,that takes unbelievable skill.And just because Kenshin fights in a world with physics alot similar to our own does not mean he has more skill,him hitting a guy in nine spots at once is skill,him using his sword in the opposite way and not cutting off his leg is skill.


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Kenshin manifesting his Ki has no practical effect because Ki in RK doesn't really do much.   For Zoro not only does it manage to create techniques like the Asura which strikes so many times that it reduces and attack like the Amanedachi into mist.   

Furthermore the fact that you have said that his strength is the source of all of his ranged attacks is immaterial to the actuality of the situation as the only hint as to the nature of Zoro is that he is a master of the power of Destruction.  A vague theory put forth by Brooke explaining that Ryuuma was also a swordsman of such power.  

Truth is that you can't separate his techniques from his skill by blanket statements to the effect that you normalized his strength so all his techniques vanish as well.   They are his fighting style and if you want to make this zoro just cutting with 3 swords no strength no speed no techniques then you have not put zoro in a match because his skills are manifested through his techniques.   The only swordsmen that I can think of off the top of my head that don't name thier attacks and use onyl the basics are Madoka Mawari and Guts, both of whom are better than Kenshin.

Finally since you seem so eager for my to name a technique better than Kenshins I'll name 7.  

Rashomon, 108 Agony Phoenix lash, The Hawk Wave, Dragon Flight Fire, Lion Requiem, dragon twister and the Silver Mist.  Every single one of the techniques produces an effect that is the master technique of another member of kenshins verse and some produce effects that are above and beyond.

With Asura Zoro could literally run through the Amakakeru and cut kenshin to shreds.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

SoulTaker540 said:


> He fights with a sword in his mouth how the hell is that not amazing?He uses a sword in his mouth in order to fight his enemies,that takes unbelievable skill.And just because Kenshin fights in a world with physics alot similar to our own does not mean he has more skill,him hitting a guy in nine spots at once is skill,him using his sword in the opposite way and not cutting off his leg is skill.



Kenshin does amazing things with just his speed and strength. He maximizes the swords cutting ability to make up for strength. Now with zoro's strength, he would be insanely strong. He would shred zoro and show him what old style kenjutsu is all about. I don't see any way that zoro can win. And how is holding a sword in your mouth amazing? I still say that Zoro is more similar to luffy than a real swordsman. Unfortunately he was OP's best attempt a swordsman. OP was never a swords manga and it never will be. Its all about strength and speed there


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

^and logias powers.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Kenshin manifesting his Ki has no practical effect because Ki in RK doesn't really do much.   For Zoro not only does it manage to create techniques like the Asura which strikes so many times that it reduces and attack like the Amanedachi into mist.
> 
> Furthermore the fact that you have said that his strength is the source of all of his ranged attacks is immaterial to the actuality of the situation as the only hint as to the nature of Zoro is that he is a master of the power of Destruction.  A vague theory put forth by Brooke explaining that Ryuuma was also a swordsman of such power.
> 
> ...



What is the point of not naming zoro's techniques? And again, scans of them being superior. Provide scans of zoro's strongest technique and then take the force and put it to kenshin's technique. The fact is that zoro DOES rely on strength. He is all about strength and speed. Is this swordsmastery? Hell no! Thats like calling luffy a black belt because he is wicked strong and fast. I could also say that inuyasha or some other pathetic sword user is a master because they use a lot of force. Guess what, force does not make a technique. If you say that it does, than Trunks is a swords god, and ichigo is a master. Zoro is a pathetic swordsmen. He is a great fighter, but when it comes to techniques kenshin puts him to shame


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## Sylar (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Kenshin manifesting his Ki has no practical effect because Ki in RK doesn't really do much.   For Zoro not only does it manage to create techniques like the Asura which strikes so many times that it reduces and attack like the Amanedachi into mist.
> 
> Furthermore the fact that you have said that his strength is the source of all of his ranged attacks is immaterial to the actuality of the situation as the only hint as to the nature of Zoro is that he is a master of the power of Destruction.  A vague theory put forth by Brooke explaining that Ryuuma was also a swordsman of such power.
> 
> ...



You forgot Enbima Yonezu Oni Giri and Hiryuu Kaen.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 16, 2007)

One has to admit that it's amazing how Kenshin skillfully uses battoujutsu to maximize the force of his attacks.  I would think that takes a bit of technique to pull off.


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

Indeed he even got the name battousai because he pretty much perfected battoujutsu.


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Hiryu Kaen translates to Dragon Flight Fire.   

And Flamefang you seem to be mistaking the power of the attacks for its FUNCTION.   No one in kenshin can use anything close to the Shishi Sonson, nor Asura, and can only use pale imitations of ONE of the weakest flying slashes he has.  

And by the way, you are mistaking ORGANIZATION and CODIFICATION for skill.   Some of the greatest swordsmen and fighters were self taught.  They had very little or no formal training but won because they had a style that was their own.   Our current fighting styles lose meaning as one reaches the upper ecehlons of fighting.   Saying that Krav Maga is a better style than boxing is immaterial because Mike Tyson wasn't a boxer, he was a mike tysoner.   And Mike Tysoning is much better for mike tyson than Krav Maga.

And by the way, Inuyasha has two techniques that rely on the mystic nature of his attackers attacks, thats the only skill he shows.  Zoro has more techniques that he can use than kenshin has teeth and they all rely on only him.   He is incredibly powerful and thats what makes it possible for him to bisect a train longwise but his technique is what allows hi power to flow out in that pattern.

If you reduce him to kenshin levels then he can still use all of the power kenshin has to DO SHIT kenshin can only dream of.

Bottom line is with the same power he can do more because his techniques are plain old supernatural and better than kenshins at that.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 16, 2007)

How many of Zoro's techniques actually have something to do with real swordsmanship?  I'm getting the impression that he relies on ki-powers or something similar.


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## Sylar (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Hiryu Kaen translates to Dragon Flight Fire.



Ooops. 

My bad.


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## Banhammer (Sep 16, 2007)

kenshin drains GAR
Zoro lacks GAR
By atrition, big K wins


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

Um asura has 9 swords and can hit 9 places at once kenshin has a technique with one sword and also hits 9 places at once and it is not even his most powerful attack and it seems alot of zoro's techniques rely on ki.


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## Sylar (Sep 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Um asura has 9 swords and can hit 9 places at once kenshin has a technique with one sword and also hits 9 places at once and it is not even his most powerful attack and it seems alot of zoro's techniques rely on ki.



It takes skill to use Ki. A lot of skill.


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> How many of Zoro's techniques actually have something to do with real swordsmanship?  I'm getting the impression that he relies on ki-powers or something similar.



Just like emotions allow you to predict the locations of a physical strike?  Or like a thin metal ribbon can cut through a thicker amount of ribbon and not break?  Or like any other of the pseudorealistic abilities that kenshin has?  I call bullshit.

And by the way, Kenshin has 1 sword hitting 9 places, Zoro has 9 swords hitting INNUMERABLE places.


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

It does take skill to use ki but not swordskill.


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## Flamefang (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Hiryu Kaen translates to Dragon Flight Fire.
> 
> And Flamefang you seem to be mistaking the power of the attacks for its FUNCTION.   No one in kenshin can use anything close to the Shishi Sonson, nor Asura, and can only use pale imitations of ONE of the weakest flying slashes he has.
> 
> ...



That was a big post full of noting. Your basicly saying that he can beat kenshin just because. Any proof? Kenshin was pulling out shit that zoro could only dream to do at his speed and strength. He is all flash but no substance. He uses raw and brute force. Kenshin uses refine and mastered to perfection moves. Zoro shits himself when he sees what he can do. It doesn't matter if it is his own or self taught, the point is, it is not skill but power. Give kenshin that power and he will anal zoro. Plain and simple. Again, thats like saying that Trunks is sword god because he can cut down a mountain or w/e. Unless you somehow prove zoro's skill, and not his strength, you cannot beat kenshin's sword. Kenshin was doing insane stuff with human abilities, and a sword that restricts him greatly. He said himself if his technique is used with a regular katana it is massacre. Now multiply that by Zoro's strength and speed and you get EPIC rape


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

And it takes skill to break the laws of physics... but not sword skill.  And it takes skill to read minds via emotion, but not sword skills.   Try again.

And Flamefang.  You don't seem to get it.  Zoro wins because his technique is more amazing.  its more versatile, its more supernatural and its capable of things that Kenshin isn't.   There is nothing that kenshin can do that Zoro cannot, INCLUDING reading his foes.


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

Oh Zoro can do anything kenshin can? How about hitting someone in 9 places at once with ONE SWORD?


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Oh jeez, hitting someone quickly with a sword..... 

First off, its not at once, because if it was he would be moving faster than time.  Second, hitting someone quickly with a sword is the essence of the Nine Swords style.   Third Zoro only uses 1 sword attacks for draw cuts so your entire argument is facetious.   Its like complaining about Zoro's lack of rubber techniques.  

Can Kenshin create Spiral Flying Slashes?
Can he Create waves of force?
Can he create Cyclones that cut?
Can he Create a Linear Flying Slash?
Can he create Ki illusions that manifest continuously?
Can he Cut through anything with the breath of all things?
Can he light foes on fire with his cuts?
Can he Strike so fast as to reduce a attack to mist?

No.

Stop.

Attempting.

To.

Obfuscate.

The.

Obvious.

Difference.

In.

Ability.


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## ??PR?ŞŞ?? (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Oh jeez, hitting someone quickly with a sword.....
> 
> First off, its not at once, because if it was he would be moving faster than time.  Second, hitting someone quickly with a sword is the essence of the Nine Swords style.   Third Zoro only uses 1 sword attacks for draw cuts so your entire argument is facetious.   Its like complaining about Zoro's lack of rubber techniques.
> 
> ...



But aren't those techniques you listed just a product of Zoro's physical strength?


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeah cause lighting people on fire and hearing the mystical breath of all things and creating illusions are all things that hulk does.


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Yeah cause lighting people on fire and hearing the mystical breath of all things and creating illusions are all things that hulk does.



Actually, other than the illusions a very-weak Flash mixed with a fairly-weak Hulk could do everything Zoro does.


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Oh wow..... you just managed to say with a straight face that by combining two of the most powerful metahumans out there... that you can duplicate those feats....

Shit man you are losing it badly.

Garp is the strongest character by far, Luffy is a close second.   Does luffy hae flying slashes?  Or Fire lighting.... or illusions.

So much fail it boggles the mind.  Stop being so goddam wrong.


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## Sylar (Sep 16, 2007)

In order to use Ki, you need the SKILL to use it.

Using Ki with swords requires swordSKILL.


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

So according to you ichigo and trunks are very impressive in their swordskill cause they kind of seemed hack and slash to me.


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Duhr....... cause thats exactly what I said.... if of course large sections of your brain are necrotic husks.


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Oh wow..... you just managed to say with a straight face that by combining two of the most powerful metahumans out there... that you can duplicate those feats....



"Very weak" incarnations of them.  But if you'd prefer:

Thing can do "waves of force" with his bare hands, does that make him a more skilled martial artist than Daredevil or Captain America?

Northstar can generate blasts of heat.  Is that because of his skill at fighting or a function of how his speed works?

If current Hulk wanted to, he could probably cut Earth in half with his sword.  Does that make him a godlike swordsman or just really @#$@ing strong?

I think the trick to this is to identify exactly what things Zoro does due to skill as opposed to just being supernaturally strong or fast.  To me, this is easier to see when he's fighting other swordsmen.  From what I've seen, he generally ends up relying on his strength or speed or endurance rather than superior sword skill.


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## Wesker (Sep 16, 2007)

I was talking to sylar not you pipboy.


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## Pipboy (Sep 16, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> "Very weak" incarnations of them.  But if you'd prefer:
> 
> Thing can do "waves of force" with his bare hands, does that make him a more skilled martial artist than Daredevil or Captain America?
> 
> ...



I have two words for you.

Iron Fist.

Or how about.   

karate kid?


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## Sylar (Sep 16, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> So according to you ichigo and trunks are very impressive in their swordskill cause they kind of seemed hack and slash to me.



Ichigo knows one Ki sword technique. ONE.  And for him its almost a reflex for him initially.  Technically he gets help with it from Zangetsu.

Trunks doesn't know any techniques but he can infuse his sword with Ki apparently.  He doesn't have any sword attacks that use Ki.  He's skilled with Ki, just not Ki with his sword.


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## EvilMoogle (Sep 16, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I have two words for you.
> 
> Iron Fist.



Iron Fist is a very skilled martial artist.

But most of his supernatural abilities do not come from his skill, but because he plunged his fist into the heart of <dragon who's name I'm not going to look up>.

So while I think he would do well in a battle of technique were speed and strength equaled out, I would not consider his "Iron Fist" to be a martial arts technique, it's a power.

That's why I compared Thing to Daredevil and Cap, who's powers are rather mild (but still display a high degree of martial arts skill).


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## Pipboy (Sep 17, 2007)

Thats what I call flimsy rationalization.  Not even counting the fact that western comics are far less system based preferring to gift a power with no abilty to upgrade, and that in most Eastern comics there is a correlation between supernatural powers and skill.  Rand gained much of the ability to control and use the power from his martial arts training.   

And I pointed out Karate Kid whose completely human but can hurt superman bare handed in defiance of all logic through sheer skill.


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## Limit_Tester (Sep 17, 2007)

Damn... I was hoping to get my licks in but it looks like Pipboy pretty much ended this debate. I guess I'll have to relegate myself to providing scans should the need arise.


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## ??PR?ŞŞ?? (Sep 17, 2007)

It seems hard to judge these two based on the universes they come from. Kenshin is somewhat more grounded in reality. Even with less strength and speed, Kenshin was able to do some impressive things, like cutting through steel. He also mastered a powerful style, and almost mastered it at a young age. In One Piece, it is more outrageous. This allows Zoro to show the strength he has, like lifting boulders, etc. There is also the fact that it seems like Zoro just uses new, stronger attacks with no explanation.

Also, there is someone in Rurouni Kenshin, who can uses flames; Shishio. Though he actually has an explanation on how he does it, though he needs some help(the fats and oils) to do it rather than strength alone.


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## Wesker (Sep 17, 2007)

My guess is the way zoro does it is the friction caused by an extremely fast slice creates the fire. Something that requires great strength to do pretty much if that is how he does it then it really isn't technique just quick sword slashing. However if it is an actual technique like the way sishio does it then that would be impressive.


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## Bender (Sep 17, 2007)

One word: Amkakeru Ryu no Hirameki 

Game set and done 

And if that don't work Kenshin throw in some Battousai


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## Pipboy (Sep 17, 2007)

How about you go and assume that it doesn't work so badly that Kenshin loses his wrists.    All fear the wristless battousai.  Cause he can stump you.


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## Wesker (Sep 17, 2007)

^ What are you talking about?


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## Flamefang (Sep 17, 2007)

Wow, this is pretty stupid. I believe that this was ended, since kenshin shows greater skill with limited abilities , with zoro's speed and strength he wins. End of debate


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## Flamefang (Sep 17, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Oh wow..... you just managed to say with a straight face that by combining two of the most powerful metahumans out there... that you can duplicate those feats....
> 
> Shit man you are losing it badly.
> 
> ...



Did i miss the part where Luffy uses sword or doesn't rely purely on strength?


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## Flamefang (Sep 17, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Oh jeez, hitting someone quickly with a sword.....
> 
> First off, its not at once, because if it was he would be moving faster than time.  Second, hitting someone quickly with a sword is the essence of the Nine Swords style.   Third Zoro only uses 1 sword attacks for draw cuts so your entire argument is facetious.   Its like complaining about Zoro's lack of rubber techniques.
> 
> ...



All of that is speed + strength + sword. Do you see a skill in there?


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## Zephos (Sep 17, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> All of that is speed + strength + sword. Do you see a skill in there?



So skill here is something that dosen't have to do with using a sword?


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## Limit_Tester (Sep 17, 2007)

Zephos said:


> So skill here is something that dosen't have to do with using a sword?



I think Flamefang might be using a very liberal definition of "strength."


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## Pipboy (Sep 17, 2007)

Your definition of skill excludes every move kenshin has.   Your definition of power is crazy.

And by the way, if all it took was strength, then Luffy would be doing the same thing.   But he isn't, which is what you didn't get the first time I pointed it out.


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## Perfect Moron (Sep 18, 2007)

The same argument people are using against Zoro could be used against Kenshin. Most of his special moves are based on his speed, or his ridiculous jumping power. I'd say it takes more skill to wield three swords at the same time, specially one with the mouth.


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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 18, 2007)

thanks pipboy. i knew in my head, that zoro was more skillful then kenshin. but i just couldnt get it out as good as you did. so zoro>kenshin, and take that flamewang.


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## BlackShinobi (Sep 18, 2007)

Battousai FTW


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## master bruce (Sep 18, 2007)

zoro is faster.
kenshin dies.


----------



## Amped Lightning (Sep 18, 2007)

three dimenisional beats 2D. if kenshin wern't flat, he'd win.


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## Wesker (Sep 18, 2007)

Bruce they both have the same stats in this battle.


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Your definition of skill excludes every move kenshin has.   Your definition of power is crazy.
> 
> And by the way, if all it took was strength, then Luffy would be doing the same thing.   But he isn't, which is what you didn't get the first time I pointed it out.



Strength as in physical power, what other kind of definition do you want? Skill is about being able to surpass normal human limitations by using techniques that maximize your abilities. Since OP doesn't have limitations, there is little skill needed. An example is a man cutting steel with a sword. In normal world this would be crazy since if you simply chop you will brake your bones. Kenshin maximizes the blade, making it actually cut like a blade. Zoro simply swings his swords around with crazy strength and speed. And ranged/will attacks are excluded as this is a sword battle, not some DBZ shit.


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## Zephos (Sep 18, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Strength as in physical power, what other kind of definition do you want? Skill is about being able to surpass normal human limitations by using techniques that maximize your abilities. Since OP doesn't have limitations, there is little skill needed. An example is a man cutting steel with a sword. In normal world this would be crazy since if you simply chop you will brake your bones. Kenshin maximizes the blade, making it actually cut like a blade. Zoro simply swings his swords around with crazy strength and speed. And ranged/will attacks are excluded as this is a sword battle, not some DBZ shit.



1.One Piece dosen't have-...

What?

Are you implying any given joe shmoe in One Piece can do what Zoro does?
Zoro is superhuman in OP, he has surpassed assloads of limitations.

2. Go back and read the Mr.1 fight. Zoro didn't just cut steel effortlessly. 

3. Ranged attacks using sword swings is a perfect example of surpassing human limitations. 

4. Swordsman will/ki projection is a time honored samurai manga feature. Not "dbz shit". Maybe if you'd read any real samurai manga (not Kenshin) you would know this.


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Zephos said:


> 1.One Piece dosen't have-...
> 
> What?
> 
> ...


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## Zephos (Sep 18, 2007)

> Zoro is a main character so you would expect him to have powerful moves



Kenshin is main character, you would expect him to have powerful moves.



> but again he relies purely on strength and speed.



As opposed to what?



> Surpassing human limitations? OP shits on them every chapter. This is not about the characters, this is crappy power scaling



One Piece has different limitations obviously. As does Kenshin.



> No its a device used by the author to strengthen Zoro and try to put him close to luffy.



What are you talking about?


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Kenshin is main character, you would expect him to have powerful moves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1Kenshin has decent power scaling contrary to OP's crazy ass strength. Kenshin's moves are very strong for a regular human, with zoro's strength and speed this is rape.
2Using actual skill like a swordsmen should. Zoro is a brawler with swords, nuff said
3When you compare what kenshin can do with his limitations to what zoro can do, there is a big gap in power in favor of kenshin


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## Zephos (Sep 18, 2007)

> 1Kenshin has decent power scaling contrary to OP's crazy ass strength.



Your dismissing OP purely because its crazy ass rather than looking at zoro within his crazy ass world. Fail.



> 2Using actual skill like a swordsmen should. Zoro is a brawler with swords, nuff said



And that skill is...?



> 3When you compare what kenshin can do with his limitations to what zoro can do, there is a big gap in power in favor of kenshin



No, not really.


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Your dismissing OP purely because its crazy ass rather than looking at zoro within his crazy ass world. Fail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1 No, im dismissing it because it involves no real sword skill and relies purely on strength and speed

2 Basically anything he uses? Cutting steel?

3 And proof of that is...


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## Zephos (Sep 18, 2007)

> 1 No, im dismissing it because it involves no real sword skill and relies purely on strength and speed



Which brings us to...



> 2 Basically anything he uses? Cutting steel?



You mean strength?



> 3 And proof of that is...



WHOA there horsey, burden of proof is on you!


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Which brings us to...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1 Huh? Nice response. It brings us to kenshin's sword skills > zoro's sword skills 

2 No, with kenshin's pethetic feats of strength, using pure strength would not allow him to cut the steel. Scans of kenshin's strength feats? 

3 Or so you say, scans of zoro's abilities which do not rely on strength/speed/willpower


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## Zephos (Sep 18, 2007)

> 1 Huh? Nice response. It brings us to kenshin's sword skills > zoro's sword skills



Exactly.



> 2 No, with kenshin's pethetic feats of strength, using pure strength would not allow him to cut the steel. Scans of kenshin's strength feats?



Yes please. As well as proof he's using "advanzed techniques" to do them.



> 3 Or so you say, scans of zoro's abilities which do not rely on strength/speed/willpower



So you don't know what a buden of proof is huh?


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1 Huh? Sword skills is what this match is about

2 Ladies first

3 Nope, im still waiting on your scans though


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## Zephos (Sep 18, 2007)

> 2 Ladies first
> 
> 3 Nope, im still waiting on your scans though



Burden of proof is basic.
Its whoever makes the claim must provide proof for it.
I and no one else has claimed Zoro is using leet techneeks, you however have claimed Kenshin does.

Ergo you need to prove your claim and I can kick back and sip a coke because I have no work to do here.


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## Wesker (Sep 18, 2007)

Alot of Zoro's moves do have skill but seem to be done with alot of strength backing them to perform them. And some techniques seem to involve ki more than anything instead of pure swordskill.


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Burden of proof is basic.
> Its whoever makes the claim must provide proof for it.
> I and no one else has claimed Zoro is using leet techneeks, you however have claimed Kenshin does.
> 
> Ergo you need to prove your claim and I can kick back and sip a coke because I have no work to do here.



Proof of what? Kenshin cutting steel? Huh what? This is well known. What is your argument exactly?


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## Limit_Tester (Sep 18, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> Alot of Zoro's moves do have skill but seem to be done with alot of strength backing them to perform them. And some techniques seem to involve ki more than anything instead of pure swordskill.



Ki... as in not strength. Which in OP is... drumroll please................................... sword skill.


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Ki... as in not strength. Which in OP is... drumroll please................................... sword skill.



Im talking about real sword skill, not OP shitty logic. Zoro never displayed sword skill, thus he looses to kenshin in this battle. It doesn't matter what is in OP or not, since luffy is godly and all he uses is strength and speed. Saying that zoro is a true swordsmen on par with kenshin is like saying Luffy is a black belt, or that trunks is a swordsmen. Trunks can totally beat zoro or anyone using a sword. Does this make him good? No. Same thing with zoro


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## Zephos (Sep 18, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Proof of what? Kenshin cutting steel? Huh what? This is well known. What is your argument exactly?



Proof he's using techniques to do so.
Go on.


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## Flamefang (Sep 18, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Proof he's using techniques to do so.
> Go on.



Kenshin cut a canon ball made out of something...


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## Lambo (Sep 18, 2007)

Did you not read the Mr. One vs Zoro fight, Flamefang, or did your eyes just glaze over it because you were busy screaming at the computer that One Piece is so shitty? Because if you had, you would know that Zoro had been trying to cut Mr. One with strength and speed for pages upon pages but failing. It was only when he discovered the breath of all things that he could cut steel. Not because he is a million times stronger that Kenshin (which he is).


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## Pipboy (Sep 18, 2007)

Clay, it was clay friend.


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## Shad0w49 (Sep 18, 2007)

Well...seeing as One Piece is based off a fantasy world...and Kenshin is based on an actual person... It's kind of obvious who'd win.  Being a kenshin fanboy, i would LIKE to say that kenshin'd win, however Zoro being able to take down eleventy feet tall people...it's kind of an unfair fight...

But kenshin is still cooler!!


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## neodragzero (Sep 18, 2007)

Shad0w49 said:


> But kenshin is still cooler!!



You have a great sense of humor. Zoro wins this bout. Zoro wins the category of being badass and coolness in comparison. Even more so in the not talking us to death about Meiji stuff that makes it all the more funny with where that leads to.


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## Shad0w49 (Sep 18, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> You have a great sense of humor. Zoro wins this bout. Zoro wins the category of being badass and coolness in comparison. Even more so in the not talking us to death about Meiji stuff that makes it all the more funny with where that leads to.



Kenshin is a much more interesting character IMO.  He has multiple aspects to his personality.  That and i hate one piece with a fiery burning passion fueled from the fiery pits of the land of 10,000 hells and various other unpleasantries.


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## neodragzero (Sep 18, 2007)

Shad0w49 said:


> Kenshin is a much more interesting character IMO.  He has multiple aspects to his personality.


Some of which are made all the more annoying when not watching dub version of the anime. Seriously, the whole long winded talking and so on got annoying real fast. I don't hate him. Just that I don't want to see another character like him...Too bad Train in Black Cat had to pop up.


> That and i hate one piece with a fiery burning passion fueled from the fiery pits of the land of 10,000 hells and various other unpleasantries.


Just keep both of your hands on the keyboard...


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## Pipboy (Sep 19, 2007)

A sure sign of victory is when you opponents have abandoned the pretense that their favored cahracter might win and are using, But so and So is cool, and or So and So's opponent is a bad character.  

Looks like we have Zoro, victory by TKO.


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## Basilikos (Sep 19, 2007)

Quite an intense debate you guys got going here.

Anyway, if it's a fight, then Zoro wins.

If it's a comparison of actual sword skill and not raw strength, stamina, and speed then Kenshin wins.


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## Zephos (Sep 19, 2007)

Shad0w49 said:


> Well...seeing as One Piece is based off a fantasy world...and Kenshin is based on an actual person... It's kind of obvious who'd win.  Being a kenshin fanboy, i would LIKE to say that kenshin'd win, however Zoro being able to take down eleventy feet tall people...it's kind of an unfair fight...
> 
> But kenshin is still cooler!!



Kenshin is about as based off a real person as Zoro is.


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## Wesker (Sep 20, 2007)

Regular Fight:Zoro
Same Stats Fight:Kenshin.


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## Pipboy (Sep 20, 2007)

Why on earth does it not seem to penetrate that with the same stats Zoro STILL has more skill.

With the same stats.

Kenshin can't....
...Create force wave
...create flying slashes
...Manifest his Ki
...cut through anything

Zoro can...
...read his opponents
...use massively powerful draw cuts
...strike multiple times in a moment.

What can kenshin do that zoro can't?


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## ??PR?ŞŞ?? (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Why on earth does it not seem to penetrate that with the same stats Zoro STILL has more skill.
> 
> With the same stats.
> 
> ...



Why are you counting out Kenshin so quickly? If Kenshin had Zoro's strength, I think he could do much more. Even in his own universe, he had some impressive feats. Cutting through boulders, steel, while not having the same strength that Zoro has. Not only that, he is experienced in predicting his opponents attacks. If he had more strength, I definitely think he is capable of more.


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## neodragzero (Sep 20, 2007)

Zoro cutting through steel wasn't a feat of strength. I thought it was already made obvious that cutting through steel WAS NOT A MATTER OF PHYSICAL STRENGTH. Zoro also has the predicting his opponents attack thing while defeating an opponent that can predict his every move without even seeing him. Kenshin still loses.


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## Pipboy (Sep 20, 2007)

Because if kenshin had zoro's strength he still couldn't create flying slashes or hear the breath of all things or manifest his ki.   Zoro has the power of destruction, something that Kenshin will never have.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Sep 20, 2007)

This is a joke, Zoro could take out the entire Kenshin cast without breaking a sweat

Except Yahiko. Yahiko owns (even though I don't like him)


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## ??PR?ŞŞ?? (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Because if kenshin had zoro's strength he still couldn't create flying slashes or hear the breath of all things or manifest his ki.   Zoro has the power of destruction, something that Kenshin will never have.



Well, I don't know how you could be so sure that Kenshin wouldn't be able to do anything with more power. Like I said, even in a weak universe he was able to do some impressive things. I don't see why he couldn't do more with more strength.


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## Pipboy (Sep 20, 2007)

Because Luffy has even more power than Zoro and HE DOESN'T.  Nor does Rob Lucci magically turn his obscene physical power into a usable move set.  It is in fact a trained skill.


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## ??PR?ŞŞ?? (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Because Luffy has even more power than Zoro and HE DOESN'T.  Nor does Rob Lucci magically turn his obscene physical power into a usable move set.  It is in fact a trained skill.



Kenshin has skill. He's even come up with a new technique in the midst of battle. I don't see it so far-fetched for him to come up with something new, if he has higher ability.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Sep 20, 2007)

Zoro has ability as well, pretty much everything he did was self-taught

Also Kenshin can't hurt Zoro. Zoro is a OP character so his durability is through the roof, Kenshin could do 10x of his strongest attacks and Zoro could laugh it off


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## Pipboy (Sep 20, 2007)

??PR?ŞŞ?? said:


> Kenshin has skill. He's even come up with a new technique in the midst of battle. I don't see it so far-fetched for him to come up with something new, if he has higher ability.



Oh cry me a river.  In ever battle Zoro uses at least 2 new moves, many times more.  Much of these moves are obviously improvisation and some of them involve revelations about the nature of the universe.


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## Suzumebachi (Sep 20, 2007)

??PR?ŞŞ?? said:


> Kenshin has skill. He's even come up with a new technique in the midst of battle. I don't see it so far-fetched for him to come up with something new, if he has higher ability.


 
He has skill. But not enough skill. 

Zoro taught himself how to cut through anyhing in the midst of battle.


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## ??PR?ŞŞ?? (Sep 20, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> He has skill. But not enough skill.
> 
> Zoro taught himself how to cut through anyhing in the midst of battle.



It's things like that which makes things hard to judge. One Piece is farther from reality than the two. Kenshin is limited because his universe is slightly more grounded. Kenshin could probably do much more in a more unrealistic universe like One Piece.


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## Pipboy (Sep 20, 2007)

And thats entirely your imagination.   IE what you want to believe.  I believe that there are people whose will dwarfs kenshins in OP and kenshin would spend all his time angsting over killing people while failing to realize he can't in Odaverse.


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## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> A sure sign of victory is when you opponents have abandoned the pretense that their favored cahracter might win and are using, But so and So is cool, and or So and So's opponent is a bad character.
> 
> Looks like we have Zoro, victory by TKO.



No, its a win for kenshin due to lack of apposing facts


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 20, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> No, its a win for kenshin due to lack of apposing facts



The sad thing is that the only ones who have posted any feats are from the One Piece side.


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## Zephos (Sep 20, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> spam



Seriously. Add to the thread instead of just blatantly showing that you havn't been paying attention.


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## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Why on earth does it not seem to penetrate that with the same stats Zoro STILL has more skill.
> 
> With the same stats.
> 
> ...



And where has kenshin demonstrated the force necessary to pull of those moves? Kenshin fucking brakes a steel sword with HIS level of strength due to DRAW speed and power. With zoro's strength and speed he fucking rapes KTHXBIE


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## Limit_Tester (Sep 20, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> And where has kenshin demonstrated the force necessary to pull of those moves? Kenshin fucking brakes a steel sword with HIS level of strength due to DRAW *speed* and *power*. With zoro's strength and speed he fucking rapes KTHXBIE



I liked this response.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Seriously. Add to the thread instead of just blatantly showing that you havn't been paying attention.



Im still waiting on scans of zoro's 1337 skillz


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## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> I liked this response.



Apparently you missed the DRAW i put there


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## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Because if kenshin had zoro's strength he still couldn't create flying slashes or hear the breath of all things or manifest his ki.   Zoro has the power of destruction, something that Kenshin will never have.



And proof of that is where, up your ass? Thought so


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## Pipboy (Sep 20, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> And where has kenshin demonstrated the force necessary to pull of those moves? Kenshin fucking brakes a steel sword with HIS level of strength due to DRAW speed and power. With zoro's strength and speed he fucking rapes KTHXBIE



I'm sorry what does the breath of all things have to do with strength or speed?  What does creating a physically impossible phenomena have to do with speed or strength?   Did the whole not cutting the palm frond thing fly right over your head... or through it.

Okay?  Thanks Bye.


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## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Zoro has ability as well, pretty much everything he did was self-taught
> 
> Also Kenshin can't hurt Zoro. Zoro is a OP character so his durability is through the roof, Kenshin could do 10x of his strongest attacks and Zoro could laugh it off



Kenshin gains zoro's strength speed and durability, and he can hurt zoro with zoro's level of strength


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## Limit_Tester (Sep 20, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Im still waiting on scans of zoro's 1337 skillz



Ok.

Nigiri Hirameki Maguma - Double Slice Flash Demon Bear
Link removed
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Nitoryuu Iai Rashoumon 
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[Kuroneko]​_Zero No Tsukaima II - 11 [9252D74C].avi

Ittoryuu Hiryuu Kaen
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Santoryuu Ichi/Ni Gorilla Nigorizake
Link removed
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Nitoryuu Nigiri (two slash) : Tourou
Link removed
Ohtourou:
Link removed
Hirameki:
Link removed
Samon:
Link removed

Ittoryuu Shishi Sonson (Lion Song)
Link removed
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Santoryuu Tatsumaki (Tornado)
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Santoryuu Hyoukin Dama 
Link removed

Asura:
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72-Pound Cannon:
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Santoryuu Gyuuki Myuzume
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Ittoryuu 36-point Agony Phoenix -Lash
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Santoryuu 108 Agony Phoenix-Lash
Link removed
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Santoryuu Rock Hunting
Link removed[Null]/ONE-PIECE-330_09.png

Santoryuu Tiger Slash
Link removed
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Two-sword style Eagle
Link removed

Onigiri:
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Toragari
Link removed
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Crab Slasher:
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Flying Dragon Slasher
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Ki reinforcement
Link removed
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Reading moves:
Link removed
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## Dragon (banned) (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I'm sorry what does the breath of all things have to do with strength or speed?  What does creating a physically impossible phenomena have to do with speed or strength?   Did the whole not cutting the palm frond thing fly right over your head... or through it.
> 
> Okay?  Thanks Bye.



dude he has never watched or read one piece. he is just hung on kenshins nutz


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I'm sorry what does the breath of all things have to do with strength or speed?  What does creating a physically impossible phenomena have to do with speed or strength?   Did the whole not cutting the palm frond thing fly right over your head... or through it.
> 
> Okay?  Thanks Bye.



And so now crappy OP logic applies to things? Wow nice. physically impossible what are you smoking?


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Sep 20, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Ok.
> 
> Nigiri Hirameki Maguma - Double Slice Flash Demon Bear
> Link removed
> ...



pwned, and repped for so much pwnage.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Sep 20, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> And so now crappy OP logic applies to things? Wow nice. physically impossible what are you smoking?



w/e he is smoking. i want to smoke some of that shit


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Ok.
> 
> Nigiri Hirameki Maguma - Double Slice Flash Demon Bear
> Link removed
> ...



I said skill not strength, speed or OP's sword logic of putting-your-sword- in-a-different-direction-generating-crazy-ass-shit


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> w/e he is smoking. i want to smoke some of that shit



Apparently you have


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Sep 20, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Apparently you have



LOLLLLLLL. you get rep for that. that cracked me up


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 20, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> And so now crappy OP logic applies to things? Wow nice. physically impossible what are you smoking?



I'm smoking the smoldering remains of your dignity, credibility and ego.

FYI, cutting through steel with thinner steel and not breaking said thinner steel is also physically impossible.  As is 95% of kenshin.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I'm smoking the smoldering remains of your dignity, credibility and ego.
> 
> FYI, cutting through steel with thinner steel and not breaking said thinner steel is also physically impossible.  As is 95% of kenshin.



wtf? that means im smoking that aswell. eww


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 20, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I'm smoking the smoldering remains of your dignity, credibility and ego.
> 
> FYI, cutting through steel with thinner steel and not breaking said thinner steel is also physically impossible.  As is 95% of kenshin.



No, thats just cheap pot man. With enough speed to build momentum and power behind the blow it is possible, just out of human possibility. Are you shitting me, FFS devil fruit shits on logic all the time X 10. And you loose all credibility by resorting to insults my good man, thank you have a good day


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## Pipboy (Sep 21, 2007)

No its not.... its possible to destroy the thicker object but if you have ever seen a ballistics test on anything, even CSI you would know that the bullet is mangled. 

Kenshin might break it, but his sword would be utterly destroyed.


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## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> No its not.... its possible to destroy the thicker object but if you have ever seen a ballistics test on anything, even CSI you would know that the bullet is mangled.
> 
> Kenshin might break it, but his sword would be utterly destroyed.



Doubt it. With enough force and speed its possible. Bullets are not that strong, well some aren't. Besides kenshin logic slightly goes around real world logic. OP logic just shits on it. 2 words, Devil Fruit


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## Proxy (Sep 21, 2007)

Zoro severely pales comparison to Kenshin. Kenshin's speed alone is said to be godlike. Zoro merely fences with fools while the Battousai kills.


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## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Uber-Pwnage said:


> Zoro severely pales comparison to Kenshin. Kenshin's speed alone is said to be godlike. Zoro merely fences with fools while the Battousai kills.



This is not something i want kenshin's side to be represented as... Even i admit that in physical abilities kenshin is greatly raped by zoro. Skill wise though, kenshin wins


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## neodragzero (Sep 21, 2007)

Zoro eats speedsters for lunch and is quite speedy himself. Zoro is more skilled where he has the breath along with the moves that come with his way of destruction fighting style. Kenshin's speed is considered godlike by people that don't move faster than the speed of sound.


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## Pipboy (Sep 21, 2007)

You are a piece of work my goonish child.   However unfortunately for you, Forged steel Rail gun projectiles do the same thing.   

Bullets deform even when they slam into thin bones and sometimes solid organs.   

You have absolutely no idea what the reality of physics are and yet you talk like you do.   how about I tempt you into doing something stupid.   Why not try and ram  afire hydrant with your car, your mostly plastic car.


----------



## Arishem (Sep 21, 2007)

Both of them have abilities that don't make sense in reality, so I don't see how Kenshin is more "skilled." The only thing he is in this comparison starts with a w. Is it that hard to admit when one of your favorite characters is totally outclassed?


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## Proxy (Sep 21, 2007)

How can you say that Zoro is more skilled than Kenshin? Kenshin has mastered his technique and stands above the manslayers as the best. The only thing that could stop him was disease.


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## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> You are a piece of work my goonish child.   However unfortunately for you, Forged steel Rail gun projectiles do the same thing.
> 
> Bullets deform even when they slam into thin bones and sometimes solid organs.
> 
> You have absolutely no idea what the reality of physics are and yet you talk like you do.   how about I tempt you into doing something stupid.   Why not try and ram  afire hydrant with your car, your mostly plastic car.



Are you a moron? A rail gun uses electricity by the way, your knowledge of weaponry is pathetic. Even a handgun's shot would survive organs, maybe even bones. Rifles and assault riffles are too much. There is a huge differents between a handgun bullet, a sword and a sword which is expertly drawn and builds a huge amount of momentum. Go finish your homework before arguing with the big boys


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## neodragzero (Sep 21, 2007)

Uber-Pwnage said:


> How can you say that Zoro is more skilled than Kenshin? Kenshin has mastered his technique and stands above the manslayers as the best. The only thing that could stop him was disease.



Again, greatest in a series where supersonic isn't really the norm nor does being a master of a style equate to beating someone that hasn't. Zoro still has more variety and greater effect having techniques. Kenshin's sword would be scrap metal for him to cut through before he walks away from the bloody mess that's Kenshin.

Oh yeah, Kenshin didn't even really beat Enishi. Kenshin isn't even the strongest fighter of his own series. The same can be said of Zoro but I'm not claiming he's the greatest of all swordsmen in OP nor is he the main character anyway. Zoro crushes Kenshin.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 21, 2007)

rail guns use Elctromagnetics... and how that matters when we are talking about the material integrity of the PROJECTILE, which is pristine when it leaves the barrel but a mangled wreck once it punches THROUGH a thinner object.  

You have never seen a handgun bullet in a human being... i'll chalk you ignorance up to hollywood and explain to you what actually happens.   A bullet that hits a bone will look like a pancake.   A bullet that punches straight through the body, hitting nothing but organs and lands in water will have a deformity.  

I'm tempted to ask how old you are and who educated you, so as to know which parents and which educators are at fault for your excremental knowledge of the real world.


----------



## Perfect Moron (Sep 21, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> No, thats just cheap pot man. With enough speed to build momentum and power behind the blow it is possible, just out of human possibility.



Even you admit that it's due to speed and power. So where's the skill? Show proof of the skill.

All of Kenshin's special moves are mainly based on his speed, strength, and jumping power. Sure, there is some skill to some of them, but all the impressive stuff is due to his physical stats. Zoro wields 3 swords at the same time, now that's skillful.



> There is a huge differents between a handgun bullet, a sword and a sword which is expertly drawn and builds a huge amount of momentum.



There's some skill to the sword drawing, but guess what? That huge momentum is due to his speed, not his skill.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Sep 21, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> You have never seen a handgun bullet in a human being... i'll chalk you ignorance up to hollywood and explain to you what actually happens.   A bullet that hits a bone will look like a pancake.   A bullet that punches straight through the body, hitting nothing but organs and lands in water will have a deformity.



Er, go watch some Mythbusters and get back to me.

A bullet that hits bone will deform.  If it just hits tissue (organs) the only deformities on it will be the firing markings from the gun's barrel.

They dig them out of ballistics gel all the time and they look normal enough.

Of course, bullets are also lead, which is a very soft metal so I'm not sure exactly what this has to do with anything sword related.

But while we're on the topic, in real life most swords need to be replaced after a single fight due to chipping and breaking (at least a prolonged fight).  I can't think of a single fictional story where this is true.  So basically fiction is fiction.


/Edit:
Though I do wonder, perhaps you're thinking Hollow Points instead of normal Full Metal Jacket rounds?  Hollow Points are designed to break apart when they hit any resistance.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 21, 2007)

Depends on which organ it hits.  I have held bullets in my hand that killed a man and all it went through was his liver, stomach and gall bladder.   Granted it hit the grass afterwards but it happens.   The more solid organs like the kidneys and a cirrotic liver can be hard enough to deform, especially if you are talking about an enormous fat man.  As unlike ballistic gel, human beings vary in density from almost nil, lungs, stomach and bowel, to relatively hard, liver, kidneys, heart even to rock solid IE bones.

Mythbusters can bust on that myth all they want but finding a pristine bullet after it hits a human being is so impossible that I have never seen one, nor have any of the EMT's I have worked with, some with over 30 years of violent death under their belt.   

You ever hear the phrase washboard abs?   Wait till you find someone with hard visceral fat packed in every crevase of their 400 pound body.

EDIT:  this of course counts all the munitions that are designed to smash on impact with human viscera, IE Glasers, Black Talons, Hollow Points, Dum Dums... etc


----------



## Basilikos (Sep 21, 2007)

Hmm, quite a lot of fanboyism in this thread. Amusing stuff to read to say the least.


----------



## Segan (Sep 21, 2007)

It kinda goes offtopic. But the point is, what both Zoro and Kenshin are pulling off, would be physically impossible in our world.
A steely sword that cuts massive steel? Without any deformations? Makes no sense because they both have the same hardness.

Hell, I may be no physician, but I wouldn't be surprised that for the speed needed for a sword to cut a steel that is more massive, the sword would deform because of friction before it even hit said object.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Sep 21, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> rail guns use Elctromagnetics... and how that matters when we are talking about the material integrity of the PROJECTILE, which is pristine when it leaves the barrel but a mangled wreck once it punches THROUGH a thinner object.
> 
> You have never seen a handgun bullet in a human being... i'll chalk you ignorance up to hollywood and explain to you what actually happens.   A bullet that hits a bone will look like a pancake.   A bullet that punches straight through the body, hitting nothing but organs and lands in water will have a deformity.
> 
> I'm tempted to ask how old you are and who educated you, so as to know which parents and which educators are at fault for your excremental knowledge of the real world.



thanks MR. pip boy. im learning alot in this thread.


----------



## Dragon (banned) (Sep 21, 2007)

Segan said:


> It kinda goes offtopic. But the point is, what both Zoro and Kenshin are pulling off, would be physically impossible in our world.
> A steely sword that cuts massive steel? Without any deformations? Makes no sense because they both have the same hardness.
> 
> Hell, I may be no physician, but I wouldn't be surprised that for the speed needed for a sword to cut a steel that is more massive, the sword would deform because of friction before it even hit said object.



but the argument is that zoro uses strentgh, and kenshin uses skill to do it.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Sep 21, 2007)

Uber-Pwnage said:


> How can you say that Zoro is more skilled than Kenshin? Kenshin has mastered his technique and stands above the manslayers as the best. The only thing that could stop him was disease.



The disease was filler for that awful OVA..


----------



## Segan (Sep 21, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> but the argument is that zoro uses strentgh, and kenshin uses skill to do it.



Kenshin has superhuman strength, too...he's just not known for it. Cutting steel isn't dependant on skill anyway, skill only matters in combat. And so far, Kenshin has displayed more skill than Zoro.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 21, 2007)

Segan said:


> Kenshin has superhuman strength, too...he's just not known for it. Cutting steel isn't dependant on skill anyway, skill only matters in combat. And so far, Kenshin has displayed more skill than Zoro.



How has Kenshin shown more skill? Could you please point what exactly does he have that even rivals the breath and fly sword attacks?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Perfect Moron said:


> Even you admit that it's due to speed and power. So where's the skill? Show proof of the skill.
> 
> All of Kenshin's special moves are mainly based on his speed, strength, and jumping power. Sure, there is some skill to some of them, but all the impressive stuff is due to his physical stats. Zoro wields 3 swords at the same time, now that's skillful.
> 
> ...



Draw speed and power. There is a diffrents in abilities of drawing a sword and physical abilities FFS. And wtf? Proper sword drawing is extremly difficult, kenshin's speed draw is pure skill, it utilises the sheath to launch the sword much faster than it normally would. That itself is more impressive then zoro's way of tilting his swords and unleashing haxed moves


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> rail guns use Elctromagnetics... and how that matters when we are talking about the material integrity of the PROJECTILE, which is pristine when it leaves the barrel but a mangled wreck once it punches THROUGH a thinner object.
> 
> You have never seen a handgun bullet in a human being... i'll chalk you ignorance up to hollywood and explain to you what actually happens.   A bullet that hits a bone will look like a pancake.   A bullet that punches straight through the body, hitting nothing but organs and lands in water will have a deformity.
> 
> I'm tempted to ask how old you are and who educated you, so as to know which parents and which educators are at fault for your excremental knowledge of the real world.



Null null credibility due to resorting to pathetic insults. I can easily say anything i want, but it does not make it fact. The size shape and density of a bullet and a sword are completely different. And a bullet depends on piecing damage where as a katana mostly depends o0n cutting FFS, you can't compare the two. A bullet forces all of its mass in to one point so it would be easier for it to deform. Stop using retard logic. That being said, i do doubt that it is possible to cut steel with steel without ANY deformities, but kenshin  cuts less of it showing that he is way closer to logic. Thank you, have a nice day at preschool


----------



## RTSJesus (Sep 21, 2007)

Kenshin as a kid=win. Simply untouchable.

Battosai kenshin wins with ease sissy kenshin runs away.


----------



## Fulong (Sep 21, 2007)

This threads is totally a flame bait, and massive fail.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Fulong said:


> This threads is totally a flame bait, and massive fail.



How so? Due to a OP character loosing? More OPtardness?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

RTSJesus said:


> Kenshin as a kid=win. Simply untouchable.
> 
> Battosai kenshin wins with ease sissy kenshin runs away.



Your sig is fucking win


----------



## Fulong (Sep 21, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> How so? Due to a OP character loosing? More OPtardness?



Yeah that's pretty much flame bait material there.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Fulong said:


> Yeah that's pretty much flame bait material there.



No, its someone going against the complete control OP has over the better power scaled shonen mangas


----------



## Zephos (Sep 21, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> No, its someone going against the complete control OP has over the better power scaled shonen mangas



No, your pretty much just masturbating while flamebaiting since Pipboy and Limit Tester havn't noticed your responses yet.

Its really pretty gross.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Zephos said:


> No, your pretty much just masturbating while flamebaiting since Pipboy and Limit Tester havn't noticed your responses yet.
> 
> Its really pretty gross.



So that is what you do in your spare time? Do not pin your hobbies on me dude


----------



## Fulong (Sep 21, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> No, its someone going against the complete control OP has over the better power scaled shonen mangas



Wait so...just because OP dominate Narutoverse so easily mean that it's the strongest verse? OPverse as a whole in comparision of power...is weaksauce compared to the verses such as Marvel, DC, Image, etc.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Fulong said:


> Wait so...just because OP dominate Narutoverse so easily mean that it's the strongest verse? OPverse as a whole in comparision of power...is weaksauce compared to the verses such as Marvel, DC, Image, etc.



No, i mean how people keep comparing the better power scaled mangas with the shitty scaling of OP. Im showing that a weaker shonen manga character *can* beat the OP machine. And i mean OP dominates the lower half of the food chain.


----------



## Shoddragon (Sep 21, 2007)

DevilYusuke said:


> rzoro has way more skill then kenshin. i cant think of one swordsman with more skill then zoro




kenshin easily has the skills and the brains. fact is zoro has the speed and power, which is all he really needs. speedblitzh for zoro


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Shoddragon said:


> kenshin easily has the skills and the brains. fact is zoro has the speed and power, which is all he really needs. speedblitzh for zoro



This is not a match of strength or speed, its a match of skill and intelligents


----------



## Fulong (Sep 21, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> No, i mean how people keep comparing the better power scaled mangas with the shitty scaling of OP. Im showing that a weaker shonen manga character *can* beat the OP machine. And i mean OP dominates the lower half of the food chain.



Stacking the odd for that character doesn't really prove anything except that character need major buff to beat that character.

I think I should make a Lex vs Superman thread except that Lex get a flying brick powerset, and a Kyptonite so Lex *can* beat the Superman machine lawlz.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Fulong said:


> Stacking the odd for that character doesn't really prove anything except that character need major buff to beat that character.
> 
> I think I should make a Lex vs Superman thread except that Lex get a flying brick powerset, and a Kyptonite so Lex *can* beat the Superman machine lawlz.



Its a free country man. Unless your a communist... Anyway, im also saying that the sword logic/fights in OP suck ass. "Lookiee i put teh swordz up to get haxor movez" doesn't fly with logic, as does the rest of OP


----------



## Zephos (Sep 21, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> No, i mean how people keep comparing the better power scaled mangas with the shitty scaling of OP. Im showing that a weaker shonen manga character *can* beat the OP machine. And i mean OP dominates the lower half of the food chain.





Flamefang said:


> Its a free country man. Unless your a communist... Anyway, im also saying that the sword logic/fights in OP suck ass. "Lookiee i put teh swordz up to get haxor movez" doesn't fly with logic, as does the rest of OP



The exact same thing is true of Kenshin.
At least One Piece makes no attempt at being realistic.
Kenshin would have you beleive its "SERIOUZ REALISM SWORDZ".


----------



## Fulong (Sep 21, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Its a free country man. Unless your a communist... Anyway, im also saying that the sword logic/fights in OP suck ass. "Lookiee i put teh swordz up to get haxor movez" doesn't fly with logic, as does the rest of OP



You do realize that logic in OP barely exist? While Kenshin is a more realistic manga compared to OP. 

Also doesn't Kenshin rely on his speed to do some of his technique?


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 21, 2007)

The moment you have a samurai in Kenshin yelling out the name of an attack while doing that said attack, it's already lost being realistic. Vagabond truly deserves the realistic label when it comes to fights in comparison.

I see no real explanation on how exactly Kenshin is more skilled than Zoro. Zoro having skill that doesn't rely upon his physical capability as nicely illustrated for the breath.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Zephos said:


> The exact same thing is true of Kenshin.
> At least One Piece makes no attempt at being realistic.
> Kenshin would have you beleive its "SERIOUZ REALISM SWORDZ".



Wtf? Its completely different. OP has one major explanation for everything- Devil Fruit. What kind of shitty writting is that? "LOOK iy eit teh DVIL FRUIT, now im teh pwnzor, IM GUNNA BE PIRATE KING!" At least kenshin has some meaning and tries to be logical. And kenshin at least has a semi logical explanation and moves, where as OP shreds cliffs but can't cut "teh 1337 stealzor" and what explanation do they give? Some breath crap? Common. And adults like realism, you will learn this in 10-18 years from now, when you do you will understand what i am saying.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> The moment you have a samurai in Kenshin yelling out the name of an attack while doing that said attack, it's already lost being realistic. Vagabond truly deserves the realistic label when it comes to fights in comparison.



And OP doesn't yell the attacks? The attacks are told so that the viewers of the manga/anime understand wtf they are doing.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 21, 2007)

Fulong said:


> You do realize that logic in OP barely exist? While Kenshin is a more realistic manga compared to OP.
> 
> Also doesn't Kenshin rely on his speed to do some of his technique?



He relies partially on speed, but he maximizes his physical abilities with sword skills


----------



## Fulong (Sep 21, 2007)

Kenshin is one of the realistic *shonen* manga...but is no way in hell realistic in general.


----------



## Zephos (Sep 21, 2007)

> Wtf? Its completely different. OP has one major explanation for everything- Devil Fruit.



Not really.
Oda goes to painstaking lengths to explain some of his fantasy.



> "LOOK iy eit teh DVIL FRUIT, now im teh pwnzor, IM GUNNA BE PIRATE KING!"



Good thing One Piece's plot dosen't resolve around Devil Fruits. Do you even read it?



> At least kenshin has some meaning and tries to be logical.



Kenshin is a clownish mockery of samurai mangas. 
Its the 50 cent of samurai manga.



> where as OP shreds cliffs but can't cut "teh 1337 stealzor" and what explanation do they give?



Shreds cliffs? For the love of god, read the series before talking about it.



> adults like realism, you will learn this in 10-18 years from now, when you do you will understand what i am saying.



Congratulations, you have made the excellent example of the 14 year old idea of adulthood.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 21, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> And OP doesn't yell the attacks?


I don't remember labeling OP as realistic. Nice try.


> The attacks are told so that the viewers of the manga/anime understand wtf they are doing.


Funny how I don't remember that being necessary for Vagabond, Hunter X Hunter, etc. One Piece isn't being pushed to be realistic.

That's all pretty much besides the point. Zoro still has more than Kenshin. Zoro being the guy with the breath skill. The guy with flying slash attacks.


> adults like realism, you will learn this in 10-18 years from now, when you do you will understand what i am saying.


What Zephos said. Claiming that adults like realism in that absolutist fashion screams immature.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> The moment you have a samurai in Kenshin yelling out the name of an attack while doing that said attack, it's already lost being realistic. Vagabond truly deserves the realistic label when it comes to fights in comparison.
> 
> I see no real explanation on how exactly Kenshin is more skilled than Zoro. Zoro having skill that doesn't rely upon his physical capability as nicely illustrated for the breath.





Zephos said:


> Not really.
> Oda goes to painstaking lengths to explain some of his fantasy.
> 
> 
> ...



1 Only because he drags it into shit so deep that he has to explain it. 

2 No, it revolves around a kid wanting to be pirate king, how interesting. Ill go watch the paint dry

3 Meh, its decent. There are better, there are worse. It did good for its time. If i could find better i would read them. Kenshin is one of those mangas that you have to know to know anything, its a classic.

4 Zoro was cutting boulders in Alabasta, then he learns to breather and shreds a train, nice. 

5 And when you reach a two digit age you will be that much closer to experiencing it.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> 2 No, it resolves around a kid wanting to be pirate king, how interesting. Ill go watch the paint dry


Resolves? I suggest a dictionary. It's pretty obvious you don't have much a clue about what you're talking about. You trying to condescend anyone here is just funny.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> I don't remember labeling OP as realistic. Nice try.
> 
> Funny how I don't remember that being necessary for Vagabond, Hunter X Hunter, etc. One Piece isn't being pushed to be realistic.
> 
> ...



1 I never said you did, im simply stating facts. Fuck, at least Kenshin tries, for its budget and age it did pretty good. OP just pulls shit out of its ass and ads flash to eat and the kids eat it up.

2 W/e, its not the best, its decent. At least it tries. I don't really care if someone yells their attack, and usualy its somewhat in the person's arrogant character.

3 Breath skills are just OP's way of covering its ass after screwing around. Flying slashes? Big deal. Proof of kenshin not being able to do that with zoro's physical abilities? 

4 Anything original? No? Thank you come again


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

> 1 Only because he drags it into shit so deep that he has to explain it.



No, again read the series.



> 2 No, it resolves around a kid wanting to be pirate king, how interesting. Ill go watch the paint dry



So you admit you havn't read it and are talking out of your ass?



> 3 Meh, its decent. There are better, there are worse. It did good for its time. If i could find better i would read them. Kenshin is one of those mangas that you have to know to know anything, its a classic.



Absolute bullshit, you obviously ahvn't read any other samurai mangas, not samurai Deeper Kyo, I mean _real_ samurai mangas. Name Kenshin's place in manga history.
Go ahead.



> 4 Zoro was cutting boulders in Alabasta, then he learns to breather and shreds a train, nice.



Steel > Boulders.
Whats your point?



> 5 And when you reach a two digit age you will be that much closer to experiencing it.



Your insults are kind of like a cat puffing up. They make your posts look bigger and tougher, but on closer inspection they're as small and weak as ever they were just filled with fake attitude.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Kenshin is blade of the immortal for children.   Some of us however enjoy more carefree and pure things for what they are.   

Of course you don't get that, neither do you get that Kenshin is just as reliant on speed and strength as Zoro is, and doesn't have nearly the arsenal of snazzy moves.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> Resolves? I suggest a dictionary. It's pretty obvious you don't have much a clue about what you're talking about. You trying to condescend anyone here is just funny.



Wow, your really scraping the bottom huh, picking on typos is a sure fire signal of desperate fanboyism.


----------



## Shoddragon (Sep 22, 2007)

ok I'm going to ignore OP vs kenshin manga because rurouni kenshin.,....... it was ok, but OP is much much better. that aside, going on skill, kenshin has far more experience, he even had an apprentice. Stronger style? depends on what you mean, if by you mean both have equal strengh and speed and which lets say skill would do the MOST damage, I would say kenshin. stronger style comparing kenshin regular to regular zoro, both current? Zoro's style is stronger only because he is stronger, but stronger attacks in general should be from kenshin.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> 1 I never said you did, im simply stating facts. Fuck, at least Kenshin tries, for its budget and age it did pretty good. OP just pulls shit out of its ass and ads flash to eat and the kids eat it up.


So you curse, claim a subjective that Kenshin did pretty good with what it did, and claim another subjective that OP just pulls stuff out of its butt. Someone needs some growing up.


> 2 W/e, its not the best, its decent. At least it tries. I don't really care if someone yells their attack, and usualy its somewhat in the person's arrogant character.


Kenshin doesn't strike me as being arrogant and he yells his attack all the time. An unrealistic historical fiction is still an unrealistic historical fiction.


> 3 Breath skills are just OP's way of covering its ass after screwing around. Flying slashes? Big deal.


His only defense; saying "Big deal." So you basically have nothing.


> Proof of kenshin not being able to do that with zoro's physical abilities?


Proof that Kenshin has the breath thing that's pretty much a requirement level for doing these attacks? Zoro does these attacks based in good part on his swordman's spirit. Good luck explaining how exactly Kenshin is suppose to manifest what Zoro did for W7/Enies Lobby.


> 4 Anything original? No? Thank you come again


It would help if you didn't talk to yourself. Come back after we have forgotten your "paint dry" and "adults like realism" cracks.


> Wow, your really scraping the bottom huh, picking on typos is a sure fire signal of desperate fanboyism.


I thought adults are suppose to be good picking up their own typos...Seriously, I'm pretty sure I put down more than just "Resolve?" You pretty much have shown yourself to have not read OP much, if at all, and throw repeatitive tantrums and already started suggesting that someone is a fanboy. Do you really have anything more to contradict yourself?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> No, again read the series.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1 Uhh, yea it is. Devil Fruit, fake sword skill BS

2 No, i admit i would rather watch paint dry than read OP

3 Well, i'm not too familiar with all of the manga world, and probably do not know much, but that because, you know, i have a job that takes time, you will learn how that works in a number of years, enjoy

4 No, steel and rock could be very different and in cases much stronger than steel, it depends on the boulder, another mistake moving on. 

5 Huh? Insults? I'm expressing my opinion. I suppose it takes a level of maturity that you have not reached, and will not in a number of years, to understand.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 22, 2007)

Edit: Actually, scratch what I saiduntil the Op defines skill, so far as it can be compared between verses with gigantic power gaps.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Kenshin is blade of the immortal for children.   Some of us however enjoy more carefree and pure things for what they are.
> 
> Of course you don't get that, neither do you get that Kenshin is just as reliant on speed and strength as Zoro is, and doesn't have nearly the arsenal of snazzy moves.



Sure, believe what you want. Far be it for me to argue with someone who rejects reality and substitutes their own. Kensin amplifies his restricted human abilities with mastered skill, where as zoro charges in and pulls shit out of his ass, which in OP results in insta-win.


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

First things first, lets try a fillerless version without all your hilarious attempts at disses



Flamefang said:


> 1 Uhh, yea it is. Devil Fruit, fake sword skill BS
> 
> 4 No, steel and rock could be very different and in cases much stronger than steel, it depends on the boulder, another mistake moving on.



Yup. Alot leaner now.

1. Read the series or shut up about it. Very simple concept. 

4. Oh really? Do you even know the state of the steel were talking about?
Or come to think of it, what boulder are you talking about?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> So you curse, claim a subjective that Kenshin did pretty good with what it did, and claim another subjective that OP just pulls stuff out of its butt. Someone needs some growing up.
> 
> Kenshin doesn't strike me as being arrogant and he yells his attack all the time. An unrealistic historical fiction is still an unrealistic historical fiction.
> 
> ...



1 What? Cursing is a big deal? Do your parents prohibit that kind of language? Kids these days... OP, it has a very childish base topped of with flashy art and language that automatically makes it mature, nice strategy. 

2 Again, the series already started informing the viewer, its not going to change its strategy with kenshin. And he doesn't even use flashy moves all the time. 

3 What? The opening argument was flying slashes, how does that have any value? Kenshin has speed draw if you want.

4 Uhhh, no. Kenshin does not follow the same shitty and unexplainable laws as OP so in the OBD he needs no breath to cut steel because he can cut steel. There you go, happy?

5 What? If you do not understand who i am talking to it is nobody's fault but your own and your teachers, but for you grade 5 is probably very difficult so i will let it slide

6 Wait what? What am i a fanboy of? You do not even have any argument there and just because i go against your beloved god, One Piss you go off the wire. Not everyone likes childish and illogical crap, you will learn in a few years, probably 10, when you reach adulthood.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> First things first, lets try a fillerless version without all your hilarious attempts at disses
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice, really i don't know why i bother, since you are obviously illiterate, but i should not be so hard on you poor boy right? 

1 Ive read the series, not entirely but really, im tired of this crap. Kenshin may not be my ideal manga or first choice but at least it knew what it was doing.

4 What? Im saying that rock can be harder then steel. And it depends on what kind of steel, since steel is an alloy and could have different components added depending on its use. But i suppose i just spoiled some chemistry for you, i bet you were so looking forward to grade 7, it was only 5 years away for you .


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Sure, believe what you want. Far be it for me to argue with someone who rejects reality and substitutes their own. Kensin amplifies his restricted human abilities with mastered skill, where as zoro charges in and pulls shit out of his ass, which in OP results in insta-win.



I'm sorry you don't win and you don't get the home game, you don't even get the fucking ricearoni.  The day that A steel nub failed to crack Sanosuke's skull and the day that kenshin cut his Zanbato was the day that kenshin gave up any pretense of reality.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> 1 What? Cursing is a big deal? Do your parents prohibit that kind of language? Kids these days... OP, it has a very childish base topped of with flashy art and language that automatically makes it mature, nice strategy.


You don't seem to know much about the series in question. Do you have anything to add that isn't subjective ramble?


> 2 Again, the series already started informing the viewer, its not going to change its strategy with kenshin. And he doesn't even use flashy moves all the time.


And Zoro doesn't have his attacks being named all the time. This leads nowhere to the topic at hand.


> 3 What? The opening argument was flying slashes, how does that have any value? Kenshin has speed draw if you want.


Keyword being speed. While Zoro has more impressive techniques of skill.


> 4 Uhhh, no. Kenshin does not follow the same shitty and unexplainable laws as OP so in the OBD he needs no breath to cut steel because he can cut steel. There you go, happy?


I don't remember Kenshin cutting through a steel man. I don't remember Kenshin cutting such a lump of steel much less anything of higher density at his choosing and being able to find an object without seeing it. Zoro and Ohm still remain as guys that can detect and predict things even without sight. Zoro having a skill that allows him to cut things of steel density and beyond.


> 5 What? If you do not understand who i am talking to it is nobody's fault but your own and your teachers, but for you grade 5 is probably very difficult so i will let it slide


Again, please explain how "watching paint dry" was original? You still haven't done much beyond contradicting yourself and mouthing off about something you don't know about.


> 6 Wait what? What am i a fanboy of?


Funny how I never said you were a fanboy at all. You contradict yourself. You don't have to be a fanboy to do that. Just you or anyone like you is more than enough.


> You do not even have any argument there and just because i go against your beloved god, One Piss you go off the wire. Not everyone likes childish and illogical crap, you will learn in a few years, probably 10, when you reach adulthood.


And now you insult a series, more subjective rambling, and another kid joke. You aren't doing much here with your contradictions and further bile.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I'm sorry you don't win and you don't get the home game, you don't even get the fucking ricearoni.  The day that A steel nub failed to crack Sanosuke's skull and the day that kenshin cut his Zanbato was the day that kenshin gave up any pretense of reality.



Wait, so you are saying that a few un realistic events make kenshin totally unrealistic? Its a shonen manga, things could have been done better. They were still done a lot better than OP which didn't even *try* to have any realism in it. The problem with that is inconsistency, some punk ass goes and beats these formidable guys. Wtf is this, DBZ? We already had one DB, we don't need another one shitting it up. And again, there is a legion of morons who think it is the best thing since sliced bread. Popularity =/= quality. If that was true, than DB would be a lot better than most good manga. Why? Because it attracts the kids. Kids like flashy moves, kids like crazy ass strong heroes. So have fun reading your kiddy manga, oh right, for you it is age appropriate, sorry my fault


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Yes!   Wow! amazing!  Unrealism makes things unrealistic!


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 22, 2007)

> The problem with that is inconsistency, some punk ass goes and beats these formidable guys.


Proof you don't know what inconsistency means and never really read the series. You really don't have anything to say on the main topic.


----------



## ~Shin~ (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> 6 Wait what? What am i a fanboy of? You do not even have any argument there and just because i go against your beloved god, One Piss you go off the wire. Not everyone likes childish and illogical crap, you will learn in a few years, probably 10, when you reach adulthood.



Oh yeah I forgot that RK was the pinnacle of deep philosophical drama with intriguing character depth and development. 

Seriously if you think RK is above the "childish and illogical crap" then you have much more to read, kid.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> You don't seem to know much about the series in question. Do you have anything to add that isn't subjective ramble?
> 
> And Zoro doesn't have his attacks being named all the time. This leads nowhere to the topic at hand.
> 
> ...



1 Dude, you must be a mind reader since i was just about to say the same thing to you! 

2 What topic at hand? The name of a move? Nitpick much?

3 How does being able to create an areal slash skill? I might just start being an ass to you and responding in your manner. 

4 The fact is kenshin sliced through steel. It doesn't matter what form it was. Your point is moot.  

5 Wait, what? Original? The time called for it and it was said. It wasn't meant to be original. 

6 And i contradicted myself where... Oh, now i get it. You don't know what the word contradict means! Thats why you were throwing it around where it was not needed. To contradict one self is to go against a statement said by the persona. I have not said anything that contradicts myself, stop reaching in your ass so much

7 I can summarize this easily - "Blah blah blah i have nothing to say so i will say some shit to make myself look cool but that has no value to the conversation" there we go.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Yes!   Wow! amazing!  Unrealism makes things unrealistic!



I bet it took you a few years to grasp the concept, good job!


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

~Shin~ said:


> Oh yeah I forgot that RK was the pinnacle of deep philosophical drama with intriguing character depth and development.
> 
> Seriously if you think RK is above the "childish and illogical crap" then you have much more to read, kid.



And i bet for you "IM GUNNA BE TEH PIRATE KING!" was the turning point of your life, and the summery of your very existence that inspired you to become the great man that you are today and to educate the ignorant to better the world and create a future that we would all be proud of, ammarite?


----------



## ~Shin~ (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> And i bet for you "IM GUNNA BE TEH PIRATE KING!" was the turning point of your life, and the summery of your very existence that inspired you to become the great man that you are today and to educate the ignorant to better the world and create a future that we would all be proud of, ammarite?



Yeah feel free to stop posting if all you have is red herring fallacy crap. 

In fact I'm not even a big fan of OP. I just felt like saying that because you think your knowledge over literary works is so superior over others when your definition of peak literary work is Rurouni Kenshin. 

I can name tons of manga alone that literally shit on RK.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

~Shin~ said:


> Yeah feel free to stop posting if all you have is red herring fallacy crap.
> 
> In fact I'm not even a big fan of OP. I just felt like saying that because you think your knowledge over literary works is so superior over others when your definition of peak literary work is Rurouni Kenshin.
> 
> I can name tons of manga alone that literally shit on RK.



Wait, what? What are you smoking pal? When have i said that RK was the peak of literacy? I don't even consider manga to be peak literacy, and RK isn't even the best manga. There are far better manga, and there are far better books my friend. Not to mention that my post was more on topic than yours, and it was quite amusing to write


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> I bet it took you a few years to grasp the concept, good job!



And yet you haven't yet grasped that the ink on paper fantasies have nothing to do with the reality of the world, thus the arbitrary ideal of skill that you have kenshin set at is nothing short of a grand masturbation, an autoerotic fantasy in which there is only an imaginary woman.   Zoro has better techniques that do better things.   Even without their power.   Grasp than and weep for your kingdom is dust.


----------



## Tash (Sep 22, 2007)

Dag this thread became a flame war in a hurry.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> And yet you haven't yet grasped that the ink on paper fantasies have nothing to do with the reality of the world, thus the arbitrary ideal of skill that you have kenshin set at is nothing short of a grand masturbation, an autoerotic fantasy in which there is only an imaginary woman.   Zoro has better techniques that do better things.   Even without their power.   Grasp than and weep for your kingdom is dust.



Orly? Omg, thx for showng me teh lite master! Fuck that, lets do more pro creative things, like do your job, spend time with the kids, or in your case finish your homework! But really, that post didn't even contain one point and was simply a bag of air, not even amusing to read  You disappoint me boy, i thought youth had more imagination


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Swajio said:


> Dag this thread became a flame war in a hurry.



I blame the lack of education  Anyway, I have to go, a man needs his rest after all. Try to not display too much idiotism without me, k? Its funnier to read it fresh


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang vs. Everyone with common sense....

CAN HE WIN?


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

My job has me working 60 hours a week and I still have time to keep a rash teenager in line.   

Lets review.   Number of arguments in your post 

ZERO

Hmmm, let me count that again?

ZERO.   

Number of arguments in my post 2.

1.   Kenshin is inherently unrealistic as its realism is limited by the knowledge of the creator about reality which is by its nature incomplete.   Furthermore he makes a choice to delibrately break some laws of reality to further his story telling reliquishing all grasp to realism and instead compromising with "not very powerful fantasy"

2.  Your definition of skill being predicated on the faulty image that you have of the realism of the manga, is thus completely empty.  Furthermore even if realism was to be assumed to be more in kenshin the fact is that this is a fight in which speed and strength are equal and thus the only difference is technique, which is the definition of skill and in that category Kenshin doesn't have better techniques, even discounting the extra power that Zoro's strength and speed give him.

So now on monday when I go back to my job you will once again be free to in the day time spew your chimpish cries, but until then your ass belongs to me.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Flamefang vs. Everyone with common sense....
> 
> CAN HE WIN?



If by common sense, you mean fanboyism, then no . But i will not give up! I need to educate the youth


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> If by common sense, you mean fanboyism, then no . But i will not give up! I need to educate the youth



One post up from yours is Pipboy handing you your ass.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

I'm willing to take bets on how old he is.   I say, maximum is 17, I am offering my best odds on him being 14, his level of grandiose self worth and inability to form cogent thought says teenage prime time to me.  HOwever I think there is an outside chance that he is a below average 18 year old intoxicated by the fact that he can buy porn and cigarettes.


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

I'll say he's 13 and he's experiencing that 'special time' for the first time.


----------



## Tash (Sep 22, 2007)

Ewwww puberty.:S
j/k


----------



## Segan (Sep 22, 2007)

Look now, you all are derailing the thread so far off it's not funny anymore. Let's keep it constructive, ok?


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

This thread is a zombie.   It only keeps on walking because this particular zombie doesn't have any brains to blow out.


----------



## Morpheus (Sep 22, 2007)

Easily Kenshin in terms of pure skill, even though i'm a Zoro fan.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> My job has me working 60 hours a week and I still have time to keep a rash teenager in line.
> 
> Lets review.   Number of arguments in your post
> 
> ...



Your an adult? The i might as well be Jesus himself! Scans of your so called adulthood, oh wait, you can't. What people say has no meaning/grounds, welcome to the internet, i will try to make your stay as informative as possible, please fasten your special children's seat belt to prevent the knowledge from currupting your mind, and have a nice day

Number of valid arguments from me, 1

Number of arguments from you, 2
Number of arguments from you that have any value, and are not just opinions, 0

Kenshin is mostly realistic, making it semi realistic, but again semi unrealistic. Should those moments affect the series as a whole? Hell no. They are mostly PIS or for entertainment purposes which means they should be disregarded. Thats like saying Nami can cut Luffy because of the time she poked him with a needle and he cried. Does this mean a pin can cut through Luffy's skin? No its for childish amusement. Then there are some moments when RK stretches reality, if that is all you have to go by to make your argument afloat, then you are a pathetic person. Most shonen action mangas tend to bend/stretch reality slightly. I have a hard time finding one where everything is totally real and where the title of main character does not give you insta win/advantage, and where there is no PIS or CIS. Feel free to tell me one though, infact, i encourage, even challenge you.

Now for your 2 so-called arguments

1 Basicly you are saying its completely unrealistic, which it semi is, again all you have to go by is exaggeration and singular moments. Read my paragraph.

2 The skill thing you said is all about opinions, which hold no value. Show me some proof of Zoro's moves, and then, show me logical (not OP logic that shits on reality and logic mind you) proof that kenshin would not be able to replicate, if not improve those moves. All you have to go by is speculation and oppinions, which hold no real ground making them *invalid*. 

What? My argument is just as good, if not better than yours. I handled it a muture way and countered your points with my own instead of just saying "blah blah blah, you have no proof". But maybe i put it in terms you won't understand, oh well.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I'm willing to take bets on how old he is.   I say, maximum is 17, I am offering my best odds on him being 14, his level of grandiose self worth and inability to form cogent thought says teenage prime time to me.  HOwever I think there is an outside chance that he is a below average 18 year old intoxicated by the fact that he can buy porn and cigarettes.



So you summarized your own existence right there, nice job


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> This thread is a zombie.   It only keeps on walking because this particular zombie doesn't have any brains to blow out.



And whose fault is that?


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Triple Posting?

Nice.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Triple Posting?
> 
> Nice.



The first post would be hindered by it, and i did not see the other stuff. I just didn't think of putting it in one, because im lazy


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> The first post would be hindered by it, and i did not see the other stuff. I just didn't think of putting it in one, because im lazy



There is an edit button you know.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> There is an edit button you know.



I thought of combining the posts after i already posted them.


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> I thought of combining the posts after i already posted them.



You can't do that.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> You can't do that.



What are you talking about?


----------



## Bender (Sep 22, 2007)

As long as Kenshin's opponent shows emotions his moves are readable


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 22, 2007)

Blaze of Glory said:


> As long as Kenshin's opponent shows emotions his moves are readable



So he'll read from the get go that Zoro will send his way a long range technique? Not to mention that move that Zoro did to slice at Kaku's back even though he was using kamie. Enishi was a man of plenty emotion yet his first bout with Kenshin pretty much has him beating on Kenshin, with Kenshin having a look of surprise multiple times. Reading moves based off emotions indeed... Thanks for sticking to the topic though, Blaze of Glory.


----------



## Bender (Sep 22, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> So he'll read from the get go that Zoro will send his way a long range technique? Not to mention that move that Zoro did to slice at Kaku's back even though he was using kamie. Enishi was a man of plenty emotion yet his first bout with Kenshin pretty much has him beating on Kenshin, with Kenshin having a look of surprise multiple times.



Enishi's style was naturally born to kick the living shit out of Hiten Mitsurugi. Zoro's style lacks precision and is just hack n' slash and swinging the crap outta people as seen in his fight with Mihawk. Kenshin can easily see through his moves.



			
				neodragzero said:
			
		

> Reading moves based off emotions indeed... Thanks for sticking to the topic though, Blaze of Glory.



No problem.


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 22, 2007)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Enishi's style was naturally born to kick the living shit out of Hiten Mitsurugi. Zoro's style lacks precision and is just hack n' slash and swinging the crap outta people as seen in his fight with Mihawk. Kenshin can easily see through his moves.


And how long ago was the fight with Mihawk? Zoro is a lot different from back then. I would consider it precise when you cut the back of an opponent that makes their body float like paper to make it incredibly hard to hit them. Among other things Zoro has done after that fight till now.


----------



## Serp (Sep 22, 2007)

I believe that kenshin has more skill, But flamefag just killed it trying to prove it


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Serp said:


> I believe that kenshin has more skill, But flamefag just killed it trying to prove it



Thats too bad


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Your an adult? The i might as well be Jesus himself! Scans of your so called adulthood, oh wait, you can't. What people say has no meaning/grounds, welcome to the internet, i will try to make your stay as informative as possible, please fasten your special children's seat belt to prevent the knowledge from currupting your mind, and have a nice day
> 
> Number of valid arguments from me, 1
> 
> ...



So you say, but you haven't offered any evidence to the contrary.   Opinion would mean that these aren't infact impossible to physically duplicate feats and that they are not works of fiction.

So?  Are they works of Fiction?
Are the Not possible to physically duplicate?

Congrats, my arguments are now factually sound and you are just touting your ignorance as canon.



> Kenshin is mostly realistic, making it semi realistic, but again semi unrealistic. Should those moments affect the series as a whole? Hell no. They are mostly PIS or for entertainment purposes which means they should be disregarded. Thats like saying Nami can cut Luffy because of the time she poked him with a needle and he cried. Does this mean a pin can cut through Luffy's skin? No its for childish amusement.



Eichiro Oda himself has stated that the reason Nami is actually capable of harming luffy is that they share a psychic bond of friendship.  You might as well ask why the greatest swordsmanin the word can dodge a fucking daikon radish.



> Then there are some moments when RK stretches reality, if that is all you have to go by to make your argument afloat, then you are a pathetic person. Most shonen action mangas tend to bend/stretch reality slightly. I have a hard time finding one where everything is totally real and where the title of main character does not give you insta win/advantage, and where there is no PIS or CIS. Feel free to tell me one though, infact, i encourage, even challenge you.



Dur, because reality doesn't determine skill.   Skill determines skill, the abilty to do things that are beyond the level of an ordinary being.   When Natsume Aya cuts and peels an apple without looking in one motion she is showing more skill than Kenshin, the fact that she has magic powers also doesn't subtract from this.  Especially since the magic skills zoro gets comes from his skill.




> And yet skill is not a matter of realism its
> Now for your 2 so-called arguments
> 
> 1 Basicly you are saying its completely unrealistic, which it semi is, again all you have to go by is exaggeration and singular moments. Read my paragraph.



Is it exagerration that Zoro can hear the breath of all things.  Does strength alone let you create flying slashes?  No and No.   All fiction is essentially unrealistic and you need to grasp that the fact that one is less powerful and attempts to be more realistic doesn't make its skill worth more.



> 2 The skill thing you said is all about opinions, which hold no value. Show me some proof of Zoro's moves, and then, show me logical (not OP logic that shits on reality and logic mind you) proof that kenshin would not be able to replicate, if not improve those moves. All you have to go by is speculation and oppinions, which hold no real ground making them *invalid*.



Wrong.  Because I am pointing out that Technique is skill and Zoro has techniques that are beyond kenshins imagination, even without the power behind them.   Thats what this battle is.  A battle with speed and strength set equal.   And guess what, that leaves zoro's better technique behind.



> What? My argument is just as good, if not better than yours. I handled it a muture way and countered your points with my own instead of just saying "blah blah blah, you have no proof". But maybe i put it in terms you won't understand, oh well.



Your argument is non-existant and you only bother to state it between juvenille outbursts of pique.  Do you think that by snarking about my age you are going to magically make me any younger?  Do you think the next time I walk into a bar and order a Gimlet they will magically not take my cash because I am suddenly younger?

Your argument is "Kenshin is more skilled because he is more realistic."  But thats not a valid argument because skill isn't a realistic quality at that level.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> So you say, but you haven't offered any evidence to the contrary.   Opinion would mean that these aren't infact impossible to physically duplicate feats and that they are not works of fiction.
> 
> So?  Are they works of Fiction?
> Are the Not possible to physically duplicate?
> ...



1No, opinions could mean anything. I might believe that a guy with a sniper rifle can kill zoro, it doesn't make it true. Opinions are absolutely invalid unless supported by hard evidence, of which you fail. So, in that regard, the opening has no real value and are just words repeating themselves, congrats for failing. 

2Uhh, no that just crap that he uses to cover his ass. The fact that a pin could hurt luffy was so ridicules and inconsistent with his other feats that the creator had to make up something to make it seem less moronic, which he failed at. A pin can hurt luffy by your statement right, okay moving on. 

3Nice work at completely missreading my post, damn the educational system has really gone down hill. Your statement has sno relation to mine, and its the old song that you keep trying to sell. Pathetic

4Yes and Yes. No, you need to accept the fact that one relies completely on brute strength and speed. After you do, then you can talk. 

5Blah blah blah. No value in there, You lack proof to support your statement, making it invalid, thank you have a good day. You have no evidence that kenshin cannot replicate or improve those techniques, or even make techniques that make zoro crap his pants.

6It doesn't matter what your age is, what your opinion is, or what you think. Unless you can provide evidence you hold no value


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> 1No, opinions could mean anything. I might believe that a guy with a sniper rifle can kill zoro, it doesn't make it true. Opinions are absolutely invalid unless supported by hard evidence, of which you fail. So, in that regard, the opening has no real value and are just words repeating themselves, congrats for failing.
> 
> 2Uhh, no that just crap that he uses to cover his ass. The fact that a pin could hurt luffy was so ridicules and inconsistent with his other feats that the creator had to make up something to make it seem less moronic, which he failed at. A pin can hurt luffy by your statement right, okay moving on.
> 
> ...



You really have no comprehension of how badly you just got owned by Pipboy again do you?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> You really have no comprehension of how badly you just got owned by Pipboy again do you?



Show me a part of that post that said anything important?


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

I'm sorry what kind of retard needs me to supply evidence that RK is fiction?   That its unrealistic?

How many RK scans have you posted?  Your entire side posted?   Zilch.  How many OP scans has my side posted?  Appx 20.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I'm sorry what kind of retard needs me to supply evidence that RK is fiction?   That its unrealistic?
> 
> How many RK scans have you posted?  Your entire side posted?   Zilch.  How many OP scans has my side posted?  Appx 20.



Me, retarded? Sounds like the pot is calling the kettle black. but you are illiterate, and it is very apparent. I am not saying its fiction, but it only bends realism. Scans of it braking/doing anything big? And i am not good at finding scans, the fact is that you have posted none. If there was someone on my side it would be easier, but there is non. And i am demanding scans here, no scans were asked from me.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Me, retarded? Noooo, thats you my dear friend, as well as illiterate. I am not saying its fiction, but it only bends realism. Scans of it braking/doing anything big? And i am not good at finding scans, the fact is that you have posted none. If there was someone on my side it would be easier, but there is non. And i am demanding scans here, no scans were asked from me.



Surely if Kenshin were so skilled it then it would be easy for you to find.


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Me, retarded? Noooo, thats you my dear friend, as well as illiterate. I am not saying its fiction, but it only bends realism. Scans of it braking/doing anything big? And i am not good at finding scans, the fact is that you have posted none. If there was someone on my side it would be easier, but there is non. And i am demanding scans here, no scans were asked from me.



I demand scans.

Right now.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Surely if Kenshin were so skilled it then it would be easy for you to find.



What? His skill feats? I will bother after my requests have been met, and pipboy gains some credibility. Doesn't look like that will happen in a long, loooong time.



Sylar said:


> I demand scans.
> 
> Right now.



Will do, right after Pipboy finds the proof so needed


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Scans.

Chop chop.


----------



## Tash (Sep 22, 2007)

LOL man that was funny.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Swajio said:


> LOL man that was funny.



Those are the motha fukin scanz! Or at least the result of such actions... Never stated scans of what were needed


----------



## Shoddragon (Sep 22, 2007)

a guy witha  sniper rifle can kill most op, bleach, and naruto if they do not know he is there ( well naruto character sense killing intent and shit so watever).

 SHIT, I can kill zoro witha  sniper rifle, he is not surviving a shot to the brain.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

No, thats what the teachers keep witting on your tests dear 



Shoddragon said:


> a guy witha  sniper rifle can kill most op, bleach, and naruto if they do not know he is there ( well naruto character sense killing intent and shit so watever).
> 
> SHIT, I can kill zoro witha  sniper rifle, he is not surviving a shot to the brain.



Prolly, but its still opinions


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> No, thats what the teachers keep witting on your tests dear



You are absolutely right.

That 3.5 GPA must be a complete fluke then huh?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> You are absolutely right.
> 
> That 3.5 GPA must be a complete fluke then huh?



Thats PIS


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Thats PIS



So about those scans that prove your arguement...


----------



## Shoddragon (Sep 22, 2007)

flamefang, who did you vote for again oO? because if you and pip started posting all this trash arguing over nothing I hope you at least voted for one of the people to win, otherwise it was all spam.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> So about those scans that prove your arguement...



So, about those scans that pipboy fails to provide... And the facts... And the intelligence... And the credibility... Anyway, scans of what?



Shoddragon said:


> flamefang, who did you vote for again oO? because if you and pip started posting all this trash arguing over nothing I hope you at least voted for one of the people to win, otherwise it was all spam.



I voted for kenshin, if you've noticed since the first page... Since i kind of, ya know, started the thread...


----------



## Shoddragon (Sep 22, 2007)

I did to. His skills can do more damage, its really zoro's much superior speed and power that makes his skills more powerful.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Techniques
Nigiri Hirameki Maguma  Double Slice Flash Demon Bear
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/467/04/" "I'm stronger than Kakashi."
"I'm stronger than Kakashi."

Nitoryuu Iai Rashoumon  Train slicing and against ryuuma
"I'm stronger than Kakashi."
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_371/One_Piece-371-08-09.png" this 

Ittoryuu Hiryuu Kaen --> One Sword Dragon Fire, Inflamed Nose
"I'm stronger than Kakashi."
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/467/14-15/" "I'm stronger than Kakashi."
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/467/16/" Link removed

Santoryuu Ichi/Nigorizake --> Two gorilla slash, Aged Sake
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/470/12/" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/416/18/" Link removed

Nitoryuu Nigiri (two slash) : Tourou  -->Climbing the Tower, Type of Sushi meat
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/416/09/" Link removed
Ohtourou:   Reverse Tower climbing, Another type of sushi meat
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/416/10/" Link removed
Hirameki:   Flash, Another sushi
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/416/10/" Link removed
Samon:  Something, Salmon IE sushi.
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/416/10/" Link removed

Ittoryuu Shishi Sonson (Lion Song), handme downs from dad
Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/416/17/" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_195/One%20Piece%20-%20195%20-%2019.jpg" this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_195/One%20Piece%20-%20195%20-%2020-21.jpg" this 

Santoryuu Tatsumaki (Tornado)
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/417/07/" Link removed
Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_390/One_Piece-390-08.png" this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_390/One_Piece-390-14.png" this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_387/One_Piece-387-04-05.png" this 

Santoryuu Hyoukin Dama 
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/417/11/" Link removed

Asura:
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/417/17/" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/417/18-19/" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/418/02/" Link removed

72-Pound Cannon:
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_401/One_Piece-401-07.png" this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_401/One_Piece-401-08.png" this 
Link removed

Santoryuu Gyuuki Myuzume
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_371/One_Piece-371-15.png" this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_371/One_Piece-371-16-17.png" this 

Ittoryuu 36-point Agony Phoenix -Lash
this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_363/One_Piece-363-16-17.png" this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_271/One%20Piece%20-%20v29%20c271%20p13.jpg" this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_271/One%20Piece%20-%20v29%20c271%20p14.jpg" this 
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_259/One%20Piece%20-%20259%20-%2013.jpg" this 
Link removed

Santoryuu 108 Agony Phoenix-Lash
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_271/One%20Piece%20-%20v29%20c271%20p17.jpg" Link removed
Link removed

Santoryuu Rock Hunting
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_330/One_Piece-330[Null]/ONE-PIECE-330_09.png" Link removed[Null]/ONE-PIECE-330_09.png

Santoryuu Tiger Slash
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_259/One%20Piece%20-%20259%20-%2005.jpg" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_259/One%20Piece%20-%20259%20-%2006.jpg" Link removed

Two-sword style Eagle
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_271/One%20Piece%20-%20v29%20c271%20p11.jpg" Link removed

Onigiri:
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_194/One%20Piece%20-%20194%20-%2006.jpg" Link removed

Toragari
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_194/One%20Piece%20-%20194%20-%2008.jpg" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_194/One%20Piece%20-%20194%20-%2009.jpg" Link removed

Crab Slasher:
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_195/One%20Piece%20-%20195%20-%2006.jpg" Link removed

Flying Dragon Slasher
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_085/16.jpg" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_085/17.jpg" Link removed
Link removed

Ki reinforcement
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/467/11/" Link removed
Link removed

Reading moves:
 HYPERLINK "http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/417/12/" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_195/One%20Piece%20-%20195%20-%2016.jpg" Link removed
 HYPERLINK "http://mangarun.com/one_piece/one_piece_195/One%20Piece%20-%20195%20-%2017.jpg" Link removed
Link removed


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

The above sequence of posts is like watching a cow get hit by a freight train in slow motion.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

I only saw a few that kenshin would not b e able to replicate, and that is the big ass flying slaw and probably a few other flying slashes. And a lot of the moves which you posted did depend on speed and strength, OP just gave them a name to make them seem cooler


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Oh really?   So Kenshin can create flying slashes and hear the breath of all things, and manifest his spirit in a demonic form?   The same thing I have been saying from moment one is still true, he can't.  And he hasn't ever.   And futhermore, this match is with kenshins speed and strength so he can't know Zoro's techniques.

And by the way "Amakakeru no HIrameki" is a longer name than Rashomon, and its still worse.  Kenshin has retarded names and secret techniques too... thy just suck in comparison.


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> I only saw a few that kenshin would not b e able to replicate, and that is the big ass flying slaw and probably a few other flying slashes. And a lot of the moves which you posted did depend on speed and strength, OP just gave them a name to make them seem cooler



I'd love to see Kenshin pump up his muscles by pure will.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Oh really?   So Kenshin can create flying slashes and hear the breath of all things, and manifest his spirit in a demonic form?   The same thing I have been saying from moment one is still true, he can't.  And he hasn't ever.   And futhermore, this match is with kenshins speed and strength so he can't know Zoro's techniques.
> 
> And by the way "Amakakeru no HIrameki" is a longer name than Rashomon, and its still worse.  Kenshin has retarded names and secret techniques too... thy just suck in comparison.



I dunno about kenshin creating flying slashes, since he has never had that kind of strength. I think it would be plausable. And i said that he won't be able to pull of the bigger ones. Kenshin has never used the breath of all things, since it doesn't exist in his verse. He doesn't need it to cut steel, because he has cut steel. The breath is just an OP plot device to generate more retardness, and it works there. I don't really se your point here. Saying that is like saying naruto can beat Cell (dbz) because frs attacks on a cellular level. Kenshin has never done manifestation, so no. But kenshin can still do pretty much most of what zoro can


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> I'd love to see Kenshin pump up his muscles by pure will.



And we all saw how well that worked for freeza


----------



## Wuzzman (Sep 22, 2007)

in a real swordsman battle and not some overblown, sky scraper cutting battle Kenshin owns Zoro.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> I dunno about kenshin creating flying slashes, since he has never had that kind of strength. I think it would be plausable. And i said that he won't be able to pull of the bigger ones. Kenshin has never used the breath of all things, since it doesn't exist in his verse. He doesn't need it to cut steel, because he has cut steel. The breath is just an OP plot device to generate more retardness, and it works there. I don't really se your point here. Saying that is like saying naruto can beat Cell (dbz) because frs attacks on a cellular level. Kenshin has never done manifestation, so no. But kenshin can still do pretty much most of what zoro can



No... because even cellular attack is a scale not a power.  And no... because Kenshin can't use the breath of all things because he can't.   Its not one of his moves.   Zoro could probably easily use any of Kenshins moves but why would he?  His own are better.

You say that kenshin can use zoro's move for no good reason.

Scans now my tiny boy.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> No... because even cellular attack is a scale not a power.  And no... because Kenshin can't use the breath of all things because he can't.   Its not one of his moves.   Zoro could probably easily use any of Kenshins moves but why would he?  His own are better.
> 
> You say that kenshin can use zoro's move for no good reason.
> 
> Scans now my tiny boy.



Scans of what? Kenshin doing moves? And kenshin clearly cuts and brakes steel easily. How do you know zoro can use kenshin's moves? All zoro uses is brute strength/speed/will power. Kenshin''s moves are only inferior because he lacks the power to use them like zoro. Knehsin's moves on steroids > zoro's


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

No show me a scan of Kenshin doing a technique that in any way surpasses anything that Zoro has done?  Either that or admit that even with equal strength Zoro has better technique,and would thus win a fight, ergo more skill.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> I dunno about kenshin creating flying slashes, since he has never had that kind of strength. I think it would be plausable. And i said that he won't be able to pull of the bigger ones. Kenshin has never used the breath of all things, since it doesn't exist in his verse. He doesn't need it to cut steel, because he has cut steel. The breath is just an OP plot device to generate more retardness, and it works there. I don't really se your point here. Saying that is like saying naruto can beat Cell (dbz) because frs attacks on a cellular level. Kenshin has never done manifestation, so no. *But kenshin can still do pretty much most of what zoro can*



Except for flying slashes, hearing the breath of all things, physically manifesting his ki, increasing the durability and sharpness of his blade through ki, actually improving his strength through ki, being able to wield 3 swords... the list goes on and on.


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> And we all saw how well that worked for freeza



Actually it worked rather well for Freeza.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> No show me a scan of Kenshin doing a technique that in any way surpasses anything that Zoro has done?  Either that or admit that even with equal strength Zoro has better technique,and would thus win a fight, ergo more skill.



Thats pathetic. You and i both know that techniques, no matter how skillful, depends on strength and speed. Now, explain to me how kenshin with around average human properties (strength, speed, durability) could execute stronger moves? Your not debating, your just hammering in a crooked nail. Thats like me saying, what has zoro done to surpass trunk's moves?


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Thats pathetic. You and i both know that techniques, no matter how skillful, depends on strength and speed. Now, explain to me how kenshin with around average human properties (strength, speed, durability) could execute stronger moves? Your not debating, your just hammering in a crooked nail. Thats like me saying, what has zoro done to surpass trunk's moves?



Considering Trunks never did any techniques with his sword this actually helps Pipboys's case.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Except for flying slashes, hearing the breath of all things, physically manifesting his ki, increasing the durability and sharpness of his blade through ki, actually improving his strength through ki, being able to wield 3 swords... the list goes on and on.



No, it doesn't. And kenshin doesn't need the breath because it is a plot device. Kenshin can cut and brake steel, fact.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Considering Trunks never did any techniques with his sword this actually helps Pipboys's case.



He cut improved freeza up. Regular freeza was laughing at city busters.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

One scan you cretin, just one scan.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> One scan you cretin, just one scan.



Of what? The freeza thing?


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> He cut improved freeza up. Regular freeza was laughing at city busters.



Yhea, thats not a technique.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Yhea, thats not a technique.



If thats not a technique, than 90% of zoro's techniques are not techniques either


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Still no scans.


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> If thats not a technique, than 90% of zoro's techniques are not techniques either



Except we are shown techniques wether you want to beleive they are or not, Trunks just cuts at Freeza randomly.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Still no scans.



Scans of what?


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Yeah.. still waiting on kenshin scans.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Except we are shown techniques wether you want to beleive they are or not, Trunks just cuts at Freeza randomly.



So now yelling something makes it a technique?


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

I'm done with letting you coast on empty air.  Pop a scan or expect nothing more but mockery and demands for scans.


----------



## Wuzzman (Sep 22, 2007)

Wtf, these zoro fans are idiots. In this fight Kenshin strength, speed, stamina = Zoro. Which mean HALF THE BULLSHIT HE BULLS WOULDN'T EVEN WORK IN A REAL FIGHT. They are flambouyant and not pratical in a real fucking fight with HUMAN power scaling. Kenshin is not losing to flailing of the arms Zoro.


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> So now yelling something makes it a technique?



Just like Kenshin, yhea.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Yeah.. still waiting on kenshin scans.



Scans of what may i ask?


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Still waiting on those scans....

Just saying.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I'm done with letting you coast on empty air.  Pop a scan or expect nothing more but mockery and demands for scans.



And i have been getting something else? Cmon, what scans? Scans of what? Tell me


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Wuzzman said:


> Wtf, these zoro fans are idiots. In this fight Kenshin strength, speed, stamina = Zoro. Which mean HALF THE BULLSHIT HE BULLS WOULDN'T EVEN WORK IN A REAL FIGHT. They are flambouyant and not pratical in a real fucking fight with HUMAN power scaling. Kenshin is not losing to flailing of the arms Zoro.



Itt: People who think Kenshin is a realistic series.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Just like Kenshin, yhea.



Not really


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Not really



Than how about some scans to show how this is?


----------



## Wuzzman (Sep 22, 2007)

Does kenshin really needs scans? Ok please Zoro fans tell me which move in Zoro gazillion "techniques" would actually work in a real fight. Tell me exactly.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Than how about some scans to show how this is?



What? Kenshin doing an actual sword technique?


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Wuzzman said:


> Does kenshin really needs scans? Ok please Zoro fans tell me which move in Zoro gazillion "techniques" would actually work in a real fight. Tell me exactly.



Since when was this a realistic fight?


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Any scan of any skill of Kenshin would be a great start.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Since when was this a realistic fight?



Since i said so as the topic creator...


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Since i said so as the topic creator...



You just said they were on the same level.


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Any scans yet?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> You just said they were on the same level.



I also said that they were using sword skills, not flying slashes.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Yep.. Kenshin scans.. don't have them.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Any scans yet?



Fine, Link removed thats a start
Link removed
Notice this guy charging at him, and then Link removed
Then him sending his opponent flying 
Link removed
And crazy ass sword aim
Link removed
And i don't even know what this is, but its fucking awesome
Link removed


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> I also said that they were using sword skills, not flying slashes.



Which Zoro does with his sword. Ergo sword skill.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Which Zoro does with his sword. Ergo sword skill.



It does not count as sword skills. That more like talent. Thats like saying that the windscar or w/e from inuyasha is sword skills


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Fine, Link removed thats a start
> Link removed
> Notice this guy charging at him, and then Link removed



Good start.
Link removed


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Good start.
> Link removed



Thats just zoro hacking at swords, how is that skill?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> lol...........



If you consider that sword skill, then the windscar is sword skill too, and thats just wrong


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Now you have proven that kenshin is fast.  UNfortunately Zoro for this fight is just as fast.   Shall we continue?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Now you have proven that kenshin is fast.  UNfortunately Zoro for this fight is just as fast.   Shall we continue?



What how? Where is there speed?


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

So explain to us what Kenshin did in that scan. You know, the technique he did.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Because speed is the requirement for that move.   If you are slower than a guy you can't toy around with him.   Successfully blocking such a move proves only speed.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> So explain to us what Kenshin did in that scan. You know, the technique he did.



He stroke his opponents back while running and knocked him down



Pipboy said:


> Because speed is the requirement for that move.   If you are slower than a guy you can't toy around with him.   Successfully blocking such a move proves only speed.



No, it proves kenshin's ability to read people, and amazing timing


----------



## Havoc (Sep 22, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Good start.
> Link removed



How does that show skill?

Seems more like a strength feat.

I don't read OP because I'm heterosexual, can you tell me, are Zoro's swords supposed to be really strong?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Havoc said:


> How does that show skill?
> 
> Seems more like a strength feat.
> 
> I don't read OP because I'm heterosexual, can you tell me, are Zoro's swords supposed to be really strong?



lol nice 
Link removed 
thats a start
Link removed
Notice this guy charging at him, and then Link removed
Then him sending his opponent flying 
Link removed
And crazy ass sword aim
Link removed
And i don't even know what this is, but its fucking awesome
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Havoc said:


> I'm heterosexual


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 22, 2007)

Kenshin defeats Jin-Ei with battoujutsu, despite having a sword which cripples the technique as explained below:
Sniperz!!1!!1

Jin-Ei dodges the first blow, leaving Kenshin open:
Sniperz!!1!!1

But Kenshin compensates by using his sheath:
Sniperz!!1!!1

This proves that Kenshin mastered battoujutsu, though I don't think this would give him too much of an advantage since Zoro has more varied techniques.


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Havoc said:


> How does that show skill?
> 
> Seems more like a strength feat.
> 
> I don't read OP because I'm heterosexual, can you tell me, are Zoro's swords supposed to be really strong?



It doesn't really, but it was just a directly relevant scan in response to an argument that ended 12 pages ago when all intelligent posters on Kenshin's side stopped posting.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Kenshin defeats Jin-Ei with battoujutsu, despite having a sword which cripples the technique as explained below:
> Sniperz!!1!!1
> 
> Jin-Ei dodges the first blow, leaving Kenshin open:
> ...



Yay for scans


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

And here is zoro learning to hear the breath of the universe.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Link removed
> Link removed
> Link removed
> 
> And here is zoro learning to hear the breath of the universe.



Breathing means nothing outside of the OPverse


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Cept the ability to cut anything!


----------



## Sylar (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> Breathing means nothing outside of the OPverse



Try not breathing.

See how that works for you.


----------



## Havoc (Sep 22, 2007)

Are you trying to make a point?


I was jk with you btw LT.

But you didn't answer my question about his swords.


----------



## Havoc (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Cept the ability to cut anything!



no limit fallacy?


----------



## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Havoc said:


> Are you trying to make a point?
> 
> 
> I was jk with you btw LT.
> ...



Zoro infuses ki in his swords to make them sharper and more durable.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Cept the ability to cut anything!



I would like to see zoro breath his way through adamantium


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 22, 2007)

...
Nothing wrong with paying tribute to the greatest ranger there ever was, besides the pink one.


----------



## Zephos (Sep 22, 2007)

Flamefang said:


> I would like to see zoro breath his way through adamantium



Here's a question, since your issue with Zoro's techniques is that thier fictional are Kenshin's techniques moves doable in real life?


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Here's a question, since your issue with Zoro's techniques is that thier fictional are Kenshin's techniques moves doable in real life?



No, zoro's techniques aren't really sword techniques, he just uses strength/speed/will power/energy


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Is there any adamantium in the Kenshinverse?   Good.  Now suck it up.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Is there any adamantium in the Kenshinverse?   Good.  Now suck it up.



Nice spam you got there. And it still doesn't change the fact that zoro can't cut adamantium


----------



## Tash (Sep 22, 2007)

Both there moves are fake as hell, nobody could do either of them, if you are arguing whos are more over the top, then Zoro, seeing as it's well outside human ability to grow 2 more arms and, 2 more heads.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Swajio said:


> Both there moves are fake as hell, nobody could do either of them, if you are arguing whos are more over the top, then Zoro, seeing as it's well outside human ability to grow 2 more arms and, 2 more heads.



No, its who is the better swordsmen


----------



## Tash (Sep 22, 2007)

Well if you are saying whose the better swordsman it's Zoro obviously, considering he wields 3 swords in very precarious positions, without cutting himself.


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Which is bleedingly obvious as only one of them can do mystic shit with his swords.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Which is bleedingly obvious as only one of them can do mystic shit with his swords.



Mystic shit does not count as swordsmen ship. If it did, all of bleach would have swordsmen


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Yeah it does... when its a *result* of your swordsmanship.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Yeah it does... when its a *result* of your swordsmanship.



That makes Byakuya, Aizen, and Ichigo swordsmen


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

No, because their swords are just manifestations of their souls that takes the form of a sword initially.  Zoro has real swords and uses them to fight in sword battles where he learns new sword skills that swordsmen in his universe possess.


----------



## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> No, because their swords are just manifestations of their souls that takes the form of a sword initially.  Zoro has real swords and uses them to fight in sword battles where he learns new sword skills that swordsmen in his universe possess.



No, their swords are the swords of their universe, there by making them actual swords


----------



## Havoc (Sep 22, 2007)

So if you give Zoro any sword he can do all the same moves?


----------



## EvilMoogle (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Cept the ability to cut anything!



One thing I was meaning to ask when Limit_Tester first started posting scans.

If Zoro's ability to "hear the breath of the universe" lets him "cut anything"...

...Why does it take him so many hits to draw blood against Kaku?  Is is Giraffe-nose stronger than "anything"?


----------



## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

No he needs to utilize the ShiShi Son Son.  Its not a 100% of his attacks thing.   He can only hear the breath when he meditates and uses that Draw Cut, the Lion Requiem.  In fact he tries to use the attack against kaku, who reacts by using a rankick to block, as he knows that it will cut him apart.

Edit:  To Havoc, yes.   He used the tatsumaki on hachi using Yosaku and Johnny's cleaver swords, and broke his 120 kilo swords to boot.  When Yubashiri was destroyed he picked up a random cutlass.  Better swords matter of course.


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## Wuzzman (Sep 22, 2007)

Please tell me one sword technique Zoro has that is feasible against kenshin...


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## Havoc (Sep 22, 2007)

So if you give Zoro any sword he can do all the same moves?????????


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## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Havoc said:


> So if you give Zoro any sword he can do all the same moves?????????



Id like to see him try with 3 claymores


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## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Well given that he can bench a couple hundred tons that would be childs play.


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## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Well given that he can bench a couple hundred tons that would be childs play.



Theres a differents in the way a katana and a claymore works... And where has he benched a couple of hundred tons?


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## Havoc (Sep 22, 2007)

Is there a reason why you are not answering my question Pipboy?


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## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Oh I don't know, maybe the part where he lifted an entire building over his head and threw it.  Or the time he was balancing those hundred ton rocks on his arms for training... or the time he was swining 100 tons of iron weights as practice.

EDIT:  I did havoc.  Its in the post above your second time asking.   And the answer is yes.


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## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Oh I don't know, maybe the part where he lifted an entire building over his head and threw it.  Or the time he was balancing those hundred ton rocks on his arms for training... or the time he was swining 100 tons of iron weights as practice.
> 
> EDIT:  I did havoc.  Its in the post above your second time asking.   And the answer is yes.



Scans of that or it never happened


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## Pipboy (Sep 22, 2007)

Scans:
Link removed

Link removed

Link removed


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## Havoc (Sep 22, 2007)

This is what Flame is saying, at least this is what I think he's saying.

Even Kenshin and Zoro were at the same strength and speed, and Zoro did not use any special techniques, then Kenshin would be the more skilled sword fighter.


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## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Suck it trebek
> Link removed
> Suck it long
> Link removed
> ...



Where is prove that the building weighs several hundred tons? Or the boulders?



Havoc said:


> This is what Flame is saying, at least this is what I think he's saying.
> 
> Even Kenshin and Zoro were at the same strength and speed, and Zoro did not use any special techniques, then Kenshin would be the more skilled sword fighter.



This is what i've been saying for a while now


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## Limit_Tester (Sep 22, 2007)

Havoc said:


> This is what Flame is saying, at least this is what I think he's saying.
> 
> Even Kenshin and Zoro were at the same strength and speed, and Zoro did not use any special techniques, then Kenshin would be the more skilled sword fighter.



All Kenshin's moves are special techniques.


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## Flamefang (Sep 22, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> All Kenshin's moves are special techniques.



No, they are basic uses of the sword. He maximizes the sword's and his own power. Where as zoro simply throws his power at his enemies


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## Havoc (Sep 23, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> All Kenshin's moves are special techniques.



There is a difference between the two.


That's like saying Zoro sword techniques would be the same to a real life sword fighter.


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## Flamefang (Sep 23, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Ooh I am sorry.  But you don't seem to get it.   I already did the calculations, I have already drowned you in proof.  I want you to figure it out yourself as I have already shown you the scans.  If you doubt my word you can do your own calcs.  If you are too lazy or stupid to do your own calcs then you are up shit creek.



What calculations? If you have already done them show them.


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## Limit_Tester (Sep 23, 2007)

Havoc said:


> There is a difference between the two.
> 
> 
> That's like saying Zoro sword techniques would be the same to a real life sword fighter.



Kenshin has no real life techniques. It's exactly the same thing. Sword skill in OP is via Ki manipulation, while swordskill in Kenshin is via styles. This fight is to determine who would win if the stats were equalized.


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## Havoc (Sep 23, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Kenshin has no real life techniques. It's exactly the same thing. Sword skill in OP is via Ki manipulation, while swordskill in Kenshin is via styles. This fight is to determine who would win if the stats were equalized.



Ok, how about this.


Zoro vs. Kenshin

Same speed, same strength, and no ki manipulation.

Better?


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## Flamefang (Sep 23, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Kenshin has no real life techniques. It's exactly the same thing. Sword skill in OP is via Ki manipulation, while swordskill in Kenshin is via styles. This fight is to determine who would win if the stats were equalized.



Real life swordsmen use styles for your information


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 23, 2007)

Actually, some of his battoujutsu techniques are somewhat realistic.  They just tend to be exaggerated.


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## Pipboy (Sep 23, 2007)

Oh I do know what you are talkign about.  And you seem to be losing it.   You are attempting to pare out what of zoro's skills are Ki based and what are plain old skill.   Cept the two are inseperable.  You might as well try and remove unrealistic techniques from Kenshin.  

Sorry Flamefang, given that I already showed that Zoro can lift more than the claymores I don't feel any need to entertain you.   I'm sorry please try again.


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## Havoc (Sep 23, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> No... he does. What you are saying is just retarded though.



What you are saying is, for example Goku's special moves are similar to say Batman's.

How can you compare who has a better fighting technique if one uses ki enhanced moves?


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## Pipboy (Sep 23, 2007)

Because you aren't talking about Zoro anymore.  You are talking about a random swordsman that has none of Zoro's skills or strength but has three swords.


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## Flamefang (Sep 23, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Sorry Flamefang, given that I already showed that Zoro can lift more than the claymores I don't feel any need to entertain you.   I'm sorry please try again.



I never said he couldn't lift them, using them as effectively as he would the katanas is the problem. And you still have no evidence though


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## Havoc (Sep 23, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Because you aren't talking about Zoro anymore.  You are talking about a random swordsman that has none of Zoro's skills or strength but has three swords.



Well to gauge both fighters sword skill would be impossible to do, correct?

Also I was never arguing Kenshin was better, I was trying to tell you what Flame was saying so everyone could move on.

Which is what I did, don't try to drag me into this abyss...


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## Pipboy (Sep 23, 2007)

Sorry havoc, I guess these things happen.

I'm sorry flamefang, Zoro has used cleavers and Cutlasses.  He prefers Katana's but any sword will do.


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> And how long ago was the fight with Mihawk? Zoro is a lot different from back then. I would consider it precise when you cut the back of an opponent that makes their body float like paper to make it incredibly hard to hit them. Among other things Zoro has done after that fight till now.



Yes yes Zoro has a whole bunch of different other moves though that don't save him from a furious ass-whupping. If he ain't an emotionless friend like Sojirou or got a style like Enishi and has a move to counter his Amakakeru no hirameki  then he's as good as dead.


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## neodragzero (Sep 23, 2007)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Yes yes Zoro has a whole bunch of different other moves though that don't save him from a furious ass-whupping. If he ain't an emotionless friend like Sojirou or got a style like Enishi and has a move to counter his Amakakeru no hirameki  then he's as good as dead.



Again, plenty enough times where Kenshin gets surprised. By plenty of fighters. You make it seem like he reads off everything a person is going to do from the get go. You haven't explained how exactly he's suppose to predict a flying sword attack of supersonic speed being the next move coming his way nor the matter of how exactly he's going to be okay after trying to block an attack that should demolish his sword and him. Zoro isn't an emo like a certain "tap tap" speedster and can do attacks that still surpass whatever Kenshin has experienced. Zoro still being a guy that defeated an opponent that can predict his every move without even needing to see him, knowing his location at all times, and without needing to do so through his emotions that's pretty limited. You haven't really produced anything that really suggest that Zoro is screwed in this bout.


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> Again, plenty enough times where Kenshin gets surprised.



I reaaaaaaly hope your not looking at the anime......  




 By plenty of fighters. You make it seem like he reads off everything a person is going to do from the get go. You haven't explained how exactly he's suppose to predict a flying sword attack of supersonic speed being the next move coming his way nor the matter of how exactly he's going to be okay after trying to block an attack that should demolish his sword and him. 



			
				neodrazero said:
			
		

> Zoro isn't an emo like a certain "tap tap"



lol "tap tap"  

*reps*

No he isn't. 

But as soon as he starts attacking It,ll only take Kenshin five minutes to interpret his fighting style cuz that's one of his special skills.



			
				neodragonzero said:
			
		

> speedster and can do attacks that still surpass whatever Kenshin has experienced. Zoro still being a guy that defeated an opponent that can predict his every move without even needing to see him, knowing his location at all times, and without needing to do so through his emotions that's pretty limited. You haven't really produced anything that really suggest that Zoro is screwed in this bout.



Can I get a couple chapters of the fight this dude had with Zoro?

Also the only reason Kenshin able to do what he does is because he can interpret the feelings of his opponent and use whatever makes them so emotional or drives them to do what they do and use it against them as they become stronger to try harder and use it as a liability.


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## neodragzero (Sep 23, 2007)

Blaze of Glory said:


> lol "tap tap"
> 
> *reps*
> 
> ...


Except that Zoro's fighting style doesn't even remain strictly constant. It's a constantly evolving thing. I don't see Kenshin interpreting the skills of someone that uses ki based attacks. It's still something he's never really experienced. 


> Can I get a couple chapters of the fight this dude had with Zoro?


It occurs in Volume 29, chapter 271. That's volumes before Zoro's current level of skill.


> Also the only reason Kenshin able to do what he does is because he can interpret the feelings of his opponent and use whatever makes them so emotional or drives them to do what they do and use it against them as they become stronger to try harder and use it as a liability.


That's not gonna really work out so well with Zoro. Zoro not being the type to  conversate  much during a fight and having a reason behind his certain reason for fighting where he walks a path of progression and never living like a normal person for the sake of a deceased friend that shared his dream. 

I would say his will to win can actually be greater than that of Kenshin when he at least is trying to constantly work towards a goal rather than just doing something on a reactionary basis. While being a guy that cares about his fellow nakama. Trying to use the thing Zoro builds his swordsmanship against would like trying to attack water with water, fire with fire, etc. That's at least the way I feel about it.


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> Except that Zoro's fighting style doesn't even remain strictly constant. It's a constantly evolving thing. I don't see Kenshin interpreting the skills of someone that uses ki based attacks. It's still something he's never really experienced.




Kenshin's always watching out for what his opponent does...Now an opponent who's style keeps changing...Not sure... 

However Ki based attacks...That's kinda Shishio's department since his attacks were pretty much similar since he was flaming and shit.




			
				neodragzero said:
			
		

> It occurs in Volume 29, chapter 271. That's volumes before Zoro's current level of skill.




Can I get some links please? I'm too tired 



			
				neodragzero said:
			
		

> That's not gonna really work out so well with Zoro. Zoro not being the type to  conversate  much during a fight and having a reason behind his certain reason for fighting where he walks a path of progression and never living like a normal person for the sake of a deceased friend that shared his dream.



Kenshin tell why he's fighting as well merely just by exchanging blows with an opponent. Go watch the episode when he fights Sojiro. He can immediately tell what's wrong with him as soon as he messes up his sandal. He like "Wha'? What the fucks wrong with you little boy?" 



			
				neodragzero said:
			
		

> I would say his will to win can actually be greater than that of Kenshin when he at least is trying to constantly work towards a goal rather than just doing something on a reactionary basis.



I could say the same about Kenshin. As soon as he lost to Enishi in a battle of special attacks he got up and smacked him straight in the jaw since he was in no mood to fuck around. He continued to wail on Enishi until he decided to go back Shanghai or wherever the hell he came from.


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## neodragzero (Sep 23, 2007)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Kenshin's always watching out for what his opponent does...Now an opponent who's style keeps changing...Not sure...
> 
> However Ki based attacks...That's kinda Shishio's department since his attacks were pretty much similar since he was flaming and shit.


Not really. Zoro can create fire without the usage of any human, while producing attacks that have such effects as making him whirl, an asura attack of multiple limbs and swords that can cut through an attack that easily slices through a building, etc.  What Shishio did doesn't really compare.


> Can I get some links please? I'm too tired


I don't know of any links to that. I'm too tired to upload a bunch of images right now...


> Kenshin tell why he's fighting as well merely just by exchanging blows with an opponent. Go watch the episode when he fights Sojiro. He can immediately tell what's wrong with him as soon as he messes up his sandal. He like "Wha'? What the fucks wrong with you little boy?"


That's the thing, there's nothing wrong with Zoro. He isn't like Sojiro at all with the whole sob story thing. Zoro isn't going to be convinced that the reasons for his fighting are wrong. Sojiro and Enishi have weaker reasoning and mindsets than Zoro by a worlds of difference.


> I could say the same about Kenshin. As soon as he lost to Enishi in a battle of special attacks he got up and smacked him straight in the jaw since he was in no mood to fuck around. He continued to wail on Enishi until he decided to go back Shanghai or wherever the hell he came from.


That's because Enishi was threatening the rest of his friends. Not to mention that later on Enishi is pretty much winning out with Kenshin only saved because Enishi gives up based on emo sister stuff. This bout has Zoro focused on Kenshin and Zoro doesn't have the weaker will that Enishi has.

Zoro's style is still beyond anything really shown in Kenshin. He doesn't have an emo back story where he needs Kenshin's "help." Have you actually read/seen One Piece from beginning to current? Rashoumon is the most Kenshin should hope for in receiving as attacks go.


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## Bender (Sep 24, 2007)

neodragzero said:


> Not really. Zoro can create fire without the usage of any human, while producing attacks that have such effects as making him whirl, an asura attack of multiple limbs and swords that can cut through an attack that easily slices through a building, etc.  What Shishio did doesn't really compare.



We hardly got to see much of Shishio besides him being able have a flame blade and that other shit. We never saw what he could do with his sword against something lilke the ship the Purgatory or anything else.

However,







			
				neodragzero said:
			
		

> That's the thing, there's nothing wrong with Zoro. He isn't like Sojiro at all with the whole sob story thing. Zoro isn't going to be convinced that the reasons for his fighting are wrong. Sojiro and Enishi have weaker reasoning and mindsets than Zoro by a worlds of difference.



It isn't just the emo story that Kenshin destroys he destroys their whole motivation behind trying to fight. He enters the head of his opponent and pretty much shuts everything down. Not only is Kenshin able to attack his opponent physically but psychologically as well. This is seen when he battles Raijuta. Although, he didn't have himself a little sad past Kenshin hurts him to the point he destroys his confidence and Raijuta breaks down. Take note that Raijuta was a big-ass dude who could probaly kill hella amount of people.



			
				neodragzero said:
			
		

> That's because Enishi was threatening the rest of his friends. Not to mention that later on Enishi is pretty much winning out with Kenshin only saved because Enishi gives up based on emo sister stuff. This bout has Zoro focused on Kenshin and Zoro doesn't have the weaker will that Enishi has.




Kenshin hasn't only gone berserk on the fact that his friends were threatened he pretty much lost it when Misao continuously asked him about how Aoshi and the Oniwaban group were doing. Dude Kenshin has practically broken the wills of thousands.



			
				neodragzero said:
			
		

> Zoro's style is still beyond anything really shown in Kenshin. He doesn't have an emo back story where he needs Kenshin's "help." Have you actually read/seen One Piece from beginning to current? Rashoumon is the most Kenshin should hope for in receiving as attacks go.



Maybe your right..

It doesn't have anything to do with emo story Kenshin is able to attack his opponent psychologically as well as physically.


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## Wuzzman (Sep 24, 2007)

Are people retarded or are people not remembering that the only reason why this thread isn't in the joke thread category is because Zoro strength has been dumbed down to Kenshin level. Now, that means, no whirl winds, no ki enforcing, and what ever other power scaling shit. Look at the 3 sword style of Zoro, is that even pratical against Kenshin? What stops Kenshin from cutting Zoro in half with Ōgi - Amakakeru Ryū no Hirameki  ? Here is a list of Kenshin moves (at the bottom of the link)


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## Pipboy (Sep 24, 2007)

HOw about Zoro's cut pretty much anything ShishiSonson.  Or his Rashomon, or his Asura or any other number of techniques.


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## Wesker (Sep 24, 2007)

The thing is that with both their stats being = including speed that kenshin's strike will be quicker due to batoujutsu and even if zoro blocks it he will be sucked in to the second strike just like shishio.


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## Pipboy (Sep 24, 2007)

Uh huh... because its not like he has 2 extra swords with which to block.  Or 8 depending on whether or not he is in asura.


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## Basilikos (Sep 24, 2007)

Why the hell does this thread have 23 pages?

Strength:

Zoro>Kenshin

Skill:

Kenshin>Zoro

I don't see why there is so much conflict over something so easy to grasp.


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## neodragzero (Sep 24, 2007)

Blaze of Glory said:


> We hardly got to see much of Shishio besides him being able have a flame blade and that other shit. We never saw what he could do with his sword against something lilke the ship the Purgatory or anything else.




Seriously, no. You can't seriously suggest that Shishio is a guy that can slice a ship in half. Lighting his sword on fire with human fat is worlds less and different than what Zoro pulls off.


> It isn't just the emo story that Kenshin destroys he destroys their whole motivation behind trying to fight. He enters the head of his opponent and pretty much shuts everything down. Not only is Kenshin able to attack his opponent physically but psychologically as well. This is seen when he battles Raijuta. Although, he didn't have himself a little sad past Kenshin hurts him to the point he destroys his confidence and Raijuta breaks down. Take note that Raijuta was a big-ass dude who could probaly kill hella amount of people.


Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Raijuta. Zoro has a will and mindset that's way above Raijuta. They don't really compare. Zoro isn't going to have his confidence shaken. Zoro wouldn't really care at all about what Kenshin has to say. He would be more focused upon fighting and being the cool, nakama caring swordsman that he is. Along with having techniques that still surpass what has been shown in Kenshin. You're still operating on the basis that Zoro has to have a weak will and troubled background like this antagonist. That's not going to be the case.


> Kenshin hasn't only gone berserk on the fact that his friends were threatened he pretty much lost it when Misao continuously asked him about how Aoshi and the Oniwaban group were doing. Dude Kenshin has practically broken the wills of thousands.


Again, that has nothing to do with Zoro. You're still bringing up stuff that isn't really going to be present against Zoro. I don't see how a few weak minded people equates to thousands. I don't remember him beating on Misao. Zoro still wins.


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## Wesker (Sep 25, 2007)

It does not matter if he has 8 swords if the strike occurs faster than he can move the blades in front of the path of kenshin's sword.


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## neodragzero (Sep 25, 2007)

Keeper of Seven Keys said:


> It does not matter if he has 8 swords if the strike occurs faster than he can move the blades in front of the path of kenshin's sword.



And that's a given how? Zoro knows how to draw a sword. ShishiSonson for the win. If Kenshin tries to break Zoro's sword with an Ouji, well, he's in for a horrible surprise.


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## Pipboy (Sep 25, 2007)

Actually it does, because you know you can actually cover the entire breadth of your body without moving.  Not that that would be a a problem, because both of them have equal speed so all the bonus speed that Kenshin gets is nullified by a flying slash.


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## Lord Snow (Sep 25, 2007)

In a battle of skill, Kenshin wins.


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## neodragzero (Sep 25, 2007)

@gent9 said:


> In a battle of skill, Kenshin wins.



How? I'm oh so curious as to how Kenshin is going to outskill Zoro.


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