# Law vs Ichibei



## SilverMizuji (Jun 4, 2015)

Want to know who win between these two Old vs Young.

Both Bloodlusted
Distance : 1000m 
Location : narnia


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## Warlordgab (Jun 4, 2015)

I think something similar was done before but I guess it doesn't matter

Speedwise Law has a clear advantage, but Ichibei outclasses him in nearly everything else (DC/dura and hax). Law's only chance is roomslash him to incapacitate him before he gets the chance to uses his hax; becuase if Ichibei manages to use his hax, he easily defeats Law


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 4, 2015)

So are we back to saying that Room slash ignores durability or are we just giving it the DC we calced it at?


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## Regicide (Jun 4, 2015)

Does Law even have the DC to put Ichibei down even with a sword?


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## B Rabbit (Jun 4, 2015)

Law is faster, and that's all I know.


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## Warlordgab (Jun 4, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> So are we back to saying that Room slash ignores durability or are we just giving it the DC we calced it at?



Well, I'm following his obd profile statement of his room slashes 'ignoring durability all together'; but if it's given just City level destructive power, Law has no way of defeating Ichibei


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

>Ichibei

nope nope nope nope




Regicide said:


> Does Law even have the DC to put Ichibei down even with a sword?



last time I checked it was still in megatons so nope


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## Regicide (Jun 4, 2015)

He gets pulped then.


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

Ichibei doesn't need to move to use his ability either. Law being draped in black kinda fucks him over.


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## Warlordgab (Jun 4, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Ichibei doesn't need to move to use his ability either. Law being draped in black kinda fucks him over.



Wait! IIRC Ichibei needs to strike his opponents with his brush/blade for his hax to work; the only reason why he didn't need to move to wrap Juha in black was because Juha stole his bankai and it seems Ichibei's bankai can only be controlled by Ichibei himself


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2015)

Nah, ichibei controlled the black colour (turned in ink) a pletoria of things he never touched
He just does the same with law clothes and is end game


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> ^ Wait! IIRC Ichibei needs to strike his opponents with his brush/blade for his hax to work; the only reason why he didn't need to move to wrap Juha in black was because Juha stole his bankai and it seems Ichibei's bankai can only be controlled by Ichibei himself



This is a whole lot of wrong.

For one? Bach never took Ichibei's Bankai, he stole power that so happens to take form in a black color which Ichibei can control remotely. Second Ichibei's Bankai is white ink.  And third 





He doesn't need to touch shit.


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> So are we back to saying that Room slash ignores durability or are we just giving it the DC we calced it at?


They ignore durability but they can cause city level+ environmental damage.


Regicide said:


> Does Law even have the DC to put Ichibei down even with a sword?


Law physically is at least town level+. Considering even some Espada are town level I'd say no.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 4, 2015)

imagine pls go


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

Imagin stfu


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

Stop being rude, Rudeg


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

EAD Pebbles


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> They ignore durability but they can cause city level+ environmental damage.



didn't we stop considering Law's ability as capable of ignoring durability because of CoA or some shit?

I can't really remember


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## Byrd (Jun 4, 2015)

It was because his ability never harmed his opponents that was why... 

He also has that soul transport thing.. were he has some soul manipulation

granted Law DF is most useful when fighting more than one opponent


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

DarkTorrent said:


> didn't we stop considering Law's ability as capable of ignoring durability because of CoA or some shit?
> 
> I can't really remember


No?

Don't know why anyone would assume that. 

CoA has been relatively useless against Law's room slashes. Law hasn't shown any top notch CoA feats aside from basic hardening either. 

Sure you can swat away Law's sword swings like Smoker did, but not the air slash itself while in room. 

Ope Ope no mi is spatial manipulation


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> No?
> 
> Don't know why anyone would assume that.
> 
> ...



it was something about CoA helping against Law's room and since it's basically an ability that increases durability it meant that Law's room doesn't ignore durability

or maybe not

again, I don't really remember


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

Tell that to Vergo then


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## Regicide (Jun 4, 2015)

Does it really matter? 

Isn't the whole point that the people affected by Law's ability aren't harmed by being split up into their component body parts and shit? What relevance does it have if Law can't harm the other party either way?


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

Pretty much.  

He has other room abilities that deal damage anyway


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jun 4, 2015)

So it comes down to if Law is using black or not ? Holy fuck ... On the brighter side, I get to post this every time Ichibei wins a fight:

[YOUTUBE]InRDF_0lfHk[/YOUTUBE]

Can someone explain me again the renaming thing he does ? ... I don't quite understand .


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Tell that to Vergo then



I don't really remember, Vergo

happy?


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

DarkTorrent said:


> I don't really remember, Vergo
> 
> happy?




*Spoiler*: __ 








>CoA


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

More like Oda is a rassist


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

It ain't right if it ain't white


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> It ain't right if it ain't white



> this white man worship

channeling your inner ^ (use bro), Imagine?


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> So it comes down to if Law is using black or not ? Holy fuck ... On the brighter side, I get to post this every time Ichibei wins a fight:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]InRDF_0lfHk[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Can someone explain me again the renaming thing he does ? ... I don't quite understand .



No its that Law's literally wearing all black.

Even if he wasn't, he's still got black hair, irises and sword(?) 


Ichibei's Bankai lets him rename anything he's already got inked with his Shikai and have it stay at that powerlevel. Kind of superfluous considering for most anybody, the latter is already enough to net him the win.


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

DarkTorrent said:


> > this white man worship
> 
> channeling your inner ^ (use bro), Imagine?



They haven't done anything wrong


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## Blαck (Jun 4, 2015)

Couldn't gamma knife take out Ichibei?


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## Byrd (Jun 4, 2015)

Haki itself is weird in a sense... it has some auto-hax defenses or shit like that... whatever oda wants to pull out his ass 

Logia intangibility

> nope, I COA your ass

Spacial Manipulation 

> Nope My CoA blocks your ass


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## LoveLessNHK (Jun 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What part of this am I supposed to notice? The part where Doflamingo says his cutting is useless versus Vergo's Haki, or the part where Law cuts Vergo in half (despite the Haki)?


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## Byrd (Jun 4, 2015)

Haki is weird... I remember it saying it gives them some type of shield like shit


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jun 4, 2015)

DarkTorrent said:


> it was something about CoA helping against Law's room and since it's basically an ability that increases durability it meant that Law's room doesn't ignore durability
> 
> or maybe not
> 
> again, I don't really remember



If that's the reason then should be dropped because CoA is not effective against Law because it makes the person more durable, but because it's the only effective way against a DF(Besides Kairoseki), let's say I have Usopp level durability(Even with CoA) and WB level Haki, I would still be able to defend myself against Law, not because durability but because CoA level .



Liquid said:


> No its that Law's literally wearing all black.
> 
> Even if he wasn't, he's still got black hair, irises and sword(?)
> 
> ...



Wait, so he needs to put ink on Law for it to happen ? Wiki says so ... Because if he needs to ink Law then he's fucked since Law has speed advantage and Shambles ... Although he has not demonstrated Color of Observation .


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2015)

he can just remotely transform the black parts on law clothes in ink


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jun 4, 2015)

Oh shit I understand it now, I thought he spat out ... Can he transform body parts into ink too ?


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

LoveLessNHK said:


> What part of this am I supposed to notice? The part where Doflamingo says his cutting is useless versus Vergo's Haki, or the part where Law cuts Vergo in half (despite the Haki)?


The part where Law cuts Vergo in half despite using tremendous amounts of CoA


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## Regicide (Jun 4, 2015)

That..

You know what, Stables can explain this instead.


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

I told you to stop helping him


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## Byrd (Jun 4, 2015)

Regicide said:


> That..
> 
> You know what, *Stables *can explain this instead.



Who the fuck is that??


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Byrd said:


> Who the fuck is that??



have you been living under a rock this past couple of years?


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Byrd, lets play the guessing game

it's a guy with a sickly imouto that can't into suns

3 attempts


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

DT


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> DT



yes? 

too much?


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## Regicide (Jun 4, 2015)

DarkTorrent said:


> it's a guy with a sickly imouto that can't into suns


This is news to me.


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Regicide said:


> This is news to me.



which part?


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2015)

Go to bed DT


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Go to bed DT



only if you will come with me


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

. **


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## Regicide (Jun 4, 2015)

DarkTorrent said:


> which part?


The sickly imouto part.


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## DarkTorrent (Jun 4, 2015)

Regicide said:


> The sickly imouto part.



I don't have the link 

you could ask in the main convo for the link to Stables sickly imouto RP, they'll understand


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## Regicide (Jun 4, 2015)

Fuck that. Too lazy.


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## Sherlōck (Jun 5, 2015)

Law uses Gamma knife & Ichebei uses whatever hax he has.

Its a tie.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jun 5, 2015)

Gamma Knife doesn't ignore durability .


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## shade0180 (Jun 5, 2015)

Did bleach get any upgrade?


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## Haro (Jun 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> Did bleach get any upgrade?



Yeah Sub rel


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## Blαck (Jun 5, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Gamma Knife doesn't ignore durability .



Does it need to in the area of _room_?


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## Iwandesu (Jun 5, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> Did bleach get any upgrade?


it seems that it got a more legit speed estimation or wathever
no idea if ichibei gets it,tho


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jun 5, 2015)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> Does it need to in the area of _room_?



No, Gamma Knife doesn't need _Room_, still, Law better keep his Room on from the get go . Also, no one answered me and started getting off topic: Can he transform body parts into ink too ? Like black hair, black eyes ?

Edit: Also, does Ichibē need to say words to use his powers ? And just a question not related to this thread ... Does Yhwach also has this ability ?


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## Warlordgab (Jun 5, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> it seems that it got a more legit speed estimation or wathever
> no idea if ichibei gets it,tho



How fast are they now?  Is it enough to keep up with One Piece Top tiers?


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## Blαck (Jun 5, 2015)

nightbringer said:


> yes          .



Really? Bleach moving up in the world eh?


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## Warlordgab (Jun 5, 2015)

Can somebody here please link the calc that made Bleach faster than Mach 1900? Because the last calcs I read were mach 500+ and mach 700+


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 5, 2015)

calcs aren't everything young one


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## Byrd (Jun 5, 2015)

DarkTorrent said:


> have you been living under a rock this past couple of years?



I was fighting Flutter in the underworld for some time...


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## Iwandesu (Jun 5, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> How fast are they now?  Is it enough to keep up with One Piece Top tiers?


it all comes to which speed can be applied to ichigo actual travel speed (instead of stacking his burst one)
using both peak human speed  and kon stated travel speed (which is an unfair lowballing but the best we have till now) ivach tier guys are roughly mach 350-700


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## Sherlōck (Jun 5, 2015)

DarkTorrent said:


> only if you will come with me





Imagine said:


> .





DarkTorrent said:


> . **


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## Warlordgab (Jun 5, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> it all comes to which speed can be applied to ichigo actual travel speed (instead of stacking his burst one)
> using both peak human speed  and kon stated travel speed (which is an unfair lowballing but the best we have till now) ivach tier guys are roughly mach 350-700



Thanks for the explanation  

But still that's not enough to keep up with Law (and by extension Luffy)



nightbringer said:


> calcs aren't everything young one



Probably :sweat but they're the best way to get an idea of how fast character (or verse) can be


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## Regicide (Jun 5, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> But still that's not enough to keep up with Law (and by extension Luffy)


No, it pretty much is.

Differences in speed or destructive power of only a factor of two are basically considered negligible for the purposes of versus debates. We operate on a pretty huge margin of error.

That said.. the speed there could feasibly be more than twice as fast as the "high end" value. It's using Kon's speed as a baseline, but terminal velocity could also be argued as being valid.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 5, 2015)

a difference of 3 times is not exactly decisive actually
just when you are pitying 2 character with very similar stats
guys like byakuya could handily win against  luffy if they gets scalled to this (albeit they don't)
also what regi said and all
terminal velocity only issue is people being anal with the whole stairs bs


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## Hamaru (Jun 6, 2015)

That is a massive low-ball. Using Soi Fon's bullet feat and as a result using the speed of a bullet as a basis makes much more sense.


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

Oh boy, here we go again.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 6, 2015)

Only an actual moron would believe that calc is anywhere close to the real value of the feat.


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## Imagine (Jun 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Oh boy, here we go again.





nightbringer said:


> Only an actual moron would believe that calc is anywhere close to the real value of the feat.


Stop downplaying pls


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## Iwandesu (Jun 6, 2015)

> Only an actual moron would believe that calc is anywhere close to the real value of the feat.


^this
but no, using a short burst speed like soifon's one is by no means accurated
i for one am all for the sonic speed figure due to the sonic boom ichigo caused
or at least freaking terminal speed come on


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## Hamaru (Jun 6, 2015)

People are just trying to make this more complicated than it needs to be. Soi Fon is far from the fastest Captain, and her "short burst of speed" would also count as a shunpo....you know the thing that was stated to take 7 days in the first place. It isn't rocket science:

- We know it takes a week with Shunpo
- We know Soi Fon can casually cross around 9-10 feet before a bullet can cross 6 inches or so
- We know that her feat and things done in the SS arc are far faster than bullet speed
- We know using the speed of a bullet is still downplaying the feat but it gives us a base
- Using bullet speed for the base isn't calc stacking, since it's speed isn't based on a calc.


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## Sablés (Jun 6, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> ^this
> but no, using a short burst speed like soifon's one is by no means accurated
> i for one am all for the sonic speed figure due to the sonic boom ichigo caused
> or at least freaking terminal speed come on



Isn't Hisagi still mach 3 for dodging Findor's water slashes?

Why not use that. Not like shunpo was involved there.


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

The Findor water thing seems kinda iffy to me, to be honest.

Also, I'm pretty sure that'd be calc stacking.


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

Also, fucking seriously? The whole point of the blog was to establish a baseline that nobody could contest, since it's been argued that Bleach characters may not be able to maintain given speeds for hours/days on end over thousands of kilometers or what have you.


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## Sablés (Jun 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> The Findor water thing seems kinda iffy to me, to be honest.
> 
> Also, I'm pretty sure that'd be calc stacking.



Don't see why

High pressured water would cut through steel that fast at mach 3 and Hisagi dodged it. The only scaling used here would be suggesting Ichigo base speed is faster than Hisagi's. Not much different than the SoiFon/Bullet shit.


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## ZE (Jun 6, 2015)

Wouldn't Ichibei be a top tier in OP or am I wrong?


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## LazyWaka (Jun 6, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> ^this
> but no, using a short burst speed like soifon's one is by no means accurated
> i for one am all for the sonic speed figure *due to the sonic boom ichigo caused*
> or at least freaking terminal speed come on



We never take fancy air effects as sonic booms unless they are flat out stated to be sonic booms.



ZE said:


> Wouldn't Ichibei be a top tier in OP?



Yes he would.


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## Warlordgab (Jun 6, 2015)

I'm not entirely sure about this...



But it really seems more like a "sonic boom". Although isn't a "Sonic Boom" the pressure waves left by an object that surpasses the speed of sound? Wouldn't that mean this"fancy air effect" is indeed a "sonic boom"?


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## Hamaru (Jun 6, 2015)

Saying that we don't use bullet speed or the water speed as a base due to taking fatigue in account is bad logic. It is a fact that you get tired faster when running/moving faster. It would have taken up much more energy for Ichigo to make it back in half a day than it would have if it took 7 days. That is why boxers can jog 3-5 miles and only sprint/run about 1 mile. It just shows that Ichigo could easily shunpo continually for a week. Once again the time frame given was focused on Ichigo's shunpo, which I'm assuming is his baseic shunpo speed.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Also, fucking seriously? The whole point of the blog was to establish a baseline that nobody could contest, since it's been argued that Bleach characters may not be able to maintain given speeds for hours/days on end over thousands of kilometers or what have you.


that much is truth but doesn't make everything less of a bs low end 
hell, i couldn't care less about bleach but still think this is just too mean


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Don't see why
> 
> High pressured water would cut through steel that fast at mach 3 and Hisagi dodged it. The only scaling used here would be suggesting Ichigo base speed is faster than Hisagi's. Not much different than the SoiFon/Bullet shit.


Isn't that sort of assuming that cutting through the metal like that is a result of the water's speed and not that Findor's shit has a higher pressure than what our water cutters are capable of?


iwandesu said:


> that much is truth but doesn't make everything less of a bs low end
> hell, i couldn't care less about bleach but still think this is just too mean


Is it bullshit? Probably.

But at this point, think it's just less of a headache to go with something nobody could disagree with instead of going in circles like we've been doing.


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## Lucy75 (Jun 6, 2015)

There was a thread done where there was a debate over law vs BM naruto and it was agreed that law does ignore durability with his slashes so he should win here imo.


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## Lucy75 (Jun 6, 2015)

Also I don't agree with using mach 3 for the recent bleach calc that feels like calc stacking. Just stick with the mach 300 to 700 figure.


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## Sablés (Jun 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Isn't that sort of assuming that cutting through the metal like that is a result of the water's speed and not that Findor's shit has a higher pressure than what our water cutters are capable of?
> Is it bullshit? Probably.
> 
> But at this point, think it's just less of a headache to go with something nobody could disagree with instead of going in circles like we've been doing.



Okay, but I never insisted the mach 3 itself was legit, I was arguing against it being calc-stacking.  

Which it isn't, dumbass 



Lucy75 said:


> There was a thread done where there was a debate over law vs BM naruto and it was agreed that law does ignore durability with his slashes so he should win here imo.



Ichibei =/= BM Nardo


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Which it isn't, dumbass


It is if you want to get a speed for the Soul King's arm and shit by getting a distance for Strawberry-kun's travel, Tables.


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## Sablés (Jun 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> It is if you want to get a speed for the Soul King's arm and shit by getting a distance for Strawberry-kun's travel, Tables.



How would it be any different from what's already been done. You'd use Kon's/Peak human's affirmed speed to scale to Ichigo. This is just using Hisagi dodging Findor's water (again no calc involved) as a base

I mean, this could be one of those rare, once in an Earth-razing meteor shower moments where I'm wrong...but you haven't really given me a reason. 


Dumbass


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

Liquid said:


> How would it be any different from what's already been done. You'd use Kon's/Peak human's affirmed speed to scale to Ichigo. This is just using Hisagi dodging Findor's water (again no calc involved) as a base


What kind of speed does Findor's water have, Tables?

Answer me that.


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## Imagine (Jun 6, 2015)

God someone shoot this thread out of it's misery


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## xmysticgohanx (Jun 6, 2015)

Hamaru said:


> Saying that we don't use bullet speed or the water speed as a base due to taking fatigue in account is bad logic. It is a fact that you get tired faster when running/moving faster. It would have taken up much more energy for Ichigo to make it back in half a day than it would have if it took 7 days. That is why boxers can *jog 3-5 *miles and only *sprint/run about 1 mile*. It just shows that Ichigo could easily shunpo continually for a week. Once again the time frame given was focused on Ichigo's shunpo, which I'm assuming is his baseic shunpo speed.



As an ex boxer make that into 6-7 miles and .5-1 mile respectively

btw with terminal speed or whatever you guys are talking about, how fast would that make bleach?


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## Regicide (Jun 7, 2015)

Someone put Imagine out of his misery first.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 7, 2015)

I volunteer for that task


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## Imagine (Jun 7, 2015)

Step up brah


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## Hamaru (Jun 7, 2015)

xmysticgohanx said:


> As an ex boxer make that into 6-7 miles and .5-1 mile respectively
> 
> btw with terminal speed or whatever you guys are talking about, how fast would that make bleach?



Case and point right here, which is why there is no reason why we shouldn't at least use bullet speed for a base.


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## manidk (Jun 7, 2015)

Imagine said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Idk about that.

Doffy seemed pretty convinced that Vergo's CoA could block it.

So either law got stronger than he used to be or...?


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## Iwandesu (Jun 7, 2015)

> As an ex boxer make that into 6-7 miles and .5-1 mile respectively
> 
> btw with terminal speed or whatever you guys are talking about, how fast would that make bleach?


about mach 1600


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## Imagine (Jun 7, 2015)

manidk said:


> Idk about that.
> 
> Doffy seemed pretty convinced that Vergo's CoA could block it.
> 
> So either law got stronger than he used to be or...?



Or his slashes ignore durability. 

Dofla doesn't know the actual mechanics behind the ope ope no mi. He's seen Law cut shit but he actually doesn't the details behind it.


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## Sherlōck (Jun 7, 2015)

Lel Magina. 

The only reason it managed to ignore durability was cause Force+Haki  of the slash > Vergo's Haki which allowed it to hit Vergo's real body.


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## ShadowReaper (Jun 7, 2015)

Law because of speed advantage, comparable haxx and ignores durability to some extent.


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## manidk (Jun 7, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Or his slashes ignore durability.
> 
> Dofla doesn't know the actual mechanics behind the ope ope no mi. He's seen Law cut shit but he actually doesn't the details behind it.



I disagree. 

Dofla and crew had obviously studied to Ope Ope No Mi before acquiring it, and had knowledge all the way up to it's ultimate ability.

Dofla stating that Vergo's CoA would over Room slashes seemed to be more based on experience that guess work.  Doffy doesn't seem like the type to just make statements like that, especially with something he has experience with.

Law basically had to go all-out and wreck a whole mountain range just to overcome Vergo's haki, after all.


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## tanman (Jun 7, 2015)

In my opinion, when Law's ability works, it works completely. So that means if we define CoA as an extension of durability then there is a very distinct level of durability at which characters should be immune to Law's ability. Considering what Law was able to cut (Vergo w/ heavy CoA and an entire mountain range), people with island level durability should be 100% immune at least to the bisection element.

Regardless, if I don't think about calcs, I would immediately say Ichibe takes it without much trouble.
But I suppose, where Bleach is currently calced, that's definitely not the case.


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## lokoxDZz (Jun 7, 2015)

tanman said:


> In my opinion, when Law's ability works, it works completely. So that means if we define CoA as an extension of durability then there is a very distinct level of durability at which characters should be immune to Law's ability. Considering what Law was able to cut (Vergo w/ heavy CoA and an entire mountain range), people with island level durability should be 100% immune at least to the bisection element.
> 
> Regardless, if I don't think about calcs, I would immediately say Ichibe takes it without much trouble.
> But I suppose, where Bleach is currently calced, that's definitely not the case.



Ichibei has better stats, and better hax than law, only losing on speed afaik.


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## Blαck (Jun 7, 2015)

What does Ichibei's color manipulation hax actually do? Did we ever get to see any actual damage or did Bach ruin that chance?


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## Regicide (Jun 7, 2015)

tanman said:


> But I suppose, where Bleach is currently calced, that's definitely not the case.


What makes you say that?

He outclasses Law in every stat that isn't speed.


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## Dr. White (Jun 8, 2015)

manidk said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Dofla and crew had obviously studied to Ope Ope No Mi before acquiring it, and had knowledge all the way up to it's ultimate ability.
> 
> ...



Falso, mate-o.

Haki isn't just a durability buff. That comes posterori to what Haki is, which is willpower manipulation. It gives durability/offense boost, but also dispels the effects of devil fruit users (like Marigold/Sento hitting Luffy, Vergo being "immune" to Law, stopping Logia intang, etc). That is the only reason haki can stop Law's spatial manipulation. His ability will bypass anything else that isn't a dispell or willpower manipulation because he isn't cutting the objects just the space between them which is why humans don't die, but inanimates get messed up.

Also Law didn't need to use the mountain cut to stop Vergo. That was used for dramatic effect signifying his revenge for Cora, and declaration of the New age coming to light to Dofla. Plus Law had literally just gotten his heart back, he was killing two birds with one stone. That's the whole purpose he was in that room in the first place when Vergo walked up on him.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jun 9, 2015)

Haki is not durability for crying out loud . Go read the first time Rayleigh talked about it again and you'll get it .


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