# Luffy vs Reed Richards



## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

Who would win between these elastic men?

Bloodlust is on for Luffy only cause I don't know how this would affect Reed's abiliy, but if you think it would help him  go ahead and do it.


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## Gunners (May 7, 2008)

Reed would stomp Luffy, I think his powers work in a way which would completely nullify Luffy.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

^ Why's that?


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## masamune1 (May 7, 2008)

They are equal in almost every way, except that Luffy is stronger.

Of course, Reed is far, far, _faaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrr_ smarter.

And Reed can (presumably) swim.

Reed wins.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

Mind you Luffy is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR stronger faster and has the better techinques.
Luffy's battle instincts are far better than Reed's. He was able to tell who was the real Mr.3 even among his wax clones.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 7, 2008)

Exactly how is Luffy going to hurt Reed? Blunt trauma won't work since Reed's body has the same properties as Luffy's(actually, I'd say his powers are even better because he doesn't have to retract like Luffy has to).


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

Simple, with his immense strength he can hold down Reed and suffocate him

And where do you gather that Luffy has to retract, luffy never retratcs when he's using pistol, gatling gun, etc. The ones that he uses retracting are bazooka, missile and bell I think.

But the major difference is thaT Luffy is THAT much faster than reed, so he can speedblitz. And they are not immune to pain, given that reed takes enough damage he will pass out.


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## Ryuk (May 7, 2008)

They get tangled up in a knot.


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## Superrazien (May 7, 2008)

It would be a stalemate for most of the match. If reed knows about the Devil Fruit then Luffy is screwed, on the other hand they both know the weakness to a rubber body, so I guess who ever gets a sword first wins.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

Lol at reed Richards using a Sword, as useless as Luffy is with one he would probably still be better.


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## soupnazi235 (May 7, 2008)

This is how it goes:
Reed by himself probably get stomped. Spiderman's punches KO'd him before. But this is him COMPLETELY on his own.
Reed with tech stomps unbelievably hard.
Reed with prep stomps even harder. A LOT harder. 
Reed wins most scenarios.


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## Gunners (May 7, 2008)

It wouldn't be a stale mate. Reed has greater control over his stretching Luffy has to someone stick outwards to do so Reed can just stretch. Anyway to make it simple Reed would suffocate Luffy.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

Jio said:


> It wouldn't be a stale mate. Reed has greater control over his stretching Luffy has to someone stick outwards to do so Reed can just stretch. Anyway to make it simple Reed would suffocate Luffy.



You think that Reed can suffocate Luffy who is much much stronger than him? Even if he could don't you think that Luffy would use Fuusen (the big airball body thing) to release himself or even hold his breath for hours?

Without prep reed cannot win.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 7, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> Simple, with his immense strength he can hold down Reed and suffocate him


Ah, no. Unlike Luffy, Reed doesn't need to use inertia to stretch as he can do it practically no matter what, so that tactic would fail(moving his neck or flattening out onto the ground).



> And where do you gather that Luffy has to retract, luffy never retratcs when he's using pistol, gatling gun, etc. The ones that he uses retracting are bazooka, missile and bell I think.


All of his attacks retract or else his limbs would stay stretched out.



> But the major difference is thaT Luffy is THAT much faster than reed, so he can speedblitz.


And do what? Uselessly try to pummel him? Reed could just smother him and Luffy would have no way to get out.



> And they are not immune to pain, given that reed takes enough damage he will pass out.


That may be true, but Reed will more than likely smother Luffy before Luffy can cause any sort of phyiscal harm to Reed.



> If reed knows about the Devil Fruit then Luffy is screwed, on the other hand they both know the weakness to a rubber body, so I guess who ever gets a sword first wins.


Nah, Reed doesn't need to know about the Devil Fruit to win and getting a sword wouldn't really help Luffy since he lacks the skills to actually use one and Reed's superhuman durability would make it a pointless exercise in futility.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

soupnazi235 said:


> This is how it goes:
> Reed by himself probably get stomped. Spiderman's punches KO'd him before. But this is him COMPLETELY on his own.
> Reed with tech stomps unbelievably hard.
> Reed with prep stomps even harder. A LOT harder.
> Reed wins most scenarios.




I agree that reed would win with technology or prep, but any other scenario he cannot beat Luffy.


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## soupnazi235 (May 7, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> I agree that reed would win with technology or prep, but any other scenario he cannot beat Luffy.



Well, I guess it is only three scenarios, though. We pretty much covered it. If Reed gets help from some of his friends then Luffy's pretty fucked, but that's not what this fight is about.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> Ah, no. Unlike Luffy, Reed doesn't need to use inertia to stretch as he can do it practically no matter what, so that tactic would fail(moving his neck or flattening out onto the ground).



Even if Luffy has to use inertia he is so fast that it doesn't matter anyways otherwise it would have troubled him in other fights before.



			
				ShadowReplication1480 said:
			
		

> All of his attacks retract or else his limbs would stay stretched out.



Duh, that adds to his power.



			
				ShadowReplication1480 said:
			
		

> And do what? Uselessly try to pummel him? Reed could just smother him and Luffy would have no way to get out.



really, did you know that Luffy pushed two buildings apart ithout momentum? Whats a 120-160 pound person gonna do to him?



			
				ShadowReplication1480 said:
			
		

> That may be true, but Reed will more than likely smother Luffy before Luffy can cause any sort of phyiscal harm to Reed.



See above



			
				ShadowReplication1480 said:
			
		

> Nah, Reed doesn't need to know about the Devil Fruit to win and getting a sword wouldn't really help Luffy since he lacks the skills to actually use one and Reed's superhuman durability would make it a pointless exercise in futility.



Mind you Luffy's durability is just as good.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

soupnazi235 said:


> Well, I guess it is only three scenarios, though. We pretty much covered it. If Reed gets help from some of his friends then Luffy's pretty fucked, but that's not what this fight is about.



But thats why i made it Luffy vs Reed and not Luffy vs Reed and friends


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## soupnazi235 (May 7, 2008)

I'm pretty sure Luffy's durability is waaaay above Reed's. Why? Luffy can _probably_ tank hits from Spidey.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 7, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> Even if Luffy has to use inertia he is so fast that it doesn't matter anyways otherwise it would have troubled him in other fights before.


Luffy never fought someone whose rubber powers were better than his own.




> Duh, that adds to his power.




Apparently, you can't read.

You eariler:


> *And where do you gather that Luffy has to retract, luffy never retratcs when he's using pistol, gatling gun, etc. The ones that he uses retracting are bazooka, missile and bell I think.*



What you quoted from me:


> *All of his attacks retract or else his limbs would stay stretched out.*


Now do I *really* have to go into what was meant when I brought up all of Luffy's attacks retracting or can we just move on?



> really, did you know that Luffy pushed two buildings apart ithout momentum? Whats a 120-160 pound person gonna do to him?


Reed is quite a bit more flexible and malleble than those two buildings from Water 7 and won't give Luffy the resistence to push off with..



> Mind you Luffy's durability is just as good.


Uh, I never questioned his durability in any of my posts, so please try again.


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## ?_Camorra_? (May 7, 2008)

Luffy can't beat Reed with punches only,anyway with litle prep Reed stomps the OP verse


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## soupnazi235 (May 7, 2008)

Shadow, Reed isn't winning a 1 on 1 fight with no kind of aid whatsoever. One punch from Luffy and it's lights out


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## ?_Camorra_? (May 7, 2008)

Luffy is overrated,Reed fought against galactic level villains,Luffy aint got shit on him.Marvel>>99%manga verses


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## soupnazi235 (May 7, 2008)

That's not really a legitimate argument for why Reed would win with no aid, but nice try.

Reed gets KO'd by Spiderman's punches. Luffy takes it in ONE HIT


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## Batman (May 7, 2008)

I don't even think Reed can with with technology or prep, Luffy's just portrayed as too godly. Maybe if they fought in the ocean.


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## soupnazi235 (May 7, 2008)

Batman said:


> I don't even think Reed can with with technology or prep, Luffy's just portrayed as too godly. Maybe if they fought in the ocean.



^
You've never read a comic with Reed Richards in it, have you?


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 7, 2008)

soupnazi235 said:


> Shadow, Reed isn't winning a 1 on 1 fight with no kind of aid whatsoever. One punch from Luffy and it's lights out


He has to hit Reed in the face in order to achieve that and Luffy rarely hits people in the face first as he usually goes for body shots. And since Reed can stretch his body for at least 3 miles before feeling any sort of phyiscal pain, it's more likely that he'll take the hit in the mid-section and probably smother Luffy when his fist is retracting by latching on.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> Luffy never fought someone whose rubber powers were better than his own.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. Even if Reeds powers are better that doesn't help him any because Luffy is faster, stronger, more agile, has less reaction time and better battle instincts.

2. Fine I admit that I was confused by your post, but that changes nothing.

3. Trying that against Luffy won't work because Luffy can:

Use Soru to dodge
Use Fuusen to hold his breath until Reed tires so Luffy can push him off.
Use gear third to increase his size and literally just walk out.
And while Reed is more maleable, Luffy is more agile and much much faster and can literally just push him of.


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## soupnazi235 (May 7, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> He has to hit Reed in the face in order to achieve that and Luffy rarely hits people in the face first as he usually goes for body shots. And since Reed can stretch his body for at least 3 miles before feeling any sort of phyiscal pain, it's more likely that he'll take the hit in the mid-section and probably smother Luffy when his fist is retracting by latching on.



This is not convincing me. Bloodlust is on, remember? I'm guessing he's gonna want Reed to feel the PAIN


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> He has to hit Reed in the face in order to achieve that and Luffy rarely hits people in the face first as he usually goes for body shots. And since Reed can stretch his body for at least 3 miles before feeling any sort of phyiscal pain, it's more likely that he'll take the hit in the mid-section and probably smother Luffy when his fist is retracting by latching on.



Trying to latch on to Luffy is useless, since Luffy has another fist and another two legs that can kick him senseless before he can latch on, and even after he latches on Gear third or Fuusen can get him free.


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## Batman (May 7, 2008)

soupnazi235 said:


> ^
> You've never read a comic with Reed Richards in it, have you?



It's BECASUSE I've read the FF comics that I come to this conclusion. Not b/c reed isn't powerful and smart and blah blah blah, but when I compare it to the insane-o amount of disgustingly strong power that Luffy has, Reed looses, especially in a one on one fight.

didn't you read civil war where Spiderman basically one shotted reed? If spiderman can do that, surely Luffy Can. Luffy has too much "Mangaism yes I can maximum infinite god juice" (yest that is the technical term) in him to lose.


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## soupnazi235 (May 7, 2008)

So did you skip over the parts where you see what Reed does with technology and prep or something?


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## Batman (May 7, 2008)

soupnazi235 said:


> So did you skip over the parts where you see what Reed does with technology and prep or something?



lmao, nice arguments. I'll wait until you try and say something other than what you think I do or do not know.


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## Banhammer (May 7, 2008)

As you've seen with wolverine, swords do not hurt Reed Richards, and he can just adapt to any punches lufy throws


Oh and Reed's macrobiotic structure means he dosen't need his lungs to  breathe


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## ?_Camorra_? (May 7, 2008)

Nobody fucks with mr.Fantastic around


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

@ BanHammer

Really is that why he was oneshotted by Spiderman?

Luffy is stronger than Spiderman, he can push two buildings apart with no momentum.


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## neodragzero (May 7, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> He has to hit Reed in the face in order to achieve that and Luffy rarely hits people in the face first as he usually goes for body shots.


this
this

this
this

this

Rarely hits people on the face? I can easily enough pull out more scans of him aiming for the head. Punching towards the head is pretty much the generic thing for any hand to hand striker type to do... Body blows only seems to come up when the former doesn't work or when you're pretty sure that a body blow will work.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 7, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> 1. Even if Reeds powers are better that doesn't help him any because Luffy is faster, stronger, more agile, has less reaction time and better battle instincts.


Reed's powers being better negates most of Luffy's advantages as unless Luffy's going for head shots to knock him out(which he'd need prior info for), going for Reed's body is not the smartest thing in the world to do.



> 3. Trying that against Luffy won't work because Luffy can:
> 
> Use Soru to dodge





And exactly how many times has Luffy tried to dodge with his arm/leg extended?



> Use Fuusen to hold his breath until Reed tires so Luffy can push him off.


Yeah, Reed's not going to get tired while smothering him.



> Use gear third to increase his size and literally just walk out.


Reed's body can stretch for 3 miles before he feels any strain, Luffy's not going to grow that big.



> And while Reed is more maleable, Luffy is more agile and much much faster and can literally just push him of.


Giving Reed another limb to latch onto isn't exactly smart.



> This is not convincing me. Bloodlust is on, remember? I'm guessing he's gonna want Reed to feel the PAIN


Didn't see the edit til now. Doesn't really change my position much in any case.



> Trying to latch on to Luffy is useless, since Luffy has another fist and another two legs that can kick him senseless before he can latch on, and even after he latches on Gear third or Fuusen can get him free.


He'd have to connect with Reed's head to kick him senseless and neither Gear Third or Hone Fuusen would stretch Reed enough to get him off.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

neodragzero said:


> this
> this
> 
> this
> ...



True I can vouch for that seeing that I too practice martial arts

Head shots are simply that more effective, a punch or kick to the head will leav your opponent dazed for a while, I've been on the dishing and receiving end of this.


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## ?_Camorra_? (May 7, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> True I can vouch for that seeing that I too practice martial arts
> 
> Head shots are simply that more effective, a punch or kick to the head will leav your opponent dazed for a while, I've been on the dishing and receiving end of this.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEv6i-lhIWc[/YOUTUBE]


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 7, 2008)

neodragzero said:


> this
> this
> 
> this
> ...


Did you actually read what I said? I said he generally doesn't do it at first, not that he never does it. Sheesh...


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## neodragzero (May 7, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> Did you actually read what I said? I said he generally doesn't do it at first, not that he never does it. Sheesh...



You said rarely and at first. I didn't accuse you of saying anything beyond that. Just that your rarely is a bit odd when he seems to aim for the head the plenty of times right from the get go of a fight. Body blows for Luffy usually only occur later on in a fight or quite simply when he's doing a Gomu Gomu attack with more than just a simple force behind it such as the added rotational force of Rifle, the combo spam of Gatling, or the build up of power that's release into a Cannon.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> Reed's powers being better negates most of Luffy's advantages as unless Luffy's going for head shots to knock him out(which he'd need prior info for), going for Reed's body is not the smartest thing in the world to do.
> 
> 
> And exactly how many times has Luffy tried to dodge with his arm/leg extended?
> ...



Nullify how? being able to stretch better won't help him catch Luffy with Soru who can then strike his head.

How will reed dodge Gatling gun anyways. How will Reed have time to stretch anyways? Luffy is much faster than a bullet, he'll move so fast and strike the much slower Reed on the head.


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## Blaizen (May 7, 2008)

wiesmann said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEv6i-lhIWc[/YOUTUBE]




lol I'm not a fatalist like that, we're not even allowed to do that in the ring or during practice.

No one mentioned streetfights though. Anything goes there, such as bashing your opponents head into the pavement.


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## Ippy (May 7, 2008)

Reed's been KOed by World War Hulk, if that makes any difference.

Bear in mind, though, that that version of the Hulk was claimed to be the strongest ever.


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## Tash (May 7, 2008)

Luffy's weaker than WWH though so it doesn't make much of a difference. But tossing Reed far, far away works just as well.


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## neodragzero (May 7, 2008)

What exactly was that projectile that Taskmaster fired upon Reed in Civil War? Keep in mind that I consider what Mark Millar did in that event to be...kind of dumb.


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## Dave (May 7, 2008)

Hasn't Reed given himself close to Thing level strength before?

He's fighting Namor:




"You can't hurt me physically Namor, I'm indestructible."

Fights Onslaught:
Link removed


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 7, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> Nullify how? being able to stretch better won't help him catch Luffy with Soru who can then strike his head.


If he strikes him in the body with Whip or Bullet, Luffy's pretty much done half the job for him by immersing half of his fist/leg in Reed's body. Moving as fast as Soru is something he doesn't do when retracting his limbs with single strikes like those I just mentioned.



> How will reed dodge Gatling gun anyways. How will Reed have time to stretch anyways? Luffy is much faster than a bullet, he'll move so fast and strike the much slower Reed on the head.


He probably wouldn't dodge Gatling, so he'd need to take Luffy down before he uses it. As for the time thing, Reed doesn't really need time to stretch as it happens at will, though he needs a bit of time to do stuff like make his hands into weapons(though they'd be practically useless against Luffy).



> What exactly was that projectile that Taskmaster fired upon Reed in Civil War? Keep in mind that I consider what Mark Millar did in that event to be...kind of dumb.


Just do like I do and pretend it never happened. Makes things much easier. Fucking Penance...


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## Blaizen (May 8, 2008)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> If he strikes him in the body with Whip or Bullet, Luffy's pretty much done half the job for him by immersing half of his fist/leg in Reed's body. Moving as fast as Soru is something he doesn't do when retracting his limbs with single strikes like those I just mentioned.
> 
> 
> He probably wouldn't dodge Gatling, so he'd need to take Luffy down before he uses it. As for the time thing, Reed doesn't really need time to stretch as it happens at will, though he needs a bit of time to do stuff like make his hands into weapons(though they'd be practically useless against Luffy).
> ...



1. really, what if he uses soru and then punches his face instead of striking and then using soru?

2. True but his reaction speed is not good enough for him to register Luffy even beggining to move, kinda like a bullet.

3. Erm, i'll assume that wasn't directed at me...


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## The World (May 8, 2008)

wiesmann said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEv6i-lhIWc[/YOUTUBE]



You made my day that much better.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 8, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> 1. really, what if he uses soru and then punches his face instead of striking and then using soru?


If he goes for the face, he's probably going to win, if he goes for the body, he's probably going to lose. Good enough for you?



> 2. True but his reaction speed is not good enough for him to register Luffy even beggining to move, kinda like a bullet.


The guy fights supervillans for a living and is one of the smartest people on Marvel Earth, you think he hasn't dealt with speedsters before? Hell, Luffy yells out his attack names before doing them, so all Reed needs to do is hear/react to Luffy go "Gomu Gomu no..." as that would give away his position no matter how much faster he is than Reed.



> 3. Erm, i'll assume that wasn't directed at me...




It's kinda obvious that wasn't directed at you because you didn't post it.


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## Vault (May 8, 2008)

OP why make a thread where almost all th points people make you still bias luffy 

but tie me thinks


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## Banhammer (May 8, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> @ BanHammer
> 
> Really is that why he was oneshotted by Spiderman?
> 
> Luffy is stronger than Spiderman, he can push two buildings apart with no momentum.



You do understand that spiderman beat punched FireLord, a guy who can punch planets appart, into submission, while wearing the simbionte (wich happens to be extremly weak against fire? I mean, even a firecracker will scare the shit out him)
Reed Tanked hits from the Thing nad the Hulk

Luffy's stregnth is lulz


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## zan (May 8, 2008)

I would think luffy is atless as strong as the thing...... Seeing how he was able to fight with the gold metaled to his arm plus everything els he has done.....


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 8, 2008)

Dave said:


> Hasn't Reed given himself close to Thing level strength before?
> 
> He's fighting Namor:
> 
> ...



That's jobbing if I've ever seen it


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## Dave (May 9, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> That's jobbing if I've ever seen it



I guess you've never seen it.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 9, 2008)

I think I have now


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## Xirk (May 9, 2008)

Luffy can just wraps his fingers around Richards throat until he suffocates IMO.


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## Dave (May 9, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> I think I have now



I don't think so.



Xirk said:


> Luffy can just wraps his fingers around Richards throat until he suffocates IMO.



Well, he can't, Reed can slip out of hit.


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## Superrazien (May 9, 2008)

Seriously if no one is allowed weapons this battle cloud last for days. Reed might be able to win because Luffy would leave because he would be to dam hungry.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 9, 2008)

Dave said:


> I don't think so.



So Reed is written as a Namor-level guy once and it means it sticks?

kewl

I like how this works.


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## Dave (May 9, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> So Reed is written as a Namor-level guy once and it means it sticks?
> 
> kewl
> 
> I like how this works.



Except Reed wasn't written as a Namor level guy.  Reed doesn't have the strength to actually put Namor down, but Namor couldn't hurt Reed...


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## Neo-jplaya (May 9, 2008)

the most common theory of how reed could win is by smothering Luffy and suffocating him. There is only one problem with this theory:

GOMU GOMU NO STORM.smothering will not work on that.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 9, 2008)

Dave said:


> Except Reed wasn't written as a Namor level guy.  Reed doesn't have the strength to actually put Namor down, but Namor couldn't hurt Reed...



He hurt Namor in those scans and being 'indestructible'? Ummm sure


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## Dave (May 9, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> He hurt Namor in those scans and being 'indestructible'? Ummm sure



He slammed Namor against the ground, that's about the same amount of damage as Spiderman running up and punching Namor, which isn't much.  Namor wasn't hurt, not seriously or significantly...and Reed has always had a level of durability because his body was so pliable.

Question, do you read F4?


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## Xirk (May 9, 2008)

Dave said:
			
		

> Well, he can't, Reed can slip out of hit.



Then Luffy can just tie Reed's neck into a not and tie Reed's hand's behind his back in a not too while he's at it. It shouldn't take to long for Reed's to suffocate.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 9, 2008)

Dave said:


> He slammed Namor against the ground, that's about the same amount of damage as Spiderman running up and punching Namor, which isn't much.  Namor wasn't hurt, not seriously or significantly...and Reed has always had a level of durability because his body was so pliable.



The fact is that somehow still made Namor go 'Uuggh'



> Question, do you read F4?



Only since Hulk's rampage in Las Vegas


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## Dave (May 9, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> The fact is that somehow still made Namor go 'Uuggh'
> 
> 
> 
> Only since Hulk's rampage in Las Vegas



Black Panther punched Namor off his feet.  Spiderman's punch made Doc Samson groan.

Much weaker characters make stronger ones 'ughh' all the time.  I can go punch Mike Tyson and he'll 'uggh' it's not like I hurt him.

So then you should know Reed's durability.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 9, 2008)

However there are instances where something far less has hurt Reed


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## Dave (May 9, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> However there are instances where something far less has hurt Reed



For instance?

He also took multiple hits from WWH, so.


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## Enclave (May 9, 2008)

soupnazi235 said:


> I'm pretty sure Luffy's durability is waaaay above Reed's. Why? Luffy can _probably_ tank hits from Spidey.



Reed routinely tanks hits from Doom and Thing (he also has restrained Thing many times which in itself a MASSIVE feat, he does this thanks to his durability, not strength by the way).  Being KOed by Spidy is a inconsistant low showing.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 9, 2008)

Dave said:


> For instance?



Civil War



> He also took multiple hits from WWH, so.



That's a moot point because Hulk doesn't kill. A baby could tank hits from WWH


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## Dave (May 9, 2008)

So one hit from Spiderman > multiple hits from WWH and Namor?


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 9, 2008)

As I stated before, *anyone* will survive multiple punches from WWH so that's not a durability feat. Also that bit of writing is a bit shoddy, how often does Reed brag about being  physically indestructible? Seriously, Reed is not a bragger


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## Dave (May 9, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> As I stated before, *anyone* will survive multiple punches from WWH so that's not a durability feat. Also that bit of writing is a bit shoddy, how often does Reed brag about being  physically indestructible? Seriously, Reed is not a bragger



But anyone will not survive unharmed...seriously, you're not even making sense.

Am I going to have to show you all the people WWH hurt with punches? 

And no that's not bad writing, Reed was angry with Namor, everyone knows the relationship those two have, and at the moment Namor was hitting on Susan.  Reed telling Namor he could never beat him is not bad writing.  Honestly, is this your attempt at trying to disprove these feats?


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## zan (May 10, 2008)

Well the question lays.. Where would luffy level would be in marvel.. How strong would he be???

He has drag a goldin ball that was smelted to his arm....
He was able to kick a person throw soiled lime stone. 
Was able to cover long decadents with stretching.
Was able to knock over two building with no leverage.
....etc...


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## hammer (May 10, 2008)

id think luffy whould win i mean seriusly  and he CAN strch longer then 3 miles also so dont say since he yells out attack names reed can doge i mean seriusly jet pistol takes less then .5 secs one punch to the face with a jet attack and reeds done


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## Dave (May 10, 2008)

helpmenow316 said:


> Well the question lays.. Where would luffy level would be in marvel.. How strong would he be???
> 
> He has drag a goldin ball that was smelted to his arm....
> He was able to kick a person throw soiled lime stone.
> ...



He's probably somewhere around Class 70.. he could be lower, not sure really, I know he's not in the same league as Namor and Hulk though.

Hulk and Namor are Class 100


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## Dave (May 10, 2008)

hammer said:


> id think luffy whould win i mean seriusly  and he CAN strch longer then 3 miles also so dont say since he yells out attack names reed can doge i mean seriusly jet pistol takes less then .5 secs one punch to the face with a jet attack and reeds done



No, Reed took a direct hit to the face from WWH and wasn't hurt.


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## Grandmaster Kane (May 10, 2008)

Luffy would be class 100

but he wouldn't be up there with the big boys like namor, thor or juggs


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## zan (May 10, 2008)

Dave said:


> He's probably somewhere around Class 70.. he could be lower, not sure really, I know he's not in the same league as Namor and Hulk though.
> 
> Hulk and Namor are Class 100


 like the other guy said... his prob in the lower 100s... but with the next upgrade   to gear 4-6 or whatever they call it.. There shouldn't be no reason why he couldn't be somewhere with namor or the hulk.....

Once luffy masters the gears to be able to use them at the same time..there shouldn't be any reason why he could be up there with em.....


I know we cant upgrade charaters with power up that haven't been shown yet.. But seeing that we are just in the middle of one piece... And he is already at level 100 in marvel.. With in another year or so there is no reason why he can't surpass namor or reeds by the end....


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## Dave (May 11, 2008)

What did he do that was Class 100?

Also, WWH held together the tectonic plates of a planet, Luffy is no where close to that, and I doubt he ever will be.


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## Grandmaster Kane (May 11, 2008)

he lifted a 300 ton gold ball and punched with it

that is plenty

and i already said he would never be near the big boys


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## Dave (May 11, 2008)

Xanxus said:


> he lifted a 300 ton gold ball and punched with it
> 
> that is plenty
> 
> and i already said he would never be near the big boys



Oh, I see.

And I was talking to helpmenow, he thinks Luffy will be on Namor level or above.


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## Grandmaster Kane (May 11, 2008)

namor clean and jerked over 150,000 tons

no fucking way luffy is comparing


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## zan (May 11, 2008)

At this momment maybe not but who knows what oda will have luffy do at the end of the manga or hell even in the next arch....Keep in mind this is a worlld where a person can carry a ship size canon ball with one arm ....Ferdinand out for the match
The fight with lucci was a huge power up... 

The mange is only half way throw and odds are he will need to gain a huge power up before he is able to become the king of the pirates.....

Ferdinand out for the match


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## Stan Lee (May 11, 2008)

I think Reed would win.


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## Enclave (May 11, 2008)

helpmenow316 said:


> At this momment maybe not but who knows what oda will have luffy do at the end of the manga or hell even in the next arch....Keep in mind this is a worlld where a person can carry a ship size canon ball with one arm ....Stage 9.258
> The fight with lucci was a huge power up...
> 
> The mange is only half way throw and odds are he will need to gain a huge power up before he is able to become the king of the pirates.....
> ...



Hulk once smashed an asteroid that was bigger than the earth.  Trust me, Oda isn't making Luffy anywhere near that strong, ever.


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## Power16 (May 11, 2008)

I could definitely see Luffy reaching Namor level of strength feat because of strength feat like Garp cannonball and Saul launching Buster call ship but anything beyond that is wishful thinking.

Dave you seem to be in that mindset of Class 100 being the big dog (Hulk, Thor, Namor, etc) but you miss the whole definition of it which basically anyone who can lift in the 100 ton and beyond. Luffy is already in the 100 ton just not in comparison to higher ups Marvel league. Those big dog in Marvel are already in the 100,000 to millions and millions ton range.


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## zan (May 11, 2008)

Enclave said:


> Hulk once smashed an asteroid that was bigger than the earth.  Trust me, Oda isn't making Luffy anywhere near that strong, ever.


Well you never know man.. Oda come out with some of the oddest things..... 

A cyb that runs on soda a walking skeleton  a guy who can lift ship size canon ball...etc..... 
Plus am not saying that he will become that strong but seeing that the manga is only half way done and there are still people who are allot stronger then luffy...So in order to beat em he has to get stronger....

Who knows maybe luffy end up lifting a island or something in a gear mode... Who know...


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## zan (May 11, 2008)

Also iv been reading up on MF.... He isn't that physically strong.... He is vastly durable..But he doesn't have any physical feat of true strength.... 




> Powers
> Mister Fantastic can shift his body (or portions of same) into a super-malleable state, enabling him to stretch, compress, expand, deform, elongate, contract or otherwise reshape his physical form at will. He can stretch his limbs, neck and torso to incredible lengths, though extending himself beyond approximately 1500 feet is a serious physical strain. When assuming non-humanoid shapes, he tends to favor simple constructs such as barricades, canopies, cylinders, cubes, nets, parachutes and spheres, generally assuming a volume of no greater than 1.7 cubic feet (though he can expand far beyond that volume if the shape he forms is thin-shelled and hollow). He can render himself paper-thin, or become slim enough in diameter to thread the eye of a needle. His malleable form renders him relatively immune to most conventional impacts; for instance, bullets fired into his body tend to bounce back at the shooter, and he can bodily contain small explosions. It is almost impossible to lacerate or puncture his skin unless he consciously allows such penetrations. By reshaping his features, Reed can disguise himself at will.
> 
> Abilities
> Reed Richards is perhaps the greatest living genius of his time, proficient in almost all fields of science and technology, a visionary theoretician and inspired machine smith who has made breakthroughs in such varied fields as space travel, time travel, extra-dimensional travel, biochemistry, robotics, computers, synthetic polymers, communications, mutations, transportation, holography, energy generation, spectral analysis and more. He is also a natural leader and a gifted tactician and strategist.



Honestly.. I very much doubt that he can physically beat luffy... Even more doubtfully that he can do it in one punch... 

True reed has more stretching powers then luffy at the momment... But that can easly change in later chapters...IF luffy is a true rubberman then he should be able to flat out his body after a while.....

It took him how many chapaters to figure out the gears.... So who know what going on later...

Plus i think the main point of the whole physical powers.. Is that you don't need to be as strong as the hulk at this point.. Just stronger then reeds.. Which luffy prob is....


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## Dave (May 11, 2008)

Power16 said:


> I could definitely see Luffy reaching Namor level of strength feat because of strength feat like Garp cannonball and Saul launching Buster call ship but anything beyond that is wishful thinking.
> 
> Dave you seem to be in that mindset of Class 100 being the big dog (Hulk, Thor, Namor, etc) but you miss the whole definition of it which basically anyone who can lift in the 100 ton and beyond. Luffy is already in the 100 ton just not in comparison to higher ups Marvel league. Those big dog in Marvel are already in the 100,000 to millions and millions ton range.



Actually, I already knew that.


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## Heartgobbler (May 11, 2008)

Punching Crocodile through the ceiling of the Royal Crypts and metres of solid rock above is way beyond 100 tons strength. And he wasn't even geared then, just very pissed.


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## Power16 (May 11, 2008)

Dave said:


> Actually, I already knew that.



The way you seem to think when they mention Luffy as class 100 was saying otherwise but i see.


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## Dave (May 11, 2008)

Power16 said:


> The way you seem to think when they mention Luffy as class 100 was saying otherwise but i see.



Actually that was when they mentioned Luffy lifted the gold ball which weighed 300 tons, I didn't remember how much it was calculated as weighing.

So, again, I already knew that. 

Lol, I've been posting for years before you even got here, I'm well aware of the classes, I was the one correcting people on saying Class 100+, because Class 100 has no upper limit...


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## atom (May 11, 2008)

Xanxus said:


> he lifted a 300 ton gold ball and punched with it
> 
> that is plenty
> 
> and i already said he would never be near the big boys


Scans of it being said to be 300 tons?


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## Dave (May 11, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Scans of it being said to be 300 tons?



Never was, but it was calculated in the meta-dome, whether you accept that or not I don't know.  It doesn't really matter though, as Reed took shots from Namor and WWH.


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## zan (May 12, 2008)

ok but have reed ever beat them in a fight?? With out any prep time? or Plot devices?

With prep time yes i would say reeds win... He would prob find out about the sea stone and find that type of frequencies it work on and make some type of supper computer tec way to  beat luffy DF power..

But if it no prep time then yea luffy might have to go to gears with it...But he will be able to win.. 

Plus with what i read on marvel.com and other website reeds is not super human strong.....


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## Dave (May 12, 2008)

helpmenow316 said:


> ok but have reed ever beat them in a fight?? With out any prep time? or Plot devices?
> 
> With prep time yes i would say reeds win... He would prob find out about the sea stone and find that type of frequencies it work on and make some type of supper computer tec way to  beat luffy DF power..
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, how is Luffy beating someone he can't hurt?

And what you read on websites isn't considered comic knowledge.


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## zan (May 12, 2008)

Am pretty sure the people who run the marvel website have some knowledge about there company character they work for...

Not sure how he would beat him... but it wouldn't be a easy fight to call...

like i said how many times have reed beat hulk or any one els in that league with out using some type of tech or prep time.


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## Dave (May 12, 2008)

helpmenow316 said:


> Am pretty sure the people who run the marvel website have some knowledge about there company character they work for...
> 
> Not sure how he would beat him... but it wouldn't be a easy fight to call...
> 
> like i said how many times have reed beat hulk or any one els in that league with out using some type of tech or prep time.



Is that why Marvel Handbooks have been wrong?

Reed doesn't have the strength to beat Hulk, Luffy doesn't have the strength to beat Hulk.  The point being made was Reed has taken hits from people leagues stronger than Luffy and he wasn't knocked out.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 12, 2008)

Dave said:


> But anyone will not survive unharmed...seriously, you're not even making sense.
> 
> Am I going to have to show you all the people WWH hurt with punches?



That doesn't matter. My point is that *surviving* a punch from Hulk is meaningless because he does not kill. Yes the person might be hanging onto life by a thread _but that does not change the fact that after Hulk is finished with them, *they are still alive*_.



> And no that's not bad writing, Reed was angry with Namor, everyone knows the relationship those two have, and at the moment Namor was hitting on Susan.  Reed telling Namor he could never beat him is not bad writing.  Honestly, is this your attempt at trying to disprove these feats?



I will admit that my knowledge of Reed is largely based on his more recent incarnations (typically the past couple year or so). I guess I let my Namor-fanboyism get the better of me there since seeing Reed making Namor go 'ugghh'  sent bells ticking in my head


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## zan (May 12, 2008)

Dave said:


> Is that why Marvel Handbooks have been wrong?
> 
> Reed doesn't have the strength to beat Hulk, Luffy doesn't have the strength to beat Hulk.  The point being made was Reed has taken hits from people leagues stronger than Luffy and he wasn't knocked out.


Yea but if reeds was able to take a hit from hulk odds are luffy can too...Seeing that to what i read of WWH he never killed anyone..... 

Odds are once luffy goes in to gear 2 reed wouldn be able to keep up with him.


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## Dave (May 12, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> That doesn't matter. My point is that *surviving* a punch from Hulk is meaningless because he does not kill. Yes the person might be hanging onto life by a thread _but that does not change the fact that after Hulk is finished with them, *they are still alive*_.



Yea, the point is he took a direct hit from Hulk w/o even being hurt, which shows his durability.  I couldn't care less if Hulk doesn't kill, that doesn't automatically mean anyone can take hits from him and be unharmed.



helpmenow316 said:


> Yea but if reeds was able to take a hit from hulk odds are luffy can too...Seeing that to what i read of WWH he never killed anyone.....
> 
> Odds are once luffy goes in to gear 2 reed wouldn be able to keep up with him.



Do you even realize that what you said is pointless?  I don't care if Luffy can take hits from God himself, what does that have to do with Luffy will not be able to hurt Reed since he was not hurt by stronger people?

And btw, WWH would demolish Luffy.


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## Heartgobbler (May 12, 2008)

> The point being made was Reed has taken hits from people leagues stronger than Luffy and he wasn't knocked out.



Yup. But last time he had to fight a rubber man (his evil doppleganger in one of those major hassles about Infinity gaunlet) he lost.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (May 12, 2008)

That's a really bad comparison since it was Reed's evil dupe who knew everything about him while also having the same power set as he did and not some kid whose own rubber powers are inferior to Reed's.


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## Dave (May 12, 2008)

Heartgobbler said:


> Yup. But last time he had to fight a rubber man (his evil doppleganger in one of those major hassles about Infinity gaunlet) he lost.



Ignoring how old that is, he wasn't beaten by punches and kicks, so I don't see the relevance.


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## Burke (Jul 10, 2008)

well they are two types of rubber
luffy is a stretch and snap back
and reed is a strech and stay there


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 10, 2008)

Much as I like Luffy Reed is easily superior to him.


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## Banhammer (Jul 10, 2008)

Zombie Vs Ultimate Reed
Since zombie does have the exact same powerset as 616
You go and see what happens when he fights a rubberman.


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 10, 2008)

Reed's powers are far more versatile than Luffy's.
Reed doesn't need to breathe. Luffy does.
Reed can go in water. Luffy can't.


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## Pengu-Yasha (Jul 11, 2008)

I'll outline it for you... 

*Strength*
Luffy > Reed

*Smarts*
Reed >>>>> Luffy

*Speed*
About Equal

*Swimming*
Reed can, Luffy can't

So the score is Reed 2, Luffy 1. I vote Reed as the winner...


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## Axl Low (Jul 11, 2008)

Bloodlust...
Gear...
Luffy wins.
When Luffy fights for something [ie a 'personal/self' bloodlust] he does not lose.

However...
I love Luffy but I think Reed takes this.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Jul 11, 2008)

Did this really warrent being necro'd?


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 11, 2008)

> When Luffy fights for something he does not lose.



Crocodile beat him twice. The only reason Luffy won on their thir encounter was because he had a way to circumvent Corcodiles invulnerability.

Luffy has no way of getting around Reed's invulnerability.


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## BAD BD (Jul 11, 2008)

Reed taking hits from Namor changed my mind about this thread.


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## Onomatopoeia (Jul 11, 2008)

Namor>Luffy in literally every way.


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