# Tashigi vs Kaku



## Ceasar Drake (Dec 13, 2012)

For some reason people believe she is at CP9 level, which in my opinion is outrageous. 

Location: Punk Hazard


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## Coruscation (Dec 13, 2012)

I agree, she really ought to be above CP9 level. She would hand Kaku his ass.


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## Regster (Dec 13, 2012)

having Haki or not,i don't see she has enough Feats to match Kaku speed nor power
Kaku win


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## Ceasar Drake (Dec 13, 2012)

Yeah i go with kaku mid diff


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## MrPrince (Dec 13, 2012)

Tashigi...when will they give you an opponent I can fight in your favor for...

Anyways, I think this topic is the best opportunity to give a much better picture on where she stands, Kaku is the perfect opponent to do it with. And as per usual if you're going to make a rebuttal I expect manga panels/facts. Btw it's alot, I doubt many will fully read, but here it goes...

The number 1 problem I think going on here is that people think Time-skip=power inflation. While this is true in the sense that all the characters to have shown potential for growth in part 1 have definitely improved in part 2, the thing people seem to forget is that this does not mean a post-skip character is automatically > than a preskip. The implementing of haki has got alot of people thinking this, but to get to my point...Oda is not the kind of writer who fucks up the balance of power with timeskips. He doesn't need to, because the balance of power is the same in Part 2 as in Part 1. The top tiers stayed where they're at, and everything is still in place. An exact opposite of this is DBZ where the next arc everyone's power levels make the previous arc villain cry, including characters like Krillen. Oda avoids this by sticking to a power scale that hasn't wavered throughout the series. A feat impressive in part 1 is still impressive in part 2 and thus characters feats from part 1 are still relevant, even though they don't involve haki. So acting like Tashigi is some sort of god compared to part 1 characters just because she has haki just doesn't hold up to the standards Oda worked so hard on and kept dedicated to still to this day. Especially if she doesn't have the feats to prove it. The Part-2 God armour that people are giving her is sickening.

So far her greatest speed feat is this: 

And her greatest attack is Cutting Drizzle:


The best hit she taken, which is pretty impressive as it shows she has some tolerance to pain: 

But an attack with some power will leave her on the floor:


Tashigi is a Captain. The same rank Smoker was in Alabasta, keep this in mind. From what she's shown, she's nothing compared to CP9, and honestly it makes perfect damn sense. Stand alone for Oda to shift the power of a Marine captain to that of the CP9 would be ridiculous. These were guys who , and . They were the strongest CP division in Marine history. Tashigi by manga feats is NOT on their level. She hasn't shown ANYTHING to suggest it. 

Tashigi has not shown the ability to:
-Use Tekkai
-Use Shigan
-Use Soru while attacking
-Use Geppo
-Use Rankyaku
-Use Kami-e
-Cut steel
-Use Air slashes, something part 1 Kaku was doing flawlessly and other characters like Ryuuma and Lucci were capable of doing with devastating results.

Tashigi cannot replicate a feat like this (the tower)...


...As she does not have the power of skill to do so. And when it comes to speed once again the time-skip does not mean all postskip characters will blitz preskip characters, and Tashigi has shown nothing impressive in that region.

So in all, Kaku takes this with Mid difficulty. He has superior swordsmanship and destructive power. Speed shouldn't be a factor as Tashigi should be worrying about how she's gonna defend...






 Unless people honestly believe her power is now on Enies Lobby Asura level and she can turn Kaku's attacks into mist...

Now isn't that just one big sick twisted joke.


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## Coruscation (Dec 13, 2012)

> But an attack with some power will leave her on the floor:



"Some power", huh? You might have mentioned that it was a pissed off Haki-reinforced punch to the face from a guy with higher physical power output than Smoker. But of course, that would actually emphasize how Tashigi is really tough and determined, since she was up and fighting and took down Monet only minutes later. And obviously giving a fair and balanced picture of Tashigi's prowess wasn't at all what you were going for.



> Stand alone for Oda to shift the power of a Marine captain to that of the CP9 would be ridiculous. These were guys who split towers, and destroyed battleships with air slashes.



Those were the absolute strongest attack of Kaku (requiring wind-up and wind-down time) and one of the absolute strongest attacks of Lucci. You might have mentioned that, too, in the interest of fairness. Fukoru and Kumadori did nothing remotely in that ballpark.

As for the power of Marine Captains? There was one in the very same arc as CP9. His name was T-Bone. He was famous for cutting ships like a knife through hot butter. But by all means, go on and pretend as if Marine ranks correlates absolutely to strength and that we've never heard of people having strength far above the average of their rank.



> The Part-2 God armour that people are giving her is sickening.



I could say the same about how much you underrate Smoker's right hand woman, who's been in the New World for two years and learned to use Haki in that time, a feat which we know from Rayleigh is significantly impressive.

Part 2 > part 1 is in fact very valid reasoning in many cases. Do you have any _actual argument_ whatsoever for why Tashigi should be a pathetic weakling who would get stomped on by a pre-skip Supernova? By argument I don't mean "she can't use (list of random abilities)" because that isn't one. It's a non sequitur. I mean something concrete that actually compares her power, skill, speed etc. to other people. What we do know is that Smoker relies on her to be his right hand woman in the NW and that she was talented enough to learn Haki in two years from scratch. Haki which in itself is a significant power-up to any fighter. If she is to be even remotely worthy of her position at this point, she shouldn't be so weak that she is borderline fodder to pre-skip Zoro. Do you even realize how pathetic that would make her in the New World? Why shouldn't she be a respectable fighter considering her position, determination and experience?


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## MrPrince (Dec 13, 2012)

Coruscation said:


> "Some power", huh? You might have mentioned that it was a pissed off Haki-reinforced punch to the face from a guy with higher physical power output than Smoker. But of course, that would actually emphasize how Tashigi is really tough and determined, since she was up and fighting and took down Monet only minutes later. And obviously giving a fair and balanced picture of Tashigi's prowess wasn't at all what you were going for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Um...ok not even sure where to begin here...

1: The punch I posted of Vergo knocking her out should be able to bust through steel right? Kaku's attack which slashed the tower was posted not only for manga proof that he has an attack to take her attack, but also as a comparison to Tashigi's strongest attack, which is very miniscule compared to it.

2:Wasn't going for fair and balanced? I posted everything she got!! You wanna pull out the manga panels where she's made to look like a much better sport? Cause I certainly couldn't find them in my ass.

3: Has she actually shown anything NW worthy yet? No. Not at all. She got pwned by EVERYTHING the NW has thrown at her so far. Everything.

4: No she is not pathetic, she is at the level she should be. But people who are hyping her up aren't doing her any favors.

5: I listed all the things she couldn't do because those are things in her particular expertise and fighting style that Kaku trumphs her in and has shown to do better than her. They weren't just "random abilities"...I thought you would have picked up on that, really irked me reading that. If her opponent is better than her at EVERYTHING she can do, how the heck do you expect her to win the fight?

Manga panels Corus, it's all in there. I posted everything she was worthy of. You have no argument for her in this discussion that can be backed up with Manga panels. Tashigi loses. 

Btw your original post claims Tashigi "hands kaku his ass". How can you even justify that?

EDIT:


Coruscation said:


> *Those were the absolute strongest attack of Kaku (requiring wind-up and wind-down time) and one of the absolute strongest attacks of Lucci.* You might have mentioned that, too, in the interest of fairness. Fukoru and Kumadori did nothing remotely in that ballpark.
> 
> As for the power of Marine Captains? There was one in the very same arc as CP9. His name was T-Bone. He was famous for cutting ships like a knife through hot butter. But by all means, go on and pretend as if Marine ranks correlates absolutely to strength and that we've never heard of people having strength far above the average of their rank.



I find this really funny that you edited this in. You previously claim that I left nothing to compare to, something we can compare her power and skill to...How bout just comparing her greatest feat and the same one i bolded in your post. And for laughs show me the panel of Tashigi slicing through a ship like a knife through hot butter. Cause I already provided for Kaku and the burden is on you.


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## Coruscation (Dec 13, 2012)

> The punch I posted of Vergo knocking her out should be able to bust through steel right? Kaku's attack which slashed the tower was posted not only for manga proof that he has an attack to take her attack, but also as a comparison to Tashigi's strongest attack, which is very miniscule compared to it.



Vergo can bust through a hell of a lot more than steel with his Haki punches and I'm sure you're well aware of that. He'd crumble a Pacifista in a single blow. I don't _personally_ think he used that much power - but in your words, "manga panels".

How are you going to prove that Tashigi's best attack is minuscule compared to his? Let's hear it, right now. Don't bring up collateral damage. Because Ashura, that shat on Kaku's strongest attack, did NO collateral damage. This will probably shock you, but a swordsman's best attacks are often precise, concentrated cuts. To be able to perform such attacks without causing things to explode left and right is an impressive quality.



> Has she actually shown anything NW worthy yet? No. Not at all. She got pwned by EVERYTHING the NW has thrown at her so far.



This is what I mean by that you aren't going for fair and balanced. You're trying to downplay her. You exclaim in caps that everything in the NW has pwned her. But you neglect to specify what this "everything" is. It just so happens to be: a Shichibukai; a Marine Vice Admiral; a Logia who casually fodderized Franky and Robin at the same time; and another Logia who stopped a Hardened Jet Gatling from post-timeskip G2 Luffy.

That says absolutely NOTHING of whether she is up to the task of taking someone considerably weaker than pre-timeskip Zoro. 



> No she is not pathetic, she is at the level she should be



Smoker's NW right hand woman should be at a level fodder to preskip Zoro? You really, really think that makes sense?



> I listed all the things she couldn't do because those are things in her particular expertise and fighting style that Kaku trumphs her in and has shown to do better than her.



No they aren't. Tashigi is a sword user. Kaku specializes in Rokushiki. It doesn't mean a damn thing that he can use Tekkai, Geppou, Shigan or Rankyaku while she can't. Can Zoro use any of those abilities? Nope. It means _nothing_. So it's completely intellectually dishonest on your part to start lining them up to make a big list which you can point at saying "look, Kaku is better than her". Of course, you ignore things that she has shown that Kaku hasn't. Such as:

- the ability to take a Haki-reinforced punch to the face by Vergo;
- the ability to use COA Haki;
- the ability to take out down someone who stopped Hardened Jet Gatling in a single slash.

MANGA PANELS, man. Tashigi has showed all of the above. But you completely downplayed it to make her look bad.


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## EndlessStrategy (Dec 13, 2012)

I think Tashigi should win handily. We haven't seen very much from her yet, but Corus said it well enough. I personally think she's on par with the pre-skip Supernovas.


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## MrPrince (Dec 13, 2012)

Coruscation said:


> Vergo can bust through a hell of a lot more than steel with his Haki punches and I'm sure you're well aware of that. He'd crumble a Pacifista in a single blow. I don't _personally_ think he used that much power - but in your words, "manga panels".



Ok, But do you seriously think she can tank Amane Dachi?



> How are you going to prove that Tashigi's best attack is minuscule compared to his? Let's hear it, right now. Don't bring up collateral damage. Because Ashura, that shat on Kaku's strongest attack, did NO collateral damage. *This will probably shock you, but a swordsman's best attacks are often precise, concentrated cuts.* To be able to perform such attacks without causing things to explode left and right is an impressive quality.



Okay, but do you seriously think cutting drizzle is more impressive than Amane Dachi?

As for the bolded, since we're sharing surprises, most notable swordsman in OP can atleast perform an air slash. That is all.



> This is what I mean by that you aren't going for fair and balanced. You're trying to downplay her. You exclaim in caps that everything in the NW has pwned her. But you neglect to specify what this "everything" is. It just so happens to be: a Shichibukai; a Marine Vice Admiral; a Logia who casually fodderized Franky and Robin at the same time; and another Logia who stopped a Hardened Jet Gatling from post-timeskip G2 Luffy.



They all still completely pulverized her. The only useful thing she's done was redirect a cannon ball. She herself has shown nothing NW worthy. Monet was a perfect opponent for us to see how she deals with a notable NW lvl fighter and she lost.



> That says absolutely NOTHING of whether she is up to the task of taking someone considerably weaker than pre-timeskip Zoro.
> 
> 
> Smoker's NW right hand woman should be at a level fodder to preskip Zoro? You really, really think that makes sense?



You're really hyping up Smoker's right hand. She's a captain. Same field as Hina, T-bone, Shu, etc. Oda made her a captain for a reason. And not only that but you and I know well that Smoker's unit have only been dealing with trash fodder pirates, and that Smoker is to take most of the credit.




> No they aren't. Tashigi is a sword user. Kaku specializes in Rokushiki. It doesn't mean a damn thing that he can use Tekkai, Geppou, Shigan or Rankyaku while she can't. Can Zoro use any of those abilities? Nope. It means _nothing_. So it's completely intellectually dishonest on your part to start lining them up to make a big list which you can point at saying "look, Kaku is better than her". Of course, you ignore things that she has shown that Kaku hasn't.



Ok, how again is she going to take out Kaku again? Cutting Drizzle?



> Such as:
> 
> *- the ability to take a Haki-reinforced punch to the face by Vergo;*
> - the ability to use COA Haki;
> ...



.................you and I both know the exaggeration going on there. Vergo left her unable to speak. And Monet was not only on the verge of losing her mind when she was attacked, but Tashigi attacked from behind, and was claimed by Zoro to be unnecessary. Also learning the most basic form of CoA does not make you CP9 level.

Since it's getting a little sloppey I thought I'd sum up both our argument:

Kaku wins because:
-Greater feat, tower split in half
-Greater sword Mastery and superior sword techs
-Much broader arsenal, in which Tashigi is severely lacking
-Has shown to be atleast at the level of cutting steel, as well as receiving multiple steel cutting attacks.

Tashigi wins because:
-Please fill this out for me, cause I have no idea why and I'm not even slightly convinced.

Listen man, I get that we haven't seen "everything" from Tashigi, but from what she's shown it just isn't enough to take out Kaku. Until then she doesn't have enough evidence to support her.


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## Coruscation (Dec 13, 2012)

> But do you seriously think she can tank Amane Dachi?



Maybe. But she doesn't have to tank it to be able to beat Kaku.



> Okay, but do you seriously think cutting drizzle is more impressive than Amane Dachi?



I don't think you can make a judgement on which is more impressive. However, Cutting Drizzle took out a high tier. That's more than I can say for Amenadachi, which is not the same as saying that Amenadachi couldn't possibly have done the same.



> They all still completely pulverized her.



And they would *pulverize Kaku just as badly*. Or Lucci, for that matter. Can't you see my point here? Tashigi was taking on people she had no business taking on. Well established New World high tiers. Kaku is FAR weaker than any of those people. Tashigi losing badly to them doesn't in any.way.whatsoever. imply that she couldn't take Kaku.



> You're really hyping up Smoker's right hand. She's a captain.



So what? I've been trying to tell you that rank isn't synonymous with strength. Being the right hand woman of someone almost as strong as current Luffy means a hell of a lot more than what her rank is.



> Ok, how again is she going to take out Kaku again? Cutting Drizzle?



The attack that took out someone way above Kaku? Yeah, why not.



> you and I both know the exaggeration going on there.



No shit. I was just playing your game of "manga panels" and trying to get it through to you how bad your argument has been. *You can't just take everything at face value.* We have to use not just "manga panels" but also logical reasoning and powerscaling. You're not only neglecting to do that which is grossly unfair to Tashigi, but when I bring manga panels of my own _then_ you suddenly start arguing that we have to use logical reasoning and context.


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## MrPrince (Dec 13, 2012)

Coruscation said:


> Maybe. But she doesn't have to tank it to be able to beat Kaku.



What does she have that can counter it?





> I don't think you can make a judgement on which is more impressive. However, Cutting Drizzle took out a high tier. That's more than I can say for Amenadachi, which is not the same as saying that Amenadachi couldn't possibly have done the same.



The method of which she took out the high tier is not as impressive as your making it out to be.



> And they would *pulverize Kaku just as badly*. Or Lucci, for that matter. Can't you see my point here? Tashigi was taking on people she had no business taking on. Well established New World high tiers. Kaku is FAR weaker than any of those people. Tashigi losing badly to them doesn't in any.way.whatsoever. imply that she couldn't take Kaku.



She still hasn't shown anything to imply she can. Whatsoever.




> So what? I've been trying to tell you that rank isn't synonymous with strength. Being the right hand woman of someone almost as strong as current Luffy means a hell of a lot more than what her rank is.



Yes but Tashigi hasn't shown to be the "above average" captain you make her out to be, nor have you proved that she is.





> The attack that took out someone way above Kaku? Yeah, why not.



Because Kaku can defend against it. It's not blitzing Kaku that's for sure.





> No shit. I was just playing your game of "manga panels" and trying to get it through to you how bad your argument has been. *You can't just take everything at face value.* We have to use not just "manga panels" but also logical reasoning and powerscaling. You're not only neglecting to do that which is grossly unfair to Tashigi, *but when I bring manga panels of my own then you suddenly start arguing that we have to use logical reasoning and context*.



What exactly was bad about my argument? Especially compared to yours. You initially stated that she should be above CP9 and wipe the floor with Kaku without backing it up or even suggesting how, and most of your argument is based on the hype that she's Smoker's right hand. Without the proper feats you can't say any more than what she has shown. Besides the fact that she fought opponents out of her league, she showed how sloppy and reckless her fighting was, such as charging head first against Law, or not paying attention vs Monet. Powerscaling does not show she's CP9 lvl just because you say it does. You understand that you're arguing that Tashigi, going from a marine Ensign to CP9 level in two years, makes sense because she's Smoker's right hand...I just can't comprehend that and you probably won't convince me.

But when did I do as such in the bolded?

I'm clocking out for awhile I'll check back in later on.


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## Impact (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm going with Mr. Prince here tashigi is not taking out kaku. If I had to place a marine rank to the CP9 strongest 3 agents they definitely wouldn't be captain rank I'll say about mid high Commodore -Rear admiral at best.

Oda has her at captain rank because that's how strong she is despite having haki.

Kaku takes this with mid diff as much as I like tashigi she just hasn't reached that level yet.


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## blueframe01 (Dec 13, 2012)

Tashigi wins this. She's probably around the mid trio level of strength. I don't see anyone of them having trouble beating Kaku.


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## Lord Stark (Dec 13, 2012)

People seem to forget that Haki does not=top tier.   The Amazon warriors had Haki but I still see them going down to Kaku.


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## Doma (Dec 13, 2012)

Coruscation said:


> I agree, she really ought to be above CP9 level. She would hand Kaku his ass.



This. You guys either drastically underestimate Tashigi or drastically underestimate the growth everyone had over the time-skip. 

The M3 went from barely being able to break/cut steel with their strongest attaks to effortlessly destroying things much, much stronger than steel. It shouldn't be unfathomable that with similar growth, Tashigi can wipe the floor with Kaku.


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## Lmao (Dec 13, 2012)

Tashigi is not moping the floor with anyone and neither is Kaku. Haki is an incredible advantage but not always a decisive one, Luffy vs Amazon Sisters is a good example. 

I'd give Tashigi the benefit of doubt until she fights someone that's not completely out of her league to prove herself, till then Kaku takes it via better feats.


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## Heretic (Dec 13, 2012)

I'd put Tashigi above Usopp and Nami at least, and I put both of them above Kaku. So...


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## Sanji (Dec 13, 2012)

Didn't we put Tashigi a little bit under Brook? 

If so she takes it handily.


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## Regster (Dec 13, 2012)

this is ridiculous,without Zoro help she supposed to has lose her shoulder now
and some people believe she's right now able to beat down Kaku?


if put scenario:Kaku vs Tashigi,whether she with haki or not
Kaku already will overspeed Tashigi and defeat her to point she ask mercy


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## blueframe01 (Dec 13, 2012)

Regster said:


> this is ridiculous,without Zoro help she supposed to has lose her shoulder now
> and some people believe she's right now able to beat down Kaku?



Put Kaku against Monet and she would have bitten his head off. So whats your point again?



> if put scenario:Kaku vs Tashigi,whether she with haki or not
> Kaku already will overspeed Tashigi and defeat her to point she ask mercy



Thats cute..


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## Typhon (Dec 13, 2012)

MrPrince said:


> The number 1 problem I think going on here is that people think Time-skip=power inflation. While this is true in the sense that all the characters to have shown potential for growth in part 1 have definitely improved in part 2, the thing people seem to forget is that this does not mean a post-skip character is automatically > than a preskip.



Even Kizaru has gotten stronger over the two year time skip. It was not just every person who showed potential to grow.


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## Regster (Dec 14, 2012)

blueframe01 said:


> Put Kaku against Monet and she would have bitten his head off. So whats your point again?
> 
> 
> 
> Thats cute..



you're right
different case tho if Kaku has Haki he can spam rankyaku to cut Monet into two piece
although she is Joker subordinates,CC secretary and one of many foes to fought in new world i won't  hesitate to say Monet just par with Califa from CP 9,perhaps less or more than her
she really not too strong


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## Haruhifan21 (Dec 14, 2012)

Regster said:


> you're right
> different case tho if Kaku has Haki he can spam rankyaku to cut Monet into two piece
> although she is Joker subordinates,CC secretary and one of many foes to fought in new world i won't  hesitate to say Monet just par with Califa from CP 9,perhaps less or more than her
> she really not too strong



Awesome. You think similarly to me, but I was thinking a little bit stronger. Maybe around Douriki of 900 or so (a bit better than Blueno, and that's giving Monet _a lot_ of benefit of doubt from me). Definitely more than enough to stomp the likes of Tashigi.


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## blueframe01 (Dec 14, 2012)

Dude Kalifa wouldn't have reacted to current Luffy's G2 the same way Monet Has.

I do agree with you on the way she looks weak despite having haki. Heck I wouldn't put her above the Mid trio or chopper eventhough they lack haki. But having said that I just can't see a rival of Zoro from way back in the middle of the first half of the series beating her or any of the SH.


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## tupadre97 (Dec 14, 2012)

Tashigi should be able to beat base Kaku. Idk about his zoan form tho. She doesnt have enough feats to be able to be that form of him.


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## zorokuma (Dec 14, 2012)

the absense of feats does not equal the presence of evidence.

just saying, just because we have not seen tashigi attempt to destroy buildings etc like Kaku did doesnt mean she cant.  So saying she cant because we dont have feats on it is not enough. just saying.


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## MakeEmum (Dec 14, 2012)

Regster said:


> you're right
> different case tho if Kaku has Haki he can spam rankyaku to cut Monet into two piece
> although she is Joker subordinates,CC secretary and one of many foes to fought in new world i won't  hesitate to say Monet just par with Califa from CP 9,perhaps less or more than her
> she really not too strong



No amount of Haki would prevent Kaku from getting stomped by Monet, Kaku doesn't have an attack anywhere near the level of Zoro's Great Dragon Movement and doesn't have anywhere near the speed or is nearly intimidating enough to put dat fear into her that Zoro did



rainyrabbit said:


> Awesome. You think similarly to me, but I was thinking a little bit stronger. Maybe around* Douriki of 900* or so (a bit better than Blueno, and that's giving Monet _a lot_ of benefit of doubt from me). Definitely more than enough to stomp the likes of Tashigi.



Pre-time skip EL Franky probably had had better douriki :faceplam, if anyone read the Monet battle then anyone would see that Tagashi is obivously Mid-tier SH level which is well above then likes of Kaku


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## Lawliet (Dec 14, 2012)

Tashigi wins this lol
there is no way in hell pre skip  Kaku is winning against post skip Tashigi.


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## Kanki (Dec 14, 2012)

The thought of Tashigi losing to someone who was defeated at mid-diff by Ennies Lobby Zoro is laughable, to be honest.


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## Kaiser (Dec 14, 2012)

Haki is useless if you can't keep up, said by Monet who doesn't even use Soru. Sure Tashigi can use it, but this technique has levels and i don't believe her level of Soru is on the same level as Kaku. She seems not to be that proficient with the technique and only uses it in defensiv situations. 

Kaku in the contrary can use it continuously during the battle. On the other hand, she has shown no mastery over tekkai. So Kaku also has a greater defense than her. Finally Kaku is a greater swordman than her(the best in CP9 like he said himself), and even has a Zoan type to increase his power further(cuting a tower with his rankyaku). His overall level is still clearly above all what Tashigi has displayed so far.


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## Speedy Jag. (Dec 14, 2012)

Kakashi Is God said:


> The thought of Tashigi losing to someone who was defeated at mid-diff by Ennies Lobby Zoro is laughable, to be honest.



Pretty much. She should be EL Zoro level at this stage and beating Kaku as well, maybe slightly higher difficulty tho.

Her haki and NW experience should be giving her the edge.


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## Ceasar Drake (Dec 14, 2012)

Zoro wouldn't of defeated kaku without Asura. Tashagi cheapshotted monet. She's not hurting Zoan Kaku. Do you really see Tashigi blocking a rankyku with her sword?


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## Regster (Dec 14, 2012)

MakeEmum said:


> No amount of Haki would prevent Kaku from getting stomped by Monet, Kaku doesn't have an attack anywhere near the level of Zoro's Great Dragon Movement and doesn't have anywhere near the speed or is nearly intimidating enough to put dat fear into her that Zoro did


your post is fail,Kaku has all chance to hit Monet really


MakeEmum said:


> Pre-time skip EL Franky probably had had better douriki :faceplam, if anyone read the Monet battle then anyone would see that Tagashi is obivously Mid-tier SH level which is well above then likes of Kaku


Tashigi clearly almost owned by weak Monet that what i see


oOLawlietOo said:


> Tashigi wins this lol
> *there is no way in hell pre skip  Kaku is winning against post skip Tashigi.*


can you provide me proof why she able do that?
don't tell me because this post skip>>>pre skip logic



Kakashi Is God said:


> The thought of Tashigi losing to someone who was defeated at mid-diff by Ennies Lobby Zoro is laughable, to be honest.





Blake said:


> Haki is useless if you can't keep up, said by Monet who doesn't even use Soru. Sure Tashigi can use it, but this technique has levels and i don't believe her level of Soru is on the same level as Kaku. She seems not to be that proficient with the technique and only uses it in defensiv situations.
> 
> Kaku in the contrary can use it continuously during the battle. On the other hand, she has shown no mastery over tekkai. So Kaku also has a greater defense than her. Finally Kaku is a greater swordman than her(the best in CP9 like he said himself), and even has a Zoan type to increase his power further(cuting a tower with his rankyaku). His overall level is still clearly above all what Tashigi has displayed so far.



^this
that pretty much explained why Tashigi supposed lose to Kaku
Kaku has better feats than Tashigi in all term
do you people truly think Zoro Enies Lobby so weak.Monet more weak than that her strenght not truly ridiculous.
she just a spy,her capability pretty much oriented mostly to hold off enemy


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## Canute87 (Dec 14, 2012)

There's something much simpler to go by. Middle trio can hand kaku his ass. Tashigi should be able to do the same.

Simple.


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## zenieth (Dec 14, 2012)

Regster said:


> your post is fail,Kaku has all chance to hit Monet really



You mean monet who's managed to intercept g2 and get away from zoro, twice.

yeah... no



> Tashigi clearly almost owned by weak Monet that what i see



Monet would have stomped Kaku just as hard, just as weak as she is. Her weak is a lot above kaku's strong.





> do you people truly think Zoro Enies Lobby so weak.Monet more weak than that her strenght not truly ridiculous.
> she just a spy,her capability pretty much oriented mostly to hold off enemy



Monet, weaker than EL Zoro? LOL


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## Shinryu (Dec 15, 2012)

Tashigi stomps since she has CoA and is faster than Kaku


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## Urouge (Dec 15, 2012)

Tashigi wins this. She's not that weak


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## Haruhifan21 (Dec 15, 2012)

Canute87 said:


> There's something much simpler to go by. Middle trio can hand kaku his ass. Tashigi should be able to do the same.
> 
> Simple.



Tashigi being anywhere close to the Middle Trio?


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## BlueDemon (Dec 15, 2012)

rainyrabbit said:


> Tashigi being anywhere close to the Middle Trio?



How good do you think the Middle Trio would have fared against Vergo, Law & Monet?
Think about that again, that might answer your question.

Tashigi as she is now losing to pre-skip Kaku would be ridiculous, she?s been in the New World for 2 years, ffs...


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## Canute87 (Dec 15, 2012)

rainyrabbit said:


> Tashigi being anywhere close to the Middle Trio?



Is this debatable?


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## Soca (Dec 15, 2012)

You know I don't like tashigi as much as the next guy but the underestimation is kind of..worrying..


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## Canute87 (Dec 15, 2012)

I didn't think it was this bad.


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## Kaneda30 (Dec 15, 2012)

I think Zoan Kaku wins, albeit with hard diff. I need more feats from Tashigi before I can say she could beat a top CP9 agent.

I read an argument that Tashigi is better than the Middle Trio because the Middle Trio wouldn't have fared good against the likes of Monet, Vergo and Law. Of course they wouldn't! Uhm... and that is relevant because? Tashigi was shit compared to these antagonists as well. Her haki was weak and she only backstabbed an already shook Monet. That's it.

She has basic haki, moderate swordsmanship and some experience in the NW. I would put her somewhere above the Gorgon sisters.


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## BlueDemon (Dec 15, 2012)

Kaneda30 said:


> I think Zoan Kaku wins, albeit with hard diff. I need more feats from Tashigi before I can say she could beat a top CP9 agent.
> 
> I read an argument that Tashigi is better than the Middle Trio because the Middle Trio wouldn't have fared good against the likes of Monet, Vergo and Law. Of course they wouldn't! Uhm... and that is relevant because? Tashigi was shit compared to these antagonists as well. Her haki was weak and she only backstabbed an already shook Monet. That's it.
> 
> She has basic haki, moderate swordsmanship and some experience in the NW. I would put her somewhere above the Gorgon sisters.



The guy asked if she was anywhere close to the Middle Trio and I told him to think how they would fare in her place, implying that they are at least on the same level (dunno if she could take Monster Chopper & Franky...but then again, I?m not really a BD expert ).

Of course the gap was too big and they?d all get fodderized, but you simply cannot underestimate her that much. The middle trio doesn?t have Haki at all and what do you mean about "some experience in the New World"? She?s Smoker?s right hand, ffs, that?s one crazy MOFO. Do you think she?d only get "some experience" going along with him?

I know Tashigi didn?t really make a good impression and I personally really don?t care thaaat much about her, but you people have to try to at least think somewhat logical.


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## Kaneda30 (Dec 15, 2012)

BlueDemon said:


> Of course the gap was too big and they?d all get fodderized, but you simply cannot underestimate her that much. The middle trio doesn?t have Haki at all and what do you mean about "some experience in the New World"? She?s Smoker?s right hand, ffs, that?s one crazy MOFO. Do you think she?d only get "some experience" going along with him?



You know who else has haki? The Kuja warriors. Are they also above the current Middle Trio? Haki is important, but simply having a very basic knowledge does not make you a great fighter. And it has been highlighted two times (by Smoker and Monet) that Tashigi has very limited haki. I don't think I'm underestimating her at all. She is way above a normal Marine Captain, and I even admitted that a fight with Kaku could go either way, although I see the CP9 agent as a favorite.

About experience. I stand by what I said. 2 years is good, but it's not fantastic. On an somewhat unrelated note: WB had thousand of pirates at MF that probably spent decades in the NW on his ships, but were still fodder compared to even preskip Luffy.


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## Regster (Dec 16, 2012)

zenieth said:


> You mean monet who's managed to intercept g2 and get away from zoro, twice.
> 
> yeah... no
> 
> ...



oh my....."facepalm"
kay,let's follow your logic
by saying all that statement are this Monet also can stomp Lucci?


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## Shinryu (Dec 16, 2012)

to be honest one attack from Monet would kill Kaku to begin with


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## Luis209 (Dec 16, 2012)

In power scalling Kaku is superior to me, but I think Tashigi will win. If she has the Kenboshoku haki it would help her very much against the speed of Kaku and with haki i think she would be able to break Tekkai. It would be a very complicated match to her as I see her weaker than Zoro pre-time skip.

Zoro (pre time skip) > Tashigi (post time skip) > Kaku


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## Shinryu (Dec 16, 2012)

Luis209 said:


> In power scalling Kaku is superior to me, but I think Tashigi will win. If she has the Kenboshoku haki it would help her very much against the speed of Kaku and with haki i think she would be able to break Tekkai. It would be a very complicated match to her as I see her weaker than Zoro pre-time skip.
> 
> Zoro (pre time skip) > Tashigi (post time skip) > Kaku



wasnt postskip tashigi above current brook


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## Luis209 (Dec 16, 2012)

For me, no. Current Brook is on the same level of pre skip Zoro or maybe slighly weaker to me. Tashigi doesn't show anything that puts her above that level.


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## Shinryu (Dec 16, 2012)

Luis209 said:


> For me, no. Current Brook is on the same level of pre skip Zoro or maybe slighly weaker to me. Tashigi doesn't show anything that puts her above that level.





brooks shadow was a match for preskip zoro so current brook is above preskip zoro



where do you get this logic


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## Luis209 (Dec 16, 2012)

Brook can't even cut the cage on fishman island.

Do you believe that he has the same destrutive power of Zoro pre skip? Zoro didn't even use asura against Ryuuma...

Zoro (pre skip) ~ Brook (post time skip) > Ryuuma


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## Soca (Dec 16, 2012)

Luis209 said:


> Brook can't even cut the cage on fishman island.



and yet in the same light zoro couldn't even bust out of the chains that were cuffed to him, not to mention none of them had their weapons on person.. try again. 



> Do you believe that he has the same destrutive power of Zoro pre skip? Zoro didn't even use asura against Ryuuma...Zoro (pre skip) ~ Brook (post time skip) > Ryuuma



Destructive power may be slightly lower from what we've been shown so far but you seriously underestaimate the speed and endurace brook has on pre-skip zoro and we've only had minimal viewing of how much he and the shs have improve as a whole as well.


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## Luis209 (Dec 16, 2012)

> and yet in the same light zoro couldn't even bust out of the chains that were cuffed to him, not to mention none of them had their weapons on person.. try again.


The one who shoud try again is you. Zoro not bust out the chains? When he gets his swords, he cut the chains and the cage. Why Brook was search for Zoro's swords and not his sword? Brook knew that he couldn't cut it. 

And again in Punk hazzard Zoro asks to Kinemon if he could cut the door of iron, so he knew that Brook wasn't able to cut it.


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## Haruhifan21 (Dec 16, 2012)

Canute87 said:


> Is this debatable?



O.O



ChaosX7 said:


> wasnt postskip tashigi above current brook



.......


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## Soca (Dec 16, 2012)

Luis209 said:


> The one who shoud try again is you. Zoro not bust out the chains? When he gets his swords, he cut the chains and the cage. Why Brook was search for Zoro's swords and not his sword? Brook knew that he couldn't cut it.



Way to ignore the point there



> And again in Punk hazzard Zoro asks to Kinemon if he could cut the door of iron, so he knew that Brook wasn't able to cut it.



You're assuming a whole lot right now, can't take you seriously.


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## Canute87 (Dec 16, 2012)

Luis209 said:


> The one who shoud try again is you. Zoro not bust out the chains? When he gets his swords, he cut the chains and the cage. Why Brook was search for Zoro's swords and not his sword? Brook knew that he couldn't cut it.
> 
> *And again in Punk hazzard Zoro asks to Kinemon if he could cut the door of iron, so he knew that Brook wasn't able to cut it*.



Brooke wasn't in a position to cut the door. besides you saw both Kinemon and brooke cut through the dragon which has been claimed to be harder than steel. 

So I think you're just playing around.


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## Luis209 (Dec 16, 2012)

You don't read what I say before that?

Moreover, the little Dragon that Kinemon and Brook cut isn't harder than steel. You must been confusing that dragon with the dragon that Zoro cut.


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## zenieth (Dec 16, 2012)

Regster said:


> oh my....."facepalm"
> kay,let's follow your logic
> by saying all that statement are this Monet also can stomp Lucci?



Yup.

Steamroll him.

And still be fodder by Post M3 levels.

That's how fodder Cp9 is now.


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## Shinryu (Dec 17, 2012)

rainyrabbit said:


> .......



is my post stupid or something


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## Ceasar Drake (Dec 17, 2012)

Current brook beats tashigi quite easily..


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## ciigan (Dec 17, 2012)

Using logic Tachigi should be stronger Kaku. She is a captain, that has spend two years in New Word. She knows basics of haki. I do not know how good she in the swordsmanship, but a can assume that she is not that bad. Also (the main reason) if she (we) wants (want her) to keep up with Zoro, she should be able to beat all his opponents pre-time skip. 
However two years ago Kaku would have killed her in a second. I don't care what she learned during this 2 years, where she has been or with who she trained, she won't beat him less than extreme difficulty. Reason for that is lack of feats, because she keeps on fighting people that are on a completely different level. Pre-time skip it was Zoro and Robin, post-time skip it's Low, Caesar, Vergo and Monet. I actually can't remember her having a descent fight, where she wasn't completely overpowered by her opponent. Lack of feats and abnormal jump in strength, which she would have to make in order to defeat him (as many here believe) with ease, are the main reasons why she is not winning this fight, less than extreme difficulty.
Also i don't see her being on the same level as Robin, Franky or Brook. Pre-time skip she was grouped up with Usopp, Nami and Chopper and that didn't change. Moreover why would it change, if she is now stronger then them, it would mean that she is somehow "better". I don't think she is "better" and she hasn't shown anything that would put mid trio in danger anyway, that's why i'm a bit confused with the fact that people put her on the same level as them. 
I'm not underestimating her, being on the same level of strength as "weakling trio" means a lot. This trio will have a lot of fights in the new world with underlings of a shichibukai and a Younku as well as with other powerful pirates. They are not that weak, they are simply the weakest members of a powerful team, that consist of only nine people.


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## Admiral Kuzan (Dec 20, 2012)

ChaosX7 said:


> brooks shadow was a match for preskip zoro so current brook is above preskip zoro
> 
> 
> 
> where do you get this logic



He was able to hold off Zoro but was no way his equal. Your logic fails



ChaosX7 said:


> wasnt postskip tashigi above current brook



Your post wasn't stupid, it was just misinformed. Tashigi is a decent swordsman comparing her to Mihawk, Zoro and the rest, but she is just normal. 

She does not have any destructive power, and we've only seen one technique from her, which in my opinion is just a downgraded version of Zoro's Lion Song attack except she calls it something else and holds her blade differently. 

If Oda intends for tashigi to be a threat to Zoro (which I highly doubt) then he needs to show her fighting an opponent that she can actually defeat without help. She was almost killed by Law, Lost easily to Luffy, destroyed by Vergo, and almost had her shoulder torn apart by Monet

This girl.....REALLY needs to redeem hersef


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## ZenGamr (Dec 21, 2012)

Based on skill, I think Kaku is above Tashigi. If you factor in raw power, then Tashigi has a slight edge.


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## Admiral Kuzan (Dec 22, 2012)

ZenGamr said:


> Based on skill, I think Kaku is above Tashigi. If you factor in raw power, then Tashigi has a slight edge.



We have seen absolutely no feats of Tashigi using any "raw" power. Kaka was able to slice through the damn Enies Lobby Tower with his Rankakyu as just a way to blow off steam.


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## Zyrax D Buggy (Dec 28, 2012)

Tashigi should be able to take this mid diff, she has been shown to be able to use soru to dodge Mone's snowballs. With haki imbued slashes she should be able to penetrate through Tekkai.


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## Extravlad (Dec 28, 2012)

Tashigi mid diff.


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