# Batman, Incorporated



## Castiel (Apr 18, 2008)

Saw this poll on CBR and thought I'd repost.

Honestly I think Drake has the right stuff for it, though Dick wouldn't be bad.  I would hate Damian as Bats, he's just waaaay too new a character for me to ever accept him, plus I just don't like him much.

**


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## omg laser pew pew! (Apr 18, 2008)

Lol at DC copying Marvel


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## Castiel (Apr 18, 2008)

They aren't killing him off, Grant says that Bruce might pass on the cape to the next generation.

**


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## omg laser pew pew! (Apr 18, 2008)

Oh that's lame. Neither, Tim, Dick or Todd (lol TDT) are worthy of saying "I'm Batman".


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## Castiel (Apr 18, 2008)

Morrison interview on CBR about RIP



> ?Ultimately, Tim Drake deserves it, but it?s not necessarily the way that it is going to work out,? Morrison said of the DCU?s Robin since 1991. ?Of all the characters, he?s the one that actually deserves to be Batman, because he has put so much effort into it. And it wasn?t an accident for him. It?s something he actually chose to do. Tim would be very much like the original. He would try really hard to live up to Batman in a way that would actually suit his own personality but I think he?d wind up being quite grim and determined.
> 
> ?Dick Grayson would be a very different Batman,? Morrison continued, speaking of the original Boy Wonder, who now protects Gotham City as Nightwing. ?The way I always compare the two of them is that Bruce Wayne was a little rich kid who was quite weak and sickly until the moment his parents were killed and then he decided to become strong. But Dick Grayson is a tough little circus kid. He was born tough. And he was probably quite poor. He was a carny. He spoke strangely. He didn?t sound like a rich person. I like playing with those things that people don?t think of all of the time, the class aspects of it all. So Dick Grayson would be kind of a circus Batman. He?d smile a lot more. He?d be really fun.?
> 
> ...




It's all about the buttsex.


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## WarriorS (Apr 18, 2008)

You know, this is kinda interesting, but Tim Drake will never take up the Batman mantle. Have you all forgotten "The Future is Now"?



			
				Batman said:
			
		

> You don't understand yet, Tim. So many heroes fell during it all.
> 
> During the *Crisis*.



What if _this_ is the Crisis that Batman was supposed to die in, and not Infinite Crisis? That'd mean Titans of Tomorrow could still be on...


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## Castiel (Apr 19, 2008)

Well this _is_ the Final Crisis, Morrison said that any other "crisises" that may come along the line will have to be given another name.  And Morrison's Batman will tie-in with FC after RIP

**​


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 19, 2008)

I really hate it how DC went out of their way to make Tim into Bruce #2.


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## Dave (Apr 19, 2008)

Dick would be the best choice.

But I'd rather he stay as Nightwing.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Apr 19, 2008)

According to CassToons, Dick is really emo

So how would that play out?


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## Wesley (Apr 19, 2008)

...Cassandra Cain returns wearing an androgynous, mechanical Batman costume?


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 19, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> According to CassToons, Dick is really emo
> 
> So how would that play out?



It's just extrapolating from Nightwing's shitty OYL. Remember, CassToons was started as a response to Robin OYL. Pretty much the entire Cass-Cult then and even now agree that Nightwing's OYL was worse than Cassandra's.

He's dating Irina of the Cass Daughters now and has tremendously improved overall, but still experiences the occasional relapse here and there. It's just coincidence that Nightwing is featured in CassToons during said occasional relapses.



Wesley said:


> ...Cassandra Cain returns wearing an androgynous, mechanical Batman costume?



As much as I worship Cassandra, even I disagree with her taking the mantle.


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## Spy_Smasher (Apr 19, 2008)

Dave said:


> Dick would be the best choice.
> 
> But I'd rather he stay as Nightwing.


this is exactly what I think. He'd make the best hero, Batman or otherwise, but I hope he stays his own thing, rather than Batman-lite, the way Jean Paul Valley was. If it's a passing-of-the-torch kind of thing, I'd really like him to be offered but turn it down.


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## Green Lantern (Apr 19, 2008)

It'd be an interesting dynamic to see Jason Todd, the black sheep/prodigal son of the family get the mantle... And I'll love to see all the howling fanboys.


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## Wesley (Apr 19, 2008)

How about letting everyone do it, kind of like what happened with the Death and Return of Superman?


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## Chatulio (Apr 19, 2008)

^ Reign of the Batmen? I could see it now 

The man of Kevlar

The Gotham Kid

Cyborg Batman


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## Banhammer (Apr 19, 2008)

It's pretty damn obvoius that I am the only logical choice for the next batman.
I have no problems with black rubber suits, grappling hooks and ropes, and someone has to take care of them motherlovin 5p33dbl1tz3r5!!11!1


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## Agmaster (Apr 20, 2008)

Hey guys, Bruce is fucking old and should give up the ghost.  Much as I like Drake as Robin, I'd have to pick him.  Eventually he'll stop hanging out with the titans.  And eventually his smile will wear thin.  Not to mention like the guy in the interview said, he is most deserving.  As of now the runt basically is batman without the name brand.  

But hey, let's have comics never move forward in time.  I hear superman can turn back time, how cool is that?


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## Banhammer (Apr 20, 2008)

Oh, don't worry, Robin will just punch through the batcave and make Bruce 20 again.
Or he'll be dipped in a Lazarous Pit or something.


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## The Rook (Apr 20, 2008)

Wasn't Batman's age reduced not too long ago?


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## ghstwrld (Apr 20, 2008)

Terry McGinnis is the true heir to the throne.


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 20, 2008)

The Rook said:


> Wasn't Batman's age reduced not too long ago?


You mean when he fell in the Lazurus Pit? That happened in the early 90's, but in comic book time it was only a couple of days ago. 



ghstwrld said:


> Terry McGinnis is the true heir to the throne.


He's from an alternate Earth, it was in one of the Countdown boooks.


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## Indarapatra (Apr 20, 2008)

anyone have a link to all the issues grant morrison did for batman? i need to catch up..


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 20, 2008)

Indarapatra said:


> anyone have a link to all the issues grant morrison did for batman? i need to catch up..


Yeah, I've got it. *CLICK HERE*


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## lucky (Apr 20, 2008)

y'know initially i'd have wanted Dick to do it. He was the first, the oldest son, with the most claim to the cowl.  

But he's too much of his own man now.  He's long stepped out of batman's shadow and is a first-class, most-respected former sidekick there is.  He's also the best leader in the DCU right now. (according to writers)

Even if he has the most claim i'd think he'd be taking a step backwards if he became batman.  So i think that Tim would be most suitable for the cowl (after he grows up some).  But for now if there must be a new batman for sure it's Dick.


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## The Rook (Apr 20, 2008)

This event is really just an opportunity to change the character up a little.  We won't be seeing a new Batman; we will be seeing a costume and identity for Bruce.  RIP Batman means the death of the moniker.

(too lazy to look up one of the sarcastic looking smile codes)


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 20, 2008)

The Rook said:


> This event is really just an opportunity to change the character up a little. We won't be seeing a new Batman; we will be seeing a costume and identity for Bruce. RIP Batman means the death of the moniker.
> 
> *(too lazy to look up one of the sarcastic looking smile codes)*


 = : + sclap


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## Chatulio (Apr 20, 2008)

The Rook said:


> Wasn't Batman's age reduced not too long ago?



Has mainstream batman ever been older than his 40's is a better question.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Apr 20, 2008)

He's old in the same way that Peter Parker is still in his twenties


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## Emery (Apr 20, 2008)

Man... I hate this Final Crisis shit.  They're going to change everything I love.  ;[


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## mystictrunks (Apr 21, 2008)

Part of me thinks the whole Trinity is going to get temporarily replaced. Bats with one of his proteges, Superman with that twerp Chris Kent, and Wonder Woman with one of her sidekicks.


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## Proxy (Apr 21, 2008)

Terry McGinnis, even in an alternative timelime, would and should be Bruce's heir. I'm not into the JL explanation of him being Bruce's son, but his take on it was refreshing and well done.


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## Saruto (Apr 21, 2008)

Proxy said:


> Terry McGinnis, even in an alternative timelime, would and should be Bruce's heir. I'm not into the JL explanation of him being Bruce's son, but his take on it was refreshing and well done.



I agree. Terry McGinnis should b the next Batman. I'm sure the writers can come up with some hocus-pocus to make it happen.


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## Castiel (Apr 21, 2008)

Anyone know if Detective Comics, Robin, Nightwing or even Batman and the Outsiders will crossover with Batman for R.I.P.?


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## Mashiro (Apr 21, 2008)

Lol, this reminds me of Batman Beyond.


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## the_ilest (Apr 21, 2008)

dang, this is some crap why do they got to be killing of the best characters.


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## The Wanderer (Apr 22, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Anyone know if Detective Comics, Robin, Nightwing or even Batman and the Outsiders will crossover with Batman for R.I.P.?


As far as I know, Robin'll have a tie-in issue. According to the solicit, Tim'll be on the run or something like that.


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## qks (Apr 22, 2008)

jason todd would be a awsome batman

he'd be batman with a strap and a knife  and imo hes better than dick and tim ,hes beaten them down before


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## ghstwrld (Apr 22, 2008)

Wait a minute, Jason Todd is alive?!?  Didn't Joker beat him to death or something?

[edit]

Didn't DC say he was on of the few characters that would never come back from the dead?


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 22, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> Wait a minute, Jason Todd is alive?!? Didn't Joker beat him to death or something??


Some Crisis related stuff(?) happened. Then he came back.


ghstwrld said:


> [edit]
> 
> Didn't DC say he was on of the few characters that would never come back from the dead?


They lied. 

I think it was the same as Marvel's policy on Bucky and Ucle Ben. They couldn't comeback unless the story was great (not good) enough to warrant the character's return. I don't know about Jason though. I didn't read it.


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## ghstwrld (Apr 22, 2008)

Honestly, I don't even know why I'm shocked and appalled by this any more.  

Oh, and it looks like some people agree with me on Terry McGinnis being the only correct answer to this question.  Make it happen DC.


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## Castiel (Apr 23, 2008)

Jason Todd got brought back when Superboy-Prime broke reality in the build up to Infinite Crisis.  He went evil but then Batman shamed him into being good again, he played a major role in Countdown.

Also Terry McGuinnes, NO, just no.  That worked perfectly in DCAU in a far future, but the DCU is vastly different from the DCAU, also Terry would never work if any of the 4 in the poll are still active.

Also R.I.P. will effect the other Batbooks in some ways


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 23, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Jason Todd got brought back when Superboy-Prime broke reality in the build up to Infinite Crisis. He went evil but then Batman shamed him into being good again, he played a major role in Countdown.


but that makes no sense. Not the reality breaking part, the Jason coming back. Jason Todd was dead, he wasn't hiding in an alternate world. 

Also, if I died and somehow I came back. I go kill the Joker (even though he's made of win) for killing me. I understand the impossible happens in comics, but this is just stupid.

Bucky's comeback (Captain America) >>>>>>>> this shit.


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## Castiel (Apr 23, 2008)

Indeed, SBP's punch simply made it so that he just appeared grown up with everyone (including him) thinking he died.  He tried to kill Joker, then Batman went all "I've always wanted to kill him but, I'm Batman, and Batman doesn't kill" and Jason Todd was all "I've learned the error of my ways, also I stand by the fact that I was a better Robin than Tim Drake "


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 23, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Indeed, SBP's punch simply made it so that he just appeared grown up with everyone (including him) thinking he died. He tried to kill Joker, then Batman went all "I've always wanted to kill him but, I'm Batman, and Batman doesn't kill" and Jason Todd was all "I've learned the error of my ways, also I stand by the fact that I was a better Robin than Tim Drake "


That is just incredibly lame.


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## Castiel (Apr 23, 2008)

Indeed, so now he's all half hero half villain, where he acts all emoy and conflicted and yet still killed a multiverse version of the Joker when no one was looking to make himself feel better...


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 23, 2008)

Oh yeah, he smashed his skull with a rock. lol


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## SSJKrillin (Apr 23, 2008)

If Batman passes on the mantle i will stop reading batman. this shit fucking pisses me off. 
Between Spiderman and this i might swear off all comics.

Final Crisis had better be fucking epic, caus countdown was a piece of shit.


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## qks (Apr 23, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Indeed, SBP's punch simply made it so that he just appeared grown up with everyone (including him) thinking he died.  He tried to kill Joker, then Batman went all "I've always wanted to kill him but, I'm Batman, and Batman doesn't kill" and Jason Todd was all "I've learned the error of my ways, also I stand by the fact that I was a better Robin than Tim Drake "



i must of missed that


i rember when  he beat him with a crow bar and rember when he was gonna shoot joker in the head and batman had to kill him to stop

dont rember jason having a change of heart till he meet earth 51 batman who did go on killing spree n jason didnt like what he wished for


hes like the punisher now


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 27, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Kilowog said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, SBP's punch simply made it so that he just appeared grown up with everyone (including him) thinking he died... "
> ...


I take it back, it was just the way you told the story that made it lame. I just read *Batman Annual 25 *, I thought it was really good. He didn't just magically become an adult he grew up unknown to the world. 

I don't want to spoil for thos who haven't read it, but it made a lot of sense (in a comic book sort of way) as why no one knew he was still alive.


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## Castiel (Apr 27, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> I take it back, it was just the way you told the story that made it lame..



I've always sucked at describing things


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## LIL_M0 (Apr 27, 2008)

Oh, well the origin was really good. The art sucked on the "revenge on the Joker" story but it was ok. I lol'd when Joker suggested they should take reunion photos, Robin, Joker and the crowbar.


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## LIL_M0 (May 2, 2008)

Does anyone know if there is a Batman R.I.P. read/buy tie-ins list?


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## Castiel (May 3, 2008)

Batman #676 - ??? (duh)
Robin #176 - ??? (events of R.I.P. from Robin's perspective)
Detective Comics #846 - ??? (return of Hush arc, Hush is believed to be the person Joker is talking about in DCU #0, plus Hush is appearing in a bunch of Final Crisis promos)

unknown if B & The Outsiders or Nightwing are tying in but Didio said they will be effected by it in some ways


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## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2008)

Didn't they already do a Retutn of Hush story?


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## Castiel (May 3, 2008)

yeah well he's returning again, it was bound to happen, that "return" arc you posted happened back in 2005


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## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2008)

So he's re-returning? 

It reminds me of this old cartoon where Bugs says: 
"And so after disposing of the monster Bugs Bunny (does something?)...
*a few seconds later
And so after redisposing of the monster Bugs Bunny (does something?)...
*a few more seconds later
And so after re-redisposing of the monster Bugs Bunny (does something?)."


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## Castiel (May 3, 2008)

well he came back after disappearing in Loeb's Batman run.  He beat the crap out of the Joker and Riddler and kicked Joker out of Gotham city and took over the underworld.  Joker came back with an army of pidgeons and then did something spoilerish to make Hush to away *  He obviously thought of something to go around Joker's trap so he's obviously coming back, he HATES Bruce Wayne + knows he's Batman + he's actually one of the smarter Batman villains



* 
*Spoiler*: __ 



he put a faulty pace maker on Hush's heart and threatened to make it go boom if he saw him again


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## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2008)

Yeah, I'm not saying Hush is lame. After not like Batman for so long, I gave his story a shot. Fuggin win. 

off on a tangent:
It's not that I don't like Batman. I think he's awesome IN GOTHAM. Whenever he goes off with the Justice Leaguem and takes down someone/something incredibly powerful, I raise the bullshit flag half mast. I mean, yeah he's famous and in every book at the same time, like Wolverine- don't care about that. It's just the rediculous feats he pulls because he's "smart"... GTFOH with that bullshit.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 3, 2008)

That's true, there are some heroes that *just cannot work in a team*. Too bad Bendis does not realize that when he flooded both New and Mighty with those people


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## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2008)

I like the Ares/ Wonderman... mainly because he hit that douchebad in the head with a cornerstone.


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 3, 2008)

Only time Wonderman is good is when _he gets knocked out_ and even then it _wasn't written by Bendis_.


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## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2008)

My love for Wonderman's humiliation outweighs my care for who wrote it. 

Maybe Pak can give Bendis some pointers. Then Ares can hit Wonderman with bricks all the time


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 3, 2008)

I would respect Bendis like I respect Johns if that happened


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## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2008)

I just read Morrisons run looking for insight on Batman R.I.P.I had to stop at issue 663. I hate Grant Morrison for making the Joker unfunny. Now he's just a regular crazy person. There's no fun in that. Also, the art reminded me of that creepy Twisted Metal Black game.





I mean come on. The Joker was great because he was charmingly insane. Now he's just a douchebag with white skin and green hair... Like Joker from cartoon, the newer, lame cartoon. Then he tried to kill Harley Quinn... for real this time. What the fuck!






This sucks. Why does Morrison always fuck with my favorite villians? First he cuts Magneto's fuckin head off and now Mistah J doesn't "do it for teh lulz" anymore. That's just wrong on so many levels. Hopefully he's still awesome in Salvation Run. He needs to be...






Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?


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## HumanWine (May 3, 2008)

They should give Bats sum powerz....I wanna see him solo the JLA


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## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2008)

He could solo the JLA without powers... because "he's smart". I still can't beilive how dumb writers think we are.


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## Castiel (May 4, 2008)

M0 - Batman #663, is Joker's last appearance in Morrison's run fyi so if you continue you don't have to sit throught Morrison's Joker again

on Batman/JLAa:



probably the best stated reason why Batman doesn't belong in the JLA.

also brings to mind the lulz we're probably in for in Squadron Supreme 2, involving Nighthawk.


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## Blitzomaru (May 5, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Yeah, I'm not saying Hush is lame. After not like Batman for so long, I gave his story a shot. Fuggin win.
> 
> off on a tangent:
> It's not that I don't like Batman. I think he's awesome IN GOTHAM. Whenever he goes off with the Justice Leaguem and takes down someone/something incredibly powerful, I raise the bullshit flag half mast. *I mean, yeah he's famous and in every book at the same time, like Wolverine*- don't care about that. It's just the rediculous feats he pulls because he's "smart"... GTFOH with that bullshit.



ZOMFG!!! Batman's a Skrulll!!!!!!


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## Castiel (May 7, 2008)

Batman #676 (first part of R.I.P.) preview


*Spoiler*: _first 5 pages_


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## LIL_M0 (May 7, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Batman #676 (first part of R.I.P.) preview
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _first 5 pages_


Good, Mime guy. Youu look kinda cool.


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## Castiel (May 7, 2008)

fixed it

890


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## HumanWine (May 7, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Good, Mime guy. Youu look kinda cool.


LOL!!!!!!!!


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 8, 2008)

That looks like Sakura and Naruto

I think


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## ZenGamr (May 9, 2008)

No one except Bruce Wayne gets to be the bats. Can't they make up something where Wayne has his life extended? Come on, it's all fiction, so who cares?


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## Castiel (May 9, 2008)

well this was certainly, ... interesting ...

GTFO GB



> FLASHBACK: BATMAN R.I.P. THE FIRST TIME
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


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## LIL_M0 (May 14, 2008)

The first book was weird. The dialogue seemed sporadic, no rhyme or reason at all. The Joker/ Arkham (atleast I'm assuming it's Arkham Assylum) scene was... Well, I don't know what the hell that was. I think I'll wait for the story to be complete before reading any further.



...and I still hate Grant Morrison for making the Joker an unfunny weirdo.


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## Comic Book Guy (May 14, 2008)

Morrison's Joker from Batman #663 is back, from the looks of it.

Personally, I dig his interpretation.


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## LIL_M0 (May 14, 2008)

I don't


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## Comic Book Guy (May 14, 2008)

What about Ledger's?


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## LIL_M0 (May 14, 2008)

As in Heath? I don't know yet, can't really tell much from the movie trailers.


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## Castiel (May 14, 2008)

Official Tie-In list:

Batman #676 - #681
Detective Comics #846 - #850
Nightwing #147 - #150
Robin #175, #176
Batman & The Outsiders #11 - #13


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## WarriorS (May 17, 2008)

Holy Crap, I just started re-reading Morrison's run. A few things:

Batman #663 is a LOT better upon a re-reading. Actually, I'm only now seeing the blatant drops: the "8 Murderous Clowns" who die in Batman #663 and now the 8 members of the Black Glove (Don't include Joker. Remember DC Universe #0. He's the "Wild Card").

The "Club of Heroes" is also a must read. All those weird guys you see? Yeah, we've seen or heard about them before; in that arc. They are all the villains of the Batmen surrogates. Lemme go through them:

*The Mime Guy* = _Pierre Lunaire_, a villain whose favorite murder is "Death by Mime" and is the enemy of the Musketeer. (Mentioned by the Musketeer, Batman #668)

*Mr. Diving Bell* = _King Kraken_, a disfigured deep sea diver turned pirate and enemy of Wingman. (Mentioned by Batman, Batman #669)

*The Masked Wrestler* = _El Sombrero_, a maker of elaborate deathtraps and nemesis of El Gaucho. (Mentioned by El Gaucho, Batman #668, and "seen" in #669)

*Caesar-Looking Guy* = One of the Centurion's Villains. He's the one that really clued me into the connection, him and the mime. Don't have a name yet, though.

*The Girl in the Helment* = _"Sheila"_, one of Dark Ranger's enemies and an expert in robotics. It could also be _Scorpiana_, but as El Gaucho already has one of his villains represented, I figured that Morrison would plant one of each (Except for Man-of-Bats, who represents his reservation and not a full nation. Too small an area, I suppose). (Mentioned by Wingman, Batman #668)

*Tin-Can Guy* = _Spring-Heeled Jack_, a villain of the Knight. I'm not fully convinced of this one either, but he is wearing boots and the costume would seem to fit a bit. Plus, I'm sure Morrison would be itching to use a character that has a big British lore connection. (Mentioned by The Squire, Batman #668)

The final thing I can think of is the best drop in #663: The fact that the Joker won't kill Batman. He's the straight man in his act. Thusly, he might prevent the Black Glove from outright killing him (Which is why in the Dead Man's hand, he's not one of the 8 and he's the lone wildcard).

Anyone else seeing this sort of stuff?

Edit: It figures, I'm away for the better part of a week, post this, and then review Newsarama to find this.

So it _was_ Scorpiana, but I'm right on just about all the rest. Just need confirmation on the Tin Can guy.


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## LIL_M0 (May 17, 2008)

Cool man. *Rep


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## Castiel (May 17, 2008)

Interesting insight WarriorS.

Oh and anyone read Action Comics #864?

It seemed like Johns was jamming in as many hints about RIP that he possibly could.


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## LIL_M0 (May 17, 2008)

Action comics you say? Hmmmm...


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 17, 2008)

Jolly good old chap but do you honestly expect me to fall for this ruse?


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## Castiel (May 17, 2008)

The issue was an epilogue to his "Superman and the Legion" arc (which btw I actually think ya might like m0, supes nonwithstanding).

Anyways Batman makes an appearance in that issue to discuss Karate Kid's death from Countdown and Johns sprinkles a bunch of "Legion of 3 Worlds" build-up.  Also the narrator (likely the guy who sends Prime into the future later), mentions a bunch of things about the fall and death of batman.  It comes up way too many times in the issue to be a coincidence.

Since none of Johns' books has batman as a character I guess he figured this was his best chance to mention RIP.  It's interesting stuff though.


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## LIL_M0 (May 17, 2008)

What's the purpose of Action Comics any ways? Just another Supperman title?


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## Castiel (May 17, 2008)

It the first DC comic monthly which Superman debuted in, keeping it alive is a matter of pride I guess.  They keep it alive for the same reason they keep Detective Comics alive for Batman.  I would imagine they were originally meant as "Confidential" type series but are now just a 2nd title for double joy.  Johns took over after IF, and it's consistently good, though not as good as GL or BG it's in the same ballpark.  Just imagine SUperman stories that don't get caught up with the whole "I'm SUperman I have responsibility and blah blah blah" and was more the pace of a Johns' book.


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## vicious1 (May 17, 2008)

They keep them alive because technically those are the main books.


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## Castiel (May 19, 2008)

ok so according to the new solicitation, the Nightwing RIP tie ins will be "Nightwing vs Two-Face" written by Tomasi.  And Dini's "Hush
: RIP" arc will focus a lot on the childhoods of Bruce and Tommy.  This entire event is getting more and more itneresting.

*Nightwing/Two-Face:*


*Batman and Robin vs the Club of Villains:*


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## LIL_M0 (May 19, 2008)

Batman looks fat and constipated.


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## Castiel (May 19, 2008)

Anyone else think that cover was Alex Ross parodying a typical fight from the adam west series?


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 19, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Batman looks fat and constipated.



That's what I thought as well


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## LIL_M0 (May 19, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Anyone else think that cover was Alex Ross parodying a typical fight from the adam west series?


BANG!! SOCK!! POW! BIFF! 

Seriously, wtf if "BIFF"? Na na na na na na na na na na na na Bat Man!


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## omg laser pew pew! (May 19, 2008)

Better than 'SKKKKKEETTCHHHHH'

Kudos to whoever knows where that's from


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## Castiel (May 19, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Batman looks fat and constipated.



the one downside to Alex Ross, he makes things too realistic at times


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## LIL_M0 (May 19, 2008)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Better than 'SKKKKKEETTCHHHHH'
> 
> Kudos to whoever knows where that's from


Ultimates 3? 


Kilowog said:


> the one downside to Alex Ross, he makes things too realistic at times


Yeah, that and he can't draw action scenes for shit.


----------



## Castiel (May 19, 2008)

WarriorS said:


> *Caesar-Looking Guy* = One of the Centurion's Villains. He's the one that really clued me into the connection, him and the mime. Don't have a name yet, though.
> 
> *Tin-Can Guy* = _Spring-Heeled Jack_, a villain of the Knight. I'm not fully convinced of this one either, but he is wearing boots and the costume would seem to fit a bit. Plus, I'm sure Morrison would be itching to use a character that has a big British lore connection. (Mentioned by The Squire, Batman #668)
> 
> .





Ceasar guy is Charlie Caligula, tin can guy is also confirmed

anyone know where Dr. Hurt and the Hunchback are from?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (May 19, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Ultimates 3?
> 
> Yeah, that and he can't draw action scenes for shit.



Yes on both points


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 19, 2008)

I'm awesome. Woot! :WOW


----------



## Dead Bones Musician (May 19, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Batman looks fat and constipated.



Too many batcookies says I.


----------



## Graham Aker (May 20, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Anyone else think that cover was Alex Ross parodying a typical fight from the adam west series?


Well, the guy is still stuck in the Silver Age.


----------



## THE PHANTASM ZERO (May 20, 2008)

*Dick Grayson (Nightwing) *


----------



## Castiel (May 21, 2008)

same thing I posted above but this one is a big pdf version of it


----------



## Dead Bones Musician (May 21, 2008)

This is the first DC comic book event I've gotten into, mind you.  It just feels that important.


----------



## Aeon (May 21, 2008)

Bruce IS Batman, anything else is herasy


----------



## Castiel (May 24, 2008)

Morrison does another Interview about his grand plan for RIP, don't worry he does explain wtf happened at the end of Batman 676


----------



## Castiel (May 25, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #677 preview_ 







[/img]


----------



## HumanWine (May 26, 2008)

I'd go ghey for Batman......


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 26, 2008)

I'm guessing that due to the unpredictable, crazy force of nature that is Grant Morrison, I say that out of the high-blue, Azarel pops up to again take on the Mantle of the Bat.

Hey, he's crazy that it's possible.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 26, 2008)

After the preview, I've lost all interest in this story.


----------



## Castiel (May 26, 2008)

in DC nation Didio had 3 characters that would also be affected by RIP that isn't who we expect, one of them started with an "A"...


----------



## xingzup19 (May 26, 2008)

Aquaman?


----------



## Castiel (May 26, 2008)

hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahha


----------



## xingzup19 (May 26, 2008)

He isn't who I expected.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (May 26, 2008)

But you mentioned him!


----------



## Castiel (May 26, 2008)

here's basically what the quote said



> Bruce, Tim, Dick, Alfred, Talia, Damian, T- - - - - - , J- - - - - - , A- - - - - , Selina and all the rest.



pulling a blank for "T", I think "J" might be joker, and "A" I'm going with Azrael since we never saw a corpse.


----------



## SSJKrillin (May 28, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



If alfred dies im giving up




how are a bunch of d-list villains supposed to convincingly break the bat?


----------



## Castiel (May 28, 2008)

Those are all the "Jokers" of the "Batman of Al Nations", they're apparently in League together to destroy all the club of Heroes: 3 down, 5 to go.  Batman is just the biggest target


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (May 28, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> here's basically what the quote said
> 
> 
> 
> pulling a blank for "T", I think "J" might be joker, and "A" I'm going with Azrael since we never saw a corpse.



I think might be Talia al Ghul


----------



## Sylar (May 29, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> here's basically what the quote said
> 
> 
> 
> ...





omg laser pew pew! said:


> I think might be Talia al Ghul



Highly unlikely. 

J is Jason, A is Azrael, and T is possibly Two-Face.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (May 29, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Highly unlikely.
> 
> J is Jason, A is Azrael, and T is possibly Two-Face.



I was testing you my disciple

Well done, much proud am I


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 29, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Meh, let Jason do it. It'd be fun to have a psycho Batman prowling Gotham with grenades and an AK-47. Imagine how much crime would go down if GPD suddenly started finding criminals dead or beaten with an inch of their lives.





But in all seriousness, I think Dick's the man for the job. But as I think Tim will be the direction they take.


----------



## Castiel (May 29, 2008)

Two-Face is appearing in the Nightwing: RIP arc which makes it a bit unlikely he'll play a role in the main series.


----------



## Sylar (May 29, 2008)

Chaos Ghost said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd like it to be Damien



> Two-Face is appearing in the Nightwing: RIP arc which makes it a bit unlikely he'll play a role in the main series.



Could it be that Japanese Toyman that works for him? Or it could be Thomas Elliot.


----------



## Castiel (May 29, 2008)

Tommy Elliot is the primary focus of Hush: RIP which will run in DC.

Also I will say this, I think it's about time we got Azrael back, I liked him, plus he was the only other man to be Batman.


----------



## xingzup19 (May 29, 2008)

I still think it's Aquaman.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (May 29, 2008)

xingzup19 said:


> I still think it's Aquaman.



Marry me please. The children we shall bear will be both great and many


----------



## xingzup19 (May 29, 2008)

I think I'd rather stay a bachelor.


----------



## Dietsunkist (May 29, 2008)

T might be Thomas Wayne.


----------



## Sylar (May 29, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Tommy Elliot is the primary focus of Hush: RIP which will run in DC.
> 
> Also I will say this, I think it's about time we got Azrael back, I liked him, plus he was the only other man to be Batman.



Then could it be that Japanese Toyman?


----------



## Spy_Smasher (May 29, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Also I will say this, I think it's about time we got Azrael back, I liked him, plus he was the only other man to be Batman.


I liked him too. Well, I liked him once he got his own series and the Azrael costume. He was a stupid Batman.


----------



## chrisp (May 29, 2008)

Eh? Lol? 

Bruce Wayne is Batman. Batman can't die. What is this silly thread?


----------



## Castiel (May 29, 2008)

Batman #677 was fucking awesome, all the doubts that #676 instilled in me vanished.

Also I am now convinced that this Club of Villains have a chance at crushing Batman, I mean for fuck's sake they're planning to ruin the reputation of his FUCKING PARENTS, that is too low for words.


----------



## Deviate (May 29, 2008)

Yeah, I agree with you on this. The first issue was boring as hell, but this issue had me really interested.


----------



## xingzup19 (May 30, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Also I am now convinced that this Club of Villains have a chance at crushing Batman, I mean for fuck's sake they're planning to ruin the reputation of his FUCKING PARENTS, that is too low for words.



That reminds me of one of the arcs of the MAX Punisher. Rawlins desacrated / pissed on Frank's family's graves, and taped it and showed it on TV.

Too low.


----------



## Sylar (May 30, 2008)

xingzup19 said:


> That reminds me of one of the arcs of the MAX Punisher. Rawlins desacrated / pissed on Frank's family's graves, and taped it and showed it on TV.
> 
> Too low.



That wasn't Rawlins that was Nick.

Then Frank shot him so that he'd take days to die and left him in the woods like how Nick killed his parents. Poetic Justice bitch.


----------



## xingzup19 (May 30, 2008)

My mistake.


----------



## Arishem (May 31, 2008)

I just got caught up with Morrison's run on Batman, except for TRoRAG which put me to sleep. It didn't surprise me that all of the issues contained information relevant to RIP. What I'm wondering now is how does Batman 666 fit into the picture?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 31, 2008)

What's TRoRAG?


----------



## Castiel (May 31, 2008)

The Ressurection of Ra's Al Ghul.

Oh yeah and I too have read all of Morrison's run, my thoughts.

Batman & Son - Decent, too short imho but I liked how Damian was introduced
Clown at Midnight - Wouldn't have been so bad IF IT WEREN"T IN PROSE
Three Faces of Batman - Better after the first reading
Number of the Beast - really rushed, didn't know wtf was going on but it was certaintly interesting
The Island of Mister Mayhew - I lold at this arc
The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul - meh, could have been better but wasn't too bad
Pre R.I.P. - Really this is the last half of TFoB, was ok and set up the foundation of RIP nicely


SOmething i really liked about the Batbooks though is that if you weren't into Morrison's built up stories and such you could just read Dini's DC which is pretty much all stand alones and vice verse.


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 1, 2008)

I did think the art of Clown At Midnight was really good.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 1, 2008)

xingzup19 said:


> I did think the art of Clown At Midnight was really good.


 **


----------



## Castiel (Jun 1, 2008)

Stayride >>>> Clown AT Midnight


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 1, 2008)

Slayride really was a great story... too bad Joker ddn't get his milkshakes.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 1, 2008)

hey M0 two questions:

Have you read Batman #677? it's much better than #676 and isn't nearly as confusing.

also have ya read "KnightSaga"? it's a major storyline where Bats quits and then regains his title, pretty good.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 1, 2008)

No, after 676 I called it quits until the end of the story arc. 

I rember that from back when comics went throught the "EXTREME!!!11! :" phase. I think I hated all comics during that time. I didn't start back reading until Grant Morrison wrote for X-Men.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 1, 2008)

your loss, imho this was the true start of RIP, last issue seems like pure prelude.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 1, 2008)

Yeah, I don't mind waiting to read it. 

Thanks, but no thanks.


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 2, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> also have ya read "KnightSaga"? it's a major storyline where Bats quits and then regains his title, pretty good.



Is that the one after Bane breaks Batman's back. <<< That was the first TPB I ever bought, and it's the one that got me hooked up to Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2008)

yeah Knightfall is when he got his back broken + when Azrael beat up Bane.  Knightquest (which was never put into TPBs) is basically a few months of Azrael fighting Bruce's enemies.  KnightsEnd is when Bruce comes back and beats Azrael.


----------



## SSJKrillin (Jun 2, 2008)

theres also a soryline after where batman goes to find himself, and he gives dick the mantle


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2008)

That was the Prodigal arc which happened after KnightsEnd.  basically he still felt he needed to find himself but he sure as hell knew Azrael didn't deserve it


----------



## the_ilest (Jun 2, 2008)

Dang i come back from europe and batman is dead.... crap i think im going back.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2008)

he's not dead, though Martian Manhunter is >_>


----------



## Castiel (Jun 6, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Then could it be that Japanese Toyman?



His name is Hiro Nakamura Okamura (seriously that's his name).  Anyways Geoff Johns retconned it that *EVERY TOYMAN ASIDE FROM Winslow Schott WAS ALWAYS A ROBOT*.


----------



## HumanWine (Jun 7, 2008)

why are they doing this to Batman?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 7, 2008)

For teh lulz?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2008)

Because people have always attacked or crippled or targeted or utterly defeated *Batman*, it was just a matter of time till someone did this to *Bruce Wayne*


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2008)

calling it now, Morrison is writing both RIP and FC




just the kind of thing he'd do


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 9, 2008)

Interesting.  I approve.


----------



## HumanWine (Jun 9, 2008)

Why raep Batman like dat?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2008)

Taleran said:


> calling it now, Morrison is writing both RIP and FC
> 
> 
> 
> ...



have you even read Morrison's Batman?  This would be a compelte 180 that would completely undermine what he's been building up.  Which means this probably going to happen. zing


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 9, 2008)

I bet Azrael returns.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jun 9, 2008)

Taleran said:


> calling it now, Morrison is writing both RIP and FC
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jerk

That made me laugh so hard I nearly swallowed my chewy


----------



## Dietsunkist (Jun 11, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I bet Azrael returns.



Well, in the newest Booster Gold, there is a new chalkboard that has "Jean Paul Valley Lives" on it, and his face is in a window in a Gotham Underground cover.

More importantly, I have figured out who the new Batman will be, and nobody would have guessed it. The secret is from All-Flash #1.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Wally West will be the new Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 12, 2008)

in regards to azrael:

YIPEE!!!  Called it though when we were playing the name game with the blanks, lol aquaman.

Also despite not being involved with RIP, Geoff aparently knows what will occur.  In a recent issue of Action Comics it appeared as if he jammed as many hints about RIP as he possibly could.

in regards to the spoiler:

oh god no, please god no. 

Anyways that was written by Waid who is now in the process of going back to marvel and the big 2 tend to get into the habit of destorying everything a writer does after they jump ship (basically everything Morrison did for Marvel being retconned, Azrael being killed off when Quesada became Marvel cheif, etc.)


----------



## Taxman (Jun 12, 2008)

ahaha...I remember that page in the spoiler tag and when I saw that last panel I went "wait wut?"


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 12, 2008)

I actually thought that last panel was photoshopped or something.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 16, 2008)

September solicits:




> Written by Frank Tieri
> Cover by Jim Calafiore
> Art by Ryan Benjamin & Saleem Crawford
> A “Batman: R.I.P.” tie-in! In part 1 of the 2-part “Outsiders No More,” the team faces its greatest crisis ever! Could the absence of the Dark Knight mean the end of the Outsiders? Featuring a guest creative team of Frank Tieri (GOTHAM UNDERGROUND) and Ryan Benjamin (DETECTIVE COMICS), this issue spotlights major turning points for two main characters.






> Written by Paul Dini
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs
> A “Batman: R.I.P.” tie-in! “Heart of Hush” Part 3 of 5! To save the sanity of a kidnapped child, Batman must confront the Scarecrow! But their battle is just a part of Hush's plot against Batman and Bruce Wayne, setting the stage for the most shocking surprise ending of the year! Guest-starring Catwoman!






> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Don Kramer & Jay Leisten
> Cover by Rags Morales
> A “Batman: R.I.P.” tie-in! Nightwing’s been shot by an assassin! How can he save the life of Harvey Dent’s former lover before the
> killer returns to finish the job...and before he bleeds to death? Will Nightwing find sanctuary in the Batcave, or will Batman’s recent disappearance lead to an even bigger mystery?






> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art and cover by Freddie E. Williams II
> The repercussions from “Batman R.I.P.” have shaken Robin to the core. With all his relationships fracturing and his place as both sidekick and son, boyfriend and best friend thrown into turmoil, how will Tim Drake determine the best course of action for his future? "Search for a Hero" begins an epic tale that could very well turn the Boy Wonder into a man!



I think Batman #681 was pushed back till October


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 16, 2008)

I, for one, am enjoying Dustin Nguyen's run on Detective Comics.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 16, 2008)

You mean Paul Dini.

And yes I do like his run, whereas Morrison's Batman has some of that nice intrigue and complicated storyline, Dini's DC is all nice fun self contained stories


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 16, 2008)

Him too, but I meant the artist.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 17, 2008)

I like how Dini is bringing back Catwoman in his Hush arc, since Catwoman was an essential part of Jeph Loeb's awesome (yes I used Jeph Loeb and Awesome in the same sentence *fucking deal with it*) "Hush" arc with Jim Lee. Now all it needs is to have Riddler and it'll be a true sequel.


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 17, 2008)

I really should shoot myself in the face for not reading that Hush arc.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Jun 17, 2008)

Even *I* read 'Hush' and we all now how I feel about Jephhy


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 17, 2008)

Kilowog's hooking me up.


----------



## mow (Jun 17, 2008)

xingzup19 said:


> Kilowog's hooking me up.



so, how many times did you orgasm whilst flipping the pages?

I am; as is the case with  major arcs; holding out till the entire damn thing is finished. I am not a patient fellow and if i start i'd be ranting about the wait for days and days


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 17, 2008)

You talking about Hush? I've just got it, but I haven't started reading it yet.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 18, 2008)

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.  Here is the equation about Loeb:

Loeb + Sale + Batman = Masterpiece _[ex. Batman: Halloween epic]_
Loeb + Sale + (*ANYTHING*) = Masterpiece (most of the time) _[ex. Marvel Spectrum, Wolverine/Gambit, Superman for all seasons]_
Loeb + Batman = Likely Great _[ex. Hush]_
Loeb + DC (non Batman) = Decent _[ex. Our Worlds at War, Superman, Supergirl]_
Loeb + Marvel (without Sale) = Bad _[ex. Ultimates 3]_



> "Yes, of course he’s not, though maybe he will be, but won’t.”



Fabian Nicieza, when asked the question if Robin would become Batman after RIP.  Yeah just the kind of question I'd expect from the guy who created Deadpool


----------



## Castiel (Jun 19, 2008)

zomfg dp



Dini talks about his RIP tie in arc


----------



## batsman415 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hush becomes Batman, I'm calling it.


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 26, 2008)

I still think Aquaman has something to do with it.


----------



## cozapple (Jun 26, 2008)

BRUCEBRUCEBRUCEBRUCE.
lollers 
batman is a legend.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 26, 2008)

xingzup19 said:


> I still think Aquaman has something to do with it.



theres' like 3 aquamans (lol engrish), you talking about the original the one with a hook for a hand or the retcon young one?


----------



## xingzup19 (Jun 26, 2008)

The old, cool one with the beard. Whatever happened to him? Young Aquaman doesn't do it for me. Are his issues still in circulation?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 29, 2008)

Geoff Johns said:
			
		

> R.I.P. could stand for lots of things, like.... *run in place*!



 **


----------



## mow (Jun 29, 2008)

i wonder if bats will actually kill someone in this arc.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 30, 2008)

I guess having him actually kill someone would be such a betrayal to his code that having to live with doing it would be "a fate worse than death" for him.  But I might be looking into this too much.

iirc I think Bruce did kill people in his first appearances but that was soo far back no one remember this and the fallback excuse would be that the criseses have retconned the shit out of it


----------



## mow (Jun 30, 2008)

Im hoping that will be the route Grant will take. Having bats "die" in the literal sense is so anti-climatic, espically with how RIP is plastered all around the page since before the arc started. too easy and grant is far too imaginative to go that route.

That leaves us with two choices: either batman is broken mentally or physically. again, the latter is too easy. been there, done that, you know?

 but mentally? imagine that, the master of fear and mind games, the genius extraodrnar, given in to his darkest urge and kills someone (the joker?). the whip lash that it will cause, amonsgt Jim, Dick, Oracle, Cansandra, Tim, just about everyone. Batman crossed the line no one should cross. Bruce would hang up the mantle insantly

i hope it goes that route.imminesly more interesting, and will make the batman mythos even darker


----------



## Castiel (Jun 30, 2008)

Agreed. Knightfall was THE arc that broke Batman physically and Bruce overcame it in such a way that it really wouldn't be a credible threat, I mean he was relatively rock solid during No Man's Land if that didn't exhaust him physically not much else would.

Also the whole "Martha Wayne was a slut and Thomas was a drunken murdered" stuff clinches the whole psychological route, no one has ever had the balls to go that far bellow and belt and is truly the only thing I can see him killing over.  It's like Jim Gordon said, what the Black Glove is doing is essentially murdering his parents in front of him all over again.

also grant uses the term "fate worse than death" waaay too much to not follow through with it


----------



## Castiel (Jul 1, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #678 Preview_


----------



## Tendou Souji (Jul 2, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: _Batman #678 Preview_


I'm liking what I'm seeing there. But the beginning of the preview had me a bit wary.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 2, 2008)

what i'm curious is if that's Tim, DIck or Jason.  I haven't seen Daniels draw any of those characters without their masks so I can't distinquish between them


----------



## Tendou Souji (Jul 2, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> what i'm curious is if that's Tim, DIck or Jason.  I haven't seen Daniels draw any of those characters without their masks so I can't distinquish between them


I'm thinking it's either Tim or Dick. I don't think it's Jason for some odd reason that I'm unaware of.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 2, 2008)

Interesting issue, it seems like the Black Hand has tkane out Batman (drugging him up and then dumping him on the streets) AND Nightwing (drugging him and dumping him in arkham), and Bruce has gone crazy and think he is batmanwhich is odd becuase he is batman but he's crazy so he's really not......... *head explodes*  also Bat-Mite reappears and Dr. Hurt is wearing the old, old, old Batsuit that Thomas Wayne wore.

morrison is on crack I swear


----------



## The Wanderer (Jul 2, 2008)

5 bucks says that Dick will beat the snot out of the chick who ambushed him.

In the meantime, he got wtfpwned.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 2, 2008)

yeah he was foaming at the mouth and the he had the look of utter retardation on his face.

this really makes me wonder though, when the Two-Face arc in Nightwing will take place since it's supposed to be an RIP tie in


----------



## Castiel (Jul 3, 2008)

important info for people suffering from head explosion syndrome:



			
				some guy from CBR said:
			
		

> Batman #113
> The Batman of the planet, Zur En Arrh, teleports the real Batman to his homeworld. On Zur-En-Arrh, Bruce Wayne has powers equitible to that of Superman. He assists the alien Batman in fighting off a horde of robot invaders. After the robots are destroyed, the alien Batman sends Bruce Wayne back home. He gives him his Bat-Radia device as a keepsake.
> 
> So at this point, is Bruce trippin' balls, or was Zur-En-Arrh real after all, or is it a strange combination of the two?






oh yeah a little note, Bruce indirectly killed Honor Jackson, he gave him the money that he used to OD in Batman 676, though really Honor should have known using all that money on dope was going to kill him (bruce gave him a big stack)


----------



## mow (Jul 3, 2008)

wtf just happened in this issue? O.o



Kilowog said:


> morrison is on crack I swear



correct statment is correct

EDIT: ah, now things make sense


----------



## Castiel (Jul 3, 2008)

I bursted out laughing when Bat-Mite basically facepalmed at crazy bruce


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 3, 2008)

I think Warren Ellis has confirmed in the past that Morrison does do drugs.


----------



## Arishem (Jul 3, 2008)

flapjaxx said:
			
		

> As I've been saying for months now:
> 
> It's Joe Chill. It's Joe Chill. It's Joe Chill.
> 
> ...


This would be awesome if true.


----------



## Agmaster (Jul 3, 2008)

Morrison would be proud.  Hell, is there a way we can get him to see that?  Even if it's not true, it's still impressive.


----------



## Arishem (Jul 3, 2008)

It is easily one of the best and most plausible theories I've ever read.


----------



## CorruptedL (Jul 3, 2008)

What about Terry? The guy who was Batman Beyond.


----------



## Yamucha (Jul 3, 2008)

Bruce IS Batman, anything else is heresy ...


----------



## Castiel (Jul 3, 2008)

in Morrison run he reinstated most of the original finger/kane Joe Chill story, though I'm not sure he was killed, I think it got cut off after he told his thugs.  not sure, someone will have to check  

(in the original, Bats confronted him and said that CHill created Bats, but then let him live.  Chill told his thugs this and his thugs killed him for unleashing the bats on the world)


----------



## Arishem (Jul 3, 2008)

It was implied that Chill killed himself after his revelation, but the gun shot was never shown on panel. We and Bruce simply assume that Joe killed himself. Also, it was never hinted that any of his thugs were even remotely aware of the connection between the two.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 3, 2008)

oh my bad confused the two.

but in the original he does get executed for creating bats


----------



## CorruptedL (Jul 3, 2008)

I think Tim Drake would be best suited for Batman because, he has the qualitys. Plus, he has nothing else to do, and Dick is Nightwing.


----------



## lucky (Jul 3, 2008)

tim probably deserves to be batman more at this point.  Nightwing's alreayd out of batman's shadow and is his own man... becoming batman (even though he has more of a 'right' to be) is kind of a step backwards for him.  But tim's a lil too young IMO.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 3, 2008)

Post Identity Crisis Tim Drake = Batman Jr.  Just read the "First Blood" crossover with Batgirl


----------



## The Rook (Jul 10, 2008)

So anyone want to start speculating what Batman's metaphorical death will be?

I'm guessing it's been done to many times (in non-continuity), but this would probably be a good time to have Bruce kill the Joker.  It's hard to fully accept the Joker as one of the DCU's greatest villains as long as the conflict between the two lacks true fatal intent.  The notion of the two relying on each other to exist has already been played out enough.


----------



## mow (Jul 10, 2008)

^ my thoughs



mow said:


> Im hoping that will be the route Grant will take. Having bats "die" in the literal sense is so anti-climatic, espically with how RIP is plastered all around the page since before the arc started. too easy and grant is far too imaginative to go that route.
> 
> That leaves us with two choices: either batman is broken mentally or physically. again, the latter is too easy. been there, done that, you know?
> 
> ...


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Jul 10, 2008)

Dick Grayson is  Nightwing,but Tim Drake deserves to be the Batman


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 10, 2008)

I think Batman's original motivation is going to die. I believe that for some reason or another his view of his parents and their killer will shift, a lot, at the end of the arc. I believe Joe Chill will turn out to be Martha Wayne's scorned lover.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 10, 2008)

Well DC already played the whole "we'rek illing the Joker off" card, they even made it a major cross company crossover event that affected nearly every DCU book.  Then it was promptly forgotten.  Anyways in the event Nightwing beat Joker to death and when he was walking into the light, God bitchslapped him back to life.


also the first RIP tie in came out, Heart of Hush pt.1, was pretty good, also the flashback portion makes it a true sequal to Loeb's arc


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 10, 2008)

But the art could use some work in some areas.

Like Catwoman in the beginning.

What the heck? Ratface of a face.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 14, 2008)

indeed, Nyugen is hit or miss with me in terms of interiors, though I do like his cover work.

random trivia:
I'm not if people caught this, but the cop who investigates the death of Hush's dad was Slam Bradley, the original star of Detective Comics before Bill Finger and Bob Kane hijacked it and made it a Batman series


----------



## Boromir (Jul 14, 2008)

Jason Todd is god, and he would just kill all the criminals.


----------



## Ziko (Jul 17, 2008)

The Dark Knight really got me hyped with batman. So I'm wondering if someone here could recommend a good Batman comic I should get. I want good art and I want to story to involve Joker.

I don't want a whole arc, like 10 comics to get the whole story, I'm just wondering if there is one "book" I should get!


----------



## Castiel (Jul 17, 2008)

"The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told" is a must read, but sadly it is out of print


----------



## Castiel (Jul 21, 2008)

new solicits:




> *BATMAN #681*
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> Cover by Alex Ross
> ...






> *DETECTIVE COMICS #849*
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen
> A "Batman R.I.P." tie-in! In this penultimate chapter of the 5-part arc "Heart of Hush," Batman tears his way through Gotham City's underworld to reach his dangerous adversary. But after the Dark Knight learns what his childhood friend-turned-villain is really after, will Batman be able to survive what Hush plans next? The lives of both Bruce Wayne and Tommy Elliot come full circle in this story of beginnings and brutal endings!






> *NIGHTWING #149*
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Don Kramer & Jay Leisten
> Cover by Rags Morales
> ...






> *BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS #12*
> Written by Frank Tieri
> Art by Ryan Benjamin & Saleem Crawford
> Cover by Jim Calafiore
> ...



not related but it is an R.I.P. spin off:




> *ROBIN #179*
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art and cover by Freddie E. Williams II
> "Search for a Hero" continues as Robin tries to save one young boy from drowning in the tidal wave of gang warfare drenching a newly anarchic Gotham City. But why does Ragman not want the boy to be saved? And why is Spoiler paying a visit to the General?
> On sale October 15 * 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US


----------



## EvanNJames (Jul 21, 2008)

You do realize that Jason Todd got killed by The Joker, and therfore, in retrospect, considering his demise, cannot become Batman, yes?

Batman had already stated in the comic books that if he were to die he'd pass on the cape and cowl to Dick Grayson.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 22, 2008)

have you read a batman comic book in the last 4 years? Jason got brought back by the retcon punch and is now a psychotic vigilante killer. also Dick was batman in the early 90's and then stated that he would not accept the mantle again


----------



## Castiel (Jul 25, 2008)

ok so Robin #175 was the first ACTUAL RIP tie-in, it actually fits into the timeline of events instead of just passively mention 2 things like the Hush issue.

anyways I thought it was fine issue


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 27, 2008)

Andy Kubert.

*NEIL GAIMAN*

A Batman post-RIP homage to Alan Moore's "What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

I'm so ****ing sold.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 27, 2008)

released at CCI, according to Morrison this is a promo of "the last batman story", though I'm hoping he's using hyperbole


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 30, 2008)

Battle For The Cowl.


I wonder if R.I.P is going to be another Grant Morrison mindfuck. Bob Kane is the Black Glove, literally he came up with the idea for Batman to wear gloves. He's been in every Batman issue, it could be something like Kane took off Batman's character shield for this arc as the big revelation. Bruce finds out he's a comic book character and can't stand it, his whole life's been nothing but amusement for comic book fans. Back broken, sons lost, loves destroyed, and his parents killed. All for the sake of selling 32 page 4 color cartoons.


----------



## Kusogitsune (Jul 30, 2008)

Jean-Paul Valley should be the next Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 30, 2008)

Kusogitsune said:


> Jean-Paul Valley should be the next Batman.



the man fucked up 3 times as batman, he ain't getting a 4th shot


----------



## Castiel (Aug 4, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Robin #176_


----------



## Castiel (Aug 4, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #847_


----------



## Ronin (Aug 6, 2008)

As I continue to follow this story line it feels like my spirit is being broken.


----------



## Perverse (Aug 6, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm enjoying Batman RIP so far. But I think Tim is being a whiny little bitch at times. [These are initial impressions, I'm a Batman nub; I only started reading Batman at the start of the Batman RIP arc.]

Detective Comics was pretty interesting this week, nice little psychological profile on Hush, plus the Scarecrow made an appearance.

I'm still not decided whether Batman RIP will be complete awesome or complete suck, but it looks like it has potential.


----------



## Taxman (Aug 6, 2008)

^Tim's been a "whiny little bitch" since Kon and Steph died.  So this isn't anything new.  Except now he gets to be more whiny since Batman kept the stuff about Steph secret, the whole Damian stuff, and now Steph is keeping secrets from him.

Seriously started Batman at the beginning of this arc? O__O

Funny how the actual cover to Robin had Spoiler where the Penguin should be in that cover.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 6, 2008)

this week's Nightwing was great, but like DC it's loosely tied in at best

On Cover altering - they did that with DC 846, they added Catwoman on the actual cover.

also Tim has been slowly becoming Bruce since Identity Crisis

also nice that Scarecrow made a cameo, since not a lot of people remember that Scarecrow NAMED Hush


----------



## Gooba (Aug 7, 2008)

I haven't really been paying attention besides seeing Batman go all crazy, but if they really do retire Bruce, and Joker isn't integral to it, I'll be pissed.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 7, 2008)

Joker isn't the main villain, but he WILL play a role in the Climax.

In video game terms: He's basically the recurring character your fight that gets a power up immidiately before fighting the final boss

oh and I must say the whole concept of Hush and his crazy zombie hospital workers is hilarious


----------



## Taxman (Aug 7, 2008)

^he is going to be integral to this arc...we just (or at least I haven't really paid attention to solicitations) as to what his role is...we know he made an appearance in the first issue of RIP.  I think he broke out of arkham at the end by the club of villains but I can't quite remember.



> also Tim has been slowly becoming Bruce since Identity Crisis



that too



> also nice that Scarecrow made a cameo, since not a lot of people remember that Scarecrow NAMED Hush



agreed..."hush little baby don't say a word..."



> this week's Nightwing was great, but like DC it's loosely tied in at best



lol...I'd like to have an issue of Nightwing of what his mind is like now that he's locked in arkham...xD

I felt it was odd that in the issue of nightwing, Dick didn't know that Harvey was looking over gotham while they were away...yet in this month's issue of Robin, Tim knew about Harvey...or at least the significance of him turning back into two face.


----------



## Perverse (Aug 7, 2008)

Taxman said:


> ^Tim's been a "whiny little bitch" since Kon and Steph died.  So this isn't anything new.  Except now he gets to be more whiny since Batman kept the stuff about Steph secret, the whole Damian stuff, and now Steph is keeping secrets from him.
> 
> Seriously started Batman at the beginning of this arc? O__O
> 
> Funny how the actual cover to Robin had Spoiler where the Penguin should be in that cover.


Yeah, I'm a bit of a newbie to the whole comics thing.


Kilowog said:


> this week's Nightwing was great, but like DC it's loosely tied in at best
> 
> On Cover altering - they did that with DC 846, they added Catwoman on the actual cover.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Nightwing was probably better than either Detective Comics or Robin this week.

All of Hush's bullshit about how Bruce is a wanker, for lack of more sophisticated expression, is really annoying me. I dunno, to me all of his bitching about how Bruce is being a wanker seems really superficial and unrealistic to me. Like, he thinks Bruce's mum WANTED him to be withdrawn from that camp or whatever? Pfft, that's just stupidity IMO.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 7, 2008)

ok so Detective and Nightwing are loosely connected to the main plot and Robin directly ties in, I wonder what Outsiders will do when it's their turn to step up?


----------



## Ronin (Aug 7, 2008)

I can't see the outsiders being much of a tie in. The team was recently put together and they've only done what, one or two missions together? The only thing I could see coming from this issue is some minute, minimalistic detail that Batman told to Cassandra or Oliver, since they are the only ones I think Bruce would confide in, and Oliver is a long shot.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 7, 2008)

from solicits it seems like they're on a mission but Bruce didn't show up so the team is basically fucked over


----------



## mow (Aug 8, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> ok so Detective and Nightwing are loosely connected to the main plot and Robin directly ties in, I wonder what Outsiders will do when it's their turn to step up?



hopefully operating in another realm of existence and/or mostly having a role in FC. the though of green arrow and cassandra being in the same book initially made my heart melt. but damn it's just been disappointing thru and thru

aside from that classic CC walking around butt _nekked_. that was stellar.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 8, 2008)

I actually really like BatO, though it is awkward to read it since it's the last DCU Chuck Dixon story



Taxman said:


> ^he is going to be integral to this arc...we just (or at least I haven't really paid attention to solicitations).




here's the solicit for #680


> It's "Batman R.I.P." part 5 – and this issue features two events so monumental that one comic can barely contain them! First, Batman faces off against The Club of Villains. Then, *The Joker makes his stand, challenging the Dark Knight to the ultimate battle of wits. Will Batman survive* either of these threats – or could this be the end of Gotham City's greatest hero?


----------



## Ronin (Aug 8, 2008)

Anyone still wondering what Honor Jackson's story is? When we first see him he's talking about bat-fairies and later on when he's getting the bat-radia, he has red,yellow and purple fabric in his cart. 

I remember someone talking about it earlier but for some reason, he puzzles me the most, considering the knowledge he has of the bat legacy.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 8, 2008)

Bruce gave him the money he used to buy the drugs he killed himself in #676


----------



## Ronin (Aug 8, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Bruce gave him the money he used to buy the drugs he killed himself in #676



Really? when did that happen? I'll be back in 5, I gotta go read that again.

EDIT: I see it now.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 9, 2008)

Batman #679 solicit said:
			
		

> *Written by Grant Morrison; Art by Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea; Cover by Alex Ross; Variant Cover by Daniel*
> 
> "Batman R.I.P." — Part 4! Robin and Damian team up — yes, you read that right — to search for the missing Batman. Meanwhile, the Club of Villains — The Hunchback, Pierrot Lunaire, King Kraken, Charlie Caligula, Scorpiana and El Sombrero — rampage through Gotham City! This incredible fourth chapter of "Batman R.I.P." ends with the surprising return of a character you never thought!




*Spoiler*: _Batman #679 preview_


----------



## mow (Aug 10, 2008)

this is seriously, seriously gnarly.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 10, 2008)

shh, the city's talking


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 11, 2008)

Bat-Might!  pek


----------



## Arishem (Aug 11, 2008)

Technicolor Batman looks surprisingly badass.


----------



## akmandem69 (Aug 11, 2008)

I so miss the original.


----------



## knownastheone (Aug 11, 2008)

Batman as ANYONE other than Bruce is gross to even think about...they tried it before when Bruce broke his back and no...it was horrible...im wondering if after R.I.P. if this is the death of Bruce as Bruce and he'll be the Bat 24/7 i mean it dont look good for the man bein that hes all cracked out and dillusional thinkin he is the Batman from an alternate dimension but cmon now...NO one but NO one can hold the mantle as Batman except Bruce. BOTTOM LINE!


----------



## chrisp (Aug 12, 2008)

There's is only one Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 12, 2008)

technically there's been 3.  Azrael and Nightwing were both Batman at one point.


----------



## chrisp (Aug 12, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Joker isn't the main villain, but he WILL play a role in the Climax.
> 
> In video game terms: He's basically the recurring character your fight that gets a power up immidiately before fighting the final boss
> 
> oh and I must say the whole concept of Hush and his crazy zombie hospital workers is hilarious



What? Of course the Joker is Batman's archenemy.

Azrael and Nightwing? lol fodder
Wait...Robin is Nightwing? Why is he called that?

And Tim Drake is Robin? I'm confused. What's with all this fodder?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 12, 2008)

the first Robin, Dick Grayson, is Nightwing (he "graduated"), Tim Drake is the 3rd (and 5th) and current Robin.  They're not "fodder" they're both pretty damn capable, Nightwing is in the same neighborhood skillwise as Bats.  and Azrael is stronger than Batman, just weaker then him in terms of intelligence


----------



## chrisp (Aug 12, 2008)

Is this 'official'? Pretty weird. 

Bruce Wayne is Batman and Dick Grayson is Robin. That's how it's supposed to be, and always should be!!


----------



## Castiel (Aug 12, 2008)

Dick became Nightwing in the 80's


----------



## chrisp (Aug 12, 2008)

Well, he will always be the Boy Wonder to me. 

Nightwing sounds like a X-Men character.


----------



## Taxman (Aug 12, 2008)

should we tell him about Jason?


----------



## chrisp (Aug 12, 2008)

Jason? Hmmm..have DC comics no respect for Bob Kane anymore?


----------



## Taxman (Aug 12, 2008)

new writers...new editors-in-chiefs...new audiences....all these mean that things change.

Thing progress and the Golden Age of comics eventually got stale.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 12, 2008)

@ taxman: why not?

Jason todd was this punk kid who tried to jack the wheel from the batmobile, so Batman decided to make him the new robin after Dick left.  he was brutally murdered by the joker but was brought back to life by SBP, and is now a psycho killer vigilante


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 12, 2008)

I know I said I was gonna wait for the story to be complete before reading past issue one but guess what? I lied. 

RIP is really good and I love Tony Daniel's art. The Robin tie-ins were interesting because they actually tied in. Also, I love how Bruce thinks an old casset recorder is the Bat-Radia.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 12, 2008)

see m0 why it's good to take a chance 

also Grant Morrison should be dead by now from the ammount of drugs he's obvious taken by now y/n?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 12, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> see m0 why it's good to take a chance


I was gonna read it. Just not so soon. Now I have to be in agony for the next issue. 


Kilowog said:


> also Grant Morrison should be dead by now from the ammount of drugs he's obvious taken by now y/n?


signs point to yes.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 12, 2008)

well ya can always check to see the rest of the DC hush arc, I like the flashbacks

and don't worry the next RIP comes out tomorrow


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 12, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> well ya can always check to see the rest of the DC hush arc, I like the flashbacks
> 
> *and don't worry the next RIP comes out tomorrow*


*SWEET! *

I hadn't checked the new comics for this week yet.


----------



## chrisp (Aug 13, 2008)

Oh, Batman R.I.P. is a series? Is there a collection of all the issues?


----------



## Potentialflip (Aug 13, 2008)

Zarigani said:


> Is this 'official'? Pretty weird.
> 
> Bruce Wayne is Batman and Dick Grayson is Robin. That's how it's supposed to be, and always should be!!



Yeah it's been official for the past 20 years.

Dick grew tired of the role of Batman's young sidekick. Some differences here and there. They have a spat and Dick left and re-joined the Titans as Nightwing. As far as the name goes... it originated in the Superman mythos.

For the better part from there till now. They had a pretty rough relationship. They reconciled of course with the interjection of the butler and the new and current Robin Tim Drake.


----------



## chrisp (Aug 13, 2008)

But it's not the original Batman that's being portraited in the movies. That is what I like. 

It's okay to have some development, but as Doug says in 'The King of Queens', after the success of Coca Cola some idiot got the idea of trying to make it better. The product was New Coke, or sirupy pisswater. 

The original is always the best. And a new 'idea' is almost always phail. Multiple Robins sounds like phail to me. Why would they mess with the formula? Robin is Robin because his parents got killed. Batman is Batman because his parents got killed. I really don't like what the new stories is about.


----------



## mow (Aug 13, 2008)

have you even read the stories to come up with that hypothesis?

It really annoys me when comic book fans are so resistant to change. that's fucking stupid. Are you telling me you still want the old batman stories with pow And BOOM in them? the characters develop as new writers bring their own new prescriptive about the characters. Case and point Frank miller and Alan Moore who added such unprecedented  depth to the characters of Batman and Joker. are you teling me that changing the characters int oa much darker and realistic pov is bad, on the grounds that changing the original is bad idea and reminiscent of coca cola?

Dick Grayson growing our of the role of the wonder boy is so understandable and is probabily one of the best moves DC has ever made to advance the character of Dick and showcase his growth. He was always independent, always seeking his own role. Nightwing is now basically set up to be the new go to guy in DC universe, becuase the entire superhuman community knows him and trusts him.

Tim Drake asenction to the status of Robin came from the fact he loved it. He had all the capabilities for it, from intellectual and detective to physical. and Tim Drake father's was killed, so it still fits the critera of "original" that you are so painstakingly seeking.


----------



## chrisp (Aug 13, 2008)

Don't get me wrong, I will read the books Taxman recommended, because I like to look at myself as a Batman-fan. Maybe I'll change my mind after that. Who knows?


----------



## Taxman (Aug 13, 2008)

Zarigani said:


> Oh, Batman R.I.P. is a series? Is there a collection of all the issues?



Batman RIP is the batman "event" for the year.  It's a collection of issues of Batman with tie-ins issues from the series Detective Comics, Robin, Nightwing, and Batman and the Outsiders.  It's also has had a lot of set up dating back to when Morrison started writing the series and references many Silver Age stories.

Not all of "Batman: RIP" is out yet and I wouldn't necessarily recommend reading this as your "first few batman stories"


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2008)

Potentialflip said:


> Yeah it's been official for the past 20 years.
> 
> Dick grew tired of the role of Batman's young sidekick. Some differences here and there. They have a spat and Dick left and re-joined the Titans as Nightwing. As far as the name goes... it originated in the Superman mythos.
> 
> For the better part from there till now. They had a pretty rough relationship. They reconciled of course with the interjection of the butler and the new and current Robin Tim Drake.



he got fired, he didn't quit


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 13, 2008)

Great RIP issue.

Ah, Morrison. . . what next?


----------



## Ronin (Aug 13, 2008)

Comic book shop calls me and tells me 679 arrived, I go, I buy, I read, I pass out. Bruce is beyond genius level. The way he plans is beyond ridiculous. 


*Spoiler*: _679 Spoilers_ 



 Did he really create an alternate personality for himself that would activate upon him saying the secret phrase of zurr en arr? Is the villain really Thomas Wayne? If it is why does he look so young? Did he swim in a lazarus pit?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 13, 2008)

Ronin said:


> Comic book shop calls me and tells me 679 arrived, I go, I buy, I read, I pass out. Bruce is beyond genius level. The way he plans is beyond ridiculous.



It's Grant Morrison.

Batman was also crazy with prep-time in Morrison's run on JLA. 



> *Spoiler*: _679 Spoilers_
> 
> 
> 
> Did he really create an alternate personality for himself that would activate upon him saying the secret phrase of zurr en arr?




*Spoiler*: __ 



Not exactly.

How it works is that the alternate personality assumes control in the event that Bruce has been attacked psychologically to the point where Bruce's mind is mentally incapacitated (for example, insanity).

It's implied that the alternate personality is just the Batman aspect of Bruce Wayne.






> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Is the villain really Thomas Wayne? If it is why does he look so young? Did he swim in a lazarus pit?




*Spoiler*: __ 



The villain is not Thomas Wayne, but Dr. Simon Hurt, the doctor who presided over Batman's sensory deprivation experiment. Dr. Hurt is wearing a bat costume that was originally worn by Thomas Wayne at a costume party.

Said costume is taken from the Silver Age story "The Untold Legend of Batman"


----------



## Ronin (Aug 14, 2008)

^Thanks C.B.G. you cleared up much of what I was confused about. I can't imagine how this story will end. I just continue to look forward to it.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 14, 2008)

my highly thought out response:


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 14, 2008)

Bat-Radia... :rofl


----------



## Castiel (Aug 14, 2008)

"Bat-radia? That's just a shitty radio.  YOURE INSANE"


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 14, 2008)

Millar's Batman is the crazy Goddamn Batman.

Morrison's Batman is the freaking paranoid prep-timed Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 14, 2008)

It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 14, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you



Hardcore, nonetheless.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 14, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> "Bat-radia? That's just a shitty radio. YOURE INSANE"


I think that its so hilarious, especially since I've read the old comic where all of the craziness originated as good clean fun.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 14, 2008)

I am what Batman becomes when Bruce Wayne is away


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 14, 2008)

Don't forget your Bat-Radia. :rofl


----------



## Castiel (Aug 14, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Hardcore, nonetheless.



hmm, half expected you to bring up Tower of Babel or Brother Eye


----------



## plox (Aug 16, 2008)

say word batman dies?

i havn't been reading the comic for a long time now


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

new post R.I.P. solicit





> *BATMAN #682
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art by Lee Garbett
> Cover by Alex Ross
> ...




and just cause I feel like it:





> *BATMAN: CACOPHONY #1
> Written by Kevin Smith
> Art by Walt J. Flanagan & Sandra Hope
> Cover by Adam Kubert
> ...


----------



## Taxman (Aug 17, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



wait what?  Alfred?   T___T


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

indeed,


----------



## Arishem (Aug 17, 2008)

@Alfred


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

kindly fornicate with an iron shaft


----------



## Arishem (Aug 17, 2008)

Kilowog, just because I'm also from Bay Area doesn't mean I'm into that sort of thing.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

then why does your smilie hold up a rod and smile?


----------



## Arishem (Aug 17, 2008)

That's a stick, not a rod. I'm sure your well aware of the difference.  

Anyway, "last hours" is fairly vague. I wouldn't be too sure of anything yet, and we all know that Morrison loves to mislead his readers. He might've suggested that DC put it in just for the lulz.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

lawl SFhumor, never gets olddoes it eh oaklandboy

anywaysI'm hoping it's ahypothetical like Batman #666, but who knows.

though he DID appear in Requiem


----------



## Arishem (Aug 17, 2008)

Oakland is scary, well, at least in some places it is. Nothing inspires more faith in a city than seeing crack being sold on the street. I'm just glad not to live in that warzone. SF is my favorite BA city by the way.

08 hasn't been a good year for continuity in the DC, so Alfred's appearance in Requiem might not mean anything.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

yeah but Requiem was a major tie-in, I'dlike to imagine Morrison gave two craps enough to read it


----------



## Arishem (Aug 17, 2008)

Did you get my pm about CAC? It's teh best site ever for stocks.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

yeah I got it, i'll use it for my next set change, since my Maleev sig is teh win


----------



## Arishem (Aug 17, 2008)

Daredevil is the next Marvel series I plan to read. I've just always loved the look and idea behind the character.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

I'd recommend reading all of Frank Miller run + his miniseries, then read ALL of Volume 2 in order (skip the Bob Gale run), since aside from Bendis's brillaint run there's Kevin Smith,Ed Brubaker and David Mack win.  Also the Loeb/Sale Daredevil:Yellow mini. I know this adds up to over 200 issues but god damn is it worth it

on a semi related note, what do you guys think about Cacophony?  I read Smith's run of GA and thought the character of Onomotopeia was great.


----------



## Arishem (Aug 17, 2008)

I'll keep that in mind. As for Onomatopoeia, I haven't read the GA issues where the character is introduced. I put the comic on hold to finish some other series I had started before. He does look like a badass from his wiki page, though.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 17, 2008)

That Joker looks pretty lame. 

lol @ Alfred. The story was called R.I.P. so someone had to die.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

well the cover artist isn't drawing interiors so joker might look better.

also since the villain is Onomotopeia, I'm going to laugh so hard when he eventually yells out "biff", "bam", "pow" in a fight, you know Smith can't resist that


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 17, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> well the cover artist isn't drawing interiors so joker might look better.


That upsets me more to know that a Kubert drew something crappy. I remember when I was a kid, how badly I wanted to go to Kubert School of Arts (or whatever they call it these days) to learn to draw comics. >_>



Kilowog said:


> also since *the villain is Onomotopeia*, I'm going to laugh so hard when he eventually yells out "biff", "bam", "pow" in a fight, you know Smith can't resist that


Never heard of him.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Never heard of him.



Green Arrow villain. Cool character concept, but not really used as much outside his original writer.

Nearly killed Connor, last we saw.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> That upsets me more to know that a Kubert drew something crappy. I remember when I was a kid, how badly I wanted to go to Kubert School of Arts (or whatever they call it these days) to learn to draw comics. >_>



Joe Kubert (the dad) is the megastar artist the school is named after.  Also I honestly keep confusing his sons: Adam and Andy (damn you Joe for your damn alliteration  ) only thing I remember is that one did the Batman arc where Morrison gave Bruce a son, and one did the Superman arc where Johns gave Clark a surrogate son. 



> Never heard of him.





Created by Kevin Smith for his Green Arrow run (which was awesome ), aside from that only made minor cameos.

read the first 21 issues of Green Arrow then pretend it stopped existing


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 17, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> *Joe Kubert (the dad) is the megastar artist the school is named after.* Also I honestly keep confusing his sons: Adam and Andy (damn you Joe for your damn alliteration  ) only thing I remember is that one did the Batman arc where Morrison gave Bruce a son, and one did the Superman arc where Johns gave Clark a surrogate son.


I know who Joe Kubert is (remember how I said I wanted to go to the school? >_>) but I see you missed my point... Which was: bad art from Adam tarnishes the family legacy.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

Oh I got your point, I just wanted to come off a smartass


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 17, 2008)




----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2008)

ok so I looked it up:

Andy did Batman & Son
Adam did Superman: Last Son

Based on those 2, I prefer Andy but Adam is pretty good himself


----------



## Castiel (Aug 18, 2008)

more solicits

in all seriousness that is now my favorite Alex Ross painting EVER 

*RIP "tie ins":*



> *DETECTIVE COMICS #850
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen*
> ...





> *NIGHTWING #150
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Don Kramer and Jay Leisten
> Cover by Philip Tan
> ...





> *BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS #13
> Written by Frank Tieri
> Art by Ryan Benjamin & Saleem Crawford
> Cover by J. Calafiore & Jack Purcell*
> ...



*RIP Aftermath:*



> *BATMAN #683
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art by Lee Garbett
> Cover by Alex Ross
> ...





> *ROBIN #180
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art and cover by Freddie E. Williams II *
> As the Gotham youth gangs run rampant and the "blue-flu" sweeps the indignant Gotham police force, Robin faces off against a surprising yet familiar foe. And what role does Spoiler play in this opponent?s grand scheme?
> On sale November 19 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US




*just cause:*



> *BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL #23
> Written by Andrew Kreisberg
> Art by Scott McDaniel & Andy Owens
> Cover by Stephane Roux*
> ...





> *BIRDS OF PREY #124
> Written by Tony Bedard
> Art by Michael O'Hare & John Floyd
> Cover by Stephane Roux*
> ...


----------



## xingzup19 (Aug 18, 2008)

That cover by Ross is WIN!


----------



## Castiel (Aug 18, 2008)

so the solicits really make it seem like there is no more batman at all after RIP.  interesting...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 19, 2008)

I'm going to check out the Robin RIP aftermath. I got excited when I saw the Red Robin costume on the last page. Jason Todd is cool... except for in Countdown, but that never happened.


----------



## vicious1 (Aug 19, 2008)

Meh. That Ross cover is pretty much what he always does.


----------



## mow (Aug 19, 2008)

vicious1 said:


> Meh. That Ross cover is pretty much what he always does.



Absolutely fuck awesome artwork that everyone wants to have on their wall?

yeah, i understand what you mean. It really is underwhelming when someone consistently kicks everyones arse in sheer unparalleled fashion. That predictably mind blowing cunt. Im glad you and I are both agreed tho


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 19, 2008)

It's a blessing that Alex Ross is coming here to Toronto.

I've a shitload for him to sign.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 19, 2008)

mow said:


> Absolutely fuck awesome artwork that everyone wants to have on their wall?
> 
> yeah, i understand what you mean. It really is underwhelming when someone consistently kicks everyones arse in sheer unparalleled fashion. That predictably mind blowing cunt. Im glad you and I are both agreed tho



I agree with what this guy said


----------



## vicious1 (Aug 20, 2008)

I'm not saying it's not good. I just don't think it's one of his best. His covers lately have been a little uninspired IMO. The ones coming up are excellent. I just think he's done better. 

And when it comes to sequential art there are plenty that are better. In epic spread though he is certainly one of the best. 

So are the tie ins any good for RIP? I haven't read them.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 20, 2008)

they're all pretty good for the most part

only REAL TIE-IN to RIP are the Robin issues, which take place between 678 and 679, show his p.o.v. of the whole event, builds off of Dixon's run, and the events of 52.  reading them would enhance the experience of the robin scenes of 679 since it takes place right after the robin issues.


The Detective Comics "tie ins" occur right before 676 and it deals with the return of Hush, it's a TRUE sequel to the Loeb arc that in my opinion has the potential to completely surpass it in terms of plot (since Jim Lee >>>>>> Dustin Nyugen).  fully expands on Hush's back story and makes him seem like more of an actual character that belongs in the batman world.  also catwoman shows up

Nightwing is an interesting story some time before 678, Two-face "hires" him to protect an old girlfriend who's a witness in a case, pretty good, only one issue out but its my favorite of all the tie ins.


----------



## vicious1 (Aug 20, 2008)

I guess I'll check out Robin and Nightwing at some point. Never really cared for the Hush storyline but I might give it a look. 

I just want RIP to come out faster. Need final crisis tie ins to hold me over.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 20, 2008)

This story needs more bat-radia.


----------



## Ronin (Aug 20, 2008)

I just read Robin #177 and I'm wondering who Red Robin could be and what the hell is up with Stephanie at the end of the issue. The R.I.P. event is surely throwing me for a loop.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 20, 2008)

Ronin said:


> *I just read Robin #177 and I'm wondering who Red Robin could be* and what the hell is up with Stephanie at the end of the issue. The R.I.P. event is surely throwing me for a loop.



*Spoiler*: __ 




Jason Todd, the Robin that the Joker killed in the late 80's.


----------



## Ronin (Aug 20, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think so...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Red Robin saved Tim from Jason after Robin got shot trying to protect a civilian from Jason. Jason was firing his glock without looking and Tim protected the fella and  his cape protected them both, he still felt the impact though.

Jason even said "I was the Red Robin, who the hell is that?"


----------



## mow (Aug 20, 2008)

Red Robin? Is batman going to do the tango with Kingdom Come?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 20, 2008)

Ronin said:


> I don't think so...
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Really? Cool. What issue was that in? I haven't been keeping up with Robin.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 20, 2008)

the issue that came out today.  I'm confused by that and the stuff with SPoiler and the assassin from WIllingham's run at the end.  I want answers 

anyways as always I enjoy the bits in Robin's high school, and the reappearance of Robin's friend Ives who has apparently stopped his chemotherapy (his hair is growing back in)


----------



## Ronin (Aug 20, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Really? Cool. What issue was that in? I haven't been keeping up with Robin.



Robin #177



Kilowog said:


> the issue that came out today.  I'm confused by that and the stuff with SPoiler and the assassin from WIllingham's run at the end.  I want answers
> 
> anyways as always I enjoy the bits in Robin's high school, and the reappearance of Robin's friend Ives who has apparently stopped his chemotherapy (his hair is growing back in)



*Spoiler*: __ 




I'm confused about Spoiler also, why the hell is she hiring Scarab to kill Robin?

 My next question is, Is she referring to Tim, maybe she's talking about Red Robin. From the solicit you posted for Robin #180, RR beats the crap oughta Tim so maybe she knows something we dont, maybe RR is a villain or some corrupt individual and she was trying the handle the problem before it gets out of hand.


----------



## Ronin (Aug 21, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #679 Spoiler_ 



I was wondering something about Batman. Since Batman described his current psyche as Batman without Bruce Wayne, does that mean that he's willing to kill now?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 23, 2008)

I don't know if I said this already but Geoff Johns apparently crams in as many hints about the future of the Batman franchise as he could in *Action Comics #864*.  I'd highly recommend it not only for that, but also for being a damn awesome single issue and also serving as a loose prelude to Legions of 3 World


----------



## Castiel (Aug 27, 2008)

well in case people have missed the links posted in 2 other threads, here's the bits Morrison said about R.I.P. during his big interview with IGN



> *IGN Comics: I'm sure fans will be happy to hear that. So let's jump over to Batman RIP for a bit. From this most recent issue, it really seems like you're serious about shaking the foundation of the Batman mythos to its core. I think that not only fans, but other comic book writers in general, would be interested to learn how you went about convincing a company like DC to hand over their most prized possession and let you do what you pleased to it?
> 
> Morrison:* Fortunately for me, I didn't have to convince anybody. That's what's cool about this one. Remember also that, despite my inexplicable reputation among certain fans as a 'difficult' writer, I'm actually one of the most successful people in the comics business and have been for a long time. I wrote what's still the highest-selling original graphic novel ever, I wrote DC's biggest selling book for years with JLA, I wrote Marvel's most popular X-title.
> 
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Aug 31, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Nightwing #148 preview_


----------



## Taxman (Aug 31, 2008)

so Nightwing continues to have really nothing to do with RIP...xDD


----------



## Castiel (Sep 2, 2008)

Indeed, this is Red Sky Storytelling at it's finest.

anyways:




*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #848 preview_


----------



## Taxman (Sep 4, 2008)

lol...so Nightwing's actual tie in to RIP is that "batman is gone and I'm no longer in arkham"

All we get is a simple "so how was your time in arkham" statement and that's how it connects...


----------



## Castiel (Sep 5, 2008)

...  Wow Hush is hard core and now the top of my most hated Batman villains list.  Seriously that is *fucked up*.


----------



## Taxman (Sep 5, 2008)

At least this arc is getting people to actually care about Hush.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah I'm loving what Dini is doing with the character.  Honestly *if people aren't reading this mainly for not liking his previous two appearances, they should slap themselves till they bleed.*

Also at this point I think its safe to say that Nightwing doesn't tie into RIP but is more of an aftermath issue.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 5, 2008)

Ha.

I knew that what Batman did to Hush at the end of Gotham Knights would one day come to bite him back.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 5, 2008)

yeah that was a dick move


----------



## Castiel (Sep 13, 2008)

hell yes the king has returned (look at underline)



> *DETECTIVE COMICS #851
> Written by Dennis O’Neil
> Art by Guillem March
> Cover by Guillem March
> ...


----------



## Stan Lee (Sep 14, 2008)

Dick for sure.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 14, 2008)

Dennis O'Neil.

Booya.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 15, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Robin #178 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Sep 15, 2008)

rest of the solicits





> *BATMAN #684
> Written by Dennis O'Neil
> Art by Guillem March
> Cover by Alex Ross
> ...







> *BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS #14
> Written by Frank Tieri
> Art by Ryan Benjamin & Saleem Crawford
> Cover by J. Calafiore & Jack Purcell*
> ...







> *ROBIN #181
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art and cover by Freddie E. Williams II *
> Red Robin is revealed, and Anarky is unleashed in Gotham City! A daring jailhouse rescue rips the GCPD apart, forcing the Spoiler to live up to her name! Plus, Oracle and Jason Bard team up again! And while all this is going on, where is Robin? Maybe he's M.I.A.... or is it R.I.P.?
> On sale December 17 * 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US








> *NIGHTWING #151
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Don Kramer & Jay Leisten
> Cover by Georges Jeanty*
> ...


----------



## Arishem (Sep 15, 2008)

Anarky looks awesome. Heh, I thought DC might do an anarchy-themed villain after The Dark Knight.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 15, 2008)

It's all because of those 4 bastards -- ESPECIALLY BEECHEN, THAT UTTER FUCKTARD -- that literally gave the DCU a solid reason to hate on Cassandra Cain. . .


----------



## Taxman (Sep 15, 2008)

lol...Anarchy reminds me of Psycho Pirate


----------



## Castiel (Sep 16, 2008)

Anarky was one of the more interesting DC villains, I'm displeased that he hasn't appeared in like a decade.


----------



## Espada Grimmjaw (Sep 16, 2008)

I dunno, I just can't see anyone but Bruce be Batman


----------



## Kameil (Sep 16, 2008)

Anarchy was a fun villain to see.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 17, 2008)

I still wanna know who Black Glove is.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 18, 2008)

Denny O'Neil talks to both CBR and Newsarama


----------



## Castiel (Sep 28, 2008)

Batbooks for October

10 | 1 | 2008
BATMAN #680 *(RIP MAIN STORY)* 
THE BATMAN STRIKES! #50 
NIGHTWING #149  *(RIP AFTERMATH)*


10 | 8 | 2008
BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS VOL. 1 TPB _(first half of Dixon Run)_
BATMAN BLACK AND WHITE VOL. 2: - NEW EDITION TPB
BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL #22 *(NEW JOKER ARC)*
BIRDS OF PREY: METROPOLIS OR DUST TPB
DETECTIVE COMICS #849 *(Heart of Hush Part 4)*
TWO-FACE YEAR ONE #2 (OF 2) 


10 | 15 | 2008
BATGIRL #4 (OF 6) 
BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS #12 *(RIP TIE-IN)*
BATMAN CHRONICLES VOL. 6 TPB
ROBIN #179 *(RIP AFTERMATH)*
SUPERMAN AND BATMAN VS. VAMPIRES AND WEREWOLVES #1 (OF 6) 


10 | 22 | 2008
BATMAN: GOTHAM AFTER MIDNIGHT #6 (OF 12) 
BIRDS OF PREY #123 
CATWOMAN: CRIME PAYS TPB _(FINAL TPB)_
JOKER OGN HC *(from makers of LL: Man of Steel)*
SUPERMAN/BATMAN #53 
SUPERMAN/BATMAN: THE SEARCH FOR KRYPTONITE TPB


10 | 29 | 2008
NIGHTWING: FREEFALL TPB _(Beginning of Tomasi Run)_
SUPERMAN AND BATMAN VS. VAMPIRES AND WEREWOLVES #2 (OF 6)


----------



## mow (Sep 29, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> JOKER OGN HC *(from makers of LL: Man of Steel)*



ive been hyped out about this since the cover got posted. LL:MoS is one of my fav comic books of all time and i know i will love the joker HC equally as much


----------



## Castiel (Sep 29, 2008)

100% agreed.

so RIP #5 comes out in 3 days, what KRAZY stuff will that Morrison cook up this time? 

also posting what should be obvious to everyone by now


			
				Geoff Johns said:
			
		

> Following the "Batman R.I.P." story, the relationship between Superman and Batman will be markedly different.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 30, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #680 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Sep 30, 2008)

*NOTE:* this takes place BEFORE the above




*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #849 Preview_


----------



## Castiel (Sep 30, 2008)

*NOTE:* this takes place AFTER both of the above




*Spoiler*: _Nightwing #149 Preview_


----------



## Castiel (Oct 1, 2008)

/read #680

/head explodes


----------



## The Wanderer (Oct 1, 2008)

Spoilers, pretty please ?


----------



## Castiel (Oct 1, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _IM NOT MAKINGANY OF THIS UP_ 



batman and Bat-might approach the Black Glove's HQ.  BM tells Batman that he cannot go with him and that this is one journey he has to finish himself.

Talia and Damian save Gordon in wayne manor.

Joker scars the doctor who wants to operate on Dick.

Joker and Batman have their epic final battle.  Joker then slices his wn toungue in half (like a snake) and starts going on about batman being foolish.

Jezebel is in a room where poisonous rose petals fall on her and will kill her.

Batman runs over and breaks the wall then collapses.

Jezebel is evil and "batman has surrendered"


----------



## The Wanderer (Oct 1, 2008)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kilowog again."

I owe you one, don't worry. 

But what do you mean with the first part of the last sentence ?


----------



## Castiel (Oct 1, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



when batman goes to save jezebel, he sees her face and she has this evil expression like if this was all part of her plan


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 1, 2008)

Wasn't as surprising as I hoped. I was right in two things.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 1, 2008)

Nightwing #149 was awesome as hell, if you even remotely like two-Face you will read this arc. k


----------



## Taxman (Oct 1, 2008)

I still think there's one more twist when it comes to the Black Glove left in RIP...

I mean seriously...

*Spoiler*: __ 



if no one saw Jezebel was going to be evil, then someone needs to learn what the name "Jezebel" means...Grant wasn't exactly subtle with that one...xD


----------



## Castiel (Oct 1, 2008)

I kinda like how Two-Face and Harvey basically played a game of wits against each other and how after two-Face wins, harvey becomes dominant.

and evil.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 5, 2008)

spoiler that you can glimpse the final reveal


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 5, 2008)

​ 
You know what, Grant Morrison, we don't fucking get it. I mean seriously, what the hell man?! This is exactly like when Xorn became Magneto and he said (paraphrazed) "ZOMG gaiz! I can't believe you didn't know it was me. My poweres had nothing to do with magnetizm, and I was held captive in a Chinese prison and I had 'a star for a mind' what ever the hell that means. You guys are so stupid." It made absolutely NO freaking sense. And RIP makes less sense. If it weren't for Tony Daniel (and the incredibly amusing Bat-Radia) I wouldn't read this arc. I'm fell less confident about the lass issues of Final Crisis now.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 5, 2008)

I just noticed Harvey killed without flipping his coin 0_o


----------



## Ral (Oct 5, 2008)

I think Jason Todd or Grayson could be the next Batman, they both have talent.


----------



## Kameil (Oct 5, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> I just noticed Harvey killed without flipping his coin 0_o



I just regurgitated.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 5, 2008)

Kameil said:


> I just regurgitated.



I think its a fascinating way to show how truly different Harvey Dent is from Two-Face.


----------



## Kameil (Oct 5, 2008)

If you put it that way then yesh it is.


----------



## Public Enemy (Oct 5, 2008)

Alfred the butler


----------



## Kameil (Oct 5, 2008)

Alfred wipes everyone's rectum once.


----------



## Deviate (Oct 6, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> ​
> You know what, Grant Morrison, we don't fucking get it. I mean seriously, what the hell man?! This is exactly like when Xorn became Magneto and he said (paraphrazed) "ZOMG gaiz! I can't believe you didn't know it was me. My poweres had nothing to do with magnetizm, and I was held captive in a Chinese prison and I had 'a star for a mind' what ever the hell that means. You guys are so stupid." It made absolutely NO freaking sense. And RIP makes less sense. If it weren't for Tony Daniel (and the incredibly amusing Bat-Radia) I wouldn't read this arc. I'm fell less confident about the lass issues of Final Crisis now.




I agree....I have no fucking clue what Morrison is trying to hint at / reveal here.


----------



## Kameil (Oct 6, 2008)

Morrison will someday offer heroin to the greatest of comic book viewers.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 7, 2008)

With Morrison, usually nothing really makes sense until he concludes the storyline.

And even then, multiple re-readings are needed.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 8, 2008)

Heart of Hush continues to be excellent, _I'm even enjoying more than the main RIP story._

also this arc (specificalyl this issue) really convinces me that Hush is an "Arkham" Batman villain and not a "Blackgate" villain.

also I liked how we get a flashback to the ending of Gotham Knights and finally see how the Joker/Hush standoff ended, and how Dini makes it an core issue in his arc.

almost makes me want to forgive Dini for Countdown.

... almost


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 8, 2008)

I wonder how Hush would react to the Black Glove's plans for Bruce. . .

Assuming, of course, that he survives the next issue.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 8, 2008)

he appears in the Battle of the Cowl promo.

... but so does Selina.

methinks Hush will get the Black Mask treatment


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 8, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> he appears in the Battle of the Cowl promo.
> 
> ... but so does Selina.
> 
> methinks Hush will get the Black Mask treatment



Personally, I'd like to see Hush vs. the Black Glove.


----------



## Kameil (Oct 8, 2008)

Hush encountering the Black glove would all be too much fun.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 9, 2008)

Truthfully, there can be this "War on Batman" storyline.

Heck, villains that really hate Batman and/or oppose him are:

- Joker
- Ra's al Ghul
- Hush
- Black Glove

Imagine if those 4 decided to destroy Batman, but have to fight one another in order to do so.

Heck, I'd thrown Bane in there if he hadn't outgrown his Knightfall purpose.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 9, 2008)

that would be epic.

and don't remind me of Bane  after being such a devious mastermind in Knightfall every writer since has gone out of their way to nerf him.  though he does have some moments like in Legacy, and some bits of light shone in his NML appearances.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 11, 2008)

newest Batman Confidential was pretty good.  tells the story of what happened right after Batman beat the Joker for the first time.  shows him get booked, fingerprinted and then try to break out


----------



## Castiel (Oct 13, 2008)

POST RIP




*Spoiler*: _Robin #179 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Oct 14, 2008)

POST RIP




*Spoiler*: _Batman & The Outsiders #12 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Oct 18, 2008)

Tomasi is now involved with Outsiders, book will probably stop sucking





> *BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS SPECIAL #1
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art and cover by Adam Kubert & John Dell
> Variant cover by Adam Kubert *
> ...


----------



## Green Lantern (Oct 18, 2008)

That cover looks sick!


----------



## Kameil (Oct 18, 2008)

*Saves Cover* Oh yes.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 18, 2008)

Tomasi will most likely take Cassandra off Outsiders.

Now where will she be. . .


----------



## Castiel (Oct 18, 2008)

JLE revival time?


----------



## Kameil (Oct 18, 2008)

The edge of his mind?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 18, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> JLE revival time?



Cassandra Cain as Kasumi again?

FUCK YES.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 18, 2008)

as much as I would love that to happen, Kelly is working on BRAND NEW DAY and has a shitload of Image books.

also there is already the McDuffie and Robinson leagues

but we can always dream can't we?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 19, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> as much as I would love that to happen, Kelly is working on BRAND NEW DAY and has a shitload of Image books.
> 
> also there is already the McDuffie and Robinson leagues
> 
> but we can always dream can't we?



Yes, we can. Yes, we can. . .


----------



## Castiel (Oct 20, 2008)

january solicits, also Faces of Evil tie ins







> *DETECTIVE COMICS #852
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs
> Cover by Andrew Robinson*
> ...







> *BATMAN #685
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs
> Cover by Alex Ross*
> ...







> *NIGHTWING #152
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Don Kramer & Jay Liesten
> Cover by Brian Stelfreeze*
> ...







> *ROBIN #182
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Freddie E. Williams II Cover by Brian Stelfreeze*
> 
> ...


----------



## Kameil (Oct 20, 2008)

Excellent Ra's stepping in the game. 

CatWoman cover > Ra's > Hush > Anarky


----------



## Castiel (Oct 20, 2008)

Nightwing vs Ra's Al Ghul ... interesting idea.

Guess it makes sense since Tomasi's first arc was about Talia creating zombies to protect her against her father (since she betrayed him in Death/Maidens AND Resurrection)

Also since it's very likely Dick will be the new bats I guess it would make sense to pit him against a bunch of A-list bat enemies (since he just defeated Two-Face)


----------



## Kameil (Oct 20, 2008)

I suppose the Joker would be involved in this somehow but in actuality he isn't involved perhaps because the demented fool is maybe being overly used?


----------



## Castiel (Oct 20, 2008)

well the final confrontation of RIP takes place IN Arkham.  In BATO they said that Joker is subdued and promptly sent back to his cell at the end of RIP.


----------



## Kameil (Oct 20, 2008)

Ahh I see however yes this Nightwing match-up will bring Dick's full potential out against Ra's.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 20, 2008)

also iirc Dick has never actually faced Ra's before, most of Batman's great confrontations with Ra's were mostly solo.


----------



## Kameil (Oct 20, 2008)

I'm excited to see this match-up already wonder how Dick will prevail through this one? He slipped through Two-face with ease.


----------



## thebigfanofnaruto (Oct 20, 2008)

I don,t care about this that much.......


----------



## Castiel (Oct 20, 2008)

Kameil said:


> I'm excited to see this match-up already wonder how Dick will prevail through this one? He slipped through Two-face with ease.



you call being shot "slipped through with ease"?


----------



## Kameil (Oct 20, 2008)

Somewhat yes I do.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 21, 2008)

for people curious about the Gaiman arc since the Hush story is taking the Januaty spots.

Link 3



			
				Neil Gaiman said:
			
		

> What can I tell you about the Batman thing?” Gaiman mused. “It is a two-parter, it’s being written by me, it’s being drawn by Andy Kubert… I’ve seen the first thirteen pages so far, and the artwork is absolutely lovely, making me feel almost guilty for putting word balloons on it. And my favorite bit so far is the conversation between Selina Kyle and Joe Chill.”
> 
> Gaiman anticipates the issues will be out in February.
> 
> “It’s one of those things where they phoned me up and said, ‘This is what we’d like you to do,’” Gaiman started to say. “It wasn’t even ‘This is what we’d like you to do,’ it was, ‘This is what’s going to be happening with Batman. Would you like to write the last issue of Batman and the last issue of Detective Comics?’ And when they make an offer like that, you say yes.”


----------



## mow (Oct 22, 2008)

my loins grow moist


----------



## Castiel (Oct 30, 2008)

> *7) We’ll get back to the generational heroes in a moment, but first, earlier, when you were talking about Brave and the Bold - Batman in those stories will be Bruce Wayne, which somewhat flies in the face of what’s been teased, or what readers have been led to believe is coming at the end of “Batman R.I.P.” Let’s talk about post “R.I.P.” – you’ve dropped the hint about “The Battle for the Cowl...” That seems to indicate that Bruce Wayne is not around, or the role of Batman is up for grabs... *
> 
> DD: Let’s put it this way: the cowl is there, and people are battling for it. [laughs] I never said that Bruce isn’t fighting for it. The “battle” aspect of it seems to suggest that there are other people who are interested in the mantle of Batman...and at this particular point, we’re addressing what the cowl stands for, and what the name stands for. Is it just the person? Is it an ideal? Is it an icon? Is it something that needs to continue, or is it something that goes away with the man who is with it?
> 
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2008)

I think after "Last Days of Gotham" (December) I'll probably be dropping this series. The whole wierdness of RIP is really starting to take it's toll and I can't seem to care about Battle of the Cowl anymore... since it'll, most likely, be Bruce Wayne who wins.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2008)

I'm sticking on, January is Hush aftermath and that arc has been FANTASTIC in Detective (better than RIP methinks) and Febuary is Neil Gaiman 

I'm ambivalent about "Battle of the Cowl" though since there is actually a fair possibility that Bruce may not in fact win, also Morrison is NOT writting it.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2008)

I already knew that Morrison isn't going to be writing on Batman until next fall, but I don't care. I still like Batman as a whole (Gotham, villains and sidekicks) but not enough to want to read past December.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2008)

well personally couldn't disagree more but I'm simply going to be content to enjoy while you miss out instead of jamming it down your throat like always


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2008)

I'll just stay posted on the general scheme of things (solicits interviews and whatnot), and if it sounds interesting enough I'll check out the arc/issue but it's not on my read list anymore.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2008)

what about Nightwing/Robin?  for me Robin is meh, but Nightwing is 

Ra's Al Ghul, nuff said


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2008)

I didn't say I was going to stop reading bat books altogether, just Batman and I never liked Detective, so I'll continue not reading that one. lol

I'll read the Robin "Search for a Hero" story once it comes to a close. As for Nightwing... Ra's Al Ghul's albino son, nuff said.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2008)

well it's stil the same Ra's just you know in a crappy body 

also what's your problem with Detective?  it's like the old 90's tv show but in comics form, all of it is just a string of one-shots like that Christmas Joker one

also the Hush arc is epic upon awesome upon greatness


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2008)

I dunno, I just never liked Detective as a whole. Kinda like how I, for the most part, hated Uncanny X-Men and loved X-Men. It's the same premise, same characters, one was just more appealing. 

Also, movie Ra's is win.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> I dunno, I just never liked Detective as a whole. Kinda like how I, for the most part, hated Uncanny X-Men and loved X-Men. It's the same premise, same characters, one was just more appealing.



so it's just plain name prejudice?  because the two titles switched story telling methods for years.  one year Batman would be all done in one and Detective would be the long complex arcs and some years they'd basically be just one long book that came out twice a month.

the cycle has just gone back to Batman being long stories and Detective being one-shots

that being said currently:

Detective>Batman (slightly)


also you have to agree that Christmas Joker from Detective>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morrison Joker from Batman 



> Also, movie Ra's is win.



Read *Birth of the Demon *(Ra's Al Ghul's "Killing Joke") and then you'll appreciate the sheer awesomeness of comics Ra's.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2008)

I just don't like non-Batman tie in Detective Comics. You'd figure out the source of my Superman hatred before you would make sense of me not liking Detective Comics. 

Also, I have read Birth of the Demon several times. It is win, so was BTAS Ras but movie Ras was teh winnest.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> I just don't like *non-Batman tie in Detective Comics.* You'd figure out the source of my Superman hatred before you would make sense of me not liking Detective Comics.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2008)

You know, the ones that don't tie-in with Batman the book, not Batman the character.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2008)

that's just plain odd.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2008)

I'm an odd kinda guy. Remember how I broke up with my girlfriend for teh lulz so I could focus on school?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2008)

oh yeah lulz

but meh I still like Detective better


and on the superman thing, I;t's kinda funny to see how it's sorta random who likes and dislikes superman, I mean Supes is Ennis' favorite Superhero which is just plain odd given how he writes Homelander in the Boys[/infinitelulz]


----------



## Castiel (Nov 5, 2008)

ok so this kinda adds one more tally on my "why I think dick will step up" list


----------



## The Wanderer (Nov 5, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> oh yeah lulz
> 
> but meh I still like Detective better
> 
> ...



You sure he was serious when he said that ? Not sarcasm or double-entendres whatsoever ? :amazed


----------



## Castiel (Nov 5, 2008)

Of all the DC character, Superman was the only one treated completely with respect in Hitman and the entire JLA/Hitman special seemed like Ennis trying to put into words hy he loves Superman so much even though he dislikes superheroes in general.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 6, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> ok so this kinda adds one more tally on my "why I think dick will step up" list


That also added to my "why I think Tim would do it" list. Plus, I don't wanna see Starfire parading around Gotham possibly blowing Batman's (Grayson) cover.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 6, 2008)

conclusions to *Heart of Hush* and *Freefall* come out wednesday as supersized double issues


----------



## WarriorS (Nov 7, 2008)

Tim won't do it. If he becomes Batman in the future, he already _knows_ he'll become a dick and surrender his principles for "justice". If they follow what Johns (And later, McKeever) has done in _Teen Titans_, he should never become Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 7, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #850 preview_


----------



## mow (Nov 8, 2008)

cover art is so much secks.


----------



## Green Poncho (Nov 8, 2008)

Where's Terry on that poll?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 8, 2008)

Methinks Terry isn't from the same universe... or hadn't been born yet.


----------



## Green Poncho (Nov 8, 2008)

Earth-?? is destroyed, Terry ends up on New Earth/Earth-1 sees how fail the rest of the Batman's potential replacements are, and decides to take up the mantle in the memory of both Bruces.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 8, 2008)

"Detective Comics" writer Paul Dini created Terry and thought it best to not cross the universes.  Which is odd cause he wrote Countdown and that shit happened all the time.

Unless Dini was aware Countdown sucked and wanted to preserve his own creations while fucking everything else.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 11, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Nightwing #150 preview_


----------



## The Wanderer (Nov 11, 2008)

Is this the same Nightwing who acted like a dick to Babs and Charlie  in the Batgirl series ?

I'm beginning to see why CBG hates Beechen . . .

EDIT: And  at the opening scene


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 11, 2008)

Are the appendant bat-books being canceled before or after Battle of the Cowl?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

The Wanderer said:


> Is this the same Nightwing who acted like a dick to Babs and Charlie  in the Batgirl series ?



Tomasi is a 



LIL_M0 said:


> Are the appendant bat-books being canceled before or after Battle of the Cowl?



last issues ship in Feb, BftC is more or less confirmed for Marchish.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

DiDio on recent cancellation + some news



> *1: Let’s start with the big news from last week, that is, the cancellation of Nightwing, Robin and Birds of Prey. Looking at the sales estimates on those three, they’re not the lowest selling titles DC has going, and they serve a purpose in the DC Universe and Batman’s world, so what’s the deal? There are rumors and thoughts that they are going to be replaced, so is there any hope to be offered? *
> 
> 
> Dan DiDio: What we see on those particular books given where Batman is heading and the stories in the Batman universe are going, the stories that were taking place in Robin, Nightwing and Birds of Prey have all run their natural course, and have definite conclusions as part of the “Last Rites” stories following Batman R.I.P. That’s one of the reasons why those books came to an end.
> ...


----------



## Taxman (Nov 12, 2008)

*was satisfied with Heart of Hush

*also lol @ the tumbler being in the batcave


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

more DiDIo



> *12: Another question that came up from the readers – what’s going on with Greg Rucka? He has Final Crisis: Revelations going on...and there’ve been comments that he has stuff in the works. But that’s been said for a while...*
> 
> 
> DD: We’re going to see Greg Rucka’s return to the Batman family post Battle for the Cowl.
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 12, 2008)

It sucks that Robin is getting canceled, I was just starting to like that character and comic book.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2008)

Taxman said:


> *was satisfied with Heart of Hush
> 
> *also lol @ the tumbler being in the batcave


Batman: the Animated Series' batmobile is there too.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

Nightwing vs Two-Face was appropriately epic. 




LIL_M0 said:


> It sucks that Robin is getting canceled, I was just starting to like that character and comic book.



100% agreed and I quadruple the sentiment when it comes to Nightwing.

Birds of Prey on the other hand was on a downcrub so I'm not that dissapointed in that.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2008)

Nightwing was alright. A big Two-face vs Nightwing fight to send off the series makes sense, but Two-face's big plan struck me as too over-the-top. It didn't really make sense to me coming off of the plot thread in the previous issues with Two-face's girlfriend. I think I would have preferred to see Two-face and Nightwing face off in a more personal way.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 12, 2008)

^^ Nightwing's send off is gonna be versus Ra's Al Ghul. 

I kinda like Nightwing, never in his own book though... weird, and I always thought BoP was uber-meh.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

> I kinda like Nightwing, never in his own book though... weird, and I always thought BoP was uber-meh.



Understandable since Dick's personal book was meh and fail for so many years.

agreed on BoP, it had some really good issues under Dixon and Simone but on the whole the book never really did it for me much.



LIL_M0 said:


> ^^ Nightwing's send off is gonna be versus Ra's Al Ghul.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2008)

This is the last issue that actually stars Nightwing though, isn't it? The villain issues sound like they're more to set up future plot threads and so on. The current stories in Robin and Nightwing definitely seem more like the 'ends' of their series, with Nightwing facing Two-face and Robin dealing with a new Lynx and other robin related things.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

not really, "Faces of Evil" is basically just announceing that all covers follow a theme.

oh and O'Neil's two issue arc in DC/Batman is actually about Nightwing


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2008)

The stories themselves are supposed to be about the villains too.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 12, 2008)

Othrys12 said:


> This is the last issue that actually stars Nightwing though, isn't it? The villain issues sound like they're more to set up future plot threads and so on. The current stories in Robin and Nightwing definitely seem more like the 'ends' of their series, with Nightwing facing Two-face and Robin dealing with a new Lynx and other robin related things.


Oh, I understand what you meant now. I wonder what they're gonna do with NW for 2 more issues (excluding Faces of Evil) ?

 I think Robin "Search for a hero" continues until the book's end... doesn't it?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

last issue will be 183.  last solicited issue was 182 and that had Anarky on the front.  so it'll either continue to the end or the last issue will be an epilogue


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 12, 2008)

> Battle for the Cowl will be written and drawn by Tony Daniel




I'm not familiar with anything he's written but i love his art in Batman R.I.P. I think I might continue to read Batman after all. Also, I'm glad that Battle for the Cowl will be (presumably) limited to two books, DC and Batman. Reading R.I.P. tie-ins that never tied in (Outsiders, Nightwing) was kinda frustrating. So some good comes from the other books being canceled.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

I blame the editors

Though Outsiders is going to be written by Tomasi which means it will be epic 

also according to CBDB, Daniel has written:


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Adrenalynn: Weapon of War (1999)

TPB - 'Adrenalynn: Weapon Of War'
#1
#2
#2 (B)
#3
#4
#4 (Variant Cover)

 F5 (2000)

Preview
TPB
#1
#1 (Alternate Cover)
#1 (European Edition)
#1 (Platinum Foil Variant)
#2
#3
#4

 F5 Origin (2001)

#0 - 'F5 Origin'
#0 (Variant) - 'F5 Origin'
#1

 Frank Frazetta Fantasy Illustrated (1998)

#1

 HumanKind (2004)

#1 - 'All Roads Lead to (New) Rome, Part 1 of 5'
#1 (Greg Land Cover) - 'All Roads Lead to (New) Rome, Part 1 of 5'
#1 (Marc Silvestri) - 'All Roads Lead to (New) Rome, Part 1 of 5'
#1 (Wizard World Chicago exclusive) - 'All Roads Lead to (New) Rome, Part 1 of 5'
#2 - 'All Roads Lead to (New) Rome, Part 2 of 5'
#3 - 'All Roads Lead To (New) Rome, Part 3'
#4 - 'All Roads Lead To (New) Rome, Part 4'
#5 - 'All Roads Lead To (New) Rome, Part 5'

 Silke (2001)

TPB - 'Silke'
#1 - 'Act 1: Playing God'
#1 (Dynamic Forces Exclusive Edition) - 'Act 1: Playing God'
#1A (Variant cover 1) - 'Act 1: Playing God'
#2 - 'Act 2: The Chameleon'
#2 (Humberto Ramos Variant Cover) - 'The Chameleon'
#3 - 'Act 3: Blood and Bullets'
#3 (Regular Cover) - 'Blood and Bullets'
#4 - 'Act 4: A Hostile Takeover'
#4 (Variant Cover) - 'A Hostile Takeover'

 The Tenth (1997)

1/2
1/2 (Tony Danial and Batt Variant Cover)
#1
#1 (American Entertainment Exclusive Edition)
#1 (Variant "Special" Edition)
#2
#3
#3 (Tony Daniel Variant)
#4
#5
#6
#7
#7 (Tony Daniel Variant)
#8
#9
#10
#10 (Tony Daniel Variant)
#11
#11 (Variant Cover)
#12
#13
#13 (Variant)
#14
#14 (Variant)

 Tenth, The: Resurrected (2001)

#1 - 'Resurrected Part 1'
#1 (Dynamic Forces Cover) - 'Resurrected Part 1'
#1 (Dynamic Forces Gold Foil Edition) - 'Resurrected Part 1'
#2 - 'Resurrected Part 2'
#2 (Cover B - Romano Molenaar) - 'Resurrected Part 2'
#3 - 'Resurrected Part 3'
#3 (Variant) - 'Resurrected Part 3'
#4 - 'Resurrected Part 4'
#4 (Variant) - 'Resurrected Part 4'

 Tenth, The: Abuse Of Humanity (1997)

TPB - 'Abuse Of Humanity'

 Tenth, The: Configuration (1998)

#1

 Tenth, The: Evil's Child (1999)

#1
#1 (Another Universe Bikini Cover)
#1 (Nude Cover)
#1 (Tower Records Exclusive)
#1 (Variant)
#1 (Variant B)
#2
#3
#4
#4 (Variant Edition)

 The Tenth: Darkk Dawn (2005)

#1 - 'Darkk Dawn'

 The Tenth: The Black Embrace (1999)




none of which I've heard of


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 12, 2008)

Tomasi on Outsiders?

At that point, I'm guessing that Cassandra Cain will not be on it, if the latest solicited issue is anything to go by.

If she still is, my expectations are fucking low.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 12, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> I blame the editors
> 
> Though Outsiders is going to be written by Tomasi which means it will be epic
> *
> ...


Me neither.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Tomasi on Outsiders?
> 
> At that point, I'm guessing that Cassandra Cain will not be on it, if the latest solicited issue is anything to go by.
> 
> If she still is, my expectations are fucking low.



she probably isn't. 

But why would you have low expectations?  He's not a retard like Beechen.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 13, 2008)

DC #850 was great, I definitely enjoyed it mroe than Morrison's arc (bat-radia nonwithstanding)

spoiler list compiled by a guy on another forum



*Spoiler*: _Anime Master_ 



Hush impersonates Bruce to get into Wayne manor, but Alfred isnt an idiot. Alfred and Hush fight and Hush finds the Batcave (the page I posted). Batman and Hush fight and have incredible dialogue. And we finally learn how Elliot's mother dies and what happened to the relationship between Elliot and Peyton (Scarface). *Oh, the Dinosaur activates*...but is destroyed. Hush is left for dead in a scene referencing the Incredibles. Meanwhile Selina is still out of it, but will make it. When she wakes up, her and Bruce talk. But the issue end with Selina royally screwing over Hush in case he is alive...which he is. I won't spoil that. 

Paul Dini is one of the best Batman writers period.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 13, 2008)

Bat-radia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other bat-devices.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 13, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> she probably isn't.
> 
> But why would you have low expectations?  He's not a retard like Beechen.



*points to sig*

It's all encompassing.

That said. . . she's not even involved in the "Battle for the Cowl" storyline.

Heck, even BATWOMAN has a stake there. . . and how the heck is she tied into the Bat-family more than Cassandra at this point?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 13, 2008)

Batwoman is tied to the bat-family in name alone. I doubt if she knows anyone else's secret identities.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 13, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> *points to sig*
> 
> It's all encompassing.


well Tomasi has failed to make a _single issue _that has been less than sheer awesomeness (BA, NW, GLC, FCRq)


> That said. . . she's not even involved in the "Battle for the Cowl" storyline.
> 
> Heck, even BATWOMAN has a stake there. . . and how the heck is she tied into the Bat-family more than Cassandra at this point?


bull

Lagrange


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 13, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Batwoman is tied to the bat-family in name alone. I doubt if she knows anyone else's secret identities.



Exactly. Which is why I dislike the character. Heck, Cassandra Cain would have a bigger stake in the storyline than Batwoman does, unless DC soft-retconned that Batwoman is now somehow important to Batman in the way Sentry's origin was soft-retconned into the Marvel Universe.



Kilowog said:


> well Tomasi has failed to make a _single issue _that has been less than sheer awesomeness (BA, NW, GLC, FCRq)



True, but he was part of the editorial team (along with Berganza and DiDio) who directed Cassandra Cain to be a villain.

That said, I don't trust him with the character on account of that. Same goes for Berganza.



> bull
> 
> Link removed



. . . ?



> 12: Another question that came up from the readers – what’s going on with Greg Rucka? He has Final Crisis: Revelations going on...and there’ve been comments that he has stuff in the works. But that’s been said for a while...
> 
> 
> DD: We’re going to see Greg Rucka’s return to the Batman family *post Battle for the Cowl.*



Could be the promised Batwoman mini or ongoing DC advertised. . . many, many months earlier.



> 13: The male side of the Batman family or the female side of the Batman family?
> 
> DD: Well, you don’t have to be the world’s greatest detective to figure that one out.



I'll believe it when I see it.

In the Cowl promo pic, there's Catwoman, Hush, Nightwing, Robin, and Jason Todd. Batwoman isn't there, but it's confirmed in an interview that she "plays (some) big role in there".

Oracle is missing from the Cowl news so far, but there's an Oracle mini in the works post-BOP cancellation.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 13, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Exactly. Which is why I dislike the character. Heck, Cassandra Cain would have a bigger stake in the storyline than Batwoman does, unless DC soft-retconned that Batwoman is now somehow important to Batman in the way Sentry's origin was soft-retconned into the Marvel Universe.



agreed about Cass having a bigger stake but really the underusage of Kate is mainly about the fact that Rucka created her and everyone is too scared to touch her before Rucka can do something with her (she's only _really_ appeared in 52.  her character and personality is unknown).  



> True, but he was part of the editorial team (along with Berganza and DiDio) who directed Cassandra Cain to be a villain.
> 
> That said, I don't trust him with the character on account of that. Same goes for Berganza.



I'd still be wiling to give him a shot since he's infinitely more talented than Beechen could ever hope to be



> . . . ?



basically states that Rucka won't be using Kate till after BftC



> Could be the promised Batwoman mini or ongoing DC advertised. . . many, many months earlier.



check the next answer



> I'll believe it when I see it.


 what 



> In the Cowl promo pic, there's Catwoman, Hush, Nightwing, Robin, and Jason Todd. Batwoman isn't there, but it's confirmed in an interview that she "plays (some) big role in there".


 :amazed links pl0x



> Oracle is missing from the Cowl news so far, but there's an Oracle mini in the works post-BOP cancellation.



neat


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 13, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> agreed about Cass having a bigger stake but really the underusage of Kate is mainly about the fact that Rucka created her and everyone is too scared to touch her before Rucka can do something with her (she's only _really_ appeared in 52.  her character and personality is unknown).



Indeed. Which really frustrates me, because all that's going for her now is her connection with Renee Montoya and her character advertisement.

And now she's on the new JLA later on. . . but what the heck did she actually do the deserve that, other than the writer?



> I'd still be wiling to give him a shot since he's infinitely more talented than Beechen could ever hope to be



Indeed.



> basically states that Rucka won't be using Kate till after BftC



Ah.



> check the next answer
> 
> what



Well, some stories aren't really as advertised with DC as of late, so I'll just wait and see.



> :amazed links pl0x



The image or the interview?

The former has been posted earlier, I think; the latter is on Newsarama, although I can't find it with the Search Engine there for now. . .



> neat



I wonder what they plan to do with her.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 13, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Indeed. Which really frustrates me, because all that's going for her now is her connection with Renee Montoya and her character advertisement.


I can't really hold anything against Rucka since the series he put off developing Kate for was Checkmate 



> And now she's on the new JLA later on. . . but what the heck did she actually do the deserve that, other than the writer?


Robinson's only given reason was "she has BAT in the name"



> Indeed.



One thing that leads me to believe that Tomasi _might_ do a halfway decent Cass appearance is that in nearly all the books he's written so far he has shown that he truly values the characters he writes.  Nightwing is filled with references to the past and pulls plot threads from a lot of his earlier appearances (as Robin, Wolfman/Perez TT, earliers arcs of NW) in forming his portrayal of Dick.  Also the way he presented Yat and MM in his other books.

at least thta's my wishful thinking.  I mean I don't know what Tomasi's role was for all I know he was drunk playing sudoku in the back of hte room when they decided Cass' fate or he could have been the one who enineered it.  Either way I still think even if he does ever try to write a story that pushes her aside it would be better than Beechen 


> I wonder what they plan to do with her.


I wonder if it's at all tied in with Dick?  Andreyko's Nightwing Annual firmly established that Babs is the one true love of Dick's life. (he was going to pop the question right before Infinite Crisis occured).


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 13, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> I can't really hold anything against Rucka since the series he put off developing Kate for was Checkmate



True. Not every writer is like Geoff Johns, who still amaze me at the number of series he's handling right now.



> Robinson's only given reason was "she has BAT in the name"



FRUSTRATION! RAGE!



> One thing that leads me to believe that Tomasi _might_ do a halfway decent Cass appearance is that in nearly all the books he's written so far he has shown that he truly values the characters he writes.  Nightwing is filled with references to the past and pulls plot threads from a lot of his earlier appearances (as Robin, Wolfman/Perez TT, earliers arcs of NW) in forming his portrayal of Dick.  Also the way he presented Yat and MM in his other books.
> 
> at least thta's my wishful thinking.  I mean I don't know what Tomasi's role was for all I know he was drunk playing sudoku in the back of hte room when they decided Cass' fate or he could have been the one who enineered it.  Either way I still think even if he does ever try to write a story that pushes her aside it would be better than Beechen



Indeed.



> I wonder if it's at all tied in with Dick?  Andreyko's Nightwing Annual firmly established that Babs is the one true love of Dick's life. (he was going to pop the question right before Infinite Crisis occured).



He did pop the question. Barbara accepted it, but later retracted her answer in the Nightwing Annual. Something along the lines of "not ready to be tied down yet, you or me". That's roughly OYL.

At this point, she'll probably be back-center of the DCU, her status as Oracle and all. Not too limited to Gotham-Bat family panel-time, I suppose.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 13, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> True. Not every writer is like Geoff Johns, who still amaze me at the number of series he's handling right now.



Rucka is one of those guys who just flat out doesn't do more than 1 series at a time.  He likes to put all his effort into what he's doing.



> FRUSTRATION! RAGE!


Robinson is dangerously close to wasting away all of the goodwill he's earned from Starman, if he doesn't shape up his Superman run and can make JL pay off.





> At this point, she'll probably be back-center of the DCU, her status as Oracle and all. Not too limited to Gotham-Bat family panel-time, I suppose.


well she has been semi independent of them ever since War Games, kinda surprised they're cancelling BoP due to RIP related stuff since I personally consider BoP in its current form as a DCU book, not a Batbook.


> He did pop the question. Barbara accepted it, but later retracted her answer in the Nightwing Annual. Something along the lines of "not ready to be tied down yet, you or me". That's roughly OYL


.
oh it's been a while since I read that annual, memory is sketchy.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 13, 2008)

When does Robinson's Justice League come out?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 13, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Rucka is one of those guys who just flat out doesn't do more than 1 series at a time.  He likes to put all his effort into what he's doing.



And what a series Checkmate was.

Pity it gone down. . .



> Robinson is dangerously close to wasting away all of the goodwill he's earned from Starman, if he doesn't shape up his Superman run and can make JL pay off.



Indeed.



> well she has been semi independent of them ever since War Games, kinda surprised they're cancelling BoP due to RIP related stuff since I personally consider BoP in its current form as a DCU book, not a Batbook.



Agreed. Although BoP has been mediocre for the last few months, IMO.
.


> oh it's been a while since I read that annual, memory is sketchy.



Everyone remembers the issue because Dick slept with Barbara after her paralysis, and then in the morning invited her to his and Starfire's wedding.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 13, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> And what a series Checkmate was.
> 
> Pity it gone down. . .


I'm guessing he left because of Revelations/Resist and because of his promise to eventually get to Kate.

alos may Bruce Jones burn in hell.




> Indeed.







> Agreed. Although BoP has been mediocre for the last few months, IMO.
> .


 yes it has, yes it has.

how many creative changes has it gone since BoP?  



> Everyone remembers the issue because Dick slept with Barbara after her paralysis, and then in the morning invited her to his and Starfire's wedding.


that was the only thing I solidly remembered.  that needs to go in the onw3d thread


----------



## Al-Yasa (Nov 13, 2008)

in my opinion it should be alfred, anyone agree ?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 13, 2008)

Another thing that should go in the own3d thread is when Robin (Dick) got stuck in a wooden crate with Batgirl (Babs), ended up getting wood, and when Batman finally freed them Batgirl saw it..


----------



## Castiel (Nov 15, 2008)

Marc Andreyko is made of win.  Now that Manhunter was brutally murdered by the editors he should definitely work on a Batbook again at some point.


----------



## vicious1 (Nov 15, 2008)

That would be nice. To be fair Manhunter was given more than a chance.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 15, 2008)

> *ROBIN #183
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art and cover by Freddie E. Williams II*
> A “Batman: Last Rites” tie-in and featuring an “Origins and Omens” backup story! Gotham City has found a new hero and his name is Robin – but with a battle for Batman's cowl looming, is Tim Drake ready to become something more? Guest-starring Jason Todd and Lady Shiva. And don’t worry, this final issue doesn’t mark the end of Robin – it’s just the start of an all-new beginning!
> *FINAL ISSUE* • On sale February 18 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 15, 2008)

That robin solicit makes me happy and sad at the same time. 

Tim should get trapped in the speed force or something, become an instant adult and win BftC. 

He's got what it takes to be Batman...

dead parents
"super" girlfriend 
drives the Batmobile
hates the Joker
friends in Gotham PD
has been in like every DC comic to be released in a month
is a detective
lives in Wayne Manor
is 15 years old


----------



## mystictrunks (Nov 15, 2008)

Robin's canceled?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 15, 2008)

Yes. *sad face


----------



## Castiel (Nov 15, 2008)

yeah well Dick has


dead parents
has had 2 super girlfriends
has driven the Batmobile, plus has his own "Nightwing" vehicles
has beaten the Joker to a bloody pulp many, many times
Has strong enemyship with Two-Face
Was once a police officer, has reputation for honestly
has been in like every DC comic to be released in a month
was Batman's first student and the one Batman (arguably) cares the most about
has lived in Wayne Manor
has age and experience (led Outsiders, Titans, and Teen Titans)
high class and cushy job that gets him lots and lots of tail


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 16, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> yeah well DickTim has
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 16, 2008)

Robin seems more likely, because it's hard to see him staying as Robin much longer, he's nearly 18. And Nightwing has his own independent identity. And I really can't see Robin becoming Nightwing and Nightwing becoming Batman or something like that. 

On the other hand Nightwing has connections to practically every hero team out there. Really, I think it'd be interesting to see Nightwing join the JLA for a while in place of Batman, without changing his costume.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2008)

Bruce adopted Dick first


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 16, 2008)

So 'Last Rites' takes place from December until February and BftC takes place immediately afterward until the Blackest Night. Captain America was excellent without the title character present for almost a year. I wonder if the same can be said for Batman and Detective Comics. ?

Also, these returns of Hush seem so forced. Granted I don not like the character, but I read the R.I.P. story anyways. The original Hush story was well written and this one... wasn't.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2008)

You liked Loeb's Hush over Dini's arc?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 16, 2008)

Magic. I don't have to explain anything.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm honestly at a complete and utter loss of words.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 16, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> The original Hush story was well written and this one... wasn't.


You are obviously confused.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm hoping he's talking about the garbage first return of Hush from Gotham Knights


----------



## mystictrunks (Nov 16, 2008)

Loeb is writing badly on purpose to ruin Marvel.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2008)

that's one of two theories I have, the other is that the "Jeph Loeb" is a psedonym for when a penciller decides to write his own stories.


----------



## mystictrunks (Nov 16, 2008)

Isn't he writing the Ultimate's line big event? There you go Loeb destroys the Ultimae universe by doing something that makes the Onsalught Saga look like COIE or Sinestro Corps. Ultimate line is ruined. Loeb ruins the Hulk for years to come.

But this is about Batman, and I have to say I've been missing out on most R.I.P comics for about a month or two.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2008)

Gaiman is a comic book GOD




> *BATMAN #686
> Written by Neil Gaiman
> Art by Andy Kubert & Scott Williams
> Covers by Andy Kubert and Alex Ross
> ...






> *DETECTIVE COMICS #853
> Written by Neil Gaiman
> Art by Andy Kubert & Scott Williams
> Cover by Andy Kubert
> ...




Nightwing by Tomasi, I will miss thee 




> *NIGHTWING #153
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art and cover by Don Kramer & Jay Leisten*
> It’s the fateful, final “Batman” Last Rites” issue featuring an “Origins and Omens” backup! As Robin, Dick Grayson fought alongside Batman as part of the dynamic duo, the greatest crime-fighting team in history. As Nightwing, he teamed up with his peers to combat injustice in the Titans and the Outsiders. Now, Dick Grayson faces the most important battle of his life. Batman is dead. The Mantle of the Bat must be passed, but it will require all of Dick’s training and skills to carry out the last wishes of Bruce Wayne and protect Gotham City. Will it be enough to protect himself from the dangers that await him? Or is this the last the world will see of Nightwing?
> *FINAL ISSUE* • On sale February 4 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 17, 2008)

These solicits lack bat-radia. 


Othrys12 said:


> You are obviously confused.


No. Can't say that I am. I liked the Loeb/ Lee "Hush" story much more than Dini's. I still think Tommy Elliot is much better used as a "one time only character" though. 

Each re-appearance has been more and more stupid, now undergoes plastic surgery to look like Bruce Wayne... ridiculous.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2008)

Dini still used the character better than anyone else ever has.  Only thing Loeb/Lee even remotely had better than Dini was that it had more villains.

Gotham Knights was garbage and should never be mentioned ever again


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 17, 2008)

I still say Loeb/Lee did the better job, even though I think Hush is a crap-tacular character stuck somewhere between "eighties awesome" and "nineties extreme".


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2008)

yeah Hush is a really bland character, really his only purpose is to be a payoff at the end of Loeb's arc.  He was simply a plot devise.

GK took him from that and tried to make him awesome and ended up making him worse.  Dini at least for me redeemed him from GK and took him from a guy I had no interest in, to a guy I have semi interest in.  (though I'm still fond of the original arc, I just plain loved this more )


That being said I'm now semi intrigued in what his role is in the future (the January arc, plus BftC).  Though I sincerely hope Catwoman murders him.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 17, 2008)

I think that explosion ruined his "Bruce face", and possibly his face in general. He'll probably be permenantly bandaged now. Catwoman definately desirves to kill him after the crap he put her through.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2008)

not only that, but she has killed for less (she murdered Black Mask because of a THREAT)

oh and Alex Ross variant for the Neil Gaiman story


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 17, 2008)

I thought Alfred was supposed to be dead/dying? Does anyone else remember reading that from the solicits of Morrison's R.I.P. epilogue books? 

**EDIT*
I checked the DC site and they changed it.

**EDIT 2*
I knew I wasn't making it up. 
The ANTI Naru/Hina


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2008)

I just noticed that "Batman" is going biweekly for the next few issues


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 17, 2008)

Yep.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2008)

I am so siked

Conclusion to RIP? 

Final Crisis Retrospective thing by Morrison? 

DENNY FUCKING O'NEIL returns to the batbooks? 

ALL BEFORE 2008 ends? 


A hush arc about Catwoman's revenge? 

NEIL GAIMAN, creator of the best comic ever doing an arc? 

Tony Daniels doing art for BftC? 

in the first 3 months of 2009?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 17, 2008)

Yeah, this is pretty freaking epic. And to think, I had almost given up on Batman because I "didn't get it" [/morrison]


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2008)

lol someone expecting to "get" morrison?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 17, 2008)

Wel, I somehow figured out that Xorn was Magneto the issue before it was officially revealed. So I figured it'd be the same for R.I.P... I was wrong.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 17, 2008)

No one can get Morrison completely.

Whoever says so is fucking lying.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2008)

One thing I enjoy about Morrison is that you never know what you're going to get going in.  Will be sober_ish_? will be slightly stoned? will be so completely insane that only dolphins will understand what he's trying to get accross?


----------



## Taxman (Nov 17, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> No one can get Morrison completely.
> 
> Whoever says so is fucking lying.



or they're on the same drugs he's on...

I'm still trying to read the Invisibles


----------



## WarriorS (Nov 17, 2008)

I don't know what people have against it, but I honestly loved the _Mr. Miracle_ mini he did for _Seven Soldiers_. Concepts like the "wavelength of hate" are awesome in my opinion. It's like out-Kirbying Jack Kirby.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2008)

I like Morrison, even if he does confuse me relatively often.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 18, 2008)

Othrys12 said:


> I like Morrison, even if he does confuse me relatively often.



Give up the entirety of this very nation will never understand Morrison's ideals. Unless somehow with the narcotics he's snuffing will throw him into a world when Parallax is imbued in Morrison's mother and he must tell the significance of what's behind the mask on this goddamn series.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2008)

That post hurts my eyes.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 18, 2008)

Then you have gained Morrison's insights tell me of them.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Robin #180 preview_


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2008)

I really do not care for that artist


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 18, 2008)

Othrys12 said:


> I really do not care for that artist


He's ok. He isn't terrible nor is he amazing.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2008)

It's mostly just his style I dislike. The way he does faces... just looks a bit off, especially Robin's. But what really annoys me is the way he does eyes, like when the masks are off. They've got like weirdly sized pupils and those eyelashes. It just doesn't look good.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2008)

He doesn't draw, he does all his art on a computer.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2008)

Drawing with a tablet is still drawing <_<

He might wanna consider taking up pencils again though...


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2008)

from what I hear, he does the basic outlines on tablets then does everything else on photoshop or something, _basically just to prove he can._


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2008)

Isn't that generally how you use a tablet? Those things are hardly any good for coloring.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2008)

dunno, never used one.  my sister is the big "internet artist" of the family


----------



## Kameil (Nov 18, 2008)

Lol but Kilo's never bothered to show her how many more people outclass her?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 20, 2008)

fuck you Frank Tieri for your horrible BATO issues, may Tomasi wipe away your failure.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 20, 2008)

interview with Dan DiDio, one BftC



> *IGN Comics: Let's start off with Batman. RIP wraps up in a couple weeks, and then you head into Battle for the Cowl. What are the key books readers are going to need to pay attention to for the Dark Knight's story heading out of RIP and Final Crisis? *
> 
> Dan DiDio: Well the key book right now is Battle for the Cowl. It's a three-part mini-series, 30 pages each, written and drawn by Tony Daniel, and it features basically every character important to the Batman universe. We show all the primary villains in the DCU who have been a thorn in Batman's side, and then we show all the characters and heroes who have been inspired by Batman.
> 
> ...





also neat covers by Daniels



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 20, 2008)

Could you spoiler tag the large Nightwing pic plz? It makes it difficult to read the interview on my screen.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 20, 2008)

d            o           n             e


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 20, 2008)

> *IGN Comics: As Battle for the Cowl moves on, how will the other prominent Batman books such as Detective Comics and Batman factor in?> *
> 
> DiDio: What happens is that, after February, Batman and Detective go on hiatus. They will return, with their natural numbering, later in the year. And we've cancelled Robin, Nightwing and Birds of Prey. With all of these books, it's not that any of these characters are going to be off the slate for any amount of time ? quite the opposite. They will be prominently featured in Battle for the Cowl and a number of series that will be premiering in June once Cowl concludes.
> 
> ...


I was wondering what'd they do with Batman and DC, also when the guy who ruined The JokerMorrison would return. This makes sense. Good job Didio.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 24, 2008)

2 day bump


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 25, 2008)

No spoilers for the last issue?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 25, 2008)

oh well since you asked




*Spoiler*: _Batman #681 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 25, 2008)

What site do you uses, IGN? ?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 25, 2008)

there is a button on your mouse that is not the clicking one


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 25, 2008)

You could've just answered the question... fucker!


----------



## Castiel (Nov 25, 2008)

ok, I used a mother box and a bat-radia in conjunction to warp the pages from Daniels' desk

that simple enough for you?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 25, 2008)

*negged, permanent ignore.


----------



## Ronin (Nov 25, 2008)

So Black Gloves' plan goes all the way back to 52?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 25, 2008)

I just hope we don't have to wait on Final Crisis to really finish the story.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 25, 2008)

Ronin said:


> So Black Gloves' plan goes all the way back to 52?


Apparantly so, but I don't care about that. I wanna see what happened when we left off. Is Jezabell Jet the Black Glove? Will the Joker ever be funny again? Why'd morrison change his mind about killing Alfred?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 25, 2008)

*Batman #682* and *#683* are Final Crisis "tie-ins".

Though yeah the schedule is completely fucked up since *Final Crisis #6* (the issue that affects Batman the most and leads to Battle for the Cowl) was supposed to come out at the same time as those to explain wtf is going on.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 25, 2008)

Gah, when does FC 5 come out?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 25, 2008)

three weeks


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 25, 2008)

... well, fuck


----------



## Castiel (Nov 25, 2008)

Seven to Eight Weeks before #6 (barring delays)

Which sucks since Morrison said that THAT specific issue is the climax of his Batman stuff.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 25, 2008)

Fantastic.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 25, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Seven to Eight Weeks before #6 (barring delays)
> 
> Which sucks since Morrison said that THAT specific issue is the climax of his Batman stuff.



Hope we'll understand that climax.


----------



## NeoDMC (Nov 25, 2008)

So tomorrow, Morrison will either ascend to godhood and bask in the glory that is immortality, or he will fall to the earth a burned and bloated form, a mockery of his former self and the object of hatred for many generations to come.

I wait and watch, confident that none of this will affect me, for I am not regular Batman reader.

Now you all see the wisdom in choosing Superman over Batman? Because like God in the Old Testament, Superman delivers...and will turn you into a fucking pillar of salt bitches


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 25, 2008)

NeoDMC said:


> So tomorrow, Morrison will either ascend to godhood and bask in the glory that is immortality, or he will fall to the earth a burned and bloated form, a mockery of his former self and the object of hatred for many generations to come.
> 
> I wait and watch, confident that none of this will affect me, for I am not regular Batman reader.
> *
> Now you all see the wisdom in choosing Superman *over Batman? Because like God in the Old Testament, Superman delivers...and will turn you into a fucking pillar of salt bitches


I was in agreement until that ridiculous statement... Then I stopped reading.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 25, 2008)

Heat Vision salt must be tasty.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

Well Action Comics is as good, if not better, then Green Lantern so I agree to a point since Geoff Johns is a god.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 26, 2008)

It's simply understandable because Geoff will always be Geoff.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

Aside from Sinestro Corps War, I prefer Johns' Action Comics to most of what he's written.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 26, 2008)

I personally prefer Action Comics mostly towering over anything else in the basis of my likings myself.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

Indeed.  Johns delivers his absolute best work ever on a regular basis on that title.  Nothing from Green Lantern, Justice Society, Flash or anything else he's written has been that awesome (Sinestro Corps War was damn close though).

Although Robinson's Superman run is completely so-so.  His first arc was bad, but his New Krypton related stuff is pretty good.  still it's very hard to believe this could be the same guy who wrote Starman.

Supergirl has gone from worst book ever to being a fairly decent book.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm liking New Krypton and Kara's developing so fast she's becoming easily likeable throughtout the series. On Robinson's run it was severely flawed in the first arc indeed but New Krypton cleared up the masses giving Kara some shining moments partially.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

talking Superman in a Batman thread 

anyways, Robinson seems to fail epicly at writer the character Superman and ESPECIALLY Lois Lane.  His New Krypton stuff I liked because he's doing what he did best in Starman, digging up old characters and putting them in modern situations


----------



## Kameil (Nov 26, 2008)

I would like to talk of Batmang it's just that I don't want to see Morrison going into his meth/crystalline liquidated form of Sirrosis the wonder boy urinating on what clues are left throughout the story. I just hope Morrison pulls through.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 26, 2008)

Apparently, there are a bunch of spoilers on the web and a lot of folks are pissed.  

Hm.  ?


----------



## Kameil (Nov 26, 2008)

I find that to be their fucking fault.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 26, 2008)

I refuse to read spoilers for any ongoing series I'm reading (excluding comic creator interviews). You're right Kameil, It's their own fucking fault for being curious.


----------



## NeoDMC (Nov 26, 2008)

It's because all the spoilers revealing the conclusion as sucking bawls. 

I would pay good money for Geoff John's outline to Blackest Night. Grant Morrison would have to mug me. And the problem isn't that I don't like Morrison's work, in fact I like Batman R.I.P. more than most people for the current issues being so batshit crazy. However I also know that Grant Morrison has already wrote his Magnum Opus, All-Star Superman. He isn't going to write anything better than that, at least not to me.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 26, 2008)

I wonder if it's been scanned in stores yet? ?


----------



## Kameil (Nov 26, 2008)

If we can grasp that very conclusion.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

it should be in stores by now.  the only people who read them yet should be people who work in the stores.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 26, 2008)

Those lucky bastards.


----------



## Yoshi (Nov 26, 2008)

Do you think Minutemen might do a masterworks of R.I.P? I want to read this series but I have no idea of what order to read things in.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 26, 2008)

The order is something like this: 

Batman 676
Batman 677
Batman 678
Batman 679
Batman 680
Batman 681


----------



## mow (Nov 26, 2008)

i'll never get enough of this place


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

Robin #175 and #176 TECHNICALLY go between Batman #678 and #679


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 26, 2008)

@ 681.

This makes absolutely zero sense to me.  Perhaps I'm reading it wrong.  ?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

Kameil said:


> I find that to be their fucking fault.



I think they're pissed because people are posting them right in the open where anyone can see it whether they intend to or not.

like if I were to post


*Spoiler*: _MASSIVE, MASSIVE Venture Brothers Spoiler_ 



The brother died long ago and the ones we see are just the most recent clones




no one would really object because I put it in tags.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 26, 2008)

I think I got most of it, but I am a bit confused as to how the Black Glove is supposedly connected to that movie.


----------



## WarriorS (Nov 26, 2008)

Generally speaking, I find comic book spoilers to sound much worse than they actually are. I'm a bit confused at the spoilers I'm looking at, but I'm not horrified or pissed like people seem to be. I think it's because I remember that FC 6 is the truly final end of Batman.

But frankly, I _really_ need to see this issue so I can figure out what the hell is going on.


----------



## mow (Nov 26, 2008)

im maintaining control of self and waiting till FC6 for me to read the arc thing at one sitting


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 26, 2008)

Ok. I just read the R.I.P. conclusion. It wasn't "ZOMG! awesome. " but it didn't suck either. It was actually kinda cool and the Joker ambulance scene made me laugh. I wish they had added the "You're wrong! Batman and Robin will never die!" page in there but oh well. 

All in all, I liked this. Even though I still never really understood the "black and red, now do you get it" parts. Even with the Joker's explanation. I'm looking forward to the epilogue books next month.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 26, 2008)

Hah Holy shit 

*Spoiler*: _Zur En Arrh_ 




Thomas Wayne tells Bruce in the Epilogue they'd lock Zorro in Arkham


Zorro in Arkham
Zur En Arrh...


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 26, 2008)

Yeah, I got that part too, but I have no idea what it's supposed to mean.


----------



## NeoDMC (Nov 26, 2008)

I liked it. Morrison knew to stay focused on the important things and not dilute it even though a lot of shit was happening at the same time. After the helicopter crash the immediate storyline is Final Crisis, and this story only works if that is true.


*Spoiler*: __ 



So I guess the main villain was...Satan?


----------



## WarriorS (Nov 26, 2008)

I liked it a lot. It wasn't completely mind-blowing awesome... but mostly because I was expecting something else. I was expecting an end, and (without spoiling it) it's not over yet.

Really, I was expecting a funeral. Instead, Morrison wrote a last love-letter to Bruce Wayne before he sends him on his way. If people are angry, I think it's that a lot of them don't realize that Morrison has repeatedly said "It ends with FC 6". So many great things...


*Spoiler*: __ 



- The Joker's speech. I loved how he perfectly summed up everything about Batman. "I keep trying to think outside the box, so he keeps building a _bigger_ box."
- And really, wasn't that the whole story? They thought they had him trapped in a box... when really they were trapped in his box. Seeing Batman coming out of it only like Batman could was so, so great to watch.
- The Club of Heroes. I'm glad they got a final mention.
- Thomas Wayne? I don't think Hurt is him, but Morrison did a good job of making it still possible. Hurt trying to destroy Batman by making his origin a lie was an interesting attack.
- ZUR EN ARRH. Holy Crap, I didn't see that coming. I didn't even put it together until you guys mentioned it.
- Morrison retroactively made _Heart of Hush_ 10x better. My original problem with _Heart of Hush_ was that Batman was supposed to be in love with Jet at the time, and the little speech at the end to Selena, while absolutely heartfelt and in character, didn't jive with what we'd seen previously. But with the whole "Faking it" part just solidified Selena as Bruce's one great love.
- Who is the Black Glove? I'm not sure it's the Devil... Simply the capricious, completely irredeemable evil that exists. I almost want to say that maybe the Black Glove is really part of Darkseid's plot in Final Crisis, to weaken him before the end. I dunno.




There's still a lot left to explain, but I feel pretty good about it all. It was different than I expected, but in the end it didn't disappoint. Actually, I'm happy it ended the way it did. A fitting final tale.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 26, 2008)

Not over yet, with Final Crisis still going on.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

Damian is awesome


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 26, 2008)

Conclusion to R.I.P was pretty interesting. Although some pieces are still left unexplained. I guess we'll have to wait until FC.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

I liked the splash page of Dick with the cowl.


----------



## NeoDMC (Nov 26, 2008)

I feel like we are smarter for some reason.

The other forums I go to people are bashing it cuz they say they can't understand it. I can't understand it completely, but I don't go into moron rage because of it. Well I guess it's to be expected, these are the same people who tried to defend Ultimates 3 after 4 Issues.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 26, 2008)

After second read, I loved this issue.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 26, 2008)

I thought the Club of Heroes appearing felt really random, actually (@ warriors)

Overall I definitely liked it though, after all the hype around the Black Glove due to them manipulating Batman, it was cool to see he had turned the tables on them.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2008)

"oh yeah, I switched drinks with you when you blinked"


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 26, 2008)

The best part of that was that it was just a habit haha


----------



## NeoDMC (Nov 26, 2008)

That last scene with Jet on the plane.

It was Talia on the phone, and those bats were her ninja guys after taking those blood shots.

At least I think?


----------



## SSJKrillin (Nov 26, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> Yeah, I got that part too, but I have no idea what it's supposed to mean.



what i figured


*Spoiler*: __ 



when he was talking to the monk guy he thinks he might have created another identity inside of himself due to the trauma of what happened. the last thing his father says, presumably, before getting killed is "zorro in arkham". bruce says "what?" after so he either didnt hear it, or didnt understand it. 
after his parents were killed he most likely built this personality around that.
so the last thing he remembers from his last talk with his parents is what removes bruce from batman, and triggers his alternate personality.

i didnt explain that too well. i hope you get where im going though


----------



## WarriorS (Nov 26, 2008)

NeoDMC said:


> That last scene with Jet on the plane.
> 
> It was Talia on the phone, and those bats were her ninja guys after taking those blood shots.
> 
> At least I think?



Yep, pretty much.

And are we using spoilers right now? moe hasn't read the book yet (Though, frankly, he should. I think it would be better if you have time to dwell on it and the rest of Morrison's run...), so keep 'em in tags. 

On "Zur-en-Arrh"...


*Spoiler*: __ 



SSJKrillin's right. The "Batman of Zur-en-Arrh" is the personality that was born out of the drive for vengeance for the murder of his parents. The comic previous to his appearance says the "The first Batman reappears!", which refers to Zur-en-Arrh being born the second his parents died. Remember that Morrison keeps talking about his eyes the moment he "vows revenge", and that's the first appearance of the Batman of Zur-en-Arrh.


----------



## NeoDMC (Nov 26, 2008)

Spoiler tags are for the weak.


*Spoiler*: __ 





To me this panel cements the idea that Dr. Hurt is the Devil, or personified version of evil. And it isn't overt, it just...leads to terrible events. It seems to me that above all the Black Glove members, only Batman and the Joker understand everything that is going on. And while Batman seems to be edging on the idea (he has seen crazy shit but for the Devil to actually come after him specifically is probably too much, and the fact that it seems very human in the end), the Joker is more inclined just to call it how he sees it.

Right there, the Joker specifically says that Dr. Hurt is the Devil, and that while he admires his work, the Joker is a player, not a piece. You can say this is just a metaphor, or symbolism, but Morrison said he would constantly say the name of the villian, and he constantly does.

Throughout the entire arc, Morrison has called Dr. Hurt the Devil in some way or another. He is tell you who the villain is, you just have to read it and not see it as symbolism or abstract mumbo jumbo, he is just saying it like it is.


----------



## The Wanderer (Nov 26, 2008)

So does these so-called spoilers were bullshit in the end ?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 26, 2008)

Wouldn't know. I don't read spoilers. What'd they say?


----------



## The Wanderer (Nov 26, 2008)

Holy shit . . .



People knew about the ending way before the issue was released  . . .


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 26, 2008)

Yesterday should not be considered "way before".


----------



## The Wanderer (Nov 26, 2008)

Err . .  yeah. You're right. Should have reworded that :forkishy.

Spoiling the issue like that, without tags and before its time is kind of a low blow nonetheless.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 26, 2008)

The Wanderer said:


> Err . .  yeah. You're right. Should have reworded that :forkishy.
> *
> Spoiling the issue like that, without tags and before its time is kind of a low blow nonetheless.*


And this is why I don't read spoilers. The only forum I log onto to talk comics is NF and they guys here are pretty good about not being douchbags spoiler tagging.


----------



## WarriorS (Nov 26, 2008)

The more I re-read the issue, the better I feel about it. Especially the ending. I honestly love the ending show-down a lot more than when I first read it. I think once you _really_ start to look how many layers there are in Morrison's run, it improves greatly.


----------



## The Wanderer (Nov 26, 2008)

Yeah I know. The only good thing about the other forums is that the writers and the artits post, if only to debunk ridiculous theories.

Imagine if Johns, Morrison, Brubaker or Bendis posted here.

One of the bad things of being on an animu forum is that chances of that happening are as much as naruhina becoming can(n)on.


----------



## Deviate (Nov 27, 2008)

It was a good read, but honestly I would have preferred reading this when it comes out as a trade.


----------



## mow (Nov 27, 2008)

MUST RESIST SPOILING URGES


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 27, 2008)

WarriorS said:


> The more I re-read the issue, the better I feel about it. Especially the ending. I honestly love the ending show-down a lot more than when I first read it. I think once you _really_ start to look how many layers there are in Morrison's run, it improves greatly.



Yeah, it isn't nearly as incomprehensible as I was making it out to be.  

I guess I was mostly thrown by DC's marketing.  I believe they mentioned something about this being the most shocking moment in seventy years of Batman.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 27, 2008)

I guess it still could be with FC


----------



## Ronin (Nov 27, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Anyone realize that Dr. Hurt isnt in the Black Glove? You had:

The Big Business Guy. 
The Middle-Eastern Sheik Al-Khidr. 
The Catholic Cardinal Maggi.  -Dead
The African Princess Jezebel Jet. -Presumed Dead
The Corrupt General. -Dead

If hes not in the black glove who is he? Well, he may be satan but one line that the Joker said really intrigued me,"if the cloak fits" I kind of thought to myself,what if Dr. Hurt is actually and incarnation of Death or maybe some agent of Death.


----------



## Enclave (Nov 27, 2008)

I've thought about this before and really came to the conclusion that the only Batman aside from Bruce that I could accept is Dick Grayson.  He's the only one I could accept picking up the cowl.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 27, 2008)

Ronin said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



This is supposed to be linked to FC, so perhaps he's one of the New Gods.


----------



## NeoDMC (Nov 27, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Or perhaps he is one of the Old Gods

Even in human form the New Gods are still as capable as they were as gods, but they are also mortal, this would explain why Hurt had all the angles covered, but was still afraid of Batman in the end.


----------



## WarriorS (Nov 27, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __ 



If he's a New God, then he's Desaad, and it'd be somewhat appropriate for his gimmick.

But the more I think about it, I honestly feel that Hurt is human, but he's simply meant to represent some form of absolute evil. The absolute blackness that corruption can achieve. I don't know why, but it feels more right to me that he's still human, but he's simply pure evil.

Edit: Also, I think that the big 70 year revelation is supposed to be that the Waynes were murdered on purpose by the Black Glove. Remember the movie, _The Black Glove_? Two young lovers corrupted and destroyed by super-rich gamblers?

That also plays into Hurt's continually calling himself Batman's father, Thomas. When he says "And yet the cloak fits..." I think he's referring to his own part in creating Batman, as _Batman's_ father. Hurt (har har) created Batman, and thus claims to be his father. I think that may have been what he wanted Bruce to realize and admit: That he created Bruce as we know him today.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 27, 2008)

you know  I was looking over one of the past DiDio interviews and just noticed that Wendy from Teen Titans is "migrating" to the Batbooks to "complete" her destiny.

wonder what that's about



NeoDMC said:


> That last scene with Jet on the plane.
> 
> It was Talia on the phone, and those bats were her ninja guys after taking those blood shots.
> 
> At least I think?



wow I completely forgot about her mutant bat ninjas.



oh and Owl-Man is taking over the Outsiders from Batman


----------



## WarriorS (Nov 27, 2008)

Owl-man? How does _that_ work?

And I remembered the "Wendy" thing. Isn't her father supposed to be a villain or something?


----------



## NeoDMC (Nov 27, 2008)

Owlman...isn't he from Earth-3 or something?

And isn't he a badguy?

God forbid if I have to re-read Countdown.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 27, 2008)

Owl-Man is Bruce Wayne's evil older brother from Earth-3.  He was raised by Joe Chill after cops murdered his little brother Bruce.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 27, 2008)

It's possible that Final Crisis might screw with continuity_ again_ and put Owl-man into the main continuity somehow.


----------



## Arishem (Nov 27, 2008)

About Hurt:
*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm definitely liking the theory about him being Desaad. It would fit the pattern of his previous roles in Morrison's stories. That being said, what if he's related to the darkness that's altering the multiverse's nature in Final Crisis? Also, all the talk of death and "utter darkness" in Bruce's vision reminds me Blackest Night as well. This really gives me hope that him and Johns actually worked together to create a defining cosmic evil for DC. It would be awesome if true.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 27, 2008)

I just realized that Hush's flashback girlfriend was the new Ventriloquist


----------



## Hellion (Nov 28, 2008)

I feel sad that I don't get the ending of RIP


----------



## Lal Mirch (Nov 28, 2008)

Arishem said:


> About Hurt:
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Interesting theories, but tbh I like the ambiguity and open endedness with regards to the identity of Hurt. _The piece that can never fit._

Still, I look forward to FC#6.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 28, 2008)

I read the Nightwing "Freefall" arc. It was surprisingly, very good. Usually his 'non Batman tie-in" stories aren't very interesting to me.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 28, 2008)

Othrys12 said:


> Yoshi said:
> 
> 
> > I want to read this series but I have no idea of what order to read things in.
> ...


Actually, it's something like this.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 28, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> I read the Nightwing "Freefall" arc. It was surprisingly, very good. Usually his 'non Batman tie-in" stories aren't very interesting to me.


freefall was Tomasi's first arc that was before RIP, Great Leap is the post RIP story


LIL_M0 said:


> Actually, it's something like this.



pretty much.  also the current Robin arc happens at the same time as Nightwing Great Leap


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, I know. Freefall was great. It made me re-read and appreciate The Great Leap more. 

I know, but the current Robin arc didn't have an R.I.P. stamp on the top.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 29, 2008)

indeed, which is why I will sorely miss Tomasi regularly writting Nightwing, he took the series out of the darkness it was in from the bad writing of Ms. Grayson (coincidence) and Bruce Jones (jerk who destroyed Checkmate)


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 29, 2008)

Jones' Jason Tood/Nightwing/OYL story was decent until he turned into an alien spider monster. WTF?!


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 30, 2008)

Ok all you continuity nerds, help me make sense of this. 

*Spoiler*: _The timeline of Batman RIP is: _ 




Batman is dating Jezebel Jet, they get attacked by The Black glove. Alfred get's beat up too. Nightwing gets caught, Bruce Wayne does drugs, finds the bat-radia and hilarity ensues. (Batman 676-678). Robin gets attacked too, by the Club of Villains and finds out Bruce has gone technicolor crazy (Robin 175-176). Technicolor Batman has the red and black equation wrong but The Joker "get's it", even though we don't, and Batman get's RIP'd (Batman 678-681). Afterward Nightwing makes a 'great leap' (Nightwing 147-151) around the same time that Robin 'searches for a hero' (Robin 177-182)...



Where exactly does Hush fit in? ?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 30, 2008)

it's before RIP, Hush mentions the Black Glove and Selina says in the first issue "shopuldn't you be with Jezebel Jet?"


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 30, 2008)

I know that. I mean _exactly when_... before 'the fiend with nine eyes; story? Before the 'Third Man' mini arc? ?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 30, 2008)

likely before #675


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 30, 2008)

I think Joker's saying "Now do you get it?" because the floor tiles are where he got the idea for red and black, so in other words Batman was looking for meaning where there wasn't really any. So it's kinda like "Now do you realize you fucked up?"


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 30, 2008)

It's so simple that I can't be Morrisontrue but the more that I think about it...


----------



## Castiel (Nov 30, 2008)

*EXACTLY*

that's how the Joker thinks, randomly and without a pattern.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 30, 2008)

and how Morrison scripts too.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 30, 2008)

which is why Joker and Morrison go hand in hand (in theory)


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 30, 2008)

I re-read the last two issues of RIP, well the red and black floow tiles part,  and seriously laughed my ass off.


----------



## Agmaster (Dec 1, 2008)

So I'm gonna go home, get WAY fucked up and read all of RIP.  That's how it should be done right?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 1, 2008)

for those curious that whole "baseball bat" stuff Two-Face kept mentioning was from "Robin: Year One", where Two-Face beat a young Dick Grayson to a bloody pulp with a baseball bat.

Tomasi also made a few other references to that story, as well as to the Batman OYL arc "Face the Face" (the arc where Harvey made himself Two-Face again after being cured in the first Hush arc)


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 1, 2008)

Oh, I was wondering what the hell they were talking about cause the only Robin I remember getting beaten was Jason Todd.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 1, 2008)

coincidently Two-Face took a whack to Tim with a baseball bat too in his first adventured.  seriously if you think about it, Two-Face is the sworn enemy of all Robins, I mean he killed Jason Todd's dad.

also in case you're curious, Robin: Year One was a pretty good mini, written by the master of the Batman Family, Chuck Dixon.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 1, 2008)

Oh, ok. I was thinking Robin, like the actual first year the book was released.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 1, 2008)

Dick's first adventures as Robin - 

Tim becoming Robin - 

both have Two-Face as the central villain,* I wonder where you can find comics that heavily feature Two-Face as the villain*? 

edit: I just remembered that during the arc where Dick actually became Batman for a time, his main enemy was Two-Face



this can be found with the above 2


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 1, 2008)

Prodigal Son, I vaguely remember that. I think that happened around the time that I put down comics and picked up girls. ?


----------



## mow (Dec 2, 2008)

what is this "girls" you speak of? is it edible?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 2, 2008)

I hear tales of them being edible.


----------



## mow (Dec 2, 2008)

I can very well see this discussion becoming a scene of the "Girls" comic book xD


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 2, 2008)

LOL! That book is made of lulz and win.


----------



## mow (Dec 2, 2008)

that fap fap fap panel > everything.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 2, 2008)

Pretty much. That is, by far, the best indie book I've read.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 2, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #682 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 2, 2008)

lolz. Killer Moth, just like in Booster Gold.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 2, 2008)

the butler did it


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 2, 2008)

I can hardly wait to read all of the Last Rites stories.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 2, 2008)

They finally added the cover of Last Day's of Gotham pt.1


----------



## Castiel (Dec 2, 2008)

took them a while didn't it?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 2, 2008)

Yeah, but now that it's here. WOOT! 


lolz Nightwing has the cape and cowl in one of those "dead sidekick" cases.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2008)

Brigding the gap between Batman RIP and Final Crisis... Morrison plans to do that in two issues and so far It's not makeing much sense. Who is this "Alfie" they spoke of? ?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2008)

well RIP and the start of FC take place literally a few weeks apart (Morrison said they would fit on the same calendar).

Also Hurt said "next time you wear the cowl will be your last", FC.

and before anyone brings it up, the current arc of BATO is bad and thus I refuse to acknowledge it's existance


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2008)

So RIP happens, FC happens, then 6 months later BftC concludes and "Batman and Robin will never die happens"... ?

Yeah BATO is stupid. Even though I like Batgirl, I stopped at the issue when she was trying to make her own team.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2008)

I liked this issue

lol at Batman sleeping while Alfred was talking to him.

also damn you Morrison for making Matt Wagner's "Dark Moon Rising" duology noncanon 



> Yeah BATO is stupid. Even though I like Batgirl, I stopped at the issue when she was trying to make her own team.


yeha, I kinda liked the first 10 issues (Dixon's return) it was kinda neat and had some cool moments.  but Tieri ruined it.

oh well lets hope Tomasi can redeem it like he did MM and NW.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2008)

I wonder if Dr Hurt is that yellow faced New God. ?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2008)

I love how Morrison is taking all the insane shit from the 60's into account.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2008)

Yeah and in the 2008 he's a snake tongued weirdo.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2008)

I like to console myself with the explanation Morrison wrote in the the Arkham OGN

he's hyperadvanced and his brain destroys and rebuilds itself constantly and so one year he's a laughing fool, one year he's a snake toungued psycho


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2008)

I like to hide in a corner, crying, whilst rocking back and forth, repeating "He did it for teh lulz" until I tire myself out and pass out to console myself.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2008)

I like how this *actually* fits into Final Crisis


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2008)

Yeah, but this is written by Morrison so he knew what was going on. The other writers may not have been in the loop which it why the other on-going books will have to retroactively tie-in


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2008)

for those curious, the Lump is a character Jack Kirby created as an enemy for Mr. Miracle.

edit: the guy who did the art for the newest Batman will be doing the art on Outsiders as written by Peter Tomasi :


----------



## WarriorS (Dec 3, 2008)

This issue was a bit confusing. Certainly not what I was expecting.


*Spoiler*: __ 




 M0: "Alfie" is Alfred. At the end he mentions his "unlikely death and resurrection", so that was his "funeral" we saw. This happened back in the 60's (1964 for the death, 1966 for the resurrection).
 The Katy Kane part threw me through a loop. Originally I thought that was part of the Sensory Deprivation Experiment, but this seems to try and bring it into canon.
 On further examination, though, all these stories are from the early days of Batman. The change from "Mass Murderer to Jokester" is mentioned (Which is the change from the 40's to the 50's and 60's), the vehicles in general have a 50's-60's motif, Katy Kane living and then dying (died in 1979, just before the Crisis), Alfred's death, and the Nightwing costume. The order is a bit mixed up (Alfred's death should occur a lot later), but this looks a lot like the story of "Pre-Crisis" Batman. 
 I also like the Joker mentioning his changes to Batman's face. I honestly like the idea of him "reinventing" himself, as it fits his chaotic character so much and explains all the different personalities we've seen him have over the years. But I've said that since "A Clown At Midnight".
 But what's confusing is whether or not it's the truth. Is this just a world being put together by Dr. Mokkari, Mr. Simian, and the Lump, or were those real memories? We know that the Lump is hiding as "Alfred" (Mokkari states this outright), but how much of these memories has he affected and changed? We see him living the existence without a Batman (Like Alfred said) immediately afterwards, so I'm left to wonder what's really going on. Hopefully he'll explain it in the next issue, or in the Crisis.
 I did like the connection to _Final Crisis_. A fate worth than death for Bruce: Having his life's work be turned into an army for the ultimate evil. Holy shit, that's fucked up.
 Overall, a 7: The confusing parts are balanced out by an absolutely fantastic delivery on the "fate worse than death" for Bruce.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2008)

Oh. I thought that was Clayface. lololol


Than ks warriorS


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2008)

Interview with Mike Marts (he edits all the Batbooks), he gives some info about Last Rites and some tidbits about the end of RIP


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm still confused as to the chronology.

At the end of RIP, Batman goes missing for 6 months.

However, by Final Crisis #1, he's with the JLA, and it's definitely Bruce. Plus, he's abducted directly from JLA headquarters by Granny.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 4, 2008)

Yeah that is confusing. I'm guessing "Battle for the Cowl" takes place before FC. The dude in the interview said RIP was left open for the readers to figure out our own timeline.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 4, 2008)

. . . But then, it probably implies that at least within 6 months, Bruce at one point regains the cowl. . . only to fall to the evil New Gods.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 4, 2008)

I guess that could make sense too. We shall see. ?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 4, 2008)

But if that's true, it makes RIP entirely redundant.

Bruce disappears, comes back after x many months. . . and then is kidnapped by the New Gods.


----------



## WarriorS (Dec 4, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I'm still confused as to the chronology.
> 
> At the end of RIP, Batman goes missing for 6 months.
> 
> However, by Final Crisis #1, he's with the JLA, and it's definitely Bruce. Plus, he's abducted directly from JLA headquarters by Granny.



It is a bit odd, and Morrison needs to explain it. But remember this:

He's been missing for 6 months _to the general public_, not necessarily his allies. His brief appearance in _Final Crisis_ is likely not to be known to everyone, since it takes place almost immediately after _Batman R.I.P._ I think his "disappearance" in Batman might be more "symbolic" of his departure from his own title than the actual disappearance, which is sort of a weird way to do things. Personally, I think he teleported himself to the Hall before the crash, and he simply hasn't gotten back yet (Too busy trying to solve the murder of Orion?), at which point he gets captured.

_Battle for the Cowl_ is definitely a Post-_Crisis_ book. I think it's been stated as such by Morrison himself, but the events of _Final Crisis_ are supposed to be the REAL reason he gives up the cape and cowl.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 4, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Interview with Mike Marts (he edits all the Batbooks), he gives some info about Last Rites and some tidbits about the end of RIP



Oy.  Mike Marts is one of the worst editors around.  I can't believe he still works for one of the big two after the train wreck that is New X-men.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 4, 2008)

> At the end of RIP, Batman goes missing for 6 months.


what makes you think 6 months passed?  Morrison himself said only about ONE month happened between RIP and FC


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 4, 2008)

Because of the "six months later" caption in Batman 681? Now do you get it? [/morrisonjoker]


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 4, 2008)

Then that means the penultimate scene of RIP occurs a couple of months after FC. 

Hm.  Somehow that doesn't sound right.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 4, 2008)

I don't get it either...


----------



## Castiel (Dec 4, 2008)

that particular scene could be from after Battle for the Cowl, when the new (or possibly old) Batman and Robin go into action.

dunno all the details but I know for a fact thta Morrison said RIP and the beginning of FC happen within the same month.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 5, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> Oy.  Mike Marts is one of the worst editors around.  I can't believe he still works for one of the big two after the train wreck that is New X-men.





edumacate me


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 5, 2008)

> There's one name in common between NXM and Batman: Mike Marts, the editor. A rather poor editor indeed, uncapable of such basic things as guaranteeing to pair Morrison with great or at least good artists. We had Quitely, of course, and Leon, and JHW3, but we also had a subpar Ethan Van Sciver, a rushed Kordey, some of the worst Bachalo ever, and the non-existant storytelling of Silvestri. Then we had Tony Daniel, not that great of a draftsman and a even worse visual narrator. Not to mention Ryan Benjamin...
> 
> Furthermore, it was blatantly evident Marts couldn't even understand what Morrison was doing half of the time. He's basically the ultimate fanboy turned editor; the guy who must thinks he did us all a big favour putting Alex Ross on covers...



I remember at one point Kordey only had like a week between issues of New X-men.  Shit like that is totally unacceptable, and it's one of the many reasons why management at DC/Marvel is so lolsome.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 5, 2008)

Who is this "Kordey" you speak of? ?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 5, 2008)

hey I liked most of the Alex Ross covers for RIP and Daniels' art


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 5, 2008)

The only Ross cover I didn't like was the one where Batman was looking all fat while fighting the Club of Villians.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 5, 2008)

that had a 1060's TV show charm to it, but it was my least favorite.  my fave is the cover to RIP #3


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 5, 2008)

My favorite is 679. 

Also, is it just me or does it look like Ross uses the same model's face for Superman and Batman? ?


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 5, 2008)

Igor Kordey.  

Oh, and Tony Daniels is okay when he isn't failing 2/5ths of the time.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 5, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> Oh, and Tony Daniels is okay when he is failing 3/5ths of the time.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 5, 2008)




----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 6, 2008)

Does DC have any official policy regarding Batman Beyond?

I've just finished watching the last season and think it'd be criminal if folks like Terry and Max Gibson - Batman's best companion ever - are never heard from again.


----------



## WarriorS (Dec 6, 2008)

_Batman Beyond_ is Earth-12. It was shown as such in the abortion that was _Countdown Arena_.

Now whether or not they plan on doing anything with it is another matter completely.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 6, 2008)

Hm.  It looks like it's time for me to write a stern letter to Dan DiDio.


----------



## WarriorS (Dec 6, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> Hm.  It looks like it's time for me to write a stern letter to Dan DiDio.



Last time people started writing about the treatment of a character, Didio gave Batgirl back to Adam Beechen. You might want to hold off on that note there, _kemo sabe_.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 6, 2008)

There's a few episodes of JLU that involve Batman Beyond.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2008)

the "Epilogue" episode of JLU acts as the final chapter of the DCAU.  It explains the true relationship between Terry and Bruce, it has a cameo from the Phantasm and Terry pops the question to Dana.

there were a couple time travel episodes in Static Shock and JLU that took place in the BB future.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 6, 2008)

Am I the only who was a bit ticked with the "Bruce is Terry's genetic father" bit?

If there was EVER a successor to the mantle, it'd be him. Ignoring the relation, he was a kid who not only wanted to avenge his father, but also right the wrongs he done in the past.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2008)

I was kinda ticked that Dick was never once brought up in Beyond, but that's just me.

also yeah I personally kinda felt that making Bruce his dad took the thunder out of the initial death of Terry's "father", since it felt like Terry genuinely cared for him.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 6, 2008)

Dick is briefly mentioned in the movie


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2008)

so on topic, next week we get the first part of the O'Neil story.

I'm hoping it'll be good since O'Neil was one of the absolute best Batman writers ever (his work involving Ra's Al Ghul are some of the best Batman related stuff ever), but it's been many, many, many years since he actually wrote a Batman story (though he did write Azrael until a few years ago), so we'll see


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 6, 2008)

I hope it flows with the ending Batman 681 (before the flashback and flashforward) much better than Morrison's FC/RIP story. Each time I read it, I tend to hate it more.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2008)

I kinda liked the issue, nothing made any fucking sense 

oh and for people who entertain the idea of "Hurt is the Devil" should definitely read this story:


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 6, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> I kinda liked the issue, nothing made any fucking sense



That's why I hate it, I figured a two part arc would have some logic behind it.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2008)

listen to the first 15 or so minutes, this one guy presents his thesis about RIP and how everything fits together and it all makes sense to me.  he also brings up an interesting theory about the significance of ZurEnArr and on the implications of the Black Glove's connection with the Waynes and on the devil himself.

though it's morrison so this guy could be tittling at windmills, but to me this all sounds fine 


edit: they go into a tangent discussion and around the 20ish minute mark the guys give a spoilerfree description of what will happenin Batman #683


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 6, 2008)

LOL

They agree with me on the failure rate of Tony Daniels art.  

I am kind of shocked they're having troubling parsing Superman Beyond.  It's pretty straightforward (by Morrison's standards).


----------



## Agmaster (Dec 6, 2008)

I have to say, after hearing about what Morrison may have been trying t o do, I like how RIP is a lot more.  It's got it;s flaws, but ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 6, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> LOL
> *
> They agree with me on the failure rate of Tony Daniels art.  *
> 
> I am kind of shocked they're having troubling parsing Superman Beyond.  It's pretty straightforward (by Morrison's standards).


<---- likes Daniels' art. 


Agmaster said:


> I have to say, after hearing about what Morrison may have been trying t o do, I like how RIP is a lot more.  It's got it;s flaws, but ...



I liked RIP, but the aftermath story/ Final Crisis tie-in is fucking dumb.


----------



## Yoshi (Dec 7, 2008)

Final Crisis "writers": "Something awesome has happened to Batman! Quick - let's steal it for Final Crisis, we need it to tie-in to actual DC continuity!"


----------



## Castiel (Dec 7, 2008)

wait what?  Morrison wrote both.


----------



## mow (Dec 7, 2008)

i do not believe there are any mortal words to describe how much i love this arc. everything from start to finish ties up and it just rocks my bum to the max. GM you freaking rock.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 7, 2008)

Toldya it was win. I'm kinda jealous now, nametwin. I wish I had read it all in one sitting like you. 

**EDIT*
By the way, Did you like the Heart of Hush story ? *I thought it sucked * along with the Batman and the Outsiders tie-in.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 7, 2008)

> I thought it sucked


----------



## Castiel (Dec 7, 2008)

cool, DOug Mahnke pencils




*Spoiler*: _Nightwing #151 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 7, 2008)

So she isn't dead? ?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 7, 2008)

it was all an ingenius ploy 

so this is the first official Last Rites issue acting as an epilogue to the Two-Face story.  then we get a Ra's Al Ghul issue and then the final issue.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 7, 2008)

I hope Tomasi is writing the BftC Nightwing mini... There'd better be a BftC Nightwing mini.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 8, 2008)

That better fucking happen, Tomasi was fucking born to write Dick


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 8, 2008)

I really wish... someone other than Manhke was drawing this. I fucking hate how he draws faces. They always look so creeyp/p*d*p****/stalker-ish.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 8, 2008)

that part of what made Superman Beyond such a unique experience 

anyways there are still a few pages done by this "Shawn Moll" guy, whoever he is


----------



## WarriorS (Dec 8, 2008)

_Heart of Hush_ was great because it gave so much depth to the Hush character. You understand the significance of the bandages, why he could hate his parents so much, his connections to Batman's rogues, and a real 3-dimensional personality.

Unlike being a one-off villain who was simply introduced to know Bruce's identity, Hush comes off as a more natural villain than he previously was. Hell, you actually feel _sympathetic_ for him at times.

To me, that was Dini's greatest work since _Heart of Ice_. He completely revitalized a character that should have never been created. That's talent.

Edit: Apparently the guys in that podcast who hated RIP really liked the Last Rites.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 8, 2008)

BatO suffered because DiDio fired the awesomeness of Chuck Dixon and thus they had to hire Tieri to fill in before Tomasi took over.

good thing Nicienza didn't make the same mistake when he replaced Dixon on Robin.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 9, 2008)

this is the week of Dick Grayson






*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #851 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 9, 2008)

This is the story I've been waiting for.


----------



## mow (Dec 9, 2008)

whoever makes the covers of Detective comics (esp HoH ones) has my eternal love and dedication. good sir you have my sword to call on to in the case of battle.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 9, 2008)

I personally prefer Nguyen in covers over interiors, though I still liked his HoH interiors


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 9, 2008)

Dustin Nguyen has a deviantart account. You can scroll through his work there.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 9, 2008)




----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2008)

Nightwing and Detective Comics were both very good, though I personally prefered Nightwing


----------



## Kameil (Dec 10, 2008)

Nightwing does it better.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2008)

another long interview with Dan DiDio



> *10. Let’s talk about Batman. Something that came up in a lot of the commentary and criticism of “Batman R.I.P.” is that the storyline was built and built and built – Grant himself made pronouncements about it at the New York Comic Con as being one of the most definition stories for Batman. And then at the end of R.I.P., we get a “death” scene that we have seen before – no body, and a question mark as to what even happened. To me, this seems like it was a case where the hype, or people’s expectations overtook the story’s ability to deliver...*
> 
> DD: Here’s the conundrum on this one. And this is reflective of the world that we live in now – the world of collected editions. The R.I.P. story was always meant to play through to the end of Final Crisis - always. The thing is, we had to come up with a very complete story in “Batman R.I.P.” as it existed in its title. The reality is that the “Batman R.I.P.” story does not conclude until Final Crisis #6. There are also issues #682 and #683 of Batman that feed directly into Final Crisis #6, and we’ll have a big finale to the Batman storyline. That’s how it plays out.
> 
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2008)

cont.



> *15: But calling Gotham Gazette bookends, that would seem to suggest that after the second one, there will be a new status quo established? *
> 
> DD: All the Batman related books, with the exception of Batman and the Outsiders have been either cancelled or put on hiatus. During the months of March, April and May, everything that we have mentioned are one-shots or three issues. So my inclination is to believe that the month of June would be very essential to everything that happens to Batman, and will be the month that everyone should be paying attention to in regards to how the Batman books will be continuing through 2009 and beyond.
> 
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2008)

JPV is back


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 10, 2008)

The what now?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2008)

)



[YOUTUBE]FnDyuNBakV8[/YOUTUBE]

watch the whole video, it has lulz


----------



## Kameil (Dec 10, 2008)

Azrael is somewhat annoying.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 10, 2008)

Oh I remember him. I think I was in like 6th grade when he was the "90's EXTREME!!! " Batman


----------



## Kameil (Dec 10, 2008)

Everyone had thought he was the shit back then too bad he isn't now.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2008)

yeah, he pretty much was an answer to people who demanded it.

The way Bruce completely, utterly pwned him was epic because it didn't involve throwing a single punch 


Anyways he sucked until he stopped trying to Batman and got his own series, that one was actually a decent read.


----------



## Kameil (Dec 10, 2008)

He was even raped in the movie.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2008)

what's funny is that that's actually how it went down.

been a while since I saw that video, had to dig it from the depths of my favorites


also this gem

[YOUTUBE]quM_641RG64[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 11, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Nightwing and Detective Comics were both very good, though I personally prefered Nightwing


Me too. 

Detective was good though, it had action and a hawt mystery woman.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 11, 2008)

I find it so funny that Two-Face basically broke out like a day after being caught and we get both issues on the same day.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

*BATTLE FOR THE COWL*

​


> *BATMAN: BATTLE FOR THE COWL #1*
> Written by Tony Daniel
> Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> Covers by Tony Daniel
> ...


​


> *AZRAEL: DEATH'S DARK KNIGHT #1*
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Frazer Irving
> Cover by Guillem March
> ...


​


> *BATMAN: BATTLE FOR THE COWL ? COMMISSIONER GORDON #1*
> Written by Royal McGraw
> Art by Tom Mandrake
> Cover by Ladr?nn
> ...


​


> *GOTHAM GAZETTE: BATMAN DEAD? #1*
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by various
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen
> ...


​


> *ORACLE #1*
> Written by Kevin VanHook
> Art by Don Kramer and Jay Leisten
> Cover by Guillem March
> ...


 :xzaru


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 15, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> ​



DC has *Wildcat* over Cassandra Cain for Bat-family?

OH COME-FUCKING-ON!

And also, where's Tim Drake?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

I think Cassandra Cain will be on the next cover, Notice the other two capes ar the right edge of the pic? Maybe the BftC covers will make a 3 part panoramic spread.


----------



## Deviate (Dec 15, 2008)

Oracle is looking hot in that cover.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> I think Cassandra Cain will be on the next cover, Notice the other two capes ar the right edge of the pic? Maybe the BftC covers will make a 3 part panoramic spread.



I thought this was *painfully* obvious.   Note how Damian is cut off.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> I thought this was *painfully* obvious.   Note how Damian is cut off.



Apparently sarcasm doesn translate very well in font...


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

oh I knew that, that was a rib at CBG, not you 


also I just realized that this Azrael, is NOT in fact JPV 


edit: who the hell are Royal McGraw and Kevin VanHook?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

Never heard of those two before. 

Yeah, Azarel (supposedly) isn't gonna be JPV. I don't know anything about the character so I didn't want to post something I may have misinterpreted.



Is it JPV Lives! (Wait a sec) That's Not him?! 

or

JPV Lives! (different topic subject) That's not him! 

??? ?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

there was also one other hint board about Azrael, (I think it was in 1,000,000) and it said

"Azrael Comes and Goes"


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> there was also one other hint board about Azrael, (I think it was in 1,000,000) and it said
> 
> *"Azrael Comes and Goes*"



I was just cropping this pic to post.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

you know something I kinda hope one of these books, will address (but doubt).  what the fuck happened to Commisioner Akins?


----------



## Agmaster (Dec 15, 2008)

Haha, I love that video.  

"Now get the fuck out of here."


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

from LiTG



> FRANK’S BACK ON BATMAN
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if true


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

Frank Quitely's art is an acquired taste. So I'm not too excited.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

ok after some research:

Kevin Van Hook's only DC work was "Superman/Batman vs Vampires/Werewolves" which I didn't read.

Royal McGraw has ONLY EVER written 2 Detective issues as a fill in for Dini, the issues were pretty good.


also pretty much all the guys on art are pretty good.  I'm hopeful for this event


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> ok after some research:
> 
> Kevin Van Hook's only DC work was *"Superman/Batman vs Vampires/Werewolves"* which I didn't read.





 Worst. Comic book. Ever. [/simpsons]


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

was it so bad it's bad or so bad it's partially funny?

also to be specific on the art

Oracle is the guy who did the art on the Two-Face arc of Nightwing
Azrael is the guy who did the art on Iron Man: Inevitable
Gordon is the guy who did the decent art on the crappy "Grotesk" arc when Morrison took a break after his first arc.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

I'd rather read that shitty Grotesk arc again before sampling another issue os S/B vs W/V,


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

I'd only look at the pictures of the Grotesk arc.   I mean seriously, wtf was up with that plot?  it was like Ostrander was trying to create a black hush or something then stopped trying halfway through and then we got crazy japanese liuge singer ninjas.   I don't really blame Ostrander much since right now his job is basically to think of BS stories to fill space in the main writer's schedule



oh and lets have some wilf random speculation on what the last 2 one-shots will be about.   they confirmed 5.

2 of which will be "Gotham Gazette"s which will cover a blanket of topics (one being Bullock and Spoiler) and now 1 is about Gordon.


----------



## WarriorS (Dec 15, 2008)

There isn't much to work with in a series named "Superman and Batman vs. Vampires and Werewolves", so I hope that's made it horrible. I didn't read it, but I know it was.

The Royal McGraw stories were the Dr. Phosphorous one (Very good) and the Terrible Trio one (Okay). Both included Gordon in supporting roles. It's hard to tell if he has his voice, though.

I'm a bit worried, honestly. This isn't exactly an event to let new writers in on. But characters like Oracle and Jim Gordon aren't the most difficult of characters out there. Hopefully they'll step up to the plate.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 15, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> I'd only look at the pictures of the Grotesk arc.   I mean seriously, *wtf was up with that plot? * it was like Ostrander was trying to create a black hush or something then stopped trying halfway through and then we got crazy japanese liuge singer ninjas.   I don't really blame Ostrander much since right now his job is basically to think of BS stories to fill space in the main writer's schedule



I can't remember. I only read half of the first issue, then skimmed through until I got to Morrison's novella Joker issue. 


Kilowog said:


> oh and lets have some wilf random speculation on what the last 2 one-shots will be about.   they confirmed 5.
> 
> 2 of which will be "Gotham Gazette"s which will cover a blanket of topics (one being Bullock and Spoiler) and now 1 is about Gordon.



Gazette seems like it will have a "Divided We Stand" feel to it. 

Commissioner Gordon will be like the climax of Batman Begins except Gordon will be the one kicking ass and taking names.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 15, 2008)

I hope the Bullock story has him kicking ass and not be a piece about him struggling to get over his alcoholism.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 15, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Frank Quitely's art is an acquired taste. So I'm not too excited.





Anyhoo, if this is true, this project probably won't wrap-up until the latter half of 2010.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2008)

naw LITG says he's starting now which means he might actually be on time for once in a billion years


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 16, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> I think Cassandra Cain will be on the next cover, Notice the other two capes ar the right edge of the pic? Maybe the BftC covers will make a 3 part panoramic spread.





Kilowog said:


> I thought this was *painfully* obvious.   Note how Damian is cut off.



Alrighty then.



			
				Tony Daniel's Blog said:
			
		

> *DCUBoy* said...
> Great Cover! I just wish Batgirl was there ):
> 
> Question about her: Can you guarantee you will treat Cassandra Cain respectfully in this series like she deserves? Out of all the Bat family, I'd argue she respects Bruce the most, and yet she was completely absent from R.I.P.
> ...



1) Tony Daniel's pencils on Batgirl? Now that would have been a REAL treat, if the series wasn't cancelled (fucking DiDiot).

2) Respect all characters and their continuity. . . does that mean how she was back in her series or her CURRENT continuity?

It's a double-edged sword, that one. . . as much as I want Daniel to characterize her as she should be, DC editors would probably reinforce Beechen's changes, since it's now the character's status quo.

Fucking Beechen.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 16, 2008)

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2008)

I can't remember exactly, was Daniels on art during the arc that "fixed" Cass?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 16, 2008)

Oh, you mean Titans East? I think so

**EDIT*
The first half of it was


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2008)

Tomasi going over his post RIP status quo for the Outsiders and talks about their inherent relevance to the Batman status quo, and the new line up.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 16, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> *
> it's official, the Outsiders will no longer be led by Batman. * That was fast, and with all the pomp and circumstance they gave Batman taking cntrol again
> 
> oh well it's Tomasi so it'll still be good.



I figured that out the moment the changed the title of the book.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2008)

so Alfred is in charge of the Outsiders now


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 16, 2008)

I wonder. . . what will become of Alfred following RIP?

Alfred and his trusty shotgun. . .


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2008)

He's the leader of the Tomasi Outsiders, he instructs them on what their next mission is.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 16, 2008)

. . . With his shotgun?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm sure it'll come up at some point when Creeper gives him lip


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 16, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> . . . With his shotgun?



Yeah. That thing it powerful. It took out Rip Hunter.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 17, 2008)

Azrael(?) is in the newest BATO. :xzaru


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2008)

Frank Tieri should never write anything remotely related to Batman again, I though Underground was passable but this is pushing it.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 17, 2008)

But the Azreal scenes were kinda cool.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2008)

ok I give you that,


still I can't wait for Tomasi to take over this and make it all stop sucking.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 17, 2008)

lolz. I started and stopped reading BATO for the RIP tie-in.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2008)

Dixon's run was decent, it felt like it was building up to some good stuff then he got fired 

anyways I have faith in Tomasi, he hasn't written anything bad yet (Black Adam: Dark Age, Nightwing, JSA: Magog, FC: Requiem, GLC)


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 18, 2008)

Tony Daniel's art


----------



## Castiel (Dec 18, 2008)

The King of Peanut Butter you say


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 18, 2008)

Yes.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 18, 2008)

anyone read the new Robin?  I think it safe to say that Tim Drake is Robin no more.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 18, 2008)

I read a few pages, then I had run and do stuff. Why isn't Anarky wearing his gangsta ass hat anymore?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 18, 2008)

At least they ignored the Joker/Anarky storyline.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sooo... The General beat up Anarky and took his identity?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 19, 2008)

Fabian Nicienza on Azrael said:
			
		

> *IGN Comics: Let's start with Azrael. I realize the project is still three months away, but can you give fans a general idea of what to expect from the three-issue mini-series? *
> 
> Fabian Nicieza: In a broad sense, DC wanted to do something different with Azrael. Editor Mike Marts had been thinking about it for a while, and hadn't been able to come up with the right package, as it were. And as Robin was winding down, Mike wanted to keep working with me, and I wanted to keep working with Mike, and he said, "What do you think about Azrael?" And I said, "That's Denny O'Neil, not me! That's a hundred-plus issues of Denny!" And he said, "We know that, but the concept is great. We want to do something with the concept, but not necessarily with Jean Paul Valley or even Azrael as you know him." I had to think about it for a while, because it's a minefield to walk into - almost a no-win when you step into those situations.
> 
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Dec 19, 2008)

continued.





			
				Fabian Nicienza on Gotham Gazette said:
			
		

> *IGN Comics: So how would you describe the process that you're currently involved in with Azrael and Gotham Gazette? *
> Nicieza: Well I'm working a little bit in a vacuum on it – or at least in my own little corner - which is okay, because Gotham City is a big city, and there's a lot going on. And my characters in both of these books – I guess luckily for me in a lot of ways – are in isolated pockets of a lot of what's going on. Azrael has his own short story to tell. It's going to clearly be happening at the same time as other stuff that's going on in Battle for the Cowl, but it still is its own story. If you read it as part of the whole, you will see where it is and if you read it as just a mini-series, that will be clear to you in its own right.
> 
> Gotham Gazette is a vignette book. It's two one-shots. One is called Gotham Gazette: Batman Dead and the second is called Gotham Gazette: Batman Alive. We're following four characters, all of whom have clear and strong ties to the Bat-family, as they're involved in this transitional state with Batman missing. It's a little bit of a quieter book in that it studies these people and what the ramifications of a missing Batman or a new Batman would have on their lives. Each of them are in a place where this can be a good thing or a bad thing.
> ...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 19, 2008)

Well damn -- have me hooked on the Azrael mini.

Writing about Leslie scored major brownie points.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 19, 2008)

some dude on another forum said:
			
		

> Detective Comics 842 was the one about the suit of sorrows. it also talks about the suit's ties to the order of St. Dumas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 19, 2008)

he said  

you're thinking of her - )

:xzaru


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 19, 2008)

I thought all Manhunters (besides Martians and Robots) were women.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 19, 2008)

interview with Tony Daniels




> *IGN Comics: Let's start by talking a bit about your career: Although those familiar with it knew you made a name for yourself in the industry as a writer/artist on The Tenth, I think most fans were surprised to hear you'd be both writing and drawing Battle for the Cowl. Were you at all surprised to find out that DC was handing you the keys to such a huge event? *
> 
> Tony Daniel: Was I surprised? Yes and no. I agreed back in the summer to be the artist for Battle for the Cowl so I knew I was working on the art. Initially, it was going to be a six issue mini-series going bi-weekly for three months. But we still hadn't nailed down who would write it. Then Mike Marts and I were talking about the project and I told them some ideas I had on how to make this big and exciting. My ideas just so happened to be very similar to what he was thinking too. I remember jokingly telling him, "Hey, you ought to just let me write it." And there was a silence on the other end of the phone (laughs). But I guess I got Mike's wheels turning and as we continued our conversation about the story, I just started getting pumped up and excited and all these ideas were starting to spill out.
> 
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 19, 2008)

got a link? :xzaru


----------



## Castiel (Dec 19, 2008)

continued



> *IGN Comics: When you look at what's going on with the whole post-RIP landscape and what's in store with Battle for the Cowl, there are a lot of basic similarities with the big post-Knightfall saga from the '90s. Bruce Wayne abandons the mantel of Batman for whatever reason, and then an assortment of characters vies to step into his shoes. With that being the case, did you go back and look at stories like Prodigal and Knightsquest to see what worked and what didn't work? *
> 
> Daniel: I spoke with Mike Marts about any similarities with Knightfall, and we felt that there weren't enough to warrant worrying about. As far as research, I've read enough Batman to have a good enough grasp on all the characters, and having read plenty of back-story, I feel like there's enough room for me to add my own layers to certain characters and still work within their personality. So the research is great to get an idea of a character's traits but you can't let it stifle you creatively either.
> 
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 19, 2008)

You posted the same thing twice.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 19, 2008)

dunno, didn't really follow Manhunter until the Andreyko series, anyways I do remember what that guy in the other forum said about being the new Azrael, sorta makes sense since Nicieza said it was "existing yet not well known character" plus Andreyko does have some connections with the Batbooks editors because of his Nightwing Annual


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 19, 2008)

It seems interesting enough.

Anyone looking forward to the Batwoman book? I'm not but if the supporting cast is from GCPD, or has Renee Montoya, I might check it out.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 19, 2008)

is that even confirmed?  Rucka seems to be mainly a one book at a time person, and he's on Action for a full year.

anyways I'll get it mainly to find out SOMETHING about Batwoman, I mean we know JACK SHIT about her aside from her name, she's rich and she's gay with Renee :xzaru


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 19, 2008)

Not 100% confirmed, but heavily hinted.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #683 preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 20, 2008)

The Daniel variant covers cost a shitload. $30 each.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

This continues to make no sense. I wonder why they switched from the original concept of Alfred retelling the Bruce to Batman story from his death bed? I expected RIP to be ctptic and confusing, but not the aftermath. For the most part Morrison's run has been pretty forward. 

I bet this isn't going to make much sense in tying RIP and FC together. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I wanted this to pick up directly from the helicopter crash.


Comic Book Guy said:


> The Daniel variant covers cost a shitload. $30 each.


and THIS is why I download comics. :xzaru


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

I think the Alfred stuff was either a smokescreen or a fuck up on DC's part (they likely read the basic premise and assumed that was what Morrison was going for) since Morrison was always saying that right after RIP he was going to tie in to FC.

also personally I expect Batman to bust out of "the matrix" at the end and then we'll get a "continued in Final Crisis #6" at the very end.


also personally I only buy what I truly, truly love the most like say Thor or GL


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> I think the Alfred stuff was either a smokescreen or a fuck up on DC's part


I bet it was an editorial decision. They didn't want to have to jump through hoops to bring him back to life like Marvel did after Morrison killed Magneto. 


Kilowog said:


> also personally I expect Batman to bust out of "the matrix" at the end and then we'll get a "continued in Final Crisis #6" at the very end.


Shouldn't that be continued in FC 5? I meen that's where they spoiled how Batman defeated the psycho-clone army or whatever


Kilowog said:


> also personally I only buy what I truly, truly love the most like say Thor or GL


I buy HCs and TPBs, it's cheaper.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

> Shouldn't that be continued in FC 5? I meen that's where they spoiled how Batman defeated the psycho-clone army or whatever



my guess:

stuff happens in Batman #683 ->scientists tell darkseid in FC #5 -> batman's "fate" occurs in #6



> I buy HCs and TPBs, it's cheaper.


depends on the company, most of the time they ammount to the about the same price, so I opt for buying the issues because dammit I want to read Thor fucking now, fuck you 0-day and your 4 hours waits


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> my guess:
> 
> stuff happens in Batman #683 ->scientists tell darkseid in FC #5 -> batman's "fate" occurs in #6


That sounds about right. The in FC 7 Batman will be like, "...first the Black Glove and then I get jacked into the Matrix. Fuck this hero shit. "


Kilowog said:


> depends on the company, most of the time they ammount to the about the same price


This is true. It depends on the company and format.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

that's kinda what I figure will happen, well between Superman punching the shit out of Darkseid


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> that's kinda what I figure will happen, *well between Superman punching the shit out of Darkseid *


That would be so lame. He's finally showing the power of a god and he get's punched and thrown in prison or some crap...


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

Superman will probably get boosted to match DS since he's "the first story".

Though I do wonder where Mandrakk will fall into all of this 

also Barry's role


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Superman will probably get boosted to match DS since he's "the first story".


I never thought of it that way. 


Kilowog said:


> Though I do wonder where Mandrakk will fall into all of this


I think he's gonna fight Darkseid for conrol of the ALE. 


Kilowog said:


> also Barry's role


Barry's role... Profit? :xzaru


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Wait. Wait. Wait. Superman was only supposed to be gone for a heartbeat, right? And Darkseid has ruled (or in the process of ruling) Earth for a month even if it was at an accelerated rate and only equates to a day, that's much longer than a heartbeat. Am I missing something...


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 20, 2008)

With the world falling into the 5th dimension, space and time doesn't really matter anymore.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

I bet at the end of FC, Superman will see lois dead and fly in the opposite direction of the earths rotation causing time to go backwards to save her. It worked in the Superman movie.


----------



## Kameil (Dec 20, 2008)

Lois goes like "Your Kryptonian penis justifies anti-life".


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Then uses a Kryptonite condom?


----------



## Kameil (Dec 20, 2008)

X-ray vision.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 20, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> I bet this isn't going to make much sense in tying RIP and FC together. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I wanted this to pick up directly from the helicopter crash.



Batman supposedly goes MIA after the helicopter crash, which in turn sparks the Battle for the Cowl bit.

However, by Final Crisis #1, which takes place 1 month after RIP, Bruce is still Batman.

So, either Batman resurfaces all fine and dandy after the helicopter crash AND THEN goes MIA in FC #6, which then leads into the Battle for the Cowl. . . or DC is getting as bad, if not worst than Marvel continuity.

Since Morrison is writing, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. . . but it's shaky.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

See that's why I keep telling myself RIP happens after FC. It makes more sense that way, Batman is also in the post-Final Crisis "JLA breaks up again" issue. So... double-U tee eff mate?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

DiDio said that FC #1 originally vaguely mentioned RIP but the editors felt that it wouldn't have been that difficult to figure out the ending so Morrison went for the "subtle route" whatever the fuck that means.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> DiDio said that FC #1 originally vaguely mentioned RIP but the editors felt that it wouldn't have been that difficult to figure out the ending so Morrison went for the "subtle route" whatever the fuck that means.


I bet the script was like. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Superman:* I heard you "died" in a helicopter crash?
*Batman:* ...
*Wonder Woman*: lulz


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2008)

Just started reading R.I.P. On Issue 677 now.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Genibus Nitito Canus said:


> Just started reading R.I.P. On Issue 677 now.


Oops. *adds spoiler tags


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Oops. *adds spoiler tags



Dun worry. I read, but didn't pay attention. 

Gotta love Batgod.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

ok here's a theory I came up with while waiting for this vid Im watching to "buffer"

RIP ends, Bruce pulls himself out of the water.  maybe he goes after the black glove, goes through some soul searching or whatever, maybe starts to consider giving it all up.  a few weeks later Orion is killed and the JLA sends out an alert, Bruce catches wind of it and decides to do "one last job" or "think it over while I do this" or maybe he just wanted Orion avenged ( ok maybe not "his name was Forager ")  then Granny kidnaps him and locks him in the matrix where they plan to create an army from his psyche.

I'd tinker with how Requiem works, but I'm too lazy.

also for the sake of my own sanity I won't try to fit in Last Will (even though it is canon).


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> ok here's a theory I came up with while waiting for this vid Im watching to "buffer"
> 
> RIP ends, Bruce pulls himself out of the water.  maybe he goes after the black glove, goes through some soul searching or whatever, maybe starts to consider giving it all up.  a few weeks later Orion is killed and the JLA sends out an alert, Bruce catches wind of it and decides to do "one last job" or "think it over while I do this"* or maybe he just wanted Orion avenged ( ok maybe not "his name was Forager ")  *then Granny kidnaps him and locks him in the matrix where they plan to create an army from his psyche.
> 
> ...


.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

Requiem makes sense more or less, only thing that causes me to go  is the batcave scene with Alfred, can't really explain that away at all since Alfred would have been making much more of a fuss, plus the cave didn't look trashed.

Last Will. well uh um, what, *head explodes*


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

I keep teling you, RIP happened afterward. One day you'll see the truth.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

who do I trust more?

a drug addicted, insane scotsman 

or 

some guy who might be black college student veteran, or might infact be a crazy white guy who works a desk job with a fetish for asian hookers or possibly a midget, who can really be sure?


----------



## Kameil (Dec 20, 2008)

Both they're very well educated.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> a korean transexual hooker with x-ray vision and the ability to fly?


The what now? 

Eidted post seems edited.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2008)

Huh. Win Win, this is?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

I realized that was kinda dumb so I tweaked it


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Genibus Nitito Canus said:


> Huh. Win Win, this is?



Robin and Damien never actually fight. 


Kilowog said:


> I realized that was kinda dumb so I tweaked it



I see.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

they fought in Batman & Son and sorta in Resurrection, but still what the hell ever happened to that idea?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

When were they supposed to team up, I vaguely remember reading something to that effect at the end of an issue but it never happened.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

it was in a solicit. it was something along the lines of "can they team up to find bruce, without killing each other"


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2008)

Batman and Bat-Mite? I sense some trouble in the air.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 20, 2008)

Speaking of Damien, this is the ugliest/manliest picture of a thirteen(?) year old boy that I've ever seen. 


In that comic his facial features kept switching fomr Asian to Bruce Wayne.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 20, 2008)

that's from the issue right before RIP right?

yep, that there is PART of the reason why the RIP BATO issues sucked so much.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yeah. That excessive cross hatching added to the over all horribleness....

 Is this Night winf or LeBossu?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 21, 2008)

I can handle crosshatching (I've learned to love Jim Lee and a lot of his more talented copycats) but still Benjamin is just kinda fugly at his worst, at his best he's meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 21, 2008)

I like cross hatching too. I meant that this douchebag uses it en excess and it really isn't helping. He should get carpal tunnel or fired. Whichever is worse.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 21, 2008)




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## ben (Dec 21, 2008)

killing off batman just doesn't make any sense at this point.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 21, 2008)

he's still alive


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 21, 2008)

or is he?


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Dec 21, 2008)

Or is he undead?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 21, 2008)

Did you finish reading RIP?


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Dec 21, 2008)

Oh, yes. Something tells me that he'll be back in a later issue. And then he'll pop up out of nowhere and just say it like he never left.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 21, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> I like cross hatching too. I meant that this douchebag uses it en excess and it really isn't helping.



Compared to Phil Jiminez's art, that's light. Although he imitates Perez, that guy cross-hatches like there's no freaking tomorrow.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 21, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> Speaking of Damien, this is the ugliest/manliest picture of a thirteen(?) year old boy that I've ever seen.
> 
> 
> In that comic his facial features kept switching fomr Asian to Bruce Wayne.



This is Daniel's work?

Anyway, has anyone read Batman: The Scottish Connection recently?  Even though the story is really horrible, Quietly's work is amazing.

He simply must work on Batman again.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 21, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> This is Daniel's work?



You best be jokin ghstwrld.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 21, 2008)

> This is Daniel's work?


the hell is wrong with you?

anyways that's Ryan Benjamin


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## Castiel (Dec 21, 2008)

> Anyway, has anyone read Batman: The Scottish Connection recently? Even though the story is really horrible, Quietly's work is amazing.


no, what's it about?

alos have you ever read Batman: Gothic?  it's Morrison's first Batman work


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 21, 2008)

It's kinda like Bruce Lee's Chinese Connection only with, you know, Scotts. :xzaru


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 21, 2008)

Batman goes to Scotland and hijinks ensue.  Keep in mind that lame description is twenty times more interesting than the actual story.  

No on the other story - though I keep on hearing good things about it.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 22, 2008)

oh the name brought to mind French Connection initially 

also you should check Gothic out, it was one of the first LotDK arcs, also it's close in style to his recent run of Batman


----------



## Kameil (Dec 22, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> oh the name brought to mind French Connection initially
> 
> also you should check Gothic out, it was one of the first LotDK arcs, also it's close in style to his recent run of Batman



You should throw Gothic in the dump then I wouldn't mind checking that out.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 22, 2008)

I read Gothic a while ago I don't remember much but for some reason I don't remember liking it. That's the one that opens upp with Batman fighting in the church right?

**EDIT*
I guess I'll find out in 7 minutes.


----------



## Kameil (Dec 22, 2008)

Thanks Kiloness. 

Time to go read Gothic.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 22, 2008)

A short interview about the Oracle mini.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 22, 2008)

While I love Don Kramer's art, Superman and Batman vs Vampires and Werewolves is dumb. I have no faith in the book but I'll  check it out for the art


----------



## Castiel (Dec 22, 2008)

another Daniels interview, he gives out a couple more details.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 23, 2008)

So, Batman 666.  WTF?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 23, 2008)

You know what. I think Batman RIP was set up and ended the way that it did for sake of the readers. Some people for what ever reason (money, hd space, disinterest) just won't read Final Crisis. So if you stopped at the last issue of RIP (Batman 681) and moved on to the other Gotham City/Batman influenced stories (BATO, Robin or Nightwing), you get a sense of closure.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 24, 2008)

*That pick looks dope*


*Spoiler*: _BftC_ 






A) The "J" on the Joker card is backwards.
B) The Batman with the yellow chest oval on the left has a bo staff, so that's probably Tim. He seems to be wearing the Batman costume that Bruce wore when Tim became Robin.
C) Harley, lamenting the Joker's absence? Seems kind of crazy, but Daniel is definitely aware of all of Grant's run so it'll probably follow from that.
D) Alfred Pennyworth, loaded for bear. He looks pretty great here, actually.
E) Almost definitely Dick Grayson, wearing the Batman costume that Bruce wore when Dick first became Robin.
F) RIP.
G) Two-Face, no doubt, especially since he's positioned right in front of the penny. Probably following up on his time as Gotham's protector during 52, as shown in James Robinson's "Face the Face" arc.
H) Jason Todd who else would have a costume that 90s EXTREME!!! ?, apparently standing over the coffin of Wayne Enterprises. (Whose arm is that coming out of the coffin - Bruce's? It looks like a woman's...)
I) Batwoman, apparently investigating something, judging by the magnifying glass. I doubt she's actually battling for the cowl (and neither are Harley and Alfred), but she'll probably play a fairly major role.
J) Damian, lookin' sly, tuggin' on the bandage around the leg of...
K) "Bruce Wayne", who, judging by the bandage, is probably actually Hush, who performed plastic surgery on himself to look like Bruce Wayne back in the "Heart of Hush" arc in Paul Dini's Detective Comics. I assume Damian's using Hush to angle for a place in Bruce Wayne's will, or a spot in Wayne Enterprises or something.

Did I miss anything?


Robin (Batman), Nightwing (Batman) and Jason Todd (Batman)!


----------



## Kameil (Dec 24, 2008)

Aww where's the suit of sorrows.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 24, 2008)

I notice a serious lack of Terry McGinnis in that picture.


----------



## Kameil (Dec 24, 2008)

Fuck Terry and his bullshit. 

He deserves his own picture he's so epic.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 24, 2008)

Kameil said:


> Aww where's the suit of sorrows.


Azreal is getting his own mini that parallels BftC. He won't be actually taking part in Tony Daniel's mini. 


ghstwrld said:


> I notice a serious lack of Terry McGinnis in that picture.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 24, 2008)

Cassandra Cain is noticeably absent as well.


----------



## Kameil (Dec 24, 2008)

You're such an ass.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 24, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> Cassandra Cain is noticeably absent as well.



In before CBG.


----------



## Ronin (Dec 24, 2008)

Why is Damian pulling on Hushs' bandages like that? It makes me think weird naughty thoughts...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 24, 2008)

It's probably symbolizing that Damian is using Hush to accomplish his goals, and not the other way around.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 24, 2008)

also, rape.


----------



## Kameil (Dec 24, 2008)

The Hush rape.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 24, 2008)

I think Hush is the victim.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 24, 2008)

they fixed Tyranno 

Alfred looks French 

who's in the crate?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 24, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> Alfred looks French



The United States Army disagrees. 
*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Castiel (Dec 24, 2008)

> A beret (pronounced [be'rɛ] in French or /ˈbɛreɪ/ in English[1], except in the USA, where it is usually pronounced /bəˈreɪ/[2]) is a soft round cap, usually of wool felt, with a flat crown, which is worn by both men and women and traditionally associated with France.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 24, 2008)

No shit. I know it originated in France but our Soldiers wear them.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 24, 2008)

replace the gun with a cigarette and you have to admit Alfred loos frenchy


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 24, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> replace the gun with a cigarette and you have to admit Alfred loos *frenchy*


               .


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 24, 2008)

Sooo... I read the final Morrison issue for 2008, and just as I predicted, it made no fucking sense. Maybe the last arc should've come with an audio file or something. I couldn't understand who was narrating the story. Was it The Lump/Alfred or the real Alfred? Half was true the other was hallicination but it all was confusing. 

*After a second read*
lulz at Dick being found dead in the cave. I guess this plot bridging story kinda makes sense but (if I paid for comics) I'd rather not buy into another series, two issues from the end, just to see what happens to Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 24, 2008)

just read #683, I have don't have a firm grasp of everything that happened but I still like it a lot for some reason I barely understand 





Kilowog said:


> ok here's a theory I came up with while waiting for this vid Im watching to "buffer"
> 
> RIP ends, Bruce pulls himself out of the water.  maybe he goes after the black glove, goes through some soul searching or whatever, maybe starts to consider giving it all up.  a few weeks later Orion is killed and the JLA sends out an alert, Bruce catches wind of it and decides to do "one last job" or "think it over while I do this" or maybe he just wanted Orion avenged ( ok maybe not "his name was Forager ")  then Granny kidnaps him and locks him in the matrix where they plan to create an army from his psyche.
> 
> ...




I called it :ho





LIL_M0 said:


> You know what. I think Batman RIP was set up and ended the way that it did for sake of the readers. Some people for what ever reason (money, hd space, disinterest) just won't read Final Crisis. So if you stopped at the last issue of RIP (Batman 681) and moved on to the other Gotham City/Batman influenced stories (BATO, Robin or Nightwing), you get a sense of closure.



DiDio flat out said this in one of his interviews with Newsarama


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 25, 2008)

Read Funnybook Babylon's thorough write-up of 683 if you're totally lost.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 25, 2008)

that was very enlightening 



> the fourth panel seems to be a generic reference to Tim Drake starting to work officially as Robin,


i'm half certain this might be a vague reference to Robin: Year One.  though I don't think Morrison actually READ it.



> Page 17: First panel is the ?No Man?s Land? crossover event, where Gotham was hit by an earthquake, Arkham was let loose and the government withheld federal aid for a year. The third panel is Batman fighting Hush in Batman #619 by Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee; the last panel is the death of Jack Drake, Tim?s father, in Identity Crisis #6 by Brad Meltzer and Rags Morales.


he missed the middle panel which is from War Games


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 25, 2008)

ghstwrld said:


> Cassandra Cain is noticeably absent as well.





LIL_M0 said:


> In before CBG.



So damn true.

Although, by the end of her series, she gave up the mantle. . .

IMO, I'd have Cassandra take up the Kasumi identity again.

Plus. . . I think it's just candidates who literally take up the cowl.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 25, 2008)

Morrison spent so much time reading all of Batman from the 30's to the 80's that he just went "fuck it I think I know the gist of it" 


edit: for those who click ghst's link here's the first part


----------



## Castiel (Dec 25, 2008)

> G) Two-Face, no doubt, especially since he’s positioned right in front of the penny, and he’s covering what would be the scarred side of his face. Probably following up on his time as Gotham’s protector during 52, as shown in James Robinson’s “Face the Face” arc.



funny how it didn't occur to me till now.  he has been showing up a lot as Dick's nemesis and we know he broke out of Arkham (O'Neil's issue)

also if you haven't done so, GO READ FACE THE FACE, it's pretty good



> H) Jason Todd (who else would have a costume that fucking stupid with all those guns),


----------



## mow (Dec 25, 2008)

god damn this is just too fucking god that my my fingers are shaking. all comic books need to be this damn good >_<


----------



## WarriorS (Dec 25, 2008)

A few things:

1) I don't think Batman w/guns is Todd. Looks a lot more like the third Batman from the Black Casebook. Considering he's around when Damien takes up the mantle, he's obviously survived the helicopter crash.

2) Wow, #683 absolutely exceeded my expectations. It really did tie everything together. I love the part about the obituary, as well. It fits into the title of the last issue, which is something like a quadruple entendre. Excellent.

3) M0: All the narration is from the _real_ Alfred reflecting back on Bruce's career. The Alfred in the memories, fake or otherwise, is the Lump. It's only the Lump if we actually _see_ Alfred talking. Does that clear things up?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 25, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> DiDio flat out said this in one of his interviews with Newsarama


It's because I'm really Dan Didio... 

lol.B&


----------



## Kameil (Dec 26, 2008)

LIL_M0 said:


> It's because I'm really Dan Didio...
> 
> lol.B&



I wouldn't say you are considering you pounded that dear man's minger wife.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 26, 2008)

bampersand isn't a word


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 26, 2008)

Kameil said:


> I wouldn't say you are considering you pounded that dear man's minger wife.


Beer goggles my friend. Totally justified. 


Kilowog said:


> bampersand isn't a word


phonetically pronounced "band"


----------



## Castiel (Dec 26, 2008)

that wasn't a bear goggles thing, they went on several dates, it's not just a sex affair.

also you fool it's supposed to be pronounced "band"


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 26, 2008)

And you misspelled beer =)


----------



## Castiel (Dec 26, 2008)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 26, 2008)

It's no longer spelled b-e-e-r? 

Oh, you meant kilowog. lol Bear goggles remind me of Disney's Tailspin cartoon.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 26, 2008)

I loved that series it was neat reinvention of Jungle Book, but with airplanes 

also Tony Daniels talks about the teaser image, will only flat out confirm that the far left is Tim


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 26, 2008)

Also, look at the far left. Do you see the broken wheelchair behind Hush? I think Oracle is either going to die or get the Charles Xavier "miracle" treatment.

djgonzo


----------



## Castiel (Dec 26, 2008)

it's funny, I completely forgot the 3rd Man existed


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 26, 2008)

3rd man will most likely have survived the crash if Batman 666 is supposed to be the future. That has me thinking, Morrison is taking over again after BftC maybe this was a teaser for BftC: Damian, Dick and Tim?

and This will happen sometime in the future... like 2010.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 26, 2008)

Morrison was vague he just said that he IS coming back in 2009 and that he "knows who wins the battle", I think he told Daniel and said "do your best, I'm gonna go do drugs on the couch"

also Tim has an oval chest thingy.


also I can't shake the feeling that Morrison told Johns all of his plans and Johns was waving it in our face during Action #865


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 26, 2008)

I'm thinking the yellow oval thing was a Daniels "add-on" cause Kubert was lead artist for Batman at the time and for that issue. 

I lol'd at the part of AC where Superman was like "You know what they call us in the future Bruce? The Worlds Finest." and Time Master (or whatever his name is) was like "Oh Clark, they don't even know Batman exists in the future."


----------



## Castiel (Dec 26, 2008)

he said "they barely remember him", they did mention him in school with the other earth heroes but at that point it would be like people giving a shit about the generals who fought against Napoleon, when really people are only going to remember Wellington


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 26, 2008)

I was paraphrasing. I couldn't exactly remember what he said but it still made me laugh.  Also. I'm not too sure but the history lesson thing seems possible. For that, my friend, you get rep. 

*EDIT*
lol repsealed.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 26, 2008)

that's why I got banned, some stupid mod saw repseal and though "ban"


----------



## Kameil (Dec 27, 2008)

That's homo.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 29, 2008)

Nicieza has another lengthy interview about Azrael, Gotham Gazette and Robin


also this has lulz


----------



## Yoshi (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm sorry to seem stupid but AC = ?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 29, 2008)

Action Comics?


----------



## Yoshi (Dec 29, 2008)

Oh yeah. Seems so simple now.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 29, 2008)

I like how all these RIP "tie-ins" that had jack shit to do with the RIP arc actually end up being important later for BftC.

ex: Hush now looking like Bruce, Batgirl and Dick setting up the network, Two-Face being re-established as a major villain.


Also Ra's Al Ghul is coming back, plus Talia is going after Azrael


----------



## Castiel (Dec 31, 2008)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #684 preview_


----------



## Kameil (Dec 31, 2008)

Some bum jacked Dick's bike too hilarious.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 31, 2008)

Nightwing "Last Rites" >>> Batman/Detective Comics "Last rites"

however

Alex Ross' "Last Rites" cover >>>> Tony Daniel's "Last Rites" cover


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)




----------



## Darth Nihilus (Dec 31, 2008)

Just read 683. Awesome


----------



## Castiel (Jan 1, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Nightwing "Last Rites" >>> Batman/Detective Comics "Last rites"
> 
> however
> 
> Alex Ross' "Last Rites" cover >>>> Tony Daniel's "Last Rites" cover



agreeing with both, but I do still enjoy the O'Neil story, not one of my favorites but I dom't dislike it


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 1, 2009)

Yeah, I don't dislike "Last Days of Gotham" either. It just seems... different. I know it's a different writer. Tomasi's NW wasn't all "woe is me", he just kicked ass. Even in BATO, he just kicked ass. Maybe this is supposed to be one of the stages of depression. If so, it's acceptable.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 1, 2009)

I like that whole stage of depression angle, it makes sense.  so BATO was anger 


also i chalk it up to O'Neil being out of the loop, he's not a DC employee anymore he's a freelancer so I guess the editors didn't tell him details about BftC, just gave him cliffnotes.  But despite this he was able to run with it and make a decent story, see that shitty writers?  that's how you do it, not making shit up cause you want a paycheck


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 1, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I like that whole stage of depression angle, it makes sense.  so BATO was anger
> 
> 
> also i chalk it up to O'Neil being out of the loop, he's not a DC employee anymore he's a freelancer so I guess the editors didn't tell him details about BftC, just gave him cliffnotes.  But despite this he was able to run with it and make a decent story, see that shitty writers?  that's how you do it, not making shit up cause you want a paycheck



Who would do such a thing?


----------



## Rod (Jan 1, 2009)

I wonder how many months until Bruce is back.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Jan 1, 2009)

Want to read Last Rites #2. 

I'll get it soon enough though.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 2, 2009)

"and if I hear anything else outta ya, you'll look like Two-Face... On both sides." :rofl


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2009)

yet another Nicieza interview


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 2, 2009)

Wow. Besides that one funny line from "Two-Face", Last Days of Gotham was incredibly... 

Boring? No. 

Meaningless? No. 

A mediocre tale story that should never have been told that will most likely be over shadowed with the coming of the rest of this years awesome Bat-stories? Yes.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2009)

above is truth

but it does my heart good that even though it's been over a decade since he's written these characters, he can still do something "mediocre", I've seen people who revisit their old characters that they wrote a few months ago and write SHIT.

but still it could have been a lot better,

now it's time for Dini and Nguyen to dazzle us with another great Hush story


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 2, 2009)

Yeah dazzle us because RIP Hush >>>>>>>>>>> Last Days.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2009)

well RIP Hush was a 5 parter and Last Days was 2 

but still the last few pages of Heart of Hush really pumped me for this story.  WHAT WILL HUSH DO WITHOUT MONAIZ


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 2, 2009)

LOL!!! He was so boned after what Catwoman did to him.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2009)

I wonder though if Selina will go ahead and kill Hush now, I mean she has killed people for much less (coughblackmaskcough)


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 2, 2009)

Somethings are much worse than death. I mean, if someone cut out my heart. I wouldn't kill them.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2009)

I agree, but I mean Catwoman killed Black Mask because he threatened to maybe kill one of her friends (he was bluffing) and Catwoman just flat out murdered him.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Yeah, I don't dislike "Last Days of Gotham" either. It just seems... different. I know it's a different writer. Tomasi's NW wasn't all "woe is me", he just kicked ass. Even in BATO, he just kicked ass. Maybe this is supposed to be one of the stages of depression. If so, it's acceptable.



rereading to story with this context made it better imho, since it was basically Dick coming out of his funk at the end and getting closer to ACCEPTANCE (putting on a Batman costume for bftc)

making the Great Leap was him in DENIAL (a bit of a stretch i know) and BATO is most definitely ANGER


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 2, 2009)

Yeah the end was definately acceptance, but I can't really find denial either. Maybe they split the emotions between the two characters. Robin seems to be in the Bargaining stage about now... Maybe Alfed is denying it.


----------



## Mangekyou28Sharingan (Jan 2, 2009)

I think Dick will be the next Batman. Who knows, it might be the next reason why they cancelled his Nightwing series


----------



## Kinjishi (Jan 3, 2009)

Why was there no Batman in my Batmn comic? No disrespect to Nightwing or Denny O'Neil, but I didn't give two shits about this story. It wasn't terrible, I just didn't care, especially since there are much more interesting things concerning Batman, both now and in the coming months.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 3, 2009)

'Cus it's after RIP, so he's dead/captured/missing, maybe sorta.


----------



## Kinjishi (Jan 3, 2009)

Nah, it's been stated that he's alive post R.I.P, and I don't think this is a post Final Crisis story (or is it? ), so he should be alive and still Batman.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 3, 2009)

I was making fun of how unclear the timeline between FC and RIP (and everything else that ties into them) is.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 3, 2009)

Yeah, that two-parter that Morrison did to bridge the gap was stupid and only managed to piss me off. I'd rather I hadn't read it and just came up with my own timeline.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 3, 2009)

Long story short, Batman survived the helicopter crash, went straight to the Batcave to chat with Alfred, and then to JLA headquarters to investigate Orion's murder.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 6, 2009)

yet ANOTHER Nicieza interview


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 7, 2009)

So I just read it...after listening to some podcasts, then read all the non hush ancillary stories...and it really is all over the place.  I mean, that's sorta how my brain works so it's kinda ok, but really Morrisson was all over the place.

I loved it, though once I realized time had skips in the comic.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 7, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #852 preview_


----------



## WarriorS (Jan 7, 2009)

Paul Dini is the wind beneath my wings. My God, I love what he's done with Hush so much...


----------



## Rod (Jan 8, 2009)

> Fabian Nicieza: Nope. Apparently he died and dead means dead in comics.



Laughing out loud.


----------



## mow (Jan 8, 2009)

god i hate that cover. why couldnt they get Alex Ross to do it?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 8, 2009)

mow said:


> god i hate that cover. why couldnt they get Alex Ross to do it?



Maybe Ross was tired of doing such covers. Not sure the reason why.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 8, 2009)

he's doing the Catwoman cover


----------



## Castiel (Jan 8, 2009)

I really liked this issue, it was well written, I liked the way Dini wrote Hush's narrations.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 8, 2009)

I concede. Dini's Hush story is leaps and bounds beyond the original Hush story. Thinking back, the only reason I liked the original Hush story so much was because of the "return" of Jason Todd. I thought that the character Hush in himself was way to "90's EXTREME!!!!!!! " to enjoy.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 8, 2009)

IMO, Lee's art carried the story. Literally.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 8, 2009)

After a second read it really hits me just how plain EVIL Hush is, I mean most Bat villains are either crazy or damaged in some ways, but Hush is just a despicable human being.  Kudus to Dini to pulling this off so seemlessly.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 8, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> IMO, Lee's art carried the story. Literally.



It really did. 


Kilowog said:


> After a second read it really hits me just how plain EVIL Hush is, I mean most Bat villains are either crazy or damaged in some ways, but Hush is just a despicable human being.  Kudus to Dini to pulling this off so seemlessly.



Yeah. I was thinking the same. I re-read DC: RIP then FOE and I was like "Well damn. "


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 8, 2009)

Imagine if Dini wrote Hush instead of Loeb. . .


----------



## qks (Jan 8, 2009)

edit wrong topic


----------



## Castiel (Jan 10, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Nightwing #152 preview_ 
















Tomasi is the best Nightwing writer ever, but where is RAG?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 10, 2009)

Ras is gonna pop up in the last panel and say, "THIS... is the face of evil. "

Also, I'm pretty sure that the green boxes are Ras' narrations


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 10, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Ras is gonna pop up in the last panel and say, "THIS... is the face of evil. "
> 
> Also, I'm pretty sure that the green boxes are Ras' narrations



Hush vs. Ra's al Ghul in who fights for Bruce Wayne. . .

Hey, a reader can dream.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2009)

Nightwing #152 was really, really good.

Tomasi is the best Nightwing writer.  EVER.


the Ra's Al Ghul scene was as good, if not better than the Two-Face scene last issue.


----------



## Yoshi (Jan 14, 2009)

I liked the story, but still I ask why do you like Nightwing? I just don't feel comfortable with his character.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2009)

I didn't use to, then I picked up some old Chuck Dixon tpb and really started to like the character.  Also Tomasi has done fucking great with this book.

also I loved the last line

"welcome to the hole, Detective"


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 14, 2009)

I like NW cause he stopped being Robin and put some pants on.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 14, 2009)

*New Grant Morrison interview...*

Link removed


----------



## Kameil (Jan 14, 2009)

Who's going to be the new batty now?


----------



## WarriorS (Jan 14, 2009)

Grant Morrison said:
			
		

> On the soap box side of things, for me, there's been a long [stretch] of comics trying to be about the streets and about realism and dealing with the Bush Administration. We wanted to follow more popular culture, which is going in a more psychedelic direction, to use the want of a better word. I think things are starting to get a bit crazier again and people are enjoying stuff a little bit more—the fantastical and demanding of the imagination.



I actually agree with this to an extent. I'm tired of seeing the US government always basically turn into the Evil Empire. Can we please all stop trying to imitate _The Ultimates_ already?



			
				Grant Morrison said:
			
		

> Yeah. In particular with superhero comics. Once you've seen "Iron Man" and "The Dark Knight," why bother doing realistic superheroes because now the movies can do them better than anyone. I kind of feel that what it does is free up comics to be a little bit wilder. We've got great artists who can sit there with their pencils and draw anything. They're not limited by budgets. We shouldn't be following the storytelling techniques of Hollywood because they can do it really well. Comics can do all kinds of other things. They can be really crazy and wild and can really stretch the imagination and be really progressive.



What do people think about this? I agree with making it a bit wilder, opening this up a little... but I think there is something to be said about good, down-to-Earth comics. _Captain America_, _Checkmate_, _Detective Comics_, _Daredevil_, _Gotham Central_... I like them offsetting the more fantastical stuff. Frankly, I think it's proof positive that comics are one of the most versatile forms of media currently in use today: Batman can be using his Batrocket to fight Ninja Manbats in one instance... but still go around and do a good noir story with the Riddler as an ally.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 14, 2009)

Kameil said:


> Who's going to be the new batty now?



Me.


----------



## Kameil (Jan 14, 2009)

Tag along with a sidekick named wondergirl equipped with testicular fortitude.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 15, 2009)

*Who'll win Battle for the Cowl? 2.0*

Since a lot has taken place from the time we all casted our original votes I thought I'd ask again.

*Who'll win Battle for the Cowl?*

*Alfred*
*Dick Grayson*
*Jason Todd*
*Tim Drake*
*Damian Wayne*
*Hush*
*Azrael*
*Harvey Dent*
*Two Face*
*Dan Didio*
or
*Spoiler*: _Bruce Wayne_


----------



## Kameil (Jan 15, 2009)

That's fucked up.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 15, 2009)

But he could still win.


----------



## Kameil (Jan 15, 2009)

Black Lantern = Revival.


----------



## The Rook (Jan 15, 2009)

Really, I'd prefer no one taking up the mantle, but I guess Dick is the most likely candidate.  A huge characteristic of Bat-Family members has been the desire to be less like Batman.  I wonder what is going to happen to Tim after BFtC.  I don't expect him to be Robin, but I don't see him taking up the title of Batman (especially after reading John's run on Teen Titans).  It'd be ridiculous for Robin to take up Nightwing.  I'm actually kind of liking the idea of him being Red Robin.

Another question:

What do you think the chances are Ra's bring Bruce back to life in some manner?


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 15, 2009)

WarriorS said:


> What do people think about this? I agree with making it a bit wilder, opening this up a little... but I think there is something to be said about good, down-to-Earth comics. _Captain America_, _Checkmate_, _Detective Comics_, _Daredevil_, _Gotham Central_... I like them offsetting the more fantastical stuff. Frankly, I think it's proof positive that comics are one of the most versatile forms of media currently in use today: Batman can be using his Batrocket to fight Ninja Manbats in one instance... but still go around and do a good noir story with the Riddler as an ally.



I think it depends on the book. Some of them, especially a lot of marvel books, work best when they have a more realistic slant to them. Batman can work either way though I guess, which is probably why GM talks about his decision to go with some really 'high concept' Batman stuff.


----------



## Kameil (Jan 15, 2009)

Ra's might do it in a heartbeat but yet it would be so unexpected.


----------



## WarriorS (Jan 15, 2009)

You can't bring him back. His body may be dead, but his mind is trapped in the Omega Sanction. Check _Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle_; he's trapped in an endless procession of existences, each more soul-crushing than the last.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 15, 2009)

The Rook said:


> What do you think the chances are Ra's bring Bruce back to life in some manner?


Ras wants to, but Dick won't let him... because he's a dick.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 15, 2009)

For my reasoning as to why Dick shouled be the next Batman, read Nightwing #152


----------



## Taleran (Jan 15, 2009)

when I think of recent Batman I think of this quote



			
				Matt Fraction said:
			
		

> Have you read Grant Morrison's Batman run? It's a pretty spectacular example of this -- using Batman as frame of reference for Batman. The gag is that everything that's happened in the Batman comic actually happened to Batman, right? And what would that do to a human mind? From the bleak noir stuff to the bam-sock-pow stuff and everything in between. He's using the whole history of the character to comment on the character as the character endures it. And to comment on the comics mainstream, and on heroes, and all that great stuff. I mean, the first fight scene takes place in an art gallery during a Pop Art retrospective where these faux-Lichtenstein paintings of comics are commenting on the comic we're reading as we're reading it, for god's sake. And as the run went on, Morrison really used the entirety of the character's history as a frame of reference and context to comment on the character. Batman-as-Batman-as-Pop-Culture-in-toto. It's a mess, and a glorious one at that, and his reach might have exceeded his grasp for a couple reasons not exactly germane to this discussion, but it's been a pretty amazing piece, all the same.


----------



## The Rook (Jan 15, 2009)

WarriorS said:


> You can't bring him back. His body may be dead, but his mind is trapped in the Omega Sanction. Check _Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle_; he's trapped in an endless procession of existences, each more soul-crushing than the last.



He's Batman, he plans for everything.  He created another mind to inhabit his lifeless body on the off chance his mind is trapped in a never ending series of existences.

Zur-en-Arh


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> For my reasoning as to why Dick shouled be the next Batman, read Nightwing #152



Yeah. It's not looking good for my boy Tim 


The Rook said:


> He's Batman, he plans for everything.
> 
> Zur-en-Arh


He planned to die too. The bullet was also laced with "invincibillium" that altered Darkseids beams. Now Bruce is invincible.


----------



## Kameil (Jan 15, 2009)

Awesome to the max.


----------



## The Rook (Jan 15, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Yeah. It's not looking good for my boy Tim


  He was my favorite for the cowl, until I read John's Teen Titans.


> He planned to die too. The bullet was also laced with "invincibillium" that altered Darkseids beams. Now Bruce is invincible.



He also felt the need to stage his death, allowing him to show up alive a well during Blackest Night.  Or as it will now be known, "Blackest Knight."


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 15, 2009)

Kameil said:


> Awesome to the max.


The zombie max?! 


The Rook said:


> He was my favorite for the cowl, until I read John's Teen Titans.


You didn't like Johns TT? Robin was Batman in Titans of Tomorrow. 


The Rook said:


> He also felt the need to stage his death, allowing him to show up alive a well during Blackest Night.  Or as it will now be known, "Blackest Knight."


He did the "Booster Gold" he traveled to the future, dug up his bones, brought them back to the present and left them there in costume  for the superhero community to find.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 15, 2009)

Taleran said:


> when I think of recent Batman I think of this quote



nice quote, always did like that Fraction guy

also where's it from?



LIL_M0 said:


> Yeah. It's not looking good for my boy Tim



no it doesn't, I mean how do you top Ra's Al Ghul and (sorta) Two-Face's  acceptance as the new bat?

I mean even the joker can'r sway it to his side


----------



## The Rook (Jan 15, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> You didn't like Johns TT? Robin was Batman in Titans of Tomorrow.


Is it actually possible to not like something written by Johns?  I'm fairly convinced he can write an issue about someone walking down to the 7/11 for a lottery ticket and everyone here would love it.  Teen Titans was awesome, but I don't see Tim taking up the mantle after seeing what monster he could become.




> He did the "Booster Gold" he traveled to the future, dug up his bones, brought them back to the present and left them there in costume  for the superhero community to find.




Batman was the one who was the one who talk Rip Hunter that trick just for the off chance a time traveling super hero will need to fake his death so he could pretend to be another hero in order to assemble pieces to take down his renegade robot companion.

The guy sleeps two hours a night; that leaves someone a lot of time to think.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 15, 2009)

If the Joker says it's so, then Tim will be Batman.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 15, 2009)

I actually did not at all care for John's Teen Titans.


----------



## The Rook (Jan 15, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> I actually did not at all care for John's Teen Titans.


I have the strong urge to neg you.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 15, 2009)

To be honest, I never read all of John's TT. I only read Titans of Tomorrow and the two Brother Blood related story arcs.


----------



## The Rook (Jan 15, 2009)

I read the entire run a couple days ago.  If anyone wants, I can rar it and give them a link direct them to a comic book store that sells it.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 15, 2009)

I, too, know of such stores.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 15, 2009)

I liked it well enough, I mean it doesn't come close to Green Lantern or even The Flash but I still enjoyed his run overall.


----------



## The Rook (Jan 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I liked it well enough, I mean it doesn't come close to Green Lantern or even The Flash but I still enjoyed his run overall.


I don't really read Teen Titans.  The only thing I've read were two or three (and that's two or three too many) issues of Winick's Titans.

The juxtaposition of those two titles probably made reading Johns' run a lot more enjoyable.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 15, 2009)

The Rook said:


> I have the strong urge to neg you.





I was really surprised actually, I went into it thinking I would really like it. I mean, it was by GJ, it had Robin, what could go wrong? But all the character development was basically spent on characters like Red Devil, who I just don't give a darn about. And as I've previously established, I really don't like time-travel stories. 

And what was up with Robin trying to clone Superboy? It was like something out of a really bad soap opera. A gay soap opera. Honestly can't remember if that was Johns or the guy who came after him.


----------



## the_ilest (Jan 15, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> I was really surprised actually, I went into it thinking I would really like it. I mean, it was by GJ, it had Robin, what could go wrong? But all the character development was basically spent on characters like Red Devil, who I just don't give a darn about. And as I've previously established, I really don't like time-travel stories.
> 
> And what was up with Robin trying to clone Superboy? It was like something out of a really bad soap opera. A gay soap opera. Honestly can't remember if that was Johns or the guy who came after him.



very true but the the thing that killed it for me was the year long events tie-ins i stoped reading TT around 53 when the TT from the future came back and They where fighting the Mind Control Starfishes.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 15, 2009)

All hail the Spoiler Puppy.

fear him.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 15, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> And what was up with Robin trying to clone Superboy? It was like something out of a really bad soap opera. A gay soap opera. Honestly can't remember if that was Johns or the guy who came after him.



Johns -- he wrote OYL.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 15, 2009)

Ok well then... FAIL JOHNS! FAIL! 

But whatever, I forgave Bendis for SI. I can certainly forgive Johns for Teen Titans OYL.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

this thread needs more praise of Nightwing 


also I'm now convinced that Gaiman's story will be about what would have happened to Batman had he lived a full life, like Moore's story was.

hope Bruce has as happy an ending as Clark did.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

I'm convinced that Gaiman's story will be better than Denny's. 

*insert Nightwing praises here*


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

it probably will be.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

Watching slugs eat leaves is better than Denny's story. 

*insert Nightwing praises here*


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

it wasn't _that_ bad, i'd put it just barely above the slugs.  snails > slugs


also I'm curious as to how Gaiman will write his story, I mean I know Sandman is hands down one of the absolute best comic books ever in history but his more recent stuff with Marvel while good wasn't "great" imho.  Eternals could have been a lot better (still livked) it and 1602, well I blame the editors for my misgivings with that series so I'll let hm slide on that.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

Based on  it seems like it will be a refresher on the life and times of the Batman. If so, I hope it's more coherent than Morison's Final Crisis tie-in.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

Gaiman's story arc is called "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?", and Gaiman is like the biggest Alan Moore fan in the world.  Odds are he's going to "rip off" "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

that was a "what if CoIE never happened and Superman lived his life"


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

So this is what if RIP/ FC happened and Bats lived a full life? Grows old? Has a cane? Terry McGinness?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

i'd imagine so.  the old Alan Moore story showed:

Supes' ID getting revealed
Death of his major villains
Deaths of his major friends
his last meeting with the LoSH
him losing his powers
being old and having kids with Lois


I'd imagine Gaiman will do something similar to this, but you know put his own Gaiman spin to it.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

What is the "Gaiman spin" exactly? Is his writing mostly weird? I read Eternals, well one of them. Did he do the MAX series? That shit was extra weird.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

no, he's more of a fantasy writer. Only stuff I think he did for Marvel was Eternals and 1602.

He's also one of the guy who helped create Vertigo.

Sandman + Books of Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 87% of all other comics ever


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 16, 2009)

^ You referring to the run or the original 4-issue mini handled by Gaiman?


----------



## mow (Jan 16, 2009)

and the same goes to his novels. American Gods + Neverwhere + Good Omens (w/ Terry Patchet) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 87% of all other books ever.

Im always suprised that no one ever mentions his other works with Dave McKean, such as Black Orchid, Violent Cases, Signal to Noise & The Tragical Comedy or Comical Tragedy of Mr. Punch. those graphic novels are surreal, both art and topic wise.

anyhow it's pointless telling nametiwn about vertigo, for he is to busy stuffing tissue in his ears whilst reading BND


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

Charmin extra soft.


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Jan 16, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Terry McGinness?


That would be awesome. He showed up like once in Countdown.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

> ^ You referring to the run or the original 4-issue mini handled by Gaiman?



everything Gaiman himself wrote, but yes specifically the 1st mini.


----------



## the_ilest (Jan 16, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Sandman + Books of Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 87% of all other comics ever


 + star dust 



Jugglenaut said:


> That would be awesome. He showed up like once in Countdown.


 Terry is played out.



LIL_M0 said:


> Charmin extra soft.


 how about Terry's face

Gaiman needs to go back on "drugs" so he can go back to writing those crazy weird stories fantasy stories.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 16, 2009)

mow said:


> and the same goes to his novels. American Gods + Neverwhere + Good Omens (w/ Terry Patchet) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 87% of all other books ever.
> 
> Im always suprised that no one ever mentions his other works with Dave McKean, such as *Black Orchid*, Violent Cases, Signal to Noise & The Tragical Comedy or Comical Tragedy of Mr. Punch. those graphic novels are surreal, both art and topic wise.
> 
> anyhow it's pointless telling nametiwn about vertigo, for he is to busy stuffing tissue in his ears whilst reading BND



Black Orchid is SO DAMN GOOD.

At least, for me.


----------



## Bender (Jan 16, 2009)

Bruce ain't dead


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Bruce ain't dead



I know! Just look at how spry and youthful he looks here. 

*Spoiler*: _Bruce Wayne_


----------



## The Rook (Jan 16, 2009)

Bruce just wanted to come up with a new appearance. 

You know Harvey is going to want vengeance; he has been one-upped.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

The Rook said:


> Bruce just wanted to come up with a new appearance.
> 
> You know Harvey is going to want vengeance; he has been one-upped.


I seriously, SERIOUSLY, laughed till my side hurts... You bastard.


----------



## The Rook (Jan 16, 2009)

You're welcome.


----------



## Bender (Jan 16, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I know! Just look at how spry and youthful he looks here.
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Bruce Wayne_





That body is a motherfucking substitute 

And don't hit me with that Robin Nightwing and them couldn't do it because it is and ..... *sniffle*   *sniffle* HE AIN'T DEAD!


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

I would seriously lol if I were a criminal and skeleton-bats tried to stop me from doing crime.


----------



## The Rook (Jan 16, 2009)

Well you just spoiled the plot for Blackest Night.


----------



## Bender (Jan 16, 2009)

Fuck Fuck fuck Fuck 

Dammit! He can't be dead!   

Who,ll be the new Batman now?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 16, 2009)

Loads of people.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Blaze of Glory said:
> 
> 
> > Fuck Fuck fuck Fuck
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

solicits time






> *BATMAN: BATTLE FOR THE COWL #2
> Written by Tony Daniel
> Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> Covers by Tony Daniel *
> ...








> *BATMAN: BATTLE FOR THE COWL ? MAN-BAT #1
> Written by Joe Harris
> Art by Jim Calafiore
> Cover by Ladr?nn *
> ...









> *BATMAN: BATTLE FOR THE COWL ? ARKHAM ASYLUM #1
> Written by David Hine
> Art by Jeremy Haun
> Cover by Ladr?nn *
> ...








> *BATMAN: BATTLE FOR THE COWL ? THE UNDERGROUND #1
> Written by Chris Yost
> Art by Pablo Raimondi
> Cover by Ladr?nn *
> ...



nice of Chris Yost to make time in his schedule for Batman, I mean he's doing Ender's Game, Kingbreaker and Messiah War.





> *AZRAEL: DEATH'S DARK KNIGHT #2
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Frazer Irving
> Cover by Guillem March *
> ...








> *ORACLE #2
> Written by Kevin VanHook
> Art by Don Kramer & Jay Leisten
> Cover by Guillem March *
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

The Underground cover looks badass


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 16, 2009)

Wasn't Bruce alive in New Krypton?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 16, 2009)

he appeared in one panel


ok so far we see:

Dick, Damian, Helena, Wildcat, Selina, Batwoman, Stephanie, Tim, Cassandra, Knight, Squire, Gordon and Lynx.


----------



## the_ilest (Jan 16, 2009)

I want Azreal i love his take no prisoners attitude.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 16, 2009)

I just noticed that Tim isn't burned anymore. Must be the healing results from the bat-radia.


----------



## Rod (Jan 17, 2009)

Just a thing ppl,

do you guys know any plans for Joe Bennett batrelated in the HQs?


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## Taleran (Jan 17, 2009)

really good interview




also Morrison has to be given credit for something else, by tying this Batman story into the major Cosmic story also going on at same time it makes it ridiculously difficult for future writers to pick it apart retcon it without going back into the cosmic stuff (things which Batman writers tend to avoid)


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## Comic Book Guy (Jan 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> solicits time



Oh, goody.

Now, will she do anything useful, and in-character?


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## mow (Jan 17, 2009)

bat girl? in character? since when?


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## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> The Underground cover looks badass



I'm liking this Ladron guy.



Taleran said:


> really good interview
> 
> 
> 
> ...



indeed, I had my doubts at first but Morrison has really won me over.

he's not my favorite Batman writer, but he's up there with O'Neil, Rogers, Rucka, Dini and Miller.



Comic Book Guy said:


> Oh, goody.
> 
> Now, will she do anything useful, and in-character?


indeed


----------



## Yoshi (Jan 17, 2009)

So when do people think Bruce will come back? I mean seriously, comic book death?


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## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

Bruce's death has a very simple back door, if Norman got out, then surely Morrison's Bruce can as well.  Could be tomorrow, could in 500 years, but he'll do it.

So logically I feel it's a matter of years.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2009)

He might not be able to do it with the Batman intact however

Bruce will get out not sure about Batman



Shilo had help, understood what the Sanction was and accepted it.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> solicits time



Oh snap!  

Beryl. 

She simply has to team-up with Robin again.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

I stand by my theory that Bruce will break out, it'll just take a much, much, much longer time than Shilo.  I mean if there is one thing Morrison has taught us, is that Bruce is prepared for absolutely any situation and has indominable willpower.


Either way, we aren't getting Bruce back for several years.  unless they cop out and end up making Bruce Owl-Man in the Outsiders.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 17, 2009)

Plus, Thogal, the Black Hand, and the Lump are like the ultimate study guides for dealing with the Life-Trap.


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## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

oh hey, I got the new Wizard and Kubert put up some pencils for the Gaiman story.

can't really make out much since he only gave loose pages, but Catwoman shows up _a lot_.  and she rides a Catmobile in one page.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 17, 2009)

I hope Andy Kubert doesn't phone it in this time.


----------



## Yoshi (Jan 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Either way, we aren't getting Bruce back for several years.  unless they cop out and end up making Bruce Owl-Man in the Outsiders.


I'd say that's unlikely, but with stupid writers comic book death anything is possible.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

that's why I doubt it's him, since Tomasi is a good writer 

but like you said: anything is possible


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## Rod (Jan 17, 2009)

Someone should of ask Morrison if he's serious fan of that Jet-li movie which I don't remember the name now, but this same shit happens, so guess end tends to be lame.

Though, curious about Selina's reaction, she should be down the road dood, Bruce has just declared for her some months ago (I guess that is it trying to find logic in this cronology if it has any), gotta imagine, he said no matter what happens will always love her forever and now he's not there, guess she never thought Bruce would die, like forget that in the end he's just a common random joe in the street, looking always so strong that seemed one of the ultrapowered heroes despite real state.

Anyways Final Crisis is great!...






...There in deep skin only.

but at least it has it's comedic value, I mean it's humorous to see retarded random things happening and characters acting OOC. 

Though things are royally messed up, guess that's just some setup so Dc can end this universe in some big party and reset everything. It would be clever if this had be done as a separated thing, guess at least ppl would consider it not canon and maybe it would receive 2/3 less the tons of critics it has now.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

the thing about Final Crisis, is that it's not new reader friendly.  I mean beforehand I had to actually do research, and that's why I love it so much.  But if you don't then expect to be dissapointed.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I stand by my theory that Bruce will break out, it'll just take a much, much, much longer time than Shilo.  I mean if there is one thing Morrison has taught us, is that Bruce is prepared for absolutely any situation and has indominable willpower.



But he can still be broken, as Emperor Joker demonstrated.


----------



## Yoshi (Jan 17, 2009)

I am not familiar with this Emperor Joker. Is it a good read?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 17, 2009)

If you like cosmic empires and the Joker, you'll love it.


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## Rod (Jan 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> the thing about Final Crisis, is that it's not new reader friendly.  I mean beforehand I had to actually do research, and that's why I love it so much.  But if you don't then expect to be dissapointed.



I agree wih you in this part, your right regarding the new readers, in my opinion Kilowog. Morrison is like creating a lost(series) thing here with many things opened who he pretends to close at same time, however this is risky that in my hunmble view of couse.

(But did you guys look at the fc6 invaders' speceships and thought "holy shit Tie interceptors Lol")

--------------------------------------------------------------------------




Personally just to explain why don't like it so it's not like dropped naysaying the thing with no apparent reason, that's just a simple opinion of mine to explain so it's not like you guys need to bother commenting on something etc.. just a personal view on the knowledge in the old story, regarding it I do believe that just makes thing more like a homage seeing who should be dead or senile by now, or understandable at some points, though, not that it doesnt' make exactly like it, I've been looking some comic dedicated forums and there are people who have like 30/40 years on this and clearly criticize what is up here, not that i'm taking any part just comenting on some facts, now just about myself, I don't know when exactly I started reading but I was really a child at the time, I do remember Schumacher had an unique title, from mainly Batman have reverted into buy lots of it's oldie stories and all, my personal feelings in general can be explained by these two comments from people don't even know who are but share same thing at cbr forums:



> I'm pretty disappointed with Batman's death. Not necessarily that they killed him, mind-you. I've been a loyal Batman fanatic since I was three. He's my favorite cultural icon ever, and yet I'm willing to accept killing him. If they never did bring him back again, he could still appear in All-Star type titles and non-continuity mini-series while Dick and Tim grew in profound and fascinating ways to fill his void. That all could work quite well, even though we know they'll probably cheat us out of so meaningful a death and just bring Bruce back.
> 
> But FC on top of R.I.P. just feels arbitrary to me. Black Glove pulls the all time greatest mind f*ck on Bruce, nearly obliterating him on every level, and Bruce comes back at the last moment, kicking butt and taking names. Then, within seconds of triumphing, he's apparently abducted by completely unrelated minions of Darkseid, subjected to more (and similar) mind f*ck treatment at Command D (for reasons that still don't make any sense to me), then breaks out (we don't even see him breaking out!) in time to be killed by a villain who holds no significance to the Batman mythos whatsoever. It's like Dan and Grant just wanted to put Bruce through a big obstacle course of unrelated events and then kill him for publicity and sales. There's no art here. Grant tries to justify the significance of the bullet and the death in his recent interview with Wizard, but I'm not buying it. This was entirely arbitrary and unimportant to the larger story of Batman.
> 
> So, I'm not happy. This entire event, going all the way back to Grant starting this run two and a half years ago, has proven to be a waste of my time. There were some very strong moments, but the larger concept/event has been, at best, utterly forgettable and, at worst, an ugly blight upon the character's 70 year legacy.






> I borrowed this from a friend, just read it and I still don't know what to say. Anticlimatic dosen't quite cover it. And my problem is not that He is Dead, or that he went up against Darkseid but that Now he is going to be Supernaturally resurrected or given some dumb explaination like a an alien ressurection machine.... that wont work for Kryptonians, Martians, Barry, Kon or Sue and Ralph Dibny.
> 
> The only thing this was missing was having Batman and Darkseid in the beach with two bold men, one of them with a beard, jumping a shark in the background.
> 
> I will be Dropping must Batman titles after Whatever happened to the Cape Cruisader and I'm really happy about it. Hell I might just drop all DCU if the New Gods Post-FC rumors are true.



So that's I think is the problem for me at least with crisis, it's like Batman with a ultra technologic pistol with radiation bullet goes 101% OOC shoot the fck pwn Darkseid, so gets into jeti-li movie. First thing that comes to mind:



However in the end that's just regarding opinions of me and some, it'll always depend on each individual, personally, don't criticise noone for liking, just care for some good fun talking that's is possible to contribute for something.

I do believe if Morrison had created it more straight to the point, would be alot more enjoyable


----------



## Bender (Jan 17, 2009)

Damian should be Batman 2 even if he is a little bastard


----------



## WarriorS (Jan 17, 2009)

I find the complaint of Batman shooting Darkseid as "Out of Character" to be unfounded. There is only one weapon which can kill a New God, the world is going to hell... but Batman is going to let it happen because of his moral code? If there were some other way, I'd agree... but there isn't. He even said it was a once-in-a-lifetime exception, and I can't think of a better one.

As for _RIP_'s relationship to _FC_, _RIP _was meant to be the last _Batman_ story. It's Batman's last, personal triumph over the evils of humanity, and it's also meant to be a close for Batman in Batman's own comic. Without that ending, there's no sense of resolution within his own comic series. That's why _RIP _exists; to give an ending for those who don't want to invest in _Final Crisis_. In _Final Crisis_, it's not Bruce's story as much as it's humanity's story. Since he's the greatest representation of humanity's strength in the DC Universe, it's only appropriate that he'd be the one to bring Darkseid down a notch.

And the guy rambling about the "resurrection" obviously has no clue what the hell he's talking about.

But if we want to discuss FC more, we have a thread for it.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

Also people who bring up the Alex Luthor scene from Infinite Crisis and use it in their arguments need a serious ass kicking.


----------



## WarriorS (Jan 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Also people who bring up the Alex Luthor scene from Infinite Crisis and use it in their arguments need a serious ass kicking.



Yeah, it's a completely different situation. When he's aiming the gun at Alex, Alex is completely at his mercy and no longer a threat. He wants to kill him mostly because he thinks he's killed Dick. He wants to kill him for his own selfish reasons. In this, Darkseid DEFINITELY isn't helpless, and it's the only thing Batman _can_ do.

As an aside, they added a few panels in the _Infinite Crisis_ trade where Dr. Midnight basically tells Tim Dick is going to be okay which completely drains the tension from the scene. They even show Tim yelling and almost crying after he tells him this, and it just makes it awkward.


----------



## Rod (Jan 17, 2009)

WarriorS said:


> I find the complaint of Batman shooting Darkseid as "Out of Character" to be unfounded. There is only one weapon which can kill a New God, the world is going to hell... but Batman is going to let it happen because of his moral code? If there were some other way, I'd agree... but there isn't. He even said it was a once-in-a-lifetime exception, and I can't think of a better one.
> 
> As for _RIP_'s relationship to _FC_, _RIP _was meant to be the last _Batman_ story. It's Batman's last, personal triumph over the evils of humanity, and it's also meant to be a close for Batman in Batman's own comic. Without that ending, there's no sense of resolution within his own comic series. That's why _RIP _exists; to give an ending for those who don't want to invest in _Final Crisis_. In _Final Crisis_, it's not Bruce's story as much as it's humanity's story. Since he's the greatest representation of humanity's strength in the DC Universe, it's only appropriate that he'd be the one to bring Darkseid down a notch.
> 
> ...



Excuse me, is this directed into my previous post?


----------



## WarriorS (Jan 17, 2009)

Rod said:


> Excuse me, is this directed into my previous post?



Yeah. I didn't quote it because it was just too long, and most of it was directed at the people you quoted. I was simply providing a counterpoint to your argument, since I disagree with it.

And what I meant by the _FC _thing was that it seems like you have more complaints than just Batman's involvement. We can certainly talk about Batman's involvement in FC here... but it seems like you think more people than just him are out of character. That's all.


----------



## Rod (Jan 17, 2009)

WarriorS said:


> Yeah. I didn't quote it because it was just too long, and most of it was directed at the people you quoted. I was simply providing a counterpoint to your argument, since I disagree with it.
> 
> And what I meant by the _FC _thing was that it seems like you have more complaints than just Batman's involvement. We can certainly talk about Batman's involvement in FC here... but it seems like you think more people than just him are out of character. That's all.



Fair enough, guess we will have to agree to disagree in this case relating all the first part otherwise we will start some boring to death discussion here, talking by experience, as same is happening in all the bat-forums atm mainly after fc6


Also yes, there are more, just regarding issues in the plot, but so far regarding characters personally can say I've troubles (other than Bruce) with the way Flash, Green lantern patrol, and LJA's group in general, can say feel confortable with Clark, though again this is my opinion based in my own interpretations on all these characters.

That's all matter of taste based, so non subject to change either way, although discussion in more concrete matters, just regarding the facts themselves are fine, like in Bruce's case for example, despite any difference in portraying, will he die in vain, etc..


----------



## WarriorS (Jan 17, 2009)

Rod said:


> Fair enough, guess we will have to agree to disagree in this case relating all the first part otherwise we will start some boring to death discussion here, talking by experience, as same is happening in all the bat-forums atm mainly after fc6



Fair enough.



> Also yes, there are more, just regarding issues in the plot, but so far regarding characters personally can say I've troubles (other than Bruce) with the way Flash, Green lantern patrol, and LJA's group in general, can say feel confortable with Clark, though again this is my opinion based in my own interpretations on all these characters.



I like his Barry Allen and most of his JLA (His Green Arrow/Black Canary is exactly right, in my opinion). I do, however, understand a little bit of the Green Lantern thing: Issue 5's start felt really awkward, both with art and dialogue (In my opinion, it was easily the weakest issue): It didn't feel quite as epic as I thought it was. I think he does well with John Stewart, but sometimes I feel like Hal has too much exposition in his dialogue.

Still, I love "Hal Jordan, you have 24 hours to save the Earth" and Green Man's analysis of the situation ("Doomsday Singularity" = Awesome), however.



> That's all matter of taste based, so non subject to change either way, although discussion in more concrete matters, just regarding the facts themselves are fine, like in Bruce's case for example, despite any difference in portraying, will he die in vain, etc..



Okay. Though I think it's basically confirmed that he's not dead, but he's trapped within the .

Also, we need to convince the forum higher-ups to replace the lame "Spoiler" button with the Spoiler Puppy or Puppies.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

he just noticed that both the Kubert brothers have Batman related issues coming out on the exact same day


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 17, 2009)

Cacophony is fail, so fuck that one.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

WarriorS said:


> Also, we need to convince the forum higher-ups to replace the lame "Spoiler" button with the Spoiler Puppy or Puppies.



yes


----------



## Castiel (Jan 17, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Cacophony is fail, so fuck that one.



actually wasn't talking about that.  One is doing the Outsiders one-shot and the other is doing the Gaiman story.

also yeah I'll agree now on Cacophony.  After I reread the first issue I was onfused why I liked it the first time.  maybe it was because I loved Kevin Smith Green Arrow, but seriously Kevin Smith Green Arrow >>>>>>>>>>(infinite to the infinite power)>>>>>Cacophony

also he's actually using Maxie Zeus in a story


----------



## The Rook (Jan 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Either way, we aren't getting Bruce back for several years.  unless they cop out and end up making Bruce Owl-Man in the Outsiders.



I'm voting for Alfred as Owl-Man.  Imagine what the reveal would look like.


----------



## Rod (Jan 17, 2009)

WarriorS said:


> I like his Barry Allen and most of his JLA (His Green Arrow/Black Canary is exactly right, in my opinion). I do, however, understand a little bit of the Green Lantern thing: Issue 5's start felt really awkward, both with art and dialogue (In my opinion, it was easily the weakest issue): It didn't feel quite as epic as I thought it was. I think he does well with John Stewart, but sometimes I feel like Hal has too much exposition in his dialogue.
> 
> Still, I love "Hal Jordan, you have 24 hours to save the Earth" and Green Man's analysis of the situation ("Doomsday Singularity" = Awesome), however.



My problem with Flash is just the weight of each character in the balance, it's okay that Wally is badass, but Barry and Jay should imo receive more intelectual importance here, sharing the development matter in same level.

Though regarding the Green lantern It's just like that, kinda sounds that if Hal was alone things would look more "heroic", though as it is now looks like an obligation to draw the others anyways kinda like: _"omg a problem...hei Hal what we gonna do mate?" _ you know kinda weird in my opinion.



WarriorS said:


> Okay. Though I think it's basically confirmed that he's not dead, but he's trapped within the .
> 
> Also, we need to convince the forum higher-ups to replace the lame "Spoiler" button with the Spoiler Puppy or Puppies.



yeah, force of the expression though.

spoiler puppy guess saw someone suggesting that too.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 17, 2009)

the most obvious answer to why the gun I can think of with every one of Batman's usual foes theres always a small chance that they can be redeemed and helped but with Darkseid hes the *GOD OF EVIL* it'd be impossible to redeem him


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## Rod (Jan 17, 2009)

Though, we should not underestimate Bruce, perhaps the bullet in this gun is prepared not to kill Darkseid, but to definitely disenable him, so the villain would be in Clark's hands, would be pretty badass if Bruce planned something in beforehand considering all variants that could happen, so Grant would please most part of the people then (considering Bruce would still keep his swear etc...).


----------



## Suzumebachi (Jan 17, 2009)

I am personally sick of legacy heroes. 

And in my mind, the only other Batman is Terry McGinnis.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 17, 2009)

Suzumebachi said:


> I am personally sick of legacy heroes.
> 
> And in my mind, the only other Batman is Terry McGinnis.



That's another vote for Terry McGinnis.  

Re: the gun scene, 

Well, Morrison did say that he wants to reincorporate Batman's 70+ years of history in his story, and Batman did wield a gun on a semi-regular basis at one point, so I really don't see the problem.


----------



## Kameil (Jan 17, 2009)

The Gun scene wasn't really appauling it felt natural because after all it was Darkseid anyway he was against.


----------



## Bender (Jan 18, 2009)

Can someone hook me up with a scan of Batman shooting Darkside with the Anti-life equation or whatever the hell it was?  And Batman being struck by Darkseid's omega beam.... 

I wanna see the bats in his last moments


----------



## Castiel (Jan 18, 2009)




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## Petes12 (Jan 18, 2009)

There's only so far you can reasonably take a 'do not kill' rule before it's just ridiculous. I didn't have any problem with this- it was a really desperate situation in what's basically a war between Darkseid and earth. If the other choice is letting everyone in the world die, it's not much of a choice at all.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Can someone hook me up with a scan of Batman shooting Darkside with the Anti-life equation or whatever the hell it was?  And Batman being struck by Darkseid's omega beam....
> 
> I wanna see the bats in his last moments


I can't believe you haven't seen this yet...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 18, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Art from Battle for the Cowl_


----------



## qks (Jan 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Can someone hook me up with a scan of Batman shooting Darkside with the Anti-life equation or whatever the hell it was?  And Batman being struck by Darkseid's omega beam....
> 
> I wanna see the bats in his last moments




*Spoiler*: __


----------



## happykid112399 (Jan 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Morrison interview on CBR about RIP




lol they talk about them like a bloody football squad trying to decide the next captain


----------



## Bender (Jan 18, 2009)

This pisses me off the extreme...Why couldn't Batman dodge Darkseid's Omega Sanction like he did in JLU? 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOmMTRZyoIY&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 18, 2009)

because if Batman died in the JLU cartoon little kids (and some adults) would cry.


----------



## Bender (Jan 18, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> because if Batman died in the JLU cartoon little kids (and some adults) would cry.



But seriously, he had all the time in the world to start doing some kickass manuvering after shooting Darkseid.


----------



## Arishem (Jan 18, 2009)

Darkseid's (the original Kirby version anyway) Omega Beams never miss; they can travel through solid matter, different dimensions, and even time to hit whatever displeases the Great One. It just occured to me that they also fit perfectly with the personality of a character who always plans and remains away from the fighting. Darkseid is above aiming.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> But seriously, he had all the time in the world to start doing some kickass manuvering after shooting Darkseid.


the serious answer...


Arishem said:


> Darkseid's (the original Kirby version anyway) Omega Beams never miss; they can travel through solid matter, different dimensions, and even time to hit whatever displeases the Great One. It just occured to me that they also fit perfectly with the personality of a character who always plans and remains away from the fighting. Darkseid is above aiming.


... this.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 18, 2009)

So what do you think Harley's role will be?

fyi after splitting with Joker in Morrison's story, she was let out of Arkham for good behavior, was a member of the Secret Six then sided with the Amazons and is now living legit in Gotham.

Wonder what got her to put the suit again?


----------



## Kameil (Jan 18, 2009)

Guess her life is not exciting anymore.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> So what do you think Harley's role will be?
> 
> fyi after splitting with Joker in Morrison's story, she was let out of Arkham for good behavior, was a member of the Secret Six then sided with the Amazons and is now living legit in Gotham.
> 
> Wonder what got her to put the suit again?



She may not actually be in the suit. It may just be "wearing it" for that promo piece for sake of familiarity. Kinda like how I doubt Tim, Dick or Jason (well Jason actually might) will be wearing bat suits for BftC.


----------



## Bender (Jan 19, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> So what do you think Harley's role will be?



Joker's whore once more


----------



## Kameil (Jan 19, 2009)

She might be the independant type this time. I'd like to see her play her own games.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 19, 2009)

I just thought of something TOTALLY possible. What if Battle for the Cowl...
*Spoiler*: __ 



...sucks?!


----------



## Kameil (Jan 19, 2009)

Then hope is eradicated.


----------



## Stalin (Jan 19, 2009)

Was this event any good?


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## Rod (Jan 19, 2009)

depends on what you're talking; FC, rip, or bfc?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Though personally guys, I don't think Bruce will be out for that much time, I guess some stories without him out of curiosity by people may be interesting and subsequently selling good in the beginning but anyways IMO after some few time the HQs will suffer big down in sales, considering the economic situation we're passing by possibly the guys cannot afford lose money, in this case relaunching one or other classics or old stories to supply these.

It's like well, battle for the cowl may be a good story and all (personally can say i'm expecting but it seems it's not something that is really bothering, in my opinion just awaiting that 4 superman thing)  and perhaps get a new Batman or not, but well, would people keep buying Dick grayson's or Tim Drake's or whoever's stories for like 3 years? Personally can't really be hooked up to imagine that idea, not that the quality of the stories will suck, they may be great, but it's like something "not of interest" that cannot explain exactly, like an uncofortable feeling or so with that, it's unfortunate because these may be really fine, receive people working hard in this though it's a thing that simply happens. However, regarding that feeling, I'm sure not alone on this since have been talking with some friends who express the same but have no idea of the scale, considering that, unless get some alternate ideas surely should be a problem the people who share the very same.

To finish, in my view, Bruce will return with Morrison in summer/six months, like the final pages of Le Bossu in rip.


----------



## Stalin (Jan 19, 2009)

Rod said:


> depends on what you're talking; FC, rip, or bfc?
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Though personally guys, I don't think Bruce will be out for that much time, I guess some stories without him out of curiosity by people may be interesting and subsequently selling good in the beginning but anyways IMO after some few time the HQs will suffer big down in sales, considering the economic situation we're passing by possibly the guys cannot afford lose money, in this case relaunching one or other classics or old stories to supply these.
> ...



I'm talking about R.I.P., would I be talking about FC on a thread that cleary says Batman R.I.P discussion?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 19, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I just thought of something TOTALLY possible. What if Battle for the Cowl...
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



you bastard, you've jinxed it 

anyways from what I've heard "The Tenth" was a solid series and when DC recruited him they wanted him as a *writer* but he decline saying he wanted a few years to practice his artwork.  Also The Tenth was apparently Image's highest selling book for several years.


Though I haven't read The Tenth myself, so who knows?  At least you'll have pretty pictures to watch


----------



## Rod (Jan 19, 2009)

The Cheat said:


> I'm talking about R.I.P., would I be talking about FC on a thread that cleary says Batman R.I.P discussion?



Despite the title, you should always read before post what is the situation, that being said considering the last talks have involved not only that but another stories too (FC, btc), surely you should of then specify dude.

Mainly lastly we were talking about Bruce's FC "death" and who the heck may be the new Batman.

And depends, for me RIP had a good linear story, but the very end (only the last pages of the 681) could have been made better yeah, it's not exactly explained how Bruce got away from the last panels of the 681 just that he got, don't know how would classify this but it's overall an interesting story.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 19, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> you bastard, you've jinxed it
> 
> anyways from what I've heard "The Tenth" was a solid series and when DC recruited him they wanted him as a *writer* but he decline saying he wanted a few years to practice his artwork.  Also The Tenth was apparently Image's highest selling book for several years.
> 
> ...


I mave have read this series... 

*Spoiler*: _The covers look extremely "Image"_


----------



## Yoshi (Jan 19, 2009)

So sex and demons. I guess if it works.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 19, 2009)

funny how it didn't occur to me till now, but Alfred's "Unfinished business" from the new Nightwing could be referring to the Outsiders since Bruce left him the team and Tomasi is going to Outsiders.


also I wonder if DC is going to lump the O'Neil story with the Ra's Al Ghul story in the TPB?  they kinda feel like they're part of the same [very loose] story arc.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 19, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> funny how it didn't occur to me till now, but Alfred's "Unfinished business" from the new Nightwing could be referring to the Outsiders since Bruce left him the team and Tomasi is going to Outsiders.



Yeah, I said something similar a while ago somewhere on the internet. I'm too lazy to look for proof.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 19, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> *Spoiler*: _Art from Battle for the Cowl_



Beryl  Tim


----------



## Rod (Jan 20, 2009)

What if Kal and Brainiac use that machine in Bruce


----------



## Castiel (Jan 20, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Robin #182 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 20, 2009)

small preview pics are small.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 20, 2009)

Rod said:


> What if Kal and Brainiac use that machine in Bruce



World of dark hurt.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 20, 2009)

damn only 1 more NW and 2 more Robins.

I'm gonna miss the current Tomasi/Nicieza runs


----------



## Castiel (Jan 20, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> small preview pics are small.



fixed            .


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 20, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> fixed            .


w00t!


----------



## Rod (Jan 21, 2009)

did you guys notice the irony here;

at the time Bruce finally overcame his confidence issues and declared to Selina, it was the last he saw her, though it's interesting what he said something along the lines:

_"... I only know a thing... Whatever happens to me in the future, wherever I am... I'll always love you."_

maybe Dini knew Morrison's plans? Because this somewhat reminds me Bruce's Omega sanctioned state now.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 22, 2009)

very interesting, this arc really does make and push the case for why Tim should be the next Batman in such a way that it seems likely now.


also just complete lol at how random the death of Anarky's siblings were


----------



## Rod (Jan 22, 2009)

Though, guys just a thing, is what we're seeing now in Robin/Nightwing/Catwoman/Hush/Outsiders etc.. "where's waldo Bruce" all post final crisis, correct?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 22, 2009)

Well, Superman's holding what's left of him.

I doubt anyone would not see that, or not hear of it.


----------



## Rod (Jan 22, 2009)

Oh cuz if not mistaken after the first crisis it's like they all got mind wiped (?) of what happened, so it's more around after all the stuff is over, they won't remember anything, the invasion ended at the very moment it began, time restarted from the initial moment stuff like that.

(so in the end, most likely no billions of humans farked, tons of cities destroyed etc..)

Kinda like the time stoped, and continues again when the invasion ends, so for them, possibly won't know/remember Bruce got Omega sanctioned etc... Only that he disappeared after went into investigation of a struggle between gods (Alfred possibly told them), or simply after the events of RIP.

Eventually, it's like it never happened, therefore that's why suspect all this "zomg Bruce where the fuck are ya bat friendey " happens post FC. Anyways, Bruce's case is special, he tends to be the unique affected as got trapped into the Omega beamz0tz0rs of Do0m


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 23, 2009)

Why is no one but me excited about Jason Todd?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 23, 2009)

Because I find him better dead than now.

He's just a poor man's Winter Soldier.


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Jan 23, 2009)

Tim gives Jason a chance to get out of jail but wants Stephanie to stop being a vigilante.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2009)

how hilarious would it be if Jason forgot the password and had to break out guns a blazing?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 23, 2009)

Where's he gonna get the guns to blaze?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2009)

the guards


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 23, 2009)

You've obviously never been on the inside of a prison, visiting or otherwise, so I'll leave that one alone.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2009)

It's my bad for watching too much "Prison Break" recently


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 23, 2009)

The General was such a moron, I'm glad that his family died. He's gonna feel like shit when they come back as Black Lanterns.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2009)

my only problem was that it was just so fucking random.

"i have my brother so I'm gonna wait inthe car"

*boom*

and the parents lived


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2009)

> 18*. Again, one directly from a reader – now that Manhunter and [...] [has] ended, where should fans look to see Kate Spencer  again [...]?*
> 
> DD: [...] Kate Spencer will be showing her face in Gotham City very soon.



Battle For the Cowl?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 23, 2009)

For Bruce's will.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2009)

the people at Batman-on-film.com need to shut the fuck up


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 23, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> *Spoiler*: _Beryl + Tim_


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #685 preview_ 
















Best. Torture. Method. Ever.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 24, 2009)

Eh. I can think of worst things.


----------



## Rod (Jan 24, 2009)

Lol.

I thought she would also deformate his face or something like that too,

btw man this seems lotta stuff for 2 articles, guess this gonna get extended.

it's funny they're playing with the title putting "Catwoman" over the bats.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 24, 2009)

> it's funny they're playing with the title putting "Catwoman" over the bats.


they've been doing that with all the FOE covers


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 24, 2009)

What's the point of FOE, again?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 24, 2009)

on paper "to revitilize our villains" or some such BS.

Though I will give them credit for the Prometheus and Deathstroke one-shots, those left me very eager to see what is coming next for the character.  also some of the FOE issues like Dini's Hush/Catwoman story and the Ra's Al Ghul story in Nightwing also made great use of the villains.

though stuff like JLA really dropped the ball 



still it had more purpose than Marvel's "Villain Variants" that also came out this month, I mean those had characters that were long written out of the series


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 24, 2009)

FOE Laira totally revitalized that character. Not only did she get stomped in the head by a chicken man, she also got killed... Pure evil.


----------



## Rod (Jan 24, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> they've been doing that with all the FOE covers




Oh yeah, thanks to point, actually haven't noticed this before, think because didn't check the other comics related yet this month, so for me that's the first FOE cover (other than the previous one) I see.

Anyways I think it's aggravated with the Batman out, and kind remembers "old" Catwoman's issue.

btw, checking the May or so related issue of the BftC, she is listed together with the villains in that whatever they're trying to do, so maybe she is taking the path again until Bruce backs to solve her problems 

Though, think Jason will "win" and shoot noobs in the faces (same JP story). In my opinion Dick won't get it he has his own theme and all, also Tim wants to be himself too just like Grayson. So for me the unique dude who couldn't careless for self dignity is Todd. In the end in this case at least, there would be fight between Bruce and him again  (knightfall turning it?)


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 24, 2009)

Rod said:


> Oh yeah, thanks to point, actually haven't noticed this before, think because didn't check the other comics related yet this month, so for me that's the first FOE cover (other than the previous one) I see.
> 
> Anyways I think it's aggravated with the Batman out, and kind remembers "old" Catwoman's issue.
> 
> ...


I like where this is going.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 24, 2009)

Speaking of Jason Todd......



> You see, there are three ‘Jason Todds’ in Batman, and have been for a few years now.
> 
> One is the character that is currently running around with no narrative purpose, whose very existence in one panel of a comic requires, out of necessity, the whole comic to be perverted into a rationalisation of the most pointless returns from the dead in comic history, and who has no fixed characterisation. This character is an utterly pointless waste of ink, and an example of the artistic bankruptcy of a superhero comics medium that is obsessed with ‘things being like they were when I was 12, but more badass’.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 24, 2009)

I speak and read English very well and I'm assuming the point of that post was to define three different Jason Todds... It didn't.


----------



## Rod (Jan 24, 2009)

I just hope Bruce doesn't return as... the goddam white lantern. 

To fight the black lantern Superman in some epic battle.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 24, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I speak and read English very well and I'm assuming the point of that post was to define three different Jason Todds... It didn't.



My bad.  It's an excerpt from  blog.  I only included that bit because it highlights how utterly pointless Jason's been since his resurrection.


----------



## Rod (Jan 24, 2009)

Jesus Christ. Now I realise can't wait for 685.

These last Dini's ideas have been made of win and awesome. 
(I 100% of approve HoH for example, that was made of glory and honour) 

Man, 28 will be a day of insane justice, there'll be discussion everywhere 

That, Brave and the bold, FC7, FCR, fun for whole family...


----------



## Castiel (Jan 24, 2009)

That was actually a very good blog post and while I wholeheartedly agree,

I personally liked the Return of Jason arc that Winick did quite a bit and aside from *ToS* it's the only particularly good thing he's ever done. 

I personally felt that Winick had a concrete plan with Jason Todd but the editors fucked him over (they gave Morrison and Dini the batbooks [yay] and they decided to give Jason over to Bruce Jones because they were originally going to kill Nightwing).


----------



## Rod (Jan 24, 2009)

Hope DC allows Dini to retcon Helena's story.

Well, he turned Hush into business so bet he can do that too. 

Also, don't understand why the heck Catwoman is fighting for the cowl, maybe she will steal it from the weirdos, something to remember Bruce or stuff like that.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 24, 2009)

they recently gave Helena her own orign mini


----------



## Rod (Jan 24, 2009)

ahh not the Hauntress hehe, I meant the Selina baby, who the guys created, seemed to got sorry and simply made some shit to make it disappear from the storyline. 


Maybe black glove farked her mind and it's Bruce's in reality.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 24, 2009)

oooooooh


----------



## Rod (Jan 24, 2009)

Man, hope seriously DC thinks about that, with Dini this could only be win, imagine if Bruce discovers something like that, god he would go apeshit, contact everybody he knows in the country to try find the baby and all, wayne corps would of contract tons of detectives to investigate 24/7 in the world, there would be panels of awesome.

If it was Grant, so actually the family he found were contracted people by Bruce himself, he suspected about the baby so he did that, and that Selina would of be lying or mindfucked by the black glove who were farking with everybody around him, so he had to keep her (baby) in secret in a safe place in another of his mansions until everything cleared up, but done the DNA test to prove his suspicious correct. In the end, all fitting in a grand scheme of the things planned by Bruce. And you know why? Because that's the thing about Batman. Batman always think about everything.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 24, 2009)

I rather prefer to keep Dini on the Detective Comics title.

The last big thing he wrote was Countdown.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 28, 2009)

> *IGN Comics: Not to get on a tangent here, but one quick question: with Detective Comics on hiatus, can fans expect to eventually see more from the team of Paul Dini and Dustin Nyugen? *
> 
> Marts: For sure. We were actually just talking yesterday and today about their next project, which is also in the Batman realm.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jan 28, 2009)

Rod said:


> Hope DC allows Dini to retcon Helena's story.
> 
> Well, he turned Hush into business so bet he can do that too.
> 
> Also, don't understand why the heck Catwoman is fighting for the cowl, maybe she will steal it from the weirdos, something to remember Bruce or stuff like that.



Wait, are they fighting over who will get to be Batman, or over Batman's literal cowl? 'Cause the latter is just... weird.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 28, 2009)

> Marts:  *perhaps the reemergence of a villain that we thought dead in the past. *



so what relatively well Bat villains are dead?  all i can think of are Black Mask and both Ventriloquists.




on batwoman



> *IGN Comics: How about Batwoman? I know fans have been waiting to see her integrated more closely into the Bat-family, and the DCU in general, for some time now. Is this the time where fans will finally see that happen? *
> 
> Marts: We hope so. That's about as much as I can say about it right now.
> 
> ...



I find this hard to believe since Rucka wrote Queen & Country and Gotham Central, but still good to see this has progressed.





on the 3rd Man



> *IGN Comics: How about the armored "Third Batman" from Grant's run and RIP? His presence in the teaser suggests that somehow the threads laid down by Grant in RIP will play into Battle for the Cowl. Are we going to see this character in Tony Daniel's mini-series? *
> 
> Marts: There are definitely similarities between that third Batman and the one that appears in this teaser image. But I wouldn't be so quick to assume they're one in the same. I will say this – the character crouched atop that box will be seen in the months to come for sure.



not a direct confirmation but felt like posting it






here you go CBG:



> *IGN Comics: [laughs] Fair enough. I asked Tony Daniel this question when I interviewed him, and I'm interested to hear your perspective on it. I think if you were to ask ten fans who they expect to walk away from Battle for the Cowl with the right to become the next Batman, nine of them would say Nightwing. How are you guys going about subverting or playing with those expectations? *
> 
> Marts: Well I think you can take a look at any one of the characters and come up with a justification for why he or she should be in the suit. A lot of people are going to gravitate towards Dick Grayson because he's been the second in command of Batman for so long, and has always been there. But you have to stop and think if this is something Dick would even want. Could he possibly feel like maybe no one could be Batman, and that the legacy of Batman is something to revere and respect and not try to replace?
> 
> ...


----------



## Rod (Jan 28, 2009)

Bergelmir said:


> Wait, are they fighting over who will get to be Batman, or over Batman's literal cowl? 'Cause the latter is just... weird.



We will have to wait mate, we don't know what exactly is this for, maybe one thing, maybe another. We will see soon...



Kilowog said:


> so what relatively well Bat villains are dead?  all i can think of are Black Mask and both Ventriloquists.



Reaper.

now that would be win.




> _[...]Jason Todd is also definitely someone to throw into the mix. He's been associated with Batman for a long time, and he's gone through a lot over the past few years. Sometimes he hasn't been the most stable person, so what would happen if he tried to become Batman?[..]
> 
> [...]It could also be Selina Kyle, who's been closer to Bruce Wayne than most of these other characters have been.[...]_



Now that I see it, IMO it's between these two


----------



## Rod (Jan 28, 2009)

Just read "Batman/Catwoman" 685.

or better witnessed it, jesus, it is so fucking epic win. Dini needs to continue really.

and heck just got confirmation, all that where's waldo stuff is post crisis.


----------



## Z (Jan 28, 2009)

Dick Grayson as Batman just doesn't click. Neither do the other choices. :amazed


----------



## Castiel (Jan 29, 2009)

I lold


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 29, 2009)

DC; Guys, it could be someone besides Nightwing.

Fans; . . .uh huh.

DC; It's TOTALLY plausible. See, we have a kid whose tired of Batman, some girls in a male dominiated media, some guy who is alive because we broke a piece of glass...er reality, and the son of Batman...you know because we totally plan to keep Damien around forever. See? It could totally NOT be Nightwing guys.

Fans; ....whatever...we believe you. Happy now?

DC; Success! It IS Nightwing. What a twist!

Fans; . . . you got us?


Also....EWwwwwww how old is Spoiler?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 29, 2009)

currently she has to be 16-17, and she was a mother.


anyways I personally really think it'll be Nightwing, but I don't see it as being 100% certain.  Tim has a solid shot as well, not as big as Dick but still a solid shot


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 30, 2009)

> What about Cassandra Cain? Will she step up and become something that no one will expect?



I'll have to witness this for myself, because DC's track record with her post-IC is so fucking shitty.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 30, 2009)

and if she wasn't mentioned you'd just be ranting about how she was excluded 

also the new Batman was great, not as good as the first part but still good.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 1, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]Ld0uIhst3TA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 1, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> and if she wasn't mentioned you'd just be ranting about how she was excluded



I admit to being ticked when she wasn't on the first cover. . . until I realized it was part of a 3part-big cover.

But damn it, she is part of the Bat-family.

On that topic, I wonder if we'll see Onyx. . .


----------



## deathgod (Feb 1, 2009)

So it's 100% confirmed that Bruce Wayne is dead or won't be coming back as Batman? 

I don't see Tim being the new Batman. He was so cold towards the end of the latest issue or Robin. You'd think that he'd show some guilt or remorse at the loss of those kids. I know Batman has to make hard decisions like that, but I don't think he'd be too cold or indifferent about it like Tim was. I personally hope they go back to making CC like how she was back in the day, and not like she is now where nobody respects her fighting ability and seems to smack her around all the time.

BTW where's the Alfred option in the polls


----------



## Rod (Feb 2, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #686: Whatever happened to the caped crusader? Part 1 of 2._


----------



## Castiel (Feb 2, 2009)

great preview, I have every faith in Gaiman's ability to deliver


also this scene looks awesome


----------



## Wesley (Feb 2, 2009)

Alley cats guarding a car.  That's pretty cool.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 3, 2009)

so do you guys think Joker is going to turn into Joseph Kerr again because Bruce is gone?


----------



## Rod (Feb 3, 2009)

That's an interesting question mate.

Are you only refering specificaly for Joseph Kerr?

Sorry if yes man, I will develop some more from that base question.

Joker is good to work with because of the range of crazy personas and different reactions that it's possible to go, him being unpredictable is fine cuz gives alot of possibilities and freedom for the writter, so it'll depend on the taste of the dude that is running the thing atm, may variate alot from a person to another, but in the end it's not like it's possible to say "lol this dude portrays 100% OOC" etc...  Because the character is just alot open to interpretations and such.

For me for example, if I was the writter, would of ask for 2 panels where someone says him Bat is gone, so his face is sad "you must be joking." not a smile anymore and face is getting slowly covered by shadows.

tears in eyes.

Only to in the end an all crazy evil laugh: "FUN TIME" or some shit like that.

Then he starts some new big event of the crazy doom or such in a very "the killing joke" way as usual.

 That's the view I've on how the character would behave,  contradictory at extreme and crazy nuts as always.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 3, 2009)

I don't know, guys.  That cityscape looks as uninspired as it usually does under Andy K's pen.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 3, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> so do you guys think Joker is going to turn into Joseph Kerr again because Bruce is gone?



Maybe. It'd be gradual, once he realize that Batman isn't coming back anytime soon.

Then again, whoever takes up the cowl, Joker will have fun trying to kill the "pretender".


----------



## Rod (Feb 3, 2009)

Man, imagine if all the weirdos are fighting for the cowl and in the end who wins is a mysteryous dude noone knows, and the guy acts everyday and ppl don't know who the heck is.

Then we witness it's Jean Paul Valley 

Just when noone mentioned or remembered about him or thought he was dead, the mofo does it again. 

Plot thickens


----------



## Castiel (Feb 3, 2009)

hey guys the 2nd part of this story was delayed, now it comes out *AFTER* Battle For The Cowl #1


----------



## Rod (Feb 3, 2009)

The image you posted above is already from the 2nd chapter, mate?


----------



## Rod (Feb 3, 2009)

> *Morrison:* _"For me, there's a Batman story that I started in issue #655 with Andy Kubert, and the whole story is that Batman is up against the ultimate diabolical mastermind – and by that, I mean it quite literally. And it's about how he cheats him. And also, we wanted to set up the big idea that maybe – maybe – the ultimate diabolical mastermind is Thomas Wayne. So the readers were kind of left with two choices: maybe it was Thomas Wayne pretending to be the devil, and maybe it was the devil pretending to be Thomas Wayne. And that leads into the next phase of Batman, which I'm starting in the summer."_



So yeah... Grant just indirectly accidentaly spoiled when Bruce returns.




> *IGN Comics*: So what is the Omega Sanction, and why does it affect people differently?
> 
> *Morrison:*_ It fires its victims through time. Originally, it sent people back to different time periods in Earth's past, as seen in 'Forever People', and then I came up with a version of it that actually reroutes the victim through a disorienting succession of different lives, each of which grows more hopeless and more horrible until your soul is dead. Kirby did the bouncing-through-time original and I made up the multiple-corrupted-lives adaptation for the "Mister Miracle" series.
> 
> It affects people differently because of the higher levels of cruelty shown by the incarnate Gods in Seven Soldiers and Final Crisis. _



Well finally a clarification nonetheless... Seems Bruce was hurt by Kirby's Omega beams instead of Morrison's. Or he is about to live lotta shitty lives. But personally it looks like more the first.



> *IGN Comics:* _The way that time plays into this series is fascinating, and it brings up that question I mentioned before about, "Is this where we came in?" What does it mean to have Bruce Wayne stranded in the age of the dawn of man? Will he or can he affect the future?_
> 
> *Morrison: *_The only thing I'll say about this is "wait and see". _



Oh shit. Bruce will be like the Jesus or Moses 

TBH I believe if he'll keep living again then I guess he'll have decisive participation in each big event of the earth like French revolution, World War I & II, Industrial revolution, etc..

Or he is "simply" the dude who inspired willpower for the people in the future to never give up, even when facing the darker of the fates and all this stuff.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 4, 2009)

> Grant just indirectly accidentaly spoiled when Bruce returns


who knows, maybe this new arc will all be about Dick, or Tim or Bat-Might


----------



## Rod (Feb 4, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> who knows, maybe this new arc will all be about Dick, or Tim or Bat-Might



I'm expecting some big things involving Wayne family (his parents and biological relatives I mean) during the run, but of course in the end to get everything back normal, with the view of good people from them just like Kane/Bill intended for the Waynes, so guess it's a sacrilege to change radically the root of the character's story.

Anyways...

Man i'm quite the relieved with these Morrison's words.

Was starting to wonder why the usual unique Individual top 10 seller of the DC, Batman, was receiving poor treatment in his death.

Only in one or other thing refering to the area inside Gotham, but anot  more wide event in DCU with the reactions of everybody or such.

I mean come on. Not even an special issue for a ceremonial funeral(without body, only objects , photos and memories etc.. and friends) like Hal's for example? It's to understand that prolly the dudes got mind wipped after FC and noone knows he's really "dead" then, but so at least clarify it exactly otherwise this behave from them sucks.

Obviously Bruce wouldn't care very much for anyone appearing in his funeral as there's nothing anymore someone could bring for him I guess... As long as the objective is complete then it's all fine for him it seems.

But again come on. 

When Diana was dying there at the hospital, in his fashion without wanting to demonstrate strong feelings for others publicaly, he waited everybody leave her room then to secretly come and spend a night alone at her side, guess he was more beaten and sentimental at the moment than the normal.

When Clark died he got deep fucked. Denied it to no end. Not because of some physical impossbility or theory of what happened, but it's kinda like you receive a call that someone close to you has died and you deny even if it looks unlogical...Until he got proven right in the end. He just felt deep skin that his friend was alive somewhat.

So for, if at least these two didn't receive some special treatment showing how they feel about Bruce it would really be strange and really a deception.

But looking right now, why to make all this stuff through months if in the end the guy will be back some months later? Maybe the last issue regarding this would happen like few weeks before and then Dc guys would look dumbs. Guess then their strategy for this at least is easier to understand now.


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 4, 2009)

Gah! Morrison's explanation for the Omega Sanction is annoying me... I still don't get why Batty's corpse was left behind.

My brain refuses to let go of this one aspect. Or understand it.


----------



## Rod (Feb 4, 2009)

Knowing that Morrison said has perhaps plans for WW recently and likes to go happy random.

Then maybe Bruce will at some point in the story (in case it's sucessive) remember about the myth and try find the millenary immortals Amazons to ask a favour for Greek gods that come in great handy.


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Feb 4, 2009)

Rod said:


> Then we witness it's Jean Paul Valley
> 
> Just when *noone mentioned or remembered about him or thought he was dead*, the mofo does it again.



The only time they gave a shit about him was in his own book. The batfamily never cared otherwise.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 4, 2009)

Neil Gaiman said:
			
		

> “The Batman stuff is awesome,” Gaimain said. “I don’t know whether or not what I’ve **done** is awesome; I was asked to write the last Batman story and I did or at least I wrote what I would want to see as the last Batman story. But on the way I got to ask the impossible of [penciler] Andy Kubert, not once but often twice a page, and Andy and [inker] Scott Williams just came through. It’s astonishing, I’ve seen issue one and I’m really just unbelievably proud of what Andy and Scott have done, it’s wonderful. And what I’ve seen of issue two, it’s better. And while at the end of the second issue they may be wanting to burn me in effigy, I think they will be wanting to make Andy Kubert some sort of comics god.”



from some Gaiman interview of which I lost the link to


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 4, 2009)

Bergelmir said:


> Gah! Morrison's explanation for the Omega Sanction is annoying me... I still don't get why Batty's corpse was left behind.
> 
> My brain refuses to let go of this one aspect. Or understand it.


 
There was no corpse.  That was solicit page, I thought.


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 4, 2009)

Agmaster said:


> There was no corpse.  That was solicit page, I thought.



Even if it was, Superman is still holding the body when he confronts Darkseid in issue 7. ...eh, if it actually means something, Morrison will tell us in due time. I'll just have to go crazy over it in the mean time.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 4, 2009)

maybe it's the same as what Superman did with Supergirl?  replace it with a corpse to trick people


----------



## Rod (Feb 4, 2009)

But then Superman would need a strong purpose to do that, otherwise,  unless Bruce actually asked him so, then Clark is letting the Gotham people and Bruce's personal friends like Selina, Alfred, Dick, Tim for example go all nuts for nothing.

It's strange how Clark acted emotionless in front of his dead friend yes, I mean no tears, no "I'll revenge you mate", etc... but dunno if it's enough or just coincidence or maybe just that Mahnke simply didn't get it or something, but that it's strange, it is.



Jugglenaut said:


> The only time they gave a shit about him was in his own book. The batfamily never cared otherwise.



It just makes a victory of him more win 

and then this again:


----------



## Rod (Feb 4, 2009)

So Morrison just confirmed, Bruce returns in June.



> _*NRAMA:* You mentioned that there was one scene that you included at DC's request at the end - was that the scene showing that essentially, everyone was okay, with Lois narrating...or later...in the cave?
> 
> *GM:* The scene was with Batman. I’d made it a little more ambiguous but *DC editorial didn’t want readers to think Batman might actually be dead for more than a fortnight*, so I revised the last page to be somewhat ‘on the nose’, as they say in Hollywood.
> 
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Feb 4, 2009)

we all knew that he was coming back

it's no guarrantee he's writting Bruce, seriously for all we know he's doing the winner of the Battle (he chose the winner and just told the other writers to "run with it")


----------



## Rod (Feb 4, 2009)

Seriously man. If he returns to talk about Wayne's parentage (mainly Thomas) without Bruce to check it's consequences, can foresee rage from people.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 4, 2009)

I wonder if Hurt turns out to be "the devil", if there will be a connection with the Shadowless Man from Gothic, Morrison just loves to reference himself.


----------



## Rod (Feb 4, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I wonder if Hurt turns out to be "the devil", if there will be a connection with the Shadowless Man from Gothic, Morrison just loves to reference himself.



Oh that would be interesting 

I just hope it's not a very complicated reference that would make the plot looking out of place, but some like the references in FC7 fashion to other works, would be fine, well, this in my opinion of course.


------------------------------------------------------------------

Hei look at this:





> GM: Again, I don’t think you need to know anything about New Genesis or any other information apart from what’s in the story. Darkseid wasn’t shot in the heart. We all know Batman doesn’t kill people, hasn’t killed people for 70 years and isn’t about to start here. It’s a big enough deal for Batman to pick up a gun. He winged Turpin knowing that the Radion in the bullet would be enough to poison Darkseid’s divine essence. Radion only kills gods after all. It slays ideas. After that shot, Darkseid is dying, just as someone with radiation poisoning might slowly expire, as Superman explains in #7. The Black Racer drags him struggling away into oblivion over the course of that issue until nothing remains but the fading, ghost-echoes of his malice.



So Batman wasn't intending to kill the mofo afterall. 

Giving Bruces behaviour, guess it's a hint we can expect some over complex plan he built since the beginning.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 4, 2009)

if Thomas was revealed to be in colusion with "the devil" it would make even MORE sense that the Shadowless Man would be involved.

Since "Gothic" implied that the deaths of Thomas and Martha were some kinda hex he put on him


----------



## Rod (Feb 4, 2009)

Maybe Hurt is Hush's daddy who wants revenge 

afterall he was said to be a dude who abused his son, liked orgies and these kinds of parties, wasting money and whatnot and just hates Thomas for not saving him

It makes much sense



Kilowog said:


> if Thomas was revealed to be in colusion with "the devil" it would make even MORE sense that the Shadowless Man would be involved.
> 
> Since "Gothic" implied that the deaths of Thomas and Martha were some kinda hex he put on him



Man if this happens. There'll be tons of theories before the arc is over, imagine the more "all is a conspiracy" dudes... It would be really interesting yes.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 6, 2009)

FINALLY



*Spoiler*: _guess who? :LOS_


----------



## mow (Feb 6, 2009)

holy fucking fuck@!


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 6, 2009)

heh, pretty good. Who knows, they might actually make me forget what a horrible character batwoman is so far (seriously, she's basically just a lesbian bruce wayne, it's so dumb).


----------



## Rod (Feb 6, 2009)

One character that gives me an unconfortable feeling about it's usefulness is Batwoman, sincerely don't know why they ressurected her, it's like there was totally no need for this, same thing as Jason Todd in my opinion.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 6, 2009)

So Batwoman is a seducing-hands-on kind of Bat-vigilante?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 6, 2009)

> they might actually make me forget what a horrible character batwoman is so far


Batwoman really isn't even a character, Rucka created her then left without DOING anything, I think he actually has a concrete plan to making her work, he just hasn't done it yet.



> (seriously, she's basically just a lesbian bruce wayne, it's so dumb).


there are no dumb ideas, only dumb writers.  seriously how many completely stupid crap has turned out good because of the writer?





> sincerely don't know why they ressurected her,


she's a new character


----------



## Rod (Feb 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> she's a new character



Yeah, I know that. But I meant/was refering to the concept of Batwoman, what was quite forgotten in the past already.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 6, 2009)

well what are YOU going to call a woman who dresses up like a Bat?


----------



## Rod (Feb 6, 2009)

Look, I'm not saying what to put the name with, man. It was regarding the concept at all, whole, the character Batwoman that was already dead (In the forgotten sense, like many of the old Batman stories) in the past and it got a "rezz".

Kinda like Jason Todd while a figure for example (not the name itself), but in Batwoman's case, guess it's even older.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> well what are YOU going to call a woman who dresses up like a Bat?



a furry?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 6, 2009)

> the concept at all, whole


giving Renee a superhero girlfriend?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm still heckled that Cassandra Cain was shoved aside for Kate.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 6, 2009)

show proof this time CBG


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> FINALLY
> 
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _guess who? :LOS_



Batwoman's a fucking vampire.


----------



## Rod (Feb 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> giving Renee a superhero girlfriend?



wtf lol

No mate. Not really that way, It's regarding to the whole Batwoman concept itself, of a woman dressed as a bat counter parting to Batman, that's what I intend for her in Bat mythos unically. Not regarding her lesbianism of course.

Man x man = yes problems 

Woman x woman = no problems.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 6, 2009)

so you want all batman related females to be given non bat related names?


----------



## Rod (Feb 6, 2009)

Not in the way you're refering mate, but for me Batwoman was not needed to get rezzed back from the 50's. Not a clear purpose for me to reintroduce her again or create another sidekick in Gotham, but this in my opinion obviously.


----------



## Rod (Feb 6, 2009)

Hmm...

It seems Bruce was feeling lonely in that new "Batcave" of him.

Look what the guy was drawing:


----------



## Castiel (Feb 6, 2009)

wow Rucka's doing more than 1 monthly

He's on WoNK, and AC/DC for a full year


----------



## Rod (Feb 6, 2009)

Man, a thing I sincerely can't wait to know are new Dini's plans for Bats


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> FINALLY
> 
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _guess who? :LOS_



Batwoman's color scheme matches Terry's.  That's so not cool.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 6, 2009)

McGinnis was obv a vampire.  Twilight Style.  Evolved from Batwoman.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 6, 2009)

it's like you just wanted to make a +1


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> show proof this time CBG



Well, WAS there a demand for _another_ female analogue of Batman? Specifically Batwoman? It's DC's redux of the Silver Age -- everything old is new again.

In addition, Batgirl wasn't cancelled for its poor sales. In fact, it sold more than Catwoman every time, and remained consistent in its sales throughout, often being in the 60s of the top 100 comics sold around 2005. Robin and Nightwing, during those times, often tapered in the 50s and 40s range respectively.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 7, 2009)

I dunno if it'd be fair to say Batwoman is replacing Cain. If she were called batgirl you'd have a stronger case there...  I do think that Batwoman is without a doubt too many sidekicks for Batman. But eh, at the same time, that is a really cool preview and I want to read the whole thing.  :\


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 7, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> I dunno if it'd be fair to say Batwoman is replacing Cain. If she were called batgirl you'd have a stronger case there...



Like I said, it's part of the Silver Age redux -- everything old is new again.



> I do think that Batwoman is without a doubt too many sidekicks for Batman. But eh, at the same time, that is a really cool preview and I want to read the whole thing.  :\



Same.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 7, 2009)

New York ComiCon said:
			
		

> When the crowd had only three successful guesses (out of eight) but couldn't get any more of them, Dan DiDio stood up in the audience to guess all the books being announced for June.
> 
> The other comic book series beginning in June are:
> 
> ...



Assuming that it is Cassandra Cain in that cowl, if Beechen is writing that again, I may put myself out of my misery to spare myself from the abuse.

Then again, Oracle: The Cure ends in May, and Batgirl begins in June. . .

Does that mean that Barbara may actually take up the cowl again?

(Well, if she does, where would that leave Batwoman?)

But jeez, that's a lot of titles for the Bat family.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *New York ComiCon, Battle for the Cowl panel*
> When the crowd had only three successful guesses (out of eight) but couldn't get any more of them, Dan DiDio stood up in the audience to guess all the books being announced for June.
> 
> The other comic book series beginning in June are:
> ...


I wonder if this is going to be "All Star" or regular?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 7, 2009)

> Does that mean that Barbara may actually take up the cowl again?


DiDio confirmed she is never going to walk again


----------



## Ral (Feb 7, 2009)

Bruce will always be Bruce.

No one can replace him.


----------



## Arishem (Feb 7, 2009)

I don't think Bruce will mind if someone takes up the cowl while he explores the pleasures of paleolithic life.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 7, 2009)

Dini and Nicieza are confirmed for the remaining June slots.  Dustin Nguyen will reunite with Dini.

Anyways Rucka is on for 12 issues, first 4 is an intro arc, then the next 3 is her origin, then he moves onto "cool stuff". 

Also Rucka says he's going to be using Gotham Central characters who are not named Renee or Chis, I DEMAND Marcus Driver 

Rucka will address how the hell Bullock became a cop again

Deathstroke confirmed to be going after the Outsiders.  

Alfred will enter pimp mode as Outsider's leader and will be kicking ass.

Talia and Jason Todd meet and follow up on the Winick annual 

Hush will not be in BftC but in one of the June books 

At least 1 Bat-book will directly tie into Blackest Night


The Batman corpse from FC will be addressed in the batbooks.


All of the BoP will be in BftC (I hope this includes Misfit)


Fabian actually has an explanation for how Tim grew his hair back.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 8, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> DiDio confirmed she is never going to walk again



Which leaves me wondering what this "cure is about".

If it's for her paralysis, then already we know she fails.

Something else then. . .


----------



## Rod (Feb 8, 2009)

> Dini and Nicieza are confirmed for the remaining June slots. Dustin Nguyen will reunite with Dini.



Nice to hear about Dini. Fucking victory.


> Anyways Rucka is on for 12 issues, first 4 is an intro arc, then the next 3 is her origin, then he moves onto "cool stuff".



So maybe part of it happens before RIP or flashbacks 



> Alfred will enter pimp mode as Outsider's leader and will be kicking ass.



Owlman wtf ?!?!?! 



> All of the BoP will be in BftC (I hope this includes Misfit)



Oh this is turning out to be some big party. everyone is geting invited it seems.



> Fabian actually has an explanation for how Tim grew his hair back.



lol




> Originally Posted by New York ComiCon, Battle for the Cowl panel
> When the crowd had only three successful guesses (out of eight) but couldn't get any more of them, Dan DiDio stood up in the audience to guess all the books being announced for June.
> 
> The other comic book series beginning in June are:
> ...



So here my guess:

Batman: Back to the future: The adventures of Bruce Wayne.

Batman & Robin: The two new weirdos, I think.

Although this may confuse, did Grant say he was going to write the new duo?( guess then refering to that new Batman & Robin title one) So maybe he'll handle two books, or another dude will be in the Batman's solely title? 

Anways it seems we have two Batman specific books. So guess this "SoG" is related to the non goddamn Batman (new) and the other title  ..well already said what I believe.

One thing is certain... Let's see how much time Dc is willing to afford without Bruce Wayne in the books, betting 7- 8 months in Batwoman and so on... It's fine in the beginning and people will have a look out of curiosity, but realistically till when will endure this? In the end Batman is the unique individual best-seller of them, perhaps sticking to it (No Bruce=Batman) for a prolonged time may hurt that or harm some of the readers' enthusiam, so guess this is why I think at least one of these books is related with him.

However, see lots of Bat related/derived titles in this, Dc is right regarding that, should invest in what it sells. And Batman does fucking deliver, buddy.


----------



## mow (Feb 8, 2009)

i see your point, and DC is pulling the same with the supes family books, but with such a creative team behind both projects, they will not only make things interesting but really push forward the cast in ways never reached before due to the bright star of both main characters


----------



## Rod (Feb 8, 2009)

Yeah, personally I've faith in it, and i'm expecting some great stories that can be derived from.

More looking from an administrative pov only, specially for Batman titles, this may be risky anyways. This sounds silly but it's to notice that after FC some people will take some batvacations until Bruce is back, not that the guys are lame, it's just that lack of interest/motivation or personal tastes, personally I have to confess I may feel like that sometimes when thinking about that too, the stories would be looking really great but still an uncorfortable feeling left, what really sucks because they seem to be definitely good ones to enjoy. But i guess can't help that, it's more like a natural thing when we lost interest for something. Sincerely do believe more like that way is what may harm that good wave that Batman is passing atm.

Anyways, I think that regarding specifically Superman and Wonder - Woman clearly they needed modifications or a change in direction in the way they were conducted, so it sounds more natural for them some shaking in their stories, monthly just looking at the trinity related books, Batman was rapestomping them, in many if we put the numbers of SM and WW together and add it would still be far from Batman's numbers (How ironic, in "real" world he sol0s both them ). If DC still has it's name in the top 10 it's because of that and FC, so guess that's a danger signal some administrative decisions went wrong at some point for Clark and Diana's related stories. However it's to notice how dificult is to fix things in this case, current WW is good, Gail is doing some great work but even with that it's not enough to recover people (mainly the ones lost in AA), so the guys really have to take care to not drop the ball otherwise it'll be hard to heal after. However, let's see how it turns up, can only wish we get the the best, for everyone's sake.


----------



## Rod (Feb 8, 2009)

Oh look. Just now I realise... Batman... Robin ... even Red Robin...

Nightwing???? NOT 



> According to newsarama, all the titles are definitly ongoing.
> And Batgirl starts one month after the Oracle mini ends...
> 
> I guess that hints strongly that Babs will be Batgirl again.
> ...


about Batgirl:

This guy may be on to something 

about the one to die: 

omagat perhaps Dick 

But man... God knows I so want they to fuck it up about Damian. Hope they reveal the DNA is not Bruce's and hope he dies in a fire. 

or like Superboy.


----------



## Bender (Feb 8, 2009)

From what I learned although Batman's body has perished his mind is wandering so does this mean that he could possibly come back to life?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 8, 2009)

Dick's gonna be the temporary Batman until Bruce returns late 2010 (that's why there won't be a Nightwing onging), his sidekick will be Damien in the new Batman and Robin, and Tim will become Red Robin. Also, Jason is gonna do something stupid and get "killed", only to be rescued by Talia Al Ghul. There, I called it. 

When it turns out that I'm right about any one of these things I'll be sure to bring up this post so I can rub it in all your faces.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 8, 2009)

ok so:

Batman - Morrison/unknown artist
(follows Bruce?)

Outsiders - Tomasi/Garbett
(Alfred leads the Outsiders, also there is an Owlman)

Detective Comics - Rucka/Williams III
(Batwoman series)

Batman: The Streets of Gotham - Dini/Nguyen?
(BTAS style done in one stories?)

Red Robin - I think this is obviously Nicieza/??
(Tim in a new costume?)

Batgirl - Tony Daniel? [he mentioned a few times Batgirl is a book he's wanted to do forever]
(Batgirl became pretty important in Outsiders recently, and she was formally adopted by Bruce before RIP so I'm betting she's sticking around)

Batman and Robin - ??/??
(follows the new dynamic duo?)

Gotham City Sirens - ??/??
(Catwoman, Huntress and the remnants of BoP?)




> Which leaves me wondering what this "cure is about".


don't you read solicits?  the entire plot of the Oracle mini is about Calculator trying to master the remnants of the ALE and use it to CURE Wendy after Wonderdog mauled her.


----------



## Rod (Feb 8, 2009)

Don't know why but SoG kinda remembers a name that fits a Dini's style of story for me. So think it's between that or B&R. I think SoG will be the new Batman solely's provisory book while the main Batman book will deal with Bruce's various sucessions lifes or trying to find a way to return.


Sincerely if it's about mindfuck again, I hope they get it serious...but really dead serious above of all we got now, they have to destroy Bruce's mind in a way he never dreamed of. What i'll say here is fucken sick but something like seeing Thomas kiling his mother,assassinating his grandpa to put hands in the fortune, Tim being a drug addicted, Dick being a misguided promoting orgies on the house and being a mafious on the company together with Lucius,and on his (Dick) crazyness to teach a lesson in Cass and having his revenge on her raping and impregnating her eventually making her life and his own child's life as miserable as possible for fun, joker leaving arkham and killing Barbara this time, Clark cheating on Lois having mad sex with Selina, also (Clark) in the watchtower with Diana while talking about him (Batman) with her laughing out loud that she made he thinks that feels attracted for him, well, whatsoever shit that pushes Bruce really really far at the edge of the nonsense here is welcome.

In the end he would overcome (duh) and it would be glorious.


----------



## Ziko (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm not really into comics, but out of what I've read on several forums it seems that there are plenty of different "versions" of each comic. Like, Batman several stories, and I really don't like the way they are going with this. I love the batman movies and animated series, so say I want to check out the comics, well, I'm now stuck between reading 10 different series and don't know which one to pick...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Batgirl - Tony Daniel? [he mentioned a few times Batgirl is a book he's wanted to do forever]
> (Batgirl became pretty important in Outsiders recently, and she was formally adopted by Bruce before RIP so I'm betting she's sticking around)



I admit, it'd be interesting. But June is a long ways away. . . until the solicits.



> don't you read solicits?  the entire plot of the Oracle mini is about Calculator trying to master the remnants of the ALE and use it to CURE Wendy after Wonderdog mauled her.



The remaining Wondertwin? Who fell victim to McKeever?


----------



## Taxman (Feb 9, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Batwoman's color scheme matches Terry's.  That's so not cool.



so schway 



> The remaining Wondertwin? Who fell victim to McKeever?


and this reminds me that I lol'd at that attack more than I should have



> I'm not really into comics, but out of what I've read on several forums it seems that there are plenty of different "versions" of each comic. Like, Batman several stories, and I really don't like the way they are going with this. I love the batman movies and animated series, so say I want to check out the comics, well, I'm now stuck between reading 10 different series and don't know which one to pick...


If you just want to follow the character of Batman...just read Batman and Detective Comics. 

You could possibly read Batman Gotham Knights (canceled) as well, but that usually incorporates other things like villain perspectives and what not.

If you want to see possible cameos of him in other series with members of the Bat family:
Robin - currently canceled
Nightwing - currently canceled
Batgirl - currently canceled
Batman and the Outsiders - currently won't have batman in it for awhile.
Batman/superman - don't bother with this one
Catwoman

Then you have his appearances with the JLA

The real only time you'd need to venture out of batman and Detecitve comics is if there is an overreaching arc with the other comics..and even those are told through the perspective of the character whose name is on the title.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 9, 2009)

Rucka interview





> The remaining Wondertwin? Who fell victim to McKeever?


yes she's his daughter, we even saw Calculator make his "I vow to cure you" speech in TT



> and this reminds me that I lol'd at that attack more than I should have


same


----------



## The Rook (Feb 10, 2009)

Crazy idea...

There are two Batmen after BftC.  Dick partners up with Robin in Batman and Robin, and Tim has the solo Batman book.  Crazier things have happened and it somewhat works with Batman #666.

I was hoping that Robin would become Red Robin though, so that works too.  But they might also try to make us care about Jason Todd by giving him the title.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 10, 2009)

Red Robin has to be about Tim Drake. Whether that means both Dick and Tim get solo books plus a book together, or maybe Batman is about Bruce in the past and Batman and Robin is about Dick and Damian, is not clear, but I'd put money on it being one of those two things. Obviously, Detective Comics will be all about Batwoman for a while.


----------



## WarriorS (Feb 10, 2009)

I've heard rumors of "Frank Quitely" on _Batman_...


----------



## mow (Feb 10, 2009)

^ oh, please make it so <3


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 10, 2009)

WarriorS said:


> I've heard rumors of "Frank Quitely" on _Batman_...



I've heard these rumours too.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman & The Outsiders Special #1 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2009)

Batman was fucking great, it was just so Gaimanesque it felt like a Sandman story.  Can't wait to see how it ends.

The BATO special was neat, Bruce's final words to Alfred were touching.  My one issue with this is that it felt too short, but I'll forgive it since the next issue is next week.

Nightwing was _ok_, as an issue it was good, as a FINAL issue it failed. could have been longer. seemed like Tomasi was a big rush to finish his run that it could have been a lot smoother.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 11, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Batman was fucking great, it was just so Gaimanesque it felt like a Sandman story.  Can't wait to see how it ends.



*FUCKING CONCUR*

I hope it's "her" with Batman. . . of all people to be with Batman in the end. . . please, oh please, let it be "her". . .


----------



## Deviate (Feb 11, 2009)

Who would that be?


----------



## Sylar (Feb 11, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> *FUCKING CONCUR*
> 
> I hope it's "her" with Batman. . . of all people to be with Batman in the end. . . please, oh please, let it be "her". . .



Hmmmm but it couldn't be "her" because we all know he's alive at the beginning of time...

Unless I'm thinking of a different "her" than you are. 

But yeah what an awesome comic.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 12, 2009)

Deviate said:


> Who would that be?


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2009)

I still don't know who that's supposed to be :|


----------



## Castiel (Feb 12, 2009)

are you kidding me?


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2009)

Explain it to me. I haven't been reading comics for that long, really.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 12, 2009)

Death of the Endless, from Sandman.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2009)

I guess sometime I should read Sandman huh.

Or kill myself.


----------



## mow (Feb 12, 2009)

Niel you will never stop making me awe struck with every word you pen.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 12, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> I guess sometime I should read Sandman huh.
> 
> Or kill myself.



this is correct


----------



## Castiel (Feb 12, 2009)

the Origins and Omens story for Nightwing was interesting, it appears to hint at the events of BftC

we see Dick training Damian in the cave with Talia looking on.
he's kissing what I assume to be Batwoman
being stalked by a shadowy Batman figure
being held at gunpoint by someone in a bat costume


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2009)

That's not what Batwoman's costume looks like, it looks like barbara's costume.


----------



## Slice (Feb 12, 2009)

"Whatever happened to the caped crusader" was ace! I just love that issue. I'm wondering  how this will turn out with the people telling their stories how they picture Bruce's death - and of course how it is possible for Joe Chill to be there,

Maybe it is just Bruce imagining how it all _could_ look like.


----------



## Rod (Feb 12, 2009)

686:

Perhaps that's the Omega sanction, afterall he keeps dying it seems. Eventually we will see how he escaped for the cave in next issue.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 12, 2009)

I think it's taking place in the Dreaming


----------



## Rod (Feb 12, 2009)

I just hope when Bruce returns he also returns to use the badass mood uniform.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 13, 2009)

filler post


----------



## Castiel (Feb 13, 2009)

filler post.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 13, 2009)

> *1. To kick things off Dan, one of the big announcements coming from DC was the new Batman-related titles that are coming in June. Can you go into any more detail about them than you did at the con, more particularly about the characters that will be appearing in them, their tone, and what niches they’ll fill?*
> 
> Dan DiDio: Sure- how about we talk about some of the characters? What you’re going to see in Gotham City Sirens is Catwoman, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy, and some other guest stars along the way, but those will be the three leads in that book, and it picks up directly from the ‘Faces of Evil’ conversation with Hush.
> 
> ...


.                               .


----------



## Castiel (Feb 13, 2009)

> *BATMAN: BATTLE FOR THE COWL #3
> Written by Tony Daniel
> Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> Covers by Tony Daniel *
> ...









> *BATMAN: BATTLE FOR THE COWL – THE NETWORK #1
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Don Kramer
> Cover by Ladrönn *
> ...









> *GOTHAM GAZETTE: BATMAN ALIVE? #1
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Dustin Nguyen, Guillem March, Jamie McKelvie, ChrisCross and Alex Konat
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen *
> ...









> *AZRAEL: DEATH'S DARK KNIGHT #3
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Frazer Irving
> Cover by Guillem March *
> ...









> *ORACLE #3
> Written by Kevin VanHook
> Art by Julian Lopez & Bit
> Cover by Guillem March *
> ...










> *THE OUTSIDERS #18
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art and cover by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott *
> 
> ...




















> *BATMAN IN BARCELONA: DRAGON'S KNIGHT #1
> Written by Mark Waid
> Art by Diego Olmos
> Cover by Jim Lee *
> ...


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Feb 13, 2009)

I heard that we are getting a Batwoman, is dis true?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 13, 2009)

That's a fugly Networks cover.

And the return of Black Mask? Really?


----------



## Rod (Feb 13, 2009)

Well, sooner or later they needed to redeem Selina somewhat. Also to keep her morale conceivable for Bruce's life.


Personally, I guess DC is pushing some advanced development into them mainly in these last months, i don't think it'll be that long until they get officially together (of course, giving Bruce's return circunstances only) seeing as there's no more hide feelings between, the current development reached at a point that is very clear each other know the situation of mutual love as there was already declaration, confession, and whatnot... Considering we are already seeing "because you love me", "i'll always love you  no matter what happens" etc... and Grant stating in one of the books he was already in the thirties or something (i guess it was said "mid") so seems to be more or less the average age Bruce gets definitely hooked up with her in another stories, also to don't be too late until they have a child, what is not a new and usually a recurrent theme involving this couple too.


PS: That network art is really sucking.


----------



## Blue Beetle (Feb 13, 2009)

I went with Dick Grayson. Even though I always think Bruce is Batman, if I had to choose someone else other than Bruce then it'd be Dick. LOL 

I've heard from two sides of the coin on R.I.P. I'm tempted to read it, but I am just never sure. xD


EDIT: AND OMG IS THAT THE CREEPER??!!?!?! *fangirls* I LOVE HIM! And metemorpho! Epic!


----------



## Rod (Feb 14, 2009)

Hope DC picks up Joe Bennett for one of those Batman centered books, top quality work with fast deliver is all we need.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 14, 2009)

> And the return of Black Mask? Really?


hahahaha I so called it





> PS: That network art is really sucking.


ladronn just does covers, the interiors is from Kramer who is pretty good.


----------



## Blue Beetle (Feb 14, 2009)

Black Mask? Heck yeah. 

And I think Batwoman is really moving up She's pretty cool. Though I still think Bruce is the only one for the cowl. xD


----------



## Bender (Feb 14, 2009)

WTF? 

Black Mask? 

I thought Selina killed his ass! 

So does this mean Johnny Stitches of Intergang is no longer the boss of bosses in Gotham city? 

You gotta be shitting me 

Also gun-toting Jason Todd as Batman kicks ass 

I hope he's the new Batmn that is if Bruce somehow miraculously returns


----------



## Rod (Feb 14, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> ladronn just does covers, the interiors is from Kramer who is pretty good.



Yeah, was refering to that image only, though.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 14, 2009)

That 'the network' cover is horrible


----------



## Deviate (Feb 14, 2009)

Nothing like oddly shaped breasts.


----------



## Slice (Feb 14, 2009)

> DD: Well, there wouldn?t be much of a battle for the cowl if we had Booster go back and grab him ? although from that last panel, it doesn?t even look like he needs the cowl, as he casts the shadow without it on [laughs].
> 
> Obviously, there are a lot reasons that go into it, and a lot reasons that are related to telling the best, most dramatic story we can. I really can?t go into too much detail about the plans, b*ut what I can say is that the outline and plan for his return is known at this point*.



As much as i think that Bruce is the only worthy Batman, i wish they had the balls to keep him dead (or in this case missing).


also:

What the hell happened to her face? wasnt Barbara supposed to be pretty?



Stick that face on the body they painted for Cassandra on the Networks cover and it looks like something that just escaped Area 51.


----------



## Deviate (Feb 14, 2009)

Slice said:


> What the hell happened to her face? wasnt Barbara supposed to be pretty?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 





Yeah, what's up with that? It looks like she's getting the butsex, but how the fuck would she be able to feel the pain?


----------



## Blue Beetle (Feb 14, 2009)

I thought that version of Cassandra as Batman with something strapped to his chest. O___O

Yeah.... I do like that Ragman though. >_>


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 15, 2009)

...Huh. Why is Two-Face fighting for the Batty's cowl?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 15, 2009)

. . . Where the hell is Barbara Gordon on the 3 covers?


----------



## mow (Feb 15, 2009)

Bergelmir said:


> ...Huh. Why is Two-Face fighting for the Batty's cowl?



it all goes back to *Face The Face* arc in Batman #651 - 654 & Detective Comics #817 - 820 when Bruce gets back after the one year absence from IC where batman left gathom under the protection of Dent while he was away after he got plastic surgery and regained his identity and suppressed Two-Face.

one of my fav arcs, actually


----------



## Castiel (Feb 15, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> . . . Where the hell is Barbara Gordon on the 3 covers?



same reason Azrael isn't on any of them, they're busy with their own minis.



> ...Huh. Why is Two-Face fighting for the Batty's cowl?


like mow said, he was trained to protect Gotham in FtF.  He's now a pretty decent fighter, well enough to handle his own against Tim or Dick.  plus he had weapons training from DEATHSTROKE.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> same reason Azrael isn't on any of them, they're busy with their own minis.



Alrighty then.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 15, 2009)

might as well put this here since it's the last issue




*Spoiler*: _Birds of Prey #127 preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 17, 2009)

Is this another one where the comic isn't actually what it was solicited to be?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 17, 2009)

> *SECRET SIX #9
> Written by Gail Simone
> Art by Nicola Scott & Doug Hazlewood
> Cover by Nicola Scott *
> ...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 17, 2009)

Either Bane or Deadshot.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 17, 2009)

good idea DC, but really this should have been solicited MUCH earlier






> *BATMAN: THE BLACK CASEBOOK TP
> Written by Bill Finger, Edmond Hamilton and others
> Art by Sheldon Moldoff, Dick Sprang and others
> Cover by Alex Ross *
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Feb 18, 2009)

> semi-delusional Ragdoll determined to be the new Boy Wonder!


just imagine Ragdoll wearing the original Robin costume


----------



## Castiel (Feb 18, 2009)

Outsiders was decent enough.  This whole "Insiders" concept kinda came out of nowhere but kinda fits with what Dixon was doing.

also according to O&O:
Geo and BL fight
Deathstroke goes crazy
Alfred and Owlman fight



Robin was pretty good, a nice enough ending to Nicieza's run and a good bridge between Search of a Hero and Battle for the Cowl.  Interesting though that Robin shows *absolutely* no interest in being the new Batman.  neat usage of Jason though.

O&O showed:

Tim sides with Ra's Al Ghul
Tim gets into an argument with Dick
Jason Batman has his gun pointed at the 4th wall.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 18, 2009)




----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 18, 2009)

New Black Mask or same old?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 19, 2009)

I'm betting it's either the original or Director Bones 

Bones is a white skull head, though he could have painted his head.  He was a pretty important character in Manhunter (who will now be Gotham's DA), plus one of his powers includes making people go up in flames if they get near him (like what happened to the guy in the art).  He appeared to have been killed in Final Crisis

but then again I could be over thinking all of this


----------



## WarriorS (Feb 19, 2009)

Wait a second... did Secret Six become an ongoing without me knowing about it?


----------



## Slice (Feb 19, 2009)

Last Birds of Prey issue just felt wrong, it was a really dissatisfying ending to the arc and as such fails as a final Issue.

Barbaras departure just felt forced.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 19, 2009)

WarriorS said:


> Wait a second... did Secret Six become an ongoing without me knowing about it?



the current series was always an ongoing


----------



## Castiel (Feb 19, 2009)

completed panoramic cover, with new people added


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 19, 2009)

Wildcat. . . but no Onyx?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 19, 2009)

always something with you isn't it?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 20, 2009)

Just trying to live up to my Simpsons' counterpart's namesake.

I haven't used the "WORST. _x_. EVER." line yet.


----------



## Sylar (Feb 20, 2009)

Why no Hush?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 20, 2009)

I think they have plans for him for when BftC is over, guess it would be too complicated to chuck him in now.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 20, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> completed panoramic cover, with new people added


Oh man....those girls is sexy.  Robin in the middle's deliberate misleading, though.    I'm liking the villian art.  Harl, Nig, and 2Face are pimp looking.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 20, 2009)

Mr. Nigma does indeed look "pimpin"


----------



## Deviate (Feb 20, 2009)

Who is the armored Batman? The one without the guns (lol @ Jason Todd trying to replace his mentor as a gun user, like Bucky is now a gun wielding Cap.)


----------



## Castiel (Feb 20, 2009)

The Knight, basically England's Batman.  The girl with the slingshot is his squire.

)
)


also like CBG said, Jason Todd is the poor man's Bucky.


----------



## Deviate (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks for that. I thought it might be Azrael in a new costume or something.

Batman's line up of women are hot.  @ Huntress


----------



## Castiel (Feb 20, 2009)

I love the Jim Lee Huntress costume :


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 20, 2009)

So that makes the girl up front....Knight's Catwoman?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 20, 2009)

that's Lynx, one of Robin's villains.

oh and Deviate here's the new Azrael costume


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 20, 2009)

So...are the villians trying to take the cowl for...use?


----------



## Deviate (Feb 20, 2009)

So Azrael is trying to copy Knight now?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 20, 2009)

> So...are the villians trying to take the cowl for...use?


Two-Face was trained by Batman and was basically the only hero in Gotham during OYL, so he feels entitled.

Riddler maybe just wants it because he has a massive ego.

Black Mask probably just wants the costume to go on a random killing spree (he has done like 3 times in the past)





> So Azrael is trying to copy Knight now?


that's the costume the monks gave the new Azrael


----------



## Castiel (Feb 21, 2009)

video interview with Marts, DiDio and Daniel about BftC.  interesting info


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 21, 2009)

mow said:


> it all goes back to *Face The Face* arc in Batman #651 - 654 & Detective Comics #817 - 820 when Bruce gets back after the one year absence from IC where batman left gathom under the protection of Dent while he was away after he got plastic surgery and regained his identity and suppressed Two-Face.
> 
> one of my fav arcs, actually





Kilowog said:


> same reason Azrael isn't on any of them, they're busy with their own minis.
> 
> like mow said, he was trained to protect Gotham in FtF.  He's now a pretty decent fighter, well enough to handle his own against Tim or Dick.  plus he had weapons training from DEATHSTROKE.



Ah. So its not Two-Face, but Harvey Dent going after the Cowl. Cool.



Kilowog said:


> completed panoramic cover, with new people added


Who's the bug-like guy next to Two-Face? 'Tis a new face to me.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 21, 2009)

Killer Moth maybe? Generally that character is just used as a joke though.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 21, 2009)

Todd dons the cowl pretty fast.

Wonder if it's out of respect or spite for Bruce. . .


----------



## Castiel (Feb 21, 2009)

I don't think he feels he has a choice.  Marts says that Jason is convinced that the only reason he's back is to replace Batman.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 22, 2009)

And going back to his pre-Countdown MO, thinks he's doing a better job than Bruce did.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 23, 2009)

Does anyone else think that the "3rd ghost/ 3rd man" will end up being Azrael?


			
				DC Comics solicits said:
			
		

> *Azrael: Death's Dark Knight #1*
> 
> He was a husband and a father. A brother and a friend. A cop and a dark knight. But he had all that taken away. And in return, he was given a suit of sorrows, a quest for redemption and a new name. He is Azrael, avenging angel for the Order of Purity and a new protector for Gotham City's troubled times. But who will protect the citizens from him?


The "third man" was a cop whose family was killed but the Black Glove (or Dr. Hurt? or Gotham PD?) for teh lulz the "Zurr En Arrh" experiment and he, technically, was Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 23, 2009)

^^ 



also BftC #1 variant


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 23, 2009)

Well, logically, that means Tim and Jason are the next variant covers.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 25, 2009)

ok so:

There are plans for Cassandra in 2009

It is neither confirmed or denied that Babs is going to be Batgirl again

It is neither confirmed or denied that Morrison will write *Batman and Robin*

Andy Kubert will be on two upcoming Batman projects.  He will actually be writting one of them.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 25, 2009)

DiDio was also (mis)quoted, saying "Batgirl: The Cure", according to Newsarama.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 27, 2009)

guess who's back from WC? 

also great news




> Moving on to the Batman titles, Sattler praised Battle for the Cowl’s first issue which is complete, and that it brings in many, many characters that have been in Batman over the past two years.
> 
> Reiterating the announcement at New York of eight Batman-themed books in June, Sattler announced that Paul Dini will write both Batman: Streets of Gotham and Gotham City Sirens. Dini said that he’s still breaking down what will be in the books, saying that Streets will take place all over Gotham City and involve a lot of people – from cops to citizens to other super heroes and villains, anyone who has a connection to Batman, but don’t know who Batman is. Their perceptions will offer a different view of the character than has been seen.
> 
> ...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 27, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> guess who's back from WC?



What you get, bought and signed?


----------



## Stalin (Feb 27, 2009)

Was Batman R.I.P any good?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 27, 2009)

depends on how much of a Morrison fan you are

but I personally thought it was pretty darn good


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 28, 2009)

I enjoyed RIP. Though, it's not for everyone, but it's not as difficult as FC.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 28, 2009)

Judd Winick will be taking over "Batman" after BftC.

also Brian Azzarello personally told me he is working on something Bat-related "for the summer", hinting that he is teaming up again with Eduardo Risso.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 28, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Gotham Gazette: Batman Dead? #1 preview_


----------



## Lucaniel (Mar 1, 2009)

Great cover.

I thought Batman (and obviously Bruce) had become some sort of bodiless existence? Who's his body double?


----------



## The Rook (Mar 1, 2009)

Thomas Eliot


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 1, 2009)

Who did plastic surgery on himself too look like Bruce.


----------



## Lucaniel (Mar 1, 2009)

Hush? Right then...


----------



## Slice (Mar 1, 2009)

Kinda ironic that right now Hush is the one person keeping everyone from discovering who Batman really was.

If they both mysteriously disappeared people would have asked questions


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 1, 2009)

Slice said:


> Kinda ironic that right now Hush is the one person keeping everyone from discovering who Batman really was.
> 
> If they both mysteriously disappeared people would have asked questions



B, I, N, G, O, and BINGO was his NAME-O!

Always wanted to use that once.


----------



## Nedeti (Mar 2, 2009)

wait! seriously batman is dead? show me proof or ill hang you!


----------



## Slice (Mar 2, 2009)

But technically he is not that dead he's just sitting in a cave several thousand years B.C.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 2, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Judd Winick will be taking over "Batman" after BftC.


"I'll be back on Batman in June" lol Morrison.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 2, 2009)

he never *did* say he was returning to the main Batbook now did he? 


anyways the current rumor is that Morrison will be on *Batman & Robin*, and will be working with different artists every arc (Phillip Tan, Doug Mahnke, and Frank Quitely are rumored)


----------



## Nedeti (Mar 2, 2009)

Slice said:


> But technically he is not that dead he's just sitting in a cave several thousand years B.C.



wait i don't get it...


----------



## lucky (Mar 3, 2009)

Nedeti said:


> wait i don't get it...



batman's not dead.  tha'ts his corpse but in another comic book (i fergot which one) it shows batman drawing on a cave wall with the first cro-magnon 'boy' beside him dying of old age.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 3, 2009)

OMEGA SANCTION'D.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 3, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Battle for the Cowl #1 preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 3, 2009)

Is that. . . Prometheus with Nightwing?


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Mar 3, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Is that. . . Prometheus with Nightwing?



That's what I was thinking too....but it doesn't look like his helmet exactly.
Edit: It's the Knight.


----------



## Bender (Mar 3, 2009)

Batman R.I.P. was beautiful

Or am I the only one who does not like the fact he did it with a black sexy mama and slapped her silly than proceeds to put the hurt on a doctor who pretends to be his daddy?


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 4, 2009)

He may also be the devil


----------



## Castiel (Mar 4, 2009)

Denny O'Neil's "Face of Gotham" was the narrator of "Gotham Gazette", which was kinda neat.

I liked all the stories, my favorite was probably the Bullock one.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 4, 2009)

Yeah... but they didn't really go anywhere. None of them felt like a complete story at all.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 4, 2009)

that's because the stories haven't finished yet






> Gotham Gazette: Batman Alive #1
> 
> *Written by Fabian Nicieza; Art by Dustin Nguyen, Guillem March, Jamie McKelvie, ChrisCross and Alex Konat; Cover by Dustin Nguyen*
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh. Well good! 

I was wondering, I mean it did say 1 shot on it.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 4, 2009)

they're "book end" one-shots, also if you want to know the story of the decapited body look below




*Spoiler*: _Azrael: Death's Dark Knight #1 Preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 4, 2009)

I like the art.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 5, 2009)

Interview with Dini




Interview with DiDio


----------



## Slice (Mar 6, 2009)

> *IGN Comics: I guess that last question was another way asking whether you plan to push the scope of Blackest Night a little further than you did in Crisis? *
> 
> DiDio: We'll probably push it a little further than we did with Final Crisis, but nowhere near what we did with Infinite Crisis or what other companies might do.



 



> Then also we'll be having a new Batgirl series coming out a little bit later, and you'll see how that plays into everything else too.



Anyone know more? Cassie? Barbara? or someone else?



> *IGN Comics: With Grant set to continue his Batman epic in June, some have the sneaking suspicion that Cowl and its tie-ins might just be a fill-in or stopgap before the true fireworks kickoff in June.*
> 
> DiDio: I would say they're completely wrong, how about that? [laughs] What you're going to see right now is a complete flow of what occurs in Cowl directly into not only Grant Morrison's Batman book but the other series that will be following as well.
> 
> You have to remember, Grant is coming on board, but we also announced a total of eight titles tied to Batman. That means we're coordinating all those titles to really build off of Cowl and the miniseries related to it.



So he basicly says that they will not bring Bruce back anytime soon, or did i read that wrong?


----------



## lucky (Mar 10, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Batman R.I.P. was beautiful
> 
> Or am I the only one who does not like the fact he did it with a black sexy mama and slapped her silly than proceeds to put the hurt on a doctor who pretends to be his daddy?



lol.  the name jezebel totally baited out her scene to me from the first issue i saw her.  

-j0e
(the biblical whore! )


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 10, 2009)

Outside of her name, other people probably saw it coming.


----------



## Sazabi24 (Mar 10, 2009)

batman got killed by darkseid


----------



## Slice (Mar 10, 2009)

sazabi24 said:


> batman got killed by darkseid





Sorry, just had to do it


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2009)

we are not worthy of this much awesome


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2009)

Scoreboard:

*Batman*
Judd Winick
Tony S. Daniel


*Batman & Robin*
Grant Morrison
Frank Quitely


*Detective Comics*
Greg Rucka
J.H. Williams III


*Batman: The Streets of Gotham*
Paul Dini
Dustin Nguyen


*Gotham City Sirens*
Paul Dini
???


*Outsiders*
Peter J. Tomasi
Lee Garbett


*Red Robin*
???
???


*Batgirl*
???
???


Related Facts?:

Eduardo Risso and Brian Azzarello are _confirmed_ to be writting a Batman story in the summer.  Given the fact that I find it HIGHLY unlikely they're going to write Batgirl or Red Robin, I'm banking on a *Batman Confidential* arc, a miniseries or an OGN.

Fabian Nicienza has been a key player in the Batbooks for over a year, but he has confirmed that he will not be writting one of the 8 ongoings.

Andy Kubert is confirmed to be working on two new Batman projects, one of them as a writer.


----------



## Slice (Mar 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Batman & Robin*
> Grant Morrison
> Frank Quitely



Is this outside the current continuity or does it feature the new Batman and Robin after BftC?



Kilowog said:


> *Batgirl*
> ???
> ???



I so hope the series is about Cass, i like her. I read somewhere that they do not intend on having a new Batgirl series revolving around her, but i can still hope


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2009)

> Is this outside the current continuity or does it feature the new Batman and Robin after BftC?


no fucking clue.  But Frank Quitely + Grant Morrison is one of those pairings I automatically buy.  I mean they made All-Star Superman, New X-Men and JLA: Earth 2

anyways here is the leaked image.


----------



## Slice (Mar 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I mean they made All-Star Superman, New X-Men and JLA: Earth 2





Kilowog said:


> All-Star Superman, New X-Men





Kilowog said:


> New X-Men



_Must_.... buy... new series....


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 11, 2009)




----------



## mow (Mar 11, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Scoreboard:
> 
> *Batman & Robin*
> Grant Morrison
> Frank Quitely





....


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 11, 2009)

Wow. Quitely managed to turn Robin into a Pedophilic Cassandra Cain.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 11, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: _Battle for the Cowl #1 preview_



one more page was leaked


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2009)

Nightwing + Damian most likely.


----------



## Inugami (Mar 11, 2009)

Batman can be only Bruce the others don't have his talents  and more important his personality .


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 11, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Nightwing + Damian most likely.



Please, no.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2009)

It's SOMEONE and Damian.

We know it's not out of continuity because the Batman title deals with some of the same plot threads. And that sure doesn't look like Tim in the Batman costume.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 11, 2009)

Clearly that's Barbara Gordon equipped with top-class holographic imaging tech.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 11, 2009)

it MUST be Damian, no one else could possibly be Robin at this point.  For Batman it's either Jason or Dick.

alos first issue of BftC was pretty neat, some of Daniels' best art and I lold at Damian trying to be all  like his dad.


----------



## Taxman (Mar 11, 2009)

hahaha...I knew it was going to be that particular villain when they said "a villain you thought dead would return"


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 11, 2009)

Tony Daniels is at his artistic best here.

Issue was a lot better than I expected it to be. If Daniels can keep this up for the next, he may be a promising writer.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 11, 2009)

it's nice to see an artist evolve their style for the better, I checked out a couple of his early stuff and his artwork was literally unrecognizable from Billy Tan's.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2009)

It's Dick Grayson. 

Morrison did a short interview for IGN, and while he doesn't give away the identities, he says there's a kind of reversal where Batman is more lighthearted and Robin is kind of the badass one. Also, sound effects will be in the comic. 

So it seems pretty clear what will happen. BftC 1 was narrated by Robin, 2 will be narrated by Jason, 3 will be Dick and he'll monologue us through his decision to take up the cowl. 

Then Morrison will use Dick as a vehicle for a semi-campy take on Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm guessing Dick and Damian in *Batman & Robin*, and Jason in *Batman*.  Which is good since Winick is the ONLY person who seems to have any idea of what to do with Jason and his arc seemed like it ended before he could get to his intended endgame (*THE ARC ENDED WITH CHEMO BLOWING UP BLUDHAVEN THEN JASON RUNS AWAY*) then he got stuck in crap like Bruce Jones' Nightwing and Countdown.




> Morrison did a short interview for IGN, and while he doesn't give away the identities, he says there's a kind of reversal where Batman is more lighthearted and Robin is kind of the badass one. Also, sound effects will be in the comic.



for people curious, here it is:


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2009)

Huh. I hadn't thought of that. Which would make Red Robin about Tim, of course. Makes sense.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 11, 2009)

> Grant Morrison: 'Batman and Robin', which opens with the 3-part 'Batman Reborn' arc, is maybe more poppy, and more colourful, but it's also creepier. It's like David Lynch doing the Batman TV show. *The story arcs are 4 short 3-part 'events', which combine to tell a longer, 12 part mystery. *
> 
> ...
> 
> Morrison:* Frank Quitely's coming back to the book to wrap up our year-long storyline* and I think we'd all love to see his take on the Joker, so yeah, I'd like to think I can make that happen in some way.



LitG, which is usually hit and miss with their rumors, has actually acurately predicted basically everything DC has been planning for Batman, which likely means their prediction about the creative team is correct as well.  Which is:

Frank Quitely doing two "bookend" arcs since he's not the fastest artist in the world

With the two middle arcs done by:

Doug Mahnke (who worked on Batman and with Morrison over the years so this makes sense)

and

Phillip Tan (a rising star at DC, possibly because Morrison wants to work with someone he never worked with before?)


----------



## Castiel (Mar 11, 2009)

I have to go  at no real explanation being given for Black Mask being alive, I mean this is the most we get



> Aren't you dead?
> 
> If I was dead I wouldn't be standing here you moron






Also I'm guessing that now that RIP is done with and Bruce is gone, Joker will put away "The Clown At Midnight" persona and recreate himself.


----------



## Taxman (Mar 11, 2009)

well it could be a different guy as Black Mask...=/....<__<

lol like Dr. Hurt


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 12, 2009)

I don't think they'll use Hurt so soon after RIP.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 12, 2009)

anyone else thinking this new series is kind of DC giving the middle finger to Frank Miller?

also if Hurt is ever coming back, it'll be in a Morrison series


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 12, 2009)

I wouldn't put it like that. After all, why give a big middle finger to a 'redesign' that worked so well? More likely, Morrison has some specific stuff he wants to do with Batman and DC is just letting him do it.

Look at it this way: if you're going to have a temporary stand in Batman, what's the point of making him a carbon copy of Bruce Wayne's Batman? Having Dick Grayson as Batman temporarily is, I'm sure Morrison feels, an opportunity to do a very different kind of Batman.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 12, 2009)

> I wouldn't put it like that.


I would because ASB&R is not good


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 12, 2009)

Well if they want to give him the finger for that they can fire him.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 12, 2009)

it was meant to be a (semi) humorous comment on my part.

All-Star Batman & Robin by Frank Miller & Jim Lee
All-Star Superman by Grant Morrison & Frank Quitely
Batman & Robin by Grant Morrison & Frank Quitely


----------



## Castiel (Mar 12, 2009)

Daniel interview


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 12, 2009)

As much reservation as I have for Two-Face going after the Cowl, he looks pretty awesome in his bat-costume.

EDIT: Anyone else think the bat symbol of the middle Batman looks really cool? I like it a lot more than the regular bat symbol.


----------



## Superstars (Mar 13, 2009)

I wonder where is Bruce?


----------



## Slice (Mar 13, 2009)

Superstars said:


> I wonder where is Bruce?



Chillin' in his cave

Battle for the Cowl 1 was pretty good, enjoyed it more than i thought. Looking forward to how this whole thing will turn out (especially with the Black Mask).


----------



## Castiel (Mar 14, 2009)

RED ROBIN WILL BE WRITTEN BY CHRIS YOST (teenage New X-Men, X-Force, co-creator of X-23, all Vulcan stories not by Brubaker)

how the fuck does this guy have the time?  he's writting like 5 marvel books right now.

but still this is fuck awesome.

Ramon Bachs (did art for Civil War: Frontline and Batman: City of Crime) will be doing interiors, with Manapul on covers




Judd Winick and Grant Morrison will be writting the same Batman, but Judd will focus on the character himself, whereas Grant will be creating new villains and adventures



What happens in Outsiders will still have effects on the Batbooks



Guillem March will be on art for Gotham City Sirens


*Spoiler*: _leaked artwork_ 











DC is keeping Batgirl a complete secret for now.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 14, 2009)

From the artwork, I imagine Sirens to be complete cheesecake.

As for Batgirl, no wonder. After the numerous backlashes. . .


----------



## Castiel (Mar 14, 2009)

New Batman Confidential was top notch, just very damn good, highly recommended


----------



## Castiel (Mar 14, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Outsiders #16 preview_ 















and Metamorpho is the utility belt


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 16, 2009)

Am I the only that *ISN'T* liking The Outsiders?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 16, 2009)

I was looking at that pic of Frank Quitely's art. It's... and acquired taste. Most times his characters are fugly, just like he's drawing Robin.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 16, 2009)

why don't you like Outsiders?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 16, 2009)

Outsiders is alright. . . but I'm iffy with the current cast.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 16, 2009)

well it's basically the original team but with Creeper (to replace Looker?) and Owlman (Batman standin)


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 17, 2009)

No batgirl Kilowog, no batgirl.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 17, 2009)

meh I'm sure Bruce has plans for Cass, I mean he did adopt her.  also what old ex secret agent british butler wouldn't love his own superhero team?

also Metamorpho is quickly becoming Plastic Man II, thus all your naysayings are invalid


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 17, 2009)

I wasn't being serious. 

But honestly, who the fuck is the creeper and why should I care about him? He's just irritating.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 17, 2009)

interview on the BftC: Gordon one-shot



> who the fuck is the creeper and why should I care about him?


you've never seen Batman: The Animated Series?


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 17, 2009)

I have seen BtAS! I dont remember creeper at all though.

Now that I think about it, I don't remember very much of the series at all


----------



## Reaper of the Mist (Mar 17, 2009)

I do, was all right.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2009)

for people who missed it:
Spiffy is Glory

Azrael preview


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> interview on the BftC: Gordon one-shot
> 
> you've never seen Batman: The Animated Series?



I've never seen the series. So who is Creeper?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]OjRCUhds0hU[/YOUTUBE]

also Owlman makes perfect sense.  Without Batman the team needs a detective, Winick's Outsiders had Nightwing, and right now all 3 of the Robins have bigger plans in store for them, so they needed to bring in someone else.  Plus in "Face the Face", Batman stated that Raymond was one of the best detectives he has ever met, but was displeased that he wasted his talents on his TV show.  So yeah makes sense to bring him in.


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> [YOUTUBE]OjRCUhds0hU[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> also Owlman makes perfect sense.  Without Batman the team needs a detective, Winick's Outsiders had Nightwing, and right now all 3 of the Robins have bigger plans in store for them, so they needed to bring in someone else.  Plus in "Face the Face", Batman stated that Raymond was one of the best detectives he has ever met, but was displeased that he wasted his talents on his TV show.  So yeah makes sense to bring him in.



He just one punched Batty without looking...  

Cool. :ho


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 18, 2009)

I wish Slam Bradley came back.

Him and Bullock would be hilarious.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 18, 2009)

Battle for the Cowl 01 was a fun read.


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Mar 18, 2009)

Yep, Azrael is Lane.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 18, 2009)

SPOILERS! 


and just in case anyone forgot: I called it. 
*Concluding:* "Realizing Emptiness"


----------



## Slice (Mar 18, 2009)

Any new bets on who will be the Batman after BftC? Now that the poll is kinda old.

I'm still with Nightwing accompanied by Damian as the new Robin (according to the spoiler pics Damian now should be a sure thing).


----------



## dwabn (Mar 18, 2009)

^^ yeah i pretty much agree, but im sad it looks like tim is gonna get boned w/ bein RR because he's my favorite tho.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2009)

New Outsiders was pretty good, Tomasi hasn't really gotten the pacing just right, and I'd have liked just a bit more info on the Insiders, but it was still good.

New Azrael was just great



> I wish Slam Bradley came back.


I think it's guaranteed that he'll be showing up in Gotham City Sirens, since 1). Catwoman is in it, 2). It's written by Dini


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 18, 2009)

dwabn said:


> ^^ yeah i pretty much agree, but im sad it looks like tim is gonna get boned w/ bein RR because he's my favorite tho.



Exactly. This sucks. Red robin is just a shallow way for DC to say, "HEY GUYS LOOK, DEVELOPEMENT!" When its really just a way to shove him to the side.

Tim drake is fine as robin. He's the first robin to actually be Batman's partner, not really his sidekick. Bruce doesnt need a liability like damien out with him.

I really hope that someday, if bruce wayne is ever allowed to permanently retire, i really really hope tim is the one who takes the cowl. I'd love to see a Tim, Bart, Conner trinity.

Totally loved his attitude in BfTC 1. Basically saying, "Sorry dick, but Batman is bigger than us, bigger than bruce." Which is what ive always thought.

Tim isnt doing it because he wants to be batman, he's doing it because he has to, and the guy who should be doing it wont.

loved this issue. 

/Gun batman looked so so badass as well!


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle for the Cowl - Commissioner Gordon #1 Preview_ 



















> Red robin is just a shallow way for DC to say, "HEY GUYS LOOK, DEVELOPEMENT!" When its really just a way to shove him to the side.


i felt the final arc of Robin did a good job, also Yost is writting the RR series which is awesome


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 18, 2009)

ok who was it who called the utility belt thing?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2009)

me


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> i felt the final arc of Robin did a good job, also Yost is writting the RR series which is awesome



Holy shit that preview looks awesome, good to know the GCPD acknowledge that they kind of suck haha, i cant wait to see gordon step up and "take the cowl" in his own way.

But as for RR, im hoping itll be a good book, im just a little sore about it. I like tim as robin, and i dont think hes ready to move on yet. That, and he'll be like a second, lesser nightwing...which is kind of odd.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2009)

For people curious about why the psycho killer from Morrison's run is now repentant



> For the sake of writing a character that can be both relatable, conflicted and somewhat "normal" in his civilian guise, I am assuming that in Batman #674, Lane was operating under the parameters of Hurts programming. He neither spoke nor acted as himself.
> 
> Which raises the question, of course, how much of that programming still remains inside him and how easy or hard would it be to access...?
> 
> -- fabian


----------



## Intus Legere (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm not sure I would accept Nightwing as a new Batman, but he is the closest call, I don't think there would be another option. Bringing some random guy out of the blue won't do, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Oracle: The Cure #1 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2009)

new interview with Morrison on B&R





> *CBR: There’s no denying the excitement of your fans, but how about you? Are you thrilled to be working with Frank Quitely yet again, this time on “Batman & Robin?”*
> 
> Grant Morrison: He’s just handed in the first issue and he’s started to work on the second. It’s amazing. It’s a very different take on Batman. It looks quite different. And quite interesting.
> 
> ...




this book is going to be AMAZING


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 19, 2009)

Oracle fanservice, I detect.


----------



## Slice (Mar 20, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Oracle fanservice, I detect.



Oracle fanservice, i approve 



*gets ready to pick up the issue


----------



## Castiel (Mar 20, 2009)

*BATTLE FOR THE COWL #2 pencils*


*Spoiler*: __ 














also



			
				from a Morrison interview said:
			
		

> *Are you working on anything else right now for Vertigo or DC?*
> 
> I’ve got the Bruce Wayne stuff that I obviously want to get on to. I have to deal with what happened to Bruce because that won’t necessarily be in the “Batman & Robin” book. Although there will be some elements of that. I’m going to do that


----------



## Castiel (Mar 20, 2009)

> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #1
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art and cover by Frank Quitely
> Variant cover by JG Jones
> ...








> *BATMAN #687
> Written by Judd Winick
> Art by Ed Benes & Rob Hunter
> Cover by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> ...



before anyone asks, no Daniel is not leaving, on his blog he said he's taking one month off after BftC before he goes full time again.






> *DETECTIVE COMICS #854
> Written by Greg Rucka
> Art by JH Williams and Cully Hamner
> Cover by JH Williams
> ...









> *RED ROBIN #1
> Written by Christopher Yost
> Art by Ramon Bachs
> Cover by Francis Manapul
> ...








> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #1
> Written by Paul Dini and Marc Andreyko
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs and Georges Jeanty & Karl Story
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen
> ...








> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #1
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art and cover by Guillem March
> Variant cover by JG Jones*
> ...








> *THE OUTSIDERS #19
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art and cover by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott
> Variant cover by JG Jones
> ...




that's a whole lot of JG Jones, possibly him trying to apoligize for FC?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 21, 2009)

Maybe. But I'm holding onto that grudge for a LONG time.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 21, 2009)

> But I'm holding onto that grudge for a LONG time.


would you have the will to live, let along work, if DiDio was boning your ex?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 23, 2009)

> *BOOSTER GOLD #21
> Written by Dan Jurgens and Matthew Sturges
> Art by Dan Jurgens & Norm Rapmund and Mike Norton
> Cover by Dan Jurgens & Norm Rapmund*
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Mar 23, 2009)

Oracle interview


----------



## Bender (Mar 23, 2009)

I read the Battle for the Cowl 01 

GOOD READ 

GOOD READ


----------



## neodragzero (Mar 24, 2009)

Judd Winick and more Greg Rucka Batwomen......


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 24, 2009)

Rucka is awesome fuck off and die


----------



## neodragzero (Mar 24, 2009)

I'm sorry, I do believe I typed down Greg Rucka's Batwoman. As in I dislike the character rather than hating on Greg Rucka in particular. I just don't find her interesting as unnecessary additions to Gotham go. It's one of the few things that I didn't like about 52...along with the new Question and the stupid idea of Batman having his "demons" mystically cut out.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 24, 2009)

I think we may have another All Star Superman brewing in Batman and Robin


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 24, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> I'm sorry, I do believe I typed down Greg Rucka's Batwoman. As in I dislike the character rather than hating on Greg Rucka in particular. I just don't find her interesting as unnecessary additions to Gotham go. It's one of the few things that I didn't like about 52...along with the new Question and the stupid idea of Batman having his "demons" mystically cut out.



Of course she's uninteresting, she hasn't done anything and we don't know anything about her, other than that she makes out with girls. 

Now, granted, I really did not warm up to her in 52 or anything else myself, it's just kind of like 'ugh do we really need another batperson?' But at the same time, Rucka hasn't gotten to answer that question yet, to prove why she's a good addition. And, well fuck, did you see the preview of Detective Comics? It was like 5 pages and that was all it took to convince me that Batwoman has something to offer that Cassandra and Barbara don't. So I'm definitely giving her a chance now.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 24, 2009)

Taleran said:


> I think we may have another All Star Superman brewing in Batman and Robin



Sure, very possible, I mean it is the same team. On the other hand they have to work within the constraints of continuity now and the team isn't the classic characters we know so... who knows? I'm sure it will be good though.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 24, 2009)

not nessisarily some of the other books seem to be more focused on that and this just seems to be side adventures book


but we will see


----------



## Bender (Mar 24, 2009)

Geez, so many nnew issues and I don't know which one to get


----------



## Castiel (Mar 24, 2009)

> I think we may have another All Star Superman brewing in Batman and Robin


Indeed

though Quitely isn't doing all of the art, just the first arc and the final arc (which is hinted to be the return of the Joker)


> not nessisarily some of the other books seem to be more focused on that and this just seems to be side adventures book


true.  that's why Winick was brought back.

Morrison is going to be doing his own thing for a year, while Winick has to be the one who gets forced to conform to crossovers and continuity.





neodragzero said:


> I'm sorry, I do believe I typed down Greg Rucka's Batwoman. As in I dislike the character rather than hating on Greg Rucka in particular. I just don't find her interesting as unnecessary additions to Gotham go. It's one of the few things that I didn't like about 52...along with the new Question and the stupid idea of Batman having his "demons" mystically cut out.



well of course you don't find her interesting

she doesn't have a personality or a backstory yet.  she hasn't been given one yet, Rucka kept getting delayed so she was in limbo.

no Rucka is going to put all of the plans he had 2 years ago into play, so I fully expect to gain an opinion on her now.


also the Demons thing was a kind of important RIP build up


----------



## neodragzero (Mar 24, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Of course she's uninteresting, she hasn't done anything and we don't know anything about her, other than that she makes out with girls.
> 
> Now, granted, I really did not warm up to her in 52 or anything else myself, it's just kind of like 'ugh do we really need another batperson?' But at the same time, Rucka hasn't gotten to answer that question yet, to prove why she's a good addition. And, well fuck, did you see the preview of Detective Comics? It was like 5 pages and that was all it took to convince me that Batwoman has something to offer that Cassandra and Barbara don't. So I'm definitely giving her a chance now.



I simply don't look forward to more Batwoman. I didn't say I hate her guts and the guy that created her.





> well of course you don't find her interesting
> 
> she doesn't have a personality or a backstory yet.  she hasn't been given one yet, Rucka kept getting delayed so she was in limbo.
> 
> ...



Read above. Where in Batman RIP was the demon thing even mentioned?


----------



## Bender (Mar 24, 2009)

I gotta say it's nice to see Mr. Freeze back in the comics again. Barely ever see the dude. Also is just me or do Catwoman Ivy and Harley remind you of YRP from Final Fantasy X-2? All I know is when I get the money I'm getting those comics.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 24, 2009)

I just realized something, we never got a follow up on that Booster Gold promo that had Michael and Batman rounding up the JLI during Final Crisis.  I'm betting that BG solicit might have Michael being foolish enough to try to mess with a crisis.



> I simply don't look forward to more Batwoman. I didn't say I hate her guts and the guy that created her.


I have a similar apathy since they let her linger for 3 years, but I'm willing to give it a chance since Rucka himself is doing the story and it's not being handed off to some other guy, also JH Williams' is just a superb artist



> Read above. Where in Batman RIP was the demon thing even mentioned?


cutting his demons out was the first major step in his year long training, which led up to the Thorgal.

also one of those finger eyes people appeared in Batman #675 "The Fiend with Nine Eyes" (RIP started with #676)



> I gotta say it's nice to see Mr. Freeze back in the comics again. Barely ever see the dude.


yeah, in the past couple years the only times he's shown up has been in Winick's run, the finale of Batgirl and in City of Crime.  really glad to see him around


----------



## Bender (Mar 24, 2009)

Gonna be real interesting to see how Gordon get's around without Batman to cover his back.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 25, 2009)

Commisioner Jim Gordon is a fucking 


also damn, the Calculator is hard core, Oracle better watch her back, he isn't playing this time


----------



## Castiel (Mar 25, 2009)

Tony Daniel accidently leaked who the new Batman is, he pulled his coment but some people were able to host the image


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 25, 2009)

WOW NO ONE SAW _THAT_ COMING

Also why did he even bother with his notes? The only thing different about that suit from the traditional one is that the gloves don't appear to be separate, and the little spikes can spring out or whatever.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 25, 2009)

that was his proposal for the new Batman suit.  The editors said no and went with Andy Kubert's design (the one on the Batman cover on the solicits)


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 25, 2009)

Ah. Which oddly still looks very different from the one on the Batman and Robin cover but whatever.

I'm not sure why DC feels the need to pretend that we don't already know who all the Batmen or whatever are.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 25, 2009)

> Which oddly still looks very different from the one on the Batman and Robin cover but whatever.


Quitely probably drew that last year or something


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 25, 2009)

Same look was used in that bit of interior art too. So the suits just aren't going to match up I don't think.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 25, 2009)

> Same look was used in that bit of interior art too. So the suits just aren't going to match up I don't think.


Quitely takes a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to draw.

I'll stand by my "did it last year" theory.



another theory: the first 3 issues of B&R (first arc done by Quitely) will be *before* costume change, but all the other arcs will be after.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm not saying you're wrong about Quitely, but the other artists could have gotten on board with what he was doing. I mean, really, I_ want_ to see what Quitely wants to do.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Mar 26, 2009)

Interestingly I didn't see this posted anywhere but here's a Battle of the Cowl "Batman: A New Era" interview here. Tells a few things and it pretty much hints a few things although tons have predicted it. Some new pages shown too. If it's been posted already and I missed it then sorry. 



After watching both interviews it's easy to put the clue together.


----------



## Bender (Mar 26, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Tony Daniel accidently leaked who the new Batman is, he pulled his coment but some people were able to host the image



If Dick Grayson is the new Batman he should look like this


----------



## Castiel (Mar 26, 2009)

that's quite  ^^^^^


also it seems the leak might be real, it started a bit of a shitstorm with DC, and Tony Daniel has pulled his blog for good.

Daniel also claimed that "that design was one of 3 I made for the 3 possible Batman contenders"


----------



## Castiel (Mar 26, 2009)

you know I'm just gonna say it:

I'm not dreading Winick's return to Batman


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 26, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> that's quite  ^^^^^
> 
> 
> also it seems the leak might be real, it started a bit of a shitstorm with DC, and Tony Daniel has pulled his blog for good.
> ...


A shitstorm over this? I don't get it, they basically gave away all the identities when they released BftC 1 and that Batman and Robin cover.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 26, 2009)

scapegoats make the world go round


----------



## Castiel (Mar 27, 2009)

Variant for BftC #2



for those who don't remember the variant for #1




#3 should be Jason


----------



## Castiel (Mar 27, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle for the Cowl - Man-Bat #1 Preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 27, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> If Dick Grayson is the new Batman he should look like this



I wish they use this design.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 27, 2009)

there was an internet contest where fans can submit their own designs, judges included the likes of Dustin Nguyen and JH Williams III.

here was the winning design




to view the "also rans"


----------



## Castiel (Mar 27, 2009)

rest of Winick interview


gotta say, this interview isn't doing anything to make me lose hope.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 27, 2009)

Cully Hammer sketches for the Question co-feature


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 27, 2009)

Yeah that design for Grayson as Batman is really good. Clever mix of Batman and Nightwing elements. That winning design... looks like it was inspired by the japanese Superbat hero. :|


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 28, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Cully Hammer sketches for the Question co-feature
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Well, at least they used Tot.

But what about the rest of Vic's supporting cast from Hub City, the city that's even worst than BOTH Gotham and Bludhaven?


----------



## mow (Mar 28, 2009)

@ Variants: secks

@ Project Rooftop: Daniel Heard & Michael Byrne were my favs. the rest had far too much Dick in them than bats, not to say they were bad tho. Great designs thro and thro


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 28, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Well, at least they used Tot.
> 
> But what about the rest of Vic's supporting cast from Hub City, the city that's even worst than BOTH Gotham and Bludhaven?



Question is kind of a Gotham character now.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 28, 2009)

well Bludhaven was nuked and the majority of the survivors went to Gotham, so I guess they're .. even?


----------



## p4poetic (Mar 28, 2009)

"Bruce IS Batman, anything else is hearsy".

Didn't really care for R.I.P. much.


----------



## typhoon72 (Mar 28, 2009)

I hate this one


----------



## Emperor Joker (Mar 28, 2009)

typhoon72 said:


> I hate this one



Who the hell is that and why does he look like he's wearing lipstick.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 28, 2009)

One of the entries for a contest to redesign the Batman costume for the 'new' batman.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 29, 2009)




----------



## standing (Mar 29, 2009)

Jason Todd


----------



## Bender (Mar 30, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I wish they use this design.



Yeah maybe I should send 'em this pic


----------



## Castiel (Mar 30, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Cully Hammer sketches for the Question co-feature
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __





Hammer talks about the designs.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm not too sure how I feel about Cully Hammer's redesign.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 30, 2009)

I hope she doesn't lose this number.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 30, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I'm not too sure how I feel about Cully Hammer's redesign.



Looks great when she's the Question, but those lips are kinda... big. The face just doesn't look like Montoya to me.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 31, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle for the Cowl #2 preview_


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Mar 31, 2009)

Stupid Jason Todd. 
Want to bet that the leg in the last panel is Tim's?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 1, 2009)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 1, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Looks great when she's the Question, but those lips are kinda... big. The face just doesn't look like Montoya to me.



Exactly what I meant. I guess I'll get used to it.



Jugglenaut said:


> Want to bet that the leg in the last panel is Tim's?


I think it's still Dick.


Is that the same Firefly from Gotham Central... I wonder.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 2, 2009)

I thought the Man-Bat one-shot was ... not good.  Good art, but not good.



> Is that the same Firefly from Gotham Central... I wonder.


that guy was some copycat who bought the suit, this is the original who was in Arkham





> *8. A Batman question – since there actually was a body, and that is such a rarity in superhero deaths – was there a real funeral for Batman?*
> 
> DD: No. And it’s not because they don’t think he’s dead, but rather because he specifically requested not to have one. We’ve alluded this to in several of our books as we’ve referred to Bruce’s Last Will and final wishes – everyone had come to agree that there would be no memorial, there would be no burial, and there would be no celebration of Batman’s life due to his death. Although, as we’re doing in the two-part Neil Gaiman/Andy Kubert story, that tale is just told there. It doesn’t play a role in the current continuity.
> 
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 2, 2009)

> *8. A Batman question – since there actually was a body, and that is such a rarity in superhero deaths – was there a real funeral for Batman?*
> 
> DD: No... Because Superman lost it.


I see what you did there Mr. Didio.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 2, 2009)




----------



## mow (Apr 3, 2009)

oh lawd.

EVERYONE RUN AWAY FROM THE THREAD CBG RAMPAGE INCOMING


----------



## qks (Apr 3, 2009)

lol misfits in the network?

win and win


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 3, 2009)

CBR said:
			
		

> I'm still pretty confident that it's not going to be Cassie. In one of the earlier convention talks this season, they referred to a "new" Batgirl, and that rules out Cassie, as far as I'm concerned.



I know. Cassandra Cain has her "Kasumi" identity in her JLE days. Would be nice to get back into it.

As for new Batgirls, either Spoiler, Misfit, or even Flamebird, with DC's Silver Age redux.



			
				CBR said:
			
		

> Also, *Didio called the sales on her mini-series "disappointing,"*



. . .

. . . . . .


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 3, 2009)

hahahaha

that picture is amazing.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 3, 2009)

so today in the life of Mike Marts, he indirectly confirms that:


The editors finally came up with the basic premise of Batgirl (Cass, Steph or Misfit?)
Hush will be in Streets of Gotham
The 2nd half of the Neil Gaiman story is delayed because Kubert is obsessing over *fucking word balloon placement*
BftC #2 safely made it to the printer and will be out on Wednesday
Quitely pencils for B&R #2 just came in.
BftC: Arkham Asylum art completed, waiting to be colored
Frazer Irving completely done with pencils, inks and colors for Azrael #2
Tomasi wants to tweak the Outsiders roster slightly
Marts is in talks with a "New York Times best-selling fantasy author"


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> so today in the life of Mike Marts, he indirectly confirms that:
> 
> 
> The 2nd half of the Neil Gaiman story is delayed because Kubert is obsessing over *fucking word balloon placement*



:rofl**


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 8, 2009)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 8, 2009)

I love J.H.W III's art. It's so... awesomely weird.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 8, 2009)

wait what


----------



## Castiel (Apr 8, 2009)

new BftC was pretty good imho.

Jason Todd has moved up a few steps on the awesome ladder


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 8, 2009)

Yeah... I'm confused too. If Tim isn't Red Robin, then who is? And does that mean we have... Robin, Red Robin, oh yeah and also _Robin_?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 8, 2009)

Rucka talks Question


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> new BftC was pretty good imho.
> 
> Jason Todd has moved up a few steps on the awesome ladder



He's always been awesome to me.


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 9, 2009)

Haven't read battle 2 yet.  Issue 1 kind of ruined Damien after I finally accepted him in the universe.  The characterization just seemed way off.  I am loathe to observe issue 2 is worth reading?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 9, 2009)

#2 is alright.

I'd like to see a throwdown between AzBats and JasonBats.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 9, 2009)

> The characterization just seemed way off.


he's NINE.  I mean seriously, sure he can talk a tough game and can kick ass, but Croc is a huge hulking monster that was seconds away from killing him.


----------



## qks (Apr 9, 2009)

jason todd is always been awsome


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> he's NINE.  I mean seriously, sure he can talk a tough game and can kick ass, but Croc is a huge hulking monster that was seconds away from killing him.



He's gotta be older than that... I mean for one thing what kind of 9 year old picks up chicks?


----------



## Bender (Apr 9, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> He's always been awesome to me.



Yet he's a prick


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 9, 2009)

an awesome prick, right?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 9, 2009)

> what kind of 9 year old picks up chicks?


he's Bruce Wayne's son


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> he's Bruce Wayne's son



And trained by semi mystical assassin monks.  Should totally be scared of a 9 foot tall slab of muscle.  Wasn't in the batmobile or anything.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 9, 2009)

it wasn't just a 9ft slab of muscle.  it was a fucking giant crocodile man that can swallow you whole


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> he's Bruce Wayne's son



I don't really think that's good enough sir.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 10, 2009)

yeah well Bruce Wayne is a 

there is that a good enough reason for you?


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 10, 2009)

9 year olds are still scared of cooties


----------



## Castiel (Apr 10, 2009)

in other news, the newest Batman Confidential was fucking awesome

go. read. now.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 10, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Yeah... I'm confused too. If Tim isn't Red Robin, then who is? And does that mean we have... Robin, Red Robin, oh yeah and also _Robin_?



alos note that _Robin_ is beating up Spoiler


----------



## Bender (Apr 10, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> 9 year olds are still scared of cooties



What you saying Bruce's son should be a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)?  

The boy is is the son of a G  

Remember what the hooker that got earfucked by Johnny Stiches said in the comic Gotham Underground? "This is Gotham. Nothing's off limits" 


LOL @ Oracle ejecting his girl 

Jason Todd in Battle for the Cowl= The crazier gun-toting version of Spawn 

Also DAAAAAAAAAAMN at Two-face bombing GCPD  

DAMN YOU TWO-Face 

Next issue Dick and Damian got their work cut out for them  

Two-face Penguin and Black Mask


----------



## Castiel (Apr 10, 2009)

I wonder who Black Mask is.  Daniel said that Roman was killed by Selina and is staying dead, but that the new Black Mask is not a new character...


----------



## Castiel (Apr 10, 2009)

*Detective Comics news*






*Spoiler*: _Inked Question pages_


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Apr 10, 2009)

#2 was pretty good I'd say. 

I guess next issue Dick finally takes down Todd and takes up the mantle. Surely it's him. After #2 there's really no other doubt in my mind. Jason was surprisingly done well this issue too. Idk what Bruce told him but I think it had to affect him somehow. It's great with him being a "villain" rather than being on their side. Goes to show you that with a good direction any character can look awesome. Lil D' I've got nothing to say about but he'll be back into action once he's healed. 

Now to the Red Robin and Robin thing, I think that Tim will end up being Red Robin. There can't be 2 Robins and surely Damian is going to be Robin judging the image. I think it's more metaphorical than anything. 


*Spoiler*: __ 




Apparently someone posted it on deviantart (Manapul) and apparently it's a night/day split thing between Tim Drake and Red Robin heavily hinting that he's Red Robin. I mean it'd make the most sense



Only problem I had was with the ooc-ness of some of the characters. Besides that it's good. I can overlook that. Can't wait for the next issue.


----------



## qks (Apr 10, 2009)

i just hope jason has a good role to play after dick invertibly takes him down


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 10, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> What you saying Bruce's son should be a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)?



I just figured he had to be twelve or so.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I wonder who Black Mask is.  Daniel said that Roman was killed by Selina and is staying dead, but that the new Black Mask is not a new character...



Someone less funny apparently


----------



## Castiel (Apr 10, 2009)

> I just figured he had to be twelve or so.


well we are never given an exact age

so he could be anythig between 9 to 12.

I guess going halfway you can go with 10.5?


----------



## Slice (Apr 10, 2009)

Always pictured Damian being at least 12 years old. And his reaction to Killer Croc? If you take his heritage into account then he should have been more prepared for stuff like this like any other person out there (regardless of age)


----------



## Bender (Apr 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I wonder who Black Mask is.  Daniel said that Roman was killed by Selina and is staying dead, but that the new Black Mask is not a new character...



I'm still trying to figure that out myself  

It has to be someone who greatly admired him and wanted to be him


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 11, 2009)

Is Jason the Black Mask or am I reading this all wrong?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 11, 2009)

Jason is the gun-toting Batman.

No one knows who the new Black Mask is.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 11, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> well we are never given an exact age
> 
> so he could be anythig between 9 to 12.
> 
> I guess going halfway you can go with 10.5?



11+ or gtfo



ghstwrld said:


> Is Jason the Black Mask or am I reading this all wrong?



How could you even make that mistake?


----------



## Bender (Apr 12, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Jason is the gun-toting Batman.
> 
> No one knows who the new Black Mask is.



Whoever the new Blackie is all I know is I like his style 

Plotting in the background while Penguin and Two-face go at it 

Also it's kickass seeing him standing on the rooftop while the fires are in the background. Like the Major from the Hellsing manga. Also we see The Riddler in the preview does that mean he's going back to being a criminal?  I'm not sure about you guys but I liked seeing him as a good guy. He's probaly the only well "Normal" Private Detective now that Dan Turpin's gone.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 13, 2009)

Battle for the Cowl is incredible. I love it.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2009)

> He's probaly the only well "Normal" Private Detective now that Dan Turpin's gone.


how dare you forget Slam FUCKING Bradley? 

also Turpin is still alive, though after FC I'd imagine he's retired


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 13, 2009)

What? He looked pretty dead to me.


----------



## Bender (Apr 13, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> how dare you forget Slam FUCKING Bradley?



Ohhhh shit I forgot about that cat!  Slam Bradley the dude who knocked up Catwoman  Right, what's so good about that dude what'd he do that's the exact same as when Dan confronted Darkseid? 



			
				Kilowog said:
			
		

> also Turpin is still alive, though after FC I'd imagine he's retired



How the fuck can he be alive!?  Batman shot him with a Radion Bullet then Black Racer came and took his ass man!


----------



## The Rook (Apr 13, 2009)

I believe the logic is that while Radion is poisonous to gods, it does not have the same affect on humans.  As the actual bullet wound was not fatal and Turpin is not affected by Radion, the hosts life was in no way threatened.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 13, 2009)

Morrison somewhat explained this.

Radion poisons the essence of the New Gods. Darkseid was already dying then. Batman shot Turpin in the shoulder so that Turpin wouldn't be fatally wounded and Darkseid left him.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 13, 2009)

Wait so why do we think he's alive?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2009)

> What? He looked pretty dead to me.


nope, he's clearly alive.



> How the fuck can he be alive!?  Batman shot him with a Radion Bullet then Black Racer came and took his ass man!


Bats only winged Darkseid with the bullet knowing that Radian doesn't affect humans.  also after Black Racer claims Darkseid, Turpin remains.



> Wait so why do we think he's alive?


cause he was still alive at the end of FC


----------



## Bender (Apr 13, 2009)

Where's the image of his sorry burning carcass then?


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 13, 2009)

Well apparently I missed him being alive.

Probably not the only thing in FC I missed.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2009)

there, Turpin is clearly alive


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2009)

Amazing set shop
Daniel Interview 

Amazing set shop
Yost on Red Robin


----------



## shit (Apr 13, 2009)

So I'm caught up with current Batman. Spoiler's alive??? How did this happen? Can anyone fill me in?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2009)

Chuck Dixon did an arc of Robin recently

turns out that Leslie lied to Bruce and smuggled her out of the country.  she spent a few years in Africa with Leslie helping refugees but decided to go back to Gotham as Spoiler.

I blame Retcon Punch, but I don't really care since Steph was awesome and she didn't deserve the way she died


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 13, 2009)

Daniels and Morrison have really different ideas of what kind of Batman dick would be. 

Also, learning that the red robin author worked on 'the Batman' and the new Iron Man series don't exactly make me feel optimistic.


----------



## shit (Apr 13, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Chuck Dixon did an arc of Robin recently
> 
> turns out that Leslie lied to Bruce and smuggled her out of the country.  she spent a few years in Africa with Leslie helping refugees but decided to go back to Gotham as Spoiler.
> 
> I blame Retcon Punch, but I don't really care since Steph was awesome and she didn't deserve the way she died



I like her character, but her death really made the War Games series and Black Mask's character. I'm torn.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2009)

> Also, learning that the red robin author worked on 'the Batman' and the new Iron Man series don't exactly make me feel optimistic.


Chris Yost is awesome 

he's the guy behind the current X-Force, and New X-Men. also the creator of X-23


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 13, 2009)

I dont really agree, Black Mask was made more by his awesomely horrifying sense of humor, and he did other nasty things that I don't think he needed that particular death to elevate him at all. And he's dead now anyway.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 13, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Chris Yost is awesome
> 
> he's the guy behind the current X-Force, and New X-Men. also the creator of X-23



Alright then. I was going to give him a chance either way cus I like Tim Drake, I just saw those and thought 'god I hope he doesn't try the kids appeal approach those shows have'.


----------



## shit (Apr 13, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> I dont really agree, Black Mask was made more by his awesomely horrifying sense of humor, and he did other nasty things that I don't think he needed that particular death to elevate him at all. And he's dead now anyway.



He's alive in the first issue of the Battle for the Cowl series. He's taken every Arkham inmate as his henchman too.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 13, 2009)

Juggalo said:


> He's alive in the first issue of the Battle for the Cowl series. He's taken every Arkham inmate as his henchman too.



Was stated somewhere that it's a new (less awesome) person under the proverbial mask.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2009)

> Black Mask was made more by his awesomely horrifying sense of humor, and he did other nasty things that I don't think he needed that particular death to elevate him at all.


indeed.  he was "made" the moment Brubaker had him show up in Catwoman as a psycho



> Alright then. I was going to give him a chance either way cus I like Tim Drake, I just saw those and thought 'god I hope he doesn't try the kids appeal approach those shows have'.


he's involved with a whole shitload of animated adaptations.  he was behind the FF series and the past few X-Men series as well.





> He's alive in the first issue of the Battle for the Cowl series. He's taken every Arkham inmate as his henchman too.


Catwoman shot him in the head.  he's dead.

the guy in BftC is a copycat.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Oracle: The Cure #2 preview_


----------



## shit (Apr 13, 2009)

interesting

shit moves fast in batman


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 13, 2009)

Didnt the recent FF series suck too? :| :| :|

But hey, he does X-force, its ok.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 14, 2009)




----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 14, 2009)

Whose dead hand?


----------



## Bender (Apr 14, 2009)

^

Probaly Black Mask's


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Apr 15, 2009)

Some more images


*Spoiler*: __ 







*Spoiler*: __ 







*Spoiler*: __ 







*Spoiler*: __ 








That's all the proof we need to know that Tim's Red Robin.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 15, 2009)

actually does not really look like tim to me.


----------



## The Rook (Apr 15, 2009)

Tim is really big on using the bo staff.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 15, 2009)

heh i didnt even notice the staff.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 15, 2009)

ok so it is tim, the color really does make all the difference now


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 15, 2009)

Eh. . . art's not really jivin' with me.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 15, 2009)




----------



## Castiel (Apr 15, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Outsiders #17 preview_ 


















gotta say I'm liking the new Outsiders


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 15, 2009)

Now I am too. "Timing is everything"


----------



## Castiel (Apr 15, 2009)

you better, cause this is the only place you can see Black Lightning, aside from a small handful of appearances he's slated to make in Robinson's Superman Mon-El.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 15, 2009)

Yeah. That and unread issues of JLA.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 15, 2009)

he's off the JLA.  which is kinda odd since the lineup of McDuffie's JLA is made up of mostly black people, led by Black Canary. but with no Black Lightning


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 15, 2009)

I was talking about the back issues when I said unread. I just "legally obtained" JLA and I plan on reading it whenever I get a chance.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 15, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Azrael: Death's Dark Knight #2 preview_ 














I'm just loving this series, well written, great main character and Irving's art is just fanfuckingtastic, really best he's done in a while.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> ok so it is tim, the color really does make all the difference now



color where?


----------



## Bender (Apr 15, 2009)

All that biblical shit are you trying to turn Azazel into the next Spectre Morrison


----------



## Castiel (Apr 16, 2009)

> color where?


on the RR2 cover.  without color it just looked like Robin and RR were having a team up, with color you can see a night and day aspect and tell they're both Tim 





> All that biblical shit are you trying to turn Azazel into the next Spectre Morrison


*AzRAel*.

also Azrael has ALWAYS been religiously motivated


----------



## Castiel (Apr 16, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #853 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 16, 2009)

word balloon placement.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 16, 2009)

> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #2
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art and cover by Frank Quitely
> Variant cover by Andy Kubert*
> ...









> *BATMAN #688
> Written by Judd Winick
> Art by Mark Bagley & Art Thibert
> Cover by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea*
> ...









> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #2
> Written by Paul Dini; co-feature written by Marc Andreyko
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs; co-feature art by Georges Jeanty & Karl Story
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen*
> ...








> *DETECTIVE COMICS #855
> Written by Greg Rucka
> Art by JH Williams III; co-feature art by Cully Hamner
> Cover by JH Williams III
> ...









> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #2
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art and cover by Guillem March*
> 
> ...








> *RED ROBIN #2
> Written by Christopher Yost
> Art by Ramon Bachs & Art Thibert
> Cover by Francis Manapul*
> ...








> *THE OUTSIDERS #20
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art and cover by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott
> 
> ...









> *
> BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL #31
> Written by Peter Milligan
> Art by Andy Clarke
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 16, 2009)

How the heck did Cain get the spear again.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 16, 2009)

So much win on this page. . .


----------



## Bender (Apr 16, 2009)

Goddamn I feel so heavily hungover by all this win pek pek


----------



## Castiel (Apr 16, 2009)

damn, the first arc of Tomasi's Outsiders has Vandal Savage, Ra's Al Ghul *AND* Deathstroke? 


also an interview with the artist of Mark Waid's Batman one-shot
N3-2 and Magna Carta!!!!


----------



## Castiel (Apr 17, 2009)

Sasuke only needs one seal to use the Katon.

Bagley talks about Batman


----------



## Yoshi (Apr 17, 2009)

Red Robin = PURE WIN.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 17, 2009)

The only bad thing is Winnick writing Batman.

I've long lost faith in him.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 17, 2009)

While I *DISPISED* his Green Arrow run, I personally just loved Under The Hood a ton and found As The Crow Flies to be _ok_


----------



## Z (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm looking forward to Red Robin, Streets of Gotham, and Batman and Robin. 
They sound promising.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 18, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle For The Cowl - Arkham Asylum #1 preview_ 















this looks awesome


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 18, 2009)

Poison Ivy's face is HORSE-LONG.


----------



## shit (Apr 18, 2009)

Arkham stories are always the best.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 18, 2009)

yes they are

"A Serious House on Serious Earth" by Grant Morrison and "Living Hell" by Dan Slott are both EXCELLENT stories.


----------



## tari101190 (Apr 18, 2009)

so if...

Dick is Batman
Damian is Robin
Tim is Red Robin

What will happen to Jason? Perahps he'll be another Nightwing? Atleast a temporary one. that would be cool for a short while atleast (before killing him maybe?). He would be like a dark shadow of Dick's former self. Like a "conclusion" to the Nightwing era. Putting Nightwing to rest literally and figuratively to take the next step up as Batman.


----------



## Gambitz (Apr 18, 2009)

I'll just wait till they release these in TPB's.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 19, 2009)

B&R 2 solicit said:
			
		

> Meanwhile, the mysterious Sasha escapes from Professor Pyg and vows vengeance on the people who killed her father.



for those who don't know, Professor Pyg is the guy who was hung on the inverted cross in Batman #666, he kidnaps people and turns them into those fucked up doll people Damian was fighting in that issue.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 22, 2009)

So where does the Arkham story continue? It says BftC, but... obviously that won't continue the actual story started in the special.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 22, 2009)

What Happened to the Caped Crusader, Part 2!

I. . . haven't felt like this since reading Superman: Red Son. But I get Gaiman's message.

And no, it's not Death of the Endless (which did disappointed me, I admit).


----------



## Rod (Apr 22, 2009)

I just find interesting how different interpretations we have to portray Bruce from the authors, one time he is catholic, atheist, pentacostal, agnostic, catholic again and whatnot...


----------



## Castiel (Apr 23, 2009)

*Detective Comics #853* - I thought this was spectacular, definitely exceeded my expectations.  At first I was thrown off by the silver agy type ending.  story is great, works in the context of "Omega Sanction" or just as the true "Final Batman Story" that really is anything but final.

*Outsiders #17* - Good issue, arc is looking up.  Owlman is growing on me, and Black Lightning got to blow up fucking robots.   also MOTHERFUCKING DEATHSTROKE shows up. 

*Batman: Battle For The Cowl - Arkham Asylum #1* - Best of the one-shots so far.  *Great *portrayal of Dr. Arkham as a man and as a doctor.  I like the acknowledgement of Morrison's Arkham OGN and the new characters Hine brought in are unique and interesting.  I look forward to this "New Arkham".

*Azrael: Death's Dark Knight #2* - Awesome.  Irving is on the top of his fucking game in this and Lane continues to be an awesome character.  Also liked how they explained who the previous Azrael was (from BatO).  Also motherfucking flaming swordfights.  Dick has his work cut out for him.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 23, 2009)

LINK

Gaiman interview


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 23, 2009)

Azrael... ugh, his ridiculous nightwing style quips nearly completely ruined the comic for me. It was so unbelievably out of place.

I really enjoyed Arkham and Detective Comics though, those were great.


----------



## Slice (Apr 23, 2009)

Caped crusader part 2 was all kinds of awesome!

If they would never bring Bruce back i would still be satisfied by that one.

But they will... They always come back...


----------



## shit (Apr 23, 2009)

Damn it, Arkham Asylum needs an ongoing.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 23, 2009)

peak at Manhunter art




and yes that is the same guy who does Buffy, and the the FoE Deathstroke one-shot


----------



## Lal Mirch (Apr 24, 2009)

^ Nice. 

I'm really impressed with The Outsiders so far. Looks like it's only going to get better with the arrival of Deathstroke. 

Arkham was just awesome.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 25, 2009)

Arkham Asylum blew my mind out of the freaking water.


----------



## Bender (Apr 25, 2009)

I got Azrael comic 

I wonder who'll win between him and Dick 





Azrael probaly


----------



## Castiel (Apr 25, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I. . . haven't felt like this since reading Superman: Red Son. But I get Gaiman's message.



**


----------



## Slice (Apr 26, 2009)

I did not have the "What the hell, i did not see that coming!" reaction i had after reading Red Son, but it still was a great read.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 27, 2009)

Team Pic


----------



## Castiel (Apr 27, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle for the Cowl: The Underground #1 Preview_


----------



## Bender (Apr 27, 2009)

YAY! 

Detective Story

And a former loser A.K.A. The Riddler is on the prowl


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 27, 2009)

Riddler, eh?

YES.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 28, 2009)

looks like Batman's gonna be a Black Lantern...


----------



## hcheng02 (Apr 28, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> looks like Batman's gonna be a Black Lantern...



Oh lord...


----------



## Bender (Apr 29, 2009)

Btw you guys anyone but me think that The Riddler is going to be the new male version of The Question?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 29, 2009)

Doubtful. Renee has enough win for all genders.


----------



## mow (Apr 29, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Doubtful. Renee has enough win for *all* genders.



aint that the truth


----------



## Bender (Apr 29, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Doubtful. Renee has enough win for all genders.



She isn't the great conspiracy theorist that The old Question was at least Riddler has that same aura and his "Riddle me this" kind of reminds me of him.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 29, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Btw you guys anyone but me think that The Riddler is going to be the new male version of The Question?



Needs to be philosophical first.


----------



## Bender (Apr 29, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Needs to be philosophical first.



Yeah, that's the only thing that he needs to be in the same ranking of win as the old Question was.  Also he needs to lose that big inflated ego of his and he's set. Renee seems too much like an angry lesbo to me.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 29, 2009)

long story short, Underground was prequel to Gotham City Sirens.


----------



## Bender (Apr 29, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> long story short, Underground was prequel to Gotham City Sirens.



Quite true 


And quite boring too


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 29, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Quite true
> 
> 
> And quite boring too



It wasn't boring man... It just wasn't very interesting.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 30, 2009)

I thought it was _ok_


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 30, 2009)

Mediocre sounds too harsh but... it really just didn't do much except _barely_ set up sirens.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Apr 30, 2009)

"Whatever happened to the Caped Crusader" was very, very good.


----------



## Castiel (May 1, 2009)

BftC #3 variant


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 1, 2009)

Of bloody course.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 1, 2009)

Of all three variants, I prefer Nightwing.


----------



## Castiel (May 1, 2009)

Red Robin #3 cover



I like it


----------



## Petes12 (May 1, 2009)

I like it too. Clever use of the shapes. I wonder who the girl is.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 1, 2009)

If it isn't Stephanie. . .

Come on. How can Red Robin be other than Tim Drake at this point?


----------



## Petes12 (May 1, 2009)

It is. The girl is probably Stephanie, but it could be Cassandra too...

who am I kidding, Cassandra Cain in a Batman book? Yeah right.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 1, 2009)

Especially since Cassandra is supposedly not part of the family in the upcoming months.


----------



## Petes12 (May 1, 2009)

It's like Beechen ruined her, failed to redeem her (and himself) and now DC is just forgetting she exists.

WTB Geoff Johns retcon.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 1, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> It's like Beechen ruined her, failed to redeem her (and himself) and now DC is just forgetting she exists.
> 
> WTB Geoff Johns retcon.



None of the editors, really care about her, sadly. Thinking about it now, that's probably the impression I got from DiDio at the con.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 1, 2009)

since I selected Jason Todd way back when, and he was the first to put on the bat suit after Bruce's death, did I win the poll? :ho


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 2, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> BftC #3 variant



IZ THAT A MUTHAFUCKIN PUNISHER SHIRT?!?!?



lol


----------



## Castiel (May 2, 2009)

Johns tried his best to retcon Cass' insanity, but the editors paired him with Beechen.

anyways Steph is in the running for the next Batgirl, plus it was stated she was just guesting in RR

methinks Cass will be in RR, possibly.  I mean it was built up that aside from Oracle, Cass was the closest to Tim in the batfamily.  also the entire RR book seems to be a major global adventure which is sure to include Ra's and the League of Assassins and Cass fits right in with that type of setting.

hell she might even take up her JLE identity again[/wishfulthinking]


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 2, 2009)

I'd prefer if Misfit became Batgirl over Steph. She's got a whol lotta dark vengance... hsssst.


----------



## Castiel (May 2, 2009)

Misfit actually has "powers" so logistically that means she gets kicked out of the Batfamily.  Cass is the closes to "real powers" they're allowed to get


----------



## Castiel (May 3, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle for the Cowl - Network #1 Preview_


----------



## shit (May 3, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> since I selected Jason Todd way back when, and he was the first to put on the bat suit after Bruce's death, did I win the poll? :ho





> View Poll Results: Who should be the next Batman?





> Who should be the next Batman





> should be





> should



No, you do not win. 

I picked Damien, and he had on his own little batsuit too before Todd revealed himself, so I win anyway.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 3, 2009)

Ha ha.

Lil' BatBOY.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2009)

So The Network is the same Birds of Prey MO... plus dudes.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 3, 2009)

So is anybody else kind of bummed at this whole "Jason is straight up bad guy" thing they have going here? It seems kind of odd. Yea jason isnt a nice guy, but i cant see him shooting a kid just to make his escape easier, it just seems off.

As others have speculated, i hope jason todd remains as an anti-hero punisheresque character, instead of just another bat villain.



Comic Book Guy said:


> None of the editors, really care about her, sadly. Thinking about it now, that's probably the impression I got from DiDio at the con.



Agreed. And it sucks. I barely even read of her outside or Robin, detective, and batman...but i always liked her pre-OYL. Tim and Cass in bludhaven was one of my favorite arcs of that book.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> So is anybody else kind of bummed at this whole "Jason is straight up bad guy" thing they have going here? It seems kind of odd. Yea jason isnt a nice guy, but i cant see him shooting a kid just to make his escape easier, it just seems off.
> 
> As others have speculated, i hope jason todd remains as an anti-hero punisheresque character, instead of just another bat villain.



This.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 3, 2009)

ha, good to know you agree.

But seriously, somebody needs to break off and be like "Are you guys idiots? Just kill the motherfuckers!" With the atrocities people like the joker have commited, im surprised it hasnt happened sooner. 

Also, i like how if jason were to do this, it wouldnt be out of revenge or anything, more like out of a sense that, "this is just what we should be doing, old school doesnt work anymore." That its just a necessary step in the evolution of a hero. 

Yea there have been a few killer vigilantes in the past, but none of them were nearly as well trained as jason is, and im pretty sure it was a revenge kick as well.

Finally, it'd be cool to see Dick and Tim's foundation be shaken a little. Like if after Bftc when jason has escaped to who knows where, they notice that crime has gone down ALOT after jason's stint as batman, and how effective lethal force can be. Since batman is already scary enough, a batman packing heat? dear god.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2009)

> it'd be cool to see Dick and Tim's foundation be shaken a little. Like if after Bftc when jason has escaped to who knows where, they notice that crime has gone down ALOT after jason's stint as batman


Yeah, that would be badass, because Jason is badass.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 3, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Yeah, that would be badass, because Jason is badass.



Jason is quite badass, although Tim is more badass (even if he's in a very unbadass state atm.  )

It seems like a lot of people dislike jason though, probably jealous.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 3, 2009)

Definitely jealousy. :ho

Tim is awesome though, I liked his series more than Batman at times.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 3, 2009)

I remember Ennis' Punisher.

"So the vigilante is STILL going around killing people? And we HAVEN'T caught him YET?! Does anyone have any goods news for me?!"

"Uh. . . crime's rate has gone down again."


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 3, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Definitely jealousy. :ho
> 
> Tim is awesome though, I liked his series more than Batman at times.



Tim is actually my favorite DC character, or at least, he's tied with like 3 or 4 others who rotate in and out. 

Red Robin better be awesome, or im going to be pissed that they canceled robin. It had a great blend of batman and old-school spiderman that i thought was really cool.



Comic Book Guy said:


> I remember Ennis' Punisher.
> 
> "So the vigilante is STILL going around killing people? And we HAVEN'T caught him YET?! Does anyone have any goods news for me?!"
> 
> "Uh. . . crime's rate has gone down again."



Ha ive just started on Punisher MAX, so far its awesome.

But i wouldnt want jason to end up as a punisher clone, all withdrawn and moody and dark and what not. I think jason could go around killing people and still act like its just another day on the job. Punisher does what he does because of a sense of vengeance, id like jason to do it because of a sense of justice and necessity.


----------



## mow (May 4, 2009)

the thing i like most about jason

*ape-shit insane but calculated, intelligent and unbelievably well trained
* Kills because he thinks it's the right way to approach matters, and it gives him a kick
* a totally twisted view of how matters between him and bruce occurred (i loved his monologues, best part of BfTC #2)
* just Waker pointed, he does it because he views it as justice. but really, he's doing it also because he wants to prove he's better than his mentor. very demntated ethical values. 

all the above do not make him your run of the mill anti-hero. Where Frank does what is necessary (but without joy) and Wolverine does what he does best (ie sucking massive goat balls), but a very vibrant character that they can do so much with. I really hope he remains a thorn in the new Batman's, till Bruce comes back and deals with him personally.


----------



## Taleran (May 4, 2009)

I was reading the Morrison run leading up to RIP and my god is there a ton to notice


this was only the first thing


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 4, 2009)

mow said:


> the thing i like most about jason
> 
> *ape-shit insane but calculated, intelligent and unbelievably well trained
> * Kills because he thinks it's the right way to approach matters, and it gives him a kick
> ...



And then, Jason levels with bruce telling him the only way he'll stop is if batman kills him, hopefully he can be offering bruce a crowbar during this talk, for added dramatic effect.


----------



## mow (May 4, 2009)

yoooooohooooo, CBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, got a lil somethin' for ya



Batgirl #1


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 4, 2009)

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrk Veeeeeeeeeeeeengaaaaaaaaaaaancee.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 4, 2009)

mow said:


> yoooooohooooo, CBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, got a lil somethin' for ya
> 
> 
> 
> Batgirl #1



I could either be one of the happiest guys on Earth come August. . .

or definitely the most angriest, the most pissed off one.


----------



## Slice (May 4, 2009)

Make sure to take some pictures of either your 24 hour party or the wave of destruction caused 

(cover looks nice, now _please_ make the right person Batgirl)


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 4, 2009)

I bet it's destruction. Dan Didio hates CBG.


----------



## mow (May 4, 2009)

Honestly, it's like Didio is one of the CB members, and the only reason he doesnt report the site is the fact it would cut on his make CBR miserable time


----------



## Castiel (May 4, 2009)

well it's obviously not Cass

so the question is:

Steph or Charlie


----------



## ghstwrld (May 4, 2009)

*yawn*

That cover and costume are so dour and un-fun.


----------



## Bender (May 4, 2009)

Seriously, after seeing his win I want Jason Todd to be the new Batman


----------



## neodragzero (May 5, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I could either be one of the happiest guys on Earth come August. . .
> 
> or definitely the most angriest, the most pissed off one.



More than likely the latter...

It better be Cass.


----------



## RAGING BONER (May 5, 2009)

i bet the new Bat girl is spoiler.


so..who'd they pick as the new batman? and why?


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

Dick Grayson, because Morrison said so.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 5, 2009)

I wouldn't mind Stephanie as Batgirl. I also like her character.

While Cassandra Cain was Batgirl, she can grow outside of it. In fact, Gabrych was to explore that before fucking DIDIOT told him the series was cancelled. And then FUCKING BEECHEN ruined the character.

FUCKING IDIOTS. FUCKTARDS. FUCKITTY-FUCK-FUCK IDIOTS.


----------



## lucky (May 5, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Dick Grayson, because Morrison said so.



i kinda figured that was going to happen... but when was this confirmed?  did i miss something?


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

lucky said:


> i kinda figured that was going to happen... but when was this confirmed?  did i miss something?



No official confirmation, but...

A) It was really really really obvious especially after BftC 1 came out

B) threads who praise him naïvely

edit: but even before that stuff, once we had the picture by Quitely of the new Batman (who is clearly not Tim Drake) and the new Robin (who is clearly not Tim Drake), and no new Nightwing title, but a new 'Red Robin' title, it seems pretty obvious what's going on. Battle for the Cowl 1 just confirms it as it saves Dick's monologue for the last issue, and the plot pushes him and Damian together.


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

Am I looking into things too much if I say that the open mask and white-ish belt means that that batgirl is spoiler?


----------



## Slice (May 5, 2009)

I prefer Cass as Batgirl, but i could live with spoiler.

As long as they keep Cass around beeing awesome


----------



## Ukoku (May 5, 2009)

Slice said:


> As long as they keep Cass around beeing awesome



I agree whole-heartedly


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 5, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Am I looking into things too much if I say that the open mask and white-ish belt means that that batgirl is spoiler?



I wouldn't say too much. I say just right.

Watch DC screw everyone over and say its Bette Kane.


----------



## RAGING BONER (May 5, 2009)

bah, this won't hold.

i already know that in a year or so some asshole is gonna find Bruce Wayne's cave paintings, he informs someone who informs someone *insert Bat-to-the-Past* time travel arc and boom! we have Bruce wayne back. 

Followed ofcourse by a shit load of "Batmans return/impact on Gotham obligatory arcs" as well as tension between the new batman and the real batman etc.


lemme know how it turns out.


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

You're incredibly dumb. Of course it won't hold, they even told everyone at the end of FC that Batman was still alive. But Morrison will use this as a chance to do one of his crazy-probablyawesome ideas with Grayson as Batman. It gives him a chance to say 'this is how Batman could be with someone else wearing the mask' basically. The fact that it's temporary is obvious, doesn't mean we won't enjoy the stories that come out of it.

And tension between Bruce and Dick because it turns out Bruce is alive? Yeah, back to the you being a retard.


----------



## mow (May 5, 2009)

well, as implied by his name, there is obviously no blood running to the other head


----------



## RAGING BONER (May 5, 2009)

its true what they say : comic book nerds are so hurtful


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

You need thick skin on the internet, especially if you are prone to saying dumb things


----------



## mow (May 5, 2009)

Boner, all you need is to read good comics to fit in with all the rest of us and for us to accept you. I really recommend checking out Countdown to Final Crisis.  it's a great series.


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

And he thinks_ I'm_ mean.


----------



## lucky (May 5, 2009)

no we're not.  you're just bleepin' retarded for not understanding the subtle dynamics of batz/nightz relationship or the pattern of the writers' style that you can obviously figure out if you were up-to-date with all their interviews and appearances at comic-cons.  


effin' newb.



*EDIT*

thick skin in life can get people laid more often.  and be like the weather... immune to criticism


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

You don't need to read comics to know that Dick Grayson would be happy to hear Bruce Wayne is alive. If all you'd ever seen of Batman was the Batman and Robin movie, you'd know that.


----------



## RAGING BONER (May 5, 2009)

well, since i want nothing more in life than to be accepted by you gaiz i will get to work right away on the last 15 years of Batman comics that ive missed!


----------



## Castiel (May 5, 2009)

nuBat is Dick and Robin will be Damian because Morrison said "Batman will be lighthearted, and Robin will be a hardass".  Morrison's run pretty much established that if Bruce never met Dick, he'd have likely killed him within 2 years of being Batman


also yeah, Morrison himself pretty much said thta Bruce is back in about a year, this is all part of a big story arc for Morrison, we're entering the middle chapter where the hero is cast into hell and has to pull himself out.


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

No one expects that. I've read maybe 3 years worth of Batman titles, max. But if you haven't read anything and want to read something about Bruce as Batman, I'm sure someone could give you some recommendations.


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Morrison's run pretty much established that if Bruce never met Dick, he'd have likely killed him within 2 years of being Batman



wait what? who kills who? I don't remember this at all!


----------



## RAGING BONER (May 5, 2009)

So while Dicky is chillin in the Bat mansion getting served Martini's by Alfred, Bruce is stuck in 10000000 BC fighting Dinosaurs n shit?


edit: what, kill Dick Grayson? what for?


----------



## Castiel (May 5, 2009)

remember in the beginning of RIP, Jezebel remarked that his cave was like a children's clubhouse?  That cause *it is* a child's clubhouse.  Bruce didnt' start collecting trophies till Dick came along, that's when things became "fun" and not so bone crushingly depressing. 

If Bruce never had a Robin, he would have just blown his brains out at some point.

Morrison confirmed this in an interview


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

Everyone thinks Batman's dead, they don't know he's stuck in the past.

edit: oh kill himself, gotcha kilowog


----------



## lucky (May 5, 2009)

incensed erection: better get started, biotch.  entrance to our l33t club is for limited time only.


on a side note, you could just google top batman stories.



~RAGING BONER~ said:


> So while Dicky is chillin in the Bat mansion getting served Martini's by Alfred, Bruce is stuck in 10000000 BC fighting Dinosaurs n shit?



tha'ts right.  but he's not alone.  he's with Anthro, the first Cro-Magnon Boy!  (seriously.)


----------



## Castiel (May 5, 2009)

> i already know that in a year or so some asshole is gonna find Bruce Wayne's cave paintings, he informs someone who informs someone *insert Bat-to-the-Past* time travel arc and boom! we have Bruce wayne back.


you just described *JLA: The Obsidian Age*, where hte JLA gets trapped in the past, and Nightwing becomes the leader of the Justice League


----------



## mow (May 5, 2009)

I just cant wait for the first indication of batman being alive. Will they do the omega sanction story before his revival in the past? or ororo? so much potential for Morrsion to muck around with. it's gonna be grand



Othrys12 said:


> And he thinks_ I'm_ mean.



if i had to suffer through it, so shall everyone .


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

I haven't read it


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 5, 2009)

mow said:


> Boner, all you need is to read good comics to fit in with all the rest of us and for us to accept you. I really recommend checking out Countdown to Final Crisis.  it's a great series.





I liked Countdown...  until issue 12.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 5, 2009)

I'm surprised you stuck around for that long.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 5, 2009)

I read the whole thing all at once and skipped the parts of characters that I didn't like... The Olsenbug


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 5, 2009)

I HATED, HATED that storyline.


----------



## Bender (May 5, 2009)

Am I the only one who wants Jason Todd to be the new Batman?


----------



## D1am0nds (May 5, 2009)

i love batman


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 5, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I HATED, HATED that storyline.



I still haven't read it. I like every story but that... until issue 12. 


Blaze of Glory said:


> Am I the only one who wants Jason Todd to be the new Batman?



No, but DC is gay and their making Dick the new Batman.


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

Just read Punisher


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 5, 2009)

No!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 5, 2009)

Ukoku said:


> I agree whole-heartedly



What he said.


----------



## Castiel (May 5, 2009)

I like how the entire Jimmy Olsen story arc from Countdown is being *completely* ignored in every single possible way.  Which is good, cause I love Robinson's Jimmy Olsen, he actually comes off as cool.


----------



## Bender (May 5, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Just read Punisher



There's nothing Punisher about Jason Todd


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (May 5, 2009)

If anyone deserves to be the new Batman it's none other than Dick Grayson. He fills the role and in his life he's lived up to holding the cowl. Now Bruce? He invented Batman, he is everything Batman is and he classifies exactly what a great Batman is. You can't surpass the original in what he does but that doesn't mean you can't do it different and then have great results. Dick won't be the same Batman Bruce was. Bruce could do it all. Bruce is out all night protecting Gotham against petty enemies, getting 3 hours of sleep, still being the main man Bruce Playboy Wayne, dealing with his own personal struggles and all in all dealing with the rest of the Bat Family and it's more notorious opponents. That's Bruce Wayne. Hell, that's Batman as a whole. 

Dick though. He can't be that man. No matter how hard he tries he can't be that Batman. I'm sure we'll see in his initial plotlines we'll see him try to be like Bruce but won't succeed and then we'll see him morph Batman into what his version of Batman is. He won't be like Bruce but I do expect him to get the job done. Dick's a great crimefighters. Sure he doesn't get things done as fast as Bruce but he gets them done. If there's one thing I'm looking forward in this it's exactly how Dick will approach being Batman compared to Bruce. I don't know how he'll do it but I'm sure it'll work somehow. Good luck to him. 

Bruce's return? I don't know what'll happen but yeah the tension will be ridiculous. After being Batman for a while and then going back to Nightwing. I don't know what he'll do but he can't be the same Nightwing he was if he goes back to Nightwing. Notice I say if because I don't see him being like he used to be. He'll be to used to being the Bat to go back to his usual stuff. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the only people who wants him to extend his run as Batman and not because of how Dick is and his story but also to see what Bruce will do. I'd love that but meh I don't know. 

I just don't know what's going to happen to his character once Bruce returns. If Bruce returns and takes over the cowl things will be weird. Tim becoming Red Robin will essentially put him as Batman's "Nightwing" persay while Damian will continue being Robin. Once Bruce returns he can't have "2 Nightwing-like" figures helping him out. I just don't know what'll happen. 

What do you guy's think?

-------
Random but if Stephanie becomes Batgirl I'd love it. Batgirl/Red Robin will mirror Nightwing/Batgirl but either way I like her character so if it's her I'd like it.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 5, 2009)

A female needs to man *the* cowl one of these days.


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

Boner: No, they don't have the balls. You take Bruce out of the cowl permanently and people will stop reading, because Bruce IS batman. A lot of heroes with 'legacies' like Robin, you'll go to wikipedia and see Robin 1, 2, 3 and even 4 despite stephanie being Robin for all of 3 issues or whatever. You're not ever going to see that with Batman or Superman. 

Kyuubi: I don't really see a problem with having both Nightwing and Red Robin.

Ghstwrld: unlike Question or Robin, Batman's gender is sorta implicit in the name and then there's a Batwoman and Batgirl, so... I don't think that could ever work. But now I'm laughing because I'm imagining people's reaction to Batman being a woman under the cowl and working alongside the lesbian Batwoman.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 5, 2009)

It's entirely possible for a female to maintain the integrity of the symbol without revealing their gender.

In other words, Barbara Gordon equipped with top-class holographic imaging tech for the win!


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

I'm in the 'I like her as a cripple' camp.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 5, 2009)

When is the last time Babs was featured in a good monthly?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 5, 2009)

Birds of Prey was good at one point.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 5, 2009)




----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 5, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> When is the last time Babs was featured in a good monthly?



What other recent monthly was there besides Birds of Prey for Barbara?


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2009)

Robin used to be good too. It's enough to say 'this character works well like this'


----------



## Bender (May 5, 2009)

Hey you guys I just thought of something

What if....You know Tim Drake turns out to be the new Batman 

I can't help but think of that

Someone new is needed someone young

Also the fact that Morrison said the new Batman will be lighthearted can't help but make me think that Tim Drake will be the new Batman and Damian Robin.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 5, 2009)

I think Dick is pretty light hearted, but Jason would rule Gotham with an iron fist.


----------



## Bender (May 5, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I think Dick is pretty light hearted, but Jason would rule Gotham with an iron fist.



Yeah, but he lacks Tim's childish mentality (well as it appears to me) not to mention he kind of gives me that same aura Bat's had in the Shadow of the bat series


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 5, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Yeah, but he lacks Tim's childish mentality (well as it appears to me) not to mention he kind of gives me that same aura Bat's had in the Shadow of the bat series



Does Tim really have a childish mentality? Ive always though that after losing his parents, spoiler (sorta), bart, and kon, that he's been less lighthearted than dick is.


----------



## Bender (May 5, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Does Tim really have a childish mentality? Ive always though that after losing his parents, spoiler (sorta), bart, and kon, that he's been less lighthearted than dick is.



He barely lashes out at anyone as much as Bruce does 

But yes with so much loss there's alot of darkness within him

So much that  he'd perfect for the role.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 6, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> What other recent monthly was there besides Birds of Prey for Barbara?



Batgirl: Year One?


----------



## lucky (May 6, 2009)

would be ok if tim was, 'cept he's still a scrawny little runt.  (compared to the others, of course).  his presence would hardly be imposing.


----------



## Petes12 (May 6, 2009)

Someday someone will explain to me the decision to link barbara to killer moth.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 6, 2009)

Er, wasn't she always linked to Killer Moth?


----------



## Petes12 (May 6, 2009)

Yes. I guess I'm just surprised they kept that aspect, since obviously stuff that old is pretty easy to retcon without anyone caring. But then again, stuff like Batgirl: Year 1 can go for the retro campiness and work well.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 6, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Batgirl: Year One?



I'd count that as a mini.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 6, 2009)

Well, at least Cassandra Cain isn't mishandled in Network.

Not much she done, but kudos to the writer.


----------



## Petes12 (May 6, 2009)

It's kind of sad that you praise the writer for at least not fucking up.


----------



## lucky (May 6, 2009)

Cass was pretty badass in network. much moreso than her recent showings...


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Birds of Prey was good at one point.


yes it was.  I liked the Simone run.



Blaze of Glory said:


> Yeah, but he lacks *Tim's childish mentality* (well as it appears to me) not to mention he kind of gives me that same aura Bat's had in the Shadow of the bat series


the fuck?



ghstwrld said:


> Batgirl: Year One?



limiteds don't count.  but yes that was a good mini


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2009)

ok in the new Wizard Grant Morrison announces the artists for *Batman & Robin*

#1-#3, #10-#12 - _Frank Quitely_
#4-#6 - _Phillip Tan_ (Agent Orange, FC: Revelations)

#7-#9 - Originally supposed to be _Doug Mahnke_, now not 100% certain because of his new duties on GL.  Morrison has formally asked _Frazer Irving_ (Azrael: DDK, SS: Klarion, Silent War) to take over if Mahnke pulls out.


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Secret Six #9 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 6, 2009)

lolz at Bane signing


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2009)

Simone's Bane is the best 

I can't wait for when Ragdoll tries to become the new Robin in this issue


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 6, 2009)

Ragdoll was lulz during that secret six arc of BOP.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 6, 2009)

The Network was surprisingly awesome.


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2009)

> Ragdoll was lulz during that secret six arc of BOP.


that's nothing compared to how lulzy he is in the ongoing 


> The Network was surprisingly awesome.


in before CBG comes in an cries over how it's the only good portrayal of Cass and likely the last time we see her as Batgirl


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 6, 2009)

Is S6 in "la dump"?


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2009)

yes.  Villains United, the first mini, the BoP arc, and current

this post will be deleted in 5 minutes


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 6, 2009)

Simone's Bane is so OOC.

But SO damn good.

It's like a paradox.


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2009)

this is what Bane does when he's not breaking people.  I mean you can't keep that kind of persona 24/7


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 7, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> in before CBG comes in an cries over how it's the only good portrayal of Cass and likely the last time we see her as Batgirl



Already done that.

And I didn't forget this time about Chuck Dixon and her in Outsiders.



Kilowog said:


> this is what Bane does when he's not breaking people.  I mean you can't keep that kind of persona 24/7



But singing to a crybaby?


----------



## Castiel (May 7, 2009)




----------



## LIL_M0 (May 7, 2009)

Oh snap! it's those creepy doll chicks from Batman 666. :amazed


----------



## Castiel (May 7, 2009)

yeah, the villain of the 1st arc is Professor Pyg, the guy who Michael Lane hung upside down on the cross in 666


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 8, 2009)

So. . . #666 MAY become a reality. . .


----------



## ghstwrld (May 8, 2009)

More on BATGIRL — but not everything



> Well, a little more, at least. We’re not going to spoil the party right away and tell you who’s behind the mask. Heck, it might be someone you’ve never met before. Or it might not.
> 
> But, we can give you the lowdown on who the creators on this new ongoing will be. *First up, the series will be written by Bryan Q. Miller, who is no stranger to superheroics, having done some writing for a little show called “Smallville.”* Miller will also be penning a three-issue arc of TEEN TITANS, starting in July.
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (May 8, 2009)

Well the good news is he's only written 3 episodes, I guess in the current season... bad news is he's done pretty much nothing else so who knows if he can write at all.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 8, 2009)

> Miller will also be penning a three-issue arc of TEEN TITANS, starting in July.


 .


----------



## Petes12 (May 8, 2009)

whatever, not like TT doesn't already blow.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 8, 2009)

It's still good. 












It was good.


----------



## Castiel (May 8, 2009)

so wait, who's doing the art on Outsiders now?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 8, 2009)

Garbett's not?


----------



## Castiel (May 8, 2009)

the announcement ghstwrld posted said Garbett was moving to Batgirl


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 8, 2009)

He can do pencils for both... dammit.


----------



## Bender (May 8, 2009)

Hey you guys what day does the Battle for the cowl #3 come out? 

I can't wait pek pek


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 8, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> the announcement ghstwrld posted said Garbett was moving to Batgirl



Whoop-di-do.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 8, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Hey you guys what day does the Battle for the cowl #3 come out?
> 
> I can't wait pek pek



The 20th of May. Link removed


----------



## Bender (May 8, 2009)

Also something tells me we haven't heard the last of Tim 

I sense a Tim vs. Jason Todd part II next issue


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 8, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Also something tells me we haven't heard the last of Tim
> 
> I sense a Tim vs. Jason Todd part II Electric Boogaloo next issue



fix'd.


----------



## Petes12 (May 8, 2009)

It's Nightwing vs Todd.


----------



## Bender (May 9, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> It's Nightwing vs Todd.



Tim vs. Todd 

He's not finished yet


----------



## shit (May 9, 2009)

Tim got romped. You must be this tall to wear the batsuit.


----------



## Petes12 (May 9, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Tim vs. Todd
> 
> He's not finished yet


yeah he is, sorry


----------



## qks (May 9, 2009)

just hope they dont completly bitchify jason when nightwing beats him and becomes batman


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 9, 2009)

Maybe they'll kill him off. AGAIN.


----------



## Petes12 (May 9, 2009)

they won't.


----------



## Bender (May 9, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Maybe they'll kill him off. AGAIN.



God that'd be such fucking amateur writing if tehy do that shit


----------



## Bender (May 9, 2009)

LOL

Btw I just thought of something

What if Terry (Batman Beyond) somehow appeared as the new Batman?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 9, 2009)

then I'd go punch something.


----------



## Bender (May 9, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> then I'd go punch something.



What's your problem with Mcginnis boy?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 9, 2009)

Nothing, just that he's not supposed to be in 2009.


----------



## Bender (May 9, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Nothing, just that he's not supposed to be in 2009.



True dat true dat  *BUT * he did appear in Count Down to Final Crisis if I recall correctly.  Plus, you never know what could happen. It said in the preview it will either be Dick Grayson Tim Drake Jason Todd or someone completely unexpected.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 9, 2009)

Yeah, on Earth 12   but all of the universes in the multiverse don't age at the same rate. It was the futer where he was.

Also, previews lie.


----------



## Castiel (May 9, 2009)

Mr. Freeze is showing up in the next Outsiders arc 

Link removed


----------



## Castiel (May 9, 2009)




----------



## Castiel (May 9, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Azrael: Death's Dark Knight #3 preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 9, 2009)

Nightwing wielding a sword. Of course.


----------



## Petes12 (May 9, 2009)

He's going to be Batman CBG. That means he has to be able to do _anything_.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 9, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Nightwing wielding a sword. Of course.



Dick fought Ras Al ghul with a sword. 


Othrys12 said:


> He's going to be Batman CBG. That means he has to be able to do _anything_.


----------



## Stalin (May 9, 2009)

I read a r.i.p prequel, the black hand, though it was actually the latter half that led up to it. The art of the first half was awesome. Is the r.i,p graphic novel worth the $25?


----------



## Petes12 (May 9, 2009)

Kinda depends on how much you like Grant Morrison.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 9, 2009)

The Cheat said:


> I read a r.i.p prequel, the black hand, though it was actually the latter half that led up to it. The art of the first half was awesome. Is the r.i,p graphic novel worth the $25?



I'd rather read it for free. :ho


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 10, 2009)

Some people like Morrison, and some people don't. Doesn't mean that everyone gets what he write.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 10, 2009)

That's true. 

I only like certain things Morrison has done: New X-Men and Batman.


----------



## Castiel (May 10, 2009)

I, on the other hand, am a giant Morrison whore.  I've loved everything he's done:

All-Star Superman, New X-Men, Batman, JLA, Zenith, The Filth, Doom Patrol, Seaguy, We3, Animal Man, Aztek, Seven Soldiers, Final Crisis, DC: One Million, Marvel Boy, Fantastic Four: 1234

:ho


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 10, 2009)

Yes, very whore-ish.


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2009)

Wait. You don't like All-Star Superman M0?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 10, 2009)

No, never gave it a chance actually... but still no.


----------



## Castiel (May 10, 2009)

you are sick in the head


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2009)

read it you bastard it's only twelve issues. I didn't like all of it myself (mainly disliked the bizzaro story) but overall it really is excellent.


----------



## Castiel (May 10, 2009)

no part of ASS was not good 

but yeah, some parts were more epic that others.  The Prison Riot interview was fucking hilarious, also loved the "last will" issue and was actually saddened by the death of Pa Kent.


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2009)

I said I didn't personally like it! Not that it wasn't good. A lot of people will say they didn't like RIP or FC for whatever personal reasons... but they're very well done. ASS is my favorite thing from Morrison though (that I've read at least... I haven't read a lot of what you listed). And Quitely's art is so perfect for that series.

Oh and 2 of the issues, one from the last issue and the other from where superman fighting a bizarro copy of himself, are just some of my favorite art in comics ever.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 10, 2009)

The Bizarro issue is my favourite All-Star Superman story.

Zibarro. Fucking great concept. What a poor soul.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 13, 2009)

"No, it's Uncle Mike." I loved that part. pek

... and then he got some.


----------



## Petes12 (May 13, 2009)

That was some really outstanding art this issue.


----------



## Shirō Kazami (May 13, 2009)

Isn't cutting off that guy's legs already asking for Dick to come back and kick his ass?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 13, 2009)

He could try, but this time Azreal has TWO swords.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 13, 2009)

Ha. Better than I expected, going in.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 13, 2009)

Wow. Battle for the Cowl: Oracle... fuckin sucked.


----------



## shit (May 13, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Wow. Battle for the Cowl: Oracle... fuckin sucked.



Yes!! The thing that saved the first issue, random nerd death by head explosion, was cut out of the second it seems. It better be the first image in the third issue, or it's dropped like so much toilet paper.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 13, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Wow. Battle for the Cowl: Oracle... fuckin sucked.



It's fuckin' hilarious how god awful this mini really is.


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2009)

Oracle fucking sucked donkey dongs

Azrael mini was damn cool, but this last issue just felt like a transitional issue, still good though.

Secret Six was fucking awesome


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2009)

you are not ready for the awesome you are about to witness


----------



## mow (May 14, 2009)

oh god that slayed me XD


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 14, 2009)

Looks like Barbara will be Batgirl, if the old Batgirl logo is any clue. . .


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

I can't imagine they'd do that. First, she's like Nightwing's age, maybe older? Not really a 'batgirl'. Second, she's still a cripple. I'm going with it being Stephanie, and the other 2 Batgirls being important supporting characters of the book.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 14, 2009)

I'm thinking that the anti-life crystals (or whatever the fuck they were) healed her. If so... , If not...  because the mini sucked.


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2009)

the crystal apparently make people worse.  chaos larry was healed from his heart condition, but was given luekemia

also m0, no responce on my Tiny Titans epic?


----------



## Bender (May 14, 2009)

Yo' I didn't get the chance to go to the comic book store so tell me what happened to Azrael is he still on the move?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 14, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Yo' I didn't get the chance to go to the comic book store so tell me what happened to Azrael is he still on the move?



Old one, still MIA.

New one, getting his own ongoing soon.


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

I thought the old one was dead.


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2009)

there was no body...

anyways solicits time







> *BATGIRL #1
> Written by Bryan Q. Miller
> Art by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott
> Cover by Phil Noto
> ...









> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #3
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art and cover by Frank Quitely
> Variant cover by Tony Daniel*
> ...









> *DETECTIVE COMICS #856
> Written by Greg Rucka
> Art by JH Williams III; co-feature art by Cully Hamner
> Cover by JH Williams III
> ...









> *BATMAN #689
> Written by Judd Winick
> Art by Mark Bagley & Rob Hunter
> Cover by Andy Kubert
> ...









> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #3
> Written by Paul Dini; co-feature written by Marc Andreyko
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs; co-feature art by Georges Jeanty & Karl Story
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen*
> ...









> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #3
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art and cover by Guillem March*
> 
> ...









> *OUTSIDERS #21
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Fernando Pasarin
> Cover by Tom Mandrake
> ...









> *RED ROBIN #3
> Written by Christopher Yost
> Art by Ramon Bachs
> Cover by Francis Manapul
> ...









> *BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL #32
> Written by Peter Milligan
> Art by Andy Clarke
> Cover by Guillem March
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

Stephanie Brown it is. 

And streets of gotham looks like massive win


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2009)

Mark Bagley's Batman


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

At least Bagley got the costume right in the interior art (as opposed to the cover from a while ago that didn't look at all the same as Quitely's design).


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2009)

> Stephanie Brown it is.


I'm 50% certain it's her, with 25% each on either Misfit or Wendy


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

Wendy looks like she's paralyzed from the waist down in that Oracle mini (is that ironic? maybe). Plus I'm pretty sure she's no martial artist. 

And Misfit has freckles. Check out that cover. No freckles! I also doubt they'll ever give a Batperson legitimate super powers.


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2009)

these solicits make me think there's a crossover coming up soon. or it could be that the editors are making sure everything is very tightly knit


----------



## Sylar (May 14, 2009)

Bagley's Batman is awesome.


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

Maybe about as tightly-knit as Superman is right now, but most of them look like they're all dealing with different stuff, the exception being Dini's books.

Maybe a crossover after Morrison's 12 issues.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 14, 2009)

Sylar said:


> Bagley's Batman is awesome.



Bagley's Batman is getting his ass kicked.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 14, 2009)

So it's not going to be Barbara.

That'll piss off the Barbara community.

And Cassandra Cain leaves the Batgirl identity. . .

But will she be fucked shafted again?!


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 14, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> there was no body...



 Lies! Superman was clearly holding Bruce's remains... which were buried next to the Waynes.


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

The Barbara community kinda needs to get over the fact that it's not the Adam West days anymore, and that Barbara is certainly no Bat_girl_ anymore either. 

They can basically go fuck-slash-kill themselves right along with shippers.


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Lies! Superman was clearly holding Bruce's remains... which were buried next to the Waynes.



He means Azrael


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 14, 2009)

Oh... I knew that. I did!!!


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2009)

Azrael basically just fell off a building after being shot a bunch of times.  no body was ever found and it was never followed up again.


----------



## Bender (May 14, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Old one, still MIA.
> 
> *New one, getting his own ongoing soon.*



Yeah I know that 

I mean what happened in the last part of the  Azrael Battle for the cowl comic?


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

He cut a random thug's legs off.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 14, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> The Barbara community kinda needs to get over the fact that it's not the Adam West days anymore, and that Barbara is certainly no Bat_girl_ anymore either.
> 
> They can basically go fuck-slash-kill themselves right along with shippers.


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

What the heck is that?


----------



## ghstwrld (May 14, 2009)

Maniacal faith.


----------



## Petes12 (May 14, 2009)

Ha, I see it now!


----------



## Castiel (May 15, 2009)

thing is, Babs is _far_ more useful as Oracle than she _ever_ cold be as Batgirl, hell as Oracle she was the freaking lynchpin of the JLA.


----------



## Petes12 (May 15, 2009)

I thought it was kinda weird that all of the sudden once she's paralyzed she was a computer genuis. But I guess that can be attributed to changes that came with CoIE. 

It's not just that she's a strong character as Oracle though, or that she's grown out of a batgirl role even if she had her legs back. It's like, what's the point of losing that Oracle character to bring back... what, a plucky go-get-em superhero who barely would fit in with the Batman franchise today? Even dialed back a bit, but still a happier sort of Batgirl... that character can be done without changing Oracle. It can be done with Stephanie, obviously.


----------



## Castiel (May 15, 2009)

Babs as Oracle was a big ass twist in Suicide Squad, they had Oracle be this huge invincible hacker who no one could ID, then after about 2 years they revealed it was Babs.

Ostrander said it was his way of stating that even without your legs, you can still be a hero.


----------



## Petes12 (May 15, 2009)

I didn't know that, that's actually pretty cool.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 15, 2009)

If Barbara quits being Oracle, the superhero community is screwed. They depend on her too much.


----------



## Petes12 (May 15, 2009)

That was actually a thing in Batman once wasn't it? Batman did something to piss her off, plus her tower got ruined, and he wasn't able to use her anymore for a while.


----------



## kyle82 (May 15, 2009)

can be anyone with the same built... it's nicer if whoever goes out to be batman decides to be an ectomorph first before he engages into the role... there's to much demand with this chracter..


----------



## Yoshi (May 15, 2009)

Is there anyone on her level who could replace her?


----------



## Bender (May 15, 2009)

Yoshi said:


> Is there anyone on her level who could replace her?



What's your problem with Oracle? 

She's hot and got a brain that beats Bill Gates and Einstein put together.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (May 15, 2009)

Some new pages colored


*Spoiler*: _Batman and Robin #1: Page 6 Colored_


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> What's your problem with Oracle?
> 
> She's hot and got a brain that beats Bill Gates and Einstein put together.



but she can't walk...


----------



## Bender (May 15, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> but she can't walk...



So what? Dude you got something against cripple people?  She's a symbol for crippled people and is an invaluable addition to the superhero community. Your hatred towards her is very bigoted null and unjustified. Honestly, without her Final Crisis would have been a *REAL *victory for evil.


----------



## Okkervil River (May 15, 2009)

Wow @ Streets of Gotham cover.  Apparently whoever's Batman seriously bulked up.


----------



## Yoshi (May 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> What's your problem with Oracle?
> 
> She's hot and got a brain that beats Bill Gates and Einstein put together.


It was kindof a compliment. If she does become Batgirl/woman/whatever, is there possibly anyone who could replace her as a new Oracle? I don't think so, but please people feel free to disagree and put forward suggestions.


----------



## Okkervil River (May 15, 2009)

I doubt Babs will be Batgirl again.  I know Didio is all about returning to the "most identifiable characters," but I don't think even he would be crazy enough to shit all over what has made her such a great character over the last 20 years by essentially regressing her like that.  It would almost be like Dick becoming Robin again.  The character's are past that, or should be.

Of course, watch me be completely wrong, .


----------



## Slice (May 15, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> but she can't walk *away from you*



Fixed


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> *So what? Dude you got something against cripple people?  She's a symbol for crippled people* and is an invaluable addition to the superhero community. Your hatred towards her is very bigoted null and unjustified. Honestly, without her Final Crisis would have been a *REAL *victory for evil.


No, that's not what I meant. What I meant to say was... 


Slice said:


> Fixed


Yeah, that's what I meant.


----------



## Castiel (May 15, 2009)

what are you? the Monkey from the Boys?


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (May 15, 2009)

It won't be Babs and that's gotta be Stephanie Brown. Looking at the figure Babs is curvier than that and she doesn't have that petite body anymore. Sure she has a great body but that body could only belong to Stephanie or Cassandra. Going with the preview for that volume it would also go along with it being Stephanie. Not saying it's not Babs but it does say young woman and it states that she'll learn what it means to wear the mantle of the Bat. You would have figured that Babs had already known all throughout those years right?  

It'll go along with Tim's comment about not wanting to see her in "that" costume again and that being the Spoiler costume. He listens to her words and what does she do? Become Batgirl instead. It makes perfect sense I think.


----------



## Castiel (May 15, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle for the Cowl #3 preview_


----------



## Castiel (May 15, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Outsiders #18 preview_


----------



## Castiel (May 15, 2009)

> *BLACKEST NIGHT: BATMAN #1
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Adrian Saef & John Dell
> Cover by Andy Kubert
> ...





for those who don't know, Deadman was an acrobat, like Dick.  also Deadman played a major role in "Nightwing: Year One", the arc where Dick decidesto become Nightwing


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 15, 2009)

> Deadman


I called it.


----------



## Yoshi (May 15, 2009)

Flying Grayson Black Lanterns? Hmm. I'm not sure what to think of this.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 16, 2009)

Why not Black Lanterns Waynes?


----------



## Bergelmir (May 16, 2009)

Because Bruce is stuck in the past. If Bruce was still alive in the present, Papa and Mama Wayne would definately be Black Lanterns. And you know Bruce would have to go through some the mindfuck of killing his parents(even if its just their bodies).


----------



## p4poetic (May 16, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle for the Cowl #3 preview_



Thanks for posting. 

I'm beginning to think Harley doesn't really translate well into comics. She only looks right in the cartoon.


----------



## Yoshi (May 16, 2009)

She has really prominent nipples there.


----------



## Castiel (May 16, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: __



[YOUTUBE]tRVUOGUmxJI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Bender (May 16, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: _Batman: Battle for the Cowl #3 preview_



LOL

Damian failed at knocking out Alfred 

DUN DUN DUN 

Nightwing's turn to turn into Batman 

Also sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeit

Gotham City looking like Mexico post-Drug cartel war


----------



## Petes12 (May 17, 2009)

By the way, still think he's 9 kilowog?


----------



## mow (May 17, 2009)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> It won't be Babs and that's gotta be Stephanie Brown. Looking at the figure Babs is curvier than that and she doesn't have that petite body anymore. Sure she has a great body but that body could only belong to Stephanie or Cassandra.



Comic continuity: aiding in the study (and appreciation) of the female figure since the '50s.


----------



## Agmaster (May 17, 2009)

harley in comic form is too subtle.  even if she is smart, she has the air of a ditz, hard to translate in a still medium as opposed to really easy in a fully controlled one in motion.


----------



## Eevihl (May 17, 2009)

Poison Ivy is hot.
Nuff said.


----------



## shit (May 17, 2009)

Damian's gonna go avenge his skank 
calling him vs Croc


----------



## Yoshi (May 17, 2009)

KojiDarth said:


> Poison Ivy is hot.
> Nuff said.


I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.


----------



## Bender (May 17, 2009)

KojiDarth said:


> Poison Ivy is hot.
> Nuff said.



Please no......no..don't go there dude....You do *NOT* her STD's  you'll be growing mushrooms around your sack after doing it with her.


----------



## Yoshi (May 17, 2009)

Some kind of yeast infection I bet.


----------



## mow (May 17, 2009)

STDs never sounded more worthwhile.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 17, 2009)

More like plant infection down there.


----------



## Bender (May 17, 2009)

mow said:


> STDs never sounded more worthwhile.



So you'd risk STD's to fuck Ivy?


----------



## Yoshi (May 17, 2009)

I'd risk the splinters, yes.


----------



## shit (May 17, 2009)

The rash comes without question, but I can't think of a better way to scratch that itch. :ho


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 17, 2009)

Or contract LITERAL poison ivy. . . down there.


----------



## Sunuvmann (May 17, 2009)

I find this thread's title oximoronic. A title comicbook character never stays dead. Ever.

Rest in peace my ass.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 17, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> I find this thread's title oximoronic. A title comicbook character never stays dead. Ever.
> 
> Rest in peace my ass.



"Batman: R.I.P." was the name of the story arc, but thanks for playing.


----------



## Castiel (May 17, 2009)

also we all *know* Batman is coming back, hell we have a near concrete timetable


----------



## shit (May 17, 2009)

thread title should be "Batman: Battle for the Cowl" or a net thread just called "Batman nananananananana nananananananana Batman"

I'm good at this


----------



## Petes12 (May 17, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> I find this thread's title oximoronic. A title comicbook character never stays dead. Ever.
> 
> Rest in peace my ass.



I find you dumb as bricks.


----------



## Castiel (May 17, 2009)

thread should probably be retitled *Batman Reborn* cause that's the blanker name of the June revamp


----------



## Petes12 (May 17, 2009)

...or just Batman


----------



## Castiel (May 17, 2009)

no, I have spoken


----------



## Bender (May 18, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Or contract LITERAL poison ivy. . . down there.



Grabs pack    

Stay the fuck away from me Ivy


----------



## mow (May 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> So you'd risk STD's to fuck Ivy?



well, if Ivy looked anything like this


*Spoiler*: _hubba hubba hubba_ 








then yes,  bring on the STDs (this is such a weird conv now XD)

it's a classic case of the 'Tigra Syndrome':

if you fuck her, you're into furries. 
if you dont fuck her, you're obviously clinically gay 

PARADOX


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

Doesn't her kiss kill you? 

I dunno... my mind keeps thinking 'venus fly trap' down there <.<


----------



## mow (May 18, 2009)

.    .


----------



## Eevihl (May 18, 2009)

Yoshi said:


> I'd risk the splinters, yes.



I'd hit it.


----------



## Slice (May 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> thread should probably be retitled *Batman Reborn* cause that's the blanker name of the June revamp



Maybe "Batman R.I.P - until..." because it sure looked like a rather peaceful time he was having 



And Ivy? Some things just are worth it.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 18, 2009)

DEATH BY SNU-SNU.


----------



## Agmaster (May 18, 2009)

I wouldn't.  Id ask her to put in a good word with Harley, though.


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

That might have been the greatest Futurama episode ever


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 18, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> DEATH BY SNU-SNU.



My favorite part was their faces. it kept changing from "" to "" and back to "".

:rofl


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 18, 2009)

Back on topic. For right now, Dick is the only good choice. Tim lacks the experience as well as the general combat skill, and jason is crazy. (Although i hope Jason turns into some kind of alternate take on batman who continues bustin caps)

But for the future, i really really hope that sometime down the line DC makes Tim the new batman. He's got the potential to surpass batman as far as detective and combat skills go, and he's starting to develop that think out side the box mentality that makes batman so dangerous. I think Tim could be a different kind of batman while still having what it takes to truly do the job (I dont think dick could do this). 

It really grinds my gears that DC or marvel are so so scared of moving past their main heroes. Thats one of the things i loved about the flash, nightwing, and GL, since it gave an actual sense of progression. Same with cap dieing in marvel. But it seems like the MO for DC is to just rewind time, and marvel is probably going to bring cap back as well, even though some of their best stories in a while have been with bucky as cap.


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

You know that topic is like a year old.


----------



## Castiel (May 18, 2009)

who cares, at least its something other than "plant stds"


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 18, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> I think Tim could be a different kind of batman while still having what it takes to truly do the job (I dont think dick could do this).



Lil' Mo --->  <--- Windwaker


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> who cares, at least its something other than "plant stds"



He also said 'grinds my gears' though, thats points against him 

I guess I just thought it was kind of silly because now we know who the new Batman is. And it's not about who can be the best imitation of Bruce, which would probably be Tim. It's about having a different kind of Batman for a little bit.


----------



## mow (May 18, 2009)

did any of the writers mention any intentions regarding the Joker being involved while Bruce is away? Morrison seems set about introducing new characters and villains rather recycle old characters


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 18, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> He also said 'grinds my gears' though, thats points against him
> 
> I guess I just thought it was kind of silly because now we know who the new Batman is. And it's not about who can be the best imitation of Bruce, which would probably be Tim. It's about having a different kind of Batman for a little bit.



Ha whats wrong with grinds my gears? Is it that lame? ha. 

Well i know that dick is going to be the new batman, i just meant as a long term thing.

I dont think Dick can be batman for good, since he fits too well as nightwing, and i think he could be better developed as a charismatic leader, and the role of batman would be constrictive IMO.

And i didnt say tim would be an imitation of batman, i think he'll be the best detective in the long run, and to me thats what batman is, the detective. 

Also, while Tim is kind of a bruce clone right now, he handles it differently, he still has hope and isnt as much of a debbie downer as bruce is. I think he could be a different batman, but still batman, if that makes any sense.

Not to mention that with,

*Spoiler*: __ 



Conner and Bart back



he's going to get slighly less emo.



LIL_M0 said:


> Lil' Mo --->  <--- Windwaker



BAT-FIVE!


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

Haha, did you really spoiler tag Bart's return, with that sig?

Anyway, Bruce Wayne is too deeply ingrained as the one true Batman in people's minds. If he leaves the picture permanently, that's basically the end of batman's story. And DC does not want that to happen.


----------



## mow (May 18, 2009)

Im actually very happy Tim is going to be Red Robin. of all 3 he's the better detective, and having him become a globe trotter with (hopefully C. Cain. Please make it Cassandra, I cant express enough how little i care for that spoiler chick) totally fits his persona. Bruce is his dad, bottom line. Him roaming the planet looking for clues is going to make one great series.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 18, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Haha, did you really spoiler tag Bart's return, with that sig?
> 
> Anyway, Bruce Wayne is too deeply ingrained as the one true Batman in people's minds. If he leaves the picture permanently, that's basically the end of batman's story. And DC does not want that to happen.



haha wow, yes i did. Please excuse my momentary lapse of reason.

I agree that Wayne is very ingrained, but i like the idea of batman as a symbol, as a legacy, "more than a man". Its been shown that batman is necessary for gotham, and that even without bruce, someone needs to be batman.

Unless Bruce becomes immortal, i think batman has to go to someone else eventually, regardless of what bruce thought before R.I.P.



mow said:


> Im actually very happy Tim is going to be Red Robin. of all 3 he's the better detective, and having him become a globe trotter with (hopefully C. Cain. Please make it Cassandra, I cant express enough how little i care for that spoiler chick) totally fits his persona. Bruce is his dad, bottom line. Him roaming the planet looking for clues is going to make one great series.



While i dont mind spoiler, and done want cass to get involved with robin romantically, i love them as Wingman and wingwoman. The issues of them in bludhaven crimebusting sibling style was awesome, overall its just interesting when they react.

That and its a great Brain (tim) and brawn (cass) combo.


----------



## Castiel (May 18, 2009)

mow said:


> did any of the writers mention any intentions regarding the Joker being involved while Bruce is away? Morrison seems set about introducing new characters and villains rather recycle old characters



he aluded to the notion of the final arc of *Batman & Robin* being about the return of the Joker, as drawn by Frank Quitely :ho


----------



## mow (May 18, 2009)

....awwwwwwwwwwwwww yeaaaaah


----------



## Castiel (May 18, 2009)

JH Williams artwork


----------



## mow (May 18, 2009)

breathtaking doesn't even begin to describe this


----------



## Castiel (May 18, 2009)

Marc Andreyko talks about the bazillionth return of Manhunter


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

mow said:


> breathtaking doesn't even begin to describe this



a lot of credit has to go to the colorist too because the finished pages are just so outstanding in a way the pencils alone aren't.


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

Also I've never read Manhunter... I take it it's good? If it's been canceled that much, how many volumes are there to read about this Kate manhunter?


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

variant for Batman and Robin 1, by J G Jones 

I think I only just realized that's a hood on Robin.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 18, 2009)

Crushing seriousness for the loss!


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

I have no idea what you're talking about


----------



## ghstwrld (May 18, 2009)

Jones' cover lacks Quietly's whimsy.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 18, 2009)

Jones should've fucking finished Final Crisis!


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

Ah. His batman also lacks the proper new gauntlets. But its just a variant, this is exactly what variants are for- when you want something different from the main cover and this is as different as it gets. Not like it's all dreary and relentlessly dark, it's focused on Damian and he's even smiling!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 18, 2009)

The new robin outfit is pretty sweet. Not quite as cool as tim's. But its more fitting for a new robin.

That cover makes me think that I might not hate damian haha. As much as i love Tim as Robin, it'll be refreshing to see Robin all bright eyed and happy again ha.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 18, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Jones should've fucking finished Final Crisis!



Doug Manke is sublime.  :ho



Othrys12 said:


> Ah. His batman also lacks the proper new gauntlets. But its just a variant, this is exactly what variants are for- when you want something different from the main cover and this is as different as it gets. Not like it's all dreary and relentlessly dark, it's focused on Damian and he's even smiling!



Get your rationality and pragmatism out of my effin' face.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 18, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Doug Manke is slime.  :ho



indeed. :ho


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (May 18, 2009)

I wish Dick stayed Batman for a while but I know it's not going to happen at all. The main reason is so we can have a new Batman deal with the same situations in a different way. It's a good way to see how they differ and along with that when you think of Batman it'll be two different versions rather than one with a temporary replacement like after Bruce broke his back. Another reason is Nightwing. When he became Nightwing he turned into his own hero. His own man, his own strength, basically his own everything. That's exactly what he needed to be but beyond that? He's an amazing hero but he's not up to Batman's level. When you think of the two everyone sees Bruce winning. It's not about strength but it's above propelling Dick from a great superhero into an amazingly great superhero up to Bruce's level. I've always thought that Dick can eventually reach Bruce's level later n through all the time he's been training and after all the effort he's put into. Not saying I dislike Nightwing, he's amazing but it's time for Dick to evolve. Hopefully during his time as Batman (for however long he's Batman but personally I hope it's a long long time) we'll see the huge dramatic change. 

Tim branching off to become a new superhero is a good evolution to his character. It was going to happen eventually and I feel that he's really done as much as he can do as a Robin could have done before eventually changing. Now that he's going to be Red Robin it'll be interesting to see how he handles things. 

Finally Damian on the last cover's pretty cool. Seeing him smiling while the amazing scenery's shown and finally seeing his Robin costume in full glow is perfect. The hood is classic Damian. I'm a bit angry that Dick's not shown as the main light in that cover though but hey what am I going to do. Best part about this series is that we'll see how Damian separates himself from the former Robins. I wonder how the new boy wonder will stack up. 

Looking forward to the new comics.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 18, 2009)

^ tl;dr

I like Batman!


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 18, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> ^ tl;dr
> 
> I like Batman!



OMG Me too


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 18, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Jones should've fucking finished Final Crisis!



If he did, it would have been rushed. That guy needs a fuckload of time.


----------



## Castiel (May 18, 2009)

Othrys12 said:


> Also I've never read Manhunter... I take it it's good? If it's been canceled that much, how many volumes are there to read about this Kate manhunter?


it was a great series, its one of those that you wish wasn;t cancelled so it was dream to see it come back


Othrys12 said:


> I think I only just realized that's a hood on Robin.


to state the painfully obvious:

Damian's Robin outfit has always had a hood on it


ghstwrld said:


> Jones' cover lacks Quietly's whimsy.



your point is?


----------



## Taleran (May 18, 2009)

One Piece Episode 401 (Kizaru)
One Piece Episode 401 (Kizaru)
One Piece Episode 401 (Kizaru)


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Damian's Robin outfit has always had a hood on it



Yeah but this is a new costume! and I thought from quitely's drawings that it was some kind of second cape or something. Now it does seem pretty obvious though


----------



## ghstwrld (May 19, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> your point is?



The aesthetic appears to be at odds with the tone Morrison and company are going for.  As Othrys12 rightly pointed out, it isn't that big of a deal though.

PS: The 'crushing seriousness' bit is more of an assessment of Jones' technique to render the image than of the content therein.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 19, 2009)

Taleran said:


> Lets draw random blenderites on MS Paint
> Lets draw random blenderites on MS Paint
> Lets draw random blenderites on MS Paint



At least someone over there has an awesome sense of humour.


----------



## shit (May 19, 2009)

100 pages


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 20, 2009)

Battle for the Cowl was quite awesome.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 20, 2009)

It could have been a lot worst, really. So, not bad.


----------



## Castiel (May 20, 2009)

the fuck is Black Mask?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 20, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> the fuck is Black Mask?



Ultimate Nick Fury? :ho


----------



## shit (May 20, 2009)

new black mask = Joker?


----------



## Yoshi (May 20, 2009)

Too serious.


----------



## Petes12 (May 20, 2009)

I thought it was kinda disappointing. A weak last issue imo. The Black Mask stuff was never resolved, which I guess would be ok except I didn't really find the big fight between Nightwing and Todd to be all that great or interesting.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 20, 2009)

I read War Games










I didn't like War Games










but it was free.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 20, 2009)

BFTC is a cynical money grab all around.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (May 20, 2009)

Loved the ending, wow. 

I need to get a Dick Grayson Batman sig now.


----------



## Petes12 (May 20, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> BFTC is a cynical money grab all around.



Arkham was pretty good. I'm honestly thankful though that it was short and they didn't try to turn it into some 5 month BS.


----------



## Castiel (May 20, 2009)

Alfred is a fucking pimp.

He not only stood up to Deathstroke.

He punched him in the face


----------



## Mikaveli (May 20, 2009)

I want a butler like that. Hell I'll take a butler thats a pansy. A butler is a butler.


----------



## Bender (May 20, 2009)

Kilowog said:
			
		

> the fuck is Black Mask?



Dick pretty much nailed it. Jason Todd since no one ever saw Black Mask. No one opposed him than Jason. Also how come Black Mask never mentioned him in the 2nd issue? Jason killed his henchmen, and he doesn't seem to give a shit. In Gotham Underground Jason appears shortly after Catwoman meets him. Also the Batman suit Jason wears his eyes glow the same color as Black Mask mask does. 



LIL_M0 said:


> Ultimate Nick Fury? :ho



Marvel Ultimate Marvel sucks get the fuck out of here with that gay shit son


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 20, 2009)

Ultimate Fury would end you for saying that. Apologize before he gets here.


----------



## Enclave (May 20, 2009)

So Dicks the new Batman eh?  Honestly, he's the only one aside from Bruce that I can accept to take up the cowl.  I'm happy with this outcome.  Let's hope it sticks for a while.


----------



## Petes12 (May 20, 2009)

It will stick for one year.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 20, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Dick pretty much nailed it. Jason Todd since no one ever saw Black Mask. No one opposed him than Jason. Also how come Black Mask never mentioned him in the 2nd issue? Jason killed his henchmen, and he doesn't seem to give a shit. In Gotham Underground Jason appears shortly after Catwoman meets him.


Jason being Black Mask would be interesting...


Blaze of Glory said:


> Also the Batman suit Jason wears his eyes glow the same color as Black Mask mask does.


... this part is pretty irrelevant to the theory.


----------



## Enclave (May 20, 2009)

Longer than I would have expected.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 20, 2009)

Hmm....



ghstwrld said:


> Is Jason the Black Mask or am I reading this all wrong?




:ho


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 20, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Is Jason the Black Mask or am I reading this all wrong?



ghstwrld is  win.


----------



## Petes12 (May 20, 2009)

It's possible but far from proven, unless I'm missing something. The one obscure picture of Black Mask we get without his helm sure doesn't look like Jason to me. But it'd be kinda cool if it was Jason.

edit: Now that I think about it, it was Black Mask that basically let the world know Batman's dead right? And Jason was one of the few people who knew...

still it seems like, unless he is just completely gone now, that he'd go right ahead and blow all those villains' heads off with that bomb thing he has.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 21, 2009)

Black Mask better be someone NEW. Not resurrected and shit. . .


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2009)

He's confirmed to not be the old Black Mask.


----------



## NeoDMC (May 21, 2009)

It's obvious that the Black Mask that was killed at the end of War Games wasn't the OLD Black Mask.

See the REAL Black Mask was cryogenically frozen by himself, so that he could one day rule Gotham when Batman was dead of old age. The Black Mask that died in War Games was someone who took his place, and the REAL Black Mask came back after some shit with the cryogenics not working or some bullshit like that.

So you see, he really isn't the Black Mask who was killed in War Games so technically he isn't really the "old" Black Mask.

Thank you DC editorial.


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2009)

Black Mask was killed in Catwoman not War Games!


----------



## NeoDMC (May 21, 2009)

This is DC Editorial we are talking about...


----------



## Petes12 (May 21, 2009)

Well he was last killed in Catwoman!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 21, 2009)

With a bullet to the head, I believe.


----------



## Bergelmir (May 21, 2009)

Maybe its just me, but was I the only one who felt like Jason was possessed or something? The whole glowy red eyes bit was funky. Reminded me of the 666 issue of Batman.


----------



## Okkervil River (May 21, 2009)

Jason was very different from his last appearances in Robin, but then he "cracked" I guess.  I really hope his "secret" isn't childhood sexual abuse or something equally contrived.  Unless the sexual abuse was by Batman, in which case, =O


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 21, 2009)

IMO this arc single handedly ruined jason todd's character.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 21, 2009)

Joke post?


----------



## mow (May 21, 2009)

I hate how it ended, it was like Hush Part deuce


----------



## Castiel (May 21, 2009)

I'm betting that all this Jason/BM/etc. will be addressed in Winick's upcomign run.  Since Winick was originally going to be the writer of BftC and helped Daniel plot it.  also it frees Morrison to do whatever.


----------



## Okkervil River (May 21, 2009)

I think it's pretty safe to say Jason will be Dick's Joker during his tenure as Batman.  Arch-nemesis and all.  Or at least that's what I got from BTFC.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 21, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Jason was very different from his last appearances in Robin, but then he "cracked" I guess. * I really hope his "secret" isn't childhood sexual abuse or something equally contrived. * Unless the sexual abuse was by Batman, in which case, =O



I don't know.

WINNICK was the one who brought him back.


----------



## Castiel (May 22, 2009)

I don't care if this is off topic, Mark Waid is awesome   Batman is awesome  and Barcelona is awesome 

also Waid wrote a terrific Batman in JLA




*Spoiler*: _Batman in Barcelona: Dragon's Knight #1 Preview_


----------



## Castiel (May 22, 2009)

Ep 18


Tony Daniel interview


----------



## Agmaster (May 22, 2009)

Hm, a big action fan shows in this.  It seemed like it would do well to have been more subtly written.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 22, 2009)

So Catwoman will be elsewhere. . .


----------



## Castiel (May 22, 2009)

MSNBC

Morrison interview


----------



## Castiel (May 22, 2009)

*J.G. Jones Variants*


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 22, 2009)

Am I the only one who's apathetic about Winnick's return to Batman? I mean I liked his previous stuff, but as it stands I just don't care Batman 687.


----------



## Castiel (May 22, 2009)

> Am I the only one who's apathetic about Winnick's return to Batman?


about half the internet thinks it'll suck


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 22, 2009)

I don't think it'll suck, as I said, I liked his Red Hood Saga (that arc also makes me think that Jason stole Black Mask's identity),  I just can't find the urge to wanna read non-Morrison Batman when there's an option of Morrison Batman.


----------



## Castiel (May 22, 2009)

I hear that 

I'm mainly gonna check it out because I want some confirmation of fucking Black Mask   also Mark Bagley   and Tony Daniel is eventually coming back


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 22, 2009)

Am I the only one who believes Jones is like Land?


----------



## Castiel (May 22, 2009)

Morrison interview was awesome.  

his pitch for Pyg and the Circus of the Strange sounds awesome, and seems perfect for Quitely's style.

Joker is unconfirmed, but likely will show up in the final arc

2nd arc (art by Tan) will revamp a classic batvillain

Dr. Hurt will shoiw up to temp Dick and Damian (remember in #666, Damian said he "sold his soul to the devil"?...)

what happened to bruce will be explained


----------



## Okkervil River (May 23, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I don't think it'll suck, as I said, I liked his Red Hood Saga (that arc also makes me think that Jason stole Black Mask's identity),  I just can't find the urge to wanna read non-Morrison Batman when there's an option of Morrison Batman.



I don't know.  Winnick hasn't been doing much but writing mediocre-to-terrible superhero books since then, so I don't exactly have much faith.  Which isn't to say I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt and check it out, but I'm really not expecting much.  So long as it's better than his run on Green Arrow/Black Canary I'll consider it something of a victory.

To be honest, of the new books and aside from B&R, I'm most excited for Yost's Red Robin and Rucka's Detective Comics, though the latter mostly for the Question back-up, since I've not been too captivated by Batwoman so far.  But I trust with some room to actually flesh out (i.e. give her a) personality, Rucka will be able to do wonders.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 23, 2009)

After HOW MANY YEARS, Batwoman gets a backstory.

It better make sense.


----------



## Castiel (May 23, 2009)

from what I can tell, Rucka/Williams III's Detective is "making up for lost time".  The first arc is one of those "could have taken place whenever" and the 2nd is her origin.  from the 3rd or so arc forward you can assume its current


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 24, 2009)

Soooooo read BFTC: Arkhum Asylum and the ending had me confused. I hope this is addressed soon.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 24, 2009)

New Rogues for Dick's Rogues Gallery, most likely.


----------



## Starstalker (May 24, 2009)

Hellz yea, Dick Grayson is the new Batman


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 24, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> New Rogues for Dick's Rogues Gallery, most likely.



The whole oker face is what threw me off.


----------



## Castiel (May 24, 2009)

When was the last time we got a new batch of Batvillains?


----------



## Bender (May 25, 2009)

LOL

I just thought of something crazy you guys

What if Bruce was the new Black Mask

However, there is still a stronger possibility that Jason is the new Black Mask I mean even in the dark it don't look like him but hey it's hard to tell Bruce from Matches Malone without a narrative. Shit, the reason we can't tell Jason the new Black Mask is because of the secret element behind all their disguises; hair gel.


----------



## Slice (May 25, 2009)

BftC 3 did not impress me much (story wise). Seriously who thought for only one second that it would end different?

I'm fine with Dick / Damian as Batman / Robin, lets see how long they keep it this way before they feel the need to have Bruce back.



And i'm still wondering who the new Black Mask is...



Blaze of Glory said:


> What if Bruce was the new Black Mask



No.

But maybe Hush found a new way to hide his face!


----------



## Castiel (May 25, 2009)

Hush will be contained to the Dini books, he's masquerading as "Bruce Wayne" and instead of blowing the whistle on his ID, he's content to live Bruce's life. I'm certain he has something planed, but that will be contained in Dini's books.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 26, 2009)

He wants to ruin Bruce, after all.


----------



## Castiel (May 26, 2009)

[LonE]​_school​_food​_punishment​_-​_Higashi​_no​_Eden​_ED​_Single​_-​_futuristic​_imagination​_[w​_scans]​_(mp3).rar

pwned


----------



## Petes12 (May 26, 2009)

error 404: not found


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 26, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> pwned





What? The banner?


----------



## Castiel (May 26, 2009)

damn blogger and their anti linking technoques

Here.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 26, 2009)

The pic won't expand.


----------



## Castiel (May 26, 2009)

click. on. it.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 26, 2009)

I. Did. It. Keeps. Going. To. The. Blog. 404. Screen.


----------



## Castiel (May 26, 2009)

sucks to be you


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 26, 2009)

For some reason it wouldn't show in ff, I had to use IE to view it. 

You mad cause I'm stylin on you...


----------



## tari101190 (May 26, 2009)

are you tryin to show this pic? dunno if i'm allowed to post it here though. if not, sorry.

"][/URL]


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 26, 2009)

I'm not sure why it wouldn't be allowed. Kilowog just didn't post it cause he's a douche.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 26, 2009)

Ha.

FUCKING PWNED.


----------



## tari101190 (May 26, 2009)

damn, that's pretty harsh.

'circus freak' and 'trash' etc

who edited that? it's edited right???


----------



## Mikaveli (May 26, 2009)

Thats fucking Wayne


----------



## Petes12 (May 26, 2009)

Not what was actually said, of course, but it's pretty funny.


----------



## Kameil (May 27, 2009)

Oh shit.  

Wayne rape goddamn!!!!


----------



## Castiel (May 27, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Gotham Gazette: Batman Alive #1 Preview_


----------



## Bender (May 27, 2009)

LOL Bullock...Bullock Bullock 



tari101190 said:


> are you tryin to show this pic? dunno if i'm allowed to post it here though. if not, sorry.
> 
> "][/URL]



LOL 

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN Wayne owned Jason 

Need a bandage for that third degree burn J-bitch?


----------



## Castiel (May 27, 2009)

*NRAMA: You're writing the three-issue mini-series Batman: Blackest Night, which the solicitations said includes the "Black Lantern Flying Graysons." Is this as creepy as it sounds?*

PT: There's some scary ass stuff in it. Batman and Robin have to deal with some serious issues as they face loved ones not only coming back from the dead, but trying to kill them. Gotham is in a bad way, and I'd like to say it's always darkest before the dawn, but that isn't always true. The horror that infects Gotham brings the Bat Family to the breaking point, and we're going to see them on the edge like we never have before. I'm getting to write a favorite character of mine, Deadman, so that alone is a blast.


----------



## Bender (May 27, 2009)

So we're going to see people like the Black glove break down Dick and Damian 

Sweet! pek pek pek


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 27, 2009)

Ha that reminds me of the GL spoof with kyle.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 28, 2009)

For a short period again, we can say that "no one stays dead in comics except 616 Uncle Ben".


----------



## Castiel (May 29, 2009)

Batman in Barcelona was awesome.  It had a nice consise plot that didn't take up too much space, had Batman being badass, and had Batman stabbing Croc with a fucking sword.

also Olmos draws an awesome Batman


----------



## Castiel (May 29, 2009)

Dan DiDio said:
			
		

> On top of that, we’re also doing a four-part miniseries for the back half of the year called World’s Finest where the changes in Batman’s world meet up with all the changes in Superman’s world. It won’t be a head-to-head Superman/Batman meeting, but everything that’s happening in those books right now will meet up.


**


----------



## Castiel (May 29, 2009)

Stock

JH Williams III interview


----------



## Castiel (May 29, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman & Robin #1 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 29, 2009)

That logo is pretty sweet, but I won't spoil myself this time. 

























MUST RESIST!!!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 29, 2009)

Huh. Sleek logo.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 29, 2009)

Impressive.

Do want.


----------



## Okkervil River (May 29, 2009)

New interview with Mike Marts about all the new books.

400p here

The Wall is interesting still.  But do they really expect us to think Tim is not Red Robin?  A bo-staff-using, former protegé of Batman who is also a master detective, and it's not Tim?


----------



## Castiel (May 30, 2009)

wait wait wait wait

Morriso nis picking up on the Red Hood stuff, not Winick?


why is Gordon up twice under "batman"? 

raccoon??????????? 


Cass, Steph AND Charlie are in the Batgirl cast?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 30, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> why is Gordon up twice under "batman"?



Clones.


----------



## Petes12 (May 30, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> wait wait wait wait
> 
> Morriso nis picking up on the Red Hood stuff, not Winick?
> 
> ...


I take it you didnt actually read the interview?


----------



## Slice (May 30, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Cass, Steph AND Charlie are in the Batgirl cast?



If this happens i presume my mind will explode because of an overload of win.


----------



## Castiel (May 30, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> I take it you didnt actually read the interview?



it was late so I just took a look at the pic and then went to bed


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 30, 2009)

It'll be a few months before Batgirl #1 is in my hands, under my hands.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 30, 2009)

What if Steph, Charlie and Cass all don the batgirl costume, some what akin to the Mystery of the Batwoman animated movie? I think that'd be kinda neat.


----------



## Okkervil River (May 30, 2009)

Is a "Battle for the Cowl" female version really necessary though?  It would just seem a little redundant.

Entirely possible though.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 30, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Is a "Battle for the Cowl" female version really necessary though?  It would just seem a little redundant.




phase 1: Watch Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman 
phase 2: ???
phase 3: edit your post so you won't seem like such a noob.


----------



## Okkervil River (May 30, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> phase 1: Watch Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman
> phase 2: ???
> phase 3: edit your post so you won't seem like such a noob.



None of that makes the concept any less redundant.


----------



## Petes12 (May 30, 2009)

He's not saying there'd be a 'battle for the cowl'. They would just all 3 pretend to be one batgirl working against crime. But that wont happen either. Oracle and friends are going to be the supporting cast I imagine. And of course it's possible that not ALL those characters will be really present in the book, and they're just trying to keep the new Batgirl identity a mystery.


----------



## Okkervil River (May 30, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> He's not saying there'd be a 'battle for the cowl'. They would just all 3 pretend to be one batgirl working against crime. But that wont happen either. Oracle and friends are going to be the supporting cast I imagine. And of course it's possible that not ALL those characters will be really present in the book, and they're just trying to keep the new Batgirl identity a mystery.



Well, my point was mainly in reference to a group of characters dressing up as the same hero, as happened in BFTC.  But whatever.

Anyway, if all those people are in it, I think it more likely that the Batgirl book will have a more Birds of Prey like feel, especially if Oracle is, indeed, in it.  But they are playing their cards close to their chest in regards to this book, so, yes, it's also entirely possible that all of those pictured under there are a ruse.  But considering that they didn't even bother to change the "Red Robin" pic to an actual pic of Red Robin and not just Tim in his Robin suit with the cowl from the end of his solo series, while at the same time claiming that Red Robin might not be him, I don't think they thought the wall through that much.


----------



## Castiel (May 30, 2009)

seriously though, having Cass and Charlie in the same book seems like win incarnate 

also I don't mind Steph that much


----------



## Petes12 (May 30, 2009)

Yeah I like the idea of all the batgirl 'characters' appearing in that book. Too bad they're putting it off till august or something like that.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 30, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> What if Steph, Charlie and Cass all don the batgirl costume, some what akin to the Mystery of the Batwoman animated movie? I think that'd be kinda neat.



As long as the writing is good.

But Beechen EVER gets the Batgirl character (whoever it is) again. . .


----------



## Okkervil River (May 31, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Yeah I like the idea of all the batgirl 'characters' appearing in that book. Too bad they're putting it off till august or something like that.



I just like the fact that it doesn't look like they plan to ignore very many of the relatively major Gotham heroes, excepting Huntress, I guess.  I was worried some of these character would be left in limbo after the book changes, particularly Cass, and seeing her under the Batgirl cast makes me happy.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 31, 2009)

Here's a question.

What happened to Onyx?


----------



## ghstwrld (May 31, 2009)

She's off being black at some undisclosed location.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2009)

updated preview with new pages






*Spoiler*: _Batman & Robin #1 preview_


----------



## mow (Jun 2, 2009)

i love the colouring and the use of sfx. this is gonna rock


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2009)

lol

pretty much everyone on the internet is ragging on this _because_ of the coloring, some folks are even boycotting it.


----------



## mow (Jun 2, 2009)

what's wrong about the colouring?  and even if the colouring was bad (which it is not) it's freaking morrison and quitely!

in the immortal words of ben yahtzee:


> Fans are clingy complaining dipshits who will never ever be greatful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill tremulous voices the happier you'll be for it.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2009)

people see Alex Sinclair as Didio's puppet, also they're pissed it's not Jamie Grant (colorist for We3 & ASS)


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 2, 2009)

> Fans are clingy complaining dipshits


This sums up OMD rather nicely.


----------



## Slice (Jun 2, 2009)

I cant see anything wrong with the colors either, but then again, Morrison and Quitely i would even read it if it was black and white


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> This sums up OMD rather nicely.



_slight_ difference between bitching about coloring and complaining about a drastic and sudden change done with no consideration for continuity, the fans, and logic in general


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 2, 2009)

Excessive whining is still excessive whining.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2009)

but they're whining about fucking COLORING


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 2, 2009)

Excessive whining is still excessive whining...


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2009)

COLORING ...


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

...

I just realized that Scarecrow is listed under "Batman" on the editor's board

this can only mean one thing....


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

What's it mean?!


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 3, 2009)

It can only mean that the new Batgirl is actually Scarecrow!!!  No, wait...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 3, 2009)

I wouldn't be surprised, with the previous shit they pulled on that role.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 3, 2009)

Really? They've fracked with Batgirl that badly? I don't know much about the character besides how they did a 180 on Cassandra with the whole druggy assassin mode thing.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

Bergelmir said:


> Really? They've fracked with Batgirl that badly?


No. CBG just loves to overexaggerate about the treatment of Batgirl


----------



## mow (Jun 3, 2009)

i sometimes actually hope that they'd royally f it up, becuase CBR's rage is both righteous and incredibly amusing XD


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 3, 2009)

Lol. It is quite entertaining, isn't it?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> What's it mean?!


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2009)

that explains nothing to me.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

Bergelmir said:


> mow said:
> 
> 
> > i sometimes actually hope that they'd royally f it up, becuase CBR's rage is both righteous and incredibly amusing XD
> ...


Amusing? Entertaining? No... 


Petes12 said:


> that explains nothing to me.



this.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

Winick's first run of Batman involved Scarecrow becoming a hulking "Scarebeast" whenever he gets angry.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

Ohhhhhhhhhh... Now I know what it means!


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

filler post.   .


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

Batman & Robin #1 was just pure 




also in the final page they had a "sneak peak" of the upcoming story arcs (kinda like in Booster Gold)


*Spoiler*: __ 



1). Damian walking out on Dick during the Robin initation and throwing away his cape

2). A new Red Hood, with a shadowy female sidekick

3). Dick fighting Batwoman in a volcano, while Bruce's "ghost" appears

4). Doctor Hurt holding the keys to Wayne Manor


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

after about 5 or so pages of Batman and Robin I got bored and started playing Minesweeper.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

First issue was 100% set up, next issue promises to have the action back.

Pyg scene at the end was just downright creepy 

Nice to see Damian calling Alfred by his surname instead of just "butler" and swearing at him



edit:
hey wait a minute...
 computers still have minesweeper? 

edit2: hey, what do you know, my PC has minesweeper

/plays

edit3: friend

I counted the numbers, why was there a mine there?!>!!?!?!??!>Q}|
a'lny; lfjlk dvnl;xc


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

Here

Frank Quitely interview


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> First issue was 100% set up, next issue promises to have the action back.
> 
> Pyg scene at the end was just downright creepy
> 
> Nice to see Damian calling Alfred by his surname instead of just "butler" and swearing at him



Spoilers?! I still haven't read past Frog man falling on the roof.  


Kilowog said:


> edit:
> hey wait a minute...
> computers still have minesweeper?
> 
> ...


Just. As. Planned.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

seriously though, Professor Pyg is just creepy.

I foresee he gets a long long life as a recurring Batman villain (not Joker recurring, but more like Hugo Strange, where he appears every few years then gets forgotten then he shows up again)


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

"Crime is doomed" for some reason I can't stop laughing at that.


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2009)

Speaking of which when are they gonna show that form of Scarecrow again?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

Winick is writing *Batman*, and Scarecrow will be appearing in it.

So, a few months maybe?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 3, 2009)

The awful truth regarding Pyg's doll army is crazy amazing.

As usual, Quietly's art is aces, especially the bits with the cut-away diagram and the headlights in Boss Frog's eyes.

More, please.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

> As usual, Quietly's art is aces


I like to describe Quitely's art to a terrible car accident. The end result is ugly but for some reason I can't look away.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 3, 2009)

More like a terribly awesome car accident.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 3, 2009)

Quietly's art doesn't really suit Batman like the fantastical All-Star Superman.

But not bad, for debut issue.


----------



## mow (Jun 3, 2009)

i love batm and robin 1i loved batman and robin 1 i loved batman and robin 1 i loved batman and robin 1 oh god i fucking loved batman and robin 1!!!

page 19.....:WOW


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2009)

I liked it

hopefully by the end I like it alot more


----------



## mow (Jun 3, 2009)




----------



## Slice (Jun 3, 2009)

I dont like the Batmobile (looks like out of an ACME box).

But i did like anything else - this has potential to become epic


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2009)

I thought he did a really good job on the art. I have no complaints there.


----------



## Slice (Jun 3, 2009)

hey i just realized that the megahippies of the blue lantern corps have a spy in gotham city


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> The awful truth regarding Pyg's doll army is crazy amazing.



we already knew they were people once, they said so in #666


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

here's the teaser image I mentioned



1). I'm guessing its Damian walking out on "The Oath" - Link removed
thing on floor looks like the melted wax from the first candle (referenced in final Nightwing issue)

2). RH and friend

3). By far the most interesting one.  I mean Batwoman vs Batman in a fucking Volcano, with Lava Bruce Ghost 

4). Hurt strikes again...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 3, 2009)

Red Hood is the only one that intrigues me.

The Batwoman one, I chalk up to hallucination until proven wrong then.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

> I chalk up to hallucination


this is Morrison we're talking about...


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 3, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> we already knew they were people once, they said so in #666



Yeah, but said people didn't include hairy misshapen men clothed in baby doll attire at that point.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Jun 3, 2009)

Batman and Robin #1. Can't say loved it forever so I'll just say it once. 

Loved it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Red Hood is the only one that intrigues me.
> 
> The Batwoman one, I chalk up to hallucination until proven wrong then.



I'm pretty sure it is not a hallucination. Who's doing the second arc of Batman and Robin again? And the third one is still an unknown right?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2009)

I think I like Morrison better when he isn't confined to the street

but this is still good


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

Taleran said:


> I think I like Morrison better when he isn't confined to the street
> 
> but this is still good



I like him better when he isn't making company wide status quo changes that, so far, haven't really changed anything. Final Crisis sucked.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2009)

Events only change as much as writers after the event want to utilize it nothing can change that


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Yeah, but said people didn't include hairy misshapen men clothed in baby doll attire at that point.


by people, I assumed he meant hobos.  many of which are misshapen men 


Petes12 said:


> I'm pretty sure it is not a hallucination. Who's doing the second arc of Batman and Robin again? And the third one is still an unknown right?



2nd arc - Phillip Tan (Final Crisis: Revelations, "Agent Orange" arc of Green Lantern)

3rd arc - Originally Doug Mahnke, but he's busy with GL.  Morrison has officially asked Frazer Irving


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

Taleran said:


> Events only change as much as writers after the event want to utilize it nothing can change that


because the writers agree with me.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

Johns disagrees with you


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 3, 2009)

Because Didio pays him more.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

nope, he's just a big 'ol Morrison fan


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2009)

I liked FC. It did kill the Martian Manhunter, rezzed Barry Allen and took Batman out of the picture for a long time. I don't think an event has to change the status quo to actually be a good story anyway.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

next week is Red Robin :WOW


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2009)

It's kinda weird but Batman is pretty much the Batman book I'm least interested in reading post-BftC, other than maybe Sirens and Outsiders. And that's not cus I have anything against Winnick, I just really really want to read Batman and Robin, Red Robin, Streets of Gotham, Detective Comics, and Batgirl. I'm pretty excited for all of those.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> It's kinda weird but Batman is pretty much the Batman book I'm least interested in reading post-BftC, other than maybe Sirens and Outsiders. And that's not cus I have anything against Winnick, I just really really want to read Batman and Robin, Red Robin, Streets of Gotham, Detective Comics, and Batgirl. I'm pretty excited for all of those.



Outsiders has Alfred being not only a badass, but a Batman level badass 

oh and Black Lightning


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2009)

Yeah, the character stuff is fine but the plot has been kinda shitty so far, you basically don't really know what's going on a lot of the time.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 3, 2009)

The Devil visiting Wayne Manor again?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 4, 2009)

...

I just noticed that Pyg's hideout is the exact same circus from Killing Joke, right down to the ghost train


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 4, 2009)

man, good eye. I didn't even notice the panel where the dolls were filing out of the circus in my first read.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 4, 2009)

NaruHina101


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 4, 2009)

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Castiel (Jun 4, 2009)

akina123

new Grant Morrison interview




Damian confirmed to be 10yo

Talia will be showing up from time to time.

Frazer Irving confirmed for 3rd story arc, which will deal with what happened to Bruce.  Will feature Knight and Squire prominently.

Doctor Hurt does indeed have a massive plan in the works

Phillip Tan doing the Red Hood arc.

Morrison has an "Original concept for the Joker's return"


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 4, 2009)

I wonder if it'll be a new Joker persona. . .

Morrison's Joker is FUCKING BADASS SCARY.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 4, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> have been greatly exaggerated.
> 
> new Grant Morrison interview
> 
> ...




No Mahnke?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 4, 2009)

He's booked on Blackest Night isn't he? I don't need to see him draw Dick and Damian anyway


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 5, 2009)

I wonder if 10-year old Damian will have MASSIVE cheekbones by Manhke. . .


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 5, 2009)

*Batman and Robin #4 cover revealed*






I bet the sidekick is that one dude's daughter


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 5, 2009)

Yeah. At the end of B&R #1.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 5, 2009)

Isn't Batman and Robin a 4 arc, 12 issue limited series? I remember reading that somewhere.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I wonder if 10-year old Damian will have MASSIVE cheekbones by Manhke. . .



Mankhe is a pro. He doesn't need cheekbones to make a kid's face incredibly unsettling. 

I'd take his faces any day over Finch's though.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> No Mahnke?



he's drawing Green Lantern on a bimonthly schedule





Petes12 said:


> I don't need to see him draw Dick and Damian anyway


he drew the Under The Hood arc, in which Dick appeared 


LIL_M0 said:


> I bet the sidekick is that one dude's daughter


the solicit for #2 says she escapes from Pyg, but it looks like she didn't get away unscatched




LIL_M0 said:


> Isn't Batman and Robin a 4 arc, 12 issue limited series? I remember reading that somewhere.


yes.  it will have 4 arcs.

but it's not "technically" a limited series, since Morrison says he's considering adding a 13th issue


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 5, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Mankhe is a pro. He doesn't need cheekbones to make a kid's face incredibly unsettling.
> 
> I'd take his faces any day over Finch's though.




Billy Batson looks like a precocious 12-year old.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 5, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Mankhe is a pro. He doesn't need cheekbones to make a kid's face incredibly unsettling.
> 
> I'd take his faces any day over Finch's though.



Kid passes then.

Doesn't escape the fact that virtually all his men have big distinct cheek bones and sunken-in cheeks.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Billy Batson looks like a precocious 12-year old.



That right there is a 12 year old p*d*p**** if I ever saw one.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 5, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> >> WATCH IT HERE <<
> 
> new Grant Morrison interview
> 
> ...



Dame is pretty badass for a ten year old


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 5, 2009)

posted by a dude (with terrible grammar skills ) on another forum.





> I bet that someone figure this out before I can did it.
> But I had to fight depression anyway.
> 
> I was killing my time navigating on Wikipedia and decide to check if there was any article on Morrison & Quitely’s “Batman & Robin” series. I found it out, and led me to an old interview about the series that Morrison gave to CBR.
> ...


the last "paragraph" was interesting.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 6, 2009)




----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 6, 2009)

Did he talk to himself?


----------



## mow (Jun 6, 2009)

> NRAMA: How does the flash-forward story from #666 tie into this?
> 
> GM: Considerably...
> 
> NRAMA: (mumbling) Lousy Scottish tease...



this had me loling so hard


----------



## Suigetsu (Jun 6, 2009)

so has bruno diaz revived already?
or he was never dead'?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 6, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> That right there is a 12 year old p*d*p**** if I ever saw one.



all 12 years olds are "pedophiles".


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 8, 2009)

Forbes





These covers are really lame.


----------



## mow (Jun 8, 2009)

maybe cause you're envisioning her wearing the suit? cause i sure as hell was imagining it the other way around, and it's not lame. at all

>_>


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 8, 2009)

The covers below are better in all regards, including the accentuation Batgirl's charm:


Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed



The pic upthread is totally devoid of charisma and movement.


----------



## mow (Jun 8, 2009)

your links lead me to Disney online


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 8, 2009)

Fixed.


----------



## mow (Jun 8, 2009)

cover 1, 2 and 4 are fucking gorgeous man. who did the pencils for them?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 8, 2009)

Marcos Martin


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2009)

he also drew Doctor Strange: The Oath, which was fantastic


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2009)

also these covers pretty much confirm its not Cass.  Noto (the cover artist) worked on a Cass' series and that is not how he drew her or how she would pose.

but we all knew it was gonna be Steph by now


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 8, 2009)

Oh great. This is what we need.

More activity among the Barbara Gordon fans.

I have nothing against them (I do sympathize with their plight), but they really have the unfortunate tendency to count eggs before they hatch.

They did it with the Silver Age Batgirl logo, and screamed bloody hell when a new Batgirl is coming up.

Now with Babs' old costume, I'm expecting riots. . .


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2009)

well BOTH Cass (a _very_ humorous issue in her ongoing) and Charlie (her first appearance) have worn Babs' original Batgirl outfit, so it would make sense for Steph to try it on.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 8, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> well BOTH Cass (a _very_ humorous awesome issue in her ongoing) and Charlie (her first appearance she only got to wear a cheap cowl that she made herself.) have worn Babs' original Batgirl outfit, so it would make sense for Steph doesn't deserve to try it on.



Fix'd


----------



## Slice (Jun 8, 2009)

I'm still rooting for Cass. Best thing (for me) would probably be to have both Cass and Steph be batgirl with Oracle leading the operations, effectively merging BoP and Batgirl. (There is no such thing as "too much cute girls" in one comic book)



also this:



mow said:


> maybe cause you're envisioning her wearing the suit? cause i sure as hell was imagining it the other way around, and it's not lame. at all


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2009)

you seem to have forgotten about *Gotham City Sirens*


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #687 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 8, 2009)

I hate Ed Benes. Every time he draws a hero in costume, it looks less like a costume and more like skin.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 8, 2009)

DC is changing their Batman site. 
The top link used to feature Batman (the book) and now, who knows... probably Batman and Robin.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2009)

yeah, I'm glad he's just doing one issue.  Then we get Bagley and Daniel


----------



## Okkervil River (Jun 8, 2009)

Winick's Batman doesn't look that bad so far.  Those few pages look pretty good, at least.

There's a Red Robin preview up at IGN too: Daron

I like the idea of a Bat character traveling around the world, and I like Tim, so I'm down for this book too.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 8, 2009)

If you took a certain panel out of context, wipe out the text in the text bubbles. . .


----------



## mow (Jun 9, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> *Oh great. This is what we need.
> 
> More activity among the Barbara Gordon fans.*
> 
> ...



that's so fucking rich coming from you mate .


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2009)

They do basically have the same problem Cassandra Cain fans have, except that DC did something cool with Oracle. And that the 'Babs as Batgirl' fans are complete morons for all sorts of reasons.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 9, 2009)

mow said:


> that's so fucking rich coming from you mate .



Myself, I'm a fan of Cassandra Cain. While she WAS Batgirl, she can move beyond the role. In fact, she actually had an alternate hero identity previously.

Cassandra Cain DOESN'T have to be Batgirl. She just have to be herself.

My main gripe (as with the rest of the Cass-Cult) is that her very character is SO FUCKING POORLY HANDLED by one FUCKING IDIOT.

Which is fucking sad, because I can write her. I have several story pitches for her character alone.



Petes12 said:


> They do basically have the same problem Cassandra Cain fans have, except that DC did something cool with Oracle. And that the 'Babs as Batgirl' fans are complete morons for all sorts of reasons.



Barbara Gordon has fans that want her to resume the Batgirl mantle.

They really don't like the CC fans for "stealing the mantle from her".


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: The Streets of Gotham #1 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I know this was linked, but its Yost so I'm posting it anyway


Lies, you're just an attention whore...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I wanted to post it so I could link it to Hellion :ho


More lies, you could've just given Hellion the IGN link...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Kilowog said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted to post it so I could link it to Hellion :ho
> ...


It's nice to know that you find comfort in compounding lies...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> certain people on certain forums have said it to be too much trouble to individually click every single  picture to make it bigger, and prefer it all readable on the forum.  1 link >>> more than 1


Efforts in trying to justify being a lying attention whore...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> **  its annoying**


Harsh truths usually are...


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2009)

Cool cool

I got me a wishlist 

Red Robin

and

Batman Gotham Streets


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 9, 2009)

Harley Quinn and Paul Dini?

I'm so there.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> *Harsh truths *usually are...



how was that either harsh or the truth?


----------



## Slice (Jun 9, 2009)

Not a big fan of the art, but as with all new Batman titles i will read it just to see how good they handle the "World without Bruce Wayne".

Also Harley is win!


----------



## Graham Aker (Jun 9, 2009)

Streets of Gotham


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 10, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> They really don't like the CC fans for "stealing the mantle from her".



That's one of the reasons they're complete morons.

Also, M0 shut up I love Kilowog's previews.  So much better than opening every ign page in a new tab. They load kinda slow too.


----------



## Bender (Jun 10, 2009)

Call me crazy but Harley is starting to look sexy


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 10, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Call me crazy but Harley is *starting *to look sexy


I'm sorry what?


----------



## Lucaniel (Jun 10, 2009)

Harley pek

Though out of the rogues, Catwoman and Poison Ivy will always be my favourites.

/included Ivy 'cause Catwoman isn't really a rogue


----------



## lucky (Jun 10, 2009)

serious?  harley + ivy = win.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I hate Ed Benes. Every time he draws a hero in costume, it looks less like a costume and more like skin.



I really like how Benes draws Alfred though.


----------



## mow (Jun 10, 2009)

man, that panel with Alfred when supes asks him if he is alright...wow i almost bawled my eyes out with tears. fuckign amazing writing. this is so much of a better conclusion to BoTC than BoTC itself


----------



## Castiel (Jun 10, 2009)

Booster Gold - Good issue.  Did a good job continuing the plot and having Booster react to Bruce's death.  Good use of Dick and setting up the Teen Titans arc

Batman - Good issue.  effectively bridged BftC and Batman & Robin well, makes me wonder why this was released after B&R #1.
also "GET IN THE DAMN CAR" 

Red Robin - great first issue.  I feel bad for Tim, but am really looking forward to see how this goes


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2009)

I wonder how long RR will last. I'm betting a year. There's only so many teen angst-y stories that can come out Tim's situation.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 10, 2009)

Yost said on CBR's forums that he has 13 issues outlined, but has a few ideas on making it last a bit longer, depending on how the series is received.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2009)

I guess he'll smile when he finds out that his friends have been cloned... and somehow have their memories intact. Man, that's dumb.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 10, 2009)

For a guy whose mantle was created to lighten the mood, he sure is a downer

And Damian is winning quote of the week so far with his "You're still on the team Drake. I think the Batgirl suit is available"


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 10, 2009)

Eh. Not bad for Red Robin #1. . .

But Harley has my fucking attention. One of my favourite fiction characters.

I'd say comic book BUT SHE CAME FROM THE ANIMATED SERIES, duh.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 10, 2009)

LOL Czechoslovakia.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 10, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> LOL Czechoslovakia.



Is it bad that until this issue I thought Prague was in Italy?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 10, 2009)

Well, at least you thought it was located in a country that actually exists.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 10, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Well, at least you thought it was located within a country that actually exists.



I'm confused


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2009)

Czechoslovakia existed... until the 90's and then it didn't.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 10, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Czechoslovakia existed... until the 90's and then it didn't.



It got taken over by Russia didn't it?


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 10, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Czechoslovakia existed... until the 90's and then it didn't.





KingOfShippers said:


> It got taken over by Russia didn't it?



Its times like this a being a dropout works against me


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 10, 2009)

Czechoslovakia was dissolved back in 1992, and its territory became the Slovak Republic (Slovakia) and the Czech Republic (Czechia).


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2009)

KingOfShippers said:


> It got taken over by Russia didn't it?



No, it split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia. 

*EDIT
What Ghstwrld said.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 10, 2009)

Fuck all yall with ya fancy ass history classes that you were awake during and shit


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2009)

History Classes? Man I remember my teacher being pissed cause our books were outdated. I saw it on the news in homeroom.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 10, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> History Classes? Man I remember my teacher being pissed cause our books were outdated. I saw it on the news in homeroom.



**


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 10, 2009)

Why does Tim's quest to find Bruce Wayne mean he'll have to 'cross lines'? Why does he think Bruce is still alive despite the skeleton? And why would Bruce be hiding in Madrid? 

Answer: Tim is out of his fucking mind.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 10, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Why does Tim's quest to find Bruce Wayne mean he'll have to 'cross lines'? Why does he think Bruce is still alive despite the skeleton? And why would Bruce be hiding in Madrid?
> 
> Answer: Tim is out of his fucking mind.



I think it'll be glorious if come to find out he's going to these cites because there are others named Bruce Wayne living there

I swear, if they make him a psycho, oh it'll be glorious.

Tim: Bruce?! It's you isn't it!

Random Man:

Tim: I missed you! Love me and stuff!!!

Random Guy

Tim: WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME!?!?!?*beats man to death with Bo*


----------



## neodragzero (Jun 10, 2009)

So, has anyone read Judd Winick's Batman? I at least want a warning or two before I dare open the book...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> So, has anyone read Judd Winick's Batman? I at least want a warning or two before I dare open the book...



Read it. It's good. 

*EDIT*
No sarcasm btw. I really enjoyed this book.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 10, 2009)

It wasn't bad.


----------



## neodragzero (Jun 11, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Read it. It's good.
> 
> *EDIT*
> No sarcasm btw. I really enjoyed this book.





Petes12 said:


> It wasn't bad.



If you guys are messing with me, I will utterly destroy you both.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 11, 2009)

it was a great first issue.

Winick writes a better Dick than Morrison, also a great Alfred.  Morrison writes a better Damian though.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 11, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Why does Tim's quest to find Bruce Wayne mean he'll have to 'cross lines'? Why does he think Bruce is still alive despite the skeleton? And why would Bruce be hiding in Madrid?
> 
> Answer: Tim is out of his fucking mind.



he added *knives *to his bo staff


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 11, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> it was a great first issue.
> 
> Winick writes a better Dick than Morrison, also a great Alfred.  His Damian sucks ass though.



If by "sucks ass" you mean "is hilariously awesome" then yeah, Damian sucks ass.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> it was a great first issue.
> 
> Winick writes a better Dick than Morrison, also a great Alfred.  Morrison writes a better Damian though.



I don't know if he writes him better so much as he seized on the opportunity to explore Dick's grief, which is something Morrison basically wanted to skip over so he could go right into his crazy creepy 60s show homage thing.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 11, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> So, has anyone read Judd Winick's Batman? I at least want a warning or two before I dare open the book...



It's alright.

FINALLY from Winnick.


----------



## Bender (Jun 11, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Why does Tim's quest to find Bruce Wayne mean he'll have to 'cross lines'? Why does he think Bruce is still alive despite the skeleton? And why would Bruce be hiding in Madrid?
> 
> Answer: Tim is out of his fucking mind.



Tis the price for wearing a costume that belonged to Jason Todd 

Damian was right he should wear the Batgirl costume


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 11, 2009)

Some SICK readers wouldn't mind the cross-dressing.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 11, 2009)

Discuss here

Greg Rucka talks Batwoman


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 11, 2009)

I rather read the actual thing.

After these years, FIN-FUCKING-ALLY.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 11, 2009)

CAPS LOCK; ITS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL


----------



## Castiel (Jun 11, 2009)

Link

another short Frank Quitely interview


----------



## Bender (Jun 11, 2009)

I finally got the Red Robin comic 

LOL @ Tim he says he isn't losing his mind and yet he believes 

that Batman isn't dead    

Someone should stick Batman's charred remains in front of him


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 11, 2009)

Yost is writing two DC ongoings. He better not be slipping on his X-Foce duties.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 12, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I finally got the Red Robin comic
> 
> LOL @ Tim he says he isn't losing his mind and yet he believes
> 
> ...



So damn true.

But it's Tim, detective extraordinaire.


----------



## Bender (Jun 12, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> So damn true.
> 
> But it's Tim, detective extraordinaire.



I never had read Tim Drake comics so tell me how much of an ace detective is he. 

The only kind of mysteries I see him solving are the ones on Blues Clues


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 12, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken, Tim correctly deduced Batman and Robin's identities when he was nine years old.


----------



## Bender (Jun 12, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Tim correctly deduced Batman and Robin's identities when he was nine years old.



YAAAAAAAWN...

So did Bane's brainless ass self as well as the Riddler and possibly Vicki Vale


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2009)

His biggest strength is how good a detective he is. He is very smart. He's just also gone a little crazy


----------



## Castiel (Jun 12, 2009)

Bane isn't brainless *at all*.  He's super intelligent.  Same goes with Riddler.  The two of them are likely Batman's most intelligent enemies.

Bane always loses because he's hotheaded, and Riddler's ambition is far more than his actual means allow him.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 12, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> YAAAAAAAWN...
> 
> So did Bane's brainless ass self as well as the Riddler and possibly Vicki Vale




He figured it out by himself with no training when he was *nine*.   

Plus...



> His naturally high intellect allows him to excel in computer science and more importantly as a skilled detective. His intellect is apparently so impressive that Batman has claimed to Alfred that Tim is potentially smarter than he is. His ability to deduce the secret identities of superheroes on his own has been used to underscore his skill. Among the identities used in this way are the Batman, both of his predecessors as Robin, the Huntress, Impulse, Captain Marvel and even the Flash, after Wally West's secret identity was wiped from the minds of the world by Hal Jordan using the powers as The Spectre.


----------



## Bender (Jun 12, 2009)

Oh shit..... 

Now I feel like a total douche


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 12, 2009)

Even in the TT comics, it's been commented that Tim may eventually surpass Batman as a detective and in smarts.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2009)

From the last issue of Robin, after RIP but before FC:

*Spoiler*: __ 






Later...


----------



## Castiel (Jun 12, 2009)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 12, 2009)

> Mr. Zsasz


??? 

*goes to wiki*





Chaos Ghost said:


> I think it'll be glorious if come to find out he's going to these cites because there are others named Bruce Wayne living there
> 
> I swear, if they make him a psycho, oh it'll be glorious.
> 
> ...


:rofl


----------



## Castiel (Jun 12, 2009)

com'n he was Batman Begins


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 12, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> com'n he was Batman Begins



I didn't watch the film close enough to note obscure background characters.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 12, 2009)

>_>

anyways Zsasz is cool.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 12, 2009)

Kilowog said:


>





LIL_M0 said:


> I didn't watch the film close enough to note obscure background characters.



Oh come on, he was in one of the best scenes in the movie


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 12, 2009)

The best scenes of the movie involve Bruce Waynes ninja training. The rest was, well... I can't even remember. Ra's blew up the sewers with a monorail and the Scarecrow was homosexual.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 12, 2009)

He's the guy who puts a check mark on his skin every time he kills someone. I hadnt noticed he was in Batman Begins either though till I read it online somewhere.


----------



## Bender (Jun 12, 2009)

KICKASS!

Dick and Tim are going head to head


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 12, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> KICKASS!
> 
> Dick and Tim are going head to head



I wonder who was in teh Batmobile


*Spoiler*: __ 



BRUCE!?!?!?!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 12, 2009)

Maybe Damian. AGAIN.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 13, 2009)

> When DC first announced that they were going to “kill” Bruce Wayne and that, while he was “dead,” someone new would take over as Batman, I wasn’t exactly excited about the prospect. In fact, I was…well, what’s the opposite of excited? “Apathetic” doesn’t really cover it, as it’s too neutral, and yet I wasn’t really anxious either. My exact emotional state was akin to excitement, only a bad kind of excitement. Like, excitement with a black goatee.


The Official Narusaku/SasuSaku/Naruhina Debate Thread! (MANGA MUST BE TAGGED)


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 13, 2009)

How could you leave out the last line of that paragraph?

"Excitement that, if it touched the normal kind, would cause a huge explosion."


----------



## mow (Jun 13, 2009)

5.) Dick Grayson no longer has the mullet he had during “Prodigal.” I don’t think the importannce of this factor can be stressed enough.

xD


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 13, 2009)

**[YOUTUBE]uoS77WV3CR0[/YOUTUBE]​


----------



## Graham Aker (Jun 14, 2009)

I don't think it's very wise to be fighting in front of a moving vehicle driven by a 12 year old psychopath.

That Zsasz cover is wicked though.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 14, 2009)

mow said:


> 5.) Dick Grayson no longer has the mullet he had during ?Prodigal.? I don?t think the importannce of this factor can be stressed enough.
> 
> xD



I'd give them that.

And HA HA to the Blackest Night: Batman #2 cover.

"How do we kill the dead?"

"BURN THEM."


----------



## Bender (Jun 14, 2009)

When are we going to get the preview for Gotham Sirens 

It's coming out this week


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 15, 2009)

According to DC, it comes out the last week of June. 
image



Harley's booty is so shiny.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 15, 2009)

next week:

Outsiders + Streets of Gotham

week after

Detective + Sirens


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 15, 2009)

​


> *VIGILANTE #10
> Written by Marv Wolfman
> Pencils by Rick Leonardi & John Stanisci
> Cover by Walter Simonson*
> ...


 Wolfram is running out of angles. He just needs to let the character die... die horribly.


----------



## shit (Jun 15, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Maybe Damian. AGAIN.



It's more his batmobile than anyone else's. 

Just read Batman and Robin. PYG!!!  That guy's so freaky!!! EWWWW!!!!

That's a batman villain I can get behind. Unlike, say, Hush.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2009)

Dini made Hush enjoyable.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 15, 2009)

filler post


----------



## Castiel (Jun 15, 2009)

> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #4
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art by Philip Tan & Jonathan Glapion
> Cover by Frank Quitely
> ...









> *DETECTIVE COMICS #857
> Written by Greg Rucka
> Art by JH Williams III; co-feature art by Cully Hamner
> Cover by JH Williams III*
> ...









> *BATGIRL #2
> Written by Bryan Q. Miller
> Art by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott
> Cover by Phil Noto*
> ...









> *BATMAN #690
> Written by Judd Winick
> Art by Mark Bagley & Rob Hunter
> Cover by Tony Daniel*
> ...









> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #4
> Written by Paul Dini; co-feature written by Marc Andreyko
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs; co-feature art by Jeremy Haun
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen*
> ...









> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #4
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art and cover by Guillem March*
> Bruce Wayne has always been considered the quintessential ladies’ man. But he’s never faced ladies quite like this before! Has Gotham City’s playboy prince finally met his match?
> On sale September 30 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US









> *OUTSIDERS #22
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Fernando Pasarin
> Cover by Tom Mandrake*
> ...









> *RED ROBIN #4
> Written by Christopher Yost
> Art by Ramon Bachs
> Cover by Francis Manapul*
> ...









> *BLACKEST NIGHT: BATMAN #2
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Adrian Syaf & John Dell
> Cover by Andy Kubert
> ...


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 15, 2009)

I want all of that!

I gotta get caught back up with Outsiders


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2009)

Who wants to bet the third Batgirl cover is the original bette kane costume? 

Then again, maybe not since a picture of a girl with her face hidden wearing a red miniskirt and a green cape is not exactly exciting sounding.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> filler post


I've been meaning to ask this for a while now Kilowog, what's with these filler posts?


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 15, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I've been meaning to ask this for a while now Kilowog, what's with these filler posts?



Prolly does so that big post like his last one will end up on a new page


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 15, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Who wants to bet the third Batgirl cover is the original bette kane costume?
> 
> Then again, maybe not since a picture of a girl with her face hidden wearing a red miniskirt and a green cape is not exactly exciting sounding.



I don't know. Most likely a possibility here.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 15, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Prolly does so that big post like his last one will end up on a new page



Pretty much this.  A lot of people are lazy and don't backread, so this is insurance against that. 










Oh and I have certain attention whore tendencies


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Chaos Ghost said:
> 
> 
> > Prolly does so that big post like his last one will end up on a new page
> ...


Oh, ok. 


Kilowog said:


> A lot of people are lazy and don't backread, so this is insurance against that.


You know if you click the "  " symbol next to the tread topic it starts you off on the page/post that you last read before leaving the thread or logging off. 



Kilowog said:


> Oh and I have certain attention whore tendencies


called it, in this very thread.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2009)

I actually had no idea you could do that, I always went to the last page and then backtracked to where I was.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 15, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> I actually had no idea you could do that, I always went to the last page and then backtracked to where I was.



I didn't figure it out until earlier today.


----------



## Bender (Jun 15, 2009)

The Red Hood and Vigilante comics need to die in a fiery pit 

The new Red Hood looks like a  gay cheap imitation of The Punisher and Vigilante is getting very old. Either you make him look better or you get rid of him because I'm seriously getting tired of his wack-ass self. He's not as good as he was when he was in the Batman Gotham Underground series  or when he squared off against Nightwing.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2009)

So, you haven't even read anything of this new red hood character, who is being created by grant morrison in his zany new batman comic and you're dismissing it out of hand because you don't like the fact that he looks a little goofy despite this being a series that is intentionally a little goofy. 

I'm trying to think of a civil way to adequately express my opinion of you.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 15, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> So, you haven't even read anything of this new red hood character, who is being created by grant morrison in his zany new batman comic and you're dismissing it out of hand because you don't like the fact that he looks a little goofy despite this being a series that is intentionally a little goofy.
> 
> I'm trying to think of a civil way to adequately express my opinion of you.



I LOLed pretty hard.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 16, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Outsiders #19 preview_


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 16, 2009)

The variant cover is lacking Alfred 

also is it just me or were those insiders intended to be naked again but the colorist decided they needed clothes after all


----------



## Castiel (Jun 16, 2009)

Link removed

Yost/Bachs interview about Red Robin


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 16, 2009)

I was wondering if the Vandal Savage angle was red herring. I'm glad to see him, now he can die get beaten up.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 16, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> The variant cover is lacking Alfred



He takes up a whole cover. He doesn't share with THOSE people.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Streets of Gothaam was pretty good. I wonder if this was what Morrison was going for with that fail of a failure Final Crisis "channel changing" experiment...


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 17, 2009)

Huh. Streets of Gotham really doesn't seem to push the premise too hard does it? I mean, it's narrated by characters other than Batman and Robin, but they're characters who have such immediate contact with the heroes that it really just reads like another issue of Dini's Detective Comics. Not that that's a bad thing.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 17, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Huh. Streets of Gotham really doesn't seem to push the premise too hard does it? I mean, *it's narrated by characters other than Batman and Robin, but they're characters who have such immediate contact with the heroes *that it really just reads like another issue of Dini's Detective Comics. Not that that's a bad thing.



Except for the prostitute. Unless she was in Dini's DC as well? 
I've only read his RIP stuff.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 17, 2009)

Outsiders and Streets of Gotham were awesome.

that is all.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 17, 2009)

also it looks like Batgirl is getting a new costume, all these covers seem to be of her "trying on" the previous costumes.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 17, 2009)

Yeah, actually, I saw something about the artist twittering that he'd finished designs for the new Batgirl costume. Apparently he's pretty proud of the design.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 17, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Gotham City Sirens #1 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Jun 18, 2009)

oh and just a random continuity note for those wondering what's up with Riddler and Poison Ivy.

After the first (and crappy) Hush Returns arc, Riddler goes into hiding after Hush beats the shit out of him.  He decides to hide out in the park, where he runs into Ivy who attacks him for trespassing on her territory.  Riddler then gets beat up by Ivy in the most humiliating and emasculating fight ever. (Detective Comics #797-799)


----------



## Bender (Jun 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> oh and just a random continuity note for those wondering what's up with Riddler and Poison Ivy.
> 
> After the first (and crappy) Hush Returns arc, Riddler goes into hiding after Hush beats the shit out of him.  He decides to hide out in the park, where he runs into Ivy who attacks him for trespassing on her territory.  Riddler then gets beat up by Ivy in the most humiliating and emasculating fight ever. (Detective Comics #797-799)



Mind describing the humiliating way she defeated him. 

*may never find the comic book issue of it *


----------



## Castiel (Jun 18, 2009)

She beats him up.  With her bare hands, easily.


----------



## Bender (Jun 18, 2009)

On another note Poison Ivy is back to being a fine kind bitch 

Plz stay dis way Ivy


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 18, 2009)

About time.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> She beats him up.  With her bare hands, easily.



Think this needs to be posted in the OWN3D thread if it hasn't already.


----------



## Bender (Jun 18, 2009)

Something tells me the Sirens are gonna be something like Charlies Angels 

With the Riddler directing their missions


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Jun 18, 2009)

That wasn't a fight but more of a domination. I really felt sad for the Riddler when I read that and I thought "Welp, I guess he won't be seen the same again after this" and so far that's come true. He needs to do something to redeem himself. 

It was just pathetic.


----------



## Bender (Jun 18, 2009)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> That wasn't a fight but more of a domination. I really felt sad for the Riddler when I read that and I thought "Welp, I guess he won't be seen the same again after this" and so far that's come true. He needs to do something to redeem himself.
> 
> It was just pathetic.



That's the thing that pisses me off about Ivy she doesn't know forgiveness


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 19, 2009)

She somewhat learned. . . and then writers reverted her back.

She's suppose to be more one-dimensional than that. "Suppose to" being the key words.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 22, 2009)




----------



## Graham Aker (Jun 22, 2009)

Sirens needs a better colourist. Like Alex Sinclair.


----------



## Bender (Jun 22, 2009)

Tim: *Looking at map for other areas around the globe to go search for Bruce* 

(Connor appears from behind)

Connor: Tiiiiim 

Tim: Hmmmm maybe I should check Africa that's where Dave Chapelle when we thought he was dead... 

Connor: TIIIIIM! Turn around and look at me or I swear to @#$%ing god I will haunt your sorry ass until wet yourself while you're in bed sleeping with a teddy bear! 

Tim: Oh @#$%! Connor! 

Tim: *Long monologue on how believing Connor is before means he's insane*

Connor: So what's up man? How you been doing? *looks at Red Robin costume lying on the bed* Why you wearing the costume of the douchebag who kicked your ass? 

Tim: A lot has happened you wouldn't understand.

Connor: You're looking for Bruce aren't you?

Tim: Believing is the only thing that'll keep me living. I know he is!

Connor: But Ti-

Tim: Dammit Connor he's alive! 

Connor: But dude he's right here

Tim: 

Bruce: Hi Tim I'm dead!  Oh and by the way you're insane


----------



## Castiel (Jun 22, 2009)

What are the odds of Tim seeing Conner alive will be the final straw for Tim's sanity?


----------



## Bender (Jun 22, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> What are the odds of Tim seeing Conner alive will be the final straw for Tim's sanity?



VERY 

VERY

High


----------



## Castiel (Jun 23, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman & Robin #2 preview_ 





Flashback


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 23, 2009)

Can't fucking wait.


----------



## mow (Jun 24, 2009)

Quitely's art went a million times plus between this issue and the first one. so hyped


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2009)

It looks outstanding yeah. And it's not like issue 1 was bad either.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 24, 2009)

So good.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 24, 2009)

His best work, IMO is We3.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 24, 2009)

Well that didn't take long


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 24, 2009)

Better than it looked with Catwoman.  Even though she said they should be apart, can yo really blame any girl wanting to hook up with Batman?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2009)

Another artist fails to properly render the new Batman costume.


----------



## Bender (Jun 24, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Well that didn't take long



And here I thought he said that he didn't love her


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 24, 2009)

New love-triangle with Batman again.

And since it's Dick Grayson in the role, Batman will give PIMP a whole new meaning.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2009)

Sirens really disappointed me.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 24, 2009)

Eh. Sirens is alright.


----------



## Bender (Jun 24, 2009)

And now that Catwoman is such a weak kitty and being subjected to Poison Ivy/Harley Quinn's drug I guess that''s 10 people that know Bruce Wayne was Batman


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2009)

They don't know yet and I doubt they'll find out.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 24, 2009)

Detective was pretty good.  lol at the last page.  Question backup started out promising

haven't gotten to Sirens yet


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 25, 2009)

Detective Comics rocked.

Not so much for the Batwoman character, but interesting script and panel-layout.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2009)

It was really great on all levels. A pretty good intro to the character and what makes her different without doing an origin story or using exposition. Great art and panel layout. Lulzy last page. Doesn't get much better than that.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 25, 2009)

calling it now

Kate is a victim of "Don't Ask Don't Tell"


----------



## Castiel (Jun 25, 2009)




----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jun 25, 2009)

Argh...gentlemen, remember what happened when bane went to town of Batmans Spine, was had a new batman for a wille, and what happened after that...Bruce came back and literally kicked the other batman out of town, i think we are looking at the same scenario...argh


----------



## lucky (Jun 25, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Well that didn't take long



of course!  why would he go for the cripple who can't do half the kamasutra? 


-j0e
(tasteless, i know.)


----------



## Castiel (Jun 25, 2009)

> Bruce came back and literally kicked the other batman out of town, i think we are looking at the same scenario...argh


no its not.

Azbats was a nutcase who killed people


----------



## Z (Jun 25, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Well that didn't take long



Who is that woman? I can't tell.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 25, 2009)

Starfire from Titans.

Babs' rival to Dick's affections.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2009)

Am I the only one who thinks Bagley draws some really weird and awkward action shots? I like his art for the most part but man he does some strange action poses.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2009)

Ark 15.0 said:


> Argh...gentlemen, remember what happened when bane went to town of Batmans Spine, was had a new batman for a wille, and what happened after that...Bruce came back and literally kicked the other batman out of town, i think we are looking at the same scenario...argh



basic concept is similar, everything else is completely different. And stop with that argh crap.


----------



## mow (Jun 26, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> And stop with that argh crap.



thank you.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 26, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Bagley draws some really weird and awkward action shots? I like his art for the most part but man he does some strange action poses.



You're not the only one.


----------



## Z (Jun 26, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Starfire from Titans.
> 
> Babs' rival to Dick's affections.



Which comic is this in?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 26, 2009)

Rucka must have been in Texas or something, cause he did TWO Batwoman interviews with Dallas papers






Echizen Ryoma said:


> Which comic is this in?



I'm guessing this arc



It's gonna be written by Chris Yost, so expect it be good.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 26, 2009)

You...don't know who starfire is?  YOu don't know who the teen titans are?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 26, 2009)

To be fair tv show Starfire looks a bit different from comics Starfire


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 26, 2009)

I know right.  You can fap to the comic w/o going to jail.


----------



## Z (Jun 26, 2009)

Agmaster said:


> You...don't know who starfire is?  YOu don't know who the teen titans are?



I do, I just didn't recognize her.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 26, 2009)

> I know right. You can fap to the comic w/o going to jail.


I was mainly talking about the hair and eyes, and her chest, but yeah that too


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 26, 2009)

The leg got me.


----------



## shit (Jun 26, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Bagley draws some really weird and awkward action shots? I like his art for the most part but man he does some strange action poses.



You're not alone. That pose on the card table looks weird. Like he's about to fall over as soon as the picture's taken.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 26, 2009)

You can tell its her because apparently now her hair is on fire.


----------



## Z (Jun 26, 2009)

Who else is going to be "romantically involved" with Batman I wonder?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 27, 2009)

It's Dick Grayson.

It'd be better to ask "who ISN'T going to be romantically involved with him".


----------



## Z (Jun 27, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> It's Dick Grayson.


I am fully aware of that. 



> It'd be better to ask "who ISN'T going to be romantically involved with him".


----------



## Graham Aker (Jun 27, 2009)

DickXStarfire.

Babs can just bring in the pizza.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 27, 2009)

Or the bedroom receptionist.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 27, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> It's Dick Grayson.
> 
> It'd be better to ask "who ISN'T going to be romantically involved with him".



Huntress? wait scratch that...

Catwoman...I Hope.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 27, 2009)

we already had an issue where Catwoman tried to seduce Dick.  



She was trying to make Bruce jealous and when Dick point it out she slugged him


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 27, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> we already had an issue where Catwoman tried to seduce Dick.
> 
> 
> 
> She was trying to make Bruce jealous and when Dick point it out she slugged him



Well the only other person I can think of then is Zatanna.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 27, 2009)

Nah. She's being written by Dini, and we all know what that means.


----------



## Z (Jun 27, 2009)

There would probably be seduce attempts in Sirens.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 27, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Nah. She's being written by Dini, and we all know what that means.



What does it mean?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 27, 2009)

Zee only has eyes for Bruce, so as long she's under Dini.


----------



## Z (Jun 27, 2009)

There are still many other women besides Zatanna.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 28, 2009)

I hate damien so much.


----------



## Bender (Jun 28, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> There would probably be seduce attempts in Sirens.



Well according to the synopsis for the Sirens issue it's probz gonna be the other way around.  Since Bruce Wayne is "alive" again he's gonna be trying to down with one of the Sirens.  Plz try doin poison Ivy Bruce plz plz


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 28, 2009)

typhoon72 said:


> I hate damien so much.



Eh. He's grown on me now. I was surprised at this restraint in Batman & Robin.

He's more tolerable than SBP.


----------



## Z (Jun 28, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Well according to the synopsis for the Sirens issue it's probz gonna be the other way around.  Since Bruce Wayne is "alive" again he's gonna be trying to down with one of the Sirens.  Plz try doin poison Ivy Bruce plz plz




But isn't that Bruce Wayne really Hush?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 1, 2009)

little contribution


----------



## Castiel (Jul 1, 2009)

that Rolling Stones song

morrison video interview.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 1, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> that Rolling Stones song





> Perhaps Rucka?s writing is usually this sturdy and it took this particular art team to get me to pay attention. Perhaps not. Either way the issue clicked like a gun being cocked. Time will tell whether it?s gonna jam.


Queen and fucking Country


----------



## Castiel (Jul 1, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Red Robin #2 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Jul 1, 2009)

B&R #2 was good.  Quitely's art is superb, and but I gotta say I liked it just a smidge less than B&R #1


----------



## vicious1 (Jul 1, 2009)

As good as the coloring has been I'm still a little disappointed Jamie Grant didn't join them on this. Still really enjoying the book.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 1, 2009)

Gaara No Jutsu

Morrison talks B&R


----------



## mow (Jul 2, 2009)

Grant said:
			
		

> Of course, one of my all-time favourite Batman panels was written by Haney and drawn by Jim Aparo and shows Batman strolling down the sunlit streets of Gotham, checking out the mini-skirted girls and accompanied by the line to end all lines: 'Yes, Batman digs this day!'



SOMEONE PLEASE POST THIS!


----------



## Castiel (Jul 2, 2009)

JH Williams interview


----------



## Castiel (Jul 2, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #688 preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 2, 2009)

Eh. Bagley's pencils is alright.


----------



## AliceXFleurXChan (Jul 2, 2009)

I do think they won't replace Batman it will probably stay as Bruce if not the replacement will be either Tim Drake (believed someone whos involved with DC or the batman comics even said this would be a good idea in a interview) or Dick Grayson only two I could think of and see that happening.


----------



## Graham Aker (Jul 2, 2009)

Really loving B&R. Like, I'd want to lick it something. It's fucking good.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 5, 2009)

Batman and Robin 2 was good, very good. Most people say that they didn't like this as much as the first but for me it's the opposite. I didn't like the first one but I enjoyed this, Damien is the best Robin ever.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 6, 2009)

I preferred this issue too, if only by a little.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 6, 2009)

AliceXFleurXChan said:


> I do think they won't replace Batman it will probably stay as Bruce if not the replacement will be either Tim Drake (believed someone whos involved with DC or the batman comics even said this would be a good idea in a interview) or Dick Grayson only two I could think of and see that happening.



Wow, you're incredibly late.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 6, 2009)

Like. . . several months.


----------



## Bender (Jul 6, 2009)

When is Batman #688 coming out again?


----------



## jdbzkh (Jul 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So who thinks its Two-Face beating the crap out of Bat's in the preview.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 6, 2009)

after the 4 issue Winick/Bagley arc (Batman #688-#691), Tony Daniel is taking over for 6 issues (Batman #692-#697)

also


*Spoiler*: _Cover to Batman #691_ 








I guess we know who was beating up Dick in the #688 preview now...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 6, 2009)

About bloody time.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2009)

About bloody time for what?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 7, 2009)

the Two-Face Bats from the promo finally being addressed?


----------



## mow (Jul 7, 2009)

^ as CBG said, About bloody time. One of the main things i really disliked wast the fact Two-Face and Hush/Damian not being addressed. And i love anything remotely related to the Face The Face arc after OYL. This has grand potential

B&R #2. do i even need to say anything?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 7, 2009)

so I take it you really enjoyed "The Great Leap" arc of NW


----------



## Castiel (Jul 7, 2009)

cover to Batgirl #3



in before ghstwrld


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 7, 2009)

Awful.


----------



## Bender (Jul 7, 2009)

LOL Two-face as Batman is


----------



## Castiel (Jul 8, 2009)

to the surprise of no one, Detective Comics #854 sold like crazy.  Here is the 2nd print cover, it's by JH Williams III and has Renee on the cover as well as Kate.  Though you can tell this was rushed, it still looks great


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 8, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> cover to Batgirl #3
> 
> 
> 
> in before ghstwrld



Light purple eyes. . .

Calling it Misfit.



Kilowog said:


> to the surprise of no one, Detective Comics #854 sold like crazy.  Here is the 2nd print cover, it's by JH Williams III and has Renee on the cover as well as Kate.  Though you can tell this was rushed, it still looks great



It's by JH Williams III. What else would we expect from the artist of Promethea? A typical comic book panel layout?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 8, 2009)

Cover to B&R #5


----------



## Castiel (Jul 8, 2009)

Batman #688 - Winick is actually doing a pretty darn good job on this title.  I like the use of Two-Face, and lol Penguin

Red Robin #2 - I find Tim's plummet down the elevator shaft of insanity fun :ho


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2009)

Arkham Reborn, 3 issues.  Picks up from BftC - Arkham Asylum.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 9, 2009)

Why is everything being reirthed and reborn?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2009)

oh for thsoe curious, it'll have the same writer and artist as the BftC one-shot


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 9, 2009)

688 was a good issue

Dick needs to learn to embrace the cape though


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 9, 2009)

No, dick just needs a "movie Batman" cape. I'm pretty sure Morgan Freeman will hook him up.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2009)

Morgan Freeman is too busy looking for Tim Wayne


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 9, 2009)

He can still hook him up... Unless Tim is being stingy.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2009)

some economists write a lengthy essay about Harvey Dent, his coin fixation and why he will never, ever win.

Link
Link


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Arkham Reborn, 3 issues.  Picks up from BftC - Arkham Asylum.



I'm up.

That oneshot fucking rocked.


----------



## Amore e Morte (Jul 12, 2009)

how long do you think they'll keep this up, before bringing bruce back?


----------



## mow (Jul 12, 2009)

That essay is an interesting read. 





Kilowog said:


> Arkham Reborn, 3 issues.  Picks up from BftC - Arkham Asylum.





Kilowog said:


> oh for thsoe curious, it'll have the same writer and artist as the BftC one-shot



soooooooooooooooooooold


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 12, 2009)

Amore e Morte said:


> how long do you think they'll keep this up, before bringing bruce back?



Morrison has only planned out 12-13 issues of Batman and Robin, I kind of assumed Bruce was coming back at the end of those 4 arcs.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 12, 2009)

Be a bit soon. Final Crisis ended just a few months ago. Be only 1 year to us by the time of 12 issues.

Then again, Morrison may want to handle it himself before another writer blundered (refer to Loeb's Hulk).


----------



## Amore e Morte (Jul 13, 2009)

I really like this Dick grayson as batman. I still get chills when i think about the final scene from battle for the cowl 3/3


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 13, 2009)

Chills?

. . . Really?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 13, 2009)

Speedo Lifeguard ?

Andreyko talks Manhunter


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Be a bit soon. Final Crisis ended just a few months ago. Be only 1 year to us by the time of 12 issues.
> 
> Then again, Morrison may want to handle it himself before another writer blundered (refer to Loeb's Hulk).



I think Superman's death only lasted a year. That's more or less what this Batman Reborn stuff is.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 14, 2009)

Arkham Reborn interview

Link removed


----------



## Castiel (Jul 15, 2009)

Alfred: Hush has escaped
Dick: What fiendish plans will he commit
Hush: I'm donating billions to charity
Damian: ...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 15, 2009)

He's donating the money that funds Batman though.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 15, 2009)

I wonder how many billions does the Wayne fortune have. . .


----------



## Castiel (Jul 15, 2009)

> He's donating the money that funds Batman though.


which is why Damian said they're screwed



> I wonder how many billions does the Wayne fortune have. . .


Forbes Magazine actually appraised the assets of Wayne Enterprises to be about $31.3 Billion

So they effectively have a couple weeks to stop Hush.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 16, 2009)

Batman & Robin #3 has been delayed.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 16, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Gotham City Sirens #2 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Jul 16, 2009)

Winick is coming back to Batman in #698, after Daniel's arc, but with a new artist


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 16, 2009)

Good. I've enjoyed Winnick's Batman stories.  I hope this run is as good  as The Red Hood Saga.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 17, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Outsiders #20 preview_


----------



## vicious1 (Jul 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Batman & Robin #3 has been delayed.



Damn you Frank Quitely. (Do not really know if this is the reason but it is a good guess.) Still love his work.


----------



## Graham Aker (Jul 18, 2009)

Damian's a little too cooperative in Streets. 



Kilowog said:


> Batman & Robin #3 has been delayed.




Sirens art is bad.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm not liking Sirens anymore, but Streets is very good.


----------



## Bender (Jul 18, 2009)

Why the hell is it Poison Ivy wants to know who Batman is?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Why the hell is it Poison Ivy wants to know who Batman is?



because the plot's stupid. 

Originally it was supposed to be the Riddler's mission to find out, if this picked up from Outsiders RIP... which it didn't.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 20, 2009)

Streaming of the match!!!!!!!!!

Batgirl interview


----------



## Graham Aker (Jul 20, 2009)

Cover of Batgirl 1. Why is her mask stitched to her face?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 20, 2009)

October is one fucking huge ass month to be a Batfan






> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #5
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art and variant cover by Philip Tan & Jonathan Glapion
> Cover by Frank Quitely *
> ...









> *BATMAN ANNUAL #27
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by J. Calafiore & Mark McKenna
> Cover by J. Calafiore *
> ...






> *DETECTIVE COMICS ANNUAL #11
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Tom Mandrake
> Cover by J. Calafiore *
> ...







> *AZRAEL #1
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Ramon Bachs
> Cover by Jock
> ...








> *ARKHAM REBORN #1
> Written by David Hine
> Art and variant cover by Jeremy Haun
> Cover by Frazer Irving *
> ...









> *BATMAN #691
> Written by Judd Winick
> Art by Mark Bagley & Rob Hunter
> Cover by Tony Daniel *
> ...







> BATMAN #692
> Written by Tony Daniel
> Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> Cover by Tony Daniel
> ...







> DETECTIVE COMICS #858
> Written by Greg Rucka
> Art by JH Williams III; co-feature art by Cully Hamner
> Cover by JH Williams III
> ...








> *BATGIRL #3
> Written by Bryan Q. Miller
> Art by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott
> Cover by Phil Noto *
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Jul 20, 2009)

> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #5
> Written by Chris Yost; co-feature written by Marc Andreyko
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs; co-feature art by Jeremy Haun
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen *
> ...








> *RED ROBIN #5
> Written by Chris Yost
> Art by Ramon Bachs
> Cover by Francis Manapul *
> ...








> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #5
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art and cover by Guillem March *
> 
> ...










> *OUTSIDERS #23
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Fernando Pasarin & Jay Leisten
> Cover by Tom Mandrake *
> ...









> *BLACKEST NIGHT: BATMAN #3
> Written by Peter J. Tomasi
> Art by Ardian Syaf & John Dell
> Cover by Andy Kubert
> ...









> *WORLD'S FINEST #1
> Written by Sterling Gates
> Art by Julian Lopez
> Covers by Phil Noto *
> ...








> *BOOSTER GOLD #25
> Written by Dan Jurgens; co-feature written by Matthew Sturges
> Art and cover by Dan Jurgens & Norm Rapmund; co-feature art by Mike Norton *
> 
> ...


----------



## Slice (Jul 20, 2009)

She looks like she has been hunting for a lot of food lately


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 20, 2009)

and Dick's been doing mad squats at the gym.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2009)

You left out 2 issues of Confidential Kilowog.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 20, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Link removed
> 
> Batgirl interview



Cassandra Cain's character is all I care about.

Interview didn't tell much. . . but one hint, I suppose.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 20, 2009)

Why do you like Cass so much anyways?


----------



## Bender (Jul 20, 2009)

GODAAAAAAAAAMN 

So many Batman issues I just can't decide which ones I want most

I do want

Azrael 
The Detective Comics 
Red Robin # 5
GCS
Batman Streets of Gotham 

 

Man Christmas has come early this year


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 20, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Why do you like Cass so much anyways?



I can't explain the unexplainable. So, nyah!


----------



## Agmaster (Jul 20, 2009)

Tim + Ras == you better not fucking retcon this.


----------



## Omega Level (Jul 20, 2009)

Azreal :WOW


----------



## Bender (Jul 20, 2009)

Tim and Ra's 

DO 

NOT 

FUCK 

with 

*^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)*

They will murder you 

So since Ra's wants Tim on his side does that mean he's chosen him as his new heir?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2009)

Also given that Damian is supposed to be 10, it sure seems like most of the artists/writers have not gotten the memo. Look at him on that booster gold cover.


----------



## Bender (Jul 20, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Also given that Damian is supposed to be 10, it sure seems like most of the artists/writers have not gotten the memo. Look at him on that booster gold cover.



Tim is supposed to be 16 yet most artists make him look like he's 20


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 20, 2009)

Batman is supposed to be Dick Grayson yet most artists made him look like Bruce.


----------



## Omega Level (Jul 20, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Batman is supposed to be Dick Grayson yet most artists made him look like Bruce.



Kwotid for trewf


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Tim is supposed to be 16 yet most artists make him look like he's 20



Shouldn't he be 17? I remember an issue that celebrated his 16th birthday, and then there was one year later...


----------



## Castiel (Jul 21, 2009)

DiDio just said Terry McGuinnes is going to show up in some form this year 

begin random speculation


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 21, 2009)

Oh, jeez.

It could be good. . . or bad.

I rather have them not show up to avoid the possible bad.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 21, 2009)

> begin random speculation


Multiversity.


----------



## Bender (Jul 21, 2009)

Meh, after much thought and pondering I don't want Mcginnis in the comics

He's too Ultimate Spidy'ish for the Batman series


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 21, 2009)

Yeah, I don't like it when people tell me to read comics because "[this character] is kinda like Ultimate Spidey, so you'll dig it " (Exiles, Invincible). I'd rather just read Ultimate Spidey. >_>


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 21, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> DiDio just said *Terry McGuinnes* is going to show up in some form this year
> 
> begin random speculation


----------



## Bender (Jul 21, 2009)

Read Red Robin #2

Loved it 

Tim as Red Robin kicks ass pek pek


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 21, 2009)

Plus. . . why mention Terry now, DiDiot?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 21, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Multiversity.



Morrison + Terry & Max  

I'd die.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Plus. . . why mention Terry now, DiDiot?



Someone asked if there were any plans for him to appear in comic books and he answered that there were.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 21, 2009)

Does Red Robin go hand in hand with the Robin comics?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 22, 2009)

typhoon72 said:


> Does Red Robin go hand in hand with the Robin comics?


Yes. It has elements from the Robin comic (especially the last arc), but you don't need to read one in order to understand the other. All you need to know is...

Tim = Robin, now Red Robin
Bruce = Batman, now a skeleton
Plot = Tim's being in denial over Bruce's death


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Yes. It has elements from the Robin comic (especially the last arc), but you don't need to read one in order to understand the other. All you need to know is...
> 
> Tim = Robin, now Red Robin
> Bruce = Batman, now a skeleton
> Plot = Tim's being in denial over Bruce's death



Tim losing his mind is absolutely hilarious


----------



## Castiel (Jul 22, 2009)

indeed.  it's the whole appeal of the series to me.  he's clearly lost his marbles.  he just down and says "bruce is alive" then runs to europe and beats the shit out of bad guys and then teams up with Ra's Al Ghul.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> indeed.  it's the whole appeal of the series to me.  he's clearly lost his marbles.  he just down and says "bruce is alive" then runs to europe and beats the shit out of bad guys and then teams up with Ra's Al Ghul.



Yup. It kinda sucks when you actually like the character though 

I miss smart/rational/not batshit crazy Tim.

Although Bruce has gone through his fair share of crazytime, i suppose it was only natural that Tim would get his due.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 22, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #855 preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 22, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Someone asked if there were any plans for him to appear in comic books and he answered that there were.



I mean. . . why plans for him now?

A person previously asked DiDiot that, and he answered there was no plans.

So. . . why now? What's possibly coming, other than possibly Multiversity?


----------



## typhoon72 (Jul 22, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Yes. It has elements from the Robin comic (especially the last arc), but you don't need to read one in order to understand the other. All you need to know is...
> 
> Tim = Robin, now Red Robin
> Bruce = Batman, now a skeleton
> Plot = Tim's being in denial over Bruce's death



Yeah, I knew that stuff. Just wanted to make sure I picked up the right comics at the store. Thanks.

Nightwing Batman should come pimpslap Tim out of it


----------



## Okkervil River (Jul 22, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Yup. It kinda sucks when you actually like the character though
> 
> I miss smart/rational/not batshit crazy Tim.
> 
> Although Bruce has gone through his fair share of crazytime, i suppose it was only natural that Tim would get his due.



Tim is still smart and rational--I particularly liked his running analysis of the fight in issue #2--it's just that now all of that intelligence is backed up a fanatical desire to prove Bruce is alive and that he isn't crazy, which, ironically, makes him seem crazier, .


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2009)

Being completely brilliant and completely insane at the same time is more or less the status quo for Batman characters.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 22, 2009)

Ras: Do you enjoy burying your friends and lovers Savage? 
V.S.: As a matter of face, I do.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2009)

Well Sirens still isn't very good :|


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 22, 2009)

If it had better art, I'd probably dig it.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 22, 2009)

Creeper is pure


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 23, 2009)

I have no problem with the art M0. It's entirely Dini's script that's failing me here.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 24, 2009)

live updates from SDCC

*Psyren 80 by Binktopia*


----------



## Okkervil River (Jul 24, 2009)

> Rucka then announced that after seven issues with Williams, Jock (of The Losers fame) will come on board for three issues. Following that, the Question backups will move to the front of the book for a time, with either Williams or Jock drawing a 10-page Batwoman Second Feature. Then Williams (and Kate Kane) will come back to the front of the book.



I find this awesome.


----------



## Bender (Jul 24, 2009)

I would've enjoyed Sirens # 2 if it showed at least of enthusiasm 

The art really through me off.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 24, 2009)

I don't really get the complaints about the art in Sirens. It seemed fine to me. The writing is what blows, which is disappointing.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 24, 2009)

yeah, at first I didn't care for March's art, but over the past year it's grown on me


----------



## Okkervil River (Jul 31, 2009)

I fucking love Detective Comics.

That is all.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 31, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> I fucking love Detective Comics.
> 
> That is all.



This... Though I still haven't read the Renee Montoya back-ups.


----------



## Okkervil River (Jul 31, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Though I still haven't read the Renee Montoya back-ups.



It's not as good as the main feature, or really as good so far as the full-length Question books Rucka has written, but it's fun.  I enjoy it.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 31, 2009)

Werewolves ... drawn by JH Williams III


----------



## Bender (Jul 31, 2009)

Is it just me or am I the only one already getting tired of Dick's  kiddy Batman smiles?  You're THE Batman Batman does not smile like some school girl on prom night.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 31, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Werewolves ... drawn by JH Williams III


Werewolf? I thought that that it was were some kind of human/cheshire cat, Wonderland themed hybrid.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 31, 2009)

whatever.  fact is they're ... something


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 31, 2009)

JH Williams from Promethea. 'Nuff said.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 31, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> JH Williams from Promethea. 'Nuff said.



No. Say more, because I haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 31, 2009)

Promethea was the comic that made JH Williams III famous, written by Alan Moore.

It was a masterpiece.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 31, 2009)

Oh,                                    ok.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jul 31, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Is it just me or am I the only one already getting tired of Dick's  kiddy Batman smiles?  You're THE Batman Batman does not smile like some school girl on prom night.



What I'm getting sick of is Dick whining about how he'll never be Bruce and all that jazz. I kinda want Zombie Bruce to just smack so sense into him


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 31, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> What I'm getting sick of is Dick whining about how he'll never be Bruce and all that jazz. I kinda want Zombie Bruce to just smack so sense into him



And right after that, tim drake comes in out of nowhere with the most epic "i told you so" ever.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jul 31, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> And right after that, tim drake comes in out of nowhere with the most epic "i told you so" ever.





I think Batman's mini in BN have me the most excited


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 1, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I think Batman's mini in BN have me the most excited



Yea me too.

Im looking forward to see how the new (and by new i mean slightly unhinged) tim drake deals with having to smoke dear old dad.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 1, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Yea me too.
> 
> Im looking forward to see how the new (and by new i mean slightly unhinged) tim drake deals with having to smoke dear old dad.



I was hoping they'd bring back Dick and Tim's actual parent. That'd be lulzy.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 1, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I was hoping they'd bring back Dick and Tim's actual parent. That'd be lulzy.



They are. :ho


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 1, 2009)

The Graysons are coming back empowered.

Sue freaking Dibny is back empowered.

Pity Johns missed the chance to bring back the Dibny's foetus empowered.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 1, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> They are. :ho





Comic Book Guy said:


> The Graysons are coming back empowered.
> .





For a person whose parents are dead, I reeaaaaallly shouldn't be enjoying this as much as I am


----------



## Castiel (Aug 1, 2009)

cover to #3 should make you lol


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 1, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> cover to #3 should make you lol





The only way that could be more fucked up awesome is if he still had on his Robin costume

And the sheer fear in his masked eyes are


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 1, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> The only way that could be more fucked up awesome is if he still had on his Robin costume
> 
> And the sheer fear in his masked eyes are



Im kind of hoping that Tim just kills his parents all cold blooded and shit.

Im sure he wont, but depending on how the rest of RR goes he may be crazy enough to just kill them.


----------



## Bender (Aug 1, 2009)

BLACKEST NIGHT IS


----------



## mow (Aug 2, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> The only way that could be more fucked up awesome is if he still had on his Robin costume
> 
> And the sheer fear in his masked eyes are



If you look close enough, he also seems to have an erection.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 2, 2009)

mow said:


> If you look close enough, he also seems to have an erection.



*looks*
:rofl
Good lord, what a cover


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Is it just me or am I the only one already getting tired of Dick's  kiddy Batman smiles?  You're THE Batman Batman does not smile like some school girl on prom night.



He's not Bruce Wayne. And back in the old days Bruce Wayne even smiled. Now, granted, when Bagley draws dickbatman smiling its just awkward. Like he's he's remembering a really really funny joke and he won't tell you what it is, and the entire time he's beating your face in. But I think Quitely's take on him as Batman is pretty much perfect. 

Also half the books that don't even remotely revolve around Batman wank off on him, of course the Batman books are going to have his replacement whining about what a high bar he set.


----------



## shit (Aug 2, 2009)

Well it is an awfully high bar.


----------



## Agmaster (Aug 2, 2009)

Drake should totally decimate his parents.  With Ra's help.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 2, 2009)

Agmaster said:


> Drake should totally decimate his parents.  With Ra's help.



Its weird. I used to be super pissed and annoyed at the current direction of Tim Drake.

But now, im like, fuck it. Lets have fun with it. So now i hope that Tim gets as crazy as can be without being permanently fucked up. So yea, hopefully he bo staffs the shit out of his parents.

Also, im guessing there isnt going to be a black lantern bruce? Since its just his body and not really...him?

I would love for at the end of blackest night, during all the clean up in gotham, after all the tragedy and destruction, for tim to turn to dick and be like:

"So...i couldnt help but notice there was no black lantern bruce, whats up with that. I mean...he's emotionally important to all of us, so i guess the only way he wouldnt come back is if he's not totally dead, but theres no WAY that could be true, right Dick?"

I cant wait for batman to come back. There should be an entire issue dedicated to tim hopping around the DC universe saying "I told you so" to everybody.


----------



## Bender (Aug 2, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> He's not Bruce Wayne. *And back in the old days *Bruce Wayne even smiled. Now, granted, when Bagley draws dickbatman smiling its just awkward. Like he's he's remembering a really really funny joke and he won't tell you what it is, and the entire time he's beating your face in. But I think Quitely's take on him as Batman is pretty much perfect.



Well guess what kid we ain't back in the old days no more


----------



## Agmaster (Aug 2, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Well guess what kid we ain't back in the old days no more


INORITE!  Loeb is considered the gold standard now.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 2, 2009)

He also smiled after Infinite Crisis more often, but it was creepy.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 2, 2009)

Green Arrow made Batman laugh


----------



## Slice (Aug 3, 2009)

mow said:


> If you look close enough, he also seems to have an erection.






So we have a more lighthearted Batman now, but they sure make up for it with a super serious Robin


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 3, 2009)

omg laser pew pew! said:


> Oh that's lame. Neither, Tim, Dick or Todd (lol TDT) are worthy of saying "I'm Batman".



Interesting hiow a simple, well written ending can never be achieved by american comics of notoriety . No, they have to wddle from decent to good and back instead .

Why could they just end the batman series alltogether, I mean, seriously ?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 6, 2009)

Marcus To is taking over the art of Red Robin now that Ramon Bachs is on Azrael


sample of To's art


----------



## Castiel (Aug 6, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Red Robin #3 preview_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks kilowog.

That preview looks pretty cool

Tim is seeming very peter parkerish in this issue...which isnt necessarily a bad thing.

I love tim's sense of humor.


----------



## Bender (Aug 6, 2009)

Tim sounds like Peter Parker nah, he sounds more like Alexander Luthor from Infinite Crisis


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 6, 2009)

Either way, i love his sense of humor right there.

And i love how he's like "batman's dead (hes not)"


----------



## mow (Aug 6, 2009)

Wow, never though that would be cassie (always figured it would be cassandra)

best cover of the year.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 6, 2009)

mow said:


> Wow, never though that would be cassie (always figured it would be cassandra)
> 
> best cover of the year.



I wish. Cassandra is a lot cooler than cassie ha.

But yea it is a really cool cover.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 6, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Marcus To* is taking over the art of Red Robin



Good guy. I got 2 art commissions from him.



for *free*, and



for $*80*.

He's coming again for the ComiCon. More art!


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 6, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Good guy. I got 2 art commissions from him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm digging the Batgirl one. Not sure Id pay 80 for it, but Im a cheap prick


----------



## mow (Aug 7, 2009)

It's CBG man, if it was for 200 he'd still buy it provided it's batgirl XD


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 7, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I'm digging the Batgirl one. Not sure Id pay 80 for it, but Im a cheap prick



It's a reasonable price, actually. $80 for:

- upper body shot
- inked
- small slice of a city shot

and used up more than 60% of the blank page.

Other artists would charge *$100**+* for that.

Some are really generous though. Leonard Kirk, artist for Captain Britain and MI:13, charged me *$50* for this:



- full body character shot
- inked
- quasi-environment, also inked

For *$50*, it's a _fucking great deal_. It's especially great when artists also fill up the page, instead of leaving it blank.

The most expensive and ridiculous I came across was J. Scott Campbell, who charged something like $200+ for a _simple headshot_.

This year is Black Cat, Death of the Endless, or V. Death of the Endless from Marcus To or Chris Bachalo (artist for Death: The High Cost of Living), Black Cat from David Finch, and V undecided still.



mow said:


> It's CBG man, if it was for 200 he'd still buy it provided it's batgirl XD



Little known fact: I carry around a Batgirl TPB at every convention I go to so that in-case that commissioned artist doesn't know who she is, I leave them the TPB so that they now know. This I did with Marcus To.

But fucking *DARWYN COOKE* is coming. I'm getting my Absolute New Frontier signed by him, and hopefully a Spirit sketch from him.

Ivan Reis from Sinestro Corps War and Blackest Night is coming. I met him 2 years ago, just before SCW at the local Toronto convention. He's a really nice guy, but he needed a translator -- couldn't speak English.

I got a *free *sketch of Earth-2 Superman from Ivan Reis, which he happily did:



I'm hoping to get another one from him this year, but I doubt it. He's too popular now, and so will have a LONG line of other GL fans.

Yeah. I'm the fucking nerd.

/endAVGN


----------



## Castiel (Aug 7, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #689 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Aug 7, 2009)

Judd Winick interview

subbed version


----------



## Castiel (Aug 7, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Blackest Night: Batman #1_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 7, 2009)

Huh. Didn't expect to see Deadman there.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 7, 2009)

he was on the cover.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 7, 2009)

Am I the only one not enjoying Red Robin?  

It seems to me Yost is trying to offset a high degree of redundancy by needlessly narrating the story out of sequence.

Plus, the atmosphere and appeal of the setting is totally lost by the dull art.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 7, 2009)

It's only ok. It's no worse than the Robin title ever was in it's later years. But I think the main draw is watching Tim go crazy


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 7, 2009)

I like it well enough.  It's not great, but I love Tim and like the concept of the series, so I'll stick with it.  Unhinged!Tim _is_ a huge draw.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 7, 2009)

> But I think the main draw is watching Tim go crazy



Pretty much.  I only read for the sick voyeuristic pleasure of seeing such a stable person go insane.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 10, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batgirl #1 preview_


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: _Batgirl #1 preview_



That shit dropping this week son?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2009)

I may be horrendously out of the loop, but who is that batgirl? Im guessing its not Cass, right?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2009)

It's still a 'mystery' but as far as I'm concerned it's not much more of a mystery than Red Robin's identity was, pretty sure it's Spoiler.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 10, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> It's still a 'mystery' but as far as I'm concerned it's not much more of a mystery than Red Robin's identity was, pretty sure it's Spoiler.



I personally think it's Alicia Silverstone


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2009)

Ah, so what is cassandra cain up to these days?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2009)

As far as we last knew she was Batgirl, part of the network during Battle for the Cowl. She'll at least appear in the first Batgirl arc, and might be a permanent sort of supporting character.


----------



## Slice (Aug 10, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> I may be horrendously out of the loop, but who is that batgirl? *Im guessing its not Cass, right*?



Technically she still is one of the candidates, but the narration does in no way fit her. So i guess she's out.

Like Petes said most likely it's Spoiler

Althought i approve of CGhosts idea


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2009)

Slice said:


> Technically she still is one of the candidates, but the narration does in no way fit her. So i guess she's out.
> 
> Like Petes said most likely it's Spoiler



Yea, cassandra cain does not thank people who tell her she weighs one hundred pounds. She fucks them up before they can even finish the statement.

Ah but why are they making spoiler batgirl. She was only mildly interesting in war games and robin, although i admit thats all ive read her in. I really cant see her as anything more than one of tim's love interests.

Needless to say, character wise she doesnt hold a candle to cass cain.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2009)

I wish I could be writing for Cassandra Cain.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 10, 2009)

*reads preview*


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2009)

Reads pretty similarly to the old Robin or Nightwing series, which isn't really a bad thing.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2009)

the fact that Quitely's flying Batmobile is being used in the other books pleases me.

also I personally though that RR was much better this month.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 13, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> the fact that Quitely's flying Batmobile is being used in the other books pleases me.
> 
> also I personally though that RR was much better this month.



Indeed


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 13, 2009)

Batgirl #1 hits next Wednesday. . .

Just a note to myself.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 13, 2009)

I actually don't like the idea of a flying batmobile at all.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 13, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> I actually don't like the idea of a flying batmobile at all.



But why?

It's just like Batman Beyond


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2009)

it's a batmobile that flies.  end of discussion.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2009)

current arc of Confidential is pretty good.

Batman fighting Russians, bears and Russian Bears.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 13, 2009)

Hey...was Tim Red Robin during Final Crisis?


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 13, 2009)

New Batman and Red Robin was good this week, the Cover Art for both is great too.


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 13, 2009)

Tim is going to commit suicide at the end of this series.  Then Bruce is going to come back, and all his friends and the entire superhuman community are just going to be like, "Well, shit."


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 13, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Tim is going to commit suicide at the end of this series.  Then Bruce is going to come back, and all his friends and the entire superhuman community are just going to be like, "Well, shit."



NO!

Bruce is going to come back, and Tim is going to personally do an "i told you so" dance to the entire DC universe.

Maybe Ra's can have his back and be like "he DID tell you so."


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 13, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Tim is going to commit suicide at the end of this series.  Then Bruce is going to come back, and all his friends and the entire superhuman community are just going to be like, "Well, shit."



*cue Damian's laughing*


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 13, 2009)

Batman is a monthly comic isnt it? If so then damn...because 690 seems like its going to be epic


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> *cue Damian's laughing*



I'd  spit on the page Damian is on every in every isue if he did that shit


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 13, 2009)

Just read Red Robin and Blackest Night:Batman

I love Dick and Damien together, Damien's bratty ignorance and Dick's semi assholeish but matter of fact way of talking to him is always fun.

But i gotta say my favorite part about BN bats is that when Dick called Tim, Damien said "its a good thing you made that call." Its nice to see damien actually becoming less of a brat.

Here's hoping that Tim doesnt bring his idiot rage ball that he normally whips out around damien next issue.

As for Red Robin, well, its more Tim so i love it regardless, but its getting a little choppy.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Hey...was Tim Red Robin during Final Crisis?



Apparently.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 13, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Apparently.



No, he was still robin.

He just wore the cowl due to some serious head burns he got in an explosion caused by anarchy, and i guess he used it again during the crisis.


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> No, he was still robin.
> 
> He just wore the cowl due to some serious head burns he got in an explosion caused by anarchy, and i guess he used it again during the crisis.



I can't believe Tim was turned into a justifier


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 13, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Apparently.





Windwaker said:


> No, he was still robin.
> 
> He just wore the cowl due to some serious head burns he got in an explosion caused by anarchy, and i guess he used it again during the crisis.



Call me confused or stupid, but I think he had on the entire costume. I didn't fuck with FC so I'm still lost


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 13, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Call me confused or stupid, but I think he had on the entire costume. I didn't fuck with FC so I'm still lost



Nope. Im not gonna post the scan, but i got the issue right in front of me, its the Robin costume, but with the RR cowl that he wore after he got the top of his head blowed up.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 14, 2009)

yeah, Windwaker's right.  Tim was Robin in Battle for the Cowl #1

I'm guessing he was wearing that cause of his burn, then when that got fixed (which Yost said he is going to address) he went back to being Robin, then became a Batman, then got beat by Jason and fired by Dick and went back to the RR costume


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2009)

> *BATMAN and ROBIN #6
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art by Philip Tan & Jonathan Glapion
> Cover by Frank Quitely
> ...








> *BATMAN #693
> Written by Tony Daniel
> Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> Cover by Tony Daniel*
> ...








> *DETECTIVE COMICS #859
> Written by Greg Rucka
> Art by JH Williams III
> Co-feature art by Cully Hamner
> ...








> *AZRAEL #2
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Ramon Bachs & John Stanisci
> Cover by Jock*
> ...








> *ARKHAM REBORN #2
> Written by David Hine
> Art by Jeremy Haun
> Cover by Frazer Irving*
> ...








> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #6
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art and cover by Guillem March*
> Now that Mr. J’s secret is out in the open, will the girls’ reaction take them to the point of no return? And will Harley Quinn ever be the same?
> On sale November 25 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US








> *BATGIRL #4
> Written by Bryan Q. Miller
> Art by Lee Garbett and Trevor Scott
> Cover by Phil Noto*
> ...








> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #6
> Written by Chris Yost
> Co-feature written by Marc Andreyko
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs
> ...








> *RED ROBIN #6
> Written by Christopher Yost
> Art by Marcus To
> Cover by Marcus To & Ray McCarthy*
> ...


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 17, 2009)

Kinda lookin forward to all of those...

Huntress looks amazing in that cover


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 17, 2009)

Is Gotham City Sirens good yet?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2009)

I was curious as to how Red Robin and Azrael would interact.  

White Ghost eh...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Is Gotham City Sirens good yet?



2 issues in, it's alright.

Need more to be sure.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 17, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Is Gotham City Sirens good yet?


No. Hopefully it turns around soon.


----------



## Bender (Aug 17, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> 2 issues in, it's alright.
> 
> Need more to be sure.



Issue 3 decide it's future with me


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 18, 2009)

Soooooo I remember a pic someone posted earlier of Superboy fliying directly above Tim. Now, I've been told that he still dead back then, but he's alive now and shit. Did that show up anywhere yet? Or is that still to come. I of course didn't expect Superboy to revive so I thought it was just Tim's mind fucking itself.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 18, 2009)

I thought that pic was released after we knew what the deal was with Adventure Comics, but it's an upcoming issue of said series.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 18, 2009)

no one remarks at how the solicits imply Jason is still the Red Hood

this is good, because at this point I think Morrison is the only one who can salvage the character.


----------



## Agmaster (Aug 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I was curious as to how Red Robin and Azrael would interact.


Tim would kick he snot out of him if he started a fight this time.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 19, 2009)

Streets of Gotham #3 was great.  loved the Hush bits at the beginning and end, and I like the use of Zsasz


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 20, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Frank Quitely’s cover to BATMAN AND ROBIN #5_


----------



## mow (Aug 20, 2009)

*right click*
*saved*
*wank time*


----------



## Castiel (Aug 20, 2009)

Nicieza talks Azrael

Link removed


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2009)

Jean-Paul Valley as a Black Lantern?

Hmm. In perhaps the Azrael BN tie-in, assuming that it will.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 20, 2009)

I think he would have made a great appearance for BN: Batman personally. Honestly, I couldn't care less about BL graysons


----------



## The man with a pigeon (Aug 21, 2009)

Jean-Paul appears the day Quesada leaves his position in Marvel. They just don't want to pay royalities to the current EiC of their rival company.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 22, 2009)

You know. . . that makes a whole lot of sense.


----------



## Graham Aker (Aug 22, 2009)

Damian has excellent taste in wimmin.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 22, 2009)

Graham Aker said:


> Damian has excellent taste in wimmin.



Eye no write

WHich is another reason he shouldn't be ten years old /bitching


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 22, 2009)

The brat's growing on me.


----------



## Bender (Aug 22, 2009)

If they re-introduce Jason Todd I wish this was his new costume 

*Annyfly*

Red X ftw


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 22, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> If they re-introduce Jason Todd I wish this was his new costume
> 
> HWK-290
> 
> Red X ftw



I assumed they were gonna use him in the Teen Titans show once I saw that


----------



## Bender (Aug 22, 2009)

^

Jason Todd needs an upgrade in uniform if he wants my respect again 

It went down ever since he fucked with Bruce's Batman image 

His respect with me was at it's highest when he was trolling the Black Mask 

Give him the Red X costume and sick new guns dammit!


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 22, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Eye no write
> 
> WHich is another reason he shouldn't be ten years old /bitching


Yeah, once again it seems like only 2 writers at DC are aware of how old he is.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 22, 2009)

Red X's character is much cooler than Jason's.


----------



## Bender (Aug 22, 2009)

Do you think they'll bring in another DC comic tv show concept to the comics?


----------



## Slice (Aug 23, 2009)

They should rather do a new cartoon set in the DC:AU.
Something like a GL or Flash spinoff from the Justice League cartoon. (Could be used to give John Steward some more well deserved spotlight)




Petes12 said:


> Yeah, once again it seems like only 2 writers at DC are aware of how old he is.



Or is it because todays ten year olds have allready that bad a reputation


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 23, 2009)

I rather they continue the DCAU.

Out of all the superheroes left for cartoon, there's really none left. DC has already starred Batman, Superman, Teen Titans, Justice League. Who'd be left, outside of VERTIGO?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 23, 2009)

so do you guys think Jason is (still) the Red Hood?  At this point Jason is so trashed as character only Morrison or Dini salvage him.





Despite all this I can't help but feel this is Morrison fucking with us (anyone remember Xorn)


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 24, 2009)

Naruto's tummy...



> 11. darknight11 asked:
> you said Terry McGinnis will back in the DCU; will he have his own mini series?
> 
> DiDio: There will be a Terry McGinnis mini-series early next year. We've heard the fans, we've heard everyone's interest. And right now we're planning to put out a Batman Beyond mini-series in 2010.




Oh, my!

*prepares razor blade and patiently waits*

More seriously, this project automatically fails if doesn't feature Max Gibson.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 24, 2009)

Xorn was manipulated by editorial in the end, IIRC.


----------



## Bender (Aug 24, 2009)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


----------



## Taxman (Aug 25, 2009)

> so do you guys think Jason is (still) the Red Hood?



I have a question...have they mentioned at all as to what's happened to the Joker since we last saw him in Batman RIP?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 25, 2009)

no.

he's going to show up in a minor role in Gotham City Sirens with Harley Quinn, then go back into hiding.  all signs point to there being a big Morrison/Quitely revamp of the Joker sometime next year


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 25, 2009)

Keeping true to Morrison' "supersanity" approach to Joker.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 25, 2009)

Hmm, how long has it been since there was a joker centric arc in the bat books?

Or at least, a big arc with Joker being the head honcho.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 26, 2009)

Not counting Batman RIP, the most recent was that Joker-centric one-issue by Morrison.


----------



## shit (Aug 26, 2009)

Now they have the Circus of Crime in B&R, and they all look like Joker henchmen. You can tell they're starving for Joker in these books, especially since Bruce is dead. I mean.... Joker has nothing to do with Bruce dying and now it's getting around that he's dead, and Joker's gonna do nothing about it? That's the most OOC shit I've ever heard.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 26, 2009)

that's what everyone is guessing the next Morrison/Quitely arc will be about, but Morrison is being a dick and prolonging the wait to build anticipation


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 26, 2009)

Juggalo said:


> Now they have the Circus of Crime in B&R, and they all look like Joker henchmen. You can tell they're starving for Joker in these books, especially since Bruce is dead. I mean.... Joker has nothing to do with Bruce dying and now it's getting around that he's dead, and Joker's gonna do nothing about it? That's the most OOC shit I've ever heard.



Its actually pretty in character imo.

I bring up that one storyline/mini/ whatever the fuck it was where everyone thought Batman was dead, and Joker moved to burbs, got plastic surgery done, and lived a normal life because he thought his nemesis was dead.

What the hell was it I read anyway? Was that a weed-dream or something


----------



## Castiel (Aug 26, 2009)

most likely       .


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 26, 2009)

Hmmm, that'd explain why whenever I ask for that people are like


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 26, 2009)

Was B&R delayed earlier this month or was it originally solicited for this week?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 26, 2009)

Not sure. Solicits can change.

Absolute V for Vendetta was due out this week, but it was pushed back to next week.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 26, 2009)

it was delayed, supposed to have come out 3 weeks ago


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 26, 2009)

Well, it's Frank Quitely.

At the Fan Expo last year, his one wish that he said he would like granted is to "meet a single deadline well on time".


----------



## Castiel (Aug 26, 2009)

well B&R 1 and 2 did come out on time


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 26, 2009)

Morrison's not exactly the most punctual writer either.  Three weeks isn't so bad if you consider some of his past history (*Cough* Wildstorm *Cough*).


----------



## Castiel (Aug 26, 2009)

oh that wasn't delayed, he just fucking stopped working onthem.  52 and Batman took priority


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 26, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> oh that wasn't delayed, he just fucking stopped working onthem.  52 and Batman took priority



Supposedly he wasn't pleased with the less-than-stellar reception of the first issue of the Authority, =/.

Speaking of, I am glad to see Keith Giffen finishing that story, especially since I'm far from fond of World's End thusfar.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 26, 2009)

people didn't take to the idea of Authority on Earth-Prime kind of story, Giffen itself said that turned him off initially, but after a phone call with Morrison about where he was going to take the story (which is what Giffen will be doing doing) and he says he loved the concept


----------



## mow (Aug 26, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> people didn't take to the idea of Authority on Earth-Prime kind of story,



Ye of little faith. 

anyhow,  B&R #3 is gonna make my week

btw, anyone played Batman:AA? It's getting released next week over here, and I just cant wait. Also, what will happen to the new Arkhum Asylum? I know the writer of the one-shot is going to write another piece, is it a mini or a run?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 26, 2009)

Arkham Asylum is a fantastic game.

I highly recommend it for any batman fan.


----------



## Slice (Aug 26, 2009)

I just love "Batman and Robin" hell i could watch at the pictures for hours and still be satisfied, the art is just amazing.


----------



## mow (Aug 26, 2009)

Jeeeeez, professer Pyg just made me shiver. this is AWESOME


----------



## Castiel (Aug 26, 2009)

...

Pyg is going to make a fine addition to the ranks of Arkham


----------



## Bender (Aug 26, 2009)

I knew it! Gotham City Sirens #3 was good 

My own ratings for it

Pros

+ A story 95% dedicated to the Riddler

+ Dick trying to come to terms with the Riddler' reformation

+ Excellent story pacing 

+ Has the feel of a Private Detective story one of my favorites too Philip Marlowe (should wiki later)

+ Spectacular artwork

+ You see less of Catwoman and Poison Ivy's annoying ass

Cons

- Where the hell is Harley?

-You don't see Hush til' the end 


Overall rating 

96%


----------



## Castiel (Aug 26, 2009)

what this guy said ^^^
it's a fill-in issue by another writer but it was pretty neat

oh and Detective was awesome again this month


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 26, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> ...
> 
> Pyg is going to make a fine addition to the ranks of Arkham



Good lord that man/thing/pig is creepy.

So yes, what you said is amazingly accurate


----------



## Taleran (Aug 26, 2009)

Comic is making me scared

if Dick Batman lasted for as long as Wally Flash did I might be against Bruce ever coming back


----------



## Agmaster (Aug 26, 2009)

It worked with Wally and Bucky.  The only reason we don't see it coming for Dick is because Bruce is chilling in caves.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 26, 2009)

Agmaster said:


> It worked with Wally and Bucky.  The only reason we don't see it coming for Dick is because Bruce is chilling in caves.



I like Dick as batman, but i wouldnt ever want that to be his permanent position. Dick is a leader, someone who inspires, and connects with people very easily. Batman by definition cant really be this.

But im really glad bruce is "dead." He's gotten pretty boring as a character recently for me. I've gotten to the point where i cant read a run of the mill book about bruce, it has to be really good. Since nothing but the extraordinary (R.I.P.) is really a challenge for him.

Ha, i'd actually be very happy with Bruce dieing/retiring down the line and giving the mantle to Tim.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 26, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> But im really glad bruce is "dead." He's gotten pretty boring as a character recently for me. Since nothing but the extraordinary (R.I.P.) is really a challenge for him.
> 
> Ha, i'd actually be very happy with Bruce dieing/retiring down the line and giving the mantle to Tim.



You realize you'll probally have that same problem with Tim right?


----------



## Bender (Aug 26, 2009)

After reading Gotham city Sirens I really don't think Dick should wear the cape I mean c'mon now. He's barely able to catch up with the Riddler when it comes to being a detective. The same person Bruce easily trouced in a match of wits.


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 26, 2009)

Dick and Tim kind of split the Bat ability there.  Dick's much better at hand-to-hand than Tim is, but Tim's a superior detective.


----------



## Bender (Aug 26, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Dick and Tim kind of split the Bat ability there.  Dick's much better at hand-to-hand than Tim is, but Tim's a superior detective.



It's a damn shame Dick didn't ask Tim how to be an awesome detective like him before he left.  

Also I know Tim found out who Batman was when he was a kid he have any other impressive feats as a result of his deductive skills?


----------



## shit (Aug 26, 2009)

Damian will be a fine replacement for Bruce when he retires. He has physical prowess and expert interrogation skillz.


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 26, 2009)

Juggalo said:


> Damian will be a fine replacement for Bruce when he retires. He has physical prowess and expert interrogation skillz.



He's also easy to write as a whiny little snot.  His characterization has been inconsistent at best these days.  It's weird reading one book and not being able to stand him, then picking up another and having his eccentricities (and his character) come off as interesting.  It's like some people just shouldn't write him.


----------



## Bender (Aug 26, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> He's also easy to write as a whiny little snot.  His characterization has been inconsistent at best these days.  It's weird reading one book and not being able to stand him, then picking up another and having his eccentricities (and his character) come off as interesting.  It's like some people just shouldn't write him.



I agree with this

But in a way I kind of think of it at this way


Dick 

Jason Todd 

Tim 

and Damian 

represent all of the Bruce's characteristics


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 26, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> You realize you'll probally have that same problem with Tim right?



Doubt it. Since while Tim is smart, he lacks the experience and the whole "Everything in the universe < Batman with prep" Aura.

So i think i would really like his as batman, although if he were to actually become batman permanently then im sure way down the line he'd eventually become stale and boring to me. Although i could be dead before that happens ha.



Blaze of Glory said:


> It's a damn shame Dick didn't ask Tim how to be an awesome detective like him before he left.
> 
> Also I know Tim found out who Batman was when he was a kid he have any other impressive feats as a result of his deductive skills?



Mostly just figuring out other heroes identities, although im sure there are more.

Huntress, Impulse, and The Flash (wally west) were all figured out by him.

This is after Hal (spectre) wiped the memory of wally being the flash from everyone.

He's got a good amount of general intelligence feats though. 



Okkervil River said:


> Dick and Tim kind of split the Bat ability there.  Dick's much better at hand-to-hand than Tim is, but Tim's a superior detective.



Didnt batman once say that Tim could potentially become a better fighter than him?


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 26, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Mostly just figuring out other heroes identities, although im sure there are more.
> 
> Huntress, Impulse, and The Flash (wally west) were all figured out by him.
> 
> ...



Not to mention he apparently knows a shitload about bioengineering, considering his attempts to clone Superboy.



> Didnt batman once say that Tim could potentially become a better fighter than him?



I don't know about a better fighter, but he's said that about Tim as a detective.  Shiva has always been really interested in Tim's martial arts potential, though, but stuff like that has to be taken with a grain of salt.  As of now, Dick is the demonstratively better martial artist.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Not to mention he apparently knows a shitload about bioengineering, considering his attempts to clone Superboy.



Tim in general is just one smart friend. 

-He's knowledgeable enough in numerous sciences that he could probably hold a dozen PhDs. Seriously, almost cloning superman at age 16/17 is ridiculous.
-He's incredibly skilled with computers, imo in spitting distance of Oracle levels of computer mastery.
-He's slowly turning into a monster when it comes to using prep. I know a lot of people didnt like it, but him beating shiva was magnificent imo, nearly batman level ha.



> I don't know about a better fighter, but he's said that about Tim as a detective.  Shiva has always been really interested in Tim's martial arts potential, though, but stuff like that has to be taken with a grain of salt.  As of now, Dick is the demonstratively better martial artist.



I think Dick is the much better martial artist now, but i think Tim will surpass him eventually. 

Imo when shiva calls you a martial arts prodigy (and like you said, her overall interest in Tim), that shouldnt be taken with a grain of salt. 

I always took Shiva's interest in Tim as a big hint that she thinks there's a good chance he could someday become skilled enough to kill her.


----------



## Bender (Aug 27, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Tim in general is just one smart friend.
> 
> -He's knowledgeable enough in numerous sciences that he could probably hold a dozen PhDs. Seriously, almost cloning superman at age 16/17 is ridiculous.
> -He's incredibly skilled with computers, imo in spitting distance of Oracle levels of computer mastery.
> -He's slowly turning into a monster when it comes to using prep. I know a lot of people didnt like it, but him beating shiva was magnificent imo, nearly batman level ha.



ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?!?!?!?!??!  

He beat Shiva????? 

The same chick that beat the living shit out of Catwoman?


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 27, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> -He's slowly turning into a monster when it comes to using prep. I know a lot of people didnt like it, but him beating shiva was magnificent imo, nearly batman level ha.



God, I loved that issue.  It pretty much brought _Robin_ full-circle.  It was the perfect way to end the book and set up the next phase of Tim's heroic career.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?!?!?!?!??!
> 
> He beat Shiva?????
> 
> The same chick that beat the living shit out of Catwoman?



Robin 183.

Not only that but she's in the highest tier of DC martial artists, and is widely recognized as the most deadly assassin in the world.

She sent him a message saying that she was coming for him, and that he better be ready.

If you really wanna be spoiled on how he did it...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Apparently he knew she was coming before she left Hong Kong (which is a bit odd) He injected a heart rate jump induced paralytic poison into her chocolates at the hotel she was staying at, hours before the fight.

So when they fought Shiva got one or two hits in (and managed to break one or two ribs) then collapsed harmlessly to the floor.






Okkervil River said:


> God, I loved that issue.  It pretty much brought _Robin_ full-circle.  It was the perfect way to end the book and set up the next phase of Tim's heroic career.



That it did. Although im still not sure how i feel about Tim not being Robin anymore. I know he's definitely capable of flying solo, but Tim has made the Robin title into his own so well that its hard for me to separate him from the role. 

Admittedly this led to me DESPISING Damien for a while, but he's not so bad now, and Tim and Damiens animosity towards each other is becoming less annoying (I think they will forever be the competing siblings though)

Also, i cant see Tim's final mantle being anything but of the bat itself.

Bruce himself said it best - "Dick saw Robin as being a thrill. It's probably why he outgrew it. Jason saw it as a game. It's probably what got him killed. But...Tim...I have to hand it to the boy...He wants to be the world's greatest detective. And from what I've seen so far...he will be someday."

And the idea of the world's greatest detective being anyone but batman just seems weird to me.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 27, 2009)

When did Tim beat Shiva? What comic?

Yeah just finished reading Batman and Robin #3 and wrote my review. I thought it was ok, good story though.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 27, 2009)

Ya know, if I were rich and lived in the DCU, I swear to God I'd pay Drakkon to fight Shiva to the death. Just for the lulz of it.


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 27, 2009)

typhoon72 said:


> When did Tim beat Shiva? What comic?



Robin #183.  Saying he "beat" her is a bit of a misnomer though.



Chaos Ghost said:


> Ya know, if I were rich and lived in the DCU, I swear to God I'd pay Drakkon to fight Shiva to the death. Just for the lulz of it.



Drakon appearing in anything not written by Judd Winnick seems unlikely.  His character being an up-until-now unheard of martial arts assassin that was somehow _that_ much better than Connor Hawke didn't jive for me.  He handled Connor leagues more easily than Shiva did, which would seem to imply he would be even better than her.  But it certainly wasn't the only aspect of Winnick's _Green Arrow_ that I didn't buy.

He was also blatantly super-human.


----------



## Bender (Aug 27, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Robin 183.
> 
> Not only that but she's in the highest tier of DC martial artists, and is widely recognized as the most deadly assassin in the world.
> 
> ...



Wow....... that is hella lotsa lulz :rofl 

    

Sounds like something out of a Looney Tunes Cartoon. 

Did he say something like "You should've never told me you came" 

Wow...Hearing that reallly makes me angry that Damian managed to somehow kick his ass


----------



## Bender (Aug 27, 2009)

Aaaaah wait I just remembered something Deathstroke/Slade is considered the ultimate fighter and strategist in the DCU between him and Lady Shiva who's the strongest and smartest when it comes to combat?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Wow....... that is hella lotsa lulz :rofl
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It actually doesnt matter, since Robin knew that shiva was coming before the note was sent, which is a bit of bad writing, but whatever i'll take what i can get haha.

Had damien ever beat a calm and controlled tim drake? I've always attributed Damien's wins over Tim to his ability to reduce Tim to basically a mad dog. Which is a pretty respectable feat haha.


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 27, 2009)

Damian never beat Tim, did he?  He sucked-punched and knocked him off that ledge when Tim was trying to save him, but he's never beaten him in an actual fight, has he?  Or did I miss something somewhere?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Damian never beat Tim, did he?  He sucked-punched and knocked him off that ledge when Tim was trying to save him, but he's never beaten him in an actual fight, has he?  Or did I miss something somewhere?



They've fought a few times. There's never a clear victor, but thats mainly because they aren't really fights. More like brawls.

Their fights normally go down like this.
-Either Tim starts trying to command damien, or Tim starts talking down to Damien, intelligently pointing out his flaws.
-Damien goes right for the gut (Yea, well im batman's kid, you aren't...lulz)
-Tim responds with an eloquent "RARGHHGHGH!" and rushes him.


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 27, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> They've fought a few times. There's never a clear victor, but thats mainly because they aren't really fights. More like brawls.
> 
> Their fights normally go down like this.
> -Either Tim starts trying to command damien, or Tim starts talking down to Damien, intelligently pointing out his flaws.
> ...



I mean they've traded punches a few times and stopped, like in the first issue of Red Robin, but there hasn't been an actual "fight" since _Batman & Son_, have they?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> I mean they've traded punches a few times and stopped, like in the first issue of Red Robin, but there hasn't been an actual "fight" since _Batman & Son_, have they?



Don't think so. But i can see why someone would think Damien the winner of their tussles, since normally Damien still has his bratty smirk on while Tim is still enraged.

Who won in Batman & Son?

Also, its kinda funny how Tim is normally incredibly cool, intelligent, and composed...but when he loses it, he REALLY loses it. Jason Todd and Damien have both been able to really push Tim to super pissed off.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 27, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Robin #183.  Saying he "beat" her is a bit of a misnomer though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I loved how they never addressed how he was so fucking fast without being called a meta-human. I mean, dude was snatching arrows with ease. Dozens of arrows no less. 

I'd personally love to see someone actually, ya know, use him for stuff and explain shit. Which tbh needs to happen to alot of GA's modern villains.

As a fanboy I'm curious to see hear what these other things you didnt buy were.

Anywho, on the topic, I really enjoyed Sirens this week. Riddler being a  made that issue.


^^^ As I recall Tim ended up in a hostipal bed, but I think Damian cheap shotted him


----------



## Bender (Aug 27, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Damian never beat Tim, did he?  He sucked-punched and knocked him off that ledge when Tim was trying to save him, but he's never beaten him in an actual fight, has he?  Or did I miss something somewhere?



In the Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul he beat Tim over the head with a picture in the Wayne Mansion.  But in short no... There's never been any real clear victor. If it was a straight up fight where there's an actual REFEREE than yes he would get spanked. The only reason he wins in fights is by bum rushing people.  He'd do better in a gang than by Dick's side.



> Who won in Batman & Son?



Damien won....By cheating 

Fucking pussy uses brass knuckles in a fight


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> In the Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul he beat Tim over the head with a picture in the Wayne Mansion.  But in short no... There's never been any real clear victor. If it was a straight up fight where there's an actual REFEREE than yes he would get spanked. The only reason he wins in fights is by bum rushing people.  He'd do better in a gang than by Dick's side.



I dunno, i think Damien is a good fit for being Dick's sidekick. You can't deny that they are pretty fun together. 

But I hope that Damien isnt Bruce's robin when he comes back. Combined they are a bit too serious for my tastes.


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 27, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> As a fanboy I'm curious to see hear what these other things you didnt buy were.



Oh boy, it's been ages since I read it, and I only read one or two post-OYL issues before finally dropping the book, but I didn't like Winnick's characterization of any of the major characters, up to and including the new Speedy.  The HIV thing actually didn't bother me, considering Green Arrow's history of dealing with controversial issues, like Roy and his drug problem, but they all just sort of felt mishandled to me.  And I had been so stoked he was keeping Connor on board too, but it was mostly just to use him as a pincushion to piss Ollie off into going after foes seriously.  Also, if I recall correctly, there was this arc that introduced a female love interest for Ollie, built up their relationship, and then killed her to piss him off.  That really turned me off.  I mean, forget Women in Refrigerators or anything like that; it's just such an obvious cliché.

So yeah, I wasn't the biggest fan.


----------



## Bender (Aug 27, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> I dunno, i think Damien is a good fit for being Dick's sidekick. You can't deny that they are pretty fun together.
> 
> But I hope that Damien isnt Bruce's robin when he comes back. Combined they are a bit too serious for my tastes.



It wouldn't be much different from how both Bruce and Tim were


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 27, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Oh boy, it's been ages since I read it, and I only read one or two post-OYL issues before finally dropping the book, but I didn't like Winnick's characterization of any of the major characters, up to and including the new Speedy.  The HIV thing actually didn't bother me, considering the character's history of dealing with controversial issues, like Roy and his drug problem, but they all just sort of felt mishandled to me.  And I had been so stoked he was keeping Connor on board too, but it was mostly just to use him as a pincushion to piss Ollie off into going after foes seriously.  Also, if I recall correctly, there was this arc that introduced a female love interest for Ollie, built up there relationship, and then killed her to piss him off.  That really turned me off.  I mean, forget Women in Refrigerators or anything like that; it's just such an obvious clich?.
> 
> So yeah, I wasn't the biggest fan.



At first I liked the fact that Black Lightning's neice got killed, because it kinda set up the guilty Ollie thing(as if cheating wasn't bad enough, he gets the fucking chick killed...a chick who is one of his closest friends relative) but when they piled that on with other stuff it just became a book about Ollie being emo the whole time about various shit. Once Mia became Speedy, it kinda picked up because there wasn't as much emo BS. 

Then Speedy got HIV. I love how most of that basiclly Ollie being a bitch about it more so than Mia dealing with it,. It's like she brokedown once, and then she liked blocked it out after that. 

But as a fanboy, I still loved it more than I should've


----------



## Bender (Aug 27, 2009)

LOL

I'm reading at the synopsis for Captain America Reborn lol

I'm kind of confused is it Marvel stealing from DC comics on concepts of revival of fan favorites characters or vice versa.


----------



## Okkervil River (Aug 27, 2009)

That volume started out so well too that it's a shame how ambivalent I became toward it.  That was the first time I really understood why people complained about Judd Winnick, and it remains the only thing of his I've read and actively tended to dislike.  I didn't hate it, I guess, but his run was such a let down for me, as a fan of that whole cast.  And when GA/BC was announced along with him as the writer I was just >.

I still haven't given GA/BC a chance outside of the first issue, even with him no longer writing it.  Is it worth it?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2009)

While we're on the topic, could someone recommend me some good modern Green Arrow stories? mid 90s to current.

I've always liked the characters (Ollie, Connor, and RA), i just never picked up the books.

Feel free to PM me if you dont wanna cloud up the thread.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 27, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> That volume started out so well too that it's a shame how ambivalent I became toward it.  That was the first time I really understood why people complained about Judd Winnick, and it remains the only thing of his I've read and actively tended to dislike.  I didn't hate it, I guess, but his run was such a let down for me, as a fan of that whole cast.  And when GA/BC was announced along with him as the writer I was just >.
> 
> I still haven't given GA/BC a chance outside of the first issue, even with him no longer writing it.  Is it worth it?



I cant be a fair judge. i hate the series for ruining Conner and then sending he and Mia on a bus. Though the arc where they save Ollie from the Amazons and the last one with that new villain they introduced were decent enough. New arc looks promising....but unless your an Ollie/ Dinah fanboy I wouldn't recommend it.

EDIT: Windwaker, the first three arcs of Green Arrow Volume 3 are stellar. And the final arc of that volume is good too. There some good stories in V2, but it's all kinda blur to me


----------



## Bender (Aug 29, 2009)

Riddler is a motherfucking pimp

Also for once the art in Gotham City Sirens  looks good

Also goddamn Ivy is one hypocritical bitch

Riddler's right she DID kidnap him and Catwoman ain't do shit except say 

"Very good"


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 29, 2009)

I think you meant 'Also for once the _writing_ in Gotham City Sirens was good' 

art was always ok at least.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 29, 2009)

Its the DC Comic equivilant to plastic surgery


----------



## Castiel (Sep 2, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #690 preview_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 2, 2009)

Lol fodder teleporters.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 2, 2009)

ah he's teleporting to the batcave


----------



## mow (Sep 2, 2009)

god the art on Batman makes me want to hurl


----------



## Taleran (Sep 2, 2009)

Damn Quitely owns


----------



## Slice (Sep 2, 2009)

This is beyond awesome!


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 2, 2009)

I've never read the Killing Joke.


----------



## firefist (Sep 2, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> I've never read the Killing Joke.


go do it now, its awesome.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 2, 2009)

Taleran said:


> Damn Quitely owns


That's why I'm doing a school project on him


ghstwrld said:


> I've never read the Killing Joke.



Fix that now.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 2, 2009)

I was wondering how _exactly_ Black Mask beat Penguin.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 2, 2009)

Taleran said:


> Damn Quitely owns



My mind just fucking exploded.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 2, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> My mind just fucking exploded.



I keep feel like I'm missing something here


----------



## Okkervil River (Sep 2, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I keep feel like I'm missing something here



It looks like his face.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 2, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> It looks like his face.



Ok, that I caught, but I thought there waas more to it that I was missing


----------



## mow (Sep 2, 2009)

save it in a folder and look at the thumbnail, the similarity is incredible, except Quitely's looks a hell more disturbing.

Cant wait for him to draw the joker in the last arc, it's going to be epic.


----------



## Okkervil River (Sep 2, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Ok, that I caught, but I thought there waas more to it that I was missing



It _really_ looks like his face =D.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 2, 2009)

but did Quitely have anything to do with the logo?


----------



## shit (Sep 2, 2009)

damn, once you see it, you can't unsee it


----------



## Taleran (Sep 2, 2009)

mow said:


> save it in a folder and look at the thumbnail, the similarity is incredible, except Quitely's looks a hell more disturbing.
> 
> Cant wait for him to draw the joker in the last arc, it's going to be epic.



I really like how Morrison does Joker aswell so this is double plus


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 2, 2009)

I just want Joker in his The Batman straight jacket. God I loved that


----------



## Castiel (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm still sticking to my personal theory that when Joker shows up again he's going to be reinvented like he was in #663 after he got shot


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 3, 2009)

I bout the issue yesterday but didnt read it til today, and i feel stupid for it. This issue was fuckin great, and i cannot wait til the Black Mask gets his ass handed to him (whenever that will be)

THE COIN!


----------



## Castiel (Sep 4, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Red Robin #4 preview_


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 4, 2009)

Looks good, art looks overcolored or something though

Sidenote: just read the killing joke...best.shit.ever.


----------



## Bender (Sep 5, 2009)

Damn Tim is getting sloppy


----------



## Taleran (Sep 5, 2009)

> In Batman #666, Damian says that three different figures in the black casebook have claimed to be related to Satan. We know that the first one was Dr. Hurt, and the third one is the anti-Christ Batman that he fights in that very issue.
> 
> Professor Pyg's monologue is rife with references to matriachal monsters: Mormo, Medusa and Tiamat. There are also references to motherhood and creation: Tohu va Bohu and Tiamat again. However, there's also a lot of references to infliction of insanity: the bizzare frame that Pyg puts words into is reminiscint of a psychological experiment where a monkey was fed through a bottle attached to a cold and barren frame, causing psychological damage. An experiment along the same lines by the same researcher had him place monkeys into a "Despair pit" to measure the effects of solitary confinement, which Pyg also references. The most blatant reference though, is the fair's similiarity to the one in The Killing Joke, where the Joker attempts to manufacture a monster like himself out of Gordon. Gordon even comments on this saying that he'd prefer the fair to burn down.
> 
> ...




I like it alot


----------



## Bender (Sep 5, 2009)

Taleran said:


> I like it alot



How can Doctor Hurt be Satan? I thought he left the DC verse forever.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 10, 2009)

Okay Tim I like where you are going now 
*Spoiler*: __ 



finding Bruce's Cave paintings


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 10, 2009)

That's what we figured it'd be.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2009)

Bout time this happened. At least it adds a bit of legitamicy to what he's doing as opposed to just "GUYS HE'S ALIVE, TRUST ME!". Although he'll have to wait till bruce actually comes back before he can do his epic "I told you so" dance.

Lookin forward to pickin this up.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 10, 2009)

Next up: TIME TRAVEL.

Ha. Tim trying to find Rip Hunter.


----------



## Agmaster (Sep 10, 2009)

Wait..new Red Robin?


----------



## Gabe (Sep 10, 2009)

in what comic do batmans underlings and friends learn darksied kills him. i being trying to look for it.


----------



## Bender (Sep 10, 2009)

^
They learn about in their own issues 

Also finally Tim found the cave paintings.

It's a damn shame his team is dead tho


----------



## Castiel (Sep 10, 2009)

took 4 issues, but Yost is finally writting a good Tim Drake


> It's a damn shame his team is dead tho


um ... you have heard of something called *A LAZARUS PIT?*  anyways I think Pru might pull through


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 10, 2009)

No matter how they say that the Lazarus Pits are limited in number, no one really counts.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> took 4 issues, but Yost is finally writting a good Tim Drake
> 
> um ... you have heard of something called *A LAZARUS PIT?*  anyways I think Pru might pull through



In particular i liked the bit about how Tim valued how Ra's always called batman "the detective."


----------



## Castiel (Sep 10, 2009)




----------



## Bender (Sep 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> took 4 issues, but Yost is finally writting a good Tim Drake
> 
> um ... you have heard of something called *A LAZARUS PIT?*  anyways I think Pru might pull through



Oh shit I forgot all about that


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 10, 2009)

Yeah I read it. I wonder if he really is still alive? And I mean alive, not like being reborn or anything.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 10, 2009)

Tim: " Dick I need to find Booster Gold"

Dic: "oh he just left, and he says he'll be gone for a while"


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 10, 2009)

I knew i shoulda read Booster Gold...


----------



## Castiel (Sep 10, 2009)

I was joking, cause the next issue of BG has Dick, Damian and Michael teaming up to save reality.


----------



## shit (Sep 10, 2009)

Detective Comics sucks. I hate Batwoman. Because of moving, I'm stuck reading this tripe instead of Red Robin.  Having your comics mailed to you is such a hassle.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 10, 2009)

Detective Comics is a much better comic than Red Robin. 

And I say that even though I like Red Robin.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Detective Comics is a much better comic than Red Robin.
> 
> And I say that even though I like Red Robin.



I can't say i agree (on the *much*, i agree with better), mainly cuz im a pretty big timtard...but calling Detective comics tripe is just plain ridonkulous.


----------



## shit (Sep 10, 2009)

It's not my thing at all....... Maybe tripe was too strong, but I dislike it more than any other comic I buy. But that will be rectified forthwith.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 10, 2009)

you're weird.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 10, 2009)

Juggalo said:


> It's not my thing at all....... Maybe tripe was too strong, but I dislike it more than any other comic I buy. *But that will be rectified forthwith.*



You're going to buy Teen Titans?


----------



## shit (Sep 11, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> you're weird.





Petes12 said:


> You're going to buy Teen Titans?



wat?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2009)

If you were to buy Teen Titans then clearly you would be buying a comic you like less than Detective Comics.

Cus Teen Titans sucks. I like taking shots at it.


----------



## shit (Sep 11, 2009)

Oh I meant I'll stop buying DetCom.

How dare you try to trick me into buying TT.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2009)

Juggalo said:


> wat?



Teen Titans is a book that most people on this board would agree is worthy of the term "tripe", probably more than any other book.

Us titans fans miss you geoff!


----------



## shit (Sep 11, 2009)

Teen Titans is a pretty cool cartoon and nothing else, far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Teen Titans is a book that most people on this board would agree is worthy of the term "tripe", probably more than any other book not written by Jeph Loeb.


fixed. **


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2009)

Juggalo said:


> Oh I meant I'll stop buying DetCom.
> 
> How dare you try to trick me into buying TT.



Yeah I knew what you meant, but just so you know... it's not ok to dislike DC


----------



## shit (Sep 11, 2009)

Well obviously there's no arguing this with you guys.

Where does Batwoman's origin happen? Maybe that'll help.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2009)

Next arc. We don't know it yet, but you can obviously guess a lot of it just from this first arc. 

DC is basically the first time they're really doing anything with the character.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> fixed. **



Thanks for the post repair.

How silly of me to forget Jeph Loeb 

and i need to start reading DC more. I picked up the first few, then just stopped. I think i'll wait a bit before getting the Trades.


----------



## shit (Sep 11, 2009)

So she just appeared sometime around 52 and has been lurking ever since?

There's just too much going on that I don't know anything about. If there's no backstory to read on Kate, High Abbot, these were-people, and blonde no face, there's no point for me.
Also the art's a turn off to me. I can see why people would dig it, but it makes me dread trudging through an issue.
Besides I started the subscription way back for Batman, and I hate to be duped into trying to learn a new character. Of course this is when I'm expected to understand Dick and Damian at the same time, despite them only appearing in signature Bat-titles at odd times.

I'm trying to get more into DC (publisher), but I'm only leg deep so far. This means going slow, so no auxillary titles with auxillary heros cause I'll obviously be lost, and that's no fun.

This is why I wish I could read Red Robin instead since that deals with what I know.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 11, 2009)

Most of the characters are new, but all you need to know is that the religion of crime, who Batwoman is fighting, wanted to sacrifice her for some prophecy bullshit. And they're bad guys.

I don't know what to say about the art. How can you have to trudge through it? It's not like the layout is confusing. It's just really good art with some cool panel designs.


----------



## Bender (Sep 11, 2009)

Btw guys I picked up Batman Hush last week and I wanna ask you guys what'd you think of the arc?


----------



## shit (Sep 11, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Most of the characters are new, but all you need to know is that the religion of crime, who Batwoman is fighting, wanted to sacrifice her for some prophecy bullshit. And they're bad guys.
> 
> I don't know what to say about the art. How can you have to trudge through it? It's not like the layout is confusing. It's just really good art with some cool panel designs.



So religion of crime is what happened in 52, yes? I kinda remember her almost being sacrificed, and I guess it was there. A shallow criminal organization only rly works for me when someone recognizable spearheads it. I suppose I'm being impatient with the rising action...

I guess I'm not highbrow enough to appreciate the art. The frilly style and text styles puts me off, and it's hard to follow during the action. Wolf guy gets shot all to hell, but he's unscathed two panels later. Stuff like that bites my ass, and I guess I just blame the artist for it. Prolly not fair.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 11, 2009)

Abbot and Whisper have been given extensive back stories in Rucka's post NML run.  He's revisting them and putting them in his new Church of Crime mythos.



also I know everyone is entitle to an opinion but saying anything bad about JH Williams isn't an opinion, it's gibberish.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 11, 2009)

The guy was the artist for Promethea, for pity's sake.

IMO, Promethea is arguably the best example of maximizing the potential of the comic book medium.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 11, 2009)

I also love his layouts and designs.  and how he switches his style between Kane and BW


----------



## Bender (Sep 11, 2009)

Yo you guys know how Bruno Mannheim said he didn't know who was in charge of Intergang? Well, I was thinking about it for a while and came up with this conclusion: Doctor Hurt is in charge of Intergang. The whole Black Glove arc was an alluding to Sherlock Holmes story in a way. Batman and Hurt's showdown was similar to Holmes and Doctor Moriarty's showdown at Reihabach falls and only one person made it out of the fight alive. Also one of Hurt's lackeys refer to him as the king of crime. Tell me what do you guys think of it?


----------



## Agmaster (Sep 11, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> The guy was the artist for Promethea, for pity's sake.
> 
> IMO, Promethea is arguably the *best example of maximizing the potential of the comic book medium*.


Elaborate in laymen's terms or I'm calling shenanigans of the uppity variety.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 11, 2009)

:WOW:WOW:WOW*CAMERON STEWART IS DOING THE 3RD B&R ARC*:WOW:WOW:WOW


----------



## Slice (Sep 11, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> The guy was the artist for Promethea, for pity's sake.
> 
> IMO, Promethea is arguably the best example of maximizing the potential of the comic book medium.



And Promethea will be collected in Absolutes soon, that should then be about the time when i need a second job or consider something like robbing a bank


----------



## Castiel (Sep 11, 2009)

colored image 



plus interview



> *IGN Comics: Cameron, let's go through the most obvious question – what led to your assignment on Batman and Robin? What appealed to you about the series? *
> 
> Cameron Stewart: Well, very shortly after I'd heard Grant and Frank were working on Batman, I sent Grant an email gently suggesting that if they needed a fill-in artist I would be happy to volunteer. I did a few unsolicited sketches, which I posted up on my blog to see what reader reaction was, and it seemed to be generally positive. I was initially told, however, that the art chores were all booked up and disappointedly resigned myself to a Bat-free life, but then shortly before the San Diego Comic Con this year I got an official offer from B&R editor Mike Marts to draw an arc.
> 
> ...


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 11, 2009)

So, no more Frazer Irving?


----------



## Castiel (Sep 11, 2009)

seems he backed out.   still Stewart is a fine artist so I don't really mind.


----------



## Bender (Sep 12, 2009)

Question you guys: What issue is it that Batman adopts Cassandra Cain?





^


The end of the issue is followed by image above and Cassandra hugging Bats


----------



## Slice (Sep 13, 2009)

The 2009 six issue Batgirl mini.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 13, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> seems he backed out.   still Stewart is a fine artist so I don't really mind.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 13, 2009)

we still got 3 issues of Batrelated stuff from Irving in the Azrael mini, that's something.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 14, 2009)

this


----------



## Castiel (Sep 14, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Streets of Gotham #4 main story preview_ 


















*Spoiler*: _Manhunter co-feature preview_


----------



## Castiel (Sep 15, 2009)

damage

Yost interview


----------



## Castiel (Sep 15, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batgirl #2 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Sep 15, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Outsiders #22 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Sep 15, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman & Robin #4 preview_ 





















Big Bat-week isn't it?


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2009)

> Chained in the burning lake? That sure was worse
> What if the breath that kindled those grim fires
> Awaked, should blow them into sevenfold rage
> And plunge us into flames; or from above
> ...



oh and after reading through alot of Bat stories again If I had to rank em I'd go

1. RIP
2. Killing Joke / Birth of the Demon
3. Year 100
4. Gaslight
5. Rest


----------



## Castiel (Sep 15, 2009)

I'm surprised Morrison has yet to bring up the Shadowless Man from Gothic.

I mean, Morrison heavily implied that the Shadowless Man was at least partly responsible for the death of the Waynes (Thomas pulled him from school when he found out he was a p*d*p**** who was after Bruce).  Also he specifically went to hell at the end of the story, a demon cut out his heart and everything.


I mean the very Hurt/Satan/Thomas Wayne connection should be enough of a reason to bring him back.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 16, 2009)

I don't like Steph-Batgirl, but I like how they designed her costume as a sort of an homage to Cass and Babs.


----------



## mow (Sep 16, 2009)

I read the first issue and it just left a bad taste of meh in my mouth. I'll give it a shot again once an arc or 2 are done. But I doubt my thoughts will change. Never cared for spoiler/steph ever in my life.


----------



## Bender (Sep 16, 2009)

I am not liking Dick as the Batman. so far the kid has proven to be a bore snore. He's Nightwing and no one else.


----------



## mow (Sep 16, 2009)

It's the Damien Wayne show for a reason


----------



## Castiel (Sep 16, 2009)

mow said:


> I read the first issue and it just left a bad taste of meh in my mouth. I'll give it a shot again once an arc or 2 are done. But I doubt my thoughts will change. Never cared for spoiler/steph ever in my life.



you're just down on it cause it came out the same month as Nomad aren't you?


----------



## mow (Sep 16, 2009)

...

yes.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 16, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I don't like Steph-Batgirl, but I like how they designed her costume as a sort of an homage to Cass and Babs.




Batgirl disappoints with zero flair, zero wonder, and zero bravura.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 16, 2009)

good week for Batman.  B&R #4 was pretty darn good, sure Tan is no Quitely, Irving or Stewart but he brought his A game.  Red Hood makes me 

Streets of Gotham was also pretty good too.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 16, 2009)

B&R 4 made me hate Tan more for the Agent Orange artwork. 

SoG doesn't really seem to have rhyme nor reason. Just a bunch of random, loosely tied together events each month.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Sep 16, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I don't like Steph-Batgirl, but I like how they designed her costume as a sort of an homage to Cass and Babs.



Steph was better off being Spoiler, they should have keps Cass as Batgirl and tried to retcon the one year later crap.


----------



## Bender (Sep 17, 2009)

Emperor Joker said:


> Steph was better off being Spoiler, they should have keps Cass as Batgirl and tried to retcon the one year later crap.



Hopefully, they kill her off as quickly and painfully as Bart Allen as the Flash was


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 17, 2009)

Am I the only one who likes Steph-Batgirl?

Also, Batman and Robin was damn good. Red Hood


----------



## Slice (Sep 17, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Am I the only one who likes Steph-Batgirl?
> 
> Also, Batman and Robin was damn good. Red Hood



It's not like Steph is bad, it's just that Cass was better. As i said earlier the supporting cast will make or break that book.


Also why cant Quitely draw B&R to all eternity? The artwork alone is so godly i would even buy this if it did not have any dialogue.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 17, 2009)




----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 17, 2009)

Slice said:


> It's not like Steph is bad, it's just that Cass was better. As i said earlier the supporting cast will make or break that book.
> 
> 
> Also why cant Quitely draw B&R to all eternity? The artwork alone is so godly i would even buy this if it did not have any dialogue.



Eh, I think I wanna see what these "big things" that they have planned for Cass are going to be. Then I can decide if I want her as Batgirl or not. Till then, Steph is my gal


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 17, 2009)

Already, I miss Quitely.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2009)

Taleran said:


>



I almost hate it when Morrison does that- he just sticks in this really out of place, completely insane line or panel or scene somewhere. And you _know_ it's going to be relevant later, but I always forget about them by next month and then the new issue is confusing as hell and I have to go back and reread 

Also, if Red Hood is Jason Todd... I dunno, doesn't he seem too smart to be Jason Todd?


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 18, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> I almost hate it when Morrison does that- he just sticks in this really out of place, completely insane line or panel or scene somewhere. And you _know_ it's going to be relevant later, but I always forget about them by next month and then the new issue is confusing as hell and I have to go back and reread
> 
> Also, if Red Hood is Jason Todd... I dunno, doesn't he seem too smart to be Jason Todd?



I haven't seen him do anything super smart yet....or at least above and beyond Jason's level of intelligence. Plus, he's pretty smart. He did put together that whole Batman v Brick/ Green Arrow v Red Hood thing/ plant the seed of villiany in Speedy's head thingy.


----------



## Bender (Sep 18, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Eh, I think I wanna see what these "big things" that they have planned for Cass are going to be. Then I can decide if I want her as Batgirl or not. Till then, Steph is my gal



Yes 

Steph can never be a bad-ass bone-breaker like Cassandra


----------



## Slice (Sep 18, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Also, if Red Hood is Jason Todd... I dunno, doesn't he seem too smart to be Jason Todd?



Jason might be insane but he is nonetheless pretty smart. He was a Robin after all and for this job you got to have the brains too.


----------



## Bender (Sep 18, 2009)

^

Not to mention Jason tricked some petty thug into being his replacement for fighting the Black Mask when he was trolling his criminal organization.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Yes
> 
> Steph can never be a bad-ass bone-breaker like Cassandra



That doesn't make her bad

Also, while we're naming Todd smart feats, didnt he shut down Titans Tower just to rapestomp Tim?


----------



## Slice (Sep 18, 2009)

I also like how the Red Hood is perfectly manipulating Scarlet to help him. She really seems to accept this all as her ideas and own choice to do this stuff.

Poor girl, this just can not end well


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 18, 2009)

I will say its the first time Jason Todd's been interesting in forever, if that's who it is.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 18, 2009)

Im gonna like this arc. It's what Battle for the Cowl should've been.


----------



## Bender (Sep 18, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> That doesn't make her bad



Yes, that's why people liked Batgirl series in the first place  Cassandra was  a bad-ass reincarnation of  Karate kid Ralph Malchio 
 Shes what Charlie Brown wouldve been if he got tired of people moving the football when he went to kick it.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Yes, that's why people liked Batgirl series in the first place  Cassandra was  a bad-ass reincarnation of  Karate kid Ralph Malchio
> Shes what Charlie Brown wouldve been if he got tired of people moving the football when he went to kick it.



Ugh, that's the same bullshit that lead to Jason Todd getting killed.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 18, 2009)

Jason Todd is still my favorite Robin.. well product of being Robin.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 18, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Jason Todd is still my favorite Robin.. well product of being Robin.



From the back issues Ive read, he was interesting post-Crisis when he had an edge to him. But then since he wasnt a Dick clone anymore, people started whining and bitching to the point that they killed the character off.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 18, 2009)

Yeah, he wasn't bad. People (as always) were just afraid of change and reacted negatively.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 18, 2009)

he was a douche, but he wasn't used as well as Damian is now.  so he came off as annoying instead of cool.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 18, 2009)

Damian vs. Jason. . . 

Who'd annoy you first?


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 18, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Damian vs. Jason. . .
> 
> Who'd annoy you first?



Damian. He can get kinda bratty. Both are awesome though.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 18, 2009)

Damian musing on the housing market after beating a thug up with a baseball bat


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 20, 2009)

Is Jason's sidekick the same pyg girl from the last issues?


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 20, 2009)

Seriously? Of course it is.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 20, 2009)

its not gonna be Jason


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 20, 2009)

lol just making sure, didnt want to get it wrong on the review


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 20, 2009)

Taleran said:


> its not gonna be Jason



I'm kinda 50-50 as to if it'll be him or not. I hope it is, but a new character might be better. 

Either way, Jason needs to be one of Dick's rogues.


----------



## Bender (Sep 20, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Damian vs. Jason. . .
> 
> Who'd annoy you first?



Jason has regained some sanity and isn't bitching about how greatly traumatized he is by being beaten with a crowbar by the Joker so I'm to go with  Damian.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 21, 2009)

not 50-50.  33-33-33

Jason, Sexton and Joker


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2009)

No way it's Joker. It's probably Sexton, possibly Jason.


----------



## Slice (Sep 21, 2009)

I would have never even thought about the Joker, somehow i can not see him acting like this. Also we need the epic "Joker realizes Batman was replaced" storyline.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Sep 21, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> not 50-50.  33-33-33
> 
> Jason, Sexton and Joker



You're math's off. That would leave a 1% possibility of being someone else


*Spoiler*: __ 



Bruce!?!??!


----------



## mow (Sep 21, 2009)

Jason is too obvious a choice for Morrison to pick imo. Joker seems so left field that I honestly think it would work.

Also, whatever happened to Hush? Last I recall he was in the pent house of Wayne tower.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2009)

...are you reading Streets of Gotham at all?


----------



## mow (Sep 21, 2009)

Not at all. Only book I'm  following on monthly basis from Batman Reborn is B. The rest I'm waiting for the first arcs to wrap up then I'll hop on them.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2009)

ok, well he features prominently in that book.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 21, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #857 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Sep 21, 2009)

> *BATMAN #694
> Written by Tony Daniel
> Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> Cover by Tony Daniel*
> ...








> *DETECTIVE COMICS #860
> Written by Greg Rucka
> Art by JH Williams III; co-feature art by Cully Hamner
> Cover by JH Williams III
> ...









> *AZRAEL #3
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Ramon Bachs & John Stanisci
> Cover by Jock*
> ...








> *ARKHAM REBORN #3
> Written by David Hine
> Art by Jeremy Haun
> Cover by Frazer Irving*
> ...









> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #7
> Written by Paul Dini; co-feature written by Marc Andreyko
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs; co-feature art by Jeremy Haun
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen*    Paul Dini returns to STREETS OF GOTHAM as Batman and Robin uncover a sinister plot involving dozens of Gotham City’s young runaways. Is Arkham Asylum escapee Humpty Dumpty at the center of the scheme – or is he just the tip of an even more dangerous iceberg? Guest-starring Abuse and Zsasz!
> ...









> *BATGIRL #5
> Written by Bryan Q. Miller
> Art by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott
> Cover by Phil Noto*
> ...









> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #7
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art and cover by Guillem March*
> Catwoman takes charge as the other Sirens fall victim to their most dangerous challenge yet!
> On sale December 23 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US









> *RED ROBIN #7
> Written by Christopher Yost
> Art by Marcus To & Dexter Vines
> Cover by Marcus To & Ray McCarthy*
> ...








> *WORLD’S FINEST #3
> Written by Sterling Gates
> Art by Jamal Igle
> Covers by Phil Noto*
> ...


----------



## Bender (Sep 21, 2009)

I hope Damian kicks the shit out of Stephanie


----------



## Bender (Sep 21, 2009)

I can't wait for Batman # 692


----------



## mow (Sep 21, 2009)

Im just glad that doofus isnt drawing batman


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 21, 2009)

Tiffany Fox is a POC, correct?  Hmm....


----------



## Castiel (Sep 22, 2009)

Quitely taking too long, now doing 5th arc instead of 4th arc.  Frazer Irving doing 4th arc.


----------



## mow (Sep 22, 2009)

...5th arc? I though it was just 12 issues? 

in any case, more grant on bats? yaaay! plus irving is ace so it's win-win across the board


----------



## Castiel (Sep 22, 2009)

B&R is an ongoing, not a limited.  So really it'll run as long as it'll take for Quitely to finish his next arc.

So as of now B&R is 15 issues long


----------



## Castiel (Sep 23, 2009)

Tiny Titan's slow and gradual take over of the universe continues


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 23, 2009)

Those aren't the Tiny Titans, they're the Lil' Leagers. N00b.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 23, 2009)

no, they're Lil' Gotham

and I meant their influence is strong


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 23, 2009)

Lil' Gotham? I wonder how the Joker is there.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 23, 2009)

cheap nike air

also a marvel one cheap nike air


----------



## Castiel (Sep 23, 2009)

I love JH Williams III's art


----------



## LIL_M0 (Sep 23, 2009)

Everyone should.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 25, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Gotham City Sirens #4 preview_


----------



## Bender (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm anxious to see Harley with Hush or should I say Bruce Wayne


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 26, 2009)

I just read the whole run of All Star Batman and Robin, and thought it was legendary as hell. Then I look it up on google and find everyone hates it...

It really shouldnt have been canned...


----------



## Castiel (Sep 26, 2009)

not canned, it's just that Jim Lee is really, really slow.  Plus he's busy as hell.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 26, 2009)

great news to me then, i love that series


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2009)

typhoon72 said:


> I just read the whole run of All Star Batman and Robin, and thought it was legendary as hell. Then I look it up on google and find everyone hates it...
> 
> It really shouldnt have been canned...



I don't get why people hate it so much, IMO anyone who really hates ASBAR is taking the book way too seriously.

If you look at it as Frank Miller having fun spoofing himself (by taking his characters from his other works and just turning it up to 11), then it gets a lot more fun.

Ha and the way he always repeats himself is hilarious....is hilarious.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 26, 2009)

he's not spoofing himself that was something editorial started saying after the huge backlash


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 26, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> he's not spoofing himself that was something editorial started saying after the huge backlash



Well i still think he's just having fun taking his style of writing to its absolute maximum.

I enjoy it, in the same way i enjoy the latest rambo movie, or the crank movies.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 26, 2009)

no, the man has simply lost it

just watch the Spirit.

also the interviews he did when the Spirit came out.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 27, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> he's not spoofing himself that was something editorial started saying after the huge backlash



Yes, the post the fact rationalisation of Loeb's crap must stop.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 27, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Yes, the post the fact rationalisation of Loeb's crap must stop.



Wait where did Loeb come into this?


----------



## Bender (Sep 27, 2009)

Seriously, what is up with all this Jeph Loeb hate?   I know you hate his ideas n' stuff but you do realize he's responsible for Hush one of the greatest Batman stories told?


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 27, 2009)

even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while


----------



## Slice (Sep 27, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Seriously, what is up with all this Jeph Loeb hate?   I know you hate his ideas n' stuff but you do realize he's responsible for *"The long Halloween"* one of the *better* Batman stories told?



Fixed



Hush was enjoyable but one if the greatest? No way


----------



## Castiel (Sep 27, 2009)

heh, so Red Hood was originally supposed to look more like a cowboy


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 27, 2009)

The latter stages of Loeb and Miller's careers are so similar; it's totally easy to mix them up.


----------



## Bender (Sep 27, 2009)

Btw guys do you think the Falcone Crime Family will return 



Slice said:


> Fixed
> 
> 
> 
> Hush was enjoyable but one if the greatest? No way



Oh crap I forgot to mention that one


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 27, 2009)

I thought all the important members were long killed off.


----------



## mow (Sep 29, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> heh, so Red Hood was originally supposed to look more like a cowboy




RH with Saint of Killers attire


----------



## Bender (Sep 29, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I thought all the important members were long killed off.



I'm not sure we saw what happened to Sophia Falcone


----------



## Castiel (Sep 30, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman Annual #27 preview_


----------



## neodragzero (Sep 30, 2009)

Time Drake. One of the very few characters that can believe something to be true to the point of looking insane but actually is right...


----------



## Parallax (Oct 1, 2009)

I have no interest in annuals so I'll probably skip this one.

Ive been really enjoying a lot of the Batman series as of late though


----------



## Castiel (Oct 1, 2009)

the annuals are basically preludes to the Azrael monthly


----------



## Parallax (Oct 1, 2009)

Now I know for sure I'll skip it


----------



## Castiel (Oct 1, 2009)

I personally though the bftc Azrael mini was pretty good


----------



## Agmaster (Oct 1, 2009)

neodragzero said:


> *Time *Drake. One of the very few characters that can believe something to be true to the point of looking insane but actually is right...


What you did there, friend.  I saw it.


----------



## mow (Oct 1, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I personally though the bftc Azrael mini was pretty good



Def. Im torn between picking it or Arkhum Asylum as the best thing to come out of btfc


----------



## Castiel (Oct 1, 2009)

Azrael had irving interiors


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 1, 2009)

Azrael was marred by that crappy second issue. 

Damian's calling them Robin and Batman, haha


----------



## Castiel (Oct 2, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman and Robin #5 preview_ 















so it is Jason, unless this is Morrison trying to trick us, or he could want us to think he's trying to trick us.


----------



## Lucaniel (Oct 2, 2009)

> "Suddenly, we’d have a Batman who would be a lot more like Spider-Man, which I think would be really funny to see.”



Yeah, hilarious.

/dredging up the first page


----------



## Castiel (Oct 2, 2009)

Naruto artbook

lengthy JHW3 interview


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 2, 2009)

urghhh tan... reign it in buddy. Why does he like to do Red Hood in strange unnatural poses?


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 2, 2009)

Link removed


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 3, 2009)

Agmaster said:


> What you did there, friend.  I saw it.



I felyt so much rage in that post

Also, all I got to read was Gotham City Sirens this week

Fucking economy


----------



## Bender (Oct 4, 2009)

LOL @ latest Gotham City Sirens

Hush really thinks he would get away with knocking Harley off the building 

I'm confused a bit by this greedy little bastard however, he's got the entire Wayne foundation fortune and he still wants to get even with Selina for ripping him off.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 4, 2009)

I would like Amanda Connor to draw at least one issue of Gotham Sirens.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 6, 2009)

What sucks most: Gotham City Sirens or Batgirl? 
*
*EDIT:* It's Batgirl


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 6, 2009)

Batgirl, for backtracking on Barbara's characterization.

See, I can look beyond Cassandra Cain.

Gotham City Sirens. . . I don't mind much. It's decent. But most people like it for the cheesecake.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 6, 2009)

The latest issue made me laugh. I hated Robot Joker but I laughed at Hush's inner monologue. This is the first issue of Sirens that I've enjoyed.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 7, 2009)

I liked Flamingo's design and I like him showing Jason what a retard he is


----------



## Castiel (Oct 7, 2009)

I liked the Batman Annual.  Also aside from Morrison, Nicieza writes the best Dick/Damian dialogue.


also i liked B&R, neat retcon by Morrison that Jason is actually a redhead, but Bruce made him dye it so that he looks like Dick.  Also get it *RED* Hood 


also Jason's logic fails.  The iPod raped and murdered the Walkman because of the huge gap in technology that increase efficiency.

Dick has a flying Batmobile, Jason apparently runs to crime scenes


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 7, 2009)

The analogy works fine, or are you just kidding? Cus the walkman was crushed by the i-pod which represents the next generation of music, and Jason is trying to replace the old superheroes with the new ones that kill. 

Also Morrison's done a great job with making Jason not a retarded character, so now I kinda hope he's _not_ dead for once.


As for Batgirl and Sirens... I dunno the Riddler issue of Sirens was ok and I too liked Hush thinking about killing Harley, but nothing else has worked in that book. And I'm almost certain that the Barbara characterization is editorially mandated because it's showed up elsewhere as well, so I want to give Batgirl a pass on that fault.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 7, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #691 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Oct 7, 2009)

> or are you just kidding?


----------



## typhoon72 (Oct 7, 2009)

Dent moly-whoppin Dicks ass

(that didnt sound right)

Batman and Robin #5 was beyond great.


----------



## Bender (Oct 7, 2009)

LOL

Dent is right Dick is a fail detective 

Also damn right Dick why yousa gotta smile so big


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 7, 2009)

I love the bit where Two-Face caught Dick with a smile.

. . . Take the above out of context, and it will serve for some awkwardness.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm glad that red/blue Two-Face wasn't real.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 7, 2009)

Shit, I forgot it was New comic day, and apparently we had some Jason Todd sightings.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 7, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> I'm glad that red/blue Two-Face wasn't real.



I really doubt that Two-Face would dress up like that.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 8, 2009)

anyone else find it hilarious that Jason is using phone polls to help his case?

(FYI - Jason died because fans voted in a phone poll to kill him off)


----------



## Castiel (Oct 8, 2009)




----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeah, I caught that too.

But I'm surprised at the red hair.

But good on Morrison for briefly referencing Hush.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 8, 2009)

apparently pre-crisis Jason Todd *DID* have red hair and dyed it.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 8, 2009)

Now THAT'S new to me.


----------



## Bender (Oct 8, 2009)

Same here


----------



## Agmaster (Oct 8, 2009)

Making sense?  In a continuity laden book?  Madness.


----------



## Slice (Oct 8, 2009)

Morisson delivers  The guy just knows how to design and introduce a creepy villain

So far the best book of the week.


----------



## mow (Oct 9, 2009)

Every week B&R is released, it's the best book of the week. Morrison is mah  home-boy


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> apparently pre-crisis Jason Todd *DID* have red hair and dyed it.



Is it weird that I actually knew that?

Also, B and R was too much win. Creepy as villian, Jason Todd sighting, Damian _and _Jason getting their faces smashed into the hard ground, just too much.

Also, I wonder if that grey streak confirms the Ra's Al Ghul theory about Jason turning "rogue"


----------



## Castiel (Oct 10, 2009)

anyone else convinced that Pyg and Flamingo are some of Doctor Hurt's experiments?


----------



## Slice (Oct 10, 2009)

Not neccesarily experiments but they are most definately linked to him in some way. And until this all is over i expect more creepyness.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 10, 2009)

in the build up to RIP we saw what happened when he retried to recreate Batman, I'm betting his is him trying to recreate the Joker


----------



## Slice (Oct 10, 2009)

I havent thought about it that way. Its possible and would be one of the reasons why Morrison is holding the Joker back right now for some kind of "grand finale".


----------



## Castiel (Oct 10, 2009)

yeah, I looked it up, apparently Pyg's rant described many ways a psychologist tortured monkeys to see what would happen.

I'm not joking, that weird ass "mommy made of nails" was actually used to see if monkeys would love someone who stabbed them yet still gave them food.  he would also lock them a box in the darkness for months, to see what would happen .. they went insane, and I mean no hope, you have to put the monkey down insane

and pyg implied both of these were done to him.  plus Flamingo had his brain surgically messed with.  so yeah...


----------



## mow (Oct 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> yeah, I looked it up, apparently Pyg's rant described many ways a psychologist tortured monkeys to see what would happen.
> 
> I'm not joking, that weird ass "mommy made of nails" was actually used to see if monkeys would love someone who stabbed them yet still gave them food.  he would also lock them a box in the darkness for months, to see what would happen .. they went insane, and I mean no hope, you have to put the monkey down insane
> 
> and pyg implied both of these were done to him.  plus Flamingo had his brain surgically messed with.  so yeah...



Harry Harlow and his experiments where the highest caliber of "fucked up" ever conceived.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 10, 2009)

Morrison's run on Batman is win.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 10, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> But good on Morrison for briefly referencing Hush.



Where do you see that?


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 10, 2009)

mow said:


> Harry Harlow and his experiments where the highest caliber of "fucked up" ever conceived.



Monkey love experiments.  pek



Petes12 said:


> Where do you see that?



He's probably referring to all of Lucius Fox's talk regarding financial irregularities and Wayne's odd behavior.


----------



## ArcticSiren (Oct 12, 2009)

I know I am very late on the poll but I just had to vote "Bruce IS Batman, anything else is herasy" xD.


----------



## TheGreen1 (Oct 13, 2009)

First of all, I'm rather disappointed in Gotham, as they go to hell and a handbasket when Bruce dies. Surrre, superman can leave for a year or two, and Metropolis still functions normally. But as soon as Batman kicks the bucket, all hell breaks loose.

Even so, I'm liking this. A scowling Robin, and a lighthearted Batman that still remains serious? Interesting to me. I'm only hoping that Damian is actually Bruce's son biologically. I can at least infer that Damian is good at engineering as well (Building that new batmobile at 10? Even while using his father's blueprints, That's impressive.)

Still even if Damian isn't Bruce's biological Son, we still know that there will eventually be one, named Terry McGinnis. (I seriously should have seen that twist coming when I was younger. Two redheads having a dark haired child?)


----------



## Taleran (Oct 13, 2009)

mow said:


> Every week B&R is released, it's the best book of the week. Morrison is mah  home-boy



liar Planetary 27 also came out the same week as B&R 5


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 13, 2009)

I liked Planetary, read the whole thing in one sitting, but I dunno if 27 is best of the week. It was mostly just an epilogue after all.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 13, 2009)

TheGreen1 said:


> First of all, I'm rather disappointed in Gotham, as they go to hell and a handbasket when Bruce dies. Surrre, superman can leave for a year or two, and Metropolis still functions normally. But as soon as Batman kicks the bucket, all hell breaks loose.
> 
> Even so, I'm liking this. A scowling Robin, and a lighthearted Batman that still remains serious? Interesting to me. I'm only hoping that Damian is actually Bruce's son biologically. I can at least infer that Damian is good at engineering as well (Building that new batmobile at 10? Even while using his father's blueprints, That's impressive.)
> 
> Still even if Damian isn't Bruce's biological Son, we still know that there will eventually be one, named Terry McGinnis. (I seriously should have seen that twist coming when I was younger. Two redheads having a dark haired child?)


Gotham was already going to hell wearing a gasoline thong even when Bruce was around


----------



## typhoon72 (Oct 15, 2009)

Anyone read 691, its all kinds of epic. The ending...Oh shi---

Although there were some easy to guess plot twists in it, and I think 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Dent went out too easily

that teleporting stuff was dumb though




pretty good though


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 15, 2009)

Batman 691 was decent. It made the arc as a whole enjoyable. Thank goodness I never have to look at Bagley's 'smilin Batman' ever again. :WOW


----------



## Castiel (Oct 15, 2009)

like I said before, Bagley's Two-Face is so odd I can't help but love it.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 15, 2009)

I dunno, 691 let me down a bit. It seemed like, Harvey put all this time into being the first to realize that Dick wasn't Bruce, but as soon some Alfred win happened he just gave up on the theory. Especially odd since Harvey is one of a few guys to know that Nightwing = Robin I.

Also, I liked Batgirl. Her costume looks aloooooooooooooooooooot better in panel than it do in the promo stuff.


----------



## Slice (Oct 16, 2009)

I still wonder why exactly noone of the major rogues seems to realize that without any explanation Nightwing disappeared.

That it happened roughly the same time the Batman returned should make it even more obvious


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 16, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Especially odd since Harvey is one of a few guys to know that Nightwing = Robin I.




So the fact that the first Robin became Nightwing is not a wide known fact in the DCverse? Huh. I've always assumed everyone knew that.



Chaos Ghost said:


> Also, I liked Batgirl. Her costume looks aloooooooooooooooooooot better in panel than it do in the promo stuff.


Damn straight.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 16, 2009)

Slice said:


> I still wonder why exactly noone of the major rogues seems to realize that without any explanation Nightwing disappeared.
> 
> That it happened roughly the same time the Batman returned should make it even more obvious


Yeah, that is weird.



Bergelmir said:


> So the fact that the first Robin became Nightwing is not a wide known fact in the DCverse? Huh. I've always assumed everyone knew that.
> 
> 
> Damn straight.



More might know now, but I know Harvey ws one of the very first figure it out. Plus, as I recall, it was either he or Black Mask I(i'll re-check when I get home) who figured out that Red Hood was once a Bat Family member.


----------



## typhoon72 (Oct 16, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> More might know now, but I know Harvey ws one of the very first figure it out. Plus, as I recall, it was either he or Black Mask I(i'll re-check when I get home) who figured out that Red Hood was once a Bat Family member.



When was this?


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 16, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Yeah, that is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> More might know now, but I know Harvey ws one of the very first figure it out. Plus, as I recall, it was either he or Black Mask I(i'll re-check when I get home) who figured out that Red Hood was once a Bat Family member.



Ah, cool. This reminds me, though, I really should read the Jason Todd returns story. Was he annoying from the start of his return, or did the jerkwad characterization come in later on?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 16, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> like I said before, Bagley's Two-Face is so odd I can't help but love it.



What he said.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 16, 2009)

anyone else find it odd (and funny) seeing the way Azrael and Robin talk, knowing their fates in Batman #666?

also Bullock realizing Renee = Question


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 16, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> anyone else find it odd (and funny) seeing the way Azrael and Robin talk, knowing their fates in *Batman #666*?



Same here.



> also Bullock realizing Renee = Question



He's a caboose man.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 17, 2009)

he was just made cause Bruce was mad styling him


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 17, 2009)

Yo, son you mad cause I'm stylin on you...

TURN IT OFF!


----------



## Taleran (Oct 17, 2009)




----------



## Castiel (Oct 17, 2009)

I personally thought Winick's Red Hood Jason was pretty good.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I personally thought Winick's Red Hood Jason was pretty good.


I just like Jason Todd in general.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 18, 2009)

the whole return of Jason just makes me sad in retrospect.  

Winick's Jason was great, and you could tell he had long term plans, but editorial took a shit on that and then countdown and blah blah blah.

really at this point having Flamingo eat his face would be a mercy killing, the Jason we have now is as different from Winick's as a car is different from a can of soda.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 18, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Also, Winnick did some Red Hood win?


Batman\635-650 The Red Hood Saga 


Kilowog said:


> the whole return of Jason just makes me sad in retrospect.
> 
> Winick's Jason was great, and you could tell he had long term plans, but editorial took a shit on that and then countdown and blah blah blah.
> 
> really at this point having Flamingo eat his face would be a mercy killing, the Jason we have now is as different from Winick's as a car is different from a can of soda.


Yeah. But I still don't want him to die.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> the whole return of Jason just makes me sad in retrospect.
> 
> Winick's Jason was great, and you could tell he had long term plans, but editorial took a shit on that and then countdown and blah blah blah.
> 
> really at this point having Flamingo eat his face would be a mercy killing, the Jason we have now is as different from Winick's as a car is different from a can of soda.



I just don't like how he's taken a turn for being a generic villian. 

@ M0: I edited my post after I thought about it


----------



## Castiel (Oct 19, 2009)

> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #7
> Written by Grant Morrison
> Art by Cameron Stewart
> Cover by Frank Quitely
> ...









> *BATMAN #695
> Written by Tony Daniel
> Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea
> Cover by Tony Daniel*
> ...









> *DETECTIVE COMICS #861
> Written by Greg Rucka
> Art by Jock; co-feature art by Cully Hamner
> Cover by JH Williams III*
> ...









> *AZRAEL #4
> Written by Fabian Nicieza
> Art by Ramon Bachs & John Stanisci
> Cover by Francesco Mattina*
> ...









> *BATGIRL #6
> Written by Bryan Q. Miller
> Art by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott
> Cover by Phil Noto*
> ...









> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #8
> Written by Paul Dini
> Art and cover by Guillem March*
> The Sirens’ dangerous alliance with The Riddler continues! They’re willing to do anything to uncover the truth and protect themselves, but who is the mysterious villain targeting them all for death?
> On sale January 27 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US









> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #8
> Written by Paul Dini; co-feature written by Marc Andreyko
> Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs; co-feature art by Jeremy Haun
> Cover by Dustin Nguyen*
> ...









> *RED ROBIN #8
> Written by Christopher Yost
> Art by Marcus To & Ray McCarthy
> Cover by Marcus To*
> ...


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey, so whats the deal with the Riddler? Last I read, he had a bit of amnesia and he had reformed into a private detective or something. Has he gone back to being one of the bad guys yet?


----------



## Castiel (Oct 19, 2009)

no, what you mentioned is his status quo


----------



## KidQuick (Oct 19, 2009)

The cover to that azrael comic is amazing. I don't know how I feel about Az in white, but it's visually stimulating, that's for sure.

But for all the photorealism and light tricks, I don't think it comes close to the JH Williams III cover. But then again, I'm biased.


----------



## Mikaveli (Oct 19, 2009)

Never read comics in my life aside from Kingdom Come. I'm getting a subscription to Batman and Robin in November. Is it worth my money?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 19, 2009)

Super Mike said:


> Never read comics in my life aside from Kingdom Come. I'm getting a subscription to Batman and Robin in November. Is it worth *my money*?



Money? 



Oh wait, you're serious. Uhhh... I guess it is worth it. Maybe.


----------



## typhoon72 (Oct 19, 2009)

yeah it is...one of the few series I will pay for


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 19, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Money?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait, you're serious. Uhhh... I guess it is worth it. Maybe.





Super Mike said:


> Never read comics in my life aside from Kingdom Come. I'm getting a subscription to Batman and Robin in November. Is it worth my money?



Indeed it is.


----------



## Mikaveli (Oct 20, 2009)

I see whst you did there M0.

And I am amused


----------



## breakbeat oratory (Oct 20, 2009)

Bruce Wayne is the only worthy Batman, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 20, 2009)

You're like a year late for that poll.

Dick Grayson's currently Batman, but of course everyone knows it's only until Bruce Wayne returns, I'm guessing a year from now.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 20, 2009)




----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 20, 2009)

Oh god, the aggression on his face


----------



## Castiel (Oct 21, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Azrael #1 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 21, 2009)

mow said:


> Stabbing my eyes out would be more merciful than reading this book with that artwork


This.

It's amazing how bad this looks in comparison to his work on Red Robin. All of the Azrael panels are just... ugly.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 21, 2009)

If only the art was like that specific cover. . .


----------



## Castiel (Oct 21, 2009)

I love how the guy who is a member of a fanatical cult acts insulted if asked if he goes to church


----------



## mow (Oct 22, 2009)




----------



## Castiel (Oct 22, 2009)

ugliness aside the first Azrael issue was decent, the airport and "six months later" scenes were great

But yeah nobody can really follow up Frazer Irving, least of all Ramon Bachs.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 22, 2009)

I had thought it was going to be whoever the artist was on the BftC Azrael mini, so I was pretty disappointed too.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 22, 2009)

So, who here has read the latest Red Robin?

Tim's planning on taking down both leading assassins factions from the inside. Now i'm a huge fan of the guy, but i can't help but think that there's a good chance this whole plan will go tits up.

Also, really enjoyed Adventure Comics, even if some would say it was a bit too bromantic.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 22, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> I had thought it was going to be whoever the artist was on the BftC Azrael mini, so I was pretty disappointed too.



pipe dream.  Irving isn't the type to do an ongoing.


----------



## Bender (Oct 24, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> So, who here has read the latest Red Robin?
> 
> Tim's planning on taking down both leading assassins factions from the inside. Now i'm a huge fan of the guy, but i can't help but think that there's a good chance this whole plan will go tits up.



It will 

Ra's is much stronger than he is not to mention he'll be able to predict what ol' Tim boy plans to do before he does it.



> Also, really enjoyed Adventure Comics, even if some would say it was a bit too bromantic.



Agreed I wish he'd act more of an asshole to him as he did to Stephanie


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 24, 2009)

mow said:


>





Kilowog said:


> ugliness aside the first Azrael issue was decent, the airport and "six months later" scenes were great
> 
> But yeah nobody can really follow up Frazer Irving, least of all Ramon Bachs.


I liked it. Loved the "he saw Batman and called out your name" scene


Blaze of Glory said:


> Agreed I wish he'd act more of an asshole to him as he did to Stephanie



Bros > Hoes


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 24, 2009)

mow said:


>



Hmm. Not bad.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 25, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> It will
> 
> Ra's is much stronger than he is not to mention he'll be able to predict what ol' Tim boy plans to do before he does it.



I'm hoping Tim manages to do it. Maybe with a little help, or a little clumsily, but it'd be badass if he fucked up both the assassins and the CoS.



> Agreed I wish he'd act more of an asshole to him as he did to Stephanie



Meh, i liked Conner. You can see with Cassie and Dick that they both don't even consider that Bruce could be alive, they immediately see him as just being affected by his loss. Conner actually listened to him and genuinely believed him.


----------



## Kool-Aid (Oct 26, 2009)

eh, Azrael is a knights templar mixed the assassin's creed guy now? 

he looks pretty cool though


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2009)

Azrael has always been a "templar knight", but yeah the assassin creed stuff is new.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #692 preview_


----------



## Bender (Oct 26, 2009)

^

Asking for permission to take things from the scene of the crime? 

FAIL Dick

just plain fail....


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 26, 2009)

Tony Daniel!


----------



## mow (Oct 27, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Tony Daniel!



GLORY UPON THE WORLD


----------



## Castiel (Oct 27, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Arkham Reborn #1 preview_


----------



## mow (Oct 27, 2009)

My fav BfTC tie-in.  Really looking forward to this book and how it effects B&R.


----------



## typhoon72 (Oct 27, 2009)

That artwork looks amazing in Batman


----------



## Castiel (Oct 27, 2009)

last page of the arkham preview


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 27, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: _Arkham Reborn #1 preview_


I can't wait


----------



## Castiel (Oct 27, 2009)

Gotta say, Yost's fill-in issue of SoG was pretty darn good, almost didn't notice Dini didn't write this.


----------



## Bender (Oct 27, 2009)

LOL



"There's a parental lock on the internet" 

No porn for you Clayface


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 27, 2009)

How old was Tim spose to be when Cap. Bommerang did his old man in? I thought he was like 16-17, but this Halloween issue has him looking like he was 13 or so.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 28, 2009)

J.H. Williams III is a God.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 28, 2009)

I tried reading Batman today and got bored like 4 pages in and just looked at the art, does it reveal who Black Mask is?


----------



## Bender (Oct 28, 2009)

*Does the I told you so dance*

See see I knew it was the Falcone family that was coming back


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 28, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> *Does the I told you so dance*
> 
> See see I knew it was the CorleoneFalcone family that was coming back


I, too, was happy about this.


----------



## Bender (Oct 28, 2009)

Dey better get they gangster on and fuck up Gotham with more gangster shit than it never has before 

Also my bad if I couldn't tell who it was buuuuuuuuut.... Was that Carmine Falcone in the last panel?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 28, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Was that Carmine Falcone in the last panel?


Nope. 


> This Reaper is *Dr. Gruener*, a German Jew who was placed in a concentration camp run by Colonel Kurt Schloss. He kills Schloss at a Halloween parade and dies battling Batman when he falls off a cliff.
> 
> This Reaper has recently reappeared in _Batman_, having apparently been cryogenically frozen and now thawed out by order of Black Mask.


----------



## Bender (Oct 28, 2009)

Oh that dude the one who was inspiration for the Phantasm in Batman mask of the Phantasm. Also fun fact.  in the currently running (or so I believe) Batman the animated series his clone is working under the Black Mask too.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 28, 2009)

ah yes, Batman: Year Two.  


why?


----------



## Bender (Oct 28, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Gotham City Sirens #5 preview_


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 28, 2009)

Wait... Poison Ivy wears high heels? How is she not barefoot?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 29, 2009)

ok, i took the time to read Batman, and it was pretty good. So was Arkham Reborn. Sirens, eh... I can't decide if it was horrible or passable.


----------



## Bender (Oct 29, 2009)

How much longer is Bruce going to be gone again?


----------



## Castiel (Oct 29, 2009)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 29, 2009)

Why isn't he wearing his "hooker's face" mask?


----------



## Castiel (Oct 29, 2009)

he's getting ready to wear a new one


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 29, 2009)

Hope it's not Damian's face.


----------



## Agmaster (Oct 29, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> Wait... Poison Ivy wears high heels? How is she not barefoot?


Why is almost all of Ivy's dialogue laden with innuendo?  Pretty much the same thing.  You know, fanservice.  Kubo style.  But with innuendo we actually get.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 29, 2009)

Well it doesn't work. I get that it's a dini book, so he likes his safer poison ivy, but the high heels and full body plant skirt just makes it seem like she has a weird sense of fashion.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 29, 2009)

black mask's new costume sucks


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 29, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> black mask's new costume sucks


I know. He looks like the father vampire from Blade II.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 30, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> black mask's new costume sucks





LIL_M0 said:


> I know. He looks like the father vampire from Blade II.



Fuck ya'll bitches, that shit is hax. Specially if he goes on to be a mad scientist type fucker. And since he's working his own mini cult makes it awesome.

Gloves are a little much though,


----------



## Stan Lee (Oct 30, 2009)

Red Hood's costume is sucks as well.



What's even gayer are those guns.


----------



## Stan Lee (Oct 30, 2009)

To each his own.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 30, 2009)

I'd love to be the concept meetings for new costume designs. See how they rationalize certain stuff.


----------



## Bender (Oct 30, 2009)

Meh, that's all I can say about Jason's new costume


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 30, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Meh, that's all I can say about Jason's new costume



I'm like that about all superhero costumes. The only one I like is Batwoman's because it's functional, not just for show.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 30, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Meh, that's all I can say about Jason's new costume



The more I look at it the more that chest emblem is annoying me


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 30, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> The more I look at it the more that chest emblem is annoying me



Not the helmet? The helmet is what ruins it for me. Its so goofy. Reminds me too much of Mysterio.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 30, 2009)

It's an unfinished Punisher logo.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 30, 2009)

Bergelmir said:


> Not the helmet? The helmet is what ruins it for me. Its so goofy. Reminds me too much of Mysterio.



It's similar to the first Red Hood's mask though.


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 30, 2009)

The initial Red Hood mask was a head shaped helmet/mask thing though. At least it somewhat looked like it belonged a human head. The current Red Hood mask looks like Jason is wearing a really big flower vase.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 30, 2009)

He's clearly the 8th Espada.


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 30, 2009)

The Mr.30000Hollow-Blob-Man-Thing? Who went out like a crying bitch? I can dig that.


----------



## mow (Oct 30, 2009)

*FAP FAP FAP*


----------



## Castiel (Oct 30, 2009)

Detective Comics is so good.  This issue was the start of Kate's origin, and yes she certainly got a "batman origin story".  also the end of the first Question arc, had a heart warming ending with renee kicking all sorts of ass

Arkham was cool.
"Mommy I see Black Mask"


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 30, 2009)

Oh snap!

Where to begin...?

*bows before the master*


----------



## Castiel (Oct 30, 2009)

so do you think she blames her father for the death of her mother or something?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 30, 2009)

I wonder how well-received would Detective Comics be if it wasn't for J.H. Williams III as the artist. . .


----------



## Castiel (Oct 30, 2009)

the recently completed Batman Confidential arc was just great


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 30, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> so do you think she blames her father for the death of her mother or something?



Probably not.  If I'm not mistaken, Alice/Beth recognizes her father (for the first time, it seems) back in 855.

No, all of this dramarama is probably wrapped in all of that crime bible/cult of crime madness.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 30, 2009)

> I wonder how well-received would Detective Comics be if it wasn't for J.H. Williams III as the artist. . .


Jock is still a good artist, sure he's not JH Williams III but his art is usually well received.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 31, 2009)

Methinks CBG is saying this comic is a typical (albeit competently scripted) superhero story.  Without JHW3's input of fab art, it'd be just another Batbook on the racks.

I agree.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 31, 2009)

It'd still be best one, after Morrison's book. But it probably wouldn't have been as well received because people didn't want to like Batwoman. And the detail JHW put into the art helped flesh out her personality even without text. It's hard to imagine what the book would look like with another artist on it, because I think you'd lose some story telling and cues like the picture ghstwrld posted.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 31, 2009)

It's more so the effectiveness of creative panel layout compared to how pretty it looks.

This IS the artist of Promethea, after all.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Oct 31, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]-e4OptqTVvw[/YOUTUBE]​


----------



## Castiel (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't like everyone understating Rucka's writing :|


----------



## mow (Oct 31, 2009)

I personally have not read a single Bat family book since BfTW except Batman & robin, (going to read everything when the final issue of B&R drops), but yeah, all the reviews I'm reading do that. And it makes no sense becuase Rucka is one of the top 5 writers atm. I dont see how the art compliments the writing, if anything they both go hand in hand and if any other writer was on the book I doubt JIII would create something so rich. He is basing it on Rucka's script after all.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 31, 2009)

I have  to ask, why would you wait to read Detective?


----------



## Castiel (Oct 31, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Methinks CBG is saying this comic is a typical (albeit competently scripted) superhero story.  Without JHW3's input of fab art, it'd be just another Batbook on the racks.
> 
> I agree.


I personally read his comment as would people have given 'Tec a shot without JHW3 on it.  From what I've read about 3/4 of all the people who checked out the run was because of JHW3, with many stating they disliked Batwoman despite knowing nothing about her and then sticking around not just for JHW3 but also because of Rucka.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 31, 2009)

What I'm curious is, how much of the panel layout is designed by Williams and how much of the panel layout is designed/scripted by Rucka.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 31, 2009)

from interviews it seems like Rucka tells him what he basically wants conveyed and JHW3 has a party.


----------



## mow (Nov 1, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> I have  to ask, why would you wait to read Detective?



No reason really, aside from the fact I hate waiting for monthly titles and much prefer reading everything in one sitting. For continuous books I usually wait till an arc is complete then I read it, then wait for the next arc to finish then read that. Odd habit I supose, result of first getting into comics through TPB as we never get single issues over here. 

I'm doing the same with the superman family books. Only title im reading monthly is Secret Origin. The rest I'll wait till WoNK #12 is released.


----------



## Slice (Nov 1, 2009)

mow said:


> No reason really, aside from the fact *I hate waiting for monthly titles* and much *prefer reading everything in one sitting*. For continuous books I usually wait till an arc is complete then I read it, then wait for the next arc to finish then read that. Odd habit I supose, result of first getting into comics *through TPB as we never get single issues over here*.
> 
> I'm doing the same with the superman family books. Only title im reading monthly is Secret Origin. The rest I'll wait till WoNK #12 is released.



I know this problem, but i'm really impatient so i follow most of them monthly anyways - and thanks to DCP i'm able to read them at all. 

Translated comics take months to be released (if they do it at all), and importing single issues? That like tripples the price.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2009)

> For continuous books I usually wait till an arc is complete then I read it


first detective arc is done


----------



## mow (Nov 1, 2009)

but it's ultra pretty and I know the writing is superb and it will be so much more satisfactory to read it all as it was intended with a mug of tea while listening to music and laying on the couch and be truly wowed by Williams and Rucka.

I'm not abstaining from reading because I dislike it/not certain of it's quality, it's the exact opposite scenario.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2009)

ok then read it at the end of this arc then, cause then JHW3 is taking a break (anyone who thought he could actually keep a monthly schedule should shoot themselve right now for being too stupid to live).  then Jock (Losers) does stuff.  JHW3 will then come back ... eventually.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2009)

Jock?! 

































*YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!*


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2009)

yeah Jock will be doing all the Batwoman stuff in the main features.  Main plan is to at some point in the future have either Jock or Hamner do the main feature which will be about Renee which will allow JHW3 to do the batwoman co-feature while he slowly gets enough pages to do the main feature again.

simple really


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2009)

So Renee will be gettin lotsa pages for a while?! pek


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 1, 2009)

Guys?!!?!??

Why don't I care about Question or Batwoman?

I liked Montoya better pre-Question


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Why don't I care about Question or Batwoman?



cause you suck


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 1, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> cause you suck



Seriously though, when I read Detective, I liked the book itself, but I couldn't get attached enough to either character to really care, so I dropped it.


----------



## mow (Nov 1, 2009)

Dude.


dude.



Kilowog said:


> yeah Jock will be doing all the Batwoman stuff in the main features.  Main plan is to at some point in the future have either Jock or Hamner do the main feature which will be about Renee which will allow JHW3 to do the batwoman co-feature while he slowly gets enough pages to do the main feature again.
> 
> simple really



I swear, I couldn't possibly be any happier.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 1, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Guys?!!?!??
> 
> Why don't I care about Question or Batwoman?
> 
> I liked Montoya better pre-Question


Here lies the friendship of Mo and Chaos Ghost. It used to be awesome.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> *Seriously though*, when I read Detective, I liked the book itself, but I couldn't get attached enough to either character to really care, so I dropped it.



Who's not being serious?


----------



## Bender (Nov 1, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Guys?!!?!??
> 
> Why don't I care about Question or Batwoman?
> 
> I liked Montoya better pre-Question



THANK YOU 

Someone agrees with me


----------



## Agmaster (Nov 1, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Who's not being serious?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 3, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Methinks CBG is saying this comic is a typical (albeit competently scripted) superhero story.  Without JHW3's input of fab art, it'd be just another Batbook on the racks.
> 
> I agree.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Guys?!!?!??
> 
> Why don't I care about Question or Batwoman?
> 
> I liked Montoya better pre-Question



It's probably because you hate good comics, fun, freedom and America.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 3, 2009)

> Of course, none of that's to say Asterios Polyp and Detective Comics succeed in equal measures. Mazzucchelli's book leans very heavily on visual traits, taking its story into its heart like a power core, which gets its place and figures and letters and everything contorting to marvellous effect. Detective Comics actually promotes a more even balance between writing and art. But that's the problem.
> 
> I like the image just above. That's in the middle of this issue, a detail from the second of two double-page spreads that cuts Kate's flashback in half. It neatly allegorizes the growing break between Kate's private life and her Batwoman performance - Williams even sets up the bright 'domestic' scenes in square television screens that mock the staid, squares 'n rectangles layouts of those portions of the series. Kate is growing apart from that now, the vivid detail of her Batwoman body now making her seem especially hurt and tired, performing her detective work in a detective comic.
> 
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Nov 3, 2009)

> Chaos Ghost said:
> 
> 
> > Guys?!!?!??
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Nov 3, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


>



nah I like what I posted better


----------



## Castiel (Nov 9, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman and Robin #6 preview_


----------



## Taleran (Nov 9, 2009)

I like Flamingo


----------



## Castiel (Nov 9, 2009)

new Confidential was awesome.  Batman vs a giant nazi robot octopus ... in a graveyard


----------



## neodragzero (Nov 9, 2009)

Taleran said:


> I like Flamingo



...I strangely agree.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #693 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2009)

Yost promises the flashbacks are almost over :WOW




*Spoiler*: _Red Robin #6 preview_


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 11, 2009)

All these books were pretty good (except Batgirl, that was mediocre). But I'm glad Tan's arc is over. And wow now that I think about it we got a lot of Batman books this week.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 12, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> I like it well enough, though I haven't read the fourth issue yet.  But I won't lie, I'm still not sure if the reason why I like it is just because I'm a huge fan of Stephanie, which blinds me, or not.



I was personally kinda indifferent about her until this. I liked Cass in what I saw her in though I didnt see much, and I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly dislike Barbara most of the time, so the character and the mantle were kinda a clean slate for me.


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 12, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I was personally kinda indifferent about her until this. I liked Cass in what I saw her in though I didnt see much, and I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly dislike Barbara most of the time, so the character and the mantle were kinda a clean slate for me.



She was <3 when written by Chuck Dixon in the '90s, especially during his (amazing) run on _Robin_.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm liking it enough that I still read it. But it's not very good, it's just not offensively bad and I like the character.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2009)

*Zur.

En.

Arrh.*


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 13, 2009)

Too bad the artwork is impossible to comprehend.


----------



## Rod (Nov 13, 2009)

The Batman corpse with Superman and Black hand is Bruce indeed.

From another earth... 

It happens Batman from another earth while investigating during the crisis discovered the cosmic plot just liek the main earth's Bruce, however knowing that an outer version of himself was involved, therefore,  predicting how he would act he anticipated the actions and got a plan to alter the reality in the multiverse in order to save himself from the sacrifice in the main earth, dying poetically because that's just how the godfuckdamn Batman is, badass as that.


You heard it here first, folks.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 13, 2009)

My mind gets fucked more and more.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 13, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> She was <3 when written by Chuck Dixon in the '90s, especially during his (amazing) run on _Robin_.



What initially endeared me to the character. Robin in the 90s was such epic win.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 13, 2009)

DAMN! New batman and robin was epic, too bad the paneling was confusing as fuck at times. WTF is this, Bruce's corpse???! And who the fuck is flammingo besides some guy Jason made enemies with?

Does this guy make clones of himself and have a super healing ability??? The paneling was all kinds of fucked up, couldnt hardly comprehend the fight.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 13, 2009)

Agmaster said:


> Here now, CG?  Really?  For shame...


Im from the South bitch, it's interchangeable down younder 


typhoon72 said:


> DAMN! New batman and robin was epic, too bad the paneling was confusing as fuck at times. WTF is this, Bruce's corpse???! And who the fuck is flammingo besides some guy Jason made enemies with?
> 
> Does this guy make clones of himself and have a super healing ability??? The paneling was all kinds of fucked up, couldnt hardly comprehend the fight.


It it was kinda hard to follow. As for Flamingo, I have no strong feelings towards him either way


----------



## Slice (Nov 14, 2009)

typhoon72 said:


> DAMN! New batman and robin was epic, too bad the paneling was confusing as fuck at times. WTF is this, Bruce's corpse???! *And who the fuck is flammingo besides some guy Jason made enemies with?
> 
> Does this guy make clones of himself and have a super healing ability???* The paneling was all kinds of fucked up, couldnt hardly comprehend the fight.



You know what, the Quitely cover literally leaked of awesome and charisma. I expected great things.

And then i got panels showing some guy that could have been replaced with any street thug with close combat trainig.

Tan is keeping Morisson down


----------



## mow (Nov 14, 2009)

^ the fucking truth =/


----------



## Castiel (Nov 14, 2009)

it's weird, I thought his art on #4 was pretty good, then he sets the car on fire and drives off a cliff


----------



## Rod (Nov 14, 2009)

and joe bennett is being wasted in some tt book -.-"


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Please tell me no one liked the newest Batgirl issue or Batgirl series period... 

So awful.....


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Please tell me no one liked the newest Batgirl issue or Batgirl series period...
> 
> So awful.....



Do me a fave sir.

Yourself....go fuck him

This issue was lame though.


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

Buy it, bitches.  If you don't, they'll probably kill Stephanie again.


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Buy it, bitches.  If you don't, they'll probably kill Stephanie again.



......  YAY

Death+Stephanie= Me Happy 

Dead Stephanie + Tim Drake= Angry angsty Tim Drake 

Which means good Red Robin issues. 

Boy was doing fine before she came back into his life and tried being all independent and shit. How many times has she been told to step down from "this life" and repeatedly went against their orders. It's as Bruce said "she's a foolish young woman".


----------



## mow (Nov 15, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Buy it, bitches.  If you don't, they'll probably kill Stephanie again.



DIE IN A FUCKING FIRE 

Ignore this buffoon, guys. Go buy Nomad: Girl Without A World instead for your fix of teenage gal superheroism.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

mow said:


> DIE IN A FUCKING FIRE
> 
> Ignore this buffoon, guys. Go buy Nomad: Girl Without A World instead for your fix of teenage gal superheroism.



You make it sound like we cant buy both?


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

I never said you had to read it!


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

I don't know about you guys but am I the only one livid at the fact that the entire modern Bat-family have never met each other? I can understand how the Batman creators wanted to move on but c'mon I wish that Cassandra and Jason Todd could've at least met each other before Dan Didio and Adam Beechen's decided to rape her character.


----------



## mow (Nov 15, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> You make it sound like we cant buy both?



You could buy TWO issues of NOMAD instead.





Okkervil River said:


> I never said you had to read it!



It's just that I'm CBG level "crazyaboutCassandraCain" about Rikki Barnes. Any use of logic will demolished by rabid fanboyism. JUST AGREE WITH ME.


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

^

My Cassandra Cain fanaticism will not disappear so long as they continue to treat her like crap.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

I actually kinda got attached to Steph via Jason Todd syndrome, where it pissed me off that people just shat on her for not being Cass or Babs, specially since I hate Babs most of the time

And..Mow has Nomad.....CBG has Cass......Hellion has X-23....wonder when I'll find my own hot teen super chick to fanboy over*eyes Stargirl and Mercury*


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I don't know about you guys but am I the only one livid at the fact that the entire modern Bat-family have never met each other? I can understand how the Batman creators wanted to move on but c'mon I wish that Cassandra and Jason Todd could've at least met each other before Dan Didio and Adam Beechen's decided to rape her character.



Sometimes I like to pretend Jason Todd was never resurrected, so that's never really bothered me =X.



			
				mow said:
			
		

> It's just that I'm CBG level "crazyaboutCassandraCain" about Rikki Barnes. Any use of logic will demolished by rabid fanboyism. JUST AGREE WITH ME.



Yes, sir!

EDIT: 





			
				Chaos Ghost said:
			
		

> I actually kinda got attached to Steph via Jason Todd syndrome, where it pissed me off that people just shat on her for not being Cass or Babs, specially since I hate Babs most of the time



Steph was awesome way before Cass was a gleam in Kelley Puckett's eye .


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Okkervil River said:
			
		

> Steph was awesome way before Cass was a gleam in Kelley Puckett's eye .



HOW DARE YOU 

Never EVER was she better than Cass 





Chaos Ghost said:


> I actually kinda got attached to Steph via Jason Todd syndrome, where it pissed me off that people just shat on her for not being Cass or Babs, specially since I hate Babs most of the time



Call this blasphemy but I seem to tolerate Jason Todd more than Stephanie.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> HOW DARE YOU
> 
> Never EVER was she better than Cass
> 
> ...



He didnt say she was better, just that she was awesome first/

At least I hope thats what he meant.


----------



## mow (Nov 15, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> And..Mow has Nomad.....CBG has Cass......Hellion has X-23....wonder when I'll find my own hot teen super chick to fanboy over*eyes Stargirl and Mercury*



Frau Totenkinder


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

mow said:


> Frau Totenkinder



Ya know, after that ish where they answered viewers questions, I havent really been held by Fables


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

Better is relative.  I love Cass,  but I grew up with Spoiler, and Tim Drake is probably my favorite DC character, so she's closer to my heart than Cass is.  I still think making her Batgirl over Cass was completely unnecessary though, but I support the book by virtue of my enduring love for its lead character.


----------



## Slice (Nov 15, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> And..Mow has Nomad.....CBG has Cass......Hellion has X-23....wonder when I'll find my own hot teen super chick to fanboy over*eyes Stargirl and *Mercury**





You stay away from that one 



mow said:


> Frau Totenkinder


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 15, 2009)

You guys get that just because Cass is more awesome than Steph, it doesn't mean Steph isn't awesome, right? Steph is still a great character, and the Batgirl book is great for now.


----------



## Slice (Nov 15, 2009)

I kinda like the book, its not "super awesome" but enjoyable.

The only real gripe i have about it is how they portrait Oracle. She just seems off.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I don't know about you guys but am I the only one livid at the fact that the entire modern Bat-family have never met each other? I can understand how the Batman creators wanted to move on but c'mon I wish that Cassandra and Jason Todd could've at least met each other before Dan Didio and Adam Beechen's decided to rape her character.



It's up to the writers to consider crosses like that.

And then it's up to the higher-up editors to allow or veto that.



mow said:


> It's just that I'm CBG level "crazyaboutCassandraCain" about Rikki Barnes. Any use of logic will demolished by rabid fanboyism. JUST AGREE WITH ME.



You're a comprehensive-story-pitch too early to claim that!

Yes. . . I made a story-pitch for my character, to fix all the fucking mistakes that DC did.

Page 6, posts #114+. It's pretty damn long. . . with O'Neil Question goodness too.



Okkervil River said:


> Steph was awesome way before Cass was a gleam in Kelley Puckett's eye .







Blaze of Glory said:


> Call this blasphemy but I seem to tolerate Jason Todd more than Stephanie.



BLASPHEMY!



Slice said:


> I kinda like the book, its not "super awesome" but enjoyable.
> 
> The only real gripe i have about it is how they portrait Oracle. She just seems off.



This.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

Slice said:


> I kinda like the book, its not "super awesome" but enjoyable.
> 
> *The only real gripe i have about it is how they portrait Oracle. She just seems off.*



Eh, I don't lke her anyway so it doesn't bother me. Though she did seem extra bitchy at the start of the book, which made me hate her more.


----------



## Z (Nov 15, 2009)

This new Batgirl series is impressive. But now where does this leave Cass?


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> This new Batgirl series is impressive. But now where does this leave Cass?



I still have $10 on her showing up in whatever new 2010 book or mini Didio keeps implying Connor Hawke will be a part of.  I'm pretty sure he mentioned in some Newsarama interview awhile ago that they had plans for currently unplaced sidekicks that I assume refers to the same book.

Though, it will probably suck.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> I still have $10 on *her[Cass] *showing up in whatever new 2010 book or mini Didio keeps implying *Connor Hawke *will be a part of.  I'm pretty sure he mentioned in some Newsarama interview awhile ago that they had plans for groups of *currently unplaced sidekicks* that I assume refers to the same book.
> 
> Though, it *will probably suck.*



DOES NOT COMPUTE


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> DOES NOT COMPUTE



More so because of DC's recent track record with said sidekicks than the idea itself.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 15, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> This new Batgirl series is impressive. But now where does this leave Cass?





I'm impressed with how pedestrian the story really is.  It's almost as if BQM simply types all of the relevant information into a story generator and presses 'print' when it's appropriate to do so.


----------



## Z (Nov 15, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> I'm impressed with how pedestrian the story really is.  It's almost as if BQM simply types all of the relevant information into a story generator and presses 'print' when it's appropriate to do so.



Not really. The last issue was funny and enjoyable.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 15, 2009)

Please tell me which sections of the resolution to the first story arc aren't entirely rote.


----------



## Z (Nov 15, 2009)

Did you check out the latest Batman issue?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm alright with Daniel's run so far, but the fact that he's making Year Two canon again is unforgivable.


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> This new Batgirl series is *TRASH*. But now where does this leave Cass?



She's probably gonna be turned evil again and after a scuffle with Stephanie she falls to her death with Stephanie's resolve being stronger.


----------



## Z (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> She's probably gonna be turned evil again and after a scuffle with Stephanie she falls to her death with Stephanie's resolve being stronger.



Sounds like Bleach.


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Can someone tell me why we have to hate Jason Todd so much? 



Echizen Ryoma said:


> Sounds like Bleach.



Batgirl series creators wish they could make Stephanie as epic as Bleach.  There's no need for a Barbara/Batgirl wannabe. Mark my words they willgonna kill Cass just to make Steph more dedicated to protecting the city from villains and yada yada.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I'm alright with Daniel's run so far, but the fact that he's making Year Two canon again is unforgivable.


Never reead Year Two


Blaze of Glory said:


> Can someone tell me why we have to hate Jason Todd so much?
> 
> 
> 
> Batgirl series creators wish they could make Stephanie as epic as Bleach.  *There's no need for a Barbara/Batgirl wannabe*. Mark my words they willgonna kill Cass just to make Steph more dedicated to protecting the city from villains and yada yada.





So by taking up the mantle she's being a wanna be?


----------



## Slice (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Batgirl series creators wish they could make Stephanie _*as epic as Bleach*_.



Please tell me you are joking... PLEASE...

Seriously i too think Cass is the better Batgirl and a better character but Steph isnt bad. She is likable, believable and the writing is decent.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> She's probably gonna be turned evil again and after a scuffle with Stephanie she falls to her death with Stephanie's resolve being stronger.



I like Steph, mainly due to my love for Dixon's run on Robin. But if Cass is sacrificed in order to make steph a "stronger" character, my nerd rage will be felt in other dimensions.

Steph is cool, but Cass is still my favorite batgirl hands down.

I still say that Steph would be good in a huntress like role. They already have several similarities (on and off level of respect/acceptance among the batfamily, flings with robins ha, lingering feelings of self doubt, both have been batgirl, both have criminal family ties)


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> So by taking up the mantle she's being a wanna be?



No it's the creators of the series are trying to create the same atmosphere at the old Batgirl series with Barbara.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 15, 2009)

hate levels towards current Batgirl series seems a bit disproportionate.  Sure it's not as good as Cassandra's book, but it's nowhere near as bad as half of you were saying.

Personally think it's just a decent enough little book.  But I was always a Steph fan.


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> hate levels towards current Batgirl series seems a bit disproportionate.  Sure it's not as good as Cassandra's book, but it's nowhere near as bad as half of you were saying.
> 
> Personally think it's just a decent enough little book.  But I was always a Steph fan.



Don't worry about it and just go with the flow.  There's no greater blinding agent in modern comics than Cassandra Cain, =).


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> hate levels towards current Batgirl series seems a bit disproportionate.  Sure it's not as good as Cassandra's book, but it's nowhere near as bad as half of you were saying.
> 
> Personally think it's just a decent enough little book.  But I was always a Steph fan.



I don't like it not because it's bad it's because it's showing that they want Cass to fade away from our memories and replace her with Steph who was rushed into the role.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> No it's the creators of the series are trying to create the same atmosphere at the old Batgirl series with Barbara.



It seems like BQM is trying to capture the usual sort of irreverence found in comics staring teenage superheroes.


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> It seems like BQM is trying to capture the usual sort of irreverence found in comics staring teenage superheroes.



I don't get why they couldn't just do a Spoiler comic.


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I don't like it not because it's bad it's because it's showing that they want Cass to fade away from our memories and replace her with Steph who was rushed into the role.



Not that I don't agree that the character shift was unnecessary or think that Cass shouldn't have remained Batgirl, but if you're going to criticize it for rushing Stephanie into the role of Batgirl at someone else's expense, then Cass, who existed as a character for a month and arguably robbed Helena--who most fans, at that point, had expected to take over the cowl--of her chance, isn't exactly a good character to compare her to.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I don't get why they couldn't just do a Spoiler comic.



Trademark maintenance.

Spoiler does not carry nearly as much goodwill as Batgirl does with folks.


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Not that I don't agree that the character shift was unnecessary or think that Cass shouldn't have remained Batgirl, but if you're going to criticize it for rushing Stephanie into the role of Batgirl at someone else's expense, then Cass, who existed as a character for a month and arguably robbed Helena--



How did Cass rob Helena? Bat's already told her take off the cowl when she wore it plus, Cass was one of the league of Assassins which was guaranteed a lot of win. It's not just rushing it's how they're doing such a fail job at re-introducing Year-one Batgirl.




> Spoiler does not carry nearly as much goodwill as Batgirl does with folks.



And yet she's accepted by the rest of you people. Plus, she's pretty cool as Spoiler since she kicked Tim's ass during Gotham Underground. Shoot, I don't think we would've seen her had it been for all that complaining about how she was "killed" at the end of War Games and there wasn't a memorial for her. And in all this it's similar to how Tim replaced Jason after he was killed by the Joker.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Plus, she's pretty cool as Spoiler since she kicked Tim's ass during Gotham Underground.



What issue was this, and how did it go down?


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 15, 2009)

Goodwill in the sense that a book with the title 'Spoiler' doesn't have nearly as much of a built-in-audience as one with the title 'Batgirl'.


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> What issue was this, and how did it go down?



Issue 3

Tim and Barbara are monitoring Dick and his progress at going undercover as The Penguin's hired muscle. Barbara shows Tim who the new player in Gotham; Johnny Stitches and just then Spoiler with optic camouflage technology breaks in Bab's clock tower and knocks her out and then starts pounding on him. Grabbing him by the collar she's about to deal the final blow when Wildcat punches her revealing her to Tim who responds with "It can't be.... is that s Sp- SPOILER!?"


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 15, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> This new Batgirl series is impressive. But now where does this leave Cass?



According to the writer?

Whoever wants to pick her up.



Kilowog said:


> I'm alright with Daniel's run so far, but *the fact that he's making Year Two canon again is unforgivable*.



This.



Kilowog said:


> hate levels towards current Batgirl series seems a bit disproportionate.  Sure it's not as good as Cassandra's book, but it's nowhere near as bad as half of you were saying.
> 
> Personally think it's just a decent enough little book.  *But I was always a Steph fan.*




Also this. But I still don't like how Barbara is portrayed at first. . . and it reads like Batman Beyond-lite.



Okkervil River said:


> Don't worry about it and just go with the flow.  There's no greater blinding agent in modern comics than Cassandra Cain, =).



*simmers*



Blaze of Glory said:


> I don't like it not because it's bad it's because it's showing that *they want Cass to fade away from our memories* and replace her with Steph who was rushed into the role.



*NOT FOR ME. NEVER FOR ME.*



Blaze of Glory said:


> How did Cass rob Helena? Bat's already told her take off the cowl when she wore it plus, Cass was one of the league of Assassins which was guaranteed a lot of win. It's not just rushing it's how they're doing such a fail job at re-introducing Year-one Batgirl.
> 
> And yet she's accepted by the rest of you people. Plus, she's pretty cool as Spoiler since she kicked Tim's ass during Gotham Underground. Shoot, I don't think we would've seen her had it been for all that complaining about how she was "killed" at the end of War Games and there wasn't a memorial for her. And in all this it's similar to how Tim replaced Jason after he was killed by the Joker.



Well, the "Batgirl" community is mainly comprise of Barbara Gordon-Batgirl fans, Barbara Gordon-Oracle fans, and Cassandra Cain fans.

And trust me when I say, the divided community is screaming bloody war, some desperately wanting the series to fail.

Personally? Yes, I'm a Cass fan, but she can grow beyond the Batgirl mantle. She doesn't have to be Batgirl.

I'm fine with Stephanie Brown (I'm also a fan), but what gripes me is how Cass was conveniently tossed aside in #1.

What I'm peeved at is Cass mistreatment. I don't have anything against Stephanie.

Pity that can't be the same for the rest of the community. . .


----------



## Okkervil River (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> How did Cass rob Helena? Bat's already told her take off the cowl when she wore it plus, Cass was one of the league of Assassins which was guaranteed a lot of win. It's not just rushing it's how they're doing such a fail job at re-introducing Year-one Batgirl.



I don't mean she robbed her in-story.  I mean that at the time Cass was introduced in NML and it was announced there would be a new Batgirl, the majority of fans expected it to be Helena, which was an idea that was played up in the plot.  The fact that most people expected her to assume the mantle only to have it placed in the hands of a character who'd only been created a month before could be seen--and in fact by many people _was_ seen--as constituting a robbing.  But, as we all know, it was the right decision.



Comic Book Guy said:


> *simmers*



Don't be too offended please, because I do love Cass, and there's no doubt editorial has fucked her over and I hate it as much as anyone.  All I mean when I say that is that some fans of the character seem to forget she isn't the _only_ character that's happened to, and that it's highly unlikely there's some conspiracy out there to ruin her character.  Sometimes creators are just out of touch and bad writing is just bad writing.  And it's not just Cass fans:  the more rabid fans of any character have a tendency to be more than a little myopic.  But I have no doubt Dan Didio is sitting in his office right now believing that he's doing the character justice by having her drop the cowl and move on to whatever plans are in place for her, just like how I'm sure he thought making her the leader of the League of Assassins was a great idea at the time.  It's not exactly a comforting thought, but it is comics.

And--again, for the record--I do think she should still be Batgirl and I love Cass!  I can't help but think everything I'm saying is making me sound like I hate the character .


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Well, the "Batgirl" community is mainly comprise of Barbara Gordon-Batgirl fans, Barbara Gordon-Oracle fans, and Cassandra Cain fans.
> 
> And trust me when I say, the divided community is screaming bloody war, some desperately wanting the series to fail.



Well it will if not as many people pick up the series.

Tell me how many people here have picked it up? I don't have anything against Steph either (loved how bad she was when she returned from the dead). Cassandra could be the new Lady Shiva and team up with Steph as spoiler. Excellent combination if you ask me. Shoot, she would've looked good with her new costume in the first couple of One Year later comics had it not been for the crappy artists.

Plus, Steph's new Batgirl costume is so out-of-place. It's Gotham City and hasn't been made perfectly clear with the last Batman arc that flashly vigilantes are easily suspected and cracked down on by keen villains like Two-face or Black Mask who will go on to finding out their secret identity. At least as Spoiler Stephanie  stayed in the shadows.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 15, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Also this. But I still don't like how Barbara is portrayed at first. . . and it reads like Batman Beyond-lite.



What does this mean?


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

> I don't mean she robbed her in-story. I mean that at the time Cass was introduced in NML and it was announced there would be a new Batgirl, the majority of fans expected it to be Helena, which was an idea that was played up in the plot. The fact that most people expected her to assume the mantle only to have it placed in the hands of a character who'd only been created a month before could be seen--and in fact by many people was seen--as constituting a robbing. But, as we all know, it was the right decision.



My opinion there's too much similarity between Helena and long-haired Catwoman was the reason why they skipped that idea.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 15, 2009)

Okkervil River said:


> Don't be too offended please, because I do love Cass, and there's no doubt editorial has fucked her over and I hate it as much as anyone.  All I mean when I say that is that some fans of the character seem to forget she isn't the _only_ character that's happened to, and that it's highly unlikely there's some conspiracy out there to ruin her character.  Sometimes creators are just out of touch and bad writing is just bad writing.  And it's not just Cass fans:  the more rabid fans of any character have a tendency to be more than a little myopic.  But I have no doubt Dan Didio is sitting in his office right now believing that he's doing the character justice by having her drop the cowl and move on to whatever plans are in place for her, just like how I'm sure he thought making her the leader of the League of Assassins was a great idea at the time.  It's not exactly a comforting thought, but it is comics.



Indeed.

Off the top of my head, other characters I was pissed off for mistreatment were Leslie Thompkins, Stephanie Brown (yes, her), and Mary Marvel.

And ESPECIALLY Leslie Thompkins.

And IIRC, I still can't believe the Fables writer Bill Willingham was the one who did it.

And there's Hal Jordan. It had its own equivalent of the Cass-Cult (our predecessor, really) -- H.E.A.T.: Hal's Emerald Advancement Team.

As for Marvel. . . I say Spider-Man (OMD). . . and to an extent, Iron Man for Civil War.



> And--again, for the record--I do think she should still be Batgirl and I love Cass!  I can't help but think everything I'm saying is making me sound like I hate the character .



Oh, that's alright.

On the DC boards (which I lurk -- can't join, since I'm in Canada), there's this one troll who professes to be a Cass fan but everything he wants for the character is so against best interests. He's the ONLY one I know that praised Beechen's take of Cassandra Cain.

Good freaking heck, I wanted to unleash the bloody wall of text. . . but other Cass fans did it for me.

In sum, he's like the jplaya2023 of Cassandra Cain fandom.



Blaze of Glory said:


> Well it will if not as many people pick up the series.
> 
> Tell me how many people here have picked it up? I don't have anything against Steph either (loved how bad she was when she returned from the dead). Cassandra could be the new Lady Shiva and team up with Steph as spoiler. Excellent combination if you ask me. Shoot, she would've looked good with her new costume in the first couple of One Year later comics had it not been for the crappy artists.
> 
> Plus, Steph's new Batgirl costume is so out-of-place. It's Gotham City and hasn't been made perfectly clear with the last Batman arc that flashly vigilantes are easily suspected and cracked down on by keen villains like Two-face or Black Mask who will go on to finding out their secret identity. At least as Spoiler Stephanie  stayed in the shadows.



IIRC from what's reported on the Batgirl DC boards, the latest Batgirl issue dropped 3,000ish in sales for this month.

And IIRC, it's currently matching sales figures like Wonder Woman. So it'll go for awhile, at least.



ghstwrld said:


> What does this mean?



In terms of what?


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I don't like it not because it's bad* it's because it's showing that they want Cass to fade away from our memories *and replace her with Steph who was rushed into the role.





Why......would you think this? 

I mean, I know that Cass got a raw deal, but by replacing her they want to erase her from our minds?

What the fuck man? Did I miss something here?


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

> IIRC from what's reported on the Batgirl DC boards, the latest Batgirl issue dropped 3,000ish in sales for this month.
> 
> And IIRC, it's currently matching sales figures like Wonder Woman. So it'll go for awhile, at least.



Damn, that's a lot for such a lackluster series.



Chaos Ghost said:


> Why......would you think this?
> 
> I mean, I know that Cass got a raw deal, but by replacing her they want to erase her from our minds?
> 
> What the fuck man? Did I miss something here?



I remember reading an interview with Dan Didio who said "until we can have Cassandra Cain grace us with her appearance in the comics we can only hope that readers will come to love and respect Stephanie."

We do it's just we don't like their shitty treatment of one DC comics greatest sidekick characters. That part is just plain ridiculous. 

Plus, at the DC Nation panel yesterday at the Comic Con. Someone asked what was going to happen to Cassandra. They completely ignored the question (DiDio's answer was "Waffles.").


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 15, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Damn, that's a lot for such a lackluster series.
> 
> I remember reading an interview with Dan Didio who said "until we can have Cassandra Cain grace us with her appearance in the comics *we can only hope that readers will come to love and respect Stephanie*."



You're not going to get much readership from the "Batgirl" community.

There's also resentmen from the Oracle community too, put off with her characterization in the opening issues.



> We do it's just we don't like their shitty treatment of one DC comics greatest sidekick characters. That part is just plain ridiculous.
> 
> Plus, at the DC Nation panel yesterday at the Comic Con. Someone asked what was going to happen to Cassandra. They completely ignored the question (DiDio's answer was "Waffles.").



I fucking figured..


----------



## Bender (Nov 15, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> You're not going to get much readership from the "Batgirl" community.
> 
> There's also resentmen from the Oracle community too, put off with her characterization in the opening issues.



I do not get it *WHY* the fuck did they end the Birds of Prey series. Pretty much the only series with Barbara that I liked. Not to mention that team was Bruce's "Charlie's Angel" of the DC verse.


----------



## mow (Nov 15, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I fucking figured..



Am I the only one who fucking loves how DC consistently goes out of it's way to piss off CBG? Maybe it's their way to recruit him as a Red Lantern. XD


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2009)

mow said:


> Am I the only one who fucking loves how DC consistently goes out of it's way to piss off CBG? Maybe it's their way to recruit him as a Red Lantern. XD



LOL LOL

He's not the only one they could make a red lantern of 


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdeD1O6mz88[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 16, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Personally? Yes, I'm a Cass fan, but she can grow beyond the Batgirl mantle. She doesn't have to be Batgirl.
> 
> I'm fine with Stephanie Brown (I'm also a fan), but what gripes me is how Cass was conveniently tossed aside in #1.
> 
> ...



I'm surprised that Cass fans are expected to hate steph.

I always thought it was cool how Steph and Cass were friends, and that Cass showed steph a bit how to be a super serious badass crime fighter and that Steph showed Cass a bit on how to be an actual girl.

Steph needs the batgirl mantle in order to grow, and to sell books.

I for one would love to see some Cass "walks the earth" stories, focusing on her as a martial artist, and THEN as a crimefighter. This could also lead into a crossover in another bat book...which just so happens to involve the league of assassins. (shameless plug, love tim/cass team ups.)


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> I'm surprised that Cass fans are expected to hate steph.
> 
> I always thought it was cool how Steph and Cass were friends, and that Cass showed steph a bit how to be a super serious badass crime fighter and that Steph showed Cass a bit on how to be an actual girl.
> 
> Steph needs the batgirl mantle in order to grow, and to sell books.



Why would she need it to grow?

Last time she wore one of the bat family mantles she looked like a child because she was rushing. Shit, she went cross the world with Leslie for christ sakes. If anything she's just doing her part til' it's Cassandra who does the growing up. If anything her taking up the mantle in place of her friends is the writers trolling us. She was better off just being Spoiler with her non-flashy costume. This new one is just screaming "please try and find out my secret identity" leading to someone liek Two-face suspect her of not being the original or just someone else.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 16, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Why would she need it to grow?
> 
> Last time she wore one of the bat family mantles she looked like a child because she was rushing. Shit, she went cross the world with Leslie for christ sakes. If anything she's just doing her part til' it's Cassandra who does the growing up. If anything her taking up the mantle in place of her friends is the writers trolling us. She was better off just being Spoiler with her non-flashy costume. This new one is just screaming* "please try and find out my secret identity" leading to someone liek Two-face suspect her of not being the original or just someone else*.



I dont think they're trying to keep the fact that she's not the original Batgirl a secret.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 16, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Why would she need it to grow?
> 
> Last time she wore one of the bat family mantles she looked like a child because she was rushing. Shit, she went cross the world with Leslie for christ sakes. If anything she's just doing her part til' it's Cassandra who does the growing up. If anything her taking up the mantle in place of her friends is the writers trolling us. She was better off just being Spoiler with her non-flashy costume. This new one is just screaming "please try and find out my secret identity" leading to someone liek Two-face suspect her of not being the original or just someone else.



Okay, more so to sell books. But her being bat-girl gives writers a chance to show her as more competent than she used to be, and people actually recognizing it.


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2009)

^

But why would they need to do that when she was able to outwit Oracle and Tim? That's more than enough proof for me.




Chaos Ghost said:


> I dont think they're trying to keep the fact that she's not the original Batgirl a secret.



Well not that but her identity as Spoiler which is bound to draw the attention of Black Mask or The Penguin who gave her her costume when she returned her trip around the world.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 16, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> But why would they need to do that when she was able to outwit Oracle and Tim? That's more than enough proof for me.


 Because to some people that's considered an outlier? I still feel like she's most known for war games and her stint as Robin. 

But as i said over in the general DC thread, i just got caught up on batgirl and im a pretty big fan. It's light hearted and really funny and i wholeheartedly support it.

Still wanna see some more cass though.


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Because to some people that's considered an outlier? I still feel like she's most known for war games and her stint as Robin.



Yeah she is. I gotta give her cred for standing up to the Black Mask. Really ballsy of her.




> But as i said over in the general DC thread, i just got caught up on batgirl and im a pretty big fan. It's light hearted and really funny and i wholeheartedly support it.




I want a SPOILER comic though 

EDIT:

You got the Batman Family comics btw? she also shows off her killer moves when there's this group targetting the Batman family.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2009)

ok, so moving on.  Anyone read new RR?

took a while but the series has finally reached a solid level of readability.  

Flashbacks are almost over, wangst levels are at an all-time low, Tim finally acting in character, they replaced Bachs with To.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2009)

ok, so moving on.  Anyone read new RR?

took a while but the series has finally reached a solid level of readability.  

Flashbacks are almost over, wangst levels are at an all-time low, Tim finally acting in character, they replaced Bachs with To.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 16, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> ok, so moving on.  Anyone read new RR?
> 
> took a while but the series has finally reached a solid level of readability.
> 
> Flashbacks are almost over, wangst levels are at an all-time low, Tim finally acting in character, they replaced Bachs with To.



I like it. Tim is starting to finally act cool, and like you said there's a distinct lack of wangst...which is always good.

Looking forward to next issue.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2009)

> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #8-9
> 
> Issue #8 on sale February 10 - Issue #9 on sale February 24 - 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by Grant Morrison - Art and Variant covers by Cameron Stewart - Covers by Frank Quitely*
> ...









> *BATMAN #696
> On sale February 17 - 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by Tony Daniel - Art by Tony Daniel & Sandu Florea - Cover by Tony Daniel*
> 
> Batman at the mercy of Black Mask! While trapped in the crime lord's headquarters, The Dark Knight must find a way to escape before all of Gotham City falls prey to the Mask's lethal toxins. Guest-starring Catwoman, Penguin, Robin and the Reaper!









> *DETECTIVE COMICS #862
> On sale February 24 - 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by Greg Rucka - Art by Jock - co-feature art by Cully Hamner - Cover by JH Williams III*
> 
> ...









> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #9
> On sale February 17 - 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by Paul Dini; co-feature written by Marc Andreyko Art by Dustin Nguyen & Derek Fridolfs - co-feature art by Jeremy Haun - Cover by Dustin Nguyen*
> 
> ...









> *AZRAEL #5
> On sale February 17 - 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by Fabian Nicieza - Art by Ramon Bachs & John Stanisci - Cover by Francesco Mattina*
> 
> When civil unrest between the Palestinian and Hassidic communities in Gotham City boils over with potential international ramifications, Azrael must devise a solution – even if it means losing his soul inside the tattered cloak of Ragman!









> *BATGIRL #7
> On sale February 10 - 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by Bryan Q. Miller - Art by Lee Garbett & Trevor Scott - cover by Phil Noto*
> 
> The situation is dire as Batgirl and Robin must venture into Devil's Square in an attempt to save Batman before Roulette's "most dangerous game" turns deadly. Guest-starring Dr. Phosphorus, Roxy Rocket and Riot, and more!









> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #9
> On sale February 24 - 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by Paul Dini - Art and cover by Guillem March*
> 
> The Riddler continues leading the Gotham City Sirens into a labyrinth of puzzling predicaments. Is Edward Nigma friend or foe? Whatever the case may be, the girls are going to get their revenge.









> *RED ROBIN #9
> On sale February 3 - 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by Christopher Yost
> Art and cover by Marcus To & Ray McCarthy*
> ...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 16, 2009)

Holy hell that's so much awesome!

Glad that RR is headin back to gotham, and that Tim is the one who figures out that bruce is lost in time.



> Red Robin returns to Gotham City as "Collision" begins! Now armed with the knowledge that Bruce Wayne is lost in time, what is Tim Drake going to do about it?



Give Dick, Damian, Steph, and Cassie a nice big "I TOLD YOU SO"?


----------



## Z (Nov 16, 2009)

Tim always was smarter than the others.  




Blaze of Glory said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdeD1O6mz88[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 16, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> ok, so moving on.  Anyone read new RR?
> 
> took a while but the series has finally reached a solid level of readability.
> 
> Flashbacks are almost over, wangst levels are at an all-time low, Tim finally acting in character, they replaced Bachs with To.



Haven't gotten around to it yet, plan to though


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 16, 2009)

mow said:


> Am I the only one who fucking loves how DC consistently goes out of it's way to piss off CBG? Maybe it's their way to recruit him as a Red Lantern. XD



If they screw with her again, I'm taking the Rage Emotion avatar.


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2009)

I knew Tim was the smartest out of everyone in the Bat-family  (aside Bruce that is)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 16, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I knew Tim was the smartest out of everyone in the Bat-family  (aside Bruce that is)



I thought this would be obvious 

Also, this just occurred to me...with bruce "dead", is Tim the world's greatest detective?


----------



## Bender (Nov 17, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> I thought this would be obvious
> 
> Also, this just occurred to me...with bruce "dead", is Tim the world's greatest detective?



Arguably yes he is. Bruce even commended him for being 2nd to him during his narrrative in Batman: Hush

Btw I got Batman: Child of Dreams today 

Batman + Drawn in manga style = Super fucking win


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 17, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I knew Tim was the smartest out of everyone in the Bat-family  (aside Bruce that is)



Congrats on knowing what's been basiclly confirmed


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> ok, so moving on.  Anyone read new RR?
> 
> took a while but the series has finally reached a solid level of readability.
> 
> Flashbacks are almost over, wangst levels are at an all-time low, Tim finally acting in character, they replaced Bachs with To.



It's been more of the same - which is to say Yost is continuing his shabby execution of a painfully convoluted plot that's loaded with an unseemly amount of waste and redundancy - except we're moving further and further away from what was supposed to be the business at hand.  

What was that again?  

Oh, yes, unraveling the mystery of Batman's adventures post the Omega Sanction. 

Thanks, but no thanks.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2009)

never said it was a masterpiece or anything, Tim's appearance on Adventure Comics trumps the whole series so far, but it's gotten to the point where personally it's not painful anymore.  also I just like To's art, just kinda clicked for me.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 17, 2009)

Are you paying money to read RR?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> It's been more of the same - which is to say Yost is continuing his shabby execution of a painfully convoluted plot that's loaded with an unseemly amount of waste and redundancy - except we're moving further and further away from what was supposed to be the business at hand.
> 
> What was that again?
> 
> ...



Meh, it makes sense to me. Tim found himself at a dead end, hooked up with Ra's in order to further the search for bruce (which worked). At that point it's not like he could just be like "Oh thanks Ra's, but i gotta split." 

I'd be pissed if he managed to just get away from the assassin's guild and continue searching for bruce. It makes sense to me that he's using this opportunity to put them down, and i think it's worth putting the search for bruce on hold.

Also, the writing is getting better (to me at least) with every issue. Yost is finally getting the hang of writing Tim. Admittedly, he still needs to cut back on the flashbacks though haha.



Kilowog said:


> never said it was a masterpiece or anything, Tim's appearance on Adventure Comics trumps the whole series so far, but it's gotten to the point where personally it's not painful anymore.  also I just like To's art, just kinda clicked for me.



Yea, its kinda funny how Geoff Johns writes Tim better than the guy writing the Tim book, but that's Geoff Johns haha.

And yea, at first i was only getting because i'm a die hard Tim fan, and it was mediocre at best. Now I can say the book is genuinely enjoyable.


----------



## Bender (Nov 17, 2009)

Dick Grayson 


is 


a



pimp

He's got both Babs and Huntress


----------



## Z (Nov 17, 2009)

You only forgot Starfire, Raven, and a shitload others. :ho


----------



## Bender (Nov 17, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> You only forgot Starfire, Raven, and a shitload others. :ho



It' a damn shame this never came to pass



Because we all know one night with a 6 pack of beer he'd wax that ass


----------



## Z (Nov 17, 2009)

If I had the image when Black Canary saw him in the shower...


----------



## Bender (Nov 18, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> If I had the image when Black Canary saw him in the shower...



Canary was one of his hoes too?  Damn Dick is the man.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Canary was one of his hoes too?  Damn Dick is the man.



I dunno if they ever did it....but it'd awesome if they did.

I know my nig Ras has tapped that though


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> Are you paying money to read RR?



not after the 1st issue* read on rack, borrow it from friends,, or find online


*I have a weakness for shelling out for #1s to see if I like them, sure this has led to some wasted cash, but it's also led me to some true gems like DC's new Shield book


----------



## Bender (Nov 18, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I dunno if they ever did it....but it'd awesome if they did.
> 
> I know my nig Ras has tapped that though



That's just weird... Ra's with Dinah


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> That's just weird... Ra's with Dinah



I betcha Ra's is a selfish lover

Dude, if I were a superhero, I'd totally go Bruce Wayne status and keep part of my costume on during


----------



## Bender (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm still wondering who's the bigger pimp though

Bruce or Dick? ..... 

Bruce has Catwoman ,Poison Ivy, Vesper Fair child, Bordeaux and so on while Dick has Oracle, Huntress, Starefire, etc.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I'm still wondering who's the bigger pimp though
> 
> Bruce or Dick? .....
> 
> Bruce has Catwoman ,Poison Ivy, Vesper Fair child, Bordeaux and so on while Dick has Oracle, Huntress, Starefire, etc.





Gotta give Dick the edge, any man who can get as much trim as him after spending a bulk of their career in boyshorts is auto-win I'd have to think


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Gotta give Dick the edge, any man who can get as much trim as him after spending a bulk of their career in boyshorts is auto-win I'd have to think



This.

Also, Dick wins forever, due solely to the time he banged Babs, and then the next morning was like "Hmm...why did i come over here again? Oh yea! Starfire and I are getting married! Wanna come!?"

And yet she STILL digs the guy, and babs is no pushover. It just means Dick is that awesome.


----------



## Bender (Nov 18, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> This.
> 
> Also, Dick wins forever, due solely to the time he banged Babs, and then the next morning was like "Hmm...why did i come over here again? Oh yea! Starfire and I are getting married! Wanna come!?"
> 
> And yet she STILL digs the guy, and babs is no pushover. It just means Dick is that awesome.



I lol'ed my ass off @ that issue


----------



## mow (Nov 18, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> It just means Dick's dick is that awesome.


 
. .  .


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> This.
> 
> Also, Dick wins forever, due solely to the time he banged Babs, and then the next morning was like "Hmm...why did i come over here again? Oh yea! Starfire and I are getting married! Wanna come!?"
> 
> And yet she STILL digs the guy, and babs is no pushover. It just means Dick is that awesome.



Ya know how the Battledomes they do threads about certain character's feats and stuff?

That should def be one of Dick's top feats


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2009)

that entire issue was awesome.  remember Dick hiding his boner from Babs and Batman?


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> that entire issue was awesome.  remember Dick hiding his boner from Babs and Batman?



What issue was that anyway? i've only seen it in panels


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2009)

Nightwing Annual #2


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: Streets of Gotham #5 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Azrael #2 preview_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Ya know how the Battledomes they do threads about certain character's feats and stuff?
> 
> That should def be one of Dick's top feats



Seriously, there are three things that Dick has shown that he is the champ of in the DC universe.

1. Leadership
2. Acrobatics
3. Mackin 

Unfortunately though, Dick's incredible charisma is both a gift...and a curse. (See tarantula lolrape)


----------



## mow (Nov 18, 2009)

I cant put into words how much I love the art on B:SoG and Azrael .


----------



## Bender (Nov 18, 2009)

Dick is indeed a pimp anyone who knows how take advantage of a chick just to get some pussy is da man. 



Kilowog said:


> that entire issue was awesome.  remember Dick hiding his boner from Babs and Batman?



 

That's what was touching Bab's when they trapped in the safe?

*View Poll Results*

Dick's face is fucking hilarious 

He's like "I can't let them see it....Control your dick Dick ..Control your dick Dick...Control your dick Dick..."  

Also who do you guys think is the finest of Bruce and Dick's hoes? 

For Bruce I think It's Talia and Dick Huntress.


----------



## Z (Nov 18, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Canary was one of his hoes too?  Damn Dick is the man.



Oliver didn't find out.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 19, 2009)

Azrael was *GREAT* 

also 2 thoughts on BSoG

1). that priest is awesome
2). Two-Face slitting a guy's throat _with his coin_ is the best idea ever


----------



## Bender (Nov 19, 2009)

Damn me and my shortage on cash 

I want these new issues 

Btw you guys is Doctor Hurt from the Black Glove really the devil?


----------



## Z (Nov 19, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Btw you guys is Doctor Hurt from the Black Glove really the devil?



Is he coming back anytime soon?


----------



## Bender (Nov 20, 2009)

It's a possibility


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 20, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> Is he coming back anytime soon?





Blaze of Glory said:


> It's a possibility


Isn't he already back? I thought he was the guy who was whipping himself at the end of Batman and Robin 6.


----------



## Bender (Nov 20, 2009)

Bergelmir said:


> Isn't he already back? I thought he was the guy who was whipping himself at the end of Batman and Robin 6.



Here's a wacky theory

What if

**Drum roll**


Doctor Hurt is the new Black Mask?


----------



## Z (Nov 20, 2009)

That's probably true.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 20, 2009)

No               .


----------



## Bender (Nov 20, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> That's probably true.



If he is I'll jizz myself 

I love reading Batman R.I.P. over and over again

Ya know I hate bringing up the Cass Cain argument but I wish she was in Batman R.I.P. I mean she's apart of the goddamn family. 

It's going to be interesting to see how Dick fairs against Doctor Hurt :aewsome or like I like to call him Doctor Devil 

@Kilowog why couldn't he be Black Mask?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 20, 2009)

Hurt is going to show up in B&R.  Black Mask is mainly in the other bat books.


----------



## Bender (Nov 21, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> Hurt is going to show up in B&R.  Black Mask is mainly in the other bat books.



Did Morrison or DC say that? 

If so I reallllly need to get some cash to get those issues


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 21, 2009)

Azrael is awesome

That is all


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 21, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> Meh, it makes sense to me. Tim found himself at a dead end, hooked up with Ra's in order to further the search for bruce (which worked). At that point it's not like he could just be like "Oh thanks Ra's, but i gotta split."
> 
> I'd be pissed if he managed to just get away from the assassin's guild and continue searching for bruce. It makes sense to me that he's using this opportunity to put them down, and i think it's worth putting the search for bruce on hold.
> 
> Also, the writing is getting better (to me at least) with every issue. Yost is finally getting the hang of writing Tim. Admittedly, he still needs to cut back on the flashbacks though haha.



All of the so-called schisms that leave Tim emotionally cornered and desperate enough to work with Ra's are laughably specious, especially when the current mega narrative within DC comics is Blackest-FUCKING-Night. Blegh!



Kilowog said:


> not after the 1st issue* read on rack, borrow it from friends,, or find online
> 
> 
> *I have a weakness for shelling out for #1s to see if I like them, sure this has led to some wasted cash, but it's also led me to some true gems like DC's new Shield book



Hmm....


----------



## Castiel (Nov 21, 2009)

yes yes we get it already

you hate high standards and touch yourself while reading a thesaurus


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 21, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> yes yes we get it already
> 
> you hate high standards and touch yourself while reading a thesaurus



You have something against thesauruses? Dictionaries and thesauruses are great.

On topic: Batman is gud. 


Say, are we supposed to expect the pink flamboyant wacko from Batman and Robin to actually still be alive or something? It only just struck me that its too quick for a new character to die, despite the dude having his neck slashed, being dropped down a cliff, and having several rocks drop on him.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 21, 2009)

> are we supposed to expect the pink flamboyant wacko from Batman and Robin to actually still be alive or something?


he's alive in the future of Batman #666


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 21, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> yes yes we get it already
> 
> you hate high standards and touch yourself while reading a thesaurus


----------



## Castiel (Nov 21, 2009)

thank you, I'll be here all week


----------



## Bender (Nov 22, 2009)

Finally, I got Batman & Robin issue 6 and Batman 693


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 22, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> he's alive in the future of Batman #666



Is he now? Interesting. I'ma have to reread that issue.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 23, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #859 preview_


----------



## Z (Nov 23, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Finally, I got Batman & Robin issue 6 and Batman 693 :Awesome



Dammittt still didn't come.


----------



## Bender (Nov 23, 2009)

Yo question guys

You think Dick is going to die like the Batman in the future of issue #666


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 26, 2009)

Dick Grayson?

Dead?

Nope.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 27, 2009)

I would nerd rage like crazy if Dick died, i was crazy on edge back during infinite crisis. Sorry superboy, but im SO glad you died and not dick.


----------



## Bender (Nov 28, 2009)

yo guys i looked online on the status Damian's popularity and it indicates that he's disliked intensely (perhaps just as much as jason Todd plz god no...  )

So I gotta ask you guys how feel about Damian so far? You like him more or hate him more or just as much as Jason Todd?


----------



## mow (Nov 28, 2009)

I love Damian,if he ever needed a kidney I'd give him Banhammer's instantly. no questions asked.


----------



## Slice (Nov 28, 2009)

Damian started out as annoying, but now i really like him.

Especially the dynamic that he and Dick have with the "super serious" Robin and the smiling Batman


----------



## jdbzkh (Nov 28, 2009)

I like Damion especially after Batman & Robin where you could see he's starting to look up too and appreciate Dick. Plus that whole scene of I was expecting scary not gay was F-ing awesome.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 28, 2009)

Damian has grown on me.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 28, 2009)

mow said:


> I love Damian,if he ever needed a kidney I'd give him Banhammer's instantly. no questions asked.



Oh yeah?

Well make sure you get the good one ya bastard.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 28, 2009)

I used to hate him but now he's decent. He's best written in Batman and Robin though.


----------



## Z (Nov 29, 2009)

I never hated Damian really. But how he used to punk Tim...I frowned upon.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 29, 2009)

Echizen Ryoma said:


> I never hated Damian really. But how he used to punk Tim...I frowned upon.



It's kind of annoying how downplayed Tim was in their encounters, but i still like their interactions. They're basically super dysfunctional siblings.

But i love how Damian sets Tim off so easily, it makes me laugh.

Overall i like damian. B and R has done wonders for him.


----------



## shit (Nov 30, 2009)

Damian makes B&R. It used to be the villains that made the book, but the last two issues make me disappoint.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 30, 2009)

damn.  Clayface really needs to go on prozac or something.


----------



## mow (Nov 30, 2009)

His scenes were borderline Volstagg. I love this book


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 30, 2009)

Wait which book?


----------



## mow (Nov 30, 2009)

The Arkham Reborn mini, issue 2. Really really good. 

I really should get to reading all the post BfTC bat family books now.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 30, 2009)

Ohhh ok, I haven't read that yet.


----------



## mow (Nov 30, 2009)

It's really loads of fun. It's quickly turning to my fav DC sleeper hit. Hine is at top of his game. I hope he gets more slots in the future.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 2, 2009)

so yeah, speaking of Damian, did anyone read the new World's Finest?  #2 was the Guardian/Damian team up.

I liked it 



oh and on Detective, I loved the way JHW3 merged his two styles in the last few pages.


----------



## Bender (Dec 2, 2009)

Windwaker said:


> It's kind of annoying how downplayed Tim was in their encounters, but i still like their interactions. They're basically super dysfunctional siblings.
> 
> But i love how Damian sets Tim off so easily, it makes me laugh.
> 
> Overall i like damian. B and R has done wonders for him.



It'd be cooler if Damian attended the Gotham Gazelle's that Dick Barbara Helena and the rest of family do more often.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 2, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Damian has grown on me.



I've liked him since I read 666


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 5, 2009)

Speaking of Gazelle, has anyone heard from Vicki Vale lately?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 5, 2009)

she appeared in the new Red Robin


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 5, 2009)

Ah. Should have figured.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 9, 2009)

NOW THIS IS SOMETHING I CAN GET BEHIND




*Spoiler*: _BRUCE FUCKING WAYNE_ 



The World’s Greatest Detective is facing his toughest mystery.

Lost in the timestream, believed to be dead by his friends and enemies alike, Bruce Wayne must use every bit of intelligence, every ounce of strength and training he’s acquired over the years to find his way back to the city, and adopted family of vigilantes, he’d left behind.

>Blasted by the mysterious and powerful Omega Effect in the pages of FINAL CRISIS during a deadly battle with the malevolent New God Darkseid, Bruce Wayne must battle back through the waves of time to reclaim what was his – his city, his life…his cowl?

From the kinetic and awe-inspiring imagination of writer Grant Morrison and an all-star cast of artists, including Chris Sprouse, who’ll handle art chores on the first issue, BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #1 (of 6) hits in April and will prove to be Bruce Wayne’s defining moment as a hero, and his toughest challenge yet.

But enough from me – what do the players have to say about this breaking news? Well, suffice to say, Morrison is calling the mini-series: “The latest chapter in the long-running, ‘definitive’ Batman epic.”

And how ’bout those amazing Andy Kubert design sketches?

For a bit more, swing by USA TODAY.com, where John Geddes sits down with Morrison to get more insight on where Bruce Wayne – and the entire Bat-universe – is heading.





OH FUCKING GOD    SO MUCH WIN


----------



## Castiel (Dec 9, 2009)

Morrison interview



also


----------



## Taleran (Dec 9, 2009)

and now some comedy about the situation



accompanying music _I'm So Tired_

*Spoiler*: __ 



LONG AGO IN A MEGA-CROSSOVER

I! DARKSEID, THE MASTER OF ANTI-LIFE

UNLEASHED AN UNSPEAKABLE EVIL!

BUT A FOOLISH SUPERHERO WIELDING A RADION BULLET STEPPED FORTH TO OPPOSE ME

BEFORE THE FINAL BLOW WAS STRUCK (BUT NOT IN TIME TO STOP HIM), I TORE OPEN A PORTAL IN TIME AND FLUNG HIM INTO THE PAST, WHERE MY EVIL IS LAW!

NOW THE FOOL SEEKS TO RETURN TO THE PRESENT, AND UNDO A FUTURE THAT *IS* DARKSEID!


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 9, 2009)

God that sounds so good. Given what I've read though, I wonder if Morrison will use this to literally de-age Batman. And I really wonder what the batman/robin dynamic would be after this. Bruce/Damian? And then Nightwing and Red Robin as ancillary characters? Assuming Nightwing doesn't die.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 9, 2009)

Petes12 said:


> God that sounds so good. Given what I've read though, I wonder if Morrison will use this to literally de-age Batman. And I really wonder what the batman/robin dynamic would be after this. Bruce/Damian? And then Nightwing and Red Robin as ancillary characters? Assuming Nightwing doesn't die.



I really hope Tim doesn't remain Red Robin. It's a stupid name, and a mediocre costume. I like it for the purpose it has now, but i really really really dont want it to become Tim's primary identity.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 9, 2009)

There are some crazy theories flying around linking Hurt not to the Devil but instead Darkseid and then all into this

also that it might tie into Vandal Savage his Red Rock and the Bible of Crime

oh and also



now we know the reason why


----------



## Castiel (Dec 9, 2009)

In the end of World's Finest #1 Tim steals a letter written in Gotham in the 18th century :ho



Taleran said:


> now we know the reason why



I always assumed it was because of Anthro and his magic fire scaring ol' Krull

anyways the idea of Batman thwarting Savage through the ages is too awesoem for words

hope he includes Ra's into this.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 9, 2009)

Quitely and Irving taking longer than expected, now being shifted to 5th and 6th arcs.

4th arc artist will now be Andy Clarke (REBELS)


----------



## Taleran (Dec 9, 2009)

Did not see that one coming


----------



## Castiel (Dec 9, 2009)

indeed, guess Morrison read the Confidential arc where Clarke drew Batman going to moscow and beating the shit out of russians and a mutated bear man and had the same reaction the rest of us had: 

this will likely affect REBELS the same way Confidential did, with Claude St. Aubin filling in for a few issues


arc Clarke is working on will be entitled


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 9, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> In the end of World's Finest #1 Tim steals a letter written in Gotham in the 18th century :ho



Oh yea...

Was there any clue as to what the contents were? If it's a letter written about/by/to batman that would be so freakin awesome.

Honestly, as a Tim fan this whole batman adventuring through time is awesome. The more complex and insane this whole thing gets, the more awesome and insane it is that Tim is figuring it out.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 9, 2009)

> The first episode is set in the Late-Paleolithic Era, the second is in Pilgrim-era Gotham Village, and we also get to see Gotham in Western or noir style.
> 
> Each of the stories is a twist on a different "pulp hero" genre ? so there's the caveman story, the witchhunter/Puritan adventurer thing, the pirate Batman, the cowboy, the P.I. ? as a nod toward those mad old 1950s comics with Caveman Batman and Viking Batman adventures. It's Bruce Wayne's ultimate challenge ? Batman vs. history itself!
> 
> I've tried to thoroughly research each time period so that the stories work not only as at least fairly plausible reconstructions of life in the real 17th or 19th centuries but also as romanticized "pulp" versions too, while at the same time referencing the more extravagant history of the fictional DC Comics Universe in the background.




Quantum Leap staring Bruce Wayne?

Yes, please.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2009)

how is that Quantum Leap?  He's not jumping into other people.

Also there is the crucial difference that Bruce will actually make it back home 

also weren't you just bashing this idea a few months ago for ripping off Vonnegut even though he didn't create the concept 



anyways Quitely covers for *Batman VS Robin*


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 10, 2009)

Dear Quitely

*DRAW MOAR*

Also, Damian looks awesome with that claymore. All he needs to do is say FREEEDOMMMM! while wielding it ha.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 10, 2009)

The second one is really funny, the image of Batman actually trying to throw Robin off a building isn't one you see every day.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 10, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> how is that Quantum Leap?  He's not jumping into other people.
> 
> Also there is the crucial difference that Bruce will actually make it back home



He mind as well be doing so.  I mean, Caveman Batman to Viking Batman to Pilgrim Batman and so on is as different as it gets.



Kilowog said:


> also weren't you just bashing this idea a few months ago for ripping off Vonnegut even though he didn't create the concept



Suspension of disbelief, man.

It's quid pro quo, and Brubaker totally reneged on his end.  The same goes for pretty much everything JJ Abrams has ever worked on - no, I'm still not over Felicity.  





> anyways Quitely covers for *Batman VS Robin*
> 
> Manolo Blahnik
> 
> Manolo Blahnik


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 10, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> He mind as well be doing so.  I mean, Caveman Batman to Viking Batman to Pilgrim Batman and so on is as different as it gets.



I wanna know how he manages to move forward through these times. 

Would it have something to do with the Omega Sanction? Or is Bruce going to make a time machine not just IN A CAVE, but with A BOX OF...Rock, Wood, and Animal hide? lol.


----------



## Bender (Dec 10, 2009)

How does Bruce get out of the Omega Sanction?


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 10, 2009)

Read Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle.

This sounds like a more robust version of the relevant portions of that story.


----------



## Slice (Dec 10, 2009)

Quitely covers deliver awesomeness, is that man even remotely able to draw something that does not look stunning?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 10, 2009)

Taleran said:


> There are some crazy theories flying around linking Hurt not to the Devil but instead Darkseid and then all into this
> 
> also that it might tie into Vandal Savage his Red Rock and the Bible of Crime



ehhh I wouldn't put it past Morrison, but he refers to Hurt as the devil.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 11, 2009)




----------



## Castiel (Dec 11, 2009)

too many great quotes to pick a favorite


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 11, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> too many great quotes to pick a favorite



"There's an 11th commandment, Moses. Write this down: I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN."


----------



## Bender (Dec 11, 2009)

Btw you guys when Bruce emerges from the Omega Sanction do you think he'll be traumatized and still sane from the experience?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 11, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Btw you guys when Bruce emerges from the Omega Sanction do you think he'll be traumatized and still sane from the experience?



He'll be fine. You know why? He's _fucking Batman_. And Batman _mans the fuck up_. That's what he does. I'm pretty sure its his super power.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 11, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Btw you guys when Bruce emerges from the Omega Sanction do you think he'll be traumatized and still sane from the experience?



Last Rites was basically the same idea on a much smaller scale and inside his mind


----------



## jdbzkh (Dec 12, 2009)

Bruce going through time... Hmm; I wonder if he will be the cause of the Wayne's trillions and there mansion being built over the cave not to mention he might actually become Joe Chill to ensure that he becomes Batman. lol 

Other than that its nice to know Dick and Damion will still rule for at least one more year and with the whole two batman thing Dick's not going to give up the mantle that easily.


----------



## Bender (Dec 12, 2009)

jdbzkh said:


> Bruce going through time... Hmm; I wonder if he will be the cause of the Wayne's trillions and there mansion being built over the cave not to mention he might actually become Joe Chill to ensure that he becomes Batman. lol
> 
> Other than that its nice to know Dick and Damion will still rule for at least one more year and with the whole two batman thing Dick's not going to give up the mantle that easily.



He'll most likely give it up since he was reluctant as hell to take the mantle.

If it wasn't for the psychological effect it had on Gotham City then he wouldn't have become Batman


----------



## Taleran (Dec 12, 2009)

I'm more wondering if the Dinosaur is a real one that is stuffed and not a Robot


----------



## Castiel (Dec 12, 2009)

In Heart of Hush it was turned on and went on a rampage and it also broke and was shown to be mechanical.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 12, 2009)

Just read 666 again, what a fine issue, oh and how do you think the B&R Joker run will go without Bruce around?

I have a feeling once Joker finds out its not His Batman that he'd get bored and leave


----------



## Slice (Dec 12, 2009)

He will have his usual plays and soon find out that the Batman is not the same, he then will at first be very confused and question his own actions.
Then he goes into some sort of "Batman withdrawal" trying to kill Dick / Damian to lure the real Batman out and then becomes really depressive when he realizes it does not work.

I would love to see the Joker get deconstructed bit by bit, maybe even showcasing a modified version of the five stages of grief all based on the loss of the most important thing in his life - his adversary.


----------



## Bender (Dec 13, 2009)

You guys sure Joker won't revert to the same state he did in the "Going sane" arc? 

Also I just re-read Batman 693 

All I can say is 

The Riddler is baaaaaaaaaaaaaack. 

Does this mean big trouble for Bats? More important the Sirens (since it's said he crosses paths with them in an the issue after the next one.)


----------



## Castiel (Dec 13, 2009)

> I have a feeling once Joker finds out its not His Batman that he'd get bored and leave


This happened when Azrael was batman

but honestly I think he'll stick around.  Dick has been around about as long as Joker, so I think he'll humor him and try to kill him.

Also he'll definitely want to add 2 more on his list of dead Robins.


----------



## Rod (Dec 15, 2009)

Hei, remember that have to notice to what earth will Bruce return at first moment, will it be this one or the other from the new gods, only to later (1 year after dick/damian/tim arcs?) find a passage in the multiverse (Brainiac much?) to the current again.


----------



## Slice (Dec 15, 2009)

I so want to own this as a print


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 16, 2009)




----------



## Bender (Dec 16, 2009)

I was just looking at a scene that I saw in the Batman encyclopedia and I need to ask you guys which issue is this from?



This in some fantasy world or some shit like that? Or else worlds?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 16, 2009)

90s. Probably by the Queen of Fables.


----------



## Bender (Dec 17, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> 90s. Probably by the Queen of Fables.



Say what? Who the hell is the Queen of Fables


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2009)

it was an issue of Nightwing.  Selina is having a daydream.

the rest of the issue is her trying to seduce Dick to make Bruce jelous.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2009)




----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 17, 2009)




----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2009)

I'll just come out and say it.

I like Batgirl.

I have no real defense or explanation for it, I just do for some reason.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I'll just come out and say it.
> 
> I like Batgirl.
> 
> I have no real defense or explanation for it, I just do for some reason.



It's a fun book. That's the only reasoning I have for it.

I'm not ashamed of liking it at all.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2009)

I love the Steph/Damian scenes.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 17, 2009)

I want to like it, but BQM has some of the worst writing ticks I've encountered in quite some time.  There's the rote plotting, the grating degree of irreverence - especially with regard to the dialogue, and sloppy craftsmanship.

And her battle suit is *really* tragic.

The scene featuring Damien in snow is the only good thing about the last issue.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2009)

I liked the knife conversation, but yeah that bit in the snow was good too. ("what chest?", his little snow bats)


----------



## Okkervil River (Dec 17, 2009)

Is it bad that I actually find the most interesting storyline in Batgirl to be Wendy's?


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 17, 2009)

lol

That subplot hasn't developed beyond a couple of pages in five whole issues.


----------



## Okkervil River (Dec 17, 2009)

ghstwrld said:


> lol
> 
> That subplot hasn't developed beyond a couple of pages in five whole issues.



Yeah, that's exactly why it's the most intriguing!


----------



## Taleran (Dec 17, 2009)

I completely forgot this came out this week





> #12 -
> Cover Date - December 2009. - December 16th - 32 pages
> Written by Landry Walker Art and cover by Eric Jones
> 
> It's our very special* 'Final Christmas' *issue! Batman must team up with Adam Strange in order to save Earth, Rann, the Universe - and Christmas - before reality as we know it is destroyed forever!


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2009)

Nothing will top Reddy searching for the christmas feeling


----------



## Bender (Dec 17, 2009)

Kilowog said:


> I'll just come out and say it.
> 
> I like Batgirl.
> 
> I have no real defense or explanation for it, I just do for some reason.



Don't worry, I don't hate you...









































too much..


----------



## Slice (Dec 19, 2009)

Isnt he adorable?

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Bender (Dec 19, 2009)

^

*VERY *

Btw

am I the only one who thinks Dick's new bat suit looks cool. 



Also I love the dark brooding expression he has on his face at the end of issue #694 pek pek

Anyone else?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 19, 2009)

Slice said:


> Isnt he adorable?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



The proud son every parent would die to have.


----------



## shit (Dec 19, 2009)

hahaha
someone check his head for the mark of the beast


----------



## Castiel (Dec 21, 2009)

> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #10
> On sale MARCH 10 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> Art by ANDY CLARKE & SCOTT HANNA
> ...









> *BATMAN #697
> On sale MARCH 17 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by TONY DANIEL
> Art by TONY DANIEL & SANDU FLOREA
> ...









> *DETECTIVE COMICS #863
> On sale MARCH 31 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by GREG RUCKA
> Art by JOCK
> ...









> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #10
> On sale MARCH 24 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by PAUL DINI
> Co-feature written by MARC ANDREYKO
> ...









> *AZRAEL #6
> On sale MARCH 17 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by FABIAN NICIEZA • Art by RAMON BACHS & JOHN STANISCI
> Cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA*
> Having been exposed to the memories of his predecessors, Michael Lane is consumed with learning all he can about their past but fears that what he learns will inform his future. How did past warriors from the Order of Purity who wore the Suit of Sorrows handle their spiral into madness? And how did the agent of the Order of St. Dumas handle these rogue madmen?









> *BATGIRL #8
> On sale MARCH 10 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by BRYAN Q. MILLER • Art by LEE GARBETT & TREVOR SCOTT
> Cover by PHIL NOTO*
> The RED ROBIN crossover begins here! When Tim Drake returns to Gotham City, the last person he expects to find in the Batcave is Stephanie Brown. But when Ra’s al Ghul attacks on Batman’s closest allies, Red Robin and Batgirl will have to put the past aside to save Leslie Thompkins’s life. Continued in Red Robin #10!










> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #10
> On sale MARCH 31 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by PAUL DINI
> Art and cover by GUILLEM MARCH*
> Is The Riddler friend or foe? One thing’s for sure – he definitely isn’t making life easy for Catwoman, Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn!









> *RED ROBIN #10
> On sale MARCH 10 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by CHRISTOPHER YOST
> Art and cover by MARCUS TO & RAY MCCARTHY*
> The Red Robin/Batgirl crossover continues as Ra’s al Ghul targets everyone in Bruce Wayne’s “family” for death – and only Red Robin and Batgirl can stop it. Except Batgirl’s not so sure about Tim these days...especially once he starts working with one of Ra’s’ own assassins. Plus, Ra’s al Ghul vs. Hush! Vicki Vale vs. Alfred! And Tam Fox continues her search only to run into even more trouble. Continued from this month’s Batgirl #8!


----------



## Bender (Dec 21, 2009)

Well the Bat-family certainly has their hands full


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 21, 2009)

No Cassandra Cain.


----------



## Bender (Dec 21, 2009)

^

You gotta hand it to Damian for mentioning her in the recent Batgirl issue tho  (I didn't buy it btw)


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 22, 2009)

I wish I could write the meeting.


----------



## Bender (Dec 22, 2009)

What pisses me off more is how goddamn incompetent Steph is

I mean wtf she fucking froze Damian.


----------



## Slice (Dec 22, 2009)

Damian and Cassandra, they would be on good terms to each other.



Blaze of Glory said:


> What pisses me off more is how goddamn incompetent Steph is
> 
> I mean wtf she fucking froze Damian.



I still like the book.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm a fan of Stephanie Brown. . .  but the costume still irks me.

Seriously, what did they thought of, when coming up with it?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 22, 2009)

> *BATGIRL #8
> 
> * The RED ROBIN crossover begins here!


Screw you, DC, for having me eventually HAVE to read Batgirl.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Dec 22, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I'm a fan of Stephanie Brown. . .  but the costume still irks me.
> 
> Seriously, what did they thought of, when coming up with it?


I like it, just wish the purple was darker


LIL_M0 said:


> Screw you, DC, for having me eventually HAVE to read Batgirl.



Haters gonna hate


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 22, 2009)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Haters gonna hate


lovers gonna love/
I don't wanna do/
non of the above


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Dec 22, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> lovers gonna love/
> I don't wanna do/
> non of the above



God, I love when I set somebody up for win and they hit it outta the park


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 22, 2009)

Thank you, kind sir.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 22, 2009)

What up mane. 

Nah, I hadn't read BN (or Green Lantern) since issue 3 or 4. I got tired of seeing people in shock and awe from talking zombies. Green Lantern Corps is still awesome though


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 22, 2009)

Read Batgirl. Damien was awesome and the part where Spoiler gets shot in the face. I wasn't concerned enough to read the parts in between.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 23, 2009)

Morrison Bat interview with CBR




> *
> You mentioned "The Return," so let me ask you - will "The Return of Bruce Wayne" mean the end of "Batman and Robin," or will Bruce Wayne's return play out in the other Bat-books, as well?*
> 
> The stories in "Return" and "Batman and Robin" run parallel to one another for six months, and there are a few subtle connections between them, but they don't really link up until the crescendo in "Batman and Robin" #16 which comes out in September 2010, I think. You could easily read both books on their own, but it's more involving to read them together.
> ...



EVEN MORE EXICTED




> *I know you don't want to look too far ahead, but can you talk a little bit about the art we've seen for "The Return of Bruce Wayne?" So far we've seen Bruce the Barbarian and Captain Bruce the Pirate.*
> 
> 
> Those amazing visuals were all Andy Kubert's work. They'd make great toys, wouldn't they? Somebody should get started on that. The League of Historic Batmen. Andy just went to town with the idea of what Batman might look like if he'd developed in these different time periods. How would the bat-equipment work? How would you get the mask effect? Or the effect of a cape? If you look behind the six covers Andy's done – they all join up into one big image – Bruce is mostly wearing sort of conventional period clothes, dictated by the in-story logic. In the first story, Bruce is actually stripped to the waist, as we saw him on the last page of "Final Crisis." All he has is his utility belt. So we don't necessarily get to see him as Bat- Pirate with the flowing beard of dreadlocks and the mask, which genuinely breaks my heart [laughs].



APRIL RIGHT NOW


----------



## mow (Dec 23, 2009)

> "Batman and Robin" #16


.


> "Batman and Robin" #16


.


> "Batman and Robin" #16



.


----------



## Bender (Dec 23, 2009)

LIL_M0 said:


> Read Batgirl. Damien was awesome and the part where Spoiler gets shot in the face. I wasn't concerned enough to read the parts in between.



Spoiler getting shot in the face and Damian threatening to stab her was my favorite part  of the newest issue. 

"Don't worry miss Stephanie I have hidden and locked up all of his weapons." 

"I have other weapons you don't know about Pennyworth"


----------



## Castiel (Dec 23, 2009)

16 huh?  guess this means Quitely is on schedule or they wouldn't be setting any definite numbers.


----------



## Bender (Dec 23, 2009)

^

So what are you implying there sport?


----------



## Taleran (Dec 23, 2009)

The prevailing theory is that Hurt was Darkseid or Dessad inhabiting a body all along and the 3 Batman he made and the experiments were initial tests into creating the Batman army they were trying to make during Final Crisis


----------



## Bender (Dec 23, 2009)

Taleran said:


> The prevailing theory is that Hurt was Darkseid or Dessad inhabiting a body all along and the 3 Batman he made and the experiments were initial tests into creating the Batman army they were trying to make during Final Crisis



No way, Darkeid knew how strong Batman was before the One Year storyline. Remember, when the Trinity traveled to Apokolips to save Supergirl he cleverly managed to Reprogram the Hellspores to self-donate and take a beating from Darkseid. Not to mention Bats survived an ass kicking from superman _twice_.

Here he takes a full-force punch from Superman



Has punched Superman twice and not broken his hand.




Even the comic being Spectre describes him as "the zenith of human fortitude and ambition", while an in canon Superman described him more simply as "the most dangerous man on the planet" 

Not to mention the fact that several high-profile beings (including the above mentioned Specter and Superman) have such high regard for a "mere mortal." Harbringer once refered to him as "the Scourge of all Evil." 

You don't need to set up an entire story arc to measure his strength so you can create an army just ask his enemies/allies.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 23, 2009)

I don't look to Trinity for anything actually going to relate, besides his original goal was probably to use Bruce the same way he eventually used Turpin, but after the events of RIP it was shown that Bruce would resist far too long so they instead went with the Bruce Army and Turpin body


----------



## Bender (Dec 23, 2009)

Taleran said:


> his original goal was probably to use Bruce the same way he eventually used Turpin, but after the events of RIP it was shown that Bruce would resist far too long so they instead went with the Bruce Army and Turpin body



That's kind of stretching it.

Desaad and Mokkari had already sedated him and seemed pretty content with being in Dan Turpin. Plus, it didn't matter which body he was in since no matter which body he was in it' not like he could walk around stomping on everyone and his very presence was threatening the multiverse, as well as time and space.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 23, 2009)

> The prevailing theory is that Hurt was Darkseid or Dessad inhabiting a body all along


bull.  

pretty much everyone and Morrison just say he's the devil and leave it at that.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 23, 2009)

And Darkseid is the God of Evil



Blaze of Glory said:


> That's kind of stretching it.
> 
> Desaad and Mokkari had already sedated him and seemed pretty content with being in Dan Turpin. Plus, it didn't matter which body he was in since no matter which body he was in it' not like he could walk around stomping on everyone and his very presence was threatening the multiverse, as well as time and space.



Clark specifically asks him in FC#7 why he didn't pick Batman, and Darkseid's response is that he would have resisted too long

And I am well aware that it is stretching but we shall have to wait and see (people are tying this together with the 'Batman' body that Dick and Damian are bringing back in B&R)


----------



## Bender (Dec 23, 2009)

Taleran said:


> And Darkseid is the God of Evil



He doesn't know shit about sinning though bro. Plus, I doubt Morrison and co would include a major Supes villain in a Batman story arc. Lastly, Satan/Lucifer is a fallen angel not a god as Doctor Hurt refers himself to. 

At the same time Batman R.I.P. was happening he possessed the mob boss we see in Final Crisis and was in him during the Teen Titans Clock king arc and Seven soldiers. So unless during that time he is capable of being multiple bodies at the same time your argument is null and void.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 23, 2009)

He was in 3 million people in FC 5 and 6, thats also part of the why I said _or Deesad_ as part of it


----------



## Bender (Dec 24, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #7 _ 










lol I'm surprised that Selina doesn't try to claw Damian's eye out for calling her a tramp


----------



## Castiel (Dec 24, 2009)

> And Darkseid is the God of Evil


you're kinda grasping at straws.

also revelations kinda showed that judeo-christian pantheon is not the same as kirby's


----------



## Taleran (Dec 24, 2009)

Its not my theory so I am not grasping at anything


----------



## Bender (Dec 24, 2009)

Taleran said:


> He was in 3 million people in FC 5 and 6, thats also part of the why I said _or Deesad_ as part of it



Then you're wrong once again. Desaad was working in the Darkside club at the time. Also the Anti-life Equation is the reason he was able to be in that many people. The Anti-life equation didn't go wide-spread until Final Crisis #4 so no.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Dec 25, 2009)

Jester


----------



## Taleran (Dec 26, 2009)

Someone else Bruce may find on his Time Travel adventures





for those that haven't read Birth of the Demon its Ra's


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 27, 2009)

*dances a jig, having bought Adam Hughes' Catwoman statue*


----------



## Bender (Dec 27, 2009)

Btw you guy you remember that picture that Dick found at the end of the last arc when Two-face discovers the Batcave? Does that means the writer are canonizing this



just to fuck around with Bruce? I seriously, want them to cannonize that so we can see the look on Dick's face when he finds out that Bruce was secretly a pervert. 


Also they should bring back the fact that Batman used to kill people back then before he recruited Dick.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 27, 2009)

I wouldn't be surprised if Morrison had Dr. Hurt try to do that to Bruce's reputation next.


----------



## Bender (Dec 27, 2009)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Morrison had Dr. Hurt try to do that to Bruce's reputation next.



I hope when Bruce comes back he's even more darker than before.  Also explains to Dick and Tim how perverted as Hurt said he was and dammit I really hope they let it be known that in his early years he used to be a killer.  

I looked that shit up yesterday n' I couldn't believe it. Makes me wonder how Commissioner Gordon never caught him on that shit.  Shoot if that fact is indeed cannon then he's no better than Jason Todd.


----------



## Yōkai (Dec 27, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> dammit I really hope they let it be known that in his early years he used to be a killer.
> 
> I looked that shit up yesterday n' I couldn't believe it. Makes me wonder how Commissioner Gordon never caught him on that shit.  Shoot if that fact is indeed cannon then he's no better than Jason Todd.


The reason they cant make Batman a killer is because then they wouldnt have excuses to stop him from killing most of his rogue's gallery, which is composed of some of the most evil fuckers in comics. 

If they admit Batman has been a killer, it'd make Bruce look like a major moron and d-bag, for not killing irredeemable (but popular) psychotic-mass-murderer punks like the Joker, Two-face or Zsasz, or for bitching at people like Shiva or Jean Paul Valley for killing scum like Abattoir.

Btw, Batman in his first appearence in detective comics no.27 , KILLS the bad guy. (punches him to a toxic vat) even if it was retconned later. Bob Kane probably planned Bats as a "kill when necessary" vigilante from the very beginning.


----------



## Bender (Dec 27, 2009)

Yōkai said:


> The reason they cant make Batman a killer is because then they wouldnt have excuses to stop him from killing most of his rogue's gallery, which is composed of some of the most evil fuckers in comics.
> 
> If they admit Batman has been a killer, it'd make Bruce look like a major moron and d-bag, for not killing irredeemable (but popular) psychotic-mass-murderer punks like the Joker, Two-face or Zsasz, or for bitching at people like Shiva or Jean Paul Valley for killing scum like Abattoir.
> 
> Btw, Batman in his first appearence in detective comics no.27 , KILLS the bad guy. (punches him to a toxic vat) even if it was retconned later. Bob Kane probably planned Bats as a "kill when necessary" vigilante from the very beginning.



So you think they'll never let it be known that Bruce used to kill criminals? I hope they do also I think they might since in Barman: Black Glove arc after being shot by Michael Lane and passing out we see in his memories he was carrying a gun. I don't think was just for Joe Chill but to kill.

The fact that in Final Crisis he used a gun on Darkseid makes you wonder if they'll make that cannon.


----------



## Yōkai (Dec 27, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> So you think they'll never let it be known that Bruce used to kill criminals? I hope they do also I think they might since in Barman: Black Glove arc after being shot by Michael Lane and passing out we see in his memories he was carrying a gun. I don't think was just for Joe Chill but to kill.
> 
> The fact that in Final Crisis he used a gun on Darkseid makes you wonder if they'll make that cannon.


Nah, they'll probably keep the killer Batman for the elseworlds and Frank Miller's stories

Think about it, would it make sense if Batman has had the guts in the past to kill random thugs, but yet he cant kill crazy mofos that have killed hundreds or thousands of innocent people, even hurting & killing people very dear to Batman (like in Joker's case)?

it certainly would be...strange

in that case, Jason Todd would have all the right in the world to be mad at Bruce and beat the crap outta him


----------



## Bender (Dec 27, 2009)

Yōkai said:


> Nah, they'll probably keep the killer Batman for the elseworlds and Frank Miller's stories
> 
> Think about it, would it make sense if Batman has had the guts in the past to kill random thugs, but yet he cant kill crazy mofos that have killed hundreds or thousands of innocent people, even hurting & killing people very dear to Batman (like in Joker's case)?



They could say that he was traumatized by the act of killing or as he said to Jason Todd that "it was too easy" something that can add to his alleged insanity issues. Shoot it'd make sense, think about he's shown that he's willing to kill someone and would have if someone wasn't there to stop him. And when he's confronted about it he doesn't appear that fazed by it just thinking "he's right I can't kill" as he's done it before.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 28, 2009)

Blaze of Glory said:


> The fact that in Final Crisis he used a gun on Darkseid makes you wonder if they'll make that cannon.



that was more a repetition of Themes



> Morrison tends ot repeat his themes, it makes them really easy to identify.
> * In 52, Bruce underwent Thorgul-- a ritual designed to cut out the Batman. The only was to survive was to choose, int he instant before the blades struck, to truly be Bruce Wayne and not Batman.
> * In R.I.P. Dr. Hurt put him through an ordeal designed to destroy the entire Batman persona; the only way to escape was to let go of that persona and choose to be someone else.
> * In "Last Rites" (the psychological interrogation Bruce underwent when they were cloning him) Burce Wayne had to live out a dozens of alternate lives... other ways his life would have gone that did NOT result in his death here. In the end his only way to escape was by choosing to let go of a closely-held tenet of his beliefs-- his refusal to use guns. (He then shot Darkseid once he escaped.)


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 28, 2009)

Not to mention, Final Crisis and Rock of Ages.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 28, 2009)

Arkham Reborn #3 was great.  Damn it I want a Jeremiah Arkham ongoing


----------



## Yōkai (Dec 28, 2009)

Blaze of glory, i cant see your killer Batman pics

fix them and post them in the thread i've just made inspired by this little discussion. they will fit very well there


----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2009)

Here I'm reposting those pics of Bats/Bruce  in his crazy moments




Lady Gaga


----------



## Z (Dec 29, 2009)

and hurtles to his death


----------



## Taleran (Dec 31, 2009)

So was reading RIP again after all the Interviews about the Return of Bruce wayne

Morrison Mentions Puritan Bruce in Gotham Village



Coincidence?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 31, 2009)

Taleran said:


> Coincidence?


So, Bruce Wayne is his own ancestor [/futurama]

Goes to re-read RIP before an epic night at the Hard Rock Cafe.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 1, 2010)

mow said:


> SOMEONE PLEASE POST THIS!



long time coming but


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 3, 2010)




----------



## Z (Jan 3, 2010)

**


----------



## mow (Jan 4, 2010)

glorious xD


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 4, 2010)

Rule 3 is by far the best


----------



## Bender (Jan 5, 2010)

I just had to post this epic moment

I know Guy Gardner is a jack-ass but maaaan I had no idea the bitch would pick a fight with Bats :33 and be taken down with ONE PUNCH.    Bats executed a Bruce Lee one inch punch. 

pissed



With that type of performance I wouldn't be surprised if Tim could take him down.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 5, 2010)

Gotta post this


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Just read the first arc of Batgirl... didn't like it. 

Issue 5 was pretty cool though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 6, 2010)

I love panels of the JLA just being coworkers/colleagues/friends. 

"People will-"
"Beetle laughed, so did miracle. J'onn smiled"
*Super facepalm"

HA!


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 6, 2010)

Like hiding Ollie's arrows.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 6, 2010)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Red Robin!!!


----------



## Taleran (Jan 7, 2010)

That is a good theory goddamn I love how there are so many ways Grant can pull this all together


edit: so I gave Red Robin a go with issue 8 (I know middle of story bad idea) but it was pretty fantastic and really echoed "Everything is in the Preperation"

oh and does anyone else thing Beryl would make an awesome addition to that book? (but fuck I just want a Club of Heroes ongoing)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 7, 2010)

RED ROBIN OWNED MY FACE OFF!!


----------



## Castiel (Jan 7, 2010)

I knew my faith in Yost wouldn't betray me if I waited long enough.


----------



## mow (Jan 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


>



Mind. 

Blown.


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 7, 2010)

Well fuck.  I am impressed.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 7, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> Red Robin!!!



A megabrawl doesn't really work when the art is as uninspired and unmoved as it is in issue #8.

Plus, I still have no idea why any of this matters.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 7, 2010)

I didn't care about the "mega brawl", That was just me being excited about Ras not being dead.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> A megabrawl doesn't really work when the art is as uninspired and unmoved as it is in issue #8.
> 
> Plus, I still have no idea why any of this matters.



The entire issue was basically one statement

"WHY THE FUCK DID JASON TODD EVER EXIST"


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 7, 2010)

Because the world was not yet ready for Drake.  *blink  Uncharted jokes ahoy?


----------



## Taleran (Jan 7, 2010)

Nah I think they wanted to kill a Robin so they had to make a new character who was enough of a Douche


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> A megabrawl doesn't really work when the art is as uninspired and unmoved as it is in issue #8.
> 
> Plus, I still have no idea why any of this matters.



It works when you're a fan of the character, and said character FINALLY starts fighting with his noggin again.

And said character is finally out of the dumps.

Also, it reaffirms my opinion that this book is only getting better. Sadly, To is really holding it down. And not holding it down in the sense of "he's got this shit" but that he is literally holding it down.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 7, 2010)

To's art isn't bad. But it's clear that this book is totally driven by the writing, unlike other books (i.e. Blackest Night, Detective Comics).


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 7, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> To's art isn't bad. But it's clear that this book is totally driven by the writing, unlike other books (i.e. Blackest Night, Detective Comics).



True. Though the fact that imo yost has improved with the writing from the first issues (less flashbacks, better handle on tim as a character), To's mediocrity is more apparent.

On that note, I thought the writing here was really solid. Loved when Ra's called him, "Hey Ra's, anything exciting going on where you are?" and the grapple shot to the face was really sweet.

EDIT: I was a little hard on To. Fact of the matter i do like his art (I mean its my sig, so...), but his action scenes do leave a good bit to be desired, and it seems like some things he just doesn't put enough detail into, like he doesn't give a shit.


----------



## Okkervil River (Jan 7, 2010)

I liked issue #8 a lot more than I liked issue #7, which I kind of thought was the worst of the book so far.  Really like how Yost portrays Tim's deductive intelligence in the middle of fight scenes, and how that and the variety of his training makes him potentially even more dangerous than someone like Dick.  The series is really getting better, and since there was significantly less of it this issue, I'm hoping the annoying time skips are over with.  Overall, I'm enjoying the series--not that I wouldn't be anyway, Tim being my favorite DC character and all--so it's all good.  I do hope Pru shows up again though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 7, 2010)

Also, what with the central plot of the Batgirl/Red Robin crossover being Ra's trying to fuck with the bat family, here's hoping that Cass shows up at all, even if it's just to show Ra's that Cass Cain ain't nothin to fuck with.

/she probably won't though.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 7, 2010)

Getting better?  lol

Thematic and conceptual coherence is still lacking after eight issues, and the book only really begins to make sense if you're willing to suspend disbelief, to the point of compromising your wit.

I think I'm officially done with this book.


----------



## Okkervil River (Jan 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Getting better?  lol
> 
> Thematic and conceptual coherence is still lacking after eight issues, and the book only really begins to make sense if you're willing to suspend disbelief, to the point of compromising your wit.



In other words, it's a superhero comic book?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 7, 2010)

No, not quite.  

It's not even really story; it reads like an absurd piece of special pleading.


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 7, 2010)

7 was so boring that I only read it just now before reading 8, which I really enjoyed.  The art really does hold it back, but the fight scene was well executed in my eyes.  This could have been because I was really focused on the internal monologue boxes than the actual panels.  

I really enjoy how they wrapped up him working with league and well....i guess it's on.


----------



## Okkervil River (Jan 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> No, not quite.
> 
> It's not even really story; it reads like an absurd piece of special pleading.



I won't argue that it doesn't feel forced, because it does, and I won't argue that it's even close to the best Batman Reborn book, because it's not Detective Comics, but I do think it has improved, in general, from the first issue.  Tim's motives for doing what he does have begun to clear up since the opening arc, especially why he's so convinced Bruce is alive, and that mystery is an interesting (if often unaddressed) one.  Plus, Yost seems to have gotten a better handle on the character after this arc, and Tim appears to be coming out of that mire of despair and confusion he was wallowing in throughout the first issues.  So yeah, I think it's improving.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 7, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Nah I think they wanted to kill a Robin so they had to make a new character who was enough of a Douche



him being killed a total surprise.  methinks they just wanted to experiment with a character who was so fundamentally different from Dick Grayson and it bombed


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 7, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 7, 2010)

Tony S. Daniel is my favorite Batman artist ever.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 7, 2010)

Taleran said:


> oh and does anyone else thing Beryl would make an awesome addition to that book? (but fuck I just want a Club of Heroes ongoing)



either her or Cassandra would make my day


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 7, 2010)

Cass would fit better seeing as how she's an assassin leader (kinda).


----------



## Okkervil River (Jan 7, 2010)

I liked that crossover they did between Robin and Batgirl before Infinite Crisis, so that could be cool.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 8, 2010)

And then Johns removed Bludhaven from the face of the New Earth. . .


----------



## Castiel (Jan 8, 2010)

JHW3's last issue of 'tec


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 8, 2010)

JH Williams III is pretty much my favourite comic artist. Has been since I first read Promethea.

That man is a visionary.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 8, 2010)

Him and Frank Quitely are in a never ending war for top spot


----------



## Castiel (Jan 8, 2010)

also fighting over who can draw the least in the longest amount of time.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 8, 2010)

Well. . . one makes deadlines. . .


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 8, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> JHW3's last issue of 'tec



Thought he was coming back after Jock?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 8, 2010)

Meant his last one for now


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 8, 2010)

Excellemt [/C. Montgomery Burns]


----------



## Taleran (Jan 10, 2010)

> *Grant:* There is a plan, but I can’t talk about it yet. I was always going to move on after 12 issues of “Batman and Robin,” then it went to 16 and I figured that was it, I’d told my story. I figured once Bruce came back, it would go back to the traditional Batman status quo, which is kind of where I came in. But then I had an idea that seemed to me a really exciting way to continue the story in a new direction, so I’m going to stay on for that. It’s a different take on Batman and Robin, but I don’t want to say too much until nearer the time. We still have all kinds of twists and turns and shocks to get through before any of that.



I love how his interviews aren't just out of left field, I wonder if we will get a Mentor role for bruce (ala Beyond or DKR)


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 10, 2010)

I can't wait when R.I.P. is Absolute'd.

What? You think DC isn't going to do that because it's already been Deluxe'd? Psh.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 10, 2010)

came across this image and man if most of the choices don't make tons of sense


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> came across this image and man if most of the choices don't make tons of sense



Lucius Fox as the All State guy? Looks like Wayne Corp is in good hands.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 10, 2010)

Lil_m0 keeping it classy


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> came across this image



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGjUyu9c8Ng[/YOUTUBE]

I fucking rest my case.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 10, 2010)

Chocolate is great. Though I could never finish the movie. I always get interrupted by someone or something more important.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 10, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> Lucius Fox as the All State guy? Looks like Wayne Corp is in good hands.



 there seems to be no youtube video for David Palmer's death


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 11, 2010)

Bryan Cranston could definitely be an awesome gordon. Although Gary Oldman's got that role on lockdown.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 11, 2010)

That's All State's Wayne Corps' stand. Are you in good hands?


----------



## Taleran (Jan 11, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Bryan Cranston could definitely be an awesome gordon. Although Gary Oldman's got that role on lockdown.



Yeah but I'm pretty sure that list is for when Nolan finally leaves so other people are able to take a swing at Batman


----------



## lucky (Jan 11, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> Lucius Fox as the All State guy? Looks like Wayne Corp is in good hands.




oh no no no.... Angelina Jolie as Catwoman, and a slightly younger Monica Bellucci as Talia al ghul.  She'll play the sultry seductress part of catwoman well.


Monica bellucci is classy and positively magnificent.

fantastically-fucking-beautiful.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 11, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> That's All State's Wayne Corps' stand. Are you in good hands?



have you seriously not seen 24 m0?

David Palmer was probbaly the first fictional Black President to not fuck things up royally

fun fact, right after he got sniped and killed of for real, the first commercial to air was one for All-State


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 11, 2010)

I really don't want angelina jolie to be catwoman. To me it would just be angelina jolie as angelina jolie, which wouldn't be as appealing to me as someone less known so i'd see them as the character first and the actress second.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 11, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> have you seriously not seen 24 m0?
> 
> David Palmer was probbaly the first fictional Black President to not fuck things up royally
> 
> fun fact, right after he got sniped and killed of for real, the first commercial to air was one for All-State



Let's keep it real, son.

Sherry Palmer aka Terror Fabulous is the one holdin' it down.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 11, 2010)

yes but his administration was devoid of publicly telling everyone they're all going to die and going into a bunker or you know overall chris rock shenanigans


----------



## mow (Jan 12, 2010)

lucky said:


> oh no no no.... Angelina Jolie as Catwoman, and a slightly younger Monica Bellucci as Talia al ghul.  She'll play the sultry seductress part of catwoman well.
> 
> 
> Monica bellucci is classy and positively magnificent.
> ...



lucky knows his shi'.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 12, 2010)

yeah but she's getting too old to belieavably play Selina


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 12, 2010)

lucky said:


> oh no no no.... Angelina Jolie as Catwoman, and a slightly younger Monica Bellucci as Talia al ghul.  She'll play the sultry seductress part of catwoman well.
> 
> 
> Monica bellucci is classy and positively magnificent.
> ...



Dude. You already know how I feel about the Talia Al Ghul; issue. No one but Monica Belluci must be allowed to  play her... Ever. 

Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World


----------



## mow (Jan 12, 2010)

nametwin is win.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 12, 2010)

Yes.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jan 12, 2010)

Taleran post that Batman dream cast thingy in hear yet? Twas raw


----------



## Taleran (Jan 12, 2010)

Great Cover

or


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 12, 2010)

I...had no reaction.  Strange.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 13, 2010)

give it time to sink in


----------



## Castiel (Jan 13, 2010)

a sneak peak at Jog's art in 'tec


----------



## typhoon72 (Jan 13, 2010)

New issue was pretty good


*Spoiler*: __ 



Batman is a false face???


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 14, 2010)

This current arc of Batgirl has been a very fun read, but once the "Damian factor" is removed, so will my interest in this book.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 14, 2010)

So Batgirl if mentioning "Devil's Square" and not Batman mentions "Devil's Square"... Just a rough neighborhood or will this be the grounds for something much, much bigger? Like the Fall of the Black Mask...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 15, 2010)

Am currently thinking about buying a Batgirl/Stephanie Brown trade. But still maybe.


----------



## Slice (Jan 16, 2010)

Damian keeps stealing Stephanie the show.

Not complaining about it but i have worries for the future of this book.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 16, 2010)

Batgirl will need a consistent cast outside of those known, if the book is going to still be afloat.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 16, 2010)

Scrap it and do a Club of Heroes ongoing


----------



## Taleran (Jan 19, 2010)

Interesting Rucka is off main feature of Detective for an Arkham Story with Black Mask


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 19, 2010)

Batwoman is collected in a Deluxe edition.

Hmm. Think will wait for softcover to see if it has equal, less, or more page counts before deciding.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 19, 2010)

> BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD #16
> On sale APRIL 28 • 32 pg, FC, $2.50 US
> Written by LANDRY WALKER
> Art and cover by ERIC JONES
> It’s our egg-splosive Easter egg-stravaganza! When the evil Egghead teams up with the eerie Egg-Fu, it’s up to Batman and Wonder Woman to put a stop to their eggs-tracurricular plans before the world is egg-stinct! And that’s no yolk!


----------



## Castiel (Jan 19, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Interesting Rucka is off main feature of Detective for an Arkham Story with Black Mask



this makes me very, very happy. if Hine/Haun's Jeremiah Arkham storyline had ended in Reborn i would have been pissed.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 20, 2010)

Batman and Robin #7 cover



oh god


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 20, 2010)

*rendered speechless*


----------



## Castiel (Jan 20, 2010)

Yost/Miller talk about the upcoming Batgirl/Red Robin crossover


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 20, 2010)

Yost said:
			
		

> And the answer to why Tim believed so certainly that Bruce Wayne was alive.



Nice to see he hasn't forgotten


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 20, 2010)

Ridiculous!


----------



## mow (Jan 21, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Batman and Robin #7 cover
> 
> 
> 
> oh god



jizz in my pants!


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 21, 2010)

don't really see why that cover is a big deal...


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

I'm with Pete.  If anything , this could be a big deal in RR.  I'm missing it.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 21, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Batman and Robin #7 cover
> 
> 
> 
> oh god



Of course. He had to have THAT look on his face when dead.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 21, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Of course. He had to have THAT look on his face when dead.



What look? That's how Quitely draws faces... Remember New X-Men? 




Petes12 said:


> don't really see why that cover is a big deal...



This.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 21, 2010)

I wonder why none of the bad guys ever tried shooting Batman in the face... I mean, seriously. The lower half of his face is totally exposed.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 21, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> What look? That's how Quitely draws faces... Remember New X-Men?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




yeah people who are old / corpses get the same face


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 21, 2010)

Even in death, Batman can't look at peace.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 21, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> I wonder why none of the bad guys ever tried shooting Batman in the face... I mean, seriously. The lower half of his face is totally exposed.



Because he would just catch it with his teeth.


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Because he would just catch it with his teeth.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 21, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Because he would just catch it with his teeth.


I would respond, but instead...
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiGwgXKl7kQ[/YOUTUBE]
... Skip to 1:09. 

**EDIT*
See, Agmaster knows what's up!


----------



## Castiel (Jan 22, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #861 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 22, 2010)

> The inmates of Arkham Asylum have taken over DETECTIVE COMICS in "Beneath the Mask" Part 1 of 2! It's Black Mask verses Jeremiah Arkham for control of the asylum.
> 
> On Sale April 28, 2010


Two months without Katie Kane makes Lil' Mo "something something"...


----------



## lucky (Jan 22, 2010)

y'know, initially i wasn't a fan of quitely's art... it's sooo grown onto me now.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 22, 2010)

honestly can't wait to see his take on the Joker, should be something to remember.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 22, 2010)

Probably the most wrinkled smile I've ever seen, barring Mahnke's Joker.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2010)

caught up with Streets of Gotham

Zsasz is a monster, I mean really a monster.  He's like Michale Vick but much worse.


oh and people, i recommend just skipping 8-9 of Streets of Gotham, by Mike Benson (aka the guy who wrote really shitty Moon Knight stories)

I wonder what Dini is doing to require to many fill ins


----------



## Castiel (Jan 26, 2010)

new interview - 


new preview






*Spoiler*: _Batman and Robin #7 preview_


----------



## Taleran (Jan 26, 2010)

Better Art
Batman and Robin

ME HAPPY


----------



## Castiel (Jan 26, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]kddS-9QDgsc[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]4aDsfmNCi20[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Taleran (Jan 26, 2010)

*Batman And Robin Must Die!*


----------



## Castiel (Jan 26, 2010)

Batman and Robin: Season 2
*dies of joy*

Jonah Hex confirmed 




Morrison loves the Brave and the Bold cartoon


----------



## Taleran (Jan 26, 2010)

> IGN Comics: Throughout your run on Batman and continuing through Batman and Robin right up until now, you've been extremely prolific about adding to Batman's cast and Rogues' Gallery in rapid succession,... here's the bare essentials you need to know about this character." Was that a conscious decision on your part from the get-go?
> 
> Morrison: Totally. I was looking back at the really early Batman stuff because I was curious what it was like when they first brought the Joker on. The guy is hardly in any panels at all, but he's just really compelling. So we tried to do that with Professor Pyg, and it really worked because there was something about that character that was weirdly alive from the moment he first appeared.
> 
> I like the idea that the Joker was never really explained, and then six months later you got another Joker story in 1940 or whatever. They didn't explain his origins or motivations at all. They just kept telling more cool stories and showing more sides of his character. He was built up, developed and refined along the way rather than introduced as a complete package. To me that seems to be the mark of the best villains – they're introduced in a really cool way and then left for the future to play with. Like some future Alan Moore and Brian Bolland will come along one day and tell the origin of Professor Pyg and it will be the best comic ever. [laughs] That's how it should be. We're too used to getting everything up front– the whole background, the details and the scorecard. But I think these characters are stronger when we just get to see them do something great and then they're gone again, leaving us all wanting more. We get to learn a little bit each time. Each new writer or artist gets to add something different and there should be room to do that with any good character.



God he is PERFECT for writing this book


edit: this is for you Pete


> Morrison: It's more specific to Batman, yes. It's more about Batman being who he is, and how the Dark Knight idea expresses itself in different times and places and in ways he's never had to deal with before. Bruce has no memory as the story starts, and it's all about putting him through the most difficult situations where he doesn't know who he is and somehow still has to survive. It's about Bruce literally trying to find his way home. We know he's Batman, but he has no memory and doesn't know his own name. So we're seeing him in action and seeing how he responds to things even when he doesn't know who he is. This story shows how you can never really take his training away from him. So it builds up from the Paleolithic era and kind of puts him all back together again as he moves forward through time.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 26, 2010)

what do you think "Dark Knight" means?  present day?  year oneish/TLH?  obviously can't be the Medieval Days since he puts it after "hard boiled PI"


----------



## Taleran (Jan 26, 2010)

Maybe it means 




I mean the book is called The Dark Knight Returns


----------



## mow (Jan 26, 2010)

Taleran said:


> God he is PERFECT for writing



Yes.

Yes he is.

pek


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 27, 2010)

Taleran said:


> God he is PERFECT for writing this book
> 
> 
> edit: this is for you Pete



Batman can be Batman, I just don't think it's much of a Batman tv show if it doesn't ever feature Mr. Freeze.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 27, 2010)

Morrison said:
			
		

> Like some future Alan Moore and Brian Bolland will come along one day and tell the origin of Professor Pyg and it will be the best comic ever. [laughs] That's how it should be.



Alas, if it was only both the norm and the law for all similarly introduced characters. . .


----------



## lucky (Jan 27, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Batman can be Batman, I just don't think it's much of a Batman tv show if it doesn't ever feature Mr. Freeze.



the mr. Freeze from the batman cartoons and in the earlier comics when the batman cartoons was out... now htat was a compelling mr. freeze.  


the newer mr. freeze appearances is lacking.  i mean they kept nora and all, but he seems more like an emotionally charged and crass villain. i liked him better as cold, calculating and not prone to hissy fits of rage.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 27, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Batman can be Batman, I just don't think it's much of a *Batman* tv show if it *doesn't* ever feature* Mr. Freeze.*




you are silly


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 27, 2010)

You can't just highlight random words and expect me to get what you're saying.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 27, 2010)

You don't think it is a Batman TV Show because it doesn't use a Villain that is linked to Batman even though Batman is in every episode and acts like Batman in every episode and the villain you mentioned wasn't introduced until 20 years after Batman himself was


----------



## Galt (Jan 27, 2010)

Taleran said:


> You don't think it is a Batman TV Show because it doesn't use a Villain that is linked to Batman even though Batman is in every episode and acts like Batman in every episode and the villain you mentioned wasn't introduced until 20 years after Batman himself was



I disagree with what Petes is saying but your misrepresentation of his argument is sillier still.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 27, 2010)

Do we have to go over this again? Not just Mr. Freeze, obviously. It has nothing Batman about it, except Batman himself. I'd equate it to calling Justice League a Batman show. And the personality thing is debatable, he seems more like a parody of Batman to me. I remember Robin blinding a supervillain and Batman making a bad 1 liner about how crime doesnt pay.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 27, 2010)

Batman and Robin #7 - I really ,really want a Knight and Squire book, preferably with Stewart.  Morrison creates a dozen Knight villains and they are as diverse and awesome as batman's villains.

also the british equivalent of Arkham/Blackgate is pure , especially the Queen's Jail Keeper



Detective Comics #861 - Damn the Cutter is just too


----------



## Taleran (Jan 27, 2010)

I like how this is all tying into the Bible of Crime


----------



## Castiel (Jan 27, 2010)

Morons don't know they got the wrong "Twice named daughter of kane" 



but I seriously have to restate wtf is up with the Cutter?  i mean seriously not even Joker or Zsasz do that kind of fucked up shit



I like his design though.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 27, 2010)

hahaha yeah that took my brain a bit to process


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 27, 2010)

As soon as I read that, I stopped reading and went to the motivator site to share teh lulz.

Brb finishing B&R 7


----------



## Taleran (Jan 27, 2010)

Accidentally Switched Speech Bubbles 


oh and I have a new theory

So Everyone and their mother has confirmed that that is Bruce's Body, so I got to thinking Morrison said that Bruce = Batman that the man is a much Batman as Batman is Bruce

so what if with Bruce out of the picture in the past its not a brainless body


*Spoiler*: _after all Bruce had recently built a Back Up personality_ 








Batman = Bruce
Zur En Arrh = Batman - Bruce



oh and I love the references to Castle Revolving


----------



## mow (Jan 28, 2010)

"sod off to Galaxy X, I say."

I LOVE HTIS BOOK


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 28, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Accidentally Switched Speech Bubbles
> 
> 
> oh and I have a new theory
> ...



I really hope your theory is correct. Although an even INSANER Zur En Arrh with increased strength is not someone to be fucked with haha.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jan 28, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> hahaha yeah that took my brain a bit to process



Duuuuuuude talk about mind fuck. I thought they were purposelly try to screw with our heads or something


----------



## Castiel (Jan 28, 2010)

for people who have no fucking idea what any of the British references mean:
Epik High and F(x) at the French concert




also
Link removed


> Page 11: The comment about the Cauldron of Rebirth - clearly referring to the Lazarus Pit - hearkens not only back to Celtic mythology but also Morrison’s Seven Soldiers, where the original Cauldron had been taken to New York and used as the personal resurrection machine for Don Vincenzo. Also in Seven Soldiers, it’s revealed that the Cauldron of Rebirth was a gift from the New Gods to Aurakles - so, like the Omega Effect Bruce is trapped in, the Lazarus Pit is ultimately based on New God technology and magic.


Wow Morrison.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 28, 2010)

DC has never nailed down the precise chemicals put into those things


----------



## Taxman (Jan 28, 2010)

It's nice to come in here and see people discussing and enjoying Batman still

Going to /co/ after this issue was released just to see huge complaints about how Dick called Bruce "brother" instead of "father", and how Dick is now willing to use a lazarus pit when he was adamantly against it in The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul...not to mention the usual Morrison/Anti-Morrison arguments...was utterly off-putting.

Anyway, been enjoying Batman and Robin and can't wait to see what happens next.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 28, 2010)

good questions

that is pretty unreal, which Pearly ties into as the Calculating Criminal aspect 



> When the Black Glove arc came out, featuring the international Batmen taking part in a murder mystery, missed 4th Letter writer Hoatzin wrote up a fantastic take on how each of those Batmen represented a different piece of the whole. In Batman and Robin, I’m starting to think that Morrison is going in the same direction, but this time for the Joker. Each villain is a piece of him.
> 
> Mr. Toad: The daredevil without any qualms of throwing caution to the wind.
> Professor Pyg: The mentally-ill expert at crude science.
> ...



here is the Batman Article 
good questions


----------



## Galt (Jan 28, 2010)

that's pretty awesome.  I wonder if they'll get time to flesh it out further or if the clamors of DICK GRAYSON SUCKS AS BATMAN BRING BRUCE BACK will leave these ideas dead in the water.


----------



## lucky (Jan 28, 2010)

Lord of the Lock said:


> Going to /co/ after this issue was released just to see huge complaints about how Dick called Bruce "brother" instead of "father", and how Dick is now willing to use a lazarus pit when he was adamantly against it in The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul...not to mention the usual Morrison/Anti-Morrison arguments...



i know......


----------



## typhoon72 (Jan 28, 2010)

Man, I thought this issue was gonna be epic based on the cover. I am dissapoint.

but it was okay, I like the end. I always hate Squire though


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 28, 2010)

typhoon72 said:


> I always hate Squire


This.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 28, 2010)

Eh. Squire's grown on me, like Damian.


----------



## Slice (Jan 29, 2010)

Lord of the Lock said:


> *Going to /co/ *after this issue was released just to see huge complaints about how Dick called Bruce "brother" instead of "father", and how Dick is now willing to use a lazarus pit when he was adamantly against it in The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul...*not to mention the usual Morrison/Anti-Morrison arguments*...was utterly off-putting.



Thats why you should never go to /co/ in the first place.

There is simply no argument against Morrison 


But i have to agree on the Lazarus Pit part, in "Resurrection..." we spent an entire issue reading about Dick trying to talk Tim out of using one and now he does so himself.




typhoon72 said:


> Man, I thought this issue was gonna be epic based on the cover. I am dissapoint.
> 
> but it was okay, I like the end. I always hate Squire though



Issue was good, art was way better than Tan's (althought he could use some more details on the faces) and the only thing i dislike about Squire is her costume.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 29, 2010)

Slice said:


> But i have to agree on the Lazarus Pit part, in "Resurrection..." we spent an entire issue reading about Dick trying to talk Tim out of using one and now he does so himself.



Resurrection was also a collaboration


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 29, 2010)

How many Lazarus Pits are there in the world?

Seems to be enough for ANY occasion.

And Ra's Al Ghul is worried. . .


----------



## Castiel (Jan 29, 2010)

> But i have to agree on the Lazarus Pit part, in "Resurrection..." we spent an entire issue reading about Dick trying to talk Tim out of using one and now he does so himself.


Who wrote the issue in question?

anyways Morrison was involved the project so expect some sort of explanation.


> How many Lazarus Pits are there in the world?


Bruce spent a few years destroying all the Lazarus Pits.  Right now there are only 2

the one in the temple for Ressurection, and this one in England.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 29, 2010)

If there isn't an explanation... who cares? Different authors write characters differently, its not always going to match up perfectly. Also, it's possible for people to be hypocritical, even the best of people.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 29, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Red Robin #9 preview_


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 29, 2010)

Ramon Bachs got art credit.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 29, 2010)




----------



## LIL_M0 (Jan 29, 2010)




----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 29, 2010)

So. . . Dick is the new Batwoman.


----------



## Taxman (Jan 29, 2010)

> Who wrote the issue in question?



I believe it was Nightwing 139...so Nicieza


----------



## Okkervil River (Feb 3, 2010)

So Red Robin #9 was really, really good.  Digging the new art.

"I think Doctor Mid-Nite took him down."

"I think I could take him."

I loled.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 3, 2010)

Red Robin was great

Yost has really come around in his portrayal of Tim and I just love how yost just immerses himself in the DCU in this book. like how the reason Killer Moth is so paranoid is cause he heard what Hal's team was doing to people in Cry for Justice (he's terrified that they're going to have Atom torture him) and a good portion of the issue is a follow up to Adventure Comics #3


also people confusing Tim for Dr. Mid-Nite


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 3, 2010)

Okkervil River said:


> So Red Robin #9 was really, really good.  Digging the new art.
> 
> "I think Doctor Mid-Nite took him down."
> 
> ...


I lol'd at Tim's response more than that line. "Argh" made me think of Charlie Brown. 

Also: Tim always seems to have a little brown sugar on the side.


----------



## Okkervil River (Feb 3, 2010)

Am I the only one that finds the relationship with Tam terribly contrived though?  If only because it's so generic.  She's basically Zoe only she knows he's Red Robin, and she plays the damsel in distress role a lot more frequently.  Not a trait I'm fond of.  Pru would have been a much more interesting romantic proposition, if such a thing is necessary.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 3, 2010)

Okkervil River said:


> Am I the only one that finds the relationship with Tam terribly contrived though?  If only because it's so generic.  She's basically Zoe only she knows he's Red Robin



Have you ever liked/dated someone just because they reminded you of someone else? I just looked at their relationship from that perspective and it totally made sense. As for Tam liking Tim, well... He's rich.


----------



## Okkervil River (Feb 3, 2010)

The funniest thing would be if she never put together that he was in anyway related to Batman or Robin and she just thought he was some crazy, rich, ninja kid who liked to dress up funny.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 3, 2010)

^


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 3, 2010)

Okkervil River said:


> Am I the only one that finds the relationship with Tam terribly contrived though?  If only because it's so generic.  She's basically Zoe only she knows he's Red Robin, and she plays the damsel in distress role a lot more frequently.  Not a trait I'm fond of.  Pru would have been a much more interesting romantic proposition, if such a thing is necessary.



meh, not like no one's ever slept with each other for their looks and nothing else.


----------



## Okkervil River (Feb 3, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> meh, not like no one's ever slept with each other for their looks and nothing else.



That's not really an appropriate description of what's going on or what I was getting at, but yeah, Tim pimping it with another new character is certainly no surprise.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 4, 2010)

So far all I've seen is them going 'oooh she/he is pretty/cute'. 

I mean, obviously it's building to a relationship, but it's still kinda believable as a pretty shallow one. you know, beyond the fact that the girl is insane for sticking around with ninjas after she nearly died, or something.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 4, 2010)

Holy shit i just came all over the place. I don't even care if that's gay.

Red Robin 9 took my expectations and tossed them into the sun, then blinded me with awesome.

Humorous/Happy/Snarky Tim? Check
Humorous Tam? Check (I love her perspective on Tim's activities)
More Conner with awesome zingers? Check
Bromance? Check (J.D. and Turk would approve)
Ra's awesomeness? Check (Loved how he called Tim "Detective")
Improved Art? Check (Although steph looked a little weird)

And while i find Tam to be a bit more sassy and sarcastic than Zoey, I definitely agree that Tam shouldn't find out he's connected to batman for a bit more. I love how she just thinks Tim is some crazy ninja assassin kid.

I'm so looking forward to when he reveals his intel on bruce though.

"Bruce is alive"
"Tim, we told you, he's gone, we can help you-"
*slaps evidence down onto table*
"You were saying  "
"Oh...so THATS why the whole lazarus thing didn't pan out"
"YOU WHAT!?"


----------



## Taleran (Feb 5, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _RoBW #2 Cover_


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 5, 2010)

WOW!

Adam & Andy have really stepped up their game in the last six or so months.


----------



## Bender (Feb 5, 2010)

Can shit get anymore epic than this?


----------



## Rod (Feb 6, 2010)

Damien's reaction to that would be hilarious.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 6, 2010)

Nice hat there, batman.


----------



## Bender (Feb 6, 2010)

LOL

Bruce looks like Phantom Stranger 









But cooler


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 6, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Can shit get anymore epic than this?



Future Batman.

. . . Oh wait --


----------



## Rod (Feb 8, 2010)

omfg.


*Spoiler*: _B&R #8 Preview_ 



















"The *REAL* Batman"

Because there's only one true Dark Knight.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 8, 2010)

His eyes are YELLOW


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 8, 2010)

Shit. Dick better be ready to use those bat-knucks. I have a feeling Lazarified! Bruce is about to bring some pain.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 8, 2010)

Open this spoiler only if you can take the risk that the AWESOME contained could melt your brain




Bat Symbol is a nice touch


----------



## Bender (Feb 8, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Open this spoiler only if you can take the risk that the AWESOME contained could melt your brain



GO BRUCE! BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS AND DON'T STOP TILL THEY SAY YOUR NAME!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 8, 2010)

Really looking forward to all of these. Although caveman batman might be a little boring.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm most looking forward to the first one because it could explain everything that is going on


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 8, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I'm most looking forward to the first one because it could explain everything that is going on



Yea. I hope the first one is more about what exactly happened to him and how he's going to go about getting back.

Other than that the time period isn't really all that interesting.

EDIT: Is it just me or does that pirate ship actually have a goddamn batman jolly roger on it?


----------



## Bender (Feb 8, 2010)

Hey I got a question you guys. Will it still be possible for Bruce to return even if his body completely destroyed? Or is it necessary for his body to be intact once he escapes the Omega Sanction? If it's destroyed can his consciousness make a body outta thin air?

Also do you guys think they'll be able to bind Bruce long enough for Tim to explain the absence of his conscience?


----------



## Taleran (Feb 8, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _It would be far easier to consider this a dream...but how can I?_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 8, 2010)

Zorro in Arkham, man!


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 9, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Is it just me or does that pirate ship actually have a goddamn batman jolly roger on it?


*It was* and Pirate Bruce looks like he having so much fun! 


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh3lv3ANlCA[/YOUTUBE]​I wonder if he sang this song.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 10, 2010)

Just imagining Kevin Conroy doing it nearly had me die from awesome.


----------



## Rod (Feb 10, 2010)

*Behold, Awesomesauce.*​

*Spoiler*: _ RBW 5&6 _ 







This Dick Tracy Batman looks like gonna be so epic beyond any known words in this planet.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 10, 2010)

All Together now


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 10, 2010)

> Warner Home Video has confirmed the next title in their acclaimed DC Universe Animated Original Movie line of direct-to-video animated features.
> 
> Rumored for months as an upcoming title in the DC Universe Animated Original Movie line, Warner Home Video has confirmed Batman: Under the Red Hood will be the next direct-to-video animated feature installment in the popular home video series. The upcoming animated feature will be the focus of a "first look" featurette included on the Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths Blu-ray and Two-Disc Special Edition DVD home video releases, arriving February 23rd, 2010 from Warner Home Video.
> 
> ...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 10, 2010)

Rod said:


> *Behold, Awesomesauce.*​
> 
> *Spoiler*: _ RBW 5&6 _
> 
> ...



Dick Tracy Batman = mother-fuckin' best detective EVAR.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 10, 2010)

That was confirmed forever ago when Winick finished the script.

Personally I liked Winick's Under The Hood arc, definitely one of his best superhero works (yeah I know that damning with faint praise but I mean it).


edit: I just got that the last bit of the batwing turns into a building in the RoBW #6 cover


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Feb 10, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> That was confirmed forever ago when Winick finished the script.
> 
> Personally I liked Winick's Under The Hood arc, definitely one of his best superhero works (yeah I know that damning with faint praise but I mean it).
> 
> ...



Ah Winnick.

How I hate thee.


----------



## Rod (Feb 10, 2010)

Just read B&R #8

Sounded like a Final Crisis tie-in issue for Batman, it was nice stuff.


*Spoiler*: _Batman is..._ 



one of the clones.

There was never a real Bruce's body in the present times, the real one was sent to the past totally, not duplicated with one dead and another alive in god knows when in the fucking cave times.

As Bruce disappeared to the past, Clark went and saw only the clone body therefore assumed it was his best friend's, so we have all this mess etc.. etc..etc...

In the end, we can conclude Darkseid fooled Clark, or it was just coincidence. 

This is kind of lol, I mean I can picture ppl like Green Arrow joking at Superman for that, it would be funny stuff.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 10, 2010)

Darkseid gets revenge for Superman/Batman by turning their trick back on them.


----------



## Juggernaut (Feb 10, 2010)

I have no clue if all of these have been posted yet, but here they are in one nice little post:













Sorry if they have all been posted before.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 10, 2010)

Game Over! 

<Don't be lame>

<Shh! He's learning.>


----------



## Juggernaut (Feb 10, 2010)

Dammit!

Well, please enjoy larger versions of them.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 10, 2010)

I hadn't seen P.I or Dark Knight.

P.I. Looks awesome!!!


----------



## Bender (Feb 10, 2010)

When will they start the Batman/Return of Bruce Wayne series dammit! 

I want it now!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 10, 2010)

I want a poster for P.I. Batman.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 10, 2010)

I like how they set up Batman & Robin #8


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 10, 2010)

speech bubble guy on Batman and Robin needs to be fired. cmon, two issues in a row man?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 10, 2010)

So anybody read new batgirl? More damian and steph awesomeness, worried how this book will hold up once he's gone, although i suppose we're getting another robin guest starring so we'll be good for at least two more issues.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 10, 2010)

Batgirl is all about being her own woman, yet the last couple of issues are mostly concerned with Dick and Damien validating her existence.

That's some ol' bullshit.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 10, 2010)

They're just trying to get readers to accept the character as the new Batgirl. Same idea behind Tim getting permission from Dick to become Robin.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 10, 2010)

lol

That makes it worse.


----------



## Bender (Feb 10, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> They're just trying to get readers to accept the character as the new Batgirl. Same idea behind Tim getting permission from Dick to become Robin.



They're doing as good of a job as Dan Didio does at writing. And I'm sure we all know how *good* he is at that.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 11, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> lol
> 
> That makes it worse.



I don't really get why. What's it matter?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 11, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> lol
> 
> That makes it worse.



Honestly I don't blame that completely on the writers,some of that is on comic book fans.  If Babs hates steph, a large portion of her fanbase (which are a large number of people who'd read a batgirl book) will follow suite.

The opposite is also true.

Like petes said, its exactly what they did with Tim, because they were worried there would be a backlash against him, so they figured having Dick ok him would deter that.

And I really don't think the writing is all that bad, unless you're looking for something deep and engaging, as opposed to just something fun that will give you a laugh or two.


----------



## Rod (Feb 11, 2010)

"Fatgirl"


Gold.


----------



## Bender (Feb 11, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Darkseid gets revenge for Superman/Batman by turning their trick back on them.



Lol and before he dies Darksy pulls out one last trick. Nicely done Darkseid. Nicely done.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> lol
> 
> That makes it worse.



_*NO ONE*_ operates in Gotham without the Batman's blessing.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2010)

> *BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #1-2
> Issue #1 on sale MAY 12 ? Issue #2 on sale MAY 26 ? 48 pg (#1), 40 pg (#2) FC, $3.99 US
> Written by GRANT MORRISON ? Issue #1 art by CHRIS SPROUSE; Issue #2 art by FRAZER IRVING
> Covers by ANDY KUBERT ? Issue #1 1:25 variant cover by CHRIS SPROUSE
> ...









> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #12
> On sale MAY 5 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> Art by ANDY CLARKE & SCOTT HANNA
> ...









> *BATMAN #699
> On sale MAY 12 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by TONY DANIEL
> Art by GUILLEM MARCH
> ...









> *DETECTIVE COMICS #865
> On sale MAY 26 ? 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by DAVID HINE
> Co-feature written by GREG RUCKA
> ...









> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #12
> On sale MAY 19 ? 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by PAUL DINI
> Co-feature written by MARC ANDREYKO
> ...









> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #12
> On sale MAY 26 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by PAUL DINI
> Art and cover by GUILLEM MARCH*
> Poison Ivy?s new job as a research technician may have her working undercover, but that doesn?t mean a new threat to Gotham City will stay secret! Dr. Pamela Isley is spotlighted in this special issue of GOTHAM CITY SIRENS.









> *AZRAEL #8
> On sale MAY 19 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by FABIAN NICIEZA ? Art by RAMON BACHS & JOHN STANISCI
> Cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA*
> Azrael follows a deadly series of attacks on Order of Purity members to Europe where he confronts members of a cult who escaped Gotham City in the 2009 Bat-family Annuals. To learn secrets behind his cursed uniform, will Azrael be forced to act as the host for the resurrected Eighth Deadly Sin of Man?









> *BATGIRL #10
> On sale MAY 12 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by BRYAN Q. MILLER ? Art by LEE GARBETT & TREVOR SCOTT
> Cover by STANLEY ?ARTGERM? LAU*
> In ?The Flood? part 2 of 4, the Calculator plans to exact his revenge on Oracle by first unleashing a nanovirus upon the citizens of Gotham City that will turn them into mindless techno-zombies! The next step in his plan? Killing everyone close to her ? including Batgirl!









> *RED ROBIN #12
> On sale MAY 5 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by CHRISTOPHER YOST
> Art and cover by MARCUS TO & RAY MCCARTHY*
> Every single moment of the last year has led to this fight between Red Robin and Ra?s al Ghul. Who has Ra?s been talking to all this time in the shadows? Why was Lucius Fox so desperate to find Tim Drake? And why was Tim so certain that Bruce Wayne is alive in issue #1? All questions are answered.









> *BIRDS OF PREY #1
> On sale MAY 19 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by GAIL SIMONE ? Art and cover by ED BENES ? 1:25 Variant cover by CLIFF CHIANG*
> Soaring out of BRIGHTEST DAY, the Birds are back in town! Because you demanded it, fan-favorites Gail Simone (WONDER WOMAN, SECRET SIX) and Ed Benes (JUSTICE LEAGUE, GREEN LANTERN) reunite to reinvent the book where they made their explosive debut as a team. Oracle, Black Canary, Huntress and Lady Blackhawk all return to Gotham City where they belong ? and they?ve brought a couple of new friends (or are they foes?) along with them!
> ...


----------



## Rod (Feb 11, 2010)

All the core issues look quite interesting tbh.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 11, 2010)

The cover to BR looks horrid.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 11, 2010)

Woah. Batman and Red Robin look sick as all hell.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 11, 2010)

Fuck Yes Irving on Issue #2

I wonder about the remaining issues


Just saw this posted Dream picks



> Caveman: Chris Sprouse
> Witch Hunter: Frazer Irving
> Pirate: Doug Mahnke
> Cowboy: Darwyn Cooke
> ...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 11, 2010)

Am i the only one who thinks that the cover for B&R looks really really odd?

Grayson looks like an old man.


----------



## Rod (Feb 11, 2010)

It's on purpose, may be as well nutjob batman


(699 too)


----------



## Slice (Feb 11, 2010)

I never thought that this day could come

but i dont like the Quitely cover to B&R


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 11, 2010)

Yea, same here.

I suppose i can't completely judge it until i can do so in the context of the issue, but for now its just weird...bad weird.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2010)

Hine interview on the finale of his Arkham story.


----------



## Bender (Feb 11, 2010)

I gotta say I'm pumped up about Red Robin #12


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 11, 2010)

Slice said:


> I never thought that this day could come
> 
> but i dont like the Quitely cover to B&R



Yeah, I saw that cover and laughed so hard. 


> All is revealed in this final installment of “Batman vs. Robin”


So. No Joker arc? 



































FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...


----------



## lucky (Feb 11, 2010)

hey did i miss what happend with zsasz?  last i rmember, they were going after him.  da hell?  what's the last issue of the zsasz arc?


----------



## Taleran (Feb 11, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> Yeah, I saw that cover and laughed so hard. So. No Joker arc?
> 
> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...




Batman vs. Robin =/= Batman & Robin

learn to read m0


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 11, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> _*NO ONE*_ operates in Gotham without the Batman's blessing.



That's some ol' bullshit.

Babs has been runnin' this game for ages.  She doesn't need permission from anyone to do anything, especially not from someone from her own generation of superhero.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 11, 2010)

I thought the series was supposed to end at issue 12. 


ghstwrld said:


> That's some ol' bullshit.
> 
> Babs has been runnin' this game for ages.  She doesn't need permission from someone from her own generation of superhero to do anything.



So true. She even told Superman to fuck off.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 11, 2010)

It been extended 13 for First Season, 13+ for Second Season

who knows how long


----------



## Castiel (Feb 12, 2010)

Babs' is Gordon's neice/daughter, grandfathered in 

But seriously every single other vigilante has had to be vetted by the big Bat.  Hell they even had to do that with Kane (that's essentially what the "there are 13 covens" scene was).

The guy basically has a racket on Gotham you don't run it by him?  BOOM broken legs.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 12, 2010)

Dick Grayson doesn't run shit.  

Anyway, these are pretty lame excuses for sacrificing the story to manipulate the audience into liking Batgirl more than she deserves.


----------



## Rod (Feb 12, 2010)

Babs as Batgirl is prolly not the best example tho, Bruce was reluctant and not very fond of her abilities and what were her motivations, he alerted various times, and see... That history ended up in tears.

Babs as Oracle yes, that's a persona he supports.

It's not that he's arrogant, it certainly sounds like it, but that's due he being the unique in his level of abilities, what makes him afraid that other ppl might not have what it takes and end up harmed.

He vetoed Clark in No man's land what was prolly the time the city needed even more help from outside, later he even denied the whole lot of JLA friends, see he closes the door even to superpowered mofos when he wishes.

 From these superpowered, Green Lantern is the unique I can think that does not need permission, but that's because he was there before Bruce anyways.

Just wait when Bruce returns, I'm pretty sure he'll not like this idea of Steph and she will have to step down asap. for Cass to be in this cowl again, simply because he is more fond of her abilities, and is closer to him.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 12, 2010)

I can't wait for noir Bruce Wayne. . .


----------



## Bender (Feb 12, 2010)

I find it funny how DC wants to make us love Steph even though she's about as much of a punching bag in her own comic as Meg is in Family Guy.


----------



## shit (Feb 13, 2010)

I liked her better dead.


----------



## Bender (Feb 13, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> I liked her better dead.



Yeah, it made Tim angst and look like a total monster when he was kicking Nightwing's ass talking about his problems.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 13, 2010)

Blondie said:


> I can't wait for noir Bruce Wayne. . .



Same here.

Noir and Batman have always been good together.



Blaze of Glory said:


> I gotta say I'm pumped up about Red Robin #12



ME TOO!!! 

Hopefully Tim comes up with some epic strategy to beat Ra's


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 15, 2010)

Maybe he'll call Damian and Talia for help.

. . . Eh.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2010)

Blondie said:


> Maybe he'll call Damian and Talia for help.
> 
> . . . Eh.



Batman and Robin will eventually come to help him out, and if Ra's sics some real heavy hitters on him I can see him calling in superboy, but thats probably just me reading too much into superboy's comments to RR to yell if he needed him.

The idea of Ra's siccing some real heavy hitters on Tim and Tim calling in Conner to deal with that while he takes on Ra's just seems awesome to me ha.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 15, 2010)

> Amy: Oh man, it’s so good to see Damian again. With all the cool stuff going on I hadn’t noticed how much I was missing him, but all it took was a ‘Pennyworth.’ to remind me. When people describe Batman & Robin as a ‘team book’, part of me can’t help wondering why the pre-existing Batman title was never described in those terms, and I think I know. No, it wasn’t simply that editorial wanted the writers to showcase the titular character, it was because Tim Drake lacked personality. He was the literal equivalent of a bat-sidecar - an addendum, an adjunct, without half the integrity of Damian. Damian is a compelling story unto himself, quite apart from his father or Dick, and Tim isn’t.
> 
> Or at least that’s my theory.
> 
> That some people hate Damian so much is further evidence of this. Damian has a personality and that means you may or may not get on with him.



and rage in 1 2 3 4


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 15, 2010)

He has a personality, but he doesn't clash with Batman the way Damian does. Writers didnt exactly play tim and bruce off each other much.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 15, 2010)

Tim was just Bruce++ with less experience.  They really had nothing to clash on aside from levels of angst.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2010)

Taleran said:


> and rage in 1 2 3 4



Well let's just get this out of the way.



Now that that's done with. Who the hell is this person? 

Does anybody else find it amusing that a character who lacked personality, was the literal equivalent of a bat-sidecar, an addendum, an adjunct, without half the integrity of Damian....managed to have his own ongoing for oh, i don't know...about *17 FREAKING YEARS? *

And counting! 

That art must have been too amazing for words .



Agmaster said:


> Tim was just Bruce++ with less experience.  They really had nothing to clash on aside from levels of angst.


Pretty much.

The only times Bruce got frustrated with Tim was when Tim had trouble with keeping things from his family. And even then Bruce had to give him some measure of slack there since Tim was right in that Bruce didn't know what it was like to keep stuff like that from family.

It surprises me that somebody would miss the fact that the reason Batman and Robin weren't highlighted as a team was because they didn't need to be joined at the hip. Robin could operate solo when he wasn't needed by batman, which worked out better for everyone.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 15, 2010)

Agmaster said:


> Tim was just Bruce++ with less experience.  They really had nothing to clash on aside from levels of angst.



which is exactly why I agree with what is said, the character of Robin hasn't been as fresh as he is right now in forever


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 15, 2010)

I would say he has been fresh this entire time.  Just not fresh beside batman as was earlier stated.  Which had more to do with him being a full character unto himself rather than a sidekick.  He grew out of his original role.  I will concede that Damian is a better _sidekick._


----------



## Taleran (Feb 15, 2010)

I wonder where Tim is in the future of #666

oh and for WW the person who wrote that is part of a group of people who do among other things annotations


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2010)

Taleran said:


> which is exactly why I agree with what is said, the character of Robin hasn't been as fresh as he is right now in forever



Do you really agree with her opinion of Tim? Because the bulk of what she said about his character was flat out retarded. The reason the Dick/Damian dynamic is better than the Bruce/Tim dynamic is because Morrison is a good writer and the two character play off each other incredibly well.

With bruce and tim they were just too similar. Also, during a sizable part of Tim's run as Robin DC wanted to keep Batman and Robin more separated than they had been in the past, in an attempt to make Batman more gritty and dark.



Taleran said:


> I wonder where Tim is in the future of #666
> 
> oh and for WW the person who wrote that is part of a group of people who do among other things annotations



Dunno. Killed by Ra's Al Ghul!?!?!? OH NOES 

ha yea, I googled. I'm not really that angry about it, its just weird how the way she words its like the only possible reason the batman/robin dynamic wasn't as interesting as it is now must be because tim's a boring character, which isn't the case at all.



Agmaster said:


> I would say he has been fresh this entire time.  Just not fresh beside batman as was earlier stated.  Which had more to do with him being a full character unto himself rather than a sidekick.  He grew out of his original role.  I will concede that Damian is a better _sidekick._



Yup. Dixon basically made Tim Drake the DCU's version of Ultimate Spider-Man (before ultimate spiderman existed ha).

Tim Drake wasn't really a sidekick for most of his run, more of a less experienced partner (if that makes sense), not an outright subordinate/student.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 15, 2010)

I've read 2 issues of Red Robin and that is about it. A Robin solo book has never interested me


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 15, 2010)

Ok, that shows YOU don't like it.  It doesn't downright confirm the lack of quality behind the character.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I've read 2 issues of Red Robin and that is about it. A Robin solo book has never interested me



Well up until the last 2 issues, Red Robin was straight trash, and that's coming from a pretty big Tim Drake fan.

The original Robin solo book was solid, especially dixon's lengthy run, which reads a lot like batman mixed with ultimate spider-man.

I know i said that before, but its the most apt description I can think of.



Agmaster said:


> Ok, that shows YOU don't like it.  It doesn't downright confirm the lack of quality behind the character.



Depending on the issues the only thing not liking red robin shows is that you don't like shitty comics.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 15, 2010)

Thats not entirly true I liked him in the Batman of Many Nations story


----------



## Rod (Feb 15, 2010)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2010)

What issue/arc is that from? I'm guessing its Batman after War Games?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Feb 15, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SmmR_pbzMg[/YOUTUBE]​


----------



## Rod (Feb 15, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> What issue/arc is that from? I'm guessing its Batman after War Games?



Robin #136


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 16, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I've read 2 issues of Red Robin and that is about it. A Robin solo book has never interested me



Yeah but you like Brave and the Bold a lot.

and dislike the entire Ultimate line.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 16, 2010)

Rod said:


> Robin #136



Huh, guess it really has been awhile since I've read the old Robin series.

But yea, I've always thought that Tim had the potential to surpass bats mentally, at least as far as detective skill and science are concerned, although i don't see anyone becoming the ridiculous prep-god that Bruce is.


----------



## Rod (Feb 16, 2010)

The way I see it, to me DC want us to interpret Tim and Richard as sides of a coin, I mean, usually Grayson is praised as someone who exceeds in physical abilities, he is like an extreme athlete in potential with a very rare talent for that, while Drake is usually portrayed as someone praised by his detective/logical skills etc... It's liek kind of body/mind depiction in the end.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 16, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Yeah but you like Brave and the Bold a lot.
> 
> and dislike the entire Ultimate line.



what is the point of this post? Common knowledge?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 16, 2010)

Tony Daniel interview


----------



## Rod (Feb 16, 2010)

Anyways, I wonder if anyone has even tried to tie things comparing with the Rokudo-Rinne: Six paths of transmigration? 

I'm well too lazy to cut for all the references, but I'm more than certain they're there, this six fingered gloves, Bruce reincarnating six times, It'd all explain Nanda Pardut from a new point of view and the meaning of it.

just for the record, if put in order:

Hell = Caveman Bruce
Hungry Ghost = Hunter Bruce
Animal = Pirate Bruce
Asura = Old Western Bruce
Human = Dick Tracy Bruce
Deva = Dark Knight Bruce


In this case, then figure that Hurt's identity is nonetheless: Thomas Wayne... and also Joker... and also Mangroove Pierce... and also Darkseid and also anyone you think. How? 

He is everyone but he is also noone, got it? 

He is simply the devil/demon that controls the Samsara wheel of transmigration (That same entity also happens to rule Naraka the Buddhist hell, see?) and is here to put the ultimate test in Bruce Wayne.

However, it happens that Wayne fooled the devil, how? 

In order to escape the wheel of transmigration, one needs to achieve final enlightment, true wisdom. 

GM stated we will see how Bruce left things from the past for him in the future to understand the situation, IMO the whole Nanda Parbat period was then a preparation for Bruce to face his reincarnations, he discovered during the investigation his own messages from the past and noticed the necessity for the period of ostracism in Nanda Parbat, he then took initiation in his preparations for his destiny, he starts the Thogal, in order to escape what was comming, Wayne choose not to share information because his family would suspect of his sanity, that's why they all were in the dark in that matter and thought Bruce was turning into a different man with that situation anyways.

After the Thogal, it's enjoyable to see the cleverness of Wayne's plan. Bruce may even face amnesia, but there he was inteligent, he prepared himself for that, engraving Batman in the very instincts of his body, and that can't be taken. 

He knew what he was going to pass by, then in the very reality he wasn't acting out of character in front of Darkseid as ppl assumed, it was all a plan since the very beginning. 

The Rokudo-Rinne Devil thought it was an inescapable masterpiece, but got fooled by Bruce Wayne, afterall: _"Don't you know there's a hole in everything?"

"Gotcha"_


----------



## Taleran (Feb 16, 2010)

Hot Damn , you got the order mixed up it goes Hungry Ghost, then Animal


----------



## Rod (Feb 16, 2010)

Fixing for the justice


----------



## Taleran (Feb 16, 2010)

Oh and I just noticed if you look on the the Covers there are less other people on each Cover over the last one


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 16, 2010)

Morrison is usually that crazy.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 17, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman and Robin #9 preview_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 17, 2010)

I wonder if the word balloons will ALL be correct this time. . .


----------



## Bender (Feb 17, 2010)

^

They were wrong?

Damn can't believe I didn't notice it......DC has been kinda sloppy grammar wise and word balloon. 

Also regarding Batman #697 

It's an incredibly obvious fact by now that the new Black Mask is.....................................................................................
...............


*Drum rolls*






































*Spoiler*: __ 




Jeremiah Arkham


----------



## Rod (Feb 23, 2010)

Okay time for the fully developed theory:

*Batman and the Six Paths.*
​
Clicks something?

Allow me to remind you then:

The concept is just much bigger, have a  sit thar, here comes the wall o' text.

*1. Who is this?*



k.

Depicted in Batman 681, Yama, the buddhist devil, guardian of the hell. The one who turns the wheel of life, Six Paths, Rokudo Rinne. (picture two pics above)

Additionally, when Bruce was failing for black glove as they were invading the cave, an image appeared in the computer:



Seems to have a similar estructure of mandible (notice this one was drawn in a previous issue [677] before clear photo as above), based of perhaps;

Now to this:

*2. "Five fingers, and no more!"*



_"five fingers and no more!"_ 

?

Well imo, this might be refering to a very interesting point here, in the buddhism and hindu figures, entities some of them are portrayed as having 6 fingers, once occurance of this in someone, it  might be believed that individual may be one godlike figure.

Generally there's no distinction of good and evil per se, but what you get for that is the ones who protects the ppl, the good fortune entities are the ones with six fingers, the ones related to punishments or stuff generally have five fingers only.

Yama has five fingers only, for example entities from the hell usually have.

Still I wanted to explain you this, pay very attention:

*Enlightenment:*

*"Enlightenment" is the central masterpiece of Gautama Buddha, and it is what he got sitting for 7 weeks under a fig tree (the bodhi tree), near Benares, after having wandered around for 7 years to search for the cause of suffering... all of a sudden, "in a flash", "he saw the light", and became the Buddha, the enlightened one... his divine eye was quickened, and he was able at last to extinguish all his ignorance, desires, and craving... and life's problems were no longer an enigma to him.

    The Buddhist word for enlightenment is "bodhi," which is the basis for the title "Buddha." He was the first to be enlightened and thus was called "The Buddha." The root meaning of bodhi is "to awaken"; thus the Buddha is the "Awakened One." The rest of humanity is asleep.

    Enlightenment comes essentially one step before nirvana. It is the realizing of the true nature of the cosmos, the link between samsara (six paths)  and nirvana. It is at this point that one can view their past lives. 

7 weeks reminds you something? 7 weeks with 7 days each equals a total of 49 that were Bruce's days.*

Just to explain:

*Nirvana (nibbana):*
_ Nirvana for Gautama is to live the life on earth as the result of the Enlightenment, it is not a place, but a state of mind in which one is released from desire, craving, fear... and, most specially, Nirvana brings a Buddhist out of the cycles of the curse of reincarnation for ever.

    Nirvana has many names in Buddhism and Hinduism Traditions:
    -"Enlightenment"... "Nirvana".- "God-realization".- "Union with the Universal mind".
    - "Heightened awareness".- "Expanded consciousness"- "Altered perception of reality".
    - "Cosmic consciousness".- "Satori"...- "Transcendental bliss"...
    The discipline to obtain it may be yoga, Zen, ascetics, meditation... and the religious frame may be Buddhism, Hinduism, Unity, Theosophy, Scientology, Transcendental Meditation, Hare Krishnas, Rosicrucianism, EST, New Era...

*Results of the Enlightenment in Gautama:*

    He got two kind of results: A positive and a negative:
Negatively, the eradication of all greed, hatred and egotism from his mind.
Positively, the cultivation and development of metta, compassion, sympathetic joy and equanimity as inherent aspects of one’s personality. "Metta" is a Pali word and is usually translated into English as "love", and if we simultaneously think of the words "friendship", "love" and "kindness", we will have some understanding of the true meaning of "metta".

    With this "Enlightenment", Buddha sought to remove much of the supernatural from Hinduism. Hindus worshiped too many gods, and used too many relics, magic prayers, superstitions, candles, incense... and he saw no need for a church institution or authority or priests or rituals; no need to believe in "miracles" or supernatural agencies as means to obtain "nirvana", after the "enlightenment"... he dared to question the authority of the Vedas and advocated abolishing the caste system... and even suggested that the concept of God be abolished...
_

*How to obtain Enlightenment:*

    For Gautama it was very simple, he got it "in a flash" under the Bo tree, as we just mentioned.

    But it is not so simple... the many traditions, sects, branches and denominations follow different special techniques, most of them from  Hinduism... and thousands of Buddhist monks and nuns dedicate their whole life with vows of poverty, celibacy, and obedience to try to obtain it.

* The Four Noble Truths are the basis to obtain Enlightenment*... and most specially Meditation.

 Meditation:

    In general, to obtain "enlightenment", man's own "mind", "body", and "character", are the greatest obstacles: 



    1-The "mind", is suppressed, for example, by repeating thousands of times a "mantra", a meaningless word for the student, until the "crisis" comes, when the mind gets so boring that stops reasoning, letting only the "animal mind" at work; or by trying to solve for months or years a "koan", an impossible riddle, like "what is the size of your right hand's sixth finger?", until the mind gets so tired, that it gives up, stops reasoning; or trying for months a ridiculous impossible astral projection; or looking for hours at a "yantra", a geometric figure, a triangle... yes, you're thinking correctly, in Morrison's Batman context: Zur ehh arr!

    2- The "body", is restrained by sitting for hours in a difficult position, until numbness occurs... and this way you seek to release the spirit from the limitations of the body, say the Buddhists.

    3- The personal "character", is controlled by having a guru or a master that continually humiliates you...

*All, until your mind gives up, becomes obsolete, and your body becomes numb, and you feel yourself like nothing, without self, without any personality... and then, "comes the crisis", you will give up your "human mind" and experience the "animal mind" with all kinds of illusory hallucinations and the bliss of having the joy and peace of an animal, without any reasoning, without any concern of yesterday nor today nor tomorrow nor the after death... just the simple instinctive let it go of any animal... pretty sure you are making already the connections instintively to the Morrison script here.*

*The Four Noble Truths:* Gautama describes temporal life as featuring four noble truths:

        1. Diagnosis: The condition of all existence is suffering.
        2. Cause: Suffering is caused by selfishness, desire and craving
        3. Prognosis: Selfishness, desire and craving can be overcome... and then, suffering ends on earth and the cycle of the curse of reincarnation is gone.
        4. Treatment: The Eightfold Path:

    The Eightfold Path: Enlightenment and Nirvana is attained by meditation and by following the path of righteousness in action, thought, and attitude... it's all your work!:
          1-3- Wisdom (panna):
                - Right View
                - Right Thought
                - Right Speech
          4-5- Morality (sila):  
                - Right Action
                - Right Livelihood 
          6-8- Meditation (samadhi):
                - Right Effort
                - Right Mindfulness
                - Right Contemplation    


    And this is what is called "enlightenment", and "god-realization", and "union with the universal mind", and "heightened awareness", and "cosmic consciousness", and "transcendental bliss"...

    True is not perceived to be an absolute or objective revelation... "knowledge" is not "to know", but "not to know", it is only a "subjective intuitional experience", the thinking has been replaced by feelings; logic plays no part on it, it is the negation of one's rational faculties... it is an "ego" religion, where one's own enlightened self becomes the arbiter of all actions and the gauge of the truth... 

    The light upon which a Buddhist stumbles is the false glow of one whom the Bible depicts as a deceiving "angel of light", Satan (2Cor.11:14)... because in that state on numbness and without the control of the "human mind" the devil settles in.


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## Rod (Feb 23, 2010)

*3. Pretty Flower:*




The Sacred Lotus (“hasu” in Japanese). Early on in Buddhist history, Shaka Nyorai (the Historical Buddha) is pictured seated on a lotus with four petals, representing the four great countries of Asia (India, China, Central Asia, and Iran) of the time. *The lotus, moreover, is a symbol of purity. Although a beautiful flower, the lotus grows out of the mud at the bottom of a pond. The Buddha is an enlightened being who "grew" out of the "mud" of the material world. Like the lotus, the Buddha is beautiful and pure even though he existed in the material world.* The “lotus” seat, moreover, is used very often in sculptures of the various Buddha (Nyorai) and Bosatsu (Bodhisattva), as is the lotus stem with flower, often shown held in the hands of the various deities.
*

4. Six realms of existence, Six paths, Six worlds, Rokudo-Rinne, significance:*

_1- The world of heaven. This is the world of enjoyment, pleasure or pleasant things. The condition of heaven is impermanent, and this state of mind will also change.
    2- The world of humans. (Human beings) In the world of humans, sometimes we are happy, sometimes we are sad, sometimes we are laughing, sometimes we are crying.
    3- The world of asuras. This is the world of fighting, or strife. The realm or state of mind of fighting.
    4- The world of animals. It is the realm lacking reason. The state without reason. Without reason, mistakes are made, causing hardships or suffering to self, and at times others. Without reason, being dominated by one's desires.
    5- The world of hungry spirits. This is the realm of dissatisfaction, not being content. The state of having endless unsatisfied desires, or greed. 
    6- The world of hell. Hell refers to the realm of suffering. The state of suffering and pain, which through cause and condition people will enter._



Connecting, we have:

_  - The world of hell. Hell refers to the realm of suffering. The state of suffering and pain, which through cause and condition people will enter:





 - The world of hungry spirits. This is the realm of dissatisfaction, not being content. The state of having endless unsatisfied desires, or greed: 

_



_- The world of animals. It is the realm lacking reason. The state without reason. Without reason, mistakes are made, causing hardships or suffering to self, and at times others. Without reason, being dominated by one's desires:





    - The world of asuras. This is the world of fighting, or strife. The realm or state of mind of fighting:





    - The world of humans. (Human beings) In the world of humans, sometimes we are happy, sometimes we are sad, sometimes we are laughing, sometimes we are crying:





    - The world of heaven. This is the world of enjoyment, pleasure or pleasant things. The condition of heaven is impermanent, and this state of mind will also change:

_



*Conclusion:*

Morrison: _"I've spent two years in the making of this story!"

"He is like the Buddha"_ 

Sort of hinted the answer not wanting to reveal, fooled us.

Bruce Wayne acts in Morrison's metatext as the figure of Buddha, passing by the final test of Yama the devil who per se has been taunting Wayne the whole life through various occasions and as various figures (the truth of it's identity? It's simple, the great truth is: There's no real one, it's everyone and noone, it's a manifestation), yet it would not kill him before his soul gives up, one needs to acknowledge the corruption in your own, yet that's not the case in the character, Bruce Wayne will prove his faith by achieving the true wisdom on himself (prepared in Thogal with hints from his past times) and escaping the Samsara wheel of life (represented metatextually in the script  as "Omega Sanction").  A fact that historically only the Buddha could do, afterall the devil will be one giving up to finally recognize the contrary of all it has seen: The incorruptibility in this being.    

_"The ultimate human. The definition of humanity."_


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 23, 2010)

So, how long did that take?


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 23, 2010)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rod again."

DAMN IT.

Seriously though, mind blown. I'm probably going to go back and read all of morrisons batman now ha.


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## Bender (Feb 23, 2010)

Rod said:


> *3. Pretty Flower:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is perhaps the most beautiful post I've seen in comics section 


EVER


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## ghstwrld (Feb 23, 2010)

Where are the citations for all of those quotes?


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 23, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Where are the citations for all of those quotes?





Way to not disappoint.


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## Taleran (Feb 23, 2010)

On the one hand there are awesome theories 

On the other hand there is


We all gonna have to wait till april


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## Rod (Feb 23, 2010)

^

Exactly, Bruce lived in a logical world, it was all just a big math for him (see his monologue in front of the Batcomputer in 678 or 679 exemplifies this greatly), that's what he needed to understand, like Gauthama in the enlightenment, it's not simply "to know" it's also "not to know".

He needed to figure ilogical is part of the plan, that was key item missing and what troubled him into Hurt's identity.


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## Bender (Feb 23, 2010)

Bruce better not be a cheery sonofabitch when he comes back


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## Rod (Feb 23, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> So, how long did that take?



The idea comes from some days already, took some hours to fully work in them per sequence, I think 6 - 7 hours in the post time, but there's more that can be improved tho.   



ghstwrld said:


> Where are the citations for all of those quotes?



There's a very good wikipedia style site for hinduism and buddhism that I use generally, I don't remember the exact name but it has a list from A-Z for examples explaining entities and their stories and stuff, it's pretty nice.



Blaze of Glory said:


> This is perhaps the most beautiful post I've seen in comics section
> 
> 
> EVER






Windwaker said:


> "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rod again."
> 
> DAMN IT.
> 
> Seriously though, mind blown. I'm probably going to go back and read all of morrisons batman now ha.



Ty guys!  




Blaze of Glory said:


> Bruce better not be a cheery sonofabitch when he comes back



He'll be back for fully pimpin. 

Hos need thar fix.


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## Bender (Feb 23, 2010)

Rod said:


> He'll be back for fully pimpin.
> 
> Hos need thar fix.



He better see Talia first 

Bruce X Talia shipper

She da first hoe he need to see.


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## Castiel (Feb 23, 2010)

Hey Rod, permission to repost (with you getting big bold credit links of course )





ghstwrld said:


> Where are the citations for all of those quotes?



 classic ghstwrld


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 23, 2010)

Rod said:


> The idea comes from some days already, took some hours to fully work in them per sequence, I think 6 - 7 hours in the post time, but there's more that can be improved tho.



What's your. . . credentials? On this. University course on Buddhism, I presume?

Bravo, nonetheless.


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## Rod (Feb 23, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Hey Rod, permission to repost (with you getting big bold credit links of course )
> 
> classic ghstwrld



Sure it's okay 



Comic Book Guy said:


> What's your. . . credentials? On this. University course on Buddhism, I presume?
> 
> Bravo, nonetheless.



Internet course of Buddhism more likely 

Nah, I've to say, it was about curiosity, I understood jackshit of their culture and "religious" (not exactly classified as religion they are but well dificult to explain now) practises , then reading mangas and understanding nothing of what the author wanted to pass in the symbolysm, like Kishimoto's for example, it really started pissing off my levels of dumbassness in the matter, like Itachi scenes with Tengu at his sides etc... Given a day started studying this stuff and making some time later crazy theories with Jeanne (partner student in this, she has some crazy knowledge, not into comics but I'll prolly handle her the batbooks someday to cehck what she finds) like one regarding Naruto, Sasuke and Nagato as the trinity of the Hindu and stuff (Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu but we didn't release yet, some months in the making already lol).  

It was addicting, in the Hindu for example there are 330 million forms to interpret entities (not 330 million gods per se, that's a mistake). So when pick something to read it always awakes curiosity for another thing, that goes for another and another and another...  It's a nice exercise, in the end you're just acquiring more info.


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## ghstwrld (Feb 23, 2010)

lol 

I asked because I remember reading whole sections of Rod's post around the time Pain was introduced in Naruto.


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## Taleran (Feb 23, 2010)

It doesn't surprise me that a religion/belief structure from the East shows its faces in material from the east 


It also works back into Grant's work with the Invisibles


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## Rod (Feb 23, 2010)

He likes to use these elements, I remember reading his work featuring some Kabalah points too.

The current Gm, I consider personally very similar in the way they structurate their scripts to Kishimoto, they both create characters built among a new interpretation over something perhaps mythological and start working with them retelling a tale with a new point of view plus adapted to their work (in Gm's case he also has to work with characters that are already done of course so it kinda limitates him, but a good job he does to still manage to portray them as a image of something bigger ).

This is kind of a sucessful formula really, and very smart of them afterall it wouldn't have endured over the centuries be these mythos wahetver they are if they hadn't first fascinated people, attracted interest of them.

When you relate things to a background, like for example in xinto animals, and there's all these legends about them like the 3 sannin, the rikudo sennin, or use the devil taunting the uncorruptible good like Morrison trying to finds the tracks with these stories is just so much fun tbh.


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## Agmaster (Feb 23, 2010)

Did you just...comapre kishi to gm?  Oooooh...


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## Rod (Feb 23, 2010)

Yeah, but it just regards to how they structurate the story not how they script and narrate it per se, it's not simply Kishimoto it's mangakas in general, GM has a very similar way of building a tale around a mythological stuff kinda like we see in general portrays of Shonen Jump editions.

Like for example, Kishimoto started building having in minds the bijuus, a kitsune attack etc... Morrsion started having in mind the devil trying to taunt the good etc...


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## Bender (Feb 24, 2010)

^

Slow down there boy you're starting to cross into the danger zone.  If you've been paying any attention to Kishis story then you would understand that his writing has little creativity nor appeal. It's a shitty fanfiction while Morrisons writing is a work of art.  A better mangaka artist to compare Morrison to would be Oda-sensei and Berserk author Kentaro Miura. pek pek


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## Rod (Feb 24, 2010)

I find Kishi really good in ideas in general, he to me just seems to be lacking in the execution of them.

Morrison is good at having the ideas alongside showing them already.


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## Agmaster (Feb 24, 2010)

Slow the roll blaze.  If we are gonna go claiming gm on teams of our fave mangakas, I'm tapping OG and Nobuyuki Anzai.  Ok, Anzai is jsut a pull as he based his writing style off of Togashi with better personalities and intere character play.  

I rarely look at a series for it's esoteric worth.  This is probably why I haven't read fables, sandman, starman, or most of gm's work.  I fully appreciate meta, yet I have not really found it to be presented in a way that I did not eventually get bored with.

And yes, Kishi's idea base and world building skills are lush.


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## Taleran (Feb 24, 2010)

Read The Invisibles or Flex


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 24, 2010)

B & R was pretty sick this week, I'm looking forward to the next time Dick talks to Tim, although it was kinda odd how he said "Tim Drake," like the guy isn't practically his brother.

Alfred, Damian, and zombie bats were the stars of this one. For some reason though, Grant's characterization of Dick is starting to rub me the wrong way. Hopefully it's just me.


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## Castiel (Feb 24, 2010)

oh god fake Batman talking like someone with severe brain damage


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## Castiel (Feb 24, 2010)

Agmaster said:


> Slow the roll blaze.  If we are gonna go claiming gm on teams of our fave mangakas, I'm tapping OG and Nobuyuki Anzai.  Ok, Anzai is jsut a pull as he based his writing style off of Togashi with better personalities and intere character play.
> 
> I rarely look at a series for it's esoteric worth.  This is probably why I haven't read fables, sandman, starman, or most of gm's work.  I fully appreciate meta, yet I have not really found it to be presented in a way that I did not eventually get bored with.
> 
> And yes, Kishi's idea base and world building skills are lush.



How the fuck is Starman meta?

also Anzai followed up Recca with MAR, Togashi followed up YYH with HxH.  yeah togashi wins


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## Taleran (Feb 24, 2010)

Good issue Zombie Batman was fun and there was a nice chunk of action.


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## Rod (Feb 25, 2010)

I kind of picture:

Dick: Tim I want to apolog...

Tim: I SO FUCKEN TOLD YA.

Dick: huh?

Tim: WHO'S THE DADDY NOW, BITCHES?

Dick: ?

Tim: WHO's THE DADDY NOW, MOTHERFUCKERS? 

Dick: O.o

Tim: I'M DA BOSS OF DA CAVE NOW.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 25, 2010)

Rod said:


> I kind of picture:
> 
> Dick: Tim I want to apolog...
> 
> ...



Haha.

I'd rather, going forward, ANY time that Dick doubts Tim...EVER, on ANYTHING, Tim just goes "Hey Dick, remember that time I thought bruce was alive and you called me crazy, and it turned out I was right?  "


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## Rod (Feb 25, 2010)

I'm gonna publish a review of the theory soon, I finally got to make a connection that wanted to study since the beginning and imma really eager to show this content, will try expose/explain more stuff than before like the Joker, Batman 666, the demon masks, Jezebel etc... alot more images to cut, but i think it'll be a nice read, it'll of course be a bigger wall of text in the end but alas...


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## Taleran (Feb 25, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Haha.
> 
> I'd rather, going forward, ANY time that Dick doubts Tim...EVER, on ANYTHING, Tim just goes "Hey Dick, remember that time I thought bruce was alive and you called me crazy, and it turned out I was right?  "



then Damian mentions no matter how hard you try to be like Bruce you will never be his son

and then breaks both his legs


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## Castiel (Feb 25, 2010)

give Tim some credit

one broken leg


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 25, 2010)

Or ya know, he'll end up on the ground, like the last time he mouthed off to Tim.

I get that its just fanwank, but if Tim ever fought him seriously he'd take him down relatively easily.


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## Petes12 (Feb 25, 2010)

Morrison writes Damian to be a lot tougher than is frankly possible.


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## Taleran (Feb 25, 2010)

That might be because he was trained from birth by a clan of secret ninja assassin's he was grown in a machine his spine is made of metal hes trying to live up to his father who is BATMAN and its all happening in a _comic book_

maybe


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 25, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Morrison writes Damian to be a lot tougher than is frankly possible.



I dunno about that.

I mean he got punked by Scarlet of all people, and emotional instability (due to her being the girl he failed) aside, she was a total scrub compared to the amount of skill he has.

Also, Jason Todd treated him like a child.

Damian is definitely a little hellion, but he's still 10 years old, and still lacking in experience, but he makes up for it with viciousness. The kids going to be ridiculous when he grows up. Even completely ignoring 666, he's definitely a potential bat-candidate if down the line DC ever decided to do a permanent change.

And like Taleran said, it's a comicbook.


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## Petes12 (Feb 25, 2010)

Taleran said:


> That might be because he was trained from birth by a clan of secret ninja assassin's he was grown in a machine his spine is made of metal hes trying to live up to his father who is BATMAN and its all happening in a _comic book_
> 
> maybe



Oh I know, I'm just saying I would not be surprised at all if he was written to beat Tim in a fair fight, as much as it would rub me the wrong way.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 25, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Oh I know, I'm just saying I would not be surprised at all if he was written to beat Tim in a fair fight, as much as it would rub me the wrong way.



By Morrison? I doubt it. Even if he loved Damian as much as Geoff loves Hal, I doubt he'd let it get in the way of good writing.

The only problem I have with GM's writing is that he makes Dick sorta dumb, but not to the point where i'm ragin or anything.

It's not like Damian has gotten oodles better since his earlier appearances, and the last time Grant wrote Tim vs. Damian, Tim beat him no problem and then got sucker punched.


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## Petes12 (Feb 25, 2010)

I guess I read that scene differently than you because it sure looked to me like Damian basically kicked Tim's ass.


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## Rod (Feb 25, 2010)

*Exclusive: Detective Comics #27 Breaks One Million Dollars - New Most Expensive Comic Book Ever *



_Bleeding Cool covered the planned auction of this comic featuring the first appearance of Batman, a few weeks ago. Bought for $600 in 1960, it was expected to sell for around $300,000 but in the light of a copy of Action Comics #1, the first appearance of Superman, selling for a straight $1,000,000 this week, clearly a Batman Vs Superman grudge match was in the offing. And we know how that always goes.


_


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 25, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I guess I read that scene differently than you because it sure looked to me like Damian basically kicked Tim's ass.



Huh?

Tim avoids the grenade head, blocks a few strikes then grapples out of Damian's view and kicks him off the dinosaur.

After he helps him up Damian sucker punches him off of it with spiked knucks.

I don't call that an asskicking. I mean he won sure, but only due to the fact that Tim didn't think he'd try to kill a guy who just saved his life.


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## Castiel (Feb 25, 2010)

WW's right.  just checked my TPB


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 25, 2010)

Ha wow, surprised I remember.

I guess it's because of how annoyed I got when all the Damian megafans kept badgering on about how Damian totally lolpwned Tim.

Luckily all the Damian vs. Tim jank has died down now that Tim's been "forcefully promoted" ha.


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## Taleran (Feb 25, 2010)

I read Arkham Asylum today twas 'interesting' to say the least


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## Castiel (Feb 25, 2010)

Morrison's OGN, Dan Slott's mini or David Hine's stuff?


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## Taleran (Feb 25, 2010)

Serious House


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## Castiel (Feb 25, 2010)

on Serious Earth


yeah that was a hoot, pretty much all the psychology went over my head but definitely made for a gripping story.

you read Gothic yet?


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## Rod (Feb 25, 2010)

The message from the copycat bruce just sounded too much Spidey's clone saga to me, I suspect Morrison is about to retcon stuff be it editorial mandated or planned from the beginning (in this case not being a retcon per se).


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## ghstwrld (Feb 25, 2010)

Agmaster said:


> Slow the roll blaze.  If we are gonna go claiming gm on teams of our fave mangakas, I'm tapping OG and Nobuyuki Anzai.  Ok, Anzai is jsut a pull as he based his writing style off of Togashi with better personalities and intere character play.
> 
> I rarely look at a series for it's esoteric worth.  This is probably why I haven't read fables, sandman, starman, or most of gm's work.  I fully appreciate meta, yet I have not really found it to be presented in a way that I did not eventually get bored with.
> 
> And yes, Kishi's idea base and world building skills are lush.




Yes, Fables and JOF becomes more smug and less enjoyable with every passing episode.

And Gaiman?  

smh

I'm still not quite over American Gods and Anansi Boys.


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 25, 2010)

Did anyone catch the spelling error in B&R?

Folow.

Man, what are the editors doing on B&R?


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## Castiel (Feb 26, 2010)

Frost and McDuff are cool, and an interesting change up to JoF.  also Bufkin

also I've never read Gaiman's prose my opinion of him is still high, at worst he's done mehish stories on stuff he probably wasn't a fit for


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## ghstwrld (Feb 26, 2010)

There's barely any story there, though.  

It's mostly: This is Lady Luck. DO YOU SEE?  This is anthropomorphic fallacy.   DO YOU SEE?

It's been several years now, Bill.  We've got it: You have total command of your encyclopedias and literary textbooks.


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## Castiel (Feb 26, 2010)

all the literals are gone or depowered, and unlike JH, JF is a thoroughly likeable lead and does actual adventuring.  you know like in the old tales


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## ghstwrld (Feb 26, 2010)

I'll pass.

I really enjoyed both books a couple of years back (I have pimp posts to prove it!), but everything turned to crap after that awful Israel bit.  It all became really lazy and really stale really fast.  Even the first couple of TPBs have lost their shine - "Been climbing beanstalks again?"  

Plus, the James Jean excuse is gone.

Basically, Bill doesn't have much command of those encyclopedias and literary textbooks after all.


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## Castiel (Feb 26, 2010)

entirely your loss.  dont really see how complaints against Bill's occasional heavy handed politics has to do with JoF where he tries to keep it out, and matt does a lot of the work on that and like I said it's a radically different book in every way
but whatever
/shrugs, plays pokemans


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 26, 2010)

Everything became really transparent for me, and it was clear both books were mostly concerned with showcasing how smart Bill feels he is.

In other words, what I said upthread.

And Matt Sturges(sp?) was the co-writer on JOF from the very beginning.




> entirely your loss



lol

No, I've merely moved to bigger and better things such as Bleach.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 26, 2010)

oh god my sides


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 26, 2010)

I knew you'd love it.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 26, 2010)

wonderweiss wasted potential incarnate (lol incarnate)


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Feb 26, 2010)

Dear guy drawing Batman and Robin. Please, stop making it look like Dick is wearing saggy, oversized boxers over his suit. 

Sincerly, Teh Goddamn Chaos Ghost


----------



## shit (Feb 26, 2010)

Bleach in ur Batman thread.

Yama gunna make a paper airplane outta wonderweis.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 26, 2010)

Oh god that incarnate shit was the best.  I kinda wish I could go back in time and see that thread and this debacle again.  And hey, Bleach is apparently good enough to yank hard like an udder.  Just like Hellsing was apparently.

As for fables, I plan on reading it actually.  Have it up to issue 81 just waiting for me to get past issue like 3 or something.  I really like what the creators WANT to do, but like I said somewhere along the line their tone/style just loses me.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 26, 2010)

I'd sell those copies of Fables and continue with Bleach.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 26, 2010)

Back on Batman. . .



Comic Book Guy said:


> Did anyone catch the spelling error in B&R?
> 
> "Folow."
> 
> Man, what are the editors doing on B&R?


----------



## Bender (Feb 26, 2010)

^

You should see the grammar error they made in Justice League Blackest night #42..? I think


----------



## Taleran (Feb 27, 2010)

Okay here is a question for you guys can you imagine what Batman will be like After Grant is done writing him?


----------



## Slice (Feb 28, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Okay here is a question for you guys can you imagine what Batman will be like After Grant is done writing him?



Which directly leads to another question:

How long will it stick until people retcon Batman back to the pre Morrison version.



And reading B&R i have to say while i certainly enjoy the art way more than Tan's somehow the faces (especially when portraying emotion) are a bit off.
Cant wait to see Quitely back.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 28, 2010)

Maybe if Dini was writing him again. . . don't get me wrong, he writes a fantastic Batman (both TAS and comic) but he's not Morrison and thus doesn't have Morrison's rendering of Batman.


----------



## mow (Feb 28, 2010)

I'm honestly scared of it. It's shaping up to be one of those runs that everything, before and after, will pale in comparison to. GM is driving the entire concept of "The Batman" to it's maximum levels. We've had Batman vs criminals, Batman vs supernatural, etc but we've never had Batman vs _Everything_. And that's what GM's run will be; the most optimum batman run where batman becomes the most optimum human.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 28, 2010)

mow said:


> I'm honestly scared of it. It's shaping up to be one of those runs that everything, before and after, will pale in comparison to. GM is driving the entire concept of "The Batman" to it's maximum levels. We've had Batman vs criminals, Batman vs supernatural, etc but we've never had Batman vs _Everything_. And that's what GM's run will be; the most optimum batman run where batman becomes the most optimum human.



Yup.

I'm scared that when someone else writes him, he'll come up with stories and plots that would otherwise be good, but I'll be thinking "Wait, so this is the enemy/challenge/problem? How is batman having trouble with this at all?"


----------



## Taleran (Feb 28, 2010)

We could get a BONG!


----------



## Rod (Feb 28, 2010)

I think it'll be like it usually is, next writer will do it like nothing happened pratically and Batman levels will be just the necessary to top the villain eventually, that is in my opinion why we have so many confusion regarding what's continuity.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 28, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Okay here is a question for you guys can you imagine what Batman will be like After Grant is done writing him?



Status Quo is God


----------



## Rod (Feb 28, 2010)

^
incomplete.

God*damn*.

Yes, Batman has his own particular status, that's how awesome he is.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 28, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Okay here is a question for you guys can you imagine what Batman will be like After Grant is done writing him?



It's not too hard, considering there's like 5 batman books not written by morrison.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 28, 2010)

But none features Bruce Wayne.

And Hush doesn't count.

Man, can you imagine the mental power-up Hush would receive if Morrison wrote him?


----------



## Rod (Feb 28, 2010)

What would be a good thing.

Hush is still lacking that definitive story to go down in comic history that will sacrament for once and all his character as a classic batvillain in his own characteristics and not some modified version of another baddie made by some dude, for some reason it feels like he wasn't used  yet at it's full potential given the background story that is very shocking and at same time interesting to explore, certainly there's a nice opportunity of  next big batvillain here, it'll depend on circunstances as always.

Still, it's a relatively young created character, that's a nice premise for the future in terms of developments.



> But none features Bruce Wayne.



How's not 

thar r liek,  3 or 4 Bruce Wayne stuffz goin on, just not actual continuity ones


----------



## Taleran (Feb 28, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> But none features Bruce Wayne.



Liar Daniel is writing Batman no different no matter who it is it could be Bruce for all we know


----------



## Bender (Mar 1, 2010)

Aye you guy remember Justice League: Tower of Babel arc? I got a question for you guys, regarding the aftermath of the little incident. Did the Justice League allow Bats to keep his contingency plans on how kill the leaguers in case they go bad?


----------



## Rod (Mar 1, 2010)

He still has them.

Either way, don't mess up with Batman.

That zatanna thing, was responsible for one of the most memorable exchanges in these nowadays comics:

Batman called Zee to help in something or stuff liek that and then she demonstrated that was happy with the fact he remembered her.

Even if he called, it was just due obvious logical reasons he needed in order to accomplish a case, Bruce does never look in Zee's face, her presence is indiferent for him, he's just too much cold with her, you can see the extreme deception that Bruce does feel, he never expected she would do that to him, still Zatanna still feels the old tender friend is out there trying to resurface:  

Bruce moves towards the Batmobile. Zatanna stays behind and talk to him. 

Zatanna: "_I'm happy that we are perhaps restablishing our friendship, Bruce"_ (something like that)

Bruce: _"I wanted someone I could trust."_

Zatanna'a happy party expression, smile etc..

Bruce: _"But only got you."_

Zatanna's clearly deceptioned face with his coldness.

Bruce: _"Now, get in the car."_



*Holy shit.... YEAHHHHHH*


----------



## mow (Mar 2, 2010)

^ okay, you got to post that baby!


----------



## Rod (Mar 2, 2010)

Oh darn, I'll look at old issues, it's some years ago stuff 


Anyways, we know how it ended, some time later (tec runs), Zatanna finally got to "melt" his heart, it happens additionally she fall for Bruce and apparently he wanted to reciprocrate (he said even though they were long time friends it was an usual thought in his mind they could be more? w00t?), it's still up in the air this stuff so certainly they will return to that Zatanna part some time later just as they will also need to another important interests as we saw. 


I have a theory every woman around Bruce's age that stays an extended amount of time around him, falls for. 


Hei, it's time for a new poll


----------



## Castiel (Mar 2, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #862 preview_


----------



## Taleran (Mar 2, 2010)




----------



## Bender (Mar 2, 2010)

^

   

Aye, speaking of which when is good old Doctor Hurt gonna show up? 

Morrison said that he's going to show up in his Batman & Robin series. But how dat possible if there's only 2 issues left?


----------



## Taleran (Mar 2, 2010)

2 issues left? What are you talking about the Series is 16+ issue and Hurt has already shown up


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 2, 2010)

He probably saw the solicit that said "final issue of batman vs robin" and misread it as meaning the whole series, not the arc.


----------



## Bender (Mar 2, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> He probably saw the solicit that said "final issue of batman vs robin" and misread it as meaning the whole series, not the arc.



Wait it's DC that decides when the B&R series will end? I thought Morrison has complete creative control of this project?


----------



## Taleran (Mar 2, 2010)

Batman vs. Robin =/= Batman & Robin


----------



## Rod (Mar 2, 2010)

It was going to end in the 12th issue, however Morrison has stated a new idea arrived and decided to extend the series a bit.

However, from the issue 16th+ it'll be Bruce.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 2, 2010)

It will be a sad day when Morrison leaves Batman. . .

. . . But Multiversity will be most welcome.


----------



## Rod (Mar 2, 2010)

Fuck the multiverse, in all honesty.

He should stay in Batman where he is doing a brilliant work. 

Still this year we'll have at some point Morrison and Johns (in his batdebut) writing Batman related stuff, can't get better than that.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 2, 2010)

Does he really have any reason to leave? Its not like he can't handle multiple books at once, right?


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 3, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


>



this is pretty much how I imagine you.


----------



## Rod (Mar 3, 2010)

Kilo, let's start a new poll.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 4, 2010)

so anyone else read 'Tec?


----------



## Rod (Mar 4, 2010)

mow said:


> ...



Hmm, I think Grant isn't going to be the main writter in this one, he said something about being in a consutorial role together with Geoff Johns and Marv Wolfman regarding the multiverse, stories were already in process of development btw.

Cap Marvel being one they were satisfied about.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 4, 2010)

Ah, Bette Kane.

Yes.

And. . .

Commissioner Gordon's daughter?!


----------



## Rod (Mar 4, 2010)

I'll pick it (tec) only tomorrow, so we'll see, not amused at the art tho by the previews.

Anyways, the art in this one here is looking pretty strange too:


*Spoiler*: _B&R #10 preview_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 4, 2010)

Am I the only one who thinks Damien verbally bitch slapping the board of directors is kind of retarded?

Why not just have Elliot say the same thing, I mean thats what he's there for right? To be their puppet wayne?


----------



## Rod (Mar 4, 2010)

Hah, I'll go so "I told you" when it's revealed Oberon Sexton was Bruce Wayne all along.

He already escaped the Sanction times ago, and is pulling the strings from the background. Mini will most likely reveal this, eventually.

He'll unveal himself when the time is right.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 4, 2010)

is that Vril Dox on the first page?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 4, 2010)

Rod said:


> I'll pick it (tec) only tomorrow, so we'll see, not amused at the art tho by the previews.
> 
> Anyways, the art in this one here is looking pretty strange too:
> 
> ...



Damian, you never fail to make me laugh.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 4, 2010)

Rod said:


> I'll pick it (tec) only tomorrow, so we'll see, not amused at the art tho by the previews.
> 
> Anyways, the art in this one here is looking pretty strange too:



Don't be hating on Jock and Clarke


----------



## Rod (Mar 4, 2010)

It's because that first page with Damian he looks pretty strange, it's like an action figure and he has a balloon head 


Jock I guess was more harmed by the colorist overdoing it in some parts and not in others


----------



## Bender (Mar 4, 2010)

Rod said:


> Hah, I'll go so "I told you" when it's revealed Oberon Sexton was Bruce Wayne all along.
> 
> He already escaped the Sanction times ago, and is pulling the strings from the background. Mini will most likely reveal this, eventually.
> 
> He'll unveal himself when the time is right.



What makes you think he's Oberton Sexton? 

Also allow me throw my hat into the ring of guessing who Bruce is. 

I read on the DC comics forums about this theory of Bruce being Ra's Al Ghul. 

Do you guys think it's possible?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 4, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I read on the DC comics forums about this theory of Bruce being Ra's Al Ghul.
> 
> Do you guys think it's possible?



Wait..wha? Hell no.

Most of the people at the DC comics forum are crazy. They're either stupid, or take comics WAY too seriously.


----------



## Rod (Mar 4, 2010)

> What makes you think he's Oberton Sexton?



_"I guess you and I were victims of a similar trouble"_ Bruce Wayne's very initial speech to Dick Grayson in Detective Comics #38.(yeah golden age)


_"It seems we have a mutual interest in crime."_ Oberon Sexton's very initial Speech to Dick Grayson.






Just saying.


----------



## Bender (Mar 4, 2010)

Also my bad for being ignorant of the character but which issue did Oberton Sexton first appear in? 

I will forever worship the ground Morrison walks on if he indeed does cannon golden age stories.


----------



## Rod (Mar 4, 2010)

^

B&R #4


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Mar 4, 2010)

When There is Something Strange in Your Comic Book Who You Gonna Call ...

*MythBusters*


----------



## Taleran (Mar 4, 2010)

I kinda get the Vibe that Talia is the Domino Killer


----------



## Rod (Mar 4, 2010)

^

That would kind of sail some ship. 


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Castiel (Mar 5, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Wait..wha? Hell no.
> 
> Most of the people at the DC comics forum are crazy. They're either stupid, or take comics WAY too seriously.


Fuckers ran Kyle Baker out of the forum and led to him saying 'fuck this' and stop working on Plastic Man

every one of them should be gassed 


Taleran said:


> I kinda get the Vibe that Talia is the Domino Killer


ditto


----------



## Rod (Mar 5, 2010)

Do not forget Jason Todd in the equation, folks.


He has used a domino mask before.



Just saying.



Priceless it would be if it was Talia, I'ts like it would totally kill any left mood that might have existed between Bruce and her, I'd pay to see this just for the nerdrage eventually from one or other shipper.

Because this part always delivers the comedy.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 5, 2010)

Jason would jump at any chance given to Hound a Dick Grayson Batman


----------



## Castiel (Mar 5, 2010)




----------



## Slice (Mar 5, 2010)

Delicious Kubert covers.

I love them.


----------



## Bender (Mar 5, 2010)

FUCKING KICK-ASS! 

My god I am in love.... pek pek pek


----------



## Rod (Mar 5, 2010)

Notice the main pattern in always Black and Red.


Hope you made the connection.



Just saying.


----------



## Rod (Mar 5, 2010)

*Hei, New Gm/Ak interview, folks.
*


----------



## Taleran (Mar 5, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _These Get MORE AND MORE AWESOME_


----------



## Rod (Mar 5, 2010)

> *Grant Morrison*: We see Batman as the rational, enlightened educated man facing the powers of unreason and human cruelty and ignorance.



Hmm.

Heh, I like this.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 5, 2010)

Of course you would everything hes saying in this interview is lining up with what you posted a few pages back perfectly


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 5, 2010)

Noir Batman is so awesome! Can't really say it any better than Rod did.


----------



## Bender (Mar 5, 2010)

Detective Bats= win pek pek


----------



## Castiel (Mar 5, 2010)

Was flipping through my 52 TPB earlier.

damn did Morrison plant a lot of seeds, one issue had Dick narrate what was essentially the whole point of RIP


----------



## Rod (Mar 5, 2010)

This work is crazy, I have alot of things to show you all here but I don't know where to start really, alot of scenes with various mythological meanings and psychological constructions, kinda like I've pointed earlier.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 5, 2010)

what I want to know is if Morrison going to use anything from Gothic

Gothic is the only major Batman work Morrison hasn't touched on in any way shape or form.  Same can be said for Arkham, but AA set up the groundwork for his take on the Joker and had the basic "hit rock bottom before triumphing" theme

Mainly asking cause Gothic has a couple things that could fit in.   mainly,

the Shadowless Man got his powers from the Devil
this same Shadowless Man is stated to be somehow connected to the death of the Waynes


----------



## Taleran (Mar 5, 2010)

AA Also according to Morrison takes Bruce out of the grim and into Zen Warrior JLA Batman

He goes into the Madhouse to Face his Demons and rebuilds himself from the experience

not to mention Killer Croc and the Spear is a pretty obvious reference to the Dragon in the book of Revelations


----------



## Rod (Mar 5, 2010)

I'll give you an idea on how are Morrison's storylines are mythologically and psychologically build, so you can understand how it is to study that:

(It's nice you mentioned AA because RIP works like a bigger version of such that I've been making connections, here it comes a small piece of the AA script so you can see)



_Batman spears the villain Killer Croc and is speared in return. "What wounds are these? I am Attis on the pine. Christ on the cedar. Odin on the world-ash." On the next page Killer Croc jumps out of a window, the spear still in his side:_






*Morrison's original storyboard notes:* _"Croc is framed in the shattering window as it explodes beneath his weight. His arms are thrown wide, in an attitude of crucifixion. The broken spear juts from his side and the shattering glass creates a jagged halo around his vast, deformed head. He becomes the image of the Serpent/Christ (and also evokes Moby Dick, with the harpoon in his side) a medieval allegory which Jung interpreted as being symbolic of "an overcoming of the unconscious and, at the same time, of the attitude of the son who unconsciously hangs on his mother."_

*15th anniversary added commentary:* _"In Qabalistic numerology, Christ = Satan = Messiah, which is why Croc appears here in crucifixion pose, taking the place of Christ on this blasphemous cross. In this scene, Batman reunites Christ and Serpent, then confronts and overcomes his own attachment to his Mother in a perverse nightmare of lizards, lace and bridal embroidery. *Much of this subtextual material was lost on the casual reader* but that didn't seem to stop us from shifting mega-amounts of copies. I do believe that people respond emotionally to deep mythical patterns whether or not they actually recognise or "understand" them as such, but the fact that our book launched at the time of the outrageously successful Batman film by Tim Burton probably helped more than anything else."_


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 6, 2010)

*Yes, please!  XD*





> Dear DC Comics: Please hire Polly Guo to create a Damian Wayne solo comic. An ongoing series would be swell, but I'll settle for a mini -- or even a one-shot. You can see more of Guo's work, including additional Damian-Robin illustrations, .


----------



## Lucaniel (Mar 6, 2010)

that is some fitting art

the flesh-coloured stockings made me do a double-take for a sec though


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 6, 2010)

You know what I would love?

Morrison on Superman long-run. Canon Superman long-run.

Imagine what he can come up with.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 6, 2010)

CBG have you read the Superman 2000 proposal?


----------



## Bender (Mar 6, 2010)

@ Ghstworld 

I'm all for a Damian Wayne comic so long as he goes under a different name other than Robin. Don't get me wrong he's kick-ass at the sidekick role; but he appealed to me much more when he was the third guy that appeared next to Tim and Dick like he did in the "Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul" story arc and "Batman R.I.P.". 

Btw you guys anyone else pissed at how we haven't gotten our promised 2010 return of Cassandra Cain?


----------



## Rod (Mar 6, 2010)

Words of wisdom:

There's a long way to go yet.

U.U


----------



## Bender (Mar 6, 2010)

Rod said:


> Words of wisdom:
> 
> There's a long way to go yet.
> 
> U.U



I hope Alan Moore strangles the shit out of Didio when he sees how badly he fucks up Watchmen. 

Beat him down like Lopez beat down Carlos Mencia when he stole his jokes.


----------



## Rod (Mar 6, 2010)

Anyways, I expect her (Cassandra) to be back a bit after Bruce. He is the point she is absent, nonetheless. There it's to expect Cassie's return as soon as she receive the news.

If not then should start worrying.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 7, 2010)

Rod said:


> Anyways, I expect her (Cassandra) to be back a bit after Bruce. He is the point she is absent, nonetheless. There it's to expect Cassie's return as soon as she receive the news.
> 
> If not then should start worrying.



Any writer moving forward with Cass Cain should completely ignore the "I fought for him...but no more." 

Personally I saw that as pretty out of character, since she always seemed more loyal to the symbol than to the man.


----------



## Rod (Mar 7, 2010)

^

I see, in this way I think she looks more like Bruce than the others in the obsessive aspect, imo that's why she values it so much, they do share that workaholic bound that makes them overly dedicate to that, really like the usual obsession and angst to fight people see in Bruce, I see that in Cass too. 

Though I think they should portray the shock value nonetheless, after the whole confuse misguided life she had, and losing the person that finally represented what she never had (family), this prolly hurt and prolly hard.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 7, 2010)

Rod said:


> ^
> 
> I see, in this way I think she looks more like Bruce than the others in the obsessive aspect, imo that's why she values it so much, they do share that workaholic bound that makes them overly dedicate to that, really like the usual obsession and angst to fight people see in Bruce, I see that in Cass too.
> 
> Though I think they should portray the shock value nonetheless, after the whole confuse misguided life she had, and losing the person that finally represented what she never had (family), this prolly hurt and prolly hard.



Oh it's definitely a reason for her to be pretty distraught, that makes sense. He really was like a father to her and she did work hard for his approval like any daughter would, but her reasons for fighting to help people don't begin and end with bruce.

It was just a quick and easy way to get Cass out of the picture and put steph in the batgirl role.

And yea, I agree that Cass has/had a similar tinge of angst/obsession to why she fights.


----------



## Rod (Mar 7, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> It was just a quick and easy way to get Cass out of the picture and put steph in the batgirl role.



Precisely.


Tho, I think it's not like Cass and Tim want to cut all communication, tbh Dick could prolly track them down via family bank account etc... It's more like besides being busy, Richard understands she needs that time alone, same goes to Tim.

But it's very possible that Cassandra may be conducting her own investigation nonetheless.

Once she returns I think she won't accept shit from Damian, this would of be hilarious.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 8, 2010)

On Cassandra Cain:

Nothing solicited about her up to May of 2010.

As for writers on Cassandra Cain, Q. Miller said she's open to anyone who wants to write her.

So, she's stuck in character limbo.

FFS, *I* want to write her. Up to this point, only a Cassandra Cain Fan(boy/girl) can properly write her.

And *FUCK YOU*, Beechen. Fucking bastard.



Taleran said:


> CBG have you read the Superman 2000 proposal?



Is that the pitched special one-shots from All-Star Superman?


----------



## Taleran (Mar 8, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Is that the pitched special one-shots from All-Star Superman?







> Grant Morrison   Mark Waid
> 
> Mark Millar   Tom Peyer
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 8, 2010)

Taleran what's the sig from. It's stupid to base this on one picture but I am already interested in whatever it is.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 8, 2010)

JLA Confidential, first arc


----------



## Rod (Mar 8, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> So, she's stuck in character limbo.
> 
> FFS, *I* want to write her. Up to this point, only a Cassandra Cain Fan(boy/girl) can properly write her.
> 
> And *FUCK YOU*, Beechen. Fucking bastard.



You still lack hatred. 




> Our intention is to restore Superman to his pre-eminent place as the greatest super-hero of all *and to topple Spawn and every Marvel comic that’s currently in his way.*



Misery.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 8, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> On Cassandra Cain:
> 
> Nothing solicited about her up to May of 2010.
> 
> ...



You think there's any chance she could end up in Birds of Prey at all?


----------



## Rod (Mar 8, 2010)

Gail Simone much?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 8, 2010)

My initial guess for who the shadow is


----------



## Rod (Mar 8, 2010)




----------



## Petes12 (Mar 8, 2010)

Doesn't Cassandra have pretty short hair?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 8, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Doesn't Cassandra have pretty short hair?



Doesn't hair grow?


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 8, 2010)

Not often in comics


----------



## Rod (Mar 8, 2010)

Massive shadowy figure with gritted teeth and clenched fists behind Huntress.

Dove.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 9, 2010)

Due to  a scheduling error the new issues of Batgirl and Red Robin come out tomorrow.  

(Batgirl is part 1 of a crossover, Red Robin is part 2)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 9, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Due to  a scheduling error the new issues of Batgirl and Red Robin come out tomorrow.
> 
> (Batgirl is part 1 of a crossover, Red Robin is part 2)



I was pretty happy when I heard about this.

Not a huge fan of Batgirl. But RR is the book I most look forward to every month. It'll be nice to get two issues of this Tim vs. Ra's arc in one week.

And I get to see Tim's reaction to Steph batgirl! We've already seen  maybe now we'll see either  or


----------



## Rod (Mar 9, 2010)

I really really suspect they'll pull something for Cassandra, she'll be involved in this somewhat.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 9, 2010)

good questions


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 9, 2010)

Rod said:


> I really really suspect they'll pull something for Cassandra, she'll be involved in this somewhat.



Not sure how i'd feel about this. Sometimes nothing is better than something.

Damn, Morrison's batman run just gets more and more interesting.


----------



## Rod (Mar 9, 2010)

Tal, you prefer us to comment here or in the blog?

Just asking so we can discuss.

Sorry I'm such a sucker to discuss symbolysm.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 9, 2010)

Its not my blog discuss away here or there


----------



## Rod (Mar 9, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Not sure how i'd feel about this. Sometimes nothing is better than something.
> 
> Damn, Morrison's batman run just gets more and more interesting.



Hmm, I think they'll just say she was investigating herself somewhat.


----------



## Rod (Mar 9, 2010)

One thing that I"d like to point, is that now you'll see the origins of the devil's hate to Batman, I mean let's assume there is a sequence:

D - E - F - G - A - B - C

ABC - past
DE - present
FG - future

That sequence represents Morrison's whole history in a timeline with each letter being one element of the storyline, anyways, the story is told in a way the cards are mixed. When Hurt first appeared everybody went: "Who is this guy? How he knows so much? Why is he doing that?" etc.. But people were assuming things happened intrinsically in the present. And a real lot still do.

 However if you put things in perspective and assume unically the temporal line ( A - B - C - D - E - F - G), it's possible to conclude in terms of cronology, Batman first met the devil (even though he first discovered knowledge in it in the future but returned to past) in the cavetime (A), then in 16th century(B), then...(C), and then...(D), and then...(E), etc...

So in this case Bruce Wayne as the history goes by, stopped the devil multiple times, a fight trhough the ages. Batman became the devil's historical enemy per se, that's why it (devil) hates him (Bruce) so much. Works like his nemesis.

This was kind of cheap way to explain by I hope you got the basics.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 9, 2010)

I wish Morrison would stop writing Batman. Not because I dislike the stuff, I really like it, I just get tired of seeing all these theories and connections and stuff


----------



## Rod (Mar 9, 2010)

His run in Batman is brilliant, I hope he'll stay for many years upcoming.

Besides Grant is keeping the seat for like 2 years at least, he wants the new writters to assimilate the changes Bruce will have after he returns, in this case writing the upcoming years w/ stories of his Batman in a way immediate successors take his version as reference, and not happen what usually when an arc ends and the writter leaves there's not much time to show the modifications that may've happened in the personality so we always have the generic version.

Don't get me wrong tho, I'm not his usual fanboy you guys see around, stuff like Final Crisis I didn't like, unfortunately.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I wish Morrison would stop writing Batman. Not because I dislike the stuff, I really like it, I just get tired of seeing all these theories and connections and stuff



I think all that stuff is really interesting, but on the downside it means you have to wait a while to get the full picture. and by then i've forgotten so much and have to go back and reread stuff.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 9, 2010)

I like it, it leads to re-readabilty.

I'm looking forward to reading Grant's entire run on Batman keeping in mind all the theories and stuff i've read.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2010)

Oh yeah, he's great. the only reason he should eventually end his run is because if he doesn't we'll never find out what's going on!


----------



## Castiel (Mar 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> good questions


We've been over this already.  Pyg is describing Harry Harlow's monkey experiments.  The Pit of Despair is one of the more famous things Harlow created.



Also Morrison is a big advocate for animal rights and has denounced what Harlow did several times


----------



## Castiel (Mar 9, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batgirl #8 preview_


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 9, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: _Batgirl #8 preview_



Dr. Mid-Nite


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 9, 2010)

"I'm not the one dressed like Dr. Mid-nite"

OH SHIT former boy wonder, you better reach into your utility straps and pull out some bat-aloe for that WICKED BURN



So glad that joke makes a comeback.

Tim seems to be being a bit over-dickish, but given the circumstances its not totally out of character. I also love the "I really need you to not be useless right now"

Say what you will about batgirl, but miller can write some pretty funny dialogue.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 9, 2010)

There is nothing there that makes me want to read this


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> There is nothing there that makes me want to read this



Eh, I'm a diehard Tim fan, and sort of a steph fan (even if her character has been butchered ever since wargames). 

The book makes me chuckle, what can i say?

Also:

Preview for Red Robin 10


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 9, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Preview for Red Robin 10



That face off reminds me of Mortal Kombat


----------



## Castiel (Mar 9, 2010)

As I said before, the guy who comes up with the schedules is a genius 

alos both previews look neat


----------



## Castiel (Mar 9, 2010)

Andy Clarke interview


----------



## Rod (Mar 9, 2010)

_"I really need you to not be useless right now"_

I don't believe believe that was the unique who expected that phrase to follow perfectly:

_"Ah. And makeme a sammich."_


----------



## mow (Mar 10, 2010)

oh look! It's batgirl!!!

Who gives a fuck 



Rod said:


> His run in Batman is brilliant, I hope he'll stay for many years upcoming.



I love thee.




Rod said:


> Don't get me wrong tho, I'm not his usual fanboy you guys see around, stuff like Final Crisis I didn't like, unfortunately.



Yet I hate thee, all at once. It's peculiar. 

all j/king aside, I really can't think of a single writer that could adequately carry the Bat helm post GM.


----------



## Rod (Mar 10, 2010)

btw, now I see... Batgirl is nonetheless Alicia Silverstone.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 10, 2010)

Rod said:


> btw, now I see... Batgirl is nonetheless Alicia Silverstone.





*Is now going to have her voice in his head while he reads Batgirl*


----------



## Rod (Mar 10, 2010)

mow said:


> I love thee.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's all about the good work  and the bad work 



> all j/king aside, I really can't think of a single writer that could adequately carry the Bat helm post GM.



I think he'll be quite the time there, even with many wanting to steal his seat.





Chaos Ghost said:


> *Is now going to have her voice in his head while he reads Batgirl*



Mwa-ha-ha.

Just as planned.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 10, 2010)

mow said:


> all j/king aside, I really can't think of a single writer that could adequately carry the Bat helm post GM.



Neither can I.

I mean there were good batman stories told before GM, and there will be good stories after GM, but he's set the bar ridonkulously high.



Rod said:


> II think he'll be quite the time there, even with many wanting to steal his seat.


Are there really many who want to steal his seat?  IMO that would take some massive cajones. 



Rod said:


> btw, now I see... Batgirl is nonetheless Alicia Silverstone.



As i'm reading comics, I take several "voices" for them from various other forms of media where they have been portrayed.

I think i'm going to hear alicia silverstone whenever I read steph now. Damn you Rod.

But this brings up a fun topic of conversation.

When reading the bat-comics, what voices do you give the characters?

For Bruce, I go with Conroy normally, with a little of Bale's batgrowl when he's pissed.
For Joker I got with Hamill normally, but Ledger when he's crazy angry.
Alfred is TAS

I could list more, but I don't feel like it.

How bout you guys? Do you have specific voices in mind when reading comics?


----------



## Rod (Mar 10, 2010)

^



Had to do it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 10, 2010)

IT BURNS!!!!!!


----------



## shit (Mar 10, 2010)

those batsuits were so fugly
alicia was hot then tho
clueless was one of my earliest fap materials


----------



## Rod (Mar 10, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Are there really many who want to steal his seat?  IMO that would take some massive cajones.



High public position in a business company. Certainly, if there's a thing that's true is that everyone wants to scale up and be as sucessful as possible, there'll always be someone looking to take over your place. Besides politics, and besides it's Batman main star writer seat, what writer wouldn't want that? It's prolly the most wanted/valued nowadays. 




> As i'm reading comics, I take several "voices" for them from various other forms of media where they have been portrayed.
> 
> I think i'm going to hear alicia silverstone whenever I read steph now. Damn you Rod.
> 
> ...



It depends, Batman sometimes I hear Conroy, but mate I have to recognise... the Brazilian voice... is a fothermucker badass²³:


----------



## mow (Mar 10, 2010)

That joker one...

I'm terrified.


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 10, 2010)

The guy doing the voice for the Joker is terrific. His laugh is horror incarnate. I'm going to be hearing that everytime I see the Joker in the comics now.


----------



## Rod (Mar 10, 2010)

Dude you wanna hear a laugh?

here's the laugh I always hear.  (same guy as before, in another scene)


----------



## Bergelmir (Mar 10, 2010)

Oh shit, that's fantastic. That is a devil of a laugh. If there is an afterlife after all, I fully expect to be sent to Hell by a Grim Reaper with that laughter.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2010)

I hear the voice of Kim Possible when I read Batgirl


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 10, 2010)

That you, sugar bumps?  

Jack Palance!


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]g426J4Uh2m4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Penance (Mar 10, 2010)

Rod said:


> High public position in a business company. Certainly, if there's a thing that's true is that everyone wants to scale up and be as sucessful as possible, there'll always be someone looking to take over your place. Besides politics, and besides it's Batman main star writer seat, what writer wouldn't want that? It's prolly the most wanted/valued nowadays.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Mar 10, 2010)

Rod said:


> His run in Batman is brilliant, I hope he'll stay for many years upcoming.
> 
> Besides Grant is keeping the seat for like 2 years at least, he wants the new writters to assimilate the changes Bruce will have after he returns, in this case writing the upcoming years w/ stories of his Batman in a way immediate successors take his version as reference, and not happen what usually when an arc ends and the writter leaves there's not much time to show the modifications that may've happened in the personality so we always have the generic version.
> 
> Don't get me wrong tho, I'm not his usual fanboy you guys see around, stuff like Final Crisis I didn't like, unfortunately.



Have you learned to become Invisible?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm trying to like batgirl, but it really is tough when it seems like Miller isn't up to date on character's he is writing.

I found it humorous how in Batgirl, Tim was an emo douchebag (like the early issues of RR) and Batgirl was a total noob. Then In Red Robin Steph is portrayed as confident and competent, with Tim acting how he should.

The "Hush." "Well that's just rude" line made me chuckle though. Overall not a bad issue.

B&R was good. Nice to see damian sort of questioning his role as robin, it's annoying when he's super cocky all the time. Also, way to stand up for Grayson.

Looking forward to next month.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2010)

man comparing batgirl to red robin these issues does not make batgirl look very good does it? miller just takes the whole 'nobody trusts steph to do a good job' thing too far, even if it's true tim never _did_ trust her. 

and the fill in artist they got was bad.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2010)

oh yeah and B+R was outstanding. art was sometimes a little weird, especially damian. But I really enjoyed the story.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2010)

B&R was fantastic.

Batgirl blew.  Red Robin was pretty darn good and made up for it.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 10, 2010)

mow said:


> That joker one...
> 
> I'm terrified.



As am I

I shall return when Ive read and have comments and such


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm liking the idea of Damian truly coming to respect Dick and actually hold him in higher esteem than his own parents.  Just rings true to me.

Also the clues for Return were neat


----------



## Taleran (Mar 10, 2010)

A Mystery is Afoot

god I LOVE THIS COMIC

and all the demonic symbolism, 

WARNING INCOMING ROD POST
WARNING INCOMING ROD POST


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> A Mystery is Afoot
> 
> god I LOVE THIS COMIC



I feel like the only thing that could've made that issue better is if Dick had pulled out the old school magnifying glass


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2010)

"you're a freak"


----------



## Rod (Mar 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Have you learned to become Invisible?



Depends. 

Only metatextual-psychedelically.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 10, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> man comparing batgirl to red robin these issues does not make batgirl look very good does it? miller just takes the whole 'nobody trusts steph to do a good job' thing too far, even if it's true tim never _did_ trust her.
> 
> and the fill in artist they got was bad.



Yup.

I like Steph, but I hate it when writers draw her entire character from War Games. Sure, she's not the most experienced gal on the block, but punching Tim in the face? Are you freaking serious?

Not to mention that it seemed like before he wrote Tim he figured "Well, I've only read the first few issues of Red Robin, but I'm sure the character hasn't changed at all"

I can see Yost's reaction now. 

Batgirl #9 isn't going to be part of this storyline is it? I hope not.


----------



## Rod (Mar 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> A Mystery is Afoot
> 
> god I LOVE THIS COMIC
> 
> ...



Imma about to read it in 15 mins.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 10, 2010)

Who is the fake Bruce Wayne B&R is always alluding to and why has no one dealt with him yet?

It seems like he's been running amok for months now.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 10, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Who is the fake Bruce Wayne B&R is always alluding to and why has no one dealt with him yet?
> 
> It seems like he's been running amok for months now.



You mean Thomas Elliot? You;ve confused me


----------



## Rod (Mar 10, 2010)

Hmm

Well this deserves a post in the future regarding the symbolysm, but just two things:

I suspect the book is The Lesser Key of Solomon, for various reasons that would require a wall of text.

“The constellation of *Orion*...”

^

Good one Morrison. Good one.

That's another one that deserves a wall, but it better to develop fully once the arc is over. And so can tie with all the rest back to 655 and Crisis.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Who is the fake Bruce Wayne B&R is always alluding to and why has no one dealt with him yet?
> 
> It seems like he's been running amok for months now.



It's Hush, he started out trying to ruin Grayson's funding by giving away all of Bruce Wayne's money, but they're somehow forcing him to do what they want now.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 11, 2010)

Rod said:


> “The constellation of *Orion*...”



I think the whole quote is more important

Orion
Burning Ships

etc

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe....."


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I think the whole quote is more important
> 
> Orion
> Burning Ships
> ...



Oberon Sexton is Decker!?


----------



## Rod (Mar 11, 2010)

It's fun, Oberon has an English style, he presents himself as "Sexton. Oberon Sexton", reminds James Bond, overall, brings up the previous Knight "supposedly" dead, besides, the description back there seems a variation of one of the origins from the joker of the the dark knight, or the killing joke.

Still that's all conjecture, I continue to stick he's Bruce Wayne.


----------



## Rod (Mar 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I think the whole quote is more important
> 
> Orion
> Burning Ships
> ...



I specially like Morrison brought that to the table, I think it fits nicely overall into the grand scheme of things.

However, prefer wait the upcoming issues before start breaking down everything, this to not jump the shark tho, I've to say specially suspect some parts are passively misleading people.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 11, 2010)

Tim and Steph deserve each other they are just about the same flavor of vanilla


this post may or may not be Windwaker bait, CAN YOU DECIDE?


----------



## Rod (Mar 11, 2010)

^

Yes. Batgirl & Red Robin. Black and red. 



oh wait... 

Too much Morrison reading.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Oberon Sexton is Decker!?


meh, he overwrites the dialogue boxes. but as long as he doesn't come with that artist...


----------



## Castiel (Mar 11, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Who is the fake Bruce Wayne B&R is always alluding to and why has no one dealt with him yet?
> 
> It seems like he's been running amok for months now.



Hush.  His Bruce obsession reached its peak and he had surgery to make him look like Bruce (Hush fixed Harvey Dent's face, so yeah he has the skill).

His initial plan was to basically bankrupt the company and skip town.  But Dick rounded up most of the heroes to put him under surveillance.  He gets carted around for public functions (with a heroic tail) and then gets put back under lock.

Mainly contained to Dini's books but he's appeared in pretty much all the Batbooks at some point.  Morrison is trying to be a team player (The reason why Penguin was at the meeting was because he was Black Mask's proxy)





Taleran said:


> Tim and Steph deserve each other they are just about the same flavor of vanilla



Vanilla is a vastly underrated flavor 


> this post may or may not be Windwaker bait, CAN YOU DECIDE?


I dun git eet


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Tim and Steph deserve each other they are just about the same flavor of vanilla
> 
> 
> this post may or may not be Windwaker bait, CAN YOU DECIDE?



Oh hai guyzzz, waz goin on!?!?!?

Anyways, why would Tim be with Steph? He obviously prefers chocolate. 

Also, Tim being involved with steph would probably result in Tim being in the batgirl book more, which is something that I'm not a big fan of.

Although on the up side it seems like Yost writes steph better than miller, so...

And @Kilo, I'm kind of a huge fan of Tim, and a fan of Steph due to Dixon (and nostalgiavision?)



Petes12 said:


> meh, he overwrites the dialogue boxes. but as long as he doesn't come with that artist...



I'm willing to give him a shot, although it kinda sucks because i'm actually liking Yost right now.

And To isn't terrible. Not great, but not god awful. Although I could just be saying this because I read RR right after Batgirl haha.


----------



## Rod (Mar 11, 2010)

Tbh they should bring back Cass and then we have a nice love triangle.

It'll be emotional story, how would it affect the love over a man who'll divide the two best friends Steph and Cass? What about the man's decision, who will own his heart? The two Batgirls, the fight for the love, the betray, the passion. Stay tuned for more.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2010)

I was talking about the last artist on robin, the guy who did human torch. I like To fine.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 11, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Oberon Sexton is Decker!?



This pleases me, I like him on Azrael.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 11, 2010)

Rod said:


> Tbh they should bring back Cass and then we have a nice love triangle.
> 
> It'll be emotional story, how would it affect the love over a man who'll divide the two best friends Steph and Cass? What about the man's decision, who will own his heart? The two Batgirls, the fight for the love, the betray, the passion. Stay tuned for more.



Cassandra and Tim. . . were never really involved.

The closest was a moment spurred on by disagreement back in the Fresh Blood storyline.

If there was anyway to reintroduce Cassandra Cain, it'd be herself or Barbara or Nightwing-as-Batman.

Heck, I wrote up a full story pitch on reintroducing Cassandra Cain back in the Comic thread I made here for her.


----------



## Rod (Mar 11, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Cassandra and Tim. . . were never really involved.



That's the easiest part. Add a little bit of alcohol.





lol.......................................................................


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 12, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Cassandra and Tim. . . were never really involved.
> 
> The closest was a moment spurred on by disagreement back in the Fresh Blood storyline.
> 
> ...



I can see Tim and Cass being bros, but that's it. Them being together romantically just seems...odd.

And I liked your story pitch CBG. You wanted to bring Cass more in to the martial arts universe of DC right?



Rod said:


> That's the easiest part. Add a little bit of alcohol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I want a Robin/Batgirl annual where Tim, Damian, Cass, and Steph all get wasted.

I'd like to think that Damian would be a very nice drunk, steph would be a really loopy drunk, and  Cass would be all over the place. Tim would probably end up being the responsible one.

Eventually someone would say something to Cass and she'd get pissed, and then they'd realize that getting one of the top martial artists in the DCU wasted is a very bad idea.

Tim would have to call in Conner to restrain her.

EDIT: Ha I always for get Cass (batgirl) and Conner had a thing. Of course, nobody cockblocks like the goddamn bat-dad. "Clark, call off your boy." "Wha? they can make their own decisions." "Tell him clark, tell him what I said."


----------



## Rod (Mar 12, 2010)

But buttttt butttt in all seriousness now.

I thought it was hinted they (Cass & Tim) started developing an attraction towards each other back there or am I reading too much? Of course stuff that ended up interrupted due various reasons.


----------



## Rod (Mar 12, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> I want a Robin/Batgirl annual where Tim, Damian, Cass, and Steph all get wasted.
> 
> I'd like to think that Damian would be a very nice drunk, steph would be a really loopy drunk, and  Cass would be all over the place. Tim would probably end up being the responsible one.
> 
> ...



And pregnant Steph the other day.


lol -__________________-"




> EDIT: Ha I always for get Cass (batgirl) and Conner had a thing. Of course, nobody cockblocks like the goddamn bat-dad. "Clark, call off your boy." "Wha? they can make their own decisions." "Tell him clark, tell him what I said."



Connor was indeed a fling/flirt Cass had (one of the first ones).


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 12, 2010)

Rod said:


> And pregnant Steph the other day.
> 
> 
> lol -__________________-"



Haha, I can see it now.

Steph: Tim, i'm pregnant, and YOU'RE THE FATHER!
Tim: Umm yeaaaa, I gotta go...find bruce wayne. Yea...that's it.
Steph: 



> Connor was indeed a fling/flirt Cass had (one of the first ones).



Yup. And then Batman called Clark down just for cockblocking purposes



Rod said:


> But buttttt butttt in all seriousness now.
> 
> I thought it was hinted they (Cass & Tim) started developing an attraction towards each other back there or am I reading too much? Of course stuff that ended up interrupted due various reasons.



They always just seemed like friends/colleagues to me. Also, Steph and Cass are pretty good friends iirc, so that's another reason why it'd be weird if it happened.


----------



## Rod (Mar 12, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Haha, I can see it now.
> 
> Steph: Tim, i'm pregnant, and YOU'RE THE FATHER!
> Tim: Umm yeaaaa, I gotta go...find bruce wayne. Yea...that's it.
> Steph:



Steph: Tim, i'm pregnant...
Tim: That again? When was that previous issue when you told very same stuff.
Steph: 
Tim: kitchen.
Steph: Ti...
Tim: sammich.
Steph: Tim you're bei....
Tim: ho, Don't worry Damian will make the test.
Steph: Tim how can you think, I can't beli....
Tim: for sure imma not falling for that before imma not now.
Tim: and hei make it 2 eggs. your especiality.
Steph: 


Tim: YEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHH





> Yup. And then Batman called Clark down just for cockblocking purposes



Batdickery at it's finest.



> They always just seemed like friends/colleagues to me. Also, Steph and Cass are pretty good friends iirc, so that's another reason why it'd be weird if it happened.



Hmm, bittersweeeeet.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 12, 2010)

Either that or they'd go onto the superhero version of Maury.

With Booster Gold presiding


----------



## Agmaster (Mar 12, 2010)

Booster!   Booster!  Skeets is the security guard just in case?


----------



## Rod (Mar 12, 2010)

*Bruce Wayne?*


----------



## shit (Mar 12, 2010)

> Steph:
> Tim: kitchen.
> Steph: Ti...
> Tim: sammich.



Ahhhhhhhhhh, I laugh.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 13, 2010)

Maybe it's the lack of a face but I really like that Finch cover.


Also finale of Daniel's Black Mask story arc




*Spoiler*: _Batman #697 preview_


----------



## Bender (Mar 13, 2010)

I hate Steph so damn much right now it ain't even funny.

How come she was granted the privilege of being featured in Batman post-modern main storylines when Cassandra wasn't.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 13, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Piece that Doesn't Fit_ 












*Spoiler*: _Wayne Became Hurt_


----------



## Rod (Mar 13, 2010)

This is what people have been assuming from the last chapter mainly, I'm eager expecting the next issue because have some stuff to point.


----------



## Bender (Mar 13, 2010)

Taleran said:


> *Spoiler*: _Piece that Doesn't Fit_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In R.I.P. Joker refers to Dr. Hurt as the devil 

and in the passages above it says he led a group of "devil worshippers" is that how he became well you know.. "the devil"?


----------



## Rod (Mar 13, 2010)

^

We'll see.

It's too risky to tell anything based on the B&R 10 alone, that's why I'm really careful to publish any stuff.

But there are ways it could've if and only if it's as obvious as it's looking (which I doubt), Thomas may've been possessed by the devil and or his body is still running due that or perhaps the devil exchanged hosts from times to times, likely being Mangroove Pierce's body now (as well as joe chill, joker, previously etc...).


----------



## Taleran (Mar 14, 2010)

In the play Midsummer Night's Dream, Oberon tells a myth about a White Pansy, in Final Crisis #7 that first flower that blooms in the Armaghetto in Apokolips is a White Pansy


----------



## mow (Mar 14, 2010)

This book.

This freaking book.

I swear I don't love anything more in this world as much as this book.


----------



## Bender (Mar 14, 2010)

^

Although this may be somewhat stretching it I'm going to jump on the Bruce is Sexton Oberon. When you rearrange Oberon it spells R-E-B-O-R-N.

Which was the slogan for Dick's transition to Batman some months ago.


----------



## Rod (Mar 14, 2010)

Where's the second "o" and ya got another "r" thar


----------



## Bender (Mar 14, 2010)

^

Oh shit I forgot...


----------



## Rod (Mar 15, 2010)

off the top of my head:

*Julie Madison
Shondra Kinsolving
Sasha Bourdeaux
Talia Al Ghul
Lois Lane
Vesper Fairchild
Zatanna Zatara
Silver St. Cloud
Selina Kyle
Vicki Vale
Jezebel Jet
Kathy Kane
Barbara Gordon
Pamela Isley
Julia Remarque
Rachel Caspian
Natalia Knight
Helena Bertinelli
Linda Page
Diana Prince
Jillian Maxwell
Dinah Lance
Lorna Shora
Andrea Beaumont
Kathy Duquesne
Bekka
*
26.
and counting.

​


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 15, 2010)

Rod said:


> off the top of my head:
> 
> Julie Madison
> Shondra Kinsolving
> ...



And hence, why Dick is so bitter in Animated.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 15, 2010)

Where would you guys rank the Issues of B&R that have come out so far

for me it would go

3>1>2>10>9>7>8>6>4>5


----------



## Bender (Mar 15, 2010)

Batman 700# cover


----------



## typhoon72 (Mar 15, 2010)

Taleran said:


> In the play Midsummer Night's Dream, Oberon tells a myth about a White Pansy, in Final Crisis #7 that first flower that blooms in the Armaghetto in Apokolips is a White Pansy



You guys are amazing...always catching these details.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 16, 2010)

Daniel to be the regular writer/artist for Batman (Winick is caught up in the plotting for Lost Generation)


He will not however be involved with Batman #700.  Morrison apparently loved working with him so much he put aside a few things just for him.


----------



## Rod (Mar 16, 2010)

I think it'll be same stuff as WW, traditional artisits/writers will be doing each a part of the issue.

As WW, George Perez will do 7 pages for examples, Gail said was wirtiing only a part of it too etc...


----------



## Castiel (Mar 16, 2010)

So what do you think Morrison has planned for Daniel?

an issue of Return of Bruce Wayne is kind of a given since he was Grant's longest collaborator on Batman.  But which issue, I'm gonna take a wild guess and go with either the Noir or final issues.

but he said "a couple" and didn't say they were all Batman, so I'm gonna take another wild stab and guess the other thing he has planned is maybe an issue of Multiversity?


----------



## Rod (Mar 16, 2010)

On the #700:

I'm gonna take a guess; (if 3 only then discard the fourth name)

*Writers:*

Grant Morrison
Frank Miller
Neil Gaiman
insert one of the 5 here: (Denny O'neil, Alan Moore, Greg Rucka, Chuck Dixon, Alan Grant)

*Artists:*

Brian Bolland
Neal Adams
Jim Lee
Andy Kubert

On the Morrison work:

I think he is refering to issues of B&R and these being the ones with most symbolyc meaning for Grant's plans.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 16, 2010)

moore and dixon are not going to happen. ever.

Miller, Adams, Bolland and Kubert are highly unlikely

also Daniel said special issues, if it was B&R he'd just say so


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 16, 2010)

Does it look like Bruce'll be back by 700 or are they using it as the big climax of his return or anything?


----------



## Bender (Mar 16, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Does it look like Bruce'll be back by 700 or are they using it as the big climax of his return or anything?



I dunno. For some reason I can't see them re-introducing Bruce till summer, when "the return of Bruce Wayne" series.


----------



## Rod (Mar 16, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> moore and dixon are not going to happen. ever.
> 
> Miller, Adams, Bolland and Kubert are highly unlikely
> 
> also Daniel said special issues, if it was B&R he'd just say so



Hi I thought Perez in WW was like "woot" too. 

For some reason I think it's the new B&R Grant decided to extend.

Or even 700, in this case he meant just that he wasn't going to write it etc...


----------



## Rod (Mar 17, 2010)

THEN BAM. ASS SHOT!


----------



## mow (Mar 17, 2010)

what the deuce? where's that from? XD


----------



## Castiel (Mar 17, 2010)

All-Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder hardcover



also Kate Kane is getting her own book :WOW


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Mar 17, 2010)

The Veil of the FC has fallen begun the Spirit War it has


----------



## Taleran (Mar 17, 2010)

Guess who is writing this New start for a not new member of the bat family?



*Spoiler*: _CBG avert thine eyes_ 




If that didn't give it away its Beechan


----------



## Rod (Mar 17, 2010)

^



Gonna be epic. :rofl


----------



## Agmaster (Mar 17, 2010)

Rod said:


> THEN BAM. ASS SHOT!



Uh wha?  The curtain over creativity is lfited!


----------



## Castiel (Mar 17, 2010)

*Red Hood: The Lost Days* by Judd Winick and Pablo Raimondi.  Will fill in the blanks in Batman Annual #25


fucking finally, Jason has not been in any good stories since Winick stopped writing him.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 17, 2010)




----------



## Castiel (Mar 17, 2010)

Totally saw the identity of Black Mask coming.


I am definitely looking forward to the grand finale of David Hine's Arkham story in 'tec now more than ever.


----------



## Bender (Mar 17, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> *Red Hood: The Lost Days* by Judd Winick and Pablo Raimondi.  Will fill in the blanks in Batman Annual #25
> 
> 
> fucking finally, Jason has not been in any good stories since Winick stopped writing him.



Hopefully, when Bruce comes back we'll be able to see Jason Tim Dick Cassandra Stephanie as well as Barbara together.  

I want Jason to go back to his original costume. 

The Jason in GM's Batman & Robin looked like a Super Sentai villain on crack. :33 





And I hated the shit out of it.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 17, 2010)

Black Mask is. . . not a surprise.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 17, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Guess who is writing this New start for a not new member of the bat family?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _CBG avert thine eyes_
> ...





Taleran said:


> If that didn't give it away its *Beechan*





Taleran said:


> If that didn't give it away its *Beechan*





Taleran said:


> If that didn't give it away its *Beechan*





Taleran said:


> If that didn't give it away its *Beechan*





Taleran said:


> If that didn't give it away its *Beechan*


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 17, 2010)

IT'S OK GUYS he's no stranger to animated characters cus he wrote for 'The Batman'.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 17, 2010)

Also who wants to bet the murderer is Bruce Wayne assassinating people with guitars?


----------



## Rod (Mar 17, 2010)

^

Too much for today.


----------



## typhoon72 (Mar 17, 2010)

Black Mask being who he was, wasnt a suprise. But, I shoulda known...

Figures you guys would have known.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 18, 2010)

yeah, it's more unschway than I ever imagined.  : /


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

To be honest I made the assumption based on an upcoming 'tec solicit (the one for the finale of Hine's Arkham story)


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

Well, supposedly as Tony said the story left the hints for readers to discover with accuracy who it was, in this case a bit too clear but still somewhat nice nonetheless, sometimes writers prefer in these only to reveal in last moments without give the opportunity for the Joes like us to figure it out first.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

What I want to know is if Daniel came up with it and Hine had to explain it or if they loved Hine's BftC one-shot and made him BM


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

Pretty cool Jim Lee art:



No. This is the BB art guy Ryan Benjamin.

Channeling much?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

there are truckloads of Lee impersonators out there


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> What I want to know is if Daniel came up with it and Hine had to explain it or if they loved Hine's BftC one-shot and made him BM



Not only that but the idea, of the _"it's not over yet xaxa!!!!1111oneonoen, there's someone bigger in the scale controlling everything!!!!!!"_ which is kinda of overused but still quite sometime we didn't see it around so was refreshing and somewhat humorous to pass by it again.


Ah and the Grayson USB stick lol.


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

Btw:



> Ugh, you know I don't like to fanboy out. I try my best not to. But seriously, DC? How could you fuck this up worse? 2 of the worst guys at DC on one of the best characters to spin out of DC. WHY?!
> 
> First Beechan, the guy simply doesn't get teenagers. He thinks all teenagers are whiny angsty idiots that can do nothing right and are incompetent morons. His work on Teen Titans made me want to beat my brains out with a hammer it was so horrendous. And his retcon of Batgirl? Even worse. Don't even get me started on that bullshit.
> 
> ...



^

CBG, tell me, truth, is this you here, no?


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 18, 2010)

Never forget.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 18, 2010)

Rod said:


> Btw:
> 
> ^
> 
> CBG, tell me, truth, is this you here, no?



Nope, for 2 reasons:

1) I tried joining the DC Message Boards, but I somehow can't. I get this weird message that says I have to be in the US to join.

2) I'd spell Beechen right, at least.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

Rod said:


> Not only that but the idea, of the _"it's not over yet xaxa!!!!1111oneonoen, there's someone bigger in the scale controlling everything!!!!!!"_ which is kinda of overused but still quite sometime we didn't see it around so was refreshing and somewhat humorous to pass by it again.
> 
> 
> Ah and the Grayson USB stick lol.






According to solicits, the finale of Hine's story will deal with BM and Arkham fighting it out for control.

Unless you mean, who was it that "woke up" the Black Mask within Arkham?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

We knew this already but DC confirms Frazer Irving after Andy Clarke



also the line up for Return of Bruce Wayne is announced


Caveman - Chris Sprouse
Puritan - Frazer Irving
Pirate - Yanick Paquette
Cowboy - Cameron Stewart
Noir - Ryan Sook
Modern - Lee Garbett

All very solid choices.


so Daniel is not among them, ok now I'm curious what he's working on with Morrison.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 18, 2010)

Variant Cover


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

^

Dude, this reminds someone, but for some reason I'm not getting to associate instantly, damn who it is............



Kilowog said:


> According to solicits, the finale of Hine's story will deal with BM and Arkham fighting it out for control.
> 
> Unless you mean, who was it that "woke up" the Black Mask within Arkham?



More likely, who is the big boss afterall?

I'd say Dick will play with that.


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> We knew this already but DC confirms Frazer Irving after Andy Clarke
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I stick to B&R or 700 just art.



Comic Book Guy said:


> Nope, for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1) I tried joining the DC Message Boards, but I somehow can't. I get this weird message that says I have to be in the US to join.
> 
> 2) I'd spell Beechen right, at least.



Per country now? 

Well I've to say you're not missing too much, anyways.

Beechan is quite a funny sound tho.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

Beechen interviews

also Beechen did write the Zur-En-Arhh episode...


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

I doubt the very last phrase will fix CBG.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 18, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> *Red Hood: The Lost Days* by Judd Winick and Pablo Raimondi.  Will fill in the blanks in Batman Annual #25
> 
> 
> fucking finally, Jason has not been in any good stories since Winick stopped writing him.


 I think if BFTC or the B&R arc were longer they would've been soooooo much better.




Petes12 said:


> IT'S OK GUYS he's no stranger to animated characters cus he wrote for 'The Batman'.


You tryin to imply something their boy?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

Probably, but Winick was the only one who seemed to have even the remotest idea what Jason' methods and motives were.  Daniel obviously had no idea how to write him and Morrison was working on very little to begin with.

I mean just imagine if Brubaker was taken off Cap after the first arc, just think what would have happened with Bucky.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 18, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I think if BFTC



no just no that stuff was the definition of pointless


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

yes it was.  But as I've said many times I don't hold it against Daniel.  Every single writer essentially walked up to him asked him to plant seeds for the future then promptly went on about their business.  Seriously everything in the book was either filler or a set up for one of the ongoings.  (BftC's Jason is absolutely nothing like Winick's but is similar to Morrison's, death of the DA, Black Mask, Two-Face, etc.)

I doubt even the best writer could shine under those circumstances, and Daniel was essentially a first timer (only real writing he'd done before that was The Tenth, his so-so Image title)


neat art though, so at least it wasn't a total loss.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 18, 2010)

Taleran said:


> no just no that stuff was the definition of pointless



Not if they had done the smart thing, which was make it an actual battle. Dick and Tim the "Good Sons" vs. Jason and Damian "The Misguided Sons". Two different Dynamic Duos at the same time. Besides, I think Damian would logically go with Jason over Dick at that point tbh.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

Anyone remember that scene from Under The Hood where Jason essentially rants about how he considers what he would eventually do in BftC and B&R retarded?


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

I'm always at suspicion that Jason and Damian are essentially serving for a purpose Morrison has, serioulsy do not picture them just being reverted back simply by sport.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 18, 2010)

Well and the Battle didn't really have any suspense because Morrison was going to be using Richard as he clearly stated in #666 so if Grant was still involved with Batman the ending was decided 




> Not if they had done the smart thing, which was make it an actual battle. Dick and Tim the "Good Sons" vs. Jason and Damian "The Misguided Sons". Two different Dynamic Duos at the same time. Besides, I think Damian would logically go with Jason over Dick at that point tbh.



I don't think so, Jason and Damian would fall out so fast and I don't think Tim and Dick would make a good combination as Batman & Robin


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

> Well and the Battle didn't really have any suspense because Morrison was going to be using Richard as he clearly stated in #666 so if Grant was still involved with Batman the ending was decided


Morrison's kind of the lazy in the fact that he doesn' like explaining things.  If they'd let him I'm sure he'd pull off a crazy timeskip and never explain why certain characters are dead or alive just to get to the story he wants to tell.



> I don't think so, Jason and Damian would fall out so fast and I don't think Tim and Dick would make a good combination as Batman & Robin


Agreed.

Jason and Damian are too similar, they'd never get along.  Dick works because to Damian he's weird and unpredictable, also the whole "first son" thing


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 18, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I don't think so, Jason and Damian would fall out so fast and I don't think Tim and Dick would make a good combination as Batman & Robin





Kilowog said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Jason and Damian are too similar, they'd never get along.  Dick works because to Damian he's weird and unpredictable, also the whole "first son" thing



Sure, if they were going to be an entire series instead of a simple 3-4 issue arc like I'm talking about. And of course it would still end with Damian not joining with Jason for the long run, but that'd be after they fell out. I mean come on, if your Damian, would you join up with the guy who doesn't seem to go far enough (Dick) or the guy who'll shoot a mugger in the fucking face like Jason?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

you're confused, Morrison's Jason shot a _cop_ in the back of the head


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

What puts him beyond redemption. A hint, imo.

And that kiss with Talia perhaps may relate things.


----------



## Bender (Mar 18, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Jason and Damian are too similar, they'd never get along.  Dick works because to Damian he's weird and unpredictable, also the whole "first son" thing



Not to mention Jason shot Damian twice.  First time in Battle for the Cowl and a second in B&R. I doubt he'd be all buddy, buddy with the dude who had him go through extensive surgery twice in a row.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

David Hine talks about the Black Mask reveal


----------



## Bender (Mar 18, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> David Hine talks about the Black Mask reveal



I haven't purchased any of the Arkham Reborn comics but tell me is bits of his origin story in "Batman Arkham Asylum" graphic novel written by Grant Morrison cannon?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

you're confusing Amadeus and Jeremiah


----------



## still Mo (Mar 18, 2010)

Tony S. Daniel... bravo.


----------



## Bender (Mar 18, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> you're confusing Amadeus and Jeremiah



Dammit 

Btw

now that we know who Black Mask is 

who do you think is the cooler Black Mask?

The first or second?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 18, 2010)

first fed a woman her husband's eyes


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 18, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> first fed a woman her husband's eyes



ThisThisThisThis


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

This one got binned.

Rip.

:0


----------



## Bender (Mar 18, 2010)

^

Content from WMG who  has been blocked it on grounds of Copyright


----------



## Rod (Mar 18, 2010)

lol woot I cna hear okay here :0

Edit: ok, Imma downloaded that shit and gonna reupload in another place, it's justt oo epic only few.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2010)

JMS to write comic about Hospital workers in Gotham City.

This could be really interesting in a Gotham Central meets ER sort of way.


----------



## Rod (Mar 19, 2010)

I drive a F1 racing sim game with the goddamn Batmobile instead.



Beat me, bitches.



Kilowog said:


> JMS to write comic about Hospital workers in Gotham City.
> 
> This could be really interesting in a Gotham Central meets ER sort of way.



JMS... Involved in all the 3 verses now, and he had only quite a handful comics until then.

This idea is very attractive to me, and interesting with freedom to modify and status quo definitely this could very well end up having alot of readers.

Hopefully no heroes, neither someone that end up turning into due some mysterious reason, it's all about pov from commom ppl.


----------



## Rod (Mar 19, 2010)

Hi.

Definition of epicness in 34 secs.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 19, 2010)

Who is that?  Shirley Walker?  Danny Elfman?


----------



## Rod (Mar 19, 2010)

June 2010 Batman solicits (bloody shit said:
			
		

> T*HE JOKER’S ASYLUM
> ONE-SHOTS • RIDDLER on sale JUNE 2 • HARLEY QUINN on sale JUNE 9 • MAD HATTER on sale JUNE 16
> KILLER CROC on sale JUNE 23 • CLAYFACE on sale JUNE 30 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> THE JOKER’S ASYLUM: THE RIDDLER #1 • Written by PETER CALLOWAY • Art by CLAYTON HENRY • Cover by ETHAN VAN SCIVER
> ...





Rod said:


> On the #700:
> 
> I'm gonna take a guess; (if 3 only then discard the fourth name)
> 
> ...







ghstwrld said:


> Who is that?  Shirley Walker?  Danny Elfman?



Elfman.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2010)

O'Neil was always obvious, unlike most of the guys you mentioned he isn't doing anything else or involved in a death feud with DC


----------



## Rod (Mar 19, 2010)

Don't kill the mood, Kilo. U.u

Besides, #700 is still top secret, should be arriving also by June, in thesis.


----------



## still Mo (Mar 19, 2010)

Rod said:


> Originally Posted by  June 2010 Batman solicits (bloody shit, prepare your walletlimited hard drive space


fix'd 


> *THE JOKER’S ASYLUM (2 Electric Boogaloo)*


I loved all of these last time. Looking forward to 'em :33



> *BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #3*


Eh... I'm just not into this. 



> *RED HOOD: LOST DAYS #1*
> On sale JUNE 2 • 1 of 6 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by JUDD WINICK • Art by PABLO RAIMONDI • Cover by FRANCESCO MATTINA
> 1:25 variant cover by BILLY TUCCI
> ...


YES!!!!!



> *BATMAN BEYOND #1*


Don't care



> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #13*
> On sale JUNE 2 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> Art by FRAZER IRVING
> ...


.
Hope they mean The Joker, cause I don't give a flying flip about... The Black Glove-Devil-Wayne. >_>



> *DETECTIVE COMICS #866*
> On sale JUNE 23 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by DENNIS O’NEIL
> Art and cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
> ...


No Batwoman?! 


> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #13*


This book sucks.



> *BATGIRL #11*


Without the other Bat-characters in support, this book also sucks.



> *RED ROBIN #13*
> On sale JUNE 2 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by FABIAN NICIEZA
> Art and cover by MARCUS TO & RAY MCCARTHY
> Fabian Nicieza joins RED ROBIN as the new regular writer! A surge of organized mobs spreads across Gotham City like a virus! Who are The Socials and what is their mysterious agenda in moving young people across the city in self-organizing crowds? Is it mind-control or simply youth boredom? What starts as fun and games becomes deadly serious and leads to an unexpected confrontation between Red Robin and Robin!


YES!!!!



> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #13*


This book sucks. 



> *OUTSIDERS #31*


>_>



> *AZRAEL #9*


I don't read this.



> *BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL #45*


I don't read this


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2010)

I'd be curious of your thoughts on Azrael, Michael's military background and experience in the middle east are the series' backbone


----------



## Rod (Mar 19, 2010)

Now that you mention Azrael, what about a JPV rezz at BN, ehh?


----------



## still Mo (Mar 19, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> I'd be curious of your thoughts on Azrael, Michael's military background and experience in the middle east are the series' backbone



I was waiting for the first arc to finish before reading. Has it?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2010)

there are no "arcs".  Whole series has been done-in-ones.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 19, 2010)

Ohhhhhhhhhhh... I guess I'll be checking it out right now.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2010)

covers for solicits can be found here




man does the B&R solicit just sound fucking insane.


also Streets of Gotham solicit really intrigues me


----------



## Bender (Mar 19, 2010)

> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #13*





			
				still mo said:
			
		

> This book sucks.



HOW DARE YOU! 

The progress of that series @ the moment doing spectacularly well.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2010)

regardless of what everyone feels about the Beechen mini, I think this at least we can guarantee will be cool





> *SUPERMAN/BATMAN ANNUAL #4
> On sale JUNE 2 * 56 pg, FC $4.99 US
> Written by PAUL LEVITZ
> Art by RENATO GUEDES & JOSE WILSON
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 19, 2010)

I'm pretty sure it will be, but (besides the costume) I'm just not a fan of batman beyond Also, that cover makes the costume look lame.





Blaze of Glory said:


> HOW DARE YOU!
> 
> The progress of that series @ the moment doing spectacularly well.



ZOMG you should totally neg that guy.


----------



## Bender (Mar 19, 2010)

I never did like Batman Beyond

Shit, was too similar to (in my opinion) shitty Ultimate Spider-man series.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2010)

I will do everything in my power to get you banned


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 19, 2010)

There was an Ultimate Spider-Man series? 

Wait, yeah, it was! That crap came on MTV (I think) and lasted for like 6 episodes.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 19, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> I'd be curious of your thoughts on Azrael, Michael's military background and experience in the middle east are the series' backbone


I just read Azreal 6. I enjoyed it.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 19, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> I will do everything in my power to get you banned



You can't straight up ban him with your mod powers?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 19, 2010)

mod stands for moderator you goon.

As in in a discusion.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Mar 19, 2010)

I thought mod stood for Mercenary Of Destruction... What a letdown.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeah Admins (Administrators) worry about keeping the board running, you know updating code and dealing with major changes.  Moderators moderate individual boards so they worry about bigger things.


It's the reason why Washington D.C. elects its own Mayor and City Council despite you know, being Washington fucking D.C.  Barack has bigger shit to deal with.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 20, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> I'm pretty sure it will be, but (besides the costume) I'm just not a fan of batman beyond Also, that cover makes the costume look lame.



com'n what wasn't there to love about the series?  but I will definitely give you that the costume does not go well with anything other than a cartoony style

also I just kind of love this

[YOUTUBE]DVdTbiLku48[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 20, 2010)

Okay that is a pretty epic intro.

Almost as epic as the original TAS one.


----------



## Bender (Mar 20, 2010)

@ Kilowog

Truth hurt don't it cookie :ho

@ Pete12

I have Joker immunity from banning

Batman Beyond was too much of a teeny bopper show for me to enjoy it, and mixing it with Batman thoroughly disgusted me.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 20, 2010)

Too teenybopper?  How so?


[YOUTUBE]FlobFExM-UM[/YOUTUBE]

Better version.


----------



## Bender (Mar 20, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Too teenybopper?  How so?



Teen superhero schedule

7:00 AM Go 2 to skool

12:00 AM Kicking bad guy butt

2:00 PM Hang out with girlfriend for a while

3-7 PM Superhero watch out

And much much more crap that doesn't fit in the Batman series.

Far too Teen hero queer shit. 


Batman is a symbol of fear and darkness.

While Terry Mcginnis is a symbol of homework ,15-year old James Bond with  a 2-inch dick along with pummeling enemies till' they him where his girlfriend is, how to work a machine, along with using Anime delinquent yankee tactics. 

Not that I don't think their ideas were interesting.  

But it would've been more interesting had it been with Superman's. 

Seeing the king of heroes of Anti-heroes mantle be passed to a delinquent is too vexingly shallow. 



> Better version.



It still fails.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 21, 2010)

lol, whut?

Bruce Wayne's schedule is largely the same - he even has the babysitting bit listed, but with middle-aged equivalents.  Er, actually, scratch that.  His is more frivolous because he has the whole billionaire doofus playboy shtick to contend with.

And his personal life spills over into his crime-fighting all the time too, so there's no breach of convention in that regard either.  The same goes for Batman relying on technology.

Hm. How much of BB have you actually watched?


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 21, 2010)

Plus, in all of your posts declaring undying love for TDK, you've never mentioned anything about R&D Batman being a problem.


----------



## Bender (Mar 21, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> lol, whut?
> 
> Bruce Wayne's schedule is largely the same - he even has the babysitting bit listed, but with middle-aged equivalents.  Er, actually, scratch that.  His is more frivolous because he has the whole billionaire doofus playboy shtick to contend with.



Yeah, but there's the difference Terry is much more complicated emo teen thing working out. Also the egg episode which he brought his homework to his job. Also the dynomutt- err.. Ace the crime dog by his side. As I said before all that could've been compiled into an excellent future Superman series. Terry's friends doing drugs...and him having to fight or save them.



> And his personal life spills over into his crime-fighting all the time too, so there's no breach of convention in that regard either.  The same goes for Batman relying on technology.



I'm speaking of homework lying to girlfriend and mixing it into his crime-fighting life. Ya don't see Bruce doing a report on parenting.....Nor fighting like a delinquent and taunting his foes or having any deep connection with them like he does with The Joker or shit any of his rogues gallery.



> Hm. How much of BB have you actually watched?



I've watched all of them.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 21, 2010)

I'm sorry, what?

Bruce's crime-fighting and personal life are just as incestuous: there's Damian, you know, his son with the daughter of the ultimate criminal mastermind; baby mama drama; girlfriends: in the case of Jezebel Jet, he lies to her and creates alibis to evade her too; Thomas Wayne/Hurt and all of that mess; Catwoman, his sometimes lover; Hush, his childhood friend that takes his face and replaces him; adoptive children; and so on and so forth.


----------



## Bender (Mar 21, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Bruce's crime-fighting and personal life are just as incestuous: there's Damian, you know, his son with the daughter of the ultimate criminal mastermind; baby mama drama; girlfriends: in the case of Jezebel Jet, he lies to her and creates alibis to evade her too; Thomas Wayne/Hurt and all of that mess; Catwoman, his sometimes lover; Hush, his childhood friend that takes his face and replaces him; adoptive children; and so on and so forth.



Regardless having a brash teen delinquent take his place as king of anti-heroes is just plain sour decision.

The problem I have with Terry is the same problem I have with Dick as Batman. He lacked all of the same lovable features as the original Batman. Too technological and relying on futuristic equipment to get do sleuthing. Lack of interesting side-kicks.


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 21, 2010)

Batman in the future was a  great cartoon. It combined superb turn of the century art, with the dark overindustrialized grimness of future that overwhelmed everyone in the early 00's, while contemplating the inevitability of the crashes all the madness batman's life and villans are bound to hit, and  while still sticking to all the guns batman stood for.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 21, 2010)

Blaze, most of your specific complaints are featured in TDK, especially R&D Batman, and you love that movie.

As far as sidekicks go, Bruce (!), Babs (!), Max Gibson, and Ace are totally rad. The one-off team-ups, like with his Justice League, are cool too.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 21, 2010)

I only liked Terry in that JLU episode


----------



## Rod (Mar 21, 2010)

Interestingly about BB is that Bruce was married for 30 years, tho it wasn't revealed with who the fuck it was nor what the fuck happened to her, however, that most likely delusion is prolly one of the reasons why he is  so bitter and  happened to expel everyone from his life at some point.


----------



## Bender (Mar 21, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I only liked Terry in that JLU episode



Ditto


----------



## Taleran (Mar 22, 2010)




----------



## Taleran (Mar 22, 2010)

*BATMAN #700
On sale JUNE 9
56 pg, FC, $4.99 US
Written by GRANT MORRISON
Art by TONY DANIEL, ANDY KUBERT & FRANK QUITELY
Cover by DAVID FINCH
1:25 “DC 75th Anniversary” variant cover by MIKE MIGNOLA
1:75 “DC 75th Anniversary” variant black and white cover by MIKE MIGNOLA
Grant Morrison returns to BATMAN with this oversized special! And he’s brought an all-star roster of artists along with him including Andy Kubert, Tony Daniel and Frank Quitely to celebrate this milestone 700th issue featuring stories spotlighting each of the Batmen from different eras – Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson and Damian Wayne. You won’t want to miss this blockbuster story that paves the way for the return of Bruce Wayne and sports mind-boggling covers by superstars David Finch (BRIGHTEST DAY) and Mike Mignola (BATMAN: GOTHAM BY GASLIGHT, Hellboy)!
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with three covers. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.*


BEST
ISSUE
EVER


----------



## Rod (Mar 22, 2010)

YEahhhHAHhahahaha.

So i guessed right about Tony Daniel refering of doing art (and Kubert for the record ) but not writting with Gran being responsible for, however guessed wrong in the other half.

But Damian Batman seems kinda force in my opinion to appear already as a "classic" edition, unless obviously more than just a homage this is meaningful to the events.

Now I'm gonna guess Tony Daniel will do B&R #16


----------



## Taleran (Mar 22, 2010)

They are giving each artist a different Batman, it works for me


----------



## Rod (Mar 22, 2010)

This issue (700) tends to be more important for the grand scheme of things, or the detective comics would represent a somewhat repeat in part of it.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 22, 2010)

so methinks Daniel will be doing the main story, most likely about Dick.

with Kubert (busy at his dad's school) and Quitely ("injury") doing shorts since they don't have the time Daniel does


----------



## Taleran (Mar 22, 2010)

Really? I was thinking they'd give each artist the Batman they have done the story for

Tony = Bruce
Frank = Dick
Andy = Damian


----------



## Rod (Mar 22, 2010)

^

Thought by the same way too.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 22, 2010)

Daniel is definitely going to do the main story, it just remains to be seen if its about Dick or Bruce.


----------



## Rod (Mar 22, 2010)

It'll be full of symbolysm I suspect, regardless.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 22, 2010)

At least Morrison is writing it.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 24, 2010)

Early sketches


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 25, 2010)

I want more on the noir-detective Batman.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 25, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I want more on the noir-detective Batman.



This times a bajillion.

Definitely the one i'm looking forward to the most. The noir era and batman are two things that just go amazing together.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Once again Damian makes me lol, in streets of gotham this time


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 25, 2010)

Zsasz > Damian?

Really?


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Yeah I dunno if there will be a good explanation for that or if Dini just wanted to hype up zsasz and did something dumb. But I didn't really care either.

btw that Manhunter artist is really good, whoever it is.


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 25, 2010)




----------



## Taleran (Mar 29, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Preview Time_


----------



## Castiel (Mar 29, 2010)

I've always liked Sprouse, he really is a great choice for the Prehistoric issue.

Klarion made Irving the obvious choice for the Puritan era.

Garbett draws the most natural, traditional yet contemporary Batman so he's a good choice for the modern day one.

Stewart and Sook are interesting choices for their issues but still looking forward to them.

unsold on Paquette doing the pirates one.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 29, 2010)

Winick interview.  Most of its about Jason Todd


----------



## Bender (Mar 29, 2010)

^

You don't like Jason Todd


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 29, 2010)

Better question is, who likes Jason Todd?

He's no Winter Soldier or Bucky post-Winter Soldier or Cap Bucky.


----------



## Bender (Mar 29, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Better question is, who likes Jason Todd?



He has a pretty loyal fanbase 

It's the writers that be fucking him up and down Gotham city. 

I mean c'mon his first re-entry into DC comics Under the Red Hood was pretty yeah? 

I mean so long as you pay attention to his guns then the bullshit he can be pretty fun.

For instance when he clashed with Dick. 



That was a pretty fun brief fight wouldn't ya say.  





			
				Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> He's no Winter Soldier or Bucky post-Winter Soldier or Cap Bucky.




I prefer the label "Punisher baaaaaaaaaaaaaw version".


----------



## Castiel (Mar 29, 2010)

I like _Winick's_ Jason Todd.  Under The Hood was a great story.

But he's the only guy to get him right.  Nightwing OYL was a crime against humanity, same with Countdown, he was only in Robin and BftC because of Morrison and Morrison fell just a bit flat with him.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Mar 30, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Better question is, who likes Jason Todd?
> 
> He's no Winter Soldier or Bucky post-Winter Soldier or Cap Bucky.



I Do


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 30, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> I like _Winick's_ Jason Todd.  Under The Hood was a great story.
> 
> But he's the only guy to get him right.  Nightwing OYL was a crime against humanity, same with Countdown, he was only in Robin and BftC because of Morrison and Morrison fell just a bit flat with him.



This.

He was awful as the gatman (shooting a kid just to escape, really?) and in B & R he was just kinda pathetic.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 30, 2010)

Actually I dont think Morrison had anything to do with him being in BftC.


----------



## Bender (Mar 30, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> I like _Winick's_ Jason Todd.  Under The Hood was a great story.



Yes, it was.  



> But he's the only guy to get him right.  Nightwing OYL was a crime against humanity, same with Countdown,



Thank god, everyone here knows to run the fuck away from Countdown 







RIGHT? 



> he was only in Robin and BftC because of Morrison and Morrison fell just a bit flat with him.



Well next to Cassandra Cain Batgirl Jason Todd isn't exactly in his top 3 characters to write.

If I recall correctly, he thinks of Cassandra Cain as "The Karate kid" and Jason is an irredeemable psychopath. So he thought badly writing him wouldn't matter. Know what Morrison? 








IT DOES


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 30, 2010)

He is psycho. Dude's a bad guy, even by Winnick's interpretation. I think Morrison's version was a very Morrison take on him but still rang true to who Todd is. The problem with that arc was more the art than anything.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 30, 2010)

revisiting the 2nd arc in Batman and Robin, Todd is a bit underwhelming but the overall story really does lend itself to rereads.  Although the art is probably the biggest detractor


----------



## Castiel (Mar 30, 2010)

Daniel was not a real writer, everything he did in BftC was to set up plotlines by the other writers.

Also yeah Jason is a psycho I mean he walked around with a bag full of severed heads.  At best he's an anti-hero along the lines of the Punisher, but that's the most heroic he's gotten


----------



## Castiel (Mar 30, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #863 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Mar 31, 2010)

another Winick interview


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 31, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Daniel was not a real writer, everything he did in BftC was to set up plotlines by the other writers.



Not really for Morrison though. I mean, logically you don't want 2 back to back depictions of the same character that are so completely different. And I remember reading Morrison basically said "ok make Dick Batman and Damian Robin for me, I want to skip that part" and the rest of BftC was up to everyone else.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 31, 2010)

I still wish I could write Cassandra Cain.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 1, 2010)

Nicieza on Red Robin


----------



## Bender (Apr 1, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I still wish I could write Cassandra Cain.



On DC comics forums the creators are sayinghow they're surprised by the good sales of Stephanie Brown's Batgirl series. 



Sure why not

Steph Batgirl series sell chart is behind titles like Cass Series, GA/BC, Sirens and etc...
... It is already behind Cass average sell per book, and behind The Cure and Batgirl YO, average sell per book.
If it keep dropping like that, soon it will cross BOP average line and soon will cross the lowest Batgirl book ever sold (25k line).... something that never happened to Cass Series. All books from Cass series(70+ books) sold above 25k.

I hope he can explain the double standards when the 25k line is crossed ... and instead of cancelling it, like he did with Cass, he keeps his book up.

51.670
40.592
36.989
34.681
32.482
30.403
29.524


If you want give me a  reply to this piece of information and I'll post it on DC comic message boards.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 1, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Nicieza on Red Robin



I just went from 6 to midnight.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 2, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> On DC comics forums the creators are sayinghow they're surprised by the good sales of Stephanie Brown's Batgirl series.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Go ahead if you want.

The only poster I want to thrash there is bathulk, the jplaya2023 of a Cassandra Cain fan. But I can't sign up the DC Message boards, for some bloody reason.


----------



## Bender (Apr 2, 2010)

^

Why what's he say about Cassandra Cain?


----------



## neodragzero (Apr 2, 2010)

Which do you guys think is better, Final Crisis or Blackest Night? Strictly the actual main books because adding GLC to the equation is not fair...


Blaze of Glory said:


> On DC comics forums the creators are sayinghow they're surprised by the good sales of Stephanie Brown's Batgirl series.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm surprised anyone buys it at all...


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 2, 2010)

neodragzero said:


> Strictly the actual main books because adding GLC to the equation is not fair...



the FC tie ins were pretty excellent.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 2, 2010)

Final Crisis, easy.


----------



## Bender (Apr 2, 2010)

^

Yup 

I also liked the Supergirl vs. Mary Marvel fight


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 2, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> ^
> 
> Why what's he say about Cassandra Cain?



He thinks Adam Beechen's work on Cassandra Cain is the best, and that he takes the character in an exciting new direction that's best for her.

What makes it far worst is that he posts and argues that as jplaya2023 would.

. . .

. . .

. . .

. . .

. . .

. . .

*WHICH PISSES ME THE BLOODY FUCK OFF LIKE NO TOMORROW.*


----------



## Slice (Apr 2, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> He thinks Adam Beechen's work on Cassandra Cain is the best, and that he takes the character in an exciting new direction that's best for her.
> 
> What makes it far worst is that he posts and argues that as jplaya2023 would.



So he says Galactus would not be able to defeat Cassandra? Not even with his strongest can(n)on?

(sorry could not resist)





Seriously, saying that Beechens "work" on Cass was the best should be considered a crime.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 2, 2010)

back from WonderCon

Jim Lee says All-Star Batman & Robin The Boy Wonder is back on track.

renamed to *Dark Knight: Boy Wonder* and is now officially a prequel to DKR.  Will run monthly in February 2011


----------



## Bender (Apr 2, 2010)

GOOD NEWS FOLKS


GOOOOOOD NEWS!



 GOOOOOOOD NEWS


CASSANDRA CAIN RETURNS 



And in red Robin




Can I get a hell yeah?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 2, 2010)

Also Johns said he could not talk about any possible connections between Darkseid and Nekron.  Which makes me think that either Morrison ain't done with Big D or that he'll have a minor role in Brightest Day.  But I'm gonna go with the former given the way Johns phrased his response.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 2, 2010)

I luv me some All Star Batman and Robin


----------



## Taleran (Apr 2, 2010)

> During his spotlight panel at Wondercon, moderated by our own Laura Hudson, Greg Rucka dropped a bombshell. He has been out of exclusive with DC Comics for three years, despite spending those three years working exclusively with DC, and his time with them is over. He just turned in the last of his DC work for the foreseeable future, and his time with Kate Kane is done. He reiterated his love for the character, saying that walking away from her was an incredibly hard decision to make, but one that was necessary.
> 
> Rucka went on to say, "The goal when we set out writing Kate was to create a character who would endure. I really didn't want a flash in the pan. I wanted to make sure she had a strong origin. Any writer who read those seven issues would be able to write her, and would be able to write her quote unquote properly." He also revealed the original plan for his run with Kate Kane. Originally, "Elegy" was supposed to be 4 issues, "Go" 3 issues, and then a 5 part story with JH Williams III, his collaborator on "Detective Comics."
> 
> Due to a variety of things in-house at DC, they were moved off of "Detective Comics" and couldn't tell the story there. That story would have been Alice's origin story and would have wrapped up the run. "I don't know if I'll ever get to do it," he said, but said that he has "been around in this industry long enough to never say never." He made it clear that he isn't jumping ship to Marvel, choosing instead to focus on his "Queen & Country" novel and several other projects he has been wanting to do. One of the reasons he has backed away from DC was an encounter with his wife, noted writer Jen van Meter, where he realized that he "needs to telling the stories he wants to tell again," rather than getting complacent at DC. Check back later for a full transcript.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 2, 2010)

Knew I should have gone to that panel, but NO!  I just had to leave early to save busfare 

On topic though:




Taleran said:


> I luv me some All Star Batman and Robin



I know right?  That book is hilariously absurd.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 3, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Knew I should have gone to that panel, but NO!  I just had to leave early to save busfare
> 
> On topic though:
> 
> ...



ASSBAR is the shit.

It just takes the crazy and jacks it up to 11.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 5, 2010)

> Written by GRANT MORRISON •
> Art by FRAZER IRVING •
> Cover by FRANK QUITELY •
> 1:25 variant cover by FRAZER IRVING
> ...


----------



## Clay Man Gumby (Apr 5, 2010)

So how 'bout that Greg Rucka?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 6, 2010)

Rod posted that already
2AM I Did Wrong

also




*Spoiler*: _Batman and  Robin #11 preview_


----------



## Taleran (Apr 6, 2010)

Huh, Umbrella.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 6, 2010)

I love him just walking calmly through a massive DEA raid.

Also I love Clarke and all but I can't stop seeing every 5th person as Vril Dox.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 6, 2010)

Red Robin #11 Preview





Sending just 2 assassins each after Alfred and Babs? Cmon now Ra's, you're better than that. 

Looking forward to seeing Alfred be badass. Pretty sure he'll be able to handle the assassins just fine on his own.

Also, I have a hunch that Steph will continue to be better written here than she is in batgirl, which makes me chuckle.

EDIT: Hunch was correct.

Anyways, solid issue. Nice to see Tim put Damian down when he was being out of line. 

B & R was great, as per usual. Did not expect 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Deathstroke


 to step into the controls.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 7, 2010)

Morrison brought 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Deathstroke


 into the new arc.

Amazing


----------



## Taleran (Apr 7, 2010)

Liked 10 a bit more but can't wait for 12


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 7, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Morrison brought
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



This is probably a dumb question, but he knows that Grayson is Batman right?


----------



## Bender (Apr 7, 2010)

^

I'm quite curious to know how the hell Deathstroke knows Dick is Batman as well.

Also what do you think? Do you think Oberton Sexton is Bruce Wayne?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 7, 2010)

Deathstroke has fought Dick for ages, of course he'd figure it out no problem


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 7, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Deathstroke has fought Dick for ages, of course he'd figure it out no problem



Yea, that's what I figured.

Even if he had no idea he'd probably know the minute he saw "batman" fight.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 7, 2010)

Or Talia could just tell him?


----------



## lucky (Apr 7, 2010)

nahhh.  he doesn't know that bats is bruce wayne right?


oh right and does david cain know?  i..... have no idea.  he does right?!  he snuck into the batcave to frame bruce wayne didnt' he?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 7, 2010)

lucky said:


> nahhh.  he doesn't know that bats is bruce wayne right?
> 
> 
> oh right and does david cain know?  i..... have no idea.  he does right?!  he snuck into the batcave to frame bruce wayne didnt' he?



Almost positive he knows Grayson is Nightwing, so unless it's plot induced full retard, he's gotta know Batman is Bruce Wayne.

And it doesn't matter either way, he's smart enough, and knows Nightwing well enough that he'd probably pick up on it the moment he saw him speak or fight.



Petes12 said:


> Or Talia could just tell him?



Ha yea there's that. I meant before though. Like if he's known for a while.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 7, 2010)

Who says he has known though. Talia could have just told him anytime and been like "hey wanna kill dick grayson by mindcontrolling a 10 year old?"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 8, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Who says he has known though. Talia could have just told him anytime and been like "hey wanna kill dick grayson by mindcontrolling a 10 year old?"



To which he would obviously respond, "I'm already on my way out the door."

But I think it'd be odd if he didn't know already. Grayson's somebody he'd keep an ear out for. And when he hears about Batman's death, Nightwing's disappearance, and Batman's reappearance, its not hard to connect the dots.


----------



## Bender (Apr 8, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Who says he has known though. Talia could have just told him anytime and been like "hey wanna kill dick grayson by mindcontrolling a 10 year old?"



Heh

In comic books no one is given a full explanation of the task being offered to them. For the specifics they have to figure it out themselves.

And as Windwaker and Kilowog said he's fought Dick for years so he should have a pretty keen idea of who's behind the mask.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 8, 2010)

Slade doesn't know their IDs, if he's not paid to kill them it doesn't matter.

But like he said his mind is his greatest weapon, he should clearly be able to recognize Batman as being Nightwing


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Apr 8, 2010)

I feel as though....didn't we say the same shit about Two-Face? And did he ever really figure it out?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 8, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Slade doesn't know their IDs, if he's not paid to kill them it doesn't matter.
> 
> But like he said his mind is his greatest weapon, he should clearly be able to recognize Batman as being Nightwing



Yea. It's not like it matters if he knows that Dick is Nightwing or that Dick is batman.

Just that he knows that Nightwing is Batman...if that makes sense.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 8, 2010)

I just noticed this now but the only Morrison character that has the Red Glasses / Blue Coat, is King Mob in the final issue of the Invisibles


----------



## superbatman86 (Apr 8, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Slade doesn't know their IDs, if he's not paid to kill them it doesn't matter.
> 
> But like he said his mind is his greatest weapon, he should clearly be able to recognize Batman as being Nightwing


Slade know who they are.Hell way back during early Titans he attacks Dick at his apartment


----------



## Castiel (Apr 13, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #698 preview_


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 14, 2010)

> Last week, artist J.H. Williams III was nominated for two Eisners ? best penciler/inker and cover artist ? for his much-acclaimed run on Batwoman in DETECTIVE COMICS. His art was praised and recognized not only by the Eisners but across the mainstream and comic trade press for its fluid and versatile look in presenting Kate Kane and helping define her as a lasting character. J.H.?s distinctive style and creative page layouts were a key part of the book?s success.
> 
> Don?t expect that to change. In fact, J.H.?s role is about to be expanded. In the coming months, Batwoman will settle into more permanent digs of her own ? namely, an ongoing series both written and drawn by Williams. He?ll be getting a co-writer in W. Haden Blackman, a writer known for his work in the Star Wars universe, including the Star Wars: Galaxies MMO and The Force Unleashed video game. Additionally, MADAME XANADU artist Amy Reeder will be stepping in to handle the art for the second arc in the series. More on that later.
> 
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Apr 14, 2010)

That is awesome news


----------



## Castiel (Apr 14, 2010)

heh did not know Williams was a writer, but he was apparently a co-writer on both Chase and "Snow" which were both just brilliant


EDIT:

interview with JHW3


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Apr 14, 2010)

I've still yet to get into Batwoman


----------



## Castiel (Apr 14, 2010)

Big Mike Marts (Batgroup Editor) interview



Morrison interview


----------



## Castiel (Apr 14, 2010)

_*RIP HUNTER FOUND BRUCE'S CAVE PAINTINGS*_

Looks like Rip will be in a tie-in miniseries where he tries to track Bruce down


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 14, 2010)

Two more interviews with Morrison, both posted today. Damn this guy can talk.

Grant Morrison On The Psychedelia, Influences, And 'Great Achievement' Of 'Batman And Robin'



One line in particular that I really loved, from the MTV interview (the first one). 





> The fact that he manages to give Robin a lap dance — that we have a middle-aged man lap-dancing a 10-year-old boy in a Batman comic — that's a great achievement for modern civilization.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 14, 2010)

> *CA:* A lot of your work revolves around high concept themes; is there a particular theme that you're working with in "Return of Bruce Wayne" specifically?
> 
> *GM:* Each strand of it takes a slightly different approach, and looking back on "Batman and Robin," I can see there's a very interesting progression where the first story that came out is about masks, and the second story is about faces, and the third story is about bones, and the fourth story is about family history. It's kind of delving into the meat of Batman. I wasn't aware that I was doing it, but now it's so clear that each story peels back another layer of what Batman is. It all ties into that – the idea of the man in the mask. And the fact that I want to bring Bruce Wayne and Batman together again as a person, rather than the idea that Bruce is a decoy and Batman is the real person. I wanted to bring back Bruce as a living, breathing person.
> 
> ...



Haters may be hating but this right here is the reason this is best run in the History of Batman


----------



## Parallax (Apr 14, 2010)

Yeah his run has just been amazing, I'm glad he's sticking around a bit longer.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 14, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Haters may be hating but this right here is the reason this is best run in the History of Batman



Ha but I thought haters no longer hate?

But I completely agree, specifically with this:

"It all ties into that – the idea of the man in the mask. And the fact that I want to bring Bruce Wayne and Batman together again as a person, rather than the idea that Bruce is a decoy and Batman is the real person. I wanted to bring back Bruce as a living, breathing person."

I can't stand the view that Bruce is just a decoy, and think that Batman stories are at their most when both Bruce Wayne and Batman are brought together as one complex character.

The whole idea of Bruce Wayne being a facade always seemed like a cop-out to me.

It baffles me that people don't like this. I literally cannot understand how any fan of Batman wouldn't dig this.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 14, 2010)

That is why I came to like Bale as Bruce in Begins and TDK he sells Bruce as equal parts of the character. Oh and yes people are still hating on his Batman.


----------



## Parallax (Apr 14, 2010)

Who?  No seriously who?


----------



## Taleran (Apr 14, 2010)

The internet is a large place.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 14, 2010)

Taleran said:


> That is why I came to like Bale as Bruce in Begins and TDK he sells Bruce as equal parts of the character. Oh and yes people are still hating on his Batman.



Oh I know people are still hating, just had to make the joke about your last sig.

I just don't understand their hatred. This opinion kinda makes me feel like a condescending dick, but when I hear the main reasons behind most of the B&R hate (For example: It doesn't make sense, It's unnecessarily complex) I can't help but wonder if they have A: A learning disability or B: Reading comprehension of an 8th grader.

And that's exactly why I liked Bale as well. I know people hate on his batman (the voice, mainly) but his Bruce Wayne is excellent. As both the man and the facade. Ha although the facade is probably cake for him, since it's basically Patrick Bateman.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 14, 2010)

Oh that image



When I get bored of Leo, I'll probably gif the whole image into a sig.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 15, 2010)

Ha wow, I thought it was just a stand alone pic. That's hilarious.


----------



## mow (Apr 15, 2010)

I still laugh my head off at that one, Tal. XD

My issue with Bale's Batman is not his portrayal, (even the growl). I have no issues at all actually. I just hope that there will be a progression of sort to what makes batman, batman:

*Batman Begins:* Showed the grueling psychical trials Bruce/Batman placed on himself.
*TDK: *Showed (to an extent) the globe trotting detective aspect of Bruce/Batman, ang how he uses Wayne Industries for his goals. along with the moral decisions he has to endure on a daily basis.
*3rd:* I hope it shows Bruce/Batman's *genius*. Till now this fact hasn't been emphasised, that's why i always thought that the riddler + another villain would make for a great 3rd movie.

You have Nigma, a genius from Interpol, brought in by the mayor of Gotham to track and identify who is batman. Nigma figures it out, and spends the entire time challenging Batman to mental challenges through-out the movie to find who has the superior intellect. 

But I digress:

I pek Morrison.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 15, 2010)

Apparently the aftereffects of the Omega Sanction is so powerful its causing time itself to unravel and the only way to fix it is to find Bruce.






Windwaker said:


> Ha but I thought haters no longer hate?
> 
> But I completely agree, specifically with this:
> 
> ...



I love how when Brubaker and Rucka were in charge, they made this huge crossover event where the whole point was he IS Bruce Wayne, not Batman.

There was even a really touching Brubaker issue where at the end Bruce meets the cop who was assigned to the murder of his parents and snaps out of his "there is no Bruce Wayne" phase and admits how much of a fool he's been.

Then it wasn't even collected in the TPB for the event


----------



## Castiel (Apr 15, 2010)

Dan Jurgesn interview



Windwaker said:


> Two more interviews with Morrison, both posted today. Damn this guy can talk.
> 
> Grant Morrison On The Psychedelia, Influences, And 'Great Achievement' Of 'Batman And Robin'
> 
> ...



This is the greatest quote



			
				Grant Morrison said:
			
		

> I like to pretend that every story that ever happened to Batman was real and is part of this one guy's life. Even the Adam West Batman ? let's just say there's this one year where Batman and Robin were out living this crazy and kooky life, and while the criminals were out killing people, they were just acting like lunatics.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Apr 15, 2010)

Elijah Snow said:


> Who?  No seriously who?



Me

Not really for his portrayal or anything, I jusat reallly fucking hate Christian Bale, have ever since that Island in the Sun(I think was the name?) movie he was in as a kid.

Though his Bruce Wayne = quite epic. 

Also, that Batgirl/Red Robin "team-up" done? I remember reading the first two issues and then a issue of Red Robin, but that was it. And the new Batgirl doesnt mention it really.


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 15, 2010)

Eccentric Wayne is better than Cock Wayne.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 15, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Me
> 
> Not really for his portrayal or anything, I jusat reallly fucking hate Christian Bale, have ever since that Island in the Sun(I think was the name?) movie he was in as a kid.
> 
> ...



It's finishing up in the next issue of Red Robin.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 16, 2010)

> *BATMAN #701
> On sale JULY 14 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by GRANT MORRISON • Art and cover by TONY DANIEL*
> Grant Morrison and Tony Daniel re-team to tell the exciting 2-part, untold tale of Bruce Wayne and his adventures between BATMAN R.I.P. and FINAL CRISIS! What happened to Batman – and Dr. Hurt, for that matter – after the devastating events at the climax of R.I.P.? And what secrets within this story point toward THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE?



Oh so THAT'S what this story is about.  Neat.







> *BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #4
> On sale JULY 21 • 4 of 6 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> Art by CAMERON STEWART
> ...



This better have Jonah Hex in it is all I can say.







> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #14
> On sale JULY 7 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> Art by FRAZER IRVING
> ...



Why isn't it July?







> *RED HOOD: LOST DAYS #2
> On sale JULY 7 • 2 of 6 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by JUDD WINICK
> Art by PABLO RAIMONDI
> ...



Scientifically proven Winick writes the only good Jason Todd, so yeah.







> *DETECTIVE COMICS #867
> On sale JULY 28 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by DAVID HINE
> Art by SCOTT MCDANIEL and ANDY OWENS
> ...



Hine is amazing, not a big fan of McDaniel but he's not a deal breaker.







> *RED ROBIN #14
> On sale JULY 7 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by FABIAN NICIEZA
> Art and cover by MARCUS TO & RAY MCCARTHY*
> Red Robin vs. Robin! When Damian discovers that he’s on Red Robin’s potential “hit list” of bad guys to apprehend, the new Robin goes about proving how wrong Tim was by trying to beat the crap out of him! Meanwhile, Tim’s plans begin to flourish, starting with a new role at the Wayne Foundation and a new love life.



ahahahaha ok I'm definitely reading this







> *GOTHAM CITY SIRENS #14
> On sale JULY 28 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by PAUL DINI • Art and cover by GUILLEM MARCH*
> Just as the girls begin working as a team, a new threat destroys everything! Can they reunite in time – or will this be the end of the Sirens?



Who gives a shit







> *AZRAEL #10
> On sale JULY 21 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by DAVID HINE
> Art by jeremy haun
> ...



YES YES YES  Hine/Haun is one of the breakout creative teams for me of the past year.  They'll do amazing.







> *BATMAN: STREETS OF GOTHAM #14
> On sale JULY 21 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US
> Written by PAUL DINI
> Co-feature written by IVAN BRANDON
> ...



Interesting...  Also WTH?  No Andreyko on co-feature?







> *BATGIRL #12
> On sale JULY 14 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by BRYAN Q. MILLER
> Art by LEE GARBETT & JONATHAN GLAPION
> ...


I had hope for Wendy/sad


----------



## Taleran (Apr 16, 2010)

That may just be my favorite Quitely B&R cover, awesome


Although the Story of what happens between RIP and FC is a strange one to tell, I guess it will be interesting to see what happened to Hurt.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 16, 2010)

But no Cassandra Cain. . .

Sigh. . .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 16, 2010)

Looking forward to Batman (interested in the post - RIP pre FC period), B & R (cover is pure sex), Red Robin (what a totally unexpected surprise!), and Streets of Gotham is always solid.

Not a big fan of Miller's batgirl, but that cover looks pretty damn good.

I think it's funny that Tim put Damian on his bad kid list.


----------



## Bender (Apr 16, 2010)

Bruce hurry up and return!!!!!


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 17, 2010)

> BATMAN BEYOND #2
> On sale JULY 21 ? 2 of 6 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by ADAM BEECHEN
> Art by JOHN STANISCI
> ...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 17, 2010)

Looking forward to Batman Beyond. We can all agree that Beechen's one of the best writers DC has right now, and Im looking forward to his next classic run.


----------



## Slice (Apr 17, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> We can all *agree *that *Beechen's* one of the *best writers* DC has right now, and Im looking forward to his next classic run.



I dont think we can all agree on that.

Actually i can think of some people that get really pissed off when hearing the name Beechen.


----------



## Parallax (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm really glad that Morrison and Daniel are reuniting to do a 2 part arc I can't wait to check that out.  And oh man B & R is just getting better and better, I can't wait for 'Batman and Robin Must Die!'


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 17, 2010)

Slice said:


> I dont think we can all agree on that.
> 
> Actually i can think of some people that get really pissed off when hearing the name Beechen.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 17, 2010)

Clearing the record on me and Beechen:

I don't really have any beef with him outside of Cassandra Cain.

It's ONLY his work with her that I *ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RAGE!*

As for his work outside of it, they're not that bad. And some are pretty good, albeit cartoon though.

But on Cassandra Cain. . .

*THAT.

FUCKER.*


----------



## Bender (Apr 17, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Looking forward to Batman Beyond. We can all agree that *Beechen's* one of the *best writers* DC has right now, and Im looking forward to his next classic run.





> Actually i can think of some people that get really pissed off when hearing the name Beechen.




Like this friend right here who is about to explode and take the rest of the world with him. 



*Composes self*


WINDWAKER



Do you have *ANY* idea


WHAT you just said? 


Seriously, I thought you were smarter than this man.... I mean I know we both can come into agreement with our mutual love of current Tim Drake A.K.A. Red Robin. But c'mon by saying you like Beechen' art is saying "Fuck Cassandra Cain" and by saying "Fuck Cassandra Cain" you're saying "Fuck you Comic Book guy" and also "Fuck you Blaze of Glory". Shit, it's like saying "Fuck you" to the glory days of the Bat family when it was these in the Bat-family

Batman (Bruce Wayne)



Robin (Tim Drake)



Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)



Nightwing (Dick Grayson)




Spoiler (Stephanie Brown)



Huntress (Helena Bertineli)



Shortly before being fucked over by the likes of Beechen Dan Didio this was the ultimate eye candy for any comic book fan. 

Yes, I understand you're content with the direction of the Batgirl comics are taking. Klutzy Steph is fun and action to make you feel as happily gay as the Flintstones do at the end of the show. 

Ya you know what. No.....Just fucking no. This is not Stephanie...She was not originally a total fucking tool to be used to rally Cassandra Cain fans and their candle light vigil praying for her return from limbo. Stephanie was a bit of a ditz but a fail comic book relief? No, during Batman R.I.P. (Bats was up against the Black Glove) she managed to outwit Tim when he was looking for Bruce. After the time-skip she should be plenty competent and not over-fucking exaggerate shit it's a fail mirroring of the light-hearted humor in Power Girl comics.

This breaks my heart but I may have to neg you dude


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 17, 2010)

haha blaze, i was being sarcastic. Hence ghstwrld's



Imminent reps for ghst for having his sarcasm detector app up to speed.

I'm content with the new batgirl series because it makes me laugh, but i'm still not happy about how miller wrote cass out and how he continues to portray steph as a rook. 

Heck, Yost (in red robin) writes a better Steph than Miller does.

As for beechen, i really really hate that she turned Cass into a character that would be very difficult to write, due to how difficult it would be to deal with all that OOC bullshit dragon lady crap.

But way to fall into my trap, your rage...it sustains me.


----------



## Bender (Apr 17, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> haha blaze, i was being sarcastic. Hence ghstwrld's



  

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  





> I'm content with the new batgirl series because it *makes me laugh*, but i'm still not happy about how miller wrote cass out and how he continues to *portray steph as a rook*.
> 
> Heck, Yost (in red robin) writes a better Steph than Miller does.





That's the source of the laughs of the book. Which is why I find it utterly atrocious. 


Cassandra's book had so much more laughs in it tho 

Not to mention action....


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 17, 2010)

As bad as Beechen ruined Cassandra Cain AND David Cain. . . it's not impossible to fix.

*I* can fix it. I can modify my original Cassandra Cain pitch in light of Beechen's 2nd ruin run of the character.

If I somehow make it to DC and secure the character.


----------



## Slice (Apr 17, 2010)

I would buy that - if only to support a real fan of the character writing her.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 17, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> That's the source of the laughs of the book. Which is why I find it utterly atrocious.
> 
> 
> Cassandra's book had so much more laughs in it tho
> ...



Not always.

Like the Damian stuff was hilarious.

"Have at thee wench!"
Oracle: Did he just go pirate?
Steph: I think musketeer.

Another is the Gordon/Christmas convo after Steph swings by and says Hi to him.
"Hey, you?"
"What? No one cares when you talk to batman!"
"Pretty sure he's legal, detective"


----------



## Bender (Apr 17, 2010)

Windwaker said:


> Not always.
> 
> Like the Damian stuff was hilarious.



Yeah, but that's my main gripe they had to introduce Damian to get more laughs.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 17, 2010)

C2E2 panel

so summary:

David Finch will draw a story for Batman #700

Morrison/Daniel two-parter officially "RIP: Lost Chapter"

Looks like #700 will be a "jam session" with him, Quitely and Kubert working on the same story.

Nguyen and his inker will be co-writing as arc of Streets

Tight lipped on if Dick would stay as Batman, but they make it seem like he might not become Nightwing again, maybe something different

Looks like Tim will in fact play a big role in Bruce's return

Big Morrison announcements will be made at SDCC (bastards)

Misfit will be in BoP

Batwoman series will be announced in fall/winter

When asked if Cassandra was in the BoP, Simone specifically said "not yet"


----------



## Amuro (Apr 17, 2010)

It's painfully obvious he won't be staying as Batman but hope after all this is said and done they keep Damian as Robin i've grown to like the little bastard.

Really looking forward to #700 should be a blast.


----------



## Bender (Apr 17, 2010)

Hagi said:


> It's painfully obvious he won't be staying as Batman but hope after all this is said and done they keep Damian as Robin i've grown to like the little bastard.
> 
> Really looking forward to #700 should be a blast.



Holy crap that'll be weird 

Like Ollie and Connor

Damian should be.....I dunno...Solo hero 

With a name other than Robin

Also Batman should be flying solo for a good long while.


No more running as Batman & Robin


----------



## Amuro (Apr 17, 2010)

They should keep the books as they are so he runs by himself with Damian occasionally popping up in Batman and father and son asskickery in B&R.

If Return of Bruce Wayne is anything to go by Bruce has been alone for long enough. I'm hoping he'll be alot more...i dunno grounded after all the shit he's been through.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 17, 2010)

Hagi said:


> It's painfully obvious he won't be staying as Batman but hope after all this is said and done they keep Damian as Robin i've grown to like the little bastard.
> 
> Really looking forward to #700 should be a blast.



Everyone was saying the same thing about Steve and Bucky, and Morrison is just unpredictable by nature.  I hesitate to second guess him on the subject.




Blaze of Glory said:


> No more running as Batman & Robin



What part of 



did you not get?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 18, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Looks like #700 will be a "jam session" with him, Quitely and Kubert working on the same story.
> 
> Nguyen and his inker will be co-writing as arc of Streets
> 
> ...





Hooray!

Although, I really don't know how I feel about Damian being Bruce's Robin. I mean, I love damian as robin, but a big part of that is because he plays so well off of Dick as Batman.


----------



## lucky (Apr 18, 2010)

damian is going to become nighwing's sidekick.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 18, 2010)

Can anyone imagine a Damien solo mini?


----------



## Parallax (Apr 18, 2010)

It'll probably happen

Honestly I'm not quite sure what Morrison's got planned for the remainder of his Batman run, but I'm not even going to try to speculate.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 18, 2010)

Well. . . if he's approaching Bruce Wayne with the path of the Buddha in mind, then. . .


----------



## Parallax (Apr 19, 2010)

I meant more of his post Return of Bruce Wayne run, since he's stated that he plans to stay on for a bit longer after that.


----------



## Thorn (Apr 19, 2010)

Batman Beyond... I used to love that show.  Definitely picking up those in hopes that they're anywhere near as good.  Oh how I've missed Terry and those sick rocket boots.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 19, 2010)

We'll see what Morrison has for Batman later on. . .

As for the Batman Beyond comic. . .

Since Beechen is writing it -- with a killer going after Bruce's rogues gallery -- I'm EXTREMELY ambivalent about this.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 19, 2010)

> *RIP HUNTER: TIME MASTER #1
> On sale JULY 21 • 1 of 6 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US
> Written by DAN JURGENS
> Art and cover by DAN JURGENS & NORM RAPMUND
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Apr 19, 2010)

I do not understand the purpose of that book other than giving Jurgens something to write.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 19, 2010)

Exploring how the Omega Effect affects the timestream?


----------



## Taleran (Apr 19, 2010)

> DCU fans won’t want to miss this 6-issue companion series to the highly anticipated BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE



Its just this line that irks me. It seems to say you won't understand this other book so here we give you a pointless uneeded series, because Bruce ISN'T going to return in the book not called RETURN of Bruce Wayne. Its editorial shoehorning more books into something that doesn't really need it.


----------



## Kyuuzen (Apr 19, 2010)

Anyone can be Batman.

As long as they're Bruce Wayne.  And NOT the Christian Bael version.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 19, 2010)

Christian Bale is an awesome Bruce Wayne.


----------



## Slice (Apr 19, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Can anyone imagine a Damien solo mini?



Damian works best when confronted with the other lead characters because his background and attitude is so entirely different.

He needs to meet Cass they might get along pretty good.





Windwaker said:


> Christian Bale is an awesome Bruce Wayne.




True

But no one beats Adam West


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 19, 2010)

Slice said:


> Damian works best when confronted with the other lead characters because his background and attitude is so entirely different.


Yea, definitely. He works best when playing off other characters.



> True
> 
> But no one beats Adam West


Well I figured that was implied.

The perfect batman would be some kind of magical fusion between Christian Bale's looks and acting ability and Kevin Conroy's voice.

EDIT:

Also, anybody else checked this out? Not a fan of Bruce's voice, but its got NPH as dick grayson so fuck yes.

Under the Red Hood Trailer!


----------



## Taleran (Apr 21, 2010)




----------



## Castiel (Apr 21, 2010)

Jurgens on Rip Hunter


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 21, 2010)

Damian is so cheesy awesome.

Who needs a mask when you can just smear some blood over your face?


----------



## Castiel (Apr 23, 2010)

Azrael continues to be a decent series

also another Morrison Interview - Link removed
and a David Finch interview on Batman #700 - StarkExpo 2010


and a preview to new 'Tec, been looking forward to this since I've loved Hine/Haun's Arkham stuff




*Spoiler*: _Detective Comcis #864 preview_


----------



## Castiel (Apr 27, 2010)

another Hine interview


----------



## Taleran (Apr 29, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman vs. Robin Ends HERE_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 29, 2010)

Resisting neural hijacking through sheer force of will.

Pops would be proud


----------



## Castiel (Apr 29, 2010)

Dustin Nguyen doing fill in work?


----------



## Parallax (Apr 29, 2010)

I can't wait for next wednesday


----------



## Bender (Apr 29, 2010)

Bruce can you see your boy he has truly become a man


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Apr 29, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Resisting neural hijacking through sheer force of will.
> 
> Pops would be proud



Somebody get this boy a ring!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 29, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Somebody get this boy a ring!



Sadly, one of the secret laws of the book of Oa does not allow Batman, or any of the incredibly badass individuals he gathers around him to serve in the Green lantern corps. The other corps have similar rules. And same goes for Superman.

It's basically like START. Nobody wants that arms race, even if GL Batman teamed with BL Superman could have taken care of Blackest night in a couple minutes.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Apr 29, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Sadly, one of the secret laws of the book of Oa does not allow Batman, or any of the incredibly badass individuals he gathers around him to serve in the Green lantern corps. The other corps have similar rules. And same goes for Superman.
> 
> It's basically like START. Nobody wants that arms race, even if GL Batman teamed with BL Superman could have taken care of Blackest night in a couple minutes.



Sinestro Corps must not have gotten the memo


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 29, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Sinestro Corps must not have gotten the memo



He got it...he just ignored it 

Cuz he's sinestro, and he JUST DONT give a darn 

On topic: Pretty dull week for bat books though, haven't had the chance to head to the LCS...how's 'TEC?

However, I can't hate on the lack of quality bat books, because next week is gonna be sick. I love that my 2 favorite bat books come out the same day.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 30, 2010)

Yost's final issue




*Spoiler*: _Red Robin #12 preview_ 













Tim is cool


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 30, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Damian is so cheesy awesome.
> 
> Who needs a mask when you can just smear some blood over your face?


What what what?  I missed this, B&R 11?

Also, I'm scared of what happens to Red Robin out of Yost's hands.  He had a slow start but he really, REALLY is doing a good job now.  Don't do it Didio.  Don't do what you did to Bart and kinda Conner.  I know you hate YJ, but hey...fuck you Johns in the house.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 30, 2010)

Streets

also Nicieza is the only person I'd trust to take over for Yost at this point


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 30, 2010)

As in Bloodmask Damiobin is in the latest SoG?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 30, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Streets
> 
> also Nicieza is the only person I'd trust to take over for Yost at this point



This.

And while we're on the topic.

Preview for Red Robin 12 




"Hello, Ra's" EPIC, even if it the "because i'm ending it" was really unnecessary.

"Report." 
"How's it goin, RA's?"
"Selina Kyle is super fine, this might be the best day of my life"
"Really grandfather, ninjas? I'm Insulted."

Badass role call doublespread is badass! 

Knew Babs wasn't gonna take shit from a couple assassins.


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 30, 2010)

Ok, it's official.  Tim will be getting that mantle one day.    This issue makes me happy.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Apr 30, 2010)

I gotta give Yost props. Pre-Red Robin I wasn't high on Tim (he was kinda their to me) but now, I'm really becoming a fan.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 30, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Streets
> 
> also Nicieza is the only person I'd trust to take over for Yost at this point



Really? Nicieza gets the character just fine but he's not an amazing writer. There's plenty of people who I'd rather see on the book, but it's just not high profile enough for them.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 30, 2010)

> Nicieza gets the character just fine


That's what I was referring

also Azrael was much better than I was expecting it to be, so he gets a few more points


----------



## Taleran (Apr 30, 2010)

Lol @ people thinking Tim will ever be Batman outside of that Johns Titans story.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 30, 2010)

Realistically, im really happy with him.

He gets the character, he's got a good vision for what he wants the book to be, he's respectful of what's come before him while not being anchored by it, and he's got a bunch of fun ideas for the book.

His Q & A thread over at the DC forums has made me pretty excited about him getting the book.  I like the fact that I can ask the guy a question and within a few days (at most) ill get an answer from the writer himself...or at least, someone who I think is the writer himself 



Taleran said:


> Lol @ people thinking Tim will ever be Batman outside of that Johns Titans story.



Oh quit being a debbie downer. And while I agree with you, he's still the most qualified candidate as an eventual replacement. Well, him and damian, depending on how he develops.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 30, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Lol @ people thinking Tim will ever be Batman outside of that Johns Titans story.



I thought you people were supposed to be jolly.

Also on that note, Johns says he originally had a mini outlined to explore that timeline, but he junked it after the 2nd rewrite


----------



## Taleran (Apr 30, 2010)

Thats only because hes written like a MiniBruce



> I thought you people were supposed to be jolly.



I'm very Jolly but the Future of Batman #666 and #700 is the only BatFuture for me.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 30, 2010)

Currently he's not. OYL Tim was definitely bruce-lite, unfortunately.

Right now he's more like a cross between Bruce and Dick.

EDIT: Although that's a simplification on level with saying Damian is a cross between Jason and Bruce.



Taleran said:


> I'm very Jolly but the Future of Batman #666 and #700 is the only BatFuture for me.



Not a big fan of Damian with superpowers, or the deal with the devil thing. But otherwise i'd be okay with it.

And while I'll probably always prefer Tim to Damian, i'd be totally cool with Damian taking the cowl.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 30, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Thats only because hes written like a MiniBruce


 from day one he's been the "smart" Robin, but without the darkness (Willingham ).  He only ever lacked the brute force.




> I'm very Jolly but the Future of Batman #666 and #700 is the only BatFuture for me.



I'm a DKR/BB guy, but yeah #666 was one of my favorite issues of the run


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 30, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> from day one he's been the "smart" Robin, but without the darkness (Willingham ).  He only ever lacked the brute force.



I mean, given all the shit in his life (dad dying, friends dying, girl dying) I can see why he'd be dark, and sort of like a mini bruce.

I mean, reacting to extreme tragedy the same way the guy you look up to most did isn't too far out the ballpark.

But yea...emo robin is lame. I loved the issue where supergirl didn't take it seriously at all, saying how adorable he was, made me chuckle.

So glad Red Robin has him getting out of that, and i have absolute faith that Fabian will continue that.

But as far as my bat future...I'd be cool with 666, or even BB. I'd just like Tim to still be an active crimefighter. I could see an awesome dynamic between Tim and Damian in the future (DamianBats coming to TimRR/whatever for help with a case because he knows Tim is better at it would be absolute lulz)


----------



## mow (May 1, 2010)

"Really, grandfather? _Ninjas_? I'm insulted. "

I love Damian.

Yost's run was superb, he took his time and the series just got better and better. Proper writing skillz.



Kilowog said:


> That's what I was referring
> 
> also Azrael was much better than I was expecting it to be, so he gets a few more points




THIS.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 4, 2010)

Pirate Batman variant cover for RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #3, by Yanick Paquette


----------



## piRateRock (May 4, 2010)

really like it


----------



## Parallax (May 4, 2010)

Next week :WOW


----------



## Castiel (May 5, 2010)

Christ Sprouse interview (Return of Bruce Wayne #1)


----------



## Agmaster (May 5, 2010)

I am the terror that flaps in the night.  I am the salty breeze, that rattles your sails.


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2010)

K, didn't see _that_ reveal coming in Batman and Robin.


----------



## Taleran (May 5, 2010)

I liked it a lot. (Who is surprised?)


----------



## Petes12 (May 5, 2010)

I was. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention to the character? 

Red Robin had a pretty strong closing issue from Yost by the way. The last page was a nice little reveal in that comic too.

edit: nvm realized you meant 'who's surprised I liked it'


----------



## Castiel (May 5, 2010)

Talia is a bitch


----------



## Taleran (May 5, 2010)

This issue made Damian my favorite Robin.


----------



## Castiel (May 5, 2010)

Not my _favorite_ but damn if my love for the character hasn't begun to exponentially grow over the past year.


----------



## Parallax (May 5, 2010)

Dick will probably always be my favorite Robin, but yeah Damian is really growing on me.

That reveal was the best.


----------



## Bender (May 5, 2010)

As soon as I saw the last page on Batman & Robin #12 I dropped my book and was like "OMG!?!?" 

Joker my man where have you been and what the hell have you been doing?


----------



## typhoon72 (May 5, 2010)

Man I went from hating Damien since the #1st issue of B&R now I love the kid, thats great writing.


*Spoiler*: __ 



And Joker WTF!!! 


Holy shit, even you guys didnt guess that. Im also surprised he knew Bruce was dead. Also Red Robin #12 was excellent.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 5, 2010)

"I've already filed 17 motions with the board for a "no confidence" vote"
"That's great, Damian. Thanks."

"Congratulations, you dog."



The catalyst for Tim's search for bruce makes sense...I guess. But its quite a leap, even taking into account the fact that the Omega beams are a big ?.

But I loved how the issue turned out. So glad Tim didn't beat him in a fist fight, cuz that would've been bullshit. Interesting that Tim is now CEO of Wayne Eneterprises. He needs to make Damian his CFO, I don't care if it makes no sense. Tim/Damian corporate ownage would so so awesome.

As for B & R. My reaction can only described as "Whaaa!?," Damians exile from the Al ghul family was really cool, loved his comment about being a worthy enemy.

He's definitely my second favorite Robin, might even be tied with Tim for first.


----------



## Taleran (May 5, 2010)

Joker was always one of the people who were very very possible almost too likely so he was dismissed early as a Red Herring kinda like Jason in the second arc.


----------



## Bender (May 5, 2010)

typhoon72 said:


> Man I went from hating Damien since the #1st issue of B&R now I love the kid, thats great writing.



I know ain't he cool. 

Talia: "But you're no longer welcome here anymore. From now on consider yourself an enemy of house of Al ghul." 

Damian:....... ....  ...........................Very well I hope I can be a *worthy* one . 

Perhaps the best scene of this arc....  

I guess NOW Talia knows how her father feels when he sees her side with Bruce. 



> And Joker WTF!!! Holy shit, even you guys didnt guess that. Im also surprised he knew Bruce was dead. Also Red Robin #12 was excellent.



I'm pissed that I didn't look closely at the Domino killings. If I had then I would have been able to get a better idea of who Oberon Sexton was.was.. 

Also is it just me or am I the only one who felt the same atmosphere from the Batman: Hush story arc when Dick confronted Joker about his identity.



 Red Robin #12 

I'm surprised how Damian was able to control his anger at the fact that Tim owns stocks of Wayne corporation.  

Also lol @ the Titans are chowing down in Damian's "fathers kitchen" 

Too bad we didn't get to see any interactions between him and the Titans. 

I can imagine Bart pantings him or giving him a wedgie... 

Also nice fucking closure 

Although Dick is able to find out several months later that Bruce is alive Tim is once again the quickest and superior detective out of all currently in the Bat-family.  

Also Ra's still wants Tim as his protege 

I'll admit I like the idea even if he does side with evil. 

Fore some reason I think the chick behind Ra's is Cassandra  (referring to information of Cass appearing in red Robin comics.) 


I can't imagine him wanting her to help him produce a heir. Or it could be someone completely new.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 5, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Joker was always one of the people who were very very possible almost too likely so he was dismissed early as a Red Herring kinda like Jason in the second arc.



Which is why i was so surprised, since i thought it was way too likely.

But Blaze, Damian obviously showed his dissatisfaction by filing 17 complaints in the span of what...a few days at most?

But seriously. Tim: CEO, Damian: CFO = Nothing to fuck with.


----------



## Bender (May 5, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> But Blaze, Damian obviously showed his dissatisfaction by filing 17 complaints in the span of what...a day?



By control anger I mean attack Tim like usual whenever he's pissed at him.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 5, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> By control anger I mean attack Tim like usual whenever he's pissed at him.



True.

Guess he's matured? Not to mention the entire room might be a little pissed off at him haha

But I love the fact that Damian is so invested in wayne enterprises, and I hope that doesn't end.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 6, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> The catalyst for Tim's search for bruce makes sense...I guess. But its quite a leap, even taking into account the fact that the Omega beams are a big ?.



What happens?


----------



## Parallax (May 6, 2010)

No one really knows, which is why they're such a mystery.  Kinda like a random grab bag of fun


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 6, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> What happens?



He's sitting around, kinda flippin out at the whole damian thing, then sees the picture of pilgrim bruce and it just kinda clicks.

Which is definitely a leap, but i'd say it's 1 parts hope, 1 parts instinct, then 1 parts each of  "holy crap that's bruce wayne" and "who really knows what the omega beam actually does?"


----------



## ghstwrld (May 6, 2010)

So, Tim Drake thinks he discovers a picture of Bruce Wayne that was taken during the 1600s (?) and doesn't tell anyone about it or investigate into it further? Really?


----------



## Agmaster (May 6, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Fore some reason I think the chick behind Ra's is Cassandra  (referring to information of Cass appearing in red Robin comics.)


Ya know.  If Kubo was writing this I would think it was Tam.  She spent alot of time with the league, but we got her inner monologue.

Maybe Ra's pulled an Aizen?


----------



## mow (May 6, 2010)

I love this book.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 6, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> So, Tim Drake thinks he discovers a picture of Bruce Wayne that was taken during the 1600s (?) and doesn't tell anyone about it or investigate into it further? Really?



You really think anybody would be like "You're right Tim, that DOES look just like bruce wayne, im sure its him lost in time and not just a coincidentally familiar looking ancestor"?

Not to mention the minute he did tell people they immediately assumed he was going bonkers in grief. And he did investigate into it further, thats why he went to go find the bat-symbol.

Anyways, not sure how i feel about the new RR costume. Glad it's got the arm blade thingys though.


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #1 preview_


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2010)

Yost talks the end of of his run on RR


O'neill on his 'tec one-of


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## Chaos Ghost (May 6, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> So, Tim Drake thinks he discovers a picture of Bruce Wayne that was taken during the 1600s (?) and doesn't tell anyone about it or investigate into it further? Really?


Have you actually read Red Robin?


Whip Whirlwind said:


> Anyways, not sure how i feel about the new RR costume. Glad it's got the arm blade thingys though.



I like it. Believe it or not, the little skirt hangdown part on the other Red Robin costume irked me.

And I love Bruce's "Sup bitches" look


----------



## Slice (May 6, 2010)

mow said:


> I love this book.



I'm going to add a "simply wonderful" here.

I honestly did not see the end coming.


----------



## Bender (May 6, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> *Spoiler*: _Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #1 preview_



LOL @ Bruce

He's like "What the fuck are Y'ALL looking at!?"


----------



## Castiel (May 6, 2010)

Heh so the way the cavemen speak is based on how aboriginal people actually spoke when they met Europeans for the first time


----------



## Bender (May 6, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Heh so the way the cavemen speak is based on how aboriginal people actually spoke when they met Europeans for the first time



It would've been a lot of work for the writers if they had to do the whole "Ah huh ooh ahh uhu" or y'know the primitive way the cavemen speak and a translation in the word bubble. 

They just called it Cavemen language correct.  

Hmm, would've been interesting


----------



## Parallax (May 6, 2010)

I think it would have been obtrusive and probably annoying.  I can't wait for next week, with Morrison writing 3 Batman books it's gonna be an amazing few months


----------



## Bender (May 6, 2010)

This months  DC comic books issues are total sex


----------



## ghstwrld (May 6, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> You really think anybody would be like "You're right Tim, that DOES look just like bruce wayne, im sure its him lost in time and not just a coincidentally familiar looking ancestor"?
> 
> Not to mention the minute he did tell people they immediately assumed he was going bonkers in grief. And he did investigate into it further, thats why he went to go find the bat-symbol.
> 
> Anyways, not sure how i feel about the new RR costume. Glad it's got the arm blade thingys though.



No, they believe Tim is crazy because he claims Bruce Wayne is alive and doesn't try to substantiate it beyond appealing to their faith and goodwill toward him.

Considering the number of issues Yost spends wanking to Tim's genius, his outstanding deductive abilities, and wizard class detective sensibilities; one would think he'd have him, I don't know, investigate the photograph, and perhaps even the manor (!) in which it resides (!).  If folks with second-rate abilities are able to unravel the mystery of Bruce Wayne from the very same photo Tim discovers, there's no reason Tim shouldn't have done so too.



Chaos Ghost said:


> Have you actually read Red Robin?



lol

I've been going on and on about how Red Robin is going nowhere fast, that the whole bit with Ra's is arbitrary and dramatically so for ages.

It turns out I'm more right than I ever imagined.


----------



## Bender (May 6, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Considering the number of issues Yost spends wanking to Tim's genius, his outstanding deductive abilities, and wizard class detective sensibilities; he'd have him, I don't know, investigate the photograph, and perhaps even the manor (!) in which it resides (!).



Proof that you haven't been reading Batman books or Robin much less Red Robin for that matter.

Tim was always stated to be a genius that could possibly surpass Bruce's. Detective-wise and in other areas. The boy learned how to make clones of Connor (Superboy) when he was 16. Alright, 16! Shit, even Bruce couldn't have done that or learn such great science until after he was introduced to the Justice League and come the Silver Age. Shit, he's even rivaling his mentor in prep time. Drugging Lady Shiva' food is no easy feat.




> It turns out I'm more right than I ever imagined.



Yeah, Dementia can do that to a person. 


DC is thinking of turning Tim to the dark side. That's what Red Robin is about.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 6, 2010)

lol

You should read my post again.  Slowly this time.


----------



## Taleran (May 6, 2010)

Lets do the Mindfuck again

[spoiler="Baron Samedi" is usually depicted with a top hat, black tuxedo, dark glasses, and cotton plugs in the nostrils, as if to resemble a corpse dressed and prepared for burial in the Haitian style. He has a white, frequently skull-like face (or actually has a skull for a face) and speaks in a nasal voice. He is a sexual loa, frequently represented by phallic symbols and is noted for disruption, obscenity and debauchery][/spoiler]


----------



## Bender (May 6, 2010)

^

lol

Joker should tread carefully with the top-hat look or Penguin is gonna shoot up his ass. 





























































Tho Joker will crush him since he rocks ta top hat look way betta


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## Castiel (May 6, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> No, they believe Tim is crazy because he claims Bruce Wayne is alive and doesn't try to substantiate it beyond appealing to their faith and goodwill toward him.
> 
> Considering the number of issues Yost spends wanking to Tim's genius, his outstanding deductive abilities, and wizard class detective sensibilities; one would think he'd have him, I don't know, investigate the photograph, and perhaps even the manor (!) in which it resides (!).  If folks with second-rate abilities are able to unravel the mystery of Bruce Wayne from the very same photo Tim discovers, there's no reason Tim shouldn't have done so too.
> 
> ...




Price of shared universe, solution may only appear in Morrison's book.

Still it was a good book for Tim fans that took the character out of his funk of the past decade.  So yeah a success in my book


Taleran said:


> Lets do the Mindfuck again
> 
> [spoiler="Baron Samedi" is usually depicted with a top hat, black tuxedo, dark glasses, and cotton plugs in the nostrils, as if to resemble a corpse dressed and prepared for burial in the Haitian style. He has a white, frequently skull-like face (or actually has a skull for a face) and speaks in a nasal voice. He is a sexual loa, frequently represented by phallic symbols and is noted for disruption, obscenity and debauchery][/spoiler]


Ok that is so much reaching at once I can only take half of it seriously, but still mind blown


----------



## ghstwrld (May 6, 2010)

> Here is the variant cover for Batman Beyond #1. Presented in stages of construction. This one was a bit unusual because I had to draw it and then sort of take it apart and put it back together. I was a little worried about this one because I only had a vague idea of what I wanted to do it after drawing. I knew that the inked version was far from feeling finished to me because I wasn’t quite sure what to do with it. All I knew is that I wanted to try out some different things stylistically than I normally do. So I winged a lot of it, trying out a different drawing look on Bruce Wayne, something less realistic. Same goes for the color processes, I approached it very organically, not knowing where it was all headed. Experimenting until I was satisfied with the results. I hope you find it interesting…



Final version w/logo added






Kilowog said:


> Price of shared universe, solution may only appear in Morrison's book.
> 
> Still it was a good book for Tim fans that took the character out of his funk of the past decade.  So yeah a success in my book



Considering the book isn't terribly concerned with finding Bruce Wayne, Yost shouldn't have included it.


----------



## vicious1 (May 6, 2010)

Well, I did not see that reveal coming.


----------



## Bender (May 6, 2010)

I remember looking at this one image of Bruce walking through the wall and 
 guys I was just thinking......

As a result of Bruce's trip through time do you think it's possible he'll somehow gain the abilities of Shrodinger's cat. y'know being able to disappear or re-appear at will? 



ghstwrld said:


> Final version w/logo added



It's gonna suck





> Considering the book isn't terribly concerned with finding Bruce Wayne anyway, Yost shouldn't have included it.



It's called subplot

Who cares? If it's a good read then it doesn't matter. 

Lots of good stories have 'em.


----------



## Bender (May 7, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #699 preview_


----------



## Parallax (May 7, 2010)

I didn't really get into Daniel's run on the book, but I'm so glad for the next few months him and Morrison will team up again


----------



## Castiel (May 7, 2010)

Another yost interview


Yost knew about the portraits from the beginning but had to wait for this arc of B&R to run


----------



## ghstwrld (May 7, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> It's called subplot
> 
> Who cares? If it's a good read then it doesn't matter.
> 
> Lots of good stories have 'em.



Sorry, no.  Tim's faith/obsession and determination toward proving Bruce's survival and finding him gives impetus to the entire story.  Developing a sense of compromise and tact when it's totally convenient undermines his whole ordeal.


----------



## Castiel (May 7, 2010)

Tim needed to be taken out of his darkness.  Tim needed to do _something_ in the past year since Damian took his jerb.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 7, 2010)

Expecting a story to follow a discernible pattern of cause and effect isn't asking much, methinks.


----------



## Slice (May 7, 2010)

Kilowog said:


> Tim needed to be taken out of his darkness.  Tim needed to do _something_ in the past year since Damian *took his jerb*.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0QjcGgLBjQ[/YOUTUBE]



I liked the Red Robin run but i have to admit it had kind of a slow start and i more than once thougt about dropping the book during the first 3 or 4 issues.


----------



## Petes12 (May 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Expecting a story to follow a discernible pattern of cause and effect isn't asking much, methinks.



Well you're absolutely right that the first few issues led us to believe this was a story about his hunt for Bruce Wayne, and that's Yost's fault. 

However, looking back it's easy to see the real story was about Tim getting out of his funk and the assassins conflict was a really obvious way to show that character development or attitude shift or whatever. The hunt for Bruce Wayne was just a way to put Tim in this place where he's compromising his values more, or whatever.

And no it wasn't an amazing story. But for fans of the character it was plenty fine, especially since it put Tim in a much better place (though a worse costume).


----------



## Castiel (May 7, 2010)

> looking back it's easy to see the real story was about Tim getting out of his funk


Yeah.  His original mission was to find Bruce but he had the more immidiate threat of Ra's Al Ghul to deal with.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 8, 2010)

The cause and effect bit is referring to Tim's mania/tactlessness/etc and how convenient it is, and the revelation his adventure is started by something that's entirely tangible makes this more clear.


----------



## Bender (May 8, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> The cause and effect bit is referring to Tim's mania/tactlessness/etc and how convenient it is, and the revelation his adventure is started by something that's entirely tangible makes this more clear.



So are you admitting your argument is fail? 

If not I'll point why it is:

Saying that it should be about finding Bruce is like saying that he should Bruce should be all about trying to rid Gotham City of all that crime that lurks in it.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 8, 2010)

lol

You should read my post again.  Slowly this time.


----------



## Castiel (May 8, 2010)

You seem to not be getting this.

He can't spoil Morrison's pay off or risk the wrath of fans.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 8, 2010)

Irrelevant. 

Anyway, is Batgirl still mediocre?  The  doesn't inspire any good things.


----------



## typhoon72 (May 8, 2010)

Question. 

Is GC Sirens worth reading? I read every other batbook besides this one, and Streets.


----------



## Castiel (May 8, 2010)

... yeah ok, ghstwrld doesn't get how mainstream comics continuity works.  nothing new there.

Also Sirens sucks, but Streets is good


----------



## ghstwrld (May 8, 2010)

No, it's more like I get how special pleading works.


----------



## Castiel (May 8, 2010)

right mainstream comic books


----------



## Bender (May 8, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> No, it's more like I get how special pleading works.



Pffffffffft


Yeah right

You think Batman Beyond comic book is gonna be *GOOD*


----------



## ghstwrld (May 8, 2010)

Oh, Blaze.  

Do try to keep up.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 9, 2010)

I do get what ghst is saying about how Tim should've started his investigation with the Manor. However, there are many reasons why that couldn't happen. First of which being that that's what Morrison was doing over in Batman and Robin. Second, Yost needed a catalyst for Tim's globetrotting and the LoA story that would result from that. Admittedly, he could have come up with a better reason for Tim to go abroad, but IMO it's a pretty minor issue.

In story, the only thing I can attribute it to is that Tim's emotions were overriding his rationale, and that he just wanted to get away from everybody.

As for why he didn't appeal to Dick and co. with his theory, he didn't really get the chance. When Dick confronted Tim, and Tim said "I know Bruce is alive, im going to prove it", the first thing Dick did was recommend a therapist.

Up until the moment Dick attempted to resurrect Bruce, I don't think he even considered the possibility that he may not be dead.

For the most part though, it's true that the initial issues of Red Robin were mediocre, and even that is being generous. I wouldn't have read them if not for how much I like Tim.

And @Typhoon,

I definitely recommend Streets. Between Batman and Streets, I definitely prefer Streets for my "classic Batman stories" fix. Especially if you like Damian.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 9, 2010)

Yes, undermining the entire story is a minor issue.  



> In story, the only thing I can attribute it to is that Tim's emotions were overriding his rationale, and that he just wanted to get away from everybody.



No, he's desperate for companionship and for folks to believe in him, which is why he spends most of his time lamenting his alienation.



> As for why he didn't appeal to Dick and co. with his theory, he didn't really get the chance. When Dick confronted Tim, and Tim said "I know Bruce is alive, im going to prove it", the first thing Dick did was recommend a therapist.



No, the first four or so issues are all about showcasing Tim's confrontations with his friends/family that leave him emotionally cornered and desperate enough to engage with murderers, madmen, and masterminds in activity beyond simple crime fighting.

Tim's so invested in getting his way, he makes it so whole hog, except he doesn't.  

The story is a mess; sloppy in concept and execution.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Yes, undermining the entire story is a minor issue.



The first story arc is shit, I'm not disputing this. The only point of it was to start the Ra's arc, and get Tim out of his emo stage he'd been in since infinite crisis. 



> No, the first four or so issues are all about showcasing Tim's confrontations with his friends/family that leave him emotionally cornered and desperate enough to engage with murderers, madmen, and masterminds in activity beyond simple crime fighting.



Exactly, when everyone you care about thinks you're crazy and refuses to listen to you, you tend to not want to be around them. Instead, he chose to go to Europe and attempt to prove himself right.

His reasoning for going to Europe should have been included though. It was odd that that was covered in Adventure Comics (the dude in paris with the mother box) as opposed to Red Robin.



> Tim's so invested in getting his way, he makes it so whole hog, except he doesn't.



How does he not get his way? He finds evidence that Bruce is alive while at the same time massively hurting the LoA.


----------



## Castiel (May 10, 2010)

Identity Crisis, War Games, Infinite Crisis

Soul crushing year for him


----------



## Parallax (May 10, 2010)

Yeah I mean it kinda makes sense why he would be emo for awhile.  His dad, best friend, and girlfriend start falling like flies.  Who wouldn't be feeling shitty after that?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 10, 2010)

Sir Henry said:


> Identity Crisis, War Games, Infinite Crisis
> 
> Soul crushing year for him



And Batman RIP on top of that.

Well, at least Superboy is back.


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2010)

kid flash too


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> And Batman RIP on top of that.
> 
> Well, at least Superboy is back.



Don't forget Steph and Kid Flash. Although obviously Tim loves Conner more than Steph. And Kid Flash can't even step to the level of bromance/guy love Tim and Conner have attained.

He's like the Oliver Queen to Tim and Conner's Hal Jordan and Barry Allen.


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2010)

Tim is JD, Conner is Turk, Steph is Elliot?


----------



## Castiel (May 10, 2010)

This got weird


Morrison interview


----------



## Parallax (May 10, 2010)

"I use media exposure as a means of playing with multiple personalities. Each interview is a different me and they're all untrustworthy"

Everytime he has a weird interview this is the first thing I think of


 "So really, what I'll be doing is taking it right back to where we began all of this with "Batman and Son." It's a big, mega-story that kind of makes sense to me in my head, so I had to make it work. So I'll definitely be staying with Batman in some form for the next couple of years to finish this story off." 

This just made my day


----------



## Petes12 (May 10, 2010)

Sir Henry said:


> This got weird


Oh cmon it works so well.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Tim is JD, Conner is Turk, Steph is Elliot?



Pretty much, and Cassie is Carla. Ha also, judging by his scene with Selina, Bart is the Todd 

The first thing that popped into my head when I saw Tim hug Conner was the "Guy Love" song. 

It's odd, a comicbook is the last place I thought i'd find Scrubs parallels ha

Now back to serious business,

"For me, Batman has fought werewolves, he's fought vampires, he's done all this other stuff, so it was kind of like, why not take the modern, kind of cold, logical, "The Wire" approach to time travel?"



"We've seen him punch the grin off a mugger a thousand times. Those guys don't stand a chance against Batman. Crime bosses don't stand a chance. Supervillains don't even stand a chance. So we wanted to test that character against the biggest challenges we can think of and so we needed to put him in these areas where he wasn't comfortable and areas where he might not fit in and say, "OK. Survive, you bastard" and watch that story, because that's the story that hasn't been told."

Fuck yea.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 10, 2010)

Batman's the Buddha, remember?


----------



## Castiel (May 10, 2010)

Finally bought and completely read newest Red Robin and Streets of Gotham (skimmed them before)

Liked both.


----------



## Taleran (May 10, 2010)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 10, 2010)

Not just hated...*worthy* 

But Im looking forward to the next big Al Ghul fam vs. Bat fam event, just to see Damian own some more league mooks and fuck things up for mom and grandpa.


----------



## Taleran (May 10, 2010)

I find Talia's reasoning kinda silly. She is making another Damian clone and if the Clone is the same as Damian won't he also go over to Bruce.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I find Talia's reasoning kinda silly. She is making another Damian clone and if the Clone is the same as Damian won't he also go over to Bruce.



I guess she's hoping that by raising him differently it'll be different?

Maybe she'll do more to control him this time around, and keep him even further away from bruce.

But I agree it's a bit odd.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I find Talia's reasoning kinda silly. She is making another Damian clone and if the Clone is the same as Damian won't he also go over to Bruce.



Well, they are very good genes...


----------



## Bergelmir (May 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I find Talia's reasoning kinda silly. She is making another Damian clone and if the Clone is the same as Damian won't he also go over to Bruce.



Won't he be ten years old or something when the clone is let out of the tank, though? So the clone will probably be one of those emotionless killers, with programmed memories or something. Way different from Damian who has been brought up by the LoA since babyhood.


----------



## Castiel (May 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I find Talia's reasoning kinda silly. She is making another Damian clone and if the Clone is the same as Damian won't he also go over to Bruce.



I know Nature vs. Nurture can be a complex thing to ponder, but you have to admit MEETING Bruce left an impression on him.  Far as Talia knows, he's dead


----------



## Castiel (May 11, 2010)

Another Morrison interview


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I find Talia's reasoning kinda silly. She is making another Damian clone and if the Clone is the same as Damian won't he also go over to Bruce.



worked fine with inertia


----------



## ghstwrld (May 11, 2010)

Frank Quitely’s cover to BATMAN AND ROBIN #13








> "The European tradition in adventure art, particularly with Brazilian artists, is very sensual and very tactile," Simone says. "Ed draws the women and the men almost superhumanly hot and steamy, and yet he also does beautiful acting work with the faces and body language. It's a thrill to work with him again, and he makes it very clear that Birds of Prey is back with his art alone."




No shame.


----------



## Castiel (May 11, 2010)

I met her at WonderCon (nice person).  She _genuinely_ means it or is a sociopath.


----------



## Parallax (May 11, 2010)

I'm all about the Quitely cover and once again glad this is the standard one over Frazier's cover.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 11, 2010)

Sir Henry said:


> I met her at WonderCon (nice person).  She _genuinely_ means it or is a sociopath.



. . . Why not both?


----------



## Taleran (May 12, 2010)

Good start, it also seems the Jurgens thing is going to factor a bit closer (may be why it got pushed back to May)


----------



## Castiel (May 12, 2010)

Yeah nice to see Jurgens' stuff will potentially matter.

Also Anthro III being the first Robin was neat


----------



## Castiel (May 12, 2010)

Nicieza on RR


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 12, 2010)

RoBW was good, not omgwtfawesome, but given that it's the first issue im cool with it.

Loved Superman's "You're joking, right?" speech, and im interested to see how time masters deals with this.

That interview with nicieza gets me so so excited for the coming months of Red Robin.


----------



## Castiel (May 13, 2010)

Uzumeri annotates Return #1


Interesting


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 13, 2010)

Good first issue.

Can't wait to read the next one.


----------



## Bender (May 13, 2010)

Bruce going batgod on the cavemen and Supes speech about our favorite _goddamn Batman_ made the issue for me. 

Can't wait for issue #2 pek pek pek


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 13, 2010)

Was I only the one digging how smooth Caveman Savage was?

And do you think that was _the_ Vandal Savage? He is that old right?


----------



## Parallax (May 13, 2010)

It's supposed to be him


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 13, 2010)

Elijah Snow said:


> It's supposed to be him



Ok, I'm not that familiar with him, so I wasn't sure.


----------



## Castiel (May 14, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> He is that old right?



Older.  He's one of the very first human children (he's Cain of "and Abel")

Also he fought Anthro in Final Crisis, this issue takes place after Anthro died of old age.


----------



## Taleran (May 14, 2010)

BATMAN #702
Written by GRANT MORRISON
Art and cover by TONY DANIEL
Grant Morrison and Tony Daniel continue their captivating untold tale of Bruce Wayne and his adventures between BATMAN R.I.P. and FINAL CRISIS! Discover the shocking secrets that point toward THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE that we couldn’t show you until now!
On sale AUGUST 11 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US



BATMAN AND ROBIN #15
Written by GRANT MORRISON
Art by FRAZER IRVING
Cover by FRANK QUITELY
1:25 variant cover by FRAZER IRVING
In the final chapter of “Batman Must Die,” all is lost and everything has gone to pieces! Is Dick Grayson alive? Will Damian make a pact with the devil? And what will happen after the final confrontation with Dr. Hurt?
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale AUGUST 25 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US


BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #5
Written by GRANT MORRISON
Art by RYAN SOOK
Cover by ANDY KUBERT
1:25 variant cover by RYAN SOOK
Grant Morrison is joined by all-star artist Ryan Sook in the penultimate issue of THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE! In this story, Bruce Wayne finds himself in the hard-boiled streets of Gotham City’s past. Will his adventure as a private investigator help him take one step closer to the present day?
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale AUGUST 11 • 5 of 6 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US


----------



## Z (May 15, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Was I only the one digging how smooth Caveman Savage was?
> 
> And do you think that was _the_ Vandal Savage? He is that old right?



Pretty sure that was him. 

Caveman Batman was pretty cool. I'm sure it'll be more interesting now that he's in a more intriguing time period.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 15, 2010)

I want to have this as a poster in my room.


----------



## Bender (May 15, 2010)

Taleran said:


> BATMAN #702
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> Art and cover by TONY DANIEL
> Grant Morrison and Tony Daniel continue their captivating untold tale of Bruce Wayne and his adventures between BATMAN R.I.P. and FINAL CRISIS! Discover the shocking secrets that point toward THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE that we couldn?t show you until now!
> ...



*EPIC*



That is the only word to describe this


just

*Epic*


----------



## Z (May 15, 2010)

Hyped up for those.


----------



## Bender (May 16, 2010)

LOL

I just thought of something funny

Y'know like how you guys miss Tim as Robin right.... 

So why don't we have Damian's new name be after Bruce's silver age dog "Ace".


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 16, 2010)

Who misses Tim as robin?


----------



## Taleran (May 16, 2010)

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh that is a good question.


----------



## Castiel (May 17, 2010)

Only superficially out of a sense of nostalgia.  Streets and B&R have sold me on him and I don't ever wanna go back (that and Tim's "nightwing" "promotion" has worked out well)


Also weird how I can only see solicit images on the Wii (thanks for telling me keyboards work on it Taleran, point and clicking was annoying) and not on home or school PCs


----------



## Castiel (May 17, 2010)

> *TIME MASTERS: VANISHING POINT #2
> Written by DAN JURGENS
> Art and cover by DAN JURGENS & NORM RAPMUND *
> 
> ...


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 17, 2010)

Go to hell Hal


----------



## typhoon72 (May 17, 2010)

Just caught up in streets of gotham...The art is sooooo nice.

Damien is the best, and Hulkling Jr.


----------



## Taleran (May 17, 2010)

Batman #700 Mike Mignola Variant Cover


----------



## Z (May 21, 2010)

Joker is back :33   .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 23, 2010)

I liked streets of gotham. Abuse is a character who I definitely think has potential, and I like the idea of Damian actually having a friend.


----------



## Taleran (May 23, 2010)




----------



## Bender (May 23, 2010)

Oi guys I just picked up Batman Jekyll & Hyde book any of you guys read it?

Shit it fucking sick as hell. 

Beautiful art 

and everything

I wonder anyone know the artist behind the book?


----------



## Castiel (May 23, 2010)

is that the one by Paul Jenkins and Jae Lee?


----------



## Bender (May 23, 2010)

Sir Henry said:


> is that the one by Paul Jenkins and Jae Lee?



Yep 

And also Sean Phillips


----------



## Bender (May 24, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #2 PREVIEW_


----------



## Taleran (May 25, 2010)

I smell Hypertime


----------



## ghstwrld (May 25, 2010)

Two in one month?


----------



## Parallax (May 25, 2010)

Preview looks sweet, I can't wait to read this one.


----------



## mow (May 25, 2010)

Well...._damn_. Art is super, and I did not expect the plot to switch to _that_


----------



## Castiel (May 25, 2010)

I like that we see more of the Time Masters




ghstwrld said:


> Two in one month?



Gotta appease the fans for the long wait don't they?

And this summer, 3 Morrison batbooks a month


----------



## mow (May 25, 2010)

This is like porn for me pek


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 25, 2010)

When Darkseid fucks with you, he makes the entire universe and the timestream to help him fuck with you. . . and then have it fuck everyone over.


----------



## Bender (May 25, 2010)

Anyone thinks Bruce is gonna nail that hot piece of ass that's nursing him back to health in this new Batman TROB #2?


----------



## Agmaster (May 25, 2010)

No, but I think she is goinng to die.


----------



## Bender (May 25, 2010)

Agmaster said:


> No, but I think she is goinng to die.



Well of course she's gonna die


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 25, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Well of course she's gonna die



Like get killed die

Also, he quickly deleted it, but on Twitter the other day Bendis totally refereed to this as "Batman Porn" or some along the line. I wish now I had screencapped it.


----------



## Taleran (May 26, 2010)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 26, 2010)

hahaha, batman would completely ignore the point of the assignment. Love the last comment.

I can see it now...

Years later, Bruce Wayne sends an email to said professor, letting him in on the fact that he's now the goddamned batman, and the world's greatest detective and forensic scientist.

Why would Bruce risk his secret with his douchebag professor just to gloat?

Because the professor knows, Batman is watching, and if Batman figures out he's going to blab (and he will, cuz he's batman), he'll kick his ass with karate and drop him from a great height


----------



## Taleran (May 26, 2010)

I am afraid to see how good Return of Bruce Wayne will get before it is over.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 26, 2010)

If the second issue is any indication i'm right there with you.

Hot damn was that incredible. It was a perfect combination of interesting and straight up badass.


*Spoiler*: __ 



 I mean, he took on a fucking kraken with only a sword. A KRAKEN.


----------



## Parallax (May 26, 2010)

Agreed, this issue was amazing.  I'm really looking forward to how this keeps going.  I can't wait to pick this up tomorrow


----------



## Castiel (May 26, 2010)

God damn, great issue.  A bit dissapointed we didn't get see anything about Thomas Wayne, but still everything was great.

Part at the Vanishing Point was amazing


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 26, 2010)

Sir Henry said:


> Part at the Vanishing Point was amazing



This. 

At the first issue I was a little like "what are they doing here, I thought that's what time masters was for?" but wow, what a fool I was ha.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 26, 2010)

> The first wave will hit in April of next year, and features four different versions of our time lost hero, based on the designs of cover artist Andy Kubert.



April of next year?


----------



## Parallax (May 26, 2010)

at least I don't have to worry about saving up any time soon


----------



## vicious1 (May 26, 2010)

This book is awesome.


----------



## Taleran (May 26, 2010)

Interesting Theory I read


*Spoiler*: _Outrace_ 






What if Bruce is still being chased by the Sanction in the forms of the Eclipses that shift him from time to time.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 26, 2010)

And Grant Morrison adds more to his mythos that the Supreme Being is the Comic Book Writer.

I hope to heck you-know-who _never_ reads Morrison. . . I've learnt my lesson after showing him that single page from Lucifer #75.

On a different note, who are the fucking editors on the Batman books? Caught _another_ spelling error. One that can't be blamed on the time period.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 26, 2010)

Maybe the editors just see "Writer: Grant Morrison" and just pass it right along to print?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 26, 2010)

Morrison's work is saturated with a lot of meta-stuff. With the whole Vanishing Point lecture, he's simply building what he established and explored in Animal Man and later Final Crisis.

In the pages of. . . I don't know, something with Dr. Occult or 13, the 4 writers of 52 made an 'appearance' in the story and even meta-touched upon 'cancellation'.


----------



## Bender (May 27, 2010)

I am going to jump out of my pants if Bats makes it back to his timeline in tact and not triggering total death for everyone. 

Real-talk Bruce is the epitome of peak-human in the DC universe.


----------



## Shintiko (May 27, 2010)

A little off topic, but does anyone else think a poster of Joker from R.I.P. needs to be made?  I'd love one.

Back on topic.  I just finished issue 2 of The Return of Bruce Wayne.  Crazy awesome stuff.


----------



## Taleran (May 27, 2010)

Bat Annotations Round 2


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 27, 2010)

Completely forgot about that bat-mite line, thats awesome.

Also, not ROBW related, more Hush/Streets related, but i found this theory over on the DC forums about Colin being Tommy Elliot's son, and I can't believe i didn't think of it myself.


*Spoiler*: __ 



From Heart of Hush, Tommy Elliot lets Batman know that 10 years ago, he met a girl. This is Peyton Riley, who is established at a point as a 'good Catholic girl' which is why she didn't see divorce as an exit from her abusive marriage before she turned into the new Ventriloquist. Tommy Elliot dates her for about a year, they declare love for each other, his overbearing mother doesn't approve, then when he tries to get his mother to accept Peyton, she not only informs him she disapproves of the girl but she's taking his inheritance away. Scuffle scuffle, Peyton runs interference to kill the lawyer, comes back to witness Tommy killing mom, and makes some calls to family's flunkies to cover it up. Now we can be together forever, she lets him know. He assures her thats the case and leaves the country after his mom is buried.

Ten years later, a 10 year old orphan who's been in and out of foster homes since he was 3 is kidnapped by Scarecrow at the direction of Tommy Elliot and becomes Abuse.

Possible that Colin is the son of Peyton and Tommy? I've been drastically wrong about this kind of theorizing before but figured I'd ask. BTW, they all have the same color hair (Peyton dyed it when becoming Ventriloquist), vaguely common color but still. 




I find the idea of Damian's (Bruce's estranged son) first friend being Colin (Tommy's estranged son) pretty cool.

I like the character, and it would certainly add some meat to him character wise.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 27, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Completely forgot about that bat-mite line, thats awesome.
> 
> Also, not ROBW related, more Hush/Streets related, but i found this theory over on the DC forums about Colin being Tommy Elliot's son, and I can't believe i didn't think of it myself.
> 
> ...


Sounds like I need to read Streets of Gotham


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 27, 2010)

Other than issues 5-6 (Sorry Yost), its been my third favorite bat book out now (1. B &R, 2. RR).

If you like Damian, Zsasz, or Dini's writing in general i'd definitely recommend it.

EDIT: Also, the first 4 issues are told from the perspective of the broker, who i find pretty interesting.


----------



## Agmaster (May 27, 2010)

Arkham vs Zsasz went well.


----------



## Castiel (May 27, 2010)

seriously?  I thought the Yost issues of Street were alright.  It's the BENSOn issues that were horrible


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 27, 2010)

They weren't bad, they just weren't as good as the dini issues.

And while I agree that the benson issues were not good (worse than yost's), they are more necessary imo simply because they tie into the Zsasz story.


----------



## Castiel (May 27, 2010)

No they      didn't


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 27, 2010)

My mistake, I forgot Benson didn't do issue 7


----------



## Taleran (May 28, 2010)

> Return of Bruce Wayne #2: If you don’t like this comic, then you’re stupid and I probably hate you.
> 
> I’m not even kidding. If you asked me to come up with my ideal plot for a comic book, it would be very close to this, a story where–spoiler warning, and seriously, if you haven’t read this, stop here and go do so, then go read David Uzumeri’s annotations for this issue–Darkseid uses The Omega Sanction to turn Bruce Wayne into a living time bullet, counting on him fighting his way through time by sheer shirtless Batmanly determination, while still solving other mysteries and Batmanning in different eras, only for Batman to be one step ahead of him all along. It is, in all honesty, everything I want from a Batman story and more.
> 
> ...



That is spot on.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 28, 2010)

That is excellent.

Im normally pretty flexible when it comes to comics, understanding that people have different of opinions. With this however, i have to almost agree with that first line haha.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (May 28, 2010)

Bad


ASS!


----------



## Bender (May 28, 2010)

Bruce being the achivist was so fucking    moment for me


----------



## Stilzkin (May 28, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Bruce being the achivist was so fucking    moment for me



This completely confused me, was he really the achivist? Isn't he supposed to be travelling from cavemen times to his age and they were looking for him at the end of time?


----------



## Taleran (May 28, 2010)

They weren't looking for him at the end of the time, and since the issues are going chronologically expect for that to be resolved near the end.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 29, 2010)

Bruce plans for everything. . . at least, everything that he cares about.

*mutters about Cassandra*


----------



## Bender (May 29, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Bruce plans for everything. . . at least, everything that he cares about.
> 
> *mutters about Cassandra*



If you're luck then the chick in white who attacked the Birds of Prey is Cassandra. 

Btw you guys I was on TV tropes and it said that Batman: Gothic has some references to Doctor Hurt and his Anti-christ stats. 

That true? 

Oh and one other thing, if the Omega Sanction is a doomsday attack that will send the person back as a big BOOM how come Mister Miracle came from it unscathed.


----------



## Castiel (May 29, 2010)

Gothic was about a man trying to outsmart the devil and Batman stopping him.  I'm certain it will be important later on in regards to Hurt but Morrison has yet to use it


----------



## Bender (May 29, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> Gothic was about a man trying to outsmart the devil and Batman stopping him.  I'm certain it will be important later on in regards to Hurt but Morrison has yet to use it



Do you think Doctor Hurt is really the devil?

Shit, would be tight... 

and if not that is possible that he's Bruce after going through the Omega sanction?

If I remember correctly it was Taleran who showed a theory on the possibilities of it being true.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 29, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> If you're luck then the chick in white who attacked the Birds of Prey is Cassandra.



I fail to see how Cassandra being an antagonist again, would be lucky.


----------



## Bender (May 30, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I fail to see how Cassandra being an antagonist again, would be lucky.



DUDE I doubt that she'll be an enemy again. 

No way in hell Simone will give Cassandra that type of treatment.

she'll become a good guy again


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 30, 2010)

I'll believe it when all Cass-fans see it.


----------



## Petes12 (May 30, 2010)

thats pretty clearly shiva in birds of prey.


----------



## Bender (May 30, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> thats pretty clearly shiva in birds of prey.



And you know this how again?


----------



## Slice (May 30, 2010)

I dont think its Shiva or Cass.

But i loved Canarys comment "Lady Shiva or Cassandra Cain, either way we are done for"


----------



## Petes12 (May 30, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> And you know this how again?



She calls black canary 'little bird' or whatever, which is what Shiva always called her. Plus Simone has written the relationship between Shiva and Black Canary before in BoP.


----------



## Z (May 30, 2010)

She hit harder than Shiva.


----------



## Bender (May 30, 2010)

^

There's that



Petes12 said:


> She calls black canary 'little bird' or whatever, which is what Shiva always called her. Plus Simone has written the relationship between Shiva and Black Canary before in BoP.



Simone has written Cassandra Cain into the story as well 

so there's a good possibility that during her sparring sessions with Dinah she's called her that.


----------



## ghstwrld (May 30, 2010)

Is Cassie Cain the type of character that would wear a trenchcoat over a polo-necked leotard and thigh-highs?


----------



## Petes12 (May 30, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> so there's a good possibility that during her sparring sessions with Dinah she's called her that.



no there isn't.


----------



## Bender (May 31, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> no there isn't.



Yes, there is. Or else we would've seen Slam Bradley knocked up Selina Kyle prior to the one year later storyline. Not to mention her way of dealing with people who try to discover Batmans secret identity.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 31, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Is Cassie Cain the type of character that would wear a trenchcoat over a polo-necked leotard and thigh-highs?



If this weren't Simone, id say that DC doesnt really give a shit what type of character Cass is.

But yea, if it wasn't simone, i might have entertained the notion that it was Cass.

However, I feel like Simone knows that another radical character change is not a good thing for Cass. If this is Cass, i'd expect a lot of backstory to explain how and why. Since this first arc is probably Birds trio based (babs/helena/dinah), i doubt thats the case.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 1, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _The Joker's Asylum: The Riddler #1 preview_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 1, 2010)

Batman, world's greatest cockblocker.

Seriously, no matter how much game you have, once Batman drops down from a skylight and kicks you in the chest, you've struck out.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 1, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Batman, world's greatest cockblocker.



I feel as if I should make some quip about him, Nightwing, and women. . . but I can't! I'm not that witty, unfortunately.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 2, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Red Robin #13 preview_


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 2, 2010)

Superman/Batman Annual 4 preview


Where to begin...?  : /


----------



## vicious1 (Jun 2, 2010)

That was terrible. They should really just stop that book.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 2, 2010)

Red Robin looks good

EDIT: -1 for having the old costume on the cover


----------



## Bender (Jun 2, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Red Hood: Lost days #1_


----------



## Taleran (Jun 2, 2010)

> We’ve got a simple good news/bad news situation for you all this morning.
> 
> Bad news: Artist Cameron Stewart won’t be handling the art chores on the fourth issue of BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE. We’ll have more Cameron news, however, in the coming months, so — as usual — keep it locked here at The Source. So, wait. That’s not bad news at all.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2010)

^

Not that I hate the The Return of Bruce Wayne #4 but I cannot just get into cowboy shit. Anyone else besides me thinking of skipping that issue?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2010)

You are very very silly.


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2010)

Taleran said:


> You are very very silly.



The movie really that good?


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 3, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> ^
> 
> Not that I hate the The Return of Bruce Wayne #4 but I cannot just get into cowboy shit. Anyone else besides me thinking of skipping that issue?



Watch Unforgiven.

Now.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 3, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> ^
> 
> Not that I hate the The Return of Bruce Wayne #4 but I cannot just get into cowboy shit. Anyone else besides me thinking of skipping that issue?



RoBW isn't an anthology, you'd miss important details to the story. Just... only you would even consider skipping an issue for such a stupid reason. You're truly one of a kind.


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> RoBW isn't an anthology, you'd miss *important* details to the story.



No shit Sherlock

I'm contemplating skipping it cuz I don't like the setting. I can easily compile the facts/details from the last issue. That's why there's the internet. 

EDIT:

Batman #702 is going to have IMPORTANT details to the story that's an issue not to miss.



> Just... only you would even consider skipping an issue for such a stupid reason. You're truly one of a kind.



Why thank you.


----------



## mow (Jun 3, 2010)

That's like saying because you don't support NASA's space program, you refuse to read anything that is set outside planet Earth. 

I honestly cannot get it when you guys go on about not liking something before it's even out yet. That just makes no fucking sense. It's different if say, the writer had a bad rep, or the art is just horrendous, but disliking something because of the _setting_? Seriously?


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2010)

mow said:


> That's like saying because you don't support NASA's space program, you refuse to read anything that is set outside planet Earth.



No different than people complaining about not wanting to read anything by Jeph Loeb.  

 I skipped a Supergirl issue when she met Terra and guess what it turns out I didn't miss dididley except a few good laughs of Owen implying that there was girl on girl action between Kara and the new Terra. 

Shit just looks really gay to me. Nothing to it. Not just because of the old western setting. 

Don't act like you haven't made the same type of complaint of that nature dude.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 3, 2010)

You Like Batman
You Like Batman Written By Morrison
You Don't like Cowboys

that is still 2/3


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2010)

Taleran said:


> You Like Batman
> You Like Batman Written By Morrison
> You Don't like Cowboys





It does sound like a stupid reason I almost forgot I enjoyed Paladin from second coming/Starbreaker arc. Plus, I forgot I saw Shanghai Noon too which had cool cowboy action.


On another note in the preview for Red Hood Lost days

 @ Ra

 cry some moar


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 3, 2010)

What is it about westerns/cowboys that you don't like?


----------



## mow (Jun 3, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Don't act like you haven't made the same type of complaint of that nature dude.



Complaints about setting =/= Complaints about author and/or artist. 

The only time I can think of where I made a complaint about the setting was in BN, where it turned out life as a whole ORIGINATED FROM EARTH. Even then that was more of a complaint against Johns's logic/writing, really. Because at least in Morrison's case, with his angle of how stories lead to the "birth" of everything, DC Earth made sense as the origin-point. Johns' logic is as stupid as having all the emotional entities chilling out on Earth

but I digress; your logic = inane. Batman as cowboy = win.


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> What is it about westerns/cowboys that you don't like?



Nothing. I have no idea where the hell that thought came from. 

Just ignore it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 3, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> The movie really that good?



YES.

Also,



Prefer Once Upon A Time In The West over Good, Bad, and the Ugly. But they're both fantastic.

In summary, Sergio Leone and Ennio Morricone are the dynamic duo of westerns.

/not an italian movie (linguistically speaking), just an italian poster


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 3, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> YES.
> 
> Also,
> 
> ...


Son of a bastard.  Beat me to it.  That's pretty much the only Western I watch these days.  I even got the harmonica theme on my sansa.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm honestly more excited that Georges Jeanty is drawing issue 4 over Cameron Stewart


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2010)

Westerns in general are awesome.  As much as I love the revisionist and spaghetti westerns, I have a soft spot for the traditional stuff.

My personaly all time favorite is *The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance*, such a great movie.  John Wayne was the man.




Blaze of Glory said:


> The movie really that good?


[YOUTUBE]J0BrdMi-oyc[/YOUTUBE]


Whip Whirlwind said:


> YES.
> 
> Also,
> 
> ...




[YOUTUBE]BcjUpL7ThAU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Castiel (Jun 3, 2010)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 3, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> [YOUTUBE]BcjUpL7ThAU[/YOUTUBE]



Ha, I thought about posting that, but I figured it'd be too much of a spoiler for anybody who actually planned on watching the movie.

But yes, that scene is fucking incredible. That track is probably my favorite Morricone song. The way the harmonica builds up and then the guitar comes in is so epic.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 3, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I'm honestly more excited that Georges Jeanty is drawing issue 4 over Cameron Stewart



Crazy talk.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 3, 2010)

Red Robin was decent, not wtfamazing, and definitely a set up issue, but solid. 

Pretty sure the only thing I didn't like was Tim's over the top declaration of his "big plan" to Damian and Alfred, since it just felt over the top and unnecessary. As always, the antagonistic brotherhood between Damian and Tim was amusing. Tim's fall made me chuckle, as did Damian's "Are you touching my food?".

Hopefully this whole "plan" of his is executed well, but so far im optimistic.

Not sure how I feel about Red Hood, other than that Talia is pretty creepy ha.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 3, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Crazy talk.



just being honest.

On the subject of westerns, I pretty much hate and get really bored with the genre except for a few movies that I find excellent.  Still excited for issue #4 though


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 3, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> My personaly all time favorite is *The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance*, such a great movie.  John Wayne was the man.



You beat me to you lint licker

"This is the west, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 3, 2010)

At the thread re-name


----------



## Bender (Jun 3, 2010)

@ Thread name change


----------



## Castiel (Jun 4, 2010)

so Levitz' BB annual was not as bad as I was figuring it would be


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 4, 2010)

Cowboy Batman!


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 4, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> so Levitz' BB annual was not as bad as I was figuring it would be



Yeah, the story isn't bad, but rather uninspiring and inoffensive.

The art, though, is terrible.

*sigh*


----------



## Castiel (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm gonna put Geudes into the "aquired taste" column, I distinctly disliked his art when I first saw it but over the past year and a half I've warmed up to it.


----------



## firefist (Jun 4, 2010)

did pirate batman already appear?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 4, 2010)

No wait till next month for that


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 4, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> I'm gonna put Geudes into the "aquired taste" column, I distinctly disliked his art when I first saw it but over the past year and a half I've warmed up to it.



I don't believe any amount of time will ever make the confrontation with Luthor gain any sort of visual logic.  I mean, we're dealing folks that are grounded, others that are airborne, yet there's never a clear sense of scale, perspective, or depth; everything just sort of sits on the page.  

I stayed on the bit where Superman sweeps up between Luthor and Batman for like ten whole minutes because it looks totally awkward.

The action choreography is just as bad.  It's mostly just a bunch of random cutaways; there's little to no sense of flow or momentum.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 4, 2010)

Again dunno how to explain it, I really disliked him a year and a half ago and now I don't.  I really can't explain it, but I kind of like his line and figure work, though he does lack flow.


also Frazer Irving interview


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> I don't believe any amount of time will ever make the confrontation with Luthor gain any sort of visual logic.  I mean, we're dealing folks that are grounded, others that are airborne, yet there's never a clear sense of scale, perspective, or depth; everything just sort of sits on the page.
> 
> I stayed on the bit where Superman sweeps up between Luthor and Batman for like ten whole minutes because it looks totally awkward.
> 
> The action choreography is just as bad.  It's mostly just a bunch of random cutaways; there's little to no sense of flow or momentum.


Beyond the same page you mentioned specifically where superman flies in, I found the art to be fine. Not amazing, but never confusing or lacking scale or perspective or any of that other crap. It's above average art for a DC book and I'm not sure why you expected some super-star artist for a book like Superman/Batman. Besides, he did a great job on the cities, whoever guedes is. 

Personally I thought the art was a lot stronger than the writing. Superman's actions were totally unbelievable. He's just stalking criminals and zapping them into the phantom zone? And he doesn't contact McGinnis, tell him his plan or any of that why exactly? 

Then there's the last minute superman replacement that's mostly out of nowhere and just forced into the story to give superman someone to fight and then make that last ditch attempt to say something about his character. 

And that ending page was a real groaner. Even worse than the batcave scene.


----------



## Bender (Jun 5, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Cowboy Batman!



Samurai Batman


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 5, 2010)

Dude thats freaking great! Is that fanart, or are we really going to get a samurai Battyman?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 5, 2010)

Clarity, coherence, and consistency are reserved for the likes of super-star artists?

Really?


----------



## Bender (Jun 5, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> Dude thats freaking great! Is that fanart, or are we really going to get a samurai Battyman?



Fan art 

They really should've done an issue of TROBW with Bruce in Feudal Japan.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Clarity, coherence, and consistency are reserved for the likes of super-star artists?
> 
> Really?



I thought it was perfectly clear, coherent and consistent, one page aside. 

And no one's mentioned it yet but Red Hood was actually quite good.


----------



## Slice (Jun 5, 2010)

I did like Terry in this issue but somehow Supermans characterization fellt off.

Art was solid, not perfect but not horrible either.


The 'Red Hood' issue will have to wait until tomorrow - it's really late and i dont want to search the net read it right now.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2010)

Winick writes the only good Jason Todd





Blaze of Glory said:


> Fan art
> 
> They really should've done an issue of TROBW with Bruce in Feudal Japan.



That's cause he's jumping through TIME, not SPACE.  Morrison actually had Gladiator Batman planned out but then he realized this and said "shit"


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> Winick writes the only good Jason Todd


Todd didn't do a thing that issue, it was his Ra's and Talia that impressed me.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2010)

I was being general about my hopes for the mini.

But yeah you got a point, the whole Ra's/Talia thing kind of popped up out of nowhere in the Annual I thought but he's done a great job of following it up.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

I actually don't know what annual you're referring to, I just thought he wrote them really well this issue.


----------



## Bender (Jun 5, 2010)

Third Doctor said:
			
		

> That's cause he's jumping through TIME, not SPACE.



Duh, don'tcha think I know that? 

Btw that a rhetorical question.

It's a good thing Morrison canceled an issue of Bruce jumping to gladiator era. That is something I would disdain far more than I previously hated Cowboy Bats for a brief moment. 

Batman in the feudal era we can see Bruce get into his zen like he did in the beginning of the last issue of Batman R.I.P. Black glove arc. Those few pages of Bruce with the monk was like a piece out of the movie "Hero".

My favorite line from that chapter "You blinked. I switched the cups." 



Petes12 said:


> And no one's mentioned it yet but Red Hood was actually quite good.





> Winick writes the only good Jason Todd



DAMN STRAIGHT 

I can't wait until the next issue 

Need ta see Jason beat down dudes.

EDIT: 

Tis, yes it was a shame that we only got to less of Todd and more of Talia and Ra's. Although, thanks to that hopefully, people will have a much more sympathetic view of Talia. Everything she's done for Bruce was out of love and devotion to him.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I actually don't know what annual you're referring to, I just thought he wrote them really well this issue.


----------



## Bender (Jun 5, 2010)

That issue was fantastic

Though I hope we see Jason re-visit Talia in Lost days 

Dude really needs to show some gratitude to Talia for dropping him in the Lazarus pit and bringing his consciousness back. 

Oh, and hot thought if we see Cassandra Cain come back we should see a team-up between those two.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

Cassandra isn't evil


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2010)

Neither is Winick Todd, well he's on the line in a Punisher kind of way, but definitely not "evil"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2010)

Cassandra might be in Hong Kong, actually.

Or at least, that's what Tim seems to think. On his display where he's laying out his plans he's got a note that says "Cassandra - hong kong?"

Which, if i have it right, has been the first mention of her since that lame "I fought for him...but no more" bull back in the early issues of steph's batgirl?

Shiva's on his "hit list" and since Nicieza seems to want to keep up the whole "Prep jesus who doesn't mind asking for help" thing goin, Tim asking for Cass's help wouldn't be too out of the picture. At least, thats what im hoping.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> Neither is Winick Todd, well he's on the line in a Punisher kind of way, but definitely not "evil"



Even Winick says Todd is a straight up bad guy. He's just a very sympathetic one.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2010)

Difference between being a bad guy and being completely and thoroughly evil.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

He's pretty irredeemable though, especially after battle for the cowl and morrison's arc.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2010)

Battle for the cowl was annoying, but i'd really love for Morrison's arc to just be completely ignored.

My one and only problem with the otherwise perfect Batman & Robin.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

It wasn't amazing (especially the art) but I dunno why you'd say it should be ignored.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2010)

Yeah he got thrown off the bus after IC.  Everything went out the win dow

He actually worked as a Punisher copy with Bat tendencies, now he's a psycho who shoots cops in the back of the head wearing a hotdog on his head


----------



## Bender (Jun 5, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Cassandra isn't evil



Nor is anyone who works with Todd


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> It wasn't amazing (especially the art) but I dunno why you'd say it should be ignored.



Because he was more of a plot point than an actual character.



Third Doctor said:


> Yeah he got thrown off the bus after IC.  Everything went out the win dow
> 
> He actually worked as a Punisher copy with Bat tendencies, now he's a psycho who shoots cops in the back of the head wearing a hotdog on his head



This. I like him like that, particularly his sense of humor. 

Also, given the DCU's attitude on killing, I think there is definitely a spot for a punisher like character.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2010)

I don't agree with that.

And Blaze, Cassandra is pretty uncompromising in her batman values. She'd pretty much never work with Todd.


----------



## Bender (Jun 5, 2010)

Ignore BTFC 

and Batman & Robin plz

Morrison nearly obliterated Todd's entire character

almost like Dan Didio did in Countdown to Final Crisis



The *REAL* Jason Todd

the one we saw in Robin comics (the one where he's shot in the knee-cap in a shootout with the cops) and Green Arrow & Batman crossover comic ,Under the hood is the one we all know and have a love-hate relationship with. That's the real one. The Jason we see in Batman & Robin with the capsule head is like some shit from a poor slasher flick. Although, I'll give kudos to Morrison for his imagination his interpretation of the character is off.

The dude is a sympathetic villain, if not then tell me how you'd feel about him after seeing this:


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I don't agree with that.



Fair enough, you're probably right. I still think he went a bit too far off from the character that jason todd fans actually like.

But given the events of BFTC his behavior in B & R made some sense, although the crazy was turned up a little excessively.

I'd still rather have it be kinda glossed over for further stories involving the character. He worked well for that story but I dont think it really benefits the character in the long run.

I'd love to see Winnick do a present day Jason Todd mini, or even an ongoing. Its why Ill be buying red hood, simply to support the character.



> And Blaze, Cassandra is pretty uncompromising in her batman values. She'd pretty much never work with Todd.



If Cassandra's gonna work with any robin, its gonna be Tim.


----------



## Bender (Jun 5, 2010)

@ Petes12

If Cassandra would never work with Todd why is she at his grave with Bruce in Batman: War drums? She's pretty much the same as him (aside from hot body, martial arts master) they were both street orphans before Bats picked up both of them and brought them into the fold, both Todd and Cassandra have dick head parents, and get the shit end of the stick more than other bat-family members (well not as much as Tim does).

More over before and during her bowdlerization in Robin/Supergirl/Titans comics/ Gawdy Batgirl Redemption she teamed up with Slade to take down the Teen Titans, tried to assassinate Supergirl took control of the League of Assassins and etc. If she had morals (aside from her no killing rule) then yeah they'd team up briefly right before she chastises him for killing and they brawl like how Onyx was tried to before getting knifed.


----------



## Bender (Jun 5, 2010)

> If Cassandra's gonna work with any robin, its gonna be Tim.



They should still do an issue with them. 

Nearly every present Bat-family member has met one another. Only seems fair that Cass and Todd meet.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2010)

I wouldn't mind it. Im just sayin that if Cass is gonna come out of character limbo anytime soon it'll likely be in Red Robin. Especially with the fact that Tim is apparently attempting to find her and is looking to take down Shiva.

She's likely to be more careful in her chocolate consumption this time around, and of all the bat family, Cass is probably the best person for the task of finding and taking shiva.


----------



## Bender (Jun 6, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I wouldn't mind it. Im just sayin that if Cass is gonna come out of character limbo anytime soon it'll likely be in Red Robin. Especially with the fact that Tim is apparently attempting to find her and is looking to take down Shiva.
> 
> She's likely to be more careful in her chocolate consumption this time around, and of all the bat family, Cass is probably the best person for the task of finding and taking shiva.



Holy shit that  will be *AWESOME!*

 

That means that I was right the first time when I said that she'll appear in Red Robin #14


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 6, 2010)

Well Red Robin has always been one of the series that Cass was most likely to appear in. Its relatively low profile, and has an international aspect to it. 

But I doubt she'll be in as soon as 14. Tim's still dealing with Lynx, not to mention the ensuing Damian stuff.

Judging from interviews though, its pretty likely that Tim could go to China to track down shiva and enlist Cass's help in that. Which would indeed be pretty sweet, because i've always liked their team ups in the past.


----------



## Bender (Jun 6, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Well Red Robin has always been one of the series that Cass was most likely to appear in. Its relatively low profile, and has an international aspect to it.
> 
> But I doubt she'll be in as soon as 14. Tim's still dealing with Lynx, not to mention the ensuing Damian stuff.
> 
> Judging from interviews though, its pretty likely that Tim could go to China to track down shiva and enlist Cass's help in that. Which would indeed be pretty sweet, because i've always liked their team ups in the past.



Maybe the new Lynx is Cassandra 

And she tried attacking Robin to test his skills or some such.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 6, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Maybe the new Lynx is Cassandra
> 
> And she tried attacking Robin to test his skills or some such.



It's a legit possibility, seeing as all asian people look exactly alike.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 6, 2010)

Jason Todd by Judd Winnick is like Conner Hawke by Chuck Dixon: anything about or featuring this character but written by that writer should be considered non-canon


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 6, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I thought it was perfectly clear, coherent and consistent, one page aside.



Off the top of the head:

The scaling throughout the issue is mostly wrong.  At one point, Batman's supposedly stalking Metallo from a distance, yet it looks like he's flying directly behind him; one minute the Superman robots are towering over Terry and company, next minute they're shorter than them; the relationship between the chemical plant and the thugs never makes much sense: sometimes the humans look like giants, other times they're ant-size.  

Look at the Batcave scene toward the middle of the story.  Look at how giganimous Batman and Ace are!  Nothing in this scene makes sense.  All of it is wrong.   

Given the manner in which Lois' gravestone is situated, the way the writing on it is depicted, especially when Superman is flying away, makes no fucking sense.  He doesn't even get the hole on the side of the building on the very last page correct.

The fight scene with Metallo is just a bunch of random cutaways.  

Luthor is supposedly always airborne, yet it doesn't always look that way.

Most of the time, there's little to no nuance or characterization in facial expression.  There's one page that features five/six different shots of Terry's face and they all look exactly the same.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Look at the Batcave scene toward the middle of the story.  Look at how giganimous Batman and Ace are!  Nothing in this scene makes sense.  All of it is wrong.



This just makes me think you have depth perception problems. 

And the metallo 'fight' was one page where, and this is very clearly depicted by the art, batman simply pushes metallo into the water, where he sinks.

There is also absolutely nothing confusing or wrong with the gravestones. And Luthor is always clearly airborne. Pretty much the only legitimate thing you pointed out was the scaling of the superman robots, and that's so incredibly minor.

You're just picking apart the art for no other reason than you have a hardon for batman beyond and had expectations that were way too high as a result. You're looking for any reason to hate it. Which is why it's especially weird you zeroed in on the art and not the writing.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 6, 2010)

No amount of fanwank will ever make this picture okay, sorry.

And once again, rather than stay on-topic, you resort to ad hominems.  Please.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2010)

OH! ok you win that one. I was looking at a totally different scene, couldnt figure out what your problem with it was.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 6, 2010)

That image is pretty hilarious


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 6, 2010)

All this Cassandra Cain talk. . .

Damn it, I'm so blasted cynical.

I'll believe it when I see her on-page properly and no cameo bullshit, again.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 6, 2010)

Same here, im cautiously optimistic at best.

But it fits enough for me to at least consider it a possibility. IIRC, over in Fabian's Q & A thread on the DC forums, he's always been cryptic when asked about Cass.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2010)




----------



## Parallax (Jun 7, 2010)

oh man oh man, this is going to be amazing.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2010)

i'm curious to see how Batman 1,000,000 will factor into this since he is a late addition to accommodate David Finch.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2010)

So ridiculously excited to see more of Damian Bats.

I'd love to see some sort of insight on what's the status of some other batfam characters in that future.


----------



## Bender (Jun 7, 2010)

^

Ditto


----------



## Parallax (Jun 7, 2010)

Due to how much he's developed in the past year, I'm really looking forward to how he's portrayed as Batman this time.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 7, 2010)

DC Comics Senior Story Editor Ian Sattler from HeroesCon said:
			
		

> As the focus turned away from "Brightest Day," it moved to other missing characters such as former Batgirl Cassandra Cain, the Milestone heroes and also the long-discussed "Batwoman" ongoing book.
> 
> “Cassandra’s absence is out of care for the character,” said Sattler, adding that the DC office had changed plans for her a few times and now Cain is in a holding pattern of sorts, as they come up with a way to re-introduce her.
> 
> “We don’t want to bring her in wrong, so she can stay around,” said Sattler, adding that if they bring her back in the wrong way and fans don’t like it, then that just makes it harder the next time a creator wants to do something with the character.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2010)

I gotta say, I cant totally hate on that. She can't just be reintroduced out of nowhere without a decent story behind her that can flesh out the where, whats, and whys from the time between her departure in batgirl and now.

Of course, ive already stated above how I want her to come back. Multiple issue arc of RR with Tim and Cass tracking down Shiva.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 7, 2010)

I wrote up a whole complete story pitch on bringing back Cassandra, right after the OYL and TT storylines, in the Batgirl-Cassandra Cain thread.

Given recent developments, I can make a few changes here and there to make it fit.

But NOOOO, no writer wants to accommodate her, period, or allow me to use this-this character.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2010)

There is nothing about that teaser that I do not like.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I wrote up a whole complete story pitch on bringing back Cassandra, right after the OYL and TT storylines, in the Batgirl-Cassandra Cain thread.
> 
> Given recent developments, I can make a few changes here and there to make it fit.
> 
> But NOOOO, no writer wants to accommodate her, period, or allow me to use this-this character.



I have to ask, do any of these apply to you?

1) Work for a Major Publisher on staff and sell your work from the inside
2) Know Someone who works for a Major publisher and sell your work through that contact
3) Be an artist for a Major Publisher who wants to write their own work and sells it to an editor
4) Know an artist who works for a Major Publisher and will work with you to sell a story
5) Build a body of work in independent/smaller comics that draws the attention of someone inside the major publishers
6) build a body of work in outside entertainment fields (book publishing, TV, film) that draws the attention of an editor at a major publisher. 

Because if not, it doesn't matter how good your pitch is. Personally, I liked your pitch, but those are just the facts.

I stopped hoping for a full fledged "return" story a while ago. I'd be happy with a guest spot in RR for a few issues where the story heavily involves her and she is written in character.

EDIT: btw, those are Nicieza's 6 "doors" for getting into writing for a major publisher.


----------



## Bender (Jun 7, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I wrote up a whole complete story pitch on bringing back Cassandra, right after the OYL and TT storylines, in the Batgirl-Cassandra Cain thread.
> 
> Given recent developments, I can make a few changes here and there to make it fit.
> 
> But NOOOO, no writer wants to accommodate her, period, or allow me to use this-this character.



You actually wrote a script on re=-introducing her back to the DC verse? 

Can you give me a copy of it? If so I can E-mail it to the writers at DC comics.

On another note what the fuck happened to Chuck Dixon I looked up that he had a major falling out with DC over his beliefs or some such. Can there be a company that doesn't get into it with their workers over such trivial things? *bangs head against wall*

Hopefully, he' through working on "The Expendables" prequel comic to the movie he'll come back to bring Cassandra back.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2010)

Who's the artist on bruce wayne? it looks a bit... ugly.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2010)

Its Daniel Quitely and Kubert from left to right.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2010)

Ah, figured it was Daniel, wasn't as positive as I was about the other 2.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2010)

Not his best rendering but I'm sure the issue will be fine.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2010)

Taleran said:


> You are very very silly.



Surprised you didn't bring this up

[YOUTUBE]GYAC6Zgfn-U[/YOUTUBE]





Petes12 said:


> Not his best rendering but I'm sure the issue will be fine.



Yeah that screams of "draw something right now for the promo"


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 7, 2010)

Deadwood too.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2010)

I've tried my best but I can't find the eyeball gouging part on youtube


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 7, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]Blki-DISUis[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Castiel (Jun 7, 2010)

Why was this show cancelled again?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 7, 2010)

Too expensive.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2010)

Same reason as Rome, coincidentally both 2 of the best shows on HBO


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 7, 2010)

Carnivále too.

And yes, I'm still not over it.  : /


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 7, 2010)

Haven't watched any of the three, but there are on my to do list.

Too busy re-watching Oz and The Wire


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 7, 2010)

Lil M0 on Facebook said:
			
		

> How come Return of Bruce Wayne sucks? =/



Will you answer this man's question?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2010)

I do not answer questions of MADNESS


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2010)

Hm, the only reason I'll take for why someone doesn't like ROBW is that they dont like Batman outside of gritty crime stories.

Of course, I vehemently disagree with the opinion that Batman is limited to simply crime stories, but at least I can _somewhat_ understand where they are coming from.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2010)

but the second issue is a story about a crime


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 7, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Hm, the only reason I'll take for why someone doesn't like ROBW is that they dont like Batman outside of gritty crime stories.
> 
> Of course, I vehemently disagree with the opinion that Batman is limited to simply crime stories, but at least I can _somewhat_ understand where they are coming from.



I dont know Mo's feelings on Batman


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2010)

Taleran said:


> but the second issue is a story about a crime



ha you know what I mean. Some people prefer their batman to be a teensy bit more "grounded". 

Personally, I'm a fan of both the "out there" batman stories as well as the more traditional gotham crime stories. That's why I think it's awesome that we have Morrison doing his thing over in B & R and ROBW as well as having Dini doing his thing over in Streets and (until recently) Daniel doing Batman.

I definitely prefer what Morrison is doing simply because its so fresh and because I find his writing in general to be more interesting, but that doesn't mean I dont really enjoy streets.

I guess the only people who truly annoy me are people who hate on Morrison's Batman simply because he took bruce out of the cowl for awhile or because his work is "convoluted" or "doesn't make sense" or "requires a 9th grade level of reading comprehension"


----------



## Taleran (Jun 7, 2010)

To be completely honest I find Gotham City boring. Especially after growing up with the TAS, I think that is a lot of the reason I could not get into Gotham Central.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2010)

Taleran said:


> To be completely honest I find Gotham City boring. Especially after growing up with the TAS, I think that is a lot of the reason I could not get into Gotham Central.



I can see where you're coming from with that. I still think if the right writer is working with the right characters there are still interesting stories to be told there, but the setting of Gotham itself is for the most part just "there" for me.

However there are still a few new aspects of Gotham that I find interesting, mainly the little details that are always just ignored. For example, I like The Broker because I think he's an interesting answer to the question "How do gotham super-villains get their hideouts?". 

But to some extent I agree. So many Gotham crime tales have been written over the years that sometimes its very refreshing to have the bat-characters in new settings. Which is why I'm very glad that (according to Fabian) Red Robin will continue to alternate between Gotham and abroad.


----------



## Bender (Jun 8, 2010)

Taleran said:


> To be completely honest I find Gotham City boring. Especially after growing up with the TAS, I think that is a lot of the reason I could not get into Gotham Central.



It's a damn shame instead of the Gotham Central live action series on WB we got Birds of Prey. 

I only read the first story arc of GC but what I've read of it, it's pretty good.  I'll be getting the books pretty soon.

@ Third Doctor 

Can't blame me for forgetting Daniel's style of art


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2010)

Was there actually going to be a Gotham Central series?

HBO Gotham Central series done by David Simon (The Wire)


----------



## Bender (Jun 8, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Was there actually going to be a Gotham Central series?



Better fucking believe it   



> HBO Gotham Central series done by David Simon (The Wire)


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2010)

damn the idea of David Simon and Ed Burns working on something like that is amazing.


----------



## mow (Jun 8, 2010)

100 Bullets + Gotham Central by Simon/Burns would be a dream come true.

Also I think the reason Rome & Deadwood got canceled is the fact people just couldn't handle the awesome


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 8, 2010)

No.  Most of HBO's total revenue comes from monthly subscription fees and their shows with the highest profiles were still on during Carnivále, Deadwood, and Rome's original runs.

They were simply too expensive.  Average cost per episode was something crazy like 5/6+ million.  Even the Wire most definitely would have been canceled if it was running those type of numbers.


----------



## mow (Jun 8, 2010)

5mil a pop? Jeez that's nuts. I could see Rome racking up those figures, but Deadwood? Never assumed that.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 8, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I have to ask, do any of these apply to you?
> 
> 1) Work for a Major Publisher on staff and sell your work from the inside
> 2) Know Someone who works for a Major publisher and sell your work through that contact
> ...



Oh, I'm quite aware of all this.

I received the contact information from one of the industry people (from someone who worked on Promethea!). I can e-mail regarding my future thesis (which actually does involve Promethea) but I thought about starting with him.

As for Fan Expo, I'll see what I can do.

I've some potential artists who's interested in collaborating with me in making web-comics. BUt one has a job and the other is writing her thesis.



Blaze of Glory said:


> You actually wrote a script on re=-introducing her back to the DC verse?
> 
> Can you give me a copy of it? If so I can E-mail it to the writers at DC comics.
> 
> ...



I doubt he'll return in time to still be interested in the character.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2010)

mow said:


> 5mil a pop? Jeez that's nuts. I could see Rome racking up those figures, but Deadwood? Never assumed that.



Rome was actually getting pretty good ratings, but it was just too much.  Same with Deadwood.  Great shows nonetheless

I'm just glad they didn't cancel The Wire after the third season like they originally planned to.


----------



## Id (Jun 8, 2010)

How the new Azreal series coming along...any good? :33


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Oh, I'm quite aware of all this.
> 
> I received the contact information from one of the industry people (from someone who worked on Promethea!). I can e-mail regarding my future thesis (which actually does involve Promethea) but I thought about starting with him.



Oh that's awesome!

Ha well let me know if anything you write makes it to print, you can count on my $2-3.99.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 8, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Too expensive.


motherfuckers



Taleran said:


> Same reason as Rome, coincidentally both 2 of the best shows on HBO


motherfuckers



Taleran said:


> To be completely honest I find Gotham City boring. Especially after growing up with the TAS, I think that is a lot of the reason *I could not get into Gotham Central*.


MADNESS



mow said:


> 100 Bullets + Gotham Central by Simon/Burns would be a dream come true.






ghstwrld said:


> No.  Most of HBO's total revenue comes from monthly subscription fees and their shows with the highest profiles were still on during Carniv?le, Deadwood, and Rome's original runs.
> 
> They were simply too expensive.  Average cost per episode was something crazy like 5/6+ million.  Even the Wire most definitely would have been canceled if it was running those type of numbers.


motherfuckers



Id said:


> How the new Azreal series coming along...any good? :33



Yes, much, much better than I was initially expecting


----------



## Taleran (Jun 8, 2010)

Rome is a tad more complicated because it was made by the BBC


----------



## Taleran (Jun 8, 2010)

This is gonna get ugly


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 8, 2010)

who's billy tucci


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2010)

He created Shi


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 8, 2010)

How is that?

I've heard of it, but I haven't heard any opinions good or bad about it.


----------



## Bender (Jun 8, 2010)

Here's a link to Billy Tucci's work Shi


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

Btw you guys think Cassandra will reclaim her mantle as Batgirl?


----------



## mow (Jun 9, 2010)

She never lost it. 

*Stephanie Brown can go die in a fire*


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Btw you guys think Cassandra will reclaim her mantle as Batgirl?



nope. 

**


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

mow said:


> *Stephanie Brown can go die in a fire*



FUCK YEAAAAAAAAAH!!!!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Btw you guys think Cassandra will reclaim her mantle as Batgirl?



Nope.



mow said:


> *Stephanie Brown can go die in a fire*



Do you want her to die in a fire because you genuinely despise her character to the point where you dont give a shit that others like her because she's just THAT bad? Or do you hate her because Cass is no longer batgirl?

Because the latter reason baffles me. I try not to let DC editorial decisions or bad writing (Reason for Cass's departure was ) influence how I feel about characters.

Although I have to admit, the reveal and then redaction of the Kid Flash book and Wally West co-feature might have made me a hypocrite if the flash ongoing wasn't good.


----------



## mow (Jun 9, 2010)

oh no, not the latter, I'm no where as hardcore a Cass fan as our resident CBG is XD Not even a fan actually, I just thought she was a great character and added such a flare to the bat books. Steph on the other hand...I just think her character is really lame and everything with her as bat girl just flat out sucks (and Spoiler for that matter, much as I love Tim I totally didn't care for Spoiler). She's just a badly written character in a badly written book. 

Plus, If I want my teen super-heroine fix, I go to Nomad. 

Honestly, the only character I would ever rage hard about is Lex Luthor. I couldn't stand that "I always wanted to be superman" line in BN. Made me hate the book even more. The accurate portray of lex luthor in my mind is the one that shows him as the Lucifer to Superman's Yaweh (which sounds funny, since I really loved the way Grant wrote him in All Star Supes). Personally I could never stand superman as a character (the Yaweh thing again), and always could relate to Lex/Luce in that regard (see the amazing *Lex Luthor: Man of Steel*), and I only started liking him after reading Waid's Birthright, Grant's ASS and Johns Supes+Legion arc.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

mow said:


> Honestly, the only character I would ever rage hard about is Lex Luthor. I couldn't stand that "I always wanted to be superman" line in BN. Made me hate the book even more. The accurate portray of lex luthor in my mind is the one that shows him as the Lucifer to Superman's Yaweh (which sounds funny, since I really loved the way Grant wrote him in All Star Supes). Personally I could never stand superman as a character (the Yaweh thing again), and always could relate to Lex/Luce in that regard (see the amazing *Lex Luthor: Man of Steel*), and I only started liking him after reading Waid's Birthright, Grant's ASS and Johns Supes+Legion arc.



Ha yea Man of Steel is pretty much exactly how I like my Luthor. The idea that superman needs to be gone because he holds back human advancement is an idea I can get behind. Also, I love the whole "Yea I could cure cancer and do a bunch of other great things...but you gotta kill superman first "

IMO, The "I always wanted.." line in BN was just about as dumb as wonder woman suddenly being in love with Bruce. 

Although one could argue that he wanted to "be superman" in the sense that HE wants to be seen the worlds savior or whatever. And even then its a stretch.


----------



## mow (Jun 9, 2010)

Exactly. I mean. LL:MoS didn't show him as a sniveling jealous idiot who just happened to be uber rich. He sincerely believed he is the one fighting against "the alien". He's so resolute about that fact it immediately brought to mind Lucifer in Paradise Lost. That and the fact he would never acknowledge his opponent. Ultimate Will vs. Ultimate Power. Hell I'm even writing a book about it (a twist on the heaven/hell mythos through a "new" Dante")

Lex is such a fantastic and deep character. I hate how they rendered him into a "I WANT THIS" or "I WANT THAT". Hell if the guy was gonna get any ring, it should be green. Who else fights against a _god_? Which is why I loved War of The Supermen. Lex is such a freaking G in that book. 

& ah man, WW in BN. I think Sims summed it up best:


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 9, 2010)

The rings make folks angry or jealous or whatever all day, every day?

That sounds annoying.  Unfun too.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Batman 700 was FUCKING INCREDIBLE. Im generally open to people who have opinions that differ from mine, but I gotta take a page from Ricky Bobby on this one.

If you didn't like Batman 700, then fuck you.

Favorite section was probably Damian's (MONSTER BARBECUE! ) but the crime alley section of "Today" and the last lines were also great.

Finally, I kinda wanna see more post apocalyptic batman & robin ha.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Do you want her to die in a fire because you genuinely despise her character to the point where you dont give a shit that others like her because she's just THAT bad? Or do you hate her because Cass is no longer batgirl?



She was never supposed to inherit the mantle of Batgirl like so many others in stories today her promotion was a result of PIS. From her character derailment to pushing Cassandra out of the way so she could become Batgirl. Plus, like Dick she's also a replacement until the true wearer of the cowl returns. 



> Because the latter reason baffles me. I try not to let DC editorial decisions or bad writing (Reason for Cass's departure was ) influence how I feel about characters.



I dunno dude you  sounds kinda hypocritical cuz when we were arguing about Wally West vs. Deathstroke it sounded more like plain character bashing. There's nothing to be ashamed of for feeling disdain for a shitty editorial decision.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> She was never supposed to inherit the mantle of Batgirl like so many others in stories today her promotion was a result of PIS. From her character derailment to pushing Cassandra out of the way so she could become Batgirl. Plus, like Dick she's also a replacement until the true wearer of the cowl returns.



Okay, but thats no reason to hate the character. Barry's return has pretty much shoved Wally into limbo for the time being, but I dont hate Barry for it.



> I dunno dude you  sounds kinda hypocritical cuz when we were arguing about Wally West vs. Deathstroke it sounded more like plain character bashing. There's nothing to be ashamed of for feeling disdain for a shitty editorial decision.



Don't even.

I wasn't bashing the character, I like Deathstroke. I was bashing Meltzer for writing everyone else but Deathstroke as idiots.

Also, like I said, I have no problem with hating on editorial decisions. I just dont understand why people would hate a character solely because of an editorial decision. Not saying people here do, just that some people in general do.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2010)

Batman #700 was fucking insane


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> Batman #700 was fucking insane



In the best way possible.

Still a tad confused about Nichols, could just be because I haven't slept in a day and a half.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2010)

The reveal of who Damian rescue at the end of the Kubert story 


Also  at Dick pulling out the Escrima sticks again


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Okay, but thats no reason to hate the character. Barry's return has pretty much shoved Wally into limbo for the time being, but I dont hate Barry for it.



As you shouldn't however on the count of the fact that it's the fact that you're seeing chicks like Steph who has suffered character derailment TWICE I don't see why I shouldn't be mad at her. They've pulled this shit on her twice in a row. On both of her best friends. In war games she took Tim's mantle as Robin and now she's done it to Cassandra. It makes me want to dub her with. New name: costume thief 








> I wasn't bashing the character, I like Deathstroke. I was bashing Meltzer for writing everyone else but Deathstroke as idiots.



Which is the same way they're writing Cassandra. While Stephanie is getting the pretty miss princess treatment Cassandra Was thrown away like a dried up wash cloth. 

Also, like I said, I have no problem with hating on editorial decisions. I just dont understand why people would hate a character solely because of an editorial decision. Not saying people here do, just that some people in general do.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> The reveal of who Damian rescue at the end of the Kubert story



I KNOW.

Not to mention Damian's appearance in the OTHER "Tomorrow" story. 

Curious though how Tim will fit into the DCUified batman beyond verse, because im pretty sure the joker was in that fight. Or if its just Morrison having fun and the mini series will just be DCAU with slight tweaks.



> Also  at Dick pulling out the Escrima sticks again



Definitely! I loved his "Wow." remark ha. 

Also, loved Dick's breakdown of the case towards the end. 

@Blaze, Steph didn't *steal* the robin costume any more than Dick *stole* the batman costume.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:
			
		

> @Blaze, Steph didn't *steal* the robin costume any more than Dick *stole* the batman costume.



Pffft Dick pretty much had successor written on his back; Steph costume jacked Tim's Robin outfit. It was character derailment at it's finest.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2010)

You know its weird, I wouldn't have minded Kollins filling in Quitely pages if he drew like he usually does (scratchy and chaotic) instead of this new fancy painted finish he's been recently working, just seems odd when next to Quitely

also quick  at Dick and Damian taking a pizza break


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2010)

No matter when.
No matter where.
No matter how dark.


Nuff Said


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> No matter when.
> No matter where.
> No matter how dark.
> 
> ...



To 700 More!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> You know its weird, I wouldn't have minded Kollins filling in Quitely pages if he drew like he usually does (scratchy and chaotic) instead of this new fancy painted finish he's been recently working, just seems odd when next to Quitely



Yea, comparing it to his Rogues work it was pretty odd.



> also quick  at Dick and Damian taking a pizza break



Ha I would have loved to see the owner's reaction to Dick nonchalantly walking up to the counter like he's NOT the goddamn batman and just ordering a pizza and a cup of joe.



Taleran said:


> No matter when.
> No matter where.
> No matter how dark.
> 
> ...



Yea, I kinda got chills haha.

@ Blaze
Story involving character temporarily being restricted from hero duty =! Character derailment.

Cass's OYL turn into a maniacal dragon lady, then abandoning the batgirl because she "fought for bruce" despite saying "I fight for the symbol" earlier is character derailment.

Tim being found out by his father and being forced to quit being Robin then working out said father issues and becoming robin again is not. Steph was only robin for like, 3 issues? Calling that character derailment is just being overly dramatic.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2010)

"What can we beat but Never defeat?"

*Time and the Batman*


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2010)

700 was ok but honestly I wasn't blown away. 

The way Morrison describes Terry McGinnis as a twin or whatever, makes me wonder if he's Damian's clone bro Talia mentioned. Would that make sense at all?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2010)

The timing doesn't add up 15 years in the future is the Damian time, the kid would be much older by then and there was mention of parents.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2010)

Right but remember in the DCAU Terry turned out to be the son/clone of Bruce set up with his fake parents. So it'd be a similar idea with Damian replacing Bruce and Terry being a more literal son of Bruce. And Damian tries to convince 2 Face 2 that the baby isn't a twin, that the parents aren't anyone special. 

But yes it would have to mean Talia was off about 15 years.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2010)

Probably just another piece of fun Bat trivia thrown into this issue along with all the other countless references.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Steph was only robin for like, 3 issues? Calling that character derailment is just being overly dramatic.



She made a cameo in Teen Titans when she met Conner (Superboy) who kept harassing her asking why she's Robin. Steph deciding to take Tim's cowl and not thinking about his feelings was derailment.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> 700 was ok but honestly I wasn't blown away.
> 
> The way Morrison describes Terry McGinnis as a twin or whatever, makes me wonder if he's Damian's clone bro Talia mentioned. Would that make sense at all?



That's be a kick-ass twist.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> She made a cameo in Teen Titans when she met Conner (Superboy) who kept harassing her asking why she's Robin. Steph deciding to take Tim's cowl and not thinking about his feelings was derailment.



Yea I just checked, she was only in 3 issues of Robin as Robin, then got fired. 

I don't think you know what character derailment is.


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea I just checked, she was only in 3 issues of Robin as Robin, then got fired.



I never said that she wasn't

Count TT issue that's 3 1/2 issues.



> I don't think you know what character derailment is.



Actually, I do.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 9, 2010)

#700 was a freaking mess to read.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2010)

You are a freaking mess to read.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 9, 2010)

I liked it, probably my pick for best issue of the week.  Yes even better than SHIELD


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Actually, I do.



Then where's the derailment?

Tim quitting as Robin to honor the wishes of his father and Steph choosing to be Robin to get back at him after seeing Tim kiss another girl are both pretty in character.

Also if I remember correctly steph even acted a little guilty when he confronted her about it, although I think she got canned before they ever really talked about it.

Neither of them acted largely out of character.



Parallax said:


> I liked it, probably my pick for best issue of the week.  Yes even better than SHIELD



Same here, although that's largely in part due to how much I like the characters, whereas SHIELD is all new.

Also, Secret Six would have been my favorite DC book this week, if not for Batman. Seriously badass shit.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2010)

haha I completely forgot that in DCU 1,000,000, it was said that Two-face was defeated once and forall by one of Bruce's successors


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2010)

> Tim quitting as Robin to honor the wishes of his father and Steph choosing to be Robin to get back at him after seeing Tim kiss another girl are both pretty in character.



In character for Tim but not Stephanie. 

If she did that to get back at him why didn't she do that when there were similar situations?

Huh, then why didn't she get back at her when he kicked the shit out of her in Red Robin?



> Also if I remember correctly steph even acted a little guilty when he confronted her about it, although I think she got canned before they ever really talked about it.



And then after War games in OYL

she's shown to be more competent than Tim when she' able to prioritize the situation and you have Bruce talking to her about withholding information from Tim so he's prepared for the unexpected during Batman R.I.P. And in Batman: Gotham Underground you have her serving him in a fight.

Her competency goes up and down so much it's like a goddamn roller coaster.



> Cass's OYL turn into a maniacal dragon lady, then abandoning the batgirl because she "fought for bruce" despite saying "I fight for the symbol" earlier is character derailment.



Not to mention:

    *  The mini series about her derailed her character even more. Her improved language skills were taught (she learned to read English, and speak and read Navajo) by Albert, off screen. And she became good with using a computer by herself. Her deep rooted refusal to kill anyone was removed in order for her to kill her dad and Deathstroke. Her body language (which was used by her to know that Batman was Bruce Wayne) was nerfed in order to let an old man lie to her right in front of her face. And if that wasn't enough, her past was changed from loving her father but escaping from him because her first kill was the first time she saw someone die which made her realize how wrong her life was, into hating her father during her entire life and actually having to watch him kill people right in front of her eyes without her caring at all.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> In character for Tim but not Stephanie.
> 
> If she did that to get back at him why didn't she do that when there were similar situations?


You mean why didn't she choose to be Robin? Im pretty sure the position was occupied at the time. 

Although when she feels Tim has screwed up in the past she has acted petty before


> Huh, then why didn't she get back at her when he kicked the shit out of her in Red Robin?



Im assuming you meant why didn't she get back at him? Because she knew she kinda had it coming due to her actions towards the end of the Robin series. Also, Tim was in a pretty bad place there, so I can see why she'd let it slide.



> she's shown to be more competent than Tim when she' able to prioritize the situation and you have Bruce talking to her about withholding information from Tim so he's prepared for the unexpected during Batman R.I.P. And in Batman: Gotham Underground you have her serving him in a fight. Her competency goes up and down so much it's like a goddamn roller coaster.



Prioritize what situation? But how does Bruce telling her to withhold info from Tim in order to prepare him make her competency unusually high? All it meant was that Bats trusted her, and since she's wanted to prove herself to Bats for awhile of course she'd jump on it. As for gotham underground, haven't read it. I agree her competency does fluctuate, especially in her ongoing, but not to the point of character derailment.



> Big paragraph about Cass


Okay yea, see how her personality is fundamentally and altogether altered to the point where she's almost unrecognizable as a character? THATS character derailment.


----------



## Bender (Jun 10, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Im assuming you meant why didn't she get back at him? Because she knew she kinda had it coming due to her actions towards the end of the Robin series. Also, Tim was in a pretty bad place there, so I can see why she'd let it slide.



This was BEFORE he left. 




> All it meant was that Bats trusted her, and since she's wanted to prove herself to Bats for awhile of course she'd jump on it.



When it comes to Tim he does trust her. But that doesn't mean he trust her in general. War Games showed us that.

Here's her character derailment

Stephanie already has everything. I'm not sure there will be growth. She'll start an adventure not knowing something, struggle with it, and at the end will know it, just as they did in Nightwing and Robin and so forth. Her story (so far) is not about her development as a person, or even arguably as a hero. She's already a hero, she learned to be so in Africa. It's more of a serial than character development. A line, rather than an incline.

What else is there left for her?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 10, 2010)

Have I already mentioned here that the Brave and the Bold comic is awesome?

because it is too awesome almost

*Spoiler*: _Ninjas?_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 10, 2010)

So I'm reading #700 again but with the annotations.

Fuck, is it crazy.

Wish I could say the art was consistently good.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 10, 2010)

#700 really wasn't that hard to read...


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 10, 2010)

The Crime Alley brawl.  

Such movement!  And unfolding narrative!


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 10, 2010)

Plus, Terry!?!


----------



## Taleran (Jun 10, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> So I'm reading #700 again but with the annotations.
> 
> Fuck, is it crazy.
> 
> Wish I could say the art was consistently good.



Its not nearly as crazy as Morrison's Vertigo stuff its pretty tame really and does a good job explaining itself in the story. Also the only art muck up is the Finch stuff at the end


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Its not nearly as crazy as Morrison's Vertigo stuff its pretty tame really and does a good job explaining itself in the story. Also the only art muck up is the Finch stuff at the end



Agreed, for the most part its pretty simple. I can see why someone might need to reread it once, but other than that yea, its not hard to understand the story. Ha Taleran you would love the DC Batman board.

So much hate about how Morrison is a crap writer because his stories "have too much crap to the point where they dont make sense" "try to hard to be intelligent but end up not meaning anything" 

Not to mention the scores who think he's "ruining" batman simply by telling stories besides gritty gotham crime stuff.

Haha, the most hilarious one though is someone went on this huge tirade about how the only reason Morrison gets so much praise is because anybody can be a comic reviewer, and that "If a journalist from the NY times reviewed his comics they would pick him apart mercilessly, comic reviewers dont have degrees so they dont know what they're talking about " 

Naturally, posting an excerpt of a review for All Star Supes from a NY Times journalist with an english degree from harvard put a smile on my face.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Its not nearly as crazy as Morrison's Vertigo stuff its pretty tame really and does a good job explaining itself in the story. Also the only art muck up is the Finch stuff at the end



It wasn't exactly great art wise either. Daniels' art didn't fit the script too well, was only ok. Quitely's stuff was amazing but he didn't do too much and got fill in help from... I can't remember who now, but the styles clashed way too much and I didn't like the fill in stuff regardless. Kubert's portion was the only really good one overall.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 10, 2010)

I have no problem with Daniel on Batman, he isn't the best by far but hes not bad either and I was initially surprised by Kollins segment but it wasn't bad art.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 10, 2010)

I meant more that he didn't seem to work too well within the silver agey time that the first segment took place.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 10, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I meant more that he didn't seem to work too well within the silver agey time that the first segment took place.



Agreed.

Daniels isn't a bad artist, but he didn't really fit that section. Minor complaint though.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 10, 2010)

I liked Daniel's stuff, overall the art on this one was pretty good.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 10, 2010)

Meh, maybe you guys are taking the artwork too seriously, I thought the it was pretty good the whole way through for being an anniversary issue and all. Compared to Deadpool #900 and shit...this blew it out of the water. Personally, I liked the parts Quietly drew the best. 

Who the fuck was that baby, didnt they say its parents was something McGinnis or something?


----------



## Bender (Jun 10, 2010)

Daniels art is beautiful 

To say that something is really wrong with it is like you're asking people to call you a crackhead


----------



## Taleran (Jun 10, 2010)

typhoon72 said:


> Meh, maybe you guys are taking the artwork too seriously, I thought the it was pretty good the whole way through for being an anniversary issue and all. Compared to Deadpool #900 and shit...this blew it out of the water. Personally, I liked the parts Quietly drew the best.
> 
> Who the fuck was that baby, didnt they say its parents was something McGinnis or something?



Its Terry and him and old Damian are shown on the next page.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Daniels art is beautiful



I don't think I'd ever describe his art that way. It doesn't look nearly clean or crisp enough. But it does look pretty good in grim n gritty stuff like Batman RIP.


----------



## Bender (Jun 11, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I don't think I'd ever describe his art that way. It doesn't look nearly clean or crisp enough. But it does look pretty good in grim n gritty stuff like Batman RIP.



Yeah, that's the stuff I was talking about

Storylines like Battle for the cowl and the whole Black Mask sucked tho


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 11, 2010)

Daniels did better in RIP art-wise than #700, IMO.


----------



## mow (Jun 11, 2010)

Story was great. Art was a clusterfuck, except Kubert + Quitely


----------



## Slice (Jun 12, 2010)

I like Daniels art for the most part but it's not fair having him in the same issue as Kubert and Quitely - its hard to not look sub par compared to this. Finch could have been left out completely.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 12, 2010)

I somewhat disagree -- Daniels art in #700 was cluttered to visually read.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 12, 2010)

> *SUPERMAN/BATMAN #76
> Written by JUDD WINICK
> Art by MARCO RUDY
> Cover by NIC KLEIN*
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 12, 2010)

That is a very strange story to tell.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 12, 2010)

Winick was supposed to take over the main Batman book and make it more tied into the DCU, but gave it up to Daniel when he signed on for Generation Lost.  I'm guessing some time got freed up and he's using a script he would have used in Batman had he not left.  But that's my theory in any case.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 12, 2010)

Be interesting to read.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 13, 2010)

Third Doctor said:


> Winick was supposed to take over the main Batman book and make it more tied into the DCU, but gave it up to Daniel when he signed on for Generation Lost.  I'm guessing some time got freed up and he's using a script he would have used in Batman had he not left.  But that's my theory in any case.



I get the why but at this point the story really seems needless.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 13, 2010)

it could still be somewhat enjoyable


----------



## Bender (Jun 13, 2010)

Meh, I don't read Superman/Batman ever since Jeph Loeb left the title.


----------



## Slice (Jun 13, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> Meh, I don't read Superman/Batman ever since Jeph Loeb left the title.



Not sure if serious. 



The only thing of that book that i read was the Supergirl arc and that was only because of Michael Turner.


----------



## Bender (Jun 13, 2010)

Slice said:


> Not sure if serious.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 13, 2010)

Since when does Bender joke?

. . . /sarcasm


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 13, 2010)

Its not like superman/batman took a huge nosedive once loeb left.

The Sam Loeb+crapload of other people issue was good, I liked most of Mike Johnson's run, and of course Kelly's annuals were great.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 13, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I get the why but at this point the story really seems needless.



Seems simple to me, a straight up Batman-Superman team-up, only happened in WF #4 and that was part of a larger story.  Solicit text just seems wonky to me in describing it


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 13, 2010)

On the Cassandra Cain-Billy Tucci rumour:



			
				 komodo112 said:
			
		

> I promised you all an update.
> 
> He had a major line and it was a miracle I got a chance to speak with him. I know this is a weird answer but here it is.
> 
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Jun 13, 2010)

> *TIME MASTERS: VANISHING POINT #3
> Written by DAN JURGENS
> Art and cover by DAN JURGENS & NORM RAPMUND*
> The Time Masters have been coming up short in their search for Batman throughout the time stream, so Rip Hunter reluctantly turns to some experts on the subject...the Linear Men are back!
> ...


----------



## Bender (Jun 13, 2010)

^

And in a plot twist the linear men turn out to be the future selves of the Bat-family


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 13, 2010)

When was the Linear Men last used? 52 with Waverider?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 13, 2010)

I think Rip mentioned them early in BG, but other than that yea.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 14, 2010)

I will not be reading Time Masters


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 14, 2010)

Will anyone?


----------



## Slice (Jun 14, 2010)

I'll give issue 1 at least a try.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2010)

I probably will.

If only for Rip and Booster. Also, superman will probably do some epic shit.

Finally, cover for B & R 16. ITS THE GODDAMN BAT*MEN*


This would be a freaking amazing cover if it didn't look like Dick was riding Damian haha. But bruce (im assuming due to body size) looks epic as fuck.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 14, 2010)

that cover, damn this is gonna be amazing when it's all over.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 14, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I probably will.
> 
> If only for Rip and Booster. Also, superman will probably do some epic shit.
> 
> ...



CAN NOT. . . UNSEE. . .


----------



## Slice (Jun 14, 2010)

Funny thing is, if you change Damian for a flying carpet the picture still works.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 14, 2010)

Or a nuclear bomb (a la Dr. Strangelove)

Or a go-kart

It kinda bugs me how much this prevents me from thinking this cover is OMGWTFAWESOME.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 15, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne_


----------



## Parallax (Jun 15, 2010)

The art looks good


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 15, 2010)

Friendlier than the previous issue.


----------



## typhoon72 (Jun 15, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I probably will.
> 
> If only for Rip and Booster. Also, superman will probably do some epic shit.
> 
> ...



...cover ruined


----------



## Taleran (Jun 16, 2010)

I have found my all time favorite Batman panel


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 16, 2010)

That panel is Bat-Morrison hater repellent.


----------



## Bender (Jun 17, 2010)

OI OI OI OI!

Question you guys:

What issue is it that Barbara meets the Joker again when she's in a  wheelchair and he's torturing her and trying to remember if he's met her?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 17, 2010)

final issues of the last volume of BoP.  It ends with Babs knocking his teeth out


----------



## Taleran (Jun 17, 2010)

I just noticed the Tim Drake cameo in 700


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 17, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I just noticed the Tim Drake cameo in 700



Where?

Im hoping you dont mean the joker...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 17, 2010)

That movie didn't click the first time I read so yeah that is what I meant.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 18, 2010)

Taleran said:


> That movie didn't click the first time I read so yeah that is what I meant.



Yea, I love Morrison's take on batman beyond as far as the "bat future" goes, but I really hope that whole thing just gets ignored. They aren't even the same character.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 18, 2010)

They aren't even the same character?  Huh?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 18, 2010)

animated tim drake was more like jason todd


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 18, 2010)

A douchey tim drake with emotional immaturity?  Yeah...that's a good description.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 18, 2010)

I don't get it.  The two stories clearly aren't the same.  Why are some folks treating them as if they are?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 18, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> I don't get it.  The two stories clearly aren't the same.  Why are some folks treating them as if they are?



They aren't, im just saying.

I like the batman beyond verse, and id be totally cool with morrison's depiction of it post 666 as the actual bat future. I just dont like that Tim gets turned into the joker. Kind of a bummer ha.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 18, 2010)

Winick talks Red Hood and his S/B arc


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 18, 2010)

Again, they aren't the same story.

What are you doing?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm guessing it just gives him bad memories


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 18, 2010)

Obviously aren't the same story, but I really like that Morrison is taking ideas from Batman Beyond for his bat future. I'd just rather have the whole "Tim turns into the joker" not be one of them.

It doesn't matter though, since due to the nature of the comics industry (and fanbase), I doubt it will ever come to pass in anything but a "possible future", same with 666.

Which sucks, because I would love to drop by a comic book shop in 20 years and see that Damian is the actual Batman.


----------



## Bender (Jun 18, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> final issues of the last volume of BoP.  It ends with Babs knocking his teeth out



Dammit, what a bitch. 


@Pete12 

Not too much like Jason Todd. Todd popped the question of killing many times, while Tim only thought of the idea only once when Clayface reabsorbed a part of him that took on the form of a little girl he had a crush on.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 18, 2010)

Yea but its certainly more jason todd than it is tim drake. IIRC DCAU Tim doesn't really have the caution and intelligence that comics Tim does.

Also, Tim's origin in the DCAU is extremely jason toddish.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 18, 2010)

I don't find much to like with damian batman


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 18, 2010)

Understandable. He can be a bit over the op "gritty" sometimes, but I'd love to see a mini of him. 

Basically, I like him enough that I'd like to see more than just 666 and his section of 700.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 19, 2010)

I find Damian Batman pretty interesting.  I really would like to see a mini or something written by Morrison at some point.


----------



## Bender (Jun 19, 2010)

> Also, Tim's origin in the DCAU is extremely jason toddish.



Okay, no he is not that toddish in Superman: for the man who has everything

He dropped the Black Mercy on Mongul 

I doubt DCAU Tim could ever have the balls to do something like that.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 19, 2010)

What does that have to do with his origin?

And DCAU Tim almost killed Clayface (batman stopped him), so i wouldn't be so sure.


----------



## Bender (Jun 19, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> What does that have to do with his origin?



If I remember correctly didn't DCAU Tim become Robin after his father was murdered by Two-face? That's a bit different than Todd who became Robin after being caught stealing wheels of the Batmobile. 



> And DCAU Tim almost killed Clayface (batman stopped him), so i wouldn't be so sure.



Yeah, I know that 

that's the only similarity and aside from the fact they were both found off the street.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 19, 2010)

Bender said:


> If I remember correctly didn't DCAU Tim become Robin after his father was murdered by Two-face? That's a bit different than Todd who became Robin after being caught stealing wheels of the Batmobile.



Its less different than being a rich kid bat-fan who deduces their identities at age 9 and what not.



Bender said:


> that's the only similarity and aside from the fact they were both found off the street.



Thats a pretty big similarity. And it still doesn't change the fact that he's an amalgamation of Tim and Jason.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 19, 2010)

Between the two, DCAU Tim Drake got it bad.

There was that Clayface girl and then Joker. Oi.


----------



## Bender (Jun 19, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Its less different than being a rich kid bat-fan who deduces their identities at age 9 and what not.



Ain't Tim middle class? 




> Thats a pretty big similarity. And it still doesn't change the fact that he's an amalgamation of Tim and Jason.



Robin (Tim Drake)



*Early Life*

Tim Drake was the son of Gotham City criminal Steven "Shifty" Drake, who was often a thug for the crimelord Two-Face. He had very little respect for his father, and often had to fend for himself. Around the age of 10, Tim began to idolize Gotham City hero Batman and placed newspaper clippings on his wall. After Batman left a batarang behind at a crime scene, Tim found it and began using it himself.

When his father double crossed Two-Face, he left Tim a note and a key to a Gotham City airport locker. This key was discovered by Two-Face's henchmen when they briefly kidnapped young Tim. Two-Face flipped his coin, and decided to execute Tim, but Batman showed up and rescued him.

Soon after, they discovered that Tim's father was killed outside of Gotham. With no place to go, Bruce Wayne adopted Tim and began to put him under his tutelage as the next Robin.[5]


*Adventures As Robin*

Almost immediately, Robin began working in the field at age 13. One of his first acts was helping Batman thwart the Joker's attempt to kill Gothamites with his Joker Gas during a New Years Eve celebration.[6]

Later, when Mister Freeze began targeting assorted people in order to destroy people's hope, Freeze went after Bruce Wayne's family. Freeze at first considered to freeze Tim Drake the surrogate son, but ultimately decided to go after Alfred. Tim was left behind to watch over Alfred when Batman and Batgirl went after Mr. Freeze.[7]

During one night of working solo, Tim came to the aid of a young girl with amnesia, whom he named Annie. He developed a bit of a crush on the girl, who seemed to be living in constant fear of an unknown assailant. She later proved to be a lost creation of Clayface, who had created her in order to scout out Gotham for his inevitable return. Unfortunatly the girl had 'forgotten' her purpose and continued to run. When Clayface reabsorbed the girl, Tim took her 'murder' very hard and almost killed Clayface. [8]

When Bruce Wayne went mysteriously missing, Tim was left to protect Gotham on his own, while Nightwing and Batgirl went to search for him, thinking that Ra's al Ghul had a hand in the disappearance. When Superman arrived, growing concern himself, he and Robin teamed-up with Superman masquerade as the missing Batman, and Tim being his guide. Together the duo discovered that Bruce was actually under Brainiac's mind controlling nanites. Together they managed to save Bruce and again destroy Brainiac.[9]

At some point in his life as Robin, Tim Drake became a member of a superhero group known as the Titans, as mentioned by Batman.[10]

Sometime after Dick Grayson left Gotham for good to establish himself in another city, Robin was patrolling alone one night. Upon hearing a scream of terror, Robin thought he was saving a lone woman from thugs but instead, fell into a trap set by the Joker and Harley Quinn. For three long weeks at the old Arkham Asylum, the Joker systematically tortured Tim with electro-shock and chemical injections, learning secrets entrusted to Robin. Decided to further hurt Batman, the Joker then molded him into a crude version of himself, painting his skin white, dying his hair green and twisting Tim's mouth into a grotesque Joker-like grin. Re-naming him "Joker Junior" or "Jay" the Joker claimed Drake as his and Harley's new son, and planned on using Drake to destroy Batman. During the battle that followed, the Joker gave Tim a gun and ordered him to kill Batman with it. Drake laughing uncontrollably battled with the decision and then killed the Joker instead, after which he completely broke down in the arms of Batgirl.

A close friend of the Wayne family, Dr. Leslie Thompkins restored Drake to normal. However, Batman, feeling responsible for what happened, forbade Tim from donning the Robin costume ever again. Drake went out on his own as a hero and attempted several times to mend things with Batman only to fail.


Similarities & Differences 



> In the comics, Tim Drake was the third person to take the identity of Robin. The, second, Jason Todd, was the previous holder of the title until he was killed by The Joker. The animated Tim Drake seems to mix together certain elements of both Jason and the comic-book Tim.
> 
> 
> Like Jason, he was an orphan and a former thief living on the streets until he was taken in by Batman when his father disappeared after working for Two-Face. He also had a very rebellious streak that had a tendency to put him in trouble. Jason was also much more prone to be willing to endanger the lives of criminals if provoked and the animated Tim almost killed Clayface after his absorption of Annie. It is also worthy to note that, like Jason, the animated Tim's career as Robin was brought to a tragic and horrifying end by The Joker.
> ...



So as you can see you're one number shy of how old DCAU Tim is also less of the rebel that his comic-book counterpart Jason is. 

And to be frankly honest; DCAU shares the same number of qualities for both Tim and Jason. 



Anyways, I am LOVING Batman Gothic 

Taken from book

Two mooks are robbing some poor poor schmuck

_Mook 1: (Flashes switchblade at business man) That's it Gobbets...Then we mail them to your wife. And then we pay her a visit. Gobbets _

(Mook1 looks behind him and sees Mook 2 nowhere in sight)

_Mook 1: That's right. Isn't that right Shadey? Shadey?

Mook 1: That's some joke Shadey. Shadey? What's the?

Chilling voice: Gotham city is hell


Mook 1: Shadey is that you?

Batman: We are all in hell


(Bats flaps his cape looking like SMT: Nocturne Lucifer)

Batman: AND I AM THE KING OF HELL! 

Mook 1: No

(Shits himself and begs for mercy)

Mook 1: I didn't mean to... Don't..._


----------



## Bender (Jun 19, 2010)

> *
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> ? Art and cover by TONY DANIEL*
> 
> ...







> *Written by GRANT MORRISON
> ? Art and cover by TONY DANIEL*
> Grant Morrison and Tony Daniel continue their captivating untold tale of Bruce Wayne and his adventures between BATMAN R.I.P. and FINAL CRISIS! Discover the shocking secrets that point toward THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE that we couldn't show you until now!
> 
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 20, 2010)

*slow clap* lol Blaze


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2010)

Indeed, Blaze you are funny as hell.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 20, 2010)

DCAU Tim is a kid friendly Jason Todd, please stop arguing about it.


----------



## Bender (Jun 20, 2010)

Mook 1' dialogue is hilarious

I'm gonna send the mail to your wife...  Then we're gonna do ya wife


----------



## mow (Jun 20, 2010)

This is a fanmade bat movie. Only 6 minutes into it, but I'm really enjoying it


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 20, 2010)

Fuck, reminds me of the Arkham Asylum fan adaptation before it was taken down.


----------



## Bender (Jun 20, 2010)

I swear to god these Steph Batgirl fans are so fucking retarded.

I'm arguing with this chump on DC comics message board who says that the current series is an improvement over the last and has sold more. 


Not only that but the dumb fuck says that Tim, Nightwing and Bruce can trounce on Cassandra in a fist fight.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2010)

Of course they could. I mean, we saw Tim whoop her in h2h during OYL 

/a troll is I 

But while I loved the old batgirl series, I also like the new one. Not a weekly buyer, but I'll get an issue ever so often while DLing the rest. I think Miller is getting better with writing Babs and making Steph NOT look like a total noob. Last issue with steph vs. mind controlled Cat, Man Bat, and Huntress was solid, and Steph skydiving into the metaphorical lion's den was pretty awesome.

Anyways, that 703 cover is . Tim and Damian may hate each other, but I absolutely love seeing them together.


----------



## lucky (Jun 20, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Anyways, that 703 cover is . Tim and Damian may hate each other, but I absolutely love seeing them together.



Damian is awesome together with anybody.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2010)

True. I just like Tim and Damian a lot because it reminds me of how I used to be with my little brother. Im normally extremely composed and not easily rattled, but my brother always knew exactly what to say to piss me the hell off.

Really looking forward to the next issue of Red Robin. Especially because IMO Damian is totally in the right here. Kinda hoping that during the fight Damian opens up about how much he likes being Robin and about all he's given up in the process. Pretty sure Tim isn't aware that Damian basically got disowned by his mom.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 20, 2010)

oh jesus christ Blaze, way to take a guy by surprise


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 20, 2010)

Yeah, Batgirl isn't that bad.  It's mediocre.

The biggest problem is the stifling air of irreverence; BQM tries to inject flair, wonder, and bravura into practically every scene.

Stephanie's been around for what? Over twenty years? _Please._

The other main character is pushing thirty.  She's a seasoned professional crime-fighter too.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 20, 2010)

Cassandra Cain fanboy that I am, I have nothing against Stephanie.

Pity I can't say the same for the entire Cass-Cult. . .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Yeah, Batgirl isn't that bad.  It's mediocre.
> 
> The biggest problem is the stifling air of irreverence; BQM tries to inject flair, wonder, and bravura into practically every scene.
> 
> ...



Thank you. Thats the main thing i've always tried to get across to rabid cass fans. That while its not necessarily good, its not the godawful trainwreck that some cass fans make it out to be.

But I think a lot of Steph being portrayed as a superhero in training is to attract new readers whose only exposure to Steph has been Wargames. 



Comic Book Guy said:


> Cassandra Cain fanboy that I am, I have nothing against Stephanie.
> 
> Pity I can't say the same for the entire Cass-Cult. . .



Yea, DC Batgirl forums is hilarious. Both Cass and Babs fans jump on the "hate steph" bandwagon.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 20, 2010)

The clueless new girl with a chip on her shoulder and something to prove bit can work for Stephanie.

Babs?  Not so much.

A lot of the adults are portrayed as bumbling teenagers.  It makes no sense.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2010)

Agreed. Babs' characterization is certainly one of the weaker points of Batgirl, but I feel he's getting better. Not saying he's good, but its better than how he wrote her in the earlier issues where she was a superbitch.


----------



## Bender (Jun 20, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:
			
		

> Of course they could. I mean, we saw Tim whoop her in h2h during OYL
> 
> /a troll is I









> But while I loved the old batgirl series, I also like the new one. Not a weekly buyer, but I'll get an issue ever so often while DLing the rest.



It would make me a happy bear if you DL all the issues so that can get DC to understand that we want Cassandra back as Batgirl.




> I think Miller is getting better with writing Babs and making Steph NOT look like a total noob.



Really? Huh, he lessened my hatred for her by tenfold.

I'd still like for her to back to being Spoiler. At least that costume was less flashy and made her look bad-ass. Not that I don't like her it's as you said before BQM portraying her as a clueless klutz really grinded my gears cuz she was in hiding and training so I'm like "Wtf" because of that.

My love for Steph was when she was acting as the light in the darkness for her , the hilarious training session in Batgirl #21 and playing rooftop tag.

However, come her own series it feels like a rendition of Supergirl.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2010)

Bender said:


> It would make me a happy bear if you DL all the issues so that can get DC to understand that we want Cassandra back as Batgirl.



Speak for yourself, I dont want Cassandra back as Batgirl. I think I would rather her pull a Red Robin and take on a new ID and still keep some distance from the batfam.

I dont want her to be completely alienated like she is now, but I also dont want her tied down to gotham and the batfam.

I'd either put her on the Birds (Jade Canary?) or give her a mini that has her based in Asia with a story more involved with the martial arts corner of the DCU. For the immediate future, id just like her to be featured in Red Robin when he goes after Shiva, since Cass is supposedly in Hong Kong and that's basically Shiva's stomping grounds.


----------



## Bender (Jun 20, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Speak for yourself, I dont want Cassandra back as Batgirl.



Ironically, not too many people want Steph as Batgirl.



> I think I would rather her pull a Red Robin and take on a new ID and still keep some distance from the batfam.



Yeeeeeeaaaaaaah, that's a good way of having her suffer from bad writing like she did



> I dont want her to be completely alienated like she is now, but I also dont want her tied down to gotham and the batfam.



The way you describe her possible choices upon re-introduction is pretty much alienation; not to mention if you're a batfam member you're within the vicinity.



> I'd either put her on the Birds (Jade Canary?) or give her a mini that has her based in Asia with a story more involved with the martial arts corner of the DCU.



No way in hell should they bring back that catastrophe creation. Also she already had a mini and it sucked.



> For the immediate future, id just like her to be featured in Red Robin



That's what they should've done with Stephanie since she was originally a character from Robin comics.


----------



## Graham Aker (Jun 20, 2010)

Cass should hook up with Zatanna.


----------



## Bender (Jun 21, 2010)

Btw you guys do you think it's possible that Doctor Simon Hurt is Whisper or Manfred from Batman Gothic?



Both are associated with the supernatural in a way and are related to Bruce and his dad.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 21, 2010)

Bender said:


> Ironically, not too many people want Steph as Batgirl.



Well yea, same could be said about Tim though. A crap load of people wanted Damian out and Tim back in, but most of them have changed their minds after the end of Yost's RR run.

If someone can write good cass stories, it doesn't matter what her Id is.



> Yeeeeeeaaaaaaah, that's a good way of having her suffer from bad writing like she did



Wait, so making her batgirl again means she wont suffer from bad writing, but giving her a new Id will? That makes no sense.



> The way you describe her possible choices upon re-introduction is pretty much alienation; not to mention if you're a batfam member you're within the vicinity.



Even when the birds operated out of metropolis or out of their jet, Oracle and Huntress were still considered part of the batfamily.

Same situation. Also, Nicieza has said that while Tim is based in Gotham, he'll still do a lot of travelling.

I dont think being based in Gotham matters all that much. In fact, I find gotham as a setting kind of boring, especially for Cass.



> No way in hell should they bring back that catastrophe creation. Also she already had a mini and it sucked.



So because she had a mini and it sucked she should never have one again? The mini series format automatically guarantees fail?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 21, 2010)

Adam Beechen is supposedly posting on the BG boards now.

And I can't sign up, since I'm not in the US. . .


----------



## ghstwrld (Jun 21, 2010)

Double-page spread from "Batwoman" #1

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Bender (Jun 21, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Well yea, same could be said about Tim though. A crap load of people wanted Damian out and Tim back in, but most of them have changed their minds after the end of Yost's RR run.





> If someone can write good cass stories, it doesn't matter what her Id is.





> Even when the birds operated out of metropolis or out of their jet, Oracle and Huntress were still considered part of the batfamily.





> Same situation. Also, Nicieza has said that while Tim is based in Gotham, he'll still do a lot of travelling.



You dick head you're right...... 

Damn you!!!  





> I dont think being based in Gotham matters all that much. In fact, I find gotham as a setting kind of boring



HOW DARE YOU!  

If I was Batman I would knock you out! Gotham City is one of the best cities out of all cities in the DCUverse. 



> So because she had a mini and it sucked she should never have one again? The mini series format automatically guarantees fail?



I'm saying she should have a long series and not some crummy mini.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 21, 2010)

Bender said:


> HOW DARE YOU!
> 
> If I was Batman I would knock you out! Gotham City is one of the best cities out of all cities in the DCUverse.


We already have so many books set in Gotham, thats my main reason for wanting some bat characters to broaden their horizons setting wise. Im extremely happy Nicieza has said RR will continue to be somewhat globe trotting.

But with Cass, I feel like there's a lot of potential for stories set in the martial arts corner of the DCU. Sort of like Immortal Iron Fist but obviously less supernatural. 



> I'm saying she should have a long series and not some crummy mini.



I agree, but lets be realistic. If she ever gets a new ongoing, it'll be after either a successful mini or after a successful arc of another book that she's prominent in. Or both.

Thats why I want Nicieza to feature her in RR. It makes sense, I dont think he'd fuck it up, and I think a crapload of cass fans would come out of the woodwork and buy the book.

If DC sees a significant spike in sales of RR during an arc that features Cass Cain, it may prompt them to do something else with the character.



Comic Book Guy said:


> Adam Beechen is supposedly posting on the BG boards now.
> 
> And I can't sign up, since I'm not in the US. . .



"If it makes anyone feel any better (and I suspect it will), I want to assure you that if there are plans for Cassandra's return, I am in no way involved.  "

He also said some stuff about how he likes the current Batgirl book, and some stuff about how its cool people are so passionate about the character.

EDIT: He also commented on the Batman Beyond mini, saying that the story was intentionally constructed to fit with current DCU Bats continuity while at the same time leaving it open as far as whether or not it is ironclad canon.

Im certainly not a fan of Beechen, but he'll get some points if he ties into Morrison's version of beyond. Old man damian ftw.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 21, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> We already have so many books set in Gotham, thats my main reason for wanting some bat characters to broaden their horizons setting wise. Im extremely happy Nicieza has said RR will continue to be somewhat globe trotting.
> 
> *But with Cass, I feel like there's a lot of potential for stories set in the martial arts corner of the DCU. Sort of like Immortal Iron Fist but obviously less supernatural. *



*EX-FUCKING-ACTLY.*



> I agree, but lets be realistic. If she ever gets a new ongoing, it'll be after either a successful mini or after a successful arc of another book that she's prominent in. Or both.
> 
> Thats why I want Nicieza to feature her in RR. It makes sense, I dont think he'd fuck it up, and I think a crapload of cass fans would come out of the woodwork and buy the book.
> 
> If DC sees a significant spike in sales of RR during an arc that features Cass Cain, it may prompt them to do something else with the character.



Indeed.

The problem is, no A-list Bat-writer like Dini and Morrison so far wants to handle her. The last major Bat-event she was involved in was the whole Wayne Murderer-Fugitive storyline. She was exempted from Hush because Jim Lee didn't like the character and Loeb went with that.

Nicieza is gracious enough to actually give her a mention in RR.




> "If it makes anyone feel any better (and I suspect it will), I want to assure you that if there are plans for Cassandra's return, I am in no way involved.  "



He'd better, the fucker.



> He also said some stuff about how he likes the current Batgirl book, and some stuff about how its cool people are so passionate about the character.



Nothing new to fandom. I cite H.E.A.T.



> EDIT: He also commented on the Batman Beyond mini, saying that the story was intentionally constructed to fit with current DCU Bats continuity while at the same time leaving it open as far as whether or not it is ironclad canon.
> 
> Im certainly not a fan of Beechen, but he'll get some points if he ties into Morrison's version of beyond. Old man damian ftw.



He does have stuff that is good. The Batman from Planet X episode from Brave and The Bold, for example.


----------



## Bender (Jun 22, 2010)

> The problem is, no A-list Bat-writer like Dini and Morrison so far wants to handle her. The last major Bat-event she was involved in was the whole Wayne Murderer-Fugitive storyline. She was exempted from Hush because Jim Lee didn't like the character and Loeb went with that.



I wish writers like Jim Lee, Dini, and Morrison would go into detail as to why they think she's like the Karate kid. That is the most retarded description I have ever heard.

It wasn't just the Batman: Bruce Wayne Murderer-Fugitive story arc Cassandra was in the Batman Family/Athena 2001 story arc.

It had gratuitous artwork but was otherwise a good story.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> *EX-FUCKING-ACTLY.*



Knew you'd like that. 

Im pretty sure your pitch is what initially put the idea in my head.



> Indeed.
> 
> The problem is, no A-list Bat-writer like Dini and Morrison so far wants to handle her. The last major Bat-event she was involved in was the whole Wayne Murderer-Fugitive storyline. She was exempted from Hush because Jim Lee didn't like the character and Loeb went with that.
> 
> Nicieza is gracious enough to actually give her a mention in RR.



Honestly i've never ever expected that an A list writer would want to handle Cass. I dont even think an A list writer is necessary.

Just a decent/good writer who gets the character and genuinely wants to write about them. IMO interest in and knowledge of a character can go a long way.

But im really hoping that Nicieza does a RR arc involving Tim going to Hong Kong in pursuit of Shiva, and then teaming up with Cass along the way. I mean he'll definitely need some muscle, that chocolate trick isn't gonna work twice . I asked Nicieza about it on the DC forums and he definitely made it a point to not deny it, while at the same time not confirming it.



> He does have stuff that is good. The Batman from Planet X episode from Brave and The Bold, for example.



True.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 22, 2010)

Bender said:


> I wish writers like Jim Lee, Dini, and Morrison would go into detail as to why they think she's like the Karate kid. That is the most retarded description I have ever heard.



Hush was _the_ Batman event of the time, when it first came out. It even involved Superman.

Us CC fans wondered why she was excluded. There were rumours that either Lee or Loeb or both didn't like her. . . and the former of the two was later confirmed, with Loeb following along with that.

Since then, CC was in her own world, the Bat-family removed from her save Barbara.



> It wasn't just the Batman: Bruce Wayne Murderer-Fugitive story arc Cassandra was in the Batman Family/Athena 2001 story arc.
> 
> It had gratuitous artwork but was otherwise a good story.



The Murderer-Fugitive storyarc was 2002 or 2003, IIRC.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Knew you'd like that.
> 
> Im pretty sure your pitch is what initially put the idea in my head.
> 
> ...



It's not so much that an A-list writer writing her.

It's more or less her being involved -- and I mean, actually involved -- with the Bat-family and their stories.

Look at the latest major Bat-event, Morrison's RIP or the tie-ins with that. Two-Face, Catwoman, Hush, and even Zatanna were involved in the latter.

(And while Barbara is absent, she has _arguably_ grown beyond her Bat-family status. CC, in contrast, while a part of the Bat-family, is remote from it).

The last major time she was involved with them was the whole Murderer-Fugitive arc.

Batman & The Outsiders was a step in the right direction, but Dixon left and CC was discarded.

If she is excluded from the Bat-events, then why include her at all? A-list writers of current Batman like Morrison and Dini can change that if they just, JUST included her somewhat.

Everything up until now is an afterthought, if that oneshot of The Network and Miller's write-out of CC proved anything.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 22, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Double-page spread from "Batwoman" #1
> 
> *Spoiler*: __





  she is ghastly pale. 

As always art layout is just


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2010)

@CBG

I agree, she does need to be included in the batfam, however since DC seems so so hesitant to do so, im fine with taking it slow.

I think the first order of business as far as Cass Cain goes is to simply establish some kind of status quo with the character. The OYL stuff completely trashed her, and I think if someone wants to write about her they shouldn't be forced to deal with that at all. Basically, I dont think thats ever going to completely make sense in any way that isn't retarded, so just glaze over it and then ignore it. 

Sort of like Bart's FMA days. It happened, Bart acknowledges that it happened, but other than that its being completely ignored because it was a crappy direction to take the character.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 22, 2010)

which appeared at the end of  Batgirl #2. What happened?


----------



## Bender (Jun 22, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Hush was _the_ Batman event of the time, when it first came out. It even involved Superman.



No need for a synopsis sir I'm sure we're well aware of that. 

But yes it was quite complete and utter fucking bullshit that Barbara was in it and not Cassandra. It's editorial decisions like this that confirm my suspicions that DC comics don't care many of it's Asian characters. 



> Us CC fans wondered why she was excluded. There were rumours that either Lee or Loeb or both didn't like her. . . and the former of the two was later confirmed, with Loeb following along with that.



Bastards 



> Since then, CC was in her own world, the Bat-family removed from her save Barbara.



Which is what makes these dickheads fucking assholes. They're just as much of a total fucking douches as the buttfuckers that brought Toy Story 3 from a 100% on Rotten Tomatoes to a 98% because they thought it wasn't for kids, and Jonah Hex had a better opening even though the dialogue and writing is atrocious. In addition they barely list any scenes from the movies that troubles them and thought it deserved it' rotten rating. 






> The Murderer-Fugitive storyarc was 2002 or 2003, IIRC.



Nay, it was a 2002 storyline 

Hush was 2002-2003 storyline 

The Batman Family story arc I was talking about is the same 2002-2003 and ended at the the third issue of Batman Hush.

It's ridiculous why is it that people crave a light-hearted Batgirl why didn't they write Cassandra that way? They didn't mind Beechen doing it so rather than bring along Stephanie because of her history as a goof and pissing off thousands of Cass fans do that to her. 

Goddamn hypocrites.

Also instead Stephanie gets the better treatment is granted a moment in the spotlight in Batman new Black Mask arc in OYL.


> It's not so much that an A-list writer writing her.





> It's more or less her being involved -- and I mean, actually involved -- with the Bat-family and their stories.



Had Adam Beechen not come along and destroyed Cassandra's character we would have seen more of her. 





> Batman & The Outsiders was a step in the right direction, but Dixon left and CC was discarded.



That's why CC is always fucked over DC comics is always bullying artist/writers like Chuck Dixon. If you cunts could stand still and take a time to read rather then criticize you'd see how great of a writer he is. Also he can do better than you do sometimes Morrison.  



> If she is excluded from the Bat-events, then why include her at all? A-list writers of current Batman like Morrison and Dini can change that if they just, JUST included her somewhat.



It's because they're lazy and think she's the "Karate kid". If someone could give me a list of  differences separating Cassandra and them I'd appreciate so I can take it up with the twits in the Batgirl sub-forum of DC comics message board.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> @CBG
> 
> I agree, she does need to be included in the batfam, however since DC seems so so hesitant to do so, im fine with taking it slow.
> 
> ...



The thing is, there WAS a status quo for CC.

Much as we all hate it, Adam Beechen did establish the new status quo for CC.

And who has used the character since? Beyond the afterthought appearance?



illmatic said:


> which appeared at the end of  Batgirl #2. What happened?



Question got posed at the Heroes Con.

DC said she's been shelved for now.

Which means. . .

A) They had plans but decide not to use them for whatever reason (no writer plans to use her; no one wants the character; still troublesome to write; no direction for her or etc.)

B) They lied and said that to keep us appeased.



Bender said:


> No need for a synopsis sir I'm sure we're well aware of that.
> 
> But yes it was quite complete and utter fucking bullshit that Barbara was in it and not Cassandra. It's editorial decisions like this that confirm my suspicions that DC comics don't care many of it's Asian characters.
> 
> Bastards



Hush wasn't editorial, however. It was creator -- the artist.

Editorial just didn't challenge that and say, "You need to include her, she's part of the Bat-family."



> Which is what makes these dickheads fucking assholes. They're just as much of a total fucking douches as the buttfuckers that brought Toy Story 3 from a 100% on Rotten Tomatoes to a 98% because they thought it wasn't for kids, and Jonah Hex had a better opening even though the dialogue and writing is atrocious. In addition they barely list any scenes from the movies that troubles them and thought it deserved it' rotten rating.



On that note, thank heck that Armond White is not a top critic.



> Nay, it was a 2002 storyline
> 
> Hush was 2002-2003 storyline
> 
> The Batman Family story arc I was talking about is the same 2002-2003 and ended at the the third issue of Batman Hush.



Ah.



> It's ridiculous why is it that people crave a light-hearted Batgirl why didn't they write Cassandra that way? They didn't mind Beechen doing it so rather than bring along Stephanie because of her history as a goof and pissing off thousands of Cass fans do that to her.
> 
> Goddamn hypocrites.
> 
> Also instead Stephanie gets the better treatment is granted a moment in the spotlight in Batman new Black Mask arc in OYL.



It's not so much as light-hearted Batgirl. . . but so much as wanting Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl.

Jim Lee is one of them. Seriously.



> Had Adam Beechen not come along and destroyed Cassandra's character we would have seen more of her.



Ruined as she is, other Bat-writers are also at fault for neglecting her.

There's little to tie the character into the DCU beyond her 'Batgirl-niche' role.

Nightwing has Teen Titans and Titans. Robin had Young Justice and now Teen Titans and now Red Robin.

CC had Justice League Elite. . . which has long since past.



> That's why CC is always fucked over DC comics is always bullying artist/writers like Chuck Dixon. If you cunts could stand still and take a time to read rather then criticize you'd see how great of a writer he is. Also he can do better than you do sometimes Morrison.
> 
> It's because they're lazy and think she's the "Karate kid". If someone could give me a list of  differences separating Cassandra and them I'd appreciate so I can take it up with the twits in the Batgirl sub-forum of DC comics message board.



It pisses me off that the character DOES have clear potential. . . and DC doesn't recognize it.

I'm seriously going to embark writing out full scripts for my Batgirl proposal and dropping them off to DiDio's table with my contact info attached, this coming Fan Expo.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> The thing is, there WAS a status quo for CC.
> 
> Much as we all hate it, Adam Beechen did establish the new status quo for CC.
> 
> And who has used the character since? Beyond the afterthought appearance?



But obviously it was a shitty status quo, so imo it should be treated just like Bart's flash days.

DC Editorial should just let a new writer pick and choose from those minis as they see fit. Key thing though is that writer has to have an interest in and knowledge of the character.


> There's little to tie the character into the DCU beyond her 'Batgirl-niche' role.
> 
> Nightwing has Teen Titans and Titans. Robin had Young Justice and now Teen Titans and now Red Robin.
> 
> CC had Justice League Elite. . . which has long since past.



I think the outsiders would be a good fit for her if outsiders wasn't such utter shit right now.

Of course, if I ran DC Cass would ultimately (after a short arc in RR then a mini series solidifying her into the DCU) be on an Arsenal led Outsiders done by a not shit creative team.


----------



## Bender (Jun 23, 2010)

They did to her at the beginning of OYL exactly what's happening to Roy in JLA special: Rise of Arsenal. The only difference is his road to despair made sense hers didn't make any goddamn sense other then it's an incompetent writer doing a story involving her.

Jim Lee is only cool to me because of his artwork, and his bringing back "I'm the goddamn Batman" in Batman: All stars. Other then that fuck him he's an asshole



> It's not so much as light-hearted Batgirl. . . but so much as wanting Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl.



The hypocrisy in this is sickening

how many readers paid attention to her when she was Batgirl? 

It was only after she was crippled that readers started caring about her more. 

Seriously, shut the fuck up the readers nowadays don't know what the hell they want.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

I dont want Babs as Batgirl, but I would like to see a walking oracle. I think there's more story mileage there than continually bringing up TKJ anyways.


----------



## Bender (Jun 23, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I dont want Babs as Batgirl, but I would like to see a walking oracle.



Please, oh please don't egg on the Babs fans...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

Its not like the Babs fans are any less rabid than the Cass fans, in general.

Also, very few posters here fly off the handle, even when baited. FYI, you're one of those few ha.


----------



## Bender (Jun 23, 2010)

> Also, very few posters here fly off the handle, even when baited. FYI, you're one of those few ha.



HA HA HA

I know and I love it


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

I still chuckle whenever I think back to your response that time I jokingly mentioned Adam Beechen was one of DCs best writers.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 23, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I still chuckle whenever I think back to your response that time I jokingly mentioned Adam Beechen was one of DCs best writers.



Which is the reason that I now refer to not catching a joke as "Pulling a Blaze" or now I guess it'd be "Pulling a Bender"

Also, Batman #700 left me feeling meh. But Escrima Sticks!


----------



## Bender (Jun 23, 2010)

^

Fuck thinking about Batman #700

Let's think about Batman & Robin #13 coming next month  

pek pek pek


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

Bender said:


> ^
> 
> Fuck thinking about Batman #700
> 
> ...



Fuck thinking about Batman & Robin #13 

Let's think about Streets of Gotham #13 (Hush bitches!),  Return of Bruce Wayne #3 (Avast bitches!), and Detective Comics #866 (Denny's back bitches!) coming out today! 

pek pek pek

EDIT: and Chaos, im like 99% sure i've used the phrase "pulled a blaze" when I didn't realize somebody was joking. Actually, it was in response to you! I was foolish enough to think you were praising Rise of Arsenal and NOT joking. Of course then I noticed who I was responding to and realized the error of my ways.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 23, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> But obviously it was a shitty status quo, so imo it should be treated just like Bart's flash days.
> 
> DC Editorial should just let a new writer pick and choose from those minis as they see fit. Key thing though is that writer has to have an interest in and knowledge of the character.



Yeah, but who does at DC other than Gail Simone?



> I think the outsiders would be a good fit for her if outsiders wasn't such utter shit right now.



DiDio's writing Outsiders right now. . . so, yeah.



> Of course, if I ran DC Cass would ultimately (after a short arc in RR then a mini series solidifying her into the DCU) be on an Arsenal led Outsiders done by a not shit creative team.



Now, if things were REALLY like that way. . .



Bender said:


> They did to her at the beginning of OYL exactly what's happening to Roy in JLA special: Rise of Arsenal. The only difference is his road to despair made sense hers didn't make any goddamn sense other then it's an incompetent writer doing a story involving her.



It's worse that DiDio gave her back to the same writer that ruined her.

Editorial REALLY cares about its characters.

No, truthfully, they just care about its writers.

I asked DiDio myself, point-blank, why he gave CC back to the same writer who ruined her. His passionate answer was that Beechen is a good writer and that he deserves another chance.



> Jim Lee is only cool to me because of his artwork, and his bringing back "I'm the goddamn Batman" in Batman: All stars. Other then that fuck him he's an asshole
> 
> The hypocrisy in this is sickening
> 
> ...



If the rumours were right, DC WAS actually planning to bring Barbara back as Batgirl. But then they chickened out, due to either Batwoman or some other reason.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Yeah, but who does at DC other than Gail Simone?



And thats the predicament. No editorial interest, no writer interest. 

They really should be more open with how they consider writers. Cass has too big a following to be completely ignored.



> DiDio's writing Outsiders right now. . . so, yeah.


ha is he now? I had absolutely no idea whatsoever


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 23, 2010)

Babs is too old to be 'anything' girl.  Except maybe freewheeling stick girl.


----------



## Bender (Jun 23, 2010)

@ Comic book guy

Are you saying that Dan Didio is letting Adam Beechen do Cassandra Cains character AGAIN?!?!



Whip Whirlwind said:


> And thats the predicament. No editorial interest, no writer interest.
> 
> They really should be more open with how they consider writers. Cass has too big a following to be completely ignored.
> 
> ...



Let me guess you've been buying the comic?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

Bender said:


> @ Comic book guy
> 
> Are you saying that Dan Didio is letting Adam Beechen do Cassandra Cains character AGAIN?!?!



Pretty sure he was talking about how Didio let Beechen do those minis even after the strong reaction against his work in Robin OYL.



> Let me guess you've been buying the comic?



Oh hell no. Like I said, it's utter shit. Regardless, I still think the idea of a black ops style superhero team focused on going after criminals is a cool concept, and one that would fit someone like Cass.


----------



## Bender (Jun 23, 2010)

^

It was cooler when The Outsiders were Hunters. Now they're a bunch of fail.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 23, 2010)

Return #3 was good, basically Batman is forced to help Blackbeard find treasure in the Batcave and uses his brains to get around the traps, and he slowly starts getting his wits

Also a big part is set in the present with the JLA's search (WW, tim  coordinates the search ), Grant also explains the Bat cave paintings found in Red Robin


Edit: and before you ask, yes Bruce and Blackbeard do get into a swordfight ... on a bridge made of bones


----------



## Taleran (Jun 23, 2010)

That issue was everything I wanted for Pirates and Batman


----------



## Castiel (Jun 23, 2010)

I loved this line (paraphrased)

"They say Thatch was hanged and it ended the Golden Age of Piracy.  But there is no age for murder and greed"


----------



## Bender (Jun 23, 2010)

Pirate Batman!!!   


Too much goddamn win!!!  

I loved every fucking minute of it!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

Its so awesome seeing things start to come together, with the overlaps between past and present.

Cant wait for cowboy batman.

Also, I find it amusing how it seems like everybody but Marcus To draws Red Robin buff as shit. Glad to see Tim included, was kind of surprised. Liked the "...and robin".


----------



## Taleran (Jun 23, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> I loved this line (paraphrased)
> 
> "They say Thatch was hanged and it ended the Golden Age of Piracy.  *But there is no age for murder and greed*"



Thats because those things are immortal


----------



## Penance (Jun 23, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Its so awesome seeing things start to come together, with the overlaps between past and present.
> 
> Cant wait for *cowboy batman*.
> 
> Also, I find it amusing how it seems like everybody but Marcus To draws Red Robin buff as shit. Glad to see Tim included, was kind of surprised. Liked the "...and robin".



...

And, yeah, Red BrickHouse, indeed...


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 23, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Its so awesome seeing things start to come together, with the overlaps between past and present.
> 
> Cant wait for cowboy batman.
> 
> *Also, I find it amusing how it seems like everybody but Marcus To draws Red Robin buff as shit.* Glad to see Tim included, was kind of surprised. Liked the "...and robin".



I LOLed at that for at least a god 3 minutes


----------



## Taleran (Jun 23, 2010)

You know I think I nailed down what I like most about Morrison's Batman work.

The forward progression. (now that I think about it that is probably also why I really like New X Men, although the Batman stuff is more spaced out over time.)




Also

on the cards in the Cowboy Preview

8 Ace 8 Ace and Hex throws the Joker


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 23, 2010)

not getting the significance of 8 ace 8 ace. It's a card game thing i assume?


----------



## Taleran (Jun 23, 2010)

No its a letter of the Alphabet thing

H A H A (its in the first issue of RIP and its the Hand Joker deals Bruce in DC Universe #0)


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 23, 2010)

Oh right! I forgot all about that. Kinda wondering how the joker would fit into this story though.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 23, 2010)

Its most likely saying oh yeah the Next thing out is Batman & Robin its Joker time.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I LOLed at that for at least a god 3 minutes



Roid Robin 



Taleran said:


> You know I think I nailed down what I like most about Morrison's Batman work.
> 
> The forward progression. (now that I think about it that is probably also why I really like New X Men, although the Batman stuff is more spaced out over time.)



That's always been what I loved most about his Batman work. Its also why for the most part people either love or hate it. 

For a long while Batman was incredibly boring to me because for the most part there was no progression. It was imo just business as usual.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 23, 2010)

Jonah Hex vs Bruce Wayne

I love this series


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 24, 2010)

Morrison using Jonah Hex?

Fucking awesome.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 24, 2010)

I hope he talked to Palmiotti given how insane into detail Morrison usually gets and having spoken to JP at WC, the man comes off like he has a college degree on the old west, he spent years looking stuff up and researching just to do Hex, it would certainly help him out


----------



## Castiel (Jun 24, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> not getting the significance of 8 ace 8 ace. It's a card game thing i assume?



It's the legendary *Dead Man's Hand*.

That's the poker hand "Wild Bill" Hickok had when he was murdered by the coward "Broken Nose Jack" McCall in the town of Deadwood in the year of our lord 1876.


----------



## Bender (Jun 24, 2010)

Phew, I almost had a stroke trying to choke down my hatred of Stephanie in the Batgirl forums of DC comics. 

All of us there came to a satisfying conclusion.

Stephanie is Batgirl material and it's because she acts like Batgirl from 196's and 198 (can't properly remember the dates of her debut) however, because Cass wasn't like Batgirl and invented her own version of Batgirl; she was too perfect a Batgirl. So in other words, she was superior to the Batgirl title.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 25, 2010)

You know what would be hilarious?

If the entire BG community all managed to unite and marched into DC offices to protest.


----------



## Bender (Jun 25, 2010)

^

I'd die of laughter 

It's like a bunch of Twilight fangirls surrounding theaters.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2010)

thats impossible


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 25, 2010)

Since when was Killer Croc a nice guy?

His Joker's Asylum II story. . . nice guy?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 25, 2010)

How did they reverse that?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 25, 2010)

It was explained in a two part fill-in story in Detective

incidently that same "filler" story is hands down the greatest Scarecrow story I've read


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 25, 2010)

Killer Croc w/ vest can singlehandedly take down the entire DCU if he wanted too.


But he's too busy being fly as a muthafucka


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 25, 2010)

goddamnit now i need to read J's Asylum: Croc just to validate these claims of flyness.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 25, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> goddamnit now i need to read J's Asylum: Croc just to validate these claims of flyness.



It's not just that, Croc starts off the issue with some hardcore badassness.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Can't break the chains holding you? Eat your own hands!


----------



## Taleran (Jun 25, 2010)

I only ever liked Killer Croc when he was a representation for Satan. Also in the TAS episode where the villains are swapping stories an Croc's is "I Hit him with a Rock"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 25, 2010)

Kinda odd seeing Croc so nice, but i dont hate it.  His decapitation of that one dude was awesome, and he does indeed look dapper as fuck in that vest.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 25, 2010)

It was a big rock.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jun 25, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Also in the TAS episode where the villains are swapping stories an Croc's is "I Hit him with a Rock"





Agmaster said:


> It was a big rock.


One of only, like ten moments from that show I remember vividly. 


Whip Whirlwind said:


> Kinda odd seeing Croc so nice, but i dont hate it.  His decapitation of that one dude was awesome, and he does indeed look dapper as fuck in that vest.



He ate his own hands

And who would've thought putting a croc-man in formal clothing would look so good?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 25, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> It was explained in a two part fill-in story in Detective
> 
> incidently that same "filler" story is hands down the greatest Scarecrow story I've read



Which issues are these?


----------



## Bender (Jun 25, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> One of only, like ten moments from that show I remember vividly.
> 
> 
> He ate his own hands
> ...





			
				Whip Whirlwind said:
			
		

> Kinda odd seeing Croc so nice, but i dont hate it. His decapitation of that one dude was awesome, and he does indeed look dapper as fuck in that vest.



Fuck that shit 

Remember in Battle for the cowl when he ate Damian's 2 page girlfriend? 

I was like damn Dame you ain't got no girl no more.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 4, 2010)

Anyway, is the new Batman Beyond any good?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 4, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Anyway, is the new Batman Beyond any good?



I considered it "meh", so you'll probably find it to be awful.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 6, 2010)

First issue is basic. #2 and #3 will tell.

Art is not entirely my cup of tea, though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> First issue is basic. #2 and #3 will tell.
> 
> Art is not entirely my cup of tea, though.



That was probably my biggest complaint. If the art is going to continue to be like this I want Terry to keep his mask on 24/7.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 6, 2010)

Back Again




*Spoiler*: _Preview Time_


----------



## lucky (Jul 7, 2010)

wow.  totally awesome.


----------



## Penance (Jul 7, 2010)

Wow...Very NICE...


----------



## Bender (Jul 7, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Back Again
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The "We all fall down" line is a reference to Batman: Gothic story arc


----------



## Parallax (Jul 7, 2010)

God that just looks amazing.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 7, 2010)

Interesting theory I read today from someone who has already read the issue




			
				DavidUzumeri said:
			
		

> Oh my fucking God, Batman and Robin is genius. The entire structure of the series suddenly clicks.
> 
> If Batman and Robin Must Die is RIP as farce, every single arc of Batman and Robin has been a legendary Batman story as farce.
> 
> ...


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 7, 2010)




----------



## Taleran (Jul 7, 2010)

> Even without the meaningless number of potential meanings the word ‘red’ has, even without the golden-ager fanboy alliteration, ‘Red Robin’ is such a poor choice of superhero name. At least try to pretend you’re not still sore about being made redundant by the boss-daddy’s long-lost psycho kid. At least try to stand on your own two little bird-feet.



Gonna get a lot of mileage out of this quote


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 7, 2010)

Yes, Red Robin is an awful awful superhero name.

And this guy is realizing this...14 issues in? Little late to the party there ha. Although I get continued lulz out of seeing ROBW's "Roid Robin"


----------



## Taleran (Jul 7, 2010)

I don't believe he has been reading Red Robin.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 7, 2010)

Im just using the issue number as a way to say that Red Robin has been around for over a year now. I just thought everyone already had their fun with how ridiculous the name is by now.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 7, 2010)

That's a parody though – well, most of it is anyway.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 7, 2010)

Did a good job further cementing the You Won't Believe This Is the Justice League.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 7, 2010)

it was a good read


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> That's a parody though ? well, most of it is anyway.



Yea, it made me chuckle. Not sayin i didn't like it, just that im surprised I guess.

Im actually kinda surprised he spent so much time focusing on Tim but didn't point out how this 17-18 year old kid looks like an NFL linebacker. 

I loved ROBW 3, but i busted out laughing when I first saw that.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 7, 2010)

The point of the bit was people that don't belong there and Tim is one of them. Also on Frank's cover both Dick and Damain's Belts are tumbling Dominoes


----------



## Taleran (Jul 7, 2010)

BEST SINGLE ISSUE OF THE SERIES TO DATE

MY 
FUCKING
GOD


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 7, 2010)

Went to the CBS to get my B&R and RR fix. Realized books wouldn't be in till tomorrow. Cried a little, but then I bought WE3. Feel ashamed for not reading it before.


----------



## mow (Jul 7, 2010)

Taleran said:


> BEST SINGLE ISSUE OF THE SERIES TO DATE
> 
> MY
> FUCKING
> GOD



this, like you wouldnt believe


----------



## Parallax (Jul 7, 2010)

I will have to wait till tomorrow to pick this up :[


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


>



link doesnt work

not sure what to think about 'joker', a lot of what he said sounded like it should be the genuine article. 

Damian has the most fucked up grandfathers ever.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 7, 2010)

I liked Gordon figuring out that its a different Batman



Taleran said:


> The point of the bit was people that don't belong there and Tim is one of them. Also on Frank's cover both Dick and Damain's Belts are tumbling Dominoes



I get that, but still Tim is a part of the family and Morrison is a continuity freak, he has to do _something_

Surprised also they didn't poke fun of the obvious fact that Hal _literally_ should not be in that room.


Guardian paragraph was beyond stupid.  But on the whole another good read from them


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 7, 2010)

Its not that I think Tim specifically was unnecessary, but rather that whole "briefing the JLA on the RoBW" thing. I kinda see that whole scene as unnecessary.

I guess I should withhold judgment till later, but what exactly can the JLA even do? I mean I really dont see everybody time traveling, and outside of that how can they even interact with Bruce?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 7, 2010)

Again, he has to do _something_.

Also god damn that spread with Damian and the crowbar


----------



## Taleran (Jul 7, 2010)

It would be the Joker's sense of humor to have 
*Spoiler*: __ 



A Robin beat a Joker who is really a Robin to death with a Crowbar


----------



## Castiel (Jul 7, 2010)

"You sound just like him"

I keep flip flopping in my head if he means Bruce or Joker


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 7, 2010)

After Damian gives him a lecture? I'm gonna go with Bruce.


----------



## Bender (Jul 7, 2010)

You people suck. 

*Is mad ride broke down b4 making it to the comic book store*


----------



## Taleran (Jul 8, 2010)

Lots of good stuff in here.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

Agree with Tal that it's hands down the best issue to date. My favorite parts were Damian and the Joker as well as Dick and the commish.

So glad Jim made it obvious that he knows he's a different Batman, and that he probably knows that it's Nightwing/1st Robin, just given the way he talks to him in that quasi-paternal tone. Or at least thats what I saw.

Love how everything is falling into place.

As for my other favorite Bat Book. Damn Tim, you're kinda bein an asshole. Sure, Damian kinda had a beating coming for the whole "Gotcha bitch!" moment with the T Rex, but Damian certainly had a reason to be pissed.

Interesting that Tim is goin all Tower of Babel up in this bitch.

Solid issue, and I like how Nicieza writes Damian. Was sort of worried that Damian would be made to look the fool in order to play up Tim. Definitely some great lines. "Looks like you were playing for six hours." and "Cousin Oliver" were my favorites.

And Tim calling damian a homunculus =


----------



## Castiel (Jul 8, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So glad Jim made it obvious that he knows he's a different Batman, and that *he probably knows that it's Nightwing/1st Robin*, just given the way he talks to him in that quasi-paternal tone. Or at least thats what I saw.



This is a given, the way Morrison writes Dick makes it very apparent he spent a month reading nothing but Chuck Dixon comics, and CD established a tangible bond between Jim and Dick.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

HA.

Yea, I figured he knew, just that it hasn't been outright said. Im glad that Morrison isn't leaving Jim in the dark. The Jim/Dick dynamic is just another reason why im enjoying Dick as Batman.

EDIT: Also, I lol'd at Superman and Supergirl being on the list and Superboy not.

Half Superman Half LEX LUTHOR is A-OK, but the genuine article is a potential threat. Way to let bromance cloud your judgment  .


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2010)

Morrison to me was the only writer who could have done such an excellent job transition to Dick as Batman and making it work completely.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

> David U: I don't think Joker has EVER been happier than when Damian annihilated the living hell out of him with a crowbar.
> 
> David B: And the difference between Bruce and Damian is interesting, too. Bruce is the detective. Damian is the dark knight. Because, yes, you will get hit in the face with a crowbar if you fool around.



My thoughts EXACTLY.

Also, they mention how they read some lines in heath ledger's voice, and i've been flipping between Hammil and Ledger ever since TDK.

But that "Looks like everyone dies in the crossfire. Unless...Unless you're as good as HE was." read in Ledger's voice is PERFECT.


----------



## Slice (Jul 8, 2010)

Am i the only one totally not liking the art?

Apart from that this was simply fantastic.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 8, 2010)

Don't be dissing Frazer Irving


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

I thought it fit the issue really well. As far as artists on this book go he's right behind quitely and tied with stewart.


----------



## mow (Jul 8, 2010)

that panel when the joker was covering his face and smiling was one of the most thrilling and terrifying things in existence man ,the art was so spot on there.


----------



## Bender (Jul 8, 2010)

lol  Damian is endless win   

*Damian and Joker are alone in the interrogation room*

Black cop: Open this door boy before I beat yo ass like I did my son last night

White cop: Why are you so angry all the time?

Black cop: Because I'm the only black cop in this scene. 

Joker: ♫ You're just a twerp... ♪ you're just twerp you're just a twerp ♪ that's going to end up married to the crowbar like Jason Todd...  

Damian: O rly?  *reveals crowbar*  I think you're the only here who's about to get down with the crowbar

*Damian whacks Joker with crowbar*

Joker: Tell me does the new Batgirl know you're as girly as she is? 

Damian: 

*Damian goes to town on Joker with crowbar* 

*Angry* black cop: You know what screw im...  

White cop: shouldn't we stop him?

Angry black cop: Naw, it's all good plus that's what that punk bitch Joker gets for screwing over my baby mamma.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jul 8, 2010)

mow said:


> that panel when the joker was covering his face and smiling was one of the most thrilling and terrifying things in existence man ,the art was so spot on there.



I loved that panel

Anyway, B and R seems to be getting too Morrison-y for my liking.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 8, 2010)

What :armcross


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jul 8, 2010)

Taleran said:


> What :armcross



You know my feelings on Morrison, I only started reading B and R because this didnt have that "Morrison" vibe to (I mean it did, but then it didn't to me) but thats coming back now, so *taps out*


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> You know my feelings on Morrison, I only started reading B and R because this didnt have that "Morrison" vibe to (I mean it did, but then it didn't to me) but thats coming back now, so *taps out*



WHAT!? :amazed

I did NOT know these were your feelings on Morrison. I...I don't know WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE!!11!!11


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jul 8, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> WHAT!? :amazed
> 
> I did NOT know these were your feelings on Morrison. I...I don't know WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE!!11!!11



IDK aside from his X Men run (which I loved) I can't really think of anything Morrison's done that I've really cared for (off the top of my head anyway)


----------



## Taleran (Jul 8, 2010)

B&R is still the tamest thing he has done New X-Men was more complex than this.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 8, 2010)

neat, Rachael Maddow wrote the introduction to the Batwoman Hardcover


----------



## Bender (Jul 8, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> neat, Rachael Maddow wrote the introduction to the Batwoman Hardcover



Nice good to see BW is getting the much deserved attention 

Chuck Dixon be damned for thinking homosexual characters are monstrous additions to DC comics.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 8, 2010)

Dixon was taken out of context


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

Taleran said:


> B&R is still the tamest thing he has done New X-Men was more complex than this.



One time when my friend kept complaining about how he doesn't like B & R because of its complexity I told him to read Doom Patrol, saying how it was much simpler and more "reader-friendly".

Many lulz were had.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 8, 2010)

Oh your poor poor friend


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Oh your poor poor friend



Ha me being the nice guy (and morrison fan) I am, I bought the trade he purchased from him. But it was still extremely funny.


----------



## Bender (Jul 8, 2010)

Btw guys hear Batman: Arkham Asylum 2 is going to be Mark Hamill's last work as the joker?




Mickey Mouse said:


> Dixon was taken out of context



Geez, they really need to stop doing that.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2010)

New X-Men was complex?  I thought what made it so great was how simple and straightforward it was.  I honestly think B&R is more complex, not that its that bad in the first place


----------



## mow (Jul 8, 2010)

Honestly, the only Morrison book that took me several re-reads (and few more are needed) is The Invisibles. Everything else was pretty straight forward to an extent, provided you actually gave the guy a chance, accept the challenge and didn't dismiss everything he writes as a drug induced haze.

Still, I laughed @ Whip's mate. I laughed so much. xD



Bender said:


> Btw guys hear Batman: Arkham Asylum 2 is going to be Mark Hamill's last work as the joker?



I certainly hope not! Where did you hear this?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

mow said:


> Honestly, the only Morrison book that took me several re-reads (and few more are needed) is The Invisibles. Everything else was pretty straight forward to an extent, provided you actually gave the guy a chance, accept the challenge and didn't dismiss everything he writes as a drug induced haze.
> 
> Still, I laughed @ Whip's mate. I laughed so much. xD



I agree that Invisibles is his most complex work. However, I went with Doom Patrol because there was much less of a chance of him leafing through before buying, and he'd still be more likely to pick it up even if he did.

I mean, do you remember the first page of invisibles? With all the talk about the egyptians and sacred beetles and what not it would have been an immediate red flag.


----------



## mow (Jul 8, 2010)

I was generally speaking, actually. But I still love how you even planned it through. What an excellent way of leading your mate on into a clusterfuck of a mind spin. Which point in the issue did he just go 

" ...:S..."?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2010)

I loved how wacky Doom Patrol was honestly

Invisibles is pretty fucking weird if you don't pay attention


----------



## Bender (Jul 8, 2010)

mow said:


> I certainly hope not! Where did you hear this?



Mark Hamill to retire joker role after Arkham Asylum 2


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

I don't remember, but I know it was definitely the first issue. Maybe even the first few pages.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2010)

What is Batman Odyssey and why should I care


----------



## Taleran (Jul 8, 2010)

Invisibles also makes the jump from White teen in Britain to Poetry in France circa the time of the Guillotine (the second story arc almost killed the book while it it was coming out in Singles).

The thing also about the Invisibles there is so much of what Morrison believes in in that book its easy to see it in his other works after reading it. Also I think he gets the most flack on the internet because he challenges his audience, he doesn't tell you everything he doesn't hold your hand he has faith that if you stick with it you will understand eventually, where there are other comic book writers (lots at DC) that do not have faith in the audience so they have to explain out every detail.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

@Petes.

It's by Neal Adams, the guy who (along with Denny O Neil) was responsible for taking Batman away from the camp and frivolity of the silver age, iirc.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2010)

I know Petes doesnt read older comics, but how could you not know that one


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2010)

I know who Neal Adams is by name but I couldn't pick out his art in a line up.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2010)

I think I could have guessed that part from the title. edit: was in response to blaze saying batman faces a bunch of challenges, heh. 

Better question, is it any good at all? Is it even worth a download?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2010)

On Morrison (and this goes for Hickman too), I have a love/hate relationship with his teasing future plot threads/not holding your hand approach. 

Often he'll lay out these ideas that you won't be able to see the big picture of for like half a year or more. He just puts out an idea and then moves on, and I want to say "WAIT! NO BACK UP I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT" and Morrison/Hickman is like "LOLNOPE ON TO THE NEXT THING!"

They're both still 2 of my favorite writers.


----------



## Bender (Jul 8, 2010)

Morrison is kind of overrated


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> On Morrison (and this goes for Hickman too), I have a love/hate relationship with his teasing future plot threads/not holding your hand approach.
> 
> Often he'll lay out these ideas that you won't be able to see the big picture of for like half a year or more. He just puts out an idea and then moves on, and I want to say "WAIT! NO BACK UP I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT" and Morrison/Hickman is like "LOLNOPE ON TO THE NEXT THING!"
> 
> They're both still 2 of my favorite writers.



That's actually the reason why I like both of them so much.  Everything matters and at some point it will come back when its needed.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 8, 2010)

And they have so many more ideas and are much more inventive than the other writers it makes the books fun to read. Just stop an think about all the new characters or out of Limbo characters Morrison has used in his Bat run.


----------



## Bender (Jul 8, 2010)

> Just stop an think about all the new characters or out of Limbo characters Morrison has used in his Bat run.



Then how about he bring back Leslie Thompkins? I still rue the treatment they gave her at the end of War games when she faked Stephanie's death just to show the horrors of the costume life. Although, I'm trying not to question Morrison's writing skills what would really put me in shock and awe is if he could do  story arc that involves the current whole Bat-family like Chuck Dixon and Greg Rucka did in No man's land.

It's been forever since there's been a story that's put them all in the limelight.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 8, 2010)

Well Morrison has been pretty clear that his run is about BATMAN and examining what makes him work.  So adding a big event with the whole Bat family wouldn't really work.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 8, 2010)

Bender said:


> Then how about he bring back Leslie Thompkins? I still rue the treatment they gave her at the end of War games when she faked Stephanie's death just to show the horrors of the costume life. Although, I'm trying not to question Morrison's writing skills what would really put me in shock and awe is if he could do  story arc that involves the current whole Bat-family like Chuck Dixon and Greg Rucka did in No man's land.
> 
> It's been forever since there's been a story that's put them all in the limelight.



I'm glad he stayed away from that the extended Gotham BatFamily gets boring very quickly.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 8, 2010)

Parallax said:


> That's actually the reason why I like both of them so much.  Everything matters and at some point it will come back when its needed.


note that I said it's love/hate, not hate.

Batman and Robin is my favorite series right now.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2010)

Invisibles is the most complex of his series, but the space war arc in Doom Patrol is hands down the book that made me feel the stupidest, it honestly all came out like gibberish to me.  I liked how Morrison acknowledged this with Cliff though (definitely his best written character after Niles)


----------



## Bender (Jul 9, 2010)

Okay if Morrison stays away from the extended Bat-family; I'm cool with that but at the very least use the basic Robin, Red Robin Stephanie Oracle Catwoman, and Huntress. You know do a 12 part arc like Hush. Only not crap.

lol @ DC comics message board 

they think Dick is going to die and Tim in his Red Robin role is the new Nightwing of the Bat-family.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 9, 2010)

As much as I love the bat family, Im totally fine with Morrison not touching them. Especially Tim. While I do like how Morrison writes Tim for the most part, Nicieza's holdin it down in RR giving me my fill of Tim stories, and I like that he's keeping Damian, Dick, and Alfred involved.

If anybody's going to do the classic batfam event I hope it's Dini.

Also, Im glad that we're past the point of Morrison being the only one who knows how to write Damian. Nicieza, Dini, and even Miller (as mediocre as he is) have all show they can do cool things with the character. And before someone gets on me for Miller, go read the Damian issues of batgirl and try not to laugh. Have fun.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Invisibles is the most complex of his series, but the space war arc in Doom Patrol is hands down the book that made me feel the stupidest, it honestly all came out like gibberish to me.  I liked how Morrison acknowledged this with Cliff though (definitely his best written character after Niles)



Trying to think how I would rank the arcs of Doom Patrol damn that would be hard but man do I love space war


----------



## Slice (Jul 9, 2010)

Re-read B&R 13 and some parts of RIP for better understanding but i'm still confused how the whole Thomas Wayne situation will work out.

But i still cant feel the art - sometimes his faces look simply ridiculous... especially when Dick gets shot or some of the Jokers expressions.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2010)

Yeah that part was brilliant.  In terms of DP my favorite is probably first Dada arc and the final arc.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

Slice said:


> Re-read B&R 13 and some parts of RIP for better understanding but i'm still confused how the whole Thomas Wayne situation will work out.
> 
> But i still cant feel the art - sometimes his faces look simply *ridiculous*... especially when Dick gets shot or some of the *Jokers expressions.*



working as intended


----------



## Bender (Jul 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> As much as I love the bat family, Im totally fine with Morrison not touching them. Especially Tim. While I do like how Morrison writes Tim for the most part



Yeah, I like him only focusing on Batman but I don't see why it's so hard to do a story involving them. He did included Tim, Dick and Damian in Batman: The Resurrection of Ras Al Ghul.



> Nicieza's holdin it down in RR giving me my fill of Tim stories, and I like that he's keeping Damian, Dick, and Alfred involved.



Ditto



> If anybody's going to do the classic batfam event I hope it's Dini.



My idea for writers in  Bat-family story arc

Writers: Dini, Chuck Dixon, Greg Rucka, Nicieza
Penciler and art: Jim Lee and (or) Tony Daniel 

Also Dini needs to stop being a douche and include Cassandra in one of his stories.

the list of Bat-fam members in the story:
Huntress
Nightwing
Red Robin
Stephanie
Damian
Cassandra





> Also, Im glad that we're past the point of Morrison being the only one who knows how to write Damian. Nicieza, Dini, and even Miller (as mediocre as he is) have all show they can do cool things with the character.[/QUQOTE]
> 
> Damian is easy to write.
> 
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2010)

I love Frazer's faces.  They were one of the best parts of Silent War (specifically everytime Maximus the Mad appears and the sheer look of complete and utter despair he puts on Black Bolt's face)


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 9, 2010)

I get what Slice is saying, Frazer doesn't always pull it off, but most of the time he does and it looks really really great. I wish he could commit to batman as a full time monthly book.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 9, 2010)

Bender said:


> Yeah, I like him only focusing on Batman but I don't see why it's so hard to do a story involving them. He did included Tim, Dick and Damian in Batman: The Resurrection of Ras Al Ghul.



Yea, and it was probably one of the weaker points of his overall run on Batman.



> My idea for writers in  Bat-family story arc
> 
> Writers: Dini, Chuck Dixon, Greg Rucka, Nicieza
> Penciler and art: Jim Lee and (or) Tony Daniel



Well Rucka's at Marvel and Dixon's long gone.

Once Morrison is done with his epic overall batrun I wouldn't mind another large scale event. 

Problem with Morrison is his writing is so different from everyone else, that its kind of odd for others to fit their books in with his overarching narrative. Even with R.I.P, the nightwing and robin tie ins weren't really that connected with the story.



> Damian is easy to write.



Now that he's been developed a bit more he is. Honestly though up until Streets and Red Robin I didn't like it when anybody but Morrison wrote him.

They tended to write him purely as an insufferable brat.



> I still consider him an asshole for putting the final nail in Cassandra's Cain coffin in character derailment graveyard.



Meh, it was editorially mandated and he sure as hell did a better job than Beechen at making the character somewhat usable.


----------



## Bender (Jul 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, and it was probably one of the weaker points of his overall run on Batman.






> Well Rucka's at Marvel



Traitorous dick




> Even with R.I.P, the nightwing and robin tie ins weren't really that connected with the story.



Batman & the Outsiders also tied into R.I.P.

Also Nightwing's R.I.P. book wasn't a tie into the main story if anything Robin's story was.



Now that he's been developed a bit more he is. Honestly though up until Streets and Red Robin I didn't like it when anybody but Morrison wrote him.



> They tended to write him purely as an insufferable brat.



Well considering how violent he is he kind of is. Also he's a lot  cooler when he acts like a brat since it annoys the living hell and counts as  for everyone.




> Meh, it was editorially mandated and he sure as hell did a better job than Beechen at making the character somewhat usable.



Be thankful I'm the only one responding to this and not CBG. 

BQM's portrayal of Cass's views of the Bat symbol not having any meaning since Bruce was "dead" is monotonous. It was made perfectly clear time and time again during the 2000 Batgirl series that Cassandra pledged herself to everything Batman is. Once again it's another example of a writer contradicting Cassandra's character.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2010)

Rucka is at Oni


----------



## Bender (Jul 9, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Rucka is at Oni



That dickhead. 

He's even more of a traitor who backed out of the making of God of war III!


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2010)

Oni was where DC found him to begin with, and where he made the book he's most famous for *Queen and Country*


----------



## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> I love Frazer's faces.  They were one of the best parts of Silent War (specifically everytime Maximus the Mad appears and the sheer look of complete and utter despair he puts on Black Bolt's face)



His Doctor Hurt is also the best in the series so far


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 9, 2010)

Not sure why I thought Rucka was at Marvel, stupidity on my part.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2010)




----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 9, 2010)

Irving's ability to conjure up atmosphere is no joke.  The forest scenes in the ROBW are so vibrant; they're so alive!  

The problem is his work can be rather obtuse.  At some points, you pretty much have to guess at what's supposed to be happening.


----------



## Bender (Jul 9, 2010)

So if Doctor Hurt is "The Devil", does that mean he's Lucifer Morningstar from the Vertigo "Lucifer" series?  Doctor Hurt and Lucifer the two even look alike.

Doctor Hurt



Lucifer Morningstar



Check it out

I found it on Blogspot

It's about Doctor Hurt's identity as Lucifer




So whaddya think?

1 out of 10?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

He is Thomas Wayne, Mangrove Pierce and something that could be called a Devil.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 9, 2010)

I'd be really bummed if Morrison straight out said in the story "This is THE devil."

Some things should just be left a little uncertain, even for Batman.

Sort of like the contents of the case in Pulp Fiction, and Marcellus's bandaged neck.


----------



## Bender (Jul 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> He is Thomas Wayne, Mangrove Pierce and something that could be called a Devil.



Don't forget the doctor from the storyline "Robin dies at Dawn"

So Thomas Wayne is the devil?  So does that sorta kind of mean that Bruce is the son of the devil? 

This reminds me of the 1997 movie Devil' Advocate



Doctor Hurt is on top 

and Bruce is on the bottom 

@ Whip Whirlwind

Never gonna happen 

One of Morrison's policies is to be ambiguous in his writing when it comes to important plot points.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

Devil does not mean *THE* Devil


----------



## Castiel (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm betting some sort of connection with The Shadowless Man from Gothic.  What with him being pretty implied to have _something_ do with the death of Thomas Wayne


----------



## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

Everything and Anything is possible but I think its all coming to a close by the time 16 comes around.



> The Black Glove really is just an amorphous architecture of evil. He’s anything that’ll HURT Bruce Wayne: the Anti-Mum/Dad/Alfred. The comic isn’t insisting we literally interpret him as the Devil, although, given all the satanic referencing (and not just in the dialogue; in the comic’s iconography, its mise-en-scene, its themes, its tone, and the gothic genre conventions that Morrison has deliberately brought into play), and, ostensibly, supernatural shit that’s come pouring out of this book since day one, we could quite confidently endorse this take, but that’s not really the point. True to form Batman 681 refuses to pick a side. It denies conclusivity. Anyone that says otherwise does not understand Morrison’s writing. That might annoy some of you out there, but it’s a fact. Sorry. The symbolic/thematic reading is just as important to this book as the literal one. The mythic sphere serving as the Joker’s base of operations that I discussed last time? Well, that’s a key component of Morrison’s comic. Grant understands the Joker’s reading of the text to be just as valid as Batman’s. Sure, we may err on the side of there being an earthly explanation, but that doesn’t matter. Bruce still awoke the last demon in the cave in Nanda Parbat/during the isolation experiment, a demon that cast it’s wrathful reflection on the surface of the material plane, irrespective of the skin this dreadful afterimage decided to dress itself in. That’s how magic works, kids.


----------



## Bender (Jul 9, 2010)

Taleran said:
			
		

> Devil does not mean *THE* Devil



Two different types of context

in R.I.P. He said he was there  from the beginning Bruce's travel in time does not mean that he could be Hurt though if he came back wrong.



Mickey Mouse said:


> I'm betting some sort of connection with The Shadowless Man from Gothic.



No that's impossible because he's been damned to hell by Lucifer himself at the end of Gothic.



> What with him being pretty implied to have _something_ do with the death of Thomas Wayne



Naw, I doubt it. 

EDIT:

Here's a theory I posted on DCU message board tell me what you guys think of it:



> Thomas Wayne was actually a well-known satanist and Martha Wayne one day came upon him practicing it. Martha threatened to take Bruce away from him; it is during this conversation that she reveals she has been cheating on Thomas Wayne for some time now. She's suspected that he has a Satanist for quite some time now and her suspicions confirmed she is adamant on taking Bruce with her when he returns from private school. Even after begging her she still decides to leave him. Thomas then makes a deal with Satan in exchange for killing Bruce and Martha Satan will take his body and he'll be damned to hell for all eternity. However, despite the fact that it was only Martha who was killed in the shooting in the alley Thomas is still damned to hell and Satan assumes his identity.






> Everything and Anything is possible but I think its all coming to a close by the time 16 comes around.



He's been called Devil so many times you could make a drinking game out of it for each time it's referenced.  At this point in time it'd make sense to call Hurt  since we all know that Morrison is never going to clarify his identity for us.

 In his own words:

"Everyone wants an answer, don't they?... I hate things with answers."
— Grant Morrison, in a Wizard magazine interview


----------



## Castiel (Jul 10, 2010)

> No that's impossible because he's been damned to hell by Lucifer himself at the end of Gothic.


Revenge/allowed to come up if he gets the soul of bruce/something else entirely





> Naw, I doubt it.


Maybe I'm being too literal again, but:

Thomas prevents Whisper from molesting Bruce
Whisper vows revenge
next panel is the death of the waynes

something happened, hex, voodoo, etc.  But _something_ happened


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 10, 2010)

Damned essay. . . otherwise, I'd be writing my review to Batman and Robin #13. . .

Which is so damn good.


----------



## Bender (Jul 10, 2010)

> Thomas prevents Whisper from molesting Bruce
> Whisper vows revenge
> next panel is the death of the waynes



Maybe Whisper is Doctor Hurt I gotta look back his issues

but it's possible that he's Hurt if he doesn't have a shadow


----------



## Bender (Jul 10, 2010)

Question for you guys: Would it make you angry if it does turn out that Thomas Wayne was Satan all along? Since it's changing Batman's mythos and what not.

btw 

I changed my theory this one seems for more credible than the last

Also in Grant Morrison says that Hurt could be either be The Devil or Thomas Wayne

After re-reading Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #2 and looking at Batman & Robin #13



> Thomas Wayne was actually a well-known satanist and Martha Wayne one day came upon him practicing it. Martha threatened to take Bruce away from him; it is during this conversation that she reveals she has been cheating on Thomas Wayne for some time now. She's suspected that he has a Satanist for quite some time now and her suspicions confirmed she is adamant on taking Bruce with her when he returns from private school. Even after begging her she still decides to leave him. Thomas then makes a deal with Satan in exchange for killing Bruce and Martha Satan will take his body and he'll be damned to hell for all eternity. However, despite the fact that it was only Martha who was killed in the shooting in the alley Thomas is still damned to hell and Satan assumes his identity.



_HERE are some of the probable meanings behind Hurt as The Devil: 
_
besides ultimate good vs ultimate evil... 

-Batman looking like The Devil with his bat ears contrasted with (vs) The Devil whose dragon wings are described by Grant as looking like batwings. Prostitute to Batman from #665: "You're in way over your devil ears." 

And because of this one might say the idea of The Devil is the father of the Batman idea..Grant, according to his own Arkham Asylum annotations, might say that Finger/Kane didn't even realize that their mind was subconsciously tapping into the idea of The Devil when they chose to make a superhero based on a bat. 

--Batman (Ha-Satan) vs Hurt (Satan/Lucifer)= the original virtuous version vs. the subsequent wicked imitator (the order made odd by the time travel stuff) parallels Ha-Satan's historical evolution to Satan/Lucifer. Batman is like original idea of the the pre-Biblical/Old Testament, Talmudic/Kabbalistic/Hasidic version of the Devil, Ha-Satan, as an agent used for salvation by the forces of good. In a way, because of RoBW, Batman is now metatextually "The First Batman," Batman is using time travel to (perhaps inadvertently) usurp The Devil's role in man's history...in a way, it's Ha-Satan taking his role back. In other words, Grant is giving the idea of "the devil" his positive role back in man's beliefs/stories through Batman (a good devil). 

-spirit and unity (Batman) vs matter and duality (Hurt).....remember this from 666? Damian's description of what the Satan signal means? Grant's Batman is more spiritual zen and Grant is trying to unite Bruce and Batman. Hurt on the other hand is about material pleasures like gambling and power, and is an evil spirit inhabiting a man, a black glove covering human flesh, this diabolical duality. 

-the evil inside man (think Hurt specifically here) (literally and figuratively, reality vs fiction, reality of why there is evil vs fiction's/religion's tendency to create supernatural explanations of evil and run with them) 

-"BatGOD" (a snarkish criticism against Morrison) vs The Devil.......(RoBW is showing us Bruce sorta creating his very own myth of, people's beliefs in, the batgod/devil) 

-(this one kinda repeats in a slightly different way)...The Black Glove doubles as the name of a group of super rich & powerful gamblers, and the title of its leader, Dr Simon Hurt, who is The Devil. The Devil is like a black glove that "covers" (possesses) human flesh (think "black" like black mass or black magic). The Devil literally & figuratively tries to use Batman's history (his Golden & Silver Age history) against him to corrupt Batman's noble spirit, to force Batman to sell his soul and be Hurt's slave in Hurt's bid to destroy Gotham. The Devil, the dragon from Revelations whose wings are described like batwings, believes himself to be "The First Batman", the first mythical fearsome force that almost always wins, that is truly why Hurt wears Bruce's father's cowl from a story called "The First Batman."


----------



## Taleran (Jul 11, 2010)

Blaze its a Morrison comic Nothing is set in stone until it is. I still maintain that Hurt is all of the above.


----------



## mow (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm with all of the above, too.

Was re-reading batman & robin, and issue 4 page 11...damn, Dick knew it was the joker from the very second they were introduced. I always thought Tan just made Dick a bit grumpy, but looking at it again, he was really scowling cause he knew who was behind the mask.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Blaze its a Morrison comic Nothing is set in stone until it is. I still maintain that Hurt is all of the above.




Reading that again makes me sad reading Azrael.  It's a tragedy how a genuinely good man who wishes to redemption would eventually fall _so hard_


----------



## Taleran (Jul 11, 2010)

That issue 666 Makes me think of the Upcoming B&R #15


----------



## Parallax (Jul 12, 2010)

I completely forgot about that


----------



## Bender (Jul 12, 2010)

Taleran said:


> That issue 666 Makes me think of the Upcoming B&R #15



The 2nd pic isn't coming up

May wanna fix 

@ Parallax whaddya think of my theory on Hurt's identity 

Also btw what would you guys rate my theory 1-10?


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jul 12, 2010)

Could Tim's list of "good guy threats" be any more random?

Shit, are the marvels even powered?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 12, 2010)

Where's that person who did the Batman = Buddha post?


----------



## Bender (Jul 12, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Where's that person who did the Batman = Buddha post?



Beats me

What I'm more curious about is where the dude that did "Batman is a goddamned killer" thread


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 12, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Could Tim's list of "good guy threats" be any more random?
> 
> Shit, are the marvels even powered?



I dont think they were threats necessarily, just people to keep an eye on.

I mean, Damian ain't shit right now. But give him a few years and access to either of his family fortunes and he's one badass friend. As we've seen in 666.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 12, 2010)

@Bender

its an interesting theory, but I'm more in line with Taleran and Mow on the interpretation of Dr Hurt.


----------



## Bender (Jul 12, 2010)

Parallax said:


> @Bender
> 
> its an interesting theory, but I'm more in line with Taleran and Mow on the interpretation of Dr Hurt.



I miss the angry grinding teeth smiley 

Hopefully, my theory turns out to be true. 

And if Hurt isn't literally the devil a good damn explanation better be given for what kind of devil he is.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 12, 2010)

Here is the missing image Blaze its the cover for #15


----------



## Taleran (Jul 12, 2010)

> Hot off the white-hot start to his ACTION COMICS run, writer Paul Cornell turns his sharp pen to the Batman universe, and takes on the Dynamic Duo’s across-the-pond colleagues – Knight and Squire! Teaming with interior artist Jimmy Broxton and cover artist Yanick Paquette, the six-issue mini-series puts the spotlight on the London counterparts to Batman and Robin.
> 
> When the barriers preventing an all-out battle in a secret city populated by heroes and villains alike are lifted, all hell breaks loose and only the Knight and Squire can step in to put things write. But can the tandem keep the peace between friends and foe?
> 
> What say you, Mr. Cornell?



Hell Yeah


----------



## Castiel (Jul 12, 2010)

I wonder how many people on the planet _did not_ ask Cornell to write Knight and Squire.  I swear the moment he was announced exclusive he got flooded by tweets

Still supremely happy he said yes


----------



## Castiel (Jul 12, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Hell Yeah



ACTUAL RESPONCE



> I?m delighted to be working in DC Britain! Grant always said that he added something to the Knight and Squire?s world with every appearance: we?ll be taking that policy, and the amount of over the top weird and wonderful zany surreal Britishness and dialling them up to eleven. If you?ve wanted to see a milkman fighting a dinosaur in a suit, in a pub, then this is the comic for you





> the amount of over the top weird and wonderful zany surreal Britishness and dialling them up to eleven. If you?ve wanted to see a milkman fighting a dinosaur in a suit, in a pub, then this is the comic for you





> If you?ve wanted to see a milkman fighting a dinosaur in a suit, in a pub, then this is the comic for you





> . If you?ve wanted to see a milkman fighting a dinosaur in a suit, in a pub





> milkman fighting a dinosaur in a suit


----------



## Taleran (Jul 12, 2010)

Also from the Bat Camp

Battle for the Lack of Cowl looks really meh.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 12, 2010)

You know, it'll be a real sad day when Morrison is done with Batman.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 12, 2010)

It will be pretty funny for the few weeks months after it as DC announces what will follow it up. Depending on how they follow it up.


----------



## Bender (Jul 13, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman #701 preview_


----------



## Parallax (Jul 13, 2010)

can't wait to pick it up


----------



## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]9qOdggdLPLM[/YOUTUBE]

John DiMaggio's Joker





Taleran said:


> Also from the Bat Camp
> 
> Battle for the Lack of Cowl looks really meh.



Yes because we have so many details to base an opinion on.

In any case the writers look good.

Nicieza is always good, Marc Andreyko can be amazing, holy shit MIKE BARR coming out of retirement   Miller is meh but at least he tries, Beechen is a roll of the dice


----------



## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)

oh and if anyone wants to see how the artist for Knight and Squire looks, read Unwritten 10 and 11, he did the finishes for PETER GROSS


----------



## mow (Jul 13, 2010)

*milkman fighting a dinosaur in a suit*

And Cornell.

I'm literary dancing.



Taleran said:


> Also from the Bat Camp
> 
> Battle for the Lack of Cowl looks really meh.





the what now?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)




----------



## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)

Proper Cornell interview




> They also have a lovely older brother/younger sister relationship. There's also a bit of a caste thing. He lives in the big castle; she lives in the tiny house near his gate with her mom, in a very working class neighborhood.
> 
> The Squire is one of the most wonderful characters in comics. She's 13 or 14 years old. She's very brave. She's very practical. She walks straight into situations and sorts them out. I think she's got a very specific tone of voice that Grant's developed, and she's really the center of this.





> *Nrama: *What can you tell us about this corner of the DCU that Grant developed?
> 
> *Cornell:* Knight and Squire are part of an ever-expanding universe of British DC characters that Grant developed. One of his rules is that every time he appears, he will add something to their universe.
> 
> ...





> The first issue is about the Pub, where all the British superheroes and supervillains meet on the first Thursday of every month, and how that works, and what the legacy of that pub is, and who these vast numbers of new characters are and how they interact. And we go from there, really.
> 
> One of the more interesting characters, I think, is the British Joker. Back in the day, there were sort of "rubbish" cover versions of American superheroes and supervillains in Britain. And he's an elderly British chap who tried to be the Joker in his youth and has sort of kept it going, but doesn't really have the heart to hurt anybody.
> 
> ...





> Knight and Squire is quite serious, but in that very British way of there's lots and lots of comedy, and then something dark will just suddenly surprise you. It's comedy and horror wrapped right up together. It's a fine line to tread. It's that line between pantomime and macabre. That's where we are.



THIS IS GOING TO BE AMAZING


----------



## mow (Jul 13, 2010)

I love this man pek

@ Battle for the Lack of Cowl (): I'm meh until proven otherwise
@joker: dark, grimy and laugh is spot on, but he's talking accent is just itching me the wrong way for some odd reason.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 13, 2010)

Can't wait to review it, when it comes out.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 13, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Yes because we have so many details to base an opinion on.
> 
> In any case the writers look good.



I am going on needless DC tie in extravaganza experience. The only thing I liked in BftC for example was the Michael Lane stuff.


----------



## Agmaster (Jul 14, 2010)

"You'll be as quiet as possible, or I'll put one in your lap first."

Nice.


----------



## Bender (Jul 14, 2010)

What is up with Barbartos name appearing so frequently?  He was mentioned in B & R # 12 and now Batman #701. 

I don't think Thomas Wayne was damned to hell perhaps he became Barbatos. That's why he had scribbled his name all over that room Bruce recently discovered. After doing that Satan/Hurt took over his body.

Also anyone else think that in Batman #702 it's going to show that Bruce came across Hurt during Final Crisis.


----------



## mow (Jul 14, 2010)

it will be very interesting if Hurt and Darksied had something between them.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 14, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I am going on needless DC tie in extravaganza experience. The only thing I liked in BftC for example was the Michael Lane stuff.



Well that's a different story, having low expectations instead of going meh with no info.

While I didn't hate BftC on the whole, I will give you that Azrael was the best


----------



## Castiel (Jul 14, 2010)

Batman 701 - I liked it, though more set up than anything.  Love Morrison's take on Bruce though
Red Hood 2 - Pretty good


----------



## Bender (Jul 14, 2010)

> While I didn't hate BftC on the whole, I will give you that Azrael was the best



Azrael was far more interesting for me than anything in Battle for the cowl had to offer for me.  

Not to mention you could see Jason's fate at the end of the arc a mile away.


----------



## Bender (Jul 14, 2010)

*CONFIRMED: TONY DANIEL ONGOING WRITER/ARTIST ON BATMAN*



> The Bat-news continues to roll in, with more clues and teases about what exactly is happening in the Batman universe in November. Here’s another piece of the puzzle, involving Mr. Tony Daniel.
> 
> It’s simple enough. Tony’s done a bang-up job as both writer and artist on the regular BATMAN series, and after a brief break thanks to the epic 700th anniversary issue and his team-up with writer Grant Morrison to bridge the gap between “Batman R.I.P.” and FINAL CRISIS, Tony Daniel will return to the title as the ongoing writer and artist. Not bad, eh? Let’s see what the man himself has to say about it.
> 
> “I am thrilled and honored to be tapped for further writing duties on the world’s most iconic super hero, Batman. I look forward to telling exciting tales with the caped crusader and exploring old and new characters alike. I will continue to put my best foot forward on each and every page.”






OH HELL FUCKING YEAH!


----------



## Taleran (Jul 14, 2010)

701 was good and there has to be something more to this than what it is showing or else it will just be a fleshed out version of Last Rites and I can't see Grant going back to tell this story for only that reason. The way it is worded on that final 2 page spread seems to say that there is a large connection between Hurt & Darkseid.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 14, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> While I didn't hate BftC on the whole, I will give you that Azrael was the best



Because of Irving more than anything really. The writing was only decent, issue 2 really threw me off with azrael breaking out jokes all the sudden.

I was totally thrown off for a minute by the 'internal monologue' in batman 701. I know there was a little of that in RIP, but it was really weird to see Morrison do it for an entire issue.


----------



## mow (Jul 14, 2010)

I think that's the point all of us seemed to miss. The "devil" and the "god of evil". Ofcourse they're in bed together. How could they not be? 

Or at the very least, Hurt pulled a string with Darksied.

EDIT: Alfred. I love this man pek


----------



## Taleran (Jul 14, 2010)

Yeah we were all making those connections months ago.



> The writing was only decent



That is very true but I loved that page where Dick confronts Talia near the end.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 15, 2010)

> The writing was only decent


Certainly true, but Lane has really grown on me over the past 9 issues, here's hoping Hine does good in his run.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 15, 2010)

Sounds like Morrison is leaving the Batman universe. Tony Daniel is taking over Batman again, and Tomasi/Gleason are taking over Batman and Robin.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 15, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Sounds like Morrison is leaving the Batman universe. Tony Daniel is taking over Batman again, and Tomasi/Gleason are taking over Batman and Robin.





> And before you start asking the question I know is on the tip of your tongue, here are a few words of advice: Wait a few days.



Grant did say that he was taking the book in a new direction. Maybe its a new book.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 15, 2010)




----------



## Agmaster (Jul 15, 2010)

Damian + Ravager == I'm in.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 15, 2010)

Stop trying to prop up dead horses with interesting characters DC

KILL THE TITANS


----------



## Castiel (Jul 15, 2010)

Well they got Nicola Scott on art, so at least it'll be pretty to look at.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 15, 2010)

It could also be Multiversity time.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 15, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Stop trying to prop up dead horses with interesting characters DC
> 
> KILL THE TITANS



Poor Static.

What's happened to him?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 15, 2010)

Got sent to the Titans.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 15, 2010)

And since then?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 15, 2010)

> Speaking of random … and it is random, since it doesn’t pertain exactly to this issue (yet). Next issue is called “The Triumph of Death”, and that particular painting was the same exact painting seen behind John Mayhew in his “The Study” in Mayhew’s mansion.



Damn son that is crazy


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 15, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> And since then?



who knows none of us read that book!


----------



## Castiel (Jul 15, 2010)

I think m0 still does but he's not here now


----------



## Bender (Jul 15, 2010)

lol @ Titans

Everyone's like "Oh no" 

And Beast Boy's like "Who the fuck is this kid?"


----------



## Agmaster (Jul 15, 2010)

It's true Titans is a dead horse, but I like 7/10 of the chars so I read it anyways./


----------



## Bender (Jul 15, 2010)

Agmaster said:


> It's true Titans is a dead horse, but I like 7/10 of the chars so I read it anyways./



Teen Titans feels hella fucking dead for me

Well I suppose it's because I miss the old roster of Tim ,Cassandra, Connor, Bart, Raven, Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire. But yeah it's time to move on. 

Honestly, the book was alive for me when Geoff Johns was doing it.


----------



## Graham Aker (Jul 16, 2010)

Scott on TT's, argh DC you sneak.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 17, 2010)

read new RR, damn gotta say with the obvious exception of Morrison, Nicieza is the best writer on the Batbooks right now (GCS cancels out SoG), he gets the characters perfectly.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 17, 2010)

I just wonder what he intends with the Cassandra Cain reference. . .


----------



## Bender (Jul 18, 2010)

^

Go absolutely nowhere with it


----------



## Taleran (Jul 19, 2010)

> BATMAN: THE RETURN #1
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> *Art by DAVID FINCH *& SCOTT WILLIAMS
> Cover by DAVID FINCH
> ...



Dear DC,

Please stop hating.


----------



## mow (Jul 19, 2010)

Mother of 12 bastards.

Finch? FINCH? 

What bleeding cunt bags  



> superstar artist David Finch



Oxymoron ahoy...


----------



## Taleran (Jul 19, 2010)

I really hope the issue isn't important because its probably gonna be collected in a trade with the other pointless one shots


----------



## Castiel (Jul 19, 2010)

> Dear DC,
> 
> Please stop hating.


Finch's Action covers have been good recently so I'm going to yet again have a slight hope we get something better than in "Ant Tomorrow" story





> I really hope the issue isn't important


Read the solicit, it's obviously going to be important





> because its probably gonna be collected in a trade with the other pointless one shots


Also DC has done well enough of lumping Morrison's work together

Also not really ENTIRELY "pointless" since all the ongoings are suspended for the month


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 19, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Dear DC,
> 
> Please stop hating.


Full Agreement.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 20, 2010)

I don't give a darn I'll still buy it and read it so whatever.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2010)

wont be as enjoyable though. remember philip tan's arc? the art matters.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 20, 2010)

I liked that arc :armcross it actually holds up better than most remember.  And I don't have some abnormal hate for Finch's art


----------



## Agent (Jul 20, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> wont be as enjoyable though. remember philip tan's arc? the art matters.


Finch's art isn't thaaaat bad.


Parallax said:


> I liked that arc :armcross it actually holds up better than most remember.  And I don't have some abnormal hate for Finch's art


Read the first arc and then compare it with the second one.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 20, 2010)

The first arc is much better.  It's the weakest arc in the series by far but its still not that bad.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 20, 2010)

The main problem I'd say is his tone.  It's so one-note.  It becomes overwhelming and boring really fast, especially when it's at odds with the story.

That's why his latest Action Comics cover is so surprising.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 20, 2010)

Sweet Prince said:


> Read the first arc and then compare it with the second one.



Frank Quitely is top 3 best artist in the industry, the second arc could have been almost *anyone* and it wouldn't have been as good art wise.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2010)

Sweet Prince said:


> Finch's art isn't thaaaat bad.


It's usually worse. He can draw like 3 faces, all with really puffy lips. and then he cross-hatches all over them. Those action comics covers give me some hope, because they're pretty good. But honestly I doubt he can provide quality art when it comes to storytelling.


----------



## Agent (Jul 20, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Frank Quitely is top 3 best artist in the industry, the second arc could have been almost *anyone* and it wouldn't have been as good art wise.


Frank Quitely? His art style is so messy ;/ 
I like Dustin Nguyen and Francis Manapaul the most from DC artists.



Petes12 said:


> It's usually worse. He can draw like 3 faces, all with really puffy lips. and then he cross-hatches all over them. Those action comics covers give me some hope, because they're pretty good. But honestly I doubt he can provide quality art when it comes to storytelling.


X-men Second Coming had pretty enjoyable art. But somehow all the women he draws seem to look the same. ;/


----------



## Parallax (Jul 20, 2010)

Frank Quitely is excellent and far from messy


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 20, 2010)

Sweet Prince said:


> Frank Quitely? His art style is so messy ;/


wut




> X-men Second Coming had pretty enjoyable art. But somehow all the women he draws seem to look the same. ;/


All the everyone looks the same.


----------



## vicious1 (Jul 20, 2010)

Frank Quitely is one of the best artists in comics today. Period. 

I don't care for finch but that's because his style reminds me too much of the bad 90s art. So many lines.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 21, 2010)

I'm conflicted, he badmouthed Quitely, but likes Nguyen


----------



## Parallax (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't think Nguyen is very good


----------



## Castiel (Jul 21, 2010)

Get out                .


----------



## Agent (Jul 21, 2010)

Dustin Nguyen's art. You can see for yourself. I don't havta convince ya on this one. ;/


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 21, 2010)

Why are his Batman Beyond covers so ungood?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 21, 2010)

Everyone has their weak point


----------



## illmatic (Jul 21, 2010)

"_It’s almost time for the doors to open at the San Diego Comic-Con, so we figured it’d be the ideal moment to unveil some never-before-seen artwork. How about a first look at some art from J.H. Williams III’s new BATWOMAN series? Well, here you go. Hope to see you soon!_"


----------



## Agent (Jul 21, 2010)

meh even those covers aren't bad ;/


----------



## Parallax (Jul 21, 2010)

It's fantastic what are you talking about


----------



## mow (Jul 21, 2010)

Okay, you are def a troll. And I'm already moving towards the ignore button.

why cant you just hard delete a person from the internet? It shouldn't be this difficult. I need to ask Gooba for a fix.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 21, 2010)

Time Masters was drek and I will not be reading anything past the first issue.

Let us explain what happened in Comics you already read!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 21, 2010)

Anybody know where I could find a high resolution image of the B & R 13 cover? I'd like to turn it into a poster and google images has failed me.


----------



## Agent (Jul 21, 2010)

you mean this one?



This was the largest I could find.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 21, 2010)

Thanks, but I meant the quitely cover.

And I doubt that's big enough. I need pretty high resolution, something I could print out as a decent sized poster without a significant dip in quality.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 21, 2010)

it doesn't exist man O:


----------



## Agent (Jul 21, 2010)

This was the best I could find~


----------



## Taleran (Jul 21, 2010)

Best I could find


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Jul 21, 2010)

I wish I had more room in my house for posters


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2010)

I really don't care for that cover actually. 

I like Nguyen ok, he has a pretty original style which is especially nice for a DC artist. But I don't think I'd say he's amazing, or one of the best or any of that.


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm starting to get irritated...I'm looking back at past Bat books and man I'm getting sorta kind of irritated. I can't see a difference between Grant's whole method of fight scenes and Beechen's (in his gawdy awful take on Tim/Robin comics  Batgirl 2008 series.) It's nothing but punches and kicks taking down foes rather than utilizing other gadgets and weapons. 

What the hell happened to Bruce using his trademark Batarangs, or knock-out gas which he used in perfect succession in Batman: Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive storyline? If you ask me ( and I know that this is true) the only thing that captivating for Bat books and has been traded for Batman kick-ass stunts is dialogue/philosophy/supernatural/ mystery.

Yes, that's good too and I'm sure we all love Bat-prep but c'mon bring back Bats using his batarangs, knock-out gas.  

I.e. To those who don't know about the epic shit I'm talking about refer to Batman: Bruce Wayne Fugitive vol.2 

It's looking at that take down of commandos that I can't help but feel the take down at the end of R.I.P. had less anti-climatic impact.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 22, 2010)

Bender said:


> I'm starting to get irritated...I'm looking back at past Bat books and man I'm getting sorta kind of irritated. I can't see a difference between Grant's whole method of fight scenes and Beechen's (in his gawdy awful take on Tim/Robin comics  Batgirl 2008 series.) It's nothing but punches and kicks taking down foes rather than utilizing other gadgets and weapons.
> 
> What the hell happened to Bruce using his trademark Batarangs, or knock-out gas which he used in perfect succession in Batman: Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive storyline? If you ask me ( and I know that this is true) the only thing that captivating for Bat books and has been traded for Batman kick-ass stunts is dialogue/philosophy/supernatural/ mystery.
> 
> ...



What are you talking about?  #656 and #666 all had gadgets fully utulized.  In the climax of RIP he shuts down Arkham BECAUSE of a gadget.  Dick Grayson doesn't use a lot of gadgets but then again that was never his style to begin with.


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

> In the climax of RIP he shuts down Arkham BECAUSE of a gadget.



I'm talking MAINLY about the Batarangs. The Batarang is one of his most well-known ,well-received in his equipment, that's why I want to see Bruce use those again.



> Dick Grayson doesn't use a lot of gadgets but then again that was never his style to begin with.



Those metallic poles? If anything those were his coolest pieces of equipment


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2010)

Metallic poles?

You talking about his escrima? Those are weapons, not gadgets. And for a better part of his Nightwing days he used them extensively. It was nice to see him rock them again in batman 700 and remember how kickass he was with them.


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

CRAP

now everyone's confused. 

WEAPONS 

I meant to say I miss Bats using weapons 




Whip Whirlwind said:


> You talking about his escrima? Those are *weapons*, not gadgets.



I know that's what I'm talking about.

We see enough gadgets, just not weapons; and frankly it's becoming a bit boring (well to me at least). 


We need to see more use of the Batarangs


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2010)

Ah, gotcha.

I do like seeing batman using various batarangs, but with Grayson behind the cowl it makes sense he wouldn't use them as much.

When bruce comes back I expect to see more. It also annoys me that Grayson doesn't use escrima as much, but given how heavily tied they are to the nightwing role (and how heavily tied Nightwing is to batman) I can see why he'd avoid it.

He doesn't want everyone knowing that Wing is the new Bat.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 22, 2010)

well gadgets and weapons are different things.

Batman used a bat in RIP so there


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

It's because of looking back at old Batman storylines that I'm growing to dislike Morrison stories...A bit. Bruce's fighting style seems slugghish and mundane.



> When bruce comes back I expect to see more.



As I said before Batman Bruce Wayne: Fugitive vol. 2 showed Bruce using his weapons in the greatest rapid successful sequence EVER. 

When Bruce returns to being Batman:

More Batarang usage, smoke bombs, knock-out gas





> He doesn't want everyone knowing that Wing is the new Bat.



It's funny even though it's called Detective Comics barely anyone is perceptive. Well everyone in Daily Planet that is.  You'd think that they all figure out that Clark Kent is Superman by now(matching hairstyle and whatnot). 

You'd have to be dense as fuck to not know Dick isn't Batman with him  so damn much. Not to mention Two-face being the keen mug he is in #691 gave the most stunning display of intelligence out of everyone in Bats rogue gallery in OYL. It's as Two-face said to Dick about his suspicions of him being Batman: Dick hops around too much, doesn't show any similarity in fighting style, was a camera hoe ,and SMILED while under the cowl.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2010)

Well keep in mind, the general populace doesn't get NEARLY as much exposure to costumed vigilantes as we do as readers.

And its not like the average criminal is going to be thinking "Hmm, batman seems to hop around a bit too much, maybe its a different guy?" they're going to be thinking "OHFUUCKITSBATMANRUUUUUNNNN!"

Im sure most of the smarter rogues have figured it out, and Commish Gordon has known from the very beginning.


----------



## mow (Jul 22, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> "OHFUUCKITSBATMANRUUUUUNNNN!"
> .



^ that + !


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2010)

mow said:


> ^ that + !



And for any onlookers:


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Well keep in mind, the general populace doesn't get NEARLY as much exposure to costumed vigilantes as we do as readers.





> And its not like the average criminal is going to be thinking "Hmm, batman seems to hop around a bit too much, maybe its a different guy?"



Of course with Dick' speed and agility he'll knock 'em out before they're able to put two and two together. 



> "OHFUUCKITSBATMANRUUUUUNNNN!"







> Im sure most of the smarter rogues have figured it out, and Commish Gordon has known from the very beginning.



Scarecrow + Joker + Hush + Ra's Al Ghul + Bane Rid-

Wait- now that Riddler has his memory back; do you think he'll remember Bruce's identity as Batman?  

(senses interesting upcoming storyline plot upon Bruce's return )


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2010)

Bender said:


> Of course with Dick' speed and agility he'll knock 'em out before they're able to put two and two together.



Very true.

Also, Batman has always been agile as fuck. A vast majority of the unsupercrime would probably assume that he got more agile or has always been that agile rather than thinking there's a new batman. It takes a trained eye to see the difference.

For example, if you put Lady Shiva and Black Canary in the exact same costume (head to toe bodysuit) and had them each face 20 random mooks using just h2h, the average onlooker would probably have no clue which one was which. They'd just see two incredibly skilled martial artists.

On the other hand, any DC reader will tell you that Lady Shiva is clearly superior to Black Canary in h2h.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 22, 2010)

Uhhh Blaze the last present comic with Bruce Wayne had him *SWORDFIGHTING* with *BLACKBEARD* on a *BRIDGE OF BONES*


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Uhhh Blaze the last present comic with Bruce Wayne had him *SWORDFIGHTING* with *BLACKBEARD* on a *BRIDGE OF BONES*



I'm talking about present-day Batman

Not him using shit from different eras 



> On the other hand, any DC reader will tell you that Lady Shiva is clearly superior to Black Canary in h2h.



It's a damn shame we didn't get to see Bruce do his intense training in 52 as we saw him in Knightfall.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 22, 2010)

Bender said:


> It's a damn shame we didn't get to see Bruce do his intense training in 52 as we saw him in Knightfall.



Thats because 52 was a different kind of training.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2010)

I dont really see the point in seeing Bruce training. Maybe a panel or two to see what he's doing, but its not like Bruce will ever actually improve.

Outside of prep godliness, I cant see Batman ever getting more proficient than he already is, since if he gets any better at h2h/computers/acrobatics/whatever it supercedes other characters' core competencies.

By this I mean, Bruce will NEVER be better than Oracle at computer work and NEVER be better than Dick at acrobatics. Same might be said about martial arts and lady shiva/cass cain.

EDIT: Exactly Tal, any serious training (beyond keeping his skills sharp) that Bruce goes through from this point on is more about his mental state and will. There's not much of a need for him to train his skills anymore since they are already high enough that we the reader will never be like "wth batman isn't that good."


----------



## Taleran (Jul 22, 2010)




----------



## Castiel (Jul 22, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> And for any onlookers:



Also Batman sightings are a rare thing (War Games was the first time he got caught on camera in Gotham), so Dick appearing more often is going to distract a lot of people and go all "hell yeah I saw Batman"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2010)

Yea, I feel like if you compiled all the eyewitness reports of people seeing batman you'd still only get a few pieces of info from them.

-scary as hell
-stealthy as hell
-awesome fighter
-armed with crazy shit
-good guy (maybe?)
-has a sweet car


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 22, 2010)

As usual, Blaze has no idea what he's talking about.

Off the top of the head, between BatRob and Batman 700, we've seen electric knuckles, batons, Batarangs, death rays, CSI tech, rocket launchers, Batbombs, pellet bombs, swords, and tons of improvised weapons - Damian and Alfred vs CloneBats is all about them throwing any and everything they get their hands on at him.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 22, 2010)

Can't forget Crowbars


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 22, 2010)

. . . What I miss?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 22, 2010)

Bender making empty accusations


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 22, 2010)

Oh, and there's all of the new Batvehicles.  They're ace.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 22, 2010)

I like Batgirl's Ricochet cycle


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> As usual, Blaze has no idea what he's talking about.





			
				Parallax said:
			
		

> Bender making empty accusations



Nope that's just you chumps



> Off the top of the head, between BatRob and Batman 700, we've seen electric knuckles, batons, *Batarangs*



I'm talking about Bruce's weapons btw genius

The Batarangs which have not been seen in Bruce's hand since Batman Face the face. I'm talking about why I'm angry that Bruce didn't use any during the Black Glove arc or R.I.P.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 22, 2010)

Bruce beat Charlie Caligula and thugs with a Baseball Bat.

Shot a grappling hook at a ManBatNinja

Shot another one at that dude in the Club of Heroes then jet packed into Manhew's copter.


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

Nice list but it's still missing his signature Batarangs which Bruce hasn't used in any of Morrison's arcs or like ever.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't understand why you are so hung up on such a small part of the Batman mythos.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 22, 2010)

Who the fuck cares about Batarangs?  Like seriously they should not make or break the fucking story.  I'm sure as hell not reading Batman just to see him shoot batarangs at people's faces.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2010)

who cares batarangs are lame


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 22, 2010)

> I'm talking about Bruce's weapons btw genius
> 
> The Batarangs which have not been seen in Bruce's hand since Batman Face the face. I'm talking about why I'm angry that Bruce didn't use any during the Black Glove arc or R.I.P.



So when you mention Morrison's current Batbooks you're really talking about Batman R.I.P., etc?

Thanks.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah because he uses a whole arsenal of weapons in the Art Gallery second issue.


----------



## Bender (Jul 22, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I don't understand why you are so hung up on such a small part of the Batman mythos.





> Who the fuck cares about Batarangs? Like seriously they should not make or break the fucking story. I'm sure as hell not reading Batman just to see him shoot batarangs at people's faces.





			
				Petes12 said:
			
		

> who cares batarangs are lame



Um hello? Did you forget how fucking epic they looked in Batman: The animated series?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 22, 2010)

This is starting to get into Not My Batman territory of lame


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 22, 2010)

I do think you're blowing this way out of proportion Blaze. However, I do kinda miss epic batarang throws.

But since I haven't noticed their absence until you brought it up, and have still enjoyed Morrison's batwork more than any other batbook, I really dont care if batarangs are absent.


----------



## mow (Jul 23, 2010)

Bender, this is an intervention:

Stop being inane and go light a spiff.


----------



## Graham Aker (Jul 23, 2010)

> The Batarangs which have not been seen in Bruce's hand since Batman Face the face. I'm talking about why I'm angry that Bruce didn't use any during the Black Glove arc or R.I.P.




There are other things to be angry about, Bender, but missing batarangs isn't one of them.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 23, 2010)

> Morrison on his project — "The first thing you're going to see is Batman: The Return," with art from Finch, who re-designed the Batman costume for the 21st century. Morrison is also writing a book called Batman Inc. "This is kind of a team book. I was looking at the Brave and the Bold cartoon, which I love. I kind of wanted to do that kind of thing. Batman with other people. We've come up with a structure that allows us to do something as a team book. That's where you'll see what Bruce is up to." The way Bruce Wayne operates things is about to change, according to Morrison.
> Friday July 23, 2010 1:53
> 
> This just in: Yanick Paquette is artist on Batman, Inc.
> Friday July 23, 2010 2:26



GREATEST
EXTENDED
BATMAN
RUN
EVER


----------



## Bender (Jul 23, 2010)

> There are other things to be angry about, Bender, but missing batarangs isn't one of them.



Speak for yourself man.

I miss my classic Batman equipment  

P.S. I'm angry about a lot of things missing in Bat comics and DC stories and but is number 3 or 4 on my list.



On another note if Red Hood Lost Days and Batman Red Hood movie are successful are we going to see a promotion for Jason Todd in comics? Like I dunno, shoot give him his own comic series with Judd Winnick as main writer. That'd be spectacular idea. Todd would be like Vigilante only more kick-ass. Kicking ass and taking names.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 23, 2010)

quit your bitching

And holy shit Grant Morrison has some great ideas coming up


----------



## neodragzero (Jul 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> Speak for yourself man.
> 
> I miss my classic Batman equipment
> 
> ...



Bender, there's no need to joke around. Weird complaining and a bad idea isn't funny.


----------



## Graham Aker (Jul 24, 2010)

Batman Inc. seems like it's fucking awesome shit. Can't wait.

Hopefully it has Bats using batarangs to make Bender happy.


----------



## mow (Jul 24, 2010)

The gods are out to make us faithful batards happy. pek


----------



## mow (Jul 24, 2010)

> Cornell said that in #3, Richard III is brought back to life and attempts to conquer the country through the medium of Facebook.



Laughed so so so hard XD


----------



## Bender (Jul 24, 2010)

> Hopefully it has Bats using batarangs to make Bender happy.



pek pek pek pek


----------



## Taleran (Jul 24, 2010)

So who do people want to see be a part of Incorporated?

The obvious first choice is the rest of these guys



Other possibles include

-The Question
-Cassandra Cain
-UltraMarine Corps
-Bulleteer (seriously if these 2 don't use it would be funny)


----------



## Taleran (Jul 24, 2010)

> IGN Comics: Batman Inc. has just been announced here at the show. While we're sure you want to keep quiet on many details and keep the focus on the Return of Bruce Wayne, what can you say about Inc?
> 
> Grant Morrison: I don't want to say too much about the high concept until readers have seen the next couple of Batman and Robin issues, but I suppose you have to take the title The Return of Bruce Wayne literally. There was a kind of tacit understanding for a long time that there was no Bruce Wayne, only Batman, and that 'Bruce' was just a mask or persona. A lot of what we've been trying to do is to undermine that idea.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bender (Jul 24, 2010)

^



I came. I saw. I was blown away.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 24, 2010)




----------



## Bender (Jul 24, 2010)

^


What am I looking at?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 24, 2010)

I read that IGN interview and I JIZZED IN MY PANTS.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 24, 2010)

I read it yesterday and it made my day, its still awesome to read


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 24, 2010)

Taleran said:


> This is starting to get into Not My Batman territory of lame



Morrison does what Morrison wants, haters gtfo imo. 

Speaking of... just read the thing at ign about Batman Inc. Sounds amazing!


----------



## Castiel (Jul 24, 2010)

The mental image of Morrison playing Red Dead Redemption is hilarious

also one of the first team ups up is Bruce/Tim, looking forward to Morrison actually _writing_ Tim


----------



## Parallax (Jul 24, 2010)

I just wanna see the last year long arc he's got planned up


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 24, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> The mental image of Morrison playing Red Dead Redemption is hilarious
> 
> also one of the first team ups up is Bruce/Tim, *looking forward to Morrison actually writing Tim*



Take how much you're looking forward to that, multiply it by 1000. That's how much im looking forward to that.


----------



## Penance (Jul 24, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Take how much you're looking forward to that, multiply it by 1000. That's how much im looking forward to that.



Same here...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 24, 2010)

At first, I was smiling ear to ear. . .

and then I frowned because Grant Morrison would never use Cassandra Cain.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 24, 2010)

How do you know?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 25, 2010)

He's being pessimistic to soften the blow


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 26, 2010)

I have nothing positive to say about the latest Batman Beyond comics.


----------



## Agmaster (Jul 26, 2010)

Penance said:


> Same here...


I'd rather they saved teaming up with Drake for near the end.  

I liked Beyond's art, and the Catwoman banter was fun.  The hush/cavalier stuff was basic but uninteresting.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 26, 2010)

> Damian’s speech in general, about how there’s no such thing as chaos for the Joker and it’s all planned, is also a direct inversion of Joker’s speech to Batman about how only Wikipedia works with rules, structures and clues. This is the complete counterargument.



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Castiel (Jul 26, 2010)

Yeah like how the Heath Ledger Joker was lying through his teeth in the Hospital Scene


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 26, 2010)

Um, the whole movie pretends that chaos is an ideology.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 26, 2010)

Joker has no ideology but himself.

Also I meant him going on about how he doesn't plan things out when clearly he had everything planned out to minute details


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 26, 2010)

Morrison's Batman just proves how re-readable it is.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 27, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Time to head to the Wild West_ 














That last page is spectacular.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 27, 2010)

Blaze they talked different back then, its probably on purpose.


----------



## Bender (Jul 27, 2010)

Taleran said:
			
		

> its probably on purpose.



In all the cowboy movies I watched they never said crap like "Let my mom alone!" 

"Let er' go!"

or 

"Unhand er!"

But not "Let alone!"


----------



## Castiel (Jul 27, 2010)

That's gotta be the stupidest post you've made yet today.

They didn't not have time for no edumacation


----------



## Parallax (Jul 27, 2010)

Bender's always gotta bitch about something


----------



## Bender (Jul 27, 2010)

Wait...Wait...No this doesn't count as grammar  I meant this is an example of not doing research into Western slang.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 27, 2010)

This bike only has a backpedal


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 27, 2010)

Blaze is an authority on Western slang now?  And that's despite staying clear of Westerns because of his distaste for them?

Right.  



Mickey Mouse said:


> This bike only has a backpedal


----------



## Bender (Jul 27, 2010)

ghstwrld said:
			
		

> Blaze is an authority on Western slang now?



Movie trivia to be precise



> And that's despite staying clear of Westerns because of his distaste for them?



When and how?



> And that's despite staying clear of Westerns because of his distaste for them?



Yeah, pick up shit that isn't from when I'm posting drunk.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 27, 2010)

Bender said:


> Yeah, pick up shit that isn't from when I'm posting drunk.



called it!


----------



## Bender (Jul 27, 2010)

^

Congrats you win cookies!


----------



## Agmaster (Jul 27, 2010)

Actually, Mickey called it.  So, I'm confusd.  Who was the guy that pulled the gun and what was up with the batbook?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 27, 2010)

If you have read the previous issues / Batman & Robin you wouldn't be.


----------



## Agmaster (Jul 28, 2010)

Untrue, now if I recalled said issue I wouldn't be.


----------



## Bender (Jul 28, 2010)

Dammit Batman TROBW coming Sept 8th


----------



## Penance (Jul 28, 2010)

Bender said:


> Dammit Batman TROBW coming Sept 8th



Nnnnnnnaoooooooooooooooooo!


Ah, well...Where's Red Robin?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 28, 2010)

Morrison video interview about everything announced SDCC & more.


----------



## Deviate (Jul 28, 2010)

^ Batman is going to announce something that Morrison can't reveal now? Will he pull a Spider-Man and reveal his id?

I got finished Batman RIP. Wow. Amazing.

Does Joker know who Batman is? He's unmasked in front of him and Jet kept calling him Bruce. Does Gordon know?


----------



## Taleran (Jul 28, 2010)

This was your first time reading it? Really?


----------



## Agent (Jul 28, 2010)

Batman used batarangs this week!


----------



## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

> Does Joker know who Batman is?



Most likely but he quite simply _does not care *WHO* Batman is_, just that they get to play 



> Does Gordon know?


Again he probably pieced it together, but Gordon quite simply

_does not want to know_, he refuses to know, Bruce unmasked himself in front of him and closed his eyes.


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2010)

Sweet Prince said:


> Batman used batarangs this week!



And I fucking loved it


----------



## Deviate (Jul 29, 2010)

Taleran said:


> This was your first time reading it? Really?




Yeah, not much of a DC guy. I recently read the first trade for Batman and Robin, so I'm trying to catch up on the good stuff.



> Most likely but he quite simply does not care WHO Batman is, just that they get to play



That's...just silly.


----------



## mow (Jul 29, 2010)

How is it silly? The batman basis, as a concept, everything the joker, as a concept, is against. 

That's why he was about to jizz in his pants when he saw what Damian is like. He knows will always have a batman to play with.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 29, 2010)

Okay, while It was really silly for Bender to bitch about batarangs...

I did miss them, and they were epic this week.  Can't wait for Hard Boiled batman next week


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Okay, while It was really silly for Bender to bitch about batarangs...
> 
> I did miss them, and they were epic this week.  Can't wait for Hard Boiled batman next week



I told you friend! I told you! 



And look you enjoyed it!  

Just like I knew you would! ^^

Thank you Morrison!  


I'm sorry about everything I said about you! You're awesome as hell!  

Is it possible Morrison lurks on these forums? 

Please show more of them in issue #6 of Batman TROBW 

pek pek pek


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 29, 2010)

I really didnt like the art for RoBW 4.


----------



## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

Deviate said:


> That's...just silly.



The Joker is silly


----------



## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I really didnt like the art for RoBW 4.



I thought it was alright, my only problem is that Jeanty has the tendency to draw the same faces all the time so it was really awkward seeing Xander torture Willow


----------



## Parallax (Jul 29, 2010)

I liked the art, it was good


----------



## Taleran (Jul 29, 2010)

It made me miss the fact that Stewart wasn't doing it that is for sure.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 29, 2010)

That stupid grin face... really all his faces were not great. Why is it that Stewart was unable to do it?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

Creative issues apparently. enough that he ended up refusing to do the issue but will still do Batman stuff for Morrison


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2010)

Oi you guys about the whole Barbatos mentioning  in Batman #701 and Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #4 and B&R 11 & 12. I think I understand it now. I think I get it. Along with what Hurt is plotting.

He's been mentioned in Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #4 , B & R 11 & 12.

Before anyone denies any Supernatural origin being involved here are the facts:

    * A curse has been placed on the Wayne family
    * the old Thomas Wayne was a Satanic worshiper
    * Barbatos being involved
    * The way Hurt described himself in RIP
    * Hurt's men being named after demons
    * Hurt's obsession with all things occult, like the "black sun"
    * Oh, then there's this big one... Damian making a pact/selling his soul to who he flat out says The Devil (see Batman and Robin #15 cover,) which didn't turn out to be some sort of metaphor, since we see him get LIT UP with bullets and just shake it off.


Here's my take on this:

Doctor Hurt/Thomas Wayne/Satan of this modern-era started his life crappy like everyone else in the Wayne family. Only this time he became Satan who chose his body as his vessel. So in a way he is Satan and he isn't him etc.

Notice both him and Lucifer Morningstar have the same appearance (aside different hair color)

Corresponding personality traits:

-Both are charming, charismatic 
- Use mortals to accomplish work
-possess supernatural abilities (Hurt being able protect the priest some sort of shield) B&R11

Thomas Wayne/Doctor Hurt



Lucifer Morningstar



 Despite his connections with Satanism he still played the role of "good dad" "good doctor". 

According to his dialogue in Batman R.I.P.: he tolerated Martha Wayne until her affair.  

My belief is the factor that drew a wedge in their relationship being Martha discovering that Thomas was a practitioner of Satanism and had plans to welcome Bruce into the fold. Martha was abhorred and horrified his actions swore that she was going to leave him, take Bruce, and reveal to the world of his status as a Satanist. Thomas couldn't have that because of his plans for Bruce (and perhaps some lingering feeling he had for her) later in his life as Batman. Thomas put a halt to his Satanism and both he and Martha forbid Bruce from entering the room (Bat#701). Thomas was going to make up with her until he discovered she was having an affair. Then came the day Bruce came back from private school- movie night. He orchestrated the shooting and had himself shot and "killed" along with Martha. Although it backfired in that Bruce hadn't been killed Thomas Wayne  provided the perfect illusion and made himself look dead to the world. 

Quick talk: Before you say Dr.Hurt/Lucifer could've seen this coming with him being Satan and whatnot. His visions are not 100% accurate (Lost Paradise being proof of that). Either he couldn't predict it happening or he decided at the last minute it would be a pivotal "mistake" that would be fundamental to his 2nd coming. 

Also... If Thomas Wayne is as innocent or Morrison is fabricating his entire story why didn't he appear to Bruce in Batman: "Whatever happened to the caped crusader?" like his mother, Martha Wayne did? The story that details Bruce's Near death experience when Darkseid hits him with the Omega sanction.

In her appearance in Batman: "Whatever happened to the caped crusader?" Martha Wayne portrayed in a graceful angelic manner. Also she comforts Bruce as he's about to "die". 

Her re-appearance also hints supernatural element taking residence in Batman's world. 

Take note Neil Gaiman was involved in this story and had previously worked with Morrison in Batman: Arkham Asylum A serious house on serious Earth. Considering how he's the authority and one to be consulted with on allowing supernatural beings from Vertigo comics to DC comics he is aware of Dr. Hurt being Satan and thus only showing Martha.

This is complete bullshit

On to Batman: Gothic

 Momentarily discarding his Thomas Wayne/Hurt appearance Lucifer is first seen getting off a bus from Washington most likely (seeing as how is future career stems from there). Like in B&R12 he is seen in a church mocking god (probably looking for Manfred Mr. Whisper). Once again we witness Lucifer's uncanny ability of keeping his targets/associates in the dark. And he is able to make Whisper think he's just some random nun and learn of his plans to trick him and prolong his existence. It all pays off and at the end of the story he damns Mr Whisper/Manfred to hell forever.

Later in his life he is now "Simon Hurt" the second personality after peeling away his identity/host Thomas Wayne. Now, a psychiatric counselor for people and working for the pentagon. Bruce in the dark of his identity and creating the trigger phrase "Zur-En-Arrh". 

Now his third identity Doctor Hurt

Has an organization called the Black glove. A group that likes making bets on the battle of good and evil. Everyone within it- that includes the henchmen/Jezebel has a satanic feature.

The henchmen- Obviously demons

Jezebel Jet-  based on the Phoenician princess,[1] identified in the Hebrew Book of Kings as the daughter of Ethbaal, King of the Sidonians[2] (Phoenicians) and the wife of Ahab, king of north Israel. According to genealogies given in Josephus and other classical sources she was the great aunt of Dido, Queen of Carthage.The Hebrew text portrays Jezebel as an evil power behind the throne.

In R.I.P. she has a powerful presence in the organization and responsible for seducing him and elemental in breaking him mentally which she accomplishes.

In comparison to Jezebel and the henchmen everyone else is without a doubt cattle and worthless pawns.

In the end, although Bruce triumphs, the Black Glove half-accomplished their goal. Doctor Hurt/Satan cursed Batman and true to his words: He was "killed".

However, this is perhaps his death played an even bigger role.

In Batman #10 11 12 

The Black Glove is seen searching for a book which is for "Barbatos". 

Barbatos an Earl and Duke of Hell, ruling thirty legions of demons and has four kings as his companions to command his legions. He gives the understanding of the voices of the animals, says past and future, conciliates friends and rulers, and he can lead men to hidden treasures that have been hid by the enchantment of magicians.

The book  we seen in Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #4

Bruce is seen as a mythic dark mysterious figure during his trip through time

Now let us decode  this bit of information shall we?

Barbatos an Earl Duke of hell has 4 generals

Batman has 4 generals

Robin 

Nightwing

Batgirl

Batwoman

The legions of hell

The Miagani we see in Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne # 3 

A back-up for my info look at Batman: The Return of Bruce #1 he is seen as a dark creature to the cave men.


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2010)

In Batman Gothic: 

Batman's dialogue to random mook

Batman: _Gotham city is *hell*

We are all in  hell

And I am the King of hell!_

_small note:_ It is arguable that Hurt considers Bruce like his general. No matter what.




 However, being the perceptive precognitive being that he is Dr.Hurt/Satan/Lucifer foresaw Batman's impending doom thus the formation of the 3 Ghost (replacement Bat-men).

Batman: Black glove
#672

Pg.21-22

Lane-Batman/3rd ghost: _Hnh...Why... *Now?* *Ask* yourself *why* wereactivated. Why your *replacements* are circling like vulture.

Maybe it's because we know your *luck*is running out._

*Lane disappears in ball of smoke*

Lane-Batman/3rd ghost echo:_You'll soon be *gone*._ 



In a way you could say Batman is like Spawn. Rebels against the forces of hell yet he is one of them.



In Batman R.I.P. Last rites

#683

On Welcome to gotham city sign

W is marked off and replace with an H and another l is placed next to the l in welcome and "s" is inserted at the end of welcome

"Whellcomes to Gotham city 


in B&R #12 

Cowboy hat tuxedo/Zorro mask guy: You can keep me ssafe here, right? You're the new king of gotham, that' what they say...

Dr. Hurt: Let's call it a Return of the king. 

Batman Black Glove:

Bat #672

Batman: _If my hypothetical ultimate enemy can be imagined, I can't help considering the possibility that he actually exists. Breathing...feels like *drowning*. And if he *exists*......if the *king of crime is real*... is he telling me his name?_


Now back to the present: 

Batman & Robin 13

It is undoubtable that Dr. Hurt/Satan is planning to do the same thing as his "good and faithful servant Manfred did. 

Details:

Dr. Hurt: "Gotham City is mine and soon when the black sun sets"

pg#22 Dominoes falling down

Batman Gothic

*Bruce dream*

Setting: On little island

*Thomas Wayne is scribbling something in sand*

little Bruce in Batman costume: Dad? Please, Dad... What are you writing? Dots and lines... Father, come away. The ship is getting closer. What are you trying to *say*?

On sand: Unlock the rose

Batman & Robin # 13

Doctor Hurt: *cocking gun prepares to shoot Dick* Brief bloom

Back to Gothic:

lil Bat bruce: I don't understand. Dad, please we have to run and hide before the...

*Bruce turns to older self*

Batman: Dad? 

 Robotic zombies men: (In unison) _Ring around the rosie, apocketful of posies...

Ashes!
Ashes!

We all 

fall 

Down!_


*scene shifts to robotic zombies in desk forming Satanic hexagram with boat paddles*
_
Set us free.

Unlock the rose._


The worms build tunnels and galleries in our corrupted crypted flesh. 


Dead these twenty years. 

Such a lovely perfume to break your heart.

*Dream slowly ending*

_Unlock the rose_

Then there's Dr. Hurt's plot in the coming issues

Which also mirrors Mr. Whispers in Batman: Gothic

Gothic

Mr. Whisper: _Be thanful that you will soon die *cleanly*. You will be the pestilence...Millions sneezing and spitting blood.. 

You will be dead an hour before the cathedral bell strikes midnight and ushers in Walpurisnacht. When that bell strikes, it's tone will reverberate through the cathedral, shattering the glass that contains the plague.

B & R #13

pg 12

Gordon: Like I say our narcotics team described it as rats leaving a *ship*. Dealers, suppliers...Gone 

*Plague*: Plague is a deadly infectious disease caused by the enterobacteria Yersinia pestis (Pasteurella pestis). Primarily carried by rodents (most notably rats) and spread to humans via fleas, the disease is notorious throughout history, due to the unrivaled scale of death and devastation it brought. Plague is still endemic in some parts of the world.



Then there's the we all fall down

Nun/Lucifer: "Ring around the roses"

"Ashes! Ashes!"

We all fall down!

B & R #13

Joker: If you could *Trust* me, just this *once*. I'm too late to stop the *chain reaction* I started with that first little *Domino of death*. And now it's *All fall down time.*

Also in B & R #13 the Dollotrons are similar to the Robotic zombie in Batman: Gothic dream sequence.

Oh yeah Morrison is definitely doing the same thing

Only this time better

because it ain't Manfred at the reins of this plot it's The Devil_


----------



## Deviate (Jul 29, 2010)

mow said:


> How is it silly? The batman basis, as a concept, everything the joker, as a concept, is against.



I'm only saying that Joker can do more harm if he cared who Batman was. The Joker can really fuck with Batman if he started going after those around Bruce.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 29, 2010)

> Kevin Smith's Batman stories are the worst Batman comics I've ever read, and while I haven't actually read them all, I've read enough that I'm pretty comfortable in declaring them the worst Batman comics ever.  And with this week's release of "Batman: The Widening Gyre" #6, Smith has somehow managed to punch through the bottom of the barrel and discover a world of storytelling so thoroughly awful that I can almost -- almost -- admire it for its sheer purity.


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2010)

He's right Batman: Widening Gyre is one of the worst pieces of work I have EVER seen in my entire life. 

On another note, whaddya guys think of my theory?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

Deviate said:


> I'm only saying that Joker can do more harm if he cared who Batman was. The Joker can really fuck with Batman if he started going after those around Bruce.


Joker just wants to play, he does not have and never has had any intention of "winning"



ghstwrld said:


>


As I said before

WTH Smith?  His Green Arrow work was GREAT and then he turns out these turds


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2010)

Oi

Mickey what do you think of the theory I posted above?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 29, 2010)

As with all theories I always await to see what actually happens.  And I'm so glad I never read any of Smith's Batman work


----------



## Bender (Jul 29, 2010)

Hopefully, you guys look at it some more

I spent 3 fucking hours working on that essay/theory about Bruce being Barbatos indefinite proof of Thomas Wayne association with the devil, Dr. Hurt's plan in the oncoming issues etc.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 30, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Creative issues apparently. enough that he ended up refusing to do the issue but will still do Batman stuff for Morrison



what? how does that make sense? they fought over how cowboys should be depicted?


----------



## Castiel (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm guessing they wanted it on a certain time and to do that Stewart would have had to rush and he don't roll that way 

At least that's how I interpreted his blogpost on the subject


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 30, 2010)

Red Robin 15 Preview



"And it's just a matter of time before Damian does do something stupid, right?"
"Claws sheathed. I'm still trying to get him over wanting to kill you in your sleep, okay?"
"...Though I would be just as happy to do so while he is awake as well..."
"I'm standing right here."
"An annoyance we are all well aware of."

Try to guess the characters


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 30, 2010)

why does he have crutches


----------



## Taleran (Jul 30, 2010)

Interesting theory to say the least. I'm still gonna stick with the World's Greatest Detective and wait for this to all play out.


The overall theme of Morrison's Batman is that the reason these people are so formidable is that they can make positive things happen from lives full of despair and tragedy from a method of constant improvement, evolution and reinvention.  

as it were. 

By contrast the villains are obsessed on a single moment in the past and are never able to move past it. (Stop and think for a minute about how many Bat foes are obsessed not with a person or a belief but a single moment in the past)

It basically comes down to the overall message of The Filth, you either wallow in the shit you get dealt in life or you use it as fertilizer to grow flowers.


----------



## Bender (Jul 30, 2010)

More from my theory

Taken from DCU mesageboard where I first posted it:



> believe that the demon Barbatos is the bat that Bruce saw the night he decided to become Batman.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bender (Jul 30, 2010)

More:

Pt.III 

Concerning indefinite  proof of Thomas Wayne looking like Lucifer

Btw I'm debating with a chump while point it out



> >a. there is no similarity between Hurt and Gaimans Lucifer. Just look at the majority of lucifers pics. You found 1 that might look like him in an off handed way. That whole area of the research is stretch.
> 
> You're right I have 1 now I have 2
> 
> ...


----------



## Penance (Jul 30, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Red Robin 15 Preview
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lovely...


----------



## Agent (Jul 31, 2010)

Interesting theory, Bender.


----------



## Bender (Jul 31, 2010)

^

Thank you   

Thank you very much (Elvis Presley voice)


----------



## Castiel (Aug 4, 2010)

oh god I just realized something

Bruce is going to need a doctor...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 4, 2010)

So i've just started reading Dini's full run on 'tec comics, and its pretty awesome. I had read a few issues previously, as well as heart of hush, but never the whole run. Dude is a 1-2 shot master.

Just got to an issue about Riddler and Batman tracking down the same killer via an internet chatroom, with help from detective chimp, hilarious.

Chimp: Do you think riddler knows who we are?
Batman: Doubt it, too focused on picking others for leads. To him we're just internet nobodies.
Chimp: LOL


----------



## Bender (Aug 4, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> oh god I just realized something
> 
> Bruce is going to need a doctor...



I'm still waiting for DC to bring back Leslie Thompkins


----------



## Taleran (Aug 4, 2010)




----------



## mow (Aug 4, 2010)

Father & Son


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 4, 2010)

is it? the idea of bruce using dick's batman costume is a bit weird.


----------



## mow (Aug 4, 2010)

Don't think it's dick's costume. Looks entirety different from the previous one that Ivring drew.

EDIT: nah ignore me, it's the same one. For some reason I thought the cowl looked different

EDITEDIT: 


XD


----------



## Castiel (Aug 4, 2010)

Bender said:


> I'm still waiting for DC to bring back Leslie Thompkins



She's been back.


----------



## Bender (Aug 4, 2010)

^

Da fuck 

when? What issue?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 4, 2010)

She was on Ra's hitlist back during Yost's run in Red Robin. I thought she had been back for a good while.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 5, 2010)

Nicieze's Robin arc, a Gotham Gazette story, appearances in Red Robin and Batgirl, etc.

She patched up Cavalier so he's now her personal paladin and takes care of any ruffians who dare shame her clinic


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 5, 2010)

Damn Tim, way to commit there captain crutches.

The takedown of scarab was pretty sweet, as was the cameo from a certain titan.

EDIT: Also, the explanation of Wayne vs. Drake was pretty nice.


----------



## Bender (Aug 5, 2010)

Wait a minute I excuse me if I'm blind as fuck but I ain't see Leslie targeted by Ra's


----------



## Castiel (Aug 5, 2010)

The Batgirl issue was all about Ra's sending ninjas after her at a party


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 5, 2010)

Speaking of Gazette, how is Vicki Vale?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 5, 2010)

Well, she's forcing Tim to walk in crutches for a couple months, just to hammer home that he isn't red robin/former robin.

She's got the whole batfam figured out, except for Steph, but she has no hard evidence on any of them.


----------



## lucky (Aug 5, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Red Robin 15 Preview
> 
> 
> 
> ...



see, it really, REALLY annoys me when i'm reading comics and i see villains in their full costumes while in jail.  Really.  In fact, i'm going to neg you just for posting up that picture.


----------



## mow (Aug 5, 2010)

lucky said:


> In fact, i'm going to neg you just for posting up that picture.



Made me spit my OJ


----------



## Castiel (Aug 5, 2010)

Iron Heights has always left them in their costumes, consistently.

I'm guessing its part of the Warden's plan to demoralize them.

Many times when a villain breaks out they get their costume back and go all "I'm back bitches", but Weather Wizard's first time in jail, he was still in costume and he brought in guards to beat the shit out of him for 5 minutes straight then throw him into a cell without medical attention to sit in his own juices.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 5, 2010)

lucky said:


> see, it really, REALLY annoys me when i'm reading comics and i see villains in their full costumes while in jail.  Really.  In fact, i'm going to neg you just for posting up that picture.



Ha you gave me +rep though, not negative....



Mickey Mouse said:


> Iron Heights has always left them in their costumes, consistently.
> 
> I'm guessing its part of the Warden's plan to demoralize them.
> 
> Many times when a villain breaks out they get their costume back and go all "I'm back bitches", but Weather Wizard's first time in jail, he was still in costume and he brought in guards to beat the shit out of him for 5 minutes straight then throw him into a cell without medical attention to sit in his own juices.



Well there you go, its not my (or To's) fault


----------



## Castiel (Aug 6, 2010)

Anyone else reading Azrael, loved Hine's first issue


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 6, 2010)

I haven't read the monthly yet. How is it?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 6, 2010)

I like it a lot, one of the bigger surprises of the year for me


----------



## Bender (Aug 6, 2010)

More Batman news



> In a recent CBR video interview Grant Morrisson said that in the Batman: The Return one shot in October Bruce Wayne will make a big announcement to the world. He would not go into more than that.
> 
> In addition to this Fabian Niezca on the Batman forum on CBR said that the Vicki Vale investigation into the identities of Batman and his allies (Currently running in Red Robin) would cross over into Batman 703 (Where Dick would attempt to speak to Vicki Vale) and play a part in Batman:The Return. Here is his comment:
> 
> ...



What will he say?


----------



## Blitzomaru (Aug 7, 2010)

Bender said:


> More Batman news
> 
> 
> 
> What will he say?



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPTOvhbVfVc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Taleran (Aug 9, 2010)

Heh I was reading through Batman Reborn again and in Issue #4 the Joker introduces himself like James Bond.


----------



## Bender (Aug 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Heh I was reading through Batman Reborn again and in Issue #4 the Joker introduces himself like James Bond.



I got a more Jimminy Cricket/Jack Skellington feeling from when Joker reveals himself to be Oberon Sexton in B&R #12.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 9, 2010)

Batman Reborn HC finally came in, and because it took so long they included the BftC Companion TPB, which is better than nothing


----------



## Bender (Aug 9, 2010)

Oi you guys have any idea which Batman story arc these images are from?


----------



## Taleran (Aug 10, 2010)

Time to kick it out.





> *'Batman Inc.' gets busy as Grant Morrison takes the hero beyond 'blue-collar' rage*
> August 10, 2010 |  5:09 am
> 
> EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW & FIRST-LOOK ART
> ...


----------



## Parallax (Aug 10, 2010)

I was just gonna post that interview.  I'm really excited for the next few months.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 10, 2010)

YAY the return of the yellow symbol.


Also JOCK is new 'tec artist :WOW



> When Scott Snyder was told he'd take over Detective Comics in November, he immediately wanted Jock on art.
> 
> In fact, he was so determined to get Jock to draw the comic that he skipped the usual chain of command and just called up the artist one day.
> 
> And it worked.


The balls on this guy


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2010)

It's incredibly hard to believe Finch drew that.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 10, 2010)

Yeah I know I'm a tad more glad that I will be picking up that single to avoid getting the Road Home trade later.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 10, 2010)

here's the other Finch drawing that Tal didn't post


Also is this gonna be your first Morrison floppie?


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> here's the other Finch drawing that Tal didn't post
> 
> 
> Also is this gonna be your first Morrison floppie?



God that looks shitty as fuck


----------



## Taleran (Aug 10, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> here's the other Finch drawing that Tal didn't post
> 
> 
> Also is this gonna be your first Morrison floppie?



No I bought Batman #700


----------



## Castiel (Aug 10, 2010)

oh.

Also while I don't dislike the 2nd image, I think Glenn Fabry is the only person who can pull off that style


----------



## Taleran (Aug 10, 2010)

Yeah I'm on the fence about 701, 702. Unless there is something massive in 702 I will probably just skip over them. (depending on what trade those 2 issues are put in with in the end)


Also

Batman Inc. -> 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Batman: The Return, Batman: The Joker Corps War, The Bat-ist Night, The Bat-ist Day


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2010)

Bender said:


> Oi you guys have any idea which Batman story arc these images are from?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



No idea.



Taleran said:


> Time to kick it out.



I never really liked the yellow bit. To me, it always looked out of place on Batman's colour scheme, especially during the blue+grey days.

Batman Family?

*bitterly laughs*



Mickey Mouse said:


> YAY the return of the yellow symbol.
> 
> Also JOCK is new 'tec artist :WOW
> 
> *The balls on this guy*



What he said.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 10, 2010)

> Yeah I'm on the fence about 701, 702. Unless there is something massive in 702 I will probably just skip over them. (depending on what trade those 2 issues are put in with in the end)



You talking floppies?





> Batman: The Joker Corps War


This actually happened, it was called *Joker's Last Laugh*, Orion and Spectre's monthlies actually had tie-in issues.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 10, 2010)

yeah I think he's talking about single issues


----------



## Taleran (Aug 10, 2010)

Rest of the covers



Bland


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2010)

^

I feel like a jack-ass now

I hate the way the new Bat-family looks

Nightwing needs to come back (probably gonna die in B&R tho)

And

Cassandra Cain


I hate Barbara-Batgirl fans had they not been bitching we wouldn't have had the rushed decision to have Steph-Batgirl just because they derailed the shit out of Cass Cain. Witty humor good, I love to death. But now I'm pretty sure I know why they did what they did. And DC comics strikes me as idiots. Not as stupid as the Spiderman "One more Day" type of idiot. Well close. But still idiots. 

I find it ridiculously hilarious how they believe writing Cass Cain is difficult.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Rest of the covers
> 
> 
> 
> Bland



I like half of them, the Catwoman etc not so much, will wait to see how they look colored


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2010)

I actually think the Outsiders one is pretty damn good. Basically the first time Geo-force or whatever his name is has ever looked cool and possibly someone you want to read about.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 11, 2010)

Yeah that's my favorite of the ones posted, which is too bad since the new Outsiders has turned out to be such a huge trainwreck.

Though I kind of hope to see them in Inc, that should be interesting to see


----------



## Bender (Aug 11, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I actually think the Outsiders one is pretty damn good. Basically the first time Geo-force or whatever his name is has ever looked cool and possibly someone you want to read about.




............................................
.....
.....
You're kidding right?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 11, 2010)

Honestly aside from him slitting his own throat and then impaling Slade, I never really liked him


----------



## Taleran (Aug 11, 2010)

Geo Force has always been the sidecar to really creepy stories about other characters.


----------



## Bender (Aug 11, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Honestly aside from him slitting his own throat and then impaling Slade, I never really liked him



^

What he said


EDIT:

They made Geo-Force look sorta cool in Teen Titans Go! comic for me tho


----------



## Castiel (Aug 11, 2010)

So anyone gonna give 'tec a shot, I kind of like American Vampire so I'm eager to see how Snyder's career will shape up, also JOCK


----------



## Parallax (Aug 11, 2010)

I probably wont


----------



## Parallax (Aug 11, 2010)

>



Yanick Paquette's first Batman Inc. piece


----------



## Bender (Aug 11, 2010)

CASS-FANS (And Comic Book Guy)  may I have your attention! 

Cassandra Cain will be coming back in November


----------



## lucky (Aug 11, 2010)

hmmm.  I think bat's old duds look better.  This one looks too... sleek.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 11, 2010)

Full cover of the 8 one shots, I think it looks pretty cool


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm saying Geo-force is a bland boring character in another shitty DC team book, so it's actually impressive that the cover alone almost makes me want to check it out. It's a good cover.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2010)

also, I like the new costume. it makes sense for a 'corporate batman'. and they got rid of the underwear.


----------



## Bender (Aug 11, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I'm saying Geo-force is a bland boring character in another shitty DC team book, so it's actually impressive that the cover alone almost makes me want to check it out. It's a good cover.



I'd appreciate it if you didn't say that the current Outsiders book is GOOD

since it's taking a shit on my happy memories of Nightwing's Outsiders which was a beautiful work of art.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2010)

I never said it was good. I just said it was the opposite of good.

cover = good

book = bad

or at least I assume so, I never even gave didio's outsiders a chance. not even tomasi could make that book work.


----------



## Bender (Aug 11, 2010)

Btw word on Batman & Robin #14


You probably already know this but I'll say it anyways Morrison said that Dick is gonna have a bullet in his brain. 

So start your debating on whether he'll live or die

Regardless we're going to see a shitstorm of rage.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2010)

Cassandra Cain. Still missing.

Outsiders. There.

. . .

*sigh*



Bender said:


> CASS-FANS (And Comic Book Guy)  may I have your attention!
> 
> Cassandra Cain will be coming back in November



Where does it say that?


----------



## Bender (Aug 11, 2010)

^

You don't see it? It's on that page.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2010)

Ctrl + F for Cass is not yielding anything. Both page 3 and home page.

Where is it?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2010)

Searched and found it.

May in November?

I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## lucky (Aug 11, 2010)

Bender said:


> Btw word on Batman & Robin #14
> 
> 
> You probably already know this but I'll say it anyways Morrison said that Dick is gonna have a bullet in his brain.
> ...



nahhh he ain't gonna die.  They were debating letting dick die instead of conner kent in infinite crisis (was it?).  But concluded that he's too important a character in DCU to die.  

Unless of course they go back on their opinion...


----------



## Penance (Aug 12, 2010)

Batman Corps?  Oho...


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

lucky said:


> nahhh he ain't gonna die.  They were debating letting dick die instead of conner kent in infinite crisis (was it?).  But concluded that he's too important a character in DCU to die.
> 
> Unless of course they go back on their opinion...



No no no that was Nightwing


----------



## RockpiRate (Aug 12, 2010)

Pirate Batman sounds cool to me.  Imagine if he gonna break the lows.  That's what pirate does.


----------



## Rod (Aug 12, 2010)

The belt really brings to mind Schumacher movies' design of the same.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 12, 2010)

Bender said:


> Btw word on Batman & Robin #14
> 
> 
> You probably already know this but I'll say it anyways Morrison said that Dick is gonna have a bullet in his brain.
> ...



I'm pretty sure Dick will live, in fact I have no doubt about it.



Bender said:


> No no no that was Nightwing



Dick IS Nightwing, or rather was.  Costume change, same person.  Dolt


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

Parallax said:


> Dick IS Nightwing, or rather was.  Costume change, same person.  Dolt



I know that DOLT. 

I like calling Dick Nightwing.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 12, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _The Last Case_


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm trying to remember which interview it was - but If I remember it correctly, Morrison said that Bruce is going to reveal Hurt's true identity before the upcoming B & R gets the chance to. Sounds exciting..


----------



## Rod (Aug 12, 2010)

Fuck is wrong with TD's art these days...

Used to be at the correct measure during previous Batman issues.

Perhaps it's this inker or something.


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2010)

^

Perhaps the arcs he's writing aren't as exciting for him to write or something. Or he's getting lazy; I mean after all the man is commissioned to be the weekly Batman comic book artist.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2010)

Rod said:


> Fuck is wrong with TD's art these days...
> 
> Used to be at the correct measure during previous Batman issues.
> 
> Perhaps it's this inker or something.



He's inking himself 

Sandu's inks were awesome


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 13, 2010)

He's really gone for the steroid look lately and I don't know why.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2010)

Autistic nerd moment, but doesn't Bruce usually call him WALLY?


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> He's really gone for the steroid look lately and I don't know why.



It's cuz he's trying to go for a detailed portayal of characters like Supes, and Bats. It kinda makes sense seeing a how they're one of the most muscular fuckers in the DCU.


----------



## Rod (Aug 13, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Autistic nerd moment, but doesn't Bruce usually call him WALLY?



I'd say "Wallace" was just a very subtle way to indicate the high level etiquette of Bruce, natural from someone who born in such aristrocratic, traditional, historical family and etc... Common to act this way even if already has some kind of intimacy per se.

Also, like a friend pointed: _"Batman has his cake and eats it, too - Calling Wally "Wallace" also gives that kind of "You know the New Gods, young man" vibe. Like an old teacher calling you by your full name.

Respect ... but a little bit of "mind your elders" at the same time. Classic Bruce."_




Bender said:


> It's cuz he's trying to go for a detailed portayal of characters like Supes, and Bats. It kinda makes sense seeing a how they're one of the most muscular fuckers in the DCU.



I try to imagine it's just that it's some kind of past memory images of some story and that's why all seems a bit distorted this way.

hei I want to believe :/


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2010)

No I mean he always calls him Wally, even in situations that are just as dire.

Its just kind of random and assholeish for absolutely no reason.


----------



## Rod (Aug 13, 2010)

One more to the batdickery files then.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2010)

Again that's not the problem, he gets that way from time to time, but even when he was pissed at him I don't realyl recall him saying WALLACE.

but like I said autistic nerd moment


----------



## Rod (Aug 13, 2010)

Personally, I don't think it was like... "that" intentional of Morrison per se... Sounds like some stuff that just happened, but that is me.


Anyways, since it's Bruce again in this cowl, there needs to be some examples of Batdickery, you know for the tradition.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm liking the preview, but the art is disappointing which is really sad since I generally like Tony Daniel's art.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 13, 2010)

Tie-in to FC. . . wonder should I get. . .

Then again, it's a Morrison Batman issue. . . should get.


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2010)

^

Don't you want to know Hurt's identity?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 13, 2010)

Bender said:


> ^
> 
> Don't you want to know Hurt's identity?



I'll be reading it, yes. But buying it as a single issue or in trade? That's the question.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 13, 2010)

> To say anticipation has been high for the launch of the new BATWOMAN series would be an understatement. The character of Kate Kane instantly connected with fans, and her initial solo adventures in DETECTIVE COMICS (which you can read in the BATWOMAN: ELEGY HC ? see what I did there?) cemented the character as a lasting part of the DC Universe and the cultural landscape. Not only was she the first major gay DC superhero, she was a compelling and unique character.
> 
> A lot of that goes back to the source material, namely the story crafted by ELEGY writer Greg Rucka and the beautiful, lush work of artist J.H. Williams III. And, as we announced in this very space not long ago, Batwoman?s story would continue in the pages of her own series, co-written by Williams and W. Haden Blackman and featuring alternating artistic arcs from Williams and Amy Reeder.
> 
> ...





> That image you see above? The variant cover to BATWOMAN #0 by Reeder. Let?s touch base with the creative folk putting the issue together.
> 
> ?BATWOMAN #0 has been a great experience in that it?s a real combination of everyone?s efforts due to the nature of the story and how it?s constructed. It has been a real pleasure.,? Williams said. ?This special ?bridge? issue straddles between what came before and what is to come, but manages to be it?s own unique thing. It?s unusual construction allows two threads of content to run simultaneously, building to a greater whole, hopefully creating an interesting reading experience.?
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 13, 2010)

Bender said:


> It's cuz he's trying to go for a detailed portayal of characters like Supes, and Bats. It kinda makes sense seeing a how they're one of the most muscular fuckers in the DCU.


He's never drawn Batman that beefy before (or superman, if he's ever drawn superman). It's completely unrealistic, and looks silly compared to his past work.


----------



## Bender (Aug 13, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> He's never drawn Batman that beefy before







> It's completely unrealistic, and looks silly compared to his past work.



Yeah, I do agree that the over-beefiness is silly

although have you looked at Jim Lee's take on Bats in Batman: Hush? 



Maybe Tony Daniel is trying re-create his design on Bruce-Bats in R.I.P.. I mean was congratulated quite a bit for the art in that story arc.  




> (or superman, if he's ever drawn superman).



No he hasn't


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2010)

yeah I liked Daniel's work in RIP a lot, but yeah his art in this two parter is just weird looking to me, which is a shame


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2010)

Nguyen is leaving Streets to work on Batgirl


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 13, 2010)

I dont know why or particularly care Blaze. The proportions Daniel used in his older batman art were much better.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 13, 2010)

yeah I liked his more slim design for Bruce.  I always liked Adams "Swimmer's body" to a bulky Bruce.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 13, 2010)

I think I liked his section in 700 the most out of his Batman stuff.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 14, 2010)

Her face looks odd. 

_The variant cover to BATWOMAN #0 by Reeder_

Hmm.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 14, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I think I liked his section in 700 the most out of his Batman stuff.



...really? his style was so out of place.


----------



## Rod (Aug 14, 2010)

I'd say the decision to return with the oval logo also comes from the marketing pov. The ellipitical winged symbol is just too widespread around the general public these days, makes it versatile to work with including from this merchandising aspect, in a way it's possible to reflect or comprehend to some extent about such take from DC, besides, and not excluding obviously any other reasons (a simple redesign, a homage, w/e, etc..)but that is me.
​
I mean, even doing a pretty fast and innocent (and ofc somewhat hilarious) thing like a search in Google, for example, typing something as: "Batman shirt", or "Batman symbol" just compare.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 14, 2010)

Seeing the above, I remember when the Batwing was silhouetted against the moon in Burton's movie.


----------



## Bender (Aug 14, 2010)

^

Speaking of Burton Batman anyone who is a fan of killah Batman check this out:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ULSvR6hhyI[/YOUTUBE]



Not to piss anyone off (or probably) I'm still mad I can't find the story behind those images I posted two pages ago. 

Btw I was browsing Bat stories last night and I'm curious is this story any good?


----------



## vicious1 (Aug 15, 2010)

> BATMAN: NIGHT CRIES uses the comic book medium to shed light on the horrific real world-crime of child abuse. When a series of crimes involving child abuse shocks the citizens of Gotham City, Batman and Commissioner Gordon embark on a quest to find the immoral perpetrator. But when Batman is accused of being the enraged killer of the child abuser, it is up to a young battered girl to come forth and clear his name. Treating this issue with the true severity that it demands, this book also includes a subplot in which Commissioner Gordon must come to terms with the abuse of his past and break its vicious cycle.



That's from the DC page. Sounds like an episode of SVU.


----------



## Bender (Aug 15, 2010)

^

What the fuck is SVU?


----------



## Parallax (Aug 15, 2010)

Law and Order: Special Victims Unit


----------



## Bender (Aug 15, 2010)

^

Eh, I never could get into that show...


----------



## Parallax (Aug 16, 2010)

it's boring but popular


----------



## Castiel (Aug 16, 2010)

I like it when their writers start obviously doing drugs and writing the absolute weirdest ass shit, its fun to watch.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 16, 2010)

You know I was just thinking about Trades and if Batman & Robin (Morrison) is going to be 16 issues that is only 2 and 2/3rds trades. I wonder if DC will be smart and put the one shot leading into Inc into it. Also they would have a nice place to put Batman 700


----------



## Parallax (Aug 16, 2010)

they probably might, but I doubt it.  I usually buy singles to avoid the potential pitfalls of that


----------



## Taleran (Aug 16, 2010)

God so many little things.

Full Circle


----------



## Dynamite Right (Aug 16, 2010)

This worth reading?


----------



## Taleran (Aug 16, 2010)

What? There is more than one book that is being talked about here.


----------



## Dynamite Right (Aug 16, 2010)

OH really? I was under the assumption batman incorporated was 1 title


----------



## Parallax (Aug 16, 2010)

We talk about all Bat books here, and yes Inc is one book but it's not even out yet so yeah


----------



## Dynamite Right (Aug 16, 2010)

I really havent read anything batman since he got omega sanctioned


----------



## Agmaster (Aug 16, 2010)

Taleran said:


> God so many little things.
> 
> Full Circle


For fuck's sake.  *clapping*


----------



## Rod (Aug 16, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _ Warning: High levels of Epicness inside._ 





BD #13


----------



## Bender (Aug 16, 2010)

Parallax said:


> it's boring but popular



More popular/better than "The Wire"?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 16, 2010)

No tv show is better than the Wire you idgit.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 16, 2010)

By hook or by crook you are wrong Poozer.




Rod said:


> *Spoiler*: _ Warning: High levels of Epicness inside._
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Meh.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 16, 2010)

Have you ever even seen the Wire?

In any case they're both definitely in the top 5 of all time, though they are very hard to compare since they are completely different animals.


----------



## Bender (Aug 16, 2010)

It's a damn with WB's channel whole transition and what not. Had it not we would've got TV adaptation of "Gotham Central.



Mickey Mouse said:


> No tv show is better than the Wire you idgit.



That's what I thought


----------



## Taleran (Aug 16, 2010)

I haven't I've looked a summaries and it just doesn't seem like what I want to watch on TV

while on the subject my top 5 TV shows are probably

The Prisoner
Rome
Deadwood
Top Gear
Doctor Who


----------



## Castiel (Aug 16, 2010)

Dynamite Right said:


> OH really? I was under the assumption batman incorporated was 1 title



ok a breakdown

Batman Inc. - will definitely be worth reading, Morrison is writing and continuing his story and Yanick's art is solid.

Batman - meh, Daniel is slowly getting his foothold as a writer but he's still meh when it comes to writing.  I do love his art most of the time.

Detective Comics - I'd check it out, Snyder is a promising new writer and the art is by fucking Jock.

Batwoman - hell yes, JH Williams III's art is amazing, and even his replacement for the later arcs, Amy Reeder, is cool.  It's being co-written by the writer of the Force Unleashed games, which I have not played so I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Batman and Robin - should be alright, Tomasi/Gleason team killed in GLC so I'm confident, and Tomasi has shown that he can write a good Dick Grayson.

Streets of Gotham - I like it, though there's no real telling what direction Dini will take the book at any given moment.  Nguyen is currently the artist and he's amazing, not sure if he's sticking around.

Red Robin - a genuinely enjoyable book ,not amazing or anything but I really enjoy it.

Batgirl - this is a halfway alright title you can tell the writer is doing his best and its certainly not a bad book, a light funish read.  Nguyen is coming on and like I said he's awesome.

Azrael - Great book, recently switched to a new writer who is just doing great, only strike on the book is that March's art is hit or miss

Gotham City Sirens - fuck no.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 16, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I haven't I've looked a summaries and it just doesn't seem like what I want to watch on TV



A commonly incorrect way of thinking I've seen among a lot of people.  Good thing HBO decided to let it finish its run despite fuckers not watching it.

But really no joke this is one of the greatest shows in television history.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 16, 2010)

DAT KUBERT COVER




Absolutely loving the Redesign.


----------



## Dynamite Right (Aug 16, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> ok a breakdown
> 
> Batman Inc. - will definitely be worth reading, Morrison is writing and continuing his story and Yanick's art is solid.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the breakdown chief


----------



## Parallax (Aug 16, 2010)

The Wire is the best show HBO has ever done, hands down.  It's not even a debate.

Oh and new design is great O:


----------



## Dynamite Right (Aug 16, 2010)

Parallax said:


> The Wire is the best show HBO has ever done, hands down.


You sir are correct


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2010)

> *TEEN TITANS #89
> Written by J.T. KRUL
> Art and cover by NICOLA SCOTT & DOUG HAZLEWOOD
> 1:10 Variant cover by FRANK QUITELY *
> ...


ha


----------



## Parallax (Aug 17, 2010)

I am very tempted to check that out, but with Krul at the helm I'll probably pass


----------



## Thor (Aug 17, 2010)

Rod said:


> *Spoiler*: _ Warning: High levels of Epicness inside._
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought it was Moon Knight at 1st glimpse


----------



## Castiel (Aug 17, 2010)

which is funny because Moon Knight was Finch's best work


----------



## Bender (Aug 17, 2010)

Meh TT #89 is meh


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 17, 2010)

*Why?*


----------



## Bender (Aug 17, 2010)

My god Beechen is a shitty writer.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2010)

November is such an epic month for Batman comics.


----------



## Sylar (Aug 17, 2010)

As long as Terry doesn't start taking drugs and join the League of Assassins it shouldn't be too horrible. 

Though Beechen has surprised me before (not pleasently unfortunatly)


----------



## Rod (Aug 18, 2010)

I've to say btw, Gail is doing some excellent work in BoP if anyone cares to give it a shot.

It's worth, I suggest.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 18, 2010)

I just had the thought of Gail Simone writing BB.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 18, 2010)

Beechen's BB is a weak version of material that's already covered in the show.

What were they thinking?

Some folks have been waiting damn near ten years for a follow-up, mind.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 18, 2010)

Plus, no Max Gibson, but tons of Hush and Catwoman (i.e., shit you can get in other new releases)?!?


----------



## shit (Aug 18, 2010)

Streets of Gotham is soooooo gooooood!

Batman's mom in the past: "I've been calling your office, Roger, because I wanted to tell you about an exciting new business opportunity."

Hush's dad in the past: "Oh? I'm always excited at the prospect of widening my company's client base."

LOLOLOLOLOLKOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOLOL
OMG


----------



## Castiel (Aug 19, 2010)

Cornell interview


----------



## Taleran (Aug 20, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Textless First Look_


----------



## Parallax (Aug 20, 2010)

holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck


----------



## vicious1 (Aug 20, 2010)

HOLY SHIT. This will be awesome.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2010)

Batman Beyond is just, ugh.

Beechen's handling on Bruce and the Bruce-Terry dynamic is off, IMO.


----------



## Bender (Aug 20, 2010)

DAMMIT JOKER! 


DAMIAN you should've kept on beating him!


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 20, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Batman Beyond is just, ugh.
> 
> Beechen's handling on Bruce and the Bruce-Terry dynamic is off, IMO.



Yeah, they don't dissolve the partnership or threaten to do so until real shit goes down.

Under Beechen, Terry's retiring and Bruce's building and activating Batmen battledroids after Batman's undone in one fight by a seasoned pop-criminal.

_ugh!_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2010)

Threatening to suddenly turn off the suit like that?

Did Beechen even get past the second episode?


----------



## Castiel (Aug 20, 2010)




----------



## lucky (Aug 20, 2010)

holy fuck.  That is mutherfucking CRAZY.  i can't wait.  Those textless scans might help make that upcoming comic one of hte best ever for me.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2010)

Lord knows how long I've been waiting for hardboiled noir detective Batman.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 21, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Threatening to suddenly turn off the suit like that?
> 
> Did Beechen even get past the second episode?



And while he's obviously getting his ass kicked, no less.

I'm done.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 21, 2010)

*BOMBSHELL!!!!*






> Warner Bros. Animation?s breakthrough series Batman Beyond comes to DVD for the first time in its entirety.  Featuring DC Comics? iconic hero, Batman, Batman Beyond: The Complete Series presents nearly 20 hours of animated action spread over 52 episodes, as well as all-new bonus featurettes and a 24-page, 8?x 12? collectible booklet. Batman Beyond: The Complete Series will be distributed by Warner Home Video on November 23, 2010 as a nine-disc limited edition DVD set for $99.98 (SRP).
> 
> Batman Beyond: The Complete Series centers on Terry McGinnis, an ordinary teenager ... until his father is mysteriously murdered. Suspecting foul play at his father's company, Wayne/Powers Corporation, Terry meets Bruce Wayne and learns of a secret identity hidden for decades. Now too old to don the cape and cowl as Batman, Wayne refuses to help ? so Terry does what any brash young kid would do: steal the Bat-suit and take matters into his own hands! Vowing to avenge his father's death, Terry dons the high-tech suit tricked out with jetpacks, a supersensitive microphone and even camouflage capabilities in search of his father's assassin. It?s 52 action-packed episodes following the adventures of the partnership between an ex-crimefighter and his apprentice, starring Will Friedle (Boy Meets World) as Terry McGinnis and, reprising his seminal role, Kevin Conroy (Batman: The Animated Series) as Bruce Wayne.
> 
> ...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 21, 2010)

*OH

MY

GAWD!*


----------



## Parallax (Aug 21, 2010)

It's cool, but I haven't cared for the RoBW or the B&R variants


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 23, 2010)

> ?If anyone thought my last Batman & Robin run was ?too cartoony? (they did) they are going to puke blood when they see this.?
> 
> ?Once and future Batman & Robin artist Cameron Stewart issues fair warning about the part-Frank Quitely, part-Bruce Timm, part-Mort Drucker style he?ll be using for his upcoming return to the title with issue #16. (That?s a sample ?that isn?t too cartoony (or spoilery)? featuring Doctor Hurt above.) Have those mops at the ready, haters


----------



## Castiel (Aug 23, 2010)

I don't usually go on Twitter but one of the few times I did it was during a hilarious exchange between Cameron and many others about this complaint.  Many laughs were had


----------



## Parallax (Aug 23, 2010)

I think I'm the only one who isn't enamored with Cameron Stewart's art.  I just kinda think it's ok...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 23, 2010)

Cartoony?

. . . Eh.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 23, 2010)

Tony Daniel Interview


----------



## Bender (Aug 24, 2010)

THIS IS IT!

THIS IS THE RETURN OF CASSANDRA CAIN! 






> *RED ROBIN #17
> 
> Written by FABIAN NICIEZA; Art and cover by MARCUS TO & RAY MCCARTHY*
> 
> ...








> *BATMAN #704
> 
> Written by TONY DANIEL; Art and cover by TONY DANIEL*
> 
> ...


----------



## Parallax (Aug 24, 2010)

I actually really like the Daniel cover, I might just check this out


----------



## Bender (Aug 24, 2010)

Tim got good taste in women


----------



## Agent (Aug 24, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> ok a breakdown
> 
> Batman Inc. - will definitely be worth reading, Morrison is writing and continuing his story and Yanick's art is solid.
> 
> ...


I really thought you were going to say something good about all of them 


Rod said:


> I've to say btw, Gail is doing some excellent work in BoP if anyone cares to give it a shot.
> 
> It's worth, I suggest.


It's alright, so far nothing awesome has gone down though. 


Taleran said:


> *Spoiler*: _Textless First Look_


It's been 2 months since the last issue. 


Bender said:


> Tim got good taste in women


----------



## Agmaster (Aug 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> Tim got good taste in women


Wait wait...Lynx is Cass?  That outfit was so gaudy I just couldn't believe that.  And yes, Tim just needs a ghost and an alien to outdo Dick.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 24, 2010)

pft he'll never outdo Dick


----------



## Bender (Aug 24, 2010)

^

What?

No no no no no no no no no no no


NO

and oh yeah

no 

Cass and Tim's relationship is more like brother and sister then lovers. Well there was an interview that said they do sort hold romantic feelings for one another.


----------



## Agmaster (Aug 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> Cass and Tim's relationship is *more like brother and sister then lovers*. Well there was an interview that said they do sort hold romantic feelings for one another.


Puh leez.  They were raised by who?  Billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne.  They have pimp training in their bones.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> Tim got good taste in women



Seems to me he's trying to show he's not interested


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 24, 2010)

It's one thing for CC to show up again.

It's another thing whether they got her right.

We shall see.


----------



## Bender (Aug 24, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:
			
		

> Seems to me he's trying to show he's not interested



Tim tried doing the same with Tam Fox and we both know how well that worked out. 

He's like "Damn Tam is hot...." 



Comic Book Guy said:


> It's one thing for CC to show up again.
> 
> It's another thing whether they got her right.
> 
> We shall see.



Then come up with a cool new superhero name Cassandra should have when she re-emerges in the DCUverse. 

Tell me and I'll post your idea on the DC comics message board.   

Shoot for all we know some folks in the DC writing staff might like the idea and incorporate it when she makes her re-appearance.  


Although their is a possibility Cass might take back the Batgirl mantle. steph hasn't completely established herself as well as the previous Batgirl. And now that we know her selection of the role was due to the outcry of various dumbass Barbara/Batgirl fans we can return to her former glorious title.


----------



## Agent (Aug 24, 2010)

I doubt they'll revert it back. They plan on giving Steph her own rogues gallery and her series ain't doing bad in sales.


----------



## Castiel (Aug 24, 2010)

Cass is legally Tim's sister


----------



## Bender (Aug 24, 2010)

^

Yeah if they had a relationship it would be some ol' incessant  shit.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Aug 24, 2010)

..............................I want more Jason Todd. Preferably not like his last appearance. More like his Under the Hood appearance.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 25, 2010)

Bender said:


> Then come up with a cool new superhero name Cassandra should have when she re-emerges in the DCUverse.
> 
> Tell me and I'll post your idea on the DC comics message board.
> 
> ...



I already made a story pitch for her.

And she eventually dons her own identity -- "Kasumi" -- from her JLE days.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 25, 2010)

Speaking of Cass.



> RED ROBIN #17
> Written by FABIAN NICIEZA
> Art and cover by MARCUS TO & RAY MCCARTHY
> How does the return of Bruce Wayne and the beginning of Batman, Inc. work into Red Robin’s plan to initiate an international stranglehold on crime? If Batman approves of everything Red Robin has set in motion, what will he do when his protégé decides to release the gang-leader-and-maybe-undercover-cop Lynx from prison? *And guess which surprise guest star you’ll see when Red Robin takes a quick trip to Hong Kong!*
> On sale NOVEMBER 10 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US



Don't fuck with me nicieza. "Cass Cain: Hong Kong?" better not be a fucking red herring.


----------



## Bender (Aug 25, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I already made a story pitch for her.



Tell me more about it 



> And she eventually dons her own identity -- "Kasumi" -- from her JLE days.



Once I get some cash I'mma get Superman: "What's so funny about truth justice and the American way?" that tells about him squaring off against them.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 25, 2010)

Damn 702 was good. Yet it wasn't really anything new but it was a good look at what was going on. Also Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader is now in.


Bat Annotations for the Confused


----------



## Bender (Aug 25, 2010)

Batman #702 was just fucking...Wow

Too good to be described in words

Also.....

I KNEW IT!

I KNEW IT!

See I knew "The Caped Crusader" was cannon!


----------



## Parallax (Aug 25, 2010)

I really liked 702, Morrison just knows how to write a great Bruce.  I also liked Daniel's art on this one far more than the last issue.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 25, 2010)

Oh some other small little connections

Bruce was in bed for *3* days after his ordeal heh.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 25, 2010)

Morrison writing Bruce Wayne = win


----------



## Penance (Aug 26, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Morrison writing Bruce Wayne = win



Yup, pretty much...


----------



## Rod (Aug 26, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _ Before_ 










^


----------



## Parallax (Aug 26, 2010)

I'm actually kinda digging his new style the more and more I see it


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Aug 26, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Morrison writing Bruce Wayne = win



Batman 702 was amazing. The entire RIP=Genius. I don't understand why Hurt and the Black Glove crap is happening in the current Batman and Robin series, but I'll have to see it to completion before I can make a final judgement. You just have to do that with Morrison's work. Hope the art changes soon though, I hate this water-colored crap (IMO-only).


----------



## Parallax (Aug 26, 2010)

you don't like Frazier Irving?


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Aug 27, 2010)

Parallax said:


> you don't like Frazier Irving?



No his work in the latest Batman and Robin (once again imho) sucks. It literally is  bleak, drab, ugly, and almost offensive to my sense of sight. I have never seen an uglier cast of characters. 

Who knows, I'm not an artist, maybe you have to be one to appreciate it. 

Either way I hope it ends soon. Frank Quitely was good and most of the others as well.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 27, 2010)

well it is supposed to be bleak and dark for this arc and while I don't agree with you I can see why some people wouldn't like it


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 27, 2010)

I like Irving, but I certainly agree that his art appeals to a pretty specific niche, story-wise.

Not a fan of his Damian, but everything else is solid.


----------



## Bender (Aug 27, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _KNIGHT AND SQUIRE #1_


----------



## John Carter of Mars (Aug 28, 2010)

^ew... 

anyways... 

I just recently got myself into Batman again. After watching the late release of Under the red hood - it got me inspired to get a little more knowing on the comics.
Still find it a little difficult to accept the whole Batman passing, and how Grayson and Todd has to fight for the cowl in who would become the next batman. 
Pretty obvious it turned out to be Grayson - I know i'm late on this news but I just recently got myself reading through the short summaries of events of what happened.
And I just noticed how many robins there were - a ridiculous bunch... (jason, dick, tim, demian (or however its spelt), etc.) And them developing into another hero persona...
Batman being a pedo? D: jk jk hahaha

also pretty excited for this.
listen
robin has apretty badass costume... november is coming soon


----------



## Parallax (Aug 28, 2010)

ew to Knight and Squire?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 28, 2010)

i think most of us here like the quirky stuff like knight and squire. 

catch up on the books, bruce wayne's almost back. that whole story's unfolding right now.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 28, 2010)

That cricket joke makes the preview worth it alone.


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 28, 2010)

> While the fast-paced nature of a convention panel moved moved right along to the next subject, Sattler?s response piqued Lucas Siegel?s interest and he talked to DC, who verified exclusively to Newsarama that Batman Beyond will be an ongoing monthly series after the current mini is over.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 29, 2010)

but will beechen (beechem?) write it?


----------



## Rod (Aug 29, 2010)

I'd say it's interesting how everything happened to this book, the interview with the writer has some pretty cool moments when he reveals not knowing how DC accepted his scripts, and when you read from him previews for what we are going to get he says in a way that seems just tried to come up with some highly uncompromised (and pretty crazy in a funny way) stuff, in the end the guys bought these ideas even though he wasn't really expecting anything.  

Overall it seems it'll be a pretty light hearted and funny book, the king clone, army of clones kings, etc.. seem will produce some good laughs.

Ah, and special mention to GM, his contribution in reminding about these characters is prolly what started the idea for this book.


----------



## firefist (Aug 30, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UZ4Nkk27l4&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

anyone knows from which comic the panel @ 3:50 is?


----------



## Parallax (Aug 30, 2010)

It was pretty obvious this was gonna happen but it's still making news.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2010)

@Firefist

I wanna say thats identity crisis, right after Tim finds his father on the floor dead with a boomerang in his chest.


----------



## Disturbia (Aug 30, 2010)

Parallax said:


> It was pretty obvious this was gonna happen but it's still making news.



No shit.

Really DC? That was even more obvious than who would be Batman after _Battle for the Cowl_.


----------



## firefist (Aug 30, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> @Firefist
> 
> I wanna say thats identity crisis, right after Tim finds his father on the floor dead with a boomerang in his chest.



ok, thx very much.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2010)

Fabian Nicieza said:
			
		

> Originally, I was only going to write one of the one-shots, two at most, but I lobbied to be able to write "Red Robin." Mike wanted me to write the first "chapter" and the last one, which were the "Batman and Robin" and "Ra's al Ghul" one-shots, but I really whined a lot that I didn't really want anyone else writing the "Red Robin." I even tried to see if Chris Yost had a free minute so we could co-write it. I was trying to get my fingers into that one, no matter what. *I understand that having me write three of them is more than most readers, retailers and DC sales guys would prefer, but the only other option would have involved whoever else was chosen to write "Red Robin" dying in a tragic brake-line cutting accident before they could have finished their script. So, lots of whining, maybe an implied threat to the life of an innocent writer and several compromising pictures later, Mike acquiesced and let me write "Red Robin."*





And all of the "Road Home" Covers:


----------



## Castiel (Aug 30, 2010)

covers are old.

also DC _officially_ confirms 2 Batmen thing (I know we've all known this already but it's on paper now)
Dick will be in Batman, Detective Comics & Batman and Robin
Bruce will be in Inc. and Finch's miniseries


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Aug 30, 2010)

Disturbia said:


> No shit.
> 
> Really DC? That was even more obvious than who would be Batman after _Battle for the Cowl_.



I thought Catman had a real chance to be Batman.







What


----------



## Castiel (Aug 30, 2010)

It was never going to be anyone but Dick


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 30, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> covers are old.
> 
> also DC _officially_ confirms 2 Batmen thing (I know we've all known this already but it's on paper now)
> Dick will be in Batman, Detective Comics & Batman and Robin
> Bruce will be in Inc. and Finch's miniseries



My mistake. Oh and im pretty sure CG was joking about the catman thing.

But does anyone else find it odd how Dick will continue to have more series than Bruce?

Also, any word on Justice League? I can see Dick continuing there as well.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 30, 2010)




----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 30, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> And all of the "Road Home" Covers:



meh

And of course Batgirl looks extra foolish.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 30, 2010)

I like that Dick will actually get more than one title.  Honestly at the moment I don't wanna see anyone writing Bruce besides Morrison


----------



## Castiel (Aug 30, 2010)

David Finch is _writing_ Bruce in his mini.  That ought to be good for a laugh


----------



## Parallax (Aug 30, 2010)

I'll be ignoring that, that doesn't count.


----------



## Rod (Aug 30, 2010)

Tho, not only 2 but I'd say multiple Batmen (or at least ppl using the Batsymbol).

However, It's interesting and all but kinda suggests the "temporary" feeling me.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 30, 2010)

It's Morrison of course its temporary.  The moment he leaves the title you better believe this shit is going bye bye.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 30, 2010)

I don't think as much of it will go bye bye as with what happened with X Men


----------



## Castiel (Aug 30, 2010)

yeah, Marts/DiDio/Johns all seem to love what he's been doing as oppossed to how much Marvel didn't really care for NXM (you want to know why Morrison, an indy superstar did one book for Marvel then immidiately signed an exclusive deal with DC?  It was to completel eliminate the possibility of working at Marvel again in the near future, EVS went into excruciating details at WonderCon about how much contempt Marvel had for NXM)


----------



## Parallax (Aug 30, 2010)

where can I find an article on that?  especially the EVS bit


----------



## Castiel (Aug 30, 2010)

*shrugs*, I'd any of the big sites' WonderCon coverage, pretty much half of the entire EVS spotlight panel devolved into him talking about how Marvel in general kept acting like assholes to them.


----------



## John Carter of Mars (Aug 31, 2010)

Guys this is quite a bit off topic. But I'm going to send it off anyway.
Does anyone think 'Batman Begins' was a little bit better 'The Dark Knight'?
I kind of think so. For some reason, when i do make a comparison. The Dark Knight went super hyper-realistic after Batman Begins - don't get me wrong, I still think TDK has it's merits and strengths. But I still like Batman begins, in it's rare mysterious elemental ways. How it radiates with 'eerie', and the spotlight with obviously a little bit more one Batman. And honestly thought the pacing and order of story was way better.
Just rewatching 'Batman Begins' again, made me remember why i like Batman. And how it overshadows most superhero origin stories and endings ... anyway...

Did anyone here that DC comics is animating...

as well as another comic book adapted animated film? ... eh
(wow... sorry i know I'm kind of talking with myself right now)... keke >>

I know it's far off btw. But I just want some more news feed and info on the the third installment >> 
It's driving me...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 31, 2010)

Personally, I enjoyed TDK more because I actually felt that I was watching something more than a comics superhero film. That itself was a surprise to me when I realized it halfway through.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2010)

Feed your head.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2010)

thats a bit creepy


----------



## Bender (Aug 31, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Feed your head.



Nice imagination Joker has.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 31, 2010)

wow we finally get a cover that's on par with the Quitely ones.


----------



## John Carter of Mars (Aug 31, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Feed your head.



prlly why he laughs all the time...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2010)

Parallax said:


> wow we finally get a cover that's on par with the Quitely ones.



This.

That is an amazingly horrifying cover.

EDIT: Loving Red Hood: Lost Days, seriously, just let Winnick do a Todd ongoing.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 3, 2010)

Tomasi interview on B&R, with early Gleason pages.



> Grant was leaving Batman & Robin to move on to his new Bat book and one day I got a call from Dan Didio saying, "Grant specifically wants you to take over Batman & Robin after he leaves.”


wow that's a high honor.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Sep 4, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> This.
> 
> That is an amazingly horrifying cover.
> 
> EDIT: Loving Red Hood: Lost Days, seriously, just let Winnick do a Todd ongoing.



I'm really hoping that sales and interest in Jason Todd will get him something of his own series. Under the Hood has been one of my favorite stories in the last ten years when they broke the "Bucky" rule of the DC universe. 

When the movie came out I went nuts and started devouring every scrap of Jason Todd. Went really bat-shit insane, pun, truth be told. Something about him taking the Batman-teachings to a new level of extremity just fit perfect with him. 

I keep waiting for someone to grab a hold of the character and give him direction. SERIOUS direction inclining towards "I've been down there, so deep that its the back of my hand"-type redemption story arc. So far Winnick has Todd down so well I have a hard time imagining anyone else doing it.


----------



## Bender (Sep 4, 2010)

^

I wouldn't get my hopes up about Todd being subjected to good writing after Red Hood:Lost Days end.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Sep 5, 2010)

Bender said:


> ^
> 
> I wouldn't get my hopes up about Todd being subjected to good writing after Red Hood:Lost Days end.



*sigh* And don't I know it.


----------



## G.O.A.T. (Sep 6, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I don't think as much of it will go bye bye as with what happened with X Men



X-Men is always changing though. Batman has much more of a status quo.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 8, 2010)

Dont have time to post pics, but here's the preview for B & R 14



"A robin who even brings his own _crowbar_ to the party? You might be the funniest one yet!"


----------



## Penance (Sep 8, 2010)

Dammit, Joker...


----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2010)

^

You think that's bad just look at the spoilers


*Spoiler*: _Batman & Robin 14_ 



You've all seen the preview on the next page Hurt, in a room with Pyg and the last member of the black glove, gloats over the bat-casket and reveals that he can't open it without destroying its contents and that is his big problem. 

Commissioner Gordon is frantically trying to wake Batman up as the dollotrons close in and the self-destruct sequence on the batmobile begins to count down. Batman awakens and begins fighting the dollotrons to try and save Gordon as the batmobile continues counting down. He tries to abort the sequence but the system is too damaged to pick up his voice. There is a giant explosion and it cuts to Day 2. 


Pyg injects himself with botox as Hurt compliments him and asks if hes ready for his audience which includes the media, the mayor and the cream of Gothams underworld royalty. 

Dick wakes up to Alfred in the batbunker as the city falls to **** outside. He panics and asks where Robin is and ends up talking to the Joker via Robins communicator as the Joker informs him of his Best.Gag.Ever. Batman and Robin working for the Joker. Dick tells him that he knows its not them that he wants but the Black Glove and asks where he fits into the plan. The Joker tells him of a party being thrown in Crime Alley that they weren't invited to and are going to crash. Before Dick departs, Alfred tells him he has prepared the cave and mansion to his specifications and to be careful. 

Cut to Gordon tied down with Pyg over him as Hurt declares Gotham City as the new Capital City of Crime. Pyg goes into a speech but is interrupted by a snicker from behind. Senator Vine, the last surviving member of the Black Glove is laughing talking about how he found a golden dominoe in his popcorn before he full on succumbs to the joker venom and begins laughing and smiling. Hurt looks up distraught and flatly states "Joker". Batman shows up on the scene equipped with his Nightwing batons and begins fighting his way to Gordon who is being taunted and given a substance by Hurt. Batman is caught and confronted by Pyg but is booted right in the face as Dick breaks free from his captors. Dick runs to Gordon who begs not to be untied. He asks what the hell hes talking about and as he unties him Gordon tells him to look out behind him. Gordon knocks him unconscious with a fire extinguisher as he apologized and tells him he told him not to untie him. Gordon shouts at Hurt asking what hes done to him but Hurt pays no mind as he frantically shouts out to the Joker saying he knows he can hear him and that hes next and the Joker has no more pieces to play. 

The last page is just fantastic. The Joker is sitting down in a room with his Oberon shades and hat on with a nuclear bomb in the back and the giant Joker playing card behind him. Robin is bound upside down with tape over his mouth painted with a red smile, wearing a clown nose. The Joker tells the Black Glove to give himself a hand and that things are getting way too serious for him. 

He looks Damian in the eyes and asks "So who do I know that's good with serious...?" 

Next in Batman and Robin 

The Knight, Death and the Devil. 




Damian 

And Joker....... 


HOLY FUCKING SHIT


----------



## Taleran (Sep 8, 2010)

> The Knight, Death and the Devil



Interesting a little something about that painting



> : "In order that you may not be deterred from the path of virtue because it seems rough and dreary … and because you must constantly fight three unfair enemies—the flesh, the devil, and the world—this third rule shall be proposed to you: all of those spooks and phantoms which come upon you as if you were in the very gorges of Hades must be deemed for naught after the example of Virgil's Aeneas … Look not behind thee." Riding steadfastly through a dark Nordic gorge, Dürer's knight rides past Death on a Pale Horse, who holds out an hourglass as a reminder of life's brevity, and is followed closely behind by a pig-snouted Devil. As the embodiment of moral virtue, the rider—modeled on the tradition of heroic equestrian portraits with which Dürer was familiar from Italy—is undistracted and true to his mission. A haunting expression of the vita activa, or active life, the print is a testament to the way in which Dürer's thought and technique coalesced brilliantly in the "master engravings."
> 
> Source: Albrecht Dürer: Knight, Death, and the Devil (43.106.2) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art


----------



## Bender (Sep 8, 2010)

^

Further proof Morrison is one of the best writers DC comics has at the moment


----------



## Parallax (Sep 8, 2010)

Jesus those spoilers, fucking amazin.  Worth the wait in every way.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Sep 9, 2010)

I'm the only one whose gonna get what he wants tonight!!!
- Joker


----------



## Taleran (Sep 9, 2010)

That comic was PURE MAGIC


----------



## Disturbia (Sep 9, 2010)

B&R14 left me MIND BLOWN.

I'm loving Morrisson's take on the Joker more and more. I was out to lynch him after The Clown at Midnight but this is just brilliant stuff.

Joker looks so badass in those Sexton shades.

Frazer Irving is a fucking god.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 9, 2010)

Oh and October is gonna be a _tad_ crazy for Morrison Batman comics.

Current Schedule
10/6/2010 BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #5 
10/13/2010 BATMAN & ROBIN #15
10/27/2010 BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #6
10/27/2010 BATMAN & ROBIN #16
10/27/2010 BATMAN: THE RETURN

too much win.


----------



## Penance (Sep 9, 2010)

Three weeks of Morrison's Bats?  WIN...


----------



## Slice (Sep 9, 2010)

I'm still like 3 weeks behind my reading schedule but somehow i just cant wait when it comes to this book.

I will only say two words:


Absolutely fantastic!


----------



## Bender (Sep 9, 2010)

Penance said:


> Three weeks of Morrison's Bats?  WIN...



Indubitably


----------



## Parallax (Sep 10, 2010)

October is the best month.  #14 was terrific I can't wait to see how this all wraps up.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 10, 2010)

> Nrama: How would you describe the comic to people who might never have met Batwoman before? What kind of comic is this?
> 
> Williams: It's the darker side of Gotham, which is pretty dark considering Gotham is already dark. But at the same time, it has lots of personal elements between characters.
> 
> ...





> Nrama: The solicitation for Issue #0 specifically has a "Batman Mission Log Entry." It says Batman suspects Batwoman is socialite Kate Kane, which he intends to prove. Is that part of your first arc?
> 
> Williams: A little bit. A lot of that gets answered in the zero issue. And when Issue #0 ends, readers will see how things are going to play out with Batwoman's relationship with other Gotham titles and with the Batmen.
> 
> ...





> Nrama: As a fan of the character, it's difficult for me to separate her from my experience reading the way  Greg Rucka writes. I know you were involved in the previous storylines as well, but now that you're taking over writing, does the character and her story have a different voice?
> 
> Williams: I think so. One of the things I noticed, looking over the work that has been done so far, is that the way it moves.... it moves differently. And I think it's because we're creating a variety of cast members that each have their own stories and they intersect with each other. And it's even more apparent as we get into the second arc, as we introduce new characters and concepts.
> 
> ...


----------



## Disturbia (Sep 11, 2010)

October is turning out to be an interesting month to say the least.


----------



## Bender (Sep 13, 2010)

David Finch's cover for Batman: The Dark Knight #2


----------



## Taleran (Sep 13, 2010)

Scott Synder on Morrison's Batman run



> SS: I'm always trying to learn from him - I re-read his "Batman" all the time. "Son of Batman," "Black Glove" and "RIP" - I mean, I understand when people take issue with the twists and turns and strangeness of some of it all, but if you step back and look at all the ideas, the way Morrison is expanding the universe of Batman in a literal way - with Damian, the Man-Bat Army, Jezebel Jet, The Black Glove, Knight and Squire - and figuratively, expanding the mythology and history and symbolism by adding to the Wayne family history, drawing the cave itself back through pre-history, teasing Batman forward too, into the future with the glimpses of Damian in the cowl. Reading his run is like watching the Bat U expand and deepen right in front of you.  And regardless, there's no arguing with "Batman and Robin" - that series is one of my favorites in the last few years - I love it.


----------



## Agent (Sep 14, 2010)

Two month wait but Batman & Robin was definitely worth it!!!


----------



## Castiel (Sep 14, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Scott Synder on Morrison's Batman run



Wonder what approach he'll take with Detective, he obviously won't want to step on Morrison's toes but he'll definitely want to complement it


----------



## Taleran (Sep 15, 2010)

INC #2 Cover.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 15, 2010)

is it weird if I didnt like batman and robin 14 nearly as much as 13?

edit: finch faces are back i see


----------



## Parallax (Sep 15, 2010)

yes it is weird


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 16, 2010)

> I've written it with the idea in mind that it is part of DC continuity," Beechen told CBR News of the change that's made the miniseries strike with fans. "I wanted that to be a definite possibility, so I've referenced a lot of characters and events from Batman's past. Whether or not that ultimately proves to be the case 20 or 30 years from now, I don't know. I had talked with my editors on the book about what this was going to be, and we wanted this to be a book that could tie into mainstream DC Universe continuity if that's the way DC chose to go. They weren't 100% sure that's what they wanted to do when we started the book, but we wanted to leave them the opportunity of being able to say, 'This is the definitive future history of the Batman character.'
> 
> "The great thing about me writing 'Batman Beyond' is that no matter what I'm going to do, there will always be this period of time between what's happening in the Batman books now and what we know is going to happen with the Terry McGinnis character in 'Batman Beyond' in the future. Any number of things can happen between there that will make the 'Batman Beyond' future the actual future of Batman or not. And there are any number of explanations that can be made in the intervening years as to why it is part of DCU continuity or not – or why there are inconsistencies or not. I got handed a pretty good set of cards in that I could tell whatever story I wanted to and we can decide down the road whether it's 'official' continuity or not."





> The writer said that by "starting off with a character from existing Batman continuity that's never been a part of the series, that's your first connection right there. So from the get go we were looking at that idea." However, Beechen noted that the book adds information beyond Hush's origins to create this new futuristic version, whoever he may be. "The beauty of the Hush character is that the general M.O. of the character is that he's a guy that wears bandages and a trenchcoat and his past schemes have seemed to involve using Batman's enemies – and in some cases his friends – against him. There are any number of people that could adopt that mentality or say, 'This guy had it right. I'm going to do it that way.' Or who's to say it's not Tommy Elliot himself? We were able to tell the back story in two to three pages for that one issue while at the same time telling another back story about Hush – how Hush disappeared from Batman's life years ago.
> 
> "It's a great character, and it's really rife with great character conflict. The people who are calling this Hush 'Hush' are the media and the Bat-family. We've never heard this guy refer to himself that way. It's been a good mystery, I think, and people have been forwarding a lot of guesses on the web sites and message boards. It's been fun to watch."




 *I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO SAY ANYMORE*

Anyway, what's the big reveal?  Is it Dick Grayson?  His sudden appearance last issue seems like a really desperate stab at misdirection.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 16, 2010)

i dont know, and i did check it out out of curiosity. but i skipped an issue or 2 so maybe it'd make more sense to you. dick grayson gives his alibi, while hush is fighting a robot batman, then hush fights terry and randomly reveals that he's... dick grayson? maybe? but without the eyepatch?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 16, 2010)

I kind of hope that Beechen is deliberately taking advantage of his rep here.

Based off his history with Cass, readers can't be sure that he really wouldn't fuck with Dick Grayson like this, so he can actually pull off a red herring like this without people instantly thinking "Yea right, there's no way he would..."

Of course, I could be wrong. He could just be trollin trollin trollin.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 17, 2010)

i think hes just an unoriginal hack copying return of the joker


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 17, 2010)

Yea, there's always that.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 17, 2010)

Beechen probably thinks he's being real cute by creating a precursor project to Cadmus' Batman Beyond program that's based on Grayson.  It was a failure, and now he's escaped captivity and unknowingly taking on his replacement/brother, or some such nonsense.

It's a bunch of foolishness that has nothing to do with the show, and he freely admits it.

_ugh!_

I'm so glad I quit after the last one.


----------



## Rod (Sep 17, 2010)

Perhaps it becomes much wrong (of how good it could be imo) to imagine JH Williams and GM in a Batman issue with Joker. 


;(


----------



## Castiel (Sep 17, 2010)

solicits

usual good stuff looks good.

The annuals look like they could be good, Hine hasn't failed me yet.

B&R looks alright too


----------



## Taleran (Sep 17, 2010)

Lord Death Man has to be one of my most favorite villain names ever. Also Morrison's net grows wider as he ropes the BatManga into his canon.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 18, 2010)

Regarding Beechen on Batman Beyond:

I don't like his Bruce/Terry dynamic.

Heck, I think his Bruce is OOC.

Also --

No sign of Cassandra Cain yet.


----------



## Disturbia (Sep 19, 2010)

Batman and Robin #15, originally 8/25, set for 10/20
     Return of Bruce Wayne #5, originally 8/11, set for 10/6
     Return of Bruce Wayne #6, originally 9/1, set for 10/27
     Batman and Robin #16, originally 9/15, set for 11/3
 Batman: The Return, originally 10/27, set for 11/3
 
More delays. Fantastic.



Comic Book Guy said:


> Regarding Beechen on Batman Beyond:
> 
> I don't like his Bruce/Terry dynamic.
> 
> ...



Yeah, everything was pretty fucking stupid.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 19, 2010)

Something really cool

There are *5* arcs of Morrison's Batman & Robin. *5* Cards in a Poker Hand.

H. *BATMAN Reborn*
A. Revenge of the RED Hood
H. *BLACKest Knight*
A. Batman vs. ROBIN
!. _Batman & Robin Must Die!_ (Like always the Joker is Wild)


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 19, 2010)

Son of a diddily. . .


----------



## Parallax (Sep 19, 2010)

I normally don't let delays get to me but what the fuck this is ridiculous.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 20, 2010)

Hush TPB is released again, albeit in pencils only.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Sep 20, 2010)

Row Row Row the boat gently down the stream Merrily Merrily Lazuras's but a Dream


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Something really cool
> 
> There are *5* arcs of Morrison's Batman & Robin. *5* Cards in a Poker Hand.
> 
> ...



guessing thats just coincidence


----------



## Parallax (Sep 21, 2010)

I wouldn't put it past Morrison to do something like that though.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Sep 21, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> guessing thats just coincidence



With Morrison, there is never a coincidence. There is never a similarity. Everything he does is done in an exact, unique, and planned fashion. Nothing is ever there just because it was cool. It always has a deeper meaning. ALWAYS. 

Its the way his brain works. Check out some of his interviews on Youtube. He's amazing!


----------



## Castiel (Sep 21, 2010)

Yeah, like how HAHA is the DEAD MAN"S HAND.  Just another Morrison research joke.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 21, 2010)

Heh


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2010)

DeathGuise_of_Oblivion said:


> With Morrison, there is never a coincidence. There is never a similarity. Everything he does is done in an exact, unique, and planned fashion. Nothing is ever there just because it was cool. It always has a deeper meaning. ALWAYS.
> 
> Its the way his brain works. Check out some of his interviews on Youtube. He's amazing!


let me rephrase. it's not coincidence, it's just fans looking for patterns where they dont actually exist.


----------



## Ziko (Sep 21, 2010)

Okey, so I'm not the greatest batman fan in the world, but I think I've checked out most of the stories with the Joker right now, and I'd like to get some recommended comics with other villains like Bane, Mr. Freeze, Two Face, Poison Ivy etc.
What should I check out?


----------



## mow (Sep 28, 2010)

i want this dude to draw a batman story


----------



## Castiel (Sep 28, 2010)

Road Home actually sounds kind of interesting


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Road Home actually sounds kind of interesting



Isn't Nicieza Quarterbacking that whole thing? I know he's writing 3 of the issues (B & R, RR, Ra's).

I hope the whole thing does well. I feel like Nicieza's a B writer capable of A work.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 28, 2010)

Yeah Nicieza is a solid writer so at least we know his issues will be good.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Yeah Nicieza is a solid writer so at least we know his issues will be good.



Yup. And given how much he absolutely positively LOVES Dick Grayson, and how much he bitched (he admitted as much) to write the RR one shot, I think thats more evidence that those 2 issues especially will be good.

I feel kinda bad for him. Over in the Robin boards at the DCforums, he pointed out how much he'd love to do a Dick Grayson monthly, but how he also understnads why he'd be passed over for a "hotter" writer (the Tomasi/Gleason combo has a crap ton of steam coming off of GLC) or a writer who simply might just be better (Also possibly Tomasi).

Of course, he didn't mention any names, but there's no way he isn't thinking it.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 28, 2010)

Well Tomasi did write Nightwing longer than Nicieza (though if you look at it technically, Tomasi replaced Nicieza on that book)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 28, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Well Tomasi did write Nightwing longer than Nicieza (though if you look at it technically, Tomasi replaced Nicieza on that book)



Oh im not saying Tomasi shouldn't have gotten the job as far as B & R goes, Tomasi/Gleason are a great pair for the book. I just wouldn't be surprised if Nicieza was a little bummed out that he doesn't get to write Dick Grayson again.

But hell, he's got Tim and really likes writing him, AND he got 703 as well as the upcoming road home one shot, so im sure he's not taking it too badly.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 29, 2010)

> Arrant: In your artwork for Batwoman in Detective Comics, I see a lot of your work trying to solve problems and bringing more elements to the story instead of just depicting people ? you use style, color, mood, composition and even page layout to get some larger points across. But with you simultaneously drawing one arc and writing for another artist, how do your tendencies to get so much across with your art conflict with you ?just? being the writer for Batwoman?
> 
> Williams: Essentially it?s one of the things where you try to get as much descriptive detail in the document that you?re working on; it?s not just ?here?s what happens and here?s where it happens.? But it?s important to imbue the feelings the scenes should evoke, and what the storytellers? point is for the scene and larger story. In some ways, I?m trying to put down on paper visual descriptive stimulation along the lines of something you?d want to read besides just a bare-bones outline of a story and ?here?s some dialogue to go with it.?
> 
> ...





> Arrant: Is Batwoman strictly going to be you and Amy alternating art on arcs, or have you thought about bringing in a third artist if things get too busy?
> 
> Williams: I hate to bring in a third artist because it begins to have a mishmash feeling without a real direction, particularly when the third arc gets here. I?d hate for a third artist to have to draw that instead of myself. Each arc stands on its own, but it also builds to form a larger overall arc. I?m one of those types that can?t help but think way down the road for the characters; I feel like If we know where we?re going, it informs us in where we?re starting.





> Arrant: DC has recently begun encouraging more artists to write, from you to David Finch, Tony Daniel and others. You mentioned some resistance from DC earlier about you writing more. Can you expound on that resistance and how it's changed for you?
> 
> Williams: I think so, but it hasn't been with any real sense of maliciousness -- but rather not fully understanding your players. It simplifies things to classify people for one discipline: he's a writer, she's an artist, and so forth. When you get individuals who can do both, there's a perception, real or imagined, that one of those skills will be lackluster due to time constraints or just being more talented in one area than another. I'm sure there's some truth to that -- we've all seen artists who begin writing their own stuff and it's not as dynamic as it could be. But at the same time, I think the industry could benefit from publishers reaching out to artists and seeing what they're truly capable of.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 29, 2010)

Also didn't help Nicieza that Morrison himself DEMANDED Marts to put Tomasi on B&R when he leaves.

The stars simply did not align for him


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 29, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Also didn't help Nicieza that Morrison himself DEMANDED Marts to put Tomasi on B&R when he leaves.
> 
> The stars simply did not align for him



Ah. Yea, he also specifically mentioned how a guy like JMS has way more pull than he does when it comes to who gets what book. Safe to say, he realizes the same is true with Morrison (lord of the bat-verse).

But honestly as much as I like Fabian, Peter Tomasi is just as good (if not better) a writer than Fabian,and he has the chemistry with Gleason. Im more excited about him than I am about Tomasi. Something tells me he'll be the perfect guy for the book given the neon-noir aesthetic the book seems to be going for.


----------



## Castiel (Sep 29, 2010)

I also think Gleason will do well to continue the atmosphere of fun and zaniness Morrison initially wanted to go with


----------



## Taleran (Sep 29, 2010)

> BATMAN & ROBIN VOL. 3: THE RETURN OF BATMAN DELUXE EDITION HC
> Writer: Grant Morrison
> Artists: Cameron Stewart, Frazer Irving, David Finch and others
> Collects: BATMAN & ROBIN #13-16 and *BATMAN: THE RETURN #1*
> ...



THANK YOU DC!


----------



## Parallax (Sep 29, 2010)

Not like that wasn't expected.


----------



## Agent (Sep 29, 2010)

Taleran said:


> THANK YOU DC!


You aren't going to get the single issue?


----------



## Slice (Sep 30, 2010)

Parallax said:


> Not like that wasn't expected.



You dont always get what you expect, hence the need to buy Batman R.I.P. if you want to know how the hell Bruce wound up in Darkseids place when you read FC.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 30, 2010)

You don't need to buy RIP for that. What are you talking about.


----------



## Slice (Sep 30, 2010)

The whole "the butler did it" two parter, if you dont read that all you know is that Bruce disappears and is nowhere to be seen for a while and then pops up again in issue 6 with the bullet.... if i'm not forgetting something.


Not that its super important for the story where he was, but if such a story exists it could have been included in the FC hc.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 30, 2010)

Slice said:


> The whole "the butler did it" two parter, if you dont read that all you know is that Bruce disappears and is nowhere to be seen for a while and then pops up again in issue 6 with the bullet.... if i'm not forgetting something.
> 
> 
> Not that its super important for the story where he was, but if such a story exists it could have been included in the FC hc.



Final Crisis #2 Batman is Kidnapped, Boom Tube, thrown in Machine

Final Crisis #5 One of Darkseid's servants mentions an experiment involving Batman has gone wrong.

Final Crisis #6 is Batman, Darkseid, Bullet, Gun.


Even beyond all that, IT'S BATMAN the fact that he broke away from the villains and is standing down Darkseid is because IT'S BATMAN. 

Nuff Said.


----------



## Slice (Sep 30, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Final Crisis #2 Batman is Kidnapped, Boom Tube, thrown in Machine



Checked it, you are right.

Stupid brain always forgetting things...


----------



## Castiel (Sep 30, 2010)

Anyone else reading House of Hush?  Kind of like it

also Winick's Superman/Batman story is alright


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 30, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Anyone else reading House of Hush?  Kind of like it



House of Hush is good, I mean, Dini's hush in general is awesome.



> also Winick's Superman/Batman story is alright



Eh..it had its ups and downs.

Loved the WW/Supes scene, hated the Dick/Supes scene.

"You're wearing his skin!"


----------



## KROozu (Sep 30, 2010)

Green Lantern said:


> It'd be an interesting dynamic to see Jason Todd, the black sheep/prodigal son of the family get the mantle... And I'll love to see all the howling fanboys.



WAT. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! They wouldn't do that!!! His too crazy for that!! 

I'd Love to see Tim Drake try a crack at the cowl.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Oct 1, 2010)

KROozu said:


> WAT. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! They wouldn't do that!!! His too crazy for that!!
> 
> I'd Love to see Tim Drake try a crack at the cowl.



Why did you quote a post from over two years ago from somebody who barely posts at all anymore?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 4, 2010)

*is still awaiting proper appearance from HER*

I must see it with my own eyes.


----------



## Selty Sturluson (Oct 4, 2010)

Where's Cassandra Cain ?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 4, 2010)

Supposedly will make an appearance in the pages of Red Robin.

Whether she'll be handled properly, I'll see.


----------



## Rod (Oct 4, 2010)

Don't create too much expectations so you do not risk getting that disappointed.

Rather keep it low and may even be surprised.

I hope for the best, but am prepared for the worst.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 5, 2010)

I dont really get all this apprehension.

I mean, its not going to be an OMGWTFAWESOMETOTALLYMAKESUPFORBEECHEN appearance, but I highly doubt she'll be handled badly.

And its been all but outright confirmed that she will indeed be making an appearance.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 6, 2010)

> *One of the pleasant surprises of the last few months has been BATMAN: BEYOND, from writer Adam Beechen and artist Ryan Benjamin.* Beechen’s whodunit take, involving Batman villains past, present and future, connected with fans of the original animated series and a number of new readers intrigued by the futuristic Batman and his vast supporting cast – both familiar and new.
> 
> Paired with Ryan Benjamin’s dynamic and stylized art, BATMAN BEYOND became the surprise hit of the season and, well, what we’re about to announce became a bit of a no brainer: *Starting in January, BATMAN BEYOND goes from mini to ongoing, with a new #1 and the same creative team.*
> 
> What’s in store? What other heroes and villains can we expect to see? I’ll leave that to Mr. Beechen to share at a later date. In the meantime, we’ve got a first look at the cover to BATMAN BEYOND #1, which kind of screams iconic, doesn’t it?


----------



## Selty Sturluson (Oct 7, 2010)

Not sure if want.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 7, 2010)

I know I don't


----------



## Slice (Oct 7, 2010)

Selty Sturluson said:


> Not sure if want.



The "same creative team" part should solve this problem.

Do not want


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 7, 2010)

So what was the explanation for that whole "Dick Grayson is Hush" thing?


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 7, 2010)

Cadmus is involved.  It's probably some sort of genetic experiment that's gone terribly awry.  

_ugh!_


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 7, 2010)

> Before we get into the new series, let's return to the big reveal fans saw in issue #4 of the mini when Dick Grayson unmasked himself as the "Hush" villain at the heart of the arc. What does that move mean for the conclusion of this story and for the way the world of "Batman Beyond" will be shaped now that this vital character from Batman's history has stepped into the book?
> 
> Well, there's two Dick Grayson's running around. There's the one who's adopted the identity of ? or at least has been branded by the media as ? Hush, and then there's the older Dick Grayson who had the falling out with Bruce Wayne. Either way, it's going to change the dynamic of the universe. One of them is obviously not the real Dick Grayson. One of them is a bad guy while the other is sort of a mystery character for now. I'd say the major change in this version of Batman Beyond is that we now know what happened to Dick Grayson, which was never explained in the animated series. It's his first appearance in the world of this series, and we'll have to see, based on the outcome of the miniseries, how he sticks around and the part he plays in the dynamic of Bruce and Terry and the whole world of "Batman Beyond."





> Last time, we talked about making the mini a series where the continuity of the modern Batman comics could sit right next to what had come in the animated series. Is that a thread you'll continue to develop in the ongoing?
> 
> My idea is to continue tying existing Batman continuity to what we're doing with "Batman Beyond" as much as we're able to do. I want to throw nuggets in that longtime Batman comic book readers will be familiar with while still respecting the future that's been created by the "Batman Beyond" animated series. It's a bit of a challenge to do that ? trying to reconcile those two ideas ? but it's also part of the fun of writing this book. We make sure that all the potential audiences get something out of it in order to turn it into one big audience.





> Will that supporting cast expand out to include folks like the new Catwoman and Dick Grayson? Are you going to carry over those threads from the mini?
> 
> I'd absolutely love to. That's my goal. These characters are now established in the universe, and we want them popping up much like any character can pop up in any Bat-book. One of our goals is between story arcs of the new ongoing to do stand-alone stories that spotlight a different character every time. Much in the same way that James Robinson in "Starman" would break up the bigger stories with "Times Past" issues, we want to resurrect the notion of "Legends of the Dark Knight" and do single-issue stories that focus on Batman from another character's point of view, whether that's one of our regular cast members or a denizen of Gotham or perhaps a supervillain or even Ace the Bathound. [Laughs] We want to take a different perspective on our lead character and in that way flesh out the supporting cast. We'll have lots of opportunities to explore this world. I'm pretty excited about that "Legends of the Dark Knight" notion, actually, because that was one of my favorite books. The chance to bring that back ? albeit in a different context ? is pretty exciting.




 _*I CAN'T*_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 7, 2010)

Ewww.

So, anybody read the most recent Lost Days? More evidence that a Jason Todd ongoing would rock (so long as it sort of glosses over the sadsack stuff from B & R and the crazy stuff from BfTC)


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 7, 2010)

what annoys me there is that hes just completely ignoring morrison's batman beyond bit and trying to fit it into 'canon'. that's just fucked up, it belongs to the animated series universe.

lost days is pretty solid, i dunno if it'd be worth an ongoing though


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 7, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> what annoys me there is that hes just completely ignoring morrison's batman beyond bit and trying to fit it into 'canon'. that's just fucked up, it belongs to the animated series universe.
> 
> lost days is pretty solid, i dunno if it'd be worth an ongoing though



Agreed.

As for lost days, I dunno, I love it.

It doesn't feel like im reading a batman comic, but instead reading an action movie comic starring jason todd. His personality is great, I love his banter and cunning, and I love watching him fight. This is the Jason I want to read about, not the crazy fishbowl clad joker pastiche.

I know its not Morrison's fault (he took what had already been done in Bftc and made it work for his story), but his characterization certainly didn't help matters.

Jason Todd would work great in an ongoing so long as it was completely separate from Gotham city and it glossed over the events of B&R and BftC.

EDIT: Also, if you look at all the stuff DC sells that is absolute trash (Titans, Outsiders, etc.), a Winnick written Jason Todd book would at least be consistently solid.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 8, 2010)

promos for the major books


----------



## Castiel (Oct 8, 2010)

Morrison interview


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 8, 2010)

I like Lost Days.

As for Beechen on BB. . .

Tsch. What did we expect?


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 8, 2010)

So, they're releasing the Road Home before the ROBW is finished?

Um, okay.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 8, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> promos for the major books





Batwoman in NOVEMBER!


----------



## Parallax (Oct 8, 2010)

I thought this was old news.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 8, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I thought this was old news.



It is; I was just posting a reminder.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 9, 2010)

So Snyder says his new run on Detective Comics will be an actual _detective comic book_.

Which I gotta say I'm pretty interested it, and Jock is just going to slam it out of the park.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 9, 2010)

Surprised there's no promo for Gleason/Tomasi Batman and Robin


----------



## Castiel (Oct 9, 2010)




----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 9, 2010)

Tsch. Aunt May's cookies are better.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 10, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> So Snyder says his new run on Detective Comics will be an actual _detective comic book_.
> 
> Which I gotta say I'm pretty interested it, and Jock is just going to slam it out of the park.



Ok now I'm interested in this.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 10, 2010)

If Slam Bradley is in, I'll be reading.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2010)

Almost here,

*Return of Bruce Wayne #5*


----------



## Penance (Oct 11, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Almost here,
> 
> *Return of Bruce Wayne #5*



....it's almost time...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2010)

Isn't Lamarr the name of the actress from The Black Glove, who starred opposite Mangrove Pierce?

Its going to be interesting to see how this ties into R.I.P.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 11, 2010)

Ryan Sook not doing the whole issue 

Never heard of this other guy 


DC


----------



## Castiel (Oct 11, 2010)

He did fill in work on the superbooks in the year of Robinson, at least Gray is inking him so that's a plus.

but yeah no Sook for a whole issue


----------



## Taleran (Oct 11, 2010)

Maybe that is what Bruce meant by “Mangrove Pierce, my father's double and mine”. Bruce was Mangrove.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Maybe that is what Bruce meant by ?Mangrove Pierce, my father's double and mine?. Bruce was Mangrove.



Yea, as soon as I saw Martha (Lamarr) I thought about how Mangrove might be Bruce.

Which issue did he say that again?

Also, its kinda weird that there's the possibility that Bruce will encounter Kid Bruce here.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 11, 2010)

He said that in the last issue of RIP when Hurt was making his huge speech.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 11, 2010)

Ah gotcha, I see.

Ha, im so conflicted when it comes to Morrison's Batman. I don't want it to ever end, but at the same time I can't wait for it to be finished so I can read the entire thing as a whole.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 11, 2010)

Loving how this all ties together.  But why is Sook not drawing the whole issue?  If it's cause he's too slow then I'm not too upset about it.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm guessing that's the case, all Sook work recently has had fill in work


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 11, 2010)

Man, noir detective Batman. . . can't freaking wait.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Oct 11, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Man, noir detective Batman *written by Grant Morrison*. . . can't freaking wait.



Fix'd for Truth!


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 12, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Ryan Sook not doing the whole issue
> 
> Never heard of this other guy
> 
> ...



I'd probably blame Sook personally. I mean, he's had to have plenty of time to draw this one issue, right?


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 12, 2010)

That BD spread probably gummed it up.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 12, 2010)

Honestly I have no sympathy for late artists, Keith Giffen said it best "Jump in a fire and die".  Especially when Sook had MONTHS to draw it.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 12, 2010)

I could understand if he were working on a monthly title or something. shit happens month to month, or some artists cant keep up with that schedule and need breaks. but for one issue?


----------



## Taleran (Oct 13, 2010)

Return of Bruce Wayne #6 delayed back to November 10th (after all the new stuff about Bruce being back is supposed to come out)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 13, 2010)

That's kind of ridiculous.

And just checking, but the chronological order for the upcoming issues would be...

Batman and Robin #16
Return of Bruce Wayne #6
Batman: The Road Home
Batman: The Return
Batman Inc

right?


----------



## Parallax (Oct 13, 2010)

fucking delays.  Seriously these artists need to stop being fucking slow.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 13, 2010)

Road Home isn't involved The Return is the Morrison issue of that and thus the only important one.

It's probably

RoBW #6 / B&R #6 (These could go either way depending on how they are structured)
Batman: The Return
Batman Inc



> fucking delays. Seriously these artists need to stop being fucking slow.



The worst part about #6 is the artist is no one to write home about that is doing it. He isn't even that high profile.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 13, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Road Home isn't involved The Return is the Morrison issue of that and thus the only important one.
> 
> It's probably
> 
> ...



Gotcha.

Although not being written by Morrison isn't enough of a reason for me to skip out on the road home. Nicieza is decent enough for me to check out a few of the issues.



> The worst part about #6 is the artist is no one to write home about that is doing it. He isn't even that high profile.



And im guessing DC will not give any reason for the delays.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 13, 2010)

> The worst part about #6 is the artist is no one to write home about that is doing it. He isn't even that high profile.


True, but I still really like Garbett, he did solid work on Outsiders and Batgirl.  

I'm guessing Morrison liked his two part FC tie-in and this is him trying to make him high profile.



> Although not being written by Morrison isn't enough of a reason for me to skip out on the road home. Nicieza is decent enough for me to check out a few of the issues


Ditto.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 13, 2010)

Road Home B & R and RR were both solid, although I liked B & R more than RR.

Return of Bruce Wayne was....wow, the way it ties into everything else is incredible, and the writing and art completely nailed the noir feel while still keeping it distinctly batman.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 13, 2010)

'nother Morrison interview


----------



## Taleran (Oct 13, 2010)

> Everything is building to a head as "Batman & Robin" wraps and "Return of Bruce Wayne" wraps, and all along there's been a real sinister element to the proceedings. Superman said in "Return" that Darkseid has somehow turned Batman into a weapon as he travels through time towards this box Hurt has. As this all hits, will it change the tone of your Batman run from that less gritty take you spoke about?
> 
> We tended to actually bring all of that to a close. *By the time this story ends, we've dealt with the furthest out sci-fi Batman I can think of, which is in "Return" #6. It's almost "Batman meets Jack Kirby."* We're wrapping up the supernatural and horror elements. The new "Batman Inc." stuff is very different tonally. This one is really about closing off all those elements. I feel like I've taken to the limit with Batman. If I push it any further, he might just become ridiculous. [Laughs] I kind of wanted to take the sci-fi Batman and the supernatural Batman to very natural conclusions so we could move on from there.



The DELAYS ARE GETTING HARDER


----------



## Castiel (Oct 13, 2010)

Garbett is a lightning fast artist (see there's a bright side Tal) so I wouldn't expect any more delays.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 13, 2010)

I LOLed


----------



## Parallax (Oct 13, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Garbett is a lightning fast artist (see there's a bright side Tal) so I wouldn't expect any more delays.



fast enough for that shit to get delayed :|

Though I really blame Irving on the delays.  And I'll throw in Stewart and Finch for the hell of it.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 13, 2010)

Garbett is one of the few working artist who can keep up a monthly schedule for extended periods, so It's not on him.  I'm guessing they're putting a month gap between his issue and the ones that preceed


----------



## Parallax (Oct 13, 2010)

The delays just make me so angry.  DC really fucked up the great momentum they had going into this month and now into the next.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Oct 13, 2010)

Parallax said:


> fast enough for that shit to get delayed :|
> 
> Though I really blame Irving on the delays.  And I'll throw in Stewart and Finch for the hell of it.



I'll blame Irving, but just because I hate his art. I'm no artist so take it with a grain of salt, but I just really hate it. Its offensive, disproportionate, it makes me kind of nauseous (not the quality is so bad its making me sick kind, the I actually feel like I'm gonna hurl kind) and I have a harder time following the story because of it. I have a hard time taking the story serious because it just screams a distinct surrealism I can't get into.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 13, 2010)

#5 was FUCKING AWESOME.


God can't not wait to see how these last 3 issues finish off the picture.


----------



## Z (Oct 13, 2010)

Damn! 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Are these Thomas Wayne rumors really true?  That would be insane if they actually are.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 13, 2010)

When the grandmother talked about 2 Thomas Waynes a NIGHT and DAY it  was literal. Nice to see Metron out and about again too.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 14, 2010)

metron? did i miss something?


----------



## Taleran (Oct 14, 2010)

The dude in blue in the wheelchair who tells Batman to beware the Hole in all Things.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 14, 2010)

I guess that makes sense, but i thought all the new gods were reborn in kirbyland or whatever.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 14, 2010)

Yeah but that scene takes place like 30 40 years before Final Crisis


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 14, 2010)

"The plot's got a few holes, but I think it's starting to make sense."


----------



## Castiel (Oct 14, 2010)

I think Pere Perez did alright for himself, he's not Sook but he wasn't bad.  He did a good job matching his style to Sook.

Though I'm glad they got Sook to do the last page.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 14, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> "The plot's got a few holes, but I think it's starting to make sense."



yeah that made me laugh. 

the road home stuff was pretty boring btw. oddly i think i enjoyed the batgirl one the most. it sort of addresses cassandra in a small but important way.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 14, 2010)

The batgirl one was fun, honestly, Miller is shaping up imo. And once Dustin starts doing art its going to get even better. But I agree pete, B & R and batgirl were the ones I enjoyed most. Red Robin was just kinda there, despite the fact that its one of my favorite books/characters

Steph slapping bruce for testing her and then immediately thinking "ohgodohgodohgod" and running away was funny.

And yea, the bit about Cass was pretty cool. Sets things up for her guest issue of Red Robin.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 14, 2010)

I hope the current artist gets put on a decent book though. With that issue at least he did a good job on the art, it actually looks better than a lot of DC books right now.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 14, 2010)

Which artist you talking about?  If its Perez then yes he knocked it out of the park in this issue, I was all set to be disappointed by a botched fill in job but the transition was almost seemless.

If you mean the artist of Batgirl whom Nguyen is replacing, he's doing Return #6


----------



## Castiel (Oct 14, 2010)




----------



## Petes12 (Oct 14, 2010)

oh. I assumed the artist was the same for the ongoing and the one shot. but i guess not? 

also teen titans does not deserve a quitely cover, no matter how awesome it is. inside it'll be written by krul. thats just not fair.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 14, 2010)

While I agree, I'll take Quitely Damian where I can find it.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 14, 2010)

how bout he stops doing covers and does an issue or 2 somewhere


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 14, 2010)

Good point.

Does he have some kinda hand issue that prevents him from doing that much work? Or is it just laziness?


----------



## Parallax (Oct 14, 2010)

He's slow and I've heard he currently has medical problems.

Doesn't change the fact that he'd be slow even without them.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 14, 2010)

im just saying if he wasnt doing tons of covers he could do an issue here or there


----------



## Parallax (Oct 14, 2010)

probaby, I really wish he would get back on a title or something


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 14, 2010)

I remember someone asked Quitely at a panel here, something along the lines, "What do you wish for?"

Quitely answered, "Being on time."


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 14, 2010)

Red Robin and Batgirl were pretty good


----------



## Taleran (Oct 14, 2010)

Thats kinda funny but I had no idea that Serious House was the highest selling Batman trade of all time and one of the top 10 selling trades all together.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 14, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> Red Robin and Batgirl were pretty good



Despite my timtardism, I actually enjoyed Batgirl more than Red Robin. I guess its because RR was really predictable (except for the bit with dear prudence). I knew it was gonna be:

*physical alteractation*
"Dear diary white casebook, Tim's a smart friend and we're a great team, but he needs to learn to handle his shit when it hits the fan. "


----------



## Castiel (Oct 15, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Thats kinda funny but I had no idea that Serious House was the highest selling Batman trade of all time and one of the top 10 selling trades all together.



Morrison himself brings it up in an interview every time he's asked why DC allows him to do whatever he fucking wants.

Which is a very good argument.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 15, 2010)

Huh, due to all the wank I hear I'd always assumed year one was at the top of the bat-list.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 15, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Despite my timtardism, I actually enjoyed Batgirl more than Red Robin. I guess its because RR was really predictable (except for the bit with dear prudence). I knew it was gonna be:
> 
> *physical alteractation*
> "Dear diary white casebook, Tim's a smart friend and we're a great team, but he needs to learn to handle his shit when it hits the fan. "



I like Prudence. She's kinky

If only she had hair to pull....


----------



## Taleran (Oct 15, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Huh, due to all the wank I hear I'd always assumed year one was at the top of the bat-list.



Yeah Arkham Asylum had the fortune of coming out right near the first Burton Batman movie or around there so people were in full Batmania and most of them bought it and were thoroughly confused when it it was *NOTHING* like the movie.

Oh and the first Knight and Squire was a strange dissapointment. Too much British too little everything else hope it gets better.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 15, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Yeah Arkham Asylum had the fortune of coming out right near the first Burton Batman movie or around there so people were in full Batmania and most of them bought it and were thoroughly confused when it it was *NOTHING* like the movie.
> 
> Oh and the first Knight and Squire was a strange dissapointment. Too much British too little everything else hope it gets better.



Ah, that makes sense.

And yea, I feel kinda weird criticizing it for that but K & S was indeed too British. Felt like I was reading clockwork orange or some shit (although thats a bit of an exaggeration).

Groundwork seems good, hopefully once things get moving it'll improve.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 15, 2010)

British to American translator

Some of these are just demented.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 15, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> British to American translator
> 
> Some of these are just demented.



Yea....I mean, props to Cornell for going full brit on us, but its a bit grating when I need to look at a glossary for every other word. 

Its like for every word block/bubble, there should be another one right next to it, translated haha.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 15, 2010)

I thought it was ok.  Due to me reading and watching an obscene amount of British material over the years most of the slang wasn't THAT hard to read but there were a few times I was scratching my head.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 16, 2010)

> BATMAN INCORPORATED #3
> Written by GRANT MORRISON
> Art and cover by YANICK PAQUETTE & MICHAEL LACOMBE
> 1:25 Variant cover by J.H. WILLIAMS III
> ...



Guacho


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 16, 2010)

Argentina representative? So Batman Incorporated is going to be a global thing? Sweet. I had been thinking it would be limited to Gotham or the US.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 16, 2010)

Did you not see all the different towers in Kubert's cover to INC #1? Its been Global the entire time (first arc being in Japan)


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 16, 2010)

...no. I haven't really been reading any of the interviews or previews. Or I just forgot what I did read.

Still, that's pretty damn cool. Batmen or Bat related crime fighters all over the world. It's fantastic.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 16, 2010)

Here is the image I was talking about



It also makes an apt Parallel for the Superman Squad of the future "As above, so below"


----------



## Bergelmir (Oct 16, 2010)

Aaah, I see what you were saying now.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 16, 2010)

rest of the solicits

Regular good stuff (B&R, Azrael, 'tec and Streets) all look good.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 16, 2010)

I'm still cringing at Beechen and Batman Beyond.


----------



## Penance (Oct 16, 2010)

Giddy.....


----------



## Taleran (Oct 16, 2010)

This is kinda funny and really really sad



> Further, for reasons unknown to me, rather than shipping the scheduled 2-per-week the "Road Home" books were solicited as, DC made the decision to ship the first four in a single week. Ugh.
> 
> Then, instead of being "one shots," as their solicitation text describes, the final product turns out to effectively be an eight-issue miniseries, with each one-shot being released with "to be continued in…" the next "one shot." Naturally, someone messes up the production and at least one of the books "points" to the wrong "next" title. And let's not forget to mention that the eight covers link up to form a single image – but that that image is neither the order of release, nor of reading order. Plus, and I'm just saying here, at the time of solicitation these book's covers were redacted with a "Top Secret!" banner, but once the cover was revealed, there wasn't anything even remotely "spoilery" about any of them – my guess? Simply that the covers hadn't been drawn yet by the deadline for the catalog! Ugh. Ugh! UGH!



More and More glad I don't care about any of the Road Home books.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 16, 2010)

Got around to reading the Road Home one-shots.  Actually not bad so far, Nicieza is an all around solid writer who writes a good enough story.

edit:  haha wow DC editorial.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 17, 2010)

DC editorial has been fucking up lately.  I'm still not sure why they're shipping Morrison's stuff in the order that they're doing it.


----------



## Slice (Oct 17, 2010)

As always it is totally stupid to ship issues with one character returned before the actual issues where said return takes place.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 17, 2010)

What's the Road Home about anyway?

The previews read like fanfiction.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 17, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> What's the Road Home about anyway?
> 
> The previews read like fanfiction.



Bruce is back Oh My God you guys. Basically they are those issues of books after events that deal with WHAT IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING. Instead of giving Bruce a couple pages in each ongoing and doing most of the explaining in one book (SEE: What marvel did with Captain America after Siege), they decided to give each interaction its own book, and then completely ruin every possible thing about its release.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 17, 2010)

Meanwhile, beyond Bruce's death, they still haven't seriously dealt with the aftermath of Final Crisis.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 17, 2010)

Oh, and where's Wonder Woman's 'unique and yet familiar logo treatment' cover?

I swear, she's such a back burner bitch.  They're not even pretending anymore.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 17, 2010)

You could read the Road Home as one shots if you wanted, the greater plot doesnt actually seem very important. The connecting plot threads in road home are 1) bruce is back and testing everyone to see how they've grown while he was gone or some bs, 2) assasins are trying to kill a bunch of mayors or something, 3) Vicki Vale knows bruce is batman and is trying to prove it/decide whether to run the story or not. 

But mostly they're just the first one, where Batman judges whoever the book is about, usually really lamely. They don't seem to even mine the potential emotions of everyone finding out bruce is alive again.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 17, 2010)

And I'm sure Wonder Woman has one of those covers, god even Wonder Girl got one. They just havent released the solicit yet. They haven't released the Superman solicits either.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 17, 2010)

Fancy that.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 17, 2010)

*still waits for Cassandra Cain*


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Oct 17, 2010)

Glad Steel and Shazam are getting ones. Fuck Wonder Woman in the face


----------



## Parallax (Oct 17, 2010)

I kinda like the covers...


----------



## Castiel (Oct 18, 2010)

in the solicit for Knight and Squire we find out Knight has a *"very american"* butler 


also #700 and the RIP epilogue will be packaged with Nicieza's #703.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 18, 2010)

So that is what they are doing with them.



> BATMAN: TIME AND THE BATMAN HC
> Written by GRANT MORRISON and FABIAN NICIEZA
> Art by DAVID FINCH, TONY DANIEL, ANDY KUBERT and FRANK QUITELY
> Cover by DAVID FINCH and SCOTT WILLIAMS
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Oct 18, 2010)

Well the issue in question wasn't bad, and without it it is just south of the "this is a rip off" line for tpb content


----------



## Rod (Oct 19, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> "(...)They don't seem to even mine the potential emotions of everyone finding out bruce is alive again."




That's perhaps the biggest issue from the beginning, either way (dead/alive).


----------



## Parallax (Oct 19, 2010)

The collection makes sense, it's worth picking up at the very least.  Assuming you don't already own the issues.  I wonder if at some point they decide to reprint Batman R.I.P. as an Absolute or whatever if they'd include #701 & 702


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 19, 2010)

Preview for B & R 15

Here

Why Frazer Irving is THE SHIT:


----------



## Castiel (Oct 19, 2010)

Another Morrison interview


----------



## Parallax (Oct 19, 2010)

Holy fuck this is just fucking fantastic.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 20, 2010)

An idea came to me about Hurt. We all believe that DC isn't going to retroactively retcon what Morrison does in the Bat Universe ala New X-Men, but I think that part of that is that Morrison is going to do some of it for them.

Dr. Hurt is a character who only really works once. The beyond rich Gambler/200 year old ancestor/SATAN and been planning the downfall of Batman for a LOOOOOOOOONG time. Once he fails the first time he is spent. Where villains like Pyg, Flamingo, only had 3 issues, Hurt has been here since almost the beginning. This has all been a big play that has been using the History of Batman and the little hidden away Black Casebook stories as weapons against Batman. Which is the same thing that the Omega Sanction the Life Trap is doing to Bruce. Coincidence, nope. Hurt isn't Darkseid or one of his henchmen or servants. Hurt and all the stories and Black Casebook adventures that Bruce has been fighting through all this time have been part of the Sanction and when you defeat Omega the stuff inside it and created by it fade away. It is just like Morrison said the final send off the Science Fiction adventure version of Batman and how better than to have the character interact with the Science Gods of Kirby and once you've done that how do you go back and top it?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 20, 2010)

My only worry would be that because Morrison has made Hurt such an awesome villain, on par with Ra's or The Joker, that DC won't be content just not using him in the future.

So, onto Batman and Robin #15. Everything was awesome, although I might be a little disappointed with the last page, as awesome as it was.


----------



## Z (Oct 20, 2010)

My God Batman and Robin issue this week was utterly amazing.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 20, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> 'nother Morrison interview




part II


----------



## Taleran (Oct 20, 2010)

Btw Beechan killed Mad Stan in the latest Beyond comic.


What the hell man. What the hell.


----------



## ghstwrld (Oct 20, 2010)

So, once again, DC waits damn near ten years to do a follow-up story to BB, and when they finally do so, they go with shit that has nothing to do with the show?!?

_ugh!_

Has Max Gibson even shown up yet?


----------



## Castiel (Oct 20, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Btw Beechan killed Mad Stan in the latest Beyond comic.
> 
> 
> What the hell man. What the hell.



I loved that guy,

"NO MORE JURY DUTY"

he looked so happy


----------



## Rod (Oct 20, 2010)

Continuing some of the discussion above...

What is interesting as Dc hasn't that many of psychic/psychological fuck specialists/mental  based characters while Marvel has in lots with all kinds of specific powers (Xavier, Jg, Gambit, Nathan, Psylocke, Franklin R, etc... etc... etc... go on list). These few folks in Dc's case (Hurt, Max Lord, Joker) readers seem to be a bit more eager as they differ from the usual, that is... from what I notice ofc.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 20, 2010)

A Dick Grayson clone.

Son of a diddily damn it. . .

As for Miller's mention of Cassandra Cain?

About fucking damn time.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm not really clear on what Hurt expected to be in Batman's box, anyone that can explain what was supposed to be in there? Or is that a mystery or was Barbatos just legends of batman from ancient times and hurt didnt even know it?


----------



## Taleran (Oct 20, 2010)

That is what I'm guessing. He kept thinking Barbatos was a Demon but it was just the Bat Man myth passed down through the ages.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 20, 2010)

Irving is the man.

That last page was amazing


----------



## Taleran (Oct 20, 2010)




----------



## Petes12 (Oct 20, 2010)

you're going to have to explain that to me I think. I have no idea who that is.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 20, 2010)

Really? You haven't seen the Princess Bride?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 20, 2010)

it's older than me and it's not star wars

edit: actually watching this, I think I've seen it before. But I dont remember anything about it.


----------



## Penance (Oct 21, 2010)

Movie was greatness...


----------



## Castiel (Oct 21, 2010)

Wallace Shawn was great in that role (*INCONCEIVABLE*).  Everything about that movie was great


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 21, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Wallace Shawn was great in that role (*INCONCEIVABLE*).  Everything about that movie was great


----------



## Rod (Oct 21, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _ Hurt's identity_ 





Grant Morrison, he breaks the 4th wall and reveals it was him all along.


Can't be beaten, he created, he knows it all, and at some point he'll kill him, he's the writter, Batman can't exist without him.

tho actually it'd be kind of cool if he did that​


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 21, 2010)

"Devil man. . . meet Bat God."


----------



## Taleran (Oct 21, 2010)

God this quote is near perfection as to why the final scene of Final Crisis #6 is PERFECT




> The Nu Gods are always operating in the upper atmosphere of the DCU, they literally ARE what they symbolise, and they know it. That’s why they can do incredible things and fuck with time and space like nobody else - they can see the physics, the gears and levers of the DCU, grinding away - and why they are primal baddies and goodies portrayed with little to no motivation. They don’t need motivation precisley because they ARE the goodies and they ARE the baddies - the comicbook schematic reduced/ascended to its purest form. The meeting of Batman and Darkseid was fascinating because they really do represent the two fundamental polarities in a superhero book, the earthy, ‘realistic’, base level optimum man, the perfect bridge between reader and universe because appears to obey many of the same rules we do, and the most comicbooky, crazy ass sci fi supervillain ever - a meeting of Heaven and Earth, the Final Crisis, Darkseid ‘falling’ down to Batman’s level and Batman ‘ascending’ to his, both collapsing into each other.


----------



## Disturbia (Oct 21, 2010)

Another flawless issue.

I really like how Morrison's writing is directed to adults who want to think; not middle schoolers.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 21, 2010)

This issue has everything on why I love comic books and why I read comic books.  Absolutely fantastic.


----------



## Slice (Oct 21, 2010)

I still dont like the Irving style but god damn that last page just oozes atmosphere!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 21, 2010)

You can study Grant Morrison's works in school. He's up there with Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman in terms of academic application for comics.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Oct 21, 2010)

Irving is alright in my book.....yeah I said it. That last page.......was so incredible. I forgive him for the absolute headache his art has been. It was WORTH it!


----------



## Parallax (Oct 22, 2010)

Having Irving as the artist of this arc was the PERFECT choice.  Who honestly could have pulled off the atmosphere that was needed for this story besides him?


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 22, 2010)

Forget that last page, the first 6 pages of Batman and Robin 13 were never topped, they were just incredible. Irving has a few quirks, sometimes his style causes a weird panel here or there, but overall his work is extremely good.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 22, 2010)

The last page. SO GOOD.


----------



## Rod (Oct 23, 2010)

btw credit where it's due, RH: Jim G was a fine piece props Beechen(omg).


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 23, 2010)

Its artwork really helped. Was like reading noir, almost.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 24, 2010)

Just took a look at the schedule

BATMAN AND ROBIN #16 (Comic - On Sale November 03, 2010)
BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #6 (OF 6) (Comic - On Sale November 10, 2010)
BATMAN: THE RETURN (Comic - On Sale November 17, 2010)
BATMAN, INC. #1 (Comic - On Sale November 17, 2010)


please let this not be fucked up


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 24, 2010)

November is a win month for Batman.

And if indeed Cassandra Cain makes a proper and, more importantly, respectable return, I will die from Bat-happiness.


----------



## Rod (Oct 24, 2010)

The most interesting aspect of Bat Inc is that differently from the usual when in 95% of the times you know the whatever plan set by good will succeed and then we already expect and simply go on enjoying the ride until that inevitable outcome, in this particular case there's no clear picture, the future is pretty unclear here what is kinda exciting as this time it's likely destined to fail.

Obviously we all know tho, eventually one way or another, regardless of the time it takes, Bruce will be back to be the unique Batman etc etc...

So let's just again enjoy the ride, but now from an inverted angle/logic. Promising, should I say.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 25, 2010)

Scary Movie Guy said:


> November is a win month for Batman.
> 
> And if indeed Cassandra Cain makes a proper and, more importantly, respectable return, I will die from Bat-happiness.



It should have been october.  I'm not holding my breath till all this shit is finally released.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 25, 2010)

> *What's next for you? Do you foresee more Batman work in the near future or more work with Grant?
> *
> Grant has reserved a small part of my soul already to do something called "Multiversity," which sounds all rather excellent and right up my alley. I'm on the roster for some other Grant Batman stuff later apparently, but 'til that comes around I'm still doing the will-draw-for-food thing. I have one gig lined up for next year which is a *censored* series which is really cool cos I was a huge fan of the original, and possibly doing a *name omitted* series which could be exciting because I have no idea who the character is, but before any of that happens I'll be returning to and completing the fondly missed "Gutsville" as of 21st October 2010. I expect that will take me about 3 months, so I am stocking up on lentils and cheap soya protein for the winter months.



Irving is coming back to the Batman with INC


----------



## Castiel (Oct 25, 2010)

Frazer Interview (what Tal quoted)


Finch Interview




Parallax said:


> It should have been october.  I'm not holding my breath till all this shit is finally released.



Well Finch is definitely done he's working on his own series, Garbett is a really fast artist, Paquette is already working on issue #3 of Inc.  Stewart can be quick and he is at least mostly done with it since he has inked pages on his blog.

At this point its all on Mike Marts.


edit: 

Ok so there's a partial fill-in for B&R #16, which means it will definitely be on time.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 25, 2010)

Why the fuck is there a fill in for #16.  I swear its not like Stewarts art is some insanely detailed spectacle that requires him months(which he had) to do a damn issue.

and all of you can say what you want about Finch at least he finishes his damn issues on time.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 25, 2010)

Parallax said:


> Why the fuck is there a fill in for #16.




Safe to say this is taking a big chunk of time, I mean this is his first writing gig on top of doing art.



> and all of you can say what you want about Finch at least he finishes his damn issues on time.



ahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahhahahahahahahhahahaha

Ultimatum


----------



## Parallax (Oct 25, 2010)

I completely forgot about that, can you blame me?

and he should be finishing this shit up not work on some sub par comic because suddenly every comic book artist thinks they can write and he wants to join that club.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

Tomasi/Gleason Batman & Robin pushed back to give them some more breathing room.

Last minute fill in arc will be slapped together by Paul Cornell and Scott McDaniel.




More than a little disappointed since been looking forward to this run, but hey even a fucking last minute story by Cornell should be pretty good.  Not a big fan of McDaniel though...


----------



## Parallax (Oct 26, 2010)

breathing room?  This was announced months ago what breathing room do they need?


----------



## Parallax (Oct 26, 2010)

fuck delays I swear


----------



## mow (Oct 26, 2010)

seems like in the past 2 months i didn't read comics, I haven't missed much


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

Parallax said:


> breathing room?  This was announced months ago what breathing room do they need?



Brightest Day is a bi weekly, Tomasi does most the writing and Gleason does like 1/3 of the art in that.

Brightest Day is halfway through.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 26, 2010)

I haven't heard any delays for Batwoman...yet. 



Gojira said:


> Brightest Day is a bi weekly, *Tomasi does most the writing* and Gleason does like 1/3 of the art in that.
> 
> Brightest Day is halfway through.



This could explain lots.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

illmatic said:


> I haven't heard any delays for Batwoman...yet.



It's been several months since the last JHW3 issue of 'tec, he's been working on it the whole time.  and he has a hand picked artist for every other arc.



> This could explain lots.



Hey, Tomasi is more consistent than Johns 

But from what I gather he does scripting


----------



## Rod (Oct 26, 2010)

Considering the number of books this verse already has and foreseeing the increase of that number announced for next year, there'll be always someone disappointed.

What is like sorta Captain Obvious to say at this point.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2010)

Ugh, Tomasi does most of the writing? From the guy who previously wrote the best Green Lantern book on the stands (Yea, I thought GLC > GL) its kind of depressing.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

Scripting, Johns is kind of busy with the whole movies and stuff.  But they both come up with the plot and sequences


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2010)

Ah, guess that makes it slightly better.

Honestly, judging from the plot of it, I thought Johns was 70% responsible for that.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

That's probably about right 


 I'm speculating on that aspect but Tomasi definitely scripts.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 26, 2010)

I don't give a darn if he's busy or not these delays are borderline parody at this point.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 26, 2010)

delays make me unreasonably angry


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

so...

I checked out the Bat-Manga book from the library.  It's a hoot.


----------



## Rod (Oct 26, 2010)

> Looks like the Caped Crusader’s return to Gotham City is postponed for a bit yet. DC has rescheduled Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #6 yet again, originally scheduled to ship Oct. 27, then Nov. 10 to now ship Dec. 15.
> 
> Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne's Gran Finale chapter as originally planned to ship this month increases to it's third the number of delays the series has passed by.







K jking.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2010)

No. Fucking. Way.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

Parallax Suicide Watch


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

I mentioned this last page, its what directly led to the Brightest Day discussion you took part in 


Also while I don't _hate_ McDaniel (certainly not his biggest fan), it seems a little jarring the line up for the series is

Quitely, Stewart, Irving, _McDaniel_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2010)

Balls.

Well, I think McDaniel is a decent artist, but I think he's a great artist for Dick Grayson. Sometimes artists tend to under emphasize Dick's acrobatic abilities in fights, instead just relying on jumpy martial arts.

If you think back to Chuck Dixon's initial run on Nightwing, you know that will most certainly not be a problem.


----------



## Rod (Oct 26, 2010)

For some reason, everytime I read/hear "Chuck Dixon" I think that would be a cool name for a Gotham cop.



O.o lol.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 26, 2010)

I guess in that respect it makes sense, dude probably drew Dick Grayson more than any other artist out there


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 26, 2010)

I recently re read the first run of him and Dixon, and it makes me pretty excited for this.

Just the detail McDaniel goes into when it comes to simple stuff like roof running is ridiculous. The way he showed jump by jump how Dick got from point A on a page to point B on a page was awesome.

Giving him two of the most acrobatic characters in the bat-verse (including THE most acrobatic character in all of the DCU) is a great idea.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 26, 2010)

What the fuck December really?  Jesus christ...fuck it I'm done with this bullshit I'll pick this up in six months hopefully it'll be out by then.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 26, 2010)

Seriously these delays can eat a dick.

How do you go from from October to December


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 27, 2010)

December?

What a wait. Damn it.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 27, 2010)

Maybe they don't want to spoil the ending to Time Masters: The Vanishing Point


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 27, 2010)

K cornell writing Batman and Robin is actually pretty cool. But another delay to Return? how is that even possible, what the fuck is going on?


----------



## Rod (Oct 27, 2010)

> > Looks like the Caped Crusader?s return to Gotham City is postponed for a bit yet. DC has rescheduled Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #6 yet again, originally scheduled to ship Oct. 27, then Nov. 10 to now ship Dec. 15.
> >
> > Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne's Gran Finale chapter as originally planned to ship this month increases to it's third the number of delays the series has passed by.
> 
> ...


----------



## Slice (Oct 27, 2010)

there goes my plan to read all of the remaining Bat issues as some kind of birthday present next month


----------



## Parallax (Oct 27, 2010)

I don't get how it's been delayed this much.  Morrison's been finished with the scripts for a long time from the sounds of it.  Finch has finished his Return issue.  Slow overrated Stewart is getting back up to finish his shit while he writes Assassin's Creed.  And allegedly Garbett is a fast artist.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 28, 2010)

Gojira said:


> so...
> 
> I checked out the Bat-Manga book from the library.  It's a hoot.



The Lord Death Man saga was a fun read


----------



## Castiel (Oct 28, 2010)

/reads new Azrael

ok ...


----------



## Taleran (Oct 28, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I don't get how it's been delayed this much.  Morrison's been finished with the scripts for a long time from the sounds of it.  Finch has finished his Return issue.  Slow overrated Stewart is getting back up to finish his shit while he writes Assassin's Creed.  And allegedly Garbett is a fast artist.



Its only 2 more weeks now the Troll in the Batman Costume was there for a reason



> » View Larger Image
> 
> Written by GRANT MORRISON • Art by LEE GARBETT & WALDEN WONG• Cover by ANDY KUBERT• 1:25 Variant cover by LEE GARBETT
> Grant Morrison and BATGIRL artist Lee Garbett deliver the final chapter of this time-spanning epic! With Bruce Wayne just steps away from returning to present day Gotham City, the timestream might have a few more surprises in store for The Dark Knight! Do not miss this issue, as it paves the way for the shocking future era of Batman!
> ...



I finally remember where I know Lee Garbett from. He was the guy who drew Last Rites.


----------



## Rod (Oct 28, 2010)

I hope he keeps the Terminator vibe from #5 , when I saw last page I remember it was like started hearing the Terminator theme and thinking "holy shit it's T-9001" (yes over 9000).


----------



## Castiel (Oct 28, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I finally remember where I know Lee Garbett from. He was the guy who drew Last Rites.



Yeah that's him, I'm guessing Morrison has taken a shine to this guy and wants to build up his notoriety.

He's not the greatest artist out there but he does a solid job, not just in Last Rites but in Batgirl and Tomasi Outsiders


----------



## Taleran (Oct 28, 2010)

It also makes thematic sense considering what Both Last Rites and RoBW #6 will be about.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 28, 2010)

Heh that didn't occur to me, in a way garbett deals with the start and finish of his journey.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 29, 2010)

which is what I'm sure Morrison wanted.  If it still keeps to the November release date then shit will be off the hook


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Oct 29, 2010)

Parallax said:


> which is what I'm sure Morrison wanted.  If it still keeps to the November release date then shit will be off the hook



Quoted for Truth.


----------



## Rod (Oct 29, 2010)

Parallax said:


> (...)and all of you can say what you want about Finch at least he finishes his damn issues on time.




Uh-oh.





> Notice, no issue #3 of David Finch’s Dark Knight in the January solicitations from DC Comics, despite unveiling the cover a month ago? I hear the boy wonder is a little behind on the title. To the extent that he hasn’t finished drawing issue 1 yet, due out on November the 24th. The NYCC preview of which was supposed to be in colour – but it wasn’t ready. And he also still hasn’t written the script to issue 2, solicited for December. Hence the January #3 solicitation no-show. Expect some date changes.
> 
> Why the delays? Well, he’s working with Grant Morrison on another time intensive Batbook.



*ps/edit: *#1 has now been delayed until December 8. *


----------



## Castiel (Oct 29, 2010)

Well that's the book he's personally writing, don't think anyone here is as invested in that book as some of the others


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 29, 2010)

as long as his book with morrison comes out on time, i dont care.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 29, 2010)

Well if's even working on his own book then Return #1 is sure to be in the can.

What I'm interested is what could Morrison be asking him to do that he'd put his big old writing project (which is why he left Marvel) on hold.


----------



## Rod (Oct 29, 2010)

Simply by being Morrison in a Bat title would of be enough at this point.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 29, 2010)

Scott Snyder interview, I'm definitely picking his Detective run up when it comes out.



Rod said:


> Simply by being Morrison in a Bat title would of be enough at this point.



No but I mean specifically what, Irving is also talking stuff but I thought Paquette was the long term artist for Inc, or if he's going Batman & Robin and switching out for every arc


----------



## Rod (Oct 30, 2010)

Gojira said:


> (...)No but I mean specifically what, Irving is also talking stuff but I thought Paquette was the long term artist for Inc, or if he's going Batman & Robin and switching out for every arc




Interestingly, they just released an interview with Finch (just in time lol) that might shed some light in this topic, what's to expect, timeframe, etc... Regarding all these upcoming works with him in the Batverse.

I've to say Dark Knight sounds interesting, targeted to the more realistic oriented audience it seems, besides that i'm surprised it'll actually be an in continuity work and in present times, that's alot of advantages (and reponsability) right there, prolly part of freedom DC has offered to seduce Finch as exclusive I'd suspect. Anyways:



> You can find Running Man Here Jeff
> 
> *Finch:* Well, that's kind of my aesthetic, you know? This book, for me, is like a dream come true. I've always had a pretty clear idea of what I wanted from a Batman book. *While Batman Inc. will be more of the upbeat superhero, my book will, comparatively speaking, be going in a darker, angrier direction.*
> 
> I've read a lot online about how people think that, ever since Dark Knight Returns, Batman has been to dark and gritty. But I don't agree. That's what made me love Batman. *I think a Batman that is too fun and happy and has a little sidekick dog and all those types of things doesn't speak to me at all. This is the character that speaks to me: The dark, angry, vengeful, almost hateful character. That's what I love. *And that's what I'm doing. I want to push that as far as editorial will let me push it.



oh wow. This is gonna be fun.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 30, 2010)

Gojira said:


> Scott Snyder interview, I'm definitely picking his Detective run up when it comes out.
> 
> 
> 
> No but I mean specifically what, Irving is also talking stuff but I thought Paquette was the long term artist for Inc, or if he's going Batman & Robin and switching out for every arc



Paquette is planned to be long term for one year.  He never said anything about year two and Morrison has stated he's got a huge year long story he's gonna do after the first year of Inc.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 30, 2010)

He (Morrison) also said He was going to make Damian Wayne into one of DC comics great superheroes.


----------



## Rod (Oct 30, 2010)

Reading again RoBW I was just thinking about something...

Bruce just set new standards.


I mean, he's been pimpin since the dawn of times. That's a whole new lvl.


----------



## Taleran (Oct 30, 2010)

B&R 16 has 3 artists and kind of has the Art Jam feel that the end of The Invisbles had.

Stewart 

and
Irving.


----------



## Castiel (Oct 30, 2010)

I like it, has a very Geof Darrows feel


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 30, 2010)

Yea, not a fan of "Grim, gritty, hateful" Batman. Probably going to pass on Dark Knight.


----------



## Rod (Oct 30, 2010)

Personally, I dont think he intends exactly to do sort of nuts Batman like Asbar, I'd believe the book even the name choosen is to portray it in a bit more Nolan' esque approach, at least that's what I expect...


PS: Just as a matter of curiosity, and coincidence, that description Finch uses is in fact pretty similar to the one Bale often describes as his perception of Batman, the "hateful character, or character full of or consumed by hate" mainly mentioned during BB.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 30, 2010)

Nolan' esque approach is what I first thought when I heard the title was  "The Dark Knight"


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 30, 2010)

Rod said:


> PS: Just as a matter of curiosity, and coincidence, that description Finch uses is in fact pretty similar to the one Bale often describes as his perception of Batman, the "hateful character, or character full of or consumed by hate" mainly mentioned during BB.



Which I think works for a rookie Batman, where he decides to channel that hate into something good.

It feels awkward seeing the whole vengeful hateful Batman at this stage, at least, it does to me.


----------



## Rod (Oct 30, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Which I think works for a rookie Batman, where he decides to channel that hate into something good.
> 
> It feels awkward seeing the whole vengeful hateful Batman at this stage, at least, it does to me.



I'd like to add a bit what sounds more of a general overview, however, I think it's more like a strategy of marketing but overall it's one way or another quite a nice act of Dc, I mean from perspective we will have various takes (different lvls of realism from most hardcore to metascience/supernatural, gritty, etc..) for multiple audiences of the fandom, as if they were trying to achieve or target everyone with these various books, having this so incredibly ecletic menu to pick up choices is, in my humble opinion, a match-point Dc has just committed.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Oct 31, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Which I think works for a rookie Batman, where he decides to channel that hate into something good.
> 
> It feels awkward seeing the whole vengeful hateful Batman at this stage, at least, it does to me.



I think it'll be cool because you'll be able to see the evolution he took from solo-vengeance driven vigilante, to the mentor figure general in a war against crime that he becomes. 

A full circle is never perfectly smooth and always has bumps and divets along the way. It took a long time for Bruce to go from the hate-filled man who was channelling it into something good, to the man who is now GRATEFUL that his life had been spared and that he had loving parents who gave their lives so willingly to protect him. And to get to the point where he could feel that way to four boys and a girl. Feel so strongly for them, that he gave them a home, a cause, and a name.


----------



## Parallax (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm kinda over angry hateful Batman, after Morrison there really seems to be no need for it and if he goes back to that it'll feel like a major step back.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 1, 2010)

Rod said:


> I'd like to add a bit what sounds more of a general overview, however, I think it's more like a strategy of marketing but overall it's one way or another quite a nice act of Dc, I mean from perspective we will have various takes (different lvls of realism from most hardcore to metascience/supernatural, gritty, etc..) for multiple audiences of the fandom, as if they were trying to achieve or target everyone with these various books, having this so incredibly ecletic menu to pick up choices is, in my humble opinion, a match-point Dc has just committed.



Yea, its definitely a good move from a business perspective. Hell, there are people who refuse to even look at a Morrison book because he _ruined_ Batman.

This book seems like it'll definitely be up their alley. Personally, I just have little interest in seeing what is imo, a step back development wise for batman.

EDIT: That being said, im REALLY looking forward to Snyder/Jock 'Tec Comics.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 1, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman & Robin #16 preview_


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 1, 2010)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 1, 2010)

Oh lawd.

The links on "attractive young female etc." were the icing on the cake.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 2, 2010)

Dark Knight, Dark City.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 2, 2010)

- IGN
_Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson aren't the only heroes in Gotham_.

Batwoman #0 will provide new readers with a Batwoman primer and seasoned fans with a taste of Kate's new status quo.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 2, 2010)

The art will be worth it for this one.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Hurt Darkseid connection revealed at last, from the CBR review of B&R #16_ 



First of all, in the opening scene, set in 1765, we see the origin of Dr. Hurt -- this twisted Thomas Wayne from the past, who has been popping up in “Return of Bruce Wayne” -- as he feasts on the flesh of a bat and his experiments with the occult grant him the longevity to screw up Batman’s life in the 21st century. If you haven’t been reading the “Return of Bruce Wayne” series, and haven’t connected the dots about Darkseid’s role in Batman’s troubles, this issue of “Batman and Robin” helps to explain some things. The “Barbatos” demon summoned by ye olde Thomas Wayne (aka Dr. Hurt, aka El Penitente) is an avatar of Darkseid who must have fallen back through time as he died at the end of “Final Crisis.”


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2010)

must... not... click...


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2010)

damn it taleran


----------



## Castiel (Nov 3, 2010)

Also to continue Alex Segura's habit of spoiling all books before stores open on the official DC blog


*Spoiler*: __ 










Interesting feint Bruce.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 3, 2010)

Bruce you magnificent Bastard....


----------



## Rod (Nov 3, 2010)

This will be so much of a polarizer.


True to Grant's style.


----------



## Penance (Nov 3, 2010)

Jesus Christ, Bruce.  

I mean, Jesus Christ: Bruce...


----------



## Parallax (Nov 3, 2010)

Great way to end Morrison's storyline and launch off into Inc.


----------



## Rod (Nov 3, 2010)

This could work out, but seems like Morrison is just reworking his New X-Men run a bit here. Remember there he outed Professor Xavier as a mutant and founder of the X-men, then proceeded to set up the X-Corporation around the world.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2010)

I remember the x-corporation being mentioned once or twice and not ever being the actual focus of any storyline. I think it'll be a bit different


----------



## Rod (Nov 3, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I remember the x-corporation being mentioned once or twice and not ever being the actual focus of any storyline. I think it'll be a bit different



Yeah I mean more like pointing to another of Morrison's characteristics of work that is the re-use of a lot of images and themes throughout them. The end of days in Final Crisis is depicted very similar to the end of days in the "Planet X" arc, with the red skies, tyrant about to enslave / kill humanity, etc.

I think the "franchise" idea works better for the X-Men since they were originally conceived as a group and/or team, while Batman was originally conceived as a single vigilante. Plus mutants are an actual "race" while Batman is just a concept that Bruce created. Either way I think it's a cool idea for both franchises. Morrison's X-run is amazing, imo one of the best reinvitions of comics franchises in these modern times.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

Simply amazing. I know people are going to bitch about Bruce Wayne walking the line a bit, as far as the secret goes, but it was incredible.

Fantastic ending. Loved the story, loved the art.

That Bruce/Dick/Damian fight scene was in a word, incredible.

My only complaint would be Frazer Irving. I love his action scenes, I love his bad guy scenes, I love his gotham scenes, but he's not who I would have chosen for the last few pages. His "normal" facial expressions just seem off.


----------



## Rod (Nov 3, 2010)

Notice the page 17 (or 16 i don't remember which one exactly) seems to be a homage to one of the most iconical images of Bruce in all it's Batman history:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Neal Adams:


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 3, 2010)




----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 3, 2010)

In other news, Talia Al Ghul banged Jason Todd. Lulz.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 3, 2010)

what?

where is this from


and the art in this issue was great, except for Cameron's art which I thought was the weakest


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2010)

red hood lost days 6


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2010)

Hurt's fall had me killing myself laughing.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 3, 2010)

Man the haters are really displeased with this issue


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2010)

Insert: Morrison work here = Hates displeased with it LOTS.


----------



## Z (Nov 3, 2010)

Joker was simply incredible this issue. Man this guy is awesome.

The banana 


*Spoiler*: __ 



 I wonder if he really will fight crime?


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2010)

HOLY
FUCKING
SHIT



> Friday, November 26th, 2010 at 7:00pm (ET) - "Knights of Tomorrow!"
> A glimpse into the future reveals Dick Grayson has assumed the Batman mantle after the Caped Crusader retired and fathered a son, Damian, with Catwoman. Despite his parents' wishes, Damian does not want to follow their legacy, but when Joker returns, he may have no choice!



Brave and the Bold you complete me.


----------



## Rod (Nov 3, 2010)

Z said:


> Joker was simply incredible this issue. Man this guy is awesome.
> 
> The banana
> 
> ...




^


*Spoiler*: __ 



 No, supposedly Bruce arrested Joker again.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2010)

Taleran said:


> HOLY
> FUCKING
> SHIT
> 
> ...



but damian will be so creepy in that art style


----------



## Z (Nov 3, 2010)

I know lol it was a joke.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 3, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> but damian will be so creepy in that art style



They have done kids on the show before

Then there is this



> Additionally, the new Batman: The Brave and The Bold episode "Darkseid Descending!" is scheduled to air on on Friday, December 3rd, 2010. Please note schedule details are subject to change without notice.


----------



## Rod (Nov 3, 2010)

I kind of think this night with Jason that Talia had may be not as innocent plot inflatuation as it seems.



I'd suspect this particular occasion might bite some folks in the ass soon/in the future.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 3, 2010)

Taleran said:


> They have done kids on the show before


I saw their robin.

I think these guys must have fallen in love with Morrison after he defended their show. I mean that is a _lot _of references to Morrison's Batman run.


----------



## Rod (Nov 3, 2010)

It's a shame indeed that season 3 is the last, and also that it's only about half as the previous in number of episodes.


That being said, having the possibility to study all these different takes on Batman across different medias is just plain perfect to me.

Hopefully, the next oriented show regarding the Dark Knight will also be as pleasurable.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 4, 2010)

Cornell B&R interview


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 4, 2010)

So what exactly is the hyper-adapter?

I have an idea, but im still kinda fuzzy about it.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm unnaturally excited for Snyder/JOCK 'tec


----------



## Castiel (Nov 4, 2010)

Sims goes over the history of the chamber Hurt put Bruce in


also another round of uzutations


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 4, 2010)

I just read an orgasm.

Hail to Morrison.


----------



## Z (Nov 4, 2010)

I hope we see more Joker action in Inc.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 4, 2010)

I love how Hurt has gone from being this big, almost Darkseidian, unstoppable force of evil, to a complete joke who falls on his ass like a 3rd grader.

Also how Bruce's first course of action after the danger is settled, is to punch Joker's face in

edit: Z's sig


----------



## Z (Nov 4, 2010)

Castiel said:


> I love how Hurt has gone from being this big, almost Darkseidian, unstoppable force of evil, to a complete joke who falls on his ass like a 3rd grader.
> 
> Also how Bruce's first course of action after the danger is settled, is to punch Joker's face in
> 
> edit: Z's sig



Well that's what happens when you go against the Joker. Alexander Luthor was such a universal threat and all and how did he die? Got shot by the Joker. 

That was badass of Bruce.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 4, 2010)

I sure love reading those little annotations


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 4, 2010)

And now the only piece missing is the last issue of return of bruce wayne. After that we'll be all set to dive into the inevitable awesomeness that is Inc.

I think once RoBW concludes, im going to go back re read all of Grant's batwork up till now.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm gonna wait till The Return, then I'm gonna read everything in the Morrison Batman canon, including FC


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 4, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I'm gonna wait till The Return, then I'm gonna read everything in the Morrison Batman canon, including FC



Well I figure if I start once RoBW comes out, I should have enough to read until The Return comes out 

And yea, im gonna read everything as well. Batman (including 700-702), FC, RoBW, B&R, and The Return.

As far as the trades go for grant's batman run, it'd be:

Batman and Son
Res. of Ra's
The Black Glove
RIP
Time and the batman

right?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 4, 2010)

RoRaG takes place is in the middle of The Black Glove tpb


----------



## Parallax (Nov 4, 2010)

yeah I'm just gonna skip that part


----------



## Rod (Nov 4, 2010)

I'd take since the first Morrison issue, this one where it starts with Joker killing Batman and all.


Remember that the story isn't wraped yet, there's still alot to work yet including 666.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 4, 2010)

You can cut the Res of Ra's right out and not miss anything, it is very nice


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 4, 2010)

Taleran said:


> You can cut the Res of Ra's right out and not miss anything, it is very nice



Yea, I intend to.

So was that arc editorially mandated?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 4, 2010)

yes, it was


----------



## Taleran (Nov 4, 2010)

I love how I can use 2 panels to both show the entire character of Simon Hurt and his progression over these last 4 issues.



and


----------



## Castiel (Nov 4, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea, I intend to.
> 
> So was that arc editorially mandated?


Yes, also I think Morrison just wanted to take part in a straight up crossover with multiple writers once in his career.  You can tell he was halfway into it from his issues.

If you must read them, go for his two issues instead of the whole tpb.  They're kind of surprisingly self contained and he wrote the best part of the whole crossover (Batman having a swordfight with Ra's dad)


Taleran said:


> I love how I can use 2 panels to both show the entire character of Simon Hurt and his progression over these last 4 issues.
> 
> 
> 
> and



ha 

edit:
"Damn it feels good to be a gangster"
that made it all funnier for me tal


----------



## Taleran (Nov 4, 2010)

Its "Damn it felt good to be a gangster" in the passive tense.


----------



## Z (Nov 4, 2010)

I hope he stays dead


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 4, 2010)

Me too.

Mainly because I really can't see anybody but Morrison using him without it being horrible.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 4, 2010)

He'll be back, but I don't think anytime soon.  Definitely when Morrison has long left the Bat universe.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 4, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Its "Damn it felt good to be a gangster" in the passive tense.



oh, I didn't take time to separate the words from the url.

Still works though


----------



## Rod (Nov 5, 2010)

It's interesting that also this final arc in B&R wasn't intended, initially;


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 5, 2010)

Rod said:


> It's interesting that also this final arc in B&R wasn't intended, initially;



Wait, what? So what was the original ending?


----------



## Rod (Nov 5, 2010)

Unfortunately, we can only speculate at this point, mate. Perhaps it was always the same and he just extended it a bit or it was indeed different, may the trade shed some light in this aspect so I hope.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 5, 2010)

Well he did say he intended B&R to be divided by "seasons", with "Must Die" being the season finale, with Season 2 coming afterwards.

Then he got the idea for Inc.


----------



## Rod (Nov 5, 2010)

This is why I very much appreciate when they release the novels/scripted version only, drafts and etc..

Besides Grant reformulating the idea two times (it was going to end in 12th then 13th then 16th, but this is also a thing that happen often so nothing to be that paranoid with) it's to notice as most of you folks know Inc. has already two years planned, what is certainly a lot, especially this second one being _"a rollercoster through hell"_, against _"some sort of super-villain"_.

However, I'm more inclined to believe this suggests the happenings of #666 finally being touched upon further, what would happen either way, rather than Hurt. (Altough I'd say Morrison conducted his finale this way so if anyone ever decides to use again in the future it won't be necessary to come up with some sort of crazy retcon for it to happen. But as of the moment I don't think GM intends to use Simon again directly.) 

Finally, if I had to predict what he meant, would say this villain will go on killing all those Batmen worldwide.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 5, 2010)

Aah, I see. Well, I'm glad he was still able to turn the story into the epic that it was.

My only disappointment is that the conflict with Hurt ended up being a bit... mundane. But the fact that it concludes on the Joker's primal gag? Fantastic.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2010)

He extended his run some, I think originally to wait for quitely? But you can see he had most of the arcs, including this one, mapped out from the start. 



It's hard to imagine the series working without the arc Morrison added in though. The one with Talia, Slade, the Wayne Manor search and the Joker reveal.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> Aah, I see. Well, I'm glad he was still able to turn the story into the epic that it was.
> 
> My only disappointment is that the conflict with Hurt ended up being a bit... mundane. But the fact that it concludes on the Joker's primal gag? Fantastic.



RIP as farce, Hurt not Bruce is the Clown at Midnight there is only ever one joke and it is always him

(also on that whole idea, Who better to contrast Tony Daniel's completely middle line superhero art than Irving and then a finale that is an art jam all over the place)


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 5, 2010)

Taleran said:


> RIP as farce, Hurt not Bruce is the Clown at Midnight there is only ever one joke and it is always him
> 
> (also on that whole idea, Who better to contrast Tony Daniel's completely middle line superhero art than Irving and then a finale that is an art jam all over the place)



I think my being awake for two straight days is affecting my brain because I have no idea what your first sentence means...


----------



## Rod (Nov 5, 2010)

It's just the symbols, Grant's "farce", Joker trumps Deuce, etc...


Btw this brief Joker speech about Damian is pretty foreshadowing for upcoming 666 deal I think.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 5, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> I think my being awake for two straight days is affecting my brain because I have no idea what your first sentence means...



Batman & Robin Must Die was a Farce on Batman RIP there are scenes in both that happen almost as opposites to each other.


----------



## Rod (Nov 5, 2010)

Also not many ppl noticed but finally Grant released the meaning ofr this "RIP": Rot in Purgatory.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 5, 2010)

Ah, yeah. Thanks for explaining. I picked up some of that.

You know what I really loved about this finale? Damian's reaction to Bruce's return. He was completely worried about what would happen with Batman and Robin. Morrison has really brought Damian a long way from his first appearance.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 5, 2010)

Oh yeah definitely, in Batman & Son, I liked him pretty much on novelty only.  But now he's a legitimate character.

I also like how he's begun to be used by other writers.  I think I like his usage by Dini almost as much as by Morrison.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 5, 2010)

who did the quitely style art btw. It almost made me think it was the real thing on the page with Gordon.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 5, 2010)

I think the quitelyesque art was Burhman.



Castiel said:


> I also like how he's begun to be used by other writers.  I think I like his usage by Dini almost as much as by Morrison.


Same here, I absolutely loved the Zsasz arc in Streets featuring Damian and Colin.

Speaking of which, I really hope we see Colin again sometime soon.


----------



## Rod (Nov 5, 2010)

Oh Frankly, an unique thing I felt could've been better handled was the impact of Bruce's return it seemed too much of a "oh hai lol" in my humble opinion.

Also, now wait for RoBW but we notice how the delay complicated a bit the mood, I have to say myself feel kinda just like waiting more just so it'll fill the gaps and confirm some of the things implied in B&R 16 but thats just about it mostly, a bit of an excitment killer yes, unfortunately.

If they needed to release late I'd do it both editions next week honestly at same day, or delay B&R 16 now that the damage has been done anyway...


----------



## Disturbia (Nov 5, 2010)




----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 5, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Well I figure if I start once RoBW comes out, I should have enough to read until The Return comes out
> 
> And yea, im gonna read everything as well. Batman (including 700-702), FC, RoBW, B&R, and The Return.
> 
> ...



I imagine in the long, long run, Morrison's Batman will be Deluxe'd and RIP Absolute'd.



Taleran said:


> I love how I can use 2 panels to both show the entire character of Simon Hurt and his progression over these last 4 issues.
> 
> 
> 
> and




So much to love. . .


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2010)

Scary Movie Guy said:


> I imagine in the long, long run, Morrison's Batman will be Deluxe'd and RIP Absolute'd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



RIP isn't long enough to be Absolute'd but I do hope they do that with his Batman and Robin run


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 6, 2010)

nguyen's talents already put to good use i see.


----------



## Rod (Nov 6, 2010)

^

I'm calling it now. SMG will be a lil annoyed at the ignoration of someone in this recap.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 6, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> nguyen's talents already put to good use i see.



That was pretty great. I was cracking up the whole time.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 6, 2010)

"Then Bruce Died"

oh god that panel got the biggest laugh out of me


----------



## Parallax (Nov 6, 2010)

That was pretty great


----------



## Rod (Nov 7, 2010)

Just read Road Home: Ra's Al Ghul.

Bruce has a golden glowing lasso and snares two rogue police officers in it. But this can't be the real WW lasso. The explanation?

*"The filament cord is lined with tactile sensors, - turning it into a polygraph machine."*


!!!!



Win.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2010)

btw I thought I read Morrison still had more planned for Dr Hurt in inc. I could be remembering wrong.


----------



## Rod (Nov 7, 2010)

I only remember about some supposed  _"roller coaster thru hell"_ and that in the end of inc. Bruce will face _ "some sort of super-villain"_.

Because of the _"hell"_ and _"super-villain"_ mentions some assume it's Hurt, tho I'd say GM didn't put extensive thought into these words, frankly.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2010)

Well I know I remember the second year of Batman Inc is supposed to be one long story type thing that'll be the big conclusion to his run. If I had to guess I'd say Hurt will come back because he's been the overarching villain of the entire run.

Locked in a coffin, even with joker gas, isn't a lot more conclusive than death by helicopter explosion. And if the arc was a farce of RIP, batman did break out of his coffin.


----------



## Rod (Nov 7, 2010)

Didn't Hurt also break his skull? I thought that was the ironic main point, the gran villain stupidly killed himself without any glory by breaking his skull in the floor due a simple gag from Joker (and that the smile in the face was more to portray the clown's signature altough the also deadly effects from the gas) or at least intended in the image but I might be seeing too much, perhaps.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 7, 2010)

Petes has a point, we probably wont find out for awhile though.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 7, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> And if the arc was a farce of RIP, batman did break out of his coffin.



Well then the Joke on that is that Hurt ain't getting out.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2010)

maybe. 

Whats your opinion on the flashback they did in B+R 13, with Thomas Wayne living and the other 2 getting shot, I guess that's just another farce of the origin story?

I gotta admit I kinda wish Hurt were still more directly connected to Bruce's dad. When I first read that issue I thought maybe he could somehow have taken the place of Thomas Wayne in the past and more literally corrupt history


----------



## Rod (Nov 7, 2010)

Just got a copy, would like to add on that specific _"polemic" _of Red hood: Lost Days #6:

I don't know, I see too much shipper logic affecting some people, and for the record, same it would be if was Catwoman (Slam/Sam/Helena stuff come to mind) or any other love interest, sort of like folks getting frustrated at seeing the possibility of whatever they support happening getting more distant, unlikely or something.

That being said, I don't think the sex itself was particulary wrong, however, if consider the grand scheme of things or the big picture I'd agree, due the emotional correlation portrayed in parts as motherly figure I'd say it's twisted (add to that the whole history with Bruce aforementioned so well by ppl in topic) altough it's kind of what should expect from a villainous role she plays that has a more "realistic" approach such as Batverse paints even tho it does not mean it's necessarily a compulsory thing.

Anyways, forgetting the whole and isolating it all to the act only, the chapter itself, I confess wasn't bothered too much by that happening per se, actually let's be honest the majority of the folks are sexually active before 18 and this was (or at least seemed) consensual what eliminates rape, so yeah... To me that wasn't such a problem more than the fact of when we consider Bruce in the equation, that intercourse happening is still out of the usual yes or strange however not precisely "wrong" I'd classify, afterall alot of ppl have one or other stories to tell about Milfs (I beg your pardon for this all of sudden joke but doesn't make it less true ).


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 7, 2010)

Were people actually upset by that or something?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2010)

Hey petes got a new avy


----------



## neodragzero (Nov 8, 2010)

Hey. Just read the last two issues of Batman and Robin. I'm totally in looking forward to mode for next week's first issue.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 8, 2010)

It's not next week, it's the week after.

Return #6 is this week


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Im really looking forward to this week. Mainly for Return 6, but I also can't wait for Red Robin. Anxiously optimistic about Cass's supposed guest spot.

And I know nobody cares about Batgirl, but the preview for issue 15 looks really fun.




"Sorry about your parents." "JUSTICE."
"No, YOU shut up. I'm an ACROBAT"

Jason and Tim's panels were also lulz.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

I reread Return 5 to refresh myself... and only just now realized that the girl, Marsha, is probably the same girl Mayhew had killed. You know, from the black glove arc before RIP.


----------



## Rod (Nov 8, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Were people actually upset by that or something?



Some yes Petes, tbh quite vocal because of the sex panels, but for the most these ppl seemed shippers trying to pose as if they were unbiased.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

They objected to 2 adults kissing, then jason waking up the next morning wondering where Talia went? k.


----------



## Rod (Nov 8, 2010)

The most hilarious are some trying to deduct Jason's age for statuory rape. 




hei from lee garbett blog:


*Spoiler*: _Back to the future_


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

what would that prove, that Talia's an evil child abusing bitch? old news

but jason's gotta be at least 2 years older than tim so there's no way he's under 18.


----------



## Rod (Nov 8, 2010)

Well shipper logic at it's finest as I said. 


Btw, looks like terminator Bruce will put the fingers at faces of everyone at JLA. :rofl


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

I love that page of the JLA being like "OH FUCK ITS TERMINATOR BATMAN GET HIM!" with Tim telling them to slow their roll.

On another note, what non-morrison books do you guys read? I know this thread is like 99% Morrison discussion, so I was just wondering.

Myself, I read Red Robin, Batgirl, and Streets.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2010)

I don't read anything but Morrison Batman


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Is that because you don't think they're good, or because you feel they dont matter since they aren't part of the "primary" bat-story?

Or is it just budget issues?

Again, just curious. I'm definitely of the opinion that Morrison's bat books are the best bat-books, but I still like a few of the other books for different reasons.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

When B+R debuted, I gave almost everything a try. Sirens always sucked, I lost interest in Batman pretty quick, lost interest in streets when Dini stopped regularly writing, lost interest in Batgirl after the arc with Damian in it, lost interest in Detective soon after Rucka left... I'm only reading Morrison and Red Robin as of now. 

But now DC's shaking it all up again so I'm gonna give some of the new stuff a shot. Batwoman, Detective Comics, and nonmorrison Batman and Robin specifically. And I'll check out batgirl I guess, I'm a sucker for Nguyen's art.


----------



## Penance (Nov 8, 2010)

Batgirl 15 has good cover art and is lulzy...seems good to me...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> When B+R debuted, I gave almost everything a try. Sirens always sucked, I lost interest in Batman pretty quick, lost interest in streets when Dini stopped regularly writing, lost interest in Batgirl after the arc with Damian in it, lost interest in Detective soon after Rucka left... I'm only reading Morrison and Red Robin as of now.



Admittedly, when I say "I buy streets" I mean "I buy Dini written issues of streets".

I'd recommend giving batgirl another shot, since its definitely found its footing as of late. If you're looking for a funny and light book Batgirl's a good choice. The road home issue was actually pretty good.

And I think there's another Damian/Steph arc coming up. Guaranteed laughs.



> But now DC's shaking it all up again so I'm gonna give some of the new stuff a shot. Batwoman, Detective Comics, and nonmorrison Batman and Robin specifically. And I'll check out batgirl I guess, I'm a sucker for Nguyen's art.


Oh yea, Cornell/McDaniel (then Tomasi/Gleason) B & R looks solid, so I'll definitely be getting that. Batwoman's a definite since its JH Williams.

And Detective Comics? I think that will be the best book of the shake up. Jock's art is INCREDIBLE and Snyder seems to have some really sweet ideas for the title.


----------



## Penance (Nov 8, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I'm only reading Morrison and Red Robin as of now...



Same here...


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Is that because you don't think they're good, or because you feel they dont matter since they aren't part of the "primary" bat-story?
> 
> Or is it just budget issues?
> 
> Again, just curious. I'm definitely of the opinion that Morrison's bat books are the best bat-books, but I still like a few of the other books for different reasons.



I was reading Tony Daniel Batman for awhile but I lost interest.  It does have to do with budget but also because they don't really progress anywhere.  The thing I really love about Morrison's run is the pace and the usage of natural progression in the story where the others are fun story but it's back to the status quo after the arc.  And that's all well and good but I don't really feel like reading those stories.

I might check out the titles again in the near future what with new creative teams on board


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

I could still see myself dropping any of those other than Batman and Robin though, depending on how the writing is. The art's drawing me in but the writing has to keep me there.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I was reading Tony Daniel Batman for awhile but I lost interest.  It does have to do with budget but also because they don't really progress anywhere.  The thing I really love about Morrison's run is the pace and the usage of natural progression in the story where the others are fun story but it's back to the status quo after the arc.  And that's all well and good but I don't really feel like reading those stories.
> 
> I might check out the titles again in the near future what with new creative teams on board



It basically just reads like filler, right?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Fair enough.

I don't like Tony's Batman because he writes Dick like Bruce.

As for the new titles, I feel like i'll definitely like Detective Comics and B & R will at least be decent. Batwoman will have amazing art, and hopefully the writing measures up.

Glad that people are still reading Red Robin. It's decent, but its definitely in need of an upswing.


----------



## Rod (Nov 8, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I love that page of the JLA being like "OH FUCK ITS TERMINATOR BATMAN GET HIM!" with Tim telling them to slow their roll.
> 
> On another note, what non-morrison books do you guys read? I know this thread is like 99% Morrison discussion, so I was just wondering.
> 
> Myself, I read Red Robin, Batgirl, and Streets.




Oh, I think from the main books I pick everything, from the batverse I'd say bar Batman Confidential (but am planning to give it a try again since it made to #50 interestingly, some folks say me it's a humble book not trying to be pretentious etc and has a consistent work).

From the upcoming new non-GM books I'm willing at least for The Dark Knight, and the other more general ones (Batman, Tec, etc...).




Parallax said:


> I was reading Tony Daniel Batman for awhile but I lost interest.  It does have to do with budget but also because they don't really progress anywhere.  The thing I really love about Morrison's run is the pace and the usage of natural progression in the story where the others are fun story but it's back to the status quo after the arc.  And that's all well and good but I don't really feel like reading those stories.
> 
> I might check out the titles again in the near future what with new creative teams on board



Unfortunately that's one of the effects of having that kind of chief writer I'd say, only GM can chage statuo-quo definitely (or at least he needs to approve the modifications), others seem to be able only to do it temporarily (unless GM asks or confirms stuff) .


----------



## Castiel (Nov 8, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> On another note, what non-morrison books do you guys read? I know this thread is like 99% Morrison discussion, so I was just wondering.



I read Streets, Azrael and Red Robin definitely.  I enjoy all 3, though Azrael is starting to lose me with its insanity.

Batgirl and Daniel Batman when I get around to it.  Mostly for budget reasons I read them on the rack.

'tec I'm waiting for the Snyder/JOCK run to begin.


----------



## Rod (Nov 8, 2010)

Also from Lee Garbett's blog:



> Sunday, 3 October 2010
> Batman and Robin Halloween Special.
> *While waiting on script for Return of Bruce Wayne* I got the chance to have a go at this fun little story featuring Dick Grayson - Batman and one of my favorite characters - Damian Wayne.



Oh I see what u did thar. It was all Morrison's fault.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Castiel said:


> I read Streets, Azrael and Red Robin definitely.  I enjoy all 3, though Azrael is starting to lose me with its insanity.
> 
> Batgirl and Daniel Batman when I get around to it.  Mostly for budget reasons I read them on the rack.
> 
> 'tec I'm waiting for the Snyder/JOCK run to begin.



I need to check out Azrael. It went from Nicieza to Hine right?

Red Robin is probably my favorite non-morrison batbook, although that might be due to character bias. Its a good series, but this next arc needs to step things up a bit. Im glad its not set in gotham, since its nice to see newer settings/locales. Also, I really hope Nicieza comes through with Cass. I'm still in a "its not real till I actually see it on the page" kind of mood.

Yea, most of the time I read batgirl on the rack.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Glad that people are still reading Red Robin. It's decent, but its definitely in need of an upswing.



If only they'd get rid of the awful red robin costume, then it'd be on track


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Meh, it bugged me at first, but I'm okay with it now. The modifications at the end of Yost's run have made it a lot better, imo.

The cape could use some scallops though.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

the crossed belts on the chest just look so stupid, I cant get over it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Yea, I guess I can see that. I'd like for the bandoleers to look a little more functional if they're going to stay. 

I've kind of learned to live with it, since I know it won't be changing anytime soon.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2010)

I will for sure check out Batwoman if only for JH Williams III art.  Detective and B&R I may start picking up.  I really wanna love Daniel's Batman since it seems like Daniel really loves the character and wants to do some good work out of it but I'll wait and see


----------



## Castiel (Nov 8, 2010)

The thing is that Daniel is not a writer, though on the bright side he is slowly getting the hang of it.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

Which makes me apprehensive of Batwoman.


----------



## Rod (Nov 8, 2010)

Interestingly that also David Finch is gonna try the same path.


Besides I still wish to see some Psycho-Noir JH Williams III / Morrison Batman book some day.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Rod said:


> Interestingly that also David Finch is gonna try the same path.



TDK is actually the book I'm least excited about, mainly because of the characterization of Batman he's going with, but to each his own.

I feel like TDK will be the book for the anti-morrison "Bruce is the only Batman and he should be a vengeful loner" crowd.



> Besides I still wish to see some Psycho-Noir JH Williams III / Morrison Batman book some day.



Yea, im surprised they've only done one arc together.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

supposedly finch's book will have a supernatural slant, so I guess it might not be totally in that camp. But I dont really like Finch's art much and he's brand new to writing, right? so yeah not too excited either.


----------



## Rod (Nov 8, 2010)

What I find interesting about this Finch/ Morrison stuff is that it was Grant who wanted to bring back the yellow oval not David's redesign idea.




Petes12 said:


> supposedly finch's book will have a supernatural slant, so I guess it might not be totally in that camp. But I dont really like Finch's art much and he's brand new to writing, right? so yeah not too excited either.



Something involving Etrigan afairc, that alone might suggest bring Zee to the table if also connects to the supposed childhood friend.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> (...) I feel like TDK will be the book for the anti-morrison "Bruce is the only Batman and he should be a vengeful loner" crowd.



Apart from the vengeful, that's exactly how I expect Inc. to end, I mean for some new old reason Bruce will be the only Batman, etc...



> Yea, im surprised they've only done one arc together.



Yea I keep this wishful thinking plus with photorealistic colorists it'd be a pretty win book.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Rod said:


> Apart from the vengeful, that's exactly how I expect Inc. to end, I mean for some new old reason Bruce will be the only Batman, etc...



Yea, but thats in about 2 years.

Right now there's a bunch of people who flat out won't buy Dick Grayson as Batman books, and they won't buy books where Bruce is going up against Time, Evil Gods, and "The Devil".

I think Dark Knight will be more for those people.


----------



## Rod (Nov 8, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _ The Return of Bruce Wayne #6 (Bestseller Finale) Preview_


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2010)

Good preview

Normally I would be hesitant to pick up Batwoman but JH is such a fantastic artist and he hardly does work that I GOT to pick it up.  Daniel is getting better and I hope that at some point down the line his title becomes worth picking up since it seems he's in it for the long haul.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 8, 2010)

Aww yea, can't wait till wednesday.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 8, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Which makes me apprehensive of Batwoman.



JHW3 is a co-writer, he has a seasoned helper (Blackman, the guy behind the Force Unleashed games).

and still this isn't JHW3's first time writing, he co-wrote the Chase mini in the 90s which was actually pretty good.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 8, 2010)

Batwoman is also being co-writing by W. Haden Blackman who worked as a writer for teh Star Wars universe games.

A notable one was "Star Wars: The Force Unleashed" that was awarded a video game writing award by Writers Guild of America.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 8, 2010)

I believe I said all of that.


also is the story of the Force Unleashed games any good?  I've never played them, I just know those commercials with Vader pulling out his lightsaber in the snowy field are badass


----------



## Parallax (Nov 8, 2010)

fun but short.  Especially the second one.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 8, 2010)

Castiel said:


> I believe I said all of that.


I now see you hit the post button a couple seconds earlier then me.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2010)

Castiel said:


> I believe I said all of that.
> 
> 
> also is the story of the Force Unleashed games any good?  I've never played them, I just know those commercials with Vader pulling out his lightsaber in the snowy field are badass



I hear the story of the first one is good but the second one is bad


----------



## Taleran (Nov 8, 2010)

They are games where they are fun as long as the mechanics remain interesting and not a moment after that.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 8, 2010)

Taleran said:


> They are games where they are fun as long as the mechanics remain interesting and not a moment after that.



I'm aware of that, but when a writer you've never heard of is attached to a book you're curious about, the natural course of action is to ask if anything that person has done was good in terms of writing, thus I ask if the plot of the Force Unleashed games were any good, it's the only measuring stick I have.


----------



## Rod (Nov 9, 2010)

The plot is half ok, Galen Marek itself is the biggest problem of the game (all the rest surrounding is fine), it is a character that makes no sense whatsoever when you put in context and remember the whole of Star Wars, mainly towards the end it becomes flat out stupid and borderline hilarious what's up with him. I'd say being a close SW fan you will prolly have an issue with, if you're not so much of you will not  bother much, however, will still easily be able to identify where the issue resides.

If you wanna play for the cool tho...


----------



## Rod (Nov 9, 2010)

Ok getting thread back to rail.

One thing I keep wondering is if Hurt has a son perhaps with that woman from ROBW. I mean, if Hurt's a mirror to Thomas and everything is a mirror to each other, a duality of good and evil per se, noticing the process of the Waynes dying not exactly by but influenced on Simon ignited in young Bruce, the good. what happens now in the other side, now that Hurt "died" not exactly by but influenced by Bruce? Does that means igniting... the evil? and if yes in who? The other side of Batman? Perhaps there's also a son of the devil as there is a son of god.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 9, 2010)

I like the little things in that preview like how Nichols created the technology for Vanishing Point.




Didn't notice the fucking dominoes.

81818181818181818181818181818181
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Parallax (Nov 9, 2010)

I noticed it the second time I read it, great little easter egg from Morrison.


----------



## Rod (Nov 9, 2010)

Bsides the Damian one, seems Brave and the Bold decided to go really bold this last season:



> Batman and Captain Marvel try to free Gotham from the grip of the Psycho-Pirate. The Mad Hatter and the Mirror Master team up to drag Batman and the Flash through the looking glass. *And then, there’s our Valentine’s Day spectacular, with Batman and Wonder Woman — married!*


----------



## Taleran (Nov 10, 2010)

Those are from the comic.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2010)

again I'm hyping Snyder 'tec, but I'm loving the art for the Gordon back-up


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Those are from the comic.



Oh I see. Mistake of mine. Thanks for pointing, Tal!



Castiel said:


> again I'm hyping Snyder 'tec, but I'm loving the art for the Gordon back-up



Oh this cover just reminded Gordon has a son too.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 10, 2010)

Oh man that art looks sweet, I think I may be looking forward to this back up too.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2010)

Rod said:


> Oh I see. Mistake of mine. Thanks for pointing, Tal!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh this cover just reminded Gordon has a son too.



oh yeah.  whatever happened to him?  I know his mom took him back to Chicago, but damn I wonder what he must be like now.  He should at least be Dick's age.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

Paging Comic Book Guy.

Guess who's back?

Preview for Red Robin 17, featuring Cassandra motherfucking Cain.


----------



## Penance (Nov 10, 2010)

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

Castiel said:


> oh yeah.  whatever happened to him?  I know his mom took him back to Chicago, but damn I wonder what he must be like now.  He should at least be Dick's age.



Im not sure exactly, but from what I remember Gordon's ex-wife moved with the boy to another city, he is at max 1 - 2 yr older than Damian by now I think. 

They could be bff in the future who knows.


(It's interesting also that Nolan decided to use James Jr. instead of Babs in the movie , but prolly he didn't want association with Batgirl.)


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2010)

He was a little boy when Bruce started out, he should be a bit older than that.


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

It's because of the Grant storyline I mean im taking what he said as reference.

It sort of creates some confusion yes, when taking one or other reference, Morrison says Bruce started at 19 yrs as Batman instead of 25 for example.

James Jr., according to Morrison's discussed 15 year time line for Batman (which fits in Dick Grayson, Jason Todd and Tim's career lengths nicely actually, and has an internal consistency), would be 14 or 15 (Damian I believe might have completed 12 or 13 this year), having been at least several months if not a year old during his moments in Year One. Also, James Jr. was established as 10 years old in his only other on-panel appearance (as opposed to mention or reference) when Sarah Essen and Gordon got married in Legends of the Dark Knight Annual #2 in 1992 when he was kidnapped by Flass and rescued again by Batman, his dad, and his then-nearly-step mother.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2010)

Morrison has a timeline for Batman like that? That's pretty surprising actually. I thought he didn't care too much about the floating timeline and all that.


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

Yeah that's an impression I had from Morrison initially but I think it was also because he wasn't so much of a writer that worked in ongoing books so we went under that impression, remember Final Crisis he also depicted a more organizated timeline for ppl, here considering the nature of the story he is telling also this again being a continuity ongoing (go back in time, revisit part of Batman mythos review this review that, work with alot of things from past), some kind of "clear picture" was a bit necessary I think.

Also it's prolly good for newcomers to have some reference etc...


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2010)

I know this is comics but that's too much of a stretch for me.

Gordon adopted as a little girl Barbara after his wife left him, so Barbara and Jim Jr. should be around the same age.


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

Castiel said:


> I know this is comics but that's too much of a stretch for me.
> 
> Gordon adopted as a little girl Barbara after his wife left him, so Barbara and Jim Jr. should be around the same age.



Wait waittt waittt 

Barbara was adopted while Gordon was still married but he got her custody in the divorce. When she went to live with the Gordons she was at beginning of puberty already (like 12 or something) While baby James was at max 1 year old in Batman: Year One. It's like Damian and Dick diference window but a bit less (with Babs younger than Dick, and Jim Jr. older than Damian).



>.> Trying to figure continuity is like trying to connect Zelda games together.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 10, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Paging Comic Book Guy.
> 
> Guess who's back?
> 
> Preview for Red Robin 17, featuring Cassandra motherfucking Cain.


Scandal Savage is that you? heh...


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2010)

Is there somewhere I can see this timeline


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

A sec Petes, I'll look for it for ya...


Edit: ah here , found it!




> THERE YOU GO.
> 
> (...)
> *Newsarama:* Grant, let’s talk Batman. You’re currently doing the “Joe Chill in Hell” storyline, and you really seem to be deconstructing Batman, what he’s gone through in the past on a very philosophical level. You’ve spoken in the past about how you saw where Batman was, mentally, when you started working on the series. Where is this particular storyline going to take him?
> ...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

illmatic said:


> Scandal Savage is that you? heh...



Scandal can hate all she wants, she just mad Cass looks twice as good in it. 

So anyways, why are you guys talking about Morrison's timeline? I figure there are much more pressing Morrison matters to attend to since RoBW came out today.

*SPOILER ALERT*

It's awesome 

Really is the culmination of all of Grant's efforts to make Batman more human. On a personal note, I can't WAIT to see the reaction to "Batman's first truth"

The Morrison haters are going to bust a tit.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2010)

thanks rod. sounds interesting. 

And what's not to love for those 'traditionalists', it has Batman beating up the entire justice league of losers


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> thanks rod. sounds interesting.
> 
> And what's not to love for those 'traditionalists', it has Batman beating up the entire justice league of losers



The panel where the justice league was like "GET EM" and Tim was making the totally futile "Wait a sec!" gesture was pretty funny. As was his response to the magnitude of the threat Bats was facing, which was basically "Joker, Killer Croc, Bane? Fine! Darkseid? That's just not fair"

Also, props to Tim for locking himself in a room with terminatorbats.

Anyways, Bruce outsmarted the hyper adapter, and came through with a little help from his friends, which was awesome. 

Finally, while I've known it all along, it  brought a smile to my face to see the first truth of batman stated aloud.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2010)

I wonder why Morrison always has tim say 'hardcore'. its kinda weird.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

Hmm, I dont have the issue on hand currently, where did he say that?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2010)

said he was getting hardcore deja vu or something like that


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> thanks rod. sounds interesting.



Hei np! 



> And what's not to love for those 'traditionalists', it has Batman beating up the entire justice league of losers



Hah yeah, that has been one of Morrison themes that actually Bruce can beat anyone, some folks are still stubborn abt it but oh well...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

Rod said:


> Hah yeah, that has been one of Morrison themes that actually Bruce can beat anyone, some folks are still stubborn abt it but oh well...



Well, it wasn't really Bruce who was beating up on the justice league, it was the hyperadapter.


----------



## Arishem (Nov 10, 2010)

I just caught up with Batman & Robin, and it's reignited my love for comics after a long dry spell. God bless Morrison.


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> The panel where the justice league was like "GET EM" and Tim was making the totally futile "Wait a sec!" gesture was pretty funny. As was his response to the magnitude of the threat Bats was facing, which was basically "Joker, Killer Croc, Bane? Fine! Darkseid? That's just not fair"
> 
> Also, props to Tim for locking himself in a room with terminatorbats.
> 
> ...




hah. This has so much potential. 


"THE TRUTHS OF BATMAN" (meme inc.)


Anyways, I loved how Tim flat out left any reasoning behind and went desperate at some point. Also, just how Bruce is the epitome of badass in Grant's hands.

Notice, WW got alot of time in this, I'd suspect this is the way GM found to answer the complaints from Final Crisis regarding the take he had in the character (at the time he stated indeed might have exaggerated but would try find a way to portray her better at some point, seems ROBW was the case). 

I expect emotional to come with Batman: The Return.

Bruce dying reminded me of Lost. Perhaps some more panels milking the ressurection try would have created more impact but alas...

Finally it's over and we can move on to new horizons. He beat the evil.

If I would define GM run till now in a unique phrase to sum it up I'd say what Joker said:

_"That's just how Batman is. Batman thinks of everything"._


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Well, it wasn't really Bruce who was beating up on the justice league, it was the hyperadapter.



Wait a sec, I thought at that moment it was just memoryless Bruce acting instinctively as he did not remember anyone (What was planned inbeforehand by Wayne as we saw otherwise i.e had he, from the get go, kept these memories he would be infected instantly). Until up to the point where they started trying to push for his memories to return with lasso then there's when the Hyper Adapter took opportunity to take control.

But here's the thing, the Hyper Adapter is just an idea a concept afterall, it would be just an evil Bruce at the end not another person, just would mean that the other side has won, that it corrupted him. That's why it's said that a man defeated the evil itself. Bruce defeated the abstract, it's like he got a defeat over an incarnate ideology.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

Rod said:


> Wait a sec, I thought at that moment it was just memoryless Bruce acting instinctively as he did not remember anyone (What was planned by Wayne otherwise i.e had he kept these memories he would be infected). Until up to the point where they started trying to push for his memories to return with lasso then there's when the Hyper Adapter took opportunity to take control.



I'm pretty sure the Hyper Adapter was in control up until the moment where Tim talked to Bruce and WW put on the lasso. At that point, Bruce and the Hyper Adapter were both fighting for control.



> But here's the thing, the Hyper Adapter is just an idea a concept afterall, it would be just an evil Bruce at the end not another person, just would mean that the other side has won, that it corrupted him. That's why it's said that a man defeated the evil itself. Bruce defeated the abstract, it's like he got a defeat over an ideology.



It's an idea given form. I mean, we see it in issues 1 (although we didn't know it at the time) and 2.


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

^

That's why it gives this feat far more depth than anything I've seen, it's just an idea afterall. It's like a man who has proven to be, against all odds, really incorruptible. We then go back to Darkseid's _"Ultimate human, the definition of humanity."_


----------



## Rod (Nov 10, 2010)

This just occurred to me...

I wonder if "Hurt" is indeed dead, Hyper-Adapter could simply detach itself and go pursue some other guy.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2010)

so WW, what'd you think of Morrison finally giving Tim more than 2 pages?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2010)

also slightly too bad The Web got cancelled, I'd have gotten some laughs at The Web going to Batman and accusing him of ripping off his Incorporated idea


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 10, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Paging Comic Book Guy.
> 
> Guess who's back?
> 
> Preview for Red Robin 17, featuring Cassandra motherfucking Cain.





I've bought and read the issue.

And yes. There was almost a smile on my face.

When she gets back in full, then you'll see one of those toothy smiles.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

Castiel said:


> so WW, what'd you think of Morrison finally giving Tim more than 2 pages?



Obviously, I read those pages and I *JIZZED. IN. MY PANTS.*

But seriously, I liked how Tim held his ground, even when Wonder Woman told him to GTFO. Overall I just liked how he didn't seem out of place even among the justice league. He never gave up on Bruce and it paid off.  



Comic Book Guy said:


> I've bought and read the issue.
> 
> And yes. There was almost a smile on my face.
> 
> When she gets back in full, then you'll see one of those toothy smiles.



Awesome, right? And, I like that a writer has FINALLY found a way to highlight one character (in this case Tim) without being detrimental to the other. I've always liked these two characters together but it seems like whenever they were, one got played up to the detriment to the other.

It totally makes sense for Tim to be able to sneak up on Cass by throwing his voice.

But overall, I just loved seeing Cass kicking ass and speaking little. Also, the outfit she has on rocks. It's not scary, but she looks really good.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 10, 2010)

God RoBW was awesome. In a totally defining character Last Rites kind of way. Also I liked how it completely kills the gritty loner Batman right into the dust.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 10, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Awesome, right? And, I like that a writer has FINALLY found a way to highlight one character (in this case Tim) without being detrimental to the other. I've always liked these two characters together but it seems like whenever they were, one got played up to the detriment to the other.
> 
> It totally makes sense for Tim to be able to sneak up on Cass by throwing his voice.
> 
> But overall, I just loved seeing Cass kicking ass and speaking little. Also, the outfit she has on rocks. It's not scary, but she looks really good.



Indeed.

I just wonder if she'll have a role at all in the current Batman Incorporated direction. . .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

Taleran said:


> God RoBW was awesome. In a totally defining character Last Rites kind of way. Also I liked how it completely kills the gritty loner Batman right into the dust.



I know right? It was about as subtle as a thermonuclear detonation, and it was awesome.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 10, 2010)

"Alfred." He said not long ago. "If anyone asks for an obituary tell them Batman's big secret was the classic whodunit. Only it's not about who killed Batman but who kept him alive all these years."


----------



## Castiel (Nov 10, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Obviously, I read those pages and I *JIZZED. IN. MY PANTS.*
> 
> But seriously, I liked how Tim held his ground, even when Wonder Woman told him to GTFO. Overall I just liked how he didn't seem out of place even among the justice league. He never gave up on Bruce and it paid off.


Yeah definitely, if I got the timeline right, Tim IS Bruce's longest running partner (feel free to chime in Rod).  Dick/Bruce is straight up father-son/brotherhood stuff, but I Tim was the Benjamin Bratt to his Jerry Orbach.

edit:




Taleran said:


> God RoBW was awesome. In a totally defining character Last Rites kind of way. Also I liked how it completely kills the gritty loner Batman right into the dust.



Indeed, Batman would never have succeeded without help.

He's stronger for having Robins, he's stronger for having Alfred, for having the GCPD, for being a member of the JLA.

Also liked how he unabashedly calls the JLA his _friends_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 10, 2010)

Castiel said:


> Yeah definitely, if I got the timeline right, Tim IS Bruce's longest running partner (feel free to chime in Rod).  Dick/Bruce is straight up father-son/brotherhood stuff, but I Tim was the Benjamin Bratt to his Jerry Orbach.



Yea, when I think of a majority of Tim's robin years, I really do think of him as a partner rather than a sidekick. 

Some of my favorite Bruce/Tim scenes are when they first get to a crime scene and immediately start going back and forth analyzing and theorizing.





> Indeed, Batman would never have succeeded without help.
> 
> He's stronger for having Robins, he's stronger for having Alfred, for having the GCPD, for being a member of the JLA.
> 
> Also liked how he unabashedly calls the JLA his _friends_



Exactly, and the best part, imo, is that it isn't an opinion, it's fact. Its not like Grant is creating this new side to the character, he's just highlighting a simple truth.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 11, 2010)

Castiel said:


> so WW, what'd you think of Morrison finally giving Tim more than 2 pages?



Morrison's done stuff with him before. He was sort of important in RIP. 

It's interesting how Bruce Batman and Red Robin's costumes almost look like they match in the same way Dick's and Damian's do.

I'm kinda hoping red robin was setting up for an issue of a cass/bruce team up in Inc.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 11, 2010)

Jesus Nut Cracking Christ. I take back what I said about being disapointed with the somewhat mundane end to Hurt and Bruce's conflict. In lieu of RoBW #6, its completely appropriate. This was absolutely fantastic.



Comic Book Guy said:


> Indeed.
> 
> I just wonder if she'll have a role at all in the current Batman Incorporated direction. . .



This issue had me thinking that maybe Cass would be Bruce's Hong Kong representative.

EDIT: Is it it me, or does the Hyper Adapter run through all of time twice? The first run was the the tentacle monster, and whatever it becomes later on, and survives all the way to the end of time at Vanishing Point. Where it merges with Bruce's Archivist suit, and then goes back in time, and then gets shunted even further back in time by the Time Sphere. And then hops forward in time as Barbatos, where it currently resides in Hurt.

So. Two things stand out to me. Will the first-run Hyper Adapter show up again? (Maybe not, since it can't really be defeated, only stalled. It has to survive to Vanishing Point.) Is the second-run Hyper Adapter restricted to Hurt or can it detach itself and find another Host now that Hurt is stuck in a coffin? I mean, its not a physical thing after all, but a thought-weapon.

EDIT 2: Argh, I just realized the Hyper-Adapter is running backwards through time after it gets shunted by the Time Sphere.

EDIT 3: God damn... all other comics this week feel like crap after reading RoBW #6...


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 11, 2010)

*sees nothing but discusssion about Morrison's Batman shit...too lazy to actually try and figure it out*

I smell toast


----------



## Slice (Nov 11, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> *sees nothing but discusssion *about Morrison's Batman shit*...too lazy to actually try and figure it out*
> 
> I smell toast






Chaos Ghost said:


> *Morrison*





Chaos Ghost said:


> *shit*



My friend these two words do not belong in the same sentence. 



Except when talking about The Filth, and even then you are _not_ talking about quality.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 11, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Morrison's done stuff with him before. He was sort of important in RIP.



Tim was actually pretty fucking awesome in RIP, if only because he held off the bad guys till the club of heroes came in.



> It's interesting how Bruce Batman and Red Robin's costumes almost look like they match in the same way Dick's and Damian's do.



Yea, that was cool. It's also kind of funny that this was the first issue to debut Bruce's new costume.

Gotta love delays.



> I'm kinda hoping red robin was setting up for an issue of a cass/bruce team up in Inc.



If Cass isn't Bruce's Hong Kong rep i'm going to be more than annoyed.


----------



## Rod (Nov 11, 2010)

^


----------



## Arishem (Nov 11, 2010)

I think the new costume hits the sweet spot between practicality and theatricality.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 11, 2010)

Inc interview


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 11, 2010)

interesting that inc doesn't really continue the story that's been going on this whole time. which is fine since it had a near perfect conclusion, but it makes me wonder what sort of bad guy he has planned for inc then.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 11, 2010)

Slice said:


> My friend these two words do not belong in the same sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> Except when talking about The Filth, and even then you are _not_ talking about quality.



I cuss like a sailor Slice, so shit is the acceptable replacement for stuff or anything. I personally don't think Morrison's work is shit, even though I don't care for it, its just not for me.

Kinda like Harry Potter.


----------



## Slice (Nov 11, 2010)

My "Batman vs. Robin" Hardcover arrived today. 

Re reading this beauty this evening.


----------



## Rod (Nov 11, 2010)




----------



## Taleran (Nov 11, 2010)

Love the variant cover.

Also


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2010)

allkpop sure do love them some john park

I like this idea, I like it a lot.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 12, 2010)




----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> interesting that inc doesn't really continue the story that's been going on this whole time. which is fine since it had a near perfect conclusion, but it makes me wonder what sort of bad guy he has planned for inc then.



yeah. release Return as is and snip off the last couple pages from B&R #16, and Grant could have walked away to the fanfare of fans.


----------



## Rod (Nov 12, 2010)

Castiel said:


> yeah. release Return as is and snip off the last couple pages from B&R #16, and Grant could have walked away to the fanfare of fans.



While up to now Grant's run in Batbooks could of been considered as a Kirby channel, from this point onwards considering GM says we will cut over the top sci-fi, centralization in the legend, myth aspects or exaggeration in what's supernatural, for a while in favor of a more down to earth eccentric book for analysis of the_"system"_ in it's various aspects that society is related(especially reminding this includes us readers) a more _"politic"_ book per se. It would seem at least to me, this time, sort of an Alan Moore approach incoming.


What should I humbly amend, tends to bring an excellent prospect of subtext to study.


----------



## Rod (Nov 12, 2010)

Hei folks, a cool tidbit for those interested in Catwoman:



			
				Gail Simone said:
			
		

> I am writing Selina in SOMETHING very soon, I think!


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 12, 2010)

> BATMAN BEYOND #2
> Written by ADAM BEECHEN
> Art by RYAN BENJAMIN & JOHN STANISCI
> Cover by DUSTIN NGUYEN
> ...




  WHEN WILL THE HURTING STOP?


----------



## Rod (Nov 12, 2010)

Partial list:



> BATWOMAN #1
> Written by J.H. WILLIAMS III & W. HADEN BLACKMAN
> Art and cover by J.H. WILLIAMS III
> 1:10 Variant cover by AMY REEDER
> ...




Interestingly, David's looking more supernatural than GM in this initial look(kind of expected considering what Morrison has been saying about Inc. tendencies to realism).


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2010)

Knight and Squire has the best solicit ever


----------



## illmatic (Nov 12, 2010)

Rod said:


> Hei folks, a cool tidbit for those interested in Catwoman:



She going to join the Birds of Prey?


----------



## Rod (Nov 12, 2010)

Oh, since Kilo is pretty interested in upcoming Tec, here's some more info mate:




The quote above is from Scott Snyder (as you noticed), who says 3, 1, 3, 1, so it is being presented that way. I'm sure there will be variation occasionally, but that is how he described it.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 12, 2010)

> BATWOMAN #1
> Written by J.H. WILLIAMS III & W. HADEN BLACKMAN
> Art and cover by J.H. WILLIAMS III
> 1:10 Variant cover by AMY REEDER
> ...


 
I will mark this day on my calender


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm interested to see what writing/story chops does J.H. Williams III have. . .


----------



## Rod (Nov 12, 2010)

illmatic said:


> She going to join the Birds of Prey?



Unfortunately, she was that cryptic (as usual) about it!

Perhaps might mean she's taking over Gotham City Sirens (that means Gail would be writing like "The 3 Good girls team" and "3 Bad girls team", those 2 clubs of Gotham women sort of mirroring each other even if accidentaly, what is funny.) also can be what you pointed or a simple participation/cameo etc... In a minor possibility a Catwoman title or something major as that.

Also notice, interestingly, GCS wasn't referenced in the Febuary solicitations list, at least for now.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> WHEN WILL THE HURTING STOP?


I'm actually half impressed they remembered Kai-ro existed





Petes12 said:


> Knight and Squire has the best solicit ever


agreed, I wonder if Cornell writes them himself




illmatic said:


> I will mark this day on my calender


probably my favorite JHW3 Batwoman cover


Comic Book Guy said:


> I'm interested to see what writing/story chops does J.H. Williams III have. . .



Read the Chase mini


----------



## Rod (Nov 12, 2010)

Also, notice the lack of Azrael and Confidential too (at least for now). >.>"


----------



## Castiel (Nov 12, 2010)

Rod said:


> Partial list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I'm definitely at least going to read it on the rack since Etrigan is involved.


Also Europa is looking good to me


----------



## Rod (Nov 12, 2010)

^ Oh yeah Europa too seems interesting gonna have to check this out! Also I'm kinda wishing Zatanna (because of Etrigan and other childhood firend that she also might know as Zee's one of Bruce's friends from that time as you know) may be a surprise in TDK in later editions.


Hey CBG! That one is for you:



> >> 2) Should I hope for more Cassandra Cain by Fabian Nicieza or is the ball in someone else court now? <<





			
				fabiannicieza said:
			
		

> I don't know exactly what everyone else is doing for the next several months, but I plan to have Cass back in RR again around late spring/s


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2010)

funny, return of bruce wayne 5 didnt really click with me till i reread it today- I realized that the detective who uncovered all the bad stuff the waynes were supposedly up to in RIP, then disappeared, was Bruce. And that Hurt did actually pay Chill to assassinate the Waynes.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 12, 2010)

oh yeah and someone explain the nichols engine thing to me, i didnt get that


----------



## Rod (Nov 12, 2010)

Sure, mate.

The Nichols engine is simply the Time box's controls Bruce got at the end of #5.

However, since universe history already happened for the archivists (up to their own point of course) when Bruce disappeared after contact with Nichols engine it actually became a mistery because from the pov of the archivists it was that, he simply disappeared from the whole history, all of it, all of the archives.

Until Nichols engine brought him to the Vanishing Point at the end of time, so that's how the mistery was solved, that's why they didn't have archives of him in this specific passage until then.  

*Archivist:* _"while you are the solution to one of histories great mysteries. the first human deep time probe vanished on its maiden voyage. over several thousand millennia we searched for the Nichols engine in every era- a hole-- a gap in the archive"_

*Bruce:* _"Until it brought me here." _



Got it, mate?

If anything I can try explain better in any case.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 13, 2010)

Late spring, eh?

We'll see.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 13, 2010)

oh right, i'd forgotten all about the time machine he'd grabbed at the end of 5.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 13, 2010)

God ROBW 6 was fucking amazing.  I can't wait for whats next.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 13, 2010)

Catman+Teen Titans in Red Robin 20. Fuck yes.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 13, 2010)

Cats eat birds.


----------



## Rod (Nov 14, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> (...)Yea, that was cool. It's also kind of funny that this was the first issue to debut Bruce's new costume.(...)




Oh, Ivan Reis just debuted it last week, it looked pretty cool in his depiction. Sorry, I can't scan the pages myself so I'll try find them uploaded somewhere else. I apologize if any inconvenience.

Edit: ah got it, here it is, mate.



*Spoiler*: _ Batman BD #13 by Ivan Reis_


----------



## Z (Nov 14, 2010)

Fuck yeah White Lantern Batman


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 14, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Cats eat birds.



Yea, in a straight on encounter Catman would stomp. Only way Tim stands a chance is if he goes all Prep Jesus on his ass.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 14, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Cats eat birds.



you channeling BtAS catwoman?


----------



## Rod (Nov 15, 2010)

Z said:


> Fuck yeah White Lantern Batman



Speaking of which, gave me some Battledome ideas.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 15, 2010)

You know after thinking about it ROBW 6 only makes Finch's new series even more unattractive since Morrison in my view has pretty much destroyed the image of solo brooding Batman.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 15, 2010)

next batman cartoon after brave and the bold will be cgi... weird. i dont like cgi


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 15, 2010)

Parallax said:


> You know after thinking about it ROBW 6 only makes Finch's new series even more unattractive since Morrison in my view has pretty much destroyed the image of solo brooding Batman.



But to people who don't like Morrison's Batman, ROBW 6 made Finch's series that much more attractive. So it works both ways.


----------



## Penance (Nov 15, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> next batman cartoon after brave and the bold will be cgi... weird. i dont like cgi



When was this announced?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 15, 2010)

mentioned here 

sounds like even I'll have to watch the episode they do superman in, on brave and the bold. They're doing superdickery superman.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 15, 2010)

Their was a rumor of a CGI Batman series a couple months ago


*Spoiler*: __ 





> Word is that the next Batman animated series may be a CGI series titled "Batman Infinity".
> 
> The series is inspired by recent storylines and deals with Batman/Bruce Wayne being blasted by Darkseid's Omega Beam while on a JLA mission and being lost in Hypertime.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rod (Nov 15, 2010)

I have an impression I've seen something like that before.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 15, 2010)

sounds dumb.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 15, 2010)

Why the fuck are they doing this with CGI? Are they giving up already. Do people actually like CGI cartoons??? That Jimmy Neutron show was the only one that was any good.  MTV Spider-Man, Tak, Reboot, Beast Wars, Madhouse Iron Man and any other CGI cartoons are all terrible IMO. Okay, they probably arent that badly written but if I cant stand the way it looks theres no way in hell ima watch it.

Am I mad? Yep. 
I just dont get why they keep making this shit /rant


----------



## Rod (Nov 15, 2010)

Solicitations II:



> OUTSIDERS #37
> Written by DAN DIDIO
> Art by KEITH GIFFEN & MICK GRAY
> Cover by PHILIP TAN
> ...


----------



## Rod (Nov 15, 2010)

*THE ALL-NEW BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD #4*
Written by SHOLLY FISCH
Art and cover by RICK BURCHETT & DAN DAVIS
Here comes the bride! It’s Valentine’s Day and you’re invited to the wedding of...Batman and Wonder Woman?!
On sale FEBRUARY 9 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US 





Batman, committed man, does not cheat.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 15, 2010)

February will be a quiet month for me.

My wallet is given a reprieve, at least from DC.


----------



## Rod (Nov 15, 2010)

Ah, one thing folks, remember that besides "Superman:E-O" from Superverse, JMS is also concentrating in "Samaritan X" from this verse (to be released as GN afairc).


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Batman: The Return #1 preview_ 
















Morrison spends 5 pages talking about the specific Bat that inspires Bruce.  It's actually kind of poignant.


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2010)

So fucking called Bruce being Barbatos


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2010)

I think Finch draws good Bats, but  at the "Finch Eyes" (I'm coining this now) in the last page


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2010)

^

Not every detail can be marvelous-looking


Bats dying then reviving in TROBW reminded me of MGS Snake Eater

Only Bats a whole lot more *EPIC*


----------



## Parallax (Nov 16, 2010)

yeah I think the eyes sucked but the art from that preview wasn't awful.


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2010)

It's a damn shame Finch can't draw for DC more often. I read Second Coming and the art he did in it is gorgeous as fuck.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 16, 2010)

Yeah I agree, I liked the preview.  The bats looked like Bats, which I'm guessing why Morrison chose Finch to do this issue, Stewart and Quitely and such are better artist, but I don't really think they can draw Bats that gruesomely realistic, which I feel is what the script was going for.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 16, 2010)

Bender said:


> It's a damn shame Finch can't draw for *DC* more often. I read Second Coming and the art he did in it is gorgeous as fuck.



You mean Marvel right?


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm not sure which was the godliest part of Red Robin #17

-Tim getting some
-Cassandra Cain
-the good dialogue
-The beautifully written interaction between Bruce and Tim

Cass Cain definitely takes the cake

All kinds of showering win from her

I'm surprised that nobody has her re-appearance in their sigs (Or CBG for that matter)

@Parallax

What do you think?

Yes Marvel who else?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 16, 2010)

Bender said:


> @Parallax
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Yes Marvel who else?



lol re read your post again then.


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2010)

Parallax said:


> lol re read your post again then.



What? I said he doesn't draw for DC as much as he does Marvel.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 16, 2010)

Bender said:


> So fucking called Bruce being Barbatos



He wasnt.





Castiel said:


> Yeah I agree, I liked the preview.  The bats looked like Bats, which I'm guessing why Morrison chose Finch to do this issue, Stewart and Quitely and such are better artist, but I don't really think they can draw Bats that gruesomely realistic, which I feel is what the script was going for.



They really aren't that accurate or realistic. I'm sure plenty of artists could have drawn bats just as well or better. I'd guess Finch is drawing return because everyone will read it, so it will act as a sort of promotion for his art on Dark Knight book. The bats could've been worse though, they don't have the pouty lips or bulging veins


----------



## Parallax (Nov 17, 2010)

Batman Inc Preview

too lazy to post pics so click on link:


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2010)

Mr. Unkown's protege/helper is pretty damn awesome. Love his expression when he's takin a bottle to the one guy while goin mr. folgers on the other guy like it isn't even a thing.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2010)

Looks like the helper guy is going to be the new Mr Unknown and the 'current' one is already dead.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2010)

When I saw Lord Death Man, my brain made me read the page from right to left


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2010)

weird... i did that too


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 17, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Looks like the helper guy is going to be the new Mr Unknown and the 'current' one is already dead.



Is Mr. Unknown a pre-existing character? Or a new one? Well... new dead one.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2010)

new one I'm pretty sure.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 17, 2010)

Cool, I was wondering if this was another obscure nugget from comic past.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2010)

Lord Death Man is a pre-existing character though


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 17, 2010)

I love that name. Lord Death Man sounds so ridiculous, and yet... appropriate for a superhero comic.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2010)

I love how it's not "Lord Death" or "Death Man" but "Lord Death Man"

Delightfully wordy like a stereotypical 60's manga





Petes12 said:


> Lord Death Man is a pre-existing character though


For people who want background




Bergelmir said:


> I love that name. Lord Death Man sounds so ridiculous, and yet... appropriate for a superhero _manga_.



Fixed


----------



## Rod (Nov 17, 2010)

Batman: The Return looks pretty excellent from that preview, seems to be about concentrating exclusively in concept rather than also adding cartoonesque points, imma down.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2010)

I feel like there's a good chance Lord Death Man will fall under the banner of "Crazy Awesome"


----------



## Parallax (Nov 17, 2010)

Man I'm so excited to finally get to pick these up today.  The last four years were amazing for Batman but I'm ready for something new and it really seems like Inc will deliver.


----------



## Rod (Nov 17, 2010)

Also, notice one thing this Batman: The Return clarifies that this bat (that inspires Bruce) isn't another Hyper-Adapter form as some were speculating.

_"But this old bat... This old bastard bat"_

I'd suspect this echoes of Miller that Morrison wrote is kinda tribute to Batman: Year One (reference to that GM work per se).


----------



## Rod (Nov 17, 2010)

wow. Gotta fucken say it. That is a full of the fucking win variant:


----------



## Waspinator (Nov 17, 2010)

So Batguy shoots Clownhead in the face, but it's not really Batguy but Gunbat! Batguy discovers Batson after meeting Jetgirl but Batson annoys Waspinator with cries for computer terminals. Waspinator would never complain to Bossbot about such things, then Waspinator gets slagged. 

Batson leaves with Ghoulmom and Clownhead becomes CreepyClownhead! Meanwhile Batguy is fought by Musclebat and Satanbat, who tell Batguy that Batfakes are all products of Hurthead's tests to make Batguy's mind safe from slagging, though Hurthead is doing the slagging! After Batguy and Birdboy meet the Batguys of Earth, Batguy tells Batguys identity to Jetgirl! Jetgirl is taken to be slagged by Hurthead and his Gloveguys and give Batguy a major dosage of energon! Batguy looses his dataprocessor and kicks slag as PurpleBatguy! PurpleBatguy goes to the Slaghouse to save Jetgirl from Hurthead, but CreepyClownhead is there! But Hurthead insults CreepyClownguy and CreepyClownguy swears vengeance! Batguy looses the PurpleBatguy transmetal body and stops Hurtheads plan, but Hurthead says Hurthead is Batguy's maker! Waspinator's head hurts.

Batguy looks for Hurthead but cannot find Hurthead, so he goes to home base and meets Butler! But Superbot says a Prime joined the Matrix, so Batguy needs to go. Batguy takes the bullet that slagged Prime, but is kidnapped by Spacecop! Batguy's processor is slagged, but Batguy get's out before Weird Guy and Chimpbot clone Batguy. Batguy takes the bullet and shoots Unicron, but Unicron opens the stasis pod and the protoform takes Batguy back in time to the Beast Wars! When will Waspinator meet Batguy?

Waspinator searched everywhere for Batguy, but Batguy took control of the primitive fleshbots and formed the BatBot Tribe after slagging Savagebot. Then Batguy is nearly slagged by the protoform in the days of the Magicbots! But Batguy writes a journal and leaves it with Pirateman. Then Batguy finds horsebot and fights Scarred Face and Savagebot! Then Batguy is attacked by Hurthead when Batguy is only eight stellar cycles old! But Batguy takes the transwarp drive and forms a space bridge to the Time Place. Batguy becomes ComputerBat and steals Superbot's time ship. But the protoform followed! The protoform is a trap by Unicron to slag the universe by attaching to Batguy in the present! But Batguy is saved thanks to Birdboy, now Redbirdboy, and Batguy's processor, who sends the protoform back in time! But the protoform is actually the bat that inspired Batguy to be Batguy! Batguy realized Hurthead was possessed by the protoform back in time and is actually an earlier model of Batguy who has functioned for decacycles. Batguys makers discover Hurthead and try to send him to Old Slaghouse as Batguy Jr., but Hurthead had them killed for being nice and now Batguy needs to stop Hurthead! Waspinator's mind is pain.

Meanwhile, NewBatguy and Batson, now Birdboy, stop Pigbot from giving out energon and turning fleshybots into Dollheads. But Oldbirdboy came back as Hoodman! Oh wait, Waspinator forgot NewBatguy slagged him. NewBatguy realizes Batguy wasn't slagged by Unicron and discovers clues in the home base left by Batguy. Birdboy is controlled by Ghoulmom to slag NewBatguy, but Sextbot came in to save the day! It turns out Sextbot is CreepyClownhead, now DominoClownhead! DominoClownhead wants to slag Hurthead and Pigbot and makes Birdboy smile! Hurthead and Pigbot almost slag NewBatguy and Birdboy, but Batguy appears and slags Hurthead and saves Butler! Hurthead tried to run but DominoClownhead slags Hurthead, but Batguy slags Dominoclownhead! Then Batguy starts franchise!

Waspinator has no idea whats going on. Waspinator prefers Clooneybot.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2010)

Huh....that's actually pretty impressive.

Anyway, on to Return and INC. Need to reread when I have time, but I probably liked INC more. Although both titles were great. I love that Babs is tasked with Internet 3.0 (lulz), and I hope that actually means something. 

Lord Death Man is indeed crazy awesome, and I love all the new gadgets Bruce has in INC. "Airbags" FTW.

Oh yeah, there's a preview for Detective Comics in this month's GLC. It looks awesome. Really really awesome.

EDIT: My only criticism of Batman:The Return is that it wasn't what I expected it to be. I went in expecting a sort of breather issue, where Grant would deal with his reunion with Dick, Damian, Alfred, etc. Instead, I got Batman INC #0.

Which was great, but not what I expected. 

I'm a little disappointed that there was absolutely no Alfred/Bruce reunion scene, and the Dick/Damian/Bruce reunion scene consisted of one panel of "Figured you wouldn't come back like a normal person" and "We need all the batmen we can get".


----------



## Rod (Nov 17, 2010)

Should point tho, I think it's necessary to separate Bruce's personality from Bruce's inner traumas.

That being said, it's possible that some will be disappointed with Bruce's portray in the books as expect an idea.


EDIT: lol just read WW's edit in above past and figured exactly some would feel like it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2010)

Im hoping that Tomasi or Cornell will go more into Dick and Damian's reactions to Bruce's return, as well as their reaction to being assigned to Gotham for Bat-duty.

One thing that i'm really bummed about, is that we probably won't get anything more in terms of a Bruce/Alfred reunion.


----------



## Rod (Nov 17, 2010)

I felt like, alot of this was to showcase what DC tasked Finch with, that was revamping everything Bat-related in terms of image, such as vehicles, uniforms, etc... So it feels understandable that alot seem to be just filler including like 5 pages dedicated to the bat, yes. Otoh, GM did the correct thing and simply divided INC between these two initially, so at least even though slowly we still notice that the story moves to some way.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2010)

Know what I noticed? Dick Grayson was holding his nightwing uniform and im pretty sure it was his _disco nightwing uniform_. Bruce ruined the return of disco nightwing

and man, Inc 1 was such a normal straight forward adventure up til the last page, that totally caught me off guard. Just a random octopus trap thing in his apartment how does that make sense?

not sure anything tops catwoman reading hentai though.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2010)

Finch did typical Finch art, though I think he KILLED that page where the Leviathan agent was revealed.  

Lol Leviathan (just reread last couple arcs of Secret Warriors)


also LORDDEATHMAN



> "Figured you wouldn't come back like a normal person"


Well it did have to be said


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 17, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Know what I noticed? Dick Grayson was holding his nightwing uniform and im pretty sure it was his _disco nightwing uniform_. Bruce ruined the return of disco nightwing



DAMN YOU BRUCE!!! *shakes fist*



> and man, Inc 1 was such a normal straight forward adventure up til the last page, that totally caught me off guard. Just a random octopus trap thing in his apartment how does that make sense?



Think of all the weird shit in regular Japan. Now think of all the weird shit in comic book japan visualized by grant morrison.

I honestly wasn't surprised at all.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 17, 2010)

it's great that Morrison's thought process was clearly this: "I'm doing batman in japan hmm... I need HENTAI! catwoman hentai! now I need a reason for catwoman to tag along!"


----------



## Castiel (Nov 17, 2010)




----------



## Rod (Nov 17, 2010)

Oh noes its Hyper-Fauna AGAIN!!!


----------



## Taleran (Nov 17, 2010)

Goddamn it I read the narration on the last 2 pages of INC in the voice of the guy from the 60's show

and kinda was expecting

SAME BAT TIME!
SAME BAT CHANNEL!

on the last page.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 17, 2010)

I loved Inc and Return was good.

The best part about Inc was how compressed it all really was, Morrison really delivered on this one.  Like seriously I'm feeling like a kid reading this issue.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 17, 2010)

I love Inc! Its so cheese yet its modern and good


----------



## Z (Nov 17, 2010)

Inc was pretty good.

Bruce is such a boss though. Bench pressing like that with Catwoman on top of him.  

Return and Batman were good too. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



The Sensei is back?


----------



## Taleran (Nov 17, 2010)

So what do you guys think about Libra be the one in charge of Leviathan because that is what it seems like to me.


----------



## Z (Nov 17, 2010)

^ How        so?


----------



## Parallax (Nov 17, 2010)

It'd be gay


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 17, 2010)

Castiel said:


> I love how it's not "Lord Death" or "Death Man" but "Lord Death Man"
> 
> Delightfully wordy like a stereotypical 60's manga
> For people who want background
> ...



There are Bat... mangas? I should really check these out. I'm curious to see how guys in the motherland depict Batman.

And that last panel from the link: "Lord Death Man came to life using secret yoga tricks... but I resurrected myself with the strength of righteousness!" So. Damn. Fantastic. 



Waspinator said:


> Crack fueled summary


This has got to be my favorite summary of Morisson's bat run.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 17, 2010)

Inc. debuts! And the nod to the Adam West show? Yes!


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2010)

OK Batman INC. I'm all in. Let's fucking do this


----------



## Rod (Nov 18, 2010)

Actually, now that I had time to read the sneak peek of GM's script, he indeed confirms to be channeling Miller in the Bats scene.


----------



## Arishem (Nov 18, 2010)

Batman INC. was disco sexy hot. The scene at the end with Catwoman in the clutches of a giant octopus made me lol. I also really enjoyed The Return with the new perspective on Batman's genesis. All fears of the Hyper-Adapter inspiring Batman have been assuaged.  On that subject, did anyone else notice the repeat of the younger, fiercer, and stronger themes from the old bat being injured when Leviathan had that kid kill his father? I wonder if that is the opposing idea that Bruce's Batmen are going to face.


----------



## Nightblade (Nov 18, 2010)

Batman Inc. and Returns were both awesome. though could have wished there was more to the reunion of the Bat Family in Returns. beyond that, it was all good. Selina is fucking hawt.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 18, 2010)

The Return was surprisingly a fun book. I was dreading the art, but Finch impressed me. If he draws like this for his Bat book, I'll probably check that out. 

I loved Bruce's line of "We fight ideas with better ideas." After getting Platonic Ideals in the form of New Gods, and thought weapons, and primal ideas, this is just so spot on. And despite Morisson saying he's going to get away from Batman being mythological, this just pushes that theme further.


----------



## Rod (Nov 18, 2010)

I was reading the book and thinking _"hmm, this is like James Bond and these guys are like S.P.E.C.T.R.E."_ and then GM says to stylize _"James Bondish"_ in the script, cool.

Also how Bruce looks like/echoes Pierce Brosnan in some panels.


----------



## Nightblade (Nov 18, 2010)

only thing that popped into my mind was Batman One Million. didn't he have robots policing Gotham as well?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Goddamn it I read the narration on the last 2 pages of INC in the voice of the guy from the 60's show
> 
> and kinda was expecting
> 
> ...



:bathaw:

Same.

Also this was the first time in a while that Kevin Conroy's voice _automatically_ started playing in head while reading Bruce's dialogue




Taleran said:


> So what do you guys think about Libra be the one in charge of Leviathan because that is what it seems like to me.


I had almost completely forgotten Libra existed, he's like the one thing from FC that hasn't been touched upon in a book or announcement.



Bergelmir said:


> There are Bat... mangas? I should really check these out. I'm curious to see how guys in the motherland depict Batman.


It was from the guy who wrote something called "8-Man" never heard of it but it was apparently a big thing at the time.

No one really heard about the Bat-Manga until a couple years ago when DC released this big coffee table book with a handful of stories.



> This has got to be my favorite summary of Morisson's bat run.


Indeed.  I hope Waspinator sticks around.





Chalice said:


> only thing that popped into my mind was Batman One Million. didn't he have robots policing Gotham as well?



That was Kingdom Come.

He had a robot robin in 1M


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2010)

Castiel said:


> :bathaw:
> 
> Same.
> 
> Also this was the first time in a while that Kevin Conroy's voice _automatically_ started playing in head while reading Bruce's dialogue



I always do, especially issues where Bruce appears in and out of the cowl.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I always do, especially issues where Bruce appears in and out of the cowl.



Same here. Conroy has been my Bruce voice for years.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 18, 2010)

I have the christian bale Batman voice in my head while reading.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2010)

and that doesnt get annoying?


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2010)

ok so I decided to give batman 704 a look...

It's Catg-urlll! 

wow. but other than that it wasn't bad I guess, dick sounded like dick. but really why is there a catgirl


----------



## illmatic (Nov 18, 2010)

NO, You get use to it. I also LOL sometimes with it.

With Batwoman  I think predatory but sweet is how she would sound.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> ok so I decided to give batman 704 a look...
> 
> It's Catg-urlll!
> 
> wow. but other than that it wasn't bad I guess, dick sounded like dick. but really why is there a catgirl



Something about the Falcone family, only paid half attention


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2010)

batwoman in my head sounds pretty close to uma thurman in kill bill


----------



## Rod (Nov 18, 2010)

Perhaps he is back.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

I like that Morrison brought in "Detective Vision" from Arkham

also I liked the humor, definitely the closest anything in his run comes to comedy really.


----------



## Rod (Nov 18, 2010)

One thing noticed, following Morrison's characteristic in some Batman arcs, Bruce already started in the know of the big picture (instead of having to actually uncover the major part of them), same as RIP, 3 Bat Ghosts etc...


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2010)

illmatic said:


> I have the christian bale Batman voice in my head while reading.


I should neg you for this


Petes12 said:


> ok so I decided to give batman 704 a look...
> 
> It's Catg-urlll!
> 
> wow. but other than that it wasn't bad I guess, dick sounded like dick. but really why is there a catgirl





Castiel said:


> Something about the Falcone family, only paid half attention



Yeah, she's like a little sister or a niece or some shit.

Also....who do you guys hear when other batfamily members talk? /random discussion


----------



## Parallax (Nov 18, 2010)

I hear all the voices from the animated series, truth be told


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2010)

definitely kevin conroy batman. dunno about the others i dont think they sound like specific actors for the most part even though they have a clear voice in my head.


----------



## Rod (Nov 18, 2010)

I hear Sean Connery voice.




OH WAIT.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I hear all the voices from the animated series, truth be told



Pretty much this. Although Joker switches from Hammil to Ledger depending on how he's being written and for Jason I go with the guy who voiced him in Under the Red Hood.

Tim's voice in my head is Joseph Gordon Levitt from Brick minus the Noir speak, and maybe made a little younger.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 18, 2010)

actually for current day Dick I don't have a specific voice.  as a side note Darkseid is naturally Michael Ironside


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2010)

Same here, but I think I'm starting to hear Matt Bomer whenever I read Dick's dialogue. Matt Bomer is the guy from White Collar and was Bryce Larkin in Chuck.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

> Pretty much this. Although Joker switches from Hammil to Ledger depending on how he's being written


Same, also a dash of Cesar Romero for extra goofy scenes.


> and for Jason I go with the guy who voiced him in Under the Red Hood.


You mean Dean right? 


VVVVV


> as a side note Darkseid is naturally Michael Ironside


You should all be doing this


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2010)

Castiel said:


> You mean Dean right?



Yup. Although I haven't seen many episodes of Supernatural.

And of course Michael Ironside is Darkseid. Just as Tim Daly is superman and Clancy Brown is Lex Luthor. 

I actually use a lot of voices from JL and JLU when I read comics.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

You mean George Newburn as Superman


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2010)

Castiel said:


> You mean George Newburn as Superman



Honestly, it changes.

Friendly understanding inspiring supes = Daly

Righteously pissed off "I'm about to punch you into the atmosphere" supes = Newburn.

That world of cardboard speech will always be one of my favorite superman moments.


----------



## Rod (Nov 18, 2010)

I only hear some voices in Portuguese that you guys likley don't know


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

Daniel/Finch interview


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2010)

Judd Winnick said:
			
		

> Yes, we're going to do more Jason Todd/Red Hood. And yes, I'll be writing it. I can't tell you in what manner. Or what we're doing exactly, but we'll be announcing it soon. There will be some Jason Todd stuff coming out."



Hell yes. /10 char


----------



## Parallax (Nov 18, 2010)

I guess that's cool.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

Be interesting for Bruce to take time to seek him out.  They still have a lot of unfinished business.


----------



## Rod (Nov 18, 2010)

> *Finch: *(...)I've got the Demon playing an important part, and another that I'm going to be mysterious about for now. (...)



Five bucks in Zatanna, please.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2010)

speaking of supernatural, castiel is the best, perhaps only good thing going on in that show. I've only really watched season 5 but yeah. he was great in every scene. does he have much of a role in season 6?

so basically i wanted to say awesome new name kilowog.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 18, 2010)

He'll always be Kilowog to me, no matter all the name changes.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2010)

yeah hes still kilowog in my head


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> speaking of supernatural, castiel is the best,



yes



> perhaps only good thing going on in that show.



How _dare_ you forget Bobby 

Crowley is played Mark Sheppard so he's automatically likeable

I like Sam and Dean too even if they do cry too often.





> I've only really watched season 5 but yeah. he was great in every scene.


Personal favorite season, and yes I agree, if not for stupid youtube rules I'd be cycling through every scene he has on a weekly basis



> does he have much of a role in season 6?


Like he said in the final minutes of S5 he's busy in heaven (civil war going on), but he does show up when he can.

But he's still one of the best (he tackles an angel out of a window while stabbing him)



> so basically i wanted to say awesome new name kilowog.



thanks


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2010)

yeah ok I did like crowley 

just sometimes the show got a bit cheesy, in that 'we're trying and failing to do cool action stuff on tv' kind of way. like how angels dont use their swords to sword fight or anything, they just gank each other. blades never hit other blades. stuff like that.

lucifer went out like a chump.

basically they needed a bigger budget


----------



## Castiel (Nov 18, 2010)

You know, Bruce can't be happy that his first recruit used a gun with intent to kill.  I mean, Lord Death Man is definitely still alive, but still.





Petes12 said:


> yeah ok I did like crowley


Everyone likes Mark Sheppard.

(fun fact: He has a HUGE role in season 6)



> just sometimes the show got a bit cheesy, in that 'we're trying and failing to do cool action stuff on tv' kind of way. like how angels dont use their swords to sword fight or anything, they just gank each other. blades never hit other blades. stuff like that.


All go for the instant kill, don't waste time on theatrics.  Though I do agree that the first time we saw Angels and Demons fighting back in season 4, it was just fist fighting.



> lucifer went out like a chump.


Well really how else are they supposed to have beaten him?

Really lots of guys goout like chumps.  The season 1 and 2 villain Azazel was blinded with a heavenly flash then got shot with the "Instantly kill everything it hits" Colt while he had a "the fuck just happened" look on his face.  But it didnn't really feel like a cop out since it was more of a thematic thing


> basically they needed a bigger budget



Yeah that would help.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 18, 2010)

Just seemed like Lucifer never did anything to warrant how big a threat he supposedly was (or what you'd expect from the devil). make with the explosions or something.

all made up for by this genie perf


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2010)

Parallax said:


> I hear all the voices from the animated series, truth be told





Petes12 said:


> definitely kevin conroy batman. dunno about the others i dont think they sound like specific actors for the most part even though they have a clear voice in my head.


For the most part this. Like, I can't exactly put a voice to Dick or Tim, but I know what it should sound like.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2010)

ATTENTION EVERYONE. I HAVE A MESSAGE FROM MO



*Spoiler*: __ 



"BEAK!!!! " and Waspinator's Batman recap was made of win.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 18, 2010)

Castiel said:


> Be interesting for Bruce to take time to seek him out.  They still have a lot of unfinished business.



Maybe, but I think Jason is better off being separated from both Batman and Gotham for a while. I think Jason has potential as an actual anti-hero (not an anti-villain like the six, or an idkwtf like Roy Harper), but it seems like the moment he's in Bat-territory he's subject to Bat-morality and he automatically becomes a villain.

Maybe if they met somewhere outside Gotham or even the U.S., where his actions could be perceived as good despite the fact that he kills.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 18, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Maybe, but I think Jason is better off being separated from both Batman and Gotham for a while. I think Jason has potential as an actual anti-hero (*not an anti-villain like the six, or an idkwtf like Roy Harper)*, but it seems like the moment he's in Bat-territory he's subject to Bat-morality and he automatically becomes a villain.
> 
> Maybe if they met somewhere outside Gotham or even the U.S., where his actions could be perceived as good despite the fact that he kills.



I LOLed


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 19, 2010)

Chaos Ghost said:


> I LOLed



I still read Titans on the stands for the lulz, and its really the only way I can describe him.

They have to go into arkham for...some reason, and Roy actually gets high right before the trip. Shit happens, and Roy ends up fending off Clayface...high.

His weapon of choice? A staff that looks a lot like a 4 foot long drill bit.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 19, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I still read Titans on the stands for the lulz, and its really the only way I can describe him.
> 
> They have to go into arkham for...some reason, and Roy actually gets high right before the trip. Shit happens, and Roy ends up fending off Clayface...high.
> 
> His weapon of choice? A staff that looks a lot like a 4 foot long drill bit.



Please stop. Your making my scrotum bleed with that nonsense


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 19, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Maybe, but I think Jason is better off being separated from both Batman and Gotham for a while. I think Jason has potential as an actual anti-hero (not an anti-villain like the six, or an idkwtf like Roy Harper), but it seems like the moment he's in Bat-territory he's subject to Bat-morality and he automatically becomes a villain.
> 
> Maybe if they met somewhere outside Gotham or even the U.S., where his actions could be perceived as good despite the fact that he kills.



Honestly even when I read Winick's mini I thought of the guy as a villain. He's the hero of the story sure, but even compared to Punisher he is somehow less heroic.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 19, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Honestly even when I read Winick's mini I thought of the guy as a villain. He's the hero of the story sure, but even compared to Punisher he is somehow less heroic.



I agree that Jason Todd is less heroic than the Punisher, mainly because the Punisher has clear rules when it comes to what he does.

Jason has some definite mental instability going on, and as a result tends to bend the rules depending on the situation. Particularly when Batman is involved.

But in those portions of Lost Days, where Jason was taking down his teachers, or when he prevented that Bombing. That's the Jason that I want to see more of.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 19, 2010)

Oh I'd read more. I just see him as pretty much a straight villain, at least as much as the secret six. wait, would that be a good team-up? i think i'd have to see it in action to know


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 19, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Oh I'd read more. I just see him as pretty much a straight villain, at least as much as the secret six. wait, would that be a good team-up? i think i'd have to see it in action to know



I guess, but I would like to see him keep more of his morals and shit ya know? Like sometimes with the Six you can never tell when there gonna do the "right thing" and when they won't. Todd I think will more often than not. I mean, aside from Morrison and BFTC, has he ever done some straight villain shit?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 19, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Oh I'd read more. I just see him as pretty much a straight villain, at least as much as the secret six. wait, would that be a good team-up? i think i'd have to see it in action to know



Jason isn't as bad as the six. Or at least, he isn't as bad as Deadshot or Catman. Deadshot showed no remorse at finding out their employee was a slave trader, and both of them continued to work with Smyth even when some of their teammates turned.

In the same scenario, Jason would have killed everyone involved (or plotted to kill everyone as soon as possible) the moment he found out Smyth was a slave trader.

Anyways, Jason and the Six could possibly be a good team up, but Jason's "deserve to die" line is kind of ambiguous, so im not sure if he could play nice.



Chaos Ghost said:


> I guess, but I would like to see him keep more of his morals and shit ya know? Like sometimes with the Six you can never tell when there gonna do the "right thing" and when they won't. Todd I think will more often than not. I mean, aside from Morrison and BFTC, has he ever done some straight villain shit?



Pretty much.

If he were to get an ongoing I'd love to see the conflict between his morals and his lazarus+trauma induced mental issues. Make "Gatman" what happens if he completely loses control.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 19, 2010)

Z said:


> ^ How        so?



Nothing concrete just little things that you start to see while reading Morrison Batman too much.

-The "We haven't heard the last of him" when he dissapears in Final Crisis (which was by Sivana and Luthor)
-First location in INC was a lab of Dr. Sivana
-The guy on the monitor at the end of Return looked like someone who took a lightning bolt to the face.
-The entire scene with the kid seemed reminiscent of Anti-Life (and one of Darkseid's cronies called Libra the "Anti-Life that walked" in Final Crisis)

But the big one is when he laid out the theme of the book.



The idea of Crime being overthrown by the Idea of Batman. Well if you want a group in the DCU that personify the 'idea' of crime you look to none other than the The Dark Faith the Religion of Crime. (Batwoman is back too coincidence or not YOU DECIDE!). Also last time we say the Religion of Crime Libra was it's prophet.


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## Castiel (Nov 19, 2010)

Also the script included at the end stated the man on the screen was supposed to have been wearing a hood

It would make sense for Sivanna to beback in the superweapon game as a way of plotting revenge on Libra.  Since his family is *very* important to him.

Last time we saw the Religion of Crime was in Batwoman where they were having a civil war over what the prophecy of the "twice named" meant and one of the faction leaders died(?), so it would be the perfect time for Libra to unify them under one banner again


----------



## Rod (Nov 19, 2010)

Notice one thing tho, the Heretic seems to be using a Bat-mask and for some reason he knows? Damian, there has been some speculation but still quiet ones due the earlyness.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 19, 2010)

What about Talia's second clone baby.


----------



## Rod (Nov 19, 2010)

That's what I thought too. Artificially grown up Damian sort of.


Some are saying Damian from the future, even Terry McGinnis but not sure if Morrison gonna use this sci fi right now (in this time traveling level) as he pointed a more grounded scheme this time.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 19, 2010)

Also the parody of Superman Beyond was HILARIOUS


----------



## Rod (Nov 19, 2010)

btw, that _"diamond"_ they went to get in Japan seemed to be a connection to the grand scheme of the plot, it got a bit hiddened by the Mr. Unknown recruitment but still.


_"I caught a glimpse of the big picture, Selina"._


----------



## Castiel (Nov 19, 2010)

Rod said:


> That's what I thought too. Artificially grown up Damian sort of.
> 
> 
> Some are saying Damian from the future, even Terry McGinnis but not sure if Morrison gonna use this sci fi right now (in this time traveling level) as he pointed a more grounded scheme this time.


Yeah in order to gain back readers that got turned off by his crazy scifi stuff he *promised* he would be sticking to a more traditional Batman approach.  

So yeah I think Time Travel is out.   Cloning might still be in though


Rod said:


> btw, that _"diamond"_ they went to get in Japan seemed to be a connection to the grand scheme of the plot, it got a bit hiddened by the Mr. Unknown recruitment but still.



Pretty sure Sivanna's Lab Raid and Mr. Unknown's recruitment were two different things in different countries.




Taleran said:


> Also the parody of Superman Beyond was HILARIOUS



Honestly didn't occur to me until I read Uzumeri's annotations, but yeah in hindsight it is quite funny.


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## Rod (Nov 19, 2010)

Oh, I initially thought this installation of the labs was located in Japan too, but thanks for pointing that, Cas!


----------



## Slice (Nov 19, 2010)

The return was ok, not more.

Incorporated was awesome, i dont get why a lot of people complain so much about how Catwoman was presented. Also that last page was so damn good, talk about completely unexpected.


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## Bergelmir (Nov 19, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Also the parody of Superman Beyond was HILARIOUS



Could you (or someone else) expand on that? I'm clueless on what the parody was.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 19, 2010)

Bergelmir said:


> Could you (or someone else) expand on that? I'm clueless on what the parody was.



The big Powerful guy who was Fatherless fighting a VAMPIRE MAN for the love of his life. FINAL ARENA


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## neodragzero (Nov 19, 2010)

Slice said:


> The return was ok, not more.
> 
> Incorporated was awesome, i dont get why a lot of people complain so much about how Catwoman was presented. Also that last page was so damn good, talk about completely unexpected.



...There are people complaining about how Selena was presented?

I thought it was a great start as first issues go. The art was perfect while the story was Grant Morrison gold.


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## Bergelmir (Nov 19, 2010)

Taleran said:


> The big Powerful guy who was Fatherless fighting a VAMPIRE MAN for the love of his life. FINAL ARENA



Aaaah, _that_ Superman Beyond. Yeah, that I got. When I read your post, I was thinking of Superman from Batman Beyond for some reason.


----------



## DeathGuise_of_Oblivion (Nov 20, 2010)

Judd Winnick said:
			
		

> Yes, we're going to do more Jason Todd/Red Hood. And yes, I'll be writing it. I can't tell you in what manner. Or what we're doing exactly, but we'll be announcing it soon. There will be some Jason Todd stuff coming out."



........If there were any doubts, they should now be gone. God not only is real, he actually listen to my prayers. 

If Winnick does it, shit is going to be SOLID!


----------



## Parallax (Nov 20, 2010)

Batman Inc #2 cover, JH issue 3 cover is floating around somewhere but that's a variant.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 22, 2010)

Preview for *Batman & Robin #17* by Paul Cornell/Scott McDaniel





I have to admit, that double spread is pretty weak. McDaniel is making Dick way too muscley. However, I do love the detail of the action scenes.

Also, I love how in response to Damian's "We shouldn't both have a line", Dick says "Well, I've always wanted to stop a wedding" which is essentially another line haha.


----------



## Chaos Ghost (Nov 22, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Preview for *Batman & Robin #17* by Paul Cornell/Scott McDaniel
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hate how Dick is drawn


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 22, 2010)

He's too thick. McDaniel should just draw him like he did in Nightwing.


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## Castiel (Nov 22, 2010)

So to prepare for Inc. I was rereading all of Morrison's run, but just realized I skipped his issues of RoRaG so I just reread Batman #670 and #671 (Morrison's issues of RoRaG), and I gotta say even though they're part of a crossover they are still very solid issues that are about as good as the average issue of his run.


When assigments were handed out during the planning, I guess Grant got the Ra's Al Ghul parts, which was good since he wrote a pretty darn good Ra's and his scenes with Bruce were good.  It's a bit of a shame this was his only time writing him.


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## Rod (Nov 22, 2010)

^ I'd actually believe this might be useful now as he tends to work with Damian.


Also Kilo, it's time to move on and change the poll.


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## Castiel (Nov 22, 2010)

Yes

but to what


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## Petes12 (Nov 22, 2010)

for now i dunno, but in a year it should be favorite new batman.


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## Rod (Nov 22, 2010)

Perhaps for now, something more generic liek _"favourite storyteller to ever work in batmedia"_ (Bill Finger, Gardner Fox, Dennis O'Neil, Frank Miller, Steve Englehart, Doug Moench, Allan Moore, Chuck Dixon, Greg Rucka, Jeph Loeb, Alan Grant, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Dwayne McDuffie, Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Tim Burton, Christopher Nolan, etc...) 

Some weeks later then;

_"Fav art."_  (Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson, Carmine Infantino, Neal Adams, David Mazzuchelli, Frank Miller, Jim Aparo, Dick Giordano, Brian Bolland, Dave McKean, Tim Sale, Dough Mahnke, Jim Lee, etc...) 

Then;

_"Fav. Batstory."_ (The Dark Knight Returns, The Dark Knight Strikes Again, The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke, Year One, The Man Who Laughs, Knightfall, No Man's Land, Gothic, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House in Serious Earth, The Return of Bruce Wayne, Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader ?, Batman: R.i.P, Tales of the Demon, Hush, Inc, The Dark Knight, Batman Returns, etc...) 

And goes on w/ similar polls...

Actually this could work sort of an academy awards, eventually, I could make a detailed post about every choice that gets the most number of votes or something if enough interest!


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## Castiel (Nov 22, 2010)

All good suggestions, I'll have to sleep on it.

Also just read Batman #704, I liked it.

Daniel is definitely getting better at writing and has certainly gotten his "sealegs" when it comes to writing Dick.

Also it has I-Ching, who I think is cool.


----------



## Z (Nov 22, 2010)

Yeah, he needs to be more slim.


----------



## SasuOna (Nov 22, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I still read Titans on the stands for the lulz, and its really the only way I can describe him.
> 
> They have to go into arkham for...some reason, and Roy actually gets high right before the trip. Shit happens, and Roy ends up fending off Clayface...high.
> 
> His weapon of choice? A staff that looks a lot like a 4 foot long drill bit.



Man hes actually fighting people high now.........
Such a shame 
I can't let it effect my opinion of Krul though I actually liked his first issue of teen titans.
As long as he doesn't kill anyone or do something really OOC I'll be fine.


----------



## Rod (Nov 22, 2010)

Hey folks, I'm about to start a blog (here in NF) to share a bit some of the collected studies I have regarding the mythos, including the ones I've posted here whose many of you already know.

I'll be updating constantly, if colleagues ever have a read I certainly do hope you enjoy!

Rod


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## Castiel (Nov 22, 2010)

NF blog feature is by and large pointless, why not just makea blogspot or something if this is going to be a long term thing.


----------



## Rod (Nov 22, 2010)

Nah it's ok Kilo, I don't intend to have alot of people discussing, just more of a self contained stuff for ideas that can get a bit out of box so do not really derail here too.


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## Castiel (Nov 23, 2010)

So we've got another good Bat week, Batwoman #0 and Snyder 'tec #1




*Spoiler*: _Detective Comics #871 preview_


----------



## Parallax (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm really excited for this, way more than I initially anticipated


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm about as excited for Tec' as I am for INC, and thats saying something.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 24, 2010)

JHW3, Blackman and Reeder Batwoman interview with preview


----------



## illmatic (Nov 24, 2010)

Castiel said:


> JHW3, Blackman and Reeder Batwoman interview with preview


_
We've planned two years worth of issues, which breaks down into four or five different arcs, so “Batwoman” #0 really kicks everything off._

Now we know their not just making it up as they go along.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 24, 2010)

I doubt you could launch a brand new book at DC without a plan.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Nov 24, 2010)

Damn, Detective Comics is NICE.  Picked up that and B & R this week, and B & R was better than I expected, but detective comics was top notch. Can't wait for next month.


----------



## Rod (Nov 24, 2010)

New GM interview, he reveals Inc. is not merely _"a better Idea"_ from Bruce, but indeed is just part of a plan.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 24, 2010)

man the art in B&R sure was ugly, I'm not even sure if I wanna pick it up anymore.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 24, 2010)

Parallax said:


> man the art in B&R sure was ugly, I'm not even sure if I wanna pick it up anymore.



Time to jump on the Batwoman bandwagon.

*Spoiler*: _Batwoman #0_


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## Castiel (Nov 24, 2010)

bullshit mini ended with a bullshit final page


(I'm talking about Batman Beyond as if anyone didn't know)


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 24, 2010)

Parallax said:


> man the art in B&R sure was ugly, I'm not even sure if I wanna pick it up anymore.



As bad as the art was, there were some good moments. Like Dick's disco dance pose while shouting "Stop the wedding!" I couldn't help but chuckle at that.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 24, 2010)

I got a quick laugh when the "chemist" realized they were onto him and Dick and Damian just dropped him into the horde.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 25, 2010)

You know what I really like about what Snyder is planning for his Detective run is the extra focus on Commissioner Gordon.  He's my 2nd favorite Batman character and one of my all time favorite supporting characters, if not my favorite.  I'm honestly really excited about that and for that reason alone I'm gonna be picking up all these issues since I wanna see a strongly written Gordon, which is the least the character deserves.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 25, 2010)

Oh man, this cover is just fantastic.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 25, 2010)

illmatic said:


> Time to jump on the Batwoman bandwagon.
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Batwoman #0_



Man I've been on that bandwagon the second they announced it.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 25, 2010)

Snyder 'tec was great, the main story was great and he writes a pitch perfect Jim Gordon.

Also like how well the two features go together (exotic birds was a neat device), and definitely leaves me wanting to read the next issue


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 25, 2010)

Castiel said:


> bullshit mini ended with a bullshit final page
> 
> 
> (I'm talking about Batman Beyond as if anyone didn't know)



What happens?


----------



## Castiel (Nov 25, 2010)

Waller has an army of terrys in test tubes in case Terry ever dies.


----------



## Lucifer Morningstar (Nov 25, 2010)

Might start reading this one.


----------



## Rod (Nov 25, 2010)

Finally will be able to read Wednesday books, in a few.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 25, 2010)

Castiel said:


> Waller has an army of terrys in test tubes in case Terry ever dies.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 26, 2010)

Jared loves that face doesn't he?


----------



## G.O.A.T. (Nov 28, 2010)

Castiel said:


> bullshit mini ended with a bullshit final page
> 
> 
> (I'm talking about Batman Beyond as if anyone didn't know)



Wasn't that ending just there to set-up the ongoing?


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Nov 28, 2010)

Castiel said:


> Waller has an army of terrys in test tubes in case Terry ever dies.



Considering the fact that Terry is a clone of Bruce now we have an army that is a clone of a clone.

Metal Gear Solid ring a bell anyone.


----------



## ghstwrld (Nov 28, 2010)

Terry isn't a clone; he's Bruce's biological son.

Try again.


----------



## Kameil (Nov 29, 2010)

Can't wait to read this.


----------



## Bergelmir (Nov 29, 2010)

So is anyone else really impressed with Batwoman #0? This is Williams' first writing gig, right? Pretty damn awesome for a first timer.


----------



## Penance (Nov 29, 2010)

Parallax said:


> Man I've been on that bandwagon the second they announced it.





Bergelmir said:


> So is anyone else really impressed with Batwoman #0? This is Williams' first writing gig, right? Pretty damn awesome for a first timer.



It actually reads like a BOSS issue...I'd pick it up.


----------



## Cromer (Nov 29, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Considering the fact that *Terry is a clone of Bruce* now we have an army that is a clone of a clone.
> 
> Metal Gear Solid ring a bell anyone.



Is that the new reality in the Beechen ongoing? Bleergh.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 29, 2010)

Kameil said:


> Can't wait to read this.


Oh hey, welcome back been too long since you left


Bergelmir said:


> So is anyone else really impressed with Batwoman #0? This is Williams' first writing gig, right? Pretty damn awesome for a first timer.



He wrote a few things in the past, but he never made a career out of it.


----------



## Rod (Dec 2, 2010)

Quality, Cas?


			
				The Source said:
			
		

> *
> DETECTIVE COMICS #871 goes back to press, gets high praise*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 2, 2010)

Just re-name this as "the official Grant Morrison dick-riding thread".


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 3, 2010)

whoa now... WW uses this thread to fanboy all over red robin too! 

Plus, you know, till the last few weeks all the other batman books have blown for the last year.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> whoa now... *WW uses this thread to fanboy all over red robin too! *
> 
> Plus, you know, till the last few weeks all the other batman books have blown for the last year.



At first I was like "Wonder Woman did what? "


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 3, 2010)

Not having fun with GM's Batbooks, MO?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 3, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> whoa now... WW uses this thread to fanboy all over red robin too!
> 
> Plus, you know, till the last few weeks all the other batman books have blown for the last year.


Damn straight I do! 

Admittedly, it does kinda bug me sometimes how the only discussion in this board is Morrison discussion.

Thankfully, Batwoman and 'Tec both seem awesome. 

/is fully aware Red Robin is "pretty good" at its best, and doesn't merit much discussion 8/10.



LIL_M0 said:


> At first I was like "Wonder Woman did what? "



WW = Whip Whirlwind (formerly windwaker) round these parts. 

Yea that's right wonder woman, I said it. Fuck you, and your silly leather jacket.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 3, 2010)

what should we have talked about instead of morrison, catgurrrrll?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 3, 2010)

Point, B & R has been the best bat book on the stands for awhile.

Although Streets of Gotham (when written by Dini), Red Robin, and Batgirl (surprisingly) are all decent books.

Now though, I'm really looking forward to 'Tec, Batwoman, and Tomasi's B & R. And if Nicieza upped the pace of Red Robin I'd be more excited about that too. Last issue was good, but it still hasn't surpassed Yost's final arc (Tim vs. Ra's).

Although Fabian's said he's thinking about bringing Red X into the DCU, so that could be cool.


----------



## Slice (Dec 3, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> Plus, you know, till the last few weeks all the other batman books have blown for the last year.



With the exception of Batwoman, this is true.

Red Robin was ok too i guess but i only read like 3 or 4 issues of it.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> what should we have talked about instead of morrison, catgurrrrll?



Yes.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 3, 2010)

I feel like there were quite a few decent books out, as I mentioned above. Morrison just raised peoples' standards 

EDIT: Fuck catgurll, the coolest kid hero introduced in the batbooks over the last year was Colin Elliot aka Abuse.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Not having fun with GM's Batbooks, MO?


I enjoyed BandR over time. Only after I got off of the internet w/o having to see all of this utterly ridiculous fanboyism. Posting walls of text, analyzing and then over-analyzing every panel with a fine-tooth comb... and the other Taleran-like postings from various forums.  

RoBW still sucks though. [/unwavering]


Whip Whirlwind said:


> I feel like there were quite a few decent books out, as I mentioned above. Morrison just raised peoples' standards
> 
> EDIT: Fuck catgurll, the coolest kid hero introduced in the batbooks over the last year was Abuse aka Colin Elliot


I liked Daniel's Batman arc that intro'd cat girl, the false faces/ who is Black Mask arc. Catgirl herself, not so much.

Abuse must've come from Streets of Gotham, I don't read that... or Azrael.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 3, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> I enjoyed BandR over time. Only after I got off of the internet w/o having to see all of this utterly ridiculous fanboyism. Posting walls of text, analyzing and then over-analyzing every panel with a fine-tooth comb... and the other Taleran-like postings from various forums.
> 
> RoBW still sucks though. [/unwavering]



Some analysis is nice, and sometimes it mentions an allusion back to a book that I've never read or one I haven't read in a long while, which enhances my enjoyment a tiny bit.

As for ROBW, I liked it, but the only issues that were really WOW to me were #2 and the last 2.



> I liked Daniel's Batman arc that intro'd cat girl, the false faces/ who is Black Mask arc. Catgirl herself, not so much.
> 
> Abuse must've come from Streets of Gotham, I don't read that... or Azrael.



Why does nobody read Streets of Gotham? When Dini writes it it's gold. (or at least a very fine silver).



Blood Mask Robin is disappoint.

Daniels' Batman is okay, and getting better, but he still tends to write Dick Grayson like Bruce Wayne from time to time.

@Slice

Did you stop after reading the first 3 or 4 issues, or have you randomly read 3 or 4 issues out of order? I ask because the first 4 issues are pretty much garbage. The series gets much better in it's latter half, where Tim stops being such a sadsack and starts fucking up the league of assassins.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2010)

You're missing out with Azrael, not because it's the best thing out there (though it is pretty darn good imho) but it is unlike any comic I've read in a very long time its so fucking weird (just ... just trust me Hine is taking it an ... interesting place.  If it wasn't for the fact that no one reads it, I'm sure a catholic advocacy book would be trying to ban it)



> Just re-name this as "the official Grant Morrison dick-riding thread".


I predict most of my dickriding from now on will be of Scott Snyder

Detective Comics #871


----------



## Penance (Dec 3, 2010)

Castiel said:


> You're missing out with Azrael, not because it's the best thing out there (though it is pretty darn good imho) but it is unlike any comic I've read in a very long time its so fucking weird (just ... just trust me Hine is taking it an ... interesting place.  If it wasn't for the fact that no one reads it, I'm sure a catholic advocacy book would be trying to ban it)
> 
> I predict most of my dickriding from now on will be of Scott Snyder
> 
> Detective Comics #871



871 was greatness, it was...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 3, 2010)

Castiel said:


> You're missing out with Azrael, not because it's the best thing out there (though it is pretty darn good imho) but it is unlike any comic I've read in a very long time its so fucking weird (just ... just trust me Hine is taking it an ... interesting place.  If it wasn't for the fact that no one reads it, I'm sure a catholic advocacy book would be trying to ban it)



Hmm, ill check it out.



> I predict most of my dickriding from now on will be of Scott Snyder
> 
> Detective Comics #871



What this guy said.

I definitely liked 871 more than I liked INC #1, although thats largely due to personal preference.

This is going to be the best 'TEC run since Dini.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2010)

I forgot that I read the last Azrael. He's going crazy, and 
*Spoiler*: __ 



apparently, dead. 





Detective Comics had Jock, but it really didn't "do it" for me like the rest of you guys.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 3, 2010)

im with you on tec m0, it was alright and i'll probably keep reading it but it didnt blow me away or anything.



Whip Whirlwind said:


> This is going to be the best 'TEC run since Dini.



Rucka's Batwoman was after Dini


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 3, 2010)

Shit you're right. 

Best Batman centered 'TEC run since Dini. Although I consider Dini's run and Rucka's run about equal. JH Williams probably puts Batwoman on top though.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 3, 2010)

We can safely say it's better than the filler arcs they did when rucka decided to leave!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 3, 2010)

Yea, I realized after your comment that my statement didn't really amount to shit...

But im more into this than I was Batwoman.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 3, 2010)

After Rucka's Batwoman, I don't really remember any of the following DC story arcs.. aside from that one issue I posted in the OWN3D thread, cause it made me laugh.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 3, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> I enjoyed BandR over time. Only after I got off of the internet w/o having to see all of this utterly ridiculous fanboyism. Posting walls of text, analyzing and then over-analyzing every panel with a fine-tooth comb... and the other Taleran-like postings from various forums.
> 
> RoBW still sucks though. [/unwavering]



Yeah, ROBW is weak.  I don't know what I was expecting, but I certainly didn't expect tons of FC + Batman RIP + Hurt i.e., shit that's uninteresting and barely comprehensible.  The lame release schedule didn't help either.

I dropped it with the quickness.  BatRob too once Hurt started becoming a thing again.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 3, 2010)

Then you guys might have liked B&R #16, it was just Morrison deciding to turn the character in a joke.  Bruce basically punched his teeth in for 5 pages, then he loses all credibility in a fuck up a child would make, then Joker kills him 


EDIT: ya know what, just going to plug my good buddy the AnimeMaster and post his VAd version of B&R #16


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 3, 2010)

> It always starts out like this - we think we?re on an escape trajectory, that we?ve used the gravitational pull to slingshot around, that from now on it?ll be continuity-free ninja-manbat giant robot mice Adam West on LSD stories for ever and ever. And like any black hole, the filfth-world Uber-narrative catches us again in our elliptical orbit, and soon what once a light-hearted continuity free romp turns into fractal hell, its metaphor crushing in on itself as we kiss the event horizon.
> 
> There can be no escape.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 3, 2010)

I liked the dr hurt plot (obviously), it was fun to try and figure out just what was going on before it was all revealed.


----------



## runsakurarun (Dec 3, 2010)

I've recently discovered these motion comics, taken from Batman: Black and White


----------



## Rod (Dec 4, 2010)

To be frank, what goes on with the community (particulary at annoyingly higher levels in DC boards, to a lesser extent in CBR and company) is since GM is such a polarizer, unfortunately when someone points something that didn't like, the said _"critic"_ (like any of us are, or can be) is labeled as _"hater"_ many times from the get-go, that is not to say it wouldn't be right in specific cases, indeed some people come for the sake of doing it, yes. However, it seems part of the fans do not instantly realise sometimes stuff will simply just not meet other's standards/tastes/requirements/whatever..etc... thus, up to constructive criticism. It's sad because inhibits/unstimulates alot to share ideas whose otherwise the discussion (and work) could greatly benefit from diversificating the points of view, and at most, Grant himself.

This helps to create an _"aura"_ around, much like an illusion, that simulates (dictates) _"perfection"_ but in reality, not very much. 

That being said, the same occurs vice-versa in what regards _"rotulation"_.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 4, 2010)

At the same time though, some Morrison lovers are so so annoying.

"I don't like Morrison's bat books" = "I can't understand Morrison's bat books"  in some of their eyes.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 4, 2010)

Morrison doesn't deal well with criticism either.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 4, 2010)

Wouldn't surprise me. 

However, I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking your own work is awesome. I mean, confidence (borderline cockiness) is something i'd assume is pretty important for a writer to have. The doucheyness comes in when a writer's response to criticism is that the critics lack an understanding of the work.

I've literally seen someone respond to a Morrison critic by writing multiple paragraphs explaining how its not a flaw in the book, but a flaw in the critic's reading comprehension. He then further went on to say how it isn't the critic's fault, but was instead the fault of his country's education system. Of course, the guy responded with "Oh, you're one of _those_ fans." Gotta love the DC Boards 

I'm guessing Morrison isn't like that, and acknowledges that sometimes his work just isn't for certain folk. I'd be surprised if that wasn't a factor that influenced the change in tone from B & R to Batman INC.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 4, 2010)

Morrison thinks folks suffer from schizophrenia because they don't like Seaguy.

No joke.


----------



## Slice (Dec 4, 2010)

As long as this big ego of him lets him pump out awesome stuff i'm ok with it.

While he quickly rose to one of my favourites i can see why people do not like his stories. these DC boards sure sound like they are filled with a lot of strange people.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 4, 2010)

the DC boards are full of morons who twist sales numbers and other bullshit to make wild claims about how 'good' a story or direction is, just because it's not what they had when they were growing up in the 60s or wheneverthefuck


----------



## mow (Dec 4, 2010)

I tried the DC forums once, and boy let me tell you it simply affirmed a fact I already knew: the worst thing about comic books are comic book fans. Srsly. No fandom has managed to shit out a more loathsome, disgusting hateful lot than them. 

They hate change and would holler about it, as if it's a good thing for a character to stay the same way for more than half a century, go out of their way to defend fictional characters in fictional fights (in a manner even more retarded than the PS3 fans vs 360 fans, and don't even get me started about those fuckwits) in the most obnoxious fashion possible, buy shit books while whining about how shit they are, the fucking bellends (see Red Hulk), slam the publishers for canceling books that they "love" when they d/led the issues instead of buying the damn things to support the writers (see: Thormighty Avenger . At least my excuse is that i live in the uae and we dont get issues, only TPBs. What's your excuse, you cuntbags?) and if that wasn't bad enough, they almost all portray the genetic stamp of trolls.

It's a fucking wonder a fair majority of you guys here are actually great to have a chat with about comics to. Alternate universes collapsed onto themselves from lesser hyperbole.

On the issue of GM: I love him. He taps into angles of characters in a way no one else does. I can clearly see why people might not like him, and i'm cool with that. I do have a problem when people say he's just drugged out / writing nonsense. You may dislike his approach, but at least admit the guy's writing chops are amongst the best in the world, 

A good analogy would be grindcore music. It's certainly not for everyone, the music is loud and quite intolerable at times, and I can def see why people might not be into it, but at least admit the people making it are some of the most talented musicians in the world, because anyone who can play drums better than a freaking drum machine is obviously a goddamn genius. 

[/rant]


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 4, 2010)

mow said:


> They hate change and would holler about it, as if it's a good thing for a character to stay the same way for more than half a century



eh... there are a lot of cases where you want to keep characters within certain parameters, or else you end up moving away from what makes them work well for the next generation. which ironically is what OMD was about but of course everyone hates that change.

usually it's just used as an excuse to complain though.


----------



## mow (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm not arguing that, I'm saying they hate change just for the sake of it. Disliking a change in character/direction because it's done in a way it's something the character would never do and/or completely BONKERS is totally justifiable.

It's like when they go ape-shit about costume changes. the hell is up with that?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 4, 2010)

oh man, you just reminded me of a thread or something I saw, with a few guys complaining constantly that the artist on supergirl gave supergirl some tiny shorts under her skirt and lowered the top, to make the costume more modest. they were going absolutely nuts about how this destroyed the character or something.

it was kinda creepy.


----------



## mow (Dec 4, 2010)

" YOU BASTARD HOW CAN I WANK TO *THIS* ???"

I cant totally see that happening. and it burns my eyes.

I mean if you're gonna wank to someone, at least make it Namor


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 4, 2010)

someone not like 16 would be great too.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 4, 2010)

Reminds me of this hilarious twitter exchange I walked into in one of the few times I logged on.

Some guy made an insult tweet to Cameron Stewart about how his art was too Cartoony and how he should stick to his indy stuff.

This caused Cameron to be genuinely confused since he didn't understand what was bad about cartoony.

Then a 3rd tweeter posted that a cartoony Catwoman is harder to masturbate to than a more realistically drawn one.  

Which led to Stewart posting several tweets that were just combinations of "oh god" and "ahahahaha"


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 4, 2010)

yeah that sounds about right. god comic fans are worse than the WoW forums, and that is really saying something.


----------



## Rod (Dec 5, 2010)

Hilarious ones are WW, you just want to have a relaxed discussion, write a bit about the last chapter and stuff, and then when you enter, first topics you see are: _"What Diana's opinion on abortion?" , "Is Diana virgin? if not, what would be the analogy of homosexuality in Amazon society?"

_



...


----------



## Slice (Dec 5, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> yeah that sounds about right. god comic fans are *worse than the WoW forums*, and that is really saying something.



I can only speak of the german Blizzard forums (regardless which game) but they are filled with 95% people complaining about stuff they hate and 5% complaining about all the other people that do nothing other than complain.

It's like the worlds biggest troll network.




Petes12 said:


> oh man, you just reminded me of a thread or something I saw, with a few guys complaining constantly that the artist on supergirl gave supergirl some tiny shorts under her skirt and lowered the top, to make the costume more modest. they were going absolutely nuts about how this destroyed the character or something.
> 
> it was kinda creepy.






Also somehow the threads got mixed up, there is Batman discussion in the convo thread and a convo in the Batman thread


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 5, 2010)

mow said:


> I'm not arguing that, I'm saying they hate change just for the sake of it. Disliking a change in character/direction because it's done in a way it's something the character would never do and/or completely BONKERS is totally justifiable.
> 
> It's like when they go ape-shit about costume changes. the hell is up with that?



Apparently, Tim Drake's character was RUINED ALL TO HELL when he started wearing a cowl. 

And like I've said before, the primary reason I frequent the DC forums is to chat with Fabian Nicieza. It's unbelievably awesome that I can read an issue, think "Hmm, Tim's new HQ is the theatre in crime alley? Not sure how I feel about that. I wonder what made Nicieza go with that?"

Then I can ask him exactly that and within a day get a legitimate response from the writer about why he made that decision and what it means for the book going forward.

Same with Simone and secret six.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 6, 2010)

I admit, it took me awhile to get used to the head cowl.

But it grew on me.

I still remember the complaints readers posted at Huntress' Batgirl costume during NML, which was then passed onto Cassandra Cain.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 6, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I admit, it took me awhile to get used to the head cowl.
> 
> But it grew on me.



Same here. But the difference is, we don't consider something trivial like what kind of mask/cowl/headgear a character wears to be integral to the character.

The domino mask was never a "tim drake" thing. If anything, it was just a "robin" thing, and despite the name Red Robin != Robin


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 6, 2010)

One of the very, VERY few good things to come from Countdown.

The costume gave Tim a new identity, and opened the way for Damian as Robin.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 6, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> One of the very, VERY few good things to come from Countdown.
> 
> The costume gave Tim a new identity, and opened the way for Damian as Robin.



Sorta, but I think its more like Damian as Robin opened the way for Tim getting a new identity. I'm glad it happened, but I kind of wish it was a result of Tim developing into the new role naturally, as opposed to being somewhat forced into it by Damian becoming Robin.

Overall I just felt DC had a poor direction for Tim post final crisis. The whole "search for bruce wayne" arc of Red Robin comes off as really forced or as dead weight. You can tell that the story Yost really wanted to write was the one with the league of assassins and such.

But I guess I should just be grateful it worked out as well as it did.


----------



## Taleran (Dec 6, 2010)

mow said:


> I tried the DC forums once, and boy let me tell you it simply affirmed a fact I already knew: the worst thing about comic books are comic book fans. Srsly. No fandom has managed to shit out a more loathsome, disgusting hateful lot than them.
> 
> They hate change and would holler about it, as if it's a good thing for a character to stay the same way for more than half a century, go out of their way to defend fictional characters in fictional fights (in a manner even more retarded than the PS3 fans vs 360 fans, and don't even get me started about those fuckwits) in the most obnoxious fashion possible, buy shit books while whining about how shit they are, the fucking bellends (see Red Hulk), slam the publishers for canceling books that they "love" when they d/led the issues instead of buying the damn things to support the writers (see: Thormighty Avenger . At least my excuse is that i live in the uae and we dont get issues, only TPBs. What's your excuse, you cuntbags?) and if that wasn't bad enough, they almost all portray the genetic stamp of trolls.
> 
> ...



Well there goes my need to post anything. I have also gotten to the point that I no longer care if other people on the internet enjoy what I enjoy. They are just wrong and I am happy to let them read their terrible comics


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2010)

Morrison Bat books take up 4 out of the top 5 top selling comics.  A record?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 6, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Sorta, but I think its more like Damian as Robin opened the way for Tim getting a new identity. I'm glad it happened, but I kind of wish it was a result of Tim developing into the new role naturally, as opposed to being somewhat forced into it by Damian becoming Robin.
> 
> Overall I just felt DC had a poor direction for Tim post final crisis. The whole "search for bruce wayne" arc of Red Robin comes off as really forced or as dead weight. You can tell that the story Yost really wanted to write was the one with the league of assassins and such.
> 
> But I guess I should just be grateful it worked out as well as it did.



At least his direction was better than Cassandra's.



Castiel said:


> Morrison Bat books take up 4 out of the top 5 top selling comics.  A record?



Indeed.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 6, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> At least his direction was better than Cassandra's.



Well...yea.

Way to rain on my complain parade


----------



## Parallax (Dec 6, 2010)

Damn that's insane


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 6, 2010)

tim's direction has been poorly handled since identity crisis or maybe before that.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 6, 2010)

What are the top five selling comic books?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2010)

In order: Return one-shot, Inc. #1, Avengers #7, Return BW #6 and B&R #16


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 6, 2010)

wow

I don't read any of those.

And I'm surprised some people have turned around on Red Robin.  I remember folks trying to put up hardcore defenses when I said the first eight or so issues are a total mess.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 6, 2010)

Surprised that Inc sold less than the one shot


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2010)

here's the complete stats for people curious.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 6, 2010)

Why does Batman the return cost five dollars?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 6, 2010)

because people will pay it. 

it does come with some sketches and some of morrison's script etc but that hardly justifies a price bump

I'm surprised return 6 outsold B+R 16. you'd think everyone who got return 6 would also want to get 16


----------



## Parallax (Dec 6, 2010)

Because its longer than average comes with extras actually has a cover made of higher quality paper


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2010)

It had one of those cardstock covers.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 6, 2010)

yeah but i kinda see stuff like the cover material as a way for them to justify wanting to raise the price point in the first place.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 6, 2010)

Cardstock cover is always an automatic dollar on the price, been like that for years


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 6, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> tim's direction has been poorly handled since identity crisis or maybe before that.



You mean when they killed off his father and then had him angsting over Conner?

. . .


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 6, 2010)

yes exactly. not to mention spoiler's temporary death, that was around the same time wasnt it? only good thing to come out of all of that was the new costume


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> wow
> 
> I don't read any of those.
> 
> And I surprised some people have turned around on Red Robin.  I remember folks trying to put up hardcore defenses when I said the first eight or so issues are a total mess.



You say that like you're surprised.

As for RR, Im not sure about the first 8, but I'd definitely give you the first 6. And I fully admit that there was a good chance I was the "some people" you are referring to 

Once Yost didn't have to deal with tie ins to Return of  Bruce Wayne and just tell the story he wanted to tell the quality certainly jumped.

Unfortunately, Fabian seems to just be dragging along. He's not telling bad stories, its just all set up.



Petes12 said:


> yes exactly. not to mention spoiler's temporary death, that was around the same time wasnt it? only good thing to come out of all of that was the new costume



Ha exactly.

The whole "batman lite" thing they've been pulling since identity crisis is really annoying. It's gotten a little better since then, but the best Tim Drake stories are still Dixon's Robin and Young Justice.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 7, 2010)

It still remains in my head that, for all Bat-family characters who AREN'T Batman, their best runs have come under Chuck Dixon's pen. Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Tim Drake...if Chuck took the decision today to write Batgirl, I bet you the story quality jumps four notches within two issues.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 7, 2010)

It still somewhat depends on what direction editorial tells him to do.

Also, Dixon had his shot at writing Cassandra in Batman & the Outsiders.

His characterization was. . . alright. Some things, he got. BUT, she's not a nudist.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 7, 2010)

Does Yost ever explain the whole Iraq thing?  Aren't Bruce Wayne's travels mostly in or around Gotham's territory?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 7, 2010)

He never explained it, I'm pretty sure it was an editorial fuck up where no one answered his questions or told him what Grant was doing.

But if you want a half assed assertion, (dart board), continental drift?


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 7, 2010)

A mess indeed.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 7, 2010)

eh not really, it's pretty easily forgotten about or not really important


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 7, 2010)

Parallax said:


> eh not really, it's pretty easily forgotten about or not really important



I dunno. If I were him I'd be pretty pissed.

"Hey Chris, I need you to write a story about Tim Drake looking for evidence of Bruce Wayne being in the past"
"Okay, can someone give me some info about Bruce's time in the past?"
"No."

I'm sure he would have liked to know beforehand that Bruce would be in Gotham for the entirety of RoBW.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 7, 2010)

The whole Iraq adventure is supposed to give credence to the thought that Tim needs help from Ra's al Ghul and friends.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 7, 2010)

Yea, and it served that purpose. 

But the whole "search the globe for clues" nature of the first few issues seems kinda silly given the fact that bruce wayne was in gotham the whole time. Sure, there's the idea of things moving over the course of history, but its still a little odd.

While we're on the topic of Red Robin (I think this is a new record!)




			
				On the subject of the TT crossover said:
			
		

> My issue really serves as set-up, as *half the issue is Red Robin getting his ass handed to him by Catman* and the second half is Tim reuniting with the Titans.



That issue is going to be fun.

EDIT: Oh yea, and for CBG, he talks about Cass in there too. Some hints that Gail plans to use her in BoP, and that he plans to use her for an arc of RR in the spring.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 7, 2010)

It's not just kinda silly.  It's totally arbitrary, laughably specious, and it undermines the entire story.

I want my money back.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 7, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Does Yost ever explain the whole Iraq thing?  Aren't Bruce Wayne's travels mostly in or around Gotham's territory?



yes but Morrison didn't decide to make it all happen in gotham until later in the planning stages. I'm guessing yost's story made more sense when he was writing it.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 8, 2010)

Comic Book Guy said:


> It still somewhat depends on what direction editorial tells him to do.
> 
> Also, Dixon had his shot at writing Cassandra in Batman & the Outsiders.
> 
> His characterization was. . . alright. Some things, he got. BUT, she's not a nudist.



Ahh...

I kinda skipped that (couldn't afford it, and swore off DLing comics) so can't really say. But I was more talking about 'Batman Beyond in the Present' aka the current Batgirl run with Stephanie Brown. I picked up a few, and I was surprised by how much the whole Barbara-Stephanie thing felt like gender swapped Bruce-Terry. (Or maybe it's just me)


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 8, 2010)

No, it's not just you. Some posters of the DC Batgirl boards picked that out too, and they either like it or hate it because of that.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 8, 2010)

Bruce Wayne doesn't behave like a bumbling teenager in BB, though.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 8, 2010)

ghstwrld said:


> Bruce Wayne doesn't behave like a bumbling teenager in BB, though.



give it time. beechem in writing beyond, remember?


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 8, 2010)

red star's too cool to use someone else's broken window, he makes his own


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 8, 2010)

I lol'd when I saw that. 

And I loved Tim's reactions in this issue.

"Mikalek's in bed with the society"
"Of course he is"
" crap"

Also, the whole falling chair push thing was pretty slick. I like how he works around the cripple thing.

Overall the issue was decent, but the next issue better be great. Fabian's been doing a crap load of set up, he needs some good climax.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 9, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> I hadn't read Red Robin since the end of the "R'as Al Ghul will kill all your friends " arc, cause I had been busy, how's it been lately?


Heh. Wrong thread.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 9, 2010)

Red Robin isn't a bad book by any means. There hasn't been a crap load of action, and its kind of a slow burner, but it has its moments. Nicieza has a pretty firm grasp on the characters he writes and as a result the character interactions are pretty much the best part of the book.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 9, 2010)

I liked when Nicieza wrote (regular) Robin, so I figured it'd be good. Did they ever mention Zoe (I think that was the Black girls name) again? Not to sound like a pairing fan, but I hate how abruptly her and Tim's relationship ended. It was basically like "Peace out,  bitch. " with no after thought.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 9, 2010)

She's mentioned in a later issue when he has lunch with Ives, and was apparently about to flip a shit when she saw the engagement headline. However, I don't think she'll be back. Tim feels shitty about how their relationship ended, but is starting to seriously doubt that he can ever have a relationship with anybody not "in the loop", friends or otherwise.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> She's mentioned in a later issue when he has lunch with Ives, and was apparently about to flip a shit when she saw the engagement headline. However, I don't think she'll be back.


They need to have an awkward moment though. I had one of those with my ex-finace at the gas station a little while ago. It was... well, awkward. 



Whip Whirlwind said:


> Tim feels shitty about how their relationship ended, but is starting to seriously doubt that he can ever have a relationship with anybody not "in the loop", friends or otherwise.


Makes sense. Plus, Tam Fox also knows karate.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 9, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> They need to have an awkward moment though. I had one of those with my ex-finace at the gas station a little while ago. It was... well, awkward.



We've all been there. Although, I suppose Ex fiance is quite different from ex girlfriend. 

But I'd love to see Tim run into Zoanne sometime. Particularly, I'd love to see Tim and Tam run into Zoanne sometime. THAT would be awkward.



> Makes sense. Plus, Tam Fox also knows karate.


And Krav Maga  But overall I like Tam more than Zoanne. Tam has more moxy.

On a related note, I find it kind of interesting how diverse Tim's girlfriends have been. You certainly can't accuse the guy of having a "type".


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> We've all been there. Although, I suppose Ex fiance is quite different from ex girlfriend.
> 
> But I'd love to see Tim run into Zoanne sometime. Particularly, I'd love to see Tim and Tam run into Zoanne sometime. THAT would be awkward.


Yeah, that would be. Like if Tam came to meet Tim (heh. Tam and Tim) after school and he saw Zoe and was lookin at "". Awk-WARD. lololol


> And Krav Maga  But overall I like Tam more than Zoanne. Tam has more moxy *money*.


Fix'd.  


> On a related note, I find it kind of interesting how diverse Tim's girlfriends have been. You certainly can't accuse the guy of having a "type".


Zoe and Tam kinda look alike though.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 9, 2010)

LIL_M0 said:


> Yeah, that would be. Like if Tam came to meet Tim (heh. Tam and Tim) after school and he saw Zoe and was lookin at "". Awk-WARD. lololol



Haha I can see that. Then Zoe says something to make Tim feel like a jackass, Tam asks "what was that all about?", and Tim sulks and says "Oh nothing, just a reminder that I'm a jackass  "



> Zoe and Tam kinda look alike though.



I suppose Tim does like that brown sugar 
But yea the two of them do look a little similar, although I think Tam has softer features.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 10, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Haha I can see that. Then Zoe says something to make Tim feel like a jackass, Tam asks "what was that all about?", and Tim sulks and says "Oh nothing, just a reminder that I'm a jackass  "
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So we are all agreed that Tam>Zoe, then?

Anyway, eagerly awaiting 'tec Annual. I hear there's gonna be some new French Muslim type dude ( getting recruited into Inc?). I just hope they don't center the whole thing on his religion and ignore making him awesome...


----------



## LIL_M0 (Dec 10, 2010)

"It was only then that young Stephanie realized that gravity would forever be her enemy."


----------



## Cromer (Dec 10, 2010)

Is that from Batgirl 16?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 10, 2010)

Yes


----------



## Rod (Dec 12, 2010)

Damnish DC... We should be discussing about Finch's TDK by now (for the good or for the bad). 

Should I add an opinion, releasing the book at 29 of December isn't actually the optimal way I suspect (of course, from this layman point of view) wonder if wouldn't it be better now that damage is done anyways, hold on a bit and nevertheless wait for January. 

Well w/e... By the way, it's interesting how Batman is incredibly iconic in Brazil, certainly sole number one here without a doubt between children and teenagers (what I dare say reflects a bit the incredible exponential popularity grow the character passed by during these lastest decades). For the record, the country's HBO channels versions, MaxPrime, WB, etc... It's possible, and I've presenced that happening in multiple cases, that at same time, three different movies of the Dark Knight being aired.

Certainly, such enviroment had it's influence in such the Batsucker I've become.


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Dec 16, 2010)

just read Batman 705

*Spoiler*: __ 




The Riddler has a daughter?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 17, 2010)

Who's the mother?


----------



## typhoon72 (Dec 18, 2010)

That hole in Absences head looks too big. It just looks dumb, even with the explanation.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 19, 2010)

Batman 705...under Tony Daniel's pen, Dick looks utterly incompetent both as detective and reactive fighter.


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 19, 2010)

How shit is Batwoman: Zero?

I go in expecting tons of Kat Kane, and instead get Bruce Wayne.  What he thinks, much less whether or not he approves of her most definitely should not take priority in the first issue of her book.

And of course we don't get the scene where she reveals that she's known all along and tells him to fuck off.  

No wonder JHW was so pissed.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 19, 2010)

started reading batman and robin from three issues ago. Damian is fun


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 19, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> started reading batman and robin from three issues ago. Damian is fun



this is the wrong way to start reading batman and robin.


----------



## Slice (Dec 19, 2010)

Wait... Three issues ago?

You Read the last book of Morrisons run and then the first two by Cornell?


----------



## Parallax (Dec 19, 2010)

Yeah that confuses me....


----------



## Evolet (Dec 19, 2010)

It's been like, 6 months since I've been following anything Batman, what's been up...besides Riddler having a daughter.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 20, 2010)

Other than the Joker utterly punking Dr. Hurt like a little chunk of cheese and Dick proving to be a worthy bearer to the cowl... Oh, not much.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 20, 2010)

Bruce is back too


----------



## Cromer (Dec 21, 2010)

And proving that he hasn't lost the 'jerk' gene at all !


----------



## Evolet (Dec 21, 2010)

Ah, so same old, same old. 

Selina and Scary? How have they been doing?


----------



## Parallax (Dec 21, 2010)

Well Batman Inc is anything but the same old same old


----------



## Cromer (Dec 21, 2010)

Agree with parallax. Bruce only came up with the whole Inc concept after having basically been fused with one of the keepers of all Universal History, past to future until universal entropic heat death. Morrison has GOT to have something better on hand than 'same old'.

I saw Scarcrow in Superman/Batman 77. Yellow ring addiction must be horrible, no?


----------



## typhoon72 (Dec 21, 2010)

Evolet, you best catch up on the Batbooks.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 21, 2010)

Dog Rapist said:


> Agree with parallax. Bruce only came up with the whole Inc concept after having basically been fused with one of the keepers of all Universal History, past to future until universal entropic heat death. Morrison has GOT to have something better on hand than 'same old'.
> 
> I saw Scarcrow in Superman/Batman 77. Yellow ring addiction must be horrible, no?



Not as bad as the Orange ring addiction.


----------



## Penance (Dec 21, 2010)

lol, my precious...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 22, 2010)

It's mine! MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE!

/KurtAngle


----------



## Bender (Dec 22, 2010)

Greatest Batman feat website


*EVER*


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 23, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Inc 2 spoilers_ 



 I love how in Batman's mind shooting a guy is crossing the line. But shooting a guy into space is totally okay. Even if said guy is immortal.




EDIT: Thanks Bender.


----------



## Bender (Dec 23, 2010)

@Bergelmir

Pssst

Your spoiler is showing


----------



## Evolet (Dec 23, 2010)

typhoon72 said:


> Evolet, you best catch up on the Batbooks.



I have no money 

and TPB take forever.


----------



## Proxy (Dec 23, 2010)

Your local library may have some graphic novels


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 23, 2010)

Inc #2 was. . . alright.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 23, 2010)

Inc. #2

Great last page

or the greatest?





Also anxiously awaiting when Lord Death Man's eventual return with gamma space powers 

what

it could happen

shut up


----------



## Parallax (Dec 23, 2010)

Inc #2 was tons of fun, I can't wait for issue 3


----------



## Taleran (Dec 24, 2010)

Castiel said:


> Inc. #2
> 
> Great last page
> 
> ...




?Anyway, what?s so funny? You?ve never
been mind-controlled by a gorilla??


and yeah Lord Death Man is just as amazing as his hype. This book


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 24, 2010)




----------



## Evolet (Dec 24, 2010)

Proxy said:


> Your local library may have some graphic novels



They do, plenty. But nothing too recent.


----------



## Cromer (Dec 24, 2010)

I feel your pain, Evolet. Imagine, my local bookstore just got the Final Crisis trade! I usually have to import my comics in three month binges. Though I broke my 'no downloads' oath with the last six issues of B&R just to take the edge off. And I'm currently broke too.  I'm not sure what I'm gonna do next month.


----------



## Bender (Dec 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> Greatest Batman feat website
> 
> 
> *EVER*



The best thing about this site is that it showed that Bats isn't all about prep timing. 
Also stealthing the shit out Jay Garrick 

Bad-ass fucking shit

Bring back more of this Bat plz


----------



## Bender (Dec 24, 2010)




----------



## Petes12 (Dec 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> Bring back more of this Bat plz



It's like we aren't even reading the same comics


----------



## Castiel (Dec 24, 2010)

> Page 11: As I mentioned earlier, this issue, Lord Death Man seems to stop speaking in Japanese and start randomly rambling in English about death, which to a certain degree seems even creepier than usual since the people he's casually mowing down can't even understand him. He also staples shut his own neck, which is pretty hardcore.
> 
> Page 12: Think about this: Lord Death Man gets shot in the head and falls out of a multi-story apartment building, goes to the hospital, recovers, gets out, blows up a bus full of kids, steals a car and starts driving recklessly through buildings and other cars in Tokyo.
> 
> Before Grant Morrison started on this title, he mentioned that Inc. was inspired by his experience with open-world videogames, and let me tell you, that paragraph I just wrote sounds like every drunk and high college kid playing a quick no-plot, all-carnage game of Grand Theft Auto between classes. Lord Death Man's power set is basically to respawn like Niko Bellic, while he's being pursued by a Batman in a dark, very articulated suit that's more than a bit reminiscent of his pseudorealistic outfit from the Arkham Asylum videogame. This is the Batman comic of the Xbox era.


----------



## Bender (Dec 24, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> It's like we aren't even reading the same comics



*Beat*














What? 












The latest incarnation of Bats relies on prep time most of the time. 

Where the fuck have you been?


----------



## Castiel (Dec 29, 2010)

Man Bruce chose to be the French Batman is a muslim.

racists go apeshit.





for the record this wasn't done in Inc. this was in Hine's Annuals, which were pretty good.

Also I like this concept a lot.  Also he has a kickass design


----------



## ghstwrld (Dec 29, 2010)

Parkour Batman?  So he moves like Spider-Man minus the spider motif?

Cool.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 29, 2010)

Well he _is_ the Paris Batman


----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2010)

Castiel said:


> Man Bruce chose to be the French Batman is a muslim.
> 
> racists go apeshit.
> 
> ...




LOL LOL LOL

That costumes both funny and kick-ass

Bruce a mix of Moon Knight and Spidey


----------



## neodragzero (Dec 29, 2010)

I gotta say, the Batman Inc. stuff has gotten me back into reading multiple Gotham series again.

Proof again that haters just hate:


I mean, it was a good story. It was interesting, somewhat thoughtful when it makes it clear that France isn't simply just a matter of being native French, and a good costume nonetheless. David Hine and Kyle Higgins did good.


----------



## Penance (Dec 30, 2010)

Ah...glorious...


----------



## Castiel (Dec 30, 2010)

I like David Hine, he's consistently good (Azrael has gotten fun and his Spirit is fantastic)

I hope he gets an actual Batbook in the future since Azrael is getting cancelled


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 30, 2010)

Castiel said:


> Man Bruce chose to be the French Batman is a muslim.
> 
> racists go apeshit.
> 
> ...


I dont understand why so many racists seem to be reading comics lately. Every week its something new.


----------



## mow (Dec 30, 2010)

^ pretty much my immediate thought 

my second one was god what fucking retards 

my third one holy shit costume is badass


----------



## Castiel (Dec 30, 2010)

Yeah I like it.

Unlike the Japan Batman, this says "Bat" but is still unique enough
and it keeps the parkour feel

though he needs a beret


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 30, 2010)

ok you know whats confusing? why does montoya not cover up her giant scar thing. in costume she uses stuff that makes her eyes and mouth disappear, its hard to believe she cant manage the scar.


----------



## neodragzero (Dec 30, 2010)

Castiel said:


> Yeah I like it.
> 
> Unlike the Japan Batman, this says "Bat" but is still unique enough
> and it keeps the parkour feel
> ...



I find it funny how the ridiculous complaint about Batman sticking with a native Japanese person but not a "native French" person also shows utter ignorance when most people in Japan aren't actually native past migrations go. Heck, Japan isn't anywhere near as diverse compared to France by a long shot even if you include the number of Ainu, Koreans, etc. all together at once.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 30, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> ok you know whats confusing? why does montoya not cover up her giant scar thing. in costume she uses stuff that makes her eyes and mouth disappear, its hard to believe she cant manage the scar.



The Mark of Cain was made by God to be forever visible, so that everyone would know Cain.  Covering it up would defeat the purpose, and frankly be impossible.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 30, 2010)

she covers it up fine when she's the question.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 30, 2010)

God respects the secret identity


----------



## neodragzero (Dec 30, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> she covers it up fine when she's the question.



Maybe she has to completely cover her face to the point of the blank Question look before the mark isn't visible. That's the only thing that really comes to mind as an excuse...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Dec 31, 2010)

That's a sweet costume.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2010)

Petes12 said:


> I dont understand why so many racists seem to be reading comics lately. Every week its something new.



well, not exactly racists in general, just anti muslim feeling has been running wild in France lately.


----------



## neodragzero (Dec 31, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> well, not exactly racists in general, just anti muslim feeling has been running wild in France lately.



It's actually racist in general when the complaints, from the blog and such, are from white Americans who know nothing of France and make it very obvious they barely read the two part story at most. The hateful argument is as ridiculous as claiming that someone isn't American if they aren't white and Christian. Even more so with the suggestion that readers will be confused by the concept of a muslim being a hero.

Sarkozy is hated by the majority of France so don't consider him a reflection of its majority populace.

So, the controversy over this story isn't from the gripes of a French person. Just an ignorant bunch of people with no sense of history and reality.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 1, 2011)

Has anyone read David Finch's book yet? Is it any good?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2011)

Of course they do
These got a laugh out of me


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 2, 2011)

neodragzero said:


> It's actually racist in general when the complaints, from the blog and such, are from white Americans who know nothing of France and make it very obvious they barely read the two part story at most. The hateful argument is as ridiculous as claiming that someone isn't American if they aren't white and Christian. Even more so with the suggestion that readers will be confused by the concept of a muslim being a hero.
> 
> Sarkozy is hated by the majority of France so don't consider him a reflection of its majority populace.
> 
> So, the controversy over this story isn't from the gripes of a French person. Just an ignorant bunch of people with no sense of history and reality.



Well, they did have that burqa ban a little while ago.

And there's a lot of anti-muslim feeling, don't you tell me what the heart of the immigrants of europe's say 

Anyway, this is just as hilarious as the guys that said that guy from wikileaks should be prosecuted for treason... Even though he was australian


----------



## mow (Jan 2, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> Has anyone read David Finch's book yet? Is it any good?



I'd answer your query, but the art was so wretched I couldn't go through the issue before needing to battle the urge to remove my eye balls out with a rusted spoon

Finch _needs_ to die.


----------



## neodragzero (Jan 2, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> Well, they did have that burqa ban a little while ago.


Sarkozy. He's hated by most of France.


> And there's a lot of anti-muslim feeling, don't you tell me what the heart of the immigrants of europe's say


There's the anti-muslim feeling but it has nothing to do with the ridiculous complaints made about the French Batman. The complaints are from douchebag ignorant Americans that know nothing of France.


> Anyway, this is just as hilarious as the guys that said that guy from wikileaks should be prosecuted for treason... Even though he was australian


Don't you mean girl? Sarah Palin of course is dumb enough to talk of treason and such when wikileaks isn't based in the US and Julian Assange is Australian. Heck, I can't remember any other country suggesting that to make sense at all for any info leaked from their diplomatic side.


mow said:


> I'd answer your query, but the art was so wretched I couldn't go through the issue before needing to battle the urge to remove my eye balls out with a rusted spoon
> 
> Finch _needs_ to die.


I'm not even mean enough to suggest that Jeph Loeb and Liefied need to die. A coma, broken hands, chopped off arms, etc., sure. Death is pushing it.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2011)

Aren't there only 33 women in all of France who wear burqas, why the fuck would they make a _LAW_ banning them.  I'm sure more people wore Twilight T-Shirts





> Don't you mean girl?


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 2, 2011)

> There's the anti-muslim feeling but it has nothing to do with the ridiculous complaints made about the French Batman. The complaints are from douchebag ignorant Americans that know nothing of France.



I thought it was plot point first time I heard about it to be honnest


----------



## neodragzero (Jan 2, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Aren't there only 33 women in all of France who wear burqas, why the fuck would they make a _LAW_ banning them.  I'm sure more people wore Twilight T-Shirts


Like I said before, Sarkozy. He has this weird idea in his head that most people in France think how he does. As you can see from the riots that cripple the entire nation's infrastructure, he thought wrong.

Keep in mind this is the guy who happily stared at the kadunk of a teenaged Brazilian girl on camera.


>


I actually wrote down a transcript for this interview he did with a producer I know. It was the most painful thing to listen to and record in my entire life. A single sentence required 5 to 10 minutes of pondering what the hell he said. The interview was almost an hour. Heck, the producer said it was the hardest interview he ever did.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 2, 2011)

Don't forget Sarkozy tore down the berlin wall 

really?  He seemed coherent on the Colbert Report


----------



## neodragzero (Jan 2, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Don't forget Sarkozy tore down the berlin wall
> 
> really?  He seemed coherent on the Colbert Report



And Colbert is dead serious for his show.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 3, 2011)

somehow i missed the backup for french batman till now, it was really good... a lot better than the main story



Banhammer said:


> well, not exactly racists in general, just anti muslim feeling has been running wild in France lately.



its not the french who are complaining about the annuals, as far as i know.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 5, 2011)

HOLY
FUCK





> “Bruce Wayne’s back from the dead with barely a moment to catch his breath before he must prepare for the battle of his life in BATMAN INC.
> 
> “On the way towards this ultimate confrontation, Batman and El Gaucho, Argentina’s No.1 crimebuster, face a terrifying new villain whose world-shaking masterplan stretches across 2 decades, 3 countries and 3 interlocked issues, which also feature Batwoman, a whole new team of British heroes and the debut of The Batman of Africa, in a dark and twisted super-espionage thriller.
> 
> “And waiting in the wings are team-ups with Chief-Man-of-Bats, Batgirl and a mind-blowing CGI adventure with Oracle, as piece by piece, we learn the secrets of Batman Inc. and find out what Bruce is REALLY up to!”


----------



## Penance (Jan 5, 2011)

Oho...TIME


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 5, 2011)

Okay, how shit is the new Batman Beyond comic?

  Be gentle; I'm fragile.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 5, 2011)

We're all too scared to touch it

edit:


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 6, 2011)

I like the comments


----------



## Slice (Jan 6, 2011)

> _razieldumas says on January 5th, 2011 at 6:25 pm :_
> 
> The only news I want to hear in regards to the Batman Beyond comic is that the earlier mini-series has been retconned out of existence and anyone but Beechan is writing the series.



The man has a point.


The first issue was not as bad as the mini, but i wouldnt call it good either.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 6, 2011)

neodragzero said:


> I'm not even mean enough to suggest that Jeph Loeb and *Liefied* need to die. A coma, broken hands, chopped off arms, etc., sure. Death is pushing it.



But I *like* Liefeld. Not the stories, sure, but I actually like that particular art style.

In fact, me and a friend of mine are currently 43 pages (procrastination alert!) into a graphic story of our own, and he pretty much (without even knowing who Liefeld is) draws in that style.

Meh, to each his own.


----------



## Slice (Jan 6, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> But I *like* Liefeld. Not the stories, sure, but I actually like that particular art style.



Are you serious?


----------



## Cromer (Jan 6, 2011)

Slice said:


> Are you serious?



Deadly serious.
Wonky anatomy, cartoony musculature, and fucking pouches for the win.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 6, 2011)

*J.H. Williams talks plans for Kate Kane/Batwoman in 2011 *


----------



## Castiel (Jan 6, 2011)

source
I'm liking this run


----------



## neodragzero (Jan 7, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> But I *like* Liefeld. Not the stories, sure, but I actually like that particular art style.
> 
> In fact, me and a friend of mine are currently 43 pages (procrastination alert!) into a graphic story of our own, and he pretty much (without even knowing who Liefeld is) draws in that style.
> 
> Meh, to each his own.



I feel sorry for you and your friend. There isn't simply just the bad anatomy, the weird eyes, and the utter poses repetition, but the way the art is so badly weird in just conveying what happens in a panel or more is quite awful.

I have no problem with someone enjoying the sensation of being punched in the face. I just personally don't prefer it with most people who happen to agree.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 8, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> But I *like* Liefeld. Not the stories, sure, but I actually like that particular art style.
> 
> In fact, me and a friend of mine are currently 43 pages (procrastination alert!) into a graphic story of our own, and *he pretty much (without even knowing who Liefeld is) draws in that style*.
> 
> Meh, to each his own.



I'm cringing.

While I can't deny Liefield's influence, I can't say that he's a good artist. At best, he's gotten better over the years, but some of his art faults are still there.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 8, 2011)

BATMAN *THE DARK KNIGHT* #1  is the bestselling comic for December 2010


I didn't read it. The  review I did read said #1 was dull/generic/not particularly worth reading.

So sad, I know their are some who miss this incarnation of Batman too.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 8, 2011)




----------



## illmatic (Jan 8, 2011)

I liked the tumbler. Seeing all the different variations of the batmoblie is also quite nice


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 9, 2011)

comic book ones tend to look really terrible for some reason. i really hate the giant bat heads on the grill.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 9, 2011)

I grew up with the Adam West, Tim Burton, and TAS Batmobiles. I even had a picture of myself besides a Burton one, back when I was a child.

Unfortunately lost to the photo albums in the garage.


----------



## mow (Jan 9, 2011)

by the way, was the Neil Adams book good? I adore him, and I don't want the book to ruin his legacy in my head.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 9, 2011)

Is that Odyssey? If so, STAY AWAY.


----------



## G.O.A.T. (Jan 9, 2011)

illmatic said:


> BATMAN *THE DARK KNIGHT* #1  is the bestselling comic for December 2010
> 
> 
> I didn't read it. The  review I did read said #1 was dull/generic/not particularly worth reading.
> ...



I liked it more than Batman Inc. But that's mainly because I'm not a fan of the concept of Inc. I like a streetlevel Batman who mainly works alone in Gotham.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 9, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Is that Odyssey? If so, STAY AWAY.



What are you talking about Odyssey is one of the funniest books of the year.


----------



## Penance (Jan 9, 2011)

Batman Orphans IS the funniest...


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jan 9, 2011)

Officer "Have you seen any (Red Hoods) running rooftop - rooftop in your neighborhood."


----------



## Cromer (Jan 10, 2011)

Penance said:


> Batman Orphans IS the funniest...



THAT incomprehensible drek?

I picked up the first issue...


----------



## Cromer (Jan 10, 2011)

neodragzero said:


> I feel sorry for you and your friend. There isn't simply just the bad anatomy, the weird eyes, and the utter poses repetition, but the way *the art is so badly weird in just conveying what happens in a panel* or more is quite awful.
> 
> I have no problem with someone enjoying the sensation of being punched in the face. I just personally don't prefer it with most people who happen to agree.



One of his greatest weaknesses.

But then, I'm the weird guy who prefers the art in Irredeemable to J.H. Williams' work on Detective Comics last year. I know everyone says it's great or whatnot, but I found the art was often getting in the way of a real pageturner. But Krause just keeps it simple without ever dropping the ball, staying out the way so Waid can do his thing.

And I just read Inc. #2. Lord Death Man just became my new favourite villain. I want to see that guy come back from space with chainsaws on each arm and fricking cosmic lazer beams out the eyes.


----------



## Penance (Jan 10, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> THAT incomprehensible drek?
> 
> I picked up the first issue...



That's why I laughed...

SO bad...

Lord Death Man for recurring 'Unknown' Batman villain...


----------



## Slice (Jan 10, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> And I just read Inc. #2. Lord Death Man just became my new favourite villain. I want to see that guy come back from space with chainsaws on each arm and fricking cosmic lazer beams out the eyes.



The part where he blew up a bus full of schoolgirls and proceeded to go all GTA on the city was just perfect.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 10, 2011)

Slice said:


> The part where he blew up a bus full of schoolgirls and proceeded to go all GTA on the city was just perfect.


And all that in ENGLISH!! Poor Japanese must have been way confused, seeing a guy shouting incomprehensibly and blowing them up laughing.

Hope Morrison can keep this up.


----------



## Juggernaut (Jan 10, 2011)

*Gotham High!*



Also,


----------



## Castiel (Jan 10, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> And I just read Inc. #2. Lord Death Man just became my new favourite villain. I want to see that guy come back from space with chainsaws on each arm and fricking cosmic lazer beams out the eyes.



I like that Morrison wasn't lying about the *Just Cause 2* influences


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 10, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> But then, I'm the weird guy who prefers the art in Irredeemable to J.H. Williams' work on Detective Comics last year.



That is weird, not just because JHW is very good, but because I found the art in irredeemable to be pretty fucking awful, like a third rate DC book.

edit: man that came out like a harsher criticism of you than i intended. I really hate that art though, it's so lifeless.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That is weird, not just because JHW is very good, but because I found the art in irredeemable to be pretty fucking awful, like a third rate DC book.
> 
> edit: man that came out like a harsher criticism of you than i intended. I really hate that art though, it's so lifeless.



I like JHW3's art - in the abstract. In the pages of Detective Comics it just got confusing.

Krause keeps it simple, non-confusing. His art is - not outstanding by any means, but it facilitates Waid's storytelling without forcing me to reread a page just to decipher what happened when.

And I don't think that was harsh - did I miss something somewhere?


----------



## Taleran (Jan 11, 2011)

That is actually the reason I like the more complicated art it gets me to slow down when I am reading so I do not miss anything.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 11, 2011)

Complex art is only good if the composition is good and uses space properly.

Which Williams is a master of.


----------



## Alia_Atreides (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm here to ask a few questions, if anyone could answer/discuss the topics. 

I'm not familiar with the current arcs of the Bat-comics for a number of reasons, the first being that I don't live in the US, and in my country comics are published with a delay of six to twelve months. Ok. So, I also haven't been reading Batman since Bruce Wayne "died", and that's because I wasn't very pleasead by Morrison's run with the character, even before his death. When Bruce was gone, and Batman and Robin were then Grayson (who I like) and Damian (who I find annoying), I decided I would take a break. 

Cut to the present moment and arcs of Bat-comics, and we have the return of Bruce Wayne and new issues for the character, one of them the Batman, Inc. of the title in this thread. Question: is it worth reading? What's the present status of Bruce Wayne in those comics? Has secondary characters like Catwoman, Barbara Gordon and Tim Drake been adressed in the main Bat-titles (those written by Morrison and Detective Comics)? 

What's your opinion concearning Morrison's run and the present status of Batman(s)?

¨Thank you for your attention.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 12, 2011)

Morrison's run is one of my all time favorite, with ease.

Batman Inc IS worth reading and all the secondary characters are addressed over the course of the bat books.  Batman Inc and Detective Comics are currently my favorites coming out.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 12, 2011)

and his Batman and Robin run will drastically improve your opinion of Damian, I guarantee it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 12, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> I like JHW3's art - in the abstract. In the pages of Detective Comics it just got confusing.
> 
> Krause keeps it simple, non-confusing. His art is - not outstanding by any means, but it facilitates Waid's storytelling without forcing me to reread a page just to decipher what happened when.
> 
> And I don't think that was harsh - did I miss something somewhere?



I think there are great artists who keep things nice and simple... but I dont think Krause is one of them. I just really hate his work for some reason.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 12, 2011)

Morrison's run is pretty messy, and totally indecipherable if you're unwilling to read whole volumes of other material besides the "primary" Batman book.  I thought the derailment by Final Crisis would be the worst of it, but Batman and Robin is totally unwieldy too; major plot points from other works (some of which I wasn't aware of until recently) appear and disappear at random, and no sufficient explanations are provided.

Batman Inc promises to be a continuity-free romp, but so did Batman and Robin at the outset.

I pass.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 12, 2011)

I never ever read beyond Morrison's Batman run and was never confused.  I really don't get where that complain comes from.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 12, 2011)

Well the years long plotline had to be finished somehow.

Also Morrison said he wrapped up the whole plot and was going to leave but then he got the idea for this Leviathan arc and stayed on to start it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 12, 2011)

All I can think of that ghstwrld might be referring to would be batman 700-702, which was a pretty typical dumb move on DC's part, they do stupid shit like that all the time.

Otherwise I don't see what could possibly be confusing about where you need to read.


----------



## mow (Jan 13, 2011)

Surprise, comics continuity!!!!


----------



## Alia_Atreides (Jan 13, 2011)

> and his Batman and Robin run will drastically improve your opinion of Damian, I guarantee it.



 I wonder. It's just the kind of character that didn't have an appeal to me when it first appeared. I think he was pictured as kind of a psycho-brat at first, and not only was that annoying, it was also kind of a cliche, in my opinion. Yet another trained however undisciplined kid to be put under Bruce's care... the fact that he is/could be/probably is Bruce's byological son really has no impact in the storyline. Not that the byological link means anything, but parenthood was thrown at Batman in the same way it has been done three times before, maybe more. 

But I guess that I haven't read enought stories that had Damian in, and definately didn't read anything that has him as Robin. I guess I'l give it a try.



> Morrison's run is pretty messy, and totally indecipherable if you're unwilling to read whole volumes of other material besides the "primary" Batman book. I thought the derailment by Final Crisis would be the worst of it, but Batman and Robin is totally unwieldy too; major plot points from other works (some of which I wasn't aware of until recently) appear and disappear at random, and no sufficient explanations are provided.



I guess I agree with you at some point. I read Morrison's stories until RIP, and I thought he was giving us so many possibilities that weren't really used. What bothered me back then was the fact that he had this big arc going on, all right, but sometimes it seemed like there were abrupt interruptions. Also, his Batman didn't seem conected in anyway with the Batman we saw in every other comic in DC Universe. While he wrote in a way that was closer to cult-noir-mixed with sci-fi at some points, the other comics remained with their "classic" view. Even Bruce Wayne, written by him, had very unusual traits... closer to the Batman we usually saw before Zero Hour, maybe even before Crises in Infinite Earths. It was his shot, I guess, and no doubt DC gave Morrison lots of freedom. But I confess I wasn't very impressed. 

Anyway, just my two cents. Don't think Morrison is bad, just wasn't what I personaly liked in a Bat-comic. Somehow he tried to distance himself from Miller's Batman, but I actually like Miller's Batman of Year One, for instance. Not All Star Batman and Robin, that crazy ride, but Year One... that's Batman for me.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 13, 2011)

Which is funny because by the end of Return of Bruce Wayne the character has NEVER been closer to Year One, but still at the same time he is different.



> Morrison's run is pretty messy, and totally indecipherable if you're unwilling to read whole volumes of other material besides the "primary" Batman book. I thought the derailment by Final Crisis would be the worst of it, but Batman and Robin is totally unwieldy too; major plot points from other works (some of which I wasn't aware of until recently) appear and disappear at random, and no sufficient explanations are provided.



You are going to have to explain yourself here. If you read all through Batman to the end of Last Rites and then from Batman & Robin from 1 - 16 the *only* thing that is not explicitly stated is 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Where Bruce REALLY comes from in #15-16 is explained obviously in the series called RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE


 

and sorry but things like that I have no sympathy for because of how obvious it is. However if it is something else please post what it is.

Asking that question here is loaded.

Everyone here seems to really like his Batman especially when you get into the Batman & Robin issues and into the end of that and then there is Ghstwrld.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 13, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Which is funny because by the end of Return of Bruce Wayne the character has NEVER been closer to Year One, but still at the same time he is different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

To add to that, I'd dropped out of comics around 'Hush' (mainly money issues, plus I was epically bored), and started reading comics again when I heard Bruce Wayne had died. Specifically, I picked up at B & R #01.

While I read up to #9 without reading anything else, I found it told a good enough story, while leaving enough hints as to a bigger storyline that I was seriously tempted to start continuity hunting.

And then Dr. Hurt came in and I had to anyway.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 13, 2011)




----------



## Cromer (Jan 13, 2011)

Thank GOD this went into development hell. Barbara and Bruce the same age? Joker as a teen psycho? No wait, scratch that last, teen! Joker might actually be awesome.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 13, 2011)

> It had to happen, and there's been some great moments to it. I guess my biggest problem is (oddly enough, since Morrison's pulled this off so well before) all the self-referencing going on, the repetition of scenes we've read before, the constant name-checking of past plotlines or ones going on in other books. When he did that kind of stuff in "Final Crisis" it worked really well, because none of the referencing actually mattered in terms of the larger story: it was just soundbites, characters' whole histories reduced to the level of those mad, dashed-off Grant Morrison Ideas we love so much. But here it's actually important that you've read the other comics, in order, and retained the minutiae of certain subplots that have kept boiling and boiling for months on end. Again, the books' lateness is a big part of what makes that so frustrating, but at the same time a lot of that reference never really goes anywhere. It's wasting valuable real estate. All that stuff with the Miagani, the little bat-coffin, the 99 Fiends, even to a large extent the Wayne family history? Either written out of the way or wrapped up with more fizzle than bang. And I really do think that this part of my quarter-bin method is rock solid: if a new reader can't understand the comic, it isn't that good.



- posted only because Tal always makes it seem like I'm crazy or totally making shit up whenever GM is the topic of discussion


----------



## Slice (Jan 13, 2011)

Actually, i would have liked to see that.

Its always good when an alternate universe story is really different from the source.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 13, 2011)

Any Highschool Batman cartoon that doesn't end with the joker setting fire to the school ground within the first three minutes is a pile of utter shit.
Ten if they want to make the episode about him and he has to go out of his way to make sure that hot Selina cheerleader asks quarterback Kent to the prom instead


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 13, 2011)

that looked incredibly lame

ps: shut up ghstwrld. youve complained about the continuity before and its just as dumb now as it was then.

suggesting a comic cant possibly be good if its confusing when you jump into the middle of the story instead of starting at the beginning is just unbelievable.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 13, 2011)

Yeah, except that's not what's promised at the outset.

  I can quote GM himself saying Batrob welcomes new readers.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 13, 2011)

It _did_ welcome new readers, like over 70% of it.  Then best as I can figure a miniseries was added as the final arc


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 13, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Yeah, except that's not what's promised at the outset.
> 
> I can quote GM himself saying Batrob welcomes new readers.



1) no one cares

2) it did, they just had to play catch up when it hit issue 10 or so.

it might not have been a great business move but that hardly means theres anything wrong with the story itself. there's a difference between good and accessible.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 13, 2011)

I can respect GW not liking it, not everyone will dig Morrison's work.  But the continuity complaint always confuses me.  I mean I read some of Morrison's Batman run(not all) then I stopped reading comics for over a year.  Got back in when B&R came out and that was pretty easy to read and follow up to #10 where by then I read the rest of Morrison's run.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 13, 2011)

So essentially, we all agree that B&R is pretty accessible to new readers...upto issue 10?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 13, 2011)

I think same can manage until 12.  The final arc thought definitely works best in the context of RIP


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 13, 2011)

speaking of batman and robin, cornell finally made the absence kind of interesting.

also, most virtual reality stuff in comics is terrible, but red robin's was clever enjoyable. I especially liked the riddler in that.

and damian should be a permanent character on the batgirl book.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 13, 2011)

I'd totally give a Miller written Damian book a shot


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 13, 2011)

I dont think Damian would work as a solo hero tbh, he needs a partner to annoy and be annoyed with.


----------



## Slice (Jan 14, 2011)

Steph trying to show Damian what fun is was great.

"I'm thinking about stabbing you"


----------



## Taleran (Jan 14, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> - posted only because Tal always makes it seem like I'm crazy or totally making shit up whenever GM is the topic of discussion



See however I disagree with that assesment and personally I feel that You can give someone Batman & Robin #1-16 and they would be reading good entertaining comics and not be confused.

Sure it doesn't explain EVERY little tiny detail about the events  surrounding RIP but the question then becomes how much info on Doctor Hurt is needed to make the story interesting? You still end up knowing a lot about him over the course of the story anyway.

He still comes off as a fantastic over the top villain from just what is shown of him in B&R.


----------



## mow (Jan 14, 2011)

Newbie: Hey guys! I'm a new dude to comicsand I just heard about this marvel thing called heroic age! Sounds neat! But wait, isn’t marvel always heroes based?

The nerds: well yeah, but before this came along, the big baddies were governing the marvel world!!! HEADED BY THE GUY WHO KILLED SPIDEYS GF!!!

Newbie: OH SHI!!! How did that happen, you guys?

The nerds: These nasty little aliens called the skrulls infiltrated the heroes and posed as some of the major wanted and wanted to invade the Earth!!!!

Newbie: HOT DAMN!!! Who are these guys?

The nerds: bunch greenies the avengers met back in the day…IN SPACE

Newbie: oh wow, who are these avengers???

The nerds: bunch super heroes who met to defeat threats that are bigger than their singular abilities can handle. they're lead by Cap

Newbie: Whose Cap

The Nerds: Weakly Steve Rogers who got a super solider formula to fight the nazis

Newbie: but the nazis where in the 1940s???

The Nerds: yeah he was frozen in ice in his last mission and later discovered by the avengers

Newbie: Kick ass! So is he still captain america?

The nerds: nah he quit his role after he died and came back to life and he left the role to his side kick who also died and came back to life who is now the new captain america while steve rogers is the top policeman the role Osborn occupied before heroic age

Newbie: woah!!! so are you telling me comics build up on past events, creating a sequence of stories that carry aspects and aftermath of previous tales to create new ones, with those stories becoming a major aspect uniting a vast universe populated with various characters and forming a distinct factor of their make up and that sometimes I might have to read older issues of stuff that happened a long while back ago to appreciate and understand some of the current stuff??

The nerds: Atta boy! 


*Comics, everybody!*


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I dont think Damian would work as a solo hero tbh, he needs a partner to annoy and be annoyed with.



Damian: The Brave and The Bold


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 14, 2011)

lol

And some people wonder why folks skip DC/Marvel comics all together and stick with manga.


----------



## mow (Jan 14, 2011)

> The creation of a massive shared universe that draws on itself to create new stories is probably my favorite thing about super-hero comics, and it's the one thing that they've managed to perfect, to the point where they do it on a scale that no other medium even approaches. I'd even go so far as to say that continuity is necessary for the genre as we know it. Serialized storytelling only really works if it's depicting a series of events, and if events are ignored -- like that time Superman fought four different guys named Zod in the span of a decade and never once mentioned any of the others -- then the illusion of a shared universe is shattered.



Additionally, I declare that the ignore list is proof a benevolent god.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 14, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> lol
> 
> And some people wonder why folks skip DC/Marvel comics all together and stick with manga.



But with manga, you *definitely* have to start with issue one. With comics, every few years, the editorial heads get together and go 'hey, we need a jump-in point for new readers (most recent example being Marvel's Point One thingie). Writers, get to slaving!'


----------



## Slice (Jan 14, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> But with manga, you *definitely* have to start with issue one. With comics, every few years, the editorial heads get together and go 'hey, we need a jump-in point for new readers (most recent example being Marvel's Point One thingie). Writers, get to slaving!'



Recap pages, they solve so many problems.


----------



## Bender (Jan 14, 2011)

Has Cassandra made another appearance in Red Robin's book yet?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 14, 2011)

You've been threatening to put me on your ignore list for a while now.  Just do it, get it over with, and stop being a fucking bitch. You're certainly not doing me any favors by not doing so.



Dog Rapist said:


> But with manga, you *definitely* have to start with issue one. With comics, every few years, the editorial heads get together and go 'hey, we need a jump-in point for new readers (most recent example being Marvel's Point One thingie). Writers, get to slaving!'



Um, okay.  And?

No one at VIZ (or wherever) is foolishly telling folks it's totally okay to jump in at volume 10 of their books, or treating their readers with such disdain and contempt as to have their stories be brutally aborted/totally derailed by multi-title crossover events and make it next to impossible to get some semblance of a complete story without participating in them.  

The last part is extra vicious because it makes a lot of the collected editions totally useless.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 14, 2011)

well manga and comics are very different, you can't expect them to be written in the exact same style...


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 14, 2011)

No, not really.

DC and Marvel are pretty much the only ones who engage in that sort of foolishness.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 14, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> No one at VIZ (or wherever) is foolishly telling folks it's totally okay to jump in at volume 10 of their books, or treating their readers with such disdain and contempt as to have their stories be brutally aborted/totally derailed by multi-title crossover events and make it next to impossible to get some semblance of a complete story without participating in them.



That's not true, while it may not be done as a multi crossover event, Editorial has derailed, ruined, or interfered in many manga series.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2011)

DB continuing after Toriyama essentially ended it a half dozen times


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 14, 2011)

And that's on par with the crossover madness that's been going on at DC and Marvel over the last seven/eight years?

Really, guys?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2011)

who said anything about "on par"

Manga is not a shining light where there are no wrongs.  There are fuck ups on both sides, some are just bigger and louder.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 14, 2011)

Parallax did.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2011)

No he didn't


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 14, 2011)

He did when he implied that manga companies also have standard practices that screws with its readers and totally fucks up the accessibility of their books.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2011)

But they do.  It' not "on par" or anything but still manga companies are not perfect

Hell read the details on Raiko's lawsuit against Shogakukan, they did some REALLY stupid shit that fucked upa  lot of books


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 14, 2011)

I've never said they can do no wrong.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2011)

He did when he implied that manga companies also have standard practices that screws with its readers and totally fucks up the accessibility of their books.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 14, 2011)

Um, okay.  And?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 14, 2011)

a god damn brick wall

In any case you implied that manga companies do not also have standard practices that screws with its readers and totally fucks up the accessibility of their books.

Which is why you begin to say more people read manga because manga doesn;t screw up the way you say comics do as if it was a problem exclusive to comics


----------



## Penance (Jan 15, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6dyJiZizoU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Castiel (Jan 15, 2011)

That ending theme is probably my favorite thing of everything Elfman has ever composed


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 15, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> And that's on par with the crossover madness that's been going on at DC and Marvel over the last seven/eight years?
> 
> Really, guys?



I think dbz is worse.


----------



## Cromer (Jan 15, 2011)

Slice said:


> Recap pages, they solve so many problems.



Too bad DC doesn't do recap pages


----------



## Parallax (Jan 15, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> And that's on par with the crossover madness that's been going on at DC and Marvel over the last seven/eight years?
> 
> Really, guys?



Actually Zombie Powder and Shaman King come to mind


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 15, 2011)

Castiel said:


> That ending theme is probably my favorite thing of everything Elfman has ever composed



[YOUTUBE]HoK2d3mC3RA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Castiel (Jan 15, 2011)

VERY close second to me


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 15, 2011)

I like Returns' score best; it's way more dark and humorous.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 19, 2011)

So did any of you guys read the latest batgirl? I've always maintained that the series steadily chilled in the "not bad/pretty decent" zone, the latest issue was really good.

Sure, Damian pretty much takes the spotlight, but the premise of "Damian goes undercover as a regular kid only to discover he's awful at it" is great stuff.

And I think "I'm fifty percent sure I didn't hit a child" is my favorite Damian quote ever.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 19, 2011)

Batgirl is still mediocre and that's pretty unforgivable at this point especially since Stephanie's just one more of the plucky young blonds DC loves to spotlight.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 19, 2011)

What other plucky young blonds has DC been spotlighting recently? There's supergirl, and then the wonder girl one shot that just came out.

Also, have you read the most recent issues? It's gotten better. I'm not gonna argue that the series overall is anything more than shallow fun, but the most recent issue was really good.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 19, 2011)

I've read the latest one and it's average and boring.  I mean, the straight-guy/wise-guy routine with Damian isn't anything you can't get from any of the books he's featured in over the last, say, six months.



> What other plucky young blonds has DC been spotlighting recently? There's supergirl, and then the wonder girl one shot that just came out.



Those three are pretty much the only young superheroines that get any major push from DC.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 19, 2011)

> DC Comics’ Batwoman will undergo another delay, with the publisher moving the series’ debut from February to April.
> 
> The news was revealed online yesterday by retailers The Lauchpad and Comics on the Green. “What a surprise,” the latter wrote on the store’s Twitter account. “… It’s a JH Williams book, of course it’s not going to be on time.”
> 
> ...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 20, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> I've read the latest one and it's average and boring.  I mean, the straight-guy/wise-guy routine with Damian isn't anything you can't get from any of the books he's featured in over the last, say, six months.



There hasn't been any books that deal with him trying to be a normal kid. The closest thing he has had to interaction with kids his own age is with Colin in SoG. That's mainly what I liked about it. But to each his/her own.



> Those three are pretty much the only young superheroines that get any major push from DC.



Well thats just because they are all trinity characters. And Wonder Girl (outside of the recent oneshot) hasn't really gotten any kind of push outside of being in Teen Titans, which is one of DC's worst books.

Admittedly I was annoyed at Steph's push into Batgirl, since I liked her just fine as spoiler, but it seems like DC believes that the only way to push a character is to put a bat/super/ww symbol on them, and I don't think that applies just to girls.

I still think that Batgirl is a fun read though, provided you aren't looking for anything groundbreaking.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 20, 2011)

you can also put a ring on the character!


----------



## Cromer (Jan 20, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> you can also put a ring on the character!


 
Bats and S's are passe; putting a (green, yellow, red, blue, indigo, violet, orange, *black, white*) ring on a character is the new road to stardom in the DCU


----------



## Castiel (Jan 20, 2011)

Snyder's Detective going strong.  Finally read 872


----------



## illmatic (Jan 20, 2011)

I saw this coming but I didn't want to believe it would really happen.

JHW3 make the wait worth it.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 21, 2011)

> Okay, as some places on web have determined, Batwoman has been pushed back to April. I feel I should comment on this and get some facts straight. Some think that this book was to launch last July, this was never the case, this was speculation on the part of some. The book was also never to launch in November either. The zero issue which came out at that time was never in the original plans, but was done as a bit of a reminder as requested by DC, and to set the stage, this of course took out time of the work already in progress.
> 
> February had been decided on the launch date by the company with reservations about that from me. I felt that was a bit too soon in a realistic look at work progression. One of the reasons for this was that I had been seriously committed to making appearances around the world over this past year. I think maybe 3 months or more of work loss occurred during that time. I kept trying to point this out whenever discussions about schedule came up.
> 
> ...


----------



## Taleran (Jan 24, 2011)

Did this series move to Japan?


----------



## ghstwrld (Jan 24, 2011)

Max Gibson?

 *WHEN WILL THE HURTING STOP?*


----------



## illmatic (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks for this. Nice to hear JHW3's side of the story.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 29, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Max Gibson?
> 
> *WHEN WILL THE HURTING STOP?*



I'm cringing.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 29, 2011)

Caught up with Red Robin, still an decently enjoyable book.  Loved the whole Unternet world 

also end of Snyder's first Detective arc didn't blow me away but it was still solid.  Though what I am 100% looking forward to is next month's Gordon issue.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jan 31, 2011)

Castiel said:


> Caught up with Red Robin, still an decently enjoyable book.  Loved the whole Unternet world



Seeing Tam's "hero" character be an amped up version of Misty Knight endears her to me more than anything else ever could.

Also, Tim wielding an AK against captain boomerang was lulz.



> also end of Snyder's first Detective arc didn't blow me away but it was still solid.  Though what I am 100% looking forward to is next month's Gordon issue.



Admittedly, the "hero trips balls due to evil villain compound" bit is hardly new territory, but it was still pretty good. The "I want a piece of you!" part in particular was awesome.

And yea, Gordon's issue is gonna rock. No doubt.


----------



## Petes12 (Jan 31, 2011)

still say riddler was the best part of that


----------



## Z (Feb 3, 2011)

Why is Grayson getting his ass handed to him in almost every issue he's in


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 4, 2011)

superhero comics tend to have the hero getting beat up before they win the day... it's sort of how storytelling works


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Feb 4, 2011)

Z said:


> Why is Grayson getting his ass handed to him in almost every issue he's in



No one likes a carney not even Batman


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 5, 2011)

Having read Batman Beyond #2. . .

Beechen can't keep character worth a damn.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 5, 2011)

Batgirl #21


----------



## Castiel (Feb 5, 2011)

I KNOW I'm seen that guy before


----------



## Penance (Feb 5, 2011)

Quantum_Ranger said:


> I KNOW I'm seen that guy before



Isn't he the Gray Ghost?

EDIT: Yeah...I think he is...


----------



## Slice (Feb 5, 2011)

I should just forget this Batman: Beyond comics exists.

Its actually hurting to read that.


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 10, 2011)

Gleason! Tomasi! I have a reason to read Batman and Robin again!


----------



## Parallax (Feb 10, 2011)

I'd read it if it wasn't for Gleason's art.  Sorry kids not a fan.


----------



## Bender (Feb 10, 2011)

I haven't picked up a Batman book in weeks. Anything interesting happening in Batman inc?


----------



## Slice (Feb 10, 2011)

Bender said:


> I haven't picked up a Batman book in weeks. *Anything interesting happening* in Batman inc?



Three words.


Lord.

Death.

Man.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 11, 2011)

Batman and Robin was great. I have some issues with gleason's depiction of Grayson, but his settings are spectacular.


----------



## Zen-aku (Feb 11, 2011)

I am a Man, A manly Man.....but the "Movie Night" scene made me cry.....just.....Damn man....

Also i saw a fair question posted on....another site



> >master of every martial art
> >doesn't need to sleep
> >best detective in the whole world
> >feared by everyone
> ...


 i like bat man but its a fair question


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2011)

Repost a good /co/ thread


----------



## Zen-aku (Feb 11, 2011)

Quantum_Ranger said:


> Repost a good /co/ thread



alas an impossible task


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 11, 2011)

basically zen, batman is so fucking awesome that he gets away with being a mary sue. hes turned into one because of how much everyone loves him. wolverine is the same but it's kind of annoying with wolverine and it's not with batman.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2011)

Quick interviews with the artists of RoBW

Chris Sprouse

Frazer Irving

Georges Jeanty

Ryan Sook

Lee Garbett


----------



## Taleran (Feb 11, 2011)

Zen-aku said:


> I am a Man, A manly Man.....but the "Movie Night" scene made me cry.....just.....Damn man....
> 
> Also i saw a fair question posted on....another site
> 
> i like bat man but its a fair question



To put it very simply a Mary Sue would have countered the Omega Beams and Return of Bruce Wayne would not have happened.

Sure Batman is the dude everyone wants to be (except those that love their parents), but he falls constantly, what makes Batman awesome and endearing is that it does not ever end for any reason.


Hard Work saves the day in the end.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2011)

Tomasi interview


Taleran said:


> Hard Work saves the day in the end.



No matter what Masashi Kishimoto would have you believe


----------



## Castiel (Feb 11, 2011)

> *BATMAN & ROBIN #23
> 
> Written by JUDD WINICK
> 
> ...



God damn it Tomasi


will probably still get


----------



## Bender (Feb 11, 2011)

Only four words can describe this image:


BACK WITH A VENGEANCE 


Jason Todd will rob run and gun down anyone that's so much as holding a Batman action figure.


----------



## Penance (Feb 11, 2011)

Fuck it all...


----------



## Parallax (Feb 12, 2011)

Tomasi done fucked up


----------



## Bender (Feb 12, 2011)

I wonder...Will Talia reveal in B&R #23 that she boinked JT during Red Hood: Lost Days? That was some ridiculous random sexual shit Winnick.


----------



## Zen-aku (Feb 12, 2011)

man their dropping the ball so hard with todd


----------



## Parallax (Feb 12, 2011)

Actually to be fair I think Winnick is the only writer so far who can write Todd properly.


----------



## Bender (Feb 12, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Actually to be fair I think Winnick is the only writer so far who can write Todd properly.



Well aware, but it's upsetting as fuck to watch Talia's character dragged through the mud like Beechen did with Cassandra Cain.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2011)

what, talia cant have sex? this is somehow worse than all the fucked up shit she did to damian?


----------



## Bender (Feb 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> what, talia cant have sex?



Look at it this way: She screwed Bruce who is essentially her husband (well used to be) and fathered Damian who's a sibling to Tim Drake, Dick Grayson, Cass Cain, and Jason Todd. All the kids Bruce adopted. So yeah, she's pretty much a p*d*p**** man.



> this is somehow worse than all the fucked up shit she did to damian?



Yes.


----------



## Parallax (Feb 12, 2011)

Wait Jason is over 18 that doesn't make her a p*d*p****.  I'm confuzzled.


----------



## Bender (Feb 12, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Wait Jason is over 18 that doesn't make her a p*d*p****.  I'm confuzzled.



You sure?

I'm pretty sure he was 15. 

But even still Talia is technically like an ex-mom and screwing one of the sons of the Bat-family is just plain awkwards.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Feb 12, 2011)

Its a Bat Sex House all the butlers in the world will never clean that mess up.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 12, 2011)

shes just a cougar


----------



## Bender (Feb 12, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Its a Bat Sex House all the butlers in the world will never clean that mess up.




lol lol lol lol 

Amen


----------



## Taleran (Feb 12, 2011)

The best part is that personality wise Damian is basically Pre-Death Jason Todd with a different name.

oh and


----------



## Marco (Feb 13, 2011)

I stopped reading Batman around Battle for the Cowl. Have Return of Bruce Wayne and Batman Inc been good?


----------



## Taleran (Feb 13, 2011)

You basically stopped before the BEST part most refined part of GM's run.


----------



## Marco (Feb 13, 2011)

Battle for the Cowl just lost my interest completely. I've been meaning to get back into it.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 13, 2011)

Well that makes sense considering it wasn't written by Morrison and was entirely skippable


----------



## Parallax (Feb 13, 2011)

Yeah get back into Batman and Robin and catch up, it's great fun.


----------



## Bender (Feb 13, 2011)

Marco said:


> I stopped reading Batman around Battle for the Cowl. Have Return of Bruce Wayne and Batman Inc been good?



The Return of Bruce Wayne is the best effing part in Batman comics history. I can't believe you stopped at Battle of the cowl.  You pick up a Return of Bruce Wayne comic right now young man!


----------



## Parallax (Feb 13, 2011)

He kinda needs to read Batman and Robin first man


----------



## Bender (Feb 13, 2011)

^

Correction:

Read Batman & Robin then Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne


----------



## Slice (Feb 13, 2011)

When not reading in single issues i would say upon reaching the last trade of B&R (i know its not even out yet) to read the chapters of ROBW as "intermissions" to the last issues of B&R. IMO it works way better this way.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Actually to be fair I think Winnick is the only writer so far who can write Todd properly.



This.

Judd gets Generation Lost, and any comic starring Jason Todd. That's it.


----------



## FeiHong (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm not really feeling Batman: Incorporated arc


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 14, 2011)

uh oh

Gird your loins.


----------



## FeiHong (Feb 14, 2011)

I need to catch up on Batman and Robin, with Dick and Daimon. 
I read the ones that were related to the Return of Bruce Wayne


----------



## Taleran (Feb 14, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> uh oh
> 
> Gird your loins.



Oh come now we are not that hostile. . . . . . . . . . .


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 14, 2011)

not much has happened yet in inc to really be excited about anyway


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 14, 2011)

You guys are always super-defensive and willing to bend over backwards to whitewash whenever GM is the topic of discussion.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 14, 2011)

I think a good 70% of the arguing is because it's you doing taking the other stance than it is defending anything


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 14, 2011)

a lot of the things people complain about are kinda dumb though, makes it hard not to argue.


----------



## Taleran (Feb 14, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> You guys are always super-defensive and willing to bend over backwards to whitewash whenever GM is the topic of discussion.



I was joking


----------



## Parallax (Feb 14, 2011)

oh boy another Morrison argument in the making


----------



## Penance (Feb 14, 2011)

No.  Not yet...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2011)

So far INC is just highly enjoyable off the wall batman comics, and im enjoying it quite a bit. 

Also, obligatory "here's what I thought about Red Robin this month" post. Let down at the Catman cameo (seriously, I wanted to see Tim get his ass owned, not just have a antagonistic spar), but I loved seeing Tim do some actual detective work, as well as regroup with the Titans and not react to Damian so harshly.

Didn't really paint Cass in the best light though. Kid Flash literally says "It's just great having a plan again! Uhh, no offense Cass"


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 14, 2011)

Thats ok no one likes cass or thinks shes capable of anything but moping


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2011)

I like Cass , and she was an awesome leader back when she ran Young Justice with Tim as her second.

But I realize that ever since YJ ended she's been written....meh (putting it lightly) for a while now.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 14, 2011)

yj was like a billion years ago.

you know ive tried to read it... and i just can't. the art and the writing style are both so... old.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2011)

As much as I want to rage at you to read it anyway, I can understand. No matter how great I hear it is, no matter how many people I hear call it a "classic" or a "must read", there's a very low chance I'll be able to get into any comic released before the late 80s. 

But Young Justice (as well as Impulse, Robin, and Superboy) were a big part of what got me into comics. Hell, just 90s DC in general.

On another note, what exactly is Tomasi/Gleason's workload? It's kind of ridiculous that they're taking another break so soon after coming onto their title late.


----------



## Parallax (Feb 15, 2011)

The "it's too old" (for any medium be it books, movies, music, etc.) has honestly always baffled me.  To me good quality is good no matter what the period.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2011)

Parallax said:


> The "it's too old" (for any medium be it books, movies, music, etc.) has honestly always baffled me.  To me good quality is good no matter what the period.



For me it's mostly the art. I just can't get really into most comics before the 80s because the art style looks dated to me. Of course, there are exceptions. And of course, if the writing is good enough I can deal with the art.


----------



## Parallax (Feb 15, 2011)

I guess I can see that.  Iono I guess I can appreciate the look and style of art from each decade.


----------



## mow (Feb 15, 2011)

> March sees the end of three Batman related titles (with January 2011 sales):
> 
> * Azrael (7,825)
> * Batman Confidential (13,116)
> * Batman: Streets of Gotham (21,592)


----------



## Castiel (Feb 15, 2011)

Azrael I totally saw coming, but I am pleasantly surprised they let it last as long as it did.  Led to some interesting stories though.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 15, 2011)

yet Gotham City Sirens continues.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 15, 2011)

No justice in this world


----------



## Parallax (Feb 15, 2011)

And nothing of value was lost


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2011)

I'm kinda bummed about SoG, but it's been dragging since the Zsasz arc. Overall though, I just wish Paul Dini would go back to writing one-two shots.


----------



## Castiel (Feb 15, 2011)

I blame Tower Prep


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 15, 2011)

i had to look that up. eww live action kids show


----------



## Castiel (Feb 16, 2011)

It's what Dini is putting all his effort in nowadays.


----------



## C-No (Feb 16, 2011)

I just read TT# 91 for the first time and saw Damian with Rose. They seem almost like siblings to me, does anyone else think so?


----------



## C-No (Feb 16, 2011)

Double post.


----------



## FeiHong (Feb 17, 2011)

Is Azrael a good read? and Gotham Sirens was it?


----------



## Castiel (Feb 17, 2011)

yes and no


----------



## Parallax (Feb 17, 2011)

Both were no bueno

so good riddance


----------



## Castiel (Feb 17, 2011)

I liked the political stuff Nicieza was going for quite a bit, and Hine's insane conspiracy stuff was a hoot


----------



## C-No (Feb 17, 2011)

I guess my question was ignored.


----------



## FeiHong (Feb 17, 2011)

What's Azrael about?


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 17, 2011)

C-No said:


> I just read TT# 91 for the first time and saw Damian with Rose. They seem almost like siblings to me, does anyone else think so?



they've got a lot in common, and she makes a good character for damian to connect to, which makes her about the most interesting shes ever been. of course i normally hate her like no other, so its easy to go up from there.


----------



## C-No (Feb 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> they've got a lot in common, and she makes a good character for damian to connect to, which makes her about the most interesting shes ever been. of course i normally hate her like no other, so its easy to go up from there.


 Thank u. Maybe she can help Damian stop bein such a little dick(not grayson)


----------



## Cromer (Feb 19, 2011)

C-No said:


> Thank u. Maybe she can help Damian stop bein such a little dick(not grayson)



If 'Mr. Nice Guy' himself has taken Damian as far as he can with the dickery, I doubt a borderline psychopath like Ravager could do anything except make things worse.


----------



## Cromer (Feb 19, 2011)

FeiHong said:


> What's Azrael about?


Wouldn't you like to know...


----------



## mow (Feb 19, 2011)

On the scale of Fucking Awesome to Ultra Badass, how much win would Cassandra Cain be if she took the mantle of Nightwing?

I mainly ask this due to this:


----------



## Cromer (Feb 19, 2011)

mow said:


> On the scale of Fucking Awesome to Ultra Badass, how much win would Cassandra Cain be if she took the mantle of Nightwing?
> 
> I mainly ask this due to this:



You mean...make Nightwing a legacy character, and thus a permanent lieutenant to Batman? Can I vote 'DO NOT WANT'?


----------



## mow (Feb 19, 2011)

Or, utilizing a character that is not being used (and obviously wont be used for a long time by the original character), by reviving a great character that is currently not used/horrendously used, and not able to use her rightful robes?


----------



## Cromer (Feb 19, 2011)

mow said:


> Or, utilizing a character that is not being used (and obviously wont be used for a long time by the original character), by reviving a great character that is currently not used/horrendously used, and not able to use her rightful robes?


Don't get me wrong, I love Cassandra. But I think it would be a mark of respect for her to find her on identity, _by herself,_ without being loaded down with the robes of a guy who, let's be honest, never even had that much contact with her, all things considered.

By all means bring Cass back (at the hands of someone who understands her, mnd you), but the only legacy characters in the Batman Family should be Batman and Robin.

That's my two cents.


----------



## mow (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh no mate, I'm totally with you, but this is DC and this is Didio, what are the chances of them treating CC like her own character? >_< Also, I think Nightwing becoming a legacy (same way Robin/Batgirl) has becomes is a testament to the character. Not like it would happen, but under a good writer it would


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 19, 2011)

mow said:


> On the scale of Fucking Awesome to Ultra Badass, how much win would *Cassandra Cain be if she took the mantle of Nightwing*?



Someone months ago penciled such a design on deviantART:





> I mainly ask this due to this:



Hmm. If THAT's the Nightwing costume, it's just her old Batgirl costume without the mask.

Though, she already has the Kasumi costume.



It wouldn't be that hard to modify it slightly and have it include a Bat-emblem.

As for the Culver's Bat-family. . .

Damn. He even got Onyx. ONYX. In Hub City? DAMN.

Give it to the man.

Honestly, as long as Cassandra Cain is back, characterized properly, and kept the hell away from that BASTARD Beechen, I'll be happy.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 19, 2011)

i dont really like that kasumi costume.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i dont really like that kasumi costume.



Wouldn't be too hard to be modified and retooled for better aesthetic appeal.


----------



## Cromer (Feb 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i dont really like that kasumi costume.


I fap over the Kasumi costume.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 19, 2011)

My god, Culver included Arrowette?

Please tell me he's involved in Batman Inc. without anything stopping him!


----------



## Penance (Feb 19, 2011)

Sure she could be Nightwing...


----------



## Cromer (Feb 19, 2011)

Has anyone here got their mitts on Batman & Robin 20?


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 19, 2011)

Magna Defender said:


> My god, Culver included Arrowette?
> 
> Please tell me he's involved in Batman Inc. without anything stopping him!



i actually don't really like the way he drew a lot of those characters... but connor hawke makes for a pretty good batman corps member. i mean i like most of the basic designs, just not his actual art style.


----------



## Penance (Feb 19, 2011)

Red Robin without the cowl, though?  NEVAR!


----------



## Cromer (Feb 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i actually don't really like the way he drew a lot of those characters... but connor hawke makes for a pretty good batman corps member



Whatever happened to ol' Connor?

Anyway, I like the Acro-Bat design. Hope he makes it into Inc. Pity Flashpoint means that there is ZERO probability of the 'BatFlash!' but that's them kibbles.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 19, 2011)

eh batflash is lame haha


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 19, 2011)

Penance said:


> Red Robin without the cowl, though?  NEVAR!



ugh i hate the cowl


----------



## Cromer (Feb 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> ugh i hate the cowl


BLASPHEMY!!!

Truthfully, the whole thing continually has me confusing him for Doc MidNite, and that ain't good for lil' Timmy Wayne.


----------



## mow (Feb 19, 2011)

Magna Defender said:


> Someone months ago penciled such a design on deviantART:



I forgot to mention, mate, that's a lovely bit of work, what's your da? Mine's moejo.deviantart.com


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 19, 2011)

moejo haha, thats awesome


----------



## mow (Feb 20, 2011)

I try xD It was my nickname all through out college to this day I think it's the fro meets my unbashful love for Mojo Jojo 

@ bat inc article:

*The Bat-Ape and Robin of Gorilla City!
Tawky Tawny, the Batcat of Fawcett City!*

Someone get this to Morrison pek


----------



## Parallax (Feb 20, 2011)

Where the hell is my inc #3 issue?


----------



## Cromer (Feb 20, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Where the hell is my inc #3 issue?


Maybe Morrison saw Cuiver's redesigns and thought 'heck with it, we have to integrate this!'

If only. I still haven't read #2 yet, shipping is fucking me in the ass.


----------



## mow (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't even bother with trying to ship books to the Dubai, it's an utter nightmare. So I just sit and linger waiting for TPB to come out here, usually several months after US release =/ 

Doesn't help that only 2 bookstores that carry comics over here: Borders and Kinokuniya. While the latter has an excellent collection, both are horrendous in terms of getting books I order (average is 2-3 month for any book, comic or otherwise)

Pair that with Borders filing for bankruptcy, and I'll totally screwed. Guess I'll just have to pick up books when I travel abroad along with LPs from now...

I plan to sign up for Marvel/DC digital, but only when I can afford an Ipad, which ain't gonna happen for a while.


----------



## Parallax (Feb 20, 2011)

wow there's a Kinokuniya in Dubai?  Holy shit that's great.  I love that place since I can buy the newest One Piece volumes the week if not day of their Japanese release.  Plus some of the best manga/anime/video game art books at premo prices.

and it's terrible that I'm loving Borders filing bankruptcy.  Only because there are a few shops in my area that are going down and I can get books at great prices.


----------



## mow (Feb 20, 2011)

Man, I do not go to that store anymore. The first time I went I literary blew a 1000  dollars on books. I have 0 control when I'm in bookstores/Record stores. I have to have someone to smack me when I'm in them. I'm not even slightly joking about this. It's horrible. Last time I was in london I spent 500 pounds on LPs, only 2 hrs after arrival. I was there for 2 weeks and all I had on me after that was 50 pounds . thank odin I already bought all my gig tickets in advance. Also; PRAISE BE TO TESCO.

But yeah, Love Kinok, excellent layout, superb collections, one of my fav bookstores ever. I'm totally with you on the glee! Gonna be looting their outlests here once the flailing begins


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 20, 2011)

There are Kinokuniya stores outside of Japan? Wow. I assumed they were pretty small time since their stores are pretty small.


----------



## mow (Feb 20, 2011)

Oh the one here is gigantic! Takes up about 68,000 square feet of Dubai Mall (largest mall in the world, because everyone in Dubai lacks big penises, obviously ). It's literary bookworm heaven in that place. The design is so minimalist, they play ambient/ Neo classical music all day long and the lack of windows makes you really lose track of time.

They have everything planned to lure me in, the conniving bastards.


----------



## Parallax (Feb 20, 2011)

There's one in Downtown LA, in Little Tokyo.  There's a two story one in San Francisco too.  They're awesome, since I can buy great manga at cheaper prices.  Being able to buy the JJBA Canon or Hokuto no Ken in its entirety is superb.  Not to mention their cool fashion magazines.

the one in LA is pretty small but man do they cram so much in the space.  I was able to buy some Murakami books for my Japanese speaking friends.  

They also  have Light Novels, which I only care about because they have Kara no Kyoukai <3


----------



## Bergelmir (Feb 20, 2011)

Parallax said:


> There's one in Downtown LA, in Little Tokyo.  There's a two story one in San Francisco too.  They're awesome, since I can buy great manga at cheaper prices.  Being able to buy the JJBA Canon or Hokuto no Ken in its entirety is superb.  Not to mention their cool fashion magazines.
> 
> the one in LA is pretty small but man do they cram so much in the space.  I was able to buy some Murakami books for my Japanese speaking friends.
> 
> They also  have Light Novels, which I only care about because they have Kara no Kyoukai <3





mow said:


> Oh the one here is gigantic! Takes up about 68,000 square feet of Dubai Mall (largest mall in the world, because everyone in Dubai lacks big penises, obviously ). It's literary bookworm heaven in that place. The design is so minimalist, they play ambient/ Neo classical music all day long and the lack of windows makes you really lose track of time.
> 
> They have everything planned to lure me in, the conniving bastards.



That sounds freaking awesome! The ones around where I live are the size of a single classroom. 

Thankfully, we have Junkudo stores which are pretty sweet.


----------



## Cromer (Feb 20, 2011)

I only went to Dubai the once, and I never got in Kinokuniya 

At least you have a decent chance of getting TPB's. I, on the other hand, am a Nigerian. Three months ago I went into a bookshop and saw their 'new' imports: stuff like Absolute Final Crisis and the first Irredeemable TPB.  If I weren't filthy rich, I'd be hopelessly out of date (or I'd take the time to search out those elusive havens of illegal comic downloading, more likely). As it is, if I knew where I could download Inc #2, fuck honesty. I'd download that shit.


----------



## Parallax (Feb 20, 2011)

hearing these stories makes me really grateful about living in the US and having it pretty easy to get these comics at any time.


----------



## C-No (Feb 20, 2011)

Dog Rapist said:


> If 'Mr. Nice Guy' himself has taken Damian as far as he can with the dickery, I doubt a borderline psychopath like Ravager could do anything except make things worse.



Well she can relate to him. "Mr. Nice Guy" can't help him because he has no idea why he is that way. Ravager is more like him and has made changes about herself, so she could help him better than Dick can. He even shows her more respect than he does his own brother.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 21, 2011)

mow said:


> I forgot to mention, mate, that's a lovely bit of work, what's your da? Mine's moejo.deviantart.com



I search deviantARTs for various fan art.

I've always debated on getting myself a DA account for my photography but refrained out of fear of being plagiarized.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 21, 2011)

So I totally missed the post on Culver's Bat Family, just wanted to say how crazy awesome it is.

Admittedly, I don't like the idea of Nightwing as a legacy role (would rather Cass go the Red Robin route and come up with her own "Nightwing" like role), but everything else is just great.

Jason Bard as a "talent scout and overall james bond type"? 

Arrowette as...anything?

Connor Hawke bat deputized?

Sign me the fuck up.


----------



## Penance (Feb 22, 2011)

Dwayne McDuffie has just died...


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 22, 2011)

that's terrible news


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Feb 22, 2011)

Complications from surgery.

Damn.


----------



## illmatic (Mar 2, 2011)

The colored Batwoman preview was sooo .


----------



## The man with a pigeon (Mar 3, 2011)

Just read 19 issues of Streets of Gotham. Never was I so underwhelmed by a series. Dear god, the way Dini handled Damian vs. Zsasz was so bad.

Well, at least Nguyen does pretty art. I would appreaciate if he did more stuff in that kid style of his.


----------



## shit (Mar 3, 2011)

I liked that sidekick kid they made for Damian in Streets


----------



## Castiel (Mar 3, 2011)

Heh, that story with Jim Gordon Jr. went the exact opposite way I expected it too

also

Sunglasses at night


----------



## Penance (Mar 3, 2011)

Kilogram said:


> Heh, that story with Jim Gordon Jr. went the exact opposite way I expected it too
> 
> also
> 
> Sunglasses at night



You talking about Dexter Gordon?


----------



## Castiel (Mar 3, 2011)

For a half second I thought he was serious about the waitress but I lold hard at the toilet paper


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 3, 2011)

Who's writing Detective Comics now? I haven't picked it up since Daniels took over.

Not that I'm against him, but not high priority to read for me.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 3, 2011)

Daniel took over Batman, not 'tec

Current writer is Scott Snyder aka "one of two new writers I was the most confidence will become a big star" (other being Nick Spenser)


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 3, 2011)

Ah. My mistake.

How is the current run?


----------



## Rod (Mar 5, 2011)

*Flashpoint: Batman, Knight of Vengeance.*



Covers: *Dave Johnson*
Writer: *Brian Azzarello*
Art: *Eduardo Risso

*

Ouch. Thats some heavy weight team.


(Already separating investment for this. )


----------



## Castiel (Mar 5, 2011)

indeed

also I read new Teen Titans as part of a cross with Red Robin and I have to say felt bad for Damian by the end


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 5, 2011)

Kilogram said:


> indeed
> 
> also I read new Teen Titans as part of a cross with Red Robin and I have to say felt bad for Damian by the end



Me too! 

Also, did you noticed how it catapulted the Tim/Conner Bromance into near Blue and Gold levels?

You'll always be *MY* Robin
And You'll always be my clone boy.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 6, 2011)

Not even Bruce and Clark have that bromance. . .


----------



## Bender (Mar 6, 2011)

On Batman Confidential #53 

I swear the league makes it so easy for Batman to stomp them out.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 7, 2011)

1.21 Gigawatts said:


> Not even Bruce and Clark have that bromance. . .



Like I said, blue and gold levels.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 8, 2011)

ITS BACK BABY!



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Castiel (Mar 8, 2011)

fucking finally :axel:


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 8, 2011)

that motorcycle to the face just makes me laugh


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 8, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> that motorcycle to the face just makes me laugh



Definitely. That guy's face is hilarious.

EDIT:Why They Endure: Pro's on Tim Drake's rise up the bat ranks

Pretty interesting article that breaks down why Tim's been such a successful character over the years, and it was interesting to note that Jack Drake was doomed to death even before Meltzer decided to use him in Identity Crisis.

There are also similar articles on Aquaman and the FF


----------



## Parallax (Mar 9, 2011)

fuckin took long enough to come back

better have been worth the wait


----------



## illmatic (Mar 9, 2011)

> Haven’t made it to the comic shop yet today? Fret not! For those of you who won’t haven’t seen the special sneak preview of BATWOMAN #1 that’s running in the back of today’s issues, you can see it here!
> 
> BATWOMAN #1 is the new series that places Katy Kane in the starring role of an ongoing series. Written by J.H. Williams III and W. Haden Blackman with art by J.H. Williams III and Amy Reeder, this premiere issue will be one that you won’t want to miss



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 9, 2011)

I can't speak spanish :|

what do you guys make of inc's opening pages?


----------



## Parallax (Mar 9, 2011)

Hey I can speak spanish 

good issue


----------



## Taleran (Mar 10, 2011)

Marvel May have Tron covers but DC they go more into it.



> Take a moment from drooling over issue 3’s gorgeous art, and gaze into the future with Chris Burnham’s cover to BATMAN INCORPORATED #8, which involves a virtual reality murder mystery only Batman can crack.


----------



## G.O.A.T. (Mar 10, 2011)

I really don't like this book. It's just Brave and the Bold. Is he just gonna go to different countries and recruit a new Batman or is there gonna be an overarching storyline? I hate the art too.

What happened to that Batman: Dark Knight comic? The one that has Bruce in Gotham. That only has one issue out.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

There's an overarching plot, though we don't know too much about it yet.

IDK what happened to the dark knight but I checked out the first issue and I can't say I'll care if it never comes out again.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 10, 2011)

It was a good issue, and I think the art fits the tone of the book, but currently imo 'Tec and B & R are better.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

honestly i didnt care too much for snyder's first 3 issues on tec, except for jock's art. Not that it was bad at all, I just dont entirely understand why everyone's blown away by it.


----------



## illmatic (Mar 10, 2011)

> Even as DC Comics previewed Batwoman #1 on Wednesday, word circulated online that the publisher has again canceled orders for the first two issues for resolicitation at a later date.
> 
> The move, revealed Tuesday in an email to retailers and confirmed by Comics on the Green and The Launchpad, marks the second delay in as many months. The highly anticipated series, by J.H. Williams III, W. Haden Blackman and Amy Reeder, previously had been set to debut in February. But in January, the publisher rescheduled the first issue for April — a date that appears in sneak peek included in this week’s DC titles.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 10, 2011)

You all crazy Paquette is awesome and is drawing the pants off everyone at DC who is not named Williams, Manke, Francavilla but right now is as good as all of em.



> I really don't like this book. It's just Brave and the Bold. Is he just gonna go to different countries and recruit a new Batman or is there gonna be an overarching storyline? I hate the art too.



Its pretty clear from what Bruce talks about that there is a reason for all of this. The Return also supports that.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

Plus the whole opening scene in the UK.

BTW you forgot Gleason, Tal.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 10, 2011)

No I didn't


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

He's just as good as Mahnke imo.


----------



## illmatic (Mar 10, 2011)

DC get it together.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

DC has serious problems with art, constant delays and fill-ins :|

I'm willing to wait for Williams though.

... who wants to bet on which will come out first: Batwoman 1 or Spider-man Turn off the Dark?


----------



## Taleran (Mar 10, 2011)

I think DC has larger problems with writers.

If it isn't Johns or Morrison it doesn't really sell.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

As a general rule their GL and Batman books are solid and sell well, but that's kinda true. How does Action Comics sell? I love that book right now, I hope Cornell can keep that quality up when he starts writing superman in it.


----------



## illmatic (Mar 10, 2011)

Action Comics sales are in 30 -33 thousand range

898 sold estimated 31,935


----------



## Parallax (Mar 10, 2011)

Paquette is a good artist, not really the best right now but he's solid

Inc is still the best Bat book coming out

only 'tec can compare at this point.


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2011)

I kinda like Gleason more than Paquette, I like his style, BUT Paquette's work on Inc. blows all of his old shit away.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

I cant think of any other comic I've seen Paquette on, besides that issue of RoBW


----------



## Taleran (Mar 10, 2011)

Seven Soldiers Bulleteer


----------



## Castiel (Mar 10, 2011)

Why They Endure: Pro's on Tim Drake's rise up the bat ranks


----------



## Parallax (Mar 10, 2011)

I find Gleason's art atrocious


----------



## ghstwrld (Mar 10, 2011)

> Even as DC Comics previewed Batwoman #1 on Wednesday, word circulated online that the publisher has again canceled orders for the first two issues for resolicitation at a later date.



So, um, what's the point of previewing the book the week they're supposed to release it when the know they aren't going to do so for many months?

 WTF?


----------



## Parallax (Mar 10, 2011)

Editorial fumble on someone's part I can only guess.

I'm tired of waiting for this series, I've officially lost all interest now.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I find Gleason's art atrocious



ym is atrocious


----------



## Parallax (Mar 10, 2011)

what the hell is ym


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

your mom, naturally


----------



## Parallax (Mar 10, 2011)

You're a clever guy Pete


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 10, 2011)

guess that abbreviation's less common than i thought.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 11, 2011)

Also, El Sombrero was the best part of the Club of Villains and I am glad Morrison didn't really throw him away that early.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 11, 2011)

He's died twice now and I have no idea who he's supposed to be at this point. Remember when he was Mayhew?


----------



## Taleran (Mar 11, 2011)

He was an actual villain Joker 'killed' him during RIP. Manhew was just improving.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 11, 2011)

He was my favorite design out of all of them, I'm glad that he's actually got a pretty sweet gig in this mini arc.


----------



## illmatic (Mar 13, 2011)

> Well, its obvious to many that Batwoman’s release has been pushed back yet again. This was not our choice, and as to why, I’m not at liberty to really discuss. So the release may be farther away now, but be assured that work is still commencing. The upside to a later release means that gives us plenty of time to get a lot of issues done. Amy has turned in some variant cover work for the series and has shown us thumbnails for issue 6, looks really nice. So while I’m moving forward, she is too, we’ll have my arc done and hers well on it’s way to completion by the time this thing rolls out. The only real downside is that solicits were pulled on us twice, making readers heads spin, wish that didn’t happen, but it has, lets just make the best of it. I’m fast approaching the middle of issue 3’s interior art, Haden and I’ve started working on script for issue 8, the first 5 covers are done, and Dave has had issue 2 in his hands for his special magic touch.
> 
> Its a bit ironic that the release has been pushed back again considering that DC decided to show preview pages this same week. I too was going to be showing the cover to issue 3 in a couple weeks for when that issue was to be solicited, now that solicit isn’t happening at this time. But I’m going to show it anyway right now, to keep spirits up.





> Here is the rough sketch done for editorial approval...







> Here’s the black and white version. You can see quite few elements were added or altered based on the sketched rough above.






> Now the colored version by me, using photoshop. At this stage I had planned on adding that zigzag design motif that is indicated in the rough sketch. But after seeing it this far along, it just seemed wiser to keep the design a little more simple. I’ve been feeling that way about most of the new covers for the series so far. I’m not sure if has to do with the psychology of them, being more on the horror side. But it just feels right to leave off some of the flourishes I tend to do, this time around.






> And here is the logo. This was a bit tough to figure out properly because I didn’t want it to be intrusive, but it needed to stand out too, graphically. And there were some space limitations to contend with as well.





Source -


----------



## Proxy (Mar 13, 2011)

From such a rough sketch to that. That's some talent. Looking forward to that Batwoman.


----------



## G.O.A.T. (Mar 13, 2011)

Am I the only one that found the Batbooks more interesting when Bruce was dead?


----------



## Parallax (Mar 14, 2011)

Possibly maybe


----------



## Parallax (Mar 14, 2011)

At the same time Bruce is like in only one bat title so iono I mean Dick is still getting most of the Batman spotlight.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 14, 2011)

That is tough choice.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 14, 2011)

I think it could be since the last half of Bruceless Batman was all the pieces that Morrison was working on over the past few years were finally coming together and paying off.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 14, 2011)

Yeah but Return of Bruce Wayne was REALLY REALLY good and Batman through when the Black Glove was revealed was REALLY good.


----------



## Rod (Mar 14, 2011)

Truth be told, the world was less awesome without Bruce. 


Thus, ppl trying to ressurect, going back thru time, turning Black-Lantern, & etc..all this stuff. 

Can't miss this cool.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 14, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Yeah but Return of Bruce Wayne was REALLY REALLY good and Batman through when the Black Glove was revealed was REALLY good.



That's why I could go either way really.

Though the bruce-less Batman & Robin (7-15) issues were pretty great.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 15, 2011)

Something I never realized was the inherent countdown in Morrison's Batman work.


The Average arc of Morrison's Batman was 4 issues.
"                                        " Batman & Robin was 3.
"                                        " Batman Inc is  2.


I could see this ending in a long string of single issues, erupting all over the world in all the places that Bruce has visited as the overarching villain strikes and then ending in a giant final issue.

Or put differently


----------



## Parallax (Mar 15, 2011)

Possibly that might have been unintentional?


----------



## Taleran (Mar 15, 2011)

Well yeah that is always possible.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 15, 2011)

I thought it was supposed to turn into a longer arc to end it. i dont think a bunch of one shots would be very satisfying.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 15, 2011)

a bunch of one shots that tie together as a larger arc could work.  Ala those 4 City issues that Hickman did in the FF not too long ago.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 15, 2011)

i dont really think those worked all that well as one story


----------



## Parallax (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm pretty sure it did


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 17, 2011)

Ah, Williams III.

Lovely.


----------



## illmatic (Mar 18, 2011)

*C2E2 2011: DC Nation* - BATWOMAN


> A fan asks when we'll see Batwoman. DiDio says they have several issues in the can, and they just wanted to position the title for later in the year as far as finding a good time to really sell it.
> 8:22
> But DiDio is adamant: "We've got to stop delivering late books." The joke's on DC if they don't get their delivery under control. "We have to build our reader loyalty on the periodical side ... we have to be in month-in, month-out."



Source:


----------



## Parallax (Mar 18, 2011)

Someone should have given that memo to the Batman Inc team :|


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 19, 2011)

I can't imagine the time Williams III, McKean, or Mack takes to fully create and finish an art piece.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 19, 2011)

Keith Giffen had this great quote about his thoughts on late artists and I really wish I could dig it up because it's exactly how I feel on the subject.


----------



## illmatic (Mar 19, 2011)

_Snyder said that Cassandra Cain will return in the first issue of Gates of Gotham._ 
~ C2E2 2011: DC Universe

May 2011 is the first issue release date.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 19, 2011)

illmatic said:


> _Snyder said that Cassandra Cain will return in the first issue of Gates of Gotham._
> ~ C2E2 2011: DC Universe
> 
> May 2011 is the first issue release date.



If it's more than a cameo and consistently and substantially more than one issue, I'd be writing the whole "FUCK YES" in size 7 and bold font.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 21, 2011)

That entire premise behind that mini sounds amazing.

Batman, Owlman (Raymond Jr.), Red Robin, I ching, and Cass Cain in a history spanning mystery by Scott Snyder?

Consider me sold.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 21, 2011)

I'll reserve my judgment until I read the thing.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 21, 2011)

Well of course. I'm not saying it's awesome (because of course I haven't read it yet), I'm just saying the premise sounds good enough that I'll definitely buy the first issue and see how it is.

However, I'm not optimistic about Cass's "return", since going into anything Cass related with optimism is setting up for sadness. 

But what gives me some small measure of hope is that they're outright stating it's her return at a big convention. With her cameo in Red Robin, they made it a point not to make any big announcement, and didn't let Fabian say anything other than "she's in the issue". Probably because they didn't want fans to get all excited then let down.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 21, 2011)

I'll be reading and buying the issue, of course.

*looks over at his box of Cassandra Cain guest-appearances*


----------



## Z (Mar 21, 2011)

What's going on in Sirens these days?

Is Harley back with Joker?


----------



## illmatic (Mar 21, 2011)

lettering of preview for Batman Inc #4 looks odd.


*Spoiler*: __ 



PAGE 2

Kathy: That's Mrs. Kane to you Agent 33.
Nathan left me everything in his will and I already own a circus.
Why would I be interested in working for another intelligence agency?

PAGE 4

Agent 33: Ummm... Because you love danger?
Because you have the saddest, most beautiful eyes of sapphire. And well...
Because I'd give anything I own to work with a legend such as you.

Kathy: Hm.

Agent 33: Agent Zero assembled an international team of experts. The best of the best.
The man is a genius.
And he asked for you personally.

Kathy: Hmm.
What the hell is this?

Agent 33: Spyral.
They call us Spyral since Zero rebuilt the Department (obscured)
May I ask, what exactly are you doing Mrs. Kane?

Kathy: I'm doing what any grieving widow would do on the day she buried her grieving husband.
I plan to flirt with death until his bony little heart breaks in two.
Stand aside Agent 33!

PAGE 5

TV News: Time for rare footage of Gotham's caped crimebusters in action against Lew Moxon and his gang of aerial bandits.

Kathy: That's it. 




Someone posted what it says in the whited speech bubbles that are irritating to read.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 21, 2011)

Z said:


> What's going on in Sirens these days?
> 
> Is Harley back with Joker?



She's breaking in Arkham Asylum to kill Joker (after having those "I WASTED MY LIFE!" reflections) and Ivy and Catwoman are trying to stop her.


----------



## Taleran (Mar 23, 2011)

Damn son that was so much win Burnham knocks the art out of the park so hard.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 23, 2011)

Both Burnham and Morrison knocked it out of the park. This is definitely the best issue so far, loved the flashback sequences, particularly Robin punching his palm (what exactly would you call that?).


----------



## illmatic (Mar 23, 2011)

Batwoman vs Batwoman 




> Codename: OROBORO



Its always some kind of "ultimate weapon"


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 23, 2011)

wasnt really a team up exactly


----------



## illmatic (Mar 23, 2011)

I didn't see Flamebird. She was probably in school during the events of the issue.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 24, 2011)

The post-IC Kathy Kane origin story. . .

Morrison, you crazy bastard.


----------



## Bender (Mar 25, 2011)

I just mentally thought up the most ridiculous name for Cassandra Cain and thought I'd share it with you guys. What do you think of the name, Black Hawk?


----------



## illmatic (Mar 25, 2011)

I think one of the Birds of Prey members is already is using the name. 

The  blonde helicopter pilot chick

EDIT: Added pic with name

Lady Blackhawk


----------



## Bender (Mar 25, 2011)

^

Die she should then. 

The name fits Cassandra better


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 25, 2011)

Bender said:


> ^
> 
> Die she should then.
> 
> The name fits Cassandra better



Lady Blackhawk is awesome. She shoots bitches, chugs brew, and doesn't afraid of anything.

DC should be able to come up with an original name for Cass Cain.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 25, 2011)

Wouldn't count on it after Red Robin.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Wouldn't count on it after Red Robin.



Yea.....

Red Robin...sorta makes sense in that he was originally conceived as an adult robin, which is essentially what Tim is at this point. Although I'll be the first to admit it's on the low end when it comes to name/costume changes.

With Cass though, someone just needs to come up with a whole new name for her. Perhaps something more rooted in the martial arts section of the DCU?


----------



## Bender (Mar 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Lady Blackhawk is awesome. She shoots bitches, chugs brew, and doesn't afraid of anything.



Doesn't afraid of anything?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yea.....
> 
> Red Robin...sorta makes sense in that he was originally conceived as an adult robin, which is essentially what Tim is at this point. Although I'll be the first to admit it's on the low end when it comes to name/costume changes.
> 
> With Cass though, someone just needs to come up with a whole new name for her. Perhaps something more rooted in the martial arts section of the DCU?



Other than her undercover days with the JLE as Kasumi?


----------



## Bender (Mar 25, 2011)

IMO

Kinda hard to come up with a new name for Cass


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 25, 2011)

1.21 Gigawatts said:


> Other than her undercover days with the JLE as Kasumi?



Kasumi sounds good, but it's kind of a random name. By that I mean, why did she even take up that name in the first place? Also, and this is just me being nitpicky, I don't like her having a japanese codename when she's clearly chinese.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 27, 2011)

I don't think Cassandra's mother was originally conceived to be Lady Shiva, and JLE took place before the final storyline of her monthly.


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 28, 2011)

Kasumi is a name no one will be able to remember. I mean, I forget what it is after every time you bring it up CBG :\


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 28, 2011)

1.21 Gigawatts said:


> I don't think Cassandra's mother was originally conceived to be Lady Shiva, and JLE took place before the final storyline of her monthly.



Oh yea that's right. Before that I guess she was just "asian". 

Still:



Petes12 said:


> Kasumi is a name no one will be able to remember. I mean, I forget what it is after every time you bring it up CBG :\



This.

I honestly wouldn't mind if she just went by Cassandra Cain. With Bruce Wayne publicly announcing that he's balls deep in the bat business, its not like she'd be jeopardizing the secret.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 28, 2011)

Though, I'm not sure whether Bruce would like to give the public a chance to connect the dots between David Cain and Cassandra.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 28, 2011)

1.21 Gigawatts said:


> Though, I'm not sure whether Bruce would like to give the public a chance to connect the dots between David Cain and Cassandra.



Why would anyone think that in the first place, is David Cain even well known by the public? Also, I feel like it'd be really hard to prove that.

I just don't want Cass to get a stupid code name (Like the name of a burger chain...), and I feel like since she doesn't even give a crap about her "secret identity" what's the point?


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Mar 29, 2011)

In Dark Knight related press releases Those Boy Wonders at Warner Bros have made the dumest of the dumb choices ever

---------

After THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, He Will Reboot!
Published on: Mar 29, 2011 12:04:21 PM CDT 

Beaks here...

We've been hearing rumors to this effect for a while, but now the L.A. Times' intrepid Ben Fritz has confirmed it: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES will be the final chapter in Christopher Nolan's Batman run. Once he's finished, the character will be rebooted (with Nolan's input), and, most likely, attached to a narrative that will lead to a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie in 2013.

Fritz got all of this from WB president Jeff Robinov, who also briefly discussed the development of FLASH and WONDER WOMAN movies (the latter being wholly separate from David E. Kelley's goofy-looking TV adaptation). It sounds like they're hoping to mimic the Marvel strategy, which has been all about assembling THE AVENGERS for a 2012 release (production on that film is already underway). Nothing shocking there.

More interesting to me is Devin Faraci's observation that Nolan's THE DARK KNIGHT RISES will be the first time we see a filmmaker's superhero run reach a definitive end. While I'm told there's some nervousness (if not outright displeasure) about this at WB, there's very little they can do: this is Nolan's show, and he's going to finish it on his terms.

Which means WB will be watching the box office returns for Sony's THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN very closely...

Source: 

Which means That Nolans Batman would be tweaked to fit into the crossover for The Justice League film thats being worked on blurrrrrgh as would urrrrrgh


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 29, 2011)

They don't even know what they're doing in the JLA comic and they're going to try for a movie? :|


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Mar 29, 2011)

Yup... Petes12. They are

Its gonna break down like this

Wonder Woman
The Flash
Green Lantern
Superman (Man of Steel)
Batman

Film Series are now gonna cross over into each other for The Justice League Film ala what Marvel is doing with: The Incredible Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America for The Avengers Film .

Its annoying but what can you do except shrug your head I hope nothing but the best of luck for Nolan after The Dark Knight Rises but I don't think I'll be able to sit through another Series of Batman Films without comparing them to Christopher Nolans Batman: Year One Trilogy.


----------



## Bender (Mar 29, 2011)

Fucks sake why can't they do what they did with Batman and do direct-to-video series with animation from Batman: Gotham Knight?


----------



## Petes12 (Mar 29, 2011)

theyre out of their minds. they're still figuring out how to make barry allen into a real modern character, they havent got a clue what to do with wonder woman, much less Justice League. I cant think of any famous JLA stories they could easily adapt either. Not like at marvel where they can look to Ultimates for inspiration a lot.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Mar 29, 2011)

Bender said:


> Fucks sake why can't they do what they did with Batman and do direct-to-video series with animation from Batman: Gotham Knight?



Because the want to rush right into an Justice League film without giving these film properties the time to be established in 3 films before showing in film 4,5, and 6 that they are set in the same world then do an Justice League film.


----------



## The Red Gil (Mar 29, 2011)

Red Hood incorporated.


----------



## Z (Mar 29, 2011)

Get outta here Gil


----------



## Parallax (Mar 31, 2011)

this month's Detective Comics was so good, I love finally seeing Gordon get some great characterization.  This issue was a standout.


----------



## Penance (Mar 31, 2011)

Parallax said:


> this month's Detective Comics was so good, I love finally seeing Gordon get some great characterization.  This issue was a standout.



God I love it.  The more I see from the JJ Gordon storyline, the less I suspect him of being villainous.  Regardless, he brings such tension just from a flashback...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 3, 2011)

Parallax said:


> this month's Detective Comics was so good, I love finally seeing Gordon get some great characterization.  This issue was a standout.



Yea I think we can all agree that that shit was amazing.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 3, 2011)

Love that book.


----------



## Bender (Apr 3, 2011)

Dan Didio trolling Nightwing fans


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 3, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Love that book.



Batman as the housewife FTW.


----------



## Castiel (Apr 3, 2011)

Oh Damian


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 8, 2011)

Batman Beyond #4

. . . Hmm.


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 8, 2011)

What happens?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm being really picky, I suppose, but Old Bruce knows better than to call Max Terry's girlfriend. Not seriously, but in that "I don't know how to refer to her so I'll call her that."

*reads DC solicits*

Absolute Batman Hush is being reprinted?

At $100 instead of its initial $50?

You greedy bastards.

*also reads the Red Robin solicit*

I swear, if the fight between them is as bad as the Robin OYL fight. . .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 11, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I'm being really picky, I suppose, but Old Bruce knows better than to call Max Terry's girlfriend. Not seriously, but in that "I don't know how to refer to her so I'll call her that."
> 
> *reads DC solicits*
> 
> ...



Something tells me it'll be more like the fight they had in bludhaven.

As in, its not an actual fight but they have to make it look legit in order to not blow their covers. I'm giving Fabian the benefit of the doubt, since he's handled the character pretty well so far.


----------



## Bender (Apr 11, 2011)

> *RED ROBIN #25*
> Written by FABIAN NICIEZA
> Art and cover by MARCUS TO and RAY MCCARTHY
> If he’s going to avoid a fight against a psycho Super-Villain, end the 7 Days of Death, win the Assassination Tournament and discover ancient knowledge over life and death, Red Robin will have to survive a final battle against one of the world’s deadliest assassins. Her name? Cassandra Cain!
> ...



I'm liking Cass's mask


----------



## Parallax (Apr 12, 2011)

I kinda like the outfit?  Iono at least it's not awful


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 12, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I'm being really picky, I suppose, but Old Bruce knows better than to call Max Terry's girlfriend. Not seriously, but in that "I don't know how to refer to her so I'll call her that."
> 
> *reads DC solicits*
> 
> ...


$100 for hush? hahahahaha


----------



## Parallax (Apr 12, 2011)

You laugh but people will buy


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 12, 2011)

That might be the funniest part of all.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 12, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Something tells me it'll be more like the fight they had in bludhaven.
> 
> As in, its not an actual fight but they have to make it look legit in order to not blow their covers. I'm giving Fabian the benefit of the doubt, since he's handled the character pretty well so far.



Damned heck, it'd better be.

As for the costume, I find it alright.

She's donning the Bat-symbol again. Surprise surprise. But I'll see how she is in the pages.



Petes12 said:


> $100 for hush? hahahahaha



Fucking greed food for them.

Absolute Planetary Vol. 1 reprint, 320 pages, is $75. $25 above its original $50.

Absolute Batman Hush reprint, 372 pages, is double its original $50.

It ought to be $75. Not freaking $100.

Damn it to freaking heck.


----------



## Delta Shell (Apr 12, 2011)

I will now be starting Morrison's run on Batman beginning with Batman & Son, gonan read that, Black Glove, RIP, (already read FC) Battle for the Cowl, Batman and Robin up until fairly current and return of Bruce Wayne (again) then get started on Batman Inc.

I've just read Return of Bruce Wayne and after the last issue I was like. HUH?....*HUH?*

I'm guessing I should read the rest of the run for it to make sense to be honest since characters and things like the hyper adapter and the necessity of the gotcha box were lost on me.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Apr 12, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Damned heck, it'd better be.
> 
> As for the costume, I find it alright.
> 
> She's donning the Bat-symbol again. Surprise surprise. But I'll see how she is in the pages.



Yea I don't know how I feel about the costume. Hopefully it's just for the arc. As for the fight, I just hope it's done well. I don't want Cass going kid gloves, because Tim is better than that, but on the other hand I don't want Tim putting up a fight just with h2h/bo staff, because Cass is better than that.

However, I could cool fight between them that highlights both of their abilities if Tim made intelligent use of gadgets and stuff.


----------



## Cromer (Apr 14, 2011)

It's Nicieza; I'm fully confident that Cass won't look like crap. A bit below par, but that's like a large leap over what's gone before.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Apr 14, 2011)

Hold on 2 Your Socks bat Readers cause the Greatest Batman Comic of all time is being adapted

Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns is going into production a year after Batman Year One is released on DVD and Blue Ray. And at some point its follow up The Dark Knight Strikes Back.

anywho here is the full article

.............

Looks like Frank Miller and Klaus Janson's masterpiece, THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, is going to be a film - an animated one, but still, we'll get to see it in action.  According to Bleeding Cool, the same team that brought us ALL-STAR SUPERMAN and the upcoming BATMAN: YEAR ONE is working on bringing it to life.  YEAR ONE is already close to finished, and after that, they'll be working on adapting TDKR.

I'm assuming that they will receive some kind of video release, but if there's any Batman story that deserves to be shown in theaters, it's THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.  Hopefully it's a straight adaptation, and if Warner Animated doesn't pull any punches, it would be rated R, but I'd bet that's not going to happen.  So I say let's get this into theaters, animated, just like MASK OF THE PHANTASM was.  Nothing wrong with the made-for-DVD releases the DC Animated team's made so far - they're all quite good.  But THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS is as huge a comics work as WATCHMEN, and if you're going to adapt it, you should go all the way.  It's too big not to be in theaters, in my opinion.

And hey, Clint Eastwood's under WB.  Just saying...

Source:


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 14, 2011)

not really excited to be honest.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Apr 15, 2011)

I Find Your Lack of Vision to be most Troubling ...


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 15, 2011)

I dont like tDKR that much. And the idea of pushing that movie to R is hilarious.


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 15, 2011)

> *Newsarama: Adam, you've been mixing elements of the current day DCU into your run on the new Batman Beyond ongoing. What's the thought behind the way you're using the animated characters, but within the DCU?*
> 
> Adam Beechen: My feeling is that a number of years have passed between what's happening now in the DCU and the timeframe of Batman Beyond, so any number of developments may have happened in that gap that we as readers of the current DCU don't know about.
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 15, 2011)

the fact that his batman beyond book is taking place in the regular DCU with bruce as a mentor makes it a contradiction of the batman books...

Do they really think people dont want it to connect to the DCAU?


----------



## ghstwrld (Apr 15, 2011)

The whole interview is a master class in not getting it.  Yes, obviously the past informing the future is a key part of the show's ethos, but it isn't much of a major and ongoing concerning beyond Bruce/Batman.  There's a lot of wholly new and original stuff there, and gutting it to make way for shit characters/moments no one cares about is such a kick to the balls.

Yeah, I'm never getting over it.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 15, 2011)

Goddamn I never noticed that but in INC#4 the Gutters of the flashback pages were White and the modern pages were Black.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 15, 2011)

I'm going to skip over the Beechen Batman Beyond interview. Something from it will just piss me off.

Thank heck the comic Batman Beyond isn't DCAU.

As for an animated TDKR?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoZLPwRCjcQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Cromer (Apr 18, 2011)

Instead of tDKR, why not an R-rated adaptation of Serious House on Serious Earth? I know it's not likely, but hell, putting that out there.


----------



## tari101190 (Apr 18, 2011)

i don't really like batman beyond to be honest. and i will HATE if dc try to alter the already existing batman beyond future just to make it fit with the main stream.  they've shown dick being shot as nightwing and stop crimefighting, but he is batman now so that is obviously not right. 

batman beyond comics so far have been following the dcau so why not keep it like that. mareena and warhawk also don't seem to fit into mainstream dc, but are in batman beyond. 

i much prefer grant morrisons batman future outlined in batman 666, batman 700, superman batman 75 and superman batman 82. terry does exist in that future, but bruce probably will be dead once he surfaces and damian is the one who will train him. terry being 'made' in response to bruce's death to replace him even makes sense.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 19, 2011)

Cromer said:


> Instead of tDKR, why not an R-rated adaptation of Serious House on Serious Earth? I know it's not likely, but hell, putting that out there.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LISd5wjJ7Z8[/YOUTUBE]

If only. . . if only. . .


----------



## Bender (Apr 19, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I'm going to skip over the Beechen Batman Beyond interview. Something from it will just piss me off.
> 
> Thank heck the comic Batman Beyond isn't DCAU.



I never pay attention to anything Beechen says. 



> Instead of tDKR, why not an R-rated adaptation of Serious House on Serious Earth? I know it's not likely, but hell, putting that out there.



I read on Comic book resource forums that they're going to do that. Just be patient.


----------



## illmatic (Apr 26, 2011)

*BATMAN INCORPORATED #5 is on sale tomorrow.*


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 26, 2011)

I dont really think anything batman needs to be rated r...


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 26, 2011)

lol batman. "Obviously."


----------



## illmatic (Apr 26, 2011)

nice one



Petes12 said:


> lol batman. "Obviously."


----------



## Parallax (Apr 26, 2011)

Nice advertisement


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 27, 2011)

Inc was really good until the ending, which was weird and seemed out of place. 

'tec was enjoyable but not amazing. i felt bad for the, er, murder victim... i love those things


----------



## Taleran (Apr 27, 2011)

The ending was a Cold Ending just like the little team ups at the start of some of the issues only at the end.


----------



## Petes12 (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm aware, but I don't think it worked very well. Dedalus just says something random and the story ends, then we get this weird prologue which I didn't think was very good. And the plane batman flies at the end looks bad too!

/nitpick


----------



## Castiel (Apr 29, 2011)

/reads White Knight arc of B&R

now tha twas kind of neat.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Apr 29, 2011)

Batplane. War mode.


----------



## Parallax (Apr 30, 2011)

Read Batman Inc #5.  Iono I feel underwhelmed reading this one.  I haven't been this let down since B&R #4


----------



## illmatic (May 1, 2011)

*Batgirl #23* Cover by Dustin Nguyen


----------



## Penance (May 1, 2011)

^Not bad...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 1, 2011)

I like Nguyen's art. Always did.


----------



## Parallax (May 1, 2011)

I have never liked Nguyen's art, I always found it simple and frankly ugly.  That is one hell of a cover though.


----------



## Bender (May 1, 2011)

Batman: City of Crime has to be the best graphic novel I have ever read.


----------



## Taleran (May 9, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Preview_ 












Hell yeah.


----------



## shit (May 9, 2011)

so dick is blue bats and bruce is black bats?
is this canon or the inker being clever in this ish


----------



## Petes12 (May 9, 2011)

I've never looked at blue bats coloring and thought he was actually intended to wear some bright blue cape. I always thought of it as the lighting on the material or whatever.

Anyway, it helps make it even easier for a reader to tell them apart i guess.


----------



## shit (May 9, 2011)

I'd like there to be some big difference in their costumes like that


----------



## Penance (May 9, 2011)

BOSS......


----------



## Bender (May 9, 2011)

Kick-ass


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 9, 2011)

Still not sure how I feel about the robot Batmen, given Bruce's experience with Brother Eye, but other than that It looks awesome.


----------



## Petes12 (May 9, 2011)

receptionist is the girl from batman 701. someone else caught it, not me, but it's pretty neat.

edit:


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 9, 2011)

Curious what's going to happen with Outsiders in the near future. Given that Tim's already operating under the whole idea of "acting, not reacting" I think he's a good fit, and the team (and book) definitely needs an overhaul.


----------



## Petes12 (May 9, 2011)

Didnt it just get canceled? I'd be ok with it existing in universe and not necessarily having a book just yet, actually.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Didnt it just get canceled? I'd be ok with it existing in universe and not necessarily having a book just yet, actually.



I feel like if anything happened with it it would be after flashpoint. Also, it depends on whether or not anyone is interested in writing it, or if Grant himself actually wanted to do it (which would be amazing).

Or in the "it's just not going to happen so don't even wish it" category, Chuck Dixon, which would be even awesomer.

In related news:


*Preview of Red Robin 23:*

Gotta say, while Fabian definitely needs to step the plot up with a no holds barred arc (hoping this will be that arc), I love the way he does Tim's inner monologue.

"And well...now...this tends to happen"

 I do like the new Lynx. She's got moxy...or as dr. kelso would put it, "Girl Balls".

On the other hand, I hope that isn't the extent of the "Hey Bruce I'm renovating that place where your parents died" conversation

Also, how would you guys rate Marcus To? I feel like he doesn't really bring anything really exciting to the table, but his art is still really really good.


----------



## Taleran (May 11, 2011)

CBG is going to like Batman Inc #6 more than most.


But MAN THAT WAS AWESOME


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 11, 2011)

This has definitely been the issue I've been waiting for, just seeing INC in action all across the globe. And Cass Cain fuck yea!

Although I'm not quite sure how the nero nykto costume works, but fuck it that was awesome.

Really hoping Outsiders does get a book, hopefully with a few additions to the roster (Connor Hawke please!)


----------



## Taleran (May 11, 2011)

Oh about the title and that.



> From out of the nebulous light, at the end of a path, Edgar Allen Poe describes the appearance of the goddess Astarte. Here, she is an imagined figure of the night, or what’s called a nyktomorph. In darkness, when forms blend into one another and color is suppressed, our minds can create entire fantasies out of the shadows we encounter. Our inclination is to evoke something to make sense of what we can’t clearly see. But this impulse isn’t merely intellectual, the enveloping mystery of the twilight adds an emotional dimension—often fear and wonder—which lends these conjured figures and scenes a fantastical quality.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 11, 2011)

Sweet. I love how he adds those tiny little "hey that's interesting" moments pretty much everywhere he can.

One very minor issue though, and that's probably with DC editorial. BlackBat, really? First Red Robin, now Black Bat, they could at least try to come up with a decent codename. I love how Burnham draws the costume though, the way the tattered cape and her hair kind of combine.


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2011)

Actually that made me laugh, her new name. Does kind of make sense, with them being the same generation of robin/batgirl, but it relies on you not hating the red robin name haha.

Was really lacking in cass cain ultra kung fu though 

Also is it just me or was the protest gang representing the posters who hate Inc and talk about how ooc it was because batman was putting his employees in danger? And then batman on an actual message board trolling people, lol.

edit: Burnham joins the long list of artists who cant draw a cool batmobile or get red robin's costume right, unfortunately.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Actually that made me laugh, her new name. Does kind of make sense, with them being the same generation of robin/batgirl, but it relies on you not hating the red robin name haha.



They're both names that have a sort of campy charm to them, and Red Robin I've just kind of come to accept since Tim is the "adult" robin and that fits, and the name is just not going away.

But yea, at least Cass's name isn't synonymous with a restaurant franchise



> Was really lacking in cass cain ultra kung fu though



I was thinking this too, but then I noticed that it's more than likely that Cass straight up jumped into that helicopter and then kicked that dude in the face, which was pretty badass. But it's not like they could devote a whole fight scene to her.

EDIT: Does anyone else absolutely love Burnhams Bruce Wayne? Especially when he's essentially trolling on the internet? I love it but I don't know how to explain it, the first thing I can think of is the expression "Crazy like a fox."


----------



## Parallax (May 11, 2011)

After the bore I had with last issue this is a nice return to form.  

I do like the fill in artist but fuck it really upsets me at the same time


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2011)

Really? I liked 5 better. I mean, this was entertaining but it also felt a bit like filler, without a real central story to the issue.


----------



## Taleran (May 11, 2011)

That wasn't a bat mobile it was on train tracks. At least that is what it looked like.


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2011)

ancient train tracks no one uses anymore, I just figured it was a hiding place for his weird ugly batmobile.


----------



## Parallax (May 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Really? I liked 5 better. I mean, this was entertaining but it also felt a bit like filler, without a real central story to the issue.



I'm pretty sure it's not filler

yeah I didn't like 5 very much it was just bland.  Plus the art seemed rushed this time around.

Paquette is getting lazy now


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2011)

I liked his art in 5... and I liked the hood a lot.


----------



## Parallax (May 11, 2011)

We can always agree to disagree


----------



## Taleran (May 11, 2011)

This was a great issue to end the first trade on


----------



## Parallax (May 11, 2011)

screw the trades I buy them singles 

which I'm not sure if that's the wisest thing to do...


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2011)

Parallax said:


> We can always agree to disagree



but yanick did a great job :| :|

except for the africa scene. 

anyway not saying i didn't like this issue, obviously i did, but it was like a giant montage and a little setup. That's why I said it felt a bit like filler.


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2011)

this might explain cass's name too


----------



## Parallax (May 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> but yanick did a great job :| :|
> 
> except for the africa scene.
> 
> anyway not saying i didn't like this issue, obviously i did, but it was like a giant montage and a little setup. That's why I said it felt a bit like filler.



he did a mediocre job for his skill.  Plus the delays don't really help that it's not up to par with his best.

Seriously why enter a procession that demands a set monthly output and you can't even do that.  God late artists are the worst.


----------



## Petes12 (May 11, 2011)

I honestly dont know what youre talking about, it didnt look any worse to me than his first 2 issues


----------



## Castiel (May 11, 2011)

I honestly would like it if this guy stuck around for art


----------



## Bergelmir (May 12, 2011)

Did Batman just start trolling the internet? That was a great moment.


----------



## Petes12 (May 12, 2011)

Random theory, posting it here so you can rep me all if it actually pays off- the new wingman is the hood.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Random theory, posting it here so you can rep me all if it actually pays off- the new wingman is the* RED *hood.


ftfy                

Not that I've been keeping up with the series, I just read some pages online. Who else needs to be redeemed aside from Jason?


----------



## Petes12 (May 12, 2011)

James Robinson?

Bruce was only saying the wingman identity needs to be redeemed. That was the guy who turned traitor then died in that black glove story. I think it could be hood because we're led to believe he's a double agent for leviathan, but if he were a triple agent for batman then there'd be a good reason for him to go do stuff as wingman and not arouse leviathan's suspicions.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 12, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> James Robinson?
> 
> Bruce was only saying the wingman identity needs to be redeemed. *That was the guy who turned traitor then died in that black glove story.* I think it could be hood because we're led to believe he's a double agent for leviathan, but if he were a triple agent for batman then there'd be a good reason for him to go do stuff as wingman and not arouse leviathan's suspicions.



I don't remember this.


----------



## Petes12 (May 12, 2011)

He was in the club of heroes and was really jealous of Batman, he would pathetically make these comments about how he came up with an idea before batman and everyone just totally ignores him.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 12, 2011)

Oh, ok. I didn't really like that arc so I barely remember it.


----------



## Castiel (May 12, 2011)

he had a jetpack if that helps


----------



## Petes12 (May 12, 2011)

no he had the cyclops helmet, the australian guy had the jetpack.


----------



## Castiel (May 12, 2011)

oh yeah you're right

he was the one who looked kinda like a darker armored batman and was trying too hard


----------



## Petes12 (May 12, 2011)

exactly! 

"no one heard _my_ plane.  

did they?"


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 12, 2011)




----------



## Petes12 (May 12, 2011)

see the last page of the thread cbg


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 12, 2011)

Which thread? This one?


----------



## Petes12 (May 12, 2011)

i think so? we talked about the name some.


----------



## Bender (May 12, 2011)

You disappointed? 

I'm ....


----------



## Castiel (May 12, 2011)

Finally read it, good issue, great issue

great to see more of Nightrunner, also seeing Morrison take RR's latest happenings into account


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 13, 2011)

RR was pretty good this week. More set up/build up, but it was funny and it seems like its going somewhere this time. Also, a very awesome moment for Dick in this one.


----------



## Castiel (May 13, 2011)

So WW, you hyped for Tim leading the Outsiders? 



LIL_M0 said:


> ftfy
> 
> Not that I've been keeping up with the series, I just read some pages online. Who else needs to be redeemed aside from Jason?





that actually might work, Bruce could potentially be in a more forgiving mood towards Jason.  Though it all hinges on how this upcoming arc of B&R works out, which you have to admit, came out nowhere

Winick brought in to unfuck the character again for Morrison to use better?


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 13, 2011)

I haven't been following BandR since the start of Batman Inc. Llast I remember Jason and "creepy doll faced girl" were vigilante's and... something happend to Jason, prison maybe, and the girl drove away in a garbage truck while Flamingo was fighting Dick and Jason.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 14, 2011)

Kilogram said:


> So WW, you hyped for Tim leading the Outsiders?



If there's actually an Outsiders book and a semi decent creative team is put on it? Sure, why not.

If not, then it's still kinda neat.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 16, 2011)

I'm now waiting for her appearance in Gates of Gotham.


----------



## Slice (May 16, 2011)

I really like her new costume.

So far that is all i have to say.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 16, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I'm now waiting for her appearance in Gates of Gotham.



Indeed.

Tim+Cass+Dick+Snyder = much potential for awesome.


----------



## Castiel (May 16, 2011)

Wait she's in that?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 16, 2011)

Kilogram said:


> Wait she's in that?



Yup! 

Although admittedly, since it's all about gotham's past, some small part of me is worried that this is all just Snyder making a Cain/Kane mix up...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 16, 2011)

As long as she's not abused like that GODDAMN BEECHEN --

I'll be fine.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 16, 2011)

I feel like we can all agree that Snyder >>>>> Beechen. Snyder wouldn't use her if he had to completely change her character to do so.

EDIT: Also, how would you guys feel about the conclusion of Batman INC being a crossover event? The structure of INC seems like it would really lend itself well to that. If only by having Grant layout objectives/missions for the various members (that would be covered in detail in other books), and having it all come together in INC.

I know most crossovers are shit, but the way INC is laid out it seems like it would be a good fit. And I miss bat family crossovers


----------



## Parallax (May 17, 2011)

Morrison too ahead of the creative curve for most to follow that idea :[


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 17, 2011)

So what he can't be like "Okay in the final arc I'm going to have Dick and Damian doing this, Oracle and the BOP doing this, Tim and the outsiders doing this, and having that all tie in with Bruce's overall plan which is this."?

If other writers are willing to let Morrison dictate the what, im sure there could be some fun stories giving the in depth how and why.


----------



## Cromer (May 17, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So what he can't be like "Okay in the final arc I'm going to have Dick and Damian doing this, Oracle and the BOP doing this, Tim and the outsiders doing this, and having that all tie in with Bruce's overall plan which is this."?
> 
> If other writers are willing to let Morrison dictate the what, im sure there could be some fun stories giving the in depth how and why.


 

The quality would be very up and down because, while people like Snyder, Nicieza or Tomasi could hold up their end, would you really want to see J.T. Krul writing something vital to INC?


----------



## Parallax (May 17, 2011)

Hell I don't even see Nicieza or Tomasi writing something that could take what Morrison gives them to its full potential.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 17, 2011)

I think they could. Nicieza's biggest problem seems to be coming up with the what. By that I mean, he struggles when it comes to coming up with big epic action arcs. His execution is fine.

And its not like the crossover would be necessary to the story. In Batman INC there'd just be a line about character X doing something that ties in with Bruce's overall plan. You wouldn't need to see exactly how character X accomplished that, but it'd be there if you wanted to.


----------



## Petes12 (May 17, 2011)

remember when they tried to do RIP tie ins? lets skip that.

problem with an outsiders book, btw, is there's always the cool batman character leading the team and then everyone else is shit. Well black lightning's ok, but yeah everyone else sucks.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 17, 2011)

Not all the RIP tie ins were that bad. IIRC the robin one was okay.

The thing is though, RIP was incredibly centered around Batman. It was essentially, how much shit can you throw at Batman and have him still emerge from it victorious. The only real inclusion of the bat family was Hurt and friends sending people at them to occupy them. The only real point of the RIP tie ins was just "Batman's gone, wtf do we do!?". Of course that would turn out bad.

INC is different, the whole concept is built around Batman utilizing his current and new allies against a vast criminal empire. That's why I think the tie in concept would work a lot better.

EDIT: And Katana and Metamorpho are cool too.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 17, 2011)

*Batman:* Hey, Tim.
*Red Robin:* S'up, Bruce.
*Batman:*Good detective work you did finding these cave drawings...
*Red Robin:*Thanks, I-
*Batman:*... In Iraq and NOT Gotham. 
*Red Robin:*...
*Batman:*Anyways, I know you're busy on Teen Titans...
*Red Robin:*Yeah, we're putting the band back togeth-
*Batman:*... But I think you can handle a bigger responsibility. 
*Red Robin:*OMG! I'm joing the Justic League?!
*Batman:*What? 
*Red Robin:*THIS IS AMAZING!!!
*Batman:*Sorry, but no. lolz. 
*Red Robin:*... k
*Batman:* You're getting your own super stealth team of stealthness
*Red Robin:* Please don't say The O-
*Batman:* The Outsiders.
*Red Robin:* Well, who's on this stealthy team? 
*Batman:* How bout taking a guess.
*Red Robin:*Cass? 
*Batman:* No
*Red Robin:*Lady Shiva? 
*Batman:* No
*Red Robin:*Deadman? 
*Batman:* No
*Red Robin:*The Atom?
*Batman:* No. Think outside of the box. 
*Red Robin:*Uhh... Swamp Thing?
*Batman:* Nope. Its the same old Outsiders plus a dude made out of fire. 
*Red Robin:*


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 17, 2011)

Rep'd.

I see it more like:

Bruce: Damn, this team is wrecked. I know I should help fix this team but....I don't wanna. I know! I'll let Tim deal with it, play it up as a promotion or some shit!
Tim: *enters all excited, then sees the team* Oh come on!

Yea, which is why I wish that if they were going to do this they would actually put the effort to make a team capable of actually being stealthy.

Like: Cass, GA (Connor Hawke un plasticman'd), Katana, Metamorpho (crazy versatile), Black Lightning (as the heavy hitter), and Drake.

Put a half decent creative team on that and I'd buy it.

EDIT: Although a lulzy first issue of "Red Robin and the Outsiders" woudl be Red Robin being like "Okay! First order of business. If your name is not Metamorpho or Katana, please leave. Now."


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 18, 2011)

Batman - Gates of Gotham is So. Freaking. Boring.


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2011)

It was a little uneventful. I can't help but think a different artist might've at least been able to give the bridge stuff a bit more... weight? But I like the guy's art from the nightrunner backup so I wanna give him a chance.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 18, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I can't help but think a different artist might've at least been able to give the bridge stuff a bit more... weight?


Totally agree.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 18, 2011)

Yea the art is definitely a downside, I feel like it works really well for the 1800s period stuff, but not so much for the action and what not that went down at the bridge. Also, his Cass and Tim seem a little off for some reason.


----------



## Petes12 (May 18, 2011)

I like the art style I just don't think it's a great fit for the story. Though you're right about the 1800s. 

Tim does look a little off but hey what else is new.


----------



## LIL_M0 (May 18, 2011)

Dat Jason Todd 

But why does he look like Hemsworth Thor? Arkham must serve roids with the meals.


----------



## Bender (May 18, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Tim+Cass+Dick+Snyder = much potential for awesome.


----------



## Petes12 (May 19, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> Dat Jason Todd
> 
> But why does he look like Hemsworth Thor? Arkham must serve roids with the meals.



I guess because Tan drew him like a giant in batman and robin 4-6 and they ran with it?


----------



## Taleran (May 19, 2011)

So this is amazing and hopefully true.

Rules of the Ponynet

"Wingman" Get It?


----------



## Parallax (May 19, 2011)

I actually like this theory.


----------



## Petes12 (May 19, 2011)

yep he's one of the only possibilities I can think of.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (May 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I like the art style I just don't think it's a great fit for the story. Though you're right about the 1800s.
> 
> Tim does look a little off but hey what else is new.



The only thing that bothers me about his Tim is that he has a fauxhawk for some reason. And NOBODY can rock the fauxhawk.

Also, fuck yea jason todd. Great idea to make him a redheaded chris hemsworth haha

EDIT: And im very much down with that wingman theory.


----------



## Bender (May 20, 2011)

Three words to describe Batman Inc #6: Absolute incredible spectacular 

Morrison is a genius.


----------



## Slice (May 20, 2011)

Today i got me the "Batman & Robin must die" and the "Return of Bruce Wayne" HC.

Going to read them back to back tomorrow (for the first time not on a computer screen)


----------



## Parallax (May 20, 2011)

Slice said:


> Today i got me the "Batman & Robin must die" and the "Return of Bruce Wayne" HC.
> 
> Going to read them back to back tomorrow (for the first time not on a computer screen)



I've never been to double dip into my comics

but goddamn the Batman and Robin Must Die! collection is so good, the paper is so clear and the art pops out even more than the single issue and the hardcover is just even better.  I will be honest I'm thinking of selling my single issues of that trade and just picking that up.


----------



## Bender (May 20, 2011)

I'm liking all this talk Batman's return is generating about "Bats being a god" and such and so forth. It's simply riveting and pleasing to the soul.  It's awesome, while Bats is reaching godly levels in-verse Supes is taking a faggy walk around the world.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 20, 2011)

Good week for Batman comics.


----------



## Slice (May 21, 2011)

Parallax said:


> but goddamn the Batman and Robin Must Die! collection is so good, the paper is so clear and the art pops out even more than the single issue and the hardcover is just even better.  I will be honest I'm thinking of selling my single issues of that trade and just picking that up.



Since there is no reliable way for me to even get single issues here i am basically forced to buy trades. And in this case there is no way anything but the deluxe edition should be bought.

It just looks a bit strange in the shelf because RIP is also a deluxe but 'Battle for the cowl' (yes i bought it), the 'Time and the Batman' trade and everything that came before RIP arent. So you have RIP and B&R standing out looking kinda strange towering over the other books.


----------



## Parallax (May 21, 2011)

The B&R Deluxe Editions are great, but 3 is the standout it looks so nice T-T


----------



## Petes12 (May 25, 2011)

ok _this_ time 'tec was great.


----------



## Parallax (May 26, 2011)

Detective Comics has been great for a good minute Petes


----------



## Petes12 (May 26, 2011)

I've enjoyed snyders run of course but this was the first issue I really loved.


----------



## Parallax (May 26, 2011)

Fair enough.


----------



## Cromer (May 27, 2011)

SCOOOTTT SNYYYDERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (May 28, 2011)

What is are the DetC issue numbers for Snyder's run? From what to what?


----------



## dhilonv (May 29, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> What is are the DetC issue numbers for Snyder's run? From what to what?



It starts at Detective Comics 871 until the current one


----------



## illmatic (Jun 1, 2011)

This would make a neat poster


----------



## Cromer (Jun 5, 2011)

So I see, hidden in the relaunch list, that Nightwing is getting a #1 too. So, end of the Dick Grayson era? 'Twas nice while it lasted...so what happens to Damien, then?


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

do you have some actual confirmation of that from somewhere?


----------



## Cromer (Jun 5, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> do you have some actual confirmation of that from somewhere?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2011)

illmatic said:


> This would make a neat poster



Shit, how could I go about making that into a poster?


----------



## Parallax (Jun 5, 2011)

Welp if true that sure does suck


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

ok I meant something more than the rumors.

I do expect him to go back to nightwing though, less confusing for new readers. Doesnt necessarily change anything for inc... i hope.


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## Cromer (Jun 5, 2011)

I think we all knew Dick would eventually return to being Nightwing...but I repeat, where does that leave Damien? Robin to THE Batman? God, I hope not. They would totally not mesh as a Dynamic DUo. AT ALL.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 5, 2011)

or you know, new Nightwing?


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 5, 2011)

Castiel said:


> or you know, new Nightwing?



I hope not. It's gonna suck if its a bad creative team, and if its a good one, well then why not have it be Dick?


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## Castiel (Jun 5, 2011)

Because he's a goddamn Batman


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## Petes12 (Jun 5, 2011)

his nightwing costume looked better


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## Bergelmir (Jun 5, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I think we all knew Dick would eventually return to being Nightwing...but I repeat, where does that leave Damien? Robin to THE Batman? God, I hope not. They would totally not mesh as a Dynamic DUo. AT ALL.



Will Damian even be in the rebootverse? I thought they were deaging the JLA members to their 20s. A 11 year old son doesn't really mesh with a mid 20s Batman.


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## illmatic (Jun 5, 2011)

Damian was a test tube baby


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## Bergelmir (Jun 5, 2011)

Ah, right, I forgot about that.

Also, any news on whats happening to Bat Inc? I've only heard the rumors that Morrison has to finish his story now, instead of the 2 year plan he had.


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## Parallax (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm telling you that Superman book is reparations over how DC is gonna be fucking him over the next few months


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 6, 2011)

*sigh* I'm hoping its nothing more than a rumour... but...


----------



## Parallax (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm just glad that at least it wont affect Multiversity.


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## mow (Jun 6, 2011)

this should clear up things:





Parallax said:


> I'm just glad that at least it wont affect Multiversity.



You're my fav person in the whole world.


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## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

Poison Ivy on BoP. Looking like that.


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## Parallax (Jun 6, 2011)

I like the art on Catwoman


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## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

where's Tim 

oh and an entire team of redheads, hahaha. Jason Todd stealing Dick's loser friends, it makes perfect sense really!


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## Agmaster (Jun 6, 2011)

If Tim gets pushed out the circle, fuck Batman.  Unless Tim gets his own circle that lasts solidly for atleast a year.


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## typhoon72 (Jun 6, 2011)

What the fuck is Canary wearing?  

Red Hood looks entertaining at least.


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## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

THANK GOD

bad news is we have to wait to see how it finishes but at least it's coming. 

Now I just worry about Tim and Cass :|


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## Taleran (Jun 6, 2011)

You know that is actually pretty funny. Delaying the only real High Quality Bat-Book until well into next year because you know if you put it out with everything else it will eradicate them all in sales.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 6, 2011)

So is anyone else annoyed at change in Dick's nightwing costume?

Bringing back the blue would make it better, but honestly the last NW costume was fuckin awesome imo.


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## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

I am annoyed Batwing got his own ongoing when Blackbat should of gotten one if they were planning on doing a "diversity hire"


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## Castiel (Jun 6, 2011)

> You know that is actually pretty funny. Delaying the only real High Quality Bat-Book until well into next year because you know if you put it out with everything else it will eradicate them all in sales.


oh you


In any case I'm definitely getting "Batman" and "Batwoman"


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## illmatic (Jun 6, 2011)

how about a poll for most anticipated batman title relaunch?


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## Castiel (Jun 6, 2011)

that's my plan, but gonna wait to see if they don't spring anything more at us


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## Bender (Jun 6, 2011)

Jesus....I don't know what is even more fail; Canary's outfit or Dick's new Nightwing outfit.


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## Comic Book Guy (Jun 6, 2011)

Where, oh where, will Cassandra Cain be. . .


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 6, 2011)

Lol at Birds of Prey...continuing with the unneeded Poison Ivy face turn...and jesus what is Canary wearing...are those mesh fishnets or something?



Whip Whirlwind said:


> So is anyone else annoyed at change in Dick's nightwing costume?
> 
> Bringing back the blue would make it better, but honestly the last NW costume was fuckin awesome imo.



It looks funky to say the least...and as i said in the reboot thread it better suits Jason more than it does Dick.

I swear to god though if they ditch Tim and Cass, i'm done with Batman.


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## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So is anyone else annoyed at change in Dick's nightwing costume?
> 
> Bringing back the blue would make it better, but honestly the last NW costume was fuckin awesome imo.


Ehhh I like it for the most part. I'm a sucker for those batman glove pointy things.


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## Bender (Jun 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Ehhh I like it for the most part. I'm a sucker for those batman glove pointy things.



So you have no problem with the fact that Dick's Nightwing has the type of designs that Todd would add to it?


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## Petes12 (Jun 6, 2011)

Only significant changes are the pointy things on the gloves and the red. And he _was_ Robin.


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## Penance (Jun 6, 2011)

^So I guess all of Bruce's old sidekicks'll be wearing red...


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## Taleran (Jun 6, 2011)

Picked up the Hardcover of Batman and Robin Must Die today, it is gorgeous. I guess it is also the first David Finch comic I own then.


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## Bender (Jun 6, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Only significant changes are the pointy things on the gloves and the red. And he _was_ Robin.



Still the color red should be nowhere on Nightwing since the whole point of his Nightwing costume was to move away from his origins as Robin. The only thing this change has done is make him grim as Bruce and give the same violent atmosphere as Jason Todd in his first Red Hood costume (prior to Batman & Robin).


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## Castiel (Jun 6, 2011)

I like how the sizes are consistent in all the B&R stuff, it always bugs me to shit when volumes of the same run are different sizes.


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## Comic Book Guy (Jun 7, 2011)

And the fans who really identify with Barbara's wheelchair'd plight are now making their voice heard.

First substantial one I read is the Newsarama article.

On said article, I give props for the writer pointing out DiDio's previous, "No. Never." answer to the question, "Will Barbara walk again?" at a previous convention. She was there in person even provides the link too.


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## Castiel (Jun 7, 2011)

*Batman Incorporated*

edit: poll added

voted everything except Finch's book, Detective, Catwoman, Batgirl and BoP

edit2: probably shouldn't have put "most" in the poll question but whatever, you get the gist


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## Slice (Jun 7, 2011)

Incorpoated, Batwoman and Batgirl (I want to see how Simone handles it) for me


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## Parallax (Jun 7, 2011)

I will only read Incorporated

fuck everything else.


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## Bergelmir (Jun 7, 2011)

Batman and Robin, and Bat Inc are all that seems interesting to me. Snyder is writing adjectiveless Batman right? So that aught to be good as well.

I want to include Batwoman too, but really at best, I'm expecting 3-4 issues a year with that. So not much enthusiasm there.


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## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2011)

My biggest worry with batwoman is, of course, the writing. Because once again its an artist who did a run with a good writer and is hoping they can mimic that now, by themselves. I hear they're way far ahead schedule on it though, so it should come out on time for a while.

Snyder's batman should be good but I'm not super excited about the artist.


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## Petes12 (Jun 7, 2011)

roy's baseball cap has a dead cat on it


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## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Red Hood and the Redheaded League Outlaws is the only one I'm excited for because they have a chance to redeem two characters that were treated like shit. And I love Starfire.

The rest of the Bat line doesn't interest me. I prefer Dick and Damian over Bruce and Damian. I liked Inc but seeing as it won't matter in a few months... I don't want to read it now. I may pick it up later.

And don't even let me get started on the Batgirl issue.


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## Slice (Jun 7, 2011)

Problem with a dynamic duo of Bruce / Damian is that Robin so far has been a more light take on the war on crime.

With Bruca / Damian you have grimdark counterbalanced by even more of the same.


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## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Slice said:


> Problem with a dynamic duo of Bruce / Damian is that Robin so far has been a more light take on the war on crime.
> 
> With Bruca / Damian you have grimdark counterbalanced by even more of the same.



When you had a grimdark Batman, you had a cheerful Robin (yes, even Jason). When you had a cheerful Batman, you had a grimdark Robin.

Besides, I don't see Bruce taking Damian's shit. And the banter was one of the things that made the Dick/Damian team so entertaining.


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## Cromer (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> When you had a grimdark Batman, you had a cheerful Robin (yes, even Jason). When you had a cheerful Batman, you had a grimdark Robin.
> 
> Besides, I don't see Bruce taking Damian's shit. *And the banter was one of the things that made the Dick/Damian team so entertaining*.



Hit the nail on the head there.


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## Comic Book Guy (Jun 7, 2011)

^ What he said.

Plus, I like Dick as Batman.


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## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Really, I can't see Damian using "That's sooo interesting I can't wait to tweet it" on Bruce.

I'm gonna miss the snark


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

Well, Bruce had to have a chance to train his son at some point. You can love Damien and Dick, but at some point it was going to normalize a bit, and Batman not working with his son would be a bit awkward. And for those of you who think that he won't be able to talk about Tweeting things, remember that Morrison had Bruce trolling internet forums (Which is easily one of the greatest scenes in a Batman book EVER).

The only way Batgirl is going to succeed for me is if Cassandra and Stephanie are regulars in it, even better if they are prot?g?es. I'd love the first arc to be "Batgirl, Inc", where we see Barbara, Cassandra, Stephanie, and even Misfit in there as team. But it's Simone, so I'll get it out of faith in her writing (same thing with Firestorm. Remember what she did with Ryan Choi?).

I'm kind of interested in Batwing (DC needs an African superhero. Bad.), though I'm not sure if he is not African-American. He's based on a story which had Bruce Wayne talking to underprivileged city kids and what they thought Batman was. He very well might be someone who was born in the US and went back to Africa. Considering he's supposed to be "Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Shaft and Super-Fly all rolled into one!", I don't think they are necessarily wrong on that one. The only thing which makes me not want to read the book is Judd Winick, who has good and bad moments. Hopefully this will be one of his better ones, and at the very least he can have a far more relevant discussion about AIDS within the context of the book itself.


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## illmatic (Jun 7, 2011)

Cyborg who I know is not part of teh batman family is African-American and has been elevated to the status of member of Big 7 hero in the relaunched Justice League.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

Oh, no, I meant _African_. Like the continent. DC has a fairly decent amount of African-_American_ superheroes, but I was talking about those who are actually native to Africa. I think I'll be making a post regarding this in a little while, actually...


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## Banhammer (Jun 7, 2011)

Probably late but:
Good news everyone!
This book is gonna get cancelled and re-launched like next year as a #1 because of the reboto!

Wait, did I say "good"? I probably meant terrible. :33
Probably.


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## lucky (Jun 7, 2011)

lol.  tbh i'm not really a fan of batman inc.  i'm liking this.


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## Comic Book Guy (Jun 7, 2011)

I wonder how Joker will walk out of this. . .


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

Edit: Whoops, wrong thread.

I don't think the Joker is going to be changed much if at all. What would they do to him?


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## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Edit: Whoops, wrong thread.
> 
> I don't think the Joker is going to be changed much if at all. What would they do to him?



He's gonna go back to his Adam West version. To attract new readers, you know.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> He's gonna go back to his Adam West version. To attract new readers, you know.



I'd actually think they'd make him look like the Heath Ledger Joker if they were going to give his appearence an update.


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## Bender (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm so disgusted and out of it that I want to say "screw it" to waiting for the releases of the  #1 Bat-books. I mean they've already ignored the heeds of the fans to not uncripple Barbara. But would you believe it, they went ahead and did it. I mean seriously what's the point of calling her Batgirl if she's ridiculously adult girl. I mean sure Power Girl and Super Girl have the last name "girl" and aren't in the adolescent age where they were learning but that's because they aren't as accurate as Bat-books are when it comes to naming. 

I mean shit with this reboot Tim, Cass are pretty much in oblivion (you know the same place where Kishi's chars that are never mentioned go).


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## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> I'd actually think they'd make him look like the Heath Ledger Joker if they were going to give his appearence an update.



Maybe... I honestly don't know what kind of strategy DC is using.

It seems that the changes are rather arbitrary. Dick goes back to being Nightwing but loses his classic outfit (let's ignore the disco suit). Jason Todd goes to the look he had when he returned from the grave and - most importantly - the one he had in the UtH movie. Damian, a new character, is now Bruce's Robin. But Barbara goes back to her classic Batgirl incarnation.

And DC seems to have forgotten about the middle kids of the Bat Family. So what exactly are they aiming for? 
They keep one new character, they regress Babs to her Batgirl days (circumstances unknown), they shove Dick and Jason back into their second identities, which were featured in the latest animated movie (though Dick's costume has been changed).

Something I noticed is that the characters that were ditched are the two that were never animated (Cass had a three second scene in one show but I don't remember which one) and the one that hasn't been animated in years.



Bender said:


> I'm so disgusted and out of it that I want to say "screw it" to waiting for the releases of the  #1 Bat-books. I mean they've already ignored the heeds of the fans to not uncripple Barbara. But would you believe it, they went ahead and did it. I mean seriously what's the point of calling her Batgirl if she's ridiculously adult girl. I mean sure Power Girl and Super Girl have the last name "girl" and aren't in the adolescent age where they were learning but that's because they aren't as accurate as Bat-books are when it comes to naming.
> 
> I mean shit with this reboot Tim, Cass are pretty much in oblivion (you know the same place where Kishi's chars that are never mentioned go).



I still believe Tim will be safe. Maybe he'll be shoved into a Teen Titans book.

Cass and Steph, though...


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 7, 2011)

Tim's going to end up somewhere, he's to popular for DC to atually ditch him. It's Cass, Stephanie and Misfit that i'm curious about


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## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

I forgot about Misfit. 

So that would be three female characters (5 if you cound Oracle and Wendy, 6 if Huntress doesn't appear somewhere) getting the short end of the stick.

Sounds like DC.


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## Penance (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm sure Tim will still head the Outsiders...


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

Guys, they brought back _I, Vampire_. They aren't fucking retconning Cass or Tim, especially since Cass was in _Batman, Inc_. Just because Barbara is going back to Batgirl doesn't mean that these characters are suddenly going to disappear; in all honesty, DC doesn't seem to be eliminating any characters with this revamp (Really, it seems to be more accurate than reboot, since more and more it seems like a very limited amount of things are changing) and they will probably get moved into another book.

A few things:

- Nightwing's classic look is just a palette switch, and he's used the red before. Let's not blow things out of proportion here. I like the blue, too, but this is a bit nitpicky.
- Barbara is going to be Batgirl because she is the Batgirl that most non-comics fans know. If you've watched any of the animated series, you'll see Barbara as Batgirl. I'm not a fan of this big change, but I doubt they are completely eliminating the "Oracle" part of her history and probably having her go through some sort of procedure to fix her paralysis; I don't think they are going to OMD it here. But if you want something to really bitch about, I hear they are killing Cass off as a motivation for her to take up the mantle again: Because it is just too dangerous for kids.
- I'm just kidding about that last part. Seriously. That is totally something I just made up. Please do not send any hate mail for that specific rumor. 
- Again, DC seems to be expanding their character universe, not contracting it. Considering they are not rebooting _Batman, Inc_, I doubt they have any intention to eliminate some significant Bat Family members.


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## Bender (Jun 7, 2011)

Penance said:


> I'm sure Tim will still head the Outsiders...



Eh, that seems a little premature. If the timeline rectcon is correct then Tim should be with the Teen Titans and Nightwing should be heading the Outsiders.


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## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> Guys, they brought back _I, Vampire_. They aren't fucking retconning Cass or Tim, especially since Cass was in _Batman, Inc_. Just because Barbara is going back to Batgirl doesn't mean that these characters are suddenly going to disappear; in all honesty, DC doesn't seem to be eliminating any characters with this revamp (Really, it seems to be more accurate than reboot, since more and more it seems like a very limited amount of things are changing) and they will probably get moved into another book.



Which book? 

I want to be hopeful, but...



Guy Gardner said:


> A few things:
> 
> - Nightwing's classic look is just a palette switch, and he's used the red before. Let's not blow things out of proportion here. I like the blue, too, but this is a bit nitpicky.



I don't mind the change, but you have to admit that his _iconic_ suit is blue, not red.



Guy Gardner said:


> - Barbara is going to be Batgirl because she is the Batgirl that most non-comics fans know. If you've watched any of the animated series, you'll see Barbara as Batgirl. I'm not a fan of this big change, but I doubt they are completely eliminating the "Oracle" part of her history and probably having her go through some sort of procedure to fix her paralysis; I don't think they are going to OMD it here.



We'll see.



Guy Gardner said:


> But if you want something to really bitch about, I hear they are killing Cass off as a motivation for her to take up the mantle again: Because it is just too dangerous for kids.







Guy Gardner said:


> - I'm just kidding about that last part. Seriously. That is totally something I just made up. Please do not send any hate mail for that specific rumor.







Guy Gardner said:


> - Again, DC seems to be expanding their character universe, not contracting it. Considering they are not rebooting _Batman, Inc_, I doubt they have any intention to eliminate some significant Bat Family members.



Yeah, again, I want to be hopeful. And I'm not scared for Tim. But Cass has been cancelled, turned into a villain and then forgotten for years. While Steph was Robin for 5 minutes, derailed to Hell in War Games and then fridged for years, brought back to be the new Batgirl and that lasted less than 25 issues. So I don't really trust DC when it comes to them. :/

Hey, if they manage to bring them back and have them star in one of the big books, I'll be very happy. But I don't want to get my hopes up.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Which book?
> 
> I want to be hopeful, but...



_I, Vampire_ was an early 80's book which starred a vampire called Andrew Bennett. He's made a token few appearances in DC Comics since then, but otherwise was never really used. He made an appearance in Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang's _*brilliant*_ "Architecture and Mortality" miniseries in _Tales of the Unexpected_. It's about a bunch of unused characters running around trying to avoid being retconned out of existence, with the main villains being _*Geoff Johns, Greg Rucka, Mark Waid, and Grant Morrison*_. It took place during/post-_52_, so you'll see a lot of references to it, but it's absolutely great.

But anyways, Azzarello used Bennett and proceeded to use him to make every "I... Vampire" joke he possibly could over the course of 8 issues (It was the backup to a Spectre story). If they are bringing him back, I can't believe that any significant Batfamily member is getting the axe, especially those who recently had a series or a decent amount of appearances.



> I don't mind the change, but you have to admit that his _iconic_ suit is blue, not red.



Agreed.



> We'll see.



Yeah, I guess we'll have to. But I think DC is going to give her a reason to come back rather than trying to do all the work of making her fit in all the previous series and reconciling her Oracle days.



>







> Yeah, again, I want to be hopeful. And I'm not scared for Tim. But Cass has been cancelled, turned into a villain and then forgotten for years. While Steph was Robin for 5 minutes, derailed to Hell in War Games and then fridged for years, brought back to be the new Batgirl and that lasted less than 25 issues. So I don't really trust DC when it comes to them. :/



You have good reason, though I think retconning them out of existence is something which is even beyond their ken. I think both will still likely have places in the _Batgirl_ book, especially with someone like Simone (Who loves using secondary characters in her solo books) at the helm.



> Hey, if they manage to bring them back and have them star in one of the big books, I'll be very happy. But I don't want to get my hopes up.



So do I. Again, I'm not saying not to be irritated, but I think it might be getting a little out of hand. I mean, I'm a DC fanboy, but even I left them in the last year (God, if they hadn't bored me to death with the direction on most of their titles).


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## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> _I, Vampire_ was an early 80's book which starred a vampire called Andrew Bennett. He's made a token few appearances in DC Comics since then, but otherwise was never really used. He made an appearance in Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang's _*brilliant*_ "Architecture and Mortality" miniseries in _Tales of the Unexpected_. It's about a bunch of unused characters running around trying to avoid being retconned out of existence, with the main villains being _*Geoff Johns, Greg Rucka, Mark Waid, and Grant Morrison*_. It took place during/post-_52_, so you'll see a lot of references to it, but it's absolutely great.
> 
> But anyways, Azzarello used Bennett and proceeded to use him to make every "I... Vampire" joke he possibly could over the course of 8 issues (It was the backup to a Spectre story). If they are bringing him back, I can't believe that any significant Batfamily member is getting the axe, especially those who recently had a series or a decent amount of appearances.



I mean, in which book could Cass and Steph appear? Teen Titans? (no, please) Outsiders? Batgirl? Black Bat and Spoiler? I wish

But thanks for the info, I'm gonna check it 8D



Guy Gardner said:


> Yeah, I guess we'll have to. But I think DC is going to give her a reason to come back rather than trying to do all the work of making her fit in all the previous series and reconciling her Oracle days.



Mhh... I don't know how they are going to do it, to be honest. Will they make her a virtual Batgirl? Unlikely. Will they retcon Oracle? Magic will restore her legs? I guess we'll have to wait.



Guy Gardner said:


>







Guy Gardner said:


> You have good reason, though I think retconning them out of existence is something which is even beyond their ken. I think both will still likely have places in the _Batgirl_ book, especially with someone like Simone (Who loves using secondary characters in her solo books) at the helm.



Yeah, I don't know. I didn't like how Simone worded it. Making it seem like only Babs is a real Batgirl. But I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.



Guy Gardner said:


> So do I. Again, I'm not saying not to be irritated, but I think it might be getting a little out of hand. I mean, I'm a DC fanboy, but even I left them in the last year (God, if they hadn't bored me to death with the direction on most of their titles).



I'm more sad than angry. Cass and Steph are my favourite characters and they have been treated like crap in the past few years.


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## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I mean, in which book could Cass and Steph appear? Teen Titans? (no, please) Outsiders? Batgirl? Black Bat and Spoiler? I wish
> 
> But thanks for the info, I'm gonna check it 8D



Oh. OH.

Well, I think there are a decent amount for them to go into. Batgirl would be the easiest, as well as Outsiders and Birds of Prey (Perhaps not the first issue, but later ones makes it pretty easy). Teen Titans is another good choice, and I wouldn't doubt Cass would turn up in the new Batman, Inc down the road. What's the solicit for Detective Comics? I'm on a dialup connection and it's spotty at best.

But in all honesty, I think there are plenty of places for them to go. Outsiders seems pretty obvious for Cass (I mean, it's her MO completely), and Titans would be great for Steph. But either way, they'll find a place, even if it takes a few months.



> Mhh... I don't know how they are going to do it, to be honest. Will they make her a virtual Batgirl? Unlikely. Will they retcon Oracle? Magic will restore her legs? I guess we'll have to wait.



The technology is almost certainly there, considering how many incredible minds there are in the DCU. The bigger problem I have is finding a catalyst for coming back. After she gets back, having her retrained by her younger-but-in-fighting-condition counterparts is a slam dunk story to help maintain continuity amongst old fans while introducing new fans to Steph and Cass while not cheating them on who they would consider the "real" Batgirl.



> Yeah, I don't know. I didn't like how Simone worded it. Making it seem like only Babs is a real Batgirl. But I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.



If there is any writer at DC you should give the benefit of the doubt, it's Simone.



> I'm more sad than angry. Cass and Steph are my favourite characters and they have been treated like crap in the past few years.



Yeah. But hey, think of it like this: If it were Tom Brevoort, he'd be doing this on purpose to try and piss you off.


----------



## Bender (Jun 7, 2011)

Am I the only one who is plagued by memories of Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin when I look at Dick's Nightwing costume's color scheme?


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 7, 2011)

Not enough Batnipples.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Bender said:


> Am I the only one who is plagued by memories of Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin when I look at Dick's Nightwing costume's color scheme?









Guy Gardner said:


> Oh. OH.
> 
> Well, I think there are a decent amount for them to go into. Batgirl would be the easiest, as well as Outsiders and Birds of Prey (Perhaps not the first issue, but later ones makes it pretty easy). Teen Titans is another good choice, and I wouldn't doubt Cass would turn up in the new Batman, Inc down the road. What's the solicit for Detective Comics? I'm on a dialup connection and it's spotty at best.
> 
> But in all honesty, I think there are plenty of places for them to go. Outsiders seems pretty obvious for Cass (I mean, it's her MO completely), and Titans would be great for Steph. But either way, they'll find a place, even if it takes a few months.



I don't know... . It just worries me that there's not even a hint of any of them in the new releases.



Guy Gardner said:


> The technology is almost certainly there, considering how many incredible minds there are in the DCU. The bigger problem I have is finding a catalyst for coming back. After she gets back, having her retrained by her younger-but-in-fighting-condition counterparts is a slam dunk story to help maintain continuity amongst old fans while introducing new fans to Steph and Cass while not cheating them on who they would consider the "real" Batgirl.



A Batgirls team would be awesome.



Guy Gardner said:


> If there is any writer at DC you should give the benefit of the doubt, it's Simone.



I guess.



Guy Gardner said:


> Yeah. But hey, think of it like this: If it were Tom Brevoort, he'd be doing this on purpose to try and piss you off.



It could be much worse. It could be Joe Quesada.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I don't mind the change, but you have to admit that his _iconic_ suit is blue, not red.



This is my biggest issue with it.

I feel like his most recent Nightwing suit was basically THE nightwing suit. Changing the black and blue for me is like Barry or Wally not wearing yellow and red. It just feels like change for the lulz.

Also, it annoys me how his costume is basically Batman Beyond but Nightwingized. And, the red for me screams Robin. I always thought the blue was to get him away from that.

It's a minor thing, but its one of those situations where I picture Wolfman going to the guys house and hitting him with a newspaper. "Bad Artist/editor/writer! Bad!"


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

And no fingerstripes.

How dare they.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> And no fingerstripes.
> 
> How dare they.



Finally, someone who understands!


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 7, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Finally, someone who understands!



It's not a Nightwing costume without the fingerstripes.

Though Dick and the audience rest of the DCU is probably delighted he can show his butt again. I still think the real reason he didn't like the cape was because it hid his superpower.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 7, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It's not a Nightwing costume without the fingerstripes.
> 
> Though Dick and the audience rest of the DCU is probably delighted he can show his butt again. I still think the real reason he didn't like the cape was because it hid his superpower.




Nicola Scott is undoubtedly delighted.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Nicola Scott is undoubtedly delighted.





I'd say


----------



## Penance (Jun 8, 2011)

Oh, you all...


----------



## Bender (Jun 8, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Nicola Scott is undoubtedly delighted.



Now that is

*BADASS*

*glares at new Nightwing design and flips off DC comics*


----------



## Parallax (Jun 8, 2011)

I feel bad not caring about Nightwing :[


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

How can you not care about that ass? 

So it sems all the Bat boys got their books.

Cass and Steph are nowhere to be seen.

Diversity, people!


----------



## illmatic (Jun 8, 2011)

*BATWOMAN: ELEGY* TPB softcover comes out today for those that didn't pickup the deluxe oversized hardcover edition


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 8, 2011)

Somehow, I get the feeling that IF Cassandra Cain is rebooted, they'll go off from Beechen's post-IC version.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Somehow, I get the feeling that IF Cassandra Cain is rebooted, they'll go off from Beechen's post-IC version.



She'll be the new head of the League of Assassins. Her goal in life will be to get Tim Drake's sperm.

Steph will be somebody's girlfriend who gets killed in the first issue.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 8, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> She'll be the new head of the League of Assassins. Her goal in life will be to get Tim Drake's sperm.
> 
> Steph will be somebody's girlfriend who gets killed in the first issue.



This is actually strange considering what's going on in Red Robin at the moment...thankfully it isn't Cass though.

Death by Snu-Snu!


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 8, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> This is actually strange considering what's going on in Red Robin at the moment...thankfully it isn't Cass though.
> 
> Death by Snu-Snu!



Well, brainwashed Cass already tried to get in his pants.

I bet she'll be the one that saves him from Dragon Lady #243543


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Somehow, I get the feeling that IF Cassandra Cain is rebooted, they'll go off from Beechen's post-IC version.



Well of freaking course, Didio was in love with that story.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 9, 2011)

So Winnick has Scarlett appear in the latest B&R in costume and wearing her mask. Yes the same mask that dissolved off her face way back in Issue #6 when she left Gotham.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 9, 2011)

Taleran said:


> So Winnick has Scarlett appear in the latest B&R in costume and wearing her mask. Yes the same mask that dissolved off her face way back in Issue #6 when she left Gotham.



Yea...the issue wasn't terrible, and I still dig Winnick's Todd, but this is such a rookie mistake.

Do comics have any sort of quality control? You'd think Marts or somebody would look at it, flag the artist down, and get him to re do it or edit it or something.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah, WW, Winnick's Jason Todd is the best. Everyone else writes him horribly.





Taleran said:


> So Winnick has Scarlett appear in the latest B&R in costume and wearing her mask. Yes the same mask that dissolved off her face way back in Issue #6 when she left Gotham.



I though it was just scar tissue on her face from the mask being burned on. Hard to tell with the fugly artwork. 

Also, she could've ben caught slipping that same night (issue 6) while wearing the Scarlet uniform. There never really was a "____ weeks/months later" to establish how muchtime has passed.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2011)

What is this "Red Hood and the Outlaws" in the new poll?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah I was figuring scar tissue as well I mean she couldn't have looked THAT different with the mask off now





> What is this "Red Hood and the Outlaws" in the new poll?


New Jason Todd series where he teams up with Arsenal and Starfire

no it's not my Winick


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

sudden art inconsistency between issues is annoying, though the artist this issue wasn't bad.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 9, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> What is this "Red Hood and the Outlaws" in the new poll?



. Jason, Roy, and Starfire.

Also, if no one has pointed it out yet: NO MECHANICAL ARM FOR ROY. Could this mean... Lian?!


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 9, 2011)

its more likely she never existed.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 9, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> .


Cool.                


Castiel said:


> no it's not my Winick


----------



## Bender (Jun 9, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> its more likely she never existed.



Fail 


Without her Roy's not whole.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2011)

Wrong! That void is easily filled with heroin.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 10, 2011)

You mean "china cat"


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 10, 2011)

Castiel said:


> You mean "china cat"



No, he means "dead cat".


----------



## Castiel (Jun 10, 2011)

No, it's "DeadCat" Comics

China Cat is the drug


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2011)

African Batman? Interesting.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 10, 2011)

With jet wings


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 10, 2011)

Sweet.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

interview about Winick's Batwing book.


----------



## Castiel (Jun 11, 2011)

with new solicit info






> *BATMAN #1
> Written by SCOTT SNYDER
> Art by GREG CAPULLO and JONATHAN GLAPION
> Cover by GREG CAPULLO
> ...







> *DETECTIVE COMICS #1
> Written by TONY S. DANIEL
> Art by TONY S. DANIEL and RYAN WINN
> Cover by TONY S. DANIEL*
> ...








> *BATMAN AND ROBIN #1
> Written by PETER J. TOMASI
> Art and cover by PATRICK GLEASON and MICK GRAY*
> On sale SEPTEMBER 14 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US ? RATED T
> ...








> *BATWING #1
> Written by JUDD WINICK
> Art and cover by BEN OLIVER*
> On sale SEPTEMBER 7 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US ? RATED T
> ...








> *BATWOMAN #1
> Written by J.H. WILLIAMS III and W. HADEN BLACKMAN
> Art and cover by J.H. WILLIAMS III*
> On sale SEPTEMBER 14 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US ? RATED T
> ...








> *BATGIRL #1
> Written by GAIL SIMONE
> Art by ARDIAN SYAF and VICENTE CIFUENTES
> Cover by ADAM HUGHES*
> ...








> *NIGHTWING #1
> Written by KYLE HIGGINS
> Art and cover by EDDY BARROWS and JP MAYER*
> On sale SEPTEMBER 21 ? 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US ? RATED T
> ...


----------



## Castiel (Jun 11, 2011)

> *BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1
> Written by DAVID FINCH
> Art by DAVID FINCH and RICHARD FRIEND
> Cover by DAVID FINCH*
> ...








> *RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #1
> Written by SCOTT LOBDELL
> Art and cover by KENNETH ROCAFORT*
> On sale SEPTEMBER 21 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
> ...








> *BIRDS OF PREY #1
> Written by DUANE SWIERCZYNSKI
> Art and cover by JESUS SAIZ*
> On sale SEPTEMBER 21 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
> ...








> *CATWOMAN #1
> Written by JUDD WINICK
> Art and cover by GUILLEM MARCH*
> On sale SEPTEMBER 21 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T+
> ...


----------



## Bender (Jun 11, 2011)

Poison Ivy's look is easily the biggest fail of the lot.


And no I still don't care for the red of Dick's Nightwing costume.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 11, 2011)

Bender said:


> Poison Ivy's look is easily the biggest fail of the lot.



I think its only fail because its on Poison Ivy. I really like the look of the costume itself. switch up the green to something more neon. And it could be pretty awesomen of a character with energy based powers.

But, you know, its on Poison Ivy. 



Also, I guess this is a redeemed Jason Todd on the Outlaws book. Who is still toting guns. Nice rehabilitation work there, Bruce.


----------



## Slice (Jun 11, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> I think its only fail because its on Poison Ivy. I really like the look of the costume itself. switch up the green to something more neon. And it could be pretty awesomen of a character with energy based powers.
> 
> But, you know, its on Poison Ivy.



This.

I understand they dont want their characters to rum around like sluts and / or hookers anymore.

But Ivy has that whole seduction thing going on...


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

and yet...



edit: also, king shark looks hilarious there. just a huge grin on his face for some reason.


----------



## Slice (Jun 11, 2011)

Wait a minute i totally missed this cover.

Dont tell me that is supposed to be Harley???


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Yeah, with King Shark and Deadshot. It's for Suicide Squad.

obviously they're going for an Arkham City look.


----------



## Slice (Jun 11, 2011)

Now thats absolutely stupid.

This look goes against everything they try to accomplish with their redesign. 

And King Shark really is making a great  face


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Slice said:


> This look goes against everything they try to accomplish with their redesign.



Not really, I'm pretty sure part of the goal was to make the costumes look more modern 

Idk, once again, not a great look but I can easily see why they'd want to change harley quinn's old look. She never really fit in with the way batman books are generally drawn.


----------



## Bender (Jun 11, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> I think its only fail because its on Poison Ivy. I really like the look of the costume itself. switch up the green to something more neon. And it could be pretty awesomen of a character with energy based powers.
> 
> But, you know, its on Poison Ivy.



That's pretty much the biggest halt in their decision. 

Although, I think I'm being a bit too critical.  IIRC, that's the same costume Ivy was wearing during No Man's land when she was being ruthlessly screwed over by Clayface.

EDIT:

Nevermind, actually, I think I'm more peeved by Dinah Lance's suit.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 11, 2011)

Bender said:


> That's pretty much the biggest halt in their decision.
> 
> Although, I think I'm being a bit too critical.  IIRC, that's the same costume Ivy was wearing during No Man's land when she was being ruthlessly screwed over by Clayface.



Naw, its all good. Thats what the reboots are for. Irrational raging. There's no fun in sitting around, sipping tea, and going "My word, that looks magnificently mediocre!" 



Petes12 said:


> and yet...
> 
> 
> 
> edit: also, king shark looks hilarious there. just a huge grin on his face for some reason.


King Shark looks awesome. That grin is totally the Cool Aid Man in shark form.


----------



## Bender (Jun 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Idk, once again, not a great look but I can easily see why they'd want to change harley quinn's old look.* She never really fit in with the way batman books are generally drawn.*



The same can be said of the mediocrity that Barbara's regression to Batgirl really bring about. It's like we have two Batwoman now.


----------



## Bender (Jun 11, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Naw, its all good. Thats what the reboots are for. Irrational raging. There's no fun in sitting around, sipping tea, and going "My word, that looks magnificently mediocre!"





I love my irrationality as much as the next guy does but I don't want it to make me miss out on anything good. That's the exact same reason why Secret Six's bitchin new issues aren't in my possession. However, I'm absolutely positive about my disgust of Robin's new costume as well as WG,Bart, and Conner. Way too 90's for my taste.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

Black Canary's suit would be fine if she still had her current trenchcoat. And boots.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 11, 2011)

You know, I didn't even realize she wasn't wearing boots. She may as well be running around barefeet. 



Bender said:


> I love my irrationality as much as the next guy does but I don't want it to make me miss out on anything good. That's the exact same reason why Secret Six's bitchin new issues aren't in my possession. However, I'm absolutely positive about my disgust of Robin's new costume as well as WG,Bart, and Conner. Way too 90's for my taste.



Yeah, the whole thing reeks of the 90s. Its no wonder Liefeld is doing Hawk and Dove.


----------



## Slice (Jun 11, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Yeah, the whole thing reeks of the 90s. Its no wonder Liefeld is doing Hawk and Dove.



no he istnt, since it is Liefeld he will instead be doing "Hawk and oversexualized useless female sidekick".


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 11, 2011)

She's got sandals or something but it looks silly.


----------



## Bender (Jun 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Black Canary's suit would be fine if she still had her current trenchcoat. And boots.



She can't because Wondy's got it.


----------



## Rasendori (Jun 11, 2011)

So Dick isn't rocking a batsuit anymore.. Lame..


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 11, 2011)

Rasendori said:


> So Dick isn't rocking a batsuit anymore.. Lame..



Meh, he was bound to go back to the Nightwing suit eventually...though this one will just take some time for me to adjust.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 11, 2011)

That's Harley Quinn?

Hmm.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 11, 2011)

its Hoochie Quinn


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 11, 2011)

DeviantArt Fantasy Quinn.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm going to miss Harley's original costume I can just tell


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 11, 2011)

The design is similar to the one she had in Arkham Asylum.

:/


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 11, 2011)

I wonder how Arleen Sorkin Harley Quinn -- TAS look or Asylum or City look -- would react to the reboot costume.


----------



## Bender (Jun 12, 2011)

@ Harley Quinn's new outfit

 




She looks like the female version of Kefka from Final Fantasy VI. Only a lot more fucked up in the head.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 12, 2011)

"batman is a conservative because he's a multi billionaire industrialist and yet he only fights poor people crime"


----------



## FeiHong (Jun 12, 2011)

So I kind of stopped reading after the third issue...
Should I continue? Because of the reboot DC is going to do?
I'm not so sure...


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 12, 2011)

FeiHong said:


> So I kind of stopped reading after the third issue...
> Should I continue? Because of the reboot DC is going to do?
> I'm not so sure...



It's coming back next year apparently, so you might as well continue on.


----------



## FeiHong (Jun 12, 2011)

Is it any good though? the first three chapters was kind of tough to read for me... the art style...


----------



## Taleran (Jun 13, 2011)

Goddamn did anyone else notice the Giant *Quarter* in Wayne Enterprises.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 13, 2011)

Son of a gun.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 14, 2011)

I noticed it, but it never occured to me to question it. 'Twas more like 'Giant quarter? Hmm...I guess he moved the Batcave stuff out.'


----------



## Rod (Jun 14, 2011)

Tho, one thing should be pointed, in part DC ended up making it a favour for Grant: Resolving the status-quo themselves instead of letting him to do so, what was something he pointed earlier in interviews regarding Inc was going to devote certain amount of time to deal in the end (if not mt, even using expressions such as "going to pack the toys back in their box" something around that).

Otoh, it's very possible he had already in mind the closure on this aspect of the script and thus the time Inc. will need to standby in order so Grant can reimagine and rework these certain vital portions that now were rendered basically unnecessary anymore.

Nonetheless, DC seems to have taken a tad seriously the: "should not try to fix what does not seems to be broken" phrase, at least, in what refers to the batverse you notice not much will indeed take another shape here, apart from predictable stuff that inevitably would of happen, besides of course one or other topics (most proeminently in Batgirl discussions). 

Well, can't really blame them as people have been enjoying this corner of DC for quite some time as of now, therefore I assume it's fine for the most of us to understand their editorial positions on why it's not needed a big shaking, only certain actions disguised as so. 

Personally, taking the aforementioned points in argument, do not see it for the bat-books as a "reboot" in the most classical meaning of the word per se, but more as another mere evolution in stories for the next semester, this in basic words of course, while still taking in consideration it's dificult to simply separate things or even ignore them for once when looking from the "whole" pov. In this case, easier to absolve it becomes if judged by not delivering what promised, marketed, was trying to sell as. We will see, we will.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 16, 2011)

So I'm reading Streets of Gotham and my suspension of disblief is shattered.

*Spoiler*: __ 




Firefly is wandering past people in the street, tagging them and later setting them on fire. They scream as they burn to death. He kills 34.

Zsasz is making children fight each other to the death with knives and getting people to watch and bet on it. The losers die and he dumps them in the river.

I'm sorry but it's almost impossible to believe that even Batman, Bruce or Dick, wouldn't kill them for doing this, exspecially when past experience tells them they'll kill again. He's Batman, it's not even as if the cops would ever know.

Same for the cops themselves. No one like this would live long enough to get to trial. If they didn't shoot Zsasz themselves they'd cuff him, give a prisoner a knife and look the other way.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 16, 2011)

Harley makes me think Typhoid Mary in a good way.  Is THAT why the birds are totally covered now?  Ah well, hypersexualization had to go away sometime.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 16, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> So I'm reading Streets of Gotham and my suspension of disblief is shattered.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Batman and his family don't kill. Because it would be too easy and they may not be able to stop. Why do you think the Joker is still alive? He commited countless crimes, killed Jason Todd and crippled Babs.

My question is why Gotham doesn't sentence him to death. Or why no vigilante blows his brains out.

Joker immunity


----------



## Rasendori (Jun 16, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Joker has the insane card he can pull in courts I believe, the real question is why Dent, Penguin, Riddler, and all those countless guys who aren't insane avoid the death penalty.


----------



## Bender (Jun 16, 2011)

Rasendori said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Joker has the insane card he can pull in courts I believe, the real question is why Dent, Penguin, Riddler, and all those countless guys who aren't insane avoid the death penalty.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I believe it's a company matter rather then in-character decision. I mean if Batman killed it'd be hard for them to come up with other villains. Well that's my two cents in the matter. Also Batman's reasoning for not killing is he'll become an utter sociopath and be unable to come back from that hellish abyss as he puts it in "Under the hood"


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 16, 2011)

Personally I always saw it as directly tied with his gun policy: he just doesn't want to be anything close to his parents' murderer. His whole superhero thing is built on fighting that. 

Also in a more realistic world he would still just turn them in because no one would reasonably expect criminals to break free all the damn time.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 16, 2011)

Rasendori said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Joker has the insane card he can pull in courts I believe, the real question is why Dent, Penguin, Riddler, and all those countless guys who aren't insane avoid the death penalty.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Isn't he a sociopath, though?


----------



## Castiel (Jun 16, 2011)

You has suspension of disbelief while reading a Batman comic?


----------



## Rasendori (Jun 16, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't he a sociopath, though?




*Spoiler*: __ 



It wouldn't be too hard to prove in court that he "wasn't in control of his actions" and that he is much more insane than he is a sociopath. I believe there was a comic that dealt with this issue actually.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 16, 2011)

Rasendori said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> It wouldn't be too hard to prove in court that he "wasn't in control of his actions" and that he is much more insane than he is a sociopath. I believe there was a comic that dealt with this issue actually.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah, I could buy that after the first kill. Countless corpses later... I don't see how any judge/jury would _not_ vote for the death sentence.

I'd like to read that one.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 19, 2011)

Batgirl 22 featured a Squire/Batgirl team up against a british villain named The Orphan, because he always wants some more.

this is why Batgirl is awesome.


----------



## shit (Jun 20, 2011)

I was reading some back issues of Gotham City Sirens, and this book has some very good arcs after awhile
too bad it started out like complete garbage and everyone dropped it


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 20, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Batgirl 22 featured a Squire/Batgirl team up against a british villain named The Orphan, because he always wants some more.
> 
> this is why Batgirl is awesome.



And there's a Beatles cameo.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jun 20, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> And there's a Beatles cameo.



and the Monty Python reference..Batgirl was fantastic all around last week.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 20, 2011)

shit said:


> I was reading some back issues of Gotham City Sirens, and this book has some very good arcs after awhile
> too bad it started out like complete garbage and everyone dropped it



Right now, Harley's currently back with Joker. Again.


----------



## gabzilla (Jun 20, 2011)

Just in time for her make over. 



Emperor Joker said:


> and the Monty Python reference..Batgirl was fantastic all around last week.



As usual.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 20, 2011)

Steph: Keeps Batman waiting and doesn't afraid of any Wayne


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm fairly sure if she really did die, it's things like this which would prevent Bruce from putting up her uniform in the Batcave.


----------



## illmatic (Jun 21, 2011)

Issue #2 comes out tomorrow, still check out Dustin Nguyen's variant cover for issue #3 of GATES OF GOTHAM out in July.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2011)

Gates 2 picked up A LOT. The first issue was kind of meh for me, but this one was a lot better imo.

So I'm guessing the architect brothers are Drakes? Pretty cool.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 22, 2011)

wait how'd you figure that?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 22, 2011)

I remember Scott saying that the 4 families would be the Elliots, Waynes, Cobblepots, and Drakes.

I could be wrong, Its just a theory I guess. But it kinda makes sense, since the Drakes used to be mad rich.

EDIT: Although it's also incredibly likely that the bad guy is a member of the 4th family, but I wouldn't mind it being the drakes because that's just way too obvious.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 23, 2011)

Is Snyder writing this?  If so I will pick it up


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 23, 2011)

Yea he is. The art is the guy who did the nightrunner backup in 'TEC. In the present it's serviceable, but the guy draws gotham's past really well.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 23, 2011)

its worth noting that he's co-writing with the guy who's going to write nightwing. Hopefully some of that quality sticks with the guy.


----------



## Rod (Jun 23, 2011)

Well, at least on a positive sign, seems he is pretty passionate about character.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 24, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _On Dick no longer being Batman_ 













Poor Damian...


----------



## Slice (Jun 24, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> Poor Damian...



awwwwwww


----------



## Taleran (Jun 24, 2011)




----------



## Petes12 (Jun 24, 2011)

fanart or...?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jun 24, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: _On Dick no longer being Batman_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was so lame.


----------



## Taleran (Jun 24, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> fanart or...?



Sadly yes.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't read batman and I teared up a little.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 24, 2011)

Fuck Bruce Wayne.  *just read Damian's letters*


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 24, 2011)

So I read Gotham Gates.

Interesting, so far.

Cassandra Cain and Damian is what I thought it would be.



Bergelmir said:


> *Spoiler*: _On Dick no longer being Batman_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*chokes in sorrow*


Ha ha!


----------



## Parallax (Jun 25, 2011)

Those Damian letters got me a little emotional not gonna lie


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 25, 2011)

i laughed at the cat thing, i felt NOTHING for damian


----------



## Amuro (Jun 25, 2011)

The artist did one from Damian to Tim which is just hilarious, i hope she does some more.


----------



## Parallax (Jun 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i laughed at the cat thing, i felt NOTHING for damian



You suck Petes >:[


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 25, 2011)

Amuro said:


> The artist did one from Damian to Tim which is just hilarious, i hope she does some more.



"Weak tears", "death stink".


----------



## Rod (Jun 26, 2011)

Did you guys see that?

Paul Levitz is gonna be writing a Batbook, he announced! ;0


----------



## Cromer (Jun 26, 2011)

I still say we should get a 'Nightwing and Robin' mini down the road...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 27, 2011)

Bergelmir said:


> "Weak tears", "death stink".



Its kind of odd but the main reason why I want Tim to still be part of the bat side of things is that I want more of him and Damian just being total assholes to each other.


----------



## Bergelmir (Jun 27, 2011)

Well, Tim is still supposed to show up every now and then in the Bat books, right? So we'll hopefully still get them being jerks to each other. Damian will even have a ton of ammo thanks to Tim's new suit.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 29, 2011)

So it turns out James was just a nice guy!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> So it turns out James was just a nice guy!



As if there was any doubt 
I think that and the "Well played,sir." were my favorite parts.


----------



## The man with a pigeon (Jun 29, 2011)

It is incredibly outraging to know that Tony Daniel's Batman is outselling Snyder's 'Tec.

But hey, at least DC recognizes that and switched their books for the relaunch.

Cause what Snyder is doing could be ranked up there with stuff like Year One.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 29, 2011)

Ha. Man-O-Bats.


----------



## Cromer (Jun 30, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Ha. Man-O-Bats.


Expand on that?


----------



## Spica (Jun 30, 2011)

I just recently got into Batman, Nightwing and Robin and then this reboot thing just screws everything up  

Dick no longer Batman, him and Damian breaking up, Nightwing turns RED ffff


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jun 30, 2011)

Breaking up the Dick and Damian duo is a crime.


----------



## Spica (Jul 1, 2011)

Oh god, I just ordered Batman and Robin Vol 1, Batman Reborn. Lol, I'm taking my first official step into Comicville.


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 1, 2011)

Spica said:


> Oh god, I just ordered Batman and Robin Vol 1, Batman Reborn. Lol, I'm taking my first official step into Comicville.



"Crime is doomed."


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 1, 2011)

Spica said:


> Oh god, I just ordered Batman and Robin Vol 1, Batman Reborn. Lol, I'm taking my first official step into Comicville.



A good start, especially with that kind of Batman status-quo.


----------



## Z (Jul 2, 2011)

Man-Of-Bats is fucking awesome


----------



## Cromer (Jul 2, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> A good start, especially with that kind of Batman status-quo.


Personally, the only success I've had dragging people into reading comics is either via lending them my Grim Hunt TPB, or sitting them down and handing them Batman Reborn (I can't lend that shit out, twas expensive!) I keep hoping for the guy who'll start reading, and then NOT mooch off me.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 2, 2011)

Personally I found Batman and Robin a little confusing. Without reading stuff like Batman RIP and Batwoman I got lost pretty fast...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 2, 2011)

That's why I started my GF on Grant's first Batman issue. Now she's just getting into Reborn and loving it.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 3, 2011)

The first six issues of B&R are easy for anyone to get into.

After it can get a bit out there


----------



## shit (Jul 5, 2011)




----------



## lucky (Jul 5, 2011)

i liked the dynamic between harley and ivy.  It started out so fun and everythign.  Then gotham city sirens happened...


----------



## illmatic (Jul 5, 2011)

“There is a reason that so many horrible things happen in Gotham.” – J.H. Williams <-DC Source blog interview

_On September 14th, the eagerly anticipated BATWOMAN #1 will fly onto stands. Co-writers J.H. Williams III and W. Haden Blackman talked to us about what’s in store for Kate Kane including the reveal of new villains and where issue one begins._

I see you Sep 14 

On Batwomans Rogue’s Gallery ~ _'By the time the second arc wraps we’ll have established no less than 5 new villains.' ~_

Lets hope chapters don't feel too crowded like when some of the recent comic movies try to focus on too much at once

still.. 



> *What’s the unofficial tagline for this series, in your own words?*
> 
> JHW: There is a reason that so many horrible things happen in Gotham.
> 
> WHB: “It’s not a costume; it’s a uniform.” We keep coming back to this notion that Kate was trained as a soldier, and still views herself in that light. She dons the uniform to do a job, complete a mission. But under the mask, she’s always still Kate Kane — there aren’t two identities that she shifts between. What happens to Kate in her “civilian” life affects Kate as Batwoman, and vice versa.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 5, 2011)

I'll believe that issue hits the stands when it finally comes out.


----------



## dwabn (Jul 6, 2011)

question, is tim gonna be featured in any of the new batbooks or is he only really gonna be in titans? 

Despite his outfit id still like to see him have a book.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

I think he's only going to be mainly featured in Titans. Although Snyder has said that he really likes Tim, so there's a chance he'll be in Batman.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 6, 2011)

I hope so.  I may not be looking forward to the art but I'll still pick up Snyder's Batman


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 6, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I think he's only going to be mainly featured in Titans. Although Snyder has said that he really likes Tim, so there's a chance he'll be in Batman.



Yeah. I think they meant his "main book" will be Titans, not that he's simply restricted to that book and that book only.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

Parallax said:


> I hope so.  I may not be looking forward to the art but I'll still pick up Snyder's Batman



Too bad they couldn't just have Jock jump ship with him.

But yea, I love how Snyder writes Tim, so I hope he's a featured character. If the Nightwing book is going to focus on him doing his own thing, and the B & R book is going to focus on Bruce and Damian, it'd make sense for Tim to be a supporting character in Batman, kinda like he is for Dick now in 'TEC.

On the other hand, Tim's new costume looks so utterly ridiculous that it'd distract from the rest of the book.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 6, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Too bad they couldn't just have Jock jump ship with him.
> 
> But yea, I love how Snyder writes Tim, so I hope he's a featured character. If the Nightwing book is going to focus on him doing his own thing, and the B & R book is going to focus on Bruce and Damian, it'd make sense for Tim to be a supporting character in Batman, kinda like he is for Dick now in 'TEC.
> 
> On the other hand, Tim's new costume looks so utterly ridiculous that it'd distract from the rest of the book.



It's so ridiculous that Damien will now have endless ammo to mock him with.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 6, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> It's so ridiculous that Damien will now have endless ammo to mock him with.



Tim has to have something, otherwise it'll just be.

Damian mercilessly insults Tim -> Tim eventually snaps and beats the poor kid with a stick -> Dick intervenes - > Damian mercilessly insults Tim, and so on.

But yea Im still really pissed at how horrible his costume is. Its so ridiculous that its hard to even imagine it in the "bat verse"


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 6, 2011)

Re-reading Batman, Inc., I just noticed that the girl at the receptionists table at Wayne Enterprises is the young prostitute from the 3-Batmen Arc early in Morrison's run. Haven't seen it commented on (And frankly, I'm too lazy to sort through all the DCnU talk right now), but it's a nice little callback.


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 7, 2011)

Batman year one trailer


----------



## Slice (Jul 7, 2011)

Looks good, but i'm not completely sold on the voice acting


----------



## dwabn (Jul 10, 2011)

the trailer looks great and i dont really mind the young/ higher pitched bruce voice.

hopefully its gonna be a really solid adaptation, the animation looked really good.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 13, 2011)

'TEC was awesome, as per usual. Didn't expect to see Joker, but SS and FF nail him great. Creepy as all hell. Not to mention James Jr. giving him a run for his money.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 13, 2011)

new Tec is out this week?


----------



## illmatic (Jul 13, 2011)

Parallax said:


> new Tec is out this week?


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2011)

cass with claws is fucking stupid


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 13, 2011)

I think she looks cool.

Though Marcus To can make anything look good.

Oh, and Batgirl 23:


*Spoiler*: __ 



what a tweeeest


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 13, 2011)

the problem is then when to draws her fighting shes clawing people like catwoman which is pretty lame for a top class martial artist. at least in my opinion.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 13, 2011)

Yeah, Cass doesn't claw at people, she throws a counter at the moment of maximum damage.

Not sure if her bootlessness is cool or if she looks like she's fighting in her socks...


----------



## The Red Gil (Jul 13, 2011)

Dick and Damien breaking up?


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 13, 2011)




----------



## The Red Gil (Jul 13, 2011)

Kawaii

Desu


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 13, 2011)

Its not even up to debate. Every single child, regardless of race or nationality, at some point wanted to become Batman. Even MLK.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 14, 2011)

Ah, Cassandra Cain.

Cricket. Martial artist fast enough to evoke a Speed Force comment.

Looks like we have a new #2 DCU martial artist.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 14, 2011)

I assumed he was a metahuman.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 14, 2011)

...Before Knight-Fall Tomorrow the Official release of The Dark Knight Rises Teaser Trailer will be out HD...


----------



## Cromer (Jul 14, 2011)

Cricket...meta? Or another 'White Canary' (martial artist outta nowhere)?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 14, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Ah, Cassandra Cain.
> 
> Cricket. Martial artist fast enough to evoke a Speed Force comment.
> 
> Looks like we have a new #2 DCU martial artist.



I he's stylin on Cass Cain (and Tim), wouldn't that make him "Tied for #1"? or actually #1?

I've always seen Cass, Bruce, and Shiva sittin at the top.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 14, 2011)

DC be trippin over it's master martial artists. Anyone can be a Superhero so long as they can punch in a Japanese way.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 14, 2011)

Karate Kid no.1


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 14, 2011)

Karate Kid is #1, usually.

Cricket may be meta-human due to his speed. But nothing's confirmed yet, of course.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 14, 2011)

I don't count Karate Kid simply because he's so far and away the best that it kinda goes without saying.

I mean...Superkarate.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 14, 2011)

If you're far and away the best you still count :|


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 14, 2011)

I dont count karate kid because hes just stupid, and from the future.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 14, 2011)

That doesn't dispute that he's the best

don't be stupid petes


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 14, 2011)

I like to pretend he doesnt exist.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 14, 2011)

Parallax said:


> If you're far and away the best you still count :|



Well fine.

I revise my opinion to only including those who have been born in the present DCU. So ha!


----------



## Parallax (Jul 15, 2011)

I'll concede to that point

Well played WW, well played


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 15, 2011)

Nonetheless, it was good to see Cassandra Cain again.

Though, sig's still not changing until she's appearing on a regular monthly basis, AND consistently written well.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 15, 2011)

No one cares about Karate kid.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 15, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Nonetheless, it was good to see Cassandra Cain again.
> 
> Though, sig's still not changing until she's appearing on a regular monthly basis, AND consistently written well.


CBG, the biggest Cassandra Cain fan outside CBR forums (and those might just be noisier, all things said)


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 15, 2011)

Cassandra's awesome. I think it'll be a long time before she has her own book, if ever again. But she'd be a good addition to something like Birds of Prey... though she'd really be stealing Canary's thunder there.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Cassandra's awesome. I think it'll be a long time before she has her own book, if ever again. But she'd be a good addition to something like Birds of Prey... though she'd really be stealing Canary's thunder there.



I don't think she would. Canary is more of a leader than just a fighter, especially in that book. Having someone who fights better than her wouldn't hurt her, especially since she has the Canary call. She's not defined as much by her martial arts as Cassandra is.

Really, Canary is a leader, Cassandra is a specialist. I think it works well.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 15, 2011)

Guy Gardner said:


> I don't think she would. Canary is more of a leader than just a fighter, especially in that book. Having someone who fights better than her wouldn't hurt her, especially since she has the Canary call. She's not defined as much by her martial arts as Cassandra is.
> 
> Really, Canary is a leader, Cassandra is a specialist. I think it works well.


Under Simone's pen, I think we saw an increasing tendency for the Canary to emphasize her martial arts over her 'metaness', a move I didn't entirely agree with. But since I won't be reading Birds in September, who gives a shit?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 15, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Cassandra's awesome. I think it'll be a long time before she has her own book, if ever again. But she'd be a good addition to something like Birds of Prey... though she'd really be stealing Canary's thunder there.



Not really, considering Lady Shiva at certain points might as well have been a member of the group...so another martial artists wouldn't really hurt Canary's role on the team


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 16, 2011)

Cromer said:


> CBG, the biggest Cassandra Cain fan outside CBR forums (and those might just be noisier, all things said)



I pride myself on being the biggest but most sensible Cassandra Cain fan who's a male.

The two Cassandra Cain cosplayers are bigger fans than I. By virtue of cosplay. And DAMN GOOD ACCURATE cosplay.

I'd have join the DC Comics boards long ago but for some freaking reason, I can't sign up due to not being in the states (literally showed up on my screen).

Short thrown out fact: there's a user on the Batgirl DC Comics boards who's like the anti-Cassandra Cain Phenomenol.



Petes12 said:


> Cassandra's awesome. I think it'll be a long time before she has her own book, if ever again. But she'd be a good addition to something like Birds of Prey... though she'd really be stealing Canary's thunder there.



I'd be surprised if she got another mini again.

DiDio won't go for it. Someone asked the question of another mini or monthly, which DiDio promptly shot down due to the lackluster sales of the recent Cassandra Cain mini.

Which everyone knew was the result of Adam Beechen writing Cassandra Cain again. And, of course, ruining her character even further. Heck, when the issues were first solicited, the Batgirl community advertised a boycott.

Personally, I'd just like to see her on a consistent basis again. Then I'd bump her Cassandra Cain thread I made here.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 16, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I pride myself on being the biggest but most sensible Cassandra Cain fan who's a male.
> 
> The two Cassandra Cain cosplayers are bigger fans than I. By virtue of cosplay. And DAMN GOOD ACCURATE cosplay.



If you looked like her you would be fan no1


----------



## Taleran (Jul 16, 2011)

David Brothers writing about Batman and Frank Miller is some of my favorite things

All Star Batman & Robin aka Frank Miller owns Batman.










So much awesome writing about a book that should be higher regarded by people.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 16, 2011)

You can write all the fancy essays in the world about it, doesn't mean that makes it a good series.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2011)

Could barely finish it, that's how awful it was. I like a lot of comics I've seen dissed on here and elsewhere, including The Dark Knight Returns.

But All Star? I agree with Likara: Bruce Wayne has been killed and replaced by a mad hobo called Crazy Steve.


----------



## Slice (Jul 16, 2011)

I know i am slow - but who exactly is this guy beating Tim and Cass at the same time? Has he been there before? I have serious problems with the fact that someone can dispatch Cass so easily.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2011)

Slice said:


> I know i am slow - but who exactly is this guy beating Tim and Cass at the same time? Has he been there before? I have serious problems with the fact that someone can dispatch Cass so easily.



He goes by Cricket. Cass has been following him for a while. Pretty sure he's a meta, so it's not like she got owned by some random martial arts scrub.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 16, 2011)

Nothing's ever been said bout whether he's a meta or not


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Nothing's ever been said bout whether he's a meta or not



Ah that's right. I think Tim just says a comment about how you'd think he had the speed force with how fast he was moving.

I still think he's a meta, just because it makes more sense that way. Otherwise it's kind of ridiculous.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 16, 2011)

Meh, who cares, probably just some random made up by whoever wrote the issue and will never be seen again.


----------



## Slice (Jul 17, 2011)

If he is no meta there should be no way he would be able to easily put down Cass.
I dont say she should ever lose - its the "without an effort" part that irks me especially since she had Tim there to help.

Oh and before i forget it: In this issue Tim's "crazy prepared" moment was great too. I just love these.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 17, 2011)

Either way, it'll be interesting if he's used again.



Parallax said:


> If you looked like her you would be fan no1



That distinction goes to that one Cassandra Cain cosplayer.

They look alike that it's downright scary.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 17, 2011)

Heh, 'scary'.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 18, 2011)

So the end of the trailer

[Youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne7ewS5QMg[/Youtube]


----------



## LIL_M0 (Jul 18, 2011)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> So the end of the trailer


What about it?


----------



## shit (Jul 18, 2011)

boxing ring
I thought that was silly, but it'll probably turn out to be extremely awesome in the movie


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 18, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Either way, it'll be interesting if he's used again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 18, 2011)

Its like The Batman rendition of FEAR... Alma (Ra's) had 2 children (Pupils) but she (he) only favored one... Care to guess how this entitlement issue is going to end... And it looks like as for the Character background I'm guessing Goyer and Nolan are taking cues from Night Fall, Legacy but I doubt very much that they'll borrow anything from the Veritas Liberat story arc all though they might... for their interpretation of Bane...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 18, 2011)

I can't be the only one who has nfc what Hellrasin's talking about.

edit: oh, the trailer i guess


----------



## shit (Jul 18, 2011)

lol, all though


----------



## Cromer (Jul 21, 2011)

Gates of Gotham. לפאקינג weird.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


>



My life was complete when I saw her and another Cassandra Cain cosplayer in full costume, posing alongside one another. I took a picture.

And then my life was complete again when I successfully took a picture of myself standing alongside her.

I'll never again know such bliss. Unless Cassandra Cain is restored.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 21, 2011)

Did you get her number


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 21, 2011)

Parallax said:


> Did you get her number



Nope. No real reason to. At best, we're 'hey, it's that person' if we bump into one another at conventions.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2011)

> "Batman: Leviathan is about Bruce and Damian though, and you will cry and cry and cry."



uh oh. **


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm fairly sure they already said Damian was taking over Robin duties in the main continuity right?

He is unlike to die.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2011)

It's sorta unlikely but totally possible, Damian appearing in Batman and Robin doesn't really change that. Leviathan won't get started till 2012 and it'll run a year.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 21, 2011)

But Batman Inc is in the old continuity, Damian is Robin in the post-reboot coninuity.

Even if he dies in Batman Inc he'll still be alive outside of it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2011)

Batman Inc is still in continuity post-flashpoint.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Jul 21, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> But Batman Inc is in the old continuity, Damian is Robin in the post-reboot coninuity.
> 
> Even if he dies in Batman Inc he'll still be alive outside of it.



Most of the Batman continuity is sticking around actually


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 21, 2011)

I know but... nevermind.

Morrison also said he wished Dick and Damian had been together longer and BatInc is part of a series he planned out years ago so Damian dying is hiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly unlikely.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2011)

Yeah, that's a decent point... I just wonder what else it could be?


----------



## Parallax (Jul 21, 2011)

Well to be fair Batman Inc wasn't even in the original planning of Morrison's run

soooo you never know how it will really end it could go anywhere with him.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> uh oh. **



Great, more drama and wangst. Just what we needed.



> Simone spoke to her connection to Barbara Gordon, saying that the new "Batgirl" series will focus on Barbara Gordon as a young woman just out of college struggling to find her place in the world.



LOL


----------



## Parallax (Jul 21, 2011)

whatever it's Morrison it'll be good


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Great, more drama and wangst. Just what we needed.




Trust in Morrison. Even if he writes 'wangst' it'd only last 2 panels before he moves on to the next scene!


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Trust in Morrison. Even if he writes 'wangst' it'd only last 2 panels before he moves on to the next scene!



 We'll see.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 21, 2011)

We have no reason to doubt Morrison's Batman

it's the only good thing that Bruce and co have had going in many years.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 21, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> We'll see.



Whatever you'd totally love Bruce Damian hug moments anyway. I've seen your fan comics


----------



## Penance (Jul 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Whatever you'd totally love Bruce Damian hug moments anyway. I've seen your fan comics



That Damien likes cats, though...


----------



## Parallax (Jul 21, 2011)

that comic was great :']


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Whatever you'd totally love Bruce Damian hug moments anyway. I've seen your fan comics



Bruce secretly likes hugs. 

Just not in public.


----------



## illmatic (Jul 22, 2011)

The new preview page of the interior art of Batwoman #1 from Source blog looks like next the page to the March preview.


----------



## Rod (Jul 22, 2011)

I thought regarding Damian, it'd kinda be the: "in reality, you're not biologically his son" card about to play, what was sorta expected to happen at certain point.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Hmmmmmmm...

Steph was no longer Robin... kinda messes up an intresting part of her dynamic with Bruce but doesn't nesscessarily ruin it...

I'm pissed off (Fuck you Dido)...

But I had a thought:

If Steph was never Robin... there's really no reason why someone couldn't write her returning to that role and for longer than she had it last time...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 22, 2011)

DiDio would most likely put his foot down and won't allow it.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

I know but he won't be editor forever...


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

But no one would do it because its not a good idea :|


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

Steph should get out of the Batman shadow and do her own thing.


----------



## Cromer (Jul 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Steph should get out of the Batman shadow and do her own thing.


Definitely this.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

They don't want her anyway  She can go have adventures around the world, teaming up with a new hero each week.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> They don't want her anyway  She can go have adventures around the world, teaming up with a new hero each week.



She could but she shouldn't D:


----------



## ghstwrld (Jul 22, 2011)

From last week:





> It was one of the most depressing weeks of my life, because we basically spent the whole week in this horrible office planning how to kill this poor teenage girl who I really liked, I thought she was a great character and she was one of the few friends that my character had, and I tell you the whole thing about her being Robin, was simply a trick.
> 
> The whole way through it was planned purely as a trick to play on the readers, that we would fool them into thinking that the big event was that Stephanie Brown would become Robin but we knew all along it was a temporary thing, and she was then going to die at the end of this crossover story.
> 
> ...



O_o


----------



## Cromer (Jul 22, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> From last week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LolWUT? My brain


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

It always makes me think of the evil overlord list. DC needs a 5 year old child advisor and if he can spot any flaws in your plans your need whole new plans.


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

Ugh War Games.



The Pink Ninja said:


> She could but she shouldn't D:



Why not?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Why not?



She has unfinished business in Gotham.

Don't get me wrong, BQM writing a girl's road trip of JUSTICE series would be awesome but I'm still more intrested in her living a civillian life and actually having a mother and dealing with her extended Batfamily


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

It's good that Chuck Dixon managed undo that damage quickly, before he was booted from DC for who knows why (talking about the war games thing)


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

What did he do ?___?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

You know I suck at keeping track of comic creators but DIxon no longer working for DC is really suprising when he seems to have his name on half the Bat-Family things written since, like, 1998.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

He did something to upset people at DC because he's basically not invited to work there anymore from what I understand, and was dropped on his run of Robin just a few issues after he started (right after he brought Spoiler back).


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

Wierd.

Was he the one who flatout refused to kill Nightwing in Infinite Crisis so they offed Superboy instead?


----------



## gabzilla (Jul 22, 2011)

I miss Dixon 



The Pink Ninja said:


> She has unfinished business in Gotham.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, BQM writing a girl's road trip of JUSTICE series would be awesome but I'm still more intrested in her living a civillian life and actually having a mother and dealing with her extended Batfamily



Meh, she can have her civillian life while travelling.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

It'd be a great book but still my second choice.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Wierd.
> 
> Was he the one who flatout refused to kill Nightwing in Infinite Crisis so they offed Superboy instead?


No, this was right before RIP. 

And Gab, I gotta agree with tPN, at least I generally prefer books that deal with the alter-ego side of characters. If she traveled the world it'd basically be Red Robin


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

On the otherhand anyting with Steph in it written by BQM would be awesome and the addition of Cass, Kara, Cassie, Rose ect ect would just make it more awesome.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 22, 2011)

belligerent thief cassie?


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Jul 22, 2011)

I prefer jeans and fuck-me-boots den-mother Cassie...


----------



## Spica (Jul 23, 2011)

So I finally got my Batman and Robin comic. To my surprise, it seems I have ordered the deluxe edition.  Other than that, I enjoyed reading it, but the art was iffy some places. Esp. Sasha's shocked face. 

But I'm going to buy vol. 2


----------



## Parallax (Jul 23, 2011)

You should, if you haven't already, look into Morrison's earlier Batman work since it all ties in together.


----------



## Spica (Jul 23, 2011)

^I would love that. Just need to figure out what they're called so I can look them up on Amazon. Already have Battle for the Cowl on my list hum.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 23, 2011)

the order is 
Batman and Son
Batman: The Black Glove
Batman RIP
you're also gonna need Final Crisis :x unless you already know what happens there


----------



## Spica (Jul 23, 2011)

Are they the titles of the arcs or the volumes?  I will be eating noodles for a while to afford these in my student life.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 23, 2011)

these are the volumes


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 27, 2011)

New Detective Comics was incredible. Writing is top notch and art is amazingly terrifying. I'd love to get that cover on a shirt.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 28, 2011)

damn another one?  sweet.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 28, 2011)

Detective Comics was awesome

honestly at this point Snyder is writing the best Batman book and despite the notch down in art coming September I'm definitely picking up his Batman book.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 28, 2011)

the new guy doesnt look too bad. I'm glad they went with a more stylized artist and not the kind of typical batman artist, like Daniels or something.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 28, 2011)

It's no Jock

and I've never cared for Capullo's Spawn output 

maybe he'll surprise me.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 28, 2011)

Ive never read spawn


----------



## Parallax (Jul 28, 2011)

of course you haven't


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 28, 2011)

what's that mean


----------



## Parallax (Jul 28, 2011)

It means I believe you

I don't expect you to have read any comics past circa 1999


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 28, 2011)

I went back and read a few things from the 90s, mostly batman related.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 28, 2011)

Reading batman related stuff from the 90s just makes me miss Chuck Dixon.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I went back and read a few things from the 90s, mostly batman related.



but not much from the 80's and even earlier I can assume

which is ok.

I wouldn't be surprised if you thought music from the 60's sucked and that B&W movies are boring lol


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 29, 2011)

read DKR, death in the family, and year one. I liked year one. I have to say, DC's retroactive one shots are not doing anything to change my mind about old comics either.

I dont feel that way about music, but black and white movies are hard to sit through yeah... but I dont think that has much to do with the lack of color. watched some of a twilight zone marathon though, that wasnt bad! Guy's glasses broke, I lol'd.


----------



## Parallax (Jul 29, 2011)

maybe you'll like those things when you're older


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 29, 2011)

I wouldn't count on it.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 29, 2011)

some nice looking preview art there. flash pages are pretty cool. 

edit: the logos are different on most of the books too.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jul 29, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> some nice looking preview art there. flash pages are pretty cool.
> 
> edit: the logos are different on most of the books too.



Damn nice art. At the very least, the big books will _look_ nice.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 29, 2011)

meant to put that in the reboot thread but oh well!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jul 29, 2011)

Gates of Gotham, good read.

Latest Detective Comics issue, holy crap!


----------



## Rod (Jul 29, 2011)

Did you guys see KoV #3 preview?

Holy shit, this whole mini is some fucken edge brilliance. Talk about abruptly removing batfandom out of mental comfort zone.


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 29, 2011)

the what preview?

edit: nvm, no where is it?


----------



## Rod (Jul 29, 2011)

Here it is, Petes:



:0


----------



## Petes12 (Jul 29, 2011)

kinda weird that she doesnt go over to him


----------



## Rod (Jul 29, 2011)

I thought this particular imagery is superb for a couple of reasons:

1) In a genious way, it just fits in a very dark and revolting manner to the the second issue, how Gordon wished the girl to survive, how "Joker" pointed they never listen, this is just now fascinating to comprehend but nevertheless with a big amount of remorse included for doing so. It's almost like you don't wish to dig deeper afraid of what expects you.

2) This also just shows how reality is a russian roulette with circunstances, how they react in instant desperation, the same event created two completely different figures, the very same moment lead to two opposite ways, even if known to each other.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 4, 2011)

this pretty much kills my interest in the series for the most part.


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 4, 2011)

Just read KoV after ignoring it because, well, who gives a fuck about flashpoint? All I have to say is...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 4, 2011)

Imagine if Thomas Wayne was part of Batman, Inc.

And Martha teaming up with Joker.

Of course, Harley would try to kill her.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 4, 2011)

You know I kinda feel sad tha Thomas Batman is going away...they seriously need to bring him back at some point...just handwave him as being from an alternate reality.


----------



## hehey (Aug 8, 2011)

this is just amazing.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 8, 2011)

I can't wait for #9


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 8, 2011)

Batman doesn't take shit from schoolgirls.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 8, 2011)

Now THAT's a cover.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 8, 2011)

Everyone was Kung-Fu fighting ...


----------



## Castiel (Aug 9, 2011)

seriously, check this shit out.

general morrison interview on all his projects and whatnot

this stood out to me


> CA: So we'll see a lot more of her and Ra's and...?
> 
> GM: We'll see a bit more of those characters, because... I don't like Ra's al Ghul much, and I think it was actually a good idea to get rid of him.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 9, 2011)

Gaddaaaaaaaaayum. Batman smacks her right in the kisser,


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2011)

Red Robin, Batgirl and 'Tec all ended today. I thought they all did a pretty good job wrapping up. Batgirl and RR both did well considering they had to be done kinda last minute.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 10, 2011)

STEPHANIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2011)

The end of Red Robin was kinda weird for me, because for a while I haven't really been a fan of how "dark" Tim was in his general philosophy and planning. But the last issue kinda made me like questionable methods Tim. The crazy elaborate possible death trap for Boomerang was sweet.

Batgirl was just awesome for so many reasons. One of them certainly being Red Lantern Damian.

But 'TEC was amazing. I can wholeheartedly say that it is up there with Wolfman's best in terms of delivering defining arcs for Dick Grayson. And I love how he's not only created a rogue on par with any of the greats, but he's created a rogue that perfectly mirrors Dick.

Its gonna be sad to see Snyder writing Bruce instead of Dick.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2011)

Not that sad!


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2011)

Well yea, because its still Snyder on Batman (awesome), but part of me wants him to keep writing grayson as he transitions back to nightwing.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 10, 2011)

I'd honestly rather see what he does with Bruce. He kinda told the dick grayson story he wanted to tell.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2011)

The Killing Joke tie.

Hail Snyder.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 10, 2011)

In one arc he pretty much made James Jr. Grayson's Joker. But at the same time im scared for anyone else to write him.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 11, 2011)

Does anyone know when Damian wears this outfit? And is it permanent?


----------



## Penance (Aug 11, 2011)

Ah, Detective 881...


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 11, 2011)

Battle for the cowl maybe?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 11, 2011)

I think thats from the first issue of Red Robin.

I remember this because im pretty sure he's referring to Tim in that sentence ha.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 11, 2011)

Does Damian _ever_ look ten?

Because he looks 15 in that pic. At least. And he looks 18 in the last TT issue


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2011)

Very occasionally.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 11, 2011)

He looks ten in Batgirl and Batman and Robin...


----------



## ghstwrld (Aug 11, 2011)

Never forget.


----------



## shit (Aug 11, 2011)

oh rite, so Damian's gonna be Robin with Bruce after the renumberan?
did something happen to make Bruce cool with teaming up with Damian?
cuz he said shortly after he came back that he wasn't cool with that.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2011)

I guess he decided to be a semi-responsible dad or something.


----------



## shit (Aug 11, 2011)

weird         .


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Never forget.



also god i HAD forgotten!


----------



## Bender (Aug 11, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Never forget.



I can't believe that, that was Damian in Batman: Black Glove. I mean seriously?


----------



## shit (Aug 11, 2011)

that's a manly chin for a ten year old


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 11, 2011)

Penance said:


> Ah, Detective 881...


No...



The Pink Ninja said:


> Battle for the cowl maybe?


 er, I know it's not that.




Whip Whirlwind said:


> I think thats from the first issue of Red Robin.
> 
> I remember this because im pretty sure he's referring to Tim in that sentence ha.


Yeah found it thanks.

I prefer the costume like that, guess it was an 'early draft'. I guess we won't be seeing it again.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2011)

its the same costume just with poorly drawn gloves


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 11, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> its the same costume just with*out* poorly drawn gloves


And sleeves. So he's not wearing a vest.

And I guess he's drawn bigger/older which makes it seem better.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 11, 2011)

haha oh yea, shit gloves and a coloring error, awesome.


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

I would have loved to see Damian remain as Dick's sidekick. Nightwing and Robin doesnt sound that bad.

Bruce could just call Tim (or even Cass) as backup when needed!


----------



## LIL_M0 (Aug 12, 2011)

Baaaw, my continuity is gone.


----------



## Slice (Aug 12, 2011)

Its more like:

"My continuity is gone and they _still_ cant manage to change certain things like Robin beeing exclusively the Batman sidekick"


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 12, 2011)

Hmm i'm not really satisfied with the ending to Red Robin...It didn't really wrap anything up, and his relationships with Tam and Lynx are left hanging 

Batgirl on the other hand...now that's a way to go out.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2011)

RR was meh. Love the art, though. Baby Tim. pek



ghstwrld said:


> Never forget.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

It wasn't a bad way to end it considering they were given short notice.


----------



## hehey (Aug 12, 2011)

ghstwrld said:


> Never forget.





Bender said:


> I can't believe that, that was Damian in Batman: Black Glove. I mean seriously?


this is fucking unbelievable,


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 12, 2011)

Yea the artist that issue was really terrible


----------



## Bender (Aug 12, 2011)

shit said:


> that's a manly chin for a ten year old



They grow up so fast.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 13, 2011)

:rofl



MANLY.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 13, 2011)

Chin denotes manliness.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 16, 2011)

*Batman Earth One*

Finally...but don't like the cover that much.

*Batman Earth One* out 8th May 2012


----------



## Slice (Aug 16, 2011)

I am not the least excited for this.
Maybe it proves me wrong but the Superman earth one book has killed my interest in this project.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 16, 2011)

Its about time.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 17, 2011)

Slice said:


> I am not the least excited for this.
> Maybe it proves me wrong but the Superman earth one book has killed my interest in this project.


Odd.

My hardcover S:EO is the only comic that non-comic readers usually appreciate from my bookshelf (and I've got a large one: my own books plus the ones I inherited when both Imran and my granddad died, plus any number of 'borrowed' books). In fact, it isn't there right now.

On second thoughts, that's not so odd. You're speaking as an old-time comics reader, when DC was really targeting the book at newbies.


----------



## mow (Aug 17, 2011)

I finally got around to reading that Superman: Earth One the other day on Borders

fucking hell, I dont even wanna pirate that shit.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2011)

I would love to see a non comic newbie explain to me why Earth One is good. Honestly, for a good 1/2 of the book I was like "huh, this is okay". But then.....that villain, good god was that villain just horrible.

Honestly, Jimmy Olsen was my favorite character in S:EO


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 17, 2011)

He's just generic, I don't really get the blatant hate.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 17, 2011)

Johns and Frank? I suppose that's not a bad choice. Johns' Batman has never really stood out to me much (he rarely does him), but you have a really good artist (I like Frank's work a lot) and a top-flight writer. I can at least hope it won't be as emo as S:EO.

And that Jimmy Olsen back-up story or whatever it was that looked a lot like Amanda Conner's work was great. Jimmy can be a real fun character when you focus less on him being sort of an ordinary guy and more on him being a sidekick without a superhero getting into wacky situations. Robinson wasn't bad with a darker Jimmy Olsen story, but I really love the quick, light stuff that you can do with him.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 17, 2011)

I kinda prefer normal guy jimmy to all the times they try and prove how cool and brave he is which just makes me roll my eyes at how badly they're trying to keep him at all relevant.

Morrison said his take on them would be that Superman's friends with him as Clark, in a sort of geek friendship way, and, surprise, I like that tons more.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 17, 2011)

Gah I loved Spencer's Olsen back up. I'd love to see more of that in the future. Just Jimmy getting into wacky shenanigans.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 18, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> Finally...but don't like the cover that much.
> 
> *Batman Earth One* out 8th May 2012



Eh. Alright, I suppose.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 18, 2011)

Watch yourself the art in this is very _different_ and honestly quite bad.


*Spoiler*: _Batman Inc #8 Preview_ 











The return of Digital Justice?


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 18, 2011)

What the fuck is that? It reminds me of that random CGI Courage episode.

The only time that style worked was in X-Force, and that artist did it better.


----------



## Bender (Aug 18, 2011)

Shit looks like Batman meets Tron.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 18, 2011)

well good to know SOMEONE'S drawn it.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 18, 2011)

looks terrible


----------



## Bender (Aug 18, 2011)

^

What you hate Tron?


----------



## Taleran (Aug 18, 2011)

It doesn't look like Tron it looks like a 90s video game. This is 2011 Video games look better now.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 19, 2011)

Scott Snyder said:
			
		

> I love how badass Bruce is. There are all these moments in the cowl when he’s flat out scary as fuck. Silent moments too, moments when Dick would’ve said something confrontational or even darkly witty. Bruce has this intimidation factor that you can feel. Not that he doesn’t have some good one-liners, especially in narration. It’s just very exciting to feel how different they are, but the idea is that whether Bruce has been Batman for 5 years 20 years or a hundred years, Gotham is a city that dates back to colonial days. It’s much much older. And so what if it really hasn’t even been paying attention to him. What if just now, it turns this big stone eye to him, and decides it’s time to crush him and the bat-family once and for all? What if Gotham doesn’t belong to the bat? What if -maybe- it belongs to something else? And has for a long time. It’s like our Long Halloween or Hush. And I promise there’ll be big revelations about the history of the Wayne family, the Grayson family things hidden in the architecture of Gotham, the history… I’m really excited about it. Hope you all will tell me what you think! Because for me, that’s one of Bruce’s big achilles heels in some ways. His confidence in his knowledge of the city. There couldn’t be something big & dark he doesn’t know about, because he’s him. but if there were… hidden, it’d sure be a battle for him (in all ways), as though it were a weakness. Go for the throat, attack the thing you love the most about them. With Dick, in TEC, it was his optimism, his sense of empathy, compassion, his relationships with allies. The city tries to convince him that is a weakness. If he’s going to survive, he needs to fight to disprove that with everything he’s got. For Bruce, here, for me, what I love most is his confidence. He’s one of the few superheroes with resources, not powers. He’s got something that coudl actually be put to good use, bestowed on others. But he chooses to do this crazy, pathological, wonderful thing. It’s all he has, being the guardian of Gotham. The best there is. So what if the city he depends on -it’s always given him the demons he’s asked for, right? – suddenly reveals itself as a stranger.



Or, if you're looking for a shorter summary: AWESOME


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 19, 2011)

In some ways it sounds a bit like all the doctor hurt stuff up to when RIP ended, except with a focus on the city's history/character which Snyder really seems to like.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 19, 2011)

It seems Snyder really likes the 'city as character' angle. Though I'm thinking he already did that (awesomely) with Dick, I'm curious to see how he goes at it this time, what new wrinkle he can come up with.

I mean, Scott Snyder has earned my trust a thousand times over already.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 19, 2011)

It is very similar to what he's done with 'TEC, but Bruce and Dick are two very different characters. Enough so that even with the same concept the story will still be original.

And like you said, in Snyder we trust. Can't wait to get some stuff signed by him tomorrow.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 19, 2011)

Cities really should be treated more like this. I'd love to see looks at Metropolis, Gotham, and a few of the others. You know, turn them into something other than just names that I read and more like a real place.

But I'm also a history guy, so that's probably my inner dork talking.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 19, 2011)

No I'm with you. It would be good to get a better sense of what Metropolis is like, other than just a generic city. Maybe emphasize the whole 'city of tomorrow' thing, give it a near future vibe, ots of new technology around the city etc.


----------



## illmatic (Aug 23, 2011)




----------



## Cromer (Aug 23, 2011)

Some nice looks in there.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 23, 2011)

I like Amy Reeder's art.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 23, 2011)

The Grand Unified Theory of Frank Miller's Batman: Will, Hope and Tenderness


So good.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 23, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> No I'm with you. It would be good to get a better sense of what Metropolis is like, other than just a generic city. Maybe emphasize the whole 'city of tomorrow' thing, give it a near future vibe, ots of new technology around the city etc.



I feel like this is one advantage DC has over Marvel that they never really use. I mean, for all intents and purposes Marvel has 1 city. And its not like you could come up with a crazy new characterization for New York.

DC can actually make their cities characters themselves, but they never seem to really take advantage of that.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 23, 2011)

They gave star city a giant star forest


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 24, 2011)

Batman Inc 8, not sure how to feel about it. I just don't think anyone can really make tron style internet stories interesting at all, not even Morrison. Maybe with an artist that would make it seem more fantastical and less, well, tron-ish

It includes an important revelation though, one that I think was meant for issue 9 or 10 but got pushed up since those are now releasing after the relaunch, I think together as a big one shot.


----------



## Parallax (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm sure it was 10.  Man I really hate what they did with Inc over the past few months

but honestly it was all the goddamn delays that really did them in.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 24, 2011)

Ninja Man-Bats are just not reliable at all.


----------



## Penance (Aug 24, 2011)

That Artwork...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 24, 2011)

Yea that whole page was pretty awesome for Cass fans. I was really surprised by how utterly blatant it was.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 25, 2011)

I thought Tim and Cass were like brother and sister?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 25, 2011)

Originally, they were going to be a couple after Cassandra moved to Bludhaven.

Then Infinite Crisis and the editorial decree happened. . .


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 25, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Originally, they were going to be a couple after Cassandra moved to Bludhaven.
> 
> Then Infinite Crisis and the editorial decree happened. . .



Huh, never knew that was the plan. I mean obviously there was a moment or two in that arc, but I didn't know that was the writers original intent.

I'd honestly be fine with it, although a lot of Tim and Cass fans hate them together (for silly reasons).

Also, I feel like if that were to happen DC would HAVE to acknowledge that Steph and Cass are such good friends,which would be nice.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 25, 2011)

i gotta admit I don't mind they didn't do that just cus it seems so silly that 2 generations of robin and batgirl would date


----------



## Cromer (Aug 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i gotta admit I don't mind they didn't do that just cus it seems so silly that 2 generations of robin and batgirl would date




Exactamundo!  Dick and Babs is one thing, then Tim and Cass as well? (Not to mention Jason picking up Dick's sloppy seconds , and that creepy Damian/Steph 'thing')


----------



## Penance (Aug 25, 2011)

^It's tradition...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> i gotta admit I don't mind they didn't do that just cus it seems so silly that 2 generations of robin and batgirl would date



2 generations of Robin and Batgirl have already dated, its just that the batgirl wasn't yet batgirl at the time.

Mostly, I just want to see Cass date somebody again, since it was pretty funny the first time around.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 25, 2011)

she's too well-adjusted now for it to be funny, and to be fair tim and steph haven't ever been robin and batgirl at the same time.


----------



## Cromer (Aug 25, 2011)

Penance said:


> ^It's tradition...


What...creepy i*c*st-like ephebophile-like relationships? 



Or Jason getting sloppy seconds?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't care about them being "related", I just don't think they'd work.



Cromer said:


> Exactamundo!  Dick and Babs is one thing, then Tim and Cass as well? (Not to mention Jason picking up Dick's sloppy seconds , *and that creepy Damian/Steph 'thing*')


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 25, 2011)

Cromer said:


> and that creepy Damian/Steph 'thing')



it's not creepy there's nothing like that going on, they're just awesome together in a brother/sister quarelling way 

And suddenly I'm annoyed that that whole relationship will be gone between the new/old batgirl and damian.


----------



## Slice (Aug 25, 2011)

Cromer said:


> that creepy Damian/Steph 'thing'






gabzilla said:


>




I just _*knew*_ this was going to come from you.


----------



## hehey (Aug 25, 2011)

lol, by the way you must remember that originally Batgirl and batwoman were created for the sole purpose to be love interests for Batman and Robin, all because some guy back in the day, long before i and many of you im sure were born, started making the public think there were gay undertones in Batman comics between Batman and Robin so they decided to introduce these girls as love interests to prove them wrong.... i think they even got rid of Alfred for a while and replaced him with Dick Graysons aunt for similar reasons (mansion is a sausage fest).

Batgirl dating Robin?, its the natural order of the universe.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> it's not creepy there's nothing like that going on, they're just awesome together in a brother/sister quarelling way
> 
> *And suddenly I'm annoyed that that whole relationship will be gone between the new/old batgirl and damian*.



I hope they don't try to force it so they have the same dynamic. Barbara is very different from Steph.



Slice said:


> I just _*knew*_ this was going to come from you.





When he's older, of course.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 25, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Mostly, I just want to see Cass date somebody again, since it was pretty funny the first time around.



She had someone who caught her eye near the end of her series.

And he and the rest of Cassandra's supporting cast all died when Bludhaven was nuked. . .

And fuck the guy Beechen introduced.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 25, 2011)

Cass/Steph FTW.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> I hope they don't try to force it so they have the same dynamic. Barbara is very different from Steph.



well yeah. but now there's a total lack of any dynamic.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 25, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> She had someone who caught her eye near the end of her series.
> 
> And he and the rest of Cassandra's supporting cast all died when Bludhaven was nuked. . .
> 
> And fuck the guy Beechen introduced.



I remember that guy, he was alright. But the supercrush issues of the series were definitely some of my favorites. Particularly the moments where we got to see overprotective batdad.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 25, 2011)

honestly i thought overprotective batdad was pretty lame :\


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 25, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> well yeah. but now there's a total lack of any dynamic.



I don't know. If they interact, they will have _some_ sort of dynamic. I think Babs will ignore him and Damian will either do the same or just nor like her. He doesn't seem to respect her much as Oracle. And Babs doesn't have the patience to deal with somebody like Damian. 

I'm curious about how Damian will react to the change - if they keep Cass and Steph's past as Batgirls, of course. He may not like Steph much, but he respects her a little and she is the only Batgirl he worked with.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 26, 2011)

Well he worked with Cass recently in Gates of Gotham. They got along pretty well, except with Cass's usual lack of talking and Damian usual assholishness.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 26, 2011)

Regardless, I'll be surprised if there's any substantial place for Cassandra and Stephanie in the DCnU, whatwith Barbara being Batgirl again.


----------



## hehey (Aug 26, 2011)

World Finest # 297


----------



## Guy Gardner (Aug 26, 2011)

"Bruce, I can't quit you!"


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 27, 2011)

hehey said:


> World Finest # 297



Bromance


----------



## typhoon72 (Aug 27, 2011)

I can see that panel becoming pretty popular 

/Forever alone


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Aug 27, 2011)

wow, the boy scout was even more sensitive back in the day.


didn't think that was possible.


----------



## hehey (Aug 28, 2011)

nice


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 28, 2011)

Is Damian still 10?


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 28, 2011)

yes.

oh god that art...


----------



## Parallax (Aug 28, 2011)

jesus that's terrible

honest to god that is just grotesque to look at


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 28, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> Is Damian still 10?



In that picture? Uh...

I heard they are making him 12 in the DCnU, but with comic time, you never know.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 28, 2011)

I was joking...I know he's meant to be 10.

But still, he doesn't even look 12 in the image.

If he's 12 in the DCnU then I guess the whole universe is maybe 2 years later?


----------



## Penance (Aug 28, 2011)

Gg, Damian...you're all growed up, nao...


----------



## Cromer (Aug 30, 2011)

That's from what?


----------



## Emperor Joker (Aug 30, 2011)

Cromer said:


> That's from what?



Teen Titans 99 lol, they're fighting Superboy Prime again


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

Uh, for some strange reason Gail went all fangirling on Scott Snyder:



			
				Gail Simone said:
			
		

> Ha Ha Ha, I Just Read Batman #1
> 
> 
> 
> ...






			
				Gail Simone said:
			
		

> I have to tell a funny story, even though it makes me look like an idiot.
> 
> At the Batman panel, I gather there was a little stress before the panel that I completely missed, so some of the panelists were a little flustered, and they were already all exhausted because, well, it's SDCC. We were all tired.
> 
> ...



O.o...


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Eh. The art looks good, so I will be checking it.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Eh. The art looks good, so I will be checking it.



Your opinion on Snyder's Batman is "Eh"? B-b-but its Snyder!


----------



## Parallax (Aug 31, 2011)

Yeah Snyder has been the best Batman writer over the past few months

bar none

besides Action Comics that is the one other title I'm really looking forward to


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Rod said:


> Uh, for some strange reason Gail went all fangirling on Scott Snyder:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's not strange, everyone's fangirling over him. 

I heard him on some podcast thing, he gave the same sort of pitch shes describing and it did sound very good and he does sound really into it in a way that makes you really want to see what he's talking about.

it's annoying that Batman's one of the later books in the month.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Honestly hearing him speak at the 52 panel at the Baltimore Comic Con was incredible. He really really seems into it. Also, he mentioned how his son (who's like 5 I think) actually believes that his job is telling Batman what to do.

Like he goes into the DC building, sits down with Batman, and is like "Well Bats, here's what we have on the agenda today."

Tell me that isn't ridiculously adorable.


----------



## tari101190 (Aug 31, 2011)

I wish Snyder was doing Detective Comics not Batman. I want to read allmost stand alone mystery/noir stories but I feel the Batman title will mingle with the main title storylines too much. I wanted to minmise how many comics I bought.


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> That's not strange, everyone's fangirling over him.
> 
> I heard him on some podcast thing, he gave the same sort of pitch shes describing and it did sound very good and he does sound really into it in a way that makes you really want to see what he's talking about.
> 
> it's annoying that Batman's one of the later books in the month.



Yeah P12, but I've to confess am quite surprised since it's one of the few opportunities that have seen Gail react like that towards another project and be so open about that. More in this way I meant.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Your opinion on Snyder's Batman is "Eh"? B-b-but its Snyder!



I liked Gates, and he was good in Detective comics. But I really _really_ hated the Jim Jr story.


----------



## Taleran (Aug 31, 2011)

Also that story got SEVERELY kneecapped by the reboot. Rushed as shit ending.


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

Otoh, we got to see him writing Bruce sooner.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

tari101190 said:


> I wish Snyder was doing Detective Comics not Batman. I want to read allmost stand alone mystery/noir stories but I feel the Batman title will mingle with the main title storylines too much. I wanted to minmise how many comics I bought.



He'll be doing a long story but it won't be crossing over into other books I can almost guarantee that.


----------



## Petes12 (Aug 31, 2011)

Taleran said:


> Also that story got SEVERELY kneecapped by the reboot. Rushed as shit ending.


'tec? It was always planned to be that length. The only change they made was doing a double size issue instead of 2 separate ones for the finale.

And why Gab?


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> 'tec? It was always planned to be that length. The only change they made was doing a double size issue instead of 2 separate ones for the finale.
> 
> And why Gab?



Why I hated it? I felt that turning Jim Jr into a psycho was cliched, trite and in bad taste.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Meh, I'm fine with it, its not like he radically changed the character (since James Jr. never had a character to begin with).

Also, while tragic, I like the idea of Gotham shitting around Gordon more than anyone else. I mean between Babs, his wife, and now his son, the town really has it out for him.


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

One interesting thing been reading about ongoing Batbooks is how people are on the fence yet regarding Tony Daniels (as you can notice as of now in most forums around). 

Nonetheless he (TD) has quite the pressure, Azzarelo got unexpected success (well not that unexpected considering who) and people are already claiming if Brian could in a near future take over one of the batbooks for a chance, what also would of demand free time from WW office.


Not too much into speculation but heck 2012 could be a year of stellar team for the bat-office...

Imagine the meeting Gail describes and in thar in table lies:

Grant Morrison
Brian Azzarelo
Geoff Johns
Gail Simone 
Paul Tomasi

_"so yeha guys, let's discuss Batman"._

:|


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 31, 2011)

Shit if Azzarello could do it and Tony Daniels was willing to admit that he's not that great of a writer I'd love to see 'TEC by Azzarello/Daniels.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Meh, I'm fine with it, its not like he radically changed the character (since James Jr. never had a character to begin with).
> 
> Also, while tragic, I like the idea of Gotham shitting around Gordon more than anyone else. I mean between Babs, his wife, and now his son, the town really has it out for him.



My problem is that is getting old. What is the next shitty thing you can do to Jim Gordon? Oh wait, nobody has been raped in his backstory yet! Sorta. Let's do that!


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

Welllll, its knda a big point of discussion if Babs was raped by Joker. ;0


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2011)

Rod said:


> Welllll, its knda a big point of discussion if Babs was raped by Joker. ;0



I believe it was confirmed by the writer than she wasn't.

Jim, on the other hand...


----------



## Rod (Aug 31, 2011)

yeah its kinda of the discussion tho, Alan says he never intended she was raped but there's quite this whole historic against him, I remember at some point there was this psychologist analysing Babs reaction etc (talking about a real folk), and that for sure indicated a victim of such crime. O.o.....


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> My problem is that is getting old. What is the next shitty thing you can do to Jim Gordon? Oh wait, nobody has been raped in his backstory yet! Sorta. Let's do that!



Well the whole point, as snyder sees it anyway, is that gotham's challenging the heroes. In this story that being Dick and Gordon. It's not like Gordon's exactly the only one. 

Also worth it for the nice moment with Gordon catching his son on the bridge, clever callback to Year One. Sorta implying that for better or worse he'll be there for Jim from now on when he wasn't before (or that's how I read it). 

It's hard to get mad at Snyder for putting the characters through the ringer when he does it so well :S


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Well the whole point, as snyder sees it anyway, is that gotham's challenging the heroes. In this story that being Dick and Gordon. It's not like Gordon's exactly the only one.
> 
> Also worth it for the nice moment with Gordon catching his son on the bridge, clever callback to Year One. Sorta implying that for better or worse he'll be there for Jim from now on when he wasn't before (or that's how I read it).
> 
> It's hard to get mad at Snyder for putting the characters through the ringer when he does it so well :S



There's "character facing trials and being good despite everything sucking" and there's "tragedy for the sake of tragedy".

I'm not getting mad at the writer, I just hate the story.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

I kinda think it was the former but whatever!


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

PS: I need you to explain to me the crossdressing robins lol. Where did that come from?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 1, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Honestly hearing him speak at the 52 panel at the Baltimore Comic Con was incredible. He really really seems into it. *Also, he mentioned how his son (who's like 5 I think) actually believes that his job is telling Batman what to do.*
> 
> Like he goes into the DC building, sits down with Batman, and is like "Well Bats, here's what we have on the agenda today."
> 
> Tell me that isn't ridiculously adorable.



Now ain't that something.

"Honey, what are you going to do today at work?"

"I'm gonna make Batman do this and that."


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 1, 2011)

Best dad ever. Imagine "Bring your dad to school" day.

Boy 1: My dad is a designer
Boy 2: My dad is an astronaut
Boy 3: Well, my dad tells Batman what to do. 



Petes12 said:


> PS: I need you to explain to me the crossdressing robins lol. Where did that come from?



Both Dick and Tim (and Jason, if I'm not mistaken) had to crossdress for missions back in the day.

A doctor even hits on Tim XD


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 1, 2011)

Haha I don't think I've read any of that


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 1, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Haha I don't think I've read any of that





I dont remember exactly what issue its from, but I know he later gets hit on by a dude. It's hilarious.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 1, 2011)

Tim looks pretty


----------



## Cromer (Sep 2, 2011)

Emperor Joker said:


> Teen Titans 99 lol, they're fighting Superboy Prime again


I thought Damian left the TT?


----------



## Cromer (Sep 2, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I dont remember exactly what issue its from, but I know he later gets hit on by a dude. It's hilarious.




Izzat *Tim Drake*? He looks, if possible, even prettier than Dick Grayson in drag.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't know about that. I feel like if Dick Grayson was in drag he'd still be getting hit on by straight women. He's just that good.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 2, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I don't know about that. I feel like if Dick Grayson was in drag he'd still be getting hit on by straight women. He's just that good.



Everybody is Dicksexual. No matter what he's wearing


----------



## illmatic (Sep 2, 2011)

Batwoman #1 Preview: The long awaited Batwoman series is almost here.

_For months we've been waiting for the new Batwoman series. Now with "The New 52," Batwoman will finally get her solo book. All eyes are on the character since it was revealed at her debut that she was a Lesbian. Yesteray, the Advocate ran an exclusive preview for the first issue. 
_


/squee


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 2, 2011)

wantwantwant


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 3, 2011)

I wonder if the delays were due to the DCnU reboot as opposed to writing/artist delays.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 12, 2011)

BATWOMAN hits the shelves this week


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 12, 2011)

A Batlady I can support in this reboot


----------



## Parallax (Sep 12, 2011)

About time

I'm honestly shocked it's finally coming out


----------



## tari101190 (Sep 13, 2011)

I wish Bruce had the yellow insignia on his new suit. Especially if this is an early Bruce, but not his origin.

Otherwise in this timeline he technically never had it which is annoying.

It may look out of place, but his Batman Inc suit used it in a cool looking way.


----------



## Cromer (Sep 13, 2011)

LIL_M0 said:


> What sucks most: Gotham City Sirens or Batgirl?
> *
> *EDIT:* It's Batgirl





Comic Book Guy said:


> Batgirl, for backtracking on Barbara's characterization.
> 
> See, I can look beyond Cassandra Cain.
> 
> Gotham City Sirens. . . I don't mind much. It's decent. But most people like it for the cheesecake.





Ah, the old days, when we could hate in peace.










Yes, I have a habit of going through old thread posts. Sue me.


----------



## hehey (Sep 13, 2011)

[/


----------



## Cromer (Sep 13, 2011)

hehey said:


> [/



Will the old-style madness never end?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 17, 2011)

I hope not.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 18, 2011)

_DC Comics has provided CBR News with an exclusive first look at the December solicitations for the publisher's Batman titles, including the fourth issues of "Batman" by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo, "Batwoman" by J.H. Williams III and W. Haden Blackman, "Detective Comics" by Tony S. Daniel and more!_


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Nightwing Preview



Seems pretty awesome, I'll definitely be picking it up.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

So the red eyes is a feature he turns on/off for some reason


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 19, 2011)

Looks good so far. But I dont want him to go back to fighting no names like Blockbuster or some shit, he's better than that now. Leave him the C listers to Babs 

James Jr., Two Face, those should be his guys now.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Eh, while I'd like to see James Jr. and Two Face show up, I'd rather Higgins create new villains for Nightwing that are good enough to stand with the A listers.

For instance, another James Jr. or Prof Pyg.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 19, 2011)

Yeah thats fine. Just no more fodder, thats all im asking.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Oh definitely. But honestly I didn't mind Blockbuster, he was okay. What I did mind was all of those forgettable super mooks like Brutale, those twins, Lady Vic, etc.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

blockbuster was my least favorite, them trying to sell such a stupid villain as a big threat was pretty bad.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

> "The long-awaited conclusion to season 1 of BATMAN INCORPORATED is here at last!" said Morrison. "For months, Batman and his allies have fought a shadow campaign against the deadly legions of the mysterious Leviathan, but now it's time for all-out war F a war which Batman may not be able to win. Schoolgirl assassins! Bat-robots! Nazi masterminds with Alzheimer's! Guest stars galore! Batman *and Spoiler* team to face the School of Night while Batman Incorporated travels to a sinister Cold War interrogation facility to face the mind-bending menace of Doctor Dedalus for the last time while the true identity of Leviathan is finally revealed, with shocking consequences for the Dark Knight. With incredible artwork from Cameron Stewart and Chris Burnham, LEVIATHAN STRIKES! rounds out season 1 and is also the prologue to 2012's BATMAN: LEVIATHAN F the epic, tragic, final act of a story six years long."





ffffffffffffffffffff


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Not surprised at all. Its not like she'd be batgirl in a post52 book.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 19, 2011)

I did not think it was possible for me to get excited about Batman Inc again

turns out I was wrong


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Not surprised at all. Its not like she'd be batgirl in a post52 book.



Inc wasn't supposed to be rebooted, because it wasn't part of the bloody reboot. They probably had to re-draw the whole thing.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

Where'd you get that idea? They've said from the start that the batman stuff is still in continuity.

Nothing batman was rebooted exactly, except costumes, but that doesn't mean Morrison's books aren't going to reflect the new changes


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Babs was rebooted.  And if Steph was Spoiler while she was in England, it affects the last issues of her own series.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 19, 2011)

yeah guys Gabs is right on that


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

Hardly. Barbara was still Oracle.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

As far as INC goes (and likely DC wide) they're just going to play it as she was always spoiler and was never batgirl, but was still made a member of batman inc.

Or when Babs came back Steph just went back to spoiler.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> Hardly. Barbara was still Oracle.



This hasn't been confirmed.

The Babs that appears in Inc is very different from the one that appears in Batgirl 1.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

It has. From the start Simone, as well as Jim Lee and others, have said she was still Oracle.

Thor and asgardian friends have been written different ways over the years that doesn't mean they're different Thors or rebooted Thors.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It has. From the start Simone, as well as Jim Lee and others, have said she was still Oracle.



Uh. Could you find me a quote that confirms that? Just curious.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

I can try but I thought it was really obvious anyway. She was still shot by Joker, still in a wheelchair for years, why would they change that she wasn't just sitting on her ass that whole time? There really isn't a point to keeping the killing joke in continuity if she wasn't oracle.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Eh, yeah, considering they paid more attention to how she was paralyzed and not how she recovered. I'm surprised Simone didn't even mention she was Oracle but dedicated a whole page to the mandatory TKJ flashback. People don't like Oracle because she was shot. They like her because she became a hero against all odds.

And no, it's not obvious at all. I'd like confirmation of it.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

I'm approximately 95% certain that's what I read but it was months ago and so of course it's hard to turn up again. But I recall her saying that what made barbara compelling now as Batgirl was the experience she'd had as Oracle or something. 


I know the experience level of pretty much every hero was rolled back some to make them seem less sure of everything they're doing etc and that's how I see the new batgirl, same reason Batman in 'tec has hammy lines about wondering if the Joker's always naked


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

And I didn't say people liked Oracle because she was shot. I said there was no point in keeping her getting shot, which people don't particularly like, if they don't keep oracle too which is the thing people DID like.

Everything I search comes up with that stupid blurb from the DC site she did "when people look up in the sky they'll see BATGIRL OH EM GEE"  even though I know she's talked about it in lots of other places.


----------



## ghstwrld (Sep 19, 2011)

The reboot hasn't been at all kind to any of the Batgirls, though.  Oracle never existing is perfectly inline with all of the crap that's happened.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> I'm approximately 95% certain that's what I read but it was months ago and so of course it's hard to turn up again. But I recall her saying that what made barbara compelling now as Batgirl was the experience she'd had as Oracle or something.
> 
> 
> I know the experience level of pretty much every hero was rolled back some to make them seem less sure of everything they're doing etc and that's how I see the new batgirl, same reason Batman in 'tec has hammy lines about wondering if the Joker's always naked





Petes12 said:


> And I didn't say people liked Oracle because she was shot. I said there was no point in keeping her getting shot, which people don't particularly like, if they don't keep oracle too which is the thing people DID like.
> 
> Everything I search comes up with that stupid blurb from the DC site she did "when people look up in the sky they'll see BATGIRL OH EM GEE"  even though I know she's talked about it in lots of other places.



What I meant is that they always bring TKJ in Babs' stories. People may not have liked her fridging, but the story was very popular. And iconic. And we know DC is all about iconic now.

I think Simone said Babs was going to keep some stuff, but she never confirmed the Oracle part.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

I could swear she did and I can't see why she wouldn't want to. It's not like a 3 years as Oracle is an insignificant of in-universe time either.


----------



## gabzilla (Sep 19, 2011)

Well, with the way the Batgirl acted in issue 1, we know this Oracle (if she existed) was very different from the one we had pre "relaunch".


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

It is a bit of a different attitude, because she obviously still has some issues with getting shot, but that makes sense to me given it was only 3 years ago... and sometimes its ok to say story>continuity.


----------



## Taleran (Sep 19, 2011)

Magic miracle fixing legs is always a bad idea.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Yea, but I would have liked something in issue 1 that affirms that she was indeed the foremost computer expert in the entire DCU.

It was a bit odd for me that text message forwarding was the extent of her tech use in issue 1.

Also, poring over confidential records "while her dad wasn't looking" is kind of silly to me, since nowadays those reports would likely exist in digital form and would be incredibly accessible to someone like Babs Gordon. 

The whole batgirl thing would have gone over easier for me if we saw a more tech oriented batgirl, like if she had a wrist mounted computer of sorts like Robin in Young Justice that she used for stuff like hacking cameras to get a view of the situation or turning sprinklers on to stun a room full of hostiles. Stuff like that.

EDIT: Of course, this is issue 1, so im not expecting to have everything I want right off the bat.


----------



## Petes12 (Sep 19, 2011)

I assume its because she doesnt want to overburden new readers with exposition about what they've missed out on so far.

I think I'll wait til simone gives me a real reason to be mad at her


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 19, 2011)

Well yea obviously. Getting pissed off because issue 1 wasn't everything I wanted it to be would be kind of silly.

With Gail's track record being what it is I still expect the book to be good, even if I'll likely never be a fan of Babs going back to batgirl.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 19, 2011)

*ABSOLUTE BATMAN DARK VICTORY*


----------



## Taleran (Sep 19, 2011)

That feels like a waste of an Absolute


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 19, 2011)

Never read it


----------



## Parallax (Sep 20, 2011)

yeah same here


----------



## Cromer (Sep 20, 2011)

Never read it. Isn't it from when Jeph Loeb was supposed to be awesome?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 20, 2011)

Maybe not awesome, but very good. The Loeb/Sale combo was awesome, but Im not sure how much of that is sale and how much is loeb.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 20, 2011)

has the exclusive first look at the first five pages of BATMAN #1, by Scott Snyder, Greg Capullo and Jonathan Glapion. And if you haven?t already, be sure to bookmark VULTURE as they?ll be running an exclusive interview with Scott Snyder in the coming days.


----------



## typhoon72 (Sep 20, 2011)

Snyder = $$$

I like the art too. Def picking this one up tomorrow.


----------



## illmatic (Sep 21, 2011)

*5-STAR REVIEW: Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo's "Batman" #1
*
_
Following Scott Snyder's work with the Dick Grayson Batman over on "Detective Comics" for the past year, it only makes sense to give Snyder a chance to see what makes the "real" Batman -- Bruce Wayne -- tick. Snyder delivers some great moments in this first issue that features both Bruce and Batman, and in doing so seems to be giving us a slice of what's to come in his time on this series._

Read More -


----------



## Taleran (Sep 21, 2011)

That isn't really news, especially considering that was the guy who gave Suicide Squad 4 stars.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 11, 2011)

BATMAN #1 	$2.99 	DC 	*188,420*
DETECTIVE COMICS #1 [*] 	$2.99 	DC 	*103,392
*
BATMAN THE DARK KNIGHT #1 [*] 	$2.99 	DC 	*98,389*
BATMAN AND ROBIN #1 [*] 	$2.99 	DC 	*85,242*
BATGIRL #1 [*] 	$2.99 	DC 	*81,489*
BATWOMAN #1 	$2.99 	DC 	*72,228*
NIGHTWING #1 [*] 	$2.99 	DC 	*62,717*
CATWOMAN #1 [*] 	$2.99 	DC 	*53,670*
	BATWING #1 [*] 	$2.99 	DC 	*41,382*


----------



## illmatic (Oct 13, 2011)

*'Batman' #2: Sneak Peek at the New DC Comic!*



> EW exclusive! Get your first look at five pages from the Oct. 19 issue, including some Bat-cycle action and a guest appearance by Nightwing! (Use your cursor as a magnifier for a closer look.)



Read More -


----------



## Taleran (Oct 15, 2011)

Man I both love and hate comic fans especially at convention panels. I mean I get people completely obsess over characters ages but be reasonable people, also this should be good news to some.



> On Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown: Snyder stated that Cassandra Cain will appear in Batman Incorporated in a very big way, and that there's a lot of creative interest in former Spoiler/Robin/Batgirl Stephanie Brown as well.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 15, 2011)

And there was much rejoicing.


----------



## Mael (Oct 16, 2011)

I do hope to see Mr. Freeze soon...otherwise...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 16, 2011)

> On Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown: Snyder stated that Cassandra Cain will appear in Batman Incorporated in a very big way, and that there's a lot of creative interest in former Spoiler/Robin/Batgirl Stephanie Brown as well.



*YESYESYESYESYES
YESYESYESYESYES
YESYESYESYESYES
YESYESYESYESYES
YESYESYESYESYES*


----------



## Castiel (Oct 16, 2011)

Did Tony Daniel alter his signature to mimic Bob Kane's?


----------



## Mael (Oct 16, 2011)

Comic Book Guy said:


> *YESYESYESYESYES
> YESYESYESYESYES
> YESYESYESYESYES
> YESYESYESYESYES
> YESYESYESYESYES*



Guess good things come to those who wait.


----------



## illmatic (Oct 19, 2011)

_There's the underworld ... then there's the UNDERworld_. I hadn't thought of  in that way.

The underworld you see Batman deal with and then the UNDERworld you see Batwoman deal with in Gotham.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Oct 20, 2011)

There be shit then their be bullshit both are shit but are seperated by different levels of shit once you understand that you'll know that The Underworld that Batman faces is the interesting 1 and the other one well lets leave it to the imagination shall we...

Sooo looking foward to the Future Tradepaper back for the new Batman series sometime in 2012.


----------



## Blitzomaru (Oct 21, 2011)

Since I didn't think it deserves its own thread, any of you guys watch batman: Year one? What did you think of it?

Didn't like Batman's voice, personally. Other than that, it was ok.


----------



## Rod (Oct 29, 2011)

so... I've been conjecturing about certain stuff for a while.

Although many of us pretend not to give as much as importance for nowadays things or facts than past ones (nostalgia involved), just notice:

Paul Dini writing Batman in DCAU: Critical Acclaim 
Paul Dini wiritng Batman in Games: Critical Acclaim
Paul Dini wirintg Batman in Comics: Critical Acclaim

(This folk can only go live action movies now... -.-")

I mean, jokes aside, just so how better can this get, Dini goes thru different media whose each have their own separate formulas to work but still manages to pull these incredibly sucessful works involving the Dark Knight.

In my humble opinion, Paul will (and I hope there still a loooooooooong way till that) go down as one of the most iconic Bat writers of all-time, yet to see a similar case of someone who has been so sucessful with a character like this guy. Respect.


----------



## Petes12 (Oct 29, 2011)

hes pretty good. dunno about wtfawesome or anything.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Oct 29, 2011)

Rod said:


> so... I've been conjecturing about certain stuff for a while.
> 
> Although many of us pretend not to give as much as importance for nowadays things or facts than past ones (nostalgia involved), just notice:
> 
> ...



Honestly his games are written about the same as his comics, only with lesser quality due to the nature of the media. By that I mean, the story of arkham city suffered because they wanted to cram every notable bad guy into one story.

But yea he's definitely in my top 5 just because of how dependable he is. I would love for him to go back to detective comics. It'd honestly be the perfect combo of bat writers (Paul doing episodic stuff in 'TEC, Snyder doing the deep and gritty Batman, Tomasi doing the team dynamic stuff, and Grant doing the crazy shit over in INC')


----------



## illmatic (Oct 31, 2011)

The bogeyman. The monster in the closet. The things that go bump in the night. They show up, sometimes, in a good spooky story. But what gives us nightmares, what really keeps us up late at night, can’t always be named.

With today being Halloween, we sent thirteen questions about horror to some of the smartest writers in the comic book industry to get to the heart of why we love horror. They all took time out to share their thoughts on what we’re calling the New Horror in DC COMICS-THE NEW 52. 


*Spoiler*: _Scott Snyder, J. H. Williams III, and W. Haden Blackman_ 



*What sets the Dark titles apart from the other books in DC COMICS-THE NEW 52? *

J.H. WILLIAMS III: There seems to be this unique blend of heroics and creepy ideas mixing together. My favorite thing to do is cross genres in unexpected ways to produce interesting results. Even though Batwoman isn’t really a “DC Dark” title, we do sort of fit that vein. But with a nice twist of her not actually having powers of her own, just a normal human being dealing with things that defy the natural order in the only ways she knows how.

W. HADEN BLACKMAN: I feel like BATWOMAN has its own unique place in the New 52. While it’s sometimes a traditional vigilante comic book and somewhat connected to the Batman books, it has very strong supernatural and metaphysical undercurrents. Batman generally fights psychopaths (some quite horrific), but many of Batwoman’s cases and villains will have a much more supernatural flavor.
------------
SCOTT SNYDER: I think the sensibility. We’re allowed to explore the more horrible villains, in monsters and all that, but those things sort of demand a darker emotional material to work, too, you know? Meaning, for the kinds of monsters and gross things we write about in our plots to be scary, they have to be functions of stories that are equally scary and disturbing.

*Each of you writes scary characters. But what frightens these, well, monsters? What phobias might these characters have? *

W. HADEN BLACKMAN: In our first arc, the “monster” is consumed by emotion. She’s driven by anguish and guilt, and terrified of living out a cursed existence alone. In upcoming issues, we start introducing some other monstrous villains — one fears being discovered for what he truly is; one fears failure; another fears losing power; yet another fears getting old. And on some level, they all fear Batwoman

J.H. WILLIAMS III: I think on some level that what all human based monstrous characters fear the most is losing their humanity beyond where they may currently find themselves. And if there is some outside force that does scare them, I don’t think I want to meet it.
---------------
SCOTT SNYDER: To me, incredibly. I grew up on horror comics – my favorite Batman comics when I was a kid were the horror ones – from Arkham Asylum and DKR to Red Rain and Gotham by Gaslight. But mostly things like Swamp Thing, House of Mystery, the reprints of Tales from the Crypt, Creepshow… I love the idea of having a place within the DCU where monsters dwell – a place anyone can visit but only some can endure.

*How important is it for horror and magic to have a place in the DC universe? *

J.H. WILLIAMS III: I think it’s an element that has been sorely lacking in the DCU for a long time, and I’m glad to see it being embraced much more fully. It just adds even more fantastical aspects to an already tantalizing universe of ideas. It’s so important to DC that it really shouldn’t ever be put back in the box again.

W. HADEN BLACKMAN: I personally think it’s hugely important. It provides a great deal of diversity to the universe. And some of my favorite moments in comics have been when characters from different “worlds” or backgrounds try to interact or understand one another. The tension between magic and science is great fodder for story-telling and character development.
----------------
SCOTT SNYDER: To me, incredibly. I grew up on horror comics – my favorite Batman comics when I was a kid were the horror ones – from Arkham Asylum and DKR to Red Rain and Gotham by Gaslight. But mostly things like Swamp Thing, House of Mystery, the reprints of Tales from the Crypt, Creepshow… I love the idea of having a place within the DCU where monsters dwell – a place anyone can visit but only some can endure.

*What’s the scariest scene you’ve written so far in DC COMICS-THE NEW 52? you on Halloween? Can you tease at something in an upcoming issue that might frighten readers?*

J.H. WILLIAMS III: I think it’s a toss up between a scene in issue 3 or another in issue 4. The one in issue 3 touches on deep emotional context and the meaning of loss, and how that loss relates to who we are, what are we now that we’ve lost something important in our lives. While the other in issue 4 is very beastly and grotesque and raises some provoking thoughts about different roles we play in society, all through subtext and symbolic characterization.
--------------
SCOTT SNYDER: I think a scene coming up in Batman – involving a dead person, a slowly cracking open mouth and an owl – that’s all I can say though!

W. HADEN BLACKMAN: I think Issue 3 has some truly terrifying moments for Batwoman as she faces the Weeping Woman and starts to discover the scope of the villain’s powers. It all impacts Kate on a very emotional level. And in Arc 2, without giving too much away, we have a villain who literally drools blood, and her first appearance creeps me out.

*So far, who do you think is the scariest character (that you’re not writing) to emerge out of DC COMICS-THE NEW 52?*

SCOTT SNYDER: I think Strife in Wonder Woman is one of the creepiest characters I’ve ever encountered. But the Hunters in Animal Man freaked me out, too! Lots of scary characters in the new DCU! It’s my kind of place.
---------------
W. HADEN BLACKMAN: It’s scary how good Swamp Thing is…

J.H. WILLIAMS III: I think John Constantine has the potential to be the most profound. In Vertigo’s Hellblazer, he has shown to be a very scary personality when you examine some of things he has done.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 7, 2011)

BATMAN #2 *172,428*
DETECTIVE COMICS #2 *110,789*
BATMAN THE DARK KNIGHT #2 [*] *90,445*
BATGIRL #2 [*] *75,227*
BATWOMAN #2 *74,392* 
NIGHTWING #2 [*] *65,749*
CATWOMAN #2 [*] *57,216*
BATWING #2 [*] *38,475*
HUNTRESS #1 *36,099*
PENGUIN PAIN AND PREJUDICE #1 *26,380*


----------



## Taleran (Nov 8, 2011)

Just so you know Brave and the Bold is still amazing after the show is over.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 8, 2011)

Tal did you catch that the writer for the BatB comic is writing the action comics backups?


----------



## illmatic (Nov 8, 2011)

> Horror! Batwoman faces the terrifying villain stalking Gotham City’s children. Can she defeat the gruesome monster in time to save the city’s most innocent victims? Intrigue! Kate Kane unearths a ghost she has tried hard to bury, even as the D.E.O. closes in on Batwoman. Can Kate outrun her past and Cameron Chase? Romance! Kate’s relationship with Detective Maggie Sawyer continues to evolve. But will Kate’s nocturnal activities cause a rift between the two?


----------



## Taleran (Nov 9, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Holy
Fucking
Shit_


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 9, 2011)

Wow, Joker needs to get better temps. Fucking Hazel Park hillbillies...


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 10, 2011)

Also, is anyone _really_ enjoying Huntress right now? Levitz and Scott are just in-sync with everything going on, and I love her getting away from Gotham and into Italy. Hell, I kind of want her to stay there for a while.


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 10, 2011)

umm its kind of a pretty book with zero plot progression.

and at tal's pic- the ice climber goons made me laugh


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 12, 2011)

Huntress is alright so far.

And holy crow at the Mayhem comic. Damn thing is big.


----------



## hehey (Nov 14, 2011)




----------



## Mael (Nov 24, 2011)




----------



## gabzilla (Nov 30, 2011)




----------



## Petes12 (Nov 30, 2011)

with that hazing, she must really want into the sorority


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Nov 30, 2011)

ALL THE FETISHES


----------



## Penance (Nov 30, 2011)

Just a few more weeks...


----------



## gabzilla (Nov 30, 2011)

So jealous of you, I won't get a physical copy in weeks


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Nov 30, 2011)

Seriously, don't get your hopes up


----------



## Rukia (Nov 30, 2011)

Voted for Birds of Prey.


----------



## typhoon72 (Nov 30, 2011)

gabzilla said:


>



What is this? The artist looks familiar.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Nov 30, 2011)

typhoon72 said:


> What is this? The artist looks familiar.



It's a missing issue from Batman Inc I think...not sure when it's supposed to be released


----------



## Petes12 (Nov 30, 2011)

It's what was originally going to be the last 2 issues of batman inc before the relaunch. The art there is by cameron stewart. He drew 3 issues of batman and robin, among other things.


----------



## Mael (Dec 7, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> It's what was originally going to be the last 2 issues of batman inc before the relaunch. The art there is by cameron stewart. He drew 3 issues of batman and robin, among other things.



Cameron Stewart is also quite privy it seems to art for Suicide Girls.

Just saying.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 8, 2011)

*A very distinctive aspect of your Batwoman, since her introduction in "Detective Comics," is the way you've made her incredibly pale. It's become even more extreme and noticeable in the new series. What's going on there?*

Williams: _[Laughs] OK, in real life a redhead has two types of complexions. Both are extremely pale. One version is very freckled and very pale. The other type, in real life, their skin is basically like porcelain, they have almost no pigment. This was our attempt to capture that quality. As you can see, when you see shots of her, her shadows will have tone ,but her highlights are where all the paleness comes from. I've met tons of real redheads in my life and, in certain circumstances, you notice that the person has no skin color. They go out in the sun, they burn. It's kinda that attempt to capture that.

In the current run, we've had a couple of printing issues where the colors that Dave [Stewart] did on her shadow tones, where you would see some color, turned a little bit grey or greenish or something like that, and that was not our intention. It makes her look even more white than she really is, you know what I mean? That's something we are trying to find a way to correct. Ultimately, I kind of look at her like the actress that plays the queen in "True Blood," who is a redhead, and the actress that plays Jessica, who is a redhead as well, if you look at their skin in that show, there's almost no pigment. Knowing redheads in my own life, I doubt they put much make up on them to make them that pale. [Laughs]_

CBR: *You've mentioned Renee Montoya, The Question, a few times in the first three issues, noticeably, her absence from those issues. Shouild fans expect to see her enter the book, or is her part in Kate Kane's story over?*

Williams: _We've got some vague ideas on how to deal with that character, but right now she's kind of in limbo. Honestly, we really don't know what the DC Comics edict on her character is.
_
Blackman: _With the New 52, it feels like a lot of continuity is being invented as they go along_. 

Via


----------



## Blinky (Dec 8, 2011)

Well I expected Renee to be in limbo but it's still a bit sad they don't know what to do with her.


----------



## illmatic (Dec 9, 2011)

On Sale December 14, 2011


----------



## illmatic (Dec 12, 2011)

BATMAN Group Solicits

Solicits for MARCH issues


----------



## illmatic (Dec 12, 2011)

BATMAN #3 $2.99 DC *150,984* 
DETECTIVE COMICS #3 [*] $2.99 DC *100,077* 
BATMAN THE DARK KNIGHT #3 [*] $2.99 DC *78,240* 
BATMAN AND ROBIN #3 [*] $2.99 DC *77,678* 
BATGIRL #3 [*] $2.99 DC *62,974* 
BATWOMAN #3 $2.99 DC *61,997*
NIGHTWING #3 [*] $2.99 DC *57,688* 
CATWOMAN #3 [*] $2.99 DC *46,976* 
RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #3 [*] $2.99 DC *45,126*
BATWING #3 [*] $2.99 DC *31,599* 
HUNTRESS #2 $2.99 DC *28,377* 
BATMAN ODYSSEY VOL 2 #2 $3.99 DC *24,271*
PENGUIN PAIN AND PREJUDICE #2 $2.99 DC *21,021*


----------



## illmatic (Dec 20, 2011)

> _“First a word of thanks from team Batman. All of us have been overwhelmed by the response to the book so far, and we’re deeply grateful to all of you for all the support. One thing that’s been particularly exciting to all of us is seeing how many new fans are reading the book – I got an email asking about the live dinosaur in Bruce’s cave, which made my day.  One of the reasons the new readership is so exciting to us is that we get to be the first people to introduce them to the great elements of the Bat-U – the cave, the batmobile, the grandfather clock, crime alley… And to introduce them to all the stories that came before and made us love Batman so much in the first place! So to that end, we promise to try hard to make each issue a good jumping on point for new readers. We want you to be able to pull your friends to Gotham, even if they missed issue 2 or 3.
> 
> Now, with BATMAN #4, we’ll finally learn why it is Bruce is so resistant to believing that the old legend about the Court of Owls could be true. We’ll dig deep into Bruce’s past to uncover his relationship to the Court, a group that claims to have been ruling Gotham City from the shadows since Colonial days. And as for what the Court has in store for Batman – well, you’ll just have to wait and see. But I’ll say that the horror they bring to bear against him constitutes one my favorite sequences out of anything I’ve ever written.”_
> 
> -Scott Snyder


----------



## Slice (Dec 21, 2011)

Bumping this not to spoil anything in the big DC thread:

Any thoughts on the last page reveal of Leviathan strikes? Who is that guy standing next to her?

*Spoiler*: __ 




Maybe another cloned version of Damian since he introduced himself as "Fatherless" when Damian met him first.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 21, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 it's who i originally suspected before the jezebel jet misdirect. kinda funny that the off-screen death by man-bat ninjas actually happened instead of the typical 'off-screen death where they were actually ok' thing!


----------



## Parallax (Dec 21, 2011)

Batman Inc was probably the best comic this week

I'm still having a really hard time deciding.

It was fucking great though


----------



## Parallax (Dec 21, 2011)

seriously I'm still reeling from this issue

The delays were worth it and I take back every bad thing I said about Inc's later months.


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 21, 2011)

I liked it a lot too. Though I'm not totally sure what was going on with the infinite rooms and all that.

morrison does an interesting steph


----------



## Cromer (Dec 21, 2011)

Morrison Steph isn't nearly as bubbly happy-go-lucky as Miller's version, but she makes up for that with sheer Batass (c wat I did thar ), and thusly I am most satisfied that this should be Stephanie Brown's final outing in the old DCU.


And I read it twice;didn't gain any understanding on the second read that I didn't already get on the first. Morrison not as confusing as usual, I guess. (Though, _who is that fucker standing beside the 'Leviathatn Head' on the last page anyway?_)


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 21, 2011)

he was in batman the return


----------



## gabzilla (Dec 21, 2011)

Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeph


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 22, 2011)

Loved the issue, although is this an old DCU title or a new DCU title? Like is Steph still alt batgirl? I mean Batman INC is still a thing right?

And I've talked to people about my idea for a Steph/Cass/Tim team, most agree it's a great idea but think Tim should be leader. Hopefully this issue will convince them of Steph's awesomeness.

Also, absolutely loved Tim in this issue. I feel like Morrison is the only writer in recent memory to actually write him as a detective. Everyone else just writes him as prep jesus.


----------



## Slice (Dec 22, 2011)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Loved the issue, although is this an old DCU title or a new DCU title? Like is Steph still alt batgirl? I mean Batman INC is still a thing right?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 22, 2011)

Balls.

But Batman INC is still a thing going forward right? I mean obviously batwing exists, but will Steph, Tim, and Cass continue to be involved with Batman INC? I know Tim technically already has a book, but I'd love to see him actually in character.


----------



## Slice (Dec 22, 2011)

Well have to see how Morrison handles it, seeing how he killed off Batwing and he is perfectly fine in the new DCU.

Either he tweaks his story to fit in or it remains in the old continuity making it effectively an elseworld story.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 22, 2011)

I'm not normally one for tweakage, but I'd love for Morrison's INC to be in continuity. I feel like of all the books currently out INC is the one most likely to feature Steph and Cass.


----------



## Rod (Dec 22, 2011)

Well, imo this heretic folk is JPV.


Sucessfull guess for alone win. U.u


----------



## Petes12 (Dec 22, 2011)

don't think batwing actually died slice.

i'm assuming leviathan will be in the current DCU


----------



## Rod (Dec 22, 2011)

Just a thing, are the current acts in the other books supposed to happen after Batman Leviathan, before, or during? 

hmm, hmm


----------



## Slice (Dec 22, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> don't think batwing actually died slice.



I read Dicks line "They found the body, it was only missing one thing..." as in that they found Batwings body.
It kinda fits since he was last seen being followed and looking back scared.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 22, 2011)

the finale of Batman Inc Leviathan is set in the new continuity

this has been confirmed

it's set in the new continuity.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 22, 2011)

Parallax said:


> the finale of Batman Inc Leviathan is set in the new continuity
> 
> this has been confirmed
> 
> it's set in the new continuity.



Awesome. I hope now that we have a more grounded Batman title in the main book Morrison will just go crazy in INC.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Dec 22, 2011)

You mean you think he was playing it straight up until now?


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Dec 27, 2011)

I want him to go so crazy that it will seem like he played it straight up until now.


----------



## Rod (Dec 28, 2011)

This is cool, some backstory on Bruce's training  info reunited:

固然我不想过要他的许诺




_"Trained to perfection in every combat form there is plus can incapacitate a person in 463 different ways without drawing blood."_




haha, Holy shit! And that's only accounting the non-bloody ones, talk about effective !!! 
​


----------



## illmatic (Jan 11, 2012)

BATMAN #4 $2.99 DC *133,781 *
DETECTIVE COMICS #4 [*] $2.99 DC *89,429* 
BATMAN THE DARK KNIGHT #4 [*] $2.99 DC *70,820 *
BATMAN AND ROBIN #4 [*] $2.99 DC *68,400* 
BATGIRL #4 [*] $2.99 DC *53,975*
BATWOMAN #4 $2.99 DC *52,757* 
NIGHTWING #4 [*] $2.99 DC *51,668*
BATMAN INCORPORATED LEVIATHAN STRIKES #1 $6.99 DC *43,048*
CATWOMAN #4 [*] $2.99 DC *41,023*
RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #4 [*] $2.99 DC *39,850* 
HUNTRESS #3 $2.99 DC *25,215*
BATWING #4 [*] $2.99 DC *24,053*
PENGUIN PAIN AND PREJUDICE #3 $2.99 DC *19,131*


----------



## illmatic (Jan 11, 2012)

The double page spreads of BATWOMAN #5  
Forget Batman Inc. Batwoman is now TEAM D.E.O!
Kate at odds with Bruce can make for some good drama
looking back five issues for status quo setup was a bit excessive
if Green Lantern is all about plot, plot, plot; Batwoman is chracter, character, chracter.


----------



## illmatic (Jan 13, 2012)




----------



## Afalstein (Jan 13, 2012)

"Batman Inc." is a pretty awesome idea--Batman reaching out to his contacts and essentially leading a worldwide Bat-League of some kind.  Batman's really always been meant to be a leader, and he has so many copycats, it's high time he took advantage of them all.

I'm just afraid the idea isn't going to last.  Nothing in comic books does, it seems (not even Oracle), but especially a change as big as Inc., where Bruce Wayne is publicly supporting Batman.  It's just too blatant and too close to the whole "secret identity" thing that it's nearly destined to turn back.

Though really, secret identities have ceased to be an issue for Bruce a LONG while back.  So many people KNOW who he is, it's barely worth hiding it.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Jan 16, 2012)

Rod said:


> This is cool, some backstory on Bruce's training  info reunited:
> 
> responsive
> 
> ...



But I counted and Batman only knows 165! While I know 1,004 holds!

Hold 1 -- Armdrag!

Hold 2 -- *ARMBAR*!


----------



## Rod (Feb 10, 2012)

Comic Book Guy said:


> But I counted and Batman only knows 165! While I know 1,004 holds!
> 
> Hold 1 -- Armdrag!
> 
> Hold 2 -- *ARMBAR*!


LOL! 

Well, updating the topic with some pack of Bat-related news from the lastest days:



> Dc announces:
> *Batman Annual #1 by Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV. Art by Jay Fabok *
> 
> As you can see, Snyder is gonna be tasked with the reintroducing of Mr.Freeze to the new 52!​
> ...






> *Gregg Hurwitz joins "The Dark Knight"*
> 
> 
> Writer from the sucessful "Penguin: Pain & Prejudice" is gonna be working on the best-seller from #10 onwards.
> ...





> *Bruce Wayne "rocks the bat" at top 10*
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *Batman Incorporated returns this May*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 10, 2012)

god dammit.

it might be worth reading dark knight now. i'll have to stop making fun of finch


----------



## Platinum (Feb 10, 2012)

At least it now has a chance of being readable.


----------



## Rod (Feb 10, 2012)

Alright guys, finished editing the news post above.

I've to say that despite criticism, been enjoying both Detective Comics and The Dark Knight, concerning this, it's interesting thing but I've got the feeling that all these new villains currently have some great potential (but of course that's me) includes White Rabbit, and especially Dollmaker, too.


----------



## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 11, 2012)

Bruce Wayne Aka the only batman --------> lazarus pits 

Bruce Wayne will be the only batman, we might as well give him immortality, he holds the record for most expensive single copy sold, it happened not long ago.  Quite frankly no one deserves to be batman than him, and there are countless ways to make him immortal.  If darkseid can't kill him than he's batman.

It'd literally lose half his fan base if not more, both casual and diehard fans if Wayne was taken out, leave the others in there is fine as sidekicks and other things, but batman has been established as batman.

The only character I'd accept (i'd rather bruce be it) but accept it being is Jean-Paul Valley.  He is stronger than those other guys, he fought batman and proved strong, beat dick grayson, got defeated by batman finally (he broke bane while bruce was still healing)
After he was defeated by bruce and got out of the suit he realized his wrongs and has had plenty of time to mature.

But the two aren't all that different.

Anyway whats this about bruce wayne aging, he was 26 in the 30's.  He obviously is a god at that aging process :3
But yeah, there are to many factors to put him back into it, if anything this is a gimmick to get fans then bruce will be like "nah i'll keep the title"

This isn't something that just anyone can pull off and after that for it to be considered cannon.  It'd literally fuck over childhoods.


----------



## Petes12 (Feb 11, 2012)

Lol Valley's sole purpose was to be a terrible batman.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 11, 2012)

Dick or Tim could crush valley. He really was awful. And Dick could be batman and I'd be fine with it. He's just that awesome.


----------



## Rod (Feb 11, 2012)

I really get the vibe the solely reason as to why Jean Paul remains dead is due Quesada and his harsh comments.


----------



## Parallax (Feb 12, 2012)

fuck you DC I don't wanna buy tie ins


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 13, 2012)

That's what the internet is for.

But yeah I' fine with this. I've been wanting a bat family crossover for a while now.


----------



## Blinky (Feb 13, 2012)

Well Snyder was saying all that's being done here is that other writers are free to use those guys as a plot element too. 

Hard to see if they're neccessary to read (hope not)


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 13, 2012)

In situations like this I'd be more annoyed if they weren't in other books. Like if a shadowy organization is targeting Batman and wants to utterly wreck his world, they aren't going to leave the bat fam alone just because.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 13, 2012)

> "Some books are just going to keep on going as they are, while other books, where the writer decided they thought they could use some material from "Night of the Owls" to just further or do something within the story they were telling, or tell a short story in a way that would fit the series that they were writing, those series will tie-in," the writer continued. "'All Star Western,' 'Birds of Prey,' 'Batgirl,' 'Nightwing,' 'Batman and Robin,' 'Red Hood' and 'Dark Knight' -- we're really excited to be including all of those books in the crossover. *But they will all be self-contained, too, just to be clear. Meaning, you could read 'Batman' and none of the other books and it will not affect your reading experience when it comes to the narrative in 'Batman.' You will not need to go and read 'Nightwing" to understand 'Batman.' And you really shouldn't have to read 'Batman' to understand what's happening in any of these other books.*"



 A likely story.


----------



## Blinky (Feb 13, 2012)

I wouldn't believe it if it was some big ass event but it's a story in Batman so I'll believe it for now.


----------



## Rod (Feb 14, 2012)

We were discussing this a couple of months ago if not mistaken, and as expected for around middle of this year, so be it:



> *"Batman: Earth One" (by Geoff Johns. Art by Gary Frank) Hits in July*
> 
> 
> *
> ...


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2012)

Blinky said:


> I wouldn't believe it if it was some big ass event but it's a story in Batman so I'll believe it for now.



I think to get everything you'd need to read all the books, but im sure any of the tie ins could cover:

-secret society of owl dudes is tired of batman's shit. As a result, Owl assassins vs. Batman and co.

Within the first page or two.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 14, 2012)

It never really works out that way, though.


----------



## Blinky (Feb 14, 2012)

I doubt he's going to have like, Gail Simone write a major plotpoint.


----------



## Rukia (Feb 14, 2012)

It's an interesting technique.   I honestly don't mind one event like this a year.  The Court of Owls story has been sensational.  So I am not surprised they are using it to try to move other books.

Unless Cassandra Cain shows up in one of the tie-in's... it won't work on me.  I will just read Batman and Birds of Prey and come to my own conclusion.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2012)

At worst this will negatively effect the books tieing into it. I feel like Marts isn't going to let stuff pass that will screw up the main CoO story in Batman.

EDIT: The only book I can see that would actually effect Batman would be Nightwing. And since Higgins is (appropriately) pretty much the Nightwing to Snyder's Batman, I highly doubt he would do anything not in line with what Snyder is doing.


----------



## ghstwrld (Feb 14, 2012)

> *CBR News: "Nightwing" issue #8 and #9 are tied into the "Night of the Owls" event. With #8 actually hitting stores in April, would it be considered the prelude to the event with #9 being the full-on action issue?
> *
> Kyle Higgins: Actually, in the case of Nightwing, both issues #8 and #9 are full on part of the event. It'll make more sense when you read "Batman" that month, how the timing of it all works., but Dick Grayson's involvement in the "Night of the Owls" event necessitated two issues worth of story, so that's why I started a month early.
> 
> ...


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2012)

So are books not allowed to crossover ever? It'll be decently/well written, and it's going to fall perfectly in line with what Snyder is doing, so I don't see the issue here.

And I'm sure that even if Nightwing will be heavily tied, the character will be involved enough in Batman that it won't be absolutely necessary to read the nightwing issues.

And even if it is, that's what the internet is for...


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## Blinky (Feb 14, 2012)

It would be nice if we could get one good consistent story arc here rather than have a bunch of other people pitch in.


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## ghstwrld (Feb 14, 2012)

Yeah, and other stories/books getting derailed by an out-of-nowhere line-wide crossover event isn't cool either.  And then there's the part where they try to trick readers into believing it's totally self-contained, that they won't have to  invest in lots of other stuff to get some semblance of a complete story.


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## ghstwrld (Feb 14, 2012)

Collected editions, which are supposed to be all about convenience, are rendered totally useless too.


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## Parallax (Feb 14, 2012)

I just don't want a multi book crossover


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2012)

Meh, it's 2 books. I'm sure that every book other than Nightwing will be optional. 

Personally, when there's a story involving a society of bad guys trying to wreck batman's world, i'd be more surprised if they didn't attack the bat family. And, I'm okay with tie ins that can elaborate on that other than a panel or two of "Hey, just so you know, they're attacking his allies to, because not doing so would be stupid".

EDIT: Also, anybody who didn't expect this...yeah I have no idea how one could not expect this.


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## Petes12 (Feb 14, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> So are books not allowed to crossover ever?



ideally never in direct crossovers.


tbh kyle is almost certainly overstating the importance of his book cus, you know, he wants to sell it. but its funny how he keeps totally contradicting what DC editorial tries to tell us.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> ideally never in direct crossovers.



You mean like as part of a sequential story? Yeah I would agree with that. Like I don't want to finish an issue of batman that says "to be continued in nightwing #whatever" but I don't care if in batman issue whatever nightwing talks about action x that affects the story, and if you want to see him doing action X you would want to read his book.

Like if in one issue Batman tells Nightwing to protect the mayor, then he pops up later saying "I ran into the OG Talon, but the mayor's safe". Someone only reading Batman wouldn't NEED the details of that encounter, but they could pick up nightwing if they wanted.




> tbh kyle is almost certainly overstating the importance of his book cus, you know, he wants to sell it. but its funny how he keeps totally contradicting what DC editorial tries to tell us.



Probably a little yeah, but of all the tie in books his is probably the most important, if only because like I said before Higgins seems to play Nightwing to Snyder's Batman, not to mention if this goes back to Gates Higgins would have something to tell.


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## Rod (Feb 14, 2012)

Curious as to what's gonna be "TDk's" role in this considering it's a similar book (in premise) to "Batman", a Bruce self centered per se.

Plus, about how worth is it we should wait and see, remember Heart of Hush was sold as Batman RiP tie-in even though it had basically no reference whatsoever to the event.

However and nonetheless, also a great arc by Dini, this in my opinion.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2012)

Judging from the cover it's going to shift to Tim for the tie in, since he's the only bat fam member without a bat fam book.

Which would be awesome, if it wasn't being written by winnick. *crosses fingers*


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 18, 2012)

Court of Owls.

Leviathan.

Man, Bruce has his hands full.


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## Rod (Feb 20, 2012)

Here's the deal, Snyder confirms Joe Chill, in this new 52, has never been caught.

uh-oh...


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 25, 2012)

Here we go again. . .


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 12, 2012)

*ABSOLUTE BATMAN & ROBIN BY GRANT MORRISON*


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## Whip Whirlwind (Mar 13, 2012)




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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 22, 2012)

Who is Harper Row ?___?


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## tari101190 (Mar 22, 2012)

No info about Harper Row besides being a new character Snyder wants to explore.

She's is a Batman fangirl I guess.

Probably similar to Terry McGinnis's pink haired friend, but less Oracle-ish. Just a civillian accomplice.


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 22, 2012)

In Snyder I trust.


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## shit (Apr 25, 2012)




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## Tazmo (Apr 25, 2012)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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