# Florida girl, 14, charged with strangling her newborn baby boy in parents? bathroom



## OmniOmega (Sep 29, 2012)

​


> High school freshman Cassidy Goodson of Lakeland, Fla. in her Polk County Sheriff’s Office mug shot.
> 
> A pregnant 14-year-old Florida girl delivered a baby boy in her parents’ bathroom and then strangling the infant to death, hiding his body in a box, law enforcement officials said Friday.
> 
> ...




The things stress can do to a person


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## αce (Sep 29, 2012)

> “Her son was still connected to her by the umbilical cord when she choked him to death,"



oh lawdy lawd.


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## Mider T (Sep 29, 2012)

> A freshman in high school, Goodson is 5 foot 3 and weighs about 100 pounds, police said. She hid her pregnancy by wearing baggy clothes.
> 
> Though other people had become suspicious that the teen was pregnant over the summer, her mother was “in complete denial,” Judd said.



 .


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## αce (Sep 29, 2012)

oh my kid cant possibly be pregnant

shes such an angel


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## Mael (Sep 29, 2012)

Just another Southern pregnancy.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 29, 2012)

Guys, what about the mother's right to choose?


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## αce (Sep 29, 2012)

the bait has been thrown


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## Nikushimi (Sep 29, 2012)

Step off, ♠Ass♠.


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## Shinigami Perv (Sep 29, 2012)

> Investigators are deciding whether to charge her as an adult, The Ledger.com reported.



No way can you charge a 14-year-old girl as an adult. The difference between adult and child has no meaning at that point.

9.5lb baby on a 100lb girl and no one thought to say anything? Wow. That's a huge baby even for a grown woman to deliver.


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## Rima (Sep 29, 2012)

What a bitch.


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## Elman Sword (Sep 29, 2012)

Pretty shocking stuff. 

What I still don't understand is why she would hide the baby in a pile of dirty clothes and leave it there. 

Dense move.


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## Coteaz (Sep 29, 2012)

Why the fuck didn't she have an abortion?

Oh right, the South. This is completely fine with "pro-life" (I use the term loosely) types, because none of them give two shits about what happens to the baby after it pops out.


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## monafifia (Sep 29, 2012)

What a sick human being 
Strangling a baby- what the fudge?!


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## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2012)

oh look its florida in the news again i wonder if it'll be something good?


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## EJ (Sep 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> oh look its florida in the news again i wonder if it'll be something good?



Part of the US, quit talking about it like it doesn't apply to us(the united states) as a country. Fucked up shit happens in each state.


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## Awesome (Sep 29, 2012)

> South

I have no doubt her parents were completely against abortion. She would have had to have the baby, therefore it would have messed up the dynamics of her family like she said. She didn't want that, so she had an "abortion" the only way she knew how.

This is the reason why abortions were legalized in the first place - so it could be safer and shit like this doesn't happen.


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## Yachiru (Sep 29, 2012)

I don't know what disturbs me more: The actual crime or the comments on this article demanding her to be charged with first-degree murder ._.


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## Petes12 (Sep 29, 2012)

Flow said:


> Part of the US, quit talking about it like it doesn't apply to us(the united states) as a country. Fucked up shit happens in each state.



1) I'm just making light of how often florida turns up in the news and its always something terrible

2) Last time you heard about anything terrible coming out of new york? To some extent  I guess you could say it reflects on the whole country. On the other hand, lets not pretend there aren't big differences between culture in the northeast and the south, or the west or whereever.


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Why are people fucking if they can't deal with the consecuences?
Fucking idiots.


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## Sora (Sep 29, 2012)

wow that's awful....


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## Mider T (Sep 29, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> 1) I'm just making light of how often florida turns up in the news and its always something terrible
> 
> 2) Last time you heard about anything terrible coming out of new york? To some extent  I guess you could say it reflects on the whole country. On the other hand, lets not pretend there aren't big differences between culture in the northeast and the south, or the west or whereever.



No it isn't, it's usually strange news.  It's just that when horrible things are reported on in other states the states aren't specified in the thread titles.


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## Saufsoldat (Sep 29, 2012)




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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Sep 29, 2012)

Soul said:


> Why are people fucking if they can't deal with the consecuences?
> Fucking idiots.



It's probably because she doesn't even think about the potential consequences. She's young and not wise. She probably genuinely fooled herself into thinking that getting pregnant was the last thing that'd happen to her. 

Really, I believe she may have had a sense of invincibility and self-assuredness  until she got pregnant.


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## Orochimaru (Sep 29, 2012)

Poor  kid.


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## Yachiru (Sep 29, 2012)

But charging her with first-degree murder? Do these shitheads know she would end up on death row if she gets convicted? Geez -.-


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## hammer (Sep 29, 2012)

at best it will be 2nd degree and claim  insanity.


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## αce (Sep 29, 2012)

abstinence only education>all


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Perhaps the law should start punishing the parents for shit like this.



Spartan1337 said:


> It's probably because she doesn't even think about the potential consequences. She's young and not wise.



Perhaps.
She is still an idiot.



> She probably genuinely fooled herself into thinking that getting pregnant was the last thing that'd happen to her.



Then this is a good lesson.



> Really, I believe she may have had a sense of invincibility and self-assuredness  until she got pregnant.



Only a fool would do that.



Orochimaru said:


> Poor  kid.



She is an idiot who made a mistake and couldn't handle the consecuences. Fuck her, she has not sympathy for me.



Yachiru said:


> But charging her with first-degree murder? Do these shitheads know she would end up on death row if she gets convicted? Geez -.-



And is that so wrong?


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## NW (Sep 29, 2012)

Hope that piece of shit gets what's coming to her.


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## Yachiru (Sep 29, 2012)

> *First-degree murder:* premediated or committed in furtherance of another crime



You can argue in two ways here: You can either say it was premediated since she likely planned to kill the baby immediately after it was delivered (first-degree), or you can say that the crime was committed in a moment of passion since the birth and the turmoil she faced prior led her to kill her baby (second-degree). 
If you go for first-degree murder, she will wind up on death row and her life will ruined. If you go for second-degree, she will serve a long jail sentence and probably get paroled halfway through, but no one will want to hire someone who's served a criminal sentence, let alone for murder. So either way her life will be ruined. 
Or, you can choose not to convict her at all and send her to a mental hospital instead - frankly, this is the only smart option. But given the fact that a boy who accidentally killed his cousin in Florida was given a life sentence, they won't choose that option ._.


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Yachiru said:


> You can argue in two ways here: You can either say it was premediated since she likely planned to kill the baby immediately after it was delivered (first-degree), or you can say that the crime was committed in a moment of passion since the birth and the turmoil she faced prior led her to kill her baby (second-degree).
> If you go for first-degree murder, she will wind up on death row and her life will ruined. If you go for second-degree, she will serve a long jail sentence and probably get paroled halfway through, but no one will want to hire someone who's served a criminal sentence, let alone for murder. So either way her life will be ruined.



She.
Fucking.
Deserves.
It.


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## Archangel Michael (Sep 29, 2012)

She should go to jail.


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## Tyrannos (Sep 29, 2012)

Reading the story, I can't believe someone would be so low to kill their infant right off the back.   Truly the worst thing a human can do, taking an infants life.  

This girl must've been terrified of her parents and their reaction.   Those saying, she should've gotten an abortion, well she's 14 and the parents would've had to been notified.  And being felt backed into a corner, she acted out of desperation and murdered the poor infant.

She likely didn't know about it, but there is a Safe Haven law in Florida that allows new mothers to leave their infants in safe locations like Hospitals and Fire Stations within 7 days of a child's birth, without any fear of prosecution.  And the baby would've been raised in an orphanage with guaranteed good life and education.




And out of respect, but I am disappointed with people bashing the South.   There are stories of this happening all the time in , New York, and even in Illinois.   In fact there was a case a year ago in Chicago where a young mother killed her 20 month old child.

Heck just .

So it's not a "South thing" or "stupid rednecks",  its just plain stupid people.


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## Yachiru (Sep 29, 2012)

Soul said:


> She.
> Fucking.
> Deserves.
> It.



I have my doubts about sending her to death-row or even convicting her at all. She needs a therapy. She needs care as she probably didn't have anyone she could confer with about this issue.


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

Tyrannos said:


> Reading the story, I can't believe someone would be so low to kill their infant right off the back.   Truly the worst thing a human can do, taking an infants life.
> 
> This girl must've been terrified of her parents and their reaction.   Those saying, she should've gotten an abortion, well she's 14 and the parents would've had to been notified.  And being felt backed into a corner, she acted out of desperation and murdered the poor infant.
> 
> ...





Its certainly more prevelant in the South where religious dogma holds sway over quite a few peoples lives, and its a sad thing honestly, that this girl was driven to do this out of fear of her parents.


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Yachiru said:


> I have my doubts about sending her to death-row or even convicting her at all.



She killed someone, she should be severely punished.



> She needs a therapy. She needs care as she probably didn't have anyone she could confer with about this issue.



You are a bit too late for therapy when you took a life.


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## Tyrannos (Sep 29, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Its certainly more prevelant in the South where religious dogma holds sway over quite a few peoples lives, and its a sad thing honestly, that this girl was driven to do this out of fear of her parents.



Mind proving that it's more prevalant in the South?    

And "religous dogma"?   Really?  We have to go there and blame it all on religion?    To me it's more like teenagers making stupid decisions.


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

@ Soul When a woman is pregnant her body is a wreck hormonally And even after words there are hormonal balance issue, Postpartum depression is one such issue. And how do you expect a girl who is 14, scared, and in labor to be rational?

@trannos The south is more extreme when it comes to religion in general, else terms like bible belt would not exist right, also as we have seen in the cafe a lot of southern schools are advocating the teaching of religious materials in class.

I have nothing against religion but when you force it on others... thats where I have issues. And such a climate likely led to this girl snapping, due to the stigma of being pregnant before marriage, and the general disaproval of abortions. Plus her inability to get access to them.


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## Shinigami Perv (Sep 29, 2012)

Soul said:


> She.
> Fucking.
> Deserves.
> It.



A 14-year-old deserves the death penalty?  She won't get the DP, but it's frightening that people actually consider sentencing a 14-year-old girl to death. 

Probably she was emotionally overcome, being 14 and delivering a baby in a bathroom in scissors. Considering her mother sounds like the looney religious type, is it really any surprise this happened?


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## Orion (Sep 29, 2012)

For strangling an infant? Yes she really does.


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## Mael (Sep 29, 2012)

Tyrannos said:


> Mind proving that it's more prevalant in the South?
> 
> And "religous dogma"?   Really?  We have to go there and blame it all on religion?    To me it's more like teenagers making stupid decisions.





Bam.  Highest rates in the South and Southwest, New England and the Northeast being the lowest.  Good thing is that the rates are dropping everywhere regardless.




It's Column A and Column B.  Stupid kids mixed with religious "upbringing" to actually believe abstinence works (lolz the irony).


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Shinigami Perv said:


> A 14-year-old deserves the death penalty?



She deserves her life being ruined, not the death penalty.
Well, actually I am not so sure about the death penalty, let me think about it.



> Considering her mother sounds like the looney religious type, is it really any surprise this happened?



Both are to blame.



> Probably she was emotionally overcome, being 14 and delivering a baby in a bathroom in scissors.





Chelydra said:


> @ Soul When a woman is pregnant her body is a wreck hormonally And even after words there are hormonal balance issue, Postpartum depression is one such issue.



What the fuck is she doing having sex?
What the fuck is she doing having a baby?
What the fuck is she doing killing a human being?

An "emotional overcome/hormones" isn't enough to justify this kind of bullshit.



> And how do you expect a girl who is 14, scared, and in labor to be rational?



I don't expect a 13-14 year old having sex, how is that so hard to understand?

She did it, so she has to deal with the consecuences (in this case a child), it is that simple. If you fuck and you don't get an abortion, you take care of your mistake. But instead of doing so, she commited a crime.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 29, 2012)

Coteaz said:


> Why the fuck didn't she have an abortion?
> 
> Oh right, the South. This is completely fine with "pro-life" (I use the term loosely) types, because none of them give two shits about what happens to the baby after it pops out.



If I'm not mistaken, abortion is legal in Florida. I think it's one of those states that requires parental consent for anyone under 18, though.

But lol @ all the bigots in this thread making fun of the South over this. It must be nice to have such delusions of cultural superiority over other people based on something as absurd as geographic location. 



Petes12 said:


> oh look its florida in the news again i wonder if it'll be something good?





Okay, that was actually pretty funny.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 29, 2012)

Wait, people are defending the girl?

Show me a 14-year-old who doesn't know killing is wrong and _isn't_ clinically psychotic.

She knew damn well what she was doing. Of course you can make a case for her being emotionally-compromised, but that doesn't make what she did permissable on ANY level.


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

> What the fuck is she doing having sex?
> What the fuck is she doing having a baby?
> What the fuck is she doing killing a human being?



1.Being stupid.  (Its too bad she had no access to bith control pills due likely to "moral issues" surrounding handing them out at pharmacies or schools)
2. Had no means to get an abortion, obviously could not turn to parents, friends, teachers, due to the reprocussions.
3.Overwhelmed with all these issues snaps and kills the baby tries to hide it.

To behave in that manner during delivery and after does not indicate that she was thinking this out or had a firm grasp on her situation.


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

At least, this is second degree murder.


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## Darth inVaders (Sep 29, 2012)

> Investigators are deciding whether to charge her as an adult, The Ledger.com reported.


Answer is clear and easy - she is 14 therefore indisputably NOT an adult
Very sad situation though


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> 1.Being stupid.



Then you pay for your mistake.



> 2. Had no means to get an abortion, obviously could not turn to parents, friends, teachers, due to the reprocussions.



Well too fucking bad.



> 3.Overwhelmed with all these issues snaps and kills the baby tries to hide it.



Are you defending this girl or agreeing with me? 



> To behave in that manner during delivery and after does not indicate that she was thinking this out or had a firm grasp on her situation.



I don't care, neither the law; this is murder.

Apparently the last time she had a firm grasp on something was at the dude's penis when she was being fucked by it. I don't get why some are trying to defend her.


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

Defending the girl, she had no way out of her situation, you can't excpect a child to reason like an adult. Its understandable what she did and she needs serious help not punishment.


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## Ae (Sep 29, 2012)

Just another reason why bitches shouldn't have a choice over their uterus.


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Defending the girl, she had no way out of her situation



She could... you know.
Not have sex.



> you can't excpect a child to reason like an adult.



And you expect a child to fuck someone and get pregnant?




> Its understandable what she did and she needs serious help not punishment.



She killed someone, she should be punished.
And she will.


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## Scott Pilgrim (Sep 29, 2012)

> *Investigators said the teen showed little emotion during questioning*, but when asked why she did it, she responded that she didn’t want to change the relationship with her family, Tampa Bay Online reported.



She shows no emotion after strangling an infant? She can rot in jail.




Chelydra said:


> Defending the girl, she had no way out of her situation, you can't excpect a child to reason like an adult. Its understandable what she did and she needs serious help not punishment.



Wah wah she was afraid of being punished by her parents for being a dumb bitch and having sex at 14, so she should get away with murder? Stupid bitch can fucking rot in a cell for the rest of her life.


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

Soul said:


> She could... you know.
> Not have sex.
> 
> 
> ...



Yes teens fuck and get pregnant their sexual syastems are coming on line. And being teens sometimes do stupid shit, but they should have access to birth control and abortions which would have prevented this situation, however with the extreme religious views in the south or a strict family she had no access to get help and this is what happens. And this is the result.

She is still a child just because you can have sex does not mean you can reason like an adult....

Like I said earlier she needs help not punishment, if she had a better grasp on the situation I doubt she would have hid a dead body in her own house. really?  If she was rational and malitious about this she would have delivered the baby elsewhere and dumped it... and ensured that it would have been harder to find.

Her actions indicate she is mentally not well at this time.


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## Scott Pilgrim (Sep 29, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Yes teens fuck and get pregnant their sexual syastems are coming on line. And being teens sometimes do stupid shit, but they should have access to birth control and abortions which would have prevented this situation, however with the extreme religious views in the south or a strict family she had no access to get help and this is what happens. And this is the result.
> 
> She is still a child just because you can have sex does not mean you can reason like an adult....
> 
> Like I said earlier she needs help not punishment, if she had a better grasp on the situation I doubt she would have hid a dead body in her own house really?



She's a stupid bitch and deserves to be punished, she was a twat and tried to escape being punished by her parents by committing murder, she can rot in prison.

If you take a life outside of self-defense, and can understand what life and death is, as I imagine a 14 year old should, you deserve to be punished as any other murderer.


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## Revolution (Sep 29, 2012)

Why didn't she just get an abortion?  There is a reason they are legal ya know.  Why go through an entire pregnancy, bloating belly and swollen (monster) nipples when you can keep your figure and get an abortion?


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## Mael (Sep 29, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> Why didn't she just get an abortion?  There is a reason they are legal ya know.  Why go through an entire pregnancy, bloating belly and swollen (monster) nipples when you can keep your figure and get an abortion?



Abortion.  Southern state.  Religious family culture.


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> Why didn't she just get an abortion?  There is a reason they are legal ya know.  Why go through an entire pregnancy, bloating belly and swollen (monster) nipples when you can keep your figure and get an abortion?



She had no access to them and I guess she had no one else to turn to either 

Edit: What Mael said.


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Yes teens fuck and get pregnant their sexual syastems are coming on line. And being teens sometimes do stupid shit, but they should have access to birth control and abortions which would have prevented this situation, however with the extreme religious views in the south or a strict family she had no access to get help and this is what happens. And this is the result.



Then their both are and her parents should be punished.
Stupid shit takes it's toll. Today, stupid shit claimed a life; and the killer shouldn't be punished?



> She is still a child just because you can have sex does not mean you can reason like an adult....



She shouldn't have had sex, why can't you accept that fact?
She did something she shouldn't, and that escalated; that's all.



> Like I said earlier she needs help not punishment, if she had a better grasp on the situation I doubt she would have hid a dead body in her own house. really?  If she was rational and malitious about this she would have delivered the baby elsewhere and dumped it... and ensured that it would have been harder to find.



I don't get the point besides "she isn't evil".
I don't care what she is/isn't; she killed someone.



> Her actions indicate she is mentally not well at this time.



They do help to make a case for her, a case for her to be in jail.


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## butcher50 (Sep 29, 2012)

once the sentience sparked, is it the baby's fault for growing inside and being born ?

what that place can do to a person


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## iJutsu (Sep 29, 2012)

Wait, if the mom was in denial the whole time, why didn't she just get an abortion?


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

@Soul Abstance only does not work, this situation proves it so hard.

Why can't you accept that teens will be teens and some will fuck cause they can't control themselves? And why cant you accept that if they are going to fuck that they should have the means to prevent an unwanted pregnancy and thus avoid a situation like this.

Not everyone has the self control you do...


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## Yachiru (Sep 29, 2012)

How can anyone expect the girl to show emotion.. she probably can't even comprehend what she did ._.


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## soulnova (Sep 29, 2012)

I call fucking bullshit. She hid the body on dirty laundry?? If she didn't want her relationship to change with her parents she would have dispossed of the body in the first place. Take the box later at night and throw the corpse on a dumpster or something. Of course people are going to check the fucking laundry, you cunt. 

No, simply no. 




> Investigators said the teen showed little emotion during questioning



Sociopath? Charming. Keep her off the streets.


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## Mael (Sep 29, 2012)

^Either shell-shocked or sociopath.  If the latter, commit immediately.  Better safe than sorry.


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Abstance only does not work, this situation proves it so hard.



I was able to do it.
I could have easily fucked +5 times in high school, but I decided not because it had several disadvantages.



> Why can't you accept that teens will be teens and some will fuck cause they can't control themselves?



And why can't you accept that she did wrong, _then_ she killed someone?
I just don't get it.

If this happened because she couldn't control herself, then she deserves punishment.



> And why cant you accept that if they are going to fuck that they should have the means to prevent an unwanted pregnancy and thus avoid a situation like this.



They are not in the age to fuck, why can't you deal with this?
That they didn't use protection only makes her even more stupid in my eyes.



> Not everyone has the self control you do.



Too bad, because now she has to respond to the law because of it.



Yachiru said:


> How can anyone expect the girl to show emotion.. she probably can't even comprehend what she did ._.



You couldn't comprehend that you ended someone's life at 14?
Where do you live?


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## kazuri (Sep 29, 2012)

If only she had killed a few months earlier it would have been socially acceptable.


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## Yachiru (Sep 29, 2012)

Soul said:


> You couldn't comprehend that you ended someone's life at 14?
> Where do you live?



The shock is so deep that you feel numb and you don't comprehend anything at all .___.


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## T7 Bateman (Sep 29, 2012)

Sad just sad. She felt she couldn't let anyone know she was pregnant and she had that baby all by herself. Now she could be facing many years in jail for killing the baby.


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

She was not rational at the time she killed the baby, this is not a case of teen girl gets pregnant and tries to hide it by tossing the baby in a dumpster, or dumping it out in the woods somewhere, that is premeditiated and warrents punishment. 

What this girl did was irrational to the extreme, and she needs help, and just because she needs help does not mean you get off scott free its not fun being in an institute but jail time for this girl is unwarrented.

Your expecting way too much of young teens. 16 17 and 18 I would undertsnad and agree with your stance since they _can_ comprehend what their doing.


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## Stunna (Sep 29, 2012)

What in sam's hill?


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## Kiyume (Sep 29, 2012)

Change her as a adult. I don't give a damn if she's a minor or not! Murder is murder. She should not give away with it. If they're not going to change her as a adult, a least put her ass in teenager jail for mouths. Either way, punishment will be waiting for her.


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## BrokenBonds (Sep 29, 2012)

dat whore.


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Yachiru said:


> The shock is so deep that you feel numb and you don't comprehend anything at all .___.



Easy to justify, right?



Chelydra said:


> She was not rational at the time she killed the baby



So that's why you think this should go without punishment?
Idiots and irrational people get a free pass to kill because they are stupid?



> What this girl did was irrational to the extreme, and she needs help, and just because she needs help does not mean you get off scott free its not fun being in an institute but jail time for this girl is unwarrented.



I strongly disagree.
This is a fault of the highest order, one of the most disgusting crimes that can be commited by any man. Punishment should be given.



> Your expecting way too much of young teens.



I suppose I was better than the rest, then.



> 16 17 and 18 I would undertsnad and agree with your stance since they _can_ comprehend what their doing.



I understood that killing was bad since I was 12, didn't know this wasn't the norm.


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## Krippy (Sep 29, 2012)

How can someone even live with themselves after this?

She had better get charged as an adult. Younger kids than her have been, she is really no different. Sociopathic fucks.


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## BrokenBonds (Sep 29, 2012)

I really don't like how much sympathy this girl is getting just because she's fourteen... making it seem like a fourteen year old doesn't know that killing is a horrible crime and that she "doesn't know better."


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

> So that's why you think this should go without punishment?
> Idiots and irrational people get a free pass to kill because they are stupid?


No they get help so they don't do that stuff again. Its not like she did this for shits and giggles, this is a scared teen that really has no idea of the magnitude of what she has done, whats throwing her in jail going to solve? It would likely wreck her even more, where if she were to get help, therapy and other social services may yet grow up wiser and be a contributing member of society.


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## Rima (Sep 29, 2012)

She's 14 not 11.


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## Blue (Sep 29, 2012)

BrokenBonds said:


> I really don't like how much sympathy this girl is getting just because she's fourteen... making it seem like a fourteen year old doesn't know that killing is a horrible crime and that she "doesn't know better."



I'm inclined to give her sympathy because there is no shortage of people here who will accuse anyone against abortion of "waging war on women", but the "woman" in question performs what is for every practical purpose an abortion herself, and it's first degree murder?

The refusal to recognize moral shades of grey is grating. I am pro choice, I am against abortion, and I do think this girl acted very poorly, but I am appalled by just how unable people are to examine this in any larger context.


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## eHav (Sep 29, 2012)

wait, why cant 14 yr olds fuck? by the age 14 i had already been taught all about safe sex, diseases and pregnancy, and we were given condoms in school aswell. there were barely any pregnancys at young ages. only a few bad apples that were generally dumb and morons. our rednecks


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## Lord Snow (Sep 29, 2012)

Someone in the comments mentioned . If you remember he got life in prison without parole (I felt that the ruling was excessively harsh). He was 14 years old and accidentally killed his cousin and he was charged as an adult. This girl killed her child purposefully and seemingly without any remorse, if the Florida courts are going to have any credibility they must charge her as an adult like they did with Lionel.


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## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

eHav said:


> wait, why cant 14 yr olds fuck? by the age 14 i had already been taught all about safe sex, diseases and pregnancy, and we were given condoms in school aswell. there were barely any pregnancys at young ages. only a few bad apples that were generally dumb and morons. our rednecks







Mael said:


> Abortion.  Southern state.  Religious family culture.



This.

Its likely she had no access to proper rescources in this manner. And had no one to turn too.


----------



## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Its not like she did this for shits and giggles, this is a scared teen that really has no idea of the magnitude of what she has done, whats throwing her in jail going to solve?



You are right, jail shouldn't solve a thing. Too traumatizing to a 14 year old.
Death penalty it is.

But seriously, I don't get why she should get a free pass.



eHav said:


> wait, why cant 14 yr olds fuck? by the age 14 i had already been taught all about safe sex, diseases and pregnancy, and we were given condoms in school aswell. there were barely any pregnancys at young ages. only a few bad apples that were generally dumb and morons. our rednecks



You can fuck as long as you are aware of the consecuences, and as long as you can deal with them. That's my stance.


----------



## Archangel Michael (Sep 29, 2012)

She should get charge with murder. People are acting like she some kind of innocent  little girl that knows nothing. She know what she did. She got pregnant then killed the baby and left him inside a box. She even took a bath with the dead baby.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Sep 29, 2012)

This is sickening, to say the least. Frankly, I am completely torn:  On the one hand, she clearly is not thinking rationally or clearly, but I cannot go so far as to call it insanity - she had a lack of resources and, like a fourteen-year-old would do, made a choice out of desperation and did not foresee consequences. On the other hand, I do not understand why we reassign the age for mental and emotional competence without any sort of consistency. First it is thirteen, fourteen, and somehow one can argue sixteen ensures the correct capacities? The fact is, people mature at different rates and in the cases of less-than-stellar upbringings, we do not really have any idea, as few of us are researched in the subject. Was she a 'normal' fourteen year old girl? That will likely surface in the case, and it makes all the difference. It's a tough call. Will rehabilitation ever help her work past this? I am often skeptical of that, and I would never want her to have a child again, frankly.


----------



## santanico (Sep 29, 2012)

Obviously the route her lawyer is going to take is insanity, Postpartum psychosis probably being key. PP is serious shit, mothers have killed their babies for no reason other than being out of their mind before. Now if she planned it and knew what she was doing, that's another story.

I don't agree with sentencing her to life in prison or death, unless she presents a real danger to other people or possible children. She's so young.


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## Mael (Sep 29, 2012)

Life is too much, agreed...but she will be serving time as she should.  She still murdered an infant.  She's probably not a sociopath either, unless a psych test reveals it and then I'd basically have her put to sleep like a dog.  But let's not put the cart before the horse.


----------



## Chelydra (Sep 29, 2012)

starr said:


> Obviously the route her lawyer is going to take is insanity, Postpartum psychosis probably being key. PP is serious shit, mothers have killed their babies for no reason other than being out of their mind before. Now if she planned it and knew what she was doing, that's another story.
> 
> I don't agree with sentencing her to life in prison or death, unless she presents a real danger to other people or possible children. She's so young.



If she really planned this out she would not have hid the baby in her own house. Well said on the rest.


----------



## eHav (Sep 29, 2012)

there are so many conditionants in this case..im completely against what she did, and im pro abortion in plenty of situations, however i dont understand how some feel she should go on trial for premedidated murder like she is some adult who planed for ages to murder someone..

she was affraid of her parents, probablly wasnt aware of what sex is and does exaclty, being  from a backwards religious place who probablly doesnt have sex ed at all in school other than "you shall not do it", a theres always her not being completely sane.. 

people calling for death penalty on her? really? smh


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## Soul (Sep 29, 2012)

eHav said:


> however i dont understand how some feel she should go on trial for premedidated murder like she is some adult who planed for ages to murder someone.



My only concern is that some believe she shoudn't be punished.
I don't really care what the punishment is, although I think it should be heavy punishment, as this is something sick and twisted.



> she was affraid of her parents, probablly wasnt aware of what sex is and does exaclty, being  from a backwards religious place who probablly doesnt have sex ed at all in school other than "you shall not do it"



Now this is kind of bullshit.
Being afraid of your parents and not knowing what sex is isn't good enough. If that's the case, why shouldn't the parents be punished?

It if was, people would claim that they don't know what killing really means and get a reduced sentence everytime.



> theres always her not being completely sane.



That is true.



> people calling for death penalty on her? really? smh



U mad?


----------



## Scott Pilgrim (Sep 29, 2012)

"My mommy would spank me if she found out I was pregnant, the only option was to strangle my baby and hide it" is a bullshit excuse to kill an infant, or anyone for that matter.

She deserves punishment.


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## Gaawa-chan (Sep 29, 2012)

This is why abortion should be legal.


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## Psychic (Sep 29, 2012)

When something like this happens, I blame the parents. What kind of parents must she have where she couldn't communicate with them truthfully?


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## Deleted member 222538 (Sep 30, 2012)

^ I agree

I don't think anyone here is arguing the fact that she should be punished for what she did. It's more like people are trying to say she needs more help than anything. Her parents also need a rude awakening. How do you not know your child is pregnant ? The family has some issues.


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## Tsuchi (Sep 30, 2012)

Hello, there's a thing called adoption. She could have even left the baby on someone's doorstep, this is why I don't like teen moms


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## zan (Sep 30, 2012)

i live in fla all she had to do is take the baby to any police firestation or hospital and drop him off and never look back. They cant hold her about it.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Sep 30, 2012)

Tsuchi said:


> Hello, there's a thing called adoption. She could have even left the baby on someone's doorstep, this is why I don't like teen moms



I think she knows there is a thing called adoption but fear and many other emotions running at the same time have a tendency to cloud judgement.

There are lots of teen moms who do a phenomenal job at raising their kid. Incidents like this shouldn't drive you to dislike them especially since cases like this appear all the time and not just in this age group.


----------



## Lovely (Sep 30, 2012)

I feel sorry for the baby.


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## Sunuvmann (Sep 30, 2012)

This is why birth control, morning after pills and abortion needs to be cheap and easily accessible 

The potential for a pregnancy to be unwanted is a fact of life. There will ALWAYS be a demand for abortions.

Better to abort it early on (or prevent it from happening altogether) then let it actually get to birth where its actually a person instead of a clump of cells.


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## Sans (Sep 30, 2012)

At the age of 14, you should be capable of understanding that murder is wrong. I don't think any kind of emotional distress can justify the fact that she committed murder. She had the choice, she knew right from wrong, and no amount of extenuating circumstances changes that.


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## Dolohov27 (Sep 30, 2012)

Hopefully she kills herself.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 30, 2012)

Komnenos said:


> At the age of 14, you should be capable of understanding that murder is wrong. I don't think any kind of emotional distress can justify the fact that she committed murder. She had the choice, she knew right from wrong, and no amount of extenuating circumstances changes that.



Try her as an adult?


----------



## .44 (Sep 30, 2012)

No sympathy.

She had NINE FUCKING MONTHS to figure this shit out.

She could have gotten a morning after pill... minors need a prescription (in Florida), but if she went to Planned Parenthood, she could have gotten one.

Too stupid to do that? Well she could have gotten an abortion without parental consent (requires notification, but that's it). 

Still too fucking stupid? Pretty much anything she could have done would have been better than strangling her own infant to death. She could have even done a discrete adoption program (I know underage mothers are ALLOWED to consent to adoptions; but not sure if they need parental notification / permission), or maybe walked the fuck into an emergency room and hoped for the best. 

She is legitimately a monster. A normal human cannot strangle a baby (much less their own fucking baby). Killing your own baby goes against millions of years of evolution. Every instinct should have been telling her it was wrong. Not to mention, if her family is so religious "thou shalt not kill!"

And this thread... damn:

Dumbass A - "But she had no information! Her parents are religious!"

So the fuck what?

If I don't know how to cook eggplant parmesan... I LOOK IT UP. You can bet your ass I would look up "what to do with mah baby" at least once during gestation. At the very least, before I decide choking his ass is the best solution.

Dumbass B - "But she's only fourteen! She doesn't understand any of this!"

What is there to understand? Children understand what death means at varying levels from very early ages. After ~13 their understanding doesn't change FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. Some studies show that even BABIES can tell right from wrong. Hell, small children can tell it's sad when Mufasa dies... pretty sure she could be expected to know that choking the shit out of her baby wasn't a good thing to do.

Dumbass C - "But I'm really stupid!"

Yes. Yes you are.


----------



## Kiyume (Sep 30, 2012)

.44 said:


> No sympathy.
> 
> She had NINE FUCKING MONTHS to figure this shit out.
> 
> ...



_*THIS. *_ She's old enough to know what's right and wrong. Nothing doesn't excused murder unless it comes to self-defense.


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## Kiss (Sep 30, 2012)

That's horrible. The poor innocent baby.


----------



## Kusa (Sep 30, 2012)

Shinigami Perv said:


> *A 14-year-old deserves the death penalty? * She won't get the DP, but it's frightening that people actually consider sentencing a 14-year-old girl to death.
> 
> Probably she was emotionally overcome, being 14 and delivering a baby in a bathroom in scissors. Considering her mother sounds like the looney religious type, is it really any surprise this happened?



Yes.14 is an age where you know the difference between wrong and right.Her being emotionally overcome is not an excuse for killing a new born Baby.She was selfish,just afraid to say the truth but not afraid of killing a Baby.

Maybe death penalty is too much even though I think kids with 14 know perfectly whats wrong or right,but she should get a really hard punishment for such a disgusting action.

Her Mother needs a punishment too,a way harder one for being so cluesless about her daughter.She probably didn't give much shit about her daughter otherwise she would have noticed something like that much before.(no,baggy clothes can't hide that good)

...The apple doesn't fall far from the three.


----------



## Darth inVaders (Sep 30, 2012)

Idiots calling for the death penalty when this child (who is indisputably a child) clearly deserves rehabilitation = fail


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 30, 2012)

Darth inVaders said:


> Idiots calling for the death penalty when this child (who is indisputably a child) clearly deserves rehabilitation = fail



She's 14, that may be a child legally, but she had sex, got pregnant, and instead of doing something responsible like giving it up for adoption she strangles it. She's not a kid she know's what's morally, and legally acceptable. If a 15 year old killed someone in your family should they not be sentenced because of their age? She was irresponsible and should suffer the consequences of her actions.


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Sep 30, 2012)

It's pretty natural she isn't thinking clearly in these circumstances.

Her religious retard parents might have actually managed to poison her mind to the point that she believed that abortion was actually WORSE than what she herself ended up doing.

In addition morning after pills might not have been available after she had sex, because she might not have been prepared for it at all and to further complicate matters, you cannot just blame her for getting pregnant. It takes two to make a baby.



Darth inVaders said:


> Idiots calling for the death penalty when this child (who is indisputably a child) clearly deserves rehabilitation = fail



This.


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## Lina Inverse (Sep 30, 2012)

I reckon she panicked when she gave birth to her baby

thing is though, when she banged whoever it is that banged her, she prolly didn't think it through as to what the consequences would be

and she reacted in the worse possible way too


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## Pilaf (Sep 30, 2012)

> florida


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## Level7N00b (Sep 30, 2012)

The girl's idiot mother had no idea? For nine months?  Stupid broad needs to pay mere attention. And the girl, lets hope she doesn't get off lighly if she is convicted. No sympathy.

Dumb bitch should have had her baby's father kick her stupid ass down a flight of stairs. Problem solved.


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## dummy plug (Sep 30, 2012)

> Goodson then showered with the dead infant and placed his body in a box which she buried in dirty laundry in her room, Judd said.



what, she was hoping no one would notice it? 



> Though other people had become suspicious that the teen was pregnant over the summer, her mother was ?in complete denial,? Judd said.



c'mon now, you can hide your belly maybe by that baggy clothes style but seriously, the way she walks or moves will be different too...how can you not notice this for months? complete denial indeed


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## Soul (Sep 30, 2012)

Darth inVaders said:


> Idiots calling for the death penalty when this child (who is indisputably a child) clearly deserves rehabilitation = fail



Well, that was a great argument.
I think I am convinced.



Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> It's pretty natural she isn't thinking clearly in these circumstances.



And that gives her a free pass to kill infants?
Seriously?



> Her religious retard parents might have actually managed to poison her mind to the point that she believed that abortion was actually WORSE than what she herself ended up doing.



That's why she is a danger to society.
Jail for her.



> In addition morning after pills might not have been available after she had sex, because she might not have been prepared for it at all and to further complicate matters, you cannot just blame her for getting pregnant.



Getting pregnant isn't the crime here, son.
Still, it was pretty fucking stupid.



> It takes two to make a baby.



But it only takes a person to kill one.
Am I right?


----------



## Momoko (Sep 30, 2012)

That’s horrible! ‘She took a pair of scissors to "pry the baby out."’ I’m just shocked and sickened. I can’t understand what was going through her head that she thought murder was the only way out.


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## Zhariel (Sep 30, 2012)

Oh Florida white trash


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## Petes12 (Sep 30, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> She's 14, that may be a child legally, but she had sex, got pregnant, and instead of doing something responsible like giving it up for adoption she strangles it. She's not a kid she know's what's morally, and legally acceptable. If a 15 year old killed someone in your family should they not be sentenced because of their age? She was irresponsible and should suffer the consequences of her actions.



While I think she knew what she was doing and it was clearly monstrous, our whole penal system is a failure because we don't try to rehabilitate


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## Thdyingbreed (Sep 30, 2012)

There's abortions for a reason.


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## Ultimania (Sep 30, 2012)

Oh, this is so fucked up. That monster of a bitch should be locked up for life or given the death penalty for what she did to her child. All of you people defending her need to get your fucking heads on straight. I would say more, but I think Soul has pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

And somehow, I'm not surprised one bit that this shit happened in Florida.


----------



## zan (Sep 30, 2012)

if this is the right girl....

 this pic...is kinda of wrong


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

What she has done was horrible but one has to look at the whole picture....

She is 14 years old and lives in a state where she cannot get an abortion without parental consent.  That state is also part of the Bible Belt which demonizes teenagers who have sex and do not approve of teaching sex education at public schools and birth control is not available within easy reach.


Due to all of the reasons above, of course you are going to have problems like this if you restrict teenager's reproductive rights.....She should be sent to juvenile hall and receive help, however.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 30, 2012)

Pretty sure killing a innocent baby is more unacceptable than the other options. That logic doesn't follow.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> What she has done was horrible but one has to look at the whole picture....
> 
> She is 14 years old and lives in a state where she cannot get an abortion without parental consent.  That state is also part of the Bible Belt which demonizes teenagers who have sex and do not approve of teaching sex education at public schools and birth control is not available within easy reach.
> 
> ...



You can't excuse what she did.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

One fails in reading comprehension once again .

I did say she should be punished but not the same way as a adult due to her age and the state's reputation to not give a damn for minor's right of their own bodies.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 30, 2012)

Flow said:


> You can't excuse what she did.





Fruits Basket Fan said:


> One fails in reading comprehension once again .
> 
> I did say she should be punished but not the same way as a adult due to her age and the state's reputation to not give a damn for minor's right of tjeir reproduction system.o



In his defense you were trying to create an excuse as to why she wasn't at fault in this situation.


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## Mider T (Sep 30, 2012)

Florida is not in the Bible Belt, especially not Lakeland.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

I said one has to look at the whole picture in the state she lives.  I look at both sides of the story and can understand why this happened, especially in the Deep South.

The girl is a minor so she should not receive the same criminal treatment as an adult due to the state's restrictiveness on her own body.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> One fails in reading comprehension once again .
> 
> I did say she should be punished but not the same way as a adult due to her age and the state's reputation to not give a damn for minor's right of their own bodies.



Which is why I said you can't excuse what she did. 

I don't care who you are. Are you trying to argue at the age of 14 one doesn't comprehend what they are doing? Such as killing a new born baby? I don't care how much "trouble" she thought she was going to get in, or how she felt at the time. She strangled a new born baby.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> I said one has to look at the whole picture in the state she lives.  I look at both sides of the story and can understand why this happened, especially in the Deep South.
> 
> The girl is a minor so she should not receive the same criminal treatment as an adult due to the state's restrictiveness on her own body.



Not matter where she lives there were alternatives, she could have been more responsible and gave the baby a better home, but she _decided_ to kill it, a decision she should have to pay for.


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## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

"Well, when you look at the family she grew up in, and the state"-

I can't believe people are trying to find some type of justification for this, or "see it from her point of view"

Yeah, I'll do that for the next guy that kills his wife because she cheated on him. "Well, he really loved her, and she cheated on him, which caused him to become mentally unstable, so in reality"

blahblah that shit doesn't fly Fruits Basket.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

Again, you are ignoring the whole picture and keep thinking that I want her to be scoot free whereas I have just said she ahould go to juvenile hall while receiving help .

ONE ALSO HAS TO LOOK AT THE STATE SHE LIVES IN AND UNDERSTAND WHY SHE DID WHAT SHE HAS DONE.

Understanding is not the same thing as agreeing what she has done, after all.

You understand why this happen so that there is more pressure for the Deep South to change their state laws to allow teenage abortions or access to birth control so that this will not happen again.  


HONESTLY, CHILDREN....IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND TO LOOK AT BOTH SIDES?
But alas, that will not happen for a long time because the South is extremely religious.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

I never said that you said she should be scott free. It's nice that you lecture me on my reading comprehension though.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Oh, and by the way everyone. Screw just judging the person on why they committed the crime, for whatever selfish reasons. We should look at the state they live in, the family back round they grew up in, etc. 

I mean, if a guy kills another man because he got angry and felt (disrespected), one has to look at the fact he may have anger issues and shouldn't be tried like others.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 30, 2012)

When has anyone ever not been tried because of "anger issues"?  If that's an example it was a terrible one.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 30, 2012)

Help? I doubt this was just a mental breakdown. It's entirely possible she didn't want her parents to know she was pregnant or wanted a abortion and premeditated this murder. Just because she's young doesn't mean she should be given a break. A murder under any circumstance should be treated as a murder.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Mider T said:


> When has anyone ever not been tried because of "anger issues"?  If that's an example it was a terrible one.



I threw the point towards you wide receiver, I don't see how it went over your head though.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

Not comparable considering that the guy was not subjected to state law that restricted his rights that made him do what he has done while the 14 uear old girl had state law preventing her to get an abortion or possibly even birth control

And again, I never said that the girl should be scout free.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 30, 2012)

Flow said:


> I threw the point towards you wide receiver, I don't see how it went over your head though.



Are you gonna answer my question?  If not, don't quote me.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Not comparable considering that the guy was not subjected to state law that restricted his rights that made him do what he has done while the 14 uear old girl had state law preventing her to get an abortion or posibly even birth control
> 
> And again, I never said that the girl should be scout free.



She shouldn't get off scot free, and she also shouldn't get cut a break.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Not comparable considering that the guy was not subjected to state law that restricted his rights that made him do what he has done while the 14 uear old girl had state law preventing her to get an abortion or posibly even birth control



So the state law should be in consideration with murder. Right. Gotcha. 



> And agsin, I never said that the girl should be scout free.



But saying "Well, look at the state she's in"

Based off ALL the information that was given to us, she seemed pretty damn ignorant that she could of GIVEN the child to someone and watched them grow up herself (there are methods that are implemented on a contract).

You're trying to find some justified reason as to why it is understandable she strangled her own new born baby.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Are you gonna answer my question?  If not, don't quote me.



You should re-read what I posted. Even the guy I quoted understood what I said, and saw/comprehended what I was saying. 

It's there right in front of you. Keep reading it.


----------



## hammer (Sep 30, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> She shouldn't get off scot free, and she also shouldn't get cut a break.



there is a reason murder is broken up by first and second then five or six different man slaughters.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 30, 2012)

hammer said:


> there is a reason murder is broken up by first and second then five or six different man slaughters.



I must admit I don't know what constitutes the different degrees of murder, or manslaughter.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

Way to twist my words.

The girl did what she has done because the state did not allow her to get an abortion withot parentalconsent and probably was desperate because she said she did not want to change the relationship with her family  while the guy you brought up did what he did because he was a dick and not because of desperation or violation of rights.

And once again, understanding the environment she lives in is not agreeing what she has done.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Quit trying to find some justification in strangling a new born baby.


----------



## hammer (Sep 30, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> I must admit I don't know what constitutes the different degrees of murder, or manslaughter.



first degree is planned and gets the max of life or execution. the other is when you should be rational but go rage mode and kill or if you do something stupid knowing someone may die.


man one to man three are different levels of seriousness less serious then murder 2 depending on the situation. then there is reckless endangerment if she was of sound mind which a psychologist can prove she was not.


a psychologist can easily argue, that because she was unable to get pills, a condom or an abortion, which she was not able to, you cant argue other wise due to her age, added with her hormones due to the baby. she was not of sound mind and at best would be charged with murder 2 or man slaughter, she will then either plead out or get the case thrown out.


----------



## Mider T (Sep 30, 2012)

Flow said:


> You should re-read what I posted. Even the guy I quoted understood what I said, and saw/comprehended what I was saying.
> 
> It's there right in front of you. Keep reading it.



I asked you a question about what you said, you haven't answered.  Who you were responding to has nothing to do with that.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 30, 2012)

I give up if people really think this was justifiable, or understandable.


----------



## santanico (Sep 30, 2012)

Flow said:


> Oh, and by the way everyone. Screw just judging the person on why they committed the crime, for whatever selfish reasons. We should look at the state they live in, the family back round they grew up in, etc.
> 
> I mean, if a guy kills another man because he got angry and felt (disrespected), one has to look at the fact he may have anger issues and shouldn't be tried like others.



This wasn't a guy you imbecile, this person was a female who had just given birth. What sane person decides to kill their baby when there are other alternatives? She was NOT in the right state of mind.


----------



## hammer (Sep 30, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> I give up if people really think this was justifiable, or understandable.



I understand it only because I took psychology class and did well in bio class.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Mider T said:


> I asked you a question about what you said, you haven't answered.  Who you were responding to has nothing to do with that.



Oh, ok. It doesn't take away from the fact you haven't ran for the point yet. I've already made a home run though, so it's all good.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

starr said:


> This wasn't a guy you imbecile, this person was a female who had just given birth. What sane person decides to kill their baby when there are other alternatives? She was NOT in the right state of mind.



Lol "This wasn't a guy, it was a female"

I don't think you meant to be sexist here, just the way you worded it. 

I don't care what state of mind your in, there is no justification in killing a new born baby. 

But then again, the same person who is calling me an imbecile just said a p*d*p**** was cute in another thread. Go figure.


----------



## hammer (Sep 30, 2012)

Flow said:


> But then again, the same person who is calling me an imbecile just said a p*d*p**** was cute in another thread. Go figure.



lul fallacy


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

She called me a name, so. I'm just throwing stuff in the "not needed box".


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## hammer (Sep 30, 2012)

that is another fallacy


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

lol who cares.


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## Mider T (Sep 30, 2012)

^So you're trolling.



Flow said:


> Oh, ok. It doesn't take away from the fact you haven't ran for the point yet. I've already made a home run though, so it's all good.



You're an idiot, and next try to be more subtle with your revenge negs.  Such bad debating and blatant fallacies should get you banned from the cafe.


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## Biohazard Magellan (Sep 30, 2012)

This story sickens me. I really think she should be tried as an adult. At 14, you should know not to kill, especially an innocent baby.

I really hope she gets 45+ and psychiatric help.

This story is just so sad.

Edit: Or maybe 45 is too much (or not enough). Whatever rehabilitates her is good enough.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Mider T said:


> You're an idiot, and next try to be more subtle with your revenge negs.  Such bad debating and blatant fallacies should get you banned.



Nah bruh. Only time you neg me is when I neg you. 

You shouldn't bring rep up in a thread though, I know how much you care for it.


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## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Biohazard Magellan said:


> This story sickens me. I really think she should be tried as an adult. At 14, you should know not to kill, especially an innocent baby.
> 
> I really hope she gets 45+ and psychiatric help.



No, no no

She wasn't in the right frame of mind. Plus, the state she was in, the family etc. You HAVE to understand why she did it. It's not so far fetched.


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## Yachiru (Sep 30, 2012)

Come to think of it, given the barbaric state she lives in they'll try her as an adult ._. People seriously want her executed .____.


----------



## Shizune (Sep 30, 2012)

Soul said:


> She.
> Fucking.
> Deserves.
> It.



Aye, and I hope the worst for her.


----------



## NarutoxKakashi (Sep 30, 2012)

I'm curious, does the article say the parents wouldn't allow her to get an abortion? All I saw was the girl's comment about "not wanting to change the dynamic of their relationship" and the parents seeing her as "an angel". A lot of people are jumping to conclusions about blaming it on Southern christian conservatism. Where does it even say the parents are any of these?

In any event, this is a prime example of shit parenting more than anything. I bet this girl was never disciplined her entire life for bad behavior. The mom not calling the police is fucking disappointing.


----------



## NarutoxKakashi (Sep 30, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I find this story to be most horrifying, indeed, but I also have mixed opinions about it.
> 
> On one hand, if the girl engaged in sexual intercourse and became pregnant, she almost certainly was able to understand the implications of her actions. She had nine months to decide a course of action before giving birth to her child, so she certainly must face some form of punishment, in my mind.
> 
> ...



I agree that she needs to be sent to a psychiatric center. She reeks of excessive entitlement. Maybe extreme narcissism with a mix of psychotic? Anyone willing to choke an infant to death, let alone your own that just came out of your womb, is one sick fuck.


----------



## Soul (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> What she has done was horrible but one has to look at the whole picture....
> 
> She is 14 years old and lives in a state where she cannot get an abortion without parental consent.



Seriously?
That is her fucking fault. She had sex _knowing_ that she couldn't get the abortion.



> That state is also part of the Bible Belt which demonizes teenagers who have sex and do not approve of teaching sex education at public schools and birth control is not available within easy reach.



Then don't have sex.



> Due to all of the reasons above, of course you are going to have problems like this if you restrict teenager's reproductive rights.....She should be sent to juvenile hall and receive help, however.



After a few years in jail, perhaps.



DemonDragonJ said:


> On the other hand, she is only fourteen years old, with so much of her life ahead of her, so she should not be forced to suffer for the remainder of her life because of one action in her youth.



Why not?
She took everything for a much younger human being.



> Therefore, I believe that the best treatment for her is to send her to a correction facility for some time, perhaps a year or two, with psychological counseling and rehabilitation provided during that time, and then have a skilled and competent psychologist continue to monitor and treat her for the next several years after her release, to ensure that she can operate as a functional member of society, with minimal psychological trauma and little to no chance of repeating her behavior.



Before or after the 20-40 years in jail?



> I also shall mention that situations such as this are prime evidence of why legalized abortion is necessary in society; to prevent girls and women who become pregnant unwillingly from performing such actions.



You know what else this could help with?
To stop children to act like whores.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Soul said:


> After a few years in jail, perhaps.
> 
> Why not?
> She took everything for a much younger human being.
> ...



Jail? Wow, that is very strict for someone so young. She would be anywhere from 34 to to 54 by the time that she was released, if that were to happen, and she would have spent literally _her entire adult life_ in prison, with no opportunity to experience life to its fullest, knowing little else beyond being in prison. Would you truly wish that upon another human being? And as for her killing another human being, that newborn infant had no time to develop into a unique person; her action was little different from a doctor performing an abortion, in my mind.


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## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Oh _lord_. Defending someone who killed a new born infant by saying "It may had been born, but the infant did not develop into a person yet.

I find it hilarious that if the girl was four years older, everyone would be on the side of throwing her in jail.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Flow said:


> I find it hilarious that if the girl was four years older, everyone would be on the side of throwing her in jail.



I am not objecting to this girl being imprisoned, despite my above post; I am objecting to the idea her being imprisoned for the rest of her life or for any duration greater than twenty years. As she is young, surely, there is some chance that she may regret her actions and repent in some way? She may still yet become a model citizen who can function in society if she has the proper assistance from her community and professional psychologists.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

Oh, lord how today's children do not look at the whole picture and keep imagining that I am saying that she should not be punished !


She lives in a state where abortion is not allowed for minors unless she has parental consent!  And she tried to hide her pregnancy from her family by wearing baggy clothes (and her family stupidly believed her).

That is what made her do the actions which she has done!

That does not mean I approve nor does that mean she should go away unpunished!

It means that one understands how this happen and how the state government should change its laws regarding teenage abortion and birth control rights before this happens again!

Yes she should be punished (but not as an adult as she is still underage) while state politics has to do some soul searching in order to prevent this again!

Focus on punishment all you want, but if you do not look at the whole picture (her reproductive rights violated just because she is underage)....this will continue to happen again by other teenagers unless the Deep South wakes up and allows sexual education in public schools, access to birth control, and the right for abortions without parental consent.


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## NarutoxKakashi (Sep 30, 2012)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am not objecting to this girl being imprisoned, despite my above post; I am objecting to the idea her being imprisoned for the rest of her life or for any duration greater than twenty years. As she is young, surely, there is some chance that she may regret her actions and repent in some way? She may still yet become a model citizen who can function in society if she has the *proper assistance from her community and professional psychologists.*



It definitely isn't coming from the parents. I would like to see them punished in some way for what happened. Maybe let them spend the time she would have gotten behind bars in her place.


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## Adrianhamm (Sep 30, 2012)

The Florida Abortion law concerning minors for those who don't know what it actually say. For the TLDR crowd, it states that a minor can get an abortion without parental consent but the parents will be notified.


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## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Oh, lord how today's children do not look at the whole picture and keep imagining that I am saying that she should not be punished !



Disregarding everything else that you said, who here has said that you stated that she shouldn't be punished?


----------



## Trueno (Sep 30, 2012)

1. Who decided to bang a 13 year old?
2. Was it her classmate ?
3. Did she feel guilty because the baby's dad forgot to give her the answers to the science test.
All kidding aside .... THAT GIRL FUCKED UP!............ yeah I guess prison 'l have to do since she killed a baby ..... btw while somewhat on topic can somebody tell me why girls  up north lead you around the entire time while chicks in the south put out more apparently


----------



## .44 (Sep 30, 2012)

Adrianhamm said:


> The Florida Abortion law concerning minors for those who don't know what it actually say. For the TLDR crowd, it states that a minor can get an abortion without parental consent but the parents will be notified.



I already said this ITT. 

But what are you doing?

Caf? decorum requires you post first, think later, and search on Wikipedia only after you've been called on your bullshit. 

Be more like this Fruits Basket guy.


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## NarutoxKakashi (Sep 30, 2012)

yuLeopard said:


> 1. Who decided to bang a 13 year old?
> 2. Was it her classmate ?
> 3. Did she feel guilty because the baby's dad forgot to give her the answers to the science test.
> All kidding aside .... THAT GIRL FUCKED UP!............ yeah I guess prison 'l have to do since she killed a baby ..... btw while somewhat on topic can somebody tell me why girls  up north lead you around the entire time while chicks in the south put out more apparently



From what friends and family have told me, most men up north are interested in "one night relationships", whereas southern men its "finding a lady who should be having my baby, baby."


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

@.44:

#1. Wikipedia is not a valid source

#2. I look it up on google and apparently, Florida is one of those rare Southern states where you do not need parental consent (just notification, which is still not too good).

I lived in Alabama for a time (and my cousins live in North Carolina and Texas told me that that was the case of abortions) and the girls there need at least one parent to give consent for an abortion and most people have told me that that was pretty much the standard throughout the South.

So I admit, it was my mistake.



Flow said:


> Disregarding everything else that you said, who here has said that you stated that she shouldn't be punished?



You seem to be hinting at it just because I suggested to look at the whole picture and you were saying that I was excusing the girl (excuse can also mean letting the girl go unpunished).

That is where I thought you were implying that I was saying she should go unpunished, which I never said but to look at the whole picture.


----------



## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> You seem to be hinting at it just because I suggested to look at the whole picture and you were saying that I was excusing the girl (excuse can also mean letting the girl go unpunished).
> 
> That is where I thought you were implying that I was saying she should go unpunished, which I never said but to look at the whole picture.



Then say "Flow, I don't understand why you think yaddayadda"

I never said that you believe she shouldn't get prison time. That's the conclusion you came to for whatever reason. I did however imply that your defense for her was pitiful.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

Whoa whoa sir....you said excuse the girl (which can mean, not punishing or letting her go).

You sir are the one who needs to clarify what you mean.


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## Rica_Patin (Sep 30, 2012)

Fucking disgusting, and the fact that she's 14 means this bitch won't be serving life in prison. Little sociopathic bitch deserves so much more than she's going to get with this much to sympathetic legal system.


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## EJ (Sep 30, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Whoa whoa sir....you said excuse the girl (which can mean, not punishing or letting her go).
> 
> You sir are the one who needs to clarify what you mean.



In a way, you were trying to justify what she did, and excuse her behavior. I never once stated what you were saying.

In fact, I'm pretty sure I even TOLD you this before.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 30, 2012)

@Flow:

Thank you once AGAIN proving that you must still be in a school who does not have FUCKING, BASIC READING comprehension !


Never was I justifying what she has done.  Understanding how it happened based on where she lives and trying to find solutions so that it will not happen again are not the same as agreeing with what she has done!

At least, I am adult enough to admit when I made a mistake regarding the state law...you on the other hand....just repeat based on your initial assumptions on what I was implying without even acknowledging your mistake.


----------



## EJ (Oct 1, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> @Flow:
> 
> Thank you once AGAIN proving that you must still be in a school who does not have FUCKING, BASIC READING comprehension !



going for the insults now, are you? You've put words in my mouth, and have even continued to say "I don't see how people think I yaddayadda" when I told you before that I never said that she should be excused. 

So please, you're the last person that should be getting on someone for it not only being late at night and using words in the wrong manner, but attacking someone for their reading comprehension in this thread, with all the assfuck mistakes you've been making. 



> Never was I justifying what she has done.  Understanding how it happened based on where she lives and trying to find solutions so that it will not happen again are not the same as agreeing with what she has done!





Fruits Basket Fan said:


> What she has done was horrible but one has to look at the whole picture....



This is inane, and idiotic. 

How about we look at the case for every single murder that has happened? Let's look at "Why the person did it". 

Let's stop holding people accountable for their own actions. There are people that have it worse than her, and STILL keep the baby, and don't want to put it up for adoption. 

We don't have to look at this "any other way". It's common sense that you shouldn't strangle a new born baby, and if you feel a damn single OUNCE of "Well, her state is like-" please, for the love of God, don't ever speak for anyone. 

HOLD people accountable for what they do. And the fact that you think she should be sent to juvenile hall and "get psychiatric help" just shows that you know absolutely nothing of criminal mind/behavior, and even YOU don't know what type of steps should be taken to prevent this from happening.

Case and point? Don't fucking strangle your own new born child. Maybe they should implement this in schools, since you find it so difficult to believe that it's common sense. 


> She is 14 years old and lives in a state where she cannot get an abortion without parental consent.  That state is also part of the Bible Belt which demonizes teenagers who have sex and do not approve of teaching sex education at public schools and birth control is not available within easy reach.



SHE CAN get an abortion without parental consent, but her parents WILL be notified about it when it is done. Someone JUST posted an article about it.


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## EJ (Oct 1, 2012)

Adrianhamm said:


> The Florida Abortion law concerning minors for those who don't know what it actually say. For the TLDR crowd, it states that a minor can get an abortion without parental consent but the parents will be notified.



Right here guy. Thank this user.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Oct 1, 2012)

Yup, you definitely must still be in school....

The way you reacted and how you fail to review your mistake is just.......very childish.

Edit: And for your information, I already address my mistake with .44 two posts ago.

Do you have a memory problem, as well?


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## Soul (Oct 1, 2012)

You are the one that wants to give a borderline free pass to a murderer.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Oct 1, 2012)

And here come poster # 2 who twists what you have just said for the past 5-10 posts !


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## EJ (Oct 1, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Yup, you definitely must still be in school....



I'm sure even a middle school kid could comprehend and understand that there shouldn't be a "well, let's look at the demographics. Maybe there is a reason why she did it? Things aren't so black and white"

-fucking _duh_

Things are really never white and black when a crime is committed. Admit it, the only reason why you even give this girl more than what she deserves is because in your eyes, she's "just a little girl who couldn't comprehend what she was doing".

A 5 year old knows not to beat up his younger baby siblings. a 13 year old begins to to understand they shouldn't get into fist fights with their older/younger siblings all the time. And here you are trying to justify why she killed her own baby.

No, not to an extreme, since you obviously have horrible comprehension regarding this matter. I



> The way you reacted and how you fail to review your mistake is just.......very childish.
> 
> Edit: And for your information, I already address my mistake with .44 two posts ago.
> 
> Do you have a memory problem, as well?



How I reacted was JUSTIFIED. You offered to make her a juvenile, and give her psychiatric help and that was it. 

I'm not reading all of your post. A lot of it is BS. Unless it's directed towards me, I won't respond to it. Well, if it's flawed in some horrible way. Not sure if that's even more possible.


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## Petes12 (Oct 1, 2012)

we try kids as kids for a reason, and should always seek to give psychiatric help to people who do crazy shit. 

it's something the US is pretty bad at compared to other countries.


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## hammer (Oct 1, 2012)

trying a child as a child? YOU MUST BE INSANE.


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## NarutoxKakashi (Oct 1, 2012)

It's the same reason age of consent exists. Children aren't mature enough to make a decision like having sex when they're 13.


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## Superstars (Oct 1, 2012)

Hey, this is no different from people who support abortions. This female had a right to do this according to the majority out there. She deserves death.


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## Magic (Oct 1, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> oh look its florida in the news again i wonder if it'll be something good?



Hahaha so this,

Florida citizens always doing some stupid stuff from time to time.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Oct 2, 2012)

Flow said:


> I'm sure even a middle school kid could comprehend and understand that there shouldn't be a "well, let's look at the demographics. Maybe there is a reason why she did it? Things aren't so black and white"
> 
> -fucking _duh_
> 
> ...



There you go again twisting what I have just said !!!

You are embarassing yourself with your butthurt.

Keep embarassing yourself more and more, please !


----------



## Grep (Oct 2, 2012)

The people calling Florida 'the south' need to stop. If we are talking (culturally) about the south Florida is certainly not it. 

The panhandle MAYBE. But that is pushing it. Florida is its own sort of stupid, just like Texas.


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## impersonal (Oct 2, 2012)

It's not as bad as the murder of a small child or a teen. It's a crime alright, but considering (a) that the mother is 14 and (b) that her victim had barely reached the most basic levels of humanity, she should get major attenuating circumstances. Sure, she needs to be charged and condemned. But it makes no sense to let her rot in jail for years over that.


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## Naruto (Oct 2, 2012)

>Never visits section
>Checks it once
>This news article
>Depression

Never again.


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## Mogami Kyoko (Oct 2, 2012)

Mfw people blame it on religion.

I come from a religious family. By the age of 10-11 I knew right from wrong. My parents also taught me about sex and pregnancy at 10-11. 
Religion has nothing to do with this as much as stupid parenting.

14 years old is most certainly an age where one knows right from wrong. She shouldn't have had sex at that age. I don't know about anyone else, but I would be pretty baffled if a 14 year old didn't know that sex = babies. So most likely, she knew what the consequences were. She just chose to ignore them. 

I know there is a big chance that she was hormonally and emotionally eff'd up at the time of giving birth. That's not surprising. What CANNOT be excused is the 9 month waiting period she had.
She had two choices. 
1. Tell her parents or a relative or even a teacher; an adult she trusted about it. Face trivial punishment (oh noez, dun taek mah ipod moooommm bawwwwww), learn a lesson and take proper steps on the matter. (Whether it was have the baby or abort it.)

2. Keep it a secret from everyone and not have a plan at all or have a messed up plan.

Since she obviously went with option #2, this says that she never made a plan or she did have a plan (which was murdering the child). 
If she didn't have a plan and the whole event was a panic reaction, then it's second degree murder.
If she planned on killing the baby the whole time, then it's first degree murder.

There are people who don't think she should be tried as an adult. I beg to differ. Having sex is a very adult act. A child would not be having sex. Obviously, she believed that she was "adult" enough to have sex. Killing someone is a very adult crime. The punishment should fit the crime. 

At the very least...the lightest punishment she deserves is jail time and therapy. That is the lightest punishment I believe she should have. 

Just having therapy is not a consequence. She needs to learn that such actions will not go unpunished and that she can't get away with such things in life. 

And as other people have said, if a teenage boy gets life for accidentally killing his cousin, then she deserves much worse. Lest the law appear backwards and twisted.


----------



## impersonal (Oct 2, 2012)

Mogami Kyoko said:


> I come from a religious family.
> (...)
> There are people who don't think she should be tried as an adult. I beg to differ. Having sex is a very adult act. A child would not be having sex. Obviously, she believed that she was "adult" enough to have sex. Killing someone is a very adult crime. The punishment should fit the crime.


Dear God, religion makes people do and say the craziest things.

When she had sex, she was a teenage girl. When she did not report the pregnancy, she was obviously a teenage girl with typical teenage deficiencies in foresight and responsibility. When she killed the newborn baby, she was a _criminal_ teenage girl, but still a teenage girl.

It makes sense to sentence her as a juvenile, because everything about her behavior is juvenile. And don't tell me that young people normally don't kill people. Of course they normally don't. But they sometimes do, and that's why the possibility exist to sentence people as juveniles in the first place.

If everytime a juvenile commits a crime you barge in saying "committing crimes is an adult thing! Sentence him/her as an adult!", then let's just sentence 8 years old kid as adults all the time and whatever the crime. But do you really think it's better to disregard the obvious differences between adults and youngsters?


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## zan (Oct 2, 2012)

am pretty sure fla you can get an abortion...i live in fl....


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## Mogami Kyoko (Oct 2, 2012)

impersonal said:


> Dear God, religion makes people do and say the craziest things.
> 
> When she had sex, she was a teenage girl. When she did not report the pregnancy, she was obviously a teenage girl with typical teenage deficiencies in foresight and responsibility. When she killed the newborn baby, she was a _criminal_ teenage girl, but still a teenage girl.
> 
> ...




 Greeaaatt debate tactic ya got thar. "They came from a religious family/they're religious?! LET'S TAKE IT AND BEAT THEM WITH IT!11!!" 

So your logic is, since I came from a religious family, if I say something that you disagree with, I'm automatically stupid and/or crazy?
Yeah. Lovely logic. Let's NOT be civil and treat one another like fellow human beings, eh?

You seem to misunderstand my words.
I did not say committing crimes is an adult thing. I said _*committing murder* was an *adult crime.*_


It does not matter how old you are. Murder gets the same punishment. Especially if you're old enough to know right from wrong. 
If you simply google it, you see that tons and tons of teenagers who have murdered another tend to get life or x-amount of years in jail. As you can tell, teenager murderers aren't exactly given a "juvenile sentence" and for good reason too.
In fact, now-a-days, the only difference between an adult murderer and a juvenile murderer is that in some states, a juvenile murderer can't get life without the possibility of parole. 

Young age does not grant immunity.

The punishment for murder varies. There are different sentences for murder because there are different kinds of murder. (First degree, second degree, ect.)
The kinds of murders and the punishments that go with them out there, are not limited to people ages 18+.

Now then. If you re-read my post, did you see me cry out about giving her the death sentence or life sentence? No. 
I said that I believed that the lightest punishment she should get is some time in jail and therapy. I do not believe it's okay to go any less.
I don't care what the judge and jury decide to give her as long as it's at least her getting a punishment and some help on the side.


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 2, 2012)

Shinigami Perv said:


> A 14-year-old deserves the death penalty?  She won't get the DP, but it's frightening that people actually consider sentencing a 14-year-old girl to death.
> 
> Probably she was emotionally overcome, being 14 and delivering a baby in a bathroom in scissors. Considering her mother sounds like the looney religious type, is it really any surprise this happened?



'emotionally acted out..not her fault..needs thrapy not jail blah blah blah.' 
Sounds like the typical far left warped bullshit that favors the perp over the real victim.And the fact that you project her parents that didn't want her to murder her child as the 'loonies' here,further displays the depravity of your thought patterns.


Chelydra said:


> Its certainly more prevelant in the South where religious dogma holds sway over quite a few peoples lives, and its a sad thing honestly, that this girl was driven to do this out of fear of her parents.



Sad for her that her parents would have refused to let her murder her baby through an abortion;instead of taking responsibility for her actions? 

Oooh the tragedy...poor girl

/sarcasm



Yachiru said:


> But charging her with first-degree murder? Do these shitheads know she would end up on death row if she gets convicted? Geez -.-



Yes..life in prison or death row is typically the penalty for premeditated murder.
While a trial is needed,sounds to me she might have been planning to murder the infant all along to keep her parents from finding out.Thats cold blooded murder.



Spartan1337 said:


> It's probably because she doesn't even think about the potential consequences. She's young and not wise. She probably genuinely fooled herself into thinking that getting pregnant was the last thing that'd happen to her.
> 
> Really, I believe she may have had a sense of invincibility and self-assuredness  until she got pregnant.



Doesn't matter,no excuse.
She would be thrown into jail for murdering one of her classmates would she?
That baby was no less human just because it was a newborn.She has done a serious crime and must be punished for it like anyone else.



Awesome said:


> > South
> 
> I have no doubt her parents were completely against abortion. She would have had to have the baby, therefore it would have messed up the dynamics of her family like she said. She didn't want that, so she had an "abortion" the only way she knew how.
> 
> This is the reason why abortions were legalized in the first place - so it could be safer and shit like this doesn't happen.



Trying to justify murder eh?
Thats just sick bro.You don't have a right to kill a child whether you choose to call it an infant,fetus,embryo,etc.You don't just magically become a human at a certain development stage.From conception to physical death you are a growing/changing human being.



Coteaz said:


> Why the fuck didn't she have an abortion?
> 
> Oh right, the South. This is completely fine with "pro-life" (I use the term loosely) types, because none of them give two shits about what happens to the baby after it pops out.



Southern Conservatives in general aren't against helping those that are truly in need.

What they really oppose are pregnant welfare queens and other financial aide fakers that refuse to help themselves,because they enjoy living off the government tit so much.

Theres a difference between a teen mom that takes responsibility for her actions and gets some financial aide;from the welfare queens that actively TRY to get more dependents so as to qualify for more taxpayer money.Your lame stereotypes of southern conservatives get old


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## NarutoxKakashi (Oct 2, 2012)

I still don't see where it says in the article that the parents were religious. Can someone find a link or quote the part in the news article where it says that? 



Mogami Kyoko said:


> Mfw people blame it on religion.
> 
> I come from a religious family. By the age of 10-11 I knew right from wrong. My parents also taught me about sex and pregnancy at 10-11.
> Religion has nothing to do with this as much as stupid parenting.
> ...



I agree with ~97% of what you just said. I would just say the reason our legal system treats children differently than adults is children aren't mature enough mentally to understand the consequences of their choices. I wouldn't mind treating her differently if she were a couple years older (adulthood should start at 16, IMO).


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## siyrean (Oct 2, 2012)

she hid the body in her laundry in her room.

for three days!


IN HER ROOM

What fucking part of that leads you to believe she's in any way in the right state of mind and that that was her grand premeditated murder plan?

Maybe she planned to give the child up once it was born but she flipped out after giving birth in her freaking washroom with a pair of scissors. do you guys have any fucking idea how hormonally whacked a woman is after birth? They even have a condition for woman who kill their newborns because it happens so often. 

yes she needs to be punished, but certainly not tried as an adult for murder. First of all, why do you even have the distinction between child and adult if you're just going to throw phycology out the window as soon as the crime becomes serious? 14 year olds do not have the same capacity for reasoning as an adult. They don't. Does that equate to a free pass? no, but it needs to be taken into consideration. 

At 14, chances are she falls under being statutorily raped too.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 2, 2012)

siyrean said:


> she hid the body in her laundry in her room.
> 
> for three days!
> 
> ...



No your wrong a 14 is perfectly rational and capable of making sound choices, and also pregnancy for women is a breeze!  Things like  don't exist man!

Also LOL @ people comparing an abortion to murder thats epic


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## spankdatbitch (Oct 2, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> No your wrong a 14 is perfectly rational and capable of making sound choices, and also pregnancy for women is a breeze!  Things like  don't exist man!
> 
> *Also LOL @ people comparing an abortion to murder thats epic *



Murder is only okay if guys in white lab coats tell me it is.
And if it's legal that means it can never be wrong or immoral.Thats why the extermination of Jews in Germany was ok..because it was legal.

Do you have any other sociopathic sounding pearls of wisdom for us Chelydra-Sama?


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## EJ (Oct 2, 2012)

Did that person just seriously say strangling a new born baby is not murder?


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## Misha-San (Oct 2, 2012)

I think she was in her right mind if she decided to have sex and get pregnant.. :/


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## Chelydra (Oct 2, 2012)

Flow said:


> Did that person just seriously say strangling a new born baby is not murder?





> Sad for her that her parents would have refused to let her murder her baby through an abortion;instead of taking responsibility for her actions?



People in this thread are implying that getting an abortion is the same has her murdering the baby.

Yes she murdered that baby, but she was insane, not of a proper state of mind, is a child and thus should not be tried as an adult she needs therapy and needs to have serious intervention at an institution or somewhere else. She should not be tried as an adult. Nor face Jail time.



spankdatbitch said:


> Murder is only okay if guys in white lab coats tell me it is.
> And if it's legal that means it can never be wrong or immoral.Thats why the extermination of Jews in Germany was ok..because it was legal.
> 
> Do you have any other sociopathic sounding pearls of wisdom for us Chelydra-Sama?



Shut the hell up. Getting an abortion is the same as Nazis murdering Jews? Brilliant! In other words you believe that a clump of cells is the same as a newborn baby or an adult. Fail.


----------



## Dark Knight Spike (Oct 2, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> People in this thread are implying that getting an abortion is the same has her murdering the baby.
> 
> Yes she murdered that baby, but she was insane, not of a proper state of mind, is a child and thus should not be tried as an adult she needs therapy and needs to have serious intervention at an institution or somewhere else. She should not be tried as an adult.



Wait wait wait..........how do you know if she was insane?

What if she did it because the baby brought new responsibilities she didn't want?

What if her intentions were on purpose?

GTFO with she doesn't need to be tried as an adult.

She needs to be prosecuted and sentenced to 30 years in prison.  Murder is murder no matter if it was an insane act or on purpose.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 2, 2012)

Fruit Rollup said:


> Wait wait wait..........how do you know if she was insane?
> 
> What if she did it because the baby brought new responsibilities she didn't want?
> 
> ...



What rational cold calculating murderer hides the body in her own damn room?

And if Muder is murder no matter what then Postpartum Psychosis would not be an acceptable defense in our legal system for mothers that murder their babies, but it is. The legal system is not as black and white as you think it is, or should be.


----------



## Dark Knight Spike (Oct 2, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> What rational cold calculating murderer hides the body in her own damn room?



Sometimes ......and I mean once in a while someone tries to hide a body somewhere you would never think to look.


All I'm saying is the insanity plea or assumption you're saying could be a ploy. That's all bro.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 2, 2012)

Fruit Rollup said:


> Sometimes ......and I mean once in a while someone tries to hide a body somewhere you would never think to look.
> 
> 
> All I'm saying is the insanity plea or assumption you're saying could be a ploy. That's all bro.



It could be, but thats not for us to decide its for licensed doctors to determine. I don't believe this girl has the ability to plan that shit out.

You cannot discount the hell pregnancy can be, both physically and hormonally on people though. Not to mention the surrounding circumstances that she may have faced that would easily cause her to lose it.


----------



## bladexj (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> The legal system is not as black and white as you think it is, or should be.



The legal system is not supposed to be black and white. There are too many factors in law for it to be black and white. You also have no grasp or understanding of psychology or common sense if you think a 14yo girl = an adult mentally.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

bladexj said:


> The legal system is not supposed to be black and white. There are too many factors in law for it to be black and white. You also have no grasp or understanding of psychology or common sense if you think a 14yo girl = an adult mentally.



I agree completely. I was replying to someone else, on the "murder is murder" part.


----------



## Dark Knight Spike (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> It could be, but thats not for us to decide its for licensed doctors to determine. I don't believe this girl has the ability to plan that shit out.
> 
> You cannot discount the hell pregnancy can be, both physically and hormonally on people though. Not to mention the surrounding circumstances that she may have faced that would easily cause her to lose it.



Yeah I know but I'm just saying, that you can't rule out the possibility that she might try to use the insanity plea to get off scotch free.

Still your argument is very solid.


----------



## bladexj (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> I agree completely.



Can't tell if trolling. Also I may have misinterpreted some of your posts. Sometimes people go crazy but eye for an eye isn't also the right solution. Sorry, I sound like a hippie.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

eh fuck

After reading some of the responses in this thread I just have mixed feelings about all of this. Some sort of justice needs to be carried out.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

bladexj said:


> Can't tell if trolling. Also I may have misinterpreted some of your posts. Sometimes people go crazy but eye for an eye isn't also the right solution. Sorry, I sound like a hippie.



I think your misinterpreting what I said and to be fair I suck at wording things.

And I do agree with your previous post.


----------



## bladexj (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> I agree completely. I was replying to someone else, on the "murder is murder" part.



I reread you posts, you said law shouldn't be black and white. Sorry, I was derpy.


----------



## igeku somrazunta (Oct 3, 2012)

personally i'm pro life and i live in the south. kill me. i'm a dogmatic theocrist who has no sense of reason purely because i'm southern, care about animals, the environment, and find vegetables to be important to my diet and i still find logical reasons to hunt, and i guess being southern makes me a fascist white power freak? well i point out to you. for most of you arguing sympathy. your being fallacious. specifically post hoc ergo propter hoc and the bulverism (a personal favorite). allow me to explain to you how. they are raised in the south therefore they are fucked up. (i might as well add undistributed middle) that is the bulverism, (you only are like that/ say that because of who you are/where your from/ or how your raised. fallacies are fun . post hoc ergo propter hoc being, shes fucked up, shes from the south, therefore the south is fucked up. amiright?

onto the legal sense of this. i don't think the death penalty or even a life sentence are the right answer here. yes she killed a baby, that's heinous. personally i see no difference between that and killing some random guy on the street. yes there's an emotional relationship. but both have an equal right to live. therefore it should be the same if you violate eithers' right to life. and if you say one has more of a right to life than the other then we get to racism and sexism VERY VERY QUICKLY. those are bad. extremely bad. they led to the death of millions in the past couple hundred years alone. so yah. i hope its not something that gets challenged. personally i don't agree with underage or OOWL sex, why? because in that place i believe The Bible (Oh dear igeku you theocratic redneck CUNT! ) is correct when it says that it is a sacred union where man and woman become one flesh, i believe in sacred things and if i were to choose the bible would probably be my choice, as it has made the most sound logical argument in my opinion. when it makes claims it always gives a warrant. it never says BECAUSE GOD SAYS SO, unless its speaking specifically to someone how will do it because God said so. and even then there are other situations and it gives a warrant. i can tell you without a doubt in my heart the book contains not a single fallacy, as to its soundness is up to you. but in my own studies i know the fallacies and ive read the book a couple times and i haven't seen fallacies. i read your posts and ive noted three already. 

onto abortion. i dont agree with it. i think its demeaning that any woman should have to PROVE their worth to a man by not caring about the future, my own personal philosophy is that men are guardians of the present, women guardians of the future. now tell em how being the keeper to the future of our horridly evil and fucked up race is any worse than having to deal with the present version of our shitty race.

final notations, i would confer 20 years (for one murder) and counseling (to deal with any psyche issues), maybe temporary institution time (if counseling or the court shows shes crazy)
if you wanna neg rep me for being a sexist i understand. i may have said something radical that you don't like. maybe everything i said is radical and im just a babbling moron.
just my two cents worth. maybe one cent.

(fuck you igeku go die in a hole   )


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 3, 2012)

Florida needs it's own subsection.


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Shut the hell up. Getting an abortion is the same as Nazis murdering Jews? Brilliant! In other words you believe that a clump of cells is the same as a newborn baby or an adult. Fail.



You shut the hell up.
That way I don't have to listen to your blatant stupidity and obvious brainwashing.Damn right..it's the same thing bro.In Nazi Germany it was alright to kill Jews because it was legal at the time.And there are seriously people like you dumb enough to think it's perfectly ok to kill babies why again?Oh thats right..it's legal therefore it must be alright.Your ignorance sickens me...




Chelydra said:


> What rational cold calculating murderer hides the body in her own damn room?
> 
> And if Muder is murder no matter what then Postpartum Psychosis would not be an acceptable defense in our legal system for mothers that murder their babies, but it is. The legal system is not as black and white as you think it is, or should be.



1: Ever heard of Jeffrey Dahmer?How about John Wayne Gacy?
    The fail is strong with this one.

2: 'it's legal therefore it's ok blah blah blah'

  Yeah keep deluding yourself that the suits and white lab coat fella's know whats best every time.I'm sure if you lived during ww2 in Germany you would be wondering why the Nuremburg people hate you for killing Jews,since der fuhrer said it was legal.After all Jews aren't even human just animals..amirite...amirite?

Ready to strap on your swastika arm band,seig heil the holy white coats,and tell me your 'final solution' plan for murdering fetuses because they are only unwanted 'parasites'


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 3, 2012)

What the fuck? When did prolifers show up in the Cafe? This is new. At least I'm glad not to have to shift through more of the bullshit all or nothing liberal rhetoric that goes around in here normally.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

spankdatbitch said:


> You shut the hell up.
> That way I don't have to listen to your blatant stupidity and obvious brainwashing.Damn right..it's the same thing bro.In Nazi Germany it was alright to kill Jews because it was legal at the time.And there are seriously people like you dumb enough to think it's perfectly ok to kill babies why again?Oh thats right..it's legal therefore it must be alright.Your ignorance sickens me...
> 
> 
> ...



[YOUTUBE]FopyRHHlt3M[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> [YOUTUBE]FopyRHHlt3M[/YOUTUBE]



Cool story Adolph
Amazing how a lack of an actual argument can always conveniently be covered up with irrelevant usage of embedded video's and animated gifs ain't it libtard?


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

OK prove to me how a clump of cells equals an adult human being or even a newborn. I will wait.

Now stand at attention sieg fucking Heil!


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> OK prove to me how a clump of cells equals an adult human being or even a newborn. I will wait.



So if the holy white coats say it is so it must be true.
do you have a single reason why a human isn't a human from conception until death except some guy in a laboratory told you so?I thought not.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

spankdatbitch said:


> So if the holy white coats say it is so it must be true.
> do you have a single reason why a human isn't a human from conception until death except some guy in a laboratory told you so?I thought not.



I will make this easy for you, I will even use pictures 
This:


This:


And this:


DO NOT EQUAL

This:


Or this:


Now tell me how the first set of images is the same as a fully grown human or even a newborn baby.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 3, 2012)

Fun fact about abortion: it wasn't very popular before it became legal. Like it or not, legality changes how people see something. Whether that thing is right or wrong.


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> I will make this easy for you, I will even use pictures
> This:
> 
> 
> ...



So basically thats an affirmative on you being the white coats ho then?

Oh Hitler would have LOVED you as one of his officers
As long as der fuhrers white coat shills show you some data with pretty charts explaining why Jews are parasites (not human)you would probably gladly take part in the genocide.Ever heard of propaganda junior?Know how it works?Until your next fail take care...



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Fun fact about abortion: it wasn't very popular before it became legal. Like it or not, legality changes how people see something. Whether that thing is right or wrong.



Ssssshhh don't be making sense on this thread,the left wing circle jerkers won't appreciate it.I'm sure to them propaganda and brainwashing doesn't exist unless it's coming from Fox News,Glenn Beck,or some other right wing source.As long as the law and the holy white coats say it enough it must 100% be true


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

spankdatbitch said:


> So basically thats an affirmative on you being the white coats ho then?
> 
> Oh Hitler would have LOVED you as one of his officers
> As long as der fuhrers white coat shills show you some data with pretty charts explaining why Jews are parasites (not human)you would probably gladly take part in the genocide.Ever heard of propaganda junior?Know how it works?Until your next fail take care...



Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Im going to sig your replies.


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Im going to sig this.



Be my guest.
In the meantime anytime you want to get your snobby liberal nose out of the air and actually debate the matter I won't be far away


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

There is nothing to debate you have brought nothing to the table to disprove what is currently considered acceptable and legal.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> There is nothing to debate you have brought nothing to the table to disprove what is currently considered acceptable and legal.


There's a good reason why there's a fallacy called "Appeal to Authority".


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> There is nothing to debate you have brought nothing to the table to disprove what is currently considered acceptable and legal.





Chelydra said:


> Im going to sig this.



*'A lie told often enough becomes the truth.' Lenin*

Funny that a liberal hero outright described the basic idea of propaganda and brainwashing,yet libtards still refuse to believe they are victims of it.

1960's:  'Embryo's are parasites..not yet human'

The typical answer: 'BULLSHIT!!!'

( 50 yrs of the same lie being told)

2012: 'Embryo's are parasites...not yet human'

The typical answer: 'well..DUH!!!'

you have been brainwashed over time junior.I don't give a damn what is legal or generally accepted as true by the brainwashed masses.It is a lie and will always be so.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> There's a good reason why there's a fallacy called "Appeal to Authority".



So you too think that a fetus is the same as an adult human being? That a clump of cells that cannot feel, think, reason or even survive outside the mother is the same as a newborn?


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> So you too think that a fetus is the same as an adult human being? That a clump of cells that cannot feel, think, reason or even survive outside the mother is the same as a newborn?



And this is 'true' simply because it has been brainwashed into your head.
A developing human is still a human.You don't magically go from being a parasite to a human at a certain amount of weeks in the womb.You don't get to decide who deserves to live or die Adolph


----------



## Sans (Oct 3, 2012)

Godwin's Law said:
			
		

> Godwin's law is an argument made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." In other words, Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler and the Nazis.



Seems true.


----------



## spankdatbitch (Oct 3, 2012)

Komnenos said:


> Seems true.



Because he sounds like one.
embryo's are 'parasites' because authority figures tell him so.Therefore they can be killed without guilt because they are not human.Also it is for the better good because if allowed to live they would consume much needed resources and lead to over population.Welcome to the 4th Reich


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

Now I assume this "little murderess" deserves the death penalty right? Since she was completely and mentally sound right? And calm thoughout her plan and executed it flawlessly.

And that no complications either physically, hormonally, mentally, or outside influnces caused her to simply kill her healthy newborn baby for the lulz. 

Now it _could_ be possible but I doubt it.


----------



## Ausorrin (Oct 3, 2012)

This is so horrible and tragic  Try her as an adult and giver her the death penalty. Did this girl think killing a child wouldn't have worse repercussions than raising the child.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Oct 3, 2012)

This is obviously bad, but I'm having trouble blaming her as harshly as the others here.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Now I assume this "little murderess" deserves the death penalty right? Since she was completely and mentally sound right? And calm thoughout her plan and executed it flawlessly.
> 
> And that no complications either physically, hormonally, mentally, or outside influnces caused her to simply kill her healthy newborn baby for the lulz.
> 
> Now it _could_ be possible but I doubt it.




Not mentally sound? Do you know how many murders were committed by someone who wasn't mentally sound? If that's the case a lot of people should be let out of jail since they weren't in their right mind.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

horse60000 said:


> I suck at trolling



Yeah, we get it.


----------



## igeku somrazunta (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Now I assume this "little murderess" deserves the death penalty right? Since she was completely and mentally sound right? And calm thoughout her plan and executed it flawlessly.
> 
> And that no complications either physically, hormonally, mentally, or outside influnces caused her to simply kill her healthy newborn baby for the lulz.
> 
> Now it _could_ be possible but I doubt it.



lol since when did we say that?

in fact i never even stated that she does deserve it. i said she doesnt. (why?) because one murder isnt worth the death penalty, ]

SO LETS GIVE HER ANOTHER BABY, THEN WE CAN GIVE HER THE DP 

i agree with yiu spankda. just i really dislike the use of Adolf hitler. 
i would hope we can remain gentleman whether our position is left,right,up,down,forwards or even backwards.since the only insults ive seen made are towards the south in general

and chel. your pictures are truly irrelevant. because all four of those ARE human beings and therefore should =.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> Not mentally sound? Do you know how many murders were committed by someone who wasn't mentally sound? If that's the case a lot of people should be let out of jail since they weren't in their right mind.



the difference is WHY they are not mentally sound. if they are a sociopath then there is no point in trying to reform them, but a young child is a different story.


----------



## Mochi (Oct 3, 2012)

You can't tell me that a mom doesn't know if her child isn't pregnant or not


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Mochi said:


> You can't tell me that a mom doesn't know if her child isn't pregnant or not



The parents deserve more blame then the girl, if you don't know your daughter is nine months pregnant even with baggy clothes you are a fool.  They new and did nothing, they allowed their child to become desperate.


----------



## Magic (Oct 3, 2012)

Eh, the parents did not kill the baby.
Parent's can only do so much to raise a child in the proper way of things. Blaming the parents here is a bit much, as ultimately the daughter choose to hide this secret and dispose of her secret in a crude fashion. I'm not even an expert and this girl was clearly under a lot of anxiety and not in her right mind.

She needs treatment not incarceration.


----------



## Vergil (Oct 3, 2012)

This whole news story is sad. Girl made a mistake at the age of 13/14 - usually when people make their biggest mistakes. It's a shame she didn't feel that she could tell anyone; obviously there was no one she could trust enough, especially no adults. 

Her parents should have known and should have done something other than...nothing. I really hope she gets a very light sentence and a shit ton of therapy. She needs help, not being told she did bad for years on end. I'm sure she was incredibly stressed and racked full of guilt for the entire pregnancy until she just felt backed into a corner and this was the only thing she thought she could do. 

Such a shame - had she been given the right advice none of this need have happened. She could give the child up to adoption, she could have terminated the pregnancy when she found out, she/he could have used safe sex.

A real damned tragedy


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

RemChu said:


> Eh, the parents did not kill the baby.
> Parent's can only do so much to raise a child in the proper way of things. Blaming the parents here is a bit much, as ultimately the daughter choose to hide this secret and dispose of her secret in a crude fashion. I'm not even an expert and this girl was clearly under a lot of anxiety and not in her right mind.
> 
> She needs treatment not incarceration.



the parents can be charged with manslaughter. you can not hide being pregnant I don't care how fucking baggy her clothes are, you just can't hide that for full term.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> The parents deserve more blame then the girl, if you don't know your daughter is nine months pregnant even with baggy clothes you are a fool.  They new and did nothing, they allowed their child to become desperate.



No, the parents don't deserve more blame. Maybe to an extent, but the child STRANGLED her own new born baby.

I really don't understand why people want to break this person's fall so damn much.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> No, the parents don't deserve more blame. Maybe to an extent, but the child STRANGLED her own new born baby.
> 
> I really don't understand why people want to break this person's fall so damn much.



yes they do, they can easily be charged with TWO counts of child negligence at the very least.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 3, 2012)

Abortion would have been the better option here, clearly, though I don't think I have anything to say on that that hasn't been said a thousand times.

I don't think her parents would have given a shit. They didn't notice that their daughter was pregnant for nine whole months, and didn't notice that she spent hours in the bathroom before taking a shower. Maybe I just had a nosy mother but if my sister, at 14, locked herself in the bathroom for more than 45 minutes, my mother would be yelling through the door to see if she died on the toilet.



> Goodson gave birth to the 9.5 pound, 20.4-inch baby on Sept. 19 and used scissors to help ?pry the baby out,? investigators said.
> 
> She stuffed a towel in her own mouth and turned on the faucet so her parents wouldn?t hear any noise, the teen told investigators.





If she hadn't killed the kid afterwards I'd say she was seriously badass.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

sane people would not do that


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> yes they do, they can easily be charged with TWO counts of child negligence at the very least.



You're looking at this from a completely legal issue. Which is alright to some extent, but he parents did NOT strangle the baby and leave it in a shoe box filled with soiled clothing in order for the body to not be found. No matter how you sliced it, this girl garners most of the blame.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> You're looking at this from a completely legal issue. Which is alright to some extent, but he parents did NOT strangle the baby and leave it in a shoe box filled with soiled clothing in order for the body to not be found. No matter how you sliced it, this girl garners most of the blame.



if the mother and father did not have a stick up their ass the baby would be alive.  The parents ignored the signs she had a child because they didn't want to deal with it, if they actually said "ok look we know and we want to help." The baby would be alive.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

"if the man hadn't made him angry, he wouldn't of died", "if the woman had went to the store earlier, she would not had died in the shoot out". In the end, the daughter KILLED her own child. 4 years later, she would been locked behind bars. She knew perfectly well what she was doing as tried to hide he body.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

I can understand "the parents deserve some blame" depending on how obvious it was she was pregnant. There are some people that areas large it barely shows. But to say "they deserve most of the blame" is so damn backwards.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

It is not "damn backwords" they  raised the 14 year old girl.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> the difference is WHY they are not mentally sound. if they are a sociopath then there is no point in trying to reform them, but a young child is a different story.



So since she's young she can be reformed? I don't think that's how it works, and that is biased. 

It makes my head hurt thinking so many of you write this off as a fucking mistake. A mistake is spilling a drink on the carpet, or forgetting to take out the trash. She fucking strangled a newborn, and tried to dispose of the evidence, she knew what she was doing, but will play on the pity of people like you Hammer to get off easy.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes, it is damn backwards. You want to place more blame on the people who didn't kill the child.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> So since she's young she can be reformed? I don't think that's how it works, and that is biased.
> 
> It makes my head hurt thinking so many of you write this off as a fucking mistake. A mistake is spilling a drink on the carpet, or forgetting to take out the trash. She fucking strangled a newborn, and tried to dispose of the evidence, she knew what she was doing, but will play on the pity of people like you Hammer to get off easy.


you are not seeing what I am saying, as I said before there are five different counts of killing someone this is not first degree, it can MAYBE be second degree if you try, everything under that is manslaughter even for an adult this situation is manslaughter.  


Flow said:


> Yes, it is damn backwards. You want to place more blame on the people who didn't kill the child.



It is not damn backwards they made her feel like she had to kill the baby


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

When I get on my comp, I will assume control.


----------



## NarutoxKakashi (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> I can understand "the parents deserve some blame" depending on how obvious it was she was pregnant. There are some people that areas large it barely shows. But to say "they deserve most of the blame" is so damn backwards.



I'm sorry, but if a girl is having sex at 13, pregnant for 9 months without anyone noticing, choking their infant to death in the bathtub, and not showing remorse for what they did, there is a MASSIVE break down in parenting. Where were the parents at during any of this? If my child engaged in any of this, there would be SEVERE punishments. This story REEKS of neglect and a complete failure to discipline their daughter for bad behavior.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

How can anyone blame the parents?  She was the one opening her legs. I've seen people raised with positive influences in their lives and they still decide to take a turn for the worse, it was he decision to have sex, not her parents'.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

In the end of the day, the parents lied about knowing their daughter was pregnant, anyone who believes that is the truth needs to rethink for a minute, they CHOOSE not to talk to her about it, no abortion option, no special vitams for the baby nothing. the girl who was 9 months pregnant had her water fucking drop, then she ran to the bathroom for a few hours and they did not check on her once.  how is their no blame?


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> How can anyone blame the parents?  She was the one opening her legs. I've seen people raised with positive influences in their lives and they still decide to take a turn for the worse, it was he decision to have sex, not her parents'.



a good parent guides a child to good influences and tells them keep your damn legs crossed, and if you cant heres the pill. since the pill helps with your period anyways


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> a good parent guides a child to good influences and tells them keep your damn legs crossed, and if you cant heres the pill. since the pill helps with your period anyways



You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.



and as I said a post above me, it is impossible to not know your child is carrying a child. you live with that girl for 14 years and you cant notice she is getting bigger, even with baggy clothes a mother ANY MOTHER. and when she was in the bathroom for several hours, they did not check on her ONCE. they did not give a flying fuck she had a baby.


----------



## NarutoxKakashi (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.



I think parents can intervene and lead them in a positive direction. This girl's behavior didn't arise innately (unless she truly is a sociopath). It was a result of bad parenting. You're trying to saying nurture can't play a big role in this, and that is not true.


----------



## baconbits (Oct 3, 2012)

Coteaz said:


> Why the fuck didn't she have an abortion?
> 
> Oh right, the South. This is completely fine with "pro-life" (I use the term loosely) types, because none of them give two shits about what happens to the baby after it pops out.



I often wonder how posts like this can be written.  To write this one must ignore all the arguments we pro-life people have stated over the years: we've long argued that abortion is just as bad as killing an innocent child.  Knowing this how can you possibly say we don't care about the baby "after it pops out"?  That attack completely misses the point.

The pro-life movement cares about children intensely; when you argue that we don't care about children you're ignoring our argument: that abortion is killing a child.  While neither mistreatment of a child or the killing of one is good killing a child is worse.



impersonal said:


> Dear God, religion makes people do and say the craziest things.
> 
> When she had sex, she was a teenage girl. When she did not report the pregnancy, she was obviously a teenage girl with typical teenage deficiencies in foresight and responsibility. When she killed the newborn baby, she was a _criminal_ teenage girl, but still a teenage girl.
> 
> ...



There are a few problems with your argument.  First, nothing about the rest of your post suggests that only religious people think the way your opponent did.  I understand you like to take gratuitous swipes at religion but you need a little more substance to make a real attack.

Second, while there is a logical difference between child and adult it is commonplace to charge those who are not legally adults as adults.  This is commonly done whenever the crime is particularly heinous.

Pretending that an argument that calls for charging an individual as an adult fails to distinguish between adult and child is specious.  You haven't considered the severity of the crime.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Even if they didn't watch her closely it's not their fault she decided to have sex, get pregnant, and strangle the baby. Why is everyone so dead set on protecting this girl? If she were 4 years older you all would be crying for her punishment. But double standards always come into play int these cases.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

No I would not be crying for her punishment because this is NOT first nor is it second degree murder.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Murder despite the degree is still murder.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

no it is not, theres a reason it is called MANSLAUGHTER.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Semantics, you know what I meant.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

It is NOT semantics because each holds a different motive or lack of, and years in jail, and jail is not meant to be a punishment we distrotied it that way it is meant for reformation.


erio, if a homeless women gave birth and killed her baby should she be charged with whatever you think is the right choice?


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Whatever I thought was right? I'm the one arguing no matter what the circumstances is she took someone's life. It's quite ridiculous that jail is thought as reform, and not punishment. Not everyone can be reformed, you always here of someone getting out and turning around and doing the same crime again. The only people who should be reformed are the ones with non-violent cases. How do you reform a person who had no problem with taking another person's life?


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

someone killing a single person is not the same as walking down the street with an ak 47


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Oh, here we go.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

what do you mean here we go someone who kills over 30 people because of "you don't believe in what I believe in" can't be reformed. However someone who kills because they think it is the only option they have can be reformed.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Obviously self defense is a different case than killing someone just because you could.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 3, 2012)

punch a man in the face and you can apologize. he will heal. 
steal a man's property and you can apologize. he can be repaid. 
kill a man and you can apologize. he will still be dead.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> Whatever I thought was right? I'm the one arguing no matter what the circumstances is she took someone's life. It's quite ridiculous that jail is thought as reform, and not punishment. Not everyone can be reformed, you always here of someone getting out and turning around and doing the same crime again. The only people who should be reformed are the ones with non-violent cases. How do you reform a person who had no problem with taking another person's life?



I don't think anyone is arguing the fact she took somebodys life.....

I do agree with you however, jail is not the place where people can be reformed. Some people realize the errors of their mistakes but a lot of people don't. At the same time I think the decision of whether or not someone can be reformed should be taken on a case by case basis. There are people who have had a complicated situation that led to murder. I wouldn't consider that person beyond hope just because their crime has something to do with violence.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> Obviously self defense is a different case than killing someone just because you could.



self- defense is more then just you die or die, many people can argue how the parents would react if they "found out"  many parents have in the passed kicked out their under aged child for not crossing their legs, death is not black and white.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Whoever said death was black, and white? Your example is horrible, that clearly isn't self defense their lives weren't at stake in the situation and neither was the girl's. She killed her own child in cold blood. There were alternatives, but she decided to go about it in the worst way, and not only that she tried to hide her deed.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Normality said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing the fact she took somebodys life.....
> 
> I do agree with you however, jail is not the place where people can be reformed. Some people realize the errors of their mistakes but a lot of people don't. At the same time I think the decision of whether or not someone can be reformed should be taken on a case by case basis. There are people who have had a complicated situation that led to murder. I wouldn't consider that person beyond hope just because their crime has something to do with violence.



A girl who got pregnant and didn't want to take responsibility for her actions, isn't the same as someone who had extenuating circumstances which caused them to do what they did.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

How is her life not at stake. and it's nice to say their where alternatives, when A many schools are only teaching substance and not how to use condoms or the fact pills can help during a period. and B she would need to get to the clinic, how dose a 14 year old do that in the first place, as I said before the parents had a play in this.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

There is lack of evidence for your argument. There is nothing saying her parents wouldn't have helped her and now you're just arguing what if. The fact is she killed the baby, she should play for what she's done.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

yes there is evidence, they said they did not know their daughter was not carrying a child, how the fuck do you not notice that?  and she should be reformed not pay.  if Malcolm X can be reformed so can she.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

They said they didn't know. Who's to say if she was honest with them they wouldn't have helped their daughter? There is no proof that they wouldn't have helped her the burden of proof is on your argument.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> A girl who got pregnant and didn't want to take responsibility for her actions, isn't the same as someone who had extenuating circumstances which caused them to do what they did.



You said it yourself, she's a girl. We cannot force the mindset of an adult on child. I would say her circumstances are extenuating because she had two walls for parents that according to the article didn't even know she was pregnant. Many people will tell you that it is hard to deal with stress as many people do not cope well(even adults). Now, imagine this little girl and the amount of stress she was going through and yet having no one who she could talk to. Carrying a life is difficult and obviously she was overcame by stress since she took the rash decision of giving birth to her baby in her BATHROOM.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Honesty really? all you have to do is spend 30 seconds and look at your daughter to see if she is carrying.  if they did not know that is still terrible parenting.


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## eHav (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> There is lack of evidence for your argument. There is nothing saying her parents wouldn't have helped her and now you're just arguing what if. The fact is she killed the baby, she should play for what she's done.



so in your opinion, from what you were saying earlier, a man who shoots the murderer of his son, deserves the same punishment as a man who kills someone to steal him? since you dont seem to believe the first man can ever be rehabilitated right? lock them both for life, or maybe kill them both right?


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## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> Honesty really? all you have to do is spend 30 seconds and look at your daughter to see if she is carrying.  if they did not know that is still terrible parenting.



Yeah, her parents fail at life big time.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

if you cant tell this person has a child just SMH


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Normality said:


> You said it yourself, she's a girl. We cannot force the mindset of an adult on child. I would say her circumstances are extenuating because she had two walls for parents that according to the article didn't even know she was pregnant. Many people will tell you that it is hard to deal with stress as many people do not cope well(even adults). Now, imagine this little girl and the amount of stress she was going through and yet having no one who she could talk to. Carrying a life is difficult and obviously she was overcame by stress since she took the rash decision of giving birth to her baby in her BATHROOM.



When I called her a girl it was because she is female, not because she is a child. Yes I know about stress, but that doesn't make what she did any better. If she wasn't responsible enough to think about the consequences of her actions, and how it could affect her life it is her own fault. This is life no-one's going to hold your hand and walk with you the entire time. she's 14 she knew what she was doing, and she knew it was wrong. She had 9 months to plan what she was going to do with the baby. and could have easily gotten help with her situation. I've known teens who've gotten pregnant in a similar manner, there are a lot of resources that teens can use if they are in this situation. 

It seems she didn't want to get help, she wanted to do away with her problems, and her responsibility with it. 

Hammer do you know the parent's situation? Do you know if they were busy or not, or if they had time to just spend with their daughter? It's not uncommon for parents of teenagers to work often leaving their teens responsible for themselves. Even if they didn't know she was pregnant she could have told them, or got an abortion and her parents would have been notified, even give up the baby for adoption. But what did she chose to do? Strangle it in her parent's bathroom, and proceed tot ry and hide the evidence.  That doesn't sound like someone who simply reacted, it sounds like someone who had some kind of plan.


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## Archangel Michael (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> a good parent guides a child to good influences and tells them keep your damn legs crossed, and if you cant heres the pill. since the pill helps with your period anyways



Just because you guide someone doesn't mean they will listen to all their idea and follow them in the future. Some kids will have sex knowing their not suppose to and even if their parent told them not too. Lots of kids don't listen. 
Pill aren't even 100% effective....


Parent aren't in teenager or even kids life 24/7. They have to make money so they could still live in a house with their child.

Why are people blaming the parents? The daughter had sex and kill the baby. The blame should be on her.


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## Mochi (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> The parents deserve more blame then the girl, if you don't know your daughter is nine months pregnant even with baggy clothes you are a fool.  They new and did nothing, they allowed their child to become desperate.



Exactly. I bet the mom knew her daughter was pregnant but she didn't want to believe it. What the girl did is horrible, but she's 14. A fucking teenager.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

eHav said:


> so in your opinion, from what you were saying earlier, a man who shoots the murderer of his son, deserves the same punishment as a man who kills someone to steal him? since you dont seem to believe the first man can ever be rehabilitated right? lock them both for live, or maybe kill them both right?



No, because if you were paying _any_ attention at all the man and his son's life would be in danger justifying the reaction of killing their assailant protect he and his son's life. Let me ask you did this girl's baby try to kill her, or put her life in danger? No it didn't this was cold blooded.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> \
> 
> Hammer do you know the parent's situation? Do you know if they were busy or not, or if they had time to just spend with their daughter? It's not uncommon for parents of teenagers to work often leaving their teens responsible for themselves. Even if they didn't know she was pregnant she could have told them, or got an abortion and her parents would have been notified, even give up the baby for adoption. But what did she chose to do? Strangle it in her parent's bathroom, and proceed tot ry and hide the evidence.  That doesn't sound like someone who simply reacted, it sounds like someone who had some kind of plan.



if someone is so fucking busy they cant look at their daughter long enough to say WHY ARE YOU FUCKING PREGNANT there is a serious issue, also expecting a fourteen year old girl to be responsible for herself while you are out is plain stupid.  and again she was giving fucking birth it is not a 2 minute thing, she was in their for hours, they should have been concerned but they did not even check on her.  there is a issue in this family.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Mochi said:


> Exactly. I bet the mom knew her daughter was pregnant but she didn't want to believe it. What the girl did is horrible, but she's 14. A fucking teenager.



You're right she's a teen we should forgive her. It's not like teens have mass murdered their school mates, or killed innocent people at a shopping mall or anything.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> if someone is so fucking busy they cant look at their daughter long enough to say WHY ARE YOU FUCKING PREGNANT there is a serious issue, also expecting a fourteen year old girl to be responsible for herself while you are out is plain stupid.  and again she was giving fucking birth it is not a 2 minute thing, she was in their for hours, they should have been concerned but they did not even check on her.  there is a issue in this family.



Even so they didn't make her kill the fucking baby. Quit making excuses for her.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

you cant compare the two, they where supposed to be on meds but had it taken away.

they allowed it to happen, by ignoring her they allowed it to happen.

they are legally responsible.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> you cant compare the two, they where supposed to be on meds but had it taken away.
> 
> they allowed it to happen, by ignoring her they allowed it to happen.
> 
> they are legally responsible.



You couldn't possibly know what mall I w as referring to.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> You couldn't possibly know what mall I w as referring to.



I don't need to either they hear voices or are sociopaths,


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> you cant compare the two, they where supposed to be on meds but had it taken away.
> 
> they allowed it to happen, by ignoring her they allowed it to happen.
> 
> they are legally responsible.



Yes because their daughter couldn't keep her legs closed, and couldn't take responsibility for her actions it's clearly the parents' fault. That's brilliant logic you've got there. you could teach a kid to be responsible , and do your best to give the m all the knowledge they could ever need, but that doesn't mean they will use it. And blaming the parents is a weak argument. 

That's like if I killed you Hammer, and I replied blame my mom she didn't raise me right. You know what's wrong with that scenario? You're suppose to have accountability for yourself, not rely on others to be responsible for you.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> I don't need to either they hear voices or are sociopaths,



Actually the one I was referring to had no signs of being mentally ill.


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## Mochi (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> You're right she's a teen we should forgive her. It's not like teens have mass murdered their school mates, or killed innocent people at a shopping mall or anything.



Erio, I never said we should forgive her. 

I said it's horrible what she has done but that girl is 14 and she was in a very desperate situation. *I blame the parents for not noticing her pregnancy.* I'd be very suspicious if my daugther suddenly only wears baggy clothes and probably locks herself up in the room (that's very common among pregnant teenagers). Of course they have no control about her sex life, but damn, why couldn't she tell her mom that she's pregnant? If you have a healthy relationship with your parent(s) then you can tell her/him what's going on .


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> That's like if I killed you Hammer, and I replied blame my mom she didn't raise me right. You know what's wrong with that scenario? You're suppose to have accountability for yourself, not rely on others to be responsible for you.


unless you are 14 you cant even attempt to use this argument.  I am not inside of you with your parents ignoring you either,


Erio Touwa said:


> Actually the one I was referring to had no signs of being mentally ill.



sociopaths tend to not show signs of being mentally ill


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Mochi said:


> Erio, I never said we should forgive her.
> 
> I said it's horrible what she has done but that girl is 14 and she was in a very desperate situation. *I blame the parents for not noticing her pregnancy.* I'd be very suspicious if my daugther suddenly only wears baggy clothes and probably locks herself up in the room (that's very common among pregnant teenagers). Of course they have no control about her sex life, but damn, why couldn't she tell her mom that she's pregnant? If you have a healthy relationship with your parent(s) then you can tell her/him what's going on .



I was being facetious...



hammer said:


> unless you are 14 you cant even attempt to use this argument.  I am not inside of you with your parents ignoring you either,
> 
> 
> sociopaths tend to not show signs of being mentally ill



It's not like I've been 14 before. _Unless you know the parents, and their situation you can't even attempt to use this argument._


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> It's not like I've been 14 before. _Unless you know the parents, and their situation you can't even attempt to use this argument._



if at the time you murdered me was when you are 14 then yes I don't expect you to due hard time.


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## Mochi (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> I was being facetious...



Then you suck at it!


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> if at the time you murdered me was when you are 14 then yes I don't expect you to due hard time.



That's completely illogical, and seems to be clouded with morality. I can honestly say if I killed someone, and it wasn't in self defense I'd want you to give me time, and put me away. Killing another person is not something that can be rehabilitated.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> In the end of the day, the parents lied about knowing their daughter was pregnant, anyone who believes that is the truth needs to rethink for a minute, they CHOOSE not to talk to her about it, no abortion option, no special vitams for the baby nothing. the girl who was 9 months pregnant had her water fucking drop, then she ran to the bathroom for a few hours and they did not check on her once.  how is their no blame?



Like I said hammer, 

I can understand the parents having some sort of blame put on them. Chances are, they accept that part of the blame is on them. 

But quit JUMPING to conclusions. "There is NO way that a parent wouldn't know their child is pregnant"

You wouldn't believe how many cases there are like this. Sometimes, the person is so big, it's hard to tell if they are pregnant or not. There is one lady who I read in one article that she gave BIRTH in a toilet one time because she didn't realize "she was pregnant". I'm not saying that these are all legit and all the people are telling the truth, but you're simply jumping to conclusions to support your argument.

Even if this WERE the case and the parents knew she was pregnant, the daughter is still at fault. Your comparison is sort of like a 15 year old boy who goes out and kills another kid of a different race/religion because his parents say "God, I hate ____. They all deserve to die". 

But this ISN'T even the case in this article. The girl CHOSE to take the life of her own child that she gave birth to. The parents DIDN'T tell her to strangle her own child. 

Like I said. I can UNDERSTAND seeing the parents having some sort of blame upon this DEPENDING on the circumstances. But this "Well, the PARENTS ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD REALLY BE BLAMED" is completely idiotic and backwards.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> When I called her a girl it was because she is female, not because she is a child. Yes I know about stress, but that doesn't make what she did any better. If she wasn't responsible enough to think about the consequences of her actions, and how it could affect her life it is her own fault. This is life no-one's going to hold your hand and walk with you the entire time. she's 14 she knew what she was doing, and she knew it was wrong. She had 9 months to plan what she was going to do with the baby. and could have easily gotten help with her situation. I've known teens who've gotten pregnant in a similar manner, there are a lot of resources that teens can use if they are in this situation.
> 
> It seems she didn't want to get help, she wanted to do away with her problems, and her responsibility with it.
> 
> Hammer do you know the parent's situation? Do you know if they were busy or not, or if they had time to just spend with their daughter? It's not uncommon for parents of teenagers to work often leaving their teens responsible for themselves. Even if they didn't know she was pregnant she could have told them, or got an abortion and her parents would have been notified, even give up the baby for adoption. But what did she chose to do? Strangle it in her parent's bathroom, and proceed tot ry and hide the evidence.  That doesn't sound like someone who simply reacted, it sounds like someone who had some kind of plan.



She is fourteen so therefor she is a girl. She is nowhere near an adult so I hope you don't try making that argument.

No one is saying that she isn't responsible or that what she did was right. That is not the argument that people are trying to make at all. What people want is help for the girl and instead of a very long sentence. This girl needs help and deserves it as she is not beyond hope. She is still young and therefor we still have chance to make an impact on this young girls life and possibly reform her way of dealing with stress and thinking. No one is making excuses for her because what she did was really horrible but at the same time it's understandable. People do crazy shit under stress. That is nothing new and yeah, she did have a lot of time to think about her issue but that is also a lot of time to deal a with huge amount of stress that keeps building up as her belly gets bigger. Judgement can be skewed by a number of things and stress is definitely one of them.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Mochi said:


> What the girl did is horrible, but she's 14. A fucking teenager.



And if she was 4 years older, everyone would be claiming for her head.

Please, enough of the "She's only 14!"

She made a decision, she knew what she was doing. She even tried to hide the body.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> Killing another person is not something that can be rehabilitated.



I call bullshit, if you kill one person there is hope but if you kill 20+ then you have a mental problem and need to be separated or put down.  Also if you look at  most first world or developing nations. the age of consent, drinking, driving, and applying for the military the age is between 16-18 at the youngest, with America saying you must be 21 to drink. because just because the person dose it is not the same as UNDERSTANDING the consequences.


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## Mochi (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> And if she was 4 years older, everyone would be claiming for her head.
> 
> Please, enough of the "She's only 14!"
> 
> She made a decision, she knew what she was doing. She even tried to hide the body.



Because there is a difference between a 14 year old and a 18 year old


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

And you all want to sugar smother her, give her warm milk, and tell her "It's ok, your parents are the ones at fault. You didn't know what you were doing"

But if she was FOUR years older, everyone would be wanting her to locked in some cage with the key thrown out. Lol, people.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Understandable? There will never be a understandable cause for taking someone's life if your life wasn't in immediate danger. So if someone were to kill you, or someone in your family due to stress would you be able to understand where they are coming from? Answer honestly, don't give me a bullshit generic answer.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Mochi said:


> Because there is a difference between a 14 year old and a 18 year old



Right. The difference is 4, like I've already stated.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> And you all want to sugar smother her, give her warm milk, and tell her "It's ok, your parents are the ones at fault. You didn't know what you were doing"
> 
> But if she was FOUR years older, everyone would be wanting her to locked in some cage with the key thrown out. Lol, people.



I already said if she did the same exact thing at 18 I would not want to "throw away the key" because it is not first nor second degree.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> I call bullshit, if you kill one person there is hope but if you kill 20+ then you have a mental problem and need to be separated or put down.



Oh, no no no no.

It's the PARENTS fault. You know, let's look at how they were raised, and what type of people they were around most of their life. You know, their PARENTS/LEGAL GUARDIANS should of known they would go out and kill 20 people. Fuck, GET THEM FOR CHILD NEGLECT.



> Also if you look at  most first world or developing nations. the age of consent, drinking, driving, and applying for the military the age is between 16-18 at the youngest, with America saying you must be 21 to drink. because just because the person dose it is not the same as UNDERSTANDING the consequences.



Irrelevant. The girl knew what she was doing, and strangled her new born.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> I already said if she did the same exact thing at 18 I would not want to "throw away the key" because it is not first nor second degree.



Then you're being completely backwards. Read my post on the other page btw.

Unless, are you saying that she should still be given help and the parents are at fault?


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## Mochi (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow, why are you such an ass to me nowadays? 

She and her parents are guilty. 
She for being so stupid and get pregnant, hiding it from her parents and killing the baby.
The parents for being dumb enough to not noticing her pregnancy.

You can't tell me that a 14 year old knows how to deal with pregnancy, especially with an unwanted baby


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

as i said before you cant compare killing 20+ to a new born, since the former is someone who has mental problems, and the latter is a girl who was backed in a corner.  besides she killed it right at birth, meaning she wanted an abortion.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

I give up you guys are thick-headed and reiterate the same bullshit argument.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

this is kind of ironic.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Not really I'd be willing to listen to an agrgument, but all I kept seeing is that "She's 14", "She's only a teen", "It's her parents' fault".


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

an d all you said IF SHE WAS 18 YOU WOULD BE MAD.

however I went into detail for each point.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> an d all you said IF SHE WAS 18 YOU WOULD BE MAD.
> 
> however I went into detail for each point.



Oh come off it. You and me both know that's utter bullshit Hammer.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

> You can't tell me that a 14 year old knows how to deal with pregnancy, especially with an unwanted baby



Yeah, news flash. Most 14 year olds do not strangle their own child. 



hammer said:


> as i said before you cant compare killing 20+ to a new born, since the former is someone who has mental problems, and the latter is a girl who was backed in a corner.  besides she killed it right at birth, meaning she wanted an abortion.



What the hell are you even.... lol oh my god

"Backed into a corner"

There are PEOPLE out there whose children are born in WORSE conditions then this daughter's baby, and they FIGHT for the right for their children to live. For fucks sake, quit with the "Oh, poor her. She was backed into a corner. What shalt thou do?"

She STRANGLED her own baby. What she was born with, what she was told as a child, what the MEDIA shows her, TELLS her not to fucking strangle your own new born. It's fucking DISGUSTING that you are trying to justify her actions.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

it is not utter bullshit. I don't believe just because you do an adult thing makes you an adult.  there is a reason the age of consent is not 14 in any first world country.

flow. most 14 year olds DON'T have children to strangle.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

The fact that people are really trying to equate the mindset of a 14 year old to that of an 18 year old(an adult) is pretty sad.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

lol, I can't believe this guy.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> it is not utter bullshit. I don't believe just because you do an adult thing makes you an adult.  there is a reason the age of consent is not 14 in any first world country.
> 
> flow. most 14 year olds DON'T have children to strangle.



Adult I'm still a teen. As a matter of fact I'm not that much older than this girl. 5 years is negligible.  I'm still a teen after all.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

you can't believe I'm not appealing to emotion and want to follow what psychologist and the law both agree on?  


Erio look, just try and look up at the 5 different types of killing, and some things on psychology. you'll be surprised.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Normality said:


> The fact that people are really trying to equate the mindset of a 14 year old to that of an 18 year old(an adult) is pretty sad.



The fact that people are trying to justify the fact this 14 year old girl strangled her own new born, want the parents to be blamed more, and the girl to be smothered with love and care is disgusting, pathetic, and twisted.


----------



## Mochi (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> Yeah, news flash. Most 14 year olds do not strangle their own child.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



News flash. There are more girls in her age who do that. Those girls aren't insane. They're just very desperate and selfish. 

People do some crazy things when they're desperate...

EDIT: FLOW NO ONE SAID SHE SHOULD BE SMOTHERED WITH LOVE.
For god's sake .


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> you can't believe I'm not appealing to emotion and want to follow what psychologist and the law both agree on?



I can't believe you're trying to justify the fact that this girl killed her own child, and you believe the parents are mostly the ones to blame for this.

Correction"


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

I am not defending her, I am just not appealing to emotion.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Mochi said:


> News flash. There are more girls in her age who do that. Those girls aren't insane. They're just very desperate and selfish.



Yeah, statistics? 

If you're talking about a recommended method of abortion (I'm not even sure if what the girl did is considered abortion), then you don't have a point right now.



> People do some crazy things when they're desperate...



It doesn't JUSTIFY what they do.


----------



## eHav (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> No, because if you were paying _any_ attention at all the man and his son's life would be in danger justifying the reaction of killing their assailant protect he and his son's life. Let me ask you did this girl's baby try to kill her, or put her life in danger? No it didn't this was cold blooded.



looks like what i wrote went way over your head, nice reading comprehension.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Normality said:


> The fact that people are really trying to equate the mindset of a 14 year old to that of an 18 year old(an adult) is pretty sad.



The fact that you want to equate this girl to being someone who is innocent, and can't be held responsible for her actions is utterly disgusting, and sad. the difference between a 14 year old, and a 18 year old is 4 years. That is a minuscule amount of time. There are 14 year olds across the world who have to fight for their lives, and survive the best they know how. But do you know why I didn't bring them up? Because they are irrelevant to this topic, as is 18 year olds. 

Hammer: Emotion? I've been speaking from a practical standpoint. Emotionally it's sad it had to come to this, but emotions only cloud judgement, and dilute it.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> I am not defending her, I am just not appealing to emotion.



Yeah, you are. "She was trapped in a corner"

"Her PARENTS(!) are the one to blame, not as much as her!"

You're piggy backing on the law right now, which doesn't mean shit. Do you know the law isn't the "morally correct thing to do". You're pulling it out like it's the bible. Laws can/have been changed for a reason.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Mochi said:


> EDIT: FLOW NO ONE SAID SHE SHOULD BE SMOTHERED WITH LOVE.
> For god's sake .



I'm sure many of you aren't far from it, by how much you're bending over for this "little, trapped, innocent, 14 year old girl."


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

That is not appealing to emotion, it is looking at it from a psychological point of view.  appeal to emotion would be "let her rot in jail"


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

eHav said:


> looks like what i wrote went way over your head, nice reading comprehension.



This is my only reply to you Ehave, you're not good at debates, and result to personal remarks and irrelevant comments. Thus you're not worth acknowledging. Your comment which I fully understood, and refuted were dismissed so you try to insult me, grow up and come back when you can be mature about a discussion.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> That is not appealing to emotion, it is looking at it from a psychological point of view.  appeal to emotion would be "let her rot in jail"



I'm not talking about appealing to emotion. Read again.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> That is not appealing to emotion, it is looking at it from a psychological point of view.  appeal to emotion would be "let her rot in jail"



Because putting her in jail wouldn't be justifiable, and within reason?


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

In hammer's eyes, it's the parents fault and they should be thrown in jail, while the girl is given psychiatric help. But he flaunts the law around as if it's the bible.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

He's forming the law around whatever parts of his arguments he wants to.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

when dose this is not first or second degree mean something should not happen to her?

erio, didn't you admit you don't know the difference between manslaughter and murder?


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> when dose this is not first or second degree mean something should not happen to her?



What? **


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> when dose this is not first or second degree mean something should not happen to her?
> 
> erio, didn't you admit you don't know the difference between manslaughter and murder?



Yes, I did in fact. As I've said before I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, or don't know what I'm talking about. Though that has nothing to do with you and Maus trying share blame with her parents, and Maus trying to write her off as a kid.


----------



## Magic (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> *So since she's young she can be reformed?* I don't think that's how it works, and that is biased.
> 
> It makes my head hurt thinking so many of you write this off as a fucking mistake. A mistake is spilling a drink on the carpet, or forgetting to take out the trash. She fucking strangled a newborn, and tried to dispose of the evidence, she knew what she was doing, but will play on the pity of people like you Hammer to get off easy.



It's easier to reform young people actually.....and we tend to seal their records after that so it doesn't affect the rest of their lives. Juveniles that is. 

why do you think we have prisons.(because in the 1790 iirc) some Quaker believed man can be reformed and reconciled with god for their transgressions. So he built a prison where that person can be in isolation.

Otherwise everywhere people would just be put to death or tortured for committing a crime man. People can change. People make mistakes. This girl made a mistake in judgement. She can be "reformed", with the proper help.  The age matters here....


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## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

Last time I checked 14 was not legal adulthood.... trying her as an adult is silly. Now if she decided to have the baby and then dump it in the woods after then maybe, because that would imply premeditiation and carrying out a more "sound plan" with a more "sound" mind.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> Yes, I did in fact. As I've said before I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, or don't know what I'm talking about. Though that has nothing to do with you and Maus trying share blame with her parents, and Maus trying to write her off as a kid.





Erio Touwa said:


> He's forming the law around whatever parts of his arguments he wants to.


DERP               .


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

RemChu said:


> It's easier to reform young people actually.....and we tend to seal their records after that so it doesn't affect the rest of their lives. Juveniles that is.
> 
> why do you think we have prisons.(because in the 1790 iirc) some Quaker believed man can be reformed and reconciled with god for their transgressions. So he built a prison where that person can be in isolation.
> 
> Otherwise everywhere people would just be put to death or tortured for committing a crime man. People can change. People make mistakes. This girl made a mistake in judgement. She can be "reformed", with the proper help.



While it may be easier, it doesn't guarantee that it is possible.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> when dose this is not first or second degree mean something should not happen to her?



DERP


**


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> The fact that people are trying to justify the fact this 14 year old girl strangled her own new born, want the parents to be blamed more, and the girl to be smothered with love and care is disgusting, pathetic, and twisted.




No one is justifying anything. The problem here is that you refuse to listen to the points of others. Apparently, there's a drought of ears in here.




Erio Touwa said:


> The fact that you want to equate this girl to being someone who is innocent, and can't be held responsible for her actions is utterly disgusting, and sad. the difference between a 14 year old, and a 18 year old is 4 years. That is a minuscule amount of time. There are 14 year olds across the world who have to fight for their lives, and survive the best they know how. But do you know why I didn't bring them up? Because they are irrelevant to this topic, as is 18 year olds.
> 
> Hammer: Emotion? I've been speaking from a practical standpoint. Emotionally it's sad it had to come to this, but emotions only cloud judgement, and dilute it.




I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself so that you can understand that the points you are arguing are not the points we are arguing. Who here has claimed this child to be innocent ?Nobody has said that or implied that, we are simply rebelling against the overly harsh ideas of some of the posters in this thread.

Four years makes a huge difference during teenage years. A 14 year old is a child and an 18 year old is a damn adult. Those four years makes a distinction between a child and an adult. If you cannot see the difference between these two age groups then clearly you're the one who is beyond hope.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

I don't see how that is a derp, by definition this is not first nor is it second.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> DERP               .



Excellent job Hammer, now you've effectively resorted to childish replies. I may not know what constitutes the different degrees, but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you are trying to write off her parents as accessories to the crime.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Chelydra said:


> Last time I checked 14 was not legal adulthood.... trying her as an adult is silly. Now if she decided to have the baby and then dump it in the woods after then maybe, because that would imply premeditiation and carrying out a more "sound plan" with a more "sound" mind.



Hey, it's...

You know, she told her parents she wasn't pregnant, had birth (tried to cover it up), hid the body in a shoe box with soiled clothing, and IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. 

Her mother found the body. Though let me read up to see if all of this is true. Heard more about it today at work.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

how was I the first one who was childish, you said hammer is distorting the law, when you dont even know the law and admit that.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> how was I the first one who was childish, you said hammer is distorting the law, when you dont even know the law and admit that.



Saying you're warping the law isn't the same as saying derp, I was stating that I think you are using the law where it is convenient for your argument. But you simply give a reply of "derp" which can be taken as writing off my argument due to my confusion with the degrees of murder, which wasn't even the current topic.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

the funny thing is, you cant say that after saying you do not know the law.

you said I distort the law plain and simple.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Normality said:


> No one is justifying anything. The problem here is that you refuse to listen to the points of others. Apparently, there's a drought of ears in here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beyond hope? It's nice to know when you have nothing further to argue that you resort to personal remarks. In fact you bringing up her age makes it seem as if you're trying to say that she can't comprehend her crime on the same level an adult can. To which I've stated she knows what she has done, a 14 year old girl knows that it is not acceptable to kill someone, and that there are consequences for doing such a thing. She is more than capable of realizing what she did and what will happen to her for it. It doesn't take an adult to know right from wrong.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> the funny thing is, you cant say that after saying you do not know the law.
> 
> you said I distort the law plain and simple.



I didn't say I don't know the law. I don't know how you could possibly conclude that from me stating I don't know the difference between the different degrees of murder, and what separates them from manslaughter. I do know the law, I wanted to study law in school, though I don't claim to know all of the law. I do understand the law.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

erio, I didn't know you have studied the works of several psychologist to come to the conclusion a 14 year old can think the same way as an 18 year old.  why do you think it is that most countries dont allow people to drive until 18, and they dont let people join the army until 18?

erio it is simple, if you don't know the law you can't say someone distorts it.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> erio, I didn't know you have studied the works of several psychologist to come to the conclusion a 14 year old can think the same way as an 18 year old.  why do you think it is that most countries dont allow people to drive until 18, and they dont let people join the army until 18?
> 
> erio it is simple, if you don't know the law you can't say someone distorts it.



I know law, but I don't know the clauses of each degree or murder. I never said a 14 year old thinks like an 18 year old, in fact I stated not too long ago that she should be more than able to understand what she did, and how the consequences for her actions will affect her.

We weren't even arguing the law, we were arguing her parent's involvement in the crime. And you brought up a totally unrelated argument about me knowing the degrees of murder.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> I know law, but I don't know the clauses of each degree or murder. I* never said a 14 year old thinks like an 18 year old*, i*n fact I stated not too long ago that she should be more than able to understand what she did, *and how the consequences for her actions will affect her.


my point still remains, if you don't understand, you cant say I distort it.

these two contradict each other, and again there is a reason age of consent is 17-18 in America, and most first world countries make you wait until you are 18 to drive, children can do adult things, but don't understand consequences.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Me not knowing one part of the law doesn't mean I don't know the rest of it. That's like me saying since you don't know a word in English that you don't know English. I simply do not know the specifics of the degrees, I know the rest of law. I've even stated honestly I don't know the degrees. And yet you continue to bring it up even though it is unrelated as that wasn't the part of the law I was referring to.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> Beyond hope? It's nice to know when you have nothing further to argue that you resort to personal remarks. In fact you bringing up her age makes it seem as if you're trying to say that she can't comprehend her crime on the same level an adult can. To which I've stated she knows what she has done, a 14 year old girl knows that it is not acceptable to kill someone, and that there are consequences for doing such a thing. She is more than capable of realizing what she did and what will happen to her for it. It doesn't take an adult to know right from wrong.




Dude, that was hardly an insult.

I bring up her age because it's obviously a big part of my argument. What I've been trying to say is that she's not an adult so she shouldn't be expected to reason like one. She knew killing was wrong but she let the circumstances get the better of her and lead her to a heinous crime. It's simple, she collapsed under stress. With an adult they would be expected to withstand and make smarter choices because they are no longer children who have don't have much life experience. 

Right and wrong really depends on who you are. These things aren't black and white and many times people have a hard time differentiating them from  one another.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

You still cant say it, we did not talk about other law we talked about murder, you said you don't know the law on murder, and you said I distort the law, in a thread about murder.  There is no other law to talk about here.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> You still cant say it, we did not talk about other law we talked about murder, you said you don't know the law on murder, and you said I distort the law, in a thread about murder.  There is no other law to talk about here.



Yes I said you distorted the law to fit your need. Bare in mind that not knowing the degrees of murder doesn't mean I'm clueless about the rest of it. I simply don't know what would be 2nd degree murder, though I do know about murder, and that despite, her parents allegedly not knowing about it, they cannot be legally held responsible for their daughter's actions, since they were clueless to it. They did not have any involvement in the crime so they are not responsible tor their daughter's horrible actions. Now if they were involved in the crime at some point they could be held responsible, but they did not know of their daughter's activity, even if that may be a bit dubious we have no evidence to state otherwise. And of course they are innocent until proven guilty, so their daughter is the sole blame in this case.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes they can be held legally responsible it's called gross negligence


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> Yes they can be held legally responsible it's called gross negligence



You'd have to prove that they were neglecting her. The truth of that matter is teenagers are known to be rebelous, and go against their parent's wishes. It is highly likely that they didn't know of her activities. And even if they did know she was pregnant they couldn't foresee her strangling the baby so how would you call this gross negligence? It's not like they just let it transpire, in fact according to them thy had know idea she was pregnant. This actually happened to a friend of mine, her parents were busy, and she'd sneak off and do what she wasn't suppose to, and her parents didn't know until she was showing well enough for it to be obvious. The girl in this story's parents could have also been busy with providing for their daughter, not having enough time to notice her actions. That isn't neglect.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

erio, they stated they did not know so it breaks down to two things, A they lied to not look bad because of keeping face in their community which shows they care more about what others think and not their child, or B they honestly did not know, and anyone who spends 5 seconds looking at any women can tell if she is carrying or not, which shows they neglected her.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

What kind of world do we live in when being too busy to notice someone's pregnant can be called negligence? Even if that's true they didn't enable her to kill the baby. That fell solely on her.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

How can you be to busy to notice your daughter has a baby?  all you need to do is actually look at her once, or notice she is wearing baggy clothes _every single day_. and it is not solely on her, because they did not take the time to notice the baby died.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> How can you be to busy to notice your daughter has a baby?  all you need to do is actually look at her once, or notice she is wearing baggy clothes _every single day_. and it is not solely on her, because they did not take the time to notice the baby died.



That may be very true, but they didn't have a hand in the baby dying though.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes they did, if they so much as talked to her once, then there would have been a good chance the baby had lived, not only that you have to think if she killed the baby moments after birth, why was their no abortion, you can not in good judgment say a 14 year old was able to easily get an abortion.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

That's something hammer can't comprehend.


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## Tsuchi (Oct 3, 2012)

Saying she's a teenager doesn't make what she right, when she was laying on her back doing it at the time she didn't stop to think she was a teenager then


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

lol, hammer. That is idiotic.

You would be one of those people blaming the parents completely for a child going out and shooting up his school.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Tsuchi said:


> Saying she's a teenager doesn't make what she right, when she was laying on her back doing it at the time she didn't stop to think she was a teenager then



Exactly mu point.



Flow said:


> lol, hammer. That is idiotic.
> 
> You would be one of those people blaming the parents completely for a child going out and shooting up his school.



I'm done. I can't win at this point.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer said:


> How can you be to busy to notice your daughter has a baby?  all you need to do is actually look at her once, or notice she is wearing baggy clothes _every single day_. and it is not solely on her, because they did not take the time to notice the baby died.


You do realize that not all women show very much, right?


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Another thing hammer can't comprehend.


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## eHav (Oct 3, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You do realize that not all women show very much, right?



well if ur a fat slob ofc it wont show much.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

eHav said:


> well if ur a fat slob ofc it wont show much.



So many things wrong with that statement, but it would fall on deaf ears anyway.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You do realize that not all women show very much, right?



I cant imagine anyone at 7 or 8 months and not show.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

At least he shows he didn't know. Other people would deny it.


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## eHav (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> So many things wrong with that statement, but it would fall on deaf ears anyway.



still waiting for you to understand what i said in my other post


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

eHav said:


> still waiting for you to understand what i said in my other post



I replied to it, you just refuse to acknowledge it.


----------



## eHav (Oct 3, 2012)

Erio Touwa said:


> I replied to it, you just refuse to acknowledge it.



you replied with something that had nothing to do with it, and when i mentioned that to you, you acted butthurt. go figure


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## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Well, the article said she had a big baby so it definitely showed...


----------



## eHav (Oct 3, 2012)

And shes far from fat to the point where it wouldn't show.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

That doesn't mean anything. Depending on how large the baby is.

You're grasping for a reason to put direct blame on the parents, when she is the one who strangled her own child. Then, tried to hide it.


----------



## Kira U. Masaki (Oct 3, 2012)

For anyone who says the parents had to have known, you haven't seen the show "I didnt know I was pregnant" on TLC/Discovery? There are people who themselves dont know they are pregnant, so I can buy the girl disguising she was pregnant given her stature.

And lets not forget, worse comes to worse, you can put the baby up for adoption.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> That doesn't mean anything. Depending on how large the baby is.
> 
> You're grasping for a reason to put direct blame on the parents, when she is the one who strangled her own child. Then, tried to hide it.



Shouldn't big babies equal big bellies ? 0.o

Funny because I haven't made that argument at all.....


----------



## Tsuchi (Oct 3, 2012)

What the hell was she doing during sex ed class? Sleeping? 

She's 14 years old, she know right from wrong, she has every resource at her disposal and she refused to use them. If the parents said they didn't know I'm not gonna say they're lying because I've known girls who get pregnant and their parents didn't know until they were about to give birth. Some of these girls when they're pregnant and don't want anyone to know they go out and do things they normally would do including buy tampons just for appearance sake, so yeah you can't blame the parents if they said they didn't know.

The point is this girl killed her baby in cold blood without a second thought, was she wrong? Hell yes! 

Should she be punished? Fuck yes!


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Normailty, read the post above yours. A lot of you are showing how ignorant you are regarding the matter.

The people who a lot of you (if this doesn't apply to you, carry on) are arguing that "This girl didn't know what she was doing, she's only 14, etc"

When the fact of the matter is a lot of you are using the worse reasoning ever to defend this girl, and even go as far to put "MOST" of the blame on the parents. 

The parents DID NOT tell her little girl to kill the baby. That's like blaming the abusive parents for all the murders a serial killer commits. Yeah, it's fucked up what the parents did. And that is for ANOTHER case. But the serial killer CHOSE to kill those people.


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> Normailty, read the post above yours. A lot of you are showing how ignorant you are regarding the matter.
> 
> The people who a lot of you (if this doesn't apply to you, carry on) are arguing that "This girl didn't know what she was doing, she's only 14, etc"
> 
> ...




All the above post is talking about is how there is a possibility the parents didn't know. How does that relate to the big baby, big belly thing ? You actually have to read Flow.


----------



## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 3, 2012)

Tsuchi said:


> What the hell was she doing during sex ed class? Sleeping?
> 
> She's 14 years old, she know right from wrong, she has every resource at her disposal and she refused to use them. If the parents said they didn't know I'm not gonna say they're lying because I've known girls who get pregnant and their parents didn't know until they were about to give birth. Some of these girls when they're pregnant and don't want anyone to know they go out and do things they normally would do including buy tampons just for appearance sake, so yeah you can't blame the parents if they said they didn't know.
> 
> ...


It falls on deaf ears Tsuchi.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Because there are PLENTY of babies that are conceived without even the MOTHER knowing.

It's not so simple of "Big baby, big belly HURDURRR". No, not as SIMPLE as you're putting it.


----------



## Chelydra (Oct 3, 2012)

Not to mention the possible mental disorders that can be brought out by pregnancy and child birth but hey lets ignore those and full speed ahead with charging this girl as an adult.  As she was perfectly and mentally sound at the time.

And ignoring the facts she had no access to medical care and stupid parents....


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> Because there are PLENTY of babies that are conceived without even the MOTHER knowing.
> 
> It's not so simple of "Big baby, big belly HURDURRR". No, not as SIMPLE as you're putting it.



I am aware of the fact but if the baby is big then the belly should be big as well because it has to accommodate it. It's like you're not even reading what I'm saying.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Which isn't always the case.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

considering her peers suspected she was pregnant I don't know why her parents didn't.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Either they were lying, in denial, or just honestly didn't know.

I still don't think they deserve as much blame as the child. I can cope that this is all a grey area though, and no one honestly knows what should be done with the girl.


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

you cant compare the friends and family the friends have no barring in raising the person.  You are just being fallacious.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

No, I'm claiming I don't know since 

1. I've never seen a picture of the girl while she was pregnant

2. I don't know how "deluded" her parents could be. 

It's funny how you throw rocks at me after claiming that the parents should be blamed more, where as the girl who STRANGLED her own child. I have nothing against getting this girl help, your reasoning for her defense was JUST SO FLAWED


----------



## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

you are appealing to emotion right now.


----------



## monafifia (Oct 3, 2012)

It would have been better if she had just abandoned the baby in a hospital, her actions were inhumane and unnecessary.

People her age shouldn't be having intercourse anyway.


----------



## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeah, and you think the parents are more at fault than the child. 

Which is why you ignored my accusations earlier. You're that guy who blames the parents for their child doing a school shoot out.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

I already said why you cant compare the two, someone who shoots up a school is either a sociopath or needs meds, if it is the former nothing can help them, if it is the latter then you need to find out why nobody new he was not given meds.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

hammer, you can't comprehend what goes on in the human mind. Nor are you a therapist, psychologist, etc

Hell, you lose ALL credibility when you claim the parents should be blamed more than the child. So please, get off your high horse.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> hammer, you can't comprehend what goes on in the human mind. Nor are you a therapist, psychologist, etc
> 
> Hell, you lose ALL credibility when you claim the parents should be blamed more than the child. So please, get off your high horse.



I don't need to be a therapist to say a person who has to be insane to kill 20+ people for the lulz.


I am not on any high horse at all, I am looking at this in an unbiased manner, and not letting my emotions get the better of me.


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## Ausorrin (Oct 3, 2012)

So when a 14 year old girls kills her child, she has to have some kind of disorder but when teenagers and other females have a doctor do it, they are perfectly sane?

Stop trying to defend this girl acting like she has to be crazy or something for her to have done this.


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

Just in case anyone doesn't want to read back, hammer is stating that the parents are more at fault than the girl who strangled her own child, and that the child should be given some type of leeway. 

He's also jumped to conclusions regarding the birth and how much the girl was showing, and has told people off for having a different opinion than him.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

Totally not baiting me


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

No, just saving people the trouble of reading through your post. It's not baiting if that's what you've stated.


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## hammer (Oct 3, 2012)

It's baiting because you are distorting my posts. and you think putting STRANGLED in caps makes your point better


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## EJ (Oct 3, 2012)

No, that's what you've stated. 

Be a man to your word.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Oct 3, 2012)

I see that besides my posts....Flow has to distort other people's posts !


Child....go play with people your own age if you are going to be like that.


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## Kakashifan727 (Oct 3, 2012)

This thread is still going on?  It's just become a back and forth argument bwt these two. Let it die,


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## Samehada (Oct 4, 2012)

Flow said:


> Just in case anyone doesn't want to read back, hammer is stating that the parents are more at fault than the girl who strangled her own child, and that the child should be given some type of leeway.
> 
> He's also jumped to conclusions regarding the birth and how much the girl was showing, and has told people off for having a different opinion than him.





hammer said:


> Totally not baiting me





Flow said:


> No, just saving people the trouble of reading through your post. It's not baiting if that's what you've stated.





hammer said:


> It's baiting because you are distorting my posts. and you think putting STRANGLED in caps makes your point better





Flow said:


> No, that's what you've stated.
> 
> Be a man to your word.



This thread has totally gone down hill  

Lurking for the LOLZ


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## ImperatorMortis (Oct 4, 2012)

> Goodson gave birth to the 9.5 pound, 20.4-inch baby on Sept. 19 and used scissors to help ?pry the baby out,? investigators said.
> 
> She stuffed a towel in her own mouth and turned on the faucet so her parents wouldn?t hear any noise, the teen told investigators.



I missed this initially. 

Jesus Christ man.


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## AuxunauxiaNoname (Oct 4, 2012)

Soul said:


> Perhaps the law should start punishing the parents for shit like this.



If she killed someone and you believe the parents should be held accountable... what about the guy? 

It takes two to screw. 

The guy should be held just as responsible as the parents, if not more so. 




> Perhaps.
> She is still an idiot.



No offense is intended by the following statement towards the South or Flordia... or religious people.

When measuring idiocy, you have to take into account population and sampling error. 

But I suppose she is pretty dumb. She is also quite insane.



> Then this is a good lesson.
> 
> She is an idiot who made a mistake and couldn't handle the consecuences. Fuck her, she has not sympathy for me.



A lesson is only learned if there is a chance to benefit from it. Punishment without a chance to show what is learned is nothing more than vindictiveness on part of the one advocating for it. 

How would she show that she has learned her lesson if she goes to jail for life or is killed?

If her life is ended however, at least the state gets spared the tax dollars of housing her. Would you agree with this statement? 



> And is that so wrong?



Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on whether you personally can sleep at night. Or perhaps it just doesn't affect you so you don't care. In which case, right or wrong becomes rather moot and you're just staring at the freaky horror show for a reason unknown.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 4, 2012)

horse60000 said:


> I'm sorry you can't be logical.



Yes, because comparing a baby's life to that off a animal is clear logical.


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## strongarm85 (Oct 4, 2012)

Some statics for you.

Teen pregnancy is four times higher among evangelical christians. Evangelicals also claim three times higher abortion rates than other groups by their ratio of the population.


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## AeolusXII (Oct 10, 2012)

I blame American society, sexual education (lol abstinence) there's fault with the parents as well.

Not saying she isn't guilty, just a sad situation all around.

She deserves whatever she gets though, for being so stupid. 

Honestly, who hides a body in their own room? 

Certainly not a deranged psychopath like some of the idiots spouting death penalty in this thread.

Just another frightened incredibly stupid teenager.


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