# BM Minato Vs Hashirama....



## Trojan (Sep 7, 2014)

I honestly, was going to put base Minato, but then Goose is always good to ruin my fun... 

Location: current
Distance: 50 meters
Mindset: IC
Intel: full for Minato (since he came after Hashirama), None for Hashirama (since he died before)
Conditions and Restrictions: 

1- Minato already has his marks (in the same locations as in canon)
I.E;

all around Konoha
the sea
the area of the 3rd War
some random fodders that he taged
his Kunai's location in this war

2- Minato can summon Ma/Pa to have unlimited SM if he wants. 
3- He gets his jutsu from the game, because it's fucking awesome.  



**************
I tried to imagine that Hashirama is faster than 8th gate gai, has stronger jutsu than the Juubi, or perhaps his woods are bigger/stronger than JJ Madara's.., but nah, even though all those feats were accomplished in base, but Goose! 
(yes, he makes me mad some times lol )

so, without any further do, start!


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## Ruse (Sep 7, 2014)




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## Trojan (Sep 7, 2014)

^

No spam please, your post doesn't serve any purpose. ^_^


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## Empathy (Sep 7, 2014)

Do you really believe that Minato cut those huge branches with only a kunai in his mouth instead of just cutting off the smaller parts humans were dangling from? Why didn't he just cut Obito directly in half when he had the chance?


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## Trojan (Sep 7, 2014)

> =Empathy;51668336]Do you really believe that Minato cut those huge branches with only a kunai in his mouth instead of just cutting off the smaller parts humans were dangling from?


Yes, I do. 


> Why didn't he just Obito directly in half when he had the chance?



plot. The same reason why he did not beheads him, the same reason he saved his life from Kakashi...etc


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## Rocky (Sep 7, 2014)

Obviously if Hashirama gets caught up in that Kunai barrage he's going to get blitz-shredded by the flash dance.

He probably won't get caught, though, because he fights primarily with his giant wood. I suppose that with no knowledge he could enter close quarters and get Bamflashed, but he also has regeneration.

But then he'd be marked.

It could go either way.


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## Empathy (Sep 7, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Yes, I do.



Why exactly?


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## Trojan (Sep 7, 2014)

because he said he did.


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## Trojan (Sep 7, 2014)

Rocky said:


> He probably won't get caught, though, because he fights primarily with his giant wood. .



Base Minato's can throw the Kunais extremely fast though (faster than Kamui can activate)
and every time he managed to get his Kunais near to his opponent, like JJ Madara for example. So, I don't think this would be a problem for him, as it has never been a problem really. @>@


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## Cognitios (Sep 7, 2014)

Just put two scenarios
- one for base minato
- one for bm minato


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## Trojan (Sep 7, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Just put two scenarios
> - one for base minato
> - one for bm minato





did not think of that. lol
even though it will probably be point-less as some people deny the manga, and pretend the scans with Gai, and the branches never existed.


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## Lord Aizen (Sep 8, 2014)

I don't see anyone but a juubi Jin beating BM minato


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## Alex Payne (Sep 8, 2014)

When did Minato cut _Hashirama's_ wood?


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## Kaaant (Sep 8, 2014)

Hashirama still slaughters.


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## Ghost (Sep 8, 2014)

I got cancer from reading the OP. Nice fanfic Minato you have going on in there.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

alex payne said:


> When did Minato cut _Hashirama's_ wood?



I did not say it's Hashirama's, but madara's. The links for the scans are all in the OP. ^_^



saikyou said:


> I got cancer from reading the OP. Nice fanfic Minato you have going on in there.



Hopefully,  AIDS will be next, but what fanfiction are you talking about?


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## Complete_Ownage (Sep 8, 2014)

Posting in a Hussain Minato wanking bait thread !

I would hope Minato would win under these circumstances


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Complete_Ownage said:


> Posting in a Hussain Minato wanking bait thread !
> 
> I would hope Minato would win under these circumstances



- lol, well there is nothing much from the last chapter to go with, so it can't be helped. 

- well, since Hashirama is not the Juubi's host he is not likely to hit Minato anyway. 
as in the manga you need to be the Juubi's host to be able to hit Minato at least once. 

there is a reason to why Minato is the only Hokage who did not get defeated completely, you know.


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## Alex Payne (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> I did not say it's Hashirama's, but madara's. The links for the scans are all in the OP. ^_^


So what was the point of listing that feat?


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

alex payne said:


> So what was the point of listing that feat?



As I stated if I opened a thread about base Minato Vs Hashirama, Goose will be so fast to find it. lol
even though Minato in base was able to deal with the Juubi's attack (a million time stronger than Hashirama's ) and outpaced 8th gate Gai (several times faster than Hashirama), and cut the woods without arms (bigger and stronger than Hashirama's)

so, I was curious to how Hashirama is going to be able to deal with base Minato exactly, but those feats usually get denied, and as such Goose will lock it as well. 

so, BM was just to create a reason for the thread to not be locked so to speak lol.


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## t0xeus (Sep 8, 2014)

With limitless chakra from Kurama, Minato can just spam Hiraishin and guarantee by it that he doesn't get hit from anything that Hashirama can pull off.

Also, not sure if Hashirama IC goes into SM right from the start, but if he does, Minato with full knowledge just smashes his head with rasengan. 

BM Minato takes this with high difficulty though, since Hashirama's defence is ridiculous and he if he realizes that Minato uses his brother's S/T jutsu, he might block all Minato's kunais, but I doubt that it will happen before Minato slays him.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

^

just curious, but how Hashirama's defences are going to be useful when Minato teleport to attack?


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## Alex Payne (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> and cut the woods without arms (bigger and stronger than Hashirama's)


Hashirama's Wood can stop Bijudama, temporarily stop Perfect Susano's Sword and overpower+restrain full Kyubi. 
Wood that "bigger and stronger" than Hashirama's was smashed by Hiruzen's casual attacks twice, stopped by Orochimaru's casual snake jutsu and cut through by Tobirama's casual Suiton. 

If you want to wank something - at least do it right. Look at them Itachi-fans for example.


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## Senjuclan (Sep 8, 2014)

Hashirama lives rent free in your head ... Obsessed with the dude much?


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Hashirama's Wood can stop Bijudama, temporarily stop Perfect Susano's Sword and overpower+restrain full Kyubi.
> Wood that "bigger and stronger" than Hashirama's was smashed by Hiruzen's casual attacks twice, stopped by Orochimaru's casual snake jutsu and cut through by Tobirama's casual Suiton.
> 
> If you want to wank something - at least do it right. Look at them Itachi-fans for example.



pfff, sorry but how does that make the Tree's weaker, rather than Hiruzen and Tobirama's attack being stronger?

by your logic we might as well say that Kurama and madara are weak rather than saying Hashirama is strong. 

of for example, Itachi is weak because he is effected by Tayuya's Genjutsu rather than the genjutsu being strong...
the Juubi's TBB is weak rather than the Hokage's barrier being powerful....etc

that's just such a terrible logic.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Senjuclan said:


> Hashirama lives rent free in your head ... Obsessed with the dude much?



Not really, but Minato won't be able to do much against the Juubi's hosts, his child, Kaguya..etc
so that as good as you can get.


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## Turrin (Sep 8, 2014)

If Minato fused with the Toads and had BM, so BSM, he'd probably put up a good fight against Hashirama, but still loose to Senpo Shin Suusenju. 

The bottom line is Base-Minato needed help from Kushina to deal with Kurama alone. That should tell you EMS Madara could just summon Kurama and Minato would at best have to sacrifice his life to deal with that. Giving Minato 50% Kurama would probably enable him to defeat just Kurama w/o having to give up his life, but doing so w/ extremely high diff. But than add in P-Susano'o and he's overwhelmed again. Giving him Jiriaya's Toad-SM-Fusion would maybe allow him to fight competetively against P-Susano'o + Kurama, but not the ultimate Kurama-Susano'o mecha or Senpo ShinSuusenju that defeated it. 

Minato needs 100% Kurama and Toad-SM-Fusion to beat EMS-Madara and have a chance at beating Hashirama. The levels are simply too far apart.


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## Senjuclan (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Not really, but Minato won't be able to do much against the Juubi's hosts, his child, Kaguya..etc
> so that as good as you can get.



Dude, you post in every Hashirama thread ... LOL ... Kinda creepy


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## Alex Payne (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> pfff, sorry but how does that make the Tree's weaker, rather than Hiruzen and Tobirama's attack being stronger?


Bijudama, Kyubi and Perfect Susano are weaker than Hiruzen's basic Enma swing, Orochimaru's basic snake summon and Tobirama's low-scale Suiton?


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Turrin said:


> If Minato fused with the Toads and had BM, so BSM, he'd probably put up a good fight against Hashirama, but still loose to Senpo Shin Suusenju.
> 
> The bottom line is Base-Minato needed help from Kushina to deal with Kurama alone. That should tell you EMS Madara could just summon Kurama and Minato would at best have to sacrifice his life to deal with that. Giving Minato 50% Kurama would probably enable him to defeat just Kurama w/o having to give up his life, but doing so w/ extremely high diff. But than add in P-Susano'o and he's overwhelmed again. Giving him Jiriaya's Toad-SM-Fusion would maybe allow him to fight competetively against P-Susano'o + Kurama, but not the ultimate Kurama-Susano'o mecha or Senpo ShinSuusenju that defeated it.
> 
> Minato needs 100% Kurama and Toad-SM-Fusion to beat EMS-Madara and have a chance at beating Hashirama. The levels are simply too far apart.



- How is the Buddha not going to get warped by the S/T barrier exactly, Turrin? 
or do you think Hashirama's Buddha is stronger than the Juubi's TBB? 

and since he's fused with them, how is Hashirama going to survive Frog Song in your opinion? 


- I don't know what do different situations have to do with each other, by your logic we might as well say
that Minato ended a great war, but both Hashirama and his brother failed to end one. 

- if he has the frogs, how is the PS going to stay against the sound based jutsus exactly, Turrin?

- Nah, they are not, otherwise Minato wouldn't have left all the Hokages in the dust during this war, and outshine all of them combined. That simply the different between them.  



Senjuclan said:


> Dude, you post in every Hashirama thread ... LOL ... Kinda creepy



I post in a lot of threads, and always the same is said, Itachi's fans would say the same, and so would Tobirama's, Kakashi's, Hashirama's, Madara's fans...etc. Even though I don't just select one over the others, it's what's there. lol 



alex payne said:


> Bijudama, Kyubi and Perfect Susano are weaker than Hiruzen's basic Enma swing, Orochimaru's basic snake summon and Tobirama's low-scale Suiton?



Again, what I'm saying is you should give credits rather than discredits something else. Because if that does not make sense to you, saying Hashirama is stronger than the Tree is even worst.  

Hiruzen's stuff is as hard as a Diamond, you can't get beyond that, so for it to destroy woods is 100% legit.


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## Turrin (Sep 8, 2014)

@Hussain

Please don't go down the path of the Itachi-fandom where you feel like your fav character also needs to be the strongest. Just appreciate your fav character for other attributes besides strength or the strength your fav character has already shown. Hell, your fav character at his best would stomp all my fav characters (Except perhaps Kakashi), and i'm cool with that.


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## Complete_Ownage (Sep 8, 2014)

I have to agree with other..

BM Minato is still not on Hashiramas level


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

my favourite is Narudo. 

but I'm really asking to know, why wouldn't the Buddha get warped exactly? 
Where was it shown or stated that he can't get teleported? So I may understand your perspective. I have no problem with accepting that if it does exist....


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## Turrin (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> my favourite is Narudo.
> 
> but I'm really asking to know, why wouldn't the Buddha get warped exactly?
> Where was it shown or stated that he can't get teleported? So I may understand your perspective. I have no problem with accepting that if it does exist....


Where has Minato shown he can warp something the size of the Senpo ShinSuusenju?


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## Rocky (Sep 8, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Where has Minato shown he can warp something the size of the Senpo ShinSuusenju?



The Ten Tails Bijuu Bomb was about as large as the statue.


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## Turrin (Sep 8, 2014)

Rocky said:


> The Ten Tails Bijuu Bomb was about as large as the statue.



No it wasn't. 

Senpo Shinsuusenju dwarfed Kurama-Susano'o fusion:
casual Suiton

Juubi bomb was large, but not that large.


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## Rocky (Sep 8, 2014)

The bomb _dwarfed_ the Hachibi, who was actually in the _foreground. _


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 8, 2014)

Replace Madara's PS Kurama with Minato'S BM avatar. Hashirama vaporises him with the gatling punch.


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## Lord Aizen (Sep 8, 2014)

If minato creates 100 shadow clones throws 1000s of FTG kunais around the field I don't see how hashirama can beat him. He would be untouchable. Unless the buddas arms can attack in every possible direction at once


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Where has Minato shown he can warp something the size of the Senpo ShinSuusenju?



Turrin, the TBB was bigger than the Juubi itself. 

and Minato did it without dropping a sweat for God's sake.  

Here the TBB is as big as the Juubi's body
_dwarfed_

Shika states that it's bigger and bigger
_dwarfed_
and in the second panel from the bottom it became bigger than the Juubi

here it's still getting bigger and bigger
_dwarfed_

and again, BASE Minato did that without a sweat, what's even stopping him of doing a bigger one if he needs to
especially with his KCM/BM???



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Replace Madara's PS Kurama with Minato'S BM avatar. Hashirama vaporises him with the gatling punch.



what stop Minato from teleporting behind the Buddha?


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## Rocky (Sep 8, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Replace Madara's PS Kurama with Minato'S BM avatar. Hashirama vaporises him with the gatling punch.



Madara doesn't have Hiraishin.

Minato's never been one to try and overpower his opponent. He won't rush straight into close combat with that big ass statue like Madara idiotically did.


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## Cognitios (Sep 8, 2014)

> Minato's never been one to try and overpower his opponent. He won't rush straight into close combat with that big ass statue like Madara idiotically did.


tell that to juubito


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## Rocky (Sep 8, 2014)

I don't see what you're saying.


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## t0xeus (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> ^
> 
> just curious, but how Hashirama's defences are going to be useful when Minato teleport to attack?



I mean he can use his mokuton to block Minato's hiraishin kunais, after Hashirama realizes that Minato uses hiraishin.


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## Hachibi (Sep 8, 2014)

Rocky said:


> I don't see what you're saying.



He mean when he lost his right arm (traumating memories for Hussain) he rushed to Juubito (who just achieved his second form).

OT: BM Minato is basically a BM Naruto with Hiraishin, who Edo Madara was able to react tho (and sending him a Uchiha Gaenshin among the way) and Edo Hashirama (who is weaker than his living counterpart according to Tobirama) was able to keep up with him. If Hashirama enter SM it goes downhill for Minato, he will gonna be attacked everywhere due to Hashi's Wood and if he get catched by Myojinmon it's basically GG if Hashirama follow with Shinsusenju right off the bat.

Hashirama win more time than not high-diff.

inb4 Hussain


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## Rocky (Sep 8, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> He mean when he lost his right arm (traumating memories for Hussain) he rushed to Juubito (who just achieved his second form).



Minato rushed fat Jūbito, who transformed into Controlled Jūbito mid-blitz and countered.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> He mean when he lost his right arm (traumating memories for Hussain) he rushed to Juubito (who just achieved his second form).
> 
> OT: *BM Minato is basically a BM Naruto with Hiraishin, *who Edo Madara was able to react tho (and sending him a Uchiha Gaenshin among the way) and Edo Hashirama (who is weaker than his living counterpart according to Tobirama) was able to keep up with him. If Hashirama enter SM it goes downhill for Minato, he will gonna be attacked everywhere due to Hashi's Wood and if he get catched by Myojinmon it's basically GG if Hashirama follow with Shinsusenju right off the bat.
> 
> ...



Good, and since Narudo > Hashirama (as BZ stated) then it makes sense that Minato is as well stronger.


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## Hachibi (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Good, and since Narudo > Hashirama (as BZ stated) then it makes sense that Minato is as well stronger.



You do realise that BM Naruto was getting overwhelmed by Edo Madara, someone Edo Hashi stalemated with.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 8, 2014)

Senjuclan said:


> Hashirama lives rent free in your head ... Obsessed with the dude much?



Rent free is pretty good.  Some characters charge.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 8, 2014)

I still don't get what warping the statue accomplishes.  He can only move it to another marker.  So great, Hashirama can still use it just fine over there.  Just now instead of the statue being in one spot, he moved it 50 feet over, and it only cost him a bunch of chakra to do so.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I still don't get what warping the statue accomplishes.  He can only move it to another marker.  So great, Hashirama can still use it just fine over there.  Just now instead of the statue being in one spot, he moved it 50 feet over, and it only cost him a bunch of chakra to do so.



unless he send it to the sea, for example!


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> You do realise that BM Naruto was getting overwhelmed by Edo Madara, someone Edo Hashi stalemated with.



you do realise that Edo Madara got fodderized from Lee, someone who has a tiny bit of Narudo's chakra, right?


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## Hachibi (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> you do realise that Edo Madara got fodderized from Lee, someone who has a tiny bit of Narudo's chakra, right?



So Itachi defeated Nagato after all


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

He did with Narudo's help (and B). 

you're just trying to justify Madara's getting stomped. lol


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## Hachibi (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> He did with Narudo's help (and B).
> 
> you're just trying to justify Madara's getting stomped. lol



I was talking about when Nagato got Amat'd

It was basically the same thing, unless you believe Lee >> Gokage (who Madara toyed with) and Itachi >> KCM Naruto and B.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Nagato was not trying to even fight though. 

anyway, lest stay on topic
1- Who do you think has the stronger attack, the Juubi, or Hashirama?
2- who's faster Hashirama or 8th gate gai?

the answers should have only names, either Juubi or Hashirama for the first one
either Hashi or Gai for the second one, ok? 

and btw madara got serious against the Gokage, and he only survived because of the fact of being an Edo.
Otherwise, he would have been killed by the jinton.


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## Hachibi (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Nagato was not trying to even fight though.
> 
> anyway, lest stay on topic
> 1- Who do you think has the stronger attack, the Juubi, or Hashirama?
> ...



1) Juubi, tho Hashi's Buddha can come close with accumulated damage
2) Lolinterception feat. Suigetsu is V1 Ei level of speed with them

You do realise that he let himself get hit by the Jinton to show them Hashi's face right? He could just absorb it like he did later.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 8, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Madara doesn't have Hiraishin.
> 
> Minato's never been one to try and overpower his opponent. He won't rush straight into close combat with that big ass statue like Madara idiotically did.



Minato can't use Hirashin with Kyuubi form.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

says who? 



> 1) Juubi, tho Hashi's Buddha can come close with accumulated damage
> 2) Lolinterception feat. Suigetsu is V1 Ei level of speed with them
> 
> You do realise that he let himself get hit by the Jinton to show them Hashi's face right? He could just absorb it like he did later.


1- Good, so since base Minato dealt with it, he can deal with far weaker attack.
2- pfff, except Minato was not off-paneled, we actually saw everything happened.  
and you did not even answer the question! 

Is Gai faster or Hashirama, it's really that simple!  

- lol, I'm talking about the cubic Jinton at the end.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> says who?



Manga


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## Hachibi (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> says who?
> 
> 
> 1- Good, so since base Minato dealt with it, he can deal with far weaker attack.
> ...



-Implying strenght matter against S/T Barrier
-I did awnser the question, not directly. And Suigetsu's feat wasn't off-paneled 
The one who made Madara horny 

-Which he deal without much trouble, heck he didn't even need to attack them with PS.

Inb4translationargument


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Manga



scan. 



Hachibi said:


> -Implying strenght matter against S/T Barrier
> -I did awnser the question, not directly. And Suigetsu's feat wasn't off-paneled
> The one who made Madara horny
> 
> ...




1- Which is why Hashirama's power is irrelevant. lol 
2- pfff, yes it was. but anyway, since you know that 8th gate gai is faster
and Minato > 8th gate gai in speed, it's enough to know that there is no way Hashirama is dodging Minato's attacks.  

3- Because he's ET, otherwise he would have lost his body. lol

and lol, yeah that translation is wrong, and he used his PS.


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## Hachibi (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> scan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



- Implying I care if Minato manage to teleport Wood Buddha or not.
-SM Minato got owned by Juubidara, who got blitzed by 8th Gate Gai and Base Minato is faster than Gai.
Where's the logic here?

-He dodged it and conpletely negated it with PS. He would have done the same alive.

Then you wonder why the battlefield is still here and where the tree that cut Tsunade in half come form.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> scan.


He never used it, so I am assuming he can't.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> - Implying I care if Minato manage to teleport Wood Buddha or not.
> -SM Minato got owned by Juubidara, who got blitzed by 8th Gate Gai and Base Minato is faster than Gai.
> Where's the logic here?
> 
> ...



1- Then why the heck were you debating ... 
2- JJ Madara got owned by BZ, who got owned by the young swordsmen, where is the logic
of JJ madara being stronger than Mei's Bodyguard?  


there is your logic, nice and clear.  

- that tree is just to cover Tsunade's body, not because it cut her in half, I'm honestly astonished how some people still don't get those basic stuff. :rofl



Grimmjowsensei said:


> He never used it, so I am assuming he can't.





how you think he got himself free from the Tree's roots though? 
and how is having more chakra will make it harder for him to teleport, when even Tobirama who's not in his level
was able to teleport the avatars? 

and just so you don't say why did not Minato do it himself, it's because Tobirama is the one who has his mark on obito.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 8, 2014)

Tree Durability:

Mokuton and magic trees gain strength by the amount of chakra that's condensed in the beyond what's needed to grow. 

Example:  Yamato makes extra strong chakra reinforced wood to shackle Kisame.

The giant tree is just eating up chakra and growing.  It's durability is therefore going to be base mokuton.  The minimum needed to grow and expand.  Hashirama makes his mokuton for combat.  Meaning, he's making super dense reinforced mokuton to form his constructs.  

So world tree should be weaker per square foot than Hashi's constructs and hands and stuff.


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## Trojan (Sep 8, 2014)

!

I always wonder how people come up with these sort of things! O_o


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## Veracity (Sep 9, 2014)

lol the Justu Madara used to cocoon the Shinobi world isn't durable at all. Madara being enchnaced by the Juubi doesn't mean shit at all. The God tree is the beginning of chakra. The whole being of the Juubi which is basically limitless chakra and Mifune can cut that shit.

Hashirama's Mokuton tanks Sussano sword slashes and BjuiiDama. Yet god trees is cut by a sword swung by a pussy. You know why ? Cause those types of Justu aren't made for defense like Hashirama.


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## Trojan (Sep 9, 2014)

> =Likes boss;51676622]lol the Justu Madara used to cocoon the Shinobi world isn't durable at all.


How do you know? And when did Minato state anything about that, rather than the branches? 


> Madara being enchnaced by the Juubi doesn't mean shit at all. The God tree is the beginning of chakra. The whole being of the Juubi which is basically limitless chakra and Mifune can cut that shit.


*dumbfounded*



> Hashirama's Mokuton tanks Sussano sword slashes and BjuiiDama. Yet god trees is cut by a sword swung by a pussy. You know why ? Cause those types of Justu aren't made for defense like Hashirama.


No, they did not tank jack shit, they got cut down.. 
or blown up...


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## Hachibi (Sep 9, 2014)

Hussain said:


> 1- Then why the heck were you debating ...
> 2- JJ Madara got owned by BZ, who got owned by the young swordsmen, where is the logic
> of JJ madara being stronger than Mei's Bodyguard?
> 
> ...



-Because you're my friend 
-So basically Chojuro is Top Tier, the legitness. And I don't think you know that BZ's betrayal wasn't even a fight

Implying that because it happened in panel mean it make sense. So Sakura truly hurt Kaguya then ck

-Why would he want to cover Tsunade's body with a tree if it wasn't for cutting her in two


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## Trojan (Sep 9, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> -Because you're my friend
> -So basically Chojuro is Top Tier, the legitness. And I don't think you know that BZ's betrayal wasn't even a fight
> 
> Implying that because it happened in panel mean it make sense. So Sakura truly hurt Kaguya then ck
> ...



-  
- It does not matter if it makes sense or not, Kishi does not give a darn about logic, so what matters is what actually happened. Madara being able to attack Minato makes no sense either, but it happened...

- Obviously because this manga is meant for kids...


----------



## Cognitios (Sep 9, 2014)

> - Obviously because this manga is meant for kids...


Manga with nudity meant for kids


----------



## Veracity (Sep 9, 2014)

Hussain said:


> How do you know? And when did Minato state anything about that, rather than the branches?
> 
> *dumbfounded*
> 
> ...



I know because it's not a defensive Justu ? It's the same reason this happens to the GOD TREE: _sneak attack_
By Mifune .

While this Hashirama Mokuton does this : _sneak attack_
_sneak attack_
Tanking BjuiiDama explosion and catching PS swords .

So You think Mifunes sword strike > PS sword strike or Bjuuidama?


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 9, 2014)

Hussain said:


> how you think he got himself free from the Tree's roots though?


Dunno, how did he do it ? 



> and how is having more chakra will make it harder for him to teleport, when even Tobirama who's not in his level
> was able to teleport the avatars?
> 
> and just so you don't say why did not Minato do it himself, it's because Tobirama is the one who has his mark on obito.



How is Minato going to hold a kunai with kyuubi's hands and throw it with precision ? 

Even if it is technically possible, implementing hirashin into bijuu avatars fighting style is practically impossible.


----------



## Trojan (Sep 9, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Manga with nudity meant for kids



No one said that Kishi did not fuck up though. 
and even with nudity, it does not really have that much, and the last one they were all men, and only
their upper body was shown, which is ok. 



Likes boss said:


> I know because it's not a defensive Justu ? It's the same reason this happens to the GOD TREE: here.
> By Mifune .
> 
> While this Hashirama Mokuton does this : here.
> ...



- how the heck is that attack a defensive attack exactly when it attacked everyone? 
- yeah, and Hashirama's wood is weaker than the Tree, so the same thing would happen to his woods. 
- in your first link, the wooden golem took most of the blast, and that's why it was blown up, but not
Hashirama's other jutsu. 

- lol, you seriously still can't differentiate between tanking and stopping it that way?  
his wood did not tank jackshit, if you took upon yourself the little suffering to watch the bottom panel
you would have seen all of Hashirama's wood getting cut down, which is painfully obvious, and since you apparently can't see it, let me help you...


getting cut is not tanking. 
and please, I think someone with your mentality should be able to AT LEAST, know that the sides of a sword are not sharp, not anyone use them to cut down things, for God's sake. 

That's basic, even pre-schoolers know that. 
That's just like how Narudo stopped the sword here. 
here.
that does not mean that if he got ACTUALLY attacked from the sharp side that he won't get his arm cut off...


I don't care if you don't understand those basic stuff honestly, but I do care that kishi understands them perfectly...



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Dunno, how did he do it ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



- you can figure it out yourself, if you can't, I'll tell you. 

- why does he need to do with Kurama's hands exactly anyway? He can use his own hands, and/or he can make clones to throw the Kunais if he did not already at the start of the fight, it's not really that complicated! 


- It's no impossible, we have seen both Minato and Tobirama teleporting Kurama, and so did Kakashi to the Hachibi to attack Madara and Obito. The same thing Kaguya does with her teleportation jutsu.

it was not even hinted that it's impossible, so I don't know from where you came up with that idea, except for the fact that it's too broken, which is why you don't want to believe it.
(and I can't blame you, it IS broken! )


----------



## Hachibi (Sep 9, 2014)

Hussain said:


> -
> - It does not matter if it makes sense or not, Kishi does not give a darn about logic, so what matters is what actually happened. Madara being able to attack Minato makes no sense either, but it happened...
> 
> - Obviously because this manga is meant for kids...



-So JJ Madara is slower than JJ Obito? Also agree with the first part of your paragraph (or whatever it is spelled)

-Must be why people take other people's eyes in this manga ck


----------



## Veracity (Sep 9, 2014)

@Hussain 
What ? Defensive attacks defend. The god tree was an offensive attack, hence the reason Mifune could cut the tips. You have to also realize that Mokuton constructs don't hold the same durability throughout the entire construct. Hence why branches are destroyed by the Emma staff but the core takes a Lava Style : Rasen Shiruken to bisect. You further have to realize that's it's even more so with Hashirama constructs because because they are built in a humanly image. Hence why it could catch a PS sword, but was lopped off at the wrists. 

Yeah I really doubt the golem blocked anything : _sneak attack_ 
His Wood Hotei tanked a majority of the damage as his golem was obliterated basically instantly.

Okay you do realize what I'm gonna bring up to explain to you why catching a PS sword would still require a shit ton of Durabilty and why your example with Naruto is terrible. Prolly because PS sword swings don't function like the fodder you presented. They create mountain slicing shockwaves with straight up air pressure like in the panel you brought up: _sneak attack_

Mountains getting ripped to shreds without even the impact of the sword itself.  It would still require a massive amount of Durabilty to catch something like that. And since that still doesn't convince you let me bring up the fact that Hashirama golem was tanking PS slashes with it's body against Edo Madara: _sneak attack_
Or his Buddah pushing and tanking Bjuii shiruken: _sneak attack_


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## Cognitios (Sep 9, 2014)

Hussain naruto has shown non censored dick. It's not for kids


----------



## Trojan (Nov 5, 2014)

O.K, since the last thread violated so many rules, and we are free to present out opinions without locking them for no reason (sarcasm), I guess I'll just post in this previous thread. Though it would probably get the same fate because why the hell no. U_U

@Kyu



> ....Why do this to yourself Hussain?



the argument for Hashirama have always been.
1- The Buddha and it will destroy the whole area around, and thus, the Kunais. However, the 4th Databook tells us Hashirama's Buddha is short-mid range jutsu.

which makes that argument not as strong any more, and as long as Minato stay more than 10m away, he's fine.

2- the second argument is, Madara avoided Tobirama's attack, then he can do the same with Minato. 

However, the databook tells us that Tobirama's FTG-Giri is only B-rank jutsu, on the other hand Minato's FTG is S-rank jutsu, 2 higher levels, so that argument is not as good either. 

Even Hashirama's Gates, wooden hands, wooden Dragons are all short-mid range jutsus. U_U
which is unlike what most people thought they are. 

@Legendary Itachi


> Not enough false hype for Minato in DB, it seems.  While Hashi gets every hype he deserves in DB.



I'm not talking about hype, I don't know what their pages say. I'm talking about the range of their jutsus.

@blackguyinpinksuit



> Hussain calm down


I'm calm. I don't have the power to be anything else honestly, so tiered. U_U

@Grimmjowsensei



> This is like Drunk Dialing.
> 
> Only that Hussain is rage threading.



I honestly don't know what are you talking about. U_U

anyway, I guess this thread will get locked anyway, and I'll get banned because how dare I post... U_U


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 5, 2014)

Hussain : Road to getting banned

You really need to chill bro. Take a week off or something.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 5, 2014)

Well, its just some hours and the manga ends.


----------



## Hachibi (Nov 5, 2014)

>Using ninja rank in a manga about demi-gods



Also, why you revive this shitty thread?


----------



## Trojan (Nov 5, 2014)

1- Don't know what are you talking about. Also, stop saying retarded things like "demi-gods" that's blaspheme. There is no such thing as "demi-gods" or "god*s*" 

2- if you don't like the thread, you're welcome to leave. U_U


----------



## Hachibi (Nov 5, 2014)

Hussain said:


> 1- Don't know what are you talking about. Also, stop saying retarded things like "demi-gods" that's blaspheme. There is no such thing as "demi-gods" or "god*s*"
> 
> 2- if you don't like the thread, you're welcome to leave. U_U



1- You got what I mean anyways.

2- There's no need to bring back this thread. Why don't you make a new one instead?


----------



## Trojan (Nov 5, 2014)

^

I made a new one, but guess what? The Goose started the pilgrimage because of the cold to my thread!
huh, lucky me.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Nov 6, 2014)

Before the manga ends, I just want to make it clear that Hashirama stomps Minato.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 6, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Before the manga ends, I just want to make it clear that Hashirama stomps Minato.



Not really. 
Minato fodderstomps Hashirama in 1 second. 


Hashirama needs the Juubi's power to stand a chance.


----------



## sabre320 (Nov 6, 2014)

Im new here as a member so u hey but been reading for quite a while honestly its surprising how much leeway hashirama gets just cuz you know he is hashirama god of shinobi but the fact is hype should not dictate the battledome for eg minato un surpassable ect.Considering the abilities of both i would have to go with minato but no stomp is occuring on both sides!!.....

.what you have to realize is the feats minato displayed as an edo are greatly underrated and overlooked the argument that hashirama will just use large scale jutsu to destroy all markers and kunai is countered very easily by the simple fact that when the hokage made their entrance minato far outpaced the other hokage hell he managed to put markers around the juubi the battlefield which was massive considering it involved the juubi hell he put a kunai how many miles away in the sea....before anyone registered his presence or the hokage had even arrived this was in base......

Then comes bm the fact that this is essentially a teleporting ninetails jinchhuriki is greatly understated.....Minato can put marks all over the battlefield through the use of speed and clones..once that is done minato has a massive mobility advantage hashiramas normal woodjutsus are destroyed by a simple bijuudama which unfortunately cannot be countered by catching as minato can position himself such through teleporting that the bijudama land n blindspots and instantly on target through space time barrier.Now comes the shinsensenju now here i would like to address the fallacious argument that minato will be in the same situation as madara was...going head on vs the giant construct at point blank spamming bijuudama....while the far more likely situation is that hw would keep his distance charge a superbijudama  and teleport it into the buudha pointblank this will cause massive damage if not render it useless..a very good argument can also be made that it could be teleported quite a distance away through the use use of a clone placing a mark a hundred miles away this is very possibel considering the feat of him placing the seals around juubi while in base.

Worst comes to worse minato has the option of simply summoning ma and pa keep his distance through the use of speeds and clones going in multiple directions placing marks once ma and pa prepare frogsong minato can teleport back and unleash the genjutsu which will affact hashirama from a distance and its essentially gg by this point minato will be quite exhausted to it would have been a high difficulty battle.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 6, 2014)

^
Another Minato fan is all we needed. Army of Hussain grows strong


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## sabre320 (Nov 6, 2014)

@Grimmjowsensei .....sigh ya real mature refute my arguments tell me how my scenario is so unbelievable on the flipside i can say another hashi fan! lolll minato stomps! ...dosent sound so good right


----------



## Elite Uchiha (Nov 9, 2014)

Its pretty clear that BM Minato > Hashirama.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Its pretty clear that BM Minato > Hashirama.



LOL what? Hashirama slaughters Minato, BM or not.

What speed feats Minato has? Beating Obito when Obito was not in his prime? Beating Raikage who also was not in his prime and without his V2 Lightning Armor? None of those feats is above what Hashirama did - fought equally with Edo Madara while he was weakened because of his Edo state and clones around the battlefield.

And what BM Minato did? Teleported TBB that was already slowed down by Killer Bee? Came to battlefield before other Kage? Well, it was a part of their plan. And even if he truly came there faster than others, it would be a travel speed feat, not a combat speed feat. 

Edo Madara dodged Gaara's sand *effortlessly*. The same sand that easily reacted to *PRIME* Raikage with his V2 Lightning Armor and blocked Amaterasu. Also, Madaras *CLONE* used a Susanoo that was so fast it forced Raikage to block its punch. Why Raikage didnt dodge it? Probably because he wasnt fast enough. Later another Madara's clone took him and put him in a genjutsu.

All those feats are above anything Minato has done. In terms of travel speed, Minato is above Madara, but in terms of combat speed, Madara is above Minato.

And Hashirama, who was not in his full power and with clones all around the battlefield that also weakened him, fought *ON PAR* with Edo Madara.

All that puts both Hashirama and Madara in a speed tier higher than that of Minato. 

And in this battle? Hashirama beats him.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> LOL what? Hashirama slaughters Minato, BM or not.
> 
> What speed feats Minato has? Beating Obito when Obito was not in his prime? Beating Raikage who also was not in his prime and without his V2 Lightning Armor? None of those feats is above what Hashirama did - fought equally with Edo Madara while he was weakened because of his Edo state and clones around the battlefield.
> 
> ...



Im not even going to touch the other stuff....way too much hate...but Hashirama a tier above bm minato in speedck


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Im not even going to touch the other stuff....way too much hate...but Hashirama a tier above bm minato in speedck



I am not hating. I am hating those fans that are overrating Minato so much. Thats it. 

And i already explained why Hashirama is faster than Minato in combat speed.


----------



## Cognitios (Dec 7, 2014)

this thread is still alive
ck

Hashirama vs BM Minato goes Hashi High Diff due to elemental advantages + SM gives him a boost to win
Hashirama vs KCM Minato goes Hashi mid-high diff for the same reasons
Hashirama vs SM Minato goes Hashi no-low diff, self explanatory
Hashirama vs Minato goes Hashi stomp, self explanatory

No form of Minato can beat a nongimped Hashi.
Even gimped Hashi can put up a fight.


----------



## Amol (Dec 7, 2014)

BSM Naruto is without a doubt stronger than Hashirama.
BM Minato has to be on par or stronger than that to win .


----------



## Cognitios (Dec 7, 2014)

BSM Naruto loses to Hashi due to Bijuu being weak against Moukton.
Jins have a natural disadvantage against him.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> BSM Naruto loses to Hashi due to Bijuu being weak against Moukton.
> Jins have a natural disadvantage against him.



Lol juubito loses to hashirama because he is a jinchurikick seriously dont overrate mokutons capabilities fact is beside shinsensenju all mokuton get destroyed by a simple bijudama explosion...as in canon then we have naruto spamming  senpo chou oodama rasenshuriken through bm clones...while a single frs in bm was capable of capableof cutting the juubis tails which tanked bijuudama and multiple alliance attacks boosted by km at the same time ya...but u know mokuton.. juubidara also falls before the wood..

He needs contact to execute this control unfortuantely this ninetails has ftg..the fact that this is essentially a teleporting ninetails jinchhuriki is greatly understated.....Minato can put marks all over the battlefield through the use of speed and clones..once that is done minato has a massive mobility advantage hashiramas normal woodjutsus are destroyed by a simple bijuudama which unfortunately cannot be countered by catching as minato can position himself such through teleporting that the bijudama land n blindspots and instantly on target through space time barrier.Now comes the shinsensenju now here i would like to address the fallacious argument that minato will be in the same situation as madara was...going charging head on vs the giant construct at point blank spamming bijuudama....while the far more likely situation is that he would keep his distance charge a superbijudama and teleport it into the buudha pointblank this will cause massive damage if not render it useless..a very good argument can also be made that it could be teleported quite a distance away through the use use of a clone placing a mark a hundred miles away this is very possible considering the feat of him placing the seals around juubi while in base.

Worst comes to worse minato has the option of simply summoning ma and pa keep his distance through the use of speeds and clones going in multiple directions placing marks once ma and pa prepare frogsong minato can teleport back and unleash the genjutsu which will affact hashirama from a distance and its essentially gg by this point minato will be quite exhausted to it would have been a high difficulty battle.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> I am not hating. I am hating those fans that are overrating Minato so much. Thats it.
> 
> And i already explained why Hashirama is faster than Minato in combat speed.



Yup you really proved that


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Yup you really proved that



Yes, i did. 



> all except shinsensenju get destroyed by a simple bijudama explosion...as in canon



Have you ever watched a chapter with a fight between Hashirama and Madara? Hashirama's mokuton can withstand TBB easily, he can stop PS blade with his mokuton. And hashirama beats BSM Naruto.



> BSM Naruto is without a doubt stronger than Hashirama.
> BM Minato has to be on par or stronger than that to win .



Can you explain why is he stronger than Hashirama?


----------



## Amol (Dec 7, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> BSM Naruto loses to Hashi due to Bijuu being weak against Moukton.
> Jins have a natural disadvantage against him.



It is not just Bijuu though .
It is a Jinchuriki who has full cooperation of his Bijuu and who is amped by SM.
Feats also disagrees with you .
Hashirama is not some invisible god .
With BSM Naruto surpassed him.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Yes, i did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ya and bm avatar tail can deflect a ps strike whats ur point ....as soon as the tb exploded...all the mokuton surrounding hashirama was destroyed as was the woodgolem  and wood dragon....get ur facts straight...


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

Amol said:


> It is not just Bijuu though .
> It is a Jinchuriki who has full cooperation of his Bijuu and who is amped by SM.
> Feats also disagrees with you .
> Hashirama is not some invisible god .
> With BSM Naruto surpassed him.



Bring here BSM Naruto's feats that surpass Hashirama's feats.



> Ya and bm avatar tail can deflect a ps strike whats ur point ....as soon as the tb exploded...all the mokuton surrounding hashirama was destroyed as was the woodgolem ....get ur facts straight...



That tail was a tail a being with half of Sage of Six paths power. And Hashirama easily protected himself from TBB with his mokuton. Get YOUR facts straight.

I also wanna know how Minato suppose to make a TBB that is as powerful as Full Kurama's while fighting Hashirama.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Bring here BSM Naruto's feats that surpass Hashirama's feats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ans that sword was from a being with half of the sage of six paths power...and hashirama hid underground with a bunker jutsu while all of his arsenal was eradicated including the woodgolem and dragon.........minato in bm cant make a tbb as big as a normal one from kurama.....dude enjoy ur hatin u truly are impressive..


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Ans that sword was from a being with half of the sage of six paths power...and hashirama hid underground with a bunker jutsu while all of his arsenal was eradicated including the woodgolem and dragon.........minato in bm cant make a tbb as big as a normal one from kurama.....dude enjoy ur hatin u truly are impressive..



He didnt hid underground. he used his mokuton to defend himself from TBB explosion. 

I am not hating. But BM Minato cant beat Hashirama. The only shinobi who can beat him is 8 Gates Guy.


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 9, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Ya and bm avatar tail can deflect a ps strike whats ur point ....as soon as the tb exploded...all the mokuton surrounding hashirama was destroyed as was the woodgolem  and wood dragon....get ur facts straight...



Not so sure if they were actually destroyed or dismissed.

Naruto and Sasuke were quite damaged when their attacks clashing(Indra's Arrow and FRS+Bijuudama rasenshuriken) destroyed PS and BM.

Hashi and Madara were hardly hurt after that explosion.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 9, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> Not so sure if they were actually destroyed or dismissed.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke were quite damaged when their attacks clashing(Indra's Arrow and FRS+Bijuudama rasenshuriken) destroyed PS and BM.
> 
> Hashi and Madara were hardly hurt after that explosion.



They were destroyed hence ceased to exist after the explosion with hashirama hiding underground in a bunker jutsu... why in gods name would hashirama dismiss his woodgolem and dragon against madara and kyuubi?

whats naruto and sasukes attacks clash got to do with anything? when naruto was using his simple bm and sasuke was using his ps without bijuu naruto blocked ps sword with 1 tail....and not to mention they were using the second strongest attacks in the series in the final clash

Never claimed a simple bijuudama explosion would destroy hashi i claimed it would destroy most of his arsenal except shinsensenju


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> They were destroyed hence ceased to exist after the explosion with hashirama hiding underground in a bunker jutsu... why in gods name would hashirama dismiss his woodgolem and dragon against madara and kyuubi?
> 
> whats naruto and sasukes attacks clash got to do with anything? when naruto was using his simple bm and sasuke was using his ps without bijuu naruto blocked ps sword with 1 tail....and not to mention they were using the second strongest attacks in the series...
> 
> Never claimed a simple bijuudama explosion would destroy hashi i claimed it would destroy most of his arsenal except shinsensenju



Hashirama did not hid underground. Go read manga, or watch anime. he used his mokuton to protect himself from that explosion. 

And except his protective construct that he used in his fight with Madara. Also, he fought against Full Kurama.

BM Minato cant protect himself from Hashiramas attacks. His arsenal is a counter to jinchuuriki of any kind, except Juubi jinchuuriki. 

Hashirama wrecks BM Minato.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 9, 2014)

Is minato's BM just unlimited here because if he presumably has that 5-8 minute time limit naruto had i don't see him destroying hashi's buddha and killing him in time. Hashirama is not outgunned in anyway besides speed so it's not like minato can just fodderize it.

Unless minato miraculously got a mark on or next to hashi via kunai i don't even see him reaching hashi when on the buddha. Kurama wouldn't have enough time to build up power once they run out either unless hashi was being dumb. FTG is a good dodging/stalling option but he won't survive without that cloak.

Hashirama should end this once minato runs out of juice.


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Is minato's BM just unlimited here because if he presumably has that 5-8 minute time limit naruto had i don't see him destroying hashi's buddha and killing him in time. Hashirama is not outgunned in anyway besides speed so it's not like minato can just fodderize it.
> 
> Unless minato miraculously got a mark on or next to hashi via kunai i don't even see him reaching hashi when on the buddha. Kurama wouldn't have enough time to build up power once they run out either unless hashi was being dumb. FTG is a good dodging/stalling option but he won't survive without that cloak.
> 
> Hashirama should end this once minato runs out of juice.




Besides speed? Hashirama is faster than BM Minato.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 9, 2014)

No...he really isn't.


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> No...he really isn't.



Fought equally with Edo Madara, who dodged Gaara's sand effortlessly and whose clones easily reacted to prime Raikage. That alrady puts him in a speed level higher than that of Minato. And Hashirama can just suppress him just like Madara did to naruto using Hashirama's Dragon. Hashirama stomps.


----------



## Cognitios (Dec 10, 2014)

> It is not just Bijuu though .
> It is a Jinchuriki who has full cooperation of his Bijuu and who is amped by SM.
> Feats also disagrees with you .
> Hashirama is not some invisible god .
> With BSM Naruto surpassed him.


Are you saying Jins aren't weakened by Moukton?
Okay
There's no point in debating with you if you're going to be that blind to manga fact.


----------



## SSMG (Dec 10, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Fought equally with Edo Madara, who dodged Gaara's sand effortlessly and whose clones easily reacted to prime Raikage. That alrady puts him in a speed level higher than that of Minato. And Hashirama can just suppress him just like Madara did to naruto using Hashirama's Dragon. Hashirama stomps.



Minato reacted to Eis full speed with ease though too so these don't correlate.


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 10, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Minato reacted to Eis full speed with ease though too so these don't correlate.



When Raikage was young, unexperienced, without chakra on a tailed beast level, without Body Flicker, and without the same V2 Armor as the one he used against Sasuke. Prime Raikage in Shippuden is for sure much more powerfull than his younger self that confronted Minato.


----------



## Cognitios (Dec 10, 2014)

If you put the current raikage in the same situation the younger was in then the current raikage would have smashed minato's face.
If you think that 20 years did nothing to his speed then that's your issue.
Regardless he lost an arm so he's bound to be faster due to that lost weight


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 10, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> If you put the current raikage in the same situation the younger was in then the current raikage would have smashed minato's face.
> If you think that 20 years did nothing to his speed then that's your issue.
> Regardless he lost an arm so he's bound to be faster due to that lost weight



Well, there are some characters that didnt have any progress through years. But, in case with Raikage, it is obvious there was a lot of progress. He likes to work out and any person who watches anime, or read manga, knows that. He learned Body Flicker, he obtained chakra comparable to that of a tailed beasts etc. It must be obvious that Raikage became faster and,overall, better. But some Minato fans refuse that, although its pretty obvious.


----------



## ARGUS (Dec 10, 2014)

Amol said:


> BSM Naruto is without a doubt stronger than Hashirama.
> BM Minato has to be on par or stronger than that to win .



wrong,
BSM naruto is not superior to hashirama at all when he has nothing on SS at all, 
it slams the TBB right back at him,and Chojo Kobetsu wrecks him as well, 
it can also pick narutos avatar like a puppy and puts it to sleep through Kakuan Nitten Suishu


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 10, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> They were destroyed hence ceased to exist after the explosion with hashirama hiding underground in a bunker jutsu... why in gods name would hashirama dismiss his woodgolem and dragon against madara and kyuubi?
> 
> whats naruto and sasukes attacks clash got to do with anything? when naruto was using his simple bm and sasuke was using his ps without bijuu naruto blocked ps sword with 1 tail....and not to mention they were using the second strongest attacks in the series in the final clash
> 
> Never claimed a simple bijuudama explosion would destroy hashi i claimed it would destroy most of his arsenal except shinsensenju



Hmmm, i do not remember hashi hiding underground.

And what about madara? Did he hide too and if not why was he unhurt when the bijuudama destroyed his ps?

If hashi can grab a bijuudama with mokujin then he can probably throw it back at kurama. And with a super bijuudama a 1000s of shinsenjus arms could possibly equal a super bijuudama. Alternatively he could try to change its trajectory with mokuton as his clone claimed to be capable if with juubitos bijuudamas.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 10, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> Hmmm, i do not remember hashi hiding underground.
> 
> And what about madara? Did he hide too and if not why was he unhurt when the bijuudama destroyed his ps?
> 
> If hashi can grab a bijuudama with mokujin then he can probably throw it back at kurama. And with a super bijuudama a 1000s of shinsenjus arms could possibly equal a super bijuudama. Alternatively he could try to change its trajectory with mokuton as his clone claimed to be capable if with juubitos bijuudamas.



Look again.

Huh i never claimed the bijudama destroyed his ps.....what u talkin abt?
Thats why i said he can teleport the bijudama to a blindspot or onto shinsensenju through spacetime barrier..


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 10, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> wrong,
> BSM naruto is not superior to hashirama at all when he has nothing on SS at all,
> it slams the TBB right back at him,and Chojo Kobetsu wrecks him as well,
> it can also pick narutos avatar like a puppy and puts it to sleep through Kakuan Nitten Suishu



wood golem and wood dragon were destroyed by a simple bijudama explosion...as in canon then we have naruto spamming senpo chou oodama rasenshuriken through bm clones...while a single frs in bm was capable of capableof cutting the juubis tails which tanked bijuudama and multiple alliance attacks boosted by km at the same time ya...but u know mokuton.. juubidara also falls before the wood.. shinsensenju is certainly not more durable then the juubi neither are his hands more durable then its tails...bsm naruto was tagging juubito he can easily keep his distance and spam spam chou oodama rasenshuriken...


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## Arles Celes (Dec 10, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Look again.
> 
> Huh i never claimed the bijudama destroyed his ps.....what u talkin abt?
> Thats why i said he can teleport the bijudama to a blindspot or onto shinsensenju through spacetime barrier..



Well, in that case you claimed at least that it destroyed mokujin and mokuryu. Mokujin is the equivalent of ps as we saw in the war so if it was destroyed so should ps. That is why i ask if madara did hide too and if not why he was unhurt.

And hashi wont be able to deflect a bijuudama with shinsenjuu? Or grab it given how shinsenjuu could grab a 100% kurama like a mouse. Bijuudamas hardly explode instantly.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 10, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Is minato's BM just unlimited here because if he presumably has that 5-8 minute time limit naruto had i don't see him destroying hashi's buddha and killing him in time. Hashirama is not outgunned in anyway besides speed so it's not like minato can just fodderize it.
> 
> Unless minato miraculously got a mark on or next to hashi via kunai i don't even see him reaching hashi when on the buddha. Kurama wouldn't have enough time to build up power once they run out either unless hashi was being dumb. FTG is a good dodging/stalling option but he won't survive without that cloak.
> 
> Hashirama should end this once minato runs out of juice.



The 5-8 min limit was because naruto used the bm for the first time and it was the first time kyuubi allowed naruto free will over his chakra and he was inexperienced with his connection..minato had years in the deathgods stomach where he got a connection with kurama..he is not inexperienced with kurama..minato can casually spam bijudama these size [1]
and teleport them onto shinsensenju through space time barrier.

Minato likes to spam markings and almost always likes to place marking in a location faraway to teleport attacks and to recouperate
[1]
[1]
[1]
[1]

He placed a marking hundreds of miles into  the sea considering the size of juubidams blast
through his shunshin placed markings for the hokage barrier and teleported the juubidama while no one even registered his presence all the while hashirama didnt even make it to the battle quite a bit later even though they did none of the afromentioned tasks....this was in base

He makes clones in bm or kcm clones 1 clone shunshins away and places a marking a miles away like was the case in the sea...he others place markings all over the battlefield..if we assume minatos bm runs out he can teleport to the seal the clone placed miles away for kurama to put bm back..why are you assuming it will be miraculous for minato to place a marking against shinsensenju it is a huge target a mark can be made by sacrificing a kcm clone tagging it through shunshin or ftg kunai..

Minato was capableof teleporting an attack much larger then the juubi in base...shinsensenju is about the same size as the juubi [1] he can teleport the buudha to the marker placed by the earlier clone miles away thus rendering hashirama vulnerable..

Worst comes to worse minato summons ma and pa keeps his distance through ftg and shunshin and waits for frog song to charge up then he uses frogsong hashirama gets caught in frogsong and its a gameender.

To act like minato is bm naruto is fallacious he is a top tier ninja without bm with one of the most hax utility jutsu in the manga.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 10, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> Well, in that case you claimed at least that it destroyed mokujin and mokuryu. Mokujin is the equivalent of ps as we saw in the war so if it was destroyed so should ps. That is why i ask if madara did hide too and if not why he was unhurt.
> 
> And hashi wont be able to deflect a bijuudama with shinsenjuu? Or grab it given how shinsenjuu could grab a 100% kurama like a mouse. Bijuudamas hardly explode instantly.



Mokujin matches the offensive power of ps but dosent come close to the defensive prowess of ps...

I mentioned markings and space time barrier like 5 times to position the bijudama into blindspots and directtly onto markings..


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 10, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Mokujin matches the offensive power of ps but dosent come close to the defensive prowess of ps...
> 
> I mentioned markings and space time barrier like 5 times to position the bijudama into blindspots and directtly onto markings..



If that was true then the battle between madaras ps and hashis mokujin would have ended with madaras victory. Their creations were clearly evenly matched. Kyuusano is the equivalent of Shunsenjuu.

And though some hate the databook it describes mokujin as being kuramas equal. So it would seem 100%kurama=mokujin=ps.

Im not sure if hashi can be so easily marked especially given his moku bushin mastery that even fooled madara. And the space barrier can be noticed by hashi before the bijuudama that comes out of it explodes in hashis face. If hashi reacts in time he can catch with shinsenju even a pretty big bijuudama imo. Besides minato never used his barrier offensively...like not redirecting juubis bijuudama against him.


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## sabre320 (Dec 10, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> If that was true then the battle between madaras ps and hashis mokujin would have ended with madaras victory. Their creations were clearly evenly matched. Kyuusano is the equivalent of Shunsenjuu.
> 
> And though some hate the databook it describes mokujin as being kuramas equal. So it would seem 100%kurama=mokujin=ps.
> 
> Im not sure if hashi can be so easily marked especially given his moku bushin mastery that even fooled madara. And the space barrier can be noticed by hashi before the bijuudama that comes out of it explodes in hashis face. If hashi reacts in time he can catch with shinsenju even a pretty big bijuudama imo. Besides minato never used his barrier offensively...like not redirecting juubis bijuudama against him.



and yet..
[1]
[1]

we see ps survived and mokujin did not..
It is kuramas nemesis because it has the ability to supress it..

I meant marking shinsensenju or mokujin there is no forewarning to attacks teleported with space time barrier and they are teleported instantly just like its users like the juubidama
 [1] 
[1]

why in gods name would he teleport the juubidama into the juubi if he wanted to save the alliance?


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 10, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> and yet..
> [1]
> [1]
> 
> ...



Didnt madara just create another ps to use it as an armor for kurama? It makes no sense given how said ps armor has no damage whatsoever. It would be silly if mokujin was destroyed by something that ps can resist undamaged. Clearly mokujin is hashis equivalent of ps.

And how will minato mark those constructs? Unless his bm avatar can do so he needs to touch it personally which would be extremely dangerous and in top of it hashi could notice. And hashu certainly is knowledgable enough about it given how tobiramas abilities are similar.

Well, if teleporting bijuudamas of such power into an opponent that is close enough to you is not an option why would minato use a super bijuudama on hashi when said explision can reach him too? Otherwise why not teleport said bijuudama into juubis mouth to explode inside the bijuu as hachibi tried?


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 10, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> The 5-8 min limit was because naruto used the bm for the first time and it was the first time kyuubi allowed naruto free will over his chakra and he was inexperienced with his connection..minato had years in the deathgods stomach where he got a connection with kurama..he is not inexperienced with kurama..minato can casually spam bijudama these size [1]
> and teleport them onto shinsensenju through space time barrier.
> 
> Minato likes to spam markings and almost always likes to place marking in a location faraway to teleport attacks and to recouperate
> ...



Hashirama can change battlefield around him so it wont be pissible for Minato to use his teleportation. He wouldnt teleport any attack, or Hashirama's Shinsuusenju and mokuton golem. 

And lol, casually? He never made such Bijuudama's casually. And while he makes it, he can be suppresses, or Hashirama can dodge it. He has already shown he is capable of reacting to TBB.

Simple TBB's arent a problem for Hashirama. 

Also, Hashirama is faster than BM Minato in terms of combat speed. The fact he fought equally with Edo Madara already puts him above BM Minato in terms of combat speed. 

And another fact - Madara used Hashirama's mokuton dragon and easily suppressed Naruto's Kurama half.

And lol, what frog song? Do you realy think he can put hashirama in a genjutsu? No he cant. And hashirama is excellent in a genjutsu himself. 

Just face it - BM Minato has no chance against Hashirama.


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## sabre320 (Dec 10, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Hashirama can change battlefield around him so it wont be pissible for Minato to use his teleportation. He wouldnt teleport any attack, or Hashirama's Shinsuusenju and mokuton golem.
> 
> And lol, casually? He never made such Bijuudama's casually. And while he makes it, he can be suppresses, or Hashirama can dodge it. He has already shown he is capable of reacting to TBB.
> 
> ...



you have no knowledge about the manga make absurd baseless statements are stubborn and keep repeating the same thing even when every user has proved u otherwise and not to mention a blatant hater...no point arguing with u good day..


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 10, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> you have no knowledge about the manga make absurd baseless statements are stubborn and keep repeating the same thing even when every user has proved u otherwise and not to mention a blatant hater...no point arguing with u good day..



Ok, you lost this debate. Thats good.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 10, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> Didnt madara just create another ps to use it as an armor for kurama? It makes no sense given how said ps armor has no damage whatsoever. It would be silly if mokujin was destroyed by something that ps can resist undamaged. Clearly mokujin is hashis equivalent of ps.
> 
> And how will minato mark those constructs? Unless his bm avatar can do so he needs to touch it personally which would be extremely dangerous and in top of it hashi could notice. And hashu certainly is knowledgable enough about it given how tobiramas abilities are similar.
> 
> Well, if teleporting bijuudamas of such power into an opponent that is close enough to you is not an option why would minato use a super bijuudama on hashi when said explision can reach him too? Otherwise why not teleport said bijuudama into juubis mouth to explode inside the bijuu as hachibi tried?



No he did not make a new sussano making ps takes a massive toll on madaras reserves as he was unable to make another when shinsensejus assult broke it...it makes sense as i said ps cannot produce enough offensive power to destroy mokujin but its defensive prowess is far above..

Hashiramas constructs are about the same speed as kurama and minatos shunshin in base was capable of saving  kushina faster then kurama can strike down from across the distance of konoha..
_poison-like_
_poison-like_

It was able to tag kurama from across konoha with his shunshin 
_poison-like_

Now imagine his shunshin in bm not to mention he can utilise ftg to land a mark he can also create bm and kcm clones that can also be used as a sacrifice to land a mark..

Bm avatar managed to tank  a juubis laser which overpowered 11 bijudama and then ploughed through a mountain range...he can survive the aftershock not to mention he can use clones to place markers miles away to use as a charging spot from range like when he put a marker in the sea..


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## ARGUS (Dec 10, 2014)

Minato doesnt stand much of a chance once SS is out


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## Trojan (Dec 10, 2014)

SS 

People still fooling themselves of thinking Hashiram's Buddha is stronger than the Juubi. lol
or its power is ever relevant against the barrier. Denial at its best. 

or that his Buddha is faster than Minato, and it has even a chance of touching him. lol

*********
@sabre320

I think PS is WAY stronger than Hashi's Golem in term of offensive power. However, it can stop Madara's slashes midway, and that's why it can keep up with him.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 11, 2014)

Hussain said:


> SS
> 
> People still fooling themselves of thinking Hashiram's Buddha is stronger than the Juubi. lol
> or its power is ever relevant against the barrier. Denial at its best.
> ...



Yes, it is. It withstood multiple TBB's enchanced with PS blade easily and suppressed Kurama. So yeah - it is stronger. Hashirama suppressed all nine Bijuu with his mokuton. And Madara easily suppressed Kurama's half when he used his Mokuton Dragon. Jinchuuriki are weak against Mokuton, except 10 Tails.

Minato cant teleport around because Hashirama can change the battlefield with his mokuton easily. And thats also the reason why he cant teleport hashirama's attacks.

Hashirama is much faster in terms of combat speed. Edo Madara, who is weaker and slower than EMS Madara, dodged Gaara's sand. The same sand that reacted to V2 Armor Raikage and Amaterasu. And weakened Hashirama fought with that Madara equally, plus managed to immobilise him. 

BM Minato's Kurama state cant keep up always, since Kurama needs to restore his chakra. And Kurama can be easily suppressed anyway.

TBBs are non-factor. Hashirama's Mokuton is strong enough to withstand that + hashirama has reaction speed to dodge TBB easily. 

Also, hashirama can fight for the whole day non-stop, plus he has regeneration and durability enough to withstand Bijuu's atacks (remember what Madara did after he got Hashirama's Sage Mode).

Even Tobirama is faster than BM Minato. He put a teleportation formula on Juubito and taged him with several explosives when they had confrontation. And what BM Minato did? Got himself easily beaten and lost his arm? Tobirama is faster in terms of combat speed. And Hashirama as the most powerfull shinobi of his time, plus he has experience with Hiraishin, since Tobirama, his brother, created it.

Hashirama stomps. BM Minato cant beat him.


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## sabre320 (Dec 11, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> Minato doesnt stand much of a chance once SS is out



Yup absolutely make a blanket statement.. .......madara was a reckless idiot for charging into a head to head fist fight with it theres no need to get into a head on battle with it.....minato is perfectly capable of keeping his distance and landing superbijudamas onto it through spacetime barrier....not to mention he teleported a attack bigger then shinsensenju 100 of miles away ...same is easily possible by sending a clone away from the battle and placing a mark miles away..


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## Arles Celes (Dec 11, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> No he did not make a new sussano making ps takes a massive toll on madaras reserves as he was unable to make another when shinsensejus assult broke it...it makes sense as i said ps cannot produce enough offensive power to destroy mokujin but its defensive prowess is far above..
> 
> Hashiramas constructs are about the same speed as kurama and minatos shunshin in base was capable of saving  kushina faster then kurama can strike down from across the distance of konoha..
> blown away
> ...





If he cannot create another ps then how did he managed to deal with a still standing Shinsenju, mokujin, mokuryu and Hashi himself still in SM?

Shinseju also managed to emerge unhurt(except from losing most of its arms) despite the huge explosion which involved at least a dozen bijuudamas powered with ps swords. And BM avatar lost most of its tails to survive despite said laser losing momentum by having to go through those small bijuudamas.

Also what will minato do when 1000s of those arms that could easily grab 100% kurama come at him? Sure he can teleport away to his home but then hashi can make a forest and hide while using a mokubushin to fight minato. Minato would then waste chakra fighting a fake on top of mokujin while the real hashi recovers and gathers power in SM. 

Minato can only handle 4 bijuudama size projectiles at a time so he cannot teleport 1000s of 100% kurama sized punches at once.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 11, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> If he cannot create another ps then how did he managed to deal with a still standing Shinsenju, mokujin, mokuryu and Hashi himself still in SM?
> 
> Shinseju also managed to emerge unhurt(except from losing most of its arms) despite the huge explosion which involved at least a dozen bijuudamas powered with ps swords. And BM avatar lost most of its tails to survive despite said laser losing momentum by having to go through those small bijuudamas.
> 
> ...



By that time hashirama did not have the chakra reserves to mantain his constructs and had to engage in cqc..same for madara..
Umm stop downplaying the juubis laser it easily ploughed through the bijudama and still managed to carve through a mountain range with ease...when those huge hands come towards him he keeps his distance using his excellent shunshin that is boosted by bm and by using ftg and he teleports giant bijudama onto it to cause massive damage...shinsensenju takes a massive toll on hashis reserves he cant make it again..hashirama did not use his constructs again in the fight he could not replenish his reserves through the night even with sage mode..kurama through meditating can recover the bm in minutes..his mokubunshin are fodder madara in partial sussano could destroy them while not trying...not to mention minato has shown the abilty to tell kagebunshin apart..Minato has no need to teleport the punches he teleports the buudha...the juubidama he teleported was much bigger the the juubi and bigger then shinsensenju and minato accomplished that in base..not to mention minato can summon ma and pa and prepare frog song while teleporting to the far away marker and teleport back to use frogsong and thats a game ender from range..


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 11, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> By that time hashirama did not have the chakra reserves to mantain his constructs and had to engage in cqc..same for madara..
> Umm stop downplaying the juubis laser it easily ploughed through the bijudama and still managed to carve through a mountain range with ease...when those huge hands come towards him he keeps his distance using his excellent shunshin that is boosted by bm and by using ftg and he teleports giant bijudama onto it to cause massive damage...shinsensenju takes a massive toll on hashis reserves he cant make it again..hashirama did not use his constructs again in the fight he could not replenish his reserves through the night even with sage mode..kurama through meditating can recover the bm in minutes..his mokubunshin are fodder madara in partial sussano could destroy them while not trying...not to mention minato has shown the abilty to tell kagebunshin apart..Minato has no need to teleport the punches he teleports the buudha...the juubidama he teleported was much bigger the the juubi and bigger then shinsensenju and minato accomplished that in base..not to mention minato can summon ma and pa and prepare frog song while teleporting to the far away marker and teleport back to use frogsong and thats a game ender from range..




You, Minato fanboy, likes to put his feats but forget about some thing that are downplaying those feats. He teleported JTBB that was already *slowed down drastically* by 8 Tailes. Now i want you to prove BM Minato could teleport it without Killer Bee's help.

Hashirama can easily react to Bijuu Dama, since he alrady did it in his fight with Madara. His mokuton can withstand TBB's and throw them back at Minato, since his Wood Golem catched TBB like a ball. BM Minato cant teleport anything in his fight with Hashirama because Hashirama can change the battlefield in moments using his mokuton. And his reaction times and speed is higher. Weakened Hashirama, weakened even more because of clones he created to aid Shinobi Alliance in battle against 10 tailes, fought equally with Edo Madara, who has better combat speed feats than Minato (already wrote about that in another topic). And Hashirama was superior to Tobirama, who was faster than BM Minato. Hashirama also can suppress Minato just like Madara suppressed Naruto using Hashirama's Wood Dragon. Kurama is weak against Mokuton. Oh, and i am also very interesting in how BM Minato is going to counter Hashirama's undetectable clones, Hashiramas Flower Tree World, Hashirama's God Gates that are fast enough to suppress Madara and Naruto. Plus his Sage Mode durability with which Madara withstood Bijuu's attacks, plus his regeneration. 

Hashirama is superior to BM Minato.


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## sabre320 (Dec 11, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> You, Minato fanboy, likes to put his feats but forget about some thing that are downplaying those feats. He teleported JTBB that was already *slowed down drastically* by 8 Tailes. Now i want you to prove BM Minato could teleport it without Killer Bee's help.
> 
> Hashirama can easily react to Bijuu Dama, since he alrady did it in his fight with Madara. His mokuton can withstand TBB's and throw them back at Minato, since his Wood Golem catched TBB like a ball. BM Minato cant teleport anything in his fight with Hashirama because Hashirama can change the battlefield in moments using his mokuton. And his reaction times and speed is higher. Weakened Hashirama, weakened even more because of clones he created to aid Shinobi Alliance in battle against 10 tailes, fought equally with Edo Madara, who has better combat speed feats than Minato (already wrote about that in another topic). And Hashirama was superior to Tobirama, who was faster than BM Minato. Hashirama also can suppress Minato just like Madara suppressed Naruto using Hashirama's Wood Dragon. Kurama is weak against Mokuton. Oh, and i am also very interesting in how BM Minato is going to counter Hashirama's undetectable clones, Hashiramas Flower Tree World, Hashirama's God Gates that are fast enough to suppress Madara and Naruto. Plus his Sage Mode durability with which Madara withstood Bijuu's attacks, plus his regeneration.
> 
> Hashirama is superior to BM Minato.



ck this is dedicated to u and ur hate for minato
Link removed


----------



## StarWanderer (Dec 11, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> ck this is dedicated to u and ur hate for minato
> Link removed



Will you respond to me, or you'll admit you lost it already?

By the way, nice song.


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## SSMG (Dec 11, 2014)

Hashirama has a nice chakra meal by eating the BM cloak with his wood dragon.


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## sabre320 (Dec 11, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Hashirama has a nice chakra meal by eating the BM cloak with his wood dragon.



Wow to claim bm minato loses to wood dragon.....well you did say ps has country level durability...


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## StarWanderer (Dec 11, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Wow to claim bm minato loses to wood dragon.....well you did say ps has country level durability...



Wood Dragon had chakra meal from BM Naruto, you know. 

Its too bad Hussain does not participate in our deate.


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## SSMG (Dec 11, 2014)

I claimed kyuubi covered PS has small country level durability.. Which it does.


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## sabre320 (Dec 11, 2014)

SSMG said:


> I claimed kyuubi covered PS has small country level durability.. Which it does.



Jesus christ kyuubi being covered by ps in no way amps ps its the same ps....same durability and its not small country level its mountain range level...


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## StarWanderer (Dec 11, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Jesus christ kyuubi being covered by ps in no way amps ps its the same ps....same durability and its not small country level its mountain range level...



PS withstood TBB from Full Kurama without even a scratch. I think its durability is higher than mountain range.


----------



## Shinobi no Kami (Dec 11, 2014)

_その力を超える忍は、以後現在まで存在しない。
To this day, there is no ninja existing who surpasses his power._

thread is done.


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## Rocky (Dec 11, 2014)

Minato doesn't exist anymore. He's dead.


----------



## Shinobi no Kami (Dec 11, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Minato doesn't exist anymore. He's dead.



the scans in the databook entry show a hashirama that existed at the same time as minato. if you want to blatantly pretend that minato isnt included, naruto and sasuke would be included in that statement, who are both stronger than minato.


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## Rocky (Dec 11, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> the scans in the databook entry show a hashirama that existed at the same time as minato.



That quote doesn't have anything to do with those pictures unless it is a direct caption.



> if you want to blatantly pretend that minato isnt included, naruto and sasuke would be included in that statement, who are both stronger than minato.



If these versions of Naruto & Sasuke are weaker than Hashirama, then they are also weaker than Edo Minato.


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## ARGUS (Dec 11, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> wood golem and wood dragon were destroyed by a simple bijudama explosion...as in canon then we have naruto spamming senpo chou oodama rasenshuriken through bm clones...while a single frs in bm was capable of capableof cutting the juubis tails which tanked bijuudama and multiple alliance attacks boosted by km at the same time


Never talked about wood golem or dragon so why are you bringin it up herre, 



> ya...but u know mokuton.. juubidara also falls before the wood.. shinsensenju is certainly not more durable then the juubi neither are his hands more durable then its tails...bsm naruto was tagging juubito he can easily keep his distance and spam spam chou oodama rasenshuriken...


Nope, Naruto keeping the distance is not helping when Chojo Kobetsu obliterates him, 
and no amounts of COFRS is even worth mentioning, when multiple PS slashes were not enough to bust SS before PS did,, despite the fact that the PS swords were coated on the TBB as well 

only TBB are worth mentioning for naruto, however with SS just slams them right back at naruto, and addded with Chojo Kobetsu, naruto dies


----------



## Trojan (Dec 11, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> _その力を超える忍は、以後現在まで存在しない。
> To this day, there is no ninja existing who surpasses his power._
> 
> thread is done.





It's about his healing power. Do not remove the words out of context. lol
they even titled that section "healing ability"  



> Hi takl. (=
> 
> Can you please help me with 1 sentence?
> 
> ...



takl


> その力を超える忍は、以後現在まで存在しない。
> To this day, there's been no shinobi surpassed his (recuperative) power.





Turrin said:


> By the by about this little Hashirama debate, I side with Hussain that the statement is about Hashirama's vitality and healing ability. Yes it says 力 which can mean "power", however in this context I believe it refers to "ability". The reason being is the way the sentence is structured with その before 力, その, basically means "that" as in what was previously being referred to. The sentence right before this one "that" was defined as Hashirama's vitality and healing ability. So when the next sentence says その力, I believe it basically means "that ability". So I'd say that the sentence is stating that no one has surpassed Hashirama's cell's vitality/healing properties, which makes a-lot more sense since even by EOS the characters are still relying on that ability of Hashirama's cells.





Seelentau said:


> It actually says その力 _sono chikara_, meaning _this power_, so it's directly talking about his healing prowess.



Not to mention it's foolish to even think that it means power when Hashirama himself stated flat out that Obito is stronger than him. And Kakashi stated
that Naruto is stronger than him, and so did Zetsu...etc 

Hashirama at that point was not even top 10 characters.


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## Trojan (Dec 11, 2014)

> [=StarWanderer;52438389]Yes, it is. It withstood multiple TBB's enchanced with PS blade easily and suppressed Kurama. So yeah - it is stronger. Hashirama suppressed all nine Bijuu with his mokuton. And Madara easily suppressed Kurama's half when he used his Mokuton Dragon. Jinchuuriki are weak against Mokuton, except 10 Tails.


Not sure if I can take you seriously honestly.  
because you're either trolling, or obviously you don't know anything about the manga. Because no sane
person would say Hashi's Buddha is stronger than the Juubi's TBB. lol


> Minato cant teleport around because Hashirama can change the battlefield with his mokuton easily. And thats also the reason why he cant teleport hashirama's attacks.


lol, except Minato have Marking all over the world, and they never vanish. Either way, His wood is irrelevant as even if he changed their location, they are still useable. lol 



> Hashirama is much faster in terms of combat speed. Edo Madara, who is weaker and slower than EMS Madara, dodged Gaara's sand. The same sand that reacted to V2 Armor Raikage and Amaterasu. And weakened Hashirama fought with that Madara equally, plus managed to immobilise him.


Pffff, base Minato left Hashirama in the dust for God's sake. Have you even read the manga? 
If not, go and read the chapters when the Hokages arrived. lol 


> BM Minato's Kurama state cant keep up always, since Kurama needs to restore his chakra. And Kurama can be easily suppressed anyway.


Hashi does not have any superior chakra to Kurama.
Yeah, he can suppress it. However, Hashirama can never even touch Minato because of the massive gap in speed. 


> TBBs are non-factor. Hashirama's Mokuton is strong enough to withstand that + hashirama has reaction speed to dodge TBB easily.


Nonsense. Give me one time where he reacted to a teleported TBB. lol
or was it even even stated that his reaction is faster than base Minato let alone BM. lol 


> Also, hashirama can fight for the whole day non-stop, plus he has regeneration and durability enough to withstand Bijuu's atacks (remember what Madara did after he got Hashirama's Sage Mode).


Yeah, Madara who lost his arm from tails attack, and needed Zetsu arm to replace it?  


> Even Tobirama is faster than BM Minato.


Wow, this is "less than smart". 


> He put a teleportation formula on Juubito and taged him with several explosives when they had confrontation. And what BM Minato did? Got himself easily beaten and lost his arm? Tobirama is faster in terms of combat speed. And Hashirama as the most powerfull shinobi of his time, plus he has experience with Hiraishin, since Tobirama, his brother, created it.


I'm sorry but obviously you're lacking way too much in term of reading comprehension that even Tobiramma himself does not believe in this nonsense.  






> A handsome man shining with natural-borne talent, like a blinding glint (purple lightning), time and space itself seem to stand still—.
> Minato handles to perfection the “Hiraishin no jutsu” space-time ninjutsu that was invented by Nidaime Hokage Senju Tobirama, and learnt from Master Jiraiya the pride of being a ninja.
> His achievements began 27 years ago with the “Jinchuuriki kidnapping prevention” in Kirigakure; during the 3rd Great Ninja War, he led inferior Konoha camps to victory for times too numerous to mention.
> Praised among all ninja as the greatest in god-like speed, the honour of that valour fascinates even the elites of other villages.






> When two people who can use Hiraishin are gathered together it's an honor, and they are instantly able to use dreamlike coordination. Tobirama the inventor of space-time ninjutsu and Yondaime Hokage the man who inherited it and elevated it, make a fearsome combination. Receiving an ally's attack, two hirashin users activate the jutsu simultaneously, the damage is substituted with the target, the jutsu is a godsend to have when in major danger. The cordination between companions gives birth to a superb attack, reciprocal trust and feelings, make this high class coordination feasible. If the enemy tries to run away they will not be able to rise up(? not sure about this).





> by viatoretvenus
> 
> 
> p. 270
> ...



Please, you need to reread the manga because you obviously do not get it. 
Tobirama is not even in the same level as base Minato, let alone BM. lol 


> Hashirama stomps. BM Minato cant beat him.


Hashirama won't be able to even touch him. lol
the only people who were shown to be able to do so are those Juubi's host level.

but anyway, forgot about it. You think Hashi's Buddha is stronger than the Juubi because he dealt with Kurama who even stated that he has no chance against the Juubi. You think Tobirama is faster than BM Minato when he admitted that he's inferior to base Minato! 

Well, I really suggest you read manga Naruto, instead of Raruto. 
because although the names are similar, and even the characters, but they are really different. (=


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## StarWanderer (Dec 12, 2014)

> Not sure if I can take you seriously honestly.
> because you're either trolling, or obviously you don't know anything about the manga. Because no sane
> person would say Hashi's Buddha is stronger than the Juubi's TBB. lol



Oh, i made a mistake. It happens. But Minato never fought on par with Juubi. He was easily beaten by Juubito and teleported Juubi's TBB that was already slowed down by 8 Tails.



> lol, except Minato have Marking all over the world, and they never vanish. Either way, His wood is irrelevant as even if he changed their location, they are still useable. lol



Yeah, especially when they are underground, or among Hashirama's mokuton traps. And especially when Hashirama can use Flower Tree World to counter Hiraishin. And his mokuton clones.



> Pffff, base Minato left Hashirama in the dust for God's sake. Have you even read the manga?
> If not, go and read the chapters when the Hokages arrived. lol



Have *YOU* read the manga?  Because it seems you dont. And it seems you didnt understand what i mean. The fact Minato came to battlefield faster than the others can prove only that he is faster in terms of travel speed. And, although it was a part of their plan, it seems he is truly the fastest kage in terms of travel speed, since he can teleport. And he does it better than enyone, even Tobirama. But what about his *combat speed*? he doesnt have combat speed to compete with Hashirama.



> Hashi does not have any superior chakra to Kurama.
> Yeah, he can suppress it. However, Hashirama can never even touch Minato because of the massive gap in speed.



Massive gap? LOL.

Edo Madara reacted to Raikage and blocked his punch. Edo Madara dodged sand that easily reacted to V2 Raikage. Edo Madara's mokuton clones, that are much weaker and slower than the original, reacted to Raikage. While being blind, Madara speedblitzed SM Naruto and easily defeated Sasuke. 

And the Raikage that confronted Madara was prime Raikage, with tailed beast chakra, with Body Flicker etc. It is clear that he became much better since the time when he fought Minato.

Now i want you to show me Minato's combat speed feats that are superior to Hashirama's feat of fighting on par with Edo Madara.

And hashirama has enough chakra to beat Minato anyway, plus, he doesnt need to re-charge, like Kurama.



> Nonsense. Give me one time where he reacted to a teleported TBB. lol
> or was it even even stated that his reaction is faster than base Minato let alone BM. lol



Its a big quastion if Minato can teleport TBB in his fight with Hashirama. 

And realy, Tobirama, who was inferior to Hashirama, was faster than BM Minato. Plus, hashirama has Sage Mode.



> Yeah, Madara who lost his arm from tails attack, and needed Zetsu arm to replace it?



Madara lost his arm in a fight with Bijuu's? I dont remember such a thing. I remember ressurrected Madara, with Hashirama's Sage Mode, easily withstanding Bijuu's attacks.



> I'm sorry but obviously you're lacking way too much in term of reading comprehension that even Tobiramma himself does not believe in this nonsense.



LOL, you logic makes me laugh. First of all, Tobirama tolled ONLY about the fact that his Hiraishin is slower than Minato's. And in your scans, he is talking about Hiraishin, not his speed.

But how can we see that Tobirama is faster than BM Minato? Its easy. Tobirama put a FTG formula on Juubito and taged him with explosives while BM Minato did nothing and lost his arm. Here you go - that is their difference in combat speed.



> Please, you need to reread the manga because you obviously do not get it.
> Tobirama is not even in the same level as base Minato, let alone BM. lol



Again, your logic makes me laugh. What did you prove, that his Hiraishin is the best? I knew it already. Praised for his god-like speed? Travel speed, maybe? And does praise prove he was overall the fastest shinobi? Because feats prove otherwise.



> but anyway, forgot about it. You think Hashi's Buddha is stronger than the Juubi because he dealt with Kurama who even stated that he has no chance against the Juubi.



I made a mistake and i admit it. You, on the other hand, cant prove anything up to this moment. 

Hashirama beats BM Minato.



> Not to mention it's foolish to even think that it means power when Hashirama himself stated flat out that Obito is stronger than him. And Kakashi stated
> that Naruto is stronger than him, and so did Zetsu...etc
> 
> Hashirama at that point was not even top 10 characters.



Obito wasnt realy a shinobi at that point. I think that statement is about shinobi, not some god-like characters. And realy, BM naruto is stronger than Hashirama? Want you to bring here some scans.

Overall, i hope you can keep dancing.


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## sabre320 (Dec 12, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> _その力を超える忍は、以後現在まで存在しない。
> To this day, there is no ninja existing who surpasses his power._
> 
> thread is done.



So let me get this straight you believe hashirama is stronger then juubito juubidara rikudo naruto and sasuke ,rikudo kakashi and 8th gate gai....seems legitck


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## sabre320 (Dec 12, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> Never talked about wood golem or dragon so why are you bringin it up herre,
> 
> 
> Nope, Naruto keeping the distance is not helping when Chojo Kobetsu obliterates him,
> ...



A single frs weilded by bm naruto was capable of cutting the juubis tails and juubis durability is far above the buudhas cofrs weilded by bsm clones will be more then worth mentioning...shinsensenju needs to close the distance to use chojo kobetsu...bsm naruto is perfectly capable of keeping distance he was in the same speed class as juubito...why are u acting like the buudha is some damn speed demon..it was madaras idiocy to charge into shinsensenju head on 

the arena hashirama needs to close the distance to use chojo kobetsu he covered the distance at the same speed as kyuubisussano do u think bsm naruto using shunshin is slower then dat???


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## sabre320 (Dec 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Not sure if I can take you seriously honestly.
> because you're either trolling, or obviously you don't know anything about the manga. Because no sane
> person would say Hashi's Buddha is stronger than the Juubi's TBB. lol
> 
> ...



Dude thinks base hashirama is faster then bm minato bless him.. he says raikage did not possess shunshin when he fought minato iv given up reasoning with him u can try brave soul


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## ARGUS (Dec 12, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> A single frs weilded by bm naruto was capable of cutting the juubis tails and juubis durability is far above the buudhas cofrs weilded by bsm clones will be more then worth mentioning...


The juubis tails were also repelled by hiashis rotation, and vacuum palm, 
does that mean that juubi is actually damaged by that?, no it doesnt, 
SS tanked multiple mountain slicing PS slashes, which poop on anything FRS or COFRS can do, meaning that they are garbage to SS here, 


> shinsensenju needs to close the distance to use chojo kobetsu...bsm naruto is perfectly capable of keeping distance he was in the same speed class as juubito...why are u acting like the buudha is some damn speed demon..it was madaras idiocy to charge into shinsensenju head on
> 
> Raruto hashirama needs to close the distance to use chojo kobetsu he covered the distance at the same speed as kyuubisussano do u think bsm naruto using shunshin is slower then dat???


dooesnt matter, when naruto stiill has no way of damaging it bar TBB which get slammed right back at his face
and when he can still get immobilised by myojinmon, to a point where reverting to his human state (which leaves him defenseless anyway) wont suffice either,  
and narutos kurama avatar isnt some speed demon either, so quit overrating it, 
naruto has no counters to SS at all, and gets overwhelmed by it completley


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## StarWanderer (Dec 12, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Dude thinks base hashirama is faster then bm minato bless him.. he says raikage did not possess shunshin when he fought minato iv given up reasoning with him u can try brave soul



Yeah, he didnt have Body Flicker. Because he never used it when he was young. And there was no statement he could use it when he was young. But if there is something like that, i'll wait for you to bring it here.

Yeah, i think Hashirama is better in combat speed. And i can explain, why. But you are just wanking around. Thats all you do.


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## sabre320 (Dec 12, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> The juubis tails were also repelled by hiashis rotation, and vacuum palm,
> does that mean that juubi is actually damaged by that?, no it doesnt,
> SS tanked multiple mountain slicing PS slashes, which poop on anything FRS or COFRS can do, meaning that they are garbage to SS here,
> 
> ...



No he wasnt damaged by them and neither were his tails though that is a brilliant feat for km hiashi but a bm frs cut through 2 of 2 tails that is getting hurt don't dodge around the issue...the juubis durability is far above shinsensenjus considering those tails survived all of the alliances km amped attacks combined with bees bijudama as well as his own juubidama no problem that was a bm frs this is a senpo cho oodama frs weilded by bsm clones who will spam it if it cut the juubis tails it will cut the shinsensenjus arms much easier

Funny thing naruto dosent need to be in bm avatar to produce either bijudama or cofrs and his shunshin and speed is morethen enough to keep distance and a senpo super bijudama exploding in the general vicinity of shinsensenju  will deal massive damage it does not need to be aimed directly at it.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 12, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> No he wasnt damaged by them and neither were his tails though that is a brilliant feat for km hiashi but a bm frs cut through 2 of 2 tails that is getting hurt don't dodge around the issue...the juubis durability is far above shinsensenjus considering those tails survived all of the alliances km amped attacks combined with bees bijudama as well as his own juubidama no problem that was a bm frs this is a senpo cho oodama frs weilded by bsm clones who will spam it if it cut the juubis tails it will cut the shinsensenjus arms much easier
> 
> Funny thing naruto dosent need to be in bm avatar to produce either bijudama or cofrs and his shunshin and speed is morethen enough to keep distance and a senpo super bijudama exploding in the general vicinity of shinsensenju  will deal massive damage it does not need to be aimed directly at it.



Anything BM Naruto, or BM Minato has Hashirama can through back at them, except super Bijuu Damas. But they are countered before they are made. Mokuton suppression and thats all. 

Kurama Avatar will be a stupid move for Minato, since Hashirama can do to him the same thing Madara did to Naruto's Kurama Avatar using  Hashirama's Wood Dragon.


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