# Yakushi Kabuto vs Lord Voldemort



## Orochibuto (May 22, 2012)

I have seen lots of Oro vs Voldy, but at least not in NF from Kabuto and well both are snakes, Kabuto being Oro V2.

So its snake vs snake, who wins?

Knowledgement: Full
State: At full power
Distance: 10 meters
Location: Kabuto vs Brochihas cave
Restrictions: None
Speed: Equal


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## Strange of Eternity (May 22, 2012)

Kabuto speedblitzes the living shit out of Tom Marvolo Riddle, speedequalize, and we may have a fight.


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## Orochibuto (May 22, 2012)

Speed is equalized now.


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## feebas_factor (May 23, 2012)

Speed equalized, how exactly does Kabuto dodge Avada Kedavra? 
That shit's a OHKO for anything with a soul, and I can't think of any particular defences Kabuto could use to stop it.


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## Strange of Eternity (May 23, 2012)

Avada Kedrava FTW.


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## dream (May 23, 2012)

> Speed equalized, how exactly does Kabuto dodge Avada Kedavra?



By aim dodging?   It's been a while since I read the books but nothing states that an AK has a truly impressive speed.  If I remember correctly Dumbledore blocked an AK, that was heading towards Harry, with a statue that he moved in-between the AK and Harry after the spell was cast.  



> That shit's a OHKO for anything with a soul, and I can't think of any particular defences Kabuto could use to stop it.



Any decently solid physical object can block it.  Heck, I can see a summoned snake blocking it.


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## Palpatine (May 23, 2012)

I assume edos are completely immune to AK. 

As long as Kabuto kept himself surrounded, he could spam Itachi's sharingan to trap Voldy in a genjutsu.


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## Blue (May 23, 2012)

Sirius Black and the rest of them were dodging Avada Kedavras in book 3. If I recall correctly Sirius dodged one right into the plot toilet that did him in.


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## Orxon (May 23, 2012)

Ginny Weasley dodged an AK from Bellatrix.


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## feebas_factor (May 23, 2012)

Fair enough. I just thought 10 meters was extremely close for speed-equalized with a OHKO spell... 

But I see there's enough precedent for dodging AK that Kabuto has at least a decent chance of avoiding it long enough to set something up.


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## Gomu (May 23, 2012)

How powerful is the HPverse?


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## Palpatine (May 23, 2012)

^ In the grand scheme of things, not very strong.

The real world could potentially wipe them out without much trouble.


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## Gomu (May 23, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> ^ In the grand scheme of things, not very strong.
> 
> The real world could potentially wipe them out without much trouble.



Then Kabuto shouldn't have much problem. Summon Manda and finish it quickly.


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## Orochibuto (May 23, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> ^ In the grand scheme of things, not very strong.
> 
> The real world could potentially wipe them out without much trouble.



Real world? Arent HP wizards always talking about the muggle world like if it was completely inferior to them?


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## Gomu (May 23, 2012)

That's because HP's magical world doesn't have guns. They say muggles are inferior because their normal. But give me a gun... I'll show them my aim.


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## Palpatine (May 23, 2012)

Guns, tanks, missiles, drones, nukes > wands


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## Gomu (May 23, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Guns, tanks, missiles, drones, nukes > wands



The occasional jets work wonders too. Bombs away...


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## Tengu (May 23, 2012)

Kabuto rapes, he kills Voldemort with his cave manipulating jutsu.


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## RWB (May 23, 2012)

According to Rowling, Muggle with loaded Shotgun>Wizard with wand in hand(no preparation for being hit).

So no, they aren't that strong. Voldemort does have his horcruxes, though.


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## Deleted member 45015 (May 23, 2012)

Funny thing about Avada Kedavra is that it was stated _there's no blocking it._ 

It can be dodged or if the user has terrible aim it can be made to miss...it can't do much to inanimate objects either given Dumbledore countered it with a statue. Long story short, you can't block it with a counter-curse or charm, but you can avoid it several ways. 

Kabuto with full knowledge could call upon _Edo Tensei_ and murk Voldemort with his 30+ zombies, buying time for himself to switch in to Sage Mode. After that he's got the upper hand again. Though Voldemort will undoubtedly be aware of this (due to Full Knowledge being ON) and will try to counteract this.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 23, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> ^ In the grand scheme of things, not very strong.
> 
> The real world could potentially wipe them out without much trouble.



Technology doesn't work around strong magical areas such as Hogwarts, and they can just get rid of them via muggle-repelling charms, so the real world can't take them, but other verses it's level can.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 23, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> I assume edos are completely immune to AK.
> 
> As long as Kabuto kept himself surrounded, he could spam Itachi's sharingan to trap Voldy in a genjutsu.



Genjutsu won't work on voldy, as memory charms don't work on him and they can take out entire beaches full of muggles at once.


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## Nighty the Mighty (May 23, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Genjutsu won't work on voldy, as memory charms don't work on him and they can take out entire beaches full of muggles at once.



Good to know a memory charm works exactly the same way as genjutsu does.


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## Chuck (May 23, 2012)

ends in a draw, Kabuto wont be able to finish of he who must not be named because of his damn whorecruxes


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## egressmadara (May 23, 2012)

Kabuto has too much versatility and of course overpowered. He'll take this quite handily.


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## I3igAl (May 23, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Genjutsu won't work on voldy, as memory charms don't work on him and they can take out entire beaches full of muggles at once.



His strange vibration waves to take away the senses would however. With speed equal Voldemort has a chance namely Avada Kedavra. He could also pull some mindcontrol etc. spells out off his ass to bring Kabuto down.
But seriously even with equal speed Kabuto is still *much more agile and a much more skilled fighter* than anyone in Harry Potter. Dodging Avada Kedavra should be quite easy, since many characters, without tumbling skills from a world populated by superhuman ninjas. 
And Parsel won't help him much if Manda V2 gets dropped on him. 
Kabuto also has all the powers of the Sound 5 , including the stregth to rip Voldi into little shreds and he can travel through the ground. He could just approach him from below and kill him.


*Also about Avada Kedavra killing everything:* It has been quite some time since I read the books, but didn't Hagrid survive one of those due to his giant blood? Also weren't giants hyped to be powerful enough to shrug off such spells? It soul ripping everything kinda seems wrong and NLFish.


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## Estrecca (May 23, 2012)

RWB said:


> According to Rowling, Muggle with loaded Shotgun>Wizard with wand in hand(no preparation for being hit).



Citation, please.

I have been running into this claim for years now and despite asking for the source (as in the interview) _dozens of times_ no one has answered my request. And I haven't found it anywhere despite _extensive_ searching and there being pages devoted to collecting the sayings of Rowling.


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## Gomu (May 23, 2012)

Estrecca said:


> Citation, please.
> 
> I have been running into this claim for years now and despite asking for the source (as in the interview) _dozens of times_ no one has answered my request. And I haven't found it anywhere despite _extensive_ searching and there being pages devoted to collecting the sayings of Rowling.



So all I need is a magic gun to kill all the Wizards. Unlimited bullets makes it fun. 

Also it should be kinda obvious dude. This is a world full of human level characters. They are only peak human at the most, super human if you're god tier voldermont.


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## Estrecca (May 23, 2012)

Gomu said:


> So all I need is a magic gun to kill all the Wizards. Unlimited bullets makes it fun.



You might also need ways to get through their assorted illusions and large scale mind-affecting magic. 



> Also it should be kinda obvious dude. This is a world full of human level characters. They are only peak human at the most, super human if you're god tier voldermont.



I don't care about "obvious". I don't even particularly care about the statement on its own or its accuracy.

What I care about is the ceaseless parroting of alleged Word of God that (I am convinced) doesn't exist.


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## Gomu (May 23, 2012)

Estrecca said:


> You might also need ways to get through their assorted illusions and large scale mind-affecting magic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're forgetting that most of their higher end spells need to be said by incantations. Bullets move at Mach 1 speeds usually. Your speech versus my bullet, who you think wins? And if you get the incantation wrong, the spell back fires. Again, who wins?


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## Palpatine (May 23, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Technology doesn't work around strong magical areas such as Hogwarts, and they can just get rid of them via muggle-repelling charms, so the real world can't take them, but other verses it's level can.



They can cancel out nuclear blasts with simple charms?


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## Blue (May 23, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> They can cancel out nuclear blasts with simple charms?
> 
> Maybe I haven't given this verse enough credit.



Well cancelling a W87 variable-yield miniaturized thermonuclear warhead would be fairly easy if you can screw up electronics to the slightest degree, the things are wired up like an iphone and will never ever explode without a bazillion different command codes being delivered correctly.

Cancelling a gun-type fission bomb (and/or attached fusion warhead) would be a lot harder, I'd call bullshit on that.

Note that everyone completely bought the story that Neville's supposedly badass wizard parents were killed by a gas line exploding.


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## Blue (May 23, 2012)

Also "Muggle with a Shotgun" should be a book/movie.


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## hammer (May 23, 2012)




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## Orochibuto (May 24, 2012)

What about using edo tenseis as shield for AK?


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## feebas_factor (May 24, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> What about using edo tenseis as shield for AK?



Depends if its soul-ripping capabilities are all they're cracked up to be.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 24, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> They can cancel out nuclear blasts with simple charms?



They can't cancel out the blast, but they can stop it from exploding in the first place. As soon as it goes within the grounds of Hogwarts or some other magical area it would stop working and fall to the ground. Also, places can be made unplottable, which would make it impossible for the nuke's electronic map to pinpoint the target. And if a muggle controls the nuke by hand they'll simply get caught up in muggle-repelling charms and turn the nuke around to somewhere else.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 24, 2012)

I3igAl said:


> *Also about Avada Kedavra killing everything:* It has been quite some time since I read the books, but didn't Hagrid survive one of those due to his giant blood? Also weren't giants hyped to be powerful enough to shrug off such spells? It soul ripping everything kinda seems wrong and NLFish.



Hagrid survived other spells because of that, but AK can kill giants.


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## Palpatine (May 24, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> What about using edo tenseis as shield for AK?



I suggested this earlier. He could surround himself with edos while he enters sage mode. 

Of course, that's if edo Itachi and Nagato can't handle Voldemort on their own.


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## Estrecca (May 24, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Note that everyone completely bought the story that Neville's supposedly badass wizard parents were killed by a gas line exploding.



When was this noted? I don't remember anything like this being said and sounds a bit odd, seeing that Neville mostly interacted with strictly wizarding folks.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 24, 2012)

Estrecca said:


> When was this noted? I don't remember anything like this being said and sounds a bit odd, seeing that Neville mostly interacted with strictly wizarding folks.



I'm pretty sure neville's parents never died, but just got turned into vegetables by the Cruciatus Curse.


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## Estrecca (May 24, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> I'm pretty sure neville's parents never died, but just got turned into vegetables by the Cruciatus Curse.



Sure. But I was thinking that maybe they regarded the current state of Neville's fathers as a source of shame or something and had covered up their permanent stay in St. Mungo's with that story of the gas explosion.

It's just that this is the first I hear of a gas explosion regarding Neville's parents, at all.


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## RWB (May 24, 2012)

The gas explosion was the cover-up for Peter Pettigrew blowing up an entire street and killing 12 muggles.

Despite all the down-talking Pettigrew gets, he's easily among the most competent villains in the series, and has the biggest feat of outright destruction. On top of that, he has a good dueling record. 

Oh, and he pulls non-verbal spells at several points, using another wizard's wand with little to no problem(Voldemort's) while others are shown to be bad at that...

The assumption McGonagall did about him not holding a candle to Black can be written of as bias. If the other Marauders were naturally talented, he was a hard worker with a LOT of power.


As for said feat:
_*
In 1981, he used an extremely powerful Blasting Curse which blew up a street and put a 40 foot crater in the ground, killing twelve Muggles simultaneously. The explosion had so much power that all the sewers hundreds of feet deep were completely destroyed. *_


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## Gunners (May 24, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Well cancelling a W87 variable-yield miniaturized thermonuclear warhead would be fairly easy if you can screw up electronics to the slightest degree, the things are wired up like an iphone and will never ever explode without a bazillion different command codes being delivered correctly.
> 
> Cancelling a gun-type fission bomb (and/or attached fusion warhead) would be a lot harder, I'd call bullshit on that.
> 
> Note that everyone completely bought the story that Neville's supposedly badass wizard parents were killed by a gas line exploding.


Oh yeah, people bought the story that they were killed in a gas line explosion despite the fact death eaters torturing them to the point of insanity is common knowledge alongside them being permanent members of St Mungo's hospital.



Estrecca said:


> When was this noted? I don't remember anything like this being said and sounds a bit odd, seeing that Neville mostly interacted with strictly wizarding folks.


Because it never happened.


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## Blue (May 24, 2012)

Well shit.

Oh yeah, it was Pettigrew who supposedly died, right?


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## Gunners (May 24, 2012)

Yes, Wizards believed Sirius killed him, Muggles were mind wiped and told that there was a faulty gas line.


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## RWB (May 24, 2012)

I wonder how strong that blasting curse Pettigrew used had to be to cause that much damage...


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 24, 2012)

RWB said:


> The assumption McGonagall did about him not holding a candle to Black can be written of as bias. If the other Marauders were naturally talented, he was a hard worker with a LOT of power.



If peter was more powerful than black, why didn't he just duel him rather than using that very spell as a diversion to escape?


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## Estrecca (May 24, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> If peter was more powerful than black, why didn't he just duel him rather than using that very spell as a diversion to escape?



Well, Pettigrew would have had to deal with 1) all of wizarding Britain tracking his ass as murderer of Sirius Black and 2) all the Death Eaters still at large tracking his ass as the mole whose intelligence got Voldemort "killed".

Not that I think that Peter is better than Sirius, Remus or James, but there are possible explanations.

As for the explosion...



> ?You don?t know what you?re talking about, Hagrid,? said Fudge sharply. ?Nobody but trained Hit Wizards from the Magical Law Enforcement Squad would have stood a chance against Black once he was cornered. I was Junior Minister in the Department of Magical Catastrophes at the time, and I was one of the first on the scene after Black murdered all those people. I?I will never forget it. I still dream about it sometimes. A crater in the middle of the street, so deep it had cracked the sewer below. Bodies everywhere. Muggles screaming. And Black standing there laughing, with what was left of Pettigrew in front of him? a heap of bloodstained robes and a few?a few fragments??
> [...]
> ?Just before he transformed,? said Black. ?When I cornered him, he yelled for the whole street to hear that I?d betrayed Lily and James. Then, before I could curse him, he blew apart the street with the wand behind his back, killed everyone within twenty feet of himself?and sped down into the sewer with the other rats??
> ?Didn?t you ever hear, Ron?? said Lupin. ?The biggest bit of Peter they found was his finger.?



That's all we get from Prisoner of Azbakan, from Fudge's and Sirius' accounts of the event and its aftermaths.


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## Krypton (May 24, 2012)

I seriously can't believe people on this board are that stupid to side with Voldemort winning this fight.

I mean how dumb or bias you have to be to argue in Voldemort's favor.


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## Victoria Regia (May 24, 2012)

Voldemort has nice spells but in the end he's just a human IIRC.

IIRC Voldemort did have some kind of country wide mindrape/reality warping though.


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## Narcissus (May 24, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Sirius Black and the rest of them were dodging Avada Kedavras in book 3. If I recall correctly Sirius dodged one right into the plot toilet that did him in.


Avada Kedavra did not make a full appearance until the 4th book, Goblet of  Fire, so no one dodged any in book 3. And Sirius was hit with an unnamed curse in book 5 that stunned him, causing him to fall through the veil.


Orxon said:


> Ginny Weasley dodged an AK from Bellatrix.


No she didn't. Bellatrix missed her with the curse.


RWB said:


> Voldemort does have his horcruxes, though.


The horcruxes aren't going to help in an OBD-style match. they'll allow Voldemort's soul to survive, but he won't be able to do anything without a body.


Krypton said:


> I seriously can't believe people on this board are that stupid to side with Voldemort winning this fight.
> 
> I mean how dumb or bias you have to be to argue in Voldemort's favor.


Comments like these are not arguments and they provide nothing to the discussion.


Victoria Regia said:


> Voldemort has nice spells but in the end he's just a human IIRC.


Being a human doesn't really contribute to why he'd lose. I can think of plenty of human characters who'd stomp all over Kabuto. 


> IIRC Voldemort did have some kind of country wide mindrape/reality warping though.


You'll have to provide a citation for me on that one... I can't recall it.


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## Victoria Regia (May 24, 2012)

Voldemort only has hypersonic speed, but he doesn't have durability or reaction.

IIRC Voldy mindraped entire countries of muggles to not know about him, and forgot everything, then he has dementors which can soulfuck countries/cities.


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## Estrecca (May 24, 2012)

Victoria Regia said:


> IIRC Voldemort did have some kind of country wide mindrape/reality warping though.



I am approximately 101% sure that this is not the case.

Closest thing to a country-wide effect from the Death Eaters I can recall is the Taboo Curse. And that one only revealed the location of people who uttered Voldemort's name and disabled some defensive enchantments.

Which is still one hell of a neat thing, but nothing like what you describe.


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## Victoria Regia (May 24, 2012)

he mindraped the entire society of wizards to his side.


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## Narcissus (May 24, 2012)

Victoria Regia said:


> he mindraped the entire society of wizards to his side.


The only thing I can think of that comes close to this is the use of the Imperius curse, which is not the same thing you're claiming...

Can you name the book and/or chapter you're getting this from?


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## Victoria Regia (May 24, 2012)

What else did he do? He's going to mindrape Kabuto to a vegetable.


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## Orochibuto (May 26, 2012)

In dodging AK I think SM sensing is going to help a lot too, remember it allowed Kabuto to dodge Amaterasu arrows which were stated to be very fast.


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## TheSweetFleshofDeath (May 26, 2012)

Can't voldermort just use time-magic, and kill Kabuto when he was a child?


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 26, 2012)

Not without a specific item. A specific item moreover that he was never shown to use.


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## TheSweetFleshofDeath (May 26, 2012)

Well, my point is that if speed is equalized Voldermort has far more versatility than Kabuto.  With Magic he can produce almost any effect, and with speed equalized nothing Kabuto has is going to touch Voldermort.  In a battle of utility and versatility Kabuto wins.


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## Stermor (May 29, 2012)

i would say avada kedavra would be a perfect counter to edo's just release the soul and the body crumbles.... 

also manda would be perfect target to die by avada kedravra.. 

all in all kabuto kills mister v easy enough.. kabuto is able to travel underground... and he is a ninja, voldemort dies without even noticing(or expecting) the blow..


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## Krypton (May 29, 2012)

Why are people still arguing in Voldy's favor. Any way you cut, he gets rape, simple as that.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 29, 2012)

Krypton said:


> Why are people still arguing in Voldy's favor. Any way you cut, he gets rape, simple as that.



How exactly? With speed equalized, he should take this via immense haxx. 
I don't believe anyone has brought up the BFR argument yet. Voldy teleports next to kabuto, teleports kabuto to Antarctica, then teleports back again.


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## Krypton (May 29, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> How exactly? With speed equalized, he should take this via immense haxx.
> I don't believe anyone has brought up the BFR argument yet. Voldy teleports next to kabuto, teleports kabuto to Antarctica, then teleports back again.



It's not like Kabuto reacted to Itachi, it's not like Kabuto to just use one of his snake clones, it's not like Kabuto has a giant ass snake to help him. 

Then let's remember all of his jutsus to rely on.

All that's equalize is movement speed, not reaction speed. At best Voldy's barely peek human. Unless we're claiming that Voldy are Harry are beyond peak human.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 29, 2012)

Krypton said:


> It's not like Kabuto reacted to Itachi, it's not like Kabuto to just use one of his snake clones, it's not like Kabuto has a giant ass snake to help him.
> 
> Then let's remember all of his jutsus to rely on.
> 
> All that's equalize is movement speed, not reaction speed. At best Voldy's barely peek human. Unless we're claiming that Voldy are Harry are beyond peak human.



Equalising speed equalizes all definitions of speed. So speed is irrelevant here.


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## I3igAl (May 29, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Equalising speed equalizes all definitions of speed. So speed is irrelevant here.



Still he'd lack the skill to pull of some bfr trick. He is still up against someone with superhuman kung fu skills and strength.
Even with speed equal, when Voldemort tries to touch him for apparition all Kabuto has to do is ram his ellbow to his face and Voldemorts neck breaks.

And how is he going to do anyything, when Kabuto can just activate this to render him nearly helpless. He wouldn't be really able to put up a fight at all even with speed equal.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 30, 2012)

I3igAl said:


> Still he'd lack the skill to pull of some bfr trick. He is still up against someone with superhuman kung fu skills and strength.
> Even with speed equal, when Voldemort tries to touch him for apparition all Kabuto has to do is ram his ellbow to his face and Voldemorts neck breaks.
> 
> And how is he going to do anyything, when Kabuto can just activate this to render him nearly helpless. He wouldn't be really able to put up a fight at all even with speed equal.



Good point there. I can't see how voldy could counter that.


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## Distracted (May 30, 2012)

with speed equal it means that Voldy isn't going to be blitzing Kabuto the way some people seem to be imagining either.  If Harry can dodge a curse by Voldemort by jumping behind a grave stone I imagine that Kabuto is going to have zero qualms going underground or dodging Voldemorts attacks just using his superior physical abilities.

This also ignores Kabuto's recent suiton ability, his genjutsu abilities, his jumping out of his body and attacking with a snake ability, his doton abilities.

Not to mention Kabuto could just split into a bunch of different snakes, make it impossible for Voldemort to locate and kill him, then activate sage mode and now have prediction ability which gives him the reaction advantage again.

I literally see no way for Voldemort to win here.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 30, 2012)

Distracted said:


> with speed equal it means that Voldy isn't going to be blitzing Kabuto the way some people seem to be imagining either.  If Harry can dodge a curse by Voldemort by jumping behind a grave stone I imagine that Kabuto is going to have zero qualms going underground or dodging Voldemorts attacks just using his superior physical abilities.



AK is rather faster than the cruciatus curse. I doubt harry could dodge that, or he would have doe when voldy aimed them at him in the order of the pheonix.


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## feebas_factor (May 30, 2012)

Distracted said:


> with speed equal it means that Voldy isn't going to be blitzing Kabuto the way some people seem to be imagining either.  If Harry can dodge a curse by Voldemort by jumping behind a grave stone I imagine that Kabuto is going to have zero qualms going underground or dodging Voldemorts attacks just using his superior physical abilities.
> 
> *This also ignores Kabuto's recent suiton ability, his genjutsu abilities, his jumping out of his body and attacking with a snake ability, his doton abilities.*



Well... Some of these may or may not be useful. For example I honestly I don't see oral rebirth helping Kabuto at all; Avada Kedavra supposedly rips the soul from the body, so if it hits him he'll just be straight-up soul-ripped before he can regenerate. 

Voldy has spells to control water too IIRC, and I dunno how well genjutsu would work on him. Doton should be useful though, as I'm fairly sure most spells won't pass through the ground.



Distracted said:


> Not to mention Kabuto could just split into a bunch of different snakes, make it impossible for Voldemort to locate and kill him, then activate sage mode and now have prediction ability which gives him the reaction advantage again.
> 
> I literally see no way for Voldemort to win here.



Hitting Kabuto with an Avada Kedavra would do it, I imagine. 

But his chances of landing it are slim at best. Kabuto's got a ton of options and you make a good point that speed-equalized should equally mean he has plenty of options for dodging AK as well.


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## Nighty the Mighty (May 30, 2012)

Genjutsu should work as well as is would normally. Voldemort has shown no resistance to Illusions of any kind AFAIK. I don't know why people were arguing that having resistance to memory charms somehow equates to genjutsu invulnerability.


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## Gunners (May 30, 2012)

Fight is Voldemorts to lose, teleport to a safe location, cast the necessary protective charms. Go invinsible, teleport behind Kabuto and cast the imperius curse on him, tranfigure him into a rubber duck, killing curse etc.


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