# Taijutsu Fight 28: Gai vs Itachi



## RedChidori (Oct 2, 2014)

The title says it all .



VS



Location: Kakashi vs Zabuza 
State of Mind: IC
Starting Distance: Face-to-face
Knowledge: Reputation
Restrictions: *PURELY TAIJUTSU ! Sharingan is for precognition ONLY! Also, Gates are restricted. EDIT: HIRUDORA IS RESTRICTED*
Additional Info: *Itachi isn't sick. Gai is in Base only.*

Please provide a legitimate reason why either combatant wins, loses, or stalemates.

*READY?! FIGHT   !!!!! -RedChidori*


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## JuicyG (Oct 2, 2014)

Itachi gets murdered.....Hard


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## IchLiebe (Oct 2, 2014)

Gai is strong enough to FUCKING DESTROY HIM. Literally beats the fuck out of him and leaves him in a ditch like the trash he is.

Gai 10/10 no dif.


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## Beyonce (Oct 2, 2014)

Itachi hasn't shown taijutsu feats on par with base Gai I'd say with Sharingan Itachi would be able to dodge his attacks. But in the end if it's just Taijutsu Gai wins Low diff at best


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## Bonly (Oct 2, 2014)

Because I know someone else is gonna bring it up, I'll do it first. Base Hirudora GG . Then you have the people who say "art mistake(or whatever they say)" and people saying it's not and then the thread topic changes ck

But without that I'd say it could go either way leaning towards Itachi slightly.


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## RedChidori (Oct 2, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Because I know someone else is gonna bring it up, I'll do it first. *Base Hirudora GG .* Then you have the people who say "art mistake(or whatever they say)" and people saying it's not and then the thread topic changes ck
> 
> But without that I'd say it could go either way leaning towards Itachi slightly.



Hirudora restricted .


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## JuicyG (Oct 2, 2014)

Come on...bring the Itachi wank, I know its near...

Inb4

Itachi wins because he is more skilled


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## OG Appachai (Oct 2, 2014)

oh look, another thread including itachi lol i wonder what fallacious things his fandom will bring up.

Also, inb4 50+ plus replies.

OT: even with sharingan precog i doubt itachi can stay away from Gai forever or even go on the offensive seeing as even obito who has sharingan precog plus rinnegan and hashirama cell boost couldnt land a hit on gai without the probability of getting a boulder shattering nunchaku to the face.

Gai wins seeing the distance also, low to mid diff..

@JuicyG, dam bro i can only rep you so much aha


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## Bkprince33 (Oct 2, 2014)

If kakashi does decent against gai, im not seeing why itachi gets stomped.

Itachi being slighty faster then kakashi should do the same or a bit more decent, very close but im leaning towards a tie or edging base gai slighty due to being more  skilled


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## Sadgoob (Oct 2, 2014)

Itachi will beat him if they're both allowed to use their weapons of choice (kunai and nun-chucks) as that mitigates minor strength and durability advantages, but Gai will win if it's just fists.​


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## Might Gai (Oct 2, 2014)

Gai would shove his foot into Itachi's asshole so hard his guts would blow out from the top of his head.


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## Alex Payne (Oct 3, 2014)

Itachi can't beat Gai in CQC. Weapons or not. He is inferior in every aspect except for reflexes/perception. Then there is Gai's Sharingan-fighting experience from Kakashi.



Strategoob said:


> Itachi will beat him if they're  both allowed to use their weapons of choice (kunai and nun-chucks) as  that mitigates minor strength and durability advantages, but Gai will  win if it's just fists.​





Strategoob said:


> minor strength and durability advantages​





Strategoob said:


> minor ​


Lel


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## Rocky (Oct 3, 2014)

I would put money on Gai being one of the few ninja fast & skilled enough to deflect Itachi's projectiles with just a pair of nunchaku.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 3, 2014)

Alex Payne said:


> Itachi can't beat Gai in CQC. Weapons or not. He is inferior in every aspect except for reflexes/perception.



Perception, reflexes, strategy, and range vs durability, strength, and stamina. Seems like a classic clash, and I tend to favor evasive range over more powerful close combat. The gap in intellect seals it for me.



Alex Payne said:


> Lel



Relatively speaking. He's no stronger than Kabuto or Naruto were when Itachi blocked their blows, nor is he so durable that kunai won't work. Hence those factors being negligible when ranged weapons are a factor.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 3, 2014)

Rocky said:


> I would put money on Gai being one of the few ninja fast & skilled enough to deflect Itachi's projectiles with just a pair of nunchaku.



And Itachi's fast and skilled enough to avoid nun-chucks. But at some point, someone's going to outsmart someone's perception, reflexes, strategy, etc. before stamina becomes a factor in a chakra-less battle.

I'd put my money on the super genius with magic eyes, but that's just me.


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

OP says no gates...

Gai takes off the leg weights and blitzes Itachi GG


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## RedChidori (Oct 3, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> OP says no gates...
> 
> Gai takes off the leg weights and blitzes Itachi GG



Gai doesn't have weights does he ?


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## Alex Payne (Oct 3, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> Perception, reflexes, strategy, and range vs durability, strength, and stamina.


 Perception, reflexes and range vs durability, strength, experience, skill and strategy. Gai's superiority in taijutsu expertise is too much for Itachi to overcome with just intelligence advantage in pure CQC bout. 



Strategoob said:


> Relatively speaking. He's no stronger than Kabuto or Naruto were when Itachi blocked their blows, nor is he so durable that kunai won't work. Hence those factors being negligible when weapons are a factor.


Featwise Gai is stronger than SM Kabuto(absolutely no strength feats prior and after SM) and KCM Naruto non-chakra arms moves(got overpowered by Obito throwing Gunbai around). And endurance+durability(in which Gai is leaps and bounds above Itachi) would still matter against basic kunai attacks unless direct vital-hits were used(and even then endurance helps).


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## Sadgoob (Oct 3, 2014)

Alex Payne said:


> Perception, reflexes and range vs durability, strength, experience, skill and strategy. Gai's superiority in taijutsu expertise is too much for Itachi to overcome with just intelligence advantage in pure CQC bout.



I don't weight a 0.5 tier advantage anywhere near 3-tomoe Sharingan precognition, and that's assuming that sick Itachi's taijutsu proficiency wasn't affected by having a sickly body.

I know the go-to response is Kimimaro, but Kimimaro's body had innate regeneration, so his street-fighting-proficiency may not be affected as drastically as someone without regeneration.

And ol' Hiruzen wouldn't have been affected nearly as much, as he was just a remarkably healthy old guy. Past his prime, but not about to drop dead of natural causes by any stretch.

Itachi would have superior strategy, no? Was that a typo?

Lastly, just because Gai's older does not mean he'd have more net-benefit from experience, as Itachi's the one with eidetic memory, piercing insight, and whose been around more high levels.

People often give an "experience" disadvantage to Itachi because of his youth, but Itachi had likely Sharin-memorized more in 10 years with Akatsuki than Hiruzen retained from two wars.​


Alex Payne said:


> Featwise Gai is stronger than SM Kabuto(absolutely no strength feats prior and after SM) and KCM Naruto non-chakra arms moves(got overpowered by Obito throwing Gunbai around). And endurance+durability(in which Gai is leaps and bounds above Itachi) would still matter against basic kunai attacks unless direct vital-hits were used(and even then endurance helps).



Featwise, sure. But given what we know about those special types of chakra, their strength would be enhanced to being on Gai's level if not above. Durability helps, but it's not a huge deal.

When a few kunai hit their mark, Gai would slow down.​


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

RedChidori said:


> Gai doesn't have weights does he ?




Of course he does...


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## RedChidori (Oct 3, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Of course he does...



He hasn't taken them off... :sanji... And he's still fast as fuck .


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

RedChidori said:


> He hasn't taken them off... :sanji... And he's still fast as fuck .




It's terrifying how fast Gai is just from pure _hard work_ and training


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## RedChidori (Oct 3, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> It's terrifying how fast Gai is just from pure _hard work_ and training



I know right.


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## Haruhifan21 (Oct 3, 2014)

Come on, people.

Gai's main arsenal vs. gimped Itachi.

Gai wins... pretty easily.


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

rainyrabbit said:


> Come on, people.
> 
> Gai's main arsenal vs. gimped Itachi.
> 
> Gai wins... pretty easily.




Its not that most people don't already know this, its just that there are hard-core Itachi wankers around this place who will always at least tried to give Itachi a fighting chance even when he stands none


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## StickaStick (Oct 3, 2014)

Did someone say Itachi was going to out-strategize Gai in a taijutsu fight? Gai's fucking domain? Plz.


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

The Format said:


> Did someone say Itachi was going to out-strategize Gai in a taijutsu fight? Gai's fucking domain? Plz.




And they're serious about it too, thats the funny part


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## Alex Payne (Oct 3, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> I don't weight a 0.5 tier advantage anywhere near 3-tomoe Sharingan precognition, and that's assuming that sick Itachi's taijutsu proficiency wasn't affected by having a sickly body.


 It isn't just "a 0.5 tier difference". Gai's stat got roof-tier 5. You know pretty well how people with 5s have their own rankings within that Tier(see genjutsu stats between Itachi and everybody else). In terms of pure skill Gai's showings are still number one even after we've reached manga's ending. His 5 in taijutsu is Itachi's 5 in genjutsu to other people 5s. 



Strategoob said:


> I know the go-to response is Kimimaro, but Kimimaro's body had innate regeneration, so his street-fighting-proficiency may not be affected as drastically as someone without regeneration.
> 
> And ol' Hiruzen wouldn't have been affected nearly as much, as he was just a remarkably healthy old guy. Past his prime, but not about to drop dead of natural causes by any stretch.


 We've been through this before. Numerous times. Skill isn't affected. See Armless Oro with 5 Hand Seals. And your arguments about Hiruzen and Kimi are pretty weak.



Strategoob said:


> Itachi would have superior strategy, no? Was that a typo?


 This isn't a shogi match. This is pure taijutsu fight. Itachi is out of his element. He is facing the most skilled taijutsu user known to us. And is restricted to playing Gai's game with Gai's rules. He is simply lacking expertise to properly use his superior intelligence. 



Strategoob said:


> Lastly, just because Gai's older does not mean he'd have more net-benefit from experience, as Itachi's the one with eidetic memory, piercing insight, and whose been around more high levels.
> 
> People often give an "experience" disadvantage to Itachi because of his  youth, but Itachi had likely Sharin-memorized more in 10 years with  Akatsuki than Hiruzen retained from two wars.


 Gai for all his life fought using taijutsu. Trained his ass for taijutsu. Itachi fighting more high-level opponents doesn't mean squat because all his known opponents were ninjutsu-types. It is pure taijutsu match - Itachi having experience dealing with Orochimaru's, Deidara's, Sasuke's and Kabuto's ninjutsu and genjutsu is completely useless here. 

And stop with baseless wank. Hiruzen shits on Itachi's experience even more than Gai would shit on his taijutsu-related experience. 



Strategoob said:


> Featwise, sure. But given what we know about those special types of chakra, their strength would be enhanced to being on Gai's level if not above. Durability helps, but it's not a huge deal.


 KCM Naruto was being overpowered by Obito in the same fight Obito was being impressed by Gai's strength. Kabuto having different Sage Mode and not a single strength feat is enough to not grant him Naruto/Jiraiya SM boosts. And why are you not using DB stats here? You've used "just 0.5 difference" about taijutsu and yet when it is about strength(you know 1.5+ difference with Gai having another roof-tier 5) it is suddenly pure feats and cross-comparisons with even a bit of portrayal.



Strategoob said:


> When a few kunai hit their mark, Gai would slow down.


 And Itachi isn't going to get hit before that, right? Assuming he actually hits Gai. Who was defending against Gunbai without using vision. From opponent who is strong enough to push KCM Naruto around with his throwing strength.


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## rubberguy (Oct 3, 2014)

drunk gai solos.


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## Ruse (Oct 3, 2014)

Gai beats that ass.


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## LeBoyka (Oct 3, 2014)

_Anyone stating Itachi wins this has some serious fanboy issues. _

*Gai rape-stomps the living hell out of Itachi here*. He's faster, stronger, and straight up more skilled in taijutsu (he's also used to fighting an opponent with pre-cog.). And no, Itachi did not "keep up" with BM Naruto -> Naruto was a weakened clone, who was more occupied with talking than actually fighting. And no, Itachi blitzing Bee isn't a sufficient feat: because after his famous blitz, Bee forces him to retreat with his crazy ass sword techniques (AKA catching someone by surprise is not totally impressive when they force you to retreat later on). Like seriously, get real.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

Can go eitherway, but I am giving Itachi the edge because of precog. Gai can't land a hit on him.



Alex Payne said:


> It isn't just "a 0.5 tier difference". Gai's stat got roof-tier 5. You know pretty well how people with 5s have their own rankings within that Tier(see genjutsu stats between Itachi and everybody else). In terms of pure skill Gai's showings are still number one even after we've reached manga's ending. His 5 in taijutsu is Itachi's 5 in genjutsu to other people 5s.
> 
> We've been through this before. Numerous times. Skill isn't affected. See Armless Oro with 5 Hand Seals. And your arguments about Hiruzen and Kimi are pretty weak.
> 
> ...



Sorry to break the news for you, but intelligence becomes a factor in taijutsu matches. 

Fighting is all about "mind games." Feints, counter attacks etc.
Obviously you don't know much about fighting.  Have you ever played "fighting games" like street fighter and such ?


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## Alex Payne (Oct 3, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sorry to break the news for you, but intelligence becomes a factor in taijutsu matches.
> 
> Fighting is all about "mind games." Feints, counter attacks etc.
> Obviously you don't know much about fighting.  Have you ever played "fighting games" like street fighter and such ?


Yeah. I've been playing fighting games constantly for about 10 years now. Guilty Gear mainly. Local tourneys and stuff. Played against people who went to Japan for SBO. I hope you do know what SBO is. Using fighting games examples...

Gai is the one who've been playing fighting games non stop. Itachi is the one who've played a lot of different games with fighting games being just a part of his gaming library. Gai was playing fighting games before Itachi was born. And is confirmed 1st place in Narutoverse Fighting Tournament.

Intelligence is a factor but when you are facing people who are in another world in terms of experience and expertise it wouldn't matter. I saw it numerous times in fighting games if you want to use that example. I saw not very bright slow-learners who spent like half of year of constant playing and learning inner workings of a game. Combos, frame-data for not just your characters but every character(so you know how to counter them), matchups, frame-traps, hit-boxes, doing combos 100+ times so that when you wake up them in middle of the night and shove a controller in their hands they would perform it flawlessly. And they wrecked the living shit out of bright folks who could go up to a decent level after a couple of weeks. Bright people who could reach level of said slow-learners without spending that amount of time. Bright people who can easily outperform slow-learners in most intelligence-related tasks. 

Fighting Games Nerd Gai vs Very Bright Gamer Itachi who plays fighting games from time to time... It seems that it is you who doesn't know much about what he is talking about. Fighting games example, lol.


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## Ghost (Oct 3, 2014)

Itachi is faster and has pre cog, but Guy has more skill, strength, stamina and durability. 

Guy low high diff.

With weapons I'd say Itachi high/extreme diff.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

Alex Payne said:


> Yeah. I've been playing fighting games constantly for about 10 years now. Guilty Gear mainly. Local tourneys and stuff. Played against people who went to Japan for SBO. I hope you do know what SBO is. Using fighting games examples...
> 
> Gai is the one who've been playing fighting games non stop. Itachi is the one who've played a lot of different games with fighting games being just a part of his gaming library. Gai was playing fighting games before Itachi was born.




I am sorry but you are not going to try to sell me "older the better" bullshit right ?

Because if what you said was true, then world champions would never lose their titles to newcomers or less experienced fighters.


Anyways, Gai may have more knowledge and experience on taijutsu, but Itachi is smarter and has magic eyes that allows him to read every single move Gai makes before he does it. So no, Gai won't be on top of the mind games here. Itachi will be.

Also Sharingan precog gives Itachi a massive advantage here, you may even call it unfair in a strict taijutsu match between people who are this close both in skill and speed.


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## Alex Payne (Oct 3, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I am sorry but you are not going to try to sell me "older the better" bullshit right ?
> 
> Because if what you said was true, then world champions would never lose their titles to newcomers or less experienced fighters.


Is this fighting games still or RL fighting competition?

Gai is taijutsu specialist. Itachi isn't. Gai is superior in every physical stat except for perception and reflexes. Gai is superior in skill. In experience. 
Itachi simply is out of his element here. Your points ain't applicable here because there aren't two comparable fighters here. It is specialist vs bright amateur. With amateur not having any deal-breaking advantage to overcome his lack of overall skill.


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## Monster (Oct 3, 2014)

Gai rapes.


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## Jad (Oct 3, 2014)

Hang on. Gai's reflexes made him comfortably use the highest Gate possible without drawbacks. He couldn't have moved so fast and executed and timed all his moves accurately had he have say Itachi's reflexes. Hell, he was was able to bombard Juubidara with Evening Elephants from all angles equally spaced out from each other in order to lock him [1]. And probably one of the best known reflexes was him moving through space to time his kick to perfection and land it on Madara - rather than just hitting him with just his body. You aren't gonna find reflexes like that in Itachi from what I've seen. 

Gai's able to use his reflexes at the fullest in Base form, even such as noticing twitches in movements among other characters (Kisame's underwater finger twitch) to moving in between a Kamui warp of his Nunchuku's, to timing his movement for Naruto to leap from behind over his shoulder and attack Obito, to being able to execute and time all  his Taijutsu movements in higher gated form; Gaara even commenting on his inhuman movements, which comes with inhuman reflexes. Madara didn't praise Gai's '_strength_' or '_speed_', although he did, he praised his Taijutsu skill moreso. Being able to execute those moves to perfection takes having already extraordinary reflexes. This is what you get when you train with higher speeds, your reflexes adjust.

Gai's reflexes, tied with his speed, tied with his Taijutsu, and especially the speed of his Taijutsu executions, rigorous training in that one art, experience, knowing all forms of Taijutsu (databook), being called the best in the village even when Hiashi who poses a 5 in Tai also lives there, strength, durability, endurance (resiliency), stamina, and being highly proficient in weapons (databook and feats). He clocks all Physical stats, the only one in the databook to do so. Itachi is loses this. This is Gai's domain, I mean he is suppose to even mimic a combination of Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee apparently.​


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

Alex Payne said:


> Is this fighting games still or RL fighting competition?


I don't think there is much difference in princible.




> Gai is taijutsu specialist. Itachi isn't.


I never argued otherwise.



> Gai is superior in every physical stat except for perception and reflexes. Gai is superior in skill. In experience.
> Itachi simply is out of his element here. Your points ain't applicable here because there aren't two comparable fighters here. It is specialist vs bright amateur. With amateur not having any deal-breaking advantage to overcome his lack of overall skill.


To be perfectly honest, going by databook stats and their feats(outside gates of course) there isn't a remarkable difference. If Itachi didn't have sharingan, Gai'd definitely win but we've seen  how sharingan's precog turned the tides before, between combatants who weren't even close. 

And your error here is that, you assume Itachi somehow needs to have as much experience as Gai in taijutsu to be able to compete. Fighting is fighting, and when it comes to fighting, Itachi is by no means an "amateur." This guy worked with Akatsuki for a decade, he served as a member of the anbu. Gai's only measuring stick was Kakashi. Itachi has fought and defeated people stronger than Kakashi. 

Taijutsu is a pretty straight foward fighting style, it isn't something Itachi isn't familiar with. Especially when you consider Itachi himself is very good at it.


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## LostSelf (Oct 3, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> And Itachi's fast and skilled enough to avoid nun-chucks. But at some point, someone's going to outsmart someone's perception, reflexes, strategy, etc. before stamina becomes a factor in a chakra-less battle.
> 
> I'd put my money on the super genius with magic eyes, but that's just me.



This is a bit doubtfull. Rinnegan Obito, who was schooling KCM Naruto in close quarters, failed to land a single strike to Gai with Soushuga and was forced to phase before he was even allowed to finish an arm swing.

If we take into account that this is the guy that forced Minato to use Hiraishin twice, as well. And i don't see how Inteligence is going to help you when you are dealing with someone better in that they do, doing that thing especifically.

And, if Gates doesn't enhances reflexes, Gai's reflexes would be considerably superior to Itachi's. Considering that he fought Juudara in the eight gate and didn't seem to be blitzed anytime (Even though most of the fight was off panel) and could handle his own Juubi Jiin pressuring speed.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 3, 2014)

Alex Payne said:


> In terms of pure skill Gai's showings are still number one even after we've reached manga's ending. His 5 in taijutsu is Itachi's 5 in genjutsu to other people 5s.



Based on what? As far as I remember, Kakashi and Kisame weren't crushed in taijutsu against base Gai, so why wouldn't Itachi be able to hold his own, keep his distance, and use weapons?

Is Bee with swords not on a higher level? I don't think Itachi would win a pure weapons match against Bee, but the evade and kunai strategy was used on Bee and could be quite effective.​


Alex Payne said:


> We've been through this before. Numerous times. Skill isn't affected. See Armless Oro with 5 Hand Seals. And your arguments about Hiruzen and Kimi are pretty weak.



The two factors are "knowledge" and "proficiency." Proficiency in hand to hand is affected. Orochimaru was a retcon given he was using jutsu and molding chakra just fine in DB3.​


Alex Payne said:


> Gai for all his life fought using taijutsu. Trained his ass for taijutsu. Itachi fighting more high-level opponents doesn't mean squat because all his known opponents were ninjutsu-types.



Plenty had advanced taijutsu as well as advanced ninjutsu, not to mention any jinchuriki or other targets Akatsuki met along the way. I'm sure Itachi's memorized plenty of taijutsu patterns.​


Alex Payne said:


> And stop with baseless wank. Hiruzen shits on Itachi's experience even more than Gai would shit on his taijutsu-related experience.



Eidetic memory should be wanked. Or do you not remember part one and how a Sharingan accelerates learning from experience by a tremendous factor, much greater than 5 to 1.​


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

I have eidetic memory. It is some useless shit bro.

Are you referring to something else ?


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## Prinz Porno (Oct 3, 2014)

Itachi is not beating Gai in his own game.. Gai destroys Itachi and pretty much everyone in taijitsu.


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

LeBoyka said:


> _Anyone stating Itachi wins this has some serious fanboy issues. _
> 
> *Gai rape-stomps the living hell out of Itachi here*. He's faster, stronger, and straight up more skilled in taijutsu (he's also used to fighting an opponent with pre-cog.). And no, Itachi did not "keep up" with BM Naruto -> Naruto was a weakened clone, who was more occupied with talking than actually fighting. And no, Itachi blitzing Bee isn't a sufficient feat: because after his famous blitz, Bee forces him to retreat with his crazy ass sword techniques (AKA catching someone by surprise is not totally impressive when they force you to retreat later on). Like seriously, get real.




Great post. Unfortunately we will also have Itachi fans who will claim that he is at least equal to the opponent in every aspect of fighting even if he is totally outclassed, like this match. Hell if I made a perfect susano contest between Itachi and Madara they'd probably still say Itachi is the winner...

Just have to ignore some of their off the wall reasoning's  



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Can go eitherway, but I am giving Itachi the edge because of precog. Gai can't land a hit on him.



Precog doesnt mean shit if your body is unable to move you faster than the attack coming. Gai has shown better speed in base form than Itachi ever has in any form.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sorry to break the news for you, but intelligence becomes a factor in taijutsu matches.



Yes, intelligence comes in to play in a taijutsu match. For example, your level of expertise in taijutsu is measuring stick for your intelligence in CQC. Gai's cqc intelligence is through the roof.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> _Obviously you don't know much about fighting_.  *Have you ever played "fighting games" like street fighter and such* ?



LOL

Your going to claim he doesn't know anything about fighting, yet your prime example was a street fighter game..?  

I don't think _you_ know what fighting is all about. Have you ever even been in real fist fight on the streets, or put on a pair of boxing gloves and go toe to toe with someone else before ? I doubt it. But hey, at least you got your games though lmao Get Real

Go watch some UFC or some MMA videos and learn something. Fighting is about style, conditioning, vision, foot work, technique & proper form. All of which Might Gai has going for him in a Taijutsu fight.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Precog doesnt mean shit if your body is unable to move you faster than the attack coming. Gai has shown better speed in base form than Itachi ever has in any form


.
I'll pretend that you just didn't say Gai can move faster than Itachi can physically react, thats absolutely retarded, but I'll ask your for evidence to prove that Gai is faster than Itachi.
Statement or a scan, anything will do.



> Yes, intelligence comes in to play in a taijutsu match. For example, your level of expertise in taijutsu is measuring stick for your intelligence in CQC. Gai's cqc intelligence is through the roof.


Itachi reads his opponents like an open book. Not sure how Gai's intelligence beats Itachi's here.



> LOL
> 
> Your going to claim he doesn't know anything about fighting, yet your prime example was a street fighter game..?
> 
> I don't think _you_ know what fighting is all about. Have you ever even been in real fist fight on the streets, or put on a pair of boxing gloves and go toe to toe with someone else before ? I doubt it. But hey, at least you got your games though lmao Get Real



You don't have to be an actual street fighter to know about fighting. Simulations work under the same princible, as reality. It is just the execution is different.

Why do I get the feeling that I am educating a 6 year old whenever I talk to you ? 



> Go watch some UFC or some MMA videos and learn something. Fighting is about style, conditioning, vision, foot work, technique & proper form. All of which Might Gai has going for him in a Taijutsu fight.



When did I say fighting isn't about those things ? Please, quote me on  that.

I just said mind games are a part of fighting, in response to Alex claiming that intelligence would be a non factor.


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> .
> I'll pretend that you just didn't say Gai can move faster than Itachi can physically react, thats absolutely retarded, but I'll ask your for evidence to prove that Gai is faster than Itachi.
> Statement or a scan, anything will do.



Itachi reacting and Itachi actually moving his entire body out of the way is two totally separate things. Itachi might know the attack from Gai is coming, and might even be able to put up a half of a block in the way, but he is not able to evade Gai's attacks, even with precog.

For example, when Sasuke first met Lee and they had their little dual in the room. Lee explains it perfectly. That even with the sharingan, unless you can maneuver your body at the same rate, its futile.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Itachi reads his opponents like an open book. Not sure how Gai's intelligence beats Itachi's here.



Sharingan has done far better against ninjutsu users than it has ever been shown against an expert taijutsu user. Itachi can read all he wants from Gai, like I said before it doesn't matter unless Itachi has the speed to evade Gai. Gai is faster than Itachi. Go figure




Grimmjowsensei said:


> You don't have to be an actual street fighter to know about fighting. Simulations work under the same princible, as reality. It is just the execution is different.



Street fighter game is not a correct simulation to real fighting, sorry to break it to ya son




Grimmjowsensei said:


> Why do I get the feeling that I am educating a 6 year old whenever I talk to you ?



I feel the same way about you majority of the time...coincidence ?




Grimmjowsensei said:


> When did I say fighting isn't about those things ? Please, quote me on  that.



Just dropping knowledge.


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## Veo (Oct 3, 2014)

Itachi is a good taijutsu fighter.

Gai is THE taijutsu fighter.

Konoha's noble green beast wins this mid diff at most, every time.


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## Bloo (Oct 3, 2014)

It's not going to be a stomp, but it'll be somewhat close to one. Gai wins this pretty handily.

In other words, Itachi is a great Taijutsu user. However, Taijutsu is to Gai what Genjutsu is to Itachi.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

The thing is, C is a genjutsu user. Not sure if he is a specialist but it seemed like it was his bread and butter. And Sasuke owned him in 1 panel with genjutsu and it isn't exactly Sasuke's forte. It is just that Sharingan gives him an unfair advantage.

The same thing happens here.

Remember how Lee admitted to this after witnessing Sasuke's immense growth in a month during the finals.




JuicyG said:


> Itachi reacting and Itachi actually moving his entire body out of the way is two totally separate things. Itachi might know the attack from Gai is coming, and might even be able to put up a half of a block in the way, but he is not able to evade Gai's attacks, even with precog.
> 
> For example, when Sasuke first met Lee and they had their little dual in the room. Lee explains it perfectly. That even with the sharingan, unless you can maneuver your body at the same rate, its futile.



Wait wait... Lets stop here for now. Are you suggesting that the speed difference between Gai and Itachi is as big as the difference between Sasuke & Lee pre Chuunin exam ? 

What do you base this on ? Just curious.


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

Bloo said:


> It's not going to be a stomp, but it'll be somewhat close to one. Gai wins this pretty handily.
> 
> In other words, Itachi is a great Taijutsu user. However, Taijutsu is to Gai what Genjutsu is to Itachi.




Itachi is no greater of a taijutsu user than people like Kakashi, Kimi, Lee, Neji etc. There is nothing that Itachi has done with purely taijutsu that even puts him remotely close to Gai's level of expertise. 

Genjutsu is to Gai as Taijutsu is to Itachi, there is nothing there.


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> The thing is, C is a genjutsu user. Not sure if he is a specialist but it seemed like it was his bread and butter. And Sasuke owned him in 1 panel with genjutsu and it isn't exactly Sasuke's forte. It is just that Sharingan gives him an unfair advantage.



That doesnt apply here. C is a genjutsu user, but not the best user in the series like Gai is to taijutsu





Grimmjowsensei said:


> Wait wait... Lets stop here for now. Are you suggesting that the speed difference between Gai and Itachi is as big as the difference between Sasuke & Lee pre Chuunin exam ?
> 
> What do you base this on ? Just curious.



Thats not what I was really trying to point out, but yes Gai's speed even in base is at least a full tier above Itachi's. 


*Here's a good place to start your learning*


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> That doesnt apply here. C is a genjutsu user, but not the best user in the series like Gai is to taijutsu


Gai without gates isn't the best taijutsu user though. He was getting his ass handed to him by Kisame. Who is alot slower and less skilled in taijutsu.



> Thats not what I was really trying to point out, but yes Gai's speed even in base is at least a full tier above Itachi's.



Based on ? 



> *Here's a good place to start your learning*



I am not going to read that.

But you can use evidence from the databook or the manga. Scans, statements anything of that nature.

I'll be waiting.


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## OG Appachai (Oct 3, 2014)

just one thing though, kisame is not "a lot slower and less skilled" he actually has very good speed and very high skill. He was able to go toe to toe with a killer be who straight up destroyed a taka sasuke who has sharingan precog.

And Gai only got punched once because he attempted to parry a strike without knowledge on kisame's str. That doesnt really say he "got his ass handed to him"


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## JuicyG (Oct 3, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Gai without gates isn't the best taijutsu user though. He was getting his ass handed to him by Kisame. Who is alot slower and less skilled in taijutsu.



Gai wasn't getting beat due to his lack of taijutsu skill. Kisame's speed, strength and stamina gets over looked hard-core around here. Itachi is no Kisame when it comes to those areas. 




Grimmjowsensei said:


> Based on ?



How about read the link I gave that supported my reasons....



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I am not going to read that.
> 
> But you can use evidence from the databook or the manga. Scans, statements anything of that nature.



The link provided all that information. If you don't except it, then that means you don't except canon feats that suggest base Gai speed is far above Itachi.


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## Pocalypse (Oct 3, 2014)

Gai wins this handily. Base Gai with just his nunchucks was able to go toe to toe with a Rin?negan Obito who was using Kamui, intangilibity and even the RS fan to try and hit Gai but he couldn?t. Itachi stands no chance here. Gai can even defend attacks aimed at his back without even looking. This is his forte, he?s not losing here when he?s shown to fight in base against a Rin?negan Obito.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Gai wasn't getting beat due to his lack of taijutsu skill. Kisame's speed, strength and stamina gets over looked hard-core around here. Itachi is no Kisame when it comes to those areas.


I got you now. You just admitted that there are other aspects that are effective in combat which can overcome taijutsu skill.

I never said Itachi'd defeat Gai because he is better @ taijutsu. I said he'd defeat Gai because of sharingan precog.




> How about read the link I gave that supported my reasons....
> 
> The link provided all that information. If you don't except it, then that means you don't except canon feats that suggest base Gai speed is far above Itachi.



I am not going to read a fucking essay someone else wrote.

I want to know what manga/databook scan or statement do you base this on.

Also, write your own arguments, chump.


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## OG Appachai (Oct 3, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I got you now. You just admitted that there are other aspects that are effective in combat which can overcome taijutsu skill..


well thats just it. Kisame didnt beat guy, he won that encounter because gai didnt know about his massive strength, in hindsight if gai did know i doubt that hit would have connected. They only clashed twice in that battle and the first time gai easily disarmed him and would have gotten a big lick in if not for samehada spikes.

Gai has knowledge on sharingan precog and itachi doesnt have any strength feats that says getting a lick in on gai can really do anything even IF he does manage to tag someone whos more skilled and faster in cqc


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 3, 2014)

OG Appachai said:


> well thats just it. Kisame didnt beat guy, he won that encounter because gai didnt know about his massive strength, in hindsight if gai did know i doubt that hit would have connected. They only clashed twice in that battle and the first time gai easily disarmed him and would have gotten a big lick in if not for samehada spikes.
> 
> Gai has knowledge on sharingan precog and itachi doesnt have any strength feats that says getting a lick in on gai can really do anything even IF he does manage to tag someone whos more skilled and faster in cqc



Tell me how exactly does having knowledge on sharingan precog allows him to counter it ? How does he prevent Itachi from reading his movements ? 

Also Gai isn't faster than Itachi. Even if he was, well, read Sasuke vs Naruto in VOTE.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 3, 2014)

Itachi won't get stomped, because he's really good at taijutsu himself and has precog.  He can keep up in taijutsu for a period of time with almost anyone.  That said, he can't win, even if he won't get stomped.  Guy is just superior to him in all regards to taijutsu.  Itachi eventually loses, by doing pretty alright up until he dies.


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## Chaotic Gangsta (Oct 3, 2014)

If the Gates and Hirudora are restricted I doubt it's a stomp. Itachi's actually quite great at Taijutsu. That annexed with his absolute Sharingan he can definitely get up there with Gai. Kakashi's been able to best him multiple times with just one Sharingan. If he can do it so can Itachi. Itachi's speed, Taijutsu & Sharingan prowess (in terms of perception) far exceed Kakashi's. I think Itachi can definitely defeat Gai.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 3, 2014)

Chaotic Gangsta said:


> If the Gates and Hirudora are restricted I doubt it's a stomp. Itachi's actually quite great at Taijutsu. That annexed with his absolute Sharingan he can definitely get up there with Gai. Kakashi's been able to best him multiple times with just one Sharingan. If he can do it so can Itachi. Itachi's speed, Taijutsu & Sharingan prowess (in terms of perception) far exceed Kakashi's. I think Itachi can definitely defeat Gai.



It's implied that Kakashi was beating Guy by using sharingan genjutsu and the rest of his arsenal.

That's why Guy developed the anti-sharingan fight by only looking at your opponent's feet style to counter Kakashi's sharingan.  So it was mostly Kakashi besting Guy by using his taijutsu with his ninjutsu with his genjutsu, any Guy was still winning about half of the time with just taijutsu.  If this were Itachi with his ninjutsu and genjutsu, then you could make the, "If Kakashi could do it so could Itachi but better," argument.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 4, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> It's implied that Kakashi was beating Guy by using sharingan genjutsu and the rest of his arsenal.
> 
> That's why Guy developed the anti-sharingan fight by only looking at your opponent's feet style to counter Kakashi's sharingan.  So it was mostly Kakashi besting Guy by using his taijutsu with his ninjutsu with his genjutsu, any Guy was still winning about half of the time with just taijutsu.  If this were Itachi with his ninjutsu and genjutsu, then you could make the, "If Kakashi could do it so could Itachi but better," argument.



The 50% thing factored in stuff like rock-paper-scissors competitions.

Also, remember that when we learned that, Kakashi was rocking a 4.0 in taijutsu and speed, so again, I really doubt Itachi would get crushed in a taijutsu only match, and might win a weapons match.​


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## Chaotic Gangsta (Oct 4, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> It's implied that Kakashi was beating Guy by using sharingan genjutsu and the rest of his arsenal.
> 
> That's why Guy developed the anti-sharingan fight by only looking at your opponent's feet style to counter Kakashi's sharingan.  So it was mostly Kakashi besting Guy by using his taijutsu with his ninjutsu with his genjutsu, any Guy was still winning about half of the time with just taijutsu.  If this were Itachi with his ninjutsu and genjutsu, then you could make the, "If Kakashi could do it so could Itachi but better," argument.



Since when has Kakashi ever used Sharingan Genjutsu? 

Deidara believed he developed an anti-Sharingan strategy (fail) as well which we all know was ineffective. It was never said that Kakashi used Ninjutsu against him. Also, Gai may be fast but his eyes certainly aren't. Itachi is way too quick to just stare at his feet. Anyway, the argument still applies.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 4, 2014)

These time.  And apparently enough against Guy for him to develop countermeasures against it.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 5, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> Based on what? As far as I remember, Kakashi and Kisame weren't crushed in taijutsu against base Gai, so why wouldn't Itachi be able to hold his own, keep his distance, and use weapons?​




Scans of Kakashi vs Gai, I would love it as I have never seen them. And Gai did infact cruch Kisame in taijutsu. The worst thing you can do to a swordsmen is disarm them, and both Gai and Lee disarmed him(Lee first by just fucking kicking Samehada out of his hand, and then Gai later by his crazy shit). Do I need to post scans of how Obito couldn't land a hit on Gai and he kept up with full speed Naruto (unlike Itachi) and Minato. How about feats of Itachi hitting someone with kunai's and shuriken? And don't post scans of shared vision,etc. They weren't paying any attention to him and Kabuto even stated he forgot about Itachi. They weren't moving or anything. He couldn't even tag Hebi Sasuke with them while he got hit himself. Not to mention Itachi has to use shunshin to keep a distance while Gai uses pure footspeed (meaning Gai can constantly maintain his speed while Itachi will start-stop-start-stop)



> Is Bee with swords not on a higher level? I don't think Itachi would win a pure weapons match against Bee, but the evade and kunai strategy was used on Bee and could be quite effective.



He didn't hit bee. Bee was in a genjutsu and Itachi had already thrown shuriken, then Bee broke the genjutsu and pure 7 swords out and blocked everything before the shuriken could cross...what 10 feet?



> Plenty had advanced taijutsu as well as advanced ninjutsu, not to mention any jinchuriki or other targets Akatsuki met along the way. I'm sure Itachi's memorized plenty of taijutsu patterns.​



Sasuke saw Lee's movements and had to train a month for them. And then he couldn't keep them up for long.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I am sorry but you are not going to try to sell me "older the better" bullshit right ?



In the real world age starts to hinder you quickly. A person who's 20 is naturally going to be faster, have better reactions, be stronger, and can take more damage. Look at the UFC, when people turn around 40, their careers go down heavily. They can't fight like they used to because of age. Here Gai is in his prime, even in real world age, and has more experience in Taijutsu than Itachi as it's all he could do. Gai has also been apart of the village going on missions and stuff while Akatsuki has shown no such thing. They have to capture a bijuu but can do it at their leisure. So there is no sign of Itachi fighting much in those years.



> Because if what you said was true, then world champions would never lose their titles to newcomers or less experienced fighters.



How many times does it happen? And don't forget in the real world, a punch in the right place, right time knocks you out, even if it's a light tap compared to bombs they normally use.



> Anyways, Gai may have more knowledge and experience on taijutsu, but Itachi is smarter and has magic eyes that allows him to read every single move Gai makes before he does it. So no, Gai won't be on top of the mind games here. Itachi will be.



Smarter means fuck all in a fight, that's why nerds get bullied in school. And how many sharingan users have been tagged? Zabuza tagged Kakashi despite being close in speed and skill. How about Sasuke vs Lee? How about Sasuke vs Naruto? How about Kakashi vs Kakuzu? How about Kakashi vs v2 jins? How about Itachi vs Kabuto? How about Sasuke vs Ei? Sharingan users get hit multiple times. They don't see everything before it happens, they predict based on muscle movements. Same thing as Kimmi reading Lee movements, yet once Lee got Drunk he got wrecked. Same thing as Sasuke being able to read Bee's movements yet he got destroyed. And some shit just can't be predicted and too hard to read.



> Also Sharingan precog gives Itachi a massive advantage here, you may even call it unfair in a strict taijutsu match between people who are this close both in skill and speed.



Massive? Being able to tell your about to die doesn't mean you can stop it.


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## Jad (Oct 6, 2014)

If Gai could train Lee into a Taijutsu master according to the Databook. What does that say about Gai's skill? Grandmaster  I say that for all characters in Naruto; Ei, Tsunade etc... it's like comparing prime Bruce Lee to a  black belt or lower martial artist. Gai is just on another playing field in Taijutsu skill compared to eveyone else. Like I said in another thread, the 5 in Tai does him no justice, hence why Kishimoto illustrated and wrote all these statement and feats for Gai; in manga and databook.


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