# Charlotte Katakuri vs. Itachi Uchia



## B Rabbit (Feb 16, 2018)

Strongest version of Itachi, GOATkuri can take.


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## El Hermano (Feb 16, 2018)

Katakuri squirts and Itachi chokes on his Mochi to death.

FIN.

Katakuri takes this pretty easily.


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## Blαck (Feb 16, 2018)

Itachi ain't ready for that grilled mochi

Reactions: Like 4


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## Alita (Feb 17, 2018)

From the standard starting distance itachi should win via genjutsu especially if kata has no knowledge on it. 

If starting distance is 4 meters or less kata would win.

If this is edo itachi tho then kata always loses.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

Just gonna leave my 2 cents on the genjutsu topic because that usually dominates any vs match involving Itachi. Kata has the perfect counter to it and the rest of his SG abilities imo. He can see ahead that Itachi would try some shit and simply melt into the environment with awakening. Can't genjutsu the environment. 

Now someone is going to say that Itachi wins because Rock Lee and several other dudes destroyed half a meteor in Nardo the last and Itachi > that for some reason therefore lel Katakuri and his 13 megaton scaling or some shit.


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## B Rabbit (Feb 17, 2018)

Have not seen a single argument of why G4 Luffy and Katakuri can't scale to Prime Chinjao.

Hell even the One Piece downplayers have no.argument against this. Chinjao's a scrub.


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## Daio (Feb 17, 2018)

Katakuri bodies.


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## B Rabbit (Feb 17, 2018)

A guy on the regular who alters the future, and can accurately guess 5 seconds to the future to.the point that trained his paramecia to be a logia is not going to get fucked over ny Genjutsu.

That's just absurb.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

To reinforce my point about how useful kata's awakening would be in this fight I just want to list some ways he could use the environment against Itachi while staying perfectly safe against most of his abilities (I say most because of Izanagi, can't it grant wishes or something ?).

- Melt into the environment to stay safe from genjutsu and amateratsu
- If Itachi covers the field with flames manipulate the area by using flowing currents of mochi (has done it against Luffy)
- Against Susanno Kata can create galactic donuts out of thing air both in gatling form and the giant strength mochi fist giving him the ability to bypass the Susanno barrier completely.

Reactions: Like 2


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## xenos5 (Feb 17, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> A guy on the regular who alters the future, and can accurately guess 5 seconds to the future to.the point that trained his paramecia to be a logia is not going to get fucked over ny Genjutsu.
> 
> That's just absurb.



Yup. If he sees any future where he's getting caught in illusions he'll close his eyes ahead of time.


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## xenos5 (Feb 17, 2018)

Blαck said:


> Itachi ain't ready for that grilled mochi



Yeah. Itachi gonna get a Mochi Rocketo Puuuunch to the face before he even knows what hit him

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Keishin (Feb 17, 2018)

Smash edo itachi up and seal his pieces in mochi. Shouldn't be hard with Awakening.


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## shunsui1 (Feb 17, 2018)

B....bbut Itachi can beat Goku because Genjutsu. He'll smash Katakuri

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Ok while trying to ignore the obvious retarded downplay here...What version of Itachi is in this matchup ?


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## Foxve (Feb 17, 2018)

Although katakuri can see into the future, it doesn't mean he automatically knows what some of the occurrences means as shown by this last chapter for example. 

Hell some of the ninja that fight Itachi expect genjutsu before they even encounter him and they still get caught in it. 

Also, can Katakuri actually bust Susanoo and it's Yata mirror? A legit question as I don't know what his haki punches are sitting at.....


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Although katakuri can see into the future, it doesn't mean he automatically knows what some of the occurrences means as shown by this last chapter for example.
> 
> Hell some of the ninja that fight Itachi expect genjutsu before they even encounter him and they still get caught in it.
> 
> Also, can Katakuri actually bust Susanoo and it's Yata mirror? A legit question as I don't know what his haki punches are sitting at.....



Kata knew a punch was coming. He managed to dodge the linear blow he just wasn't expecting the ever accelerating recoil punch that came at him at weird angles. That was the whole point of snake man, attacks so fast and so unpredictable that Kata's foresight was no longer a deciding factor. Kata did get use to it during the fight and managed to dodge snake man several times.

But that is beside the point. Since we compare arsenals here Kata has the skills to render Itachi's SG a non factor. As for Susanoo, he doesn't need to destroy it. He can spawn galactic donuts inside the Susanoo or grab Itachi with mochi awakening similar to what Gaara did with Madara.

Reactions: Like 1


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## B Rabbit (Feb 17, 2018)

I don't see why Katakuri and G4 Luffy can't scale to prime Chinjao.

So 27 Gigs for their top tier attacks (Peerless Donuts, Grilled Mochi)


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 17, 2018)

Amaterasu would fuck over his awakening, but any solid hit that Itachi takes would near, if not outright, kill him. Katakuri would have trouble with Yata but unless Itachi has full knowledge and isnt an Edo he loses 9/10 times.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Amaterasu would fuck over his awakening, but any solid hit that Itachi takes would near, if not outright, kill him. Katakuri would have trouble with Yata but unless Itachi has full knowledge and isnt an Edo he loses 9/10 times.



Amateratsu would fuck with his awakening how ?

It would have to burn though waves of Mochi instantly to be worth a damn. It's inextinguishable but slow burning, if anything it would play to Kata's favor he can simply manipulate the land and throw it back at Itachi.


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## Foxve (Feb 17, 2018)

It's apparent that Itachi wouldn't survive a haki blow from Kata. Even if he miraculously survived one no way in hell is he taking another. And he tends to throw more then one at a time so......



Vermilion Kn said:


> *Kata knew a punch was coming. He managed to dodge the linear blow he just wasn't expecting the ever accelerating recoil punch that came at him at weird angles*. That was the whole point of snake man, attacks so fast and so unpredictable that Kata's foresight was no longer a deciding factor. Kata did get use to it during the fight and managed to dodge snake man several times.



That's what I mean. He saw a punch coming and basically just guessed at the mechanics of it. He didn't see the recoil coming or even think that there would be one.






> But that is beside the point. Since we compare arsenals here Kata has the skills to render Itachi's SG a non factor. As for Susanoo, he doesn't need to destroy it. He can spawn galactic donuts inside the Susanoo or grab Itachi with mochi awakening similar to what Gaara did with Madara.



Has he ever spawned them around his opponent? I thought they were made around his general space and he made them punch in the direction of his opponent.

I also don't see don't see them just "appearing" inside Susanoo even if they do though. Gaara sand trick was used on an incomplete ribcage version wasn't it?



B Rabbit said:


> I don't see why Katakuri and G4 Luffy can't scale to prime Chinjao.
> 
> So 27 Gigs for their top tier attacks (Peerless Donuts, Grilled Mochi)



I keep seeing Prime Chinjao brought up almost everytime there's a one piece scaling or strength question. Is it about this ice continent thing? Unless it was a continent with snow on it or made of Blue ice instead of just a continent made of regular ice I don't see that as impressive. Let alone the fact that it was his Prime Version.


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## B Rabbit (Feb 17, 2018)

It was calced to.be 87 gigatons or something.

However the problem is not the power but who gets scaled to.

Something Katakuri and G4 have more than enough credentals to get acaled too.


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## Steven (Feb 17, 2018)

Kata cant even beat Base Ruffy and you want scale him to Chinjao?

Not a single of his feats are even close to Chinjao´s Drill.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

Foxve said:


> That's what I mean. He saw a punch coming and basically just guessed at the mechanics of it. He didn't see the recoil coming or even think that there would be one.



Itachi's illusions are not as dynamic or random in their nature as Luffy's attacks while in snake man. He manipulates the chakra flow in his enemy's brain, if the enemy can counter that like kata can by simply removing himself from Itachi's field of vision his illusions are no longer a threat (Unless itachi can cast genjutsu on people without seeing them which I don't remember happening). 



Foxve said:


> Has he ever spawned them around his opponent? I thought they were made around his general space and he made them punch in the direction of his opponent.
> 
> I also don't see don't see them just "appearing" inside Susanoo even if they do though. Gaara sand trick was used on an incomplete ribcage version wasn't it?



He spawned them around Luffy several times. He would be able to spawn donuts inside Susanno, the donuts just form themselves in mid air. Oda hasn't explained it yet and I doubt he will but my interpretation is that Kata is using awakening to convert the air around him into Mochi.


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## Kingdom Come (Feb 17, 2018)

Katakuri destroys the Solo King




Rot said:


> Kata cant even beat Base Ruffy and you want scale him to Chinjao?
> 
> Not a single of his feats are even close to Chinjao´s Drill.



Stop trolling Rax


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## John Wayne (Feb 17, 2018)

>Ruffy ​


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## Steven (Feb 17, 2018)

Kingdom Come said:


> Katakuri destroys the Solo King
> 
> 
> 
> ...


?


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## Foxve (Feb 17, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> It was calced to.be 87 gigatons or something.
> 
> However the problem is not the power but who gets scaled to.
> 
> Something Katakuri and G4 have more than enough credentals to get acaled too.



It was done by a Prime Chinjao though right? As in a state that the one Luffy fought wasn't in.

Honestly though I could have sworn Luffy's dished out more DC that 



Vermilion Kn said:


> Itachi's illusions are not as dynamic or random in their nature as Luffy's attacks while in snake man. He manipulates the chakra flow in his enemy's brain, if the enemy can counter that like kata can by simply removing himself from Itachi's field of vision his illusions are no longer a threat (Unless itachi can cast genjutsu on people without seeing them which I don't remember happening).



Katakuri's pre-cog wouldn't help in this kind of situation. He'd just see himself standing still or attacking his own body not the illusions ( unless there is something I missed about Coo cause it didn't help Luffy when he was in one).

Also, Itachi can cast a genjutsu just by pointing at you.....




> He spawned them around Luffy several times. He would be able to spawn donuts inside Susanno, the donuts just form themselves in mid air. Oda hasn't explained it yet and I doubt he will but my interpretation is that Kata is using awakening to convert the air around him into Mochi.



My bad then. Didn't know they could appear next to the opponent. Must have missed that part.

I don't see them just forming inside Susanoo though. That's their space. It'd be the same as having something him make the donuts inside someone's body. As far as I know you can only enter a Susanoo if you can manage to bust it or the user lets you in.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Katakuri's pre-cog wouldn't help in this kind of situation. He'd just see himself standing still or attacking his own body not the illusions ( unless there is something I missed about Coo cause it didn't help Luffy when he was in one).
> 
> Also, Itachi can cast a genjutsu just by pointing at you.....



Kata would sense incoming danger, that is all that matters. He has the toolkit to counter Itachi's genjutsu by turning into goo and becoming one with the environment. From there he can attack with galactic donuts or avatar-esque mochi bending. I assume you're talking about Mondor and Luffy, It is unclear if that is an illusion (the anime had some BS filler that painted his powers as illusions but they don't behave like that in the manga.)and since he can lock people and animals into books evidence indicates that the books are separate dimensions that he can bring people into. But that is beside the point. 



Foxve said:


> My bad then. Didn't know they could appear next to the opponent. Must have missed that part.
> 
> I don't see them just forming inside Susanoo though. That's their space. It'd be the same as having something him make the donuts inside someone's body. As far as I know you can only enter a Susanoo if you can manage to bust it or the user lets you in.



It's not a separate dimension inside Susanoo. It's a chakra robot essentially that puts armor between the user and their enemies. If you can manipulate things inside the cockpit if you will you can like Gaara using the sand at Madara's feet.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Amateratsu would fuck with his awakening how ?
> 
> It would have to burn though waves of Mochi instantly to be worth a damn. It's inextinguishable but slow burning, if anything it would play to Kata's favor he can simply manipulate the land and throw it back at Itachi.


Sasuke’s Ama forced Kabuto’s earth manipulation to return to its original state. Dont see why it wouldn't also fuck with Katakuri trying to turn the ground into mochi


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Itachi can cast Genjutsu without eye contact...wtf. Asside from that he also has shit like Tsukuyomi,Izanami,Kotoamatsukami... if Katakuri gets hit with that.. it's bye bye.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Sasuke’s Ama forced Kabuto’s earth manipulation to return to its original state. Dont see why it wouldn't also fuck with Katakuri trying to turn the ground into mochi



Why would it ?

It's just a slow burning fire that can't be put out. Awakening grants df properties to the environment by the df user, why would Amaterasu negate that ?



TYPE-Rey said:


> Itachi can cast Genjutsu without eye contact...wtf. Asside from that he also has shit like Tsukuyomi,Izanami,Kotoamatsukami... if Katakuri gets hit with that.. it's bye bye.



He can't genjutsu someone he can't see. He can't genjutsu someone who is underground or on the other side of town. As for Izanami I said earlier that I don't know how to factor it into the fight since it was only used twice, once as a plot device and by Danzou to keep resurrecting himself. We don't know the limits of it so we can't say it could do something crippling to Katakuri that would be a NLF.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Why would it ?
> 
> It's just a slow burning fire that can't be put out. Awakening grants df properties to the environment by the df user, why would Amaterasu negate that ?
> 
> ...


Kabuto put “life” into the environment around him, and could control it like clay, Amaterasu forced it back to normal.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> We don't know the limits of it so we can't say it could do something crippling to Katakuri that would be a NLF.


Lol...no....no. That's not how this shit works...at all. Burden of proof is on you to prove that Katakuri can resist that shit ...not the other way around.


Vermilion Kn said:


> He can't genjutsu someone he can't see. He can't genjutsu someone who is underground or on the other side of town


Yeah...ok , and what guaruantees that Katakuri would be able to escape into the background or whatever the fuck ? Itachi literally has to look at him or to point his finger at him when the fight starts .


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Lol...no....no. That's not how this shit works...at all. Burden of proof is on you to prove that Katakuri can resist that shit ...not the other way around.



Ok then, Itachi uses Izanami and opens a black hole destroying the solar system. The end.



TYPE-Rey said:


> Yeah...ok , and what guaruantees that Katakuri would be able to escape into the background or whatever the fuck ? Itachi literally has to look at him or to point his finger at him when the fight starts .



Because it's one of his powers. Katakuri has mastered his awakening, he can use the ground as a swimming pool if he wanted to. He can see a short period into the future, who do you think would have the upper hand ?


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Kabuto put “life” into the environment around him, and could control it like clay, Amaterasu forced it back to normal.



I went back to the Itachi/Sasuke vs Kabuto fight and saw the panel you are talking about. Seems like plot to me but since the circumstances are similar I can accept that it would likely work on Kata's awakening. Still, galactic donuts, foresight, logia like abilities give Kata the win imo.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Ok then, Itachi uses Izanami and opens a black hole destroying the solar system. The end.



I'm not even gonna adress this stupidity.


Vermilion Kn said:


> Because it's one of his powers. Katakuri has mastered his awakening, he can use the ground as a swimming pool if he wanted to


So there's no guaruantee . Ok.


Vermilion Kn said:


> He can see a short period into the future, who do you think would have the upper hand ?


It doesn't matter. Low-tier precog doesn't equate to mind-fuck resistance and sharingan has limited precog too. Sauce could literally see all the shit Rock Lee could throw at him in their fight and he still got his ass handed to him.. You can see shit in the future all you want but that;s uselless if you don't have the means to counter whatever your opponent throws at you.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> I'm not even gonna adress this stupidity.



Ok then, explain how Izanami would help Itachi in this fight othan than giving him 2 extra lives like Danzou. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> So there's no guaruantee . Ok.



What do you mean there is no guarantee ? It's one of his powers, he uses it all the time. In the latest chapter he use the ground to close the distance between him and snake man Luffy while Luffy's fist was still traveling on the other side of the room. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> It doesn't matter. Low-tier precog doesn't equate to mind-fuck resistance and sharingan has limited precog too. Sauce could literally see all the shit Rock Lee could throw at him in their fight and he still got his ass handed to him.. You can see shit in the future all you want but that;s uselless if you don't have the means to counter whatever your opponent throws at you.



You obviously haven't read the arguments made here or read One Piece. Kata has precog, and he can see into the future as in legit seeing future events. Your Rock Lee argument can be applied to Kata here, Itachi's SG is not gonna help against such a versatile opponent with superior speed, strength and can attack from any angle.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Ok then, explain how Izanami would help Itachi in this fight othan than giving him 2 extra lives like Danzou.


I don't have to explain shit. This started from your claim that Itachi using Izanami on Katakuri  is a NLF. It's not. Again, do you have any proof that Katakuri can resist Izanami or not .. it's that simple.


Vermilion Kn said:


> What do you mean there is no guarantee ? It's one of his powers, he uses it all the time. In the latest chapter he use the ground to close the distance between him and snake man Luffy while Luffy's fist was still traveling on the other side of the room.


And can he do it faster than the time it would take Itachi to look at him  or point his finger on him ?


Vermilion Kn said:


> You obviously haven't read the arguments made here or read One Piece. Kata has precog, and he can see into the future as in legit seeing future events


Yeah and it doesn't refute anything i said.


Vermilion Kn said:


> Your Rock Lee argument can be applied to Kata here, Itachi's SG is not gonna help against such a versatile opponent with superior speed, strength and can attack from any angle.


Not really, no


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## Daio (Feb 17, 2018)

@Vermilion Kn You're confusing Izanami with Izanagi.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> I don't have to explain shit



Yeah, debate over.

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.



TYPE-Rey said:


> I'm not even gonna adress this stupidity.



Izanami is the time jutsu and Izanagi is the wish jutsu correct ?


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

>Don't know what i'm talking about
>Doesn;t even know what Izanami does.
> Doesn't know how burden of proof works
lel ok


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> >Don't know what i'm talking about
> >Doesn;t even know what Izanami does.
> > Doesn't know how burden of proof works
> lel ok



I know what it does and you haven't refuted shit.


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## El Hermano (Feb 17, 2018)

Doesn't genjutsu reuqire the opponent to have a chakra flow in order to work?


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Yeah keep demonstrating that you have no fucking idea how debating actually works.
Nice job.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Oh, and Vermillion whatever the fuck...you obviously don't know what Izanami does since you perfectly described what Izanagi does. You idiot.


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## Kingdom Come (Feb 17, 2018)

FlyingPan said:


> Doesn't genjutsu reuqire the opponent to have a chakra flow in order to work?


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Yeah keep demonstrating that you have no fucking idea how debating actually works.
> Nice job.



According to you debating = being passive aggressive and not refuting shit.  Do have actual arguments or just "Lel, don't have to say anything!!!!" ?


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## El Hermano (Feb 17, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> No.



?


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

FlyingPan said:


> ?


We have something called the equalization rule. Check it out.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> According to you debating = being passive aggressive and not refuting shit.  Do have actual arguments or just "Lel, don't have to say anything!!!!" ?


Yeah.. ok bud, come back when you'll at least know what an ability actually does and when you'll be able to adress burden of proof properly.
Untill then, bye.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Yeah.. ok bud, come back when you'll at least know what an ability actually does and when you'll be able to adress burden of proof properly.
> Untill then, bye.



Says the guy who doesn't know dick about Katakuri and his abilities.


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## El Hermano (Feb 17, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> We have something called the equalization rule. Check it out.


Didn't think it's automatically equalized. Doesn't it make no sense at times, though? You actually give him the upper hand and in many fights he pretty much automatically wins, all of that just in an attempt to give him a decent shot, which I can understand. It's kind of being unfair in an attempt to be fair.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Not our fault or Itachi's fault that certain verses have no resistance to mind-fuck whatsoever..so no , not unfair at all.
It would've been unfair to restrict a huge category of haxx in Nardo because of an in-verse particularity. Shit's being done here so that each setting can make full use of their abbilities.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Says the guy who doesn't know dick about Katakuri and his abilities.


>Implying
>Projecting

Pathethic.


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## SnowFlame (Feb 17, 2018)

Kaguya used IT on people without chakra, so at least some genjutsu can work on people with no chakra.


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## Keishin (Feb 17, 2018)

Foxve said:


> I don't see them just forming inside Susanoo though. That's their space. It'd be the same as having something him make the donuts inside someone's body. As far as I know you can only enter a Susanoo if you can manage to bust it or the user lets you in.


Gaaras sand..


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## Zern227 (Feb 17, 2018)

SnowFlame said:


> Kaguya used IT on people without chakra, so at least some genjutsu can work on people with no chakra.


 That seems more of a special property for IT rather than genjutsu in general.


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## Steven (Feb 17, 2018)

Kaguya use MT on the Humans before they had Chakra.

This Panel/statement is not anymore valid

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## LazyWaka (Feb 17, 2018)

Why do we care about Izanami? It's so impractical in its set up that its practically worthless.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Keishin (Feb 17, 2018)

Rot said:


> Kaguya use MT on the Humans before they had Chakra.
> 
> This Panel/statement is not anymore valid


We don't know when it was used..


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## Foxve (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> *Kata would sense incoming danger, that is all that matters*. He has the toolkit to counter Itachi's genjutsu by turning into goo and becoming one with the environment. From there he can attack with galactic donuts or avatar-esque mochi bending. I assume you're talking about Mondor and Luffy, It is unclear if that is an illusion (the anime had some BS filler that painted his powers as illusions but they don't behave like that in the manga.)and since he can lock people and animals into books evidence indicates that the books are separate dimensions that he can bring people into. But that is beside the point.



That's the thing though. What would he base that sense of danger of off? He has no way of knowing that simbly looking at Itachi or him pointing at Kata would cause a genjutsu. He'd try to observe him to see where the sense of danger is coming from. Katakuri would most likely jump back while keeping an eye on his opponent to see what he's doing.



> It's not a separate dimension inside Susanoo. It's a chakra robot essentially that puts armor between the user and their enemies. If you can manipulate things inside the cockpit if you will you can like Gaara using the sand at Madara's feet.



I want to say it wouldn't work on a perfect Susanoo, but Itachi hasn't been shown to have one so I'll give you this one.

I will say that this wouldn't be an immediate go to action for Katakuri though from the beginning though even bloodlusted. Like I said he'll probably be in a genjutsu before this becomes an issue however....


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 17, 2018)

Foxve said:


> That's the thing though. What would he base that sense of danger of off? He has no way of knowing that simbly looking at Itachi or him pointing at Kata would cause a genjutsu. He'd try to observe him to see where the sense of danger is coming from. Katakuri would most likely jump back while keeping an eye on his opponent to see what he doing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We go with the best application of their abilities in a blood lusted match. One of the things Kata can do tot avoid danger is use the surroundings to his advantages. He uses his awakening frequently to get the drop on his opponents it's one of his go to moves.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 17, 2018)

LazyWaka said:


> Why do we care about Izanami? It's so impractical in its set up that its practically worthless.


Kotoamatsukami would be the much better choice for Itachi to use


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## Sherlōck (Feb 17, 2018)

Foxve said:


> He has no way of knowing that simbly looking at Itachi or him pointing at Kata would cause a genjutsu.



He sees the future??????


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## Foxve (Feb 17, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Gaaras sand..



Gaara used the sand that Madara formed his incomplete Susanoo on top of by his own admission....


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## Foxve (Feb 17, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> We go with the best application of their abilities in a blood lusted match. One of the things Kata can do tot avoid danger is use the surroundings to his advantages. He uses his awakening frequently to get the drop on his opponents it's one of his go to moves.



He's not going to know that looking at his opponent causes genjutsu. He's not going to assume he has to turn to goo or melt into the ground at the start. He'll most likely jump back.



Sherlōck said:


> He sees the future??????



Obviously not completely. Otherwise he wouldn't have been wacked by luffy's recoil last chapter. Just because you can see the future doesn't mean you automatically understand everything that happens in it.


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## Keishin (Feb 17, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Gaara used the sand that Madara formed his incomplete Susanoo on top of by his own admission....


The point is that Katakuri can just summon his mochi in there to whip his ass...


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## Iwandesu (Feb 17, 2018)

There are 2 ways for this match.
Itachi uses genjutsu but it is useless because kata predicted his ass and then one shots him With a mochi punch.
Also no, itachi doesnt scalle to 6th path Rock Lee.
Even Kisame clone is far more durable than itachi and he got absolutely wasted by morning peacock.
Also kisame himself which is absurdly above itachi on endurance got almost killed by a single hirudora


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## Iwandesu (Feb 17, 2018)

Hirudora= dead itachi.
Itachi gist is by no means his dura lol.


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## Foxve (Feb 17, 2018)

Keishin said:


> The point is that Katakuri can just summon his mochi in there to whip his ass...



I was just explaining why gaara sand could get in that's all.....



iwandesu said:


> There are 2 ways for this match.
> Itachi uses genjutsu but it is useless because kata predicted his ass and then one shots him With a mochi punch.
> Also no, itachi doesnt scalle to 6th path Rock Lee.
> Even Kisame clone is far more durable than itachi and he got absolutely wasted by morning peacock.
> Also kisame himself which is absurdly above itachi on endurance got almost killed by a single hirudora



Katakuri has limited pre-cog. He can see what happens in the future, but not how it happens unless it's simplistic (like a punch, a kick or an object going in his direction). 

He saw Luffy throw a punch but didn't see it's recoil or the fact that he'd be hit by it if he stayed in the same spot.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 17, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Obviously not completely. Otherwise he wouldn't have been wacked by luffy's recoil last chapter. Just because you can see the future doesn't mean you automatically understand everything that happens in it.



It was too fast. Is Itachi too fast for him?


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## Foxve (Feb 18, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> It was too fast. Is Itachi too fast for him?



It wasn't too fast for him. Soon as he figured out what was happening he ether dodged or attempted to block most of the hits.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 18, 2018)

Not my point but whatever.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

How can you predict mindfuck anyway? Is he gonna see himself getting put under genjutsu somehow, just watching Itachi point his finger out or activate his Sharingan isnt going to help him much.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## xenos5 (Feb 18, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> How can you predict mindfuck anyway? Is he gonna see himself getting put under genjutsu somehow, just watching Itachi point his finger out or activate his Sharingan isnt going to help him much.



If you see what clearly appears to be an illusion in your near future wouldn't you close your eyes to try to block out unnecessary information and rely on your senses?

For a simple comparison, Spider-Man can deal with Mysterio's basic-ass illusions by closing his eyes and relying on his spider-sense to tell apart the real danger from the fake. Katakuri can use his Future Sight like Spiderman's spidey sense and would likely think to do the same.


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## Foxve (Feb 18, 2018)

You don't know what causes it though. The fight starts and Katakuri immediately closes his eyes without knowledge? Yeah, he's not going to just know not to look a opponent in the eye or at their fingers.......


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 18, 2018)

Foxve said:


> You don't know what causes it though. The fight starts and Katakuri immediately closes his eyes without knowledge? Yeah, he's not going to just know not to look a opponent in the eye or at their fingers.......



Does kata have a counter to genjutsu or not ? That is question and the answer is yes. If we keep biasing what will happen in the opening salvo of the fight in favor of either character this thread will keep going until a mod locks it. Itachi is a genjutsu master, kata is an awakening and CoO master t with the means to counter Itachi that is all that matters.


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## Foxve (Feb 18, 2018)

No he doesn't have a counter. Precog is not instant resistance to mind fuck. 

If he looks in Itachi's eyes, he gets tied to a stake and tortured for 3 days. If he looks at Itachi's fingers he gets put in a fake battle that he'll be unable to tell the difference between it and reality until it's too late. In both cases he'll be standing still in reality....


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 18, 2018)

Foxve said:


> No he doesn't have a counter. Precog is not instant resistance to mind fuck.
> 
> If he looks in Itachi's eyes, he gets tied to a stake and tortured for 3 days. If he looks at Itachi's fingers he gets put in a fake battle that he'll be unable to tell the difference between it and reality until it's too late. In both cases he'll be standing still in reality....



Sigh, no one is arguing that Kata is going to resist Itachi's genjutsu. He's not gonna get hit in the first place. He's faster, can see the future, can vanish into the environment and can attack from anywhere. He doesn't have to engage Itachi face to face.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> If you see what clearly appears to be an illusion in your near future wouldn't you close your eyes to try to block out unnecessary information and rely on your senses?
> 
> For a simple comparison, Spider-Man can deal with Mysterio's basic-ass illusions by closing his eyes and relying on his spider-sense to tell apart the real danger from the fake. Katakuri can use his Future Sight like Spiderman's spidey sense and would likely think to do the same.


He can only see around 5 seconds, how is he going to see an illusion? How is he going to know to close his eyes if he sees an illusion? How is he even going to KNOW its an illusion

Also Spider Mans precog >>>> Katakuri’s.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 18, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> He can only see around 5 seconds, how is he going to see an illusion? How is he going to know to close his eyes if he sees an illusion? How is he even going to KNOW its an illusion





He knew what G4 was before Luffy used it.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

For the milionth time... Itachi doesn't need eye-contact to cast his  genjutsu so this tangent about Katakuri predicting shit and closing his eyes is irrelevant.


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## Keishin (Feb 18, 2018)

Closing his eyes obviously counters the finger point as well. It still requires the enemy to look at something.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 18, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Closing his eyes obviously counters the finger point as well. It still requires the enemy to look at something.



I've been saying it for pages, Itachi needs to see his enemy to cast the genjutsu he can't cast a genjutsu on someone he can't see or don't know the location of.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

...no. Itachi devised the finger pointing shit specifically for people who would try to avoid eye contact.


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## xenos5 (Feb 18, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> He can only see around 5 seconds, how is he going to see an illusion? How is he going to know to close his eyes if he sees an illusion? How is he even going to KNOW its an illusion
> 
> Also Spider Mans precog >>>> Katakuri’s.



So you think Itachi would wait more than 5 seconds to try Genjutsu?

And it’s pretty easy to tell apart illusions from reality. Katakuri sees the future he should either see himself becoming motionless and in a trance or part of the illusion Itachi would put him into early.

So closing his eyes would be a pretty natural response to that.


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## xenos5 (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> For the milionth time... Itachi doesn't need eye-contact to cast his  genjutsu so this tangent about Katakuri predicting shit and closing his eyes is irrelevant.





TYPE-Rey said:


> ...no. Itachi devised the finger pointing shit specifically for people who would try to avoid eye contact.



If avoiding eye contact was enough before Itachi came up with that finger pointing shit how would closing your eyes (blocking your vision entirely) not be even more effective? 

Can you point to a single instance of Itachi casting genjutsu on someone who already had their eyes closed?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

People can have genjutsu cast on them without eye contact. Ocular genjutsu is his specialty be theres other kinds.



xenos5 said:


> So you think Itachi would wait more than 5 seconds to try Genjutsu?
> 
> And it’s pretty easy to tell apart illusions from reality. Katakuri sees the future he should either see himself becoming motionless and in a trance or part of the illusion Itachi would put him into early.
> 
> So closing his eyes would be a pretty natural response to that.


HOW WOULD HE KNOW TO CLOSE HIS EYES THOUGH?????

Reactions: Winner 2


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## xenos5 (Feb 18, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> People can have genjutsu cast on them without eye contact. Ocular genjutsu is his specialty be theres other kinds.



Has he shown these other types of genjutsu? Or has he only shown to use ocular genjutsu?




OneSimpleAnime said:


> HOW WOULD HE KNOW TO CLOSE HIS EYES THOUGH?????



1. If he sees himself in a trance (which is possible since it seemed like he could see Luffy’s Jet Culverin arm behind him in one of his visions so his future sight extends past his own immediate vision) than one would typically assume the trance would be the result of some induced hypnosis. And since he would not know the cause of that induced hypnosis what else would you think to do other than close your eyes and block any potential triggers that could cause it? 

2. If he sees illusions in the future blocking your vision would be a common idea to block that out as your other senses would compensate and you wouldn’t see impossible things that distract you from reality.

Closing your eyes is not an advanced tactic it would take a genius to use. Katakuri is decently smart so I don’t think he’d just stand dumbfounded and do nothing for the 5 seconds he would have before the genjutsu would be activated.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 18, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> HOW WOULD HE KNOW TO CLOSE HIS EYES THOUGH?????



Look at the panel I linked a few posts ago.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

Or he would use CoO even more heavily since thats his speciality. Since its not effected by illusions


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Look at the panel I linked a few posts ago.


And? Thats Luffy physically changing his body, not a subtle ass illusion like Itachi can cast.

He can just make Kata unable to move which wouldnt give him anything to work off of to know to close his eyes.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 18, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> And? Thats Luffy physically changing his body, not a subtle ass illusion like Itachi can cast.
> 
> He can just make Kata unable to move which wouldnt give him anything to work off of to know to close his eyes.



Luffy hadn't even changed and Kata already knew what G4 was. He buried Luffy under a hill of mochi Luffy never transformed. He is going to know that an illusion is coming. From then on the strat I explained would make genjutsu a non issue.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Luffy hadn't even changed and Kata already knew what G4 was. He buried Luffy under a hill of mochi Luffy never transformed. He is going to know that an illusion is coming. From then on the strat I explained would make genjutsu a non issue.


No

He saw the future and changed it. He saw Gear 4 but then stopped that from happening


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 18, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> No
> 
> He saw the future and changed it. He saw Gear 4 but then stopped that from happening



And he would do the same against Itachi. Kata has seen entire conversations in the future, he can sense intent which is basic as hell for a CoO user, why wouldn't he sense that Itachi was going to use an Illusion or the intent coming from the attack ?

Seriously you guys are saying that Itachi is going to land a genjutsu on a much faster and stronger opponent that can attack from literally anywhere with his awakening. Is he going to genjutsu Katakuri through the ground ?


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## Sherlōck (Feb 18, 2018)

TBF Katakuri punches Itachi's face before he even gets time to use genjutsu.

Reactions: Winner 5 | Disagree 1


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## Amol (Feb 18, 2018)

Katakuri murders Itachi. 
The way people talk about genjutsu really. 
It goes on border line no limit fallacy.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Amol (Feb 18, 2018)

And on Finger Genjutsu. 
Prove that it would work on someone on Katakuri's caliber.
It's best feat is preRS-Naruto.
Or do we scale every single genjutsu to same level now?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Amol said:


> Katakuri murders Itachi.
> The way people talk about genjutsu really.
> It goes on border line no limit fallacy.


No..it's the other way around actually since :


Amol said:


> And on Finger Genjutsu.
> Prove that it would work on someone on Katakuri's caliber.
> It's best feat is preRS-Naruto.
> Or do we scale every single genjutsu to same level now?


Some of you fuckers don't know or don't want to aknowledge how this shit works.
You are the one who have to prove that Katakuri can resist genjutsu. The burden of proof is on you.
As a general thing ..haxx like mind-fuck or soul fuck is assumed to work on someone unless said someone actually has feats of resisting mind-fuck or soul-fuck. It;s really simple. It's been this way for a long time.
The NLF is fuckers trying to imply Katakuri resisting genjutsu since he and his verse have virtually no mind-fuck resistance or feats of such a thing.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Zern227 (Feb 18, 2018)

The finger genjutsu still requires you to look at his finger by the way. In chapter 259, when Itachi explains it Naruto clearly remembers looking at Itatchi's hand.


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## Amol (Feb 18, 2018)

Obviously one needs to look at Finger for that genjutsu to work. 
If there was no  limit on it Itachi would have used it in Kabuto when Kabuto closed his eyes. 
Itachi had to resort to Izanami there. 
Uchihatards generally doesn't care about logic.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Bernkastel (Feb 18, 2018)

How fast is Itachi anyway?
Can he even keep up wtth Katakuri?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 18, 2018)

First and foremost: Itachi is in the losing end of ANY stat. DC, Dura, Stamina, Speed. 

Second: Itachi does not get scaled in DC/Dura from Rock Lee or from anyone in the war or after the war, that's simply idiotic, not only the feat was performed later after a obvious power surge in Nardo, it was performed by a guy that excels in areas Itachi completely DOES NOT. Let me take an example for you: Crocodile was a Shichibukai, a position of power that is relevant to the manga to this day and we know that he even fought WB and that WB pirates(I think Marco mentioned some shit about defending WB from Crocodile's assault but Luffy was faster) even acknowledged him as a threat. BUT THE GUY IS ONLY TOWN LEVEL. If we scale back to him being a shichibukai, and scale back the fact that he should've been stronger, then we end up in a loop where Luffy from Alabasta should be scaled ot high level feats in One Piece. It is just retarded. That's why chronology is a thing in the manga. Every fight the stakes get higher, in (almost) every NEW fight the OLDER fight is now outdated save something on the plot(Like, losing your powers, etc). It's SIMPLE STORY PROGRESSION. 

Third: Chinjao is a scrub. He's no Yonko, Admiral or even a measly Shichibukai, he achieved nothing, he was schooled by Garp in the most Bellamy-ish way. If you thnik that a First Mate from a Yonko does not scale to him, you guys should stop reading One Piece because you clearly are not able to grasp it.

Fourth: Some points about genjutsu: you guys treat it like every genjutsu is a one shot and if cast the opponent is done for. Let me school you on the wonderful world of how low tier genjutsu actually is in mind rape in fiction: (Disclaimer I do know that the wikia is not a reliable source for much, but for the things that I will present here it will be useful and reliable enough)



> A victim's chakra flow, if disrupted enough, can break the caster's influence. This "genjutsu dissipation" (幻術解, _Genjutsu Kai_) can be done by the victim themselves, (assuming they realise they're under a genjutsu's influence) or an ally who emits chakra into them;[6]  who have formed a good relationship with their  prefer the latter method whenever they need it.[7]




If we equalize Chakra = Haki, then ... Katakuri, a master haki user with a burst of CoC should fall under genjutsu kai. 


> Pain that is not caused by the genjutsu can bring victims back to their senses.[8]




The win battle condition in the standard OBD rules is death. Itachi will have to try and kill Katakuri(Who can survive any blow deal to his body, really), so either Itachi actually kills Katakuri in one shot, which he can't, or Kata is going to wake up pissed off.



> If a caster's vision is obstructed, such as by the , that at least prevents the use of ocular genjutsu.[9]




I'm gonna get to it later but it's improbable that Itachi will even see Katakuri coming, so yeah, it's very possible he won't even be able to cast a genjutsu.



> Possessing a  renders one largely invulnerable to genjutsu as their acute vision allows them to recognise its flaws and influence. They can also free others from genjutsu by inserting themselves into the opponent's illusion and release it.[10]




Huuuum I wonder if a MASTER CoO USER HAS A GOOD PERCEPTION ... I WONDER . 

Some points on Tsukuyomi: it never killed anyone(Kakashi was ok, I think the jinchuriki were also hit by Tsukuyomi and were unscathed but do not quote me on this, there were some fodder killed by tsukuyomi tho but I'd rather not equate fodder to Kata), and it is NOT INFINITE. The whole point about Kaguya's/Madara's plan was to make an infinite version of Tsukuyomi. So, it will end up in the fact that whenever Tsukuyomi finishes, Katakuri will be probably just fine, and if he is not fine afterwards: he will probably be insane, I do not want a bloodlusted insane Katakuri near me. 

Point is, Nardo is in a very low tier of mind rape. If you do a mind rape, you should make sure that your opponent either stay in that state(By making a infinite loop, generally), or that you can control or enemy and make them kill themselves, or that you completely destroy your opponent's mind making him a vegetable, " But Mr. Black Leg, Izanami/Tsukuyomi puts you in a loop ", I think I made myself clear as to Tsukuyomi being simple to overcome now, on to Izanami: Not only it requires time:



> To begin the technique, after selecting any arbitrary moment, the caster uses their Sharingan to remember the physical sensations both of their body and that of their opponent's during that instant like a photograph (represented as: *A*). The user must then intentionally replicate the same sensation and in the same way, memorise that instant with their Sharingan (represented as: *A'*). Izanami overlaps and connects these two identical bodily sensations (A and A'), as well as the flow of time between them, creating an infinite loop of events that entraps the opponent's consciousness. The user can also use their Sharingan to remember multiple sensations, (represented as B, C and so forth) and those sensations will also be used when Izanami is activated. The user also doesn't need necessarily to replicate A with A' to initiate Izanami. They can also replicate B with B' or C with C' as well. The more sensations they memorise, the better their chances would be to initiate Izanami on a person and the more sensations the victim will experience each time they repeat a loop.



Something Itachi certainly won't have when fighting a faster opponent, but, it is simply put away: 



> created to reprimand and save the users of Izanagi, the victim is able to escape the infinite loop if they can acknowledge the real results of their actions and in doing so, accept their fate.



Now, this is a fucking plot device genjutsu, to talk about Kabuto's arrogance, etc, etc, yadda yadda, but come on, you are put under a ilusion, you repeat your action in a loop, it comes a time you just accept your fight, and that time is very early on. Come on, if you think a mind rape that has the key to unlocking being " accepting your fate "  you are just delusional. 

Finally, I made a post about Nardo genjutsu being so flawed and low tier. There are many other downsides to genjutsu, like the fact that genjutsu requires the user to control the flow of chakra of the victim. Under equalization rules, do you REALLY think that Itachi would be able to control the flow of energy of someone like Goku ? I'd like to see him try. There are very good mind rapes in fiction, like Aizen's(And I fucking loathe Bleach), but genjutsu is not one of them.

As to what really happens: the outcome of the fight probably is Itachi getting exploded by a Mochi Fist in the first few seconds before doing anything. He's way slower. And if an edo, Kata just put Itachi under tons of Mochi. Itachi has no way in hell of winning this people wank him way too much. I can understand though, such a good character.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

Haki =\= chakra. They do not equalize


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## The World (Feb 18, 2018)

Not all genjutsu has to be the receiver ending with foam at the mouth or killing themselves.

sometimes it can be just a split second distraction for Itachi to set up Susano-o and stab dogtooth for sealing


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## The World (Feb 18, 2018)

More times than not I see Dogtooth opening his mochi portal gates and pummeling Itachi into submission 

Though I guess Itachi has a few tricks up his sleeve with Izanami/nagi and Koto


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## Kingdom Come (Feb 18, 2018)

Since Haki and Chakra does not equalize then Katakuri rapes the fuck outta Itachi so hard Itachi will genjutsu his own ass into an Infinite Tsukuyomi


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## Mr. Good vibes (Feb 18, 2018)

So from reading this thread Itachi's gonna somehow genjutsu someone who outclasses him in every stat (specifically in speed and range) on top of having pre-cog.


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## Kingdom Come (Feb 18, 2018)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> So from reading this thread Itachi's gonna somehow genjutsu someone who outclasses him in every stat (specifically in speed and range) on top of having pre-cog.



Yes, Amol explains why

"Uchihatards generally doesn't care about logic."


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

... It's funny how people talk about logic when they resort to ad-hominems and several members don't know how haxx works and how burden of proof works.
That being said... Itachi certainly can genjutsu Katakuri since the former doesn't have resistance to mind-fuck. Depending on how the match goes the chances of him succesfully using genjutsu on Katakuri might be big or practically non-existent depending on a number of factors ...but... Itachi certainly can genjutsu Katakuri.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> ... It's funny how people talk about logic when they resort to ad-hominems and several members don't know how haxx works and how burden of proof works.
> That being said... Itachi certainly can genjutsu Katakuri since the former doesn't have resistance to mind-fuck. Depending on how the match goes the chances of him succesfully using genjutsu on Katakuri might be big or practically non-existent depending on a number of factors ...but... Itachi certainly can genjutsu Katakuri.


Well of course if Itachi does manage to land it then katakuri is done the problem is landing it.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> several members don't know how haxx works and how burden of proof works.



Oh, we all know that, but no amount of one shooting hax(_Not _the type of hax in Itachi's case) is going to be useful if it can't land. And as I said: Nardo's mind rape is not in a high tier(except for global infinite tsukuyomi) because it has a NUMBER of ways to counter not to mention downright negate it and get the hell away from it.

Genjutsu has never killed anyone(Maybe fodder), genjutsu has never been placed upon a target for more than fucking 10 minutes(Except a genjutsu that has a really bad "accepting your fate" as the key to getting away from it). The one time genjutsu has actually done something to someone was to Kakashi in PRE-TS. What you don't understand is that even in-universe genjutsu is like a smokescreen or a flashbang. You use it to get your opponent dizzy, confused, create oppenings, you don't deal damage. The only genjutsu that are useful, are Kotoamatsukami and Madara's genjutsu to control Kurama(That I believe it never had it's name revealed, treated as a fodder techinique), of course Infinite Tsukuyomi fits in here too, but I mentioned it later.

Well, anyway, even if somehow, in a slight chance, genjutsu was placed upon Kata, he'd have a way to free himself. Not likely though, the stats are all in favor for Kata.

(Also, BTW, just to remind you guys that Itachi doesn't have Kotoamatsukami)


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## Jackalinthebox (Feb 18, 2018)

Itachi loses, but Tsukuyomi would take out Katakuri if he were to actually get hit with it. Katakuri hasn't shown any mindfuck resistance to my knowledge 

And other Genjutsu have lasted for more than 10 minutes. Sasuke casually knocked out Sakura for multiple hours & had all the Bijuu under his control for just as long. Obito had the one Mizukage under his Genjutsu for years even


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Oh, we all know that, but no amount of one shooting hax(_Not _the type of hax in Itachi's case) is going to be useful if it can't land


That's true while debatable in this case.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Nardo's mind rape is not in a high tier


Depends on what you compare it with. In this case ... we're talking about a verse who has virtually no mind-fuck resistance so it's really irrelevant.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Genjutsu has never killed anyone(Maybe fodder)


Irrelevant. Putting your enemy in a coma for example should be enough to grant you the victory and if it's not it gives you ample of time to set up your attack while your enemy is chasing pretty butterflies.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> genjutsu has never been placed upon a target for more than fucking 10 minutes


Ten minutes of your enemy being mentally innactive is more than enough .


Mr. Black Leg said:


> What you don't understand is that even in-universe genjutsu is like a smokescreen or a flashbang. You use it to get your opponent dizzy, you don't deal damage


No shit... maybe that's the reason it;s  literally called  Illusionary Techniques.
Also that's factually not true since there are genjutsu that can infilict damage like Tsukuyomi .


Mr. Black Leg said:


> he only genjutsu that are useful, are Kotoamatsukami and Madara's genjutsu to control Kurama


Again, factually not true. Izanagi is considered a genjutsu and that's basically low tier reality warping. Not usefull my ass.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Well, anyway, even if somehow, in a slight chance, genjutsu was placed upon Kata, he'd have a way to free himself


Except he would not since he has 0 resistance  to mind-fuck.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> (Also, BTW, just to remind you guys that Itachi doesn't have Kotoamatsukami


No..you're right, he never actually used it on himself to snap out of Edo Tensei.
Also just as a reminder..Nardo chars are trained from day one on how to counter genjutsu so all of them have a modicum of resistance to it. Pulling out of genjutsu in-verse is not really a feat against the genjutsu but a feat for the person dispelling it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blαck (Feb 18, 2018)

Quick question, would puddings Df ability be classified as Mind fuck or just your basic memory manipulation?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

Blαck said:


> Quick question, would puddings Df ability be classified as Mind fuck or just your basic memory manipulation?


Its some kind of abstract memory erasure. No one has resisted it anyway


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Irrelevant. Putting your enemy in a coma for example should be enough to grant you the victory and if it's not it gives you ample of time to set up your attack while your enemy is chasing pretty butterflies.



Agreed. And besides the sword from Itachi's susano'o, there's really nothing that can even pose a threat to Kata while under genjutsu influence. If Kata were to stand there for three days while Itachi spammed all of his offensive techiniques, he'd be fine after those three days and just one punch Itachi. Also, Itachi's not putting Kata into a coma. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> debatable in this case.



Not really debatable.



TYPE-Rey said:


> Depends on what you compare it with. In this case ... we're talking about a verse *who has virtually no mind-fuck resistance* so it's really irrelevant.



Irrelevant, because they have acces to things that directly put them out of the genjutsu. Let's say, there's a mindfuck that can be broken by willpower, and let's say that GL's don't have mindfuck resistance(Which they do, but let's pretend they don't). If said willpower-weak mindfuck were cast in a GL's mind, the GL would be able to break out of it because they have a way to use what it takes to get out of the damn mindfuck. Same here, Kata doesn't need mindfuck resistance because he has something(CoO) that actually can help him break out of this mindfuck. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> Ten minutes of your enemy being mentally innactive is more than enough .



Are you talking about this fight or in general ? It might be, it might not, but Itachi would have to know that none of his powers except for the sword would work on Kata. Not to mention that each and every ocular jutsu Itachi uses, drains Itachi himself. Outlasting Itachi while being under a genjutsu isn't really hard, the dude's a sucker for stamina.



TYPE-Rey said:


> Also that's factually not true since there are genjutsu that can infilict damage like Tsukuyomi .



Not killing damage, "making you go crazy" is very debatable. The damage done to Kakashi was PSYCHOLOGICAL, not physiological(Really, you can go look it up if you want to). Who's to say that a guy that has powers based on willpower would be affected by something that makes you damaged in your psiqué ? The guy also has a power that literally means he has "a king's will". Not only Kata can break out of tsukuyomi by having CoO, the effects wouldn't even be severe since he has CoC. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> Again, factually not true. Izanagi is considered a genjutsu and that's basically low tier reality warping. Not usefull my ass.



Conceded, did not know that Izanagi was considered genjutsu. Damn, hella strong genjutsu . Really low level reality warping with limited use, but very useful at getting another shot at your opponent. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> No..you're right, he never actually used it on himself to snap out of Edo Tensei.



Was that irony or are you agreeing with me ? In case of irony: I'd like to remind you that it was a crow in which he had implanted Shisui's sharingan to snap him out of Edo, as Shisui was well known for his Kotoamatsukami techinique, if anyone else could use it, then he would not be so rare . Do you read the manga ?



> Later, Shisui entrusted his remaining eye to Itachi Uchiha, who implanted it into the eye-socket of . This crow was later forcibly stored inside  and rigged to emerge only in response to confronting Itachi's .



In case you're actually agreeing with me, then I have nothing to say. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> Except he would not since he has 0 resistance to mind-fuck.



Itachi doesn't have resistance to will-fuck, Haki burst GG EZ.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Also, Itachi's not putting Kata into a coma.


If he gets hit by Tsukuyomi..yeah he's getting into a coma.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Irrelevant, because they have acces to things that directly put them out of the genjutsu.


No they don't. Those "things" as you called them never got anyone out of a mindufck. so no.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Let's say, there's a mindfuck that can be broken by willpower, and let's say that GL's don't have mindfuck resistance(Which they do, but let's pretend they don't). If said willpower-weak mindfuck were cast in a GL's mind, the GL would be able to break out of it because they have a way to use what it takes to get out of the damn mindfuck. Same here, Kata doesn't need mindfuck resistance because he has something(CoO) that actually can help him break out of this mindfuck.


No let's not say anything. Unless you have feats of resistance you are not dealing with mindfuck. It;s that simple. Again burden of proof is on you and you have none. All you're doing is spewing non-sense that never happened.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Are you talking about this fight or in general


Both.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> It might be, it might not, but Itachi would have to know that none of his powers except for the sword would work on Kata. Not to mention that each and every ocular jutsu Itachi uses, drains Itachi himself. Outlasting Itachi while being under a genjutsu isn't really hard, the dude's a sucker for stamina.


Ten minutes is plenty time for a MHS character to unload all his arsenal on someone else.Also, another member just told you that genjutsu can and works longer than 10 minutes so idk why you're insinting on this tangent.
As for the second part..it really depends on the version.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Not killing damage, "making you go crazy" is very debatable. The damage done to Kakashi was PSYCHOLOGICAL, not physiologica


And it had killing potential. That's all that matters. Also, Itachi killed one member of his clan with Tsukuyomi in one of the novels so there you go.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Who's to say that a guy that has powers based on willpower would be affected by something that makes you damaged in your psiqué ? The guy also has a power that literally means he has "a king's will". Not only Kata can break out of tsukuyomi by having CoO, the effects wouldn't even be severe since he has CoC.


Again, there's no proof so it might as  well be a NLF.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Was that irony or are you agreeing with me


>IMplying.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> n case of irony: I'd like to remind you that it was a crow in which he had implanted Shisui's sharingan to snap him out of Edo


A crow that belonged to Itachi since he was the one who shoved it down Nardo's throat in the first place.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Do you read the manga ?


I did..apparently you didn't or are really dishonest since you missed the part where Itachi specifically programs it to be used in accordance to how Itachi wants.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> In case you're actually agreeing with me, then I have nothing to say.


Stop being dishonest.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Itachi doesn't have resistance to will-fuck, Haki burst GG EZ.


Ok...never said he had but whatever.


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## Keishin (Feb 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> First and foremost: Itachi is in the losing end of ANY stat. DC, Dura, Stamina, Speed.
> 
> Second: Itachi does not get scaled in DC/Dura from Rock Lee or from anyone in the war or after the war, that's simply idiotic, not only the feat was performed later after a obvious power surge in Nardo, it was performed by a guy that excels in areas Itachi completely DOES NOT. Let me take an example for you: Crocodile was a Shichibukai, a position of power that is relevant to the manga to this day and we know that he even fought WB and that WB pirates(I think Marco mentioned some shit about defending WB from Crocodile's assault but Luffy was faster) even acknowledged him as a threat. BUT THE GUY IS ONLY TOWN LEVEL. If we scale back to him being a shichibukai, and scale back the fact that he should've been stronger, then we end up in a loop where Luffy from Alabasta should be scaled ot high level feats in One Piece. It is just retarded. That's why chronology is a thing in the manga. Every fight the stakes get higher, in (almost) every NEW fight the OLDER fight is now outdated save something on the plot(Like, losing your powers, etc). It's SIMPLE STORY PROGRESSION.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure the argument for Itachi beating anyone is that he seals his opponent with totsuka blade. Despite the fact that it does nothing if it's unable to pierce the opponent.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> If he gets hit by Tsukuyomi..yeah he's getting into a coma.



In a coma by _*psychological damage, something the character should have endurance to ?
*_
*


TYPE-Rey said:



			No they don't. Those "things" as you called them never got anyone out of a mindufck. so no.
		
Click to expand...

*
Uuuuh it got Sakura, Shikamaru, Jinchuriki, Sasuke, need I go further ?



TYPE-Rey said:


> No let's not say anything. Unless you have feats of resistance you are not dealing with mindfuck. It;s that simple. Again burden of proof is on you and you have none. All you're doing is spewing non-sense that never happened.



It's a simple deduction. And burden of proof is on me to prove exactly what ? Genjutsu has it's flaws(I listed them in my first post), Katakuri has means to reach and exploit those flaws. Logical conclusion: Katakuri can get out of genjutsu. Now, what do exactly do I have to prove ?



TYPE-Rey said:


> Ten minutes is plenty time for a MHS character to unload all his arsenal on someone else.Also, another member just told you that genjutsu can and works longer than 10 minutes so idk why you're insinting on this tangent.



I'm not, I specifically said that if other than sealing Kata, WHICH ITACHI CAN, Itachi has no way to deal damage. I know that if Kata falls into a coma, Itachi has time to do that.



TYPE-Rey said:


> And it had killing potential. That's all that matters. Also, Itachi killed one member of his clan with Tsukuyomi in one of the novels so there you go.



By dealing a mind-break ... Into literally fodder.



TYPE-Rey said:


> Again, there's no proof so it might as well be a NLF.



> The attack is directly on the mind
> Kata has a strong mind
> " No proof"
> " NLF"

Sure, makes sense.



TYPE-Rey said:


> A crow that belonged to Itachi since he was the one who shoved it down Nardo's throat in the first place.



Yeah, it belonged to Itachi . BelongED to Itachi. Are you saying that in Itachi's standard equipment there is " crow with Shisui's eyes" ? AFAIK he has never summoned in mid battle, just if Naruto is near ...



TYPE-Rey said:


> I did..apparently you didn't or are really dishonest since you missed the part where Itachi specifically programs it to be used in accordance to how Itachi wants.



Yeah, it is still either inside Naruto or has been used, and Itachi couldn't summon out.



TYPE-Rey said:


> Ok...never said he had but whatever.



Yes, you said. "No resistance to mindfuck, so gets mindfucked" EVEN THOUGH THE CHARACTER IN QUESTION HAS MEANS OF ACHIEVING THE WEAK SPOTS OF SAID MINDFUCK. So, in your own logic, Itachi, who doesn't posses "will fuck resistance", is getting will fucked even though it only worked in fodders, because you quoted an incident where Itachi killed a fodder with Tsukuyomi, SO IT MUST WORK ON KATAKURI, RIGHT ?



> There are several options to combat genjutsu:
> 
> 
> A victim's chakra flow, if disrupted enough, can break the caster's influence. This "genjutsu dissipation" (幻術解, _Genjutsu Kai_) can be done by the victim themselves, (assuming they realise they're under a genjutsu's influence) or an ally who emits chakra into them;[6]  who have formed a good relationship with their  prefer the latter method whenever they need it.[7]
> ...



Edit: 





Keishin said:


> I'm pretty sure the argument for Itachi beating anyone is that he seals his opponent with totsuka blade. Despite the fact that it does nothing if it's unable to pierce the opponent.



True ... I had forgotten about that ... So, Itachi can't even put Kata down for good even if Kata WAS standing there for three days.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> In a coma by _*psychological damage, something the character should have endurance to ?*_


Dude , what ?


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Uuuuh it got Sakura, Shikamaru, Jinchuriki, Sasuke, need I go further ?


And still no showing for Katakuri. How nice.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> It's a simple deduction. And burden of proof is on me to prove exactly what ? Genjutsu has it's flaws(I listed them in my first post), Katakuri has means to reach and exploit those flaws. Logical conclusion: Katakuri can get out of genjutsu. Now, what do exactly do I have to prove ?


That what you say is true  and since there's no instance where that happened ..you can't.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> I'm not, I specifically said that if other than sealing Kata, WHICH ITACHI CAN, Itachi has no way to deal damage. I know that if Kata falls into a coma, Itachi has time to do that.


Pretty sure Yasaka has the firepower to hurt Kata.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> By dealing a mind-break ... Into literally fodder.


Killing means killing ...stop arguing semathics with me. ALso that fodder had training since day one for breaking out of genjutsu + sharingan which grants additional resistance. More impressive than Katakuri's lack of feats.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> > The attack is directly on the mind
> > Kata has a strong mind
> > " No proof"
> > " NLF"
> ...


Makes perfect sense since you have 0 proofof what you are saying.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Yeah, it belonged to Itachi . BelongED to Itachi. Are you saying that in Itachi's standard equipment there is " crow with Shisui's eyes" ? AFAIK he has never summoned in mid battle, just if Naruto is near ...


Since characters start battles at their strongest and with everything they have unless specified otherwise and since the Koto eye is an extremely important memento that his best friend left for him before he died..absolutely.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Yeah, it is still either inside Naruto or has been used, and Itachi couldn't summon out.


This makes no sense.


*Pain that is not caused by the genjutsu can bring victims back to their senses.[8] *Katakuri can control mochi to try and slap him away from the genjutsu*
*This dishonesy is starting to piss me off. Not only that Katakuri would have to know about genjutsu specifically but this pain shit wouldn't even work as evidenced by Kurenai trying to inflict pain on herself to get out of Itachi's genjutsu but couldn't.

If a caster's vision is obstructed, such as by the , that at least prevents the use of ocular genjutsu.[9] *Kata is too fast, has means to make the eye contact impossible, etc
Again with the dishonesty. This constitutes a condition to AVOID getting caught in a genjutstu and for getting out of it while being AFFECTED by it.

Possessing a  renders one largely invulnerable to genjutsu as their acute vision allows them to recognise its flaws and influence. They can also free others from genjutsu by inserting themselves into the opponent's illusion and release it.[10]* Kata is a CoO specialist, I don't need to say further than that, right ?
So you're equating CoO with Sharingan right ? Yeah...ok .

*


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 18, 2018)

Bruh people thought Itachi was controlling ninja’s to attack each other during the war. Genjutsu isnt just some “illusion”, it can hypnotize people, knock them out, or directly control their actions and movements. Fuck outta here

Also crow clones, shadow clones, and Amaterasu can easily give Itachi an opening for genjutsu


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

for fuck sake...a fodder tier genjutsu knocked out an entire stadium of people familiar with how genjutsu works and how to dispell it. That alone is >>> OP's 0 feats and instances dealing with that shit.Just illusions my ass.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## B Rabbit (Feb 18, 2018)

The standard is bloodlust anyways so before Itachi can even think he'll be eating a peerless donut.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Dude , what ?





TYPE-Rey said:


> And still no showing for Katakuri. How nice.



You're asking me to show Katakuri resisting genjutsu, something that doesn't even exist in his universe. I showed you that he has abilities that people in Nardoverse use to break out of genjutsu . You don't understand WHAT ?



TYPE-Rey said:


> That what you say is true and since there's no instance where that happened ..you can't.



Exacty "what happened"? People in Nardoverse getting out of genjutsu in the ways that I quoted ? Yes, there IS. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> Pretty sure Yasaka has the firepower to hurt Kata.



Fair, forgot about that. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> Killing means killing



No, IT DOESN'T. I'm not arguing semanthics, I'm arguing MECHANICS. The mechanics of it happens to be one in which Katakuri would have durability to it . Oh, and again, FODDER killing. If you wanna argue whatever Itachi can do to a fodder, he can do to Kata, then we might aswell say that Itachi is put down in the first CoC burst. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> Makes perfect sense since you have 0 proofof what you are saying.



I have 0 proof that Katakuri has a strong mind ? Even though "will" is a component of the mind and Katakuri is basically a top tier in will ? 

Makes sense, sure. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> Since characters start battles at their strongest and with everything they have unless specified otherwise and since the Koto eye is an extremely important memento that his best friend left for him before he died..absolutely.



Except Itachi never used in-battle and except that he never used for battle purposes and except that in-universe it's locked away inside another person ? That's the same as if I create a thread that has " Madara vs Katakuri " Madara will start out with Kyuubi.



TYPE-Rey said:


> This dishonesy is starting to piss me off. Not only that Katakuri would have to know about genjutsu specifically but this pain shit wouldn't even work as evidenced by Kurenai trying to inflict pain on herself to get out of Itachi's genjutsu but couldn't.



Except that dealing yourself a few slaps to see if you are hallucinating is common even in the real world.



TYPE-Rey said:


> *Again with the dishonesty. This constitutes a condition to AVOID getting caught in a genjutstu and for getting out of it while being AFFECTED by it.*



Yes, it does. So what ? It's not like Katakuri is going to let himself wide open, even more if he sees in his future he completely still and paralyzed or something like that, he's gonna raise some shields, turn into mochi, etc, etc. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> *
> So you're equating CoO with Sharingan right ? Yeah...ok .
> *





TYPE-Rey said:


> acute vision allows them to recognise its flaws and influence.



You are saying CoO does not have observational abilities(Including even seeing the fucking future) ? 



OneSimpleAnime said:


> Bruh people thought Itachi was controlling ninja’s to attack each other during the war. Genjutsu isnt just some “illusion”, it can hypnotize people, knock them out, or directly control their actions and movements. Fuck outta here





TYPE-Rey said:


> for fuck sake...a fodder tier genjutsu knocked out an entire stadium of people familiar with how genjutsu works and how to dispell it. That alone is >>> OP's 0 feats and instances dealing with that shit.Just illusions my ass.




Yeah except for named characters ... Like low tiers like Sakura and Shikamaru. Pre Timeskip. Also, again, I never said it was just illusion, I said, and I quote,




Mr. Black Leg said:


> You use it to get your opponent dizzy, confused, create oppenings, you don't deal damage.



I said it is an ability made to create an oppenning so you can deal damage to your opponent. Other than Tsukuyomi killing fodder(By mental attack, NOT by physical damage, making it very clear, again, it is not a matter of "killing is killing", mechanics matter) and making Kakashi fucked up(Again, mental, not physical), it doesn't deal damage. Controlling your opponent does not get him killed. Making them sleep does not get him killed. Making him stationary thinking that he is catching butterflies, does not get him killed. The point I was making was that it is a supplementary technique and simply using getting by it, won't kill you .



OneSimpleAnime said:


> Also crow clones, shadow clones, and Amaterasu can easily give Itachi an opening for genjutsu



First and foremost: Itachi uses GENJUTSUS to create oppennings, that's the modus operandi and that's what I was saying.  Not to mention that using façades on a guy that can see the future is really ... Dumb and useless. 

Now, now, the discussion about the genjutsu is one that is also useless, since, again, Kata can and will one shot Itachi.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 18, 2018)

Why are people still debating this genjutsu bullshit ? Itachi ain't landing one on Kata. He turns to goo and starts raining galactic donuts on Itachi's face.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> The standard is bloodlust anyways so before Itachi can even think he'll be eating a peerless donut.


No it isn't. If not specified a character starts out IC.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> You're asking me to show Katakuri resisting genjutsu, something that doesn't even exist in his universe


Are you literally retarded ? I'm not asking you to show me Katakuri resisting genjutsu specifically, i'm asking you to show me Katakuri resisting mind-fuck period.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Exacty "what happened"? People in Nardoverse getting out of genjutsu in the ways that I quoted ? Yes, there IS.


Are you playing stupid on purpose ? 


Mr. Black Leg said:


> No, IT DOESN'T


Yes it does.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> The mechanics of it happens to be one in which Katakuri would have durability to it


Except he doesn't. Character with way better durability were killed or almost killed.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> If you wanna argue whatever Itachi can do to a fodder, he can do to Kata, then we might aswell say that Itachi is put down in the first CoC burst.


I can an i do . It;s up to you to prove me otherwise with feats. Feats which you lack.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> I have 0 proof that Katakuri has a strong mind ? Even though "will" is a component of the mind and Katakuri is basically a top tier in will ?
> 
> Makes sense, sure.


.> trying to quantify and tier "will" . Oh boy...


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Except Itachi never used in-battle and except that he never used for battle purposes and except that in-universe it's locked away inside another person ? That's the same as if I create a thread that has " Madara vs Katakuri " Madara will start out with Kyuubi.


All of this shit is irrelevant. Plot-kai doesn't stop a character from using an ability in battledome setting.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Except that dealing yourself a few slaps to see if you are hallucinating is common even in the real world.


Yes.. and Kurenai did something simmilar to that and failed to get out of Itachi's genjutsu. 


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Yes, it does. So what ? It's not like Katakuri is going to let himself wide open, even more if he sees in his future he completely still and paralyzed or something like that, he's gonna raise some shields, turn into mochi, etc, etc.


That's besside the point. If Katakuri is able to somehow prevent himself from falling into a Genjutsu ...good for him..but that's not what i;m debating here. 


Mr. Black Leg said:


> You are saying CoO does not have observational abilities(Including even seeing the fucking future) ?


No , i'm saying that you are trying to equate Sharingan to CoO . Observational abilities don't magically grant you the power to snap out of genjutsu .


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Yeah except for named characters ... Like low tiers like Sakura and Shikamaru


That's a feat for them and not a feat against genjutsu in general. Again these people train from day 1 in the Acadamy to dispell genjutsu. 


Mr. Black Leg said:


> First and foremost: Itachi uses GENJUTSUS to create oppennings, that's the modus operandi and that's what I was saying. Not to mention that using façades on a guy that can see the future is really ... Dumb and useless


Factually and stupidly untrue. Itachi uses Genjutsu to win his fights before they even begin. Only if he can't win via Genjutsu , he goes for other shit.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Now, now, the discussion about the genjutsu is one that is also useless, since, again, Kata can and will one shot Itachi.


> Genjutsu 
>useless
>Tried really hard to write entire essays where he shat on it and downplay it.

Some people should not be allowed to debate.. i swear to god.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Why are people still debating this genjutsu bullshit


Because some of you fuckers are trying really hard to downplay it and it won't stand.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> No it isn't. If not specified a character starts out IC.


Wrong Bloodlust has always been the default if not stated otherwise to remove a lot of fluff that could come into play due to cis etc.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> Wrong Bloodlust has always been the default if not stated otherwise to remove a lot of fluff that could come into play due to cis etc.


That's what i thought too untill i made some threads and got corrected..so nah.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> That's what i thought too untill i made some threads and got corrected..so nah.


Then their wrong unless changes has been made to the general assumptions.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> Then their wrong unless changes has been made to the general assumptions.


I mean if you go by the wiki..that's outdated as fuck but to be sure.. @iwandesu @LazyWaka ..how is it ? What's the general mindset of a char when no specifications are made ?


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## Foxve (Feb 18, 2018)

How the fuck has this gotten to 7 pages? 

Katakuri's getting genjutsued. He has no mind-fuck resistance feats. Also, Itachi's genjutsu is easily some of the best in the series. Second only to IT.

That fodder level version used in the chunin exam that was dispelled by some like Sakura don't even compare to his. Naruto tried the same thing in his encounter against that Itachi clone right after the time-skip it didn't do shit.

The most logical thing Katakuri would do after "seeing" himself put in a genjutsu would be to get away from the opponent by jumping back while keeping an eye on him not to hide underground.

If this is IC it ends the same.


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## Kingdom Come (Feb 18, 2018)

Itachi gets destroyed

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 18, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> No it isn't. If not specified a character starts out IC.







> *Blood Lust:*
> It should be on, unless otherwise stated.
> 
> One would think that if you take two characters and pit them against each other, they would try to end it as quickly and brutally as possible.
> ...




Do you ever tire of being wrong all of the damn time ? It is literally fixed. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> All of this shit is irrelevant. Plot-kai doesn't stop a character from using an ability in battledome setting.



"Plot-kai" ? THE GUY DOESN'T EVEN POSSES SAID "ITEM" ! It's like saying " But DBS Goku will definetly pull out his power pole" or saying " But EoS Sasuke will summon Manda ".They don't have it since many, many chapters ago. Unless specified, he should not have the fucking crow. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> .> trying to quantify and tier "will" . Oh boy...



I'm not trying to quantify it you dipshit, I'm saying that his will is out of the ordinary, which, you know, is the description of CoC. 



TYPE-Rey said:


> Except he doesn't. Character with way better durability were killed or almost killed.



Your argument pretty much is "lol genjutsu". I feel that the only appropriated response is " lol haki crush". "He can do it to fodders, therefore he can do it to anyone ". 



TYPE-Rey said:


> > Genjutsu
> >useless
> >Tried really hard to write entire essays where he shat on it and downplay it.
> 
> Some people should not be allowed to debate.. i swear to god.



Do you know how to read ? Do you ? I said " the _*discussion*_ about the genjutsu is one that is also useless ". You really are dumb . And the irony in the guy that says that one shouldn't be allowed to debate when he himself doesn't even read properly.

You don't know the OBD basics and engages in 2009 level "law genjutsu", oh and also doesn't know how to read, apparently. I'm really done here. Kata blitz and one shots before Itachi can try to do something, that is why the discussion is irrelevant.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 18, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Do you ever tire of being wrong all of the damn time ? It is literally fixed.


Nice projection. As i have said that shit is oudated as fuck. I got corrected a bunch of time for assuming that bloodlust is the standard mentality..so there you go.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> "Plot-kai" ? THE GUY DOESN'T EVEN POSSES SAID "ITEM" ! It's like saying " But DBS Goku will definetly pull out his power pole" or saying " But EoS Sasuke will summon Manda ".They don't have it since many, many chapters ago. Unless specified, he should not have the fucking crow.


One of his familiar does..so yeah..nice try. 


Mr. Black Leg said:


> I'm not trying to quantify it you dipshit, I'm saying that his will is out of the ordinary, which, you know, is the description of CoC.


>Not trying to quantify will
>Literally classifies will as "top tier"
You can't be this stupid.
Also like i said ... having powers of observation or whatever the fuck doesn't give you the abiility to snap out of genjutsu so it's irrelevant either way.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Your argument pretty much is "lol genjutsu


If that;s all that you gathered from this debate..idk what to tell you.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> I feel that the only appropriated response is " lol haki crush". "He can do it to fodders, therefore he can do it to anyone ".


Fuck off with this straw-man bullshit.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Do you know how to read ? Do you ? I said " the _*discussion*_ about the genjutsu is one that is also useless


And i said that if the discussion about genjutsu was indeed useless..you wouldn't have tried to downplay it in essays. You are even contradicting yourself.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> You don't know the OBD basics


Says the guy who doesn;t know how burden of proof actually works.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> law genjutsu"


It's ok..that;s just what your mind can comprehend at the moment.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> oh and also doesn't know how to read, apparently


>Implying.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> I'm really done here


Good..run away like the little bitch you are. It;s not like you actaully made any sensible argument or brought proof of your bullshit.


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Kata blitz and one shots before Itachi can try to do something, that is why the discussion is irrelevant


You keep saying that..but you are really determined to downaply genjutsu and prove me wrong. I don;t know what to belive anymore....


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## xenos5 (Feb 19, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> >Not trying to quantify will
> >Literally classifies will as "top tier"
> You can't be this stupid.
> Also like i said ... having powers of observation or whatever the fuck doesn't give you the abiility to snap out of genjutsu so it's irrelevant either way.



You don't seem to understand. He was referring to Conqueror's Haki. Which is essentially raw will power so powerful it knocks out people around the user that have weaker willpower.



Katakuri has it, and we could see it clashing with Luffy's conqueror's haki and everyone else in the mirror world falling unconscious as a result as well as the mirror world surroundings getting damaged from it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 19, 2018)

Until CoC knocks out someone of worth you can't really use it against someone of Itachi's caliber. He has incredible will power given what he did for Konoha. Not that it matters, galactic donuts all day every day.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 19, 2018)

Seriously Itachi is going to lose more times than not, but he has a shot at landing Kata in genjutsu which nets him a win. Katakuri can do nothing when he is caught in it and hes precog isnt going to help him with 99% of Itachi’s genjutsus


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## Foxve (Feb 19, 2018)

Is Katakuri's Galactic donuts and block mochi fast enough to blitz Itachi from the starting distance while the Sharingan is active as soon as the fight starts?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 19, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Is Katakuri's Galactic donuts and block mochi fast enough to blitz Itachi from the starting distance while the Sharingan is active as soon as the fight starts?


Not fast enough to outright blitz, but fast enough that it will most likely kill Itachi


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 19, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Is Katakuri's Galactic donuts and block mochi fast enough to blitz Itachi from the starting distance while the Sharingan is active as soon as the fight starts?



Kata can use his awakening to manipulate the environment to his liking. He is a quasi logia (Oda calls him a special paramecia because mochi doesn't occur naturally in nature) can turn into goo and use the ground to get the drop on his opponents. He used it to land a hit on Luffy while out maneuvering Luffy's accelerating snake man fist which is so fast it's making Kata have difficulty dodging the hits even with foresight and being incredibly fast himself.



Top right panel for an example of how it could be used.


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## Foxve (Feb 19, 2018)

Honestly Itachi is outclassed physically his body isn't taking hits from Katakuri. He needs to activate Susanoo as soon as he can. Though he's more likely to go with genjutsu right off the bat. 

I can easily see Katakuri getting caught in one as soon as the fight starts. At the beginning of the fight Itachi's going to go for genjutsu that Katakuri would easily get caught in. The question is can Itachi dodge or block (with Susanoo) the one or 2 Galactic Donuts or block mochi thrown at him to do anything? 

I mostly see him catching Katakuri in a genjutsu, however if he can't dodge or block the Galactic donut or block mochi that was thrown his way before Katakuri was caught in genjutsu, the Katakuri still wins even though he's in an illusion.......


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 19, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Honestly Itachi is outclassed physically his body isn't taking hits from Katakuri. He needs to activate Susanoo as soon as he can. Though he's more likely to go with genjutsu right off the bat.
> 
> I can easily see Katakuri getting caught in one as soon as the fight starts. At the beginning of the fight Itachi's going to go for genjutsu that Katakuri would easily get caught in. The question is can Itachi dodge or block (with Susanoo) the one or 2 Galactic Donuts or block mochi thrown at him to do anything?
> 
> I mostly see him catching Katakuri in a genjutsu, however if he can't dodge or block the Galactic donut or block mochi that was thrown his way before Katakuri was caught in genjutsu, the Katakuri still wins even though he's in an illusion.......



Kata doesn't have to open with an attack, he can meld into the ground rendering genjutsu moot. Susanno is not gonna help either thanks to awakening.


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## Foxve (Feb 19, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Kata can use his awakening to manipulate the environment to his liking. He is a quasi logia (Oda calls him a special paramecia because mochi doesn't occur naturally in nature) can turn into goo and use the ground to get the drop on his opponents. He used it to land a hit on Luffy while out maneuvering Luffy's accelerating snake man fist which is so fast it's making Kata have difficulty dodging the hits even with foresight and being incredibly fast himself.
> 
> 
> 
> Top right panel for an example of how it could be used.



Yeah.... If Katakuri goes for that attack right off the bat, Itachi's getting fucked....


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## El Hermano (Feb 19, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Yeah.... If Katakuri goes for that attack right off the bat, Itachi's getting fucked....


If he sees a future where he's supposedly captured he probably will use it right off the bat.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 19, 2018)

Itachi takes this


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## Kingdom Come (Feb 19, 2018)

Katakuri destroys


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 19, 2018)

Itachi blitz and destroys him

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Foxve (Feb 19, 2018)

FlyingPan said:


> If he sees a future where he's supposedly captured he probably will use it right off the bat.



Actually, if Katakuri uses Coo instead of attacking right at the beginning and sees himself standing still or in an illusion, he'd probably go for a ranged attack like Galactic Donuts or block mochi to keep distance between him and his opponent since he has no idea how it happened. He'd have no idea of that his spinning attack will be the best bet until he can figure out how Itachi's doing it. 



OMGMAN said:


> Itachi blitz and destroys him



Itachi isn't fast enough to blitz. If anything he'd get blitzed if the starting distance was closer.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 19, 2018)

nothing would stop Itachi from using a clone to prevent him from being blitz

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 19, 2018)

Ignore OMGMAN. He's one of Red hero's dupes from Millennium Forums.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2 | Disagree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 19, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Ignore OMGMAN. He's one of Red hero's dupes from Millennium Forums.



And it's funny how he never mentioned anything about "clones" with the Akatsuki vs. Spriggan 12 thread, yet does so when it is Naruto vs another series.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 19, 2018)

no one said that he can't use it, besides Dimaria stops time

Reactions: Funny 1


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## John Wayne (Feb 19, 2018)

Uh yeah no way is Itachi somehow pulling a clone off versus a faster char with Precog.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 19, 2018)

I would not say that, They are relatively even, and nothing is stopping me talk to you from using his OP powers

Reactions: Funny 1


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## El Hermano (Feb 19, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> nothing would stop Itachi from using a clone to prevent him from being blitz


Seems like nothing short of a ban would stop you from spreading your stupidity in this forum.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 19, 2018)

nothing wrong with utilizing Itachi's capabilities.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blαck (Feb 19, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> I would not say that, They are relatively even, and nothing is stopping me talk to you from using his OP powers


In your opinion what are itachi's stats?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 19, 2018)

Island level at his height


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 19, 2018)

Blαck said:


> In your opinion what are itachi's stats?


At least town level casual shit, Susanoo is city-island level and Amatersu is island level. Physically he is probably town-small city level and MHS


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## Keishin (Feb 19, 2018)

His susanoo was blown up by Kirin lmao
Left him bleeding face to the ground

Reactions: Funny 1


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## El Hermano (Feb 19, 2018)

Blαck said:


> In your opinion what are itachi's stats?



Please don't go down that road. We have suffered enough of his bullshit for 10 lifetimes.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 19, 2018)

Keishin said:


> His susanoo was blown up by Kirin lmao
> Left him bleeding face to the ground


We dont even know which stage it was

Unless you think his Fully Armored Sus is massively inferior to Amatersu


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## Keishin (Feb 19, 2018)

Amaterasu is easy to get rid of it's Bleed over time type of ability. It's darius doing a penta kill after death.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 19, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Amaterasu is easy to get rid of it's Bleed over time type of ability. It's darius doing a penta kill after death.


It ko’d Nagato’s dog in a panel or two that FRS failed to. It is strong


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 19, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> It ko’d Nagato’s dog in a panel or two that FRS failed to. It is strong



It also failed to burn leafs, rocks, a samurai, Karin, etc. Island level my ass.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 19, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> It also failed to burn leafs, rocks, a samurai, Karin, etc. Island level my ass.


Ah yes, the low ends. Not like it didnt fuck the shit out of Hachibi


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 19, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Ah yes, the low ends. Not like it didnt fuck the shit out of Hachibi



Yep, it burned him slowly.


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## Masterblack06 (Feb 19, 2018)

So i guess the general consensus is that Dogtooth wins 7/10, most wins coming from itachi getting mochi'd with the off chance he gets genjutsu'd? Is that correct?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 19, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Yep, it burned him slowly.


Hes country level. Slow burning him is still an at least island level feat


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## Foxve (Feb 19, 2018)

Pretty much. Most of the pages are about the genjutsu debate. 

Itachi would have a better chance if it was IC as Katakuri would start by trying to hit him with jelly beans.....


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## Masterblack06 (Feb 19, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Pretty much. Most of the pages are about the genjutsu debate.
> 
> Itachi would have a better chance if it was IC as Katakuri would start by trying to hit him with jelly beans.....


You never know that might work. Jelly Beans are delicious. Itachi might get hungry

Reactions: Funny 1


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## LazyWaka (Feb 19, 2018)

People need to stop bringing up the Hachibi moment. His SUBSTITUTION is what was burnt down. The actual Hachibi suffered no major injury's from it. we see in the war arc that heavy injury to Bee while in Bijuu mode carries over to Hachibi himself, and aside from sacrificing a limb to punk sasuke he didn't have a scratch on him after the fight, meaning amaterasu did absolute dick to him.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 19, 2018)

LazyWaka said:


> People need to stop bringing up the Hachibi moment. His SUBSTITUTION is what was burnt down. The actual Hachibi suffered no major injury's from it (we see in the war arc that heavy injury to Bee while in Bijuu mode carries over to Hachibi himself, and aside from sacrificing a limb to punk sasuke he didn't have a scratch on him after the fight, meaning amaterasu did absolute dick to him..)


We dont see him for a while after the fight though afaik, and even then he was yelling in pain prior to substitution. Unless youre saying he was a substitution for the whole fight?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 19, 2018)

I think it was his substitute when his tail detached


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## Alita (Feb 19, 2018)

All itachi literally has to do is look or point in kata's general direction to win. If kata had full knowledge on itachi's abilities Vermilion's scenario would be more believable but without it I see him getting genjutsued pretty easily. 



Vermilion Kn said:


> It also failed to burn leafs, rocks, a samurai, Karin, etc. Island level my ass.



Because we totally judge feats by their worst showing am I right?

It harmed nagato's 3 headed dog which withstood a FRS so yes amateratsu is island+ level.


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## xenos5 (Feb 19, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> All itachi literally has to do is look or point in kata's general direction to win. If kata had full knowledge on itachi's abilities Vermilion's scenario would be more believable but without it I see him getting genjutsued pretty easily.



Itachi is not easily getting genjutsu off on someone who can see the future and will know it is coming 

It is really not hard to come up with the simple strategy of closing your eyes, and Katakuri is extremely intelligent (he coordinates all of Big Mom's forces very well and takes nothing to chance) so I see no reason for him to not come up with that simple strategy after seeing the future and either seeing himself put in a trance or seeing illusions all around him.


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## Alita (Feb 20, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Itachi is not easily getting genjutsu off on someone who can see the future and will know it is coming
> 
> It is really not hard to come up with the simple strategy of closing your eyes, and Katakuri is extremely intelligent (he coordinates all of Big Mom's forces very well and takes nothing to chance) so I see no reason for him to not come up with that simple strategy after seeing the future and either seeing himself put in a trance or seeing illusions all around him.



It's highly debatable as to whether he can even "see" a mindfuck coming ahead of time. It's completely different from doging a direct attack like a punch or a kick. And itachi doesn't even have to move to use it. Even if he knew it was a illusion he has no idea how it is triggered.

Also I just realized that kata is bloodlusted here and we saw when he was bloodlusted he couldn't use his pre cog anywhere near as good since luffy got numerous hits on him when previously he could not get even one when he was in character. Which would just make this easier for itachi.


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## Alita (Feb 20, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> There are 2 ways for this match.
> Itachi uses genjutsu but it is useless because kata predicted his ass and then one shots him With a mochi punch.
> Also no, itachi doesnt scalle to 6th path Rock Lee.
> Even Kisame clone is far more durable than itachi and he got absolutely wasted by morning peacock.
> Also kisame himself which is absurdly above itachi on endurance got almost killed by a single hirudora



Kisame wasn't wasted by MP only his sharks were. Only the AT did harm to him but the fact he could tank MP means he gets the 118 megaton meteor scaling. Itachi obviously is not as durable as kisame but his susano + Shield should be since it is constantly portrayed as one of most durable things in Naruto.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 20, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Kisame wasn't wasted by MP only his sharks were. Only the AT did harm to him but the fact he could tank MP means he gets the 118 megaton meteor scaling. Itachi obviously is not as durable as kisame but his susano + Shield should be since it is constantly portrayed as one of most durable things in Naruto.


Yata Mirror is island level at least


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## Alita (Feb 20, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Yata Mirror is island level at least



Based on what?


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## raphxenon (Feb 20, 2018)

Just a question how would kata knew if he was already in the illusion if the future he saw was just itachi pointing a finger or just by looking at him, what if the future he saw was he was already in the illusion? Unless kata has prior knowledge of the genjustsu I have problems thinking of kata getting out of it if he doesn't know what triggered it or if the future he saw was he was already under the effect but seems normal to him on the very few seconds upon activation

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Keishin (Feb 20, 2018)

He would know since he'd move to blast Itachi or he'd see the illusions.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 20, 2018)

Amateratsu is a slow burning flame, if kata were to get hit by it ( not gonna happen) he can simply eject w/e is burning like the juubi did.

Also rofl at blood lusted means kata cant see the future. The only time he wavered wad after people saw his gross fish mouth scarfing down donuts and tea. Is he not blood lusted right now against Luffy?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bernkastel (Feb 20, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> It's highly debatable as to whether he can even "see" a mindfuck coming ahead of time. It's completely different from doging a direct attack like a punch or a kick. And itachi doesn't even have to move to use it. Even if he knew it was a illusion he has no idea how it is triggered.
> 
> Also I just realized that kata is bloodlusted here and we saw when he was bloodlusted he couldn't use his pre cog anywhere near as good since luffy got numerous hits on him when previously he could not get even one when he was in character. Which would just make this easier for itachi.



No Katakuri wasn't bloodlusted..he had simply lost his composure due to the fact that people saw his "ugly" face eatting donuts and drinking tea in a undignified way lying on his back( it was said that Katakuri was so cool that he never hit his back on the ground even when he was born)..he had this perfect image for everyone and it was ruined...after a while he got calm again and went back to normal.
Nothing of the sort is happening here so his CoO works perfectly fine.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 20, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> At least town level casual shit, Susanoo is city-island level and Amatersu is island level. Physically he is probably town-small city level and MHS



I would agree to the Town level but it is completely not "casual shit" . Susano'o is city in dura and island in DC, don't go down the road of "Amaterasu is island level". 

Physically, Itachi's not surpassing MCB both in DC and dura, come on man, and MHS is low end like mach 128 and only for reactions. 



Alita54 said:


> Also I just realized that kata is bloodlusted here and we saw when he was bloodlusted he couldn't



Bad argument is bad. Losing composure =/= Bloodlust



Alita54 said:


> It harmed nagato's 3 headed dog which withstood a FRS so yes amateratsu is island+ level.



The point of amaterasu working on the 3 headed dog was that it(Amaterasu) is slow acting and the 3 headed dog couldn't just multiply the damage away, as the amaterasu fire got stuck to the dog and it wouldn't matter if it tried to multiply, the fire would be there. The dog didn't tank FRS, it multiplied away. 

From the wikia, just so I can refresh your memories:



> It was modified by Pain using the , so that it can split apart, when struck, into individual dogs that can then merge back together





> Even a usually devastating attack, such as the  couldn't kill it easily, as the dog merely continued to multiply



The thing that was tricky about the dog wasn't his durability, even Gamaken was actually able to harm then if they did not multiply, and I don't think that you're suggesting that fucking Gamaken is island level. 

If you want to, I can get the scans of Jiraiya fighting it and outright saying " the tricky thing is that it keeps on multiplying even if you do damage", but really, if you can remember yourself it would be great.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 20, 2018)

There is no helping Itachi fans. 

Itachi looks at his opponents is an argument that was once used against Galactus. And Katakuri isn't even worthy enough to be his foot soldier.


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> It's highly debatable as to whether he can even "see" a mindfuck coming ahead of time. It's completely different from doging a direct attack like a punch or a kick. And itachi doesn't even have to move to use it. Even if he knew it was a illusion he has no idea how it is triggered.
> 
> Also I just realized that kata is bloodlusted here and we saw when he was bloodlusted he couldn't use his pre cog anywhere near as good since luffy got numerous hits on him when previously he could not get even one when he was in character. Which would just make this easier for itachi.



The bloodlusted condition is just meant to make opponents not hold back. It has nothing to do with anger/being pissed off. Do not try to spin it in a way completely different than how it was intended to be used in the battledome. 

There is no reason future sight would not be able to see it coming. Whether he sees himself in a trance or he sees illusions in his future, the most common response to either of those would be to close your eyes to prevent your visual sense from being manipulated.

Katakuri does not have to move to close his eyes either, and he is faster than Itachi and thus has faster reaction time.


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

raphxenon said:


> Just a question how would kata knew if he was already in the illusion if the future he saw was just itachi pointing a finger or just by looking at him, what if the future he saw was he was already in the illusion? Unless kata has prior knowledge of the genjustsu I have problems thinking of kata getting out of it if he doesn't know what triggered it or if the future he saw was he was already under the effect but seems normal to him on the very few seconds upon activation



Katakuri has faster reaction speed than Itachi as well his future sight. 

Itachi has no chance of putting Katakuri in a genjutsu before Katakuri can look into the future and react accordingly (close his eyes). 

And if you're trying to argue seeing a future with illusions in it will somehow put Katakuri in the genjutsu early, that's complete bullshit. That's never happened before.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 20, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I would agree to the Town level but it is completely not "casual shit" . Susano'o is city in dura and island in DC, don't go down the road of "Amaterasu is island level".
> 
> Physically, Itachi's not surpassing MCB both in DC and dura, come on man, and MHS is low end like mach 128 and only for reactions.
> 
> ...


Fodder Sarutobi are town level, Itachi shits on them easily. Physically Itachi clashed with B and KCM Nardo who are small city level


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## Foxve (Feb 20, 2018)

Once again when the fight starts, if Katakuri decides to use his Coo (it's bloodlusted so he may go straight for an attack instead) he's not going to just assume he has to close his eyes, the most logical step he would take without knowledge would be to jump back while keeping track of his opponent and trying to hit him with a galactic donut or block mochi. He may opt to chuck a mochi spear to.  

If he doesn't use Coo to predict the future right off the bat, then he may go for that spinning mochi attack at which point Itachi's becoming roadkill before he can do jack shit.....


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## Zern227 (Feb 20, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Once again when the fight starts, if Katakuri decides to use his Coo (it's bloodlusted so he may go straight for an attack instead) he's not going to just assume he has to close his eyes, the most logical step he would take without knowledge would be to jump back while keeping track of his opponent and trying to hit him with a galactic donut or block mochi. He may opt to chuck a mochi spear to.
> 
> If he doesn't use Coo to predict the future right off the bat, then he may go for that spinning mochi attack at which point Itachi's becoming roadkill before he can do jack shit.....


The dude uses CoO like 24/7 even outside of fights. The only time he didn't use it was because he was flustered momentarily.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Foxve (Feb 20, 2018)

Zern227 said:


> The dude uses CoO like 24/7 even outside of fights. The only time he didn't use it was because he was flustered momentarily.



I was referring to the last chapter when he fought "snakeman" Luffy. He simply dodged the first punch, then after he got hit used Coo to do a scan of his general area and saw the recoil.


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 20, 2018)

Foxve said:


> I was referring to the last chapter when he fought "snakeman" Luffy. He simply dodged the first punch, then after he got hit used Coo to do a scan of his general area and saw the recoil.




In a bloodlusted match we compare capabilities, we don't write little scenarios oh how we think the fight will happen nor do we take into account PIS . What if Itachi uses Amaterasu first ? what if he uses Susanoo first ? What if he tries to engage kata in hand to hand combat ? We can't make those arguments because we biased them to one character or the other. 

Kata is faster and stronger, can he counter Itachi's arsenal ? Yes, thread over.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Feb 20, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> There is no helping Itachi fans.
> 
> Itachi looks at his opponents is an argument that was once used against Galactus. And Katakuri isn't even worthy enough to be his foot soldier.


I blame B Rabbit for making this shit thread in the first place knowing damn well the Itachi stans were going to bring the age old instant genjutsu argument of old despite the opponent being faster it never fails.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 20, 2018)

I doubt that he is any faster than Itachi

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> I doubt that he is any faster than Itachi



Katakuri is Mach 1950 from Fujitora Meteor speed scaling. 

Unless you've got some calc result that Itachi scales to that is better, Katakuri is without a doubt faster.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 20, 2018)

Itachi managed to keep up with Bee and Naruto who were MHS+ crossing mountains in short amount of time


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> Itachi managed to keep up with Bee and Naruto who were MHS+ crossing mountains in short amount of time



List a calc result.


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## El Hermano (Feb 20, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> List a calc result.


Don't bother with him. This guy should have been banned by now.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Disagree 1


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## Zern227 (Feb 20, 2018)

Foxve said:


> I was referring to the last chapter when he fought "snakeman" Luffy. He simply dodged the first punch, then after he got hit used Coo to do a scan of his general area and saw the recoil.


He dodged what he thought would be a linear punch, since most likely in his future he just saw himself getting socked head on. Once he had knowledge of it's tendency he would be able "adjust" what he would see in the future. It doesn't matter since Itachi doesn't have anything that's able to change direction and speeding up mid flight.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 20, 2018)

xenos5,  look at where Itachi tags Naruto and Killer Bee


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> xenos5,  look at where Itachi tags Naruto and Killer Bee



Oh god, you’re linking from VBW?

Yeah, nope. That place has a deservedly trash reputation. Try to find a calc from an actually reputable source.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 20, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Oh god, you’re linking from VBW?
> 
> Yeah, nope. That place has a deservedly trash reputation. Try to find a calc from an actually reputable source.



I have seen respected people here use VSBW as sources for stats


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> I have seen respected people here use VSBW as sources for stats



Pretty sure you’re misremembering. I am not aware of any.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 20, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Pretty sure you’re misremembering. I am not aware of any.



No, pretty sure that people have used them in the past, just as VSBW used calcs from here for their stats


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> No, pretty sure that people have used them in the past, just as VSBW used calcs from here for their stats



Nah, I can not think of anyone reputable who has used them in this section.


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## Foxve (Feb 20, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> In a bloodlusted match we compare capabilities, we don't write little scenarios oh how we think the fight will happen nor do we take into account PIS . What if Itachi uses Amaterasu first ? what if he uses Susanoo first ? What if he tries to engage kata in hand to hand combat ? We can't make those arguments because we biased them to one character or the other.
> 
> Kata is faster and stronger, can he counter Itachi's arsenal ? Yes, thread over.



I thought we went with what the character was shown to use in said conditions. Itachi for example always goes for genjutsu at the beginning. Katakuri usually starts with Coo then goes for ranged attacks. 

But if that's changed now then Itachi has absolutely zero chance here. Spinning mochi wheel GG. 

Thread should be locked now. It's on the 11th page.....


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 20, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Nah, I can not think of anyone reputable who has used them in this section.


We dont use their profiles since 99% of them are outdated or jus inaccurate. Some of their calcs we have used though, but only a handful maybe

Throw enough shit at a wall and eventually itll look like the mona lisa

Reactions: Informative 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 20, 2018)

^What he said


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> ^What he said



What he said doesn't help your point at all. If 99% of profiles from there are innacurate or outdated, I would much rather have a calc from this forum presented than from there. Pretty sure there are calcs on this very forum for the speed of Naruto characters so you should be able to find something Itachi scales to (you can look in the OBD wiki comprehensive speed scale as a bunch of calc results are listed there).


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## John Wayne (Feb 20, 2018)

There's a mach 128, a mach 450 and mach 4k. 

The 4000 is God tiers while the 450 are people around the level of EMS Madara and Hashirama.


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

John Wayne said:


> There's a mach 128, a mach 450 and mach 4k.
> 
> The 4000 is God tiers while the 450 are people around the level of EMS Madara and Hashirama.



It sounds like Itachi scales to Mach 128. Good to know.

There is no way Itachi isn't getting blitzed then, considering Katakuri scales to quadruple digit mach (a little below 2k).


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

Let's see 

1950 divided by 128 is 15.2

So Katakuri is a bit more than 15x faster than Itachi from that


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 20, 2018)

Nah he scales to the 450. He kept up with B and KCM Naruto, Naruto is around as fast as his dad who is faster than Hashirama


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## John Wayne (Feb 20, 2018)

Naruto is only described as being as fast as his dad once he hits BM which is noted to be much faster than KCM, Kakashi didn't even realize it was him.

And Itachi fought against KCM.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 20, 2018)

John Wayne said:


> Naruto is only described as being as fast as his dad once he hits BM which is noted to be much faster than KCM, Kakashi didn't even realize it was him.
> 
> And Itachi fought against KCM.


No? KCM Naruto dodged V2 A just like his dad.

BM Naruto shunshin’d and knocked away bijuu dama. Hes faster than Base Minato


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## xenos5 (Feb 20, 2018)

There seems to be some debate as to what Itachi scales to (I have trouble believing he's as fast as Hashirama personally)

But just to be safe I also divided 1950 by 450 and it came out to 4.3 

So Katakuri would be 4.3x faster than Itachi if Itachi actually got the 450 scaling. Still a sizable speed difference.


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## Dr. White (Feb 20, 2018)

John Wayne said:


> Naruto is only described as being as fast as his dad once he hits BM which is noted to be much faster than KCM, Kakashi didn't even realize it was him.
> 
> And Itachi fought against KCM.


No....
A. Kcm naruto acheieved his dad's feat of dodging V2 Ei which is when he paralleled him.
B. It had nothing to do with Minato's combat or movement speed rather his reaction speed, a younger Ei even scraped minato's nose before the latter got out of the way.

BM naruto is hilariously faster than Minato, as he intercepted and deflected multiple bjuudamas


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## Alita (Feb 21, 2018)

Itachi is mach 450. Starting distance would need to be 4 meters or less for kata to blitz. It's 20 here.  



xenos5 said:


> The bloodlusted condition is just meant to make opponents not hold back. It has nothing to do with anger/being pissed off. Do not try to spin it in a way completely different than how it was intended to be used in the battledome.
> 
> There is no reason future sight would not be able to see it coming. Whether he sees himself in a trance or he sees illusions in his future, *the most common response to either of those would be to close your eyes to prevent your visual sense from being manipulated.*
> 
> Katakuri does not have to move to close his eyes either, and he is faster than Itachi and thus has faster reaction time.



Without knowledge? I highly doubt the bolded will be the first thing he does. And eye contact is not the only way genjutsu effects the foe. Part 1 kabuto who's genjutsu skill is far below itachi's knocked out a whole stadium of people at once with a genjutsu that didn't even require the victims to look in his general direction or be aware he was even there. Tayuya who's also inferior to itachi could transmit genjutsu through sound. Kurenai could use genjutsu that also required no eye contact. Hell even kin could use sound based genjutsu through her bells.

And I've always been of the impression bloodlust means you are pissed off and trying to kill opponent as quickly as possible and not of your normal rational mind.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Zern227 (Feb 21, 2018)

Yeah but we don't go around giving people techniques they've never used, just because they can use them. Like giving random people CoO or CoA just because weaker characters have used them.


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## Zern227 (Feb 21, 2018)

If he had them he should have tried them against a closed eyed Kabuto.


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## Foxve (Feb 21, 2018)

Kabuto had his eyes closed during his fight with the Uchiha Bros? I need to reread then I don't remember that.....


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## shade0180 (Feb 21, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Kabuto had his eyes closed during his fight with the Uchiha Bros? I need to reread then I don't remember that.....


he did.


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## Foxve (Feb 21, 2018)

How did he cast that genjutsu on Kabuto then?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 21, 2018)

Foxve said:


> How did he cast that genjutsu on Kabuto then?



It is by physical sensation of basically any kind

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 21, 2018)

Foxve said:


> How did he cast that genjutsu on Kabuto then?



He has to take an action by the opponent and loop it based on the sensations. That is why he engaged Kabuto in close combat. Useless against Kata who can fight at range and from a hidden position.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 21, 2018)

Kata doesn't show to be hidden in a fight and it is any physical sense


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## g4snake108 (Feb 21, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Itachi is mach 450. Starting distance would need to be 4 meters or less for kata to blitz. It's 20 here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn't matter if itachi even casts the genjutsu.Unless genjutsu can also trick the observation haki,it's of no use since Observation haki in itself is kind of like a sixth sense and any kind of genjutsu is said to only affect the five basic senses-one of the reasons chakra flow alteration is effective to knock one off.

So why would genjutsu be of any use when even if kata is under a spell,he can still consciously react to and dodge itachi using COO-which is at an extraordinarily high level as it is?


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## Alita (Feb 21, 2018)

12zoro said:


> Doesn't matter if itachi even casts the genjutsu.Unless genjutsu can also trick the observation haki,it's of no use since Observation haki in itself is kind of like a sixth sense and any kind of genjutsu is said to only affect the five basic senses-one of the reasons chakra flow alteration is effective to knock one off.
> 
> So why would genjutsu be of any use when even if kata is under a spell,he can still consciously react to and dodge itachi using COO-which is at an extraordinarily high level as it is?



Because he can mindfuck you with genjutsu. Kata has no mindfuck resistance feats. Kakashi passed out after only being under effects of tsuyokomi for a very short time and would have died had he not been hospitalized for several days. We would have to assume kata would be in same condition afterwards.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 21, 2018)

1. Stop fucking saying Katakuri can get out of genjutsu when the man has 0 feats/showings/encounters with it..it's a bad NLF.
2. Sharingan has it's own limited precog (not as good as Katakuri's but still) + observational shit + a fucking ability to snap its user out of genjutsu. Never helped Kakashi or Sauce in their first encoutners with Itachi. For fuck sake ...genjutsu experts or people who trained specifically  so that they could counter Itachi's genjutsu fell for it really easily.
If and only if Katakuri falls into genjutsu..he ain't getting out of it and he ain't winning the fight.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sherlōck (Feb 21, 2018)

Sharingan pre-cog =/= Color of observation.

Not limited or any BS like that.


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## Dr. White (Feb 21, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> 1. Stop fucking saying Katakuri can get out of genjutsu when the man has 0 feats/showings/encounters with it..it's a bad NLF.
> 2. Sharingan has it's own limited precog (not as good as Katakuri's but still) + observational shit + a fucking ability to snap its user out of genjutsu. Never helped Kakashi or Sauce in their first encoutners with Itachi. For fuck sake ...genjutsu experts or people who trained specifically  so that they could counter Itachi's genjutsu fell for it really easily.
> If and only if Katakuri falls into genjutsu..he ain't getting out of it and he ain't winning the fight.


> I'm pretty sure no one said he could, just that he could fight with his COO sensing.
> Sharingan is not COO. Coo is like pre-cog, sharingan uses visual cues to predict movement and is still reliant on vision. Fujitora could legit tell cloud patterns while blind, Katakuri can see what his opponent is going to try by getting a glimpse of the future. That helps much more than sharingan
> CoC users can also likely break out in a similar fashion to Kai.

> Katakuri will still have trouble while seeing illusions but knowing what is not real and what is via COO helps alot. Tsukuyomi and hypnosis are his only troubles.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 21, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> I'm pretty sure no one said he could


Oh...but some did....


Dr. White said:


> Sharingan is not COO


Did i say it was ?


Dr. White said:


> Coo is like pre-cog, sharingan uses visual cues to predict movement and is still reliant on vision. Fujitora could legit tell cloud patterns while blind, Katakuri can see what his opponent is going to try by getting a glimpse of the future. That helps much more than sharingan


Again.. i didn't equalize Sharingan with CoO.. and i noted that Sharingan's limited precog wasn't as good as Katakuri's abbility.


Dr. White said:


> > CoC users can also likely break out in a similar fashion to Kai.


Not really..not unless they got actually do it on-pannel.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Again.. i didn't equalize Sharingan with CoO.. and i noted that Sharingan's limited precog wasn't as good as Katakuri's abbility.


Yet you said this
".genjutsu experts or people who trained specifically so that they could counter Itachi's genjutsu fell for it really easily."
If they don't have COO what does it matter?



> Not really..not unless they got actually do it on-pannel.


No, that's not how this song and dance works. Not sure how you expect them to break out of sharingan genjutsu with COO in One Piece. Kai is releasing a large sum of energy at once to break the flow of manipulative chakra manipulating the person. COC functions the same except with different intended consequences.


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## shunsui1 (Feb 22, 2018)

Off topic where do you go to make a thread about people being incompetent and not doing their jobs(asking for a friend)


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 22, 2018)

Jesus fucking christ this thread is still going ?

People arguing for Itachi are simply ignoring Katakuri's skills and just assuming that he'll fall for a genjutsu no matter what.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

It is not like Katasuki is immune to being sealed away


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 22, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> It is not like Katasuki is immune to being sealed away



*Face palm*

No one claimed that Kata is immune to genjutsu, or the sealing Susanno sword or the other SG hax. Kata has the means to outmaneuver Itachi and kill him, that is all there is to it. He has the option to use awakening to go underground and start pelting Itachi with galatic donuts. He is faster, stronger, he can manipulate the environment, he can eject parts of his body should he get hit with Amateratsu, he can attack from range, can attack from a hidden position that is why he wins not because he's going to resist genjutsu.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Yet you said this
> ".genjutsu experts or people who trained specifically so that they could counter Itachi's genjutsu fell for it really easily."
> If they don't have COO what does it matter?


To emphasize the point that people who have genjtusu training and resistance fell effortlessly to Itachi's genjutsu .


Dr. White said:


> No, that's not how this song and dance works


This is exactly how this song and dance works. You know how this shit works. To deal with haxx you need showings/feats dealing or heaving resistance to that type of haxx. Thing is Katakuri has none.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Because he can mindfuck you with genjutsu. Kata has no mindfuck resistance feats. Kakashi passed out after only being under effects of tsuyokomi for a very short time and would have died had he not been hospitalized for several days. We would have to assume kata would be in same condition afterwards.


I always assumed it was because he lost time sense and it really felt like an eternity what with the genjutsu did? Assuming katakuri's OH works,he wouldn't fall like that would he? Even if he did-itachi still has to contend with katakuri trying to attack him since he can still sense the "real" version? The only reason genjutsu works is because it affects all the senses and traps the user in an illusion.Kata's OO is another sense which is not going to be affected,so  wouldn't you need to have proof/feats to show itachi's genjutsu will work on such users?

EDIT-
A real simple example of why you would need to show proof is because if a naruto character closes his eyes,itachi cannot "cast" his genjutsu since the opponent's ability to see cannot be cast under an illusion.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

Whether it be from a distance or not doesn’t mean that Itachi isn’t going to get harmed by kata, Itachi has better hax


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> To emphasize the point that people who have genjtusu training and resistance fell effortlessly to Itachi's genjutsu .


which would be extremely relevant if Katakuri couldn't see into the future, and sense real world objects with a six sense which genjutsu has no feats of deceiving.



> This is exactly how this song and dance works. You know how this shit works. To deal with haxx you need showings/feats dealing or heaving resistance to that type of haxx. Thing is Katakuri has none.


No it isn't. You're arguing he needs specific defenses against itachi's specific mind manipulation which is bullshit. You are completely ignoring how the specifics of their ability mechanisms will interact, which is not how the song and dance goes. 

Once again read what people are saying. Katakuri WILL be affected by the genjutsu if he gets caught. That point is yours as he has no mindfuck resistance. What I am arguing is how Katakuri DEALS WITH, or what options he has to BREAK said hax.


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## shunsui1 (Feb 22, 2018)

@Marcelle.B your thoughts???


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## xenos5 (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> To emphasize the point that people who have genjtusu training and resistance fell effortlessly to Itachi's genjutsu .



Genjutsu is not invincible even in verse. Gai's tactic for fighting Genjutsu users is to only look at their feet and just use that to track their movements. And i'm pretty sure he's used that tactic while fighting Itachi and wasn't caught in a genjutsu due to it.

CoC (color of conqueror's haki) as Dr. White said should work like Kai works in the Narutoverse. CoC is a massive release of willpower that causes those with weaker willpower to fall unconscious in a certain radius.



TYPE-Rey said:


> This is exactly how this song and dance works. You know how this shit works. To deal with haxx you need showings/feats dealing or heaving resistance to that type of haxx. Thing is Katakuri has none.



If Itachi can even land that hax on Katakuri to begin with is a question you seem to be avoiding. It doesn't matter if it would work if it doesn't land, which it very well could end up not landing with Katakuri seeing the future (I think he would avoid Itachi's eyes if he saw a future with illusions or himself being put in a trance).

And even if it does land if Katakuri's CoO still works (which it likely would as Genjutsu has no feats of hampering futuresight) than he would know the true actions that are about to occur a few seconds into the future so he would know what to avoid and wouldn't just flail around completely distracted by the illusions.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> which would be extremely relevant if Katakuri couldn't see into the future


Granted.


Dr. White said:


> six sense which genjutsu has no feats of deceiving.


Eh..i mean there is such a thing as sensory type shinobi and Sages who can sense shit. Pretty sure Karin got genjutsu'd at one point.


Dr. White said:


> Once again read what people are saying. Katakuri WILL be affected by the genjutsu if he gets caught. That point is yours as he has no mindfuck resistance. What I am arguing is how Katakuri DEALS WITH, or what options he has to BREAK said hax.


Means to deal with...maybe ..but to break out of haxx is a thing that he needs to have feats for.


xenos5 said:


> Genjutsu is not invincible even in verse. Gai's tactic for fighting Genjutsu users is to only look at their feet and just use that to track their movements. And i'm pretty sure he's used that tactic while fighting Itachi and wasn't caught in a genjutsu due to it.


That's correct but i don;t get what your point is. That is a strategy to not get caught in the first palce..not a strategy to get out of it.I'm only arguing for a scenario where Katakuri gets caught into genjutsu.


xenos5 said:


> CoC (color of conqueror's haki) as Dr. White said should work like Kai works in the Narutoverse. CoC is a massive release of willpower that causes those with weaker willpower to fall unconscious in a certain radius.


Assuming that would be the case. how many people Kai'ed Itachi's Genjutsu again ?


xenos5 said:


> If Itachi can even land that hax on Katakuri to begin with is a question you seem to be avoiding


I'm not avoiding anything. I'm only arguing for a specific scenario. I don't give a rat's ass about the victor of this match.


xenos5 said:


> It doesn't matter if it would work if it doesn't land, which it very well could end up not landing with Katakuri seeing the future (I think he would avoid Itachi's eyes if he saw a future with illusions or himself being put in a trance).


Read above.


xenos5 said:


> And even if it does land if Katakuri's CoO still works (which it likely would as Genjutsu has no feats of hampering futuresight) than he would know the true actions that are about to occur a few seconds into the future so he would know what to avoid and wouldn't just flail around completely distracted by the illusions.


That's nice except illusions aren't the only shit his Genjutsu can do.


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## Soca (Feb 22, 2018)

shunsui1 said:


> @Marcelle.B your thoughts???


Itachi dies via jellybean. 

Seriously with his future sight there's no way he wouldn't see through itachi's fuckery and adapt to the situation. He should comfortably take this.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Eh..i mean there is such a thing as sensory type shinobi and Sages who can sense shit. Pretty sure Karin got genjutsu'd at one point.


When? and sensory ninja in Naruto and CqC is completely different. Most ninja can only sense barebones without concentration like when Fu countered Tobi. Other times they have to concentrate like Minato, or C when mid battle. 

Also Coo here allows legitimate pre-cog (katakuri has a vision of Itachi trying to use genjutsu), and sensory info coming in from legit all types of matter even stuff that isn't alive. Sensory ninja can only sense living things with chakra, bar sage mode.


> Means to deal with...maybe ..but to break out of haxx is a thing that he needs to have feats for.


And Katakuri has an ability which mechanism functions extremely similar to the same one used in the narutoverse to break out of genjutsu.


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## xenos5 (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Assuming that would be the case. how many people Kai'ed Itachi's Genjutsu again ?



The Kai of a fodder Ninja <<<<< the CoC of a high level haki user (people in a wide radius don't fall unconscious from Kai being used by a fodder ninja after all). So Katakuri's CoC could very well be much more effective than the average Kai.



TYPE-Rey said:


> That's nice except illusions aren't the only shit his Genjutsu can do.



I'm pretty sure seeing visions of the defacto/real future would make him a lot more aware/conscious than the average character under genjutsu. So if he wills his body to attack from within the illusion, his body may actually respond and instinctively attack (after all he's trained himself to instinctively dodge to the point he can transform/shift his body into mochi so well it looks like he has logia intangibility).


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## Alita (Feb 22, 2018)

You guys are also ignoring just how hard it is to break out of even regular genjutsu from itachi let alone something on the level of tsuyokomi. Naruto knew itachi could use genjutsu and knew he was in itachi's genjutsu at the beginning of shippuden and even implemented the techniques to break out of it but still could not do it without outside assistance from someone else. In yet kata who doesn't know anything about genjutsu is somehow gonna get out of something substantially more powerful and deadly in tsuyokomi? When he's never even dealt with mental manipulation before or even knows what it is or how it works? I don't think so. 



12zoro said:


> I always assumed it was because he lost time sense and it really felt like an eternity what with the genjutsu did? Assuming katakuri's OH works,he wouldn't fall like that would he? Even if he did-itachi still has to contend with katakuri trying to attack him since he can still sense the "real" version? The only reason genjutsu works is because it affects all the senses and traps the user in an illusion.Kata's OO is another sense which is not going to be affected,so  wouldn't you need to have proof/feats to show itachi's genjutsu will work on such users?
> 
> EDIT-
> A real simple example of why you would need to show proof is because if a naruto character closes his eyes,itachi cannot "cast" his genjutsu since the opponent's ability to see cannot be cast under an illusion.



Kakashi passed out due to the severe mental damage he sustained from tsuyokomi. Even if we assume if wouldn't work on his 6th sense it would still work on the other 5 and cause him to pass out like kakashi. Kata has no mindfuck resistance feats so we have no reason to assume he would be immune. Mindfuck is a form of hax which you don't get resistance to unless you have dealt with that specific hax.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 22, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Kakashi passed out due to the severe mental damage he sustained from tsuyokomi. Even if we assume if wouldn't work on his 6th sense it would still work on the other 5 and cause him to pass out like kakashi. Kata has no mindfuck resistance feats so we have no reason to assume he would be immune. Mindfuck is a form of hax which you don't get resistance to unless you have dealt with that specific hax.



Haki in One Piece, particularly Conqueror's Haki, is potent enough to overwhelm the wills of people with weaker wills and make them pass out.  I imagine that the willpower involved with Conqueror's Haki may allow Katakuri some resistance to Genjutsu.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> When?


Hell if i remember...


Dr. White said:


> and sensory ninja in Naruto and CqC is completely different. Most ninja can only sense barebones without concentration like when Fu countered Tobi. Other times they have to concentrate like Minato, or C when mid battle.


They can both be argued to function as a sixth sense.


Dr. White said:


> And Katakuri has an ability which mechanism functions extremely similar to the same one used in the narutoverse to break out of genjutsu.


And how many people Kai'ed out of Itachi's genjutsu anyway ?


xenos5 said:


> The Kai of a fodder Ninja <<<<< the CoC of a high level haki user (people in a wide radius don't fall unconscious from Kai being used by a fodder ninja after all). So Katakuri's CoC could very well be much more effective than the average Kai.


You didn't answer my question.


xenos5 said:


> I'm pretty sure seeing visions of the defacto/real future would make him a lot more aware/conscious than the average character under genjutsu


Being aware doesn't mean he won't fall for it.


xenos5 said:


> So if he wills his body to attack from within the illusion, his body may actually respond and instinctively attack (after all he's trained himself to instinctively dodge to the point he can transform/shift his body into mochi so well it looks like he has logia intangibility)


Again..illusions are not the only things that Itachi can do with Genjutsu.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 22, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Haki in One Piece, particularly Conqueror's Haki, is potent enough to overwhelm the wills of people with weaker wills and make them pass out.  I imagine that the willpower involved with Conqueror's Haki may allow Katakuri some resistance to Genjutsu.


Tsukuyomi is literally= an entire way of torture 
Kakashi didnt merely pass out.
He and sauce got hospitalized (sauce did hafe a broken arm but hey)


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## Iwandesu (Feb 22, 2018)

Karakuri still should win much more than not,tho
He can literally one shot itachi if he hits

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Iwandesu (Feb 22, 2018)

shunsui1 said:


> Off topic where do you go to make a thread about people being incompetent and not doing their jobs(asking for a friend)


Do a meta thread instead of Being a whiny prick.
Find proof of Omgman mistakes and link them.
I have received no report so far from him with anything more than he stonewalling.
Vou guys dont need to feed stonewalling trolls.
And i sure need tons of offense to ban someone Just because they are stonewalling.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> You guys are also ignoring just how hard it is to break out of even regular genjutsu from itachi let alone something on the level of tsuyokomi. Naruto knew itachi could use genjutsu and knew he was in itachi's genjutsu at the beginning of shippuden and even implemented the techniques to break out of it but still could not do it without outside assistance from someone else.


Naruto was also trash at genjutsu and learned the method from someone also self admiteedly subpar from Jiraiya. Katakuri is an expert in COO and one of the only people capable of COC.



> In yet kata who doesn't know anything about genjutsu is somehow gonna get out of something substantially more powerful and deadly in tsuyokomi?


Tsukuyomi, if landed, will do work on Katakuri. But there are two things you omit.
A.) Katakuri is many times faster than Itachi and can move some odd meters before Itachi can make eye contact and cast his genjutsu.
B.) Katakuri can foresee genjutsu being cast. Sure Itachi can gain better odds of landing it later in the fight with things like shadow clone jutsu and what not, but Kata is still many times faster, and can legit one shot ITachi with a basic finger flick.


> When he's never even dealt with mental manipulation before or even knows what it is or how it works? I don't think so.


One piece characters are MUCH more durable and pain tolerant than Naruto characters. Dofla had his organs ripped to shreds, and simply stitched them together for base level functioning and proceeded to laugh off a G2 attack to his internals.

Ace and Jinbei could fight for 3 days straight. Admirals could fight for 7. Kata is somewhere in the middle of that. He also stabbed himself in the torso with no problem due to his honor.





> Kakashi passed out due to the severe mental damage he sustained from tsuyokomi. Even if we assume if wouldn't work on his 6th sense it would still work on the other 5 and cause him to pass out like kakashi. Kata has no mindfuck resistance feats so we have no reason to assume he would be immune.


Neither did Kakashi. All mindfuck is not the same thing. Kakashi has RESISTANCE via sharingan, resistance to illusions is not the same thing as resistance towards the mental pain of going through pain for 3 days.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Hell if i remember...


So why bring it up...Cause I don't recall that...The only sensor to my recollection that was hit was Shi. And shi needs to focus to sense, and wasn't hit with illusions but a mindfuck so scary it made him comatose. Katakuri is leagues over Shi in pain tolerance/threat tolerance.


> They can both be argued to function as a sixth sense.


Ok? They aren't the same though as I just argued. Respond to those argument explicitly.


> And how many people Kai'ed out of Itachi's genjutsu anyway ?


The only non sharingan users hit on panel where Kabuto (hit with MS), Naruto (who was trash: canon), and Diedara, who was able to form a counter without any sensing or special technique. So yeah..


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Cause I don't recall that...The only sensor to my recollection that was hit was Shi. And shi needs to focus to sense, and wasn't hit with illusions but a mindfuck so scary it made him comatose. Katakuri is leagues over Shi in pain tolerance/threat tolerance.


Still  got affected by Genjutsu so ... 


Dr. White said:


> Ok? They aren't the same though as I just argued. Respond to those argument explicitly.


They don't have to be the same...you brought up OP's example of sixth sense .. i brought up Nardo's example of sixth sense and how genjutsu can affect that shit. If you want to say that COO is so unique and special that a simmilar abbility in functionality isn't enough..though.. it's still up to you to prove shit.


Dr. White said:


> The only non sharingan users hit on panel where Kabuto (hit with MS), Naruto (who was trash: canon), and Diedara, who was able to form a counter without any sensing or special technique. So yeah..


So 0 people. But Katakuri might because ...
And Deidara trained specifically for who knows how long to deal with that shit...


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Kakashi passed out due to the severe mental damage he sustained from tsuyokomi. Even if we assume if wouldn't work on his 6th sense it would still work on the other 5 and cause him to pass out like kakashi. Kata has no mindfuck resistance feats so we have no reason to assume he would be immune. Mindfuck is a form of hax which you don't get resistance to unless you have dealt with that specific hax.



I will have to disagree on that-
1) Genjutsu is easy to break out of if the user knows he is under an illusion-something with kata's COO he is able to identify immediately.
2) IIRC pain can also be helpful to break out of the genjutsu
3) energy equalization means that King's haki can act as a disruptor in itself to break out of it(maybe).I may be wrong but if you consider something that has not been shown to be countered in another series because it was never present,you cannot assume it will work on them unless it has the same properties the other people in the verse have. Like,I can also say King's haki will knock out Itachi since kata has a willpower overwhelming ability and itachi has no resistance to it since he was never hit by something like it before and does not know how to counter it.
4)the whole reason for the genjutsu working is the user being unable to tell something from an illusion to something that is real,in kata's case he knows this difference.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Still  got affected by Genjutsu so ...


Ok? Is shi katakuri? Are you gonna read the arguments or be a fuck?

Shi needs to concentrate to sense. Shi was distracted when Sasuke caught him in genjutsu. Katakuri does not need to concentrate as Shi does. 2+2=4.



> They don't have to be the same...you brought up OP's example of sixth sense .. i brought up Nardo's example of sixth sense and how genjutsu can affect that shit.


Except you didn't. No genjutsu in Naruto has never manipulated sensing. You even failed to bring up your bs example of karin. 



> If you want to say that COO is so unique and special that a simmilar abbility in functionality isn't enough..though.. it's still up to you to prove shit.


Uhmm.. I did multiple times...
> Sensors in Naruto can't sense anything without chakra. COO can.
> Sensors in Naruto can't use pre cog. Sharingan is only psuedo pre-cog and relies on seeing physical movement in order to predict movement. COO here is legit seeing into the future.

So yeah GG no re.



> So 0 people. But Katakuri might because ...


Because he isn't those people and possesses superior tools to not only handle genjutsu but not get caught in the first place?


> And Deidara trained specifically for who knows how long to deal with that shit...


uhm no? He encountered Itachi once. You act like he went around (or could have given all uchiha but madara, Obito, Sasuke, and ITachi were dead) practicing against Sharingan lmao. He learned to cope after one meeting. It wasn't perfect but he legit possessed no tools bar experience, Katakuri can see into the future and passively sense his surroundings.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> 1) Genjutsu is easy to break out of if the user knows he is under an illusion-something with kata's COO he is able to identify immediately.


Factually untrue. 


12zoro said:


> IIRC pain can also be helpful to break out of the genjutsu


Someone tried this against Itachi...didn't work.


12zoro said:


> energy equalization


We don't equalize chackra with haki.


12zoro said:


> I may be wrong but if you consider something that has not been shown to be countered in another series because it was never present,you cannot assume it will work on them unless it has the same properties the other people in the verse have. Like,I can also say King's haki will knock out Itachi since kata has a willpower overwhelming ability and itachi has no resistance to it since he was never hit by something like it before and does not know how to counter it.


That's not how burden of proof works. Haxx is assumed to work on someone unless said someone has shown resistance to the specific haxx category.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Someone tried this against Itachi...didn't work.


This is false. Kurenai did break out, although one could argue it wasn't Itachi's genjutsu, just her's flipped back on her.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> ) energy equalization means that King's haki can act as a disruptor in itself to break out of it(maybe).I may be wrong but if you consider something that has not been shown to be countered in another series because it was never present,you cannot assume it will work on them unless it has the same properties the other people in the verse have. Like,I can also say King's haki will knock out Itachi since kata has a willpower overwhelming ability and itachi has no resistance to it since he was never hit by something like it before and does not know how to counter it.


Haki is not part of equalization.
I mean it can be used to disrupt genjutsu.
But thats not because of equalization.
Is because conquerors could make itachi lose concentration


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Factually untrue.
> 
> Someone tried this against Itachi...didn't work.
> 
> ...


Like?Disrupting one's own flow to counter genjutsu is a known way,and one of the common ways unless someone does it for you.

Kurenai did-don't remember if it was itachi's genjutsu or hers though,but it remains that genjutsu can be broken out of with pain.

Okay,but then how is overpowering willpower  a normal,measurable attack? you cannot equate one's DC to his willpower and neither has itachi ever shown any resistance to being hit by something like that either.


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## Adamant soul (Feb 22, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> Is because conquerors could make itachi lose concentration



Haven't seen/read One Piece since the time-skip. When did conqueror's start working on non-fodder, much less someone of Itachi's caliber?


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> Haki is not part of equalization.
> I mean it can be used to disrupt genjutsu.
> But thats not because of equalization.
> Is because conquerors could make itachi lose concentration


If haki or something similar is not part of energy equalization,how and are characters able to even beat the logia users who won't be touched?Same for bleach shinigamis too..?


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> Haki is not part of equalization.
> I mean it can be used to disrupt genjutsu.
> But thats not because of equalization.
> Is because conquerors could make itachi lose concentration


> Nah it's more about Coc similarities with Kai.

> Honestly that is just a dumb old OBD hold over from when Haki was introduced and info was limited. We have well enough info to equalize imo.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> Haven't seen/read One Piece since the time-skip. When did conqueror's start working on non-fodder, much less someone of Itachi's caliber?


Itachi is really not that high caliber in One Piece standards.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 22, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> Haven't seen/read One Piece since the time-skip. When did conqueror's start working on non-fodder, much less someone of Itachi's caliber?


Never afaic.
It was Just me correcting  his notion that haki equakized


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> Like?Disrupting one's own flow to counter genjutsu is a known way,and one of the common ways unless someone does it for you.


Ikd why you changed the track but i'm gonna answer to your first claim. You can't always break out of Genjutsu even if you know you're under it. 


12zoro said:


> Kurenai did-don't remember if it was itachi's genjutsu or hers though,but it remains that genjutsu can be broken out of with pain.


This is corect..i didn't remember that she actaully snapped out of it.


12zoro said:


> Okay,but then how is overpowering willpower a normal,measurable attack?


It isn't ? 


12zoro said:


> you cannot equate one's DC to his willpower and neither has itachi ever shown any resistance to being hit by something like that either.


That's also correct.


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## Alita (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> A.) Katakuri is many times faster than Itachi and can move some odd meters before Itachi can make eye contact and cast his genjutsu.



Never said kata wasn't faster but he's not fast enough to blitz so I don't see the speed advantage as the end all for this match considering the ease to which itachi can genjutsu you. If itachi had to do complex hand signs to use his genjutsu I could see speed mattering more but he literally can genjutsu by looking or pointing in your direction. 



> B.) Katakuri can foresee genjutsu being cast.



This is what I question more than anything else. Itachi doesn't even have to move to genjutsu. Even if he sees into the future before itachi does tsuyokomi what exactly would he see which would inform him he's about to be mindfucked? All he would see is itachi still standing there. Even if he sees himself in pain how would he know it's mind fuck when he has never dealt with it before? How would he know how to counter it when he has no knowledge?



> One piece characters are MUCH more durable and pain tolerant than Naruto characters.



Depends on which Op characters you comparing to which Naruto characters. And their pain tolerance is against physical pain which I wouldn't say is the same as against mental pain/torture. 



> Ace and Jinbei could fight for 3 days straight. Admirals could fight for 7. Kata is somewhere in the middle of that.



3rd raikage fought off a whole army of ninjas for three days straight. Top and god tiers can be scaled to that stamina feat along with arguably some high tiers. 



> Neither did Kakashi. All mindfuck is not the same thing. Kakashi has RESISTANCE via sharingan, resistance to illusions is not the same thing as resistance towards the mental pain of going through pain for 3 days.



Being able to withstand physical pain doesn't mean you can resist mindfuck tho.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Do people not realize that genjutsu isnt just “oh i make you see an illusion” when shit tier genjutsu can put people to sleep and Itachi’s is so potent he can literally control your mind and force you under his complete control?

Kabuto knew that if he fell under genjutsu to the dude, he would get forced to undo Edo Tensei. Like, CoO isnt helping Katakuri break out or fight after he gets genjutsu’d because he just gets knocked the fuck out or Itachi makes him kill himself

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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Never said kata wasn't faster but he's not fast enough to blitz so I don't see the speed advantage as the end all for this match considering the ease to which itachi can genjutsu you. If itachi had to do complex hand signs to use his genjutsu I could see speed mattering more but he literally can genjutsu by looking or pointing in your direction.


No you seem to misunderstand how speed works. Kata is mach 1950. Itachi at best is mach 350 or so.

That is easily 3x faster than him, meaning he can move 3 meters before Itachi can even muster a motion. Locking eye contact is much more difficult than you are making it out to be. ITachi just doesn't have to "look in their direction". He has to lock eyes and mentally cast, and Itachi is mentally and physically slower here. So it's no where near the auto win you are trying to make it out to be, especially when even if caught Kata can deal.



> This is what I question more than anything else. Itachi doesn't even have to move to genjutsu. Even if he sees into the future before itachi does tsuyokomi what exactly would he see which would inform him he's about to be mindfucked?


Because he will see and feel Itachi? Not only will he see into the future but he can act on that with speeds much faster than Itachi. Obviously if Kata seems himself falling over in a second via a glance he is smart enough to deduce he needs to be wary of Itachi, and will go for hitting him indirectly.



> All he would see is itachi still standing there.


COO is more about foresight, he will see and feel what Itachi is doing. Even NAgato could sense Itachi was building up chakra in his eye for amaterasu, so kata is not gonna be daft enough to just sit in front of itachi after foreseeing ITachi looking him in the eye and hitting him with genjutsu.



> Even if he sees himself in pain how would he know it's mind fuck when he has never dealt with it before? How would he know how to counter it when he has no knowledge?


I already admitted Tsukuymi would do work. Will it one shot him? Idk. I think KAta can deal heftily with his lower tier genjutsu and while Tsukuyomi is a good option
A.) idk if it's a oneshot.
B.) Idk if it will even land.



> Depends on which Op characters you comparing to which Naruto characters. And their pain tolerance is against physical pain which I wouldn't say is the same as against mental pain/torture.


Not really. Ace and Jinbei are pretty low compared to first mates and above, and even fodder like BA sanji could take mass amounts of damage. OP is much mor ebulkier and have much more damage soak than Naruto.




> 3rd raikage fought off a whole army of ninjas for three days straight. Top and god tiers can be scaled to that stamina feat along with arguably some high tiers.


Itachi is not a god or top tier. You realize what top/god tier is in NAruto right? 3rd raikage was not only hyped for his base iron skin durability, but also had his shroud which was hyped as a mythical lance/shield combo. He had defense/offense while 4th Ei had speed. 




> Being able to withstand physical pain doesn't mean you can resist mindfuck tho.


Except for unless Itachi knows about your past he can't use mental trauma. Which is why he tortured Kakashi by mimiccking physical pain for 3 days, where as with Sasuke (with whom he had intimate knowledge) he used mental trauma.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Do people not realize that genjutsu isnt just “oh i make you see an illusion” when shit tier genjutsu can put people to sleep and Itachi’s is so potent he can literally control your mind and force you under his complete control?
> 
> Kabuto knew that if he fell under genjutsu to the dude, he would get forced to undo Edo Tensei. Like, CoO isnt helping Katakuri break out or fight after he gets genjutsu’d because he just gets knocked the fuck out or Itachi makes him kill himself


clearly only referring to illusions which is why I sai hypnosis and tsukuyomi are different. But ignoring the speed difference pre cog is also ignorant.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Do people not realize that genjutsu isnt just “oh i make you see an illusion” when shit tier genjutsu can put people to sleep and Itachi’s is so potent he can literally control your mind and force you under his complete control?
> 
> Kabuto knew that if he fell under genjutsu to the dude, he would get forced to undo Edo Tensei. Like, CoO isnt helping Katakuri break out or fight after he gets genjutsu’d because he just gets knocked the fuck out or Itachi makes him kill himself


You do realize COO isn't about your 5 basic senses right? Putting to sleep isn't going to do jack since-
1) WB while sleeping swatted Ace away when he was trying to kill him
2) Current luffy who was losing consciousness was dodging kata's attacks because of COO.You are trying to hype 1 thing to make it better while clearly ignoring how the other technique works.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> You do realize COO isn't about your 5 basic senses right? Putting to sleep isn't going to do jack since-
> 1) WB while sleeping swatted Ace away when he was trying to kill him
> 2) Current luffy who was losing consciousness was dodging kata's attacks because of COO.You are trying to hype 1 thing to make it better while clearly ignoring how the other technique works.


Thats shit tier, Itachi can just knock the dude out if he gets him or he can put him into a coma. CoO isnt doing shit


Dr. White said:


> clearly only referring to illusions which is why I sai hypnosis and tsukuyomi are different. But ignoring the speed difference pre cog is also ignorant.


Itachi only uses illusions when hes fucking with people, bloodlusted means he would immediately knock them out or paralyze them.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Thats shit tier, Itachi can just knock the dude out if he gets him or he can put him into a coma. CoO isnt doing shit
> 
> Itachi only uses illusions when hes fucking with people, bloodlusted means he would immediately knock them out or paralyze them.


It's shit tier because you say so? based on what? And what do you think dodging without being conscious means?And whats stopping kata from Using kings haki and knocking itachi out with it?


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Thats shit tier, Itachi can just knock the dude out if he gets him or he can put him into a coma. CoO isnt doing shit
> 
> Itachi only uses illusions when hes fucking with people, bloodlusted means he would immediately knock them out or paralyze them.


Not really.

Vs Orochimaru he used Binding.

Vs kurenai, who he didn't wanna kill, but wanted to disable as soon as possible he used illusions. He has never used knockout as a first resort.

Once again you are ignoring Katakuri being able to see into the future, and being faster.


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## Foxve (Feb 22, 2018)

Do people not realize that Itachi's genjutsu fucks with your sense of time?

Tsukiyomi tortures for 3 days while only 3 seconds pass in reality. Even itachi's finger genjutsu made naruto engage in a mental battle that didn't happen before he realized it was a genjutsu. This happened while he was simply standing still after the fight barely even started. 

Hell, Itachi genjutsu'd a woman into seducing Jiraiya to get him away from Naruto in part 1......

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## Foxve (Feb 22, 2018)

Yeah no. After what Itachi did in in the manga there's no way in hell Kings haki is even coming close to knocking him out. 

And once again, seeing into the future isn't going to tell Katakuri that the genjutsu is going to come from Itachi's eyes or his finger.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> It's shit tier because you say so? based on what? And what do you think dodging without being conscious means?And whats stopping kata from Using kings haki and knocking itachi out with it?


Its shit tier cause Kabuto used it. Dude specializes in medical ninjutsu, Itachi is one of the greatest genjutsu users ever. 

Ah yes, let me dodge while my mind is being played with like silly putty, sounds logical as fuck.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Do people not realize that Itachi's genjutsu fucks with your sense of time?
> 
> Tsukiyomi tortures for 3 days while only 3 seconds pass in reality. Even itachi's finger genjutsu made naruto engage in a mental battle that didn't happen before he realized it was a genjutsu. This happened while he was simply standing still after the fight barely even started.
> 
> Hell, Itachi genjutsu'd a woman into seducing Jiraiya to get him away from Naruto in part 1......


3 days is a short burst, he can extend it even further considering he killed that one girl by making her live out her entire fucking life in Tsukuyomi.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> 3 days is a short burst, he can extend it even further considering he killed that one girl by making her live out her entire fucking life in Tsukuyomi.


That was non canon.


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## Foxve (Feb 22, 2018)

Lol @Dr. White telling me to lurk more.  

Do you even understand how CoC works? It's not working on someone with Itachi's level of will power.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Not really.
> 
> Vs Orochimaru he used Binding.
> 
> ...


I dont think you guys realize that we arent saying he is going to win most of the time. Just that he has a chance at it and if he hits Kata with genjutsu then he wins


Dr. White said:


> That was non canon.


the novels are canon


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> I dont think you guys realize that we arent saying he is going to win most of the time. Just that he has a chance at it and if he hits Kata with genjutsu then he wins
> 
> the novels are canon


I don't disagree that Itachi has slight off chances. I've been admitted this. That isn't what your mates are arguing though 

No they aren't lmao. Wheelchair guy fucking up multiple jonins at once? Blue fire fist 8 year old Itachi busting boulders thrown by  100%Kyuubi? Nah.


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## Foxve (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> 3 days is a short burst, he can extend it even further considering he killed that one girl by making her live out her entire fucking life in Tsukuyomi.



When did this happen?  I don't remember that.....


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Lol @Dr. White telling me to lurk more.
> 
> Do you even understand how CoC works? It's not working on someone with Itachi's level of will power.


A.) Read my argument ningen. I never said anything about it doing anything to Itachi. It functions like Kai which is why it can allow Kata to break out of 3 tomoe genjutsu. lrn2rd
B.) His best willpower feat is fighting while sick. How would that make him immune?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> I don't disagree that Itachi has slight off chances. I've been admitted this. That isn't what your mates are arguing though
> 
> No they aren't lmao. Wheelchair guy fucking up multiple jonins at once? Blue fire fist 8 year old Itachi busting boulders thrown by  100%Kyuubi? Nah.


They were overseen by Kishi and are stated to be canon. They are ridiculous but that doesn’t mean you can dismiss them because they are lol, thats not how canon works


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> They were overseen by Kishi and are stated to be canon. They are ridiculous but that doesn’t mean you can dismiss them because they are lol, thats not how canon works


A.) "overseen" has never made anything canon.
B.) When were they stated as canon by kishi lmao.

Also there are such things as outliers.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Its shit tier cause Kabuto used it. Dude specializes in medical ninjutsu, Itachi is one of the greatest genjutsu users ever.
> 
> Ah yes, let me dodge while my mind is being played with like silly putty, sounds logical as fuck.


He is still a ninja who is decent with genjutsu's.
So,let me get this straight,
Itachi can put kata under genjutsu and kata cannot do anything because kata has shown no resistance against such illusions even though genjutsu is said to ONLY affect 5 senses to create an illusion and kata has an additional sense which acts perfectly normal and prevents kata from losing his shit.

But itachi ,even though he has no demonstrations of resisting a willpower attack ,which is fired off before itachi can get his act together since kata is 4 times faster,isn't startled,surprised or even distracted in the least bit because who cares if the kings haki attack isn't a normal attack but something only the OP verse has a specific counter to, and throws a genjutsu which is supposedly more powerful than the ones he has shown to start off with faster than katakuri because hey,how can we wank naruto?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> A.) Read my argument ningen. I never said anything about it doing anything to Itachi. It functions like Kai which is why it can allow Kata to break out of 3 tomoe genjutsu. lrn2rd
> B.) His best willpower feat is fighting while sick. How would that make him immune?


He was fighting while literally being on deaths door and was spamming very very taxing shit. Zetsu said that the only reason Itachi was alive was because he took some meds to extend his life just to fight Sauce.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> He was fighting while literally being on deaths door and was spamming very very taxing shit. Zetsu said that the only reason Itachi was alive was because he took some meds to extend his life just to fight Sauce.


Ok? Did I not just say that him fighting while sick is the one example lmao? That might be hard in the Nardo verse but not really hard in the OP verse.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> He is still a ninja who is decent with genjutsu's.
> So,let me get this straight,
> Itachi can put kata under genjutsu and kata cannot do anything because kata has shown no resistance against such illusions even though genjutsu is said to ONLY affect 5 senses to create an illusion and kata has an additional sense which acts perfectly normal and prevents kata from losing his shit.
> 
> But itachi ,even though he has no demonstrations of resisting a willpower attack ,which is fired off before itachi can get his act together since kata is 4 times faster,isn't startled,surprised or even distracted in the least bit because who cares if the kings haki attack isn't a normal attack but something only the OP verse has a specific counter to, and throws a genjutsu which is supposedly more powerful than the ones he has shown to start off with faster than katakuri because hey,how can we wank naruto?


CoC only works on fodder. Stop trying to make it seem like its a factor here. Genjutsu can control peoples actions, literal mind control. Fuck off


Dr. White said:


> A.) "overseen" has never made anything canon.
> B.) When were they stated as canon by kishi lmao.
> 
> Also there are such things as outliers.


okay so why is it an outlier?

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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Ok? Did I not just say that him fighting while sick is the one example lmao? That might be hard in the Nardo verse but not really hard in the OP verse.


Thats not just “sick”. Dude was almost literally a walking corpse


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> CoC only works on fodder. Stop trying to make it seem like its a factor here. Genjutsu can control peoples actions, literal mind control. Fuck off
> 
> okay so why is it an outlier?


A. There is no proof it is canon.
B.) How the fuck do you not see adult Itachi stressing from 3 days in Tsukuyomi vs just got his MS 13 year old ITachi doing 80=90 years as a blatant outlier?


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> CoC only works on fodder. Stop trying to make it seem like its a factor here. Genjutsu can control peoples actions, literal mind control. Fuck off
> 
> okay so why is it an outlier?


And what the fuck makes itachi not a fodder for this one attack? When the hell did itachi resist COC attacks in narutoverse for you to say it is not going to be a factor?

I can say the same fucking thing about genjutsu-its shit and anybody with more than 5 senses is not going to be affected by it,so take your wank elsewhere


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> A. There is no proof it is canon.
> B.) How the fuck do you not see adult Itachi stressing from 3 days in Tsukuyomi vs just got his MS 13 year old ITachi doing 80=90 years as a blatant outlier?


Because adult Itachi was sick and dying, and also not trying to murder Kakashi?

Kishi was heavily involved with the novels, drew art for them, and shit like Kakashi’s purple lightning have appeared in Boruto.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> And what the fuck makes itachi not a fodder for this one attack? When the hell did itachi resist COC attacks in narutoverse for you to say it is not going to be a factor?
> 
> I can say the same fucking thing about genjutsu-its shit and anybody with more than 5 senses is not going to be affected by it,so take your wank elsewhere


The downplay here is almost staggering. Itachi has great willpower feats and isnt some garbage fodder. Luffy couldnt even knock out all the damn fishmen alone, Katakuri doesnt have any better solo feats.

>Controls peoples minds and actions
>its just illusions guys!!!!!!!!!!!! 5 senses!!!!!!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Because adult Itachi was sick and dying, and also not trying to murder Kakashi?
> 
> Kishi was heavily involved with the novels, drew art for them, and shit like Kakashi’s purple lightning have appeared in Boruto.


Ok? His top end in the actual manga is 3 days. How the fuck are you trying to justify a 13 year old Itachi, who just gained the fucking MS seconds earlier, doing 80 years? You don't even believe that bullshit lmao.

Itachi didn't want to kill him but he also wanted him out of the way. after 3 days worth he was tired as fuck lmao.

He did work drawing shit. He didn't do shit wiritng wise, or ever say they were canon. It was a production by a fanon team. None of what you are saying proves canon.


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## Foxve (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> I don't disagree that Itachi has slight off chances. I've been admitted this. That isn't what your mates are arguing though



I already said Katakuri wins via Spinning mochi wheel that even "snakeman" Luffy couldn't dodge.



Dr. White said:


> A.) Read my argument ningen. I never said anything about it doing anything to Itachi. It functions like Kai which is why it can allow Kata to break out of 3 tomoe genjutsu. lrn2rd
> B.) His best willpower feat is fighting while sick. How would that make him immune?



First I wasn't talking to just you when I said that CoC wouldn't work on him. That was mostly for 12zoro though it applies to anyone who thinks that. 

And secondly, considering how Itachi lived his life, I'd say will power is easily top tier. 

CoC only knocks out those with weak wills....


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> The downplay here is almost staggering. Itachi has great willpower feats and isnt some garbage fodder. Luffy couldnt even knock out all the damn fishmen alone, Katakuri doesnt have any better solo feats.
> 
> >Controls peoples minds and actions
> >its just illusions guys!!!!!!!!!!!! 5 senses!!!!!!


LEt me know when Itachi has casually genjutsu'd someone many times faster than him.

I guess that's why Sasuke casually genjutsu'd Ei? Or why Obito casually genjutsu'd KCM Naruto, or base Gai despite being able to control a Jinchuriki for multiple years


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> LEt me know when Itachi has casually genjutsu'd someone many times faster than him.
> 
> I guess that's why Sasuke casually genjutsu'd Ei? Or why Obito casually genjutsu'd KCM Naruto, or base Gai despite being able to control a Jinchuriki for multiple years


Because writing? Kishi doesnt write this shit into every fight, Obito not going for it proves literally nothing.


Dr. White said:


> Ok? His top end in the actual manga is 3 days. How the fuck are you trying to justify a 13 year old Itachi, who just gained the fucking MS seconds earlier, doing 80 years? You don't even believe that bullshit lmao.
> 
> Itachi didn't want to kill him but he also wanted him out of the way. after 3 days worth he was tired as fuck lmao.
> 
> He did work drawing shit. He didn't do shit wiritng wise, or ever say they were canon. It was a production by a fanon team. None of what you are saying proves canon.


where does it say 3 days is his top? The 80 years thing is a stretch because it took a lot out of him, it wasnt the most casual shit but he can extend the time further if he wants or needs to was my point.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> The downplay here is almost staggering. Itachi has great willpower feats and isnt some garbage fodder. Luffy couldnt even knock out all the damn fishmen alone, Katakuri doesnt have any better solo feats.
> 
> >Controls peoples minds and actions
> >its just illusions guys!!!!!!!!!!!! 5 senses!!!!!!


And where is the feat of itachi resisting attempts of someone else forcing his willpower on him? Itachi may have the best willpower in the entire fanfiction but how is that helping him to resist an attack which is just forcing katakuri's will onto him? What kind of downplay is this when on one hand you say since genjutsu is mindfuck and since kata has no resistance feats he is vulnerable but on the other hand itachi not having any feats of resisting someone else's will onto you is not going to be affected in the slightest?

Every character in OP verse is born with a latent haki ability,luffy not knocking down 50k fishmen has no semblence of any kind onto the feat itself since KH is not a physical attack.

He controls them through illusions.What control are you talking about when he has no idea how to deal with a sense non-existent in his verse?I have no problem accepting genjutsu having some effects,but katakuri knows he is under an illusion and when people know that,they have shown to break out of it via pain or other methods


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Why doesnt the Flash just blitzfuck every villain he comes across? PIS/CIS is a thing


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## Alita (Feb 22, 2018)

So now the OP wankers are arguing kings haki can take out itachi? 

Yeah I'm done here.

@iwandesu  you may as well close this. It's never gonna end at this rate.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> And where is the feat of itachi resisting attempts of someone else forcing his willpower on him? Itachi may have the best willpower in the entire fanfiction but how is that helping him to resist an attack which is just forcing katakuri's will onto him? What kind of downplay is this when on one hand you say since genjutsu is mindfuck and since kata has no resistance feats he is vulnerable but on the other hand itachi not having any feats of resisting someone else's will onto you is not going to be affected in the slightest?
> 
> Every character in OP verse is born with a latent haki ability,luffy not knocking down 50k fishmen has no semblence of any kind onto the feat itself since KH is not a physical attack.
> 
> He controls them through illusions.What control are you talking about when he has no idea how to deal with a sense non-existent in his verse?I have no problem accepting genjutsu having some effects,but katakuri knows he is under an illusion and when people know that,they have shown to break out of it via pain or other methods


How is Katakuri going to break it or even control his own actions? Doesnt matter if he can sense it when he cant do shit cause Itachi is controlling him.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Fuck are you on about? Passive vs active is a huge difference lmao. Shi needs a couple seconds to gather his sensing. Sasuke advantage of that gap to genjutsu him. If you don't see the difference than you are just fucking bias lmao.





Dr. White said:


> While they weren't sensing.


Nah .


Dr. White said:


> No, but with sensing he csn fight while under it, and COC gives him great odds.


That goes only for illusions. We already covered the other parts of genjutsu.


Dr. White said:


> Is ITachi guaranteed to trap him in genjutsu when Kata can see ITachi doing it before he uses it? When kata is much faster?


Once again...i'm not arguing about the match-up...i'm arguing the specific scenario where Itachi actually manages to cast his genjutsu on Kata.


Dr. White said:


> Irrelevant as most still fall victim. Kakashi casually genjutsu'd multiple Anbu, and chunin on seperate occassions. He even used a pt. 1 gimped version to fuck over Zabuza.


It's the other way around. It's not a feat against them but a feat for the genjutsu user. Itachi has no problem casting genjutsu on people even though they all have a modicum of mind-fuck resistance and the knowledge of dealing with it.


Dr. White said:


> Don't know why you are bringing up these fodder when KAta is much more equipped to deal with these.


Except he's not.


Dr. White said:


> COC is a much more potent version of Kai, so yes it will.


That's a bold statement to make..to bad it's just a statement without any kind of proof or aplication  from the source material.


Dr. White said:


> Yes and he doesn't have Kata's skill. How do you train against sharinan with no sharingan to train against? You make no sense.


I make no sense for quoting what happened in the manga ? 
yeah..ok.


12zoro said:


> I was trying to point out that unless you know you are under an illusion,you can never break out of it.If you know,you are in a much better place since you can counter/try to counter it.


Yes..try and that goes only for illusions .


12zoro said:


> Not really,no.What would you use to "measure" the attack level? To quote one of your own posts-


I know that's what i wanted to express through that question. You can't quantify willpower. It should still fall under haxx category.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Why doesnt the Flash just blitzfuck every villain he comes across? PIS/CIS is a thing


and you know damn well OBD doesn't recongize this. What the fuck? If Black panther fucks with flash because of blatant PIS or CIS the BP doesn't become Lightspeed. there are shit ton of examples of this lmao. You are reaching so fucking hard.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> How is Katakuri going to break it or even control his own actions? Doesnt matter if he can sense it when he cant do shit cause Itachi is controlling him.


How is itachi not going to be affected by king's will? Where  did he get the ability to resist an action of forcing someone's will onto him?

Kurenai did so with pain-under genjutsu,without any extra sense.Kata has COO,he bites his tongue to try to snap out of it



Alita54 said:


> So now the OP wankers are arguing kings haki can take out itachi?
> 
> Yeah I'm done here.
> 
> @iwandesu  you may as well close this. It's never gonna end at this rate.


Thank god you are done,one less idiot to argue against.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Yes..try and that goes only for illusions .
> 
> I know that's what i wanted to express through that question. You can't quantify willpower. It should still fall under haxx category.


For a character who is faster and stronger by default,this should be enough for simple genjutsu illusions..of course stronger mindfuck can get kata fucked,but he has more than enough time and speed to first surprise itachi with the king's haki and then clear him out via awakening or some shit..


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> For a character who is faster and stronger by default,this should be enough for simple genjutsu illusions..of course stronger mindfuck can get kata fucked,but he has more than enough time and speed to first surprise itachi with the king's haki and then clear him out via awakening or some shit..


Yea i totally remember that time that Kings haki worked on someone of Post-timeskip Luffy’s level.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

Foxve said:


> First I wasn't talking to just you when I said that CoC wouldn't work on him. That was mostly for 12zoro though it applies to anyone who thinks that.
> 
> And secondly, considering how Itachi lived his life, I'd say will power is easily top tier.
> 
> CoC only knocks out those with weak wills....


COC isn't only about whose will is stronger,its also about forcing your own will onto others-a thing luffy does passively which is why everyone is attracted to him.

There is no way you can resist such attacks that you are completely unaffected just cause your willpower is stronger.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Kishi worked with the authors and gave the novels his stamp of approval. He drew art for the novels too. This isnt giving them character designs and shit, i dont know what you even want other than me scrounging for some quote that has him saying “the novels are canon”.


AND THIS HAS NEVER BEEN ENOUGH TO PROVE CANON. There are multiple exmaples of exactly what you are saying which I fucking outlined and some even more so. Is Storng world canon? No. Guess what? Oda fucking storyboarded, gave designs, and wrote in a chapter 0 featuring characters and a plot line for it. Still not canon. There are way more example, and you have yet to counter with anything other than "kishi worked with them". That does not equal canon.


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## Steven (Feb 22, 2018)

What stops Itachi to use Genjutsu?Its his standart Move

One Piss Verse dont have mindfuck resistance

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Alita (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> How is itachi not going to be affected by king's will? Where  did he get the ability to resist an action of forcing someone's will onto him?
> 
> Kurenai did so with pain-under genjutsu,without any extra sense.Kata has COO,he bites his tongue to try to snap out of it
> 
> ...



Your probably the biggest idiot and OP wanker in this thread. Which is saying a lot.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> and you know damn well OBD doesn't recongize this. What the fuck? If Black panther fucks with flash because of blatant PIS or CIS the BP doesn't become Lightspeed. there are shit ton of examples of this lmao. You are reaching so fucking hard.


How is this reaching when im giving an example of Obito not utilizing his full aresenal under PIS?


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Lol...that constant shifting of goalposts and that butthurt...
> Get that sand out of your vagina and delete yourself plss.
> 
> For the last time i am not arguing for who wins the match...i'm only arguing the scenario where Itachi actually manages to cast his genjutsu. Katakuri could stomp him into the ground without a problem for all i know.


concession accepted


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## Foxve (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> And where is the feat of itachi resisting attempts of someone else forcing his willpower on him? Itachi may have the best willpower in the entire fanfiction but how is that helping him to resist an attack which is just forcing katakuri's will onto him? What kind of downplay is this when on one hand you say since genjutsu is mindfuck and since kata has no resistance feats he is vulnerable but on the other hand itachi not having any feats of resisting someone else's will onto you is not going to be affected in the slightest?
> 
> Every character in OP verse is born with a latent haki ability,luffy not knocking down 50k fishmen has no semblence of any kind onto the feat itself since KH is not a physical attack.
> 
> He controls them through illusions.What control are you talking about when he has no idea how to deal with a sense non-existent in his verse?I have no problem accepting genjutsu having some effects,but katakuri knows he is under an illusion and when people know that,they have shown to break out of it via pain or other methods



Itachi massacred his entire Clan, then exiled himself from his village that he did it for while going undercover in the most dangerous organization in the world at the time by himself. The guy popped pills to keep himself alive after he got sick for who knows how many years while going up against Biju and/or their hosts. He isn't weak willed  


CoC only works on those with weak will power. Until it's shown to do anything else all you're doing is reaching. 

And last time I checked the OBD doesn't equate haki with chakra.


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> concession accepted


Autistic generic reply nr 100
Stay mad.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> How is this reaching when im giving an example of Obito not utilizing his full aresenal under PIS?


Because you are arguing for shit that never happened in the canon? Because fast characters have consistently dodged eye contact? Even Itachi need multiple feints and play around to catch base bee in a genjutsu. Sasuke needed Bee to come at him with a straight forward blitz to catch him in genjutsu. Sasuke couldn't genjutsu Ei at all, etc.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Yea i totally remember that time that Kings haki worked on someone of Post-timeskip Luffy’s level.


What are you trying to insinuate? Why are you comparing luffy or anyone from the VA and up resisting a COC based on his powerlevel? One piece verse has latent haki by default and they know they can resist it by having you own willpower match and negate the other forcing his will onto you.

Itachi does not have this ability,so how does it matter how strong his willpower is?He does not know how to counter someone's willpower being forced onto him,he is going to be affected regardless of how mentally strong he thinks he is.


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Autistic generic reply nr 100
> Stay mad.


You're the one mad because your arguments suck, I'm chillen


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## TYPE-Rey (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> You're the one mad because your arguments suck,


Whatever helps you sleep at night my man.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

Foxve said:


> Itachi massacred his entire Clan, then exiled himself from his village that he did it for while going undercover in the most dangerous organization in the world at the time by himself. The guy popped pills to keep himself alive after he got sick for who knows how many years while going up against Biju and/or their hosts. He isn't weak willed
> 
> 
> *CoC only works on those with weak will power*. Until it's shown to do anything else all you're doing is reaching.
> ...


And he can do shit 1000times better,it still does not give him any means of countering something he is going to face for the first time
Yeah show me this is the only thing COC does. COC is basically exerting your willpower on others,it has been explained as such and unless other verses by default get the ability to resist the same like OP does,they are not countering it the first time they experience it.


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Your probably the biggest idiot and OP wanker in this thread. Which is saying a lot.


I thought you were done with this, you delusional child?


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## Foxve (Feb 22, 2018)

12zoro said:


> What are you trying to insinuate? Why are you comparing luffy or anyone from the VA and up resisting a COC based on his powerlevel? One piece verse has latent haki by default and they know they can resist it by having you own willpower match and negate the other forcing his will onto you.
> 
> Itachi does not have this ability,so how does it matter how strong his willpower is?He does not know how to counter someone's willpower being forced onto him,he is going to be affected regardless of how mentally strong he thinks he is.



That's a NLF. Also, plenty of people from one piece have resisted CoC without even knowing how or even trying. Remember Hordy?


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## Steven (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> One piece characters are MUCH more durable and pain tolerant than Naruto characters. Dofla had his organs ripped to shreds, and simply stitched them together for base level functioning and proceeded to laugh off a G2 attack to his internals.



Even base Ruffy can kick the shit out of him.Kata is,like the rest of the BM Pirates based on Hax and not firepower.

He can not even beat ruffy after beating him for hours.His Dura is piss weak as well


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Lol...that constant shifting of goalposts and that butthurt...
> Get that sand out of your vagina and delete yourself plss.
> 
> For the last time i am not arguing for who wins the match...i'm only arguing the scenario where Itachi actually manages to cast his genjutsu. Katakuri could stomp him into the ground without a problem for all i know.


Yeah if he gets hit with a powerful genjutsu,katakuri isn't winning and that's obvious since he has no resistance to such things..


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

Yea this is some serious concentrated stupid. Im out cause this is just pointless


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## g4snake108 (Feb 22, 2018)

Foxve said:


> That's a NLF. Also, plenty of people from one piece have resisted CoC without even knowing how or even trying. Remember Hordy?


What is?Itachi being caught unawares?Why?The one I said to onesimpleanime about itachi bing knocked out is an exaggeration since I wanted to point out his exaggerations,but him being caught unaware and distracted by such an attack isn't.

No I don't,which are you referring to?


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

Rot said:


> Even base Ruffy can kick the shit out of him.Kata is,like the rest of the BM Pirates based on Hax and not firepower.
> 
> He can not even beat ruffy after beating him for hours.His Dura is piss weak as well


What the fuck lmao? Base luffy would one shot itachi lmao. 

Where are you even coming from lmao


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## Steven (Feb 22, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> This post is so autistic and irrelevant I can't.


Good Counter

But yes,ignore any point of the Kata vs Ruffy fight


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## Dr. White (Feb 22, 2018)

Rot said:


> Good Counter
> 
> But yes,ignore any point of the Kata vs Ruffy fight


There is no point lmao. Base luffy punched kata.so? Did he damage him? Ko him? Did kata not tank multiple g4 hits? Are
You saying base luffy = g4 hits? Has kata not laid out g4 hits?

Furthermore no one here was even discussing kata's stats because we all know them. Your comment had literally nothing to do with the thread, and just outlines how lost/retarded you are  especially since base luffy can one shot itachi dozens of times over


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## Mr. Good vibes (Feb 22, 2018)

The fact that the mods allowed this cancer pool of circular arguments continue would be surprising if they all weren't lazy bums and this section wasn't on life support.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kingdom Come (Feb 22, 2018)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> The fact that the mods allowed this cancer pool of circular arguments continue would be surprising if they all weren't lazy bums and this section wasn't on life support.



Theyre Itachi wankers


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## Bernkastel (Feb 22, 2018)

This thread should have ended a long time ago...Itachi's only chance of winning is casting a genjutsu on a much faster guy with future sight while Katakuri only needs to snap his fingers and drown him in mochi instantly with awakening.
9/10 times Kat wins.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 22, 2018)

Bernkastel said:


> This thread should have ended a long time ago...Itachi's only chance of winning is casting a genjutsu on a much faster guy with future sight while Katakuri only needs to snap his fingers and drown him in mochi instantly with awakening.
> 9/10 times Kat wins.



And that 1/10 is Katakuri slipping on a butter-filled banana, and somehow drowning himself.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Bernkastel (Feb 22, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> And that 1/10 is Katakuri slipping on a butter-filled banana, and somehow drowning himself.



He genjutsu's his own self creating the illusion he wins..the butter-filled banana is a solid idea too


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## shunsui1 (Feb 22, 2018)

iwandesu said:


> Do a meta thread instead of Being a whiny prick.
> Find proof of Omgman mistakes and link them.
> I have received no report so far from him with anything more than he stonewalling.
> Vou guys dont need to feed stonewalling trolls.
> And i sure need tons of offense to ban someone Just because they are stonewalling.[/QUOT fun fact nobody was talking about you or omgman lol. You're not the only moderator in this forum.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

I guess it is safe to say that Itachi takes this then


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## xenos5 (Feb 22, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> Haven't seen/read One Piece since the time-skip. When did conqueror's start working on non-fodder, much less someone of Itachi's caliber?





iwandesu said:


> Never afaic.
> It was Just me correcting  his notion that haki equalized



Well recently it did work on someone who was able to injure Base Luffy with a blowgun needle (Charlotte Flampe) due the amount of force it was shot with (from them sucking a lot of air inwards and then exhaling).

She is still fodder by G4 Luffy and Katakuri's standards, but she's better than the typical fodder.

And the range of Luffy and Katakuri's CoC spheres is pretty big as well with the background being affected by the force of them.


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## xenos5 (Feb 22, 2018)

@God Movement @KaiserWombat

You're both listed as supporters of the One Piece Series on the OBD wiki.

Do you think one of you could make an OBD wiki profile for Katakuri and add this thread to his wins and Itachi's losses? I think it's been made pretty clear who wins here, regardless of the BS the Itachi wankers have been trying to spout.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 22, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> @God Movement @KaiserWombat
> 
> You're both listed as supporters of the One Piece Series on the OBD wiki.
> 
> Do you think one of you could make an OBD wiki profile for Katakuri and add this thread to his wins and Itachi's losses? I think it's been made pretty clear who wins here, regardless of the BS the Itachi wankers have been trying to spout.


Not sure what wank youre talking about when we admitted Itachi loses.


xenos5 said:


> Well recently it did work on someone who was able to injure Base Luffy with a blowgun needle (Charlotte Flampe) due the amount of force it was shot with (from them sucking a lot of air inwards and then exhaling).
> 
> She is still fodder by G4 Luffy and Katakuri's standards, but she's better than the typical fodder.
> 
> And the range of Luffy and Katakuri's CoC spheres is pretty big as well with the background being affected by the force of them.


thats not really a solo CoC feat


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## xenos5 (Feb 22, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Not sure what wank youre talking about when we admitted Itachi loses.



I'm not talking about you, dude. I'm talking about guys like OMGMAN and Rot. 



OneSimpleAnime said:


> thats not really a solo CoC feat



I seriously doubt Flampe wouldn't have been knocked out if it was just Katakuri or Luffy's CoC alone. And regardless the feat was mostly to show that CoC can knock out someone who isn't complete fodder.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## shunsui1 (Feb 22, 2018)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> The fact that the mods allowed this cancer pool of circular arguments continue would be surprising if they all weren't lazy bums and this section wasn't on life support.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

you should be careful with who calls who lazy, that is not nice.

@MusubiKazesaru I think it is time to lock, people want it so.


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## shunsui1 (Feb 22, 2018)

This should've been locked pages ago......I don't know how I'm the problem when somebody else says the same thing and it's ok...


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 22, 2018)

shunsui1 said:


> This should've been locked pages ago......I don't know how I'm the problem when somebody else says the same thing and it's ok...



When you are dealing with an individual who is so self-absorbed that they think their opinion is "objective fact", you're bound to encounter that kind of double-standard.  

Here, that individual is OMGMAN, with all the false nicety that comes with it.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

It's not your fault, when you are being very authoritative over others and occasionally stalk others, it's bound to happen, so you should work on that


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## shunsui1 (Feb 22, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> It's not your fault, when you are being very authoritative over others it's bound to happen, so you should work on that


 wait who are you again? That's what I thought.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

shunsui1 said:


> wait who are you again? That's what I thought.



I am your father!


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## shunsui1 (Feb 22, 2018)

Id rather he a bastard


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

search your feelings you know it to be true!!!


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## Steven (Feb 22, 2018)

Is this now a Star Wars thread?

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 22, 2018)

OMGMAN said:


> It's not your fault, when you are being very authoritative over others and occasionally stalk others, it's bound to happen, so you should work on that



Oh, stop being such a whiny little prat because people don't buy your "kugelblitz" bullshit and that "omniversal Panoptes" insanity.

Charlotte Katakuri wins in this thread more often than not, yet you are in complete denial of any conclusions that don't fit your personal narrative.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

you should stop being a perfectionist and actually follow what the story entails then maybe, that is not healthy.

anyway, Itachi takes this, time to lock the thread is this is getting off topic


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## shunsui1 (Feb 22, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Oh, stop being such a whiny little prat because people don't buy your "kugelblitz" bullshit and that "omniversal Panoptes" insanity.
> 
> Charlotte Katakuri wins in this thread more often than not, yet you are in complete denial of any conclusions that don't fit your personal narrative.



I'm pretty sure this guy is close to iwandesu. That's the only explanation behing letting this nonsense continue.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Feb 22, 2018)

@iwandesu Okay, time to lock, and I'm out


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## Iwandesu (Feb 22, 2018)

I predict that this thread Will br locked in 5 seconds

Reactions: Like 2


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