# Imperial Star Destroyer vs. ZAFT



## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

ISD Commanded by Admiral Piett

They start 100 km apart, ISD has all weapons and fighters it is shown to have in SW. And Boba Fett in the Slave I is on standby.

How would this go?


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## neodragzero (Jan 6, 2010)

And I thought I was cruel.


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Time for TWF's star wars debate hour.



neodragzero said:


> And I thought I was cruel.



Didn't you have a sig about the Executor bombarding the Narutoverse?

*waits for Wesley and about how lightsabers are powered by plot.


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## neodragzero (Jan 6, 2010)

It's not cruel to annihilate an infestation.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

neodragzero said:


> It's not cruel to annihilate an infestation.



then this is an act of mercy


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 6, 2010)

the only way this can be more one-sided is if the ISD is commanded by Thrawn


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

neodragzero said:


> It's not cruel to annihilate an infestation.





He clearly needs to go.


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## neodragzero (Jan 6, 2010)

He's clearly not ZAFT.


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

neodragzero said:


> He's clearly not ZAFT.



The last episode of destiny says otherwise


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## neodragzero (Jan 6, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> The last episode of destiny says otherwise



Lies. :taichou


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)




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## neodragzero (Jan 6, 2010)

It's not my fault ZAFT doesn't properly dispose of soiled, old uniforms. Anyone can find one in their local CEverse trash bin.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

^Zaft Admiral's (equivalent) Uniform for those who don't know

since when do you find an admiral's suit in the trash??


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## Darth Nihilus (Jan 6, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __


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## neodragzero (Jan 6, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> ^Zaft Admiral's (equivalent) Uniform for those who don't know
> 
> since when do you find an admiral's suit in the trash??



Where else do you throw away junk?


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## Crimson King (Jan 6, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> the only way this can be more one-sided is if the ISD is commanded by Thrawn



Thrawn could win with a picket force.


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

A single anti-starfighter battery/turbolaser is rated over 150 megatons. 

This is more fun than a ewok in a barrel shoot out.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 6, 2010)

to paraphrase a post in some old SW vs ST thread, the Imperials would probably think ZAFT is trying to communicate with them while in reality they're actually attacking them 

that's how bad this is


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

@neo: CE is junk, so it would make sense


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

The Captain of the ISD sees one of those shiny Gundams that ZAFT has and orders his sensor officer to tractor it in, sadly it breaks apart under the pressure. The Captain merely orders the officer to continue until one holds.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 6, 2010)

It's Star Wars GE vs Evangelion all over again


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

how well would a single TIE Fighter do against Zaft?


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

Probably not that well but they still have ridiculous firepower ie you've seen what a naboo starfighter's blaster cannons have done in Episode I right? Tie-Fighters are even more powerful, but a squadron of blastboats or squints would be better.


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Can a Gundam even penetrate an X-wing's shields?


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

Depends on the weapon and the firepower the Gundam in case is using here. If your talking about beam sabers, certainly, if your talking about beam rifle, depends on how powerful CE or UC era stuff is.

But starfighters in Star Wars travel and constantly accelerate to near lightspeeds in combat. Their shielding and armor puts them around the kiloton level though.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

TWF said:


> Probably not that well but they still have ridiculous firepower ie you've seen what a naboo starfighter's blaster cannons have done in Episode I right? Tie-Fighters are even more powerful, but a squadron of blastboats or squints would be better.



are you willing to agree that all the TIE-Fighters inside the ISD could rape, however? i mean, they ARE ridiculously agile and fast compared to CE MSs, no? Not to mention firepower....and their armor........


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

CE weapons are pretty damn powerful, considering they have multi-phase weapons and gotta deal with the Gundamns VPSA (Variable Phase Shift Armor). The high-energy cannon used by the Strike Buster blew a hole through the Orb Colony. 4min
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKEpBaV_c8U[/YOUTUBE]

That level of weapon became standard equipment on the ZGMF-1000 Zaku Warrior with the M1500 "Orthos" high-energy long-range beam cannon.


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

which wouldn't scratch the paint of a corellian corvette much less a fucking Star Destroyer.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> CE weapons are pretty damn powerful, considering they have multi-phase weapons and gotta deal with the Gundamns VPSA (Variable Phase Shift Armor). The high-energy cannon used by the Strike Buster blew a hole through the Orb Colony. 4min
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKEpBaV_c8U[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> That level of weapon became standard equipment on the ZGMF-1000 Zaku Warrior with the M1500 "Orthos" high-energy long-range beam cannon.





these things have shields....that can stand up to turbo lasers and ion batteries..... Turbo Lasers can (IIRC) destroy towns in one blast..... they have durasteel armor which is 300,000 times stronger than steel.....

one shot and Zaft ships go boom. thats not even including concussion missiles...... The ZAFT ships and MSs could shoot at it ALL they want, they're not doing ANYTHING to it

an X-Wing could solo CE......hell, it might be able to solo UC (unless Kamille or such can shut it down through TK, elsewise, they're fucked)................


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

I've seen the SD take less and get damaged. Like I said, that's just fucking standard on a Mass-Pro model. Not even up to par with the more current gundams or the Zaku Phantons, Blaze Zaku Phantoms, GouF's, and other MS'. It's actually really funny to see you trying to put up a fight for them. It really is. Effing Destiny solos. TIE-retards never touch it and Shinn goes right in and swordrapes the whole SD.


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

Wrong again.


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

I can't even get mad you're so amusing. You put 1 Star Destroyer against a military super-power who built things that it'd take the Death Star to destroy from the outside. You can make any bogus claim you like. ZAFT fires Genesis or Neo-Genesis and it's over. Shields don't do shit against that thing.


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

Death Star level technology? From ZAFT? lol.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

summary:~6700 terajoules per shot

dear god....if that is ANYWHERE near close, hell even if it is 80% off, CE is FUCKED!

@Raigen: Look above. There's a reason SD were feared. They could destroy entire cities with their turbolasers....and they weren't even its strongest weapons. The Destiny would get fucked over by Concussion Missiles, as would any other MS because wasting good TL power on them would just be a fucking waste of energy

UC (!!!!) couldn't stand a chance against these guys and they are superior to UC. Wth makes you think that CE stands a damned chance when Amuro FUCKING Ray, Char, Kamille, Judah, and the rest of the gang get rapestomped hard by ONE X-Wing?

Dear god, good luck taking out one or two TIE-Fighters.

The SD could tank GENESIS like the overrated shit it is........

and WTF?! HAHAAHAH! When did Genesis destroy a planet?! HAHAAHAHAH!

You say ZAFT is a superpower?! The Galactic Empire controls pretty much the WHOLE FUCKING GALAXY! That's a few billion/trillion times ZAFT's resources and manpower. Not to mention the ability to research and make weapons.....

Death Star>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Executor ISSD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SD>>>>>>>>>>>>X-Wing>>>>>>>>>>>>>GENESIS>>>>>>>>>>>>Archangel>>>>>>>>>>>MSs

^I believe that is to scale


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

Oh please, stop wagging those tiny things. It's pathetic. CE was capable of city-nuking at any time with any number of weapons. N-Jammers from ZAFT fucked over much of that so they made weapons with immense fire-power that were as effective or moreso than nukes. Fuck guys, Destroy Gundam leveled 3 cities in 3min, and that included travel time. Shinn in the Impulse was besting it, as was Kira in Freedom, and Destroy had massive shields and assloads of firepower. The whole design of it was basically a rip of the Psycho Gundam and Big-Zam thrown together.


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Once again, Riagen cements his reputation as whatever he is currently regarded as in the OBD.

Even UC fans like me are admitting that even UC would be horribly rapestomped by a single star destroyer.

edit. I doubt even the moonlight butterfly can even penetrate the shields of a Star destroyer


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen is the OBD's unintentional court jester


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Oh please, stop wagging those tiny things. It's pathetic. CE was capable of city-nuking at any time with any number of weapons. N-Jammers from ZAFT fucked over much of that so they made weapons with immense fire-power that were as effective or moreso than nukes. Fuck guys, Destroy Gundam leveled 3 cities in 3min, and that included travel time. Shinn in the Impulse was besting it, as was Kira in Freedom, and Destroy had massive shields and assloads of firepower. The whole design of it was basically a rip of the Psycho Gundam and Big-Zam thrown together.


.......

N-Jammers actually worked by making Nuclear Reactions impossible which made nuclear weapons/reactors useless. This was even explained in that it the EF was fucked over for a while because they had BIG energy problems because of the majority up until then had been Nuclear Reactor made.

Stop talking out of your ass. What they built were just nukes with N-Jammer Cancellers (in other words...nukes. normal nukes). And even GENESIS and its counter parts used a nuclear core to shoot out what was essentially a gamma beam cannon. hell, GENESIS' name stood for: GAMMA EMISSION BY NUCLEAR EXPLOSION STIMULATE INDUCING SYSTEM! It was essentially a nuke that had all its gamma rays directed into a huge laser!

Nukes are USELESS in SW. Why do you think you never saw them use one? Because they'd do jackshit to these things. I doubt they'd do much damage to fighters even. 

btw, what would GENESIS do to a SD? At most it'd just get the shields off...I doubt it'd destroy the ship................ (this question is for FTW Raigen. Unlike you, he actually knows shit)

And Destroys comparable to SD in shields and weaponry? HAHAHAHAA! The shields on the destroy could not handle about 6 TERRAjoules of shots over and over and over again. And you saw what the destroy did? The SD could do that in a few seconds....with just a few shots.... Dont compare anything from gundam to SW. And Destroys were PATHETIC comapred to Psyco Gundam

Even UC which has superior tech couldn't stop one SD....

@Sazabi: seconded as said above 

hell, an X-Wing or two could do as much so long as it has enough supplies to do it


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

Btw, I never said ZAFT had weapons on par with the DeathStar. I said you needed something with that kind of firepower to take out the big ZAFT weapons, ie the Genesis as it's VPSA makes all of their weapons completely meaningless.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Turbolasers can destroy GENESIS in ONE shot......


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Btw, I never said ZAFT had weapons on par with the DeathStar. I said you needed something with that kind of firepower to take out the big ZAFT weapons, ie the Genesis as it's VPSA makes all of their weapons completely meaningless.



A Star Destroyer can destroy Genesis with only an Anti-fighter battery.


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> A Star Destroyer can destroy Genesis with only an Anti-fighter battery.



 ...     


.......Oh that's too funny.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen....I don't think you understand....the power of the TL is about 6.4 TERRAvolts (thats TV=GVx1000. GV=MVx1000).....thats FAR beyond anything that even Destiny have shown to posses....and the sad part is these aren't even the Heavy Turbo Lasers from the Executor.....


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> ...
> 
> 
> .......Oh that's too funny.



What has Genesis tanked? Lohengrins? Lohengrins had trouble destroying the Goddamn Strike.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> What has Genesis tanked? Lohengrins? Lohengrins had trouble destroying the Goddamn Strike.



Lohengrins can't do a speck of damage to shields either. Whereas the AA turrets on these things can. So yeah, this thing can't reflect that much power. face it Raigen, you've lost...


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## Stroev (Jan 6, 2010)

So I heard Raigen and Wesley are duking it out here.


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Stroev said:


> So I heard Raigen and Wesley are duking it out here.



Wesley hasn't arrived yet. But Raigen is making Wesley level assumptions.


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

Strike was never hit by a Lohengrin. It's the same level of weapon on the Minverva used to break up a section of Junius 7 before it broke through Earth's atmosphere, which is an object so massive that had it gone in intact the results would've been apocalyptic in scale. And btw Muu in the Strike was using a beam-shield to try and block it and still got destroyed. Also, PS-Armor itself is actually weaker to beam attacks, yet the VPSA on the Gnesis was so powerful that direct hits from the Lohengrin didn't even blemish it. It was effectively an impervious defense. No weapon on a SD is gonna scratch it.


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> *Strike was never hit by a Lohengrin.* It's the same level of weapon on the Minverva used to break up a section of Junius 7 before it broke through Earth's atmosphere, which is an object so massive that had it gone in intact the results would've been apocalyptic in scale. And btw Muu in the Strike was using a beam-shield to try and block it and still got destroyed. Also, PS-Armor itself is actually weaker to beam attacks, yet the VPSA on the Gnesis was so powerful that direct hits from the Lohengrin didn't even blemish it. It was effectively an impervious defense. No weapon on a SD is gonna scratch it.



you should Watch Seed before debating for it.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 6, 2010)

Wait... Did he say the Strike never got hit by a Lohengrin in the same paragraph he said it got destroyed by one?


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Strike...wasnt hit by a Lohengrin? Then WTF hit it while Mwu was piloting it?!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukS-9I6-31g[/YOUTUBE]
ooops, i believe that was a Lohengrin  seriously, stfu and know what you're talking about. that thing is so weak it couldn't even completely destroy the pathetic Strike OR kill Mwu.....

So powerful it could bend a CE (!!!!) beam! The more powerful the beam weapon the more energy needed to bend it...yeah, good luck bending a few TJ......not to mention that this is from a civilization where even the smallest fighters that are so easy to get REBELS use them (X-Wings) can go into Hyperspace. Where as SEED/SEED DESTINY has...NO forms of FTL travel????


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## Crimson King (Jan 6, 2010)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Wait... Did he say the Strike never got hit by a Lohengrin in the same paragraph he said it got destroyed by one?



One wonders how his brain processes information.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> One wonders how his brain processes information.


It....doesn't?


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Strike's phase shit can be cancelled by 72 bucue missiles.

lohengrien = 72 conventional missiles.


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## Es (Jan 6, 2010)

Yeah, as a Star Wars vet, it'll be a rapefest in CE. SD> CE. And what Sazabi said about UC too.


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)




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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 6, 2010)

ZAFT gets shafted


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

Do note, since you're selectively illiterate, that I stated that Muu tanked a shot to save the ArchAngel using a beam-shield and was still destroyed by the attack. Also note that the Destroy got blasted by the Tanhauser (equivalent of the Lohengrin) and its shields completely deflected the attack, yet the beam-sabers and Anti-ship sword as used by the Gundams ripped right through them. Destiny Gundam was making the Destroys look like toys and those things don't have the kinda power output that was being used to generate the VPSA for the Genesis.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> Strike's phase shit can be cancelled by 72 bucue missiles.
> 
> lohengrien = 72 conventional missiles.


lets give him the benefit of the doubt and say 80 since it also destroyed the shield and SOME of the suit...... Regardless, SW still rapes


Dear god...I didn't know it could do THAT much.......wow, in EU they have even MORE ridiculous feats......




Gundam Guy said:


> Yeah, as a Star Wars vet, it'll be a rapefest in CE. SD> CE. And what Sazabi said about UC too.


HEY! What about me?!   I've been ignored


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> *Do note, since you're selectively illiterate, that I stated that Muu tanked a shot to save the ArchAngel using a beam-shield and was still destroyed by the attack. *Also note that the Destroy got blasted by the Tanhauser (equivalent of the Lohengrin) and its shields completely deflected the attack, yet the beam-sabers and Anti-ship sword as used by the Gundams ripped right through them. Destiny Gundam was making the Destroys look like toys and those things don't have the kinda power output that was being used to generate the VPSA for the Genesis.





Raigen said:


> *Strike was NEVER hit by a Lohengrin.*


WHAT?! You VERY plainly said, there in bold that the strike was NEVER -fixes it to help you see it- NEVER hit by a Lohengrin......make up your mind, you're even worse than Fuckuda......

yup, and as hard as that first destroy was to kill the others were killed nearly as easily as fodder  they even took on a few of them at the same time when attacking the LOGOS base and they killed them like nothing 

You keep comparing CE Beam Weapons to SW Beam weapons...I cannot see HOW you do that


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Do note, since you're selectively illiterate, that I stated that Muu tanked a shot to save the ArchAngel using a beam-shield


Guess what? That involves getting hit by the cannon which you specifically said the Strike never was. Here, let me quote it for you.


> Strike was never hit by a Lohengrin.


Would you like to rephrase that?



> and was still destroyed by the attack.


Funny, I seem to recall him living...


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

> Strike's phase shit can be cancelled by 72 bucue missiles.
> 
> lohengrien = 72 conventional missiles.



Just, no. Again you ignore the basic fact that Muu blocked it with a Beam Shield. Strike Buster got tagged by missiles because Kira hadn't adjusted to desert terrain yet. After he did, he dodged the freakin missiles. Muu used the Aile Striker pack which included a beam-shield. You do remember the fact the Strike has different inter-changeable packs that alter its weapons and abilities, right?


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen how can you possibly say Mwu never got hit when WE SEE IT HAPPEN ON SCREEN. Granted he comes back in Destiny and his "Death" is ruined but yeah.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Just, no. Again you ignore the basic fact that Muu blocked it with a Beam Shield. Strike Buster got tagged by missiles because Kira hadn't adjusted to desert terrain yet. After he did, he dodged the freakin missiles. Muu used the Aile Striker pack which included a beam-shield. You do remember the fact the Strike has different inter-changeable packs that alter its weapons and abilities, right?



Fine, we'll call it 80 like I said...... And why the hell are you bringing up that battle here? It has absolutely _no_ relevence to this. Watfeld (however you spell it, the cheap, Goufless, Ramba Ral clone) calculated that the SF could tank 72 missiles hit before shutting down its PS


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm beginning to wonder if you people are intentionally ignorant. Muu dove into the attack intentionally in order to protect the ArchAngel and was using a *Beam Shield* (you know, the kinda thing that blocks/deflects *beam attacks*). Different set of circumstances.

Regardless, you all spout the same nonsense saying that SW weapons are better and ships are faster. TIE-fighters ain't gonna win this. CE flat out has better shit. Current MS are quicker on the draw and they got transformable ones. It's pretty basic. Not to mention the whole idea is a crock since you put a singe ship up against dozens of others with hundreds to thousands of MS, including half a dozen or more Gundams, and technically 4 world-raping type weapons.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Regardless, you all spout the same nonsense saying that SW weapons are better and ships are faster



that's because, you know

they actually are


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Muu dove into the attack intentionally in order to protect the ArchAngel and was using a *Beam Shield* (you know, the kinda thing that blocks/deflects *beam attacks*). Different set of circumstances.



It doesn't matter why it happened you fool. No one is saying it happened because the Strike was slow. All that matters is it got hit by the beam and it wasn't completely destroyed. Not only was the head intact per Special Edition retcon but Mwu lived through it. That's not exactly impressive for the cannon.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if you people are intentionally ignorant. Muu dove into the attack intentionally in order to protect the ArchAngel and was using a *Beam Shield* (you know, the kinda thing that blocks/deflects *beam attacks*). Different set of circumstances.
> 
> Regardless, you all spout the same nonsense saying that SW weapons are better and ships are faster. TIE-fighters ain't gonna win this. CE flat out has better shit. Current MS are quicker on the draw and they got transformable ones. It's pretty basic. Not to mention the whole idea is a crock since you put a singe ship up against dozens of others with hundreds to thousands of MS, including half a dozen or more Gundams, and technically 4 world-raping type weapons.


why does this first part matter at all?

none of those weapons were planter busters.... GENESIS wasn't a planet buster and REQUIEM was only a colony buster (which isn't too hard since all you had to do to destroy a ZAFT colony was blow a big enough hole in it. GENESIS was meant IIRC to destroy the Alliance Space Forces and destroy cities to force a victory. Never _once_ did it show the power of a planet-buster

SW weapons _are_ better and faster. Just to prove this point: how many CE things go FTL?


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTRnJpXnc4g[/YOUTUBE]
Let the image sink in for a while. Enough with your lies and wishful thinking people. They're not stopping a Gundam from wreaking havoc and certainly not surviving a single shot like that.


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## Crimson King (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> randomly posting a useless video



I don't see any planets exploding.


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

Its funny how a reactor in a Star Destroyer produces more energy than a small star does when firing its weapons, and all of its main batteries are directly connected to its reactor and powerplants.


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTRnJpXnc4g[/YOUTUBE]
> Let the image sink in for a while. Enough with your lies and wishful thinking people. They're not stopping a Gundam from wreaking havoc and certainly not surviving a single shot like that.



First of all, a star destroyer can easily detect and one shot the genesis before it can even fire, and secondly, it probably can't even penetrate the Star destroyer's shields.


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## Lord Stark (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTRnJpXnc4g[/YOUTUBE]
> Let the image sink in for a while. Enough with your lies and wishful thinking people. They're not stopping a Gundam from wreaking havoc and certainly not surviving a single shot like that.



It was stated by an officer.  That Genesis if fired on earth would destroy half the life on earth.  Did you see the pic TWF posted.  All the life on earth would be destroyed and the crust reduced to molten slag.  
Genesis would do absolutely nothing to an SD.
Oh right and if the Dominion can evade the giant beam.  The Star Destroyer can easily evade it.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

please note how none of those ships had shields (nor the base) as well as that (as shown above in the picture TWF gave) that SW could easily match if not outclass this feat...most likely the latter

Raigen, these ships can go FTL. do you know the technological level needed to do this? Save for going into Plaid there's no higher realm of speed!

-Shield tanks shot-
-SD one-shots GENESIS-


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

And in case anyone is wondering, a Star Destroyer simply jumping into hyperspace produces more energy than the entire United States does in a year.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 6, 2010)

Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> It was stated by an officer.  That Genesis if fired on earth would destroy half the life on earth.  Did you see the pic TWF posted.  All the life on earth would be destroyed and the crust reduced to molten slag.
> Genesis would do absolutely nothing to an SD.



no, it would take a few volleys to do this. but the reason why GENESIS can do that is not because of its own destructive power but because its essentially a gamma cannon. aka=radiation gun. it kills through gamma radiation


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## Crimson King (Jan 6, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> no, it would take a few volleys to do this. but the reason why GENESIS can do that is not because of its own destructive power but because its essentially a gamma cannon. aka=radiation gun. it kills through gamma radiation



Ray shields>>>>>>>>>radiation


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 6, 2010)

Please explain to me how they hope to target something moving at relativisic speed. Their tech level isn't high enough for that.


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## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

Note that no ship in SW is FTL without being in hyperspace and outside of it they're not that fast, not even remotely approaching lightspeed so your ftl argument is completely debunked. They don't fight in FTL, FTL is travel-speed only, not combat speed. So no more of your bullshit people. SD got nuthin to save it here. Their shields can't stop a spiraling X-wing from crashing and causing damage, it ain't stopping the Genesis whose beam traveled hundreds of thousands of miles to hit the Ptolemaeus crater which is 153km in diameter. A SD is 1.6km long. The attack is lightspeed, and outside of hyperspace a SD isn't evading it.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Their shields can't stop a spiraling X-wing from crashing and causing damage



now you're just making stuff up


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 6, 2010)

> The attack is lightspeed, and outside of hyperspace a SD isn't evading it



No it is'nt.


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2010)

Yeah let's ignore the entire Alliance fleet concentrating their firepower on a single point on the Executor


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## Lord Stark (Jan 6, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Note that no ship in SW is FTL without being in hyperspace and outside of it they're not that fast, not even remotely approaching lightspeed so your ftl argument is completely debunked. They don't fight in FTL, FTL is travel-speed only, not combat speed. So no more of your bullshit people. SD got nuthin to save it here. Their shields can't stop a spiraling X-wing from crashing and causing damage, it ain't stopping the Genesis whose beam traveled hundreds of thousands of miles to hit the Ptolemaeus crater which is 153km in diameter. A SD is 1.6km long. The attack is lightspeed, and outside of hyperspace a SD isn't evading it.



LMFAO Genesis isn't Light-speed.  Fricken Natarle had Dominion avoid the blast.  Only the slower old Earth Forces ships were hit by it.  And in SEED: DESTINY the Kusanagi-class ships all avoided it.  SDs are LEAGUES above any CE ship in terms of speed.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 6, 2010)

TWF said:


> Yeah let's ignore the entire Alliance fleet concentrating their firepower on a single point on the Executor



"Concentrate all your fire on that Super Star Destroyer" 

can't argue with Ackbar


----------



## Raigen (Jan 6, 2010)

See, still blowin smoke I see. The attack took a couple seconds to shoot from hundreds of thousands of miles behind the moon to strike at the crater. You guys aren't even bothering to try and do the math. And Genesis is a life-wiper, one shot and Earth is screwed. Not "a couple of shots!" No,* one* shot. That's it. And that's the old version. Neo-Genesis is better and mobile with a giant fucking barrier to protect the whole asteroid. Then there's the Neutron Stampeder which is effectively the same thing as Genesis and slapped onto a Nazca class ship.

Once again though nothing stops Destiny from ripping down the middle of the whole thing.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm confused... Who said anything about FTL combat?


----------



## DIY Death (Jan 7, 2010)

Raigen said:


> See, still blowin smoke I see. The attack took a couple seconds to shoot from hundreds of thousands of miles behind the moon to strike at the crater. You guys aren't even bothering to try and do the math. And Genesis is a life-wiper, one shot and Earth is screwed. Not "a couple of shots!" No,* one* shot. That's it. And that's the old version. Neo-Genesis is better and mobile with a giant fucking barrier to protect the whole asteroid. Then there's the Neutron Stampeder which is effectively the same thing as Genesis and slapped onto a Nazca class ship.
> 
> Once again though nothing stops Destiny from ripping down the middle of the whole thing.



OK. How about you bring some links if you're so sure?


----------



## neodragzero (Jan 7, 2010)

Raigen said:


> See, still blowin smoke I see. The attack took a couple seconds to shoot from hundreds of thousands of miles behind the moon to strike at the crater. You guys aren't even bothering to try and do the math. And Genesis is a life-wiper, one shot and Earth is screwed. Not "a couple of shots!" No,* one* shot. That's it. And that's the old version. Neo-Genesis is better and mobile with a giant fucking barrier to protect the whole asteroid. Then there's the Neutron Stampeder which is effectively the same thing as Genesis and slapped onto a Nazca class ship.


No, it's not lightspeed. This much is incredibly obvious when ships actually move out of the way or the simple matter of base humans having enough time to scratch their heads about it. What the Genesis would do to earth's biosphere was explained well enough to even be a life wiper with only one shot. Neo-Genesis barrier isn't blocking the megatons of firepower the SD easily creates.  The Neutron Stampeder makes nuclear weapons go off prematurely. It isn't a portable form of Genesis as obvious attack patterns go. It's useless against the SD that has a power source well beyond that by miles.

Also, I still find it incredibly funny how you made the "they are only FTL in hyperspace" as if they can't simply jump in and out of hyperspace for an easy ambush the limited verse can't be prepared for at all.


> Once again though nothing stops Destiny from ripping down the middle of the whole thing.


Yeah, it's not like the SD is freaking ginormous or something

Yeah, that's it, you get a neg.


----------



## pikachuwei (Jan 7, 2010)

3 star destroyers (or was it 5, i forgot)

were enough to glass an entire planet. Heck one should be enough, but takes too long

yeah CE is fucked.

the only thing in gundam that stands a chance is if we do a huge mashup

a GN Quin Drive System Turn A with Psychoframe piloted by Amuro Ray who has the martial arts skills of Touhofuhai

and thats still not any guarantee gundam would win.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> *waits for Wesley and about how lightsabers are powered by plot.



They are.

Either this is a stomp or it's not.  Depends how upon you wish to interpret Star Wars.


----------



## Crimson King (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> *They are.*
> 
> Either this is a stomp or it's not.  Depends how upon you wish to interpret Star Wars.



Prove it. Prove it right now.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> Prove it. Prove it right now.



Luke Skywalker's lightsaber cuts through Hijarna stone with ease, while exploding and fragmenting after slashing a silcon-based lifeform in an earlier novel.


----------



## Crimson King (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Luke Skywalker's lightsaber cuts through Hijarna stone with ease, while exploding and fragmenting after slashing a silcon-based lifeform in an earlier novel.



1. KJA fucking sucks at writing Star Wars.
2. You don't even know what the stone and scale are made of.
3. You don't know you don't know the toughness of the scale nor do you know the toughness of the stone.

Try again.


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 7, 2010)

Hey...I didn't mind the Jedi Academy Trillogy. 
More Exar Kun so that was cool.

Though KJA's comics were better.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> 1. KJA fucking sucks at writing Star Wars.



Irrelevant.



> 2. You don't even know what the stone and scale are made of.



The creature was made of silicon and the stone could withstand turbolaser blasts.



> 3. You don't know you don't know the toughness of the scale nor do you know the toughness of the stone.



Here's something from G-Canon; lightsabers melt metal on contact, yet they don't turn people into clouds of steam.


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 7, 2010)

Huge rape, BTW for proof of high sublight speeds for Star Destroyers look at ANH, you can see the Millenium Falcon quickly departing from Tatooine and the ISDs are overtaking it until the jump to hyperspace, also in ROTJ you can see them maneuvering around Endor, IIRC that was calced at thousands of Gs.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Jan 7, 2010)

GENESIS cant take out _all_ life on Earth with _one_ shot for that it'd need more. and you're still forgetting that these things have radiation shields too, really good ones essentially making GENESIS useless.

and the deflector shields stops Destiny from cutting through the SD. and even if it could get close enough (which it cant) it would get instantly incinerated by Turbolaser fire. and could its weapons even cut through durasteel??


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> GENESIS cant take out _all_ life on Earth with _one_ shot for that it'd need more. and you're still forgetting that these things have radiation shields too, really good ones essentially making GENESIS useless.
> 
> and the deflector shields stops Destiny from cutting through the SD. and even if it could get close enough (which it cant) it would get instantly incinerated by Turbolaser fire. and could its weapons even cut through durasteel??



Asteriods >>> Star Destroyers!  Not being able to evade a Star Destroyer they literally saw coming at them from miles away!  Breech-loaded Turbolasers with yields lower than a ton of explosives!  All of it G-Canon!  

And no, Genesis can't destroy all life on the planet, but it can burn a continent.  That's in the neighborhood of what Star Wars is said to be able to do at the highest levels.


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Asteriods >>> Star Destroyers!  Not being able to evade a Star Destroyer they literally saw coming at them from miles away!  Breech-loaded Turbolasers with yields lower than a ton of explosives!  All of it G-Canon!



Except, you know, the shields were down for the holoconference. The rest of the ships were in there for weeks and didn't take any damage.



> And no, Genesis can't destroy all life on the planet, but it can burn a continent.  That's in the neighborhood of what *Star Wars is said to be able to do at the highest levels.*



Uh....


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Except, you know, the shields were down for the holoconference. The rest of the ships were in there for weeks and didn't take any damage.



Except, you know, shield tech is reliant upon material science, since your shield generators will be subjected to the same amount of force as any shield they produce.  It's not really any different than a regular man carrying an unbreakable shield.  If he gets hit by a falling building, he's still going to get crushed, even he uses the shield to protect himself, since he'll simply be squashed by the shield instead.



> Uh....



I meant turbolasers.  Although, in terms of scale, Genesis is probably better than the Death Star.


----------



## Sazabi24 (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Except, you know, shield tech is reliant upon material science, since your shield generators will be subjected to the same amount of force as any shield they produce.  It's not really any different than a regular man carrying an unbreakable shield.  If he gets hit by a falling building, he's still going to get crushed, even he uses the shield to protect himself, since he'll simply be squashed by the shield instead.
> 
> I meant turbolasers.  Although, in terms of scale, Genesis is probably better than the Death Star.



*insert wall of ryoma here*

very good comeback Wesley, calling me a stupid piece of shit in a neg doesnt help the fact that you're* FUCKING BLIND*


----------



## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley, when has Genesis busted a planet again?




Wesley said:


> And no, Genesis can't destroy all life on the planet, but it can burn a continent.  That's in the neighborhood of what Star Wars is said to be able to* do at the highest levels*.



Death Star
Galaxy Gun
Sun Crusher

Wasn't there a bomb somewhere that could destroy several solar systems at once?

Hell, there are PEOPLE who have shown more damage on their own. Like Nihilus nuking a planet with his mind.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Jan 7, 2010)

Genesis more powerful than a Death Star?! HAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH Dumbass, I don't know whether it's hilarious or sad. I don't remember anything about burning a continent but... Let's say for _once_ you are right. Death Star can destroy a _whole_ _planet_. Planet>>>>>>Continent

oh, since when can't SD shoot down asteroids? they do it all the time.....

and what the hell does that last post mean? the shields were _down_ for a holoconference. they were off. it had no shields. all the other ships were fine because they had shields on......shields can easily tank asteroids......

and SD turbo-laser yields are lower than a ton of TNT??? HOW is 6.7TJ less than a ton of TNT?????


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Except, you know, shield tech is reliant upon material science, since your shield generators will be subjected to the same amount of force as any shield they produce.  It's not really any different than a regular man carrying an unbreakable shield.  If he gets hit by a falling building, he's still going to get crushed, even he uses the shield to protect himself, since he'll simply be squashed by the shield instead.



Which is related to KE, not necessary yield, and you would need a lot over a long time, assuming they perform no maintenance on the shield generators at all. Again I point out that Death Squadron was inside the asteroid field for weeks and almost all of their shielded craft took no damage at all.



> I meant turbolasers.  Although, in terms of scale, Genesis is probably better than the Death Star.



You know if the Death Star was reduced to the size of a marble it will still have gigaton+ firepower right?


----------



## paulatreides0 (Jan 7, 2010)

IIRC in one EU story they made a Deathstar that was essentially just the cannon and power source and it was pretty small compared to the original. It still had planet busting ability while being roughly the size of genesis if not smaller.

oh yes, it was called the darksaber:

^linky there

also, about the Death Star's destructive power...


> One drawback of the original design was the power systems. Twenty-four hours were required to fully charge the laser. *However, even low power shots were capable of massive destruction on a planetary scale.*


its also stated somewhere in that article that the death star could easily destroy even large _shielded_ planets


thats the whole like up there


----------



## Es (Jan 7, 2010)

Genisis better then a Death Star? Damn Wesley does say some stupid shite.


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

Also .4 percent power of an incomplete Death Star's blast wiped out a Lucherhulk-class warship a few weeks before the events of the battle of Yavin.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Zetta said:


> Wesley, when has Genesis busted a planet again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn you bastards.  We were talking about a f-ing Star Destroyer here.  You know that little thing that thing that dishes out terratons of energy according to the ICS?  As far as Star Destroyers go, the ICS is as high as it gets.

You puke stains, you're twisting my words.


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

Oh man, he said puke stains. ICS must be pretty important when BDZing was referenced for a long time before it and 150 to 200 megaton blasts were calced for a single light battery.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Which is related to KE, not necessary yield, and you would need a lot over a long time, assuming they perform no maintenance on the shield generators at all. Again I point out that Death Squadron was inside the asteroid field for weeks and almost all of their shielded craft took no damage at all.



It doesn't matter if it's KE.  If the shields are holding a uniform shape and radiation isn't simply being dumped into space willy nilly, which would be very inefficient, then the shield generators are going to feel it when hit by something, whether it's an asteriod or an energy beam.



> You know if the Death Star was reduced to the size of a marble it will still have gigaton+ firepower right?



Well, burning North America and then some would take alot more than gigaton-level firepower.  Then again, I'm not entirely sure how big Genesis is so let's just forget it.



TWF said:


> Oh man, he said puke stains. ICS must be pretty important when BDZing was referenced for a long time before it and 150 to 200 megaton blasts were calced for a single light battery.



BDZing wasn't around when the films were first made.

Besides, my main point is that Star Wars canon is a mess and you can find justification for believeing most anything somewhere.


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 7, 2010)

Actually if you simply scale down from the size of the Death's Star's reactor based on the destruction of Alderaan to turbolasers you get much higher values than what the ICS indicates.

Considering it's stated that the superlaser is formed from turbolaser pulses, the technology is the same.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Actually if you simply scale down from the size of the Death's Star's reactor based on the destruction of Alderaan to turbolasers you get much higher values than what the ICS indicates.
> 
> Considering it's stated that the superlaser is formed from turbolaser pulses, the technology is the same.



Does that take into account the ROF disparity?

Of course, the Death Star novel states that the Death Star is a technobabble weapon as opposed to a DET weapon, much to the chagrin of fans everywhere.


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> It doesn't matter if it's KE.  If the shields are holding a uniform shape and radiation isn't simply being dumped into space willy nilly, which would be very inefficient, then the shield generators are going to feel it when hit by something, whether it's an asteriod or an energy beam.



The point of a *deflector* shield is that it reradiates energy back outwards.



> Well, burning North America and then some would take alot more than gigaton-level firepower.  Then again, I'm not entirely sure how big Genesis is so let's just forget it.



Concession Accepted?



> BDZing wasn't around when the films were first made



Neither was 99% of the canon.

I suppose Grand Admiral Thrawn, Coruscant, Mace Windu, The Separatists, The Ancient Sith Lords, General Grievous, battle droids, the Corporate Sector, and about a billion other things don't actually exist in SWverse because they weren't mentioned in the original trilogy, right?


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Neither was 99% of the canon.
> 
> I suppose Grand Admiral Thrawn, Coruscant, Mace Windu, The Separatists, The Ancient Sith Lords, General Grievous, battle droids, the Corporate Sector, and about a billion other things don't actually exist in SWverse because they weren't mentioned in the original trilogy, right?



If you asked George Lucas, it doesn't exist unless it's in the films.  Besides, I don't need to use the films to poke holes in the 40,000 ton matter anniliation blasts.  There's plenty of low showings in the comics or novels.  Not all of them by KJA either.



Endless Mike said:


> The point of a *deflector* shield is that it reradiates energy back outwards.



So I guess it's alright for me to grab onto a speeding car so long as I immediately fling it into the opposite direction?


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Does that take into account the ROF disparity?
> 
> Of course, the Death Star novel states that the Death Star is a technobabble weapon as opposed to a DET weapon, much to the chagrin of fans everywhere.



That's not what it states at all, it says that some of the matter of Alderaan was "boosted" into hyperspace by the force of blast. That just serves to emphasize the power of the weapon. We can see by the explosion and asteroid field that most of its mass was still there. It's like when Black Bolt's scream is so powerful it rips through time and space. No one claims that makes it weaker, except trolls and tards.


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> If you asked George Lucas, it doesn't exist unless it's in the films.



No, he said that the EU is part of the canon, but the stories he wants to personally tell are in the films. Otherwise why would he appoint Leland Chee to the position of organizing the canon? We've dealt with this shit already.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> That's not what it states at all, it says that some of the matter of Alderaan was "boosted" into hyperspace by the force of blast. That just serves to emphasize the power of the weapon. We can see by the explosion and asteroid field that most of its mass was still there. It's like when Black Bolt's scream is so powerful it rips through time and space. No one claims that makes it weaker, except trolls and tards.



Yes, that's what they like to tell themselves, however, you also have things like vaporizing a large lake at 1% power.  An order of magnitude would not have made that much of a difference, unless there was some kind of chain reaction.  And chain reactions _piss off_ Warsies.  



Endless Mike said:


> No, he said that the EU is part of the canon, but the stories he wants to personally tell are in the films. Otherwise why would he appoint Leland Chee to the position of organizing the canon? We've dealt with this shit already.



And you will continue to do so forever and ever!


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Jan 7, 2010)

Keeper of the Holocron, quite. I love it when people question the canonicity of a series, especially Star Wars with the same shit saying that the movies are the only canon.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Keeper of the Holocron, quite. I love it when people question the canonicity of a series, especially Star Wars with the same shit saying that the movies are the only canon.



It's the highest level of canon and besides the Death Star and maybe Hyperspace, it's full of low showings.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley, shut the fuck up


----------



## Endless Mike (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> So I guess it's alright for me to grab onto a speeding car so long as I immediately fling it into the opposite direction?



Obviously the shields are not completely invincible to anything. But they can dissipate energy rapidly. Consider the incident when an SSD's shields held against 3 ISD's jumping out of hyperspace and slamming into it.



Wesley said:


> Yes, that's what they like to tell themselves, however, you also have things like vaporizing a large lake at 1% power.  An order of magnitude would not have made that much of a difference, unless there was some kind of chain reaction.  And chain reactions _piss off_ Warsies.



You are simply making things up now.


----------



## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Damn you bastards.  We were talking about a f-ing Star Destroyer here.  You know that little thing that thing that dishes out terratons of energy according to the ICS?  As far as Star Destroyers go, the ICS is as high as it gets.
> 
> You puke stains, you're twisting my words.



I like how you edited your own post in order to hide what you said.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Obviously the shields are not completely invincible to anything. But they can dissipate energy rapidly. Consider the incident when an SSD's shields held against 3 ISD's jumping out of hyperspace and slamming into it.



Or being wtfpwned by a couple hundred proton torpedoes, which begs the question of why you need ships the size of the Executor in the first place if significantly smaller vessels pose a substational threat to it.



> You are simply making things up now.



It's in the novel.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Or being wtfpwned by a couple hundred proton torpedoes



since when


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> It's the highest level of canon and besides the Death Star and maybe Hyperspace, it's full of low showings.



Aside from the novels and comics, hurr durr.


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

The only persons who consecutively wrote that Star Destroyers have problems with individual fighters is Stackpole and Travis. Both whom are nut jobs for very different reasons.

And Stackpole doesn't know shit about anything that involves capital ships anyways, in the same novel from Rogue Squadron, a flight of X-Wings troubled and heavily damaged a Super Star Destroyer while a regular Star Destroyer did just fine.

Stackpole for being on the nuts of a fighter jockeys in Star Wars and Travis for wanking Mandalorian fighters talking out a Super Star Destroyer. If your going to use horribly inconsistent DEM events, you might want to try harder with better evidence.

Or are X-Wing Alliance feats in-game suddenly canonical as well?


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Zetta said:


> I like how you edited your own post in order to hide what you said.



That's what the edit button is for.  What I said wasn't wrong, it simply could be misunderstood.


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

Editing your post won't hide your original content.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

TWF said:


> The only persons who consecutively wrote that Star Destroyers have problems with individual fighters is Stackpole and Travis. Both whom are nut jobs for very different reasons.
> 
> Stackpole for being on the nuts of a fighter jockeys in Star Wars and Travis for wanking Mandalorian fighters talking out a Super Star Destroyer. If your going to use horribly inconsistent DEM events, you might want to try harder with better evidence.
> 
> Or are X-Wing Alliance feats in-game suddenly canonical as well?



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETFNSVNQqfE[/YOUTUBE]

I need a new emoticon.  Kukuku just doesn't do it anymore.  



TWF said:


> Editing your post won't hide your original content.



I have nothing to hide.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

"Concentrate all your fire on that Super Star Destroyer"


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

Yeah, the entire fucking Alliance fleet concentrating their firepower on the deflector shields of the Executor.

You know the same fleet that was stated in the narration as " surpassing the depths and fields of human vision in its breath and size ". Learn what the hell your talking about.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

TWF said:


> Yeah, the entire fucking Alliance fleet concentrating their firepower on the deflector shields of the Executor.
> 
> You know the same fleet that was stated in the narration as " surpassing the depths and fields of human vision in its breath and size ". Learn what the hell your talking about.



Ah, but that's not apparent in the films.  Really, if the capital ships were doing such a number on the Executor, there should have been giant burning holes leaking out of everywhere instead of just the bridge of the ship.  Besides, if a handful of Rebel capital ships can threaten something that is 100 times their size, then the later is a complete waste of resources.


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

Ackbar fucking says it what the hell. CD even posted the god damn video.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Ah, but that's not apparent in the films.  Really, if the capital ships were doing such a number on the Executor, there should have been giant burning holes leaking out of everywhere instead of just the bridge of the ship.  Besides, if a handful of Rebel capital ships can threaten something that is 100 times their size, then the later is a complete waste of resources.



the movie>>>>your bullshit


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

TWF said:


> Ackbar fucking says it what the hell. CD even posted the god damn video.



I posted the video, thank you very much.  He says "concentrate your fire!" and then we see a couple fighters attacking, and then the Executor dies.  What are you supposed to think from that?

Hell, I think you'd be hard pressed to see the Mon Calamari ships doing anything other than being blown up by the Death Star.  Did they even fire a single shot in the film?



Crimson Dragoon said:


> the movie>>>>your bullshit



I'm only using the film!


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

you really think the concentrate your fire line refers to just a bunch of starfighters when Ackbar had a whole fucking fleet to work with

you're being fucking dense


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> you really think the concentrate your fire line refers to just a bunch of starfighters when Ackbar had a whole fucking fleet to work with
> 
> you're being fucking dense



If I had to go by what was depicted in the film...yes.  The only damage dealt to the Executor was done by the fighters.  The only ships that attacked the Star Destroyers besides *one* N-B were fighters.  

Star Wars in the films doesn't like letting capital ships do much of anything except get blown up does it?


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

The entire Alliance fleet of five starfighters. Yes, exactly.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> If I had to go by what was depicted in the film...yes.  The only damage dealt to the Executor was done by the fighters.



because, and this may shock you, the fleet has been softening it up

nothing in the movies even suggests that fighters can threaten capital ships


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

TWF said:


> The entire Alliance fleet of five starfighters. Yes, exactly.



"Red group, gold group, *all* fighters follow me!"  And what do we see?  Half a dozen ships following after the Falcon.


----------



## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> That's what the edit button is for.  What I said wasn't wrong, it simply could be misunderstood.





> And no, Genesis can't destroy all life on the planet, but it can burn a continent.* That's in the neighborhood of what Star Wars is said to be able to do at the highest levels.*


This is what you fucking said.

This is not misunderstandable. This is you not knowing Star Wars.

You know, making a mistake in the OBD isn't bad. If you admit to it and concede, people won't care.

Trying to hide your incompetance after the fact is very bad.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> "Red group, gold group, *all* fighters follow me!"  And what do we see?  Half a dozen ships following after the Falcon.


ahahaha, you're really going to defend your nonsense 

the UFP vs GE thread is the thread for you then because you're in the wrong place


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Zetta said:


> This is what you fucking said.
> 
> This is not misunderstandable. This is you not knowing Star Wars.
> 
> ...



I already clarified what I meant.  I was refering to turbolasers.  A poor choice of words, nothing more.  Obviously I know alot about Star Wars, even if I'm not quite as ready to debate it as some of you around here.

And if I admit an error, you would never forgive it.  That's just how *petty* you are.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> because, and this may shock you, the fleet has been softening it up
> 
> nothing in the movies even suggests that fighters can threaten capital ships



According to one novel, a group of B-Wings destroyed a Star Destroyer.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> ahahaha, you're really going to defend your nonsense
> 
> the UFP vs GE thread is the thread for you then because you're in the wrong place



I'm only defending my position that there's alot of room for most arguements in regards to Star Wars.  That moster thread on Spacebattles is proof of that.

Personally, I like the ICS, but I do recognize the contradictions.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

then go to that monster thread instead of peddling your nonsense here

by the way, in the DS2 scenes where Luke is confronting Vader and the Emperor, there are clearly visible flashes of light seen outside the station which indicate a battle between the two fleets

you can even hear the sounds of it just for emphasis


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> "Red group, gold group, *all* fighters follow me!"  And what do we see?  Half a dozen ships following after the Falcon.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

" We've got to give those fighters more time. Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer! "

" Sir we've lost the bridge deflector shields! "

And you also see a fucking Star Destroyer blow up around the Executor when engaged with a Mon Cal cruiser of the same tonnage as Home One.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

TWF said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ[/YOUTUBE]



I'm curious, but what's your point?  Otherwise, I'm finished here as I think I've sufficiently made my point.

Also, next time I post in Outskirts, I would appreciate it if certain individuals would not neg rep me as a goddamn reflex.


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## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

you get negged for making bad posts. 

also again that your completely wrong on everything you said par-usual. " fighters killing star destroyers " crap.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

also, during the majority of the Endor fleet battle, the fighters weren't doing shit to any ISD and were minor irritants at best   

the only time we see a fighter do actually anything is when the SSD's shields were taken down by the fleet


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## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> I'm curious, but what's your point?  Otherwise, I'm finished here as I think I've sufficiently made my point.
> 
> Also, next time I post in Outskirts, I would appreciate it if certain individuals would not neg rep me as a goddamn reflex.



You have no point.

The ISD shoots Genesis out of the sky from thousands of miles away and then freaking ignores the entire Zaft fleet as the Fighters can take care of them.

Oh, and negged.


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## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

yeah and half the time you see cruisers and destroyers saddling up next to each other at point blank (hundreds of kilometers) and barraging each other before any starfighter specifically attacks them.


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

TWF said:


> you get negged for making bad posts.



No, I get negged for making posts period.  What I say doesn't matter.  You're simply trying to harass me.


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## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Without knowledge of how to take them down and how to take out the deflector shields, they might as well be trying to destroy a building with a water pistol.



Wesley said:


> No, I get negged for making posts period.  What I say doesn't matter.  You're simply trying to harass me.



No, it's just that most of your post are just bad.


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## Sazabi24 (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> No, I get negged for making posts period.  What I say doesn't matter.  You're simply trying to harass me.



Or just it just means all the posts you make are bad ones.

you wouldn't be negged if what you said didn't matter.


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## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> No, I get negged for making posts period.  What I say doesn't matter.  You're simply trying to harass me.



WESLEY NEGGED ME! :amazed

HE'S HARASSING ME!!!


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Zetta said:


> No, it's just that most of your post are just bad.



It's a tactic some of you turds around here like to use.  You neg rep someone that disagrees with you repeatedly.  Like clock work.  It doesn't actually matter what they say, so long as they disagree with you somehow.  How they disagree with you doesn't matter.

You* abuse *the rep system in hopes of winning a debate.  As a means of *harassing* people that have disagreed with you.  I don't have to do anything other than point to Lightmaster's or Raigen's rep bars and the battle convo thread to prove that this is a loosely organized effort.

You neg someone or are negged by someone and then you *brag* about it to your cohorts, encouraging them to do the same.  And then you hide behind the "no revenge neg" rule.  You abuse the system, using it in a way that it's not intended to be used.


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## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> It's a tactic some of you turds around here like to use.  You neg rep someone that disagrees with you repeatedly.  Like clock work.  It doesn't actually matter what they say, so long as they disagree with you somehow.  How they disagree with you doesn't matter.
> 
> You* abuse *the rep system in hopes of winning a debate.  As a means of *harassing* people that have disagreed with you.  I don't have to do anything other than point to Lightmaster's or Raigen's rep bars and the battle convo thread to prove that this is a loosely organized effort.
> 
> You neg someone or are negged by someone and then you *brag* about it to your cohorts, encouraging them to do the same.  And then you hide behind the "no revenge neg" rule.  You abuse the system, using it in a way that it's not intended to be used.



You mean Lightmaster's green rep?

Maybe if your posts weren't so bad, we'd rep you.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> If you asked George Lucas, it doesn't exist unless it's in the films.


Lucas admits that EU is canon....he even helps with some of the stuff too... (such as Force Unleashed)



Wesley said:


> Besides, if a handful of Rebel capital ships can threaten something that is 100 times their size, then the later is a complete waste of resources.


yes, because, you know, sending out several dozen ships 
(and thats a conservative count too...) to destroy a shield which wears down with use, each ship having well over a few dozen turbo-laser batteries



Wesley said:


> Hell, I think you'd be hard pressed to see the Mon Calamari ships doing anything other than being blown up by the Death Star.  Did they even fire a single shot in the film?


yes, they do. mon calamari classes were actually pretty good ships capable of fighting well even against empire ships. go read a wiki page if you need to......



Wesley said:


> *Obviously I know alot about Star Wars*
> 
> And if I admit an error, you would never forgive it.  That's just how *petty* you are.


! Almost as you do about gundam!!  

they're not petty. i've been wrong and corrected myself....and i'm well enough



Wesley said:


> I'm curious, but what's your point?  Otherwise, I'm finished here as I think I've sufficiently made my point.


you've made a point?! 

he was saying that they did exactly what you said they didnt. i.e.: the capital ships attacked the executor to weaken its shields. Ackbar ordered the WHOLE FLEET to do it.

and I think its been time... -negs-


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Zetta said:


> You mean Lightmaster's green rep?



That's only because positive rep is worth more than negative rep.  Especially when the positive donor has over 100,000 in reputation.  

And I don't make bad posts.  I've made posts where I was _completely in the right_ and been neg repped for them, simply because I was on the other side of a debate.  What I say doesn't actually matter.  It's a tactic to either make me go away or piss me off.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 7, 2010)

No, you just think you do but you know jack shit about anything. There are atleast three fictions you've proven to not know anything about. We don't have to piss you off, you that just fine yourself judging by how you neg people for even calling your posts bad.


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Lucas admits that EU is canon....he even helps with some of the stuff too... (such as Force Unleashed)



He's also stated that as far as the films are concerned, nothing in the EU matters.



> yes, because, you know, sending out several dozen ships
> (and thats a conservative count too...) to destroy a shield which wears down with use, each ship having well over a few dozen turbo-laser batteries



See, according to some people, the shields don't actually wear down.  No hit points.  They offer protection until there is a power loss or the shields are penetrated with coordinated fire.  That the shields have to be overwhelmed as opposed to worn down.

Besides, the Executor out massed the entire Rebel Fleet ten to one.  It should have been able to fight off the Rebels all on it's own, but it didn't, which makes one wonder why they even built the thing in the first place.



> yes, they do. mon calamari classes were actually pretty good ships capable of fighting well even against empire ships. go read a wiki page if you need to......



I'm well aware of the various descriptions about Mon Cal ships.  That they're converted luxury liners.  That they have really good shields.  That they carry lots of fighters (Home One/Independence? carried over 100 of them).  But in the film, do you actually ever see a Rebel crusier fire a shot?



> ! Almost as you do about gundam!!



No, I can confidently say that I know alot more about the Star Wars franchise than I do about Gundam.



> they're not petty. i've been wrong and corrected myself....and i'm well enough



That's because you were quick to gang up with them against others.  You're one of *them* now.



> you've made a point?!



Yes; that Star Wars canon supports many arguements that are directly opposed to one another.  What it comes down to is use of rehtoric and sounding more right or wrong than the other guy.



> he was saying that they did exactly what you said they didnt. i.e.: the capital ships attacked the executor to weaken its shields. Ackbar ordered the WHOLE FLEET to do it.



Just like how Lando ordered all fighters to follow him.


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## Crimson King (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> The creature was made of silicon and the stone could withstand turbolaser blasts.



And...?

For all you know the creature could have effects on lightsabers like cortosis.



Wesley said:


> Here's something from G-Canon; lightsabers melt metal on contact, yet they don't turn people into clouds of steam.



How the hell is that relevant to toughness?

coughmandalorianironcough

Edit:

I'm going to neg you Wesley. I'll even explain it so you won;t throw a tantrum. Your make retarded claims and don't back them up. You ignore other people's claims and just post the same thing over and over again even though it's been countered every time.


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> And...?
> 
> For all you know the creature could have effects on lightsabers like cortosis.



That's another thing; cortosis ore was said in one novel, maybe two, that it turns _off_ lightsabers if those lightsabers used a common form of circutry.  Other works say that the ore can actually *withstand* lightsabers directly.  



> How the hell is that relevant to toughness?
> 
> coughmandalorianironcough



My point is that Lightsabers are as inconsistent as anything else.  They tend to over perform though because they're wielded by main characters and a staple character class in the series.


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## Lucaniel (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley, whining about getting negged is really sad.

No, really, it's pathetic.

If you're going to troll the OBD with bullshit, take your negs like a man, or just GTFO. You're an eyesore.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 7, 2010)

> He's also stated that as far as the films are concerned, nothing in the EU matters





> We have what we call Canon, which is the screenplays, novelizations, and other works that are directly tied into continuity, and then there are a lot of marginal things, like the old Marvel Comics series, that we don't really try to work into the continuity when we're planning new projects. Even the LucasArts interactive games have a premise, a backstory with player characters that we're trying to tie into the overall continuity. It is sort of a godlike undertaking. We are creating this universe as we go along, but somebody has to keep his finger on everything that came before.
> 
> — Allan Kausch, from The Secrets of Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire





> LUCAS: "I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. *But I do try to keep it consistent*. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."



Got it? From Lucas himself. Yeah most of it stays consistent barring a few. Different writers and all this is expected.


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## Crimson King (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> That's another thing; cortosis ore was said in one novel, maybe two, that it turns _off_ lightsabers if those lightsabers used a common form of circutry.  Other works say that the ore can actually *withstand* lightsabers directly.


 Are you stupid? Did you not read Visions of the Future? Cortosis ORE turns off lightsabers. Cortosis ALLOY resists lightsabers.



Wesley said:


> My point is that Lightsabers are as inconsistent as anything else.  They tend to over perform though because they're wielded by main characters and a staple character class in the series.



Your posts are the only thing that's inconsistent.


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## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> He's also stated that as far as the films are concerned, nothing in the EU matters.



So why are several events, characters, and ships in the Special Edition versions of the original trilogy as well as all the prequel films; all of which originated directly from EU and not Lucas? Uh ooooooooooooh.



> Just like how Lando ordered all fighters to follow him.



Five starfighters following the Falcon equate to dozens or hundreds of starfighters now? SMH.


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## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> That's only because positive rep is worth more than negative rep.  Especially when the positive donor has over 100,000 in reputation.
> 
> And I don't make bad posts.  I've made posts where I was _completely in the right_ and been neg repped for them, simply because I was on the other side of a debate.  What I say doesn't actually matter.  It's a tactic to either make me go away or piss me off.



You think we can't neg that down?

My fucking rep is 300 000 smartass. Neg = 1/2 rep so I alone could neg that away and then some.

Your posts are bad Wesley, the sooner you accept that and shape up, the better. I'm not the only one who says so. Several people in the Claymore thread/FC and from SL say the same.


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

See?  That's him not caring about the novels, besides him trying to avoid stealing ideas from them.  He's not interested in working with the EU.  He just wants it to not contradict his own works too badly.


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## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

So you basically admit you have no idea of what your talking about, awesome. 

Like the scar from the TCW animated cartoons Anakin got from Ventress, which shows up in RoTS. 

Uh oh.


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## Crimson King (Jan 7, 2010)

Revenge negging now Wesley? I thought I told you not to whine. Enjoy your seal.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 7, 2010)

You are aware that this applies mostly to the novels but he does care about them being consistent as possible so yes they can be used as long as they do not contradict. Lucas himself has changed things in the original trilogy. First he changed the actor who played the Emperor and then replaced the image of Sebastian Shaw with Hayden in the ending of the final movie.

Clone Wars the cartoon and force unleashed for example are canon.


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Zetta said:


> You think we can't neg that down?
> 
> My fucking rep is 300 000 smartass. Neg = 1/2 rep so I alone could neg that away and then some.



Yes, I know.  I had to keep working at it while you wankers were distracted.



> Your posts are bad Wesley, the sooner you accept that and shape up, the better. I'm not the only one who says so. Several people in the Claymore thread/FC and from SL say the same.



It doesn't matter if the post is bad or not.  You need no justification other than I am the one making them.  

And I have pissed off alot of people over the years.  I'm not proud of it and I regret certain past conduct, but that does not mean that everything I say is stupid or wrong or deserving of contempt.  If you have such a huge problem with me and everything I say, put me on your ignore lists.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 7, 2010)

> CHEE: "GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, *the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not* *The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films"*



Do you understand? EU is not separate at all.



> while you wankers were distracted



Kira Yamato is mach 10


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## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Yes, I know.  I had to keep working at it while you wankers were distracted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's stupid Wesley.

This is a debate forum. Plugging your ears and going LALALALALA is not debate. In order to prove our argument, we have to reply to every post INCLUDING your bad ones.


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> You are aware that this applies mostly to the novels but he does care about them being consistent as possible so yes they can be used as long as they do not contradict. Lucas himself has changed things in the original trilogy. First he changed the actor who played the Emperor and then replaced the image of Sebastian Shaw with Hayden in the ending of the final movie.
> 
> Clone Wars the cartoon and force unleashed for example are canon.



I know they've changed things alot, even at the G-Canon level.  Point in case, how many different ways has Shaak Ti died throughout the 
franchise?  



Tranquil Fury said:


> Do you understand? EU is not separate at all.



You just made a post that explained that George Lucas has established two universes.



> Kira Yamato is mach 10



That was you ignoring and twisting what I actually said.


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## KazeYama (Jan 7, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Do you understand? EU is not separate at all.



EU authors have to conform to what Lucas has established in the films and now the television series. Lucas can take things from the EU or retcon them at any time and EU authors have to deal with it. 

However so long as the EU people play within the guidelines Lucas has set anything they write is considered to be canon. Lucas takes precedent in setting canon but unless an EU author contradicts it they will be considered canon as well.

Good example is the recent issue with mandalorians. Lucas is putting mandalorians in the animated clone wars series and giving them an original backstory which will overwrite the previous mandalorian history. However this won't effect other EU like what happens to Boba Fett and the mandalorians after the films. 

What does this have to do with the thread though. Unless ZAFT finds a way to run a colony into the Star Destroyer they don't really have anything to take it out.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 7, 2010)

Nothing, Wesley brought this up to distract everyone and yes I agreed with what you have said, it was in the quotes as well. Regardless ZAFT is screwed here.


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## Sylar (Jan 7, 2010)

This is just sad.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2010)

sadder than Heroes Season 2 and 3


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## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

The shit with the Mandalorians in the new TCW series has nothing to do with the Mandalorian history. In fact its just further proof that Lucas uses EU since Lucas never even created or said anything about Mandalorians in the original films or prequels, that was all EU.


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## KazeYama (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> I know they've changed things alot, even at the G-Canon level.  Point in case, how many different ways has Shaak Ti died throughout the
> franchise?



She has only died once which is in the force unleashed. Her death was never retconned or anything either. George Lucas shot her death scene in ROTS decided he wanted to keep her alive and took the scene out. Just because the scene was shot doesn't mean it was ever canon since it never made it to the final cut. 

Better example is Eeth Koth who recently came back to life in the Clone Wars when other books had said he died during the Geonosis battle.



> The shit with the Mandalorians in the new TCW series has nothing to do with the Mandalorian history. In fact its just further proof that Lucas uses EU since Lucas never even created or said anything about Mandalorians in the original films or prequels, that was all EU.



The Mandalorians in Clone Wars invalidates some of the Karen Traviss novels which is why she got all pissy and quit writing Star Wars books cause she thought she was the end all in terms of mandalorian canon and Lucas undercut her.


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## Wesley (Jan 7, 2010)

TWF said:


> The shit with the Mandalorians in the new TCW series has nothing to do with the Mandalorian history. In fact its just further proof that Lucas uses EU since Lucas never even created or said anything about Mandalorians in the original films or prequels, that was all EU.



Was Coruscant taken from the EU?  It wasn't in the original films.



KazeYama said:


> She has only died once which is in the force unleashed. Her death was never retconned or anything either. George Lucas shot her death scene in ROTS decided he wanted to keep her alive and took the scene out. Just because the scene was shot doesn't mean it was ever canon since it never made it to the final cut.
> 
> Better example is Eeth Koth who recently came back to life in the Clone Wars when other books had said he died during the Geonosis battle.



She also got stabbed by Anakin and Grevious, although those were edited out of the final cut.  Really, it's just more fun to think of her as having been killed numerous times.  Kind of like Charlie from Street Fighter.


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Was Coruscant taken from the EU?  It wasn't in the original films.



They showed a little bit of it at the end of Return of the Jedi, showing the toppling of Palpatine's statue there. Though that might have been added in after X-Wing Novels came out..


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## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

Coruscant was from EU, specifically again from Heir to the Empire trilogy by Mr. Zahn. Then it was added into the Special Edition ending of Return of the Jedi renamed the Imperial Center under the Empire for the films.

So yeah another instance of EU and the movies being together.


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## Banhammer (Jan 7, 2010)

Zetta said:


> That's stupid Wesley.
> 
> This is a debate forum. Plugging your ears and going LALALALALA is not debate. In order to prove our argument, we have to reply to every post INCLUDING your bad ones.



When did you reach 300k?  You're not allowed to have higer rep than me. Curse all my negings



Also, is the star destroyer the traingle shaped ship?


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 7, 2010)

> You just made a post that explained that George Lucas has established two universes



Which does'nt change the fact he occassionally draws from it, considers it a level of canon and states he does everything to ensure consistency as much as possible, see Kazeyama's post and the quotes again.


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## Crimson King (Jan 7, 2010)

What, Wesley, too scared to reply to my post? Or are you conceding?


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## KazeYama (Jan 7, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Also, is the star destroyer the traingle shaped ship?



I'll rep you for this, and how you misspelled triangle.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 7, 2010)

KazeYama said:


> She has only died once which is in the force unleashed. Her death was never retconned or anything either. George Lucas shot her death scene in ROTS decided he wanted to keep her alive and took the scene out. Just because the scene was shot doesn't mean it was ever canon since it never made it to the final cut.
> 
> Better example is Eeth Koth who recently came back to life in the Clone Wars when other books had said he died during the Geonosis battle.
> 
> ...




Im sure somewhere they stated that the guy who darth sidious killed wasnt Eeth koth? Teh dude was called Agen Kolar or sumthing.


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## Fang (Jan 7, 2010)

No, the Jedi Masters accompaying Windu were Fitso (bad-ass green alien man with the rasta style head tentacles from Episode II/Clone Wars), Kolar and Tinn.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> He's also stated that as far as the films are concerned, nothing in the EU matters.


Lucas has actually helped produce and make some EU idiot. Remember Force Unleashed? Clone Wars? Guess who helped with it? Lucas. Lucas approves most of EU unless it is inconsistent or he wishes to change it for something else in which case he does and it is removed from canon.



Wesley said:


> See, according to some people, the shields don't actually wear down.  No hit points. * They offer protection until there is a power loss or the shields are penetrated with coordinated fire.That the shields have to be overwhelmed as opposed to worn down.
> We've never said that they have infinite HP. Shields wear down after being stressed enough. You see the bolded part? That's what we've been saying. You wear something down by overpowering it over time. Case&Point=turbolasers. You keep pounding shields with them until the generator cant take it anymore and it powers down. That means 0 HP. Its not even that hard a concept to understand.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Zetta (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley has conceeded.


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 7, 2010)

Zetta said:


> Wesley has conceeded.



Possibly...maybe.


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## Lord Stark (Jan 7, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Or being wtfpwned by a couple hundred proton torpedoes, which begs the question of why you need ships the size of the Executor in the first place if significantly smaller vessels pose a substational threat to it.



Because during the clone wars there were Mandator-class Star Dreadnoughts that could take on 1,000 Recuscant-class light destroyers.  They decided on making an even bigger ship that could solo rebel fleets.  This rebel fleet was like fucking huge though.  So its only natural that its shields would buckle.


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## paulatreides0 (Jan 7, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Possibly...maybe.




keep your watch men.....ready....steady..............ready..................


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## Lucaniel (Jan 7, 2010)

Sylar said:


> This is just sad.



Da truth gets negged


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