# Former Crimson King vs 100% Arc



## Coyote A (Aug 10, 2013)

The former Crimson King (from Samurai deeper kyo) vs 100% Arcueid brunestud (from Tsukihime).

Distance: 10m
Bloodlust on
Speed unequal

who wins?


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

... Arc fuckstomps this pleb


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## Crimson King (Aug 10, 2013)

Speed not equal?

FCK fucks her face in


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## shade0180 (Aug 10, 2013)

Speed equal Arc rapes 

Speed unequal FCK can win.


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## Red Angel (Aug 10, 2013)

What's Arc's strength and durability again? Wiki says superhuman, although that's likely outdated so, yeah


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## Coyote A (Aug 10, 2013)

Speed is unequal.

Is there a way FCK can permanently put her down?


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## shade0180 (Aug 10, 2013)

Mostly Servant level on her weaker form (Probably around megaton or lower DC/Dura mach 15 speed/reaction).  stronger in 100% form .. not sure if there is any fixed number.

Couldn't FCK just absolute Zero her or use medusa eye to stone her?  Also BFR could work not that I'm an expert on her.


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## Coyote A (Aug 10, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Couldn't FCK just absolute Zero her or use medusa eye to stone her?  Also BFR could work not that I'm an expert on her.


Does he have the Medusa eye? I think he has only the learn-able techniques of the Mibu


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

Skarbrand said:


> What's Arc's strength and durability again? Wiki says superhuman, although that's likely outdated so, yeah



Durability should be on the petaton range in her full form if this calc is accepted:  Though not sure how much relevant durability is against FCK's hax.


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## Crimson King (Aug 10, 2013)

FCk uses Shin and mindfucks her


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## Coyote A (Aug 10, 2013)

Yeah I too see FCK winning this without much difficulty. The speed difference is so great that she gets absolutely no chance of using any attack.



MAPSK said:


> ... Arc fuckstomps this pleb


Wank harder


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## Tir (Aug 10, 2013)

> Durability should be on the petaton range in her full form



Why? I read the calc and as far as I know (which is not much), she is not a TYPE.


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## Boomy (Aug 10, 2013)

This's Arc at her strongest meaning she's Archetype aka it can be scaled to her.

Anyway, I decided to not argue about Nasu and not gonna change that.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

Tir said:


> Why? I read the calc and as far as I know (which is not much), she is not a TYPE.



Archetype Earth is referred to by Riesbyfe as an Ultimate One (which = Type) in Current Code. Further, Types are the avatars of their planets as well as the strongest lifeform, and in Actress Again she is stated to be both.
But even with that aside, Nasu stated in an interview a year after Tsukihime was released that 100% Arc is on the same level as Type Moon. And Roa said the same thing in Kagetsu Tohya.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth had something against scaling Types like that IIRC 


and still not sure how it refers to Type durability when the energy came from that core exploding when the Type _died_

other Types are so different they wouldn't even have this particular core in them


for Ado who survived it - do we know how far he was from the core at the moment of the actual explosion ?


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2013)

Coyote A said:


> Yeah I too see FCK winning this without much difficulty. The speed difference is so great that she gets absolutely no chance of using any attack.


Did the FCK get a massive speed upgrade when I wasn't looking?

A 100% Arc is something like Mach 175, scaling from Types. Given standard distance, I'm not seeing how he's blitzing her here.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> zenieth had something against scaling Types like that IIRC



Well, but in this case here it's more like Types being scaled off an Ether Liner rather than Types being scaled off other Types. 



> and still not sure how it refers to Type durability when the energy came from that core exploding when the Type _died_
> 
> other Types are so different they wouldn't even have this particular core in them



I think this applies to Types because Types are >>>>> Ether Liners in power. It wouldn't make sense for Ether Liners to have higher durability than Types.



> for Ado who survived it - do we know how far he was from the core at the moment of the actual explosion ?



He couldn't have been too far away since he was the one who slashed Jupiter's core in two. Though there is no mention on the time Jupiter's core took to explode.


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## Tir (Aug 10, 2013)

Boom~of~Doom said:


> This's Arc at her strongest meaning she's Archetype aka it can be scaled to her.
> 
> Anyway, I decided to not argue about Nasu and not gonna change that.





theleechqueen said:


> Archetype Earth is referred to by Riesbyfe as an Ultimate One (which = Type) in Current Code. Further, Types are the avatars of their planets as well as the strongest lifeform, and in Actress Again she is stated to be both.
> But even with that aside, Nasu stated in an interview a year after Tsukihime was released that 100% Arc is on the same level as Type Moon. And Roa said the same thing in Kagetsu Tohya.



Okay, thanks. 



theleechqueen said:


> I think this applies to Types because Types are >>>>> Ether Liners in power. It wouldn't make sense for Ether Liners to have higher durability than Types.



DC and durability are two different things or so Willy said. 



theleechqueen said:


> He couldn't have been too far away since he was the one who slashed Jupiter's core in two. Though there is no mention on the time Jupiter's core took to explode.



Ado has planetary range, wasn't it? I recall that his sword can become as big as he needs it to be. He might be slaying J-Type from far away.


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

Tir said:


> Okay, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well 100% arc already had zettaton dc with her moondrop and petaton casual 
And Ado's sword grows to the size of the target. So yeah, it might be very far away. 

But anyway, in this match, FCK wins in both scenarios. Sekireigan makes speed equal kind of pointless and he has too much hax for arc to deal with.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

Tir said:


> DC and durability are two different things or so Willy said.
> 
> 
> 
> Ado has planetary range, wasn't it? I recall that his sword can become as big as he needs it to be. He might be slaying J-Type from far away.



Yes, but Types should be above Ether Liners in every stat (maybe Slash Emperor being the exception in terms of DC). 
Each Type is stated to have the power to singlehandedly end all the remaining lives on the planet, that statement makes little sense if we assume Types are less durable than Ether Liners because incapacitation via physical destruction applies to most of them. Continent level DC isn't uncommon in Notes either, the youngest of the Six Sister was killed by an Ether Liner, and at that moment she tore apart a continent with her death cry. It was also stated the remaining Six Sisters (who should be as strong as the one that was killed) were only able to defeat Type Pluto via mutual destruction.

Types were strong enough to push mankind against the ropes even when the Ether Liners and the A-Rays joined forces. This is why Types being less durable than Ether Liners makes no sense.



> Ado has planetary range, wasn't it? I recall that his sword can become as big as he needs it to be. He might be slaying J-Type from far away.



Going by feats and statements his range should be several kilometers, but not planetary. He chips away land so that his sword becomes as big as his target. But I'm not sure if he used Jupiter's whole gas as the target or just his core.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> Going by feats and statements his range should be several kilometers, but not planetary.


If Slash Emperor is several kilometers long, and Ado was at least that far away from the explosion, wouldn't that reduce the required durability to survive it?

Or is my thinking wrong here?


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

Regicide said:


> If Slash Emperor is several kilometers long, and Ado was at least that far away from the explosion, wouldn't that reduce the required durability to survive it?
> 
> Or is my thinking wrong here?



I believe that you're correct. 

Square-cube law and all that fun stuff.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 10, 2013)

> If Slash Emperor is several kilometers long, and Ado was at least that far away from the explosion, wouldn't that reduce the required durability to survive it?
> 
> Or is my thinking wrong here?


yes and by a lot


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> yes and by a lot


By how much are we talking here?


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

Well it also depends on how large Jupiter's body was and if Ado targeted the whole body and not just his core. Also, I was wrong, I checked the Notes scans again and the minimum extent of Ado's range should be 3000 meters+ (size of Type Saturn's body), I remember wrong and thought it was 3000 kilometers.


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## Louis Cyphre (Aug 10, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> *Couldn't FCK just absolute Zero *her or use medusa eye to stone her?  Also BFR could work not that I'm an expert on her.


No
AZ is Akira's special technique
He didn't learn it from Mibu


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 10, 2013)

Regicide said:


> By how much are we talking here?






> Distance: 2km Area of explosion: 5e7m^2 Human multiplication factor of energy: 1.1e-8
> 
> Distance: 5km Area of explosion: 3.1e8m^2 Human multiplication factor of energy: 1.8e-9



if it's 3 km then hundreds of millions (1e8) to a ~billion (1e9) times less


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> if it's 3 km then hundreds of millions (1e8) to a ~billion (1e9) times less



So it's ~double digit megatons then. 
lel.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2013)

So much for continent-level Liners then, assuming that's legit.


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

At least it correlates to their supposed nuke level power.


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## Crimson King (Aug 10, 2013)

Regicide said:


> Did the FCK get a massive speed upgrade when I wasn't looking?
> 
> A 100% Arc is something like Mach 175, scaling from Types. Given standard distance, I'm not seeing how he's blitzing her here.



FCK was casually speedblitzing mach 260+ people 

Also, why are we talking about durability when FCK has techniques that laugh at durability?


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

Crimson King said:


> Also, why are we talking about durability when FCK has techniques that laugh at durability?



Because Nasu derail.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2013)

Crimson King said:


> FCK was casually speedblitzing mach 260+ people


Blitz tropes.


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

Actually, due to Regression Composition, Arc should have the equivalent of A-Rank Magic Resistance, meaning that depending on the level of hax she might be able to resist or negate it (since it was generally agreed that Servants with high enough MR could resist stuff like Kiritsugu's timefuck). Not to mention that any kind of non-physical death won't kill Arc, so FCK can really only soul or mindfuck her, and I doubt he has anything matching the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception or some of the more advanced illusory magecraft in the Nasuverse. Plus, didn't willy do a calc that put TYPEs at triple to quadruple digit mach?


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Actually, due to Regression Composition, Arc should have the equivalent of A-Rank Magic Resistance, meaning that depending on the level of hax she might be able to resist or negate it (since it was generally agreed that Servants with high enough MR could resist stuff like Kiritsugu's timefuck). Not to mention that any kind of non-physical death won't kill Arc, so FCK can really only soul or mindfuck her, and I doubt he has anything matching the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception or some of the more advanced illusory magecraft in the Nasuverse. Plus, didn't willy do a calc that put TYPEs at triple to quadruple digit mach?



I'm pretty sure Regression to AotG doesn't work like that. 

And FCK has soulfuck so it's pretty moot. 

And that willy himself thought that calc was sketchy. It was based upon constant acceleration, so it really isn't "speed".


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

you mean that calc for type *jupiter *


who is from jupiter


and came from _jupiter_


and is not from earth?


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> you mean that calc for type *jupiter *
> 
> 
> who is from jupiter
> ...



Yeah sure, if you wanna consider TJ to be mach 800 even though it takes a couple minutes to get to that speed.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 10, 2013)

escape velocity was Mach 175, not mach 800

though it doesn't work that way really



and I think zenieth meant that Jupiter stuff doesn't concern Arc .. who is not from Jupiter


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

No my point isn't about the speed of Type Jupiter.

It's scaling Archtype Earth to a calc about Type Jupiter, with no correlation


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> I'm pretty sure Regression to AotG doesn't work like that.
> 
> And FCK has soulfuck so it's pretty moot.
> 
> And that willy himself thought that calc was sketchy. It was based upon constant acceleration, so it really isn't "speed".



Really? Because I'm pretty sure dragons and Lugh Beowulf are considered to have that kind of resistance in OBD matches and Arc is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.

Also, how is FCK's soulfuck > MEoDP again? Because Arc came back from that shit just fine. Archetype Earth wasn't even affected by the MEoDP.


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

Well it's not like the resulting durability is very high now anyway.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

Lugh's Regression is actually better than Arc's.... so....


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> Well it's not like the resulting durability is very high now anyway.


So I guess this makes Ado Edem a glass cannon?


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> Lugh's Regression is actually better than Arc's.... so....



By one rank (A compared to B). And that's quality, not quantity. Regression quantity is what determines power, and Arc has an A++ in that, compared to Lugh's C. So she's definitely either comparable or superior to him in her Regression.


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

Regicide said:


> So I guess this makes Ado Edem a glass cannon?



A cannon whose fire power depends on how big the opponent is. 

Kind of a shitty cannon if you think about it.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> Lugh's Regression is actually better than Arc's.... so....



Not really, there is the composition to consider. They are different types.


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> Not really, there is the composition to consider. They are different types.



I said that, didn't I? It's split into quality and quantity, and Arc is comparable or superior in both.

EDIT: derp, I thought you were talking to me


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> By one rank (A compared to B). And that's quality, not quantity. Regression quantity is what determines power, and Arc has an A++ in that, compared to Lugh's C. So she's definitely either comparable or superior to him in her Regression.



Quantity doesn't determine power... It determines how much A phantasmal can affect.

Lugh can't affect nearly as large an area as Arc can.


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

Tsukihime said:
			
		

> "I'm asking about the method you used. I'm resistant against stuff like Runes and Kabbalah, so those don't work on me. *The only things I'm not resistant against is magic I've yet to experience,* which is probably limited to the ancient Shinto in this country and the treasures in South America."





So arcueid doesn't have innate magic resist, she can develop magic resist.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> Not really, there is the composition to consider. They are different types.




In terms of what she can affect, she's much better but in terms of her quality, she's  a rank lower. And this is Nasuverse, a difference in rank means every thing.


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

Still, she resisted the MEoDP, which is pretty much mind, soul, and everything else-fuck all in one, so unless the FCK's soulfuck is superior to that, I don't see it killing Arc. And again, her regen covers any kind of physical hax, considering it's not really regeneration but rewinding time to a point before the body was damaged.

EDIT: Thanks, Kazu


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> *
> The higher the quantity*,
> 
> *the greater the degree of influence over the surrounding environment.*
> ...






I

FUCKING


WONDER


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Still, she resisted the MEoDP, which is pretty much mind, soul, and everything else-fuck all in one, so unless the FCK's soulfuck is superior to that, I don't see it killing Arc. And again, her regen covers any kind of physical hax, considering it's not really regeneration but rewinding time to a point before the body was damaged.
> 
> EDIT: Thanks, Kazu



FCK still has BFR to consider. 

And really, being able to build up her body from scratch is kinda useless considering it could possibly take several hours in order to do it. 

So, as I said before, FCK wins in both scenarios.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2013)

Actually, does Regression to the Age of Gods even work like that? Also,


> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 25 (9 members and 16 guests) Regicide, GiveRobert20dollars, theleechqueen, Kazuakisama, Naisutime, zenieth, OtherGalaxy, Agent of Chaos, Qinglong


Seems legit.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

cause you know, the closer you are to the AoG the higher your mystery, the harder it is to counter/affect


But no, quality's just there for fanciness.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

"*she resisted the MEoDP, which is pretty much mind, soul, and everything else-fuck all in one*"


...what is this shit?


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> I
> 
> FUCKING
> 
> ...



It says right there that quantity determines power. 
And ofc with more power, you can affect a wider area.


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## JustThisOne (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> "*she resisted the MEoDP, which is pretty much mind, soul, and everything else-fuck all in one*"
> 
> 
> ...what is this shit?



He is probably talking about how shiki killed Roa and because of that he could not reincarnate 

something around those lines


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> "*she resisted the MEoDP, which is pretty much mind, soul, and everything else-fuck all in one*"
> 
> 
> ...what is this shit?



The MEoDP kills the mind, body, soul, and concept to ensure absolute death. That's kind of the point. Arc had to rebuild herself on a conceptual level to recover from the damage. It's been specifically mentioned numerous times that the MEoDP can kill the soul.


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> The MEoDP kills the mind, body, soul, and concept to ensure absolute death. That's kind of the point. Arc had to rebuild herself on a conceptual level to recover from the damage. It's been specifically mentioned numerous times that the MEoDP can kill the soul.



Lines=/=dots


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> In terms of what she can affect, she's much better but in terms of her quality, she's  a rank lower. And this is Nasuverse, a difference in rank means every thing.



Except you're comparing two different things. It says that in magecraft terms composition is the same as the type of power (i.e Runes, Black Magic, etc). Having lower quality in an specific type doesn't mean it's weaker than another type that has higher quality. It's like saying B rank Divine Magic is weaker than A rank Runes, that's not necessarily the case.



MAPSK said:


> Still, she resisted the MEoDP, which is pretty much mind, soul, and everything else-fuck all in one, so unless the FCK's soulfuck is superior to that, I don't see it killing Arc. And again, her regen covers any kind of physical hax, considering it's not really regeneration but rewinding time to a point before the body was damaged.



Actually, wouldn't resisting the Moon Cell trying to erase her from existence count as a soul resistance feat too? Since people that enter the Seraph need to digitalize their souls.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> It says right there that quantity determines power.
> And ofc with more power, you can affect a wider area.




Cept what matters is the mystery level in regards to how unlikely an attack will be able to affect/how unlikely a defense will be.

So... yeah


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> Cept what matters is the mystery level in regards to how unlikely an attack will be able to affect/how unlikely a defense will be.
> 
> So... yeah



I admit that you're right and all...

But my whole issue is how it translates to the OBD.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> Except you're comparing two different things. It says that in magecraft terms composition is the same as the type of power (i.e Runes, Black Magic, etc). Having lower quality in an specific type doesn't mean it's weaker than another type that has higher quality. It's like saying B rank Divine Magic is weaker than A rank Runes, that's not necessarily the case.



But it matters in regards to resistance, which is what MAPSK is primarily arguing. Since resistance is much broader than offense.

Where A rank Phys =/= A rank Magic =/= A rank Ritual, but they'll all have the same effect in terms of conceptual defenses.
 And likely apply in the same way to defending.



> Actually, wouldn't resisting the Moon Cell trying to erase her from existence count as a soul resistance feat too? Since people that enter the Seraph need to digitalize their souls.



I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Nasu totally noted that nothing from Extra could be applied to Tsukihime Arc.

100% Fanservice yo.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> I admit that you're right and all...
> 
> But my whole issue is how it translates to the OBD.



Can't have it different ways when it doesn't benefit.

Cause people be quick to bring up ranks as reason to lolnope stuff.


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Nasu totally noted that nothing from Extra could be applied to Tsukihime Arc.
> 
> 100% Fanservice yo.



I'd like to see this, because I'm getting pretty goddamned sick of people going "lol EXTRA isn't canon"


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

Extra is canon, it's just that certain things from Extra don't apply to things from other variants.


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> Can't have it different ways when it doesn't benefit.
> 
> Cause people be quick to bring up ranks as reason to lolnope stuff.



*shrug* ok then.


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

I dunno, considering the difference is just one rank, I think Arc should still be comparable to Lugh. She's definitely superior to most Servants. 

Though back on topic, BFR is an issue. So I guess FCK does win, even if he can't _kill_ Arc. Unless speed is equal, in which case moondrop


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> I dunno, considering the difference is just one rank, I think Arc should still be comparable to Lugh. She's definitely superior to most Servants.
> 
> Though back on topic, BFR is an issue. So I guess FCK does win, even if he can't _kill_ Arc. Unless speed is equal, in which case moondrop



In speed equal, he starts fucking with time.
And Arc still loses.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> But it matters in regards to resistance, which is what MAPSK is primarily arguing. Since resistance is much broader than offense.



Resistance is still on par with that of old gods though. Which would make her resistance to the hax of most hero's Noble Phantasms. See how Flat Snark's ice meteor no-sold Aoko's 1000 ?C beam just because the former was made out of the abdominal fat of a god? Not sure how this would translate to OBD terms though.



> Where A rank Phys =/= A rank Magic =/= A rank Ritual, but they'll all have the same effect in terms of conceptual defenses.
> And likely apply in the same way to defending.



Please re-read the Q&A again, it says the composition is the equivalent to magecraftt type (like Runes and Kabalah). There is no question Arc is of a higher type even if quality within that type is lower.



> I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Nasu totally noted that nothing from Extra could be applied to Tsukihime Arc.
> 
> 100% Fanservice yo.



What did he say exactly? It was obvious it was fanservice though.


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

Kazuakisama said:


> In speed equal, he starts fucking with time.
> And Arc still loses.



Except it was agreed in other threads that Servants like Arthuria with sufficient MR could resist timefuck/stop, so he still gets to see her moons


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

@resistence stuff

1. It was 3000 not 1000
2. We have no clue where her resistance puts her. NPs aren't the same as magecraft
3. What flat Snark was made of had no bearing on the ice resisting the beam, nor did its power. It was plainly a mater of AoG magic vs. Not. And even then, there's a threshold where "hahaha fuck your concept, me smash"


@what Nasu said:
Um, exactly that Extra Arc couldn't apply to Tsukihime Arc

Mooncell exists nowhere except Extra

All Mooncell Servants are actually in the Grail

And Arc's appearance in Extra is purely fanservice for the sake of fanservice.


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## Kazu (Aug 10, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Except it was agreed in other threads that Servants like Arthuria with sufficient MR could resist timefuck/stop, so he still gets to see her moons



Correct me if i'm wrong, but sekireigan accelerates the user, and doesn't slow directly affect the opponent.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

That timestop resistance is bullshit.

Cause What Medea does isn't time manipulation it's pseudo space manipulation. Basically faking the second.

Servants aren't going to inherently stop out and out true Magic when not even Gaia can.


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

I'm just saying it was said before guys


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

zenieth said:


> @resistence stuff
> 
> 1. It was 3000 not 1000
> 2. We have no clue where her resistance puts her. NPs aren't the same as magecraft
> 3. What flat Snark was made of had no bearing on the ice resisting the beam, nor did its power. It was plainly a mater of AoG magic vs. Not. And even then, there's a threshold where "hahaha fuck your concept, me smash"



It's the whole old mysteries are superior thing. And primordial gods are older than NPs sans things like Ea. The threshold is when sheer raw power is used to overcome the concept, rather than trying to keep challenging a mystery with another mystery.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

why're you bringing up Primordials?

There's  A LOT of other gods after them.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

Because Archetype's regresion is of the same type as the primordial gods, see the bolded parts:



> Enuma Elish
> Star of Creation that Separated Heaven and Earth
> The final Noble Phantasm of Gilgamesh which shows the dawn of creation – the beginning of everything. A cut through the fabric of space by Ea the Sword of Separation, a sword crowned with the name of a god in Mesopotamian mythology.
> *The god Ea is considered to be a pseudo-deification* of the power of the planet by which primordial Earth’s surface, covered by magma ocean and gas, was moved, crushed, and stabilized.
> ...





> Q: What do the Quality/Quantity/Composition of Regression to the Age of Gods mean in Beowulf's profile? Do Ploys, Arcueid, and Heroic Spirits have such designations? And what would their number be?
> 
> A: Regression to the Age of Gods represents the extend at which they are capable of reproducing the Mysteries that existed on Earth before True Magic. Consider it to be like that, their own style of Magical Circuits. Quality represents "how distant from what humans are capable of" their pure Mysteries are. Quantity represents power. The higher the quantity, the greater the degree of influence over the surrounding environment. Since Beowulf only has a quantity of C, he can only display his power to an individual, or over a village.
> *
> ...





Kazuakisama said:


> Tl;dr translation by food of beasts lair.
> 
> Enuma Elish
> 
> ...



Pseudo-divine power seems to be related to the origin of the Earth.


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## Crimson King (Aug 10, 2013)

Yes, Sekireigan accelerates the user. By a huge fucking amount.

Also, moondrop, meet subspace. Arc has just dropped a moon on herself.

And what? Arc never resisted MEoDP


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## MAPSK (Aug 10, 2013)

Crimson King said:


> Yes, Sekireigan accelerates the user. By a huge fucking amount.
> 
> Also, moondrop, meet subspace. Arc has just dropped a moon on herself.
> 
> And what? Arc never resisted MEoDP



She did. Base Arc (30%) managed to rebuild herself (as in not die) after being cut up by Shiki, and Archetype Earth (100%) was pretty much no selling the MEoDP. Shiki couldn't see her concept of death.


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## Crimson King (Aug 10, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> She did. Base Arc (30%) managed to rebuild herself (as in not die) after being cut up by Shiki, and Archetype Earth (100%) was pretty much no selling the MEoDP. Shiki couldn't see her concept of death.



That's not resisting it. That's rebuilding her body from scratch. Shiki never stabbed a dot.

Shiki couldn't see Archetype Earth's lines because Arc in that form is old, older than the Buddha remains Araya Souren has.


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## Qinglong (Aug 10, 2013)

Do you even tsukihime? 

She didn't resist shit. She even asks him later how did he manage to do that to her.


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## Qinglong (Aug 10, 2013)

> "What's with you? I can't tell when you're being sincere and when you're not. Let me repeat it again: you killed me. You probably can't imagine it, but it takes a lot of energy to regenerate once you've been killed.
> Well, actually, it wouldn't be a big deal if you had just killed me, but the way you killed me was something I've never seen before. I couldn't heal the wounds, so I had no choice but to remake my body parts. That's why it took so much energy to revive---"



So yeah. **


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

Crimson King said:


> Shiki couldn't see Archetype Earth's lines because Arc in that form is old, older than the Buddha remains Araya Souren has.



Actually, Ryougi said it's not that she couldn't see her death, but rather, she had no death for her to see. And the question about why she could not see lines on the Buddah's arm was clarified in a recent Q&A.



> Q: Since Saber and Gilgamesh have physical bodies in Fate/Stay Night, can Shiki see lines on them?
> 
> A: Let alone flesh and blood, Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is even effective against Spiritual Bodies. As long as Ryougi Shiki can perceive the opponent as "alive" (not life, but live), she will see the lines of death. For instance, even though the apparitions in Overlooking View were dead, but they were "alive" the instant they interacted with things in this world.
> 
> In addition, Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception losing to the Sarira embedded in Araya's arm was due to the Sarira being an item of the awakened one who "achieved Nirvana while he was still alive". If Shiki were to attempt to kill it via lines of death, she would not be able to do so unless she could dicern "lines of death" several levels higher than regular death. Despite all this, the tragedy of bones is that they will turn to dust if burned. Rather than learning Death Hexes and beat it that way, it is easier to just level up and crush it physically.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> Because Archetype's regresion is of the same type as the primordial gods, see the bolded parts:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Um... most gods are noted to be pseudo deified... The only ones that aren't are things created purely by humanity, and were like humans before and junk.

you know being natural phenomena that got worshipped.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

No actually, the term 擬神化 has only come up when referring to Ea and Arc's regression. There is a reason it's pseudo-deified, because they are not being truly deified like the new gods. And of course, how can they be when Ea existed before organic life was made possible?


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

... most of the gods existed before Humanity (Which is really what matters in classifying them)

They're natural phenomena.

This is literally something brought up in Gil's back story.


And Arc didn't exist until long after the Age of Gods... so saying she existed before them... Hell even CM didn't come to the planet before Humanity existed.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

I think what you're trying to say is Arc's Regression comes from the time of Primordials and not that she's actually as old as them. Since no god is automatically a god without humanity recognition.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2013)

What's the point of this discussion again?

I don't recall Regression to the Age of Gods functioning like Magic Resistance, although I could be wrong.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

> Many gods began the building of nations after primordial Earth became habitable by life, but Ea was one involved in the building of the planet before that.



? It says Ea existed even before that, you know? How would he be involved in the building of the planet if he was natural phenomena with no will? since you know, being worshipped by humans is what gives them a will.



zenieth said:


> I think what you're trying to say is Arc's Regression comes from the time of Primordials and not that she's actually as old as them. Since no god is automatically a god without humanity recognition.



Yes, that's what I'm saying. I never said Arc existed before. But the entire point of Age of Gods Regression is being able to wield power older than yourself.


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## zenieth (Aug 10, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> ? It says Ea existed even before that, you know? How would he be involved in the building of the planet if he was natural phenomena with no will? since you know, being worshipped by humans is what gives them a will.



By being the world before it cooled?

Lava existed before humans and has no will but played a very big role in forming the planet.

But you wouldn't call Vulcanus a Pseudo Deity.


Gods aren't about being will carrier until humanity recognizes them.... it kinda totally goes against the narrative give to them.


Things that were a part of the world that people began worshipping.

Else Ea would still exist, but he got phased out just like the rest of them.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 10, 2013)

Regicide said:


> What's the point of this discussion again?
> 
> I don't recall Regression to the Age of Gods functioning like Magic Resistance, although I could be wrong.



It should give an amount of MR thanks to the amount of mystery accumulated. Remember the scene where Rider's pegasus appeared? It was stated it's magic resistance exceeded even Saber's because it came from the Age of Gods. Same reason Beowulf has so much MR he cannot be hurt by non AoG magecraft.

^ Ok, that makes sense.


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## Crimson King (Aug 11, 2013)

Man, if FCK had servant perks, he'd have EX magic resist. Several thousand year old and fucking powerful.


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## OS (Aug 11, 2013)

Everytime you mention FCK you gotta prepare for his dick holder CK^


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 11, 2013)

what's this bottom feeder doing back here

crawl back to the channel 12 section


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## Tir (Aug 11, 2013)

Remind me, how did Kyo beat him again?


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## Boomy (Aug 11, 2013)

>Kyo being a True Mibu
>PIS/CIS aka FCK not using practically any hax


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## Tir (Aug 11, 2013)

Mahesvara said:


> >Kyo being a True Mibu
> >PIS/CIS aka FCK not using practically any hax



Well, since True Mibu>battle dolls, I think FCK knew that it's useless to use any hax against Kyo.

Edit: If she drops Moon, wouldn't that spell end for FCK? He's not durable enough to tank Moon


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## Boomy (Aug 11, 2013)

Except iirc he had that knowledge about Kyo only at the end and he was not using his hax from the start.

^Pretty sure FCK has intangibility.


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## Kazu (Aug 11, 2013)

Is that you Boom? When did you change your name?


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## Boomy (Aug 11, 2013)

Yesterday


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## Crimson King (Aug 11, 2013)

Tir said:


> Well, since True Mibu>battle dolls, I think FCK knew that it's useless to use any hax against Kyo.
> 
> Edit: If she drops Moon, wouldn't that spell end for FCK? He's not durable enough to tank Moon



FCK uses Saisei's ability and makes Arc take the damage instead.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 11, 2013)

Can that dimensional gate redirect one zettaton worth of damage? It should have some limit. What if it were large planet or star busting level damage?


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## Regicide (Aug 11, 2013)

Original Sin talking down to others?


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## egressmadara (Aug 11, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> Can that dimensional gate redirect one zettaton worth of damage? It should have some limit. What if it were large planet or star busting level damage?


Depends on the attack. If it's something like an explosion, then the good King would die since the blast would also "touch" his target, and come out of the FCK himself. And also blow up the planet.


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## OS (Aug 11, 2013)

Regicide said:


> Original Sin talking down to others?


>People i don't know and don't know me trying to joke about me.

Look at this ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 11, 2013)

you tell him OS


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## OS (Aug 11, 2013)

People think they know me


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## Regicide (Aug 11, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> >People i don't know and don't know me trying to joke about me.
> 
> Look at this ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


Do the words, Raildex General, ring a bell?


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## OS (Aug 11, 2013)

I can only think of 4chan. Even then I haven't put my name there in a year or so.


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## Regicide (Aug 11, 2013)

You'll be pleased to know that stories of your shitposting have been passed down the generals for generations.


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## OS (Aug 11, 2013)

Good. That means whenever I put my name I expect a good response.


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## Regicide (Aug 11, 2013)

That'll make for a good laugh.


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## Crimson King (Aug 11, 2013)

theleechqueen said:


> Can that dimensional gate redirect one zettaton worth of damage? It should have some limit. What if it were large planet or star busting level damage?



If the aoe is large enough to hit both of them, the subspace would be useless.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 12, 2013)

Original Sin said:


> People think they know me


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## MAPSK (Aug 12, 2013)

Crimson King said:


> If the aoe is large enough to hit both of them, the subspace would be useless.



Dude, it's a moon. What do you think the AoE is?


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## Mambo (Aug 12, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Dude, it's a moon. What do you think the AoE is?



uhhh... 4000 kilometers? 

Although maybe the moon that is dropped is  and not THAT MOON we see every night


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## Crimson King (Aug 13, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Dude, it's a moon. What do you think the AoE is?



He's fast enough to outrun the aoe.


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## Mambo (Aug 14, 2013)

Crimson King said:


> He's fast enough to outrun the aoe.



SDK speed is burst speed not movement speed.

Why the characters need days traveling in JAPAN (note that only JAPAN, not even the whole earth) if their movement up to their battle speed anyway?


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## Crimson King (Aug 15, 2013)

Tokito disagrees with you


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## Nevermind (Aug 15, 2013)

It's not just 4,000 kilometers.

A zettaton release of energy would totally obliterate all life on the planet. Granted surface area would come into this but outrunning it in time is an unlikely possibility.


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## Crimson King (Aug 15, 2013)

Nevermind said:


> It's not just 4,000 kilometers.
> 
> A zettaton release of energy would totally obliterate all life on the planet. Granted surface area would come into this but outrunning it in time is an unlikely possibility.



All he has to do is move into the candle room


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## Kazu (Aug 15, 2013)

Kind of off topic, but could you use terminal velocity to calculate the moon drop


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